# anyone ever seen a catahoula do schutzhund?



## Warren Hound

planning to get a catahoula and was curious if anyone had ever run across one that does schutzhund?

my very ...uh opinionated friends that do protection work are of the mind that nothing but a GSD will do it and they might excel in it but i do not believe they are the end all ;p

catahoulas are a herding and hunting breed that excel in bay, tracking, herding and catching.

(add: litter i am on reserve for is workline, looking to compete with and was curious about schutzhund)


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## packetsmom

They'd probably be awesome in tracking and I see no reason why they couldn't do well in obedience. The only thing I'd wonder about is if they'd have the drive for protection.

You'll never know unless you try and you can compete for obedience and tracking titles without protection, so why not give it a go? I would say it will be important to really scout out clubs to make sure you find one that is supportive of off-breeds, which can take some looking. I would NOT recommend training protection without a club.


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## PatriciafromCO

majority of Herding line GSDs fall short in bite work,, they don't drop out of the womb with a desire to tear into something.. as they are not suppose to eat the livestock by design.. So you can't fault the dog ,, just as you wouldn't fault a working line that tears up the livestock. I do feel that both working and herding lines can do both with the right foundation training and understanding what you are working with and what the dogs needs are in learning to accomplish the task. One dog needs confidence building them up and the other needs confidence toning it down.. All my guys were herders and I focused on engage skills first and not worry about speed and intensity... intensity came later when they were confident in their skills.. It was like dancing step step step to begin with then you could be fluent and speed it up and they got it and did well passing certifications for patrol work by military standards.. .. I have never toned down a working line but no doubt in the right hands the right person would be successful.. My only caution is what trainer you work with.. I had a GE hard working line trainer and I was constantly toning him down to stay at the correct level of training for the dog and not set a dog up to be corrected... Build confidence not break the dog down...


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## Warren Hound

thanks for the info you two =] i went and searched around some more and DID find some individuals that had, had some great success with them. and PatriciafromCO "they don't drop out of the womb with a desire to tear into something" lol not to hear some of them tell it but i agree with you just wish more of them realized that


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## Greater Swiss

Warren Hound said:


> my very ...uh opinionated friends that do protection work are of the mind that nothing but a GSD will do it and they might excel in it but i do not believe they are the end all ;p


 This opinion may be the reason that you are having a hard time finding a catahoula that does shutzhund. I've found that even those clubs who try to be open minded about off-breeds in Schutzhund give a little less attention to the off-breeds (especially when the owner is a newbie). Yes, there is a predisposition for being good at it, especially the protection work, but really, if your dog ends up liking a good game of tug, and has some good self control then there is no reason they can't be at very least decent at it and get many titles in all three parts of the sport. If the drive for the protection work is minimal, but there is a little, you can build on that, but don't expect to do fantastic in protection, but don't forget, so long as things look good the points are usually still awarded even if your dog isn't a natural (though if that were the case, I'd go more for something that your dog likes....)

I will say though, if Catahoula's have any guardian or protective tendencies (and if I remember right they do have some), watch for that and make sure to keep a good balance between Schutzhund working mode and behavior in the home. I was warned of this by a Schutzhund judge that I talked to who actually nailed Caeda's breed (I've never ever had someone come up and ask which Sennenhund type she was, everybody asks if she is a beagle although she is a very small Swissy). Swissy's have guardian tendencies in their lines, so it was mentioned to me and I have to say, I've seen subtle signs of it and it did become more obvious as I did protection with her. If I hadn't been warned of it I probably wouldn't have noticed and it probably could get worse.....just something to keep in mind, it is much easier to deal with caught early. At very least, make sure during training you have the obedience and control nailed down before delving a great deal into the protection work.

BTW, did a quick Youtube google, and I found this it isn't competition, but it is early protection work. Looks like the dog has a good bite at least! Supposedly a Catahoula, though a little hard to tell for sure....


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## elrohwen

Just saw this thread. I know a woman with two houlas, who is very involved in the breed. Not sure about her girl, but I think her boy would be fantastic at Sch. Both of her dogs are highly trained in obedience, and they seem to be suited to it as a breed, so I don't think you'd have a problem there. The tracking is something they could easily do, being hunting dogs (one of them is doing well in my nosework class). The protection part would be most difficult, but knowing what I do about these dogs, and meeting her dogs in person, I think certain individuals would do well at it.


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## quatro

Any breed can "do" schutzhund, there are a million people who do schutzhund but very few "achieve" goals. Doing and achieving are 2 totally different targets.


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## CptJack

quatro said:


> Any breed can "do" schutzhund, there are a million people who do schutzhund but very few "achieve" goals. Doing and achieving are 2 totally different targets.


Well, yes, and this is true of every dog sport out there. I 'do' agility, but I'll never so much as enter a trial, much less title my dog. Why? Because I don't care that much. Most people want the bonding, the training and the work out for their dog. Also the fact of the matter is 'winning' means being the best of the best. Most dogs aren't going to be that. 

It's not an issue.


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## Greater Swiss

quatro said:


> Any breed can "do" schutzhund, there are a million people who do schutzhund but very few "achieve" goals. Doing and achieving are 2 totally different targets.


Yes, but those who have an "off breed" do tend to get taken a little less seriously, and not just in terms of their goals, but in terms of their dog's capabilities. The dog itself may have a little less to do with it's success than the perception of the breed and the attention given to it (and the handler) in some cases. Sometimes going out and bonding (as mentioned by Cpt Jack) can be the goal....depending on the club and how they work it may be achievable, or may not be.


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## quatro

It is all about the probability of taking a puppy to Schh3/IPO3 level. Even dogs that are purposely bred for this lifestyle have a very low success rate, that rate becomes infinitely lower with non purpose bred dogs. But fact is that people do win the Lotto! will you?


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## elrohwen

I asked the woman I know with houlas and she has actually done Sch with both of hers. She didn't do protection with the male because of his personality (she said his defensive drive was too high I think) but they did well and he has his BH. She ended up quitting because the club was falling apart, but otherwise her dogs were pretty well suited for it. Maybe not as much as a dog purposely bred for it, but definitely more than most breeds out there.


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## quatro

That's pretty cool, any dog for that matter should be able to do a BH. It is not a title and involves only basic obedience exercises.


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## elrohwen

quatro said:


> That's pretty cool, any dog for that matter should be able to do a BH. It is not a title and involves only basic obedience exercises.


Yes, it's basic obedience, but still impressive. She also has other (AKC/UKC) obedience titles on both of her dogs. 

She has done Sch tracking, but I'm not sure how titling works for that. Protection was the only thing she chose not to do for whatever reason


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