# Off leash Malamutes?! Hide the children! Run for the hills!



## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Beautiful day for photography!



















My rabbit poop senses are tingling...


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Watching some birds fly around.... when animals come into sight, it's always tense. But he hasn't given chase so far.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

His tail, as always, makes me laugh.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)




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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU_th8cwajk

I know in some of the pictures, Kobe doesn't have a collar on. Early in the hike I wasn't thinking and popped it off. Once I realized (after taking a picture of him and noticing the lack of collar) I put it back on.

That said, this is his first hike without an e-collar. I made the decision to do so because we had been making a lot of breakthroughs in his training lately. His recall has been 100% since I started the e-collar training (Though, the e-collar only gave a foundation. The other 75% was R+ training)

The breakthrough we made is that while his off leash heeling was okay (not to a competitive standard, but okay for my purposes). If I let him out and allowed him to free run, he would have good recall. But if he is sniffing something on the ground, or stopping to listen to something, and I get within arm's reach of him, he will bolt ahead or to the side to stay out of my arm's reach.

Obviously something he was conditioned to do because of the times before he had recall. He'd escape out of the house, and in chasing him down, I'd grab him and the fun would be over. I never punish any of my dogs for running away, but I often leave so fast that I don't have time to pick up a leash. As such, I have to drag them back or carry them over my shoulders.

So because of that less than desirable result Kobe would dance around me and stay out of reach. For a long time when I approach him, I would instead of passing him, turn to make a large radius arc around him so he would stay in place.

Eventually I made the radius smaller and smaller until I could pass by him, and I'd treat him as I passed by. Then I made reaching motions as I passed by, until I could pet him as I move by him. Now he doesn't care if I am near him while he's off leash. So I decided to move on and do it without the e-collar (he never had a chance to become collar smart)

Today went well in that regard.


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## Leroy&Lucy'sMom (Mar 2, 2009)

Wow, breathtaking scenery and lovely weather. I am green with envy. He's having a blast! So handsome <3
Great job with the off leash work.


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

That is so awesome Rbark... congrats on the Ecollar training and it being a great success! Callahan and Jade are both undergoing Ecollar training right now and it is phenomenal. Hopefully by this summer we'll be out at the beach, all of us... not just Callahan, Jade will be out there too and I will have 100% reliability on the recall. Something I did not have before. 

Kobe is so stunning... and your area to hike is just so beautiful! Looks like he's done so great with it. How long into training with the Ecollar are you? We've only just begun, this is our 3rd day and already things are going great. 
Congrats R! You all make a great team <3
Nessa


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

Gorgeous pics RBark!! Where do you live? I'd kill for some green right now


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Hmph, that is only half an off-leash malamute. False advertising!


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Gorgeous photos - thanks for sharing!


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

chul3l3ies1126 said:


> That is so awesome Rbark... congrats on the Ecollar training and it being a great success! Callahan and Jade are both undergoing Ecollar training right now and it is phenomenal. Hopefully by this summer we'll be out at the beach, all of us... not just Callahan, Jade will be out there too and I will have 100% reliability on the recall. Something I did not have before.
> 
> Kobe is so stunning... and your area to hike is just so beautiful! Looks like he's done so great with it. How long into training with the Ecollar are you? We've only just begun, this is our 3rd day and already things are going great.
> Congrats R! You all make a great team <3
> Nessa


Hrm, I don't know how long he has been on e-collar training..

I think I started e-collar training in Fall 2008 or Winter 2009. I don't think Kobe was off leash in an unfenced area until the start of Summer 2009. Before that I was still using 50' or 100' leashes. He is, however, a Malamute obviously. I imagine it wouldn't take as long with your dogs. Kobe can, and has, been nearly 20 miles away from me in just over two hours. (I can dig up the story, I posted about it here once). A lot of dogs have terrible recall, but most of them don't stray too far from their owners intentionally. I imagine your dogs are that way.

So I was very slow, and used the e-collar very lightly. I also use Negative Reinforcement, not the normally used Positive Punishment. Just fits my training style better.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

MoosMom said:


> Gorgeous pics RBark!! Where do you live? I'd kill for some green right now


Bay Area CA. It's not green like this most of the year. It's only green maybe one month of the year. The rest it's dead and yellow.



Shaina said:


> Hmph, that is only half an off-leash malamute. False advertising!


Good thing for my money back guarantee! *gives nothing back*


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Where abouts at the Bay?? I LOVE the Bay area. A close friend of mine used to live in Fremont and I'd take the opportunity to visit several times a year but she has since moved to Hawaii.  I MISS San Francisco!

AMAZING photos, by the way. I like how the yellow flowers contrast with Kobe's fur colour. And the view is just stunning!


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

RBark said:


> Hrm, I don't know how long he has been on e-collar training..
> 
> I think I started e-collar training in Fall 2008 or Winter 2009. I don't think Kobe was off leash in an unfenced area until the start of Summer 2009. Before that I was still using 50' or 100' leashes. He is, however, a Malamute obviously. I imagine it wouldn't take as long with your dogs. Kobe can, and has, been nearly 20 miles away from me in just over two hours. (I can dig up the story, I posted about it here once). A lot of dogs have terrible recall, but most of them don't stray too far from their owners intentionally. I imagine your dogs are that way.
> 
> So I was very slow, and used the e-collar very lightly. I also use Negative Reinforcement, not the normally used Positive Punishment. Just fits my training style better.


That's all very interesting R. And yes you are right... my dogs do not ever stray far, they have never run out of my yard and always eventually come back to me when I call them, just not right away the way I would like. 
That is great that you have trained him so well now, because phew I cannot imagine having a dog run that far away from me and not listen. 

I think it is great he has an owner like you that is open minded to different training styles, alot of owners would just give up on taking their dog out like that. The dog would end up just being confined to a yard and staying home all the time. You've done awesome R. 

PM being sent.
Nessa


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

lucidity said:


> Where abouts at the Bay?? I LOVE the Bay area. A close friend of mine used to live in Fremont and I'd take the opportunity to visit several times a year but she has since moved to Hawaii.  I MISS San Francisco!
> 
> AMAZING photos, by the way. I like how the yellow flowers contrast with Kobe's fur colour. And the view is just stunning!


I live 30 miles north of Fremont, and 60 miles east of San Francisco. Honestly, I'm not fond of the Bay Area. It's overpriced, the summers are too hot, the winters are too warm, the springs put my allergies into overdrive, and the falls are wet. It's busy here, there's tons of people, tons of cars, tons of traffic. Most open space is crowded by tons of houses, shopping centers, etc. San Francisco is the very definition of humanity's vomit over what was once a beautiful island. Nothing but concrete and stone everywhere.

A lot of people like the warmer weather, I guess, but it's not my preference. I like rocky mountains, snow, cool summers. I prefer lakes and rivers over oceans. I like having green plants all spring and most of the summer (everything's dead here during most of spring/summer). I like quiet areas, lots of nature, lots of open space. So I can see why a lot of people like the bay area, but it's not for me.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

IT's so beautiful around your area! I'd love to live there and let Nia play in the fields off leash! Kobe is so beautiful!

We have a malamute around here that's always off leash and has 100% recall as well. The owners just leave him outside to sunbathe while they're washing the car and stuff and then just get him 2 hours afterwards and he faithfully just lies there. No one and nothing can make him leave! Same with his heel.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Stunning scenery! And congrats on ditching the e-collar, woo hoo!


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## Elisabeth (Jan 26, 2010)

Wow... I kinda hate you right now... living in a place like that.... okay so I don't hate you, but I am SUPER JEALOUS of you!

STUNNING!!!

ABSOLUTELY STUNNING!!!


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

RBark said:


> I live 30 miles north of Fremont, and 60 miles east of San Francisco. Honestly, I'm not fond of the Bay Area. It's overpriced, the summers are too hot, the winters are too warm, the springs put my allergies into overdrive, and the falls are wet. It's busy here, there's tons of people, tons of cars, tons of traffic. Most open space is crowded by tons of houses, shopping centers, etc. San Francisco is the very definition of humanity's vomit over what was once a beautiful island. Nothing but concrete and stone everywhere.
> 
> A lot of people like the warmer weather, I guess, but it's not my preference. I like rocky mountains, snow, cool summers. I prefer lakes and rivers over oceans. I like having green plants all spring and most of the summer (everything's dead here during most of spring/summer). I like quiet areas, lots of nature, lots of open space. So I can see why a lot of people like the bay area, but it's not for me.


Lol, I agree that it's overpriced, but I think it's worse up here in Vancouver. We constantly rate as one of the most overpriced real estate markets in the world... It sounds like you really hate living in cities! I love the buildings and townhomes in San Francisco. In fact, the townhomes are what I love most... aside from the warm winters! I'm not a fan of the fog at all, though.

Your criteria for "home" really sound like the great plains. For some reason, I find flat space really boring. I had a road trip with my friends to Calgary and Edmonton a couple of years back and I hated how it was just flat grassy land for miles and miles.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

lucidity said:


> Lol, I agree that it's overpriced, but I think it's worse up here in Vancouver. We constantly rate as one of the most overpriced real estate markets in the world... It sounds like you really hate living in cities! I love the buildings and townhomes in San Francisco. In fact, the townhomes are what I love most... aside from the warm winters! I'm not a fan of the fog at all, though.
> 
> Your criteria for "home" really sound like the great plains. For some reason, I find flat space really boring. I had a road trip with my friends to Calgary and Edmonton a couple of years back and I hated how it was just flat grassy land for miles and miles.


Not the grassy plains. My ideal locations are near the rocky mountains of Colorado, the NorthEast USA (Mass, Vermont, etc), and Alaska.

I dont know about worse or better in terms of cost, but the minimum and maximum value of homes look just about identical. Homes in middle-class areas are 750,000 to 1,250,000 dollars. Homes in the worse areas of the Bay are around 300-600. The wealthy areas of the Bay can go up to the ten millions.

A quick google on Vancouver showed the prices are about the same.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

RBark said:


>


This one reminds me of that show "Pushing Daisies," everything was over saturated and awesome!


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## Blizzard (Jan 18, 2009)

Wow, those pics are stunning! I can't beleive it's actually winter there.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

RBark said:


> Hrm, I don't know how long he has been on e-collar training..
> 
> I think I started e-collar training in Fall 2008 or Winter 2009. I don't think Kobe was off leash in an unfenced area until the start of Summer 2009. Before that I was still using 50' or 100' leashes. He is, however, a Malamute obviously.
> 
> ...


Good job on dreaming the impossible dream (an off-leash Malamute). This further reinforces my contention that virtually any dog can be reliably trained for the basics. 

The breed differences matter, though. My retriever was born to be by a human's side. It's printed right there on his DNA. I had 100% *functional* recall using only R+. He'd get a little hard of hearing beyond 300 yards, but still good. For the most part, he always wanted to know where I was. I used the e-collar to tighten that up to dead-reliable.

Even with an e-collar, YOU STILL HAVE TO TRAIN THE DOG.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Marsh Muppet said:


> Good job on dreaming the impossible dream (an off-leash Malamute). This further reinforces my contention that virtually any dog can be reliably trained for the basics.
> 
> The breed differences matter, though. My retriever was born to be by a human's side. It's printed right there on his DNA. I had 100% *functional* recall using only R+. He'd get a little hard of hearing beyond 300 yards, but still good. For the most part, he always wanted to know where I was. I used the e-collar to tighten that up to dead-reliable.
> 
> Even with an e-collar, YOU STILL HAVE TO TRAIN THE DOG.


I responded to your post in this:

http://www.dogforums.com/3-dog-training-forum/69307-ethics-dog-training.html#post724219

Brace yourself though, it was long and may not be a worthwhile read.


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