# Breeding 13 year old stud?



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Is it unusual for a breeder to breed 12-13 year old stud dogs? 
The breeder has all the health clearances and health checks on the dog.

Is there an age usually when males are retired?


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Nope not unusual. There's AI and lots of ways to get litters out of old studs. In some ways it's actually good because you know a lot of the dog's life and know something like PRA didn't pop up at 6 years (just example).


----------



## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

It's more unusual than it should be, IMO- a dog who is still sound and healthy at 13 is a GREAT stud dog candidate if semen's been saved and everything else that a responsible breeder would normally do is done.


----------



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

There's a woman at my kennel club that just bred her 13 year old Ch male Keeshsond. Her bitch is expecting at least 5 puppies.

Asko von der Lutter sired his last litter as a live cover and he was 12 or 13 years old


----------



## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Sounds like men...they can breed forever. Women, well we know how that goes!


----------



## MafiaPrincess (Jul 1, 2009)

Smudge's sire was 12, live cover. I was happy to know he was still sound, happy, healthy and loving life at 12 with no problems.

I know of too many people who like to breed as young as possible and rehome their breeding adults early so they can plug their ears and say their lines are healthy. If you don't know about it it doesn't exist.. eww.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> Sounds like men...they can breed forever. Women, well we know how that goes!


Well, men may be able to breed forever, but actually, the risks (for the child, obviously not for the man) go up a lot the older the father is. Austism, premature birth, bipolar disorder, limb defects, risk of miscarriage and other issues.


----------



## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Shell said:


> Well, men may be able to breed forever, but actually, the risks (for the child, obviously not for the man) go up a lot the older the father is. Austism, premature birth, bipolar disorder, limb defects, risk of miscarriage and other issues.


It was meant as a joking dig to the males on this forum, not as a medical statement.  I doubt that many bitches are bred at the ripe old age of 13...


----------



## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Is it unusual for a breeder to breed 12-13 year old stud dogs?
> The breeder has all the health clearances and health checks on the dog.
> 
> Is there an age usually when males are retired?


If the dog is sound, I like the idea of using older stud dogs. They breed known longevity and staying power.


----------



## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Shell said:


> Well, men may be able to breed forever, but actually, the risks (for the child, obviously not for the man) go up a lot the older the father is. Austism, premature birth, bipolar disorder, limb defects, risk of miscarriage and other issues.


This is pretty much 100% false. The things you attributed to paternal age are all actually associated with maternal age. I can give you an extremely detailed explanation why if you so choose, but the age of a father has absolutely no genetic bearing on the health of his offspring according to modern genetics.


----------



## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Keep in mind that with the AKC, at least, that older studs need a letter from the vet saying the sperm was viable for the pups to be registered.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> It was meant as a joking dig to the males on this forum, not as a medical statement.


Oh yeah, I know, but it made me wonder if the effects of human age follows through the same with dogs.



> This is pretty much 100% false. The things you attributed to paternal age are all actually associated with maternal age. I can give you an extremely detailed explanation why if you so choose, but the age of a father has absolutely no genetic bearing on the health of his offspring according to modern genetics.


I have been reading studies from the past couple years that are changing this. Many are showing that the risks from older fathers are separate and distinct from the risks of older mothers. Plenty of it needs further study, but there are British, American, and Australian peer-reviewed studies that agree with me.


----------



## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Shell said:


> I have been reading studies from the past couple years that are changing this. Many are showing that the risks from older fathers are separate and distinct from the risks of older mothers. Plenty of it needs further study, but there are British, American, and Australian peer-reviewed studies that agree with me.


Mind tossing me a citation to that? I keep pretty up date on the new stuff coming out in the field, and this has escaped my notice. I'd like to read it.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Trumpetjock:

Autism Research

Australian study

NY Times summary of Swedish study

General discussion article

I know I've seen a few more, but I don't have any research access at home. My take on it is there is still a lot of correlation vs causation debate, but that newer studies are starting to lean towards the conclusion that older fatherhood has its risks too.


----------



## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Shell said:


> Trumpetjock:
> 
> Autism Research
> 
> ...


Good links. The 2nd study was pretty poorly designed though, and isn't of much worth in my opinion. Intelligence is a really bad thing to try to measure in a developing child, as it has changing environmental variables which were not corrected for. The 3rd was the best of the lot, very strong data and well done. 

Thanks for the links to that. It's all really new stuff and I'm still pretty skeptical of it, but it will be interesting to see where it all goes in the next few years.


----------



## EskieLuv (Jan 22, 2021)

GypsyJazmine said:


> Keep in mind that with the AKC, at least, that older studs need a letter from the vet saying the sperm was viable for the pups to be registered.


Huh? Isn’t the existence of the pup proof that the sperm was viable?


----------



## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

I assume it's some kind of measure to prevent scams where someone's trying to register a litter under the older sire when the father of the puppies was really a different dog. However, that might have changed since this thread is nearly 11 years old at this point. I'm closing it to further replies to prevent confusion, since most people who've replied aren't around anymore. Feel free to join more recent discussions and posts threads of your own, though, and welcome!


----------

