# I'm being threatened.



## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

So, as you all know, Lako has been in some very intense training. He's almost like a new dog! No more outbursts, or trying to charge anything that scares him. He has a happy 6 foot radius, and he can tolerate any dog that stays that far away from him.

Months ago, he charged a small pug that was barking and snarling it's face off at him and scaring him. Lako's collar snapped open and he went after the pug. No injuries at all, it was just a scare tactic (Scared the daylights out of all of us!) The lady who owns the pug was completely understanding at the time. Her bigger bulldog/pit cross had also had fear aggression issues and badly attacked a different dog, so she said she understood what we were going through.

Fast Forward a few months. She has completely changed her tune. She's yelled and screamed at us numerous times, and has even screamed at our trainer.

She's threatened to call By-Law on us because every time HER dog sees us, it goes ballistic at the end of the leash, just like it did when Lako first went after it.

Two weeks ago, she yelled at me to go to hell, and to stay off the public pathways, and that I had no right to be there. 

This weekend, she again threatened to call By-Law on us because we were doing some obedience training in front of our house, and her dog was barking at us from her balcony. :headwallblue: (she lives in the apartment building across the street from us) 

Part of me doesn't want to cause any trouble. And the other part of me knows that I'm NOT causing any trouble ! I'm minding my own business, have completely ignored her and gone about our training like our trainer has instructed us to do.

Just because HER dog is the one that goes ballistic now, isn't a good enough reason for her to scream and threaten us. I really want to tell her that HER dog should also be doing some intense training. 

Before anyone asks... Yes, we can do (and DO) obedience training inside the house, and in the backyard. However, we also need to do this training with distractions. If George is working and I don't have the truck, then I can't get to the dog park. So, our only option is to do it out front with lots of foot traffic, cats, kids, bikes, skateboards and other dogs going by.


----------



## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Do your have your dog on leash when you are doing obedience? If you have a dog that has had aggression issues in the past you should not be letting it off leash if it's not in a contained area. So if you do have him off leash in your unfenced yard, leash him.

If you ARE keeping him on leash, call the cops. What she's doing is verbal harassment/abuse and no one should have to put up with that.


----------



## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

Yes, he is absolutely on a leash 100% of the time! His recal is good, but not perfect, so he's never ever off the leash.


----------



## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Maybe you could walk a few blocks away to do your training? I'd like to say the law should be on your side but it doesn't always work like that :/. Especially if you have a "scary" breed.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I agree with calling the cops when she starts. If this is going to be her threat, take it away from her. Threatening and screaming and verbally assaulting you aren't okay.


----------



## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

Willowy said:


> Maybe you could walk a few blocks away to do your training? I'd like to say the law should be on your side but it doesn't always work like that :/. Especially if you have a "scary" breed.


Yes, we actually do that on a regular basis as well. However, if it's snowing, raining, or just plain old miserable outside, I'd prefer to stick close to home. I feel like I shouldn't have to be threatened away from my own location just to appease a crazy lady.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Since if your dog is on leash you aren't breaking any laws, the next time she threatens to call the police (which I'm assuming By-Laws are, I'm not familiar with that term) you can do one of two things, depending on your mood:

1. If you're in a pretty nice mood and want to make a real effort to de-escalate this whole mess, say something like "I'm sorry you're having trouble with your dog. Would you like the name of the trainer who really, really helped me with the same problem with Lako?"

2. If you're feeling salty and/or don't really care what your future relationship with her is like and/or you tried #1 and it didn't work: Say something like, "You know, you're right! Let me call them myself and we'll FINALLY get this all sorted out!" Then either whip out your cell phone and start dialing or go into your house as if you're going to dial your land line. 

Whether you actually call the authorities is up to you. My guess is it will just shut her up without actually having to call. She knows she's not going to call the police, she's just bullying you because she doesn't want to hear her dog going ballistic and scaring you into going inside is the fastest and easiest way to make that stop. But there's a chance she'll just find some other way to harass and annoy you.


----------



## MRVivekB (Jun 21, 2014)

If she continues to berate and harass you for just walking your dog, remind her in a stern voice that "By yelling at me, you are committing assault. I will call the police as I don't know when this will turn into battery." (Battery is physical interaction assault is verbal).

And if she keeps yelling, call the cops. Overtly, in front of her, and make sure 911 hears the words "I'm concerned for my safety". When the police come out, insist on having a police report filled out with her name and your name, so you have a written audit trail.

make a BIG PRODUCTION out of the call. Use the words "Please leave me alone, please don't hit me". 

Verbal assault/bullying are NOT okay, and i'm sorry you have to go through this. But if you stand up to her, then she won't have a next victim. Don't stand up to her, and you're reinforcing that bullying=gets what she wants.


----------



## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

My advice is to know the bylaws and what breeds your you're allowed to have and what your insurance covers or doesn't cover. When people mention bylaws it tells me you are either in an apartment or condo complex. If you're allowed to have your breed of dog (which appears to be a German Shepard) then make a formal complaint against this person. I have lived in a condo complex and they do have certain bylaws about everything, we weren't allowed to have our dogs outside without being there with them - no tie outs. You may not have any rights IF your breed is not allowed.

If the abuse continues to happen then I would video tape a few incidents and then go to the community board and or police with the evidence and make a formal complaint. IMO you want to show that your dog is acting correctly whereas the other dog is not. I would also carry the video (I'm thinking a GoPro) around with you just in case you meet up with this person as you walk your dog. 

Obviously it is your fault her dog is acting this way LOL. I understand that there was an incident but the other dog wasn't physically hurt and unfortunately her dog now has an issue that needs to be worked on. If the incident was because a collar broke as you said then it really is no fault of yours ... stuff happens ... which is why we have the word accident!


----------



## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

I guess you guys don't have By-Laws like we do here in Canada. A By-Law is a "mini law" that can be different from city to city. It's still a LAW, and it has to be followed, but it may not necessarily be the same in each city.

Eg, in Ottawa, it is against the By-Law to have your dog on a leash longer than 3 meters. So, those extendable leashes are against the law in the city of Ottawa, but may be perfectly legal, say, in Toronto.

It's also against the By-Law to have any dog off leash at any time (no matter how perfectly trained!) unless you are in a designated dog park.

I assume her threats to call By-Law would be to report my "Vicious" animal. Or to report that I'm causing a disturbance, or some nonsense like that.

The only breed that is against the law to own in Ontario is a "PitBull". Stupid law!

I've read and re-read the by-laws at least half a dozen times over the past 6 months. I am well within my rights, and have certainly not broken any laws!


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Ah, here we call those city ordinances. And you would call the police to register a complaint if you thought someone was violating an ordinance.


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I think in the states we just refer to them as laws (or maybe ordinances). For example, it's against the law to talk on a hand-held cellphone in the city of Philadelphia, but not in the surrounding communities or some cities have curfews whereas others don't.

Is there anything in the by-laws about harassment?


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I would be concerned about two issues ... in the States:
1. She complains to the apartment management and they decide that they don't want the trouble, and ask you to leave. Regardless of law.
2. Something happens and she calls the police and sues you in Small Claims Court. You may be right, but you may have the cost and hassle of proving it.

For that reason, I echo what a few others suggested ... but for a different reason:
1. Ask someone to make a video of what you are doing, including her barking dog ... and maybe her barking also 
2. At some point, either call the police or go down to the station and explain the situation, asking for advice. I also like the idea of asking them to write a report, to simply document your side of the story, long before the neighbor can make any claims...


----------



## mtnrat (Jul 20, 2014)

I would do #2 from above. I would go see the bylaw officer and explain the situation, so if he/she gets the call from crazy lady you have already made the preemptive move.


----------



## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Here's the problem with contacting the cops, just something to think about before you make a decision: Sometimes it doesn't go your way. Especially if you're part of a stigmatized group (and having a dog of a certain breed counts). I have a Rottweiler and I would never call the cops unless I could manage the situation so that they would have no access to him, or any of my dogs, at all. Not even behind a fence.

It very well could happen that you call the cops to complain about her behavior and she says "THAT DOG BIT ME!!!". Well, guess what? You can't prove he didn't. And if the cops are predisposed to think that dogs of that breed will bite, your dog could end up totally dead and nothing you can do about it. Or as one person put it, don't ever call the cops unless you want someone (or some dog) to end up dead, because that's always a distinct possibility.


----------



## MRVivekB (Jun 21, 2014)

in that case don't even bring the dog out. The point to make with the police isn't the dog, its the person. She could just as easily be threatening you about the color of your shoes. If thats a concern, say "I'm concerned for my safety. (note - not the dog) She's yelling about a dog, but I wonder if its something else. Either way, she needs to stop assaulting me."

The dog could be in the house the whole time. If you want, as you see the police come up, scatter 30 high value treats on the ground so he's even better behaved than normal as he's focused on the food.


----------



## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If she tells the cops the dog bit her or "menaced" her (this counts as an attack in some places), it won't matter where the dog is at the time; they can start proceedings to have the dog seized and killed. When someone is flat-out crazy like that you really want to keep your distance.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea I think she'd have to provide some kind of proof of that (medical records or something) before a dog would be seized and killed.

In 99% of the USA, anyway. Maybe not the area immediately surrounding you?


----------



## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Here's the problem with contacting the cops, just something to think about before you make a decision: Sometimes it doesn't go your way. Especially if you're part of a stigmatized group (and having a dog of a certain breed counts). I have a Rottweiler and I would never call the cops unless I could manage the situation so that they would have no access to him, or any of my dogs, at all. Not even behind a fence.
> 
> It very well could happen that you call the cops to complain about her behavior and she says "THAT DOG BIT ME!!!". Well, guess what? You can't prove he didn't. And if the cops are predisposed to think that dogs of that breed will bite, your dog could end up totally dead and nothing you can do about it. Or as one person put it, don't ever call the cops unless you want someone (or some dog) to end up dead, because that's always a distinct possibility.


That's a bit rash... cops don't just turn around and shoot a dog on hearsay. Sure, events have occurred in which the officer feels threatened by a dog and does unfortunately shoot, however it's incredibly rare and is often overplayed by media. 

If you're being threatened OP, then yes you should call the police even if it's just to have it on record with them that there is a domestic dispute between yourself and your neighbor.


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Yea I think she'd have to provide some kind of proof of that (medical records or something) before a dog would be seized and killed.
> 
> In 99% of the USA, anyway. Maybe not the area immediately surrounding you?





> That's a bit rash... cops don't just turn around and shoot a dog on hearsay. Sure, events have occurred in which the officer feels threatened by a dog and does unfortunately shoot, however it's incredibly rare and is often overplayed by media.
> 
> If you're being threatened OP, then yes you should call the police even if it's just to have it on record with them that there is a domestic dispute between yourself and your neighbor.


This. Plus, the OP is in Canada. I've yet to hear of a single incident of cop's shooting a dog here, AND, they don't seize and euth a dog without proof that a bite occurred, and even then they don't generally seize a dog unless it has multiple bites on record.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yeah if you are in your own yard on a leash minding your own business you could just ignore her I have found that an MP3 player and some ear buds solves the problem of having to listen to her, you can just gesture to your ears with a clueless "I can't hear you!" And you could use her screaming and her dogs barking as an opportunity to train with distractions  . I say ignore her) and let HER call the cops if she wants to and then go from there, just out your dog inside if you don't feel safe having them out there with you and tell them what you have been doing.

I am also pretty sure that she will have to produce vet records and medical records proving that she and /or her dog were injured and I am sure that there is a limitation (at least in the US, not sure about Canada) on how much time she has to do that even. 

Can't say what you should do, but I would just ignore the crazy woman.


----------



## mtnrat (Jul 20, 2014)

It would not be the cops that you go to in Canada. It is the by-law officer which is an employee of the district or municipality, who try to enforce bylaws that have to do with animal control, yard cleanliness, keeping your sidewalk clear of snow etc. A pretty low level person usually and most are pretty easy to get along with and discuss issues. They don't like to use the big stick, so an introduction and explanation of the situation can go a long way, especially if you come across as a reasonable person.


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Kuma'sMom said:


> This. Plus, the OP is in Canada. I've yet to hear of a single incident of cop's shooting a dog here, AND, they don't seize and euth a dog without proof that a bite occurred, and even then they don't generally seize a dog unless it has multiple bites on record.





mtnrat said:


> It would not be the cops that you go to in Canada. It is the by-law officer which is an employee of the district or municipality, who try to enforce bylaws that have to do with animal control, yard cleanliness, keeping your sidewalk clear of snow etc. A pretty low level person usually and most are pretty easy to get along with and discuss issues. They don't like to use the big stick, so an introduction and explanation of the situation can go a long way, especially if you come across as a reasonable person.


Canada sounds so civilized (compared to some areas of the US).


----------



## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

cookieface said:


> Canada sounds so civilized (compared to some areas of the US).


Right?? The US feels like a nation full of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals sometimes.


----------



## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Kuma'sMom said:


> This. Plus, the OP is in Canada. I've yet to hear of a single incident of cop's shooting a dog here, AND, they don't seize and euth a dog without proof that a bite occurred, and even then they don't generally seize a dog unless it has multiple bites on record.


There was a dog shot in my city this year...but I'm with the other in stating that speaking with the by-law officers/cops is a good idea. Having a paper trail before she goes off her rocker is a good idea.


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Bylaw enforcement officers aren't permitted to carry guns in Canada. As far as I know, only police, armoured car personnel, and post 9-11 border guards were added to the list. Aside from that, no one. 

I was speaking with a friend last night who told me in the past she had worked with a driver in a private company, delivering hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of currency to ATM's on a nightly basis. No guns.

Humane society personnel wear flak jackets sometimes. I find that kind of laughable, maybe even overkill here in Canada. Still, no guns.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yeah, some people in the US be cray cray, cops included!

OP I am sorry you are going through this, I hope you find a solution and please keep us posted.


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

cookieface said:


> Canada sounds so civilized (compared to some areas of the US).


It's pretty wonderful, you should come here!


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Kuma'sMom said:


> It's pretty wonderful, you should come here!


Perhaps you didn't notice my comment about 65 degrees being cool on the dog coat thread. I'd need a perma-parka.  Katie would love the snow - it's like sand but tastes better.


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Kuma'sMom said:


> It's pretty wonderful, you should come here!


 Seconding the motion . Mrs Boats and others, you should come too, we have a pretty liberal immigration policy. AND we have Susan Garrett, lol, she's just around the corner from me.

Anyways, back to topic. I bet the op doesn't think this is such as wonderful place, not at the moment at least.


----------



## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Kuma'sMom said:


> It's pretty wonderful, you should come here!


Hmm maybe after winter! I went to Canada once for lunch. It was absolutely beautiful! The food was good too. 

I say video one of these episodes and then go talk to a by-law officer and ask for advice. Just be sure you get the officers name if you go that route.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Kuma'sMom said:


> It's pretty wonderful, you should come here!


I would also but being that I am suffering here and it's 45 degrees with a low of 30 ... I dont think Canada is the place for me lol


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

cookieface said:


> Perhaps you didn't notice my comment about 65 degrees being cool on the dog coat thread. I'd need a perma-parka.  Katie would love the snow - it's like sand but tastes better.


Lol, then maybe only visit Manitoba in the summer, you don't want to know how cold it gets here in winter!

Back on topic, I would absolutely call the police and report this woman for harassment if I were the OP.


----------



## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Yea, we do the summer thing too! And here on the coast the temps are much less extreme. I don't think I could survive on the prairies in summer OR winter!

Edit: Still no snow here.


----------



## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

I would definitely call and report the harassment, each time it happens (or at least the times where it is significant). Crazy people like that make me worry....are they going to escalate, and if they escalate, how will your dog react! If it is on record that there have been a lot of incidents that this lady has started, and something finally does happen it might help to have it on record that she is antagonizing you and your dog, she might have less to stand on if you get blamed for any incident.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Also, maybe you could set up a video camera system, maybe use your Webcam to record, point it out a window facing her house and your front yard, make sure you get yourself in the shot, showing you are staying on your own property and not harassing her or provoking her in anyway.

Unless the rules on doing that are different in Canada, I am not sure.


----------



## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Also, maybe you could set up a video camera system, maybe use your Webcam to record, point it out a window facing her house and your front yard, make sure you get yourself in the shot, showing you are staying on your own property and not harassing her or provoking her in anyway.
> 
> Unless the rules on doing that are different in Canada, I am not sure.


As far as I know you can film yourself/your own property, but you can't film/photograph someone else's without their consent. If someone set up a camera to view my house/yard I would be MAJORLY creeped out.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> As far as I know you can film yourself/your own property, but you can't film/photograph someone else's without their consent. If someone set up a camera to view my house/yard I would be MAJORLY creeped out.


Oh, see here you can do that as long as the camera is on your property and you blur their face if you don't have consent to film them.


----------



## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Admittedly I don't know for sure what the specific laws are, but how could filming someone's house without their consent be considered anything less than stalking behaviour?

I know there are different laws if you are using the captured material for profit (photo or video).


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> Admittedly I don't know for sure what the specific laws are, but how could filming someone's house without their consent be considered anything less than stalking behaviour?
> 
> I know there are different laws if you are using the captured material for profit (photo or video).


Of course, the OP should check on the laws in their area because laws differ from area to area.


----------



## MRVivekB (Jun 21, 2014)

In california you can film public spaces without consent. But someone's house or yard is off limits. I actually saw a (questionable looking) guy detained by the police just last week as he was tirading against someone filming him at the train station, the cops kept saying "its legal to film in public, you can't do anything about that".


----------



## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

MRVivekB said:


> In california you can film public spaces without consent. But someone's house or yard is off limits. I actually saw a (questionable looking) guy detained by the police just last week as he was tirading against someone filming him at the train station, the cops kept saying "its legal to film in public, you can't do anything about that".


Yea I was under the impression it was legal to film people in public unless you're using the filmed content for profit and/or mass distributing it?, in which case you need their consent to use their image.

I was reading a debate a while ago about a vlogging family (people who film their lives and upload to YouTube as a way of making a living) that filmed a pizza delivery person without that person's knowledge/consent. And not just in passing, but engaged her in conversation for the purpose of filming it, etc.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I am not talking about filming the person the person and posting it on you tube or something, I don't think engine suggested that? All the video would be (if need be) for police use ONLY.


----------



## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

C/P:

In the US (Texas for sure) there are 4 different ways you can violate privacy, but I think only 3 are relevant for this (maybe just 2):

1) Intrusion into solitude-reasonable expectation of privacy comes into play here; trespassing; not getting consent to use an image/recording, disguising yourself and getting information under false pretenses. Also, for clarification: expectation of privacy usually applies to what you can see with your eyes naturally without enhancement (such as a telescope lens, or zoom on a camera). So I stand on the road or public sidewalk and point a camera at your front door and you are standing in the doorway, taking a picture is fair game (from what I remember). Obviously sticking my face over your window or fence is violating the _expectation_ of privacy you hold on your private property.

2) Public disclosure of private facts-publishing someone's medical records is an easy example. However, public interest CAN override this. Can't think of a specific example when, but yeah.

3) Use of a person's likeness for profit-using someone's image or name commercially without their consent and/or payment. Usually happens to celebrites/big name people but can happen to private citizens I'm sure.


----------



## DGerry (Sep 12, 2014)

SDRRanger said:


> There was a dog shot in my city this year...but I'm with the other in stating that speaking with the by-law officers/cops is a good idea. Having a paper trail before she goes off her rocker is a good idea.


This, absolutely. You should be reporting these behaviors so that, at the very least, if she decides to go full-crazy you'll have a paper-trail showing that you expressed concerns over her behavior many times in the past.



ireth0 said:


> As far as I know you can film yourself/your own property, but you can't film/photograph someone else's without their consent. If someone set up a camera to view my house/yard I would be MAJORLY creeped out.


In Canada, if the person is in a public place or in a place visible by the public(and in this case, "public" refers to "open to the public" and so would include private businesses that anyone can enter, etc) then you can photograph(and I'm assuming take video of as well) them without their consent. If the person is communicating with you, you have implied permission to record these communications as Canadian law operates under "one party consent", which is to say that if a group of people are communicating then any person who is an intended recipient of said communication is entitled to record the exchange without permission and without notifying the other parties involved. I'm not entirely sure on the legality of sharing said recordings with a third party, but I haven't yet seen that it's illegal. Regardless, at least in this case, the purpose of the recording would simply be to have a record of it for any police investigation that might take place. As another poster mentioned, generally speaking the law looks at things from the perspective of "Did this person have a reasonable expectation of privacy?" I don't think any court in the land would find that a crazy lady screaming at you from her balcony had any reason to expect her actions would remain private.

If you take the time to report her behavior you probably won't need recordings(a judge would consider the fact that you have documented your concerns over her behavior multiple times), but they couldn't hurt. After-all, if you're out training your dog and your dog is being calm and her dog is going ballistic, it's much more likely that she's the one in violation of the law. Most cities in Ontario have noise bylaws that state that "persistent" noise by an animal is a violation regardless of the time of day. Barking for a few seconds, maybe even up to a minute probably wouldn't be considered persistent but several minutes probably would be. "Persistent" is not explicitly defined, so as far as I know it would be up to the judge.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CrimsonAccent said:


> C/P:
> 
> In the US (Texas for sure) there are 4 different ways you can violate privacy, but I think only 3 are relevant for this (maybe just 2):
> 
> ...


Thats what I was saying, I wasnt telling the OP to point a camera at the woman's house and ZOOM IN ON HER, though I was on my phone when I typed that and it is hard to proof read on a small screen LOL. 

I suggested that she point the camera, at normal zoom (like what a person would see if they looked out their window into their yard) to have proof that they are in their own yard and not harassing their neighbor, then if she comes out of her house, yelling and carrying on at them, they will have documented proof of that.

But me? I would just put a pair of headphones on and tune the **** out myself.


----------

