# Can no longer afford Large Breed Innova...what to do?



## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

I have poured over the massive amount of information in these forums, and I am STILL trying to figure out the best thing to do for our dogs, yet still keeping cost in mind. We have a 4.5-year-old German Shepherd/Great Dane male mix (97 lbs.) and a nearly 10-month-old Caucasian Ovcharka female (99 lbs.). We have been feeding Innova Large Breed for him and Innova Large Breed Puppy for her, and they love it and seem to be thriving and doing great. However, prices have continually increased to the point that we can no longer afford it. (It has gone up $20 per bag over the past two years!)
We have considered trying raw or dry food supplemented by raw. The main dry foods I've been reading about include are 4 Health and Merrick. I am also very aware of and concerned about the risk of bloat in these breeds, so that's a factor, as well.
Any advice/suggestions would be much appreciated! I just want to do the best I can for them and still be able to keep a roof over their heads.  Thanks in advance!


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Hmm... I know alot of people have great results with Kirkland, which you can buy at Costco if you have one near you. It's supposed to be really reasonably priced and good quality. Taste of the Wild is probably the cheapest grain-free food on the market. I'm sure others will chime in!


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Hmm... I know alot of people have great results with Kirkland, which you can buy at Costco if you have one near you. It's supposed to be really reasonably priced and good quality. Taste of the Wild is probably the cheapest grain-free food on the market. I'm sure others will chime in!


Thanks for the quick response! We don't have Costco here, but I may check out TOTW. The Pacific Stream formula looks like it would work well for large breeds IF they have truly eliminated ethoxyquin from the mix.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

A friend of mine likes 4 Health which she buys at Tractor Supply (a plus since they have a lot of KY locations, often more convenient than a pet store). Very good price, good ingredients, although not grain free. Her dogs are both small though. It gets a 4 star on dogfoodanalysis.com

I use a high-protein grain-free from Earthborn (the primitive natural) which is made in Indiana. Not as cheap but the high calories per cup mean I feed less than other brands. My dog is 75 lbs so not a truly large breed but he is large and active. I like that its first ingredients are turkey meal, chicken meal, whitefish meal (meat meals are more meat than whole meats since the water weight is removed). Sold at Feeder's Supply. It gets a 5 star on dogfoodanalysis.com


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

Shandwill said:


> Thanks for the quick response! We don't have Costco here, but I may check out TOTW. The Pacific Stream formula looks like it would work well for large breeds IF they have truly eliminated ethoxyquin from the mix.


TOTW with use by dates after May 11, 2011 are E free

I have used TOTW for over a year with my 17 1/2 month old Saint. At one time or another he's eaten all 3 flavors, Pacific Stream is his favorite.


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## Angel's_mom (May 26, 2010)

I think 4 Health and Kirkland dog foods are very very similar. They're both made by the same company. My dog does better on a grain free food. She's on Wellness Core, but I bought a bag of Earthborn Primitive Naturals because I had a coupon and I like to mix things up. Then I realized it has 717 calories per cup! So I just mix it in with the Core, because my dog doesn't need a high calorie food and I don't want to decrease her intake to 1/3 cup per day so this works for us. Anyway, my point is, a large breed would probably really benefit from the high calorie content, you wouldn't have to feed as much per day! TOTW is good as well, we've used it and probably will again.


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## Fresh Paint (Jul 27, 2010)

TOTW (Taste Of The Wild) is a really good dog food. I'm learning about it all myself too. I have seen 4Health and considered it but I want to do some more reseach on it first off. Blue Buffalo is also a good brand that is grain free. TSC has that and 4Health I think TOTW too. PetSmart only has Blue Buffalo and not 4Health or TOTW, Or at least mine doesn't.


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## Angel's_mom (May 26, 2010)

Not all Blue Buffalo is grain free, only the Blue Wilderness. TSC here has Blue Buff but not the grain free. I get TOTW at Tractor Supply and Feeder Supply. Feeder Supply also has a brand called Professional, which is similar to 4 Health. They recommended it to me as a good food, and the ingredients look good for a grained food, but it didn't work out for my dog, she can't digest the grains. It's corn, wheat, and soy free though if your dog can tolerate grains, and it's reasonably priced.


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## Fresh Paint (Jul 27, 2010)

PetSmart does have BB wilderness so it's availble for me... I'm posting another trend now so answer it if you will please. =)


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

So, I have really been leaning towards TOTW, however...My Caucasian Ovcharka is 10 months old. While some literature suggests that COs are finished growing by about this age, I know from experience that other large/giant breeds do not reach maturity until 18-24 months. I am concerned that TOTW, even the Pacific Coast formula (which would be my pick), would not have the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio for her and that the protein/fat percentages may cause her to grow too quickly if she is still growing. Thoughts/suggestions about this?
TOTW would likely be fine for my 4-year-old GSD/Great Dane mix, but I am really concerned about the possible impact on my "puppy." I have also been keeping 4 Health, which has a large breed formula, in the back of my mind. In speaking with my vet, she was not in favor of a grain-free food and was COMPLETELY against raw diets (but I created another thread a week ago ranting about my visit with her).


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

I think you are right in saying that TOTW is not for large breed puppys, but appropriate for adults. I would feed your dogs something else until both are adults, just to be on the safe side. My daughter and son-in-law have been feeding their female German Shorthair Pointer, Ziggy, 4Health from TS for the past 4-6 months now. Before that she ate Solid Gold Wolfcub/Wolfking. They are feeding her the performance formula because she has had trouble keeping weight on. She's 2.5 years old and 70 lbs. I know that sounds huge for a female GSP, but she is stunning! Anyway, she has been doing great on the food. I just visited with them and she looks better than she did while eating Solid Gold, especially weight-wise. So, if I were you, I'd stick with calcium/phosphorus ratios of 1.5/1.0 for now. Good luck!


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

So, after shopping around, researching, and comparing companies, I think Whole Earth Farms Adult Formula may be a good option for my pups. When looking at both quality and price, I'm pleased; it runs about $36 for 35#. Also, Merrick is looking better all the time in light of P & G buyout of Natura. I found out this weekend that Natura products will soon be carried at Petsmart...I have to wonder what other changes will follow, but I digress. My only concern about Whole Earth is the calcium level of 1.78...is this too high for giant breeds? Most of what I've read recommends 1.2 to 1.5. The other food that has made my short list is Fromm Classic Adult, which runs $34.99 for 33# and has a calcium level of 1.2 (HealthWise looked like a good option, too, other than the fact that it is a Natura product.) Thoughts?


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## sagira (Nov 5, 2009)

I would be a bit concerned about the ratios as your breed is very large and indeed may not stop growing until he's 2 years old. What about Evangers? Their dry food is not bad in price (check petfooddirect.com) and months ago I called them about calcium/phosphorus ratios and the man who talked to me was very helpful and read the ratios out to me and recommended the ones with appropriate ratios. I'm quite sure their Pheasant and Brown Rice formula had correct calcium/phosphorus ratios.


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

sagira said:


> What about Evangers? Their dry food is not bad in price (check petfooddirect.com)


Looks like a good food, but $28 for 16# is putting me back up around the Innova price range. What do you consider "appropriate" ratios of calcium/phosphorus? What I've been reading recommends 23-26 for protein, 12-16 for fat, and 1.2-1.5 for calcium.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Whole Earth Farms is a good food from a good company, but I would refrain from using it until you pup is an adult because of the higher calcium percentage. Again, if you could get 4Health from TS, their puppy formula looks good and is very, very reasonably priced. FROMM is a fantastic food/company and is what I'm feeding at the moment (their 4-Star). If you can get their Classic line, maybe you could also get their Gold line (which is a step up). They do have a large breed puppy formula and it is pretty reasonably priced here in Ohio.


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## strayhare (Nov 8, 2009)

I think in today's economy everyone is feeling the pinch. With the vet bills which I try to do the yearly and emergency only. The flea and tick, heartworm it is getting harder and harder. I to have tried to find some happy middle where I'm giving my dogs a "Good" food and a half decent price but its so rough. The 30lb bag of Taste of the Wild just seems to always be empty. Also my dogs are both on the slim side because they run alot. I just wish there was something less money.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I can't answer your questions but did I read right that Innova has gone up $20 A BAG???


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## SOKAIBA (Aug 17, 2010)

I heard from my local holistic pet store that Innova was bought by Proctor and Gamble. I have discontinued feeding it to my pets and would recommend others look for alternatives as well. JMO

Kai


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## spitzmaus (Oct 1, 2009)

I don't no much about this food I never fed it, Candide they do have a no grain food, 
Also A lot of people feed TOTW, or just Diamond, I did feed TOTW my dogs did like it
TOTW is made by Diamond I'm not a Diamond fan. I'm feeding Verus it's a very good
food I'm feeding the Fish & Potato it isn't a no grain food.
Good luck to you.


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> I can't answer your questions but did I read right that Innova has gone up $20 A BAG???


Yep, over the past 3-4 years. As sokaiba mentioned, Natura (which includes Innova and several other popular foods) was recently purchased by P & G, so I would've likely switched foods regardless. For folks that stick with Natura foods, I've heard it will be carried at Petsmart before long.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Angel's_mom said:


> I bought a bag of Earthborn Primitive Naturals because I had a coupon and I like to mix things up. Then I realized it has 717 calories per cup!


Holy crap, that's a lot of calories! That's higher than EVO, which is high compared to most. I think I just found a new backpacking food!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

My active 75 lbs dog eats only 2 cups of the primitive natural a day. I up to to 2.5 cups when we start running over 5 miles daily in the winter/spring. Make a bag last a long time so its seems a lot cheaper than it is.


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