# Caucasian Ovtcharka



## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

Ever since I got Elka (now 2 years old, husky mix) my intention was to add a second dog once she hit around 2 years old and was trained to my liking.

Well we've hit that point. I go back and forth a lot on the breeds I want or getting another rescue. I foster for a golden retriever rescue and thought I might fall in love with one of them but that hasn't happened.

I've been looking at Tamaskans, Shiloh Shepherds, rotties, a variety of other dogs. Seems every time I go to the dog park I fall in love with a new breed.

A few weeks ago, however, I discovered the Caucasian Ovtcharka. I love the flock guardians: pyrs and maremmas especially, but hadn't yet discovered the Caucasians. I've been feverishly reading up on them; they're not all that common state-side, it seems.

I'm looking for real world experience with these dogs as non-working dogs; ie: I do not have a flock for them to guard. From what I'm reading they may actually be a viable pet as opposed to working dog. 

I'm very reserved on this; I do not have the means to give a flock guardian a job guarding a flock. But I love the protective nature, and I just am totally in love with their looks and the temperament as has been described in the resources I've found. 

The dog would get near constant interaction and its job would be companion and house-guard (Elka won't even bark at someone, sigh). 

So in brief: does anyone have experience with this breed as a house-dog or other comments?

Thanks!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

The only thing I can tell you is they require a LOT and CONSTANT socialization.

They are one of only 3 breeds I am extremely wary of.


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

What are the other two?

In my reading I hadn't come across that they'd been used for dog fighting, I've now spent the time since i posted originally reading about that, as well as a controversial spot on Nat'l Geographic on 2007. I'm sure you can see by my list of possible dogs that I'm not put off by dogs with what some may consider a bad rep (shepherds, rotties); but before I posted this I was not aware that caucasians were amongst those.

Obviously finding the right, ethical breeder with excellent temperaments in the parents and some seriously ongoing socialization would be the highest priority. 

Right now a decision hasn't been made about what dog, I'm just kind of exploring this. They're amazing dogs and the good things I've read about them are really good. Disheartening to find out about the bad, but that's part of due diligence, eh? Better to know now....


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I would have to say that even as a dog person, I will admit I am a bit nervous around a CO. I know very little about them on a personal basis except that they are beautiful and they scare me.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

This is why they scare me....and please keep in mind I own Shepherds and HAVE participated in bite sports:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjXIoCIAVQI&feature=related

The other two breeds are the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and the Shar Pei


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

That video link isn't working. I've seen some of the YouTube videos, they do look ferocious and they're big and very strong. 

I understand the Shar Pei thing. I was in a class with a Shar Pei that was apparently well socialized, hit teenage years and turned into a dog and person aggressive terror. We had to be very careful around him, I almost dropped the class because I was uncomfortable about the situation (was a Control Unleashed class).

I haven't even heard of the WPG, but going by context they have similar issues.

Perhaps the CO is not a great choice, then. More of a "admire from afar" type of dog.

Would still be interested in hearing any positive experiences with them! Or personal not-so-positive experiences. Am I on the wrong track for my house-hold in considering a CO?

And again, thanks all!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I edited the link, so it should work now.

The big thing is that the Ovcharka is a highly defensive dog as a general whole, and one must work to make sure the dog does not feel threatened.

Certainly it is a right breed for SOME people, or they wouldn't exist, but I don't see them gaining popularity any time soon (I hope not anyway, for the sake of all involved).

If she would be open to it, I do know of a woman that owns an Ovcharka (She also owns GSDs) and maybe I could give you her e-mail to discuss the breed with her.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

I hear that Ovtcharkas bond to it's family (or flock) only, and are _not_ sociable to those outside it. They are not family dogs -- they are guardians, and their temperaments are probably not compatible with the vast majority of people.


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

Sure Xeph, I'd like that. I'll drop you a PM with my email. As I mentioned this is all preliminary, other than happening into some breeder's sites while researching I haven't even ventured in that whole arena yet.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Everything is preliminary of course, but everything is also research, and you're doing very well by your family (and the dog) to study


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

Well, I am looking for a dog with some protective instincts (not a protection-trained dog, mind you). I'm single and live alone with a husky mix who won't even bark. She was supposed to be a GSD but the shelter was wrong. 

But as I research this more the CO may be a little bit over-the-top for my needs. I'd sure feel safe with one, but it looks like they might make family-visiting a little bit (heh) more of an obstacle.

Still, they're stunning dogs. That video is really something.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Why not just consider a GSD, Rottie, or Dobie? Or, if you think you can handle something a little more high octane (but not as adversarial and daunting as the CO), a Beauceron?


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

Rotties and GSDs (though I do prefer the Shiloh line from my reading) are very, very high on my list. Elka won't play with GSDs though - she just pretends they don't exist. She's a very dog social dog and I'd like her to have a playmate out of this as well. Perhaps raised with the GSD would be different.

I've always wanted a Rottie so they're high up on the list. Very high up on the list.

I love fluffy dogs, though. Also my first dog was an elkhound and the CO reminded me of an elkhound, but bigger and more protective (rather than just a loudmouth like mine was).

I've seen the Beauceron before - I don't really like their looks. They look, to me, like a bad cross between a dobie and a rottie. I don't know, something about them doesn't do it for me.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

My own GSD isn't a "dog" dog, and I'm ok with that. He's really not into playing with other dogs. He'd rather play with people. A dog that doesn't play with other dogs isn't an inherently bad thing.

I can promise you a CO is NOTHING like an Elkhound!

Don't feel bad about the Beau...they don't attract me either.

And a Shiloh is highly unlikely to protect...they were bred to be specifically mellow and LESS protective.


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

If I didn't have Elka I'd be ok with a dog that was less interested in other dogs. But given Elka's tendencies I'd like someone that she can wrestle with on occasion. I think that the GSD's are too serious for her; but maybe I should be focusing on what I want and just make sure that they can get along if not be bestest buds in the whole wide world.

Though I do think that if the GSD was raised with Elka, from when the GSD was a pup, that the bonding would be much better. Maybe.

Oh, and I know the CO is nothing like an elkhound - I think it was the amount of fur and coloration of the ones I saw that had that association for me. Temperament definitely not.

Hrm, so noted about Shilohs, I hadn't researched them in about a year and didn't remember reading that.

So GSD or Rottie goes right back to the top of the list again.

Thank you again, so much, for all of the help! Perhaps I should just wait until after Christmas, lord knows the shelters will be full of "christmas puppies", and I could likely rescue a young pup of a breed with the tendencies that I enjoy.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I will say that while you SHOULD consider what your dog will get along with (to keep harmony in the house) what is most important (IMO) is YOUR bond and overall connection with the dog, because Elka will not feed, water, and shelter it.

My GSD shares the house with a Labrador, and while the Labrador wants to play with him, the GSD is completely indifferent...the Lab just finds somebody else to play with instead.

Have you looked into the various lines of the GSD (AmShow lines, German Show lines, DDR/Czech Working lines, etc)?


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

No, I haven't. I will admit that one of my concerns with a GSD is that this will *not* be a working dog. Oh, they're going to get a ton of training because I love that bonding. They'll get a lot of play time and they'll get walks - but I lead a fairly sedentary lifestyle and a working line GSD would not be a good fit.

I also have serious concerns about the American show-lines and some of what I've read that their health may have been compromised by the desire to have the best "show dog". I don't give a rat's, uh, anything about a show line dog. I want a sturdy, healthy dog. Preferably with long hair, but if I went rottweiler I could deal with the short hair.

I am worried about ending up with a very "drive-y" dog.

I love GSDs, and I actually have one but she bonded more closely with my mother (who is in NY) and when I came out to Oregon I left Hannah (the GSD) with mom; separating them would have been far too traumatic for both.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I also have serious concerns about the American show-lines and some of what I've read that their health may have been compromised by the desire to have the best "show dog".


The GSD has serious health issues as a whole.

A lower drive/activity working line could actually suit you well as long as you're willing to put in the work. Working line does not equal hyper (ask Equinox). They should be stable and calm when not active, not bouncing off the walls.

Strauss is a showline cross, and yes, he can get a little stir crazy if he goes 2-3 days sans exercise, but it won't kill him not to go out for a run/work EVERY day. He just sleeps instead 

Strauss is extremely drivey and intense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snRygZGBja0

But he is also perfectly capable of settling in the house too:


















BTW there is a FANTASTIC breeder in Oregon. She has American show lines but they can WORK!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Spicy has an Ovcharka. you could pm her.


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## Lucillle (Dec 31, 2008)

GSDs are fine, fine dogs. Bred to have the very qualities you seek. And a pup would be more easily welcomed by your existing dog.

I envy you if you go that route, a GSD pup is a smart little handful.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

My experiences on the whole have been positive. It all depends what exactly you want to hear? 

They are protective with a defense drive that makes them a good choice for a guard dog. They bond very close to their family, don't need a flock, family will be it. They are not just flock guardians either, these dogs are heavily used by the Russians as well (Ovcharka is actually a Russian word), there are varying types. Not everyone I know with one has a flock of anything. My friend has no animal flock but the dog is fine the people/other dogs are her charges. They have a tendency to stick close to home and their people, I wouldn't call them velcro dogs but they are good at shadowing/watching. IMO they don't require a lot of exercise but they do like to get out and walk and they will certainly have a good run and burn some energy if need be but are not the go, go high endurance type. Mostly lay around. They are affectionate in their own way, some at least, basically not the spaz type like some other breeds. Which I appreciate.

Honestly I never mind sharing info about any breed but if I know more of what the person wants to know about I can be more helpful.


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

Why are you afraid of wire haired pointing griffons? I thought they were a benign sporting breed. I've met a few, and they've just been normal, friendly dogs. Do share!

The only breeds I am afraid of are Akitas and Shar Pei. Never met an Akita that didn't have a screw loose.

To the OP, if you want fluffy, there are long haired German Shepherds. I have one of largely working lines, and he's not at all hyper. He is a super mellow guy.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

If you're interested in the CO "look" but don't want a dog in your house that's a serious liability.... what about a CAS? Still a very serious dog, but in my opinion far more reliable and level headed.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Curious on that note about the Cas? I'm not sure what more reliable means either? I see both as a potential liability. 

The ones I've met I've liked and they are similar to CS. I almost bought one over the summer. 

I do know CAS vary by breed and region. The drawback for some people would be the cold to hot temperament sometimes displayed. The potential in some for DA means you should research where your dog is coming from. Because of some lines being developed for fighting. One aspect I find interesting is the herding type behavior, makes them better for more than just an LGD.

As for looks in the CAS the vast majority is short coat, though some have a similar structure and head as CS has been bred into some and they have similar origins of course. Though the CS does have short coat type the most popular here is long, full coat. I'd really like a short coat myself but what draws many people is the beautiful full coat.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

A lady in the neighborhood has a Caucasian Ovtcharka that she adopted as an adult. On the first few days she had her dog, we met and her dog was a very sweet, mellow dog that wagged her tail at my puppy and tolerated his sniffing.

I met her again a few months later, and had a tough time being close to her. If I walked too close, her dog began to bark, and when my own dog went over to greet her (ears laid back and tail wagging in a "respectful" manner), she lifted her lip and growled. I was able to have a conversation with her, but if Trent (my dog) got too close, she'd let out a warning growl. As we continued talking, the large dog ended up stepping on top of her owner's feet with her paws and inching as close to her owner as she could, clearly uncomfortable with the situation. Needless to say, I didn't linger too long.

On the other hand, her dog was clearly very well behaved and obedient, growling and guarding behaviors aside. As long as we kept our distance, the dog was perfectly fine.

There are plenty of excellent German shepherd breeders here in Oregon, many of whom I have spoken to and/or visited. Whether you want long coats or stock coats, German show lines or German working lines or American show lines, there will be a breeder I can recommend around here.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Why are you afraid of wire haired pointing griffons? I thought they were a benign sporting breed. I've met a few, and they've just been normal, friendly dogs. Do share!


Well, the one that tried to attack Strauss soured me on them. I've also been nearly bitten by a couple others.

There is a member of our KC that has Akitas, and while I wouldn't let them near my dogs (and the handlers wouldn't either) they are EXTREMELY people friendly and I'm not afraid to work with one of the owner's dogs.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Hi,

I am new here, I got stoked when I saw a thread about one of my favorite breeds (the CO), so I cannot help myself from join in on this discussion. 

My wife and I own 3 CO ranging in age from 3 years - 6 months. Our CO are working dogs (well the 2 adults are), our male is outside 24/7 protecting our property while our female is out during the day but put up at night (she LOVES to bark). Our 6 month old female is still transitioning to our home, we are not sure if she will have a guardian role or not - she may just hang with us in the house... She is very mellow and sweet. The temperament range int he breed can be rather surprising, and frustrating.

You have already gotten a lot of good advice, I dunno how much I can add. I think the short answer to your over-all questions is that you need to be very select in the lines you choose if you go with a CO. Some lines are sharper than others; some are sharper toward dogs, some toward people, some toward everything. A proper CO should not be overly aggressive and should be temperamentally "balanced" - but the breed is a guardian and does represent a rather high degree of liability. Our CO do GREAT with out other dogs, but I know some of the older lines can be VERY dog aggressive.

As "Spicy1_VV" indicated, I too am happy to answer any specific questions you may have. We also own a Cane Corso and Akita, so I can speak to the differences between them as well - if you are interested.

I can also share some videos of my CO "working" (guarding), if you like... They are not amazing videos, but they do show them working in a real-world situation (not some crazed dog freaking out at the end of a leash).

Off the top of my head, a few things you may want to consider with this breed...

1 - When they get wet they SMELL. I mean, they really have a different odor when they get wet. Based on your location, that may be something you want to consider.

2 - Some CO tend to bark a lot. Our male doesn't, but when he does it shakes the earth. Our female will bark at the wind - she LOVES to bark. She just has a lot to say, about everything, and nothing.

3 - Even with a huge amount of socialization, your CO may not accept strangers into your home. This means you will need a very secure place to "lock them down". Really, this, IMHO, is a good rule to have with any guardian breed.

4 - They really do get large. Our male has actually knocked over our couch before.

5 - They eat a LOT... err, at least ours do. Our adult male eats 10 cups of food a day! Our adult female eats 6-8 cups a day. Our male is 30" and 130# and our female is 28" and 100lb. Ours are very active tho, so that increases their caloric intake. (we feed them Acana)

I hope that helps.

If you like the look of the CO, you may also want to look at the Leonberger or the Tibetan Mastiff. The Leo will be a lot less liability, while the TM will still be a good guardian but not as much as the CO.

Good luck! 

----


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

The only one i ever met, gave me the scars i have today, I was 7 and at a friends house who had an 8 month old female CO, I was sitting on the lounge and the dog came over and started smelling me, the owners like, it's ok she loves kids, I was used to dogs and idn't mind until the damn thing latched onto my foot and mauled it. 

If you want a good devoted protective canine without the years of stress and worry, go for a CC they're just as protective and dedicated, but lack that worrisome edge, that the CO's have


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

GSDGAL said:


> go for a CC they're just as protective and dedicated, but lack that worrisome edge, that the CO's have


Couldn't agree more! I am simply in love with that breed since we got Blue, our male CC. He is wonderful and a serious guardian when needed - but you can call him off with very little effort. And what a love bug, he is so loving and sweet.

I love our CO, but I find my self recommending the CC to people all the time while I rarely recommend a CO. A CO fills a very small niche, IMHO. Very few people have the right situation for a CO.


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

Some of the abbreviations here are baffling, I got to admit. I get CO of course, but CAS and CC?

I did find some Oregon breeders, it's hard to figure out who is good based on their websites, but at least they're in driving distance. I would love to take any suggestions.

I really love the COs and there are definitely some positive experiences here; but I do worry about the lines and I *definitely* worry about the liability. The idea of having my dog removed, even if they're a perfect angel, simply because of breed is a huge negative for me.

But the comments from their owners, especially in this thread, really intrigue me. Still, maybe right now a breed I'm more familiar with, and with a higher general acceptance level, would be "safer".

Oh, and I'm in Oregon, so a dog that stinks when wet... that's something to consider for sure.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Namrah said:


> Some of the abbreviations here are baffling, I got to admit. I get CO of course, but CAS and CC?
> 
> I did find some Oregon breeders, it's hard to figure out who is good based on their websites, but at least they're in driving distance. I would love to take any suggestions.
> 
> ...


CAS is Central Asian Shepherd, these breeds are of central asia and similar to the CO. You can check out Tobet (of Kazhstan) or Gampr (from Armenia also region where Caucasian Shepherd develop hence the name).

CC is Cane Corso

BSL does include many breeds if you are looking at that angle. Most of any of the Guardian breeds like from a GSD to a CC to a Rott to a CO and many others.


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

Meh, BSL. There's a lot of Rotts, GSDs, and Pits here in Oregon, so it's not a huge concern for me. I'm more worried about the rarer breeds (like the CO) that have a bad rep.

The COs are incredible dogs, it seems, but even with the positives I'm reading I am thinking that they may not be the best next dog, but perhaps a future dog.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Equinox said:


> I met her again a few months later, and had a tough time being close to her. If I walked too close, her dog began to bark, and when my own dog went over to greet her (ears laid back and tail wagging in a "respectful" manner), she lifted her lip and growled. I was able to have a conversation with her, but if Trent (my dog) got too close, she'd let out a warning growl. As we continued talking, the large dog ended up stepping on top of her owner's feet with her paws and inching as close to her owner as she could, clearly uncomfortable with the situation. Needless to say, I didn't linger too long.


Seeing this mentioned goes back to talking about both CAS and CS. As far as the temperament I've seen it go either way in both. Either which will be fine to be pet by a stranger or not let someone near their owner, they must keep a certain distance and away from the dog/owner.



Namrah said:


> Meh, BSL. There's a lot of Rotts, GSDs, and Pits here in Oregon, so it's not a huge concern for me. I'm more worried about the rarer breeds (like the CO) that have a bad rep.
> 
> The COs are incredible dogs, it seems, but even with the positives I'm reading I am thinking that they may not be the best next dog, but perhaps a future dog.


I find that odd, it is backwards, what I mean is it is the popular breeds who are more likely to get in trouble and the ones usually banned first. (Pits being banned basically set the standard that breeds could be banned in the first place) It is only just now that these people are "wising up" that they are starting to add rare breeds to BSL. It is far more likely a Pit or Rott will be banned before a rare breed or rather than a rare breed. Certainly highly likely to be black listed on insurance. (wise up in "" as banning isn't wise IMO, but you know what I mean). Most people I meet never even heard of a CO, including the local politicians and ones who want BSL. They've been fighting to ban Pits, it's been proposed, same with town about 30 mins from me had it proposed and lost too, but another does have Pits banned. Cane Corso are one that is started to be banned because they are getting popular/heard of.

I try to keep up with BSL abroad and Oregon doesn't seem to have a lot. 

The Malheur County ban includes rare breeds but Pits (AST, SBT, APBT) and American Bulldogs too. 

Most rare breeds don't have a bad rep, I think being rare is in their favor. For is some were popular it'd be terrible. Though I find some of the rare breeds to need a lot of responsibility and be a bigger potential danger than Pits. Kind of ironic.


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

I was thinking more that with BSL if it's a popular breed there are more people to fight it, whereas with a rare breed - especially a rare breed portrayed so badly in popular media (ie, Nat'l Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EujeBI2edis)

That's where my logic was, faulty or otherwise.

Edit to add: watching the socializing process portion of that spot makes me want one even more. =)


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

GSDGAL said:


> The only one i ever met, gave me the scars i have today, I was 7 and at a friends house who had an 8 month old female CO, I was sitting on the lounge and the dog came over and started smelling me, the owners like, it's ok she loves kids, I was used to dogs and idn't mind until the damn thing latched onto my foot and mauled it.
> 
> If you want a good devoted protective canine without the years of stress and worry, go for a CC they're just as protective and dedicated, but lack that worrisome edge, that the CO's have


I'm sorry to hear that.  Though there are unstable dogs in probably every breed. This isn't much different than other unprovoked attack stories by many different breeds. I know several with Chows and had my own personal incident. Surely not all Chows are aggressive or attack out of the blue. 

I think CC is very good choice too. I've seen plenty of negative said about them, even posted here. Been in a few threads how others have seen them out of control and very aggressive or that they are DA. There are some with temperament issues but it is up to the person to find the right CC for them. Fear and fear aggression are something to steer clear of. While I love CC I don't find a CO to be "years of stress and worry" maybe that is a biased statement due to being attacked by one because I can't understand it at all. 

I also find things I like in both that are different. My CC silliness makes me laugh though sometimes it is a bit much. My CO laid back and relaxed is much appreciated but other times I need the laugh.



Namrah said:


> I was thinking more that with BSL if it's a popular breed there are more people to fight it, whereas with a rare breed - especially a rare breed portrayed so badly in popular media (ie, Nat'l Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EujeBI2edis)
> 
> That's where my logic was, faulty or otherwise.
> 
> Edit to add: watching the socializing process portion of that spot makes me want one even more. =)


Oh I see. Sadly doesn't work that way. Usually more bad owners have them and also owners which do nothing at all positive or fight. Many cities with a lot of them have bans or have had them proposed.

My friends (husband/wife couple) was basically the ONLY ones fighting against it in their town. It is the same everywhere, even when you personally know other people with Pits they don't seem to care (not all are bad owners either, but they don't do anything). I hear the same of friends across the country. If there are a 1000 Pit owners there still might be only 2 at the meeting. With rare breeds you have the same owners of Pits backing their side, at least from what I've seen. Since Pit owners are at the front lines they are against all banning of any breeds. I've recently noticed a lot of CC owners also becoming more aware and they are jumping in though which is very much needed.

Yes the NatGeo thing was damaging to the breed a bit. It was also upsetting to owners for them to be put in such a negative light. Good and bad dogs and owners in every breed. The guy makes an excuse that his CO is so big, strong, driven all that crap instead of training and socializing. I know that genetics plays a big role in breeds and of course a defense driven breed will be defensive but does that mean we do nothing and leave the dog to become out of control? HIS dog is a liability, like an accident waiting to happen as are other such dogs regardless of breed.



BradA1878 said:


> 4 - They really do get large. Our male has actually knocked over our couch before.


My female has done that @ 35lbs so I don't think it is just a large dog thing. 

Anyway BEAUTIFUL DOGS you have.

Is the kennel yours as well? The link on your page. I really love Kai Ken but they are very rare it seems.


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## Sonn84 (Mar 29, 2008)

My grandpa brought a Caucasian Ovtcharka from Russia when I was very young (around 2-3). He socialized this puppy to death it loved everyone that it met. But as he got older he got more and more protective of us especially me since I clung to him all day everyday. 

If a stranger came to the house he would bark snarl bare his teeth everything but once they were inside he was fine. UNLESS my grandpa looked or acted upset then he would go into a full blown frenzy and only my grandpa could calm him down. 

But he was a great dog never offered to bite any of us or any other dogs. He lived until a little after his 12th birthday. 

I have met 4 others one was extremely aggressive to everyone but his owner so much so he had to wear a muzzle no matter where he went and had to be sedated during vet visits. 

The other 3 were wary of strangers and would bark unless the owner showed them the person was not there to hurt them or their family then they would just basically ignore you.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

> I think CC is very good choice too. I've seen plenty of negative said about them, even posted here. Been in a few threads how others have seen them out of control and very aggressive or that they are DA. There are some with temperament issues but it is up to the person to find the right CC for them. Fear and fear aggression are something to steer clear of.


I totally agree with this statement. It is up to the puppy buyer to find the breeder with the best temperament for the buyers situation. This applies to both the Cane Corso and the Caucasian Ovcharka.

In the Cane Corso, there can be a huge swing in temperament - everything from a complete mush to an extremely hard/sharp dog. We selected a kennel that focused on "working" dogs, and with that came all the fun of owning a high-drive defensive mastiff, but we wanted him for protection work and so we went that route.

Having said that, Blue is mos def less defensive than our CO - but he is also always "on" - does not matter if he is on property or off... while our CO kinda "turn off" when they are off property. They will guard our car and our house, but they take a few days to start guarding a new location - so they can be walked in public with little issues (using common sense, of course... no petting from strangers!).

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> My female has done that @ 35lbs so I don't think it is just a large dog thing.


LOL, well that is very impressive. 



> Anyway BEAUTIFUL DOGS you have.
> 
> Is the kennel yours as well? The link on your page. I really love Kai Ken but they are very rare it seems.


Thank you!

Yes, that is our kennel, it's a very small project but we have put all of our heart into it. Kai are really neat dogs, they are almost like owning a wild animal - so primitive - almost feral at times.

If you don't mind me asking, I noticed you have a link to SABs and Kangals... Do you have any representatives of those breeds? 

I recently met a few SABs, I loved them. I also helped find a rescue a home, which I was super stoked about.

The Kangal is cool too, I looked into those before we got our COs... also the CAO, I like them as well. I looked at CAOs instead of CCs, but went with the CC due to their willingness to please, size (smaller), and their tendency not to roam (as much).

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your CC? Ours is from Amore Cane Corso.


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## RubyLove (May 4, 2009)

I have never seen a Caucasian Ovcharka in real life and had never looked into them before this thread... so, Google image search... is it just those pictures, or do they look like lions? And in other pictures they look somewhere between a lion and a bear... I am not surprised people are scared of them if so!


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## losinsusan (Nov 20, 2009)

After reading this thread, my first thought was, cool looking dog, but I was glad I don't live next store to you! I want to be sure that people who own certain breeds of dogs are the right owners. Experienced, responsible owners who understand the liability of their choice so that when i am strolling by your house walking my soft by nature sporting breed, we don't get attacked if we pass by your property. I totally understand needing or wanted a guard dog. But if I lived in a suburban setting with children around, I want to be sure that the owners of guardian breeds keep their dogs under control. It has gotten to be where I am afraid to walk my dog in the neighborhood because of less than responsible owners who's dog happen to get out unleashed and feel the need to protect the propery when I am walking by. I do not feel banning breeds is right. So please don't blast my honesty. But please consider your choice if you have children coming over to play often, who might also be at risk. I don't want a dog I have to lock up because Uncle Henry popped over for a quick visit. My other thought was that is what guns are for if you feel you need your home protected. A locked up gun is a safer alternative for us. I guess I will get blasted for this comment!


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

losinsusan said:


> After reading this thread, my first thought was, cool looking dog, but I was glad I don't live next store to you!


Not sure what thats all about because nobody here who owns the breed has said their dogs are out of control but only the dogs can be a liability and im sure that is meant if the dogs are owned by the wrong people,both the CO and CAS are not for the inexperienced owner.

Anyway ive read up loads on the CAS and it will more than likely be my next breed (for me the main difference in my choice is the coat because im not into heavy grooming)

My dream dog


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

I had a friend who has since passed away that kept both a CO & a CAO...We would often have the argument about whether or not I could handle her dogs...She said I was one of the few people she would trust with them...I insisted I couldn't handle them...& this coming from someone who has 4 well trained Pyrs & most recent dog is a 4 yr. old Akbash/Maremma cross who never spent a day out of the pasture in his life until he came here...My friend & I finally agreed that it wasn't that I couldn't handle them it's more that I didn't want the responsibility or the possible liability of keeping them!
Ovcharkas are a dog that you don't fit into your life...They are a dog that you rearrange your life for...They are not for the novice or casual dog owner...Though incredible & magnificent souls they just aren't the dog for everyone!
They are one of the hardest if not THE hardest tempered LGD breed which imo means that they make no better of guardian than the other LGD breeds but just that they are just less trustworthy with people in general.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

BradA1878 said:


> Having said that, Blue is mos def less defensive than our CO - but he is also always "on" - does not matter if he is on property or off... *while our CO kinda "turn off" when they are off property.* They will guard our car and our house, but they take a few days to start guarding a new location - so they can be walked in public with little issues (using common sense, of course... no petting from strangers!).


Same here!



> LOL, well that is very impressive.


She was something of a high energy nut when younger, still very active/drivey but has calmed down to a point and maintains better focus. 



> Yes, that is our kennel, it's a very small project but we have put all of our heart into it. Kai are really neat dogs, they are almost like owning a wild animal - so primitive - almost feral at times.


I've had them on my possible future list for awhile, though it'd likely be way down the road if ever. They seem like a very neat breed. They have that primitive look about them. 



> If you don't mind me asking, I noticed you have a link to SABs and Kangals... Do you have any representatives of those breeds?
> 
> I recently met a few SABs, I loved them. I also helped find a rescue a home, which I was super stoked about.
> 
> The Kangal is cool too, I looked into those before we got our COs... also the CAO, I like them as well. I looked at CAOs instead of CCs, but went with the CC due to their willingness to please, size (smaller), and their tendency not to roam (as much).


Yes. I like the Kangal a lot, but my SO is the one which really wanted Kangal before CAS. I will likely wait until we are moved and settled to look more into CAS. I still want to meet more breeders. 

That is great with the rescue! 

Oh yeah a lot less roaming issues. I was told CAS are similar to Kangals in wanting to roam more and possible escapes wondering off, making their own large territories if given the chance. 



> If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your CC? Ours is from Amore Cane Corso.


PMd you


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Welcome to Brad! Hope you stay around awhile! It's AWESOME to have another Ovtcharka owner around to share some knowledge!


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

losinsusan said:


> After reading this thread, my first thought was, cool looking dog, but I was glad I don't live next store to you! I want to be sure that people who own certain breeds of dogs are the right owners. Experienced, responsible owners who understand the liability of their choice so that when i am strolling by your house walking my soft by nature sporting breed, we don't get attacked if we pass by your property. I totally understand needing or wanted a guard dog. But if I lived in a suburban setting with children around, I want to be sure that the owners of guardian breeds keep their dogs under control. It has gotten to be where I am afraid to walk my dog in the neighborhood because of less than responsible owners who's dog happen to get out unleashed and feel the need to protect the propery when I am walking by. I do not feel banning breeds is right. So please don't blast my honesty. But please consider your choice if you have children coming over to play often, who might also be at risk. I don't want a dog I have to lock up because Uncle Henry popped over for a quick visit. My other thought was that is what guns are for if you feel you need your home protected. A locked up gun is a safer alternative for us. I guess I will get blasted for this comment!


No bashing here. I know what you are trying to say and agree. People should be responsible with whatever dog they chose. Though i wouldn't jump to the assumption that anyone here doesn't control their dog because it is a certain breed or whatever in saying that you're glad not to be a neighbor. 

I've dealt with plenty of loose dogs, some aggressive. I know it is a pain and can be a worry. 

A gun can't sit out and protect a herd or flock at night. Though I'm all for guns as well, but they also need to be owned and handled responsibly. A gun can't decide to load and shoot itself but people can be very irresponsible and dangerous with them just like dogs.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

losinsusan said:


> After reading this thread, my first thought was, cool looking dog, but I was glad I don't live next store to you! I want to be sure that people who own certain breeds of dogs are the right owners. [...] *But please consider your choice if you have children coming over to play often, who might also be at risk.* [...] My other thought was that is what guns are for if you feel you need your home protected. A locked up gun is a safer alternative for us. I guess I will get blasted for this comment!


I see your point as well, and I agree with it. A CO can be a GREAT companion of children, but it's their friends that are the issue - this is true with any guardian breed, but w/ the CO's natural (higher-than-average) defensiveness it's something you really have to consider.

The gun thing came up a lot for me, lots of people suggested it to me for our predator issues here...

When we moved out here I didn't even consider having a predator issue, then the Coyotes started coming around, followed by the roaming dogs, and then the occasional Mountain Lion. All of these I could pretty much have fired a few round in the air and scared them off - and I would know when they were around (our dogs would be pretty loud in that situation).

Then the Eagles started to show up. I got lucky a few times and was able to scare them off as they tried to get a few of our smaller dogs, but it really freaked me out. I would need to be out 24/7 with my gun to scare Eagles off! They can just show up, out of nowhere, the dogs don't see them coming either - and they are HUGE Golden Eagle (they nest in Taos Gorge - 1 mile from our home)...

That is when I decided I needed an LGD on the job 24/7, and I went with the Ovcharka because of their natural aggression toward large birds.

Since Luytiy and Masha are on the scene we rarely see predictors of any kind.

For us tho, it is extremely rare we have any one walking around our area, so we don't have the same issues one might have in a less-reclusive location.



Mr Pooch said:


> Anyway ive read up loads on the CAS and it will more than likely be my next breed (for me the main difference in my choice is the coat because im not into heavy grooming)


Good choice, I really like the CAO. The grooming on our CO is not bad either, but we have shorter coated CO (brush coat):



















PS: I know the dog in the pic you posted - let me know if you want the breeder's name.



Xeph said:


> Welcome to Brad! Hope you stay around awhile! It's AWESOME to have another Ovtcharka owner around to share some knowledge!


Thank you! I'm happy to have found this place.  I appreciate the warm welcoming.


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

Well, I'm not getting a gun and I am very much anti-gun. I wouldn't have a gun, even locked up, around children.

I also don't like children so the chances of any coming over to my property are nil.

But that's neither here nor there, I was more interested in owner experiences with the Ovcharka as a companion that also has a strong guarding instinct. I've now read those - thank you to all for your responses.

At this point I feel the thread has gone way overboard (seriously, recommending a gun went way over my threshold) so I likely won't participate anymore.

Thank you again to all for the helpful information and responses!


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Spicy1_VV said:


> Oh yeah a lot less roaming issues. I was told CAS are similar to Kangals in wanting to roam more and possible escapes wondering off, making their own large territories if given the chance.


Haha... We used to have a 6' fence all the way around our property, now we have 8' "Coyote Fence" on half and 7' horse fence with electric on the rest... why? Because Luytiy figured out pretty quickly he could jump a 6 foot fence w/ no problem! 

Now I dunno if it's Luytiy of the fence that actually keeps the predators out. LOL


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> this is true with any guardian breed, *but w/ the CO's natural (higher-than-average) defensiveness* it's something you really have to consider.


I'm glad I wasn't mistaken in reading the body language of the (many many) Ovcharkas I see in the protection vids and the like. I was reading a highly defensive dog (not fear). Always good to know I'm not just seeing things!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

BradA1878 said:


> Then the Eagles started to show up. I got lucky a few times and was able to scare them off as they tried to get a few of our smaller dogs, but it really freaked me out. I would need to be out 24/7 with my gun to scare Eagles off! They can just show up, out of nowhere, the dogs don't see them coming either - and they are HUGE Golden Eagle (they nest in Taos Gorge - 1 mile from our home)...
> 
> That is when I decided I needed an LGD on the job 24/7, and I went with the Ovcharka because of their natural aggression toward large birds.


Just a totally OT question....if your dogs kill an eagle (because it sounds like that's what you're aiming for), do you get in as big of trouble as you would if YOU killed the eagle? I know every year around here some yahoo decides it would be a good idea to shoot an eagle, and they get in really BIG trouble with the federal wildlife people. I wonder if the feds get all out of joint if it's a dog that does the killing. Though of course I know the policy in rural areas----"shoot, shovel, and shut up"  .


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I don't think Golden Eagles are protected under law, are they? I thought it was just Baldies.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> I don't think Golden Eagles are protected under law, are they? I thought it was just Baldies.


ALL birds of prey----eagles, hawks, owls, etc. are legally protected. Bald Eagles were on the Endangered Species list, not anymore. But there's a Raptor Protection Act (or something like that) that puts all raptors under federal protection.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Learn something new everyday.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Willowy said:


> Just a totally OT question....if your dogs kill an eagle (because it sounds like that's what you're aiming for), do you get in as big of trouble as you would if YOU killed the eagle? I know every year around here some yahoo decides it would be a good idea to shoot an eagle, and they get in really BIG trouble with the federal wildlife people. I wonder if the feds get all out of joint if it's a dog that does the killing. Though of course I know the policy in rural areas----"shoot, shovel, and shut up"  .


Yea, if they killed one that would probably be an issue... but that is not really my goal with my LGD, I want them to scare off threats not engage them.

Actually, LGD's M.O. (in general) is "shock and awe" or "bark and bluff" and not so much bite/engage (like a PP dog's M.O. might be). If a working LGD engaged every (potential) threat while on the job they wouldn't last very long.

I want my COs to scare things away not hurt them. (I'm not really into killing anything, TBQH)

Off topic, but still on point with what I just wrote, if you are ever being "warned" by an LGD, the best thing you can do is just turn around and walk away - 99% of the time an LGD just wants you to go away.


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## mvk (Jan 24, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EujeBI2edis)

The fellow at the end of this vidio didn't look like he had control of that dog, whats everyone think. 

Where to you think he is in as far as training that dog so as he could walk it down the street, past people, other dogs, high stress conditions

Do you think that Cesar Milan could walk up to it and walk him/her down the street.

If I was still young enough to winter camp and hike I would love to have a couple, to much for me now. I can hardly handle Rufus! He jumped a fresh deer trail the other day, on the side of a hill, nice blanket of dry leaves, he was on his 50' rope so I sat down and he pulled me a couple of hundred yards. Lots of fun.

Mike


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

mvk said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EujeBI2edis)
> 
> The fellow at the end of this vidio didn't look like he had control of that dog, whats everyone think.
> 
> ...



That guy and that dog are a disaster waiting to happen!!!!


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

BradA1878 said:


> I see your point as well, and I agree with it. A CO can be a GREAT companion of children, but it's their friends that are the issue - this is true with any guardian breed, but w/ the CO's natural (higher-than-average) defensiveness it's something you really have to consider.
> 
> The gun thing came up a lot for me, lots of people suggested it to me for our predator issues here...
> 
> ...


FireFox farms? 
Dom is in the UK


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

mvk said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EujeBI2edis)
> 
> The fellow at the end of this vidio didn't look like he had control of that dog, whats everyone think.
> 
> ...


Is that breeder an accurate representation of a responsible, reputable breeder...?


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Spicy1_VV said:


> FireFox farms?
> Dom is in the UK


Yes, I think so. It is this dog, right? If so, she is from FoxFire. I like that dog too.



MonicaBH said:


> Is that breeder an accurate representation of a responsible, reputable breeder...?


No, not at all. She no longer breeds CO and left the country after this vid was made.



mvk said:


> Do you think that Cesar Milan could walk up to it and walk him/her down the street.


Look closely at that vid. Notice the UPS truck scene? The dog is going nuts at the UPS truck, but the lady with the other dog that is walking close by is not being lunged at. Seems kinda fishy, right?



mvk said:


> If I was still young enough to *winter camp and hike* I would love to have a couple, to much for me now. I can hardly handle Rufus! He jumped a fresh deer trail the other day, on the side of a hill, nice blanket of dry leaves, he was on his 50' rope so I sat down and he pulled me a couple of hundred yards. Lots of fun.


I do this with Masha, she is great. Masha and Luytiy will sleep outside our tent in the coldest conditions and just LOVE it. 

In winter time, at our home, when the temp is 15F outside, Luytiy and Masha will be sleeping in the shade! I swear they could survive an iceage - and probably enjoy it. LOL


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

I remember seeing that video on NG a few years back and i didn't know much about CO then. While i think the breeder was crap i was mainly focussed on the skinny guy with nikoli (the CO) and how that was a perfect mismatch of owner and dog that guy was obviously suffering from a huge bout of "small man syndrome" and unfortunately the breed suffered in that vid due to misrepresentation.

Brad any chance of a pic of your CC he/she looks awesome in the siggy.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Mr Pooch said:


> Brad any chance of a pic of your CC he/she looks awesome in the siggy.


Sure, but, truthfully, I "aged" him a bit in my sig. LOL

This is Blue (he is 10 months old now)...


























Thanx!


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Wow! what a dog! He is awesome and looks very regal in the 1st photo such intense eyes,in the 2nd photo where he is playing his look reminds me of Samara (Spicy1_VV CC) when she is being goofy. I really like that collar too.

Thanks for posting them.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

Mr Pooch said:


> Not sure what thats all about because nobody here who owns the breed has said their dogs are out of control but only the dogs can be a liability and im sure that is meant if the dogs are owned by the wrong people,both the CO and CAS are not for the inexperienced owner.
> 
> Anyway ive read up loads on the CAS and it will more than likely be my next breed (for me the main difference in my choice is the coat because im not into heavy grooming)
> 
> My dream dog


We are property of 2 caucasian ovtcharkas.A 2 y/o female and we just got a pup from Romania, he is 4 months old.These dogs are like a gun.Guns dont kill unless they are loaded and the trigger is pulled.These dogs need an owner who has a strong personality and time to train and socialize!!We live on Long Island,NY. Gang activity is rampid.Teens coming home from school are picked up at gunpoint by gangs and robbed.I have a 6 & 9 year old kids.I can let my children out in the fenced in yard and feel safe that they are being guarded by my COs.This breed will lay down its life to protect.It should also be known that you do not own a CO they own you.I am fine with that because I am the Alpha in my home and the dogs know it. Just my 2 cents on my experience w/breed.I would not even know about the breed if it was not 4 my brother,he got 1 from Russia.I took her because he moved from a house 2 a condo.This is a breed u can only love once u own1 and understand how it thinks. 

If my Caucasian Ovtcharka does not like u I wont either!!!


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

siobainmulcahy said:


> We are property of 2 caucasian ovtcharkas.A 2 y/o female and we just got a pup from Romania, he is 4 months old.These dogs are like a gun.Guns dont kill unless they are loaded and the trigger is pulled.These dogs need an owner who has a strong personality and time to train and socialize!!We live on Long Island,NY. Gang activity is rampid.Teens coming home from school are picked up at gunpoint by gangs and robbed.I have a 6 & 9 year old kids.I can let my children out in the fenced in yard and feel safe that they are being guarded by my COs.This breed will lay down its life to protect.It should also be known that you do not own a CO they own you.I am fine with that because I am the Alpha in my home and the dogs know it. Just my 2 cents on my experience w/breed.I would not even know about the breed if it was not 4 my brother,he got 1 from Russia.I took her because he moved from a house 2 a condo.This is a breed u can only love once u own1 and understand how it thinks.
> 
> If my Caucasian Ovtcharka does not like u I wont either!!!


GOD Bless America


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

There's actually one on Craigslist. He was posted a few months ago and now he's up there again. After discussing these guys with Brad and a few other owners I don't think I'm in the right situation for one now; but that poor guy is going the rounds. He's been tempting...

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/pet/1577406221.html

but I'm just not in the right place right now. 

Someone that is capable of giving this boy a stable, appropriate home should adopt him.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Namrah, talk to some folks locally before getting ANY CO or CAS off Craigslist. There's apparently a mill up there churning them out and they're REALLY unstable. (I have a trainer friend who has one as a client and he's very atypical for the breed even though his owners have tried very ahrd to do everything right.)


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## Namrah (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm not getting anything off Craigslist, so no worries. =)

Especially a CO or CAS. I'd want to know the parents for sure.

I'm happy with fostering at the moment and have put the search for a second dog on hold (barring falling head over heels in love with one of my fosters) =)

I do feel bad that guy is getting shuffled around though.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

Dogstar said:


> Namrah, talk to some folks locally before getting ANY CO or CAS off Craigslist. There's apparently a mill up there churning them out and they're REALLY unstable. (I have a trainer friend who has one as a client and he's very atypical for the breed even though his owners have tried very ahrd to do everything right.)


I dropped this response to the owner of the Craiglist CO of age 2Y/O's, does not come with a stable history should not be seeking a placement fee. 

If u are seriously looking a decent, stable,lifetime family for your dog you will place him waiving of the fee.I know of a home here in LI.NY that might consider him. I own 2 Caucasian Ovtcharkas. If you really want a good home I can assist but no relocation fee and the family has toarrange possible visitation, pick up and transport.
S. Mulcahy


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

siobainmulcahy said:


> These dogs are like a gun.Guns dont kill unless they are loaded and the trigger is pulled ... It should also be known that you do not own a CO they own you.I am fine with that because I am the Alpha in my home and the dogs know it.


While I appreciate your enthusiasm for this great breed, I hate to hear these gun comparisons tossed around.

In the past, there was enough damage done to the Caucasian Ovcharka with similar gun references and propaganda (from a certain past breeder and a certain biased documentary) - *lets put the gun analogies to rest, please. They will only hurt our great breed.*

I'm rather surprised to read such a negative, and potentially hurtful, comment come from such a passionate breed enthusiast.

I prefer to think of my relationship with our Caucasians (and other working dogs) as a mutual agreement, and not an ownership from either side. They help keep our property and family safe giving us a lovely life and we do the same for them - no need for ownership.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

BradA1878 said:


> While I appreciate your enthusiasm for this great breed, I hate to hear these gun comparisons tossed around.
> 
> In the past, there was enough damage done to the Caucasian Ovcharka with similar gun references and propaganda (from a certain past breeder and a certain biased documentary) - *lets put the gun analogies to rest, please. They will only hurt our great breed.*
> 
> ...


I apologize if I insulted you. I am also a NRA member. I can change the comment from a gun to a mouse trap. Again they do not do damage unless set off. I treat weapons with care and caution just as this breed should be treated and not taken ligtheartedly. This is not your average dog. They are prey driven and highly capable of making a decision without being given a command. That is where training,training and more training as well as socialization come in to play for the owner of a CO. The damage that was done to the dogs rep is only damage if one wants it to be.It may have also been in the breeds best interest that some type of deterrent be said so that everyday people do not get one because they liked what they heard on TV. The average person who does not research this breed or any other LGD breed , I believe should not be my neighbor because they most likely will have no control or influence over the actions and reactions of the dog. I again am only sharing my experience with the 3 I have owned.
The thinking of the dog is what it is. It protects all that it considers theirs(property) I like that you have that relationship with your dogs! These dogs originated/ bred for a specific purpose to prototect the flock from preditors. The dog and flock could go months without human contact. As guardian of the flock there were no designated feeding times. The dog was bred with that trait to be self sufficient.
Again sorry for any disrespect. I have been researching this breed for over the last 3 years. I have learned so much and have so much more to learn. The average person in America has no clue unless they research. This is not a Doberman, German Shepard , or Poodle.( I have owned all but a poodle) This dog has a specific purpose that it was bred to do. You can take the dog from the flock in the mountain but the guard is always on duty. To what degree of guard duty depends on the owner's actions good, bad or indifferent. I have so much respect for this breed that I would not suggest this breed to anyone unless they were fully aware of what it was bred for and what it can and can not do. Like going up stairs is a no no.Any person I know including several trainers said ,Yes the dog must go up and down stairs. All the research and speaking w/breeders from the region the dogs come from all shared that stairs are a no,no. I would not want any OC or human hurt for a mistake or failure to educate ones self on the breed. 

Thank you for bringing to my attention that I should not use the gun reference in a forum chat environment. I learned something from you today! Thanks
Have a nice weekend
Respectfully,
S.Mulcahy


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

siobainmulcahy said:


> I apologize if I insulted you. I am also a NRA member. I can change the comment from a gun to a mouse trap. Again they do not do damage unless set off...


No need to apologize to _me_...

And, so we are clear, this has nothing to do with my view (I am a gun owner), or the general views, or the politics behind, owning guns. Gun ownership politics are irrelevant to my point, my point was only that calling the breed a weapon, or over-hyping a breed's ability and instinct, does no good for the breed.

Its just my opinion, but I think comments like that (and over-hyping) will only lead our breed to BSL, and then you and I, the responsible CO owners we are, will not be able to enjoy the breed the way we do. And that would be very sad.

I agree 100% with you, this breed is not for everyone, and not for the average dog owner. They serve a specific purpose and are very impressive in their capacity to perform their purpose/role. They have been protecting families, properties, and livestock for well over 4,000 years, and I hope that they are always allowed to do so.

I also agree that the placement process for a breed like the CO should be strict and filtering one, but I personally feel that is up to the breeder and not the role of the owners or of breed propaganda.

Again, as I already wrote, these are just my opinions.

No offense taken - and no offense or disrespect meant (from me) - and I certainly share your appreciation and enthusiasm for the CO.

While your CO are protecting your family from human threats, my three are protecting my family from wild threats - and just like you, I dunno what we would do without them.

As I write this, 2 of our CO are outside, in the darkness of night, barking off in the distance, and making sure our property is free from predators - it really give us a safe feeling knowing they are out there doing their job.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

BradA1878 said:


> No need to apologize to _me_...
> 
> And, so we are clear, this has nothing to do with my view (I am a gun owner), or the general views, or the politics behind, owning guns. Gun ownership politics are irrelevant to my point, my point was only that calling the breed a weapon, or over-hyping a breed's ability and instinct, does no good for the breed.
> 
> ...




I would love to be on a huge property. One day! I actually talked my husband into buying the neighbors house on the other block so I could bring my horse home. Boarding was going up over $500 a month so we purchased the house adjacent to ours. that was nearly a house payment in itself so we bought Clancy a house.He just does not live in it  I moved the fence back about 12 ft and bought a 1 stall model and had it placed on my property. The corrall is on the other property. I would like to breed the OC in the future. I would want to get into security aspect. My husband is retired NYPD and thinks I am nuts. He has allergies and I have the CO's in the house.Yes they are spoiled but they do what they are supposed to do. I agree totally about feeling safe! I walk at night with my 2. I have actually had people pull over just to find out what kind of dog we are walking On the weekends my daughter walks with me in the evening. She takes Bride-E her dog(I use my children as excuses to get the 2 Co's). I walk Blase, my son's pup. I never say mountain dog. It is hard to remember Ovtcharka, so I share a tid bit. They want to know more go read up on them. If I did breed I would be an ethical breeder. I am not in it for money. I just love the breed and horses. I consider my yard an eco system. When my brother visits from Va with his dog my system goes outta whack. Darby instigates dog chasing the barn cat. He nipps at the horse and I go mental on my brother. No manners or control on that dog of his. My bro & me went in on 6 acres in Kings Crossing Va. It is right up against George Washington National Forest. I hope one day to get out of NY and finally be the farmer I was meant to be with my family, pets and the pups.

So when you hear that woofing in the distants smile, feel secure, and enjoy your space!!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I have to say how nice it is to read such dialogue between two people. It's also really nice that we have two Ovtcharka owners on the board!


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

BradA1878 said:


> I think the short answer to your over-all questions is that you need to be very select in the lines you choose if you go with a CO. Some lines are sharper than others; some are sharper toward dogs, some toward people, some toward everything. A proper CO should not be overly aggressive and should be temperamentally "balanced" - but the breed is a guardian and does represent a rather high degree of liability.
> 
> They eat a LOT... err, at least ours do.
> 
> ...


Hi all,

I've just registered here and couldn't pass this great discussion.

I should agree that a lot depends on the line. The Caucasian Ovtcharka we owned was of a very protective line. He was a nice pet until 9 months old. After that he became savage.

The Caucasian Ovtcharka is one owner dog. Our Kris has chosen my wife as his owner. He wouldn't let me enter the kitchen if she was cooking there. He wouldn't let me touch her in his presence.

I can't say that we were not trying to socialize or train him. When he was a puppy I did all those things like taking him by skin and lifting him from the ground, or mixing his food with my hand in front of his nose. I tried hard to make him understand that I'm the pack leader. But it didn't help much.

As you probably know in Russia a real Caucasian Ovtcharka should gain 8-9 out of 10 points in the aggressiveness test (Central Asian Ovtcharka should get 6-7). I think Kris would easily get 10.

When we were on a walk and he saw another dog it took all my strength to keep him. Then he always tried to bite my arm, or the nearest tree. Once I almost lost my eye when he pulled me to a tree in his redirected aggression.

And still we loved him very much. 

BTW, he didn't eat a lot. I've heard that Caucasians usually have slow metabolism and don't need much food.

When Kris passed away we took a Leonberger as *BradA1878* recommends. These breeds have a lot of common in appearance but they are totally different in character.

Today we have a Leonberger, two Great Danes and a Doxie.

We really miss Kris and the wonderful Caucasian Ovtcharka breed!

Sorry for keeping you that long.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Flint said:


> Today we have a Leonberger, two Great Danes and a Doxie.
> 
> We really miss Kris and the wonderful Caucasian Ovtcharka breed!
> 
> Sorry for keeping you that long.


Its great to have another CO owner here! 

With your Leonbergers, do they show any guarding instinct at all? Just curious.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

BradA1878 said:


> Its great to have another CO owner here!
> 
> With your Leonbergers, do they show any guarding instinct at all? Just curious.


I was going through all the post. The National G video had my Bride-E's breeder T Follett from Thunderhawk Caucasians. I love Bride-E to death and would never return her. My personal dealings with her is that Tamarra has issues. I have contacted her and she has not responded. She is the reason the 2nd CO was purchased out of the country. The man in the video showed how a poorly soicialized CO should act. While on the lead you should have control. Off lead is another story. If you are having difficulty lead training a CO I suggest the training collor with the spikes inward. The amount of hair a CO has stoppes the spikes from doing any damage to the dog's neck. I have total and I mean total control of our 2 Y/O on lead. Blase, the pup is in training. I will need to get the training collor for him I can see already.When I 1st put it on Bride-E it was a different walk. I have her to the point that she ignores most everything except for the gang bangers around here. I swear they all must have the same scent and she knows. She gets into the protect mode immeaditaly. I have control of her but she likes to growl as she walks past them anyway.I have spent many hours training her to walki past little yippy dogs w/out her reacting. I stopped her,faced her to the yippers and make her sit until she no longer reacted to them. The UPS lady tells me she is a totally different dog on lead. She can actually talk to me with the dog sitting there. At our home the dog wants to take down the truck.On lead, it does not bother her and she does not react whatsoever to the truck.
Lastly, I walk at night w/Bride-E, we stop at a Statue of The Blessed Mother. I stopped during a rare day walk and Bride-E did the usual sit on command but when she looked up and saw the statue looking at her in daylight she started going nuts barking at it. I was so embarressed, I never even thought that not ever seeing the statue in daylight would make a difference. Next time I will think. Something so simple can upset a CO. They like to know everything that is going on around them even if they seem like they are not paying attention.

Has anyone else purchased their OC in another Country ,other than Canada? If so what country,breeder and what was the experience like??I am just being nosy


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> When he was a puppy I did all those things like taking him by skin and lifting him from the ground


Why on earth would anybody do that to a puppy with the exception of saving them from something harmful?!



> If you are having difficulty lead training a CO I suggest the training collor with the spikes inward.


It's called a pinch collar. And while they would be good for controlling the overall brute force strength of the dog, I wouldn't doubt that such a collar could rev them up even more x.x It doesn't seem to take much to create negative associations with these dogs and other objects. I'm hoping Brad will correct me if I'm wrong.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Xeph said:


> It's called a pinch collar. And while they would be good for controlling the overall brute force strength of the dog, I wouldn't doubt that such a collar could rev them up even more x.x It doesn't seem to take much to create negative associations with these dogs and other objects.


You're absolutely right, Xeph. 

Although the pinch collar could certainly be an excellent _training tool_, similar to the BRT (which has C.O. in its original breeding), you absolutely cannot depend on a pinch collar to physically control these dogs; they are far too intense, too explosive and too powerful ...

When aroused and in protection mode, those prongs could conceivably embed themselves right into the neck, and it will make little or no positive difference. In such a case, at best a pinch collar will only serve to further infuriate the dog.

From day one, they _must_ have proper and extensive socialization + training - even more so than most guardian breeds.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Xeph said:


> It doesn't seem to take much to create negative associations with these dogs and other objects. I'm hoping Brad will correct me if I'm wrong.


Yes, I agree. I've only had my CO for 2 years now, and only 3, so I don't know that I am an expert, but I have found that a CO under the age of 12 months should only be allowed to experience positive things. In other words, no "pushing" until the CO is older than 12 months (or more)...

The goal of socializing a CO pup (under 12 months) should be to give them only positive and happy experiences. That's just my opinion from my limited experience with the breed.

I can give an example...

With Luytiy, we got him older, but he had basically had very few bad negative experiences as a pup. So when we got him at a year old, he was pretty easy to socialize and get adjusted as he had not created any negative associations as a pup.

With Masha, we got her at 12 weeks, and we immediately had her in puppy socialization. She was in training and socialization classes non-stop for the first 14 months of her life. She's a very confident dog and did REALLY WELL in socialization classes. One of the classes she was in toward the end, tho, was an advanced obedience class where we had some really nice trainers but one was a very animated man who really liked to "push" the dogs (as in "push criteria", not physical pushing). He was a little unsure of Masha, which made her unsure of him, combine that with the pushing (pushing her past her "comfort zone" - creating a negative experience) and she now doesn't like men and HATES that male trainer. 

Since that situation, and after she turned 1 year, we have taken her to an "outdoor adventure" class, where we did some obedience while hiking, and she had some negative experiences but rebounded well from them w/o forming any permanent negative associations (as far as we can tell).

Now that we have Leila, who we got at 5 months, we have been doing socialization and training with her, but we have made it really clear that she is to have only good experiences - so if their is something in the training that we feel she is not gonna be comfortable with we pass on it - we are there for socialization first, and training second. She's 10 months now (about the age Masha had her bad experience) and so far she is doing great - and likes men. LOL... 

My conclusion from all this: _Don't "push" a CO until they have passed the "puppy pass" phase of life (which lasts a long time for a big breed like the CO)_.

I'll keep you posted on it.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> In such a case, at best a pinch collar will only serve to further infuriate the dog.


I have seen this with the Cattle Dogs a bit. You put a pinch on them and they react in the EXACT OPPOSITE way you would expect. Many dogs quit pulling and are seemingly "cured", but the ACD becomes more and more reactive, and the more you "pop" the collar, the worse he is.

The ACD is bred to be so tenacious and so fiery, a tool like a pinch seems to "anger" them when they're in drive.


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

BradA1878 said:


> Its great to have another CO owner here!
> 
> With your Leonbergers, do they show any guarding instinct at all? Just curious.


Thank you, *BradA1878*. My Leonberher doesn't show any guarding instinct. They have much of Newfoundland's character and prefer making friends to guarding.


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Why on earth would anybody do that to a puppy with the exception of saving them from something harmful?!
> QUOTE]
> 
> *Xeph*, I didn't mean a little cutie like my miniature doxie. I was talking about a CO pup weighting 60 pounds. Lifting a puppy by skin and shaking it is the old dog trainers' method to show the dog your dominance (its mother did the same). CO tends to dominate and needs to know that its master is stronger.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Lifting a puppy by skin and shaking it is the old dog trainers' method to show the dog your dominance (its mother did the same


Sorry, but I do not subscribe to dominance theory. At. All. Ever. What I've seen is that it only makes things worse.

I own Shepherds, and I know the power of the GSD. The power of the CO is stronger. I'd never scruff my Shepherd with the exception of saving him or someone else from danger he may present. Why? Cause I'll get bit. It is an affront that can be avoided.

I want to prevent as much conflict between my dog and I as I can.

Strauss has never been alpha rolled, or scruffed, and he understands fully who the leader is. And because of that, he makes an awesome service dog (with much of what he has been taught being clicker trained), and that's all I'll say on the subject.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Flint said:


> Xeph said:
> 
> 
> > I was talking about a CO pup weighting 60 pounds. Lifting a puppy by skin and shaking it is the old dog trainers' method to show the dog your dominance (its mother did the same). CO tends to dominate and needs to know that its master is stronger.
> ...


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> you suggest manhandling a *sixty pound CO Puppy!?!?!?*
> 
> a sixty pound dog can tear someone up pretty badly.
> 
> wow.


I don't suggest anything, *zimandtakandgrrandmimi*. I love dogs and treat them with all my heart. I only know that if you don't train your CO pup before he turns 10 months old you may get a GR8 headache. BTW, the weight of an adult CO may reach 160 pounds. It's not so easy to deal with such a giant if it's not properly socialized and trained.


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Sorry, but I do not subscribe to dominance theory. At. All. Ever. What I've seen is that it only makes things worse.
> 
> I own Shepherds, and I know the power of the GSD.


*Xeph*, German Shepherds are much more controllable. You own one of the most intelligent dog breeds.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> You own one of the most intelligent dog breeds.


I really question that on the days that Strauss falls off the bed  xD


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

Xeph said:


> I have seen this with the Cattle Dogs a bit. You put a pinch on them and they react in the EXACT OPPOSITE way you would expect. Many dogs quit pulling and are seemingly "cured", but the ACD becomes more and more reactive, and the more you "pop" the collar, the worse he is.
> 
> The ACD is bred to be so tenacious and so fiery, a tool like a pinch seems to "anger" them when they're in drive.


I can only speak w/my experience and it is that I have done all my training based on what I have learned about the breed by reading and communicating on the internet w/european breeders. I have spoke to trainers here in NY and honestly, they do not seem to know much about the breed other than it is powerful. My girl is very well mannered on the lead. If she is angered to the point of attack I would let her go. If she felt that threatened , I trust her and I know her. Recently a man who push a shopping cart to pick up bottles and cans tried to sneak up behind us. The extent people will go to mess w/Bride-E. She stopped , turned and went into aggressive mode but did not lunge at him. He walked closer and as he approached our saftey zone she got up and went for him. I gave 2 yanks on the lead,said no, then sit. She sat and growled. The man walked away laughing. My dogs are fenced and never out of the yard off lead. When she is on the property, off lead she is going to do what she was bred to do. My interventions may not stop her immeadietley, and I know that. So know your dog, and train ,train ,train. Pick the collar that works for you and be consistant.
I am getting a pinch for this Blase very soon.
As u can see he already sticks his tongue out at me when I turn my back.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Flint said:


> I don't suggest anything, *zimandtakandgrrandmimi*. I love dogs and treat them with all my heart. I only know that if you don't train your CO pup before he turns 10 months old you may get a GR8 headache. BTW, the weight of an adult CO may reach 160 pounds. It's not so easy to deal with such a giant if it's not properly socialized and trained.




i know about CO. The woman who owns the office building down the block has an elderly male CO. nice dog. not a dog i would use any force with. peanut butter cookies and bully sticks work just fine. 


and call me Zim.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

Xeph said:


> I really question that on the days that Strauss falls off the bed  xD


Does you GS at least share the pillow??


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Does you GS at least share the pillow??


He's not allowed near the pillow when he's on the bed. He drools on it


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

Xeph said:


> He's not allowed near the pillow when he's on the bed. He drools on it


How cruel He deserves his own drool pillow at least for the protection and peace of mind you get having a dog on patrol(even if your on the floor w/the pillow


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Xeph said:


> I really question that on the days that Strauss falls off the bed  xD


Loa (Shikoku) fell off the bed once and now she will not even go upstairs! She think some evil bed monster pushed her off. She was a really good snuggler too!


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

As for the CO training stuff...

They are just dogs, they learn through the same conventions as all the other dog breeds do. Sure, CO can be very defensive, are large, and can be serious, but at the end of the day they are a dog and they love cookies just as much as the next dog.

I don't subscribe to the dominance/alpha stuff for our CO, or any of our other dogs. I never felt the need to hold Masha up and shake her as a pup, she was a gem. Now as an adult, she is super loving and caring - she protect our yard like nothing you have seen before - but a simple _"Masha, that's enough"_ will get her to stop her guarding - and we got there without any silly dominance training methods. Just cookies and learning.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

BradA1878 said:


> Loa (Shikoku) fell off the bed once and now she will not even go upstairs! She think some evil bed monster pushed her off. She was a really good snuggler too!


I busted my 6 y/o son letting hos soaking wet CO on the couch.Wet dog, husband w/allergies, not good, even though I vacumm twice a day. I know I am pushing it by keeping the 2 CO's in the house but on the furnature will surely land me in divorce court.
My son thought it was very funny because I did not even notice the dog.He was wet and blended w/furnature color I waited until it dried and then sprayed it w/some strong perfume.My son ratted me out 4 what he allowed.I can trust the dogs not to tell but not the kids!!


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

http://daur-don.security-dog.org/page_engl/circus.html
I do not know if this cut n pasted link will work,but it has CO's acting in the circus.


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

*zimandtakandgrrandmimi*, thank you, *Zim*.

*BradA1878*, I have to quote you once again.
You were saying:
"I think the short answer to your over-all questions is that you need to be very select in the lines you choose if you go with a CO". 
I'm glad that CO owners here were lucky with this. Just wanted to warn newbies that COs need special attention before they grew up.

*siobainmulcahy*, thank you for sharing this. I never new COs are able to act in the circus.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

Flint said:


> *zimandtakandgrrandmimi*, thank you, *Zim*.
> 
> *BradA1878*, I have to quote you once again.
> You were saying:
> ...


I'm glad the link worked. I wonder if the Circus CO's are medicated??


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

siobainmulcahy said:


> I'm glad the link worked. I wonder if the Circus CO's are medicated??


If anyone is interested here is some more info about the CO breed history. Hope the cut n pasted link works!

http://www.caucazian.ro/EN/istorie_KO.php


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Xeph said:


> Learn something new everyday.


If you are even found in possession of a single eagle feather from one that you found on the side of the road you can get in trouble.

For the OP..

Any herding breed is generally going to be protective. Any will carry a risk.

None really need a "flock" to protect, you and your kids, and maybe even their friends will be the dog's "flock".

My aussie as kid bit several other kids during her life. Any kid that hit one of "her" kids or threw something at us or anything she perceived as an act of aggression put them at risk. Though she only made one of them actually bleed.

Personally I would stay away from a CO, too much liability for me to take on.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

TxRider said:


> If you are even found in possession of a single eagle feather from one that you found on the side of the road you can get in trouble.
> 
> For the OP..
> 
> ...


Information is knowledge. I doubt I will be finding any Eagle feathers on the streets of Long Island unless a gang banger was wearing an Eagle feather & lost it. 

When I was little my human brother would beat up kids that picked on me. I was a very passive child. I grew up to be a social worker who helps others and I own 2 very big CO's dogs that have a reputation of protection. Everyone has a comfort level that includes security of family and self. I agree w/yr Aussie. I would have bit the lil buggers too


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

siobainmulcahy said:


> Information is knowledge. I doubt I will be finding any Eagle feathers on the streets of Long Island unless a gang banger was wearing an Eagle feather & lost it.
> 
> When I was little my human brother would beat up kids that picked on me. I was a very passive child. I grew up to be a social worker who helps others and I own 2 very big CO's dogs that have a reputation of protection. Everyone has a comfort level that includes security of family and self. I agree w/yr Aussie. I would have bit the lil buggers too


I hope it is ok 2 post this begging for food for those in shelters??

All you animal lovers! 
This is pretty simple... Please ask ten friends to each ask a further ten today! The Animal Rescue Site is having trouble getting enough people to click on it daily so they can meet their quota of getting FREE FOOD donated every day to abused and neglected animals. It takes less than a minute (about 5 seconds) to go to their site and click on the purple box 'fund food for animals for free'. This doesn't cost you a thing. 
Their corporate sponsors/advertisers use the number of daily visits to donate food to abandoned/neglected animals in exchange for advertising. 
Here's the web site! Please pass it along to people you know.


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## siobainmulcahy (Jan 30, 2010)

siobainmulcahy said:


> I hope it is ok 2 post this begging for food for those in shelters??
> 
> All you animal lovers!
> This is pretty simple... Please ask ten friends to each ask a further ten today! The Animal Rescue Site is having trouble getting enough people to click on it daily so they can meet their quota of getting FREE FOOD donated every day to abused and neglected animals. It takes less than a minute (about 5 seconds) to go to their site and click on the purple box 'fund food for animals for free'. This doesn't cost you a thing.
> ...



http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

siobainmulcahy said:


> Information is knowledge. I doubt I will be finding any Eagle feathers on the streets of Long Island unless a gang banger was wearing an Eagle feather & lost it.


Yup the only people allowed to posses any part of an eagle are native Americans or maybe a museum or some such. Even then there are rules.



> When I was little my human brother would beat up kids that picked on me. I was a very passive child. I grew up to be a social worker who helps others and I own 2 very big CO's dogs that have a reputation of protection. Everyone has a comfort level that includes security of family and self. I agree w/yr Aussie. I would have bit the lil buggers too


That's why I would stay away from an OC, Even what my aussie did as a kid in these current times would end up with a law suit and the dog put to death.

Even a criminal mugging me can sue me if my dog bites them and causes permanent harm.

I have 2 GSD's now, I try to teach them I am the defender, and they are not to show any aggression to anyone. But that's my choice, I'm far bigger and stronger than they are anyway.


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

TxRider said:


> That's why I would stay away from an OC.
> I have 2 GSD's now, I try to teach them I am the defender, and they are not to show any aggression to anyone. But that's my choice, I'm far bigger and stronger than they are anyway.


I agree that it's a matter of own choice. On this page http://www.russiandog.net/dog-video/guard-dogs there are two good videos about COs, one showing a guy who wanted to have a "real guard dog", another comes from a family that considers CO to be the best breed in the world.


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

Hello! I am new to the forum but couldn't resist the opportunity to share  We recently adopted a 9-month-old CO and couldn't be happier with her. She is great with our other dog (4-year-old neutered Dane/Shepherd mix) and respects our cats. She was EXTREMELY well socialized by her previous owners and LOVES going for walks around the neighborhood with us, going shopping, and playing with other dogs. She will accept anyone we tell her is "okay," although, she may still keep a close eye on them. Even at this stage of the game, our bond is undeniable, and I am looking forward to many happy years with her.
If I can be of any help to others who may be curious or seeking information, I would be glad to share our personal experience or any of the research we did before bringing her into our home.


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## Flint (Feb 1, 2010)

My sincere congratulations.


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## Segun (Apr 1, 2011)

Hello everyone, My name's Segun. Im new here, just wanna say reading the discussion has been helpful. I'm from NYC and I just got a 3 month old CO. Looking forward to training him to become a well mannered dog. Any further insights would be truely welcomed.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

They are an advanced handler breed. They are extremely protective of home and family. We have been waiting for my youngest to be much older before obtaining one ourselves. They are good with children in their family and my son is good with dogs, however since they still have strange young children visit our home to socialize we decided to wait just to be extra cautious.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Very educational thread. Though I might be scared of them now too. One of the first pictures that comes up when you search for this breed is...
http://bullykuttas.pkscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Caucasian_Shepherd_Temprament.jpg

Is that... a bear? O_O


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## Kodiak (Mar 14, 2011)

i have a customer who breeds and trains leonburgers...she swears by them. protects her goats and land. and their pretty dogs, but they are also a social dog. most dogs will take hints off of an owner as to if they need protection.

i had a dog who was naturally very protective of me. if someone yelled at me she had her hackles raised. I never discouraged it, she never bit anyone until later with the onset of a brain tumor. there was one time me and my ex fought, and while they were technically his dogs, she was always weary of men kind of..dk why we had her and her brother at 4 weeks and never mistreated them. but he raised his voice and she pinned him against the wall and had her mouth over his neck. i felt safe going out with her on the trails where rapes and murders were likely. 
then her brother was the picture of blondness....goofy and loved everyone, but when playing football i got knocked over one time, he charged at my exs brother and snapped at him. those were dane pit mixes.

i had my family dog growing up, a pure mutt, lunge at a neighbor boy who hit me with a bat. it hurt...and it wasnt playing. but he lunged across the street and bit the bat. only other time he was aggressive was when a newspaper boy hit him with the newspaper, he went to puppy jail for biting the boy. 

any breed has the ability to be protective. i mean...i had a french lop rabbit who growled and charged at guys if they sat by me when in my room. my aunt came up behind me and scared me once and my cat pinned her in a corner (yes a house cat) screaming and hissing, swatting at her cause she had scared me..cat still does it, i raised her from half a day old so our bond is strong. 

if you have a strong enough bond, no matter what breed, and you are in danger, your dog will most likely step up and surprise you.


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## Segun (Apr 1, 2011)

Mine is only 3 months old and i got him last week and already I've seen the natural protective instinct in him. He bonded with me right away and is still getting to know the rest of the family. He was eating one day and my sister was walking by, he started barking at her. I had to let him know that was not acceptable. He was raised in a kennel and not used to seeing a lot of people but im really trying to socialize him by taking him out every day so that he'll be comfortable. What do you guys feed your dogs..raw diet or dog food? which do you think is better and have you done any research into either one. Both supporters have their pros and cons


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Kodiak said:


> i have a customer who breeds and trains leonburgers...she swears by them. protects her goats and land. and their pretty dogs, but they are also a social dog. most dogs will take hints off of an owner as to if they need protection.
> 
> i had a dog who was naturally very protective of me. if someone yelled at me she had her hackles raised. I never discouraged it, she never bit anyone until later with the onset of a brain tumor. there was one time me and my ex fought, and while they were technically his dogs, she was always weary of men kind of..dk why we had her and her brother at 4 weeks and never mistreated them. but he raised his voice and she pinned him against the wall and had her mouth over his neck. i felt safe going out with her on the trails where rapes and murders were likely.
> then her brother was the picture of blondness....goofy and loved everyone, but when playing football i got knocked over one time, he charged at my exs brother and snapped at him. those were dane pit mixes.
> ...


If someone has sheep in an area with a real predatory threat then employing a Leonberger as their primary protection is borderline neglect IMHO. There is a reason why breeds have gone through 1000s of years of selection for traits that help them perform a specific function (like guarding livestock), that reason is so one doesn't have to employee dogs that will not function correctly in a desired role (and in this case putting their livestock at risk).

On that note, I don't subscribe to the "any dog will protect you if it loves you" mindset. I've seen too many guardian breeds - dogs produced specifically to protect - cull under the slightest bit of pressure from a decoy.


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## Irishman (May 13, 2011)

Xeph said:


> This is why they scare me....and please keep in mind I own Shepherds and HAVE participated in bite sports:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjXIoCIAVQI&feature=related
> 
> The other two breeds are the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and the Shar Pei


This is a late post to the thread, I know, but I've seen that video, and have to say that pretty much any guard-type dog will do exactly that when a strange person comes in their yard and taunts them. I'm not saying it's wrong to be wary of CO dogs, because I've heard they're a handful, but the fact that this one jumped at a guy who was specifically taunting him to get that reaction isn't indicative of a bad dog. 

Heck, I'd probably bite him if he acted like that to me, too.


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