# Need a Responsible Cavachon Breeder



## crawas

Hello,

I have been doing tons of research trying to find a reputable cavachon breeder. all i keep finding are websites like greenfield puppies, cavachons by design, cavachons from monarchy.....does anyone here have any suggestions? i really do not want to get from an irresponsible breeder or a puppy mill. Thanks


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## Francl27

You won't find a responsible breeder breeding a mix.


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## crawas

so i shouldnt get this breed at all? people rave about this breed and i feel its a perfect fit for my family. what do you recommend?


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## Francl27

It's not a breed - it's a mix. The dogs can have characteristics of either breed, and considering that most breeders who breed those don't bother with testing or picking dogs with good temperament, you can typically get anything.

Research cavaliers and bichons.


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## crawas

i have been non stop researching the breeds for a while, but for some reason im set on this mix. is there no place to get a cavachon without supporting puppy mills or irresponsible breeding? i spoke to some breeders that sound pretty knowledgeable and professional, but you never know what someone is hiding. i just dont want to do the wrong thing.


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## Effisia

Everyone has a differing definition of "responsible breeder." I wouldn't say there are NO responsible breeders breeding mixes, but it's definitely a lot harder to find mix breeders who are up to my personal standards. Cavachons especially might be a problem because there are a LOT of health issues with Cavaliers and it's going to be tough to find a breeder who does all the necessary health tests AND has health testing on the other cavs in the dog's pedigree. And no, you aren't necessarily going to avoid those issues because of "hybrid vigor".

What is it about a cavachon that draws you to that particular mix?


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## crawas

easily trained. good temperament. we absolutely love the cavalier king charles but we cant deal with shedding, so this seemed like the next best option.

what do you mean by hybrid vigor?


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## Effisia

Hybrid vigor is a belief that, basically, a mix dog is going to be healthier than a purebred based solely on the fact that it's a mix and there's more genetic variation. But the problem is, if you're starting out with two poorly breed dog with a long line of health issues, the offspring aren't necessarily going to be healthier than the offspring of well bred purebred dogs just by virtue of being a mix. So while in some cases it may be true, I think it's very tricky to use as an argument when the mix isn't necessarily starting out with healthy dogs. I tend to view more of a dog by dog basis than an overarching theory kind of view when I'm looking at getting a dog.

ANYway, you're also not going to be guaranteed a non-shedding dog. Usually with first generation mixes, some of the puppies will take on the non-shedding breed's coat, some will take the shedding breed's coat, and some will get a hybrid mix of both that the groomers I know just absolutely hate. If you're looking to definitely have a non-shedding dog, I would HIGHLY recommend looking at a purebred non-shedding breed OR going through a rescue and finding an older dog that is past their puppy coat so you know exactly what you're getting in terms of coat (and temperament).


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## crawas

which purebred dog would you recommend similar to the cavachon? i have 5 kids at home with some being under 2, so bringing home a rescue doesnt sit well with me because i can never know the history and if there is any aggression. am i crazy?


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## Lillith

Agree with others, you aren't likely to find a truly reputable Cavachon breeder, because cavachons aren't really a breed. They're a mix. A mutt that has been given a fancy name so people will be more likely to buy it. And with a mix, things like the amount of shedding or temperament are completely up in the air. Just because one of the breeds in the mix does not shed does not mean that the mix itself isn't going to shed...

I don't want to say that all mixed-breed breeders are disreputable...but I think most are. They're typically in it for the money and don't care much about the soundness of their breeding stock. What you should look for is a breeder who proves her breeding stock are worthy of breeding in some way, such as doing therapy work, obedience, agility, something. If you go with a mixed breed, they won't do conformation because conformation is for purebreds only, since they can be held to a breed standard, but there are plenty of other venues mixed breeds can participate in. You should go with a breeder who health tests and can provide OFA records, not just a vet's health certificate. This is especially important with Cavaliers, because health issues are rampant in that breed. Dogs should be raised in the home, not in a large kennel facility. You should be able to meet at least the mother dog. Breeders should demonstrate they have a puppy socialization program. Breeders should provide a health guarantee of at least 2 years, and, most importantly (I think) they should stipulate in their contract that they will take the puppy back if for some reason you can't care for it.

Avoid breeders who do not health test the parents of their puppies. Avoid breeders who say their stock has champion bloodlines but their own dogs have no titles to their name. Avoid breeders who charge more money for certain colors. Avoid breeders who breed more than one breed.

Also watch out for brokers. Those are the 'face' of the operations, and although they may make it seem like the puppies are raised in a home, they are typically raised in a puppy mill kennel facility and only trotted out for potential customers.

And, of course there are the BYB who breed their dogs because they're nice and they want to make a little extra money on the side. Generally pretty innocent, but I guess personally I don't really want to be spending $1,000 plus on a puppy that no real thought has gone into when there are millions of pets in need of homes in shelters. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I will be supporting a breeder who cares for their dogs and puts countless hours of thought into their lines and how to better their breed.

There are plenty of actual breeds that meet those requirements and don't shed. Bichon, Havanese, miniature poodle, maltese, lhasa apso, shi tzu. It's never easy to find a reputable breeder, but I think looking at breeds rather than "designer dogs" will help your search greatly!


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## crawas

any thoughts on greenfield puppies?


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## crawas

we are also looking for a dog that wouldnt mind being left in his/her crate for 1-2 hours a day......sometimes the house gets very busy and the dog would need to be in a safe place while attending to homework etc...


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## crawas

a shihtzu was one of the dogs on our list......where would i find a reputable breeder for a shihtzu?


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## Effisia

Greenfield is a puppy broker, I believe. Which is just a middleman for puppy mills. I would definitely advise staying FAR away.

Lillith mentioned some great breeds. I had a mini poodle growing up who was WONDERFUL and I've been looking at a Havanese for my mother and they are nice, sturdy little dogs. They seem to be really popular around my area at the moment. 

Most dogs and puppies won't have a problem with 1-2 hours in a crate, though for any puppy you get you should do crate training to make sure the crate is an enjoyable and nice place that the dog doesn't mind being in.


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## Lillith

crawas said:


> any thoughts on greenfield puppies?


That is a puppy mill. So, so much a puppy mill, or a broker (think middle man) for puppy mills at the very least. Here are some red flags:

1. Numerous breeds. Way to many.

2. "...designer breeds and more." No.

3. 30 day health guarantee. That is not much. Most genetic issues pop up around 2 years old, which is why reputable breeders offer a 2 year health guarantee, typically.

4. The repeated "customer testimonial" that this is not a puppy mill. Lol.

5. From the websites FAQ page, under "Are we a puppy mill?" :


> If we find a breeder to be in violation of state breeding laws, we will discontinue advertising for that breeder.


 State laws are woefully inadequate for dog breeding. As long as their cages are clean, they are fed, watered, and sheltered, its fine. Dogs are social creatures and need special attention paid to their early socialization. No state laws regulate the temperament or care that goes into choosing breeding stock.

Just...so, so many red flags. I absolutely would not go there for a puppy.


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## Effisia

crawas said:


> a shihtzu was one of the dogs on our list......where would i find a reputable breeder for a shihtzu?


For any purebred dog that you're looking at, the breed club is the best place to start for finding a reputable breeder. I believe for the Shih Tzu it's the American Shih Tzu Club (http://shihtzu.org)


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## crawas

i found a breeder that seems to check off all the requirements you mentioned. they have a 2 year health guarantee, they take the puppy back if it cant be cared for, they only breed with vet checked healthy dogs (bichon is the mom and cavalier is the dad), they do bio sensory excercises from early on and the pups are socialized in the home as well.


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## crawas

Lillith said:


> That is a puppy mill. So, so much a puppy mill, or a broker (think middle man) for puppy mills at the very least. Here are some red flags:
> 
> 1. Numerous breeds. Way to many.
> 
> 2. "...designer breeds and more." No.
> 
> 3. 30 day health guarantee. That is not much. Most genetic issues pop up around 2 years old, which is why reputable breeders offer a 2 year health guarantee, typically.
> 
> 4. The repeated "customer testimonial" that this is not a puppy mill. Lol.
> 
> 5. From the websites FAQ page, under "Are we a puppy mill?" : State laws are woefully inadequate for dog breeding. As long as their cages are clean, they are fed, watered, and sheltered, its fine. Dogs are social creatures and need special attention paid to their early socialization. No state laws regulate the temperament or care that goes into choosing breeding stock.
> 
> Just...so, so many red flags. I absolutely would not go there for a puppy.


ok you made that decision very easy. Thanks!!


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## Effisia

crawas said:


> i found a breeder that seems to check off all the requirements you mentioned. they have a 2 year health guarantee, they take the puppy back if it cant be cared for, they only breed with vet checked healthy dogs (bichon is the mom and cavalier is the dad), they do bio sensory excercises from early on and the pups are socialized in the home as well.


"Vet checked" is usually not up to my personal standard of reputable breeder. I would want OFA records on health testing for both parents, especially the Cavalier.

Here are the recommended heath tests for a cavalier: Cavalier

And here are the ones for a Bichon: Bichon


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## Lillith

What's the website?

Also, like I mentioned before, there is not guarantee a mixed breed is non-shedding, since that is one of their requirements.

And vet checked means very little. You want OFA health records, searchable by breeder name, I think. https://www.ofa.org
You can even check which screenings your puppy's parents should have. For Cavs, once again, screening is so very important because dogs have died very young because of them!


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## crawas

cavachonsfromthemonarchy.com


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## Lillith

crawas said:


> cavachonsfromthemonarchy.com


Red Flags:

1.


> In addition to cavachon puppies in Massachusetts, we have very special and exceptional cavachon puppies for sale in CT and New York.


 Possibly a broker.

2. Its a mix. Not necessarily hypoallergenic or non-shedding, as this site claims:


> Hallmarks of a Cavachon include a soft, fluffy, hypoallergenic coat, along with an irresistible, sweet, friendly, lovable and intelligent nature.


3.


> Being true hybrids, the offspring of royally bred Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and superb Bichon Frises, The Monarchy's Cavachons are known for their healthy vigor, not the congenital and structural defects so common in many purebred animals.


 It is not true that purebreds are automatically less healthy because of "structural defects" and no reputable breeder would claim as such. 

4. They say they have champion bloodlines, but provide no evidence that their breeding stock is titled. Typically, you will at least see photos of them receiving awards, and upon request the breeder should be able to prove their dogs are titled, and, in fact, from champion bloodlines.

5. They do say they health test, but I'm not seeing a name to look up the records. Just because they SAY they health test does not mean they actually do it. You want to see the records.

6. They just...sell puppies. A good breeder will ask you about your home and lifestyle, and they will typically select a puppy that fits your family the best because they truly care about their dogs and want them to go to the best home. This one just wants you submit your buyer agreement and deposit and they'll send you a puppy. The lack of news about upcoming litters indicates that they always have puppies available, as well. Good breeders typically have 1 litter per year in order to give the mother plenty of time to recuperate, as well as dedicate enough time to the litter.

So...another no.


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## Effisia

Lillith said:


> Red Flags:
> 
> 1. Possibly a broker.
> 
> 2. Its a mix. Not necessarily hypoallergenic or non-shedding, as this site claims:
> 
> 3. It is not true that purebreds are automatically less healthy because of "structural defects" and no reputable breeder would claim as such.
> 
> 4. They say they have champion bloodlines, but provide no evidence that their breeding stock is titled. Typically, you will at least see photos of them receiving awards, and upon request the breeder should be able to prove their dogs are titled, and, in fact, from champion bloodlines.
> 
> 5. They do say they health test, but I'm not seeing a name to look up the records. Just because they SAY they health test does not mean they actually do it. You want to see the records.
> 
> 6. They just...sell puppies. A good breeder will ask you about your home and lifestyle, and they will typically select a puppy that fits your family the best because they truly care about their dogs and want them to go to the best home. This one just wants you submit your buyer agreement and deposit and they'll send you a puppy. The lack of news about upcoming litters indicates that they always have puppies available, as well. Good breeders typically have 1 litter per year in order to give the mother plenty of time to recuperate, as well as dedicate enough time to the litter.
> 
> So...another no.


They also have a LOT of litters (three on the ground with two more due soon!). And good GRAVY are those puppies expensive!


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## Lillith

Effisia said:


> They also have a LOT of litters (three on the ground with two more due soon!). And good GRAVY are those puppies expensive!


Oh, I completely missed that page! But yeah, holy moly! Puppy mill, for sure! They cannot possibly socialize and dedicate time to that many puppies at one time. Those poor mommas are probably constantly bred.

Oh, and the $1,500 accelerated training program. What a joke!


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## Shell

Without even knowing this thread had been posted, nor the breeders mentioned by the OP, I responded to their PM about cavachons and the red flags I expected I see turned out correct....


"Reputable cavachon breeder is like finding a needle in a haystack. Somewhere one probably exists but you'd have to dig through piles and piles to find one.
Cavaliers have many serious health problems and are a breed that particularly requires health testing and study of genetic lines (parents, grandparents, great grands, etc) to avoid diseases like MVD and syringomyelia. Very few designer dog breeders do anywhere near the testing they should if they even test or study the lineage at all.

Designer mixes also tend to make claims of hypoallergenic traits which does not really work that way unless both breeds are hypoallergenic.

I suggest looking for a good breed of Bichons, Maltese, Havanese or other small companion breed and steer clear of trendy (and profitable) mixes where so few breeders are doing their due diligence"


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## LittleFr0g

> i found a breeder that seems to check off all the requirements you mentioned. they have a 2 year health guarantee, they take the puppy back if it cant be cared for, they only breed with vet checked healthy dogs (bichon is the mom and cavalier is the dad), they do bio sensory excercises from early on and the pups are socialized in the home as well.


As has been mentioned already, vet checked means nothing, all it means is the dogs were healthy at the time of breeding. It does nothing to ensure they aren't passing on hereditary conditions onto their offspring. You need genetic testing for that. Also, MOST hereditary conditions don't show up until a dog is at LEAST 2 years old, so a 2 year health guarantee is actually pretty worthless. I'd be asking that breeder specifically what tests they do and request documentation to prove it. Any reputable breeder would be more than happy to provide you with documentation of their dogs' health tests. And yeah, definitely some red flags on that site. There's no way they can be providing adequate socialization with that many pups on the ground, and the number of locations they operate ... BIG red flags.


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## crawas

wow thanks so much guys!! i appreciate all the input. the red flags you are presenting definitely make sense and im so lost with what to do because we had our heart set on that mix. i asked the breeder for what kind of testing they do and she is forwarding me all the specialist statements about the parent dogs, so at least thats something. she spent an hour on the phone with me last night explaining about the different responsibilities to make sure i was really ready for a puppy, so it wasnt just a sign and deposit, but the other items you bring up definitely make sense. what do i do if she send me specialist statements?


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## crawas

i think bichons are too fluffy for me! havanese and shihtzu look very up my alley!! where do i go for reputable breeders for those breeds?


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## crawas

well i got eye, patella, and heart reports for each parent dog. i sent the breeder a list of the OFA testing requirements for both the cavalier and the bichon and she said she tests for each and every one except for the hip because her vet doesnt feel its a risk for her dog. i really want to believe she is not a mill lol!


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## Lillith

You don't have to do anything with any information they send you. Remember, these people are excellent at disguising their 'business' as a legitimate, non-puppy mill practice. They're in it for a sale, and they'll try just about anything to get you to buy one of their puppies. I would be highly suspicious of any documentation they send you. I would rather be able to look it up on OFA website where they can't fudge results.

You can start on the breed clubs websites. Havanese: https://www.havanese.org/breeder-directory and Shih Tzu: https://shihtzu.org

You will still have to do a bit of research on the breeder, but its a good place to start looking for something that isn't a puppy mill.


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## ManyDogsok

Lillith said:


> You don't have to do anything with any information they send you. Remember, these people are excellent at disguising their 'business' as a legitimate, non-puppy mill practice. They're in it for a sale, and they'll try just about anything to get you to buy one of their puppies. I would be highly suspicious of any documentation they send you. I would rather be able to look it up on OFA website where they can't fudge results.
> 
> You can start on the breed clubs websites. Havanese: https://www.havanese.org/breeder-directory and Shih Tzu: https://shihtzu.org
> 
> You will still have to do a bit of research on the breeder, but its a good place to start looking for something that isn't a puppy mill.


I just looked at the Havanese site and one of the very first things that catches your eye is something very handy! Questions to ask any breeder you are interested in
https://www.havanese.org/images/documents/HCABreederRefQs.pdf


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## crawas

i was browsing the havanese site and found a breeder that seemed to have one litter to many, so how do you know anything is reliable!! what are other breeds similar to cavachon? my heart is really set on this mix


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## Crantastic

If you have your heart set on this mix, check PetFinder.com for a rescue. At least this way you won't be giving money to an irresponsible breeder.


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## Lillith

crawas said:


> i was browsing the havanese site and found a breeder that seemed to have one litter to many, so how do you know anything is reliable!! what are other breeds similar to cavachon? my heart is really set on this mix


One litter more isn't a huge deal. As long as it isn't on the same mother dog. Sometimes breeders might co-own dogs with other people, and perhaps a different household is taking care of that litter. Its when they CONSTANTLY have litters on the ground or one mother is producing more than one litter a year that you really get suspicious. And sometimes even good breeders have accidents and a mother gets bred accidentally, or they come into heat earlier than expected. It doesn't hurt to ask.

But, yeah, if you really have your heart set on a mix, go to a shelter, because you are highly unlikely to find one that is not from a puppy mill. And there is really not breed standard for a cavachon, because they are not a breed and have no breed standard. The best anyone can recommend is other small companion breeds, which are probably the most likely to be similar.


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## Francl27

Again, most 'cavachons' will not be hypoallergenic... they'd have to be 3rd generation of hypoallergenic dogs to be guaranteed to be.

Check this list and look for the breed clubs of what you might be interested in

https://www.playbarkrun.com/dogs-dont-shed-small-medium-large-breeds/


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## parus

crawas said:


> my heart is really set on this mix


Have you ever even met one?

Bichons are bold, friendly little guys, very low-shedding, and are far healthier than Cavaliers. Mixing Cav in is not an improvement IMO, even if Cavaliers are cute.


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## Debi. ifergan

Lillith said:


> What's the website?
> 
> Also, like I mentioned before, there is not guarantee a mixed breed is non-shedding, since that is one of their requirements.
> 
> And vet checked means very little. You want OFA health records, searchable by breeder name, I think. https://www.ofa.org
> You can even check which screenings your puppy's parents should have. For Cavs, once again, screening is so very important because dogs have died very young because of them!


I was really interested in getting a cavachon too. But now reading this i am having 2nd thoughts. I found one in Puppyspot but it appears they are a middle man too. Does anyone have any feedback on Puppyspot?


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## pandora

Debi. ifergan said:


> I was really interested in getting a cavachon too. But now reading this i am having 2nd thoughts. I found one in Puppyspot but it appears they are a middle man too. Does anyone have any feedback on Puppyspot?



It is a middle man for breeders. They tell puppyspot what they want buyers to hear and puppyspot tell you.
It keeps you at a distance from the breeder so you cant check if what they tell you about their dogs or conditions is true.. I wouldnt touch them or any other puppy broker/dealer/store with a barge pole.


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## Debi. ifergan

pandora said:


> It is a middle man for breeders. They tell puppyspot what they want buyers to hear and puppyspot tell you.
> It keeps you at a distance from the breeder so you cant check if what they tell you about their dogs or conditions is true.. I wouldnt touch them or any other puppy broker/dealer/store with a barge pole.


Thanks for writing back. It’s disappointing, they have a strong presence on the net and put on a good show. I will start looking directly for breeders. If you have any leads to a breeder in CA, for the Cavalier or another breed that will do well in an apartment (we of course will be taking him on daily walks and periodic visits to the part up the street) and with kids. I don’t necessarily need a purebred, I guess that is why I was interested in the Cavachon - I thought a mix of two great dogs would equal a great personality And they are so adorable. We just want a puppy that we can raise. Please let me know, I am happy to hear good advice.


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