# Anything else?



## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

Hello!

I am going to be an owner of two German Shepherd puppies pretty soon and I am currently getting everything ready for them.

I want to be a German Shepherd breeder.

They will not be my first puppies, I've a bit of experience with dogs.

I made a list of things to have and be ready before I go buy the puppies, and my question is, is there anything else I need to do before getting the puppies?

The things I've done are:
Pick out a place for the pen.
Clean the area of the pen.
Get doghouses.
Get shampoo.
Get collars and leashes.
Get bowls.
Etc.

I'm almost ready to get the puppies, all I need to do now is get the pen, but I want to make sure that everything is ready before I go get them.

Oh yeah, another question I have is is there a license or anything, other than the dogs being full blooded, to be a breeder?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Hon. I'm sorry to tell you this, but I have a feeling you are going to be inundated with posts about NOT becoming a breeder..because it's obvious from your post (unless you've left a LOT of stuff out) that you have little or no experience in this department. So I'll start and keep it as nice as possible:

1/Where did you get the pups? Are they of champion parents? Does the breeder you got them from KNOW you are planning on breeding?
2/Were the pups parents/grandparents screened OFA hips and elbows and CRA eyes?
3/Are you planning on breeding these pups together? How closely related are they?
3/How long were you mentored by an established, responsible, experienced breeder of champion GSD's?
4/ Can you afford to breed dogs? Breeding COSTS money, it does NOT make money. 

That's all I have to say. There will be more. Brace yourself.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Two puppies are a massive amount of work. Have you made a schedule to see how you will fit in potty training and general care into your work/school schedule?

Do you have anyone to help you with this at home?

It sounds like you have the material needs pretty well met but it also sounds like you are leaping into something without the planning and knowledge needed.

Does the breeder you are getting the dogs from know that you plan to breed them? What do they have to say about you taking on two puppies at once? (Generally most good breeders will not allow this). If the breeder is NOT concerned about these two issues, than they are NOT a good breeder and any dogs from them should not be bred in the future.

How are your finances? Puppies are expensive, consider health insurance. And your finances should be really strong if you breed them, to cover a possible C-section, emergency vet care, and care for the puppies till they can be sold to responsible owners...

You say "go buy the puppies"-- does this imply going to a pet shop?

Local laws and regulations cover dog breeding, but the fact that you ask about it means you aren't ready to breed. Nothing wrong with making that a goal for the future but not by running out and getting two random puppies and mating them; that just ain't how a responsible breeder works.


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

Yes, I left some stuff out of that list because I got a lot of stuff ready for em.

My plan is to buy two full blooded AKC registered German shepherd puppies, wormed and shots taken. I never, ever planned to breed two random dogs.

About how they are related to one another, they probably won't be closely related at all. You see, I don't plan to breed two puppies from the same litter. My plan is to buy the male puppy from there and then buy the female puppy from somewhere else. 

I was debating after I get the puppies to take them to the vet and make sure everything is all right. I'll definately do that now. 

Please don't flame or insult me. I meant no harm in stating I wanted to be a breeder. I see users using the term, "backyard breeder", what is that?

I do have the money and time to take on two pups. I've planned and written down everything I've learned and know and what I've been told from fellow dog owners. I even have the feeding times and walking times planned out!

I made this thread to see if there was something I left out. I do know that pups are a big responsibility, I know, tust me. That's why I want to be sure.


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

Faith in 7 said:


> Yes, I left some stuff out of that list because I got a lot of stuff ready for em.
> 
> My plan is to buy two full blooded AKC registered German shepherd puppies, wormed and shots taken. I never, ever planned to breed two random dogs.
> 
> ...


There's a lot more to being a successful, responsible, reputable breeder than letting two pups of the same breed produce puppies.

I'd highly suggest reading through the forums about what an ethical breeder goes through... This post by RedeyreRottweilers is a good place to start. You can find other threads on responsible breeding practices by searching the forum or looking through the stickies at the top of each section.

A backyard breeder is a person that indiscriminately breeds dogs for money or to be "family pets/companion dogs". There's no health testing done (and by health testing, I don't mean yearly vet exams and vaccines). There's no titles in obedience, herding, tracking, conformation, etc to prove that the dogs' genes are worthy of being perpetuated. There's no guarantee on the type of puppies that will be produced. Sure, the BYB may love their dogs, but there is no thought whatsoever that goes into producing a well bred, well tempered litter other than putting a male & a female dog together and letting them go at it.

Breeding dogs is definitely not a decision to take lightly. How much do you know about GSDs as a whole? What are your finances like? Buying a puppy (or two) is the least of the expenses you're going to incur, especially if you plan on breeding. You'll need several thousand dollars put aside in the event your bitch needs a c-section, and lots of time to whelp a litter if mom rejects it. The pups will need to stay with their dam & littermates for at least 9-10 weeks, so you'll be financially responsible for veterinary bills (exams, deworming, vaccines, monthly preventatives, microchips) up until that point. And what if the whole litter gets sick? Can you afford to treat them? What if mom develops problems after whelping? Also, if a potential buyer cannot keep the dog you whelped five years down the road, are you willing to take it back? Will you sell your pups on a limited registration in order to keep other indiscriminate breeds from doing the same? Can you feed a sire, dam and a litter of pups a quality food? These are just a few things that popped off of my head... there's so much more to it. 

Please, please reconsider. Do some research on what type of dog you'd like to produce. Then go to local dog shows and speak to GSD owners/breeders there. Talk to them about mentoring you. Get on a waiting list for a puppy, then show that it's worth breeding (title it in conformation, working, etc). Make sure it has all health clearances done (Xeph can go more into detail about those). It will not happen overnight, or even in 5 years, maybe. But if you want to breed dogs ethically and responsibly, it will take a lot of time, money and patience.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Faith in 7 said:


> Yes, I left some stuff out of that list because I got a lot of stuff ready for em.
> 
> My plan is to buy two full blooded AKC registered German shepherd puppies, wormed and shots taken. I never, ever planned to breed two random dogs.
> 
> ...


I'd like to clarify this first; just because they are AKC registered does NOT mean they are good dogs to breed. It says nothing about their health or temperament, just that they are in fact, purebred dogs, which should not be the only concern for a breeder. 

If you had doubts about taking them to the vet, I think you should throw the whole idea of breeding out the window RIGHT now. Why wouldn't you take them to the vet? Do you know what health checks were done on the parents of both pups? Do you have links to the breeders by any chance so I can check them out of curiosity? What health testing do you plan on doing to your dogs before you breed them? How many litters are you planning on having? Do you have any experience raising puppies or GSDs for that matter?

I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions but I just want to make sure you know EXACTLY what you're getting into, since it doesn't exactly seem like it.


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## FaithFurMom09 (Oct 24, 2009)

i dont know much about the breeding issue, BUT you can throw your "schedule" out the window! Dogs are NOT like babies. They have their own schedules. What are you going to do if at 2pm you take the puppy out, it pees and doesnt poop til an hour later and it poops at the door because according to your schedule it wasnt time again? it happens. Are you aware you will need to get up at night too?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Yes, I left some stuff out of that list because I got a lot of stuff ready for em.

_Unfortunately, nothing that you left out changes the fact that you are not ready to breed dogs. Ready for a puppy? Probably. Two puppies? Unlikely but possible. Breeding them after they mature? Nope_

My plan is to buy two full blooded AKC registered German shepherd puppies, wormed and shots taken. I never, ever planned to breed two random dogs.

_But that basically is the definition of two random dogs. When you buy puppies, you have no idea of how they will turn out as adults. What are the chances that the male you buy will be the best mate for your bitch? Having complimentary personalities and confirmation, and both in perfect health and genetics._

About how they are related to one another, they probably won't be closely related at all. You see, I don't plan to breed two puppies from the same litter. My plan is to buy the male puppy from there and then buy the female puppy from somewhere else.
_If you haven't learned the lineage of your potential breeding dogs, then you shouldn't be breeding them. Without knowing history, you have no idea about genetic traits that could pop up in the off-spring. Let's say you go to two different breeders but don't ask any history, especially if they are in the same area, how do you know they didn't use the same male?_


I was debating after I get the puppies to take them to the vet and make sure everything is all right. I'll definately do that now.
_DEBATING????? Every reputable breeder AND shelter/rescue REQUIRES a vet visit within the first few days (anywhere from 2 to 7 days I've seen). Why in the world would you not take them to the vet?_

Please don't flame or insult me. I meant no harm in stating I wanted to be a breeder. I see users using the term, "backyard breeder", what is that?
_We do not intend to insult you, but its more like the immediate reaction is to try to stop a big mistake: like screaming at a new driver to take their foot off the gas before an accident. You seem to have the best of intentions but you are also coming across as very naive and you know what they say about good intentions (roads, paved, etc) _

I do have the money and time to take on two pups. I've planned and written down everything I've learned and know and what I've been told from fellow dog owners. I even have the feeding times and walking times planned out!
_Feeding and walking times can be planned, but are you available hourly to take the puppies outside for potty training? Or more than hourly because with 2, their body schedules aren't going to be the same. Can you take time off work/school to take them to the vet if one or both get sick? A friend's puppy got parvo and luckily survived but it wasn't cheap (like several months of rent not cheap)_


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

We don't want to flame you. We want you to get more information and think more about this whole process. The link to Redyres thread will be very helpful.

AKC registered means nothing when it comes to the QUALITY of the dogs. Nada. GSD's are known for a myriad of health issues (hips, elbows, eyes, temperament) and indiscriminate breeding is just not a good idea. Not only is it unfair to the potential purchasers of future puppies but it is unfair to the dogs themselves.

Aside from the breeding aspect, getting two puppies at one time is 90 percent of the time a very bad idea. The pups would have to be walked and trained separately to prevent serious training and behaviour issues popping up, the puppies bond to each other so strongly that leash reactivity, lack of focus on owner etc are real problems. There are also threads here on DF about this.

You are not informed enough to be making a decision this large that could affect so many. Please reconsider and go the "long route" by finding a good GSD breeder who shows and competes who may be willing to mentor you.


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## sagira (Nov 5, 2009)

As others have mentioned, to be a good breeder it takes an extraordinary amount of work and dedication. Please read the stickies at the top to determine what makes a responsible breeder, and definitely read Redyre's The Extra Litter thread. The whole thing. 

I'm not even close (and probably never will be) to knowing even 50% of what's required to be a good breeder, and I've read scores of books on dogs. 

Read books about breeding, read the top books about the history, health, conformation, temperament, genes and breeding of German Shepherds. Read about hip dysplasia and OFA or PennHip health clearances. If you're buying puppies, it's very possible the two are not compatible to breed in the end. You could, however, start with a breeding quality female (talk to your breeder, assuming you have researched her extensively and know her to be an ethical breeder as per the sticky, and you could always pay a stud fee (hundreds to more then a $1000) to get a quality stud to mate your female (if and only if she is of a suitable age to breed, well trained, conformation good enough, temperament as it should be for a GSD, a herding or conformation, extensively health tested, with results OFA Excellent or Good (nothing less).. And much more. After that, breeding your bitch no more than once every year (or once every two years), and no more than a total of four or so times. And much more. 

If you don't know what I'm talking about, please don't consider breeding until you've read up to the limited level of my knowledge. Then learn more. It's an excellent idea to get mentored by an experienced, reputable breeder.

Maybe somebody here can give you some samples of websites from great breeders and bad breeders so you can compare.


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

On the "General Dog Forum" there are stickies (posts at the top of the page) about breeding. You should probably read them. I'm not going to say anything else about the breeding issue, because I honestly wonder with the number of posts every week about this that you could have read (most of them also on the general dog forum - theres an ongoing thread titled "My mini daschund" I believe currently about breeding a pet.) if this is even for real.

However - correct me if I'm wrong - you've got "pens" and "cleared a space for them" and bought "doghouses". Are these pet dogs - that you want to breed, and seem to think are going to be of a quality to do so - going to be outside dogs that live in a pen? Or by pens did you mean indoor exercise pens and doghouses meant crates? 

Also, it's much harder to raise two puppies at once. Yes, they have each other to amuse one another, but that typically means they aren't half as concerned about listening to you, because they've got someone fun and exciting to get attention from, that doesn't make them have to listen. Not to mention, they rarely cooperate on the same schedule, so they may not want to eliminate, sleep, etc at the same times. If you're planning on getting the dogs from different people/places they also might have issues with each other, and if you're getting them at different times but both as puppies it's going to prevent EITHER of them from settling in and establishing a routine. Have you even thought about this?

Edit: Just noticed cracker already mentioned issues about having two puppies at the same time. Oh well, it's important enough to bear repeating.


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## Wladziu (Mar 4, 2010)

My animal science degree (Aggie Pride!) says the OP should stop listening to whomever she's trying to impress, before he/she gets taken to the cleaners. 

There's a difference between a shade-tree mechanic and some guy with a really nice set of wrenches. 




I read a lot about surgery. Wanna let me take our your gall bladder? Please?


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

Even though the tone is harsh, I just want to say thank all of you for this information. I've learned some things from this thread.

I also want to say that I am sorry. It seems that I've angered you guys.

So that's what a backyard breeder is? Then that means my neighbor who breeds Rottweilers is one. When he first got em, he just made sure they weren't from the same litter and bred em when they got older.

Yes, I am naive. But I'm learning. I really mean no harm, but growing up when I looked at examples of how to take care of dogs, that's what people did. They were what you called "backyard breeders."

Someone asked about the pen and everything. Well, someone asked about the pen and everything. They're gonna be outside dogs.


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

OP: Please do a quick web search on "outside dog" or "backyard dog" and read the information that you get. 

A brief summary is: Dogs are social. Dogs are companions. Unless your dog is a true working animal (a farm dog, a hunting dog in some cases, etc.) your dog is a PET and should be living inside with you. 

Add to it that: German Shepherds are one the breeds MOST in need of human companionship. They form a bond, typically with one person, and they feel it keenly when they have to be parted from them for extended periods of time. By putting your dogs outside you won;t even give them a chance to form that bond. They'll probably be bored, they'll probably be poorly trained (how much time do you actually spend outside? Are you going to sit and play with them outside for 3-6 hours a day? Take them off your property? Socialize them with other animals? Teach them how to act when someone walks by their fence? Keep them from nuisance barking? (Or do you not even have a fence and you're planning to keep them in a 8x6 pen or something similar?) Fail to do any of this with a German Shepherd and youre most likely going to wind up with an animal that is agressive, unhappy, and destructive. 
Not to mention, GSD's jump and climb, they're large dogs to begin with. It's not typicalyl hard for them to get out of an enclosure. And, of course, they could be stolen. 

I don't know when you grew up, but a lot has changed in the last 25 years, including how we view, spend time with, and care for our animals. If you don't have the time or resources in your life to have a real PET, not an animal that lives outside and pops out babies for you to make a few bucks on when it's convenient, then you probably don't need a dog at all, and you definitely don't need one GSD, let alone two.

Obviously there are exceptions, and some people are capable of making an outside animal work, so I'm not trying to look down on anyone. But it takes a LOT more effort, and your lack of information on what it means to breed a dog probably means there is alack of info on what it takes to really HAVE a dog - especially if you're basing both things on "what you saw around you" and your neighbors breeding rotts - which yes, are definitely backyard breeders.

Dogs are not rotisserie ovens - you can't just set it and forget it. For potty training, working on temperament and obediance, or anything else. It takes LOTS of time and effort.

Seriously, please look up facts about outside dogs. Try to learn more about German Shepherds too. Look up PROPER breeding. Animals that are bred, in addition to all the health testing required, ALSO require EXTENSIVE handling and temperament checking. They're usually shown. Conformation, obedience, etc. At least something that shows they're a good candidate to further their breed. I'm sure others can give you more info on breeding if you don;t want to look it up (or you could read the stickies) but really, I'm skeptical as to whether you are actually in a position or have a realistic expectation of OWNING a dog, let alone breeding one. 

This is not to be mean. And I am sorry if the tone comes off as harsh. I just don't think there is an excuse not to be educated on things that seem to me to be common sense, and things that have a LOT of info available if you want to educate yourself. 

I want you AND your dogs to be happy - something that probably won't happen if they turn out to be uncontrollable or hard to handle. If you're still set on getting a dog, particularly for an outside animal, after this, maybe you should look into some other breeds. Or, if what prohibits you from putting an animal in the house is the size and energy level of a GSD, maybe you could consider a smaller, more docile indoor dog.


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## sagira (Nov 5, 2009)

Not angry at all here, just trying to help 

My sincere hope is that if you're still genuinely interested in becoming a good breeder, you can get much advice and help finding a good breeder who can be your mentor and teach you all you need to know. Good luck and let us know how it progresses! Learning should take at least acyear or two, if done intensively. 

Wishing you all the best on your journey to becoming a Responsible, ethical and reputable breeder! We do need more of those


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

This is my last post here at this forum.

I tried to be as humble as I could, knowing there were members here that knew more than I did.

This is too harsh. I know about outiside dogs. Hell, I raised five outside dogs. 

I do appreciate the info I've learned, but the tone isn't just harsh, it's hostile. 

You guys make me out to be someone like Michael Vick.

I really did think that info wasn't the only thing I could find here, I expected to talk with fellow dog owners. But what I got was negative.

Bye you guys and God bless you.


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

Faith in 7 said:


> This is my last post here at this forum.
> 
> I tried to be as humble as I could, knowing there were members here that knew more than I did.
> 
> ...


I don't feel that any of the posts made on this thread have been anything but truthful and helpful. As I'm sure you understand, it's very difficult to convey emotion through typed words on the internet.

It's really in your best interest to stick around and keep reading. Listen to the advice you've been given. We're not bad guys in these parts... we just a large group of dog lovers that are trying to help.


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## Wladziu (Mar 4, 2010)

Since I'm probably the "hostile" one, allow me to explain.
I don't speak for anyone else. 

If I thought you were Micheal Vick's twin, I'd say so. 
I don't care if you're raising GSD's or pomeranians. 
I don't care that it's outside, inside, or on Mars.

Every breeder could be called a "backyard breeder", in my opinion. 
Some, however, are knowledgable, have done their homework, and are respected for it. 
Then, there are some that closely resemble puppy mills. 
That's what I *DO* care about. 

My neighbor ran a puppy mill when I was a kid. 
They babysat me for about a decade. 
I know the talk, seen the walk. It's about cutting corners. Especially on health care. 
These folks have mentioned common health concerns of the dogs your planning to breed... however, you haven't reciprocated with knowledge of your own in return (showing you either have none/very little, or you simply don't care). You haven't even asked what any of it means.

I'm concerned with your empathy toward general creature comfort. 
You've raised 5 outside dogs, but what does that mean?
Puppy mill owners raise hundreds of outside dogs, 5 at a time. No playtime, no care.... but, lots of "plans" and business speak. 
You were even debating vet care. Too expensive, perhaps? 
No toys on your big list. No treats. No care.... just bottom line. 


You walk like a duck.
You talk like a duck. 
No one's dumb enough to believe you're a chicken, because you're simply being humble.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

You could easily talk to us about whatever you wanted, but a topic like this often turns hostile, because 90% of the time the breeder does not know what they're doing, like you. You don't keep breeding dogs outside in your yard for their life. You keep them warm, happy, and clean, and spend a LOT of time with them, like you would any other dog. 

What you're wanting to do is become a backyard breeder, which is highly frowned upon, and is why you're getting such negative feedback. If you just decided that you'd not get the puppies and do a LOT more research, we'd all be a lot more willing to help you out and not be negative about the subject.

I'm positive you'd find nothing but help if you were just willing to listen and not go all gung-ho for this breeding thing.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

what you got was information. good information. and if you dont post...we cant talk about these things...this thread is dog lovers talking about dogs lol..

as for breeding..

a. you need a mentor. someone who is an experienced good breeder who can teach you about your breed. you need to know the history. you need to know what kind of temperment is appropriate. you need to understand your breed's conformation and why it is what it is. you need to know about bloodlines(this bloodline tends to produce good front assembly and temperment vs that one that has good angulation and head type but tends to produce flighty dogs..that sort of thing) bloodlines also give you an idea of genetic health of the animals...if you can trace a bloodline back multiple generations and find well built, long lived, healthy dogs with proper temperment in every generation...this is likely to be a good foundation for your own line..

b. you need a solid understanding of genetics, basic reproductive veterinary medicine, canine prenatal care, canine STDs...things like that.

c. you need a goal. you need to have the dog you want to produce in your mind. 

d. you need to get active with your breed. rescue, breed sports, showing. 

e. you need a good understanding of the legalities of dog ownership and how to make sure your puppies NEVER end up in a shelter.

f. you need finances. breeding dogs the right way costs a TON of money and you arent likely to break even when you sell the dogs.

and finally you need to understand that being a good breeder means doing it FOR THE DOGS. you want to help both preserve the breed and improve it. that is at the core of responsible breeding. 

and a healthy dose of some serious patience will do you well in the long run...because you may not get your hands on a breeding worthy dog for years. you may have to raise puppy after puppy only to discover a health problem or a temperment issue that calls for the dog to be altered.

to be a good breeder you give a big part of yourself up to the dogs.

good luck, take heed of what has been said and i hope you stick around. there is someone here..her name is Xeph and she can help you get started learning what you need to know about GSDs.


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## Wladziu (Mar 4, 2010)

Listen to that person above, OP.


This isn't a personal attack against you. It's just a common plan that fails miserably, far too often. 
You're intelligent enough to formulate a plan, and that's commendable. 
It's just a time-proven horrible plan. 

This is a trust issue. A prospective mill owner may come here asking the same questions. How is anyone to know for sure? 

On the other hand, if you're actually interested in the dogs... showing some interest toward the dogs themselves... when the plan fails, you just end up with a couple of pups to play with. No biggie. 

No one wants to say anything to push you toward disaster. Maybe they're afraid you'll do it, simply out of spite. I dunno... can't speak for them. 
You're kinda proving any negative suspicions by running away when you hear an opinion you don't like, though. They only care about the dogs, geesh!


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## Wladziu (Mar 4, 2010)

When you come back to read the responses (and you will):

I'm trying to sell my academic library. 
-Genetics (you can guesstimate litter potential, learn disease traits, etc)
-Husbandry
-Applied Nutrition and Feeding
-Toxicology
-Anatomy and Physiology
-Sanitation and Diseases
-Science of Animals that Serve Mankind
-Animal Breeding (Science of it, not too much on the temperment/personalities)

Dogs, chickens, cows, sheep, pigs, geese, rats, rabbits, etc. Every species that'll tolerate North American climate except caribou, ostrich, emu, bison, primates, and other exotics. 


They're pretty recent, but some of them are international copies (black and white pictures). 
I've even got a few on basic business law, ethics, and written communication. 
Just send me a PM. 

But, it's my opinion that you'd rather just buy a few dogs, have them hump, and just sell the offspring like meat cattle.


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

I know I stated that was my last post, but I see that there are some members here that are really good people and doggie owners.

I'm back. 

I haven't got the dogs yet, all I have is plans and stuff. This is a good oppurtunity to learn and see what's missing from the plans.

Here's the list of stuff I've gotten ready for the puppies:
Two Large Dog houses (which should arrive today)
Four fetch balls or doggie tennis balls.
A bunch of raw hide beef flavored bones for chewing on.
Doggie treats (beef flavored)
Two puppy collars and two 6 foot long leashes. (I know I'll need to get bigger collars when they get bigger)
Flea and tick shampoo
Dog food (Purina puppy chow that promotes strong teeth)

If you guys gimme a moment, I can find the list and see if that's everything.

I plan to get the pen last, right before getting the puppies.

I'll post more of my plans if you gimme some time. I'm on campus right now and class is about to start. So if you want to know more, just gimme an hour.


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

...And the point remains:

What is your plan for actually caring for these dogs? When will you be outside training them? Walking them? Working with them? What will you do when they bark and scream all night outdoors and your neighbors get angry? What size is this "pen" that they are going to be living in? Will they have time outside of the pen, other than walks? What will you do on days with nasty weather when YOU don't feel like going outside to deal with them?

How realistic is this for you, assuming that you are a student, and possibly work also? 

Do you even care that people are telling you its unwise to get two puppies at once?

Whats your living environment? Why can't the dogs be inside?

These are the sort of things that make people worry about how prepared you are to have a puppy - let alone breed one. This is why the posts sound harsh. You seem to be willing to ignore all the other advice that isn't directly "hey what do I need for my puppies" - and as the same time as you are asking basics about whether or not you've gotten enough or the right supplies, you're talking about how you want to breed the animals. 

Also "I've raised 5 outside dogs" means nothing. What did raising them involve? If you can show what you did and how you;re prepared to do so, maybe it wouldn't be as upsetting. But most people who "raise outside dogs" keep them outside, and (usually) make sure they have food and water, and aren't too annoying. That's not most people heres definition of "raising dogs".


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Purina puppy chows sucks for GSDs, just so you know. You'll need to do some research on better foods, becauset that will inevitably give your pups huge growth spurts and they will end up with bad joints and bones, which would make them not breedable.

I'm interested to see what else you have and are getting.

Do you have a trainer picked out that you're going to use? I'm not trying to sound rude, but you don't seem to have much experience with GSDs or puppies so I'm assuming you won't be able to take on the training tasks by yourself with TWO of them. 

Is it assumed that you're going to hold off on all breeding ideas then?


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

Jax said:


> ...And the point remains:
> 
> What is your plan for actually caring for these dogs? When will you be outside training them? Walking them? Working with them? What will you do when they bark and scream all night outdoors and your neighbors get angry? What size is this "pen" that they are going to be living in? Will they have time outside of the pen, other than walks? What will you do on days with nasty weather when YOU don't feel like going outside to deal with them?
> 
> ...


Gimme some time and I'll post that! It's like you're not even giving me a chance. You jump down my throat because you think I'm not reading and absorbing others' advice, so shouldn't I jump down your throat for not reading it when I said I was gonna post my plans after class? But you know what, I'm not gonna do that. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes, I am reading and absorbing the information. I'm strongly considering getting one dog, but I also know that it is possible to raise two at a time. I know someone who is in college and doing it.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I think he posted that because you didn't really acknowlege the fact that other people posted things related the the breeding and raising of your dogs. I don't think he realized that was included in your plan or that you didn't have the time to post it right now. 

I'm interested in seeing how this goes, i'd like you to post the rest when you get a chance.


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

As for answering YOUR quesitons directly:

* I haven't got the dogs yet, all I have is plans and stuff. This is a good oppurtunity to learn and see what's missing from the plans.

Here's the list of stuff I've gotten ready for the puppies:

Two Large Dog houses (which should arrive today) *
^I'm still waiting to hear why the dogs are living outside. So, I'm skipping this one

*Four fetch balls or doggie tennis balls.*
8-10 week old puppies don't instinctively know how to play fetch with tennis balls. They probably wont be able to even get a good grip on a tennis ball. You have to TRAIN them to chase and bring the toy back, and to drop it. Otherwise, theyre just going to chew on them, chase them around a bit, and then chew on them some more. This is an interactive toy only. Since they're going to be "outside dogs" that's pretty useless except for the periods of time you have to be out with them (which I'm assuming you're going to tell us your plan for that, as well)
*
A bunch of raw hide beef flavored bones for chewing on.*
^ While I am not completely anti raw hide (and many here are) it is COMPLETELY irresponsible to leave your unattended dog with rawhide to chew on. They can choke. Easilly. They can bite of huge chunks and get blockages. GSD's have strong jaws and teeth, even as puppies with milk teeth. This is completely inappropriate for an "outside dog" that you aren't supervising to chew on. Also, the beef flavoring, not to mention the rawhide itself, is likely to make a small puppy ill. You need to look into toys that can be chewed on in crate, unsupervised. A lot of people recommend nylabones and kongs, though these are not totally without risk either.

*Doggie treats (beef flavored)*
^One kid of doggy treats? Beef FLAVOR? does that mean they are a completely fake, sugar filled, flavor added treat that is likely to make your young pup even MORE hyper than it's already going to be? You need to actually resource QUALITY treats, and then ALSO expect that your pet is going to have different preferences, and you're going to have to figure them out.

*Two puppy collars and two 6 foot long leashes. (I know I'll need to get bigger 
collars when they get bigger)*
^ Are you aware of the dangers or leaving TWO playful dogs in a pen (assumedly metal) with collars on? The dogs, who will probably be bored, are likely to play tug with each other. The collars are a GREAT thing to go for, and they can choke each other to death. Then again, it's unwise to leave your outdoor dog without a collar and tags, as it can easilly get out. See the problem with TWO puppies and with outdoor animals?

*Flea and tick shampoo*
^ If your dogs have had VET CARE and are on a vet prescribed flea/tick medication, they shouldn't need this. GSD's are notorious for dry skin and skin problems, so you need a mousturizing shampoo/conditioner, and if you're not familliar with properly bathing around the eyes, one that is a "no tears" formula. Not a chemical filled flea killer.

*Dog food (Purina puppy chow that promotes strong teeth*
^As already stated, this food will make your GSD's shoot up way too fast and stress their joints. It's also full of sugar, chemicals, and filler, which I think are unwise for a puppy, ESPECIALLY a high energy one like a GSD (also, like I said, they are prone to skin allergies, which this food will likely exacerbate.

Edit: And you're right DJetzel, I wasn't expecting an immediate response, I just didn't realize that these things were already "part of the plan" on the OP's part, so I'll wait for their reply now. It was also an explanation of why people may seem upset/harsh, because there are serious concerns about the situation here. 

I also assumed that the OP had put breeding plans on hold for the moment, which is why I haven't re-raised that issue at all.

I posted now because this is when *I* had time to reply.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Faith in 7 said:


> Gimme some time and I'll post that! It's like you're not even giving me a chance. You jump down my throat because you think I'm not reading and absorbing others' advice, so shouldn't I jump down your throat for not reading it when I said I was gonna post my plans after class? But you know what, I'm not gonna do that. Two wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> Yes, I am reading and absorbing the information. I'm strongly considering getting one dog, but I also know that it is possible to raise two at a time. I know someone who is in college and doing it.


no one is expecting you to reply right away. its a forum lol, not a chatroom. 

try to take what you can from the infor.

if you want to breed id suggest just one dog and id suggest looking for a female. and id suggest having her in the house because if you are planning to breed her, you cant fix her. which means sooner or later she will go into heat. and that will attract males who will try to bust into your fence to mate with her. you either need to have her in the house, acclimated to being in the house or have your house set up like Alcatraz...no pooch gets in or out of your property. period. 

where are you getting these puppies from?


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## ShutterBug (Jan 21, 2010)

I can't add anything in regards to the breeding issue that everyone else hasn't said much better and with much more knowledge than I could.

What I can say, just from my time spent here so far, is that the people on this forum are passionate about dogs. Not just their own dogs, but all dogs. They love them and care for their well-being. 

What you're taking as hostility is nothing more than passion and caring. It reads as hostility to you, because they're saying things you don't want to hear. It always sucks to hear that what you thought was a great, well thought out plan is considered by many to be irresponsible. But that's what's great about the people. They're passionate, and they're honest. They're not going to coddle you.

If you're serious about wanting to become a responsible breeder, you'll get lots of excellent advice here. If you're looking for people to affirm your decision to breed as you've laid it out so far, you're probably just going to end up frustrated and disappointed.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> no one is expecting you to reply right away. its a forum lol, not a chatroom.
> 
> try to take what you can from the infor.
> 
> ...


I'd also like to know where they are coming from and would also like to agree on the fact that I recommend getting only one dog as well (also suggest female) that way it is 

1. easier to accomodate
2. cheaper than two puppies
3. less stressfull and easier to train
4. MUCH easier to find a male that is compatible with her personality, etc if you do decide to breed, instead of raising two that might not be good for each other and waste the time and money on the other.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I have a most critical question, which I think hasn't been asked yet.

Why do you want to breed German Shepherds?


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## Wladziu (Mar 4, 2010)

Faith in 7 said:


> I'm strongly considering getting one dog, but I also know that it is possible to raise two at a time. I know someone who is in college and doing it.



There is a way to breed, using only one dog.

Of course, when you have two dogs... you can do whatever you want to them. You don't need anyone else's permission, don't have to live up to anyone's standards. Don't have to slap down big bucks on semen, either.
And, if you have enough room to keep two GSD's outside... those wacky neighbors aren't much of a concern while you're in school. 

4x8 chainlink pens make for a pretty loud pair of dogs, even with rawhide and bones. 
Are you installing a run? 


Which climate zone are you in, as an aside? 
Any accommodations for shade?
Automatic watering while you're at school, or just a large dish?
Heat source inside the houses, or some old blankets?
Are you budgeting grooming?
Flea/tick/pest control?
Concrete flooring or bare earth? 
If earth, how far below the topsoil are you burying fence?

What about waste management? 
Gonna clean it yourself, or pay a guy? 
Gonna throw it in the woods, bury it, build a septic system, or just wash it off with a hose?

Pen area rotation to prevent mud and dust, or just pine straw that molds and rots?
Gravel that's difficult to clean up?
Sealed concrete that won't develop urea buildup and mold? Pretty pricey...


Just throwing that stuff out there. 
I'm gonna leave you alone, now.


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay I'm back.

I'd love to have the dogs live inside with us, but unfortunately the owner of the house, my father, absolutely refuses to let any animal live in the house with us. He's a firm believer in having pets outside.

As for the tennis balls, yes, I will use those to play fetch with her or them. Most likely one, her. I'm going to teach her how to fetch.

As for the rawhides, I've never heard of a puppy chocking on them before. Never. They're so big and tough, it's like rock.

The doggy treats are made of beef. When I get home, I'll see if it's artificial. I don't think it is.

The flea and tick shampoo is made of natural stuff, but when I get home, I'll investiage more about it.

So, Purina puppy chow is bad because it makes them shoot up and stresses their joints? Is there anything positive Purina puppy chow could do for a GSD? Anything else negative?

Now, for the plans.

Walking: 
3 times a day. Once in the morning, once in the afternoon, and once at twilight. Just like my friend does her pit bull mix and husky mix.

Feeding and water:
feed them 3 times a day as puppies in the appropriate amount. I will also make sure they have access to water. 

Playing and training them:
Of course I plan to play with them! Playing as in fetch and etc. As for training, I plan to start out with simple and basic commands then move up and up. 

Health:
That same friend with the two dogs told me to take them to the vet twice for checkups and as needed. I plan to brush them twice a day. I plan to make sure they eat the right foods and etc. I plan to also make sure their claws don't exceed a certain length. And no, I'm not going to use a giant nail clipper.


Here's my plan:
Buy the things needed for the puppy, so that when I get them, everything will be ready.
Buy the puppy from a responsible and good breeder. 
Train her. Teach her discipline, but also show love. I want them to not only be disciplined, but know that I love her. I want her or them to be happy and healthy.

It is undecided whether I will get one or two, but I'm leaning toward one now.

Yeah, there are some things I don't know, and according to you guys, the things I know are wrong or I don't know enough.

I really love dogs, I really do. 

I'll do some more research and read more topics on this.

Anything else, pm me.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Two dogs is three times the work. Two puppies is...outrageous. Truly. Perhaps you could explain to us why you want two dogs and we would offer alternatives that would be more beneficial to you.

Rawhide tends to expand when moist, thereby running the risk of becoming a blockage in the digestive tract. Purina (puppy chow or otherwise) relies heavily on grain fillers and unpronouncable preservatives. Aside from filling a dog's belly, I can't think of anything particularly positive that it does.

Having said that, I think your plan for owning a single German Shepherd puppy sounds totally doable.

Two questions: Where will this dog come from and when will you have it neutered or spayed?


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> Two dogs is three times the work. Two puppies is...outrageous. Truly. Perhaps you could explain to us why you want two dogs and we would offer alternatives that would be more beneficial to you.
> 
> Rawhide tends to expand when moist, thereby running the risk of becoming a blockage in the digestive tract. Purina (puppy chow or otherwise) relies heavily on grain fillers and unpronouncable preservatives. Aside from filling a dog's belly, I can't think of anything particularly positive that it does.
> 
> ...


Can you be more specific? Like are you asking what state they're coming from or what breeder they are coming from?

Now, since I'm leaning toward one, I don't know. I need some time to think about that.

The main reason I wanted two is because of the breeding idea and you guys already told me about that.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Where are you going to get the dog? Pet store? Animal shelter? Private rescue? Breeder? (Which breeder?)

Where were you going to get the puppies when you were planning on getting two? Why can you not get one from the same place?


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> Where are you going to get the dog? Pet store? Animal shelter? Private rescue? Breeder? (Which breeder?)
> 
> Where were you going to get the puppies when you were planning on getting two? Why can you not get one from the same place?


Breeder. I was gonna get the male from one breeder and the female from another breeder.

Why i was gonna get em from different places because 1) I didn't want them from the same litter and 2) Didn't want them from the same area because they could be too closely related.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Faith in 7 said:


> Breeder. I was gonna get the male from one breeder and the female from another breeder.
> 
> Why i was gonna get em from different places because 1) I didn't want them from the same litter and 2) Didn't want them from the same area because they could be too closely related.


you wont know if they are closely related just by location and breeder. you need to know the extended bloodline.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Have you asked yourself if this is the right time for you to get a dog? It sounds like you are in college and living with your parents. If you are anything like me, you will be very busy over the next few years. Finding jobs, apartments, husbands can be very time-consuming and destabilizing. I got a dog after I got a 4 year degree and moving with my dog was very, very hard. We lived in 4 rentals together and I paid an extra $1,000 deposit each time just to convince the landlord that I wasn't going to let my dog trash their place. The fact that my dog was a geriatric chocolate lab that was fully house-trained made this much easier.

There's no meanness or attitude in my question and you don't have to answer. I would just suggest thinking about it for yourself and your dog.


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

The dog and I have errands, so while I can't address everything I wanted to respond with at this point, I did just want to say:

I understand that you really, really want a puppy. I can totaly understand why, because dogs are great. Here's the thing though.

Your parents, who you live with, don't seem particularly supportive and won't allow the dog inside. You're in a transitionary period of your life - you're in college. What are you going to do when you graduate? Is there any possibility that you're going to move? What's going to happen if you can't take the dogs? For that matter, what's going to happen NOW if something comes up and you can't care for them (or it)? It doesn't sound like your parents will be up to it. A lot of apartments/condos/housing communities don't allow dogs. A lot of ones that DO allow dogs have flat bans on German Shepherds, huskies, malamutes, spitz, bully breeds, etc. They don't make exceptions, even if yours is really nice. We learned that the hard way. Wouldn't it be better to wait on a dog until you're a little more sure about how your life is going to go? 

In the same vein, do you have a financial plan for how to care for the animal? What if it gets sick? Vet care bills can quickly run into the mid-high thousands. Can you pay for that? Can your parents? Will they?

I'm concerned that you still haven't said how big this pen is and how much time your dogs will be getting outside of it to run around and play. NOT just walking on a leash. That's rarely good enough for a GSD. Or what you're going to do when the weather is bad. Or hot. Or cold. It's not fun to hand out outside with a dog for a couple hours in below freezing or 100 degree whether. Also, quite a few GSD's have seperation anxiety issues. How are you going to teach the dog not to bark when you're in class, or when you leave it to go inside at night? 

If you're set on getting a dog and won't be persuaded, please consider a different breed, for the reasons listed above. I really think it would be best for you to wait until your life is more stable and in a better position to have a dog, since your parents DON'T seem to want any part of it, and you (I assume) don't know what you'll be doing after school. No one's trying to be overly critical - but we DO want whats best for you both.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Faith in 7 said:


> Breeder. I was gonna get the male from one breeder and the female from another breeder.
> 
> Why i was gonna get em from different places because 1) I didn't want them from the same litter and 2) Didn't want them from the same area because they could be too closely related.


Geographic area has nothing to do with genetics. For example, I live in California and my sister lives in New Mexico. We're still "from the same litter."

I think you misunderstood my question. I assume you researched your prospective breeders when you thought you wanted two dogs. Why not go ahead and use one of those breeders now that you want one dog?

What breeders are you considering?


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## ShutterBug (Jan 21, 2010)

Faith in 7, when you say this: 


> Health:
> That same friend with the two dogs told me to take them to the vet twice for checkups and as needed.


that's not what everyone here means when they ask you if you've looked into the necessary health testing if you're planning on breeding. I'm sure someone can let you know the specifics when it comes to the breed you're looking at, but they mean having specific tests done on the dog to make sure it doesn't have any genetic health problems. The breeder you get the puppy from should also be able to produce proof that the puppy's parents are also free of those genetic health problems. 


I also have to ask, if your father will not allow any animals to live inside the house, what are you planning on doing with any puppies that result from the breeding for the 8+ weeks they'll be with you until they can go to their new homes? Surely you're not planning on keeping a litter of newborn puppies outside 24/7? (Right? Please?)

edit, sorry for the disjoint, I took too long and several people replied before I could post LOL


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

ShutterBug, the OP has said more than once she's leaning towards getting a single dog and hasn't mentioned breeding in her last several posts. I would like to think she is learning something from us. I am hoping that, by continuing to ask her questions, she will begin to think more deeply about her plans for her dog.


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

I've thought it over. I've made the calculations and I'm sure I want and can handle a dog. My mother says a dog would be good for me.

Jax, everyone around me are supportive of me getting a dog except my father. He's just a grouchy old man.

I'm listening or reading what you guys are saying. I'm just taking my time answering the questions.

As for the climate I live in, it's mild. It never gets real cold or super hot.

I gotta go. I'll get back online later.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

No one is questioning your ability to handle a dog. Two, perhaps, but it sounds like maybe you agree two isn't a great idea, anyway. We're just interested in hearing more about your puppy and your plans. We like dogs, so we like to know these things! What breeders did you say you were considering?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

FilleBelle said:


> No one is questioning your ability to handle a dog. Two, perhaps, but it sounds like maybe you agree two isn't a great idea, anyway. We're just interested in hearing more about your puppy and your plans. We like dogs, so we like to know these things! What breeders did you say you were considering?


I've been talking to her in a pm and she found breeders in a trade winds ad. prices between 200-500. I advised most breeders wouldn't post ads like this and quality breeding pups would cost a lot more, but a family pet could easily be great one at that price. I also let her know that if she asked here or on a german shepherd specific forum that she could get some very good recommendations for quality reputable breeders in her area.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Oh, very nice. Good work, DJEtzel


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

DJEtzel said:


> I've been talking to her in a pm and she found breeders in a trade winds ad. prices between 200-500. I advised most breeders wouldn't post ads like this and quality breeding pups would cost a lot more, but a family pet could easily be great one at that price. I also let her know that if she asked here or on a german shepherd specific forum that she could get some very good recommendations for quality reputable breeders in her area.


But then there's the likelihood that no reputable breeder is going to sell a pup to an inexperienced, young owner who intends to keep the dog penned up outside. 

Sure do wish we could talk the OP into waiting until s/he is much more stable in life.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

FilleBelle said:


> Oh, very nice. Good work, DJEtzel


I do what I can.  haha.



MonicaBH said:


> But then there's the likelihood that no reputable breeder is going to sell a pup to an inexperienced, young owner who intends to keep the dog penned up outside.
> 
> Sure do wish we could talk the OP into waiting until s/he is much more stable in life.


I'm also trying to talk to her about her living situation and ideas on being able to allow the dog inside (crated when she's not there, kept in her room otherwise, brushed frequently)

At least if she can't get one from a reputable breeder she'll be less likely to breed and will keep a pet only until she's ready financially and structurally to breed.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

Faith in 7, you won't be able to become a Rep breeder. A BYB, sure...but anyone can do that.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

emily445455 said:


> Faith in 7, you won't be able to become a Rep breeder. A BYB, sure...but anyone can do that.


I disagree. If she takes everyone's advice and actually researches breeding I think she and anyone could become a responsible breeder. They just have to want to do it.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

DJEtzel said:


> I disagree. If she takes everyone's advice and actually researches breeding I think she and anyone could become a responsible breeder. They just have to want to do it.


I meant if she bought and bred the pups she talked about in her OP


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Ok I know I'm coming in late on this one but Personally I think the whole point is moot as she'll likely have to buy from a BYB simply because she's a minor and you have to be a legal adult (18 or older) to sign a legally binding contract which any reputable breeder will request and to me it doesn't sound like she has the family support to have one of her parents do that for her. 

As far as commenting on the rest of the issues... well... I'm just gonna bite my tongue.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Ok I know I'm coming in late on this one but Personally I think the whole point is moot as she'll likely have to buy from a BYB simply because she's a minor and you have to be a legal adult (18 or older) to sign a legally binding contract which any reputable breeder will request and to me it doesn't sound like she has the family support to have one of her parents do that for her.


not necessarily if she finds the right mentor and proves herself to them. if she does that, she may not have to buy a dog at all...oftentimes when you show your mentor that you have the knowledge and the right attitude and are in the right situation..they'll give you a puppy to show and compete with..one that they select as potential good breeding material. if you and the pup prove yourselves by finishing the dog to the mentor's standards...they then help you select and obtain the services of a stud.

bUUUTTttt.....somehow i doubt thats going to happen


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> not necessarily if she finds the right mentor and proves herself to them. if she does that, she may not have to buy a dog at all...oftentimes when you show your mentor that you have the knowledge and the right attitude and are in the right situation..they'll give you a puppy to show and compete with..one that they select as potential good breeding material. if you and the pup prove yourselves by finishing the dog to the mentor's standards...they then help you select and obtain the services of a stud.
> 
> bUUUTTttt.....somehow i doubt thats going to happen


Well yes that _COULD_ be a situation IF the op were truly interested in doing this the right way, for example, showing a dog thru 4-H (which they do junior handler programs), getting on with a mentor, knowing that health testing is more than just having shots and being wormed... I mean all the stuff I basically bit my tongue on that you and the others have pointed out. Like you said tho I honestly wish this were a mentor to handler/breeder situation but we both know it really isn't goin gto go that way... unfortunately for the dog.


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## BorderGal (Nov 29, 2008)

OMG...!!!!!
I WANT to become a breeder!
The puppies PROBABLY won't be from the same parents!
My mother says it will be good for me!
My father won't allow dogs in the house!

Along with everything else, what is wrong with this picture???????


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## Jastya (May 16, 2010)

Faith in 7 said:


> As for the climate I live in, it's mild. It never gets real cold or super hot.


The only thing i have to comment on here is that unless you live in southern California on the coast, you have snow, or you have 100+ heat. Even Miami gets snow, and even Michigan gets crazy summer heat. So if your dad won't let you have the dog inside, imagine what that poor pooch is going to go through.


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## Faith in 7 (Mar 4, 2010)

I thank the members here who gave me advice and tips without flaming me, insulting me, and judging my character by just a few posts, without meeting me.

Since all of this has happened, I have learned a lot about dogs. I learned about dog food, dog breeding: researching the bloodline of the potential dam and sire, whelping, and etc, dog grooming and more. 

I also made a mistake and I think I made up for it. I brought a puppy home, BUT, she is no longer mine. I had a change of heart and basically gave her away and her stuff away to a better suited owner. I did it for her, and even though people kept complimenting and even asking me advice on how well a job I was doing, I loved her so much that I realized she was so lonely. College takes up so much of my time and work as well. I don't know if you guys will understand this, but I placed her in a home in which I believe every aspect of her life will be happy. 

Something will be done about the members who flamed and insulted me. Something official and I'm working on it. I still don't understand the unnessary cruelty, but the important thing is I try my best to make sure they don't do it to another person, that they don't put that person through what they put me through.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

and what may i ask did they put you through? everyone spoke the truth, some a little less nicely than others. it's kind of a moot point when you proved everyone right by getting and rehoming a dog within 2 months. i just hope you learned a valuable lesson in all of this.


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## FridaysMom (May 9, 2010)

Seriously?! ROFLMAO!!

I could have sworn from reading your posts that you had to be 13, not in college! I just sat here and read every single post, and not a single one was out of line. I am just thankful that this means there will be one less BYB in the wolrd!


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

FilleBelle said:


> I have a most critical question, which I think hasn't been asked yet.
> 
> Why do you want to breed German Shepherds?


That would be my question also...I am to irritated to comment further.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Faith in 7 said:


> I thank the members here who gave me advice and tips without flaming me, insulting me, and judging my character by just a few posts, without meeting me.
> 
> Since all of this has happened, I have learned a lot about dogs. I learned about dog food, dog breeding: researching the bloodline of the potential dam and sire, whelping, and etc, dog grooming and more.
> 
> ...


You've got to be kidding...You were flamed & insulted?...I saw nothing but the truth in this thread...You might consider developing a little thicker skin.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Faith in 7 said:


> Something will be done about the members who flamed and insulted me. Something official and I'm working on it. I still don't understand the unnessary cruelty, but the important thing is I try my best to make sure they don't do it to another person, that they don't put that person through what they put me through.


I've read every word of this thread. Some responses were more diplomatic than others, but none were cruel.

If they were, it would have been an excellent idea to report them two months ago instead of PMing the moderators today.

Your participation here is voluntary. You ask for advice and, if you don't like the answers you get, you ignore them (though at your own risk, since the advice was mostly good, in this case.)

I just spent 45 minutes, at 4 a.m., reviewing this "situation" and now* I'm* a grumpy old man.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

RonE said:


> I've read every word of this thread. Some responses were more diplomatic than others, but none were cruel.
> 
> If they were, it would have been an excellent idea to report them two months ago instead of PMing the moderators today.
> 
> ...


_Now_? You mean to tell me you weren't before?


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

It's all relative. After reading this thread, and another parallel one, I'm a little grumpier and a little older.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

RonE said:


> It's all relative. After reading this thread, and another parallel one, I'm a little grumpier and a little older.


Don't say you are old, say that you are like a good bourbon.... aged to perfection


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Shell said:


> Don't say you are old, say that you are like a good bourbon.... aged to perfection


Thanks, but I think somebody left the cap off the bottle.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

To the OP, honestly? If you were planning on breeding GSD's, with no idea of health clearances on things like hips, elbows, eyes and so on, you'd better get a thick skin. You'd have to deal with the puppy buyers who come to you in tears because their baby can't walk or has some other major health problem as a result of poor breeding. You'd have to learn the fine art of saying things like 'they're just for pets so hips aren't important' or 'I'm not charging a lot so I won't help out when the dog gets sick' and my favorite 'I can't take the dog back because I have another litter on the ground already and can't sell those pups'...

Lana


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