# Dog goes crazy when master leaves



## rolin99709 (Jan 16, 2009)

My dog goes crazy everytime i leave the room, she is a 2yo choc lab. Even if i go to the bathroom she starts pacing and whimpering. She can't be out of her kennel if i am not home. She drives my wife crazy acting this way. Is there any cure for this? Please somebody!


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Have you tried giving her something to distract her every time you leave? This way, she sees your departure as something yummy (like a kong stuffed with peanut butter)?


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## rambler (Dec 28, 2008)

try to get others to spend time with her besides yourself. That way she can latch onto them as well, it will be more of a balance.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

Work with her to help build her confidence (like obedience training), and on self-control exercises.


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## rolin99709 (Jan 16, 2009)

I haved tried to give her treats, toys, food just about everything. She has been to obedience training. I have had my brothers boxer over to play with her. She will be playing fine until i leave the room. After i leave she starts going nuts, if i come back into the room everthing goes back to normal, she starts playing like nothing ever happened. She loves my wife and my wife does spend time with her, i relly hope someone out there has a solution. I plane to start retreiver classes in feb at our local retreivers club and i would like to have this problem some what under control. Thanks for all the tips thus far, i will try each one again.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> She has been to obedience training.


Training is best on-going, throughout the dog's life. 

Establish a daily routine with structure.

Implement NILIF into daily life.

Work on self-control exercises. (How is she at waiting at doors, for example?) 30-min. down/stays every day work wonders!

How much exercise does she get daily?

What kind of mental stimulation is she provided daily?

I've had dogs do the same thing, and have successfully worked through the issues of being too dependent on me. I have a puppy right now who, 6 wks. ago, would scream and cry like she was being killed whenever I would leave the room, but, whose self-confidence is such now, that she displays none of that behavior. Due in large part through socialization efforts, exposing her to many different people, places, and things, in addition to obedience work, where communication between us was enhanced, which directly affects the well being of any dog. 

In addition, I would frequently come and go for short periods of time, always doing the same thing and using the same phrase when leaving, always doing/saying the same thing when returning, being very calm and low key. A ritual of sorts. Doesn't bat an eye now when I leave for work, much less when I leave the room.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

Try ignoring her for the next few weeks. Let your wife do everything. See if that helps.


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## rambler (Dec 28, 2008)

E-collar. 

You hide out of sight. The dog starts to exhibit negative and unwanted behaviors. You zap it. You continue the zaps until it stops. Once it stops, you hold off on any additional zaps. When the dog starts in again, you hit it with the negative reinforcement again. 

E-collars work incredibly well when they're used properly.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

rambler said:


> E-collar.
> 
> You hide out of sight. The dog starts to exhibit negative and unwanted behaviors. You zap it. You continue the zaps until it stops. Once it stops, you hold off on any additional zaps. When the dog starts in again, you hit it with the negative reinforcement again.
> 
> E-collars work incredibly well when they're used properly.


I'm completely uninformed as to using e-collars.

Can I get an opinion from the credentialed trainers on here... is this the "proper" way to use one?


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

rambler said:


> E-collar.
> 
> You hide out of sight. The dog starts to exhibit negative and unwanted behaviors. You zap it. You continue the zaps until it stops. Once it stops, you hold off on any additional zaps. When the dog starts in again, you hit it with the negative reinforcement again.
> 
> E-collars work incredibly well when they're used properly.


I'm not a trainer, but I would not take advice from someone who claims to use something properly and attempts to display knowledge of training animals while using the improper terms for it.

What you are explaining is Positive Punishment, not negative reinforcement. Negative Reinforcement is more like.. if I wanted to teach Priscilla to sit using a ecollar, I would use a continuous shock until she sits. And when her butt hits the ground, I stop the shock. This way I am strengthening (reinforcing) a behavior by stopping a negative thing. 

What you are trying to do is not reinforce a behavior as a consequence, but reduce a behavior as a consequence.

So um yeah, not to be consdesending, but I would strongly advise against this posters recommendation. And I have no intentions of trying to explain how to use a ecollar in a situation like this, as I feel all other possibilities have not been used up before this decision.



rolin99709 said:


> I haved tried to give her treats, toys, food just about everything. She has been to obedience training. I have had my brothers boxer over to play with her. She will be playing fine until i leave the room. After i leave she starts going nuts, if i come back into the room everthing goes back to normal, she starts playing like nothing ever happened. She loves my wife and my wife does spend time with her, i relly hope someone out there has a solution. I plane to start retreiver classes in feb at our local retreivers club and i would like to have this problem some what under control. Thanks for all the tips thus far, i will try each one again.


Do you crate the dog?

Obedience training may not help with her anxiety of being isolated from you. If you don't crate the dog, then I would look up how to crate train a dog. It can be a long process. It is much easier when the dog is younger, but a 2 year old dog is definitely doable. I've crate trained two adult dogs.


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## rambler (Dec 28, 2008)

RBark said:


> I'm not a trainer, but I would not take advice from someone who claims to use something properly and attempts to display knowledge of training animals while using the improper terms for it.
> 
> What you are explaining is Positive Punishment, not negative reinforcement. Negative Reinforcement is more like.. if I wanted to teach Priscilla to sit using a ecollar, I would use a continuous shock until she sits. And when her butt hits the ground, I stop the shock. This way I am strengthening (reinforcing) a behavior by stopping a negative thing.


Nope, YOU got it wrong. I explained it the SAME way you did with Priscilla, I said you zap the dog until it calms down and gives you the behavior you want- the lack of the anxious behavior. The behavior happens, you zap..and you continue zapping as necessary to make the wanted behavior emerge. 

NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT

Plus the guy said he wanted a "credentialed trainer to respond" and the first thing you said was you aren't a trainer, and you responded anyway.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Actually, nevermind. I don't feel like debating with you. I'll just let someone else answer.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm pretty sure a dog would become more anxious and frenzied the longer it is being shocked, therefore, you would never get the desired behavior.

Now I don't agree with the sit method either, because there's a big chance the dog would have no clue what you were doing for a very long time, and it would be easier and better for the dog to simply train it to sit by using treats or a clicker.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Pepper said:


> I'm pretty sure a dog would become more anxious and frenzied the longer it is being shocked, therefore, you would never get the desired behavior.
> 
> Now I don't agree with the sit method either, because there's a big chance the dog would have no clue what you were doing for a very long time, and it would be easier and better for the dog to simply train it to sit by using treats or a clicker.


I'll have to expand on that then, since you are commenting on that. The negative reinforcement sit method is not used to teach the dog. You have to teach the dog to sit, and it needs to be proofed before you used that method.

However, I would never use a e-collar for that. I only used that as a example of what Negative Reinforcement is, and how it differs from Positive Punishment.

When a dog performs an undesirable behavior, and you try to decrease that behavior using aversives, it's a Positive Punishment. So when a dog cries, you zap it, that's Positive Punishment.

I'll leave it to Curbside to explain both methods better than I. I seem to have difficulty putting my understanding into words that make sense to people. But I am not advocating using a e-collar in this instance, in fact, I am strongly against it. A dog cries because it's anxious, and scared. Hurting it on top of that sounds illogical and inhumane to me.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

Oh okay, I thought that's what you meant about the sit thing, in that context then I could see how the dog would understand. 

I thought you just meant standing there and zapping the dog until it decided to sit O_O

A shock collar should not be used on an anxious dog. Then instead of being anxious about the owner, it could then become anxious about being shocked.

That's how it works with dogs with Separation anxiety, you ignore them for 10 minutes before leaving, and when coming home. That way they are not anxious about you leaving, or coming home. If you excitedly greet them as you enter the door, they will be anxiously looking forward to that greeting.


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## smileypits (Dec 25, 2008)

oh geez - why would anyone use a e-collar on anything?! Don't recommend that if at all possible.

I would try what the westhilander recommended. Ignore the dog completely and have your wife do the NILIF program with her. Look it up through google, you should see some results with a lab within 2-5 days, but you have to be strong and totally act like she isn't there. Endure the pain.


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## munki6 (Jan 21, 2009)

RBark said:


> I am not advocating using a e-collar in this instance, in fact, I am strongly against it. A dog cries because it's anxious, and scared. Hurting it on top of that sounds illogical and inhumane to me.


I concur.

Our dog used to do the same thing, We'd toss him a treat ball and he'd doesn't even realize we've left lol. He's stopped doing that now 

Try that...I'm not so sure if it works on all dogs or anything, but it wouldn't hurt to try


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

rambler said:


> Nope, YOU got it wrong. I explained it the SAME way you did with Priscilla, I said you zap the dog until it calms down and gives you the behavior you want- the lack of the anxious behavior. The behavior happens, you zap..and you continue zapping as necessary to make the wanted behavior emerge.
> 
> NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT
> 
> Plus the guy said he wanted a "credentialed trainer to respond" and the first thing you said was you aren't a trainer, and you responded anyway.


Essentially you are using both.

The dog starts acting unruly, so you actively administer the pain (positive punishment). You continue administering pain until the behavior ceases, at which time you cease the pain as a reward (negative reinforcement).

My personal opinion is that this is the worst possible combination in terms of *teaching* the dog anything. You are most likely going with a dog exhibiting learned helplessness, best case scenario. Worst case scenario, the dog's anxiety levels skyrockets and the pain gets associated with other things (ie. being along, the presence of the rest of the family, etc.). Then you are in real trouble. 

Most people do not have the innate timing skills to use positive punishment/negative reinforcement training effectively, and the nature of those methods does not allow for a handler learning curve because you can damage your dog (physically, behaviorally) permanently.


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## rambler (Dec 28, 2008)

Shaina said:


> Essentially you are using both.
> 
> The dog starts acting unruly, so you actively administer the pain (positive punishment). You continue administering pain until the behavior ceases, at which time you cease the pain as a reward (negative reinforcement).
> 
> My personal opinion is that this is the worst possible combination in terms of *teaching* the dog anything. You are most likely going with a dog exhibiting learned helplessness, best case scenario.


I can understand from the above posts where an ecollar is probably not the best way to handle the symptoms of an anxious dog experiencing separation anxiety. 

But a combination of postiive and negative reinforcement seems to be just the trick for my dog. 

We're out for a walk, she's off leash, and I call her name (which means to come). She hesitates, looks at me, looks at some preferrable target, and doesn't move. She gets a shock. She comes right to me and gets a treat, and praise. 

That's powerful.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

rambler said:


> We're out for a walk, she's off leash, and I call her name (which means to come). She hesitates, looks at me, looks at some preferrable target, and doesn't move. She gets a shock. She comes right to me and gets a treat, and praise.


This, to my untrained perspective, sounds like an appropriate way to use an e-collar. Shocking an already stressed-to-the-max dog seems.... inhumane. I mean, seriously, if any highly credentialed aversion trainer (wvasko where are you?) comes in here and says that it's ok, I can't argue. But seriously.... that just seems wrong!


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## BoGs (Dec 18, 2008)

I have the exact same problem I put my pup in crate and he goes crazy - I tried to leave him out one day with baby gate to front door.... chewed the door nob and the window frames.... so back to crate and he cries and whines....

How do you teach him to sleep when we leave I am willing to do anything.....

PLEASE HELP

I leave kongs and treats and anything I can think of - he forgets about them and just cries then when we get home he comes out and goes and get the treats I left in morning.


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