# german shepherd vs belgian sheepdog?



## neupane00 (Apr 10, 2008)

hey, what is the difference between german shepherd vs belgian sheepdog?

1. which one is more intelligent?
2. which one is more trainable (more intelligent doesnt necessarily mean more trainable)
3. which should be better suited to be a companion dog with another small breed dog? 
4. is beligan sheepdog really much smaller than german shepherd?


i looked both of these at http://www.breederretriever.com/easiest-dog-breeds-to-train.php


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

neupane00 said:


> hey, what is the difference between german shepherd vs belgian sheepdog?
> 
> 1. which one is more intelligent?
> 2. which one is more trainable (more intelligent doesnt necessarily mean more trainable)
> ...


Having had virtually no experience with belgians, I will say GSD's are NOT all easy to train. Some are softer, some are sharper, there is a ridiculous split in the breed with temperaments and drives that are so variable. 
I've never met a Beauceron, but I've heard they're not the most biddable dogs in the world. I was surprised to see they ranked above BC's and goldens.
I wonder why papillons are so far down the list?  They were both easier to train than my GSD and they make me look good as a trainer, even when I screw up royally <G>


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

They are both intelligent breeds, but the belgians can be much more intense and are STILL very much working dogs, where we see a lot of GSD's as pets that do just fine. 

Belgian shepherds and the malinois are very "sharp" dogs personality wise. A good friend and trainer of mine has two belgians, lovely dogs but very intense and with a true NEED to work. I would think a non working line GSD would be a better companion dog...but a lot depends on your small breed dog. All shepherds can be very prey driven...so finding the right ONE is very important.

The belgians can be somewhat smaller and are finer boned than the GSD but are certainly a "lot of dog".

Trainability is high in both breeds. But that doesn't mean it's easy. Smart dogs are a challenge and a half...if you are not prepared to provide lots of direction and training and WORK for either of these breeds, they are not for you.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Cracker said:


> They are both intelligent breeds, but the belgians can be much more intense and are STILL very much working dogs, where we see a lot of GSD's as pets that do just fine.
> 
> Belgian shepherds and the malinois are very "sharp" dogs personality wise. A good friend and trainer of mine has two belgians, lovely dogs but very intense and with a true NEED to work. I would think a non working line GSD would be a better companion dog...but a lot depends on your small breed dog. All shepherds can be very prey driven...so finding the right ONE is very important.
> 
> ...


As per usual, I'd have to echo what Cracker has said. 

Belgians, by and large, retain _much_ more of their working heritage - they are a more consistent and homogeneous breed than the GSD. 

Like most working breeds which have found increased popularity via the show ring (not to mention the proliferation of totally clueless byb's), there is a _huge _disparity in the temperament and working ability of GSD's. However, if you can pick a specific line of GSD in which you're interested, I'm certain there are those here who can do a much more accurate comparison, and give you specific answers to your questions.

As far as that list of _"Easiest Dog (Breeds) to Train"_, 
all I can say is, 
_"Hmmmmm?!?"_


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## Masterjedi688 (Apr 27, 2009)

Belgian Sheepdogs were used to strengthen the GSD lines. I saw a documentary a while back on purebred dogs. What was said about the GSD was quite revealing. Basically it was like a debate. Form vs Function. In the documentary many breeders were not happy with the American GSD. They have changed to much. Some are an emotional wreak, others cannot do the job they were bred to do, others are to aggressive, to many health problems etc... This was all due to the breeders who really dont care. Overseas in Germany the GSD are more heavier and dont have that sloping back which many feel causes hip dysplasia. In Germany FUNCTION is more valued then Form. GSD were bred for a purpose and that purpose in many GSD has all but disappeared. American breeders feel that German GSD are to heavy and cant perform whats expected of them and the German breeders say that the breeders in the USA focused to much on FORM. If you still want to get a GSD...Research, Research, Research. Ask questions, investigate and be careful. you want to end up with a sound, healthy(mentally, emotionally and physically) dog. Make sure the breeder can provide you with the medical histories of the parents, grandparents and great grandparents. go over each bloodline carefully and ask for references. A truely responsible, caring and professional breeder will be more then happy to provide you with all that you need. Good Luck with either the GSD or BSD.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Masterjedi688 said:


> Belgian Sheepdogs were used to strengthen the GSD lines. I saw a documentary a while back on purebred dogs. What was said about the GSD was quite revealing. Basically it was like a debate. Form vs Function. In the documentary many breeders were not happy with the American GSD. They have changed to much. Some are an emotional wreak, others cannot do the job they were bred to do, others are to aggressive, to many health problems etc... This was all due to the breeders who really dont care. * Overseas in Germany the GSD are more heavier and dont have that sloping back which many feel causes hip dysplasia. In Germany FUNCTION is more valued then Form. * GSD were bred for a purpose and that purpose in many GSD has all but disappeared. American breeders feel that German GSD are to heavy and cant perform whats expected of them and the German breeders say that the breeders in the USA focused to much on FORM. If you still want to get a GSD...Research, Research, Research. Ask questions, investigate and be careful. you want to end up with a sound, healthy(mentally, emotionally and physically) dog. Make sure the breeder can provide you with the medical histories of the parents, grandparents and great grandparents. go over each bloodline carefully and ask for references. A truely responsible, caring and professional breeder will be more then happy to provide you with all that you need. Good Luck with either the GSD or BSD.


just judging by this line it appears to me you have never seen a German Showline GSD, they not only have exagerated slope they also have a roached back. It's not a German vs. American thing it's more of a Showline vs. workingline thing.


To the OP
1. Both breeds are equally intelegent
2. both breeds are equally trainable with the right kind of trainer, the Belgians tend to be a bit sharper tho.
3. If you are able to give them all the training and excersize they need I know both can be a good companion.
4. yes Belgians are smaller (on average about 20-30 pounds smaller) and finer boned and their legs are longer in ratio to body.


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## Masterjedi688 (Apr 27, 2009)

Keechak said:


> just judging by this line it appears to me you have never seen a German Showline GSD, they not only have exagerated slope they also have a roached back. It's not a German vs. American thing it's more of a Showline vs. workingline thing.
> 
> 
> To the OP
> ...


I wasnt the one who said it was on a Documentary. I just repeated it. The Showline vs the working line GSD was also mentioned. And yes they do have roachbacks and exaggerated sloping backs.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*1. which one is more intelligent?*
Neither is more intelligent

*2. which one is more trainable (more intelligent doesnt necessarily mean more trainable)*
Depends on your definition of easy. In my experience, the Belgians are "Harder" to train because they're more reactive and tend towards being handler sensitive. They shut down more readily (The Groenendael and the Terv in particular, I've met many "hard" Malinois). The GSD is generally not a handler hard dog, and they do not have near the level of reactivity as the Belgians.

*3. which should be better suited to be a companion dog with another small breed dog?*
Neither. They can both have high prey drives and they need to be taught not to bother small things.

*4. is belgian sheepdog really much smaller than german shepherd?*
Yes! My GSD is usually 2-3 inches taller than the majority of Belgians (this includes males) and is ALWAYS heavier.

A woman I know has a two year old Belgian Terv and he weighs 56 pounds.

Strauss is (almost) 6 and weighs 86.5 pounds. 

Grizz (the Terv) will mature more, and may get a bit heavier, but 60 is likely to be his limit. Egan (11) weighs under 70, Flynn (5) weighs around 60. Egan and Flynn are also Tervs.

The Malinois males I know are between 65-70 pounds, but are often smaller.


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## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

I am thinking my dog is a mix of the 2.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

JessieLove09 said:


> I am thinking my dog is a mix of the 2.


your dogs head is already pretty round and stocky even for a GSD if it was a GSD Belgian cross his head would be narrower and pointyer.


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## BorderGal (Nov 29, 2008)

To me it's just a matter of preference (as with most people and breeds) but I prefer the Belgian. I've been lucky enough to have had several (all rescues), 2 I kept until they passed. My darling Lacee was found wandering the streets, emaciated and less than a year old, and brought to Rescue as a BCmix. She was Belgian through and through and the best dog and easiest to train ever. It took a year to get her back to health. She was loyal to a fault, took to agility like a champ and the best companion you could have to us and our fosters.
Shell was a Belgian boy who was not going to "champion out" and his handler beat him (like that's going to make a dog work stock or perform in the show ring!). He was picked up as a confiscate case and eventually came to us. He was an amazing guy who was also loyal an easy to train and the best dog ever.

Kai was turned in for "killing cats". The "owner" got her 7 year old daughter 2 cats so her daughter could experience "the miracle of birth" then she let the dogs out where the cat and kittens were. Her reason was "if dogs and cats can't get along then they should not be" (nice message to the kid) but she turned Kai in to be PTS and brings the kid along who says "Kai is a bad dog" (can't imagine how much that's going to cost us taxpayers in therapy). Kai lives with a Terv and 2 cats and he's fine, having never chased cats since because he has dog stuff to do!

I've worked with a number of GSD's also. I've seen and worked with some I loved, some I liked and some not. A friend got a GSD from Monks of New Skete and...again this is JUST MY OPINION...I would not give you 10 cents on the $2140 (including NY taxes and not including airfare, uphill both ways) for this dog and the puppies she produced. 

No matter I, or anyone else, prefers one breed over another, it's all about what is best for you and the dog breed of choice to coexist in the best situation for both!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Belgian....Terv?....Mali?....Groen?...Laki?

which belgian are you talking about...because from what ive seen there is enough of a difference between the four types to warrant a differentiation.

im fast falling in love with the Malinois as my fave herder. i had a Mali stay at my house for a while and it was absolutely hilarious watching her and my pit bull bounce up onto the couch, bounce over onto the chair, bounce down to the floor and do it all over again. They play fought like madwomen too. the noise was deafening. my pit would be repeated headbutting her and doing her little play challenge hooting noise and she would be going for my pit's front legs with this hysterically funny almost crabby sounding yowly noise. they broke my coffee table wrestling. she was definately a nipper though but very smart and very responsive to training games. and alert as heck to people passing by outside. someone would go by and she would rear up and stand on her hind legs to look out the window with this annoyed little "arrrowll" sound.

ive met some GSD too. they were A LOT calmer than this Mali. i think someone looking to choose between the GSD and the Malinois who wants a calmer, more stately sort of dog would do better with a GSD. Me? i like nutso crazy dogs so id pick a Mali over a GSD.

hope that helps.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Masterjedi688 said:


> I wasnt the one who said it [...] I just repeated it.


And thus we see the source of a great deal of misinformation and confusion neatly summed.


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## Independent George (Mar 26, 2009)

When it first aired, I loved the Pedigree Dogs Exposed documentary because I thought it would bring about some self-examination within the dog world regarding genetics and breeding practices. I hadn't counted on people who would see it and base all their opinions on dogs and breeding upon it without bothering to pick up a book and learn anything else on the subject. I still think it was a net positive, but the margin is diminishing.


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## UniquityBelgians (Apr 15, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Belgian....Terv?....Mali?....Groen?...Laki?
> which belgian are you talking about...because from what ive seen there is enough of a difference between the four types to warrant a differentiation.


Belgian "sheepdog" is a groenendael.

I grew up with GSDs, now I have (and breed) Belgians (specifically groens, though I have terv lines and will likely have tervs in a couple of years).

In my opinion, the GSD is much more intelligent than a Belgian. Belgians are faster to pick up things, because they are quick with their thinking and always on the go; Even if they don't want to please you (they can be very self rewarding), they learn fast and love to show off. However, I've never had one NEARLY as smart as any of my shepherds, and it saddens me, especially as a breeder. 
I've always found the Belgians more trainable... but, it depends on what you're asking for. I've just found Belgians more "involved," and quick to learn, which makes them easy to trick train, or do things like rally or agility. However, when it comes to thinking in a situation where the dog is in drive... good luck. Would much rather has a GSD in that situation. Drive control training can be frustrating, and one needs to build a strong relationship with their Belgian if they're going to expect it to listen to you when it really really wants something. For this reason can be very dangerous dogs, and if you don't have the time to train, or aren't into "containing" your dog, then don't get one. 
For being a companion dog for a small dog.. Again, really depends. I've found working line shepherds to have a great deal of prey drive; Belgians too, but I've rarely heard of a Belgian wanting to eat a small dog, as opposed to a working line GSD that might enjoy eating anything that "sounds" like prey. Depends on the dog and the lines involved.
Belgians are "lighter" than a GSD. They can be much taller -- the standard allows for up to 27.5 inches -- and that is just for show dogs! The working dogs can be much taller and heavier. The tallest I've seen in person is 28.5 inches, but I've heard of 30 inches (basically the size of a female great dane). However, GSDs have alot more bone, so they tend to be much heavier, even when they are the same height. 

GSDs and Belgians these days both have the typical "freakiness" associated with most herding breeds.. I've met more nice-tempered GSDs than nice Belgians, but I've met plenty of shy, fear aggressive, noise/environment sensitive, or just plain "freaky" dogs of both breeds. People breed poor temperaments as long as it's a pretty show dog; It's unfortunate but it happens in both breeds; Obviously happens much less in protection lines ( not nessecarily just "working" lines, as I know of bad temperaments from strictly herding lines).

In all honesty, if I could mix both breeds I'd be happiest. I miss my shepherds, but I won't get into a breed that is so far gone structurally (no matter what lines we're talking about). I do miss the amazing intelligence that these dogs have.


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## Maliraptor (Mar 6, 2009)

I've had both, and worked both, although Belgian Malinois not Sheepdog, and there ARE differences between the belgians.

1- IMO the Belgians are a bit smarter, although I've had a few super smart GSDs.

2- Belgians are more trainable. Of course this can work against you also, and they can learn things you never intended them to learn. Belgians are easier to reach, and more reactive than GSDs.

3- GSDs. Belgians are more reactive. But it depends on the individual dogs.

4- We have a 90-95# 28" Malinois here. Over standard for a GSD, as well as a Malinois. Size depends on your lines, although I doubt the Sheepdog has had the influx of other breeds like the Malinois has.

I have had GSDs that are more active and drivey than some Malinois. At the high end of the GSD working world, there is little difference in activity and drive between a GSD and a Malinois.

A friend of mine, that has a drivey little Female GSD (50# 23" btw) recently adopted a Malinois I was fostering. This was a drivey Mal, NVBK lines. His comments a month later were that there was little difference, except the Malinois was more responsive to him and listened to him better, and he felt liked him better. Just food for thought.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

hey dont shoot the noob lol.

im just getting into Belgians...still learning.


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