# Can you give me ideal protein/fat/carb breakdown for my dog's diet?



## Diabolical_Dog (Oct 14, 2013)

As dog's don't require carbohydrates, most articles I've read indicate that a dog's diet should only consist of protein/fat. However, when I look up nutrient breakdowns for a dog's daily calories, I usually see 30% protein, 20% fat. They don't list what the other 50% consists of...and it could really only be carbs, so..? For my spayed, female, semi-active, 4-year-old golden retriever, what would the ideal nutrient breakdown be?

I tried an online calculator, and it says about 1300 calories/day for her. So what % of that should be proteins, fats, and carbs? As far as fats, could you be specific as far as how many saturated or regular?

I think this will make it much easier for me to plan out her diet. Thank you.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I don't have the ideal quantities of each...but you're always going to have carbs, even if you fed only meat. Carbs can be anything from sugars to starches. For dogs, starches need to be well cooked to be absorbed.

I feed a raw diet and my dogs get a few carbs along the way, sometimes as cooked starches (think leftover pasta). Carbs provide an instant source of energy. If 0 carbs are present then dogs have to convert protein into glucose for energy. That protein could otherwise go to building muscle. So if a few pieces of pasta or potato happens to cross their lips a few times each week I don't worry about it. However, I don't consciously provide carbs in my dogs' diets. 

With commercial dog foods, you hae to remember that even dry kibble has a moisture content to it. To compare apples to apples, you have to convert for dry matter basis...as if there was 0 water involved. There are plenty of websites that show you how to convert to dry matter basis.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Diabolical_Dog said:


> As dog's don't require carbohydrates, most articles I've read indicate that a dog's diet should only consist of protein/fat. However, when I look up nutrient breakdowns for a dog's daily calories, I usually see 30% protein, 20% fat. They don't list what the other 50% consists of...and it could really only be carbs, so..? For my spayed, female, semi-active, 4-year-old golden retriever, what would the ideal nutrient breakdown be?
> 
> I tried an online calculator, and it says about 1300 calories/day for her. So what % of that should be proteins, fats, and carbs? As far as fats, could you be specific as far as how many saturated or regular?
> 
> I think this will make it much easier for me to plan out her diet. Thank you.


A dry food with 30% protein and 20% fat will have about 28% - 30% calories from carbohydrates.

If you want more information look up "Modified Atwater" that will show you how to do the calculation.

As for carbohydrates, a new genetic study by a very good university in Sweden has shown that carbohydrates were a big part of the modern dogs evolution. What you are reading is from raw feeding websites with an unscientific agenda. 

Real scientists consider dog omnivores and have concluded from the genetic make-up that dogs evolved eating cooked food scavenged from early human settlements.

http://www.nature.com/news/dog-s-dinner-was-key-to-domestication-1.12280


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## Diabolical_Dog (Oct 14, 2013)

I appreciate all of the replies.

What do you think of this ratio:
30% protein (4 cal/g)
20% fat (9 cal/g)
50% carbs (4 cal/g)

For 1300cal/day, that would be:

98g protein
29g fat
162g carb

Once I get a good ratio worked out, I can start planning (like lean chicken for all of 98g protein, or fish for half daily fat and all of protein, etc. and mix things up day to day from there)


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Nobody can give you an ideal recommendation, because nobody knows. For dogs with a capital D or for your individual dog. But the good news is, there probably isn't such a thing as an absolute, objective ideal so as long as you are in a ball park and nothing is consistently completely excessive or completely omitted you should be good unless your dog has some individual quirk.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

A bit skimpy on protein for my liking. When I saw a 33 pound couch potato of a dog gain 15% of his weight in strong muscle moved from at 1 gram/pound to 2 gm/lb diet I was sold. I'd be moving to feeding 120 grams of protein and as much fat as your dog does well on. If she is pancreatitic then take it slow and easy with the fat, adding more protein and switching the diet.

The average dog needs that much protein and fat for good health. Some must have less and some need more like my guy. Carbohydrate sources provide valuable calories and some nutrients scarce in meat like folate, manganese and magnesium. You may need to supplement other minerals and vitamins using that much carbohydrate. If you feed fish and chicken you will need to add minerals and possibly some vitamins as well.


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## Diabolical_Dog (Oct 14, 2013)

Kathyy said:


> A bit skimpy on protein for my liking. When I saw a 33 pound couch potato of a dog gain 15% of his weight in strong muscle moved from at 1 gram/pound to 2 gm/lb diet I was sold. I'd be moving to feeding 120 grams of protein and as much fat as your dog does well on. If she is pancreatitic then take it slow and easy with the fat, adding more protein and switching the diet.
> 
> The average dog needs that much protein and fat for good health. Some must have less and some need more like my guy. Carbohydrate sources provide valuable calories and some nutrients scarce in meat like folate, manganese and magnesium. You may need to supplement other minerals and vitamins using that much carbohydrate. If you feed fish and chicken you will need to add minerals and possibly some vitamins as well.


Thank you for your reply. As far as being pancreatitic, I have given her greasy fast food hamburgers before (I wouldn't do this now!), and she was fine. Is pancreatitis a one time thing or can it build up over time? Assuming she can handle higher fat (I'll slowly add more to see), and doesn't show signs of any issues, could it still be gradually "adding up" to pancreatitis? And the protein thing I was worried about kidney issues. I myself consume 200+ g/day, even though recommended amount is 60g/day. I always thought as long as you drink enough water you'll be fine. The dog's water bowl is always filled. Will they instinctively drink enough? Basically, I am worried about:

Too much protein - kidneys
Too much fat - pancreatitis
Too many carbs - diabetes

I am sure I am not thinking about this the right way/too paranoid.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Your posts are giving the impression that her pancreas is in trouble since you are concerned with fat content. 

This is a very valuable site online to go through. Maybe reading it all, the health as well as the diet pages will give you a better idea on how to proceed. http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html 

I'd start out your fresh food journey by duplicating the sort of protein/fat/carb/fiber levels she is used to eating and go from there. Easy to do when working with simple foods and using a nutrition database of some sort. I am used to ND and know how to use it but am sure there are better ones out there.


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## Diabolical_Dog (Oct 14, 2013)

Kathyy said:


> Your posts are giving the impression that her pancreas is in trouble since you are concerned with fat content.
> 
> This is a very valuable site online to go through. Maybe reading it all, the health as well as the diet pages will give you a better idea on how to proceed. http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html
> 
> I'd start out your fresh food journey by duplicating the sort of protein/fat/carb/fiber levels she is used to eating and go from there. Easy to do when working with simple foods and using a nutrition database of some sort. I am used to ND and know how to use it but am sure there are better ones out there.


No, she has never had any pancreas issues, but I did have another dog die of diabetes. So, I tend to worry a lot with her as I have heard too much fat can lead to pancreas issues. Before I come up with a new plan for her, I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be doing something that could cause her harm. I am under the crazy notion that if I feed her a steak with 40g of fat in it she'll drop dead. Perhaps I am overreacting to what I've read online.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Pancreatitis doesn't kill quite that fast! A troubled pancreas may seem just fine on the usual low fat kibble and when a bonanza of fatty stuff comes the dog's way bam - a horrible attack. 

Keep her lean and fit with regular check ups and you may catch problems early on. Sassy needed blood work before a minor surgery when she was 13.5 years old and that caught her kidney problem. Nice that there was no panic and quick decisions to be make, just take her home and change her diet. 

I completely understand your concerns. Sassy had kidney disease so I am very careful with Max and Ginger's phosphorus intake. Phosphorus doesn't cause kidney disease but I am not a fan of overdoing it.


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