# Met our Goldendoodle puppy (4 weeks old) and have a few questions



## GoldenDoodleMommy (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi! We found what seems to be a great breeder, and are excited about getting our first puppy! He is a goldendoodle (mom is petite standard poodle around 55lbs, dad is the Golden Retriever around 85lbs). This is the moms first pups and she had a litter of three. This weekend we went to meet our puppy, who just turned 4 weeks. Our puppy seems to be the smallest, and has more petite features then his brother and sister. When we meet him this weekend he seemed a bit more timid than his siblings. While they were playing he was off to the side at times. At other times, when napping they would all curl up together. He let us hold him, pet him, etc- just seemed to be not as playful as the other two. 

We met the parent dogs who were awesome, and super friendly with us and our children (ages 2 and 5) 

My questions are:

Should I be concerned that our dog is the smallest? The breeder will do the first vet check up, and has a one year guarantee

Should I be concerned that he is more timid than his siblings? 

Any guesses on how big he could get? Any tell tale signs to look for (paw size etc)

Thanks!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

As a mix, the puppies are not going to be as consistent in size or appearance as a pure breed would. As long as he is otherwise healthy, I wouldn't worry about him being the smallest. My puppy Squash was the smallest of his litter and now at around 5 months he's the biggest.

ETA: It's way too soon to predict how big he will get. There are various rules of thumb for predicting adult weight, the one I usually use is to double the weight at 4 months, but even at that it's just a ballpark.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Just a few questions: were the parents health checked for hips, heart and eyes? Hobby breeder (oh you are gonna get flack for that, just warning you) still needs to be clear about proper health testing (not just a vet check) to keep the risk of unhealthy pups low.

As for the puppy itself. Smaller is not necessarily the weakest. How small is small? You say that at times he was off at the side, did he still participate occasionally? I certainly would not pick the most playful pup in a litter, I would pick a calmer one myself..especially since you have small children...though not a fearful pup either..so a lot depends on his body language at the times he was hanging outside the gang. As for size, paw size is not really an accurate gauge, though sometimes if the wrists etc are large it can indicate a potential for growth...but with a mixed breed it's a bit of a gamble..I've seen doodle boys grow upwards of ninety pounds (big for both breeds that go in the mix) but I've also met many that topped out at 55. 

Also, just because the parents were good with your kids, never assume that your puppy will be. Kids and dogs are never to be left unsupervised together. Never. Kids should not be hugging dogs, bothering them when they're sleeping, eating or chewing on a toy etc. Since both young children and dogs have about the same amount of self control (though dogs can be very self controlled at times) it is best for mum and dad to have the last say and protect both kids and dog from unsafe/unpleasant behaviours.


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## GoldenDoodleMommy (Apr 18, 2011)

Thank you! First time posting. Removed "hobby"  

Yes! The parents were checked for hips, heart and eyes! Sorry, should have mentioned that!

He looks more petite than his brother and sister- its noticeable- but the difference isnt great. I will ask about their weights and let you know

He did participate at times- when they went to nap he went with them. When they started to play a bit, he would too- but there were times when it was just the other two pups while ours was off to the side. I wasn't sure if this should be something that would be a concern or not. 

Thank you for all the advice. We have researched, and researched and researched before making the purchase. We have tried to read everything we can about puppy training, and would absolutely never leave him alone with the kids- even for a minute- for the dogs sake, and for theirs.


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## Hodder (Apr 12, 2011)

When I went with my father to get his Pomchi puppy, the 'breeder' was very eager and happy to answer questions.

Then we looked at our chosen puppy. Out of three, he was off to the side, very timid. He was also very petite compared to the other two. Would shake, constantly, while the other two just bowled him out of the way for attention. Occasionally he would try to come over, but not much. Got him out of there, and we were horrified because we got a sick dog. Ended up taking him to the vet a day later. However, he's a wonderful dog now.

Come to find out, it's siblings had basically bullied him away from food and got way too rough during playtime. The 'breeder' did not notice any of this going on.

This sounds like a similar case where he may not be getting fed, and/or may be getting bullied by siblings. I suggest you keep an eye on this puppy.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

GoldenDoodleMommy said:


> Thank you! First time posting. Removed "hobby"
> 
> Yes! The parents were checked for hips, heart and eyes! Sorry, should have mentioned that!
> 
> ...


My oldest (Dude, 10 years, papillon) was the "quiet and reserved" puppy of the litter. He was an old soul as a puppy, and has been (all his life) a somewhat low energy dog. He's never been one to require hours of exercise a day, and even as a young pup would have brief play spurts and then be happy enough to curl up and nap or quietly watch what was going on. 
That said, 4 weeks is pretty young to determine the adult personality.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

If your puppy has a one year guarantee it is not long enough to rule out seizure disorder (a poodle issue) and hip dysplasia (a Golden Retriever issue) which cannot be diagnosed on X ray until the dog is over 2 years old. Just letting you know that right up front. Hip, eyes, heart checks are usually done by specialists and xrays are required for hips and elbows. The breeder should be able to provide certifications of all these things from the specialists (CERF for Eyes, OFA or PennHip for elbows and hips etc.).

Since this is an F 1 cross (a mutt for all intents and purposes) you will get puppies that are like either parent and some that have obvious phenotypical traits of both. I would nto be concerned about a puppy not engaging in play.. but one that stays off by himself and is inactive a lot may not feel well (you only saw him for a little while too.. so he may have just been tired). Did this puppy come up to you or was he 'shy' with you all? I would be concerned if he acted fearful or shy. 

If this is your first dog, I would suggest you read the book, "Raising a Puppy you can Live With." Used copies are avaialble for little money from Barnes and Noble etc.


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## JessCowgirl88 (Mar 15, 2011)

when i got my dog winter she was the smallest and was very shy... Now.. she is a ball of energy and you would never guess it was the same dog lol.

and like cracker said which i agree with 100% just because the parents were great with the kids, doesnt mean the pup will be.

If you do get him, i would just keep an eye on him and like everyone has said get proof the the health checks. better safe then sorry imo


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

All these posts make me scared about my dog. I've no idea of his parents' history...and german shepherds AND labs are hip dysplasia candidates. loooovely.


Anyway, mine was the so-called "quiet" one of the litter. Until I got him home.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

The male dog was 30lbs heavier than the female dog? 

Glad to hear that the parents were checked for hips, hearts and eyes. I still wouldn't buy from anyone who offered only a one-year health guarantee, though. I need at least two years but prefer three (I've rarely seen more than that, although I have a friend who got a five-year guarantee from her minpin's breeder). Most health issues don't show up until after the first year, so all a one-year guarantee does is make the breeder look good to people who don't know any better. I feel that if someone can guarantee their pups for only one year, they don't have much confidence in their dogs' health.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Mutts are difficult to predict. I raised one of my mutts from a pup. Parents unknown, she was a shelter dog. She was 5.8 lbs at 5 weeks and looked like a miniature Dachshund. The vet said she would not be bigger than 15 lbs as an adult. Yeah, she was 30 lbs at 6 months and has topped off as an adult at 55 lbs. 

No predicting at 4 weeks old, either. Size or what they may be like as an adult. Any good breeder would match you with a puppy based on what they feel is right, but temperament will develop as it develops. You will have a hand in that as well. 

I would pass on a breeder that only offered a 1 year health guarantee, however.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Agreed on not being able to accurately guess weights. Gracie, a supposed GSD/Husky cross was 13 pounds at 3 months and she had good size feet. We were told she would be somewhere between 50-60 pounds. She weighs, on a "fat" day, 38 pounds.

And I do hope that all the testing was done. Doodles are cute, but just because they are "mutts" doesn't mean the "breeder" shouldn't have to health test. And I agree with TWAB--for larger dogs who may not show hip problems until they are around 2, a one year guarantee seems shoddy.

If you decide to get this puppy even if the testing wasn't done, enjoy your puppy and know that you may have to deal with occasional problems in the future. And if it is your first dog, hold on--it is a bumpy ride!


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## GoldenDoodleMommy (Apr 18, 2011)

Thank you. I really appreciate all of your opinions and advice. I will ask the breeder about upping the guarantee to two years- great tip!

The pup does seem a bit shy. When we went to meet him and we were sitting on the floor he walked over to my husband, but stopped short of going into his hands. Is 4 weeks to young to expect a puppy to run into ones' hands? The other two pups seem to jumping at the chance to run up to us. 

The other two pups also seemed to stick together constantly- when they played they were right together- like touching side by side- ours would be a few inches away. Though there were times when ours would go over to the other two and interact with them, climb on them, etc. 

when i figure out how to post a pic i'll show ya what I mean










Maybe I am just being paranoid lol. Ours is the one to the side. It just seemed like the other two were attached at the hip while ours was doing his own thing more


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Four weeks is too young to predict whether this is shyness, or if the pup is just a more reserved, independent personality or was simply a bit tired. I'd go see the pups again at six and eight weeks. I would also ask to SEE the CERF, OFA and PEnn Hip results on the parents. Oh and if there was a large size differance the pup may just take more after the smaller dog, it is after a all first generation (F1) cross; what most here refer to as a mix and some as a mutt (not meant as a put down BTW) and size, coat type and body type will be far less predictable and could lean far towards one parent or another or end up perfectly in between.


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## GoldenDoodleMommy (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks Carla! We are scheduled to go back at 6 and 8 weeks already! I will ask to see the papers then. I heard that the coat type is totally unpredictable with the F1s.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Nothing is predictable with F1's, very little is predictable with F2 or F3 it takes several generations to get a standard and even then throwbacks can occur (look at Mastiff Fluffies, which happen because the St Bernard was used to revive the breed nearly 100 years ago when it nearly went extinct). It sometimes takes decades of selection of the best pups (dogs) that fit to the desired standard (once it's set) and breeding for those traits to get a true breed. It took Joseph Doberman and his friends nearly 40 years to perfect the Doberman Pinscher.


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## Polywoggy (Mar 7, 2011)

My Golden was by far the smallest of her litter. She was also the one that would go off by herself more when she was in her litter. Willow had no problem warming up to people, the first year she was excitable of course, but matured into a very calm dog. Most people describe her as being very "docile" and people often have remarked that she would have made a great "therapy" dog. She loves to meet new people, but will sit quietly and flutter her lashes at them while she's being petted. She was never the jump-all-over and slobber-to-death type. Her and I are very bonded, yet she will seek attention when she wants, and go off to lay by herself when she wants. She has always been independent. 
As the smallest of her litter, she has been a very healthy dog all of her life until now. She will be 13 yrs in August and has cancer now. Heartbreaking for me, but this is their "average life span". She had never had any need for vet care her entire life other than the expected and routine vaccinations and heartworm tests etc. Just be aware that the Goldens are a breed in which cancer rates are unfortunately high- but then poodles have one of the lower rates.
Our family dog when I was a kid was an American Eskimo and what we called in those days- the "runt". She was also very independent. This is by no means any indication of what your puppy will be like, but just my experience.

We all know people have strong opinions about "designer dogs". It would take some time for a standard to be consistent, but if done with the highest of care and thought and scruples- I admit Goldendoodles are very appealing. I wish they would find a better name though... and... they are breeding them in 4 different sizes and I personally do not like the smallest 2 sizes. The Golden in them seems to get lost by that point and they are yet another minipoo cross.

I must say- adorable!


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## GoldenDoodleMommy (Apr 18, 2011)

Thank you so so much for reassuring me


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Can the breeder show you proof that she had hips & elbows checked? Saying it isn't good enough, I have also seen doodles go for more then $1000 I don't mean to be rude or pry but it doesn't seem logical for me to pay that much when I can go to my local shelter or rescue & pay a fraction, there are tons of Designer dogs there & you'd be saving a life.


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## GoldenDoodleMommy (Apr 18, 2011)

Yes! They have papers thank goodness 

We aren't paying $1000. Most shelters/rescues around here ask around $200-$350 for the pups- we aren't paying too much more than that and we got to meet the dogs parents which is important to us, especially with young kids.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

GoldenDoodleMommy said:


> Yes! They have papers thank goodness
> 
> We aren't paying $1000. Most shelters/rescues around here ask around $200-$350 for the pups- we aren't paying too much more than that and we got to meet the dogs parents which is important to us, especially with young kids.


Well.. papers aren't really worth more than the ink they're written in in refence to the dog. If they're just registration papers on the parents, that could just mean they are registered. Each parent should have, for example, a CHIC number you could look up online. My miniature Dachshund is AKC registered (papers were with him at the shelter) but he's got PRA and neither registration number from his parents yield any health test results and they were never registered or competed in any thing. 

Just something to know.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yes but your adoption fee goes to help another animal in need though. Jo, my rescue came with her shots, a month of health insurance, spayed & microchipped. I have never sewn a 'breeder' puppy come with all that. Sorry if I seem cynical of designer breeds, but I hate that they take homes away from deserving shelter dogs.


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## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

Pepper is a "designer breed" - Maltese x Yorkie. He was bred by a BYB in Fla., lived outdoors in a wire cage for his 1st year, and then recused from that hellhole. He isn't taking up a home that would otherwise belong to another dog. He is where he belongs.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

lisaj1354 said:


> Pepper is a "designer breed" - Maltese x Yorkie. He was bred by a BYB in Fla., lived outdoors in a wire cage for his 1st year, and then recused from that hellhole. He isn't taking up a home that would otherwise belong to another dog. He is where he belongs.


Then he's a rescue lol, im sure there are reputable designer breeders out there but I have never seen any sadly. Given the option I will always plug & puck rescue or shelter doggies.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I believe that at 4 weeks, all you have are loose personality trends. It is very easy to teach the pup Bite Inhibition and Socialization to turn the pup into a happy, friendly, confident dog. After you get the pup, bring people over to meet him. Then, after all 3 sets of shots, take him everywhere and introduce him to all kinds of dogs and other animals... and situations.


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