# Please help - Can't house train Shih Tzu, running out of options



## tempspace

We've had our Shih Tzu Olive since she was a baby for a little over one year now. Overall, she's an amazing dog and my wife and I both love her dearly. There's just one thing that is really getting under our skin.

House training our dog has been a great ordeal. Since we got her, she pees and sometimes poo's in the house somewhat frequently (once every 2-3 days). Previously, we also had issues with taking her out and her taking 30 minutes to go potty each time. We read some of Cesar's books and implemented some of the things he recommended, and they worked wonders, it was like night and day. We have worked through most of the issues we had with her, leaving us with just two: house training and carpet munching.

No matter what we do, nothing seems to help. We take her our multiple times a day, always around the same time and walk her for about 1-2 hours each day. We always take her out immediately if she's coming out of the crate. Our dog almost never goes to the door when she has to go. The only thing that does seem to help is if we gate her up into one section of the house. When we did that, we went two weeks without any accidents, but whenever we open up the house to her, she starts peeing. Keeping the gates up is not a solution that we can go with for a long period of time. When we don't put the gates up, we do our best to watch her, but it doesn't seem to matter if we do or not, it still happens. For instance, today, my wife was watching her and saw her pee, and my wife told her NO in a loud firm voice, told her she was a bad girl and put her in her crate. There is a favorite room, but we keep that one off limits most of the time, but she has gone in 10-15 different places in the house.

We've taken her to the vet so there's no UTI or anything like that.

Also, she just started tearing up and eating the carpet over the past couple months, which is new for her.

We really don't know what else to do at this point. We've already lost the deposit on this apartment because the dog has destroyed our carpet. We have ratty old furniture that really needs replacing but we can't because our dog just goes wherever she wants even though she knows she's not supposed to.

We really need help, we're at the end of our ropes and nothing we do seems to produce any lasting result for this issue.


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## Dogstar

First of all, you wre on the right track with the gates. Go back to that. Did you open the house up in SECTIONS- one room at a time, and supervise VERY carefully when she wasn't in the kitchen initially? The whole trick to houesbreaking (when you're dealing with an adult dog who has already learned that he CAN mark in the house) is to do it in tiny little steps and NEVER let her have an accident inside. If you CANNOT watch her when she's out, she needs to be crated or babygated into a room/exercise pen of some sort. You simply have got to make time to do this. It's the only way to make tihngs work. 

On carpet munching, it's pretty much the same issue. Provide appropriate toys and watch her closely- when you see her pick one up, praise her and make a fuss over her for interacting with it. When you see her nibbling on the carpet? Pick her up, say nothing, and put her in her crate. The trick is, again, to not give her access to the carpet when you're not right there (and watching) to correct her.

The carpet munching is kind of the same thing.


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## pamperedpups

Instead of just eliminating the gates all at once, have you tried putting the gates up to widen the area your dog is in gradually so she can learn to be successful at holding it in larger areas? Have you tried keeping the dog tethered to your person as you move about the house so it is easier to keep tabs on her? It definitely matters if you are watching or managing her or not so you can consistently set her up for success. Free time in the house here is for empty dogs or dogs being watched closely only. Are you cleaning up the accidents with an enzymatic pet stain and odor remover? 

I'm curious what your dog is supposed to learn from being yelled at and having her nose rubbed in her elimination before being put in her crate, and how is she to learn this? Wouldn't it make more sense to interrupt the behavior and quickly take the dog outside to finish immediately before coming in to clean up the mess? No yelling, or scruffing, or rubbing the dog's nose in anything is necessary. Praise your dog lavishly when she goes potty outside, and go rub YOUR nose in it when you forget to watch or manage her carefully. 

Your puppy is only doing what you're setting her up to do, and that goes for tearing up the carpet, too. How much mental stimulation besides the walks is she getting every day, and what else does she have to do besides play with the carpeting? In addition to something to do, it's likely that she's just looking for more attention from you and even negative attention will work. Dogstar gave some excellent advice.


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## tempspace

pamperedpups said:


> Instead of just eliminating the gates all at once, have you tried putting the gates up to widen the area your dog is in gradually so she can learn to be successful at holding it in larger areas? Have you tried keeping the dog tethered to your person as you move about the house so it is easier to keep tabs on her? It obviously DOES matter if you are watching her or not so you can consistently set her up for success. Free time in the house here is for empty dogs or dogs being watched closely only. Are you cleaning up the accidents with an enzymatic pet stain and odor remover?
> 
> I'm curious what your dog is supposed to learn from being yelled at and having her nose rubbed in her elimination before being put in her crate, and how is she to learn this? Wouldn't it make more sense to interrupt the behavior and quickly take the dog outside to finish immediately before coming in to clean up the mess? No yelling, or scruffing, or rubbing the dog's nose in anything is necessary. Praise your dog lavishly when she goes potty outside, and go rub YOUR nose in it when you forget to manage her carefully. Your puppy is only doing what you've taught her.


Hello, yes we are cleaning up after her with the right kind of cleaner, and she doesn't seem to like the same spot twice. We've rubbed her nose in it this time because we literally ran out of ideas, what you describe is exactly what we've done up until now. Obviously that isn't working so we tried a different track. We do praise her lavishly and give her treats when she goes outside. Also, I'd appreciate actual advice and help and not being made to feel like we're a monster because we tried something once, please keep your character judgements to yourself and don't make us feel like we're terrible people because we tried something you don't agree with.


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## RBark

First, the crate should never be a punishment.

Your dog sounds confused by what is asked of him. It potties, you yell no, and put it in the crate. Ok, you just told it what not to do. But you did not tell it what to do.

Watch the dog, and when it's about to pee, pick it up and take it outside. Stay outside until she pees. Yes, it may take a hour. But it happens eventually. When she pees outside, praise the hell out of her.

Pick up an enzyme cleaner. Pet stores have something called Nature's Miracle. At this point, you may need a blacklight. Or if you have a steam cleaner, steam clean your entire house and mix a little bit of enzyme cleaner with the water. Find EVERY pee stain, old and new, and scrub it with an enzyme cleaner. Regular cleaning stuff do not break down the pee smell. it may not smell like pee to you, but your dog's nose is thousands of times stronger.

Use her best treats, toy, whatever. raw steak? Pig ear? Raw bone? a certain treat? A session of fetch? Tug? What is her absolute favorite thing to do in the world. EVERY time she pees outside, do that with her. Don't let her have access to that toy except for those times she potties outside.

You are teaching her it's better to pee outside, this way. Right now you are only teaching her what not to do, instead of what she should be doing instead.




EDIT---- Crud, three posts in the time it took for me to make this. Now I'm just being repetitive. Carry on.


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## pamperedpups

I didn't pass any judgement on you, I asked a couple simple questions about what your puppy was supposed to learn from your actions and how? I cannot help how you feel as a result. If you'll reread my post you'll see that I did offer advice which yes, you had said you already tried in a way, but you admitted to not being consistent with following through on.


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## RawFedDogs

OK, looks like you are going to a lot of trouble teaching her not to pee & poop in the house but I didn't see anywere in your post where you are teaching her where she should pee & poop. Just taking her outside at random (to her) times obviously isn't doing the trick.

Here is what you do. Take her out of the crate and tether her to you with a leash or a length of closeline or something. The INSTANT she squats, no matter for what reason, tell her IN A CALM VOICE, "No, not here, lets go outside." At the same time you are picking her up and carrying her outside. Hopefully she is still peeing or pooping when you pick her up ... she will stop. When you get outside with her put her down and wait for her to finish. If it takes 10, 15, 20, or 30 minutes, wait outside with her until she pees or poops. The INSTANT she finishes, praise, praise, and then praise some more. If you have a treat with you even better.

Yelling and fussing and using "stern voice" impedes learning. You should use a calm voice when telling her not to pee there. You must keep her tethered to you so that she doesn't sneak off and potty somewhere in the house. Each time she potties in the house, it is being reinforced. You've got to keep her from it.

By not taking her outside, instead of teaching her not to potty in the house, you have taught her not to potty in front of humans.


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## tempspace

pamperedpups said:


> I didn't pass any judgement on you, I asked a couple simple questions about what your puppy was supposed to learn from your actions and how? I cannot help how you feel as a result. If you'll reread my post you'll see that I did offer advice which yes, you had said you already tried in a way, but you admitted to not being consistent with following through on.


You told me to go rub my nose in dog urine because we did that to her, how is that not judgemental? Either way, I'm not moving forward with this because it's not productive.


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## pamperedpups

Our dogs also have a mountain of toys and there are seven dogs to play with eachother all day long. We also take walks, and go to dog safe areas to let them run on a regular basis, but nothing tires them out as much as a good training session. I suggest you check out www.clickertraining.com and look into playing shaping games like 100 Thing To Do With A Box (or toy, dish, or whatever). Zoggy Zen is also a good one posted as a sticky here on the forum. Enrolling in a positive based training class would also be a good thing to do. Stuffing a Kong or hiding food bits around the house can keep your pup satisfied for times when you can't be working with her.

As for my quip about rubbing your nose in your dog's inappropriate messes, I obviously didn't mean it literally - I was simply trying to make a point about how unproductive that method is. See how it made you feel just reading about it? I wonder what your puppy thought.


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## tempspace

RawFedDogs said:


> OK, looks like you are going to a lot of trouble teaching her not to pee & poop in the house but I didn't see anywere in your post where you are teaching her where she should pee & poop. Just taking her outside at random (to her) times obviously isn't doing the trick.
> 
> Here is what you do. Take her out of the crate and tether her to you with a leash or a length of closeline or something. The INSTANT she squats, no matter for what reason, tell her IN A CALM VOICE, "No, not here, lets go outside." At the same time you are picking her up and carrying her outside. Hopefully she is still peeing or pooping when you pick her up ... she will stop. When you get outside with her put her down and wait for her to finish. If it takes 10, 15, 20, or 30 minutes, wait outside with her until she pees or poops. The INSTANT she finishes, praise, praise, and then praise some more. If you have a treat with you even better.
> 
> Yelling and fussing and using "stern voice" impedes learning. You should use a calm voice when telling her not to pee there. You must keep her tethered to you so that she doesn't sneak off and potty somewhere in the house. Each time she potties in the house, it is being reinforced. You've got to keep her from it.
> 
> By not taking her outside, instead of teaching her not to potty in the house, you have taught her not to potty in front of humans.



Every time we see her, we immediately pick her up and take her outside and she finishes up. Every time we take her out, she always pee's right away. We did this for over a month, and it didn't stop so we moved on to try something else (stern voice to distract her and let her know she's not supposed to.) Previously, we didn't say anything at all or in a usual voice we talk to her in, but that didn't produce any results either. What I describe is what we moved onto because all the things you've suggested did not work. I should have been more clear in my original message.



Dogstar said:


> First of all, you wre on the right track with the gates. Go back to that. Did you open the house up in SECTIONS- one room at a time, and supervise VERY carefully when she wasn't in the kitchen initially? The whole trick to houesbreaking (when you're dealing with an adult dog who has already learned that he CAN mark in the house) is to do it in tiny little steps and NEVER let her have an accident inside. If you CANNOT watch her when she's out, she needs to be crated or babygated into a room/exercise pen of some sort. You simply have got to make time to do this. It's the only way to make tihngs work.
> 
> On carpet munching, it's pretty much the same issue. Provide appropriate toys and watch her closely- when you see her pick one up, praise her and make a fuss over her for interacting with it. When you see her nibbling on the carpet? Pick her up, say nothing, and put her in her crate. The trick is, again, to not give her access to the carpet when you're not right there (and watching) to correct her.
> 
> The carpet munching is kind of the same thing.


Thank you very much for the advice, I guess we'll put the gates up and try again. Any recommendations for how long before we introduce another room into the mix?



pamperedpups said:


> As for my quip about rubbing your nose in your dog's inappropriate messes, I obviously didn't mean it literally - I was simply trying to make a point about how unproductive that method is. See how it made you feel just reading about it? I wonder what your puppy thought.


Fair enough, this won't go anywhere so let's just move on, thanks for your help.


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## Elana55

The one thing I do see you doing wrong is *"picking the dog up and taking her out."* She doesn't go to the door to ask because she is not going to the door and out on her own on a leash. 

This is why you tether her to you. When you catch her starting to go in the wrong place, you interrupt her and get her out.. KEEP HER MOVING SO SHE CANNOT SQUAT and go. Take her out the SAME DOOR every time you take her out to go.. but be sure she walks out the door herself! The trick is to never give her an opportunity to go bathroom where she isn't supposed to go. Prevention is truly 9/10ths of the cure.

RBark helped a lot with using her favorite thing in the whole wide world as the reward for peeing and pooping in the right place.. and ONLY using it for that one behavior. 

Another thought is that if you catch her in the act, never put her in the crate. She might actually get the idea that she is supposed to go IN the crate. 

As to rubbing her nose 9in her mess.. nah.. old school, doesn't work and can make the dog fear you. Glad you only did it once. 

As to my dog house training credentials.. just so you know.. in 27 years and after starting use of the crate and preventing problems.. I have house trained most of my dogs in less than a month. Accidents only happen if the dog is ill. Just thought you might want to know.


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## RBark

Not to imply you are incorrect, Elana, because clearly my experiences and yours would be different. I use the pick up and carry out method, gentle though I am (merits saying because I've seen some people do an all-out run and nabbing the dog without so much as stopping, carrying it out as though it was a football all the while crashing into everything on their way out. Not a very elegant sight, if I must be asked.)

Priscilla started going to the door within the week. It seems to me, personally, that the dogs would associate the door with going outside pretty much readily. My dogs have never been confused as to which door is the walk door, and which door is the potty door, that much I can tell you! 

But, your method works as well.


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## Elana55

Hi RBark! 

Small dogs tend to get picked up a lot. Walking them to the door to go out tends to be real important.. and the picking them up to take them out adds a layer of confusion. they get picked up to be cuddled, picked up to be put on the bed, picked up for a lot more than interrupting going to the bathroom in the wrong place. 

Prisc made the connection pretty fast I am guessing... but I am willing to bet she was not picked up a lot for other reasons like small dogs (typically) are. I am also willing to bet that she is now beyond the picking up size!


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## mom24/7

I don't know if I can help much but Max our shitzu was the hardest dog I have ever had to potty train! A friend of our also has a shitzu who is 9 mo. old and having some of the same problems. My best advice to you is use to baby gates and be consistent!! We thought that poor Max was always going to have to live in the kitchen and he was NEVER going to be able to run free in the house but finally he got it. 

I always used a timer to remeber to take him out because I have a bad habit of being busy and just forgetting and then it's my faught not his and he still hadn't learned anything. Also when he does go outside make sure that you make a HUGE deal out of it! I mean if you had seen us you would have thought Max had just learned to walk on water the way we carried on.

Good Luck!


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## Dogstar

I actually don't think that picking a small dog up to rush them out is necessarily a problem. The short little legs means it is a LOT furhter (relatively speaking) to the door.  

I'd introduce things VERY slowly- if she can go two weeks in the kitchen with no accidents, I'd then introduce ONE more room. If you use an exercise pen instead of a baby gate, it can be easier to increase area in small incriments - and they're sometimes easier to move than a gate. If she can go a month with two rooms, I'd add another, and so on. Make the increases REALLY slow. The longer she goes WITHOUT accidents, the more completely broken the habit will be. 

One other thing I would do is have ALL the carpet cleaned before you let her back out on any of it. Enzyme cleaners work ok, but there's nothing like actual steam cleaning. 

In the mean time, while you're working slowly? It doesn't mean that she's confined to the kitchen or anything- it just means that if you are not watching her VERY closely and taking her outside at the first sign of sniffing, circling, or anything like that- she needs to be in the kitchen. 

Learning to watch yoru dog closely while doing something else at the same time is a skill that takes time to learn. You CAN learn to do it, it just takes being able to divide your attention, but it takes practice. In the mean time, just don't have her out unless you really can devote your full attention to her. With two people in the house, that's not too bad. If you're hanging out and watching TV or doing something casual? Bring her out, but make sure you both know who is supposeed to be watching the dog.  If she manages to have an accident, it's not because she was being bad- she doesn't know better. It was because she wasn't supervised properly.


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