# Teeter v. dog walk



## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I reallyreally should be studying for my biochemistry exam tomorrow, but. Well. Boring.

Yesterday, in our agility class, Gypsy took an epic flight path off the end of the teeter before it got a chance to, you know, actually _teeter_. I think she confused the teeter with the dog walk. It was hilarious, but only because she wasn't hurt or even fazed. Any suggestions for helping a dog differentiate between the two? 

She is, um, VERY high drive on the course. We tend to bomb our first run through an obstacle set and nail the second one. I don't know how much is my bad handling at this point and how much is her crazies. Bringing her into the ring on leash is like reigning in a rabid wild beast. Should I be trying to get her to chill a little in the ring, or is this a good thing?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I just use very different verbals and make sure that I cue them BEFORE we hit that obstacle. I've seen dogs flatten themselves on the dog walk thinking they're hitting the tipping point on the teeter or vice-versa where they take the teeter at a run without stopping and go flying off the end.

I will warn though that I've seen teeter bobble fallout not really show up immediately after happening. The week Mia flew off the teeter she got back on just fine. The next week... fine but a bit slower. The next week.... even more concerned. Till it progressed to not going on at all. We're working through it now.

Did you start with the bang game and that kind of thing? We didn't do the full height teeter for several sessions. 

As far as keeping them up vs in control- it's a balancing act. I'd rather have mine too over the top than ho hum. Summer is hilarious her first run through. Getting her to the start line involves her flailing and jumping all over me. But I try to keep some sanity there or else the second I try setting her up she's out flying over a jump or lapping things. Her first run last night, I was sprinting and trying to hold on for dear life. It's a thrill to run a dog like that. Mia on the other hand, I tend to rev up and do a running start because she needs a bit more oomph at the beginning. She sometimes seems a bit bored by agility at times whereas Summer just breathes it. Every time she goes to the wrong obstacle, it is MY FAULT though. I am cuing the wrong obstacle with my body and in my experience it don't matter so much what you're saying, if your body language is telling the dog otherwise, the dog is going where your body language is telling them.

We worked discriminations this week and I very frequently had issues with (Summer especially) taking the wrong obstacle. Mia is much more obstacle focused whereas Summer is looking at me the entire course. I have to be much more careful about where I send her and make sure my hand signals are exaggerated so she can see them. Every time she missed the discrimination though my trainer had me stop and find out where I was in relation to her and the obstacle when she went to the wrong thing and every single time when I did that, I realized that Summer was right and I was wrong. Every time.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Object discrimination is tough. Especially between the dog walk and teeter! Lola got scared of the teeter for a few months last year and she started refusing the dog walk too because of it.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I use a different verbal - plank for Dog Walk and Teeter. Especially if you do NADAC agility...their dog walk has no slats and that can really confuse a green dog working in multiple venues. If your dog only sees equipment at your class, it can take a while for them to "get" the difference. 

If you have the room and are serious about the sport, I would recommend getting at least teeter for home. I picked up a used dog walk and teeter so I could teach and maintain the knowledge of the difference between the two. 

I have seen plenty of dogs get freaked over a teeter and then the dog walk falls apart because of that.

As for the over drive...I have that problem. My boys cannot watch other dogs run where we train. Lars is in a covered crate and Ocean has to stay in the car while waiting. He can't even be in the building with other dogs running or else he over loads and stops thinking. In the beginning of my agility journey, I let Lars get away with a lot of bad agility and bad behavior in class because "oh, he's having fun!" and "oh, there are no corrections in agility." But, that becomes a learned behavior...and they think that's what is supposed to happen in class...they get to run around like a jackass without making any effort in being a team player. Now, when that happens with both dogs (and Lars will still do it at almost 6 years old)...they get escorted off the course and they think they miss their turn. (They don't, because I do get in my two attempts at the course.) I'm starting this right from the get go with Ocean because he's too good to run around like an ass. Agility is a fun job and we are there to work....but they are not allowed to run amok taking obstacles on their own during class, period. I made a lot of mistakes with Lars because I didn't know better and I will not make them with O. Your instructor may not be as open to the walk of shame in class as mine is. But, my instructor has been there all through the Lars early years...and she is on board with not letting them run around like maniacs with their butts on fire in class.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

At one of our trials, Mikey, my sister's dog who usually took the teeter very carefully, raced up it and off the end. It caught my sister by surprise. He did not hurt himself but the next class he would not go up the dogwalk, she asked the judge if she could just pick him up and put him partway up and she did that. He was fine after that but still a little leery of the teeter and it took quite a while before he got over it.

Remmy did it once, early on in his training and you could tell he thought it was the dog walk. Luckily it never affected him but I always make sure I am very definite about saying either "walk" or "teeter".


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

One thing my trainer is having me correct is my awareness of Summer and getting her to and from the start line. She's a good little dog and I take advantage of that. I usually leave her off leash and we walk up to the start line together.... only Summer spends the entire time excitedly running from my left side to my right side.... which has led to her switching sides on me during a run without me cuing it. So I'm working on more control with her that way... If she's off leash then she's walking with me on one side.

That stuff can rub off on your runs. I would never have even thought it could be a problem since she sets up and runs well during our actual run.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm using "teeter" and "walk it." We've only been in agility for around 3 months, but have been progressing quickly. I do think this a issue of being green. Gyp doesn't know the obstacle verbals yet. As typical for her early in training, she's following my body language (and the appearance of the obstacles). I would really like to spend some time drilling the teeter, then the dog walk, but the class is very structured, and I'm not sure there'd be a good opportunity.

I'd love to get used obstacles. I've been posted WTBs on Craigslist, but so far, no luck.



> I will warn though that I've seen teeter bobble fallout not really show up immediately after happening. The week Mia flew off the teeter she got back on just fine. The next week... fine but a bit slower. The next week.... even more concerned. Till it progressed to not going on at all. We're working through it now.
> 
> Did you start with the bang game and that kind of thing? We didn't do the full height teeter for several sessions.


I'll watch for it the next few classes. Since the incident, we've been putting a bra on the teeter, with a target containing treats. The instructor wants to do that for a while with Gyp, to slow her down and reinforce the teeter.

We've never done the bang game. What is that? We did, however, use bags to limit height for a few classes. And in our first session of agility, there was no teeter, only wobble boards and skateboards.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I don't mean this as a slight so hopefully it comes out right but I think a lot of trainers will progress you faster than you really should in an attempt to hold students' attention or because they don't know any better. And it is easy to do with dogs like Gypsy or Summer who come by it naturally and don't ever have drive issues. But in my experience it can bite your butt later on if you want to start competing. 

I could go into a long thing about Summer and my first experiences with agility in Texas with our first 2 trainers and then starting over last year but I would make sure you're getting GOOD foundations, even if that means outside of class.

ETA: The basic jist is we started with a spring/summer of classes (4-5 months maybe?), learned the obstacles. A year later (no agility in between) ended up in Texas and started agility with a trainer who put us in the advanced class and running 1/2-full courses (which we could do) before I realized we hadn't covered foundations at all. It wasn't until ending up a year later with THAT trainer that I realized we had some trouble going on. I started back up here with Summer at age 8 in baby classes starting from scratch and it's going much smoother. 

The bang game is along the lines of the wobble board and skateboard. We use those plus also lately brushing up on closing doors- anything with movement and noise. The bang game- click and treat for the dog pushing down on the side of the teeter (or hopping on it like mine) and making it 'bang'. You raise the height so it bangs down harder. Then you go to a very low teeter and gradually raise it up. Our teeter is adjustable in height so you can control how much the dog drops on it.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

No worries. I don't take it that way. Gypsy's gusto and prior training means we have been progressing very quickly at these intro levels. I am concerned, as we get into more elaborate sequences and eventually trialing, that our lack of foundations practice will burn us. 

Last session, in Beginner Agility, we split into a couple groups within the ring and worked on individual obstacles and small sequences. We would do, say, a set of weaves from different directions, handler on both sides. Next dog, next dog, next dog. Then we'd add in a couple jumps after the weaves. The dogs and handlers were in the ring the whole class.

This session is a LOT different. One dog, one handler, and the trainer in the ring at a time. We run though a 4+ obstacle sequence until we get it right. Gypsy, while definitely high drive in the other session, is absolutely insane in this one. There's a lot more down-time, so when she finally gets in the ring, it's OMGYAYBARKBARKLEAPTUGSPANBAAARK. I'm a ton more nervous too, though I try to stay calm for her. I dunno. We're only two classes into this session, so it might change, but I'm not liking her performance in this session as compared to the last one. And I'm not sure why.

I like this CPE facility, the trainers, and the people a lot. I am debating, though, picking up an agility class at the local AKC facility for additional practice, especially with the foundations. A second agility class would be instead of the AKC rally, which I'd also contemplated. I've decided I definitely enjoy agility and want to stick with it. Do you think a second class would be beneficial?

The bang game is a great idea. The agility book I'm reading suggests something similar, involving treats for a noise, like knocking down blocks. Bet I could find a cheap skateboard and some cardboard kid blocks and work on motion + noise + reward.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Oh good, I'm glad it wasn't taken the wrong way. I am still glad I took those classes because they started me on this journey and everyone has to go through it a little differently. 

Anyways, I am lucky that Summer straddles right on the line of having great drive and also not being insane. She's fast and I never have to coach her up but she's not where I have to worry about her going flying off course much. Generally when she does I'm signaling her the wrong way. She's also 9 though so has slowed down some since her early years. She's a fantastic dog to learn on- saves my butt all the time! LOL

To me it sounds like Gypsy might need some work back down at a lower level just controlling herself. For really action-driven dogs it is ime harder to get them to calm down than actually you know... DO the stuff. 

I've thought about doing second classes but there's no real options for us at my place. The other good trainer only has like 3 nights of classes and they're long classes and they start too early across town for me to go home, get the dogs, then get there on time. I HAVE done multiple classes at once at the same facility (2 different trainers) and I like that a lot. They still teach things a little differently but overall it's similar. We did a distractions/teamwork class on the side and it was fantastic. More agility work but it was mostly focusing on keeping your dog with you through some very intense distractions (like other dogs out on the field, dancing people, people lying on the ground, squeaky toys being thrown, loud noises, etc).

1 on 1 is definitely more normal in my opinion. We have always crated dogs during class if you are not working. And yea the crating really amps my dogs up a lot.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Another thought would be one of the foundation classes online or even recallers (Susan Garrett). I know a lot of people at my club take Trkman's foundations and my friend did recallers with her dog (he was shy/liked to run away) and loved it. Recallers isn't an 'agility' class though per say. I plan on doing some online puppy/foundations classes with Nextdog for sure. Our club sometimes has agility classes for 3-10 month olds but not all the time.


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