# Breeder used "national dog food" puppy formula



## katama (Oct 5, 2009)

Has anyone ever heard of them? Any opinions? I don’t know much about dog food and wanted to know what you think. How do the ingredients look?
http://www.nationaldogfood.com/puppy2.html


----------



## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

It's pretty bad. =/

Here is a good site to visit if you want to learn how to read pet food labels.


----------



## shets114 (Sep 10, 2008)

OH my god.. Is the dog still alive?????

If yes than how bad can it really be???

Everyone has a like and dislike. Many puppies have grown up to be healthy happy dogs on that food. So what makes it so bad. Is it the ingredient list because someone has been misinformed and has a prejudice that they believe one ingredient is better than another? 
Please if it is so bad please post legitimate references that back up your thoughts. That way more people can be educated on these fowl ingredients. 
Please post from a nutritional reference not a internet blog site or review site that won't answer emails as to their credentials.


----------



## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

That site is owned by a trained nutritionist. Did you not look through it?


----------



## Ayanla (Jun 11, 2009)

I think it's a little harsh to say that people who think feeding a grain heavy food to their dogs are "misinformed and has a prejudice that they believe one ingredient is better than another"

It's not some sort of anti-grain religious cult we're all involved in.

I do think that each owner has to make the food decision for themselves and their dogs, the same way parents make decisions for their children. That's not to say that the science isn't there to back up the idea that foods primarily consisting of grains (as the linked food is- with two of the top three being grains) are not as nutritionally fulfilling as foods consisting primarily of meat. Choosing to believe the research done that points to a "meat is better" conclusion does not make someone "misinformed" or "prejudiced".


----------



## shets114 (Sep 10, 2008)

Read some of Dr Aldrich's work and others and you will find many nutritionist don't believe in the same things. So who do you trust? 
Maybe what works. 
For decades dogs lived long healthy lives on what we consider poor diets. Now we buy $2.00 a pound dog foods that are suppose to cure all ailments. Then we buy dog treats that contridict the food we buy or add a bunch of toppings to the food that totaly throws the balanced food we bought for $2.00 a pound and wonder what is wrong. ???
Meanwhile millions of people are still feeding those icky grain diets and don't have issues. 
Just read the thousands of post on here and you will find many from those that are feeding those fancy diets that are so great that have issues. Sure there are those that have a problem with grain diets also. Guess what someday everyone will realize that not every dog is going to do well on a particular protein/fat or meat type. 
So feed what works and if the dog is eating it readily and you can afford it be happy with your dog and quit being so neurotic your making your dog more sick by stressing about it anyway. Yesss. That's right more issues with dog diets and ailments are do to stress and you can add to it by your own neurosis about food and reading all the bull spread by the internet.


----------



## Ayanla (Jun 11, 2009)

Millions of children grew up and lived long lives after sleeping in cribs with wide slats painted in lead based paint. Millions of parents gave their sick infants aspirin and had no problems. 

Now we know that babies can get their heads stuck in those wide slats and we know that lead based paint, when ingested by a mouthy child, can result in mental stunting. Now we know that aspirin can result in Rye Syndrome. The science isn't negated by the millions who were unaffected.

Things change as science changes. Just look at our own food. We went from a society eating mostly natural, local, foods, to a society eating heavily processed foods full of corn products in all forms imaginable. Now science is discovering that our bodies don't process these foods as well as we thought, and that there are some health issues that seem to be caused or worsened by heavily processed diets, and the trend is starting to shift back to natural foods again. Again, the science isn't changed by the millions who have lived long lives eating a heavily processed diet.

I am aware that even nutritionists don't agree on the issue of grain in a dog's diet. To me, however, this issue is very simple and it has nothing to do with a dogs relationship to wolves or their lineage. It has to do with the teeth in their head. A dog's mouth is clearly the mouth of an animal that nature intends to eat a primarily meat based diet. I've attached two pictures of skulls. One is a human skull. Humans are omnivores designed to eat a primarily plant based diet. You can see it in our teeth, with a large portion designed to grind down plants and only a few designed to the processing of meat. You tell me how anyone can argue that the pit bull, with a mouth full of teeth designed for ripping and tearing meat, is supposed to eat a diet primarily full of plants and grains. I'm not of the opinion that dogs should have no plants or grains ever. Clearly they are omnivores, but their teeth show quite plainly that they are designed to eat a diet primarily consisting of meat. Therefore my dogs get a diet heavy in meat based proteins and their primary diet is grain free (while their treats generally are not).


----------



## shets114 (Sep 10, 2008)

No matter what they are and what kind of teeth one has. 

Amino Acids are Amino Acids.

Once they are chewed it doesn't matter to the dog. They get what they need out of what they are fed. As long as it is in a balance. 
I'm not saying a dog will do great on a corn diet nor a meat diet. It is a balance.

If dogs are straight carnivores, lets do a test. Feed your dog nothing but meat for a 6 month period. No supplements or extras... I'll feed mine my nasty kibble. then lets go run for an 8 hour period. 
Who's will last the longest?


----------



## Ayanla (Jun 11, 2009)

shets114 said:


> No matter what they are and what kind of teeth one has.
> 
> Amino Acids are Amino Acids.
> 
> ...


I didn't say they were straight carnivores. In fact, I clearly said that they were omnivores and I clearly said that I was not of the opinion that they should have no plants or grains period. Arguing a point I didn't make is useless.

Their teeth indicate they are primarily meat eaters, as in their bodies are designed to work the best on a diet heavy in meat with less vegetable and/or grains. There is nothing you have said that in any way disputes that simple biological fact.

Saying it doesn't matter once it's chewed makes no sense. Chewed up grain still consists of the basic properties of grain once it's chewed up. It doesn't magically become meat protein that the dog can use.


----------



## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

In most cases, a puppy is best off continuing what it was weaned on. I have heardof case after case of a puppy doing well on one brand, but was switched to a brand with ''better'' ingredients. 

Glad to see the food debates here actually are debates and somebody else realizes amino acids are amino acids and once in a dog's bloodstream the dog's body can't tell if one came from corn or organic free range New Zealand lamb.


----------



## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Everything comes down to poo. 

Why do I feed my dog a grain-free kibble? Because he hardly ever poops and when he does it's small, well-formed, and on a schedule I set my watch by. When he was on grocery-store brand kibble it was runny, a weird color, and came out of his butt in no pattern I could discern. I almost made a graph and ran statistical analysis on it, but figured it was easier to just cough up the extra dollar and support my local businesses as well. What happened the day after I switched (cold, because I poorly planned when to go get the new bag)? Awesome stools again.

For me, the proof is in the poop.

Will it work for you, or any one else necessarily? Maybe. Maybe not. My dog is not your dog. I can only offer my opinion based on my experiences, which is what I thought was the benefit of the forum medium. shets114 has a point that you should feed what works for your dog. I know there are people on this forum that have tried premium brands, and their dogs just don't do well on them. The point is though, you never know until you try them. Some dog food companies will send you samples if you write them.


----------

