# I guess I am no longer the dog whisperer that I thought I was.



## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Over the years I have had somewhere between 12 - 15 dogs. And I never had an issue getting them trained in ANYTHING.... I could house break a dog in a couple days ( not 100% of course, but really well )..... I could take an unruly dog from the SPCA and have it behaving at an acceptable level within a week. Really, whatever the training was, I could just do it. 

Sadly, that was then, and this is now. 

I have a puppy that is sucking the life out of me. We have had her 7 months and she's still not housebroken. I can take her out for a walk, and she might come in and poop in the house almost immediately. I always take her to the same spot when we are just in the yard, and the same thing might happen. 

She doesn't "come" unless she wants to, even in the house. She absolutely knows what "come" is, but it all depends on her as to whether she will come or not. 

I always use positive reinforcement style training. She's basically ambivalent to being told "good girl", or petting her - unless it is on HER TERMS.

So finally, I had to make the choice to start taking her to obedience training tomorrow. I absolutely can't believe that I have to do that. It's a really defeating feeling. People have come to me in the past to have them get their dog trained.....

Either I lost my touch, or this dog is just outside the scope of "Normal".... I am leaning towards the latter.

*OK, so, have any of you had success with using a trainer to help the most incorrigible dogs imaginable?*

BTW, she does have many good qualities... excellent with dogs and kids... Good watchdog.... funny. And quite loving - when SHE WANTS TO BE.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Cheer up. Being "not a dog whisperer" is a good thing. There's no shame in getting help, and often a good trainer can help you work around your problems. After all, they've worked with hundreds of dogs - many of whom are there because they have an issue or two. There are a lot of dogs who are ambivalent to petting and "good girl."


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> many of whom are there because they have an issue or two.


Boy Oh Boy, You sure got that right.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh, and I can't use food.... she is so obsessed that if she thinks there is food she can't concentrate on anything else.


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## Snoopy11 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hopefully a trainer can help you get going in the right direction. As far as the food obsession, have you read the doggy zen sticky and tried training anything like that? I'm still working on that with my dog, too, because he gets hyper-focused on my treats sometimes.


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## hast (Aug 17, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> Oh, and I can't use food.... she is so obsessed that if she thinks there is food she can't concentrate on anything else.


That's when you do use food ... but may have to find other treats. Start with lower value food, like kibble ... and use some higher value to mix in when the kibble is 'old news' ... and make sure she's fed when you have your training sessions. 

I have a dog that is prepared to turn herself into a pretzel for a tiny, tiny piece of any treat I can come up with. I can not track with her unless she's newly fed, (right by the starting flag would be a good place, lol) she gets way too pushy and rush around the track to find the few treats there ... If she's just not hungry (or very low value treats if she is hungry) she's super easy to train if I just can figure out how to present what I want her to do.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

In the classes I've taken I've seen dogs that were crazy as a bed bug but by the end of the class (8 weeks) it was a different dog, one dog went thru two levels of classes with us, was not the same dog even from end of first class, I was impressed. 

As for not coming when called, our youngest does that, my trainer called it "flipping the dew claw" because you can just tell when we is going to not listen, he gets this look as if to say F you (hence dew claw flipping). He is a fantastic dog except for a couple traits, but outside is leash only for him, this caused us to rig up a 100' long line with a ruff wear harness for backyard play & turn our 60x60 garden space into a dog play area.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Well, last night was the 1st night of 4 classes. We didn't actually train anything. We listened a lot, and they gave us a new type of collar to use - kind of like a choker that doesn't choke. So I was thinking that I qwas wasting my time and money.... well today she already seems "better". Not like I want, but better than she was. Now I have to start the home training later on this morning.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Sometimes it just takes an outside perspective. Different dogs are different. Muggsy was very people oriented, praise oriented and loved training and performing. Kabota . . . not so much. He loves affection, but he's not terribly interested in training for the sake of training. Nor he is anywhere near as smart as Muggsy was, which isn't a slam on Kabota, it's just the truth.

I do have to say that clicker training really helped a lot with Kabota. I never tried it with Muggsy, because it was totally unnecessary with him.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> Oh, and I can't use food.... she is so obsessed that if she thinks there is food she can't concentrate on anything else.


There is a very quick way to fix that. Google "Food Zen"



Papa Deuce said:


> Well, last night was the 1st night of 4 classes. We didn't actually train anything. We listened a lot, and they gave us a new type of collar to use - kind of like a choker that doesn't choke. So I was thinking that I qwas wasting my time and money.... well today she already seems "better". Not like I want, but better than she was. Now I have to start the home training later on this morning.


I'm always a little suspicious of "special collars"


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

I have lived with 5 different dogs, and Ozzie is by far the 'most difficult' dog I've ever come across, even considering fosters, friends and neighbors dogs. This doesn't mean he is a bad dog, not in the least, but it does mean that I need to adjust my expectations and my training to meet his needs. If I stand around trying the same thing that worked for the past 4 dogs, over and over again, it isn't his fault he isn't getting it the way I think he should be. What it means is that I am doing a poor job of training. 

If I remember correctly your pup (what is her name, anyways?) is a hound mix. Have you ever owned a 'strong' hound before? What I mean by strong is that the hound traits are really pronounced. As a hound owner, you may have to come to the realization that things are going to be much different this time around. 

I trained my dogs at home and we only took our first formal obedience class together (it was a 12 week CGC prep+test class) this past year (they were 3.5 at the time). They knew the exercises we did already, but I thought the class was very beneficial because it provided a structured environment and an allotted time every week for me to bond with my dogs and for us to work around distraction. A few new issues came to light (it seems Tyler is afraid of metal walkers) that we got to work on as well. During the 12 weeks Tyler was in class, I was doing all the exercises with Ozzie. Then when Ty graduated, I enrolled Ozzie. So by the time the first class rolled around for him, he had been practicing all the exercises for 12 solid weeks as well as knowing them beforehand. Nothing was new, but I still took what I could out of every class. I would say that Ozzie GREATLY improved in ways that I never expected, and I believe this is due just to the extra bonding and working together we did. 

So, really my point is, there IS something to be gained. I don't know why you would feel embarrassed about it. I think its great that you are trying to improve your relationship with your dog.


(and her being food motivated is awesome. USE IT!)


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## JessLough (Jan 4, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> I'm always a little suspicious of "special collars"


sounds like a martingale, not a "special collar"


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

JessLough said:


> sounds like a martingale, not a "special collar"



That is what is sounds like to me too


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## Snoopy11 (Jan 20, 2012)

Is a martingale not a special collar?


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

the problem dog is when you truly learn


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

This collar is half fabric collar and half chain.... it has 3 rings on it. And the idea is that pulling the chain gives the sound of a choker, but it does not choke.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> This collar is half fabric collar and half chain.... it has 3 rings on it. And the idea is that pulling the chain gives the sound of a choker, but it does not choke.


Yup. A martingale. Why would you want to make the sound of a choker though? When I train, I try to make collar and leash a Non-issue as much as possible. Dogs don't need the "warning" of a leash pop unless you are planning to give them one.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Pawzk9 said:


> Yup. A martingale. *Why would you want to make the sound of a choker though? *When I train, I try to make collar and leash a Non-issue as much as possible. Dogs don't need the "warning" of a leash pop unless you are planning to give them one.



I don't. It's what the trainer gave us.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Papa Deuce said:


> I don't. It's what the trainer gave us.


But you chose the trainer. By paying for the class, you're buying into the methods. If you don't think that the methods are good, then another trainer might be better. You don't get to foist responsibility off on the trainer.

Try not to feel defeated about going to obedience class. I think all dogs should have some kind of activity or class at some point, no matter how experienced their owners are. Your dog will enjoy it if you enjoy it, so try not to hate it.

One of the hardest parts about training dogs is figuring out what motivates each one. I feel sorry for people who are stuck with dogs who aren't motivated by much - it must be really frustrating. But it sounds like you already know what motivates your dog: food! What you need now is impulse control so that the dog doesn't lose her head at the first sight/smell of it. 

I'm sort of surprised about the housetraining. Are you giving a food reward for eliminating outside? Every time? If the dog is really as food motivated as you say, I can't believe she hasn't figured out by now that eliminating outside predicts a food reward. I've seen highly food-motivated dogs (like mine) fake peeing, just so they can cheat their way to an extra reward when they don't actually have to go. Hint: that's when you know you can start cutting back on the rewards.

I also wanted to say that this dog is young, and pretty much at the height of teenage-dom. Kit was so crazy at 9mo that I was wearing black and only black around her so that she didn't destroy every piece of clothing I owned. We were taking basic obedience classes when she was around that age. The trainer had us tie our dogs out on cement blocks so that we had our hands free for clickers, treats, etc. Kit took this as an invitation to drag her cement block across the floor so that she could enthusiastically greet the trainer. I'm stunned she passed basic obedience, though we certainly earned the title of "most improved". Impulse control goes hand in hand with maturity - she's much better now, though she will never be well-behaved.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Well, to be honest, I picked the trainer based on one person's reference, but I didn't ask about collars. It never even occurred to me. Like I said, prior to this I had ZERO need for a trainer, so I just picked one that someone I knew used. 

I used to use clickers for her, and it worked for some things, but not housebreaking. I gave up after 3 solid months of trying it. 

And just last night I took her out at 10PM for 20 minutes.... no poop. She came inside, and while I was in the powder room, she went upstairs and pooped in my bathroom, just 3 -4 minutes after she came in.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Papa Deuce said:


> So finally, I had to make the choice to start taking her to obedience training tomorrow. I absolutely can't believe that I have to do that. It's a really defeating feeling.


I was reading some unrelated literature yesterday, by chance, and I happened to come across the following inspirational quote, which I thought might be of assistance in your particular situation .... 

*"It marks a big step in your development when you come to realize that other people can help you do a better job than you could do alone."* 
~ _Andrew Carnegie_

Apologies for the apparent 'sappy-ness' of the quote. Anyways ... hope it helps to diminish the defeated feeling.


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## Alerondogs (Mar 23, 2011)

I'd suggest this book:
http://www.amazon.com/When-Pigs-Fly-Training-Impossible/dp/1929242441/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330270964&sr=1-3


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> And just last night I took her out at 10PM for 20 minutes.... no poop. She came inside, and while I was in the powder room, she went upstairs and pooped in my bathroom, just 3 -4 minutes after she came in.


This is a management issue. If a dog is not housetrained, you don't give them free, unsupervised run of the house.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Papa Deuce said:


> I used to use clickers for her, and it worked for some things, but not housebreaking. I gave up after 3 solid months of trying it.


Skip the clicker, then, but you can still give a food reward. Let her outside to go. If she goes, big party with the tastiest treats you can find. If she doesn't go, back inside and try again soon. 

I'm sort of getting the feeling that you think you're above the whole training thing. Like being incredulous that you have to take the dog to classes. And giving up on a method (clickers for housetraining) without coming up with a better plan. And using special collars (which are a shortcut). You have to go through these steps with every dog, no matter how experienced you are. You have a dog that loves food, so it really shouldn't be a painful, slow process.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Incredulous? Maybe so. I mean I always was really good at this for my whole life. I can't believe I can't seem to get this dog trained on my own. So, yeah, that might be the right word. But at least I am taking her to a trainer.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Training 15 dogs does not a dog trainer make, but it's not chopped liver either. The 16th, 17th, 18th, (oh you get the idea) just may be totally different dogs than the 1st 15. 

At least you are moving forward, it's not a bad thing and hopefully will learn things that the 1st 15 dogs did not teach you. (hope I got the amount of dogs right)


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> This is a management issue. If a dog is not housetrained, you don't give them free, unsupervised run of the house.


 Exactly! No freedom for those who use everywhere as a bathroom.

I'm having my own struggles here, but it helps to read all the inspiration on this thread!


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## SassyCat (Aug 29, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> Incredulous? Maybe so. I mean I always was really good at this for my whole life. I can't believe I can't seem to get this dog trained on my own. So, yeah, that might be the right word. But at least I am taking her to a trainer.


Don't take this as an offence, please, but by reading all the posts I come to think that you're ahead of yourself here. It's good that you asked for help! This new dog will teach you lots of new things so that's the good part .

People here already gave you some critical tips so I don't have much other to say. This one for example, isn't just to keep your carpet clean, it is a vital advise:


Pawzk9 said:


> If a dog is not housetrained, you don't give them free, unsupervised run of the house.


Don't let this dog run around unsupervised...


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## Husky0 (Feb 6, 2012)

Yeah I agree with most of what posts. Especially the NO FREEDOM part.

I'm actually having the same problem, so I know what you are going thru. I would suggest that you clean up the places where she eliminates in the house using odor remover. Plus, you'll have to take her out more often. After she eats, drinks, play, and short naps. And when she do her business out even if only once a day, throw her a big party and reward her, so she know it's a good thing. Dogs are smart but they have a bad memory, so by throwing a party after eliminating in the proper place reward her and say like "good job, nice potty", which is going to help her remember that it's a good thing to poo or pee outdoor.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

You mean take her out MORE than the 20x a day she already goes out?  That's LITERALLY 20x a day. 

But I have started crating her more again.... she hates it, but I guess she'll have to figure it out.


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## Husky0 (Feb 6, 2012)

Papa Deuce said:


> You mean take her out MORE than the 20x a day she already goes out?  That's LITERALLY 20x a day.


Ok, I do exactly the same thing and my husky puppy would still do it on the patio rather than where she is supposed to do. I crate here whenever I'm not around (An hour or two). So as I was saying before, cleaning where she usually eliminates will make her confused, so what you wanna do is when she's sniffing and making circles run with her to the proper place. Anyway, I have done this technique and it worked, but apparently I picked a bad spot for potty (The patio) lol.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Papa Deuce said:


> You mean take her out MORE than the 20x a day she already goes out?  That's LITERALLY 20x a day.


Who said anything about taking her out more frequently??? I saw two pieces of advice:

1) Do not allow the dog free roam of the house. If she's not with you, then she's crated. 

2) Give high value food rewards for eliminating outside. That means, keep them by the door so that you can grab them on your way out. Dog sees food reward, wants it, and learns to eliminate in order to earn it. 

20X a days seems excessive to me. You need to outsmart the dog, not badger her to death.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

double post


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Who said anything about taking her out more frequently??? I saw two pieces of advice:
> 
> 1) Do not allow the dog free roam of the house. If she's not with you, then she's crated.
> 
> ...


Uh, Husky0 did.

And she badgers US. She stands by the door and whines and still doesn't go. 

See, now you have crossed the line from being helpful to not, by making assumptions. and not reading the posts.


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## Snoopy11 (Jan 20, 2012)

Going out 20 times a day is very excessive. If you're not already, you need to ignore her when she whines at the door. She can't badger you if you don't let her. You choose when she goes outside, only at times when she is quiet.

It sounds like it's necessary to crate her more often for awhile, until she learns to eliminate outside. So in the meantime, you should work on training her to like the crate. She shouldn't hate it. Being put in it shouldn't feel like punishment.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

If she is asking to go outside 20x/day and is still going in the house, then she's simply not house trained. Barring any medical problem, I'd suspect that she's learned that outside = fun time (keeping in mind that fun can be a lot of things from the fun of getting your attention to the fun of checking out every little noise that she might have heard from inside) and inside = potty. 

In that case, I think this advice is spot on: 


GottaLuvMutts said:


> Who said anything about taking her out more frequently??? I saw two pieces of advice:
> 
> 1) Do not allow the dog free roam of the house. If she's not with you, then she's crated.
> 
> 2) Give high value food rewards for eliminating outside. That means, keep them by the door so that you can grab them on your way out. Dog sees food reward, wants it, and learns to eliminate in order to earn it.


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## hast (Aug 17, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> Uh, Husky0 did.
> 
> And she badgers US. She stands by the door and whines and still doesn't go.
> 
> <snip>


She's not 'badgering' you ... she's very effectively training you. lol. I understand your dilema ... you want puppy to tell you when she wants to go out, but you don't want to 'get trained' to take her out at her whim. I'd think crating and time management would be the way to go. Keep her entertained and away from the door for a couple of hours after she come in from having eliminated, then crate her until it's time to take her out on a leash. Ignore her while she's sniffing around ... don't play or talk to her until after she has eliminated. Then throw a party with treats and play.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Do you take her out on leash? (Don't remember reading if she was or wasn't, correct me if it's here somewhere)


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Alerondogs said:


> I'd suggest this book:
> http://www.amazon.com/When-Pigs-Fly-Training-Impossible/dp/1929242441/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330270964&sr=1-3


I just ordered this book about an hour ago! TYVM. It sounds promising.... And I love that one of the reviews specifically mentioned a coonhound as being hard to train....

Though, I don't know what her real deal is..... if SHE wants to, she seems to learn stuff really fast. If she doesn't want to, as of right now, it is a really frustrating experience. The longer we own her the more I am sure that she is really pretty smart, but stubborn beyond belief.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

do you leash the dog when you go outside? Take her to the potty spot, wait a minute? 

My dog is crate trained, loves her crate, so I have no fear of ruining that positive association with the crate. When she asks to go out (rings the bell) and is OBVIOUSLY abusing the bell I take her out like a normal potty break, Leash, go outside to potty spot, wait a minute then IF nothing happens (or she is looking for cat, squirrel) I take her inside and directly to her crate. She stays there for 20 min. Were she like your dog and unreliable in the house I'd then leash her, take her outside to potty spot, wait a minute and repeat the entire thing UNTIl she pottys. Then it's good girl, lots of treats and free range int he house. 

In other words there are consequences for asking to go outside and NOT pottying.

And if she's after more play time outside then I'll let her potty THEN after pooping/peeing I'll play with her int he yard. But not before... So play becomes the reward for pottying, and not the food treat.

I also think having a trainer is a great idea. The right one will help out, be a second pair of eyes for you and give you all sorts of usefull ideas.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> I just ordered this book about an hour ago! TYVM. It sounds promising.... And I love that one of the reviews specifically mentioned a coonhound as being hard to train....
> 
> Though, I don't know what her real deal is..... if SHE wants to, she seems to learn stuff really fast. If she doesn't want to, as of right now, it is a really frustrating experience. The longer we own her the more I am sure that she is really pretty smart, but stubborn beyond belief.


 welcome to the life of owning a hound. 

And the book you ordered is excellent. I own it and keep it handy when I am feeling particularly frustrated. The tips in there were a lot more helpful for Ozzie and I than some of the more popular books. I think you will like it! It is written well too, IMO. 

Hounds are incredibly smart. They are so smart that they make you think they are stupid just so they don't have to do anything they don't want to. The trick is finding out what motivates your pup. It sounds like food is on your side. Freedom is a big one in my house, especially with Ozzie, since he is motivated by nothing else. 

Have you tried doing any kind of nosework with her? One of the best things I ever did was teaching the 'find it' game. I incorporate basic obedience into it and Ozzie does it with ease because he gets to have fun finding things. 

Owning a hound can be incredibly frustrating, but I have learnt so much in the past 4 years. I feel much more prepared for whatever dog enters the house next.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

NRB said:


> do you leash the dog when you go outside? Take her to the potty spot, wait a minute?


She is leashed, and I wait 10 minutes. As a hound she gets distracted by the slightest scent..... And yes, we go to the exact same 15' x 15' area to go every time.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

+two, I must admit we have not played "find it"... I know a little bit about it from another thread. I truly wish I could get this dog figured out... she is such a nice dog, and for once, I have a dig that doesn't require that much brushing.... and she even lets me clip her nails with no issues. I used to get annoyed when she had her nightly case of the "Zoomies", but now I find it rather funny because she no longer does anything bad when she gets them.... all she does is run up and down the stairs about a dozen times.


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

Owning a hound can be incredibly frustrating, but I have learnt so much in the past 4 years. I feel much more prepared for whatever dog enters the house next.>>>>

I hear ya


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> Though, I don't know what her real deal is..... if SHE wants to, she seems to learn stuff really fast. If she doesn't want to, as of right now, it is a really frustrating experience. The longer we own her the more I am sure that she is really pretty smart, but stubborn beyond belief.


Well, yeah. I mean, doesn't everyone learn things they want to learn faster than they learn things they don't? I mean, I figure out the controls on a video game in 3 seconds flat, but I still don't know how to ECF file (work thing) and I've been "trying" for 5 years. Now, if someone made ECF filing as rewarding to me as video games, I'd totally have that down by now.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

the +R trainer I go to LOVES hounds, has 4, and claims that she will never get another breed. Now her dogs are all mixes from the local shelter, not 100% **** hounds. But anyway, she has them trained. They crate themselves if they want to go outside. and etc. She was the one who recommended that I use "Go Sniff" command as a reward when walking my dog. So I don't have to carry treats. I can get a nice heel for a 1/2 block then say good Girrlll "GO Sniff!" and let her nose around for a half minute then back in heel position. 

Can you make her go through you to get everything that she wants? Including sniffing. it's NILIF. So you might need a head halter (is only way to easily control the nose) or you could try a flat collar and see what it gets you. And you can always body block her to prevent her from sniffing. 

Personally I go outside and if the dog isn't peeing in first 20 seconds I'm Heading for the door. Crate and repeat. I'm pretty no nonsense about potty breaks. The dog pees, gets a treat, gets to play. No pee in a resonable amt of time then crate. I do potty breaks first thing, before I leave the house, whenever the dog rings the bell and last thing at night. And those potty breaks are pretty quick.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Pee is not the issue.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Papa Deuce said:


> Pee is not the issue.


I do same thing for pee or poop. I do Not walk this dog for ages to get her to poop. She rings bell, we go outside she sniffs for her spot then poops and she's done within a minute of walking out the door. After that I either give a food treat once inside. Or I stay outside,no food treat and take her to the back yard gate, do a sit stay (brief) and then let her play in the backyard as a reward.

If she WERE pooping inside then I'd tether her to me while I am home, or crate her.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

I did the tethering thing for months... it didn't work, so I stopped. For my own piece of mind I couldn't keep up the tethering. 

On a good note, she started training 2 Thursdays ago ( 2 classes so far plus homework ) and she has been MUCH BETTER in many areas..... 2 more classes to go.


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## Papa Deuce (Mar 26, 2007)

Alerondogs said:


> I'd suggest this book:
> http://www.amazon.com/When-Pigs-Fly-Training-Impossible/dp/1929242441/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330270964&sr=1-3


I started reading this last night.... about 20 pages in, I said to myself "This woman "gets" my dog."...... now today, I will start reading about how to go about the actual training. I'm pretty pumped up about the possibilities.


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

Personally I go outside and if the dog isn't peeing in first 20 seconds I'm Heading for the door.>>>>


whats the rush?


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## AugiesMomn (Nov 19, 2011)

Papa Deuce said:


> I started reading this last night.... about 20 pages in, I said to myself "This woman "gets" my dog."...... now today, I will start reading about how to go about the actual training. I'm pretty pumped up about the possibilities.


Awesome. I just added it to my amazon cart, I'll buy it tonight. 

As for what others have said, I've also cut down on the outside=playtime association by using a leash. No playing until they've peed/pooped. This was a big problem at night for me until I started putting a leash on them. I sure don't want to be playing in the backyard at 3am, and when they were younger, they thought that was acceptable. ^_^

And as for different kinds of dogs, boy, some dogs are different from others. After having a border collie mix for 10 years, having 2 hound mixes now is extremely different, they barely act like the same species of animal.


> whats the rush?


I think the other poster was just saying the dog should associate outside with eliminating. If you let them play all they want beforehand, they might think outside-playtime, and they could forget about the whole pee/poop outside thing.


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