# Coat Colors



## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Hope this hasn't been done before; I haven't seen it. But just wondering but what are your top ten favorite coat colors in a dog? 

Mine are:
White
Tan/White
Gold
Cream
Red/White
Black/White
Tricolor
Harlequin
Blue Merle
Brindle


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## K9Chaos (Jun 27, 2014)

I had to actually stop and think about this!

Fawn (with a black mask) 
Brindle
Red merle
Blue and white (like in english setters)
Blue/blue brindle domino (like in afghan hounds) 
Silver
Red
Harlequin
Tri-colour
Chocolate

So many interesting colours out there - was hard to choose! 

Bea


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Dark Red Brindle with/without a mask 
Grey
Black and Tan
Tri color
Tan Brindle
Sable
Mantle
Liver and white
Blue Roan and Tan
This ->


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I love Blue Merle but only in some breeds (collies and shelties, this may be because I love collies and shelties so much). 
I also love Harlequin in Danes or black and white in bullies/boston terriers. 

I think my all time favorite is red, like copper red. I am not a huge fan of red merle, just red. I love Remus's color in his summer coat, still love him in his winter coat but his red becomes more diluted by the buff under coat. I would love to have a red Scottish Deer hound. Probably will never happen though. 

Sometimes I see a color on a dog and think, wow that is stunning, even though I would not necessarily love the coat color on another breed.


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## socorny (Jun 24, 2014)

Preferred coat type-smooth
Colour- 
Solid Black
Solid Red (edit to add: redbone coonhound red, not liver)
Sable
Subtle Irish marking on red, blue, and sable
I LOVE the look of blue, but there are too many issues associated with the colour.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Dark black Agouti as in


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Hmmm ... 

Sable w/ Irish Spotting (think English shepherds)
Red/white (dark ee red)
Black tri
Black/white
Blue Merle (only some patterns)
Solid Black
Solid Red
Sable (think working line GSD sable)
Blue Roan (as in ECS or English setters)

Generally I like saturated colors, not dilutes like liver, and with some white spotting or other pattern, but not crazy pattern. Around 50/50 color vs white is good.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I don't know about 10 but I prefer:

Tricolor (black, tan, and white). Irish markings preferred with strong red tan and more color than white.
Dark shaded sable. Either Irish spotted or masked like a terv.
black and white with about half black and half white preferred
Red and white (like ee red, not liver) Black pigment and freckles

Merle is weird for me. I either love it or hate it. Some look way too busy and muddied. Nicely marked BLUE merle on a long coat with clean markings can be very nice. I dislike red merle. 

I strongly prefer long coats to short coats.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

K9Chaos said:


> So many interesting colours out there - was hard to choose!


I know! I thought I knew most colors, but turns out there were some I forgotten or didn't know. 

Chaos--is that a Dunker Dog?

Remaru--I know what you mean. There are some dogs that look great in blue merle coats and others are "eh". 

Keechak--you only did one! You have no others you like?

Laurelin--yeah 10 was hard to do, I was going to make it 5, but I accidentally went over my own "top five" list, so that's why I made it longer. 

Those are great everyone! Anyone else?


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

tan (like Kabota and Thud)
brown (like Tyson)
redish brown (like Chester)
tri-color (like Caeda, Kylie, and the Aussies on the right ^^^ )
GSD color (like Trent) (I know there are multiple colors and patterns, but I'm too lazy to look up the correct term)
black and tan (like Lars and Ocean)
Belgian Malinois color (is there a name for that?)

In some cases, it depends on the dog. For example, I love the red of Irish Setters but I'm not crazy about most red poodles.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Keechak--you only did one! You have no others you like?


I like pretty much all colors equally very few stand out to me as particularly beautiful, except that dark black agouti (Black Sable in GSDs)


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

blue merle, red merle, chocolate, bblue, isabella, any saddle tan, red like roxie, cream, black with or without white, extreme piebald with ticking, black and tan. no particular order but merle and black and tan aare at tthe top of the list i think


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

Red/White (or Copper), Blue Merle, Red Merle, Chocolate.... That's definitely my top 4.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Chaos--is that a Dunker Dog?


Yep that is a Dunker. 

Just a note: English Setters call their coat pattern Belton. Orange, Blue, Liver, Lemon, or Tri color (blue belton with tan marks).

Also I love Apricot on poodles.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Black and tan
black and white
pure black
brown brindle
pure white
brown brindle and white
tri color(black,tan and white)
sable
chocolate
dark blue/black merle/dapple/harleguin.(what you see in Mudi's,Beaucerons and some Aussies

I can like both short and long coats,but prefer to own short to medium length coats.


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## Katagaria (May 21, 2014)

Blue merle
Tricolour
Black
Sable
Blue
Bi blue
Brindle

I guess you could say I'm a blue fan lol!


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

White
Domino (in Finnish lapphunds) 
Black 
Tricolor 
A deep red
Blue merle
Anything with a white mask


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Brindle Merle









Agouti









Yellow









Bi Blue










Black Merle- Which is genetically blue merle, but is called black merle









Sable









Pure White









Red-Especially in Kelpies


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Blue merle, especially with blue eyes, brindles, red and rust in Dobermans, black and white, Bernese markings.


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## CrystalGSD (Jun 27, 2014)

Keechak said:


> Dark black Agouti as in


^Dark sables are my all time favorite
Any Sable color
Next is really dark blue merles with tan points... like http://www.gearhartaussies.com/images/Coronados_Exclusive_Sensation_248-web.jpg
Bicolor
Black Tricolor
Mantle
Extreme Piebald Black & White (Border Collies)
Brindle
Brindle Merle
Rich Red


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

reds...anything red. 

Tri...anything tri

patterns...ehh I LOVE patterns but I love very specific ones. for example I am not actually a fan of Blue Merle, but I find Paisley to be stunning.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Because Aussies(but in most other breeds too):
Blue Merle
Red Merle
Black-tri with the full white collar --

Red Tri

Others:
Brindle over light tan with a dark mask
Whatever the heck Siberian Huskies are considered (the silver/gray and white)
Pure black
Red - ACD
Mostly tan with white legs/chest and a dark black mask
The silvertan/black/white akita color

Yeah.. I don't know names very well. Sorry.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> reds...anything red.
> 
> Tri...anything tri
> 
> ...


I kinda feel you,regular blue or red merle doesn't do much for me but black merle,harleguin or merle with large black splotches,especially if on the face like your gorgeous dog I am drawn to.

I also have to admit mostly white merle can be pretty but I worry about lethal white(double merles) with them,even if it may not be the case with all.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Miss Bugs said:


> reds...anything red.


Me too! LOVE red dogs... a ginger thing maybe?

Other than that, some colours stand out more than some (especially merle and white) but I have seen absolutely striking dogs in most colours, and I find some colours look weird in some coats. For instance, lavender/lilac in a long coated dog is... weird. But I love dilute in short coated dogs.
Adorable:








Weird:


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> Me too! LOVE red dogs... a ginger thing maybe?
> 
> Other than that, some colours stand out more than some (especially merle and white) but I have seen absolutely striking dogs in most colours, and I find some colours look weird in some coats. For instance, lavender/lilac in a long coated dog is... weird. But I love dilute in short coated dogs.
> Adorable:
> ...


I love the first dog.


I really love the look of sliver huskies


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> I really love the look of sliver huskies


Yes, this was the husky thing I was speaking of! So beautiful!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

It's always odd having a coat color conversation with multiple people using different terms to mean the same color. Not complaining, it's just odd and kinda funny.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Jazzy--the black merle dog you showed, is that a Mudi?

ForTheLoveOfDogs--I didn't know that many names to the colors either, so I cheated and looked them up.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Keechak said:


> It's always odd having a coat color conversation with multiple people using different terms to mean the same color. Not complaining, it's just odd and kinda funny.


I've always found it interesting. Seeing how everyone else views colors,& what term they'll use. Especially, when the same color has a different term in the standard. For example,how a blue merle is called a black merle in Mudis.

ETA:


Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Jazzy--the black merle dog you showed, is that a Mudi?


Yes, it is. So is the dog with the yellow coat color.

I absolutely love Mudi's.I hope to own one. There gorgeous, I love there temperament, there size. But,oh god,the barking. I've heard its horrendous. Plus, you probably


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Hmmm... I am no expert on the names of different colors/patterns with dog coats but:

Lilac
Certain blues 
Sable
Tweed Australian Shepherds, gimmmeeeee
Heavily ticked tri color dogs
Any merle ever - blue, red, whatever I almost always love merle

The most common compliment Bennie gets is on her coat color, which is kind of interesting to me. I don't know much about dog genetics but to me it's a very muddy taupe-like blue?


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Keechak said:


> It's always odd having a coat color conversation with multiple people using different terms to mean the same color. Not complaining, it's just odd and kinda funny.


That's why I gave examples.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

I like black. I also like basically every bicolor and tricolor combination where the colors are crisply delineated and bright.

I love a fluffy black and silver dog.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Keechak said:


> It's always odd having a coat color conversation with multiple people using different terms to mean the same color. Not complaining, it's just odd and kinda funny.


Agreed! Or use the same word to mean different colors. There are a lot of different uses of "red", for example. Like a "red" border collie/aussie is genetically liver, but that term is more commonly used for gun dog breeds. An ee red border collie is called something else (golden? I forget).

I really like ee red as in Irish Setters and Welshies. I'm not a big fan of ee red with pink pigment as in Brittanies - I really prefer the black pigment.

I'm generally not a big fan of liver even when it's called "red" in herding breeds. Except GSPs for some reason - I love liver in GSPs especially with heavy ticking.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Keechak said:


> It's always odd having a coat color conversation with multiple people using different terms to mean the same color. Not complaining, it's just odd and kinda funny.


Yeah it must be weird. I was always into dog breeds, but never learned the terminology for coats. To me, tan was tan, not apricot. Or brown, not liver. So I'm playing catch-up. But it's fun playing catch-up with dogs. So bare with me. 
-----
Those are neat colors you two.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

ee red is called Australian red in BCs. Liver/chocolate is called 'red'.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Red, go figure
Black
Blue
Grey
Fawn
Black and White

I'm really not into tri-colors or merles. I don't think they're ugly or anything, but I prefer solid colors and solids with some white. There are some really beautiful tri-colors and merles here though!

It's funny I was actually research coat colors last night. I found *Black Phantom Poodles*. Omg! So pretty. I need one.

Also that silver husky is gorgeous.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

With deep red, I meant dogs like this: 









Podenco in the Spanish shelter I worked at. 

Don't know what that is, genetically. But when Paula (podenco above) stepped into the sun she was a glimmering red ruby, so pretty.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> ee red is called Australian red in BCs. Liver/chocolate is called 'red'.


Oh right, Australian red. The pictures I've seen tend to be on the golden retriever/yellow lab end of the spectrum. Do they come in darker red too?


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## Galathiel (Apr 11, 2012)

My favorite would have to be dark/black sable - GSDs. I also love the look of some of the akitas like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akita_(dog)#mediaviewer/File:American-akita.jpg . I think white dogs are beautiful but wouldn't want one because of the chore of keeping the face from becoming stained. Malamute gray/white I love as well.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

elrohwen said:


> Oh right, Australian red. The pictures I've seen tend to be on the golden retriever/yellow lab end of the spectrum. Do they come in darker red too?


I've seen a couple that were orangey and kind of in the Brittany spectrum. Haven't seen any that are irish setter colored though. Most are very cream/gold. I'm not a fan of that kind of color unless it's on a golden. And even then I prefer a real RED.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> I've seen a couple that were orangey and kind of in the Brittany spectrum. Haven't seen any that are irish setter colored though. Most are very cream/gold. I'm not a fan of that kind of color unless it's on a golden. And even then I prefer a real RED.


Yeah, even in Goldens I much prefer a more saturated color.

I've seen some clear (or mostly clear) sables (English shepherds, kooikers) that are lovely. I would choose that over a light ee red like a golden.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

I love parti-colors- black and white the most, red and white next. My Cookie is a fawn/white parti color Chi: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201447533772846&l=edee3d8e09

Brown, deep, dark, rich brown! (as in my Improper Coat PWD) you can see her here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1300510555430&l=a701c684da

I also have a white bichon and a fading brown poodle. 
My next favorite color would be silver (poodles) and blue (other breeds)

But one day I'll have a black/white parti something!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I love me a black and tan or black and brindle dog.
I like "white and (color)" (parti-color I guess) but with an extreme amount of white (like Pip). I don't really care for Irish spotting/mantled that much.
I am a fan of ticking (a la English setters)
I like solid brindles
Those brick red kelpies and koolies make me swoon
Fawn w/dark masks (like a Malinois or fawn Great Dane)


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Avie said:


> With deep red, I meant dogs like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That particular dog appears to be a liver based dark ee red.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Really? Thanks.  I like liver based dark recessive reds, then.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Avie said:


> Really? Thanks.  I like liver based dark recessive reds, then.


The liver part just effects the nose and eye rim pigment really. A black based down would have black or brown pigment (like Watson) while a liver based dog has pink pigment (like a Brittany).

What time of year was that picture taken? The eye rims are black, so I'm wondering if her liver nose is actually snow nose. It's common for recessive red dogs to have their black noses lighten to brown in the winter. If her nose is that color year round, then I agree she's probably liver based.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

is this a Harlequin or a Blue Merle


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

I've always found this color interesting. I think,but I'm not postive that it's considered 
a brindle with saddle markings.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

PatriciafromCO said:


> is this a Harlequin or a Blue Merle


It's merle, harlequin is white based with large patches of grey and black.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Tri, or black and white.

Who'd've guessed? ;-)


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> I've always found this color interesting. I think,but I'm not postive that it's considered
> a brindle with saddle markings.


It's black with brindle points. Just like black and tan, but the brindle gene turns the tan to brindle.

ETA: Is that a catahoula? Looks very much like one I know, though she has more black (the brindle points haven't spread as much)


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

double post


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> It's black with brindle points. Just like black and tan, but the brindle gene turns the tan to brindle.
> 
> ETA: Is that a catahoula? Looks very much like one I know, though she has more black (the brindle points haven't spread as much)


Thanks! I was debating bewteen brindle points,& brindle saddle markings . Which raises a question-How is determined if it's brindle points, or if it's brindle saddle markings?

I'm not sure if it's a Catahoula. The dog was listed as an "Terrier mix".

https://lostdogrescue.org/dogs/10688/rich


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> Thanks! I was debating bewteen brindle points,& brindle saddle markings . Which raises a question-How is determined if it's brindle points, or if it's brindle saddle markings?
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a Catahoula. The dog was listed as an "Terrier mix".
> 
> https://lostdogrescue.org/dogs/10688/rich


Yeah, I don't see terrier at all, though curs are commonly mistaken for pittie mixes.

Saddle and black and tan are basically the same thing. A dog with a saddle is one where the tan creeps significantly. In other dogs the tan doesn't creep at all. So it's a matter of degrees whether you call a dog saddled or black with tan points. In the case of the dog you posted I would say points, because the brindle hasn't crept up enough to really make a saddle pattern. A dog with a saddle pattern should not have a black head or chest.

Check out the bottom of this page: http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/tan.html


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

elrohwen said:


> The liver part just effects the nose and eye rim pigment really. A black based down would have black or brown pigment (like Watson) while a liver based dog has pink pigment (like a Brittany).
> 
> What time of year was that picture taken? The eye rims are black, so I'm wondering if her liver nose is actually snow nose. It's common for recessive red dogs to have their black noses lighten to brown in the winter. If her nose is that color year round, then I agree she's probably liver based.


Picture was taken in Spain in the middle of (a blisteringly hot) summer, though Spain doesn't really have actual conventional winters (it never gets below 20 degrees Celsius (68 Fahrenheit), at least, the region where I was) and I don't know if the color change takes place if it's basically the same season all year round. And she was only at the shelter for about a week, so I don't know if her nose was always like this.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

Hmm, had to think about this...

Red









Brindle









"Chocolate" 









Blue









Pure Black and Black and White but only on smooth/short coat dogs like Charlie.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I am easy to please. If the coat looks unique to me, I think it's gorgeous.
So the brindles, merles - that kind of thing.

I had no idea what brindle was until I was handed Toby.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

In no particular order..
Seal
Dark copper red, not sure what that's officially called, like this or like this
Light red
Fawn, light sand color
Fawn brindle with the brindle being very faint
Jet black huskies (as in face entirely black or with thin white stripe)
White with red ticking marks like this
Pure white
Pure white with a couple random splashes of color, particularly a butt splash
Can I cheat and say chimera/somatic mutation?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Sibe said:


> Dark copper red, not sure what that's officially called, like this or like this


Those are actually 2 different colors! The first is liver and the second is ee red.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

elrohwen said:


> The liver part just effects the nose and eye rim pigment really. A black based down would have black or brown pigment (like Watson) while a liver based dog has pink pigment (like a Brittany).
> 
> What time of year was that picture taken? The eye rims are black, so I'm wondering if her liver nose is actually snow nose. It's common for recessive red dogs to have their black noses lighten to brown in the winter. If her nose is that color year round, then I agree she's probably liver based.


The eye rims look brown to me lol, hard to say in pics.

Sibe-- the second pup you posted is just a merle with cool markings, not a somatic mutation.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> Those are actually 2 different colors! The first is liver and the second is ee red.


 Either way then lol. 



Kayota said:


> The eye rims look brown to me lol, hard to say in pics.
> 
> Sibe-- the second pup you posted is just a merle with cool markings, not a somatic mutation.


 Shows how much the internet (and I) know. Second pup came up when searching chimera.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Sibe said:


> In no particular order..
> Seal
> Dark copper red, not sure what that's officially called, like this or like this
> Light red
> ...


Somatic Mutations can make for some neat looking dogs.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

i once read about a golden retriever with a black somatic mutation on his scrotum who only threw black pups.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Kayota said:


> The eye rims look brown to me lol, hard to say in pics.


It's hard to say, but typically liver based reds have pink eye rims, not brown or black which is what made me think the dog might be black based. Look up some pics of viszla and brittanies to see what I mean about the pink rims. The nose is definitely lighter than you would see on a black based dog, but again I would expect it to be more pink than brown. So I dunno.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I love blues, sable, and black the most. The only time I get obsessed with patterns is when it comes to my Rough Collies. They must have perfect markings and a full collar ... or I am not interested.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

elrohwen said:


> It's hard to say, but typically liver based reds have pink eye rims, not brown or black which is what made me think the dog might be black based. Look up some pics of viszla and brittanies to see what I mean about the pink rims. The nose is definitely lighter than you would see on a black based dog, but again I would expect it to be more pink than brown. So I dunno.


i have seen a lot of liver based reds with brown pigment... i think its mostly in certain breeds that its pink. my mom had a liver based red dachshund with brown pigment.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Kayota said:


> i have seen a lot of liver based reds with brown pigment... i think its mostly in certain breeds that its pink. my mom had a liver based red dachshund with brown pigment.


Interesting. I've only seen pink eye rims (though I've seen noses that were brown and not pink)


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't have a top 10. I love dapples. Hamilton's sister was a dapple and I wanted her so bad for the cuteness factor but he had the best temperament, so he got to come home with us! Personality will always win for me.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

What does the "ee" mean? Like some of you say ee red. 

Sure Sibe, you can cheat.  I've never seen a black husky before, it was neat looking. 

Chaos--in my dog book there's a dog called a Harlequin Pinscher. But the drawing they show is this: http://www.puppyfind.com/breed/harlequin_pinscher/l_323c46szl9.jpg If that color is merle as you said about the Schnauzer, why draw a dog that's coat isn't a harlequin? 

Jazzy--that b/w dog you showed, what breed is that? It's a pretty dog.

It's fun to see what everyone's preference is. Keep it coming guys!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

"ee" describes the genetics. E is dominant and allows the coat to display black pigment. e is recessive and blocks black pigment, making the coat "red" (or anywhere on the spectrum of cream to deep red, which is controlled by another gene). ee red hides other colors, so the dog could genetically be any number of colors, but will just appear red if its genetics are ee. 

As some of us were discussing above, it's common to use the term "red" to refer to dogs who are actually genetically brown/liver, so saying "ee red" is how we refer to the true red or a golden retriever or irish setter that comes from the recessive e gene.

This site explains color genetics really well: http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/masks.html


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

I love all red. It may be liver too, but I'm not good at telling the difference.

I love Watson's colours, Ryker's colours, love red merle, and LOVE red ACD's!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

d_ray said:


> I love all red. It may be liver too, but I'm not good at telling the difference.
> 
> I love Watson's colours, Ryker's colours, love red merle, and LOVE red ACD's!


Watson and Ryker are ee red. Red merle is liver.  Generally "red" dogs in the gun dog group are ee, since that gene is present in a lot of gun dog breeds. There are lots of liver gun dogs as well and they tend to be a very brown shade of liver that's obviously different (think of "orange" and liver brittanies - very different colors). Typically "red" herding dogs are actually liver (Aussies, border collies, kelpies) though there are probably exceptions. Sable is also common in herding breeds and a clear sable can look very much like ee red (there are often a few black hairs that give it away_

I'm actually not sure about ACDs. I'm reading up on it now. Apparently the e gene exists in the breed, but it sounds like "red" ACDs are not ee red but sable, and ee red is undesirable. http://crestviewcable.com/~lakota/genetics.html


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Jazzy--that b/w dog you showed, what breed is that? It's a pretty dog.


Which one are you talking about?


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> Watson and Ryker are ee red. Red merle is liver.  Generally "red" dogs in the gun dog group are ee, since that gene is present in a lot of gun dog breeds. There are lots of liver gun dogs as well and they tend to be a very brown shade of liver that's obviously different (think of "orange" and liver brittanies - very different colors). Typically "red" herding dogs are actually liver (Aussies, border collies, kelpies) though there are probably exceptions. Sable is also common in herding breeds and a clear sable can look very much like ee red (there are often a few black hairs that give it away_
> 
> I'm actually not sure about ACDs. I'm reading up on it now. Apparently the e gene exists in the breed, but it sounds like "red" ACDs are not ee red but sable, and ee red is undesirable. http://crestviewcable.com/~lakota/genetics.html


Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Are Vizslas ee too? I love their colouring!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

d_ray said:


> Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Are Vizslas ee too? I love their colouring!


Yes, I believe they are.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

elrohwen--thank you for the website, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the genes! I do have a few questions, they say there's a black mask on the Akita. But I see a white muzzle with a black liner down his face? So where's the black mask come in? And the blue mask on the Whippet? Again I'm seeing just white till it hits near the back of his mouth.

Jazzy--the picture of the b/w dog after the picture of the Golden with the black on his muzzle. That dog.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> Somatic Mutations can make for some neat looking dogs.


It's a Labrador 

You can more here 
http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/oddities.html


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> It's a Labrador
> 
> You can more here
> http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/oddities.html


If there was a smilie with the mouth just dropping I'd use it. A Lab...wow. Thanks for the link, I e-mailed the whole site to myself to read later.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> If there was a smilie with the mouth just dropping I'd use it. A Lab...wow. Thanks for the link, I e-mailed the whole site to myself to read later.


:jaw: There you go.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> elrohwen--thank you for the website, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the genes! I do have a few questions, they say there's a black mask on the Akita. But I see a white muzzle with a black liner down his face? So where's the black mask come in? And the blue mask on the Whippet? Again I'm seeing just white till it hits near the back of his mouth.
> 
> Jazzy--the picture of the b/w dog after the picture of the Golden with the black on his muzzle. That dog.


The presence of the mask is independent of white markings. If those dogs were solid colored they would have full masks but the white markings cover them up a bit. You can see just the edge of the mask where the white ends. If the white extended over most of the face you might not be able to see a mask at all but it could still be there genetically.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

*A bit about the "Reds"*

These dogs are* "ee"* Red(another gene will control how dark or light the red coat becomes but genetically these three dogs are all the same color and if you bred any of these three dogs with each other all the puppies would be the same color)



























These dogs are *"bb"* Red (breeding any of these three dogs together will ONLY produce puppies the same color as these dogs)


























These dogs are* "ayay"* Red 

























*And if you were to breed one of the first "ee" Red dogs to one of the "bb" red dogs you would get black puppies.*


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Summer is one of those fake red dogs. She's a sable though.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Keechak said:


> *
> And if you were to breed one of the first "ee" Red dogs to one of the "bb" red dogs you would get black puppies.*


*

For certain? What if both parents were also kk (or kbr/kbr)?

Genetics is cool.*


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## minireb123 (Apr 17, 2014)

For me it has to be red merle (I see too many blue merles around) for any dog. Blue/gray is also a favorite color of mine especially with patches of white and I just really like this dog's coat color a LOT:










I know he's just black but it's such a dark gorgeous black!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

gingerkid said:


> For certain? What if both parents were also kk (or kbr/kbr)?
> 
> Genetics is cool.


I was just keeping things simple for discussions sake but yes if it is kk it could also show anything that is on the "A" series (or brindle) including the "ayay" dogs. But in general those would all produce black pigment that the parents don't have.

In particular the Golden and the Labs are most likely to produce solid black puppies as they are almost always KK or Kk. The Irish setter on the other hand is probably Kk or kk simply due to the knowledge we have on other closely related breeds.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> elrohwen--thank you for the website, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the genes! I do have a few questions, they say there's a black mask on the Akita. But I see a white muzzle with a black liner down his face? So where's the black mask come in? And the blue mask on the Whippet? Again I'm seeing just white till it hits near the back of his mouth.
> 
> Jazzy--the picture of the b/w dog after the picture of the Golden with the black on his muzzle. That dog.


The irish white markings are dominant to the black mask so if the dog has irish white over it's face it will cover up part of the mask but if you could imagine peeling away the white layer the muzzle would be black under there.

Black masks (also called E-masks) are common in many breeds including Aussies, Hawkeye has a black E-mask but between his white muzzle and the fact that the rest of his coat is also black it makes it very hard to see unless you really know what to look for, in his case he has the majority of the tan points on his face covered up.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

there is also a possibility that you could get chocolates if one of the ee red dogs carried for liver.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

This is so interesting to learn and slightly confusing. To look at Hawkeye and say he's got a black muzzle when it looks white, but I'm slowly starting to get all this. And I can't believe two reds would have a black litter of pups or that a Golden is considered red. Thanks for all this helpful and insightful info elrohwen and keechak!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> This is so interesting to learn and slightly confusing. To look at Hawkeye and say he's got a black muzzle when it looks white, but I'm slowly starting to get all this. And I can't believe two reds would have a black litter of pups or that a Golden is considered red. Thanks for all this helpful and insightful info elrohwen and keechak!


I tried to choose profiles that have minimal white on the face to show the e-masks

Hawkeye and his half brother Smoke both have E-masks (notice how barely any tan is visible on the muzzle and the tan points over the eyes are dim)


















Lark and her father Ty, neither of them have E-masks, tan points are bright and clear.


















And if you look at this photo you can see the tan in Hawkeye's throat slowly turning to black as it goes closer to the muzzle because the mask is masking it, but the white markings cover BOTH the black and the tan.


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## Paviche (Aug 26, 2011)

I love these threads because I get to look up and post pictures of pretty dogs 

I'm a big, big fan of "red" dogs - that is, all varieties of red/liver/chocolate/orange/etc that lack black pigmentation.

Brittanys:










Aussies (strongly prefer rich pigment, not washed out reds):










Tollers:










Dobermans:










etc, etc. I strongly prefer markings, preferably piebald or irish white, over solid (like Vizslas and chocolate Labs.) I don't *dislike* solids, I just very much prefer to have markings. 

I'm really starting to like red and black on GSDs:










I like bright, rich brindles:










Idk, I like a lot of different colors/patterns across breeds. My faves are definitely red/liver nosed dogs, though  (as you can see by my sig... haha.)


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Keechak said:


> I tried to choose profiles that have minimal white on the face to show the e-masks


Oh the pictures help; I only said it was confusing cause I'm just learning. When I was younger it was just learn as many different breeds as I can, whatever else was secondary. Now I find everything is on a first basics! I can see everything you're describing in the pictures and your and the other Aussies are gorgeous. 

I so have to switch my mind now, lol. The GSD you showed Paviche looks tan/black to me, but really it's red/black. The pictures you showed are nice especially the brindle Saluki.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Random question: So, in my area, we have quite a few ACDs. They're not as common as labs, goldens or BCs, but they're hardly rare. But, I have noticed that just about every ACD I've seen has been a blue and not a red - the only place I've seen reds was at the dog show a few months ago. Is that just the preference in my area or if is solely a result of coat genetics causing reds to be less common?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I've seen more "blue" ACDs overall (if you didn't know they're actually extreme piebald black and tan with roaning/heavy ticking which is why they have a higher incidence of deafness like Dalmatians do) so I think it's just the preferred color in the breed.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

I love Blue Merle's that have blanketing like this.


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

I love black and brown merles and brindle,if we are talking dachshunds.
But I love black& tan,black& white in bully breeds.
Hard to say actually,it depends on breed.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Jazzy--that picture is pretty cool! 

Gingerkid--I'm not sure, maybe people prefer the blues to the reds more. When I went to the dog show in February, there were more blue heelers than reds.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

In looking up the genetics for red ACDs the one site did mention that they are much less common then blues but didn't say why. I imagine the gene is just not very common and people don't choose to breed for color so you get more blues.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> In looking up the genetics for red ACDs the one site did mention that they are much less common then blues but didn't say why. I imagine the gene is just not very common and people don't choose to breed for color so you get more blues.


Yeah... I was wondering if it had to with Black being dominant, and red requiring ee, which would make it less common to start with, regardless of the presence of ticking.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

gingerkid said:


> Yeah... I was wondering if it had to with Black being dominant, and red requiring ee, which would make it less common to start with, regardless of the presence of ticking.


Red ACDs are sable (from what I can tell from the interwebs). It seems that they are definitely not ee red and that ee red is present occasionally but not desireable at all.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

random interesting fact i forgot to post earlier-- roxie is actually a clear sable  i thought she was ee red but it took me a couple years to realize she has tiny black hairs on her ears lol! She also gets the occasional random black hair in her moustache or back fur.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Bump. What is THIS color?! So gorgeous. [Source, with lots more beautiful photos of beautiful dogs ]


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

i have seen several greys with that pattern. i beliece its a mystery gene currently according to what i have seen.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Blue Merle
Bi Blue
Black
Red Merle- I am extremely picky about these
Brindle
Dark Sable
Red Tri
Black Tri
Red and rust on a Doberman
ee red


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Sibe said:


> Bump. What is THIS color?! So gorgeous. [Source, with lots more beautiful photos of beautiful dogs ]


I believe it's called reverse ticking,not sure if that's a legit term or not though.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Sibe said:


> Bump. What is THIS color?! So gorgeous. [Source, with lots more beautiful photos of beautiful dogs ]


According to Dog Coat Colour Genetics: 

_"I have not seen this phenomenon in any other breeds but it appears to occur fairly frequently in black Greyhounds. There are small white spots on the coat, almost like ticking in reverse. These dogs look like they have been sprinkled with snow. It is not clear whether this is caused by some form of greying, vitiligo, or whether it is actually a colour gene. Vitiligo is unlikely as this is usually concentrated around the face and not in small spots all over the body."_


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Really neat. Thanks!


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Cream Saluki(?)









Blue Chow









Light dead grass 









What would this color be considered?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

the last dog appears to e a deep red tan pointed dog with brindling in the points.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Kayota said:


> the last dog appears to e a deep red tan pointed dog with brindling in the points.


Thanks! I'm horrible with coat colors.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

i am a huge geek for coat color genetics lol


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