# Dematter recommendation please



## msminnamouse (Jul 14, 2008)

Can you guys please recommend a dematting rake? Something affordable would be so nice...  I prefer professional tools because they usually work better than "pet" tools.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't ever use dematting tools, because I feel they just do more damage to the hair, which creates even more matting. I put Survivor (by EQyss) in the hair, and then use my slicker and comb to ease out the mat. For those really bad mats, I rub in corn starch, pull the hair apart as much as possible, add a little more corn starch, and then gently pull the slicker and/or comb through. 

Slicker of choice is the one made by Les Poochs, but it's a little spendy at $85. Worth it, though!


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

That Les Poochs brush looks great!! 

Do you think that cornstarch will help to looses the winter coat from Iorek's fur? He really hates for me to brush him and if the cornstarch will help the winter coat slide out smoother it might make it easier to brush him.

(Sorry for the hijack )


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## msminnamouse (Jul 14, 2008)

No need to apologize ioreks_mom.

Maybe I'll try conditioner and brushing out while the hair is saturated with it. It always worked on my tangles. 

The Survivor is kind of pricey for one dog (I'm a college student so everything is pricey!) but if I start grooming more dogs, I'll probably just get it.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

For my sammy I also put conditioner on his fur and comb him out with my rake while he is still covered in it.

When we were taking Iorek to obedience the trainer said that dog's don't need fancy shampoo and conditioner. She said that I can get any old human shampoo/conditioner and it would be fine. I bought big 1 litre bottles that are vanilla and honey scent and they were only about $5 each. We still have tons. It smells much nicer than most dog shampoo that I have found since it is a very mild scent and the conditioner works really well as a detangler. 

I think that will be my job for this weekend. I just tried to get a grooming appt for Iorek and had no luck... My family is coming for a visit in a few weeks and I want him looking good


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## msminnamouse (Jul 14, 2008)

I don't know about that. I posted that I used human shampoo on my dog in a grooming forum and they all told me that it was too drying for dogs, and that the pH isn't right for dogs and that it strips the oils in their coats.

Here's a link I just found if you're interested: http://www.petmd.com/dog/grooming/evr_dg_shampoo_for_dogs


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Thanks, I will have a look at the link. 

Our obedience trainer is a former groomer and she said it was fine to use. Iorek gets about 4-5 baths a year so I doubt that it would be too drying that many times. Plus, I condition every time I bathe him anyway. He isn't bathed too often so I guess it is ok for infrequent baths.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

ioreks_mom said:


> That Les Poochs brush looks great!!
> 
> Do you think that cornstarch will help to looses the winter coat from Iorek's fur? He really hates for me to brush him and if the cornstarch will help the winter coat slide out smoother it might make it easier to brush him.
> 
> (Sorry for the hijack )



Hmm, I don't know! cornstarch makes the hair real slippery, so mats slide out easily, and it also absorbs oil and dirt. Guess it wouldn't hurt to try!


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Thanks! I will give it a try tonight!


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## msminnamouse (Jul 14, 2008)

Are furminator type rakes and dematting rakes really just the same thing?


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

No. A rake has long teeth that are usually spaced apart and the furminator kind of looks like a blade from a set of clippers.

Undercoat rake 

Furminator


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

ioreks_mom said:


> Thanks, I will have a look at the link.
> 
> Our obedience trainer is a former groomer and she said it was fine to use. Iorek gets about 4-5 baths a year so I doubt that it would be too drying that many times. Plus, I condition every time I bathe him anyway. He isn't bathed too often so I guess it is ok for infrequent baths.


Alot of groomers still use Dawn for degreasing too, and although I will on the very seldom occasion, I prefer not too. Just because something has been used for a long time, doesn't make it 'best' for the pet. Dawn, as well as human products DO strip the natural oils from a dog's coat, which can actually cause more oil buildup, and skin problems, because the dog's system has to try and replace all that oil. Good quality pet shampoos don't strip those natural oils from the coat, and can be easier on the ph of the dog, because they are designed for them. 

That said, I guess if the dog is only getting a bath on occasion, what you are using is fine for now. There are decent pet shampoos that cost just as little as what you spent, and you can dilute those as well, for future reference. 

As a general rule, a double coat dog doesn't require conditioning either. If you want a dematting or coat loosening effect there are products for that, that don't soften those double coats so much.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

msminnamouse said:


> No need to apologize ioreks_mom.
> 
> Maybe I'll try conditioner and brushing out while the hair is saturated with it. It always worked on my tangles.
> 
> The Survivor is kind of pricey for one dog (I'm a college student so everything is pricey!) but if I start grooming more dogs, I'll probably just get it.


You don't want to _saturate_ the hair with conditioner, then brush out. Just spray a light mist. Survivor will last you for at least a year, and you can use it on yours, too! A tiny dab in your palm - a little smaller than dime-size - will do your entire dog.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Love's_Sophie said:


> Alot of groomers still use Dawn for degreasing too, and although I will on the very seldom occasion, I prefer not too. Just because something has been used for a long time, doesn't make it 'best' for the pet. Dawn, as well as human products DO strip the natural oils from a dog's coat, which can actually cause more oil buildup, and skin problems, because the dog's system has to try and replace all that oil. Good quality pet shampoos don't strip those natural oils from the coat, and can be easier on the ph of the dog, because they are designed for them.
> 
> That said, I guess if the dog is only getting a bath on occasion, what you are using is fine for now. There are decent pet shampoos that cost just as little as what you spent, and you can dilute those as well, for future reference.
> 
> As a general rule, a double coat dog doesn't require conditioning either. If you want a dematting or coat loosening effect there are products for that, that don't soften those double coats so much.


Why don't I want Iorek's coat soft? I am not trying to be snotty, I am curious about it? Will being soft cause more mats or something? I find that putting the conditioner on his fur and then combing it through with a rake really helps to loosen things up. I don't have access to products that loosen coat. In my town I only have access to human things, no dog things. I can check next time I am in town but I doubt I can find something like that. I suppose I could check online.

I actually do have good dog shampoo and that is what I have been using for the past year and a half or so (about 6 baths), ever since Iorek has gotten itchy. It is oatmeal and aloe and it is not stinky like most dog shampoo so I don't mind using it. I don't like my dogs to smell like a pina colada! I don't bathe him often because he is so itchy and I am worried that I am drying out his skin if he gets too many baths.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Yes, it can cause more matting in a dog like that...mainly because the conditioner can weight the hair down, and can give it a more 'greasy' feel to it; which also collects more dirt and such to their coats. Especially because the conditioner you are using, is human type, it probably does leave more 'build up' in his coat, than anything. It may help you comb him out, but again, may not be best for his coat long term. The conditioner you are using could also be the source of part of his itchiness. The only dogs that really ever need conditioners for their coats are long drop coated dogs, at least in my experience.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

The conditioner that I use is very light. I would never be able to use it on my own hair because it is really too light. It doesn't have any build up that I can feel. (I am a trained hairstylist) It really helps for his fur to come out better while he is drying as well. He definitely doesn't feel greasy and there is no dirt sticking to his fur. If he does get dirty it just dries and then brushes out.

It could be the conditioner that is causing the itchies but I really doubt it. He hasn't had a bath with this conditioner for over 6 months. I have been trying different things for his itchies and the vet suggested Nizoral shampoo in case it was yeast and then I ordered Tropiclean Oxymed rinse and the spray. Neither one of those things worked. And, I really hate the smell of the Tropiclean stuff. I am not a fan of smelly things. I would love to get Eqyss Microtek products but I just can't get it affordably here. The shipping alone for the shampoo and spray was over $40, more than I was going to pay for the products themselves! It is not easy to get these things in Canada.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

ioreks_mom said:


> The conditioner that I use is very light. I would never be able to use it on my own hair because it is really too light. It doesn't have any build up that I can feel. (I am a trained hairstylist) It really helps for his fur to come out better while he is drying as well. He definitely doesn't feel greasy and there is no dirt sticking to his fur. If he does get dirty it just dries and then brushes out.
> 
> It could be the conditioner that is causing the itchies but I really doubt it. He hasn't had a bath with this conditioner for over 6 months. I have been trying different things for his itchies and the vet suggested Nizoral shampoo in case it was yeast and then I ordered Tropiclean Oxymed rinse and the spray. Neither one of those things worked. And, I really hate the smell of the Tropiclean stuff. I am not a fan of smelly things. I would love to get Eqyss Microtek products but I just can't get it affordably here. The shipping alone for the shampoo and spray was over $40, more than I was going to pay for the products themselves! It is not easy to get these things in Canada.


I agree. NO conditioner of ANY kind!!!! There is absolutely no need for a conditioner on a samoyed. Especially when he isn't being bathed weekly. If he was getting weekly baths, I might do it, but otherwise NEVER! That conditioner is not only softening the outer coat (which you want to be crisp and coarse as it helps to naturally shed the undercoat rather than matt and pack the undercoat up) and making it harder (yes harder, NOT easier) to brush the undercoat out. Use a clarifying shampoo on your dog. Since you can't order in pet products, try a human one, though I cannot guarantee your results...Coat Handler (for dogs) makes an excellent clarifying shampoo. Wash the dog and rinse rinse rinse rinse rinse. Mist the towel dried dog with Show Sheen (horse product) lightly, then rub into the coat. Ideally, HV dry him and then brush him out.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

So, a clarifying shampoo like a deep cleansing, stripping one? One that takes build up off human hair? 

I am going into town tomorrow and I can see what the pet store there has but I am not optimistic. 

If I can't find anything I will get some human shampoo like that. 

What do you suggest to help his fur around his throat area? He scratched there a lot and now he has his fur destroyed there  It is very rough and yucky. I thought that conditioner would help that? He also scratches the back of his legs where he is supposed to have pretty fringy fur but that is pretty nasty looking too. I can brush it out but he keeps destroying it  At least he doesn't scratch his throat very much anymore.

I am going to give him a bath soon so I will try what you suggested.

I don't have a hv dryer and I don't have access to one


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

ioreks_mom said:


> So, a clarifying shampoo like a deep cleansing, stripping one? One that takes build up off human hair?
> 
> I am going into town tomorrow and I can see what the pet store there has but I am not optimistic.
> 
> ...


Yes, a shampoo like the human clarifying shampoos..ideally one made exclusively for dogs..but a human one will work..just rinse rinse rinse. Conditioner is not going to help coat that is damaged from scratching/chewing, etc. and its only going to soften the coat that is there, making it more susceptible to matting and more damage. Conditioner is not going to help itchy dry skin either. That is an internal issue, and conditioner won't help, and could make the scratching worse, as a residue is ALWAYS left after using conditioners.


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## Bruin's Mom (Jul 2, 2021)

ioreks_mom said:


> Thanks, I will have a look at the link.
> 
> Our obedience trainer is a former groomer and she said it was fine to use. Iorek gets about 4-5 baths a year so I doubt that it would be too drying that many times. Plus, I condition every time I bathe him anyway. He isn't bathed too often so I guess it is ok for infrequent baths.


I'm sorry if I'm derailing things, but I know a lot of very high-quality breeders (dogs at Westminster,...) who all wash their dogs with Dawn Dish soap. Though I usually yield to the common practices of professionals, I just can't bring myself to try it. Has anybody else?


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## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

This is an eleven year old thread and none of the members participating have been active here in some time, so I'm going to close it to further replies. You can absolutely start your own thread on the topic! It's just that old threads like these get confusing and new questions tend to get lost.


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