# Are You Scared of Any Dog Breed in Particular? Be Honest...



## Lecky (Nov 27, 2014)

Yes, I am aware that all dogs can bite. When my husband was younger he was bit (not hard) by a golden retriever (lol) so he doesn't like them very much. I LOVE GOLDENS! I am pretty sensitive to dog behavior and can tell when not to approach. Although, there are some breeds that will surprise you from out of nowhere. I found this out once with my own dog Shelby (lab/pit? Mix) who was the sweetest, most gentle puppy I ever had. My roommate's mother brought over a small dog toy breed to the house, we were in my roomate's room and out of nowhere Shelby went after this poor little dog. She made this horrible primal growl and the poor dog was scared out of its mind. Shelby didn't bite the dog, but mouthed it because there was saliva left but no bite marks at all. I didn't know she had that in her. So I was weary with her and smaller dogs. She is fine now and lives with Rosie, our mini chihuahua, (married into the chihuahua, long story) just fine now...but it took a period of weeks for her to not growl at her. Now they sleep together and blah blah...

Anyway, besides that...I am a bit scared of Rottweiler's myself. I have NEVER had a bad experience with one ever. We took my 2 pups to the dog park on a leash (yes I know but they love that place, and Pickles just swam for her first time...I've never had a dog who loved the water!). So one time I was getting them out the car with my husband and this HUGE gorgeous (I might add), Rottie came up to us and the pups and right away I was on alert, but calm. I wanted to take the puppies to another spot in this huge park but the dog kept following us. He was more interested in the puppies than us, I was friendly and talked to the dog and eventually after his owner called him about 10 times he left us. He seemed okay, but I didn't like how his owner didn't have control over him. He looked like an adult Rottie, full grown, but very young, very healthy. I have read about the power of the Rottie bite, and that's all I could think of when he was sniffing my two 30lb pups. 

I think Rottweilers are gorgeous, but they frighten, intimidate me the most. I see tons of pits and think they seem more afraid than agressive and keep my eye out but it's not as intimidating. There are tons of GSDs at the park and most of them are pretty aloof and focused on whatever tasks they are doing at the moment. They don't seem interested in socializing at all so I don't push for it ever. I always wait and see how the owner of the dog perceives my two puppies before I let them meet their dogs. If it's concern, I steer clear. 

Why do Rottweilers scare me? I LOVE big dogs, and I don't want to be intimidated by them. I'd love to just pet one like I would a Golden (ha!) but it seems like not a good idea . They seem like they need to trust you, and I'm scared of their snap attack. One snap attack = death...seriously.

It's like I admire them like I would a tiger...from afar. Do any dog breeds have this affect on you?


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

I wouldn't say I'm scared of any breed, but dobes and mastiffs get a tonne of respect from me... and for dobes I generally don't even invade their space. (when I was a toddler a dobe went after me and somewhere deep in my subconscious it must have had a lasting effect).


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I don't think any breed -scares- me per say.

When I handle dogs at the shelter I always do so with an initial caution regardless until I get to know that dog more. I will say that there have been FAR more small snappy dogs that I've been more wary of than large ones.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

Pits, German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Cane Corsos, Filas, any of the large breeds known for guarding and aggression/temperament issues. They may be perfectly fine, but the propensity is there for trouble. They are very powerful also. I'm leary of labs as well, as I've known a few who are nut cases (aggression). My first dog, minpin, Gobie, was attacked by a german shepherd and then we were ambushed by two labs as well. 

I'm not so much "scared" as "very wary and respectful" of these breeds. I give them a wide berth!


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

SDRRanger said:


> I would say I'm scared of any breed, but dobes and mastiffs get a tonne of respect from me... and for dobes I generally don't even invade their space. (when I was a toddler a dobe went after me and somewhere deep in my subconscious it must have had a lasting effect).


I am the same.

Not really SCARED of a breed, but I will give the following breeds more space (from what I know of the breeds):
- Doberman
- Mastiff
- LGDs
- GSDs and other similar shepherds (Tervs, Mals, etc.)
- Akita

It's not that I'm scared of them, just that I know those dogs prefer not to be bothered by strangers.

Funnily enough, when I see a Pit I'm not even scared lol. If I have my dog with me, then yes, I will avoid them, but when it's just me and I see a Pit, I am sitting on the floor, petting the dog lol


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I am not automatically scared of any breed, but I am automatically cautious around any strong working breed until I get to know an individual and its owner.

I am more likely to anticipate being bitten by one of a handful of medium to small breeds, just based on past experience. Unfortunately, I see a lot of poorly bred dogs so a lot of breeds get a little ruined for me.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Not any particular breed but I have gotten the willies from certain large dogs that give off disconcerting vibes to me. There is a large black mutt at the park here and I just don't like that dog. I don't trust it at all. Can't pinpoint exactly why but I just think he's trouble.

I'm not one to go up and pet other peoples' dogs unless I know them. Just not my thing. I never reach out at dogs, only pet ones that come up to me clearly wanting attention. That probably stems from having an antisocial dog myself. I tend to assume dogs don't want me to pet them.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Not a fan of chows. Before Dog we were chased out of our own backyard when a chow pup found a hole in the fence and came in our backyard. Years later there were a pair of chows behind a 30" metal bar fence that would stare at you as you walked by. No jumping or barking or tail wagging, just a silent stare.

Not a fan of akitas. After they became so popular after OJ Simpson there were a lot around here and any encounter was unpleasant. A couple were actual dog killers, before I knew that they strayed up to me and my new dog and acted very stiff but not actually attacking. I opened an umbrella and kept it between the akitas and Sassy and they gave up and walked away. Another time a tied one broke the rope and made a restrained attack on Sassy, just scratching her rump a little. Another time a couple of large ones broke away from the owner and attacked a dog and also bit the owner of that dog. That person was an idiot, he weighed as much as just one of the dogs and they were completely out of control all the time on walks in the first place. I think those problem dogs were well known around here and I see a lot fewer akitas these days.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

German Shepherds and Labs for me. My dogs and I have been attacked by too many Labs and most GSDs that I've met just haven't been right. Very bite first, think later.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

There was a point where every miniature schnauzer I met wanted to eat my papillons. Could not stand the breed for a while. I've luckily gotten to know 4 agility handlers and their schnauzers well and am getting to like them better. Still little punks but in a good way lol.

It's amazing what good ownership does.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Chows and Akitas have a way of just. looking. at. you. That kind of aloof behavior makes we wary. I'd prefer a dog either be happy and wagging or showing some kind of outward sign of not wanting you there so you know to be cautious. When they just stare you don't know what they'll do next. Maybe they'll be friends, maybe they'll bite your face off. 

I'm wary of the guard breeds, the German breeds especially, (and I have a Rott!) because they tend to be Very Serious about doing their jobs of guarding the house/family. Don't want to make a move that could be seen as threatening. I'm not inclined to think they'll attack without reason, but I'm not going to stand around and argue about whether my actions constituted a good reason or not .


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> I'm not one to go up and pet other peoples' dogs unless I know them. Just not my thing. I never reach out at dogs, only pet ones that come up to me clearly wanting attention. That probably stems from having an antisocial dog myself. I tend to assume dogs don't want me to pet them.


Oh yeah, this too. I don't pet the dog unless the dog is clearly asking for attention, or I will ask the owners.

But I worked at a pet boutique and well the dogs of the owners are just as much customers as the owners. We always offered treats to the dogs, etc. so I "approached" a lot of dogs, but I always asked first.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> There was a point where every miniature schnauzer I met wanted to eat my papillons. Could not stand the breed for a while. I've luckily gotten to know 4 agility handlers and their schnauzers well and am getting to like them better. Still little punks but in a good way lol.
> 
> It's amazing what good ownership does.


They really are punks aren't they? The only one I've know who wasn't happened to be like eleven when i met her lol

I'm really not afraid of any dog. I am usually surrounded by dogs eanting butt scritches at the dog park. A few even go straight to me now because they know i'll give them a good scratch. I just watch body language. I will call a dog or hold out my hand but if they are uncomfortable i back off.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Chows and Akitas have a way of just. looking. at. you.


That's my thing with dobes (and to a lesser extent mastiffs). They have a calculating look (not a negative...just a "I'm adding up the pluses and minuses for what is going on")


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

SDRRanger said:


> That's my thing with dobes (and to a lesser extent mastiffs). They have a calculating look (not a negative...just a "I'm adding up the pluses and minuses for what is going on")


Hahaha, I think Luna has that look sometimes. Sometimes she just sits there looking at you, her entire body still except for the wagging tail tip, lol.


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## WonderBreadDots (Jun 26, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Chows and Akitas have a way of just. looking. at. you.


These are the only two breeds that will make me pause if I see them out loose.

I am not scared of any dog breed, I am terrified of irresponsible owners with untrained/poorly trained dogs.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Weird that some of you said Dobes. All the Dobes I have ever met have been the softest sucks.

The only breed that makes me a little hesitant are rotties. I've known quite a few and it took them awhile before they even somewhat trusted me. Even then, I always felt they were suspicious and always watching lol


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## Ezio (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm more scared of individual dogs then of whole breeds. 

I like ACDS, but am leery of my neighbors overweight, nasty tempered one. I once had to return his sweet Rottie who had wandered to my door, when out of nowhere this growling, barking tub of lard charged me. Luckily his owner came out and called him back. 

I love bully breeds, but was terrified of the one our landlord used to own. This was a huge, white, looked like an American Bulldog X Pit, who killed several animals and chased and almost got several people. Landlord ended up having to shoot it himself. 

I also don't wholly trust Akitas or Chows. The Chow X at the shelter, Fella, gives me this creepy feeling at times.


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

I don't ever approach a dog I do not know, so I've never really had a reason to be scared. I think I go more by the dog's body language and what it's wearing. Meaning if it's wearing a prong or a chain collar I will avoid it, because it can be an indicator of how the owner treats the dog. 

But I am definitely more cautious around large breeds and small/toy breeds. Large breeds because they can do a lot more damage to me if they want to. And small breeds because owners have a tendency to ignore stress signals because they're "cute," so they tend to have a shorter fuse. 

I feel like as long as you understand dog body language, you don't really ever have a reason to be scared of a particular breed. That being said, I will not touch your chihuahua. I have never met a single mean rotti or pitt in my life. They have always been sweet loving teddy bears. But mean chis are a dime a dozen. No disrespect to the _good _chi owners here. Unfortunately, in my experience, good chi owners are rare.


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

I would have said none, yesterday.

After today -- big dogs, no specific breed. The dog that attacked us today could have torn out my throat if he'd wanted to -- and he looked like he might want to at some point, but it was the sheer size of it that frightened me so much. But they were strays. I don't think I'd be afraid of any dog on a leash. With the owner there, it's different.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm not sure I'm fearful of any breed in particular, but I'm certainly uneasy around large, unsupervised dogs. I do think certain breeds look more intimidating than others, but many of them are the softest of the bunch.

Yeah, I don't approach dogs I don't know; if I'm with Katie or Tyson, I keep them focused on me; and try to walk calmly, but quickly past any questionable dogs.

There's a chow (chow x ?) in our neighborhood. He's gorgeous and doesn't seem any more intimidating than the aussie (border collie ?) he lives with. The golden (mix ?) and the lab in our neighborhood scare the carp out of me.


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## ragamuffin (Sep 8, 2014)

Not all but some: "pit bulls" or mixes thereof (and I love the true APBT), Rottweilers, Akitas, Shar Pei, JRT's, Doberman and German Shepherds. I've only met one German Shepherd that wasn't a nutcase pos
This isn't including rarer breeds like Caucasion, Fila, Cane Corsi, and other large guardians. Most people shouldn't own them in the first place.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

PB's not afraid as I would take one in if they needed a place to stay until a home was found.. never had a bad experience around the breed owned by others. for me you either understand a breed or you don't PB's too much energy to wade through all the hype and all the confusion. So since I don't expend the time and effort into the breed, it's not a breed I seek out..


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## ragamuffin (Sep 8, 2014)

PatriciafromCO said:


> PB's not afraid as I would take one in if they needed a place to stay until a home was found.. never had a bad experience around the breed owned by others. for me you either understand a breed or you don't PB's too much energy to wade through all the hype and all the confusion. So since I don't expend the time and effort into the breed, it's not a breed I seek out..


 I own a pit bull and am still scared of pit bull types. There are too many genetic messes owned by punks that have no idea what they are getting themselves into. The only two dogs that attacked me with seriously deadly intent were pit bull types.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

d_ray said:


> Weird that some of you said Dobes. All the Dobes I have ever met have been the softest sucks.
> 
> The only breed that makes me a little hesitant are rotties. I've known quite a few and it took them awhile before they even somewhat trusted me. Even then, I always felt they were suspicious and always watching lol


Opposite for me lol. Rotties have always been super sucky, Dobes... not so much. Lived in a building with an owner of two Dobes. Saw the two, every. single. day. Did not even acknowledge me in the 3 years that I lived there LOL


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## BigLittle (May 28, 2014)

I get very, very wary around pit bulls, GSDs, JRTs, and doxies.

Tons of idiots who get unstable, poorly bred aggressive messes from those breeds and act like they wouldn't hurt a fly.

I've met more unstable GSDs that wanted to kill me and/or Clyde than ones that act like normal dogs so I'm especially wary of those. Pits don't bother me as much when I don't have a dog with me because human aggression seems extremely rare even in the badly bred ones here.

Also, a gigantic (at least 80 lbs) GSD tried to attack Clyde once. It was off leash and the owners got it within a few feet of him. Just charged at us silently and lightning fast. Clyde and thw dog's owners were the ones making all the noise. Now Clyde hates GSDs.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

It's more on an individual dog basis for me. Like... I love Great Danes. A lot. But the one down the street who's just tethered in the front yard all the time... I dunno, he looks like he has crazy in his eyes. Which, of course, is almost definitely the owner's fault. Makes me sad, but I'm really wary and will walk down a different street with Annabel when he's out. 

I guess if I were to pick a breed, dobes have a very sharp look that puts me a bit on edge. But I recently found out that when I was little, the son of a family friend had taught the dobe to basically pretend to attack me. Snarling, barking, teeth... so while I don't remember that at all, it's probably the reason I'm wary of them.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Opposite for me lol. Rotties have always been super sucky, Dobes... not so much. Lived in a building with an owner of two Dobes. Saw the two, every. single. day. Did not even acknowledge me in the 3 years that I lived there LOL


So interesting eh. All the dobes at the dog park will come running up tails wagging. Our neighbour's dobe is scared of rabbits and such a derp. 

I've only met 2 rotts and they were both extremely stand off ish and made me nervous lol We don't see many rotts in our area, but there are a ton of dobes.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

Shar pei. Except for a single exception, every last Shar Pei I've met(a good number of them) has been downright evil towards everyone but their owner.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Not so much breeds, but more large intimidating dogs. GSD, Mastiffs, Rottweilers, LGDs.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

ragamuffin said:


> I own a pit bull and am still scared of pit bull types. There are too many genetic messes owned by punks that have no idea what they are getting themselves into. The only two dogs that attacked me with seriously deadly intent were pit bull types.


Thanks for the share... it is exhausting to me for all the variables to pinpoint a base line...


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm on the Akita and Chow train, too. 

An old b/f of mine (long, long time ago) had an Akita that attacked a kid that came into the yard then attacked the cop that came to talk to my b/f about it. The dog (Crosby) was nice to me, but I never trusted him (or any other Akita) after that. Those were the days when a dog who bit wasn't put immediately on death row...although he eventually "went away"

We had some neighbors when I was younger who had two very aggressive Chows. They never did anything to me, they were just scary.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Dogs that probably "should" intimidate me: Great Pyrenees and Rotties. I've only met one Rottie in person, at the dog park, and he was a teddy bear. Totally just wanted all the pets and scratches. However I think I would be nervous if I saw one loose or just on a walk. I tend to be more trusting at the dog park I go to as people generally know what's up and anyone who isn't savvy either learns fast or gets booted out. When Pyr's give their warning/alert bark, I'm definitely cautious. But in generally the ones I've known have just wanted me to pet them or throw the ball in cooler/cold weather.

German Shepherds I'm slightly wary, mainly because the first dog fight I saw was between two males, but it's more worry for my dogs than for me.

Hmm. I still hold a strong fear of a black lab in my neighborhood back home. Mainly because he went after my childhood dog as I was walking it and he was ALWAYS loose. Ironically his other neighbors LOVED him. Definitely the unpredictability that unnerves me as I'd walked past their house many times before (with or without my dog) without incident.

And our neighbor's rottiexdobe? mix. Mainly because he charged me once at night. While I was trying to get into MY house. He calmed once he recognized me, but my trust in him was gone after that. And then a second time my fiance was unable to get out of his car to get in my house to visit me. He's got protective/territorial instincts that are out of control and that is SCARY. Also he shouldn't be loose at my house back home...


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm not scared of any particular breed when I'm out by myself, but some individual dogs make me a little nervous through their body language, especially if it looks like their owner can't control them.

I am cautious of pretty much all loose/barely-controlled medium-to-large dogs when I'm out with my dogs. Mine are both reactive and Casper in particular will try to start a fight. Even a nice friendly dog can retaliate. The bigger the dog, the more concerned I am just from a "think of how much damage this dog could do" standpoint, but the scariest dog we ever came across was a weim, so it's not really a size or a breed thing.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I know all dogs can bite and cause harm, but these are the ones I have a fear of. Doesn't mean I won't go to pet them, I'll just really be super calm around them. I'm just naming AKC breeds. 

Chow Chows
Shar Peis
Pit Bulls
Tan/White Siberian Huskies (reason for tan/white ones is b/c one almost attacked me)
Black German Shepherds (stems from an age old fear)
Cane Corso


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Not necessarily scared for me, more-so when I have Jackson with me, I get scared when I see Pits or other certain other bully breeds because while most people on this forum aren't like this, I find a lot of pit bull people around here to be the "HE WON'T HURT A FLY!!! IT'S ALL HOW THEY'RE RAISED!!" type people who aren't even aware of their own dogs strength and just allow them to say hi and greet every single dog they come across etc. I just see some questionable behavior from a lot of them and have not been comfortable with some of the dog-dog interactions I see so prefer Jackson not to meet face to face with a bully breed that I don't know.

But I'm also cautious around Labs, Dobes, Rotties, any large powerful breed when I am with Jackson as well. Labs are not typically aggressive but the over-exciteness is something Jackson doesn't like. He actually was attacked by a neighbors Lab though.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

German Shepherds. I'm not really afraid of them, but I just don't trust them.

Rottweilers - again - I'm not really afraid of them, more intimidated I guess. All of the ones I've met have been sweethearts, and Pepper is half Rotti! I just think you have to earn their trust and should be respectful of their space until you have.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Miss Bugs said:


> Shar pei. Except for a single exception, every last Shar Pei I've met(a good number of them) has been downright evil towards everyone but their owner.


Same experience. They do not do well in kennels or any kind of away from their owners. I'm extremely surprised Shar Pei's don't generally make the "dangerous" breed list. They are by far the most consistently aggressive breed I've met. They will wag their tails, and maul you at the same time.

I wouldn't ever say I'm afraid, but cautious. I'm also cautious of Chows.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I kind of lump Chows and Shar Peis together as the same. But I haven't had a lot of personal Shar Pei experience so they're not as "scary" to me. But yeah, those Asian breeds do tend to be one-person dogs.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I`ll pretty much go up to any dog,I've even made friends with loose Pits before but I do understand and watch different characteristics associated with breeds. Dogs known for protective instincts especially GSD's and Dobes,who I've meet tend to have sharper personalities I can be a little more careful with. Dogs known for DA like Pits and even somewhat like also GSD's and Rotts I`m a little more careful with them around my dog,I also don't trust my own dog in this regards. Bully breeds have been the #1 dog type that have attacked my pets before.and the type I've seen do the most damage. Dogs known for higher prey drive like Huskies,Sighthounds and Pits I trust them less with small animals like my cats. In fact because of my own past Malamute mix I trust Spitz types the least in this regard.

GSD's might be the biggest one for me personally,I have to at least assess their temperament a little to see if their one of the softies or will be like one of those that try to lash out at me for no reason. I still love the breed and kind of want one but I`m less confident around strange ones compared to even Rotties and Pits. Rotties unless reproaching on their territory have really been nothing but softies to me.

One of the meanest large dogs I've meet was a Catahoula Leopard dog and managed to make friends with it pretty quickly,so not really afraid but like I said slightly cautious,as in I move slower to gain their trust. 

Also any odd breeds known to be a bit more more aggressive (but lack experience with) I may be a little nervous around like Presa Canario,CAO,and especially Fila's.

edit: Of course the handler makes all the diffidence,it's more I'd rather see a softer tempered breed with a crap owner than a harder tempered one with them.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I literally have never met an animal that I've been afraid of. 
My Grandmother likes to tell her guests when we're over for dinner, that I should really be a veterinarian because I could walk into a lions den and come out with them licking my hands, hahaha! 

As a kid - no fear, I distinctly remember walking up to a fence where a dog was going absolutely ballistic and probably would have bitten me had my Mom not grabbed me quickly and rushed me along. 

As an adult I'm smarter about which dogs I approach  For example, there was a doberman out front one day - no leash/tags/owner in sight. I had Toby with me, he wandered over and gave Toby a quick sniff and then growled at us. I tugged Toby away and we went up the path. The doberman followed behind us. I was more concerned that he would go after Toby than me, but I certainly wouldn't describe the concern I felt as feeling fearful. I wouldn't have reached out to pet the dog though, certainly not with Toby. I was just cautious. 

Otherwise, I don't have any breeds of dog, large or small, that I'm legitimately scared of.


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## brandiw (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm not really scared of any particular breed. I'm more concerned with a dog's body language. Dogs of any breed are individuals, you just never know.

I don't like the idea of labeling certain breeds as scary or dangerous. I think it lulls people into a sense of safety when they come across a dog that isn't a "dangerous" breed. My basset mix, Moe, is unfriendly to strangers, and because he is a basset mix, people completely disregard all of his warning signs. He will be showing his teeth and growling and people will still try to approach him. If I am walking my mom's pit mix, who is a total angel, people cross the road. Clearly, Moe is a much bigger risk than my mom's dog, but people see pit bull and think "dangerous", and people see a basset hound mix and think "cute and friendly".


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

There's no particular breed I'm fearful of. Generally speaking I'm careful of big dogs running loose, and teeny dogs indoors (it's just awkward to get snapped on by someone's horrible beloved little Mr. Snufflekins the Pomapoohuahua while visiting).


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I think things that happen in childhood often cause us to not like certain breeds. The only "mean" dog I remember from when I was young was a Chow that used to chase after us. I am not scared of them, in fact have never met another one since, but find it interesting how many people mention them.

People always ask if they can pat Kris and I think her being a Dobe makes them more cautious. She really could not care less if they pat her or not just does not acknowledge that they exist.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

The type of dog doesn't make me as nervous as the handlers, esp if they have a large powerful dog they can't control ... that makes me more nervous than the dog itself.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Only the breeds that have teeth, there are even some with calloused gums that make me nervous


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I've only ever been afraid of one dog that I've interacted with. He was mostly friendly, but very poorly socialized, poorly trained, highly excitable, with a very low arousal threshold, which meant he pretty much went from napping to biting as play. He was also highly, HIGHLY dog aggressive and had a history of redirected bites with puncture on people.

So... no, specific breeds don't bother me... but specific dogs definitely make me uncomfortable.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

It is not so much a breed, but the rumble from the chest that I fear. When you hear that deep rumbling deep within from the chest, I know that dog means business. Many different breeds do that.


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## K9Chaos (Jun 27, 2014)

The only dog breed that makes me nervous are chihuahuas - I have been bit by the little jerks far too many times.

Bea


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## Hankscorpio (May 15, 2012)

I'm not so comfortable around labs... I think it's because when I was in 1st grade I was helping walk my Aunt's mellow sweet old lab and it bolted after something and dragged me down the street. Road rash isn't fun , Why didn't I let go?
Since then I've never been that comfortable around labs...
I have a hard time with gsd and rots too not sure why...

bullies don't bother me at all though

I'm also not comfortable with toy breeds but that's because I'm afraid of breaking them


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## missy_the_maltese (Nov 28, 2014)

I especially keep my distance from Rottweilers, Dobermans, and Pitts. I do love these breeds though but these (and any dogs in general) are often untrained and left loose outside and they go after Missy:/


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## CandyLeopard (Oct 14, 2013)

I can't say I'm really afraid of any breeds, but I am wary of Pitbulls, when I have my dog with me. I hate to discriminate, but it's in the back of my mind now that Logan was attacked twice by a pit. Two different ones. Any other large dog that appears prey driven would worry me too though.

When I'm without him, they don't worry me. I have no fears that they would hurt me, I only fear for Logan.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

I've never been bitten by a dog or growled at for any reason honestly (except for my uncle's schnauzer that gets moody sometimes but he's an older dog) but no I'm not scared of any breeds (though I prefer larger breed dogs over smaller breed dogs). I give a healthy space to dogs that seem scared and don't approach them so maybe it's just me being careful? I don't know but never had any problems with any dogs. 

ETA: though my last family dog *the dog my family had before we all moved out* was a lab mix of some sort and he had a problem with people that wore all black he scared me once when my brother *who was a stranger for him because my brother is in the navy and hadn't been there when we got the dog* came home and was wearing the goth pants with the chains on them and the dog got VERY scared and growled and barked like crazy. We found out later that the poor thing came from a BYB that abused the puppies and the puppies that they didn't sell were dropped in a ditch to die  still makes me sad thinking about it. anyway the puppies were saved by someone and I'm not sure what happened to Onyx *the lab mix* because we just couldn't handle his escape artist-ness and sudden aggression *pinned a neighbor against their house growling at them but didn't bite* so my parents took him to a shelter. I still don't agree with what my parents did but I was too young at the time to do anything about it


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## bonesygirl (Mar 2, 2012)

The only rotts, dobes and pit bulls I've ever met have been incredibly sweet lover types. 

When I have my dog with me, I'm honestly cautious about every dog. She was attacked by three dogs under twenty pounds when she was little, and I'm always aware of the damage a large dog could do if they really meant business. 

For myself, it's gsd's. I was attacked by one when I was a kid, and have never been able to shake that initial sense of fear when I see one. Didn't help that one of my close friends in high school had two beautiful but unbalanced crazies with a history of aggression.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm not really scared of any breed, but there are some breeds I'm more wary of depending on context. Like when I walk into someone's house and they have a guarding breed I will be more careful than if I'm meeting a lab or poodle.

If I'm walking my dogs I'm more wary of staffies and huskies than others, because of the potential danger to my dogs.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Scared of? None... No breed, no individual dog..... No critter for that matter.... There was a time when more than a few folks figured I would meet my demise over an encounter with a critter.... Came pretty close the summer I turned 16 over an incident with a Santa Gertrudis Bull.... Spent 7 days in the hospital (4 in ICU) over that one... 

Had another real close one when I bought a mustang at an auction. Then decided to pond break him because other methods did not work. Pond breaking is saddle breaking in a pond where the horse is slower and gets tired faster due to the water. Went fine for a minute but the horse rolled on me and I was pinned between horse and the bottom of the pond.... 

That being said.... I definitely show respect to serious animals. I manage testy strange dogs pretty well. Same with wild critters. 

Other than major incidents I have had numerous minor ones through my ranching, farming, hunting, catching feral hogs, trapping, etc. I have had stitches several times due to animal related injuries... Seven times I think. 3 self stitched, 2 done by a friend or family member, and two by a medical professional. I have had post exposure rabies vaccinations twice after being bitten by an animal. 


I have found over the years that my injuries from critters come when I abandon common sense, cease to pay attention, or do something plain stupid intentionally.... I have had a few "hey ya'll watch this incidents. I have a fancy scar on the back of my right thigh from climbing into a hog trap with a nasty tempered 140# class boar... On a dare..... Back when I was young, skinny and well more dumb, I used commonly climb into a trap with small hogs and just grab them rather than getting a rope over them and pulling them over... Or figuring out to get a truck or trailer to the mouth of the trap and loading them directly. Small hogs (anything under 70# or so) cannot really hurt you. Other than drawing a little blood with a bite. Well this one day we had this nasty little boar... Complete with 2 inch cutters and 1 inch whetters. One of my buddies says, I bet you won't climb in there with that one... And the trash talk started... Back and forth. So I went over the side. I caught him, threw him and tied him... In the trap... And got a nasty cut and a lot of bruises doing it. Getting stitched while laying face down on a truck tailgate is not all that much fun... 

Both my REAL close calls came from inattention or impatience.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

There was a rott in my agility class who was awesome,  but that kind of dog in the wrong hands would be very bad indeed.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

wvasko said:


> Only the breeds that have teeth, there are even some with calloused gums that make me nervous


In the area where I worked in Los Angeles there was an LAPD K-9 they called "Gummy" because she had lost about half of her teeth. But she was fast, and strong, and liked her job. In the ER we always knew when Gummy had taken someone down because of the very easily identifiable bite pattern on the person's arm (or leg).

That being said, I'm with the "Akita and Chow" group for breeds that make me nervous. I am not scared of them per se, but they're the breeds that make me nervous on first glance. If I get to know the dog, then that's completely another story.


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm not scared per say of any breed but I use due caution around all working breed dogs and toy dogs because honestly the toy dogs tend to be the most viscous due to owner mishandling. most people just over look it because they are small and it becomes a huge problem. I have been bit by more toy breeds than any other type of dog.


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

Pomeranians. Evil little creatures out to steal the souls of unsuspecting humans.

Seriously though... There isn't any particular breed I'm scared of. I do have additional reservations toward small dogs, as their owners (and breeders) seem to more often drop the ball with training & socialization, resulting in pro-active fear biters or just plain nasty temperaments that, somehow, many people think is "cute".

Its the other end of the leash (present or missing) that I don't trust.


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## Katagaria (May 21, 2014)

I wouldn't say I'm scared, but I'm nervous of nervous dogs, specifically border collie types. I have met a lot of 'unstable' collies, the kind that seem to walk really low to the ground, low head, whale eye, the works. I feel like if I accidentally interact with them wrong, they'll feel I'm a threat and lash out at me. 

There's no specific breed I feel fearful of, but the only breed I don't feel I have ever been able to trust are Siberian huskys.


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## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

It's the little dogs that scare me! In all my years on this planet, I have only ever met one small dog (mini doxie) that was well behaved. My inlaws have poms that wouldn't think twice about biting you if you so much as farted in their vicinity. 

I'm not AFRAID of labs, but i simply just don't like them. Every one that I've met has been CRAZY HYPER and not under control. We all know how fat labs can get, and a hyper one jumping all over you is just asking for trouble. I steer clear of them.

I have a GSD, and I'm surprised at how many people are afraid of this breed. People will constantly cross the road to avoid us. LOL


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## Katagaria (May 21, 2014)

Lako said:


> I have a GSD, and I'm surprised at how many people are afraid of this breed. People will constantly cross the road to avoid us. LOL


I know exactly what you mean, having met a good few of them they are actually one of the breeds I have the most trust in. There is something very honest about them.


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## Eeyore (Jul 16, 2014)

Unidentifiable mixes. Mainly because they could have all sorts of clashing breed traits making the unreliable, combined with the fact that they tend to be rescued by clueless people. This goes for both smaller, cute ones and those with large working breed ancestry, though the latter is more capable of doing actual harm. 

I still don't trust most pit type dogs as well. Same thing there, too much bad breeding and clueless people. I'm scared of ignorant dog people!

Then, I avoid contact with certain dog types because Eeyore doesn't do well with them. But that's not me being scared, it's just recognizing his limits.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

years ago I worked at a boarding kennel. Owners were gone, just me. We brushed & sprayed cologne on dogs who were leaving. A white shepherd & Newfie were kenneled together; I had no problem with them for the week. I brushed the shepherd with no problems. Started brushing the Newfie & the shepherd apparently didn't like it. I was a bit smaller then and had to literally run out the guillotine (sp?) door. 

Still, I'm not afraid of any dog.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

I can't say I'm scared of any specific breed. I am wary of large, strong dogs that give off an uncomfortable vibe though. I don't really trust most large dogs I don't personally know.


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## Erin80 (Oct 12, 2014)

Not one breed in particular. Like some others have said, it's the dogs body language. There could be a GSD, tail wagging, ears down, looking very happy and social and I'd be totally comfortable. On the other hand, it if is staring at me motionless or looks defensive, I'd be extremely careful. This goes for all breeds.


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## CrystalGSD (Jun 27, 2014)

Laurelin said:


> I'm not one to go up and pet other peoples' dogs unless I know them. Just not my thing. I never reach out at dogs, only pet ones that come up to me clearly wanting attention. That probably stems from having an antisocial dog myself. I tend to assume dogs don't want me to pet them.


Basically this. But I'm actually not wary of any dog or breed or anything... when I was 5 I was scared of my neighbor's St. Bernard but then I played with it and I was fine lol. I've never had a bad experience with other dogs or anything, so I don't have a reason to be scared of any dog breeds.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I work at a shelter and I think the breed I'm probably most nervous around is chihuahuas- I just can't read them as well as the bigger dogs and tbh they can be a bit "bite first ask later."

After those I'm probably the most cautious with deaf and blind dogs, whatever breed. Dogs with extremely poor bite inhibition don't scare me nearly as much as the ones that -sort of- have poor bite inhibition, because one I'm expecting it from and one I'm not.




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Boleyn (Aug 25, 2008)

Rescued said:


> I work at a shelter and I think the breed I'm probably most nervous around is chihuahuas- I just can't read them as well as the bigger dogs and tbh they can be a bit "bite first ask later."


I completely agree. In my grooming shop, that has been my experience. Just last week I had to turn away a new client at the door with a LH Chi, snarling and not letting me anywhere near it. The other breed that makes me a little cautious is Cocker Spaniels, I see quite a few that are unstable and bite.


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## VictoriaLeeAnne (Dec 22, 2014)

I have a Rottweiler and I love bully breeds and other large working breeds (I've had nothing but good experiences with them). I've owned German Shepherds and love them to bits as a kid-friendly breed. However I've been bit (to the point I have two scars on my hands) from black labs and was extremely weary of them until I met a sweet Lab-Rottie mix. On the whole, I have had worse experiences with tempermental small dogs... On two seperate occassions my 90lb Rottie was chased from the dog park- once by two Chihuahuas, another by a vicious little Shih Tzu...


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## VictoriaLeeAnne (Dec 22, 2014)

Lako said:


> I have a GSD, and I'm surprised at how many people are afraid of this breed. People will constantly cross the road to avoid us. LOL


People do that with my Rottie! It's kind of sad actually, and when I had my GSD we never had any door-to-door salesmen stay for very long.


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## 5 s corral (Dec 31, 2007)

No with working at a shelter I come across a lot of breeds


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I'm not scared of breeds themselves. There are individual dogs I meet especially in my classes I teach that I will be cautious about handling. There are some dogs I trust about as far as I could throw them...their body language speaks volumes if you know what to "listen" for. 

In all the years of being involved with dogs and teaching...the only one I have been truly bitten by was a horrid little dachshund with a psychopath owner in my CGC class. He lunged and flipped his lid at a GSD and the owner just stood there and let him flip out. (The GSD didn't react at all thank god.) I took the leash and pulled him back...he spun around, leaped up, and nailed me in the finger. The only thing the owner said to me was "He doesn't like German Shepherds." **roll eyes**


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> I'm not scared of breeds themselves. There are individual dogs I meet especially in my classes I teach that I will be cautious about handling. There are some dogs I trust about as far as I could throw them...their body language speaks volumes if you know what to "listen" for.
> 
> In all the years of being involved with dogs and teaching...the only one I have been truly bitten by was a horrid little dachshund with a psychopath owner in my CGC class. He lunged and flipped his lid at a GSD and the owner just stood there and let him flip out. (The GSD didn't react at all thank god.) I took the leash and pulled him back...he spun around, leaped up, and nailed me in the finger. The only thing the owner said to me was "He doesn't like German Shepherds." **roll eyes**


See ... yeah ... its the owners that scare me more than any dog LOL. When I see a dog I dont go "Oh **** here comes a [insert breed name here]" I am more likely to say "Oh **** here comes an idiot who cant control their dog."


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Tan GSDs that I don't know (I'm fine with black ones) because when I was 8 a friend went to pet another friend's GSD by leaning over a low gate and the dog bit her badly on the hand. Corgis because friends of my parents got one and when we were eating dinner it bit my Dad's hand when he touched his napkin. Bulldogs because one attacked my childhood poodle (who was 15 at the time) when we were out for a walk one day - it literally just ran over and sank it's teeth into his back. I'm also not that comfortable around big lively dogs, especially boxers, because I've met a few which have almost knocked me over (and I'm not small!).


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## VictoriaLeeAnne (Dec 22, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> See ... yeah ... its the owners that scare me more than any dog LOL. When I see a dog I dont go "Oh **** here comes a [insert breed name here]" I am more likely to say "Oh **** here comes an idiot who cant control their dog."


Exactly! That's why I disagree with any BSL, it's the owner and not the breed that should be banned. Human error is to blame in the form of either bad training, negligence, or plain stupidity


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

Caucasian Ovcharkas and GSD.They are very common where I live and very often they are aggressive.If not to humans,than to dogs with the same sex.


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

I would agree to *OwnedbyACDs*,but somehow I rarely have these problems with dogs who are walked by their owners.It's pretty normal here that dogs take them selves for a walk,no one bothers,unless the dog is aggressive,but even then nothing happens.Maybe police will come and scold the owners,if some one knows them or the dog will be taken to the local pound if no one knows whom it does belong.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Maybe "scared" is to strong a word, but I'm uneasy with GSDs. I grew up in a town where they were a really popular breed at the time, and the vast majority were very unsocialized and unstable. Although I try not to paint everyone I meet with the same brush, it's just kind of stuck with me and I keep my space when seeing them.


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

The doberman belonging to a dog trainer here in town that I met today scared the crap out of me and my dog. I think dobies - as sweet and adorable as they are with their owners - are a little scary.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

heidizag said:


> The doberman belonging to a dog trainer here in town that I met today scared the crap out of me and my dog. I think dobies - as sweet and adorable as they are with their owners - are a little scary.


Oh not me, nothing prettier than a nicely bred dobie with a nice ear crop. I am sorry but out of country dobies with their natural ears are just disgusting to me. yuck >_<


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

not really scared, but i will not touch a german shepherd without first asking the owner. i suppose i should do that with any dog lol. i have known many amazing shepherds (and even had a sweetheart mix of my own) but I've known a lot of them to be poorly bred, poorly socialized and abrasively trained via corrective devices and they have a tendency to be anxious dogs as it is. if one lunges and barks, i just give it space. thats all.
honestly, i'm very cautious of any dog on a prong or ecollar as those dogs, scientifically speaking, are more likely to be skittish, jumpy and over aroused.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

I normally encounter other dogs while walking my own dogs on leash. Any dog that rushes me and the girls sets off fear vibes. Worse if the dog is big. Mostly we encounter pit bulls. Being rushed by a pit is scary . . . but being rushed by a GSD, Rotti, Akita, LGD, molasser breed, etc. would be worse. Really, any medium or large breed with a tendency to be DA -- or mix breed that might qualify as a pig dog -- is frightening when you're walking your dogs.

Now if the dog is behind a good fence, no worries.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

agree Sandgrubger I hate that situation the most, hate the rush excitement bump that will start a fight when a dog is racing from a good distance into your dogs... no matter what the size of most breeds distraction intervention works and always feel I have an (opportunity) to step up and change the situation as my dogs know when I drop a lead to wait and let me handle it..... on the Pit side.. if DA is what they (only) made of.. distraction isn't likely to work.. so yes that would be the only dog breed that would bother me racing towards my group of dogs out on a walk or in a public place.. I would hope since they are so human friendly working that angle to them would help... but the breed is too confusing on what to do with them or what would work,... it's easy for the public to fear them and want them not in their areas period..


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Well...it does go to show that it should be the individual dog you should be concerned about. We were up in rural NH for Christmas at MrBoats' sister's house. It was nice out and we all decided to go for a walk on the country roads. We went by this one house and an older (but large) Golden Retriever came charging down the driveway. My sister in law said, he's on an invisible fence. I don't know if he didn't have his collar on or the fence was off or what...but the Golden came into the street at us. MrBoats had to kick the dog off of Ocean (thank god he's 6' 4" and 280 pounds) and then the dog came at me and Lars. The owners were standing in their front doorway with the door open watching all of this and the other one was in their car watching all of this. They didn't call their dog or come out to help or apologize. A-holes...seriously. Lars held his ground with the dog and I yelled and stomped at him while moving away with Lars. He didn't follow us. Our dogs were on leash...and thank god they didn't fight back. Because if they had defended themselves and the Golden was injured in the process....guess who's dogs would have been blamed? Mine.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

That merry xmas could have been a scary xmas, you did indeed luck out.


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## Haydenk (Dec 20, 2014)

I am uneasy around black labs. I had my pit/catahoula out at a pet store where someone was letting their 5 year old child walk their intact adult male black lab on a little nylon slip lead. The dog came running at me, knocked me down and started shaking my shirt sleeve. My 45 pound guy lunged in there and yanked the dog off of me. I was able to get up and kick the black lab away. The parents didn't do anything or even apologize. My shirt was ripped to shreds, but other than some scrapes and bruises my dog and I were okay. I have an anxiety disorder anyways so it took a long time for me to go back into a pet store, and I am still wary around labs.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

wvasko said:


> That merry xmas could have been a scary xmas, you did indeed luck out.


Absolutely. There were many properties that had the invisible fencing for their entire lot...and breeds like Labs, goldens, and mixed breeds who came charging right up to the street at us growling and barking their fool heads off. Where we live...not many people have invisible fences, they contain their dogs with actual fencing in the backyard (like we do.) 

I find it interesting that it's okay for breeds of dogs who aren't one of "those breeds" to charge and react to people walking on the street with their leashed dogs. No one came out to stop their dogs from charging the street. I can't even imagine allowing my rottweilers to charge someone walking by the house and menace them the entire length of a front yard. It was eye opening for me at least.


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## Haydenk (Dec 20, 2014)

MrsBoats, I have a pit. I can't imagine letting him run amok like people let their "docile" breeds do. I predict in the next ten years or so we are going to be seeing a lot of "family" and "designer" dog bites as people are lax with their backyard bred dog because "only pit bulls/rotties/german shepherds/dobermans/agressive breed of the week bite!"


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Most of the dogs that have aggressively or pushily rushed me and my dogs have been labs or lab mixes. There was also one boxer, a big furry Newfoundland-looking mix, a weim... we've never had trouble with any of the stereotypical "scary" breeds. This is why I'm wary of any big dog when I'm walking mine, not of any breed in particular.


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## Shep (May 16, 2013)

I'm scared of human idiots. Over the years, my dogs and I have been charged by off-leash Rotties, Goldens, Chihuahuas, Labs, GSD's, Pomeranians, Pits, mixes of all descriptions, etc., etc. None of them would have charged us if their idiot humans hadn't allowed them to. I have no problem with any breed or mix as long as someone with a brain is controlling it.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> Well...it does go to show that it should be the individual dog you should be concerned about. We were up in rural NH for Christmas at MrBoats' sister's house. It was nice out and we all decided to go for a walk on the country roads. We went by this one house and an older (but large) Golden Retriever came charging down the driveway. My sister in law said, he's on an invisible fence. I don't know if he didn't have his collar on or the fence was off or what...but the Golden came into the street at us. MrBoats had to kick the dog off of Ocean (thank god he's 6' 4" and 280 pounds) and then the dog came at me and Lars. The owners were standing in their front doorway with the door open watching all of this and the other one was in their car watching all of this. They didn't call their dog or come out to help or apologize. A-holes...seriously. Lars held his ground with the dog and I yelled and stomped at him while moving away with Lars. He didn't follow us. Our dogs were on leash...and thank god they didn't fight back. Because if they had defended themselves and the Golden was injured in the process....guess who's dogs would have been blamed? Mine.


OMG! I am glad everyone is okay! That is the exact reason I carried a cattle prod when I lived in the city, I had a small dog (bear) and Izze, who at the time was a small puppy and I wouldnt hesitate to give a dog a zap if they came too close, and I had to a few times, needless to say, the neighborhood dogs at leage learned very quickly to stay away from the girl with the "biting stick" LOL.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Oh not me, nothing prettier than a nicely bred dobie with a nice ear crop. I am sorry but out of country dobies with their natural ears are just disgusting to me. yuck >_<


seriously, there was an IPA dobe at the dog park the other day and I was just like mmm yes... LOL


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Malamutes. I don't really climb the walls around them or any thing and there are a few at daycare that I love, but I've been bitten in the back of the head by a Malamute and growing up a friend's family bred Malamutes that were incredibly scary. Just kept in a yard and unsocialized, so constant lunging and snapping if they even saw you. 

Very stoic dogs make me cautious. If I didn't know Shambles, he'd be one of them. He has a very serious and sharp looking resting face. Kind of like his owner.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Kayota said:


> seriously, there was an IPA dobe at the dog park the other day and I was just like mmm yes... LOL


I know! Forgive me, because ear cropping is considered cruel, but some breeds just ... look better, you know? And there is nothing (IMO) prettier than a dobe with a GOOD ear crop. FWIW, as long as its properly done by a vet, I really dont see the problem with it.


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I know! Forgive me, because ear cropping is considered cruel, but some breeds just ... look better, you know? And there is nothing (IMO) prettier than a dobe with a GOOD ear crop. FWIW, as long as its properly done by a vet, I really dont see the problem with it.


The jury's still out for me on the ethics of ear cropping, but I think either looks good, with a preference towards natural. I think the natural ears soften the dog a little bit. But the cropped ears do give the dog a really nice line.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm against cropping, ethically speaking. Although I don't think a well-cropped Dobe looks bad even if I prefer natural. But. . .all the cropped Dobes I've seen in real life look terrible. Cropped and flopped, or their ears have wavy edges, or whatever. And those are the owners who like to talk about how ugly an uncropped Dobe is :/. But apparently whoever does crops around here isn't too good at it. So I think cropping is pretty risky unless you know for sure the vet is really super duper good at it. Since it's done for looks and they can end up looking pretty messed-up if it's not done right, or not posted right, or whatever causes that to happen.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Willowy said:


> I'm against cropping, ethically speaking. Although I don't think a well-cropped Dobe looks bad even if I prefer natural. But. . .all the cropped Dobes I've seen in real life look terrible. Cropped and flopped, or their ears have wavy edges, or whatever. And those are the owners who like to talk about how ugly an uncropped Dobe is :/. But apparently whoever does crops around here isn't too good at it. So I think cropping is pretty risky unless you know for sure the vet is really super duper good at it. Since it's done for looks and they can end up looking pretty messed-up if it's not done right, or not posted right, or whatever causes that to happen.


i was one of those owners, when I had my dobe, her ears were natural but that was because she was a family dog, and my parents wouldnt let me crop them, even though we had a good vet who knew what they were doing.

It all comes down to the aftercare, though ... kind of like a tattoo LOL ... it only looks as good as the aftercare you give it ... same with cropped ears. Though I do prefer the shorter dobe crop.

This:









as opposed to this:


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

dammit I posted a reference post about dobie ears but its in moderation ... thats very irritating.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

German Shepherds scare the pee out of me - I lived with an unstable one for years when I was a kid, and that had a lasting (negative) effect on me. There's a GSD in our upcoming foundations class that I've had a workshop and a partial class with before and honestly I came close to backing out. The dog's reactive, not at all human friendly, huge, and owned by an older lady. I'm going, but because I trust our instructor and because I know the facility and that I can maintain distance with Molly. 

Otherwise, it's really dependent how cautious I am. If I have my dogs with me and run into a lose dog, I'm not going to try to get to it and help it, I'm going to get it the heck away from me, regardless of how friendly it seems. If I'm out alone, I'll probably do what I can to get it home or help. Body language is huge regardless, but mostly the determining factor is if my dogs and/or children are present. 

and I never have any desire to fondle/fawn over/pet anyone else's dog.

EXCEPT people with pits - and I make a point of asking if their dog is friendly, smiling and loving up their dog and gushing about it to them - even if I have my dog with me, if the dog is acting okay and the owner gives permission. Sometimes especially if. I have run into so many people out with really nice pits who are preemptively telling me that their dog is friendly and they're sorry (for the dog being bouncy/wiggly) and clearly expecting a negative reaction, I try to mitigate that a little. (If they seem or are receptive, I don't just go shove my hand and/or my dog in their face because wow rude)


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

I think the dobie ears discussion started because of my post about how I was afraid of a dobie here in Greece at the dog park -- but it was definitely ear-cropped. So "out of country" doesn't mean anything. All European dobermans I've seen have been ear cropped. Personally I'd never seen a non-cropped one before this thread and OMG ADORABLE. I would adopt the pants off one of those, if it were based on looks alone. Had NO IDEA they looked like that naturally. *dies*


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Anyway ... I prefer dobes with the slightly shorter ear crop, not the typical show crop, which is IMO too long and difficult to get to lay right.

That one male malinios in my last agility class scared me, too. Not for me, but I was scared for my dogs because he was a loose canon with his DA, and his owner was clearly NOT capable of controlling him. I know she probably thought I was a terrible person, but I always stayed far and wide away from him as I could during class.



heidizag said:


> I think the dobie ears discussion started because of my post about how I was afraid of a dobie here in Greece at the dog park -- but it was definitely ear-cropped. So "out of country" doesn't mean anything. All European dobermans I've seen have been ear cropped. Personally I'd never seen a non-cropped one before this thread and OMG ADORABLE. I would adopt the pants off one of those, if it were based on looks alone. Had NO IDEA they looked like that naturally. *dies*


Yeah they look like black and tan coonhounds LOL ... honestly I hate it.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I have no problem with cropping or docking at all, but if you can't tell the difference between a coonhound and a dobe with uncropped ears, you've never seen a coonhound or a dobe with uncropped ears and/or you're repeating rhetoric. Or *something*.

They look about as much alike as a black and white pit looks like a boston terrier. Probably less. As much as a black and white pit looks like, I don't know, a short haired border collie?



















REALLY?! They look NOTHING ALIKE except by virtue of their coloration.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well not necessarily, nowadays they could look like a poorly bred **** hound, or maybe even a DobCoo designer breed


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

wvasko said:


> Well not necessarily, nowadays they could look like a poorly bred **** hound, or maybe even a DobCoo designer breed


Maybe in some ways, but you ain't getting coonhound ears on an actual doberman no matter how badly it's bred. Those things take some serious breeding to keep


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Maybe in some ways, but you ain't getting coonhound ears on an actual doberman no matter how badly it's bred. Those things take some serious breeding to keep


I was exaggerating for emphasis that I thought natural ears on dobes were ugly ... but yes, natty dobes DO kind of remind me of a black and tan **** hound.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I like a natural Dobe though I have preference towards the reds (because I prefer red dogs LOL). I actually sort of like natural ears and docked tails, something about that tail bugs me, it is too delicate or something. 


Hobgoblin is Dobe and GSD, his ears stand but they weren't cropped and he has a natural tail. I kind of wish he had a nubby tail, he doesn't seem to know he has a tail most of the time (it just hangs there) then he notices it and chases it like it is attacking him. I've never noticed people being afraid of Hobs, they rush to us to pet him and say how beautiful he is. When I had Duke (American Bulldog) people used to cross the street to get away from him or comment on how dangerous he was, scream, ect. 

I am not afraid of any breed. There are dogs I'm not as fond of or don't really want to own because I don't particularly enjoy them but I am not afraid of them and can enjoy them as other people's pets.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

CptJack said:


> I have no problem with cropping or docking at all.


But I've heard it hurts the dog. Whether it looks better or not, how can you have no problem with something that hurts the dog?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> But I've heard it hurts the dog. Whether it looks better or not, how can you have no problem with something that hurts the dog?


docking doesnt hurt, its done at a few days old .... they dont even remember it. If the ears are wrapped right, they dont hurt them at all. I had a friend who used ... ahem ... tampons LOL


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm not sure how a 4-5 inch slice off your ears could be in any way not painful. And I don't believe that neonates don't feel pain, and I don't think whether they "remember it" is relevant. Just little stories we tell to make ourselves feel better. . .


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Willowy said:


> I'm not sure how a 4-5 inch slice off your ears could be in any way not painful. And I don't believe that neonates don't feel pain, and I don't think whether they "remember it" is relevant. Just little stories we tell to make ourselves feel better. . .


I have two docked dogs ... I can tell you they dont remember their tails being gone and have no issues with me touching them or messing with them in anyway. Ear cropping is done under sedation and if its done right by a vet (NOT by someone at home!!!) than it is not without pain but its not this horrible painful ordeal, either.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I have two docked dogs ... I can tell you they dont remember their tails being gone and have no issues with me touching them or messing with them in anyway. Ear cropping is done under sedation and if its done right by a vet (NOT by someone at home!!!) than it is not without pain but its not this horrible painful ordeal, either.


Ear docking _is_ pretty painful, though. The initial procedure should be painless because the dog is out, but the recovery can be uncomfortable at best. Throw in the fact that it's unnecessary elective surgery, with all the risks surgery implies, and I think it's fairly unethical to do for purely cosmetic reasons. And that's not even going into how often the ears get royally effed up or the aftercare goes poorly. IMO it is not in the same category as routine tail docking.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

parus said:


> Ear docking _is_ pretty painful, though. The initial procedure should be painless because the dog is out, but the recovery can be uncomfortable at best. Throw in the fact that it's unnecessary elective surgery, with all the risks surgery implies, and I think it's fairly unethical to do for purely cosmetic reasons. And that's not even going into how often the ears get royally effed up or the aftercare goes poorly. IMO it is not in the same category as routine tail docking.


True, it is not, but Willowy was insinuating that it was ... or at least thats how I took it. How painful or painless the aftercare for a crop is depends on how skilled the person giving the aftercare is, IMO.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> True, it is not, but Willowy was insinuating that it was ... or at least thats how I took it. How painful or painless the aftercare for a crop is depends on how skilled the person giving the aftercare is, IMO.


Agree with you fully and I don't care about insinuations. I suppose it's because I have owned some Dobes and all that entails.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I used to be vehemently against ear cropping but I realized I really don't give a damn if the dog is well cared for by the owner and has a good home. I'd rather have a dog go to a good home that will crop than go to a crappy home that leaves it natural.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

How can I not care?

By not caring.

I care about things that damage dogs, that keep them out of homes, and the create life long issues. I do not care about pain caused once in a dog's life that does not do any of those things.

I would not crop or dock my own dog given a choice (though Jack is docked) but I do not have some intense issue with other people choosing to do so based on aesthetic preference, provided it is done by a professional and cared for properly afterward. I'm not going ot claim it doesn't hurt - I think that's asinine. I just don't think it's the end of the world or worth tarring and feathering otherwise good owners for.

I did rescue for a long time. On the scale of things to get outraged over, cropping doesn't even RATE for me. To whit, I care more about routine pediatric spay/neuter than I do cropping or docking. (Ongoing issues, maybe) and even then I'm mostly a fan of 'do your own research, make an informed decision).

And let us be real: Look at breed selection posts here and tell me how many people have a physical appearance that knocks a dog in or out of being desirable for them. Would YOU deliberately get a dog that looks ugly to you? 

Is it shallow? Yes, I think is is. 

Do i care? Still no.


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## The Pooper (Nov 16, 2011)

Yes, Airedale Terriers. The only dog that ever bit me. It was a neighbor's dog and for no reason, it bit my kneecap! I ran all the way home, scream-crying from the pain. I instinctively freeze when I see one. I'm in my 40s now. Ah, childhood, some things never go away.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

CptJack said:


> Is it shallow? Yes, I think is is.
> 
> Do i care? Still no.


I don't _care_ care, but I do think inflicting a fairly significant involuntary pain for purely aesthetic purposes crosses a line from "shallow" into something more unpleasant. Compared to some of the awful forms of abuse and neglect people do to dogs it's fairly negligible, but I'd like to see it thoroughly discouraged by kennel clubs and vets.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

parus said:


> I don't _care_ care, but I do think inflicting a fairly significant involuntary pain for purely aesthetic purposes crosses a line from "shallow" into something more unpleasant. Compared to some of the awful forms of abuse and neglect people do to dogs it's fairly negligible, but I'd like to see it thoroughly discouraged by kennel clubs and vets.


Honestly, this I will agree with.

I just don't want to see the people who choose it -or who *buy a puppy of a breed commonly cropped or docked*- condemned. Right now you'd have to bust your butt in some breeds to find them natural at all, and because of age it's commonly done a breeder to agree to leave them that way is rare. I'd prefer our images of some breeds change all around so natural dobes and yorkies with tails isn't 'strange' to us, and that starts with kennel clubs, vets, and so on. Obviously that sort of thing is possible (see everywhere outside the US) but I don't think screaming down owners who have dogs that are cropped/docked or people who prefer that look is the answer and it kind of bugs me when that goes there.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

CptJack said:


> Honestly, this I will agree with.
> 
> I just don't want to see the people who choose it -or who *buy a puppy of a breed commonly cropped or docked*- condemned. *Right now you'd have to bust your butt in some breeds to find them natural at all,* and because of age it's commonly done a breeder to agree to leave them that way is rare. I'd prefer our images of some breeds change all around so natural dobes and yorkies with tails isn't 'strange' to us, and that starts with kennel clubs, vets, and so on. Obviously that sort of thing is possible (see everywhere outside the US) but I don't think screaming down owners who have dogs that are cropped/docked or people who prefer that look is the answer and it kind of bugs me when that goes there.


Agreed ^^^

I don't like docking and cropping, and wish natural looking dogs were more accepted, but I won't push my beliefs on or condemn others. Certainly I would have liked to have found a poodle breeder who met all my requirements _and_ didn't dock. Unfortunately, the ones I found who left natural tails were undesirable in other ways. It was more important to me to find someone who did requisite health testing, proved breeding dogs in some way, and looked at the bigger picture of improving the breed than it was to have an unmolested tail.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, someone on my route bought a Dobe pup a few years ago, and he told the breeder he didn't care about cropped ears but the breeder did it anyway, and he immediately pulled off all the bandages/posts/etc. as soon as he got the pup home. That dog's ears drove me crazy because they healed all wadded up like frostbite or cauliflower ear or something. They were stiff too. He moved away before the dog was full-grown so I don't know how his ears finally turned out but I'm pretty sure Mr. "no dog of mine will go uncropped!" Breeder wouldn't have been too happy with those ears. Gotta listen to what the owner wants, hmm?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Yeah, someone on my route bought a Dobe pup a few years ago, and he told the breeder he didn't care about cropped ears but the breeder did it anyway, and he immediately pulled off all the bandages/posts/etc. as soon as he got the pup home. That dog's ears drove me crazy because they healed all wadded up like frostbite or cauliflower ear or something. They were stiff too. He moved away before the dog was full-grown so I don't know how his ears finally turned out but I'm pretty sure Mr. "no dog of mine will go uncropped!" Breeder wouldn't have been too happy with those ears. Gotta listen to what the owner wants, hmm?


Shoot I would be ecstatic to have a breeder spend that amount of money to crop the puppies before they leave! Of course I would have them show me EXACTLY how to care for them so they heal right. That isnt the breeder's fault, its the owners fault. The other probably knew that one of that breeder's practices was to crop all puppies, I am sure they put it in their contract or had it somewhere on their site, it was that guys fault for not listening or not finding a breeder who would make an acception.

That being said, most reputable dobie breeders I know of (not mind you I dont have THAT much experience with the breed as some, so if this is wrong, forgive me) crop puppies ears before they sell them, because the earlier the crop is done the faster and the better they heal. You would be surprised how quick a puppy heals. they are like ... super healers LOL.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Yeah, someone on my route bought a Dobe pup a few years ago, and he told the breeder he didn't care about cropped ears but the breeder did it anyway, and he immediately pulled off all the bandages/posts/etc. as soon as he got the pup home. That dog's ears drove me crazy because they healed all wadded up like frostbite or cauliflower ear or something. They were stiff too. He moved away before the dog was full-grown so I don't know how his ears finally turned out but I'm pretty sure Mr. "no dog of mine will go uncropped!" Breeder wouldn't have been too happy with those ears. Gotta listen to what the owner wants, hmm?


The problem is, uncropped dogs of breeds like dobes don't sell - and if you don't crop and people back out your stuck with the dog. 

I'm not saying it's right but I think it almost has to be discouraged on a breed club level, made undesirable in the ring, and for vets to be on-board. Or just make it illegal, though Americans would hate that and I understand why (because so do I). Like anything short of that it just becomes cyclic. It's a trickle down thing. Can't blame breeders who show from doing what gets their dogs titled -when people want those titles and they're a standard of breed worthiness. Can't blame the public for thinking what they see on tv and everywhere is 'right' and how the dog is supposed to look (well you can and I do, but I understand it) and finding natural strange looking. 

This isn't something that will cahnge bottom up. It has to start all the way at the top for any change to happen. See also: Europe.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> The problem is, uncropped dogs of breeds like dobes don't sell - and if you don't crop and people back out your stuck with the dog.
> 
> I'm not saying it's right but I think it almost has to be discouraged on a breed club level, made undesirable in the ring, and for vets to be on-board. Or just make it illegal, though Americans would hate that and I understand why (because so do I). Like anything short of that it just becomes cyclic. It's a trickle down thing. Can't blame breeders who show from doing what gets their dogs titled -when people want those titles and they're a standard of breed worthiness. Can't blame the public for thinking what they see on tv and everywhere is 'right' and how the dog is supposed to look (well you can and I do, but I understand it) and finding natural strange looking.
> 
> This isn't something that will cahnge bottom up. It has to start all the way at the top for any change to happen. See also: Europe.


Yep I know american breeders who wont buy european bred dobe adults because of their natural state ... although it isnt illegal ... they just wont title here because its not "preferred".

One thing I wish is they would change the sheltie and collie standards to allow for pricked ears, because that business of taping and gluing the ears to fold 1/4 down is pretty silly IMO


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

> Of course I would have them show me EXACTLY how to care for them so they heal right. That isnt the breeder's fault, its the owners fault. The other probably knew that one of that breeder's practices was to crop all puppies, I am sure they put it in their contract or had it somewhere on their site, it was that guys fault for not listening or not finding a breeder who would make an acception.


In my experience, most people who find someone who produces the breed they want aren't going to go looking for another breeder if they don't have to. Especially if there's only one breeder in the area. Especially for someone like this guy who just plain _didn't care_ what his dog's ears looked like. He wasn't looking specifically for a natural-eared Dobe, he just wanted a Dobe. I'm sure the breeder showed him how to post the ears and care for them, and I'm sure he nodded and mm-hmmed at all the right times. I suppose it would have been up to the breeder to refuse to sell to someone who wasn't sufficiently committed to fussing with his dog's ears, but then he would have lost a sale. 


Weird trivia----for decades (up until _the 1980s!!!!)_, doctors thought that human babies couldn't feel pain under a certain age, so if they had to do surgery on a baby they just gave them a paralyzing agent/muscle relaxant, no pain relief at all. Then when such technology came available, they did brain wave studies on babies and found that they actually feel pain more intensely than adults. So all those babies were subjected to horrible pain. Even if they don't have a conscious memory of it, yikes. I wonder if anyone has done brain wave studies on puppies? I wonder if the results would make a difference? :/


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

I live in Europe,Latvia.Cropping is illegal here for all breeds but 7 hunting breeds who really need to be with cropped tales,or they will hurt them badly during hunt.But the cropping continuous.Even in shows I still see mostly cropped dogs.They find a way to go around the law.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

I've stated it many many times before here on df so I guess it's already known I much prefer natural Dobermanns and don't think they look houndy at all.  

Back on topic; I'm not afraid of any dog breed, but I am wary of Malamutes (two very strong, big, aggressive mals live in my neighborhood) and Bull terriers. I can't really explain the last one. It's not like I've ever had a bad experience with them. They just look so odd, I'm weirded out when I see one. And they're pretty big too. I always thought they were like... cocker spaniel sized. But they're SO much bigger. 

And it may sound odd on a mostly American dog forum, but I'm wary of cropped dogs. They tend to belong to a certain type of people here... the type that likes a dog to not only look 'tough', but to behave 'tough' as well. 

Not to mention cropping/docking is illegal here, so I always wonder why and how they got the dog cropped and docked. Why, because it's banned in dog shows and sports, so most people don't bother. This means those who do own a cropped dog aren't involved in showing or performance, so I conclude the aesthetics of it must *really* appeal to those people. And how, because vets can't legally perform the procedure. I rarely see cropped dogs, but I do know that unfortunately there are some shady vets who will perform the surgery, both here and in Belgium. 

The only legal way to own a cropped dog is to import them from Eastern Europe or overseas. Why go through so much trouble, I wonder. Is the cropped look so important. I guess it is to some. 

I'm not wary of shepherds, strangely enough. Most GSDs, white Swiss shepherds, Dutch shepherds and Malinois I meet are really well trained. I'm only a little cautious of Altdeutschers, because there are three in my own street: one is downright nasty, one is overly exuberant and another tends to pick a fight.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Willowy said:


> In my experience, most people who find someone who produces the breed they want aren't going to go looking for another breeder if they don't have to. Especially if there's only one breeder in the area. Especially for someone like this guy who just plain _didn't care_ what his dog's ears looked like. He wasn't looking specifically for a natural-eared Dobe, he just wanted a Dobe. I'm sure the breeder showed him how to post the ears and care for them, and I'm sure he nodded and mm-hmmed at all the right times. I suppose it would have been up to the breeder to refuse to sell to someone who wasn't sufficiently committed to fussing with his dog's ears, but then he would have lost a sale.


A breeder who cares whether they lose a sale isn't a good breeder anyway.


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## Luxorien (Jun 11, 2014)

Avie said:


> and Bull terriers. I can't really explain the last one. It's not like I've ever had a bad experience with them. They just look so odd, I'm weirded out when I see one. .


This. Very much this.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

It's fine if vets and the like discourage cropping and docking, but I don't like to see it flat-out banned because people will find another way to get it done, and that way is likely to be more painful for the dog (and look worse, too). It would be better for breed clubs to push the natural look and have it come more into favor than for anyone to ban it.

I'm not opposed to cropping or docking when done properly and by a professional, though.

A friend of mine got a minpin from a good breeder a few years back, and she requested the ears and tail be left alone. The breeder explained that she had to dock because she didn't know which (if any) of the females would be her keeper pup and which would go to my friend when the pups were just newborns, but she left the ears natural once she decided which pup would become my friend's.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

CptJack said:


> The problem is, uncropped dogs of breeds like dobes don't sell - and if you don't crop and people back out your stuck with the dog.
> 
> I'm not saying it's right but I think it almost has to be discouraged on a breed club level, made undesirable in the ring, and for vets to be on-board. Or just make it illegal, though Americans would hate that and I understand why (because so do I). Like anything short of that it just becomes cyclic. It's a trickle down thing. Can't blame breeders who show from doing what gets their dogs titled -when people want those titles and they're a standard of breed worthiness. Can't blame the public for thinking what they see on tv and everywhere is 'right' and how the dog is supposed to look (well you can and I do, but I understand it) and finding natural strange looking.
> 
> This isn't something that will cahnge bottom up. It has to start all the way at the top for any change to happen. See also: Europe.


It _is_ possible to change it, though - it's become ordinary in the US to see schnauzers of all three sizes with natural ears. I'd assume a lot of this was due to the milling of mini schnauzers (too much work/money for a mill) except that standards and giants aren't generally milled, and you see a lot of them with natural ears now, too. A lot of breeders will routinely ask owners whether they want the ears left natural, and honor the wishes. Tail docking, because it's done so soon after birth, is still the default, but it's not as gross, and docked tails actually do have some purpose beyond aesthetics, so I don't think changing that is as pressing.

I suspect the reason dobes are not going a similar direction is that a lot people who get a dobe are going for, like, style and image and the big intimidating dog like in the movies. I think it's similar reasons you see more natural mini schnauzers than natural giant schnauzers - there's an appeal in having a scaaaaary dog and the cropped ears make the dog look more intimidating. 

I don't judge people who I see with cropped ear dogs - my big guy has (badly) cropped ears, and that was done years before I got him. But I have to admit I do draw some negative conclusions about people who I know actually getting their pup cropped for aesthetics, or requesting cropped pups.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Anyway, I actually understand the aesthetic argument - I prefer the alert, sharp look of a prick-eared dog over a floppy-eared dog, myself. But not enough to _cut off the ears_ of a floppy-eared dog breed if I choose to get a dog from a floppy-eared breed, lol. 

Obviously aesthetics are a deciding factor in the great majority of people's choice in dogs, but my view is basically, if getting cosmetic surgery is required to get the look you really, really want and can't do without, it's probably time to just go for a different breed.

I'm just picturing someone doing this in a relationship. "Hmm, I'll be friends with you, but first you need to get lipo." "Yes, let's marry...and as soon as we do, I'll pay for you get a nosejob, ugh." Heh, I suppose some of that cosmetic pressure does actually happen in some relationships. At least humans have the option to decline to play that game.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I confess I'm somewhat wary of bully breeds at the dog park until I get to know them. We get a TON of them, sometimes with not exactly dog savvy owners, often a case of 'bringing Cujo for the first time to get him used to other dogs.' Some of the bully breeds play really rough or don't have good social skills or aren't managed well by their owners. The majority of the issues I observe and personally deal with are with bully types. Just today, there was a random male pit that targeted Gyp for intense humping. No idea WHY, since she was ignoring him when it started and just tagging after me. After the second instance, I took her to the other section of the park.

No wariness at the park once I get a feel for their personalities. I love some of the regulars' pits and pit mixes. And I don't have any problems with bully breeds outside of the dog park setting.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

As for the cropping discussion, I always wonder why breeders can't develop the doberman breed over generations to have tall, pricked ears. I mean, humans took a wolf and made a chihuahua. Prick ears should be a relatively easy trait to introduce and select for. I guess it's just easier to cut the ears off?

(To be clear, I am not against cropping or docking and don't judge owners of dogs who are cropped and docked.)


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

GoGoGypsy said:


> As for the cropping discussion, I always wonder why breeders can't develop the doberman breed over generations to have tall, pricked ears. I mean, humans took a wolf and made a chihuahua. Prick ears should be a relatively easy trait to introduce and select for. I guess it's just easier to cut the ears off?
> 
> (To be clear, I am not against cropping or docking and don't judge owners of dogs who are cropped and docked.)


Hrm. I don't really like that though. I don't think cropped ears actually helps the dog at all, just makes it look scarier. Correct me if I'm wrong though. So that might mean that some breeders would pick "perkier ears" as a reason to breed as opposed to "this dog is actually superior."


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## BigLittle (May 28, 2014)

chimunga said:


> Hrm. I don't really like that though. I don't think cropped ears actually helps the dog at all, just makes it look scarier. Correct me if I'm wrong though. So that might mean that some breeders would pick "perkier ears" as a reason to breed as opposed to "this dog is actually superior."


It's largely tradition for dogs' ears to be cropped now, but they do have a real function.

I think the reason they are especially popular in bull breeds and some mastiff breeds is so if the dog gets in a fight with an animal, the ear cannot be damaged or used as leverage to subdue it. I've seen photos of mastiffs from rural Central Asia and they all have nubby little ears where almost the whole flap was removed. These dogs are bred and used to fight wolves to protect flocks, not for style.

A dobermann may be called upon to defend its master from a dog or a human, so the ears are cut. They also do serve the purpose of intimidation in guard dogs, to create a visual barrier against would-be human intruders, as many do find natural dobermanns cuter looking than cropped and docked ones.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

GoGoGypsy said:


> I confess I'm somewhat wary of bully breeds at the dog park until I get to know them. We get a TON of them, sometimes with not exactly dog savvy owners, often a case of 'bringing Cujo for the first time to get him used to other dogs.' Some of the bully breeds play really rough or don't have good social skills or aren't managed well by their owners. The majority of the issues I observe and personally deal with are with bully types. Just today, there was a random male pit that targeted Gyp for intense humping. No idea WHY, since she was ignoring him when it started and just tagging after me. After the second instance, I took her to the other section of the park.
> 
> No wariness at the park once I get a feel for their personalities. I love some of the regulars' pits and pit mixes. And I don't have any problems with bully breeds outside of the dog park setting.


Bennie isn't given many opportunities to meet dogs, but from the brief interactions I've seen? Not outright aggressive, but certainly ZERO social skills whatsoever. And coupled with a bull breeds tendency to finish a fight, I can see a dog who snaps at an annoying bully with poor social skills getting bit back. Doesn't seem like a good mix to me, even for dog friendly bull breeds IMO. 

I am not wary of any dogs walking down the street, but when trying to walk Bennie past another dog I would be less likely to think another bull breed would calmly walk past her. From my standpoint minus a dog, maybe I just would give guardian type breeds more space.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yep I know american breeders who wont buy european bred dobe adults because of their natural state ... although it isnt illegal ... they just wont title here because its not "preferred".
> 
> One thing I wish is they would change the sheltie and collie standards to allow for pricked ears, because that business of taping and gluing the ears to fold 1/4 down is pretty silly IMO


How is ear taping more silly than cropping? It's way less invasive.

Also, ear taping happens in a lot of different breeds, not just shelties/collies/BCs. They just tape them to go other directions instead of tipped. I've seen pugs, GSDs, aussies, etc you name it basically with taped ears.

I wouldn't do it. I think it's a pointless waste of time and often the ears look weirdly unnatural when finished. BC ears that are taped bug me most (either erect or tipped) since their ears are SUPPOSED to be able to be set any way. But eh? Not a big deal at all. Not worth getting too annoyed over it.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Avie said:


> Not to mention cropping/docking is illegal here, so I always wonder why and how they got the dog cropped and docked. Why, because it's banned in dog shows and sports, so most people don't bother. This means those who do own a cropped dog aren't involved in showing or performance, so I conclude the aesthetics of it must *really* appeal to those people. And how, because vets can't legally perform the procedure. I rarely see cropped dogs, but I do know that unfortunately there are some shady vets who will perform the surgery, both here and in Belgium. .


Just curious but say I moved to the Netherlands and had Hank (who is docked), would I be unable to do agility with him there? Even though I didn't have anything to do with his being docked? What happens for international dog shows or sport events?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

When I look at cropped ears, no matter how good of a job, all I see is how unnatural and fake they are anymore.


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## Shep (May 16, 2013)

I _hate_ it when people tape their BC's ears. I know it's none of my business, but I just _hate_ it. Another case of people ignoring the breed standard in favor of what they think will win, and churning out cookie-cutter dogs who all look alike -- it just drives me nuts. But then, I hate even seeing BC's in the breed ring at all, so I can't exactly claim any objectivity here, LOL.

I've never understood the thing about cropped ears making a dog look intimidating. What's more intimidating than a Rottweiler? And no one crops their ears. And Min Pins and Brussels Griffons aren't exactly supposed to be ferocious guard dogs, so why crop them? I'm not really anti-crop, I just see no reason for it.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I see BC ears go both ways. Taped to tip like the breed ring says but there's a LOT of sports people that tape them for prick ears, which I totally don't get either. And generally the ones that get taped to prick ears look weird to me. Not as... bendy or something as normal BC prick ears.

It does crack me up how often I get asked if papillon ears are cropped or taped. I've been asked probably half a dozen times at agility events.

I have had a couple people react with 'Oh that's too bad' or something of the sort when they ask if Hank is docked. I DIDN'T DOCK HIM, PEOPLE. He was like that when I adopted him.


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## moluno (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm not "scared" of but I don't like handling GSD's, ACD's, shiba inus, or mini schnauzers. Those are just the ones off the top of my head. 
This is coming from a vet clinic setting though, they might be lovely in all other aspects, but more often than not they are terrible for procedures at the vet. 

Kind of surprised to see Dobes mentioned so often, they're one of the breeds I've never mistrusted, even before I owned one. 


As far as the cropping/docking thing, I'm indifferent. Wouldn't want to see it banned, doesn't bother me that I own a cropped/docked doberman and a docked boxer. If that's the breed standard and that's the way the dog comes to me, fine. But I don't like witnessing the procedure and wouldn't have my dogs ears cropped if they didn't come that way, for example.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> Just curious but say I moved to the Netherlands and had Hank (who is docked), would I be unable to do agility with him there? Even though I didn't have anything to do with his being docked? What happens for international dog shows or sport events?


Because you moved here from the US and you can prove Hank did as well and was docked there, you can enter sports events. However, if Hank was cropped, he would be unable to. There's a zero tolerance policy for cropped dogs.


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

CptJack said:


> Honestly, this I will agree with.
> 
> I just don't want to see the people who choose it -or who *buy a puppy of a breed commonly cropped or docked*- condemned. Right now you'd have to bust your butt in some breeds to find them natural at all, and because of age it's commonly done a breeder to agree to leave them that way is rare. I'd prefer our images of some breeds change all around so natural dobes and yorkies with tails isn't 'strange' to us, and that starts with kennel clubs, vets, and so on. Obviously that sort of thing is possible (see everywhere outside the US) but I don't think screaming down owners who have dogs that are cropped/docked or people who prefer that look is the answer and it kind of bugs me when that goes there.





CptJack said:


> It's a trickle down thing. Can't blame breeders who show from doing what gets their dogs titled -when people want those titles and they're a standard of breed worthiness. Can't blame the public for thinking what they see on tv and everywhere is 'right' and how the dog is supposed to look (well you can and I do, but I understand it) and finding natural strange looking.



Yep. I would have loved for Watson to be un-docked. Fluffy corgis have _beautiful _tails. But we had no idea what puppy I was getting, because the breeder wanted to do temperament tests on them before she decided. And she had no idea there were fluffs in the litter when they were born, so all of them were possible show dogs at birth.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Avie said:


> Because you moved here from the US and you can prove Hank did as well and was docked there, you can enter sports events. However, if Hank was cropped, he would be unable to. There's a zero tolerance policy for cropped dogs.


Wow that is strange!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I see BC ears go both ways. Taped to tip like the breed ring says but there's a LOT of sports people that tape them for prick ears, which I totally don't get either. And generally the ones that get taped to prick ears look weird to me. Not as... bendy or something as normal BC prick ears.
> 
> It does crack me up how often I get asked if papillon ears are cropped or taped. I've been asked probably half a dozen times at agility events.
> 
> I have had a couple people react with 'Oh that's too bad' or something of the sort when they ask if Hank is docked. I DIDN'T DOCK HIM, PEOPLE. He was like that when I adopted him.


I am just going to leave Lincoln's ears alone and let them do what they're going to do LOL


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

chimunga said:


> Yep. I would have loved for Watson to be un-docked. Fluffy corgis have _beautiful _tails. But we had no idea what puppy I was getting, because the breeder wanted to do temperament tests on them before she decided. And she had no idea there were fluffs in the litter when they were born, so all of them were possible show dogs at birth.


But ... but tailess fluffy wiggle butt is the cutest!!!


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

BigLittle said:


> It's largely tradition for dogs' ears to be cropped now, but they do have a real function.
> 
> I think the reason they are especially popular in bull breeds and some mastiff breeds is so if the dog gets in a fight with an animal, the ear cannot be damaged or used as leverage to subdue it. I've seen photos of mastiffs from rural Central Asia and they all have nubby little ears where almost the whole flap was removed. These dogs are bred and used to fight wolves to protect flocks, not for style.
> 
> A dobermann may be called upon to defend its master from a dog or a human, so the ears are cut. They also do serve the purpose of intimidation in guard dogs, to create a visual barrier against would-be human intruders, as many do find natural dobermanns cuter looking than cropped and docked ones.


I would buy that... except there are lots of other breeds that serve the same purpose (guardian breeds, protection breeds) whose ears aren't cut and are able to do their job just fine.


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## BigLittle (May 28, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> I would buy that... except there are lots of other breeds that serve the same purpose (guardian breeds, protection breeds) whose ears aren't cut and are able to do their job just fine.


Can they do their traditional jobs uncropped? Absolutely.
Can they do their traditional jobs just that much better when cropped? I think so.
Is it needed in today's modern lifestyle? Rarely.

Like I said, it's tradition for the most part now. IMO docking and cropping housepets is unessecary, but there is a viable use for it in some working dog populations.


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## CrystalGSD (Jun 27, 2014)

I'm opposed to docking and cropping unless it serves a purpose (hunting dog or something) but if someone crops or docks their dog, I won't jump down their throat about it. It's just my opinion.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

The "not grabbing ears" thing always seems ridiculous to me because it seems WAY easier to grab a long dobe crop than floppy ears in the middle of a scuffle.

I think it was probably just meant to make them look more serious.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> The "not grabbing ears" thing always seems ridiculous to me because it seems WAY easier to grab a long dobe crop than floppy ears in the middle of a scuffle.
> 
> I think it was probably just meant to make them look more serious.


Yes it was. Any other reason is just for political correctness.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm not going to lecture someone with a docked/cropped breed, but I would prefer both be accepted in showing or at least have the natural look come into favour enough that people who wanted the breed at least had an OPTION of getting a natural puppy without going to a BYB. Given the choice I wouldn't have it done, but depending on the breed I want I might not be given the choice. We had a natural dobie at the shelter a while back and people literally wouldn't believe me that she was a dobie because they'd never seen one with natural ears and a tail.

To me it's always been a bit silly that to look how they're 'supposed' to look they have to have cosmetic surgery. Just always seemed a bit contradicting.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

I have nothing against cropping/docking, which now that I think about it is somewhat surprising to me on account of how much I usually lean towards natural alternatives (generally speaking, in all aspects of life - not just dog related). 

I think some breeds are more aesthetically appealing when docked/cropped and honestly just don't have any qualms about it. If I ever owned a purebred Dobe or Great Dane, I would have their ears cropped. Granted, I'd make sure it was done by the most experienced vet available to me and of course ensure that they were taken care of properly both during and after the procedure. 

Back to the original topic, I'm not and have never been afraid of any particular breed. However, I don't want my dogs around Pits or other bully mixes, Akitas, Boxers, Rotts, GSDs, and Labs. The majority of the issues I've run into with my dogs were from Pits and Labs. They're just so overbred that the temperaments on a lot of them are very unpredictable.


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## CrystalGSD (Jun 27, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> I'm not going to lecture someone with a docked/cropped breed, but I would prefer both be accepted in showing or at least have the natural look come into favour enough that people who wanted the breed at least had an OPTION of getting a natural puppy without going to a BYB. Given the choice I wouldn't have it done, but depending on the breed I want I might not be given the choice. We had a natural dobie at the shelter a while back and people literally wouldn't believe me that she was a dobie because they'd never seen one with natural ears and a tail.
> 
> To me it's always been a bit silly that to look how they're 'supposed' to look they have to have cosmetic surgery. Just always seemed a bit contradicting.


Totally agree with this.


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## Ollie's Human (Jan 5, 2015)

I am rather intimidated by larger dogs, mainly breeds like a Doberman or bull Arabs. Ones that tend to be used for hunting and things which make me feel they can be quite nasty. But also depends on each individual dog. Like my neighbours dog, he is a maremma, apparently as nice as anything and quite gentle, yet bails me up if I am working in my garden.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

My Aussie's nubby butt wiggle makes me laugh all the time. I can't image what she'd be like with a tail. An Aussie with a tail is a Border Collie.  While I definitely prefer the nub because the butt wiggle is just to die for, I would still buy a tailed Aussie (as long as it was a full tail and not one of those half tail things they can be born with). I'm a little less alright with cropping, but I'm not going to condemn either. I would definitely like to see it decline.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

moluno said:


> I'm not "scared" of but I don't like handling GSD's, ACD's, shiba inus, or mini schnauzers. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.
> This is coming from a vet clinic setting though, they might be lovely in all other aspects, but more often than not they are terrible for procedures at the vet.
> 
> Kind of surprised to see Dobes mentioned so often, they're one of the breeds I've never mistrusted, even before I owned one.
> ...


I feel you on ACDs, my late female would let me do anything to her, but when she had to go to the vet for a snake bite, she bit two techs so badly they needed stitches ... and that was just trying to get the muzzle on. If they had bothered to ask me I would have done it for them.


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## BigLittle (May 28, 2014)

At one time, dobermanns did have a crop that made their ears both small and menacing.
Now, their ears have to be taped a lot to get the look for the show ring.

To be honest, I find the old crop more menacing...


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## TMFranklin (Apr 29, 2013)

Dachsunds absolutely scare me. I think that is the one breed that makes me fear being near them.


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

On the utility of natural vs. cropped ears in fights:

Argos has the hanging hound ears and they are coated in scars from fights. It wouldn't surprise me if they protected his actual ear organ by being there to take the brunt of it. And of course pendulant ears are a big advantage in a scenthound which is why they're there. But Argos is a peaceful soul who got beaten up a lot. Not a fighting bone in his body. But still I am glad it's his hanging ears that got bitten and not the inside of his ear.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

heidizag said:


> On the utility of natural vs. cropped ears in fights:
> 
> Argos has the hanging hound ears and they are coated in scars from fights. It wouldn't surprise me if they protected his actual ear organ by being there to take the brunt of it. And of course pendulant ears are a big advantage in a scenthound which is why they're there. But Argos is a peaceful soul who got beaten up a lot. Not a fighting bone in his body. But still I am glad it's his hanging ears that got bitten and not the inside of his ear.


I learned a dog can still cause good damage to a dogs inner ear and head even when grabbing on to a floppy ear,sense they don't always have just ear in their mouth. I don't know about hounds just between a fight between Raggy and a loose pit,Raggy dominated that fight just because of that and that dog bled like crazy. The pit despite originally getting my dogs neck couldn't get any hold or ground afterwards. In fact I heard in a older fighting dog book that ear dogs tend to run supreme because the control they have over the other dog. So I can understand why some bother to crop,while not all game dogs are cropped is because of the fighting rules and doesn't tend to be the ultimatum in that kind of match. Live stock guardians are done for similar reasons,especially sense no-one can break them apart when guarding a flock unlike with pits.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I feel you on ACDs, my late female would let me do anything to her, but when she had to go to the vet for a snake bite, she bit two techs so badly they needed stitches ... and that was just trying to get the muzzle on. If they had bothered to ask me I would have done it for them.


How kind of you to offer, lolz.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

BigLittle said:


> At one time, dobermanns did have a crop that made their ears both small and menacing.
> Now, their ears have to be taped a lot to get the look for the show ring.
> 
> To be honest, I find the old crop more menacing...


Well, they kind of had to be cut short because anesthetic wasn't in wide use at the time and I'm sure it's difficult to get a nice long cut on a conscious dog :/. Whenever I hear people say "Dobes have to be cropped because that's what the breed founder wanted", I remember that and wonder what kind of person thinks it's OK to do that to a dog and then I don't care what the breed founder wanted.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I have a Doberman that is uncropped but she had her tail docked when I got her. I like the look of some Dobermans that are cropped but there is such a wide variety of types of crops that there are a lot I do not like. I did not get Kris cropped as I got her at 11 weeks which is a little old to do it even if I had wanted to. I do not think she looks anything like a Hound.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

To go back to the original question. I hate when people say their dog is "just trying to play" when she bites your dog. There was a Golden Retriever that would go after our little dogs in an Agility class and they just kept saying it was just trying to play as it stood there with a mouthful of hair. Kris had a German Shepherd go after her the other day, she would have played with it but it grabbed her hard enough to make her yelp and she would have run off but I had her on leash, the Shepherd was loose. It did not leave a mark but I don't consider that "playing". It was the same Shepherd that tried to get Remmy and ended up biting me on the finger.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Kyllobernese said:


> To go back to the original question. I hate when people say their dog is "just trying to play" when she bites your dog. There was a Golden Retriever that would go after our little dogs in an Agility class and they just kept saying it was just trying to play as it stood there with a mouthful of hair. Kris had a German Shepherd go after her the other day, she would have played with it but it grabbed her hard enough to make her yelp and she would have run off but I had her on leash, the Shepherd was loose. It did not leave a mark but I don't consider that "playing". It was the same Shepherd that tried to get Remmy and ended up biting me on the finger.


There was a dog like that in my other class before I got moved up to intermediate, it was a Malinios and he had horrible DA, I mean horrible, and his owner clearly couldnt control him, I always made sure Josefina stayed away from him and that when we waited for our turn, we were as far away from him as we could get LOL


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *BigLittle* View Post
> It's largely tradition for dogs' ears to be cropped now, but they do have a real function.
> 
> I think the reason they are especially popular in bull breeds and some mastiff breeds is so if the dog gets in a fight with an animal, the ear cannot be damaged or used as leverage to subdue it. I've seen photos of mastiffs from rural Central Asia and they all have nubby little ears where almost the whole flap was removed. These dogs are bred and used to fight wolves to protect flocks, not for style.
> ...





BigLittle said:


> Can they do their traditional jobs uncropped? Absolutely.
> Can they do their traditional jobs just that much better when cropped? I think so.
> Is it needed in today's modern lifestyle? Rarely.
> 
> Like I said, it's tradition for the most part now. IMO docking and cropping housepets is unessecary, but there is a viable use for it in some working dog populations.





The Central Asian Ovcharka (Shepherd Dog) isn't a mastiff number one, they are a molossoid breed of the mountain type. 
Which is not the same thing.
Btw Tibetan Mastiffs, Spanish Mastiffs and Pyrenean Mastiffs aren't true mastiffs either just like Tibetan Terriers aren't terriers and Tibetan Spaniels aren't Spaniels. It is a misnomer.

And second, cropping & docking is typically done in all CAO's (_unless it's illegal in the particular country of the breeder_), not just in rural ones.
Cropping and docking has become a signature look of that breed. To the point that most people in this breed won't buy a CAO puppy unless it has been cropped and docked.

The tradition of cropping/docking in CAO's has very little to do with their job.
If it did, then how come in most other livestock guardian breeds there has never been a tradition of cropping/docking and those dogs have successfully been doing the exact same job uncropped/undocked for many centuries now?

In fact according to literature written by people who have been there, when shepherds in Central Asia were asked why they were cutting off the tails of their dogs, they would often respond that in the winter dogs will usually cover their noses with their tails. 
And they then thought that because of this the dogs wouldn't be able to smell the predators that good.
So they would cut off their tails when the pups are 2-4 days old.

Ear cropping/cutting has traditionally been done in CAO's & also in CO's when the puppies were just a couple of days old or so (_in CAO's they would cut off tails and ears on the same day_). 
It has been written in literature that many times when shepherds were asked why they cropped ears, they would answer that amongst other reasons this was done so the dogs could hear the predators better.

And apparently in an article originally appearing in the April, 1980, issue of "Amateur Farmer", it was mentioned that "…_the Turks say that you have to make the dogs vicious, and crop their ears so the flies keep them awake_."

My point is, the tradition of cropping/docking in some LGD breeds didn't necessarily develop due to practical reasons. But that the local believes played a role as well. 
This tradition was then upheld in our modern times mainly for aesthetics. The vast majority of people don't want a CO with uncropped ears or a CAO with ears & tail. 
And another point I'm trying to make is that cropped/docked LGD's don't do their jobs much better than their uncropped/undocked counterparts.
If that was the case, then all LGD breeds would have been cropped & docked over the centuries. 
But in reality only a few breeds were. 


I prefer dogs au naturel, but I'm not against docking tails/cutting off ears per se. 
Our female CO has cropped/cut off ears because pretty much all CO breeders in U.S. cut them off when the pups are only 2-3 days old. 
Our male on the other hand has uncropped ears, cause cropping/docking is illegal in the Netherlands (_where we got him from and where I was living at the time_). 
I have seen no benefit to cropped ears in CO's. But I have seen benefits to natural ears.
And in the future, when possible, I'd prefer to get uncropped CO's 




ireth0 said:


> I would buy that... except there are lots of other breeds that serve the same purpose (guardian breeds, protection breeds) whose ears aren't cut and are able to do their job just fine.


Exactly





> Originally Posted by *sassafras *
> The "not grabbing ears" thing always seems ridiculous to me because it seems WAY easier to grab a long dobe crop than floppy ears in the middle of a scuffle.
> 
> I think it was probably just meant to make them look more serious.





OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yes it was. Any other reason is just for political correctness.



I completely agree.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I had another instance this weekend where I was asked if Hank's tail was cut off. I said, yeah, someone somewhere docked him before I got him. Then they were like 'Oh that's so sad.'

Is this common? Hank is my first docked or cropped dog. Do other people with docked/cropped dogs get asked this too?


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Laurelin said:


> I had another instance this weekend where I was asked if Hank's tail was cut off. I said, yeah, someone somewhere docked him before I got him. Then they were like 'Oh that's so sad.'
> 
> Is this common? Hank is my first docked/cropped dog. Do other people with docked/cropped dogs get asked this too?


I get asked all the time if Kairi's tail was cut off or if they come that way. A lot of people don't know that they can come natural bobbed. Anyways, I generally answer "Yes and yes. They can come in multiple tail sizes but they traditionally dock them all at a few days old." If I answer that way, I generally don't get the "oh that's so sad". If I just say "yes she is docked" then I might. I think it's because people like the education of "Oh I didn't know they -could- naturally come without a tail!

Some people legitimately believe there is no such thing as a natural bob and are really crazy mean about docking.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

My Giant doesn't get any "that's so sad"s about his docked tail, but he does get them occasionally about his ears. But his ears are pretty messed up. He's still handsome, though.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I have a picture in a book of a Marremma Sheepdog with cropped ears and are still accepted in actual working dogs,so some more breeds may have had it in the past. Otherwise it seems the dogs meant to fight wolves and still do their job today are more likely to be cropped thus CAO's and Kangals. Wolves are a much bigger threat to a dog than a Coyote or the average stray,so only a couple breeds are seen fit to use.

A lot of other protection breeds seem to either have naturally up ears or cropped actually,dogs like Rotts where originally bred for herding/drafting so would not be cropped based on existing breed standard.

But I will agree the ear thing is not likely a big deal with working dogs,there are more vital parts to go for. Especially with the long ears and long narrow neck of a Doberman,so is more of an excuse now.
But I believe there has been some reasoning behind the procedure.

With my own dog I have gotten some questions about why his tail is there,someone saying how sad it was. But he's perfectly happy without it,can even even wag it so I don't really care. Plus I would be willing to have a un-docked Rottweiler in the future,tail makes little difference. With Dobes I like the military style crop is all I`ll say.


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> I had another instance this weekend where I was asked if Hank's tail was cut off. I said, yeah, someone somewhere docked him before I got him. Then they were like 'Oh that's so sad.'
> 
> Is this common? Hank is my first docked/cropped dog. Do other people with docked/cropped dogs get asked this too?


IRL? Not really. For me, those kinds of comments are much more common and happen most frequently on the internet.


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Foresthund said:


> I have a picture in a book of a Marremma Sheepdog with cropped ears and are still accepted in actual working dogs,so some more breeds may have had it in the past. Otherwise it seems the dogs meant to fight wolves and still do their job today are more likely to be cropped thus CAO's and Kangals. Wolves are a much bigger threat to a dog than a Coyote or the average stray,so only a couple breeds are seen fit to use.
> 
> A lot of other protection breeds seem to either have naturally up ears or cropped actually,dogs like Rotts where originally bred for herding/drafting so would not be cropped based on existing breed standard.
> 
> ...




Ear cropping was always on occasion done in Maremma's. But from what I understand it wasn't a wide practice like it was in Central Asia and on Caucasus. 
Some shepherds in Italy still do it (even though ear cropping is apparently banned in Italy: http://www.dobermann-review.com/info_library/Misc/Cropping_and_docking/index.php ).
These pictures for example were taken in August of 2014: https://www.facebook.com/elfiv.gorode/media_set?set=a.682049151879443.1073741839.100002230928918&type=3


Occasionally Bulgarian shepherds would also cut off ears (usually just one ear). When asked, they would say it was done so the dog could hear the predators better.

But again, this also wasn't done on a large scale as it was done in Caucasus and Central Asia.

All LGD's have naturally small, floppy ears. 
LGD's are a "separate" group of dogs, their history, use and temperament is different from other, non-LGD protection breeds. 

All LGD's were developed to protect livestock from wolves (and other predators too). Not just a couple like CAO's or Kangal's, so not sure why you only mention these two breeds. 
Besides, the wolves in Central Asia and Turkey are rather small. 
Especially when compared to wolves in say the Carpathian Mountain range. And yet in that region there was never a widespread tradition of cropping/docking.

But also, LGD's rarely actually fight wolves. This was even mentioned in some studies.
Their whole purpose is to deter predators, make them go look elsewhere for easier prey. Thus LGD's (when run in the right numbers and under the right setting) are a good non-lethal predator control method. 
In this one Georgian video about the working CO's being used as LGD's it is even mentioned that a physical fight between LGD's and wolves, occurs maybe once or twice out of a hundred cases (you have to fast forward to the 14th minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVAvdrVoYac&feature=related ).

If ear cropping would make a big difference, then all of the shepherds in the Old World would have been doing it.
Raising livestock was often their main source of income back then (still is to some) and having effective dogs was incredibly important. They also culled heavily. 
And yet only a smaller minority has a history of cropping and docking.


Most of LGD's working in U.S./Canada today in open range settings are uncropped/undocked. Such as these dogs here: https://www.facebook.com/cat.urbigkit/photos_all
And these dogs have to deal with the much larger North American wolves.



Here's the bottom line for me: if people want to crop/dock their LGD's because it makes them look more serious, then more power to them.
But it's one of my pet peeves when someone says that cropped/docked LGD's are somehow more effective than their au naturel counterparts. 
And that therefor this is why cropping/docking should be done. 
When going with the data + experience of others and my own experience, cropping/docking LGD's doesn't makes them more effective at their job.

And as I said, the whole cropping and docking thing in LGD breeds was heavily influenced by the believes of the locals.

Some other examples of such believes that influenced breeding selection:
According to literature and TM people who have traveled to Tibet and done tons of research (_btw TM's also have no history of being cropped/docked_), the Tibetans would prefer B&T dogs with tan spots above their eyes.
They would refer to such markings as "four eyes". And they believed that such dogs never really slept and could protect them from evil spirits.
And then a white mark on the chest was desired, cause it was a sign of bravery to them.
While the white marking on the tail was a sign of cowardliness and very much unwanted by the Tibetans.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

MountainDogs said:


> Ear cropping was always on occasion done in Maremma's. But from what I understand it wasn't a wide practice like it was in Central Asia and on Caucasus.
> Some shepherds in Italy still do it (even though ear cropping is apparently banned in Italy: http://www.dobermann-review.com/info_library/Misc/Cropping_and_docking/index.php ).
> These pictures for example were taken in August of 2014: https://www.facebook.com/elfiv.gorode/media_set?set=a.682049151879443.1073741839.100002230928918&type=3
> 
> ...


Just that they where the more successfully used on wolves,I`m too lazy to read the whole thing again but got the idea from this article. http://www.lgd.org/library/protectiondogs.pdf

I can imagine though if a LGD was attacked by two wolves or large dogs and one grabbed its ear while the other chewed on it,it would be a goner. So their may be a lot of myth with it but maybe not 100% so.


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

The link you provided isn't some kind of a scientific study though.
It is a review of literature on LGD's, done with the sole purpose of speculating which would be the most effective breeds to deter wolves in N. America based on the criteria of the author in the link you provided.
Several different breeds were mentioned as *potentially* good wolf deterrents.
A few things written in this review aren't very accurate in my opinion and weren't translated correctly from some languages to English, but that's a whole 'nother topic all together.

Btw, the woman behind this review (Cat U.) is the same person who I mentioned in my previous posts. 
When I placed that FB link as an example of someone running LGD's in U.S. in open range settings. Wolves are one of their main predators.
And yet most of Cat's dogs are uncropped/undocked. I think only her CAO imports were cropped & docked, cause that's how they came.


At the moment the USDA's Wildlife Services program is conducting a study to determine the effectiveness of "larger, more assertive" (their words, not mine) LGD breeds against wolves and bears in some Western states.
For this they chose the Kangal, the Karakachan and the Cão de Gado Transmontano.
Here's a link: http://www.capitalpress.com/Livestock/20141202/study-analyzes-new-guard-dog-breeds

To my knowledge none of the dogs involved in this study are cropped. 


From what I understand, when wolves do attack LGD's, ears aren't really the first thing they go for anyway. 
The ears of well bred LGD's are small, floppy and thick. LGD breeds are also said to have thick, elastic skin.
Which (it is said) helps them to turn around when they are grabbed by a predator.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

To answer the original question in this thread. I am now and have always been intimidated by any dog that is not under the control of a responsible owner. I don't care if it is a Rottweiler, Pit Bull or Dachshund. The breeds that have been the biggest problems in my life have been Yorkies, Doxies, Labs, Golden's a St. Bernard at the dog park and the Pit Bull that lives next door to me and has attacked several other neighbor hood dogs if their owners dare to walk them past his house. 

I am surprised how many people on this thread are afraid of Rottweiler's. I really thought that we (Rottie lovers) have made much more progress then that on showing people how great and sweet this breed can be.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> How kind of you to offer, lolz.


Well, they had a policy that said I wasnt allowed, when I read that I was like "Okay ... so be it." She wasnt scared or traumatized ... but I am sure the poor people who worked there were :/


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I had another instance this weekend where I was asked if Hank's tail was cut off. I said, yeah, someone somewhere docked him before I got him. Then they were like 'Oh that's so sad.'
> 
> Is this common? Hank is my first docked or cropped dog. Do other people with docked/cropped dogs get asked this too?


At the vets for Lincoln's last shots, I was asked why I "cropped the tail of my BC??" they also had a BC, I LOL'd at this because even if he WAS a BC ... I have no control over his tail being cropped, that is done WAY before the puppy buyer gets them anyway. I was like "He is not a BC, he is a mini aussie ... and thats why his tail is cropped."

xD


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> I had another instance this weekend where I was asked if Hank's tail was cut off. I said, yeah, someone somewhere docked him before I got him. Then they were like 'Oh that's so sad.'
> 
> Is this common? Hank is my first docked or cropped dog. Do other people with docked/cropped dogs get asked this too?


Not in my experience. I've never had a remark about Jack and he's obviously docked.


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## Sammiedog234 (Jan 18, 2015)

Bully breeds and dogs off leash in general with no owner in sight. For my dogs only pits and rots off leash. Although I have a chow mix and gsd mix and I have seen these breeds mentioned a bit. 

My chow mix is very good with other dogs and has protected me and the pup on occasion from dogs and strange people without one growl or teeth baring incident.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> I had another instance this weekend where I was asked if Hank's tail was cut off. I said, yeah, someone somewhere docked him before I got him. Then they were like 'Oh that's so sad.'
> 
> Is this common? Hank is my first docked or cropped dog. Do other people with docked/cropped dogs get asked this too?


No one has ever said anything to me about Katie and Tyson, but I try to avoid people in general so there haven't been many opportunities for people to comment.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Honestly, fat labs make me nervous.

Yes they have to be fat and labs of any kind. Why? 

I use to be a groomer and only the fat and obese labs would try to bite and attack me. Fit and healthy labs were usually better trained and friendly. 
I've also been disproportionately attacked on the street while walking by fat labs.
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future they became one of the dogs on the "dangerous breeds list"


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

there is a dog at agility that has really bad barrier aggression, she doesnt make me nervous for me, but more for my dogs. I cant understand why anyone would put up with a dog who does that, the owner doesnt even try to stop it, they only say the dogs name and are like "stop that! why are you doing that!" -_-


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## Quito (May 3, 2013)

Yellow labs make me anxious. I was attacked by a friend's yellow lab when I was 5 (we were playing the yard, having a dirt clod war and as soon as I threw my piece that dog was on me), and after that every single yellow lab that my neighbors had were always aggressive. I had to dog sit for one of my neighbors who had a rottweiler, a pitbull, and a yellow lab. Guess who bit me? The yellow lab. :| 
I'm also uncomfortable around my neighbor's mini pin, that thing likes to hide in my bushes and attack my feet as soon as I take one step out the door. To be honest, any dog that belongs to anyone on my street makes me nervous because all the owners are downright horrible..


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Laurelin said:


> Not any particular breed but I have gotten the willies from certain large dogs that give off disconcerting vibes to me. There is a large black mutt at the park here and I just don't like that dog. I don't trust it at all. Can't pinpoint exactly why but I just think he's trouble.


About a month after posting this, this dog went off on a random guy at the park with no provocation. Yep. At least I know my dog senses are working.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

What makes me nervous are owners, not so much the dogs. I cant tell you how many people just let their dogs barrel right up to mine when I am sitting in the lobby, waiting for agility to open. I try to stick my lag out and block them from mauling poor Lincoln (in a good way, but still). UGH.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Flaming said:


> Honestly, fat labs make me nervous.
> 
> Yes they have to be fat and labs of any kind. Why?
> 
> ...



Alright at first this totally cracked me up and then I thought about all the Labs that I have had issues with (there have been many) and you know what? MOST if not all of them were fat. They are probably miserable with themselves and let out their frustration in an aggressive way. It is also proof to the fact that the owner doesn't do enough with them as throwing food at them isn't enough.


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## Sunak (Jul 3, 2014)

Miniature Pomeranians terrify me. A Min Pom attacked my car, breaking two windows, tearing off a side mirror, and leaving a huge dent on the front hood.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

You sure it was a pom and not a bear? I understand how you could get confused; they look pretty similar. No judgement.


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

Crantastic said:


> You sure it was a pom and not a bear? I understand how you could get confused; they look pretty similar. No judgement.


Haha. I lol'd.


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## Sunak (Jul 3, 2014)

Crantastic said:


> You sure it was a pom and not a bear?


A faux-jewel covered collar that spelled "Cindy". I read it just before she kicked the window in with a grimace. I lost consciousness when the glass hit me.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

What does that prove? A bear could totally be called Cindy. I know a bear called Mindy, and that's close enough.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sunak said:


> Miniature Pomeranians terrify me. A Min Pom attacked my car, breaking two windows, tearing off a side mirror, and leaving a huge dent on the front hood.


Uh ... what??? Is this meant to be a joke? If so, LOL ... if not, WTF???


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## ellag (Feb 5, 2015)

chows. when I was a pediatric nurse almost every serious bite wound we got was from a chow.

huskies mainly because my daughter was attacked by our neighbors dog when she was 6 and had to get stitches in her arm and hand. she did nothing to the dog, she was just walking down the sidewalk and he got loose. when the cops and animal control came the dog lunged at the cop's throat so he was put down.

Weimaraner, I was bit in the face by one just for bending down to pet him. he bit completely through my lip.

even tho I've had 1 pitbull who was a gentle, friendly dog I am still very leery of them. I would never get another one now that I have a 14 month old granddaughter.

any other large guard type dog, GSD, dobe, rottie etc...


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## namedadogindiana (Oct 14, 2014)

Pitbulls, for sure.

Well... I'm not exactly afraid of the dogs. I am acquainted with several people who have pits. I'm just afraid of being seen in public with them, lest people get the wrong idea about me.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

I'm going to echo what a lot of people seem to be saying here; there's no specific _breed of dog_ that I would say I am afraid of, in fact my favourite dog is a Danetiff (great dane x mastiff). That being said, I would never approach any dog that looks like its being mistreated, poorly socialized/trained, or just completely ignored by their owners. It's not really the dog that scares me, its the possibility of lack of knowledge on the owners part that truly terrifies me


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

BigLittle said:


> At one time, dobermanns did have a crop that made their ears both small and menacing.
> Now, their ears have to be taped a lot to get the look for the show ring.
> 
> To be honest, I find the old crop more menacing...


Yeah... The new show crops are just amusing. They often look great, but every time I see a particularly striking show crop the only thing that goes through my mind is:


"Nananana nananana BATMAN!"

Yep.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Chows. I have never been bitten by one before or anything like that.
I just am not a fan and truthfully have no interest in befriending one


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ellag said:


> chows. when I was a pediatric nurse almost every serious bite wound we got was from a chow.
> 
> huskies mainly because my daughter was attacked by our neighbors dog when she was 6 and had to get stitches in her arm and hand. she did nothing to the dog, she was just walking down the sidewalk and he got loose. when the cops and animal control came the dog lunged at the cop's throat so he was put down.
> 
> ...


You know, a lot of dogs deem strangers looming down over them to pet them threatening, even my 5 month old puppy doesnt like it. I for one NEVER bend down over a dog I dont know to pet it, I always let the DOG approach me from the side and I stroke them that way (if it is a larger dog) if its a small dog, I will crouch down so I dont appear so threatening.

Of course, I "loom" over my own dogs, but they know me, and no, they dont like it when someone they dont know does it to them. they will usually back away (especially the puppy) and give them this suspicious look LOL.


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## ChelseaOliver (Nov 5, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> You know, a lot of dogs deem strangers looming down over them to pet them threatening, even my 5 month old puppy doesnt like it. I for one NEVER bend down over a dog I dont know to pet it, I always let the DOG approach me from the side and I stroke them that way (if it is a larger dog) if its a small dog, I will crouch down so I dont appear so threatening.
> 
> Of course, I "loom" over my own dogs, but they know me, and no, they dont like it when someone they dont know does it to them. they will usually back away (especially the puppy) and give them this suspicious look LOL.


Definitely this. I always make it a point to never, ever bend over a dog I don't know, or even stand in what could be interpreted as an aggressive or scary way over them. It's actually surprising how many people who will bend over or down to pet my older dog (coincidentally a pit bull mix) and when she growls - which she usually doesn't, this seems to just be with people she really doesn't like - they don't move away! She'll growl low and continuous, staring them right in the eyes, and I have to tell them to move away from her. Odd.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Wouldn't you be terrified if you had some huge strange thing coming at you arms open babbling nonsense? Even the best trained dogs would be afraid of this. Not a lot of people know proper dog etiquette. Yes, there is definitely dog etiquette that people seem to be missing:

Don't approach a dog you don't know
Always ask the owner if its safe to pet the dog
Stay calm around new dogs/ignore new dogs
NEVER touch/pet/pick up another person's dog without the owners permission
Listen to the owner - if they say "no" its usually for a good reason
Be level with the dog so as to make it feel safer, not like you're looming over them
etc...

sidenote: when I say people I'm generally speaking of the non-dog people


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## The German Shepherd Dog (Feb 11, 2015)

I love Golden Retrievers also!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

missc89 said:


> Wouldn't you be terrified if you had some huge strange thing coming at you arms open babbling nonsense? Even the best trained dogs would be afraid of this. Not a lot of people know proper dog etiquette. Yes, there is definitely dog etiquette that people seem to be missing:
> 
> Don't approach a dog you don't know
> Always ask the owner if its safe to pet the dog
> ...


Yeah Lincoln hates it when people do that, some do even after I tell them not to, and they look at him like there must be something wrong with him if he doesnt like them because *every* dog likes them!  Noooooo nothing is wrong with him, YOU are just a stranger!


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yeah Lincoln hates it when people do that, some do even after I tell them not to, and they look at him like there must be something wrong with him if he doesnt like them *because every dog likes them*!  Noooooo nothing is wrong with him, YOU are just a stranger!


Oh man that has got to be one of my favourite comments from people of all time. That, and when people start with "you know what you should do?"


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

missc89 said:


> Oh man that has got to be one of my favourite comments from people of all time. That, and when people start with "you know what you should do?"


And there is nothing wrong with him ... he is acting like his breed standard says he should, aloof and suspicious of strangers! People think that hs is "just scared" or wasnt socialized. No ... he is socialized and is isnt scared, he just doesnt want to be touched by strangers he doesnt know, and I dont see anything wrong with that, I for one dont want an attention whore of a dog!


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Preach! I'd rather have a dog who is wary of strangers until I tell my dog that that person is okay to interact with (another pro for Aussies!!) People who haven't owned dogs (or who have and aren't very good owners) don't understand how intimidating it can be for dogs to in a huge world with a bunch of different sights, smells and sounds that we can't even hear, but they do.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

missc89 said:


> Preach! I'd rather have a dog who is wary of strangers until I tell my dog that that person is okay to interact with (another pro for Aussies!!) People who haven't owned dogs (or who have and aren't very good owners) don't understand how intimidating it can be for dogs to in a huge world with a bunch of different sights, smells and sounds that we can't even hear, but they do.


Yeah, its so wild how polar opposite they are from ACDs, how that actually CARE about pleasing you, of course they like rewards, but they also do it because they WANT to! An ACD will listen usually only if they know there is something in it for them (or if they know they will lose something if they dont LOL). Also Lincoln is so biddable, so easily redirected from something he isnt supposed to do! he doesnt have that "screw you" attitude that ACDs have.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

namedadogindiana said:


> Pitbulls, for sure.
> 
> Well... I'm not exactly afraid of the dogs. I am acquainted with several people who have pits. I'm just afraid of being seen in public with them, lest people get the wrong idea about me.


Afraid of being seen in public with who, Pit Bulls or the people you're acquainted with?


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

namedadogindiana said:


> Pitbulls, for sure.
> 
> Well... I'm not exactly afraid of the dogs. I am acquainted with several people who have pits. I'm just afraid of being seen in public with them, lest people get the wrong idea about me.


Really? So only low class people or criminals, or bad people own Pits?


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## namedadogindiana (Oct 14, 2014)

RCloud said:


> Afraid of being seen in public with who, Pit Bulls or the people you're acquainted with?


Either, really. I've worked pretty hard to get to where I am. I'd hate for someone to think I'm a "pitbull person" and ruin all I've worked for.


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## namedadogindiana (Oct 14, 2014)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Really? So only low class people or criminals, or bad people own Pits?


Only? No. But the ones who aren't are really the exception to the rule. When I've got an 18 at the blackjack table, I know there are several 3s in the deck. Doesn't mean I'm going to take a card.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

namedadogindiana said:


> Either, really. I've worked pretty hard to get to where I am. I'd hate for someone to think I'm a "pitbull person" and ruin all I've worked for.


What does that even mean? I'll happily sing the praises of bullies all day long, and own a bully looking dog. What do you think of me?


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## namedadogindiana (Oct 14, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> What does that even mean? I'll happily sing the praises of bullies all day long, and own a bully looking dog. What do you think of me?


I don't know enough about you to make an accurate assessment. It's public perception I'm talking about, not my own feelings on the matter. Don't sic your aggressive breed dog on the messenger.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm trying to figure out how owning a pit bull, much less being seen with one, would ruin all you've worked for. Is it that easily ruined?

I'm a graduate student, nearing the beginning of my professional career, and I'd guess there's not much my peers and patients would care LESS about. One of my professors actually owns (and dotes on and shares stories about) a rescued pitty.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

namedadogindiana said:


> I don't know enough about you to make an accurate assessment. It's public perception I'm talking about, not my own feelings on the matter. Don't sic your aggressive breed dog on the messenger.


You don't know enough about me to make an assessment... but you arguably know even less about my dog and feel comfortable saying she's an aggressive breed. Logic abounds.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

To be perfectly honest, yes, in some places for some people, owning a pit bull would be a risky thing to do if they valued their reputation in the community. For instance, in the town I live in, I could get away with owning a pittie (or Rott!) because I'm white and female and non-tattoed, etc. They say "aww, she rescues dogs, isn't that nice". If a man of color, a tattoed guy with a mohawk, a goth-ish emo dude, anyone who is already considered suspicious, owned a pit bull/Rott in this town, all the old ladies would suspect him of dealing meth within a week and would treat him badly. The cops would drive by his house every 3 minutes and everybody would tell their kids not to walk past his house. They would likely avoid his place of business unless they had no alternative. So, yeah, racism/classism/etc. sucks but it does exist. Stronger in some places than others.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Willowy said:


> To be perfectly honest, yes, in some places for some people, owning a pit bull would be a risky thing to do if they valued their reputation in the community. For instance, in the town I live in, I could get away with owning a pittie (or Rott!) because I'm white and female and non-tattoed, etc. They say "aww, she rescues dogs, isn't that nice". If a man of color, a tattoed guy with a mohawk, a goth-ish emo dude, anyone who is already considered suspicious, owned a pit bull/Rott in this town, all the old ladies would suspect him of dealing meth within a week and would treat him badly. The cops would drive by his house every 3 minutes and everybody would tell their kids not to walk past his house. They would likely avoid his place of business unless they had no alternative. So, yeah, racism/classism/etc. sucks but it does exist. Stronger in some places than others.


So what you're saying is that it isn't about the dog, but about your racial demographics/gender/physical appearance.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Willowy said:


> To be perfectly honest, yes, in some places for some people, owning a pit bull would be a risky thing to do if they valued their reputation in the community. For instance, in the town I live in, I could get away with owning a pittie (or Rott!) because I'm white and female and non-tattoed, etc. They say "aww, she rescues dogs, isn't that nice". If a man of color, a tattoed guy with a mohawk, a goth-ish emo dude, anyone who is already considered suspicious, owned a pit bull/Rott in this town, all the old ladies would suspect him of dealing meth within a week and would treat him badly. The cops would drive by his house every 3 minutes and everybody would tell their kids not to walk past his house. They would likely avoid his place of business unless they had no alternative. So, yeah, racism/classism/etc. sucks but it does exist. Stronger in some places than others.


I'm betting that even without the dog, all the old ladies would suspect him of something.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

You realize there are a LOT of very highly respected and successful people in this world who own Pit Bulls, right? I think you being so narrow minded and judgemental says more about your character than owning a Pit Bull.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

If someone wants to judge me based on the breed of dog I own, let them. I don't want to associate myself with _THOSE_ kinds of people anyway.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Effisia said:


> I'm betting that even without the dog, all the old ladies would suspect him of something.


Haha, true. But sometimes they accept different people. There was a black vet here, I think he started in the 70s and he had a really hard time getting accepted at first. People would let their cows die rather than call him. But it turned out he was great at his job and his wife was a good hostess so they became fully accepted into the community. Even my grandpa took his dogs to him and my grandpa was the most racist jerk ever. But anyone who's different and wants to be accepted by the nosy old ladies has to be SUPER careful to always be "respectable" and having a "scary" dog would certainly not help. If they do one thing that confirms someone's stereotypical prejudices, it's pretty much over for their reputation. 



> If someone wants to judge me based on the breed I own, let them. I don't want to associate myself with _THOSE_ kinds of people anyway.


That's all well and fine when picking your friends. But when someone is forced by circumstances to live somewhere with a high level of prejudice toward them, and they're trying to establish a business or community reputation, they need to play the game the community wants them to play :/.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Yes, classism and racism come into play when it comes to owning a "scary" dog like a pit, dobe, rottie, etc. As a white girl in a fairly nice area of the city, people always assume Bennie was rescued. I'm sure if I was black and even "looked" like I was from a different part of town, people might get a different area about both me and her. Doesn't mean people shouldn't own pits, but that's kind of how it is.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Willowy said:


> That's all well and fine when picking your friends. But when someone is forced by circumstances to live somewhere with a high level of prejudice toward them, and they're trying to establish a business or community reputation, they need to play the game the community wants them to play :/.


It's just sad that people still do this is all. Very frustrating to people who aren't judgmental and don't care as long as you're a good person. I don't get why people can't just say "Oh, look, that person is giving that dog a loving home. What a nice human being"


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

namedadogindiana said:


> Either, really. I've worked pretty hard to get to where I am. I'd hate for someone to think I'm a "pitbull person" and ruin all I've worked for.


If being seen with a pit bull would "ruin all you've worked for" you must not have achieved much of any real value or worth. :/

And you must have a very, very shaky reputation among your acquaintances that something so insignificant as being seen with a specific breed of dog would damage their opinion of you...

Not to mention, your acquaintances that would be so easily swayed must have all the charm, character and substance of a dirty nappy.


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

Willowy said:


> That's all well and fine when picking your friends. But when someone is forced by circumstances to live somewhere with a high level of prejudice toward them, and they're trying to establish a business or community reputation, they need to play the game the community wants them to play :/.


That depends on a lot of variables. 
Plenty of people succeed in business and have strong, positive community reputations without being society's doormats.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

namedadogindiana said:


> Either, really. I've worked pretty hard to get to where I am. I'd hate for someone to think I'm a "pitbull person" and ruin all I've worked for.


If being seen with a certain type of dog, would cause you "ruin what you have"..... You never had it in the first place.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

namedadogindiana said:


> Only? No. But the ones who aren't are really the exception to the rule. When I've got an 18 at the blackjack table, I know there are several 3s in the deck. Doesn't mean I'm going to take a card.


This shows you know zero of what you are talking about.... Those that aren't are the exception to the rule.... That is beyond hillarious. 

You have taken what you might have read or seen in the media.....And created something in your mind...... Without fact....

The very thought that a particular breed of dog could cause a person's social or socio economic status to change in any way, is very possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read..... In my life.....


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Gumiho said:


> That depends on a lot of variables.
> Plenty of people succeed in business and have strong, positive community reputations without being society's doormats.


Thanks for this - I wasn't really sure how to word it without sounding mean, but this!!!

And this too



JohnnyBandit said:


> This shows you know zero of what you are talking about.... Those that aren't are the exception to the rule.... That is beyond hillarious.
> 
> You have taken what you might have read or seen in the media.....And created something in your mind...... Without fact....
> 
> The very thought that a particular breed of dog could cause a person's social or socio economic status to change in any way, is very possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read..... In my life.....


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Effisia said:
> 
> 
> > I'm betting that even without the dog, all the old ladies would suspect him of something.
> ...


Fair enough, but there is a difference between trying to avoid BS in an area with a particular mentality while knowing better and avoiding that breed due to the same mindset. Charlotte may be the last Pit Bull I own, not because I think there's something wrong with the breed, but because it can be hard sometimes traveling to certain areas for work and running into BSL. Doesn't mean I'm going to be a prick to Pit Bulls or the people who own them.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

I kind of feel like people who judge others on what breed their dogs are would judge that person with or without the dog. Effisia said it best "I'm betting that even without the dog, all the old ladies would suspect him of something."

And you're totally right, your vet was having a hard time getting accepted because he was black and people were racist and put a prejudice on him. So now that we've (loosely) rectified that situation, let's move on to judging peoples dogs to base how we view that person? Awesome! Regression!


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Heh. Speaking of "scary dogs", I had Annabel with me outside of the liquor store while hubby was getting some wine. I kid you not, these women didn't notice us at first and then SCREAMED bloody murder and actually leapt into traffic to try to get away from her. And all she was doing was sitting next to me quietly. If people judge me for having a "big, scary black dog" whatever. My reputation can handle a few idiots.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Effisia said:


> Heh. Speaking of "scary dogs", I had Annabel with me outside of the liquor store while hubby was getting some wine. I kid you not, these women didn't notice us at first and then SCREAMED bloody murder and actually leapt into traffic to try to get away from her. And all she was doing was sitting next to me quietly. If people judge me for having a "big, scary black dog" whatever. My reputation can handle a few idiots.


She's got to be one of the least threatening dogs I've seen, mind you I LOVE Newfies (ok, I'm going to say I love breeds a LOT, but that's because it's so hard not to love them all equally!) and I probably would've started making those horrible baby noises and asking if it was OK to pet her.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I wish people would avoid me based on my breed(s) of dog. People rush Casper all the time because he's "soooooo cute," and he is MUCH more likely to bite than my brother's pit bull is.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Crantastic said:


> I wish people would avoid me based on my breed(s) of dog. People rush Casper all the time because he's "soooooo cute," and he is MUCH more likely to bite than my brother's pit bull is.


Catch 22 - people either fear the crap out of your dog, or think it's so cute that it's okay to do whatever they want to it


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## MazzyGirl (Jan 19, 2015)

I don't really have any fear of dogs. I will approach any dog and be just fine. I'm less comfortable around chows, however. My step-brother had a chow he thought was the best dog ever. Not surprised as that dog loved him and only him. He bit my step-father who just wanted to go into the bathroom. He snapped towards me, but did not bite me. He was very unpredictable. ANY sudden moves and he'd attack full on with no vocal warnings. He's always giving off the more subtle dog warnings, but just because I recognized them, doesn't mean my whole family could. 

I befriended a chow at the shelter I worked for who didn't like anyone. She trusted me partially, which is more than most, but still, she was weary of me. I knew her moods well enough to know if she wasn't going to be my friend that day. I had an incident with her when showing her to a prospective adopter. He wanted to see her and was used to chows. She got in his face and grabbed the paperwork he had and would not back down or let go of the papers. She wouldn't listen to me when I told her to sit. She never attacked me, but like I said, I am not comfortable with chows. I do like all dogs overall. 

I was trampled by my neighbor's dog's girlfriend/housemate. He was a German shepherd while she was a lab mix. He was not neutered, but she was spayed. The owners had some theory that there'd be no problem if they only spayed their girl. My grandmother freaked out. I understood why, but I had to calm her down more than myself. The male wanted to get frisky with his housemate, but she wanted none of it and ran to me for protection. My grandmother thought she was attacking me. I can't say it wasn't a dangerous situation, because the male was persistent on what he wanted and didn't want to accept "no" for an answer from her. But, seeing my grandmother drag me away from the situation and push the girl from me with her foot did distract him from his activity and the desire for some lovin' disappeared. My neighbors were told from then on to keep them on a leash. They were not happy. I still love shepherds and labs. I never felt afraid in that situation. I was more afraid of my grandmother getting hurt than myself.

My husband is very afraid of great danes. He was bit by a great dane when he was about 7. There's a scar left from the attack still. He's a tall man, but still that dane did scare him for life. He's very wary of large dog breeds now, but don't even try to get him near a great dane! A great dane breeder was at the county's state fair. He was walking around with his daddy great dane. What a sweetheart! I let the boys pet him, but my husband stayed no closer than 100 feet from us until we stepped away from the dog. I tried to get him to pet the obviously calm dog, but it was a no-go for that. I understand. I was just hoping he'd try. My step-brother's second dog was a Belgian Malinois. She was a very tall dog. Larger than average. Hubby and I stayed at his house once and his dog took a liking to my husband. He was being very brave considering how scared he was of her. I understand...she did greet us with a ton of barks...and she's loud! He slept on the futon in the game room. The dog was with my step brother, but some time during the night, she left and went to hang out with my husband. He pet her and became good buddies with her from then on. For a little bit, it was likely we were going to be keeping her at our home permanently because my step-brother was worried how she'd take to a baby in the house (he and his wife were expecting). But, she stayed with my step-brother and became a wonderful and loving big sister to their new baby. Hubby learned that not all large dogs are bad and has been taking steps to get comfortable with them. ...as long as they are not great danes.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Awesome story! 

Those are fears of dogs learned by behaviour, as in you've been conditioned to fear those kinds of dogs because you actually have REASONS, personal accounts of things that have happened to your PERSONALLY that have made you rethink those types of dog breeds. I think this is the difference between fearing a dog, and knowing enough about a certain breed to respect it from a distance (like Chows with you and Great Danes for your hubby)


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

missc89 said:


> Catch 22 - people either fear the crap out of your dog, or think it's so cute that it's okay to do whatever they want to it


As the owner of two fluffy, cute dogs (yes Josefina is subjected to this also, but she likes it!) unfortunately, poor lincoln gets most of the attention, much to his chagrin, because he hates it.


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## Cathartica (Feb 12, 2015)

Boxers scare me more than if like to admit... I don't know what it is about them...


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## MazzyGirl (Jan 19, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> As the owner of two fluffy, cute dogs (yes Josefina is subjected to this also, but she likes it!) unfortunately, poor lincoln gets most of the attention, much to his chagrin, because he hates it.


I know the feeling. My last two dogs were a shepherd mix female and a woolie Siberian husky female. Luckily for them, most people were attracted to my husky who loved people, but it was still frustrating to me for people to think they could just come up to my and start petting her without asking if it was OK. 

Only a few wanted to approach my shepherd who was afraid of most people. One time, these three kids on bikes want to pet my shepherd. She's very afraid of kids (abused as a puppy by a parent of a young toddler) and the bikes would normally terrify her. Thankfully, she was in a calm mood. I told them not to approach because she was afraid. The kids didn't listen to my pleas and approached anyway. I just held my dog's head close to me and blocked her view of them with my hands and pet her myself to mask the kids' touches. She remained calm and trusted I would protect her. The boys ran off after a minute or so and I praised her for being such a good girl. Normally, that scene would not have played out as nicely. I don't usually walk her around town while there's a lot of activity because of her stress, but it was very quiet that day. There were a few incidents (not biting, but fear reactions from my shepherd), but for the most part, I was able to avoid them.


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## namedadogindiana (Oct 14, 2014)

JohnnyBandit said:


> This shows you know zero of what you are talking about.... Those that aren't are the exception to the rule.... That is beyond hillarious.
> 
> You have taken what you might have read or seen in the media.....And created something in your mind...... Without fact....
> 
> The very thought that a particular breed of dog could cause a person's social or socio economic status to change in any way, is very possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read..... In my life.....


Not ridiculous. I don't want people to think I'm trash, and that's the way the public perceives pitbull owners. I don't make the rules, so don't blame me. And putting your head in the sand, calling it "ridiculous," doesn't make it any less true. 

Look, you're making this into a bigger argument than it is. No reason to be defensive. You're comfortable with your station in life, so image doesn't matter so much to you. And that's great. Takes all kinds to make the world go round.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm trying to think of the things I would consider when choosing a breed... Yea, image impacting my station in life doesn't really factor in at all.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

namedadogindiana said:


> Not ridiculous. I don't want people to think I'm trash, and that's the way the public perceives pitbull owners. I don't make the rules, so don't blame me. And putting your head in the sand, calling it "ridiculous," doesn't make it any less true.
> 
> Look, you're making this into a bigger argument than it is. No reason to be defensive. You're comfortable with your station in life, so image doesn't matter so much to you. And that's great. Takes all kinds to make the world go round.


Perception of social status and ACTUAL social status are not the same thing. I don't think anyone where would argue that different breeds have different reputations and that reputation can affect how the handler is perceived by random strangers. There are literally dozens of threads on this forum about people here having those exact experiences.

Yes, some people on the street will see someone with a pit bull and may assume the handler is a thug. That DOES NOT mean that getting a pit bull will directly cause you to loose your job, house, etc. and _become_ a thug.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Well if people think they can expunge the sin of some people unfairly judging other people by superficial measures from the human breast, good luck with that. As much as it's distastefully expressed, the poster has a point. For some professions, public perception DOES matter even if we don't like it.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

namedadogindiana said:


> Not ridiculous. I don't want people to think I'm trash, and that's the way the public perceives pitbull owners. I don't make the rules, so don't blame me. And putting your head in the sand, calling it "ridiculous," doesn't make it any less true.
> 
> Look, you're making this into a bigger argument than it is. No reason to be defensive. You're comfortable with your station in life, so image doesn't matter so much to you. And that's great. Takes all kinds to make the world go round.


It IS ridiculous. I don't know where you live where people are so judgemental and nasty as to judge a person's character based on their dog. Maybe it's got more to do with you being judgemental and making assumptions about what others think. Do YOU think everyone who owns a Pit Bulls is a "trashy thug"? If so, why? In 5 years of owning a Pit Bull, not one person has ever judged me because of that. It's in no way effected my job or my reputation. If anything, I seem to have gotten MORE respect from people, because the public is starting to realize Pit Bulls are no different than any other breed and all the BS about them being an "aggressive breed" is a myth and a giant load. Anyone who still believes that is gullible and narrow minded, and quite frankly I'd rather they stay away from me anyways.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

namedadogindiana said:


> Not ridiculous. I don't want people to think I'm trash, and that's the way the public perceives pitbull owners. I don't make the rules, so don't blame me. And putting your head in the sand, calling it "ridiculous," doesn't make it any less true.
> 
> Look, you're making this into a bigger argument than it is. No reason to be defensive. You're comfortable with your station in life, so image doesn't matter so much to you. And that's great. Takes all kinds to make the world go round.


You are the only one being defensive.....

The notion that you think someone would think you are trash for owning or being around any breed in particular is ridiculous.... No..... Ludicrous...... 

Nothing you have said is true....... You have no idea..... You make a ridiculous statement that is not defensible.....

Then you accuse others of making it a big deal? 
That is a good one..... 

If someone thinks you are trash because of the types of dogs you are around..... Well then your social standing is not what you perceive it to be..


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)




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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

"If there's an issue with the dog, the issue lies with the one holding the leash" - Pitbulls are 'bad dogs' because that's what SOCIETY has made them to be, so by continuing this, you are part of the problem.

ANY dog can be a bad dog if the wrong person raises it - the fact that you are attributing bad dog-parenting to pitbulls is like saying "all african-americans are bad people because of what the ones in the media are doing".


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

sassafras said:


> Well if people think they can expunge the sin of some people unfairly judging other people by superficial measures from the human breast, good luck with that. As much as it's distastefully expressed, the poster has a point. For some professions, public perception DOES matter even if we don't like it.


Public perception does matter to a lot of people (teachers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc.), but I don't think it's _defined_ by what breed of dog you own. I doubt the average person, looking at a middle-aged man in a crisp suit is going to automatically think he is trash because he is walking a pit bull. On the other hand, how many people would think exactly that of a young man wearing dark baggy clothing who was walking a lab?

I just don't think the breed of dog you own has a strong enough affect on public perception to actively change someone's station in life by itself.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> Public perception does matter to a lot of people (teachers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc.), but I don't think it's _defined_ by what breed of dog you own. I doubt the average person, looking at a middle-aged man in a crisp suit is going to automatically think he is trash because he is walking a pit bull. On the other hand, how many people would think exactly that of a young man wearing dark baggy clothing who was walking a lab?
> 
> I just don't think the breed of dog you own has a strong enough affect on public perception to actively change someone's station in life by itself.


No, dont you know? that "lab" would be automatically branded a "pit bull"!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

gingerkid said:


> Public perception does matter to a lot of people (teachers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc.), but I don't think it's _defined_ by what breed of dog you own. I doubt the average person, looking at a middle-aged man in a crisp suit is going to automatically think he is trash because he is walking a pit bull. On the other hand, how many people would think exactly that of a young man wearing dark baggy clothing who was walking a lab?
> 
> I just don't think the breed of dog you own has a strong enough affect on public perception to actively change someone's station in life by itself.


Your post caught my eye....

I grew up with APBTs.... And my folks were teachers.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

JohnnyBandit said:


> You are the only one being defensive.....
> 
> The notion that you think someone would think you are trash for owning or being around any breed in particular is ridiculous.... No..... Ludicrous......
> 
> ...


Well said. I am a middle aged white woman who walks her Rotties all over the place with pride. I don't think people see me as a gang banger or thug just because I am walking a "tough dog" around. 

Keep in mind that the people who WANT that image work on it in more ways then just having a Pit Bull on the end of the leash.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Inga said:


> Well said. I am a middle aged white woman who walks her Rotties all over the place with pride. I don't think people see me as a gang banger or thug just because I am walking a "tough dog" around.
> 
> Keep in mind that the people who WANT that image work on it in more ways then just having a Pit Bull on the end of the leash.


I was one of those ladies too!. It is your last sentence that says a lot. It is the the type of collar, leash, and the rest of the whole picture that speaks more than a breed. Heck, I am sure there is someone out there that can make a poodle look like a thug dog. 

I would like to point out that in other threads, if a fight breaks out the fingers are pointed at a pit looking dog and not the dog who caused the fight. Media and movies have a lot to do with our perception of people. Look at the TV shows that do studies on people who go into a store. A well dressed person get help or is ignored, a thug dresser gets followed around by security or salespeople. A black person is shown more distrust than a white shopper. There was a guy who took pills to turn him black. He was doing a research. He found that when he was black the cops stopped him all the time just walking down the street, as a white person the cops left him alone. It is sad but we do this to other humans. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RJ1dNMHVaY


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

FOR THOSE OF YOU AFRAID OF ROTTWEILERS



Greta says "Excuse me but does that include little old me?" "I will give you little snuggles so you won't be so afraid."


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Inga said:


> Well said. I am a middle aged white woman who walks her Rotties all over the place with pride. I don't think people see me as a gang banger or thug just because I am walking a "tough dog" around.
> 
> Keep in mind that the people who WANT that image work on it in more ways then just having a Pit Bull on the end of the leash.


 Nobody sees me as a gangbanger either but I'm white and entirely boring in every way. If I had married a black man (yes, this was almost a thing that happened) and we chose to stay in a small town, I would not choose to have Rotties or pitties just to prevent people from getting the wrong impression about him. Yeah, a black guy in a sharp suit walking a pit bull might not get harrassed but I really wouldn't want to have to dress up to walk my dog. Run out to walk your dog in sweatpants and suddenly the cops are following you around. It doesn't only happen to people who WANT that image. Sometimes that image is projected onto them whether they want it or not.

I realized this makes people around here sound like raging racists. They aren't really (most anyway). It's just an intense dislike/distrust of outsiders of any sort. And people of color are more obviously outsiders, whereas a conservatively dressed white person can pass for a local and might get benefit of the doubt. Once someone is accepted as not-an-outsider, they can be as different as they want and people will overlook it.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

*Obligate sarcasm here*

Yes, I am sure people think that my horse shoer, who rescues, fosters and pulls pit bulls and other bully type dogs and mixes from the local shelters is a "thug" LOL the notion that people will think you are a "gangsta" because you own a certain breed of dog is so idiotic that I cant even wrap my head around it.

Though there was a rottie, named Brutus in my agility class that was AWESOME I seriously wanted to steal him ... but alas I dont have the room for a dog that big LOL


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

namedadogindiana said:


> Cheap carpeting, tacky wallpaper, and a kid in a sleeveless shirt. Thanks for making my point for me.


LOL Judgmental much? Holy crap, I wouldn't come near you with a ten foot pole with that kind of attitude. You make me sad, I hope you get better <3


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

namedadogindiana said:


> Cheap carpeting, tacky wallpaper, and a kid in a sleeveless shirt. Thanks for making my point for me.


Seriously uncalled for. Talk about tacky!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

*MORE obligatory sarcasm* Cause I just cant help myself LOL



Here is me with my dog, complete with me having tattoos! ... oh wait! there is no tacky wallpaper or "tight sleeveless shirt" ... or a pit bull ... sorry. 



HERE's one of me in a "tight sleeveless shirt" ... oh wait! thats not a pit bull either! Or is it? He isnt registered so he might have some "pit bull" in his lineage somewhere! OH NO!!!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

namedadogindiana said:


> Cheap carpeting, tacky wallpaper, and a kid in a sleeveless shirt. Thanks for making my point for me.


Thanks for proving our point. Easy to see what type of person you are. Sans dog.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> *MORE obligatory sarcasm* Cause I just cant help myself LOL
> 
> Here is me with my dog, complete with me having tattoos! ... oh wait! there is no tacky wallpaper or "tight sleeveless shirt" ... or a pit bull ... sorry.
> 
> HERE's one of me in a "tight sleeveless shirt" ... oh wait! thats not a pit bull either! Or is it? He isnt registered so he might have some "pit bull" in his lineage somewhere! OH NO!!!


Oh come on you KNOW you're one of "those" people, just like me  I should really take a full-body pic and post it here...

1/2 shaved head with (dyed) red hair
3 facial piercings (so far)
Gauged ears
and at least oh... 10 tattoos (and counting)
Oh did I mention I'm like 5'9 and a really built girl? Like, I can make people run from me? Mwuahahahahaha. 

@namedadogindiana You know what? I think I WILL get a pitbull and I'll come visit! We'll go for walks around your neighbourhood and everything! It'll be GREAT! In fact, I'll also bring along a Cane Corso, a Boerboel, a Danetiff, a Rottie, an AST and maybe a Dobie just for good measure to make sure EVERYONE knows how much you LOVE big bad dogs!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

missc89 said:


> Oh come on you KNOW you're one of "those" people, just like me  I should really take a full-body pic and post it here...
> 
> 1/2 shaved head with (dyed) red hair
> 3 facial piercings (so far)
> ...


the bully breeds arent the dog for me, but I am sure I can find a friend who would be willing to let me borrow theirs for the day 

Also I have two tats, soon to have more (because they are like potato chips, you know) and not ONCE have I ever gotten a negative reaction from them. everyone thinks they are awesome looking (one is a pegasus, done in the traditional style, the other is a japanese dragon). I dont know what my next bit of art will be but I eventually want to have two half sleeves when I am finished.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> the bully breeds arent the dog for me, but I am sure I can find a friend who would be willing to let me borrow theirs for the day


Awesome! You know what I think would help though? I think everyone on this website with a bully breed should go and walk around his hometown with him, maybe that'll change his mind.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

missc89 said:


> Awesome! You know what I think would help though? I think everyone on this website with a bully breed should go and walk around his hometown with him, maybe that'll change his mind.


agreed! (too short)


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

missc89 said:


> Awesome! You know what I think would help though? I think everyone on this website with a bully breed should go and walk around his hometown with him, maybe that'll change his mind.


I think when people minds are made up, there is nothing you can do to change them. I personally am not cowardly enough to not have a certain breed of dog because someone out there MIGHT think me a thug. If they do...chances are they are not the type of people that I would care to hang with anyway. It takes a special kind of person to own a dog that has a bad reputation. You have to be willing to defend them, protect them and to educate others in a non confrontational way and when you least expect it. Not everyone can do that. Great thing about this world is everyone is different.

Oh and the kid in that picture is adorable and obviously brave enough to own up to loving one of "those dogs" good for him.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Inga said:


> I think when people minds are made up, there is nothing you can do to change them. I personally am not cowardly enough to not have a certain breed of dog because someone out there MIGHT think me a thug. If they do...chances are they are not the type of people that I would care to hang with anyway. It takes a special kind of person to own a dog that has a bad reputation. You have to be willing to defend them, protect them and to educate others in a non confrontational way and when you least expect it. Not everyone can do that. Great thing about this world is everyone is different.
> 
> Oh and the kid in that picture is adorable and obviously brave enough to own up to loving one of "those dogs" good for him.


Oh I don't actually think that would work lol I just really hate seeing peoples blatant ignorance. I will purposely get big dogs in hopes people come up to me and ask about it. (not based on this thread, big dogs are my true love)

I, like you, would just educate people. I find the lack of education is what makes people ignorant - e.g.: "well this is what I've heard from other people and I've never actually done any real research on the subject myself so I'll just go with what others tell me"

I research the crap out of everything - I can't help myself, but not everyone is like this. Some people take others words as gospel, and that's way too dangerous.

I feel like we've kind of high-jacked the thread though, and to be fair OP DID ask what dogs are you *afraid* of, not *what dog breeds do you think would make society turn their noses up at you* -whistles innocently-


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Willowy said:


> It doesn't only happen to people who WANT that image. Sometimes that image is projected onto them whether they want it or not.


Right, I feel like this very reasonable point is getting lost in a sea of hyperbole and self-congratulations.

Depending on the environment and the culture of the environment, things that _shouldn't_ make a difference _can_ make a difference in how people are perceived.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

sassafras said:


> Right, I feel like this very reasonable point is getting lost in a sea of hyperbole and self-congratulations.
> 
> Depending on the environment and the culture of the environment, things that _shouldn't_ make a difference _can_ make a difference in how people are perceived.


That has nothing to do with the dog - it solely rests on the fact that people still judge others, period, and that some people are more judgmental than others, and those people will sadly stick to their judgments without knowing the details of someones situation. Remove the dog and I'm sure they'll find something else to judge someone on.

"Don't judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes" 
"Looks aren't everything"
"Don't judge a book by its cover"

If you wanna judge me, go ahead, but don't expect any respect from me if you're going to stick to it without research or information. Isn't it considered _shallow_ to judge someone based on their looks anyway?


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## JeJo (Jul 29, 2013)

namedadogindiana said:


> Cheap carpeting, tacky wallpaper, and a kid in a sleeveless shirt. Thanks for making my point for me.


Oh for heaven's sake! And you're afraid of how being seen with a PB might affect the public's opinion of you???


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Inga said:


> I think when people minds are made up, there is nothing you can do to change them. I personally am not cowardly enough to not have a certain breed of dog because someone out there MIGHT think me a thug. If they do...chances are they are not the type of people that I would care to hang with anyway. It takes a special kind of person to own a dog that has a bad reputation. You have to be willing to defend them, protect them and to educate others in a non confrontational way and when you least expect it. Not everyone can do that. Great thing about this world is everyone is different.
> 
> Oh and the kid in that picture is adorable and obviously brave enough to own up to loving one of "those dogs" good for him.


Agreed! Great PSA to end breed stigma, IMO.

I for one wish I COULD (like ... wish I clicked with) any of the usually "taboo" breeds instead of liking and clicking with the cute, fluffy plush toy looking ones that EVERYONE seems to think is ok to maul when we are out and about. Esp Lincoln ... his "milkshake" brings everyone to the yard


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

missc89 said:


> That has nothing to do with the dog - it solely rests on the fact that people still judge others, period, and that some people are more judgmental than others, and those people will sadly stick to their judgments without knowing the details of someones situation. Remove the dog and I'm sure they'll find something else to judge someone on.


It does matter if the people doing the judging, judge people based on the kind of dog they have or the kind of friends they have. Ever heard of guilt by association or "birds of a feather flock together"? 



> Isn't it considered _shallow_ to judge someone based on their looks anyway?


Well yes, I don't think anyone is arguing that it's awesome to judge someone based on what kind of dog they have or any other shallow reason. But if something important like someone's livelihood depends on others' perception of them, it hardly matters how shallow it is does it?


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

sassafras said:


> It does matter if the people doing the judging, judge people based on the kind of dog they have or the kind of friends they have. Ever heard of guilt by association or "birds of a feather flock together"?
> 
> Well yes, I don't think anyone is arguing that it's awesome to judge someone based on what kind of dog they have or any other shallow reason. But if something important like someone's livelihood depends on others' perception of them, it hardly matters how shallow it is does it?


Basing yee's livelihood on others perception of yee is the definition of shallowness... it also doesn't really make for a good type of person. 

To be fair I do think we're trying to argue different parts of the same side of the coin - judging is bad, and if you're going to be one of those judgmental shallow people, OK so an APBT isn't a good dog, but you shouldn't post it in a thread about "Fear of dogs", start your own thread about "This is why I don't like this breed"


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

missc89 said:


> Basing yee's livelihood on others perception of yee is the definition of shallowness... it also doesn't really make for a good type of person.


Why? Say I run an in-home daycare and parents start pulling their kids out after they see me walking a pit bull in town? I'm shallow because that matters to me? I need to make money until my mortgage company starts accepting love of pit bulls as currency, which I don't foresee happening any time soon.



> To be fair I do think we're trying to argue different parts of the same side of the coin - judging is bad, and if you're going to be one of those judgmental shallow people, OK so an APBT isn't a good dog, but you shouldn't post it in a thread about "Fear of dogs", start your own thread about "This is why I don't like this breed"


I don't think we're arguing the same thing at all. I'm saying that the poster everyone currently loves to hate, while s/he is being pretty crude about it, may be in circumstances that give him/her legitimate reasons for not wanting to be associated with certain kinds of dogs in the public's or potential customers/clients/whoever's minds. Because s/he is being antagonistic about the larger issue doesn't make it an invalid point.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

missc89 said:


> Basing yee's livelihood on others perception of yee is the definition of shallowness... it also doesn't really make for a good type of person.
> 
> To be fair I do think we're trying to argue different parts of the same side of the coin - judging is bad, and if you're going to be one of those judgmental shallow people, OK so an APBT isn't a good dog, but you shouldn't post it in a thread about "Fear of dogs", start your own thread about "This is why I don't like this breed"


One's livelihood is what they do for money. THEY can't base that on other people's perception of them---other people's perceptions determine whether they'll hire that person. It's not a choice the individual makes. If an employer thinks someone is a thug based on shallow reasons, one of which might be what kind of dog they own, there isn't much they can do about that except change/avoid those reasons. 

I think the discussion can belong in a thread about what breed someone is scared of. As in "I'm not scared of the breed but I am scared of people's perceptions of said breed", which is entirely legitimate. I'm just contrary enough to want to get a breed that other people are scared of, but then I'm fortunate to be in a demographic in which my livelihood is unlikely to be affected by my choice in pets. So I don't know what I would do if my choice in pets affected other people's perception of me to the point of affecting my ability to make a living. That would stink and I would hate it. It also doesn't have anything to do with whether someone "likes" a breed or not. They can like the breed as much as anyone and still not feel that the breed is a good fit for them based on other people's perceptions.

ETA: what sassafras said . She made the point better than I did


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Willowy said:


> One's livelihood is what they do for money. THEY can't base that on other people's perception of them---other people's perceptions determine whether they'll hire that person. It's not a choice the individual makes. If an employer thinks someone is a thug based on shallow reasons, one of which might be what kind of dog they own, there isn't much they can do about that except change/avoid those reasons.


^^^^^
I agree with you 100%, but the poster did make it seem a bit... I would almost go as far as to say "personal" with a lot of people on this website because of a snap judgment and I think that's why peoples feathers are in a ruffle. 

_I_ had to re-read what you and Sassafras said (hard to get it the first time when you're slightly angry lol) and you're both right in your own ways for sure.


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