# Pregnant - day 54



## pepsi09

*Pregnant - day 54 - now vomiting and very restless for over 6 hrs*

Jessica is now on day 54 of her pregnancy, milk has come and she is extremely clingy today is it usual for the milk to come in so soon, she was checked by the vet on day 50 (monday) and she told me to check for milk next friday (good Friday) as she is day 63 on easter sunday, she is carrying at least 8 pups, it is 16 yrs since I last has a bitch give birth so its like starting all over again, her welping box is ready and she is spending alot of time in there


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## Dog_Shrink

You're on day 54, gestation is approx 60 days... it's ok.


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## pepsi09

Thankyou for your reassurance as I said its alot of years since I had a pregnant bitch and do know some can give birth earlier if it is a large litter, thanks again


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## Dog_Shrink

No prob. Just make sure that you check her temp daily (I know fun stuff there) and when you start seeing those changes in her temperature she's gonna pop soon. Also from what I understand from some breeder friends a bitch who has a active litter in utero usually has a day of calm before whelping so if you can feel and see all the pups in her active then one day nothing (or not much) she's about ready to go. You'll know it'll be unmistakeable even to the untrained eye.


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## Kyllobernese

The average gestation is 63 days but they can have them as early as 59 days and they are usually alright. I have had litters from 59 to 67 days and the pups were fine and healthy.

One thing about the temperature taking is that it is not always accurate. Their temperature "usually" drops but sometimes it does not. The only thing I have found is that IF it does drop, they are really close.


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## pepsi09

Since my earlier post Jessica has been very unsettled for the last 6 hours, constantly cleaning herself and she has started to vomit and has taken herself off to her bed and is rolling about, I am abit concerned that she could be in the early stages of labour but is only 54 days, can anyone give me any advice on what to do if anything, My vet has given me the emergency number should I need it but obviously dont want to bother them if I am just worrying over nothing, thankyou


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## wabanafcr

54 days from what? How are you counting?

This behavior is not normal and I would call the vet. Just me, though, and I watch my pregnant girls like a hawk. Can't hurt to be overcautious, but it CAN hurt to wait too long.


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## Carma911

*Re: Pregnant - day 54 - now vomiting and very restless for over 6 hrs*

Since I am entering so late, I now wonder what has happened. I would say that it definitely sounds like labor. That makes me nervous if you are telling me that these pups are almost 10 days early. If she has not had them it may be a false alarm but I agree with wabanafcr you need to contact your vet. I hope all is well and that the counting days are somehow wrong and that she is actually full term. Please let us know. I do hope she does well and that she has a beautiful healthy litter. Just had a litter of Boxer's today. Just have the one but have been breeding for many years. Mostly English Bulldogs and I will tell you that you seriously have to watch them extremely close. My Boxer has been panting and anxious for 3 days so haven't had alot of sleep but 7 beautiful little babies makes up for the lost sleep and I have had so many kisses today from mommy and her little ones. She did great. I am praying that all is well with your little girl. By the way since it has been so long since you had a litter it is good to know the stages. 

The First Stage of Labor 

During this stage, uterine contractions begin. The bitch will appear very restless and may pace, dig, shiver, pant, or even vomit. This is all normal and all an owner can do is see that the bitch has water available should she want it. This lasts about 6-12 hours.



The Second and Third Stages of Labor

The second stage is the hard labor stage in which the puppy is expelled. The third stage refers to the expulsion of the placenta and afterbirth. Each pup may not be followed by afterbirth; the mother may pass two pups and then two placentas. This is normal. 

Puppies are born covered in membranes that must be cleaned away or the pup will suffocate. The mother will bite and lick the membranes away. Allow her a minute or two after birth to do this; if she does not do it, then you must clean the pup for her. Simply remove the slippery covering and rub the puppy with a clean towel. The umbilical cord may be tied in a knot about one inch from the pup and cut with scissors on the far side of the knot. 



Expect a pup every 45 to 60 minutes with about 10 to 30 minutes of hard straining. It is normal for bitches to take a rest partway through delivery, and she may not strain at all for up to 4 hours between pups. If she is seen straining hard for over an hour, or if she takes longer than a 4-hour break, consult a veterinarian, as the health of the puppies or the bitch may be in serious danger. 



Hope this helps for future reference.


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## spotted nikes

A little off topic but why did you breed rescued mix dogs?


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## pepsi09

Thankyou everyone for your help and advise, had vet out to Jessica last night and she was given a mild sedative as he said she was starting with early labour, her temp had dropped to 99.9 but he didnt think that her waters had fully broke, its been a long night but she is holding onto the pups and is alot more settled this morning, as for why I breed mixed rescue dogs? well it certainly wasnt intentional they had been kept seperated but as you know sometimes it doesnt matter how careful you are if there is a way they will find it, the main thing is mum and pups are healthy and vet is on call should I need him at anytime.


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## digits mama

There is a way..Spay and neuter your rescue dogs..geez..


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## Kyllobernese

Did you count from the first time she was bred? As it was an accidental breeding, she should only have been bred once so should be easy to count 63 days from it. It does not mean that she will go the 63 days but hopefully she will hold out till at least 59 days as then there is much more chance of the puppies surviving.


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## MagicRe

digits mama said:


> There is a way..Spay and neuter your rescue dogs..geez..


just to be fair...the day before my llasa apso/ poodle mix went in for neutering, he got to my scotty poo mix who was also scheduled for neutering the next day. they were the same age....and we already had 6 rescues

voila...six of the ugliest puppies you ever did see and every single one of them found homes...

here's my problem...i have a problem with fixing dogs younger than a certain age because i really do believe that spaying and neutering can impede the development of their pelvic integrity and structure....

i don't want to breed...never have....although her entire pregnancy was fascinating as was his reaction to it and her reaction to him....

i've never had it happen since then...and i'm a responsible pet owner...but oops..it does on occasion happen, in spite of our best efforts...

i hope that's the case in this case..and i hope that the owner gives the dogs away to good homes....


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## pepsi09

digits mama said:


> There is a way..Spay and neuter your rescue dogs..geez..


Yes I do know that and she was booked in for the following week, I have had dogs for many years and have always been a responsible owner, I have always adopted abandonded dogs as I feel that if there were more responsible owners about there wouldnt be the need for re-homing centres, Jessica was 4 months old when I got her and had already had 4 previous homes !!!! the first dog I rehomed was a GSD who was 6 months old at the time had been beated and starved and she lived a healthy long life with me she died at the age of 14, she too had 1 litter of pups before being neutered who all went on to lovely homes and are still in them, I am very particular about homing pups and all jessica's will be sent to loving caring good homes.


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## spotted nikes

But you've had Buster (the father of these pups) for 3 yrs and he wasn't neutered, and Jessica for almost a year and a half, and she wasn't spayed. Spaying/neutering too young, wasn't an issue here. It is irresponsible to not keep mixed bred/non breeding quality dogs from reproducing. Since they are mixed breed, they SHOULD have been spayed or neutered or kept separated. You are adding to the pet overpopulation problem. Yes, you might find homes for them, but that means that other puppies will not.
You could have kept her spay appt, if she was only a week pregnant.


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## pepsi09

We were told by the vet when Buster was young that he was infertile!!! and therefore no need to get him done, not everyone who wants a puppy can afford to pay hundreds of pounds for one yet they are still capable of providing excellent homes


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## spotted nikes

pepsi09 said:


> We were told by the vet when Buster was young that he was infertile!!! and therefore no need to get him done, not everyone who wants a puppy can afford to pay hundreds of pounds for one yet they are still capable of providing excellent homes


 I promise you there is no way the vet would randomly test sperm production/motility on a mixed breed dog. Therefore, there is no way he could tell you he was infertile. Unless he was referring to when the puppy was 4 months old, and just too young to breed. But dogs grow up.

So when did he get neutered? Surely, after getting Jessica pregnant, you've brought him in???


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## pepsi09

Yes I did take him in and he has been neutered, Jessica will also be done as soon as the vet feels the time is right


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## lulusmom

pepsi09 said:


> not everyone who wants a puppy can afford to pay hundreds of pounds for one yet they are still capable of providing excellent homes


If a person cannot afford an adoption fee, how are they going to afford to feed the dog and pay for medical care when s/he gets sick? I sincerely hope that in your search for the best possible homes for these puppies, you consider more than the adoptor's desire to have one.


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## MagicRe

lulusmom said:


> If a person cannot afford an adoption fee, how are they going to afford to feed the dog and pay for medical care when s/he gets sick? I sincerely hope that in your search for the best possible homes for these puppies, you consider more than the adoptor's desire to have one.


i wish i knew the answer to that particular question, as i watch my sister in law with her dog and two cats.....

there was a thread about insurance or how do we pay for the little catastrophes that always surprise us....

we have vets here who are either mobil or they are called vets for less....so these procedures can be performed...local humane societies also help and charge less money to those who don't have money...

spaying and neutering are such a priority....because there are too many dogs and cats and horses without homes....and it makes me cry to see those commericals...as MY two rescues who have cost me a mint, lay on their backs on the couch, as is their due.....

due to back yard breeders or shall i say, accidental breeders....


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## digits mama

MagicRe said:


> just to be fair...the day before my llasa apso/ poodle mix went in for neutering, he got to my scotty poo mix who was also scheduled for neutering the next day. they were the same age....and we already had 6 rescues
> 
> voila...six of the ugliest puppies you ever did see and every single one of them found homes...
> 
> here's my problem...i have a problem with fixing dogs younger than a certain age because i really do believe that spaying and neutering can impede the development of their pelvic integrity and structure....
> 
> i don't want to breed...never have....although her entire pregnancy was fascinating as was his reaction to it and her reaction to him....
> 
> i've never had it happen since then...and i'm a responsible pet owner...but oops..it does on occasion happen, in spite of our best efforts...
> 
> i hope that's the case in this case..and i hope that the owner gives the dogs away to good homes....


When a rescuer allows their dogs to become pregnant. you are no longer a rescuer. You are adding to the problem of where that particular dog came from. I have a problem with altering a dog before it is time also. But it becomes negligence if it happens...Not an accident or a simple "oops"


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## MagicRe

digits mama said:


> When a rescuer allows their dogs to become pregnant. you are no longer a rescuer. You are adding to the problem of where that particular dog came from. I have a problem with altering a dog before it is time also. But it becomes negligence if it happens...Not an accident or a simple "oops"


here's a defensive answer first.....i tried to NOT allow it. 

now, here's my heart answer.....I didn't try hard enough....i thought i had more time....i thought lots of things...and i was ignorant.

now that i'm no longer ignorant, well, none of my dogs get pregnant nor do they make others pregnant.

fortunately, for me....all the pups had good homes until they died of old age....

fortunately, for the pups, they had good homes until they died of old age.

fortunately, fortunately, i became part of the solution, not the problem.

all i was saying is that it can and does happen, even with dog owners who really try to be responsible.

sometimes we fail or make mistakes.....i did...but i learned from it and maybe maybe this person will, too.


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## pepsi09

Day 59, waters have just broke looks like pups sometime soon


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## vixen

I think people are being a little harsh here.

Yes in an ideal world the puppies wouldn't have happened but mostakes happen, and shorely being suportive of an owner that is worryed about there bitch is far better than having a go. You can't turn back the clock and making someone feel bad won't change a thing.

I hope the birth goes smoothly, and mum and pups do well.


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## PappyMom

Agreed with vixen, and can't wait to see puppy pics. =]


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## Kyllobernese

I am glad to hear that she held out to 59 days as the puppies should be alright. There is nothing worse than having them born too premature and seeing them all die.

Post some pictures of them when you have time.


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## pepsi09

*Re: Pregnant - day 54 - update*

Hi everyone

Just to let you know that Jessica had 3 pups yesterday all boys, mum and pups are doing great

Pup 1 weighed in at 15oz 7gr

Pup 2 weighed in at 1lb 2oz 2gr

Pup 3 weighed in at 1lb 4oz 1gr

Think the vet got it slightly wrong when he said 6 to 8 pups lol

Will post pics as soon as my daughter uploads them for me as im useless with stuff like that x


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## vixen

congratulations

can't wait for pics


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## infiniti

Congrats on the healthy delivery!  Glad that it seems all are doing well. We'd all love to see pics soon!

And I hope I don't offend when I say that it's probably better that she had a smaller litter. That's fewer to find homes for, and a better shot at hopefully finding good homes for!


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## Tankstar

Id take her in tot he vet. Vet may not be wrong and you may have a puppy in there some where still.


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## Laurelin

Tankstar said:


> Id take her in tot he vet. Vet may not be wrong and you may have a puppy in there some where still.


That was my thought too. Better safe than sorry. That's a big difference in numbers.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

pepsi09 said:


> Yes I do know that and she was booked in for the following week..





MagicRe said:


> just to be fair...the day before my llasa apso/ poodle mix went in for neutering, he got to my scotty poo mix who was also scheduled for neutering the next day. they were the same age....and we already had 6 rescues


Unless you guys had some magic dog pregnancy test that worked a day and a week after breeding, there was no way for you to know the dogs were pregnant and you should have gone through with the spay. Voila- no puppies.


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## CorgiKarma

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Unless you guys had some magic dog pregnancy test that worked a day and a week after breeding, there was no way for you to know the dogs were pregnant and you should have gone through with the spay. Voila- no puppies.


Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with this...


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## GypsyJazmine

digits mama said:


> When a rescuer allows their dogs to become pregnant. you are no longer a rescuer. You are adding to the problem of where that particular dog came from. I have a problem with altering a dog before it is time also. But it becomes negligence if it happens...Not an accident or a simple "oops"


Amen!
Stories like this make me feel that my rescue efforts are for nothing.


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## FaithFurMom09

edited to avoid further issues


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## GypsyJazmine

FaithFurMom09 said:


> oh good freaking grief! im SO over this frame of mind. I had to borrow money to pay the $15 to get Faith, does that mean when she had worms like 3x I couldnt afford to take her to the vet or get her meds? Does it mean I couldnt afford dog food, even if it was a crappy one? Does it mean I never should of got Hope, our 2nd dog because of course I couldnt afford Faith so how am I going to afford 2 dogs? Now they are on Raw- am I a bad person because I take away our food stamps to feed my dogs? Get the crap over your self.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> and congrats on your pups! Im glad they made it ok!!


As a tax payer I, for one, don't appreciate my money going to feed your dogs...Are you a bad person?...Not for me to judge but if you need food stamps let them go for your food as they should & stop getting dogs.


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## FaithFurMom09

edited to avoid further issues


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## GypsyJazmine

FaithFurMom09 said:


> well we can gladly get into this debate if youd like.... shall we?
> 
> My husband and I work- we both pay taxes. I dont sit on my rump and get 7000 in FS a month. Ill be honest I get around $500. If you REALLY want to know we just started Raw and I have maybe, MAYBE spent $75 if that of the money. We are a healthy eating family, we hardly ever get pop/chips/junk food, which i know is another debate. I have had Faith a year and Hope 5 months, why dont I just send them off then? How is that better?
> 
> Good grief.


There is no debate...I have my opinion & you have yours...However, why don't you tell the welfare agency that you are spending food stamps on your dogs meat & see how that flies?...That is not what it is for & against the guidelines...Do you have children?...I am sure they could benefit from that added nutrition...Good grief indeed.


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## grab

Did your vet do an xray to count pups? Unless your vet is completely unfamiliar with how to count pups on xray that is a huge difference. missing by one or so is one thing..by 3-5 would concern me

I also agree that if you were planning on her being spayed the next week, you should have continued to do so. A week after mating there are no outward signs that i am aware of to decipher if a dog is pregnant.


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## FaithFurMom09

GypsyJazmine said:


> There is no debate...I have my opinion & you have yours...However, why don't you tell the welfare agency that you are spending food stamps on your dogs meat & see how that flies?...That is not what it is for & against the guidelines...Do you have children?...I am sure they could benefit from that added nutrition...Good grief indeed.


Quite frankly I am not talking about this anymore. My children do not go without food on any basis, Ill gladly switch my dogs back to kibble if and when i need to.


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## GypsyJazmine

FaithFurMom09 said:


> Quite frankly I am not talking about this anymore. My children do not go without food on any basis, Ill gladly switch my dogs back to kibble if and when i need to.


& here I thought you wanted to debate the issue.


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## upendi'smommy

On topic, I think you should take her in and get her checked. That's a huge difference in the number of pups and you could have a puppy that got stuck, which would mean there could be more than one puppy in there.

I also agree, that if you actually had an appt. for a spay a week after the breeding you should have gone forward with it. Sure you could/can find homes for these puppies, but those are homes being potentially taken away from puppies sitting in a shelter.

Off topic, Faith fur mom quite frankly it pisses me off as a hard working tax paying citizen that MY MONEY is going to feed your dogs. If you can't afford to feed them raw on YOUR DIME then you should put them back on kibble. Seriously, I pay to feed my dogs with my money and I'd appreciate if you'd feed your dogs with your money rather than mine.


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## GypsyJazmine

upendi'smommy said:


> Off topic, Faith fur mom quite frankly it pisses me off as a hard working tax paying citizen that MY MONEY is going to feed your dogs. If you can't afford to feed them raw on YOUR DIME then you should put them back on kibble. Seriously, I pay to feed my dogs with my money and I'd appreciate if you'd feed your dogs with your money rather than mine.


Right on...Sad she is taking food out of her family's mouth to feed dogs she can't afford to have.


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## DJEtzel

I don't really see why you need to be so judgemental. You're going to pay the same amount of taxes regardless and she's going to get and spend the same amound of food stamps regardless. It doesn't really matter if she's feeding her dogs with it too, the money is still spent, and if she wasn't feeding her dogs and the money just sat there, you'd still be paying the money from your taxes. 

Sorry, I have nothing to contribute to the topic, but it's quite rude to feel so superior because someone else is on food stamps. What they use it for doesn't affect you at all. I think there are a few people here that need to get off of their high horse.


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## GypsyJazmine

DJEtzel said:


> I don't really see why you need to be so judgemental. You're going to pay the same amount of taxes regardless and she's going to get and spend the same amound of food stamps regardless. It doesn't really matter if she's feeding her dogs with it too, the money is still spent, and if she wasn't feeding her dogs and the money just sat there, you'd still be paying the money from your taxes.
> 
> Sorry, I have nothing to contribute to the topic, but it's quite rude to feel so superior because someone else is on food stamps. What they use it for doesn't affect you at all. I think there are a few people here that need to get off of their high horse.


It has nothing to do with feeling superior because someone else is on food stamps...We got them ourselves many years ago when we needed them...It has to do with using them as they are supposed to be used & that is not for feeding dogs someone can't afford to have so they resort to their food stamps to feed the dogs...Stop getting dogs would be my thoughts.


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## upendi'smommy

DJEtzel said:


> I don't really see why you need to be so judgemental. You're going to pay the same amount of taxes regardless and she's going to get and spend the same amound of food stamps regardless. It doesn't really matter if she's feeding her dogs with it too, the money is still spent, and if she wasn't feeding her dogs and the money just sat there, you'd still be paying the money from your taxes.
> 
> Sorry, I have nothing to contribute to the topic, but it's quite rude to feel so superior because someone else is on food stamps. What they use it for doesn't affect you at all. I think there are a few people here that need to get off of their high horse.


You know I really hate assumptions. I don't feel superious, hell my family receives food stamps, only sixteen dollars a month but still. I have no problem with families in need receiving it, I do have a problem with her using it to feed her dogs. It tells me one of two things or maybe just two things:
a) She can't afford to feed her dogs out of pocket.
b) If she's using the fs to buy her dogs food, how much does she really need them?


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## GypsyJazmine

What really burns my butt is that we are struggling & needing to cut back even on groceries because of the economy...I even cut way back on my milk consumption so the kids always have it...& here she is using food stamps to feed her dogs...That is a real kick in the teeth to me.


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## MagicRe

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Unless you guys had some magic dog pregnancy test that worked a day and a week after breeding, there was no way for you to know the dogs were pregnant and you should have gone through with the spay. Voila- no puppies.


you're absolutely right.

we were afflicted with a conditon called ignorance or stupidity or fatalism....we were not breeders....we saw them connected and kind of thought 'oh well'...and 'oops'....

that was twenty years ago....and it's never happened since.

ya know...it's not what i did, it's what i did after.

it's been twenty years and no dog of mine has ever ever carried a litter since.

they are all spayed and neutered.....

mistakenly i thought it would be too traumatic or i thought whatever i thought, which meant i wasn't thinking at all..

that was then. this is now.

ignorance is one thing...once a person is no longer ignorant, what they do next is what matters....


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

MagicRe said:


> you're absolutely right.
> 
> we were afflicted with a conditon called ignorance or stupidity or fatalism....we were not breeders....we saw them connected and kind of thought 'oh well'...and 'oops'....
> 
> that was twenty years ago....and it's never happened since.
> 
> ya know...it's not what i did, it's what i did after.
> 
> it's been twenty years and no dog of mine has ever ever carried a litter since.
> 
> they are all spayed and neutered.....
> 
> mistakenly i thought it would be too traumatic or i thought whatever i thought, which meant i wasn't thinking at all..
> 
> that was then. this is now.
> 
> ignorance is one thing...once a person is no longer ignorant, what they do next is what matters....


LOL 20 years ago? Did I miss that or did you not mention it? I can't comment on the circumstances regarding dogs 20 years ago (I was going on the ripe age of 4).

Still applies to the OP, though, and this issue wouldn't be an issue. Maybe I am insensitive now, but I don't see any reason dogs should be able to get to each other and mate. I hate when it's easily dismissed with "oh, accidents happen." Well, maybe someone can find something for me, but I don't know any responsible breeders with unaltered dogs that allow accidents to happen. I'm by no means a responsible breeder- or a breeder period- but one of my bitches was not spayed until she was nearly 3 (medical reasons were a big factor in the debate) and we had fosters that were not altered and Jonas came to us unaltered. 

In fact, we were in the exact situation OP was in- except they never got to each other. Jonas and Smalls were schedule to be altered a day apart. Just before the appointments, Smalls went into heat earlier than I had calculated and Jonas went bonkers. I made arrangements for Smalls to stay with my parents and Jonas with me- but she couldn't go for three days. Guess who spent their time in the basement with Smalls while Jonas was separated on another floor with my boyfriend. They went potty at separate times in separate areas and I didn't get much sleep. Was it terrible? Yes. Did we have puppies? Nope.


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## MagicRe

GypsyJazmine said:


> What really burns my butt is that we are struggling & needing to cut back even on groceries because of the economy...I even cut way back on my milk consumption so the kids always have it...& here she is using food stamps to feed her dogs...That is a real kick in the teeth to me.


i've received food stamps also....and i hate to say it, but we know nothing of anyone's finances here.....

there are many dogs in my area who are now in shelters because people cannot afford to keep them...

for us, i'm not ashamed to say that i got sick....had seven surgeries in four years and finally lost my business...we sold our house for a loss...i do not collect unemployment and we have to pay an equity loan we had taken out a year before we sold....which we will be paying forever on....and yeah, it's taken a bite out of our sails....we lost fully half of our income when the doors to my business closed....thank G'd my husband has a good job and we are living on his income....we had five dogs....we make too much money to get food stamps and we make too little to afford five dogs now....we certainly could before i got cancer....but we cannot now.

these days, i simply don't see how anybody can judge anyone else's situation...my taxes go to a lot of spending that i don't think is right...

i guess the way i'm looking at it is it's two less dogs in a shelter....and hopefully, faith fur mom can get back on her feet, so she can use her own money to pay for her dog's foods...

right now, we live in an upside down world....real hard to judge anyone, at this point..except maybe the politicians and wall street and mortgage brokers and real estate agents and banks and, well those who caused what happened and those who fell for it....

and it's done now.....the door cannot be closed once opened.....got to live with the way things are now....

in a way, i was not so lucky.....my dogs were old and they died, so we no longer had five dogs.....we got to grieve instead of taking food out of our mouths to put into theirs....

i will say that i would do anything it took to keep my dogs fed...and, if it meant using food stamps, then they would eat eggs and cereal and whatever i could afford....but they would eat because that's the commitment i made to them....

i learned my lesson twenty years ago with letting a dog get pregnant...and now the only dogs i have and have had are rescue dogs...

one less dog in a shelter means the world to me....whether they are fed food stamp money or not....these days, i have to choose my battles carefully...

irresponsible breeding..which i've been guilty of once in my life...is so much more toxic than spending a few bucks a month from food stamps...it keeps the dogs out of shelters...which is the purpose, is it not?


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## RonE

I'd advise you all to keep this on topic or the thread will be closed.


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## MagicRe

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> LOL 20 years ago? Did I miss that or did you not mention it? I can't comment on the circumstances regarding dogs 20 years ago (I was going on the ripe age of 4).
> 
> Still applies to the OP, though, and this issue wouldn't be an issue. Maybe I am insensitive now, but I don't see any reason dogs should be able to get to each other and mate. I hate when it's easily dismissed with "oh, accidents happen." Well, maybe someone can find something for me, but I don't know any responsible breeders with unaltered dogs that allow accidents to happen. I'm by no means a responsible breeder- or a breeder period- but one of my bitches was not spayed until she was nearly 3 (medical reasons were a big factor in the debate) and we had fosters that were not altered and Jonas came to us unaltered.
> 
> In fact, we were in the exact situation OP was in- except they never got to each other. Jonas and Smalls were schedule to be altered a day apart. Just before the appointments, Smalls went into heat earlier than I had calculated and Jonas went bonkers. I made arrangements for Smalls to stay with my parents and Jonas with me- but she couldn't go for three days. Guess who spent their time in the basement with Smalls while Jonas was separated on another floor with my boyfriend. They went potty at separate times in separate areas and I didn't get much sleep. Was it terrible? Yes. Did we have puppies? Nope.


what can i say LOL...i still have guilt....


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## MegaMuttMom

MagicRe said:


> i've received food stamps also....and i hate to say it, but we know nothing of anyone's finances here.....
> 
> there are many dogs in my area who are now in shelters because people cannot afford to keep them...
> 
> for us, i'm not ashamed to say that i got sick....had seven surgeries in four years and finally lost my business...we sold our house for a loss...i do not collect unemployment and we have to pay an equity loan we had taken out a year before we sold....which we will be paying forever on....and yeah, it's taken a bite out of our sails....we lost fully half of our income when the doors to my business closed....thank G'd my husband has a good job and we are living on his income....we had five dogs....we make too much money to get food stamps and we make too little to afford five dogs now....we certainly could before i got cancer....but we cannot now.
> 
> these days, i simply don't see how anybody can judge anyone else's situation...my taxes go to a lot of spending that i don't think is right...
> 
> i guess the way i'm looking at it is it's two less dogs in a shelter....and hopefully, faith fur mom can get back on her feet, so she can use her own money to pay for her dog's foods...
> 
> right now, we live in an upside down world....real hard to judge anyone, at this point..except maybe the politicians and wall street and mortgage brokers and real estate agents and banks and, well those who caused what happened and those who fell for it....
> 
> and it's done now.....the door cannot be closed once opened.....got to live with the way things are now....
> 
> in a way, i was not so lucky.....my dogs were old and they died, so we no longer had five dogs.....we got to grieve instead of taking food out of our mouths to put into theirs....
> 
> i will say that i would do anything it took to keep my dogs fed...and, if it meant using food stamps, then they would eat eggs and cereal and whatever i could afford....but they would eat because that's the commitment i made to them....
> 
> i learned my lesson twenty years ago with letting a dog get pregnant...and now the only dogs i have and have had are rescue dogs...
> 
> one less dog in a shelter means the world to me....whether they are fed food stamp money or not....these days, i have to choose my battles carefully...
> 
> irresponsible breeding..which i've been guilty of once in my life...is so much more toxic than spending a few bucks a month from food stamps...it keeps the dogs out of shelters...which is the purpose, is it not?


Thank you so much for this thoughtful, compassionate post.


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## 5 s corral

how are the pups and mom doingt 
jamie


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## MissPriss91

digits mama said:


> There is a way..Spay and neuter your rescue dogs..geez..


FYI my choc lab mix is on day 54 of pregnancy and let me tell you that accidents do happen! I brought her to her vet appt to be fixed and found out she was pregnant so try not to judge people.


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## RonE

Try not to respond to 10 year old threads. None of the participants have been here for many years.


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