# Barking Dogs!!! & angry neighbors



## Dannygirl1 (Dec 14, 2007)

Well, I have a barking dogs issue, and I don't know what to do. When we are home the dogs are fine, but as soon as we put them in their pen and leave they just bark and bark. I have read that exercise might help, but these dogs are running around most of the day, and we play a lot of fetch and Frisbee, every day! 
I have been looking into bark collars, or even the ones that you can put in the same area as the dog, but I want to know what will ACTUALLY work. Any ideas?


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## prolibertate (Nov 7, 2007)

When you say 'pen' is that an outside pen or a crate in the house? What kind of dogs are these; how old; how many?

If they're in an outside pen, then they're going to bark when they see something worthy of barking at. Bringing them inside is one solution. If they're in a crate in the house, then, along with desensitizing them to your leaving, you can also train them to bark on cue...and when they don't get the cue, they don't bark (see link below).

Don't fuss over them when you leave or come home; always spend 10-20 minutes before you leave, and after you come home, ignoring the dogs. This will help to desensitize them to your leaving, and will show them that there's no big deal that you're leaving, because you always come back.

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1125

You can also give them a Kong stuffed and frozen, a Buster Cube, etc. only when they go in their pen/crate...this will keep them busy for a while.


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## Dannygirl1 (Dec 14, 2007)

there are 3 dogs. 2 of them are boarder collie mixes and 1 of them is a cattle dog. They are in a big pen in the back yard so they can run around and play while they are in there. There are also a lot of toys in there to keep them occupied. The biggest barker is the oldest dog who is 6 and he is the one who gets the others going. He is clearly a boredom barker, but he also barks very loudly when he is playing, which is probably part of the problem. 
I actually had no idea there was a barking problem until we came home last night to find a fairly nasty note taped to the door. I put them in their pen and leave, and I guess they don't start barking until after my car has left the driveway.


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## prolibertate (Nov 7, 2007)

Dannygirl1 said:


> there are 3 dogs. 2 of them are boarder collie mixes and 1 of them is a cattle dog. They are in a big pen in the back yard so they can run around and play while they are in there. There are also a lot of toys in there to keep them occupied. The biggest barker is the oldest dog who is 6 and he is the one who gets the others going. He is clearly a boredom barker, but he also barks very loudly when he is playing, which is probably part of the problem.
> I actually had no idea there was a barking problem until we came home last night to find a fairly nasty note taped to the door. I put them in their pen and leave, and I guess they don't start barking until after my car has left the driveway.


You have some pretty heavy duty working dogs there, who need to have a job to keep them busy. Toys may not do it for them, since they're bred to work with sheep and cattle. You might try reading up on these particular breeds to see what types of 'jobs' you can give them and exercise them with to get them more tired out. If left alone in a large pen all day, they're going to get bored, and they will run around and bark. It may come down to you having to crate them inside during the day, and taking them for walks in the morning and when you come home. Also, dogs left in a pen or a fenced yard tend to not run around much; they tend more to lay around and bark at things, so they're not getting as much exercise as their human thinks they are.

You may also want to check the laws in your area, as some states have laws about barking dogs and how long they can do it, how late at night they can do it, what fines they give for it, and what your responsibility about it is.

Patricia McConnell, Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson, Jan Fennell, and Victoria Stilwell have some books out that may help you with this, and they all have experience with working dogs, especially border collies.

I don't recommend barking collars, primarily because IMO it's shocking a dog for simply doing what dogs do. And if one ever wants a dog to alert them to suspicious noises, then the barking collar may disable that even when it's off. Also, it's up to the dogs' human to control their environment so that they can be dogs and do what dogs do without also showing unacceptable behavior (such as that which upsets the neighbors). Most dogs don't mind a crate as it becomes their den or safe place to them, and you won't have to worry about them getting bored and chewing up the sofa. A vigorous walk or game of fetch in the morning should help to tire them out, and a tired dog is a good dog


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

You said boredom barking. How did you eliminate or get rid of any alert barking or territorial barking? You need to be specific because there are different fixes for the different kinds of barking. If you've got all 3 kinds of barking going on, frankly, you've got a real problem on your hands.
The easiest solution is to bring them inside, unless you're willing to spend a great deal of time and energy to resolve each of the barking problems for all 3dogs.
There are no collars that are 100% effective. The best anti-barking collar is only at 85%. That might still be too much barking for your neighbors.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Great response to this thread. I agree with everything. My honest feeling is that if the dogs are barking outside while you are gone, they shouldn't be outside. You obviously have gone to great care and expense to have this wonderful play area for your dogs.I could never leave my standard schnauzer outside because she would bark protecting her territory-she would become a nuisance to the neighbours. It becomes next to impossible to try to deprogram a dog that is wired to bark. This requires alot of attention to training for this specific reason. I have heard it can be done. The hard part is that when you are away you have no idea what goes on. You can't do retrain when you aren't home to see and correct the behaviours. I think the barking collar is a bad idea. You aren't there when the behaviour happens. I don't think the dog knows why it is receiving the zap. I honestly don't think it would help. I really agree with TooneyDogs and the barking issue.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

*Neighbor taunting my dog with anti barking device?*

We have a 1 yr old border collie-australian shepherd mix. She comes in when we come home and gets lots of attention and play time. She never barks inside. 

In the morning, when we go to work, she does to- out into the yard to deter the squirrels, rabbits and other varmints (we live adjacent to a large field/former farm that is adjacent to our neighborhood). Our dog patrols her yard, first thing, circling the perimeter twice, tail puffed up. 

Apparently, after we leave, she barks. On the weekend, she barks a lot as well- at birds, stray cats and people coming near our home. 

I personally like the territoriality of the dog. It's way better than the garbage-can-lid chewing squirrels, the plant-killing bunnies and the garbage picking possums and *****. 

My neighbor complained to me about the dog barking. Now, he's put a bird house anti barking device on the side of his house, facing the part of our yard where the dog spends most of her time (by her food, water and dog house). 

What is the problem with the dog barking during the day?

Can these devices harm the dogs? Alter their behavior for the worse? I want my dog patrolling and working like a four legged burglar alarm. She never barks at night, so I really fail to see what the problem is. 

And I should note that three other houses in the immediate area have barking dogs, and have for years.

I guess my main question is- has anyone challenged the legality of these devices? How are they different from spraying a dog with water, shooting them with a BB gun, etc? Aren't these in effect pain-compliance devices?


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

There is PLENTY wrong with barking dogs.

First it is RUDE.
Second some one could be a shift worker and sleep during the day.
Third some one could have a new baby, friends visiting. 

People want to beable to enjoy their yards. not have to worry about a neighboor with a unruly dog who barks all day.

Your dog is also bored. Putting her out int he back yard is boring. she needs excersise and mental stimulation.

I have a barking breed of dog (rough collie) and boy does he lvoe barking. But I would never let him bark all day long,that is plain rude.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

If the dog is barking in response to varmints, or wagging her tail when barking, how is that any different from children laughing, yelling, otherwise being loud?

I agree if my neighbor was a shift worker, I'd be concerned. But he's in his 70s, is up at o-dark-thirty, and is outside only to leave his house or mow the grass. Our dog isn't keeping him from enjoying his yard. And the other neighbors around his house, and across the street have had barking dogs even longer. He didn't put up a dog house then...

Thanks for the response though, I appreciate your point of view.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

I agree with Tooney that the op seemed to settle on "boredom barking". If your dog is hearing noises or sees people or other dogs around it could very well alert barking or territorial barking, or a combination of those.

Our pups are alert barkers and we are working hard to deal with this, because we don't want to be rude neighbors. We know we don't enjoy Sunday mornings when we try to sleep in, but can't because of a more distant neighbor's barking dog, so don't want to irritate our neighbors in a similar way.

Also, I agree with the person that said a dog left in an outside pen may not be getting as much exercise when you're gone as you think. I think the op's dogs need "jobs" and some nice, long walks.

And, you might talk to your neighbors, and acknowledge the problem and tell them that you're working on it. They might be more understanding if you make an effort to keep them in the loop.


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## LindaA (May 25, 2010)

I have a border collie/greyhound(?) mix and there is no way I could crate or pen her outside. I know for a fact she would bark all day long. I do crate her inside while I'm at work and she is fine with that. My husband comes home for lunch and she doesn't let out a peep. I've peeked around the corner at her before when I've come home at an unexpected time and she is always laying there peacefully, or standing up looking around. She eagerly goes to her crate every morning before I leave for work. 

BUT all that said, she does get a nice long walk before I go to work every morning and a nice long one when I get home. Then another one before bedtime. We also play frisbee and ball with her in the back yard. She NEVER gets crated when we are at home, she is always with us doing what we are doing inside or out. 

So - I agree with the others, the barking is boredom. You have some very active breeds who need jobs and stimulation. Some of the barking could be territorial barking, but it sounds like most is boredom. You might try crating them inside, but the older ones may have a harder time adjusting to this if they aren't used to being crated. 

Good luck to you!


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

If they can't escape your yard, maybe padlock any gates and install a doggie door so they can go in and out. I have 3 dogs and they spend the day inside asleep when I am gone. They can go out thru the doggie door to go to the bathroom, but come right back in due to the heat.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

If I were retired and in my 70's and the neighbor immediately next door had a dog that barked all day I would be peeved. 

Of course I have little tolerance for people who have kids who scream all day long too. '

Noise is noise. Remember that the music you enjoy may not be the music your neighbor enjoys. At least if it is music he can just shut it off. It is a dog barking that is a whole 'nother hair ball. 

I wonder if that anti bark device is working? Be good to know (for other reasons). 

If this bothered me and my neighbor thought it was no big deal I would be calling the neighbor at 2:00AM and saying, "Your dog barked all day today" and hang up. 

As to the OP's dogs barking the question I have is how long are you gone at work all day? Crating is the answer if you can do it.


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## yappypappymom (Oct 22, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> *Noise is noise.*
> I wonder if that anti bark device is working? Be good to know (for other reasons).


^^Hear, hear!!

My neighbors are WONDERFUL! Are they nice? YES...Are they people that I am happy to have live beside me? YES..(some neighbors can be horrid!) 
Are they the BEST dog owners "out there"??..NO (they let their dog BARK, BARK, BARK, BARK, BARK, BARK(I could go on FOREVER w/the "barks")for hours! When it comes to the neighbors & their dog?!?!...I HATE THEM!! I feel bad for saying this, but, I HATE their dog too!...now, I know that their dog is just "being a dog", BUT..they LET HIM!! 
For the past 2 yrs.(hes been here for the past 6 yrs too), we have decided against putting a sm. garden on the side of our house..one of the BIGGEST reasons WHY, is, BECAUSE of "Tracker"(neighbors dog). When we would try to garden, this A*hole would just bark at us nonstop...we, of course, would expect our "nice neighbors" to intervene, &, call their dog off, but, they never would..(gee, who's the REAL A*hole in this scenario?)
I have myself looked into getting this "bird house" device myself. Think on it THIS way...if your dogs are SUCH a "nuisance", AND, your neighbor spent AT LEAST $60 bucks or so,...do you REALLY blame him?
He is probabally sick & tired of being barked at barked at whilst trying to enjoy his time outside w/o be accousted by barking menaces to his private time. Maybe he likes to garden too?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

It's called _nuisance_ barking in city bylaws for a reason.

Dogs kept outside during the day develop a lot more than barking habits. Barrier frustration is common as well. Constant alert barking is not FUN for dogs, it's frustrating and stressful. Barking is a form of communication and there is no one there to reply.

To the OP, you have three working breed dogs. Backyard exercise and some frisbee is not going to cut it. They need mental work and it is your job to provide it. Food toys, trick and obedience training, working on herding skills etc and lots of walks/runs out in the world are necesary for their mental health. An unemployed dog finds ways to be self employed.

Using a doggy door or keeping the dogs inside, crated or not, is healthier psychologically for everyone, including your neighbours.

CKSAmartin:

It's also important to think about the 70 year old next door. As we (and our dogs) age, our hearing changes, some of the sounds become harder to hear and some levels of sound become increasingly harder to tolerate and occasionally painful to hear. Show some compassion for your neighbour, he could be having real physical and mental distress having to listen to your dog all day.

The sonic bark thing may or may not be overly aversive (depends a lot on the dogs' sense of hearing and sensitivity) but it's a heck of a lot better than throwing poison over your fence. It frequently happens that the dogs pay for the owner's lack of concern for his neighbours.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

doxiemommy said:


> I agree with Tooney that the op seemed to settle on "boredom barking". If your dog is hearing noises or sees people or other dogs around it could very well alert barking or territorial barking, or a combination of those.
> 
> We know we don't enjoy Sunday mornings when we try to sleep in, but can't because of a more distant neighbor's barking dog, so don't want to irritate our neighbors in a similar way.
> 
> Also, I agree with the person that said a dog left in an outside pen may not be getting as much exercise when you're gone as you think. I think the op's dogs need "jobs" and some nice, long walks.


Our dog stays in on the weekends until 11 AM- we sleep in, put her out to pee, then let her stay with us for awhile. But I don't like to keep her cooped up inside, so out she goes for an afternoon patrol of the yard. 

I don't get the walking thing. When I was a kid, apartment dogs had to be taken for walks, but farm dogs ran free all day long. Yard dogs stayed in their yards all day long. 

Why does my dog need to go on a walk, when she has a yard to run around in? Wolves don't get taken for walks, neither do coyotes or foxes. Do I need to take my children for walks? They get to run around in their yard when they want...


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

LindaA said:


> So - I agree with the others, the barking is boredom.


I dunno- we live next to an abandoned farm- it's a huge field and wooded area behind us full of wildlife: foxes, deer, hawks, countless birds and occasional stray cats. We've found ***** and possums on our property. 

As the barking isn't regular, and doesn't last more than 5-10 minutes at a time, wouldn't it be more likely that the barking is in response to critters coming near the back fence?

This is a very quiet dog inside, or with the family- unless we get her riled up and play rough, then she does a yip thing, tail awagging. (Like when she chases a little RC car). I really don't think she's bored, or suffering anxiety from us- sometimes we have to make her come in at night. She really loves her backyard. 

I never crated a dog as a kid. I'm not an animal rights nut, but crating a dog for extended periods just seems cruel. Dogs need to run- at least, my dad told me that when I was a kid and we moved to an apartment and I had to give my dog away.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

CKSAMartin said:


> I don't get the walking thing. When I was a kid, apartment dogs had to be taken for walks, but farm dogs ran free all day long. Yard dogs stayed in their yards all day long.
> 
> Why does my dog need to go on a walk, when she has a yard to run around in? Wolves don't get taken for walks, neither do coyotes or foxes. Do I need to take my children for walks? They get to run around in their yard when they want...


Coyotes and foxes have miles and miles of territory to patrol and oodles of mental stimulation provided by an ever-changing environment while they do it. A city dog in a yard knows every inch of that yard very, very quickly and things don't change much -- very boring! And a city/suburban lot really doesn't provide much exercise no matter how many hours a dog spends in it. Going on walks is mental AND physical exercise that a dog needs. If you spent all day, every day in your yard with nothing to entertain you except what's actually in the yard you'd go nuts with boredom, too.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

Elana55 said:


> If I were retired and in my 70's and the neighbor immediately next door had a dog that barked all day I would be peeved.
> 
> Of course I have little tolerance for people who have kids who scream all day long too. '
> 
> ...


We have been the best of neighbors for 13 years. We don't play loud music, we don't fill the culdesac with visitors' cars, we don't let our children run rampant and unsupervised- we stay inside, in the AC, playing with the kids and being quiet. 

So if my dog barks during the day, when you're awake, you'd call me at 2AM to complain? That's pretty stupid. I think I must have misunderstood you. Our dog is inside at night. 

To answer your question- I don't think the bird thing works. My dog just hangs back, barking at it from a distance where it must not hurt her hearing. Unfortunately, she's an albino dog and so instead of staying in her nice, shaded sideyard, she's now forced out into the back yard with no shade.

The bird house device is also triggered by any loud noise, according to my internet reading, so it seems more like a taunting of dogs, which is cruelty.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Wolves, coyotes and foxes wander, roam and expand territories. Do your children NEVER leave the house? 
Straw man arguments my friend. 
How would you like to be housebound for the rest of your life?

Dogs years ago were also routinely euthed for behaviour issues caused or exacerbated by lack of mental and physical stimulation. Farm dogs HAVE JOBS and have freedom. A dog in a backyard might as well be a dog left in a pen from day one. 

You know, as someone who gets immense pleasure from walking my dog (and the one's I am hired to walk) I just don't get how someone couldn't want to take their kids and their dogs out to explore the world. It's not healthy for anyone to be stuck in their little home all the time.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

yappypappymom said:


> When we would try to garden, this A*hole would just bark at us nonstop...we, of course, would expect our "nice neighbors" to intervene, &, call their dog off, but, they never would..(gee, who's the REAL A*hole in this scenario?)
> He is probabally sick & tired of being barked at barked at whilst trying to enjoy his time outside w/o be accousted by barking menaces to his private time. Maybe he likes to garden too?


If my dog was barking at people, I'd correct her. She's barking at critters. My neighbor comes outside to get his mail, go to work, or mow his yard (and my dog is deathly afraid of mowers and runs to the other end of the yard). She's not barking at him. 

No garden, either. Or lawn furniture, or any indication these people do more than grow grass in their yard. And why is there no ultrasonic bridhouse on the other side of their yard, to deter the other dog that barks?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

CKSAMartin said:


> As the barking isn't regular, and doesn't last more than 5-10 minutes at a time, wouldn't it be more likely that the barking is in response to critters coming near the back fence?


5-10 _minutes_ of barking at a time is a lot of barking. If that were my neighbor's dog I'd be irritated, too.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

Cracker said:


> It's also important to think about the 70 year old next door. As we (and our dogs) age, our hearing changes, some of the sounds become harder to hear and some levels of sound become increasingly harder to tolerate and occasionally painful to hear. Show some compassion for your neighbour, he could be having real physical and mental distress having to listen to your dog all day.
> 
> The sonic bark thing may or may not be overly aversive (depends a lot on the dogs' sense of hearing and sensitivity) but it's a heck of a lot better than throwing poison over your fence. It frequently happens that the dogs pay for the owner's lack of concern for his neighbours.


That's the first time anyone has offered this info, in other threads on other sites. 

But again, I have to counter that my neighbor doesn't sip margaritas by the poolside- he's rarely outside. Never leisurely. 

I'll counter your argument about consideration by saying that the stray cats that seem to linger around the neighbor's house (probably because they feed them) are a nuisance to me. I don't like having to clean their crap out of my flower beds, to the point we didn't plant any this year. And I don't like the squirrels that have chewed holes in my garbage cans, and pull trash out. I've trapped two *****, and chased two away. I really NEED an alert, barking dog to teach the varmints around my home that my yard (where my kids play) is a no-go zone. 

As for the dog's hearing- they thought at the shelter she was deaf and blind (she has those weird "ghost eyes" from her aus. shepherd parent). I think she's deaf in one ear and hard of hearing in the other- she can't locate sounds by hearing. I wonder if the ultrasonic works or if it is overly painful to her, as you propose her barking could be to the neighbor. I tried a dog whistle with her to do some training and she was completely unresponsive to it- even adjusting it for the best frequency. She's not totally deaf, as she recognizes the sound of food being put in her bowl, responds to her name, and has learned half-a-dozen commands.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

sassafras said:


> 5-10 _minutes_ of barking at a time is a lot of barking. If that were my neighbor's dog I'd be irritated, too.


The neighbor on my other side (two doors down from my problem neighbor) had three dogs that barked for HOURS for ten years or so (they finally got sick and old and were one by one put down). He has a replacement now, but his dogs were not only noisy but got loose all the time (smart buggers could open the gate with their snouts). 

Didn't bother me. Dogs bark. And since 3dog-neighbor worked for 70-something neighbor, I guess it didn't bother him, either.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

CKSAMartin said:


> Didn't bother me. Dogs bark. And since 3dog-neighbor worked for 70-something neighbor, I guess it didn't bother him, either.


Whether those dogs bothered you or bothered your neighbor at the time is irrelevant to whether your dogs are bothering him now.


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## CKSAMartin (Jun 27, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Do your children NEVER leave the house?
> Straw man arguments my friend.
> How would you like to be housebound for the rest of your life?
> 
> You know, as someone who gets immense pleasure from walking my dog (and the one's I am hired to walk) I just don't get how someone couldn't want to take their kids and their dogs out to explore the world. It's not healthy for anyone to be stuck in their little home all the time.


They won't let dogs go to the movies or the mall. So we can't take her with us when we go there. Nor do we take the dog with us to friends' homes. 

And given the number of criminals in the neighborhood (we had a shooting in the field behind our house a few months ago, for example) I'm not keen on taking my kids for walks in the neighborhood- except for Halloween. 

We don't have any dog parks in my town that I know of, so that's a no-go as well. 

And personally, as long as I could get around in my house, it wouldn't bother me at all to stay there. I have a huge yard, a nice cool basement, and lots to do. If it weren't for the wife and kids, I'd stay home ALL the time. it's a nice break from work.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

CKSAMartin said:


> If the dog is barking in response to varmints, or wagging her tail when barking, how is that any different from children laughing, yelling, otherwise being loud?
> 
> I agree if my neighbor was a shift worker, I'd be concerned. But he's in his 70s, is up at o-dark-thirty, and is outside only to leave his house or mow the grass. Our dog isn't keeping him from enjoying his yard. And the other neighbors around his house, and across the street have had barking dogs even longer. He didn't put up a dog house then...
> 
> Thanks for the response though, I appreciate your point of view.


I am one of those 70's persons and while not retired do have an easier schedule than most (planned) Wife (10 yrs younger) and I both have the getting up early problem. Now occasionally on my easy work days I may catnap 20-45 minutes etc. Why would I want to be bothered by barking dogs, I have a kennel 150 feet from home and no barking dogs (partially soundproofed)

Let us add up the hrs. In bed 9:00 to 9:30 and up anywhere between 3:30 and 4:00 I would say 6 to 7 hours sleep if we go to sleep immediately and sleep through to wakeup time. In all probability 5 to 6 hours. Now since my nearest neighbor is almost half mile away I nap in peace. (It was a plan when we bought the place) Not wanting to be rude I wanted my dogs not bothering anybody and did not want to be bothered by neighbor's dogs. I'm just sayin'...


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Just to clarify.. if I lived next to you and your dog barked during the day and bothered me because I like quiet, and nothing was done after I asked you to address it, I would call at 2:00AM and complain.. because most assuredly you would be interested in it being quiet at that time. 

Noise is Noise. In this case it would be annoying to you and therefore you would object (phone ringing at the height of your sleep cycle and my statement). 

You walk and train your dogs as much for their quality of life as your own. Just because you put them in the yard all day makes it no less a prison than any other on going inappropriate confinement. They are not coyotoes or wolves with a territory to patrol and they are not the same genus as the fox (vulpes as opposed to canis.. and foxes have a slit eye like a cat FYI). 

No. Dogs cannot go to the Mall or to the Movies but there are likely State Parks where you and your kids can go and hike and do other things that are not dog prohibitive and likely less expensive and healthier than malls and movies..... 

And remember.. this is not about the any other dog owner in the neighborhood. This is about your dog. What someone else is doing is not your concern.. only your dog and how your dog impacts someone next door is your concern. Pointing at someone down the street is an excuse, not a solution.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

CKSAMartin said:


> Why does my dog need to go on a walk, when she has a yard to run around in? Wolves don't get taken for walks, neither do coyotes or foxes. Do I need to take my children for walks? They get to run around in their yard when they want...


Because a walk is not just about the movement. It's about the mental stimulation of sniffing territory, checking out sites, spending time with you out in the "real world" and taking in the environment (more mental stimulation). A dog that's walked has something to do and direct his energy on. It doesn't HAVE to be a walk, but if the dog is bored, he's crying out for something to direct his energy and drive on. Give it to him. Tire him out. Give him mental challenges. Heck, do both, give him mental challenges while also walking. I train Wally while walking. Train him. Then go for a long walk, then train him at the end of the long walk before coming back home. Where he gets more training. I believe dogs are happiest when they are tired as they get to totally crash and relax instead of having this energy inside them and nothing to do with it. At least, the heavy sigh and relaxed body as he climbs up in my lap (after sniffing my mouth of course to see if I've been eating) seems to tell me he's happy. 

As far as wolves, etc - you don't think wolves/foxes/coyotes travel? You don't think they walk around, go from place to place, patrol their territory, hunt? All those things require them to leave their home and....walk. And while they are walking, they are getting mentally stimulated and have something to focus on. They are with their pack mates, working and interacting with them. They don't have to get "taken" for walks...because they just do it. Plus...they aren't domesticated.

As far as children - are children dogs? No? Then not relevent.



Elana55 said:


> No. Dogs cannot go to the Mall or to the Movies but there are likely State Parks where you and your kids can go and hike and do other things that are not dog prohibitive and likely less expensive and healthier than malls and movies.....


Plus, a park is probably like a mall and movie theatre to a dog  

Only thing missing is the food court - and - hey if they find some leftover crumbs to sniff, they get that too!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Hahaha.. depends on the PArk if there is a food court or not (most are unofficial and the dog will toss it up in the car on the seat on the way home!). 

With the DF down I have been missing the Wally Updates! How is the Wally Dog doin' out there? Has he torn the leg off the mail man yet?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

CKSA, it doesn't matter WHY your neighbor is bothered by your obnoxious barking dog (wich you are allowing to BE obnoxious) it is YOUR responsiblity as DOG OWNER and NEIGHBOR to keep your dog from bothering your neighbor. Take the dog inside so it's not barking at the critters, get it out for some FORMAL excercise and training so it's not so bored and quit being 'that guy' on the block with the obnoxious dog.

I'm now locking this thread because it's been hijacked


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