# When should I stop waking up when the pup whines during the night?



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

Hello, 
3 days ago I brought home an English Cocker Spaniel. 
He is 10 week and 4 days. On Sunday he will be 11 weeks old.

During the day time I keep him in my office in an ex-pen or in the kitchen & hallway with me when I cook. During the night he stays in a crate.

He whines and need to go potty about 3-5 times a night. So I wake up and take him out and then put him back in. With this routine he rarely has had an accident so far.

When should I stop waking up at his whines and let him sleep all night long? 
How old should he be? Or what are the signs that it's time for me to stop waking up and let him in the crate all night long? 

I want him to learn, in the end, that waking up during night and peeing is not on option. 

Thank you.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

You've got a while to go - probably at least a couple months before he doesn't need to potty in the night and ignoring him just means he learns that he uses his crate as a bathroom, which you don't want. 

And honestly, he'll probably stop waking up and whining when he stops having to go.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

CptJack said:


> And honestly, he'll probably stop waking up and whining when he stops having to go.


Yep.

Most likely, somewhere around 4-5 months he will be down to either 1 potty break in the night or sleeping solidly through the night depending on how long "nighttime" (as in, are you the type to go to bed at 11 pm and up at 6 am or 9 pm and snooze until 9 am?)

Some pups sleep through the night at 12 weeks, some need a potty break till 6 months. But generally if the dog is whining to go out and pee and actually does pee when given the chance, then they simply need to go and ignoring it just leads to peeing in the crate.
That said, if he whines to go out and doesn't pee but just wants to play around, then you need to make potty breaks shorter and more boring or you can set an alarm and take him out before he whines and then right back inside. One option is to use the alarm and set it a bit later into the night each night or two (as long as he isn't whining before it) to slowly increase the sleeping time.

But overall, I'd figure at least 1 potty break in the night for the next 6-10 weeks or so.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

Thank you. Good to know. Although, to be honest, I was not prepared for this  especially since I need my sleep to finish my dissertation, but I guess it comes with the package.
He does pee when I take him out in the night and he does not have many accidents. 
Wow...that's going to be tough...6 month from now on to have to wake up every hour or so..
(no kids here so no training for this)


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Then, when your dog is around 10 or 12, he'll need to start getting up and going out at night again. 

That's why senior dogs should live with senior humans. We're getting up anyway.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

abcd1234 said:


> Thank you. Good to know. Although, to be honest, I was not prepared for this  especially since I need my sleep to finish my dissertation, but I guess it comes with the package.
> He does pee when I take him out in the night and he does not have many accidents.
> Wow...that's going to be tough...6 month from now on to have to wake up every hour or so..
> (no kids here so no training for this)


It is pretty unlikely to be 6 months of waking up every hour. Really unlikely. With the foster puppies that I had that were 3-4 months old, I'd take them out about 10 pm and wake around 3 am and then get up for the morning around 7 am. 

The more solidly they sleep, the less they tend to need to pee. Just like humans, their body functions slow during sleep (think about the difference between sleeping 8 hours vs say, an 8 hour work day and how often a human typically needs to pee) but once awakened, its hard for them to go back to sleep without a pee. So things like a crate cover and a fan running for white noise can help.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

Shell said:


> It is pretty unlikely to be 6 months of waking up every hour. Really unlikely. With the foster puppies that I had that were 3-4 months old, I'd take them out about 10 pm and wake around 3 am and then get up for the morning around 7 am.
> 
> The more solidly they sleep, the less they tend to need to pee. Just like humans, their body functions slow during sleep (think about the difference between sleeping 8 hours vs say, an 8 hour work day and how often a human typically needs to pee) but once awakened, its hard for them to go back to sleep without a pee. So things like a crate cover and a fan running for white noise can help.


He has a plastic crate, and no lights. He is in a kitchen I am in a living-room (no doors between us). I put my twin bed mattress on the floor in the middle of the living-room to be close to him. But not in his sight. 
If you have any tips of what should I do to minimize the bathroom needs it would be great.
I am getting a little tired to be honest. And I need a clear mind, at least 2 month from now on.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Something that folks have implied, but I don't think was written explicitly is that the puppy does not 'want' to wake up and whine. The puppy is waking up and 'needs' to go out. Under 6 mos, puppies are still learning to control their bathroom habits, so you are fortunate that your puppy wakes you before having an accident.

I think Shell said it clearly - things will get better as he ages. You can try to put him on a predictable schedule, and ~6 mos he may be sleeping through the night. And as RonE offered, eventually your dog may be able to hold it better than you do ;-)

However, when you start getting to your orals and to your defense [what topic and title?], you may have to accept a few accidents [or be prepared that in some fields, even the dissertation is not as predictable as hoped ;-) ]


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

He will probably hold it better than I will. I'm not as young as I should be.
Yes...the dissertation is something that I Don't have patience for anymore. After 8 years..imagined. I want to wake up with him and clean dog poop for about 6 month to an year from now on.. That's all I want. Of course after I defend this damn thing that will not change the earth rotation around its axes ..
Sorry. this is a dog forum and I bother you with something else...


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

hanksimon said:


> , so you are fortunate that your puppy wakes you before having an accident.
> ]


So far he is a good dog. Whine very little; stays in his ex-pen and he is rarely very agitated, plays outside when I want to play with him, and he already follows me in the backyard, and even brings the toy back 8 out of 10 times. He already knows what "NO " means...
I had him for only 3 days. He is lucky, I guess that I am at home 6 days out of 7. He is also luck that he is as cute as it can be; and also very beautiful. A tri color ECS. ( But you know ...the beauty is in the eye....)

It's just this bathroom thing that I hope I'll survive.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

I think I did a mistake last night but I had to.
I let the pup in the ex-pen, all night long, with a few small towels around and some toys. I let him do his business there as I could not wake up every two hours.
He pooped and peed in there.

How bad is this going to affect his house breaking? 
Can I use this strategy in the long run? Waking up every 2-3 hours is not an option for me right now. At least not for the next 4-5 weeks.

Thank you


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

abcd1234 said:


> I think I did a mistake last night but I had to.
> I let the pup in the ex-pen, all night long, with a few small towels around and some toys. I let him do his business there as I could not wake up every two hours.
> He pooped and peed in there.
> 
> ...


Letting him poop and pee where he sleeps will generally make it significantly harder to potty train him.

He will get used to going where he sleeps instead of you being able to take advantage of a dog's natural reluctance to soil its "den"

Now is about building good habits as the dog develops the physical ability to hold it and the mental connections to know when he needs to go.

A couple weeks now of getting up in the night will make the following 6+ months much easier.

If you must let him potty inside, at least set up a proper pee pad or litterbox set-up but that still can delay potty training. Better than peeing randomly where he sleeps though


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

A couple weeks now of getting up in the night will make the following 16 YEARS much easier.  But I understand the issues.

Long, long ago, we used to potty train by using newspaper. It seemed to work fine, but was messier and took longer. If you must use a similar method, taking a riff from Shell, then try to make a distinct separation between his crate and his ex-pen - so that he can easily sleep in his crate, then get up and potty in his ex-pen, without soiling the crate. It's important to clean up as soon as possible.

You can cover the floor of the ex-pen with newspaper. Ideally he will potty far from the crate ... ideally. ;-) Remove anything that he soils, b/c it retains the smell, indicating "potty here!" Then, you can take a very small piece of soiled newspaper [?] and place it near one corner of the ex-pen on the newspaper away from the crate. If you keep things clean and 'mark' a potty area, he will learn that his bathroom is in that indicated corner. When you see groupings [of droppings ;-) ], you can begin to remove clean newspaper to help guide him to his bathroom area. If you are rigorous, he can learn his area in about 2 weeks. However, you can't trust him until 6 mos at the earliest, b/c pups don't have full control, they are still growing, and distractions or other factors can result in minor setbacks. So, it is important to clean up any area with enzyme cleaner to remove the smell, unless you are OK with using that area for pottying. 

It is still important for you to take him outside to potty, so that he can learn to signal and that you can learn his signals ... just echoing what Shell already wrote...

Note: puppy growth and maturity is NOT linear. It's 2 steps forward and 1 step backwards ... if you're lucky ;-) So, expect accidents and setbacks ... when you're in your suit planning for the defense. So as part of your defense, etc., include cute photos of the puppy ... sprinkling liberally throughout the presentation.


----------



## AsherLove (Jun 27, 2016)

I'm going to be the odd one out to say make sure your puppy HAS to go out. 
I got my standard poodle at 9 weeks. The first night, not a peep out of him, didn't potty in his crate.
Next night. he whined at 6:30am so I got up and let him out. he went pee, but just a quick pee, since I knew I probably wouldn't fall back asleep I just stayed up.
Night 3, he whined at like 3am. got up let him out, again he peed, but just a quick pee, cried for a bit after going back in his crate. I was like, hmm I don't think he HAS to go.
Night 4 he cried starting early and cried forever!! I didn't let him out. He finally settled, in the morning, no pee in his crate.
Night 5, no crying, no peeing in the night
Never had to let him out in the night again. 

I think 5 times a night is excessive (unless you are in bed for longer than 'normal'). The puppy shouldn't really hve to go that often if he's just sleeping in his crate. I think 2 times a night should really be more than fair. I would try to set your alarm to go off twice with equal time between the alarms and let him out at those times and ignore the other cries and see how he does. If you try it for a couple nights and he has accidents add another alarm to split the night into 3 times of letting him out. If you do 2 times and no accidents for a few days, you can see if you can do only 1 time a night. At least that's what I would try


----------



## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I second setting an alarm. We got her at ~13 weeks, so she was a little bit older than the OP's puppy, but for the first few weeks we had Ida, I had an alarm set for 12:30 and 3:00am (we normally go to bed at ~10pm). Alarm went off, we went outside until she peed or until a 2-3 minute timer went off, and then we went back to bed. At 15 weeks we went down to one alarm at ~1:30am, and within another couple of weeks she was sleeping through that alarm, and I figured no point in both of us losing sleep if she doesn't have to pee. She was also uncrated at night and so was able to wake us up if she had to go. But she was mostly sleeping through the night before she was 5 months.


----------



## russhw (Feb 5, 2017)

at that age if you are taking him out and he is going to the bathroom thats good if he is making you get up for nothing you need to ignore him its a tough call sometimes all dogs are different i have had 2 dogs s that loved the create my beagle mix not so much but he was the quickest house brake of them all and the least destructive of them all


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

THANK YOU all for your help.
After reading your posts I got back to waking up every time he whines. I sleep in the next room with no door between us.
I do not set an alarm clock because I do not want to condition him to wake up. If he does not need to be awake, even better. When he needs to pee he whines. (At least this is what he did so far). He does go to potty when he wakes up. 
Now I have 2 different issues.
1. _What if he learns that I am "at his back and call" and he will whine whenever he is bored, wants to play..etc? How can I prevent that?_
2._ What can I do to minimize his need to go potty during the nighttime?_
My goal is for him eventually to be able to stay in this crate from 10:30-11 pm – till 7 am ( sometimes 8  )


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

I think I forgot to mention his / our schedule.
1. I am at home 6 days a week. I teach on Friday for about 6 hours (plus commuting)
2. He is taken out during the day time every hour or so.
3. He has an ex-pen in my office where he stays when I am at my desk
4. He sleeps in a crate in the kitchen next to an older dog (our Doxie) who sleeps in a crate too.
5. He eats at 7 am and at 6 pm ( one cup of...whatever the breeder said)
6. I put him in his crate around 11 pm. 
7. I pray to God every night for him to sleep through but he wakes up at ` 12:30 am; 1:45 am...and 4:45-5:00 am.
If only I could make him stay / sleep from let's say 11 pm till 6 am.
8. He is grazing. This is his deal - eats grass . The breeder said I should not be worried, but....what do you think?

ANY SUGGESTIONS ? Any changes that you think you help him sleep through?

Otherwise, HE IS A GOOD DOG. Rarely whines / cries out of the blue, he is loving beyond belief (after all he is an English Cocker Spaniel) and he is VERY beautiful. I mean VERY. Show dog quality ( HE HE...in my eye at least  )


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

abcd1234 said:


> THANK YOU all for your help.
> After reading your posts I got back to waking up every time he whines. I sleep in the next room with no door between us.
> I do not set an alarm clock because I do not want to condition him to wake up...
> 
> 1. _What if he learns that I am "at his back and call" and he will whine whenever he is bored, wants to play..etc? How can I prevent that?_


You can prevent that by setting an alarm, like other posters have recommended. Gradually adjust the alarm so he is holding it longer and longer as he matures. Either you are training him to wake up and go when you tell him to (with reasonable expectations), or he is training you to wake up when he tells you to.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

Canyx said:


> You can prevent that by setting an alarm, like other posters have recommended. Gradually adjust the alarm so he is holding it longer and longer as he matures. Either you are training him to wake up and go when you tell him to (with reasonable expectations), or he is training you to wake up when he tells you to.


I see. OK. I guess it makes sense. I'll keep you posted of how it goes.
THANK YOU ALL so much for your help.
Never had a pup before.


----------



## Tollerowner (Jul 5, 2011)

Maybe I got lucky, but none of my three puppies every got up during the night from 7 weeks.
One is now 16.5 years and she goes 10 hours overnight.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

Tollerowner said:


> Maybe I got lucky, but none of my three puppies every got up during the night from 7 weeks.
> One is now 16.5 years and she goes 10 hours overnight.


I think you were very lucky.
When did you feed them in the evening? How about access to water?
Thank you


----------



## Tollerowner (Jul 5, 2011)

abcd1234 said:


> I think you were very lucky.
> When did you feed them in the evening? How about access to water?
> Thank you


We fed our newest puppy at 9am, noon and 6pm; and gave her free access to water. Took her out at 11:30pm and 8:30am.
I think the first two were similar, but it was a long time ago.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

Just an update for those who followed this thread
Today there are 2 weeks since I brought the pup home ( he is today 12 week old)
after waking up with him during the night, here are the results:
1. sleeps 6 hours without whining from 12:00 am to 6:00 am ( THANK GOD)
2. he has not have an accident in his crate in 10 days ( 3-4 accidents all together in the kitchen)
3. Yesterday he stayed in front of the back-yard door and when I let him out he peed and pooped.

I just hope he is on the right track.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Sounds like he is on the right track and making great progress. You can also teach him to go in a specific part of the yard, as his bathroom area, making it easier to clean up ... as long as you keep it clean. Next time he poops, touch it with a small piece of newspaper, enough to mark a smell. Then, place the newspaper where you want the pup to go. He will try to sniff out places that he's gone before, and if he finds the newspaper, then he may read it as "Bathroom Here!"

When he's about 4 mos, he may begin to lose his baby teeth, grow in his adult teeth, and start teething (again). If his mouth is sore, he may forget some of his potty training for a short time. Or he may not, just something to be aware of as a normal part of the cycle. Ditto for when you get him fixed

@Tollerowner - You were lucky or it is the breed (same difference ;-) ) My Lab mixes woke me up to go for their morning walks ... They didn't always NEED to go, but they always wanted to go walk. My current ~3yo dog pads into our bedroom around 6am, even tho we won't go walk until around 7:15. On the other, a true first time dog owner adopted a GSD puppy, and the pup always sleeps in until 9am. She still sleeps in her crate at 1.5yo, and still needs to be waken up, if it's not 9am.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

hanksimon said:


> , then he may read it as "Bathroom Here!"
> 
> When he's about 4 mos, he may begin to lose his baby teeth, grow in his adult teeth, and start teething (again). .


THANK YOU for these good pieces of advice.
So far I let him go potty all over the yard but you are right the yard is full of poop. I am trying to clean after him but this happens let's say 50-60% of the time.
He goes to potty at 6 am and I cannot see the poop in the dark 
Then I hunt the poop during the day , to see where it is, but I can find only so much.

Also, thanks for the teething reminder.

Now I am trying to bring him on a 8 am-8 pm eating schedule. The breeder was feeding him at 5 am and then at 5 pm. But that's brutal for me. He still wakes at 6 to pee and needs to poop by 7 am. But I would like for him to wake up at 7 eat at 8 and poop around 8:30


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

When he wakes at 6, wait 5 minutes each day ... 6:05, 6:10, 6:15 and so on to 6:30 to pee and maybe to poop; then wait 15 min. incrementally each day to 7:30 to feed him, and after a few weeks, you can try to push him to 7 & 8. You might do something like this in anticipation of moving back from Daylight Saving Time to Standard Time in November.


----------



## christine_72 (Jun 14, 2018)

RonE said:


> That's why senior dogs should live with senior humans. We're getting up anyway.


OMG This made me Chuckle! I get up at LEAST once a night, my hubby usually twice. We're in our mid 40's, are we seniors already... :-D

Hopefully OP's dog is sleeping through the night by now. We ended up conditioning our dog to get up to pee every time we did, this has only just recently stopped, and he's 7.5mths old. He's getting lazier and it's getting colder here, so he just stays in bed now. 
When we first got Nugget, i said give him til 6mths to be able to trust him overnight, even though he was housetrained well before then. The first year with our puppers is hard work, but we have many years thereafter to enjoy them, so it's all worth it in the end.


----------



## Bluemoods (Jun 5, 2018)

My rule of thumb is one hour per month of age but, there are exceptional dogs. My Kaila being one of them. She has a water bottle in her crate - I live in the southern USA, it's hot and humid, even with air conditioning and, she is a Malamute/Wolf hybrid.

Even with the water bottle, which she drinks 2-4 ounces form every night, the 12 week old darling manages 8 hours at night. I'd be happy with 3 hours but, she's sound asleep for six of those eight hours and, doesn't make a sound the other two hours. Then she's had enough and howls for me to come get her out.


----------



## abcd1234 (Aug 8, 2017)

christine_72 said:


> OMG This made me Chuckle! I get up at LEAST once a night, my hubby usually twice. We're in our mid 40's, are we seniors already... :-D
> 
> Hopefully OP's dog is sleeping through the night by now. d.


My dog learned to sleep throughout the night in the next 3-4 weeks with us ( when he was 4 month old). The vet told us not to wake up with him anymore until 6 am or so.
He is 11 months now and he wakes up when we do, or he waits downstairs until we are awake. But after I read other posts here, I think I was very lucky with this dog, in terms of behavior. He barely chewed anything, was very soon house trained, he does not bark excessively..maybe it is the breed, or only his nature, but he is very easy to live with. Thank God, because I have a job and a family to take care of.


----------

