# Dogs eating lots of acorns



## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

My dogs run free on two fenced acres. I have several large oaks, which are dropping acorns. The dogs (Labradors) have been eating them like pigs. It doesn't seem to do them any harm. Is there anything I should look out for? Should I reduce their food intake to make up for the added calories?


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

You need to stop them now.



> Acorns (_Quercus spp_.) contain a toxic principle called Gallotannin. In cows and horses who repeatedly ingest significant amounts, we have seen potentially severe gastrointestinal irritation, depression and kidney damage.
> Dogs, however, generally do not forage on acorns as livestock do—and even if they do ingest several acorns, it is usually an acute (single) exposure, not a chronic situation. In these cases, we typically only see mild to moderate gastrointestinal upset, which can include vomiting, diarrhea and abdominal discomfort. However, there is also the potential for mechanical irritation (from the sharp fragmented pieces of acorn), and possible obstruction, should a large amount of acorn material become lodged in the GI tract.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

There is no way to stop them from eating acorns, short of keeping them indoors 24/7. I guess I could muzzle them????

I know enough ethnobotany to know that oaks vary significantly in tannin content (ie, the spp in Quericus spp can matter). Plenty of dogs eat acorns around here with no apparent ill effects. And the 'toxic to dogs' lists are often misleading (my dogs ate buckets full of grapes when I lived on a vineyard property . . . I didn't know grapes were supposed to be toxic. When someone told me grapes were toxic, I checked around and found that many many vineyard dogs eat grapes in large quantities. Much the same with avocados.)
Guess I should consult my local vet, who has been in practice around here for a long time and will be familiar with the problem if it is a problem.
They ate lots of acorns last year and nothing happened.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

sandgrubber said:


> My dogs run free on two fenced acres. I have several large oaks, which are dropping acorns. The dogs (Labradors) have been eating them like pigs. It doesn't seem to do them any harm. Is there anything I should look out for? Should I reduce their food intake to make up for the added calories?


I would *not* change your dogs' diet. Just continue feeding the same type and amount of dog food. Think of the acorns as an extra.

Labs are noted for scarfing up almost anything. Although acorns are not poisonous as such ( as opposed to peach pits or grapes which are known to be very poisonous), if they eat too many acorns that may result in an upset stomach. In dogs, that generally leads to vomiting or diarrhea or both. If either of those get too far, it can be so irritating to the digestive system that it can interfere with normal digestion, or cause dehydration. Either of these conditions can be dangerous. So just watch out for that.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

I have heard..... In more recent years.... That acorns can be toxic.....
But deer, hogs, squirrels, raccoons, possums, bears, birds, etc gorge on them in the fall. 

I have killed hogs and deer that had bellies so full of them you could not get another one in there.. I am talking literally 10 pounds or more of acorns in a deer stomach. Twice that in a hog's stomach. 


I have had cattle and horses eat significant amounts at times. 

I have never had a dog with a taste for them. But I have seen coyotes forage on them. 

I would check with your vet, but I have never seen an animal have ill effects from them and they are an important food source for many species.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

And SandGrubber..... I believe you are in Alachua County. I am in Hillsborough A couple hours South. We would have the same species of oaks. 
Laurel Oaks, Live Oaks, Turkey Oak, Scrub Oaks, Water Oaks.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Alachua is pretty High ground (for Florida..) I would imagine Live Oaks And Turkey Oaks. 

Oh and Turkeys will eat so many you can see their crop bulging out at a hundred yards


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

And goats will climb a fence to get to them.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

None of the animals you listed are dogs. Human beings and rats can eat chocolate but dogs can't. Many species eat grapes and yet they are toxic to dogs. That argument is invalid when compared to scientific vet studies.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kayota said:


> None of the animals you listed are dogs. Human beings and rats can eat chocolate but dogs can't. Many species eat grapes and yet they are toxic to dogs. That argument is invalid when compared to scientific vet studies.


Coyotes are not dogs? 

And as far as studies. I found none in googling it last night and this morning. What I did find is a lot of opinions that acorns could be toxic. The reason given is that the contain gallotannins. Well a number of things eaten contain tannins. Down here all of our rivers and lakes are full of tannins. 

There is stuff all over the net about folks dogs eating acorns and wondering if it is okay. But very little about dogs that actually got sick from eating them


The closest thing I did find to a study suggested that in cattle acorns become e toxic when cattle eat 6% of body weight. If that translates to dogs that would be a little over 4 pounds in a 70 pound dog. 


The best suggestion is still that sand grubber call her vet. A local vet will know the score.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Jubel is obsessed with eating acorns. I do my best to keep him from getting too many but it's pretty much impossible to walk him and completely prevent him getting acorns. Hasn't done any harm that I've noticed. I'm not overly alarmed by it, mentioned it to my vet and they didn't seem concerned about him eating a few here and there. 

If we stop in the park to chat with the other dog people I know Jubel will try and scarf acorns pretty much the whole time. So I shorten up his leash so he can't reach his head to the ground to get them. This dog will literally hang himself by his neck and try and pick them up with his paws and bring it to his mouth. He can't actually manage this but boy does he try. He'll even fake interest in saying hi to someone, wanting to play with another dog, you name it and if I give him slack on the leash he drops to the ground to eat more acorns. Seriously, dog is obsessed. 

I've taken to very lightly tapping him in the side with my foot when he scoops down to grab one while we are walking. He gives me the most pathetic looks in the world over this but hasn't stopped him one bit yet. Same dog doesn't bat an eye if he suddenly crosses in front of me and I end up hitting him much harder in the sides with my shins. He knows when there is intend and when it's accidental. Accidental he acts like nothing at all happened, intentional he's throwing appeasement signals like crazy. Still goes after the next acorn he sees without missing a beat. Obsessed.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

I think my dogs are fine. As I watch more closely, they are only eating the acorns from water oaks (or what the neighbors call water oaks . . . I haven't used a botanic key to verify the identification). They steer clear of the live oak acorns. I suspect they wait until the acorns are fully ripe . . . probably when the tannin levels are minimal. They only started eating acorns a week or so ago. Turds normal; looks like everything is going straight through. No signs of illness. They're especially lively, given the cold weather.

p.s. Kayota . .. many (most?) dogs can eat grapes in large quantities with no harm done. I used to 7 acres of grapes. The dogs ate lots of grapes with no problems. I discussed this with a whole network of viticulturalists. No one has problems with dogs getting poisoned. I'm not going to feed my dogs chocolate. But there are a lot of things out there about 'poison to dogs' that one has to take with a grain of salt.


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## workerant (Feb 28, 2011)

You might can pick up the worst of the acorns with a push lawn sweeper. My hound, Maeby, is a raving fiend for acorns so I feel your pain.

FWIW, the way the "raisins and grapes" thing was explained to me by my vet is that most dogs aren't sensitive to raisins and grapes but some are. By the time you realize your dog is one of the unlucky ones, it's too late. So it's safer to consider raisins and grapes poisonous to dogs, though they're actually only poisonous to _some_ dogs. I haven't looked into it further because, well, there's lots of other things to eat and I don't live on a vineyard!


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

I'd personally be more worried about the dogs accidentally choking on them than being poisoned. I don't let Bella have them because she runs around (zoomie runs) with them in her mouth.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Coyotes are not dogs?
> 
> And as far as studies. I found none in googling it last night and this morning. What I did find is a lot of opinions that acorns could be toxic. The reason given is that the contain gallotannins. Well a number of things eaten contain tannins. Down here all of our rivers and lakes are full of tannins.
> 
> ...


Coyotes are not dogs. Canines yes, but in the same way that **** erect us is not **** sapiens, canis familiaris is not canis latrans.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kayota said:


> Coyotes are not dogs. Canines yes, but in the same way that **** erect us is not **** sapiens, canis familiaris is not canis latrans.


LOL Really..... Coyotes are dogs by any definition.... Look in just about any version of any dictionary and you will find this definition for dogs.....
*any carnivore of the dog family Canidae, having prominent canine teeth and, in the wild state, a long and slender muzzle, a deep-chested muscular body, a bushy tail, and large, erect ears. *

And the opening statement from here....
*The coyote is a member of the dog family,*
http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/profiles/mammals/land/coyote/

Additionally coyotes can and do readily and successfully breed with domestic dogs, producing fertile offspring. 
A coyotes digestive tract is essentially if not completely the same as a domestic dog. 

They have the same dietary needs.... 


I am still waiting to see these "scientific vet studies" you mentioned in your first post.... Because I found none..... 

I did find some paper on cattle and acorns.... But none on dogs.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I was referring to what Amaryllis posted without having looked at it. My mistake.

Coyotes are not domestic dogs. Is that better? "dog family" and "canine" are synonymous. They are not the same species.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kayota said:


> I was referring to what Amaryllis posted without having looked at it. My mistake.
> 
> Coyotes are not domestic dogs. Is that better? "dog family" and "canine" are synonymous. They are not the same species.


Well seeing how domestic dogs are NOT a species but rather a sub species of Canis Lupus......

They ARE in the same GENUS.... 

They are dogs.......

And in the context of this discussion there is no difference..... 

You are going of on some tangent.....

So other than going off on this tangent was there some point you were trying to make? 

Certainly you were not suggesting that the digestive traits or dietary needs of coyotes are different than domestic dogs?


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Kayota said:


> I was referring to what Amaryllis posted without having looked at it. My mistake.
> 
> Coyotes are not domestic dogs. Is that better? "dog family" and "canine" are synonymous. They are not the same species.


Kinda depends on which definition of species you are using. A common definition is any animals that can mate and produce fertile offspring which coyotes and domesticated dogs can do. Some definitions are more narrowing but the first is the most common usage.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Coyotes and dogs can breed and produce viable and fertile offspring (coydogs), though this doesn't happen often. I think most taxonomists would say they are closely related species.
Dogs and wolves may or may not be the same species depending on how you define species. But the geneticists find that many of the genes that differentiate wolves from domestic dogs relate to ability to digest starch. (I'll find the references if anyone cares . . . the lead article was recent and appeared in either Science or Nature).
I'll take a flying leap from that and speculate that dogs, in turn, vary considerably in their dietary tolerances. Some are more wolf-like and do best on straight meat and bone. Some can eat almost anything. Labradors are on the extreme end of the 'can (and will) eat anything' category, though they are also (like humans) prone to obesity and diabetes. My guess is that acorns are fine for (most) Labradors, but might cause problems with dogs with sensitive digestive tracts.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Coyotes are dogs.....

The entire family are dogs....
Wolves, jackals, Dholes, Cape hunting dogs, New Guinea Singing dogs, Dingoes, Foxes, Domestic dogs, etc.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

This entire ugly business about coyotes got started because I stated and listed animals I had personally observed foraging on acorns. 

Then a member said my list was invalid in this discussion because none of them were dogs. 

To which I said, coyotes are not dogs? 

To which the member said no...

To which I stated they are.....


Continuing on.... Coyotes = dogs in the context of this discussion. 

Of all the wild dog (Or canine - choose your own word because they are interchangable) The diet of the coyote (possibly the Dingo as well but most of what I know of dingo diets is anecdotal) MOST closely resembles that of the domesticated dog. Coyotes are opportunistic and can and do survive on a WIDE array of food types. In fact coyote diets at times mirror that of domestic dogs. In many places coyotes directly compete with feral and pariah dogs for available resources. 

Of course given opportunity coyotes are going to gravitate towards a meat and prey diet. But they also conserve and use whatever resources are available to them. In places coyotes are significant agriculture pests on crops. Eating oranges, melons (They LOVE melons), strawberries, etc. 

There is no morphological difference between coyotes and domestic dogs to suggest that a resource a coyote would use would also be a resource a domestic dog could use.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Whatever Johnny. It literally does not matter, as usual you just need to be righter than someone else.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

sassafras said:


> Whatever Johnny. It literally does not matter, as usual you just need to be righter than someone else.


Only when I am right..... And I am....


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Only when I am right..... And I am....


Hey! You're both right. Sassifrass . . . .yes, it's utterly trivial! Who cares if 'dog' means the genus or the species. Could mean either.
Johnny . . . if all Quericus ssp. can be called oaks, all Canis ssp. can be called dogs!


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

Back to the original question, please.

The incidences of "acorn poisoning" (more correctly _quercus poisoning_) has come about in cattle and some other domestic animals that are restricted to grazing in confined areas, according to the Merck Manual. And it is mostly due to eating a lot of leaves rather than acorns - although they probably ate those as well. Grazing animals tend to eat _*huge*_ quantities of whatever forage they can get - their digestive system is meant to handle such eating habits. If there are a lot of oak leaves around -and not much else - they will eat a lot of oak leaves. It is more an issue of the huge quantity consumed rather than the stuff itself. 

According to the Merck Manual, this isn't a problem with dogs.

Dogs - and other carnivores/omnivores as well - have completely different digestive systems than do grazing animals. 

It is unlikely that a dog could consume anything close to a problematic amount of leaves (or acorns) before they would vomit it up or otherwise eliminate it. In that case, it isn't the overall reaction to the oak products that is the issue - it is the elimination (vomiting or diarrhea). That by itself can cause a problem in their digestive system. 

OTOH, some animals - pigs for example -actually thrive on a diet of acorns. It doesn't make them ill at all. In fact, ham from pigs fed mostly acorns is considered a delicacy. If you can find acorn ham, expect to shell out close to $100 per pound for it. 

Since each species is obviously different, we should stick to dogs.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Amaryllis said:


> You need to stop them now.


Mine eat them too, there is no way I can stop them, my yard is 2 acres, and we have like 5 large oaks, they don't eat them habitually, but there is no way I can pick up every single acorn on 2 acres LOL.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Whatever Johnny. It literally does not matter, as usual you just need to be righter than someone else.


well ... technically they are all the same family, dingoes were originally domestic dogs that were brought over and, like the mustangs of the west, went wild.

I think what he is saying is they are in the same base family, the same way domestic horses, zebras, and donkeys/burros are in the same base family.

I guess???


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

sandgrubber said:


> Hey! You're both right. Sassifrass . . . .yes, it's utterly trivial! Who cares if 'dog' means the genus or the species. Could mean either.
> Johnny . . . if all Quericus ssp. can be called oaks, all Canis ssp. can be called dogs!


But all Quercus ssp are oaks and all Canis ssp are dogs...... 


Seriously...... All I was trying to do was offer insight based on my observations in regard to animals feeding on acorns.... I got attacked and then someone decided to pile on... 


And speaking of Merck... I saw the paper they had on livestock..... I found interest on their comments on goats.... I had two live oaks in my goat pen.... From 1981 through 89 I had goats in there and they ate zillions of acorns. Never had a sick goat...


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

You knew exactly what I was trying to say, that coyotes aren't domestic dogs. I'm kind of sick of having you pick arguments just because you can.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kayota said:


> You knew exactly what I was trying to say, that coyotes aren't domestic dogs. I'm kind of sick of having you pick arguments just because you can.



Coyotes are dogs... With no morphological differences of the digestive tract as compared to domestic dogs....

And I did not pick a fight.... You on the other hand attacked me. I was being nice and offering information based on real world observation and personal experience. 

YOU however chose to attempt to discount the information I provided and and said what I provided was INVALID compared to scientific vet studies..... And that coyotes are not dogs....

But coyotes ARE dogs.... And I am still waiting for those "scientific vet studies"......

I was offering earnest information to someone that lives a couple hours from me. YOU are the one that picked a fight.... NOT me...... So you are welcome to be tired all you wish.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> well ... technically they are all the same family, dingoes were originally domestic dogs that were brought over and, like the mustangs of the west, went wild.
> 
> I think what he is saying is they are in the same base family, the same way domestic horses, zebras, and donkeys/burros are in the same base family.
> 
> I guess???


Closer than that.
Same family AND same genus. Both have 78 chromosomes. Wolf-coyote species line is blurry in some places: red wolves have a lot of coyote genes. And google coydog to learn something about coyote x dog hybrids.

http://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/2011/05/12/gr.116301.110.abstract


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

i didnt attack you, i calmly disagreed. big difference.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I know that coyotes, jackals, and foxes all "bark", but wolves only "bark" when they are juveniles, but don't as adults.


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## theairedale (Jul 15, 2014)

Dog = canis lupus familiaris
Coyote = canis latrans

I think maybe the term "dog" is being used as an umbrella term meaning canids, not specifically the species that we call dogs? Maybe?


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kayota said:


> i didnt attack you, i calmly disagreed. big difference.


Feel Free to call it what ever you wish...



Kayota said:


> None of the animals you listed are dogs. Human beings and rats can eat chocolate but dogs can't. Many species eat grapes and yet they are toxic to dogs. That argument is invalid when compared to scientific vet studies.


By the way..... I am still waiting to see those "scientific vet studies" that invalidates what I said.....


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

So anyways.... 

My concern with dogs eating acorns would be that the acorns may cause obstruction or if they're rigid they could cut up their insides - this isn't from personal experience, but I remember a post recently where an owner had their dog into the vet for surgery because of acorns. 

I'm certain Toby has eaten acorns though, and nothing's come of it. I had no idea they were considered toxic.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

BostonBullMama said:


> So anyways....
> 
> My concern with dogs eating acorns would be that the acorns may cause obstruction or if they're rigid they could cut up their insides - this isn't from personal experience, but I remember a post recently where an owner had their dog into the vet for surgery because of acorns.
> 
> I'm certain Toby has eaten acorns though, and nothing's come of it. I had no idea they were considered toxic.


Unless the dog was small and swallowed acorns whole, I would not have concerns about an obstruction. 

As for the rigidity causing internal injury, The hull of the acorn is going to be much more pliable than bone, and dogs handle raw bone well.. .


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

theairedale said:


> Dog = canis lupus familiaris
> Coyote = canis latrans
> 
> I think maybe the term "dog" is being used as an umbrella term meaning canids, not specifically the species that we call dogs? Maybe?


Coyote classification is actually a huge mess that belies the tidy scientific name, and only gets murkier the more genetic studies are done.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Kayota said:


> I was referring to what Amaryllis posted without having looked at it. My mistake.


I assumed Amaryllis was posting a study and didn't look at the link, as I already said.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kayota said:


> I assumed Amaryllis was posting a study and didn't look at the link, as I already said.


Yea I caught that when it happened.... You were so EAGER to jump on me, you did not bother to check things out before you posted......

This is ALL on you....


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

No, I was eager to keep someone's dogs from being poisoned. I don't seek to "jump on" people and start fights.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kayota said:


> No, I was eager to keep someone's dogs from being poisoned. I don't seek to "jump on" people and start fights.



Could have fooled me.....

As for keeping someone's dog from being poisoned.... I DID suggest she talk to her local vet..... But the fact that many animals INCLUDING coyotes (which ARE dogs) eat and utilize acorns.... Combined with the fact, there is NO data that acorns cause any risk to dogs... And the fact that aside from the fact that you cannot find a hard account of a sick dog from acorns, acorns posed no risk to the OPs dogs.....

TWIST it ANY way you like it.... I know exactly what you were doing.....


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