# Puppy has diarrhea and lethargy



## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

I got a 6-week old male puppy from the shelter on Monday 19 January. He and his siblings were abandoned by his owner (who kept the mother). He's not a pure-bred/pedigree, and it's also hard to say what breed he's leaning towards as well.

According to the shelter, he ate the Pedigree Chicken&Rice puppy kibbles softened with a bit of lukewarm water. I tried feeding him this on Monday, but he refused to eat it. I also noticed that he had a soft, dark-brown watery and mucussy stool (his stools were normal at the shelter). He has been off his food pretty much since Monday, but manages to eat at least 2 daily meals of chicken, pasta and brown rice (the chicken being cooked, no skins). He barely touches other food, and seems tired all the time.

He continued to have watery stools with a lot of mucus this whole week so far. I've had him to the vet on Wednesday, who tested his temperature (normal), and tested for tick fever (negative). They gave me a Parvo solution to give him every 2 hours. Apparently this contains electrolytes, nutrients, etc. They also gave me Gastropect of which I have to give him 2ml 2 times a day.

Yesterday (Thursday) he seemed a whole lot better, and his stools were normal.. well, light brown and firm. However, they got looser as the day progressed and be evening he was somewhat lethargic again with very loose, watery red-brown stools that have a very strong copper-like smell. This has continued so far today as well.

I have not noticed any blood in the stools, and he is not vomiting. His gums and eyelids seem to be a healthy pink as well.

I am near desperate, and very worried about the little guy. I phoned the vet again today, who just advised me to keep him hydrated (with the Parvo solution and making sure he drinks water, which he does regularly of his own accord). But what could be wrong? They still have no explanation.

More information:

He's had his first vaccinations on the 12th of January, and he has been dewormed on that day as well.

-Ryan


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

I would run, not walk, to another vet, preferrably an internal medicine specialist. I am always blown away when a pet owner calls their vet frantic with worry and the vet's response is; "it's okay, just keep doing what I told you to do". That answer is absolutely unacceptable!!! A specialist may cost you more money in the long run but as a rule, you'll get what you pay for.


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

I've been to a second vet, who concurred with the first one and just advised me to keep up the treatment and bring him in if he gets dehydrated. Which he isn't.

I must say though, during the afternoons (usually between 3 and 7pm) he is extremely playful, chasing toys and people, barking at the TV, etc. It's almost like he's a completely new dog, and then falls into a sombre mood again late at night. Which is a bit suspect.


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

I agree with a second vet. If he is still having watery and/or mucousy stool, that could signal more worms. Depending on what type of wormer was used, and if he had a large load of worms, he may need a repeat worming or two before he gets rid of them.

Fecal tests are not always accurate, and things could be missed. He could have a parasite like coccidia or giardia. I'm just throwing out "could haves," and by no means am a vet, so you need to see a vet who will do a more thorough exam, run some other tests, and start looking for a cause instead of just treating symptoms.

Vet! Now! And good luck!


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

I hear ya on the vet running tests instead of treating symptoms. I was amazed that they're taking the symptomatic approach instead of a diagnostic one.

However, they said the risk factors for coccidia and giardia are very low in this particular case, as the other pups in the litter don't have the parasite, and mentioned something about an incubation period. I don't know, I was trying desperately to stop Fritz (the puppy) from doing his royal business on the examining table and lost track of his explanation there for a second.

To me, it makes sense that the problem could be worms. Especially with his extremely playful bouts in the afternoons (and he wolfs down his food during these times).. sick dog's don't act like that (with exceptions, of course). Either that, or he just had a massive stressful episode with the new home and new food, but then surely that would just cause diarrhea, not lethargy? But on the other hand, maybe he doesn't HAVE lethargy and pups are supposed to be sleepy when it's hot (and trust me, it's extremely hot this time of the year, here).

But yes, I'm all out of vets. Seen two and phoned a third, and there are no others in the area.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

Feed him cooked chicken and cooked white rice with some canned pumpkin (no spices). That at least should be easy on his system and help him settle down a bit.

Has he been dewormed at all? 

He's so dang young - I hope it's not from the vaccinations. He shouldn't have been vaccinated until he was at least eight weeks old but it's too late for that now.

So none of the vets will do full testing on a fecal sample for you? None will do ANYTHING? Ugh... that's horrible. 

Is there a vet further away, maybe a specialist or just a really good vet, you could telephone and tell them what's going on so maybe he can help? I know you probably can't drive that far but he's SO young and runny, mucousy runs can run a pup this young down SO fast it's scary.

How much does he weigh? How thin does he seem? Can you easily see his ribs? Is he drinking lots?


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Yeah, I now put him on a temporary diet (well, since last night) of cooked chicken, little bits of plain pasta (apparently that has almost the same effect as the pumpkin), and rice. At least he absolutely loves that mix, whereas he regards the Pedigree kibbles as something beneath his stature 

He's been dewormed on the same date as the vaccinations - 12 January. In other words, when he was about 4 or 5 weeks old, give or take. It's hard to say exactly how old he is, because the shelter found the box of pups on their doorstep the one morning. They then made an estimate and vaccinated/dewormed them on the 12th. But I got him on the 19th, and he seemed perfectly fine between the 12th and 19th.

Someone was kind enough to send me the email address now of a very experienced vet in New Zealand who works with puppies. I'll contact her and see what she says. It's a pity there isn't a specialist nearby though.

I'm not sure what he weighs at the moment (scale isn't working), but he certainly doesn't seem too thin. Can't see his ribs, and he's got a bit of puppy fat on him too. He's drinking regularly (even in his lethargic phases).

(On a sidenote: Is it possible for a dog to have parvo without vomiting, no blood in the stools, and going for 5 days without getting worse? That sure doesn't *sound* like parvo)


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## Luvawolf (Nov 12, 2008)

Yeah, they were too young to be vaccinated for sure. At that age they are still somewhat protected by Mom's first milk, but their immune systems are not developed enough to withstand a bombardment of vaccines. I'm not a proponent of giving multiple vaccines on the same day, or too close together, that's just insane. A lot of vets are entirely too blase about vaccines anyway. Young or sick animals should not be given vaccines!

I have seen the Parvo vaccine cause mild Parvo symptoms, and I hope that's all it is. I applaud you for adopting a shelter dog, and you are obviously very committed. What a lucky dog he is! I hope your baby gets well and you enjoy many happy, healthy years together.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Coccidia *can* come out with stress, like moving to a new home, etc.

It sounds a bit like coccidia, to me. Maybe you might want to consider checking and treating him for it.?


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

txcollies: If I can get these vets so far to actually test for it, we might get somewhere. I'm really amazed at how easy-going they seem to be with other people's pets. It really ticks me off.

Luvawolf: Thanks  The idea of giving a homeless puppy a new home and a chance at life makes it all worthwhile, to me. By the way, his next vaccination is due on 2 February.. should I go through with that one, or is he still too young?


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Sometimes it doesn't show up on the test.

Since we have coccidia out here, if I get a pup with loose stools, I immediately start putting the coccidia meds in it's water, it clears up in 2 days at the max. Coccidia smells funny, once you smell it, you always remember it. ;-)

A bitch I shipped out to be bred came back with it last fall, I immediately started treating her, and it cleared up fast.


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Ahh, that makes sense. I'll get him over there on Monday and demand some meds.

UPDATE: He's been a typical puppy for 24 hours now - playful, with enough naps, drinking regularly, and devouring his food at mealtimes (the bland chicken/rice diet). No lethargy whatsoever anymore. He's getting his Gastropect meds twice a day and the electrolyte-solution every 2 to 3 hours. He had a firm stool last night and early this morning, but it turned watery (and more frequent) again later in the morning. This doesn't seem to affect his attitude any though - he's still a happy-go-lucky fella.

Damn peculiar.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

My vote is for coccidia. I'd be interested in hearing what is is, so keep us posted. 

Overe here, our vets use Albon for coccidia. But it's pricey. I get my stuff way cheaper and it works just as well.

Good luck.


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Coccidia is starting to look like the culprit. I saw a *little* bit of bright-red blood in one of his (loose) stools today. None after that though. And then some things which look like extremely small little white "pebbles". My mind went to tapeworm, but can't be sure. But since the light wasn't good at the time, maybe it's just the texture (combined with my by now paranoid mind), because they were ALL over it, excuse the detail. I took a sample and sealed it to take to the vet next week, though.

Is Monday too late to take him to the vet for coccidia tests? He is still very lively and happy now with no real sign of any discomfort... can coccidia get significantly worse or will 1 day not make a difference? Considering he's been "sick" since Monday morning.

On a lighter note: it's becoming apparent that this is going to be one protective dog when he's grown up. And probably tricky to train  He doesn't shy away from sudden noises but rather barks and storms at it. It's probably a common occurrence, but the first time I've seen it in a pup this young


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

My coccidia cases were always light. I know it can get worse and cause major trouble sometimes, but I've never dealt wtih bad cases of it. 

The constant diarrhea and straining can irriate them and you can sometimes see mucus and maybe a tiny bit of blood occasionally. 

No, I don't think Monday's too late to take him in. I would suggest getting another fecal done and checking for coccidia.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

Here is the link to the site of the most up to date advice on vaccinations by the American Veterinary Association:

https://secure.aahanet.org/eweb/dynamicpage.aspx?site=resources&webcode=CanineVaccineGuidelines

There are charts there as well as a ton of explanation about each vaccine, when it should be given, the minimal vaccination required, etc., etc. I hope this helps!


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## nevenz (Jan 24, 2009)

try asking a vet on www.petaboo.com. its your best bet, they have a free vet service. i asked a question in regards to my boxer dog and got an answer within hours. it helped out a lot. it beats spending hundreds of dollars on a vet, if a visitation is not necessary!


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Thank you so much for all your help so far, guys! I really appreciate it.


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Ah hell. No appetite again today, and lots of lethargy. And that after almost 3 days of happy playfulness and a solid appetite.

Did notice he's scooting his bum on the floor now and then. Could probably either be from the irritation caused by the diarrhea, or possible from tapeworm? Which brings me back to the white "pebbles" he has in his stools (every time) - but they are inanimate, hard, and not flat.

EDIT: Finally got a vet appointment for 8am tomorrow where they'll test for coccidia, worms, etc. I only hope the little bloke makes it through the night - he's gone REALLY down in the last few hours.


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Update as promised:

He was admitted to the animal hospital this morning for a series of tests. He tested negative for coccidia and giardia, but they did find quite a few worm eggs. His red blood cell count was low (probably anemia due to the bloody diarrhea).

They told me that they still suspect Parvo, albeit a mild case or something. The tests for parvo were inconclusive. So they're keeping him on an IV for a couple of days and have started him on antibiotics as well.


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

It does sound like it is Parvo to me. 

They don't all have the same symptoms, and blood does not always show up in the stool, but it is darker with a foul stench to it. There is no cure all you can do is keep them hydrated and hope they get past the worst of it. We had a similar situation last year with a foster dog that was brought into our care. She survived mainly because we jumped on during the early signs of dehydration.


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## Diezel Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Our dog had parvo two days after we brought him home (think the breeder screwed up the vaccine) and he had almost identical symptoms. He stayed in the hospital for 3 days and when he came out, he was as good as new.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Diezel Man said:


> Our dog had parvo two days after we brought him home (think the breeder screwed up the vaccine) and he had almost identical symptoms. He stayed in the hospital for 3 days and when he came out, he was as good as new.


How did the breeder mess up the vaccine?

*shrugs* a good deal of the parvo cases happen in vaccinated puppies. It doesn't work that well.

Glad that your puppy's doing okay. It sounds like a light case of Parvo.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Diezel Man said:


> Our dog had parvo two days after we brought him home (think the breeder screwed up the vaccine) and he had almost identical symptoms. He stayed in the hospital for 3 days and when he came out, he was as good as new.


Parvo is a VIRUS, the vaccine isn't 100% because it mutates very quickly and only cover about 10% of the known strains, very similar to the Flu vaccine in humans. It's entirely possible that the vaccine given just didn't coverthe particular strain of parvo your puppy got.


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Hi again, guys,

The hospital phoned me a few hours ago - they said the pup's doing ALOT better, wagging his tail and eating. He's still on the IV and antibiotics until atleast tomorrow evening.

They found out that the worms he had were hookworms - no wonder he was uncomfortable and had bloody diarrhea. I'm beginning to wonder if that was the problem from the beginning? Can hookworms cause the symptoms I described on page 1, with the "better" phases every now and then?


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## Diezel Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I am sure it is absolutely possible that the breeder did not mess up the vaccine. He was the runt and about half the size of his siblings when I picked him up. My thought originally was that she may have screwed up the dosage since he was so small compared to his siblings. I am not placing blame on anybody, espcially the breeder. 
No matter now, he is a happy little guy now


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

The dosage is the same. You can be a Great Dane, or you can be a teacup Chihuahua, it's all the same.


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## Diezel Man (Jan 27, 2009)

OK. I didn't know that. Like I said, he is fine now though, so all is good and happy. 

Sorry to hi-jack the thread reano. Glad to hear your pup is doing better.


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

No problem Diezel, and likewise - happy your pup's doing okay


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## reano (Jan 23, 2009)

Looks like he's going to be able to come home tomorrow (Thursday) evening. He had a bit of diarrhea again during the night last night, which is why they decided to keep him an extra day to make sure everything's fine. He's off the IV now though, and eating/drinking like a rugby player after a Super14.


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