# Aggressive Rough Coat collie should i shave



## Bossybruce (May 31, 2009)

Oh here is the deal.(i live in NC) My dog Rosco is a Tricolor rough coat collie. Since the day we have got him 12 weeks old he has been very aggressive about combing, brushing, anything of the sort especially around the private area. Well my dilemma is this. he spends 75% of the day inside. he is out side from 10am till 2pm while I am at work. To brush him it take 3 off us one to brush and 2 to hold and that is with a muzzle on. He has never bitten me but he puts his mouth around my arm-hand and holds me VERY tight. So needless to say his fur is everywhere. I am very seriously thinking about doing what I call a shave down. Taking him to a groomer and having them cut all but about 4 inches off of everything. I looked on the Internet and there is the yes's and the no's some say his fur will never grow back. some say it will if he is healthy. i really dont know what to do beside just walk around every day looking like i rolled in a bag of fur. please some one with experience with this tell me what you have done and your results


Thanks abunch
Furry


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

Honestly if it takes 3 people to hold him down to brush him, how do you think a groomer will manage? A groomer will put their saftey first. I doubt they would even finish him. We had a very very mad cat come in for a shave down, The cat got its back down and was it, we were not risking getting bit by the cat. we have sent home dogs half down or less becuase they have been so agressive and plain mean that it was near impossible to get what needed to be done, done. shaving wont stop hair from falling out. Sounds like you need to actually work with ths dog to accept grooming. at 12 weeks old you probably gave in to the crys and nips he would make when being brushed. what do you feed him? feeding can help cut down on shedding as well. My dog hardly sheds an, I brush him maybe once a week, depending ont he week. and Im lucky if I even get a handfull of hair of off him. I would not shave the dog, period. does alot of damage to a coat, will get the dog sun burnt easily, ruis the guard hairs for new hair growth.


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## FourIsCompany (Apr 18, 2009)

Tankstar said:


> Sounds like you need to actually work with ths dog to accept grooming.


I agree with this. Give him a bully stick and lightly brush him, massage him and rub his belly while he's chewing it. Then put it away. Every day, let him have the stick for 5-10 minutes while you work on him until you can work up to getting his undercoat out. 

My B'asia came to me with a "fear" of brushing around her rear end. I have done the above and now, I can brush her no problem. It may work for you. 

I would NOT shave him. 

You can also work on getting him blown out. You might take him to a groomer for this or do it yourself with a shop vac.  That's what I use. 

It's going to take some training, but I think it probably can be done. It would be a shame to ruin his coat.


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## Bossybruce (May 31, 2009)

With a muzzle he is able to be brushed. From what i have read it mess with his undercoat. what i don't understand is shouldn't it come back just like it was brushed out or fell out. 

Thanks for the advice


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## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hi...your Collie is Beautiful!....I had a Collie with the same coloring as yours, her name was Candy.

She was very hard to brush -- it was very hard to keep up with her. I took her to the groomers and had her hair cut down -- very close, but not shaved. It grew back every time. 

I wouldn't advise getting it shaved, leave at least 3 inches of hair because it acts as protection from the cold and the heat. If shaved, it will leave the dog with no protection and that wouldn't be good, especially since your dog stays outside for 4 hours at a time. 

Good Luck to you & your beautiful dog!Collies are great!


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

A groomer, honestly, may actually have much more luck handling him than you; dogs seem to know how much leverage that they can gain on their owners, especially in areas such as grooming, brushing teeth, trimming nails, etc... Trust me, as a groomer who gets a lot of 'problem dogs' I speak honestly when I say that. It's not that you don't try, it's just sometimes, the dog just knows how far he can push you, and if he knows he can put his teeth on you, then that in itself, is a ton of leverage for him already. 

Groomers also do not groom a dog on the floor, we have tables, and many, such as my self have different types of restraints to help us groom a dog easier; If a dog has issues standing, because he has weak hips, for example, I have a belly band, that I clip to my extra grooming arm. This way he can lean into the belly band, still enabling him to stand, and I can do my job more effectively because the dog is still able to stand. The belly band is also helpful for dogs who like to just plop their butts down just because they don't like to stand for me... 

For dogs that like to try and turn around and nip, or back off my table I have another restraint that I can clip to the front of my regular arm. This way they can't turn, or reach around to grab at me, which usually calms them down a great deal. 

Those things said, I rarely, rarely ever use a muzzle, and it's not because I don't groom 'naughty dogs'; I get 'most' of the naughty ones, because I have a reputation in knowing how to handle them, but because I know how to read the dogs, and know how much and how far I can 'push' a certain area before a dog will snap, I know to stop before the dog CAN snap. 

I work with people who think that you can't tell how a dog will act or react in certain situations, and I think that is bull; all you have to do is study dogs for a while, and you start to figure out what makes a dog uncomfortable, and can learn how to work around those things, and help the dog figure out that being groomed can be a pleasant experience.

As far as clipping him down, no I wouldn't have him clipped really close; the shortest I will normally cut a dog like that down is a # 3 blade, and that is pushing my personal comfort zone length wise, because I don't like to cut into the undercoat at all. If you do want him clipped down, I would suggest nothing shorter than a # 3\4 blade or a longer snap on comb attachment. Either way, for the dog's comfort, especially if this will be a 'first time experience' make sure you tell them to do what ever is most comfortable for the dog; but like I said, no shorter than a 3\4's blade. If he isn't really matted, they should have no problems doing the snap on though


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Not a groomer, but just a question: are you at all willing to consider training your dog so he accepts grooming?


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## Bossybruce (May 31, 2009)

I want to thank every one for the quick reply and the great advice. 

Okay as for training him. Whew, i have tried. No when he was a pup I did not give into the whining and squirming.
The only way we can do it with out a muzzle is to get a large carrot and have him tring to eat that out of my husbands hands and we can go thru about 4 carrots in 20 mins. And that is still with him every once and a while turning around and "holding" me with his teeth. And when he does that i know i probly shouldnt but i would "bite" (hold his skin in my teeth) him back

Last night I dont know what got in to him but I sat for 45 min on the back porch and brushed him with a a large tooth dog comb and he sat there for me with no complaints. I hope he is getting better and it was not just a one time thing. He is not matted at all just a lot of loose undercoat that comes out in chunks, and just the everyday hair that comes out. 

The reason I thought that a 3-4 inch cut would cool him down quite a bit. As it is i keep a 70 degree house and he still sleeps on the vents. 

But again thank you all so much for the great advice and help. I am still thinking about it i have not made up my mind. i will do some more reading about it.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Maybe I've just been lucky so far but all my dogs, including 3 rough collies, have at the very least tolerated grooming and one of the collies would refuse to get off the grooming table if he didn't think I'd spent enough time. LOL

A grooming table especially one with a grooming arm can make a big difference in how a dog acts. And, if you have to use a muzzle for now so that you can be confident he can't bite then do so (whether you groom or take him to the groomers). Perhaps call some groomers or ask for recommendations and find one that deals with probelm dogs so that s/he can at least get the undercoat out for you and start you off with a clean, well-groomed Collie. Then you can work at teaching him that grooming can be a positive experience by spending just a minute or two a day (to start) on grooming him beginning with areas of his body that he accepts best.

The coat provides insullation against the heat as well as the cold so if you do decide to have him cut down, which I definitely do not recommend, be sure to leave about 4 inches of hair.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

How is he with your vacuum cleaner? Some dogs love to be vacuumed! If he barks at it and tries to chase or bite it than it would not be an option.


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## Raggs (Jan 10, 2007)

Here's a little info.. I've been grooming Collies since I started grooming 10 yrs ago.. I have never NEVER brushed one that didn't turn around and snap or put his/her mouth on my arm.. I have never been bit by one though.. They are a type of breed that just doesn't like it. 

We have one that comes into work and every time she gets dropped off mom or dad say, no Collie nips.. Because every single one they've owned has snapped for being brushed. 

One girl I work with was brushing her out and she didn't turn to snap or anything so the girl decided to gloat about it.. My response, You're not doing it right.. I walked over grabbed the undercoat rake and combed, sure enough, dog turned.... Then the other girl finally put pressure in the brush and the dog turned at her too.

So don't feel bad, it's just the breed.. I'm sure somewhere there's some that don't do this... 

You've just gotta keep at it.. Also like someone else said, the groomer may have better luck.. Dogs know they can control their owners, but they can't control the groomer....


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

*sighs* How well I understand.

I'd get a grooming table and muzzle him, also keep the noose tight and high and work fast. Keep the sesssions short. Maybe 10 minutes a day.

I once had a bitch that tried to bite when you worked on her belly, one hard pop with the flat of the pin brush over her nose and she decided to leave well enough alone.

It does tend to be a collie thing, but it's still not tolerated in my dogs.


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## HORSEandHOUND (May 28, 2009)

leaving 3-4 inches of coat will take someone hand scissoring him. if you try and trim to that length with a clipper, he'll look like i ran him over with my bush hog. 
basically your choice for shave down is nekkid or nothing (or pay out the wazoo for hand scissoring)
it will grow back. i had many collies, shelties, border collies, aussies, and chows that came to me for shave downs 2x a year and they always got full coat back just fine. people say that it's never the same again because he'll look goofy for a whole season, especially if you get him shaved down only once.

on a side note one chow came to see me and the owner said we'd have to put him under to shave him because he was so agressive. with a basket muzzle, and lots of patience i managed to get him shaved down. as it turned out the more hair i took off, the friendlier he got. His body temperature dropped 1.5 degrees during the grooming process! Turns out when you are hot and bothered, you bite.... amazing.


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## kacaju (Jan 2, 2008)

he is so cute....

This may be a silly question but here goes... If you get him shaved, clipped, whatever. Won't he still shed just as much, but just *short hair* instead of his longer hair??

That being said we had a rough collie in our house for a few weeks, once we watched her when her Mom had surgery, and more recent my daughter showed her so we had her again. She tried to nip at us as we brushed her too.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Raggs said:


> Here's a little info.. I've been grooming Collies since I started grooming 10 yrs ago.. I have never NEVER brushed one that didn't turn around and snap or put his/her mouth on my arm.. I have never been bit by one though.. They are a type of breed that just doesn't like it. ..


That's interesting because I have had very few collies who aren't extremely patient about the grooming process; and trust me, when I am done with any dog, you can run a fine tooth comb through it. I don't think you have to be 'rough' or 'pull hard' on them either...there are ways of loosening matts, and dead coat without ticking a dog off, or reaching his tolerance 'thresh-hold'...


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

I know I am coming into this late, but here's my 2 cents too. I agree with the above poster, that in order to leave 4 inches...you are talking hand scissor..I won't even quote a price for a hand scissor collie, cause I am NOT going to do it. And if you can find someone who can, they STILL have to thoroughly brush and comb the dog to remove ALL the loose undercoat. I agree that a groomer is going to be able to get farther than you are able to, reasons as everyone posted above. A groomer can also get most of that coat to blow out with a proper bath and a good HV dry..then brusing and combing won't be as difficult. Personally, I am not a fan of babying large dogs that put their teeth on me, for any reason. That is a HUGE no-go in my book, and that would be stopping immediately. I would get a large eyescrew, and a good nylon choke collarthat won't slip off. Put the eyescrew in a sturdy stud in the garage/basement, etc. level with the dog's collar/neck, and snub him up there with a length of chain and carbeners, with just enough room to stand comfortably. Start brushing on the rear end and let him fight and buck and act like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum. He will learn real fast that you are not hurting him, that he isn't getting away, and that he is only fighting himself. He'll straighten up pretty quickly. THEN you praise and keep on brushing. He has you figured out, and its all on his terms. Unfortunately, he's a collie, and he needs to behave for regular brushing and combing.


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## Raggs (Jan 10, 2007)

Oh.. I know how to get mats out easily.. I groom a Collie every month.. And as soon as the brush touches her side she shows her teeth. But I can do anything I want to her anywhere else and she's fine.. 

And I remembered.. I did groom a Collie one time that was a perfect angel for the grooming...


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Having been grooming collies, for various breeders in our area for years. I can say a lot of collies can be and are 'touchy' about grooming. 

Some are great, some not so great. My dogs don't dare act like the ones I do at the kennels, though.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

All the collies I have groomed have been complete loves and never gave me a problem. Maybe I've got a special collie gene.  

I wouldn't shave, but maybe bring him to an experienced groomer and explain the problems you have brushing him. As someone else suggested, and I find to be true often, dogs act a lot differently with their owners than with other people. Cutting Jonas' nails is a nightmare and he fights every step of the way. I bring him to the salon? The other girls have done them with no fuss, just him standing still on the table. They can give your collie a great brush/low shed and blow out. 

If they do have difficulties, they may refuse to complete the groom, but so far in the last two years grooming I have only had to "reject" and suggest sedation grooming for two dogs.


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