# Your opinon of DockDogs?



## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

In the sense of how it could fit into a dog sport club?

I was talking to the local dog sport club I'm a part of about adding more venues to the club, and we were considering DockDogs (DD). I'm interested bringing dog sports to more people and making it more affordable/accessible. DD is something that came out after I retired my last dog from dog sports so I never got the opportunity to try it myself or get involved in running events (as I've done for agility, flyball, etc...).

So I was reading the DD rulebook today to try and learn the ins and outs, and I was surprised at how insanely proprietary it is. :suspicious: Unlike the other dog sports I've done it seems to be entertainment and a brand rather than a sport and sanctioning body. All of their events are registered trademarks and they charge a lot of fees for the right to hold their events and practice their sport at your club. High level competitions require that you use their proprietary equipment, software, and even staff. They are within their rights to do this, I just found it an odd way for a sport to be sanctioned. I actually find it a little disappointing as well...

I'm not sure how much has changed in the years since I last competed in dog sports, but I was surprised to read that if your DD event is offering a monetary prize to the winners of a competition, it has to be in DD's own "credits" that you can use to buy their merch or more memberships with (also this "money" expires in one year). It seems to scream "give us your money!". Most of the rewards for competition are based around cash.

Your club has to register with DD to hold events, and the entry fees are also all standardized and collected through DD. Hummm... What would a club have to pay to just hold this event, on top of other things the club pays for (running the facility). You have to run a lot of little things by DD and get their written approval before you can do something in regards to their sport.

I've noticed that despite the high entertainment and excitement value of this kind of competition, dog sport clubs here have been reluctant to take it on. I think I can see why now? With all the fees and restrictions it seems that there is little incentive to hold such an event other than to attract more people (outsiders) to the club or to a different event. But is it worth it? There are quite a few non-for-profit dog sport clubs here.

Do you compete in DogDogs? What are your opinions of the sport in the sense of how it's managed and sanctioned? Are there any other sanctioning bodies for a similar sport that are more non-for profit? Opinions on sport vs entertainment? Tell me what you think. :wink:


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Yikes. I have no direct experience with it, but I have a coworker who does it with her labs. She loves it. I'll see if I can find a moment to ask her about this part of it.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Interesting! I was signed up for a newbie event at the local club last week, but cancelled when my dog was diagnosed with lyme. When I get another chance to go, this gives me something to think about and ask about.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

I was just at an event this weekend and it really is fun for all involved, but the proprietary issues still bother me somewhat.

Lyme, oh no! I hope Watson will be ok.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

I train Damon, Max, and Piper in DockDogs. Jasper will start in the spring more than likely. I have not competed yet however. I know that my facility has to pay big time to put on shows, and training. Which in the end means that I pay a lot.  I do want to compete with Max and Jasper (if he does well) and my dogs love it so I can put up with the weirdness that is DD.  I train with Damon for pure entertainment. He does not have what it takes to compete in this sport. I train Max and Piper hard because they love it. I also train them hard because I hope for max to compete. I hope that Jasper likes it so that I can compete with him as well. I love the sport and the dogs have so much fun. And boy does it knock them out. =) And I am not complaining one bit on that front. haha

I am thankful that my facility puts up with DD's rules and such so that we can train and compete in DDs. I love it. They have been talking about stopping the training program as well as offering small town shows. I would be upset if they did. The next closest is 2 hours away and I just can't make that drive.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Lord at the risk of offending any one involved, I think it's pure entertainment. At least the simple splashes. All the events I've seen are just dogs jumping in the pool and every one having a good time regardless of how far the dog jumped. The cost of entry fees and how much they charge to even set up for an event seems silly to me.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

I don't like the dogs just splashing in the water. I love training for the Extreme vertical.  Like in this video.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah, I think that adds something to it! I think the regular splash competitions are fun to watch for the sake of how much fun the dogs are having, but it's not particularly complex.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Lord at the risk of offending any one involved, I think it's pure entertainment. At least the simple splashes. All the events I've seen are just dogs jumping in the pool and every one having a good time regardless of how far the dog jumped. The cost of entry fees and how much they charge to even set up for an event seems silly to me.


Maybe THAT'S the allure -- ANYBODY with a dog can compete. Well, a dog .. and a fistful of cash. 

I'm not a competitor, no offense intended either but I can see how it doesn't really require an advanced skill set for handler or dog. The way agility, obedience, herding, or hunt tests would for example. 

Got bumper? Got bumper-driven dog? Got water? then you're pretty much good to go.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

petpeeve said:


> Maybe THAT'S the allure -- ANYBODY with a dog can compete. Well, a dog .. and a fistful of cash.
> 
> I'm not a competitor, no offense intended either but I can see how it doesn't really require an advanced skill set for handler or dog. The way agility, obedience, herding, or hunt tests would for example.
> 
> Got bumper? Got bumper-driven dog? Got water? then you're pretty much good to go.


Woof yeah, I've seen it $15-$20 per jump. Uh.. no thanks. They can jump in the lake for free. The other things they started doing with the jumps seem neat/require some skill, but admittedly when I first heard of it a few years ago I thought the splashes/single jump things were meant for kids and their dogs.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

$12-15 was about how much it cost per agility run at trials back when I competed. I'm not sure where exactly the money goes for that. The rulebooks for agility sanctioning bodies certainly don't have entire sections detailing finances (finances that say, it all goes to us! you're just leasing our name!).

A dock dog pool I priced cost almost $10,000. If you can't recoup the investment, that's not feasible for most clubs. Humm...


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

petpeeve said:


> Maybe THAT'S the allure -- ANYBODY with a dog can compete. Well, a dog .. and a fistful of cash.
> 
> I'm not a competitor, no offense intended either but I can see how it doesn't really require an advanced skill set for handler or dog. The way agility, obedience, herding, or hunt tests would for example.
> 
> Got bumper? Got bumper-driven dog? Got water? then you're pretty much good to go.


Not really sense a lot of dogs don't like water,and some that do wont jump in it good enough to compete. Dogs that can't even jump 13 feet in length should not be in it.
I could teach my Rottie to do agility but not dock jumping. Pretty much any dog can be taught to do obedience and rally.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Foresthund said:


> Not really sense a lot of dogs don't like water,and some that do wont jump in it good enough to compete. Dogs that can't even jump 13 feet in length should not be in it.
> I could teach my Rottie to do agility but not dock jumping. Pretty much any dog can be taught to do obedience and rally.


Can be taught is the key, here. 

I could go to a dock diving competition with Thud and Kylie tomorrow and put in an awfully good show. No preparation, no work, no handling skills, no special skills required. I could have, truthfully, done decent dock diving with either one of them at 4 months old, though Kylie would not likely have gotten the distance at her size at that age. Diving after a thrown item into water, though? < 3 months old. Thud, the same. 

It doesn't take a dog who has special training. It doesn't take an owner who has worked with their dog to develop a skill. It takes a dog who likes water and fetch. 

That doesn't make for much of a sport, in my opinion. It makes for a good time! But sport? Meh. Skill and ability aren't the same. Dog sports for me are testaments of skills, in the handler and the dog - a learning process. Not just the ability to do a thing.









First time Kylie SAW water.









A week later she was doing decent water retrieves.

Both of those pictures are at around 3 months old. 

A YEAR later? She will merrily dive off a (low) bridge or platform to do it. 

Thud? Never hesitated to jump after anything thrown.










Not disparaging or trying to cause offense, and the trained vertical things and what have you DO impress me, but dock diving itself just doesn't.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I actually watched some dog show on netflix and one of the families they talked to was a couple breeding dogs specficially for dock dogs. The two dogs were labs specifically selected for how far they could jump off the dock and they were breeding them to hopefully produce a litter of "champions." At the time, I thought it was just a lab thing and shrugged and moved on.

I'd completely get breeding dogs based on that PLUS some other qualities, like temperment, maybe both being great at hunting or tracking, or something else, but selecting for that single trait, jumping really far off a dock...seemed a bit odd to me.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I know a few people online that do it. My club has discussed getting dock diving going but I'm not sure how it will work.

I've thought about trying it for fun with Nextdog but I don't see really training or competing in it. Just seems a little... repetitive.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> $12-15 was about how much it cost per agility run at trials back when I competed. I'm not sure where exactly the money goes for that. The rulebooks for agility sanctioning bodies certainly don't have entire sections detailing finances (finances that say, it all goes to us! you're just leasing our name!).


Just a bit off topic....but agility trials cost a ton of money to put on. A huge cost is the judge. They get a run fee, meaning a set amount for each run they judge, usually $1/run. All judges have a minimum per day, usually between $250-300 per day. Then there is the airfare, hotel costs, costs of rental cars, meals. travel expense to and from the airport. One judge even went so far as charging a club $150 to board her dogs at home. The clubs have to pay rental fees for the field, insurance costs for the actual trial and insurance cost for the Board of directors of the club. Some clubs may rent equipment. If they own their own equipment, initial and maintenance costs add up pretty quickly. The trial secretary usually gets a stipend. (Not enough for all the work they do, IMO). Most clubs provide lunch and breakfast for volunteers. In addition, a certain amount goes to venue....It all adds up pretty quickly. A low turn out means a club can lose quite a bit of money. An excellent turn out will yield a nice profit that the clubs generally turn around to purchase more equipment or seminars or things for the club. My club provides award plaques at the end of the year with the titles that the dog earns that year.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Useful info, thanks. My club had to downsize our rosettes to ribbons a while ago because of cost. I've never been sure about what the judges are paid though.


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