# How do I give my dog liquid medication?



## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

I am supposed to give him liquid antibiotics through a plunger. It tastes like bubble gum, but he still will not have anything to do with it. I tried giving it to him while sitting on my lap, but he snarled and snapped at me. This poses yet another problem, as I now feel like the dog got the better of me, and I don't want him getting brave because of that. He is only 10 pounds, but I didn't know what to do...he was fighting fiercely.


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## luv4gsds (Jul 27, 2006)

Here is two sites that will help out about giving liquid medication to your pet.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1656&articleid=1071

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Dog_Care:How_to_give_medication


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## harajukulove (Jun 15, 2007)

I had the same problem when I first got my puppy. I found that if I just hold his lips open & squeeze the syringe inside his mouth without any hesitation, he'd take it.


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

I straddle the dog so I can kinda squeeze with my legs to keep them in place (but I have big dogs). Then I take the plunger in my right hand and use my left hand on their muzzle, use my fingers to curl their lips into their mouth (a dog will not want to bite down on their own lips), then just squirt the liquid in their mouth, hold closed w/my left hand and rub their throat with my right to encourage swallowing.


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## harajukulove (Jun 15, 2007)

lovemygreys said:


> I straddle the dog so I can kinda squeeze with my legs to keep them in place (but I have big dogs). Then I take the plunger in my right hand and use my left hand on their muzzle, use my fingers to curl their lips into their mouth (a dog will not want to bite down on their own lips), then just squirt the liquid in their mouth, hold closed w/my left hand and rub their throat with my right to encourage swallowing.


better said!


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## Ceph (May 22, 2007)

Our Jay was recently diagnosed with epilepsy last week and as a result is on liquid potassium bromide...he was really mouth shy when coming back from the vet though so what my dad did was take a small piece of bread - soak the medication into the bread and then sprinkle some parmesian cheese on top - Jay gobbles it right up.

The other thing is if they're mouth shy you might want them to get used to handling their mouth - to get Jay back to normal I have been taking bits of string cheese and opening his mouth and throwing the cheese in - it was a little hard at first but once they get the scent of something good usually they react a little better - when I am doing this I also straddle the dog and squeeze his shoulders between my legs and cup him under the Jaw - sometimes to get his mouth open I insert my finger into a small space where there are no teeth - sometimes I get chomped but usually it works - lol - old horse trick.

Hope this helps.

~Cate


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

lovemygreys said:


> I straddle the dog so I can kinda squeeze with my legs to keep them in place (but I have big dogs). Then I take the plunger in my right hand and use my left hand on their muzzle, use my fingers to curl their lips into their mouth (a dog will not want to bite down on their own lips), then just squirt the liquid in their mouth, hold closed w/my left hand and rub their throat with my right to encourage swallowing.


Do they snarl and growl though? Should I let myselt get intimidated and stopped by that, or should I just ignore it and move right along?


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Dam2007 said:


> Do they snarl and growl though? Should I let myselt get intimidated and stopped by that, or should I just ignore it and move right along?


You want to make sure of two things -- you don't get bit, and you win. If he wins, you'll never be able to medicate him again. 

You said you use a plunger -- is that the same thing as a syringe without a needle? That's what I use. And you can make it easier by using the syringe to give him treats, like liquified baby food, or a watery gravy (non fat). Make it fun. Get him to look forward to it. My dogs like to have water squirted in their mouth, and they'll even lick the syringe as it comes out, but that was after priming with something tasty, or learning from another dog that had learned to enjoy the process. Once they think it's fun, then medicine isn't a problem.

In the meantime, put him in a position where he can't wiggle backwards, and hold his nose closed (muzzle if needed), and slowly squirt the liquid into the the side where the lips meet and there is a pocket inside the cheek. Then, while keeping his nose raised, gently massage his the outside of his throat (rub downwards), to encourage him to swallow. You can also blow on gently on the end of his nose and that will help him to swallow.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

Well, that didn't work out too well....I put on a harness and tied him to a post, so he can't run forward...I wrapped him in a blanket, so his arms would be immobilized....I straddled him so he can't move back or side to side....I grabbed his muzzle and pulled the syringe out of my pocket...and the second it touched his mouth, he went berserk. I couldn't even hold him down very well, or control his snapping, because he is so small, slippery, and quick.

WHAT THE ****?


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

I have to give my mothers corgi the same, I sit him in a corner so he can't back up, hold his nose closed but not hard enough to cut off the airway. I then take the med put it in the corner of his mouth way in the back and squeeze slowly.


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

Sounds like your dog is a bit out of control. If you let the dog win *any* of these battles of will, he will own you. Biting me is NOT acceptable behavior from any of my dogs and if they tried it...oh, they'd be in life changing experience. But I digress...

Since your dog is actually trying to bite you, the method above that does not involve an open mouth is probably the route to go with this dog. If the medicine can be given with food, I'd take the easy way out and make a little meatball (raw ground beef), burrow a hole in it with your finger, squirt the medicine in and let the meat absorb it. The dog should eat the raw meat/medicine with no problems. 

A lot of it is about attitude (Cesar Milan has this part dead on right). Don't approach your dog with fear, anxiety or anger. Be positive, upbeat, matter of fact and KNOW that you control the situation and you control the dog. I hate to say "think alpha/pack leader" but that's really the frame of mind you need to have. The second the dog acts up, I'd give a verbal correction and keep going.

I'm not sure how old your dog is, but I think this is an important activity for every dog owner to do - at least once a month you should give your dog a good once over from nose to tail - including running your hands over all parts of their body, including manipulation their toes and lifting their gums/opening their mouth. It keeps the dog used to being handled by humans and will help you learn your dog so you know when something is "off." It's easier if you start from the time the dog is a puppy, but you can condition an adult dog to accept this. Being able to handle your dog comes in real handy when you have to do things like administer medicine  You may also want to look into NILIF - nothing in life is free as a way of establishing your role as the dog's leader. It maybe won't help in *this* particular scenario, but it will help for the future.


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

Lovemygreys, that is a great idea giving someting to the dog once a month so they get use to it. I have a large AB who get a vitiman everyday now after the fight I had to go through with her when she was young and needed antibiotics.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

lovemygreys said:


> Biting me is NOT acceptable behavior from any of my dogs and if they tried it...oh, they'd be in life changing experience.


Could you elaborate a little more on that, please? What should be my response to a bite or snap?

I went to the store and just bought a muzzle and a choke-chain. Unfortunately, I have to use these as a last resort. Can anyone advise me on the proper use of a choke chain in this situation?


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Dam2007 said:


> Could you elaborate a little more on that, please? What should be my response to a bite or snap?
> 
> I went to the store and just bought a muzzle and a choke-chain. Unfortunately, I have to use these as a last resort. Can anyone advise me on the proper use of a choke chain in this situation?


Have you thought of going back to the vet and having him/her show you how to do it, or asking for the medication in pill form? I hate to see you turn this into an adversarial situation, and am concerned that you'll get bit, especially since your last post said that you "grabbed" his muzzle. Choke chains have their use, but I'm concerned in this situation that you could do more harm than good with one. They have been known to cause collapsing trachea, which is probably a lot worse than the problem you are giving him the medication for. The muzzle is a good idea, depending on the one you bought, simply to protect you. But the dog is still going to be whipping his head around and that's not going to make it easy to get the medicine in.

Have you tried just offering it to him to lick off the syringe? Have you tried first using some other more palatable liquid so he'll get the idea that they syringe is a good thing? If I were you, I'd find another way to do this (like hiding it in the meatball as suggested above) and start working on this problem in a more relaxed state. The suggestion above about handling your dog monthly is a great one, but with your dog, I'd suggest doing it every few days until he's comfortable with it, and then stretch it out to monthly if you like. Your vet will also appreciate you giving your dog a "complete exam" so that he's used to it and the vet is at less risk for a bite.

Having your dog comply to what you ask him to do is essential, but that's going to be a lot harder to achieve if he loses trust in you. Try to find an easier way to accomplish this, and build that trust in other ways on other days.


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## Amaya-Mazie-Marley (Apr 15, 2007)

You got a muzzle and a choke chain for a TEN pound dog? Are you serious? You are being intimidated by a ten pound dog and can't give it a simple syringe of medicine. My eight pound dog will sit in my lap and take it happily. You have to make your dog listen and by letting your dog show its ass and not get its medicine its winning. It knows that every time you try and give it medicine, if it fights, it doesn't get the medicine. Your dog needs some serious training and someone to show it whose boss. I'm sorry if I sound rude but thats ridiculous. I could understand if it was a 100 pound dog, but a 10 pound dog, no. If you have to scruff him then so be it. You aren't hurting him. I just think its pathetic you can't handle a 10 pound dog so you are going to muzzle him and choke him into his medicine. Those things are only making it wose. Your dog is over reacing because for one he knows he can win and for two you are over reacing. Dogs are a big reflection of their owners.
As far as your situation goes, and the way you are percieving yourself. If your dog snaps at you, get up an walk away. Simple as that. Don't even look at your dog, yell or anything, get up, and leave.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

Amaya-Mazie-Marley said:


> You got a muzzle and a choke chain for a TEN pound dog? Are you serious? You are being intimidated by a ten pound dog and can't give it a simple syringe of medicine. My eight pound dog will sit in my lap and take it happily. You have to make your dog listen and by letting your dog show its ass and not get its medicine its winning. It knows that every time you try and give it medicine, if it fights, it doesn't get the medicine. Your dog needs some serious training and someone to show it whose boss. I'm sorry if I sound rude but thats ridiculous. I could understand if it was a 100 pound dog, but a 10 pound dog, no. If you have to scruff him then so be it. You aren't hurting him. I just think its pathetic you can't handle a 10 pound dog so you are going to muzzle him and choke him into his medicine. Those things are only making it wose. Your dog is over reacing because for one he knows he can win and for two you are over reacing. Dogs are a big reflection of their owners.
> As far as your situation goes, and the way you are percieving yourself. If your dog snaps at you, get up an walk away. Simple as that. Don't even look at your dog, yell or anything, get up, and leave.


First of all, this is my first dog. Second, perhaps I am a wimp, but I will say this - I am amazed at how frightening a 10-pound Chihuahua mix can be when he is violently struggling, growling, and snapping. Third, of course if I really wanted to, I can just grab him and pin him, but I don't want to hurt him either. The way he struggles, if I exert a lot of force on him, he will end up hurting himself, I think. 

Lastly, I am a bit confused by your last paragraph, because in the first part of you warn against letting the dog win, which I take to mean that you must be assertive in giving him his medicine. But now you tell me I should just walk away if he snaps? What then? I come back and try it again? What if I get the same reaction over and over again?


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## Amaya-Mazie-Marley (Apr 15, 2007)

Okay let me tell you how I feel on this whole situation. If your dog is violently struggling, growling and snapping he obviously doesn't trust you. Your dog should let you run your hands all over him and have no problem with it. Chihuahuas are notorious for being biters, but not their owners. If you can grab him and pin him, then do it, you aren't hurting him. If he gets a little roughed up then too damn bad, you are the boss and he has to take his medication. You are the boss of you dog, and your dog absolutely has to listen to you. As far as my last paragraph, getting up and walking away isn't letting him win. You are ignoring him and telling him that, No its not okay to play this game, I don't have time for it. You need to establish with your dog that you are the boss and he can't push you around which is exactly what he's doing right now. I think your problem is your fear of him biting you. You have to get over that and bite the bullet. I'm not sure what this dogs medicine is for but if it was given by a vet, that means your dog has to take it. From what I'm gathering here he hasn't taken it at all since it was prescribed to him. If you are afraid of your dog then he picks up on that and he knows he can bully you around. I'm not saying use force and abuse him into letting him know you are the boss but something has to be done. I have been told by many people, and even people on this forum that I take exceptional care of my dogs. My dogs know who is boss and who they have to listen to. Behavior such as biting, growling, violently struggling, is very unnaceptable in this house. My dogs look up to me and trust me. They know how they are supposed to act and if they get out of line its handled. If you think your dog needs to be muzzled then you can do that. You can still administer the medicine like that. Just put the muzzle on him and insert the tip of the syringe in his mouth with the muzzle on. Afterwards blow in his nose or stroke his throat to get him to swallow.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Yes, this dog is out of control. Yes she needs to train the dog to accept her. But right now, she needs to get the medication in him, and hopefully without either of them getting hurt. Please don't use force by pinning him. Holding him in place is fine, pinning him, especially when you might be overstressed, can lead to broken bones in a dog that small. Please be careful.

Once again, can you not slip the liquid into something else? Can you mix it with a nonfat gravy? Pick your battles, and save training for a time when it's not so urgent to get meds into him.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

Amaya-Mazie-Marley said:


> Okay let me tell you how I feel on this whole situation. If your dog is violently struggling, growling and snapping he obviously doesn't trust you. Your dog should let you run your hands all over him and have no problem with it. Chihuahuas are notorious for being biters, but not their owners. If you can grab him and pin him, then do it, you aren't hurting him. If he gets a little roughed up then too damn bad, you are the boss and he has to take his medication. You are the boss of you dog, and your dog absolutely has to listen to you. As far as my last paragraph, getting up and walking away isn't letting him win. You are ignoring him and telling him that, No its not okay to play this game, I don't have time for it. You need to establish with your dog that you are the boss and he can't push you around which is exactly what he's doing right now. I think your problem is your fear of him biting you. You have to get over that and bite the bullet. I'm not sure what this dogs medicine is for but if it was given by a vet, that means your dog has to take it. From what I'm gathering here he hasn't taken it at all since it was prescribed to him. If you are afraid of your dog then he picks up on that and he knows he can bully you around. I'm not saying use force and abuse him into letting him know you are the boss but something has to be done. I have been told by many people, and even people on this forum that I take exceptional care of my dogs. My dogs know who is boss and who they have to listen to. Behavior such as biting, growling, violently struggling, is very unnaceptable in this house. My dogs look up to me and trust me. They know how they are supposed to act and if they get out of line its handled. If you think your dog needs to be muzzled then you can do that. You can still administer the medicine like that. Just put the muzzle on him and insert the tip of the syringe in his mouth with the muzzle on. Afterwards blow in his nose or stroke his throat to get him to swallow.


Ok, if he doesn't cooperate, can I do more than just ignore him to get the message across? Like tie him to the stair-post with a very short leash to restrict his movement as punishment? Or put him in a small crate (not the one he sleeps in) for a while? Or withold food until he takes the meds?


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## Amaya-Mazie-Marley (Apr 15, 2007)

Um No. Taking his food from his is called animal cruelty, tying him to the stair post where he can't barely move but can see everyone around him walking around is also animal cruelty. When he starts acting like that he does need a time out. A crate is the best, if he is a puppy its also good to start house training him this way.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Dam2007 said:


> Ok, if he doesn't cooperate, can I do more than just ignore him to get the message across? Like tie him to the stair-post with a very short leash to restrict his movement as punishment? Or put him in a small crate (not the one he sleeps in) for a while? Or withold food until he takes the meds?


None of those things are going to solve your problem because he will have no idea why you're doing it. Ignoring him does work great if he wants something from you, but all he wants now is for you to leave him alone. So I disagree that ignoring him is the best solution. 

Again, get the meds in him in a pleasant way, and start training with positive reinforcement so that he allows you to work with him without the stress.



Amaya-Mazie-Marley said:


> Um No. Taking his food from his is called animal cruelty, tying him to the stair post where he can't barely move but can see everyone around him walking around is also animal cruelty. When he starts acting like that he does need a time out. A crate is the best, if he is a puppy its also good to start house training him this way.


The problem with crating him after one of these wrestling matches is that it will be punishment. And the crate should never be used for punishment. There is no way that she's going to be able to put that dog in a crate, after the stress of wrestling with him, without giving off body language clues that she's upset - and that means punishment.


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## Amaya-Mazie-Marley (Apr 15, 2007)

DogAdvocat said:


> Yes, this dog is out of control. Yes she needs to train the dog to accept her. But right now, she needs to get the medication in him, and hopefully without either of them getting hurt. Please don't use force by pinning him. Holding him in place is fine, pinning him, especially when you might be overstressed, can lead to broken bones in a dog that small. Please be careful.
> 
> Once again, can you not slip the liquid into something else? Can you mix it with a nonfat gravy? Pick your battles, and save training for a time when it's not so urgent to get meds into him.


Okay I disagree with this. Yes the medicine needs to be given to the dog, but how is that possible without training the dog first that it has to listen to his owner? This dog is out of control and the way the OP talks about it, its a very out of control dog that needs some serious help. She can't even administed medication to this dog. How many of you on here can't give your dog medication? I could go take pictures of me giving my dogs medications right now and all you would see was a happy dog sitting and waiting. This issue scares me. Talking about taking away a dogs food, talking about tying and restricting its movement. Both of those are animal cruelty. I really don't think you should have a dog. That is ridiculous, why would you even ask if that was okay to do. If you had kids would you tie them to the stairs or not give them food until they did something? NO or else your ass would go to jail. If you are going to get a dog, at least educate yourself beforehand.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

DogAdvocat said:


> None of those things are going to solve your problem because he will have no idea why you're doing it. Ignoring him does work great if he wants something from you, but all he wants now is for you to leave him alone. So I disagree that ignoring him is the best solution.
> 
> Again, get the meds in him in a pleasant way, and start training with positive reinforcement so that he allows you to work with him without the stress.
> 
> ...


Again, I would NOT be using the same crate that he sleeps in. I'd be using a different, slightly smaller one.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Dam2007 said:


> Again, I would NOT be using the same crate that he sleeps in. I'd be using a different, slightly smaller one.


A crate is a crate. Crates should not be used for punishment.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

Amaya-Mazie-Marley said:


> Okay I disagree with this. Yes the medicine needs to be given to the dog, but how is that possible without training the dog first that it has to listen to his owner? This dog is out of control and the way the OP talks about it, its a very out of control dog that needs some serious help. She can't even administed medication to this dog. How many of you on here can't give your dog medication? I could go take pictures of me giving my dogs medications right now and all you would see was a happy dog sitting and waiting. This issue scares me. Talking about taking away a dogs food, talking about tying and restricting its movement. Both of those are animal cruelty. I really don't think you should have a dog. That is ridiculous, why would you even ask if that was okay to do. If you had kids would you tie them to the stairs or not give them food until they did something? NO or else your ass would go to jail. If you are going to get a dog, at least educate yourself beforehand.


OK, first of all, RELAX. If I were cruel, I would just do it without consulting experienced owners, like I am now. It was merely one idea out of many, contemplated in desperation and fear for the health of the dog. Second, seeing as how there are plenty of dogs around town tied to a post so their owners can run into a Starbucks, I didn't think it was exceptionally cruel.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Those owners are idiots, and in danger of losing their dogs.  But beyond that, those owners aren't in desperation when they tie their dogs up. And believe me, your dog can read your body language.

Since you're answering so quickly, can you tell me why you won't consider giving him the meds in another form, like mixed with nonfat gravy?


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## Amaya-Mazie-Marley (Apr 15, 2007)

Theres a differance in tying your dog to a post for 5 minutes with a regular loose leash to go get coffee than "Like tie him to the stair-post with a very short leash to restrict his movement as punishment?" That is animal cruelty yes. Why would you punish an animal that has no way of understand what you are doing to him and why. A firm NO is good enough then get up and walk away. You need to train your dog and I'm sorry if I'm coming off rude but this thread is insane.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

I don't think any of us mean to be rude, but I think we're responding to a sense of urgency in this. I'm feeling like I need to make myself clear before you do something that will get you bit, or hurt the dog.


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

Dam2007, Like said above going to the vet for a lesson is a good idea and I will tell you if the dog is ten pounds don't let him see the meds coming and hold his muzzle just enough he can't bite you. Then put the meds in the back of his mouth on the outside of his teeth through his lips and slowly give it. He won't choke or be able to bite you if done right, I have had numerouse dogs to the vets that have been given liqued meds like that.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

The thing is, just holding his muzzle is going to make him pull backwards, which will make her loose grip of his muzzle, and she's liable to be bit. At best this is a job for two people, one to hold the dog and it's head, the other to hold the muzzle and operate the syringe. 

Unless, of course, the liquid is administered in some other way that doesn't require handling the dog.

Save training for after the meds are administered. First things first.

Let's remember this is a new dog, and still is going to have trust issues. If those are made worse, then training is going to be that much harder.


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

If it's meds that taste like bubblegum, it's probably liquid amoxil. You should be able to get that in pill form from your vet. By the sounds of it, it would be easier to hide a pill in a bit of canned food, lunchmeat or cheese than wrestled with a scared dog who's acting aggressively.

The way I give liquids to my cats is to wrap a towel around the chest & front legs like a bib, then pin her body between my legs, facing away from me, as I'm sitting on the floor. Holding the head with one hand, I press the end of the syringe against the side of the mouth with the other until they open it enough to squirt it in as fast as I can. Release and praise. 

But with a dog? I think pills are way easier.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

Well here's an update - I took the dog back to my vet and insisted that someone show me how to deliver the medication. So one of the nurses (or whatever you call them) just sat with the dog between his legs, the dog facing away from him, grabbing him around the muzzle with two fingers of one hand (middle-finger under the muzzle, index finger crossing just below the eyes, and shoved the syringe in his mouth with the other. He was more forceful with the dog than I ever imagined one could be. The dog struggled, but not nearly as violently as he did with me, and did not make a keep or snap at the doc once. The doc probably told me that the main problem was that the dog sensed my anxiety and lack of confidence. So he had me practice with him a few times afterwards, and I think I can do it. I'll let you folks know tonight.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Wonderful. I'm glad you did that. Good luck.


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

DogAdvocat said:


> The thing is, just holding his muzzle is going to make him pull backwards, which will make her loose grip of his muzzle, and she's liable to be bit. At best this is a job for two people, one to hold the dog and it's head, the other to hold the muzzle and operate the syringe.
> 
> Unless, of course, the liquid is administered in some other way that doesn't require handling the dog.
> 
> ...


That is why I have my mothers Corgi sit in the corner so he can't back up, I have had good luck with that approch but I do see what you are saying.



Dam2007 said:


> Well here's an update - I took the dog back to my vet and insisted that someone show me how to deliver the medication. So one of the nurses (or whatever you call them) just sat with the dog between his legs, the dog facing away from him, grabbing him around the muzzle with two fingers of one hand (middle-finger under the muzzle, index finger crossing just below the eyes, and shoved the syringe in his mouth with the other. He was more forceful with the dog than I ever imagined one could be. The dog struggled, but not nearly as violently as he did with me, and did not make a keep or snap at the doc once. The doc probably told me that the main problem was that the dog sensed my anxiety and lack of confidence. So he had me practice with him a few times afterwards, and I think I can do it. I'll let you folks know tonight.


Good Luck dogs can be something!


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

OK, here is the update...

Since we got back from the vet, I have occasionally been placing him the way the vet placed him - me sitting down, the lower part of his body squeezed between my legs, his upper back against my stomach, me grabbing his upper jaw from above and slowly lifting, and sneaking in the syringe with the other hand. After his mouth opened I placed a treat inside and then let him go and praised him. I did this a few times to get him relaxed in that position. 

Then just a few minutes ago, I sat him on my lap, gave him a treat, hid the syringe under the blanket next to me, then put him in the same position. Now this is the incredible part: even though we practiced this at least 5 times today without incident, this time, as I tried lifting his jaw, he started growling...almost like he knew the medication was coming. (I should mention that my heart was pounding as I was doing this).

So I put him on the ground and showed him a treat, as if to say, "chill out, I'm just gonna pop a treat in your mouth like we've been doing today, ok?" So I lifted his jaw again, and quickly snuck in the syringe and pushed the liquid in. Well, half or more of the liquid ended up on the floor or on his paw, but it was a semi-victory, but did not go nearly as well as I would have liked.

After that, I picked him up again, gave him a treat, and tried opening his mouth again...and he went berserk, growling and snapping. I quickly threw him off my lap.

Thoughts? This is really getting on my nerves.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

The fact that you recognized your heart was pounding means that you were telegraphing your nervousness to him.

I'm going to try once again to make this point. I'm repeating it because you really aren't responding to it, so I don't know if you're getting it or not. Your dog is new, and he's going to naturally have trust issues. He doesn't know you, and he naturally wants to protect himself against what he may see as attacks from you. All this that you're doing with him is only going to increase his lack of trust. I can't stress more highly the importance of taking the easiest route on this, and putting the medication in something (like a meatball, or mixed with nonfat gravy that he can lick out of the syringe), so you can medicate quickly and pleasantly, and move on to getting to know and trust each other.

Getting to know and trust each other should be done with training using positive reinforcement. He needs to know you won't hurt him. If this biting issue were something you were dealing with in a dog you'd had for a long time, then it would be another thing, but this is a new dog. Get the meds in him in the easiest possible way, and start training, and have patience.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

DogAdvocat said:


> The fact that you recognized your heart was pounding means that you were telegraphing your nervousness to him.
> 
> I'm going to try once again to make this point. I'm repeating it because you really aren't responding to it, so I don't know if you're getting it or not. Your dog is new, and he's going to naturally have trust issues. He doesn't know you, and he naturally wants to protect himself against what he may see as attacks from you. All this that you're doing with him is only going to increase his lack of trust. I can't stress more highly the importance of taking the easiest route on this, and putting the medication in something (like a meatball, or mixed with nonfat gravy that he can lick out of the syringe), so you can medicate quickly and pleasantly, and move on to getting to know and trust each other.
> 
> Getting to know and trust each other should be done with training using positive reinforcement. He needs to know you won't hurt him. If this biting issue were something you were dealing with in a dog you'd had for a long time, then it would be another thing, but this is a new dog. Get the meds in him in the easiest possible way, and start training, and have patience.


OK, good post, thanks. I guess you're right...I think I am taking what he is doing too personally. Anyway, as we speak, I hear him eating some of the pieces of lamb that I coated with the medication. Not sure if he likes it or is going to finish it, but we'll see.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Dam2007 said:


> OK, good post, thanks. I guess you're right...I think I am taking what he is doing too personally. Anyway, as we speak, I hear him eating some of the pieces of lamb that I coated with the medication. Not sure if he likes it or is going to finish it, but we'll see.


Great, let us know how it goes. It does kind of sound like you've taken an adversarial position with him, and it would be much better to relax and be his soft place to land since he's so new. But as soon as possible, do start the training because you don't want this biting thing to get out of hand (no pun intended). He needs to know you're boss, but you don't have to be a mean boss.

Just think how you would feel if you landed in a new job, with people speaking a different language, and they were trying to not only force things down your throat, but also were yelling at you, shoving you in the closet, and seemed angry all the time. LOL. You'd probably want to bite too, or at least pee on their leg. 

Does he already know how to sit on command? If not, do you know how to get him started doing that? Start watching him and anything he does that you think is a good thing, even without your asking him to - name it and praise it. If he sits on his own - "Sit, good boy !" If he lays down - "Down, good boy !" etc. Think of it as teaching him your language. And use his name only for good. You want it to be the sweetest word on earth to him.


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## Amaya-Mazie-Marley (Apr 15, 2007)

I agree with DogAdvocat. You've had your dog for a week I think you said, so I would do some exercises with him to help him trust you. When I first brought both of my girls home they were nervous and didn't really want to interact with anyone. I had them on leads already to get them used to a leash. So when they were close enough I casually grabbed the leash, but I would lay down in the floor. I would lay on my stomach and offer them treats. They would come for treats but quickly back away. I did this for a week for sometimes hours at a time and eventually they realized I wasn't going to hurt them. I continued to do so after they got used to me, to strengthen the trust. If you don't want to lay in the floor just sit in a chair or in the floor where he can get to you, since he's so small and offer him treats and talk in a soft voice. Always praise him when he comes to you, after a while you can start using his name, and its a great start for recall training.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

To answer your question, DogAdvocat, no, he doesn't sit on command...but I saw some youtube videos on clicker training, and have been doing that for the last couple of days...hold the treat in my hand, bring it up over his head, wait for him to put his ass on the floor, say "Sit!" just before it happens, hit the clicker when it hits the floor, then give the treat immediately after, with praise. He sits most of the time this way, but so far he doesn't respond to "Sit" without the treat and the over the head movement. Am I doing this right? How long do I have to do this for? When should I move to the next step? What IS the next step?

I have also been working on "Stay" with him - I walk around the room with him, then tell him "Stay" in a firm voice. I then turn and face him, point my finger at him and again say "Stay"....I very slowly back away, pointing at him and saying "Stay" every few seconds, occasionally snapping my fingers or doing the Caesar Milan style "Sh!" to keep him focused on me. If he moves, I lightly jerk the chain to the side and say "No!", then start over. If he stays and remains focused for a good amount of time (up to 15-25 seconds at this point), I say, "good boy! come here!" and give him a treat. We also practice this on the sidewalk and walking up and down the stairs.

today we also practiced stair-climbing/descending. I noticed that when we go up and down the stairs (especially after putting his harness+leash on and heading upstairs/outside), he gets very excited and runs ahead of me, and also crosses thresholds of doors ahead of me, which I was told should not be allowed. So today I put the chain & leash on him (giving him a treat after putting it on, making sure it isn't associated purely with correction) and practiced going up and down the stairs. We start at the bottom...if he runs up without waiting for me, I pull him back and say "No!". So I wait for him to relax, climb the next step, and repeat the procedure if he bolts ahead of me again. We continue up the staircase...then I open the door at the top, again gently pulling him back and telling him to stay until I cross the threshold. Sometimes I make him stay at the bottom step and repeat the "Stay" exercise above, until I get about a 3rd of the way up, then say "good boy, come!", treat, then pet him. We only practiced this twice for 10 minutes at a time, and already he is much more hesitant to run up or down the stairs ahead of me.

Any comments are welcome and appreciated.


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

That all sounds good. The main thing I'd advise is to be very patient. Think of sending a child to school, and then being disappointed that she couldn't pass the SAT's after a week of kindergarten. Your dog is in kindergarten. You don't know what training he's had before, but even if he did, he has to get used to the way you do it.

Another thing is make the treats very small. All he needs is a taste. You don't want to fill him up so that he loses interest. 

As for the clicker training, I defer to someone else in the forum who has experience with this. For me, it's just an added inconvenience that's harder for those of us who can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I prefer just using verbal and visual commands. I do both because I've had too many dogs that have lost their vision or hearing as they age, and being able to continue to communicate with the sense they still have is invaluable.

Another suggestion is don't ever ask him to do something (especially in initial training) that you can't control. In other words, don't ask him to come without having a leash on him whereby you can pull him to you while saying come, assuming he's not coming on his own. I hope that made sense. You don't want to ask him to come and then have to chase him around the yard hoping he'll stop and comply.


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

DogAdvocat said:


> Another suggestion is don't ever ask him to do something (especially in initial training) that you can't control. In other words, don't ask him to come without having a leash on him whereby you can pull him to you while saying come, assuming he's not coming on his own. I hope that made sense. You don't want to ask him to come and then have to chase him around the yard hoping he'll stop and comply.


hmm....well, let me give you this scenario that happens occasionally with me and him: he loves jumping on my couch and lying down next to / on top of me, but I only allow him to do this by my invitation - if he jumps up without me asking him to, I firmly say "Off!", and invite him back up after a minute if he behaves. Well, sometimes he is just chilling in his crate, and usually when I invite him up on my couch while he is in there, he comes out of the crate and walks over. But sometimes he just doesn't respond, obviously comfy where he is...which is fine in and of itself, but I don't like the fact that I am letting him get away with not listening to me. What do you recommend in this situation? Sometimes I think I just ought to forcibly pull him out by the leash as a way of saying "when I say come, I mean come" (I didn't do that yet though). Wrong mentality on my part?

There are also some instances where he loses interest during a training session and just walks back towards his crate, despite me asking him to come back. What should I do in that case?


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

Well first, don't drag him out of the crate for anything. It's a good way to get bit, especially with a dog that you don't know very well. Plus his crate should be his safety zone, and that concept won't be reinforced if you're attacking him by dragging him out.

And second, I sense that you are still in an adversarial frame of mind with this dog. You may have taken the concept of being the alpha dog a little too seriously. It IS important to not give commands that you cannot enforce, but maybe when you're resting on the couch in a relaxed position, you should be offering an invitation and not a command - especially since you don't have him on leash and can't enforce your command. And by enforcing your command, I mean you need to pull him (gently) with the leash he is wearing - NOT drag him out of the crate, or use force to drag him from anywhere. What you basically need to do is use the leash to encourage him to move in the direction you've asked him to. And make it fun once he gets there, either by offering a treat, or praise by words or by petting. 

Also, try giving him the sit command when he approaches the couch, before he has a chance to jump up. If you're vigilant, you should be able to catch him. That way he is more likely to understand he has to sit first in order to get your permission.

And remember, be patient. Training should be enjoyable for both of you.

By the way, not all dogs have to be treated as if we're in fear that they will take over if we let them get away with the slightest thing. I realize that his Tazmanian Devil routine during medicating him was of concern, but is there any other way that he's being too bossy? My dogs get up on the couch and bed anytime they want, and there is no problem. They still know who's boss. So it might not be so necessary to be so strict with him. Strictness is necessary, though, if he refuses to respect your authority in other ways -- like for instance if he would refuse to get down off the couch when told. Now I do believe there is a difference between REFUSING and being too comfortable to react right away. You'll know by his glare, and maybe even a growl, or more, if he is refusing. That's when you want to be more strict and make sure that you are the one that calls the shots.

Have you read the excellent advice in this forum on NILIF? If not, I can try to find it for you, or maybe someone else has it bookmarked and can repost it on this thread. (hint hint)


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## Dam2007 (Jun 7, 2007)

Well, there was this one time, about the 3rd night I had him. He got on the couch, but I didn't see it right away, so he got a little comfy. When I notice he was on the couch, I told him to get off. When he didn't comply, I started pushing his rear end. He resisted and growled a little, but grudgingly got off. Now he usually gets off when told (although in a hesitant way), and only a couple of times, I had to give his rear end a gently push, but I have only gotten a growl out of him that one time.


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