# Puppy Zoomies on Grass



## craftyfaith (Jun 22, 2016)

I've been dealing with zoomie episodes on grass with my pup Milo for at least 6 months. We'll be walking along like normal and then he gets this wild crazy look and starts charging around, biting the leash, and generally acting crazy. Any grass can potentially set him off even walking across the front yard. I've tried training attention work on grass, more structured walking practice, reinforcing for eye contact, relaxation work, and doing more training behaviors that he knows like sit, down, touch on walks. It helps to distract him but at any moment he can lose it. I know that zoomies are a normal puppy thing but my guy is 80lbs and it's very hard to keep calm and collected with him charging around and slamming into the end of the leash. I've been through two trainers and don't honestly feel like their suggestions were very helpful. The first trainer suggested doing more active behaviors on the walk like touch, sit, ect.. The second one had me doing find-its on grass to try and build an alternative behavior of sniffing on grass. I've tried both of these and don't feel like I've made much progress. I'm not sure where to go from here. I've read a lot of books on positive reinforcement dog training and have training experience but I've never run into this problem before. I'm afraid to take Milo anywhere now because of how bad these zoomie episodes are. 

Milo is a 15 month old Rottie/Jack Russell mix. I've had him since he was 10 weeks old.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

What do you do when he has these zoomies? Do you flail around? Say anything? Make any noises (even if their involuntary)?


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## craftyfaith (Jun 22, 2016)

I've tried a few different approaches. I've tried turning my back but then he yanks on my arm which is hard given his size. I've also tried stepping on the leash to keep from flailing my arms and making it more exciting. Neither of these approaches stop the zoomies. If I step on the leash he does less zooming and more leash biting. I don't yell at him. I do cue down which he will almost always respond to but then the second one of us moves he zooms again. I can sometimes get past the area but click/treating for four on the ground in tiny increments but then if anything else excites him he goes back to zooming. I'm afraid to go anywhere with him because the zooming really upsets me and seems to stress him out as well. He is most likely to zoom in big grassy areas but it can even just be the little strip of grass next to the sidewalk.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Is it possible he anticipates that if he zooms around he will get that big treat reward after because you are trying to calm him down? My dog would cause a ruckus in class every minute or so. I would call his attention back to me, he would sit and act pretty, get a treat, but he would cause a ruckus the next minute. I eventually caught on, and now he gets led in a circle or ignored. Ended that problem right quick because he knew causing a ruckus wasn't going to get him the treat. He gets a treat every minute or so now for doing what he is supposed to do.

Perhaps you could try not cuing anything. Just stand on the leash and ignore him until he calms himself, not matter what he does. Then continue on as if nothing happened. If he does it again, ignore until he calms himself and continue. But don't forget to reward for LLW BEFORE and AFTER, but make sure to time the rewards so they're for the LLW, not anything to do with being crazy. My dog would have zoomies all around me in snow when he was younger. I just stood there and let him zoom. I didn't try to stop it. No use. He eventually stopped and stared at me as if he was expecting something, and I would say, "You done? Alright, lets go!" and off we went. I got some weird stares, but who cares? It's a baby dog.

To me, it kind of sounds like your dog thinks its a game. He zooms, you try to stop him, he gets a treat. So he does it again. Don't get upset, there is nothing to be upset about. Your dog is young and easily overstimulated. I found it easier to stare at the sky and think to myself, "You silly thing." Just be boring when he behaves that way.


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## craftyfaith (Jun 22, 2016)

I've done a lot of waiting it out but the intensity builds I think because he gets frustrated with the leash. Also, although he will stop eventually, as soon as I start moving again he'll go back to zooming. I tried waiting for a pause and then cueing a few behaviors to get his mind off it which works to decrease the length of the zoomies but again if anything exciting happens he goes back at it. As far as I can tell the grass is a trigger for him to run around. If he's off leash and is on a field that's what he does. He zooms around in circles for maybe 10 minutes or so. But since the leash is on he hits the end of the leash and that seems to make him anxious. He'll even get tangled in the leash and flip over occasionally. It's very hard to manage. If he only did it now and then it would be one thing but pretty much anytime there is grass it can happen. Our car is broken down so I'm not sure how I'm going to burn off some of his energy today since I can't take him anywhere off leash. May end up trying a short flirt pole session in the yard. The walk yesterday just seemed to amp him up and I don't know that I have the patients to get through another disastrous walk.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Yeah, that sounds familiar. Thankfully, my dog wasn't quite as determined! So, what exactly does your dog consider exciting enough to trigger a zoomie? Is it just grass, or some other factor? I know it is frustrating when they act like a nutcase, but zoomies is just one of those annoying puppy things that they have to grow out of. If my dog was on a long line I kind of guided him to run in a circle so he wasn't tugging on the leash. If he is on a long enough leash to get tangled up in, you might consider a harness so he doesn't hurt his neck when he hits the end of the leash.

I would really encourage you to just completely ignore him when he has a zoomie, no matter if he tugs on the leash or jumps on you. You can try to cue certain commands all you want, but it often seems like something they just have to work out of their systems. Other things you can try is redirecting that energy to a tug toy (which will also teach him the proper thing to tug on, lol), a ball, whatever. My dog was nuts for tug, so when I needed him to burn energy, but not be a maniac, I used that. At home, try working on impulse control with exercises like Doggie Zen.


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## craftyfaith (Jun 22, 2016)

They have got to remove the big reply to thread button.... It's so easy to push that and loose a response. 

Milo will zoom on grass without any triggers but if he is holding it together on grass the things that set him off are running dogs, playful dogs, running children, squirrels, cats, me moving too fast, or particularly good scents. I walk him on the balance harness. I'm still using a front clip because he occasionally lunges after critters and I need the leverage the front clip gives me. I walk him on a 6 foot leash but he still gets tangled up in it sometimes. 

I've tried really waiting it out but as soon as I move he goes back to zooming. So far his record was over 20 minutes of zooming. Neither me or my partner have enough patients to be attached to a crazy 80lb puppy for that long. I don't think waiting it out is an option. If I have to wait out 20 minutes of zooming on my walks I'll never walk him again. It's too stressful for both of us. I tried using tug as a reinforcer but he gets to amped up over the tug toy out of the house and tends to get my hands. He otherwise has great impulse control. He can zen with thrown treats, me running, setting up treat searches across the room ect... I've done a lot of impulse control work with him. The current impulse control challenge is the flirt pole in the front yard which is still hard for him.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Yeah, I know, it's tough. 20 minutes is a long time. I can't be certain without actually interacting, but I think he sees zooming as a game and a way get you to play with him. Any attention is good attention to an adolescent dog! How often have you tried to wait him out? Just the once, and then gone back to trying to get him to do something else? If he knows zooming works most of the time, it is probably going to take more than 20 minutes to get him to give up. Our dog barked at us during meal times for 30 minutes for a week before he finally just started to slowly get tired of it, and after another week he was done. He tried super hard, too. It got worse before it got better, but we were more patient. He zoomed on the end of the leash from 5 months old to 9 months, and I got really good at being boring.

Have you tried attaching a carbiner clip (make sure it's heavy duty for a dog that size) to your leash, and then hooking the leash around a sturdy object like a pole, a tree, whatever when he zoomies? That way you don't have to bear the brunt of him, and you can walk out of his reach. Be prepared for an unholy racket, but it works! Have you worked on the Zen outside? Maybe start on cement, then onto grass, etc. Dogs don't always generalize well that impulse control applies outside, too!

But what age is your dog? A little over 1 year, if I remember? He will be an adolescent until he is between 2-3 years old, and I am willing to bet that he will grow out of that behavior on his own.


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## craftyfaith (Jun 22, 2016)

I think the zoomies are definitely self reinforcing. My original strategy was waiting him out. I tried it for a few weeks before giving it up. Waiting for a pause and then reinforcing him for feet on the ground worked better. I can sometimes see them about to happen and forestall it by asking for eye contact or a touch. I've been working on this problem now for more than 6 months. I'd say in that time period it has gotten worse. 

I'm not sure I'd be able to get him attached to anything safely during zoomies. He's really strong and he's actually pulled me over and dragged me a couple of times. I'd also be nervous about him getting out of his equipment as he's a bit of an escape artist with his harness. Working on zen outside is a good idea. I did a fair bit of work on it in the backyard and a little on the front yard but I'll definitely go back and work on outdoor impulse control more. 

I honestly think he's just a giant puppy (he's 15 months) who has too much energy. He does get to run off leash 3-5xweek but it's hard on the day's I can't take him. I found a route today where I can walk 4 blocks up and down a couple of allys that doesn't have any grass or fence rushing dogs. We walked for an hour back and forth with no zoomies except one little hop on the front yard on the way back in. I think I need to just work on getting leashed walking absolutely solid with no grass before adding the grass in. Hopefully I'll be able to walk him in more exciting places eventually


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Zoomies can be related to a release of energy or to a release of frustration. Frequently they are self-limiting - after 15 minutes of running around, the dog has burned of the last bit of energy. It sounds like you have an idea of what to work on, to be safe.


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