# 8 Month Old Husky-Mix, Biting children.



## Flipmode (Feb 6, 2011)

I've come here as a last resort really - before we try to find a new home for our dog. 

We got "Bear" for Christmas last year. I have 3 girls, ages 5, 7, 9, and we live in a cul-de-sac in a neighborhood with lots of children. Our dog has been nipping at the kids since he was small. We took him for personal lessons at the local pet smart. We even took the kids and the neighbors kids with us. It was good, but just typical obedience stuff. Our dog is neurotic. He barks and pants constantly when we are not home. 

He bit the neighbors girl a few months ago, drew blood. She went to the doctors. Since then, we've had strict rules on him being around the kids. He's fine with my kids, but it's just really hard when the neighbors come over to go swimming, or if they come inside to play. 

Well this evening, my 7 year old let Bear out not on a leash and he bit another neighbor. 2 puncture wounds on leg - no doctors though. Parents weren't too happy. 

I think that our dog is just aggressive and it's just embedded in his brain. Can this be worked on without major training? My wife suggested an anxiety pill or something to calm him down - but I don't think that will work. Just make a zombie dog. We talked about fencing in the yard, but that will not work in all cases. Too many kids. We wish Ceasar was here!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I think it would help a lot if you could please post some more information about the circumstances of the bites (as much as you know/can remember) - what the situation was, what the people who got bitten were doing just before the bite, your dog's behavior and body language before and after the bite, who else and what else was around (toys or food, for example). 

Having said that, there are some very knowledgeable people on here but at the end of the day it is just the internet... it's hard to really evaluate what's going on in real life from posts on a message board. People can give you some general ideas but once bites have happened your best bet is to ask your veterinarian for a referral to a behaviorist (not a trainer, a veterinary behaviorist). In the meantime, continue to keep your dog separated from kids outside the family.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yep, I agree with sassafras. I think fencing in the yard or, getting a dog pen that he can to into when kids are over.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 25, 2011)

Flipmode said:


> I think that our dog is just aggressive and it's just embedded in his brain. Can this be worked on without major training? My wife suggested an anxiety pill or something to calm him down - but I don't think that will work. Just make a zombie dog. We talked about fencing in the yard, but that will not work in all cases. Too many kids. We wish Ceasar was here!


 I agree with what the others said but had one more thing to add: no, it cannot be worked on without major training. Any behavioral issue like that takes lots of work and commitment. And he _may_ never be 100% trustworthy, you are always going to have to watch him.

Also, no, your dog's aggression is not embedded in his brain nor is he "just aggressive" naturally. I'm guessing he wasn't exposed to strange children enough as a young pup and is therefore just not used to it. My Lhasa is this way, he hasn't bitten any kids yet but he barks and growls at children he doesn't know. Is it his fault? Does he just naturally not like children? Nope, it was me and my mom's fault. We didn't make sure he got exposed to kids outside the family and now he doesn't know how to be around them. Generally speaking, when a dog messes up and does something "wrong", (you gotta remember that to the dog, what he did was just fine. They don't know "right" from "wrong".) it was the owner's fault. Somehow, us humans have messed up. (again.  ) 

I would recommend making double sure your dog doesn't have contact with strange children until you have decided what to do about his problems. One day he's going to bite the kid of a parent who isn't very tolerant of biting dogs and your dog will end up getting PTS. Because that's what happens to a good many biting dogs eventually. 

Please don't take what I say as "harsh" or as an attack. That's certainly not my intention.


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## Flipmode (Feb 6, 2011)

mom24doggies said:


> I'm guessing he wasn't exposed to strange children enough as a young pup and is therefore just not used to it.


This would make sense... but unfortuantly it's not the case. He's been exposed to tons of kids since the day we brought him home from the shelter. When he was 8 weeks, like the first week we had him in the house, he nipped at my daughter. We thought he was just scared or it was an adjustment issue. But it's honestly never stopped. Just not my kids now, the other kids. 



sassafras said:


> I think it would help a lot if you could please post some more information about the circumstances of the bites


 He is very anxious. We crate him when we leave, and he barks and pants a lot of the time left alone. It's getting better, but we used to come home and his paws and legs would be wet. We thought he was pee'ing, but we video taped him and he panted and barked for an hour straight. He drooled all over himself. 

The running and playing of children is what causes the biting. A couple of times he's nipped at kids on the swings. The movement i guess. He will never bother a kid if they are watching TV or something inactive. Only when they are running around or moving a lot. 

I live in the upstate of south carolina, and found this guy online. I may give him a call, but I just don't have the faith that what he'll do will work. I know my family is busy, especially during the school year, and we just may not have the time to devote to this dog. 


thanks for the feedback so far all.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

So were the kids running by him when it happened? If your dog is anxious he could be biting out of fear, although again it's so hard to say on the internet. As such, I wouldn't use the guy you linked to - without sidetracking too much into his methods in general, in my opinion they will not help a fearful, anxious dog and could potentially make things worse. 

Here's a link that may help you find some resources in your area.


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## Flipmode (Feb 6, 2011)

'I have contacted: http://www.upstatedogtraining.com/index.htm for an evaluation. $400 for 3 week on-site class. they hav children to expose him too as well. They will be honest on weather my dog can be safe or not. My vet recommend this facility.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Is he acting aggressive? Could it be that he just wants to play with these kids but just doesn't know how to play carefully? I have a 3 month old puppy and he can bite pretty hard while playing. He hasn't drawn blood yet but he has come close. Perhaps your dog just never learned bite inhibition.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Could this dog be of a herding breed mix? Could he be trying to herd the children since he only does it when the children are on the move? Any owners of herding breeds out there?

I would most definitely keep him away from the children until you see a trained behaviorist. Too many people being bitten and it could turn really ugly on your pocket-book or property.........not to mention the dog ending up in quarantine and being PTS!


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## Flipmode (Feb 6, 2011)

it's either herding or defending his family. The kids are normally playing and moving fast, probably laughing and yelling as well. He's a husky mix, so I understand that is a herding breed, as well as a breed who forms a tight bond with the family and will act defensive to potential threats (screaming kids). He has 1 documented bite with animal control. The bite yesterday, the neighbor did not go to the hospital, but I'm not sure if she documented this. In this state, 3rd documented bite is automatic put to sleep.

thanks for the responses guys - I really want to try and get this pup under control. The kids are heart-broken.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

Flipmode said:


> it's either herding or defending his family. The kids are normally playing and moving fast, probably laughing and yelling as well. He's a husky mix, so I understand that is a herding breed, as well as a breed who forms a tight bond with the family and will act defensive to potential threats (screaming kids).


A husky isn't a herding breed. Herding breeds don't instinctively attack potential threats. A herding dog might see a screaming kid as livestock and try to herd it but this is generally just a nipping of the heels.

It sounds more like a puppy who wasn't taught bite inhibition getting excited and carried away.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Good luck, I hope things work out for you and your family.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yep, herding behavior is modified hunting behavior, BUT the onlything different is that hurting/killing isn't accomplished. 

Huskies are working breeds, not herding breeds. It could be that he is over stimulated with all the movement & such & it could be just really aggressive play.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

mom24doggies said:


> Also, no, your dog's aggression is not embedded in his brain nor is he "just aggressive" naturally.


I get what you're trying to say, but this statement isn't consistent with what we know about behavior. Behaviors and tendencies are either innate (genetically based) or learned. Aggression DOES have a genetic basis, and it is something that can be passed down through generations. Just look at the famous series of fox domestication experiments in Siberia -- they selected for aggression in one series (breeding the most aggressive/feral foxes to each other for generations) and eventually found that no amount of socialization and counter conditioning, early or otherwise, could make them affectionate with humans. My local humane society has recently adopted a policy of euthanizing the puppies that come in with a severely human aggressive mother because they found that those kinds of puppies were very likely to be returned with impressive bite records. 

Despite that, though, I don't think your dog is truly aggressive with children -- he's not, for instance, attempting to kill them. I think he's the kind of dog that would be labelled as "not good with children" on sites like petfinder because they make him nervous. Children are loud, small, and prone to very sudden movements, and a lot of dogs don't do well with that. He seems like the kind of dog who would be happier with an active childless couple than a family with three small girls in a cul-de-sac full of children. I'm interested to learn what the trainer has to say. I definitely think contacting a professional is the right step.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Cricket loops>> oh yeah, I remember seeing that experiment on the foxes, what was even weirder was what happened to the ones that they selectively bred that had good temperaments... Their coats & everything started to change.


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## Charis (Jul 12, 2009)

I agree with those above how say you need to examine what happened around the bites. If the children were behaving incorrectly around the dog (hitting, pulling tail, etc) then the dog may well have growled - the child not heeded the warning and the dog escalated to get the pain to stop. The children could have been running and screaming by the dog he got excited and was playing and nipped playfully too hard (lack of bite inhibition). It is impossible to say over the internet and consulting someone in person is the best choice.
I will second huskies are not herding breeds. They are a nordic breed and developed to pull sleds, go for a long time and on minimal food. Not really applicable to your circumstances but the purpose of the breed. Huskies can be very, very mouthy without proper bite inhibition training. They are also known for having a very high prey drive and young screaming children could set this off. These are generic breed traits however may vary in each breed specimen. 

I think you are taking the correct route seeking professional help. I wish you luck in getting the dog trained out of this and at least to a level you can keep him even if he isn't allowed to play with other children anymore.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 25, 2011)

CricketLoops said:


> I get what you're trying to say, but this statement isn't consistent with what we know about behavior. Behaviors and tendencies are either innate (genetically based) or learned. Aggression DOES have a genetic basis, and it is something that can be passed down through generations. Just look at the famous series of fox domestication experiments in Siberia -- they selected for aggression in one series (breeding the most aggressive/feral foxes to each other for generations) and eventually found that no amount of socialization and counter conditioning, early or otherwise, could make them affectionate with humans. My local humane society has recently adopted a policy of euthanizing the puppies that come in with a severely human aggressive mother because they found that those kinds of puppies were very likely to be returned with impressive bite records.


 OK, I guess I stated what I meant wrong: the _*average*_ dog is not genetically predisposed to being aggressive, or as the OP put it, have aggression embedded in the brain. A lot of people want to blame dog bites on the dog, and IMO it is usually the human's issue. Somehow, somewhere, they missed something in the dogs training and/or socialization. But again, I'm talking about your average dog.

But yes, I do realize and agree that different temperamental traits can be "bred into" a dog. I can see it in humans, too....for example, my dad is a rather shy, more reserved person. He passed it on to me. My mom, on the other hand, is very outgoing and talkative...and she passed it down to several of my siblings.


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

I agree with a lot of what everyone else is saying however I have a few things to add.

To me it sounds like he is getting overexcited, huskies are high energy dogs and require a lot of exercise esp young ones like your dog. While your dog may not be a purebred he is likely brimming with energy. How often and how long do you take him for walks/runs? This may be one of the reasons he is acting up. Energetic dogs are destructive and get overexcited easily. 

Also I would suggest after a nice long walk to stand with your dog leashed outside where your children/neighbors are playing. With lots of SUPER yummy treats sit him down and have the children run by, when he reacts to them, have him do a command such as sit/lay down. Once he is calm in the position you give him the treat. Repeat this until he is calmly watching the kids run back and forth. This is called desensitizing. You didn't say that he growled at the kids or bared his teeth so I am going to look at this as him not being aggressive and just overwhelmed/excited.

I would also seek professional help, but desensitizing is a start till then.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Ditto on the "lots of exercise". I Bet the dog isn't getting walked briskly twice a day for about 45 min each time. That would be about the minimum a husky type dog needs.
I'd also say, fence the yard or at least a portion of it off the back door, and padlock the gate. If kids want to go out (outside of the fenced area), they use another door, so they don't accidentally leave a gate open. The fence needs to be a high one, as huskies are great climbers/jumpers.
Sounds like you got the dog too young and he never was taught bite inhibition. Doesn't sound like aggression, but just an inability to control his excited/playing bites.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm not a trainer but if this were my dog, I'd be finding a good positive trainer (not Cesar) and I would be keeping him away from other kids. I don't care if they come into your house or your yard, you're the human and you need to keep the kids safe. If he bites one in the face, the parents will be far more than just a little unhappy with you. I hope you find a way to help your dog. You said you came here as a last resort before finding a new home. Keep in mind if he goes elsewhere, he may be put down. No reputable place will rehome a dog who's bitten and drawn blood, on numerous occasions. If you rehome yourself, you could be in trouble for rehoming a known biter.


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## upfromtheashes (Mar 10, 2008)

Flipmode said:


> This would make sense... but unfortuantly it's not the case. He's been exposed to tons of kids since the day we brought him home from the shelter. When he was 8 weeks, like the first week we had him in the house, he nipped at my daughter. We thought he was just scared or it was an adjustment issue. But it's honestly never stopped. Just not my kids now, the other kids.


I think the quoted paragraph is critical here. I believe that there is a VERY common misconception among dog owners that goes something like "well maybe this is just a phase", or "hopefully he grows out of this". I'll be the first to admit that I am no canine behavior expert, but in my experience, a dog will never suddenly achieve enlightenment on it's own and cease practicing undesirable behaviors. You have to train them. You have to teach them to stop engaging in behaviors that are unacceptable.

A puppy is not going to stop biting on it's own, you have to stop it. My malamute puppy was 8 weeks old when we brought her home, and she was VERY mouthy and nippy. My children and I implemented Ian Dunbar's techniques (described here http://www.dogforums.com/first-time-dog-owner/8377-bite-stops-here.html ), and within a week, the nipping was almost completely stopped. This past weekend we brought her to the state fair, where she met hundreds of children, and she didn't nip a single one. She did, however, give out plenty of licks. At this point I feel perfectly safe having her around children, where only a month ago she was nipping anything she could get her teeth on. 

It sounds to me like the OP's pup has never had any bite training, and similarly also never learned to inhibit his bite. Until this dog receives such training and it "takes", I think you have to limit this dog's access to children and/or strangers.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Also I find it funny they were surprised that a puppy nips (when they first got him), they never curbed the nipping so he never realized that it was wrong. There are no pics or videos, but I suspect that the "aggression" could just be boisterous, unmanaged, big-dog play... Just saying... Not an expert, just guessing.


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## Flipmode (Feb 6, 2011)

Bear doesn't bite at his family - we did practice bite inhibition, although it was very rarely needed. Our PetSmart trainer was clear on how a dog should never use his mouth to bite/play. Bear loves his tennis ball, and we do not reach in his mouth to retrieve it. We use the "drop" command until he drops the ball at our feet. He really is a well behaved dog (besides the bites). When I said, "he's never stopped nipping" - i didn't mean he bites constantly. 

Also, I walk him for about 20-30 minutes in the morning - and a quick walk after work, as well as some fetch the tennis ball. I don't think it's enough, but I don't have time otherwise. 

My vet seems to think he's protecting his children. He has his boot camp appointment set up for this Sunday, a 3-week stay, home on weekends for practice. I'll follow up with progress.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

Boot camp worked for us -- we call our Giant Schnauzer "snapping turtle" although she tends to nip at me when she is happy to see me (excitement) vs. strangers... GOOD LUCK ... and Best Wishes for you and your Dog!


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