# Sheltie breeders (performance)



## Laurelin

I'm still researching right now and what breed I end up with depends highly on when and what the situation is. Right now shelties are the 'small breed' choice I'm looking at. I'm looking for an agility dog primarily. Fast, good amount of drive, confidence, eager to work with me. I know I want something with more oomph than my past shelties have been, but I have seen the kind of sheltie I like around agility rings. Unfortunately I don't know the breeders of them.

I've been out of the breed for so long (plus our first two were from not so great breeders). My 'well bred' sheltie's breeder doesn't breed anymore and he was too shy and too many issues for what I want. 

Anyone have any suggestions worth looking into?


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## beardiedawg

Are you against a rescue dog? Here in Texas, collies and shelties are always in shelters and rescue groups. I'm sure some of them would be agility prospects.


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## Laurelin

I'll be honest, I'd really like a puppy this go around.


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## valuta8

Why not just get another Papillion? I've found they make lovely little agility competitors. High drive, trust for their owners, intelligence and all that good stuff. Or is your heart set on a sheltie? I can find some good breeders for you, hold on give me like ten minutes ^-^
(My mom is the breeder of a Best in Breed winner at Westminster. If you were just looking for a high quality sheltie I could hook you up with that, but performance dogs is new ground for me.


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## valuta8

http://www.dogsruleateaglerock.com/27.html
You might have to contact them and get on their list for some puppies. I don't know how recent that site is but it seemed to be honest breeders with some titles and awards 

http://ivanleeshelties.homestead.com/
Definitely look into these guys ^^
I think below is the link to some past puppies from previous litters and the cell phone number to call for more info.
http://ivanleeshelties.homestead.com/Puppies.html
 Hope this helped.


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## Laurelin

No,my heart's not set on a sheltie. My heart is set on a border collie but I'm realistic enough to know that it might not be the best choice at the time I'm looking at getting a dog. I'm looking at accelerating my dog plans a little because of Mia's knee problems. She's great for agility otherwise and is okayed by the sports vets for the time being but our career might be a short one. I can't get another papillon or else I'll compare to Mia too much and wish she had better knees. I'm going to need a new agility dog sooner than later though.

I really want a herding breed. It's been 3 years since Trey passed away. Shelties are an easy breed for me since I've owned them longer than any other breed, and also a good agility breed. I have considered a few other breeds- pyr shep- like them on paper but finally met one and it wasn't what I thought it would be. I need to meet more but from the one I met, I like shelties better. Cardis- I like them a lot and think they're great fun personalities but the ones around here are slow compared to what I like. I still secretly want one just to have something different. They seem fun. Aussies- not sure. They're a bit big for my tastes and I'm not convinced any easier than a BC and I prefer BCs.


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## Sibe

Have you talked to sheltie owners at a trial? I think that would be a great place to start if you find out the breeders of the dogs you already like!


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## Pawzk9

Laurelin said:


> I'm still researching right now and what breed I end up with depends highly on when and what the situation is. Right now shelties are the 'small breed' choice I'm looking at. I'm looking for an agility dog primarily. Fast, good amount of drive, confidence, eager to work with me. I know I want something with more oomph than my past shelties have been, but I have seen the kind of sheltie I like around agility rings. Unfortunately I don't know the breeders of them.
> 
> I've been out of the breed for so long (plus our first two were from not so great breeders). My 'well bred' sheltie's breeder doesn't breed anymore and he was too shy and too many issues for what I want.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions worth looking into?


Kristen should be able to help you there. Asher is quite a nice boy, and she certainly knows about Shelties for agility


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## Laurelin

I really like Asher from the few times I've met him. I emailed his breeder already but their website hadn't been updated in a few years so I'm not sure if they still breed or if I'm qualified enough to get a pup either. They have some really impressive dogs though.


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## agility collie mom

If you are willing to travel my advanced agility instructor has three MACH dogs from this breeder: http://www.sunterashelties.com/Performance.htm That is my instructor Pete and his wife. There are not pictures of his third dog on the breeders web site. MACH Suntera Bryce Grandillo

Master Agility Champion ~ AKC

2011

Peter & Yvette Grandillo Jr.

Unfortunatly due to health issues Pete no longer competes or teaches. He is missed greatly as an instructor. He is a great friend and handler. Here is a video of Dawson and him at Sheltie Nationals 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYEbxue1bEg 






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MACH 4 Suntera Cammi Grandillo MXP MJP2 CD CGC TDI

Master Standard Preferred ~ AKC

September 19th, 2010

Peter & Yvette Grandillo Jr.






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MACH 5 Suntera Dawson Grandillo CGC, TDI

Master Agility Champion MACH 5 ~ AKC

September 5th, 2010

Peter & Yvette Grandillo Jr.






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85f8f6d0-ed7e-48ab-9050-09ab27bbb8f5
Y2:85f8f6d0-ed7e-48ab-9050-09ab27bbb8f5


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## lauren17

I think I'm in the same place as you right now. I want to get a puppy for agility since my aussie has arthritis so he's done with that. I want another aussie but I'm afraid I'll just compare the new dog to Boomer too much. I've been looking into shelties, but haven't found a breeder that I like yet. It would really have to be the right sheltie for me to get one. I would love a border collie but I'm still in an apartment so a small dog would be a better choice. I have been debating this for the past couple years and still can't make up my mind!


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## Laurelin

I'm honestly having a really hard time getting excited about the prospect of a sheltie at this point so I'm thinking of some other options. I'm still not sure what I'll end up doing. I really think I'm going to end up with a bigger breed (30-60 lb range). I'm not in an apartment so that does make things a bit easier but I'm still renting and would like to wait till I buy a house to get a bigger dog. I think I may regret going with another small dog because there's things I want to do that really require a bigger dog. Logically a sheltie is a great choice and a 'known' quantity but I'm not sure I can go with a breed I only kind of want. Gah, too complicated.

With BCs I'm having a hard time finding what I want in a breeder/dog combo to be honest. 

I'm still thinking and checking out the recommendations though for both breeds (and a few others).


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## boxerlover876

What about a female Boxer? Of course I'm biased, but try really do make god agility dogs. Females top out at about 60 lbs and are 21-23 inches. Don't know if that might be too big though.


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## Laurelin

I'm definitely not a boxer person at all. I like them but couldn't see myself owning one ever.


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## boxerlover876

Understandable, Boxers are definitely unique. Although Duke is quite laid back. Just curious, what are you looking for out of this dog?


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## Laurelin

Agility and a pet mainly. Something that will enjoy doing things like hiking and frisbee or ball playing and then would amuse me with my agility games. I want something I don't have to really work to ramp up and work with me. I want some biddability and drive/desire to work built in. I don't care if the dog is superfast but want a dog that enjoys the game and enjoys training. The dogs that walk the course and have little interest are not for me. I think I am too green for some of the highest dogs though. I would LOVE a disc dog even just for playing around the house. And would love a water dog but it's not totally necessary. I'm also interested in stock work/herding trials to some degree but that would be a new frontier and more of an 'icing on the cake'.

Basically something that will go and have fun being active and training but will also chill at home, or learn to chill at home. I don't mind instilling an off switch or waiting till maturity- Mia didn't come with one naturally. I don't want pacing 24/7 or circling or a dog that can't settle at all. There's also the fact that I'm a young, single girl that lives alone so something with a decent bark and a little more size than the 7 lb dogs would be good. 

I like dogs that aren't everyone's best friend and tend to differentiate between their owner and strangers. But I want confidence, not shyness. Of my two now, one is a people-lover to the obnoxious point and the other can be a little on the timid side. I have dealt with extreme shyness/fearfulness (my last sheltie) and don't want that again. I can deal with the range but IDEALLY the dog would be aloof/ignore but tolerate most strangers.

My dog experience since being an older teen/adult has been papillons (7) and shelties (3). I very much favor herding breeds in general though some sporting types are growing on me too. I would like to go back to the herding group for this dog. I think our personalities mesh best. I have not ever picked a breed on my own, the shelties we got because my mom wouldn't let me get a collie so they were a compromise. My mom also chose papillons and then I continued on with them because of apartment living and weight limits. 

This is if the dog is my ideal, which I know is a tall order and I don't expect to get everything of course. So basically- Mia with about 30 lbs added on, a little more level headedness, and quite a bit more confidence. Oh and sound knees hopefully...


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## boxerlover876

A corgi is small, but from knowing a few it seems like they would fiit well.


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## hamandeggs

I think you're describing a BC. 

Alternatively, what about a Toller? Or one of the versatile hunting dog breeds (Wirehaired Pointing Griffon, GWP, GSP)? I know you say herding not sporting, but these are a little off the beaten path (i.e. not Labs). Several people at my agility club run dogs like that. My parents have a Griff and I do think he would have been a good agility dog, and the breed doesn't have too many health problems. He is also one of the more bomb-proof dogs I know, without much effort by my parents to make him that way. Female griffs are around 55 pounds; males and GSPs/GWPs are a bit bigger. Keep hunting!


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## Laurelin

I like Cardis quite a bit but... they're short. And usually kind of slow on the course. They seem like fun though and I could see myself with one for a bit of a change of pace one day but probably not as a 'primary dog' if that makes sense. Pemmies, I'm not a big fan of.

And tollers... this is one breed that comes up again and again for me from friends. I like them a lot from reading about them. I've not seen any in action, only at conformation shows, though. I like the look quite a bit too. They're a breed I like but don't feel drawn to much. I need to meet some more.

Most pointers aren't my kind of dog at all lol.

I like BCs a ton obviously.

I've considered: border collie, aussie, toller, sheltie, cardi, pyr shep, belgian (fluffy), english shepherd... I can't think of any more... I also have a secret crush on sporty goldens in agility but am not sure they have the right kind of temperament for me as a pet. But I love watching them run.


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## hamandeggs

Griffs might be called "pointing," but I don't think they're anything like the houndy-type hunting dogs I think of as a "pointer." They're also nothing like Vizslas. But obviously it's your thing! 

My parents' neighbors have had several tollers that they run in agility with. I've never seen them competing (only in their backyard), but they are wonderful dogs. They also make all kinds of funny noises.


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## kafkabeetle

Have you thought about a North American Shepherd at all? I know there are differences between border collies (your ideal) and Aussies (and I'm not well-versed in the differences between NAS and Aussies) but it sounds like the best compromise for what you want off the top of my head. They seem like a herding breed with most of the qualities you're looking for, but are a bit on the small side. Sydney's only 20 pounds (NAS size and still acceptable for most apartments) and she has a fairly low bark. Obviously nothing like a much larger dog, but definitely more intimidating than most Papillons I've heard. Anyway, just a thought.


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## Pawzk9

kafkabeetle said:


> Have you thought about a North American Shepherd at all? I know there are differences between border collies (your ideal) and Aussies (and I'm not well-versed in the differences between NAS and Aussies) but it sounds like the best compromise for what you want off the top of my head. They seem like a herding breed with most of the qualities you're looking for, but are a bit on the small side. Sydney's only 20 pounds (NAS size and still acceptable for most apartments) and she has a fairly low bark. Obviously nothing like a much larger dog, but definitely more intimidating than most Papillons I've heard. Anyway, just a thought.


Guessing what is now called Miniature American Shepherd? Temperaments are fairly inconsistent. It's hard (but not impossible) to find a breeder who is doing MAS right, and they don't seem to be that competitive in sports.


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## kafkabeetle

Pawzk9 said:


> Guessing what is now called Miniature American Shepherd? Temperaments are fairly inconsistent. It's hard (but not impossible) to find a breeder who is doing MAS right, and they don't seem to be that competitive in sports.


Sorry, that was just a complete mistake on my part. Yes, I meant Miniature American Shepherd. I figured there had to be some major hitch regarding them or they would have been brought up immediately. Superficially (to a novice) they sound perfect. Thank you for the correction.


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## Laurelin

I've thought about a MAS actually and have trained with some in agility in Texas. They were either pretty well along the lines I wanted, although a touch small or they were nothing like what I wanted. There was one in class I would have scooped up in an instant but she was little. One of the girls was a breeder. Mostly they were all over the place in terms of temperament and even size. I haven't done terribly much research into them.

If it comes down to it, I'd rather get a less competitive agility dog that fit my other criteria though. I don't want to get a sheltie just because they are very competitive. The more I think about it, the more I am not sure it's the right choice this time, even if I do miss mine a lot.

I think I overanalyze everything.


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## Pawzk9

kafkabeetle said:


> Sorry, that was just a complete mistake on my part. Yes, I meant Miniature American Shepherd. I figured there had to be some major hitch regarding them or they would have been brought up immediately. Superficially (to a novice) they sound perfect. Thank you for the correction.


Not really that much of a mistake. North American Shepherd was one of the names under consideration. I think they went with Miniature instead so they wouldn't have to re-do the initials of their organization.


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## Laurelin

I keep thinking and I really do want at least a 30 lb dog. 30-50 lbs is pretty ideal. 

Rosie was a giant sheltie at 35 lbs but Trey was just 18 lbs and pretty small.


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## beardiedawg

How about a bearded collie? They fit all your criteria. My last dog was a beardie and she was great.


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## kafkabeetle

Laurelin said:


> I keep thinking and I really do want at least a 30 lb dog. 30-50 lbs is pretty ideal.
> 
> Rosie was a giant sheltie at 35 lbs but Trey was just 18 lbs and pretty small.


Wouldn't a border collie work, then?


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## Laurelin

Beardies are too much hair. I like a coated dog but also pretty wash and wear. Shelties are pushing the amount of hair.



kafkabeetle said:


> Wouldn't a border collie work, then?


Size wise they would be perfect. But I am having a hard time finding a BC breeder I'm comfortable with, doing the things I want to see, and that will allow me to play in AKC with a dog they produce. There's a couple promising breeders out there but I haven't met dogs from them before. Not sure if that's something I am ok doing. I've also gotten a lot of conflicting info on BC breeders and the kinds of dogs they've produced and temperaments. I also work full time and really do need a dog that can 'turn off'. A good BC is impossible to beat for me but the breeders I know of around here that I've met dogs from are producing very varied dogs. I may love one and then the next has a pretty sketchy temperament.


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## jenz

Hi Laurelin,

I'm coming into the conversation a bit late but have you looked at the herding breeds in the FSS (Foundation Stock Service)? They are dogs that are "in the hopper" to get into the AKC but not quite there yet. I believe they can compete at performance events but not conformation (?). A few of the smaller/medium ones- the Appenzeller (I guess more of a drover than herder, though), Danish Farm Dog, Lancasher Heeler, Mudi, Pumi, Lapphund, and one that starts with a "Sch" that looks kind of like a PON.

It might be fun to start with a FFS dog--new to the country, coming into their own. 

Jen


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## Laurelin

Mudik are kind of interesting but I'm not terribly interested in any of those breeds. As far as newer breeds go I like pyr sheps and Icelandics are intriguing too. Not sure if I'd own an Icelandic though.


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## Nev Allen

Laurelin, You have definetely described the attributes of a BC and if you pick anything else you are going to find it wanting in some areas.

Stick with the BC but do your research. Go to as many dog training clubs and different Agility comps as you can get arond to and talk to BC owners. Get the names of the breeders and talk to them.

Check if the breeder will select which dog you will be given, or if you get to see the litter and do the selection. In my experience there is always a cross section in temprements in all litters and if you want a good working dog you need the dog that runs to you ahead of the pack.

Stand and watch quietly and see which one is more active and which one just sits in a corner. Then call them and see if any come to you. Check with the breeder to see if you have picked the active pup correctly.

Qualifications behind the dogs name really do not mean an awfull lot when you come to doing sporting things with your dog so you do not need to buy from a top champion breeder. Muts have won championships before.


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## MrsBoats

Nev Allen said:


> Qualifications behind the dogs name really do not mean an awfull lot when you come to doing sporting things with your dog so you do not need to buy from a top champion breeder. Muts have won championships before.


I tend to disagree with that. If you are looking for a specific breed to do performance with, you would like to make sure the dog comes from proven working dogs. I've had a rottweiler who was a rescue and he was a dud for working. He had no drive and I cheerleaded him through everything we did. He was one of the reasons I sought out working rottweiler lines for Lars. If you are an experienced dog trainer/handler and can see the glimmers of working greatness in a rescue or a mutt...then go for making that dog your team mate. Personally, I would like to know what's behind a puppy and if the cards are stacked in their favor for biddability, drive to work, and a stable temperament to do the work effectively. 

Lars' breeder chose Lars for me....I didn't chose him. The breeder knows their puppies better than anyone because they have observed and watched them for 8 weeks. They know what makes them who they are more than the prospective puppy buyer who has seen them once or maybe twice. She nailed it when she allowed me to take him home. I will always defer to our breeder to choose the puppy that she thinks will be a good match for my household and my goals. If someone is looking for a puppy that will be more than a pet, they really should let the breeder chose the puppy for them. 

Laurelin, what about a Swedish Vallhund?? They apparently are fantastic little workers and I am seeing them more and more at the agility trials. They looks like a GSD with a corgi body. If I couldn't handle Rotties anymore, I would consider them.


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## Laurelin

I like vallhunds from reading about them but haven't met them. I love cardis but am not a pemmie fan really. I can see myself with a cardi as a 'side dog' one day. But I think I want something a little taller this time. lol Especially as I become more and more interested in having a frisbee dog.

I am sure I will have border collies in my life eventually.


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## RaeganW

You really need to meet some Tollers. They fit a lot of what you want in a dog, but you need to meet some to get a read on their energy. It's more herding dog than sporting dog, but they aren't Border Collies or Goldens (although there are reports of a small number of dogs that have been used as chore dogs on hobby farms).

All the breeders I know are in the upper midwest, and a larger and heavier (20ish inches and 55-60 pounds) dog seems to vogue, but there are people out there producing itty bitty agility dogs. I'm almost certain there is a professional trainer in Texas that takes Tollers.


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## PatchworkRobot

Laurelin said:


> Mudik are kind of interesting but I'm not terribly interested in any of those breeds. As far as newer breeds go I like pyr sheps and *Icelandics are intriguing too*. Not sure if I'd own an Icelandic though.


They're super fun.
















Just sayin'


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## Laurelin

Reagan, any good toller links? I like the sound of them and like the look but just can't feel any connection to the breed at all. I've never seen one live in action though, just in conformation shows so maybe that's it. They sound really close to what I like though.

How spitzy are Icelandics. I've looked at them some as mainly an alternative to a sheltie. I think they're really cute.


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## PatchworkRobot

Laurelin said:


> How spitzy are Icelandics. I've looked at them some as mainly an alternative to a sheltie. I think they're really cute.


Please realize where my answer is coming from... I haven't spent much time with spitzy dogs other than the dogs I"ve met in daycare plus Ruthie is my first Icie and the only other ones I"ve met are her sire, damn, aunt, and a sibling or two.

In my experience Ruthie and her breeder's dogs are a little less independent than most of the spitz dogs that I've met. Ruthie likes to know where I am just about all the time (a quality that I like in a dog). She is also quite biddable. According to her breeder, all of her Icies have been this way. The breed is known to be quite talkative but Ruthie picked up on the "house is a quiet place" concept rarely quickly. She can also climb just about anything - a breed trait it seems. They seem to get along great with other dogs, in general, and are great with people and children too.


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