# Dog Food Caution!



## Sakima (Apr 8, 2010)

Found this on CL just now,



> Please stop using the following till Jan 2011 - read in:
> 
> o Solid Gold [all except the Holistique Blendz formula]
> o Taste of the Wild [kibble and canned food]
> ...


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## Jastya (May 16, 2010)

http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/resourcesforyou/ucm047113.htm
FDA isn't always who you want to trust, though, so I went the scientific route.
"Abstract
The chromosomal aberration test was employed to investigate the effect in vitro of a known antioxidant and food preservative, ethoxyquin (EQ, 1,2-dihydro-6-ethoxy-2,2,4-trimethylquinoline) on human chromosomes. The studies were undertaken because there are no published in vitro data on genotoxicity of EQ in mammalian cells and there are many reports pointing out that it may be harmful to animals and human beings. Lymphocytes obtained from three healthy donors were incubated with EQ (0.01–0.5 mM) both with and without metabolic activation. Stability studies performed by HPLC analysis showed that EQ was stable under the conditions of the lymphocyte cultures. The results of the chromosome aberration assay showed that EQ induces chromosome aberrations: gaps and breaks as well as dicentrics and atypical translocation chromosomes." 
- LET IT BE KNOWN. In another portion of the journal, it is stated that these tests are done with 250 and 300 pp. Of COURSE it's going to be poisonous! If I eat too much Advil it will kill me. 

BTW. The amount allowed in human food such as paprika is 100pp. In pet food it's only 75, though from what I can see, that's a maximum most brands really didn't even need.

Not sure if I would implicitly trust a grieving family. Denial and the blame game are actual parts of the mourning process, and it's far better to be more informed than moved. 

If you're not sure, read up on it like I am. I haven't come to any conclusions yet, but if someone else has, I'm all ears!


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

There are many threads here in regards to ethoxyquin and how it is used in the petfood industry. Is it true that it is harmful to dogs, yes. It is true that any fish product imported into the USA has to be preserved at sea with either vitimine E or ethoxyquin, yes. Is it true that those companies you mentioned (and many others you didn't) use ethoxyquin in it's dog food, yes BUT they don't have to list it on the ingredients if it is not something THEY added to the food (which they wouldn't have since it was preserved at sea). 

I agree that a grieving family is not the best place to garner info on ethoxyquin effects. Do a google search and I'm sure you'll get MANY unbias facts.


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

From what I remember reading, TOTW only uses 5 pp vs 75 in other foods. 
Another misconseption is that FDA required the fish meal to be preserved with EQ, which isnt true, they reccomend that its preserved with some type of antioxidant, its cheaper to use EQ, other companies use mixed tocopherols(vit.E) and Naturox. But I heard that Diamond will start using Naturox starting this summer.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

From what I read, Ethoxaquin is supposedly "cooked out" of the dog food (at least that's what I saw when I researched TOTW) during processing. Now that's just something I read in a few different places... whether it's true or not, I have no idea.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Eyssa said:


> From what I read, Ethoxaquin is supposedly "cooked out" of the dog food (at least that's what I saw when I researched TOTW) during processing. Now that's just something I read in a few different places... whether it's true or not, I have no idea.


Even thru high heat cooking processes there is still residuals of any substance that was originally in the food. The only way to "cook out" anything from a food is to turn it to ash. The only thing they may be able to do thru cooking is to reduce/remove the effects of something. Neutralize it so to say like how cooking meat to a certain temperature is suppose to kill ecoli and the like. It's still there, it's just dead. BUT when dealing with a mineral/chemical compound/etc there will always be residue, and over time that residue will build up in an animals system, and eventually to harmful levels if the body can't process it out. 

To BlueChaos, Originally when the law was made about preserving fish at sea, ethoxyquin and Vitamin E were really the only affordable choices, however now that the dangers of EQ are coming out they are coming up with better ways to preserve fish products. But even at that I'm sure that none of the "new" menthods will be as cheap as EQ so it's like beating a dead horse...


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

Um, you do realize that not all raw meat is organic (most isnt), it still has hormones/antibiotics and dyes in it, just because its not processed, doesent mean its any better. 

There are organic kibble on the market, or at least very close to it (Orijen/Acana) for example.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

OffTopic. Sakima Are you KhaosDog on deviantart?


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

To clarify.

If you are feeding Taste of the Wild Bison Formula, which has no fish or fish meal in it, you are probably safe, since ethoxyquin is used to preserve fish only.

Solid Gold uses Ethoxyquin, even though their rep always tell you they don't, which is a complete lie and bullshit. Diamond had already stated they use ethoxyquin preserved fish to manufacture Solid Gold foods.

Canidae, Artemis, Taste of the Wild, Natural Balance, Eukanuba, Science Diet, Purina, Nutro, and other brands all use ethoxyquin preserved fish.

The cooking out argument is bullshit in my own opinion. The fish had already been treated by harsh chemicals.
Imagine soaking a piece of chicken, which you will be feeding your family later, with clorox or bleach. Then we'll put it in the oven or fry it to "cook out" the clorox/bleach. Do you think that piece of chicken is still safe for human and/or animal consumption?

There are many ethoxquin-free fish diets for dogs out there. Such as Orijen, Natura Pet products (innova, innova evo, california natural, etc), Wellness, Blue Buffalo, Castor & Pollux, etc.

If those brands are not affordable or accessible for you, just pick a diet that is *free of fish. *


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## Bones333 (Sep 30, 2009)

This is interesting to me, as I feed my pup TOTW Pacific Steam. He does not do well on chicken, and it has been a challenge to find a food that does not contain any chicken products. Since he is still a pup (10 months) and is 55 lbs., which I believe is considered a large breed, I picked the TOTW because it has a lower protein level than some of the other grain free, fish based foods. What are my options besides the TOTW for my needs?


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## croll326 (Jul 25, 2009)

does anyone know if the Innova EVO fish formula is safe????


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

croll326 said:


> does anyone know if the Innova EVO fish formula is safe????


yes it is. they do not use ethoxyquin. they use naturox if i am not wrong.

as for Bones333, you can try acana pacifica. it has lower protein, and is fished based.

i am sure there are many fished based foods that are lower protein, but i cant remember at the top of my head.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Enhasa said:


> Imagine soaking a piece of chicken, which you will be feeding your family later, with clorox or bleach. Then we'll put it in the oven or fry it to "cook out" the clorox/bleach. Do you think that piece of chicken is still safe for human and/or animal consumption?


Probably a bad comparison, as commercial chicken IS washed in a chlorine bath, and chlorine does dissipate quickly......just saying. 

What's in Naturox?


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

Enhasa- I see where youre coming from, and while I can still afford, I will pay higher cost for core and acana, but I know a lot of people who have dogs with grain intolerance and chicken/beef allergy and since most fish based grain free foods cost at least $65 a bag that doesent have EQ, it isnt an option for those on the budget (or multiple dogs). We gotta do what we feel is best for our pets.


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

california natural has a fish based grain free food now. i think it just came out. im not too sure bout the pricing, but california natural has been pretty cheap all along. i remember seeing the 6 pound bag for $8.50 at my local store.
i am not too sure bout big sized bags, because i have a small dog so i don't buy big bags since it takes months to finish a 6 pound bag.

taste of the wild is cheap, i do admit that. my local store sells the 6 pound bag for $9.50.

lamb is a good alternative to chicken/beef allergic dogs.
nature's variety is actually pretty cheap too. the praire sells for $14.50 for lamb, $15 for salmon (6 pound bag), and there is a buy 1 get 1 free offer that never expires.

so technically $7.50 per 6 pound bag, which makes it cheaper than taste of the wild.

when buying pet food, always get coupons and look out for offers on the internet.
brands like canidae and nature's variety have buy 1 get 1 free offers that never expire all year round.
natura pet products have $5 off coupons which is easily obtainable and can be used for karma, california natural, healthwise, innova, innova evo.

hope this helps for people with budget constraints!


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

I found this on another website. The poster there said that they had e-mailed TOTW and got this as a response:



> Thank you for your inquiry.
> 
> The preservation systems used by our vendors are considered proprietary information. The heat from our pet food process destroys antioxidants that are used in the ingredients that we purchase. The cooking process at our
> facilities is at or above 240 degrees. After the heat process (extrusion
> ...


About 10 other people posted there and said that they had received the same e-mail back. So, take it with a grain of salt.


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

i had heard rumors that diamond will be making the switch to ethoxyquin-free fish in june, but not sure if this is true or not.

even if they do start switching in june, the food on your pet store shelves probably still do contain ethoxyquin as they are manufactured before the switch, and will probably take a good 3-6 months for it to actually reach you.


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

Enhasa said:


> To clarify.
> 
> *If you are feeding Taste of the Wild Bison Formula, which has no fish or fish meal in it, you are probably safe, since ethoxyquin is used to preserve fish only.
> *
> Solid Gold uses Ethoxyquin, even though their rep always tell you they don't, which is a complete lie and bullshit. Diamond had already stated they use ethoxyquin preserved fish to manufacture Solid Gold foods. [/B]


Mmm it does have fish meal in it. It's around the 13th listed ingredient.


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

oh... i didnt know that. i dont feed TOTW though so i dont really know the ingredients that well.

if its 13th down the list, i'd say the amount of fish is really non-substaintial. prolly 1-5% of the overall content of food.
so i guess one would argue the amount of ethoxyquin is non-existent, or very little.
still bad, but also good in another way.

but this is seriously a lot better than ethoxyquin preserved fish being no.1 or no.2 on the ingredient list.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

So first Ethoxyquin causes splenic and liver cancer, and now it's an anti-oxident that prevents it? I can honestly say that I am becoming quite confused... I'm not sure I want to know what other crap is in our dog foods.

I'm not even sure I'll be able to switch to a different brand other than TOTW. The closest dog food store within an hour of here only sells a choice variety of dog foods, including TOTW, Evo, Wellness, and a few others... and who knows what is in them. I guess it's time to research other brands.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

I can never keep up with the issues with dog food lol.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Maybe this can help clear some of it up for ya Eylssa. Random sources quoted here so don't ask where it came from ok.

1. Ethoxyquin is a quinoline-based antioxidant used as a food preservative and a pesticide (under commercial names such as "Stop-Scald"). It is commonly used as a preservative in pet foods to prevent the rancidification of fats. There has been some speculation that ethoxyquin in pet foods might be responsible for multiple health problems. To date, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has only found a verifiable connection between ethoxyquin and buildup of protoporphyrin IX in the liver, as well as elevations in liver-related enzymes in some animals, but there are no known health consequences from these effects.[2] Until further evidence is reported, the FDA has asked pet food manufacturers to voluntarily limit ethoxyquin levels to 75 ppm.[2] However, most pet foods that contain ethoxyquin have never exceeded this amount.[2]

Ethoxyquin has been shown to cause mortality in fish.[3]

Ethoxyquin is also commonly used in spices to prevent color loss due to oxidation of the natural carotenoid pigments.

The FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine (CVM) in 1997 requested a voluntary reduction of ethoxyquin from 150 ppm to 75 ppm in complete dog foods. The work used to make the reduction request was never published in peer reviewed journals or made readily available to public or scientific scrutiny.


*Here's a good link that explains what all that stuff is in our dog food. Unrelated link but good info. 

http://www.ahimsarescuefoundation.org/glossary_ingredients.htm

2. ETHOXYQUIN: originally developed for use in the production of rubber, this common preservative is among the compounds most suspect as causes of severe health problems in dogs. The makers of ethoxyquin state that it is a hazardous chemical, it may cause skin problems, eye problems, and problems in the kidneys and liver. In addition, there may be a reduction in the survival of the offspring. The law says that if a manufacturer puts ethoxyquin in the dog food, they have to list it in the ingredients. But if it’s in the animal/poultry fat when he buys it, he doesn’t have to list it. “No ethoxyquin added.” That doesn’t mean that there is no ethoxyquin in their fats or oils - it only means that they have not added any to the product. 


3. It is an antioxidant which is FDA approved and has been in animal feeds for over 30 years. It is used to prevent oxidization and rancidity in fats in order to maintain wholesomeness and quality in pet food. It significantly reduces the levels of BHA and BHT (which are also antioxidants) required for preservation. In an article printed in the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine Animal Health Newsletter, Vol 6, No. 9, Nov.,1988 it is stated that they are not aware of any evidence that ethoxyquin, at the levels used in pet foods, acts as a carcinogen. " It should be noted that many substances in the diet are beneficial at low levels but harmful when present in excess. This is as true for essential nutrients like Vitamins A and D and iodine as it is for chemical additives. No nutritionist would recommend completely eliminating vitamin A from the diet just because high levels are toxic. The same can be said for preservatives like ethoxyquin. When used in small amounts to prevent rancidity, they are valuable and important components of the diet."

And the rest of the info can be find here (highly suggest reading this one. It's VERY interesting.): http://dachshealth.tripod.com/ethoxyquin.htm


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> If those brands are not affordable or accessible for you, just pick a diet that is free of fish.


Tell that to my GSD, who has major Rocket Butt issues on most other proteins. We have three choices at this point....Nature's Recipe Lamb and Rice (it has Menadione in it), Nature's Recipe Venison (also has menadione), or TOTW Pacific Salmon (which has ethoxyquin). Right now, we're sticking with TOTW. Stools are firmer and more consistent than they've been in a long time.

Every food has "Something".


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## maquignon (Oct 21, 2009)

The FDA does not require the ethoxyquin. The Coast Guard requires it on all fish meal that is shipped by boat (not all of it is). 

Foods confirmed to be ethoxyquin-free:

Innova
Evo
California Naturals
Blue Buffalo
By Nature
Flint River Ranch
Fromm
Merrick
Petcurean
Timberwolf
Wellness
Orijen
Acana
Nature’s Variety
Life’s Abundance
Halo (Spot’s Stew)
Horizon
Pinnacle
Canine Caviar
Eagle Pack
Evangers
Castor & Pollux
Evolve
Nature’s Logic
Grandma Mae’s
Ziwi Peak
Nature’s Logic

Foods confirmed to use ethoxyquin (should be avoided):
Diamond
Canidae
Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover’s Soul
Solid Gold
Artemis
Taste of the Wild
Iams
Eukanuba
Natural Balance
Hills
Premium Edge
Fosters & Smith
Nutro
Kirkland


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

The makers of California Naturals were just bought out by P&G. I can't even get 3/4's of the stuff listed, and either can't afford, or my dog's stomach can't tolerate the rest.

Strauss got SO incredibly sick on Timberwolf and Solid Gold (I know SG is in the other list).

He did well on Fromm's, but it's not available here, and I'm not paying almost $70 for a bag of dog food (Wellness).


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## Jastya (May 16, 2010)

Xeph, have you considered forgoing bagged food and trying out raw? I'm in the same predicament where I can't get nor afford a good portion of the foods on that list, either. So I'm doing research on Raw and switching the puppies. 
(It was the plan, anyways, but it's much more urgent now that I see a lot of issues with cheaper dog food brands.)


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I think I mentioned it earlier, but Strauss didn't do well on raw. Loved it, but had lots of issues (after MUCH research and reading, and and and).


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

I think this ethoxyquin thing is mostly hype- there are a lot of carcinogens in the environment. Just isolating one ingredient as a core cause just seems silly to me when there hasn't been in-depth research into the issue. Obviously in certain instances ethoxyquin is a known carcinogen but so is a lot of other stuff. In experiments they use hundreds of times the amount in pet food to get the results.

I like TOTW- my dogs do- and most important of all they do well on it. I find this hysterical fear mongering borderline obnoxious. If I didn't know better I'd think I was killing my dog by feeding him this food when there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that is the case other then vague analysis and supposition by multiple parties with no clear consensus.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Totally agree with you Bones.


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## Jastya (May 16, 2010)

Ooh, looks like I missed that post, Xeph, I'm sorry!  That really stinks for you, and it's a shame he didn't do well. All dogs are different, I suppose. 

I also agree that there's a bit of alarmist stink to the whole thing around this chemical. Kibble in general gets a really really horrible rap, and I have yet to get ANY confirmation from any source that says that dog food companies use dead pets, vats of old oil from macdonalds, etc.. for their foods. It's that kind of "THEY'RE HURTING THEM SOMEHOW" screaming and hollering that makes it really hard for the rest of us to figure out what the truth actually is. 
I'm sure most chemicals used to preserve things have some kind of carcinogenic properties. 
As does probably the scotch guarde on the carpet your dog plays on. 
As do the dog biscuits you feed them. And everything in between.  The best thing to do is find a food that is high quality, doesn't have a lot of crazy stuff in the ingredients list, and keep an eye on your pet's health. That's all any of us can do.


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## JonnyNutro (Mar 29, 2010)

I am not sure of the source(s) of information about Nutro using Ethoxyquin, but Nutro does not use ethoxyquin. _We do not use or accept any ingredients from suppliers who use it to preserve their products._ It is not in our food at all.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Bones said:


> I think this ethoxyquin thing is mostly hype- there are a lot of carcinogens in the environment. Just isolating one ingredient as a core cause just seems silly to me when there hasn't been in-depth research into the issue. Obviously in certain instances ethoxyquin is a known carcinogen but so is a lot of other stuff. In experiments they use hundreds of times the amount in pet food to get the results.
> 
> I like TOTW- my dogs do- and most important of all they do well on it. I find this hysterical fear mongering borderline obnoxious. If I didn't know better I'd think I was killing my dog by feeding him this food when there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that is the case other then vague analysis and supposition by multiple parties with no clear consensus.


I agree. I actually think most pet food issues are hype... Feed what you are comfortable with and what your dog does well on. End of problem, lol!

Personally, ethoxyquin is about the least thing I am worried about.


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

Eyssa said:


> So first Ethoxyquin causes splenic and liver cancer, and now it's an anti-oxident that prevents it? I can honestly say that I am becoming quite confused... I'm not sure I want to know what other crap is in our dog foods.


"In the late 1980s and early 1990s there were a number of anecdotal reports to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) by pet owners, principally breeders, of reproductive problems, cancers, itchy skin, etc. in their pets (Dzanis, 1991). Most of these claims have since been refuted, but not before getting the attention of the FDA and the principal manufacturer (*Monsanto *Co.). This led to a third series of studies (the first and second were completed in 1958 and 1964, respectively) conducted as a voluntary 3.5 year, two-generation feeding trial of Beagle dogs in which ethoxyquin was included in the diet at 0, 180 and 360 ppm. This study, completed in 1996, concluded that there was no impairment to reproductive performance or offspring development. However, slight liver pigmentation (protoporphyrin IX; a heme intermediate) changes and an increase in some of the liver enzymes consistent with elevated intake of antioxidants were noted for dogs at the highest doses.

The results of these studies precipitated the FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine (CVM) in 1997 to request a voluntary reduction of ethoxyquin from 150 ppm to 75 ppm in complete dog foods. No mention of cats or other companion animal species was made. That was nearly a decade ago, and nothing new has been forthcoming since. In fact, no new original research relating to ethoxyquin safety in dogs or cats has been published since, nor was the work used to make the reduction request ever published in peer reviewed journals or made readily available to public or scientific scrutiny.

Ignoring the issue has not made it go away; rather, the controversy lives on with more speculation and mis-information to fill the vacuum.

Balanced dissonance

It may be more about striking the right balance than a decision between good and bad. For example, it has been demonstrated in other species that ethoxyquin in the diet can spare vitamin E, increase tissue glutathione, protect the thyroid from iodine-induced injury, protect against hepatocarcinogenesis due to aflatoxin B1 ingestion, benefit anaerobic fermentation and suppress methanogenesis, just to name a few. Granted, ethoxyquin can be toxic at megadoses (the LD50 for rats and mice is 1,920 and 1,730 mg/kg BW, respectively) but so can such staple nutrients like vitamin A and selenium.

Many of the critics of ethoxyquin unequivocally claim that it is unsafe. While there is evidence to suggest that at high doses ethoxyquin may cause reproductive diseases, dermatological, hepatic, renal and thyroid problems, as well as carcinogenesis in dogs, there is really no evidence to support this position in dogs or cats at the FDA-approved levels of ethoxyquin in the diet.

To the contrary, there may be benefits to ethoxyquin that have yet to be discovered. Ethoxyquin remains an emotional and divisive ingredient issue a decade after the "synthetic versus natural" divide. While consumers may continue to make their decisions based on risks and rewards, the petfood industry would do well to fill in some of the gaps in our knowledge regarding the safety and utility of this ingredient. Until then, it's great to have choices."
Greg Aldrich, PhD

basiclly he is saying he thinks the fears are way overblown and there are benifits. However, there should be more research. 

I tend to question any govt backed research because Monsanto is so influential.


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm pretty sure TOTW has gone EQ free this summer, at least that what I heard, supposedly theres a sticker on the bag that says so, I have to check it out next time I go to the store.


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## ajcstr (May 28, 2010)

FYI - should be able to knock several off the list

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/ar...nds-of-pet-food-to-change--looks-like-it.html


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