# Doggy daycare for socialization?



## Friday (May 20, 2008)

Hi, just wondering what your opinions are about doggy daycare? I've been dealing with some on-leash aggression, but the owner of a doggy daycare in town suggested that to get Daisy to learn how to interact properly I should bring her to daycare (every day for at least two weeks, and then less as time goes on) as well as do basic training. I've already done one basic training class with her, and am noticing improvement in her overall behavior but not when she sees other dogs on leash. This would be a big commitment for me, both financially and timewise (it is a huge round trip and I would need to make some arrangements with my work...) So any opinions that you may have on this would be greatly appreciated. If not doggy daycare, any other tips on socializing her better (she is about 20 months, I got her at 13 months in case that makes a difference).

Also, any opinions on dog parks?


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Friday said:


> Hi, just wondering what your opinions are about doggy daycare? I've been dealing with some on-leash aggression, but the owner of a doggy daycare in town suggested that to get Daisy to learn how to interact properly I should bring her to daycare (every day for at least two weeks, and then less as time goes on) as well as do basic training. I've already done one basic training class with her, and am noticing improvement in her overall behavior but not when she sees other dogs on leash. This would be a big commitment for me, both financially and timewise (it is a huge round trip and I would need to make some arrangements with my work...) So any opinions that you may have on this would be greatly appreciated. If not doggy daycare, any other tips on socializing her better (she is about 20 months, I got her at 13 months in case that makes a difference).
> 
> Also, any opinions on dog parks?


Are you referring to bringing her in class on leash, or letting her interact off leash? Those are two VERY different things.

Personally, I would not trust anyone with a leash reactive dog. Ollie had leash reactivity to an extremely high degree. It took a LONG LONG LONG time and lots of frustration and setbacks to get him better.

The method I used was basically, bring him near dogs on leash. The second he notices the other dog, that's where your starting point is. Not so close he starts approaching the other dog, but not so far he doesn't know the dog is there. I'd do some basic obedience, practice having him focus on the treats. I'd move closer and closer, and if he has a setback, I move back again.

Eventually I got to the point where I could have Ollie simply sit on the side of the road, about 6' from anyone passing by. This was the first big step in the training.

After that... I had to start all over. All I had done is have him sit calmly around dogs walking by on leash, now I have to have him walk calmly by my side as other dogs pass me by. The process is the same, I walk towards the person and treat him. Once his focus stopped being on me and started moving towards the other dog, I sidestepped and put him in a sit to allow the other dogs to pass me by.

Eventually I was able to keep his focus closer and closer and closer until I passed them. You'll have to work on his focus for a while after the dog passes because he might turn back.

I really would not recommend training leash reactivity in a uncontrolled environment like a daycare or dog park, etc.

It's a long process, which took me about 6-7 months to get to the point he was pretty good on leash. It's ongoing even today, almost a year after I got him. He's mostly calm and walks well on leash around dogs, but there are always little situations or little regressions. I'll likely have to touch him up for another few years, if not all his life. However Ollie was an rather extreme case, where he had total teeth baring, growling, barking, lunging and twisting himself in the air, when we were more than 100' away. You may be able to do this faster and more permanently.


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## aero4ever (Jan 18, 2007)

It sounds like she does OK off leash if she went through obiedence class, so it's just on leash.

For socialization that's easier on your budget would be to take her to dog park if you have one and let her run off some steam. Dogs are usually off leash and if you could take her when there aren't so many dogs and work your way up to more. 

Are you sure that what you're seeing on leash is aggression? It could be an attempt to check out the other dog to play and she's excited. 

To help with on leash, I'd make sure that you aren't anticipating a problem and sending those vibes to your dog. Then pay attention to your dog and the nano second she starts to have an issue, you'll be able to see a difference in body language, gently but with authority jerk the leash (not pull, but more of a quick attention getter) and get her attention, give her a shhh, enough, or whatever works for you when you have to correct her in stopping other behavior. Keep up your momentum and treat it has no big deal. I had this issue with one of mine and the other thing I did was to manuever myself so that I was between my dog and the other dog, so I could body block. Be consistant and persistant (easier said than done somedays), it's confusing to a dog to one day doing this, the next day doing that. For me, I wouldn't do any type of training if I was frustrated or tired.

There are some good books and videos out there that could explain it better than me. Check your library (free, free free!!! )


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## Friday (May 20, 2008)

_Are you referring to bringing her in class on leash, or letting her interact off leash? Those are two VERY different things._

Well, her class was on leash and she did show a bit of improvement. But of course since dogs don't generalize, the outside world is still open territory for her barking, lunging and growling. (As was class if too much was going on, we will be repeating it one more time...) I guess I was just kind of hoping if she got a lot of dog interaction off leash, then dogs wouldn't seem as "interesting" to her when we pass them on the street... Maybe I was just hoping for a quick fix...

_Are you sure that what you're seeing on leash is aggression? It could be an attempt to check out the other dog to play and she's excited. _

She is definitely excited to begin with, but too much frustration would likely turn into something worse if we got too close... A few days ago an unleashed dog ran up to us and didn't give her time to react. They sniffed noses with no problems and then suddenly she started growling at this dog. That got me walking again, but the funny thing is she didn't even look back!! Not too sure what to think about that.

_To help with on leash, I'd make sure that you aren't anticipating a problem and sending those vibes to your dog._ 

I have been working on this. When I found out about her behaviour, it definitely knocked my confidence down a lot at first. But I've started to make sure that her leash has some slack and that my "vibes" are good... (Not always that easy). Just wondering how to body block without tightening the leash too much?

And one more seemingly stupid question (although this is what has stopped me so far). How can I walk into the dog park with her... I don't want her to get run over in the parking lot (off leash), but then again, I don't want her barking up a storm (on leash) and get other dogs worked up either. Block her view until we are in perhaps?


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Friday said:


> _Are you referring to bringing her in class on leash, or letting her interact off leash? Those are two VERY different things._
> 
> Well, her class was on leash and she did show a bit of improvement. But of course since dogs don't generalize, the outside world is still open territory for her barking, lunging and growling. (As was class if too much was going on, we will be repeating it one more time...) I guess I was just kind of hoping if she got a lot of dog interaction off leash, then dogs wouldn't seem as "interesting" to her when we pass them on the street... Maybe I was just hoping for a quick fix...


While this MAY work, I would not count on it. As you say, dogs don't generalize well, as such, off leash behavior won't necessarily translate to on-leash behavior. What it sounds to me is that she may be undersocialized and needs training.

For a lot of dogs, you need to show them what you expect of them. You don't like their barking for instance, so the question is, how do you show her that you want her to not be barking? By rewarding the times she is not barking. And yes, you do sound like you're looking for a quick fix. I'm saying this sympathetically, because I went through this with Ollie, and believe me, it sucks. I know.



> _Are you sure that what you're seeing on leash is aggression? It could be an attempt to check out the other dog to play and she's excited. _
> 
> She is definitely excited to begin with, but too much frustration would likely turn into something worse if we got too close... A few days ago an unleashed dog ran up to us and didn't give her time to react. They sniffed noses with no problems and then suddenly she started growling at this dog. That got me walking again, but the funny thing is she didn't even look back!! Not too sure what to think about that.


The growl was, most likely (and by that I mean... there's no way for me to tell without being there) simply a warning to back off. Your dog is on leash, the other is not. Dogs have a fight or flight instinct, however the leash all but eliminates their flight. So the other option is to fight. That's likely why your dog opted to growl to warn him back, which is a good thing by the way. Many dogs go straight for the fight.




> _To help with on leash, I'd make sure that you aren't anticipating a problem and sending those vibes to your dog._
> 
> I have been working on this. When I found out about her behaviour, it definitely knocked my confidence down a lot at first. But I've started to make sure that her leash has some slack and that my "vibes" are good... (Not always that easy). Just wondering how to body block without tightening the leash too much?


If the dog is tightening the leash towards the other dogs, you are too close. So back up until he's too far away and loses interest. Yes, this may be half a mile away! LOL.



> And one more seemingly stupid question (although this is what has stopped me so far). How can I walk into the dog park with her... I don't want her to get run over in the parking lot (off leash), but then again, I don't want her barking up a storm (on leash) and get other dogs worked up either. Block her view until we are in perhaps?


Don't walk into the dog park with her on leash, that's setting her up for chaos.

But the same principle applies. If you are close enough for her to lunge and bark, then you are too close. You want to build her up to it. Start at a distance, reward her for being quiet and calm. Slowly moving closer and closer until she's reacting. Then back up a bit. That's your starting point. every day, you work on getting closer and closer to the dog park.


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## Friday (May 20, 2008)

Thanks for the replies, I'll keep working on it. Any advice for times when you just can't avoid other dogs? This morning, a lady jogged past me with her cocker spaniel and took both of us a bit by surprise. I held the bottom of Daiy's collar and forced her into a sit until they were far enough away so that we could continue. Maybe there could have been a better way to handle this? 

Anyways, I'll just keep being patient with her. He he took me since I got her in January to get her walking pretty reliably on a loose leash. Something I'm sure a good trainer could have done a lot sooner. But at least I'm persistent...


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Friday said:


> Thanks for the replies, I'll keep working on it. Any advice for times when you just can't avoid other dogs? This morning, a lady jogged past me with her cocker spaniel and took both of us a bit by surprise. I held the bottom of Daiy's collar and forced her into a sit until they were far enough away so that we could continue. Maybe there could have been a better way to handle this?


Thats basically what I do with Allie when we get surprised by another dog. I usually see them coming and can cross the street or go the other way, but if I get surprised I just grab hold of her and pull her away. If I have treats I try to distract her, but it rarely works when we are close to another dog.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

You asked whether day care and/or going to a dog park would help. We've taken our dog to day care a lot (at least 10 days a month since she was 6 months old) and I can tell you that this method would ONLY work if the day care staff were willing to work with your dog and train her every day. Just being around other dogs in that kind of environment does not train them to be around other dogs on the street, especially when leashed. It's been my experience that 99% of dog day care places are simply dog warehouses with ill-trained, underpaid staff. If you can find one where all the staff are certified and a trainer is on staff all day, every day, I might say you could trust that one enough to give it a try. But again, your dog needs training to correct a particular behavior. Dog day care will help your dog learn how to cope in a day care environment but probably won't help your dog generalize to places outside of it. And a dog park is not the place to learn, either. Rbark offered an excellent outline of how to desensitize your dog -- I would definitely follow this method if my dog had this problem (she has the exact opposite problem -- she wants to play with every dog she meets!). So time, consistency, and rewards are the way to go.


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