# Dogs and Copperhead bites



## Yorkie69

WARNING - Very Long post. Also if you love snakes and don't believe in killing them then you might not want to read. 

Hello Everyone I'm new here and wanted to share some of my experience on Copperhead snake bites and dogs.

First of all let me state that I am NOT a expert and any advice including mine should never be taken over a professional veterinarian. This post is just from my personal experience and what effects one dog may not effect another one and vice versa. 

I live out at a private lake in kinda S. Mid E. Texas between Corsicana and Waco and these last two years I have seen more copperheads than in the fifteen + years that I have lived here. It all started last year. I don't know if people are clearing the woods on the other side or if it's because of the bad drought conditions or what but I keep getting snakes in my yard. Last year I had about 6 of them and this year I have already killed 12

I have to kill the snakes because my dogs won't leave them alone once they're spotted. I have a black Lab who is excellent at spotting them. She can see them from a mile away, Lol. Anytime she's barking at the ground then I KNOW there is a snake. 

I also have a small mixed dog at around 18 lbs named Gizmo and a Jack Russell Terrier who's around 23 lbs named Mr. Willis. Both dogs have been bitten by these snakes. 

The Terrier - Mr Willis was the first to be bitten. I heard the dogs outside making a lot of noise so me and my brother ran out and as soon as we went out the door Mr Willis turned around and looked at us and was bitten. He got bit in the shoulder blade and whined and cried alot. This was one of the worse ones. He was highly agitated and his shoulder swelled up alot. He acted like he was drunk and wouldn't settle down. We kept him calm, put a benadryl down his throat and petted him. The second bite was Gizmo. Again, we heard dogs barking and went out, they had a snake cornered at a tree - seems like they always corner them at this same tree and while I was running over there Gizmo jumped back and yelped. After I killed the snake I inspected him and found the fang marks on his paw. His paw swelled up pretty big. He whined a bit at first but seemed okay. He limped for a while but the swelling started going down in a couple of hours and by the end of the night he was walking fine again. The third and worse looking bite was Mr. Willis again. I use some garden type clippers that cut tree limbs to catch the snakes. The clippers have extendable handles so I can get some good distance and I just go over and grab the snake with it. It won't kill the snake but they get pinched in the blades and can't get loose then I can just lay them on the ground with the caught snake and chop their heads off with my shovel. So we heard them barking and went out and there was a good sized snake headed right for my Black Lab who's tied up. She's the one who always spots them so I ran over and I kept trying to grab it but it was moving so fast I couldn't get it. My brother was holding onto the dogs so couldn't help me light up the area and I finally caught it right before it reached my lab but I didn't get it close to the head. I caught it closer to the tail and I was lifting it up when Mr. Willis got away from my brother. He ran over and I didn't see him and then he jumped at the snake which struck out hitting him in the face. It caught him under the chin.

I was so scared and thought Mr. Willis was going to die. His nose swelled up and was bigger than his head. He looked awful. He wasn't as agitated as he was the first time he got bit but kept shaking his head. I made my brother hold onto him while I put on gloves because of the bites to his chin which had a bit of blood and I didn't want to get any type of venom on me and then put a benadryl in him. A few hours later his swelling started to go down and by the morning he looked mostly normal.

I know it's just supposedly a myth that copperheads travel in pairs but let me tell you'll that every single snake I have caught, within the next 30 minutes and sometimes sooner I have caught another one. I have never killed one snake without it's "partner" showing up and I 100% believe that they DO travel in pairs. The snakes seem to be coming from the woods but always end up over by my Lab who spots them very well. 4 of the snakes were spotted by me and my brother because they were maybe 3 feet from my front porch where we sit.

Copperhead bites are rarely fatal to dogs. I have read alot of forums and there's alot of people who will tell you that they're always fatal. That if a dog gets bit it's dead. This is simply NOT true. I'm not saying that they can't be fatal but all of my experience and research shows them not to be. Out of the Pit Vipers here in Tx. the copperhead is the least venomous. They give birth to live young ones - they do not lay eggs and can have up to 20 although they only normally have 2 to 6. They are lay and wait predators and will find a mouse trail or hole and just sit there and wait on it. They will also just sit in a yard very still and wait for a person to pass them by. They do not like people and will try to run or sit still to escape notice. Most human bites are from people trying to handle them or kill them. The best thing to do is let them go if you can. 

Only around 3% of dogs die from a copperhead bite whereas 10% of dogs given an anti-venom could die from an allergic reaction. Probably most dog deaths to copperheads are from a allergic reaction to the venom. Now I'm not saying it's safe for them to be bitten but they do have a better chance of surviving it than people seem to think. I don't know if this applies to small inside breeds such as chiwawas (I don't think I spelled that right, Lol.) 

How to treat a dogs snake bite: First of all, give them a Benadryl. 10mg for small dogs, two of them for big dogs. Clean the bite wound to help prevent infection. Do not use any type of lotion or anything like that on it. Just use soap and water. Give antibiotics to help relieve the swelling. Keep them calm and reassure them. DO NOT try to put any kind of tournaquet on them (Don't think I spelled that right either). Do not cut the wound or try to suck out the poison. Do not apply heat or ice to the wound. 

Take your animal to a vet as soon as possible if you can, just remain calm and don't drive like a maniac. Chances are good that your dog is going to be fine. I hope this may help some. I had to look through so much information, some of it was great others were downright misleading. I know snakes are a part of the ecosystem and all that and I do feel bad for killing them but when you have this many snakes in your yard and your babies won't leave them alone then you have no other choice. Plus I don't like snakes, especially copperheads, their heads are smaller than their bodies and they just look freaky like weird aliens. I don't like spiders much either - they remind me of those little aliens in the movie aliens that stick to your face and put the aliens inside of you. Like they're walking nuckles - /shivers. 

Take care everyone. Please always take your vets advice first.


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## Mach1girl

Just killed one the other day!


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## BobSD

Good information, do not worry about your spelling, I am in the same boat, if you can make it out it is good enough!! I do not know if cooperheads are in the rattlesnake family, thats what we have here. I live on a mountain, and on the rocky side drop off a long way down, thats were they live and most stay in that area. From Oct to May, we do not have to worry about them. I would think some of your dogs may have built up some immunity. I keep the grass cut short around my property so that the snakes do not like. One last thing, and I feel you know this, rattlesnakes can even with there head cut off can still bite and inject venom. Take care!


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## Spicy1_VV

I love snakes!!!!

Dogs have a pretty good chance of surviving snake bites, just depends on the dogs. Our dog lost her tail but survived, our friends have had a few dogs bitten without death one old female nailed right in the face but she survived too. These snakes were western diamondbacks. The Diamondback does not have a particularly toxic venom either but they are very likely to bite and give a good dose of venom. Still many dogs survive. 

I know the feeling of snakes getting bad. This year we are doing ok, last year was crazy with bullsnakes. The dogs were killing them frequently, I was spying them often, had a few calls of freaked people to have them removed (of course they thought they were rattlesnakes) and there was 1 in the house at least every other month. This year doesn't seem to be too bad so far.

Good luck to you and your dogs.


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## CinnamintStick

We have Mojave Rattlesnake-Crotalus scutulatus. The often mis-named "Mojave Green" has the most potent venom of any rattlesnake in North America. Its poison is about 16 times more powerful than that of the Sidewinder. I don't think my dogs would live. Or me for that matter. We are to far from medical help. I noticed our feed store had a dog trainning class on teaching your dogs to avoid snakes. I think that is a good idea.


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## aero4ever

Thank you for posting this. I usually don't read a post all the way through if it's really long cause I have the attention span of a flea, but I read yours.

I take my dogs into the woods every morning 7/24 and snakes have always been a concern for me. I've seen them out there, a huge one striked at one of my dogs and it was either a warning strike or missed cause there was no reaction to a bite from my dog. Too me a snake is a snake and they all creep me out and I avoid them, course I can't tell poisonous ones from non, but doesn't matter.


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## CinnamintStick

If your dog is bite try to kill the snake so your vet can treat your dog corectly. I was just reading a story where it says "It ended up being a very expensive adventure, with a bill totaling more than $10,000. Doctors used four bottles of antivenin, borrowing some from neighboring clinics, at $767 per bottle." Wow that alot of money for a snake bite. This was the Mojave Green. This is my local paper. 

*Miniature dachshund survives bite from Mojave Green*

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/green_7689___article.html/miniature_mojave.html


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## Spicy1_VV

CinnamintStick said:


> We have Mojave Rattlesnake-Crotalus scutulatus. The often mis-named "Mojave Green" has the most potent venom of any rattlesnake in North America. Its poison is about 16 times more powerful than that of the Sidewinder. I don't think my dogs would live. Or me for that matter. We are to far from medical help. I noticed our feed store had a dog trainning class on teaching your dogs to avoid snakes. I think that is a good idea.


I'd have to agree there, a dog is not likely to survive Mojave bite, they are one of the more venomous snakes out there. In TX the Mojave is top but it is not as widespread as other snake species so less people/dogs to come in contact with, 
copperhead or diamodback is less fatal but more common.


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## Dogstar

This is just a really good year (for them, anyway ;P) for copperheads, apparently. We've had a lot down at the farm (Falls County, an hour and a bit south of the OP), and my friend Beth (Txcollies) killed one last night at her place out in Weatherford.


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## Doggedly Determined

Hi,

My wife and I started a site that is open to all to add stories others can benefit from. It stems from a cancer scare we had with our retriever. So we tell our story so if someone else is in a simlar situation, our info may be of some help. We wish we would have known more as we went through it.

Like your copperhead story, we feel every dog (and dog owner) has a story. We call them "_Dog Tails_." We hope to build a library of helpful information from every-day dog lovers, like us. We are just getting started. Please feel free to visit and add your "_Tail_". Thanks.

http://www.doggedlydetermined.com/communityStories.cfm


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## Mdawn

We get snakes in our yard a few times a year. Some of them are copperheads...but they are usually already dead when we find them. I have no idea what kills them...they don't have any sign of injuries like they had a run in with an animal or something, so that is a bit of a mystery. We don't use rat poison or anything in our house for mice for fear the dogs and cat would get into it so its unlikely that they ate a mouse that had come in contact with poison. 

Anyway, I live in a rural area. Most of our property are hay fields that surrounding farmers come and cut down for us twice a year and they get to keep the hay for their cattle. It does help if you keep the brush cut back a fair distance from the house and don't leave out piles of wood or other objects that they can get into. My boyfriend swears that common black snakes keep copperheads away (not sure if that is true or not) but we don't generally kill a snake as long as its a fair distance from the house. If it does come too close to the house, my boyfriend will try to relocate it to the surrounding woods instead of outright killing it. However, there have been at least 2 occasions where the snakes wouldn't "cooperate" and he did end up killing the snake. Personally, I won't step a foot out of the house if I know a snake is in the yard. I am terrified of snakes to the point of it being a phobia. 

I've heard that copperhead bites aren't generally deadly unless to the very young, elderly and those who are already sick. I would assume that the same would be generally true for animals. However, if I knew that any of my dogs or cats had be bitten by one, I'd immediately be on the phone to the vet and/or bringing them in. It's better to be safe than sorry. None of my current animals have been bitten by any sort of snake that I'm aware of. 

However, two of my previous dogs did "gang" up on a black snake several years ago and they ripped it to shreds. Also, one of my cats have killed a snake. This same cat has come in other contact with other snakes that I've witnessed and the cat was just too agile for the snake and easily dodged and jumped away from the strikes.


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## BobSD

just wondering if they did any aerial spraying in your location, thats not too healthy for humans. If the snakes are just dieing, thats a bad sign.


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## CinnamintStick

Even where I live in So CA high desert you will find dead snakes with no sign of anything wrong. I don't think there has been any spraying here. This is a picture I took of one that I found earlier this year. To me it looks like it just died. I did not see any marks on it. Last year there was not many snakes due to our drought. There was not as many rodents, and quail either. This year we had a tiny bit more snow so the weeds grew and the whole food chain started back up.


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## alphadoginthehouse

aero4ever said:


> Thank you for posting this. I usually don't read a post all the way through if it's really long cause I have the attention span of a flea, but I read yours.


Me too Aero...the attention span I mean. I love snakes and luckily all I get here in the 'burbs of Houston are "garter snakes" which I usually find dead in the house because Mort (probably) got a hold of them. Don't know what I would do if I found a big snake.. 

Couldn't a snake die if it didn't find food...?


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## Mdawn

Its just the Copperheads that we find dead. I don't think that I specified that previously. One of the them was coiled up in the side yard and just looked like it was sunning itself. After closer inspection, my boyfriend saw it was dead. It looked to be a young snake too. Also, last summer we found one on the side of our driveway...also dead. It's a little weird but I honestly never thought much of it. We don't have any other kind of animals that that have died without apparent reason...just the Copperheads.


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## Yorkie69

Dear everyone who read my post. I Need to write and update on some new information. I went to my vet the other day and talked to him about these copperheads and he said that he doesn't like to give dogs Benadryl because it can cause permanent psychological effects so he gives them a shot - I can't remember what it's called but I think it starts with a D. I'll ask him again and get the name. He gave me two syringes with it for my two dogs just in case they do get bitten and told me to give it to them in the meat of their thigh. He also told me that antibiotics do not get the swelling down. I read and talked to other vets online and they all say to take them but I TRUST my vet he is very good.

So I guess if it's an emergency then you can give them benadryl. I can attest to the fact that it did help my dogs alot but I don't want to chance causing them problems. 

Also, there is a Rattlesnake Vaccine that you can give your dogs once a year. Go talk to your vet about it. He said that people say it really helps with Copperheads too. And since rattlesnakes are much more deadlier to our little babies then I'm going to get them vaccinated. The venom is the only thing to worry about - infections and other problems can be as deadly if not more so it's a good idea to always have them looked at.

He said he had a pit bull in a while back that got bitten on the tongue and his tongue swelled up so huge. He gave it those shots and the owner just kept dousing the tongue with water and it went down in a few hours. Poor baby but he's doing okay now. 

Like I said in my first post - always talk to your vet and take their advice over anyone elses. We all learn as we go and I hope my OP didn't cause any problems in anyone's pets. Take care everyone. As soon as I get the name of that shot I will post it. I'll also create a new post with this info to make sure everyone sees it. Take care.


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## Criosphynx

Killing the snakes in your yard is not the answer. It will *not* stop them from coming back. There are snake proof fences that you can build around your property if you are that concerned about it. It is not hard to do.

Also if you have had such an issue i suggest strong avoidance training instilled into your dogs. There are trainers that will do this for $75 or so.

Also, of course there is the vacine.

Rather than killing these animals it is just as easy to remove them from your property. If you can swing a shovel then you can shovel the snake into a bucket and dump it in the woods. 


There are reptile people who would more than happly do this for you as well, for free.


I repeat that killing them will not make them go away *at all*. I urge you to simply move them. These are animals too, just like your dogs. The cute animals are not the only ones that deserve to live. Just my two cents. thanks


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## scintillady

I feel so lucky to live in Maine.(most of the time!) I know we have a reputation for having cold weather and snowstorms, but we don't have poisonous snakes, thank goodness. We also don't have earthquakes, tornadoes (usually) very few hurricanes, floods, or mudslides, no volcanoes, scorpions, tarantulas, wildfires, etc. I am so glad I don't have to worry about Ruby getting bitten by a snake. I think I will trade having to dress her in fleece in the winter for snake bites any day.


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## txcollies

Dogstar said:


> This is just a really good year (for them, anyway ;P) for copperheads, apparently. We've had a lot down at the farm (Falls County, an hour and a bit south of the OP), and my friend Beth (Txcollies) killed one last night at her place out in Weatherford.


Yep, we killed it. Copperheads and Chicken Snakes give us the most trouble. But they are usually shot before they can cause any trouble.

I've had a goat, cat and two dogs bit by snakes. What kind I'm not sure, although I'm willing to bet copperhead. They swelled up and that was it. 

I've heard from other breeders that rattlesnakes do more damage, copperheads do very little if any to dogs.


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## sw_df27

we put out moth balls and it keeps the snakes away


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## SamiLynNewJersey

ewww I HATE snakes, I would kill them too If I had one in my yard, I agree with the lady from maine, I will take the [email protected] winter over snakes anyday!


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## Criosphynx

SamiLynNewJersey said:


> ewww I HATE snakes, I would kill them too If I had one in my yard, I agree with the lady from maine, I will take the [email protected] winter over snakes anyday!


A crappy winter would just make your house more apealing to a snake. Its warm inside.
_
Like i said before_, killing them doesn't make them go away. Your house is built in their habitat, they aren't going anywhere.


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## SamiLynNewJersey

thankfully, I live in NJ & have never seen a snake here (knocks on wood)

now at my dads house in Fla., there are lots of snakes, not to many but I do see them around, mostly run over by cars.

To me saying dont kill them is is like saying dont kill mice if your house/yard was infested with them.


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## Criosphynx

SamiLynNewJersey said:


> thankfully, I live in NJ & have never seen a snake here (knocks on wood)
> 
> now at my dads house in Fla., there are lots of snakes, not to many but I do see them around, mostly run over by cars.
> 
> To me saying dont kill them is is like saying dont kill mice if your house/yard was infested with them.


Mice are vermin...pests.... Snakes are a natural part of the enviroment... a wild animal.... they do not "infest" areas.

They move constantly and while they have ranges there is no particular teritory for one animal. 

If there is no reason to stay in your yard the snake will move on. If there is a reason to stay, Say a mouse infestation. It will stay.

This is the reason killing them doesn't do any good. More will just mosey through.... a snake released into the woods will most likely never return to your yard. Unless you are a food source.

People always worry about snakes in their yard. You either are 

1. in a rural area and need to quit complaining because wildlife is normal.

2. in an urban area and you are a food source. This means there is a rodent/ bird population in your yard/neighbors yard. Kill your mice and gophers and the snakes will leave you alone.

Im not asking anyone to do anything. Im just promoting education on the subject because i think alot of killing is done out of irrational fear and ignorance. (kinda like dogs turned into shelters eh?)


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## SamiLynNewJersey

I dont really think I need to be educated on snakes, I remember learning all about them, so thanks anyway. 
IMO a snake is a pest, thankfully there are no snake shelters. & I have not seen any around my way, so it really does not matter to me.


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## Criosphynx

SamiLynNewJersey said:


> *I dont really think I need to be educated on snakes, I remember learning all about them, so thanks anyway.*
> IMO a snake is a pest, thankfully there are no snake shelters. & I have not seen any around my way, so it really does not matter to me.




I think you are mistaken. You've proved this already. 

That comment on education was meant at the world in general. Not you.


Just for your uneducation.....

New jersey is home to 71 species of snakes

Florida is home to 45 species.


Florida is warmer so they obviously move around more. Doesn't mean there are more of them, just more visible.

As far as the comment on snake shelters, there are maaany clubs, societies and rescues. Not everyone likes only the cute and fluffy animals.


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## SamiLynNewJersey

keep your uneducation, I have lived in Jersey for 25 years & I have never seen one, & If I do I will make sure I kill it just for you


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## Criosphynx

SamiLynNewJersey said:


> keep your uneducation, *I have lived in Jersey for 25 years & I have never seen one, & If I do I will make sure I kill it just for you*



*if people said som'thing incorrect or wrong about pitbulls you would say som'thing im sure.* its the same with snakes for me.

I've already explained why you've never seen one.

You can _ignorantly murder _all the _innocent wildlife _you want. If thats your perogative.

Way to show people who you really are. *That you would kill an innocent animal to get back at som'one you don't even know who is trying to politely educate people.*


What a lovely addition to our forum...yay.

im done talking to you. Peace.


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## OtterNJ

I hate snakes too


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## Adelyn

Criosphynx said:


> Like i said before[/I], killing them doesn't make them go away. Your house is built in their habitat, they aren't going anywhere.


Yes but killing one makes for one less in the world to deal with! 

Sorry but my dog got bit by a copperhead just today. I got back from my vets a few hours ago and now I'm online researching it and I came across this forum. 

A copperhead is not an "innocent animal" as you like to put it. And let me tell you another thing, I don't care if it's another dog, a human or any other "innocent animal". If something, anything, attacks my dog and or family they will get a bullet in their head or in this case a shovel through their heads. 

I love animals but when it comes to protecting my own animals and family all bets are off. My animals and family come first, especially when we are taking about a snake!

Yorkie - thanks for the interesting read. My dog got bit by a copperhead today and I've been a nervous wreck over it. Your post gave me a sense of peace knowing it's not as bad as it looks. 

She got bit in the back leg and it's grossly swollen and just oozing. The vet gave me some antibiotics and anti-inflammatory/pain meds. I live in NC and the emergency animal clinic vet said they've been getting copperhead snake bits nearly daily.


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## txcollies

Ouch. Sorry to hear about your dog.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I have had a goat, cat and two dogs get bit (one dog got bit twice during a few months time.) The swelling was bad, but they quickly got over it, even the one that got bit in the face.


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## MitzisMom

If you're in snake territory, especially rattlers, may I suggest that you consider having your dog vaccinated with the rattlesnake vaccine? This is probably NOT a stock vaccine at most vets' offices, but I'm willing to bet that if you gave enough heads' up, your vet might be able to get it for you. If you live in snake country in a place where there are a lot of hunting dogs or farm dogs, you may have better luck finding a vet who has this vaccine in stock.

To my knowledge, there is one manufacturer-- Red Rock Biologics.

From the site:



> What types of snakes does this vaccine protect against?
> 
> 
> 
> Should my dog be vaccinated?
> If your dog lives, works or plays where rattlesnakes live, you should consider vaccination with a rattlesnake vaccine. Approximately 300,000 dogs and cats are bitten by venomous snakes each year in the United States. Rattlesnake venom can cause serious injury and even death.
> 
> What types of snakes does this vaccine protect against?
> This rattlesnake vaccine was developed to protect against Western Diamondback Rattlesnake venom. It is most effective against this snake's venom.
> 
> Venom from many other snakes found throughout the United States is similar to the venom of the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake. Because of these similarities, this vaccine also provides protection against the venoms of the Western Rattlesnake (including the Prairie, Great Basin, Northern and Southern Pacific Rattlesnakes), Sidewinder, Timber Rattlesnake, Massasauga and the Copperhead. This vaccine provides partial protection against the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake.
> 
> This vaccine does not provide protection against the Water Moccasin (Cottonmouth), Mojave Rattlesnake or Coral Snakes. Red Rock Biologics is developing a variety of vaccines to provide the best protection against poisonous snakes for dogs in each part of the country.


http://www.redrockbiologics.com/FAQ.html

More info:

http://rattlesnakevaccinefordogs.com/segD_trans.html

Important note-- this vaccine should be considered as a means to buy time to get to the vet, and to MINIMIZE (not ELIMINATE) the effect of a snakebite, and to help your dog recover better under a vet's care should he or she be bitten. If your dog has the vaccine and is bitten by a covered species of snake, veterinary care is still critical.

Hope that helps.


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## Great Dane

Criosphynx said:


> *if people said som'thing incorrect or wrong about pitbulls you would say som'thing im sure.* its the same with snakes for me.


Wonderfully said, I couldn't agree more.



OtterNJ said:


> I hate snakes too


Hate usually stems from being uninformed about a particular thing.

Seems that's the case here.



Adelyn said:


> Yes but killing one makes for one less in the world to deal with!
> 
> Sorry but my dog got bit by a copperhead just today. I got back from my vets a few hours ago and now I'm online researching it and I came across this forum.
> 
> A copperhead is not an "innocent animal" as you like to put it. And let me tell you another thing, I don't care if it's another dog, a human or any other "innocent animal". If something, anything, attacks my dog and or family they will get a bullet in their head or in this case a shovel through their heads.
> 
> I love animals but when it comes to protecting my own animals and family all bets are off. My animals and family come first, especially when we are taking about a snake!
> 
> Yorkie - thanks for the interesting read. My dog got bit by a copperhead today and I've been a nervous wreck over it. Your post gave me a sense of peace knowing it's not as bad as it looks.
> 
> She got bit in the back leg and it's grossly swollen and just oozing. The vet gave me some antibiotics and anti-inflammatory/pain meds. I live in NC and the emergency animal clinic vet said they've been getting copperhead snake bits nearly daily.


Actually, they are innocent.

Who encroached on their territory?

Who destroyed their habitat?

Exactly, that's what I thought.

Snakes don't just strike for the hell of it, they strike when they feel threatened. You can believe what you want, but Snakes aren't pests - they do a lot more good than harm and keep other pests away from your home in fact.

If my Snake ever escaped and wound up dead in your yard and it doesn't matter if it's domesticated or wild, you can be sure I would put a bullet through your animals head in return.

You wouldn't like that much, would you?


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## txcollies

I would be careful about giving the the rattlesnake vaccine. Dogs have had seizures and died after getting it.

http://www.doggienews.com/2005/02/rattlesnake-venom-vaccinations.htm

http://www.pantanoac.com/rattlesnake vaccine.htm

http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/vmth/clientinfo/info/genmed/vaccinproto.html



We have a huge copperhead problem out here. And I will shoot, and shoot to kill. It only takes one bite...


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## Great Dane

txcollies said:


> We have a huge copperhead problem out here. And I will shoot, and shoot to kill. It only takes one bite...




Let's say there is a vicious dog in your yard, teeth bared and getting ready to attack. Would you;

a) Shoot it

b) Try and get inside to call AC to try and remove the dog from your property

The point I'm making is there are many better alternatives other than shooting a Snake who was there likely long before you. You can explore different routes where these animals get relocated into an environment with little human interaction.


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## txcollies

Considering that I live so far out that AC will NOT come and help no matter what. We are very rural, country folk out here. 

If it came down it it, I'd A) Shoot it.

And considering that I live so far out that it's no use relocating snakes, since we have so many. That ain't gonna happen. If a snake was threatening me, the dogs, another family member, the stock, etc. It will get removed from the picture. End of story.


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## Shaina

Great Dane said:


> If my Snake ever escaped and wound up dead in your yard and it doesn't matter if it's domesticated or wild, you can be sure I would put a bullet through your animals head in return.
> 
> You wouldn't like that much, would you?


Right, because shooting an animal for killing a foreign animal that entered its yard because you want revenge is totally reasonable 


We have the timber rattlesnake, eastern massasauga rattle-snake, copperhead and cottonmouth, but they are all rather rare up here, fortunately.


----------



## Bearjing

I shot a snake that got into my house. It was a young rattler, rattling away. My parents were visiting and my poor mom heard the snake in a box in the bedroom they were staying in. My mom is _so far_ from being able to deal with these things it's scary-- she was having some sort of anxiety attack while also hysterically trying to protect me, her daughter, from the snake. The whole situation was just a mess, and the ultimate resolution involved my dad keeping my mom away while I shot the snake. So be it....

We have also had many small and large brown snakes show up - though none inside. Those are given an escort away from the dog area so the dogs don't hurt them. They are quite harmless, and actually probably keep the rodent population down. (I heard they eat rattlers too. Not sure if it's true...)

I do always try my damdest to determine what I am dealing with before taking action - in only the 1 case (indoor rattler) has the verdict been death. I've actually enjoyed moving some of the brown snakes - there was this one HUGE fellow (gal???) that I got to carry a waise and I'd never felt the snake muscles thing before. It was INCREDIBLE!!! 

I often hope that snake had a good life. I feel a bit attached to him. (Yeah, weird I guess).


----------



## MitzisMom

txcollies said:


> I would be careful about giving the the rattlesnake vaccine. Dogs have had seizures and died after getting it.
> 
> http://www.doggienews.com/2005/02/rattlesnake-venom-vaccinations.htm
> 
> http://www.pantanoac.com/rattlesnake vaccine.htm
> 
> http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/vmth/clientinfo/info/genmed/vaccinproto.html


Then it would be worthwhile to weigh the risks vs. benefits. If you have a serious snake problem or your dogs hunt or tend to venture into situations where they have a high risk of being bitten, then it may be worth the seizure risk. 

Dogs have had reactions to every other vaccine out there-- the Leptospirosis vaccine is one of the most common offenders. Yet Lepto is serious enough and also zoonotic, so many vets recommend it if there is a high rodent or raccoon population. Lepto is spread through urine, and if your dog laps out of a puddle that may be contaminated with infectious urine, he can get Lepto and spread it to your family. Lepto used to be a routine part of the combo vaccine, but then it was removed and offered as a separate vaccine. Now, some manufacturers are incorporating it again as we continue to build and the rodent population increases even in urban environments.

However, the DHPPC, Bordetella and Rabies vaccines have all caused allergic or other reactions (sometimes fatal) and many areas require a Rabies vaccine by law. My last Schnauzer had a near-fatal allergic reaction many years ago to her DHPPC at the age of 12, after getting it every year for her whole life. There's no way to know which dogs will react, or when.

You just have to weigh your risks. Certainly, a toy Poodle that only goes outside for 5 minutes to piddle then goes back inside is at less risk of snakebite than a Lab who goes out into the woods for hours at a time.



> We have a huge copperhead problem out here. And I will shoot, and shoot to kill. It only takes one bite...


What if the snake bites before you shoot?


----------



## Sonn84

My dogs have been bitten more than once by a variety of snakes you can't avoid them here. The worst was a few years back before someone stole my hound she got bit on the eye it swelled up huge she is the only one we have had to take into the vet to make sure it didn't puncture her eye. The others the vet either tells us give them a benedryl pill or we go pick up a shot from them.

We don't kill them just run them off. They pretty much stay out of my yard but when we go hiking I have to keep an eye out for my dogs and me.


----------



## Great Dane

Shaina said:


> Right, because shooting an animal for killing a foreign animal that entered its yard because you want revenge is totally reasonable


Wild Snakes are foreign? What does that make you and your dog than?

It's not about revenge, but I do know that a dogs life is no more important than any other animals life. If you can make such a knee jerk reaction on killing another living thing, why shouldn't I make the same decision on your animal if you've killed one?


----------



## txcollies

MitzisMom said:


> Then it would be worthwhile to weigh the risks vs. benefits. If you have a serious snake problem or your dogs hunt or tend to venture into situations where they have a high risk of being bitten, then it may be worth the seizure risk.
> 
> Dogs have had reactions to every other vaccine out there-- the Leptospirosis vaccine is one of the most common offenders. Yet Lepto is serious enough and also zoonotic, so many vets recommend it if there is a high rodent or raccoon population. Lepto is spread through urine, and if your dog laps out of a puddle that may be contaminated with infectious urine, he can get Lepto and spread it to your family. Lepto used to be a routine part of the combo vaccine, but then it was removed and offered as a separate vaccine. Now, some manufacturers are incorporating it again as we continue to build and the rodent population increases even in urban environments.
> 
> However, the DHPPC, Bordetella and Rabies vaccines have all caused allergic or other reactions (sometimes fatal) and many areas require a Rabies vaccine by law. My last Schnauzer had a near-fatal allergic reaction many years ago to her DHPPC at the age of 12, after getting it every year for her whole life. There's no way to know which dogs will react, or when.
> 
> You just have to weigh your risks. Certainly, a toy Poodle that only goes outside for 5 minutes to piddle then goes back inside is at less risk of snakebite than a Lab who goes out into the woods for hours at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> What if the snake bites before you shoot?



Which is why, along with a host of other reasons, more and more people aren't vaccinating their dogs. But that's another topic for another day. ;-)

There's snake avoidance training, also. 



I've never yet had snake bite before I shot, or chopped it's head off, etc. We have easy access to our 'weapons' and so that would be rare.




I remember once my mom told me that when she as a teenager, they had a huge copperhead come up through the toilet. Yuck!


----------



## MitzisMom

txcollies said:


> Which is why more and more people aren't vaccinating their dogs. But that's another topic for another day. ;-)


Which is also why we're seeing more cases of Parvo and distemper again... but as you said, another topic for another day. Just sayin'. 

However, a 3-year protocol on the Rabies and DHPPC helps minimize the risk, and for pets with known sensitivity, the vet can pretreat with dexamethasone and/or Benadryl to head off these allergic reactions. We had to do that for Heidi, our previous Schnauzer and it worked great.



> There's snake avoidance training, also.


Now if we can just train the snakes to avoid us...





> I've never yet had snake bite before I shot, or chopped it's head off, etc. We have easy access to our 'weapons' and so that would be rare.


Unfortunately, there's a first time for everything. As we say in storm chasing, "Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you". So far, it sounds like you've been fortunate, but the snake's day may come.



> I remember once my mom told me that when she as a teenager, they had a huge copperhead come up through the toilet. Yuck!


EEEEK!! 

I'd shoot then, then make a trip to my local hardware mart for a new commode and floor time-- and plenty of shop towels to clean up the mess. LOL!!


----------



## Shaina

Great Dane said:


> Wild Snakes are foreign? What does that make you and your dog than?



"Foreign" as in the second animal (snake) is unknown to the first animal (dog). As in an unknown entered the yard of the dog (from the dog's perspective).



Great Dane said:


> If you can make such a knee jerk reaction on killing another living thing, why shouldn't I make the same decision on your animal if you've killed one?


This makes no sense whatsoever. My disagreeing with the pointless killing of an animal out of an overblown sense of revenge and advising against it is the same as you disagreeing with the dog for killing a snake and thus killing the dog in turn? 

That analogy would only work if I suggested you should be in turn be killed for killing the dog, which I did not in any way suggest.


ETA: I'm not saying the snake is to blame or that it should have died. I AM saying that to seek revenge on a dog is to assign undeserved moral responsibility to the dog. Both creatures acted according to their respective natures in your hypothetical situation and are both innocent in the sense that they are devoid of the moral obligations or prejudices of humans. I'm not condoning the killing of native snakes...if anyone is to blame it's the human for allowing the situation to occur in the first place.


----------



## MitzisMom

Shaina said:


> "Foreign" as in the second animal (snake) is unknown to the first animal (dog). As in an unknown entered the yard of the dog (from the dog's perspective).
> 
> 
> 
> This makes no sense whatsoever.



I think what the other poster was saying is, "If it's okay for you to kill another living thing that entered your yard-- then is it not okay under the same logic for him/her to kill your dog if it entered their yard?"

Not taking sides here, as I do hunt and fish... but just trying to add clarification as I read the other post.


----------



## Shaina

MitzisMom said:


> I think what the other poster was saying is, "If it's okay for you to kill another living thing that entered your yard-- then is it not okay under the same logic for him/her to kill your dog if it entered their yard?"


I read it as...it's not okay for your dog to kill anything that enters your yard, and further, if it's a snake, I will kill your dog in revenge.

I guess we shall see


----------



## MitzisMom

Shaina said:


> I read it as...it's not okay for your dog to kill anything that enters your yard, and further, if it's a snake, I will kill your dog in revenge.
> 
> I guess we shall see


If the other poster's dog entered my yard and attacked one of my cats, I'd shoot that dog.

Why?

Because I wouldn't want to be bitten myself by approaching an attacking dog, and the cat is technically my property (legally, pets are property).

Would it hold up in court? You bet it would. I have a right to protect my property. Further, I would sue the dog's owner for the loss or damage to that property, and probably win, as most areas have leash laws. A pet owner has an obligation then to keep their pets on their own property or on a leash.

However, if my cat wandered into the dog's yard and got attacked, then it's my problem for not keeping the cat on her property.


----------



## Great Dane

Shaina said:


> "Foreign" as in the second animal (snake) is unknown to the first animal (dog). As in an unknown entered the yard of the dog (from the dog's perspective).


The fact remains; the dog is the unknown and foreign element in the Snakes habitat. There are easy and safe ways to repel snakes from the (their) property instead of killing them unnecessarily just because they stumbled into the (their) yard.




Shaina said:


> This makes no sense whatsoever. My disagreeing with the pointless killing of an animal out of an overblown sense of revenge and advising against it is the same as you disagreeing with the dog for killing a snake and thus killing the dog in turn?
> 
> That analogy would only work if I suggested you should be in turn be killed for killing the dog, which I did not in any way suggest.


I think my post was misconstrued. I am merely talking about a human going out and killing a Snake for no reason other than it being in the yard.

If a Dog decides to go and attack the Snake, so be it; they're only acting in self defense. The same goes for a Snake, if your dog is nosing around it and gets bitten, only your dog is to blame considering Snakes give off a ton of warning signs prior to biting.

My original response was to the post mentioning the person not hesitating to put a bullet or a shovel through the head of a snake.




MitzisMom said:


> I think what the other poster was saying is, "If it's okay for you to kill another living thing that entered your yard-- then is it not okay under the same logic for him/her to kill your dog if it entered their yard?"
> 
> Not taking sides here, as I do hunt and fish... but just trying to add clarification as I read the other post.


Much more clearly stated than my reply. 

That's exactly the point I was trying to get across.

As I said, if the dog decides to engage the Snake and kill it; so be it. I however have a problem when a *human* decides to kill another living just on the sole basis of it being in their yard near the dog. That's the perfect definition of a knee jerk reaction in my opinion.



Shaina said:


> I read it as...it's not okay for your dog to kill anything that enters your yard, and further, if it's a snake, I will kill your dog in revenge.
> 
> I guess we shall see


Wow, was I really that unclear?

If you thought I said that, I can obviously see where the confusion comes from.

That was never my point.


----------



## Shaina

So then, several posts later, we essentially agreed all along it seems...


----------



## Adelyn

Great Dane said:


> Actually, they are innocent.


Please honey - copperheads are predators they ARE NOT INNOCENT! 



Great Dane said:


> Who encroached on their territory?
> 
> Who destroyed their habitat?


Honey - last time I checked my name was on the deed, not the Copperheads! Oh, and my house was here long before I bought it so it wasn't me that "destroyed their habitat".



Great Dane said:


> Exactly, that's what I thought.


Obviously you thought wrong!



Great Dane said:


> Snakes don't just strike for the hell of it, they strike when they feel threatened. You can believe what you want, but Snakes aren't pests - they do a lot more good than harm and keep other pests away from your home in fact.


The snake bit my dog because she accidentally stepped on it. She was bit in the rear leg. Trust me, the snake did more harm then good as far as I'm concerned and I am VERY PROUD TO SAY I KILLED 2 OF THEM TODAY!



Great Dane said:


> If my Snake ever escaped and wound up dead in your yard and it doesn't matter if it's domesticated or wild, you can be sure I would put a bullet through your animals head in return.


If your snake slithered (trespassed) on my property you better believe I'll kill it! Oh and honey - you wouldn't even get close enough to kill me dog - trust me! Like I said, I protect my family and my pets! 



Great Dane said:


> You wouldn't like that much, would you?


 You bet I'd like killing your snake should it slither onto my property!


----------



## Great Dane

Adelyn said:


> Please honey - copperheads are predators they ARE NOT INNOCENT!


Please sweety - Copperheads are innocent much as in the same way your dog is. Please learn something about the species before you go off on a wild tangent portraying them as the devil.





Adelyn said:


> Honey - last time I checked my name was on the deed, not the Copperheads! Oh, and my house was here long before I bought it so it wasn't me that "destroyed their habitat".


Sweety - The Copperheads were there long before the deed was signed and they will remain there long after you're gone. It doesn't matter if the house was there before you bought it, the fact remains that you're in their habitat.




Adelyn said:


> Obviously you thought wrong!


Really? Explain please.





Adelyn said:


> The snake bit my dog because she accidentally stepped on it. She was bit in the rear leg. Trust me, the snake did more harm then good as far as I'm concerned and I am VERY PROUD TO SAY I KILLED 2 OF THEM TODAY!


Your dog shouldn't have stepped on it than. Is your dog unable to possess the intelligence to watch where it steps? The Snake was protecting itself much like your dog would if it was in a confrontational, or what was thought to be a confrontational situation.

That's nice that you killed 2; it just goes to show what kind of person you are. What comes around goes around, karma is a bitch.






Adelyn said:


> If your snake slithered (trespassed) on my property you better believe I'll kill it! Oh and honey - you wouldn't even get close enough to kill me dog - trust me! Like I said, I protect my family and my pets!
> 
> You bet I'd like killing your snake should it slither onto my property!


Keep that in mind next time your dog(s) step foot on somebodies property. Oh and sweety, you could kill my snakes, but you better believe that your dogs wouldn't live for very long after that. You can protect your pets all you want without harming another living, breathing animal but if you killed one of mine (snake), I'd love to see you stop me from killing your dog.

Like I said, karma is a bitch.


----------



## Willowy

Great Dane said:


> you could kill my snakes, but you better believe that your dogs wouldn't live for very long after that. You can protect your pets all you want without harming another living, breathing animal but if you killed one of mine (snake), I'd love to see you stop me from killing your dog.


Funny that you're arguing against killing innocent animals, then you threaten to kill innocent animals  . I'm confused; am I missing something here? 

Personally, I'm not fond of all of people who kill ANY animal just for the heck of it. The snakes were there first, and humans have invaded their territory. Killing them without a good reason is just wrong.


----------



## Great Dane

Willowy said:


> Funny that you're arguing against killing innocent animals, then you threaten to kill innocent animals  . I'm confused; am I missing something here?
> 
> Personally, I'm not fond of all of people who kill ANY animal just for the heck of it. The snakes were there first, and humans have invaded their territory. Killing them without a good reason is just wrong.


It's called getting a point across. Since she/he/it can't comprehend the point I'm trying to get across I'm taking the same hypocritical stance as she/he/it so they can see how ridiculous they sound.

Sorry, when somebody says that they'd 'enjoy killing' my pets, I don't take too kindly to that especially when there are better ways of diffusing a harmless situation before it escalates.


----------



## Willowy

Ah, OK, I thought you were serious. 

Nope, anyone who enjoys killing any living being is too cruel for my tastes. I judge people almost solely on how they treat animals. I expect anybody I spend time with to treat all living beings with respect. So of course I would never choose anyone like Adelyn as a friend IRL.


----------



## Adelyn

Willowy said:


> Ah, OK, I thought you were serious.
> 
> Nope, anyone who enjoys killing any living being is too cruel for my tastes. I judge people almost solely on how they treat animals. I expect anybody I spend time with to treat all living beings with respect. So of course I would never choose anyone like Adelyn as a friend IRL.


Oh - thank goodness! I was worried for a minute you wanted to be my friend! Phew - I dodged that bullet! 

You see I don't fall for that "they were here first" BS! The world has evolved and now I am here - centuries later! I have NO PROBLEM killing an animal that can seriously injury MY CHILD or MY PETS that are on MY PROPERTY! 

I would bet if you had a child and a copperhead bit your child, you would feel differently. If you didn't then you are poor excuse for a mother! It's no different then a predator man sexually abusing a child. Any mother's first instinct would be to want to kill that man for doing that to their child. In that case, we are talking about humans, there are laws to follow. With a snake that can harm my child, you bet your a$$ I will kill it before it has opportunity to harm my child or my pet.


----------



## Sonn84

This thread has gotten a bit odd lol


----------



## Adelyn

Great Dane said:


> Please sweety - Copperheads are innocent much as in the same way your dog is. Please learn something about the species before you go off on a wild tangent portraying them as the devil.


HAHAHAHHAHA - ROFL!!!!!!!!







Great Dane said:


> Sweety - The Copperheads were there long before the deed was signed and they will remain there long after you're gone. It doesn't matter if the house was there before you bought it, the fact remains that you're in their habitat.


Honey - the world has evolved and I am here now! Too bad for the snake! I'm not falling for the guilt trip - I couldn't care less about a copperhead snake! 








Great Dane said:


> Really? Explain please.


Because I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for the evolution of this planet! 







Great Dane said:


> Your dog shouldn't have stepped on it than. Is your dog unable to possess the intelligence to watch where it steps? The Snake was protecting itself much like your dog would if it was in a confrontational, or what was thought to be a confrontational situation.
> 
> That's nice that you killed 2; it just goes to show what kind of person you are. What comes around goes around, karma is a bitch.


Thank you, I know it was nice! And the KARMA has been GREAT! I just got an offer on my house this evening! (I have it up for sale) So you're right - I must have done the right thing thanks KARMA!! 









Great Dane said:


> Keep that in mind next time your dog(s) step foot on somebodies property. Oh and sweety, you could kill my snakes, but you better believe that your dogs wouldn't live for very long after that. You can protect your pets all you want without harming another living, breathing animal but if you killed one of mine (snake), I'd love to see you stop me from killing your dog.
> 
> Like I said, karma is a bitch.


Honey - you crack me up!! You are so funny! It's pretty silly of you when your snakes will never see my property but you go on and think you might have a chance to kill my dog. (Trust me honey - you wouldn't even get close. Keep dreaming) Especially because you show your true Hypocritical colors! You say that people should not harm any animal yet you relish over revenge by killing my dog. I love hypocrites - they just crack me up. ROFL!!! 

Run along now - no one can take you seriously about not killing snakes when you keep threatening that you would kill my dog in revenge. 

I bet you take right after your snake....right? I mean they say owners take after their pets and you really seem like a snake so I have no doubt! Oh and they are soooo ugly!



Willowy said:


> Ah, OK, I thought you were serious.
> 
> Nope, anyone who enjoys killing any living being is too cruel for my tastes. I judge people almost solely on how they treat animals. I expect anybody I spend time with to treat all living beings with respect. So of course I would never choose anyone like Adelyn as a friend IRL.


Willowy - I'm not sure you would want to be friends with Great Dane either. She would have no problem killing my dog if her snake came on MY property and I killed it. Talk about a hypocrite! For someone to want to kill a dog over a snake is sick! - that's not a nice person at all! In fact - I think she's a snake herself! 

The difference is, I'd kill the snake to protect my pets and property. Great Dane is threatening to kill a dog out of pour revenge. Great Dane thinks that it's okay to kill a dog out of revenge but it's not okay to kill a snake on your own property to protect your pets/family?


----------



## Great Dane

Sonn84 said:


> This thread has gotten a bit odd lol


I actually regret dignifying it with a response in the first place.

All you need to do is look at the immature, nonsense riddled, childish post above mine to see what I'm talking about.

Ah, oh well; I deal with children pretty regularly. Good for a few laughs at least.



Willowy said:


> Ah, OK, I thought you were serious.
> 
> Nope, *anyone who enjoys killing any living being is too cruel for my tastes*. I judge people almost solely on how they treat animals. I expect anybody I spend time with to treat all living beings with respect. So of course I would never choose anyone like Adelyn as a friend IRL.


No, but it does look like my point flew right over a certain someones head, didn't it? No point in talking to a brick wall. 

I certainly agree with the bolded part.


----------



## Adelyn

Great Dane said:


> I actually regret dignifying it with a response in the first place.
> 
> All you need to do is look at the immature, nonsense riddled, childish post above mine to see what I'm talking about.
> 
> Ah, oh well; I deal with children pretty regularly. Good for a few laughs at least.


It was very immature and childish OF YOU to suggest killing MY DOG! YOU are the one who made it personal! I made a GENERAL STATEMENT that I WOULD kill a snake to PROTECT MY FAMILY AND PETS! 

I love how I point out what a hypocrite you are and now you are trying to cover up your stupidity by calling me childish. Whatever honey - you are the joke! Remember KARMA! 

Of course you will never be grown up enough to admit you should never have said you would kill my dog.


----------



## Great Dane

This will be the last time I will dignify your childish rants with a response, so listen carefully because I'm only going to say this to help you understand once.

Why I continue to take your bait hook, line and sinker is beyond me. Quiet night in the mountains I guess.



Adelyn said:


> Yes but killing one makes for one less in the world to deal with!





Adelyn said:


> A copperhead is not an "innocent animal"





Adelyn said:


> Please honey - copperheads are predators they ARE NOT INNOCENT!





Adelyn said:


> I am VERY PROUD TO SAY I KILLED 2 OF THEM TODAY!





Adelyn said:


> If your snake slithered (trespassed) on my property you better believe I'll kill it!





Adelyn said:


> *You bet I'd like killing* your snake should it slither onto my property!


It is easy for anyone with half a brain to see that you have a personal vendetta against serpents whether or not they're endangering you, your family or your pets; the comments from you quoted above make that perfectly clear.

Anyone who takes such pride in killing another living animal whether it's a snake or a dog or a cat is a very sick individual and should seek mental and professional help as soon as time permits; it's a very unhealthy obsession.

What you fail to notice is that my comments about killing your dogs are largely made as empty and sarcastic chides and are instead made in order for you to see from the other side of the spectrum. Clearly, you obviously have 'tunnel vision' and can't see the hypocritical ways of your views against serpents. Parading around and mentioning that you're proud you killed 2 Snakes? Wow, that takes a lot of courage; I guess if it makes you feel good or powerful, that's another issue entirely. You think I would really waste my time killing anothers animals because of their *mistake* killing mine? 

Wow, that point flew further over your head than I had ever imagined.

Your replies and thought is portrayed irrationally and in an insane fashion; I have no idea what you're trying to prove other than you self-admittedly enjoy killing snakes and feel the need to parade that fact around the internet. 

Finally, I am not a woman. For some reason I think you'd hesitate to say some of the things you've typed here face to face with me if we were to ever meet.


Have a goodnight; I don't much enjoy changing diapers.


Nice chatting with you.


----------



## Adelyn

Great Dane said:


> It is easy for anyone with half a brain to see that you have a personal vendetta against serpents whether or not they're endangering you, your family or your pets; the comments from you quoted above make that perfectly clear.


It was CLEAR IN MY FIRST POST THAT MY DOG WAS ATTACKED BY A COPPERHEAD SNAKE! I HAVE A VERY VALID REASON!! AND YES IT DID ENDANGER MY PET!! DUH! Do you even have a brain? 



Great Dane said:


> Anyone who takes such pride in killing another living animal whether it's a snake or a dog or a cat is a very sick individual and should seek mental and professional help as soon as time permits; it's a very unhealthy obsession.


You are the one in need of professional help! You think it's fair game to KILL A DOG out of revenge for a snake! 

Because I have no problem killing a poisonous snake on MY property that attacked my dog I need help - Please honey - you are stretching it! (And I am getting a major laugh right now!) Sorry - I have no sympathy for poisonous snakes! I DON'T CARE!! GET IT? So you like snakes - I DON'T! GET OVER IT! IT'S A POISONOUS SNAKE!




Great Dane said:


> What you fail to notice is that my comments about killing your dogs are largely made as empty and sarcastic chides and are instead made in order for you to see from the other side of the spectrum. Clearly, you obviously have 'tunnel vision' and can't see the hypocritical ways of your views against serpents. Parading around and mentioning that you're proud you killed 2 Snakes? Wow, that takes a lot of courage; I guess if it makes you feel good or powerful, that's another issue entirely. You think I would really waste my time killing anothers animals because of their *mistake* killing mine?



You are really screwed up in the head! You really think that your statement if your snake invades MY PROPERTY and attacks my dog and I kill it justifies YOU KILLING my dog? How is that even justifiable or even the same? Your snake is on MY PROPERTY! I was pointing out how stupid your statement was!!! If you still don't get it how about his....It's then same as saying..(I know you are not married but for the sake of this, lets say you are) Your "husband' breaks into my house to attack me and I shoot him then you have the right to revenge and shoot my child? I think not! I live in a state where I have every right to protect my property and family. I didn't say I run around the county looking for snakes to kill but you can't even see the difference! 




Great Dane said:


> Wow, that point flew further over your head than I had ever imagined.


It didn't fly over my head - I was pointing out how stupid you sound by making such a statement. A.) - because it doesn't make any sense. Your snake on my property gives me every right to kill it and you would have NO right to take revenge and kill my dog. B.) - Especially because you "claim" to not kill any animals yet in the next breath threaten to kill my dog. 




Great Dane said:


> Your replies and thought is portrayed irrationally and in an insane fashion; I have no idea what you're trying to prove other than you self-admittedly enjoy killing snakes and feel the need to parade that fact around the internet.
> 
> Finally, I am not a woman. For some reason I think you'd hesitate to say some of the things you've typed here face to face with me if we were to ever meet.


hahahahahaha - you really crack me up! So what if I killed copperhead snakes, my dog was attacked by one! I think that gives me valid reason whether you like it or not! Again - DEAL WITH IT! Not everyone likes them! Not everyone is a tree hugging PETA freak! 

I'm also a women and I would SO LOVE TO SAY IT TO YOUR FACE! I am not ashamed of myself or my beliefs. I'll even invite you over the next time I have a pig roast - how's that? Not only do I kill poisonous snakes but I roast pigs and EAT them too! 

I'm sure a lot of people are getting a kick out of seeing your reaction to me killing a poisonous snake that attacked my dog. After all - you responded to my post FIRST from the get go, and you went into a tizzy with your stupid statement threatening to kill my dog. Now - don't you feel stupid? 

Why do you even care what I do? Because you want to spread your animal rights gosspil to me - lady save your breath! Like I said in my first post - I love animals but when one comes on my property and attacks my pets or family - they will get a bullet in their heads and I have every right to do that! Doesn't make me a bad person. The difference between you and me is my pets and family come first. With you all animals come first - more than likely because you don't have a family. You can say all you want that you do but I will never believe you! No mother would ever want a copperhead snake around where her kids play, especially after it attacked her dog! 

Oh and how do you feel about the poisonous copperhead eating baby bunnies? There's a lot of bunnies here so I'm pretty certain that's what they were here for and personally, I'd rather have the bunnies then the snakes - the snakes can rot in hell! 





Great Dane said:


> Have a goodnight; I don't much enjoy changing diapers.
> 
> 
> Nice chatting with you.


Yup and you say I'm the childish one....keep it up honey! You are just making more of a fool of yourself!


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## mylittlebecky

you'd like a bunny population to explode and eat everything in sight and spread diseases? weird. snakes EAT bunnies for _food_, just thought you might want to know 

messing with the delicate balance of predator prey relationships has already caused too many problems. killing one predator is much worse than killing ten prey animals in terms of an ecosystem. killing snakes, just because, is not helping anyone's situation. you personally probably won't be able to eradicate copperheads in your lifetime, they'll just keep coming back.


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## Great Dane

Adelyn said:


> It was CLEAR IN MY FIRST POST THAT MY DOG WAS ATTACKED BY A COPPERHEAD SNAKE! I HAVE A VERY VALID REASON!! AND YES IT DID ENDANGER MY PET!! DUH! Do you even have a brain?


Considering you have to scream like a lunatic to try and defend your wild and irrational reasoning, all I'm going to say is you made it very clear that you would indeed attack any snake on the property whether it was poisonous or non venomous; attacking your dog or not. 




Adelyn said:


> You are the one in need of professional help! You think it's fair game to KILL A DOG out of revenge for a snake!


Here you go off on a wild tangent once again; please refer to my last post. Do you know what a chide is? Perhaps you need to look it up because I'm done explaining myself to somebody who needs to constantly hold down the Caps key.



Adelyn said:


> Because I have no problem killing a poisonous snake on MY property that attacked my dog I need help - Please honey - you are stretching it! (And I am getting a major laugh right now!) Sorry - I have no sympathy for poisonous snakes! I DON'T CARE!! GET IT? So you like snakes - I DON'T! GET OVER IT! IT'S A POISONOUS SNAKE!


Haha; you're getting the laugh? Funny, I get it from reading your posts. Here I am sitting nice and calm at the desk and all I can see portrayed through your thoughts is someone who is fuming at the mouth on the other side of the screen.

As I said; you've made it known that you would go out of your way to kill venomous snakes whether or not they're endangering you or any of your animals. Sorry, I have no respect for somebody who would so blatantly take the life of another animal when there are better alternatives to the situation.

And no, "IT WAS IN MY YARD!!!11!!!111" does not constitute putting a shovel through its head as you so kindly put it.





Adelyn said:


> You are really screwed up in the head! You really think that your statement if your snake invades MY PROPERTY and attacks my dog and I kill it justifies YOU KILLING my dog? How is that even justifiable or even the same? Your snake is on MY PROPERTY! I was pointing out how stupid your statement was!!! If you still don't get it how about his....It's then same as saying..(I know you are not married but for the sake of this, lets say you are) Your "husband' breaks into my house to attack me and I shoot him then you have the right to revenge and shoot my child? I think not! I live in a state where I have every right to protect my property and family. I didn't say I run around the county looking for snakes to kill but you can't even see the difference!


Yet another grade school insult how charming; please quote and show me where I said my Snake would attack your dog if on your property. Anybody with a comprehension ability clearly can see that I merely stated my Snake being on your property; nothing more, nothing less.

Your analogy is flawed based on the fact that you once again, clearly missed my point.




Adelyn said:


> It didn't fly over my head -


 You don't say. Could have fooled me again.



Adelyn said:


> I was pointing out how stupid you sound by making such a statement. A.) - because it doesn't make any sense. Your snake on my property gives me every right to kill it and you would have NO right to take revenge and kill my dog. B.) - Especially because you "claim" to not kill any animals yet in the next breath threaten to kill my dog.


As I said, remember that the next time your dog steps foot on someones front lawn; one toenail even, by your flawed and twisted logic your dog would have a bullet in its head before you count count to 3 whether or not the animal was confrontational or not. The person was just 'protecting' their property after all, right? That's my point and the point you simply refuse to comprehend.




Adelyn said:


> I think that gives me valid reason whether you like it or not!


That's where you're wrong again. Keep acting all high and mighty though.




Adelyn said:


> Not everyone is a tree hugging PETA freak!


Yes you're just furthering the insanity of your 'argument', if you can even call it that.

PETA freak?  If there was one organization I wish would simply drop off the face of the planet, that would be it.



Adelyn said:


> I'm also a women and I would SO LOVE TO SAY IT TO YOUR FACE! I am not ashamed of myself or my beliefs. I'll even invite you over the next time I have a pig roast - how's that? Not only do I kill poisonous snakes but I roast pigs and EAT them too!


You mean a woman?

Thanks for the invite but I think I'll have to give a heartfelt decline to such a generous offer.



Adelyn said:


> I'm sure a lot of people are getting a kick out of seeing your reaction


Pot calling the kettle black.

Do you need a description of that saying to help you understand what it means?

As I've stated numerous times; you're incredibly oblivious to anything other than your own 'points'; take a deep breath, settle down and rationally process my posts before you go off on tangents that in large part have little to do with what I typed.



Adelyn said:


> Why do you even care what I do? Because you want to spread your animal rights gosspil to me - lady save your breath! Like I said in my first post - I love animals but when one comes on my property and attacks my pets or family - they will get a bullet in their heads and I have every right to do that! Doesn't make me a bad person. The difference between you and me is my pets and family come first. With you all animals come first - more than likely because you don't have a family. You can say all you want that you do but I will never believe you! No mother would ever want a copperhead snake around where her kids play, especially after it attacked her dog!


Much like your animal right gospel about your dogs I suppose? So once again, you flip flop on your wild and crazy stance. First of all, because you've had one or two encounters with a Copperhead; you believe that gives you the proper reasoning to seek and kill whether or not it's providing a confrontation.

You want to continue with the personal insults? Go ahead; it's plainly obvious who the immature person here has, and most likely will continue to be.

Oh, I have family; but once again, that's none of your business, is it? You know nothing about me, so keep coming up with your crazy and wild assumptions; seems that you're good at it.



Adelyn said:


> Oh and how do you feel about the poisonous copperhead eating baby bunnies? There's a lot of bunnies here so I'm pretty certain that's what they were here for and personally, I'd rather have the bunnies then the snakes - the snakes can rot in hell!


I wish I knew how to respond to this gibberish; actually, scratch that; I don't.

For the last time I will spell it out incredibly clearly for you; I am not interested in playing your little game. Either take the time to read and comprehend or don't bother wasting my time replying with your crazy rants.

Lastly; your reading comprehension is put on display for all to see by missing the fact, not once, not twice but 3 times now mentioning that I am indeed, not a woman.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi

How I deal with snakes

I have this thing that is a long pole with a hook on the end...and I use it to pick them up from a safe distance, dropm in a bucket and pass off to ACO for relocation...most of the time...I have killed a few...one that was bunching itself about to lunge at my kid and the others I killed were for humane reasons..I.e. my dog catches snakes and tortures them...she steps on them just behind the head and treats them just like chew toys...so those guys get put out of their misery...


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## Adelyn

Great Dane said:


> Yet another grade school insult how charming; please quote and show me where I said my Snake would attack your dog if on your property. Anybody with a comprehension ability clearly can see that I merely stated my Snake being on your property; nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Your analogy is flawed based on the fact that you once again, clearly missed my point.


PLEASE tell me where I said I would just kill any snake? FROM MY ORIGINAL POST, I said if ANYTHING ATTACKS my pets or family they will get a bullet in their heads! I DIDN'T SAY I would kill just anything that comes on my property - you just have a way to mix up words! Or YOUR reading comprehension has little to be desired.





Great Dane said:


> As I said, remember that the next time your dog steps foot on someones front lawn; one toenail even, by your flawed and twisted logic your dog would have a bullet in its head before you count count to 3 whether or not the animal was confrontational or not. The person was just 'protecting' their property after all, right? That's my point and the point you simply refuse to comprehend.


If my dog escaped and attacked another dog or worse - a human on THEIR property you bet I would expect a bullet in their head and I would have no one to blame but myself!!

If my dog EVER attacked a human outside of my property I would put my dog down myself. (Even if they attacked a human on my property if it was unprovoked, if my dog was protecting her property - that's different - that is her job) 

But you didn't say that did you? You said if your snake was found dead ON MY PROPERTY you would then kill my animal! If my dog went on your property and killed your snake it's a different story. Why don't you go back and read what you first posted to me. Read all the people that posted after - even they were saying the same thing! You are the confused one! Why don't you man up and admit you were wrong. Oh - that would require balls - something you lack! 



Great Dane said:


> As I've stated numerous times; you're incredibly oblivious to anything other than your own 'points'; take a deep breath, settle down and rationally process my posts before you go off on tangents that in large part have little to do with what I typed.


Like I've said before - I will do what I want on my property and I don't give a crap if you like it or not! You are the one that just won't give it up! The more you tell me what I should do on my property the more I laugh! 





Great Dane said:


> For the last time I will spell it out incredibly clearly for you; I am not interested in playing your little game. Either take the time to read and comprehend or don't bother wasting my time replying with your crazy rants.


I heard that before but yet you still keep coming back. ROFL - hahahaha!!! 





Great Dane said:


> Lastly; your reading comprehension is put on display for all to see by missing the fact, not once, not twice but 3 times now mentioning that I am indeed, not a woman.


It was pretty late last night and I completely just assumed you are a woman. (I guess because the real men I know have no problem killing a poisonous snake to protect their family) If you think I'd be afraid to tell you to your face because you are a man you've got to be kidding! Now that is REALLY FUNNY! Believe me, you do not intimidate me! If anything - I think even less of you and would really LOVE the opportunity to say it to your face!

And I don't give a crap if you respect me or not! I'm not asking for your respect - you are meaningless to me! 

Oh and it cost money where I live to remove snakes. I already own a shovel so I'm not going to waste my money on a poisonous snake! Sorry - I have my priorities and a poisonous snake it not even on my list.



mylittlebecky said:


> you'd like a bunny population to explode and eat everything in sight and spread diseases? weird. snakes EAT bunnies for _food_, just thought you might want to know
> 
> messing with the delicate balance of predator prey relationships has already caused too many problems. killing one predator is much worse than killing ten prey animals in terms of an ecosystem. killing snakes, just because, is not helping anyone's situation. you personally probably won't be able to eradicate copperheads in your lifetime, they'll just keep coming back.


Perhaps you need to go back and read my original post - I NEVER SAID I will kill snakes "Just because" that is Great Danes twisting of words! He too can't read!

I said I will KILL a snake that attacks my dogs! Sorry but I just had a very large vet bill on Friday evening from the emergency room. Spending more money to have the snakes "removed" is NOT what I am willing to do when I can kill them for free! 

The snakes attacked my dog - they are dead now. I also warned my neighbors (almost everyone here has dogs) and I have since learned that several of my neighbors have also killed some copperheads over the last few months. (I am not the only one and I have NO GUILT after seeing my dog suffer!)


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## Great Dane

Adelyn said:


> PLEASE tell me where I said I would just kill any snake? FROM MY ORIGINAL POST, I said if ANYTHING ATTACKS my pets or family they will get a bullet in their heads! I DIDN'T SAY I would kill just anything that comes on my property - you just have a way to mix up words! Or YOUR reading comprehension has a lot to be desired.


You don't seem to get this but I have no problem with killing a Snake if it is both necessary and required; if it comes down to protecting and/or saving a life; I have done it before and I will do it again; read my previous replies in this thread, but..

Let me spell it out to you once again as your original post differs in context from the following quotes;

The following are comments that you have made -




Adelyn said:


> Yes but killing one makes for one less in the world to deal with!





Adelyn said:


> I am VERY PROUD TO SAY I KILLED 2 OF THEM TODAY!





Adelyn said:


> If your snake slithered (trespassed) on my property you better believe I'll kill it!





Adelyn said:


> You bet I'd like killing your snake should it slither onto my property!


So once again I point out that there is no mention in this *Hypothetical* situation that the snake on your property be it wild, domesticated, non venomous or venomous is either endangering you, your family or any of your pets. I made that very clear from the beginning that this was the case and you still proceeded to type that you'd enjoy killing the snake.

So I ask you again; hypothetically if my Snake; non venomous I might add escaped from my property and ended up on yours but minded its own business and found a nice warm spot to curl up in, would you leave it alone or kill it?

So is it your reading comprehension that needs to be examined or mine.






Adelyn said:


> If my dog escaped and attacked another dog or worse - a human on THEIR property you bet I would expect a bullet in their head and I would have no one to blame but myself!!
> 
> If my dog EVER attacked a human outside of my property I would put my dog down myself. (Even on my property if it was unprovoked, if my dog was protecting her property - that's different - that is her job)


See, if I was attacked by your dog; in all reality my last resort would be to kill it. If my life was endangered, I'd have no choice obviously but I'd look for better alternatives to diffuse the situation beforehand.






Adelyn said:


> Like I've said before - I will do what I want on my property and I don't give a crap if you like it or not! You are the one that just won't give it up! The more you tell me what I should do on my property the more I laugh!


The only reason I keep coming back to you is because of the insults you have tried to sling my way. Do what you want on your property; you're one person and I couldn't really care less. Just don't tell me you enjoy or like killing another animal as outlined above.




Adelyn said:


> I heard that before but yet you still keep coming back. ROFL - hahahaha!!!


Yep, I put up with your tangents. I'm a pretty patient person. 





Adelyn said:


> It was pretty late last night and I completely just assumed you are a woman. (I guess because the real men I know have no problem killing a poisonous snake to protect their family) If you think I'd be afraid to tell you to your face because you are a man you got to be kidding! Now that is REALLY FUNNY! Believe me, you do not intimidate me! If anything - I think even less of you and would really LOVE the opportunity to say it to your face!
> 
> Oh and it cost money where I live to remove snakes. I already own a shovel so I'm not going to waste my money on a poisonous snake! Sorry - I have my priorities and a poisonous snake it not even on my list.


Real men also think rationally and don't scream into their computers.

I'd like to see you insult me to my face, that's what I meant by that comment. Your opinion is just that and you're entitled to it; everybody has one, no one is more important than the other. Just so you don't get yourself in a knot, that's mine included. 




Adelyn said:


> Perhaps you *need to go back and read* my original post - I NEVER SAID I will kill snakes "Just because" that is Great Danes twisting of words! He too can't read


You see the irony in the bolded part I hope.



Adelyn said:


> I said I will KILL a snake that attacks my dogs!


Like I said, I have no problem with protecting a pet from another pet/animal.

If I found my dog or any other animal unthinkingly attacking my snakes without reason, I'd kill that animal too.


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## Adelyn

Great Dane said:


> I'd like to see you insult me to my face, that's what I meant by that comment. Your opinion is just that and you're entitled to it; everybody has one, no one is more important than the other. Just so you don't get yourself in a knot, that's mine included.


Bring it! I have no problem insulting a man to his face! Men don't scare me and they certainly DON'T intimidate me! In fact, I am taller then most men and I just love looking down at them! I'm over 6 feet and I have NEVER met a man who intimidates me! 

You have a way of taking MY words out of context! I continuously said "If my pets/family are attacked!" 

When I said "I would enjoy killing your snake should it slither onto my property" that was me pushing your buttons and what a laugh I got out of it - man you are wound pretty tight. Have you gotten "any" lately? I suggest you do! You obviously need it! 




Great Dane said:


> Like I said, I have no problem with protecting a pet from another pet/animal.
> If I found my dog or any other animal unthinkingly attacking my snakes without reason, I'd kill that animal too.


I rest my case!


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## Great Dane

Adelyn said:


> Bring it! I have no problem insulting a man to his face! Men don't scare me and they certainly DON'T intimidate me! In fact, I am taller then most men and I just love looking down at them! I'm over 6 feet and I have NEVER met a man who intimidates me!


That's nice; can you tell that I really don't care?

You've portrayed yourself irrationally in this thread so I really don't know what to believe and what not to believe from you.



Adelyn said:


> You have a way of taking MY words out of context! I continuously said "If my pets/family are attacked!"


Again, Pot calling the Kettle black.

Read your posts again. 



Adelyn said:


> When I said "I would enjoy killing your snake should it slither onto my property" that was me pushing your buttons and what a laugh I got out of it - man you are wound pretty tight. Have you gotten "any" lately? I suggest you do! You obviously need it!


Uh huh, I'm all for you getting a laugh out of my posts as it seems you dearly needed to lighten up. I doubt it was as big a laugh as I got from your screaming and cap locks however. 

You needn't be concerned about my sex life. It's just fine, thanks.






Adelyn said:


> I rest my case!


Hallelujah!


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## Adelyn

Whatever....I've had my fun.....

I have to go out and check out my yard - there just might be a copperhead I can kill. Oh joy! I have my shovel in one hand and my 45 in the other. Ya think the 45 might be overkill? 

Have a nice life


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## GroovyGroomer777

You guys are silly!

Adelyn - I, too, would kill something if it attacked my family or pets. However I think you are misunderstanding Great Dane's words and getting slightly hysterical.


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## xoxluvablexox

I've never seen a snake other then a little gardener snake when I was younger. I live in Jersey and I know there are a lot of snakes here I've just never seen them. My father actually saw a poisonous water snake laying at the side of a lake at a local park. A lot of kids go swimming in that lake during the summer and I've never heard about anyone getting bit but I'm sure there's probably more then that one snake there. 
Personally I love snakes and if I ever saw a snake in my yard I would probably just stick it in a bucket and move it somewhere else. Even if it bit someone or my dog. What's killing it going to do? It's not going to change the past, it's not going to stop more snakes from comming onto your property. There's really no point. I would be pissed. But killing the snake wouldn't do shit. 

I understand some people just don't like snakes. That's fine. You don't like snakes then do something to keep them off the property. Like a snake fence(?) that I think I read about in a post earlier in this thread. Killing snakes that come onto your property isn't going to keep more snakes from coming onto your property. And one day your going to miss a snake and it's going to end up biting a child or your beloved dog or yourself. So why not try to prevent them from getting onto the property instead of worrying about finding and killing them when they do get onto your property?


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