# Carsten just had a MAJOR MAJOR seizure, I am freaking.



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I am home today on a day off, doing some cleaning, fooling on the computer. Carsten was just laying here on his dog bed next to me when he suddenly sat up. I looked at him and he was making a funny face as though someone had bopped him in the face. He was shrinking his whole face back and started to back up but was in a corner. I said "Whats up Carsten?" and then he started to foam at the mouth, eyes rolled back in his head, he tried to move toward me but fell to the ground shaking like crazy. The whole thing probably lasted 3 minutes but I am freaked. I was right by the phone and have my vets number memorized so I had him on the phone right away. I managed to stay real calm for Carsten but inside all the terrible things going through my head. 

When he started coming out of it, Oliver was looking on from about 5 feet away, wondering what in the world was going on. Carsten started snarling and lunged toward Oliver. I jumped back and pushed Oliver and Eleanor out of the room and put the gate up. Carsten was wild eyed and obviously terrified. I kept talking to him while he snarled. I just sat down on the floor near him and kept my eyes down. I was talking to the vet the whole time. THAT made me most scared. Not that he was snarling as I KNOW that he was temporarily unsettled by the seizure but fear that my wonderful boy could have a personality change. This dog is so attached to me and so tolerant of anything anyone dishes out to him. I need to know why this happened. The vet wants me to wait an hour or so before bringing him in so that the stress of moving him doesn't set him off again. Waiting sucks!

Please, all dog lovers say prayers for my boy Carsten right now. I need him back perfectly alright. Please.


----------



## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

That sounds so scary. I hope the vet has some answers for you and everything is OK.


----------



## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

OMG I hope everything is OK... I can't imagine how scary that must have been... And how scary it STILL is 

Hope it's nothing major


----------



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Oh that is terrible! I love that Rotten dog! Sending good thoughts. So sorry


----------



## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm so sorry Inga. Give Carsten lots of love for me.

IME, dogs that have seizures don't change permanently. They may lash out during/immediately after the seizure but they're sweet/tolerant dogs 99% of the time. It's a scary experience for everybody involved. Expect him to be very tired.

Hopefully, the vet has answers for you.


----------



## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Prayers are going your and Carsten's way right now. We had a girl here on seizure meds for 5 years. Seizure times always remain difficult and taxing, but more comfort comes when you know that you've done all you can and you see them get through and back out O.K.

SOB


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Now he is licking me nonstop and hanging close to me. That isn't that abnormal except it is in a bit more excess. He is panting hard and bumping into things. He had a nice big drink of water and barfed on the carpet. Now he and Oliver both ran to the door so Oliver could bark at the mailman. Also normal ish. I am having flashbacks of my beautiful Lulu that blew clot and stroked. She behaved a little like this for awhile and then ultimately had to be put to sleep. Oh God, I hope that isn't going to happen again.


I had to add, he just finished his tylen powder for his loose stool. I am trying to think of anything why a perfectly healthy (seemingly so anyway) dog out of the blue has this happen.


----------



## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Keeping you and Carsten in my thoughts.


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

So sorry, Thoughts/prayers going to you. Thank doG your experience got you guys through initial seizure cause Carsten was not there, he was off in seizure land.


----------



## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm so sorry!! Thoughts and prayers for both you and Carsten!
Hopefully the vet can give you the answers


----------



## Moxie (Sep 9, 2010)

We're sending best wishes to you and Carsten, what a scary situation. Let us know how things go at the vet.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Just got back from the vet. Basically did a CBC to the tune of $190.00 and now we wait. Hopefully it is nothing. It is not a common thing for Rotties to have epilepsy but it is of course, possible. Brain tumor or infection was mentioned. None of the news is anything a person wants to hear about their much loved dog. Carsten should be worn out as he expended some serious energy flailing around and salivating but he is full of it and still incredibly anxious. He wants to go out but freaks if he isn't touching me. I am afraid to go to work tomorrow and am thinking about calling in. Guess I will wait and see how he does this evening. He is currently laying down by me again, in almost the same spot the whole thing took place. Poor little Angel boy.


----------



## ZachAttackandWilbur (Aug 31, 2011)

Really Sorry and let us know when it comes back. Hopefully it was just a freak one time thing caused by something they can find.


----------



## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

This made me so upset to read. It brought flashbacks of when Zoe had her first seizure. You were stronger than I was. I balled my eyes out because I feared she ate something bad (a dropped pill or chocolate) and that she was going to die. I had to call in sick to work so that I could take her to the vet, but I was still crying when I made the call so I don't think my boss quite understood what had happened. The vet told me it was likely idiopathic, as that is the most common reason for seizures in older dogs. After doing a blood panel, he told me that it may not happen again, but if it does to just keep track of when they happen and if it happens more often to bring her back in. Well, we kept track of her seizures for months. On average, they occurred every couple of weeks. But we didn't bring her back in until she had a seizure at around 8pm one night and then again at 3am. The vet called this cluster seizures and told me we could put her on the medication. I was concerned it would cause liver damage over time but he assured me that at her age, she would have to be on a high dosage and even then, it isn't very common. So I did it, and she hasn't had a seizure since (knock on wood). I know what you are going through. It quite traumatic to witness our pets going through such a harsh experience. 
I must say though, Zoe never acted aggressive when she came out of her seizures. She didn't have use of her legs for a couple minutes, as she was too weak. But she panted heavily and acted scared and confused. She also always went potty during and after the seizure (urinated during and defecated after).
My prayers are with you and Carsten. Hopefully it's a one time occurrence.


----------



## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Aaaww...I'm so sorry, Inga! My heart-felt prayers are with you both for good news from the vet. Sending healing vibes your way!! 
((hugs)) for you & Carsten.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

This is awful, I'm so sorry.


----------



## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Seizures are terrifying. It's been months since Marlin has had any, but I'm always afraid of it happening again. Marlin was diagnosed with Epilepsy, but given the seizures he had were so minor and they happened around the first month we adopted him and it was only two that happened a week apart, and his previous owners who had him for 5 years said he never had any while living with them I wonder if maybe it was depression or severe stress from his life change. I know Cattle Dogs are extremely sensitive and loyal to their owners, and being taken away from them and handed to complete strangers to live a totally different life probably was a lot harder on him then we realized. 

I can sympathize a lot with you. I hope everything turns out okay with Carsten.


----------



## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I had a Greyhound that had seizures and she was the same way when she was coming out of them. She would growl and was very disoriented for quite a while. We had her on medication but that was years ago and I am sure they did know that much about it.

Remmy, on the other hand, when he had his seizure, he just stiffened out and fell over. His heart was racing a mile a minute and his eyes just stared. He came out of it in about 15 minutes and seemed back to normal. The Vets don't like to put them on medication unless it starts to happen often. Remmy had anothe seizure, a very short one, about six weeks later. Took him into the Vet and they did blood work and came to the conclusion it was his liver. He was on medication (antibiotics and lactulose) for a month and has been fine ever since. I am taking him in for blood work sometime this month to make sure everything is alright before I start doing Agility with him again.

Hope everything goes alright with Carsten and it is a one time thing. Sometimes they never can find out what has caused it.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I would be so happy if it was a once in a lifetime event. I will however be leery to take him places that I took him in the past. I hate not knowing. I just feel sad again, he has been my rock too. I hate seeing those I love suffer. He has finally settled in a little bit. He is finally sleeping but every time I move, he jumps up and follows me. I guess that is pretty normal too. I am so afraid to leave him tomorrow.


----------



## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

Let us know what the vet says.


----------



## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

OMG Inga  that is so scary! I hope that the vet work shows something, something easy to treat or maybe a toxin or something that triggered this. -hugs-


----------



## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

My good, healthy thoughts are going out to you. 
Why does it seem like terrible things are happening lately? I don't know, but it seems that this is just a bad month for members thus far. I'm crossing my fingers and toes for my dogs and everyone elses that nothing else bad happens.
That must be terrifying.
Hope Carsten doesn't have another one and everything comes back normal.


----------



## Lamora (Aug 16, 2011)

I can't imagin how you must feel, would not wish that feeling on anyone. Hope everything will be ok...Keep us posted~~ prayers and good thoughts headed your way~~


----------



## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Hoping for the best for both of you, and that you get (good!) answers soon. Poor boy


----------



## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

Please give him a hug from me and Abba, and keep us updated.


----------



## JessCowgirl88 (Mar 15, 2011)

oh no poor baby  i can only imagine how it was, i can imagine beyond scarey, my thoughts are prayers are with you both. will be watching for updates.


----------



## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Sometimes these things come out of the clear blue and never happen again. Crossing my fingers for poor Carsten.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Oh no! Hoping that everything is ok. Update us when you know more!!


----------



## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

How scary!! I hope that if I am ever in that situation I am able to act as quickly and smartly as you did. Sending lots of good thoughts and prayers your way.


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

OMG Inga. I hope every thing turns out for the best.


----------



## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I am sending good thoughts your way. Keep us posted.


----------



## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

I hope that no news is good news... Y'all are both in my thoughts. Please, please keep us posted.


----------



## HyperFerret (Feb 7, 2009)

So sorry Inga! I know how scary that is, though your experience sounds far worse than mine. Moomoo has seizures too. But when he has his, it's random and sudden, and he just goes kinda limp but with stiff legs. He falls over almost like a fainting goat. His eyes remain open as he stares off in space. His seizures only last a few minutes though, usually by the time I'm bringing his head around he's usually coming out of it. When he comes out of it, he's just dazed and momentarily weak but then once stable enough to walk, he was just fine. So Moomoo's was nothing like what poor Carsten went through! My heart races every time Moomoo has one of his seizures, I'd be an utter mess if his were anything like Carstens! Moomoo doesn't have them frequently, so I was given pills to give him after the seizures to help prevent further seizures.

Hoping that Carsten won't have anymore!


----------



## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Hoping it was a one-time thing. Seizures are scary! My Willie was always very disoriented after one.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

So sorry to hear this! Lots of hugs and vibes for you guys!


----------



## Morrwyn (Aug 13, 2009)

I hope everything is okay with Carsten, give him an extra hug from me.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Well, it is 11:40 we just got back from the emergency vet. Carsten had a 2nd seizure. I had just fallen asleep when Oliver nudged me awake. I could hear flailing around in my bathroom. Carsten was in there, on his side in full seizure mode. He was trying to get up and lunging forward, he fell into the tub and then tried to get out slamming into me and back flat on his side. I don't know how long this one lasted as I wasn't there for the first part. I decided at that point to take him in so they could start him on something in hopes of his being quiet for the night. Obviously I won't be going to work tomorrow. They gave him a shot of Kepra (sp?) and sent me home with Phenobarb which I have to give every 4 hours. I put Carsten in a kennel as I can't be worrying about him falling down steps or something. He is screaming his head off right now. He is so insecure and just wants to be right by me. I was going to have him in my room but... I can't. I am typing this because obviously, I can't sleep with a Rottweiler screaming his head off a few rooms away. I am emotionally exhausted already. 

I just wish I knew how this was going to play out. I know it sounds cold but I don't have money to spend on a dog if he is going to end up being put to sleep anyway. Phenobarb is really hard on the liver so... I am sure his life will be shorter as it is. They said, it might not control his seizures anyway. Maybe it will, hopefully it will. I love this boy, it is so unfair. Sorry for rambling but I am so sad and worn out. My dogs are my kids, I have nobody else so they are my everything and it has been so much bad stuff happening as of late.


----------



## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

More healing prayers are going out Inga, for you and Carsten. I dreaded reading after the first few words here as I was hoping it was a good update . . . my heart goes out to you. Try to rest if you can.

SOB


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Ugh I was not hoping to hear he had another seizure.  We know how much you love Carsten, so it is not cold, and I would be happy to help with his vet bills in any way I can. I hope the pheno works.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I can't believe I just saw this, Poor Carsten  I'm keeping you guys in my prayers. I love that boy so much


----------



## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Oh Inga, I'm just getting to read this. Carsten is in my prayers. try to get some rest, perhaps putting the crate in your room will help him feel more secure or puting a baby gate across your door so he can be in the room and not get near the stairs. When he comes out of the siezures I'd have something sweet for him as I've heard it helps shorten the recovery time and reduce the disorientation. 

(((HUGS)))


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Just read 2nd Seizure, sitting here looking for words of comfort but don't have a clue, keep strong if you can Carsten needs your strength now.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh Inga ... I am so sorry. I just read this as my internet is messed up ... all good thoughts and prayers go out to you and Carsten. I am lost for words.


----------



## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

I am praying for Carsten, and for you.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Thank you everyone. After an hour of full out screaming in his kennel, he fell asleep as did I. We slept at least an hour to hour and a half. He then started crying again so I rushed out to him. I wanted him to know he wasn't alone out there. I let him come out of the kennel and took him outside to potty. He was slipping and tripping all over. It was almost time for his next dose of meds (every 4 hours) so I hung out with him and then gave him the second dose. I put him back in his kennel and hoped to get a little more sleep. Guess that wasn't in the cards, I did lay there and rest for awhile but now am up again (this time thanks to Eleanor) I got up, fed the critters and let them out again. Carsten is staggering around like he cannot control his back end. After he went out, I brought him back in laid down on the floor with him and just talked to him and petted him. He was very calm for that. He is used to me giving him massages and seemed comfortable with that. 

I know many of you have said your dogs "snap out of it and are normal" but Carsten is NOT normal. It is like he is drunk out of his head. He seems lost, afraid and just... a different dog. I am so sad and afraid that Carsten has checked out and I will never get to see him again. I know we all think our dogs are the best and that is no different for Carsten. He was a dog I could comfortably take into any situation without concern. When my sister had her new baby she brought him home and we all felt totally secure having him right around with Carsten. Carsten was safe playing with little 4 pound dogs, playing with little kids, cats, you name it. He worked hard as a therapy dog and was such a hit with his gentle ways. I miss him so much already and he is laying right here next to me, but it isn't HIM. 

I am sorry that this is rambling, I just can't think straight and I am crying so hard I can barely see the computer screen. Why in the world does that have to happen to such a sweet boy. Haven't I had enough lately with my dogs needing vet attention? You have no idea how guilty I feel for kicking Carsten off the bed yesterday morning, before any of this happened but it was a normal thing lately. He would just jump up to tell me it was time to get up but he always laid right on me. Even last night when he had the second seizure, I again had to remove the other pets from the area to keep them safe. In the few seconds it took me, Carsten had jumped up on the bed and was staggering around like he was about to topple off of it. 

I know it sounds cruel but I wish I knew how this was going to play out ahead of time. If at the end of all this, he is going to need to be put to sleep, I would do it right away and not drag out the suffering or the expense. Oh God, please help him.

The ER doctor said that on Phenobarb, his liver will take a hit. It sounds like his life will be significantly shorter as it is. I opted to give him the Kepra loading dose but it isn't realistic to keep him on that due to cost and the fact that he would need 4 doses a day. Phenobarb is 2 times a day after the initial loading dose. 

No seizures in 10 hours now but he is high as a kite on meds. Also I don't know if it is the meds making his back not work or he hurt himself during one of the seizures. 


Edit to add: The reason the kennel is in the living room is due to the temperature. Vet said what usually kills a dog during the seizures is the body temperature. Carsten is always warm, but he was really hot last night so I thought it best to put him in the wire kennel in the living room where it is cool.


----------



## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

I don't know you or Carsten well at all, but my heart is breaking for you all the same. I'm so sorry for what you're going through


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

Many prayers for Carsten and for you. (((HUGS))).


----------



## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Inga, I'm crying for you both right now. If he's having trouble with his back end I'd be talking to the doctor, I don't think it's the pheno, but I could be wrong (the only experience I have with Pheno is a close friend from HS who had epilepsy). If it's not the Pheno, he may need a brain CT to see if there's a clot or damage from the siezure. The personality change you're seeing makes me suspicious of this as well. Keeping you both in my prayers!


----------



## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Oh Inga....I'm so sorry for you and Carsten
all you can do is take it one day at a time right now till you know more
I have been in a similar situation before....spending a large amount of money trying to say my lovely dobe boy...and in the end we still had to put him to sleep ...I don't regret spending the money but I do feel sad that he spent a week suffering ...sometimes I'm not sure I made the right choice 

Please let me know if you guys need anything....even if its just to have someone to ramble to : )


----------



## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

Oh Inga, I have no words. Just hugs for you and your sweet boy.


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Loki Love said:


> I don't know you or Carsten well at all, but my heart is breaking for you all the same. I'm so sorry for what you're going through


Pretty much what Loki said. You and Carsten are in my thoughts.


----------



## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

My prayers for you and Carsten.


----------



## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh Carsten. Hugs to you and your sweet boy... hoping for the best.  <3


----------



## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

NO NO NO! This just isn't right! Carsten knock this off NOW! 

I'm in tears. There isn't much that I can say except I understand where you are coming from and if it makes you feel any better even in the slightest I would be having the same thoughts as you are. -hugs- to you and you always have us friends here who are praying for you and Carsten.


----------



## railNtrailcowgrl (Jul 24, 2008)

Oh Inga! I'm so sorry, I'm just now reading this. I would say something about his loss of body control to the vet. Any little clue may help solve this mystery. Prayers for you both!


----------



## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Oh, I am so sorry to hear that!

I don't know much about epilepsy in dogs, but I had a series of seizures once myself and I can tell you, I was not the same for at least a week. All my muscles were extremely sore and out of whack and my memory was a mess. It was like all my memories had been shaken out of place and it took some time (a long time) for all the circuitry to work again. Maybe it's not like that for every person (or every dog), but I wouldn't count on Carsten never going back to being the same dog post-seizure. Give him some time, a seizure like the one you describe (in people it would be called a tonic-clonic seizure) really is a horribly traumatic event. I know it's really hard right now, but you're doing the right thing to stick with your pup right now.

The pheno probably makes him feel funny. It's a sedative. Keppra also has some weird side effects. Once he's settled into his meds, hopefully his true personality will show back up.

I agree that if he keeps having trouble walking, you should consider having some imaging done. It could be that whatever is causing the seizures is also causing the walking problems (e.g. infection, blood clot).


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Blood levels came back and all looks good. After reading everything I could I have decided to take him in for a lead exposure test today. I have an old house and it has peeling lead paint on the outside. Carsten with his "mommy complex" COULD have licked the paint while waiting for me to come open the door. I want to rule out everything I can. I HATE not having a definitive answer. I am also calling the breeder today to see if anyone else had an issue like this. This sucks because one second your dog is totally healthy and normal and the next....


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

Inga...you mentioned you were cleaning yesterday?

Is there *anyway* he could've gotten into your cleaning agents? 

I ask because our lab x had a seizure about a year & 1/2 ago. And it was completely my fault. I had been cleaning and had the dogs outside in their fenced in yard. Some time went by and Ginger wanted to come in--so I let her. Well I never even thought about it until she had a seizure and then a while later I noticed I hadn't flushed the toilet --and I'm sure she drank out of it. 

I'm not calling you an idiot, if it's possible--just myself. I have beat the heck out of myself for it and am OVERLY cautious now to the point where I only use vinegar/water and baking soda in the downstairs toilet now because I know my big dogs will drink out of it, if they have the option. 

She was really weak for a good day or two, but is back to her normal happy self now. 

She did have ONE Other episode about 6 months later--though not as severe. No way she got into cleaning agents this time--but the vet isn't concerned because there have only been two incidents and none since (in about a year or more). I'm hoping that his issues are minor and that you don't have to ever deal with this again.


----------



## Max and Me (Aug 19, 2011)

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Carsten. I had a large GSD mix who developed a severe seizure disorder at 5 years of age. I have experienced the fear, exhaustion, and uncertainty that you are going through. I was wondering if your vet has suggested an x-ray of Carsten's head to check for a head injury? When Mick had his seizures he would be blind, uncoortinated and wandering for varrying amounts of time. This can be part of the post ictal stage. The only thing that kept him safe and calm was for me to hold him by the collar and stroke him. It can take time for them to snap out of it.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

The cleaning thing is a good thought but no, I wasn't using anything he could have gotten into. He follows me from room to room also so, I would have noticed him. I did have a brief thought that he may have licked the peeling paint on the outside of my house as he was waiting to come in. I just took him to the vet this morning again to have a lead level exposure checked. He is resting peacefully (ish) right now. I hope to be able to sleep tonight as well. I am old and going with out sleep makes me feel like I have a hang over and I have not been drinking. My eyelids feel like they are 500 pounds each but I am afraid to sleep because last time I did, he seized again.


----------



## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Reading all this is making me want to cry right here at work. I'd be an absolute mess in your shoes right now. Completely understand your wanting to know what's going to happen, the not knowing would be driving me just as crazy as the seizures themselves would. My thoughts and well wishes to you and Carsten.


----------



## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I'm so sorry Inga!  And I'm sorry that I'm just now seeing this too. I'll have you both in my thoughts.


----------



## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

You and Carsten are in my thoughts Inga.


----------



## brandiw (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry, Inga. I know this must be very scary for you and Carsten. I hope that the vet can give you some answers.


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

How is he doing this afternoon? And how are you? I hope all is well.


----------



## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm just reading this now. Inga, I am so sorry. Please know I'm thinking of you and praying for Carsten.


----------



## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm so so sorry you are both going through this.

I don't know if you use Facebook much anymore, but I'll send you an invite to the epilepsy pet group when I get home tonight. It's led by a former DF member you will probably recognize, and there are a lot of people there who unfortunately have a great deal of experience with what you are going through now, both technically and emotionally...they really are a great bunch and should be able to help a bit as you work through information and make decisions.

Hoping and praying for the best...


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Dec 9, 2011)

Somehow, I missed this whole thread until now. You are in my thoughts, Inga and Carsten both. Here is hoping for a positive outcome.


----------



## jenz (Aug 20, 2010)

My parents have 2 pugs with seizure problems, and a friend of mine had a GSD/Dane with epilepsy. He lived a long, good life on meds. Wishing you the best of luck with your Rottie!

Jen


----------



## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I'm thinking of you and Carsten, and I hope the vet figures this out very soon.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Thanks everyone. We are currently 16 hours without a seizure. I hope that means the meds are working. He has one more dose for his "loading dose" then it goes down to only 1 pill 2 times daily. I hope that will continue to work for him. He has horrific gas again likely from the stress on his system and the meds. He is sleeping comfortably right now. Then again, he was sleeping comfortably when this whole thing started. I took him to the vet today to run a lead exposure test. I will get results tomorrow on that. He will be in his kennel anytime I can't be watching him from now on. I am paranoid to do anything with him for fear of triggering another seizure. He is my walking partner, and LOVES his runs in the woods. I just want to cry again thinking he may never get to experience the swims in the creek he loves so much for fear he might start to seize and I couldn't get to him.


----------



## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

oh Inga! i am so sorry. sending tons of get well vibes for carsten


----------



## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Really sorry, Inga. Please keep us updated.


----------



## HyperFerret (Feb 7, 2009)

So sorry Inga. As I was reading about his second seizure, which I was hoping wouldn't have happened, I was feeling for you and was in tears. I don't think any of your thoughts are cruel at all. I hope you both get some much needed rest.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Yourself and Carsten are in my prayers still ... It is all so new that only time will tell. I hope the meds will keep the seizures under control and Carsten can still remain much himself.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Inga, I'm so sorry you're going through this. The first couple of weeks is the hardest as dogs adjust to the meds and such, but IME most dogs with epilepsy do very well in the long term. I'm thinking about you and Carsten. *hugs*


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

The whole thing is just a nightmare. Yesterday morning, he was normal, healthy, fun loving, sweet, gentle boy, Carsten. Today he is a wobbly mess that I have to watch every second for fear of another seizure. It is so unfair. Everytime I let myself think of it for a second I break down and cry. He is my love and he is suffering, I can't stand it. This is so cruel. What happened? What causes this? How can this be? It is so unfair.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Honestly I think seizures are one of the scariest things to witness. They're chaotic and make people feel so helpless. Try to hang in there.


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Just imagine how cruel this would be if Carsten did not have you and Oliver.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Omg Inga, I'm so sorry sending prayers & good thoughts your way, we all hope with all out might here that everything will be ok.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Inga, as someone also with an injured dog in the hospital right now, tho not from a seizure & I'm not making a comparison to your situation, but I am also facing the fact of a dog "never being the same" again & I can tell you that it hurts I also know how aching finances can also come into play. I had to put emergency funds together in a scramble in a hurry ..... I'm sorry this happened, I will definately keep you in my prayers.


----------



## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Inga, i just saw this just a bit ago.....my sister has a "doodle" that has been having seizures and she is still able to do all the things w/ her that she did b/4 they started....she is on pheno and doing well on it.....

one thing you might want to look into is the ketogenic diet....i don't generally put much stock into Wiki, but this is pretty right on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet .....or here http://www.webmd.com/epilepsy/ketogenic-diet-for-epilepsy

i'm so sorry to hear about Carston....you're both in our thoughts and prayers


----------



## Jesco (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear about your Carsten having seizures, my old dog also suffered from them however not as bad as your boy. Here's a site that I found extremely helpful when my dog started having seizures: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm. 

This site has a lot of information from different medications that can be used to help control seizures to what to do before, during, and after a seizure to help get your dog through them. This site was all around a great resource for me when I was first learning about seizures in dogs.


----------



## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Inga, I know this is a lot to think about but for what it's worth a dog came through rescue here recently on phenobarbital for seizures and she was 10 and in fabulous health...had been on the drug for many years. Seizures have been totally under control even through the stress of rehoming and she is fabulous with strange people, strange pets, etc. 

Shalva's FCR who's has seizures since he was 2 or 3 is now 10 despite having to be on much stronger seizure medications. And he still got to do a lot of swimming, etc...he just only swam when his seizures were under control and he wore a lifejacket as a precaution. 

Hopefully this is something that is temporary and will pass, but even if not there _is _still hope. 

Tell that sweet boy he has a whole crowd of people pulling for him.


----------



## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

Just saw this. Hope everything goes well. Sending good vibes Carsten's way.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

This has been en emotional roller coaster. Last night was horrid. I put Carsten in his kennel at 10:00 and went to bed. He screamed until 2:00 when I got up to let him outside to potty and then back in the kennel. He screamed until 4:30 when I couldn't take it since I had not slept at all. Actually I slept about 6 hours in the last 3 days. I gave up at 4:30 and I let him out of the kennel hoping he would just lie down by my bed. He wouldn't. I got him up on my bed and he put his head on mine and we both fell alseep for about 2 hours. I woke up with my arm asleep from him laying on me. I started talking to him and he gave me a kiss. Then the whining started again. I tried to get him off the bed but it was like his back end was paralyzed he was freaking out staring at me and screaming. I gently helped him off the bed and his legs were flopping all over. It took about 15 minutes (while I am bawling mind you) to try to get him up to his feet. He staggered and fell, staggered and fell. I fed him and he staggered out to go potty and back in. I flipped his back foot over to see if he would try to right it and he didn't.  He was anxious and whining but I put him in the kennel and took a quick shower. I decided to take him in and have him put to sleep and needed to cry in the shower without him seeing me. 

I called the vet and he had me come in at 9:30 which was an hour of playing with Carsten and just holding him and telling him what a good boy he was. We walked (him staggering) around the house, he even played for a few minutes with a toy but he keeps crying. I got him to the vet and prayed all the while there that this was not it. I love this dog. The vet thinks we should hold out longer. He thinks that the ER vet actually over dosed him and that as I wean him back, he might still be alright. He wants to wait for the lead level results also which won't be back until 3:30 this afternoon. I had a burst of happy followed by... "this is still not over" and now more anxious waiting time while my dog screams and cries. I am exhausted and emotionally spent. I really thought I would be here typing a memorial but, we are still both here together Thank God. I keep praying this will get better. I can't take much more.

This was taken at a dogshow the weekend before last









The picture of health









Now he looks like a stroke victim his face is hanging on the skull, he can't stand upright without help. I so wish I knew how to fix this. No person and no dog or any other animal should have to endure anything like this. My poor baby.


----------



## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

poor guy. Hope with the new dosage things become better.


----------



## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Inga, PLEASE get a CT run on his brain, he HONEST TO GOD sounds like he might be having ministrokes. It can be stopped with meds and he could recover most of his function.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> Inga, PLEASE get a CT run on his brain, he HONEST TO GOD sounds like he might be having ministrokes. It can be stopped with meds and he could recover most of his function.


I mentioned a CT to my vet and he wants me to give it a few more days. Now that the dose of Phenobarb is smaller he thinks a lot of this will right itself. I am hoping he is right. I honestly cannot take much more. It wasn't for my convenience I was thinking to have him euthanized this morning, it was for him. He is a suffering pup right now. He is currently crying loudly again, it is so sad. The doctors agreed that he is basically stoned out of his head right now and scared because of it. They think it could take anywhere from 3 days to a week. Sadly, they don't know if he will begin to seize again after the meds drop down. I hate this.


----------



## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Hon, we ALL know you're not thinking of yourself. (((HUGS)))


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

I really was hoping and praying the worse was over. Many continued prayers for Carsten and you and lots of (((HUGS))).


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

More positive thoughts to you and Carsten. I hope the recent events are due to over-medication and easily fixed.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Inga I'm just heartbroken for you guys but holding out hope for you.


----------



## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

I am praying for you and Carsten, Inga.


----------



## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm so sorry that You and Carsten are going though this...((HUGS))


----------



## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Poor Carsten and poor you.... I don't even know what to say.... I just hope it's nothing major


----------



## brandiw (Jan 20, 2010)

Continued good thoughts for you and Carsten.


----------



## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

I know I haven't posted in here yet, but I have been keeping up and sending all my vibes and prayers to Carsten. <3 I hope they figure out what's going on soon so you're boy can go back to normal and I don't think anyone here would every think that you're thinking of yourself. We all know how much better and it's very clear how much you love your boy.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Carsten boy, you can pull thru this. Please god let him be ok.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Continued prayers for the both of you ........


----------



## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

Oh my goodness, hang in there Inga. I'm so sorry this is happening. Big HUGS to you!


----------



## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Inga I'm so sorry for you both, and hoping upon hope that he recovers.


----------



## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Inga, all my thoughts are with you and Carsten. I'm so sorry for the both of you. I really hope that he recovers. He's a strong boy.


----------



## beverley (Oct 7, 2010)

im praying for both of you.


----------



## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

I've been offline lately and I just saw this!!
I feel so horrible for you, and sending all of the good vibes I can. I went though a cat having seizures (only guess was coolant poisoning), it was a nightmare. I spent two days bawling and he wasn't even my cat technically.....I can only imagine how you're holding up. 
Sending good vibes for Carsten and for you.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm so, so sorry you two have to go through this. I wish you the best of luck that reducing the dose will help.


----------



## osdbmom (Feb 15, 2011)

Inga.....I really think this is a good idea. I know you hate to see him hurting and crying, and that's why you made your initial decision, Bc you love him so much...and what a good owner you are for doing that. But if you wait, and he does get better, that's great. And if he doesn't, then by next week you'll know without a doubt you did the right thing by him. There wont be any awful " what ifs" in your mind to drive you crazy. 
But, hopefully, its just the medicine and it works out of his system. Ill be praying.g that it does.

This has really been a rough week here at DF.


----------



## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Reading the thread and hoping for a good update this evening. Someone else mentioned knowing a 10 year old dog that had been on phenobarb most of his/her life, I've had the same experience. I know an elderly beagle who has been on phenobarb AND potassium bromide for years and years, and his liver values and enzymes are checked every 6 months and he hasn't had problems thus far. I hope the reducing the dosage helps him, and if not I hope the vet can find and fix whatever is causing his problems and you can relax and enjoy him again (((Inga & Carsten)))


----------



## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I am somehow just seeing this. I was hoping that, as a latecomer to the story, I was going to get a happy ending. I pray that I still will.

Please, please tell us if you need anything: money, meals, someone to watch Carsten while you run an errand. We will figure it out for you.


----------



## Jesco (Feb 10, 2012)

Hopefully lowering the Phenobarbital dose helps, it sounds like Carsten might have Ataxia. Maybe you could try him on a different medication like Potassium Bromide or Gabapentin, I don't believe either of those effect the liver since I know your concerned about that. My old dog was on Gabapentin the last couple of weeks of her life, although not for seizures she had Osteosarcoma and it was help with the pain and it was very affordable. 

Is there any chance that Carsten could've gotten a tick on him at anytime? I know that there are some tick borne diseases that can cause seizures and symptoms like his. Also here's a list of substances and plants that can cause seizures in dogs.

I'm not a religious person at all but I'm praying for you and Carsten.


----------



## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

I keep checking in for an update. You and Carsten haven't left my thoughts all night. I'm really hoping for the best. 

Hugs, Inga.


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

FilleBelle said:


> Please, please tell us if you need anything: money, meals, someone to watch Carsten while you run an errand. We will figure it out for you.


This. I'm not good with things to say, but I will do whatever I can from here.


----------



## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Sending HUGE prayers to both of you.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Thinking of you tonight. Hugs for both of you.


----------



## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm wondering, how old is Carsten and how high of a dose of the Pheno is he on? When the vet told me I could put Zoe on Pheno, I didn't want to because I heard it could be harsh on the liver but he told me in an older dog, the chances are lower for liver damage. If Carsten is an older dog, the Pheno could give him a better life if the seizures are that bad. Whatever happens, I'm hoping for the best for you and Carsten.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Just saw this. I'm sooo sorry! Casten can pull through!! Lots of vibes and get well wishes!


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

4 hours of uninterrupted sleep! This is the most sleep that I have had since this whole nightmare began. Last night I was a bad mom and instead of bothering to even try the kennel, I let him loose in my room. I hoped that he would sleep on his own dog bed which is right next to my bed. He did lay down there for about an hour but then I could hear him doing circles and feel the bed getting slammed by his body every few minutes. I was afraid he would hurt himself or break my bed so I helped him up onto my bed where we both passed out cold for 4 beautiful hours. I am beginning to think this whole thing is a ploy to gain "bed rights." I feel that through this whole thing I have aged 10 years but know that in part that is just the total lack of sleep. I feel somewhat better today with my lovely 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep. What a glorious thing sleep is when you have not had any.

The doctor said one of the major causes of seizures is head injuries and though I know he didn't have a head injury before, I can't say he doesn't now. He walks or flip flops about like a brand new foal (baby horse) in the first few minutes up on it's legs. He makes he way through the house by slamming head first into walls, furniture or flat out onto the floor. My house is tile and hardwood so he doesn't have the best footing to start. I am constantly trying to keep him calm and remind him to walk but he is so out of sorts that he basically lunges and falls and repeats. This morning after our beautiful 4 hours, It took me about 5 minutes to get him off the bed and get his legs under him again. Once there, they stayed there for about 15 seconds and he flopped down again. We repeated this exercise all the way to the kitchen for breakfast where I faithfully held his back legs under him while he gulped down his food in an uncharacteristic way of eating for him. I then TRIED to help him down the stairs (6) to go outside to potty. Basically he slid down the stairs on his belly and then galloped out the door. Upon his re-entrance to the house, he tried galloping up the steps and then did a head slam into the kitchen table, spun around twice and landed like Bambi on Ice with all 4 legs in a different direction. He MUST have dark, deep bruises all over every inch of his body and head and muscle tears. He must be in horrid pain.

On an upside, his cognitive abilities seem to be improving a little. I tell him "sit" and he flops down to a sit, I tell him "down" and he falls onto his belly. I pushed it and told him "high 5" which he promptly did and then flipped over backwards. We won't be doing that one again for awhile. I honestly do not know how I am going to continue this as he requires 100% of my time. Even before the seizures he would have been quite happy to have 100% of my time but now he is even more needy. It is almost impossible to get any time to do anything so my house is trashed. Yesterday out of desperation I spread dog food all over the floor in 3 rooms to keep him wandering around eating and keep him busy. Oliver helped clean that up and Carsten moved furniture, flipped over my coffee table and antique phonograph in an effort to find pieces of food that do not exist. I played clean up after that while he followed me around whining for more help that I do not know how to give.

I certainly hope that his physical functions can come back soon, my back and knees are killing me. My next dog will NEVER be on the bed. I am just going to go out there and say no matter what, NO MORE DOGS ON THE BED after these two. I need to get a different house where I can have a dog screaming in a kennel 10 rooms away and will still be able to sleep comfortably without hearing them. Ahh, a girl can dream, right?


----------



## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Inga said:


> 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep! This is the most sleep that I have had since this whole nightmare began. Last night I was a bad mom and instead of bothering to even try the kennel, I let him loose in my room. I hoped that he would sleep on his own dog bed which is right next to my bed. He did lay down there for about an hour but then I could hear him doing circles and feel the bed getting slammed by his body every few minutes. I was afraid he would hurt himself or break my bed so I helped him up onto my bed where we both passed out cold for 4 beautiful hours. I am beginning to think this whole thing is a ploy to gain "bed rights." I feel that through this whole thing I have aged 10 years but know that in part that is just the total lack of sleep. I feel somewhat better today with my lovely 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep. What a glorious thing sleep is when you have not had any.
> 
> The doctor said one of the major causes of seizures is head injuries and though I know he didn't have a head injury before, I can't say he doesn't now. He walks or flip flops about like a brand new foal (baby horse) in the first few minutes up on it's legs. He makes he way through the house by slamming head first into walls, furniture or flat out onto the floor. My house is tile and hardwood so he doesn't have the best footing to start. I am constantly trying to keep him calm and remind him to walk but he is so out of sorts that he basically lunges and falls and repeats. This morning after our beautiful 4 hours, It took me about 5 minutes to get him off the bed and get his legs under him again. Once there, they stayed there for about 15 seconds and he flopped down again. We repeated this exercise all the way to the kitchen for breakfast where I faithfully held his back legs under him while he gulped down his food in an uncharacteristic way of eating for him. I then TRIED to help him down the stairs (6) to go outside to potty. Basically he slid down the stairs on his belly and then galloped out the door. Upon his re-entrance to the house, he tried galloping up the steps and then did a head slam into the kitchen table, spun around twice and landed like Bambi on Ice with all 4 legs in a different direction. He MUST have dark, deep bruises all over every inch of his body and head and muscle tears. He must be in horrid pain.
> 
> ...


I was hoping you would get some sleep, and hopefully you can get more! There are quite a few dogs who, if in pain, will withdraw and not want ANYONE near. I know it's frustrating for him to want help that you can't give, but it's a testament to his devotion to you...I hope he improves greatly this weekend and is able to get physical control over himself very soon, so you can BOTH relax!


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Inga ... I am so glad you were able to get some sleep. Things do tend to look a little clearer when rested some. Poor Carsten ... he is a fighter though! You ca certainly tell that by the way he is needy. Did the vet say how long it will approximately take for the proper dose of meds to take hold?

This has been a horrible few days here on DF with the tragedies taking place. I was almost afraid to log in this morning. Still ... I will keep good thoughts and say prayers for all of you. Sometimes it is just very hard to understand why these things happen ... but everything is for a reason according to what you believe ... and I believe that the Man upstairs has it all planned out.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Thank you everyone, it is a long hard road but hopefully it will be one worth taking. If I have my boy at the end, I am happy to do so.



Abbylynn said:


> but everything is for a reason according to what you believe ... and I believe that the Man upstairs has it all planned out.


 Yes I agree but I must admit, I do not always like his plans. Maybe when I am looking at this from the other side, after the fact, I will see a reason that I cannot currently see. Maybe it is for a community of dog lovers to all pray for a common goal? Either way, I appreciate the prayers more then you will ever know and I am sure Carsten would too if he could understand it. I think his clarity has improved some but then he has moments where he stands in front of me staring as if to say "who are you?" "who am I?" "How did I get here?" or something like that. His head kind of sways back and forth as if he cannot possibly hold it still and his eyes are glazed over. That is hard to see. I was momentarily relieved when I told him to sit and he did it though. Small improvement it seems but I will take it.


----------



## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I keep checking for updates, praying for both of you. None of us know what's next in the cards for any of us but just know we're all thinking of you guys, hoping for a great outcome. Wish I lived near you so I could help somehow.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Inga said:


> Thank you everyone, it is a long hard road but hopefully it will be one worth taking. If I have my boy at the end, I am happy to do so.
> 
> Yes I agree but I must admit, I do not always like his plans. Maybe when I am looking at this from the other side, after the fact, I will see a reason that I cannot currently see. Maybe it is for a community of dog lovers to all pray for a common goal? Either way, I appreciate the prayers more then you will ever know and I am sure Carsten would too if he could understand it. I think his clarity has improved some but then he has moments where he stands in front of me staring as if to say "who are you?" "who am I?" "How did I get here?" or something like that. His head kind of sways back and forth as if he cannot possibly hold it still and his eyes are glazed over. That is hard to see. I was momentarily relieved when I told him to sit and he did it though. Small improvement it seems but I will take it.


Inga - I agree that I too do not always like the plans laid before me. All of these trials and tribulations I have been seeing these last few days has me looking into insurance also. The Healthy Paws Pet Insurance that someone else quoted to you is one of the best plans I have come across. I just checked it out. I am going to take out insurance on my dogs through them. They are much lower in cost than all the others I have looked into ... this may be of help to you. Abbylynn is only $33.03 per month with 90% reimbursement and a $50 deductible. There is a year wait on anything hip related and a 15 day wait period for illness and accident. There is a one time $25 processing fee added to the first payment. The company is out of WA. I know you don't have much free time to look at these things ... so I tried to help a little with my quote. Abbylynn being Dobe/Rott IMO has the need for insurance ........ not that my others don't !  Just one quote.

Edit: All three dogs for me are only $76. per month. but with different deductibles.

VPI is another good company to look at also ...... I am checking this one out before I commit to any one company.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I am praying for you, Inga & your boy. It's always hard when their bodies are fine & it's their mental state is the thing hats going, as someone who has lost a dear friend, I am surely hurting for you as well.


----------



## osdbmom (Feb 15, 2011)

It almost sounds like he can't see? If he had, somehow, aquired a head injury, I wonder if it could have affected his vision? Or maybe he has double vision? which could also be related to the head injury.

I have a 15 year old nephew with uncontrollable seizures....sometimes, he comes out of it and can't see quite right, doesnt remember his name, his parents, or his much beloved animals (he has at least 30 at all times)...he cant remember how to walk, or hold a fork...sometimes for a couple days. And sometimes, he has no memory at all, like he just totally loses 2-3 days of his life with no memory of them.

Im still hoping and praying for a good outcome.





Inga said:


> 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep! This is the most sleep that I have had since this whole nightmare began. Last night I was a bad mom and instead of bothering to even try the kennel, I let him loose in my room. I hoped that he would sleep on his own dog bed which is right next to my bed. He did lay down there for about an hour but then I could hear him doing circles and feel the bed getting slammed by his body every few minutes. I was afraid he would hurt himself or break my bed so I helped him up onto my bed where we both passed out cold for 4 beautiful hours. I am beginning to think this whole thing is a ploy to gain "bed rights." I feel that through this whole thing I have aged 10 years but know that in part that is just the total lack of sleep. I feel somewhat better today with my lovely 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep. What a glorious thing sleep is when you have not had any.
> 
> The doctor said one of the major causes of seizures is head injuries and though I know he didn't have a head injury before, I can't say he doesn't now. He walks or flip flops about like a brand new foal (baby horse) in the first few minutes up on it's legs. He makes he way through the house by slamming head first into walls, furniture or flat out onto the floor. My house is tile and hardwood so he doesn't have the best footing to start. I am constantly trying to keep him calm and remind him to walk but he is so out of sorts that he basically lunges and falls and repeats. This morning after our beautiful 4 hours, It took me about 5 minutes to get him off the bed and get his legs under him again. Once there, they stayed there for about 15 seconds and he flopped down again. We repeated this exercise all the way to the kitchen for breakfast where I faithfully held his back legs under him while he gulped down his food in an uncharacteristic way of eating for him. I then TRIED to help him down the stairs (6) to go outside to potty. Basically he slid down the stairs on his belly and then galloped out the door. Upon his re-entrance to the house, he tried galloping up the steps and then did a head slam into the kitchen table, spun around twice and landed like Bambi on Ice with all 4 legs in a different direction. He MUST have dark, deep bruises all over every inch of his body and head and muscle tears. He must be in horrid pain.
> 
> ...


----------



## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Haven't been on DF recently and am just seeing this thread. I'm so sorry you and your sweet boy are going through this! Many prayers heading your way for a good outcome.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Thank you. I know that when he first came out of the seizures he could not see anything or at least not see well enough to make out who we were. He was very disoriented. Now, I am pretty sure he knows who I am and his mind seems to be coming back some. I am also pretty sure he can see now too as he will walk though the house and find me and give me sloppy kisses when he does. The only time I am not right smack dab next to him is when I can distract him with food for a minute here and there, but he always comes right back to find me when he is done with the treat. I don't think it is his eyes that are the issue, his brain is not sending clear messages to his body yet as to how to move. His front and his back are not coordinated nor is his left and right. It seems as though his mind says "move left" and his body moves forward while the back moves right. He is all over the place yet but I hope that will improve. It just stinks, it really does. Perfectly healthy one second, life is good laying on his doggy bed next to me and the nightmare the next. I have looked at him laying on his doggy bed often while reading threads about abused dogs or something and thought "he is perfectly safe now" but I guess, it can happen anywhere. He was just laying there sleeping, happy and it hit.


----------



## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Inga said:


> Thank you. I know that when he first came out of the seizures he could not see anything or at least not see well enough to make out who we were. He was very disoriented. Now, I am pretty sure he knows who I am and his mind seems to be coming back some. I am also pretty sure he can see now too as he will walk though the house and find me and give me sloppy kisses when he does. The only time I am not right smack dab next to him is when I can distract him with food for a minute here and there, but he always comes right back to find me when he is done with the treat. I don't think it is his eyes that are the issue, his brain is not sending clear messages to his body yet as to how to move. His front and his back are not coordinated nor is his left and right. It seems as though his mind says "move left" and his body moves forward while the back moves right. He is all over the place yet but I hope that will improve. It just stinks, it really does. Perfectly healthy one second, life is good laying on his doggy bed next to me and the nightmare the next. I have looked at him laying on his doggy bed often while reading threads about abused dogs or something and thought "he is perfectly safe now" but I guess, it can happen anywhere. He was just laying there sleeping, happy and it hit.


Willie generally acted like he couldn't see, and was very poorly coordinated after a particularly bad seizure. He went into status once, and after that, he couldn't even stand up - would just drag his back legs behind. If you put him on his feet, he would stumble around until he fell over. I was ready to let him go, and my vet was thinking along the same lines - permanent brain damage. But he made a call to our local internist, who suggested that possibly Willie's brain was swollen from the frequency and severity of the seizures. She suggested prednisone and next day he walked out of the hospital at close to 100%. Also the best thing I found to control his seizures was gold bead implants (which is like permanent acupuncture) It gave him close to three years pretty much seizure free, and allowed me to decrease his meds.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I just noticed something strange and likely insignificant but Carsten is wagging his tail a LOT. He normally isn't a tail wagger. He wags or wiggles his whole body when excited but his tail only wags a little wag normally. I was just looking at him because he is whining at me again. The second I talked to him, his tail took off wagging. I looked away and repeated and each time I did it his tail started waggin like crazy. I have no idea what that means mind you but It is interesting to me.

Here he is, stones out of his mind. You can't hear him but he is whining like crazy and driving me to drink. If I had a bottle of wine in the house, I would have finished it and ordered more by now.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Awwwe .... poor guy. He looks comfortable at least.

Leeo does this tail wag thing when I just look at him for no apparent reason ... except ... I am convinced that this means he wants something and cannot tell me what it is. Just a thought Inga. Also I sometimes think Leeo is just thinking nice thoughts. Maybe it is Carstens way of saying thank you ..... despite what anyone else may think.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Abbylynn said:


> Awwwe .... poor guy. He looks comfortable at least.
> 
> Leeo does this tail wag thing when I just look at him for no apparent reason ... except ... I am convinced that this means he wants something and cannot tell me what it is. Just a thought Inga. Also I sometimes think Leeo is just thinking nice thoughts. Maybe it is Carstens way of saying thank you ..... despite what anyone else may think.


lol Yeah, it isn't the communication I find interesting, it is the fact that he has always used other methods of communication. His tail just wasn't so waggy but all of a sudden it is. Strange, I think.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

He is compromising.  Smart Boy! .... An all out butt wiggle would probably make him topple .... I believe he knows.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

LOL He surely would topple but he was laying down when he was wagging his tail. It just seems so odd that after 4 1/2 years he is all of a sudden wagging his tail like this and after a bout with Seizures and dope. I think he is still flying as high as a kite and that is likely the cause of it.


----------



## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

awwww...what a beautiful, brave Carsten. He doesn't look like he's in pain...a bit confused -understandably! But he seems to be alert and eager to get better! You can be strong for him! (no Rottie owners I know have ever been anything but!)

Bella and I are sending more love, prayers and hugs your way. =)

Please give Carsten a big hug and kiss for us!


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

Just wanted to let you know that even though I've been quiet the last couple of updates--I'm still praying like mad for you and Carsten. (((HUGS))).


----------



## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Inga said:


> I just wish I knew how this was going to play out. I know it sounds cold but I don't have money to spend on a dog if he is going to end up being put to sleep anyway. Phenobarb is really hard on the liver so... I am sure his life will be shorter as it is. They said, it might not control his seizures anyway. Maybe it will, hopefully it will. I love this boy, it is so unfair. Sorry for rambling but I am so sad and worn out. My dogs are my kids, I have nobody else so they are my everything and it has been so much bad stuff happening as of late.


My Willie spent several years having nearly uncontrolled seizures. He did better on potassium bromide than pheno (the pheno did nothing, apparently except make him very uncoordinated - and be aware that dogs on pheno DO get severe ataxia, but it gets better. What worked for Willie was gold bead implants, and he spent his last three years almost seizure free. We don't know how old he was as he came from the shelter, and came already seizuring. But we figure he made it to at least 12 or 13, despite his problems. And most of the time he was a pretty happy boy.
http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/ this is a wonderful website, support group that I found very valuable when I was new to dogs with seizures.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

This morning started out rough again. Carsten started out on his dog bed but again ended up in bed with me. He is too agitated when he isn't right by me, which is driving me insane. He lays down, gets up, falls down, slams into the bed, screams, and repeats the process. I just finally had it and lifted him up onto the bed. Once their trying to shove him over enough to make decent room for me was impossible so I now have a huge back ache. This morning started out much the same with the inability to move his back legs and a panic attack by him. Once up, it takes him some time but he starts to walk and though it isn't pretty he is staying upright a bit better now. This morning, he actually got his Sing a ma jigg and brought it to me and squeezed it a few times to say "Hello" This somehow made me very sad again and I wondered how can I miss my dog so much when he is standing right next to me? I am actually thinking of taking him to my mothers house today for a short visit. That and I can put him on leash and walk him around her house a bit better as mine is too small. She has a nice circle I can walk though the living room, dining room, kitchen, family room and back around. It might be good for both of us to get the heck out of here. Maybe if he is worn out he won't whine constantly. It is driving me nuts, I can't take that much more. It isn't his fault obviously, but it is unnerving.
I decided to take 2 more days off of work as I cannot leave him alone when he is so frightened and cannot move well yet. I am thinking of getting some baby bumpers for the kennel as well so when he does have to go in there it is somewhat padded.


----------



## osdbmom (Feb 15, 2011)

I wonder if it would work if you made a big bed on the floor, and both of you slept on that? I know its not ideal, but there might be more room, and you wouldnt have to keep lifting him up and down, anyway. We did that for awhile (my husband I taking turns) after Zoey's leg surgery, and I end up doing it a lot with sick kids. Might be worth a try.  
I agree with you that it would be good for both of you to get out of the house.


----------



## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Inga, 
I'm sorry I have not read this thread before now...I feel so sad for both of you. You've gotten some good advice here and yes, the meds can really make things very strange and stressful for Carsten. Giving him time to adjust and going on the maintenance dose should help with the stress and ataxia. 
I am sending mega doses of good thoughts your way...one day at a time..remember to breathe.

As for moving him around on the bed..put another sheet on top for him and then if you have to move him over use the sheet/blanket to do it..it should help him slide easier and take the stress off your body. 

Hugs.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm sorry you are going through this! I'd be terrified. I hope your vet finds the root cause and it is something that can be dealt with to eliminate the siezures.


----------



## Big Black Dog Mom (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm so sorry to read about this. It's horrible when it first starts and there are so many unknowns. I didn't read all the replies so forgive me if I'm repeating something that was already said. There's a great canine epilepsy site: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/ someone here pointed me towards it when Schmoo started having seizures. 

I know it's hard but try to take it one step at a time.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I do too, I get email updates from my subscribed threads, & hope every time I hear my iPhone email go off that it will be good news .


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Thank you. Update this morning is that last night he slept better on his dog bed. I felt him knock against the bed a few times and at 3:00 am, I did lift him up onto the bed because he was getting more agitated again. It was better then the night before from a sleep perspective and I am hopeful that it means progress. This morning however, he couldn't get off the bed again. It is so strange it is like his whole back half of his body quits working while he sleeps and it takes awhile for it to sort of wake up. Once up, he was able to move himself into the kitchen to eat. He can't seem to move his hind legs enough to do stairs yet so he sort of slides down and then lunges up them. He generally lands on his face at the top of the stairs. 

He hasn't had any more seizures so I am hopeful that it will at least be preventing those. I certainly hope that the physical thing improves a lot though as this really stinks. Also he lays around whining constantly and that is nerve racking for me. I am fighting the urge to choke him because of the constant annoying noise coming from him. Right now he is laying on the floor right next to me whining softly. All the progress I made on his gas issue prior to all this is for nothing because it is back 10 fold. The paint is all peeling off the walls of my house from his gas. PU!

I wish the roads were a little clear because I am tempted to take him for a short walk just to get him out of the house and tire him out. Maybe that would help too. I know before all this happened the only time he was annoying was when he needed more exercise. Maybe somewhere in there, he knows he needs more exercise. It is still weird how he looks at me too. I will tell him to do something and he is looking at me. You can actually see hims trying to figure out what I have said. His head still weaves back and forth and all of a sudden you see understanding then there is another brief second while he is trying to tell his body to follow the command. He is in there, and he is trying like heck to come out. I love my boys so much, I hope he can win this struggle.


----------



## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Inga said:


> Also he lays around whining constantly and that is nerve racking for me. I am fighting the urge to choke him because of the constant annoying noise coming from him. Right now he is laying on the floor right next to me whining softly.


Now, this reminds me of what Angel does the few times I've had to ACE her (for vet visits) and when she had her spay surgery and was still 'under the influence' of the meds. Hopefully the meds will get to a lower level so he can get used to them and be less anxious.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I too hope that he wins his struggle ... it seems like there is a little improvement going on!


----------



## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

I know when I had a dog spayed (some time ago) and she was still coming out, she would whine a good bit and was all wobbly. Carsten is more than likely feeling the effects of the meds. Poor baby...it has to be so confusing for him. And I know it's so tough on you. 

When does he go back to see the vet? Oh, and were you able to take him to your mom's for a little break? You are all in my thoughts and my critters and I send you lots of healing vibes for a full (and fast) recovery for Carsten.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Just got off the phone with the vet because I am on the verge of a breakdown and this has gone on long enough. We are cutting his meds back to 1/2 pill 2 times a day for 2 days and then back to the 1 pill 2 times daily. The vet still thinks most of this is caused by the large loading dose. Carsten must not be able to metabolize the drugs in his system. He is getting a little better but he is likely not to live through the next few days if I have to keep listening to the nonstop whining and watch him stumbling and slamming into everything. Actually, I would do it forever if it mean he was with me but... not at a cost to him. If he is suffering which I think he is. Hopefully the cut back will help a lot. Please pray that he doesn't have another seizure now at the lower dose. The vet is concerned about that since his seizure was so long and so severe.


----------



## JessCowgirl88 (Mar 15, 2011)

i am praying that he doesnt have any more seizures with the lower dose of meds. Keeping you both in my thoughts.


----------



## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Continuing to pray for Carsten!


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

Lots of prayers for Carsten and you!!


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Also continuing prayers.


----------



## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Hope the meds adjustment helps!


----------



## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Inga, I just read all this and I'm so very sorry you and Carsten are going through this .....I will be praying for you both. I know how hard it is to have a loved pet sick and feel helpless about it. Hopefully our prayers will be heard and Carsten will come through this trial as good as gold.


----------



## Max and Me (Aug 19, 2011)

Inga, I will continue to keep you and Carsten in my thoughts and prayers. I hope that lowering the meds helps. Maybe a combination of medications or a different one would help long term after you get him through this. My GSD mix did better on a combination on phenobarb and potassium bromide. I wish that there was something that I could do to help you. I've been in your shoes and don't wish it on anybody.


----------



## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

I have been keeping both of you in my thoughts since this all started! I hope the lowered dose helps him out more and that he doesn't have any more seizures. He's very lucky to have such a wonderful owner and vet to help him through this. Give him a hug for me!


----------



## Big Black Dog Mom (Oct 31, 2011)

Carsten has had a double whammy. The seizures take more time to recover from than a lot of vets realize. Then you add in the meds and it's a lot. Schmoo went through those phases. Twice I thought he wouldn't pull out and he did, so there really is hope. If he doesn't tolerate the phenobarbital well there are other meds. For Schmoo, Zonisamide was a blessing. It's expensive, but the weird thing is if you buy it through costco it cost 1/2 as much as anywhere else.

When schmoo was in the anxious stage I tended to give him things like kongs with frozen kibble and a bit of peanut butter in it. I'd adjust his meals as needed, but I was trying to give him something to vent his nervous energy on.

i don't know where you live or what your finances are but it's totally worth seeing a veterinary neurologist if you can. It gave Schmoo another year of quality life and he was an unusually tough case. 

I know how rough this is.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Big Black Dog Mom said:


> Carsten has had a double whammy. The seizures take more time to recover from than a lot of vets realize. Then you add in the meds and it's a lot. Schmoo went through those phases. Twice I thought he wouldn't pull out and he did, so there really is hope. If he doesn't tolerate the phenobarbital well there are other meds. For Schmoo, Zonisamide was a blessing. It's expensive, but the weird thing is if you buy it through costco it cost 1/2 as much as anywhere else.
> 
> When schmoo was in the anxious stage I tended to give him things like kongs with frozen kibble and a bit of peanut butter in it. I'd adjust his meals as needed, but I was trying to give him something to vent his nervous energy on.
> 
> ...



Actually this has been a really rough year and a half. I am pretty much tapped out so hopefully the less expensive meds will work at the right doseage. He was cut down to 1/2 a pill last night and this morning. Hopefully I will see dramatic improvements today. Then he is supposed to be on half dose tomorrow as well but honestly I am really afraid to keep him low tomorrow as I will be gone all day at work and he will be in his kennel. I hate to think if he seizes I won't be here to help him. Can't stand the thought of him going through that without someone to help him. Can't stand to think of him going through it at all.

Last night he slept through the night on his dog bed so that is progress. I got up early to get back into the swing of things for tomorrow when I am back at work. I hope the alarm clock doesn't set off a seizure for either him or me. It is hard to say but is seems there might be the slightest bit of progress on his coordination. I am hopeful


----------



## hast (Aug 17, 2011)

You and Carsten are in my thoughts (((hugs))) I hope he won't have any more seizures and will get better from here on ...


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Still keeping you and Carsten in my thoughts. Hope he improves with the new meds and dosage.


----------



## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

i really hope the lowered meds help. ((hugs))


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Prayers for both and hang tough Inga.


----------



## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Inga, still thinking of you and Carsten!


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I am cautiously optimistic that he's essentially been bad tripping and the lower dose will help. Good luck, hang in there.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Well, This is going to be a long day. Carsten will be in his kennel all day while I am at work. He hasn't had to be in a kennel while I was away for well over 2 years. He won't be happy but I think it is the safest option. I woke up at 2:30 this am and couldn't get back to sleep because I am so worried about the scenario. He has made marked improvement in his movement over the past 3 much smaller doses of meds. This morning was his 4th and final small dose, tonight he goes back to a full pill 2 times daily. I am just praying no seizures now that he is on the smaller dose. 

This morning the stupid filter pump on the aquarium is sputtering and popping for more added stress. Will it work until I get home or will it burn out? Ugh! Maybe it will give Carsten something to think about all day listening to it. Pray for no seizures... and no filter burn out. ha ha I appreciate all the support of this thread. You guys are all amazing, this has been so challenging .


----------



## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I am continuing to send good vibes your way. I am glad to hear that he is doing a bit better and that he slept on his dog bed. I know today will be difficult at work as your thoughts will be with your boy, but we are all here thinking of you and worrying right along with you--you are not alone!


----------



## jess4525 (Aug 27, 2009)

I've been following this thread...I'm so glad to hear that Carsten is improving. We're sending good thoughts to you guys for his continued healing!


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Continuing prayers for you and Carsten. It has to be tough going to work today.


----------



## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

I am praying for you and Carsten,too.


----------



## JessCowgirl88 (Mar 15, 2011)

I hope all goes well today and he does fine on the smaller doeses. I also hope you aquarium pump doesnt go out, you dont need any more stress thats for sure.

Still sending good thought and prayers for you both.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I can't say that enough. The prayer's are working as Carsten has not had another seizure. He is walking a lot better. Still miles to go to be 100% but there is significant progress. The stairs continue to be an issue for him but in part because I think he is getting a little anxious about them. Muscle memory of sliding down on his belly, maybe? He goes back UP on his dosage now to the 1 full pill 2 times daily now. In another week I will take him back to the vet for some more labs and a Phenobarb level. That should tell us how we will adjust the meds. I am trying like heck to relax about it and quit thinking every time that he twitches or yawns or looks at me funny that it is another seizure. Let me just say, I HATE this but I LOVE him. He has been a trooper, other then the whining, he is trying so hard. He is a mama's boy but he is a fighter also. 

I was so stressed at work today but it helps that I just got home and was greeted with the usual howl "hello" from both the boys. Carsten was in his kennel just howling away as he always does. Normal or usual, is so comforting to me right now.


----------



## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Yay Carsten for not having anymore seizures! Glad to hear he's doing a bit better! <3

Still staying in my thoughts and prayers you both are!


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Wonderful update! Still sending lots of positive energy to both of you.


----------



## jess4525 (Aug 27, 2009)

So happy to read this update!! He is lucky to have you taking care of him.


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

SO happy to see another positive update! Way to Fight, Carsten!! Continued prayers for you and your beautiful boy, Inga.  And thanks for being so great about updating...he is constantly on my mind!


----------



## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Inga said:


> Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I can't say that enough. The prayer's are working as Carsten has not had another seizure. He is walking a lot better. Still miles to go to be 100% but there is significant progress. The stairs continue to be an issue for him but in part because I think he is getting a little anxious about them. Muscle memory of sliding down on his belly, maybe? He goes back UP on his dosage now to the 1 full pill 2 times daily now. In another week I will take him back to the vet for some more labs and a Phenobarb level. That should tell us how we will adjust the meds. I am trying like heck to relax about it and quit thinking every time that he twitches or yawns or looks at me funny that it is another seizure. Let me just say, I HATE this but I LOVE him. He has been a trooper, other then the whining, he is trying so hard. He is a mama's boy but he is a fighter also.
> 
> I was so stressed at work today but it helps that I just got home and was greeted with the usual howl "hello" from both the boys. Carsten was in his kennel just howling away as he always does. Normal or usual, is so comforting to me right now.


Do talk to your vet about adding in Potassium Bromide, and once it is to a theraputic level (it takes longer) phasing out the PB. KBr isn't as bad for ataxia and doesn't effect the liver.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm glad he is doing better! Keep up the progress Carsten!


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I am glad for the good update!  Still saying prayers and keeping good thoughts.


----------



## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Glad to hear the good update. Sending prayers for a complete recovery.


----------



## JessCowgirl88 (Mar 15, 2011)

So happy to hear he hasnt had another seizure and is doing better. Always checking for updates and its lovely to see good ones. You are both still in my prayers and thoughts for a good 100% recovery. Sending good vibes, and atta boy carsten, keep it up!


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

My crew and I are all wishing you the very best. I am so sorry I didn't read this tread in a more timely manner.

Here's to a speedy, full, and lasting recovery.


----------



## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

YAY Carsten!!! 

Keep the updates coming! He's been in my thoughts everyday.


----------



## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm so happy to get back online and read your positive updates! <whew!> Brought a happy little tear to my eye. =)
I will continue to send good vibes (no more seizures!!) to you and your Carsten and check in for more info on his continuing improvement.

<high-five to Carsten!>


----------



## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Mdawn said:


> YAY Carsten!!!
> 
> Keep the updates coming! He's been in my thoughts everyday.


Couldn't have said it better myself! :whoo: :whoo:


----------



## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Any update on Carsten? 

That handsome man has been in my thoughts everyday, as well. Hoping for the best.


----------



## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

I'm hoping no news is good news...


----------



## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

Inga, I just wanted you to know I'm still praying for you and Carsten. I hope everything is going well.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

me too i always look fwd to my email updates on this thread in hope of hearing good news


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I have been checking here also ... hope everything is well.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Carsten was into the vet today again. Update is that he is remaining on the same meds for a little longer. He still whines a lot of the time and drives me nuts but I will deal with it in hopes it will eventually settle into it. His movement is much better though not 100% yet. He lost a few pounds which is concerning but I am keeping a close eye on it. His appetite is good so I will simply increase his intake a little. We also picked up another 2 week supply of meds and will be rechecking his blood work within a week and a half. Thank you all for your prayers, concern and understanding. So few people seem to understand why I would spend so much money on a dog when I have so many other needs. What they don't get is that he isn't just a dog, he is MY dog and I LOVE him. He is worth every cent and more. I feel blessed to have a place where people get it. Thank you all.


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> he is MY dog and I LOVE him.


and need him!!!!!


----------



## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm so glad your faith and effort in your boy is being rewarded  I hope he continues to hold steady and improve. Best of luck!


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Woke up this morning to more whining. He just whines so much, it drives me nuts. I don't yell at him but I want to. I am thinking today we are going to need to go work out some. Hopefully I can wear him out some and that might make him happy. I have been holding off of any play dates due to his imbalance but... It might be time for him to take on "Fuzz" who is my nephews little Aussie mix. She is only in the 20 something pound range but is a very aggressive player. I don't want him hurt either obviously. I just can't take much more of the stinking whining. I wonder if he even knows he is doing it so often. Sometimes he seems to be sleeping but I can hear him quietly whining. Ugh!


----------



## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Hope the play date goes well! (((HUGS))) to you and Carsten, keep us updated and take pictures of the playdate I love seeing the bigs and littles play together!


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm just getting caught up on this thread and I am so glad that Carsten is dong well.
Good Boy! Keep up the improvement.


----------



## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Any updates?


----------



## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry to learn about this. I hope he's much improved!

I was thinking, since there's neurological involvement, maybe the whining is involuntary. Even if he knows he's doing it, he might not be able to stop. I just thought I would throw that out there, because knowing might make it a bit easier to tolerate. If it's still happening, it sounds like a some good ear plugs and music would help, or a fan while you're sleeping. That white noise sound is good for drowning things out.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Well, Carsten had a play date with Fuzz on Thursday, It was a lovely day and it seemed like he was ready. He did play and seemed happy to see his friend but I noticed he would stop abruptly, come over by me, sit, and his front right leg would be shaking. He did it 4 times while playing inside. He had played outside for a good 10 minutes before that as they are too wild together. I am hopeful this is not a mini seizure but honestly, I can't imagine what that was. He doesn't seem sore on the leg at all and afterwards, he didn't do it again. Only when he was playing with Fuzz. Maybe excitement? I don't know but of course I have to worry about it, I wouldn't be me if I wasn't worried about him. 

Friday I worked all day and he was in his kennel. When I got home he was even more anxious then normal so I let him out (as I always do) and the dogs usually eat first but Carsten wanted to go out. I let him out and changed my shoes and went outside as well. Carsten had pooped a pile the size of a very large Cow pie. Same consistency. Then he went a few more feet and repeated the process. I was happy as heck that he made it outside but sad that he must have been suffering in his kennel. I honestly do not know how he could have had all that in him without literally blowing up. Carsten (and I) have been fighting with his loose stool issue for months. Heck, almost a year. He has it on and off, not all the time. It seemed it was induced by excitement like a nervous stomach but then he would on occasion get it at home too. It is random and weird. 

We have spent well over a thousand dollars at the vet doing various tests for that but still have no definitive answer on that. He has had multiple parasite tests all of which always come back negative. We have sent blood and stool out to labs with nothing definitive. He was on antibiotics for over a month straight, he was on steroids, Pepto bismol, Tylen powder, probiotics, Pumpkin, Yogurt, dietary changes and show stopper. None of which stopped it entirely. It would be better for awhile and then it would happen again. He is maintaining his weight but carries nothing extra really. I was concerned that this might be related but the vet thinks that the two things (stool and seizures) are entirely unrelated. I am just frustrated, obviously. I tend to grasp at anything that MIGHT give a clue but nothing seems to get us anywhere. I HATE not knowing what is going on with my boy. 

On the up side, he seems slightly happier but still gets anxious from time to time. Still whines more then PRE seizures. Hopefully after next weeks blood tests, we will learn something more to help.


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

I'd say overall that is a pretty good update. Glad to see he is not having "full blown" seizures and seems to be acting pretty happy. Sorry about the tummy issues--I know all of this must be frustrating and hope things just keep getting better and better from here. Hang in there...you're doing a fantastic job and Carsten is truly blessed to have you.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Glad to hear a good update!  I was just wondering about the bowel problem. Carsten reminds me of one of my Nieces. She had this same problem when it came to being in the public or at school as she had a phobia during her adolescence. It was diagnosed as IBS. It was controlled with medication. Could stress make Carsten do the same thing even though he is canine? You probably probably already went this route.


----------



## Jesco (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm happy to hear that Carsten has been doing better. 

I wonder though if Carsten has had his Thyroid levels checked? When my old dog first started having seizures she was misdiagnosed as being epileptic for about a year until we changed Vets and had her Thyroid checked. As it turned out she had Hypothyroidism and with the proper medication her seizures were under control for years. 

The reason I asked is that when researching about Hypothyroidism I remember seeing a huge list of the clinical signs of this disease. So I went back and looked and Gastrointestinal disorders (constipation / diarrhea / vomiting) is on there as a clinical sign of Hypothyroidism. So it's possible that his seizures and stool problem could be related...


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

kieep the updates coming Inga, i look fwd to hearing that Carsten is doing well, i always love to see the emails notes for this thread.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Jesco said:


> I'm happy to hear that Carsten has been doing better.
> 
> I wonder though if Carsten has had his Thyroid levels checked? When my old dog first started having seizures she was misdiagnosed as being epileptic for about a year until we changed Vets and had her Thyroid checked. As it turned out she had Hypothyroidism and with the proper medication her seizures were under control for years.
> 
> The reason I asked is that when researching about Hypothyroidism I remember seeing a huge list of the clinical signs of this disease. So I went back and looked and Gastrointestinal disorders (constipation / diarrhea / vomiting) is on there as a clinical sign of Hypothyroidism. So it's possible that his seizures and stool problem could be related...



It is funny you mention that as I have also thought that could be an issue. I personally have hyppthyroidism so why not my dog, right? lol I did ask the vet if he thought the two could be related but he said he didn't think in Carsten's case they were. I will double check on his thyroid levels though. Wouldn't that be something if it were? Both his mother, father, grandparents for several generations were checked for Thyroid but... that just lessens the chances, not takes it away completely. I just feel sorry for Carsten We have been fighting his bowel issues forever it seems. He was loose again today so... more pumpkin.


----------



## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Inga said:


> Both his mother, father, grandparents for several generations were checked for Thyroid but... that just lessens the chances, not takes it away completely.


I'm sorry if this was mentioned earlier in the thread and I missed it, but are there seizures in his family history anywhere?


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

No, Nothing on either side of the breeding stock. At least none reported.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I hope Carsten continues to improve!


----------



## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

Wow, I've been away for a while, so it was scary to see this! I'm so glad that he's improving! I'm keeping you guys in my thoughts and prayers, Inga!


----------



## RubyDog (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm new to this forum but I've been reading along this thread and I wanted you to know that my family and I are thinking of you and your poor pup. I hope the vet can figure out what the issue is and fix it. Best of luck!


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Keechak said:


> I hope Carsten continues to improve!



I think he actually misses Conformation Class and You Erin. I was tempted to bring him Monday night, drop him off and sneak out the door.  

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. Whatever this is, it stinks and I would never wish it on anyone. We get tested soon for his phenobarb levels. I feel horrid because I flat our forgot to give him his dose yesterday and thankfully there were no seizures. I am still hoping that it was just a toxin of some kind and that we will be able to ween off the meds and have him be normal. Though, I think I will live in fear that he could be around said, toxin again as I have no idea what it could have been. 

At work today I was working with a patient who's daughter was there. We started talking dogs because the daughter was a vet. I told her about the seizures and she said she had a dog that had major seizures like that from a spider bite. Wouldn't that be something? I don't know if any of you were around long enough to remember but Carsten had a HUGE reaction to a bee sting once too. The whole side of his face swelled up and his eye swelled shut. He had to be on ice packs and benedryl for that one too. I would rather it was something like that then epilepsy. Still strange that none of the other dogs in his pedigree for generations back had it. Wouldn't we be the lucky ones?   

We so appreciate all the well wishes and prayers through this nightmare.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Well Carsten had another play date today. This time it was with a 4 pound ShihTzu, Maltese puppy. The pup is a puppymill dog and was quite nervous at first so ran around him barking and growling. I put him in a down, stay and let the pup warm up to him. It didn't take long, he just stayed down and the pup bounced around him like a popcorn ball. I think he enjoyed it but he did whine a lot. I never know what all that whining means? He has done so much of it since the seizures. Wouldn't he be through the nervousness from the drug by now? Why is he so insecure? Tonight he is exhausted like he ran a marathon. He only spent a few hours at the house, and I certainly didn't let the pup accost him so... not sure why he was all whining and now so worn out. He mostly laid there and then we went for a very short walk which he also seemed to enjoy.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I think Carsten needs to play with Lark again.


----------



## osdbmom (Feb 15, 2011)

I wonder if he is so whiny bc he remembers how bad he felt when he started seizing, and doesnt know what caused it, so he's just scared. OR, maybe he DOES remember what he was doing when it started (just sitting there, or playing, whatever) and he associates it with the seizures/feeling bad.
Ive read about dogs who do that (not thinknig in the way that people do, but in a dog way of survival)....like maybe they slid on a hardwood floor, whacked their head or injured some other part and thereafter, they no longer go onto a hardwood floor, in order to protect themselves from a potential threat.
But imagine if you cant figure out what the threat is? How do you avoid it? You can't...so you'd probably just keep feeling very nervous, whiny, scared. 
Just a thought...IDK your dog.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I am glad to hear Carsten is up and running and having some good old fun times!  I believe osdbmom just may be on to something. It is early in the game for myself and Leeo .... but with his pheno ... he is a bit more needy and vocal .... actually a little more obsessed with things .... always having to be near me now and wanting to stare at me alll daaay lonnng. :/ I truly believe they are just scared .... since they are supposed to not be able to "reason" like humans. They may be expecting it to "come and get them" again!


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Keechak said:


> I think Carsten needs to play with Lark again.


He definitely does but she will likely run circles around him now. He misses you guys for sure.

asdbmom and Abbylynn. You could be right, who knows. Experts will tell you that dogs live in the NOW and they don't look back. They also tell you that dogs don't even remember things that happened in the past. I think they are wrong. We don't truly know what dogs feel or think but something is not right for this poor boy.


----------



## hast (Aug 17, 2011)

I think our animals have a much clearer understanding about much than we think. 

One of my horses passed away in an aneurism a week and a half ago. It was very clear that both my other horse and my dog knew he was gone. My other horse that usually screams bloody murder if he's take out of the pasture and left without his buddy was quiet and calm for a week ... He's still not calling, just started fence walking worriedly a week later, but he's done that all of his life when he's been left alone. My dog showed in many ways that she was clear that he was gone, then she clawed herself into the room when I a week later put an envelope with Breyer's tail on a table, to send it to have some jewelry made. I have NEVER seen her so anxious and ... wild ... to sniff something before. They knew.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Carsten just got back from having his blood drawn. I will find out his phenobarb levels on Monday. Now our new concern is the vomiting. I am feeding a bland diet and breaking his meals up to 5 times daily to keep something in his stomach but not so much at a time. It has been working, he went 2 days without being sick now. Hopefully it continues that way. He has lost another 3 lbs.


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Continued positive vibes for Carsten and you.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Glad to hear there has been improvement with the seizures. Maybe the nausea is only the side effect of the pheno ... as it is listed as one? Still .... good thoughts and prayers to all of you.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Thank You for the continued thoughts. I asked the vet about the sick stomach from the phenobarb and he didn't think so. He said he thinks it is more related to his digestive issues from before. Breaking up the meals into smaller amounts seems to help. Poor little boy.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Glad to here of the improvement. Hopefully it was a one time issue, spider bite, that'd be awesome. Well not really but you know what I mean, hopefully no future worries.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Spicy1_VV said:


> Glad to here of the improvement. Hopefully it was a one time issue, spider bite, that'd be awesome. Well not really but you know what I mean, hopefully no future worries.


 You have no idea how much I was hoping for just that very thing. The vet doesn't want me to chance going off Phenobarb for a very long time. He said that as serious as the seizures were and as close in time that they were, he didn't want to risk it. Also, it took Carsten a long time to be able to function at all with the meds so we don't want to start over. I should find out the pheno barb levels on Monday as he was drawn on Friday. I won't increase his meds regardless of the levels because he is doing fine (no seizures) and honestly, I would like to cut him back a little more.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Inga said:


> You have no idea how much I was hoping for just that very thing. The vet doesn't want me to chance going off Phenobarb for a very long time. He said that as serious as the seizures were and as close in time that they were, he didn't want to risk it. Also, it took Carsten a long time to be able to function at all with the meds so we don't want to start over. I should find out the pheno barb levels on Monday as he was drawn on Friday. I won't increase his meds regardless of the levels because he is doing fine (no seizures) and honestly, I would like to cut him back a little more.


I am also with you on the pheno thing. My dog seems so needy on the stuff and always hungry and whining. I am also going to ask the same thing at our next appointment... about a lower dose ... the liver damage worries me about this drug.

I am so glad Carsten is beginning to be close to normal though ... I understand the " changes " in the dogs personality now ... and it is and can be very frustrating.  It has to be a huge relief for you both.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Abbylynn said:


> I am also with you on the pheno thing. My dog seems so needy on the stuff and always hungry and whining. I am also going to ask the same thing at our next appointment... about a lower dose ... the liver damage worries me about this drug.
> 
> I am so glad Carsten is beginning to be close to normal though ... I understand the " changes " in the dogs personality now ... and it is and can be very frustrating.  It has to be a huge relief for you both.


Yes, that part is a relief but now I am back to fighting his digestive issues. After my last few rescue dogs costing me an arm and a leg and having to sit and watch them suffer through ill health I went to a breeder in hopes of getting a dog that would be healthier. Instead, I paid big bucks and got Carsten, who has constant chronic digestive issues, gas that kills people, and now Seizures. I love him, don't get me wrong, but can't I get a break? I love this breed, but for the first time in over 34 years of owning them, I am thinking about changing breeds. Years ago, BEFORE the insane over breeding, this was a healthy breed. Now... not so much.  I am just so frustrated.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I understand your frustration ... I do. I did a no-no and was blessed with these two little guys ... wouldn't trade them for the world ... but at 5 years of age ... they are falling apart. I also wanted a good well bred Doberman from a reputable breeder ... I honestly saved up 3 grand ... and I was scared off by all the health issues now. Instead I rescued Abbylynn who is a Dobe/Rott mix ... so far so good ... but only a year old? So who knows! 

I am having digestive issues and Leeo has always had horrible gas, vomiting issues and poops 100 times a day. Lol! His issue is a stomach tube that does not open properly. He is taking Reglan. Has this ever been used for Carsten? Or is it something all together different with his stomach itself? Reglan is also used in nausea and vomiting problems. It is a human drug as is the pheno and can be taken together. Just thought it may be worth mentioning.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Abbylynn said:


> I understand your frustration ... I do. I did a no-no and was blessed with these two little guys ... wouldn't trade them for the world ... but at 5 years of age ... they are falling apart. I also wanted a good well bred Doberman from a reputable breeder ... I honestly saved up 3 grand ... and I was scared off by all the health issues now. Instead I rescued Abbylynn who is a Dobe/Rott mix ... so far so good ... but only a year old? So who knows!
> 
> I am having digestive issues and Leeo has always had horrible gas, vomiting issues and poops 100 times a day. Lol! His issue is a stomach tube that does not open properly. He is taking Reglan. Has this ever been used for Carsten? Or is it something all together different with his stomach itself? Reglan is also used in nausea and vomiting problems. It is a human drug as is the pheno and can be taken together. Just thought it may be worth mentioning.


I am glad you mentioned that. It is something I will mention to the vet. I have thousands into testing and no actual answers. It comes and goes, it has been more "come" lately though. It used to be when we would go somewhere really exciting like the woods. Carsten LOVES to run in the woods and would get so wound up it would be a poop fest. He would run, have a normal BM. then run some more and do a quick squat and squirt over and over until finally he ran out. The first hour of hiking was running and spraying all over. I just knew to let him go far enough ahead, I didn't get shot with anything. Then the next day he would be normal so I chalked it up to an excited stomach. Now it seems other things are bothering him. I changed foods again and I think that was a mistake. I might be going back to the old food or trying something different all together. 
A Dobe, is my second choice.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

i also did a no no, whhen i bought Izzefrom a BYB working ranch breeder for $100. she turned out to have a spine abnormality & certian skin allergies to grains (tho im not sure if that has anything to do with her breeding or lack there of).


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I saw a Dobe walking past my house yesterday and thought... That might be my next dog. Poor Carsten, I won't let him be the blame of my leaving my most beloved breed. He is such a sweet boy, it just breaks my heart that he now has issues too. It isn't fair. 


Aileen, your mailbox is full.


----------



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Inga said:


> I saw a Dobe walking past my house yesterday and thought... That might be my next dog. Poor Carsten, I won't let him be the blame of my leaving my most beloved breed. He is such a sweet boy, it just breaks my heart that he now has issues too. It isn't fair.
> 
> 
> Aileen, your mailbox is full.



You are correct ... it isn't fair. It is horribly hard to watch our pets have to suffer.

Dobes have pretty many health concerns as well.  I have the best of both worlds in Abbylynn ... but she is just a pup. Scary what may lie ahead.

I was hoping to find Carsten as well as can be. Did you have a chance to ask about the reglan?


----------



## Jesco (Feb 10, 2012)

What about Addison's Disease? Admittedly I don't know that much about this disease but I remember that my Moira was tested for it when she started having digestive issues. I believe it can cause seizures as well.

I hope Carsten is continuing to improve.


----------



## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

How is Mr.Carsten doing?


----------



## aero4ever (Jan 18, 2007)

Inga said:


> Yes, that part is a relief but now I am back to fighting his digestive issues. After my last few rescue dogs costing me an arm and a leg and having to sit and watch them suffer through ill health I went to a breeder in hopes of getting a dog that would be healthier. Instead, I paid big bucks and got Carsten, who has constant chronic digestive issues, gas that kills people, and now Seizures. I love him, don't get me wrong, but can't I get a break? I love this breed, but for the first time in over 34 years of owning them, I am thinking about changing breeds. Years ago, BEFORE the insane over breeding, this was a healthy breed. Now... not so much.  I am just so frustrated.


I really believe that we are given the dogs that need us most and Carsten is lucky to have you. Had someone else gotten him they may not have given him the love, care, and patience you so unselfishly give him. Some people wouldn't, they'd take him back to the breeder, demand a refund and who knows what the breeder would do with a dog they couldn't sell. You're his guardian angel and I hope you find comfort in that when you're feeling particulary down about the situation.

I can certainly relate to you. Shiloh has seizures as well, the other day he had 3 in eight hours time. He's been on PB for about a year and a half and the vet just upped his dosage again. It scares me to think that what he needs to help him may hurt him in the long run. One of the hardest things is to be told they don't know what's causing them. 

Hang in there and stay strong. We're here for you. You and Carsten are in my thoughts & prayers.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

aero4ever said:


> I really believe that we are given the dogs that need us most and Carsten is lucky to have you. Had someone else gotten him they may not have given him the love, care, and patience you so unselfishly give him. Some people wouldn't, they'd take him back to the breeder, demand a refund and who knows what the breeder would do with a dog they couldn't sell. You're his guardian angel and I hope you find comfort in that when you're feeling particulary down about the situation.
> 
> I can certainly relate to you. Shiloh has seizures as well, the other day he had 3 in eight hours time. He's been on PB for about a year and a half and the vet just upped his dosage again. It scares me to think that what he needs to help him may hurt him in the long run. One of the hardest things is to be told they don't know what's causing them.
> 
> Hang in there and stay strong. We're here for you. You and Carsten are in my thoughts & prayers.


Ditto, we are always here, I always get excited when I see this topic in my email box, I al always anxious to see how Carsten is doing.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Well Carsten was supposed to be showing this weekend and instead he is laying here like a bump on a log next to me. I think he should have still showed since it gives him something to think about and he likes playing with Erin. He did have a play date with his friend Velma today which he seemed to enjoy. I also took him for a very very short walk which he also enjoyed. The weather here is spot on perfect today but... my neuropathy is really bothering me today so... I am sitting more then I would like. I hate that. I miss my walks. I used to walk 6-8 miles a day. Now I am lucky to go a block to the corner and back. I think that Carsten would be thrilled to go for a hike in the woods but I don't think I am able to do it. Not to mention where I take him there is a fast flowing creek that he loves to jump in. I would have heart failure if he did that now, for fear. He hasn't had another seizure since day one. At least, nothing like that first shot but... still afraid of him in the water. 

As I am typing this I am afraid I will jinx myself but... We have had 3 whole days of solid poops.   Who thought one could get so excited about that? ha ha I am trying Car on a food for sensitive stomach. or, I thought I was. I didn't start him on it yet but having 3 good days. Maybe it will go to 4 or 5 days? I hope so. Maybe we are turning a corner, is it too much to hope for? 

I wish I could afford to get a puppy for Carsten. Heck, I got a cat for Oliver why not a pup for Carsten? ha ha He needs a buddy to sleep next to and love on and play with. Oliver doesn't care to play that much and honestly, is slowing down a bit himself.


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

poor Carsten i truely hope that he is on the road to recovery


----------

