# Vet Said "No" To Canidae for Lab Puppy...



## Stangs55 (Mar 25, 2008)

First of all, Hi. I've been reading this forum and others for several weeks now. Thanks for all the great information.

Our new 14 week white lab went to the vet for the first time since being in our care and received a good clean bill of health. However, after spending several hours reading and reading about dog food and feeling quite confident in my choice to feed her Canidae ALS instead of the Purina Pro Plan Puppy we were given...the vet told me that she would recommend a Large Breed Puppy food instead. Her reasoning was that the Canidae likely didn't have enough protein for a growing lab. And after coming home, I see that the Canidae ALS only has 24% protein compared to 26-27% in most other Large Breed Puppy food...heck, even other standard puppy food has at least 26%.

So now I'm second guessing this decision. I had initially gone back and forth between Canidae ALS and Innova Large Puppy, but decided on the Canidae after I read some people complaining about the stool smelling more foul on the Innova--that and it just seems to be less well accepted around the net. 

So...Is she wrong?

Thanks!

Oh...and here are a couple pics of Daisy:


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

I believe that the point is to have less protein for a larger breed dog...a LBP food is recommended over regular puppy food because it has less protein. You don't want a large dog to grow too fast. That is why you are supposed to feed more of the Canidae ALS to puppies, so that they are getting enough nutrients to grow. 

Hopefully someone else will weigh in on this, but I'm pretty sure that protein levels are the exact reason you WANT to be feeding a food like Canidae for a lab puppy.

Your pup is adorable by the way!


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Unfortuantly, there are some vets out there who will push their food down your throat, science diet or purina, because one of those companies paid for them to go to vet school. I would continue to feed canidae, my vet had never even heard of canidae till I told him that I was feeding Snoopy canidae.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

Your puppies are beautiful. I also agree with a large breed puppy food for the first nine months or so of the pups life--but that does not mean sacrificing quality. Innova makes a quality large breed puppy food which is what I used for the first nine months (in addition to raw). Canidae is an excellent excellent dog food and if it came down to Purina or Iams or Eukaneuba or other subpar large breed puppy food than I would go with Canidae. If you go with Innova Large breed puppy food(and some raw) I would say you are making a good choice. I have a very good article on the benefits of some large breed puppy food but I got this new computer and it is saved on my old computer which now takes about an hour to turn on--I will try and get it but I am sure if you do al search you will find info on this topic.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

I must be really bad if its MORE protein...lol When my Mastiff was a puppy, I fed him Eagle Pack Holistic Select Large & Giant Breed Puppy...with only 23% protein. He's on Chicken Soup Large breed and its still only 23% protein. Their growth needs to slow and steady...

I've never fed Canidae or Innova (yet ) but have heard good things about both brands.

Your Lab is adorable BTW...I have a black Lab named Eddie as well as my Mastiff...he's a hoot


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## caveman (Mar 16, 2008)

i was a nutro natural choice user for years. i recently switched to canidae, no problems. 

the stools are a bit firmer, and he likes the food!

when i got my mastiff, the breeders told me to feed large breed adult food. too much protein will cause them to grow too fast for their bones/joints.

i also know a great dane breeder that agrees with this.

alot of the large breed foods contain supplements to help the joints, after reading a bit i found the amount of supplements wasn't enough to matter to alot of large breeds?

so now i use canidae and a seperate hip/joint supplement with vitamin c.


vaughn


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Well, I own Rottweilers and I agree with feeding an good quality adult food to puppies VS puppy foods which will encourage a puppy to grow too fast and could cause joint problems. I personally rotate foods but I feed my puppy all adult formulas of several brands and Canidae is one of them He is now 68 pounds at 6 months. No problems with NOT growing. LOL


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Gah, is he really, Inga?!? That's just crazy...Carsten is HUGE!


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## swissypup (Mar 7, 2008)

Daisy is gorgeous! I have a 12 week old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, also names Daisy (love that name!). She's a large breed and needs less protein while she is developing. Giving large breed puppies too much protein can cause them to grow too quickly and create stress on their joints. I'm surprised that your ver didn't tell you this! We tried several different foods with Daisy; Merrick Puppy Plate, Eagle Pack Large Breed Puppy. She is on Nature's Variety Prairie Chicken Formula and we are very very happy with it. Canidae is a very high quality food too. Check out www.dogfoodanalysis.com it's a really good site.

Good luck!


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## Sugar Daddy Otis (Jan 9, 2008)

I feed my big boy Mastiff Canidae Lamb and Rice- it only has 21% protein and he LOVES it!! Comes out the other end much smaller, also-a big + becasue that means he is absorbing most of it into his body and it dosen't just get pooped out!! Also great it's less I have to scoop!!


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## Ony'sMom (Sep 1, 2007)

I'm with the majority here, and like Inga, I feed my PUPPY an adult food. I have come to the conclusion that puppy food is really just a gimick. My Vet attempted to argue with me about it and when she realized that I wasn't going to budge and go down to a cheaper food made for puppies, she gave up  I feed Innova's Evo Small Bites, and my pup is growing just fine, in fact, he was 11lbs on the 10th, and this past Saturday (22nd) he was at 13 lbs, an average of a pound a week! While the food I have chosen does have a high protein count, it's also grain free. He's needed to gain weight, but he's not growing super fast, which is good.

I think that if you're happy with Canidae, stick with it. Keep in mind that a lot of Vet's don't know jack about nutrition. Just like most MD's (as RonE once said) are great, but if they want you to get really in debth with your diet, they'll send you to a Nutritionist. There's not Nutritionist for dogs, so we have to do our own research and come to our own conclusions.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

FriendsOfZoe said:


> I believe that the point is to have less protein for a larger breed dog...a LBP food is recommended over regular puppy food because it has less protein. You don't want a large dog to grow too fast. That is why you are supposed to feed more of the Canidae ALS to puppies, so that they are getting enough nutrients to grow.
> 
> Hopefully someone else will weigh in on this, but I'm pretty sure that protein levels are the exact reason you WANT to be feeding a food like Canidae for a lab puppy.
> 
> Your pup is adorable by the way!


This is exactly right...

Unfortunately most vets AREN'T nutritionists!!! (Look at the diets they offer in their clinics...) Anyway...

With a fast growing large breed puppy, you don't want so much protien in the diet, as it can cause joint\growth plate issues...THIS is something a vet SHOULD know!!! Lol!


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

Don't forget to look at calcium content of food as that could also contribute to increase/rapid bone growth


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

I have two vets. My regular vet has never even heard of timberwolf organics. He doesn't know anything about the newer more hollistic dog foods on the market. My other vet was recommended to me by my puppy's breeder. She has been helping me with posting Ollie's ears. She feeds large breed solid gold puppy mixed with natures variety raw to her 9 month old puppy. She tried to explain this nonsense about how an all life stage food would ruin Ollie's growth. Ollie is now 5 months old and has been on timberwolf organics for the last two months. She has been growing slow and steady ever sense.


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## Stangs55 (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for all the great input so far! 

As for the Vets are not nutritionist comment...I couldn't agree more. I am actually a physician (the human kind) and I am well aware of the advice that can be given by people who shouldn't...well, we'll just leave it at that--hence my skepticism in the original post. 

After looking into it this high/low protein debate for large breed pups, I saw that Innova's Large Breed Puppy mix (my #2 if you guys convinced me to stop Candidae) has a protein content of 24%, while the Regular Innova Puppy Mix has 26%. The fact that the standard Candidae ALS has 24% just like the Innova Large breed puppy made me feel alot better...and may have settled this debate between the two foods in my mind.

Her stools have also been firmer and softer since going on Candidae...even during the transition period. Not to mention her energy level has increased...if that's possible for a puppy. I'm just a little concerned that you do feed her less on it and that doesn't exactly make her happy. She's currently 15 lbs and that falls right in the middle of the recommended 1.5-2 cups/day per Candidae's puppy recommendations. She would eat 4x that if I let her and sucks down what I give her without taking a breath...but I'm guessing I just need to stick with what Candidae says...eh?....eh? (<-that was not rhetorical  )

Thanks!


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## Aussiefan (Jan 21, 2007)

I think your vet, like many just want to push their own food. My substitute vet (since my vet that me and my family have been seeing since the late 1970's had some medical issues and was on leave for a little while) did the same thing, glad my normal vet is back and healthy, he doesn't pull that crap on me, lol All my dogs have always done awesome all their life with Canidae.


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## JRiegler (Mar 10, 2008)

Stangs55 said:


> I'm just a little concerned that you do feed her less on it and that doesn't exactly make her happy. She's currently 15 lbs and that falls right in the middle of the recommended 1.5-2 cups/day per Candidae's puppy recommendations. She would eat 4x that if I let her and sucks down what I give her without taking a breath...but I'm guessing I just need to stick with what Candidae says...eh?....eh? (<-that was not rhetorical  )
> 
> Thanks!


Don't be concerned. If your lab is anything like mine, she will vacuum the food out of her dish and come begging for more. Some friends wonder why I don't leave food in his dish all the time, so he can eat whenever he wants to. I just tell them if they knew my dog, they would know that whatever goes in that dish, leaves the dish in the next 20 seconds.

I see a lot of really overweight labs in my area, and whenever I ask about their diets I find that the owners are over feeding them because they will continue to eat as long as food is presented to them.


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

Of course a vet would say not to use Canidae or a few other good brands- when would they see you? Yearly for vaccines or heartworm test? 
( okay- shuts off the sarcasium response..) .. Seriously=- all the large breed foods I have seen are imbalenced in calcium and phosphorus. That imbalence makes other problems- including puppy lameness or tarter on teeth etc. Good foods need to be as balenced in calcium and phosphorus as possible. Protein levels in dog food is not just meat proteins but also muscle protein and if you look at the label on Canidae you will see is a good mix of both meat and muscle. 
Very few vets have studied nutrition. Only looking at the medical and not nutrition..


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Vets get their nutritional education from DOG FOOD COMPANIES, specifically Iams and Hills(Science Diet)

24% protien is FINE for a large breed where you want to control growth, whatis just as important is the AVAILABILITY and QUALITY of the protien source. The first TWO ingredients should be a NAMED meat or meat meal, NO corn products, soy or wheat (cheap sources of carb and protien and common allergens) or by products. Oils should be from fish and or high quality plant sources (flaxseed OIL).


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## zannie (Mar 12, 2008)

alot of vets still have old school thinking on food or they want to sell thier own,i think canidae is a great choice and if i were you i'd stick with it,large breeds do better with a low protien...


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## echo8287 (Jul 5, 2007)

The breeder gave me puppy chow and my vet sent my wife home with a small bag of Science Diet , for my 2 Mini Schnauzers. From what I read a lot of vets must be attacked by the Science Diet company, just like drug reps at the doctors office. 
I let them finish those 2 small bags and put them on Canidae ALS, some Evo, and some Orijen fresh fish. They are 1 year old last week and doing very well. Real healthy looking, good coat, they like their food, and have more than enough energy for 2-22 pounders. Use what you think is best, and watch your dog closely. You can feel their body at the ribs and tell if they have enough to eat or not. That is one beautiful puppy you have there. David


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## BIG JAKE (Apr 3, 2008)

Your vet is wrong.
I just bought a english mastiff and after talking to numerous vets and going to numerous websites, I found out that you need to feed your large breed puppy a food that is not as high in protein (either a quality adult food or a quality large breed puppy food) as you would any other puppy. You do not want your dog to grow to fast. 
Large breed dogs need to grow slowly, this way they will not develop any joint problems that affect many overweight dogs. Large breed pups are going to grow huge any way so why rush them when they are 3-9 months old. 
My pup is 4 months old and the breeder I bought him from had him on Nutro Large Breed Puppy. I kept him on this until a few friends said he saw something on the news about Nutro (negative). I am in the process of switching him anyway from Nutro Large Breed puppy formula to Canidae All Life Stages because even though he looks great and is growing at a nice pace (65 lbs.-4 months), I have researched that it is better to have him grow slowly. Nutro has about 28% protein where I believe Canidae has 22-24%. For a english mastiff, many breeders are recommending Canidae ALS.


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## happydog (Apr 5, 2008)

Love's_Sophie said:


> Unfortunately most vets AREN'T nutritionists!!! (Look at the diets they offer in their clinics...) Anyway...


I just wanted to offer my two-cents as to the comments about Vets NOT being Nutritionists. You all are ABSOLUTELY right! I am actually a current Pre-Vet student(and am very interested in nutrition), and I can tell you that the only nutrition class a Vet takes is in their undergraduate coursework...and may or may not be ANIMAL nutrition, dependent upon their particular program. A DVM is just that...a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine. I know of a girl--and I am in pursuit of this option as well--who completed a Master's degree in Nutrition while working towards her DVM...which makes her nutritionally competent. But no, one class in one semester early in 8 years of coursework definitely does not make a nutritionist. Okay, I will step off of my soapbox now, lol.


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