# Timberwolf Organics lying to consumers



## cascabel (Sep 25, 2007)

I just realized that this hasn't been brought up on this board yet, so I wanted to post some information regarding the 'scandal' going on with what was a company I once held in high regard. 

Timberwolf organics recently posted a new ingredients list on their website. The formulas are significantly altered with new proteins in formerly single or dual protein sources and more 'low-quality' ingredients added. 

So when I called and asked why they changed their food to contain lower quality ingredients while charging more, they said that it was just a bag printing error and that the ingredients now listed on the websites have been in the bags mislabeled for a couple of years. So basically they sold food with vastly different ingredients in the food than listed on the labels. 

They also said that their website has always reflected the ingredients, but this too was a lie as it only changed recently. (As someone who used to feed this food and recommended it to others...I checked their site very often...sometimes more than once a week.)


So I called back, and was then told that the only changes made were name adjustments to fit AAFCO naming standards. Like changing from 'potato' to 'dried potato product' and such. However, this is clearly also a lie, as there are completely different and new ingredients in the 'new' ingredients list. Additionally the number of ingredients has changed in many of the formulas! So clearly it wasn't just a naming issue. 

At this point I gave up trying to talk to them. They were just feeding me lie after lie. I then saw that the dogfoodproject had addressed this issue, so it is becoming quite widespread. I have since heard quite a few other troubling stories which i won't share at this time. 


If you want to see more detailed information check out the following links:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

*List showing 'old' vs. 'new' ingredients:*
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/downloads/timberwolf_comparison.pdf

*If you would like to report this company to the BBB:*
http://www.orlando.bbb.org 


Needless to say, I am furious as this was a food I fed my dog for a long time. To now be told that I was feeding her something completely different is outrageous. I find this all very disconcerting.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

I also feed my dog TO and I am not concerned. According to www.dogfoodanalysis.com the food is still considered a premium 5-star dog food and this was updated December 9, 2007. In checking the ingredients I really don't feel deceived. Additionally, the food has been working well for my dog who is now a year and a half of age so I am going to continue to use it-I am still comfortable with the ingredients compared to other dogs foods out there. I also feel comfortable that they update their website regularly which is which I check periodically. I also thought they were very sensitive and professional during last years pet food recalls. 

I can understand if you feel you need to switch but for now I am going to stay with it. Thanks for the info!!


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## cascabel (Sep 25, 2007)

Ginny01OT said:


> According to www.dogfoodanalysis.com the food is still considered a premium 5-star dog food and this was updated December 9, 2007.



That's true. However, Natural Balance is also a 4 star rated food on that website and how many dogs and cats did that kill?  

Dogfoodanalysis can be a good 'guideline' for food newbies, but I would encourage you to utilize many sources, especially those who disclose the author and their credentials. 

You of course can continue to feed your dog whatever you like. I just wanted to make sure this information was out on this site since I know there are a bunch of people who trust this company.....and personally I am a dog owner who wants to know the ingredients I am feeding my dog.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. My dog predominantly eats raw food, TO is just a snack----figure it is better than rawhide or anything else!!!


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## Dieselboxers (Dec 10, 2007)

We fed TWO for two years, switched to Wellness Core two weeks ago..........this is why.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

cascabel said:


> That's true. However, Natural Balance is also a 4 star rated food on that website and how many dogs and cats did that kill?
> 
> Dogfoodanalysis can be a good 'guideline' for food newbies, but I would encourage you to utilize many sources, especially those who disclose the author and their credentials.



Excellent point ... And I wonder why we place our trust in companies such as WDJ & Dog Food Analysis (and similar companies) and allow them to tell us which foods are high quality! If TWO is giving your dog results, awesome! But it's not because its a "5 star food", it's just because that's what you're dog does well on. Sometimes I think it's more about the "prestiege" of a certain brand name than the actual results a food gives that attracts people to purchase it. Not always, but many times this is the case.

I think their prices are now outrageous, not what we should be expected to pay for dog food. I can cook for 10 dogs and still come out having a cheaper diet than TWO. I've tried it and thought it was ok. Certainly not a 5 star food in my book, but not a bad one either. We did have loose stools on some formulas, and filthy teeth. Had one bitch who was incontinant on TWO, and she never had accidents in the house  Then had another one on the Chicken formula during most of her pregnancy & she did quite well. I get results that are 1000x better/more consistant with Blackwood 2000, which will never be a 5 star food ... but they use ingredients sourced in the USA, are beyond honest with their customers as to where there foods are produced (something which TWO will not reveal) and the food gives us large litters and healthy hounds who can last all day in the field or on the couch, lol


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## ozzy (Sep 29, 2007)

Interesting point about the WDJ and Dog Food Analysis. Before I came to this forum I did not know much about this food subject and I have been learning a lot. I certainly don't want to give my dog crap or feed him some awful food. I went with what his breeder recommended and it works for him. While doing my research though I came across a very good article that pointed out that a lot of these ingredient lists on foods such TWO are listed in a way to sound good to us humans and mean nothing. Just like the natural label or labling a meat human grade. It's all marketing and really doesn't mean more than the words themselves. It also said the ratings on those sites are rated on how the ingredients sound to us humans not on actual tests of the food and how dogs did on them. I am not sure why people put so much trust in something that is rated that way.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

ozzy said:


> While doing my research though I came across a very good article that pointed out that a lot of these ingredient lists on foods such TWO are listed in a way to sound good to us humans and mean nothing. Just like the natural label or labling a meat human grade. It's all marketing and really doesn't mean more than the words themselves. It also said the ratings on those sites are rated on how the ingredients sound to us humans not on actual tests of the food and how dogs did on them. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I actually had a Vet wake me up to this a few years ago, when I was looking for a diet for my cat w/ renal failure. She said something about one brand of food that I thought was good, something about how all their claims are questionable becuase they are just trying to out do their competitor. I'd never thought of it that way, but made so much sense. This Vet sells a feed called Precise, which I *think* is made by Diamond. She's heard from reps of other companies that will badmouth Precise's ingredients while inflating their own. She mentioned it was how new companies were able to take a hold in a very competitive market, and had nothing to do with the ingredients they were badmouthing. So made me look at nutrition in a different light from that day on.
> ...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Natural Balance is still a good food; it isn't their fault the ingredients were contaminated. If chicken meal ever got recalled, almost all dog foods would be affected. I'm sure most companies use the same supplier. Just because spinach was recalled a few years back doesn't mean you shouldn't have spinach in your salad. And, besides, I think only the Venison variety was recalled anyway.


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## ozzy (Sep 29, 2007)

Those are good articles UrbanBeagles. I had come across the first one myself while doing research and I wish more people would do some research before preaching about certain foods. It bothers me when someone new comes on here and everyone slams their food. People really need to make their own decisions.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I think it is important to read labels on food anyway. Just because you have fed a certain type of food for years does not mean it is the same food as when you started. It is common practice to cheapen the quality and keep the price the same. It is another good lessen to all of us to not relax where our dogs care is concerned. Thanks for posting. I don't feed this but it is a good reminder anyway.


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## ChillisMom (Aug 25, 2007)

I was disappointed when I found out...I switched to Orijen and my dogs are doing great on it.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

I was concerned when reading this thread as I do give my dog TO in additional to raw food. I specifically went to the dog food project website and started reading their "ingredients to avoid" and "how to read dog food lables" to know what the primary foods in a formula are" According to the dog food project--ingredients listed ABOVE the first listed "fat product" are the predominant ingredients. I then printed the TO Comparison charts found in this thread. I only looked at the three formulas I feed and here are the updated formulas: 

Black Forest: Venison, Ground Brown Rice, Lamb, Ground Millet, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal, Oat Groats, Venison meal then chicken fat (followed by others but according to the dog food project the first 7 ingredients are predominant).

Dakota Bison: Bison, Salmon meal, ground millet, ground brown rice, oat groats then chicken fat (followed by others)

Lamb, Barley and Apples: Lamb, Ground brown rice, salmon meal, lamb meal, chicken fat (again followed by others)

I have also looked at these three formulas over and over regarding their "new ingredients" and NO WHERE is dried potato product listed anywhere as stated in this thread--Dakota Bison does have SWEET POTATOS in it. 

Let us quickly look at the predominant ingredients in Purina Pro Plan for Sensitive Skin/Stomach: Salmon, brewers rice, canola meal (what is that?), oat meal, fish meal then animal fat (followed by others)--reviewing the dog food project would educate you on these ingredients and what probably makes the difference between a 1,2or 3,4,5 star product

I think it is not right that the incorrect food was listed on bags and I can certainly understand why anyone would be upset and switch if that was the fact but I also believe the customer service reps at TO have been very responsive to any concerns that I have had and I am still a satisfied customer. The bottom line really is if it works and continues to work for you and your dog then more power to it--whatever it be.

For what it is worth, I will stay in what is considered a 3,4 or 5 star hotel based on certain criteria for rating than a 1 or 2 star hotel any day of the week. 

Seriously, Happy Holidays all, stay healthy! Best Wishes!


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## cascabel (Sep 25, 2007)

Ginny01OT said:


> I have also looked at these three formulas over and over regarding their "new ingredients" and NO WHERE is dried potato product listed anywhere as stated in this thread--Dakota Bison does have SWEET POTATOS in it.


check the 3rd ingredient in ocean blue

although I don't really see how that's relevant. It was just the example they told me when they *tried* to convince me the only changes were naming of ingredients, not the actual ingredients themselves.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

I don't feed Ocean Blue so I did not check out their ingredients, I only feed the three formulas I looked at--when I tried Riley on the Ocean Blue he itched a lot. I would definitely call TO and ask for a definition of dried potato product if I was using that product. I am still comfortable with the three formulas I feed as I spend days comparing them to other products. Thanks for the info again


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## cja75 (Jan 2, 2008)

I saw this too. I emailed them because untill now they were in my rotation of foods. Their old lable said LOW ASH salmon meal etc.. Now they say salmon meal, all of their meals are like this now. also used to say WHOLE brown rice not anymore. Im done with them. DRIED POTATO PRODUCT????? What are they thinking???? dogfoodanalysis still rates them a 5 but only because it has alot of meat. Some of these new ingredients are junk. like buying a ring with a big beautiful diamond in the middle and fake rubies around it. Whats the point of using alot of good EXPENSIVE ingredients and mixing them with junk? A chain is only as strong as the weakest link right? I'll never buy it again



Ginny01OT said:


> I don't feed Ocean Blue so I did not check out their ingredients, I only feed the three formulas I looked at--when I tried Riley on the Ocean Blue he itched a lot. I would definitely call TO and ask for a definition of dried potato product if I was using that product. I am still comfortable with the three formulas I feed as I spend days comparing them to other products. Thanks for the info again


R U Sure??? They changed all of them. Wild and natural uses dried egg product and doesnt use low ash meals. You want to spend all that money on food with dried egg product in it?? Im not saying to food is horrible but it costs ALOT!! More than foods with better ingredients. Im not telling you what to do but recheck the ingredients on their website. heres a link comparing old and new. They are different even your formulas. 
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/downloads/timberwolf_comparison.pd

The point is they lied!! Again the food isn't awful but not as good as their LABEL made it seem.


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## Kari's Mom (Dec 5, 2007)

I was very happy with TWO for awhile, I recommened it to several people but I base a lot on a companies reputation when I look at food. I happily feed Natural Balance because one of their formulas DID get recalled and do you know what the company did? They CHANGED the formula! Now its a grainless food which is great because I work at a petfood retailer and its the 'best' food we carry which can be frustrating. TWO isnt what it used to be, I'd rather feed something a little cheaper or a better (orijen is great food and is really steady, I'd even be happier with california natural)


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## Kari's Mom (Dec 5, 2007)

sent timberwolf a message this is what they sent me:

I apologize for any problems that may have been caused by our label change. We still believe that we have the highest quality food on the market. Many of the changes to the label are a result of AAFCO regulations on certain ingredients. For example potatoes. AAFCO doesn't define potato, only wet and dry potato products. Since we don't add any additional water to our ingredients to closest definition is dried potato product. We do not use any by-products, wheat or corn in our foods and we stand by our quality. If you have any other questions feel free to email or give us a call. Thank you.


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