# My vet claims that Science Diet is superior to all other dog food brands...



## allenciox (Nov 1, 2011)

I am a first-time dog owner and just got a dog (Caspar) last Tuesday from the animal shelter. I ordered Buffalo Blue Wilderness Salmon from Amazon, but I just took Caspar to the vet yesterday for an initial checkup. The vet said that I should continue using Science Diet (the shelter gave me a free bag with the dog) and not use Buffalo Blue, as Science Diet is by far the best brand out there. I asked him why online it does not get good reviews and he said that is set up by all the other manufacturers because they are jealous of Science Diet. He also said that some of these other dog foods are too rich and will cause problems over the long run. 

Also, my girlfriend's daughter is a Vet Tech at another Vetinerarian and she claims also that Science Diet is by far the best dog food. 

Questions: 

1. Should I believe this? Based on what I know about food for humans (and I know human needs and dog needs are quite different) the ingredients label seems to give a clear boost to Blue Buffalo, or TOTW, or Instinct, or Wellness Core, than it does to Science Diet. But what do I know compared to a DVM?

2. My dog does not like the taste of Science Diet, he eats less than half of what he is supposed to have (he just nibbles a little bit when he is really hungry). I mixed some of the Blue Buffalo in a few days ago and he scarfed up the Blue Buffalo. 

3. Should I change Vets? Is this possibly a kickback that Science Diet provides?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Your average vet doesn't know any more about dog foods than the average pet owner. If you want good vet advice about foods, contact a veterinary nutritionist. And vets don't get a kickback from Science Diet (other than the usual markup if they sell it), but it's the food they're familiar with, because Hill's makes sure the vet students are aware of their brand from day 1. I wouldn't bother switching vets over this issue, unless he gets too pushy and obnoxious on the subject.

LOL, if my vet told me that I'd make him go through the ingredient list with me and explain each ingredient and why it's so superior. Like to see him explain some of that junk, or why some formulas don't have meat as the main ingredient. . .


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I have no problem with a vet that has Science Diet on the shelf.

I have more trouble with a vet that pushes it.

I could not go to vet who can say, with a straight face, that it is the best food out there. I would probably question everything else he tells me.

Are you quite certain your vet actually said that? Is it possible you misunderstood?


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

no you should not beleive it, vets are NOT trained in nutrition. a friend of mine actually recently started working at a vet clinic and she got curious about a "nutrition seminar" that was being offered to the vets and techs etc.. so she went..the "seminar" was a sales pitch for Medi-cal..she said not a single vet or tech questioned a single word the salsman said, not a single one so much as asked what was IN the food(nor the the salesman offer that info) they simpley drank up the sales pitch and chatted exitedly about what an amazing food it was and how badly they wanted in in stock to push on custamers. 

skip the SD, go with the blue buffalo wilderness!


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

allenciox said:


> I am a first-time dog owner and just got a dog (Caspar) last Tuesday from the animal shelter. I ordered Buffalo Blue Wilderness Salmon from Amazon, but I just took Caspar to the vet yesterday for an initial checkup. The vet said that I should continue using Science Diet (the shelter gave me a free bag with the dog) and not use Buffalo Blue, as Science Diet is by far the best brand out there. I asked him why online it does not get good reviews and he said that is set up by all the other manufacturers because they are jealous of Science Diet. He also said that some of these other dog foods are too rich and will cause problems over the long run.
> 
> Also, my girlfriend's daughter is a Vet Tech at another Vetinerarian and she claims also that Science Diet is by far the best dog food.
> 
> ...


Well, he's just flat out wrong that it's the best, but I might be able to shed some light on his concerns about other foods. Some dogs will show elevated liver enzymes on extremely high protein kibbles that they wouldn't on a raw food diet of the same protein content. This indicates to me that the problem is not so much too much protein, but too little water intake to properly process the protein. So too rich a diet can be harmful technically, but it's sort of indirect if you know what I mean. It's hotly debated whether high protein kibbles cause this so I can see why your vet might be concerned about it. I'd keep doing what you're doing if your dogs are doing fine. If it concerns you, though, you could always switch to a lower protein, grain free food, like some of the formulas of TOTW.

Anyway, I probably wouldn't change vets unless it became an issue of pestering you every visit or being rude. I personally don't think it reflects that much on them as a vet because the majority of vets don't have that much nutritional training anyway (neither do general doctors for people) and he's probably just been giving you his personal opinion when it comes to SD. 

I don't think most vets get kickbacks from SD but I do think they become fanboys of them sometimes because the same company makes veterinary diets that treat actual diseases. I assume they think because of that, all their products must be healthy, if that makes any sense.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

It's kinda like beer, and many good things...they're all best in moderation.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

There is no one 'perfect' food. There, I said it.

Think of it this way: The vet likely makes $20 a bag or so off the food. So, if 100 of his clients feed it and buy it from him, that's $2000 a month give or take without him doing much more than pushing the food. It's not about quality of food, it's money. 

In general doctors and vets don't know a lot about nutrition, I've seen it all the time. My sister was a dietary tech or something along those lines, went to school for 2 years. When I told her I didn't eat any dairy at one point, she said 'well then how do you get calcium?' - she had no clue that you could live without three glasses of milk a day, yet she was responsible for menus in a hospital setting??? I've also had people say their vet suggested beneful as a 'great food' and that their dog/cat is healthy when they're coffee tables that I can't find ribs on (but I can get that, my SIL screamed and told the vet off and made a huge scene when the vet suggested that their basketball on legs needed to trim down a bit - the cat was huge, couldn't groom her back anymore and broke the bbq from jumping on and off of it!!! not just a little pudgy). I know others who purchase all the expensive vet kibble and the new giant kibbles for dental care, for many vets it's a good business. 

Even doctors I've talked to often have no clue on things, like when I put my son on soymilk instead of cow's milk as a toddler - he'd never thought of doing that for anyone before, had never looked into it as an option. I brought him the carton the next time and he asked how it compared to cow's milk because he didn't know (it was the same other than lower in fat). 

Lana


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## Cyric (Jan 30, 2011)

If a vet has science diet on the shelf and is pushing it, well, you gotta think that it's about profits.

Sorry, I had to put it out there.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Cyric said:


> If a vet has science diet on the shelf and is pushing it, well, you gotta think that it's about profits.
> 
> Sorry, I had to put it out there.


You say that like it's a bad thing.

Anyone who is in business (and a vet practice is a business) who isn't interested in profits isn't going to be around long to look after our dogs.

Dog food manufacturers are profit-driven, too, whether we're taking about Purina, Hills or Taste of the Wild. They sell, we buy and, as consumers, we are responsible for doing our homework and making intelligent choices for the well-being of our dogs.

I wouldn't necessarily take a vets word about what to feed (at least one told me to feed Purina Dog Chow) and I'd be a tad cautious about trusting an Internet forum as my sole source of information.

But at least on a forum you can get a variety of opinions.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

allenciox said:


> 3. Should I change Vets? Is this possibly a kickback that Science Diet provides?


If you are otherwise satisfied with the vet keep him, and use your own knowledge and skills to choose a dog food. I don't think vets get a kickback, but many do receive a majority of their education on nutrition from Hills.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Science Diet was started to make animal feeds out of factory wastes. The company does many food trials and they know the food is adequate nutrition for most dogs but the protein, carbs and fats originally came from waste. Nowadays using grains like this is designed into the system so I don't think much actually comes from floor sweepings. A very good thing to use every single part of a grain rather than burn or bury but not particularly good for the long term health of the animals fed such things.


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## MismatchedMongrel (Nov 1, 2011)

Your vet is an idiot :3


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## allenciox (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the comments. Some notes about the conversation with the vet:

1. They have a huge display of Science Diet foods on their shelves. It was the only brand they had. 

2. There WERE other things that bothered me about the vet. I mentioned that my Dog had been neutered the day I got him from the animal shelter a week earlier, and he said he was sure he would be ok, but he didn't even look at the area until I asked him to. He also pitched particular heartworm, dog toothpaste, and flea medicines.

3. I specifically went through some of the ingredients that bothered me about Science Diet, for example, that corn was first, with corn gluten about fourth. He assured me that corn is actually an excellent food for dogs, that corn by itself has a lot of most of the nutrients including protein that dogs need. When I mentioned that other products had specific meats as the first ingredients, he advised me to take that with a grain of salt. He said that the meat content is actually higher in the Science Diet since the other products include moisture in their meat content, while Science Diet does not. He said it is very dangerous to try to understand what is in a product from the labels alone. He said it is also the quality of the meat in the products, and Science Diet uses only the best cuts. 

I am seriously thinking of changing vets.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 25, 2011)

allenciox said:


> Thanks everyone for the comments. Some notes about the conversation with the vet:
> 
> 1. They have a huge display of Science Diet foods on their shelves. It was the only brand they had.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, kind of sounds like this guy just wants to sell you stuff. He sounds more concerned about making himself money than he is about making sure your dog is healthy and getting what he needs. And all that "info" about the Science Diet? That's a load of bull!! Although he's right about it being tricky to understand exactly what is in the food based on the label. However, I don't think it's "dangerous"; all you need is to do a little research!  And you are absolutely right, you _should_ be concerned about corn being the first and fourth ingredient. Dogs need meat, not grain.


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## MafiaPrincess (Jul 1, 2009)

I left a vet clinic that tried to push SD on me. I'd already been a longtime forum member and had gotten informed on nutrition. He laughed at me for feeding wellness, said it was crap.. pushed SD specifically their high fibre one which at least at the time.. the number one ingredient was peanut hulls. They grabbed a bag and tried to make me buy it.. I was belittled and told I was ignorant. I took my business elsewhere. Sadly, it's not the only clinic I've found with similar food pushiness and attitude.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

MafiaPrincess said:


> I was belittled and told I was ignorant.


Well, duh! They go through an extra 4-5 years of school to become a vet, what could we simple pet owners possibly know that they don't?  (/sarcasm)

But, in all reality, vet school is hard and putting in extra time to teach yourself about nutrition is just something I don't think is advocated or achieved very well. I have never been to vet school, but that is the impression I get. It's just a topic not fully addressed. Hopefully, with such knowledge out there and pet owners arming themselves with more information about nutrition, it will push vet schools to come up with some new sort of curriculum regarding nutrition (here's hoping).

Until then, trust your gut (get it!) and do what you feel is best for your dog.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

I understand that vet school takes so long and there's not much time to go over and above what they teach about food while you're "in the trenches" of school, however, once you're in practice it would be nice to do a little research at least. Especially if customers start coming in with info. about foods other than SD. It would be nice if vets just did a little "reading and research" themselves. There are vets out there, though, that are more openminded. In fact, I just went to a specialist for one of my cats (nasal pharyngeal polyp) and he said she was a beauty and asked what I fed her. When I told him Weruva and Earthborn he said he had not heard of either of them BUT he immediately took his laptop and looked them up while I was standing there! He said he was always ready to find new foods to recommend to his clients! I was absolutely floored. I am now seeing a holistic vet for my pack (she referred me to the specialist) that actually recommends raw and carries NV in her clinic! My old vet had not even heard of Wellness and always recommended Eukanuba, Royal Canin, Purina and SD....the big 4, lol. Whenever I tried to explain why I fed other foods, they got a blank look on their face. Once, I even saw one of my dog's chart and there was a note in it that I fed something other than what they recommended...sorta like they were making sure they didn't get "blamed" if the food didn't work right or something hahaha!


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Nil said:


> But, in all reality, vet school is hard and putting in extra time to teach yourself about nutrition is just something I don't think is advocated or achieved very well. I have never been to vet school, but that is the impression I get. It's just a topic not fully addressed.


It's just as shocking (if not more!) to realize that the same thing happens in medical schools. Nutrition is not stressed, as the medical profession doesn't make money off good vs. bad food choices. Instead, they stress medication and surgery. I believe firmly that good nutrition can cure most of what ails us, but we need to seek out that knowledge before we can implement it in our own lives.

OP, your vet bought the marketing schemes of the bigger companies (like SD) that market their products in vet schools. Besides being gullible, he may be an ok vet. He might also be a bad vet. It's hard for us here to make that call. Keep in mind that you'll probably have to treat for fleas and heartworm (I'm sure you knew that), and it's never a bad idea to brush the dog's teeth. The vet should get a little credit for bringing up these things, as some owners are clueless. But most medications on the market are relatively effective, and the vet is probably just seeing dollar signs and pushing what he carries. 

One suggestion that I have for you (if you choose to stick with this vet) is to make sure that he's NOT profiting from the sales pitch. No matter what you feed, buy it elsewhere. Same goes for medication - it's cheaper online, anyway. With just a little knowledge of biology, you can probably take care of most minor problems yourself. Example: my dog came from a shelter and had ringworm, roundworms, tapeworms, and fleas. The roundworms were diagnosed by the vet (they only shed microscopic eggs in the feces), but I diagnosed and treated everything else myself. I've also implanted a microchip, diagnosed and successfully treated an early-stage UTI, a bee sting, and a small cut without the vet. I'm NOT advocating abandoning veterinary practices all together (I still do vaccines, yearly checkups, and anything major requiring the attention of a trained professional), but it's easy to freak out over little things and go to the vet when it's not really necessary.


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## Cyric (Jan 30, 2011)

RonE said:


> I wouldn't necessarily take a vets word about what to feed (at least one told me to feed Purina Dog Chow) and I'd be a tad cautious about trusting an Internet forum as my sole source of information.
> 
> But at least on a forum you can get a variety of opinions.


This I agree with 100%.

I truely believe there isn't the perfect end all be all of dog foods out there. A vet can suggest a particular brand all they want, but it's up to the owner to figure out, with the aid of the vet if needed, what the best for their pet is.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

I am not a big fan of the rx brands especially hills/ science diet. Yes they have grown from a small unknown company to a huge one that does research and sponsors many vet courses. 

However, there is a place for rx foods. Vets have so much to learn and they need to know the rx diets so they know what to recommend for whatever condition they are dealing with. They need to know the rationale behind the foods to be able to make a logical recommendation. And well, since diet is such a huge part of a dog's health, it's a.good thing that there are rx foods that one can feed if your dog has a certain illness or condition such as kidney failure or allergies. Thereby a reason why corn is in a urinary health food or a kidney diet- to adjust the urinary ph or to reduce the.protein in the food.

And vets so spend a lot of time and money to get to where.they are and have to learn about various species, not just one. I think that the rx companies can be 'sneaky' in terms of their marketing but rx foods do serve a purpose. And yes hills and other companies are part of some courses and their research is used, but if they are to use rx foods, should they not learn about the products they will prescribe and the research behind them? For example, hills z/d is for dogs with food allergies. Allergies are caused by.allergens....I hope I get this right but research says that the molecular size of antigens plays a role and z/e has hydrolyzed protein with a molecular size that is not considered allergenic. I don't think I explained that right. It there is a range of molecular size of protein which doesn't initiate the.allergic response and apparently the hydrolyzed protein in z/d has this molecular size. Is this the best solution? I don't know but for some dogs, there is no other option. It is possible that raw or homemade foods could also work but let's face it, some people are just not willing to do that. Nor are.some people willing to do their own research. But a lot of money has gone into the research behind rx foods so in an allopathic medical sense, these.foods are the solutions.

Having said that, vets are not trained much in nutrition; they learn the basics of how an animal processes nutrients. They know cats HD dogs are carnivores and cats are obligate carnivores. But consider they are trained in the traditional allopathic manner as our own doctors are. There are vets.who are board certified in nutrition. They seem to be well schooled in how the body processes nutrients and how a food will help support an animal with a particular condition. 

However I understand and agree with the op about how they push hills/science diet or other rx foods. For example, if you ask a vet about what maintenance or growth diet to feed, they will no doubt push hills or whatever rx food they sell. What makes me so frustrated is that they know nothing about the foods currently on the market. I cannot expect them to know about every single food out there not be aware of the trends and the difference between a grocery store brand and a brand marketed as premium at a pet food store. I hate the fact that if a client comes in and their dog has diarrhea the vet says they have to change the food to an rx diet forever. Or if a client wants to try a non-rx food for their dog's allergies they just shoot the idea down even of the client has done their research into the company, and the food. One vet told a client who fed Beneful to her dog that the rx food he was recommending had 'all the same things as Beneful' ....well, then I am NEVER feeding that food! How is that a good endorsement? I'oblige a vet to explain to me why hills p/d is better than Wellness puppy food. What makes powdered cellulose better than chicken? 

Vets do need to make money. The reality is they need to support their practice so part of their job is to recommend products such as toothpaste, food, whatever. It is a business much like human hospitals are. What is the main revenue generator for an animal hospital? Vaccines! The vet industry knows these vaccines last longer than a year but they need to make money. Vaccines are in some ways responsible for allergies as they initiate the activation of antibodies in the body. This activation makes the body more susceptible to allergens. I'm going on a tangent but my point is that while diet is a big part of treating our pets, it is but one source of revenue for vets.

I wouldn't change your vet if his diet recommendation is your only objection. You feed what you want. My dog had struvite crystals a while ago and was told to feed her c/d. Since I was feeding her raw at the tome, she said that if I wanted to feed natural I should feed canned as there are no preservatives. So silly me, feeds her c/d. The mounds of poop that came out of my 17lb dog was enough to challenge my brother's labs' output! And in doing my research, I found that diet doesn't do much for struvite crystals. So I put her back on raw and added water to increase her water intake. While a dog can have struvite crystals and be fine, my dog had none after a follow-up. A few months ago, her liver enzymes were elevated and I was told it could be bacterial contamination from her raw diet or she may have microvascular dysplasia. So i put her on a homecooked diet and her enzymes are normal. So it's six of one and half a dozen of another. Ultimately, the decision is up to you. I personally believe that diet is a huge.part of my dog's health, so it is my responsibility to do my own research. Your vet should be willing to collaborate with you to find the best.solution for your pet whether it's about diet or medication. Just wait until your vet tries to tell you how to train your dog! 

Sorry for the immensely long message. Just my opinion.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't think anyone was talking about the rx foods, flipgirl. Science Diet is not the same as Hill's Prescription. It's just a regular food, like anything else you can buy at PetCo.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I've had two vets tell me to feed Purina vet diets, I prefer to do my own research on nutrition and I don't feed anything sold at my vets. I did once and it helped prolong my little girls life.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Willowy said:


> I don't think anyone was talking about the rx foods, flipgirl. Science Diet is not the same as Hill's Prescription. It's just a regular food, like anything else you can buy at PetCo.


Yes I know, guessI just got a bit carried away. Still, the op's vet's limited knowledge of nutrition and of the market is influenced by his hills training. If someone is going to tell me q food is the best food to feed my dog, then he should be able to tell me why. Not because he was inundated with hills or science.diet marketing. If he or she had told the op " I only know about Science Diet or Hills" then ok. I also prefer to do my research, so if I tell my vet that I'm feeding this food, then if they object, I'd like to know the reasons why. My ramble about hills was to point out that the company does do a lot of research which is good for both medical and regular feeding. But as owners of pets, we make our decisions what to feed and I feel vets push hills or science diet ad nauseum. In my own experience, when I was feeding raw, I was told by a vet that the meat wasn't the same meat as my dog would be hunting in the wild (though it would be interesting.to see my little puffy white wolf hunting!) So if I wanted to feed natural, I should feed canned (c/d). I have never seen a wolf hunt down a can of food. 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't listen to your vet but if you think your vet is more concerned with his bottom line than your pet, I think you should consider doing your own research or a new.vet. Vets are a good source of knowledge in terms of how an animal's body processes food or its nutrients so I wouldn't dismiss them. However, I think their nutritional counseling could benefit from a general knowledge of foods currently on the market. A lot of pet owners are thinking outside the box, as one can see on this forum. So it would only benefit the op if her vet thought outside the box too.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Hearing things like this make me love my vets even more, not only do they not disagree with my feeding raw, one of them is actually a raw feeder herself. They also now have a freezer in the office with raw food in it, and they also sell Orijen and Acana. I love going to the vet (not that I have to very often).


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## Dingeryote (Jun 20, 2011)

Vets get more training on trimming nails than they do Nutrition.
Nutrition is a specialty. Your Vet might have done some extra study in nutrition and likely has good intentions, but unless he is a nutritionist he has no ethical grounds to be making statements such as "Best". Red Flag.

If your Mechanic was pushing his house brand of tires as the best, it's one thing. He's not bound by an oath of ethics or adherence to the scientific process.
Vets are not mechanics, and we trust them not to lower themselves to such standards.

Honestly, I'd find another vet, or at least get a second opinion on any call he makes for anything that will cost$$$.

We are spoiled with good country Vets here. Only one pushes thier feeds, and they are not real popular for it, and other shortcomings.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

allenciox said:


> He said that the meat content is actually higher in the Science Diet since the other products include moisture in their meat content, while Science Diet does not. He said it is very dangerous to try to understand what is in a product from the labels alone. He said it is also the quality of the meat in the products, and Science Diet uses only the best cuts.
> 
> I am seriously thinking of changing vets.



I think he needs to take another look at the ingredient list of his beloved brand... The best cuts of meat? Science Diet® Adult Healthy Mobility™ contains chicken by-product meal and animal fat as its only meat source. Most, if not all only use by-products as their main or only meat source.... As far as I know, by-product aren't the "best cuts" unless that's what he considers the most tasty and delicious part of the chicken.

I would personally be searching for another vet.


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## trace412 (Nov 16, 2011)

My lil guy didn't want ANYTHING to do with Science Diet when I tried feeding it to him. I started him on Blue Buffalo but then he stopped eating it and that's when I tried different flavors and then onto different brands.


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## storysunfolding (Aug 26, 2008)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> It's just as shocking (if not more!) to realize that the same thing happens in medical schools. Nutrition is not stressed, as the medical profession doesn't make money off good vs. bad food choices. Instead, they stress medication and surgery.


That's an unfair and inaccurate comment. Drugs and surgeries are not the stress and in many cases a short term solution to either stop a problem or lower an issue until a lifestyle change can be effective. In regards to nutrition in medical school you have to understand the system.

Most medical training occurs during residency. It's a 3-7 year process a doctor has to go through after medical school to learn their field of medicine. This is where a doctor is going to learn nutrition if it applies to them. For instance an orthopedic surgeon has little need for detailed nutrition advice since he will recommend that person see a specialist. He spends his time keeping up on the techniques, research and equipment that he is required to know to perform one of a thousand different surgical variations.

Medical school itself just builds the foundations. Classroom learning is relegated to the first two years with another two years of rotations through different areas of practice to determine where the doctor will be most effective. It doesn't make sense to pack a class full of nutrition when less than a quarter of the class would benefit from it. Unfortunately, family practitioners are some of the least paid doctors in the field, which makes their job one of the least competitive. Relatively, because it's really hard to say this of someone that gave up 13 years of their life to school after college, that's where you find the slackers. At the same time many Family Practitioners learn nutrition because it makes their patients lives better, others form the bad cases that populate negative reviews and stereotypes.

I'm not sure how that works in relation to Vet school given that they tend to be generalists but the acrimony against the medical field is baseless given the format of their training. People need to be responsible for their own nutrition, and since dogs can't do the same, their people need to be responsible for how it effects them. 

I am all for the idea of "buyer beware" and I love the information this forum gives out on foods. I agree that just because someone has a degree, does not necessarily make them credible. All sources should be vetted using the best tools at your disposal. At the same time, I think particular people become food zealots and will rebel against you regardless of you choice. Ignore them, excise them or move on.

As long as the food leads to a good quality of life for your dog, you are doing the right thing. Do you original research, see what your dog likes, schedule the occasional reassessment (maybe yearly for other products or for change in lifestyle), and keep an eye out for recalls. Before I decided that Bada enjoyed and seemed to do the best on the Kirkland food, I was criticized for feeding TOTW instead of Wellness, Iams, SD, Blue Buffalo, raw etc. I still get those comments from time to time at Costco. I'm sure Bada would like them all, but from a cost/benefit perspective- she's loving the Kirkland food.


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## storysunfolding (Aug 26, 2008)

trace412 said:


> My lil guy didn't want ANYTHING to do with Science Diet when I tried feeding it to him. I started him on Blue Buffalo but then he stopped eating it and that's when I tried different flavors and then onto different brands.


Mine did the same thing at first. I started switching through brands until I realized she just wanted something novel- so I stuck with a brand and when she got adverse I added in some yogurt. Worked like a charm. In the end, the puppy will eat.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> It's just as shocking (if not more!) to realize that the same thing happens in medical schools. Nutrition is not stressed, as the medical profession doesn't make money off good vs. bad food choices. Instead, they stress medication and surgery. I believe firmly that good nutrition can cure most of what ails us, but we need to seek out that knowledge before we can implement it in our own lives.


Actually, I agree, though I think that nutrition is just part of the formula. There are lots of lifestyle choices that affect our well-being and, until we start to recognize that as consumers, the health care industry - especially in the U.S. - will continue toward meltdown.

I don't blame the doctors or medical schools though. We're the ones that demand that little purple pill to mask our heartburn instead of laying off the foods that cause it.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Kathyy said:


> Science Diet was started to make animal feeds out of factory wastes. The company does many food trials and they know the food is adequate nutrition for most dogs but the protein, carbs and fats originally came from waste. Nowadays using grains like this is designed into the system so I don't think much actually comes from floor sweepings. A very good thing to use every single part of a grain rather than burn or bury but not particularly good for the long term health of the animals fed such things.


That is not true. Science diet was started by a vet when dogs continued to get sick with pancreatitis because their dog food was making it worse. It's funny people think this because Science diet, at the time it was created, was the best you could get. All of the other dog foods literally were made out of junk, dog foods back then provided as much nutrient as a cardboard box. Science diet was one of the first to provide what a dog actually needs, and they were the first to provide specialized nutrition to prolong the lives of dogs with kidney disease.\

Also, I think the judging of vets based on the food they recommend is absolutely ridiculous. Vet's do not get anything from selling science diet products, nothing more than they do when they sell a box of heartguard. As far as their medical training goes, one should not judge without having first hand knowledge. First of all, the only clinical nutrition book used got the majority of it's information from science diet testing and feeding trials. It is NOT a marketing thing. Hill's caters to the medical needs of dogs. Their research and wealth of knowledge is unmatched. They are the ones who discovered a diet to prolong the life of a dog with advanced kidney failure. Not prolong by a few weeks, but months and maybe even years. This is incredible. No other dog food company has this kind of extensive research. Hill's recently signed a partnership with a human colon cancer oncology research group, why would a human oncology research group waste precious time and money to partner with a dog food company? Because Science diet pioneered their way through nutrigenomics, now they can use nutrition to turn genes on and off. This is absolutely incredible and extremely important knowledge for cancer research. Anyways, this goes to show you should not be so quick to judge. Science diet surpasses most other dog food companies just because of the incredible amount of time and energy they have invested.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Here is the time line from the company's website. They were making food before the prescription food. I know I have read the sort of food they were making but cannot find it at the moment.
http://www.petdental.com/hillspet/ourCompany/heritage/HillsTimeline.hjsp?JSESSIONID=NwT4yhZ58raM73jFoQgUKD0VH0URRRmCajAL5f6kYPgoXCCjG2Y1!961058292!167846924!7005!8005&CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673443855&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=9852723696949376&bmUID=1295029240656&bmLocale=en_CA

I know Hill's has done great work in nutrition. I also think they could do far better formulating their foods. I fed Sassy after her kidney disease diagnosis for 3.25 years with home cooked food that cost less, had more protein and less phosphorus than the Hill's food. I am quite sure she would have only survived a year or so if fed Hill's as it is unappetizing and she needed to eat a ridiculous amount to maintain weight, she did eat a script food for 2 months. I used fresh chicken and special low phosphorus rice for the most part, K/D is brewer's rice, pork fat and egg product. Egg is high phosphorus! Their foods are better than staying on commercial food if no other treatments are used but I know people with kidney dogs that stay on regular kibble and just do subcutaneous fluids and other therapies and the dog is happy and doing fine.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Just a caveat to your post Kathyy .... egg white bas little phosphorus but high protein so technically, you could feed egg whites and add it to food to dilute the phosphorus. But as for the.egg.product in SD foods, who knows.


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