# 3 weeks and puppy is STILL crying in her crate



## Rorschach (May 4, 2016)

I have a real head scratcher on my hands. This is our 2nd puppy and she is almost the opposite of our older dog in every way. She doesn't seem to be very food motivated, her focus is on everything but me, house training is just not sinking in, and most frustrating of all is she continues to scream her head off in her crate.

Not once in the past three weeks have either my husband or I let her out of her crate when she cries. It's gotten more manageable where she'll cry for maybe a few minutes after she gets locked in before giving up with a whine of resignation but I feel like I'm trapped in whatever room the crate is in because if I get up to go to the bathroom or grab something from the kitchen or bedroom the crying will start all over again and last night after I settled her in the crate for the night and left to take a pill real fast she started SHRIEKING. 

The last week or so I've started staying out of sight until she quiets back down but this went on for a full hour, I was starting to get cozy on the couch for the night since she was in my bedroom. This was like a full out panic attack, I could hear her frantically banging against the crate in addition to the cries. Finally after almost an hour I realized she gave up and I was able to go back to my own bed but it was almost 1am at that point and she asked an hour after that to go out which was a quick trip out for business with no talking and back in the box right after and than sleep until 6am.

I've done or tried almost everything that's been suggested. I have a sheet over her crate to create that den like atmosphere, at night I warm up a neck roll that I put under her bed, she has special crate only treats like a kong, pig ear or marrow bone that are almost untouched because as soon as she realizes she's locked in she'll drop it for a freak out sessions before laying down. I've started dropping treats in her crate if I walk by and she's being quiet and I keep her on a fairly regular schedule with breaks for potty every two hours or so during the day while I'm working from home plus 10-15mins afterwards for playtime and after 5pm she'll get a walk weather permitting, or some formal training sessions, or puppy socialization class, or any other form of exercise and play we can come up with to tire her out.

I'm starting to think that maybe I should relocate either myself or her crate to another room every so often to really get the message to sink in that the screaming will not work, I just thought after 3 weeks of not giving in we'd be past this by now. *sigh*


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Sometimes puppies can be very stubborn. I know it is extremely frustrating, but it sounds like you are doing the right things. Three weeks isn't really that long. Feed her meals in there with the door open, put treats in there with the door open, play crate games, and ignore when she cries. She'll get it. And if she cries when you leave the room and she's in the crate, don't go back into the room until she is quiet, either.


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## Rorschach (May 4, 2016)

I've seen her voluntarily go in there when the door is open like to grab something and come back out. I've also tossed treats or a toy in the crate so she'll run in and grab it and come back out and most of the time I can get her to voluntarily walk in on her own with the promise of a treat. I do all meals either in or near the crate but that's been an area of contention as well. She'd much rather play than eat unless I do say a kibble trail on the floor both inside and outside and the crate. I normally wouldn't try and entice a dog to eat but I have two things working against me....one is the older dog is more than happy to gobble down any of her leftovers (and he definetly does not need a regular diet of puppy food) and two is she is a little underweight and ribby due in part to a recently uncovered roundworm infestation that she is being treated for but I want to be sure she's eating as much as she can.

We got her from a foster home and yesterday the foster mom informed me that all the new puppy parents from her litter are having issues with crate training, not sure how much that's playing against me here. :/


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## KayaScout (Nov 13, 2015)

I agree with Lillith, it sounds like you are doing all the right things. Puppies can be very stubborn and I know that first hand. It took our puppy a couple of month before she would stop crying in the crate regularly. Kaya also is not interested in anything I put in the crate be it a chew toy or a Kong. She takes her 2 cookies in the morning when she goes in and that's all. I will not lie to you, it was awful and I found myself with the "new puppy blues" . BUT she did get over it as she grew up and is completely fine being in her crate now (she is just over 1, so still a puppy). It sucks but hang in there! Hopefully you're a coffee person


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

You said: "I feel like I'm trapped in whatever room the crate is in because if I get up to go to the bathroom or grab something from the kitchen or bedroom the crying will start all over again and last night after I settled her in the crate for the night and left to take a pill real fast she started SHRIEKING."

So are you consistently re-entering the room after leaving it and she starts crying? Because that's reinforcement. You should relocate her crate to a room that you don't need to get up and re-enter (not a living room or study, in other words), put her in her crate and leave. Do not reappear until she's quiet. Ever.


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## Rorschach (May 4, 2016)

Hiraeth said:


> You said: "I feel like I'm trapped in whatever room the crate is in because if I get up to go to the bathroom or grab something from the kitchen or bedroom the crying will start all over again and last night after I settled her in the crate for the night and left to take a pill real fast she started SHRIEKING."
> 
> So are you consistently re-entering the room after leaving it and she starts crying? Because that's reinforcement. You should relocate her crate to a room that you don't need to get up and re-enter (not a living room or study, in other words), put her in her crate and leave. Do not reappear until she's quiet. Ever.


No, in the last week especially I've been firm about not re-entering the room until she's quiet. Last night I spent an hour on the couch while she cried it out in my bedroom. I just don't want to deal with the song and dance routine every time I get up so I feel trapped in the room because I work from home and if I get an email, or an instant message, or have a meeting I will have to return at once regardless of the lesson I'm trying to teach her. I'm fine with the idea of putting her in another room altogether, I had just read that it was best to locate the crate in a room where she would've feel isolated so that's what I've started with but this is getting hard now.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Rorschach said:


> I've seen her voluntarily go in there when the door is open like to grab something and come back out. I've also tossed treats or a toy in the crate so she'll run in and grab it and come back out and most of the time I can get her to voluntarily walk in on her own with the promise of a treat. I do all meals either in or near the crate but that's been an area of contention as well. She'd much rather play than eat unless I do say a kibble trail on the floor both inside and outside and the crate. I normally wouldn't try and entice a dog to eat but I have two things working against me....one is the older dog is more than happy to gobble down any of her leftovers (and he definetly does not need a regular diet of puppy food) and two is she is a little underweight and ribby due in part to a recently uncovered roundworm infestation that she is being treated for but I want to be sure she's eating as much as she can.
> 
> We got her from a foster home and yesterday the foster mom informed me that all the new puppy parents from her litter are having issues with crate training, not sure how much that's playing against me here. :/


Keep your older dog separated from the puppy when its mealtime. You could try putting the puppy's food in food dispensing toys so she gets to eat and play at the same time. This doesn't necessarily have to be done in the crate, of course, but you can. Stick with it. Your experience is not abnormal. Puppies are brats, simple as that!


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## Rorschach (May 4, 2016)

Lillith said:


> Keep your older dog separated from the puppy when its mealtime. You could try putting the puppy's food in food dispensing toys so she gets to eat and play at the same time. This doesn't necessarily have to be done in the crate, of course, but you can. Stick with it. Your experience is not abnormal. Puppies are brats, simple as that!


Thanks for the vote of confidence! I just dont remember our first dog being this obstinate over such basic things so it's got me a little frustrated. Guess I've just got a stubborn and strong willed pup to overcome. She's making me look bad at puppy class though.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Rorschach said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence! I just dont remember our first dog being this obstinate over such basic things so it's got me a little frustrated. Guess I've just got a stubborn and strong willed pup to overcome. She's making me look bad at puppy class though.


My dog is 10 months old and he makes me look good or bad at puppy class depending on which side of his bed he woke up on. Puppies are like kids in that not every one is the same to raise as another. I've certainly come across some scenarios when my dog won't do or is afraid of something previous dogs have had no problem with, and I have to stop and remind myself that this dog is an individual, he has his own personality, and I have to treat him as such. Your puppy is still a baby, and if you keep consistent you will have a wonderful dog in 1-2 years.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Before about 1950 (and publications by Dr. Spock) the advice was to let the baby cry and get used to being alone in his crib. Most people now find that barbaric.
I wonder if, 20 years from now, we'll feel the same way about 'let the puppy cry' and get used to the crate.

There are other options . . . say a safe room (laundry, bathroom, garage).


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

sandgrubber said:


> Before about 1950 (and publications by Dr. Spock) the advice was to let the baby cry and get used to being alone in his crib. Most people now find that barbaric.
> I wonder if, 20 years from now, we'll feel the same way about 'let the puppy cry' and get used to the crate.
> 
> There are other options . . . say a safe room (laundry, bathroom, garage).


If I lock my dog out of the bedroom so I can fold laundry without him rolling in it and he cries. Puppies at the farm put in the garage cried. No matter where we confine them, they are going to cry if they can't be near us. Fact is, sometimes they can't be near us. We have to work and do chores. Crying puppies is more like crying toddlers who are angry because mom closed and locked the door to the bathroom so she can pee for 2 minutes and they want to be in there too and watch.

It would be interesting to see a study done on the pros/cons of letting a puppy "cry it out", however. My theory is that it would develop far different results than one done on human babies.


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## Isaac30001 (Mar 18, 2016)

sandgrubber said:


> Before about 1950 (and publications by Dr. Spock) the advice was to let the baby cry and get used to being alone in his crib. Most people now find that barbaric.
> I wonder if, 20 years from now, we'll feel the same way about 'let the puppy cry' and get used to the crate.
> 
> There are other options . . . say a safe room (laundry, bathroom, garage).



I don't really think it'll change. It may seem harsh, but dogs are dogs, not human babies. Coming back and comforting the puppy every time it starts screaming will only make it's anxiety a life-long problem. They won't just grow out of it like a human baby would.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Dogs are all so different. When I got Kris at 11 weeks, she had travelled home in the Van in a crate for five hours. When I got home, I played with her outside, fed and watered her and when bedtime came, I put her in a crate near the bed and went to bed. She cried for a few minutes, then settled down and slept for a couple of hours, then I heard her fuss so I got up and took her outside. She peed and I put her back into the crate and she went right back to sleep. This was our nightly schedule. If she did not fuss, I left her alone. I know some people say to not let them out when they fuss but to me, it was her way of letting me know she had to go out. She never made a fuss unless she had to go and I would take her outside, no play or anything and straight back into the crate. She loves her crate and even when I finally moved it into another room, she never fussed unless she had to go outside. As she has gotten older of course, she sleeps right through the night. She loves her crate and willingly runs into it at night when I say bedtime as she knows she always gets a treat at bedtime or any time I have to leave her in the crate when I go out and can't take her with me.


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## Rorschach (May 4, 2016)

Ok, so since she has been treated for the roundworms and is now on a 2nd treatment for one of the few parasites that is not treated with panacur, her appetite has IMMENSELY improved and she now eats breakfast, lunch and dinner with gusto so meals are back on in the crate thankfully. I decided to try and leave her crate in my bedroom with the lights off and a tv on in the background and so far outside of a few soft whines that seems to have helped her calm down a bit. I'm still going to stick with it and give it a little more time to see if that really does the trick but I'm hoping that maybe she was feeling left out of the action in the busy family room and just needed a quieter, calmer space for crate time that was also surrounded by our scent plus the older dog generally naps in there during the day as well. 

I'm not going to get in the crate debate because crate and kennel manners are an important skill for any dog to learn in case she ever needs to be boarded or is stuck at the vet's office or needs to go to a groomer plus the crying and barking is about anxiety and wanting attention and she needs to know I'm always coming back. Not to mention that the one time I stuck her in the bathroom in an emergency situation she still cried her head off and promptly peed on the floor anyway. At least she never wants to mess the crate despite it being on the larger end in terms of size for her.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Kyllobernese said:


> If she did not fuss, I left her alone. I know some people say to not let them out when they fuss but to me, it was her way of letting me know she had to go out.


Yeah, it really depends on the dog, lol. My Queenie is too much of a dummy, bless her, to be manipulative, and she was very easy to crate train, so if she starts grumbling in her crate I know she legitimately needs something.


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## Kudzu (Aug 15, 2013)

What I did with my puppy after the first night of crying was to wear him out with play an training early in the evening, and then at bedtime I would sit cross legged in front of his open crate and let him fall asleep in my lap while I gently stroked his back. Once he was snoring, which took about 2 minutes at most, I would carefully lift him and place him in his bedding inside the crate, close it and sneak away to my room to sleep. He would open his eyes for a moment, but would then conk right back out. I had my alarm set to come back in a few hours to take him out for potty before he had the opportunity to wake up and get fussy. He was quiet all night from that second night on, and eventually I phased out the overnight potty break when he was older. I think he was hardly aware of being alone, since he was snuggled on my lap until he fell asleep and I would wake him later for a trip outside. He probably thought I was there all night.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

My life saver was when someone suggested I cover the crate with a blanket when Obi was a puppy. I would then only have to stay in the room a couple of minutes while he settled down, then I could leave without him whining. It also meant he slept until I was ready to get up instead of waking up at dawn.

I also spent time rewarding him every time he went into the crate without closing the door. I'd drop treats in there every time he went in or play with him with toys that were already in the crate.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Ahhhh yes, this brings back (albeit unpleasant) memories LOL. Lincoln was TERRIBLE in his crate, he didnt just shriek, he howled, barked, banged around in there, tried to dig out, and even rammed the door like an angry bull with his head and front feet. This also went on the about three weeks, and every time I would leave the room for something, and after I put him back in after his last call potty break, I would have to endure the noise ALL over again. What I did was I would wait until he was quieted down again to return to the room the crate is in (no matter how long it takes, I actually got into the habit of bringing my phone to amuse myself while I waited for the horrible noise to stop LOL.

Are you tiring your puppy out before you put them to bed? If not, I would make sure they have a good play session or a good walk right before bed to ensure they are tired. 

Keep your chin up, I know it's hard, everyone here has been there, wanting to strangle that puppy and pull their hair out all at the same time, you arent a bad person for hating that little noisy idiot, believe me LOL ... but if you are consistent, it WILL get better.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Hiraeth said:


> You said: "I feel like I'm trapped in whatever room the crate is in because if I get up to go to the bathroom or grab something from the kitchen or bedroom the crying will start all over again and last night after I settled her in the crate for the night and left to take a pill real fast she started SHRIEKING."
> 
> So are you consistently re-entering the room after leaving it and she starts crying? Because that's reinforcement. You should relocate her crate to a room that you don't need to get up and re-enter (not a living room or study, in other words), put her in her crate and leave. Do not reappear until she's quiet. Ever.


Some people's floor plans won't allow for that, though, like mine, my apt is very small, we haven't officially had it measured, but if I had to guess, I would say its about 400 sq ft max, the dogs sleep in our living / kitchen area, our bedroom is the only separate room, if I have to get water or whatever, I have to go into their line of sight. 

When I visit my folks, the dogs are crated in my bedroom, again, same issue.

There are ways that you can do it where you don't reinforce crying (I have listed those in my other post).


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## Rorschach (May 4, 2016)

Thank you everyone for the tips and tricks! They actually did a whole class on crate training in puppy socialization class this week which was very helpful as well. Night time is no longer an issue as she gets plenty of exercise and stimulation, maybe even too much for a 3 and half month old and after adding an additional comfy blanket she's actually doing a full 8hrs over night surprisingly enough. The biggest problem has been an continues to be crating during the day time. She's gets a break every 2hrs or so but until she's reliably signaling to go out, she'll have to be in the crate while I'm working. We're going to try the weekend crate training plan this weekend as outlined by the ASPCA which was also recommended to us by the dog trainer. http://petprofessionalguild.com/resources/ASPCA/Weekend Crate Training.pdf

Also, we don't have a home layout that allows for confinement in a room. We have a ranch home that is literally laid out in a loop. You can walk uninterrupted from the front of the house to the back and back to the front again while touring the living room, kitchen, family room, master bath, master bedroom, and a 2nd bedroom. The laundry room is the only centrally located room in the house with an easily blocked off doorway but that room is used for all the cat litter boxes and food plus it's home to the water heater and furnace, so not exactly safe for puppy. Unless we buy a gazillion latching gates the crate is our best option. Once she's housetrained we can leave her in the family room but half of it's carpeted so it's not a good option at this point.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Hang in there! I had a 8mo-1.5 yr old dog that was 'crate trained' according to the rescue but in reality would shriek when crated when I was in the house. She was perfectly fine going in the crate and lying there when the door was open. And rushed to the crate for crate treats. It took a month for the shrieking to stop. And even two months later she still softly whined or shrieked for a few minutes after initially being crated and knew someone was still in the house. Some dogs just don't naturally take to crates.. But I think any dog without serious separation or confinement anxiety can learn to tolerate a crate. I am a huge fan of crate games and making crates comfortable places for dogs. But at the end of the day, if a dog feels not-in-love with the crate yet is safe in it, I will use the crate. 

Keep on doing what you're doing. I wouldn't say your pup is stubborn or willful just based on this crating situation. She may just not like being crated. But I get the feeling if you stick to your plan she will learn to accept it over time.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Be warned, I had a dog who HATED crates and never took to them, so I had to put her in a dog safe room instead, but she was the only one out of all the dogs I have had both adult fosters and pups that didnt take to a crate eventually. Some take to it right away, my hubby's dog was one of them, others take a while, like Lincoln, my current dog.


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