# Purina: How did such a horrible food become so popular????



## Pareeeee (Sep 29, 2009)

Since Purina Dog Chow it is pretty much one of the worst foods you can buy, how come it is so popular?? I mean it's packed with corn and wheat to name a couple...


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

It's cheap, and they have great advertising?

That being said, I feed my dogs and cats ProPlan. It's not the best food on the market, but it's the food that I can feed everyone with nothing adverse. We tried all of the high end, "premium" foods (CaNat, Innova, Wellness, BB, etc) and someone was always having an issue (i.e., hot spots, diarrhea, dry skin, weight loss, etc). Everyone is doing very, very with ProPlan, and I don't see myself fixing what ain't broken.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Advertising and availability. I see both print and TV ads for it all the time, and it's available at all the major department/grocery stores in bright, easily-noticed bags. In addition to that, it's cheap, and most people have absolutely no idea about the nutritional needs of dogs and think Purina is a good food.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

I've bought it because it's available in the area and has a type for toy puppies, not just toy, not just puppy, at the sacrifice of it having corn in it. I think more brands need to specify the dog age and size - I've been researching a lot of better quality food, but I want to know it's got enough nutrition for an active toy puppy. And it's got to be available in pet stores for people to buy it. I went through aisles of petsmart looking for toy puppy food without corn, and I've only found one that is only -sometimes- in stock. Plus - in the vet office there are tons of advertisements for Purina. And it's cheap. Not surprised it's selling so well.


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## TheBearCat (Jun 5, 2010)

Definitely a lack of education as well. We still get dogs in who have been fed Ol' Roy, Alpo and Kibbles N Bits. A lot of people believe any ol food will do, and it's a bonus if it's cheaper. People don't always know what to look for in their dog foods either and commercials can be very misleading.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Advertising....dog chow is kind of catchy. They have a commercial out now that says something about a 14 year research study about how dog chow lengthens a dog's life span. Interesting. Beneful is the wrost food ever though. I can see how corn wouldn't be a huge deal with dogs who can tolerate it but with cats, it doesn't make sense. However, meat should be the primary source of energy regardless. As well, they don't even use whole corn, they use the gluten. Oh well, it's a big company and obviously people buy it. Having said that, if it works for your dog. The only caveat I have with that is people have different ideas of 'doing well' is...a live dog versus a dog with vitality and a shiny coat etc. It seems a lot of breeders feed pro plan or purina one so it can't be all that bad. I just wouldn't go with beneful...gross. There was a cat in the hospital who ate kitten chow and the kibble looked like candy that you get out of those coin dispensers.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Nevermind what I said earlier - I just looked at my dog food and it's Iams with the toy puppy. I don't know how Iams is in the scale of dog food though. I don't know if Purina has toy puppy or not. Also I believe Iams was advertised at the vet's, that's why I was ok buying it even though there was corn.


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

Iams is hardly better than Purina I would put them on the same rating. Personally I think its just availability and advertisement. People don't really care to learn any different, I have tried to educate a lot of people and they just don't want to listen. They think they know whats best.

Cynster might I suggest that it is not as important to make sure a dog gets size based food. Your pap should do fine on a regular puppy food. There is puppy foods from Wellness and Blue Buffalo that don't have any corn.

This site might help.
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Purina is bad but it's not horrible. There's much worse. I just got done feeding Purina One Beyond which has no corn, and Hallie loved it and did great. No anal gland problems, coat problems, etc. She's doing awesome. What works for one dog might not work for the next.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Active Dog said:


> Iams is hardly better than Purina I would put them on the same rating. Personally I think its just availability and advertisement. People don't really care to learn any different, I have tried to educate a lot of people and they just don't want to listen. They think they know whats best.


Pretty much. I tried to (gently) tell a co-worker how bad Kibbles and Bits is, and he listened to me and didn't get offended or anything, but he didn't stop feeding his dog that, either. If a person's dog doesn't have noticeable coat/skin issues, they don't seem to take it seriously.

I had Crystal on Royal Canin for a while when I got her (not a terrible food, but not great), and she didn't have any noticeable issues, but I noticed a big difference when I switched her to TotW. Her stools are smaller, darker and firmer (and less smelly), she eats less but has the same amount of energy, and she actually enjoys the food and always empties her bowl (she would leave RC sitting in there). I have Casper on Orijen and Acana and his coat is SO shiny (much nicer than my late malamute/collie's, who ate IAMS) and he also has the small/firm/darker/non-smelly stool. When I had him neutered they fed him a bowl of whatever they keep up there at the vet's and his poop was larger and much more yellow.


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## 3Lab (Jun 4, 2010)

I think it's funny that most people take the dog food analysis sites as gospel. It's someone's opinion on the internet, people!
Purina Dog Chow may not be the BEST food out there, but other products produced by Purina are great. I feed ProPlan to my current show puppy (as do A LOT of great Labrador breeders, and he does fantastic). I've fed everything from Orijen to Innova, and it was hard to get consistency in stool and appropriate weight. Sure, there are products that Purina puts out that are not all that great, but some are. Also, does anyone realize the research Purina puts into it's dog food? Orijen and the like hardly do that. It's funny the notions people hold, without actual experience feeding the products. 
Oh, and my female lab got yeasty ears eating Orijen and Acana.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Crantastic - I am going to try TOTW like you suggested earlier - I'm having the same issue with the smelly not very firm stools. 

Active Dog - If she is 6 months is switching her to a better adult food better? Or something like start with a better puppy food, then switch to an even better adult food?


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

Excellent marketing. Mass funding (owned by Nestle), Cheap. Available everywhere. But just like alot of big name companies, they are more about the profit than health. The ingredients are awful and very low quality. They even include artificial colors, sugar/corn syrup, soy, unidentified meat sources (diseased animals, euthenized pets, slaughterhouse waste) etc their foods. Even if you feel that SOME of their products are decent the fact is they still are willing to slap their name on a ton of other products that are beyond horrible. Any company that is willing to even produce these foods and tell people they are healthy is not worth supporting. 

Top ingredients in other Purina products..

*Purina Moist and Meaty (which they say is healthy as a complete meal) *
Ingredients: Beef by-product, soy grits, soy flour, high fructose corn syrup, wheat flour, water, corn syrup, beef, phosphoric acid, calcium carbonate, salt, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of vitamin E), sorbic acid (a preservative), dried cheese powder (predominantly cheddar cheese), calcium propionate (a preservative), dl-methionine, choline chloride, added color 

*Purina Little Bites (dry)*

Ingredients: whole grain corn, meat and bone meal, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of vitamin E), chicken, whole grain wheat, egg and chicken flavor, animal digest, brewers rice, salt, l-lysine monohydrochloride, potassium chloride, added color


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Purina USED to be the best out there. They still have what is considered to be the best vitamin/mineral pre-mix in the industry, which is why animals fed Purina feeds do better than those on other brands with similar ingredients. I really wish Purina would put out a truly decent food (ingredient wise) for that reason (Purina ONE Beyond has too much soy for my comfort). They've done the most research and really know how to keep animals healthy on the cheapest ingredients. It is unfortunate that they bought out the really horrible foods and didn't change the ingredients (like I think "Moist 'n' Meaty" used to be "Gainesburgers"), but their original foods aren't too bad.


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

cynster said:


> Nevermind what I said earlier - I just looked at my dog food and it's Iams with the toy puppy. I don't know how Iams is in the scale of dog food though. I don't know if Purina has toy puppy or not. Also I believe Iams was advertised at the vet's, that's why I was ok buying it even though there was corn.


Vets are trained in medical care, they are not nutritionalists (exception being some holistic vets) They have approx 8 hours of nutrition training which are taught by hills/science diet/iams reps. 

http://www.optimalpetfoods.com/blog/vets-and-pet-food-what-are-they-recommending-20333.html

www.iamscruelty.com


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## bartleby (Aug 18, 2010)

Purina is one of the oldest companies in the animal feed industry, started before World War One. The alternative at the time was cooking from scratch or giving the dog the leftovers from whatever the humans had for supper. Buying human quality food, especially meat, to give to the dog was not always a financial or socially appropriate option during the war and Depression years. Purina was cheaper and better for the dog than random table scraps. Once people got in the habit of feeding kibble, they just kept on doing it because it was cheap, convenient, and worked. Of course advertising contributed - manufacturers of foods for both humans and pets were determinedly working on convincing people that processed foods were healthier and more advanced than whatever their grandparents had eaten.


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

3Lab said:


> I think it's funny that most people take the dog food analysis sites as gospel. It's someone's opinion on the internet, people!
> Purina Dog Chow may not be the BEST food out there, but other products produced by Purina are great. I feed ProPlan to my current show puppy (as do A LOT of great Labrador breeders, and he does fantastic). I've fed everything from Orijen to Innova, and it was hard to get consistency in stool and appropriate weight. Sure, there are products that Purina puts out that are not all that great, but some are. Also, does anyone realize the research Purina puts into it's dog food? Orijen and the like hardly do that. It's funny the notions people hold, without actual experience feeding the products.
> Oh, and my female lab got yeasty ears eating Orijen and Acana.


Its not just Dog Food Analysis that says this, there are many other site that other forum members have posted in the past that say the same thing. And before you say I haven't tried feeding other foods and "actually experienced it" yes I have. The only reason my dogs are fed BB is because Ava is allergic to corn/wheat. I was originally feeding TOTW but Miko was doing poorly on it and had really soft smelly stool. I knew Ava did great on BB so I didn't have a problem trying it out and both of them are doing fantastic on it! I used to feed Ava Iams and some Eukanuba brand but she itched and pooped too much on them, I chose to put her on premium food because it is better for Ava.


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## 3Lab (Jun 4, 2010)

Active Dog said:


> Its not just Dog Food Analysis that says this, there are many other site that other forum members have posted in the past that say the same thing. And before you say I haven't tried feeding other foods and "actually experienced it" yes I have. The only reason my dogs are fed BB is because Ava is allergic to corn/wheat. I was originally feeding TOTW but Miko was doing poorly on it and had really soft smelly stool. I knew Ava did great on BB so I didn't have a problem trying it out and both of them are doing fantastic on it! I used to feed Ava Iams and some Eukanuba brand but she itched and pooped too much on them, I chose to put her on premium food because it is better for Ava.


I think you took my post personally. I was not calling you out and saying you didn't have experience, it's just that the majority of people out there calling this and that food bad, have no experience feeding it.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Erin2854 said:


> Vets are trained in medical care, they are not nutritionalists (exception being some holistic vets) They have approx 8 hours of nutrition training which are taught by hills/science diet/iams reps.


Neither are general practitioners, but they can still give a patient an idea of what is right to eat and what might lead to problems. And I highly doubt it's only 8 hours total.

I can understand avoiding foods with ingredients that can lead to allergies or other problems, even the stool quality, which is why I'm going to switch, but I think the dog food's meat ingredients sound better than Taco Bell's meat, to put it in perspective. It sounds like the dogs are being put on an organic diet to me, which I think is a little extreme considering they are domesticated dogs. But that's just my opinion. 

And that second link is from PETA. They kill tens of thousands of animals while people still want pets enough to pay hundreds of dollars for them. I don't think they have any room to be pointing fingers at anyone.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

3Lab said:


> I think it's funny that most people take the dog food analysis sites as gospel. It's someone's opinion on the internet, people!
> Purina Dog Chow may not be the BEST food out there, but other products produced by Purina are great. I feed ProPlan to my current show puppy (as do A LOT of great Labrador breeders, and he does fantastic). I've fed everything from Orijen to Innova, and it was hard to get consistency in stool and appropriate weight. Sure, there are products that Purina puts out that are not all that great, but some are. Also, does anyone realize the research Purina puts into it's dog food? Orijen and the like hardly do that. It's funny the notions people hold, without actual experience feeding the products.
> Oh, and my female lab got yeasty ears eating Orijen and Acana.


DFA is not run by a licensed nutritionist, all the reviews look computer automated, there are no reviews by someone who has actually fed the food. So I really don't care for that site or any other review site. I much prefer my method of trial and error. I don't like it when people push their food on others, people should feed what works for their dog for their budget, all dogs are different. I have known some dogs that could not take that highly rich dog food. 

I also feed pro plan, as I have gotten the best results on this. I have fed TOTW, Fromm, Solid Gold, Diamond Naturals, etc, and I got horrible coats on a few of them, not something I need in my show dogs. 

Purina has been around for a very long time, originally purina mills until they split off, and purina mills just became livestock feed, where Purina is dog and cat food. They have the money to do advertising. People have fed purina and have trusted them for a long time. And it is cheap, AND you can get really good discounts from them. We buy in bulk and we can get a large amount of bags for free. 

My dogs have great appetites, great coats, great stools, they are in great condition, and most are on various formulas of pro plan. 

Yes some of the products they make are less than stellar. But some are really good. I personally don't like Beneful, but my sister feeds it to her one dog with no problems. Frankly I am surprised her stools aren't red/green/yellow etc. I don't like the amount of soy put into the shredded blend and carvers (i think they have a new name now), so I don't feed it or use them as treats. 

Pro plan and Purina One do seem to be the top foods people with show dogs feed, next to eukenuba. Most of the top dogs in the country are fed those foods, so it really can't be that bad if it is working for those dogs.


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

cynster said:


> Neither are general practitioners, but they can still give a patient an idea of what is right to eat and what might lead to problems. And I highly doubt it's only 8 hours total.
> 
> I can understand avoiding foods with ingredients that can lead to allergies or other problems, even the stool quality, which is why I'm going to switch, but I think the dog food's meat ingredients sound better than Taco Bell's meat, to put it in perspective. It sounds like the dogs are being put on an organic diet to me, which I think is a little extreme considering they are domesticated dogs. But that's just my opinion.
> 
> And that second link is from PETA. They kill tens of thousands of animals while people still want pets enough to pay hundreds of dollars for them. I don't think they have any room to be pointing fingers at anyone.


True, general practioners are not nutritionalists. Actually doctors spend very little time learning about nutrition. But they often will send patients to see a dietician or a nutrionalist. Vet schools teach VERY little in nutrional training. Many holistic vets will openly tell you this. That is why they have taken it upon themselves to study nutrition. I am not a big PETA supporter, but facts are facts. Iam's has been involved in some horrible animal testing.

According to the Association of American Veterinary Medical Colleges (AAVMC) there are 32 veterinary medical colleges in the United States and Canada. Our sampling of nine veterinary school undergraduate curriculum requirements found only 5/9 schools required 3 credits in animal nutrition while 4/9 schools required 0 credits in animal nutrition to graduate. Total credits to graduate varied from 46-79 per school. Source: www.aavmc.org

http://www.optimumchoices.com/vet_school_nutrition.htm

*What do medical doctors learn about nutrtion?*
A new study indicating that 60 percent of medical schools in the United States are not meeting minimum recommendations for their students’ nutrition education offers more reasons for consumers to seek food and nutrition advice from the experts: the registered dietitians of the American Dietetic Association.

Of course, would-be doctors take nutrition classes as a basic part of their med-school curriculum, right? Actually, no. According to various surveys, only somewhere between 30-40% of medical schools have a required nutrition course. So, at most, 40% percent of physicians have taken one... one single course in nutrition, most often in their first year

http://www.examiner.com/vegan-in-omaha/how-much-doesn-t-your-doctor-know-about-nutrition


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

I can shed a little light on training in nutrition (at my school anyway). It's a 1 semester class here and is taught by various faculty from the vet school and a few come over from main campus as well. Of the small animal nutrition instructors, many are board certified nutritional specialists or internal med. specialists. Hill's and Iams were permitted to have a rep come and talk for 2 hours each. Surprisingly, their only time they really pitched their product was when they got to the dental diets - maybe they're having a little battle over that now? Most students either studied while the reps were there or really got annoyed when they started making the pitches for the dental stuff - I studied for oncology during 2 of those hours and went and played 9 holes of golf during the other 2. 

I know several holistic vets - a couple of them I wouldn't even trust to read the label on a bag of dog food - some have put some real time into nutrition. Also know some non holistic vets that could write a whole book on it. Personally, I feel that labeling holistic vets as being any more knowledgeable in nutrition than normal GPs is not very wise. Just because a vet (holistic or not) confirms what one wants to hear doesn't make it correct. 

For those interested in seeking an individual that you can be certain has put real time into nutrition, you can seek the advice of a veterinary nutritional specialist. At least that's what I would do. To each his own...


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

as w/ others on here that feed Purina products, i do too....i have tried many "premium" foods only to have my dogs go to pot on them (coats brittle and dull, energy level down...believe me, you notice when a BC's energy drops ...., having to feed double the amount to keep weight on, etc)........what i have found to work best is P.O. and i will stick w/ it.....


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

A LOT of show breeders feed and swear by ProPlan. If it truly did cause inferior results in health and coat with most dogs, it would not be so popular with show folks (who are generally very obsessive about maintaining a dog's 'perfect' condition). Many dogs do just fine on it, and if we went broke tomorrow and were forced to downgrade food costs, I would totally go back to it as my first choice. The 'best' food is whatever your dog thrives on, there is not always a clear black and white 'final answer' on the subject.


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## Masterjedi688 (Apr 27, 2009)

I remember feeding my peke a poo Pedigree when I was little. The commercials spoke volumes to me as a child and I thought or felt that it was the BEST dog food for my dog. Nowadays, I won't even bother feeding it to my dog after learning how to read the labels and understanding a bit more about the ingredients. Why is this food/brand still being made if its not the best dog food on the market? Don't the makers care about the dogs? I guess not. I guess they only care about the money and not the well being of the dogs. When it comes to longevity in dogs, I don't think it depends on the food there eating. It also depends on the proper vet care the dog gets, exercise and family care the dog receives.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Pai said:


> A LOT of show breeders feed and swear by ProPlan. If it truly did cause inferior results in health and coat with most dogs, it would not be so popular with show folks (who are generally very obsessive about maintaining a dog's 'perfect' condition). Many dogs do just fine on it, and if we went broke tomorrow and were forced to downgrade food costs, I would totally go back to it as my first choice. The 'best' food is whatever your dog thrives on, there is not always a clear black and white 'final answer' on the subject.


Well said.

Also, Does anyone here believe that the "premium" dog food companies have anything other than profit as the number one goal? Maybe I'm just cynical, but, I don't see it being any other way.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Is Pro Plan available at the big department stores and supermarkets? I was under the impression that it was sold more at stores like Petco and Tractor Supply and the like. I don't consider it to be on the same (crap) level as the big bags of Pedigree Dog Chow you see at WalMart or Kroger. It's closer to Royal Canin or other foods on that level -- I don't think they're the best I can afford and I choose not to feed them to my dogs, but I know many show dogs that do just fine on them and have nice coats and good energy levels.

And of course the "premium" dog food companies are concerned with profit first and foremost. Every company is if they want to succeed. I do think that their method of ensuring profit is to produce the best food possible, targeting the people who are willing to pay more for fresh, regional, human-grade ingredients. Look at the ingredient list on a bag of Orijen -- it's lovely, with many meat sources and lots of veggies. My dog does great on it. Yes, I have fed other brands -- Royal Canin, Pedigree, IAMS, and Kibbles and Bits before I knew better -- and I think it's the best food I can get with my budget. 

Also, I don't blindly feed Orijen because it's "premium" and therefore "the best" in my mind. I did a lot of reading on pet foods before I switched to it. I read every FAQ on their site, and I read independent reviews. Also, it won pet food of the year last year -- an award given out by the Glycemic Research Institute in Washington, an independent institute that IS made up of experts, unlike DogFoodAnalysis (which I also like, although I realize it's not an "expert" source).



> The Glycemic Research Institute in Washington, DC. selected ORIJEN from Champion Petfoods™ as the PET FOOD OF THE YEAR 2010-2011.
> 
> The Medical Advisory Board, Senior Staff, and Associate Research Fellows of the Glycemic Research Institute® (GRI) provide Independent Pro Bono Certification for products that pass the strict GRI Protocols, by authorization of the United States government, the Canadian government and the United Kingdom government.
> 
> ...


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Mr. V said:


> Here's a nice little blog on grains in diets from Susan Wynn. She's a veterinary nutrition specialist and holistic med veterinarian.
> 
> http://vetnutrition.blogspot.com/2009/05/are-grains-all-bad.html


I think what has happened with grains, is that people started taking the fact that grains being used as the primary protein source (instead of meat) in a dog food is not good, and ran with it to the point where they've been overly vilified beyond what they deserve. As a _carb/fiber_ source, they're generally ok for most dogs.

The soundbyte against having too much grain (and processed grain waste products) in a food has been misinterpreted by a lot of people as meaning it should never be in a food at all. The Dog Food Project explains it pretty well:


> Corn often gets an undeserved bad reputation. While it is not acceptable as a main source of protein in a dog food (as it is used in combination with corn gluten), as a source of carbohydrates it is no better and no worse than other grains in terms of nutritional value and digestibility. The starch part of corn is highly digestible but the whole ground product has a higher fiber content than other grains (around 7%), which results in slightly larger stools - often incorrectly interpreted as lack of digestibility. Unless an individual dog is intolerant or allergic to corn, there is no need to avoid products which include it in reasonable amounts.


And here's a study that measured the digestibility of several grains in dog food. A lot of 'dog food review' sites make scores based on value judgments about individual ingredients that may not be accurate or backed up with research.

Purina may not be the top-quality food out there, but they have years of long-term feed studies and results that show that their food is not 'dog poison' either. Some brands DESERVE to be called horrible (Kibbles n' Bits, Ol'Roy, etc), but Purina is more of a 'mid range' quality, really.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Pai and Mr. V. Some days I feel like the only person on the planet who doesn't have a hate-on for corn and other grains.


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## Pareeeee (Sep 29, 2009)

LOL wow I didn't think there would be this many replies to my thread. I think I've started something 

I personally feed a relatively new dog food available at WalMart (yes, WalMart) called Actr1um. It has no corn and no wheat. The first ingredient is meat and the filler used is rice. I know there are better foods out there but if your on a budget I reccommend it.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

ProPlan is very popular with the dog show people. Almost all the show people I know feed it (our handler fed raw but she was very unusual in my experience). It seems to work very well for those dogs although you do have to realize that most show dogs are supplemented too on top of it. I'm not sure if the results are the superb care, grooming and supplements or the food to be honest.

I don't feed Purina (have in the past). My dogs look better on grain free overall, especially Summer. But I know a lot of dogs that thrive on it.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't have an issue with filler grains for calories. I have an issue with the quality of the ingredients. Here is Purina ONE® SmartBlend™ Lamb & Rice Formula

There isn't enough meal meal in this so calcium and phosphorus need to be added, corn gluten is a big part of the protein in this food. Unnamed poultry byproduct and animal fat and digest sounds like it comes from a 4D renderer which means spoiled meats went into it. If spoiled ingredients go in then the food is not as wholesome, all the toxins produced by the bacteria and all cannot be cooked away. Brewers rice is a left over from another food and not as nutritious. Corn gluten meal is leftover from another process and is a cheap protein. Also this is called Lamb and rice but it also contains poultry, oatmeal, corn and soy products. The minerals added are cheap and poorly absorbed. I have never seen pure sulfur added to a food. Sulfur is a very common element in meat protein, why does it need to be added?
Lamb (natural source of glucosamine), *brewers rice, corn gluten meal,* whole grain corn, *poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine)*, oat meal, *animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols* (form of Vitamin E), soy flakes, soybean meal, glycerin, *animal digest*, *calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate*, salt, potassium chloride, caramel color, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, *ferrous sulfate, sulfur, manganese sulfate*, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, *copper sulfate*, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> *DFA is not run by a licensed nutritionist, all the reviews look computer automated, there are no reviews by someone who has actually fed the food. So I really don't care for that site or any other review site.* I much prefer my method of trial and error. I don't like it when people push their food on others, people should feed what works for their dog for their budget, all dogs are different. I have known some dogs that could not take that highly rich dog food.
> 
> I also feed pro plan, as I have gotten the best results on this. I have fed TOTW, Fromm, Solid Gold, Diamond Naturals, etc, and I got horrible coats on a few of them, not something I need in my show dogs.
> 
> ...


I'm with you on DFA...I appreciate the website and I think it helps people who are brand-new to feeding dogs, but I think it's a bit opinionated. Auz did horribly on some of the 6 star foods, and does well on a 3 star food. I'm going to continue feeding him what works for him, regardless of what the opinion is.
FWIW I've also fed Pro Plan. The dog in question did well on it.



sassafras said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you, Pai and Mr. V. Some days I feel like the only person on the planet who doesn't have a hate-on for corn and other grains.


I actually think some of my dogs look and act *better* if they get some corn in their diet. Auz's coat improved TREMENDOUSLY when I fed him a food with corn (not corn based, but it has corn in it). The only one who seems to have (minor) problems with corn is Dude.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Wanted to add, there is NOTHING wrong with a byproduct meal. Just because I don't enjoy chewing chicken feet doesn't mean it isn't beneficial to my dog. People treat dogs like babies too often. They are dogs, they're different from us.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Hallie said:


> Wanted to add, there is NOTHING wrong with a byproduct meal. Just because I don't enjoy chewing chicken feet doesn't mean it isn't beneficial to my dog. People treat dogs like babies too often. They are dogs, they're different from us.


A lot of the stuff in byproduct meal (organs, brains, eyes, feet, cartiledge) is eaten by people in many cultures as well. It's not considered 'tasty' in the West, but that doesn't make it BAD or nutritionally worthless. And 'In the Wild', canids eat all of those things. If a food that had pure named meat meal as a main ingredient had some by-product meal in it too I wouldn't think badly of it, personally. It's all about proper balance and quality.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I've never fed a Purina product but wanted to say that Ginger came to me on Nutro Natural puppy; huge smelly poops. On Orijen fish, it's a whole other ballgame! Small poops, nicely formed and they don't smell disgusting. For poop LOL


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Pai said:


> A lot of the stuff in byproduct meal (organs, brains, eyes, feet, cartiledge) is eaten by people in many cultures as well. It's not considered 'tasty' in the West, but that doesn't make it BAD or nutritionally worthless. And 'In the Wild', canids eat all of those things. If a food that had pure meat meal as a main ingredient had some by-product meal in it too I wouldn't think badly of it, personally. It's all about proper balance and quality.


I (for one) would much rather feed my dog a food that had "chicken by-products" as a main ingredient, rather than "meat meal". "Meat" could be anything. At least the named by products are named.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I (for one) would much rather feed my dog a food that had "chicken by-products" as a main ingredient, rather than "meat meal". "Meat" could be anything. At least the named by products are named.


I know, that's what I meant.


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## inuyashalover21 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi, I just joined less then an hour ago but just wanted to post my opinion. If you knew what was in purina or any commercially available dog food I know someone would not buy it. All you have to do is google "Bad dog food" or even search it on youtube. They show euthanized pets being put into the food. I put our dogs on the RAW/BARF diet and they act healthier. Its just how I feel. 

Edited to add: Here is one of many links http://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/category_ID/0_63/dogbowl.asp

Hope its ok to post this link?


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

...That's only a risk in foods that have unnamed 'Meat Meal', 'Meat and Bone Meal', and 'Animal Fat' as listed ingredients. Dead pets are not 'secretly' put into all commercial pet kibble.


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## inuyashalover21 (Mar 3, 2011)

Of course! I just don't want to take the risk. BTW cute dogs


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

I know "by-products" are important when feeding a prey model raw diet, but things like organs and bone only make up a small percentage of the diet, whereas like 80% is supposed to be actual meat. You would think that a kibble whose only animal products are by-products and fat, or that have by-products high on the ingredients list, would be a bit unbalanced nutritionally, wouldn't you? Wild canines don't JUST snack on organs and such, they actually do need a considerable amount of meat in their diet. 

I don't have a problem with named by-products being included in dog foods, but when all your dog eats is by-product, fat and filler, it just doesn't seem healthy to me. Perhaps that's why so many kibble brands that have so little meat in them "need" to include so many plant-based proteins to balance it out.

I don't have much of an opinion of Purina myself, especially since there are so many "levels" of dog food that they sell. Some of their food is truly disgusting and I can't imagine why someone would feed it to their pets (Probably the same people who feed Lucky Charms to their kids at breakfast, lol). IMO ProPlan Selects seem *okay* to me and I wouldn't feel too bad about feeding it if I had no other options. But I'm still pretty uncomfortable about feeding my dog so many unnatural things like fillers and grains which wouldn't occur in a wild canine's diet.

That being said, I don't have total faith in "premium" foods either. Some of them are very high quality, but not every food works with every dog. I've fed food to Basil that caused him to have the runs non-stop. Like humans, every dog would benefit from having his diet tailor made to fit his own unique system. So I personally prefer having total control over every thing my dog eats by feeding him food in its most natural form possible: raw meat, organs and bone.


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## tecjunkie (Nov 1, 2009)

I used to feed my dog beneful (big mistake) then he started getting sick a lot. Next came Eukanuba, and it made him even sicker and his coat did not look to good. Ended up with both dogs getting sick a lot off of Eukanuba (which I thought was a good food) until a friend of mine told me about Wellness. I grandually transitioned mine to Wellness and both dogs have been doing great. After I found out that Purina was in the pet food recalls of 2007 - 2009 I would never consider feeding mine Purina. I am not trying to put anyone down, its just that I want to eliminate unnecessary visits to the vet. My dogs have always been on Wellness since and they are soo hyper. The place where I once boarded them fed them Kibbles and bits and their poops were smelly and loose. I had to transition them back to Wellness and now less smell and smaller poops. I thought that Eukanuba was a good food until I found out they were owned by IAMS and I will not feed them that ever again. IAMS was being investigated (I need to retrieve the article) for testing their food digestion on chicks. I don't need a food that uses lab tests to determine what food is nutritional by testing it on baby chickens. 

I did try Natural Balance because one of the key ingredients was oatmeal which is good for their coats and they got halfway through the bag and would not eat anymore of it. I couldn't believe it. I tried mixing it with the Wellness canned food and they still would not eat anymore of it. So they are now hooked on Wellness for now. I have to mix their food with wet food now as they prefer to eat the Wellness Super 5 mix with the turkey and sweat potato formula. Around the holidays I would feed them a special home-cooked human food that they are allowed to eat and they enjoy every last bit.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

tecjunkie said:


> After I found out that Purina was in the pet food recalls of 2007 - 2009 I would never consider feeding mine Purina.


Purina has never had a recall. Not saying their foods are so great, but their Quality Control at least seems decent.


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## bumblegoat (Jun 22, 2009)

I feed my cat foods with by-products. I use whatever good canned food I can get for a good price. On of the biggest pet food companies here will actually tell you what kinds of by-products they use if you ask.



Nargle said:


> I know "by-products" are important when feeding a prey model raw diet, but things like organs and bone only make up a small percentage of the diet, whereas like 80% is supposed to be actual meat. You would think that a kibble whose only animal products are by-products and fat, or that have by-products high on the ingredients list, would be a bit unbalanced nutritionally, wouldn't you? Wild canines don't JUST snack on organs and such, they actually do need a considerable amount of meat in their diet.


Some by-products are considered muscle meats. Heart, tripe, lung and gizzards to name a few. A lot of raw feeders actually use things like heart as main sources of muscle meat.

But of course we can't know how much of the ingredient listed as by-products are organs. I do agree that a diet with a lot of organs isn't exactly ideal.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Nargle said:


> I know "by-products" are important when feeding a prey model raw diet, but things like organs and bone only make up a small percentage of the diet, whereas like 80% is supposed to be actual meat. You would think that a kibble whose only animal products are by-products and fat, or that have by-products high on the ingredients list, would be a bit unbalanced nutritionally, wouldn't you? Wild canines don't JUST snack on organs and such, they actually do need a considerable amount of meat in their diet.
> 
> I don't have a problem with named by-products being included in dog foods, but when all your dog eats is by-product, fat and filler, it just doesn't seem healthy to me. Perhaps that's why so many kibble brands that have so little meat in them "need" to include so many plant-based proteins to balance it out.
> 
> ...


At this point, I (personally) don't have faith in 100% of any food at all...unless you know what you're looking for, meat animals can be pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones, etc, and fruits and vegetables can be sprayed with tons of pesticides. I can totally see where you're coming from by forumlating a home made diet (prey model or not), but there's very little form of "total control" unless you raise those vegetables, fruits, and animals yourself, kwim? (Yeah, I'm a bit paranoid, but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from)!


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## Selah Cowgirl (Nov 14, 2009)

cynster said:


> Neither are general practitioners, but they can still give a patient an idea of what is right to eat and what might lead to problems. And I highly doubt it's only 8 hours total.


I went to school for vet tech, quit because I could not deal with the cattiness of other techs and stupid owners.

My once a week nutrition class (2 hours) was sponsored by hills. I had a total of 14 hours of hills propaganda.


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