# Health of goldendoodles?



## Tollerowner (Jul 5, 2011)

We are looking for a medium sized dog that likes water. A miniature goldendoodle seems like a good choice.
Our vet says that goldendoodles have just as many health problems as golden retrievers and she doesn't recommend them.
Any authoritative websites that would deal with that issue?

Also...
I have been told that miniature poodles are rather neurotic and miniature goldendoodles often are also. Any comments on that?


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

it depends on the temperament of the two dogs bred, this is where knowing the background of the breeder and the dogs are very important. As far as health is some mix breeds have very good health but this to is dependent on the matching in breeding and testing. It also depends on the breeds used-- if both breeds have similar issues the mix will be at the risk also, but even if not it is possible to get issues from either breed side. 

Temperament is part of breeding--if you go the breeder route you need to ask to see the dogs (both if possible/mother for sure) and ask the breeder why the chose to breed these two together (why are these two a good match for each other)


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

We have a goldendoodle, but not a mini! Ours is 77 pounds! We carefully researched the breeder, met the parents, saw health records of parents, etc. 
We have found our boy Gus to be laid back, but smart, and really a big goofball who thinks he's a lap dog. 
My husband had wanted a goldendoodle for several years, he had met one that he loved, owned by a good friend of his who is a veterinarian. He spent lots of time with him and decided that a goldendoodle was his dream dog. Now you and I know that the traits of one individual dog does not indicate that all goldendoodles would be like that, but....it's worked out for us!


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

My experiences with Miniature Poodles from responsible breeders have not shown me neurotic dogs. I don't have experiences with Miniature Poodle/Golden crosses


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Health is over the board, mostly because the majority of doodle breeders do not have quality stock.

I might suggest, in general, looking into the Portuguese Water Dog.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Be very, very careful what breeder you are going to. I definitely wouldn't go to a Doodle breeder that didn't test for hips and have a more responsible breeding program. I know of a few that have HD. Almost every single one of them I have met have allergies to some extent (yup, from the Golden side!). One also just randomly dropped down dead at the age of 3, most likely some kind of heart condition. The "replacement" dog that was got from the same breeder had an absolutely awful temperament. 

There are Doodle breeders out there that do appropriate health testing and are actually looking to develop the "breed" into something that breeds more consistent in coat/size/etc.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

GoldenxPoodle mix health depends on the dogs being bred, just like any purebred or any other mix would. Both breeds have similar issues. If both parents have the genes for those health issues, the pups are going to have it. There could also be genes back behind those parents, that could crop up.

Both breeds have Progressive Retinal Atrophy (eye disease), both breeds have high cancer risk, Both have heart issues, both have Hip dysplasia, and quite possibly elbow dysplasia. Both have skin issues. I know poodles can have vWD, and some sites say Goldens have the gene for it too, it is a bleeding disorder that pretty much prevents the dog from clotting normally. Both can have thyroid problems. Not to mention the diseases specific to each breed.

So you are going to really have to research, as a LOT of "doodle" breeders are not in it for the right reasons. They are in it for the fad, the money, or the poofy cute pups they can have or any combination. A lot do not health test their stock, or even know what those tests are. There are good mix breeders trying to do things right, but they are few and far between. 

I do second Xeph's suggestion of the PWD (although they do have their fair share of issues, you have a greater chance of finding a breeder that tests), but if you are dead set on the mix that is fine.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Poodles are water dogs and standard poodles are a comparatively healthy breed, and very intelligent and trainable. I wish more people would give standards a chance. I'd way rather have a standard poodle than a golden or a goldendoodle, even if I like the look of goldendoodles better.


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## Kingfisher (Jan 2, 2015)

I would strongly suggest a poodle. Most of the time everything people are looking for in a doodle is found in the poodle.

I have had bad experiences with almost all the doodles I know, but especially the mini goldendoodles. We camp multiple times per year with a goldendoodle from a "very reputable" breeder. She is absolutely the most hyper, neurotic, obnoxious dog I know. And I have border collies! And she also has horrible allergies. I have just found most doodles to be watered down shadows of their original breeds. 

It's also a major crapshoot. You have no idea what traits the dog with take from either parent. While that can be said of all pups, purebreds are breeding like to like. Two individuals from different breeds with be nothing alike, leaving you with no idea what a pup will be like. Even multi-generational crosses leave just as much in question. 

Also, never bank on a dog liking water. If that's a serious desire, maybe consider adopting an older dog with an established interest in water.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

I've met a couple miniature poodles with bad temperament (hostile to almost everyone, nervous, no joy about them). I don't know what was behind them; they may have been from irresponsible breeders or puppy farms. Goldie temperament has also gone downhill through bad breeding. Quite a few aggressive and nervous goldies about these days. So . . . as others have said . . . do a lot of checking on the breeder and avoid anyone who doesn't display care with regard to both health and temperament. Crossbreeding may dilute problems but doesn't eliminate them. And if there are problems on both sides, cross breeding may concentrate problems.
It's not clear to me what you mean by a medium sized dog. Do you consider a golden large? or mid sized? I'd think a cocker spaniel, particularly from field lines, might suit. 
I'd guess that it's hard to get a good Portuguese water dog, thanks to publicity from the White House. I wouldn't recommend getting one that isn't carefully bred. Rare breeds that enjoy sudden popularity have a tendency to go the wrong direction.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

They are all over the board. I've met some really fantastic doodles and some train wrecks. We seem to have at least one decent breeder up this way because for the most part I really like them. They aren't any healthier or unhealthier than poodles or retrievers as a general rule IME, who are also all over the board.


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## BrowniesPerson (Jul 25, 2015)

I recently got a small goldendoodle and I got her from a very reputable breeder. Like others have said, I think it depends on the parents and the breeding practices of where you get the dog.

I'm just confused about why you want to get a miniature doodle when you say you want a medium dog? The breeder I got Brownie from offers doodles in three sizes: small (15-30 pounds), medium (35-50 pounds), and standard (55+ pounds).


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

BrowniesPerson said:


> I recently got a small goldendoodle and I got her from a very reputable breeder. Like others have said, I think it depends on the parents and the breeding practices of where you get the dog.
> 
> I'm just confused about why you want to get a miniature doodle when you say you want a medium dog?


I know someone with Miniature Labradoodles and they are what I would consider on the smaller side of medium. Regular sized Doodles are HUGE.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm not going to really touch breeding 15lb golden doodles. Usually when people say "miniature goldendoodle" it is something in the 30lb range bred using a miniature poodle. A normal (full size I guess) goldendoodle or labradoodle would be 60+lbs making it a large dog to most people.


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## BrowniesPerson (Jul 25, 2015)

If you are interested, the breeder I got Brownie from is Smeraglia. Their health guarantee:

https://www.teddybeargoldendoodles.com/how-to-adopt/our-guarantee

Info about parent dogs:

https://www.teddybeargoldendoodles.com/how-to-adopt/our-parent-dogs

I read a lot of reviews before choosing them. They also have hundreds of videos online about training, puppy care, individual dogs, and more. Once you choose to adopt a dog you get more access. They gave Brownie her vaccinations before flying her over to me. 

They are quite pricey, but I'm happy with the choice.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

BrowniesPerson said:


> If you are interested, the breeder I got Brownie from is Smeraglia. Their health guarantee:
> 
> https://www.teddybeargoldendoodles.com/how-to-adopt/our-guarantee
> 
> ...


Its nice they are doing health testing, but WOW, the commercialization of that site is extreme. How many litters are they breeding every year if only one of the 4 different types they breed is "limited" to 4 breedings a year.... also, hybred vigor is not a real thing
(And it might just be a pet peeve of mine, but breeders who call it "adoption" annoy me)

Personally, I think that overall the doodle types are not bred to any consistency so what you get is a toss up. Most of the ones I have met are temperamentally iffy, although that can happen with purebreds too but its more about what so many doodle breeders are promising--- basically they promise dogs that show none of the faults of either parent breed when in reality, the dogs can show the faults of either or both the parent breeds.

If water loving is a MUST, then go with an adult dog who loves the water. I had a pit bull foster who loved, loved, loved water. Crazy for it to swim, play in fountains, get sprayed by the hose etc. She would have been amazing for someone who wanted a water dog but it isn't like the breed is known for that in particular.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> They gave Brownie her vaccinations before flying her over to me.


This is just good husbandry, it's not special. My puppies will have shots before they leave me, too.


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

Shell said:


> Its nice they are doing health testing, but WOW, the commercialization of that site is extreme. How many litters are they breeding every year if only one of the 4 different types they breed is "limited" to 4 breedings a year.... also, hybred vigor is not a real thing
> (And it might just be a pet peeve of mine, but breeders who call it "adoption" annoy me)
> 
> Personally, I think that overall the doodle types are not bred to any consistency so what you get is a toss up. Most of the ones I have met are temperamentally iffy, although that can happen with purebreds too but its more about what so many doodle breeders are promising--- basically they promise dogs that show none of the faults of either parent breed when in reality, the dogs can show the faults of either or both the parent breeds.
> ...


As I look at that site I can not see where it shows the actual dogs they use-- I do not like that since the could use the same male over and over. And I agree with you that site is too commercialized for me. 
it is good that they do testing but seems like the dogs are special orders and not special beings, imho


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

BrowniesPerson said:


> If you are interested, the breeder I got Brownie from is Smeraglia. Their health guarantee:
> 
> https://www.teddybeargoldendoodles.com/how-to-adopt/our-guarantee
> 
> ...


I would not touch that kind of breeder with a 10ft pole. Something is just so fishy..


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## BrowniesPerson (Jul 25, 2015)

Hmm, well I'm new to the dog ownership thing, so you all might be better at spotting fishy breeders than I am. So far the puppy has been well, however. The appearance of the site actually made me feel they were more professional. The only things that made me a bit wary as I looked it over were the terms "teddybear" and "toy" when referring to the dogs. Seemed very designer. But after doing research and speaking to a few people who had gotten dogs from them, the only bad thing I was able to find was one negative review on Yelp. Otherwise everyone seemed very happy. Next time I get a dog I would probably get a rescue.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I would not touch that kind of breeder with a 10ft pole. Something is just so fishy..


The site was a huge turn off. So commercialized with cutesy names and while there was a contract with appropriate language (or language that sounded good) actually finding pictures and information on the parents was difficult/impossible. They appear to be high volume breeders which is another red flag for me.


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## BrowniesPerson (Jul 25, 2015)

Oh man.  How upsetting that they might be shady breeders. I thought they were pretty transparent during the whole process. I think they might mean that they have four sets of parents for their goldendoodles each year. Neither of Brownie's parents are currently listed as parents of the dogs they have available for adoption right now.


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

Remaru said:


> The site was a huge turn off. So commercialized with cutesy names and while there was a contract with appropriate language (or language that sounded good) actually finding pictures and information on the parents was difficult/impossible. They appear to be high volume breeders which is another red flag for me.


The prep school sounds like a cool idea-- but the cost is wow. What put me off is the fact they say they test but any other breeder that I have dealt with that had a site posts a picture f the dog/bitch and the ofa/reg # so that it can be looked up on the OFA site. with out that I would be very cautious. It is possible that they are good breeder but with so many puppies it is just a big red flag.


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## BrowniesPerson (Jul 25, 2015)

They have a forum available for reading, for what it's worth.

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/Indices/233691.html#30316


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

BrowniesPerson said:


> Oh man.  How upsetting that they might be shady breeders. I thought they were pretty transparent during the whole process. I think they might mean that they have four sets of parents for their goldendoodles each year. Neither of Brownie's parents are currently listed as parents of the dogs they have available for adoption right now.


If they have 4 breedings of one specific type of mix and that's the one that is most limited and there are 3 other types they breed, that means someone in the realm of a minimum of 16 litters per year. At an average of say, 8 pups per litter (bigger dogs tend to have bigger litters, I know a rescue pit bull that gave birth to 16 pups just after she was pulled from the shelter a few weeks ago...) that would be 128+ puppies per year.
That means a fairly large breeding operation.

I will say that i do not know of course how many pups they breed each year, I am only extrapolating from their descriptions of their classes of doodles and what they deem as a limited availability etc. It could be that they use some dogs for more than one size class for example. It still indicates a large number of dogs overall IMO


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

The thing that goes through my mind when thinking about designer dogs is "where did they source their breeding dogs?" Reputable breeders of purebred dogs are, pretty much universally, dead set against letting a dog or a bitch go to a designer dog breeder. I worry that they are picking up rejects of one sort or another, eg., puppies that turned out to be unhealthy or too hard to manage for their first owners. Or that they were acquired by deceit or theft.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I would not touch that kind of breeder with a 10ft pole. Something is just so fishy..


I kinda feel like I need a shower after looking at the site.

For comparison, these are breeders I like: Unique, Apparition, Beauvoir. (NB: I'm *not* pushing poodles here - me? never!  - but I know these breeders to be honest and thoughtful in their practices, and appreciate the information provided on their web sites.)


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

cookieface said:


> I kinda feel like I need a shower after looking at the site.
> 
> For comparison, these are breeders I like: Unique, Apparition, Beauvoir. (NB: I'm *not* pushing poodles here - me? never!  - but I know these breeders to be honest and thoughtful in their practices, and appreciate the information provided on their web sites.)


See that is what I look for in sites from breeders--pics, test id #, and titles. I really like the Apparition site.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

SirviRavenWind said:


> See that is what I look for in sites from breeders--pics, test id #, and titles. I really like the Apparition site.


I like that Apparition and Beauvoir talk a bit about the personalities of their dogs. Unique doesn't have as much information, but they're very well known in the poodle community, have an excellent reputation, and I like that their "puppy" page is "we occasionally have litters, contact us" not a hard sell type page.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

SirviRavenWind said:


> See that is what I look for in sites from breeders--pics, test id #, and titles. I really like the Apparition site.


I've followed the Standard Poodle Project (google for more information) for some years and am sensitive to the high degree of inbreeding in standard poodles and its consequences for breed health. I would love to see some indication of COI or other index of inbreeding in a standard poodle website. Because the artificially created bottleneck called the 'Wycliffe effect' was one that resulted in prominence of black dogs, and these breeders show a lot of color, it looks like the named breeders (Unique, Apparition, Beauvoir) are not furthering the genetic havoc created by the dominance of the show ring by one extremely successful line). I guess you don't want to piss off your competitors by pointing out that you haven't fallen into the Wycliffe linebreeding trap. But I'm a little disappointed that none of them acknowledge the problems in breed. (Apologies for convoluted language. Hope meaning is clear).


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

sandgrubber said:


> I've followed the Standard Poodle Project (google for more information) for some years and am sensitive to the high degree of inbreeding in standard poodles and its consequences for breed health. I would love to see some indication of COI or other index of inbreeding in a standard poodle website. Because the artificially created bottleneck called the 'Wycliffe effect' was one that resulted in prominence of black dogs, and these breeders show a lot of color, it looks like the named breeders (Unique, Apparition, Beauvoir) are not furthering the genetic havoc created by the dominance of the show ring by one extremely successful line). I guess you don't want to piss off your competitors by pointing out that you haven't fallen into the Wycliffe linebreeding trap. But I'm a little disappointed that none of them acknowledge the problems in breed. (Apologies for convoluted language. Hope meaning is clear).


That would be interesting for them to add, since I don't know to much about Standard Poodles, I would think though if I was interested in that breed I would be. I really dislike the whole color issues in my favorite breed (ACS) I am more a function and health-- don't really care what color the dog is so long as it does not effect the health. I do love the parti dogs simply because of the interesting patterns that occur.


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## gwd (Sep 6, 2014)

BrowniesPerson said:


> If you are interested, the breeder I got Brownie from is Smeraglia. Their health guarantee:
> 
> https://www.teddybeargoldendoodles.com/how-to-adopt/our-guarantee
> 
> ...


I'm delighted you're happy with your puppy........... however, the website you linked has some claims that are not based on fact. Particularly about English lines vs American lines. Health issues with poodles and goldens are no different between the two countries. The most striking difference in golden's in the UK is that they favor a lighter, cream color vs the more gold color that you often see in the US. Regardless, cancer, heart issues, eye issues and hip/elbow issues can be found on both sides of the pond. .........the breeder also throws out the term hybrid vigor and that doesn't stand up to studies. The health of the offspring is dependent on the health of the parents. Crossing breeds doesn't improve health. Given the breeder's playing rather fast and loose with truth on issues that can be disproven. I'd be hesitant to believe other things that were claimed that I would be unable to verify.


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## gwd (Sep 6, 2014)

Remaru said:


> The site was a huge turn off. So commercialized with cutesy names and while there was a contract with appropriate language (or language that sounded good) actually finding pictures and information on the parents was difficult/impossible. They appear to be high volume breeders which is another red flag for me.


I just now checked on available puppies.............. five litters in the space of a month and a half is a HUGE red flag.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

sandgrubber said:


> I've followed the Standard Poodle Project (google for more information) for some years and am sensitive to the high degree of inbreeding in standard poodles and its consequences for breed health. I would love to see some indication of COI or other index of inbreeding in a standard poodle website. Because the artificially created bottleneck called the 'Wycliffe effect' was one that resulted in prominence of black dogs, and these breeders show a lot of color, it looks like the named breeders (Unique, Apparition, Beauvoir) are not furthering the genetic havoc created by the dominance of the show ring by one extremely successful line). I guess you don't want to piss off your competitors by pointing out that you haven't fallen into the Wycliffe linebreeding trap. But I'm a little disappointed that none of them acknowledge the problems in breed. (Apologies for convoluted language. Hope meaning is clear).


I'm quite sure those breeders (or any reputable breeder) would be happy to talk at length about Wycliffe, health, COI, or any other issues to a serious buyer. In my opinion, those types of issues are far too nuanced to fully present on a web page as decisions are made based on individual dogs and breeding goals. If you are looking for general information on poodle health, pedigrees, etc., there are several web sites that provide those details.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "piss off your competitors." That's not exactly how the thinking goes.

As an aside, I didn't post those sites for critique, rather as a contrast to the site linked earlier in the thread.


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## gwd (Sep 6, 2014)

cookieface said:


> For comparison, these are breeders I like: Unique, Apparition, Beauvoir. (NB: I'm *not* pushing poodles here - me? never!  - but I know these breeders to be honest and thoughtful in their practices, and appreciate the information provided on their web sites.)


 All three of the sites you listed give me good vibes. Anytime a breeder puts titles at the front and the back end of a dog tells me their breeding for stable temperaments as well as physical beauty........... also, when there are combinations of stacked pictures as well as family pictures or performance stuff makes me feel that the dogs are an important part of the family.


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## BrowniesPerson (Jul 25, 2015)

Well today was Brownie's first trip to the vet with me and the doctor wasn't too happy with what she saw in the list of medical procedures the breeder had gone through. She said they overdid the vaccinations and did the deworming procedure too many times. She also wasn't happy that they instructed me to give the puppy 3/4 tablets of Flagyl twice a day for five days. She said that medication is too strong. They said she should be fine, but that they wouldn't have put her through that. I asked her if she thought she came from a bad breeder and she said basically every breeder she's ever seen doesn't know what they're doing.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

BrowniesPerson said:


> Well today was Brownie's first trip to the vet with me and the doctor wasn't too happy with what she saw in the list of medical procedures the breeder had gone through. She said they overdid the vaccinations and did the deworming procedure too many times. She also wasn't happy that they instructed me to give the puppy 3/4 tablets of Flagyl twice a day for five days. She said that medication is too strong. They said she should be fine, but that they wouldn't have put her through that. I asked her if she thought she came from a bad breeder and she said basically every breeder she's ever seen doesn't know what they're doing.


Why would your puppy be on an antibotic anyways? Flagyl is used for Giardia, is the puppy sick? Its prescription, so the dosage and the duration (also important) should be written on the script bottle and paperwork.


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## BrowniesPerson (Jul 25, 2015)

Shell said:


> Why would your puppy be on an antibotic anyways? Flagyl is used for Giardia, is the puppy sick? Its prescription, so the dosage and the duration (also important) should be written on the script bottle and paperwork.


She was sick for the first two days--she had diarrhea and was vomiting. I was told it had to do with stress and the long flight she had to endure. The envelope with the tablets said they were to prevent stress colitis. To be fair, the vomiting and diarrhea stopped soon after I started giving her the pills.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

BrowniesPerson said:


> Oh man.  How upsetting that they might be shady breeders. I thought they were pretty transparent during the whole process. I think they might mean that they have four sets of parents for their goldendoodles each year. Neither of Brownie's parents are currently listed as parents of the dogs they have available for adoption right now.


I find it offensive that they're using the term "adoption" to describe selling designer puppies by the hundred.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

BrowniesPerson said:


> She was sick for the first two days--she had diarrhea and was vomiting. I was told it had to do with stress and the long flight she had to endure. The envelope with the tablets said they were to prevent stress colitis. To be fair, the vomiting and diarrhea stopped soon after I started giving her the pills.


Interesting. I asked because I am not a vet but it seemed odd to me to prescribe an antibiotic routinely for puppies going to new homes and with only a 5 day script. I would have thought that the flight might upset digestion sure, but a bland diet and maybe some pumpkin would seem to take care of motion sickness and temporary stress factors in a day or two.


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## gwd (Sep 6, 2014)

flagyl is an antibiotic but it also relaxes smooth muscle. That's why you saw her stools tighten up........ however, a breeder shouldn't be dispensing it as part of a puppy packet.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

BrowniesPerson said:


> Hmm, well I'm new to the dog ownership thing, so you all might be better at spotting fishy breeders than I am.The appearance of the site actually made me feel they were more professional. The only things that made me a bit wary as I looked it over were the terms "teddybear" and "toy" when referring to the dogs. Seemed very designer.


They're mixed breed dogs....what else would they be other than "designer"? People tha breed "teddybear" dogs aren't someone I'd ever get a dog from....teddybear anything is much like "teacup": nothing, just a term a probably less than stellar breeder uses to reel you in. IMO.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Shell said:


> Interesting. I asked because I am not a vet but it seemed odd to me to prescribe an antibiotic routinely for puppies going to new homes and with only a 5 day script. I would have thought that the flight might upset digestion sure, but a bland diet and maybe some pumpkin would seem to take care of motion sickness and temporary stress factors in a day or two.


Rescues do it, too, to prevent diarrhea in recently rehomed dogs that are likely to get it from sudden diet changes and/or going from well water to city water, etc.


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## ShelbieX (10 mo ago)

BrowniesPerson said:


> If you are interested, the breeder I got Brownie from is Smeraglia. Their health guarantee:
> 
> Our Guarantee | Teddybear Goldendoodles
> 
> ...


They are a known puppy mill


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

This thread is from 2015 and the OP has likely made a decision by now. Please feel free to join in current discussions or start your own thread but I'm closing this one to further replies.


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