# Picky eater



## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

Hi all,

Sending SOS to everyone! Lexy (westiepoo) 7 month old. She's a picky eater. I don't know how else to describe her. She loses interested in food very fast. So history of what she's taken before.
0) ANF for puppy (breeder)
1) Orijen for puppy
2) Acana for puppy
3) TOTW for puppy

I had Lexy when she was 2 month old. Started with feeding her ANF for 3 weeks plus before transitioning her over to Orijen. All this problem started when she was around 3 month old when she got sick. As she lost her appetite and also on doc request. We gave her boiled chicken meat with kibbles (Orijen). Doc says it's best to hand feed the meds to her (but as we are first time owner) we can try to put it in the kibbles and let her eat it.

Anyway, once she recovered, she dislike Orijen. She would rather starve unless of course you add fish oil to the kibbles. After 1 month, I notice that she keeps scratching herself and realize that she has red dots on her body. Went to the vet and Doc told me it's not allergy. So decided to change the food to Acana (don't shoot me but friend told me her's was having the same problem - due to high protein in Orijen).

Hence, I switch. Same thing happen, 1.5 week on pure kibble. Then rejecting food. Had to add flavoring (salmon oil etc). Anyway, I switch to TOTW because having problem buying Acana locally. The cycle repeats itself. Currently, adding wet food (Cesar) to the kibbles. She doesn't really finish her food every meal. I'm afraid history is going to repeat itself.

Note : 
* Doc confirm she is healthy. No sickness. She gave some vit for Lexy - didnt help.
* I've tried a method introduce by someone in another forum. Give the food; wait 15 mins and throw the food away. Doesn't really work. She's on strike for 2 days (6 meals) before I give in.
* She is very active and looks like she is healthy as a cow. (puppy). She's on the skinnier side as ever since I have her, she is not food motivated. She eats till she is full and will stop eating kibbles and treats.
* Tried adding water, yogurt, salmon oil, nutri-gel (some kind of vit B - for appetite). 

Do hope someone can share with me what I can do. I don't think it's healthy to keep feeding her new kibbles every 2-3 weeks.


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## PyrettaBlaze (Nov 2, 2012)

Have you considered a raw diet? 

I had major problems with Harley concerning food. He was started on Pedigree kibble and every time we tried to switch foods he would throw it all back up. It happened every meal no matter what we tried (mixing the food to change over slowly, going cold turkey, etc.). The vet couldn't find anything wrong with him. Finally I decided to try going raw and he hasn't had a problem since.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

Sounds like she has you trained pretty well  She's learning if she starts to hold out, you will up the ante and make her food more interesting. It happens to the best of us (I'm guilty here too!) I just know that we made a fussy eater into a diva by doing exactly what you are doing. If I could go back, I'd do tough love and if Loki didn't eat for 4 days.. so be it. It hurts us MUCH more to see them not eat then for them. 

We are now feeding raw and it's going great.. but if you want to stick with kibble, then pick a flavour/brand and stick with it.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

PyrettaBlaze said:


> Have you considered a raw diet?
> 
> I had major problems with Harley concerning food. He was started on Pedigree kibble and every time we tried to switch foods he would throw it all back up. It happened every meal no matter what we tried (mixing the food to change over slowly, going cold turkey, etc.). The vet couldn't find anything wrong with him. Finally I decided to try going raw and he hasn't had a problem since.


I've actually thought about it. Still debating and researching as this is a new thing for me.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

Loki Love said:


> Sounds like she has you trained pretty well  She's learning if she starts to hold out, you will up the ante and make her food more interesting. It happens to the best of us (I'm guilty here too!) I just know that we made a fussy eater into a diva by doing exactly what you are doing. If I could go back, I'd do tough love and if Loki didn't eat for 4 days.. so be it. It hurts us MUCH more to see them not eat then for them.
> 
> We are now feeding raw and it's going great.. but if you want to stick with kibble, then pick a flavour/brand and stick with it.


Lol.. I'm guilty of that. Honestly!!! It's tough to make the first move. But I managed to start doing it. But just wondering if that happens to everyone. So far, she is doing well with TOTW (no scratching or soft poo) and currently on my 3rd packet. Did waste a lot of food but I do think it's worth it. I'm just worried that if she will rather starve literally to death (most probably wont happen, but she is a stubborn little devil - my devil) - first time mom; so maybe I worry to much.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

jcloh86 said:


> first time mom; so maybe I worry to much.


I get that. Loki was our first dog and we were so panicky when he didn't eat. It still bothers us 3 years later when he decides to skip meals, but we have finally learned it's part of his character (and we helped create that! LOL)


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

Loki Love said:


> I get that. Loki was our first dog and we were so panicky when he didn't eat. It still bothers us 3 years later when he decides to skip meals, but we have finally learned it's part of his character (and we helped create that! LOL)


Yes.. i agree. I sometimes tends to panic but I'm currently learning. I keep a food journal for Lexy, so I can detect a pattern. Which leads me to my next question. Is the scenario below normal?

According to the breeder and TOTW feeding chart (3/4 - 1 1/3 cup a day), I'm feeding Lexy 1/3 (3.5 spoon) cup per meal. However, she has this pattern. Morning she takes roughly 1.5 - 2 spoon (no matter the amount I give her, she will leave 0.5spoon in the bowl), Lunch normally varies from 2 - 3 spoons. And for dinner, she will finish all her kibbles (3.5 spoon).


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

My dogs generally ate about half the amount suggested on the bag. If she isn't skinny then she is doing just fine. I would try giving her the amount she will eat so she gets used to cleaning her bowl. Then you can sneak in an extra kibble at the meal she is hungriest, then two - if she is skinny.

If I am counting the spoons correctly she is eating about 3/4 of a cup per day? That is quite a lot for a small dog. Many eat less than 1/2 cup a day.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

jcloh86 said:


> I don't think it's healthy to keep feeding her new kibbles every 2-3 weeks.


It's more unhealthy on your wallet than your dog assuming no real food sensitivities. 
Plus eventually you're going to run out of new foods to try.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

Kathyy said:


> My dogs generally ate about half the amount suggested on the bag. If she isn't skinny then she is doing just fine. I would try giving her the amount she will eat so she gets used to cleaning her bowl. Then you can sneak in an extra kibble at the meal she is hungriest, then two - if she is skinny.
> 
> If I am counting the spoons correctly she is eating about 3/4 of a cup per day? That is quite a lot for a small dog. Many eat less than 1/2 cup a day.


She is 4.9kg (10lbs). Feeding guide says 1 1/3 - 2 1/2 cups. But I will try. Yup.. she is taking roughly 3/4 cups a day. She use to take 1 cup per day. Not anymore. I think for Malaysian standard; she is to the skinnier side. Gonna try and see if I can find a pic of her.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

zhaor said:


> It's more unhealthy on your wallet than your dog assuming no real food sensitivities.
> Plus eventually you're going to run out of new foods to try.


That is what I fear. I'm trying the "tough love" but I don't think it's going very well. But I'll monitor cos it's heartbreaking for me to see her not eating and yes!!! for my wallet to. So far seeing she is doing very well on TOTW compare to the rest of the brand I've tried. I'm sticking to you.


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

I had a boxer who trained me this way many years ago. Finally, I got some tough love on a boxer forum and took their advice. I picked a food that I knew was good, left it down for 15 minutes, then took up what wasn't eaten after that time. I feed twice a day, so the dog was offered food every 12 hours. You should be doing the same for your puppy. It took 3 days, but after that, Duke was more than happy to eat! I've treated all dogs I've had since then the same way, and they all do the happy dance at meal times! I also rehabbed my MIL's cockapoo before rehoming her (she was used to eating boiled chicken and Milk Bones at my MIL's house), using the same method. She absolutely refused the high grade kibble I offered, for 3 days, then started eating like crazy. 

3 days seems to be the magic number - after that, hunger gets the best of them! Just remember, a healthy dog won't starve itself. Oh, and another FYI: no treats during the re-education process! If you allow treats, then the dog never really gets hungry enough.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

georgiapeach said:


> I had a boxer who trained me this way many years ago. Finally, I got some tough love on a boxer forum and took their advice. I picked a food that I knew was good, left it down for 15 minutes, then took up what wasn't eaten after that time. I feed twice a day, so the dog was offered food every 12 hours. You should be doing the same for your puppy. It took 3 days, but after that, Duke was more than happy to eat! I've treated all dogs I've had since then the same way, and they all do the happy dance at meal times! I also rehabbed my MIL's cockapoo before rehoming her (she was used to eating boiled chicken and Milk Bones at my MIL's house), using the same method. She absolutely refused the high grade kibble I offered, for 3 days, then started eating like crazy.
> 
> 3 days seems to be the magic number - after that, hunger gets the best of them! Just remember, a healthy dog won't starve itself. Oh, and another FYI: no treats during the re-education process! If you allow treats, then the dog never really gets hungry enough.


Lol.. Maybe what I needed was a little more patient. Thanks for the tips.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

Does she looks thin to you?


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

She looks lean but not in an unhealthy way. My dog was twice her size (20lbs) and ate 1 cup a day so if she is content with a smaller amount and isn't losing weight I wouldn't be too worried. I know several corgis who are 25-30lbs and get 3/4 cup of kibble a day. Every dog is different of course.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I'd say she looks a little on the thin side, but not to the point of being unhealthy.

Especially if there is no rhyme or reason to her refusing food (e.g. base protein, grain-inclusive vs. grain-free), tough love is the way to go. For us, Snowball didn't like lamb-based kibble, but we switched over to salmon-based and now he's all over it.


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## WestieLove (Jan 29, 2012)

I have an 11 month old Westie who is a picky eater herself. For her, I would put the food down only for so long and then pick it back up. This worked to an extent because she would eat, just not a lot. I found she just didn't really enjoy the food. She was a good eater on Royal Canin Mini (from the breeder) but anything else she would pick at. It didn't matter if it was chicken, lamb, salmon... 
Right now I have her on Natures Variety Instinct kibble duck and turkey and she LOVES it. Inhales it all. I don't have to worry about picking her food up after 20 minutes because its gone. I think its the freeze dried raw coating that she loves, makes it highly patable. I refuse to give into her and add water, canned food etc. 

I also have a 6 year old Westie who'd always been a picky eater. He got spoiled having wet food added to his meals majority of his life. I don't recommend this (spoiled him too much... he won't eat just dry food now) but we rotate through different protein sources of canned to keep him interested. He also stops eating well if he isn't exercised enough or if he's getting bored with his routine. 

I would start by leaving the food down for only 20 minutes and picking it back up twiec daily and try getting her interacting more - take her new places, doggie playdates etc. they need an interesting life too.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

Gally said:


> She looks lean but not in an unhealthy way. My dog was twice her size (20lbs) and ate 1 cup a day so if she is content with a smaller amount and isn't losing weight I wouldn't be too worried. I know several corgis who are 25-30lbs and get 3/4 cup of kibble a day. Every dog is different of course.


After reading comments from all of you, I've reduced her food intake. Apparently she can't grow any fatter =D A little more meat in her body and I will be happy. Everytime I go out, ppl tell me I should feed my pup more (giving me evil eyes like I'm starving my baby).. I'll keep monitoring.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> I'd say she looks a little on the thin side, but not to the point of being unhealthy.
> 
> Especially if there is no rhyme or reason to her refusing food (e.g. base protein, grain-inclusive vs. grain-free), tough love is the way to go. For us, Snowball didn't like lamb-based kibble, but we switched over to salmon-based and now he's all over it.


My vet says she looks healthy however unable to comment on the ideal weight of a westiepoo. Hopefully a little tough love will get her on the right track.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

That feeding guide seems way off. My active, 43lb border collie gets 2-2.5 cups of TOTW daily. 

I'd personally go with the tough love approach, and it sounds like reducing the amount fed was also a good move.

Try not to stress over the comments people make on your dog's weight.  People are accustomed to seeing fat dogs. If your vet says she's healthy and she's not begging for more food, she's fine.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> I'd say she looks a little on the thin side, but not to the point of being unhealthy.
> 
> Especially if there is no rhyme or reason to her refusing food (e.g. base protein, grain-inclusive vs. grain-free), tough love is the way to go. For us, Snowball didn't like lamb-based kibble, but we switched over to salmon-based and now he's all over it.


My vet says she looks healthy however unable to comment on the ideal weight of a westiepoo as it's her first case. Hopefully a little tough love will get her on the right track.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> That feeding guide seems way off. My active, 43lb border collie gets 2-2.5 cups of TOTW daily.
> 
> I'd personally go with the tough love approach, and it sounds like reducing the amount fed was also a good move.
> 
> Try not to stress over the comments people make on your dog's weight.  People are accustomed to seeing fat dogs. If your vet says she's healthy and she's not begging for more food, she's fine.


Thanks for you remark. It puts a smile on my face. Appreciate it.


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## WestieLove (Jan 29, 2012)

Your veterinarian shouldn't have a hard time telling if your dog is of an ideal weight or over/under using a body condition score system. I don't like judging a dog by a ideal weight for a particular breed because sometimes those dogs fall outside those ranges (as I know quite a few Westies who do but are a perfectly healthy ideal body condition). Evaluate your dog as an individual and if your veterinarian says she falls into a 3/5 or a 4-5/9 (there are two different systems a 5 point and a 9 point) on a body condition score then she is a healthy weight. 

Here's how you can tell if your dog is at an ideal body condition
"- Rib Check: Place both of your thumbs on your dog's backbone and spread both hands across his rib cage. You want to be able to feel his ribs. Actually feeling your dog is important, as the coat of many dogs will make a visual check difficult.
- Profile Check: Examine your dog's profile – it’s best if you are level with your dog. Look for the abdomen to be tucked up behind his rib cage - this is ideal.
- Overhead Check: Looking at your dog from overhead, identify whether you can see a waist behind his ribs. Most dogs at a healthy weight should have an hourglass figure."
---Purina website

Body Condition Scoring Chat by Purina Veterinary Diets - http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/resources/files/Dog_Chart.pdf

Although it does seem like a lot of food for a little dog, she may seem like a picky eater because she is self regulating her caloric intake. She just may not be hungry enough to eat that much food. Overeating can cause them to feel uncomfortable. Some dogs are simply grazers. The suggested feeding amounts on bags always give a larger amount then what the dog actually needs which can lead to over feeding. 

I would use something like this to calculate your dogs needs. You take the weight of your dog, how active they are and the calorie/cup or calorie/kg (information can be found on your dogs bag of food) to calculate roughly how much they should be eating. This is a much better starting point. You can adjust as necessary. -- http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/

Edit: Forgot to post the last link for the calculator. Ha! I think that means I need sleep but my shift is not over.


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## jcloh86 (Nov 28, 2012)

WestieLove said:


> Your veterinarian shouldn't have a hard time telling if your dog is of an ideal weight or over/under using a body condition score system. I don't like judging a dog by a ideal weight for a particular breed because sometimes those dogs fall outside those ranges (as I know quite a few Westies who do but are a perfectly healthy ideal body condition). Evaluate your dog as an individual and if your veterinarian says she falls into a 3/5 or a 4-5/9 (there are two different systems a 5 point and a 9 point) on a body condition score then she is a healthy weight.
> 
> Here's how you can tell if your dog is at an ideal body condition
> "- Rib Check: Place both of your thumbs on your dog's backbone and spread both hands across his rib cage. You want to be able to feel his ribs. Actually feeling your dog is important, as the coat of many dogs will make a visual check difficult.
> ...


Thanks for the chart. I believe Lexy is a 4.
As for the calculator, it says she should eat 1.02 cups a day. TOTW bag show 3/4 - 1 cup. I've been monitoring her eating style for 2 months. Basically, 

Morning - 1.5s - 2.0s max 
Lunch - 0.5s - 1.0s max
Dinner - 3.5s max (I try not to give 4s)
(I do feed her with a bit of wet food as flavoring. The wet food is heated up as I normally keep the wet food in the fridge)


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