# AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD OWNERS!! Nipping, advice etc.



## CuddlyKat

Hey, 

I'm not new to dog ownership but I wasn't sure where else to post this. I would love to just gather as many Aussie owners and those with experience as possible for all my questions since I just got my first aussie a few months back and I adore him but I always like having that base for advice when possible. Such as for training etc.
And what is the best way to handle nipping? He's from a versatility line and he's great normally but when he gets excited or if i move quickly, like try jogging he'll nip and it hurts and will break skin at times and he's gotten holes in a number of clothing items now. 

:flypig:


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## SydTheSpaniel

I just got my first Aussie on Saturday, and she's been doing the same thing but I'm betting it's just a puppy thing rather than a breed thing right now. I've been redirecting her to things she's allowed to bite, like her bully stick or her own toys. It's still work in progress and I don't know if that's the best thing to do, but thought I'd share with you my own current experience and what I'm doing to try and train it!


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## CuddlyKat

OMG! Congrats. Do you have pics yet? And it is a breed thing sometimes because of the herding instinct. And I've met a few people with adults that are semi out of control when they don't jump onto training them, but he's gaining weight and I have way too much cuts from him lol He gets redirected, exercise and is perfect most of the time but with now that he's older and heavier, I was hoping someone had some better way to handle this. lol


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## SydTheSpaniel

CuddlyKat said:


> OMG! Congrats. Do you have pics yet? And it is a breed thing sometimes because of the herding instinct. And I've met a few people with adults that are semi out of control when they don't jump onto training them, but he's gaining weight and I have way too much cuts from him lol He gets redirected, exercise and is perfect most of the time but with now that he's older and heavier, I was hoping someone had some better way to handle this. lol


I wish I could help, but I'm still learning myself, haha! There are many Aussie owners here though, I'm sure someone will chime in soon. 

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/137858-lunettas-picture-thread.html Here's some pictures of her. She's 8 weeks old right now.


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## CuddlyKat

She's soooo cute!!! I appreciate you trying. I hope you dont end up having this problem. He's soo good at class and for everything its just this one this is an issue just being of the physical harm lol like right now he's just chillaxing, after our walk today and sleeping by the bed. Where did you get your pup from?


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## SydTheSpaniel

Yeah, Mine's still getting used to the leash right now, but she likes to lunge at my boots when we're outside, and bite at the leash. And she's been mouthing our hands a lot. Those sharp baby teeth hurt! lol We got her from a breeder here in Kansas. She comes from working lines too. I'm going to do some leash training with her tomorrow, she's currently at my in laws house for the night because I need a night to clean the house and my husband's back to work all night. And they love her to death haha. I did watch a training video about puppy biting and nipping, and it said to redirect them to a toy or chew bone and praise them when they do redirect their attention. And to also react with an "Ouch!" sound when they bite you too hard.


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## CuddlyKat

I remember when he did that. I got that bungie type short leash for leash training because it's a bit easier for me to do the correction. And I went with the high pitch yelp sound (kind of like how dogs sound when hurt) >_< people look at me funny. And when they change teeth it only gets slightly better. I managed to save one of his baby teeth though  (I sound nuts).


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## Keechak

Only one of my Aussies has ever had a problem with nipping as an older puppy the others have always gotten over it by the time they were about 5 months old.


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## Solstitialis

I haven't had too much trouble with nipping. Sometimes aussies have a really, really strong desire to control movement and can displace their frustration. One of my aussies will redirect and go after other dogs/the cats if people start rough housing or moving about in ways she thinks are innappropriate. 

The best solution is to try to prevent your dog from getting riled up in the first place.


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## CuddlyKat

Yea, he'll herd my other dog if he gets too hyper and he'll try and chase after the dogs at the dog park. But how can I get him to relax for things like me moving faster than a walk? I would like to exercise with him later down but right now if i move quicker than a walk he goes after my ankles.


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## Solstitialis

This is probably going to get a very negative response, but I'd have him leashed up on a choke or prong collar and say "no" and give a quick collar correction if he nips, then immediately ask him to do a behavior (like sit) and reward him for it. 

He needs to learn that his teeth on people's skin is an absolute NO NO, or else he could end up in trouble. I rarely use corrections, but that kind of thing warrants them, IMO. Sometimes they just think this is a delightfully fun game, but the problem is if he does it as an adult its big trouble. 

As for him learning to relax when you move faster.....that just comes with age and training. You can do a lot of positive reinforcement training to tell him what a good boy he is when he's trotting nicely with you.


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## elrohwen

CuddlyKat said:


> And it is a breed thing sometimes because of the herding instinct.


It's not just an Aussie thing - lots of puppies are like this. My dog is a gun dog breed and he's been a biting menace, but is significantly better at 7 months.

The best thing you can do is walk away and completely ignore him when he bites and won't be redirect to a toy. Yes, he'll follow you and nip at your pants legs, but just ignore him completely and walk out of the room where can't reach you. If you're walking outside and he goes for your ankles, stop and be a tree and don't move again until he stops, or put him on leash and use that to keep him from reaching you. It will probably take a long time, just be consistent. The less consistent you are, the longer it will take.


And yeah, I'm going to be one of those who reacts negatively to Solstitialis' comment about the choke and prong collar technique. There is absolutely no reason to use a correction collar on a puppy. They are puppies, they bite, it's what they do, and it's our job to teach them how hard is too hard and when it's appropriate or not appropriate to mouth. Corrections are just going to create a puppy who is afraid and shut down.


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## Kobismom

We have a MAS and he will herd us as well, nipping on the back of our knees if he can when he's excited. What we've done is gotten a gentle leader face harness and use this on a 6' leash. When he's not walking next to us appropriately, we can gently tug on the leash, bringing him back into line, which teaches him appropriate walking... which isn't behind us, where he can nip if we're not walking the way HE wants us to walk! LOL

The gentle leader has been really helpful for us. It was recommended to us by our puppy obedience trainer.


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## SydTheSpaniel

I agree, it's more of a puppy thing than anything else. I watched a good video last night about puppy biting, and the trainer said to allow gentle mouthing and once they put too much pressure on the skin, to yell "Ouch!" and walk away (sometimes over exxagerate like you're really hurt) I'm also going to agree - using a correction collar on a young puppy for doing something is is completely normal and can easily be trained using much more positive methods is useless and only going to create problems further down the road.


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## Kobismom

SydTheSpaniel said:


> I agree, it's more of a puppy thing than anything else. I watched a good video last night about puppy biting, and the trainer said to allow gentle mouthing and once they put too much pressure on the skin, to yell "Ouch!" and walk away (sometimes over exxagerate like you're really hurt) I'm also going to agree - using a correction collar on a young puppy for doing something is is completely normal and can easily be trained using much more positive methods is useless and only going to create problems further down the road.


You have to monitor your puppy carefully when using the "ouch" method. I've experienced (as have many dog owners here if you read their posts) when I say "ouch" firmly, it only amps Kobi up, so we had to go to ignoring or turning our back away calmly, until he realizes playtime is over when he uses negative behaviors to play with us. Some dogs respond well to this method, others see it as a game.


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## elrohwen

Kobismom said:


> You have to monitor your puppy carefully when using the "ouch" method. I've experienced (as have many dog owners here if you read their posts) when I say "ouch" firmly, it only amps Kobi up, so we had to go to ignoring or turning our back away calmly, until he realizes playtime is over when he uses negative behaviors to play with us. Some dogs respond well to this method, others see it as a game.


Yeah, the key with yelping or using "ouch" is for new puppy owners to realize it's a cue, not something that puppies innately understand and react to. Sometimes the training advice can sound like "just say ouch and the puppy will magically stop biting" and people wonder why their puppy gets even more hyper. The "ouch" needs to become the cue that you're about to walk away, so that the puppy can choose to stop biting before that once he understands. Personally, I use "oops" because it's our general marker for "that wasn't the right choice, try again", but anything can work. 

Maybe there are puppies who innately understand "ouch" or a yelp, but I haven't met one yet


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## RabbleFox

I would not recommend using a choke or prong collar. You have a puppy, not a problem dog! Now is the time to tell your pup that nipping is a no, no. Anytime puppy nips, you stop playing and ignore him for a moment. If you are walking and he nips, stop the walk and ignore or ask the puppy to do something constructive like "sit".

Aussies (of all sizes) are known to be kind of bossy. Its important that you establish that he is not the rule maker! Nipping is a form of bossing. So is excessive barking. I was at an agility show over the weekend and one lady tried to redirect her dog after giving him the wrong command. Crazy barking at her before he redirected... The nipping at this point can be labeled as puppy nibbling. Only later will you truly find out if he is trying to boss or herd you. 

Pepper still has latent herding instincts that he will use if we have kids running about in the backyard or if my dad uses the lawn mower. (He also doesn't like my dad on a POGO stick?) Thats when he nips. If we are going to have lots of kids over or if dad is going to trim the lawn, Pepper goes inside. We try not to put him into a situation where he is going to get riled up and _want_ to nip.


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## xxxxdogdragoness

My only advice is to invest in a good tall pair of rubber boots & wear them over your clothes whenever you are in contact with him, you can also put bitter spray or Tabasco sauce on the boots so when he nips people it is not a pleasent experience & he will stop on his own.

I dot know About Aussies but I have ACDs & they do not stop with time, tilt its not nipped in the bud when they are small then it will get worse ... At least wih my breed it does. 

You can also redirect him to "herd" something appropriate : google "triebbal" I used this & it worked wonders for my loco puppies LOL.


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## CuddlyKat

First, thank you so much for all the diff responses. 

For the prong/choke collar suggestion, i have yet to have a dog get to that point where they really need one and I would never want to start that on a puppy, especially when hes doing so great in everything else. It would be borderline cruel because he's very sensitive with corrections and when he knows he was bad he'll shrink down and look sad so he'd probably severely shut down if I put him through that.

I just wanted to clarify when I said breed specific I meant any dog with a prey drive. I know that puppies will nip but he's been doing good with bite inhibition inside or playing but the trouble comes with his herding. I'm not trying to discredit anyone's responses, I just think I didn't explain well enough. He's been herding more as be gets older and I just wanted to see if anyone had experience with that and had a solution to curb the nipping on people. He does it with dogs and with smaller dogs ill just remove him from the situation when he gets into it and he can play with either another herder or dogs that like that playing but I just don't like him nipping me, i think it's asking too much to say he should stop herding me since its his instinct and him hovering is not too bad.

I'll be trying to be more effective at either switching to him doing a command and ignoring him when he does it. I'll look into the treibal thing as well! I love having all this feedback. Let me know if anyone has other things they've done.


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## elrohwen

CuddlyKat said:


> I just wanted to clarify when I said breed specific I meant any dog with a prey drive. I know that puppies will nip but he's been doing good with bite inhibition inside or playing but the trouble comes with his herding. I'm not trying to discredit anyone's responses, I just think I didn't explain well enough. He's been herding more as be gets older and I just wanted to see if anyone had experience with that and had a solution to curb the nipping on people. He does it with dogs and with smaller dogs ill just remove him from the situation when he gets into it and he can play with either another herder or dogs that like that playing but I just don't like him nipping me, i think it's asking too much to say he should stop herding me since its his instinct and him hovering is not too bad.


What I was trying to say in mentioning that it's not just a herder thing was just to mean that many puppies do some version of this and the training technique is the same. I'm sure he's trying to herd, while my pup is using his mouth for a different reason (not being a herding dog), but it doesn't change the method and technique of changing his behavior.


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## xxxxdogdragoness

A lot of pups will go after feet cuz it's "fun" but herding dogs are different, they have a unique, tactical way of going about it (the way they use their eyes & their bodies ... It's hard to explain but they really get into it) & it needs to be stopped.

Do not use anything that will cause him pain or discomfort, I have gone that route when I was younger & it only exacerbated my prob, because the pup's instincts may very well tell him he has to push the "stock" (I.e. YOU) harder, herding dogs are bred to take a kick from a cow or stand down a charging bull .. A prong, choke collar or e collar may very well serve to only peeve them off. 

I just wore my trusty rubber boots with bitter spray on them (pants tucked inside of course) & redirected their herding behavior onto something like triebbal or a flirt pole (google that also it saved my sanity believe me).

Also may I ask WHERE ARE THE PICS?!?!? Lol


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## Kobismom

We can definitely tell the difference from when Kobi is just puppy nipping and when he is herding. 

I will say that since we've been taking him to the dog park, his play nipping has reduced dramatically. I think his interactions with other dogs have helped in that arena.

When he's herding, he nips at the back of my leg, and then circles around me to get me to move as HE wants me to move. It's very distinctive how he acts...


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## CuddlyKat

dogdragoness said:


> Also may I ask WHERE ARE THE PICS?!?!? Lol












































https://www.facebook.com/EscherLouie/photos_stream

And the dog park and outdoor areas seem to be where he more gets into his groove and he'll herd the dogs and when he gets off that he herds me because he never really travels too far away. And he herds my other dog inside.


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## Kobismom

OMG!!! SQUUUEEEEEE!!! He's gorgeous!! What a beauty!


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## xxxxdogdragoness

Yaaaaaay puppy pics


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## Damon'sMom

When Jasper was little he was just horrible about nipping, I suppose most pups are though. I would look at The Bite Stops Here. It worked for us. And Jasper hates when I stop playing with him so he learned fast NO biting people. He is a few days from being 6 months old and still has a little to learn. Good luck with your pup.  Wonderful photos.


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## xxxxdogdragoness

Most generic no bite training techniques don't work with this kind of behavior ... This isn't play behavior this is an ingrained instinct ... It calls to the dog like the call of nature or the need to eat/drink ... It's much different then say, a puppy who nips your hand in play. 

Being a tree, stomping your feet, body blocking, & all those methods will only serve to make most (not saying it would work on all herders but I own ACDs ... Some of the toughest herders there are) herding pups more determined to "move" you like stubborn stock. 

I'm telling you, good pair of rubber boots & some bitter apple or Tabasco sauce works wonders. & I only tried that after I tried everything else lol


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## CuddlyKat

Danke!!! Thanks for all the different advice!! I'll be testing some out and we'll see how it goes. Any one have advice for training in general. I read you have to gain the Aussie's respect?? Not sure what that looks like >_< And how does one make that transition for commands without a reward. Unlike my pap who gets excited for commands, Escher will look at me and turn his head to the side like "I think you have no treats on hand". And then he's less likely to do even a sit.


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## SydTheSpaniel

When your Aussie goes for your legs, does he make a growling noise as he does it? Lunetta, my 9 week old has been doing it an awful much the past few days! I'm definitely going to try the bitter spray and see if that works. It's kind of embarrassing having a tiny, adorable and fluffy puppy making high pitched snarls and lunging for your legs in public... hahaha.


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## CuddlyKat

No, he's just pretty snappy about it. I've heard him make growling noises playing with other dogs though. But I met someone with a border collie pup from my obedience and agility class who is having the same nipping issue. We've agreed to share if we find something that works. I can calm him down pretty easy with the nipping but it's the preventing it from happening that's got me stumped :/ 

I've just been trying to snag it early before he can nip sometimes and then rewarding him being calm. But he still nips for the ball, if i move faster than a walking pace sometimes (I've gotten this to kind of stop) and a few other things will rile him up. How's puppyhood going otherwise??


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## SydTheSpaniel

CuddlyKat said:


> No, he's just pretty snappy about it. I've heard him make growling noises playing with other dogs though. But I met someone with a border collie pup from my obedience and agility class who is having the same nipping issue. We've agreed to share if we find something that works. I can calm him down pretty easy with the nipping but it's the preventing it from happening that's got me stumped :/
> 
> I've just been trying to snag it early before he can nip sometimes and then rewarding him being calm. But he still nips for the ball, if i move faster than a walking pace sometimes (I've gotten this to kind of stop) and a few other things will rile him up. How's puppyhood going otherwise??


Potty training is going very well! But she drinks a lot of water, so I've been limiting it a bit, it's the main source of her accidents I think. I've caught on to signs she shows when she needs to go and usually I'll jump up and hurry her outside before she ends up going in the house. It feels like I'm constantly watching her like a hawk lol. She also loves wires, so it's been a battle with that, thankfully I catch her before she actually chews on them. She has also learned where her food is, and will sit by the cabinet when she's hungry. She's definitely active, always needing something to chew on, or play with. She also loves to be outside, and will usually flop down in the grass and just chew on grass and look around, thankfully it's getting warmer so I don't mind too much. I'm honestly excited for this stage of puppy hood to be over already haha, it'll be a great day when she sleeps through the night and stops the consistent crying! 

As for the lunging and biting, she SOUNDS like a wolverine. Not even joking, it's a high pitched snarl, and when I have to hold her back, I am just praying no one is watching me, because it's probably a hilarious sight. I'll tell her no as I hold her back, and reward her if she settles down - I think she's catching on to that. The other day she managed to bite hard enough that it significantly hurt in comparison to other times.


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## CuddlyKat

I have a few scrapes to show for it from mine. And I remember that...he would get up and cry and I would cry too because I was dying!! And I also had to limit his water because he would drink for the fun I swear!! He then started digging in his bowl :/ And mine just ATE my laptop charger....had to shell out more to get another one lol and drive half hour to the closest apple store. Puppyhood is great with the memories so I try to take as many photos as possible but I'm also waiting for it to be over and for me to fig out all the bumps and kinks.

I wish I could see a video of her XP She sounds adorable!! I wish Escher had another Aussie pup to play with, closest we get is a border collie around his age.


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## SydTheSpaniel

CuddlyKat said:


> I have a few scrapes to show for it from mine. And I remember that...he would get up and cry and I would cry too because I was dying!! And I also had to limit his water because he would drink for the fun I swear!! He then started digging in his bowl :/ And mine just ATE my laptop charger....had to shell out more to get another one lol and drive half hour to the closest apple store. Puppyhood is great with the memories so I try to take as many photos as possible but I'm also waiting for it to be over and for me to fig out all the bumps and kinks.
> 
> I wish I could see a video of her XP She sounds adorable!! I wish Escher had another Aussie pup to play with, closest we get is a border collie around his age.


Lunetta does that with her water too!! She'll paw at it and get water everywhere. I posted a video thread the other day of my two getting to know each other here: 

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/143362-sydney-lunetta-interacting-good.html

We're going to take them to my in laws house on Monday and I'll get a video of them playing in the yard! She is definitely a character! My BIL and his girlfriend have a male aussie who looks a lot like your Escher that she'll get to know when we hang out with them, so I'm glad for that.


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## CuddlyKat

She is so dang cute!!!! I love how you have two girls and I have two boys Xp I started playing the vid and Escher perked up at all the puppy sounds like where is she I want to play!! I can't get over the cute ball of fluff. It goes by so quickly  Now mine is just big and dopey in his inbetween phase Xp Does she have two blue eyes?? Everyone asks me if Escher's eyesight and hearing are good. He's not merle to merle but because he has quite a bit of white in the face people think he is. 

And take a vid when you get them with the male aussie!! I must see!! My cousin sent me a pic of an adult border collie version of Escher!!


























And Escher at the dog park being a goof and trying to herd the bigger puppy >_<


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## CuddlyKat

BTW! Just saw that you gave Syd raw, did you stick with that? I tried and they did okay but I didn't have the support because I didn't know anyone actually preparing it and I didn't want to do anything wrong :/ 










That was their first meal and then I gave them the bone separate like they suggest, which was turkey neck because I didn't feel comfortable giving chicken with the bone....

I moved back to a dog food after about a week or two of this.


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## SydTheSpaniel

She has amber eyes, but her mother looks exactly like her. Same markings almost to a tee, except her mother has two blue eyes. She is gorgeous. The male aussie my BIL has looks very similar to your's except more color in the face, and has blue eyes. Here's a picture of him:









As for the raw feeding, I haven't been consistent with it, she enjoyed her chicken leg, but had soft stools afterward, nothing too major. I went into it with the plan of it only being a once a week type thing.

Also, I LOVE how Escher has a full tail, it is so pretty! I wish Lunetta had her tail, but am perfectly happy with cracking up every time the nub wiggles.  I'll definitely get a video of Wilhelm (the male aussie) and Lunetta next time we see them! It might actually be on Monday, not sure yet!


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## CuddlyKat

SEE!! That dog looks almost exactly like Escher!! That's not him, that's the border collie my cousin saw at a dog park that she had to take pics of and send to me Xp I was floored, so excited at that >_< Escher has some awesome merling going on in his eyes. One is full blue but his pupil looks like a burst out like a star and then the other eyes is faded from blue to hazel and starry pupil too. Looks awesome. And I love his stump!! His whole hips and the stump moves and it makes my days happy


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## SydTheSpaniel

CuddlyKat said:


> SEE!! That dog looks almost exactly like Escher!! That's not him, that's the border collie my cousin saw at a dog park that she had to take pics of and send to me Xp I was floored, so excited at that >_< Escher has some awesome merling going on in his eyes. One is full blue but his pupil looks like a burst out like a star and then the other eyes is faded from blue to hazel and starry pupil too. Looks awesome. And I love his stump!! His whole hips and the stump moves and it makes my days happy


Oh. Hah! That'll teach me to read better. His eyes really are stunning. It's nice to talk to someone who is a new Aussie owner like me! I'll definitely share some more videos in a few days.


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## makenzie

dogdragoness said:


> Most generic no bite training techniques don't work with this kind of behavior ... This isn't play behavior this is an ingrained instinct ... It calls to the dog like the call of nature or the need to eat/drink ... It's much different then say, a puppy who nips your hand in play.
> 
> Being a tree, stomping your feet, body blocking, & all those methods will only serve to make most (not saying it would work on all herders but I own ACDs ... Some of the toughest herders there are) herding pups more determined to "move" you like stubborn stock.
> 
> I'm telling you, good pair of rubber boots & some bitter apple or Tabasco sauce works wonders. & I only tried that after I tried everything else lol


I've been having a similar issue with our aussie! Thanks for the post! I agree that this type of nipping is much different than his play biting and the feet chasing that he did as a younger pup. The normal bite inhibition and being a tree methods that worked for his play biting and feet biting as a young puppy are not at all effective for his 'herding nippiness' while walking. He also tries to do this to the hay wagon or any nearby slow moving vehicle (although still has no interest in going near the sheep besides a few sniffs haha)

I will definitely try using the bitters on pant legs. Do you just keep moving when he's dancing around you and nipping? The only way I've found to really keep him moving and get him out of this state is to dangle a stick or toy for him to tug on as we walk or stop and ask for a sit, down etc... (but thats only effective if I have high-value treats on hand).


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## CuddlyKat

makenzie said:


> I've been having a similar issue with our aussie! Thanks for the post! I agree that this type of nipping is much different than his play biting and the feet chasing that he did as a younger pup. The normal bite inhibition and being a tree methods that worked for his play biting and feet biting as a young puppy are not at all effective for his 'herding nippiness' while walking. He also tries to do this to the hay wagon or any nearby slow moving vehicle (although still has no interest in going near the sheep besides a few sniffs haha)
> 
> I will definitely try using the bitters on pant legs. Do you just keep moving when he's dancing around you and nipping? The only way I've found to really keep him moving and get him out of this state is to dangle a stick or toy for him to tug on as we walk or stop and ask for a sit, down etc... (but thats only effective if I have high-value treats on hand).


Mine has gotten to the point where he does an automatic sit as I tell him no sternly. And then I praise him (not too excited) for that. I normally stop for this if he's too riled up. Now he's pulling like a train. :/


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## xxxxdogdragoness

Yeah I just put on my trusty rubber boots (pant legs tucked inside) with the bitter spray on them & kept walking, & ignoring, as reprimanding them can sometimes rile them up more (your being stubborn stock!!! ) if you just put on those boots go about your business & ignore, then treat/reward with play/attention when he stops, he will get that herding you Jenna's fun as NOT herding you.

Another method is when he starts you can get a soccer or basket ball & encourage him to herd that (redirection)


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## Kobismom

CuddlyKat said:


> Now he's pulling like a train. :/


We got the gentle leader for Kobi as he was pulling so hard that he sounded like a duck as he choked himself. We tried the "sit/stay" and walking in the opposite direction, but it did no good. Our puppy obedience class trainer turned us onto the "gentle leader," which has made a world of difference! We've been able to have more control when training him, can get him to "sit" when we need him to and he doesn't pull as much on the leash, making it easier to train him on leash in general.


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## sclevenger

Im like Keechak, all the Aussies I've owned or been around, I only had 1 that was nippy and herdy outside of "puppy phase" It kind of made sense being as he was from a working farm. However, he got the worst if we played Frisbee we would run around and he would circle turn, dart and nip especially if I moved the wrong way in his eyes. I just stopped the game, until he sat on his own in front of me and tried again. If it got to out of hand then we went back inside. He was slowing coming out of it.

Our next Aussie will be here next Friday and Im praying he won't be a nippy soul like the others. Good luck with your pup everyone here has great advice!


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## xxxxdogdragoness

Yeah I know all herders do this but some are more "hard core" about it, typically ACDs & working line BC's / Aussies. Coincidently I never had a problem with pulling lol even though I never taught any of my dogs (minus bear) a "formal" heel.


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## SydTheSpaniel

That would make sense why Lunetta's so bad with it. She comes from working lines. The worst is when we're outside and she is SO vocal about it with high pitched snarls as she's trying to go for my leg. And since I live in a complex... I'm sure lots of people see it. I hope it doesn't last too long though, she drew blood last night and man it hurt so bad.


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## xxxxdogdragoness

I'm telling you ... Rubber boots & bitter spray are your best friends


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## CuddlyKat

dogdragoness said:


> Yeah I know all herders do this but some are more "hard core" about it, typically ACDs & working line BC's / Aussies. Coincidently I never had a problem with pulling lol even though I never taught any of my dogs (minus bear) a "formal" heel.


He's so much better by himself on a leash except with something he wants to get at. But by himself he's easier to calm down but with my other dog they're off the handle now. I've been getting up early so in the morning I just do the tree thing and work on them both walking together. They were find together in the beginning, it was heaven with them on a leash but now they've taken up pulling >_<


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## xxxxdogdragoness

Use the pulling to your advantage, bike with them or do skijoring (google it) for now, the tree method is best, they can tantrum all they want but until they are calm there is no forward progress


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## SydTheSpaniel

I've been doing the tree thing with Lunetta to try and stop her biting when I have her outside on the leash, I think it's working... slowly. I WILL be getting boots and bitter spray though! lol


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## xxxxdogdragoness

SydTheSpaniel said:


> I've been doing the tree thing with Lunetta to try and stop her biting when I have her outside on the leash, I think it's working... slowly. I WILL be getting boots and bitter spray though! lol


Cool, tell me how it works, it worked wonders for me because at least for me ... Telling mine "no!" Or "blocking" them seems to make them all the more detirmined to "herd" you :/ lol.


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## sclevenger

OTE=dogdragoness;1587906]Cool, tell me how it works, it worked wonders for me because at least for me ... Telling mine "no!" Or "blocking" them seems to make them all the more detirmined to "herd" you :/ lol.[/QUOTE]

So far ive been lucky with Royce, a no, knee block and stand still and Royce automatically stops and sits and looks up at me...fur now anyways!!


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## xxxxdogdragoness

for dogs the have respect, or learn it very quickly but some dont & get worse when challenged. with Izze it was a balance i could 'stare her down' when she was a teenager/young adult IF i wasnt too confrontational about it. but if i was irritated or angey she would meet me with the same intensity... its just their nature. 

as she got older i could give her a snap & a stern look.


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