# Giant Schnauzer owners?



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I was just wondering if there were any Giant owners on the board?

I've started looking at breeders and I know so far who to stay AWAY from, but not who to GO to x.x

Suggestions? Information? Cautions?


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm not an owner, sorry. But I'd suggest contacting the local breed club, talking with people. Get to know them. Find out who's breeding, talk to them. Meet their dogs. Find the breeder who's opinions you respect, who thinks along the same lines as you do. Basically, start talking to people, figure out who you like and trust and start learning from them who to go to. A breeder who truly loves and supports their breed will point you to another reputable breeder if they don't have a litter available.

edited to add that your title caught my attention b/c I have a Standard Schnauzer and my hubby really wanted a Giant, but we never looked into the Giants.... our cars are too small!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

They're not common enough that I've bumped into very many, but the two that I spent any time around were very drivey dogs. They were Euro-import Schutzhund types, and a real handful. Sound as a $20 gold piece, but not dogs for the faint of heart.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm betting you already have this link/have checked out the site but if not, here's the Giant Schnauzer Cub of America's home page http://www.giantschnauzerclubofamerica.com/index.htm

They might have some useful information for you regarding different breeders and such. There's also a message board but it doesn't look particularly active.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

ooh! one of my favorite breeds. Are you considering one?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I've been to the breed site many times over the last couple years  Giants were on my list of "Want someday" when I was dogless (GSDs weren't even on the list at ALL!).

I think a Giant would be good for my next service dog. I've met (and know) many breeders, but do not agree with some of their practices (ethics in the show ring), and there is one kennel everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY) tells me not to go to (one of the rare agreements by a majority in the show world).

I do not know Giants inside and I like I do the Shepherds, that much I will admit, but it is more on the side of anatomical knowledge than knowledge of temperament (I have met many).

I've been searching for Giant/General Schnauzer forums and the couple that do show up are basically dead boards 

For those who wonder why I would want a Giant, there are a number of reasons.

They have similar health issues to the GSD, but they do not appear to be as numerous, and many are easily tested for. I appreciate their steadfast nature and general overall soundness. I have rarely met a skittish Giant. They are forward and pushy, which I like in a dog. They are also relatively independent, but not so much so that they blow you off ALL the time.

I'm looking for a service dog to replace Strauss, so something slightly more independent than a GSD may be an advantage this time around. Sometimes my dog does need to make decisions for me. Admittedly this is not really something that can be formally trained. It's partially intuition and partially the dog learning as he goes...inadvertent training.

Also, I LOVE the coat. I do. I really really do. Grooming is bonding time for my dogs, and I do not mind hand stripping. I can learn the scissoring (I want to show too, just like I do with Moose). I do have a lot of trouble walking these days, but as long as I can walk and run without falling every two seconds, I'll keep competing in obedience and agility. If I stumble, I stumble, but I won't give it up.


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## aokisweet (Apr 17, 2009)

Sounds perfect. I have seen nothing but good thing's. That was one of our considerations a while ago.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

They're the cutest little squish faces too! I've set up a time to talk to Christine Lietzau of Momentumm 

And Inga, we must get some new stack pictures of Carsten for his breeder! Plus, I just love having a Rottie to play with


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

What! Xeph without a GSD?! I do hope you'll be getting another kind of German pup to go along with this possible one!


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Xeph said:


> I appreciate their steadfast nature and general overall soundness. I have rarely met a skittish Giant. They are forward and pushy, which I like in a dog. They are also relatively independent, but not so much so that they blow you off ALL the time.
> 
> I'm looking for a service dog to replace Strauss, so something slightly more independent than a GSD may be an advantage this time around. Sometimes my dog does need to make decisions for me. Admittedly this is not really something that can be formally trained. It's partially intuition and partially the dog learning as he goes...inadvertent training.
> 
> Also, I LOVE the coat. I do. I really really do. Grooming is bonding time for my dogs, and I do not mind hand stripping. I can learn the scissoring (I want to show too, just like I do with Moose). ...


Have you looked into a BRT???


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I know which "show breeder" you have been told not to go to. They are pretty much a "show mill".

GS can truly be a handful, much more independent than a GSD and the first several years are a LOT of work. But I too admire their spunk and tenacity, they are certainly very drivey and will NOT tolerate rough handling, not due to being soft, but because they will come back with equal force. LOL.

To the previous poster..I have met a few BRT's...and I don't know if it just a breeder thing but they do not seem to have a very good temperament..at least the one's I've seen here in T.O. They all seem to be bite first think later. A dog that large (and a terrier at that) must have sound temperament to be a safe dog.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

I've only met 1 Giant owner and spent an afternoon with her and her male GS. She has had them in her family forever but now only gets her dogs through rescue. She finds that many people are unprepared and end up surrendering them b/c they get in over their heads with the breed. Your comments on the breed seem to be right on. They are not a breed for the faint o heart. Frankly I am NOT a person to own a GSD, Dobe or GS. 

As an aside what is a BRT? not that I'm interested lol, just isn't an acronym I recognize.

Crackers comment about not using rough handling with GS serves for alot of guard dog breeds I suspect. They are smart and do better with positive training. am i right?? I mean I don't know any breed you can strong arm, but I guess the more submissive types let you get away with it?????


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

NRB said:


> Crackers comment about not using rough handling with GS serves for alot of guard dog breeds I suspect. They are smart and do better with positive training. am i right?? I mean I don't know any breed you can strong arm, but I guess the more submissive types let you get away with it?????


Opinions differ on the subject, but any type of training has to be undertaken with an eye towards fairness. These dogs are bred to fight a man, to the death if necessary. Convincing one to fear you (not very easily done) is the very last thing you'd ever want to do.


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## meghf (Jul 12, 2009)

Oh I am so excited for you! They are beautiful dogs. When my family was researching dogs we looked into Giants (we wanted a large, non shedding dog). I am sure glad we went with a standard poodle as we were first time puppy owners (had a rescued golden retriever in the past) and probably very very unprepared for what a Giant would have thrown our way. For a well seasoned handler, I'm sure you'd know exactly how to handle him/her. Good luck with your search and I can't wait to see pics!


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

BRT = Black Russian Terrier, I believe.


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## .308 (Jul 26, 2009)

Can I ask as to how you go about getting a service dog?

Reason why I ask is I did some work for the blind, and from my limited experience in voulenteering, usually the person looking/applying for the serivce dog doesn't really have a choice as to the breed of dog they want, but more along the lines that the dog is "matched" to the persons needs and would be the best "fit" in the organizations (service dog) opinion.

An old girlfriends brother owned a Giant Schnauzer, and I realize a breed can't be generalized by experiencing one dog of that particular breed, from what I saw and experienced with that one dog, an American Pit Bull Terrier would probably make a better canidate for a service dog than a Giant Schnauzer.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> They're not common enough that I've bumped into very many, but the two that I spent any time around were very drivey dogs. They were Euro-import Schutzhund types, and a real handful. Sound as a $20 gold piece, but not dogs for the faint of heart.


Are these what a lot of people refer to as Riesenschnauzers? Apparently there are a couple at the local Schutzhund club here. Wish I could have seen them work!


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

.308 said:


> Can I ask as to how you go about getting a service dog?
> 
> Reason why I ask is I did some work for the blind, and from my limited experience in voulenteering, usually the person looking/applying for the serivce dog doesn't really have a choice as to the breed of dog they want, but more along the lines that the dog is "matched" to the persons needs and would be the best "fit" in the organizations (service dog) opinion.
> 
> An old girlfriends brother owned a Giant Schnauzer, and I realize a breed can't be generalized by experiencing one dog of that particular breed, from what I saw and experienced with that one dog, an American Pit Bull Terrier would probably make a better canidate for a service dog than a Giant Schnauzer.


Depends. People who are experienced with training can train their own service dog. The organizations that provide service dogs will match the dog to you. But there's no registry for service dogs. If you say it's a service dog, then it is one. The technical definition, if I recall correctly, is that the dog must know 3 things to aid in your disability.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Equinox said:


> Are these what a lot of people refer to as Riesenschnauzers?


"Riesen" is the german word for "giant".


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## .308 (Jul 26, 2009)

RBark said:


> Depends. People who are experienced with training can train their own service dog. The organizations that provide service dogs will match the dog to you. But there's no registry for service dogs.


That sounds like it can open a can of worms up.

I would of thought that a service dog had to have some form of a license due to the training the animal must recieve for the service it provides an individual, which exempts that dog from legal restrictions placed on other dogs?


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> "Riesen" is the german word for "giant".


Got it, thanks! 

I was looking at the results list of the Schutzhund trial on the club website and save the Riesen Schnauzer, didn't bother to think it was German.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I plan on training this SD the same as I did with Strauss...by myself. I don't want to go through a program for a number of reasons, one of them being that many programs these days only use Goldens or Labs, and I don't want either of those dogs.

The programs that DO use Shepherds are usually guide dogs for the blind, and I am not blind. The application process is also quite long and there is no guarantee you will be accepted.

If I raise my own puppy there is also no guarantee that he will pass all the tests to be a service dog, but at least I'll have a breed of dog I like and can live with.

Something I have noticed about the Giants is that they are a lot like the GSD in training. You cannot strongarm them, that is true, but they CAN take a correction if it is a fair one. It should not be terribly harsh and they are not as forgiving as the Shepherds, but it will not kill them if you pop the collar to correct a behavior.


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## .308 (Jul 26, 2009)

> plan on training this SD the same as I did with Strauss...by myself. I don't want to go through a program for a number of reasons, one of them being that many programs these days only use Goldens or Labs, and I don't want either of those dogs.


If I were your father (which I'm not) and I know my advice will fall on deaf ears, but IMO it's not a question of what you want, but what you need.



> If I raise my own puppy there is also no guarantee that he will pass all the tests to be a service dog, but at least I'll have a breed of dog I like and can live with.


But than you'll have Strauss, another dog (GS) and you'll still need another service dog. Can you handle or want three dogs?

I'm not trying to be argumentitive, but point out potential pitfalls in your line of thinking which could cause you less grief down the road.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

.308 said:


> That sounds like it can open a can of worms up.
> 
> I would of thought that a service dog had to have some form of a license due to the training the animal must recieve for the service it provides an individual, which exempts that dog from legal restrictions placed on other dogs?


Can, yes. Sometimes it does. But honestly, the aim here is to make life easier on people who are already disabled. Making them have to jump through hurdles and work hard just to get something that helps them go through life easier - that's not to say easy as a person that's not disabled, just easier than currently is... is unfair as well. To a physically sound person, it may look exploitable.. to a disabled person, it's a blessing they rarely get.

Any attempt to make it have more requirements will just make things harder for disabled people. Yes, this does mean that people that arent disabled can simply walk into a building and say it is a service dog and they are disabled (even if they are not). But I'm willing to accept that rather than the alternative- making life harder for those who are disabled.




.308 said:


> If I were your father (which I'm not) and I know my advice will fall on deaf ears, but IMO it's not a question of what you want, but what you need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It can take up to three years to get a service dog that is a good match to you. As an, ironically, deaf person... I decided to train my own service dog in Priscilla, my German Shepherd. Unfortunately she passed away due to an accident. There are many factors into this, and it's a matter of balancing want and need.

Furthermore, you do not have to NEED a service dog. It is ok to want it. Can I live my life relatively normal as a deaf person without a service dog? Yes, very much so. So do I NEED a service dog? No, I do not. Do I want one? Yes. Do I want a second dog? Yes. If Priscilla did not have what is required to be a service dog, she would simply be my companion dog that I would train to do Agility, Schutzhund, Obedience, and so on with. So I win either way.

There are very few people who need a service dog, mostly the blind who absolutely need them to function in life. However that is not a demerit against those who simply want it to alleviate certain parts of their life.


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## meghf (Jul 12, 2009)

RBark said:


> Can, yes. Sometimes it does. But honestly, the aim here is to make life easier on people who are already disabled. Making them have to jump through hurdles and work hard just to get something that helps them go through life easier - that's not to say easy as a person that's not disabled, just easier than currently is... is unfair as well. To a physically sound person, it may look exploitable.. to a disabled person, it's a blessing they rarely get.
> 
> Any attempt to make it have more requirements will just make things harder for disabled people. Yes, this does mean that people that arent disabled can simply walk into a building and say it is a service dog and they are disabled (even if they are not). But I'm willing to accept that rather than the alternative- making life harder for those who are disabled.
> 
> ...


Very, very well said.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Another factor is the enormous range of possible disabilities. The service dog may be called upon to do things that are unique to its owner, and that would wreak havoc on attempts to standardize certifications. I do think a dog should pass basic obedience and temperament tests before getting a "go anywhere" card.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

The Giants that I knew I would compare to a Rottie with strong working lines. They are a smart, rugged working dog. I love them.

Xeph, We will have to do the picture thing one of these days. I can tell you need a Rottie fix.   They are like a drug, once you try them, you can't leave them alone. ha ha


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Marsh Muppet said:


> Another factor is the enormous range of possible disabilities. The service dog may be called upon to do things that are unique to its owner, and that would wreak havoc on attempts to standardize certifications. I do think a dog should pass basic obedience and temperament tests before getting a "go anywhere" card.


I agree in a sense. The standard I set for myself, and by no means do I think that this should be mandated to all others, is that Priscilla needed her CGC before she would be allowed to enter buildings. I felt that is a reasonable start. it does not mean she is "ready", it just means she has enough training to begin the training in stores.


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## HersheyBear (Dec 13, 2008)

If you're a Dogster member, you might want to ask Tiller's owner - they are a Giant Schnauzer expert.,


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> If I were your father (which I'm not) and I know my advice will fall on deaf ears, but IMO it's not a question of what you want, but what you need.


.308, I don't think you entirely understand the whole process. Part of having a service dog IS getting the right breed when you are a dog person. I will be partnered with this dog for 8-10 years....it has to be a breed I can live with. If you do not have a bond with the dog you cannot fully trust it as your partner.



> I'm not trying to be argumentitive, but point out potential pitfalls in your line of thinking which could cause you less grief down the road


But you assume I've not thought of it myself.
Many many people who end up needing a service dog have never had a dog or are not "dog people" and thus the breed of dog is immaterial. But I know my breeds of dogs, what I can handle and not handle. Anybody that knows me knows that I DO NOT do sporters. Ever.

I am a herding and working person. I want and need a serious dog, not a never ending goofball. The very few retrievers I've met that I liked had incorrect temperaments for their breed. They acted like GSDs, extremely discerning and not willing to make extreme overtures to be friendly.

They were not aggressive or shy, they simply showed little interest in people that were not their family. I do not want a dog that solicits attention. Nor do I want a bouncy "happy happy joy joy".

I have lived with Tourette's for 21 years now, and just now am I beginning to want/need a service dog to help me. If I need to I can indeed wait for another dog if the puppy I raise does not turn out. And in the event the puppy did not work out, most likely it would stay with me. I WOULD without hesitation, return a dog that washed out for reasons such as dog aggression. I have no problem admitting that. I need a dog that is trustworthy EVERYWHERE, not just at home.

I do set the same standard as RBark...my dog must pass a CGC test. I do extensively socialize my dogs and work on training from day one so they are as sound as one can expect a dog to be.



> Another factor is the enormous range of possible disabilities. The service dog may be called upon to do things that are unique to its owner, and that would wreak havoc on attempts to standardize certifications.


Indeed. Strauss is trained to not only act as a brace, but to help me find exits in the event of a panic attack. He knows how to look for the car and is also trained to pull me to keep me upright. There are times when people think he's being unruly as he hauls me around, but the truth of the matter is that my tendency is to fall backwards, not forwards.

There are some things that Strauss does NOT do that I will train my next dog to do. Things that I thought I wouldn't need that I need now, such as picking things up (I get very dizzy when I bend over now, enough that I stumble a lot). My next dog will also (hopefully) learn to fetch me certain items by name, such as my keys and remind me when to take my medications (I forget quite often). Strauss does not do such things because he was not trained for it as I didn't need it when we started.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Xeph said:


> I am a herding and working person. I want and need a serious dog, not a never ending goofball. The very few retrievers I've met that I liked had incorrect temperaments for their breed. They acted like GSDs, extremely discerning and not willing to make extreme overtures to be friendly.


I'd say you were being unfair to the retrievers, but the dogs don't much care what you think of them. The fact is, though, that your impressions are wholly inaccurate. Labs and Goldens bred for guide and service dog work have a very serious side. Even my Golden, who was very definitely born with the goofy gene, gets serious when it's time to work. As serious as a heart attack, in fact.

It is not an accident that Labs and Goldens are the go-to breeds for guide work. Properly bred, they have the bullet proof work ethic. It's easier to train a friendly dog to ignore people than it is a suspicious dog. The guide dog shop by me uses Labs, Goldens, and Doodles exclusively. The dogs that wash out of guide training get a shot at service dog training, if they show appropriate temperament.

By all means, get the dog you want. Just do it with the understanding that your reasons are your reasons--and not necessarily the real reason.


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## meghf (Jul 12, 2009)

I agree with Marsh Muppet on the lab/golden thing. I have definitely seen my fair share of goofy labs and goldens but my best friend in high school was a puppy raiser for Canine Companions for Independence (wheelchair companion dogs). They got the puppies at 8 weeks and trained them for the first year-year and a half (basic obedience and they went places with the families). CCI only uses labs, goldens, and lab/golden crosses and boy could those dogs play. But when their cape (thing they wore to let people know they were in training) went on they were all business and nothing distracted them. When my friends would bring her dogs to school for the day, the dog would be focused solely on her and nobody else. It was pretty amazing to see the difference between when they knew they were working and when they knew they could let loose.

Anyway, just wanted to share, I'm not trying to talk you into a lab or golden as I think you know what will work best for you. Just wanted to share what little I know about service dogs. Good luck with your puppy search!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Well, I guess I disagree because I don't want to go through the puppy Labrador/Golden phase. It's just not something I care for. You might disagree, but these are the experiences I've had with Labradors and Goldens (this includes service dog candidates).

For me that IS the real reason, whether you choose to believe it or not. And I won't lie, I DO like my Shepherds (and the idea of the Giant) because people don't want to interact with him as much. They're intimidating. Strauss is a lovebug (ask Inga and Keechak xD), but I don't get stopped often because of his breed, and that is ok, because when I'm out I just want to get my crap done.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Having seen plenty of retriever pups bred and selected for guide dog training, I can tell you they bear little resemblance, temperamentally, to the field/SAR bred Lab and Golden pups. Yeah, they act like puppies and all, but they are quite sphinx-like in comparison to my field bred Golden as a pup (or even as an adult). Not saying they don't have their moments, but Shepherd puppies have been known have a moment or two.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Not trying to be snarky here, just a little confused.. I don't really understand why it matters that much that Xeph has found Retreivers to not be her cup of tea. It's not like she's going into this blindly, she has already trained Strauss by herself (at least I think she has). If she was some new member insisting upon taking on a harder breed to own without having any experience, I can understand that. But fact is service dogs come in all shapes and sizes.. I have heard of many breeds being service animals, including mutts. For an experienced dog person, finding a breed most compatible with the individual, even if it isn't a mainstream breed, really doesn't faze me IMO.


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## meghf (Jul 12, 2009)

Miss Mutt,
I am definitely not trying to talk Xeph out of her choice. Everybody has a certain personality type of dog they like/dislike and that's important when looking for a pet. It's even more important when finding a service dog. I think Xeph knows what breeds will suit her and work for her and she should stick with that, after all nobody knows Xeph better than Xeph. I was just putting my experience with labs/goldens as service dogs out there, certainly not trying to change her mind. I'm excited about the idea of getting to see some Giant Schnauzer pics and hear the GS stories (as I was interested in the breed at one point).
Hope that helps shed some light on my reply. 
Meg


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

MissMutt said:


> Not trying to be snarky here, just a little confused.. I don't really understand why it matters that much that Xeph has found Retreivers to not be her cup of tea. It's not like she's going into this blindly, she has already trained Strauss by herself (at least I think she has). If she was some new member insisting upon taking on a harder breed to own without having any experience, I can understand that. But fact is service dogs come in all shapes and sizes.. I have heard of many breeds being service animals, including mutts. For an experienced dog person, finding a breed most compatible with the individual, even if it isn't a mainstream breed, really doesn't faze me IMO.


All of the SFSPCA assistance dogs are mutts.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm not concerned with Xeph's choice. She's a grown woman and knows her own mind. Other people may not have as an informed opinion, and could be mislead by her incorrect statements.

A well trained retriever is as capable of ignoring distractions presented by people and other dogs as any other dog. If that were not the case, you wouldn't see so many as working guide dogs. It stands to reason...no?

Disability service dogs serve so many varied individuals, that individual preference factors as a legitimate selection criterion. If the dog is intended to get the owner through severe anxiety attacks, then confirmation of personal bias may very well be what gets the job done best.

I should add that retrievers aren't 100% my cup of tea, either. I like 'em fine, and they are the absolute best choice for some things (like retrieving) but I prefer a companion dog with more emotional reserve. I don't really have a dog in this fight...as it were.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Oh, I wasn't implying that I thought retrievers weren't fit for service work! I absolutely think they are, and there is good reason why they are popular for that kind of thing. 

I thought the replies were more about Xeph's choice in dog rather than her opinions about the retriever breeds. I don't have enough experience with working bred Labs or Goldens (the only retrievers I know are big and bumbly) so I don't really have an opinion on the specifics of it.

Seems like the discrepancy is more in terms of the actual training and maturing of the dog than the final service dog "product."


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I've seen well trained SD Retrievers. I see them quite frequently. A woman at my KC even puppy raises for GDftB, so I know how they are....still wouldn't want one. *Shrugs*


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I would just like to say that I've made some head way in Schnauzer breeders and have two that I'm looking at closely 

Also, I was hoping I could post some health issues here and some of you could enlighten me on what they really are? I'm not understanding the medical mumbo jumbo.

The four that come to mind are:
Entropion
Ectropion
Addison's Disease
Cushing's Disease


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## meghf (Jul 12, 2009)

Entropion- Is the inward rolling of the eyelid. The hair on the eyelid (usually affects the lower) then rubs continuously against the eyeball and causes scratches and discomfort.

Ectropion- The rolling outward of the eyelid which leaves the conjuctiva of the eyelid exposed. Causes dryness, etc.

Addison's Disease (common in St. Poos too)- Is an adrenal insufficiency, the adrenal gland secretes corticosteroid hormones and aldosterone. The symptoms are symptoms of lack of cortisol and aldosterone. Cortisol and aldosterone are responsible for helping deal with stress, converting food into energy, and regulating the inflammatory response. So symptoms include, fatigue, diarrhea, muscle pain and can be vague and it can be hard to diagnose. Once diagnosed I believe it's relatively easy to treat by replacing the body's hormones.

Cushing's Disease- Is the opposite of Addison's in that it's an overproduction of adrenal hormones. Symptoms include increased thirst, increased urination, hair loss, panting, increased appetite, high blood pressure. All the symptoms are symptoms of overproduction of a hormone. 

Both Addison's and Cushing's are diagnosed with blood tests and Addison's is easy to treat but I'm not sure about Cushings. Addison's is broken down into 3 types and there's a little bit more involved but I think that's the basic. Hope that helps!


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Xeph said:


> ...
> Entropion
> Ectropion
> Addison's Disease
> Cushing's Disease


Amongst other problems with Giants, you might want to ask about:
- OCD (elbow dysplasia)
- low thyroid
- cancer (especially of the toe/s)


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I know about the OCD and thyroid issues. They're a problem in GSDs too. I've been reading about the cancer as well.

Thank you Meg for the info!


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## gschn (Nov 27, 2009)

A month late...but I have 2. I've had Giants for 16 yrs. I'm hooked.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

gschn said:


> A month late...but I have 2. I've had Giants for 16 yrs. I'm hooked.


Pictures Please!!! Oh and welcome to the forum. I can't wait to hear all about your dogs. I know Xeph will too.


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

I have had Goldens, and in fact have three. I LOVE Goldens. However, I still chose a German Shepherd Dog as my service dog candidate.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Well I'm not making much headway in the search for Strauss' replacement, so....


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

I thought you had a breeder picked out?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yes, well, now I'm not even sure what BREED I want, let alone a breeder :-/


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Yes, well, now I'm not even sure what BREED I want, let alone a breeder :-/


What has changed your mind from a Giant Schnauzer?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

If you want me to be honest....the fact that it isn't a GSD.

But I've not been able to find my "everything dog" from a GSD breeder either.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Did you check any of these out? If so, what did you like or not like about them?
http://www.tanglewoodgiants.com/index.htm
http://www.keystonekennel.com/news/
http://www.histylekennel.com/fame.php


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Tanglewood was the breeder I picked for a Giant, Inga. Keystone didn't do anything for me, and it was suggested by many to stay away from HiStyle


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

LOL That is just too funny. In looking at their websites, I thought very much the same thing. I love the look of the Tanglewood dogs. Not to mention they seem very professional. I have not talked to them yet though so who knows.

One thing I would like to see though would be some obedience titles too or agility or something.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Are you thinking of getting a Giant?

Ed was very informative and pleasant when he was on the phone with me.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I have thought about Giants for about 15 years now. That said, each time it comes to truly thinking puppy time, I end up looking at Rotties again. I think a LOT about Doberman puppies too.  I guess in the case of humans, you can't teach an old gal new tastes (in dogs)

They remind me a lot of Rotties as far as personalities but they don't shed. That would be a plus.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I'd send you to one of Barb's Dobermans, but you know me, horrible bias xD

I'd go to SilverHill if I got a Rottie


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

I can't picture you without a GSD Xeph.. I only know you here but I really really can't..

BTW I was super excited when someone I know picked out Molly Graf's Bandit as their future litter's sire.. I was like, hey, I know who that dog is LOL probably thanks largely in part to you


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

MissMutt, I have a chance for a Casch or Eagle puppy next year.

And Bandit is a NICE dog. Very very. Molly's gotten her hands on some great imports.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

He certainly seems like he is. I was looking at pics and video the other day and he is just breathtaking! I'm really interested in seeing what the pups are like.. the bitch is very very drivey (tho not a SchH dog)

And, of course, you know my bias.. if you have a chance at a GSD pup, I say GO FOR IT..


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yeah...I probably should. It's just so disappointing that after 6 years (almost 7) I still don't have my show dog.

The entire reason I REALLY got into dogs was conformation. Agility is still my favorite dog sport....but I feel so disappointed that I still don't have my fancy show dog.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

I know. 7 years is a LONG time to wait for something you want. But you can't give up! Obviously a puppy from an imported sire isn't going to be a winner in the show ring.. but he can still be a pup that can help you get up on your feet in the breed, help you get up on your feet _period_ as a reliant service dog.. and with the future will come more great things!

(On another note, you've implied that the answer is no, but there are NO show breeders right now that have what you're looking for?)

I guess for me it's just the thought of switching breeds entirely so you can get your conf dog. Which I understand, because that's a major goal of yours, but I guess I'm just soo biased because I've heard the way you speak about GSDs and I feel like your love for them really is without limit.. 

(The fact that I am not fond of bearded breeds makes things worse )


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Part of the reason I thought of the giant was because they were a breed I COULD do everything with (if the puppy turned out).

I've talked to a couple of American breeders that have bred service animals, but I'm trying to get more info on what KIND of service.

http://fairwayshepherds.com/ <--breeder I really like. I've always loved Gordy.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

It's obvious to me that you need to take your search's level of difficulty up a notch or two.

Get a Beauceron.


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

I adore Beaucerons. I have handled them in shows. However, good luck finding one with the stability for service work.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Foyerhawk said:


> I adore Beaucerons. I have handled them in shows. However, good luck finding one with the stability for service work.


I can't say I've ever heard about one being used as a service dog, but they do have the advantage of discouraging people who would go up to a SD, uninvited, and give smooches.


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

Yup, that's why I got a GSD (one reason) for my own Service Dog. However, it's a LOT easier to find a stable GSD.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Actually, I met a Beauceron in training to be a service dog in Texas a couple years ago. And the person I did the herding test with Delphi with had Beaus.

Unfortunately they really don't do anything for me. I find them to be quite plain, and I don't like the double dew claws


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Xeph said:


> http://fairwayshepherds.com/ <--breeder I really like. I've always loved Gordy.


If I ever get an Am. show line German shepherd, it'll be from Fairway. They're right here in Oregon - perhaps you and Strauss will come by?


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Shepherds Schmepherds, get a Giant! I need a Giant fix of my own and if you get one, I can get that without ownership.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Kinda like my Rottie fix with Carsten? xD!

LOL, Inga, I don't think I'll be able to give up my Shepherds any more than you could give up your Rotties. Strauss is my Inga...got me stuck on these dogs.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

You have been waiting 7 years for a show dog.. and you are what... 21? 25? This means you have been waiting since you were 14? 18? 

Wait'll you get to be 50 and consider all the stuff you are STILL waiting for. LOL That is life. 

You got time. LOTS of time.. and a wedding and a piano and a career to get going.. a bunch of things in there so you may be waiting a bit longer. 

Just remember, good things come to those who wait. 

Meanwhile, I am working with a breeder near where I live for a GSD puppy in a year of so. She has quite a waiting list. Really like her dogs and most of her dogs are trained to be service dogs or SAR dogs. In fact, she works for a service dog foundation training and managing.

I will be waiting a bit longer, but that is OK. Not like I have nothing to do BUT wait!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

24. And the age doesn't matter if it's a long time coming. And yeah, I'm not afraid to admit that I'm jealous of the kids that have been doing it as long as I have and not only have their show dogs already, but numerous finished dogs as well as 3 or 4 litters under their belts.

I can't even get in the *$#&@($& ring. Justin is retired and Strauss is no show dog. The piano is already taken care of, I'm trying to take my mind off the wedding because I'm actually MAD about it currently, and all I have to keep me occupied IS Strauss....who is getting undeniably older.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Kinda like my Rottie fix with Carsten? xD!
> 
> LOL, Inga, I don't think I'll be able to give up my Shepherds any more than you could give up your Rotties. Strauss is my Inga...got me stuck on these dogs.


lol Yeah. I know how you feel. I was stuck on this breed way before Inga was even born but she truly was my heart dog. Something about that girl really got under my skin and into the depths of my heart. She will never be forgotten. (at least not while I am in a right mind) lol


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

You definitely need a shepherd, woman! But forget about the past. I'm almost 30 and I've wanted a show Golden since I was 12. Guess what. I don't have one. Soon it'll be 20 years of waiting. I'll still be waiting. My day will come


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Well, if I give up on my show dog, I'll be getting an Eichenluft puppy sometime next year


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

But, see, I don't think of it as giving up if you take an Eichenluft pup.. you can still certainly find an Amline puppy in the future.. maybe it's just not meant to be _right now_ but show GSDs aren't going anywhere, you'll find one in the future I'm sure..


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Xeph said:


> 24. And the age doesn't matter if it's a long time coming.


Actually it does matter. While the patience may be the issue, the age is not so much so at 24. 

FWIW I wanted to be a veterinarian.. By the time I could do it.. was shed of responsibility that would hold me back I could NOT do it because the money would not work.. would NEVER work. I had aged out. It happens. I focused on other things.

If I had been in my 30's today I would be a vet. I wasn't and I am not. I refocused... but even now I wish. 

At 24 I got married and man oh man I wish I had waited a year. But I did not and well.. I got to be one of the best Dairy Farmers in the State. Lemons made into lemonade... and I am glad I did what I did looking back. 



Xeph said:


> And yeah, I'm not afraid to admit that I'm jealous of the kids that have been doing it as long as I have and not only have their show dogs already, but numerous finished dogs as well as 3 or 4 litters under their belts.


I had horses growing up. I went to local shows and I went to Pony club. I had crappy horses for showing and PC, but my parents did not have the money.. and eventually I did have some good horses but by then I no longer wanted to show. I bred a few good ones...

I was jealous when I was young and wished for a better horse.. but those less than perfect horses I had taught me an awful lot more about training and riding than any of the horses the other kids had. I had to make it work and so I did. 

We are given what we need, and that is not necessarily what we want. 



Xeph said:


> I can't even get in the *$#&@($& ring. Justin is retired and Strauss is no show dog. The piano is already taken care of, I'm trying to take my mind off the wedding because I'm actually MAD about it currently, and all I have to keep me occupied IS Strauss....who is getting undeniably older.


Yup. Dogs get older. We get older. Life goes on. Last I checked they had not stopped making GSD's and when the time is right it will be right if it is to be. 

Meanwhile, why not see if you can do some training at a shelter to try to make some of the dogs there more adoptable? It will give you a world of experience that you can use someday when you get a show dog. 

Have you put a CD on Strauss or any dog? That you can work at too. Novice A titles are still there to be had!

Like I said, sometimes we got to wait.. and as long as we are waiting, we might as well press on and make the wait a good experience.. no.. a GREAT experience. 

You cannot walk thru any doors if you don't open them first.


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## .308 (Jul 26, 2009)

> We are given what we need, and that is not necessarily what we want.


VERY wise words. Some will never understand those words.

Or as Spock once said in a Star Trek episode "Having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting, it may not be logical but it is often true." (this is the T.V series that had Captain Kirk)


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Oh oh! The old fogeys are coming out en masse. Young'ins, to the hills!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

RBark said:


> Oh oh! The old fogeys are coming out en masse. Young'ins, to the hills!


Well... yeah.. but 'The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but in the arts the struggle for reputation is apt to end in favor of the loudest...' or was it the OLDEST?? I forget.. Senile...

quoted (I hope) from Oliphant.. which is not the same as Elephant...


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Elana55 said:


> Well... yeah.. but 'The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but in the arts the struggle for reputation is apt to end in favor of the loudest...' or was it the OLDEST?? I forget.. Senile...
> 
> quoted (I hope) from Oliphant.. which is not the same as Elephant...


So just be the fastest, strongest, and loudest! Problem solved!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

RBark said:


> So just be the fastest, strongest, and loudest! Problem solved!


Old age and treachery beats the strength, speed, and loudness of youth. I won't even mention grumpiness.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> *Old age and treachery *beats the strength, speed, and loudness of youth. I won't even mention grumpiness.


Been awhile since I heard that.... and me.. a MASTER of treachery.


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## gschn (Nov 27, 2009)

I've always wanted a Giant to compete with now I have two. I had to wait too! Got my first Giant at 17. Started competing with my current female in February at 33 yrs old. My male is in training. He's 6 months. 
We've dabbled in a few sports. They can do it all! Flyball, Disc Dog, Schutzhund so far. Flyball is our main event as of right now. I'd like to give Agility a try next. My two are out of working lines. I much prefer the working. They've definitely got more drive!

BTW there's another big kennel you definitely want to stay away from! I don't think I need to mention it. Stay away from breeders with that kennel in their lines too.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I know which big two I need to stay away from in the event I DO get a Giant someday...I think all of them had those lines intermingled at some point though.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

Hey We live close to "that breeder" and yes I while I can see why the accusations of "show mill " come about-- we have visited many times over the years and the dogs seem fine(given the number, she cares for them well) -- and they are the most beautiful I have seen and good tempraments too. Note that she is now restricting her litters and one can expect that she will be winding down in the years to come.... We have a two year old female from that Kennel ( a good buddy of mine had 3 of them in his time)-- and are very pleased with our dog. Also have come to meet several other Giants from other sources, and this breeder seems to breed closest to the standard.... For a reaonabley priced, non show quality dog(although I have to say she has grown into a beautiful dog-- we get positive comments whenever we are out). Also we took our pup to a schutzund trainer and she did well with him as well....


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## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

After being on this forum for close to 2 years, and having read Xeph's posts, There are few people here who are as knowledgeable as she is. I believe she knows what she needs and why.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

lisaj1354 said:


> After being on this forum for close to 2 years, and having read Xeph's posts, There are few people here who are as knowledgeable as she is. I believe she knows what she needs and why.


Well Hello, I am aware I am just a Junior member and NOT trying to malign Xeph's knowledge or expertise--
but how many of you have been there to this breeder? Stood there in her yard and watched her Giants romp in the fields-- I was there 2 days ago and have been there many times over the past 10 years or so (the first few visits initially just to accompany a friend, unbiased)! 

Quiz me about what I saw--what I have experienced there and as an owner to one of her dogs!-- 
not just make 2nd or 3rd hand assumptions about someone who has invested 40plus years of her life devoted to these amazing dogs--
I think this breeder is certainly invested in her dogs, loves her dogs as we are& do! 
As a novice to the dog forum I would like a better understanding of the enmity so profusely disseminated on the internet about her. 
This is an elder dog person who started as a 10year old girl working with dogs! 
Anyways I am certainly open to be educated.
PS looking back at the discussion did not realize it was with regards to getting a show dog -- well then, If you want a show dog, then certainly this breeder should be in the running. That is what they do -- breed beautiful show dogs.
We just wanted a temprementally stable, good looking Giant -- we are not in a position to show, but were simply pleased to see that even her "pet quality" dogs are beautiful and bred to the standard, which I do not think you can often say....


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

A) The breeder was never mentioned by name... I have no idea who we're talking about and I don't particularly care (though I do have a soft spot of Schnauzers)
B) This thread is two years old. Xeph never ended up getting a Giant, but even if she had, she'd already have the dog, thus rendering continuing this discussion useless.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

RaeganW said:


> A) The breeder was never mentioned by name... I have no idea who we're talking about and I don't particularly care (though I do have a soft spot of Schnauzers)
> B) This thread is two years old. Xeph never ended up getting a Giant, but even if she had, she'd already have the dog, thus rendering continuing this discussion useless.


I am new to this forum but love the breed and wanted to helpfully give info to someone (anyone out there still looking?) requesting help finding a source for these dogs- Plus I dont find awhole lot out there on Giants, and will take what I can find, even if it is 2 years old!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Plus I dont find awhole lot out there on Giants, and will take what I can find, even if it is 2 years old!


Er, yes...but it's not particularly good etiquette to drag up such old threads.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Er, yes...but it's not particularly good etiquette to drag up such old threads.


Point taken.


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