# I need help. Jealous mini schnauzer attacks puppies.



## Nell (Oct 21, 2010)

-_- so I have a 18 mo. old miniature schnauzer with jealousy issues. He is normally very well behaved and obeys commands with few to no repetitions, problem is, he is jealous, and while sometimes he just barks at other dogs, in two occasions he has attacked puppies without warning -_-, once over a stick, and in another occasion out of the blue. I caught him in both occasions, scruffed him away from the target, grabbed him by the muzzle and forced him on his back until he calmed down. 

At the dog park I go to one of the puppy owners is already wary enough to avoid my dog, and I don't blame him. I am in control of my dog 90% of the time, the other 10% being instances like this. I would like to prevent this but I am at a loss... how do I get the point across to him?


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

stop taking your agressive dog to a dog park. he has NO business being there


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

Yea as much as you want to bring him to there and it seems that would be the best way to socialize, you don't need the hassle of dealing with the liability of your dog really hurting another pup. Maybe if there is someone you have come to trust at the park or a friend or family member with another dog. You could schedule supervised and cautious sessions at home in your yard and slowly build up your dogs tolerance.


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## Nell (Oct 21, 2010)

No, unfortunately I don't have such a person, none of my friends own dogs, they all own cats. I unfortunately can't train a dog to not be jealous if I don't have other dogs he can interact with. 

Also, the dog is pretty social and very well behaved nearly all the time, and plays very well with other dogs, either that or he ignores them, the only two exceptions in over a year were those two isolated incidents. Most people in the dog park know him and are surprised at how quiet and well behaved he is, it's only one person that has problems with him. 

Are you going to tell me that even then he's to be isolated from other dogs? It doesn't seem like taking care of the problem so much as it seems like tip-toeing around it.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Putting other peoples dogs at risk for the sake of socilzing your own is simply unacceptable. Find another way to socilize him and deal with his problems that doesn't have him off leash around dogs that he could attack.


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## Nell (Oct 21, 2010)

So over two incidents, my otherwise friendly dog is a threat to all other dogs around him and needs to be completely isolated from other dogs. A complete convict. 
Are one or two incidents is all it takes for people to consider an otherwise good dog a deviant for life that needs to be locked away?
There's no advice to be had here it seems. Later folks, I'll look elsewhere.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Locked away? that would be the worst for him. He IS a danger to other dogs aparently at random which is what you said. he shouldn't be allowed *off leash *around other dogs untill you get a handle on his behavior. He will need lots of closly supervised time around other dogs but connected to you by a leash so you have immediate control.


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## katthevamp (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm surprised where hasn't been any mention of the fact he was alpha rolled....


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

Let us take a step back. I hope you continue to read the thread and haven't decided to ignore the advice given. There is plenty of suggestions to be had you just need to not be offended that the dog may be a hazard. ONE incident is enough to make the dog unpredictable at some place as social as a dog park. If you do not have friends or family with dogs then you need to enroll in an obedience class and ask them if they offer classes for dog socialization with other dogs. No one thinks your dog is a bad dog in any kind of way plenty of people have dogs that just don't do well with other animals and that never changes, it dosent mean that is the case with yours. I think the alpha roll is not used as often as it used to be but I am sure it is still used. Maybe with a dog that small it isn't really that necessary and honestly seems like it would put the dog in more stress. I have heard dogs meeting ON leash can make it worse because when a dog feels threatened they have to instincts flight or fight, when a dog is leashed they assume flight is out of the question so they resort to fighting. I would really suggest a class.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Nell said:


> ..... in two occasions he has attacked puppies without warning -_-, once over a stick, and in another occasion out of the blue. .....


Perhaps a good place to start would be to learn the actual 'precursors' to the event. IMO dogs will seldom, if ever, attack 'without warning' or 'out of the blue' as the OP says. Their body language and warnings may be extremely miniscule in size and lightning-fast, ... but they ARE there.

A certain degree of understanding, and a constant state of awareness and vigilance on the part of the handler will go a long way towards being pre-emptive, ... which should help to prevent problems BEFORE they occur.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

And, if the OP is still around, you'll notice several people said not to take him to the dog park, *but to find another way to socialize him.* This doesn't mean keeping him away from other dogs, locked up, by himself, it means find another way to get him used to other dogs. As a teacher, I've seen many playground games turn into fights because play can sometimes escalate when kids are excited. It's the same with dogs: when they're playing and excited, play can sometimes get aggressive, and turn into fights.
No one said keep him away from all dogs, just to find another way to get him used to other dogs.


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## Nell (Oct 21, 2010)

At the time I resorted to the alpha roll I needed to act quickly as it was right after biting another dog (I specifically broke it up in both occasions), making the total of times I've resorted to that two. I've researched the alpha roll (though I held his muzzle, not the throat), and I know now it is mostly discouraged, but at the time I needed to act immediately and it was the clearest, firmest non violent solution I could come up with ( I wasn't going to use voice commands with my dog biting and shaking another dog, and I can't bring myself to hit animals). I wanted to discourage the behaviour from ever happening again even if it meant shocking the dog into not doing it. 

This is extremely frustrating as he is well behaved and I've made a point of socializing him from day 1 and acting the alpha to him. Barring those two incidents, he is all you could ever want in a dog as far as obedience goes (he does very well with voice commands).
This is why I feel barring him from the park is too much. I do understand the concerns of the posters here, but 99% of the time he gets along well with other dogs or ignores them and is happiest with the park dogs. I'd rather muzzle him than take that away from him.

As for the incidents, during the first one (that has his owner upset at me currently), I made the mistake of bringing a stick we were playing with to the park from outside. Little dog starts chewing on the ends and pulling, pooch tries to keep the stick away, I take the stick away, pooch jumps the little dog, I scruff pooch the heck away ASAP. Little dog ended up with a cut on his head above the eye. This incident was my fault more than the dog's for bringing the stick in. 
Second one involved a lab puppy (bigger than he was actually) who kept cavorting towards him, running back and forth (sometimes trampling like big pups do). Not sure what ticked him off this time, but he jumped the lab pup, and I immediately scruffed him away. No injuries, and the little lab even kept trying to play with him after, albeit in a more subdued manner. Owner seemed way more relaxed about it than I was.

So there you have it. I think I'll just look into obedience training for possessive dogs/separation anxiety, as I am at a loss regarding what to do. The park has been his only means of socializing with other dogs since he was a puppy, really.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Scruffing and rolling your dog aren't going to help at all. There are a couple of things you should read:

First, this article.

And second, the book "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell. In it, she teaches you how to better understand dog behavior and pick up on the cues you are missing now. She also has a chapter on dominance and the alpha thing (and why it's wrong) that is a great read.

You should also read "He Just Wants to Say Hi!" here. It's a great article. (I recommend it because in the second instance you mentioned, it sounds like the lab pup was being rude and your dog was warning him... and reading that article will help you determine if that was so.)


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

I totally agree with Crantastic's book recommendation! It's a great book! Very good info, and a very fun read! 

To socialize your dog, without taking him to the dog park, consider lots of walks where you might encounter other dogs, the obedience class is also a great idea. AND, you can take him to any pet store, and some other types of stores allow dogs, too. The more you can get out and about the better!

The book Crantastic was talking about is great for getting you to focus on small physical cues or expressions that your dog may be making when he's upset or frustrated, so that you know when he's getting ready to blow, that way, you can take him away before that happens!


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## Everyday Miracles (Nov 14, 2010)

I bookmarked that second article, Crantastic. Very interesting reading, and something that I had never thought about before. I have seen dogs of "non-aggressive breeds" get very agitated before and have never given it a second thought since they weren't _my_ dogs. We will probably do most of our socializing on-lead with Libby, but it's still a good thing to be thinking about when you _do_ have an "aggressive breed."


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## JuneBud (Feb 17, 2010)

The second episode you mentioned sounds like a normal thing for a dog to do to an overenthusiastic puppy who is annoying him. The fact that the puppy came back in a more subdued fashion is a confirmation that the puppy learned a lession about being too pushy and took no offense. I wouldn't worry too much about that. The first episode probably caused by guarding behavior. Does he show any inclination to guard his toys or food in other situations?


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Nell said:


> So over two incidents, my otherwise friendly dog is a threat to all other dogs around him and needs to be completely isolated from other dogs. A complete convict.
> Are one or two incidents is all it takes for people to consider an otherwise good dog a deviant for life that needs to be locked away?
> There's no advice to be had here it seems. Later folks, I'll look elsewhere.


I bet you wouldn't think this way if your dog was one on the receiving end, esp if you had to pay some vet bills for any damage caused
(think he/she is still reading? LOL)


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Nell said:


> The park has been his only means of socializing with other dogs since he was a puppy, really.


At the end of the day, dogs don't HAVE to socialize with other dogs, ... 'really'.

especially at 'the park'


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