# Wit's end - Please help me help my dog



## aheller75 (Jun 25, 2009)

Hello,

I have a 3.5 year old lab-great dane/greyhound mix who has been having some skin/itching/scratching issues over the last couple months. I have brought him to the vet several times and spent a lot of money, but at this point, we're not any closer to a solution and I wanted to see if anyone else out there has any advice. I just want to help my dog.

Sorry for the novel, but I wanted to be as descriptive as I could. Here is a basic timeline of events:

About 2 months ago, my dog started scratching a lot, sometimes to the point of bleeding, and licking/chewing the hair off the inside of his front and rear legs, as well as his belly. I brought him to the vet and after some skin scrapes and lab work, I was told that he had several issues. He had some sort of infection/irritation around his mouth (they gave us Malacetic wipes), dermatitis (they prescribed Cephalexin) and they also gave us some Revolution treatment for mites (just in case). They also prescribed Temaril-P for the itching.

After starting treatment, he seemed to be ok. The infection around his mouth cleared up and he was not scratching at all, so I thought he was on the mend and would be fine. The whole process took about 2 weeks, but after weaning him off Temaril-P, all symptoms returned. 

I called the vet and they prescribed another (longer) round of Temaril to relieve the itching. I voiced my concern about treating the symptom and not the disease, but they said that he should be fine and that we just need to manage the itching so his incessant scratching does not cause another outbreak. I would have figured that after 2 weeks of treatment, he's either better or not, but I digress.

Fast forward 3 weeks, after weaning him off the Temaril again, and all his symptoms are back. I bought him back to the vet again and this time around, they did not really have any more advice. They say he has most likely has allergies and recommended either changing his food or bringing him to an allergist. They gave me some benadryl and sent us on our way.

So here we are, 2 months after I first brought him to the vet, $500 poorer, my dog is still miserable and I really have no idea where to go from here. My dog is still scratching and is clearly uncomfortable. He has also developed some weird spots on the skin on his legs and belly (another symptom?). I hesitate to drop another $50 at the vet for an office visit, because they were less than helpful last time we were there and I don't think they can offer any new advice. I feel terrible that my dog is in such discomfort and I have no idea what I can do for him. 

I have been reading all sorts of stuff online and it seems that the most common thing is food allergies. We have been feeding him Natural Balance dry since he was a pup, any suggestions on what we could try? Should I just switch to the allergy version of the food he is currently on or try another brand? I would need something readily available at Petco/Petsmart. Should we keep him on the Benadryl? It seems to work to relieve the itching a little and any relief is good relief. 

Thanks a lot, in advance. I appreciate any help or insight that anyone could offer.

Adam


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Find a grain free, alternative protein source food, like Taste of the Wild High Prairie formula, or their Pacific formula. They sell it at many ag food stores, or PetsBarn, or google them for locations that sell it near you. It can take a couple of weeks to see any results. If possible, try to switch foods slowly to lessen any chances of diarrhea, and maybe have some pure, plain canned (not spiced pie filling) pumpkin on hand, to add a couple of tablespoons to his food if he gets loose stools at first.

I'd also bathe him with Microtek Shampoo, by Equess. Microtek also has an anti-itch spray that works well.

After he is dry from his bath, consider putting a long sleeved T shirt on him for walks on grassy area, in case it is a contact allergy. Remove T shirt afterwards trying not to get the outside of the shirt against his skin.

You might see if your vet would either give him a cortisone shot, or put him on low dose prednisone for a short while to break the itching cycle, while you are changing food. Some dogs with seasonal contact allergies, from grass/pollens need to be on low dose prednisone for the season when their allergies are worst, if Benadryl doesn't work. Pred is cheap. There can be some issues with being on it long term (and you want to wean off it slowly, not quit cold turkey), but if it comes down to quality of life, it can be worth it.


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## EtherealJane (May 31, 2010)

I'm a very new dog owner, so take my advice for what it's worth. My new dog Wesley had a very similar experience. He was fine on the Prednisone, but as soon as he was weaned off, the itching/gnawing came back. I too was feeding Natural Balance Ultra Premium. I switched to the Natural Balance Sweet Potato & Venison and it seems to have done the trick. The holistic vet I spoke to today said that generally fish & potato formulas work well in dogs with allergies too.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

It could help greatly if you were able to post pics of those "lumps" on his belly. Staph infections present with little pimple like bumps and wouls require another round of antibiotics or it WILL get worse. It could be allergy based, only way to find ouot is drop the money on allergy testing (being lab they are HIGHLY prone to allergies), or do a food elimination diet. Many dogs who have been on the same food for YEARS CAN and do suddenly develop allergies to it. He sounds like a dog that would benefit from a rotation diet as well. I would rather see you go with a cortisone shot which will give you 8 weeks of itch relief rather than constant benadryl as it does make your dog tired and listliss and that's no fun. My boxer/am bully Ollie can testify to that.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

I know there's tons of stuff on the net that would lead you to believe that food allergies are the most common source of these itchy dogs, but, that isn't correct. Atopy (AKA Atopic Dermatitis) is more common. However, they presentation of both the atopic dog and the food allergy dog will be nearly identical (and what you're describing is the "typical presentation"). In GENERAL (remember, not all dogs read the book on dermatology), atopic dogs will start showing signs between 6 mo and middle age. Food allergies tend to develop before 6 mo. or after 6 years. It should definitely be noted that a percentage (sorry, i can't recall the exact number) of dogs will have BOTH! 

I also am aware that grains are often accused of causing all of food allergies. It's been well established that the most common food allergies are from the meaty protein sources like beef, chicken, egg, and it seems that lamb is on the rise. Soy, Wheat and corn allergies DO EXIST though. However, I think a lot of the novel/alternative protein diets like the one SN mentioned will eliminate a lot of grains anyway so perhaps it could be a two birds with one stone situation? 

Soooo, if you want to see a vet that will really get to the root of your problem, seek a referral from your current vet to see a small animal dermatologist. This won't be terribly cheap. 

If you just want to completely rule out the food allergy side of things there are definitely some rules to follow. Do not rotate foods. Do some research and pick A food (kind of like the ones mentioned). Do not under any circumstances feed anything else to the dog (including treats, not even once) for at least 6-8 weeks. Yes, dogs come into our dermatology ward at the small animal hospital and take that long to resolve their food allergy issues. 

If you do it on your own it can be a guessing game. If it really is food, you've guessed right and your dog will feel better and you won't have spent the money trying to rule out and diagnose canine atopy. If you're wrong, your dog will continue to be miserable for at least a month or two and you've wasted time and plenty of money on pricey food. 

Whatever you do, don't waste more time and money pumping in medicine that has steroids in it like temaril P. It can be good stuff but, it seems obvious that it isn't fixing things. As my derm professor always said, "Damnit, don't go throwing steroids at everything. Find the underlying cause. Treat the disease, not the symptoms!"

Good luck and here are a couple quickie references on atopy and food allergies.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/70301.htm

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/70400.htm


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

I love it when Mr. (should be Dr.) V posts links to the Merck vet manual  it gives me goosebumps


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> I love it when Mr. (should be Dr.) V posts links to the Merck vet manual  it gives me goosebumps


Oh Kel... 

I like Merck. It is a nice, quick resource for when I forget some of the not so technical stuff. VIN definitely is a better tool for me when I want more specific info. I love VIN.


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## aheller75 (Jun 25, 2009)

Greetings all,

Wow, thanks for all the responses. I have read through some, but need to head to the office, so I wanted to get some pictures posted of these lumps as dog_shrink suggested. Sorry for the quality, it is tough to take decent pictures with a squirming dog. I thought that these might be bruise marks from him biting himself, but they are not scabbed (though a little flaky) and they are not "pustulace" (i.e. not filled like a blister).

Thanks again for all your help and will read through thoroughly later today.

Adam


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Mr. V said:


> Oh Kel...
> 
> I like Merck. It is a nice, quick resource for when I forget some of the not so technical stuff. VIN definitely is a better tool for me when I want more specific info. I love VIN.


Then me thinks you need to post a link to VIN (or send one to me privately  ) so I have a new site to get goosebumps over


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Hm... to the OP... those look like it could be the beginning of a staph infection or other bacterial infection which can certainly happen if the dog is constantly licking/chewing n areas of his body.


Staph infection:


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

I certainly would, but, you couldn't access it. VIN is kind of like a forum for vets and vet students (maybe techs too? not sure). It allows vets from all over to ask each other questions and compares cases (many will post their xrays, ultrasound pics, etc..). I find it to be a very nice place since there are TONS of specialists that are always there to answer specific questions. I've had several questions brought to me here on dogforums that I wasn't really sure of the answer and was able to ask it on VIN to get it. 

In a way, it would be really helpful if some people from the general public could access it, but, in other ways it would just kind of ruin the site. I doubt if they'll ever change their policy. Honestly, most of the info is available to one degree or another somewhere on the internet. It's just that with VIN I can navigate very quickly and precisely to what I want to find without having to dig through a bunch of the usual BS.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Mr. V said:


> I certainly would, but, you couldn't access it. VIN is kind of like a forum for vets and vet students (maybe techs too? not sure). It allows vets from all over to ask each other questions and compares cases (many will post their xrays, ultrasound pics, etc..). I find it to be a very nice place since there are TONS of specialists that are always there to answer specific questions. I've had several questions brought to me here on dogforums that I wasn't really sure of the answer and was able to ask it on VIN to get it.
> 
> In a way, it would be really helpful if some people from the general public could access it, but, in other ways it would just kind of ruin the site. I doubt if they'll ever change their policy. Honestly, most of the info is available to one degree or another somewhere on the internet. It's just that with VIN I can navigate very quickly and precisely to what I want to find without having to dig through a bunch of the usual BS.


Aw that's too bad. At least we have an inside source tho


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## aheller75 (Jun 25, 2009)

Hello,

Just an update. I took my dog to the vet again last night and they did some lab work on the sores that he has on his belly. The vet said she found staph cells, rods (?) and a lot of yeast. She prescribed Ciproflaxin for the infection and gave me some Dermapet shampoo for the yeast.

We will also be starting the food trial shortly, see if we can get rid of this once an for all.

Again, thanks everyone for the info, much appreciated!

Adam


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Make sure he has plenty of water to drink while on the ciprofloxacin. Dehydrated dogs on this class of antibiotics will sometimes develop crystals in their urine.


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