# Advice needed for grooming Standard Schnauzer



## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

I have been reading through this forum and have learned so much! I am about to purchase tools so that I can groom my standard schnauzer. I discovered that most of you think the Andis Ultraedge 2 speed clippers are a good way to go. I don't know much about the blades and what would be good to get. I like to keep Cagney pretty short. As the blade number gets larger, does that mean that the cut is shorter?? I guess I need to know what blades I should purchase for a summer cut and longer for the winter coat. Do standard schnauzers need to be raked? Any tips you have would be great...thanks!


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## Franny Glass (Apr 23, 2008)

Standard schnauzers do have undercoat, but not a great deal of it usually. You could rake him, or just be dilligent with the slicker brush and the comb. Undercoat rakes seem to do little on clipped schnauzers, but my Furminator works well.

I've only ever groomed one standard schnauzer, but many many miniatures. Yes, the cut is closer the higher the blade number is. I usually use a 30 blade inside the pads of the feet (unless the skin is sensitive, use a 10). I use a 10 around the bum. Sometimes I do the head and body with a 10, but more often a 7, and for the people that want them on the long side as far as schnauzers go, a 5. Technically, a schnauzer's head is supposed to be shorter, usually one blade length, than it's body. Rarely do people request that for pet grooming in my experience, but it's an option. For example, the body would be done with an 8.5 or a 7, and the head would be shaved closer at a 10. The line between the lengths should be blended, which takes some practice.

My best advice as for clipping would be to experiement. Use a longer blade than you think you'll need first. It can always be clipped closer, and you'll get plenty of practice avoiding clipper marks and getting him smooth. Don't dig in with the clipper or go against the grain of the hair, as that can irritate the skin. Also watch to make sure the blade doesn't become too hot. I use Oyster Cool Lube on my blades to keep them cool. There are differing opinions on the product, but I like it.

The face and furnishing on your dog will need to be scissored to keep him in a breed trim. This, again, is practice. There are plenty of books out there with good diagrams to help you see where to clip, blend, and scissor.

My favorite shears are my curved blunt ended ones. They're the most safe and utilitarian ones I own. The curve is awsome for going around feet, and they can be flipped over for a fairly straight edge to be used on the face and ears.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Hey Fanny Glass-- thanks for all your information!! I just got the Andis clipper. I got a 7F blade. I think this will be good for the body. I will have to get a pair of curved blunt ended shears. I have no experience so....look out Cagney. I know what I like so I will really have to practice.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Good luck with your grooming  

You can always handstrip his pattern as well, this takes a bit more practice, but looks really nice, and won't change his hair coat\texture over time. 

For handstripping, you can 'cheat' by utilizing tools such as Furminators, and Coat King stripping tools; these remove the top shedding coat. You can take as much or as little of the top coat as you wish; it all depends on the 'look' you want to achieve...short or longer patterned. 

Once you are done stripping out the pattern, you can then use your scissors to trim around his feet, and finish his beard and eyebrows (you would still use a blade to 'shape' the typical short patterned head.


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## London Calling (Dec 27, 2007)

Not to steal your thread Crazydays but the reply you got from Love's_Sophie has sparked a question for me. Love's_Sophie said using the Furminator or Coat King to cheat stripping.My question is will using these tools bring out my minis harder coat?She is only 7 months an i really do like the harder or harsher coat look to the softer clipped look on them.Thanx and i hope you dont mind me jumping on here.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Hey london you aren't butting in at all!! Everyone learns this way. Conrats on your pup! Pictures please!!!


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## Franny Glass (Apr 23, 2008)

<----- HATES hand-stripping.

I love the way it looks, I just don't want to be the one that has to do it!

The Furminator is great for hard coats. In between full groomings it adds some shine. It does get out loose hairs, but it won't eliminate the need to hand strip. A good scrub with a pumice stone in the bath does practically the same thing, and doesn't cost $50!

I also have a problem getting lines exactly right with a Furminator, even the smallest one. And the repeated raking with it can irritate the skin, and then you have to powder and pluck anyway.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Today i groomed Cagney and things went fairly well. I have a few questions with respect to trimming the hair between the eyes.I was using scissors but I am wondering if I should be using the clippers. Also when I trim the beard do I use scissors or some other tool. What do you use to blend the coat from short along the back to the longer hair under the belly?








Thanks


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

I use my shears to snip a small 'bridge' between the dog's eyebrows... 

You can blend any part of his pattern with a pair of thinning shears; just hold them straight (but don't 'press' it) against the 'line' you wish to blend and give it a few snips, comb down, and see how it looks, repeat if you wish to blend it further. 

With his feet, I've noticed you've accomplished a bit of 'pencil' foot; which happens when you scissor off too much hair off of a dog who is supposed to have a 'fuller foot. Instead of scissoring on top of his foot next time, simply brush the hair downward, and scissor what comes beyond the nails, but nothing more, and none on top. 

For the beard, you can certainly use your scissors to trim it even; I use the shears to trim it even, then my thinning shears to make it look more natural and to thin it out if it needs it.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Loves Sophie- thanx alot. That really helps. I am going to have to buy a good pair of thinning shears and scissors. Do you have a suggestion as to make and length to buy for each?


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Looks great for your first time! If you have a picture of her standing, taken from the side, we could help you with pattern lines. It looks like they are a bit off in the front, but hard to tell in that position. Her head looks pretty darn good for your first time. I will offer some pointers for next time to work on. The insides of her ears should be shaved very short, like a #30 or #40. The outsides of the ears with a #10, and make sure you clip from the middle of the ear towards the edges to avoid cutting them. Then you want to scissor the ear edges very tight. Go slow, it takes alot of practice to get them tight enough without cutting the ear. I use thinning shears in between the eyebrows. Good ones are 44/20 or fromms, I would say at least 44 teeth for the finishing work you want to do with blending. Less teeth than that and you run the risk of just making things chunky. The more teeth, the better for finishing/blending. I would say for shears, you don't need anything longer in length than 7-8 inches long. If you get curves, no longer than 7ish in length. Her feet look great! Good job. As you continue to groom her, you will get more of an "eye" for it, and be able to tighten up the lines. Overall, great job.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

I like Scorpion and Gator series\brand scissors and thinning shears...the first is a more expensive line that last forever, and the latter is a bit cheaper but hold up for years as well. Just NEVER drop them on a tile floor...that chips them, even if you can't see the chips with your eyes...and the chips cause further dulling, and can break the dog's hair as well, instead of cutting it nicely.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

As you can see I had a clipper nightmare at the back of her neck and along her back in spots. Her coat was very long and she has alot of skin at the back of the neck. 

Thank you for the tips on clipping her ears-helps alot.
I am in the process of buying thinning shears so the info on # of teeth was very helpful. With respect to thinning the hair (ie beard) do you follow the growth of the hair? Do you click them once or several times? Lastly, I promise- what do you use on the bum? I used a 10 blade.


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## Franny Glass (Apr 23, 2008)

YAY! She looks awsome! Things can only get better.

I prefer a 10 blade for the bum. Some people go shorter, but it can cause the itchies sometimes.

Necks can be hard to clip. Pull the skin back when clipping to smooth it out. You'll get a more even cut that way. You could even go back and do that now, and it'll smooth it out a little.

Skimming with the blade is what I do most often for blending. When clipping down into a longer area of coat, pull the blade up as if you're going up a ramp on the way down. You can also do this with a very close blade (usually a 30 or 40) and just skim hair off long spots, like the beard. I hope that makes sense. I'm awful at explaining it.

I'm terrible at explaining thinning too, it's all visual for me, so I'll let someone else answer that.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Franny- thanks again for all your input!


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Crazydays, you really did a nice job for a first time. Your pattern is pretty good, and now you can work on the finishing touches. Here are some thoughts for you. 

It looks like you have lots of clipper lines/uneven spots along the back and sides. A few things can cause this. Like Franny mentioned, pulling the loose skin tight is very important. Also, make sure you are only clippering her right after bathing and drying her. Dirty hair will not go thru the blade smoothly, and will also dull your blades fast. I thought you said you were using a 7F but I can't find that post anywhere, so maybe that is just what I was thinking..lol If you are using a 7F, that is great. Some use a #10, but that is too short IMO and is hard to blend, and doesn't look natural as a sch. should. Also, make sure when clipping that you are going in the direction the hair grows. As the hair starts to change direction, you need to follow with the blade. Light strokes, let the clipper do the work. 


You can tidy up your overall pattern/blend line. Front leg should be to just above the elbow, and blended. (thinning shears will be helpful if you are having a hard time blending with the clipper, which does take lots of practice). Also, you can give more definition in the rear legs also, and really clean up that blend line tighter. 

Ideally, you don't thin the beard itself. You thin where the pattern line is, between the eyebrows, etc. If you need/want to take length off the beard, thinners are the way to go, as it will look more natural. If you want to thin the beard, (because it sticks out, looks too poofy, etc. Never thin the top hair..ONLY the hair underneath. Hmm..let me see how to explain this...If you want to thin the side of the beard for instance..With the dog facing your face, take the thinners up under the side of the beard and flush against the dogs skin/jaw (careful you don't pinch skin though) and make ONE cut. Then comb that. If its not what you want, make one more cut..etc. Only do one cut at a time, of you will get holes in the beard. That technique will leave the beard natural, and make it lay flatter. If you cut the outer beard hairs, they will stick out. Does that make sense? This stuff is hard to explain..much easier to show in person. lol 


When I am thinning/blending pattern lines, etc. I go down into the hair from above and blend downwards, making many cuts at the same time until I am happy with the blending. 

I also use a 10 blade on bum, sanitary, armpits and outsides of ears. #40 insides of ears and pads of feet. 

Oh, if you have a 4F blade, you can use it backwards (against the growth) on those spots on her back with the clipper lines. That will take those out for now. I also use a 7F reverse on the head and cheeks and throat (careful on the throat though). It gives a cleaner look than a 10, and the head, throat, cheeks should be shorter than the back length. 

Please ask any questions you have. These boards are here to help. Don't feel bad for asking questions.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Excellent advice Graco! I didn't bath Cagney so that info is vital for sure! I must admit that I was forcing the clippers instead of letting them cut through her hair. Yes the beard- I like it to look natural but, it is getting "poofy". I like her more streamline ( less cutesy/feminine ). I guess I am going for sizzling hot!!! Hey I never got sizzling hot...my dog has hope!!!

I love what I am learning. Need to get the thinning shears. I have scissors but they aren't quality. This stuff adds up but I guess once you have it you are set!!


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

You can get to sizzling hot with some practice.  I would also let those eyebrows grow, and use some gel after bathing her on them while still wet to pull them forward and train them to grow correctly rather than up and back like they are..They need to grow more too as that will add the weight of the hair and help them lay properly. Thinners will definitly help you tidy up and streamline her. I LOVE my Kenchii thinners, but they are not cheap! 44/20s will work great for you though, and they are more reasonable, about $100. Well worth the money. You do get what you pay for in grooming tools, and nice shears and thinners will help your finished look. I have actually found Master Grooming Tool shears to be quite efficient at everyday pet grooms. I don't use them in grooming competitions, but they give a nice finish on pet grooms. THey are very reasonably priced, and you would only need a 7-8 inch pair if you want to replace the shears you are using? Oh, if your blade is not going thru clean, dry hair easily, then it is dull and needs to be sharpened. You should not have to force the blade thru the hair. It should glide thru. If not, then either your blade is dull, or your clippers are not strong enough. What clippers are you using?


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

I just bought the Andis 2 speed clippers. Thanks for your suggestions.


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## Motebi (Apr 8, 2008)

If you want the coat to be harsh you have to trim by hand.  Clipping makes the coat soft.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

The Andis 2 speeds are great clippers. They will work just great for you.  I can't wait to see how you do on the next groom. You will get better and better each time. You did a great job for the first time though. You should be proud.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Thanks for all your support! In theory I agree that striping is the way to go-especially for show dogs. I made the decision years ago that we would have her clipped because- she is so active..like it short..easier to manage..she isn't a show dog. I do love the striped coat. It makes the Standard Schnauzer look rugged and confident and strong. My wiggles is just wiggles( Cags)-sweet, sensitive and very active!! She keeps up no problem with my Eng Springer. At the dog park she chases and herds all the larger breed dogs. She needs a manageable coat. Graco- I am considering the eyebrow suggestion. They do look intriguing and "sexy" with long eyebrows. I have always seen Cags beautiful eyes-love her expression...not sure I want to hide them.

Once again-thanks! You guys have helped immensely!


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

I understand your thoughts on her eyebrows.  If done correctly, you can still see the eyes very well even with eyebrows. I am not a fan of hugely long brows like we are seeing in the show ring now though...its just too much. lol They are dogs...lol


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Hey Graco. Thought you might like to see Cagneys littermate "Sydney". My best friend owns her so they are good friends. From early on Syd was groomed with the long eyebrows and she is gorgeous. We always kept Cags with the shorter ones. I love Syd...it seems to be her style. She is a no nonsense dog!!! I think she has the eyebrows you talked about.










The photo doesn't do Cags justice. My Springer pup was playing with the Girlz!!

Thanks for everything.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Aww, she's cute. Those are some serious eyebrows though..that is not "correct" though and I can see why you don't want that look..you can't see her eyes at all. The eyebrows should be trimmed at an angle from the nose to the outside corner of the eye, very short at the outside corner. It looks like they were having a blast playing! Here is a good website that shows good pics of nice eyebrows, where you can still see the eyes. I take most of my pet schn. a bit shorter than these pics, especially the outside corners. I am posted a pic of some sch. I found online (I didn't groom those dogs) where they are in pet cuts with schn. brows. Hopefully I can post a pic..never done it here before.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Syd has always been a bit outrageous but she is so darn cute!
I am going to start grooming Cagneys eyebrows to be like the photos you have. Her eyelashes are very long. From the photo it looks as though the eyebrows are about the same length as the eyelashes.
She has always had the same look so something new might be really fun! Good thing about hair is it grows back!!!


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

I love to do new things too. LOL My poor standard poodle will have had every poodle trim on him by the time he is old. He is in continental right now, and that is TONS of hair..I am going to do a German trim next I think..but its going to take awhile to grow that in. Like you said, its only hair, and it grows back pretty fast..Sometimes faster than we want it to! LOL


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Hey Graco!! I got bold and tried to cut Cags eyebrows. She actually got comments on her eyebrows!! I love her new look but, I need pointers. They look like a "ledge" abover her eyes. Do you use thinning shears to take away the thickness??? The second shot tells me when I get the clippers out I need to blend better. Would the thinning shears be better to use?


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Awesome job on her brows!!! They aren't too thick, but you need to take them tighter at the outside corner of the eye. They should be very tight there, and you can shorten them some more if you want them shorter/tighter. It looks like you have a good angle on them. It would be easier to tell if you have a straight on shot of her head also. If you want them thinner, use the thinning shears, but keep in mind that if you thin them out, they may stick up, etc. because its the weight of the hair that helps them hold the shape. You definitly can go tighter on the outside corners, and I think that may help "soften" the look for you too, and expose more of her eye too, without losing the eyebrow effect. And for blending, its always easier to use thinners rather than clippers. I can see in the close up pic too, that you can tidy the beard line also. Outside corner of eye to the mole with the whiskers poking out of it on the cheek. I am sure it has an actual name..lol but I don't know it, sorry. The beard is too far back on the lower jaw/lower cheek area. You can move that up to that mole. It takes practice, but if you use your 7F in reverse on the cheeks, you can tidy all that very well. Also, you can slide the 7F in reverse UNDER the beard hair just a tiny tad, and that will tidy that line for you, and you won't need to use thinners to blend in, you will have a nice defined line there for the beard. I tried to draw the lines on your photo, but I am not good at straight lines with a mouse..lol But maybe you can get the idea of what I am saying. The pic was taken at a bit of an angle, so the beard line looks a little off but you can see what I mean about taking more off the lower cheek/jaw there. The lines where the beard meets the cheeks should be super short/tight, like a reverse 7F or a #10 (though I prefer the reverse 7F cause you don't get the clipper lines and irritation either). Does that help any? You did do a great job getting the shape of those brows though! Great job. She looks just fabulous!


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Thanks Graco. I will definitely work on her beard too. I think I get what you were saying. I have the 7F blade so I will give it a try. I attached a photo that was more head on. The photo head on didn't really show her eyebrows well but you can see her eys..love seeing her eyes! Thanx again for all your suggestions.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Aww..she is darn cute! Looks really good from the front view too. Like I said before, I would just tighten the outside corners, and keep the shape you have, you did a great job on the shape. I can see from this angle too that you can clean up the inside of the ears alot too. I usually use a #40 blade, but a #30 will work too, or a #10 if you don't have the 30 or 40. Its a cleaner look with the shorter blades. You can shave the entire inside of the ear out, and a tiny bit at the base of the ear too, and that will clean those lines up. Just take the blade and start in the middle of the ear, and go straight out over the edges in a perpendicular angle. You don't want to take the blade up the ear leather, but instead across it. That also helps you not have to scissor up so much on the edge afterwards. I am not good at explaining, its so much easier to show someone..lol I hope you get what I am saying? You are doing a great job on her though. Keep up the good work.


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