# What are your dog walking rules?



## photo_grapher_gurl (Feb 27, 2009)

Mine are:

Can't walk in front of me
No pulling
No sniffing
No fixations/staring


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## Allie3985 (Jul 19, 2008)

Good question! It depends on if I have said "heel" (atttention heeling) or "with me" (just loose heeling). I'm assuming that we are talking about loose heeling, so the dog doesn't need to be making eye contact the whole time.

I'm ok with sniffing as long as it is in a loose leash position. Basically this means she can have her nose down if she is still walking at my side and if her nose doesn't lead her off to where she will hit the end of the leash.
I agree with no going ahead of me.
I don't like lagging behind either.
Definately no fixations.
No holding the leash in her mouth! 
For puppies, no heel biting or jumping on me. . .although I don't mind "bouncing" for a treat in puppies as long as they aren't jumping on me or snapping my hand. They also don't get the treat for bouncing, but I won't correct it the way I would if she jumped on me.

Can't think of anything else!


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

For just a stroll around?

Assuming I'm not doing heel work, as long as they aren't pulling and are keeping up with me (and not getting me all tangled up)...that's pretty much it. I have no problem with them checking out the neighborhoods (sights, sounds, smells, etc.). Banning that would kind of defeat the purpose of our walks, as walking barely counts as physical exercise for them.

No barking either of course.

I find that our walks are better training/learning opportunities if I don't ask for much, lol.


ETA: My area has leash laws and from what I understand they are enforced from time to time. In either case I abide by them and keep my dogs on lead during our walks.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

I haven't really had to enforce any rules with Zoey on walks.. She has pulled a few times, but stops if I put her back at my side. I don't mind if she walks in front of me, she still looks to me for directions. I also don't mind the sniffing as long as it's not accompanied by pulling. She can sniff as long as she keeps up.. I want her to enjoy herself on the walk after all.. It's not all about me. It's her outing too, and what fun is it if she can't sniff and explore things along the way? If she were more high-strung though I might need to have some rules.. But she's pretty good all around on the walk.. I'm always proud when she's walking calmly by my side and we pass another person who's dog is pulling and bouncing and leaping to cross the street to see us.. lol.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Free-walk (off-leash) - Meaning no real position work or training 

-Stay relatively close to me while we're moving. If I'm staying still, as long as I can see him and nothing looks questionable in the environment, he's cool.

-No eating foreign stuff (namely poop, and you wouldn't believe how many half-eating chicken wings or pork chop bones he finds...makes me wonder about the people in the development...) off the ground. Sniffing is fine. "Fetching" it is not ideal, but I won't correct him for basically an offered retrieve. I'd rather him bring it to me than eat it!

-No going on other people's property. Obviously he doesn't know what that is, but I'll redirect him off of it.

-Look at me before peeing on anything. He knows how to do this so I require it of him every time. If he does this and it's an okay spot, I'll give the "go ahead" (i.e. go potty cue), otherwise, I'll recall him and bring him to a good spot.

-As always, follow any cues given regardless of anything else.


Off-leash heeling or "migrating".

-Maintain the general position. Doesn't have to be exact to-the-inch perfect, but if his butt is lined up with my leg - that's too far in front. 

-If he needs/wants to pee on something, he can give me eye contact while we are moving. If it's steady contact and he's maintaining his position with any decent accuracy - I'll give the "go potty" cue and let him sniff around and pick a spot to pee for 90 seconds, or until he's done investigating and comes back by me to continue walking. (btw, the reason I picked 90 seconds is because of this site  and the level 3 "Handling" task is eliminating in under 2 minutes. So I figured 90 seconds would be even better 

-As always, all cues/directions need to be followed and he's also has to recognize that I've stopped moving and he's to sit and look at me before we continue. If he's needing help or is just too distracted, he has a "focus" cue I will give him. That means get to my side, sit, and look at me for our next move.

My heel "cue" is me either stopping dead in my tracks (happens when he goes too far out front mostly), or me not moving and just not paying him any attention (so that I don't have to look at him when I need to be looking to see if it's safe to cross the street or if the walk signal is up, etc, my standing still is to be enough, given the context of the situation). I know I probably should have an actual cue, but I also want him to learn to act correctly and independently by reading the context of the environment and what I'm doing (or not doing) at the moment. He's getting better at it.


On-leash is basically the same as the above two scenarios with no pulling or tight leash allowed. That causes an abrupt interruption in whatever we are doing until he's sitting by my side and looking at me. (or sometimes a bit of negative reinforcement in the form of being yanked because of his own choice of direction, i.e. I'm not yanking him, just moving in the same line and it's his deviation that's caused the discomfort, prompting him to get quickly back in line)

Goes without saying that I have my clicker and treats ready to mark and reward successful rule following. No real corrections, just redirection with other cues or Premack style "negotiation" (look at me and you can pee on those leaves)

It probably reads as more dictating than it is if you were to see us out and about. Wally always gets compliments about how good he behaves even when not on leash. One lady was like "how do you do that? If that were my dog, he'd have run away!"


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

Well, my dog doesn't go outside of my yard without a leash on. That's rule #1. I don't really walk with my dogs. I roller blade with them. They have a difficult time getting in front of me. When we are walking, they stay right by my side at all times and are not allowed to sniff or explore unless I give them permission to do so. 

I would never walk my dog off leash simply because I don't trust the other dogs in my neighborhood.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

The dogs are actually out and about in your neighborhood? They aren't often out and around here. On occasion, there's a few others walking their dog(s), but not too often. 

I do keep the leash on me, though, just in case some situation looks questionable. I can pull it out - put it on with no fuss and keep going.


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## jconli (Sep 2, 2008)

On a leash at all times! We have been working with Casey on not pulling; but the progress is slow.


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## Sunshyne (Feb 5, 2008)

My dog is also on leash at all times. I don't put up with pulling, and she does it _very rarely_, it's a huge pet peeve of mine. She walks using a harness, and I trained her from the beginning not to pull as it won't get her anywhere. I can't stand when people say harnesses encourage pulling - if you put the time, effort and training into it, they simply won't.

As long as she isn't pulling, I don't really care if she's in front of me, or sniffing. She's a dog, she's out getting exercise and having fun. I could care less if I stop for 15 seconds for her to sniff the ground. I'm not training a police or military dog or anything. 

Chloe is a great, well behaved dog, and really why should it matter - if she walks well on a loose leash - if she's to the right, left or front of me? She will stop at my command and sit and stay if I ask. I think walking should be fun for both parties and if I don't ever let her stop how boring that would be.

Also, I never ever let her go on other people's yards. I hate finding poop in my grass, and even though I pick up after her, I don't want her to use my neighbor's yard as a toilet.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

It depends on the walk. If we go to the park they can go all about and sniff around and pee on stuff and do dog stuff, depending on the park they are either off leash or on a long line. If we are on what I call a "working walk" then they have to be walking next to me, loose lead and we work on various commands throughout the walk. Just a casual walk through the neighborhood, then as long as they keeping a loose leash, not tangling up and not walking way out in front or behind me (I worry about cars coming out of driveways) they can sniff around and stuff.


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

I love the NO leash walks where she can run and still keeps her eyes on me but in town I think it's too many distractions and she's too young yet so hopefully soon she will learn to walk on a leash with NO pulling. My dream is as she gets older never using a leash except in areas where you have to


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## deege39 (Dec 29, 2008)

I haven't really taught Donatello to "heel"...

He doesn't pull, unless I instigate him to chase off a wild cat.

He walks in-front of me, but I don't find that disrespectful at all... It's his walk, I let him walk way out to my side, or way out in front, as long as he's behaving. (I have a retractable leash, so if he does get out of hand all I have to do is call him back to me, lock the leash and start off again.)

If he lags behind, lingering over a spot, all I do is say, "_C'mon, let's go_!" and he quickly runs to catch up.

As for "sniffing"... I could never tell Donatello to _not_ sniff! That's like his thing, he's got Terrier in him and like a Hound, when he picks up a scent he's on it!


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## photo_grapher_gurl (Feb 27, 2009)

lol Sandler's still learning so sniffing is a big NO NO because he then gets fixated, or starts walking off, or stops listening to me. 

Because he's in training (and so is Nova!), they have strict rules on our walks  It's good for their walks to be mentally stimulating which I think I accomplish by laying down rules and challenging them to follow them.



I had Sandler by himself today on a short walk to the mailbox and back and we worked on the whole grabbing the leash problem at the run. I fixed it at the walk and he does it once in a blue moon, but I couldn't go faster than a walk, or do a fast walk, or get him excited in ANY WAY without him trying to snag the leash from me. It'll be a work in progress but after a few yanks and loud "AH-AH!"s he finally got the message. When I slowed to a walk and then started jogging again, he started his vice up again but I just need to keep practicing it with him and break him of the habit, and of the temptation, to take the leash from me. I learned that when he looks up at me while we're jogging it's him contemplating haha.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I don't have many walking rules. As long as they're on a loose leash I don't have a problem with it. I think denying my beagles the right to sniff on walks would be like taking away a part of their souls.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

It depends on the walk and what we are doing. 

Atka is almost always off leash. If I am asking for "by me" with attention, then she is to focus on my face, and walk in heel position. This is intense. She is to sit when I stop and move her self into proper position if/as I turn.. and keep looking at my face. 

If she is loose walking (not under a heel position command) she must walk ahead of me (so I can see her.. I do NOT want to be looking behind me for the dog). She is not to get stuck on anything she is sniffing. She is to stay near by and she is to wait for me if I ask for wait. She is to check on my where abouts. She may be randomly asked to sit, lie down, stand and wait. She may be 100 feet from me and if I ask for ANY of those things she is to do them where she is (not come back to me and THEN do them). She is to recall reliably. She does all of these things.

On the rare occasions when I leash her she is to walk on a loose lead. If I ask for her to walk in heel position, she is to look at my face and ignore everything else. She is to sit when I stop. Most of the leash time the leash is over her back and I am not holding it. 

I want my dog to work without need for a leash. It is important to me. My last dog never wore a collar because she was that reliable w/o a leash. She went in stores and everything and did as told.. no leash necessary.


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## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

For just a normal walk around the block, so to speak, I don't allow barking, fixations, or pulling. They can sniff, chase gasshoppers, and do whatever they want as long as they stop when I tell them to and keep slack in the lead. If I stop, they must stop and wait patiently. If I give them a command, they must follow it.


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## MrsJohnnyG (Jan 31, 2009)

Mine are the same but I do allow sniffing. Also if we come upon another leashed dog I ask if my puppies can say hello and if they're okay with it, I'll let them greet the other dog(s). They LOVE meeting new doggies and they love smelling things so I don't want to take that joy away from them unless I have to!


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Elana55 said:


> I want my dog to work without need for a leash. It is important to me. My last dog never wore a collar because she was that reliable w/o a leash. She went in stores and everything and did as told.. no leash necessary.


This is what I'm striving for also.

Unfortunately, I can't practice with stores (no dogs allowed in most, and even PetCo requires leashes *sigh*)

But this is what I want - I want Wally to work with me without having to be attached, physically, to me. I want him to literally have the free will to go anywhere he could - but have him still eagerly choose to follow and work with me.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

photo_grapher_gurl said:


> Mine are:
> 
> Can't walk in front of me
> No pulling
> ...


Why the control freak imitation? Why do you think they have something like 200 million scent receptors in their noses (compared to humans who have 5 million)? Fixations/staring? What does that mean? What if the staring is to make sure there's nothing around that's a threat? Or what if he's staring at a cute poodle? And why no walking in front of you? Is your dog's behind so unattractive that you can't bear looking at it?

I concede the point on pulling - there's no reason to allow that unless the dog is working (e.g. pulling you on a sled) or pulling you from a burning building or towards a sale at Petco. But the other stuff? As Seargent Hulka would say, "Lighten up Francis."


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

The only rules I have for leash walks are no pulling and no peeing in other peoples yards. Our walks are very casual, they normally walk in front of me on a loose lead, sniff what they want, and greet other dogs if the owner says it's ok. If I need them to do something specific for a specific situation that arises, I'll give a command for it.


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## Dunixi (Mar 16, 2009)

As long at Tiberius isn't pullling right now that makes me happy. Although when he sees Loca (his new doggie friend) he pulls a bit. Since Tiberius is scared of everything right now, he tends to stay right at my side or slightly behind me on our walks. He doesn't charge out the door or anything. He is very polite about letting the human out the doors (both front door and porch door) and driveway first. Once we are out of the driveway he gets a bit more exploratory.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

No special rules just for walks.

She has cues she knows. they are cues I use in a multitude of situations. but they are not walk specific.

she can sniff if she likes. She can walk wherever she pleases in relation to me. if I give her a cue and she doesn't respond(which these days is a non issue) she doesn't get her reward.


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## photo_grapher_gurl (Feb 27, 2009)

winniec777 said:


> Why the control freak imitation? Why do you think they have something like 200 million scent receptors in their noses (compared to humans who have 5 million)? Fixations/staring? What does that mean? What if the staring is to make sure there's nothing around that's a threat? Or what if he's staring at a cute poodle? And why no walking in front of you? Is your dog's behind so unattractive that you can't bear looking at it?
> 
> I concede the point on pulling - there's no reason to allow that unless the dog is working (e.g. pulling you on a sled) or pulling you from a burning building or towards a sale at Petco. But the other stuff? As Seargent Hulka would say, "Lighten up Francis."



Are you one of those people who start drama and arguments on forums? Because it sure is sounding like you're trying to. 

And it's called leadership. There is none without rules. Sorry but I don't let my dogs tell me what they're going to do-- I tell them what they're going to do. They're not people, they're dogs. I treat them like they're dogs. 

It's not like I'm the only one who has rules on walks anyways. 

Goodness.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

photo_grapher_gurl said:


> Are you one of those people who start drama and arguments on forums? Because it sure is sounding like you're trying to.
> 
> And it's called leadership. There is none without rules. Sorry but I don't let my dogs tell me what they're going to do-- I tell them what they're going to do. They're not people, they're dogs. I treat them like they're dogs.
> 
> ...


I think what winnie is saying is why those PARTICULAR rules...

if you go to a typical obedience type class they will likely teach a loose lead walk.Loose lead walking allows the dog to be a dog and get the doggie stimulation(sniffing, looking around, moving in different positions in relation to you) that makes a walk very very enjoyable to a dog by letting them exercise their natural abilities and not suppressing instinct.

Im sure your dogs enjoy their walks. but I know that once I could lighten up during walks, so could she. We play goofball games on walks like where I cue her to jump for the toy every x number of steps and she gets some hangtime as a reward as an example...I couldn't have that kind of interaction with her with all kinds of walking rules...


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

KBLover said:


> This is what I'm striving for also.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't practice with stores (no dogs allowed in most, and even PetCo requires leashes *sigh*)
> 
> But this is what I want - I want Wally to work with me without having to be attached, physically, to me. I want him to literally have the free will to go anywhere he could - but have him still eagerly choose to follow and work with me.


I had a dairy farm with my last dog and she was with me 24/7. We had to go and get parts at the dealer, go to the farm supply store and to the feed store fairly regularly. Those were the stores she went into. She was "correction based" trained (I never had heard of anything else when I got her). She had a serious and calm demeanor.. was never overly excited unless we were herding cattle.. and even then she was instantly obedient. She was a 95 pound (and slender at 95 pounds) GSD all German Bred. 

She was not a stranger aggressive dog... but (I have told this story b4) one day this fellow who was a trapper stopped in the barn. He was covered in Pheromones for setting traps. Kazi had met him before (and she typically NEVER forgot someone she had met) but his smell likely triggered something in her. 

She was at the far end of the barn and he stepped in the barn "man pass" door. Kazi did not bark.. she let our a very quiet low growl as she got up and took off toward this guy.. tail out straight NO hackles.. and at a DEAD run. I looked up from milking just in time.. she was launching for the guy's throat and I said sharply, "ENOUGH!!" and she literally FOLDED in mid air and landed at his feet in a heap all wagging and apologetic (submissive). 

I will say that our trapper friend never showed up again.. he collected his traps and that was that. 

and I will also say that Kazi was one heckuva dog. Very few I have seen or met since Kazi have been as good. Atka is getting there. She would *be* there if I still farmed and she was with me 24/7. Atka is mostly positive reinforcment trained (this would be 100% but I am not a great dog trainer and Pos. Reinf. is new to me with this dog).


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## deege39 (Dec 29, 2008)

I don't think there's anything wrong with incorporating rules when walking your dog... It's your dog, and you raise it how you want; So if you want to create rules and set boundaries, then that's your choice... Who cares if someone else thinks you're being too demanding?? : P 

If Donatello was more emotional stable, I too would teach him more tricks, and more rules... But we're having a hard enough time as it is.


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## Corteo (Jan 7, 2009)

Sobaka has two walks

Number one is a heel. When she is in heel she must:

1) always look at me to see what I'm doing.

2) no sniffing

3) no stopping

4) always must stay right at my side 

5) If I stop, she must sit, and hold that position until given another command.

Number two, is a louse walk

1) she can sniff or do anything as long as she does not pull or stop.

Guess which one Sobaka likes more!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

I don't think anyone is saying there is anything wrong with what one particular person does on walks.

but to someone like me, and this is just a me thing...being so rigid on walks is a bit alien. I don't understand the reasoning. it doesn't fit with anything I know about dogs. I used to be similar and it caused huge problems. So it's just a strange line of thought to me. 

I would hazard a guess that Winnie sees it similarly.


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## Toby4Life (Jun 2, 2008)

To each his own, but I would agree some are more strict than I could imagine being. I have one rule, don't pull. The rest of it really comes down to what I expect of Toby in all situations and that is simply to listen to me.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Elana55 said:


> I had a dairy farm with my last dog and she was with me 24/7. We had to go and get parts at the dealer, go to the farm supply store and to the feed store fairly regularly. Those were the stores she went into. She was "correction based" trained (I never had heard of anything else when I got her). She had a serious and calm demeanor.. was never overly excited unless we were herding cattle.. and even then she was instantly obedient. She was a 95 pound (and slender at 95 pounds) GSD all German Bred.
> 
> She was not a stranger aggressive dog... but (I have told this story b4) one day this fellow who was a trapper stopped in the barn. He was covered in Pheromones for setting traps. Kazi had met him before (and she typically NEVER forgot someone she had met) but his smell likely triggered something in her.
> 
> ...



Wow - what a story! You probably saved that trapper's life  

That was awesome how you got Kazi to stop like that, even while in the middle of the action - I would have liked to see that (well, except for someone about to get their throat yanked out)

You might say you're not a great trainer, but you got Kazi to stop dead in her tracks in midair while highly charged-up and intense. I'd say that's a great job of training, no matter how you did it! 

Thanks for the story, really great!



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> I don't think anyone is saying there is anything wrong with what one particular person does on walks.
> 
> but to someone like me, and this is just a me thing...being so rigid on walks is a bit alien. I don't understand the reasoning. it doesn't fit with anything I know about dogs. I used to be similar and it caused huge problems. So it's just a strange line of thought to me.
> 
> I would hazard a guess that Winnie sees it similarly.


From my point of view, Wally needs to learn more self-control while outside. He's good with it inside, so now it's time to transfer it outside. 

I don't think self-control is too strict for a dog. I also don't think I'm being rather unreasonable with my rules. 

And, I don't see how not being able to walk 20 feet in front of me would hinder his walks. We're going to get to that spot - in fact, faster, if he stays with me, then he can sniff as he wishes. Again, trying to teach him self-control and impulse control and using the Premack-style to get the point across and still let him get to do what he so badly wanted. I get controlled behavior, he gets to sniff the green off the grass. Win-win.

The end result will be even more fun. That's how he got to be off-leash in the first place, and now he can go sniffing around and wander around following scent trails and sticking his nose under bushes and in brush. It's how we can run around and play chase, even in small areas near the neighborhood streets (thanks to a no-going on the street alone rule) and give him the okay to chase a squirrel knowing I can call him back and that he won't just bolt after it, even if it moves around in his field of vision. 

So some might call them restrictive, but the point is to develop his ability for self-control so that he can have even more freedom at the end.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TWENTY FEET?!?!?!?  

my leashes are NEVER more than six feet long.


...of course...I don't believe any dog should be unleashed in uncontained areas. period. Just IMO. I don't believe there is such a thing as a 100% fully trained cue. If there was....why would we need to keep working on them after each cue has been fully comprehended?


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> TWENTY FEET?!?!?!?
> 
> my leashes are NEVER more than six feet long.


The one I have is a long line that I wrap up around my hand to varying lengths.

Sometimes it's six feet - sometimes its 20, sometimes its 4, no matter - it has to be loose and he in position.



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> ...of course...I don't believe any dog should be unleashed in uncontained areas. period. Just IMO. I don't believe there is such a thing as a 100% fully trained cue. If there was....why would we need to keep working on them after each cue has been fully comprehended?


And how can he practice the cue off-leash to further his ability and discipline if I never give him the opportunity to work it in the situation? Especially since dogs are context learners - how can I be sure he's not understanding it on-leash but not off? How can I be sure the cue he's learned, even 85% on-leash, will still be 85% when off leash?

I don't know if there's no such thing as 100%. I mean, I tell him to sit - he sits. It's something that's been connected so long, he might not even "think" about it anymore - it's just hear "sit" sound, butt just drops on the ground. 

But let's say there's no perfect cues ever, and he won't have 100% mistake free self-control, but he'd never get better at it if I don't let him work in the situation. I want him to get better at all possible situations I can think of and safely train him in so that any mistake won't be critical and unrecoverable, and since there's PLENTY of places he can practice being off-leash without any critical mistakes, I think it's a great opportunity for training.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

KBLover said:


> That was awesome how you got Kazi to stop like that, even while in the middle of the action - I would have liked to see that (well, except for someone about to get their throat yanked out)
> 
> You might say you're not a great trainer, but you got Kazi to stop dead in her tracks in midair while highly charged-up and intense. I'd say that's a great job of training, no matter how you did it!
> 
> Thanks for the story, really great!


Glad you liked the story, but I was not in the LEAST surprised she stopped like she did. Not at all.

You see, that is what herding is (part of the time). It is a highly charged directed chase game to the dog. With cattle it can sometimes get pretty fast.. and you absolutely MUST be able to redirect the dog from one cow to another or to NO cows (stop). If you cannot you will end up with the cows through or over a fence. Anyone who had EVER milked a cow with teats cut by barbed wire will try to avoid this. 

Kazi worked cattle and she would grip their hocks (turn her head sideways and bite.. not real hard) if they were recalcitrant. I could stop her from biting with "enough!" I can remember times where she was on a cow and ready to grip and I needed her somewhere else and had her stop on a whistle to go for another animal (or just not go for that one). If I was close enough I could actually hear her teeth clip shut together as she avoided the grip. 

I was on a horse and the horse and the dog worked together. It was an experience like none other on this earth. The dairy cows were sold the end of 1996 and the heifers and horses sold in 1999 when I was divorced and moved off the farm. 

To this day I will dream about working cattle with that dog and the horse. Farming, the land and the animals and the machines.. my sweetest memories. 

I have had great fortune having some really wonderful animals (and boy do I have stories! I could bore you for hours. LOL).

My aim, BTW, is for every dog I train to achieve the off leash Gold Standard of Kazi. Less is unacceptable.... 

Poor Atka....


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Elana55 said:


> Glad you liked the story, but I was not in the LEAST surprised she stopped like she did. Not at all.
> 
> You see, that is what herding is (part of the time). It is a highly charged directed chase game to the dog. With cattle it can sometimes get pretty fast.. and you absolutely MUST be able to redirect the dog from one cow to another or to NO cows (stop). If you cannot you will end up with the cows through or over a fence. Anyone who had EVER milked a cow with teats cut by barbed wire will try to avoid this.
> 
> ...



Almost wish I was a farmer now  Maybe I should get some stuffed cows and put them in the garden so I can act like I'm on the farm 

I can't even imagine what that was like working together for such a demanding job! Also can't imagine what the training would be like for a herding dog - wouldn't even know where to begin. I mean, some is probably just innate breed-instinct ability, but still have to know how to control and direct it as you mentioned. 

Hehehe, Atka does have some major shoes to fill and a trainer that knows it's not an impossible dream. Go Atka! You can do it! (Don't know how many times I've said that to Wally - the you can do it part that is  )

I don't think you'd bore me, but I think there's a wanna-be farm boy somewhere inside me. Might be one reason I want to grow my own food in my backyard


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Note I said off leash in *uncontained* areas.

My main reason for this stance isn't nessecarily because of the dog(though with my current DA girl it is.). It because of all the other potential variables. 

I had one dog I did let off leash in the woods with about a hundred miles of woods in any direction...first thing she does? get into a fight with a badger. 

In the city there are strangers, bunchers, untrained dogs running offleash because their owners see other dogs offleash and assume their dog will immediately behave the same, cars, and with my breed there is a. the risk of being stolen for fighting purposes and b. the panic an offleash pit bull can cause simply by standing there being a pit bull.. and various other variables. I know it can happen that for a good part of a dog's life they can be offleash in uncontained areas and be fine. But Chance is just that...chance. 

just IMHO. no offence intended.


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## deege39 (Dec 29, 2008)

KBLover said:


> The one I have is a long line that I wrap up around my hand to varying lengths. Sometimes it's six feet - sometimes its 20, sometimes its 4, no matter - it has to be loose.


When I first got Donatello I had a 5ft leash, then a month later upgraded to a 15ft leash... Now I have a high-tech retractable 16ft leash with matching detachable poopie-bag-dispenser. lol!

When I used the 15ft leash, I was constantly wrapping and unwrapping the leash... It was a hassle when I would take him anywhere, so that's when I got him the retractable leash.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

merg. three fourths of my last post to this thread got eaten somehow.


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## MarleysGirl (Apr 11, 2008)

Different times call for different measures with us. If there are days we are training then I am more strict on the heel and no stopping to sniff. Other times we go for a more leisurely walk and I will let him stop and sniff certain areas and he doesnt have to be in a perfect heel, as long as he isnt pulling me or walking too far infront of me.
I also dont let him pee on peoples yards and if there is another dog coming then he has to sit and calm before he is aloud to say hi.
Alot of times we go for runs and then it is only stopping for bathroom breaks and thats it.


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## Allie3985 (Jul 19, 2008)

winniec777 said:


> Why the control freak imitation? Why do you think they have something like 200 million scent receptors in their noses (compared to humans who have 5 million)? Fixations/staring? What does that mean? What if the staring is to make sure there's nothing around that's a threat? Or what if he's staring at a cute poodle? And why no walking in front of you? Is your dog's behind so unattractive that you can't bear looking at it?
> 
> I concede the point on pulling - there's no reason to allow that unless the dog is working (e.g. pulling you on a sled) or pulling you from a burning building or towards a sale at Petco. But the other stuff? As Seargent Hulka would say, "Lighten up Francis."


Where to begin. . .first off this thread was asking everyone how they personally walk their dog. This is a matter of opinion anyway so this may be how you choose to handle your dog but he/she is not the same as everyone else's dog and some may need some more direction than that. 

What if he is fixated on a cute poodle? Then he probably wants to attack, play, mount, ect. this dog REALLY bad and you should probably try to get his attention back on the walk or on you before you have him hitting the end of the leash, barking, pulling towards the poodle, ect. It is a lot easier to distract the dog when you see the potential problem then to get him back under control once he has decided to go. I would guess that most people understand that what is meant by "fixations/staring" by the original poster is similiar to what I just described and not just a passive gaze or an alert watchfullness.

If you know you have an easily distracted dog and one that is hard to keep under control during a walk then I think it is great to make the dog focus on walking and on following you and not on sniffing the ground or what is going on around him/her. If you are at the point that you do not have to do these things and your dog can politely trott around in front, beside, or behind you with his nose to the ground, then good for you!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I think, again, it's a simple matter of what we expect our dogs to do, and what we deem sufficient self-control with our dogs. When I walk my dogs, all I expect from them in terms of self-control is a) to walk on a loose leash and b) not get freaked out by any insignificant stimuli. If I upped the criteria and insisted that while walking they do a) and b), but also c) keep their eyes on me and d) remain in strict position, I probably could, but I don't foresee any need for that. Since I don't compete in obedience, or have any need for their eyes on me while walking, I don't require them to be good at it. With extensive training, I might even be able to walk them off-leash, but even if their training were reliable enough, I wouldn't trust the number of variables outside of my control to keep my dogs safe... thus I have no need or desire for them to ever be off-leash, and I don't work to achieve it. (It's also because I know my dogs are at their happiest when they're sniffing outdoors, and asking them to focus on me would just be subtracting a huge part of their walk for them... )

No one's saying that some members are too uptight, and others too slack. Once again, we all train according to what we desire from our dogs. Elana trains Atka to heel off-leash and recall 100%. Zim has no desire for Bolo to ever be off-leash, so she doesn't work on off-leash heeling. Zim trains Bolo to follow a scented trail. Elana (presumably) has never required Atka to be skilled at this, so she hasn't worked on it.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> I think what winnie is saying is why those PARTICULAR rules...
> 
> if you go to a typical obedience type class they will likely teach a loose lead walk.Loose lead walking allows the dog to be a dog and get the doggie stimulation(sniffing, looking around, moving in different positions in relation to you) that makes a walk very very enjoyable to a dog by letting them exercise their natural abilities and not suppressing instinct.
> 
> Im sure your dogs enjoy their walks. but I know that once I could lighten up during walks, so could she. We play goofball games on walks like where I cue her to jump for the toy every x number of steps and she gets some hangtime as a reward as an example...I couldn't have that kind of interaction with her with all kinds of walking rules...





zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> I don't think anyone is saying there is anything wrong with what one particular person does on walks.
> 
> but to someone like me, and this is just a me thing...being so rigid on walks is a bit alien. I don't understand the reasoning. it doesn't fit with anything I know about dogs. I used to be similar and it caused huge problems. So it's just a strange line of thought to me.
> 
> I would hazard a guess that Winnie sees it similarly.


Thanks, Zim. That is what I was getting at. Posting those particular rules without context, without explaining (as KBLover did so well) why those particular rules are used begs a lot of questions and invites admittedly snarky comments from leg-pullers like me. I have one criterion for walks with my dog, and I imagine my dog agrees: Fun with a capital “F.” I'm a simple girl and following a simple rule like dog = fun works best for me. If she couldn't sniff and explore she wouldn't be having any fun (remember those 200 million scent receptors) and since I get my fun from learning from her and watching her reactions, I wouldn't be having any fun, either. Obedience for safety's sake I get and it certainly has its place on a walk. Obedience to get a job done is laudable (Elana's posts are the stuff movies are made of). But obedience for obedience sake or because of some notion that you must be in charge at all times, well, that I just don't get. 

An aside: go read some of Zim’s posts about her work with dogs and you’ll understand why keen observation is one of the most important tools in your dog training bag. She gets amazing results because she truly understands dogs and knows how to anticipate their behavior by watching them. Do you know how hard that is to do? Much harder than forcing the dog’s attention on you all the time with rote training. And much more effective, I believe. If I insist on my dog always being a certain way when we walk, when she plays, when she eats, etc., etc., when do *I *do the learning I need to do by watching her so that I can be a better trainer? Just a thought.

To the OP, a few comments...

- JMO, but I think one should hang around a forum for a while, get to know folks before resorting to saying things like "those people" to them. On the other hand, I do know that the internets are not for the faint of heart, so I’ll take my lumps like a man, er, a woman, um…human thing and let that slide. (Being PC is so challenging at times…)

-You said "They're not people, they're dogs. I treat them like they're dogs." You lost me right there with that, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, I promise you. I truly don't understand that sentiment. I treat people with respect (well, mostly), I treat dogs with respect. I have expectations for people, I have expectations for my dog. Are they the same ones? Of course not. People look silly in a down-stay and generally get arrested for sniffing other people's butts. 

But the way you say "treat them like dogs" sounds like you have some kind of master/servant model in mind. Again, JMO, but I'm not arrogant enough to assume that my species is the one that should be in charge just because we're the ones with the opposable thumbs and the leashes. Yes, I can do calculus and she can't (at least she hasn't yet) but she can do so many other amazing things that I've learned that I don't have one scintilla of an idea of what she or any other creature is capable of. I'm open to the possibilities is what I'm saying. That's why the rules in my life are simple -- there’s less revision required when you find out you’re wrong or when you learn something new. 

Having said all this, I honestly don't care how people walk their dogs as long as no dogs or people or actors get hurt in the process. But...keep in mind that you just might be missing something with your insistence on strict obedience throughout the whole walk.


P.S. to self….use more smiley emoticons next time….Goodness!!


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## Trainer (Feb 18, 2009)

I have two rules when walking my dogs.

1. Don't chase critters off the property. When they cross the property line, you stop. They won this one. Perhaps you can get them next time.

2. When you hear my whistle, go find me and check in. I usually whistle when they have been out of my sight for 3 or 4 minutes.

My dogs love to go for walks.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

As long as my two aren't pulling, I'm happy! 

With Willow, we've worked for over 6 months and have only NOW gotten to the point where she doesn't consistently pull. That doesn't mean she can heel yet. She is very "set" in her ways and it has taken a lot of walks to get her this far, and no-pull harnesses and head halters have admittedly helped. Walks, for her, are hugely stimulating - she spends the whole time scanning for prey/other dogs/whatever. But then, she's a very sensitive and high-strung girl.

Bandit is the complete opposite. He regards our walks as "quality time" and wants to be close to me. He walks ahead of me on a slack leash, but often he'll stop dead in his tracks, look at me and I'll practically fall over him! He tends to re-orient himself to me often, and I like that - but he needs to learn to keep walking, and not to stop while sniffing things along the ground.

So, I guess my rules are -

Absolutely no pulling
Walking ahead of me is OK as long as line is slack
Sniffing while walking is OK, just don't stop
Calmly pass other dogs (having trouble with this one with Willow!)

Winnie, I have to say I LOVED your post. My feelings exactly - walks are supposed to be fun for my guys, a chance to get out and stretch, and explore the world. We usually head to some fun "destination" on our walks - the river about a mile through the woods to go swimming, or down to the boathouse to chat with folks, grab snacks (for both dog AND human), and people-watch. And while walking Bandit, I love to play "chase games" spontaneously throughout the walk on-leash. Just get the little guy revved up, and then sprint and leap around, playing on the trail. He LOVES it and it keeps his focus on me even more, just waiting for that moment when I might go nuts again.


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## Allie3985 (Jul 19, 2008)

There are TONS of things that you can do with a dog besides a walk that allows them to sniff and run and play and have awesome super happy fun time! I consider dog on leash near me "taking a walk" and this is around the neighborhood where there are tons of distractions and dangers. This is not the time that I choose to let the girls have their exploring adventures. We do this with frequent hiking trips, playing games in the backyard, running agility and flyball (well, ok, no sniffing here!), running in a field, ect.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that a lot of people don't need to feel so "uptight" on their walks. It is definately personal preference. This is just my take on the subject.


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