# Wolf at the dog park (it's an epidemic)



## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

There was a women claiming her dog was a malamute/wolf cross at the dog park today. I was fooled at first but I think he looks pretty close to pure malamute..
What do you guys think?
Here's a few pics and a video of 'Shadow'
(Also, I hope no one takes it the wrong way when my little sister tell's hallie to stay away from him, she just didn't want her dog to get eaten by a big bad wolf! )

































I was suprised the owner was advertising her dog was a wolf since everything in the dog community is tense around her with the oncoming BSL.


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## Carrington (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm not as well educated with "bigger" breeds, so I don't have much to comment about if I think he is or isn't etc.

I just wanted to comment on a few things...Let's say he Is in fact part wolf, I don't know how I feel about people first of all bringing their Wold Mixes to dog parks..I guess it depends on the percentage of Wolf and personality etc. but still. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about people advertising that their dog is a wolf mix. On one side I understand, you just wnat to inform peopel for their own benefit..but on the other hand..if you trust the dog enough to have it there, why start a buzz by bringing up that it's part wolf, ya know?

That's just my opinion..I've never been in the situation, so it's hard to say..but yeah! lol Sorry for adding my 2 cents! haha

Thanks for the video though! Fun to watch!

ps, both of your pups are WAY too cute! My girl Duchess was born ina puppy mill as well 

ps


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## lizalots (Aug 29, 2008)

I think that people just like something to claim. I mean, what sells better on craigslist... "husky mix" or "wolf mix"? Anybody can own a husky, right? But who can own a wolf?? 

We have a TON of 'wolf mixes' at our local dog park. One is actually so inconspicuous that it looks exactly like a malamute mix. Granted, she is a beautiful dog, but I just don't see the wolf.

That dog recently mated (at the park) with another 'wolf mix' and had ten 'super wolf mix' puppies. One female from the litter was given to another girl with a 'wolf mix' that is not fixed in hopes that she herself can start her own 'wolf mix' family. 

I highly doubt any of the dogs are mixed with any wolf. I start to wonder if these people actually know what a wolf looks like. 

Oh yes, here is a young Sierra with that wolf mix.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Carrington said:


> I'm not as well educated with "bigger" breeds, so I don't have much to comment about if I think he is or isn't etc.
> 
> I just wanted to comment on a few things...Let's say he Is in fact part wolf, I don't know how I feel about people first of all bringing their Wold Mixes to dog parks..I guess it depends on the percentage of Wolf and personality etc. but still. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about people advertising that their dog is a wolf mix. On one side I understand, you just wnat to inform peopel for their own benefit..but on the other hand..if you trust the dog enough to have it there, why start a buzz by bringing up that it's part wolf, ya know?
> 
> ...


Yeah from what I've heard about wolfdogs or the pure actual wild animals is they are definitely not dog park material. They are territorial and not the most social creatures. 

Thanks  I love my babies! Yeah puppy mills suck...really hard on the dogs. 




lizalots said:


> I think that people just like something to claim. I mean, what sells better on craigslist... "husky mix" or "wolf mix"? Anybody can own a husky, right? But who can own a wolf??
> 
> We have a TON of 'wolf mixes' at our local dog park. One is actually so inconspicuous that it looks exactly like a malamute mix. Granted, she is a beautiful dog, but I just don't see the wolf.
> 
> ...


Wow! This is the first 'wolf mix' I've actually encountered. There are a ton of adds in the paper advertising for timber wolf/gsd crosses all the time. Aw she's a cute little 'wolf' lol! Definitely see alot of malamute in her. Sierra looks happy to be friends with a wolf! Yeah, this guy looked alot like a malamute too. I just don't see the point in advertising your dog as a wolf especially when there's BSL moving like crazy! All malamute, GSD, pit, staffy, and Akita owners are on high alert around here and then this lady comes in the dog park screaming "Wolf!" like an idoit. Not to mention her dog was avidly humping every dog around!


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

The one you encountered at the dog park is debatable, very possibly low-content (I'm surprised by the length and narrowness of the muzzle, but she looks almost completely Malamute to me otherwise). The one in the picture with a GSD? Absolutely NO wolf in that dog whatsoever. 

You are so right when you say that people need something to claim, and that they get so hung up on believing their animals are wolfdogs that they forget what the real deal looks like... 



> That dog recently mated (at the park) with another 'wolf mix' and had ten 'super wolf mix' puppies. One female from the litter was given to another girl with a 'wolf mix' that is not fixed in hopes that she herself can start her own 'wolf mix' family.


That's really, really sad.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

nekomi said:


> The one you encountered at the dog park is debatable, very possibly low-content (I'm surprised by the length and narrowness of the muzzle, but she looks almost completely Malamute to me otherwise). The one in the picture with a GSD? Absolutely NO wolf in that dog whatsoever.
> 
> You are so right when you say that people need something to claim, and that they get so hung up on believing their animals are wolfdogs that they forget what the real deal looks like...
> 
> ...


Wow! I thought the face looked wolfish but then I looked at a few malamutes and he looked alot like them. He was a good behaving boy except for the humping. She didn't say where she got him or what type of wolf was in him she also had a shiba/chow mix. He was huge! Definitely malamute sized.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Yeah, it's very hard to say. The muzzle really is throwing me off, but it could also be the angle of the pics. Malamutes, at least the ones I have seen, have much blockier and shorter muzzles generally. But that dog could have been a mix of other things, not necessarily wolf. Hard to peg that one, if anything it would be very very low content.

EDIT: I went back and watched the video you posted - in the video he looks MUCH more Malamute to me. Movement, body language, everything says "Mal", not "wolf".


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## Sloth (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't know if it really is part wolf or not, but if I had a dog that looked like that, I'd go around telling everyone it's part wolf, too.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Seeing as how 95% of the time, a wolf will EAT a dog if they ever meet one, I wouldn't want any wolf/dog hybrid running free in a dog park.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

I'm no expert but I own a Husky and her face/muzzle doesn't look ANYTHING like that... Thats the only part that strikes me as "wolfish".


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

> Seeing as how 95% of the time, a wolf will EAT a dog if they ever meet one


Where is the evidence for this, I would like to see some.


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## AmyBeth (Jun 26, 2009)

he looks malamute to me except for the face, but that can easly be a mix with another dog breed or he could just be a mal with a long narrow muzzle.

We had a malamute when I was little but thinking back on it he could have been a wolf hybrid. He didn't have fluffy hair like a mal it was rather flat and corse. But he was also extremely territorial, he killed several cats and a few small dogs and had even threatened to bite me a couple of times and once he actually did. After my dad left my mom couldn't handle him and took him to the pound. But he really did not need to be around people or other animals.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Pepper said:


> Where is the evidence for this, I would like to see some.


Um, it happens all the time. In the wild, wolves see dogs as food or nuisances. They don't treat them like equals or potential mates in a normal situation, they kill them most of the time.

Google is your friend. It is documented in many different books, as well. Also, in areas like Alaska, it is a common news story. If you still doubt it, just do some research on it, it's not hard to verify.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

Pai is correct. Wolves hunt domesticated dogs. They have a female approach the outskirts of a neighborhood and leave pheromones. The male dogs in the area FREAK OUT and will almost knock a fence down to get to the scent. Once the dogs get out the female wolf leads them into an ambush of 4 or 5 males. They aren't seen as equals they're seen as prey.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> Seeing as how 95% of the time, a wolf will EAT a dog if they ever meet one, I wouldn't want any wolf/dog hybrid running free in a dog park.


True or not... HUNGRY wolf in the wild, encountering unsupervised dog, does not equal socialized, well-fed wolfdog in a dog park under supervision.

I have met dozens of wolfdogs (from low-content, to nearly pure wolf), and not a single one of them wanted to eat "regular" dogs.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

Lets clarify if we're talking about wolves or wolf-hybrids because there are big differences...and yes I've seen well-fed hybrids attack and kill smaller dogs and cats._But thats not to say that with the right training and supervision they wouldn't do this._


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

It's all about the socialization. When exposed to cats and small dogs at a young age and raised with them, the chances of this happening go down significantly. Same as with any typically prey-driven dog. Not to say it CAN'T happen, just that with proper socializing the chances are slim. I'm not necessarily advocating wolfdogs being at a dog park - but it's silly to think that because a wild hungry wolf would attack or eat a dog, that an owned wolfdog would do the same, at a dog park nonetheless.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

well put...I think 95% of it is up to the owner socializing the animal and keeping them well-balanced.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

To me, that's a wolf dog mix. I only say that becasue I went to an Indian Reservation and they had two wolves with them, one was pure and the other was mixed with a malamute. He looked exactly like the one in your video/pictures except a bit bigger. 

I think wolf mixes are cool and wolves are too as they're my favorite wild animal, and I think I would like to be informed if one was just because you hear different things about them and would want to watch over your own dog just in case. 

Nice pictures by the way.


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## AnimalCrazy20 (Jul 15, 2009)

To me it does look like a wolf mix, as I've known people who've had them. The nose is a bit more narrower than that of the Malamute breed and also her marking look like that of a wolf. I know, Malamutes and Huskies of wolf like markings and colorings but this one looks a little different.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

the one in the vid?

maybe. but considering both the behavior of the animal and considering the fact that most "wolfdog breeders" lie through their teeth about wolf content(a fact which makes me _extremely_ skeptical about claims to wolf content) I lean more towards a no than a yes in that maybe. 

the one in the pic with the gsd...no.

and I don't think a responsible wolfdog owner would be taking their animal to the dogpark. I wonder if this person even knows whether or not they are illegal to own in their area.

imo taking a wolfdog to a dog park is the same as taking a pit bull to a dog park...if something bad happens and the wolfdog is involved in any fashion...the wolfdog will likely get the blame whether it actually did anything or not. 

the idea of responsible ownership of animals like pits and wolfdogs..animals that are under fire so to speak...is to NOT put them in situations that can go wrong.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Agreed 100% with you Zim!


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## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

These dogs do resemble wolves...but if you look closely, Malumutes & Huskies are not wolves.

People shouldn't label their beloved pets as wolves....really, what are they gaining by telling people that they are wolves? 

My Husky is the friendliest dog ever and I get upset when people see me walking him and walk the other way, or look frightened, or little children scream & run away.....maybe it's because people want to label their dogs as scary and word has gotten around.

Look again....I don't think he looks like a wolf. But people believe what they want to.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

Just yesterday I was walking Nico (Husky) through the neighborhood and I passed a house with a few women in the front yard. Now Nico's probably the most unimposing dog out there...she's very happy,silly,sweet and just wiggles her butt as she walks....NOT a scary/aggressive dog in any way. We walked by the yard (probably 10 feet away from the people) and she isnt even interested in them but as soon as one of the women spots her she _literally_ yelled "Oh my God! It's like a werewolf or something!" and they all 3 ran inside. I was amazed... I dont want people being fearful of my dog in any way. If she ever got out I feel that people like this would rather hurt her(to defend themselves) than help her. The last stigma that I would want to put on my dog is that shes a wolf or dangerous in any way.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

The muzzle on the "wolfdog" is narrow enough to throw me off as well, but it's not something I've never seen before while I was in the Husky rescue. Females can have such narrow muzzles sometimes. It would not be common though.

Not that it debunks her being a wolfdog or anything, it's a idiotic label just the same.


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## JediRach (Jul 8, 2009)

I think he looks like a wolf mix. Malamutes tend to have a broader head and muzzle. The coloring is off for a husky. I would dare to say that dog park dog looks like it could very well be part wolf....


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

He was actually a really laid back guy. His owner said he was 2 I think, he was HUGE. I mean he was pretty big but I might be used to huskies, he was really lean and not really that intrested in the other dogs. Wasn't really affectionate, I mean he wasn't the 'walk up to you wagging his tail' kind of dog. What suprised me was he was very bonded to his owner, she went to her car for a second and he paced back and forth across the fence watching her. When she got back he resumed to swimming and prancing around! He strikes me as very malamut-ish except for the facial structure. Very beautiful dog though, he had stunning brown eyes.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

I think before calling a dog a wolf mix, you need to know A TON about wolves and all the dimensions of their skeletal structure, etc...just because it looks like a wolf, doesn't mean it has some wolf in it. Like Nekomi has a experience with real wolf dogs, and can pretty quickly tell the difference between a real wolf dog and a fake wolf dog.

There's a lot of people here who have wolf mixes, and you can tell the difference between a real wolf/dog and someone just claiming their dog has wolf in him. It happens too much up here and a lot of the dogs are really high content wolf, and some of them are really stand offish and nasty, while others love most everything.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Just because a husky or malamute has a more 'wild' looking coat, doesn't make them a wolfdog. People don't seem to realize that they come in a huge variety of coat patterns.

The woofer in the video looks like a malamute to me. If there is any wolf in him, it's probably a low percentage. He's very fluffy and stocky looking; wolves are much more narrow and tall.

A low percentage wolfdog, with proper socialization, is not much different from a husky or malamute. I probably wouldn't risk bringing a wolfdog to a dog park -- not because I think they're dangerous, but because of the general fear and stigma they have. I wouldn't want another dog to start something, and then have the wolfdog take all the heat.

Oh and also, a socialized wolfdog -- even a high content -- won't eat a dog. Wolves in the wild may attack pets, but a socialized wolfdog will interact with a domestic dog the same way any dog would. Of course, one must be cautious when introducing new dogs -- but that goes without saying!

The wolfdog rescue I volunteer for requires adopters to have at least one dog already, because the wolfdogs tend to bond to their canine companion. Of course, they also require the dogs to meet and make sure they get along, first.

People sometimes forget that wolves and dogs are both Canis Lupis. Dogs are a domesticated sub-species.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

steveamberruckman said:


> First of all, have you even seen a malamute? The dog in question looks nothing like one!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I have seen a malamute. Actually I've seen quite a few that resemble the dog in the video. Malamutes can vary and as Jess mentioned the guy in the video was pretty wide and stocky. Can't say I've ever seen a definite wolf hybrid, but I can say I've been around a few malamutes! I've seen malamutes that looked just like shadow though he does have a more narrow muzzle and his coat is a bit different. That doesn't mean he's a wolf hybrid though. He may very well be but from what I've heard and seen it's a very very low percentage if any.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Well technically I don't think taking your dog to the dog park is a right LOL


I don't take my APBT


I really don't like the thought of wolf dogs at all......why mess with something that isn't broken?.....Wolves are beautiful.....dogs are awesome...just leave it at that


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

pugmom said:


> I really don't like the thought of wolf dogs at all......why mess with something that isn't broken?.....Wolves are beautiful.....dogs are awesome...just leave it at that


I don't think anyone on here condones the breeding of wolfdogs. No reputable breeder would do it, so they more than likely come from back-yard breeders. Which is just another reason why people should stop buying them. But, the problem is, people do breed them. And idiots buy them, then toss them into shelters when they realize they can't handle them. Lovely organizations like Howling Woods Farm and lovely people like Nekomi are kind enough to rescue these beautiful animals. But I agree, they shouldn't be bred in the first place.


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## MelissaPenguin (Sep 5, 2009)

You'd probably be suprised, a lot of larger breeds do have wolf in them, but people don't realize it's not enough to really make a difference.

A wolf with enough wolf in it would take years of one on one training to be able to go to a dog park.

I have a "wolf hybrid" that also has coyote in it. And most people wouldn't even care to mention the coyote, because wolves are so much "cooler." A real wolf does NOT make a good pet. They take way more responsibility than any other dog breed, and 99% of people don't realize that.



steveamberruckman said:


> First of all, have you even seen a malamute? The dog in question looks nothing like one!
> 
> 
> 
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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

steveamberruckman said:


> Any animal bred into a domesticated life is going to be more domestic. Just like the ones in the zoo, not the best analogy, but it's true. Yes, the content is not a great deal in most "wolfdogs" but that is why they mate them with other dogs like huskies and malamutes, because a purebred wolf would be too much to handle, I completely agree with that statement. I never tried to pass mine off as purebred. But as for all these people with their thumbs up their butts saying it's not right, and people shouldn't breed wolfs with dogs, blah blah blah, they can't handle them so they get rid of them blah blah blah, go to your local shelter and see how many dogs that are there that have no wolf in them, there are tons. It is not only wolfdogs people take to the shelter. It's easy for people who have never been around dogs with wolf bred into them to pass judgements on the dogs and their owners, but they are just ignorant.


ignorant of what?

you prove the point that people don't need to be breeding wolf dogs...because the shelters are full of regular dogs that they could not handle!! .....

I'm sure there is a few good reasons the right people are mixing dogs and wolves......maybe in the right hands, with the right knowledge ....for the general public...No thanks

I'm not sure why you find it so offensive that people think its wrong to breed and sell these animals to who ever just to make a buck


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## Northern_Inuit_Luv (Aug 26, 2009)

I hate when that happens. We often have people rushing their kids across the street when we are on walks with my husky or my Lupa. I don't know why anyone would want to buy a wolfdog/hybrid when there are so many DOG breeds that look like wolves, and yet are NOT part wild animal. Almost anything with a narrow face and pointy ears will get the "is your dog part wolf?" question at the dog park, and I am always happy to say "no, that would be irresponsible and dangerous, don't you think?" (that's my opinion, anyway)

Really, though, all those people are teaching their kids is that dogs are something to fear...





nico8 said:


> Just yesterday I was walking Nico (Husky) through the neighborhood and I passed a house with a few women in the front yard. Now Nico's probably the most unimposing dog out there...she's very happy,silly,sweet and just wiggles her butt as she walks....NOT a scary/aggressive dog in any way. We walked by the yard (probably 10 feet away from the people) and she isnt even interested in them but as soon as one of the women spots her she _literally_ yelled "Oh my God! It's like a werewolf or something!" and they all 3 ran inside. I was amazed... I dont want people being fearful of my dog in any way. If she ever got out I feel that people like this would rather hurt her(to defend themselves) than help her. The last stigma that I would want to put on my dog is that shes a wolf or dangerous in any way.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

steveamberruckman said:


> Ignorant of what it is like to have a dog with wolf bred into it. Anyone is perfectly capable of raising a "wolfdog" with the right knowledge. People raise german shepards and pit bulls that are supposedly more vicious, is that wrong? I have heard many more stories of people being attacked by those breeds than by any "wolf hybrid". And how is that proving a point because the shelters are full of other breeds? That doesn't prove any point except that too many people get dogs when they really shouldn't. Just like people have kids when they really shouldn't and what happens to them? Same thing, they get put up for adoption or killed by abortion. Everyone thinks just because you have a wolf mix that they are going to attack someone or another animal. And for that people are ignorant as well, because unless you have had a wolf mix you don't know that they are the most loyal pet to have, because to them, you are part of their pack. And why do you think people breed pugs, or boston terriers, for the fun of it? No! For a buck, so stop being hypocrytical. I am not offended, just opinionated.


I strongly disagree that anyone is capable of raising a wolf dog. In fact the few reputable people that breed wolf hybrids don't recommend them for just anyone. They are much different than the average dog. You're trying to say that pit bulls and german shepherds are more vicious than wolf hybrids, that's ridiculous. And you say we're ignorant? Wolf hybrids have different needs than the average dog and the average owner isn't equipped to handle them. For example, very high fences are needed to contain a wolf hybrid (8-10ft) the average owner isn't prepared to do even that. You're dog if a hybrid at all I would guess is very low content. He looks like a husky mix to me.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

steveamberruckman said:


> Oh yeah? Are you an expert miss high and mighty? LOL. And yes, I DO think you are ignorant. Because I do have a wolf hybrid, so what if the content is low, that's what makes her a better pet. I wouldn't want a high content hybrid because they are next to impossible to train. She looks husky because she is part husky, but how am I to argue with you the expert? And for your info, I was referring to german shepards and pit bulls as more vicious than other breeds, not more than wolf hybrids. Any dog can be vicious if the wrong person is raising them. Do you have first hand experience raising either a high or low content hybrid?


I won't argue with someone too ignorant to even consider another persons view points.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Your dog looks an awful lot like a wolf grey husky cross... I've seen mixed breed DOGS that look exactly like that.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

upendi'smommy said:


> I won't argue with someone too ignorant to even consider another persons view points.




I agree.......calling people names  great way to help people understand your point



steveamberruckman said:


> Ignorant of what it is like to have a dog with wolf bred into it. Anyone is perfectly capable of raising a "wolfdog" with the right knowledge. People raise german shepards and pit bulls that are supposedly more vicious, is that wrong? I have heard many more stories of people being attacked by those breeds than by any "wolf hybrid". And how is that proving a point because the shelters are full of other breeds? That doesn't prove any point except that too many people get dogs when they really shouldn't. Just like people have kids when they really shouldn't and what happens to them? Same thing, they get put up for adoption or killed by abortion. Everyone thinks just because you have a wolf mix that they are going to attack someone or another animal. And for that people are ignorant as well, because unless you have had a wolf mix you don't know that they are the most loyal pet to have, because to them, you are part of their pack. And why do you think people breed pugs, or boston terriers, for the fun of it? No! For a buck, so stop being hypocrytical. I am not offended, just opinionated.



Actually my breeder makes very little money ...after showing , health testing, vetting, and Travel costs

and Yes I assume breeding is fun/enjoyable for her

So I don't see where you get hypocritical?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

steveamberruckman

you make some pretty brooad and non relevant generalizations about wolfdogs yourself.

genetic variability is a wacky thing. just because an animal is low content doesn't mean it won't behave like a wolf. and a high content can act just like a dog. it depends on what exact specific genes the animal received from which genetic predecessor. and before you start shooting your mouth off I've been around both pure wolves and wolfdogs of various content. 


and pit bulls are no more vicious than any other dog. that's another bs generalization.


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> steveamberruckman
> 
> you make some pretty brooad and non relevant generalizations about wolfdogs yourself.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I haven't read anything past where my post is here, but I just wanted to point out that a co-worker of mine loves animals. She has horses, pigs, chickens, cats, and yes--dogs! Her newest one is a wolf hybrid mix because she loves wolves so much I guess she went there.

I just wanted to point out that I know she'll train this dog well that it won't hurt anyone. I heard long ago that wolf dogs were wary and might be dangerous, well I was proven wrong thankfully.

And yes, any dog can be vicious if trained to be. Or some can just snap, not just the hybrids like wolf dogs or coydogs (coyote/dog mix). That is all.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

> If pit bulls are not more vicious, then why are they the ones people train for dog fights?


Pit Bulls and ALL TERRIERS are genetically predisposed to being dog-aggressive. What this has to do with viciousness, I am not sure, as the vast majority of these dogs live in houses, with people, with absolutely no incident. Dog aggression and human aggression are two separate things. I think maybe you need to know your subject matter before you start making such gross generalities.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

alright...let's hit up the experts shall we?



> A wolfdog, any animal, will be the product of its parents. However, genetics will result in a certain amount of variation around a given norm. A hybrid's pedigree is nothing more than a probability figure as to what can be expected. It is not an accurate assessment of how an individual will turn out, but is a general guideline. However, a hybrid out of a pure wolf should be considered more difficult to work with. Most "first generation" animals are generally less suited as a good pet by most people's standards and expectations. These "poorer pet-quality" animals often do not "work out," for such hybrids generally exceed the ability of most people to socialize, contain, and generally provide a safe home. The same can be said of hybrids whose pedigrees indicate a wolf-content somewhere above 50% wolf. This is of course assuming that the pedigree is accurate and does not misrepresent the wolf-content. Although percentages are nothing more than a general guideline, they will be used for the sake of simplicity in descriptions of animals in this presentation.


SOURCE



as for pit bulls. they are by far not the only breed used in dogfighting. nor are pit bulls a breed that was bred solely for dogfighting.

the reason pits have been used in dogfighting is not because of their visciousness...its because of their stamina, determination and *willingness to please their master at any cost*.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> alright...let's hit up the experts shall we?
> 
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> 
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 Thank you! I've tried explaining to a ton of people over and over again that pitbulls aren't good dogs to fight because of any aggressive nature but rather admirable qualities that are clearly being taken advantage as far as fighting goes. 
That was a bit off topic, now back to on topic. 

steveamberruckman, I'm afraid no one is attacking you and you are coming off very rude. I started this thread a loooong time ago so I'm quite curious to how you found it. It was pretty far back there and difficult to find unless you specifically searched for it. Your first comment was "Have you ever even seen a malamute?" Which I found a bit offensive. This thread took a really unexpected turn


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Hallie you know if you need any info or sources on pits all ya gots ta do is drop me, spicy, pugmom, darkmoon or any other the other pit people a pm.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

I can't bring myself to waste anymore time on this......{head/brick wall}


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## PittiLove29 (Apr 3, 2009)

> and pit bulls are no more vicious than any other dog. that's another bs generalization.





> Thank you!


x2
I REALLY wish people bothered knowing what they're talking about before they start spouting out ignorant/uneducated media hyped up BS about "dangerous" dogs. I say if you want to say ANYTHING (good or bad) about them you'd better have something to back it up. 
So, all those people who think they can identify a wolf/wolf hybrid.....What about this one?


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm going to say that's a wolf mix only because the ears and eyes look it. Her face looks a lot like Tiffany's, who was a wolf mix, at our kennel. Where's that dog's tail though? Is it docked?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

the animal pictured has some phenotypic traits characteristic of wolves. but none definative characteristics. without knowing the animal's behavioral characteristics(which would allow me to guess better...wolf content is best assessed on a combination of behavior and phenotype) i would guess at zero wolf content to low content hybrid...though that guess might change if i could see the animal's behavior

edit...do you have a profile shot? i cant tell because the view of the face is dead front and center....but after looking again..depending on what the profile is i might change my answer..


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## PittiLove29 (Apr 3, 2009)

> Where's that dog's tail though? Is it docked?


It's there. It's just at a weird angle. You are right. It is a wolf hybrid. My boyfriend had a wolf follow him home from school and he wouldn't leave. He mated with their husky and this is one of the many litters from those breedings. I don't agree with it at all and my boyfriend's mother is very irresponsible with animals (I don't think she's ever been into a veterinary office), but yes it is a wolf hybrid.


> do you have a profile shot? i cant tell because the view of the face is dead front and center....but after looking again..depending on what the profile is i might change my answer..


Unfortunately that is the only digital picture I have and unfortunately my scanner isn't working. As far as behavior they are all the same. The wolves and their mix pups are only socialized with each other. If a cat gets in the yard it's dead. If a normal dog gets into the yard it's dead. They have a very big pack mentality and any new people or animals are unwelcome. They can be introduced to new people and accept them over time, but so far no luck with any new animals that aren't their own blood.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> You are right. It is a wolf hybrid. My boyfriend had a wolf follow him home from school and he wouldn't leave.


I find it really hard to believe that what followed your BF home was a PURE wolf. May have been a hybrid, but based on classic wolf behavior (timid, skittish, afraid of strangers), and the pic of that pup, I can almost guarantee it was not a pure wolf. That would make that puppy F1 50%, which seems very far-fetched based on that photo alone... the animal in the pic looks low-content to me at best. Maybe he is one of the less-wolfy looking pups but I'd want to see the rest of the litter before making a real guess at their content level.



> As far as behavior they are all the same. The wolves and their mix pups are only socialized with each other. If a cat gets in the yard it's dead. If a normal dog gets into the yard it's dead. They have a very big pack mentality and any new people or animals are unwelcome. They can be introduced to new people and accept them over time, but so far no luck with any new animals that aren't their own blood.


That isn't necessarily wolf behavior, sounds like a huge lack of socialization to me. Yes, wolves are territorial and pack-oriented, but so are many dogs. When socialized to cats, other dogs, and people, a wolfdog may still act wary but shouldn't be a killer and won't make strange people feel unwelcome. Also, if they are just living in a huge pack-mob, I'm not surprised that these kinds of things happen... happens with domestic dogs too. I'm just saying that these behaviors do not necessarily prove the animals in question are wolfdogs.

Case in point, I have a friend who owns three very high-percentage wolfdogs (really they are so close to pure that they should just be referred to as wolves). When I first met her pack, her very well-socialized boy was curious, but wary of me. Within 20 minutes he was asking for back scratches, giving me wolf kisses and following me around like a big puppy. To me, that is typical behavior for a well-socialized wolfdog... key being well-socialized. You can't completely remove that instinct to be cautious and wary (why it took 20 minutes to touch this fellow), but you can give the animal confidence in new situations through solid socialization.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Yes, it sounds hard to believe to me too. A lot of people have the idea that pack mentality, killing other dogs or cats = wolf behaviors. That's not so. Put two puppies out in the backyard, with no socialization, and they will react the same to other dogs and cats. 

The reason that wolf dogs may have the trend of being aggressive to other dogs or animals, or even humans, is because idiots breed them. Idiots don't know how to socialize dogs. So these idiots make dog aggressive and human aggressive dogs through their own idiocy. That does not make the dogs a wolf.

The pictured dog looks like a malamute to me. Zero wolf whatsoever.



> The wolves and their mix pups are only socialized with each other.


Missed this sentence. That's a brain-dead giveaway of their lack of socialization. If you did that with dogs, they would behave the same way as your malamute/husky, 0% wolf content, mutts.


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## PittiLove29 (Apr 3, 2009)

> I find it really hard to believe that what followed your BF home was a PURE wolf.


There's no way to tell. It probably was a hybrid. I just told it how my boyfriend told it to me. 


> That would make that puppy F1 50%, which seems very far-fetched based on that photo alone... the animal in the pic looks low-content to me at best.


Probably is low content since the "wolf" followed him home when he was in grade school. He's now 35 and that pic was taken about 5-6 years ago.


> I'm just saying that these behaviors do not necessarily prove the animals in question are wolfdogs.





> Yes, it sounds hard to believe to me too. A lot of people have the idea that pack mentality, killing other dogs or cats = wolf behaviors. That's not so. Put two puppies out in the backyard, with no socialization, and they will react the same to other dogs and cats.


I didn't say it did. I was asked about their behavior, so I told you all.


> The pictured dog looks like a malamute to me.


That is an average sized 5 year old boy he's standing over. Little too small to be a mal. And they're not very common in the desert.

My whole point to posting the picture was to find out what others thought. I've never 100% believed my boyfriend on the subject and wanted others' opinions. From the other pictures I've seen I believe the dogs may have SOME wolf in them, but I'm with you guys on the pure wolf following him home. Not gonna happen.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

PittiLove29 said:


> That is an average sized 5 year old boy he's standing over. Little too small to be a mal. And they're not very common in the desert.


I really can't recall how big a 5 year old boy is. I assumed that was a 10 year old boy. It is rather large for a Husky. It could just be fat too, or maybe he has longer hair than most. Nevertheless I don't see any wolf whatsoever in him. There have been many "wolf dog" photos that strike me as being "different" than a Husky or a Malamute, and those tend to be Husky/German Shepherd mixes. But that dog strikes me as Husky or malamute through and through. I would not even do a double take here. I can probably find a couple photos of Huskies at the rescue I was at that look identical to this dog.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm just stating here, but that doesn't look like a Malamute what-so-ever. You can see from the face that it's not. Okay that's my two cents.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Looks like a lot like a Husky/GSD mix to me....just my .02


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## Miss Hazzard (Dec 8, 2009)

I actually just joined this site to express my shock at a large majority of the people posting on this thread. To start off, OF COURSE the animal in the first photo is part wolf! Anyone who has ANY experience or knowledge of wolves or dogs in general should be able to pick out the tell tale signs. Also, OF COURSE it is not going to appear exactly like a googled image of a wolf. It is a mix people! In addition, there are at least 6 sub species of wolves in North America alone. Because of extreme variabilities in their appearance, some scientists believe there are as many as 32 sub species in just the North American Gray Wolf. Also most people should note that if you mix two breeds together and compare the offspring, they will often look very different from each other. Sometimes you will get a pup that shows more traits of one parent and sometimes the traits of the other. I have some good friends who have 2 wolf husky mixes. They are brother and sister, one looks pure wolf, the other looks more like a classic husky.
As far as being concerned about a wolf hybrid in the dog park, I see no reason to be more alarmed about it than any other large breed that CAN show aggressive traits. A responsible owner will be sure their pet is well socialized before bringing a dog into a dog park, whether it be a wolf, pit, rottie or anything else. I have seen a poodle (standard) attack a dog in a dog park before. Does that mean you should tremor at the site of a poodle entering the dog park? Of course not! I have seen 4 pit attacks in dog parks over the last decade. Does that mean they are vicious dogs? NO! It means there are a higher percentage of owners who are irresponsible in pits, many people only wanting them to add to there tough image. Like any large breed with aggressive tendencies they need extra care to training and socialization.
I own a dog that is 1/2 Black German Shepherd 1/4 rot and 1/4 wolf. I took great care in his training and socialization. Zeus loves other animals and LOVES the dog park. He has been in one fight EVER, when a boxer pit mix jumped a fence and attacked us while on a run. (this event did not change the way I feel towards boxers or pits, if care is shown in upbringing they are great breeds) My dog loves small animals (not for dinner!) His best friend for 2 years was a pet duck. He has shown love and care to cats, birds, even chinchillas. Little side note, my dog actually appears to many people to be a lab mix. Short black hair, wide head and large body. They are usually shocked to find his real breeding (I am sure of his breeding as I knew the people and have seen future pups out of the same parents.)It shows you that you can not always tell just by looking at a mix, what the breed is.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

This is the thread that will never die.

Oh, and you're wrong Miss Hazzard. Sorry to disappoint.


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## Maarfly (Dec 8, 2009)

Over here (England) we would do DNA testing, but we are not allowed to mix wolves with dogs anyway. We have a few crosses that look like this but they are what some people call Huskamutes - obviously Malamute/Husky. There are plenty of nasty dogs here but they don't have wolf in them, just bad owners usually.


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## beccahacom (Dec 9, 2009)

me too.. I have two huskies and one of them is red/brown and definetly not wold however, i get asked all the time if he is wolf.


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

The dog in the original post is almost identical to a Mal/GSD cross who comes to my dog park from time to time. eems more probable to me, but if the owner wants to clain she has a wolf mix, good for her. As long as the dog is sociable and not a danger to others, he should be allowed at the local dog park.


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## xprojectx63x (Jan 26, 2010)

when my dog was a puppy i used to take him to the park then he got around a year old and he started being really protective of me not letting any dogs in between him and i. he also felt the need to make him self dominate over other dogs but marking territory then kicking the dirt all around. he also went around everywhere with the hair on his back standing up. after i noticed that. i stopped talking him to the park for the fact i didnt want him or any other dog or person hurt over my dog. he is perfectly fine with people or even a couple but when crowds get around him he gets really skiddish and nervous. so when someone wants to pet him i say be careful don't make sudden movements and one at a time.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

That sounds like a poorly socialized dog.

A lot of people can't tell the difference between a wolfy looking malamute and a wolf. It would not come as a surprise to me if that's the case with the breeder.


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## alomb1971 (Jan 24, 2010)

I saw this one at the beach in NJ. I had a post about my dog getting spooked and bolting.(I am working on this issue) My dog saw it and wouldn't even go close to it. He was spooked. It howled and my dog bolted. This is a strange for my dog. He's been socialized from a pup and runs up to all dogs or people. The owner claimed it was a Hybrid wolf. This was a picture of him. He's ALOT bigger than the picture shows. I am not sure if it's part wolf or not, but dog seemed to think so. This is one of the places in NJ that speacilizes in rescues and info.

http://www.howlingwoods.org/


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> when my dog was a puppy i used to take him to the park then he got around a year old and he started being really protective of me not letting any dogs in between him and i. he also felt the need to make him self dominate over other dogs but marking territory then kicking the dirt all around. he also went around everywhere with the hair on his back standing up. after i noticed that. i stopped talking him to the park for the fact i didnt want him or any other dog or person hurt over my dog. he is perfectly fine with people or even a couple but when crowds get around him he gets really skiddish and nervous. so when someone wants to pet him i say be careful don't make sudden movements and one at a time.


This is just an undersocialized dog. These traits definitely don't point towards "wolfdog" any more than anything else. Although I do think your guy may be low-content, the problems you're having are experienced by many dog owners. 



> I saw this one at the beach in NJ. I had a post about my dog getting spooked and bolting.(I am working on this issue) My dog saw it and wouldn't even go close to it. He was spooked. It howled and my dog bolted. This is a strange for my dog. He's been socialized from a pup and runs up to all dogs or people. The owner claimed it was a Hybrid wolf. This was a picture of him. He's ALOT bigger than the picture shows. I am not sure if it's part wolf or not, but dog seemed to think so. This is one of the places in NJ that speacilizes in rescues and info.


Absolutely NOT a hybrid. That's a Malamute. I see no wolf in that dog. Everything from coat, to face structure, to tail, to feet, screams "Malamute".

Why do people assume that "regular dogs" run away from wolfdogs? My dogs socialize with my wolfdog Jasper. Many other folks have packs with regular dogs and wolfdogs living peacefully. I know someone who took their nearly pure wolfdog (the real deal) to the dog park, and videoed it. The wolfdog spent the entire time trying to chin-lick and submit to a black lab. Nevermind that he was twice this dog's size, he was following this dog in a crouch, ears flat, lips licking and trying to roll over on his back. Once in awhile they'd play chase too.


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## alomb1971 (Jan 24, 2010)

Perhaps you are right the dog in the picture might be a malamute, but the owner believes he has a hybrid. Maybe it's a Malamute/wolf hybrid.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> Perhaps you are right the dog in the picture might be a malamute, but the owner believes he has a hybrid. Maybe it's a Malamute/wolf hybrid.


I truly see no wolf in that dog. It looks like a pure Malamute. Muzzle and forehead look broad. Legs are short, body is stocky, feet are compact and catlike, unlike wolf and wolfdog feet which are larger and tend towards a splayed shape. Coat looks silky and fine as opposed to coarse, wiry guard hairs on wolfdogs. Facial markings are too well-defined for a wolfdog, which will have more blended markings. Facial mask has the classic Malamute shape. Malamutes howl too, it's not just wolfdogs. 

The sad fact of the matter is that 99% of the folks who BELIEVE they have a wolfdog, DON'T. The vast majority of "wolfdog" breeders are selling Northern breed dogs and passing them off as wolfdogs to unknowing buyers.

THIS is a Malamute/wolf hybrid. See how narrow and angulated the features are, and how long the legs are? See the size and shape of the feet?


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

And another Malamute/wolf. This one with less wolf than the above pics.


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## xprojectx63x (Jan 26, 2010)

i dont know how he would be under socialized because of the fact he grew up with my friends dogs who were also hybrids and i have 2 other dogs at home and i walk him every day where of course people stop and wanna pet him. would bringing a female high content wolf puppy into my home cause any problems i am going to look to breed them but NOT until her 3rd heat is over.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> i dont know how he would be under socialized because of the fact he grew up with my friends dogs who were also hybrids and i have 2 other dogs at home and i walk him every day where of course people stop and wanna pet him. would bringing a female high content wolf puppy into my home cause any problems i am going to look to breed them but NOT until her 3rd heat is over.


It would DEFINITELY cause problems. Get your current dog under control before you consider a high-content. What about proper outdoor containment? Are you aware that high-contents usually cannot live in a home (they rarely housebreak, pace constantly and are highly destructive, not to mention they will challenge you for rank and are escape artists). 

Also, are you aware of what a high-content wolfdog is like during her heat? Unapproachable, snarly, and possibly dangerous are nice ways of putting it. Have you researched "winter wolf syndrome"?

Breeding an animal of UNKNOWN content (your boy) is just a horrible idea. In fact, breeding ANY hybrids right now is a bad idea. There are way, way too many in the rescue system. Do you even know how to properly imprint high-content pups, how to bottle-feed and how to screen potential owners?

Get educated about wolfdogs, get educated about the numbers of homeless wolfdogs in rescue, get your boy's issues resolved, get him neutered, put up a proper containment and then, maybe, you can talk high-content. Certainly not now, and certainly not for breeding. You and the animal won't be happy.

Sorry to be harsh, but high-contents are a WHOLE 'nother ballgame and should never be entered into lightly. If you can't even properly phenotype your own animal you are not ready for a high-content.


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## xprojectx63x (Jan 26, 2010)

well actually i have owned a male high content previously i live on 25 acres in Fresno California which around my house i have 15ft fences. ive dealt with one in the past because my best friends breed them. and i bottle fed my dog i currently have


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## ruckusluvr (Sep 20, 2009)

some wolf mixes do not look like wolf. I know 100% for sure that my dad has a half wolf/half chow chow. I know the dogs parents and breeder.
(no i do not support breeding these dogs. he is a neighbor)
she actually does not look like a wolf, or chow at all!


Luna


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