# Rough Collies and Reputable Breeders



## Kisetsu (May 15, 2014)

Hello, hopefully I'm posting this in the right section.

My Fiance and I are in the process of buying our first home. It's a decent sized house, with a decent sized fenced in yard, big enough for a few dogs and a couple of kids in the future. We already have two dogs, a Pomeranian and a Lab mix. However, I would love to get a third dog. My Fiance has been against getting a third one, but he's finally agreed. So, we're looking to get a puppy around October. We took a week off of work for our wedding, but we're not going anywhere, so we figured this would be a good time to get a puppy. I've decided that I want to get a pup from a reputable breeder. My mother has a few dogs from BYB, as well as other family members, and I've seen first hand the physical and temperamental issues that come with that.

Anyways, a bit about us. I'm 24 and my Fiance will be turning 26. Currently he works day shift, and I work night shift. So our current pups are home alone for about 2 hours a day, 4 days out of the week. We do crate them. The Lab, Baylee, has slight separation anxiety. She does fine in her crate (she barks a bit at first, but settles down), but if you leave her alone in the house, even for that 2 hours, she just destroys it. We're quiet, don't have too many visitors, and for the most part like to just stay at home. We're planning on starting to try and have children around the end of next year (my mother wants to to happen as soon as we're married, but my younger sister is getting married Nov. 2015 and I don't want to have a newborn, or be about to POP around that time). Also, we're not highly active people (again, like to stay home).

What we were looking for in a breed is a dog that is naturally good with children, doesn't require too much exercise (short walks and play time in the yard) and doesn't mind just hanging around the house. Preferably a larger dog. I love my Pom, but he'll be the last small dog I'll have for a while. A dog that doesn't have a desire to roam and wander. Basically, a dog that is playful, but just wants to hang out with us, and wouldn't demand so much from us that we couldn't handle it while raising a baby.

The breed I found that matches most of this is the Collie. I like dogs with fluffy hair, so we're going with the Rough Collie.

First question I have is, any Collie owners want to tell me about their dogs? Do they sound like a good fit for our needs?

My second question is, how do I find a reputable breeder? What should I be looking for on websites and ads? What questions should I be asking? I don't have an infinite amount of money, so price is a factor. Is it rude to ask how much, on average, puppies are in a first e-mail?

For example, I found a breeder who is close by. She has 4 dogs, 3 females and 1 male. The website states that all puppies are cleared for eye disorders. There's no puppy application on the website, but it states you have to pass a pre-screen. They also have a facebook page, and I've seen a few comments stating puppies are sold on a 'First come, first serve' basis. So there's some conflicting info there. I don't see where any of the dogs have been shown or do any sort of therapy work. Is this important?The breeder also heavily remarks on the facebook page how the puppies are related to the last Lassie, which kind of puts me off. Do they sound reasonable?

Sorry for the story. I've just never dealt with looking for a puppy from a breeder, or choosing a breed before and just looking for some guidance.

Thanks!


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Hmmm the breeder does sound sketchy- the first come first serve comment sounds suspicious, but hey we have have bought pups from notso great sources (the boxer from a van at Dennys was sweet but had terrible allergies, whereas the Boxer from a good breeder was very healthy and had a much sounder temprament)- and no puppy application (just some made up thing the breeder does last minute depending on whether they decide to sell you a pup? hmmm)- does not sound up front at all...

In terms of low energy though, Collie is not what comes to mind. Mellow and hanging out with kids and they kind of yard/ play excercise you want to give screams mastiff, bernese mt dog (good breeder helps here, although our 3 yr old is plenty healthy but IS a couch potatoe, he just wants to be snuggled by his people)....


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Welcome to Dog Forums and congratulations on your up-coming wedding! I don't know much about collies, but kcomstock here has done a great deal of research on the breed and breeders. I know there are a few other collie folks here, too.

This thread has some good information on finding a reputable dog breeder. The collie club for your country (e.g., Collie Club of America) should have good information on recommended health testing and possibly a breeder referral contact. I wouldn't email a breeder and simply ask, "How much for a puppy?" but I would include that question in a longer message (or conversation) about why you want a collie, what you're looking for in a dog, and any questions you have about the breeder.

A few things that strike me about the breeder you mention. First, you said she has one male and three females: does that mean s/he _only_ breeds those dogs or does s/he use outside studs and bitches? Second, selling on a "first come, first serve" basis isn't ideal. Most reputable breeders will work with buyers to find a puppy that matches their needs and wants, not just sell to the first person with cash. Third, I like a breeder to do something with their dogs other than breed, like dog sports (e.g., agility, obedience, conformation), working (for collies, something herding-related would be a natural), therapy. Finally, having dogs related to the last Lassie doesn't really tell you much about the dogs s/he has now. What have they done? Why are they worthy of being bred? That's where titling or working comes in.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I am going to echo what the others have said about the breeder. 

I love collies they are great dogs but just hang around the house with you and do nothing? Not so much. You are describing a mastiff, American Bulldog, bernese mountain dog, saint bernard.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

The other thing to remember is that the beautiful coat takes a lot of maintenance to keep it looking beautiful. So if you're looking for a lower maintenance dog, they're probably not the right choice for you. If you're up for it that's great, but it would be a substantial amount of work.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

That breeder is sketchy. I also would not recommend a collie of any sort, or any herding breed, if you want a dog that hangs out around the house and doesn't need much exercise. I wouldn't recommend a puppy at all in your situation.

While there are lazy breeds- mastiffs, etc.- dogs are living creatures with feelings, ideas, needs and wants. You can't put them aside when it's convenient for you. Simply having your own house and yard does not make for an ideal environment for a dog. You need time and energy, too. Puppies are babies and just like our babies, they require lots of time and effort and cause lots of trouble and mess. Combining a baby dog and a baby human isn't a great idea. Maybe you should wait until the kids are older and you have more time to devote to another family member.


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## Kisetsu (May 15, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies! I appreciate the link about finding a good breeder. Yeah, I didn't have a good feeling on that breeder, but I thought I'd check.

I guess I should rephrase some of what I said. I'm not looking for a dog to just lay around the house all day and that's all they do. I'm looking for a dog that will go on a daily 30 min- 1 hour walk around the neighborhood plus some fetching/playing in the yard. I also want a dog who wants to just be with people. I've read Collie's fit this description. I'm looking for a medium energy dog, not so laid back like a mastiff, but not as high energy as say, a Siberian Husky. I'm not looking for a hiking partner or anything like that.

As far as a baby, we're looking to get this puppy Fall 2014. If we started trying for a baby when we want, and we get pregnant right away (which, who knows), a baby wouldn't be coming until late 2016/early 2017. So the puppy would them be 2+ year old dog. I'm looking for a dog that would be manageable while taking care of a baby. So say, a Siberian Husky as an adult (I'm going with them because we had them when I was a kid) wouldn't be a good choice, because they would not be happy with a 30-45 minute walk with a baby every day. If that makes sense?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

What about a newfie? Too big?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

While I have known a couple collies with some oomph most I've met are very mellow when compared to other herding breeds and to be honest most breeds of dog.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

As some one who raised two infant-toddler with a sheltie (same coat as a rough collie) I will tell you the big draw back is the fur. Now I am going to freely admit I have a lot of issues. I am borderline OCD and I only get worse as I age. I have a mental health disorder that isn't OCD but manifests much the same, germs freak me out (strangely dog germs don't bother me as much) and the whole dog fur in my baby's mouth was an issue for me. Also having time to maintain your dog's coat sort of goes out the window when you have a baby. Coat care is pretty intense with a rough collie. Just something to think about, that will add another hour every other day or so particularly during shedding season (usually twice a year for more than a month). I'm not saying not to get a collie, I think they make phenomenal family dogs, but just think about whether you can handle dog fluff blowing around with a baby crawling on the floor and putting everything in his/her mouth.


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## Chichan (Apr 1, 2014)

What about something like a Cocker Spaniel or a Beagle? 
They're very friendly, excellent with children, affectionate, biddable (more so the Cocker than the Beagle), good on an hour walk. They may be a little more indoor active than you want. 
But when I think or a coach potato that can really get moving when outside I think Greyhound. You'd need to have a dog park nearby where it can really move it.
Do you have a size in mind?
I'd consider Cockers and Beagles to be about medium level energy.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

sassafras said:


> What about a newfie? Too big?


I second the newfie idea. They are usually ok with kids as adults and once they grow up the energy levels you want match up as well.
The only real downsides are a heavy sheading/high maintenance coat, size and drool. Which IME isn't all that bad. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Collies come in a smooth coat variety as well. My shelties weren't that bad. They needed raked out every shedding season several times a week. Other than blowing coat 2x a year it wasn't bad. You can always send the dog to the groomer's during shedding season to get them blown out by a force drier (I'd definitely do that).

Rough collie would be more grooming just because of size. My shelties really only got tangles behind their ears. I tried to brush them out thoroughly once or twice a week and more during shedding season. I bet I spent 10-15 minutes on coat every week on average.... certainly not hours.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

I think a Rough Collie would be fine in most average dog owner homes, assuming you don't get the highest drive puppy in the litter. 

Two things:
1. Remember that having children is extremely time consuming. When you have that child, nothing else is going to matter. Do you really need to add a third dog? You are going to have to always always always keep an eye on a baby/toddler and 2 dogs already. Don't underestimate how difficult it could be. It might be fun to get a puppy right after marriage because you are "practicing" but keep in mind the long term. That being said, if you really truly think about it, and you feel that you are willing to do the work, read ahead. 

2. Be very cautious about selecting a breeder. There is a Collie breeder that someone I know got a dog from that seems legit because they check the eyes. Turns out that is all they test for and they also sell designer breeds on the side. Make sure the breeder does health testing. PRA, CEA and MDR1 are very common Collie health tests. I'd also prefer if they did OFA personally. Make sure you know what MDR1 is. Many Collies have at least one copy of this gene and will be heavily effected/possibly killed by certain drugs/drug dosages. You are welcome to ask about any certain breeder you have in mind. Many here can tell the red flags or good things right away.


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## Kisetsu (May 15, 2014)

I have thought about a Newfie in the past. The size is a concern though. I don't have any experience with a dog that large. 
My Fiance has said no to one specific breed, and that is the Beagle. I also had a bad experience with a Cocker Spaniel/Poodle mix so.... While I have nothing really against them, I just don't have the desire to have them.

The hair doesn't bother me. The Lab sheds constantly and we live with the hair. She get's brushed at least a few times a week, and right now, almost daily. I'm no stranger to taking a dog to the groomer. My Pomeranian doesn't shed like the Lab, it's more of a seasonal thing, and I'm used to brushing his thick hair, trimming, working out tangles, etc. I can deal with the hair, it'll just be on a larger scale. I prefer the seasonal sheds, than the all year long shedding.

I've thought about getting a third dog for a while now, knowing that kids will be coming at some point in time. I have been honest with myself and I feel this is something I can handle. It's just more of finding the right breed, and the right breeder.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

maybe in addition to breed for you, also consider something that will fit in well with the 2 you have-- I cant criticize never thought we would be a 3 dog family and here we are with 3 dogs.....

just try your best to find something that wont terrorize the other 2, squash them... or drive them nuts with trying to play and play and play...


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm surprised no one referred you to me. I'm the crazy collie lady...

I have a rough and a smooth and I've met LOTS of collies. Collies, depending on the breeder and their focus, will have differing energy/exercise needs. Both of my guys are very laid back, but I've known collies that require a lot of exercise. If you take them on walks with you a few times a day, and play with them in your home, I think most collies would be content. 

They LOVE to be with their people. They are not tie up outside dogs. They will lie around and watch TV with you forever, though.

Here is a good site for finding breeders: www.colliesonline.com. It's a weekly online "magazine". The various breeder buy ads to show off their dogs and their wins. There is a list of breeders by state. If you scroll down on the right side of the page you'll see the list. All of the breeders show dogs in some fashion. Mostly it's conformation, but there are a few performance breeders as well.

They are easy to train as long as you change it up and make it interesting. Some dogs will do SIT 30 times in a row and be happy for it. A collie will do it 4-5 times and then will give you the "Let's move on, I've got it" look. Since my dogs are a year apart in age, we did puppy classes twice. Both dogs did the same thing. We'd repeat something just a few times. Then my dog would lie down and watch the class while the others struggled with multiple repetitions. Luckily, the instructor thought this was funny.

Most are not DA and most do fine with small animals. My guys live with 2 cats. I've never had a worry that they'd hurt the cats. They will chase a running cat, though. My female cat doesn't like to be chased, so she'll walk by the dogs. The male cat likes attention, so he'll deliberately run and get the dogs after him. Neither the cats nor I fear for their welfare.

Collies do not meet strangers. They generally won't be enthusiastic, like a Lab, but they will allow themselves to be petted by almost anyone. They can be amazingly tolerant of children. My rough guy is a pet therapy dog. We've gone into nursing homes where he's tolerated unsteady folks touching him awkwardly. He just puts up with all of it. Given that, though, they know who THEIR people are, and always make sure they know where I am.

They are not guard dogs, but they are watch dogs. They will alert you to strangers. They are also protective of their people. My rough dog has gotten between me and a bear... twice. 

They can be barky. Mine are not, but they will alert me to anything they think is important. This may be a person, a car, a deer, a squirrel, etc. Sometimes their idea of important is different than mine.

They can be stubborn. They can be a dog with an opinion. But they can be bribed. Cameron, the smooth, will do anything for food. Toby is a bit more difficult, but if I make something more fun than what he wants to do, he'll come around.

Grooming can be an issue. Toby only needs to be brushed about once a week. But he gets professional grooming once a month. If this won't work for you, I recommend a smoothie. Same great dog, less fur. Smoothies are still double coated. They shed like a Lab. But they don't mat and you can wash them yourself.

I know this is long, but I love the breed. If you have any questions, just post here or you can pm me.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Just adding a bit after rereading your post.

ALL reputable breeders will have the puppies eyes checked at about 6 weeks. If they don't do at least that, RUN!

MANY collie lines are related to Lassie. It's not a big deal either way. If that's their selling point, I'd be a bit leery.

You do want a breeder that's done something more with the dogs than just breed. It could be conformation or performance or therapy work, but you want SOMETHING. It shows a commitment to bettering the breed.

I wouldn't ask price on the first contact with the breeder. Say hi, ask what their dogs are like. Do they show in conformation, do they have performance dogs (if they concentrate on performance you probably don't want a dog from this breeder), when do they expect another litter, and so on. If they seem like someone you're interested in, then ask about price. A good pet quality collie will go for $600-700 or more.

Find a show near you. Colliesonline also lists shows. Go to the show and talk to breeders. That's how I found my guys' breeder. Breeders love talking about their dogs, and they will help you find a breeder close to you or one that breeds dogs closer to your needs (more or less energy and drive).


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

Rowdy might be the crazy collie lady but I am the crazy rescue collie rescue lady. Unless you are really set on a pup, I would also look into rescue. Depending on where you live, there are either very few in rescue or like me in Texas, there are more rescue collies than foster homes available. Also getting an adult, they will be able to tell you about energy level and any other quirks the dog may have.

If you go through a breeder, run if they are breeding merle to merle. These pups are mostly white and are quite often blind and/or deaf. This is different than a color headed white which is a normal dog with more white on it's body than a regular looking dog.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

beardiedawg said:


> Rowdy might be the crazy collie lady but I am the crazy rescue collie rescue lady. Unless you are really set on a pup, I would also look into rescue. Depending on where you live, there are either very few in rescue or like me in Texas, there are more rescue collies than foster homes available. Also getting an adult, they will be able to tell you about energy level and any other quirks the dog may have.
> 
> If you go through a breeder, run if they are breeding merle to merle. These pups are mostly white and are quite often blind and/or deaf. This is different than a color headed white which is a normal dog with more white on it's body than a regular looking dog.


I completely agree with all of this. I have a friend who has always had rescue collies. I've met a total of 4 of her dogs. They all came to her as adults and all have been great dogs. I agree about the merle-merle breedings. RUN from anyone who would do this.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Please look into rescue. The rough Collie in Ginger's agility class had 5 homes before he landed in doggy paradise. He isn't even 2 years old yet. Maybe his forever dogmom is the best dog owner ever, she certainly is his angel, but he sure is a wonderful dog in class. Shy and worries but is blossoming week by week in class.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

I posted to this thread a couple of days ago but accidentally closed the tab and lost everything I wrote -.-.

We'll be getting an adult collie in about two weeks from our breeder in WA. There weren't any collie rescues up here in the northwest that I could find, but I know there are a ton down south. I really wanted an adult, not a puppy so a rescue was the first thing I looked for. Unfortunately they're just not a super common breed up here. 

I love herding breeds, but I wanted a dog a little lower energy than our Aussie. And hopefully a little more cuddly. Ammy could also use a friend and someone to chase around that isn't the cats. 

Our collie has been bred once by our breeder, and will be bred a second a final time next winter before coming to live with us forever. Her first batch of puppies had eyes tested at 6 weeks. My breeder has some fantastic information on her website about collies, the health issues, and what to expect. http://www.tercancollies.com/home/4569019766

Message herself has been tested for almost all collie health issues, including mdr1, thyroid issues, collie eye, OFA elbows etc. I think it's really important to find a breeder who tests for these in all dogs, not just collies. Unfortunately this can also be hard to find. When looking for a field lab for my brother in Texas I could only find one breeder who met all my criteria. 

Anyhow, I love my breeder. She's been very communicative and has answered all questions I had. She also asked ME a lot of questions, which I think is important too!


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