# Won't stop biting & bites are getting harder!



## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hello all. We're the proud new parents of our white GSD Lily. We love her more than anything and she is such a great addition to the family. She just turned 4 months old and is a little bundle of joy to have in the house. We got her at 8 weeks old. She is not the first dog, we had a maltese for 13 years during my childhood and we took care of my brother's Siberian Husky for 1 year while he was deployed. The difference here is that the GSD is the first dog I've raised from a puppy. The maltese and husky were already well trained from their previous owners, they were both re-homed with us. 

Lily is doing great with all of her tricks and training. I would give her an A to A+ on her recalls, sit, lie down, stay, roll over, shake, other paw shake, high five, high ten. She's understands "wait" for not taking the treat until I say okay. She does ok with the "drop it" command when we're playing tug of war and does the "leave it" command about 1/2 the time. We're almost there with the house training and she does great on the leash. 

The only area where we are having a lot of trouble with is with the biting/nipping/mouthing. Lately she has been mouthing and biting harder than before and I now have about 10 little puncture marks and little scratches that have drew a little blood. 

When she bites and we say "no biting" she just gets more excited and bites even harder and in more places. The "no bite" command has become a trigger word for her that she is going to play this game where she gets negative attention. She actually eggs me on by running up to me biting me, then running back a few steps so I can catch her. Here's what we've tried doing with her so far with no success. 

8-12 weeks
The yelping and ignore method. When we would yelp and turn our backs she would just start biting our shirt or our feet/ankles. This never really had any effect on the biting. Then tried giving her a bop on the muzzle or holding her down by her neck like her mom would do. 

12-15 weeks
I would hold her muzzle shut with my hand and tell her sternly "no bite". This seemed to kind of work for a while but she went back to biting us all the time during play or to get attention. 

15-16 weeks
Tried using the leave it command so she would let go of our hand/fingers and reward or praise for letting go. But I think this made her think that biting was a way to get a treat and has caused the biting to escalate even more. 

She's growing like a weed and her jaws are getting pretty strong now and she likes to play this game of bite and now they are REALLY starting to hurt now and she's drawing blood daily now. 

I've been following most of Ian Dunbar's teachings and he says that she should have a VERY soft mouth at this point. Her instructor at the Petsmart says that she shouldn't put her mouth on her AT ALL by now. Like I said Lily is a wonderful dog but we really need to get control of the biting issue. I don't want to end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit when she's full grown and can really do some damage to someone. 

Thank you guys for any comments or advice you might have. I've been going to all of the dog forums and there seems to be the best advice coming from here.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Your hands, feet and ankles shouldn't be there. You stop the biting before it even starts. You're trying to correct the problem after the fact....you need to stop it before it starts. Ignoring means leaving the room....if she tries to bite, she looses her 'playmates'.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

TooneyDogs said:


> Your hands, feet and ankles shouldn't be there. You stop the biting before it even starts. You're trying to correct the problem after the fact....you need to stop it before it starts. Ignoring means leaving the room....if she tries to bite, she looses her 'playmates'.


Hi Tooney thanks for chiming in! 

It happens during play. We'll be playing a nice game of tug or catch the toy and then she'll decide that out hands are more interesting and go straight for them. There really isn't a cue to when the biting will start, she just goes. 

One thing that might be worth mentioning, when we yelp and leave the room she doesn't seem to particularly care all that much. She'll just begin to start chewing on one of her toys. She does have a bit of an independent streak in her.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

bimmergirl84 said:


> One thing that might be worth mentioning, when we yelp and leave the room she doesn't seem to particularly care all that much. She'll just begin to start chewing on one of her toys. She does have a bit of an independent streak in her.


That's exactly what you want to happen! The 1st half of the program is leaving the room....the 2nd half (when you come back in the room) is catching her doing something calm/nice (not biting) and you must praise/reward profusely for that nice behavior.

You cannot ignore that good behavior....you would be sending the wrong message to her.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

TooneyDogs said:


> That's exactly what you want to happen! The 1st half of the program is leaving the room....the 2nd half (when you come back in the room) is catching her doing something calm/nice (not biting) and you must praise/reward profusely for that nice behavior.
> 
> You cannot ignore that good behavior....you would be sending the wrong message to her.


Ah ha! Thanks so much Tooney. We'll make sure to praise when she chews on the toy instead of us.


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## jayleeb (Aug 4, 2009)

has the biting stopped?


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

It is getting a little better but she still tries to initiate her game of "I'll bite you and you get angry at me". 

She is getting better with stopping on command, but she doesn't get it that bitting is not acceptable unless we initiate the mouthing session. I'm trying to follow Ian Dunbar's advice in allowing the puppy to mouth softly ONLY when we say it's okay. 

I happened to meet another GSD owner at the shopping center and they told me that we'll have a land piranha for about a year before she grows out of her mouthy stage and doesn't need to mouth any more. 

Any other GSD owners want to chime in here on your experience? We are trying so hard to raise a healthy well mannered adult dog and I don't want to mess anything up!


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## hbowen87 (Aug 4, 2009)

Your situation sounds almost exactly like what I'm currently going through with Star, with the only exception that when we try to leave the room she goes all border collie and nips my heels all the way out, and lays there intent at the bottom of the stairs waiting to herd me out of the room again. She's not a GSD but it certainly is a frustrating situation! Amazing dog most of the time then turns the biting on and just doesn't give up! I feel your pain, literally *rubs multiple scratches*


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Does she get nippy right away or does she need to get revved up before she starts biting? If it takes a while before she starts and if it's predictable, you could try to stop playing before she reaches that threshold. Still give her attention, but quiet attention - give her a Kong to work on for a little bit, reward her for being quiet, then resume the game.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

jayleeb said:


> has the biting stopped?





hbowen87 said:


> Your situation sounds almost exactly like what I'm currently going through with Star, with the only exception that when we try to leave the room she goes all border collie and nips my heels all the way out, and lays there intent at the bottom of the stairs waiting to herd me out of the room again. She's not a GSD but it certainly is a frustrating situation! Amazing dog most of the time then turns the biting on and just doesn't give up! I feel your pain, literally *rubs multiple scratches*


 We are all in the same boat. I love her so much but this biting needs to get under control! 



> Does she get nippy right away or does she need to get revved up before she starts biting? If it takes a while before she starts and if it's predictable, you could try to stop playing before she reaches that threshold. Still give her attention, but quiet attention - give her a Kong to work on for a little bit, reward her for being quiet, then resume the game.


She will get nippy right away. As soon as we sit down on the floor to play with her she'll walk up to us and go straight for my forearm or wrist and bites hard. That's when she wants us to get mad and give her the negative attention. She will growl and do this bite and run back thing, trying to get us to yell and chase her. 

To make sure I can maintain a soft mouth through puppyhood and adulthood, when she is calm I do allow her to very gently mouth my hands only. During these times I am able to practice the "take it" and "leave it" command where she will start/stop the mouthing. But these commands only work when she's calm and not wanting negative attention. 

Do you guys have any advice on how we can show her to gently mouth my hands only (never the face, arms, legs, clothes, etc) when asked to do so? 

And what do you guys think of the pinch their neck fur and hold them to the floor routine like their mother would to correct rowdy behavior such as ankle biting?


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## Nevallen (Aug 6, 2009)

Personally I do not want any dog to "mouth" me. I put a stop to it very early by putting a back foot in the dogs mouth and letting it realise that biting hurts.
Any sort of negative punishment is not on in my classes. No dog needs it's neck pinched, or pushed flat on the floor and held down. To correct ankle biting you need to get the dogs focus up off your feet onto your face. Get it lookin at you and when it is calm, reward it.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

i've never thought of putting their back foot in their mouth after they start biting! good tip nevallen!!!


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## jayleeb (Aug 4, 2009)

mine bites too more like nipping i say no and if he doesnt stop i spray him with a water bottle on mist and so usually he stops when i say no . but not always he is still very young and i am a bad dog training in fact i have never trained a dog. also if i want him to come to me i honk i bicycle horn until he gets to me he always comes running lol i like that then i give him lots of loves and kisses


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## hbowen87 (Aug 4, 2009)

Hah so I tried putting Star's foot in her mouth, she sat there calmly chewing on it as if I had just handed her a chew toy. She also LOVES spray bottles of any sort, she'd probably think that was a treat. She is such a silly dog.

I did finally find something that made her feel bad about chewing on me....I was just so frustrated I went upstairs letting her follow far enough to watch me go into the bedroom and close the door, then talked loudly to my cat about how bad Star was being....I opened the door a minute later...no puppy waiting...went down stairs and she was in her crate with an "I'm sorry!" look on her face. I almost felt bad, but she didn't bite after that until my boyfriend got home from work several hours later and she was far to excited to remember to be nice. By far her best record.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

WOW she seems like she's got a huge personality! never heard of a dog getting upset at a an owner talking badly about them. lol. my puppy goes crazy when i'm not in the same room as her. i feel i've tried just about everything too but nothing works!


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## hbowen87 (Aug 4, 2009)

hehe yeah she does have a huge personality. She hates it when I leave her too, but either patiently waited til I came back to begin chewing on me again, or if I went downstairs, immediately went upstairs to bother my cat. I never expected she'd realize I was talking about her to that big hissy scary thing and it would bother her so much!


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks guys & gals for adding to the discussion. The latest.

The good: Lily is getting better with not biting our hands and wrists. When we give her the drop it command she releases with "ok" consistency. 

The BAD, really bad: Lily now attacks our ankles now with MUCH more agressiveness. During play time when she decides that she wants to up the game and get negative attention she'll just dive at my ankles and bite HARD. I got three 1/2" long cuts on my ankle from just this morning. Her biting at the ankles is definitely getting MUCH harder. Before it was like "ow, that really hurts", to "This dog is breaking my skin and making me bleed!" 

And I was reading about GSD's and their temperment. I didn't research how to pick a puppy well enough before purchasing Lily. When we went to the breeder the parents were on site but the breeder would not allow me to meet the parents (I know now that I should have left at that point). The breeder wouldn't even let me stand near their fence out of fear that the mother may jump the fence and attack me. So Lily's mom was an aggressive dog that didn't have an innate friendly temperment. Did Lily inherit this temperment and is that why she is so aggressive with the biting? 

If this matters, the mother was absolutely dominant over her father as well. Lily & littermates were separated from the mother at 7 weeks. Lived in a kennel with her littermates away from the parents for about a week before we picked her up at 8 weeks.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

wow i'm not sure if she inheritted that from her mom or not, but i'd say that breeder doesn't need to be breeding from that dog.... or any other dogs in the future!

how is she able to get at your ankles while you're playing? are you sitting in the floor legs stretched out? or are you sitting indian style? i sit indian style that way my feet are somewhat hidden. you could try wearing thick socks while you're trying to train her not to bite your ankles. or even shoes. our puppy will get at our hands any time she feels like it. we could be trying to pet her and she will reach around and try to nip at me. she also snaps at my face all the time! she's like a snapping turtle and she's only 12 weeks old! i try holding her snout closed and say "no bite" and i've tried doing the dominent thing by holding her down. everything i do only excites her more. i've tried getting up and ignoring her. she only comes after me more.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

I get the feeling that your play style with the dog consists of sitting on the floor...pushing, pulling, teasing, engaging in semi-rough play and basically playing like another dog.....is that correct?


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

TooneyDogs said:


> I get the feeling that your play style with the dog consists of sitting on the floor...pushing, pulling, teasing, engaging in semi-rough play and basically playing like another dog.....is that correct?


when i get on the floor for "play time" with my puppy i usually get out her rope and her stuffed cow and her frisbee. i will usually start petting her and talking to her calmly and if she is being good i will tell her she is being such a good girl. then i will pull out her stuffed cow toy and squeek it. then i will give it to her and let her tug a bit. then i say "drop it" and she will drop it. then i throw it across the room and she brings it to me. she drops it after i say "drop it" and we continue with that for a bit. then when she is bored with that i will sometimes get out her rope and play tug of war a bit. she will also drop that on command. then if she was good for play time i will give her a small treat. i don't have much trouble with playtime. it's when i'm on the couch or just sitting she will pounce up and snap at me. i don't get it! am i not playing enough with her? we also walk her once a day.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

scropper said:


> wow i'm not sure if she inheritted that from her mom or not, but i'd say that breeder doesn't need to be breeding from that dog.... or any other dogs in the future!
> 
> how is she able to get at your ankles while you're playing? are you sitting in the floor legs stretched out? or are you sitting indian style? i sit indian style that way my feet are somewhat hidden. you could try wearing thick socks while you're trying to train her not to bite your ankles. or even shoes. our puppy will get at our hands any time she feels like it. we could be trying to pet her and she will reach around and try to nip at me. she also snaps at my face all the time! she's like a snapping turtle and she's only 12 weeks old! i try holding her snout closed and say "no bite" and i've tried doing the dominent thing by holding her down. everything i do only excites her more. i've tried getting up and ignoring her. she only comes after me more.


We're usually standing when she goes for the ankles. Before we could stay calm since she wasn't biting as hard but now it hurts so bad that we can't always hold it in calmly. 

If we get angry then she plays the game even harder. But with a dog that is actually drawing blood it's hard to maintain our composure. 

Tooney - our style of play when standing up is:

Fetch
come back and play a little tug of war
i say drop it and she drops
she must sit before i throw it again

When sitting down we don't rough house around. I'm usually just trying to cuddle with her or rub her belly. Maybe a little bit of tug but it's usually just me wanting to be closer to my little baby.



scropper said:


> when i get on the floor for "play time" with my puppy i usually get out her rope and her stuffed cow and her frisbee. i will usually start petting her and talking to her calmly and if she is being good i will tell her she is being such a good girl. then i will pull out her stuffed cow toy and squeek it. then i will give it to her and let her tug a bit. then i say "drop it" and she will drop it. then i throw it across the room and she brings it to me. she drops it after i say "drop it" and we continue with that for a bit. then when she is bored with that i will sometimes get out her rope and play tug of war a bit. she will also drop that on command. then if she was good for play time i will give her a small treat. i don't have much trouble with playtime. it's when i'm on the couch or just sitting she will pounce up and snap at me. i don't get it! am i not playing enough with her? we also walk her once a day.


Our Lily has snapped at my face once and she got a really bad scolding and I pushed her away with some force (not abusive mind you). 

If our dog exhibits this kind of absolutely unacceptable behavior, how to we correct that?


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Is it perhaps time to get a professional involved?


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

You stop it before it starts. You've been bitten enough times to know when, where and under what circumtances they are going to happen. You MUST stop it before it starts...not after. Part of that process is not getting the dog so wound up, excited and out of control. 

Games are supposed to teach the dog how to control their movements and sharpen their coordination skills. That's what Fetch (catch)...manipulating a Buster Cube, chasing a Flirt Pole are all about.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

tooney- what's a buster cube and a flirt pole? my dog is really great with fetch. it's her favorite game. that and stealing my shoes... but we keep those out of reach for her so that's not a problem anymore lol. also, my dog surprises me when she bites me. i expect it to happen when she is excited so i will try to ignore her until she calms down. it's when we are relaxing together and i'm petting her she will lick my hand and then randomly bite me! then when i say "no" she backs up, sticks her butt in the air, growls at me, then barks at me! if i try going towards her she runs away like it's a game. usually if i ignore her she will stop... but i don't want it to even start! why can't she just lay there and let me pet her without her biting me? it's not a vicious bite... but still!


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

scropper said:


> tooney- what's a buster cube and a flirt pole?


A Buster Cube is a plastic cube with a hole in it that drops treats as it's pushed around by the dog. A flirt pole is like the cat toy...3' whip and line with a toy at the end that the dog can chase/pounce on. 



> sticks her butt in the air, growls at me, then barks at me! if i try going towards her she runs away like it's a game. usually if i ignore her she will stop... but i don't want it to even start! why can't she just lay there and let me pet her without her biting me? it's not a vicious bite... but still!


That butt in the air is an invitation to play...chase me! The bite is another 'invitation' to play.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

TooneyDogs said:


> A Buster Cube is a plastic cube with a hole in it that drops treats as it's pushed around by the dog. A flirt pole is like the cat toy...3' whip and line with a toy at the end that the dog can chase/pounce on.
> 
> 
> 
> That butt in the air is an invitation to play...chase me! The bite is another 'invitation' to play.


i like the idea of the buster cube. thanks! 

so should i ignore her when she does this? my vet told us because our dog is dominate that just telling her no won't work. but to try putting her in a room and leaving her in there until she stops whining. (like a bathroom-with nothing for her to destroy or eat). so far it's worked but once she is out she's back to being bad within an hour. lol.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

scropper said:


> tooney- what's a buster cube and a flirt pole? my dog is really great with fetch. it's her favorite game. that and stealing my shoes... but we keep those out of reach for her so that's not a problem anymore lol. also, my dog surprises me when she bites me. i expect it to happen when she is excited so i will try to ignore her until she calms down. it's when we are relaxing together and i'm petting her she will lick my hand and then randomly bite me! then when i say "no" she backs up, sticks her butt in the air, growls at me, then barks at me! if i try going towards her she runs away like it's a game. usually if i ignore her she will stop... but i don't want it to even start! why can't she just lay there and let me pet her without her biting me? it's not a vicious bite... but still!


Our Lily does this same exact thing as well! I thought that she was getting aggressive with me but as Tooney said, it's an invitation to play. I looked up the "play bow" and that's exactly what she was doing. 

The play bow:









And we made small breakthrough the other day. Doing the "ouch!" and walk away thing wasn't working too well. Turns out that she didn't understand "ouch!" From the suggestion of others I had to change "ouch" to a loud "yip!". She stopped immediately and looked at me like "oh crap, what did I just do?". It's the first time that I've gotten her to stop mouthing/biting immediately. 

Maybe you guys can try it out too. The "yip" is like how you pronounce "yippie". Just shriek it out loudly and in a high pitch. 

The other thing I do when the yip isn't working, I bark at her in a loud and as low voice as I can. This seems to get her to stop as well. She'll bark back and give me attitude but she will stop mouthing. 

And remember after all this make sure to pet your dog and let them sit & kiss and make up with you so they know that you still love them. 

Slowly but surely.......


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

yep that's the "bow" that she does! it's cute as ever but usually afterward she growls and barks at me for attention. i think i need to stick to doing one thing for a while so she doesn't get confused. lol. i've tried yelping and she just gets more excited.


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## TheDoggyGuru (Feb 23, 2008)

If you look at wolves in the wild, you'll see that they only allow a certain amount of playtime with their pups tugging at them, then it's all over. There sometimes comes a point where WE become the object of the dog's amusement, and it is no longer a mutual "play time". We become the play thing. Anytime I've had this issue, I tell the owners they can no longer play with the dog. At least not for the time being. there a a million ways to enrich your dog without you actually being there on the floor with them. Now, this is fun for us as well, and I am not saying never play with your dog again. What I am saying is, if your dog does not stop biting you, you need to stop playing with him/her. Also, games such as tug are a dominance game, and whether they win or lose, it makes them think of you as competition rather then as their leader. make no mistake about it, there is no political correctness in the dog world. The pack leader is always the more dominant dog. They are programmed that way and crave to be led by a more dominant role model. that HAS to be us. Mouthing is not allowed in the dog world, and it shouldn't be allowed in ours either. As someone has already stated, to try to correct this problem after it happened is too late. The problem needs to be corrected before it happens. You can tell when the dog is getting into the mindset of "I'm gonna chew on THAT!!!" That's when the correction needs to be implemented. "No Biting" doesn't seem to be working, as it has become the command TO bite. When it comes to these types of behavior issues, i don;t like to use words to correct the problem. I'd rather use a sound. A loud, sharp "SH!!" or "AH AH AH!!!" works wonders. Dogs don't understand english, and once the "word" takes a certain meaning to them, right or wrong, it is what it is. A sound, a SHARP sound, takes their mind off of what they are doing and brings their focus to you. Kind've like they look at you with the expression of "Woaw, what was that, what?" Also if your dog has started running after you biting your ankles or pants, then walking away is no longer an option. Stand your ground and let him/her know this is not acceptable. Stay there, just like the pack leader would. Eventually your dog will go find something else to do and you will have won the battle of wills. That is when they start to get the picture.



bimmergirl84 said:


> Our Lily does this same exact thing as well! I thought that she was getting aggressive with me but as Tooney said, it's an invitation to play. I looked up the "play bow" and that's exactly what she was doing.
> 
> The play bow:
> 
> ...



Yep, your "yip" worked because it was loud, sharp, and took your dog's mind off of biting and onto "What was that?" It's all about redirecting their mindset. Once they become obssessed with something, it's tough to get through to them. In many ways, it's the same as us!! LOL. Ever heard a loud noise, look to see what it was, then went back to your conversation and forgot what you were saying? A sharp sound works great. Congratulations.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

DogGuru - Thank you for the reply! Some bad news..... the yip now has no effect.  It only worked for 1 day now she ignores it! 

I've spoken to other GSD owners and some have told me that their dogs didn't settle down until about a year old due to their slower maturation rate. For the GSD breed am I expecting too much out of her? I know biting is "normal" but I probably have 40 tiny little cuts on my arms, legs, ankles, and calves and it's driving me nuts! 

I want to make sure that we have a mature, healthy, GSD with a soft, SAFE mouth.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

i don't think you're expecting too much. you're trying different methods and every dog is different. my puppy is three months and i expect her not to bite me... although she does. but it's a process. we've tried time out, being dominate, yelping, ignoring, walking out of the room.... everything. nothing has worked. i'm out of ideas myself...


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm so thankful I found this thread. We were living peacefully with 3 old dogs, when I rescued a puppy that was about to be put down for being a stray. I'm very good at dealing with old dogs, and I thought I was making progress with the puppy, but things have really been breaking down lately. Like the puppies some of you have been describing, Friday has a very strong play drive. Unfortunately, he lives with old dogs who don't play any more. For a while, we were solving the problem by letting him play with a neighbor's dog, but they moved, and since then, things have gotten worse. Trips to the dog park will get us an evening of peace, but I can't fit a daily trip into my schedule. We no longer play with Friday, because he doesn't want to play chase the ball, he wants to play, "let's wrestle like puppies". He's decided that provoking the old dogs into correcting him is a good game, so now instead of spending happy afternoons napping with the other dogs in my office, he is napping in a crate in my office. Even exercise isn't helping. Two miles into our walk last night, he got bored and went after my shoe laces, then my ankles, and then my arms. We were on a busy street, and leaving him wasn't an option. Since everything I did to try and stop him made the game more interesting, in the end I just stood there and let him maul me until he got bored. I'm trying so hard to be positive, but at that point I was ready to toss him into traffic.

There is nothing malicious about his behavior. He is just bored and looking for a playmate. Is this something I just need to patiently endure, or is there something else I should be doing?


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

OldDalFan..I think you answered your own question as you said he is bored...several times.
You mentioned physical exercise but, didn't say what you're doing for his mental stimulation. Basic obedience and tricks are a couple of things that will really tire him out. Dog sports like Agility, Tracking are also great outlets and mentally challenging.


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## hbowen87 (Aug 4, 2009)

OldDalFan said:


> There is nothing malicious about his behavior. He is just bored and looking for a playmate. Is this something I just need to patiently endure, or is there something else I should be doing?


My puppy Star is half border collie so a very smart dog and gets easily bored, which makes her go looking for the most obnoxious things she can do to make us give her negative attention. She's gotten a lot better lately with just random spurts of being unmanageable. Puzzle toys are a great way to entertain her, (we've been using the everlasting fun ball with treats, tug a jug with kibble, and a peanut butter filled kong, and rotating them out) as well as training like tooney said. A few of her favorite treats cut up really small and go through her sit, lay down, stay, come, play dead, paw, shake etc a few times a day works to distract her when she's out of control. I take treats with us on our walks for when she does like your puppy does (she plays with the leash instead of my shoe laces) and do the same thing right there by the side of the road, but I've definitely felt like you wanting to throw her into the traffic a time or two! (She always picks times to act up when we're in front of a crowd of people) 

I definitely think this is something that will get better with time, but along with walks and occasional trips to the dog park try fitting in more exercise for his brain, it's the only thing that has worked for me and my puppy.


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

The best thing about this thread was knowing that I'm not the only person with this problem. I know that Friday is bored, but life can't all be fun, and boredom is no excuse for leaving me looking like I've been mauled by a wild animal. Friday is gaining 2 pounds every week. As he gets bigger and stronger, the damage gets worse. We are trying to find him a new home, but I worry that he will hurt someone in his new home if we can't teach him not to bite people. Whenever Friday misbehaves, we offer him alternative things to do, but he is more interested in engaging in rowdy play. If I stay very still, he will get bored and quit, but by then, I am black and blue, and sometimes bleeding.

Friday is motivated by food when he is calm, but when he wants to play rowdy, he ignores even the best treats. He will sometimes play with toys, but is more likely to ignore them.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

OldDalFan said:


> The best thing about this thread was knowing that I'm not the only person with this problem. I know that Friday is bored, but life can't all be fun, and boredom is no excuse for leaving me looking like I've been mauled by a wild animal. Friday is gaining 2 pounds every week. As he gets bigger and stronger, the damage gets worse. We are trying to find him a new home, but I worry that he will hurt someone in his new home if we can't teach him not to bite people. Whenever Friday misbehaves, we offer him alternative things to do, but he is more interested in engaging in rowdy play. If I stay very still, he will get bored and quit, but by then, I am black and blue, and sometimes bleeding.
> 
> Friday is motivated by food when he is calm, but when he wants to play rowdy, he ignores even the best treats. He will sometimes play with toys, but is more likely to ignore them.


so are you just fostering him until you find a home or were you wanting to keep him but now you're not sure? just want to understand lol.

i have a random question... kind of along the lines of training them when they are acting all crazy. tooney-maybe you can help since you always give good answers. lol. my puppy does pretty well with giving treats when she is good and giving her small treats when she sits on command. but even if we give her small tiny treats (pupperoni's to be exact) we've noticed she gets diharrea. i think she has a sensitive tummy. she doesn't eat people food and eats naturally wild dog food. sometimes we alternate the treats for grapes. could that be doing it to her? maybe we should alternate with a veggie instead...


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

Grapes & raisins are poisonous to dogs in large quantities..... should switch to something else. 

For us, we give Lily her own kibble as her treats for training. Everyday we measure out her daily allowance of kibble in a tupperware container and feed her that throughout the day as part of her meals and regular training rewards. It helps that we have a dog that is VERY food motivated.

Most of the treats that have snazzy colorful packaging have junk for ingredients (Sugar, corn syrup, etc.) so we try to keep her to the kibble. For new behaviors we'll use really yummy stuff initially such as healthy natural jerky treats & biscuits.

And on the biting with us. It's been getting better over the last week. Tooney & Doggyguru, thanks for your advice and taking the time to give your advice. We've been keeping a better eye on when she is ABOUT to bite and stop it there. And when she does I don't walk away, I've been barking & growling back at her in the meanest doggy voice I can when she's biting at me and chasing me down. 

Hope to have some more good news for you in a few more days. Either what I'm doing is working or the behavior is extinguishing itself.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

oh my gosh i didn't know they were poisonous to dogs in large quantities! i feel like a bad owner now.  i should have checked it out first. thank you so much for that tip!

i'm glad your dog is doing better with the biting. our puppy is doing better too but now her thing is to growl and bark at me while i eat. she will beg and i'll tell her "no"! and it's almost as if she's a teenager yelling back at me. i ignore her completely and i find that when i do that she goes away and plays with a toy. if i keep saying no, no NO! and stand up she only barks more and then runs around our kitchen table like it's a game. crazy girl.


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

scropper said:


> so are you just fostering him until you find a home or were you wanting to keep him but now you're not sure? just want to understand lol.


Yes, I rescued the puppy with the idea of fostering him until I could find him a good home. He is very cute, and I have at times been seduced by the idea of keeping him. Our dogs are very old, and it is unlikely that any of them will be around in 2 years. But, the idea of keeping him is selfish. He would be happier in a home with younger dogs he can play with, and the old dogs would be much happier to have him out of our home. Two of the old dogs are rescues, and they deserve a peaceful retirement. 

Puppies are cute, but old dogs are much better companions.

P.S. We use sliced carrots as healthy treats, because one of the old dogs has a weight problem.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

do you cook the sliced carrots? i checked with the vet and they gave us the "ok" on using canned green beans as treats (no salt added kind). she doesn't get treats all the time so that works for us. she's doing a lot better and when i came home from work yesterday she didn't go in her crate so at least her tummy seemed to be doing better after i left yesterday morning. 

i don't think it's selfish to want to keep the dog. but if you'd like to put the dog's interests first-you seem to be on the right track with wanting the older dogs to be able to relax. they deserve that.


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## hbowen87 (Aug 4, 2009)

My mom used to buy bags of the baby carrots and give them to our old dog, raw, she liked them cooked but not as well. She loved them raw as much as dog treats.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

only thing i'm worried about is them being too hard for my puppy. she's only 3 months old. she likes green beans but still isn't used to them yet.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

Lately I've been barking back at her & growling back at her when she gets too rowdy and decides to nip at me. It's working well so far. But.... twice now when I barked at her and chased her she squatted and submissive pee'ed on the floor. Did not punish her for peeing, just told her outside and took her out to pee. Afterwards I made sure to have her come to me and sit and give me kisses to make up. 

Is the submissive peeing thing during this situation within normal range for a dog who is normally a very shy dog?


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Submissive peeing is never 'normal'. It's done out of fear and there's no reason to ever scare a dog to that extent....that it's afraid for it's life.....that's not training.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

wow... when i try and bark back at my puppy she barks even louder! she isn't intimidated by me. lol. so usually when she growls and sticks her butt up in the air i ignore her. if i talk to her at ALL she barks and runs away. lol.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

TooneyDogs said:


> Submissive peeing is never 'normal'. It's done out of fear and there's no reason to ever scare a dog to that extent....that it's afraid for it's life.....that's not training.


I feel like such a jerk. 

I'm sure some of you have this same question. Is this normal for a GSD to still be biting for attention at 17 weeks old? Or have we just not taught her the proper lessons? 

I have read on the GSD forums that the heel nipping is part of their sheep herding DNA and is a natural behavior for them. 

What do you more experienced dog owners & trainers think of the holding the muzzle shut method?


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

when i hold my puppys muzzle closed it sometimes works. but most of the time she just tries to wiggle her way out of my grasp and once she does she continues to act crazy. but i have a cocker/lab mix... not a GSD. i just learned what GSD means by the way. haha 

don't feel like a jerk. you were just trying different methods. i've tried about all of them too. you have your dogs best interest at heart. just don't scare her. lol.


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## Zeiff (May 6, 2009)

We had a difficult time with this issue. This is what we did:

My wife and I adopted an Aussie who is very strong willed. We tried everything. I would yelp and turn away. This would just encourage him. Eventually we put some coins in a soda can. When he mouthed me my wife would shake the can. Within a week we had very little problem with this.
http://www.dogforums.com/19-first-time-dog-owner/51105-dog-bites-playfully.html


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## Nevallen (Aug 6, 2009)

So Bimmergirl,
The foot in the mouth has not worked, trying to transfer the bite to a tug toy has not worked, trying to lift the foot/leg/hand/arm out of reach has not worked, trying to yelp and then ignore has not worked- what have I missed?

All the above in the space of a week or two. Strikes me you are not giving any one method a fair shake. Like a smoking habit, it will take time to break your dog of what you have allowed to become a habit.

In training a dog, consistency is paramount. Find what works and do it over and over and over.

At the end of the day, if all else fails, ask your pet store for a "Husher". And I am serious about the "all else". If one method fails after trying it consistantly for a week or two, then try another method.


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

how long should a person try each method? maybe that's why my puppy still nips at me.  i give it about a week and if she hasn't caught on i usually switch it up. i'm such a goof for thinking she's get it after only a week lol. 

i think i might try the coins in a can. sometimes a rolled up magazine works. all we have to do is pick it up and start rolling it (but we don't hit her) and she stops what she is doing and runs away. but i'd really like it if i'm not scaring her. i'd like to just say "no" and clap or something and have her stop but not run from me.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

Nevallen said:


> So Bimmergirl,
> The foot in the mouth has not worked, trying to transfer the bite to a tug toy has not worked, trying to lift the foot/leg/hand/arm out of reach has not worked, trying to yelp and then ignore has not worked- what have I missed?
> 
> All the above in the space of a week or two. Strikes me you are not giving any one method a fair shake. Like a smoking habit, it will take time to break your dog of what you have allowed to become a habit.
> ...


Thanks for your reply! 

We tried the ignore method the longest, over a month of that. Tried the foot in the mouth for a whole day, that had zero effect whatsoever. The "YIPE!" did work well for one day, then she could care less. 

If a method loses its effect or doesn't work at all do we continue with that method for a few days anyways? 

Yesterday we tried the spray bottle and that is working, for now....


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

oh i tried the spray bottle... worked ONCE. lol. then she realized she get sprayed with yummy water when she bites me! must be a good thing then right?! haha. she LOVES water so i knew that couldn't have been good.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

The latest update..... We've been using the spray bottle for the last few days and it has been working very well with getting her to stop. It seems to be doing what the yelp was _supposed _to do.

We always try to make sure that she doesn't see us spay her so she associates that spray bottle with the water spray. Then she would only stop bitting if she knew it was around. We have to set her up for it. So when we know she's in a playful mood we have someone else sit close by and just watch for her and zap her. 

Overall since I started this post her biting has gone down by 75%. Not sure if my attempts to fix it really were the cure, or she just grew out of it. Right now I'm just happy that I don't have any fresh cuts on my arms and legs!


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## hbowen87 (Aug 4, 2009)

bimmergirl84 said:


> Overall since I started this post her biting has gone down by 75%. Not sure if my attempts to fix it really were the cure, or she just grew out of it. Right now I'm just happy that I don't have any fresh cuts on my arms and legs!


This past week Star's had something happen inside and she's a lot safer too. It is a nice feeling isn't it?


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

Friday is also doing much better. The bruises on my arms are starting to fade, and he is being gentle with the old dogs. The cat isn't doing as well, but he does provoke a lot of it. I think he wants to play in the beginning, but when his entire head is in the puppy's mouth, he has a change of heart. A few minutes after we escort him safely from the room, he is right back nose to nose with the puppy.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

The White GSD I work with was/is the same..he's a snapper, air snapper, excited snapper, playing snapper and an excited barker...all NORMAL. GSD's are land alligators. 
His owners were having issues with this of course.
This is how we deal with it and yes it has improved over time with consistency and CALM behaviour on my part:

Tug with rules (tug is NOT a dominance game and dogs are NOT wolves)...if he misses the tug, doesn't drop it when I ask or gets too excited the game ends. Toy is put away..not left around for him..it is only for when we play together. Both the "take" and the "give" are put on cue. So he knows now that he only gets to grab when I cue him and as soon as he drops it on cue he gets to "take it" again. He got me on the arm ONCE and yeah it hurt like the ****ens...I yelled OUCH and took the toy, tied his leash to the fence and walked away. Game over. He hasn't done it since.

I taught him to touch my hand on cue with a clicker and treats...as soon as he starts getting overexcited at ANY time I cue him to touch...touch high, touch low, jump and touch, touch to the side etc etc. Every gentle nose touch is rewarded with a treat. Then I get a sit and down and stay and reward the POSITION. 

No wrestling, period. (this was a tough one for his young man of an owner). No fast or rough petting, especially around his face. As soon as you started 'ruffling' around his head, neck or face he would mouth. Stopped giving him the oppportunity and he is now safe to handle at the face. If I had tried the muzzle holding he would have pulled away, learned my hands are unsafe...you DON"T want a dog that thinks hands are unsafe. Period.

All interaction with the dog should be calm. Even tug is calm from the human's side. Reward ALL good behaviour.

Memphis is a GREAT dog and is maturing as we go. He is now 1 1/2 years old, these dogs often do not fully mature until they are almost 3. They are extremely smart and high energy and things like flirt poles, tugging and problem solving games (like "find it" and scent games) will help to fulfill the dog's needs and to give her something else to do besides use YOU as a chew toy. This will take time and patience and you definitely need to do the same method for a definite period of time to expect any changes. For a dog to generalize a really good SIT for example (meaning any time, on the first command in any place) can take HUNDREDS of repetitions and lots of reinforcing so any thing that is involving impulse control (which is the crux of this problem) will take LOTS of repetition.

Here's a pic of Memphis..he's a Happy boy!


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## scropper (May 26, 2009)

what a pretty doggie!


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hi cracker, thanks for the informative post. I've stopped the muzzle hold at your direction. what you're saying makes perfect sense. 

She is doing much better but she still gets overly excited every now and then. I've talked to some other GSD owners and they are telling me that some of them mouth until they are a year old! **sigh**

I'm hoping that I can update this thread in another month and say "no more mouthing!" Keeping those fingers crossed.....


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## R.J. (Sep 16, 2009)

this is something that should be addressed promptly


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Geez Rj. That's a really helpful post...care to elaborate?


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## OldGirl (8 mo ago)

TooneyDogs said:


> Your hands, feet and ankles shouldn't be there. You stop the biting before it even starts. You're trying to correct the problem after the fact....you need to stop it before it starts. Ignoring means leaving the room....if she tries to bite, she looses her 'playmates'.


Sorry, your message is not clear to me at all. How in the heck can you stop nipping before it happens?


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

This thread is over a decade old. You're not likely to get a reply. Please feel free to start your own thread or participate in current discussion.


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