# Gotta love 2x2 method



## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

My pup is almost 14 months old, I started her last week on Garrett's 2x2 weaves, somedays I could only train twice and one day we didn't get to train at all and one day was only once. Results for 8 days, 4 poles, in line, with speed and drive, wicked entries from anywhere on the arch, me static or moving. Yeah I am very happy!!! Garrett is brillant for developing this method which imo is by far the easiest way to train weaves.:bounce:


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

I just go the DVD and it is pretty brilliant. I've done about three sessions under twenty minutes each and am still on 2 wide open. That's a combination of things though, Gatsby hasn't been his super motivated self lately and we've been doing lots of work on heeling which includes a) don't go on without me and b) wait for direction, don't offer it. So we've got that hurdle to get over, but I'm still very excited about the method. I'm just a little stumped about the cross training issue.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Do you have an actual 2x2 set? 

I retrained Webster with 2x2 using the standard 3-pole bases. He just wasn't getting the idea of the channel/weave-o-matic methods. The lightbulb just flipped on and his weaves are already better than Kim's, who has been been weaving for over a year now. 

Glad to hear it's worked out well for you


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

Shaina said:


> Do you have an actual 2x2 set?
> 
> I retrained Webster with 2x2 using the standard 3-pole bases. He just wasn't getting the idea of the channel/weave-o-matic methods. The lightbulb just flipped on and his weaves are already better than Kim's, who has been been weaving for over a year now.
> 
> Glad to hear it's worked out well for you


Yes I have the 2x2's and I only train for a max of 3-5 mins per session. I set an egg timer and when it dings we are finished for that session. I ran into on problem and that was because I didn't reward enough between the two sets at first to reinforce the first set and the entry. Smartened up, went back and trained it right.......problem solved lol.

We have retrained weaves with dogs that were already running agility with success but this was the first time I had tried it with a completely novice dog.

I am now going to use them for my classes, however it will be a 4 week course, 2 classes a week 3 days apart and it will be a combo of independant contact training and learning the 2x2's. Students are also able to take home the extra sets of 2x2's that I have, so they will be able to train at home and follow the program. I figure it will be easy to get the dogs doing 6 poles within the 4 weeks, then we can add the second set and continue training as normal in once a week classes. Frankly it was the only way I could figure out how to remain on the program correctly and many of my students are looking forward to it.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

Without giving away stuff from the DVD or anything, what exactly is the difference between the "2x2" method and the "channel" method? I've seen examples of both, but they seem exactly the same to me... The bars start off far apart while the dog runs down the middle, and the bars get closer. The only difference I could really pick out is that the base is designed differently. I assume there's something I'm missing.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

TorachiKatashi said:


> Without giving away stuff from the DVD or anything, what exactly is the difference between the "2x2" method and the "channel" method? I've seen examples of both, but they seem exactly the same to me... The bars start off far apart while the dog runs down the middle, and the bars get closer. The only difference I could really pick out is that the base is designed differently. I assume there's something I'm missing.


The two methods are not the same or even close imo. 2x2's is shaping and building value for the entry with just two poles at first, you then start to slightly turn the first poles before adding the second set, then you progress to a second set at a distance, while still reinforcing for a proper entry from all positions, you then start to bring them closer together and turning them so they are more inline and so on.
The problem with channels, is you have to close them quickly and there can often be a long process of training the dog with the quide wires and ensuring that the dog doesn't jump/duck under the quides. Not to mention that dogs first learn to run past poles until it is closed enough for some weave action. As Garrett states in the DVD, it can take an hour to train the quide wires alone, whereas in under one hour you can have a dog confidently and using speed doing 6 inline poles with wicked entries and not having to fade the quides which you can't use when competing. Granted that hour of training is spread out over a week because you are shaping an independant weave performance and shaping does require a dog to think and figure things out without being prompted or lured, therefore the sessions have to be short because shaping is mentally challenging on a dog.

I have seen a lot of dogs over the years get frustrated while learning the weaves and that has been with many different methods. With my own experiences and from talking to others that use it, that is the one thing we all noted........happier dogs and that very quickly understood their jobs and what they were doing, that alone is the bonus.
I have tried a lot of different methods over the years, and I much prefer this one


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

LynnI said:


> My pup is almost 14 months old, I started her last week on Garrett's 2x2 weaves, somedays I could only train twice and one day we didn't get to train at all and one day was only once. Results for 8 days, 4 poles, in line, with speed and drive, wicked entries from anywhere on the arch, me static or moving. Yeah I am very happy!!! Garrett is brillant for developing this method which imo is by far the easiest way to train weaves.:bounce:


Tag "got" 2x2's, too  He already had the concept of weaving down, but he was confused on entries and wasn't speeding through. He went from missing entries and "hopping" side to side, to nailing entries and running through (the wider-spaced weaves help I think). I'm glad you're having fun; we love it! (I don't have 2x2 poles, I have 2 sets of 3 poles, but since Tag already had the weaving concept in his mind it didn't seem to matter, I was able to put the bases where I needed them to be. Helped him weaving on variable surfaces; floor or weave bases! <G>)


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

Update:

So three weeks later and many missed days of training, Who can now do 6 poles inline, lovely entries, and do them in a sequence. She 'gets it' and she powers with speed in them. Digging in so much that she kicks up dirt. Tonight, I had released her to do her own thing and play while I talked to someone..............she took off to the weaves which were about 25 ft away, did an off side entry from halfway down the poles, weaved with speed and then came back to me  Tomorrow I am going to an open agility practice at a place where her first trial will be, I am taking my 2x2's. It will be interesting to see if she can work plus do the poles with 20 strange dogs working at the same time.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

LynnI said:


> Update:
> 
> So three weeks later and many missed days of training, Who can now do 6 poles inline, lovely entries, and do them in a sequence. She 'gets it' and she powers with speed in them. Digging in so much that she kicks up dirt. Tonight, I had released her to do her own thing and play while I talked to someone..............she took off to the weaves which were about 25 ft away, did an off side entry from halfway down the poles, weaved with speed and then came back to me  Tomorrow I am going to an open agility practice at a place where her first trial will be, I am taking my 2x2's. It will be interesting to see if she can work plus do the poles with 20 strange dogs working at the same time.


Yay!!! The lightbulb is ON!  When Tag was reliably finding his entry on 3 poles, I got antsy and threw the other 3 at the end of the line and he automatically weaved 6. It's so exciting when they start realizing how to do X behavior in many contexts; they truely understand! Since we started playing around with 2x2's, he's missed his entr maybe 2 or 3 times...mainly because he was in a hurry and it was so convinient


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

I want to teach Sawyer to weave using the 2x2 method when he's old enough. Libby didn't learn 2x2, but she has very solid, confident weaves. It took her a loooong time to get there, though!

Lynn, I would love to see a video of Who weaving!

Oh, and where would one get a copy of the 2x2 instructions?


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

Squeeker said:


> I want to teach Sawyer to weave using the 2x2 method when he's old enough. Libby didn't learn 2x2, but she has very solid, confident weaves. It took her a loooong time to get there, though!
> 
> Lynn, I would love to see a video of Who weaving!
> 
> Oh, and where would one get a copy of the 2x2 instructions?


I am on cloud nine!!! I took Who to the open agility practice and she did amazing! Only left me once to go visit another dog and was very good about all the distractions and strange dogs. She was a bit worried about the huge blowers at the end of the building, they were a pretty scary monster to her. (The practice and trials are held in a Soccer Dome, one of the blow up kind.) We didn't get a chance to work on the Frame but she did everything else including 6 poles inline, (I didn't take my 2x2's). I didn't plan on sending her into the poles but she offered them and was successful!!!! 

I entered her in 3 FEO/Training runs at the trial that evening and I am so proud of my baby dog. The bobbles that we had were babydog stuff and me not supporting her enough (too use to running a very experienced dog with huge distance skills lol).

I promise to post a video of her this week doing weaves

Squeeker, I would recommend that you purchase the dvd, you can get it from Clean Run or from Garretts site www.clickerdogs.ca (com?) X-mas is coming up and it would make an awesome gift.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

That's awesome, Lynn! Can't wait to see the vid! How old is Who again?

Thanks for the info about the 2x2 as well. I'll check that out!


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

She turned 14 months old on Oct 13th, it is recommended that weaves not be taught until the dog is at least 13/14 months old and even later depending on the breed. So I waited until now to start her.


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