# Got another point!



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Yesterday we went down to New Jersey for the Hunterdon show. It's only a few minutes from my breeder's house, and the judge is a Welshie person, so she convinced me to go. Our competition was a class dog who is Watson's half brother (from his mom's litter last year) and we beat him! He was a nice dog too. We came in third in the breed ring to a class bitch, Ginger, and the special (Watson's cousin; their fathers are littermates), but that's ok. He was fine in the ring until Ginger was sent in front of us, and then he lost his marbles. We think she was about to go into heat or something because all of the males were very interested in her. It was pretty funny to see Watson go from well behaved to nut case. Even the steward was laughing at him. lol Overall he was a very good boy though.

His breeder was there with some friends and it was a nice Welshie party. The woman who owned Watson's brother, and Ginger's owner, were very nice (the special was with a handler and he didn't chat with us). Another Welshie from Watson's breeder's lines got his RN that day too. It was fun to hang around and have people to talk to, and especially to check out different styles of dog. There is lot of variation in Welshies, especially compared to the ESS we saw who all look so similar. Everyone agreed that Watson is a nice dog and won't be hard to finish, especially because of how well he gaits around the ring. Now I understand what the commentators at Westminster mean when they say a dog looks like he loves to show. Some of the other dogs just looked bored, or too laid back, but Watson is pretty eye catching, and he is obviously having a good time no matter what activity he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures or video since my husband forgot to take some (and we couldn't find the decent camera anyway). I think our next show will be over Labor Day weekend, again in New Jersey.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Congratulations! I wish I understood conformation a little better! All I know is that you need a certain number of points and majors to finish a championship, but all of the fine points are beyond my understanding!

Happy for you! That's great!

My breeders have chosen a handler and negotiated her fees for me. I guess I will be joining in the conformation battle soon! The handler has to finish the dog she is currently campaigning and then we're up, doG help us...


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## Cattledogfanatic (Sep 18, 2011)

Congrats! I actually saw Welsh Springers the other day at the training club I was training at. Gorgeous dogs!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Congratulations!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

trainingjunkie said:


> Congratulations! I wish I understood conformation a little better! All I know is that you need a certain number of points and majors to finish a championship, but all of the fine points are beyond my understanding!
> 
> Happy for you! That's great!
> 
> My breeders have chosen a handler and negotiated her fees for me. I guess I will be joining in the conformation battle soon! The handler has to finish the dog she is currently campaigning and then we're up, doG help us...


Good luck! You're lucky to have a handler - I kind of want to pay someone to just finish him, but as long as the shows are relatively close by (like 2 hours or less) it's not so bad doing it myself. We're going to have a hard time finding majors though and then I worry when we finally find one, I'll blow it by being a poor handler. Haha I didn't get him with the intention to show, and planned to do lower level obedience and rally, but he needs to mature first. I figure the shows are a good way to get him out and about, and comfortable paying attention to me in the ring on a basic level. 

I honestly don't know much more than you beyond the number of points I need, and that I need two majors. For Welshies, I only have to beat 3 other dogs for a 3 point major, but it can be hard to find shows with more than 1 or 2 other class dogs entered, and of course you don't know how many are entered until after you have paid your money. Right now we have 3 points, which is a decent start for only doing 4 shows (in the first, there were no other class dogs entered). I'm still figuring out the finer details of point counting in cases where your dog goes best of breed, or best of winners, or whatever, in case that happens. There are some decent guides online that explain things. The shows I signed up for on Labor Day weekend have a good chance of offering a major based on past entry data, so fingers crossed. 





Cattledogfanatic said:


> Congrats! I actually saw Welsh Springers the other day at the training club I was training at. Gorgeous dogs!


Thanks! I think they're pretty good looking too ;-)



sassafras said:


> Congratulations!


Thanks! I'm proud of my little puppy.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Woo-hoo! Way to go Watson! 

I have heard that the whole points system for conformation can be so complicated that some people have Apps for it. It sounds like Watson is off to a great start!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I still don't fully understand the point system, and I've read about it and listened to people discussing points at shows. It is complicated!

Congrats on the three points so far! Watson is a lovely dog and will be a very handsome champion soon enough.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks, Cran and packetsmom!

The points for Welshies are probably easier than most. In the two regions I show in, points are basically the number of male dogs I beat. So 1 dog is 1 point, and 3 dogs would be 3 points. That's the minimum schedule, so they obviously aren't a very common breed around here. It gets trickier if you have to remember a complicated point schedule, or if you switch regions and the schedules change. And generally if there are specials entered I'm not going to win the breed, so I just have to count the number of male dogs he beat in the classes and that's how many points he has. It's pretty straight forward. There's definitely the potential for more confusing situations though. I have heard that some people continue to enter their dogs in the classes, even if they think they have enough points, because AKC hasn't updated the dog to championship yet and they don't want to miss another chance to get points.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You're "lucky" your counts are so low! I have to pay attention to the counts for two different states, since I show in both 

Congrats on your three points thus far! Good work!

For those that don't understand conformation, there are several different classes you can enter first. You need to win your class in order to go on to Winners. Winners is where you get your points, so when somebody says they went winner's dog or winner's bitch, they got points. How many depends on the entry.

Best of Breed (BOB) is the specials class. The winner's dog and winner's bitch will compete against the specials for BOB/BOS. Best of Winners is awarded to either WD or WB, nobody else.

A judge can "cross over" points through BOW. For example, if there is a 4 point major in dogs and only 2 points in bitches, if the judge gives the winner's bitch best of winners, instead of getting two points, she gets the four point major (so both winner's dog and winner's bitch got a major).

You can also get a major by going BOB from the classes over specials, or by winning a group 1st (if there was a major in any of the other breeds showing in group that day).

Clear as mud!


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Xeph that is where I got confused.. Major didn't go BOB, the special did, but he gave the point to Major for going Best of Winners WD.. lol not to mention about counting how many where there and how many were needed lol.. That is why Mary had to come with me and just get in the right line, run around in a circle and have a good time 

Congratulations elrohwen and Waston "totally awesome"


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Congratulations! 

Elrohwen & Xeph - Thanks for the further explanations of conformation points. Every little bit helps!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Xeph, I think the low counts are a double edged sword. In a sense it makes it waaayyy easier to finish a dog. There's no way I would be doing this if I owned an English springer or a Golden. On the other hand, it means more traveling to find a major, and often people have to convince their friends to sign up so there are enough for a major (this seems especially common with bitches). Then there is all of the snarking about how So-and-so set up a major for her dog, by inviting dogs she knew she could beat. Haha. Watson's sister is actually up in Canada right now because some breeder needed another bitch around for her dogs to get majors. I'm hopeful that there might be a major in the Labor Day cluster this year; even if we don't win, it will be nice to see where we fall in a larger group of dogs. Then next year I'm going to West Springfield, MA for the July 4th cluster and my goal is to pick up at least one major over the 4 days. The breeders at this show said he should be a pretty easy dog to finish, so I just have to not screw it up with my poor handling. 

Patricia, thanks! It seems like judges will commonly put up a dog as Best of Winners so that both Winners can get points. In this show, there were no other class bitches, so the only way the one girl could get a point is if she beat Watson for Best of Winners, which is exactly what the judge did. It does get confusing though. I've done it a couple times now and I mostly know where to be and when, but I'm very glad I took handling classes first. And there typically aren't a lot of dogs to keep track of for point counting - even the biggest shows don't generally have more than 7-10 Welshies entered.

Cookieface, thanks! And Xeph provided a great explanation.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Congratulations! 

I agree ... Xeph gave a great explanation. I too get confused on all of it. Lol!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Abbylynn said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> I agree ... Xeph gave a great explanation. I too get confused on all of it. Lol!


Thanks! He did a really great job in the ring.


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