# I am at my wits end with my 11 month old Lab



## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

I am completely frustrated. We have had casey, 11months since 8 weeks. She has gone to dog obedience twice. She seems to be getting worse. She barks uncontrollably, we tried bark collar and she barks even though she gets jolts. She is obsessive Compulsive and has licked her paws raw! She plays non stop and after an hour of ball throwing, doesnt stop barking and gets rude with us. She is obsessed with me and wont let me sit down even for a minute. If I sit, she wiggles non stop all around me and wont leave me alone until I leave the room. She steals everything in site, wont let us put the collar on unless we tackle her, (gentle Leader). Tips over her food because she wants me to hand feed her! Jumps in to the pool after us and is so agressive she tries to pull our 10 year old under. She wont behave on walks. The vet says she is OCD and high anxiety and placed her on Atriptyline. 75mgs. Doesnt really faze her. The Vet said he doesn't feel she will grow out of this. We tried a sling muzzle to stop her from barking and she tore her face raw trying to get it off, so we wont use this again. We have done everything by the book. Consistant reward positive reinforcement. She is destroying our family. We are so tired because we all get us 4 or 5 times a night because she barks non stop inside or outside the house. I know this is very long but needed to get it all out! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Through this all, we really love her!


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

What were the parent's temperaments? What has the breeder advised you as to the normal temperament of those lines?

Pretty much sounds like a lab puppy to me.


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

The Breeder said that both parents were of very calm temperment. We met the parents and they were very well behaved. The mom and dad were 4 and 5 yrs of age. Casey just wont calm down even when you try to pet her or massage her. Just cant stop moving. If this is "Normal", please tell me when does it get better so we can enjoy our dog. We have been extremely patient with her.


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

Bailey,

Your lab really sounds like more than a handful. I have known people with labs before and yes I have heard they are high energy dogs but you dog sounds nuts. If your vet put her on meds and they are not working I would talk to some other trainers or behavioulists.

Even in humans. 2 mentally sound people can have a baby and the child could wind up retarded or bi-polar or all kinds of things. 

This is a dog. Not that we do not value thier lives the same as humans but they are not the same as humans. If he has some kind of mental disorder maybe it is better to put him to sleep.


I dont meant to sound cruel but it its a thought. I am not even saying you should because I do not know your dog. But I have heard some dogs just arent right in the head. 

I would 1st talk to some other dog experts. Sorry to hear of all your going through.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

alright putting that dog to sleep is not fair at all! the dog is not in pain, and there is nothing hindering its quality of life. talk to your vet if you havent yet and let him know its not working, he might be able to perscribe you something different that may work better. if it is Ob. Com. (i dont want to say OCD because OCD is actually also osteochondritis and i dont want anyone confused) the only treatment for it is medication. a behaviorist cant fix it, its mental. some things you can do to help are taking long walks (but that might not work, i know you said walking isnt fun) playing, anything to keep your pup occupied and try to get him tired. im sorry you have to deal with that, it can be so frusterating. but talk to your vet and see if there is anything else you can try. my pup has a very mild ob. com., she has to stick her head under things when she sleeps. its always nice to get a cold wet nose in your armpit or under your back when youre sleeping! i hope things get better, but i dont think putting him down is a very humane way to deal with this. maybe you might just need to rehome him if you cant deal with it anymore, and if so, to a person who has dealt with it before and is experienced. good luck


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Has your dog had a thorough vet check-up? If your dog is licking her paws raw, she's obviously uncomfortable, and if she's doing so because of an allergy, much of her behavior can be explained due to discomfort. Even a simple touch can be uncomfortable if it's some sort of medical condition. So please have your dog throughly checked by a vet, more than a simple physical. 

Then, if there's no conclusions from that, have your dog assessed by a certified behaviorist.


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## RichmondTrainer (Sep 24, 2007)

I agree with "Great Dane Mom" - do NOT euthanize your dog! I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to step on any toes (I just joined this forum!) but that was a very unreasonable suggestion, especially considering that it sounds like you haven't exhausted all of your options (although I know YOU are exhausted!)

First of all, at 11 months of age, dogs are in the adolescent period, regardless of breed. Typically, the larger the breed, the longer the adolescent period will last. Think about HUMAN adolescence, and you will get a basic understanding of what your dog is going through.... she is a 4-legged teenager! Yes, labs are very energetic, but so are most dogs that age. 

The biggest thing your dog needs - again, agreeing with "Great Dane Mom" - is EXERCISE. One of the things I hear the most from my clients when I make that suggestion is, "Well, we have X acres and he gets to run around all day!" That is wonderful, but in my opinion, dogs need two kinds of exercise: yes, they need the "free time," but they need an equal amount of (if not MORE) STRUCTURED exercise.... leash-walking, agility, etc. Those games of fetch can be turned into a structured exercise - when I play fetch with my dogs, they all know that they have to "drop it" and "sit" before I will throw the ball again. You can also play "hide and seek" to help exert some of the hunting/prey drive - you may have to start out using a leash, but hide some food or toys around your house or yard, and cue Casey to "find it." When she does, give her lots of praise and get EXCITED. One of my favorite quotes from a book I've read says, "If your neighbors aren't calling the men in the white coats, you aren't training your dog properly." Don't be afraid to use your body to communicate with your dog! Remember - she doesn't speak English! She only hears "blah blah CASEY blah blah NO blah blah SIT blah blah." However, I KNOW she is reading every little movement you make, and she is probably getting a much different message than you think you're giving!

Two of my favorite books about dog behavior are Think Dog by John Fisher (basic info on how to establish yourself as the leader, as well as a lot of other behavior stuff) and The Other End of the Leash by Patricia B. McConnell, Ph.D. (EXCELLENT book addressing body language and how to _correctly_ communicate with your dog, or ANY dog, for that matter!) 

I'm sure you don't want to put Casey to sleep, and to be honest, reading your post (and the replies) made me join this forum. Don't give up on her - I really can't believe your vet said she wouldn't grow out of it... even though I've never met her, I would at least think you'd want to wait until her adolescence is over before saying something like that. You may also consider speaking to another vet and contacted a REPUTABLE dog BEHAVIORIST (not just a trainer) in your area. You can look on the Association of Pet Dog Trainers website (http://www.apdt.com) to help you get started.

Oh, and I almost forgot - the fact that she's licking her paws so much is likely a sign of allergies - dogs can get them too! My oldest dog has food and environmental allergies that we've been dealing with since he was about a year old. He goes to a Veterinary Dermatologist (I had no idea they even existed!,) gets allergy shots, eats special food, etc. If Casey DOES have allergies, this would explain a LOT about her behavior. Dylan acts quite "nutty" when he's having problems with his! 

Please feel free to send me an e-mail (I check that often, and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be on this forum today.) As I said before, DON'T GIVE UP!


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't really think putting the dog to sleep is the answer either. A lot this sounds like my 11 month old Lab. Especially, the constant wanting of attention, can play for hours non stop, walks and the barking. My Lab has an "attitude" as well. Some of this may need to be controlled with meds, and like GreatDaneMom, suggested if the medication that he/she is taking now isn't working, then maybe you need to try a different dosage or another kind all together. Maybe you need to even try a different vet. Which I would do after giving this vet one more try to figure out something that works. Then I'd get a second opinion.
To me, it sounds like this dog has A LOT and I mean A LOT of pent up energy, that is difficult and trying with a breed that is normally high energy anyway. With my Lab, we are dealing with several behavioral issues with him as well and his trainer suggested agility training. With my Lab, physical activity isn't enough to keep him mellow, he needs to work his mind as well. Doing agility would do both at the same time. We are seriously considering it, not for competition though. I'm not interested in doing that. Really what you need to do is soul-search and think about how far your willing to go with your dog. Will you and are you able to do what is necessary to help your dog? Medically and/or physically? If you aren't then maybe you could look into Lab rescues in order to rehome her with someone who will be able to do what is necessary for her to become well adjusted. Also, is this dog really aggressive, meaning she does things to purposely hurt another person or animal? Or is it behavior that is so excited that she inadvertently hurts another person? It is very easy to tell the difference. My Lab *IS* food aggressive and that behavior is *VERY VERY *different than him jumping on me and knocking me down in excitement.

Also, I'd like to add, with your dog licking her paws like that is a classic sign of allergies. If your vet hasn't investigated that further, that alone would be an indication that another vet is needed. In my mind, that is a major foul up on the vet's part! 

Good Luck!


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

I have a couple of concerns. 

First euthanizing a dog because you can't handle her behavior is not fair so I would disregard that piece of advise (I know you didn't say it) 

My concern is that you are so fed up that you are not seeing normal puppy behavior and you are seeing some behavior that is not normal and is over the top but you are also seeing normal puppy behavior as annoying at this point and as much more than it is..... for example your dog is not aggressively trying to drown your ten year old, dogs don't understand drowning all your dog wants to do is play in the pool.... THAT IS NORMAL ..... if you are fed up with your dog and are unable at this point to see any good in your pup then it is time to consider rehoming her as the relationship may be irreperably damaged.... I am concerned when someone thinks an 11 mos. old dog is deliberately trying to drown family members in an aggressive manor.... 

your dog loves you and wants to be with you..... you are seeing that as annoying and a problem..... 

your dog wants to play with you and swim wiht you.... you are viewing that as aggressive..... 

your dog wants to play and play and play.... well that is normal behavior for an 11 mos old labrador.... 

good dogs are made..... you cant compare a 4-5 year old with a year old baby.... you also have to consider that consistency is key in any training so it is up to you to figure out and be honest about whether you and your training is consistent.... 

I agree with the others about the allergies..... I would also have a thyroid panel done to rule out a thyroid issue..... and some of the other medical advice from others who posted.... 

I also think that puppyhood is over rated as a general rule and while they are adorable they are not easy and they are what we make them.... 

it may be a better option to rehome your puppy and get an older dog..... I can't say I don't have some real concerns that while you love her.... you are viewing this entire problem as your dogs problem..... and a dog is a dog... while there may be other issues happening, it is up to us to fix them and the question is whether you are up to that or have the time to see that process through. 
s


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

I was not implying that right away the dog should be put down. 

The fact that the vet put the dog on some sort of "mood" medication sounded like the dog had some kind of mental problem and if the meds did not work I can only imagine the dog will get worse in time not better.

Either the dog can be some ones pet or not. It sounds like a wild animal to me. and I have met some pretty wild dogs before but nothing like this dog sounds.

Anyway definately putting a dog down is a last LAST resort.


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## applesmom (Jun 9, 2007)

Can you give us an idea of Caseys daily routine? That might give us a better picture of what the overall problem might be.


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

Shalva said:


> I have a couple of concerns.
> 
> First euthanizing a dog because you can't handle her behavior is not fair so I would disregard that piece of advise (I know you didn't say it)
> 
> ...



Shalva, and I am not disagreeing with you in an angry way. I have huge respect for you and your advice and see you as very knowledgable and a reputable breeder.

How do you know the dog is not being aggressive. Maybe it does have some sort of mental problem? Maybe poorly bred with an inherited horrible temperment problem?


Maybe the dog is nuts. With all the puppy mills around I am willing to bet their are quite a few dogs that can not be helped to be a "good dog" because of the bad breeding. and parents not having the proper testing done before breeding?


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

Welcome to the wonderful world of labs. I had one and it was pretty much the same thing. Don't give up on him - he is still a baby. Labs are babies for SO long. I know, easy for me to say. Best of luck to you.


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## RichmondTrainer (Sep 24, 2007)

Shalva said:


> your dog loves you and wants to be with you..... you are seeing that as annoying and a problem.....
> 
> your dog wants to play with you and swim wiht you.... you are viewing that as aggressive.....
> 
> ...


*Well said!!*


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

peace36... im glad YOU dont have this dog. this dog is not "mental" alright? hes a puppy! and even if the actions were "agressive" (which i dont think they are at all) thats something that can be worked on and fixed. you sound like someone who wouldnt invest much time in a dog like this. and thats exactly what this dog needs, time, and effort. you cant just look at a behavior such as his and say "oh hes mental that cant be fixed". i think this dog has a lot of potential, and just has an owner that is looking for some guidence. it seems all you want to say is that the dog has mental problems, you have offered no REAL solution to the "problem" but your suggestion of putting him down, which is completely asinine.


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

Peace, you said this lab sounds like "a wild animal" to you. Maybe you're seeing something that the rest of us aren't, but personally, I'm seeing a lab puppy.

Granted, my Zoe is not this difficult, in large part because we don't let her be. However, my 6 month old golden retriever continues to exhibit many of these behaviors if she has not had enough exercise or we are not consistent with our training. Every single day she either goes to doggy day care for 8 or 9 hours of playing, or she goes on a long walk to the park to run off leash and play with other dogs for an hour or so, plus an afternoon walk. In either case, we take another ~45 minute walk at night, and play some fetch or chase games for however long she needs to finally release all of her energy. If we don't do all this activity, she can be a monster. So if she's not being a lovely angel, we know that it is our fault that we did not allow her to get enough exercise (and if she's really acting up and bothering us, we put on our shoes, grab the leash, and take another walk).



bailey1459 said:


> She barks uncontrollably, we tried bark collar and she barks even though she gets jolts.


First, "jolting" her for barking is not good at all. You need to make sure she knows that barking will not get her attention and make sure she is well exercised in order to reduce her need to bark. There are ways to train a "quiet" command, as well. Some dogs do bark more than others though, and you will never stop her from barking entirely. Besides, you may want her to bark someday to let you know that she's not feeling well or that she smells/hears someone sneaking around outside...



> She is obsessive Compulsive and has licked her paws raw!


See others' posts about allergies. Give her sterilized bones, stuffed kongs, bully sticks, etc. to keep her occupied so she is not thinking about her paws.



> She plays non stop and after an hour of ball throwing, doesnt stop barking and gets rude with us.


I can imagine what you mean by "rude," and I'd imagine it's just a revved up dog looking for more more more! First, you really need to make sure she has had enough exercise to actually be tired. Fetching a ball won't be enough (see what others' have said about mentally stimulating exercise. I also suggest playing with other dogs--it tires them out unbelievably fast). Once she is getting more exercise, then you need to teach her that when you say game over, the game is over. You take the ball and put it away and ignore her pleas for more. Once she has settled down and is behaving again, you can play some more.



> She is obsessed with me and wont let me sit down even for a minute. If I sit, she wiggles non stop all around me and wont leave me alone until I leave the room.


She loves you, and she's a velcro dog. Most people want their dogs to do this. You just want her to be more tired so that when she comes over to you, she will just lay down near you and behave.



> She steals everything in site, wont let us put the collar on unless we tackle her, (gentle Leader).


Stealing things is fun! Whatever you don't want her to steal needs to be out of her reach. Have you crate trained her? She should be in a crate or in a dog proof area when you can't watch her to ensure she doesn't get something dangerous. Remember, she's a retriever, she interacts with the world by using her mouth.

Zoe goes nuts over the collar sometimes, too, mostly because she's so excited to walk. Is she excited or does she hate the collar?



> Tips over her food because she wants me to hand feed her!


You shouldn't hand feed her, period. If she tips over her food, leave it on the floor. If she won't eat out of a bowl, just take it away. She'll get hungry soon enough, and then she'll eat.



> Jumps in to the pool after us and is so agressive she tries to pull our 10 year old under.


Lots of dogs go nuts for water, Zoe included. She probably feels uncomfortable that she can't reach the bottom and is grabbing onto you to support herself. Zoe does this to us, but she's still small enough that it isn't a big deal. However, a big lab could definitely push a small person under, without meaning anything aggressively. If your dog was snarling, growling, baring teeth, and/or biting your 10 year old, I would agree that she might be aggressive. But she's not trying to drown your child, she's just trying to play. Consider getting her a life vest so that she can stay afloat more easily and hopefully will not push at your child anymore.



> She wont behave on walks.


She probably needs to run like crazy before she can walk. Believe it or not, dogs walk better when they are a little tired--it takes all their energy to focus on the walk and they don't have much left to goof around. Proper walking takes a lot of time and patience. You should have a trainer give you tips on technique and tools, and then you will need to practice it consistently for a long time, especially since she has gotten full grown without learning to walk properly.



> The vet says she is OCD and high anxiety and placed her on Atriptyline. 75mgs. Doesnt really faze her. The Vet said he doesn't feel she will grow out of this.


Maybe I don't know the whole story, but I can't understand why a vet would prescribe medication and make comments like this without first testing for allergies and making sure she has enough exercise. Except for the paw licking, which could be allergies, she sounds like a classic case of hyperactive dog to me.



> We tried a sling muzzle to stop her from barking and she tore her face raw trying to get it off, so we wont use this again.


Muzzles are not for preventing barking. I'm glad you won't use it again.



> We are so tired because we all get us 4 or 5 times a night because she barks non stop inside or outside the house.


She should have a bedtime routine (crate, dog bed, wherever she sleeps). At this point, she certainly shouldn't need potty trips in the middle of the night. She stays in her area until you wake up in the morning and bring her outside. She can bark herself hoarse, but she does not get to go somewhere else. You have inadvertantly encouraged her to bark by getting up and responding to her barking.


I emphasize that a tired dog is a good dog. Labs can have a LOT of energy, which is why I don't understand why so many people have them--they are by no means an easy dog to own. You may be exhausted, but your dog is clearly not. If she was truly and thoroughly tired, I bet most of these behaviors would greatly improve and hopefully stop altogether. You should consider doggy day care, or start practicing agility or flyball or something. Day care can be expensive, but seeing how good your dog is after playing with doggy friends for 8 hours makes it worth every penny. Hire a dog walker if you can't keep up with her. You need to get her tired out, or she'll only tire you out more by driving you crazy. She will probably grow out of some of her hyperactivity, but it can take 2-3 years before she is no longer a puppy...and I've known labs who finally started to settle down and lose their energy somewhat when they were 10!!

You have a lot of work to do, and it's not going to be easy. If you're not up to it, you need to be honest with yourself and find a lab rescue very soon, while she's still young enough to adjust to a new home and get trained very easily. 

I wish you lots of luck and hope that soon you have a wonderful, well-behaved, _tired_ dog!!


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

peace36 said:


> Shalva, and I am not disagreeing with you in an angry way. I have huge respect for you and your advice and see you as very knowledgable and a reputable breeder.
> 
> How do you know the dog is not being aggressive. Maybe it does have some sort of mental problem? Maybe poorly bred with an inherited horrible temperment problem?
> 
> ...


first off thanks for the compliments.... 

however, 
what the poster is viewing as aggressive is that the dog is trying to pull their ten year old under the water.... that would require that this 11 mos old puppy understand death, understand that drowning causes death, understand that he can facilitate that by pulling a ten year old under the water, have malice toward the ten year old AND understand that in water a dog CAN pull a ten year old under the water. A puppy or an adult dog does not have the intellectual ability or forethought or premeditative thought to comprehend any of these things..... even when a DOG IS aggressive they do not understand the concept of death and drowning.... they are responding instinctually and the aggression is more often fear based than anything else.... 

now I am not saying that there is not the possibility that this dog has issues, but judging from what the op said, I am concerned about the ability and willingness of this individual who is seeing normal behavior as problem behavior to get it under control.... do I believe she loves the dog.... yes..... I do..... but do I think that the relationship may be severely and irrevocably damaged?? yeah I am leaning in that direction. I think this dog deserves to be with someone who has the time and the patience to figure out what is going on and work to help the dog understand self control and manners.... as well as other things.... I also think that puppyhood is not for everyone and labradors are NOT the easy dogs that people think they are. I think this dog deserves someone who does not view playing as a problem and appreciates the fact that their dog loves them so much and wants to be wtih them instead of viewing their dog as difficult and annoying when the pup is beside herself with happiness at being with her person. 

S


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> peace36... im glad YOU dont have this dog. this dog is not "mental" alright? hes a puppy! and even if the actions were "agressive" (which i dont think they are at all) thats something that can be worked on and fixed. you sound like someone who wouldnt invest much time in a dog like this. and thats exactly what this dog needs, time, and effort. you cant just look at a behavior such as his and say "oh hes mental that cant be fixed". i think this dog has a lot of potential, and just has an owner that is looking for some guidence. it seems all you want to say is that the dog has mental problems, you have offered no REAL solution to the "problem" but your suggestion of putting him down, which is completely asinine.


You really did not thoughly reading my posts 

If it were my dog I would problably do what the poster is doing getting advise and hopefully calling a behaivealist. Maybe there is more we dont know. The poster mentioned the lab being put on medication did not sound normal to me.

Shalva thanks for explaining a bit more to me. Yeah I guess the dog would not think that he was actually drowning the child.


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

Casey has many great qualities too but are so hard to see with so MANY negative qualities. No, the dog doesn't purposely try to drown the 10 year old but whether it is purposeful or not, it has to stop. My daughter cannot have any friends over the house. Casey is obsessed with everything she does. For example, she will bring me the football after fetch more than 100 times. When I stop, she gets mad and barks. She has gone through my porch screens 5 times to get to me from outside. As for the paw licking. This started after she was bit by a bug months ago. She wont allow it to heal on the one paw so she has licked it all the way through so it bleeds raw everyday. Casey is highly intelligent and it you break the routine once, then she wins! For example. I put her outside. She barks non stop so I have to bring her in because the neighbors complain rightfully so, its 200 am. I then let her in and she is instantly rewarded for her barking. But then I get her in, she barks non stop to go out. I open the door to let her out and she wont go. She wants me to go hang in the backyard with her at 2:00 am. (I left her once back their barking and she came to our bedroom window and started throwing her self against our window) Everyday, she is up at about 5:00 am She receives 2 (3mile walks a day) Swims multiple times a day,(At times if you look out the window she will get on a float and sunbathe) she plays fetch outside about an hour a day, and inside about 2 hours a day. But I must say I could play with her 24 hours per day and it just wouldn't be enough for her! 
She is the most intelligent animal I have ever seen. She purposely does things just to get my attention. For example, If I am watching tv and she wants to play, she gets mad and finds something to do wrong. She has opened our cabinets(with childproof latches on them) and came running after us with a steak knife. She has gone into the pantry and perforated a 2 liter bottle of soda so it blew up. She has stolen my cell phone and ran into the back bushes so I couldn't get her. She grabbed a lighter out of my purse and it exploded in her mouth (no she didn't get hurt) She has eaten bars of ivory soap, razors, shampoo, and even took off with the frying pan with the food still inside. She knows how to operate the ice dispenser on the refrigerator and twice she has turned on the TV. (We keep all of our doors to each room locked because she knows how to open the handles.) I have tried to be firm with her but she ignores what I say until I physically leave the room and then she behaves. She goes to my door and lays down waiting for the next day. I Would never put her to sleep. We truly do love her. We are just so tired of getting up so frequently and fighting through everything with her. I think she just knows how to get her way all the time and she is smart enough to know she has us between a rock and a hard place!


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

Bailey,

Some people seem to be implying that that behaivor is normal for a lab puppy. If that is true well then WOW! I had no idea. I know my neighbors Lab barks alot and I mean alot! They put it in our yard once because they were having company and the child was afraid of dogs. I tell you that dog has such a loud bark the walls of our house vibrated from it.

Their dog barking does not bother me I guess their is enough distance between our houses but if the dog actually lived in our house I wouldnt like it too much.

Sounds like you are giving your dog a ton of exercise too. I wonder what other people do in a situation like your? And how long does it take (if this is typical lab behavior) to grow out of it?


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

bailey1459 said:


> She is the most intelligent animal I have ever seen. She purposely does things just to get my attention. For example, If I am watching tv and she wants to play, she gets mad and finds something to do wrong. She has opened our cabinets(with childproof latches on them) and came running after us with a steak knife


Bailey, are you sure she's not really a border collie? (This is a joke for those who know BCs). You should read A Dog Year by John Katz. He adopts a border collie who is frighteningly smart. This dog knew how to find a loose slat in the fence, turn it to make a hole, go through, and then close the fence behind him so he wouldn't be found out. He'd also open the fridge, take out a loaf of bread, open it, take out one slice, and then bring that slice upstairs and leave it on his owner's pillow (he didn't mention if the dog closed the bread back up and returned it to the fridge, however)...I'm not kidding, this is true. He had to work very hard to get this dog to respect him. He also had to give this dog a LOT of exercise.

I think you are overestimating walks and fetch...this gal needs some serious running around time, preferrably with other dogs. Do you have a dog park near you? I just can't explain it unless you've seen it...you can see a dog run after a ball, but to watch two dogs chase each other...well then you see what a full on sprint looks like. I guarantee you she is not getting enough exercise.

That said, she is definitely a smart girl and you need to work hard to get her to respect you. She will always be able to break the rules and do things to make you mad, but if she respects you enough, she will choose not to do those things. I don't know if you have the personality to handle her...I'm not sure I would, I'm not firm enough. If you are going to work with her, you need to commit 100% and then start by finding a good behaviorist to come and assess your situation. I'd probably have consultations with a couple of behaviorists just to get a range of opinions. The advice you get online is not going to solve your problems. I beg you to look into dog parks and doggy day cares near you, in order to try to get her playing with other dogs and killing off more energy than usual until you can meet with the behaviorists.

Good luck; let us know what happens.


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

bailey1459 said:


> Casey has many great qualities too but are so hard to see with so MANY negative qualities. No, the dog doesn't purposely try to drown the 10 year old but whether it is purposeful or not, it has to stop.


Yes it does have to stop and the easiest solution until she grows up would be to have her in a crate.... or in a place where she cant run out there...... 




> My daughter cannot have any friends over the house. Casey is obsessed with everything she does. For example, she will bring me the football after fetch more than 100 times. When I stop, she gets mad and barks.


dogs do not get mad..... she gets frustrated because YOU have gotten her all wound up and then stopped the game all of a sudden and she doesn't understand that.... so she barks out of excess energy and frustration..... 





> She has gone through my porch screens 5 times to get to me from outside.


so either shut the door fully so she can't go through the screen or crate her when you go out to play or do other things..... this is a management issue.... I have seven retrievers.... and all it would take would be my dogs to go through a screen once and the door would be shut and they would be crated when I was outside...... shut the door..... again a management issue.... this is not the dogs problem .... this is your problem for not managing the puppy behavior and now you have created a dog that thinks its ok to go through a screen..... 



> As for the paw licking. This started after she was bit by a bug months ago. She wont allow it to heal on the one paw so she has licked it all the way through so it bleeds raw everyday.


take her to the vet and get that looked at, she has created a lick granuloma aka what happens after a hot spot and some would call it a hot spot but technically it is a lick granuloma and now she needs a cone to prevent her from getting at it.... a course of antibiotics and perhaps some prednisone to calm it down..... she needs a vet.... hot spots like this ARE COMMON is labradors and other retrievers and dogs wiht an undercoat..... 





> Casey is highly intelligent and it you break the routine once, then she wins! For example. I put her outside. She barks non stop so I have to bring her in because the neighbors complain rightfully so, its 200 am. I then let her in and she is instantly rewarded for her barking. But then I get her in, she barks non stop to go out. I open the door to let her out and she wont go. She wants me to go hang in the backyard with her at 2:00 am. (I left her once back their barking and she came to our bedroom window and started throwing her self against our window)


sorry to say but you have created this game and it is going to be very very hard to break.... and if you are not a hundred percent consistent all the time you teach your dog to be persistent.... because sometimes she is successful and that is kinda like Las Vegas...... sometimes you win and it keeps people playing..... aka random reinforcement..... a problem you have created and yes it is because she is smart..... 



> Everyday, she is up at about 5:00 am She receives 2 (3mile walks a day) Swims multiple times a day,(At times if you look out the window she will get on a float and sunbathe) she plays fetch outside about an hour a day, and inside about 2 hours a day. But I must say I could play with her 24 hours per day and it just wouldn't be enough for her!


she is a lab puppy, and this is how lab puppies are..... at least they eventually grow up.... I have Flat Coated Retrievers and they never grow up and I can't wear them out either....retrievers are high energy dogs... and they are instinctually bred to retrieve and while people think they are easy low key animals they are NOT the breed for everyone. labs were historically the work horses of the retrievers, they would go out with the commercial hunters and retrieve upland waterfowl ALL DAY LONG so that when the hunter went to market he had birds to sell..... your pup is doing what she was bred to do...... I bet a hunter would love to have a pup like that...... 



> She is the most intelligent animal I have ever seen. She purposely does things just to get my attention. For example, If I am watching tv and she wants to play, she gets mad and finds something to do wrong. She has opened our cabinets(with childproof latches on them) and came running after us with a steak knife. She has gone into the pantry and perforated a 2 liter bottle of soda so it blew up. She has stolen my cell phone and ran into the back bushes so I couldn't get her. She grabbed a lighter out of my purse and it exploded in her mouth (no she didn't get hurt) She has eaten bars of ivory soap, razors, shampoo, and even took off with the frying pan with the food still inside. She knows how to operate the ice dispenser on the refrigerator and twice she has turned on the TV. (We keep all of our doors to each room locked because she knows how to open the handles.)


like any two year old if you don't give her attention for doing the things you want her to do then any attention is better than no attention.... my question is why are these things within reach....???? when my dogs get into something I don't want them to..... I grab a newspaper and hit myself over the head with it..... because IT IS MY FAULT..... I shouldn't have left the thing within reach to begin with...... when you say she is getting into all of these things it is because you are not supervising her and you are leaving things within her reach...... would you have left all these things around when your daughter was 3????? Would your daughter have been able to get to a steak knife????? and come on.... the pup wasn't chasing you with a knife she was chasing you with what she saw as a shiny toy.... and ya know what.... when she did it.... everyone probably started squealling and yelling and saying her name...... what fun!!!! 




> I have tried to be firm with her but she ignores what I say until I physically leave the room and then she behaves. She goes to my door and lays down waiting for the next day. I Would never put her to sleep. We truly do love her. We are just so tired of getting up so frequently and fighting through everything with her. I think she just knows how to get her way all the time and she is smart enough to know she has us between a rock and a hard place!



she is smart yes and you have reinforced this behavior.... in every case I didn't see anything but a dog who has not learned self control and manners and I have seen how you and your family has reinforced the very behaviors that you want to extinguish...... 

Personally I think you should find her a home with more structure and rules and someone that knows how to work with retrievers and their energy level..... and I think you should find an adult dog.... because without some serious changes on your part another puppy will be exactly the same..... 

with a puppy consistency is key.... people forget that they need to not only tell a puppy what NOT TO DO but they need to tell the puppy what to do ..... my experience is that the thing that tires a dog out more than anything.... is training.... sit, down, leave it.... teach her some tricks..... teach her to stay.... labs are food motivated so using treats and a clicker get her thinking.... thinking will wear a dog like this out..... when you use a clicker you channel that energy into positive manners..... 

the problem that I see is that I am not sure that you at this point are consistent enough or patient enough to work through these behaviors which are going to be difficult to re-train..... you have taught her that persistence pays off..... aka barking..... you have taught her that she can steal and destroy things and get attention...... you have taught her that running away with things gets her a nice game of chase...... chase is a dogs favorite game and is one that NEVER gets played in this house..... I would rather them chew up whatever it was that I was stupid enough to leave around than learn that running away gets them a game of chase..... 

maybe some others will be more positive and I am willing to help but you are going to have your work cut out for you..... and you really need to see a behaviorist that will evaluate YOU and your dog..... because to me.... what I was reading these problems seem to have been created..... I have seen it with one of my puppy people and once she got her issues with trianing under control they got the puppy sorted out but it has been a good couple years of work ...... 

s


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

This dog seems very intelligent. Actually, more so than my Lab, who I thought was the smartest dog ever!  Honestly though, its great that she's getting that much exercise and activity, however, it's not the same as mental exercise. With a dog that is as smart as yours sounds, she _needs_ mental stimulation as much as she needs food and water. So it's up to you to provide it to her. Look into agility training or some other activity that will use her _mind_ as much as her body. Our trainer seems to think that a lot of my Lab's issues will just go away once he's involved in an activity that will provide mental exercise. We haven't even started agility with him yet but we are playing little games with him, like finding treats throughout the house, him guessing which hand a treat is in, but most importantly, training with him EVERYDAY. Already he's shown a good improvement in his temperament and seems more relaxed...sometimes. LOL!!

Also it sounds like this dog doesn't respect you as her leader. Somewhere around here is a sticky that talks about approach of Nothing in Life is Free. Basically, its about making your dog work for everything. In order to be fed, she has to sit, lay down or whatever. To go outside she has to sit. To play with a toy she has to sit. Everything that this dog receives from you, she has to work for. Don't give her attention when she demands it, give it to her when its convenient for you. All of this will help teach her who is boss.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

i LOVE nothing in life is free training. unfortunately, i never did that with my pup, but fortunately, she does it anyway so i didnt really need to. but i think its an awesome way to train.


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

[QUOT

To the above poster who stated:
Personally I think you should find her a home with more structure and rules and someone that knows how to work with retrievers and their energy level..... and I think you should find an adult dog.... because without some serious changes on your part another puppy will be exactly the same..... [/QUOTE]

Funny, I signed up with this forum to try to get advice but instead I got insulted. I love my dog and I do not need you to insult me and make me out to look like an animal abuser. If I didn't truly want to help my dog, I would have gotten rid of her 9 months ago. As for the screen thing, she has dove through the upper screen from the outside in through a "CLOSED DOOR." Yes, I am smart enough to close the door. As for the crate, yes i do crate train. But I find that it would be abusive to leave her in it when we spend time outdoors as a family. As for finding inappropriate items left out, One of the children use the bathroom and forget to "LOCK" the door and she gets in. I have also take the appropriate action as to childproof cabinets, in which the dog figured out. For you to give advice as to give my dog to someone who knows how to work retriever and to find an adult dog is outright rude of you. I am doing my best with what I have. I have spent numerous hours training this dog, playing with this dog and spending oodles of money for this dog. Yes, I am fully aware of why she has the hot spot, and yes, I have been to the vet. And yes, we did try the hood, and yes, my dog freaked out. Yes, I am an experienced dog owner and I had a wonderful dog for 13 years who recently passed away who was loving, caring, and very well trained. So, If you are not here to try to help me by positive advice, then please do not respond at all. Not everyone is as incompetent as you think they may be


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

bailey1459 said:


> Funny, I signed up with this forum to try to get advice but instead I got insulted. I love my dog and I do not need you to insult me and make me out to look like an animal abuser. If I didn't truly want to help my dog, I would have gotten rid of her 9 months ago. As for the screen thing, she has dove through the upper screen from the outside in through a "CLOSED DOOR." Yes, I am smart enough to close the door. As for the crate, yes i do crate train. But I find that it would be abusive to leave her in it when we spend time outdoors as a family. As for finding inappropriate items left out, One of the children use the bathroom and forget to "LOCK" the door and she gets in. I have also take the appropriate action as to childproof cabinets, in which the dog figured out. For you to give advice as to give my dog to someone who knows how to work retriever and to find an adult dog is outright rude of you. I am doing my best with what I have. I have spent numerous hours training this dog, playing with this dog and spending oodles of money for this dog. Yes, I am fully aware of why she has the hot spot, and yes, I have been to the vet. And yes, we did try the hood, and yes, my dog freaked out. Yes, I am an experienced dog owner and I had a wonderful dog for 13 years who recently passed away who was loving, caring, and very well trained. So, If you are not here to try to help me by positive advice, then please do not respond at all. Not everyone is as incompetent as you think they may be



and this is why it is not going to work because you are unwilling to take any responsibility for your role in her behavior...... dogs are created.... and you created this..... but as far as you are concerned this is all the dogs problem .... 

well you created this and while you may not like hearing it, the only way its going to get better is for you to understand YOUR role in her behavior..... but its easier to blame the dog..... 

good luck
I hope for the dogs sake you figure it out 
over and out.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Bailey - While you may have disliked the tone of Shalva's post, her suggestion to rehome the dog is not really an insult to you. Sometimes things just simply do not work out with an animal we have tried to bring into our homes. Sometimes the dog is sick, sometimes it is crazy. Sometimes we are overwhelmed, sometimes we are too busy. Sometimes we just don't know what to do anymore.

While I would never suggest rehoming an animal as a first course of action, it is not a crime to admit you and this dog are not meant to be and try to find it a better situation.

I confess I, too, would be at a loss as to what to do with a dog such as you describe. I would consult a behaviorist, if I had the money, and if that did not work for me, I would try to find the pup a new home.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

Remind me never to get a lab......some of what you describe seems like normal puppy stuff, but some definitely does not. My dogs are *not* like that, and I have three under one year old. Granted they are not labs, but holy cow, I just can't believe this is all normal puppy behavior, even for high energy dogs. 

Anyhow, it seems like she does whatever she wants all the time, and you have to stop that. I recommend strict NILIF and a crate - a really heavy duty one. There is no reason for her to be up at night at 11 months. Put her in the crate at night, and don't let her out until morning, no matter how much she barks. You have some sleepless nights ahead of you, but it sounds like you aren't getting any sleep anyway. Continue exercising her as much as possible, but I'd try to get her some play time with other dogs or doggy daycare. Focus on mental exercise as well. Teach her tricks, have her go through training drills. I'd have her on a firm schedule and not deviate from it. I would not let her initiate play, but start it and stop it when you want to and don't give in when she barks. I would also put everything, and I mean everything, out of her reach and have appropriate chew toys on hand at all times. Also, I would quit leaving her outside unsupervised.

I would also get her to the vet for the paw issue. I agree she needs a cone. If you can afford it, talk to a behaviorist. It sounds fixable to me, but you have a lot of work ahead of you. I don't think I could handle a dog with that kind of energy and intellegence.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

One quick question...do you only have her???

How about introducing another dog? Perhaps an older retired ch. Lab, who is looking for a place to settle down, but still has the energy to play with a younger dog, and help keep her from being so anxious.

It sounds like she needs canine interaction more than anything; some dogs are just more social than others; perhaps finding a doggie daycare to take her to, for 4 hours a day could make a difference too; that way she can play non-stop with some other rowdy crazy dogs as well.

It also sounds like, no offense, but that she has gotten away with her behavior in one way or another; whether it has been you simply doting or fretting over her, or scolding her, etc, but either way, she seems to have been rewarded for some of the behavior. 

Perhaps you need to go back to the beginning and teach her that everything she gets, MUST be earned; attention, food, water, treats, EVERYTHING!!! Don't and I repeat don't let this dog run your life; there is a wonderful dog in there somewhere. Some of this is normal young dog behavior, as they go through different phases of obnoxious behavior challenges (she is currently a 'teenage' dog), and you just gotta ride through it, and remain calm and focused as their leader.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

sheltiemom said:


> Remind me never to get a lab......some of what you describe seems like normal puppy stuff, but some definitely does not. My dogs are *not* like that, and I have three under one year old. Granted they are not labs, but holy cow, I just can't believe this is all normal puppy behavior, even for high energy dogs.
> 
> Anyhow, it seems like she does whatever she wants all the time, and you have to stop that. I recommend strict NILIF and a crate - a really heavy duty one. There is no reason for her to be up at night at 11 months. Put her in the crate at night, and don't let her out until morning, no matter how much she barks. You have some sleepless nights ahead of you, but it sounds like you aren't getting any sleep anyway. Continue exercising her as much as possible, but I'd try to get her some play time with other dogs or doggy daycare. Focus on mental exercise as well. Teach her tricks, have her go through training drills. I'd have her on a firm schedule and not deviate from it. I would not let her initiate play, but start it and stop it when you want to and don't give in when she barks. I would also put everything, and I mean everything, out of her reach and have appropriate chew toys on hand at all times. Also, I would quit leaving her outside unsupervised.
> 
> I would also get her to the vet for the paw issue. I agree she needs a cone. If you can afford it, talk to a behaviorist. It sounds fixable to me, but you have a lot of work ahead of you. I don't think I could handle a dog with that kind of energy and intellegence.


To me, this definitely has all the ear marks of a Lab out of control and needs reined in. I think that this family really loves their dog and wants to do what is right. They just need to regain some determination and morale and tackle the issues. I love my Lab to pieces, but he is nuts...I'm starting to think all Labs are nuts.  They definitely not the dog for everyone and I think that Eddie will be my last Lab although I love the breed. But after Eddie, I think that I'd rather love them from afar....


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## Sookie's mom (Jan 31, 2007)

Have you considered looking into the "boot camps" used for training hunting dogs and such? My niece sent her young lab to one, not to be used for hunting, just for the dog to have excellent behavior and skills.
They board your dog during the 4-6wk program with the last week (or two?) being for owner training. They teach/reinforce skills all day with constant correction and practice along with lots and lots of exercise (fun). They can provide the constant focused repetition of behavior skills that most owners don't have time for. The dogs don't get any slack....no abuse though. It's pretty much a 24hr obedience class. It is very pricey, though. The ones I've heard about are several hundred dollars. There might be shorter programs for less somewhere. Where I live is pretty isolated and the closest one is 6hrs away so we've pretty much decided not to pursue it. Plus, I have one dog that has some separation anxiety issues that I think need to be resolved before sending him to something like that. The dogs are not trained forever. Reinforcing commands is still essential once they are finished with the program. A lot of people don't agree with boarding for that long, but it's not like they are boarded while you're on vacation. They are boarded and kept busy all day with specific training and exercise. It's kind of like sending them to school rather then summer camp. Just passing on some info.....

I have two young labs. A 3yr old that I adopted at 9wks and a 1yr old adopted at 5mos. These two have been (still are) very active (labby style) but nowhere near to the extent of yours. The only things taken from inside my house (that I know of) are blankets off of the couch, a pillow off of the bed (luckily, my husband's), two tv remotes, one workglove, two shoes, a pen, mechanical pencil, a gallon size baggie full of chicken jerky for dogs (it was pushed all the way to the back of the kitchen bar which is about 4ft tall, and I never did find all of the plastic bag), a cookbook, a magazine (those are fun to tear), and a baseball cap. I'm sure there are more that I don't remember. I guess I shouldn't have said "only". A garden hose in the backyard becomes garden hoses. There is no pattern to the timing. Sometimes it happens because they want to play, sometimes they have just played, just walked, just slept, just ate, or just cuz they felt like it. It doesn't matter if I'm there or not there. Gotta love 'em.

Sorry, I have to vent a little.....
It's a shame that arguing starts during threads. From what I've read on this and some other topics, the amount of ruffled feathers seems to be non-productive. I think a certain amount of respect should be given to the authors of posts. Everyone has their own opinion. If owners have found and are logging into this site then assume they are truly concerned, responsible owners that are trying to do the right thing for their pets otherwise they wouldn't be here. When advice is given or concerns voiced then please be focused on the issues presented and remember that not everyone has the perfect surroundings, time, money, or energy for their particular problem and solutions can't always be by the book....which happens in many cases. Dogs can be raised healthy and happy in a less than perfect home. Most owners do the very best they can which is why they are here seeking advice. Many times the initial post explains the situation clearly, providing many details on the problem, solutions tried, etc. Many times it seems as if the response given ignores details that were mentioned in the initial post. It's as if the author wasn't heard (okay, they're not speaking but you know what I mean). Sometimes it is productive to have some serious discussions, but please don't assume the worst in the wording of posts. Ask the author for clarification of their writings before assumptions are made and hackles are raised (thought I'd throw that one in there.)
I hope I haven't started another hackle-raiser.

Thank you for reading all of this. I just had to vent a bit. 

Sorry I got off track, bailey1459. Good luck to you and hang in there and keep us posted (no pun intended)


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

peace36 said:


> I was not implying that right away the dog should be put down.
> 
> The fact that the vet put the dog on some sort of "mood" medication sounded like the dog had some kind of mental problem and if the meds did not work I can only imagine the dog will get worse in time not better.
> 
> ...



Vets are NOT a good source for sound advice about behavior and training, and just because this vet labeled the dog as having OCD does not make it true. I agree with everthing that Shalva said. This is an 11 month old puppy, and Labs are notorious for their high-energy behavior. I suspect this dog is underexercised and/or bored, which only compounds the normal behavior that you call "like a wild animal." In addition, dogs, just like children, thrive on structure and routine. Consistent, persistent, and patient training, along with adequate exercise to release pent-up energy, and mental stimulation is key to raising a healthy, happy, well adjusted dog. I am continually amazed by how few pet owners provide this for their dogs, and blame the dogs for being dogs rather than accept the truth: our dogs are reflections of us. They don't learn good manners through osmosis, they have to be taught.


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## Amaya-Mazie-Marley (Apr 15, 2007)

I am having pretty much the same problem with my Mazie. She is a very hyperactive dog, seperation anxiety, behavior problems and the list goes on. I have heard many times that the dog reflects 90% of the owner and I have to disagree on that. My other two dogs are perfectly behaved and listen extremely well, Mazie just doesn't. She was put on a medication called Reconcile that hasn't helped at all and its becoming quite nerve wrecking. She is extremely dog and man agressive, steals things, chews on anything she can get her mouth on, barks constantly, food agressive, gets jealous and goes after the cats, gets in fights with this cat we have had for over 5 months now, its getting ridiculous but I couldn't even imagine suggesting PTS for an 11 month old puppy, same age as Mazie. Most of what you're describing sounds to me like a normal lab puppy, or could even be bad traits. Just because a dog is purebred and has all the necessary health testing doesn't mean it will be a perfect dog. I would suggest the NILIF program and lots of patience. I have been trying to work with a friend and I told her the same thing, you have to absolutely make your dog respect you and listen to you. Mazie has to do whatever I say before she does anything at all. If she doesn't sit, she doesn't get her treats, her toys, her food or whatever it may be. If we are out walking and she doesn't heel, I stop dead in my tracks and wait till her little hiney is heeling. If she is barking non stop and won't listen to me I simply shut the door of the room she's in and she gets ignored. Your dog has figured out that certain behaviors get him attention and that has to stop. If your dog is acting out of line, tell him no ONE time and ignore him after that. If he is chewing something he shouldn't, get up and remove it from his mouth and walk away. I understand that its frusterating when you have a dog with behavior problems but you had to know from the beginning it wouldn't be easy. Its not fair to a perfectly healthy puppy to put him to sleep because you can't handle him. Mazie has been acting worse than Bailey for the 10 months I've had her and I am determined to stick with this girl and straighten her out because I know it can be done. It just takes time and patience.


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

I have to add, since some people seem to be getting scared of labs, haha, that obviously although these behaviors "sound like a normal lab puppy," labs are NOT supposed to act this way. The reason they became so popular is because they are famous for being friendly, sociable, and very easy to train/eager to please. However, the only labs I have ever met who exhibited these traits or did not have the almost obsessive hyperactivity to accompany them, are ones bred and trained specifically for work (guide dogs, etc.). 

This is probably why, while I love golden retrievers (and all the other retrievers, and pretty much all sporting dogs for that matter), I just really do not like labs. I would suggest that most labs I have seen are either terribly untrained (which it does not sound like Bailey is, as you have definitely put in a fair amount of work trying to train and exercise her--much much more than a lot of other lab owners I know) or just not well bred. I think the "high strung" quality is something that has invaded the breed since they became popular and now is just pervasive (and I'm not suggesting that even labs of champion breeders don't have this quality to them--at this point, I'm not sure if outside of the guide dog breeding stock, a whole litter of even-tempered labs is ever born!). 

But yes, Bailey sounds like a lab puppy. A lot of her issues are things I see with my golden retriever puppy--except that Bailey seems to take everything my golden ever does wrong and put it all together in one day (every day). Zoe is extremely eager to please and easy to train, and I am very thankful for that. Bailey sounds like she has definitely inherited some of the worst qualities that labs can have. That's no fault to the owner, as you could find the best bred lab and have the same problem. She, is, however, still a lab, and I agree that the well-behaved great all-around family dog is in there somewhere. You've received lots of good advice, and I really hope it works out for you and that you can help Bailey become the good girl that you want her to be.


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

sheltiemom said:


> Remind me never to get a lab......some of what you describe seems like normal puppy stuff, but some definitely does not. My dogs are *not* like that, and I have three under one year old. Granted they are not labs, but holy cow, I just can't believe this is all normal puppy behavior, even for high energy dogs.
> 
> Anyhow, it seems like she does whatever she wants all the time, and you have to stop that. I recommend strict NILIF and a crate - a really heavy duty one. There is no reason for her to be up at night at 11 months. Put her in the crate at night, and don't let her out until morning, no matter how much she barks. You have some sleepless nights ahead of you, but it sounds like you aren't getting any sleep anyway. Continue exercising her as much as possible, but I'd try to get her some play time with other dogs or doggy daycare. Focus on mental exercise as well. Teach her tricks, have her go through training drills. I'd have her on a firm schedule and not deviate from it. I would not let her initiate play, but start it and stop it when you want to and don't give in when she barks. I would also put everything, and I mean everything, out of her reach and have appropriate chew toys on hand at all times. Also, I would quit leaving her outside unsupervised.
> 
> I would also get her to the vet for the paw issue. I agree she needs a cone. If you can afford it, talk to a behaviorist. It sounds fixable to me, but you have a lot of work ahead of you. I don't think I could handle a dog with that kind of energy and intellegence.


I don't have labs, I would NEVER have a lab, while they are nice dogs, and I know many young labs, we don't know the pedigree of this dog.... and field bred labs are VERY VERY high energy and very much like bulls in the china shop ... a good friend of mines lab ate her basement stairs dog ended up trapping himself in the basement as he destroyed the stairs so they were not stable. Labs eat things..... they are smart and they are high energy due to their history. Show bred labs are lower key and are nice nice dogs but thus the breed split which I would (as you all know lolol) never condone. 

The problem as i see it from a bigger lens is that people think that Labs and Goldens in particular (amongst other breeds like beagles) are just these adorable cute sweet easy going don't need to train dogs. That they are the affectionate easy going couch potato's that you see on TV.... the dog Shadow in Homeward Bound is a good example..... AND THEY ARE NOT..... THEY ARE NOT for everyone... yet when you hear people talk about the dog they are going to get for their kids..... its often a golden a lab or a beagle.... yet each of these breeds have traits based on their history that can be alot of work and need alot of training to channel. 

Goldens and Labs are bitey, mouthy dogs..... they use their mouths.....and have great dexterity with their mouths and if the rules are not present from the time they are little they can be little beasts as they get older and what is cute in a 8 week old puppy is not cute in a 70 or 80 pound adolescent...... Beagles the most popular dog in the US the last time I looked (last year) have noses that don't stop.... a friend has a cute beagle.... who manages to get on kitchen counters and steal food ...... they have moved chairs and climb-ables away from the counter..... 

I wish people would do their homework and be realistic about their time and ability..... and while the OP may be upset with my post which I have re-read numerous times and do not see where it was disrespectful or rude, she just didn't like it.... but people don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. I simply took her own words to show her how her own methods and training (or lack there-of) have impacted this dog, in no way did I say she was an abuser and I am not sure where that even came from..... but when someone starts there post by saying there dog is aggressively trying to drown their child (which she took back) and then is chasing them with a steak knife..... (can't you just picture it.... a big goofy labrador proud of his shiny knew toy while others are chasing him (which she said they do) ) it is quite comical if this whole situation weren't so sad....... well those comments amongst others make me question how fixable this relationship is...... that and the fact that the OP wants everyone to just blame the dog..... I simply showed her, first what her role was and second.... the really faulty thinking in some areas...... 
I think she loves her dog, but I think she views the dog as being broken.... instead of watching and seeing how she has inadvertently created this..... 

This goes back to my post months ago about the dog breed that you admire and love but would never have for whatever reason.....I can think of several breeds that I love but would never own because of a mix of my own ability and patience and their instintual behaviors..... I have to say that a Labrador is one of those breeds..... nice dogs yes.... but some of the behaviors that they have are not behaviors that I would want to deal with ..... 

that having been said I have met some very nice labs..... but they took alot of training and a GREAT DEAL of consistency..... .

I have a puppy person who I have alluded to in the past.... I gave her the lowest key puppy in the litter..... a show pup..... because of her inexperience and inability to be consistent.... that puppy was neutered at 10 mos. he was jumping up and nipping her for attention (her arms were bruised) he was ripping things apart and running off with things (because things were left within reach like this puppy and then it became chase)...... he was jumping on others and jumped on a woman using a wheelchair at a show (70 lbs of puppy) ..... he was aggressive toward other dogs (something we had never seen here)..... it was a mess..... and the owner was told that she had to get this behavior under control and send him to 6 weeks of boarding training with a certified behaviorist or I was taking the puppy back..... it was a nightmare..... now a year and a half later..... he is doing ok although animal control has been to her house for noise complaints (she allows him to bark out the window at 2am) and she told me that she had figured out how he would let her talk on the phone ...... by going into the bathroom and closing the door.... uuuuuuugggghhhhhhhhhhhhh he is going back for more boarding training. This was the lowest key easiest puppy in the litter and if I could take him back I would ... BUT SHE LOVES HIM ..... is totally and absolutely devoted to him..... but is she the best home for him NO ...... and I should have recognized her inability to be consistent before placing the puppy with him.... but live and learn...... whats funny is that the high energy puppy in the litter..... (this was my litter that is now 3 years) the one who I was sure was going to run their owner ragged.... has obedience titles and is a wild girl for sure but she is trained and she has limits and is doing GREAT...... 

dogs are created..... there are some dogs that have anxiety issues, sure..... there are some dogs that have thyroid issues and other problems sure.... but that is not what I am seeing here from the OP own words...... 

so there ya have it..... 
just a few cents for this morning.... 
now I have to create a make up exam for a student (I hate that) 
S


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

its funny that you hear so many problems with behavior in the breed, and yet they are SUCH a popular breed. theyre right now the "classic" family dog. i do agree that i think she loves this dog and wants help. i think there has been some harsh judgment, and i want to apologize for those people to her. thats not really fair. i do want to say it sounds like you little poochie has decided to go Alpha on you, and you are now at his paws. you need to regain that Alpha status, and nothing in life is free, will help you do that. also that will get his mind working too. he will need to make connections such as "i have to do ___ to get ___" and he will have to learn it. also starting any kind of training is going to help stimulate the mind. teaching tricks, any kind, will help tire his mind, and will be helpful to you. also, once you tire him mentally, its going to be easier to then tire him physically. i would highly suggest also some socialization with some other pups. this will help him get some of his energy out, dogs can play with him harder than you can... this will also help with learning pack dynamics and "crossing the line". other dogs will let him know RIGHT AWAY when he has crossed the line with them. they will quickly correct him, and he will learn. i hope maybe this is of some help to you. again, im sorry you feel attacked by some people. i try not to do that because my pup was very very sick at one time, and i was attacked on a different forum for it, and it wasnt even my fault! its tough when you come in for help, and you get beaten for it. i dont want you to feel like that at all.


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

I am glad to see that others are echoing my suggestion of getting in some play time with other dogs. This was the first thought I had, because I know that NOTHING I do can tire Zoe out quite like a good romp with other dogs can. Obedience training for mental exercise is helpful, but she needs a good romp to burn off energy before she can settle down long enough to concentrate on training! I was hoping that there wasn't something wrong with me for thinking that dogs should play with other dogs to burn energy when the owners can't keep up (which is true with a LOT of dog breeds). Since others agree, I would definitely go for this. Seek out a dog park or day care, or find a friend with a dog (of similar size and energy) and set a play date. I really think it will help at least a little bit.

By the way, Shalva, I don't know what your source about beagle's being the most popular is, but as for AKC registration, labs have been number 1 BY FAR (like 3 times as many registrations as the 2nd place breed) for probably almost the last decade. Also, I believe the golden in _Homeward Bound _was a senior dog, so he could have been a couch potato by that point (lol!). 


For reference, AKC's Dog registration stats for 2006:
1 Retrievers (Labrador) 123,760 
2 Yorkshire Terriers 48,346 
3 German Shepherd Dogs 43,575 
4 Retrievers (Golden) 42,962 
5 Beagles 39,484 
6 Dachshunds 36,033 
7 Boxers 35,388 
8 Poodles 29,939 
9 Shih Tzu 27,282 
10 Miniature Schnauzers 22,920

(http://www.akc.org/reg/dogreg_stats_2006.cfm?SEARCH_BUTTON.X=0\&SEARCH_BUTTON.Y=0)


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

FriendsOfZoe said:


> I am glad to see that others are echoing my suggestion of getting in some play time with other dogs. This was the first thought I had, because I know that NOTHING I do can tire Zoe out quite like a good romp with other dogs can. Obedience training for mental exercise is helpful, but she needs a good romp to burn off energy before she can settle down long enough to concentrate on training! I was hoping that there wasn't something wrong with me for thinking that dogs should play with other dogs to burn energy when the owners can't keep up (which is true with a LOT of dog breeds). Since others agree, I would definitely go for this. Seek out a dog park or day care, or find a friend with a dog (of similar size and energy) and set a play date. I really think it will help at least a little bit.
> 
> By the way, Shalva, I don't know what your source about beagle's being the most popular is, but as for AKC registration, labs have been number 1 BY FAR (like 3 times as many registrations as the 2nd place breed) for probably almost the last decade. Also, I believe the golden in _Homeward Bound _was a senior dog, so he could have been a couch potato by that point (lol!).
> 
> ...



yeah I will have to find that..... not sure where that was and it was a few years back.... I dont think it was by registrations though.... let me see if I can find it ..... regardless..... look at the list..... there are several dogs on the list that I would not consider easy or first time dogs.....


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

Shalva said:


> regardless..... look at the list..... there are several dogs on the list that I would not consider easy or first time dogs.....


Oh I agree...I know I posted on a GSD threat in disbelief that they were #3!! 

Okay, I will stop hijacking the thread with statistics...I just brought it up to try to explain to non-lab owners why labs now often tend to exemplify the worst traits of their breed, as they are overbred and too popular. For the OP, this doesn't matter, because she's only concerned with one lab. I'm just hoping that she can bring out the GOOD lab qualities evenutally that are the reason labs are so popular.


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

I just wanted to let you all know that I have and continually try my best. Since day 1 I have done hours of consistent training each day. I attended obedience training double sessions with a SEa World animal trainer as well as a guide dog trainer. Both trainers each said that Casey is extremely intelligent but extremely stubborn. She is easily trained but once she conquers the tasks, she stops dead in her tracks and knows she is losing control and will do what ever it takes to take it back. Both trainers acknowledged this behavior in Casey. After she went through the program, both of us were amazed how easy she was to train initially. But even with the trainer, Casey was no longer interested in pleasing them or me. They asked her to perform the same learned functions and she sat down on the floor and wouldnt budge. The final 2 classes, Casey wouldnt listen, behave or stay focused. Instead she got up and Pooped not once but twice at the trainors foot. At first I thought it was just an accident but the next day we went, she did it again. I have been consistant from day 1. I have constantly stood my ground, never giving in. I will not budge if she doesnt sit, heal, etc... I have placed her in the crate at night and for weeks everything was great but then she decided that she lost control and now barks without stopping from 2:00 am to 6:00 am. We have let her bark with out even a word from us. But she doesnt stop. Sometimes the ideal ways just aren't feasible. For example I cant just leave her outside barking because the neighbors have called the police and I have been threatened with fines. I do have a wonderful yard for the dog as well as a pool, which she loves. I walk her six miles a day and that doesn't include the extra walks the kids give her. She plays fetch for hours each day. She is massaged, groomed daily. She is extremely aggressive with people but only inside our house. Outside on walks she keeps her distance. We have had our visitors not pet her until she sits or to exit the house and reenter but this hasnt worked and I have to get the dog and place her in the crate or sit outside with her if friends are over. 
Casey loves me tremendously. She doesnt feel this way about the other members of the house since I am a stay at home mom and am with her constantly. I feel that her behavior is mostly directed at me because she wants my constant attention and needs to be near me all the time. It has become such an issue that in the evening, the dog will not leave me alone for a second. Constantly pushing her toys at me even after the game is over. She will be in a dead sleep but if I enter the room she bounces up and gets aggressive. My husband gets up and says "DON't" and she backs down only until he sits down and this goes on all night long. After one time, he places her in the crate. He leaves her in there until she calms down then lets her out. She goes right back at it. When this happens, I leave the room and the behavior stops. I would think that she would get it by now that I will leave and give her no attention. But its not working.
She does have many good qualities as well. She is comical to watch. She will get in the pool and pick out a float to sunbathe on. She is smart and can understand what we say. She isnt as rough with the kids as she used to be. She doest play bite us as much. She sometimes gets in the shower with my daughter and stays there until she is soaped up too. Its quite ironic but we love her and hate her all at the same time. All of us are all dragging ourselves around from lack of sleep. 
After our dog Bailey died, we didnt hesitate to get another. bailey was LAB/Basenji mix. So we decided to get another big dog because we loved the lab qualities in Bailey. We knew that it would be a lot of work but with me at home and time on my hands, I didn't see why their would be a problem. But I realize that no 2 dogs are alike and I will keep trying. Unfortunately, the nearest dog park is quite a distance. I do try to get her together with the neighbors dogs and she loves this. I know that Casey's biggest problem is CONTROL. She wants to control everything. Even when I walk her, she fights me to get the collar on. Everything is a fight with her. She even has to hold the leash at first and walk me. But when I wont move, she eventually drops it. If I could only gain the control I think she would become manageable. But it is a constant battle and I am losing!


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

bailey1459 said:


> I just wanted to let you all know that I have and continually try my best. Since day 1 I have done hours of consistent training each day. I attended obedience training double sessions with a SEa World animal trainer as well as a guide dog trainer. Both trainers each said that Casey is extremely intelligent but extremely stubborn. She is easily trained but once she conquers the tasks, she stops dead in her tracks and knows she is losing control and will do what ever it takes to take it back. Both trainers acknowledged this behavior in Casey. After she went through the program, both of us were amazed how easy she was to train initially. But even with the trainer, Casey was no longer interested in pleasing them or me. They asked her to perform the same learned functions and she sat down on the floor and wouldnt budge. The final 2 classes, Casey wouldnt listen, behave or stay focused. Instead she got up and Pooped not once but twice at the trainors foot. At first I thought it was just an accident but the next day we went, she did it again. I have been consistant from day 1. I have constantly stood my ground, never giving in. I will not budge if she doesnt sit, heal, etc... I have placed her in the crate at night and for weeks everything was great but then she decided that she lost control and now barks without stopping from 2:00 am to 6:00 am. We have let her bark with out even a word from us. But she doesnt stop. Sometimes the ideal ways just aren't feasible. For example I cant just leave her outside barking because the neighbors have called the police and I have been threatened with fines. I do have a wonderful yard for the dog as well as a pool, which she loves. I walk her six miles a day and that doesn't include the extra walks the kids give her. She plays fetch for hours each day. She is massaged, groomed daily. She is extremely aggressive with people but only inside our house. Outside on walks she keeps her distance. We have had our visitors not pet her until she sits or to exit the house and reenter but this hasnt worked and I have to get the dog and place her in the crate or sit outside with her if friends are over.
> Casey loves me tremendously. She doesnt feel this way about the other members of the house since I am a stay at home mom and am with her constantly. I feel that her behavior is mostly directed at me because she wants my constant attention and needs to be near me all the time. It has become such an issue that in the evening, the dog will not leave me alone for a second. Constantly pushing her toys at me even after the game is over. She will be in a dead sleep but if I enter the room she bounces up and gets aggressive. My husband gets up and says "DON't" and she backs down only until he sits down and this goes on all night long. After one time, he places her in the crate. He leaves her in there until she calms down then lets her out. She goes right back at it. When this happens, I leave the room and the behavior stops. I would think that she would get it by now that I will leave and give her no attention. But its not working.
> She does have many good qualities as well. She is comical to watch. She will get in the pool and pick out a float to sunbathe on. She is smart and can understand what we say. She isnt as rough with the kids as she used to be. She doest play bite us as much. She sometimes gets in the shower with my daughter and stays there until she is soaped up too. Its quite ironic but we love her and hate her all at the same time. All of us are all dragging ourselves around from lack of sleep.
> After our dog Bailey died, we didnt hesitate to get another. bailey was LAB/Basenji mix. So we decided to get another big dog because we loved the lab qualities in Bailey. We knew that it would be a lot of work but with me at home and time on my hands, I didn't see why their would be a problem. But I realize that no 2 dogs are alike and I will keep trying. Unfortunately, the nearest dog park is quite a distance. I do try to get her together with the neighbors dogs and she loves this. I know that Casey's biggest problem is CONTROL. She wants to control everything. Even when I walk her, she fights me to get the collar on. Everything is a fight with her. She even has to hold the leash at first and walk me. But when I wont move, she eventually drops it. If I could only gain the control I think she would become manageable. But it is a constant battle and I am losing!


OK I really do think you need to find a behaviorist someone who can evaluate not only Casey but also your training methods because you sound like in some ways you have given up..... AND THAT IS OK.... it is ok to say that a dog needs more than you can give...... it is ok to say that for whatever reason you can't give her what she needs...... but I think a behaviorist is in order..... 

I never thought for a minute that you weren't doing your best.... but I did think that from your own words you hadn't managed her well as a young puppy and now that she is big these behaviors that once were ok .... were now totally un livable wtih and that happens..... so ok .... 

first find a treat that she loves..... over microwaved hot dogs are a great treat..... pounce cat treats are a great treat..... and there are others ..... THE ONLY TIME she gets these treats are when you are training..... get a clicker..... have you tried clicker training????? I would not do anything but clicker wtih a dog like this.... she needs to do it because she wants to and there is a pay off for her.... think of it as whether you or your husband would go to work if you weren't getting paid.... so if she has control issues (which I personally think is anthopomorphizing a bit) but ok we will go with it.... then you want her to do things because she wants to ...... 

get a book about clicker training..... http://www.clickertraining.com/
and start training.... I know you have gone before.... but start again.... this is a new leaf.... if you are motivated to keep your dog then start again.... you are going to go backwards...... the clicker is great because it gets your pup thinking and working and that is more tiring than anything..... 

I have flat coats.... they call them peter pan dogs because they NEVER grow up..... we have a large hill behind our house in NY..... it is almost straight up.... hard to walk up it and its a farm... so tall tall hay and grass in front of it..... and we throw a bumper up that hill as far as we can.... and we can't tire out our youngest flat coat.... we just can't ...... she runs up and down that hill a hundred times and comes back for more..... this is not a small hill...... however, getting her to think wears her out faster than anything..... and she knows some things.... sit down whatever..... so once you get those.... then like las vegas.... sometimes you will reinforce and sometimes you won't .... you will become like a slot machine where she never knows when she will win the jackpot..... ..... then at night instead of a long long walk...... take out the clicker and teach her something..... it can be anything .... something stupid.... I once taught shalva to go up the stairs and then back down.... I taught her to touch the front door..... I taught her to bow when I say TaaaDaaaa and I taught Cuinn to raise his right paw when I say who wants a treat ( real crowd pleaser that one) .......

I agree with the others that say nilif (nothing in life is free) sit to eat.... down to go out.... this is your house set the rules..... 

and please pick up..... don't leave things lying around..... you have a baby there..... and she doesn't understand to not pick things up..... 8-13 mos. is a hard age..... don't leave things within reach or crate her when she cant be supervised like when you are cooking.... let her bark herself hoarse if its during the day.... the problem with electronic collars is that if you are not there to zap her every time she barks the behavior will get worse not better..... and DONT CHASE EVER ...... chase is really reinforcing in and of itself 

there is an excellent book out called how dogs learn....... it might be a good read.... think back to your psych 101 and BF skinner..... what is reinforced gets repeated and what is punished should be decreased..... 

I am willign to help with this and I do have a bit of experience as do many others here.... but you have to not get offended and be willign to take that advice.... and try some different things even if it seems like the same old same old. 
s


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

yes, we did train her using the clicker method. We still use it. We also trained her using the crate. But unfortunately she wont stop barking and I dont know what to do about this. Unfortunately we have tile flooring with cathedral ceilings and the noise is magnified. Yes, I do tend to feel that Casey does have some human qualities such as being controling and obsessive. I am not giving up. All I want at this time is a little hope for improvement that maybe we can really enjoy our dog. Not just me but all of us. In the house we just let her bark but outside we have neighbors that live 20 feet away. I just need all the help I can get so I will try anything


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## onyxdaily (Apr 3, 2007)

Hi bailey1459. While reading about your young lab pup, I was reminded of one of my dogs. I have an adult hound, a 15 month old lab and an 11 month old saint bernard. Now which one was I thinking of, no, it wasn't the lab, it was the saint bernard. I will admit that I expected similar horrors as yours when we first decided to get a lab pup, but ours is and has never been anything like that. Calm and amazingly well behaved from the get go. His nickname is actually Easy. Now Jasper (our saint), on the other hand, is at times an absolute terror. And it's not easy dealing with a 140-150 pound terror, who barks alot, jumps alot, wants to play constantly, wants to play the in out game all day, wants to sit on your lap, pretty much wants constant attention. So I definitely understand your frustration. And I will tell you that I think you've gotten some very good advice in this thread. I will actually be taking some of this advice myself. So I guess that's it. I don't really have advice for you, as I'm in a similar boat (albeit not quite as bad as you), I just really wanted to sympathize. I think one difference between us, though, is that I recognize my saint's behavior as typical puppy behavior and I also recognize my fault for most of that behavior because although I do training, I am most guilty of not being 100% consistent. I definitely think you can change your pups behavior, but I don't think it will be easy. Good luck!


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

All I can say is I wish I had found this place when I was having problems with my lab months ago. Shalva would have been a godsend. We don't have him anymore and I would have done anything to have been able to keep him. Good luck to you and listen to the advice here - it's all good advice and will hopefully help you.


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

Ok. Now I have been thinking about the barking and I have some advise that worked great for me. My Malti-poo is not a yapper but at night I put him and my shih-tzu gated off in the kitchen.

Max started barking because he wanted to be up in my bedroom. So I did what Cesar Milan does on The Dog Whisperer. I calmly walked down stars and made that TsssK! noise as I did the bite with my hand near his neck. Of course inflicting zero pain. I did that about 3 times (each time he barked) and he stopped. 

Now once in a while in the middle of the night he will try barking to come upstairs and all I have to do is stand at the top of the stairs point at him and TssK and he stops.

Maybe this would work for you? It sounds kinda funny but it really worked. He hates that noise,,LoL.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

i think that works in mild cases. but it may work here, theres nothing else to lose right. they did that in puppy class with the ones who would bark, but i never used it with Chloe. she never barked, and if she occationally did it was for my attention for something or because she was really really playing. now that i have tought her the "speak" command she can do it more often, but anyway, i just used to tell her "enough" or "shhhh quiet" and she would stop. but it was like she came as a pre-programmed pup anyway, i never had to teach her much, she already knew it. shes a weird thing..


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> i think that works in mild cases. but it may work here, theres nothing else to lose right. they did that in puppy class with the ones who would bark, but i never used it with Chloe. she never barked, and if she occationally did it was for my attention for something or because she was really really playing. now that i have tought her the "speak" command she can do it more often, but anyway, i just used to tell her "enough" or "shhhh quiet" and she would stop. but it was like she came as a pre-programmed pup anyway, i never had to teach her much, she already knew it. shes a weird thing..


You have a Great Dane? Good thing she did'nt have a barking problem as I would imagine with a doggie that size she would have a pretty loud bark


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

yeah shes only 6 months old right now, and when she barks, you can feel it vibrate the floor. its very impressive.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Perhaps in the house she needs to learn that barking isn't allowed either...she won't decipher between the two you know...

If barking in your face indoors is acceptable, then barking when she can easily dodge you, or get away, and there are tons of things to bark AT outdoors will definitely be OK in her mind...

Perhaps, and I may have missed it, but perhaps it is time to consult and maybe even send her off to a professional trainer; perhaps one who trains Labs in particular. I don't think her problems are permanent, I just think she needs someone who is not going to let her get away with getting her way anymore. Once they get her trained, then the professional could help you learn how to help her readjust and learn how to work with her in your own home so you could actually enjoy your dog as an obedient well behaved member of the family...which she is far from right now.


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

Love's_Sophie said:


> Perhaps in the house she needs to learn that barking isn't allowed either...she won't decipher between the two you know...
> 
> If barking in your face indoors is acceptable, then barking when she can easily dodge you, or get away, and there are tons of things to bark AT outdoors will definitely be OK in her mind...
> 
> Perhaps, and I may have missed it, but perhaps it is time to consult and maybe even send her off to a professional trainer; perhaps one who trains Labs in particular. I don't think her problems are permanent, I just think she needs someone who is not going to let her get away with getting her way anymore. Once they get her trained, then the professional could help you learn how to help her readjust and learn how to work with her in your own home so you could actually enjoy your dog as an obedient well behaved member of the family...which she is far from right now.


I totally agree wtih this it might be time for boot camp if you can afford it.... get her trained so that you can deal with her better and then all you have to do is maintain the behaviors that were taught.... 

s


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## RichmondTrainer (Sep 24, 2007)

CASEY'S MOM - 

There has been a lot of heat here since I was last on this forum!

If you'd like to talk with me further, I'd like to know where you are located and if you'd be interested in either sending Casey to me for boot camp (within reason, as far as distance is concerned) OR if you'd like me to help you find a good behaviorist in your area. Boot camp, as suggested by many of the other posters, sounds like a GREAT idea for your dog. The key is to find someone who knows what he/she is doing, and someone that provides aftercare instructions and assistance.

I have worked with a LOT of labs the same age as Casey, and I believe, with some professional support, you can learn to co-exist with her in a way that is fulfilling for both you AND her. 

Since I'm not sure how often I'll be on this forum, please send me an email if you'd like. My goal for being on this forum is just to learn more and help as much as possible, so just let me know!


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

You know, I'm surprised no one has thought to ask this yet (or maybe I overlooked it), at night where is she kept? If she is not kept in your room, try that. Many dogs do not like being separate from their pack. Since you are a stay-at-home mom, you are her pack leader so if she’s in another room then you are at night; her barking may just be her calling out to her "lost" pack. Also I agree at 11 months old there is no reason for nightly bathroom runs. Maybe once a month Carter will wake me up for a bathroom run, but its normally my own fault for allowing him to drink 2 bowls of water before bed *sighs*

Make sure you get her paws looked at by a vet, that is in no ways normal. Carter (my boxer mix) got bit by something on the base of his tail and chewed on it until it started to bleed. Come to find out he had one flea on him and he’s highly allergic to fleas so I have to take better measures to keep fleas off of him (more flea meds and checking for fleas at the first sign of itching)

If she steals something, do NOT give chase. She’s trying to make you play with her and the best and most fun game for dogs is chase. If she steals something, you grab her favorite toy, completely ignore her and what she has, and make the toy you have the best toy in the whole world. When she drops the object she shouldn’t have, reward her with this best toy in the world. I would also work on the “leave it” command for such things as tables. Your kids need to learn that anything on the floor is puppies, and you need to stick by it. If someone leaves a Barbie on the floor and be becomes a chew toy too bad. After enough toys die, the kids will get the hint to not leave their toys on the floor.

The training thing you might need one on one work with a trainer. My dog Carter is VERY dominate, sometimes our trainer is shocked that Carter even listens to me. He will out-right defy what I say. It’s not like he doesn’t know what a command means, it is just he doesn’t want to do it. But like you, I never allow him to not do what I want and force him into a “sit” if needed. Your pup is a teenager and will defy you at all cost. Just keep at it no matter what. Never let her dominate you. If you want her to sit and she walks away, put her on a leash and bring her back and make her sit. Just like with human teens, if you allow them to push you, they always push you. Stay consistent and pray that she has short teenage span.

Hang in there!!!!


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

Casey sleeps in the crate right next to our room but not in the room because the cat lives there. We tried to move out the cat but that didn't work our (He peed and sprayed). Yesterday I decided that today would be the day I regained my control over Casey. I decided that I wouldn't let her get away with anything. So whereever I went, she went. We went on six walks and they were very productive. She learned to heal at my side and go only when I moved forward. She did this all without pulling. I was extremely proud of her. It was the first time in a long while that I had Hope. But then it all change quite quickly. A squirrel ran by, she bolted so fast I nearly lost my arm. She kept running inbetween the houses over the next block. I was running right after her with her favorite ball and hot dog in hand. Screaming Come Casey, but she kept running right in through the sliding door into someones house. To say the least, I was mortified. OUt came the lady with my dog at her side. Thank goodness she wasn't mad. She was very good about the situation and loves dogs so she didn't get upset at all.

The rest of the evening, I continued on with her. When She barked, I placed her in the crate and walked away. I kept her on the leash all evening where Casey finally got sick of me and just layed down.

Well, this morning was a disaster. I proceeded to take Casey for a walk, with my 10 year old daughter. I asked my daughter to hold tightly to the leash because Caseys collar needed adjusted. As I bent down to fix it, the dog took off just like before, dragging my daughter acrossed the yard and almost over the cement before she was able to let go. My daughter was a muddy mess and all skinned up, she was crying and the dog was lost. Needless to say the dog went to the same house on the next block as before. I know I shouldn't let the kid hold the leash, even though I was holding the collar. Yes, I am very defeated. I ran over to the next block grabbed (tackled) the dog and dragged her home where she is sitting in her crate. She will not be going for any walks today. In the process, my glasses fell off and they are nowhere to be found. So todays loss, $200.00 for glasses, ripped clothing, $20.00, and ruined shoes, but mostly again I lost control!


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

First of all, I think you need professional help. I don't think you necessarily need private training, but you do need to get into classes with this dog. 

Second of all, kids need to not be involved with Casey's training- it's not safe for her or them. 

Thirdly, find a way to stop letting her escape. I would recommend using SOMETHING other than a collar that she can pull in- either a head halter or a prong (I suspect she's going to be too strong for a no-pull harness to be effective). I would use a slip leash (mendota type lead) and when you need to make adjustments- tie her to something- don't let anyone hold the leash. Get help fitting it from a pro. But every time she manages to do this, she's learning pulling = freedom. 

Unfortunately, she also sounds like she's really not getting enough exercise. 6 heeling walks isn't enough unless they're VERY long. Do you have a dog park nearby, or a friend with a fenced backyard? If you could find a backyard to use, I'd work on the leash behavior there, where there are fewer distractions.

Are you doing NILIF with her yet?


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

Oh, man....I can't even imagine.....my 17 lb dog was pulling alot yesterday when we were working on heel, and my arm was sore from _that_. I agree with working on this indoors or in a fenced yard without distractions first, then building up to walking around the block and where there are other people/dogs, etc.


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

Just a quick question for all who are reading the post about Casey. Do you think that Casey would do well by getting another dog (preferably another lab, older, trained) whom she could pal around with and occupy her play time with? Or is this NUTS!


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

No. You'll end up with two badly trained dogs, not just one.


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

It was just a thought


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I think your dog would benefit from exercise and playing with other dogs, but I honestly don't believe that you'll be able to manage two of them- you're having enough trouble with one.


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## applesmom (Jun 9, 2007)

Obviously this is currently too much dog for the family she's in. 

As a last resort before rehoming I'd suggest sending her to a good reputable doggie camp where she can be evaluated and hopefully retrained. Once she's retrained your family needs to be retrained by the same trainer before she goes home. 

If you're not willing or able to send her off for training, your best bet would be to contact a lab rescue to see if they can recommend someone to help solve your problems.

Your last option would be rehoming through a rescue. Even when rehoming through a rescue there is no guarantee that they will be able to find somone who is willing to put up with her lack of training and behavioral problems.

You'd have to steel yourself to the possibility that by making her someone elses problem; she may go through many homes and eventually wind up in shelter and being put down.

Good luck!


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## bailey1459 (Sep 24, 2007)

I think I found something that works! Casey was running from one thing to the next, then barking out of control. I grabbed an old whistle of my daughters and blew it once and the dog stopped in her tracks. She sat at attention, then layed down and just looked at me. It is the first time in 2 weeks she went out in the backyard by herself without barking for me. She is out laying by the pool without barking!! Yippee! Now, is a whistle ok to use? It was truly amazing that she stopped the behavior instantly. She actually looked perplexed. I think she thought I screamed. But she calmed down. Anyone else have this happen?


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

If it works, by all means use it. Just make sure you don't over use the whistle or it will become meaningless to her.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

What did you do once you had her attention? 

Never, ever gain a dog's attention and focus without 'doing' something with them!!! I know she may have sat and then laid down, but if it was all on her own, gaining her attention did nothing, really, for 'your cause'. Sure, she settled down, but again, you gained her attention, and then left her again..."IF" that was the case, that is!!! 

I will strongly recommend, ONCE AGAIN, that you need to seek a professional; I know you have brought this dog through two obedience courses but obviously they have done no good; you need someone who knows more than she does, who can help wrestle through these issues. Whether it's someone coming into your home 2-3 times a week, or you sending her off to doggie 'bootcamp', I think it is time to let someone else train her, and then have them teach you once her training is done...I think that is the only way you will find that you will enjoy your dog. 

As far as her dragging your daughter...well, no more flat buckle collars would be on her, if she were mine! Get a Prong collar, Halti, or someother kind of 'reinforcing' training collar...no offence, but after dragging your daughter through the mud, she needs something like this. Have them properly fitted though, and have someone show you how to properly use them! With prong collars, bigger does not mean better...the smaller the prong, the 'bigger' the 'bite'...Same with choke collars...the smaller the link, the more the 'punch behind your corrections. 

One thing I must point out, is that when you do walk with any kind of training collar, or halti, you MUST walk with a loose lead, otherwise when you go to correct, she will not really get a correction, due to her already pulling. 

Anyway, Again, I strongly recommend a professional trainer for your dog...she knows she has the upper hand, and unless she has someone who can come in and change that, things are not going to change.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

bailey1459 said:


> Just a quick question for all who are reading the post about Casey. Do you think that Casey would do well by getting another dog (preferably another lab, older, trained) whom she could pal around with and occupy her play time with? Or is this NUTS!



NO! Please don't do this to yourself! 

I believe you truly love your dog, and are doing your best. I can tell you from personal experience, this is not enough. You need professional help, and you're going to have to rethink and re-do what you're doing with this dog. 

In the meantime, implement NILIF into daily life ASAP.

Establish a daily routine with some structure, and stick with it every single day. 

RELAX. Take a deep breath. Stay calm when the dog is doing something you don't want her to do. Ignore the unwanted behavior, and redirect her to a (known) wanted behavior. Praise and reward for compliance. 

Do daily 30-min. down/stays where the dog remains on a matt/bed for 30 min. Every day. Keep an eagle eye so she does not have the opportunity to even start to get up from position. 

Do not allow your children to walk the dog. Do not involve them in any training work you're doing with her for now. 

When you are walking your dog, focus on the dog and remain in control of the dog. It's really not necessary to be walking a dog six times a day! You're setting yourself up to feel resentful toward your dog, and to end up feeling overwhelmed.

Teach your dog self control through training exercises. Even simple things such as a sit until released before letting her outside to play or potty. Keep training sessions brief (5-10 min.), and do several times throughout the day. Keep it FUN! For you, and for the dog. 

What about food? Do you free feed (leave food out in bowl at all times)? If you do, stop. Feed once in the morning, once in the evening. You are the benevolent leader, provider of all good things (attention, affection, food, toys, walks, etc.). 

I know what life can be like with a big, powerful dog who is unruly. I had a roommate with a Wolf hybrid who felt he had to call the shots because his owner just didn't get it. But, he was smart, loved to learn, and thrived on a daily routine with structure. He was glad to step back and let me take over. He weighed a good 135 lbs., and was taller than me when he stood on his hind legs. Fortunately for me, he loved me to death! He would greet me at the door standing on his hind legs, would place his paws on my shoulders and his open jaw over my face, making moaning groaning sounds, and breathing me in. I obedience trained him daily, and did a lot of road work with this boy, who became a joy to live with. His owner had been evicted from her place because of all the damage he had done to woodwork, doors, window screens, and more. 

You can make this work, but you're going to have to understand your role in your dogs unruly behavior. It's hard to accept, especially when you've been good to a dog, loving and kind, even after things like the ripped clothing, lost eyeglasses, and so on. Your dog needs routine, structure, and a leader who is calm and in control while teaching her what house rules are, and what is and is not allowed. 

Good luck to you.


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## barbj (Sep 24, 2007)

Hi Bailey,
I go regularly to a leash free dog park and the labs are the most active dogs there. My advice is stick with the whistle. It seems to have just the right pitch to control Casey. Also, when you come home, ignore her. Don't say hello. Act like she isn't there. When (if) she calms down and you are ready to greet her, keep your voice calm. Good luck.


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