# Loudmouth in Agility (Rant & Advice)



## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I think I've posted in every barking/whining-related thread since I joined this forum, stating how much barking and whining bother me. I also mention that I've worked with Gypsy since puppyhood, and she's all but silent, thank God!

Well, the joke's on me. We started agility, and it turns out my dog is THE loudest, most obnoxious barker. When she's not barking her head off, she's whining like a broken squeaky toy. 

Everyone at my CPE facility is super nice about it. The owners & instructor know drivey dogs and have no problem at all with her vocal enthusiasm. The other students are really good-natured about it too. I try to control Gypsy's noise as much I can while we await our turn on the course (she usually just whines), but once she's on the course, I let her bark like a fool. The other folks are fine with it and tell me not to worry about her loud mouth.

I had been considering taking agility classes at a different facility. This one is AKC, closer to me and less expensive. Yesterday, I brought Gypsy in for an assessment. We warmed up with a figure-8 jump, did perfect weave bars, did well on a mini-course set up for us, and got over some nerves on the (much louder than our home facility) teeter. This was the first time Gyp has done agility anywhere but our CPE facility. There were tons of dogs doing agility around, as well as dogs/people doing obedience and conformation classes in the same room. Gyp did fantastic with all the distractions. She was keyed into me the entire time! I was thrilled!

But, hoooooly heavens, the barking! The moment I let her off leash, the entire building shook with Gypsy's mouth. The woman who was assessing us kept commenting on it. "She always barks like that?" "You should probably work on that." "Here, Gypsy, NO BARKING. *holds muzzle* Now reward her for no barking..." "Wow, she's loud."

There were _lots _of other people working their dogs in the room (big warehouse setup), and I'm pretty sure we had every eye at some point. I realize the barking was obnoxious, the building echoed, and I felt bad for disturbing people. But, like, what do I do about it? I told the assessment lady, "Look, if the barking's going to be a problem, we probably don't belong at this facility." She back-tracked a lot and told me that a lot of dogs barked, butbutbut. She was obviously REALLY conscious of the noise. In fact, I'm not sure she even noticed how well we did otherwise...

I left feeling awful. My dog did FANTASTIC, all things considered, but all I can think about was her incessant barking and how it bothered everyone.  It's enthusiasm. Gypsy's upupup when she's running a course, and it doesn't affect her attention. I've been told by my CPE folks that she'll chill with time and exposure, but right now the agility course is something she loves to talk about. I really don't know if I want to be stopping and correcting her every time she barks. Won't that just make agility miserable for both of us?

As we left the AKC facility, there was a group of people talking, in clear view of us and the agility ring. Some were watching us go. A woman said, loudly, "Yeah, MY dog isn't allowed to bark at home or in the yard." I don't know if she was addressing us, but I perceived it that way. I was so taken aback, I stopped and said, "Yeah, my dog doesn't bark at home. Or in the yard. Or at the park. But she does bark during agility." Then I left.

I just... was beginning to adapt to the barking and not stress over it. And now I'm a mess over it again. Gypsy ran great, especially since we're super green and we were in a new place for the first time. But all anyone noticed was her loud mouth.

Thoughts? Sympathy?


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## JTurner (May 19, 2013)

I juuust started agility a few weeks back and I have right around a year's worth of classes before I graduate from competitive agility, and he is already starting to bark! My dog loves agility and is taking to it like a fish in water, but he can't stand when he has to sit outside the ring waiting for his turn. He barks, whines, & will chew and bite me which really gets annoying. I can only imagine it getting worst as we get more into agility 0_o


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Some dogs bark when they run agility? I dunno. I would be annoyed if people were obnoxious about a dog barking while it ran. A lot of them do (uh.... shelties and Aussies anyone?)


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

The one woman who runs a Sheltie that barks all the time, stops and makes the dog sit and settle down but as soon as they start up again, it just barks some more so does not seem to be helping any. She has several Shelties and some of them have been debarked.


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## momtolabs (May 27, 2012)

When I watch trials on my tv I always see lots of herders barking. If I got Mia into agility she would bark. When she has energy plus excitment she barks. I'm not into agility but if the dog does okay, and barks who cares? It can be annoying yes but not everyone can have a non barker.

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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

I think the people were being pretty rude. A lot of the agility trials I watch, the dogs bark. Especially Aussies. If she ran great you should be proud of yourself and her! Lots of dogs bark doing courses, they can get over it.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

A trainer I know who actually sponsors agility trials has Aussies that bark like crazy. Since we trial outside, it not that big of a deal. Dogs bark.. Our club sponsored a NADAC trial last month and although I didn't compete, I went up to photograph a special event we had put on during the trial....it was dead silent. Apparently the judge expected all the dogs to be quiet. She also excused several dogs from the trial. There are at least two competitors with multiple dogs who swear they will never do NADAC again. I don't get it myself. I have 5 dogs. Most of the time I don't even notice barking.



> Everyone at my CPE facility is super nice about it.


I love CPE!

eta When I first read the title of your thread, I thought you were talking about a human loudmouth...I have a crazy competitor friend who has Jack Russells.....you should hear her scream in the ring....we always know when she is running.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Add me to the list of people who think the instructor was rude. I mean, dogs bark during agility, it happens all the time. Personally, I don't think it's a great idea to hold classes in a big space with other things going on, because the agility dogs are probably going to be disruptive at some point and I don't know if there's much you can do about it.

Watson barks when he's excited and frustrated that we're not doing anything, but thank goodness he's quiet when he's working. I try to shut him up while he's waiting his turn because he needs to learn to settle quietly. On the other hand, we train with a keeshond who yaps like crazy when he's excited and working, but is silent while waiting. Everybody thinks it's cute and nobody is trying to dampen his enthusiasm or make him be quiet. I once watched him bark his way around an entire rally course, so I'm sure he would be a loudmouth in agility. Some dogs are just like that and I agree that working too hard on shutting them up is just going to effect their work. 

It's probably one of those things that's easier to prevent than to fix, but then I also think that dogs are individuals and sometimes no matter how much you try to prevent and "do the right thing", they're going to have quirks and do their thing. At some point you just have to accept them, but I know that's hard. Just remember that other people's dogs might not have the same annoying quirks that yours do, but they probably have annoying quirks of their own that you're not seeing or noticing. I would stay with the CPE place where people are supportive of you guys.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks for the advice and thoughts, everyone. I'm breathing easier. We'll definitely be staying with our CPE venue.

I'm a loudmouth in agility, too. By necessity. Haha. We played Snooker last night in our CPE agility league, and I was practically screaming. Gypsy's the kinda dog who will take the obstacle in front of her and the next three just 'cause. Which, obviously, isn't ideal for Snooker. Plus, with the loud barking, I was shouting for her to hear me. "Gypsy, jump. HERE HERE HEEEEEEEEERE! Tunnel. HEEEEEEERE. Jump. HEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE!" It was a freaking riot, though. She LOVES it and is so, so full of drive. I feel like I'm reigning in a herd of wild animals, not one, haha. 

Yeah, I mean, with the barking, I have no idea what I'd do at this point. It started in our Intro to Agility course, and has been going on for months. I'm not sure she realizes she's doing it, even. In the beginning, I tried to calm her down and stop it, but I eventually gave up. It's just an overflow of her happy energy. I don't want to turn it into a source of correction. Part of that is selfish. I'd rather not worry about something that doesn't affect her performance. I spend so much time micromanaging her behavior; it's fun to let her be herself.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

No excuse for the rudeness, but here are a couple of thoughts:

If you're not correcting the behavior, then you are inadvertently rewarding it by letting her move on in the course. It's not going to go away if it's constantly rewarded. 

Whatever happens, don't scream. Don't lose your cool at all. If Gyp can't hear your commands because she's barking too much, then it's her responsibility to shut up, NOT your responsibility to get louder. After a few times of missing your cue and not getting to continue the course, she'll figure out that it pays to be quiet and listen. You may be fueling the frenetic behavior by allowing yourself to get worked up.

This may sound like tough love, but I run a dog who will take a mile if you give her an inch. Kit used to be a barker, especially in beginning agility class. Now she runs silently, except for when I screw up - then she lets me know, usually pretty loudly.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I agree with Gotta on this one. 

If you want to tone it down, I would be pulling her and crating her as soon as she started barking. 

Personally don't have a problem with barking, but Recon was a bad barker for a long time as a puppy and it made him lose his head and communication was hard. I start dogs off with cues for obstacles, etc. but I fade that and arm waving out and I run silently with my arms at my side primarily once they understand the game. So as a puppy there was just too much going on for him with my talking on top of it and he was getting too excited and barking a lot which lead to dropped bars, not paying attention, etc. 

I started pulling him from courses when he'd start barking and crating him and it helped a little. What really helped though was communicating clearer and dropping my voice unless absolutely necessary. This would be for times when he couldn't see me and I wasn't going to be where he last saw me, or for a really tight pull/push. Otherwise, he should be relying only on my body and what he sees in front of him. Now he runs completely silently, unless I'm being a moron, and he lets me know. 

Dogs are going to bark. It shouldn't be an issue. Sounds like you have a bad club near you. At Border Collie Nationals (AKC) we had conformation people complaining all week about the noise because they packed 3 rings into the event cetner at purina farms and expected the noise to be controllable. Uhh... Sometimes, you don't want drive diminished for the sake of silence. When the dogs are getting ready to run a lure course or dive, they are yapping their heads off. And 7 times out of 10 I could probably make them be quiet... but why? I want them to get excited and turn on so that they perform better. You just need to make sure they're barking because they're focused and in drive mode, and not because you aren't communicating something effectively.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I agree that in some cases it's ok to allow barking while you are building drive. But once you have the drive you want, there is no need to allow barking, and being in drive doesn't mean a dog has to bark. I also agree the club seemed a bit rude. If they have an issue with barking, they should be offering solutions, not just complaining about it or being rude.

As long as your dog is allowed to run while barking, the behaviour is being reinforced, so it will never get any better. I personally wouldn't allow it because it would drive me mad, and especially if the barking meant I'd have to shout at the top of my lungs just for the dog to hear me.

Before you introduce a punisher (removing from the course and crating), you need to build up a reward history for what you want, otherwise the dog can't tell if they are crated because they made a mistake on course or for barking or for any number of other things. So start with her in a calm state of mind and let her do one jump. If she's quiet, reward. If she barks, try getting her even calmer before you start, like do some heeling or it's yer choice or a down/stay. The goal is to set her up so that there is a behaviour to reward. To start with it might be less vocalising than preciously, not complete silence.

Then build your way up to a couple of jumps, and then you can do the same thing with her in a higher drive state. Once you've been able to reward several repetitions, that's when I would introduce crating. But you still need to set her up to succeed, if you take her off course and crate her every time she runs, you risk sucking the joy and drive out of it. So you need to go back to basics a bit and work in a lower state of drive over fewer jumps.

That's assuming you want to fix it of course. I personally wouldn't care if someone else's dog is barking during agility, as long as both handler and dog are having fun. But I wouldn't allow it from my own dogs.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks for the advice, all. I read the responses a few times and spent a while very seriously thinking about how to go forward from here. I've had a discussion with a couple of my CPE agility instructors as well. 

I've decided that I'll be disallowing barking when Gyp is not completing obstacles. That is, even if we're in the ring (moving to our start spot or between practice runs), any barks earn her a down/stay/quiet. I need to be immediate, direct, and stern with her. She will also earn a down/stay/quiet if she's overwound and taking incorrect obstacles as a result. It isn't a big issue. Even while barking, she's usually pretty focused on me. But if it becomes a problem, I'll pull her off the course and insist on silence.

She is reallyreally high drive. Both the instructors and I feel it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to aim for a silent dog, at least at this point. Knowing Gyp, I think the barking will fade a little as the novelty wears off. It's certainly better when we work our course at home before going to class. 

I intend to rent the facility and practice no barking during obstacles, but the class setting really isn't a good place for me to be nitpicking her so much. Again, at this point at least.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I just want to emphasise that you shouldn't use punishment (which a down/stay or being taken off course is), before you've built up a reward history for what you actually want. If you use punishment when the dog doesn't know what you want instead, training will take longer, it will reduce the dog's confidence, and it may think the punishment is for something completely different.

Also, if a dog makes a wrong turn or the wrong obstacle, it's worth videoing yourself to make sure that your handling is clear for her. If you're fairly new to agility, your handling might not be what you think and you may have inadvertently sent her the wrong way.

But once you've built up a reward history, the above sounds like a good plan


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

lil_fuzzy said:


> Before you introduce a punisher (removing from the course and crating), you need to build up a reward history for what you want, otherwise the dog can't tell if they are crated because they made a mistake on course or for barking or for any number of other things. So start with her in a calm state of mind and let her do one jump. If she's quiet, reward. If she barks, try getting her even calmer before you start, like do some heeling or it's yer choice or a down/stay. The goal is to set her up so that there is a behaviour to reward. To start with it might be less vocalising than preciously, not complete silence.
> 
> Then build your way up to a couple of jumps, and then you can do the same thing with her in a higher drive state. Once you've been able to reward several repetitions, that's when I would introduce crating. But you still need to set her up to succeed, if you take her off course and crate her every time she runs, you risk sucking the joy and drive out of it. So you need to go back to basics a bit and work in a lower state of drive over fewer jumps.


I think this is really sound advice. I'm not sure if Gypsy is a soft dog, but I work with mine and some of them are very soft and corrections make them shut down, so I usually have to resort to positive reinforcement only. There were a couple of times when I lost my cool and yelled at a couple of them while training, and they IMMEDIATELY shut down and I couldn't get anything out of them for the next couple of days. Lesson learned. No more yelling during training! It has to be FUN FUN FUN and good things only if you want the dog to be putting in its BEST.


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