# Teaching Weave Polls question.



## The Dog Walker (Nov 30, 2012)

If you have dog agility experience, can you tell me if teaching the weave poles is harder than most of the other obstacles / jumps? This will be the last session of agility for my dog Kona, this year, and they will be working on the teeter totter.... The only thing they won't have done at all is the weave poles..... which makes me think it might be hard to teach.

I have bought stuff to make my own, but I don't know if I am the right person to do the training. My daughter has been taking the classes with my dog.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't think it's necessarily harder, depending on the method you use and the dog. Using a channel weaves method Squash did terrible, doing a 2x2 method he picked it up quickly.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Yes, weave poles generally take a lot longer and really it is impossible to get good weaves if you don't practice at home. This is why Summer's weaves suck. I never practice lol.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea absolutely you have to practice at home, I agree. I don't know that it's "hard" so much as it takes a LOT of practice because it's really an unnatural kind of thing.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

In addition, I think weaves are tough because they have to be so totally independent if you want to trial. Dogs have to find the entry and stay in there, no matter where you are and what you are doing. Getting weaves down takes time.

They're fun. They aren't hard, they just take time.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, agreed - it takes a lot of practice, mostly - and part of that's to figure out what, but IME far more of the practice and time is to get consistency and to build speed.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Weaves take a lot of repetition and tedious work to sink in more than anything. You definitely don't teach them by guiding them through the poles. You start with spread apart poles and move them closer together little by little no matter which method you used.

There's the channel method, and the 2x2 method that I know of. I'm not sure if one is really better than the other and it probably more depends on the dog. My dog learned with the channel, and she has a really nice rhythm, and doesn't pop out. I think with the channel you might need to work harder on teaching a dog to find the entrance to the poles though. No idea since I haven't used the 2x2. 

So.. yeah I think the weaves are bit more difficult to teach than other obstacles.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I think it's almost more that the other obstacles are relatively easy than that weaves are hard?

I mean various obstacles require some convincing to do or do correctly. Don't blow the contacts, don't be afraid of the teeter and stay on it all the way to the ground, don't leave the table until go. Some dogs need convincing that certain things are going to eat them/that tunnels and chutes aren't scary or whatever - but for the most part every obstacle has at most one thing that needs TAUGHT - like contacts.

But after that, things like where to enter, where to exit, and staying with the obstacle until completion are self-evident. The weave poles don't really have that going for them. The space between pole 3 and 4 looks just the same as the entrance between 1 and 2. Likewise, the space between 11 and 12 looks just exactly like the space between 5 and 6. So you've got to teach some real discrimination so they FIND the entrance and stay until the exit on top of the physical movement. 

It's just... more complicated for the dog than 'climb this' and 'jump over that'.


----------



## The Dog Walker (Nov 30, 2012)

trainingjunkie said:


> In addition, I think weaves are tough because they have to be so totally independent if you want to trial. Dogs have to find the entry and stay in there, no matter where you are and what you are doing. Getting weaves down takes time.
> 
> 
> They're fun. They aren't hard, they just take time.


We're just doing it for fun, and to bond, but I would like him to do it the right way.


----------



## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

Susan Garrett's 2x2 method is in my opinion the way to go. http://www.clickerdogs.com/2x2_weave_training.php Even if you are training "just for fun" you may eventually find that you want to compete....the bug gets you really easily. My Cavalier, Gemma, was trained with guide wires (this was before the 2x2 method came to be). She is an amazing agility dog, she does distance beautifully, has directionals, almost never drops bars, has a fantastic start line stay but weaves are our weak link. Fluffy white dog, Baxter is being taught using the 2x2 method. Almost every dog that I know that has been taught using 2x2 has amazing weaves. Unless you are Susan Garrett...it probably won't happen in 12 days though.


----------



## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

The Dog Walker said:


> If you have dog agility experience, can you tell me if teaching the weave poles is harder than most of the other obstacles / jumps? This will be the last session of agility for my dog Kona, this year, and they will be working on the teeter totter.... The only thing they won't have done at all is the weave poles..... which makes me think it might be hard to teach.
> 
> I have bought stuff to make my own, but I don't know if I am the right person to do the training. My daughter has been taking the classes with my dog.


I didn't find it difficult to teach... I worked on it by teaching leg weaves first, and then to circle household objects, and then eventually I got poles and taught him to weave them. 

Video: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1541238339432824&set=vb.1539283659628292&type=3&theater

Toby gets excited and jumps through the poles, but he'd only been working them a few times before the video was shot over the summer.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I really really don't want to come across weird here, because that is a wicked cool trick and I know you're just starting

But for agility weaving the hardest part is hitting the entrance from various angles and directions, it always has to be with the first pole on the dog's left shoulder, and performing it independently - ie: you not going with the dog the whole way through- and the dog driving forward.

People do teach it via luring, but... it's really not the best method for most dogs in agility.

Mostly though just heads up on the sides thing. Always first pole on the dog's left, no matter which direction you're coming from.


----------



## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

CptJack said:


> I really really don't want to come across weird here, because that is a wicked cool trick and I know you're just starting
> 
> But for agility weaving the hardest part is hitting the entrance from various angles and directions, it always has to be with the first pole on the dog's left shoulder, and performing it independently - ie: you not going with the dog the whole way through- and the dog driving forward.
> 
> ...


Are you referring to me?? because Toby was still being taught the poles, and I wasn't luring, I was pointing him to weave where I wanted him to weave.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

BostonBullMama said:


> Are you referring to me?? because Toby was still being taught the poles, and I wasn't luring, I was pointing him to weave where I wanted him to weave.


There are a bunch of ways to teach - but with or without food in your hand there's a level of guidance there most people try to avoid in agility even at learning stages. Not really the point though - people do use that method with some success, there are just easier ways to get independent performance. Do whatever works for you, I'm just saying that the 'hard' part is in the independence, speed and finding the entrance - not going back and forth between the objects.

But like I said the real reason I posted and yeah referring to you: the pole always has to be on the dog's left. THAT bit of advice was given because I know you intend to do agility later and if he's used to starting from either side you're going to have more problems later.


----------



## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I appreciate the advice.
Toby can't start agility for a while though... surgeries have us set back... I'm not sure if we'll ever start.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I lured the weaves with summer. You can tell cause I still have to do the hand thing in trials.

To be honest it was laziness on my part. Mostly due to her age and the fact I'm faster than she is so there's never a question of if she beats me to the weaves. I knew I would never really care to/have time to trial too much with her so we just did them quickly and done. 

Hank has started 2x2s but just going through the 1st set straight on. I want independent weaves with him. 

In agility you really need to teach them without hand luring if you can. A lot of times you can't beat the dog there so they need to be weaving while you're a long ways away.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Also Summer has no toy drive and weaves are one of those few things that toy drive helps a TON with.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yep, weaves were what got me creative with the food in a bottle. Teaching weaves without something to throw is hard.

Kylie got my backyard jury-rigged special with weaves. I started with luring, went back and added 2X2 because while she'd move ahead of me without the hand thing or me being close she was never, ever, going to find that entrance on her own with that method.

I'm sorry your agility's being pushed back BostonBullyMama. Bug started at 8 though, so hopefully you'll get a chance to play together when the surgeries are done.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Summer doesn't even like food toys enough to throw them. I gave up and we have weak weaves but that's ok for what we're doing. With Hank it won't fly though.

I also wanted to point out that you sent Toby in the wrong side when he's on your right hand. In agility they have to enter the poles with the 1st pole on the dog's left shoulder. It looks like you got it right on the way going towards the camera though.


----------



## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

I found weaves pretty hard, definitely the hardest obstacle. Channels didn't work and 2x2's didn't work, but shaping them worked awesome. It really depends on the dog, there's a bunch of different methods out there for a reason. It took a good year before she had solid weaves, and they are still much stronger on one side than the other. I kind of think they're tougher for little dogs too because there's an extra couple of steps in between each weave so I thought it seemed harder for them to really find a groove.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I put together this video a while ago when Lark was first learning the weaves. She is much better now but we are still working on them.

What I did for both lark and Hawkeye was to set up the 6 poles competition spaced and then I would just train the entrance. Tell them to go thru and throw a treat thru the right poles. We worked that a few times till they went between the poles consistently, then I started calling them back thru the next space. And we add on over time. It's a weird way to do but I had tremendous success with Hawkeye as his is an amazing weaver. Lark is a bit slower on it but she's coming along.

Just skip to the 1:20 mark


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

I might have to give 2x2s a try and see if it makes a difference, but Kairi really picked up on the channel quickly.

You can see in this video of us training that Kairi had an issue with the entrance, but even people who do 2x2 seem to still have entrance problems at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsIVOSLDBvI

Since then we've worked a lot on entry and she gets the entry just fine from most distances/angles by herself. We also gained speed since then. There's no way we could have gotten very far without having outside of class access to weaves. There's fairly cheap homemade options that make it so you are able to build your own poles with pvc pipes, even the channel or 2x2 kind, for anyone that wants cheaper weaves.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

LoMD13 said:


> I kind of think they're tougher for little dogs too because there's an extra couple of steps in between each weave so I thought it seemed harder for them to really find a groove.


I actually really agree with this. I haven't done much with bigger dogs and weaving - Thud a little bit - but it seems like he found a method with one foot at a time through the weaves pretty fast. Kylie's not even tiny, but she still has a lot more ground to cover between the poles and while she's getting faster she still doesn't really have a GROOVE with them, yet.


----------



## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Just chiming in to say I'm a huge fan of the 2x2 method and it is the way I will always teach. I started Zoey with the 2x2 method and I've been really happy I did. I want and need independent weaves. And we are getting there. We are at the proofing stage with our weaves and teaching her to understand that her job is to weave and finish the weaves regardless of where I am and what else is going on around her. It has taken a LOT of practice to get to this point. I had a set of 6 weaves poles in my bedroom all last winter and through to this summer, and we would do a couple sets of weaves every night before bed. Zoey has just started to build speed and rhythm in 12 weaves in the last 2 months or so. And it's really awesome to see her understanding and gaining confidence with it.


----------



## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Hard to hold a camera and do weaves. She usually does not come back to me but could not throw her toy and operate the camera. Started with the channel weaves.

http://youtu.be/nv5zyvzdTdA


----------

