# Just about to put down a deposit...



## pdac1975 (Oct 21, 2010)

Well, my wife and I are just about to put a deposit down on a baby boy English Bulldog. We weren't planning on doing anything before the holidays but the stars must have been aligned. We have been wanting a Bulldog puppy for a while now and are fully aware of the care that they need. We had always been wanting to have a puppy named Jake and I just happened to be looking at breeders today and came across one that just had a new litter two days ago and one of the boys was named Jake. Well, my wife just assumed it was fate and we were sold. We kind of jumped into it since these dogs seem to go so fast. I don't know much about the breeder but both my wife and I spoke with the lady there and she seemed very knowledgable and invited us to visit Jake anytime between now and when he comes home. The name of the breeder is Pebble Creek Bullies in NC in case anyone knows anything. Anyway, thanks to everyone for their help. Hopefully nothing falls through between now and then.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I just looked at the site, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to buy from them. Some of the stuff on there is iffy. I can go into more detail if you like... but have you already put down your deposit? I see on the site that they say:



> If you have paid a deposit and decide you don't want the puppy,or cannot have
> one, whatever the reason you come up with,you will still forfeit your deposit.
> By placing a deposit, you agree and understand these terms. By placing a
> deposit on any puppy you are entering a legal agreement to purchase that pup.
> ...


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## pdac1975 (Oct 21, 2010)

No we have not yet. I'd be happy to hear more opinions. That's why I posted here! Thanks!


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

Went to their website. Did you ask the breeder what health testing was done on the parents? I'm guessing by their site, none. "Champion bloodlines" means pretty much nothing... do they show? (no). Are any of their personal dogs titled in 'anything at all' but mostly breed titled? (no) I realize you will probably say that you are only looking for a pet, but the thing is, Bulldogs are one of the breeds it is MOST important to be sure to get puppies from responsible breeders due to an amazingly long list of hereditary problems such as vonWillibrand's disease just to name one. Proper pre-breeding testing of the parents does not guarantee a perfectly healthy puppy... nothing can really do that... BUT it greatly, GREATLY reduces the odds of bringing home a puppy you will grow to love and will become a part of your family, and then develop heart breaking health problems, and maybe die far too soon.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> I just looked at the site, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to buy from them. Some of the stuff on there is iffy. I can go into more detail if you like... but have you already put down your deposit? I see on the site that they say:


I didn't read the site yet, but this means nothing to me. Most breeders require a non-refundable deposit. To make sure they can place pups.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

First, it's good that all of their dogs are AKC registered and come from "champion bloodlines," but none of them are titled, which normally gives me pause -- how can the breeder be sure these are quality representatives of the breed if they don't do any showing themselves? Just because a dog's parents are champions doesn't mean that every pup they produce will be breeding quality -- this breeder's dogs should be proven, like their parents were.

Second, they charge different prices for different colors, which is normally a bad sign. There are preferred colors in the ring, but for pet-quality dogs, color should not affect price at _all_.

Third, they don't mention any health testing on the breeding dogs. (This doesn't mean they don't do any, but you should definitely ask.) Bulldogs need to be tested for hips, I believe, and I'd imagine a number of other genetic issues (I'll go look this up).

Fourth, do you know if they breed completely in-house (that is, they only use their own dogs for breeding and breed the same pairs together multiple times)? Good breeders don't do many repeat breedings; they also bring in other breeders' lines in an effort to pair the best two dogs together that they can in order to produce puppies that are, hopefully, even better than either parent. 

I also don't like their "once you give us a deposit, you can't back out for any reason, or we keep your money" policy, or their "health guarantee:"



> [If] the puppy is found to be unhealthy, we will refund or apply that to another
> puppy if available.


Veeeeery non-specific. A good breeder's health guarantee will specify a time period (usually two or three years) during which they guarantee the puppy will be free of [insert breed-specific genetic conditions] and give specific details about how they will compensate you if your pup is found to be unhealthy. I can copy my papillon's for you if you like, to show you what a good health guarantee looks like.

That's what I got from a quick look at the site. Hopefully people here who know more about bulldogs can offer more insight. 



DJEtzel said:


> I didn't read the site yet, but this means nothing to me. Most breeders require a non-refundable deposit. To make sure they can place pups.


I suggest you take a look at the site, and _then_ come back and post.  Also, I wasn't necessarily saying that the policy itself was a red flag (although I don't like it -- I mean, sometimes people have a good reason for canceling a puppy purchase). I was asking if he had already put down a deposit, in which case it wouldn't be much use for me to type out all this advice because he'd probably not want to cancel on the pup and be out $300-$400.


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## pdac1975 (Oct 21, 2010)

This is all very good information. Thank you. I'm very new to this and was content to see that the puppy was AKC registered. We have asked for more information on the parents of the dog. Keep the thoughts coming please!


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

I'd also SERIOUSLY question the accuracy (truth) to those pedigrees posted because they are simply typed in forms NOT copies of official registration documents. I would imagine they really are AKC registered, but I'd honestly be surprised if they had as many real champions in their backgrounds.... again, however, it really doesn't mean anything if they do. However, if they don't, it does mean something, the breeder is openly dishonest.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

You definitely need to go beyond "AKC registered." All that means is that both of a pup's parents are purebreds. It doesn't mean they're quality dogs, or healthy, or from a good breeder. Puppy mills can (and do) AKC register their dogs.


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## pdac1975 (Oct 21, 2010)

In order to ascertain the validity of the bloodline, what information should I request from the breeder? Thanks again! I've been emailing with her and she has been very responsive.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Ask her what health tests she has done on her breeding dogs. That is going to be the biggest thing right there. Also ask her for her breeding dogs' registered names. You should be able to look them up in this database to make sure the proper tests have been done and see the scores.

(If she says "my vet looked at both parents and said they're healthy," RUN SCREAMING in the other direction. )


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

Ask to see copies of the actual AKC registration papers of both parents. That won't be as detailed as what they have listed, but will tell you if the champion sired comments on both parents is true. Better if she has an actual akc pedigree on the parents, but that costs money now, even for a three-generation one. She 'should' but regardless... just the registration of the parents would be a big head start. She can just scan them in and send you a copy via email.. or take a picture of them and send you the pictures.... don't let her hedge. Anyone can take a picture nowadays. If she says she can't, say okay, get copies and send them to me postal mail, it will delay your final decision a bit, but that's okay too... no need to rush, they're very young puppies who really shouldn't even being placed just yet. (Which is another reason I'm betting she isn't a reputable breeder).

Actually, now that I think about it, ask her the registered names and I am sure someone on here can tell you how or look them up on the akc database for you to see what their background is. I don't remember how to do it, but I do know you can.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm suspicious of the fact that none of her breeding dogs have registered names. It's just "Casper" or "Priscilla." If they're truly AKC registered, then they will have a registered name like their parents do ("Unforgetabull Trojan Ajax," for example), and that should be on the pedigree. It's not, which is odd. Honestly, this breeder seems very iffy, and I would not buy from them. English bulldogs can have a _lot_ of health issues and it's very, very important to buy from a really good breeder.


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

Sorry for the multiple posts, I'm just laughing a bit here because I went back to check, she filled in those 'pedigrees' all official names and titles, but the name of the actual dog on top is just a 'call name'... why not put the full registered name on there too? Unless those ARE their full registered names (lord have mercy).

Cran, we posted pretty much the same thing at the same time. LOL


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## pdac1975 (Oct 21, 2010)

Wow this is great information. I've sent an email asking the following:

What kind of health tests are done on your breeding dogs?

What type of paperwork will we receive when we pick up the dog?

Can you possibly provide us give us the registered names of the breeding dogs?

Also, the dog would stay with the breeder for another two months. After we pick it up, we take to a vet to verify the health of the dog and only then do we send in the rest of the payment. This seemed fair to me.

Thanks for all the help. I'd be lost without this forum.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm glad you're asking questions (of us and of the breeder). Let us know what she says! 

While you're waiting to hear back, this page appears to have some good information on choosing a bulldog breeder.


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

pdac1975 said:


> Also, the dog would stay with the breeder for another two months. After we pick it up, we take to a vet to verify the health of the dog and only then do we send in the rest of the payment. This seemed fair to me.


See, that's how BYB'S and mills get you. It 'sounds' like they are really being reasonable. Certainly that is a bit of a different step, if they really do that. They 'don't' take checks, but they DO allow you to take the dog off premisis without final payment... hum, pretty interesting, and... I'm thinking not the real truth, but regardless. IF they do that, all it says is the dog appears immediately healthy. A lot of things do not show up for several weeks... parvo for instance, which is not a hereditary thing, but a very common health problem in 'certain' situations. It is absolutely useless in regard to hereditary problems of the most types, which usually can't be tested for for months or even a year or so, however, it will help make sure the dog doesn't have a cleft palette (a big problem in bullies), or other immediate birth defects.

I second Crantastic's comment and bravo to you. Whatever you decide, you are asking questions and going into things with eyes wide open, and genuinely want to know what's a good deal and what's not.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

Health testing is more than just a wellness check up and all their shots. You want to be verrrry careful with this breed and breeder because bulldogs are prone to a number of illnesses and problems like allergies, breathing problems and a hoard of other things if they are badly bred.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

Personally, I would get in touch with a local breed club in your area if there is one and also check to see if there are any bulldog specific forums that you can either join or lurk on. Become knowledgeable regarding the health issues of bulldogs and what tests are recommended. Check on line to see if there is a bulldog health website. Do your homework and don't fall in love with a puppy without checking on health records of the parents and grandparents. Insist on seeing the actual certificates if possible. I wouldn't put down a deposit on any puppy without a thorough check of the breeder. My breed, Cavaliers, like bulldogs, have serious health issues. We always say select the breeder, not the puppy. Do the bulldog breed a favor and only choose a health focused breeder and be prepared to pay the bucks. If this is not something you are willing to do, then look to breed rescues and home a dog that is already here.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Where in North Carolina is this? Because if its anywhere relatively close to me..Ill go check them out in person if you want.


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

So Cavalier said:


> Personally, I would get in touch with a local breed club in your area if there is one and also check to see if there are any bulldog specific forums that you can either join or lurk on. Become knowledgeable regarding the health issues of bulldogs and what tests are recommended. Check on line to see if there is a bulldog health website. Do your homework and don't fall in love with a puppy without checking on health records of the parents and grandparents. Insist on seeing the actual certificates if possible. I wouldn't put down a deposit on any puppy without a thorough check of the breeder. My breed, Cavaliers, like bulldogs, have serious health issues. We always say select the breeder, not the puppy. Do the bulldog breed a favor and only choose a health focused breeder and be prepared to pay the bucks. If this is not something you are willing to do, then look to breed rescues and home a dog that is already here.


+1 on this.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Personally, I'd run away from these people and never look back. They're selling puppies of the merits of the dogs BEHIND their dogs, not off the merits of their dogs.

They don't seem to have any sort of structural knowledge about the breed, and their questionnaire is laughable.

Ask them about pretty much everything on this list:
http://www.engbulldogs.com/bulldog health.htm


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Where in North Carolina is this? Because if its anywhere relatively close to me..Ill go check them out in person if you want.


OP, take zim up on this! You learn so much more about a breeder by seeing them and their dogs in person, and zim knows a lot about this stuff.

(They say "Western North Carolina," but nothing more specific.)


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## pdac1975 (Oct 21, 2010)

Wow this is an impressive amount of information in a very short time!

Here's what i got back from the breeder:

All of our breeding dogs are vet checked on a regular basis. When you pick him up you will receive his AKC papers, shot and worming records. Also you will receive the copy of the vet check and a small bag of puppy food. 
The registered names are Lowes Molly of Rockytop Braveheart. (mom) and dad is Rogers Mountainveiw Bubba. The grandpa of Jake is Ch. Scruggabull Rockytop from the movie "Leatherheads" 

Seems legit so far but I suppose that until I see the paperwork, you don't know if it's legit.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> All of our breeding dogs are vet checked on a regular basis.


That means nothing. Ask for proof of x-rays. The Bulldog is #1 on the list for Hip Dysplasia (and they have a host of other health issues)!


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> All of our breeding dogs are vet checked on a regular basis.


Not good enough. I say, keep you deposit and look elsewhere. They should be willing to tell you what they test for and the results for both parents and grandparents. I know it is easy to get excited and caught up in the moment. But with a breed like bulldogs, you really need to think about the health of the breed and support those breeders who are willing to go that extra and NECESSARY step. You may be sorry later when your puppy gets sick and ends up costing lots of money in vet bills and unnecessary heartache when you have to put a sick puppy down. No one can guarantee a healthy puppy but you tip the odds in your favor when you go with a truly health focused breeder.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah, run, don't walk, away from this breeder. It's pretty obvious she doesn't health test her dogs at all. "Vet checked" means absolutely nothing. You can take any dog to the vet and find out it's healthy at the time. General vets don't test hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid... they don't test for Von Willebrand's disease or most of the other things on that list Xeph linked. With a breed like this, it's doubly important that you go to a VERY good breeder who does all the right health tests (and can prove it -- their dogs will be listed here).


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

Put on your sneakers and RUN


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## pdac1975 (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks everybody. Sounds like we definitely need to ask some more questions. All the insight is much appreciated!


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## SchnauzerLove (Jul 7, 2010)

I would run away from this, who knows maybe they are legit, but I wouldnt risk it, they are much better options out there, if you still want this puppy or want to check for yourself (we usually dont believe it until we see it) go visit the property in person with your wife and ask everything you need to know, if this is an honest breeder interested in impproving the breed (not just selling pupppies) then they WILL know EVERYTHING about the breed.

Also avoid things like http://www.english-bulldogs-r-us.com/. CKC usually means the puppies come from a puppy mill.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

SchnauzerLove said:


> I would run away from this, who knows maybe they are legit


They're not. If you ask someone what health tests they do on their breeding dogs and they say, "Oh, my vet checks them regularly and says they're healthy," that's such a huge red flag that you don't even need to ask any other questions. This is especially true in a breed like this with a _lot_ of health issues. We've also found many other things wrong with this breeder. I wouldn't bother asking her a single other question; I'd be out of there. OP, I know you and your wife are happy to spend the money for a healthy, well-bred pup -- please wait a bit longer, as you'd originally planned, and get one from a reputable breeder who health tests the parents and will provide you with a good health guarantee on the puppy. Try contacting the Bulldog Club of America for breeder referrals.


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## SchnauzerLove (Jul 7, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> They're not. If you ask someone what health tests they do on their breeding dogs and they say, "Oh, my vet checks them regularly and says they're healthy," that's such a huge red flag that you don't even need to ask any other questions. This is especially true in a breed like this with a _lot_ of health issues. We've also found many other things wrong with this breeder. I wouldn't bother asking her a single other question; I'd be out of there. OP, I know you and your wife are happy to spend the money for a healthy, well-bred pup -- please wait a bit longer, as you'd originally planned, and get one from a reputable breeder who health tests the parents and will provide you with a good health guarantee on the puppy. Try contacting the Bulldog Club of America for breeder referrals.


I know all of that, maybe my English wasnt clear enough since its not my first language, as I said before i would run away from this breeder, but if he still wants to check for himself then he should go and NEVER make a deposit without seeing the puppy in person (thats what I said) I didnt and would not recommend anyone from getting a puppy from this breeder, I think its obvious that they are just there for the money.


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## Pynzie (Jan 15, 2010)

I love seeing people that ask questions BEFORE they act, and then actually LISTEN to the advice given. I really like this guy! 

Great advice everyone! Run run run as fast as you can, pdac. You'll find your well bred bulldog pup soon enough.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

SchnauzerLove said:


> I know all of that, maybe my English wasnt clear enough since its not my first language, as I said before i would run away from this breeder, but if he still wants to check for himself then he should go and NEVER make a deposit without seeing the puppy in person (thats what I said) I didnt and would not recommend anyone from getting a puppy from this breeder, I think its obvious that they are just there for the money.


Guh, good luck placing a deposit after the pups are whelped.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

You know, I didn't have to put a deposit down until I had been offered an actual, specific puppy. I was on a waiting list, I was offered a puppy, the breeder chose which puppy I was getting when he was nine weeks old, and then I paid. Not all breeders require a non-refundable deposit before you're even offered a pup. In fact, I had no problem getting on the waiting lists of seven reputable AKK breeders who didn't require a cent; I had the luxury of avoiding the few who wanted several hundred non-refundable dollars for the privilege of going on their long waiting lists.

Anyway, in _this situation_, this breeder only seems to take deposits on specific puppies ("We require a $300-$400 deposit to hold a puppy, depending on price of puppy" -- remember, they charge different prices for different colors, so you don't know how much to put down until you pick your puppy). They don't seem to take deposits on unborn litters at all. SchnauzerLove's advice is sound in this situation -- if this thead isn't enough and the OP is still considering a pup from this woman (I hope not, but you never know), he SHOULD go and see the pups and the place before giving the breeder a cent.

Have you looked at the breeder's site, DJ, or are you just jumping on things people say in this thread? Because that's not terribly helpful.


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## SchnauzerLove (Jul 7, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> You know, I didn't have to put a deposit down until I had been offered an actual, specific puppy. I was on a waiting list, I was offered a puppy, the breeder chose which puppy I was getting when he was nine weeks old, and then I paid. Not all breeders require a non-refundable deposit before you're even offered a pup. In fact, I had no problem getting on the waiting lists of seven reputable AKK breeders who didn't require a cent; I had the luxury of avoiding the few who wanted several hundred non-refundable dollars for the privilege of going on their long waiting lists.
> 
> Anyway, in _this situation_, this breeder only seems to take deposits on specific puppies ("We require a $300-$400 deposit to hold a puppy, depending on price of puppy" -- remember, they charge different prices for different colors, so you don't know how much to put down until you pick your puppy). They don't seem to take deposits on unborn litters at all. SchnauzerLove's advice is sound in this situation -- if this thead isn't enough and the OP is still considering a pup from this woman (I hope not, but you never know), he SHOULD go and see the pups and the place before giving the breeder a cent.
> 
> Have you looked at the breeder's site, DJ, or are you just jumping on things people say in this thread? Because that's not terribly helpful.


Thank you for understanding my point, and to DJetzel well Im sorry i couldnt expres myself in a better way for you to understand, I believe sarcastic comments like "Guh, good luck.." are simply out of topic, I was refering TO CASES LIKE THIS ONE since they happen a lot of times, more than you could think of, where breeders are just after your money, I bought my dog from a breeder 9 years ago and I didnt have tu put a cent to make a deposit for my dog, he wanted to place the puppy in a loving home and one that was ready for a Schnauzer not just one that hands him the money, he came to my house, got to know us better, asked lots of questions about us, our life style, our knowledge regarding the breed etc, and then once we got all of his papers, vet checks, xrays, etc etc is when we paid, we didnt chose our puppy, the breeder decided what puppy was right for us, and certainly didnt pay more depending on his color or sex.


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## Tami (Aug 31, 2006)

Personally I would contact the national breed club for breeder referrals. http://thebca.org/breedref.html 

I would also visit dog shows in your area and talk to breeders there. You'll be able to see their dogs out, moving and temperament wise. They will be the ones that invest the time and money to show/title their dogs. They are getting 3rd party opinions that their dogs are conformationally correct, represent the breed standard and have temperaments that should be passed on. They will also most likely test their dogs to produce the best animal possible. Like others have said regardless of whether you personally want a show dog you do want someone who tests their stock to ensure they aren't knowingly passing on problems that are hereditary. Bulldogs can have a laundry list of problems so testing for what they can and producing the healthiest puppy possible will only help to better the breed as a whole.

There are actually several specialty shows coming up on Nov 26/27 in Charlotte if that is anywhere near you. Here is a list of specialties from the national club http://thebca.org/specials.html Most breeders tend to travel for specialties (which just means it's an all bulldog show). There will be more people to talk to and more information to be had. Even if the people you meet don't have puppies or any expected litters they can usually refer you to a quality breeder that does. Just for example I live in So Cal but we travel between CA/OR/NV/AZ and have even shown in WA and UT for specialties so you will probably find a greater mix of breeders/dogs. You could also go to any allbreed show (those can be found by searching akc.org events tab or http://infodog.com/panels/nc.htm is shows in NC) but there tends to be a lower number of breeders/dogs from each breed at all breeds. Oh and if you do go to any shows just be aware that before they show the exhibitors will likely be busy trying to get dogs ready but after they are done they are usually very open to talking about the breed 

The first link for breeder referral also has people listed in NC that can give you info on area breed clubs. They could probably give you contact info for a club local to where you live and most local clubs have their own breeder referrals.

Tami


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> Have you looked at the breeder's site, DJ, or are you just jumping on things people say in this thread? Because that's not terribly helpful.


No, I didn't. Everyone here has already formed their opinions and shoved them down the OPs throat, I didn't see the need. I wasn't jumping on anything, I was being whiney. I've been trying to find a pup for a while and there's no way I'll be getting one without being on a heck of a waiting list first, it seems. Which is why I offered the good luck. 



SchnauzerLove said:


> Thank you for understanding my point, and to DJetzel well Im sorry i couldnt expres myself in a better way for you to understand, I believe sarcastic comments like "Guh, good luck.." are simply out of topic,


I wasn't being sarcastic, but I can see how you'd get that from what I said. I was literally saying good luck, because I have found one litter that I had the option of choosing from AFTER they were whelped. The rest need deposits to hold my place because they are so sought after.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> No, I didn't. Everyone here has already formed their opinions and shoved them down the OPs throat, I didn't see the need.


Wow, nice way to put it. If you'd actually looked at the breeder's site, you'd understand why we're offering so much information and concern (which the OP has repeatedly thanked us for, btw). Also, compared to some other recent threads I could name (maltese pregnancy, for example, where many people, including you, were _much_ more forceful with their information and opinions), this thread is hardly full of people shoving anything down anyone's throat.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> Wow, nice way to put it. If you'd actually looked at the breeder's site, you'd understand why we're offering so much information and concern (which the OP has repeatedly thanked us for, btw). Also, compared to some other recent threads I could name (maltese pregnancy, for example, where many people, including you, were _much_ more forceful with their information and opinions), this thread is hardly full of people shoving anything down anyone's throat.


I offered half a page of help to her that she ignored. I'm fairly certain I didn't shove anything down her throat, thanks.  Anymore where I "shoved" something?

Seriously though, it doesn't matter how I worded it (which I didn't mean in a bad way, there was just a LOT of info given to the OP already). I'm sure that they aren't a good breeder, but everyone else has chimed in and I would have nothing left to offer. I don't think you're lieing that it's a bad breeder.

eta; since I was here already, I just figured I'd make lightening conversation via the "Guh, good luck" line, but apparently not...


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I said you were forceful with your information and opinions, which is true. In fact, you said yourself in that thread:



> I tried politely helping. She doesn't want help, so why would I (or anyone else?) continue helping. She's in her own dilusional world, and quite frankly, I'd rather interrogate and accuse her now that try to help anymore.


Compared to that, this thread is all unicorns and rainbows.  But you've explained your comments here now, so we're cool. I don't want to derail this discussion; I think it's been a helpful thread so far and I'm interested in hearing more from the OP.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> But you've explained your comments here now, so we're cool. I don't want to derail this discussion; I think it's been a helpful thread so far and I'm interested in hearing more from the OP.


Agreed. I'm glad the OP has an open mind. 

oh, and just for the record, while I did say that in the other thread, I didn't actually do any of it. Just want to make that noted. That was a nasty thread though.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

On another note.. is it just me or do all the bitches look terrible? The studs aren't shining suns, but the bitches look a mess.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I think what you really mean is "They look a hot mess"


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I actually HAD hot mess, but I had to take it off because don't think I didn't laugh out loud when I typed that out. Totally mature dog owner over here.


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## Papilove (May 20, 2010)

LOL yeah, I was being PC when I decided not to mention that all their dogs looked kind of... off. You're right though, the bitches are the worst.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I was reading the site & was confused when thry only take postal $ orders, not those. From weastern union which is strange bwcause even the tx dps takes those for by-mail of speeding tickets but this breeder will not take one? Strange. Also I see that at leat one of the breeding ma,les as well as the females has the same daddy, I have a funny feeling that some of those dogs are either inbred of too thickly line-bred.

Also curiosity is killing me about this lady is there any one that is knowlageable about breeding in the area that can see this breeder in person? I would do it but I'm in tx lol.

Also, everyone's siggys of their dogs are awesome! I love forums that allow posting of pics in siggys esp your dogs, cran they are too cute, their names fit them so well!


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## Deron_dog (Feb 21, 2009)

All I'm gonna say to the OP is RUN! This is NOT the breeder for you! Run RUN Run as fast as you can. Contact your breed club, they will help you find a good breeder. This is not a good breeder, those dogs are AWEFUL looking, they make me want to cry!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Run RUN Run as fast as you can.


You can't catch me! I'm the gingerbread (wo)man!


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## Deron_dog (Feb 21, 2009)

LMAO @ Xeph, nicely done!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> Ask her what health tests she has done on her breeding dogs. That is going to be the biggest thing right there. Also ask her for her breeding dogs' registered names. You should be able to look them up in this database to make sure the proper tests have been done and see the scores.
> 
> (If she says "my vet looked at both parents and said they're healthy," RUN SCREAMING in the other direction. )


Thanks for the website! I found three of the four breeders I've been talking to in there, not sure why the fourth isn't there, she comes highly recommended, guess I'd better find out!


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## smith allen (Apr 7, 2011)

hi.....
am salm........dogs are good to see and care of us...


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