# Suggestions for a first time dog owner?



## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

I am hoping I can get some feedback on what type of dog might be a good fit for my family. I have a 3 1/2 year old and a 8 1/2 year old. I rent and my land lord has been pretty agreeable about the dog thing but says no pit bulls or other "dangerous breeds" and would like some kind of "lab like" dog. Please note, i am not labeling the dogs as dangerous, it is just a really common thing around here to not allow "pit bull like" breeds, to the point I wouldn't even want a dog that might be mistaken for a pit bull because I don't ever want to have a housing conflict over my dog. I know it is a misconception but since we rent I can't really do much about that.

We want a dog that can:
Run with my husband (3-5 days a week)
play fetch with my 8 year old (though the adults will do it too)
Is very receptive to obedience training - I am possibly interested in advanced training, but I am a beginner, I have never trained a dog so I need a breed/dog that is very receptive to training. I might end up being interested in agility and/or therapy dog training
Is a "velcro dog" loves to be with it's people all the time
Is tolerant and trustworthy around children
Will enjoy being indoors with us most of the time, going outdoors with us when we go outdoors.
We homeschool and I want a dog that will be content to sit around and snuggle while we read but will be up for a rousing game of fetch during our "recesses" and breaks.

About us:
We live in a small duplex with a fairly large yard. Part of it is securely fenced but part of it isn't. A dog that can be trusted off leash would be nice but isn't an absolute necessity. We have never had a dog, I had dogs when I was a kid but not as an adult. The last time I lived with a dog I was 16 and that was over 15 years ago. We have two adult cats that we adopted 5 years ago, as adults (they are 10 and 6 now). It took us a while to bond with the cats to be honest but I can't imagine life without them now.

What we have considered:
A puppy from a breeder- This is still up for consideration. Possibly not the best option for us due to the long wait until it can jog and I have reservations about puppyhood and adolescence around a 3 year old.

An adult dog from a breeder- Downside here is that it could be a very long wait to find just the right adult dog from a reputable breeder that has raised the dog in a way we are comfortable with

An adult rescue- worried about the wild card factor here and unknown ancestry. We also actually don't have a ton of rescue dogs around here, many/most of them tend to be pit bulls or have pit bull ancestry My other issue here is that I don't know how open to obedience training any adult rescue that was not previously obedience trained will be. Can you really get an adult dog and expect it to pick up on advanced obeidence training? There is so much emphasis on how to mold the perfect dog from puppyhood that I worry any dog that hasn't had that special training from puppyhood will never really take to it later.

I realize all these have good sides too. An adult dog might be more ready for what we want out of a dog, and the temperament is more known, a rescue dog is a huge plus giving a dog that needs a home a good home (and I promise we really will be a fantastic dog home).

I tend to research to the extreme everything before I do it. I have read Before you get your puppy and just haven't settled on a breed.

The breeds we are looking at are:

We are not at all opposed to smaller dog breeds I just couldn't find too many that fit the bill for all our requirements. Anyone know of any other small dogs that might work?

Labrador Retriever
Golden Retriever
Springer Spaniel
Poodle
Papillion
Cavalier King Charles spaniel



Any feedback is greatly appreciated! I really want to make sure we do this right.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I think a poodle, labrador or golden retriever would all meet the needs you have listed. The benefit to a poodle is that it comes in three sizes though I would not recommend the toy for a home with small children. A miniature poodle is a great size for a family dog even in a smaller space. The down size with a poodle is going to be grooming needs, assume between $30 and $50 every 2 months (you don't have to keep them in a show cut just a basic puppy cut would be good for a family pet). All three breeds are generally known for being easy to train, "velcro" and generally tolerant of children. Labs and goldens do shed a good deal and particularly labs can take a long time to mature (they are very high energy/goofy puppy in that time) so that is something to keep in mind. All three should be able to be trained to be safe off lead. I admit I am a fan of poodles, we just adopted a miniature poodle/chi mix for my 8 year old (and we are also a homeschooling family) for his first dog (she makes our fifth dog but she is his responsibility). He will be training her and starting 4H with her, planning to do agility and possibly obedience or rally. She is an older puppy, 7months and has taken to training very well already. 

I don't have a lot of experience with spaniels so can't say much for trainability ect. I might be a little leery of a papillon with a 3year old only because small kids and small dogs can be an iffy mix. Papillons are high energy, certainly not lap dogs but if you want to get into agility I know there is at least one member here who does so with her Papillons. As far as the hounds go, some people claim that beagles are great family dogs others say not so much. I know that a lot of rescues will not adopt whippets or greyhounds to families with small children or cats. We looked at an ex-racer for my FIL who needed a walking companion, he is disabled (he's blind but gets around fine) but because the grandkids are at the house so often the rescue group told him no. Obviously individual dogs may be safe with cats but the rescue may not even consider you.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Thanks for the great reply. I am a little leery of any hound breed and may just cross them off my list before I do any looking. My 3 year old is actually quite sensitive and gentle, my 8 year old can be pretty rough and tumble (though she is very gentle with animals) so it might be better for us to get a bigger dog since I am really hoping (though not counting on) her and the dog bonding and possibly doing dog 4-H. The dog will be primarily mine but we will see where it goes with my 8 year old. 

I have heard lab pups are little "land sharks" just how bad is the nipping? I don't want my poor 3 year old to get mauled by a lap pup. Are poodles as mouthy/nippy as pups? How long does it take for the nippy part to fall away? I can deal with a high level of energy as long as it isn't accompanied by too many teeth.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Labs are mouthy and they are goofy/wild, essentially giant puppies for the first 3 years. Think 60-100lbs of dog that doesn't know it is that large. Bite inhibition needs to be trained big time. Dove doesn't nip at all, we have not had any biting issues with her. She is 7months old so past the puppy mouthy stage but she just isn't a mouthy dog and her original family did zero training with her past some minimal housebreaking. She does want to be in everyone's lap and licking on them, we need to work on that (the jumping and loving on people) but at 7lbs it just isn't a huge deal when she gets in your lap and licking is definitely preferable to biting. My son likes her in his lap so it is more a matter of calming her and teaching her when it is acceptable than actually preventing it altogether. All puppies nip some in the beginning, and all need taught bite inhibition but some are far mouthier than others. Teething goes on through about 6months but if not properly trained dogs will keep biting after that. That would be the nice thing about adopting an older dog assuming the owners had bothered to teach some manners. 

I actually chose a smaller dog because I wanted my son to be able to manage her easier. I had planned on the larger miniature poodle (around 20lbs) but when we found Dove in need of a home we adopted her. She has turned out to be quite perfect. He can handle taking her out to potty, bathing her, walking her (even though she isn't really leash trained yet) and anything else she needs. A larger dog, even a puppy, with no training would have been too much for him. Our husky mix has grown so fast she now weighs almost as much as him at only 4 months and though she works very hard it would be a lot for him to handle her now. I didn't want to have to train his dog, I wanted him to feel like he did it himself. I have done a small dog with little kids before though, we also have a chihuahua terrier mix that belongs to my 12year old. Really though I'm usually a big dog person, we have a 100lb dog (who is also my younger son's dog, all the dogs like him best LOL), a 55lb Carolina Dog, a husky mix puppy who will be large, and then the two little dogs. The catch with the big dogs is that they do tend to take longer to mature which means if you get them as puppies expect puppy behavior longer and it will be longer before your hubby can jog with the dog.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

I am also considering a cavalier king charles spaniel. I have read mixed things about jogging with them but it seems like it might be ok depending on the individual dog. That isn't absolutely essential, just a preference. It seems like they can be agility dogs and have great temperaments, and I am thinking it might be small enough that should my daughter desire she could handle her on her own. My husband dislikes how they look though ( I think they are cute !) and he doesn't much care for poodles, especially poodles with show cuts so I guess that is a consideration too.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I like your short list a lot but would stick to the larger dogs as Remaru suggested. 

Just want to comment on adult adoptions. I only adopt adolescent to adult dogs from a local kill shelter and have taken 2 through advanced agility training putting high level titles on both dogs. My first dog also was trained to the second level in competition obedience although she never trialed in obedience. Currently am working with a small dog that is estimated to be 5 years old and she will be ready to trial in 6 months or less after about a year of formal agility training. My experience is not unusual in the slightest, many of my agility friends started with rescued dogs and did well with them. It might be easier to raise a good canine citizen from a pup since of course you are going to do a great job socializing and be responsive to your particular pup's level of comfort as you do so but you certainly can do advanced training with an adult dog.


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## reigh (Aug 30, 2013)

I'll leave suggestions to others as far as breed, but will say I agree with the others, lab puppyhood can be long and sometimes painful, with both mixed and fullbloods. Lol. 



LadyAmalthea said:


> An adult rescue- worried about the wild card factor here and unknown ancestry. We also actually don't have a ton of rescue dogs around here, many/most of them tend to be pit bulls or have pit bull ancestry My other issue here is that I don't know how open to obedience training any adult rescue that was not previously obedience trained will be. Can you really get an adult dog and expect it to pick up on advanced obeidence training? There is so much emphasis on how to mold the perfect dog from puppyhood that I worry any dog that hasn't had that special training from puppyhood will never really take to it later.
> 
> I realize all these have good sides too. An adult dog might be more ready for what we want out of a dog, and the temperament is more known, a rescue dog is a huge plus giving a dog that needs a home a good home (and I promise we really will be a fantastic dog home).


As far as rescuing an adult dog... there are a ton of rescues that will arrange transport to your area. Although I, personally, would never want to adopt a dog that I couldn't meet beforehand. But we have no shortage of shelters here due to a severe overpopulation problem. If you do go this route, research as much as you would a breeder. We have adopted TWO dogs recently (from a HS, not a rescue--a lot of the rescues around here are difficult to deal with) and although it'd have been nice to have had more knowledge of their history if they'd experienced foster, aside from shelter dogs often being scared or anxious because they're in a shelter, our girls were pretty much WYSIWYG. I think training takes work no matter where your dog comes from and all dogs are different, but any dog can be trained. 

We have two cats two and were worried about how our first girl would deal with them. She's awesome, it's the second one, that we were told was okay with cats, who terrorizes them. She's getting much better about it though, but we're still keeping her close when we're in rooms where they're hanging out.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

My adopted-as-an-adult dog is doing very well in our obedience and rally classes, while my raised-from-a-pup dog is dumb as a stump, lord love her. It really depends on the dog.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Yep, agreeing with the others. Adult rescue dogs can learn just fine. There ARE dogs in shelters who have less than pleasant pasts and may be hard to train at first but in reality they are the minority. Most dogs that end up in shelters weren't abused, the owners may not have put much effort into training but actual abuse isn't very common. A lot of dogs get surrendered during their crazy adolescent stage when they are no longer a cute puppy and like to be obnoxious, others are surrendered due to financial trouble, death of owners, etc. 

There are a lot of owners of rescued dogs on this forum who have dogs excelling in dog sports like agility, rally, flyball, nosework, barn hunts, dock diving, etc. My own dog I got when he was 2 and he does nosework and barn hunt, we took an intro to agility class and he would do well there too but it's an expensive sport to do in my area. Go for whatever you feel more comfortable with but don't fear the old myth "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" because that just isn't true.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

We rescued our dog at about 12-16 months of age. For us, it was the perfect age because she was fully house broken and knew the basic, but is still a "puppy". She is so easy to train and because she's a bit older has more focus and can concentrate on training. 

An adolescent or adult dog would be great for children as it shouldn't be as mouthy as a pup and most likely will have developped some manners.

If you have any rescues that foster, I would suggest this route. You can do a trial and speak to someone who has lived with the dog in a home environement.

I think a lab mix or poodle would be perfect. They are smart, energetic, loving, and athletic.

Good luck!

Jewel is also our first dog and we also have 2 cats. She couldn't be a better match for us.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I would say a lab would fit into your household just fine.

They are very biddable, hardy dogs. Very forgiving of mistakes. Generally have the energy to keep up with what you're wanting.

Go to a shelter or a rescue, look for one that's around 2 or 3. Shelters tend to be full of them because people give up on them within the first year or so. You'll want to get an adult as a puppy cannot go running until they finish maturing. Labs are landsharks as puppies, and you may have to deal with some mouthiness from an adult. It's nothing that can't be worked with.

You may also be able to find an adult from a breeder. Don't shy away from contacting breeders and looking for one.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Labs sound like a good fit for you. Adult lab rescue sounds like the perfect fit- I am a lab lover and will be until the day I die but lab puppies are in a whole other category of awful, seriously. Breed specific rescue around 2-3 years old would be my choice. On my phone now so taking too long to type but I'll try to remember to come back and add more info.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Chichan (Apr 1, 2014)

*Labrador Retriever:*
*could easily keep up with your husband on a run (3-5 days a week)
*they love to retriever-can play fetch for hours and love it
*extremely easy to train
*likes to be around people
*excellent with children 
*good outdoor and indoor
*fairly active indoors
*does well at least in an averaged sized yard
*not known to be unreliable off leash after trained

Overall a good fit

-Puppies are known to be hellish in the puppy-teenaged stage
-Are known to be very mouthy and in your face
-Average shedder--almost no grooming needed


*Golden Retriever:*
*could easily keep up with your husband on a run (3-5 days a week)
*they love to retriever-can play fetch for hours and love it
*extremely easy to train
*needs to be around people
*excellent with children  
*good outdoor and indoor
*moderately active indoors
*best with a large yard
*not known to be unreliable off leash after trained

Overall a good fit

-Puppies are known to be hellish in the puppy-teenaged stage
-Are known to be very mouthy and in your face
-Heavy shedder--need regular grooming

*English Springer Spaniel:*
*could easily keep up with your husband on a run (3-5 days a week)
*they love to retriever-can play fetch for hours and love it
*easy to train
*needs to be around people
*good with children 
*good outdoor and indoor
*relatively active indoors
*does well at least in an averaged sized yard
*not known to be unreliable off leash after trained

Overall a good fit

-Needs to be socialized
-Average shedding--needs regular grooming
-Prone to separation anxiety

*Standard Poodle:*
*could easily keep up with your husband on a run (3-5 days a week)
*they love to retriever-can play fetch for hours and love it
*extremely easy to train
*needs to be around people
*excellent with children 
*good outdoor and indoor
*relatively active indoors
*does well at least in a small sized yard
*not known to be unreliable off leash after trained

Overall a good fit

-Needs to be socialized
-Non/light shedding--needs daily grooming
-Will need some professional grooming (every 6 weeks)

*Papillon:*
*would depend on the individual Pap but most are known for good stamina 
*would need to be taught to retrieve 
*extremely easy to train
*needs to be around people
*best with older children 
*good outdoor and indoor
*fairly active indoors
*no yard needed
*not known to be unreliable off leash after trained

Overall a good fit

-Needs to be socialized
-Average shedder--fringe needs to be groomed daily to avoid matting 
-Fragility 

*Cavalier King Charles Spaniel:*
*would depend on the individual dog, but would likely be able to keep up on a run
*would need to be taught to retrieve 
*moderately easy to train
*needs to be around people
*best with older children 
*good outdoor and indoor
*moderately active indoors
*does well in at least a small sized yard
*has a chasing instinct and would need a fenced yard

Overall a moderate fit

-Needs to be socialized
-Average shedder--regularly grooming needed
-Prone to separation anxiety


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Thank you so much for your feedback, that really helps me lay it out and I think a lab is probably going to be the best fit for us. I am considering a 10 month old purebed lab. She is a bit younger than I was thinking and I know we would have to endure that awful teenage lab stage but it sounds like she might be a good fit for us, we might go meet her this weekend and see what we think. We are proceeding with extreme caution because I do not want to make a mistake. I have some other possibilities but haven't heard back from anyone, mostly right now I am looking at breeders that are rehoming older dogs. I am also looking at purebred dog rescues. There are a few that are 6-8 years old. I know labs are known for being energetic their entire lives but will a 6-8 year old lab still be a good fit for us? 

I love springers but I think I am going to cross them off just because I want a dog that will be mostly calm when in doors (after some proper exercise outdoors of course). A dog bouncing around and trying to play fetch during reading lessons wouldn't be ideal. We have quite a bit of outdoor space but our indoor space is fairly small. The smaller breeds I may pass on because I have a small child. I am really intrigued by cavalier king charles spaniels because I keep reading about what a wonderful loving temperament they have but it doesn't sound like they are quite what we are looking for.

If I am looking at lab mixes any advice on the mix? There are tons and tons of lab/collie mixes around here but I am trying to stay away from the herding breeds because of my 3 year old.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

Our dog's best puppy friend is a lab/pointer/? mix and he would be perfect for a family like yours. Our dogs are the same age so we often make comparisons. They have play dates where they wrestle, play tug, and run around, then collapse and look like they're spooning and kiss each other... it's a serious bromance. However, I'll get a text from his owners later saying their dog passed out when they got home while our dog will be ready for a game of fetch. Their dog is fine with their cat and has a very good nature. I adore our poodle mix and wouldn't trade him for anything, but he was definitely a mouthy puppy with tons of energy that tested our patience. However, I can say he adores kids and is extremely tolerant of them steeling his toys, accidentally stepping on him, hugging and laying on him... he eats it up! He's also very smart and loyal, just lots and lots of energy! (Keep in mind he's mixed with std schnauzer and they're also high energy)


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

My sister in law had a lab, she just passed last year at 14. She slowed down at 10 and really couldn't do much at that point. Her hips got bad (arthritis) and so running and fetching really weren't an option anymore. Larger dogs tend to age worse than smaller dogs (this isn't always true but arthritis certainly hits harder when you carry more weight). Our big dog is only soon to be 8 and he can't really keep up on a jog anymore and he certainly hurts the next day. It could be poor breeding in his case, we know nothing about his breeder (he is a registered purebred but we are his second home so...) but it is probably just age catching up to him. I know my sister in laws lab did still swim some but she had quit that in her later years.

ETA: I wouldn't be too worried about a collie if you mean rough collie. Most lines are bred more towards show and family homes and other than barking (and grooming) should be very family friendly. Border collie would be more of a concern for energy levels and possibly nipping/herding.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Good to know about the older labs, I think we will confine our search to labs and lab mixes under 4 years old. There is a super cute australian shepard mix at our humane society right now that is 10 months old. Everything else is small breeds or pitts, she is cute but we hadn't even considered an australian shepard.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

LadyAmalthea said:


> I know labs are known for being energetic their entire lives but will a 6-8 year old lab still be a good fit for us?


I love that age. Old enough to have calmed down and to know their business, but young enough to get out and be active. Comfortably middle-aged. To me the only downside of a dog that old is that it's halfway through their lifespan, and our time with them is already short enough. But on the other hand...this might sound callous, but I don't think it's always a bad thing to only have a, say, ~6 year commitment rather than a ~14 year commitment...it's a lot easier to predict what one's living situation will be over the shorter timespan.



> If I am looking at lab mixes any advice on the mix? There are tons and tons of lab/collie mixes around here but I am trying to stay away from the herding breeds because of my 3 year old.


I don't have advice on a specific breed mix, but rather a caution about making assumptions about mixes in general - they may mostly take after one breed, the other, or the traits may combine in unusual ways (which may be serendipitous or problematic depending on the combination and the situation). So it's not safe to assume that a, say, lab/husky cross is going to be have, say, the energy level or trainability midway between the average lab and the average husky. Of course all dogs must be looked at as individuals, but I would say mixes doubly so, as the breed standards go totally out the window, lol.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

It's threads like this that make me hate breed bias so much. Not saying you have breed bias, but the bias that prevents you from having certain breeds. A pit or pit mix hits all your requirements perfectly.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

I don't have any beef with pitts but because I rent I need to be flexibile. My landlord is already being really generous in letting us have a dog (we have 2 cats already). Most rentals around here have ridiculous breed restrictions just kinda how it is.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

A generic lab mix or maybe a shepherd mix would also be good. I agree with staying away from herding breeds and baby puppies. I never recommend puppies to a first time dog owner, ESP one with kids. 

That being said, have you considered a rescue greyhound? They are actually very low energy and only need a good run once a day (running with your husband would probably do the trick) they are quiet in the house and are forgiving.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Greyhound was actually originally on my list but I really want a dog that enjoys fetch and I am not too sure about the thin skin with my kids, and I heard they can be difficult with cats.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Some can be difficult with cats but it doesn't hurt to check them out, worst thing they will tell you is no. Fetch is really more of a drive thing then a breed thing. My ACDs are better at fetch than any retriever I have seen, they would play fetch til they dropped dead if I let them. 

Another option is waiting til your youngest kid is older and out of the clumsy grabby stages before getting a dog, you have waited this long and it couldn't hurt to maybe wait just a little longer. I also recommend, if you can, to fence in the remainder of your yard if you can or talk to your landlord about constructing a fenced area where the dog can be and use the bathroom


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

We have a giant dog "run" I hesitate to call it a run because it is so big, not at all what most people picture as a dog run, it is probably about 10ft across and 100ft long. It is huge. All sides near the road are fenced but we are going to talk to him about the possiblity of putting up a fence around the rest of the yard. My 3 year old is actually by nature a really careful kid. Thanks for the feedback about greyhounds, I might look in to them again.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

If he is careful then a dog like a greyhound should be great. I don't know if they like fetch or not but they do like going on runs and would love biking and roller blading (I can't remember if you mentioned that lol). You will have to check with the rescue for sure but I have known some people who have adopted these dogs and some of them don't have the prey drive necessary for racing (because they chase a mechanical bunny) but it's worth looking into, all they can do it tell you no 

It's a shame your landlord says no to the bully breeds because they are usually GREAT with kids, most are active enough to satisfy your hubby's wants and needs for an exercise partner and your needs for a Good family dog. Maybe you could work out some sort of deal with him to foster a bully breed dog and see how it goes.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I suggest a 2 - 5 yo rescue Lab that has lived with kids and has some training, if possible. A 6 - 8 yo Lab should be a great fit - calmer and laid back, but still energetic. [My Lab mix did not slow down until he was 12 - 13 yo!]

A 10 mo Lab could be a good fit, depending on his history, training, etc. You'd have to see how he is with kids and dogs....


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

I am going to go to the shelter tomorrow and meet a couple of dogs, one is an English Setter. It sounds like they might be a bit harder to train but otherwise a good fit? Do they have a natural drive to fetch? We have decided we would like a rescue dog if possible, though that does limit how picky we can be on breed.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

It's not so much the breed (though that does play a role) as it is the temperament of the dog that is mostly important. It also is worth mentioning that a dog can take up to a year to show their true temperament, our rescue dog, buddy took a year to show us his real temperament.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Any tips for evaluating the temperament of a dog best as I can in the short time I will have with it at a shelter? Any links that might be helpful? The english setter mix we are specifically going to see is a little over a year old. We were looking at petfinder and found the sheer number of dogs that need homes saddening and overwhelming so we would really like to give one of them a home if we can, but of course for the dogs sake and our own we need to try to do what we can to ensure good fit.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

LadyAmalthea said:


> Any tips for evaluating the temperament of a dog best as I can in the short time I will have with it at a shelter? Any links that might be helpful? The english setter mix we are specifically going to see is a little over a year old. We were looking at petfinder and found the sheer number of dogs that need homes saddening and overwhelming so we would really like to give one of them a home if we can, but of course for the dogs sake and our own we need to try to do what we can to ensure good fit.


Your best bet is to talk with the people at the shelter, they know the dogs, where they came from, etc. In some cases the dogs have been in foster homes, so the foster parent can tell you all about the dog and their quirks.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Several of my friends run lab or lab mix rescues in agility. I would look for a smaller one that is lighter weight and go from there. Labs and goldens are pretty popular in the sport and do well. 

Paps are great but can be fragile with a 3 year old. I have one that loves kids and one that does not (but had not seen them until she was 3 years old herself). All the paps we raised picked up fetch very fast but my older one (did not raise) doesn't get the game. Mia would fetch for hours.

Retriever or a small spaniel though would fit really nicely, I think.


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## minireb123 (Apr 17, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> It's threads like this that make me hate breed bias so much. Not saying you have breed bias, but the bias that prevents you from having certain breeds. A pit or pit mix hits all your requirements perfectly.


I was thinking the same exact thing ireth0! Unfortunately, I was just in OP's situation dealing with the breed/weight restriction thing and it's a real pain. My girlfriend and I had already decided to adopt an adult rescue (as two graduate students it made sense for our situation) and looked through about 50 different apartment listings until we found the one we're living in now. I would say 90% of the apartments we looked at had some sort of breed/weight restriction which was really really annoying since 90% of the shelter dogs were pits/pit mixes. Let's just say we had some words for those landlords haha. 

Anyway, as someone who very recently adopted an adult shelter dog they are really trainable (as everyone in this thread has already said) and if you can frequently visit a particular dog at a rescue I highly recommend it. Our new pit was at a no kill shelter and we visited her weekly for more than a month to spend time with her and see how her personality was. Since we adopted her, she's been great and it's been an extremely easy transition so far. She plays when we want to play and she loves going on walks/jogs and when we're just hanging out she sleeps. When you go to the shelter though I would pay particular attention to how the dog reacts to your 3 year old. A lot of shelter dogs have never been exposed to young children and some of them react badly by barking loudly or getting overexcited. In my experience, it seems like the majority of shelter dogs jump up when they see people simply because they haven't been trained not to but you can see why that would be a problem with having a 3 year old. Some of the dogs also just don't do well with shelter life so they can be more anxious and stressed out there. 

I would ask people who work at the shelter for recommendations on dogs that would fit your situation and I would try to visit multiple shelters to open up your options. As great as my rescue is, I wouldn't recommend her going to a family with small children because of how big she is and the fact that she is very strong and had to be trained not to jump up on people. It's great you're considering a rescue/shelter dog but don't feel bad for being a little picky! Hold out for the rescue that feels right to you and make sure it's a great fit for your family before you commit. I know this isn't that helpful but when I saw my rescue at the shelter I kind of just knew she was the perfect fit for us through the way she greeted us and paid attention to us. Shelters will usually let you take the dog outside for a walk or something and you can see how they react to you then. If you're really interested in adopting they should let you have them out for a while which gives them time to calm down more.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

When you go evaluate the dog, try to do it in two steps: first, see how you like the dog and how he interacts with you. Then, if things go OK, bring the family and other pets for the same testing.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Well we went down there and didn't even end up looking at the English setter. There was a lab mix that just became available this morning and we feel in love and brought her home. All their pets are on a 30 day trial basis so you have time to make sure they can get along with your other pets ect. They say she is a 2-3yo lab/great pyr mix. She is only 58lbs and her hair is short so I'm not sure I see the great pyr. Whatever she is she's cute and very calm with the kids so far things are going very well.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Cool! Hope everything works out.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Sounds like you found a good match. You know you need to share pictures now.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Well I am going to call the shelter and talk to the behaviorist line they have in the morning because she was fine there but when she found a high value item (a nylabone chew she likes) she started growling and barking at my 3 year old just for walking near her  She also super duper hates cats, and my cats are too stupid to run away they just sit there. We of course have kept her leashed or crated for just this reason but she will be snarling lunging and snapping and my dopey cats don't even try to run off.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

LadyAmalthea said:


> Well I am going to call the shelter and talk to the behaviorist line they have in the morning because she was fine there but when she found a high value item (a nylabone chew she likes) she started growling and barking at my 3 year old just for walking near her  She also super duper hates cats, and my cats are too stupid to run away they just sit there. We of course have kept her leashed or crated for just this reason but she will be snarling lunging and snapping and my dopey cats don't even try to run off.


Yes Pyrs can be food/treat possessive, and labs are known chow hounds. Food aggression is a tough one for a family with kids (we have a mostly pyr cross as well)...
I like the idea of a younger dog, even a 6 month old pup, that way its still growing and (imo) its a bit easier to mold into the dog it will become, for ex the cat issue (we have 3 dogs, 4 -now- 3 cats, and an 11 yr old, but we did have 2 young dogs when she was born)...


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

At 58lbs she doesn't sound like she could be a pyr mix though, unless she is super undernourished. I would talk seriously with the shelter. Normally I am big on working with a dog but with small children and food/resource guarding plus the cats she may not be the best fit.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Here is a pic of her


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## Chichan (Apr 1, 2014)

LadyAmalthea said:


> Here is a pic of her


 I definitely see the Lab, not really the Pyr though


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

So far the only thing she guards is this one particular bone, also sticks she really didn't want to give up a stick she found in the yard yesterday. Everything else she is just fine with you taking ect.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Oh maybe the badger markings and top of her head is vaguely Pyr ish (but I think alot of breeds might have that look)--

whoever said its not about the breed but the dog, said it best I think...

but again,
with kids the age of yours I am not sure I would risk it, you dont have eyes in the back of the head and 2 kids plus dog that may bite-- well you only got 2 arms and theres 3 of them....


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

The shelter gave some advice I am not so sure is good advice. The lady I talked to said to stomp my feet really loud, yell and spray water in her face whenever she growls at the kids or the cats and let her know it isn't ok. But that it is up to us and we have 30 days to bring her back. So I am not sure what to do, she is really sweet but you are absolutely right that I have 2 hands and 2 eyes, for now she is crated or on a leash but I don't want this to be a permanent situation.

She also seems like she might be dog aggressive. Which won't work good for us since we want her to be able to participate in things that other dogs will be at. I am basing this on the fact that when she was sitting in the car with me while my husband ran in the store she growled and barked at every dog she saw, and we walked her out to the mail box and she growled and barked at the neighbors dogs. How likely is that to ease up on it's own? We need a dog friendly dog, would a dog friendly dog be barking at strange dogs? I know she is incredibly stressed and out of sorts right now so maybe it isn't the best judge of her behavior?


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

That is bad advice, I would never suggest that. For resource guarding I would work on giving her treats, just while she has whatever it is she is guarding walk by tossing really high value items like meat or "smelly treats" (I buy zukes rabbit for Remus, he loves it). Work up to her not growling when you walk by because she knows you are only there to give her something good. You progress slowly from there and you have to work on it with every member of the family and with everything. I agree with Bernermax though, you are one person and you have little kids, you just never know what she may become reactive too. What if your youngest drops something and reaches for it and she goes for it too? Too risky for me. I had this wonderful shiba mix foster I wanted to keep so badly when my youngest was about 2. She was a great dog and I really loved her. She was one of those hard to win over dogs but I thought she was going to be perfect for us. Then she started resource guarding _me_. My youngest son couldn't walk into the room without her growling at him. She didn't want him anywhere near me. She also started chasing our cat (had ignored her to that point). The final straw was when she chased my oldest son across the room jumping on him and grabbing his shirt. Duke had to knock her down and hold her. We were all in the same room but I couldn't get them apart fast enough. She wasn't a big dog and she didn't really hurt him but she did scare him. She was placed in a home without children. It just isn't something I'm comfortable with. 

As far as the barking at other dogs. Some dogs that are perfectly fine with other dogs bark when they are on leash or in a car. Remus barks on leash but loves other dogs. He is leash reactive. Dove is the same way, she isn't even really leash reactive just very excitable. No one taught her how to handle her excitement and I don't think she was well socialized when she was a tiny puppy. We're working on it. It could be that she is just stressed from the shelter and all of the "new" or she may be a bit DA. I would probably be most concerned about the resource guarding and her reaction to your cats.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

I think she is going back  It is hard because she is such a sweetie and could be perfect but I could also see her becoming very "guardy" like that. She already seems to want to "guard" us and anything else she likes from the cats, so I could see that transfering in bad ways to other things. She is weird about the cats now that shes a bit more used to them , half the time she just wags her tail at them but if they get too close it very quickly changes to angry dog who wants cats to die barking and lunging. Especially if her favorite bone is nearby. She REALLY does not want the cats near her bone, and she sort of eyes my little son the same way she does the cats and I wonder if he is little enough to engage her prey drive a little the same as the cats.

So I think she is going back tomorrow morning and we will have to think on where we want to go from here. I am torn on the puppy issue, I know puppies and small kids are not always a good mix but it seems like it might be a slightly better mix than an unknown adult dog. Perhaps the ideal situation would be if we can find a dog that has been fostered rather than living in a shelter.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I am sorry, it can be really hard. With a puppy or an adult dog you can stand to have issues. We've taken the gamble on adult dogs and won big time. Duke is an amazing dog, I don't think there are 1 in 100 like him or that could do what he does and put up with what he puts up with. We took on a foster elderly Great Dane (we didn't realize she was quite as old as she was when we took her on but she was still a good girl) and she was good as gold too. Patient, kind, forgiving, loved cats and other dogs, and absolutely adored my autistic son. Unfortunately she was not with us long, giant dogs have all too short of lives and if I had it to do over I might not have. I've also done puppies with a toddler. I fostered a whole litter and mom too when my youngest was about two (just before the foster that I wanted to keep but couldn't). We wound up keeping one of those puppies and she is a wonderful little dog all these many years later. There are no guarantees with a puppy obviously. You can adopt a sweet and cuddly puppy that grows into a dog that is a hyper mess or that doesn't particularly like kids. I tend to think that being raised with children, assuming the kids aren't allowed to terrorize the dog, most dogs will generally like at least the children they live with. All 5 of mine do and they are not all from breeds generally considered to be child friendly. Blue wasn't even very well socialized and I did very little training with her. That would be the other consideration with a puppy with a 3 year old, there is just so much time in training a puppy. Three year olds are far easier than younger toddlers though, I think it can be done if you want to do it. It is all a matter of management and I wouldn't choose a breed known for rough puppyhoods.

Another option I think we have talked about before would be an older puppy or young adult from a breeder. I have a friend who adopted a 1year old Newfie from a breeder. His original family returned him, I guess they fell on hard times and couldn't afford his care. She could not be happier with him. He is everything she wanted and she got to skip most of the puppy thing. The breeder had a return clause in her contract and my friend adopted him for a nominal fee with a similar contract as if she had adopted from a rescue plus the support of the breeder in caring for him. I know some one else who did something similar with a young male Great Dane, he came to her straight from the trainer that had been working with him. So far they are very happy as well. Some breeders will do a certain amount of breed rescue or have older pups of their own that washed out of showing and they are looking to place in pet homes or were returned under contracts. It is worth looking into if you are interested in that.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

I know I sound like a broken record, but when there's a family with small kids and other animals that want a large dog, I have to recommend a collie. They're (generally) great with kids, protective of their kids, but not aggressive. They're good with small critters like small dogs, bunnies and cats. They are energetic, but have a good in house "off switch". They love to learn and they're good off leash. They "grow up" quicker than labs and are not usually quite as rambunctious as puppies.

The downside? They may try to herd running groups of kids and can sometimes nip. They can also be barky. One of mine is and one isn't but both will alert me to people, deer, and the odd squirrel that is in the area.

If you don't think you can handle the full "Lassie" coat, they come in a short haired variety (see my sig).


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

The herding and nipping is what concerns me about collies. How bad is it really? Do collie pups nip much?(in general?)


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I love both collies and shelties, I can't say anything bad about them. I think they are far less mouthy than many other breeds and being quick to learn and biddable they pick up on training faster so puppy nipping tends to be shorter lived if you deal with it appropriately. My sheltie did not nip for long as a puppy (she did go through a normal chewing phase, we kept shoes locked up for a long time even after we really didn't need to) and I don't remember my friend's collie nipping either. The only complain I ever had was the coat care. I would love another sheltie except I remember that coat. I would certainly consider a smooth coated collie though. My girl never did the herding and nipping thing, I think it is less common in shelties and collies than many of the other herding breeds.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Yup I second checking around with breeders who have young adults or older pups that need to be placed-- and x3 on the smooth collie- I have never heard of them being nearly as intensely herdy/nippy as the other breeds...


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Collies are probably the least intense of the herding group. The nipping isn't as bad as shelties or Aussies. They have a gentler style of herding and tend to guide more than snap.

Smoothies do shed. They're double coated and blow their coat at least twice a year. But you don't have to deal with the grooming, mats and foliage collection of the roughs. I would die for Toby, my rough guy, but if I get another collie it will be another smooth.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Border collies are completely different and super hyper all the time and constantly herding right? It seems like mostly there are border collies and border collie breeders around here but I am looking in to collie breeders. I just got complacent with Daisy on leash and she came so close to getting my cat and my daughter was in between the two. A bit of a wake up call. She would be a real sweetheart in a home with no cats but the thought of her going after my cats when my kids are in her way...

I still don't know what we are going to do. I know she needs time to acclimate to the cats but the fervor with which *edited* for a more accurate description, desires to eat them/chase them away, is disturbing.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes border collies are completely different. They are usually more high drive and while they can be really great for things like agility, disc dog, fly ball, ect I wouldn't really recommend one for a home with little kids. A rough collie is like Lassie and a smooth collie is the short coated version. 

What you are seeing is most likely prey drive. It isn't that she hates the cats she just thinks they are meant to be hunted down and eaten. At least that would be my best guess from your descriptions and not seeing it. It is hard to say if she would hurt your children if they got in her way.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Yeah my post was poorly thought out. I think shes fine with kids, not with cats. If the cats are on the ground she goes nuts trying to get them. If she sees a kid touching a cat in her view she REALLY freaks out. She does not like anyone touching the cats. It looks like she has some possible scars on her nose, maybe from cat scratches? So maybe she thinks she is protecting us or is being territorial. Either way I think this is too much with a 3 year old in the house too


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## minireb123 (Apr 17, 2014)

Aw I'm sorry to hear about your bad cat experience with the rescue dog  In any case, as someone who's usually very pro-rescue/shelter dog I'm going to suggest you either get an older dog/puppy from a breeder (as suggested before) or if you want to stay with rescue dogs then you'll have to look for a dog who is already being fostered in a family with young children (and hopefully cats!). The fact that your child is only 3 years old is really the reason why I wouldn't suggest a shelter dog because the vast majority of them just aren't used to children enough and 3 is too small to safely introduce the two in my opinion. I always cringe when I see families with small children taking home very rambunctious 1 and 2 year old shelter dogs because I know the kid is going to be pushed down a lot and might get scratched by accident and the parents are going to find it hard to train the dog not to do that for a while. If I were a parent with small children, I would honestly be very uncomfortable taking in a large untrained dog. But anyway, good luck with your continued searching!


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Well we still have her until probably Wednesday because of my husbands work schedule. So I am working with her, keeping her crated or on leash. She really dislikes the cats still. I am not sure if it is prey drive, fear or what but she even reacts to the word "cat". She also growled at my husband last night because she had brought her bone out of her crate (this was after the kids were in bed and we locked up the cats) when he tried to put the bone back in the crate. 

Talking to some friends I get the impression that they feel like this is just a regular thing for rescue dogs. Is that the case? Is this "normal" dog behavior? Do all dogs resource guard to some degree?


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

LadyAmalthea said:


> She also seems like she might be dog aggressive. Which won't work good for us since we want her to be able to participate in things that other dogs will be at. I am basing this on the fact that when she was sitting in the car with me while my husband ran in the store she growled and barked at every dog she saw, and we walked her out to the mail box and she growled and barked at the neighbors dogs. How likely is that to ease up on it's own? We need a dog friendly dog, would a dog friendly dog be barking at strange dogs? I know she is incredibly stressed and out of sorts right now so maybe it isn't the best judge of her behavior?


I'm sorry that she might not work out, but I also wanted to let you know that growling and barking when seeing another dog does not always equate to dog-aggression. It is often be barrier frustration or "Reactivity" - the dog sees another dog and wants to go see it/greet it but can't because of the window or the leash, so it gets frustrated and barks instead.

Snowball is barrier/leash reactive but is totally fine with dogs. He is even fine on the leash if he gets to meet the other dog, but we try to avoid that because it reinforces the barking/growling. When he's barking in the car he sounds like he wants to murder all other dogs, but he has two different growls/barks for aggression and excitement. The former is much lower, the latter is higher pitched and much more frantic and the growly sounds usually end in whines.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

No, all dogs do not resource guard to some degree and I have had many rescues that did not. Not a single one of my dogs resource guards at all. They will let each other know that they would prefer the other not take a bone but it is all dog language and they don't actually fight. I can walk up to any one of my dogs and take food or a toy out of their mouths and they let me do it. Remus is more playful than the others and thinks any time I try to take a toy I'm actually initiating a game but he isn't guarding he is trying to play (he races around the yard and if I don't chase him he play bows for me several times and drops the toy to yodel at me in an attempt to entice me to chase). Now that being said, resource guarding isn't uncommon or unheard of, doesn't make her a bad dog, however in a home with small children it isn't something I would be willing to risk.


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## minireb123 (Apr 17, 2014)

Oh no resource guarding is definitely not just a rescue dog thing. It can develop in puppies and adult dogs of all sizes and breeds. I do think some breeds may be prone to it but it can be controlled with proper training. Neither of my dogs resource guard and I've had one since she was a puppy and the other I adopted recently from the shelter. Ruby has never resource guarded her food or toys from me but I can think of a few random times she did growl when someone tried to take something directly from her mouth (in both cases the person was someone who didn't live in our house and was just visiting so I chalked it up to her slight suspicion of all strangers). On the other hand, my rescue dog is extremely good with letting anyone take anything from her at any time. She basically lets us do anything we want and she's never growled or protested at all. 

Resource guarding has always been one of those issues I always worried about because of how quickly it can get out of hand if it isn't managed but it's good you're keeping a close eye on her for now especially since you have children in the house.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

I think she is a great dog, which makes it a hard choice. I think she might learn to be fine with other dogs. I am not so sure about learning to be fine with cats, and yes the resource guarding with a small child in the house concerns me. It is really too bad because she is such a sweetie but this is an issue I am really unprepared to deal with with little kids and as a first time dog owner.

If we take her back to the shelter I am not sure what we will do from there. I have looked up all the lab breeders in the area to see if anyone has partly trained adult dogs but I seem to always just miss them. I might hang in there and wait for one of those. It seems to be a tall order to find a partly trained adult dog that has been raised with cats and children though. Most of the dogs I have found that breeders are rehoming seem to have spent most of their time outdoors.


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## minireb123 (Apr 17, 2014)

Yeah that seems like a good idea! There's no rush when you're looking for a good family dog  Make sure the breeders know you're looking for a lab that already has experience with young children too! Oh and don't worry about it. Resource guarding can become a very serious issue if not handled correctly so your concern is definitely not misplaced. It is a shame since she seems like a great dog besides that issue but on a list of all the possible behavioral issues a dog can have, resource guarding is pretty high on my personal "wouldn't be able to handle" list.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

LadyAmalthea said:


> Talking to some friends I get the impression that they feel like this is just a regular thing for rescue dogs. Is that the case? Is this "normal" dog behavior? Do all dogs resource guard to some degree?


My rescue doesn't resource guard at all and my non-rescue does. Well, he doesn't anymore. But the tendency is there.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Well I am 99% sure she is going to go back next week. We will see how things go over the next few days. If she goes back I guess we are back and square one starting all over reconsidering breed ect.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

It could have been a lot worse, but to my horror the dog managed to break open her spay incision today. We were planning to take her back this afternoon anyway but my husband had to rush home from work early so that we could get her to the shelter vet pronto. Blood all over everything, it was absolutely terrible.  They said she will be ok but I was a mess by the time we got her there. that was HORRIBLE. I kept her crated and quiet and was very careful with her but she just couldn't handle the cats and any time she smelled them or thought she saw them she went bonkers barking. I am guessing all that strenuous barking is what did it 

I put in an application on a puppy before all this went down because I knew she would be going back (just not quite in such an emergency terrible fashion). I am not sure if we want a puppy or not but I figured I would at least get in line because these guys will likely go fast.. Here is the profile if anyone cares to offer some feedback: http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/29194337


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

For me personally my order of dog acquisition is this: shelter/rescue adult > reputable breeder puppy > shelter/rescue puppy, primarily due to level of knowledge of the dog's temperament and health.

That pup is awfully cute, though.


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## LadyAmalthea (Mar 30, 2014)

Yeah I am still not sure I want to jump in with a pup. I might just wait until I can find a rescue that has been fostered in a home with kids and cats. I just can't bear to bring home another dog that can't handle cats. That was one of the worst experiences of my life.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Well the benefit to the puppy is that in all likelihood the worst he will do is chase the cats and that can be curbed pretty quickly with proper management and training. The down side is that he is a puppy, lots of training and the rescue seems pretty uncertain what breed you are actually looking at. If you are up for it no big deal but you are looking at 2-3months of house training and then at least a year or two of basic training. It isn't impossible though.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Waiting a while for exactly the right dog is worthwhile, IMO. After all, it'll be part of the family for hopefully over a decade.


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## Darby (May 9, 2014)

I don't know too many of them and I know they haven't been brought up but the boxer's I know are great. My old babysitter rescued and adult named buster and he's around lots of kids anywhere from infants to 12 years old and he's perfect (can't knock over the kids with his non existent tail.) He can be a little overprotective though. The other I know is a rescue who lives on a farm with cats, chickens, ducks, cows, horses, other dogs, peacocks, you name it she has it. There are constantly visitors as she gives lessons and occasionally hosts horse shows and she does some agility with her dogs. These may just be individuals of their breed but just giving my input there.

Our two dogs are rescues that we raised from pups and they couldn't be any better. The mother was lab/chow and the father was maybe a boxer or a pit and they are just great. Might I point out that while my dogs either ignore our cats or are submissive to them they do get excitable and want to chase others we pass on our walks. They were extremely easy to train but one used to nip when she was young while the other to this day will get your hand in her mouth but has never bitten. One while freaked out about a deer growled at my mom and almost bit her. Ours have plenty of play in them even in their older years but they can be shy towards strangers(especially men) and one will shy away from kids while the other chokes herself to love on them a little too exuberantly where as they were perfect with me as an older kid around 7-8. The shy one will tire herself out playing fetch but the other one literally did it once in her life and never did it again. They are full blooded sisters but are polar opposites. Each dog is its own person so don't put too much weight in breed standards and you have to be aware that their stress levels can significantly influence their behavior.

I think you did the right thing for you in the case of the lab mix and don't feel so bad about pursuing a breeder dog because breeder's puppies and dogs need homes too.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

LadyAmalthea said:


> I put in an application on a puppy before all this went down because I knew she would be going back (just not quite in such an emergency terrible fashion). I am not sure if we want a puppy or not but I figured I would at least get in line because these guys will likely go fast.. Here is the profile if anyone cares to offer some feedback: http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/29194337


That puppy is adorable. I have to say that we don't have any regrets about adopting a rescue puppy. His personality perfectly matched the rescue description on petfinder. He's gregarious and fun loving, has never shown the slightest sign of possession aggression/resource guarding, and has loved every person and dog he has met. We don't have cats because I'm allergic, but based on other threads I've read it seems that dogs raised with cats can get along with their housemates perfectly fine but may chase unknown cats if they have that drive. My neighbor's lab mix puppy that's the same age as mine just keeps his distance from their cat. I think you have a good chance of training peace between the two species along with all the other puppy training of what is and isn't okay in your house. I think getting a young dog from a breeder or rescue where they've been exposed to cats and kids is a great idea, but if you're up for the challenge of working with a puppy then a rescue puppy like the one you applied for isn't a bad option in my opinion.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Continue looking at Labs, if you return this one. Labs are plentiful, and many folks have to give up their well-trained dogs for various non-dog reasons - moving, illness, etc. If you specify cats, children, and housetrained, you'll get closer to what you need.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Lab or Lab x other gundog is a good choice. I think you may find herding dogs (Aussie, BC, etc.) a little too nervy and insufficiently tolerant . . . but maybe not.
With older dogs, you really need to get to know them as individuals. With pups, get to know as much as you can about the temperament that runs in their lines. I run about 3 miles a day with three Labs, aged 9 yr 9 mo, 5 yr, and 9 mo. They are mother, daughter, and granddaughter. The old girl is fine with the run, and still ready to play with the others after running. She neither tires nor limps, nor has she ever. But her hips and elbows were scored as excellent, so she has little propensity for arthritis. Some Labs go inactive by five or six. The pup is not a landshark, though she has chewed up a few pieces of old pine furniture that I don't care about very much. I could have stopped her if I'd cared. None of them are keen on fetch (maybe because I don't encourage fetch. I find fetch mania annoying, and I regard the jumping and twisting that goes along with fetch as hazardous to hips and elbows). I keep my own lines because they have been good dogs, and pretty much problem free.
As Remaru hinted, heavy Labs are more likely to decline young
If you can find an older Lab who has been hip/elbow scored and is excellent/normal . .. preferably done some field work, tracking, or obedience. . . .you are likely to go well.


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