# When do I start using the prong collar for my GSD?



## GSDmama (Feb 14, 2007)

My GSD Troy is exactly 5 months old and he's been doing AWESOME on his choke collar. I've been training him to walk by my side on a leash and if he ever pulls I snap the leash and he heels. But when we got him in December he was 9 lbs. He is now 35 lbs and growing rapidly and getting smarter by the day. And I don't know if this is important but we got him from a police dog breeder... So I was wondering at what age or weight is ideally the best to use a prong collar?


Here are some pictures of Troy:









His bunny ears really stick out here... =]




















Here (on the left side of the picture) you can see his tat in his ear.


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## Tess&Coco (Jan 8, 2007)

I don't know anything about prong collars (and personally don't like to use choke collars) but I had to reply to say how beautiful your dog is!


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## FranMan (Jan 1, 2007)

If you are using a choke you can switch to a prong and should. Chokes are worse then a prong. There isn't a weight limit. They make mirco prong collars for super small dogs.

Read this also.
http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/fitprong.pdf

That is a good looking dog. What did the breeder say about the dog? Most police dog breeder save their "good" high drive dogs for their training programs or to sell to the police. Which is good for people that want a claim normal pet. High drive dogs can be a handful and require a lot more attention.


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## britishbandit (Dec 11, 2006)

If you train them young you should never have to resort to a prong collar for walking. Prongs and chokers are for teaching (training aids), not for long term use. And are more commonly used on adult dogs that were never taught to walk loose and heel. And are too strong and out of control to use less harsh methods. Or where the owner has tried less harsh, without success. At 5 months, your dog shouldn't be able to pull you where it is uncontrollable, and I'd suggest working hard at teaching to walk loose on a leash and heel without resorting to a prong.

You have to also realize, that the collar doesn't fix the dog. If you have to constantly "snap" and correct, you aren't doing it right. And you can't JUST correct, you have to teach where you want the dog to be, and praise when he is in that position.

Many people don't know how to properly use a prong/choker either. And prongs aren't effective if they aren't sized right either. The aren't supposed to sit low on the neck, but up high and "snuggly fit". There should also never be constant tension on the leash. I really amazes me that both prongs and chokers never come with "how to's" or instructions, especially since so many people don't use them properly. 

If you havn't taken any training classes, I'd suggest signing up now, and teach to walk nice instead of waiting and having to try and fix it. JMO.


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

Completely agree with britishbandit.


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## suze (Nov 2, 2006)

I've noticed a couple of points,

you dont state where in the world you are, but if you are in the UK, a prong cola although not illegal will get you unwanted attention from various animal charities who are trying to ban them.

The chain you have your dog wearing is too long, you should have a shorter one on if you wish to continue with a choke/check chain which needs to be higher up on the neck, and should never be worn when just lounging around the house.

Secondly, why you using a choke chain on such a young dog?

go and buy a halti head collar or a gentle leader, both will be better aids in getting your dog to heel while he so young.

last point, get into a training class as britishbandit said, you'll be amazed at some of the tricks used to teach dogs allsorts of stuff..


Final Final point.............................. Cute dog,,,, nobody gonna be able to sneak around your house without him knowing, specially with them ears


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## Meghan&Pedro (Nov 6, 2006)

First off - a choke collar is supposed to teach the dog to give to pressure, and once they have that idea down, you can go back to a nylon collar, or harness.

The choke collar is supposed to be taught when the dog is pulling, and then release as soon as the dog stops pulling - thus teaching them to give to pressure. If you're 'correcting' the dog with the choke - that's your decision, and that's OK, but *keep in mind you can NEVER correct with a prong or "pinch" collar*. You can only hold your hand steady and let the dog correct themselves when pulling against it. They will learn that it is more comfortable to walk with you than pull against you. But you can NOT 'snap' a prong collar.

A prong collar is something that i only ever recommend using if you have a trainer working with you for at least one lesson to help you size the collar properly, and show you exactly what you can and can not do with it. You can NOT jerk on a prong collar, as that is using it inhumanely. I had great sucess with my lab/shepard/rottie cross that I adopted when she was an adult. 

I used two points of contact on the dog using a European Lead (two clips on one leash). I had the leash clipped to the prong collar with one clip, and to her nylon collar with the other. I walked her on the prong collar until she learned to give to pressure, and then I started gradually switching over to her nylon collar (going back to the prong collar when she started pulling against pressure again). After a few weeks of doing this, I happily stopped using the prong, and she walked GREAT on the nylon collar.
*
If you can use a trainer, I highly recommend doing this* - as they can teach you how to properly use a prong collar, and can also help you in other areas of respect that will ALSO help with walking your dog (you have to be dominant pack leader for your dog to respect you enough to listen to you at all times, and not go 'selectively deaf' on you when they see something more interesting!)

Also keeping in mind that puppies go through their 'teenage' years starting around 8 months, so it's VERY important that you have a good basic obedience foundation with your dog, and that you stay VERY consistant throughout this time to help prevent more problems from occouring.

A lot of people do puppy obedience and then all of a sudden their 8 month old dog is all over the place and not listening - it's not the owners fault, but it is caused by them putting down their gaurd and thinking that they were done with the training.

Anyways, I've rambled quite a bit off topic - but hope you got a few good ideas 

Meghan


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## GSDmama (Feb 14, 2007)

FranMan said:


> If you are using a choke you can switch to a prong and should. Chokes are worse then a prong. There isn't a weight limit. They make mirco prong collars for super small dogs.
> 
> Read this also.
> http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/fitprong.pdf
> ...


Thanks for the compliment.  Well I am currently stationed in Japan since my husband and I are in the Army. The breeder didn't speak much English but she did say that Troy's father was about 110 lbs and his mother was about 80. Big dogs! But he is SO intelligent and learns so quickly... this is my first GSD by the way.

And to everyone else, thank you very much for your input. I have seen for my own eyes that my dog has been well trained ]. I guess my correct title should have been "should I use a prong collar" but I do correctly use the choke collar and am very proud of my little guy. Thank you for all of the replies though, I have made my decision to not use a prong collar and IF I truely need to do so or when I can understand the language of a person who knows how they properly work then I may reconsider. 



suze said:


> I've noticed a couple of points,
> 
> you dont state where in the world you are, but if you are in the UK, a prong cola although not illegal will get you unwanted attention from various animal charities who are trying to ban them.
> 
> ...



I know the chain is a bit large, we bought THREE chains because this is all we have here. The smallest wouldn't fit around his head and the other was too large and the medium sized one was the only one that fit semi correctly  It's stuff like this and being pregnant that makes me want to be back in the states so I know where to go! By the way, I am stationed in Japan. I tried ordering stuff online but since I am at an APO address it takes sometimes up to 2 months to get here, which is rediculous! In 2 months he will be 60 lbs! I'm using the choke collar on my pup basically for walking or when we are outside. When he is inside I take it off and he gets to be "nakey". I believe it's been working out perfectly fine for him though. And those ears of his!! He can hear ANYTHING. I try to walk into the kitchen at night for water and he's awake and standing up in his crate before I get into that side of the house. What a good guard dog haha!


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