# Unbelievable way to stop dog from jumping up



## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Just a quick background - when I take Henry for a walk the people we meet ignore him (and usually me too, even if I say Hello - it's not a nice neighbourhood) and he so wants to say Hi, so when someone does show him the slightest bit of interest he jumps all over them, and we tell them to turn their back and tell him down, which he will comply with.
So, we met with a pet-sitter and because they showed interest Henry jumped up to greet them - their response was to knee him in the chest and they said we should do it repeatedly to stop him. I was so shocked that I ignored my first instinct which was to grab him and run, and instead said that I preferred to turn my back on him and tell him down.
Seriously where do people get these ideas from, and please tell me it's not the way it should be done.


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

I actually had a friend do this to Alannah when he came over to our house once she was still a puppy. We were working on the "off" command, but she still typically jumped up at least once when someone would come into our house. Before I could even tell her off, he kneed her in the chest, sent her backwards onto the floor, and scared the crap out of her. Alannah is relatively soft....and she stayed away from him the rest of the time he was there. 

So no, in my opinion, it is not ok in the slightest. I would just continue to work on an off/down command, and I would call that pet-sitter and let he/she know the exact reason why they will not be sitting for your pet. Nice first impression. 

Actually, I'm glad that happened at your first meeting in a way. So at least you won't hire this person to be with your dog unsupervised, with you unknowing.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It's a common method. Sad to say, I used it on my first dog . And it didn't work at all . She would get right up and jump on you again. Can't say I've ever seen it work on any dog, but I suppose there's some satisfaction in thinking you "did something about it". I think a lot of dog training books recommend it, I can't remember where I learned about it first.

I'm OK with putting your knee up before the dog gets to you to keep yourself from being knocked down, but kneeing a dog in the chest is the same as kicking the dog and I can't condone that anymore.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I've heard the knee in the chest method from several people. Some people use it as a way to throw the dog off-balance as they jump; some do it to physically hurt the dog. Either way, I don't like it.

I _love_ going to our training club because everyone there is well versed in turning their back to a jumping dog. I just wish everyone were so helpful. I hate the people who say, "Oh, it doesn't matter if she jumps on me;" I feel like replying, "Well it matters _to me_." Unfortunately, I'm not that assertive.


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Kayla_Nicole said:


> I actually had a friend do this to Alannah when he came over to our house once she was still a puppy. We were working on the "off" command, but she still typically jumped up at least once when someone would come into our house. Before I could even tell her off, he kneed her in the chest, sent her backwards onto the floor, and scared the crap out of her. Alannah is relatively soft....and she stayed away from him the rest of the time he was there.
> 
> So no, in my opinion, it is not ok in the slightest. I would just continue to work on an off/down command, and I would call that pet-sitter and let he/she know the exact reason why they will not be sitting for your pet. Nice first impression.
> 
> *Actually, I'm glad that happened at your first meeting in a way. So at least you won't hire this person to be with your dog unsupervised, with you unknowing.*


Yes - I'm actually glad that I saw it so I could make the decision. I'm kicking myself because I didn't just leave, although the fact that I suggested the off / down was more acceptable and they disagreed just makes the decision not to use them even clearer.
I just really can't see how someone can say they love dogs then behave in that way :frusty:


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

The knee to the chest was pretty much the standard way to get a dog to stop jumping up 15 years ago. When my dogs growing up were young, this is the only method I remember hearing about. I don't think we ever tried it.

Kneeing Watson in the chest is an invitation to jump up harder and faster, with teeth. lol The more "aggressive" you act with him, the more he thinks he's an intense wrestling game and he amps up his play. So it's either going to scare the dog, or just be completely ineffective.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Yeah this is a trick that got popular by Marley and Me. It's what their dominance-method trainer told them to do.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

HollowHeaven said:


> Yeah this is a trick that got popular by Marley and Me. It's what their dominance-method trainer told them to do.


It was common long before then, though. When I was growing up, it was the standard way to teach a dog not to jump.

Now, I only do it to prevent a very large dog from knocking me down. At that point, I do what I need to do to protect myself. But yeah, then I'm not even attempting to use it as a training method. I find having the dog sit or putting them in a down much more effective and not letting them have attention from the person until they are either sitting or down.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

HollowHeaven said:


> Yeah this is a trick that got popular by Marley and Me. It's what their dominance-method trainer told them to do.


This was the standard advice long before Marley and Me came out.


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## Solstitialis (Sep 9, 2012)

This is standard advice, and works great for some dogs. 

If your methods of turning your back on her worked, your dog wouldn't be jumping all over people still. 

There's nothing wrong with verbal corrections and discipline. Not getting a cookie or not getting attention are not adequate motivation for all dogs to stop doing something they love doing. 

The knee in the chest method can backfire with lots of adolescent/hyper dogs who just think its a delightful game and jump harder and get mouthy and just get overly amped up.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I also remember hearing this before, but I can't remember from where. I used to watch a few different dog training shows on TV when I was a kid so maybe that's where I remember it from.

Although, I don't remember it as 'knee the dog in the chest' as though you were kicking them but rather as 'hold your knee up to make it harder for them to jump/discourage them'.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Solstitialis said:


> This is standard advice, and works great for some dogs.
> 
> *If your methods of turning your back on her worked, your dog wouldn't be jumping all over people still.*
> 
> ...


This is kind of silly. All techniques take time to sink in, even moreso for those that are teaching the dog to go against something that comes so automatically for them to do.


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## Solstitialis (Sep 9, 2012)

ireth0 said:


> This is kind of silly. All techniques take time to sink in, even moreso for those that are teaching the dog to go against something that comes so automatically for them to do.


All I can say, is I have seen people who vehemently defend positive ONLY training and chastise anyone who uses corrections at all as being abusive, a lazy trainer etc. 

However, people who appropriately use corrections get much faster results. I've seen those positive only trained dogs who will jump all over strangers when they're well past 3 years old and should absolutely know better.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Solstitialis said:


> All I can say, is I have seen people who vehemently defend positive ONLY training and chastise anyone who uses corrections at all as being abusive, a lazy trainer etc.
> 
> However, people who appropriately use corrections get much faster results. I've seen those positive only trained dogs who will jump all over strangers when they're well past 3 years old and should absolutely know better.


I don't think anyone would disagree that using corrections gets faster results. However, that doesn't always make it a better method, depending on the dog and the trainer.

I would argue that a 3 year old dog who still jumps excessively hasn't been properly trained, regardless of the method that was attempting to be used. Basically, I wouldn't put the blame on positive reinforcement training, I would put the blame on the owner for not properly using the techniques.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> I don't think anyone would disagree that using corrections gets faster results. However, that doesn't always make it a better method, depending on the dog and the trainer.
> 
> I would argue that a 3 year old dog who still jumps excessively hasn't been properly trained, regardless of the method that was attempting to be used. Basically, I wouldn't put the blame on positive reinforcement training, I would put the blame on the owner for not properly using the techniques.


Nicely said.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> I don't think anyone would disagree that using corrections gets faster results. However, that doesn't always make it a better method, depending on the dog and the trainer.
> 
> I would argue that a 3 year old dog who still jumps excessively hasn't been properly trained, regardless of the method that was attempting to be used. Basically, I wouldn't put the blame on positive reinforcement training, I would put the blame on the owner for not properly using the techniques.


I agree with this. I also do think that, with some dogs, jumping is a safety issue and, depending on their growth rate, it can become one of those problems that needs to be stopped ASAP or someone could get hurt. With Sam, I find keeping him leashed when we greet people and working on rock solid down and sit commands has been enough, but if he still jumped at this point, I would be considering more aversive methods, but they'd likely be more leash corrections and not kneeing him. It helps that really big dogs really don't HAVE to jump to be at a level where they are right there. LOL! Just by standing and getting close to people, they're hard to ignore. I think smaller dogs are more apt to jump because the petting hands can be further away.


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Solstitialis said:


> This is standard advice, and works great for some dogs.
> 
> *If your methods of turning your back on her worked, your dog wouldn't be jumping all over people still.*
> 
> ...


Yeah - he's 5 months old and I haven't trained him not to jump up yet - maybe I should be kneeing myself in the chest for such appalling progress 
Or maybe it's because my dog is a he not she............


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

mcdavis said:


> Yeah - he's 5 months old and I haven't trained him not to jump up yet - maybe I should be kneeing myself in the chest for such appalling progress
> Or maybe it's because my dog is a he not she............


I'm also doubting your puppy is knocking down old ladies left and right, causing broken hips.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

I disagree with kneeing a dog in the chest. But honestly I'm almost at my wit's end with Pepper. She jumps all over anyone she meets. If she's on leash it's even worse. She's getting slightly better with me, but still with strangers it's horrible.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

ireth0 said:


> *I don't think anyone would disagree that using corrections gets faster results.* However, that doesn't always make it a better method, depending on the dog and the trainer.
> 
> I would argue that a 3 year old dog who still jumps excessively hasn't been properly trained, regardless of the method that was attempting to be used. Basically, I wouldn't put the blame on positive reinforcement training, I would put the blame on the owner for not properly using the techniques.


I'll be contrary... I don't think corrections means you'll get faster results. It depends on the dog and what you are training. I cannot think of a way to really incorporate corrections to train what I train.

Of course I have some of those badly behaved cookie trained dogs so.... *shrug*


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Jen2010 said:


> I disagree with kneeing a dog in the chest. But honestly I'm almost at my wit's end with Pepper. She jumps all over anyone she meets. If she's on leash it's even worse. She's getting slightly better with me, but still with strangers it's horrible.


Have tried stepping in the leash so that jumping is not possible? Standing should be comfortable, jumping up would be impossible because of the length of the leash. 

Or you could work on a go to place command. Or a really, really solid sit. 

Bae only jumps on me and we're working on a go to place. Everyone else sucks to him so they aren't worth jumping on usually.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Ugh, one of the barns I worked for had a boarder who always brought their obnoxious bouvier to the barn. The dog would flatten kids, bark and nip at the horses, and jump all over anyone. The owner would say, just stand still, while she called and called, and searched her pockets for a treat. The jumping didn't improve, and she began nipping at hands and your face. I would ignore her and go about chores, but had enough after a month of this. I took the dog by the collar, said a firm "OFF!" and led the dog in a circle, put her in a sit, and returned to chores. The owner was horrified! I was not going to be nipped in the face by this spoiled brat.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Jen2010 said:


> I disagree with kneeing a dog in the chest. But honestly I'm almost at my wit's end with Pepper. She jumps all over anyone she meets. If she's on leash it's even worse. She's getting slightly better with me, but still with strangers it's horrible.


 


RabbleFox said:


> Have tried stepping in the leash so that jumping is not possible? Standing should be comfortable, jumping up would be impossible because of the length of the leash.
> 
> Or you could work on a go to place command. Or a really, really solid sit.
> 
> Bae only jumps on me and we're working on a go to place. Everyone else sucks to him so they aren't worth jumping on usually.


Have you tried working with a partner (or several partners) using the standard withdrawal attention method or any of the techniques listed by RabbleFox? I think that sometimes - especially for issues like this - you really need to set up scenarios to train and practice good behavior. I need to do this with my dog, but don't have a partner who can follow directions. She's going to be one of those 3-year-old dogs who still jumps because almost everyone we meet reinforces the behavior.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

> Have tried stepping in the leash so that jumping is not possible? Standing should be comfortable, jumping up would be impossible because of the length of the leash.
> 
> Or you could work on a go to place command. Or a really, really solid sit.


Pepper weighs over 75lbs so standing on the leash is not an option unless I want to end up on the ground ;-) We've been working on getting her to sit before she's allowed to greet anyone. I even make her sit before I even open the door. This is mostly working with my husband and me, but not with anyone new. And as soon as she's allowed to get up it's back to the jumping up. She just gets SO excited around people! I'm still hoping she'll grow out of it (she's 11 months old). But I honestly did not expect this issue with a Rottweiler/Boxer mix. We kind of expected her to be a bit more stand-off ish.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> This was the standard advice long before Marley and Me came out.


I had never ever heard of it until then. Push the dog off, but not karate chop it in the chest.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

> Have you tried working with a partner (or several partners) using the standard withdrawal attention method or any of the techniques listed by RabbleFox? I think that sometimes - especially for issues like this - you really need to set up scenarios to train and practice good behavior. I need to do this with my dog, but don't have a partner who can follow directions. She's going to be one of those 3-year-old dogs who still jumps because almost everyone we meet reinforces the behavior.


I think the "withdrawal attention method" could work with Pepper, but unfortunately I don't really know many people (especially ones that I can train to help). I live far away from all family and friends and I work in a small office. I have been looking into hiring a trainer to help specifically with this issue, but it's pretty expensive. I'm still hopeful that she'll calm down over the winter. I might also try the "go to" command. It's definitely worth a shot!

We've been using "down" as the command to not jump up, but I'm thinking of changing it to "off". She might be confused by what "down" means since we say it a lot, but she doesn't usually do it. Any thoughts on that idea?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

HollowHeaven said:


> I had never ever heard of it until then. Push the dog off, but not karate chop it in the chest.


I had. In act it was standard way back in the 80s, and I remember being taught it as a kid to deal with an overly enthusiastic dog at my grandpas. It was just Done.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Am I the only one who's seen dogs with cracked and broken ribs because of a knee to the chest using this method?

Anyone who knees my dog in the chest gets a knee to the chest. I will not risk that damage.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Flaming said:


> Am I the only one who's seen dogs with cracked and broken ribs because of a knee to the chest using this method?
> 
> Anyone who knees my dog in the chest gets a knee to the chest. I will not risk that damage.


I would no way do it now, but I've actually never seen an injury from it. Probably from sheer luck.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

CptJack said:


> I would no way do it now, but I've actually never seen an injury from it. Probably from sheer luck.


I guess seeing were I did do some volunteer work at shelters and part time at vets on the east coast (I didn't even know about positive training until I moved west) I might have seen more of it. Same with some other injuries due to heavy handedness and negative reinforcement. I've seen on an x-ray a broken sternum a few times on a dog as well. This method is capable of doing some pretty bad damage. 

Also most owners (as of 2006-2008) won't spend the money to fix the dog when it breaks ribs or sternum so most of those cases I saw were also euth cases.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

I've seen the knee to the chest....I don't like it, though I do admit to raising my knee up to fend off Caeda once or twice....though it wasn't with the purpose of hitting her in the chest, it was more of a block. 
There was an interesting one I saw a friend of mine do to Caeda. She jumped up on him, he grabbed her paws and pushed them down to the ground hard....not hard enough to hurt her, just hard enough to overcome her upwards momentum. She was completely stunned, and stood there for a second with her front paws apart with this look on her face like "what just happened?". It was kind of funny. Not something that I would think was ok with a small dog, but Caeda was about a year at that time, sturdy and seemed absolutely no worse for the wear, so I didn't make a big deal about it. It happened twice and she never jumped up on him again. 
It is kind of tough though when you have a dog you are trying to teach not to jump and if you turn your back they can still claw you above your butt....


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Speaking of jumping, I just had the most frustrating walk with Katie. We ran into a neighbor who encouraged Katie to jump all over her, lick her face, and generally act like a fool. The woman even knelt down so Katie could really get in her face. That encounter amped Katie up so that when we passed the barky dog around the corner, Katie was super agitated, trying to run around, barking, jumping, and, yes, acting like a maniac. I managed to trip over her, fall on the hip that's been bothering me and my "good" knee. It took all I had not to scream and then sob. What I really need to do is be more assertive with people who say, "it's ok if she jumps on me." Live and learn.



Jen2010 said:


> I think the "withdrawal attention method" could work with Pepper, but unfortunately I don't really know many people (especially ones that I can train to help). I live far away from all family and friends and I work in a small office. I have been looking into hiring a trainer to help specifically with this issue, but it's pretty expensive. I'm still hopeful that she'll calm down over the winter. I might also try the "go to" command. It's definitely worth a shot!
> 
> We've been using "down" as the command to not jump up, but I'm thinking of changing it to "off". She might be confused by what "down" means since we say it a lot, but she doesn't usually do it. Any thoughts on that idea?


We have a similar issue. We're pretty anti-social, so inviting people to the house to practice training isn't really appealing. Is there a pet store or a park where dog owners gather? They'd probably be willing to help.

I know that people have trained "off" to mean four paws on the ground, but I have no idea how it's done.



CptJack said:


> I had. In act it was standard way back in the 80s, and I remember being taught it as a kid to deal with an overly enthusiastic dog at my grandpas. It was just Done.





Flaming said:


> Am I the only one who's seen dogs with cracked and broken ribs because of a knee to the chest using this method?
> 
> Anyone who knees my dog in the chest gets a knee to the chest. I will not risk that damage.


I wonder if the way it's used makes a difference: lifting the knee before the dog makes contact so that he can't land on your chest with the intent of throwing him off balance vs lifting the knee as the dog makes contact with the intent of causing pain.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

LOL, I could have written "Marley and Me". Every. single. thing. in that book (I haven't seen the movie because it would be too hard), I experienced with Willow. Lots of bad, bad advice out there, and especially pertaining to a young Lab. Kicking a young Lab in the chest is not going to stop him/her from jumping. 

I totally wouldn't be surprised to know that a lot of dogs are injured by it. The book I had said you had to knee them hard enough to knock them down. . .yeah, I can see how that would easily crack a rib/sternum. 

But even if it did work I would never say that kicking a dog is justified.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

cookieface said:


> Speaking of jumping, I just had the most frustrating walk with Katie. We ran into a neighbor who *encouraged Katie to jump all over her, lick her face, and generally act like a fool.* The woman even knelt down so Katie could really get in her face. That encounter amped Katie up so that when we passed the barky dog around the corner, Katie was super agitated, trying to run around, barking, jumping, and, yes, acting like a maniac. I managed to trip over her, fall on the hip that's been bothering me and my "good" knee. It took all I had not to scream and then sob. What I really need to do is be more assertive with people who say, "it's ok if she jumps on me." Live and learn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


zOMG...I HATE THOSE PEOPLE!!!! I had a very nice couple walking in my neighborhood last night who first, made an unsolicited comment about my training and then, the next time we saw them, I was working on keeping Sam in a sit and focused on me and they stopped and encouraged him to come over and act like a ditz to them. I let it go because I could tell that they seemed like nice people, but it was irritating. I can't stand it when people say, "It's ok if he jumps on me, I like dogs, or he's just a puppy, etc." Ok, it's fine with you, but it's not ok WITH ME or with many people we come across, some of which are afraid of him.

Ugh...

I usually try to head it off and simply avoid people when we're out for a walk or training, but sometimes it just happens. It's about as charming as the people who tell my kids it's ok to do things I tell them not to. Grrrrr.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Flaming said:


> Anyone who knees my dog in the chest gets a knee to the chest. I will not risk that damage.


Yeah. I've got a rule, If you hit my dog, I will hit you the same way.

There's a big difference between shoving a dog off of you or blocking it and going kung fu on it


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

I'll be weird apparently and say that Knee to the chest doesn't bother me a bit and my knee will come up at ANY dog who jumps at me, I don't care who the dog belongs too. don't want your dog knee'd? don't let it jump on me. I will also kick my foot out backwards at any dog that tries to jump on me from behind. its self correcting, its like your you hold the dog up and hurl your knee into the dog, you just throw your knee up when the dog jumps so they collide with it. I have very rarely had this not work out of hundreds of dogs.not saying it stops jumping up, just that it stops jumping up on ME lol. I have no issue with "self corrections" in general. I do things all the time that COULD result in my dogs getting kicked or stepped on or something, but the only possible way that will happen is if they do something stupid. Rusty for example knows how to walk on a leash, but sometimes he decides he is going to walk right in front of my feet, like so that I have to alter my gait so heavily that I fall over..I respond by making a point of not altering my natural gait..so he moves.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I have rather large dogs and I am around people of all shapes, sizes and ages. I can't have my dogs jump on them. I begin training the minute I get the dog, whether it is a puppy or an adult rescue. Training starts the minute I get them and I do this by showing them, and asking them for responses that I want. If my dog jumps, I ask for a sit etc... Instead of spending so much time dwelling on what you don't want to do, ask him for something you do want him to do. 

Kneeing a dog in the chest has been around since before my time and I am old compared to many on this board. My parents used that type of training as that is what was common "back in the day" It might be effective for some but truth be told, I don't want to hurt my dog to get it to do something I could accomplish in a far friendlier way. 

Ignoring may work to some degree but I find that asking for a positive behavior is much easier and faster. The dog gets that where ignoring they don't get right away. Not that that is a bad way to go about it but I like easy for me and the dog. Training can be so much fun, I wish more people would see it as such and not as a chore or impossible task. Teaching a dog to "sit for petting" is such an easy thing and people will appreciate it.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Miss Bugs said:


> I'll be weird apparently and say that Knee to the chest doesn't bother me a bit and my knee will come up at ANY dog who jumps at me, I don't care who the dog belongs too. *don't want your dog knee'd? don't let it jump on me.* I will also kick my foot out backwards at any dog that tries to jump on me from behind. its self correcting, its like your you hold the dog up and hurl your knee into the dog, you just throw your knee up when the dog jumps so they collide with it. I have very rarely had this not work out of hundreds of dogs.not saying it stops jumping up, just that it stops jumping up on ME lol. I have no issue with "self corrections" in general. I do things all the time that COULD result in my dogs getting kicked or stepped on or something, but the only possible way that will happen is if they do something stupid. Rusty for example knows how to walk on a leash, but sometimes he decides he is going to walk right in front of my feet, like so that I have to alter my gait so heavily that I fall over..I respond by making a point of not altering my natural gait..so he moves.


I kinda feel that way. I mean, I personally wouldn't knee a dog in the chest. I know to turn my back and have no problem doing it. But I also won't blame someone for kneeing my dog*. Not everyone tolerates their legs scratched or sweaters ripped. It's MY responsibility to keep MY dog from jumping and/or to educate guests on how I'd like her jumping to be handled.

* = Gypsy doesn't jump up anymore, thank goodness, but if she did.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

When I first took my 4 month old pup to a trainer that was a judge for schutz and trainer and received multiple awards in 30 years told me to karate chop the hell out of the dog that jumped at me. I told him I don't have that issue with my dog. He went on and on saying well that's how he would do it and they learn real fast that way. I never went back and started researching clicker training and I have no regrets. I believe the jumpy hyper behavior is 100% owner's fault - letting it be an acceptable behavior or not knowing how to train the dog.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Miss Bugs said:


> I'll be weird apparently and say that Knee to the chest doesn't bother me a bit and my knee will come up at ANY dog who jumps at me, I don't care who the dog belongs too. don't want your dog knee'd? don't let it jump on me. I will also kick my foot out backwards at any dog that tries to jump on me from behind. its self correcting, its like your you hold the dog up and hurl your knee into the dog, you just throw your knee up when the dog jumps so they collide with it. I have very rarely had this not work out of hundreds of dogs.not saying it stops jumping up, just that it stops jumping up on ME lol. I have no issue with "self corrections" in general. I do things all the time that COULD result in my dogs getting kicked or stepped on or something, but the only possible way that will happen is if they do something stupid. Rusty for example knows how to walk on a leash, but sometimes he decides he is going to walk right in front of my feet, like so that I have to alter my gait so heavily that I fall over..I respond by making a point of not altering my natural gait..so he moves.


Holding your knee up so the dog jumps into it is one thing. Sort of being a a brick wall. . .if the dog wants to jump on a brick wall, oh well, right? It's a whole 'nother thing to bring your knee hard into the dog as he jumps, knocking him/her to the ground. That's the same as kicking, but probably more damaging. And that's what a lot of dog training books advocate.

Self-defense courses teach you to use your knees and elbows to hurt an attacker because you can do massive amounts of damage with those parts of your body.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Putting your knee up to stop them from jumping used to be the way it was done, also taking hold of their front feet and stepping on their back toes. I am not saying that is the way to go, just that many things used to be done with dogs that are changed now. How many of us "older" people were taught to housebreak a dog, you rubbed their nose in it or at least showed them what they had done even if you did not catch them doing it. The dogs did get housebroken and probably never saw a crate in their life.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

I had one of my dad's friends, a complete jerk, kick my dog down the hallway. He was just a puppy still and excited about new people. Apparently he was really bothering the guy so he literally kicked him and he slid down the hallway. I didn't see it but my mom came into my room and put my dog down on my bed and told me to keep him in there. Told me what happened, I was just about to go out and curse the guy out. My mom calmed me down, she was pretty upset about it herself though. 

I don't know what would make something think that kicking a small dog down a hallway is okay to do.... 

I usually will push a dog off me and stop giving it attention if it gets too excited and annoying. It's so hard with puppies though. My neighbor has the cutest little Kerry Blue Terrier and it was soo hard not to let her jump up all over me lol. When she gets bigger I'll be more then happy to not have her jump up on me though.

I would never use my knee to hit a dog jumping on me though. Maybe to block but never to actually knee the dog.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Kyllobernese said:


> Putting your knee up to stop them from jumping used to be the way it was done, also taking hold of their front feet and stepping on their back toes. I am not saying that is the way to go, just that many things used to be done with dogs that are changed now. How many of us "older" people were taught to housebreak a dog, you rubbed their nose in it or at least showed them what they had done even if you did not catch them doing it. The dogs did get housebroken and probably never saw a crate in their life.


This is all true.

I think, ultimately, it's a good thing that dogs are as smart as they are. As long as they can figure out what the crazy humans are trying to tell them, no matter what nutso methods are used, most dogs eventually figure it out. I think the most important part is simply being consistent and being actively involved with your dog. Not that modern methods aren't better, just that I think it proves that those two things are likely the most important no matter what methods you use.

And yeah, if a rude dog is allowed to jump on me, I'll block it however I can. It's up to the owner to keep their dog from jumping on me. By the same rationale, I don't expect others to put up with rude behavior from my dog without protecting themselves or their property. It's my job to keep my dog from jumping on them by keeping control of him.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Rude jumping is just one of those things that grinds my gears so to speak. I don't mind tiny dogs jumping so much- I'll admit Summer does but she's so light you can't feel it. Even still when meeting someone- especially kids I kneel down and hold her because she can be in your face. But once you get bigger- even just beagle sized (My roomie used to have a beagle that was so rude and rough that she would just shred your legs jumping on you with her claws), it starts to really annoy the crap out of me. Especially 65 + lbs. My neighbor's young golden was one of those dogs you couldn't get near because she was so wild and your arms and legs would be scratched to pieces. Of course they couldn't even walk her on a leash because she was so wild and then the cycle seemed to perpetuate... My grandparents got a bully breed mix (lab?) and she would just bowl them over. They're strong for elderly people but still elderly and she had no manners. So we taught her to sit to greet and it helped SO MUCH.

I've gotten griped at before but Nextdog is going to definitely be bigger- hopefully hovering around 30 lbs. So not huge but still big enough to need to know not to jump. Nextdog will definitely be taught not to jump unless invited. I will probably go the sit route.

I've seen people use their knees to body block a dog and that doesn't bug me at all. Never seen anyone haul off and knee the dog in any way that would actually hurt the dog.


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Oh, this was definitely not a case of using the knee to block the dog, but encouraging the dog to jump up then kneeing it to push it over. It was in the pet-sitters home and they insisted that I take the lead off and let him wander round as soon as we arrived, although my preference was to keep him with me. They had another dog staying that was encouraged to run around with him, so he was somewhat over-excited, and it was a small space. Suffice to say he won't be returning.

At home if people visit we've always put the dog on a lead and kept him with us until the people have settled in then he's allowed to go and say hello - some people do encourage the dog to jump up but we discourage it. With the last dog when we met children we would kneel down and hold the dog so they could say hello, and we plan to do the same with this one. He'll only be around 20lbs when fully grown, but lively.


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## jersey_gray (Dec 8, 2011)

Flaming said:


> Am I the only one who's seen dogs with cracked and broken ribs because of a knee to the chest using this method?
> 
> Anyone who knees my dog in the chest gets a knee to the chest. I will not risk that damage.


Your not supposed to viciously knee the dog, just block it so you don't get knocked down by a big unruly dog.I t's what I was always told and have done, rarely, in the past. Doesn't necessarily stop the jumping but can keep you from being knocked down. No, I don't go around just kneeing dogs and slapping their noses to get them away but it is still commonly done by people. Old ways die hard.


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## jersey_gray (Dec 8, 2011)

mcdavis said:


> Oh, this was definitely not a case of using the knee to block the dog, but encouraging the dog to jump up then kneeing it to push it over. It was in the pet-sitters home and they insisted that I take the lead off and let him wander round as soon as we arrived, although my preference was to keep him with me. They had another dog staying that was encouraged to run around with him, so he was somewhat over-excited, and it was a small space. Suffice to say he won't be returning.
> 
> At home if people visit we've always put the dog on a lead and kept him with us until the people have settled in then he's allowed to go and say hello - some people do encourage the dog to jump up but we discourage it. With the last dog when we met children we would kneel down and hold the dog so they could say hello, and we plan to do the same with this one. He'll only be around 20lbs when fully grown, but lively.


Well that's just not right at all! You don't encourage a behaviour then punish the poor animal for it.


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## Kudzu (Aug 15, 2013)

I consulted a trainer last year to address my lab's jumping up. He's just too big and too old to be jumping up like that. We easily taught him from a very early age not to jump on us using the attention withdrawal method, but that didn't seem to carry over to other people. He loves people so much, he just gets so excited to greet just about anyone who shows the slightest interest. He's quite good about keeping paws on the floor with any person who greets him calmly, but so many greet him with squealy voices and that gets him all charged up.

Anyway, what the trainer did was play the part of the squealing excited stranger, and when Beau would go to jump up, he got a light leash correction from me, and we walked away and came back for a repeat of the same scenario. By the fourth or so time, Beau approached in a friendly manner but didn't jump, and got all sorts of quiet praise and lovies from both me and the trainer. After he was consistently not jumping under those circumstances, the trainer added tapping his chest to try and entice Beau to jump, which is what some of my neighbors would often do when greeting Beau (mostly men) because for some crazy reason they liked it when he jumped up. Anyway, same thing, a light correction and walk away. When he was able to consistently ignore the chest tapping and greet on all fours in exchange for hugs and kisses, we were done for the session. What was needed then was to do this same routine with multiple other people to teach that this applies to all humans, not just that trainer. We move around a bit, so I seldom have anyone like that I can work with, so I just used the random squealing strangers we would meet in the park or on the streets. He has greatly improved in his greeting etiquette. Not perfect, but much better.

I'm really not a fan of leash corrections and I wouldn't allow the trainer to put a choke chain on Beau, so we just used his flat collar. But I must say, the method worked well and was a good approach for us, since I could never seem to elicit any cooperation from others in terms of turning their backs, ignoring, or even just greeting him calmly. Beau is a tough dog with a seemingly high pain threshold. I've accidentally stepped on his paws, tripped over him, collided with him during play and he never even blinks, so for him, those light corrections seemed to be nothing more than a minor annoyance and he was no worse for wear. He seemed to be quite smitten with the trainer by the time we left. Of course, each dog is different.....my other dog is way more sensitive and a simple correction like that would ruin his whole day. But fortunately, that dog likes to greet people by smelling their shoes, so would never need correcting. 

Anyway, what I liked about the method is that all the erratic behavior from strangers ends up cuing the dog to greet on all fours in response to excited greetings. Which removes the need for human co-operation, which seems so hard to induce, at least for me. 

And no, I would never knee a dog in the chest intentionally.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Don't know about anyone else, but I have visions of people doing The Karate Kid one-legged flamingo thing while a 100 lb dog hurtles towards them at full force. I honestly can't see how that would work, effectively and safely, unless of course one has been expertly trained in retaining one's balance during assault. Just seems like so much potential for the victim to fall over and sustain injury to themselves. Which would kind of be a case of damned if you do damned if you don't, or perhaps even irony.

Someone mentioned holding the paws. At least that would allow the victim to keep both feet firmly planted. In 'the old days' this was a popular technique - 
*hold both front paws tightly as soon as dog jumps up, 
*divert gaze away from the dog and ignore,
*continue to converse normally and calmly with the dog's owner, 
*allow the dog to struggle and attempt to pull paws away, for 5 or 10 seconds of duration, so as to create mild discomfort, 
*then release paws and continue ignoring dog / conversing with owner. 
Repeat as needed until if and when dog finally gets the message.

To be clear, I'm not advocating either method, but imo the latter would at least provide a larger margin of safety for the victim as compared to the former. Frankly I'm glad times have changed and these have fallen from popularity in favour of gentler, more positive techniques. 






Inga said:


> Teaching a dog to "sit for petting" is such an easy thing and people will appreciate it.


...not only sit for petting, but eventually sit to receive _excited praise_ - which most dog-loving people are prone to give. Easy to counter-condition with well-timed, mega-value treats. 
(^ wow, that's a whole bunch of hyphens right there, lol)


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Pyrs are famous for their Pyr hugs.
And how do they hug??? They jump up because they are so happy to see you and hug you... why all the pics of Pyrs hugging another human while both standing.

I still cannot totally break Roman of it... but he does better after I break his hug routine with either a sit and run tricks routine or...
I dance the night away with him... waltz and waltz lover boi.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> Rude jumping is just one of those things that grinds my gears so to speak. I don't mind tiny dogs jumping so much- I'll admit Summer does but she's so light you can't feel it. Even still when meeting someone- especially kids I kneel down and hold her because she can be in your face. But once you get bigger- even just beagle sized (My roomie used to have a beagle that was so rude and rough that she would just shred your legs jumping on you with her claws), it starts to really annoy the crap out of me. Especially 65 + lbs. My neighbor's young golden was one of those dogs you couldn't get near because she was so wild and your arms and legs would be scratched to pieces. Of course they couldn't even walk her on a leash because she was so wild and then the cycle seemed to perpetuate... My grandparents got a bully breed mix (lab?) and she would just bowl them over. They're strong for elderly people but still elderly and she had no manners. So we taught her to sit to greet and it helped SO MUCH.
> 
> I've gotten griped at before but Nextdog is going to definitely be bigger- hopefully hovering around 30 lbs. So not huge but still big enough to need to know not to jump. Nextdog will definitely be taught not to jump unless invited. I will probably go the sit route.
> 
> I've seen people use their knees to body block a dog and that doesn't bug me at all. Never seen anyone haul off and knee the dog in any way that would actually hurt the dog.


I'm there with you Laurelin. This is lab/retriever mix at our dog park that jumps on me every single time I go into the park. He's about 60 lbs and his owners never do anything but say "Hey get off!" I always have to push him with some force on his chest to get him off me. It's just irritating because it's fall now here and the park is always muddy, so I end up covered in mud. He does it while I'm sitting down too. I don't have a lot of patience for large jumping dogs.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

There's a difference between kneeing a dog in the chest (which may result in injury) and allowing a dog to bounce off your knee (which keeps the dog at a distance and removes the satisfaction he derives from jumping).

Like any technique, it works better on some dogs than others, and better for some trainers than others. My recently departed Golden was such a lunatic--and lightning fast--that I came up with the "Ministry of Silly Walks" method. Look it up on YouTube if you've never heard of it. Basically, I would pick up my knees and jut out my feet randomly ina all directions. The pup coul never get a fix on what I was going to do next and he would ultimately sit down and look at me like I was daffy. I'd reward that and he caught on PDQ.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

Kudzu said:


> Anyway, what the trainer did was play the part of the squealing excited stranger, and when Beau would go to jump up, he got a light leash correction from me, and we walked away and came back for a repeat of the same scenario. By the fourth or so time, Beau approached in a friendly manner but didn't jump, and got all sorts of quiet praise and lovies from both me and the trainer. After he was consistently not jumping under those circumstances, the trainer added tapping his chest to try and entice Beau to jump, which is what some of my neighbors would often do when greeting Beau (mostly men) because for some crazy reason they liked it when he jumped up. Anyway, same thing, a light correction and walk away. When he was able to consistently ignore the chest tapping and greet on all fours in exchange for hugs and kisses, we were done for the session. What was needed then was to do this same routine with multiple other people to teach that this applies to all humans, not just that trainer. We move around a bit, so I seldom have anyone like that I can work with, so I just used the random squealing strangers we would meet in the park or on the streets. He has greatly improved in his greeting etiquette. Not perfect, but much better.


I did this as well, only added treats for sitting nicely. Fasted way I've ever trained it (5 minutes with a hard core jumper).

The other method I've used that works is the approaching person steps out of reach when the dog jumps, (or walks away and maybe even treats another dog) when the dog sits on their own, the guest gives high praise word and a treat. Some dogs get this right away, others don't.


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