# long haired pug?



## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

is this legit?
http://cincinnati.ebayclassifieds.com/dogs-puppies/cincinnati/free-pug/?ad=2631361


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

No. That dog is part Brussells Griffon.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Xeph said:


> No. That dog is part Brussells Griffon.


I didn't think that it was, but I was just making sure.
Ew, i just googled the mix... its a designer breed called a "Brug." gross.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Looks like someone got scammed. He's a cutie though.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Looks like someone got scammed. He's a cutie though.


I groomed a dog about a month ago who looked a lot like this dog, she was cute! Looked like a pug with a terrier coat...


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Cute, but like others have said, definitley not pure bred.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

I would say this might be legit, as the long coat gene IS in Pugs, but to me this dog looks to also have the 'bearded' gene, which is dominant and doesn't exist in Pugs that I know of . . . so probably a mix.

As an aside, though, long coat is recessive to short, and Pugs and Pekes were mixed up to and through the early 1900s. This is why the recessive gene can still be found today. There were short coated Pekes as well.

This is from a Pug forum:

_"There is a coated factor in Pugs. A researcher from Michigan contacted me several years ago because she was studying coated breeds like Shepherds, Corgis and Akitas and she picked Pugs for her control since they always have short hair -- not. *She found the coated gene and contacted me.* Years ago a Pug litter came in to the hospital and I told them there must have been 2 sires since some looked normal and the others were Peke-like, but the owners insisted there could have only been 1 male. We got DNA for the MI study on 1 of the dogs and indeed it had the coated gene. I also sent her samples on a few of my guys who have longer hair than some but they all came back "normal"."_​
http://pugvillage.com/forum/t99318-5/#post1363886

If you read through the thread you will find the MJ (the long coated Pug that is the subject of the thread), has her AKC certificate and is from short coated parents that both carry the recessive long coated gene.

This is a video of MJ. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUPsY28fb70 

. . . and an early short coated Pekingese.










SOB


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

While it's possible, it's extremely rare, plus, the type of coat is completely different in this Pug, it's more of a wire hair, likely caused by a cross with a Brussel's Griffon or some type of terrier.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

The 'short-coated Pekes' were also called 'Hapa Dogs'. I have some pictures of them here. The dog in the ad's picture looks more rough coated, though. Wiry coats aren't in Peke lines that I know of, though short-coated Pekes are still born now and then.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't know, but he's scruffy! I love me a scruffy dog! If I lived closer, I may have a new dog! LOL


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

spanielorbust said:


> I would say this might be legit, as the long coat gene IS in Pugs, but to me this dog looks to also have the 'bearded' gene, which is dominant and doesn't exist in Pugs that I know of . . . so probably a mix.
> 
> As an aside, though, long coat is recessive to short, and Pugs and Pekes were mixed up to and through the early 1900s. This is why the recessive gene can still be found today. There were short coated Pekes as well.
> 
> ...


Here is another article that mentions "rough coated" pugs. http://chestofbooks.com/animals/dogs/British-Dog-Shows/The-Pug-Part-3.html


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Kuma's Mom and Pai, at first glance I hadn't noticed the wiry beard. The wire coat is dominant and this is most likely a cross. Altered my post before you posted but my computer is so darn slow today it took forever.

I still think its neat that Pugs can come with long coats though!

SOB


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

spanielorbust said:


> though, long coat is recessive to short,


How would you explain smooth Afghans then? or even smooth Salukis.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

animalcraker said:


> How would you explain smooth Afghans then? or even smooth Salukis.



I believe SOB meant in the breed being discussed (pugs). In long coated breeds the short coat would be the recessive gene.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Actually Carla, the short coated gene is common throughout all kinds of dogs and is a dominant gene in all breeds that have kept it. It has been identified as well as the long coated gene, and you can test for both. 

IF the pup comes from a long coat bred to a long coat, then the short coat comes from the uncommon occurance of a mutation. (l/l x l/l should only produce pups that are l/l - no other choice -, but occasionally one allele mutates and an L/l pup is produced).

Mutations are wonderful things and have given us the diversity we find in dogs that we have today.

There has been fanciers of this Afghans and Salukis looking into this. It seems once this mutation occurs the pup then passes on the short coat gene as dominant.

I should add that the short coat gene is not completely dominant. Often a heterozygous pup with and L/l combination will be shortcoated but small flarings give away the fact that it is carrying a long coat gene.

(The "L" allele represents short coat, and the "l" allele represents long. Alleles are always paired on a locus and inherited one from each parent, so on the "long coat" locus dogs can have L/L - short coat carrying short, L/l - short coat carrying long, or l/l - long coat carrying long.)

You can read about the Afghan (and Saluki) and occurances of short coat mutation at these links.

_"This information, as well as the record of an all smooth-coated litter produced in France, indicates that smooth coats are inherited through a dominant gene in the breed. Genetically, long coats are recessive to short coats in other breeds such as collies and Chihuahuas. *Mating two long-coated dogs together will produce 100 % long coats. However, a mutation of this gene from long-coat to smooth-coat is also known in salukis: in Finland there is an example of two feathered salukis having produced a smooth-coated puppy.* This is how smooth-coated Afghan puppies may be born out of long-coated parents. This mutation seems to happen regularly, but not very often, and does not cause any health problems, unlike the genes of hairless dogs." _​
http://www.kolumbus.fi/punapaula/eng-afg/gallery/smooth_afghans.htm

http://www.afghanen.nl/surpriseseng.htm










I have always favored smooth coats over long, and I find this smooth Afghan absolutely stunning (and his long coated sibling is no slouch either).

SOB


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

TY for the Clarification on that SOB, and I'd take that smooth coated Afgan in a HEARTBEAT! The only reason I've never considered getting an Afgan is the coat upkeep.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Thanks SOB. I haven't read your links yet but I will when I get back home from a dog show this evening. I do have another question, Do you think the Afghans and Salukis throwing smooth coats has any realation to the fact that they aren't fully covered in a long coat? (Saluki just has long feathering and Afghans have a short saddle on thier back) Are there any other long coat breeds that have been know to produce a smooth coat?


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

The differences in lengths and fluffiness between the members of one breed that are l/l and another that are l/l (a Cavalier compared to a Pekingese - both have the same genotype), or alternately those that are L/L (most Huskies for instance as compared to Pugs) intrigues me, but I haven't taken the time to really delve into what causes these differences, besides the usual explanation of "selection and modifiers".

So, I don't know. I suspect the reason Afghans and Salukis have been identified as having members that mutate is because their breeders have decided to admit to (and on occasion show off) their unexpected pups, and also because their modifiers might be different from other breeds - possibly setting up a situation for easier mutation.

I've not read of other breeds that have this going on, but then a lot of pups that aren't born to standard aren't bragged about by their breeders. I did read once of a full coated Pekingese line that through out a very short coated pup, but it still had flarings etc, so still considered a long coat by genotype - the modifiers in the line that create that very long and very heavy coat just didn't come through (or had changed) on this one pup for some reason.

The Panda Shepherd originator is another proven mutation, from what I remember.

Salukis are particularly interesting in a number of ways. Coat colors in Salukis are incredibly complex and there seem to be some alleles found in Salukis that have yet to be found outside the breed (possibly caused by other mutations).

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/SalukiColor.html

SOB


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

animalcraker said:


> Thanks SOB. I haven't read your links yet but I will when I get back home from a dog show this evening. I do have another question, Do you think the Afghans and Salukis throwing smooth coats has any realation to the fact that they aren't fully covered in a long coat? (Saluki just has long feathering and Afghans have a short saddle on thier back) Are there any other long coat breeds that have been know to produce a smooth coat?


Racing-bred Afghans have even less coat on their 'patterned' areas than the show lines. The hocks and pasterns were originally supposed to be short-haired as well as the saddle. Some good pictures of dogs from racing kennels are here and here. The very long coats in the modern show lines are basically overgrown furnishings. I've heard the two types of coat called the 'Desert Type' (shorter) and 'Mountain Type' (longer).


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## rayandjeff (Jul 16, 2010)

Hello All,

MJ, the long-haired pug referred to in thread #7 is ours. We love her so much!

I have met one other owner on Facebook. She is in Pittsburgh.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi and welcome to the forum. I know I'd love to see more pics!

SOB


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I realize his thread is old, but since it's resurfaced... 
They legit look like Ewoks. 
Jussayin.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Since this thread there has also been more information found out about the odd occurance of the 'recessive' short coat in the Afghan.

They actually don't have the same 'l' long coat allele as other breeds do. The alleles that cause their coat type, and the one predominantly found in Yorkshire and Silky Terriers are different than all the other breeds.

Same rules of inheritance obviously don't apply then, which has to make things very tricky for breeders involved in those breeds.



> This study shows that most of the highly variable canine coat types can be explained by the combined effects of as few as 3 gene mutations.
> Interestingly three breeds with very long coats, the Silky Terrier, the Yorkshire Terrier and the Afghan hound are the exception. These breeds do not show any difference to short coated breeds in FGF5 or its mutation, suggesting that other genes are involved in hair length.


http://sloughi.tripod.com/preserving/geneticscoatlengths.html

SOB


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

spanielorbust said:


> Since this thread there has also been more information found out about the odd occurance of the 'recessive' short coat in the Afghan.
> 
> They actually don't have the same 'l' long coat allele as other breeds do. The alleles that cause their coat type, and the one predominantly found in Yorkshire and Silky Terriers are different than all the other breeds.
> 
> ...


I know a smooth afghan, she is so cool.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Anyone know about coat genes in terriers and hounds? Sydney looks like a rat terrier/beagle mix, except that her fur (while still smooth) is much too long and thick. She has a bushy tail, too. Could be another breed in their, but it would kind of surprise me if there was. Is this coat type possible from her assumed mix?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

kafkabeetle said:


> Anyone know about coat genes in terriers and hounds? Sydney looks like a rat terrier/beagle mix, except that her fur (while still smooth) is much too long and thick. She has a bushy tail, too. Could be another breed in their, but it would kind of surprise me if there was. Is this coat type possible from her assumed mix?


Do you have a decent picture of how long and thick her hair is? Or can you compare it to another breed? 

The reason I ask is because while beagles are often assumed to have super short fur, and many do, they're nothing at all like as short/slick as a rat terrier. Jack is effectively bald. Some beagles have a super glossy, super tight, super short coat. Not all of them, though. Not by a long shot. Not the best picture, but look at the tail fur on this dog:








Having that kind of fur around/over the back of the neck and down toward the shoulders is also not uncommon. At all.


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## Kdub09 (Feb 7, 2020)

rayandjeff said:


> View attachment 20197
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> ...


 Hey, my dog is almost identical to yours!


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## Kdub09 (Feb 7, 2020)

rayandjeff said:


> View attachment 20197
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> ...


Hey, my dog is almost identical to yours.
Sorry, I’m new on this trying to work it out.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

This thread is 8 years old and the OP is long gone.


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