# Calling all husky people...



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I need help...

The BF wants a Husky, and I gotta be honest, while I'm sure they're a GREAT breed for you....I hate them.

They're generally cat killers
They Howl
They Dig
They're too independent
They require a fenced yard
They choose when they listen

There's just a lot I don't like about them, and I work with them all the time at kennel club, and at one point actually worked with them in a show kennel...and these dogs just make me cry. They don't seem to think humans are important at all, and to me that just isn't a dog 

I don't want a dog I have to watch all the time so it doesn't kill my cats.
I don't want a dog that doesn't come when I call it because it doesn't feel like it at the moment.
I don't want a dog that ignores me just because it can.
I don't want a dog I can't trust off leash.
I don't want a dog that goes Jekyll and Hyde on me and heels beautifully one moment and refuses to move the next.

They just seem to have very, very little pack drive, and to me, that just isn't a dog that is enjoyable to live with. But Jon really likes them, and if we ever end up with one from a reputable breeder, I have to be on board with it to. Is there ANYTHING positive about them?

I'm sure some of you think their independence is great, but to me, a dog that ignores their human just isn't a dog


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## iwantmypup (Jan 6, 2007)

Erm... Hate is a strong word?
Your lucky this isn't my breed...


Ihope you can find the right dog for you...


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Huskies tend to have amplified behaviors, if that makes sense.

I think a lot of the negatives you described depend on the dog. I've known huskies that love cats, huskies that abide by their owner's commands, huskies that absolutely adore their people.

Yes, these qualities can sometimes be attributed to huskies, but they can be attributed to any other breed. It depends on the dog, and how you raise him. If they are raised around cats... chances are they won't harm them.

However, I don't see howling and independence as negative things. They're actually part of why I like the breed. I mean, you like cats... how often will a cat obey your commands?


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

What about looking for a husky-looking-but-non-husky-acting MIX? 

What about a Eurasier? Keeshond?

I should also clarify, I think huskies are HORRIBLE dogs for most pet owners. HORRIBLE. I think they work VERY well in a specific type of household but in anyother, tend to be nuisances at best or GONE at worst.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Erm... Hate is a strong word?


After working with quite a few of them, I'm pretty set in how I feel about them. 98% of the experiences I've had with them have been bad ones.



> how often will a cat obey your commands?


But those are cats..I don't expect cats to listen to me. Cats are WONDERFUL animals, and I am actually a "cat person", but there's not a whole lot I can do with them. But they do love to cuddle...I was very big on socializing, so I've always had exceedingly friendly furpurrs. But I don't expect them to come when I call (they do, but I don't expect them to like I do a dog).

I expect my dogs to listen to me and not ignore me. Their life could depend on it. I'm not going to worry about a house cat not dropping immediately when I tell it to lie down....nothing is going to happen to it. The dog could be hit by a car.

I've worked with these dogs, and watched people work with these dogs. I'm just not the kind of person that can deal with a dog that is UD material one trial, and the next acts like it has never even learned to sit. They just seem to have no rhyme or reason to when they listen and when they don't.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

JessRU09 said:


> Huskies tend to have amplified behaviors, if that makes sense.
> 
> I think a lot of the negatives you described depend on the dog. I've known huskies that love cats, huskies that abide by their owner's commands, huskies that absolutely adore their people.
> 
> ...


Through the years I have trained maybe 6 huskies and I never had a difficult one. 2 were stars, of course I never owned one and had to live with it. I would think there are some that are better than others but the fun is in the picking. These dogs were also trained with old school methods. One of them I told owners if they ever had to get rid of the dog in an emergency, he could live out his life in our home. Check avatar.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Xeph said:


> After working with quite a few of them, I'm pretty set in how I feel about them. 98% of the experiences I've had with them have been bad ones.
> 
> 
> But those are cats..I don't expect cats to listen to me. Cats are WONDERFUL animals, and I am actually a "cat person", but there's not a whole lot I can do with them. But they do love to cuddle...I was very big on socializing, so I've always had exceedingly friendly furpurrs. But I don't expect them to come when I call (they do, but I don't expect them to like I do a dog).
> ...


I see what you mean, though I dunno. What were the backgrounds of the kennel club huskies you worked with?

I see huskies at my local park all the time, many of which I've watched grow over the past few months. They are some of the most well behaved dogs at the park, but again... I think it really depends on what kind of person you are as an owner. This one Canadian fellow was visiting for a few weeks with his two beautiful young huskies. They stood by him and followed his every command, even as other dogs were pouncing at them and ignoring their owners.

They are working dogs, bred to work as a team and pull sleds. If it were impossible for any of them to follow commands... I just don't see how that would be possible.

Then again, as much as I adore the breed, I myself have never owned one. So I can't really defend them. I'll wait for some of the husky owners to chime in, and explain from their own experiences why they are great dogs (for those who can handle them).


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

Huskies are definitely different LOL.

I would agree with most of what you posted above Xeph and also add the very very short attention span for training. Sometimes I wonder if my husky has ADHD becasue he could get distracted from what he was originally doing by a patch of grass! LOL

Also, I've noticed huskies have a different way of playing with each other. Nothing makes Ilya happier than to play with another husky... though he tries to get other dogs to play with him... they just don't understand.

Mine needs reassurance that "we will be back" and gets a very nervous stomach if he gets too upset.

I don't think he's very independent though. He has seperation anxiety and has to litterally stay at my foot nearly 24/7. I have to say... he's quite genuine. He doesn't go to strangers and loves his family... even gives them hugs.

They hardly bark and mine will try to talk to you... especially if he's complaining.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Working with Huskies are not that hard, and you have a huge misunderstanding of their behavior. As with all things, while everything you said is "accurate", they are exaggerations.

Saying they don't pay attention to their human is a gross misunderstanding. They are always watching you, always listening to you, and always want to be near you or aware of where you are. Separation anxiety is rampant.



> They're generally cat killers












Raised and trained properly, they are not cat killers. Your GSD's have just as much of a prey drive, or they should if they are in fact GSD's. Control the drive, control the dog applies here.



> They Howl


No more than your dogs bark.



> They Dig


That's a individual thing and can be trained.



> They're too independent
> They require a fenced yard


I don't think you understand what "independent" means in the Husky context. They are willing to make decisions for themselves where the owner does not make one. Training helps with this.



> They choose when they listen


That's also a training thing.



> I don't want a dog I have to watch all the time so it doesn't kill my cats.
> I don't want a dog that doesn't come when I call it because it doesn't feel like it at the moment.
> I don't want a dog that ignores me just because it can.
> I don't want a dog I can't trust off leash.
> I don't want a dog that goes Jekyll and Hyde on me and heels beautifully one moment and refuses to move the next.


Raising huskies with cats nixes that issue, Ollie's never had any really formal recall training but I have very little issue recalling Kobe. Any dog will ignore you if it can unless you introduce a reinforcer or punishment. The off leash thing is a fact of life but with training it's manageable. And no, they don't go jerkyll and hyde on you. Kobe and Ollie walk loose leash just fine.

I trained Ollie from being highly leash reactive to walking in crowds of dogs loose leash in 6 months. With a even more adjusted dog, it would be easier.



> They just seem to have very, very little pack drive, and to me, that just isn't a dog that is enjoyable to live with.


I don't know where you heard this pack drive thing. Their pack drive is extraordinary. Priscilla (my GSD) doesn't even have a quarter of the pack drive my Huskies do.

There's a lot of positive about them if you're willing to work with them instead of treating them like a servant.



> I'm sure some of you think their independence is great, but to me, a dog that ignores their human just isn't a dog


Huskies do many things, ignoring you is not one of them.



> I've worked with these dogs, and watched people work with these dogs. I'm just not the kind of person that can deal with a dog that is UD material one trial, and the next acts like it has never even learned to sit. They just seem to have no rhyme or reason to when they listen and when they don't.


I've never seen anything like that in all my time in the Husky rescue. Kobe was taught shake, sit, down, loose leash walking, etc nearly a year ago. And he's been doing all of it without a reinforcer since then.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

They were AKC show dogs...kennel dogs mostly. There were a couple house dogs....one was so old he didn't really do anything, the other one was inside basically to keep his coat. He was sweet, but still not my kind of dog (he was a red).

I've worked with Husky puppies, adolescents, adults, and seniors. They take a lot more "convincing" to teach to sit or lie down than the other dogs. I don't want to have to make it worth a dog's while to do simple things like just sit or lie down. And I hear (and have witnessed) that if you don't keep a husky entertained, it will destroy things...and they do. Why can't they just go lie down and chew on a bone for awhile like any other dog?



> They are working dogs, bred to work as a team and pull sleds.


Yes, but I watch them work and they're working more with each other than the musher. The musher may give commands, but they're few and far in between....the dogs are bred and trained to be independent and to work things out for themselves...and they do. And if they follow "Gee" and "haw" at all, it just seems to me it's more because they're in harness than a real willingness to do it.

These are intelligent dogs, I know that. I don't have an issue with a smart dog. I have an issue with dogs that choose to ignore what they've learned on a seemingly frequent basis. And they do it because they can, not because of stress.

Maybe I just happen to meet all the "bad" ones.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

I was hoping you'd chime in, RBark. I knew you had the first hand experience with this breed.



Xeph said:


> And I hear (and have witnessed) that if you don't keep a husky entertained, it will destroy things...and they do. Why can't they just go lie down and chew on a bone for awhile like any other dog?


Most high energy dog breeds are prone to destroying things. In fact, I think most dogs in general will tear stuff up if they're not properly stimulated. Dexter tears up napkins and tissues out of our garbage, and he ate off the back of a notebook.

I've seem plenty of threads on here where people discussed things their dogs have destroyed. And this isn't a husky forum... all the issues you've described are issues that span all dog breeds.

It stinks that you've had so many bad experiences with them... but I think with adequate day to day care, a husky would be just as difficult, and just as rewarding, as a GSD or any other breed.


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

I think the basis of most issues is exercise. As stated above, Huskies were originally bred to pull people across snow and ice as a means of transportation. This required a sturdy dog that could handle tough terrain, the extreme cold conditions, and be able to travels for miles on end. The husky is the ultimate traveling machine.

Here is where problems arise. The 'destroying', and 'low attention span', and such other problems usually come from a lack of exercise. Most huskies need atleast an hour of brisk walk/jogging each day, and some more than that. Yes, you can get the occasional couch potato husky, but it is not common. 

As to your sled analogy, I don't believe that is correct. The reason the musher says those commands is to tell the dogs where to go. Otherwise the dogs would be utterly lost. The dogs are very intent on the musher in following instructions, and in return the musher is allowed to follow the huskies keen sense of direction when in a lost situation.

Yes, huskies do require more care than other dogs, but I don't think much more than a GSD. Both are high energy, learn quickly when trained correctly, and both can become very attatched to owners.


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

> These are intelligent dogs, I know that. I don't have an issue with a smart dog. I have an issue with dogs that choose to ignore what they've learned on a seemingly frequent basis.


Though mine will ocassionally ignore verbal commands, he responds well to body languague. If you have proximity and established a relationship, I dont seem mine being difficult to train... just different from my terrier.


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## pattymac (Oct 11, 2008)

I have a husky/shep mix and yes she is a challenging dog, but she is definately getting better as she gets older. She's super smart and lives with 2 cats. I trust her off leash, now she does have a high prey drive so when I know there's gonna be cats she is onleash in the neighbourhood...my neighbours are scared of her cause she looks more Shepherd. If I let her off leash in the park or on our trails I never worry she always keeps me in sight and it only takes one call for her to come back. We're working on the outdoor kitty thing and calling the outside cat by one of her cat's names seems to work to quiet her down when she's getting excited by it. She learned from day one coming here that the kitties are not play toys. She does like to herd them and has a thing for licking cat ears but they're both are not afraid to let her know when they've had enough cold nose on the butt and she knows when they mean business  

Sometimes she'll ignore simple commands especially at the park, but she always comes when called or will follow me if I go to leave. Although actually she's getting alot better with that too. I think maturity has a lot to do with it in a dog, she's almost 3 and boy when she was a 8 months- 1 year she could be a major pain in the butt!!!


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> I've worked with Husky puppies, adolescents, adults, and seniors. They take a lot more "convincing" to teach to sit or lie down than the other dogs. I don't want to have to make it worth a dog's while to do simple things like just sit or lie down. And I hear (and have witnessed) that if you don't keep a husky entertained, it will destroy things...and they do. Why can't they just go lie down and chew on a bone for awhile like any other dog?


You're making a logical fallacy here. Priscilla is more destructive than my Huskies. Kobe is loose in my house during the day. Priscilla destroys anything she can get her mouth or paw on. Underexercised and understimulated dogs are destructive dogs. Most people don't exercise and stimulate their Huskies properly. If you do it properly, you won't have any more issue with this than any other dog.

Harrise's dogs are loose all day too.



> Yes, but I watch them work and they're working more with each other than the musher. The musher may give commands, but they're few and far in between....the dogs are bred and trained to be independent and to work things out for themselves...and they do. And if they follow "Gee" and "haw" at all, it just seems to me it's more because they're in harness than a real willingness to do it.


Another misunderstanding. Ollie and Kobe both follow commands perfectly while pulling. No reinforcement needed whatsoever on my part. They will move however I tell them to move.



> These are intelligent dogs, I know that. I don't have an issue with a smart dog. I have an issue with dogs that choose to ignore what they've learned on a seemingly frequent basis. And they do it because they can, not because of stress.
> 
> Maybe I just happen to meet all the "bad" ones.


You haven't met bad ones, you just are looking at this all wrong.



K9companions said:


> I think the basis of most issues is exercise. As stated above, Huskies were originally bred to pull people across snow and ice as a means of transportation. This required a sturdy dog that could handle tough terrain, the extreme cold conditions, and be able to travels for miles on end. The husky is the ultimate traveling machine.
> 
> Here is where problems arise. The 'destroying', and 'low attention span', and such other problems usually come from a lack of exercise. Most huskies need atleast an hour of brisk walk/jogging each day, and some more than that. Yes, you can get the occasional couch potato husky, but it is not common.
> 
> ...


You're almost correct. The act of pulling is a self-reinforcer. So, when following directions means more pulling, it's an reinforcer by itself. That's why it's rather easy to train a Husky to follow commands.

And yeah, my huskies are no more and no less work than a GSD. They are just two different motivation priorities, but the same underlying concept applies, control the drive, control the dog. Exercise it, keep it mentally stimulated, and they are content. Most dogs are not much different than that.


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## SMoore (Nov 9, 2007)

Xeph,

When I first found out my boyfriend wanted a husky I felt pretty much the same way. Then some friends of ours had to rehome their husky and we took him in.

I could not have asked for a better dog. I have heard people say he doesn't have typical husky behavior but I like to hope it was because we raised him properly.

He can and will howl but only if sirens go by or there is someone down the street they own two huskys, if they start howling ALL my dogs howl (including the two shepherds!) 

He is such a quick learner that I have to be careful what im teaching him, he's never tried to run away although has proved he can climb my fence (he has joined me while I was just taking Pandora for a walk and invited himself to come with) however he's never climbed the fence to run away. The most he has done is climb over and then will be asleep on our front poorch or will scratch at the door.

He gets along fine with my cat, Max the shepherd I adopted will still sometimes mouth at the cat and Cain starts growling at him (the shepherd) to get away from his buddy. Cain is very protective of his cat. He won't even let Pandora bark at him.

All my dogs dig, but they only dig in their sandbox that I bought just for them to dig in.

I would have another one in a heartbeat. I don't know what i'd do without Cain, he has been such a joy to raise and I hope to have many many years to come with him.



















Oh and Cain isn't pure bred, he was sold as a wolf hybrid but my best guess is a husky/shepherd mix. I don't think there is any wolf in him. The friends that gave him to me said he was sold as a wolf hybrid.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

I thought I should mention... I taught Ollie and Kobe recall in a dog park by... dun dun dun, leaving the dog park without them. That was such a severe punishment for them that they never ignored a "let's go" at the dog park again, after that one time. That kind of goes against pretty much everything you have to say about them


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

RBark said:


> I thought I should mention... I taught Ollie and Kobe recall in a dog park by... dun dun dun, leaving the dog park without them. That was such a severe punishment for them that they never ignored a "let's go" at the dog park again, after that one time. That kind of goes against pretty much everything you have to say about them



Hehe, that would do it with my dog too. He's already trained in recall, but if ever he lost it somehow, I would just have to pretend to leave and he would never make the mistake again. Hes a genuine 'velcro' dog. Lol.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> They are just two different motivation priorities


I guess you're just braver than I am....I like "normal" motivation priorities...ones that don't involve pulling. To be fair, I'm not a fan of most northern breeds (or Gundogs...). I'm not big on independence.

I just seem to find a good balance in the Shepherds. They look to me for direction, but I can still work distance with them and know they'll come back when I call (strauss took an e collar for that, but he does it).

I guess I just keep meeting the wrong ones 

And I'm afraid if I do end up "consenting" to getting one and I really give it a good shot and working with it, that I still just won't like the dog. I tolerate our Labrador, but I don't like him. I train with him, but it's not fun like it is with my Shepherds or the other herders I've worked with.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> I guess you're just braver than I am....I like "normal" motivation priorities...ones that don't involve pulling. To be fair, I'm not a fan of most northern breeds (or Gundogs...). I'm not big on independence.


There's no "normal" motivation priorities. Starve a dog for a week, food will be his highest priority. Pair an reinforcer with something, their priorities change. My huskies will do anything for a treat.



> I just seem to find a good balance in t
> he Shepherds. They look to me for direction, but I can still work distance with them and know they'll come back when I call (strauss took an e collar for that, but he does it).


I don't understand why you can say the latter for a GSD, but not apply that to Huskies. A e-collar would stop most huskies too. You seem to be giving GSD's more leeway in this regard than other dogs.



> And I'm afraid if I do end up "consenting" to getting one and I really give it a good shot and working with it, that I still just won't like the dog. I tolerate our Labrador, but I don't like him. I train with him, but it's not fun like it is with my Shepherds or the other herders I've worked with.


I mean no offense, but I have a feeling that your opinion towards your dogs is reflected very well in the training.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Xeph said:


> And I'm afraid if I do end up "consenting" to getting one and I really give it a good shot and working with it, *that I still just won't like the dog*. I tolerate our Labrador, but I don't like him. I train with him, but it's not fun like it is with my Shepherds or the other herders I've worked with.


You have to go about it with an open mind. Throw away your preconceived notions about the breed. Or else you probably will end up disliking him.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Of course it is....I have the Labrador as a favor to my family. I don't even like him. He's obnoxiously happy, he's overly friendly, and he's hard to train because he really is just....dim. I'm not a Lab fan, but I will admit I've met some highly intelligent ones that are lovely to watch work. Buddy is not one of them (I don't even like his name). I work with him because all dogs need to be trained, but I don't find it enjoyable.



> A e-collar would stop most huskies too.


But my honest question is, would they stop to pitch a fit about it, or shrug it off as another correction and fix the mistake.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Of course it is....I have the Labrador as a favor to my family. I don't even like him. He's obnoxiously happy, he's overly friendly, and he's hard to train because he really is just....dim. I'm not a Lab fan, but I will admit I've met some highly intelligent ones that are lovely to watch work. Buddy is not one of them (I don't even like his name). I work with him because all dogs need to be trained, but I don't find it enjoyable.
> 
> 
> But my honest question is, would they stop to pitch a fit about it, or shrug it off as another correction and fix the mistake.


They'd react no different than any GSD, or dog for that matter.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Xeph said:


> But my honest question is, would they stop to pitch a fit about it, or shrug it off as another correction and fix the mistake.


Just as with GSDs, labs, malamutes, jack russel terriers, scotties, bulldogs, pit bulls, etc., it depends on the dog and what kind of training he/she has been subjected to throughout their life.

Dogs are like people. They're all different.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Xeph said:


> But my honest question is, would they stop to pitch a fit about it, or shrug it off as another correction and fix the mistake.


Judging by this comment, I think perhaps your trouble is more that your particular dogs tolerate your training techniques. Not enjoy, tolerate. Because what dog enjoys aversive training?

If you try that on other dogs, you may well not have the same results. That is not a fault of the dogs, that is the fault of you not being willing to adapt your training style to individuals that don't or can't tolerate your techniques.

Judging by this thread I would recommend that you refuse to get a husky. No dog should have to live such that one of its owners dislikes it before it really has a chance.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I've used one major aversive Shaina....an e collar to save my dog's life. He jumped OVER (not climbed, JUMPED) my fence to chase a rabbit. That was the last straw. We live off a very busy road near a highway, and I wasn't going to risk my dog's life so he could enjoy himself chasing rabbits.

I re-taught his heel and focus work using clicker training. I taught his retrieves on the flat and over the wall jump using clicker training, I trained his send over the broad jump using clicker training, I've been training his agility contacts through clicker training.

His Utility send out, scent articles, directed jumping, and hand signals....all clicker training. He enjoys working and training, and (most days ) I enjoy working and training with him. I've met Shepherds I LOVE to train, and Shepherds I don't even want to bother with because they're so unpleasant.

People may not like how I feel about certain dogs or breeds, but at least I'm honest about it,


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Xeph said:


> I've used one major aversive Shaina....an e collar to save my dog's life. He jumped OVER (not climbed, JUMPED) my fence to chase a rabbit. That was the last straw. We live off a very busy road near a highway, and I wasn't going to risk my dog's life so he could enjoy himself chasing rabbits.


Sounds like its not just huskies that need fenced-in yards, eh? It seems like your heart is set against the breed. And based on what you said about your distaste for Labradors, you probably will have little luck becoming attached to a husky. Some dogs aren't for everyone, and I feel any setback you have in training a husky you might attribute to him being a "bad dog".


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Xeph said:


> People may not like how I feel about certain dogs or breeds, but at least I'm honest about it,


Being honest when asked and going out of your way to announce your dislike of a breed and run them down to people who own the breed are not really the same thing 


That said I'm glad to hear you otherwise trained your dogs using a different method. I still don't see how a dog's reaction to an aversive is determinate of his worth as a dog or pet.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> I've used one major aversive Shaina....an e collar to save my dog's life. He jumped OVER (not climbed, JUMPED) my fence to chase a rabbit. That was the last straw. We live off a very busy road near a highway, and I wasn't going to risk my dog's life so he could enjoy himself chasing rabbits.
> 
> I re-taught his heel and focus work using clicker training. I taught his retrieves on the flat and over the wall jump using clicker training, I trained his send over the broad jump using clicker training, I've been training his agility contacts through clicker training.
> 
> ...


You're not being honest about it. You're seeing what you want to see in every other dog but turning a blind eye to your own dogs. You speak of Strauss jumping over a fence to chase a rabbit, yet I have no fence and maybe 20 Turkeys ran/walked by my backyard last week and Kobe made no attempt at chasing them.

You haven't said a single thing about your dogs that couldn't be done with a Husky. If you don't want to risk your Husky's life, put a e-collar on it like you would with Strauss. You haven't said anything about Huskies that your dogs have not exhibited to you in the past.

You're welcome to not get whatsoever dog you want, but you're not being honest about anything in regards to this breed, or dogs in general.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I still don't see how a dog's reaction to an aversive is determinate of his worth as a dog or pet.


While this is not a thread about aversive training methods (and they do have their place), the dog's reaction IS important. Knowing your dog, it's personality, it's hardness, and biddability, and ability to rebound from harsher corrections (such as an e-collar) is important.

When working in sports like schutzhund, sometimes e-collars are necessary to get a dog to "out" after a revier, or a long bite....if the dog crumples from that correction or does not rebound properly, it's unlikely a dog suited to the work

I'm possibly more harsh on Huskies because of things I've seen and the ones I've worked with, and when I'm looking for a dog, I'm not looking for "just a pet". My dogs are pets, but when I purchase them from breeders, I'm looking for my next sport dog. I LIKE working in dog sports with my dogs.

And I didn't denounce the breed to anyone. They're WONDERFUL for some people, and I admire people like RBark that are suitable for the breed, but I don't at all think I'm the type of person that can deal with Northern/Spitz breeds for more than an hour training session.

Like I said, I'm sure many of the attributes in the Husky I dislike people like RBark DO like.



> Some dogs aren't for everyone, and I feel any setback you have in training a husky you might attribute to him being a "bad dog".


I can honestly say that any setbacks I had in training wouldn't be put on the dog. I know it's me. When I train Buddy, I know that (most of the time) it's me. He's just not fun to work with. He takes forever and a day to learn, and he NEVER understood clicker training (can't even get a blink out of this dog...doesn't at all connect the click with the reward).

In some ways, he's a better obedience dog than Strauss. His heeling and straight sits are FANTASTIC. His stand stays are NOT, because he wants to freaking say "HIIIII!!!!" to everybody >.< The GSD nature of "I see you but I don't care about you" is much more useful in that situation...and as a general whole I like owning a dog that DOESN'T want to say hi to everybody.

For JON I'd like to like this breed...but for myself...I'm ok just looking at them.

Heck, I like Giant Schnauzers too, and every couple years go through my "I WANT ONE!" even though I realistically know I'm a terrible owner for one. They are also much too stubborn and independent for me. I stick with "velcro" breeds that are easier to work with and are less frustrating.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

I can't remember off the top of my which particular breed im thinking of...but I seem to recall reading about Northern/Spitz breeds that are also herding dogs...maybe one of those would be a possible comprimise?

just a thought...


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> While this is not a thread about aversive training methods (and they do have their place), the dog's reaction IS important. Knowing your dog, it's personality, it's hardness, and biddability, and ability to rebound from harsher corrections (such as an e-collar) is important.
> 
> When working in sports like schutzhund, sometimes e-collars are necessary to get a dog to "out" after a revier, or a long bite....if the dog crumples from that correction or does not rebound properly, it's unlikely a dog suited to the work


One day while I was working on heeling with Priscilla, I was having a bad day and I was so frustrated with her. She pulled on the leash, and I got upset and leash popped her. An error on my part, that I should not have done. She pretty much shut down after that. 

She rebounds from bad experiences pretty well, but the point is that you keep trying to attribute things to a breed, when they are individual things, not breed things.



> I'm possibly more harsh on Huskies because of things I've seen and the ones I've worked with, and when I'm looking for a dog, I'm not looking for "just a pet". My dogs are pets, but when I purchase them from breeders, I'm looking for my next sport dog. I LIKE working in dog sports with my dogs.


I don't feel that you've spent enough time working with them. I had to adjust many of my training methods for Priscilla when I got her because they were not applicable to her. It took some figuring out to understand what clicks for her, and what doesn't. I'm sure you have to do the same with every dog you get. What works for one dog doesn't neccessarily work for another, and if you're not getting the desired response, then all you have to do is adjust your methods a bit. Training Priscilla is no harder and no easier than training my Huskies.

And it can't possibly be easier to do sports with Huskies. Pick up a bike, some sleds, rollerblades, whatever. Get a harness and tugline. Ta-da! Sports you can do anytime, anywhere! And it's self reinforcing for them! Teach them to go faster, go slower, make specific kinds of turns, u turns, stopping, passing on the right or left, going around obstacles, and so on.

People were SO impressed with Ollie when he pulled me on a bike. You know how at some entrances, there are concrete posts to prevent cars from passing? I'd tell him which one to pull me through and he'd do it. It's like extreme weaving LOL.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Well, there's a rather nice Husky kennel not to far from where he lives in Jersey that has some nice dogs. I showed him some of those northern spitz types, but he doesn't like the curly tail or the small size, and neither of us cares for Sammy's because they're just....white. Doesn't keep our interest.

He did show an interest in the Dutch Shepherd and Beauceron

http://www.siberlink.net/frankie.htm <--HOPE!!! GLIMMER OF LIGHT!!!!


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

How about a smiling Sammy? 

Mine was a terrible guard dog though. He would have probably held the flashlight for robbers or show them where the open door was.



oooops your post beat mine.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Well, there's a rather nice Husky kennel not to far from where he lives in Jersey that has some nice dogs. I showed him some of those northern spitz types, but he doesn't like the curly tail or the small size, and neither of us cares for Sammy's because they're just....white. Doesn't keep our interest.
> 
> He did show an interest in the Dutch Shepherd and Beauceron
> 
> http://www.siberlink.net/frankie.htm <--HOPE!!! GLIMMER OF LIGHT!!!!


Huskies do have curly tails, even the ones in your link. I can't think of any spitz breed without the curly tail. And Huskies are not large dogs, 35-50lb. Just making sure you're aware. I realize the dog in your link doesn't have it's tail curled, but that's normal for when they are running.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

No, I mean he doesn't like dogs that have a tail that rests on the back. All the show huskies I've seen don't have curly tails (what they call a snap tail, which I believe is a fault/serious fault as per the standard). When I was working at the kennel, the dogs gaited with their tails up, but they didn't curl over like a Samoyed or Elkhound.

By the way, I have NO idea if she's still breeding or in the same home, but the breeder of the above dog according to the SHCA's breeder referral for 08-09...lives 5 minutes from Lobo's house !


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> No, I mean he doesn't like dogs that have a tail that rests on the back. All the show huskies I've seen don't have curly tails (what they call a snap tail, which I believe is a fault/serious fault as per the standard). When I was working at the kennel, the dogs gaited with their tails up, but they didn't curl over like a Samoyed or Elkhound.
> 
> By the way, I have NO idea if she's still breeding or in the same home, but the breeder of the above dog according to the SHCA's breeder referral for 08-09...lives 5 minutes from Lobo's house !


Oh, I see what you mean now. Yeah, when it curls all the way back (like Kobe) it's incorrect.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Pick up a bike, some sleds, rollerblades, whatever. Get a harness and tugline. Ta-da! Sports you can do anytime, anywhere! And it's self reinforcing for them!


But my thing is I don't like to be pulled. That isn't enjoyable to me. I spend a lot of time teaching my dogs NOT to pull with the exception of conformation and schutzhund, and even in conf my dogs aren't really allowed to PULL, they're allowed to move out ahead of me. The line may be taut, but it's not tight.

You are probably right that I've not worked enough with them. The bad experiences just compound so I don't feel compelled to try working with them anymore, just as they do with other people and Shepherds, or Labs, or Goldens, etc.

That said, there seems to be a fantastic breeder all of 5 minutes from Jon's house that he wasn't even aware of  I thought that was interesting.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

i had a siberian husky growing up and he was the best dog you could ever ask for. he as loyal as anything, he loved to be around us, he NEVER barked and did not howl, he listened very well. i love him very much, even though he has been gone for a few years now. he did dig occasionally, but not often. he was not destructive at all. we now have a sammy and we LOVE him to pieces. iorek is a great dog. he could be destructive, i think, if he didn't get enough exercise, but that is all. he does not bark, he does not howl, he does not dig, he learned very quickly. he would be really good at agility and that would be a great way for us to get his energy out, we will make that decision in the spring. just because he is all white does not mean that he is boring at all! he makes the cutest faces, the sammy smile is for sure contagious!! his tail is very curly, and i did not like that at first, but now i LOVE it, it is his little quirk, that and his super long curly fur!! iorek is also very cuddly, he cuddles with us on the couch and the bed all the time! how could you say no to this face?? 















i love huskies! i know that they can be stubborn at times, but you know what?? so am i!! they have their own personalities and they are able to make their own decisions. i take that to mean that they are intelligent dogs. there are so many things that you can do with a husky; skijoring, pulling, agility (well, iorek can anyway!) and you can knit their fur into things!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Xeph said:


> They just seem to have very, very little pack drive, and to me, that just isn't a dog that is enjoyable to live with. But Jon really likes them, and if we ever end up with one from a reputable breeder, I have to be on board with it to. Is there ANYTHING positive about them?


Since you live with a Husky lover, have you ever asked him this question?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

He likes them because they looks like wolves, and is a wolf fanatic.


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

I wanted to get this dog before I got my husky.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> But my thing is I don't like to be pulled. That isn't enjoyable to me. I spend a lot of time teaching my dogs NOT to pull with the exception of conformation and schutzhund, and even in conf my dogs aren't really allowed to PULL, they're allowed to move out ahead of me. The line may be taut, but it's not tight.


I don't understand what this means. You don't want them to pull unless you want them to pull in certain situations (schutzhund/conformation). What's so wrong with not letting them pull except when you want to do mushing.

Besides, your SO can do this part. Urban mushing is part of the fun of having Huskies.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

iorek does not pull for the most part. he has a gentle leader easy walk harness, which is nicer than a collar but i don't think does much, and we also clicker trained him and used treats and he walks with a loose leash very nicely.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Xeph said:


> He likes them because they looks like wolves, and is a wolf fanatic.


Is he aware of what they're like to train, exercise and live with?

Not that I mean anything negative by "what they're like" -- I would just be concerned if someone were ready to get a dog without knowing these things, regardless of breed.

What if someone wanted to get a GSD because it looked like that dog in "I Am Legend"?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Sorry RBark, I wasn't clear. I mean I don't like to be pulled when I'm on something unstable, such as rollerblades or a bike. Afraid of falling because of my crappy ankles. I'm even unsure about protection work now because of my ankles giving out, and I don't want the helper or my dog to get hurt



> Is he aware of what they're like to train, exercise and live with?


I keep trying to tell him...he's only experienced 2.


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## KelliCZ (Aug 1, 2008)

Xeph said:


> Sorry RBark, I wasn't clear. I mean I don't like to be pulled when I'm on something unstable, such as rollerblades or a bike. Afraid of falling because of my crappy ankles. I'm even unsure about protection work now because of my ankles giving out, and I don't want the helper or my dog to get hurt
> 
> 
> I keep trying to tell him...he's only experienced 2.


 
Maybe you could foster for a Sibe rescue for him to get a real feel for the breed before permently getting one ?


Beaucerons are pretty cool dogs I rescued one years back - My Blaze was very shepherdy vs being more dobe like so I stuck with dobes as my breed of choice


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

JustTess said:


>


Looks like a dutch Shepard.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

KelliCZ said:


> Maybe you could foster for a Sibe rescue for him to get a real feel for the breed before permently getting one ?
> 
> 
> Beaucerons are pretty cool dogs I rescued one years back - My Blaze was very shepherdy vs being more dobe like so I stuck with dobes as my breed of choice


I second this motion. You said he's in Jersey? I know of several sibe rescues he could possibly get involved with. Who knows, maybe you'd be able to rescue one instead of buying. Save a life, and all.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Of course it is....I have the Labrador as a favor to my family. I don't even like him. He's obnoxiously happy, he's overly friendly, and he's hard to train because he really is just....dim. I'm not a Lab fan, but I will admit I've met some highly intelligent ones that are lovely to watch work. Buddy is not one of them (I don't even like his name). I work with him because all dogs need to be trained, but I don't find it enjoyable.
> 
> 
> But my honest question is, would they stop to pitch a fit about it, or shrug it off as another correction and fix the mistake.


I'm sensing a pattern here, Lab not good, Husky not good, Xeph I think you are entrenched in GSD land.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Xeph, your problem is (not that i really see it as a 'problem') you're a GSD person. Plain and simple. Bottom line. No other dog is like a GSD. I'm a GSD person too and have had GSD's all my life. Now for the first time I have a mixed bag of breeds in my home and it has been a challenge. I am so used to the obedience and ease of training of a GSD. 
Try looking at it from the other side - most people, so I've heard, aren't cut out for GSD's. They say they're too much for the average person. I dunno... 
I truly love and treasure my k9 companions but I do know after my current crew has gone to the big doggie park in the sky I'm back to nothing but GSD's. For me they are so much easier and predictable.

Jihad
and the pound puppy crew.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

¿Where does this "hard to train" thing come from? ¿Are people so stuck in their routine that adjusting for a different set of drives and values is out of the question?

I would also say do not get a Husky, please.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

reynosa_k9's said:


> Xeph, your problem is (not that i really see it as a 'problem') you're a GSD person. Plain and simple. Bottom line. No other dog is like a GSD. I'm a GSD person too and have had GSD's all my life. Now for the first time I have a mixed bag of breeds in my home and it has been a challenge. I am so used to the obedience and ease of training of a GSD.
> Try looking at it from the other side - most people, so I've heard, aren't cut out for GSD's. They say they're too much for the average person. I dunno...
> I truly love and treasure my k9 companions but I do know after my current crew has gone to the big doggie park in the sky I'm back to nothing but GSD's. For me they are so much easier and predictable.
> 
> ...


I do agree GSDs spoil a person, and many people would be over their heads with a shepherd.


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## GeorgeGlass (Jun 5, 2008)

I judge a dog by the content of its character and not the generalizations of its breed.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I don't think there's anything wrong with realizing a breed isn't one you don't want to live with. 

How many of you guys do competitive obedience- a sport Xeph really enjoys- or agility- a sport she's very competitive in- with your Sibes?


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Dogstar said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with realizing a breed isn't one you don't want to live with.
> 
> How many of you guys do competitive obedience- a sport Xeph really enjoys- or agility- a sport she's very competitive in- with your Sibes?


It wouldn't be hard to. Physical activity is highly self reinforcing in general. I know a lot of Huskies that would be good at it. Problem is, most people are stuck in one of two slippery slopes: "Huskies can't be trained" and "Huskies don't respond like X dog."

It's just a matter of learning what drives your dog and it all works out easily. Most people aren't willing to do that. Will they be Border Collies of Agility? Maybe not, but German Shepherds aren't like BC's either 

There's nothing wrong with feeling a breed is one you don't want to live with. But when all the reasons for it are far-fetched and gross exaggerations, you'll find people correcting it.

Instead of taking a risk by buying a puppy you won't like, how about spending the time looking at Husky rescues for one that is temperamentally similar to what you want in a dog? Like all dogs, Huskies are individuals, you might find one that's close to your ideal GSD. That way your SO will get what he wants, you will get what you want.


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## tuffycuddles (Sep 25, 2008)

get a GSD Husky mix!.....lol. (thats what i have.) 
problem solved lol.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Maybe not, but German Shepherds aren't like BC's either


No, but the drives are similar, if not the same. My dogs aren't bred to run, they're bred to trot all day long. But the drive to work with their human is high, and I like my velcro breeds.

And yes, if we ended up with the Husky, it would be Jon's dog....until he got deployed, and then it would become my dog.

I guess I just like the predictability of the GSD. I love several other breeds, would like to own a breed other than just GSDs....unfortunately Jon doesn't like a lot of the breeds I like either (like the Portuguese Water Dog).


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

Xeph said:


> No, but the drives are similar, if not the same. My dogs aren't bred to run, they're bred to trot all day long. But the drive to work with their human is high, and I like my velcro breeds.
> 
> And yes, if we ended up with the Husky, it would be Jon's dog....until he got deployed, and then it would become my dog.
> 
> I guess I just like the predictability of the GSD. I love several other breeds, would like to own a breed other than just GSDs....unfortunately Jon doesn't like a lot of the breeds I like either (like the Portuguese Water Dog).


Well perhaps instead of just getting a Husky for him, specially since it will end up being under your care anyhow, talk to eachother, do hard research on a dog site and try to find a dog you both agree on. There are so many breeds, I'm confident that you both can agree on something. Animalplanet.com/dogs is what I like to browse, but there are thousands of sites that give you the best and worst about a breed. Talk to your hubby and see if you both can agree on something else. 

EDIT - by the way, I believe there are a lot of breeds out there that look wolfish but are closely related to the GSD. Have a look around.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I've been meaning to ask that. Do you know of any breeds? I've been looking, but haven't really found anything other than the Saarloos Wolfhond (which seems to be an amped up version of a Husky...I'm sorry I ever mentioned it).


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

These are the breeds that I thought you and your hubby might both like, just by appearance. However, each, of course, have their diferent personalities which you will have to check into and see if you match with them. 

Now, not all of these look like wolves exactly, but they each kind of have that longish fur quility, also trying to keep the appearance of your GSD.

Akita - http://www.breederretriever.com/dog-breeds/89/akita.php
Alaskan Malamute - http://www.breederretriever.com/dog-breeds/90/alaskan-malamute.php
Belgian Tervuren - http://www.breederretriever.com/dog-breeds/82/belgian-tervuren.php
Keeshond - http://www.breederretriever.com/dog-breeds/163/keeshond.php
Norwegian Elkhound - http://www.breederretriever.com/dog-breeds/180/norwegian-elkhound.php
Samoyed - http://www.breederretriever.com/dog-breeds/204/samoyed.php
Tibetan Mastiff - http://www.breederretriever.com/dog-breeds/221/tibetan-mastiff.php

I'm going to do more research to see if I can find more, but here is what I have now. If you don't like any tell me and I'll find more. I just wanted to give you somewhere to start. Every dog should be enjoyed...


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Xeph said:


> He likes them because they looks like wolves, and is a wolf fanatic.


This is a pretty difficult breed to get a hold of, but there is an established breed in China called the Kunming Wolfdog, a sort of Chinese German shepherd that's mixed with a wolf. They tend to have the same temperament as the German shepherd, but an appearance similar to a wolf's. I had a neighbor who raised three of them and absolutely loved them. They were intelligent, reserved, obedient dogs, and used as police dogs, but not very common, especially in the US.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Like the Akita, but they're too prone to dog aggression...and again the cat killing thing.
He doesn't like the Keeshond...to small and spitzy.
Neither of us likes the Belgian Terv. They're LOVELY dogs, but the most stable Belgian is still too reactive for us.
Malamute...still with the digging and the independent nature.
I asked him about the Elkhound yesterday...too small, and again, spitz...doesn't like the curly tail.
Sammy...again, curly tail, and neither of us cares for breeds that only come in one color.
Definitely no to the Tibetan...neither of us is the right owner for one, and they're too lethargic for our liking.

We both like GSDs, but also want something OTHER than a GSD. We do both like Rottweilers...Dutchies too (they're hard to come across though).

By the way...he's not my husband.

......Yet xD


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

I would put the Malamute in the "no" category for you as well. They don't require the kind of exercise as the Husky (after 18 months), and are very attached to/willing to follow around their human. My Malamutes are silent unless Ridik gets the siren bug. Four so far in my life, and none have been diggers. Laziness has become their default mode and it needs to be weighed constantly against food intake. While much more velcro than Huskies, mine are not the kind I can depend on for instant response to commands. The Husky and the Yorkie-mutt are the ones I can count on in my pack. I like my sled dogs, and understand parts of their personalities are not desirable by some. Like me, they don't always respond to the offering of specific rewards. The fun in sled dogs is finding that motivation for the day, and it does change day to day. Well, for my gang anyway...


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yeah, and I don't like playing the "What's today's motivator!"

My buddy Dave has a Tervuren that's the same way...especially about food. And it can ALL change within minutes "Ooooo! LIVER!" Literally five minutes later "Yeah, not diggin' the liver anymore...what else you got?"

Not cool.

I'm not one that enjoys challenges like that. I like consistency.


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

Oops, sorry. Boyfriend it is then. ^.^

Well I'm mostly going off body types, so if you like Rotties, that's a whole different set of dogs I can give you. What about a doberman pinscher? They too, are used for police work but have a sleek build and intellegent eyes. 

Doberman Pinscher - http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/breeds/1100095/

I'll keep looking but tell me if you like other builds or certain looks. I'll remember to stay away from curly tails. ^.^

EDIT - Australian Shepherd - http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/breeds/1100020/
(Sorry, one last edit, lol) Beauceron - http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/breeds/1100026/


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Nay. I'm with Dobes all the time, and again, while lovely, not right for us.

I like the Portuguese Water Dog, but Jon doesn't (of course xD).


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Xeph said:


> I'm not one that enjoys challenges like that. I like consistency.


Ok!!!  Now it makes sense. I hate the monotony of consistency and thrive on difficulties/challenges. I'm officially not qualified to advise on any more breed experience (unless Saint Bernard works ) 

¿To each their own, eh?


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

Haha, I came across this breed, sounds perfect for your boyfriend, lol. But its really new, not even AKC recongnized yet, and probably really hard to come by. 

Czechoslovakian Wolfdog = http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/breeds/1100347/


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Ok!!! Now it makes sense. I hate the monotony of consistency and thrive on difficulties/challenges. I'm officially not qualified to advise on any more breed experience (unless Saint Bernard works )


*ROFL*

That's what it took huh? LOL!

I enjoy working with herders because they make the human look good  They're easy to work with, and while you still have to alter your methods for each dog, unless the dog is really extreme in some area of work ethic/temperament, their issues are very easy to work around.

I'm a person that is very easily frustrated, and to give me a dog that gives me a new challenge every five minutes is a set up for failure for everybody, because I don't enjoy working with that sort of dog. I get flustered, and so my attitude goes down the toilet, along with any ideas I may have. Heck, I'll admit I even get frustrated THINKING about dogs like that.

I'm not big into puzzles...never have been. I stink at them. So throw me a dog that's just one big 14 year long puzzle, and it's not going to end well xD


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

Xeph said:


> *ROFL*
> 
> That's what it took huh? LOL!
> 
> ...


Would you like me to find a link with herding dogs? Perhaps your boyfriend will like one or two.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Nah, I've run through all the herding dogs with him. He likes his GSDs in there and that's about it. I've been through them all myself, watching at agility trials, obedience, etc, trying to pick my next competition dog.


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## K9companions (Nov 13, 2008)

Xeph said:


> Nah, I've run through all the herding dogs with him. He likes his GSDs in there and that's about it. I've been through them all myself, watching at agility trials, obedience, etc, trying to pick my next competition dog.



Oh, alright; well I hope you both can agree on something. Goodluck.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Xeph said:


> That's what it took huh? LOL!


Internets are fun.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I appreciate all the suggestions K9, and I do have him considering the Beauce ;-)

And harrise, the internets can be all sorts of interesting.

Eeeeevil internets!
Internets r funz0rz!


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## SMoore (Nov 9, 2007)

What about a Shiba Inu?











They might be more your type of dog but keep in mind they would still need obedience training and i've heard that they too can have quite the prey drive if not properly trained. I've never owned one but only had some friends who had two. They were very well behaved and fun dogs to be around.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

Get a Husky from a Breeder, not from a rescue.. and your preocupations will go away.

They are not hard to handle.
Only for the first two years in which they spit energy in all ways, after that they settle down, however they CAN be trained, and with enough consistency (you must review what you teach him every day, in different ways so they don't get bored and assosiate a command with boredome) they will be very obedient.

And the cat issue... that's not true AT ALL, proper introduction and training will do.
You rather say they have a very high prey drive, but you can take that away from them with training.

As far as having them pull when you want... easy... make it a command after you teach the dog HEEL.
My 5 month old Puppy already responds to both commands and whenever i tell him to ''GO!'' he walks away from me and starts to run.

Go to ''the husky forum'' over at google, acces the site and join the forums.. alot of information there.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

What about some of the Livestock guardians...Like the Anatolian?

I didn't see them mentioned though I may have missed it..


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

No, I don't like the livestock Guardian dogs. And while I think they're cute, and get to see them frequently (Justin's mom also owns Shibas, and Austin will have one as a Juniors dog), they are not the type of dog I would like to own. Much too small. Jon thinks they're cute, but again too small


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Have you considered a Tamaskan? They do excel at obedience and agility from what I've read.

Found this old thread where trumpetjock made an excellent post about Tamaskans. It may help you out.

http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/28566-tamaskan.html


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Xeph, i know where you're coming from w/ alot of what you say....i have (as you know) Border Collies and trying to work w/ other breeds of dogs is harder....i'm sooooo used to the Border mentality.....but, i used to have Huskies when i was younger....they were great dogs...they learned quickly, they were reliable on recalls, they were great w/ cats and were't even raised w/ them (one found a kitty once that was sick and "brought it home"...meaning i brought it home and she mothered it), had personality up the wazoo....all in all they were great dogs to own when i did....i also have had GSD's, mutts, a Sheltie, an Irisher, and a few others....for me, there is only one breed of dog and that is the Border Collie...and believe you, me, they are not a dog for just anyone....they come w/ their own "baggage"....left to their own devices, they will totally remodel your house, yard, car, neighbourhood, you get the picture.....


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Melissa you are a GENIUS! I forgot all about the Tam!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Your compliments are unarguably excessive, but who am I to argue? 

Just kidding. I do think the Tamaskan would work in your situation though. Let us know how things turn out.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Just rescue a white GSD and don't let the boyfriend think he's anything but a sled dog. Or, here's a really pretty, young female GSD x Husky up for adoption in WI:

http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=5571415


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

My boyfriend knows GSDs. He's not stupid  And neither of us cares for solid whites.


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## HuskyLuv (May 16, 2008)

Any closer to making a decision yet?

Just to stick my neck out there, I'd have to agree I don't think a husky is for you. As my husband can very well attest to, it takes a special person to have a husky. I love 'em, they're my favorite breed but what can I say, I'm crazy and I love a challenge!


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## Azu (Nov 22, 2008)

HuskyLuv said:


> Any closer to making a decision yet?
> 
> Just to stick my neck out there, I'd have to agree I don't think a husky is for you. As my husband can very well attest to, it takes a special person to have a husky. I love 'em, they're my favorite breed but what can I say, I'm crazy and I love a challenge!


i completely agree with HuskyLuv, if it wasnt bc we both absolutely LOVED the breed we would have found it harder to keep our husky.

IMO on your arguments as our husky doesn't howl (at all, its weird actually), he has learned not to mess with cats or any smaller animals for that matter, his digging instincts do occur but they quickly end and he absolutely loves the presence of humans. On another note, he can choose to ignore commands at times. 

Its really all about the time and effort you and your bf are willing to invest on your husky as they require A LOT of it!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

We're going to go visit Marionhill Sibes, just so Jon can get a real feel for them. Maybe the breeder can talk him out of it xD

We both very much liked the Tamaskan though! Me for their temperament, him for their looks


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Hey Xeph if that doesn't work out check out this dog.
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12552069

and it is at one of our favorite places. LOL


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You know Inga, I went over there just a few minutes ago to see what they had, but they were closed...I forgot the hours have changed. I'm going to try and go visit tomorrow though 

I'm hoping things have gotten better there...


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## WileyBlaze (Dec 18, 2008)

Hi, I'm new here and I just seen this thread.

I have three Sibes and three cats. They all get along fine. I rescued all three Sibes and cats.

If you really want a Sibe and want to take the time to care for them properly I would suggest finding an older dog that is good with cats. When I got mine I just asked the rescue if the dog was good with other dogs and cats. 

I personally love the way they talk to you!

Now mine get run everyday so they are to tired to dig (put in a sandbox). They do require time but what dog doesn't?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I'm just not one for "Jokester" dogs is all  I prefer breeds that are much more serious. Even at a year old, Ranger dog was a very, VERY serious dog. I call him the "Bagheera" of German Shepherds. He's a no nonsense kind of guy.

Justin is more laid back, but gets very serious when we're showing. Strauss can be a bit of a goof, but he's certainly more serious than any Siberian I've ever met...especially when we're working.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Hm, good thing you didn't get into Rotties then Xeph. Never a dull moment with them around and if they were human they would have been court jesters. I am thinking about naming my next male Jerry Seinfeld. As far as the BAHS I am hopeful but keep hearing the horror stories so not holding my breath.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Oh the Tamaskan... did I spell that right?

is GORGEOUS!

Good luck with whatever you choose. My parents have a half husky, the other half is gsd/lab, and she does have husky traits, but they are working with her to embrace those lol. She's a lot of fun and very smart, but if a husky isn't for you, than keep looking!


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## HuskyLuv (May 16, 2008)

If you're looking for a dog that will be serious all the time or most of the time, the husky is not right for you.

Personally, I couldn't have a no nonsense dog ever since to me that would be extremely boring. My husky is a rescue, we got him from a shelter with absolutely no background history (he was picked up as a stray). Brought him home and he does wonderfully with the family cats (as long as they don't run from him) and he even does great with our two guinea pigs.

When we work on training he is very focused but I will lose his attention if we train for more than 10-15 minutes at a time. So we train for 10-15 minutes, take and break and run around/play for 5-10 minutes and then continue with another 10-15 minutes of training. Works out great in getting him both mentally and physically stimulated all in the same session.

And as hard as it may be for you to believe this, but they can be very focused and willing to do what you ask. 99% of the time I ask mine to do something indoors he does it with gusto. That percentage goes down when we're outdoors and there are all sorts of distractions around but I have not spent as much time training as I could. So I am to blame for that, not the husky.

I totally agree with everything that RBark has said thus far. I also think you have already made up your mind that you don't like or want a husky and you never will unless you open yourself up to the possibility that they're not as bad as you make them out to be...and I do mean that in the most respectful way possible despite how it may sound. If I listened solely to the arguments you put forth Xeph, I don't think I'd get a husky either. 

I was bitten by a cat when I was a little girl. That made me afraid of them then, but I don't forever walk around fearful of cats and refusing to get one because "cats bite". Same goes for everything else, including huskies. Either way, I really really don't think you should get a sibe unless both of you really want one. And since only one of you is even remotely on board, I think it's a really bad idea for both you and the dog. Just my thoughts.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Indeed. It seems all the owners on this board like challenges and puzzles and jokesters...I'm the kind of person that doesn't like ANY of those things. They're very frustrating, and I can only solve the gigantic kiddy piece puzzles...the little ones frustrate me because I can't figure out where everything goes.

I like, and demand predictability. I can't stand when things are in disarray in the sense of schedules (like now, since some idiot just wrecked my car).


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I can't imagine what it would be like to have a dog that was this serious...just as you can't imagine what it would be like to have a dog that wasn't. I keep trying to picture you training my Beagles and how frustrating a task it would be. I don't expect as much from my dogs as you expect from yours, and I'm just not as serious about dog training as you are. 

Tell how the visit to the Sibe breeder goes!

http://tamaskan-dog.com/index2.htm


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## Wynpyp (Sep 19, 2008)

Xeph... are your Shepherds that serious? I am truely curious cause mine haven't been. Not that they don't have their serious moments but they have also been very goofy and whatnot. Maybe it's just been because all of mine have been rescues but I don't know for sure. In the future (after the kids are grown), my hubby and I want to get another pure bred GSD but from a breeder. If mine haven't been "normal", I don't know what I would do with one that was no nonsense all the time


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

They are indeed. Strauss is probably the LEAST serious which can make him seem like an extreme goof, but he knows the difference between work and play.

Ranger loves to play bally, but he's even serious about that! He sits, I throw the stick/ball, he runs to get it, and he trots back in a manner befitting of a king. He drops it, I throw again, lather rinse repeat. Ranger by far is the most serious Shepherd I've ever met or worked with...he's just that way...and I've always liked that.

It was hard going from Ranger to Strauss, who is a dog that rev's more easily and is extremely drivey. Ranger was actually a narc dog, so his hunt drive was tremendous, but his prey and defense drives were low, and he was a bit more nervy than Strauss is.

Justin does not play fetch. Too dignified. He's VERY happy to parade around with his special squeaky, but he does not fetch, and he does not tug. He only carries things.

My dogs are VERY happy when they're working, but their demeanor totally changes between work and play.

Every now and then Ranger will think you're not looking, and he'll randomly throw himself down and roll all over the ground. Strauss has this thing for rubbing his face against carpeting, and batting his chew toys around. When he chases his frisbee, he'll "kill it" a bit, but that's about it. Even when he plays tug, tug isn't so much about fun, but about releasing frustration and energy during agilty. Tuggy is a work toy, not a play toy.

Part of it is personality of the dog (Ranger is all business all the time, that's just his way), part of it is training (I can't have a dog goofing off in the show ring, though they do have their silly time in the yard).

I certainly have FUN with my dogs, but when we're working, we're working, not playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLpQp5yC1p8 <--Here's Twitchy (Strauss) showing off his goofy side, playing with a Shepherd bitch out at club last winter. And yes, he is eating snow as he runs 

Ranger won't run with other dogs, and Justin doesn't care to either.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Xeph said:


> Indeed. It seems all the owners on this board like challenges and puzzles and jokesters...I'm the kind of person that doesn't like ANY of those things.


Well i cannot speak for *all the owners* here.

One thing i do like is a dog,not a robot.


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## iwantmypup (Jan 6, 2007)

So we have established that Huskies are a no...


Why not just stick with GSDs?


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

I agree Ali,if i didnt know GSD better (which i do,my Nan bred them for many years) what Xeph has said makes them sound very easy and laid back??,not the GSD i knew.

Anyway all of my dogs have been exactly what Xeph doesnt like,a challenge a puzzle and a joke at times,thats what i thought dog ownership was all about.....sorry but thats just another thing that puts me off all this show BS,the dogs are not dogs they are like ornaments.

Granted my dogs are not huskeys but ive followed this thread closely and Xeph you seem to dislike the breed so much (and countless others for that matter) that i really dont see the point in posting at all,as your mind was made up from the get go.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

My dogs are still dogs, but I won't lie, I do like something that is more "pushbutton". That's just my own personality. I'm a fun person and not terribly serious myself, but because I'm easily frustrated, I work and live with a breed that is much easier to train and I don't have to play guessing games to keep the dog interested in the work.

That's just me 

Inga's met Strauss, and she could surely attest that he's the twitchy bouncy one of my boys xD

My GSDs are CERTAINLY not easy and laid back, they're go go go (well, not Ranger, he's an old man xD). They like to work, and in the summer we bike jog 8-10 miles. The GSD is bred to be a more serious dog. They need to be that way to do the work they do. Strauss can go tracking, do agility, and do obedience all within a few minutes of each other, and he enjoys it, and I enjoy training in it. I enjoy it more now that he wants to work with me instead of against me...I was pretty sure I was going to quit agility for awhile because it wasn't fun. He didn't need me to play the game, he could play on his own...not cool.

I went to him from Ranger, mister "stick with it!" and "I'm right here waiting for you!"

I like the breed enough to admire those who own them, and to admire their intelligence and physical beauty. Their personalities just aren't suited to mine.

By the way Mr. Pooch, don't shove that "dogs aren't dogs, they're ornaments" crap my way. I LOVE working my dogs in sports, but they are pets first, and they DO have fun, and 90% of the time they're "Just dogs". But when it's work time, it's work time, that's why it's called work. Shepherds like to work, it's what they're for. They like to solve puzzles and find things, but I don't have to be creative in how I hide it. "Ok, he's figured out that I've hidden it in this room, so this time I'll hide it in a different room." I can handle that.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

LOL,well i think Jon should consider just getting another strauss,if the reciepe works,stick with it 

SBT are like babies for life,if i'd known that then i'd have had a mastiff from he start,sometimes though xeph you should broaden your limit and give yourself a challenge....who knows you might enjoy it???


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

One thing I know about myself Mr Pooch, is that I've never enjoyed challenges. I may get through them, but there's nothing ENJOYABLE about it.

I got through my struggle of Strauss biting me during agility out of frustration, but there was nothing enjoyable about that journey. There were lots of bruises, leash burns, some blood, and gallons of tears. There were some days when I took him home and I was SO ANGRY at him for being such a jerk, I wondered why I wanted such a dog in the first place. I wouldn't trade him for the world, but I felt some days that I wanted to sell him because he'd been so terrible.

I don't deal with frustration well. I end up getting so angry that I shut down myself, and am absolutely useless in the training.

Even now, after all the progress we've made, in order to keep my dog from screaming while another dog runs, I have to keep a tug toy in his mouth, and it's exhausting. He's got a good outlet, and I praise him for using it, but lots of the time it's not fun, and I wish I had one of the Border Collies that just laid on the ground and watched, and waited it's turn.

Strauss still can't control his drive in the manner of being vocal. He CAN at least lay quietly and watch me until I send him now. Big step, but we've still not qualified because he can't settle himself, and he flattens out and knocks bars.

I did find this nice little girl on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Yqdh5ueP2M


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

No offence to you or any other lady xeph but sometimes i really feel dogs listen to the male tone much better.

You ladies let emotion get the better of you,me i stand for no BS and my dogs know this.

One of my dogs is DA,just today he lunged for another Pit,i lifted that MF 5 feet off the ground and held him there for a few seconds,not everyones method i know but thats me.

I realise your in the show world and maybe my *ornament* comment was a bit off but im almost military with my dogs the few times i *LET* them get out of hand is when another owner is being ignorant with either the offleash scenario or approaching without asking me,in those circumstances i let the dogs speak for themselves.........see thats a challenge,granted not a show ring one but none the less a challenge to me.


The offleash situation has only resulted in Aslan being dominant once,recall is good with him,Blake...impossible,he would kill or be killed.
The approaching without asking normally results in people just walking off but the one time it didnt Aslan had some drunk fool pinned to a tree....i didnt know his teeth could be shown through all that lip he has going on.


Back to the OP,a huskey or any huskey looking breed aint for you...just get another GSD as im sure you know countless reputable breeders.

Goodluck!!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> No offence to you or any other lady xeph but sometimes i really feel dogs listen to the male tone much better.


Depends. I have a deeper voice, and I can pull of "WRATH OF GOD!!!!!!" quite well



> You ladies let emotion get the better of you,me i stand for no BS and my dogs know this.


Nor do I, that doesn't mean the dog won't still choose to blow you off that day. They're like teenagers in that regard. You can use your body language to show what the consequences could or will be, but they can still choose not to follow your commands.



> One of my dogs is DA,just today he lunged for another Pit,i lifted that MF 5 feet off the ground and held him there for a few seconds,not everyones method i know but thats me.


I most certainly wouldn't do that to one of my dogs. I'd say that's emotion getting the better of someone. 

Ranger may be old, but he's still sharp, and so are his teeth, and he wouldn't stand for that treatment. Strauss either. Justin....Justin would collapse in a heap. He can't stand people being mad at him, and throws calming signals every which way.

The Tamaskan seemed promising, so we're investigating more *shrugs*


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Xeph said:


> I most certainly wouldn't do that to one of my dogs. I'd say that's emotion getting the better of someone.
> 
> Ranger may be old, but he's still sharp, and so are his teeth, and he wouldn't stand for that treatment.


Xeph last time blake was DA he had a cockapoo's face in his jaws,im taking no chances,its either hold him up there or serious dog fight/dogs face badly torn.

I couldnt care less if he likes it,tolerates it,doesnt wana tolerate it...whatever, im doing it untill his training proves to me he can do otherwise.

Your challengeomiter is very low.haha

My dogs dont dictate me or put the cards on the table,i do that.

Blakes an extremly intelligent dog,loves agility(one of the things im using to deter his DA) has an exelent recall when *alone* and is an all round good dog.

I very much dislike the fact he is DA but,do i dislike the fact he is a challenge.....hell no.


And if one of my dogs bit me then well,they wouldnt be biting anything else for a longtime,i just would not tolerate it (i wouldnt hit them but i'd make damm sure they know human skin was not to touched with thier teeth!!)


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Your challengeomiter is very low.haha


Yes, it is, which I have stated several times. I don't find challenges fun.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Your the show gal,i guess the ball is in your court.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I did join a Tamaskan forum that has all the main breeders on it, so I'm getting more info on that breed


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## HuskyLuv (May 16, 2008)

From what I've read so far on Tamaskans how are they any different from huskies in all their traits? They sound exactly the same to me which makes me wonder why you're even considering them. 

And I absolutely love puzzles, the smaller and more numerous the pieces the better! LOL  Gotta keep things fun and interesting, I hate it when I can finish a puzzle in a day...no fun!

Best advice I have after all this is stick with GSD's or BC's since apparently they are not challenging dogs?  And for what it's worth, Strauss doesn't sound much different from a husky. *shrugs*


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## MustLuvMutts (Nov 17, 2008)

I don't have a husky, but I've always wanted one. As was mentioned in the first post in the thread and as I've read in many places, are huskies really _*that*_ bad with cats? I'm a cat person and I've got a kitten that is going to be around for a long time. Should I just forget about getting a husky while I have cats? I've heard they generally don't like cats, but "cat killers?" Does anyone here have a husky that gets along with cats? If you train the dog and have it around cats since it was a puppy, will it behave better towards them?


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## HuskyLuv (May 16, 2008)

How they do with cats will depend on the individual, but a lot of huskies do get along just fine with cats. Mine for example is very good with the 4 cats, two guinea pigs and parrot in the house provided they don't run from him. I think that raising them with cats is even better in ensuring they will get along and/or at least peacefully coexist.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Mr Pooch said:


> One of my dogs is DA,just today he lunged for another Pit,i lifted that MF 5 feet off the ground and held him there for a few seconds,not everyones method i know but thats me.


Hm. Soo... dog is DA and dog experiences serious fear, pain and trauma when dogs come around. That'll learn him!


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

So when an offleash dog comes running straight at me i'll take the chance of a serious dog fight

Lets put it this way he was in less pain than he would have been had he fought the dog,i just did what i knew would prevent that,lift him up.

The other owner got his dog and in a few seconds i was back on my way,as for the serious pain and trauma,you dont know my dog so dont come to assumptions!


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Mr Pooch said:


> Xeph last time blake was DA he had a cockapoo's face in his jaws,im taking no chances,its either hold him up there or serious dog fight/dogs face badly torn.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Or you could muzzle your known DA dog and/or only take him places where he won't be endangering the generally ignorant public and their dogs.




Mr Pooch said:


> I realise your in the show world and maybe my *ornament* comment was a bit off but im almost military with my dogs the few times i *LET* them get out of hand is when another owner is being ignorant with either the offleash scenario or approaching without asking me,in those circumstances i let the dogs speak for themselves.........see thats a challenge,granted not a show ring one but none the less a challenge to me.


That's dangerous, and scary.




Mr Pooch said:


> No offence to you or any other lady xeph but sometimes i really feel dogs listen to the male tone much better.
> 
> You ladies let emotion get the better of you,me i stand for no BS and my dogs know this.


I work with dogs all day and haven't found any that have had a problem listening to me, including dogs who are not only DA, but aggressive towards people and I don't even so much as raise my voice. No alpha rolling, no choke chains, no prongs, no collar pops and definitely no hanging dogs by their collars. I agree with Xeph that someone thinking they have to hang a dog for even a few seconds sounds like someone who has lost control. I've known plenty of owners (men and women) who had no trouble getting rough or loud with their dogs, but who still had trouble getting their dogs to listen to them, not to mention managing their dogs safely.



Mr Pooch said:


> The other owner got his dog and in a few seconds i was back on my way,as for the serious pain and trauma,you dont know my dog so dont come to assumptions!


I don't have to know your dogs to know that dogs are not meant to be suspended from their necks like that. Dogs often get seriously injured by collar pops alone. Yes, I know many dogs will swing from things and tug like crazy, and do other amazing things, but that is under their own power.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Blake has a muzzle,he tore the skin off his chin by trying to remove it so i now keep him on leash at all times for his own and other dogs saftey.









It may sound dangerous and scary but its not about control of MY dogs,i have let my dogs fight back when the same person let his dog run offleash to mine 3 times.
3rd time i let them fight back instead of just holding them whilst they were being attacked,not what i wanted to do but its either that or just stand there holding my dogs whilst they are bitten at.

The female voice comment i guess is directed towards people i have either met or know,they dont command thier dogs with enough authority in thier voice for a result and thats from seeing it 1st hand.

Of course not all women are the same.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Mr Pooch said:


> Blake has a muzzle,he tore the skin off his chin by trying to remove it so i now keep him on leash at all times for his own and other dogs saftey.


Desensitization and counter conditioning goes a long way: http://abrionline.org

There's a great video if you follow that link of Jean Donaldson doing just that with a dog and a Gentle Leader.




Mr Pooch said:


> It may sound dangerous and scary but its not about control of MY dogs,i have let my dogs fight back when the same person let his dog run offleash to mine 3 times.
> 3rd time i let them fight back instead of just holding them whilst they were being attacked,not what i wanted to do but its either that or just stand there holding my dogs whilst they are bitten at.


...or, knowing your dog is DA and there are ignorant owners about, you could go where people won't let their dogs run up on yours. Just allowing the dogs to continue being challenged and allowing them to fight back isn't going to help with the DA issue.




Mr Pooch said:


> The female voice comment i guess is directed towards people i have either met or know,they dont command thier dogs with enough authority in thier voice for a result and thats from seeing it 1st hand.
> 
> Of course not all women are the same.


I've never heard the trainers command the critters with authority at SeaWorld, so I don't believe it's necessary with the dogs I work with.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Desensitizing and counter conditioning did nothing compared to a "choke" chain and four days of work (ok, obviously there was some sort of conditioning going on). Sometimes time and safety take priority over the dog not experiencing an aversive, and my dogs don't cower and react to me with fear. This, to me, is dependent upon the owner-dog relationship. 



> ...you could go where people won't let their dogs run up on yours.


This is impossible to predict. There is no map showing areas where you will not encounter loose or aggressive dogs. Maybe in your area it's possible, but I had to take any measure needed to stop DA in my Saint and it needed to happen yesterday. Now I must stop lest some forum searcher finds my post and tries aversive training...


ETA: The video you mention is basically what I did except with a slip chain, not a gentle leader. So, now I don't know what to call my approach. She mentions -R, but I hate getting caught up in terms regular folks need definitions on.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

The encounters are always on the way to areas where my dogs are offleash and secure(away from other dogs),unfortunetly i cannot control who walks on pathways etc.

Its funny Blake was well socialized as a pup,his DA came outta nowhere,he is a challenge,as obviously nobody wants a dog that dislikes other dogs.
His my boy though (a real pain in the ass at times) and i guess i'll just deal with his issues.

Thanks for the link PP.

(i feel i will slaugtered now for my *female* remark,i forget that the board is made up mostly of women!!)


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Mr Pooch said:


> (i feel i will slaugtered now for my *female* remark,i forget that the board is made up mostly of women!!)


HA!!! No kidding. I have many thread ideas that would not go over well on this board...


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

From what all the Tam people are telling me, they aren't really escape artists like Huskies, and their prey drive isn't as extreme as a GSD or Husky.

And I'd never own a Border Collie by the way. I like them, and I like working them, but living with one isn't for me.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I think many of us DO have FAVORITE breeds and knowing what it is in a dog breed that we love is half the battle. Avoiding the characteristics we cannot live with is the other half. I think it is a wise person that does their homework. I personally think that a husky is a beautiful dog but I know that they are not the breed for me. Same with most other breeds. I love to see them doing what they are bred to do or see them in homes where they are loved and appreciated. Just don't wish to own one. 
Pooch you made me chuckle when talking about the "womens voice" thing. I would have to say that as a breed Rotties tend to be the "make me" type anyway but when mama puts on her "I am very serious" voice, they know I have MADE them.  You are right about many women and some men just do not speak in an authoritative manner. All of my old dogs were taught in German and I found they listened better. It is a guttural language and sounds commanding. My boys now have learned English commands because they are around some people that just cannot handle learning a few German commands. (won't get into that  ) 
I myself enjoy a challenge usually but I have to say that I have been tempted to test drive a breed that is more about taking orders instead of questioning them. LOL
Maybe a Dobe?


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

What I got from this thread was surprise that so many breeds would be disregarded because they have a curly tail.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Oh Inga, come to some of our agility trials! The Dobermans have the most RANDOM make me moment! Usually involving the table...."I don't want to sit/lie down!! Why should I? You can't touch me right now, so NERTS TO YOU!!!"

I too speak in German. It is as Inga says, much more guttural, and I also find it to be quite clipped in some areas. I can't drag out "Platz!" like I can "Down!" It would sounds ridiculous! Plaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatz! ROFL!

Strauss has some Huskyish traits, and I won't lie, I don't care for them. Never the less, I'll be honest and say I'd trust him off leash in an open area before I'd trust a Husky off leash in one.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Mr Pooch said:


> The female voice comment i guess is directed towards people i have either met or know,they dont command thier dogs with enough authority in thier voice for a result and thats from seeing it 1st hand.
> 
> Of course not all women are the same.





Inga said:


> Pooch you made me chuckle when talking about the "womens voice" thing. I would have to say that as a breed Rotties tend to be the "make me" type anyway but when mama puts on her "I am very serious" voice, they know I have MADE them.  You are right about many women and some men just do not speak in an authoritative manner. All of my old dogs were taught in German and I found they listened better. It is a guttural language and sounds commanding.





Xeph said:


> I too speak in German. It is as Inga says, much more guttural, and I also find it to be quite clipped in some areas. I can't drag out "Platz!" like I can "Down!" It would sounds ridiculous! Plaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatz! ROFL!


It's all a matter of conditioning. I speak to my dogs in a soft voice because...well my voice is soft and that's just they way it is. But I enforce my cues each and every time, so they are conditioned to know that I mean it.

Dogs don't speak English, German, etc...the only reason they respond better to one than the other is because that is what you have taught them. Most people don't realize it, but when they give a cue they tend to say it in a normal voice first, then if it is ignored, repeat it in a more "commanding" tone and reinforce it. The dog learns it's the guttural cue that comes with follow-up. 

Yeah, tt has been shown that fast repetitions tend to speed down up, long slow notes slow them down, and a single fast note is most effective at getting an immediate stop. But the words you use and whether you are guttural? IMO that is just conditioning.


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

Also w/ the german thing - I think english house-hold dogs have an easier time w/ german commands in part because they never hear the german commands used in other contexts, or by people who do not enforce, etc.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Bearjing said:


> Also w/ the german thing - I think english house-hold dogs have an easier time w/ german commands in part because they never hear the german commands used in other contexts, or by people who do not enforce, etc.


Another good point -- less chance of accidental desensitization/extinction.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Shaina said:


> It's all a matter of conditioning. I speak to my dogs in a soft voice because...well my voice is soft and that's just they way it is. But I enforce my cues each and every time, so they are conditioned to know that I mean it.
> 
> Dogs don't speak English, German, etc...the only reason they respond better to one than the other is because that is what you have taught them. Most people don't realize it, but when they give a cue they tend to say it in a normal voice first, then if it is ignored, repeat it in a more "commanding" tone and reinforce it. The dog learns it's the guttural cue that comes with follow-up.
> 
> Yeah, tt has been shown that fast repetitions tend to speed down up, long slow notes slow them down, and a single fast note is most effective at getting an immediate stop. But the words you use and whether you are guttural? IMO that is just conditioning.


Maybe so shaina, but in my case anyway, my dogs all understood English as well. Like I said, I hang around people that are not smart enough to learn a few German commands so they had to know both. (says a lot for me huh?) My boys only know English now. They never listen to me so who knows. LOL
In my experience the dogs I worked in German (about 7 of them) seemed to respond to the commands quicker then English commands. this was of course at first. Once they knew the command in either language they responded (when convenient, they are Rotties after all.  )


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## amy-peng (Sep 28, 2007)

hey friend. one new friend joined in my big family yesterday! a 6 months husky! he is handsome, i am so excited to have a nice husky to be my own dog!!!!!! u know , i am looking forward to have a dog for a long time!!!but he ran everywhere all day when he is in my house.he bite all things in my houses, and he peed on my bed... never stops... how to train? i would feel that i love him much more if he is quiet down. but maybe the main reason is that he is a boy! boy loves play!!!!!

any suggestion for trainning the dog?????


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Yes, but I watch them work and they're working more with each other than the musher. The musher may give commands, but they're few and far in between....the dogs are bred and trained to be independent and to work things out for themselves...and they do. And if they follow "Gee" and "haw" at all, it just seems to me it's more because they're in harness than a real willingness to do it.


You need to come up to my country and meet a few mushers, maybe go to a few races. I can tell you from a huge amount of experience that this just isn't the case. They are working as a team with the musher more than most can imagine. 

I'll be back to this thread, 8 am final, last of the semester!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

trumpetjock said:


> You need to come up to my country and meet a few mushers, maybe go to a few races. I can tell you from a huge amount of experience that this just isn't the case. They are working as a team with the musher more than most can imagine.
> 
> I'll be back to this thread, 8 am final, last of the semester!


Trumpet
You are 100% right it is a full team effort. Xeph you are going to have to go north for a visit.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Alright, so back from a nicely bombed final. 

So, first off, lets just talk the basic commands that they have to use. It's not just "Gee" and "Haw" as was implied. Here's a short list of ones that are absolutely necessary.

Hike, or Let's Go! -- RUN!
Gee -- Right
Gee over -- just a little bit right
Haw -- Left
Haw over -- just a little bit left
Easy -- Slow down
Woah -- Stop (from a dead run at 35 mph when chasing another sled sometimes)
On by -- Basically advanced "Leave it". Your pack of extremely high prey drive dogs sees a deer, or say... a moose carcass on the side of the trail? Yeah, if they were so independant I doubt on by would work.
Come Gee or Come Haw -- Turn the sled 180 degrees in the direction chosen
Line out -- walk slowly out to the end of the line until there is tension.

And these are just the basic commands. Sounds a whole lot like obedience, doesn't it?

Now, you know all about drives Xeph. There is no pull drive. Period. No dog was born in the history of the world that had some innate drive to pull a sled. The is exploitation of other drives. In fact, very similar ones to GSD's. In it's most basic form, it's the drive to get food; hunting, or simply following a trail. Your own dog will do it. Bring him out to a wooded area after a decent amount of snow. Let him to the end of the leash and just see where he goes. Even a completely untrained dog most likely will NOT go forging off the beaten path (unless he's following his nose to something amazing). 

Sled dogs do not come pre-programmed to just pull and pull. It's just another form of obedience training. Just like our standard obedience has come a long way from the dark ages of punishment training, the same has happened with sled trainers. Modern mushers find what motivates their dogs (again, the vast majority of even extremely well bred sleds are not motivated simply to just pull) to perfect their pulling. Just like modern trainers find what motivates their dogs to do a perfect sit. Or a perfect guard and bark. Or a retrieve. A fast pole weave.

If you look at any high end performing dog, it looks like the handler isn't even doing anything... here, I can prove it.

Brix Eichenluft's HGH. Could you even point out who the handler IS if you weren't a GSD person? Is it the guy walking in front of the sheep? He isn't doing anything... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ifJDNFLklo

World championship Agility. The handler isn't doing anything except saying Gee and Haw... errrr I mean telling the dog where to go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxzJNCg4sZc&feature=related

Basko von Haus Heldmann doing guard and bark in the beginning and more later. His handler doesn't seemed too terribly involved. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkbNZzgNQlA

Field trial championships in Italy, 2006. Again, the handler has minimal input. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBT1lcwZpEY&feature=related

The whole point of all these links is that no matter what venue the dog is working in, it SEEMS like it's just doing it all by itself. 


Oooook.... so. Now that I've kind of covered a single point, lets move on to the whole "no pack drive" thing. Here's a question for you? What breeds would you say are most prone to separation anxiety (not the clinical problem, but the psychological one)? Yeah, huskies are damn near on the top of that list. A lot of the reputation they get for being "destructive" comes from that fact. Huskies become VERY bonded with their people. Granted, this is difficult for working huskies because they are oft times in kennels that have 50ish dogs, but for the pet lifestyle, they become extremely attached. They hate hate hate being alone.


Digging? Yes... they do dig. But as with anything, it can be trained. The best way is to give them an acceptable place to dig so they can get rid of the urge. Sort of like giving acceptable chew toys so a dog doesn't chew on your chair leg.


Howling, yup! Is it the only thing they do? lord no. From my experience they don't tend to be over the top vocal, but they have an impressive range of choices for vocalization. Grunts, howls, barks, yips, screams, and most can sound like they are "talking".

The independence you were talking about does exist, and yes it was bred for. I am not sure, however, that you understand what exactly has been selected for. They are not selected to go out in the snow and pick the right trail for the musher. They are not selected to be brute headed and not listen to commands. The independence that is actually bred for is very simple: if they feel they are in danger, they will NOT take that course of action. It was bred into them for cases like where a musher may have called the trail over a lake that wasn't completely frozen solid yet. If the dog didn't have this independence, they would very well have killed the whole team. Does this make them a bit harder to train than a gsd? Yes. Does this make it impossible or even all that difficult? Not at all. The huskies that you handled were probably trained by people who had this same mindset of "oh they're just stubborn and untrainable" therefore they DIDN'T train them how they were supposed to. It happens ALL the time. 

Remember, these dogs weren't bred the work independently of their handler, like elkhounds, or any other hound for that matter. They were bred to be in close proximity for weeks at a time with their handler, listening to their every word.




Ok yeah.... I didn't mean to write a novel. All this being said, I don't own a husky, nor do I want to. I spend ALOT of time around mushers and husky pet owners though. They are incredible dogs that alot of times end up in a vicious cycle of "huskys are stubborn, we can't train him", so they don't get trained and they perpetuate the myth. 

You are an experienced dog owner and handler, a husky will pose no problem to you whatsoever. You don't have to love them (or even like them), but make your judgment based on actual knowledge instead of the myths that are perpetuated by people who don't know any better.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Trumpetjock, I was hoping you'd chime in on this thread. Xeph has been looking closely at a Tamaskan instead of a Sibe, and you seem to know the most about them on this board.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)




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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Thanks for the constructive post harrise.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

It's what I do.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You don't have to like my choices or how I feel about the breed, but if you're going to post at all, make it something useful.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't get the qualifying post memo. Plus, I thought Huskies were done in your eyes.


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

harrise said:


> Sorry, I didn't get the qualifying post memo. Plus, I thought Huskies were done in your eyes.


Shame on you now go snow boarding!


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

harrise said:


>





harrise said:


> Sorry, I didn't get the qualifying post memo. Plus, I thought Huskies were done in your eyes.


Oddly enough my beating a dead horse with a different stick actually accomplished something. Following it, we had a good discussion via PM about the reality of huskies (I hope you don't mind me disclosing that, Xeph), ending with her sounding cautiously optimistic. Sometimes saying things in a better way, and with a better tone actually does make the horse deaderer.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

No, it's fine trumpetjock 

And I've said MANY times in this thread that we're going to visit a sibe breeder (no intention to purchase, it is an educational visit...for BOTH of us). I might change my mind, I might not...but I could at least perhaps have a GOOD experience with the breed for a change.

There is so much conflicting information, I have no idea who to believe. And I don't deny that I made some generalizations...some that may have seemed exaggerated...but Huskies were on my list way way WAY before I got Strauss....and I kept hearing the same things from breeders (the good ones, not the BYB ones). Untrustworthy with cats, runners, diggers, extremely independent. Not a one of them mentioned how closely they bond with their owners.


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## HuskyLuv (May 16, 2008)

I think you'll find good breeders exaggerating the negative aspects of the breed to keep them from falling into the wrong hands. BYB's will generally tell you how wonderful they are to sell you a pup. When I talk to people in person who ask about the breed after saying they would love to have such a 'pretty dog' I tell them all the negative aspects I can think of first since most people are not suited for a sibe.  Only when said person is okay with those aspects then I will delve into their numerous positive traits.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Bearjing said:


> Also w/ the german thing - I think english house-hold dogs have an easier time w/ german commands in part because they never hear the german commands used in other contexts, or by people who do not enforce, etc.


I have been thinking of teaching my guys commands in another language for this reason. Especially living here, commands are given by certain people mad and never enforced . . so my dogs are becoming desensitized to the commands. Lloyd ignored a come command from me yesterday . . . I went and got him and made him come . . but man that made me mad. That is such an important command and here they all tell the dogs to "come on" all the freaken time. I have asked them repeatedly to use "lets go" instead (which is my dogs command for follow me).


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

I feel there are too many of these dogs in the hands of people who don't truly bond with them. After joining in a couple dozen posts later I felt no need to recommend a breed that might backfire. I would only expect the same antagonism if I voiced GSD prejudices. 

And I like watching my post counter. Pfft.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

No, you would receive calm explanation, which I have done time and again for the last 6 years with my GSDs. And if that doesn't work, I just let it go, because nothing will change their minds.


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

> The independence that is actually bred for is very simple: if they feel they are in danger, they will NOT take that course of action. It was bred into them for cases like where a musher may have called the trail over a lake that wasn't completely frozen solid yet.


So that's why Ilya hates wet soggy grass. He has the look of sheer fright and complete disbelief when I tell him to go potty after a rainstorm on the lawn.

You know, even though I've noticed Ilya has been the most independent minded dog I've owned, he will listen and obey commands out of respect. He's also the first dog I have a hunch who is actually "laughing" at some of the pranks he pulls.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

He and Strauss should run together...I bet they'd find each other to be hilarious xD


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## amy-peng (Sep 28, 2007)

Yeah, husky is horrible.

yeah, husky is horrible . i have one.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Having read thru all of this *sigh* I have only this comment:

Get a smaller, breed standard black/tan sable GSD and run with that. Atka is bery wolf looking... shorter back, shorter tail and sharter ears and she would pass for a wolf.. 

But, here is the REAL reason I would stick with what you know in this instance.. ANYTHING else you get will constantly be compared to your GSD's and will play second fiddle. This does not mean the dog won't be trained or loved, but with as strong a like as you have for the GSD, I think you will be making a mistake getting a husky. Any Husky. 

When I was going to get a dog 2 years ago I was initially going to get a Border Collie. they are great dogs. However, in discussing the breed with people, and having been dogless for about 2 years and having had such a GREAT dog last time (German Bred GSD), I ended up with another GSD. 

Now, I ALMOST got a BC and someday I will get a BC, but I talked to a few BC people and they all suggested that I should stick with what I know. Not because of any reason than it made the most sense and I knew it would work for me. 

Now, a few told me to get a BC. All but one of the people I talked to has previously had GSD's before getting BC's and so they knew both breeds. 

Honestly, after reading thru all these posts by Xeph and all thereplies, I really think that getting another GSD would be the most sensible thing. The BF hasn't really made up his mind other than he likes wolves (maybe he should volunteer somewhere where he can be proximate to the species and that might take care of that desire?). 

If it is the look of the wolf he likes over the behavior of the wolf, then stick with what you know, and get a sable GSD. If it is the behavior of wolves he likes, then working with the species is what he should do. Just my opinion.


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