# Papillion Grooming?



## unearth777 (Jul 21, 2011)

I have a male Papillion. I know there hair is supposed to be long, but I prefer to keep his hair short. I'm not having a problem grooming the hair on his body, but the hair on his tail and his head is getting extremely long and does not look good with the short hair on his body. I still want him to keep some look of a Papillion without the hair being too long.

I have searched for pictures, but I only find long hair styles. Does anyone have any suggestions for cutting the hair on his face and tail without sacraficing the "Papillion" look. 

Thanks in advance for your time.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Nope. I find that trimmed papillons end up looking like long-haired chihuahuas. The fringed ears are the main aesthetic "point" of a papillon; if you cut the fringe, the dog will not resemble the butterfly it's named after anymore.

Why don't you want to keep his hair its natural length?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

When you say hair on his face, what do you mean? If he's a papillon, the hair on his face should be short naturally. They're a fairly wash and wear breed. There shouldn't be any extensive grooming or clipping of their hair.

I'd never cut my papillons' hair. I don't really get the point of getting a longhaired dog then cutting the hair off, honestly.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I know one lady who does it -- she lives in the country and has some larger dogs plus a papillon. The dogs love to run in the fields, and the large ones get their legs all muddy, while the papillon gets absolutely covered, haha. She was bathing him literally every day and finally had enough and shaved down his coat. She left his ears and tail long, though.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Oh, my neighbor has done it (and his is a papillon/pom mix) and it actually looked really good for his dog! It looked something like this









I'm not sure if it would turn out the same for a full blood Papillon, but you could try if you keep his hair short anyway 

Aha! here is a papillon with that sort of cut.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

That pap just looks chihuahua-like to me with its fringe cut like that. I think shaved poms look ridiculous, too. It's also bad for the coat, so I cringe every time I see it.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

You don't have to trim the fringes back that far if you don't want to. There is probably a point where the hair gets tangly and a bit shorter it is easy to handle but still hangs properly. I would use blending or thinning shears to take the fringes back 1/2" at a time until you find that point.

Max is a spaniel mix with a not very dense long double coat. I find that keeping his undercoat cleaned out helps with tangles as much as having it shorter than the critical length and his fur dries really fast as well. If the fringes are taken back too far they stick out or look too trimmed and I cut into them with the shears to thin a bit so the fringes lay more naturally and look fringe-er.

I wonder if the cute dogs cynster posted photos of would look more natural if the undercoat was carded out so the coat lays flatter which looks better with a short coat?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Paps shouldn't have undercoats at all though. It's a single, silky coat. To me that pap looks like it had a weird coat type to begin with. Honestly mine go all over the place then look just fine afterwards. I'm not sure if it's the coat type or what but mine can be literally covered in mud then come home looking clean. (Now the smell is another story lol)

Very few dogs have enough fringe that it should be a real problem. I don't do anything special with mine- rarely ever brush it and yet we still have Rose looking like this:


DSC_0506 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

I wonder what she'd look like if I actually tried to grow her fringe out and didn't just cut it whenever it had a tangle.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not going to lie -- I personally prefer the look of a Pap without so much ear fringe. I think they are adorable as puppies when they don't have as much. I totally get that's the reason for the NAME of the breed and all, but, just personal preference. Too much ear hair is just a pet peeve of mine. When Jackson's starts to get longer, I can't wait to 'tip' his ears like you do to Yorkies and other breeds. I also don't like when his feet get too long, bothers me, too, haha.

I'd never shave the body of a Papillon-like dog. I don't get when people get Husky's, Golden's, etc, shaved.... I will say that I think a Pomeranian looks much cuter shaved, I do prefer that look on them for some reason. But my step-mom got her Dachshund-spaniel looking mix shaved last year and his hair now just grows back all poofy and funky so now we have to shave him for the rest of his life probably, I just feel it never grew back the same.

However, all the 'non-shedding' breeds like Yorkies, Havanese, Maltese, etc, I have no problem shaving them because the hair grows back exactly the same and it's just like cutting off human hair. I don't see anything wrong with wanting a Yorkie, for example, but not wanting the long hair. It's too much of a pain in the butt. I love the terrier breed and personality, etc, but don't wanna deal with long hair when he is so active.

Btw, your location says Eastern Shore... is that of Maryland? If so, I'm right near you! My dad lives in Queenstown.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I'm not going to lie -- I personally prefer the look of a Pap without so much ear fringe. I think they are adorable as puppies when they don't have as much. I totally get that's the reason for the NAME of the breed and all, but, just personal preference. Too much ear hair is just a pet peeve of mine. When Jackson's starts to get longer, I can't wait to 'tip' his ears like you do to Yorkies and other breeds. I also don't like when his feet get too long, bothers me, too, haha.
> 
> I'd never shave the body of a Papillon-like dog. I don't get when people get Husky's, Golden's, etc, shaved.... I will say that I think a Pomeranian looks much cuter shaved, I do prefer that look on them for some reason. But my step-mom got her Dachshund-spaniel looking mix shaved last year and his hair now just grows back all poofy and funky so now we have to shave him for the rest of his life probably, I just feel it never grew back the same.
> 
> ...


I've cut down papillons before, and hated the results. The dogs's coat went from silky and flat-lying to poufy and dull. When mom got Jazz, his coat was poofy and out of control (he looked like a chow on meth). Mom skims his body with a guard comb to make it lie flat, and scissors his feathering to match. He looks good this way. But clipping a pap with a clipper blade with no guard comb isn't my cup of tea. If people with papillons (and goldens, poms, etc) want less hair, we do a de-shed (paps don't shed, but you can comb a lot of hair out), and trim the feathering up short and keep the chest and underline very tight. The dog still looks good (no shave lines, no coat damage) but is "sporty" looking  

As far as the ear fringe goes, I like ear fringe...in moderation. Tag has fringe, Dude does not. Dude NEVER got ear fringe, and people routinely ask me why I trim it xD When I *DO* trim ear fringe on any breed (Yorkie, Westie, Papillon, Pomeranian, etc) I use thinning shearers, NOT SCISSORS!! I think blunt-cutting ears looks hideous when you could take an extra 5 minutes and make the cut-line on the ears look more natural, and therefore softening the dogs's face and expression. (I learned if you use scissors on a goldens ears instead of thinning shearers, you make the dog have a very "hard" expression. Not something most people want).










You can see Rocky (far right) has very little fringe, Polly (underneath him) has very little, though we're pretty sure she's not 100% papillon. Dude is 2nd from the left, and you can see his lack-of ear fringe as well. Tag is on the left (with plenty of fringe), Jazz is black and white (he has enough but not an over-abundance), and Pride (3rd from the right) has plenty as well. It's kind of fun having a mixed bag xD








This little guy is cute, but I don't care for the abundance of fringe (my opinion only). 








Gorgeous dog, but more ear fringe than I would want. Although, looking at the pictures, I'm starting to think that it's the ear SET I don't care for, instead of the ear fringe amount. It seems the more fringe a papillon has, the lower the ear set is, and I like a high (perky looking) ear set 








This (IMO) is PERFECT! 

And just for fun. 
(Tag) I iz Kyoot?


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## WeeBitsy (Jul 31, 2011)

Just wanted to say thank you for this thread! Been lurking a while but this one brought me out. We're just getting settled in with our new family member, Bitsy the papillon. She's the most darling, feisty little bit of dog! And when I eventually figure out how to post pictures, i'll prove it.  But, while I've had dogs all my life, taking care of this type of coat is a new one for me, WAY different than my last terrier mix.  And am now adding thinning shears to the list...


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Papillon coats are actually really easy to care for. If the coat's conditioned, it really shouldn't tangle, and a lot of dirt should fall right off. Brush once a week or so (pin brush works great), bathe once a month (with shampoo and a separate conditioner). Trim the hair on the feet and hocks if you like (I know that Laurelin and I do). That's really it.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I was going to link the Braylor's grooming page. It's probably the easiest one out there to read and has example pics too. They're an easy breed to groom, you'll find. Nice long pretty and soft hair without a ton of upkeep. They spoil me.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Laurelin, Rose is absolutely STUNNING. (As are all the dogs, but that particular photo is just... wow.)

I'm curious... How does shaving a Pom damage it's coat, with fur being dead skin cells to begin with?

And a Papillon's coat (and the variety!!!) is part of what attracted me to this breed too!


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## yappypappymom (Oct 22, 2009)

I have a gross-distortion of imagining ANY paps w/groomed hair!!  Besides from their feet that need tapering, & pads that need trimmed, (also, some of them need butt-trims)..I think that paps have wonderful, NATURAL "coats" that just don't require much grooming AT ALL! Quite an easy breed to manage on the eyes.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Canyx said:


> I'm curious... How does shaving a Pom damage it's coat, with fur being dead skin cells to begin with?


I believe that the outer guard hairs grow at a different rate from the undercoat, so when you shave it all, it can cause problems when the fur grows back in -- the dog can look patchy and scruffy. Sometimes the coat may never get back to its original glory. I gather that this is more common with dogs that are shaved often rather than just once a year or so, but it depends on the dog. I'm sure a groomer could tell you more.

Shaved dogs are more susceptible to sunburn, and shaving doesn't cool them down in summer as much as people would think, as the double coat insulates them from both cold and heat. I wish everyone could see my two -- Crystal, with her single coat, is often panting in the heat while Casper, with his double husky coat, is just fine.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

If you want to trim your pap down, go for it. People get poodles, bichons, shih tzu's etc every day because they want that breed, hopefully for personality and temperment, the LAST concern should be looks and hair. I never see a "pet" poodle kept in correct show trims, never a bichon in full correct show trim, shih tzu either. I don't say, why get a poodle and not keep it in the "correct" trim. Its a pet, and you can trim the hair to suit your lifestyle, and you shouldn't feel guilty about it.  You love your dog because he is your dog, not because his hair is just so.


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## appyrances (Aug 4, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> But my step-mom got her Dachshund-spaniel looking mix shaved last year and his hair now just grows back all poofy and funky so now we have to shave him for the rest of his life probably, I just feel it never grew back the same.
> 
> However, all the 'non-shedding' breeds like Yorkies, Havanese, Maltese, etc, I have no problem shaving them because the hair grows back exactly the same and it's just like cutting off human hair. I don't see anything wrong with wanting a Yorkie, for example, but not wanting the long hair. It's too much of a pain in the butt. I love the terrier breed and personality, etc, but don't wanna deal with long hair when he is so active.



Just an FYI - these breeds DO shed (which is why, I assumed, you put "non-shedding" in quotations). In any case, I just want to clarify... it's not like some dogs have "hair" and others have "fur" - it's all the same stuff.

Like with shaving your legs (or pits or beards, etc.), if you wait long enough, the coat will come back in the way it was intended to be. It's just quite a waiting game....


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## HarajukuGoober (Aug 5, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> When you say hair on his face, what do you mean? If he's a papillon, the hair on his face should be short naturally. They're a fairly wash and wear breed. There shouldn't be any extensive grooming or clipping of their hair.
> 
> I'd never cut my papillons' hair. I don't really get the point of getting a longhaired dog then cutting the hair off, honestly.


I agree with this!! Why get a long coated dog and cut off all his hair?? =[


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

HarajukuGoober said:


> I agree with this!! Why get a long coated dog and cut off all his hair?? =[


Because hopefully, people are choosing the dog/breed for its temperment, personality, ability to fit in with their lifestyle, and hair last but least..the nice thing about dogs, is its only hair, and you can shave it, and it grows right back so you can shave it again. There is more to life than brushing, combing and dematting your dog, or everyone who owned a poodle would keep it in it's correct coat, Continental show trim. Bichons would be kept in show coat with full head and legs. Cocker spaniels would be handstripped and in full flowing coat. Harsh coated terriers would ONLY be handstripped, etc and so on. The last thing someone should be thinking about when choosing a breed is the coat.


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## WeeBitsy (Jul 31, 2011)

I'd disagree with that just a bit. Not saying it's make or break but the amount, type and difficulty of properly grooming your dog is something that should be considered if you're making a well thought out choice. Because sometimes the amount a dog sheds could be the important point for someone ultimately keeping the dog. Sounds silly but they are out there 

For me, meet a Puli once, the bob marley of dogs, and LOVED him but the care that kinda coat needs? No way would I consider it.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

WeeBitsy said:


> I'd disagree with that just a bit. Not saying it's make or break but the amount, type and difficulty of properly grooming your dog is something that should be considered if you're making a well thought out choice. Because sometimes the amount a dog sheds could be the important point for someone ultimately keeping the dog. Sounds silly but they are out there
> 
> For me, meet a Puli once, the bob marley of dogs, and LOVED him but the care that kinda coat needs? No way would I consider it.


I am not saying coat should not be considered, but it should not be the reason someone gets a particular dog. Puli's do not have to be kept corded, and breeders shave them down once they are done showing because of the upkeep of the cords. You can certainly keep a puli in any length of trim you like, if you like the breed for what it is. Also, as a professional groomer, I will say that most people do NOT brush and groom their dogs at home in any way shape or form. Heck, its rare that people even wipe the eye boogies out on occassion. That is why I have a job..cause most people dont want to do it themselves, and they don't have to. There are millions of groomers out there. If a family just loves the golden retriever as a breed, and loves the temperment, has kids, etc etc and the breed would fit wonderfully in their lifestyle, the coat should be a minimal consideration. The shedding can be controlled with regular professional groomings, and if the hair is still an issue, or the dog spends alot of time in lakes and mud, cutting it short is always an option...the same goes with yorkies, shih tzu, poodles, etc. Shih tzu's are just the sweetest little dogs, great family dogs, lots of personality, fun etc..but who wants to deal with a full coated one? I am a groomer and I certainly don't! That doesn't mean someone shouldn't get one because they want to keep it cut short. Its hair..there is alot more to dogs than their hair. Alot.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

appyrances said:


> Just an FYI - these breeds DO shed (which is why, I assumed, you put "non-shedding" in quotations). In any case, I just want to clarify... it's not like some dogs have "hair" and others have "fur" - it's all the same stuff.
> 
> Like with shaving your legs (or pits or beards, etc.), if you wait long enough, the coat will come back in the way it was intended to be. It's just quite a waiting game....


Yes, Yorkies have hair rather than fur. They shed about as much as a human would. Well, actually, I find more of my own hairs than Jackson's, but if I brush him some may come out, but hardly any.

I just meant that I think it's completely normal for the hypoallergenic breeds, if you want to call them that, to be shaved into a "puppy cut" because if not, a Yorkie's hair, for example, will keep growing and reach the floor. Where a Papillon and other breeds don't, it's kind of pointless to shave them. But Shihtzu's, Maltese, Yorkie, Havanese, etc, are really common to shave or trim down and their hair will grow back just the same. You shave a Husky or a Papillon or even a long haired Dachshund and it most likely WON'T grow back the same.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I've heard that it takes about two years for a papillon's fringe to fully grow back if cut, so yeah, they're pretty different from those breeds with the continuously-growing hair. Papillon fur stops growing once it reaches a certain length, and it's quite easy to care for (literally one brushing every week and one bath per month usually does it), so I don't see the point in shaving them. With yorkies and shih tzus and Maltese and the like, I understand why people would clip or shave! They are difficult to care for in full coat. Even the shih tzu show breeders I know clip their dogs down once show season is over.


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