# Royal Canin vs Hills Science Plan vs...vs...vs...



## Viantha (Aug 12, 2014)

Wow! that was a lot of research! 

So we started off Sammy on Hills Science Plan Medium Chicken for puppies as per the vets recommendation. We ran out (have to love husbands....we usually transfer to a smaller bowl from the bag and use that to make it easier - he did the last transfer and he failed to inform me and assumed the bag would magically refill itself! hahaha) and NONE of the stores close by had hills science (usually order it online) so I had to make a call - and bought the Royal Canin Golden Retriever Junior. I started him on it last night. His stools seem to be a bit firmer, and slightly healthier (hes only 3 meals in on it so it could be coincidence) but I started doing some research on which would be better.

The feeling I get - is neither! Could someone please help me understand all this info! I understand a lot of the brands have corn or grains which is not good for dogs, however, all the brands (wellness, innova evo, orijen etc) that are grain free are crazy expensive! I don't know if it is because we are in India and they import it, but it is $250 for a 29lb bag! Are there any other brands that you would recommend? Most are available, 

I am trying to decide the best affordable brand - we don't mind spending to ensure our Sammy's excellent health, but that is a bit extreme! If there are no other brands that can be recommended, Our choices are Royal Canin, Eukanuba, Hills Science Plan. How do I choose the best one? The one with less corn and more meat? What if the one with more corn is the one with more meat?

I am also considering buying one bag of the Acana brand, and making one of his meals a day that. Is that advisable?

If someone can please help me out here! I would GREATLY appreciate it! Thank you.


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## Prozax (Aug 26, 2014)

All of the grain free food is expensive. However I have found Acana to be more reasonably priced and also good quality.
My dog has been eating Acana Grasslands and it works great for her. All of their grain free diets are all life stages, so you can probably go with one of those. They also have puppy specific food but it is not grain free. You can shop around and decide what food works best for your pup. Check sites like dogfoodadvisor.com . They have some very good info.

I don't know about feeding one meal a day of a different brand of food. Maybe it will upset the puppy's tummy. You can definitely mix them together and feed the mix at all times, if you really want to do that.

That price of a bag of Orijen is crazy! I live in Eastern Europe, Romania, therefore Orijen/Acana are also imported. One bag of Acana Grasslands, 13 kg, is about 100 dollars, so nowhere near that price!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Given your location with more limited choices and with extreme prices on imported higher end brands, what I would do is pick a food that is reasonably priced with a named meat meal as the first ingredient and then supplement up to 1/4 of his calories with whatever affordable real meat you have available. By "named" meat meal, I mean it should say "Chicken meal" or "Poultry meal" or "lamb meal" rather than "meat and bone meal" or just "meat meal" 
Eukanuba Adult Dog Food- Chicken isn't a bad choice if that's available (out of the brands you mention as available); its first few ingredients are---

_Chicken, Chicken Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Oat Flour, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Fish Meal, Brewers Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Dried Egg Product_ 
and the protein and fat levels of 25% and 16% are solid. 

For the supplemental meat, if you aren't comfortable feeding it raw maybe due to the source of the meat or whatever, as long as it is boneless meat then you can cook it and use as treats or serve as a meal. Heart is a muscle meat, not an organ, as far as feeding goes so chicken gizzards and hearts are one of my favorite cheap meat products for dogs. In the US, you can't find lung in grocery shops due to regulations but lung is also a muscle meat (lamb lung or goat lung for example) and most dogs love it. 

It isn't so much that corn or grains are bad but rather than they aren't where dogs should be getting the majority of their nutrition from. So if a food has say "chicken, chicken meal, corn, egg, rice, fish meal" as the first few ingredients, the dog is going to be getting a good proportion of meat protein and fat. But if a food is "corn, brewers rice, chicken, corn gluten" that is not a good amount of meat.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Not sure if this website would even be worth ordering from, but the Drools Focus looks decently priced.

http://www.dogspot.in/dry-dog-food/

http://www.dogspot.in/focus-adult-food-15-kg/

THe farmina is more expensive but thats a pretty good food.

How much per kg are you currently paying?


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## Viantha (Aug 12, 2014)

Hi there!

Thank you so much for the suggestions and advise. So I am trying to do a comparison now of the different brands.

Shell, I think I am definitely going to start supplementing his meals with real food - will definitely be cooking it for him, I was thinking maybe alternating lamb and rice & gizzards/heart with a stock gravy for one of his meals and then the whichever brand I finally decide on for his dry food for his other 2 meals (still on 3 meals a day for now - seems like that will cut down to 2 around 6 months)

The Royal Canin ingredients are:

Dehydrated poultry protein, rice, maize, vegetable protein isolate, animal fats, wheat, vegetable fibres, hyrdolised animal proteins, beet pulp, minerals fish oils, yeast, hydrolysed crustaceans, borage oil, marigold extract, hydrolysed cartilage, vitamins.

Having a look on dogfoodadvisor.com it seems Eukunuba is indeed a better option for Sammy, I just need to find a puppy variety, or breed specific one. Thank you for the suggestion Prozax! There are so many pet food sites, and so many saying different things! The recommendation is appreciated. 

Thank you both!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

If you're cooking for him, I would suggest ONLY the meat product with no additional rice (since there are plenty of carbs in the kibble) and not adding any salt. Also, if by "stock gravy" you mean something premade for humans like for chicken soup stock, you want to double check there is no onions or garlic in the recipe and preferably low sodium. I wouldn't actually use anything except a bit of the water that you cook the meat in if you want it to be soupy. 

The Royal Canin ingredients are pretty bleh in my opinion but at least a dehydrated meat protein is the first ingredient which is something good. The protein and fat percents are good, the calcium percent is good and the ash content isn't too high. So it does have some things going for it. 

In general, breed specific foods are just a marketing gimmick. If you find a food that is called "All Life Stages" then it is suitable for puppies. With large and giant breed puppies, the main concern is the proper calcium levels (should not be too high) and calcium/phosphorus ratio; which is one reason I suggest only adding boneless meats to supplement. Some puppy foods are aimed at high-growth which is not what you want for a large breed puppy and some adult foods are actually more appropriate. A general consensus on calcium levels for large/giant breed puppies is to keep it on the lower end at about no more than 1.2% and note that the bag will state a minimum calcium percent so the actual is probably higher and sometimes noticeably higher. So if the minimum listed calcium percent is already at the higher end of the desired range, its actual amount probably exceeds the desired percentage.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

Corn and grains are only bad for dogs if they are high up on the list- first or second ingredient. Corn and grains aren't inherently bad for dogs unless one particular dog has a real problem with it (intolerance or allergy). They've been vilified by pet food companies and dog food chat rooms all over the internet. I have one I do not feed any grains to or she will itch herself badly and have diarrhea. My other 3 handle it just fine.

Adding "toppers" to their meals can greatly improve the quality of their meals. Mine get toppers every day. My usual go-to is chicken 'stew.' I put half a chicken in the crock pot, 2 T Apple Cider Vinegar (helps break down the bones), plus a few potatoes or veggies or old apple or what have you... Into the pot, cook it 12 hours (I do mine overnight). By morning the bones should be easily mashed with a potato masher. I just go to town mashing. Then, put in storage tubs, one into the fridge and the rest into the freezer. They get a good spoonful on their kibble at supper time of this mixture. Morning meal is a spoonful of plain yogurt or kefir. Really helped improve coats by adding the toppers. I also do cooked egg, canned sardines in water, canned salmon, mackerel, etc. 

Hope this helps. If he is doing well on the Royal Canin, there's nothing wrong with that. 
And also, don't worry so much about the "stars" that a website gives... those stars cannot prove the quality of the meat meals used in food no matter how many stars they get. 
Good luck


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

fourdogs said:


> Hope this helps. If he is doing well on the Royal Canin, there's nothing wrong with that.
> And also, don't worry so much about the "stars" that a website gives... those stars cannot prove the quality of the meat meals used in food no matter how many stars they get.
> Good luck


This, but also, who cares if it is a 5 star food if you can't afford it and/or your dog doesn't do well on it? There are some dogs that poorly on high-protein grain-free foods. It just depends on your dog.


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## Viantha (Aug 12, 2014)

Thanks Everyone! 

Rescued, I actually use dogspot to get all Sammy's toys and his science hill when he was on it. Which he is now no longer on - his skin, his poops and his general behaviour has been so so much better on Royal Canin than it ever was on Hills Science, so that brand is no longer an option!

We have decided to go with Farmina - seems to have an awesome listing of meat and fish! Thank you so much!


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