# the more I read about the fila brasileiro the more I LIKE them!



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

As most everyone knows, I have been "trying on" different breeds. I hate to sound cliché ... But in the near future i will be taking this place over, which means I will be spending a lot of time here by myself, i think i would feel more comfortable with a large estate type guardian at my side protecting me & my other animals. 

Of course I plan to do extensive research on filas before I even make a solid decision but I wanted to hear from those who might have fila or similar breed experience to give me information past the "generals" of temperament & personality, like raising & day to day life with a fila or like breed. 

I am kind of apprehensive about posting this because I have gotten some averse reactions to questions like this on other forums, but ... It's not like I have put down a deposit on a puppy from a breeder or anything, I'm just looking for info in order to make a more informed decision.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I would say 99.9999999% of people don't need a fila. They are way more guardian than most guardian breeds. They are generally totally stranger intolerant. Not just wary or distrustful.... read up on ojeriza. Filas hate strangers. They are maybe the last breed I'd ever recommend to anybody. the 'other forum' has some fila folk on it though.


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## marti1357 (Jun 8, 2013)

What special needs you have?
You seem to be inexperienced with the breed. I just want to remind you that if your dog attacks a person or another dog you may be sorry. Just my 2 cent.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Filas?? No thank you...that's too much dog and liability for me.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

That's what I am looking for, we are VERY remote with almost NO visitors (unless we need work done & for that the dog could be put Inside, crated with the door closed. But the instance where someone comes out is very very rare & I mean VERY. We have no close neighbors (unless you count goats & cattle).


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Um, I'd go for a more... docile guard dog. But that's just my opinion. I've heard or read somewhere, can't remember where, a story that if your neighbors own a fila, your house's worth goes down. Whether it's true or not I'll leave in the middle, but I suppose the main point is: they're a liability. You don't want one near you. 

Of course the decision is entirely up to you. In the end, if you think you're capable of responsibly owning a fila Brasileiro, no one on an internet forum can stop you from doing what you want. Just... think carefully.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

My uncle ranches in Texas. They've had ACDs and Rottweilers a long time. One of their rancher friends has a pair of filas for guardians. They've had some close calls with those dogs. My cousin was close at one point even though the dogs know him they still arent tolerant. They're not ACDs or Rottweilers...

What about the vet? How would you do that?


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

never even heard of them before so I just googled them and OMG they are amazing looking like a bloodhound/mastiff mix (that's just what I thought first off)  super cute but I read absolutely nothing on them so I'm just going off looks (I can tell why you would want one they are striking) but if they are as guardy as everyone says I don't think I would ever consider it ever. but if you have as little people coming to your house as you say then I don't personally see a problem with it as long as you can keep the dog contained on your property and are able to responsibly keep the dog and fill it's needs.

EDIT: very good point laurelin did not think about that


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I know they aren't ACDs or rotts, it's their intolerance for strangers that is attractive to me. More then their looks (I rarely choose a breed based on looks alone, but they are good looking)

We have a vet who comes out here to do our animals, so no need totals them to a clinic.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Hmm, that's a lot of dog. Far more than I'd ever consider, even if a personal protection dog was what I wanted. 

Depending on exactly what you are looking for, a more traditional LGD like a Great Pyr or Maremma would be an option if it is more about livestock than personal protection. For a still pretty intense but less of a risk breed, maybe a Dogo or Cane Corso if its more personal protection than livestock protection. For a moderate "guardian" breed, a Rhodesian Ridgeback does well in hot climates.

I think a few cattle dogs would do just fine for a mix of protection, watch and working dogs though.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I know they aren't ACDs or rotts, it's their intolerance for strangers that is attractive to me. More then their looks (I rarely choose a breed based on looks alone, but they are good looking)
> 
> We have a vet who comes out here to do our animals, so no need totals them to a clinic.


 I wasn't saying to get them for looks (if so I would own a dalmatian and be miserable) I was saying I can see how you could be attracted to them and if the vet visits you then I would make sure they are at lease indifferent to the vet for their safety.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I have a coworker who has 2 filas. He lives on some acerage in Alaska, so he really doesn't have to worry much about unexpected visitors. He chose the breed because he is a conspiracy theorist (we have many of those up there) and also stockpiles weapons and silver and wanted dogs that he could count on to attack strangers on his property.

He and I have very different ideas about dog ownership, but here is how he has handled them. YMMV...

He got them from a very reputable breeder in Brasil and had them shipped here. At that point on, he has intentionally not socialized his dogs. They cannot be trusted with any strangers and if he has guests over (which is very rare) they must be confined. He has 1 or 2 friends who can be around his dogs, but even they must be supervised. For vet visits and any time they are around strangers, they must be muzzled and contained. With his family, they are playful, but not aggressive, but still will cause injuries now and then simply due to playing at that size and musculature.

Other downsides he has mentioned. He and his wife cannot go on vacation...ever. There are only a few facilities called "no-touch" dog kennels that could keep his dogs as they are. He also cannot have visitors unless he plans ahead to contain his dogs. Exercise-wise, he says they aren't too bad. One is just at 1 year old and the other is a year and a half and both can be exercised with a chuck-it in his yard. They shed about as much as a lab with a similar coat, just more due to size. They do eat a lot and they need REALLY tough things to chew. He gives them moose antlers and coconuts to chew and play with.

Training wise, he uses methods I would not use. When I asked him for advice about nipping, his advice was to "beat the sh*t out of the dog when it does it...they'll learn." I would say, though, that he does love his dogs in his own way. He is strong on aversives, but is also affectionate with them, from what I understand. I'm pretty sure you would train yours differently and likely might not have as many issues with socialization.

After hearing a lot about them from him, they aren't a breed I would want myself. I know I'd be biting off way more than I could chew and I would worry about liability and the dogs' safety should anything get out of control.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think a Rott might be better for what you want. Better known for being a guard breed---some bad guys may not recognize a Fila for what it is and assume it's a bloodhound and try something anyway. . .which wouldn't turn out well, but just saying that for visual deterrent, a better-known breed might be better---and not as problematic for normal life. And they were originally bred partially for being cattle drovers, so that might work out too.

There are certain breeds I think might only work out if you live somewhere really wild, in a country where you don't get arrested or sued if your dog eats someone .


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

No I am very remote, we don't have visitors unless we have someone out to do work, then I could crate the fila &!close my bedroom door.

But I will be willing to look into other, less intense breeds as well. My concerns with the Rottweiler is finding a reputable breeder who is local


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I know you said no other forums but you really should talk to the people on the other one. There's several fila/former fila owners on there and I do not think there are any fila owners on this forum. Renee has had two, filarotten has had three, Buckshot had one, Buddy'sParents has one, Miakoda had one fila, ummm.... Sweet and Nolu fostered filarotten's Cleo. Romy is friends with the breeder at De La Luna. Unfortunately I will add that of the handful of filas I've 'known' two have been put to sleep for aggression towards family. They're a breed that you just CAN'T mess up with.

ETA: You would have much better luck finding a rottweiler breeder than a fila breeder so I don't understand that at all.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

One thing to consider is insurance. It is hard enough to insure Rotts and Pits and such, but a Fila might be a complete no-go. And you can't run a business without insurance. 

If you're willing to ship a Fila, why not ship a Rottie from a good breeder (or another suitable breed)? 

Are you planning to get professional protection dog training for the dog? Including poison proofing?

Honestly, I think a good alert dog with an imposing size and bark and _some_ guardian instincts is the best bet for most people looking for a "guard dog"-- even those in remote places. Then carry a gun.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> My concerns with the Rottweiler is finding a reputable breeder who is local


Hehe, you think you'll find a reputable Fila breeder who is local?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

What other breeds could also be suitable for protection (I know it's more about temperament... But humor me for a moment  ) besides GSD's & rotties? I have considered the rott before, but the breed's health problems scared me away. 

Does anyone know any good rott breeders in Texas, this being my first time with a breed, I would like to go local.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Guardian options that could be suitable that come to mind: Cane Corso, Black Russian Terrier, Giant Schnauzer, Anatolian, Boerboel, possibly Dobermens, Dogos or Rhodies.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I was under the impression by the research I had done that the dogo (although I love them) was mainly a game dog, not supposed to be human aggressive at all.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Look into the Giant Schnauzer. I knew one and that big black hairy dog was very intimidating. They were originally multi purpose farm dogs for guarding property and driving animals. I have always admired them myself ........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Schnauzer


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sure- mainly a game dog but that's why I said "possibly" in the sense that a strong, imposing dog trained to alert to new people can in many ways be better than an actual human aggressive dog. 

To my knowledge, you don't want a personal protection dog to be truly human aggressive. That's unpredictable. There are sometimes people with a legit need to enter your property no matter how remote you are and you are in for a world of trouble if one of them gets attacked. Police, firefighters, EMTs, utility company workers and the like. I'd think that you want a dog that can be trained to attack or hold off a known threat on your command.

But I am not experienced with true PPDs firsthand; some knowledge of police working dogs.


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## marti1357 (Jun 8, 2013)

Shell said:


> One thing to consider is insurance. It is hard enough to insure Rotts and Pits and such, but a Fila might be a complete no-go. And you can't run a business without insurance.


There is an answer to that: the insurance company did not hear about Filas yet, so they may not object to these dogs. 
I also advised the OP to be careful with his choice, but at the end of the day its his decision. If all he wants are Filas, he may have them.

Another breed that wasn't mentioned yet is the Turkish Kangal. Take a look at these.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> We have a vet who comes out here to do our animals, so no need totals them to a clinic.


If a dog doesn't tolerate strangers and you specifically want it to keep people off the property, I fail to see how having a vet make a call is an improvement over or easier than having to bring them to a clinic.

Honestly, you don't need a dog who is going to actually attack people. Any large, intimidating looking dog will probably do.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

I have been dog sitting for a Doctor that has four for years. Well he dropped down the three for a while when the oldest one passed. Without going into details why while his family may not need four Filas, psychologically they are a great benefit to one person in his household. 

He is a dedicated hard core dog guy and is great with them. His house is pretty much a compound with 8 foot block wall fence. 
He rotates, two inside and two outside. He also has a kicking indoor/outdoor kennel with central AC, the dog have their own pool, etc. 

He pampers the dogs and they DOTE on the family. 

When he they go out of town, it is pretty much if I cannot watch them, he can't go. 


They are a SERIOUS dog. Would I own one? No... I cannot say I can imagine a situation in which I would They are a liability. Frankly I think they have a hair trigger and tend to over react. 

You want aloof.... Well you like ACDs they SHOULD be aloof and SUSPICIOUS of strangers. 

Side note... You could not likely have a Vet do a field/house call on a Fila. You would have to take it in. And possibly muzzle it. 
And dogs from the right lines are FEARLESS and will take things as far as they need to. 

And they fly under the radar.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Good points guys, these are the answers I was hoping for, thanks. 

I wasn't actually seriously considering them, I was just wanting to know more about living with one, the is for all the info! Clearly I believe they are too much dog for me though


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Good points guys, these are the answers I was hoping for, thanks.
> 
> I wasn't actually seriously considering them, I was just wanting to know more about living with one, the is for all the info! Clearly I believe they are too much dog for me though


Frankly if I lived off the grid and had a half a million under my mattress I would still have ACDs. 

A dog does not have to be big to be tough or effective. Merlin does bite work one Sunday Morning a month. Out of the group of six, Merlin is the smallest dog. (There is one Bel Mal that is maybe 5 pounds more then him) He is one of the two most consistent dogs when it comes to taking a decoy off their feet. The other is a 75 pound Bel Mal GSD cross. There are a couple of GSDs that are in the 90's. And we pitch in to hire a professional decoy MOST Sundays. Guys that know how to fight dogs. At this point, Merlin needs no confidence building, I would rather the decoys PUSH him into being better. He has take downs on guys that do not typically get taken down when unless they are building up a young dog. 

Smaller dogs give up size but pick up speed and agility. They have a different style. Style is not important in the real world. But I have to say I much prefer to watch a way a small dog fights a man.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

"The Brazilian army compared this breed to Doberman Pinschers and German Shepherds in a five year study using these dogs in the jungle under extremely hostile conditions. The following traits were observed: intelligence, aggressiveness, sensibility, temperament, energy, resistance, rusticity and strength. German Shepherds were found to have the highest intelligence and Doberman Pinschers the highest level of aggression. The Fila Brasileiro was found to be superior in every other category."

Found that on Wikipedia, we all know how reliable that is lol, but it's interesting. I don't really consider Dobies all that aggressive so if it's true that the Brazilians found them to be more aggressive then the Fila, I'm not too sure what everyone is buggin about. 

If your an experienced dog owner and you feel like you're capable of handling that type of dog then go for it. Reality though, all it takes is a couple bullets and it doesn't really matter how big or bad ass your dog is. If it makes you feel safer though so be it.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Smaller dogs give up size but pick up speed and agility. They have a different style. Style is not important in the real world. But I have to say I much prefer to watch a way a small dog fights a man.


I agree with you JB...I've always wondered if it's due to the "small" dogs having to engage their brain, employ strategy if you will. The larger dogs can often get by on brute force and it seems sometimes that can make them a bit "lazy" (for lack of a better word) on technique. Who needs precision if you can muscle your way through? I'm not involved in the world myself, but I've been privileged enough to watch a number of training sessions, a few friendly departmental competitions and I have a friend who competes with her Rott. 

When you see the smallish Mals running up to the decoy you can almost see the wheels turning in their head and they hit with a unique flair that the larger dogs don't usually possess. Its like they're looking through to the next move...almost a chess match mentality? Sort of like the small running back who has the speed and agility, but also has to carefully pick his route and use the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing defense.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Emmett said:


> I agree with you JB...I've always wondered if it's due to the "small" dogs having to engage their brain, employ strategy if you will. The larger dogs can often get by on brute force and it seems sometimes that can make them a bit "lazy" (for lack of a better word) on technique. Who needs precision if you can muscle your way through? I'm not involved in the world myself, but I've been privileged enough to watch a number of training sessions, a few friendly departmental competitions and I have a friend who competes with her Rott.
> 
> When you see the smallish Mals running up to the decoy you can almost see the wheels turning in their head and they hit with a unique flair that the larger dogs don't usually possess. Its like they're looking through to the next move...almost a chess match mentality? Sort of like the small running back who has the speed and agility, but also has to carefully pick his route and use the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing defense.



Well Most of the smaller breeds that are at least sometimes used in bite work are SMART... The smaller dogs seem to watch the "bad guy" more.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

You don't actually need a dog who will attack for it to be an effective deterrent. I actually met a mastiff x this morning who was very big and scary, with a studded collar which only made him more scary. He will growl and bark when people come to the door, but once the owner says hello to them he's fine and will back off. He's about as much guardian as I'd ever want in a dog (if I was looking for a burglar deterrent), but being that big and scary looking, no one is going to want to burgle that house. And with friends and family, the dog is the biggest sook ever, he's just a big baby.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

You aren't the only person I've read say "we can have the vet make a house call".....crap happens and you'd have to be prepared for that. You may HAVE to take the dog in to a clinic. Any health issues of yours that could prevent you from picking the dog up and putting him in your vehicle?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

marti1357 said:


> There is an answer to that: the insurance company did not hear about Filas yet, so they may not object to these dogs.
> I also advised the OP to be careful with his choice, but at the end of the day its his decision. If all he wants are Filas, he may have them.
> 
> Another breed that wasn't mentioned yet is the Turkish Kangal. Take a look at these.


I didn't see any mention that Filas were unknown by insurance. But regardless of breed, a trained PPD or guard dog can also be a nightmare to insure while of course an untrained one is a danger.

Thinking back on the large ranches I saw in Uruguay, they seemed to all keep two kinds of dogs-- herders like ACDs and border collie types (I'm sure many mixes of herding breeds) which ran loose and then guard/hunting type dogs that lived chained to their dog houses (long chains) or within the housing compound. Those all appeared to be something along the lines of Dogos and American Bulldog/Pit type mixes. Since they told me they also use them for hog hunting, Dogos make sense. 
They certainly seemed sufficient for both intimidation of a stranger and as working dogs. The herding dogs alone as a pack were enough to keep most strangers in their cars or on their horses until invited in.


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

I really really second the Giant Schnauzer recommendation. I live with a mix and she puts our Shiloh to shame as a watch dog. 

She alerts so on point. Like it's never "what is Ellie barking at?" It's "who is near our yard?" 

They're smart, excel at (I'm going to butcher the spelling) schutzhund, they're great watch dogs, protective, but back off when they see you're not worried, and they're big, black, and all muscle.

Ellie is five months and half standard poodle. So she's under forty pounds. She's kept in a schnauzer cut. People still say how intimidating she looks/sounds.

They're used as police dogs in Europe. 

I'm not worried that she'll go after someone, but she'll sure as heck keep someone from coming any further. (Even without our brute of a Shiloh next to her). And, if I was afraid of someone I'd want her in front of me, not Linc. I know people always say "my dog will protect me" but unless they're trained to they usually won't, but I think Ellie would give that theory a run for its money (only if someone was attacking me I can trust her completely going somewhere with a lot of people, etc.)


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

The giant Schnauzer isn't a breed I would have considered before making this thread, I will have to look into them ... Thanks


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

My question to the OP, do you actually NEED a dog that will protect you from physical harm? By this I mean, do you live in an area where the threat of violence is high? Where it is reasonable to assume that the dog would have to react at some point in time in their life. Living remote more often than not translates to low risk, compared to those that live in higher population density and in high crime neighborhoods. 

There are places in my city where the chances are EXTREMELY high that a guardian breed would be called upon to defend life or property. Statistics show that roughly 80% of people have been a victim of violent crime and the per capita murder rate is atrocious. For me, being by myself in such a neighborhood would possibly warrant looking into one of the "serious" guardians.

Or are you really looking for the peace of mind a dog that _could_ defend you and yours would bring? I personally believe, in the case of picking a dog breed, form should really meet function.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Honestly, even in a situation where it was very dangerous, I would think the odds are even higher that a dog like a fila would go after a person that wasn't really a threat vs actually appropriately protecting you. But maybe I just haven't lived in a dangerous enough area?

Plus if the bad guy has a gun anyways....


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Filas are a breed that needs some space, both for exercise and also for everyone's safety. I would not recommend keeping one in the inner city, particularly in a high-crime area. Odds are, it would only escalate any violence and people will get hurt, possibly innocent ones.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Space isn't a problem here, but the giant Schnauzer I don't think would be right for us either, every site about them I went to said they do best as an only dog.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I'm really curious now as to why you feel you need a Fila to accomplish that a Rottweiler or other large, more traditional protection dog couldn't. Who exactly are you trying to deter?? The mexican drug cartel?? What sort of property are you taking care of? 

For me, it's like having a fully automatic machine gun under the bed when a regular pistol would do the job.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I didn't really "want" a fila persay, like I haven't looked at breeders (other then for information on the breed) I just got curious about them & wanted to know more. 

I see now they wouldn't be right for me or my situation, but it was nice to learn about them  they do sound like an interesting breed


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I will throw another breed into the mix, what about a beauceron?


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm going to suggest this but I don't know much about the breed...leonberger?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Leos are sweethearts.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> Leos are sweethearts.


 That's what I've heard...but I guess I didn't think about it for the OP since they want a stranger indifferent dog so maybe not for them. I do like them though, I would need to do more research on them for me personally.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

No Leo's are too sweet for me I don't want a dog who loves everybody. I all ready have two of those :/


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Maybe a Great Pry? My FI had one, Tyler, who passed away before I could meet him, but successfully lived with a JRT mix, Lady, and BC mix, Angus. Only major issue was resource guarding that they stayed on top of.

That was in the suburbs. My best friend lives on a pony farm. Sam, her Great Pry, successfully gets along with: two medium sized mystery mixes, a JRT, and a golden retriever. She tends to stay outside, especially at night. But it's by choice and a part of the job. 

And they all live in Texas. One in the dry really hot heat and one in muggy, gonna drown humidity. So they would work for you in that aspect.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

CrimsonAccent said:


> Maybe a Great Pry? My FI had one, Tyler, who passed away before I could meet him, but successfully lived with a JRT mix, Lady, and BC mix, Angus. Only major issue was resource guarding that they stayed on top of.
> 
> That was in the suburbs. My best friend lives on a pony farm. Sam, her Great Pry, successfully gets along with: two medium sized mystery mixes, a JRT, and a golden retriever. She tends to stay outside, especially at night. But it's by choice and a part of the job.
> 
> And they all live in Texas. One in the dry really hot heat and one in muggy, gonna drown humidity. So they would work for you in that aspect.



Pyrs are... weird dogs. They're great livestock guardians, and they can do a decent protection job for PROPERTY, but if you want a dog who has any inclination to protect you- no way. They're like cats wearing giant white dog suits. They can be sweet, but they're crazy aloof and independent. Not aloof and indifferent to their strangers, but their OWNERS. You'd really struggle to have the bond or obedience necessary for personal protection in a lgd. They're out there to work without input from people and that very much shows in how much they give a danged about what you want, and in their temperaments.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Honestly, I'd just suggest all the usual suspects here. Often, just the reputation of a dog's breed is enough to make you and your home not worth messing with, particularly if the person or home down the road does not have a <insert SCARY breed name here> in their yard.

Since you mention that you want a dog that is closely bonded with you, but somewhat wary and aloof with strangers, that opens up the door for Rotties, Dobies, GSD's, almost any mastiff breed, although you may get far more bark than fight in many of those...heck even just a big black dog of any breed that barks. A rescue lab mix would do nicely there, even. GIven the hot climate, though, and how gorgeous they are, I'd probably opt for a Dobie myself.


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## marti1357 (Jun 8, 2013)

To the OP - take a look at the *Turkish Kangal and Turkish Boz*: http://turkishboz.com/
These are renowned dogs, used around the world for guarding large estates, livestock and farms. Unlike the breeds mentioned above, they thrive outside and are used in places like Africa to deter Cheetahs and Leopards.


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Since you are looking for a large estate type guardian that will be protecting both you and your other animals, my suggestion would be to look into LGD breeds that are very protective towards strangers but are not too intense.
And with proper socialization you can easily take them in public or have guests over.
These breeds would be: Kuvasz, Sarplaninac, Tibetan Mastiff or the Central Asian shepherds (for anyone who doesn't know what they are, the Central Asian shepherd is *not *the more intense Caucasian shepherd but a separate breed).
Just make sure the breeder health tests.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

LGDs are great at animal protection but really don't have the need a personal guardian breed does to protect YOU, most are very catlike. 

I had dobies before, loved them


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

This in my opinion is not true and I am talking about the more protective LGD breeds here ( so not the less protective ones like say Great Pyrenees or the Italian Maremma).
LGD's are my favorite type of dogs, so one can say I am biased lol. But I love them for a reason.
In the past my family has had amongst others Sarplaninac's (plural in the native tongue would be Sarplaninci) and Kuvaszok. Right now we have two Caucasian shepherds.

Yes they are independent and have a mind of their own (something I really love mind you), but not to the degree that they will not care about their owner. 
In fact ours are incredibly affectionate with us and would do anything in their power to protect us.
They are only aloof with strangers.

But if you really would not like a dog that likes to take matters into its own paws when the occasion arises and has an independent nature, then that is not a type of dog for you of course.

And whichever breed you end up choosing my advice would be: make sure the breeder health tests and always visit the breeder in person first, at least once. 
To see how they raise their dogs etc..


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## Aska (Jun 9, 2013)

Have you looked into different breeds like Kangal and Karakachan? Even a Giant Schnauzer?


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

I should say... you sound like you are looking for a Mucuchies. They are equipped to deal with cold climates, can be taught to respect the livestock and are zealous guard dogs. My uncle kept Mucuchies and, to enter their property you had to be introduced to the dogs by a family member or else you'd be in trouble. So they can tolerate strangers (when accompanied by a family member) and are affectionate to their owners... and they are frightening when mad. Independent, but not enough that they wouldn't defend you. 
I remember once my cousin brought me over and I stepped out of the car and asked her "do you think your dogs remember me?" and she said "if they didn't, they would have mauled you already". That was a bit frightening. They were sweet dogs to me, tho.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Lol forgive me but I had to google Mucuchies xD, they sound cool 

I love where this thread has gone, so many awesome breeds discussed


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

kcomstoc said:


> I'm going to suggest this but I don't know much about the breed...leonberger?


I looked into this hard.... Short lived.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm not sure how you say mucuchies. I'm thinking moo-coo-chees, no? Lol 

Anyways, I'm just thinking the name doesn't sound all that threatening to me. It actually sounds pretty cute lol. 

Plus some have coloring that makes them resemble a border collie. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid of one. Not saying it couldn't do some damage or anything but if you're looking for a deterrent to criminals, I'm not sure that breed would do it for you.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

No but learning shot new breeds is interesting


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> No but learning shot new breeds is interesting


Well a Sapsali could protect you from ghosts, lol. Good luck getting one out of Korea though


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

xoxluvablexox said:


> I'm not sure how you say mucuchies. I'm thinking moo-coo-chees, no? Lol
> 
> Anyways, I'm just thinking the name doesn't sound all that threatening to me. It actually sounds pretty cute lol.
> 
> Plus some have coloring that makes them resemble a border collie. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid of one. Not saying it couldn't do some damage or anything but if you're looking for a deterrent to criminals, I'm not sure that breed would do it for you.


Almost perfect! You pronounce it 'moo coo chee ehs'. It's the name of the place they originated from. These were also the dogs kept by a south American war hero. Not sure if they rode to war with him. 

Well, I do agree that they look cute and fluffy if they are not attacking you, but I guess that's the thing. I love mucuchies, but I wouldn't own one because you'd need to have a great socialization plan to have them get used to just any stranger. I think it's also the reason they are going extinct. Then again, if you want a dog that will only threaten but not harm intruders, I guess they are not what you are looking for. They only show strangers a full toothed scowl before they assault.... Unless they are sneaky like my cousins third dog: he used to like sneaking up on intruders and attack them from behind.

Edit : the dog did go to war. He actually died in one of the last wars before the independence of the great Colombia. Also, I think the reason why they're fluffy is because they were bred to live in the Andes.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

It's interesting to learn about Mucuchies! My Venezuelan friend didn't know about them when I asked her.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

Avie said:


> It's interesting to learn about Mucuchies! My Venezuelan friend didn't know about them when I asked her.



I don't think a lot of Venezuelans know the breed these days. Specially since there's quite a lot less fanaticism when it comes to Simon Bolivar (I once got sent to the principal because I said that having a whole school subject dedicated to a person was silly), even if they joined his army)... and well, the breed is well on its way to become extinct. There's only two reasons I know the breed: one was that I was interested in conservationism as a child and I liked investigating about Venezuelan animals that were endangered. The mucuchies were listed there... and that was some fifteen to twenty years ago. The second reason is that my uncle bred them... but they were raised very much like cattle. Strictly outside dogs. And in Lara, which is one of the warmer states! Poor dogs!

Are there a lot of Venezuelans where you live? I keep seeing more and more Spanish speakers pop up.


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## Aska (Jun 9, 2013)

Boerboel- They are charming dogs and good with kids, but they will protect their family to death if needed.









Dogo Argentino- They will, without hestitation, die for their owner/family. Aggression/protective behaviour is purposely being bred out, though.









Tosa Inu- This dog can easily kill. It will do anything to protect their owner. 









Cane Corso- They bond deeply with their owner and do protect them. They are still really loving.

Then there are breeds like Giant Schnauzer, Black Russian Terrier, Bouvier Des Flandres...


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Well a Sapsali could protect you from ghosts, lol. Good luck getting one out of Korea though


And they have the softest fur EVER! 

Hmm, has anyone mentioned a Presa Canario?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Presa's have a lot of problems with DA, which would be a problem for us. I LOVE the presa though


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

There are very, VERY few people to whom I would suggest a Tosa Inu. OwnedbyACDs is not one of them. They are not a good fit for this situation -- they are more dog aggressive than anything (animal aggressive, really, which means cats and livestock too).

OwnedbyACDs, the people on the other forum are very harsh, but they do bring up a few good points -- one is that if you have anxiety issues and are nervous around people, many of the guardian breeds ARE going to pick up on that and will view regular, non-threatening people as a threat. You should not be looking into any breeds who are known for taking matters into their own paws when they feel like their owner is threatened.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Crantastic said:


> There are very, VERY few people to whom I would suggest a Tosa Inu. OwnedbyACDs is not one of them. They are not a good fit for this situation -- they are more dog aggressive than anything (animal aggressive, really, which means cats and livestock too).
> 
> OwnedbyACDs, the people on the other forum are very harsh, but they do bring up a few good points -- one is that if you have anxiety issues and are nervous around people, many of the guardian breeds ARE going to pick up on that and will view regular, non-threatening people as a threat. You should not be looking into any breeds who are known for taking matters into their own paws when they feel like their owner is threatened.


Can I ask what the other forum is? Just curious...

OwnedbyACDs: What about the usual "aggressive breed" suspects? Doberman, Rotteweiler, Rhodesian, Mastiff, the right looking pit? I feel like without *extensive* training what you really want is just a scary looking dog. Most people can recognize those breeds and will think they're dangerous. Some of the other breeds listed won't be recognized and therefore not taken account as a threat. The worst of both worlds, the dogs don't deter and instead just actually attack.

EDIT: The other question I would ask is that most of these breeds need *extensive* socialization and you come out with a dog that's _still_ usually stranger aggressive. If you're that remote how are you going to socialize it properly?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I actually have had dobes before, I have gotten some recommendations of some really good doberman breeders in my area.

As for the other forum, (not naming names) but we have disagreed on some stuff (not going into it) so which is why I was reluctant to post this there ... Because I was afraid it would be a ... A waste of time. 

I'll leave it at that. People on here are a lot more informative, while still "telling it like it is" ... That's why I posted it here first


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Cailin said:


> I don't think a lot of Venezuelans know the breed these days. Specially since there's quite a lot less fanaticism when it comes to Simon Bolivar (I once got sent to the principal because I said that having a whole school subject dedicated to a person was silly), even if they joined his army)... and well, the breed is well on its way to become extinct. There's only two reasons I know the breed: one was that I was interested in conservationism as a child and I liked investigating about Venezuelan animals that were endangered. The mucuchies were listed there... and that was some fifteen to twenty years ago. The second reason is that my uncle bred them... but they were raised very much like cattle. Strictly outside dogs. And in Lara, which is one of the warmer states! Poor dogs!
> 
> Are there a lot of Venezuelans where you live? I keep seeing more and more Spanish speakers pop up.


Poor Mucuchies! With their coats meant for coping in the Andes as you said I can imagine them doing awful in hot weather. 

The Netherlands is very multi-culti. I suppose there are plenty Venezuelans living here 

To the OP: I don't suggest a Boerboel if you've got anxiety issues. A friend of our family has had two, and they absolutely needed a confident owner. They were distrustful by nature enough as it was. I don't suppose it'll do wonders if a dog like that has an anxious owner who feels uncomfortable around other people.


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## Aska (Jun 9, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> There are very, VERY few people to whom I would suggest a Tosa Inu. OwnedbyACDs is not one of them. They are not a good fit for this situation -- they are more dog aggressive than anything (animal aggressive, really, which means cats and livestock too).


I only read the opening post and I don't know the OP. Tosa is not aggressive IF they are trained correctly and socialized early. A friend of mine owns one and she's really sweet- fantastic with kids and lives with a Cane Corso. 
I have never recommended them before, actually. Ops.


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## workerant (Feb 28, 2011)

Somehow I'm only coming up with fluffy ideas: Chow Chows and Shiba Inus. Neither is exactly a guardian dog but they both tend to be one-person dogs and reserved with strangers. Bouviers des Flanders are excellent guardians - more finesse and good judgment than brute force.


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## MrsB (Aug 10, 2009)

I Know NOTHING about most dogs BUT I am from Brasil, and I have see the Filas many times, whoooooa, vicious guys. NOT for everyone. REALLY!
I know a person that was attacked by one also in Brasil.

And in relation to the last comment posted, YES! Shibas are VERY active, VERY territorial, one person dog.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Fila brasileiros have a higher risk of hip dysplasia then Rottweilers: http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html
I don't think the breed is actually any healthier. I've never had health issues with mine,but I only had one.
Cane corso's can be serious and intimidating dogs,some can also look very much like Presa Canario's. Dogos are known for some guard dog ability as well,but will likely do poor with livestock. Anatolians would be a good option as well. Tibetan mastiffs could be a option as well. It may be hard to find a breeder but ban dogs might work.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

I wouldn't put a doberman in your hands, let alone a Fila. I think it's too much of a risk given your (apparently sever) anxiety, OP.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

aiw said:


> EDIT: The other question I would ask is that most of these breeds need *extensive* socialization and you come out with a dog that's _still_ usually stranger aggressive. If you're that remote how are you going to socialize it properly?


 not sure if this is what your asking but I socialize my dogs not to change who they are, but to give them experience and exposure so they are confident in the world they live in.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

PatriciafromCO said:


> not sure if this is what your asking but I socialize my dogs not to change who they are, but to give them experience and exposure so they are confident in the world they live in.


Yes, I understand that. I was just pointing out that OP talks a lot about how no one ever comes to the property and its very remote so an extreme guardian dog would work. But if they're that remote then how will OP manage to socialize the dog properly? My understanding is that extensive and early socialization is even more important with naturally suspicious/aggressive breeds. An unsocialized fila sounds pretty lethal to me.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

aiw said:


> Yes, I understand that. I was just pointing out that OP talks a lot about how no one ever comes to the property and its very remote so an extreme guardian dog would work. But if they're that remote then how will OP manage to socialize the dog properly? My understanding is that extensive and early socialization is even more important with naturally suspicious/aggressive breeds. An unsocialized fila sounds pretty lethal to me.


would any of these breeds ever not be lethal ? am asking because I don't know if that is an expectation of them.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

PatriciafromCO said:


> would any of these breeds ever not be lethal ? am asking because I don't know if that is an expectation of them.


 Well I'm sure you know much more about it than me. I would think any of the breeds mentioned here could easily be lethal if they chose or if they were raised poorly. I don't think a properly handled, socialized and trained dog of any of these breeds are _necessarily_ lethal though. Just that their power and temperament make for a bigger liability and responsibility for the handler.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

PatriciafromCO said:


> would any of these breeds ever not be lethal ? am asking because I don't know if that is an expectation of them.


I think the question is whether one would be unintentionally or inappropriately lethal. If a dog can't tell friend from foe and he is a powerful breed that is intended for guard purposes, then he is a liability IMO. Not speaking from the perspective of a guard dog owner, strictly speaking from the perspective of a person with powerful dogs. 

If someone is anxious, I would think the dogs would pick up on it. So in that case, a dog breed that looks scary but is NOT scary may be a reasonable choice. A large black mutt. A large dark colored hound dog like maybe a Plott or Mountain Cur. something that will bark and alert and seem imposing but is unlikely to attack someone that innocently arrives on the property or a vet etc.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

I was sincerely asking (lack of knowledge/experience) about the other breeds mentioned here and the Fila as the OP started the thread on (if there is ever an expectation of them not being lethal).. Arka is highly intelligent and confident, being exposed to the outside world just adds to the intelligent and confident deciding what is threat no threat off property but that is only one dog raised by me. I don't have an expectation that Arka will not be lethal because of his size and intensity. would better say he is a manageable but that was a reason I chose him over others. And I have a cane corso she has a better visual effect on people,, then Arka does


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

ok is the word lethal a political incorrect word ?


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

PatriciafromCO said:


> ok is the word lethal a political incorrect word ?


I think its pretty apt for the breeds described here. I didn't want to suggest that all dogs of these breeds are a danger to society, if properly raised and handled. But from the descriptions here and other places, owning a dog like fila or TM seems to be like owning a weapon, careful and responsible training and management are essential.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I've never meet a mean Tibetan Mastiff,and there's plenty around here,I would not say they are anymore lethal then Pit bulls,Rotties,or German Shepherds.


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## TRDmom (Mar 3, 2013)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> I will throw another breed into the mix, what about a beauceron?


I thought about them too!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

As my Late Great Grandaddy said... (among other folks) It is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog....

The problem with the giant breeds is dog management....

When it comes to watching my back, I will take a 60 pound fire eater EVERY time over a big slow dog....


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Some big dogs can be faster then you think,My Newfie could outrun my cat. If he ran into you he would knock you over and you would have a sprained leg for a week,I know. Great danes can run up to 30 miles an hour.
Big dogs are the best for intimidation,I've heard of intire gangs backing off just because a Rottweiler was there,most people don't need an a attack dog. I prefer 60-110ib dogs,what about a Kangal/Anatolian shepherd? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHOX9JbkfWY&list=FLJZ981Xc_Gu6CH5bZcK0i5g&index=63
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogQ0LC5144Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU4rdjoKibI


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Foresthund said:


> Some big dogs can be faster then you think,My Newfie could outrun my cat. If he ran into you he would knock you over and you would have a sprained leg for a week,I know. Great danes can run up to 30 miles an hour.
> Big dogs are the best for intimidation,I've heard of intire gangs backing off just because a Rottweiler was there,most people don't need an a attack dog. I prefer 60-110ib dogs,what about a Kangal/Anatolian shepherd? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHOX9JbkfWY&list=FLJZ981Xc_Gu6CH5bZcK0i5g&index=63
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogQ0LC5144Y
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU4rdjoKibI


30 mph is not really that fast. But there is more to it than that... I bet your cat can out run your Newf from the couch to the front door....

A small compact dog is QUICK and FAST... Most defensive situations with dogs, are at close range. A big lumbering dog does not have room to open up. And that matters.... Because when a dog fights a man, the bite is only part of the equation.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Well faster then a person and most dogs. It was when my Newfie was younger and leaner. They where outside,the dog chased the cat across the yard,then darted in front of the cat. Stopped then cat turned around and went up a tree. He caught and killed a bird as well. He is no longer around though.

I've heard of a Rottweiler pinning a man with still a muzzle on,it was a loose dog attack and the mans punches and fighting had no effect. http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/144186-can-attacking-rottweiler-still.html
Small dogs get thrown around more,and here more about them suffering from injuries in such cases. A lot of it depends on the build of the dog and not the size,They need huge dogs to kill wolves that prey on livestock,a human is much slower and weaker then a wolf.
They have also used a game line of Tosas and some kangals and Ovtcharkas to fight and used successfully against game pit bulls. 
There is anther saying that a good big dog will beat a good small dog anytime,I've heard even people with pit bulls say this. They can still out run you,out maneuver you,you cant throw them around,immense bite force,thick necks,hard heads,big mouths,they can still jump 4 feet high,some can run for miles,they can pull you down from a stand still,some can kill wolves and cougars. Some huge dogs I would not mess with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahwFujle7CE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDV5CZrF6Y8&list=FLJZ981Xc_Gu6CH5bZcK0i5g&index=52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuMz8F8pkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2LbRYUyWKA&list=FLJZ981Xc_Gu6CH5bZcK0i5g&index=285
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKGwq_FxIuQ&list=PLD1D5BC11FECD5B32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN0m7OCilTw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV8QH7W9f9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB7Nmx_N1bY
Me I prefer any dog that can mix strength with agility,even if they may not be the fastest.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

will never try to compare Arka to a mal on quickness, tight turns .. I can only say am impressed how quickly he can cover ground .. Him and Adele the corso, do some really hard mid air full body crashing for playing, being knocked down on his side is not an issue for Arka he is up like a cat with a funny full air full body flying squirrel move engulfing over Adele to squish her to the ground in just seconds of rebounding.. Can only watch as he grows in size and see what he is able to do with his body using his strength. Don't think 5ft or 6ft fencing is going to be an issue for him.. Do I think he is going to be 160-200lbs (no) good tight body as I have seen in some of the other breeds listed here...


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Foresthund said:


> Well faster then a person and most dogs. It was when my Newfie was younger and leaner. They where outside,the dog chased the cat across the yard,then darted in front of the cat. Stopped then cat turned around and went up a tree. He caught and killed a bird as well. He is no longer around though.
> 
> I've heard of a Rottweiler pinning a man with still a muzzle on,it was a loose dog attack and the mans punches and fighting had no effect. http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/144186-can-attacking-rottweiler-still.html
> Small dogs get thrown around more,and here more about them suffering from injuries in such cases. A lot of it depends on the build of the dog and not the size,They need huge dogs to kill wolves that prey on livestock,a human is much slower and weaker then a wolf.
> ...


Well what you are referring to in reference to the Rottweiler with a muzzle is trained for all the time. Called Muzzle Training. And it still does not take a big dog. My 55 pound ACD will knock down a man and keep him down. He has caused minor injury on more than one occasion. 

I have never heard a pit guy make that comment about a big dog versus a small dog. And I have been involved with Pits for 45 years. 

I do not care for the references involving dog fighting and think it is poor taste. 


I will say that as a lifelong hog hunter, I have seen a lot of catch dogs in my life. A small pit is better than a big pit. The big dog is going to get hurt. Because it is not all about power. It is about speed and agility. The big dog is going to get cut.... I would not own a 70 pound catch dog. All the ones I have owned were between 40-50 pounds. Some folks get away with using big slower dogs for hogs now because of kevlar cut vests. But 25 years ago, those dogs would be dead. 


And... A wise man once said... Actually a bunch of wise men have said it.....

It is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog....


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I am also looking at Boerboels as well as a few on other forums mentions they might be a better Rita's one of the more "less intense" guardian breeds. 

Of course shelter & rescue isn't out of the question either ... The right dog can come from anywhere


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

I... would not call the Boerboel a less intense guardian breed.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Hence why I put "less intense" in quotes lol


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Well, I'd go look for owners and breeders of Boerboels then, and see what you can find out about the breed. 

I know them as severe, intense dogs. They love their family and good friends of the family and are very wary of strangers, will defend the home with passion--if they're bred well. If they're not bred well, they can be overly aggressive and dangerous even to their owners. So a bit of caution there. From what I've heard, until they're about two years old they're pretty much goofballs and then they have a 'turning point' where they become a lot more serious. That's the time when intruders can enter your property--but not get out. 

Also keep in mind they're really, really strong dogs, both physically and mentally. Headstrong, independent. Big, powerful and muscular.


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## Emily1188 (Jun 21, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> It is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog....


Yeah... my 50 lb Mal bitch has no problem knocking a decoy around.

I am not denying that there are applications for larger or giant breed dogs, but I don't buy for a second that they are inherently better suited to protection work than my medium-sized lunatic.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I give large dogs credit where it's due, our Anatolian shepherd was surprisingly fast when he had to be, he could turn on a dime ... Not saying he was quicker then my ACD's, but I will still credit him that, for his size, he was one quick dude.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Emily1188 said:


> Yeah... my 50 lb Mal bitch has no problem knocking a decoy around.
> 
> I am not denying that there are applications for larger or giant breed dogs, but I don't buy for a second that they are inherently better suited to protection work than my medium-sized lunatic.


Yeah...I have no illusions that my dog's size will help him much when it comes to bitework. In fact, it will likely just slow him down and we'll have to work around that.

However, in the area of warming me up this winter, that size will definitely be of good use!


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## HayleyMarie (Dec 22, 2008)

Hey. I see you have gotten some great info on this forums  I wanted to pipe in about the Boerboel. I know you put "less intense" in quotes, but I wanted to add, they are a very intense guardian breed that needs tons and tons of socialization. Now, you said you live in the middle of no where. How are you planning on socializing a guardian breed when you live in the middle of no where?

There are two types of Boerboel the mastiff body style is bigger, slower and the hound style which is faster, more agile and a lot more energy. My boys father is a very intense guardian. Although he is safe out in public with his breeder he would not hesitate to take over a situation he did not agree with. They take their job of protecting their family, vehicle and house very seriously. They are a very dominate breed, which means stubborn and manipulative. My boy is already testing me. And they need lots of training.

When looking at breeders stay far away from breeders breeding black and rottie marked Boerboels. Also health testing is very, very important.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Watch about 50 seconds then later in this video.... Those show what a good mid sized dog can do. 






Now here is a boerboel biting...





Which one is hitting harder?


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Johnny, there is something about watching that first video that actually has an emotional response with me. Happens everytime I watch bitework training with well trained dogs. They are absolutely amazing and LOVE their job. 

One day perhaps when my non-existent kids are grown (haha) I will be able to have a mal in my life and do it. 

What are the sticks they use made of? They seem to break easy on the dogs.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Watch about 50 seconds then later in this video.... Those show what a good mid sized dog can do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How come I see no video? Did you remove it?


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

This is a great video of a handler getting tossed by a rottie...it's at around 4:40. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of Doc. 






One thing people need to keep in mind when watching videos like this is these dogs are HIGHLY TRAINED and the owners are 1000% committed to training their dogs. I just get spooked about people watching Schutzhund videos and thinking...my dog can do that! This and the training is all so highly controlled. Anyone who wants a dog that will do bitework without the doing proper training and is completely committed to that training is asking for serious trouble.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I never said a a dog over 100 ibs was inherently better then one that's about 50-70ibs,I was mainly arguing that they where not inherently worse.
A lot of huge dogs are bred to heavy built to be that useful in catching a athletic adult human. Although they can still be very threatening and deter someone from attacking you. So it kinda depends on what you want in a protection dog. I've heard of dogs breaking human bones,usually mastiffs,Rottweilers,Pit bulls and one GSD, so dogs with immense bite force are actually risky to use.
I`m not a bigger is better person neciarrlly,being I find the 70-110ib lighter built Rotties the best.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Pit bulls actually have the lesser bite strength when compared to GSD's, mals, & even ACDs ( I say "even" because ACDs aren't usually saught for bite work) the damage from a PB comes from the classic terrier "hold n' shake" a trait that all terriers from jack Russell's to airadales have.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Foresthund said:


> I never said a a dog over 100 ibs was inherently better then one that's about 50-70ibs,I was mainly arguing that they where not inherently worse.
> A lot of huge dogs are bred to heavy built to be that useful in catching a athletic adult human. Although they can still be very threatening and deter someone from attacking you. So it kinda depends on what you want in a protection dog. I've heard of dogs breaking human bones,usually mastiffs,Rottweilers,Pit bulls and one GSD, so dogs with immense bite force are actually risky to use.
> I`m not a bigger is better person neciarrlly,being I find the 70-110ib lighter built Rotties the best.


Better than what? I am not knocking Rotties... But a GSD a Bel Mal, and most definately a Dutchie will out run, out hit and out fight a Rottie. 

There is a reason Rotties are not commonly used in the US for police work. Back in the early and mid 80's there were some agencies that thought they were HOT STUFF.... The County I live in got four during that time period. They have not got one since.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Pit bulls actually have the lesser bite strength when compared to GSD's, mals, & even ACDs ( I say "even" because ACDs aren't usually saught for bite work) the damage from a PB comes from the classic terrier "hold n' shake" a trait that all terriers from jack Russell's to airadales have.


Having had the pleasure of prying both pit bulls and ACDs off of things... I would say on average an ACD bites harder. But he should... He is built to bite harder.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I like them Better then heavier or larger Rottweilers. When did I say Rottweilers where better then GSD's or other dogs,I was using them as a example as a large guard dog.
Plus when I talked to a cop they said that if they don't use shepherd types that they would be confused for police dogs,and theres a preference for more agile dogs,and they don't want what would be considered a "dangerous" dog.and I will agree that Rottweilers like Dobermans have been mostly poorly bred lately. 
Pit bulls and American bulldogs are extremely hard hitting,agile,commonly found and powerful, yet are not used at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ari_rTvTeAs&list=FLJZ981Xc_Gu6CH5bZcK0i5g&index=52

Bite pressure has never been truly tested,if you read about past fighting dogs they will mention individuals with strong to poor bite strength, even of the same breed. It depends on the individual and how hard the dog bites down. I heard in the news of a Rottweiler killing a ACD,by biting its thigh and shaking it to death. Dogs are individuals,I bet you can find ferocious and tenacious Labs out there. No dog will win over another 100% of the time,nor will it be a better guard/attack dog 100% of the time. Breeding,training,raising,experience and age all are big factors. I know Rottweilers are not the best out there,but I don't care.
The ACD's I've known where fearful dogs,so I cant judge by them,yet it seems to be how people judge other dogs. My Newfie had a hard bite,could rip through metal cans. Yet I know my Rottie has bitten harder in accidental fights,which ended in him getting the best of a pit and gsd mix. Other dogs can do the hold and shake,I've seen non pit bull or terriers do it.

I hate this kinda what breed is best argument so I'm going to stop it,its just going in circles,I prefer to see them as individuals and how there bred.


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## Khan2 (Dec 15, 2019)

Hey mate ! Please tell me you can get hold of a female fila for me or even a male pup. I've been looking for one for 5 years! I've got a bandog currently . Hald pit half fila. What am amazing soul that one is. pls get back to me even if the answer is no lol the anticipation will kill me [email protected]


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Thread is six years old and the OP hasn't been here for two months.


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