# Mirada's Progress and a Question



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Well, I have to say that now that the weather is getting a bit nicer, I've started working on heeling with Mirada more (the thing I hate to teach most), and we've made progress. Off leash we really haven't had issues, but onleash she would slink around like I had been beating her. Don't know why, only know that as of today, she's not doing it.

Mirada is understanding position relatively well, has nice, flashy heel work, and enjoys herself, however, I'm having a couple of issues that I've not been able to fix.

#1 is turns...left, right, and about. She swings wide on about turns, and all the luring in the world is not helping her to get it right. I cannot keep her in at my side. Conversely, on right turns while she does not go wide, she does lag, and again luring is not helping, nor does calling her up and rewarding for correctness. On left turns, I cannot get her off of me. It's really obnoxious, as I'd like my space. She's gotten stepped on more than once already, and still is in my way (I am not stepping on her on purpose).

#2 problem is touching me during her finish. On her left finish (I have not yet started the right finish, but anticipate the same issue) she will get into position, and then LEAN on me. I also do not like this, not only because it costs points, but because it's uncomfortable, puts me off balance, and intrudes on my own personal space. Stepping away does no good because it doesn't actually MEAN anything, and shoving doesn't work because of the opposition reflex.

All in all, I'm pleased with the progress, and think we'll be able to get our RN this year, but I'd really like to get a couple of these issues taken care of so we're more prepared for the CD next year.

On a super positive note, her retrieves are going extremely well. At this point I am trying to get her to understand position in front, so we've removed the dumbbell from the equation and are only working short recalls right now,


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Well, I have to say that now that the weather is getting a bit nicer, I've started working on heeling with Mirada more (the thing I hate to teach most), and we've made progress. Off leash we really haven't had issues, but onleash she would slink around like I had been beating her. Don't know why, only know that as of today, she's not doing it.

*It's because you stopped beating her *

Mirada is understanding position relatively well, has nice, flashy heel work, and enjoys herself, however, I'm having a couple of issues that I've not been able to fix.

#1 is turns...left, right, and about. She swings wide on about turns, and all the luring in the world is not helping her to get it right. I cannot keep her in at my side. Conversely, on right turns while she does not go wide, she does lag, and again luring is not helping, nor does calling her up and rewarding for correctness. On left turns, I cannot get her off of me. It's really obnoxious, as I'd like my space. She's gotten stepped on more than once already, and still is in my way (I am not stepping on her on purpose).

*What I did...for side-winding, I used a wall. We practiced left AND right turns next to a wall to build muscle memory for staying straight, close, but not *too* close. Right turns, Tag lagged horribly. What worked for him was to stop luring, do my turn and let him lag. The INSTANT he came back up to position, I clicked. I also made use of doing my right turn and flinging the reward ahead of me so he had to drive forward to get it. I did this all the time, lagging or not, because the point wasn't to punish lagging...the point was to get him driving with his rear around right/about turns. I wonder if the latter would work for Mirada. 
Left turns were the same, if I wasn't tripping over him he was heeling too close, so I taught him to "back" for left turns. This works a lot more nicely for a dog his size, hopefully someone with a larger dog will chime in. Essentially if we're doing a 180 left turn, he heels foward, and as I turn he "backs" beside me, staying in position. It's really REALLY taken a lot of problems out of our left turns; correct or not I don't care because I'm not ramming into my dog. *

#2 problem is touching me during her finish. On her left finish (I have not yet started the right finish, but anticipate the same issue) she will get into position, and then LEAN on me. I also do not like this, not only because it costs points, but because it's uncomfortable, puts me off balance, and intrudes on my own personal space. Stepping away does no good because it doesn't actually MEAN anything, and shoving doesn't work because of the opposition reflex.

*If you step into her with your body, does she respect your space? I don't mean shoving or pushing her away, just taking a step to your left AS she's completing the finish?*

All in all, I'm pleased with the progress, and think we'll be able to get our RN this year, but I'd really like to get a couple of these issues taken care of so we're more prepared for the CD next year.

*Do a rally trial in my area, and we'll meet you there  *

On a super positive note, her retrieves are going extremely well. At this point I am trying to get her to understand position in front, so we've removed the dumbbell from the equation and are only working short recalls right now,

*I'm sending you Tag. He will happily retrieve anything I toss, but heaven forbid he can sit with something in his mouth. (Just an FYI for anyone out there--NEVER ask your dog, who spits the object out the second he comes back to you, to retrieve a heavy object while you're in your bare feet!) *


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I don't mean shoving or pushing her away, just taking a step to your left AS she's completing the finish?


No...she gets stepped on.

I'll try using the garage outside as our "wall". There's literally no room in the house to work on this stuff. Hopefully we'll make some headway.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Xeph said:


> No...she gets stepped on.
> 
> I'll try using the garage outside as our "wall". There's literally no room in the house to work on this stuff. Hopefully we'll make some headway.


Shot in the dark, but since most people teach "get in" could you teach "get out"? (Move AWAY laterally)?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

That's the plan! I think it's going to take a little time. Took her FOREVER to understand get in, and she just recently got the concept of "get back".

No practice today it looks like  Stupid rain!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't know if it'd work or you have/want to make time to train it, but after I started working with Frag with the silky leash method, his heel position during abouts and turns got better. He's more focused when on leash to paying attention to where we're going and where my hands are, and I get him a little amped up before an about, exxagerate the stop to turn (always use same footvery forcefully out from me), and he knows he's got to follow my hand and that's cue to fling around and he stays right by my side and doesn't lag anymore.

I don't know if it would work with most dogs or if I just got lucky, but he had terrible lagging issues before and wouldn't stay close reliably either.​


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Xeph said:


> That's the plan! I think it's going to take a little time. Took her FOREVER to understand get in, and she just recently got the concept of "get back".
> 
> No practice today it looks like  Stupid rain!


It took Tag ages to realize what "Get out" means, and he's not what I would consider good at it yet. He knows it better in agility, but when I ask for some room in the rally ring he's like barnacle boy. "BUT I WUVVVV YOUUUU <3".


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

#1 is turns...left, right, and about. She swings wide on about turns, and all the luring in the world is not helping her to get it right. *the one thing I do is, as you turn and she is catching up, give her a release and throw food in front of you. IOW's as she is making her turn, you are already thru the turn and releasing and tossing food ahead of you should get her wanting to move forward in the turn (I bet she lags sometimes on figure 8 too). Also, are you giving her a signal that you are going to turn (my signal is to slow a half step, look over my shoulder and then turn so the dog knows what is coming. Also, when you do the about, do YOU wobble. If I wobble (bum knee issues) Atka goes wide because she thinks I might fall and wants to be out of the way!*

I cannot keep her in at my side. *Don't try to get her at your side. Do the food toss on right turns as well.. and be sure you give her signals the turn is about to happen. Do some doodling too. Do figure 8's and on the outside turn JOG*Conversely, on right turns while she does not go wide, she does lag, and again luring is not helping, nor does calling her up and rewarding for correctness. *see above. Release as she is turning and toss food. *On left turns, I cannot get her off of me. It's really obnoxious, as I'd like my space. She's gotten stepped on more than once already, and still is in my way (I am not stepping on her on purpose). *Again, are you giving her warning you are going to turn? Do you keep YOUR shoulders in the correct position? You might try a little lean from your waist INTO her. *. 

#2 problem is touching me during her finish. On her left finish (I have not yet started the right finish, but anticipate the same issue) she will get into position, and then LEAN on me. I also do not like this, not only because it costs points, but because it's uncomfortable, puts me off balance, and intrudes on my own personal space. Stepping away does no good because it doesn't actually MEAN anything, and shoving doesn't work because of the opposition reflex. *As she is going back to make her turn into the finish step (small step)into HER space and/or lean, from your waist, slightly over her to make her take a step (small step) away from you. Dogs usually will go wide if you lean toward them, be it heeling or finishing. Another thing you can do is ask for the finish and as she is coming forward to sit, move off and give her the heel command. IOW's do not ALWAYS have her sit and completely finish.*

All in all, I'm pleased with the progress, and think we'll be able to get our RN this year, but I'd really like to get a couple of these issues taken care of so we're more prepared for the CD next year.

On a super positive note, her retrieves are going extremely well. At this point I am trying to get her to understand position in front, so we've removed the dumbbell from the equation and are only working short recalls right now, *For Fronts get two cut sections of chicken wire and bend them into semi circles and place them rounded side up to form a finish chute. Make it wide at first and then narrower. You can also hold two dowels out as a chute (do not touch the dog with the dowels). Eventually, you should be able to walk laterally and have the dog walk laterally with you, holding its front position. I am still working on this last one. *[/QUOTE]


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Also, when you do the about, do YOU wobble.


Often times, yes (very frustrating). I wobble "into" the turn (stagger to the right).



> Again, are you giving her warning you are going to turn?


Probably not. Aside from concentrating hard on not falling, I take rules very literally, and always felt that doing such counted as an extra cue for the dog, which isn't allowable in obedience.



> do not ALWAYS have her sit and completely finish.


Definitely don't do that 

We have not done figure 8's at ALL because I did not want to have the issues I'm dealing with in 3 different areas (and I also hate figure 8's xD...but mostly the former).

I don't have any sort of mirror to watch myself in, nor does my husband understand this stuff enough to be helpful, which is frustrating (and one of the reasons I don't practice obedience as often as I could/should). I appreciate the thoughts. She's such a different dog to work.

Strauss has apparently forgotten what a left turn is. We're going to fix that.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

> I take rules very literally, and always felt that doing such counted as an extra cue for the dog, which isn't allowable in obedience.


I've heard it justified this way - if you do not look at your dog while you're heeling (which I'm assuming you don't based on the videos I've seen of you working your dogs) then it is your responsibility to be looking where you're going since your dog's eye are on you.. so turning and looking in the direction you want to turn would make sense. I think of it as less of a cue (at worst, it's a non-faulted cue) and more as a way to make heeling more fluid and predictable.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> (which I'm assuming you don't based on the videos I've seen of you working your dogs)


I don't, but since it sounds like I CAN, I'd really like to start. I end up with a dog that doesn't end up distracted and I feel more comfortable. I don't feel like I can really feel the dog when I'm looking straight ahead...I don't feel connected.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

There isn't anything that says you can't look at the dog. The problem with looking at the dog, though, is that turning your head towards the dog pushes your left shoulder back, which is especially problematic around right/about turns.. because your body language says one thing (get back, we're turning left) while you're doing the opposite.

If you look at the dog out of the corner of your eye and keep your head straight, that might be a bit better.

I had a hard time of letting go of the idea of looking at Marge, but I can see that it's improved her heeling by me looking slightly down + ahead and glancing at her every so often (like on halts).


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