# Switching From Taste of the Wild



## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

ok... well... i normally dont do this but... my girls have been on taste of the wild for the last 3yrs. i typically dont get too hyped about the recalls, especially when they dont concern my food. i think ive just had it with diamond though. dont get me wrong, i love the food and my girls do great on it, but i just can stand the recalls from them. now with the production stopping as well, the prices have went up a LOT here. yay... today im going to go pricing and see what i can find. i have a few in mind i want to look at, but the price is going to have a big effect on what i buy. not to mention poor Lexi gets "booty blowout" when we switch foods. poor girl....


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Will you let us know what you decide? Katie is on TOTW, but I'm seriously thinking about finding something else - even if we just rotate TOTW with a non-Diamond food so that we have another option for times such as this. We have half a 30lb bag of the lamb formula and a full 30lb bag of the fish formula, so I have time to research and transition. Sometimes I wish I knew and cared less - life would be so much easier.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I bought a bag of Blue Basic Limited Ingredients for sensitivities last Saturday. I did a 50/50 mix and have had no digestive issues or gas or loose stools. I want to switch from 4Health and TOTW to this. The only ingredients I am a little leery of are the oil of rosemary and garlic. I am reading that they are in very small quantities.

I pay just as much for two different foods as it would cost me for just the BB. in a large quantity. I am just tired of all the recalls whether they are being responsible about it or not.

And really as far as the garlic goes ... nothing is totally proven ... my mixed Terrier mutt lived for 17 years on my Mother's cooking and ate spaghetti sauce at least once a week with garlic in it. He never got ill ... just had a stroke at age 15 ... probably from high cholesterol! lol!  

Maybe some day when they get their act together I will try them again.


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm switching Potsie to Acana from TOTW for the same reason. I'm tired of hearing about Diamond recalls every few years. I may throw Blue Buffalo Wilderness into the rotation eventually, too. Other good foods are Instinct and Earthborn. Origen is good, but terribly expensive, and it causes stomach upset in a lot of dogs b/c it's so rich, so I avoid that one.

If your dog has issues when you switch foods, do it slower. I usually do it over the course of about 3-4 weeks. Also, try putting a spoonful of no fat Greek yogurt in the food to help settle a gassy tummy. If your dog gets diahrrea, try adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to her food (NOT pumpkin pie filling).


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

You could try Blue Buffalo or Castor & Pollux with some pumpkin added to it. Also, I give my pup Prozyme when I switch foods. I don't bother mixing old food with new, just switch cold turkey. She doesn't seem to have any issues so long as I add the Prozyme every day for a week or two. Oh, and if you go to Blue Buffalo's website and compare your food to Blue then you can get a $5 coupon.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

For somewhat budget friendly grainfree's, look at Earthborn. Other grainfrees that are good but not as cheap are Acana, Canine Caviar and Annamaet.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

I have to see what's available around here and what its priced at. Thanks for the info guys, I actually run a canine nutrition seminar around wny and I have a client base for nutrition consults, so I have good methods for changing foods and how to help with gi upsets. I have to go pricing today, that will be the deciding factor. If I was switching from a low quality food I wouldn't care about price, but seeing as how they only eat 4 cups a day each, I don't see being able to feed much less than that to a 125lb dog!


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

So after some shopping today I decided to go with Back to Basics. Its a little more expencive but I really loved the ingredients.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Abbylynn said:


> I bought a bag of Blue Basic Limited Ingredients for sensitivities last Saturday. I did a 50/50 mix and have had no digestive issues or gas or loose stools. I want to switch from 4Health and TOTW to this. The only ingredients I am a little leery of are the oil of rosemary and garlic. I am reading that they are in very small quantities.
> 
> I pay just as much for two different foods as it would cost me for just the BB. in a large quantity. I am just tired of all the recalls whether they are being responsible about it or not.
> 
> ...


http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scrip...rand_list.cfm?Trade_Name=BLUE BUFFALO&pet=Dog. If you are concerned about recalled foods (you'd better be planning on home cooking your meals if you want dog food that's never been in a factory with a recall.) I also would note where the Blue Buffalo recall came from. It appears to be from USDA, which means that they didn't test and they didn't do a voluntary recall.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> For somewhat budget friendly grainfree's, look at Earthborn. Other grainfrees that are good but not as cheap are Acana, Canine Caviar and Annamaet.


Thanks for mentioning Earthborn. It looks to be very close in quality and price to TOTW so I'm going to add it to my rotation. It will be nice to add turkey as another protein source not available in any of the TOTW formulas.

EDIT: Actually, now that I look at it, the Primitive Natural is pretty comparable to Orijen...and I found it on Amazon with free shipping for only $3 more than I spend on TOTW in the store. Nice. Here's the link if anyone's interested.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scrip...rand_list.cfm?Trade_Name=BLUE BUFFALO&pet=Dog. If you are concerned about recalled foods (you'd better be planning on home cooking your meals if you want dog food that's never been in a factory with a recall.) I also would note where the Blue Buffalo recall came from. It appears to be from USDA, which means that they didn't test and they didn't do a voluntary recall.


Interesting ... thank you.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

i truthfully dont care for blue buffalo anyway. i think its way overpriced for the ingredients that are in it. and i understand a lot of foods have been recalled, trust me. but im just tired of having so many issues with diamond being recalled most of the time, and with the stop of shipment/production, the prices of diamond have gone up so high that the ingredients no longer match the price!


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

I am thinking about doing Earthborn via Amazon and also Blackwoods grain free. I'm like others I'm just done with Diamond and all their issues.


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## amosmoses89 (Jun 19, 2011)

I wouldn't mind switching off of TOTW but I cannot find a comparable grain free alternative for the price. $45 for a 30 lb bag. If the prices start to skyrocket in my area I will look for another food of course, but for right now we're staying with it. 

On a side note, I was looking on Amazon and found this:
http://www.amazon.com/Grandma-Lucys-Artisan-Grain-Formula/dp/B0016A91PS/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_4

Why is it $75 for a 10 lb bag?!?! What am I missing??


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

kafkabeetle said:


> Thanks for mentioning Earthborn. It looks to be very close in quality and price to TOTW so I'm going to add it to my rotation. It will be nice to add turkey as another protein source not available in any of the TOTW formulas.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, now that I look at it, the Primitive Natural is pretty comparable to Orijen...and I found it on Amazon with free shipping for only $3 more than I spend on TOTW in the store. Nice. Here's the link if anyone's interested.



I have feed the Earthborn Primitive Natural for almost 3 years now; plus for 5 months to the foster pup Luna, and think it is a very good quality food. Made in Indiana and has no ingredients that concern me (even their fish is a-ok!)
I pay $50 for a 28 lbs bag at our local pet shop (the kind of pet shop that has humane society adoptions and not pet sales....) and 80 lbs Chester eats 2.5 cups/day or basically a bag per month.



amosmoses89 said:


> I wouldn't mind switching off of TOTW but I cannot find a comparable grain free alternative for the price. $45 for a 30 lb bag. If the prices start to skyrocket in my area I will look for another food of course, but for right now we're staying with it.
> 
> On a side note, I was looking on Amazon and found this:
> http://www.amazon.com/Grandma-Lucys-Artisan-Grain-Formula/dp/B0016A91PS/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_4
> ...


Grandma Lucy's is a dehydrated food. 10 lbs should equal out to about 50 lbs of dry dog food.
And for you I would also recommend the Earthborn grain-free choices; they are about the same price as TOTW.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

amosmoses89 said:


> I wouldn't mind switching off of TOTW but I cannot find a comparable grain free alternative for the price. $45 for a 30 lb bag. If the prices start to skyrocket in my area I will look for another food of course, but for right now we're staying with it.
> 
> On a side note, I was looking on Amazon and found this:
> http://www.amazon.com/Grandma-Lucys-Artisan-Grain-Formula/dp/B0016A91PS/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_4
> ...


It says it's freeze dried so I assume it's extremely dense and you don't have to feed much at all. I don't know for sure but it might be intended to be rehydrated as well, so 10 pounds is probably a lot more once rehydrated. I'm sure it's still expensive, though.

I agree though, that it's hard to beat the value of TOTW. Earthborn seems to come close though, at least where I've seen it online.

EDIT: lol, Shell beat me to it. ;p


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## amosmoses89 (Jun 19, 2011)

lol I hate when that happens!!! Take all the time to type out everything and somebody beats you to it.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Fromm is, IMO, one of the most reputable companies around. If you find a formula of theirs that your does well on, can't wrong with them. Never had a recall, small family owned business, reputable company, fantastic customer service, testing, and all that.

We've also always had the best luck with Acana as well.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I was just looking at foods available on Amazon in the same price range as TOTW (since most seem to have free shipping) and found something calledHi-Tek Naturals Grain Free. It seems good for the same price as TOTW (it got a 4.5 on dogfoodadvisor). Just thought I'd mention it since people were exploring different foods.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

http://www.wag.com/dog/p/acana-wild-prairie-154432

wagny25 will get you a 25% discount and you get free shipping at 50 bucks. I know you are seeing sticker shock right now, but believe me it really isn't that much of a difference because servings are smaller for Acana then TOTW. At first I was freaking out, but they eat less and it ends up being about the same price for each meal. Plus, they LOVE it.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

kafkabeetle said:


> I was just looking at foods available on Amazon in the same price range as TOTW (since most seem to have free shipping) and found something calledHi-Tek Naturals Grain Free. It seems good for the same price as TOTW (it got a 4.5 on dogfoodadvisor). Just thought I'd mention it since people were exploring different foods.


 i looked at hi-tek. i wasnt too impressed. the first ingredient is meat but the next are already starting into potato. there is more meat later on, but i liked to see a couple meats already in the ingredients right off the bat.


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

GreatDaneMom said:


> i looked at hi-tek. i wasnt too impressed. the first ingredient is meat but the next are already starting into potato. there is more meat later on, but i liked to see a couple meats already in the ingredients right off the bat.


It's important to look at the protein percentage, too. Two of the TOTW formulas have only 25% protein (pacific stream and sierra mountain). If you just look at ingredients you can be fooled. The percentages tell you how much filler is truly in there (in this case, a ton of potatoes). There are much better grain-free options than those two TOTW formulas.

I rotate foods for better nutrition. I think variety is more important than any single food, just like in human nutrition. I just ordered bags of Earthborn Holistic Primitive, EVO, BB wilderness, and orijen. I never feed the same food twice in a row. Just another perspective!


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

protein percentage alone wont tell you how many fillers are in there. you can see it right in the ingredients list. protein can come from other sources than meat. so just because the percentage is high, doesnt mean its coming from meat, which is where i want my protein to come from. for example, peas are high in protein. 

also while you may be able to switch between those foods, not every dogs GI tract can handle that. my dogs are on a gradual 3 week transition with their foods because lexi is very sensitive and gets severe diarrhea if her diet is changed too much. when i was on TOTW my dogs could rotate the flavors because the formula was pretty much the same, just the meat source was different. that was tolerable for lexi. but i cant flat out switch foods.

if i switched from blue buffalo to orijen, it would be a disaster. orijen is a very rich food, and blue buffalo is not.


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

EVO was sold out to I think Proctor and Gamble,so I don't think you're gonna be getting quality there. Orijen while is a premium food many people find that there dogs don't tolerate it well and it is very expensive for most people. So it doesn't matter if its made from the best meat in the world if it doesn't work for your dog its not any good.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

just to take a peek. i looked at the blue buffalo wilderness adult chicken. it may have 36% protein BUT the first ingredient is meat "deboned chicken" which means its about 80% water wight (by the way, ingredients are listed in order of weight in the food), "chicken meal" is the second, which is better because thats without the water weight, turkey meal is the 4th ingredient. within some of the top ingredients are peas, tomato pomace, potatoes, flaxseed, alfalfa meal and barley grass.... all contain good amounts of protein..... just saying.... knowing what kind of protein youre getting is more important than how much is in the food total. for example excess protein has been believed to be a contributing factor in growth diseases in giant breeds. what was found is that dogs on a raw diet (very high protein right there) were fine, why? because of the protein source. protein from meats is much more usable in their bodies than the protein from veggies and other sources, so it didnt lead to the same problems.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Sure, but if one food has just "chicken meal" and another has a whole bunch of meat meals, it doesn't necessarily mean that the weight of _all the different meat meals combined_ is higher than just the chicken meal. These numbers are just off the top of my head for the sake of explanation, but say there was 10 pounds of chicken meal as part of the listed ingredient "chicken meal" in one food, but only 2 pounds of "venison meal", "buffalo meal" and "duck meal" for a total of only 6 pounds of meat meal in another food. I would still buy the food that contained only chicken meal because there is more total meat in the food.

And anyway, when we're comparing Hi-Tek and TOTW we aren't dealing with meals vs. fresh meat, so your example isn't really applicable here. I agree that meat protein is preferable to plant protein...but I'm not aware of Hi-Tek containing any plant based protein boosters, so I'm not really sure why you mentioned it. Anyway, apparently it has not been confirmed that their foods are ethoxyquin-free (which is why they lost half a star). To me that would be the only really valid reason to advise against this food.

You could also argue that the dogs that did well on high protein raw diets and badly on high protein kibble diets were seeing improvements because of their increased water intake from the fresh meat. Would those high protein kibbles have been ok if they had been wetted down, or their dogs had been otherwise encouraged to drink the same amount of water as the raw meat would have provided? I don't know, but it's a question worth asking before jumping to conclusions.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

first off, i didnt compare raw to kibble. it was a comparison of where the protein is coming from. we KNOW the protein is coming from the meat in a raw diet, this is why this is an OK diet for a giant breed, even though people will say to stay away from a high protein diet. i wasnt even comparing hi-tek to TOTW. and my exaple IS applicable. as far as hi-tek goes, the grain free contains peas, potatoes, eggs, etc. so there is protein coming from more than just meat. sweet potato, potato and peas are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ingredients. im not saying that there is a kibble that contains no other source of protein in it, but the point is where the majority comes from.

secondly, you dont know the poundage of the ingredients in the food. but they are listed in weight, this is why i like to see my meats be the basis of my first ingredients. if the ingredients are listed "chicken, chicken meal, potatoes, deboned chicken" its more chicken than if it were listed "chicken, potatoes, deboned chicken, chicken meal". lets just say the poundage for the ingredients is "10,8,6,4".... the first ingredients add up to 22 lbs of meat and 6lbs of potatoes, where as the second is 20lbs of meat and 8lbs of potato (not taking into account water weight because the poundage numbers are just hypothetical) 

theird, i still am not sure why you are comparing raw and kibble diets? this was not the point, to decide which is better. the point was the effects of protein on a growing giant breed puppy depending on where the source was.....


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

GreatDaneMom said:


> protein percentage alone wont tell you how many fillers are in there. you can see it right in the ingredients list. protein can come from other sources than meat. so just because the percentage is high, doesnt mean its coming from meat, which is where i want my protein to come from. for example, peas are high in protein.


The same exact conversation came up in a different thread. I said there, I'm not saying that TOTW is bad, and I know that meat isn't the only protein source in dog food -- but meat has more protein by weight than vegetable sources. I also am not advocating looking solely at the protein percentage -- the ingredients also should be taken into account. My point (more clearly stated) is that you can't just look at one or the other, you have to look at _both _ingredients _and _guaranteed analysis, because it gives you a more complete picture. I think the TOTW formulas with 25% protein are too low, unless there's some kind of health or tolerance issue going on.

That's true about some dogs being too sensitive for constant changes. Would it be possible to mix kibbles in your storage container, if you wanted to? So each serving was the same mix of different foods?



momof3 said:


> EVO was sold out to I think Proctor and Gamble,so I don't think you're gonna be getting quality there. Orijen while is a premium food many people find that there dogs don't tolerate it well and it is very expensive for most people. So it doesn't matter if its made from the best meat in the world if it doesn't work for your dog its not any good.


I don't remember who bought Innova, but I know a lot of people were worried about it changing. So far I think one of the vitamins was sourced differently, which concerned some. But I don't think there have been any other changes, that I know of.



GreatDaneMom said:


> just to take a peek. i looked at the blue buffalo wilderness adult chicken. it may have 36% protein...


My source says it has 42% protein. The top six ingredients are: Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Potato Starch, Turkey Meal, Whitefish Meal, Salmon Meal


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

GreatDaneMom said:


> theird, i still am not sure why you are comparing raw and kibble diets? this was not the point, to decide which is better. the point was the effects of protein on a growing giant breed puppy depending on where the source was.....


lol, I was merely responding to YOUR statements on the matter. I agree that it is confusing why raw food entered the discussion at all. (your statements quoted below)



GreatDaneMom said:


> for example excess protein has been believed to be a contributing factor in growth diseases in giant breeds. what was found is that dogs on a raw diet (very high protein right there) were fine, why? because of the protein source. protein from meats is much more usable in their bodies than the protein from veggies and other sources, so it didnt lead to the same problems.


All I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't _assume_ a food is inferior just because there's one meat source, unless you can point out a specific plant based protein booster in the food. You mentioned peas, but this food does not contain peas. It doesn't contain any plant protein meals either, so I think I have pretty good reason to believe that a majority of the protein in this food is coming from meat.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

*palm to forehead* did i say the food was inferior? no. i said i wasnt impressed with it, thats MY opinion on how I feel and what I want to spend MY money on. if you cant get the point of why i brought up raw food then youre not reading the whole post. protein from meat is better than protein from plant, how hard is that to understand? the raw example of the protein on a giant breed growth is a prime example of meat proteins being better than plant. thats ALL i was saying. i dont understand why people want to twist things around all the time. i was NOT comparing raw to kibble, it was an EXAMPLE of how protein sources are DIFFERENT. and based on your last post, i dont even know what doG for saken food youre talking about that youre believing the majority of protein is coming from meat?! there have been a number of foods spoken about. 

as far as 25% protein being too low... a 33lb dog requires a daily protein allowance of 25g of protein. if i feed my 120lb dog 4 cups of a food at 25% protein (120/33=3.63...lb of my dog / 33lb dog 1cup=225g... convert cups to grams 25x3.63=90.75.... grams of protein for 33lb x the size my dog is 4x225=900... cups x grams 900x.25=225..... total grams x protein percentage) my dog is getting 225g of protein when the requirement for her size is 90.75


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

begemot said:


> That's true about some dogs being too sensitive for constant changes. Would it be possible to mix kibbles in your storage container, if you wanted to? So each serving was the same mix of different foods?


im not sure why i would do that?








begemot said:


> My source says it has 42% protein. The top six ingredients are: Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Potato Starch, Turkey Meal, Whitefish Meal, Salmon Meal


what source is this? look directly at the blue buffalo site... this is what i did. my info was RIGHT from blue buffalo themselves....http://www.bluebuffalo.com/dog-food/wilderness-chicken i even had a typo... its not 36% protein, its 34%. im not sure where you got 42% from?


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

GreatDaneMom said:


> and based on your last post, i dont even know what doG for saken food youre talking about that youre believing the majority of protein is coming from meat?! there have been a number of foods spoken about.


For clarity, I have been talking about Hi-Tek this entire time. But I think I'm going to bow out now.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I do only grain free & Merrick's before grain line is good, also their five star entrée line is also pretty good, I fed them for a whole. C hey are a small local company based out of tx (where I live) was.dogfoodadvisor.com is a great place to start but be warned most of the grain inclusive foods are 4 star, guess they frown on them or something.

I am feeding natures variety instinct line with Stella & chewys raw & they love it! We're goof to try the chicken one next I think, as they have been on beef for a while.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

my girls are in love with their new food. i mix the food per meal so i know that they are getting the right ratios of each food for the meals. i had put the new food on the bottom and their old food on the top because i knew they arent picky enough to avoid the new food so it wasnt a big deal to mix it all together. chloe pushes the TOTW over on top and eats all the new food in a hurry before finishing her TOTW. i guess the girls agreed that i made a good choice


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

GreatDaneMom said:


> my girls are in love with their new food. i mix the food per meal so i know that they are getting the right ratios of each food for the meals. i had put the new food on the bottom and their old food on the top because i knew they arent picky enough to avoid the new food so it wasnt a big deal to mix it all together. chloe pushes the TOTW over on top and eats all the new food in a hurry before finishing her TOTW. i guess the girls agreed that i made a good choice


What is the new food?


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

back to basics


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Greatdanemom, which food did you finally deside on? I read your post & couldn't find where you mentioned it (if you don't want to say that's ok, I was just being curious  ).

Question & whoever wants to can respond to this, I am careful to feed a food that derives as much of its protien from meat as possible, but the guy at the place I buy my dog food from (a very knowledgeable guy by the way about nutrition) suggested if I was concerned (he sAid tho I shouldn't have too much to worry about with NVI) suggested Stella & Chewy's (or any of the brands they carried of freeze dried raw food, they were all equally good. They were just out of the matching meat protien in the others so I went with stella & chewy's) over reg canned food & should 'make up' for Any protien shortcomings in the kibble.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

see my above post. here is a link to the site http://www.backtobasicspetfood.com/


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Sorry, didn't see your last post til now lol. That food is great!! I think you made a great choice! Good job


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

its a bit more expensive, BUT my girls are worth it. AND the small bag had $3 off, and in the bag there was coupons for $5 and $8 off any size bag. and i printed out two $5 off any size bag coupons online.... so it works out lol


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

GreatDaneMom said:


> what source is this? look directly at the blue buffalo site... this is what i did. my info was RIGHT from blue buffalo themselves....http://www.bluebuffalo.com/dog-food/wilderness-chicken i even had a typo... its not 36% protein, its 34%. im not sure where you got 42% from?


They changed the formula.  I got the info from their website too, a year or two ago. I made a printout with a bunch of different foods and their ingredients and analysis, to take with me to the store and use when buying online. They changed the formula -- it didn't used to be called "Chicken Formula" either, it was just Wilderness, and the meat ingredients were different. I guess when they added the other Wilderness formulas, they decided to downgrade the original.

Thanks for the heads up. I guess it's past time that I went back and checked all the websites to update my info. I hope no other major formulas have changed.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

begemot said:


> They changed the formula.  I got the info from their website too, a year or two ago. I made a printout with a bunch of different foods and their ingredients and analysis, to take with me to the store and use when buying online. They changed the formula -- it didn't used to be called "Chicken Formula" either, it was just Wilderness, and the meat ingredients were different. I guess when they added the other Wilderness formulas, they decided to downgrade the original.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. I guess it's past time that I went back and checked all the websites to update my info. I hope no other major formulas have changed.


no problem. the dog food is an everchanging world there. this is why i dont keep info about foods on hand, i always wait until i need to know and look it up because i know im getting the most recent information for my clients.


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