# Should breeder have told us about underbite?



## flycaster (Jan 29, 2016)

When getting a puppy (not show quality) from a quality breeder, should the breeder tell you about the puppy's underbite before hand? We contracted for a puppy sight unseen (other than some pictures) and didn't get to see the puppy until she was ready for purchase (post-weening). At that time we didn't notice the underbite, nor did the breeder tell us about it. We love the puppy and she is beautiful and doing quite well, but in the back of our minds is the thought that we should have been told about the underbite (which is quite noticeable now) before we came to get her.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Have you talked to the breeder about your concerns? The other thing is how old is the pup, and will the pup go through changes as it grows for it's breed. One of my GSD pups had an over bite.. the whole disqualify match stick space, when I first noticed it I was devastated, my mentor in the breed saw it and wasn't too concern given her age (11 wks) and felt she would grow into her bite. The pup did grow in to having a correct bite. Do hope your Breeder is open for communication.


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## flycaster (Jan 29, 2016)

PatriciafromCO said:


> Have you talked to the breeder about your concerns? The other thing is how old is the pup, and will the pup go through changes as it grows for it's breed. One of my GSD pups had an over bite.. the whole disqualify match stick space, when I first noticed it I was devastated, my mentor in the breed saw it and wasn't too concern given her age (11 wks) and felt she would grow into her bite. The pup did grow in to having a correct bite. Do hope your Breeder is open for communication.


The pup is now 5.5 months and the underbite is quite noticeable. We knew we weren't getting a show quality dog. But the question is: Should the breeder have told us about the underbite rather than letting us find out for ourselves. The underbite was pointed out by the vet during the first post-purchase visit (the next day). My thought is who would ever think of returning the pup (o any pup) after having it fo even a day. I'm sure the breeder knows this bit of psychology and may have be fearful of loosing a sale if she told us about the undrbite???


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

"Should" they have told you ? I don't know, but probably not. All dogs have faults, and if it's not a health concern then I see no reason to disclose every fault the dog has. Although personally, I believe it would have been the professional thing to do. 

It might be wise to talk to your vet to see if they think it will cause health issues during the dog's lifetime. Aside from that, I'm going to say 'no'.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

if the breeder knew about it, it would be the ethical thing to of told you about it to make a decision if you wanted to accept it or not. Puppies get returned to breeders all the time and ethical breeders want their puppies back if they are not in a home that is happy with them..


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

Yeah the big standout for me is that your breeder was already aware that you weren't buying a show quality dog. If you HAD been, then I'd say yes the breeder should have said something. But when buying a "pet quality" dog from a breeder, there is a tacit understanding that the dog is pet quality for a reason, whether that be for incorrect ears, bite, crank tail, or anything else out of breed standard. So in that case, it would have been a courtesy to say something but definitely not required/expected.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Makes for a good thread for people to ask why? why a puppy is pet quality and not show quality.


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## flycaster (Jan 29, 2016)

TGKvr said:


> Yeah the big standout for me is that your breeder was already aware that you weren't buying a show quality dog. If you HAD been, then I'd say yes the breeder should have said something. But when buying a "pet quality" dog from a breeder, there is a tacit understanding that the dog is pet quality for a reason, whether that be for incorrect ears, bite, crank tail, or anything else out of breed standard. So in that case, it would have been a courtesy to say something but definitely not required/expected.


Your response makes sense. Show quality vs pet quality, without any harmful physical problems in either case...which should definitely be pointed out. I was going to question my breeder on this, but I don't think I will as being discourteous is not necessarily being unethical (although in some cases it maybe.) To tell you the truth, if she was found to be unethical, I would have had no problem putting her behavior out there on the social media for all to see. We love our puppy and will get used to looking at her "funny mouth."


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

I was curious about how common underbites are in Havanese, so found a breed specific forum and did a quite search, and judging by the number of threads made by members asking about their dog's underbite, I'd say it's not at all uncommon. It's possible that the breeder just didn't think to tell you, as it seems to be a fairly common occurrence in pet quality Havanese.


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## StormyPeak (Mar 9, 2016)

flycaster said:


> ....Show quality vs pet quality, without any harmful physical problems in either case...which should definitely be pointed out. .....We love our puppy and will get used to looking at her "funny mouth."


As people mentioned, you got a pet quality pet, and the reason for that is, because the breeder (if it's one who is breeding for show quality dogs) must have seen some physical flaw that made them think it wouldn't be show quality.

Still, when paying for a pure bred dog, a person should expect any potential health issues to be pointed out, and maybe the breeder felt that this wasn't the case. It would be interesting if the pup had it's own set of vet records/history you could have just to see if the vet noted it. If not, then maybe the vet didn't think it was that big of a deal either. 

I have a purebred Golden Retriever, that I didn't pay anything but a small adoption fee for, and he was already 2 years old so it was easy to see that his head was deformed...plus he has some mental disabilities. He does have an overbite, but he seems ok with eating dry kibble. I have noticed though that when I give him a treat, like a piece of chicken or something, he tries to take it from the side of his mouth rather than directly from the front...he can't quite clamped down on some things from the front of his mouth. 

As far as looking at his 'funny mouth' I think it's kind of cute in a way...it goes along with the rest of his weird looking head. He's was never going to be a show dog so I don't give a hoot if he looks a little different from the standard Golden Retriever. 

I hope you might end up seeing your puppy's overbite in the same way...as one of the things that make her stand out a little from the breed standard, something uniquely her, and hopefully the overbite won't ever be so bad as to cause health issues.

A post on HaHa....scroll down to see some photos of his head....
http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/428834-haha-who-helped-me.html

Stormy


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

A bite can go off as they grow. Maybe the breeder didn't know there was an under bite or maybe there wasn't when the pup was little. Unless it is so severe that the bite is making it difficult to eat, then it is a non event. An under bite doesn't make a pet any less lovable. Sometimes, it adds character.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yes, you should have been notified. That's the right thing to do.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Are you convinced that the underbite was obvious when you got the pup? Bites can change a lot from 8 wks to 5.5 mo. May be that the breeder didn't notice because the bite looked fine at the time. Talk to the breeder. If the bite is bad enough to be a health issue, I'd say there's a case for some bickering. Otherwise . . . it's just one fairly minor fault. No worse than the wrong set on tail or ears or a bad topline.


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## flycaster (Jan 29, 2016)

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. As the responses seem to be divided between telling and not telling about the bite (as long as the bite is not a health issue) in a pet quality puppy and it is known that bite can be a "common" issue among the breed, I guess I'll just let sleeping dogs lie. Although, I must admit that still feel we should have been told. Nonetheless, the puppy is beautiful, affectionate, quite a character and my wife's newly found love, so who am I to complain? Except, I do wish that my wife would now acknowledge my existence (LOL).


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

FTR, other people ARE correct, the puppy may not have had an under bite when sold, or it may have been level. The jaws do grow at different rates, and not everything is noticeable. 

One of the boys from my first litter was cryptorchid (so I thought). I sold him at a discount to a family with full disclosure than while he had both testicles, only one was descended. It was so far up that I thought there was no hope it would drop. Lo and behold, testicle made it.

Boy puppies can yo yo their testicles when young, though, due to stress or temperature. Prospects can have testicles one day and then you ship them off and they suck those bad boys up. 

"YOU SOLD ME A SHOW DOG WITH NO BALLS!"

No. No no. Give it a few hours, or even a day or two...they will reappear.


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

:laugh: Xeph! That is kind of funny.


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## flycaster (Jan 29, 2016)

Xeph said:


> FTR, other people ARE correct, the puppy may not have had an under bite when sold, or it may have been level. The jaws do grow at different rates, and not everything is noticeable...


This was not the case for us. We took the dog to the vet the next day after purchase and he informed us about the underbite. But, of course, who returns a puppy after having it for one day??? I'm sure the breeder was counting on a no return and loss of sale when she gave us the dog.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

flycaster said:


> This was not the case for us. We took the dog to the vet the next day after purchase and he informed us about the underbite. But, of course, who returns a puppy after having it for one day??? I'm sure the breeder was counting on a no return and loss of sale when she gave us the dog.


Lots of people would contact the breeder... and return the pup, as well as the breeder take the pup back...


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## flycaster (Jan 29, 2016)

PatriciafromCO said:


> Lots of people would contact the breeder... and return the pup, as well as the breeder take the pup back...


Not in my wife's case. From day one, she fell in love with the pup. And, by day two when the underbite was noted, there was no way the pup was going back. And, yes, we did have three days to return the pup...if we wanted to.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

3 days? Responsible breeders will always take back a dog of their breeding, for the dog's entire life. Now, maybe 3 days with a full refund. . .but any breeder who won't take a dog back at any time is pretty irresponsible. 

I agree that once I had the pup in my possession, I wouldn't be able to return him/her. I can't imagine most pet homes would. I might contact the breeder though. Just to let them know.

Anyway, if you weren't looking for a show dog and the underbite doesn't cause trouble, I don't see the issue. It would have been nice for them to point it out, I suppose, but if it's common in the breed the breeder might not have even thought about it.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I'd expect a "pet" puppy (vs show prospect) to have minor faults and those minor faults would likely be the common ones to the breed-- which I would have researched prior to finding a breeder and getting a puppy. Unless I either specifically asked WHY the puppy selected for me was not a show prospect OR the fault is something with potential health/quality of life consequences, then no, I would not expect a breeder to point out the minor ways a pet puppy deviates from the show standard. 

As in, things like mismarked color, tail set, ear set, minor underbite, expected to be slightly too tall or too short for show standard and the like wouldn't even be a consideration for most pet homes so I'd expect the breeder to be focusing on matching the personality traits of the puppy to the needs and wants to the buyer and mainly discussing things like activity level, interest in toys etc.

Faults that I would expect to be pointed out would be something like a severe over or underbite, hearing problems, structural concerns, excessively shyness or nervousness and the like.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

My Brittany has an underbite. The breeders kept all four puppies for awhile because all had teeth/mouth issues (this was the mom's second litter, different male from the first. First litter was fine). By four months, they still had the issues so all were sold, cheaper, to pet homes. Ginger will be six in a couple weeks, still has the underbite which we find charming.

Yes, you should have been told.


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## rkj__ (Dec 15, 2015)

We put a deposit on a puppy from a litter. When it was time to pick our puppy, our breeder brought it to our attention that one of the puppies had an underbite. I appreciated them sharing that with us, especially since it was a mixed breed.


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## Mish (Aug 30, 2021)

flycaster said:


> Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. As the responses seem to be divided between telling and not telling about the bite (as long as the bite is not a health issue) in a pet quality puppy and it is known that bite can be a "common" issue among the breed, I guess I'll just let sleeping dogs lie. Although, I must admit that still feel we should have been told. Nonetheless, the puppy is beautiful, affectionate, quite a character and my wife's newly found love, so who am I to complain? Except, I do wish that my wife would now acknowledge my existence (LOL).


Would you still feel the same, ie, just let sleeping dogs lie, if you had paid $3000 for your dog? Same thing happened with our pup, and I am wondering what if anything I should do. I have already told the breeder, but she didn’t think it was an issue, but then again, she hasn’t paid the vet bills to get our puppy’s mouth checked.


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## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm afraid this thread is five years old, and the original poster hasn't been on this forum since a month after they posted this. I'm going to close this thread to further replies to avoid confusion - usually posts at the end of an old thread like this get lost easily. Please do start a new thread about your situation, though! That will make it easier for currently active members to find and offer advice.


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