# Should I get a Wolfdog? Your opinion on Wolfdogs?



## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

I've loved wolves ever since I was five years old, they were an obsession of mine for quite some time. I had a Labrador Retriever puppy about six years ago but he died of parvo a month after my family purchased him. I've mostly been raised around feral cats but all my pets are gone. I started getting interested into the Dog Training business again, which was something I dreamed about pursuing as a child. I plan on getting a dog in four months or possibly sooner. And the Wolfdog (Wolf Hybrid) has been the type I've been wanting for quite awhile. My father had a Wolfdog who was 87% Timber Wolf, 13% German Shepherd. And he said that his Wolf was extremely friendly and well behaved. 

However I am concerned I've heard so many negative things, mostly because people aren't experienced. Or don't give the K9 the proper time. My biggest concern is trainability. Can they be trained? And not only trained the basics but also advanced training. I want a dog that can take on all the training I plan on giving him, I was definitely thinking about a Border Collie, but the Wolf haunts me and I impulsively want it.

I am home 24/7 and we have two acres of yard, one is fully fenced we also have a large dog cage. Now one thing that really bothers me, is that behind the fence in my backyard is a farm. The farmer every so often releases some cows in his yard. I am worried that if I get a Wolfdog he may want to kill the cows and some how manage. What makes this so awful is that the farmer is extremely temperamental and once my neighbours chickens got in his yard and started yelling so he shot them and put their bodies on my neighbours doorstep. This frightens me that if I get a wolf he might be in the same situation as the chickens if he messes with the farmers cows. 

So what are your thoughts? I personally feel like wolves are very misunderstood. And this is a huge reason why I want a Wolfdog to prove to everyone that they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. And that with a lot of training and love the big bad wolf could melt into a strawberry scented candle. But could this work out or am I just dreaming too much?


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## Luxorien (Jun 11, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the puppy. That's rough. :\

I share your admiration for these creatures and I agree that the idea of having one is very tempting. However, if you look at the research that has been done on this, there are SIGNIFICANT behavioral differences between dogs and wolves. Is it possible to get a hybrid that is more "dog-like"? Sure. But you are really rolling the dice on that one. Yes, they can be trained. But you can't always treat them like a dog. I say this not as someone with any personal experience, but just from reading some of the research and watching interviews with professionals who interact with these animals. So I can't claim any particular expertise, but I strongly recommend that you look into the science of the behavioral differences. Wolves are also extremely powerful animals, with a bite force exceeding even the most powerful breeds of dogs, so there is NO room for error.

If you are really sure this is something you want to do, I'd get more dog-owning experience first. I myself would not feel comfortable raising an animal like this until I'd raised several large dogs (and even then...yikes).

The only silver lining here is that a lot of the animals that are passed off as "wolfdogs" are just husky mixes. Real wolfdogs are pretty rare, from what I understand.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

What about breeds which look similar to wolves such as the tamaskan or northen inuit dog?
Or wolfdogs classed as breeds such as the Czechoslovakian wolfdog?
These can be much more trainable depending on the breed possibly.

There are people who work with wolfdogs for a living, they could give you some detailed help. Im sure these places would be happy to help, such as http://texaswolfdogproject.org/


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

I've considered several breeds with similar appearance to that of a wolf. But its still not the same. I don't know maybe its the rarity that attracts me. I was really in love with the Gerberian Shepsky but I have a very rough time finding any in my state. I have more luck finding actual Wolf hybrids then Gerberian Shepskies.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

If its the rarity that attracts you, then wouldn't it be more special to get a dog which is difficult to find? You say you would have more luck finding a wolf hybrid, wouldn't that make it less rare?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

True high contents act like wolves, not like dogs. That means that one would likely be a flight risk and a risk to livestock and would not be able to be trained like a border collie or _ever_ let off leash. Even basic training could be a struggle; advanced obedience is a pipe dream. You would need proper containment (a dog cage would not cut it; you would need a zoo-style enclosure, large and with a roof and reinforced dig guards) and to _heavily_ research high-content care and winter wolf syndrome. 

Please keep in mind that many "wolfdogs" don't actually contain any wolf. There are many, many scammers out there, and many will even give you fradulent "papers." If it acts like a dog, friendly and trainable, the chance of an animal being a true high content is extremely low. If it looks more like a dog than like a wolf, it is likely low or no-content.

I don't have any personal experience with wolfdogs, but there are a couple members of this forum who do. Hopefully one of them will see your thread. In the meantime, research, research, research.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Don't look for "Gerberian Shepskies" then, just look for Siberian husky mixes. GSD x Husky mixes are super super common, finding them by a specific designer name may be more difficult. 

Wolfdogs are not right for the average owner. You need more than just a fence and a "large dog cage" if you plan to own a high content wolfdog. You will need a proper enclosure, and don't plan on your pet living in your home. Your father's 87% wolfdog that is friendly and well behaved is probably not 87% wolf. Misrepresentation is common. Often low content or plain dogs are sold as high content wolfdogs. Which leads to people purchasing actual high content wolfdogs thinking they can handle it because the wolfdog will act just like their friend's "wolfdog" that slept on the couch and was friendly with children, cats, and other dogs. I recommend you do a lot more research and get experience with actual dogs (and maybe some hands on experience at a wolfdog sanctuary) before committing to a wolfdog.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Remaru said:


> Your father's 87% wolfdog that is friendly and well behaved is probably not 87% wolf.


My fathers Wolfdog did have wolf in him, he should me a picture and he looked just like one not only that but he was 120 pounds and had to be tied with a huge chain that was like three inches thick. There was definitely no doubt that Wolfer had Wolf in him. But his personality does some very unusual. Thats the only odd thing, you would think he would have a temper or something.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Wolf dogs don't act like dogs. At all. I have no personal experience, but after watching videos and listening to other people talk, they are nothing like dogs. They are not easy to train, but it can be done. They aren't going to do agility or obedience, if that's what you're after. They will never behave like a dog. You would have to build a special enclosure to keep them (which is probably not cheap or quick) that looks like something you would see in a zoo. There are "exotic animal" laws in many states for wolf dogs. There are some wolf dog owners (real wolf dogs) on this forum that probably have more detailed information.

If you "impulsively" want something, then it is probably not a good idea to get something. I think you should get more experience with regular dogs before you attempt to own a wolf dog. There are plenty of dogs that look like wolves and are far less risky. Do your research and talk to people who own real wolf dogs before you take that kind of leap.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

A true high content is usually unmistakable. Most people have no idea what a wolf really looks like. I had a big malamute/collie mix with floppy ears and I constantly had people telling me he looked like a wolf (he did not). An "87% wolf" dog would not act like a dog. It would not be a housepet. A chain in the yard would not be good enough.

Check out these sites:

http://www.saintfrancissanctuary.org/forms/ID Guide.pdf
http://wolfpark.org/animals/hybrids/sloan-poster/
http://www.texx-wolf-tails.com/highcontentwolfdogs.htm


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Crantastic said:


> Most people have no idea what a wolf really looks like. I had a big malamute/collie mix with floppy ears and I constantly had people telling me he looked like a wolf (he did not).


Personally I find if very easy to tell a wolf from a dog, you can see it in their face, eyes, head shape, ears, paws, tails etc. I don't get why people assume everything with a shepherd like look has ''wolf'' in it. Shows you how lowly educated our society is.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Make sure you fully understand your local regulations on the subject. Also, make sure you check out your homeowner's insurance policies. Most of them frown on keeping wild animals, or at least make you buy a large rider policy. And homeowner's insurance is sort of a thing you need. 

A wolf wouldn't have a "temper". That's really a dog thing. Wolves are highly predatory though. I suspect your farmer neighbor would be extremely unhappy if he heard you had a wolf, so don't be spreading that around. He might manage to slip some poisoned meat over the fence or something. So make sure you can deal with the reactions you might get.

Also, rabies vaccines aren't legally recognized in wild animals or wild hybrids. In some places this can be a big-freaking-deal. Make sure you know the local laws about that.


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## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

Reminded me of a Patricia McConnell blog post from a few years back and I think would be worth a read, for perspective: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/the-tragedy-of-wolf-dogs

It's dicey at best and if things don't go perfectly, someone could get seriously injured and/or the wolfdog gets put down (or spend the remainder of its life behind some heavy bars)--steep price for the wolfdog to pay. I personally have a hard time justifying much less supporting an industry that breed wolfdogs for financial incentives and too many stories end in tragedies. Wolves belong in the wild. Dogs belong with people. Wolfdogs belong in neither of those.

In my opinion, if you really want to spend time working with wolves, find some wildlife organization or wolf sanctuary to volunteer and spend time with.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Wolffee said:


> So what are your thoughts? I personally feel like wolves are very misunderstood. And this is a huge reason why I want a Wolfdog to prove to everyone that they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. And that with a lot of training and love the big bad wolf could melt into a strawberry scented candle. But could this work out or am I just dreaming too much?


You are dreaming too much. It sounds cool because wolves are cool. No amount of training is going to make your Wolf a "sweetheart". 

I agree with volunteering with wolves in some kind of wildlife sanctuary. Find a Wolfdog rescue near you to learn more about them in person. An animal like that should be FAR from an impulsive buy.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

> And that with a lot of training and love the big bad wolf could melt into a strawberry scented candle.


Hehe, I didn't see that part. Um no. A wolf is a wolf. A wolf will never be a Golden Retriever. . .that's why humans bred Golden Retrievers---they wanted a "melted strawberry-scented candle" type of canine. Wolves aren't gregarious or cuddly. They're wild. They may deign to be friends with you but they aren't going to fawn all over you like some dogs. No matter how much love and/or training they receive.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Wolffee said:


> I am home 24/7 and we have two acres of yard, one is fully fenced we also have a large dog cage.


Do you yourself own this property? Can you reasonably expect to be living on it, with a similar amount of free time, for the next fifteen years or so?



> So what are your thoughts? I personally feel like wolves are very misunderstood. And this is a huge reason why I want a Wolfdog to prove to everyone that they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. And that with a lot of training and love the big bad wolf could melt into a strawberry scented candle. But could this work out or am I just dreaming too much?


My thought is that if you want a strawberry-scented candle, get a strawberry-scented candle.

The average dog cage or fence doesn't hold a determined dog, let alone a wolf. Yes, a wolf hybrid would be liable to prey on neighboring livestock. No, you're not going to be doing high level dog training with a high-content wolf hybrid. Have you researched your community and state's laws? Dog-wolf hybrids may not be legal for private ownership there. Here (Alaska) it is illegal to breed or own them.

My recommendation is that before you even consider a hybrid you a)get a less-tractable bred of actual dog, and see how you do with containing and training that, first and b)volunteer at a wolf/wolf-dog sanctuary regularly for quite some length of time.


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

Check local and state laws, they have changed a lot in several states in the last few years.

A wolf or hybrid is not something to take lightly, know someone who has had them for as long as I can remember, and while yes the can bond with the family, you are never walking them in public, and you need some very extreme fencing and pens, there's a pretty high cost there, along with food costs, and the need to see what your insurance while say or if they will even cover.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Thanks everyone for your advice and information it was helpful yet disappointing at the same time. Yes I have done some online research during my adolescence years. And used to study wolves a lot when I was real little. I think I should have explained my situation a little further. I wasn't planing on getting a high content wolf, maybe 50% - 25% which still is a lot of wolf to handle I get that. I was wanting something that I could take to group classes, impress my mentor with, and take to dog parks, walks etc. The whole nine yards. Maybe thats a lot to expect from a wild animal, maybe its even impossible, but can it be done? This isn't something I just thought about over night. This is something I thought about my whole life, not just a dream but a long time desire and passion. And I could go and help out at some Wildlife Wolf Rescue Program. But I still need a dog and maybe it would be a better idea going for something like a Cocker Spaniel, I mean yeah it looks kinda silly a woman with little dog experience getting a Wolfdog. Idk guess i'll have to put more thought and research into but I have a bad outlook on learning from online. Or believing anything they tell you because it usually seems wrong to me. Thats why I went on here to learn from people who've may have worked with wolves or wolfdogs. The only thing positive I seem to have is my fathers opinion, everyone else seems strongly against it. But I appreciate everything you all said! And I will look more into it.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm certainly not an expert, but if you're going for as little as 25% content (which I'm guessing you would need to to be able to do the things you want to do) you're going to have very little wolfishness. In which case, why get one at all? With all the sketchiness around hybrid breeders and legal issues and etc.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

ireth0 said:


> I'm certainly not an expert, but if you're going for as little as 25% content (which I'm guessing you would need to to be able to do the things you want to do) you're going to have very little wolfishness. In which case, why get one at all? With all the sketchiness around hybrid breeders and legal issues and etc.


 I'm really not sure why theres something special about it, and comforting at the same time. Two days ago I went to the store and saw some breeders selling Wolf-Chow mix pups. The owner had the mom with him too, and said she was full blooded Canadian Black Wolf. She was not. You could look at her fur, it was longer. Her tail was fluffy and more Border Collie like then Wolf. She did have a wolf look to her face and arms and you could tell there was some in her especially her ears, her ears were very wolf-like. The father was Chow with something Unknown mixed with him. He only wanted $100 for a pup. I thought it was still a good deal for even a quarter wolf. 
The weird thing was how the owner tried convincing us she was pure wolf, when she obviously wasn't. She looked almost exactly like the Wolf-Chow mix then she did a full blooded Canadian Wolf. Just like this picture but with a more Wolf face. Still kinda want one they were hard to resist


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

You could always try working yourself up to it, get breeds which can give you valuable experience in the right areas. I honestly don't think you would be able to impress you mentors with a wolfdog.
Usually wolfdogs are mixed with northern breeds such as huskies and malamutes, and sometimes german shepherds from what I could find out, and northen breeds generally aren't that easy to train for obedience as it is, let alone adding a wild undomesticated animal to the mix. 

You have so much to prepare yourself for this and give yourself the experience you need, it would be a shame if an impulsive decision was made and it went wrong, especially with a dog you have been wanting your whole life.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

CiElBie said:


> You could always try working yourself up to it, get breeds which can give you valuable experience in the right areas. I honestly don't think you would be able to impress you mentors with a wolfdog.
> Usually wolfdogs are mixed with northern breeds such as huskies and malamutes, and sometimes german shepherds from what I could find out, and northen breeds generally aren't that easy to train for obedience as it is, let alone adding a wild undomesticated animal to the mix.
> 
> You have so much to prepare yourself for this and give yourself the experience you need, it would be a shame if an impulsive decision was made and it went wrong, especially with a dog you have been wanting your whole life.


True. But do you think 25% wolf would make that much of a difference? Especially if it was mixed with some really good breeds.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Getting a wolfdog is just not a good idea with the aspirations that you have. You want to impress a mentor? Get a dog that will help you see your own potential. Huskies make great pets for people willing to work hard to keep them entertained, but even they can't be reliable at dog parks sometimes. Trying to do what you want to do with a wolfdog is too much of a risk. Someone could get hurt, a dog could get hurt, you could get sued. Too risky. I understand your want to impress people, I really do, and wolves are certainly very fascinating, but to get even an assumed wolfdog would be playing with fire. 

Also, people capitalize on the hype. That dog doesn't look anything like a wolf, even 25%. Dont get played by a shady breeder wanting to make a buck. Research and find a nice, well bred dog that you CAN meet your goals with.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

My opinion is people should not be breeding wolf dogs. They are not "pets," they are not domesticated. 

But that's just my opinion.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

Wolffee said:


> True. But do you think 25% wolf would make that much of a difference? Especially if it was mixed with some really good breeds.


http://wolfdogeducation.com/content breakdown
Best explanation I can give really. It would depend on luck.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Oh thanks,  going to read it now. I just found some other helpful websites and breeders too.
http://www.pupsplus.com/whp_004.htm
http://www.yadkinwolfden.com


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

Wolffee said:


> Oh thanks,  going to read it now. I just found some other helpful websites and breeders too.
> http://www.pupsplus.com/whp_004.htm
> http://www.yadkinwolfden.com


I would not trust either of the breeders in these links personally. They may be just fine for all I know, but I wouldn't trust them for sure. 
Nothing to do with wolfdogs, but generally in terms of being a breeder, I wouldn't go there and would look for another breeder.

EDIT:
Please do not trust the second link especially, there is so much wrong with it, I suggest not even thinking about it.
http://www.blustagtamaskan.com/
I found this webpage by accident, its the exact same website replicated but with Tamaskans instead.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

That picture is of a dog. I don't see any wolf in it. I would stop messing with those people completely. You can find a little bit of wolf in any dog.

Has anyone ever seen Fatal Attractions, that TV show on Animal Planet? That's what happens when someone forgets their wild animal is a wild animal and starts to think of them as a strawberry scented candle. Humans domesticated animals for a reason. If I were OP, I would get a Husky, or a Malamute, or a northern "wolfy" breed that I could take on walks, and to dog parks, and do dog stuff with. If you love wolves and think they are cool, admire them at the national park in their natural habitat, not in a zoo-like cage in your back yard because you wanted to impress your mentors at puppy class. "Implusively wanting" and "wanting to impress people" is frankly, quite selfish to the animal. I'm not trying to be vindictive, but what you wrote raises red flags for me. Many of these people on this forum telling you to scrap your wolf dog plans have had years of experience with many dogs of different breeds with different issues, and I think the closest many would get to one is admiring from a distance with an experienced handler nearby! Listen, and get the Cocker Spaniel!


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Honestly, you have a farmer next door, you want a dog to take to dog parks and train in obedience to "impress your mentor", and you have little to no dog experience. I'm not sure a northern breed is right for you. You let your husky out in a yard with just a regular fence and chances are good that your dog is going over that fence and your neighbor will shoot it for running or killing his cattle. Adding 25% wolf may or may not make a huge difference but I don't think it is worth the gamble, particularly when you do not seem prepared to put in the research to find a legitimate breeder or seem to know what you are actually looking at. Chances are good the wolf x chow puppies are chow x husky (and who knows what else) the picture you posted doesn't look wolf at all. I could buy a dozen "wolfdogs" that have 0% wolf in them off of Craigslist and Facebook right now. Some of them even look wolfy.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Wolfs aren't pets, and most wolfdogs aren't pets either. To be honest I'm kind of put off by the fact you'd like one because of the rarity. I'd suggest looking into wolfy looking dog breeds. 

And if you'd like something that has a very small percentage of wolf in it and is also very rare, go check out Saarloos wolfdogs and Czechoslovakian wolfdogs. They are dog breeds, created at one point by crossing wolves with German shepherds. Saarloos wolfdogs have more wolfy traits than Czech wolfdogs and lack biddability, are kind of skittish, very wary of strange people/situations. Czech wolfdogs tend to be more biddable and confident. Both are independent thinkers and look much like a wolf, but are very much dogs, bond very strongly to their owners and do not need any sort of special containment you wouldn't use for other dogs. 









Saarloos wolfdog Skog av Seppalaska. 









Czechoslovakian wolfdog C'Kiss Wolf of Roderick Sodar.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

The dog you posted actually reminds me a lot of the black/dark Eurasiers I've met. Interestingly, the Eurasier was originally supposed to be named the Wolf Chow, but the Chow people got uppity about the new breed having "Chow" anywhere in the name. The "Wolf Chow" name, however, was not because they're Wolf/Chow crosses, the breed was founded on Chows and Keeshonds - which were also called... Wolfspitz! I wonder if there are people using the originally intended Wolf Chow naming, either trying to pass them off as wolf mixes or just not having a clue about the background... 

People are notoriously bad at identifying wolf mixes. People ask me ALL THE TIME if my Eurasier is a wolf mix. Or a fox mix which is simply impossible. This guy. This is the pup people think is a wolf mix. Seriously.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Haha yeah the Eurasier looks nothing like a wolf. The mom dog I saw looked similar to the picture I showed, and its fur and color was exactly the same. But there was obvious signs of wolf in its face and limbs. It might have only 10% or something, the owner seemed to back off the more we asked about information on bloodline. So that was weird and concerning.



Avie said:


> To be honest I'm kind of put off by the fact you'd like one because of the rarity. I'd suggest looking into wolfy looking dog breeds.
> 
> And if you'd like something that has a very small percentage of wolf in it and is also very rare, go check out Saarloos wolfdogs and Czechoslovakian wolfdogs.


Its not just the rarity, its the Wolf in general. I just love them, beauty and personality. I mean there is this part of me that wants to impress people or show off a Wolf. I'm not going to lie about that. Theres something just really cool and unique about owning a Wolfdog over a Poodle or something. It would be just kinda disappointing to not pursue my dreams. But at the same time, if your dreams are about starting fires and running people over with cars would that be a wise thing to pursue? Like the dangers of a Wolf??


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Wolffee said:


> Haha yeah the Eurasier looks nothing like a wolf. The mom dog I saw looked similar to the picture I showed, and its fur and color was exactly the same. But there was obvious signs of wolf in its face and limbs. It might have only 10% or something, the owner seemed to back off the more we asked about information on bloodline. So that was weird and concerning.
> 
> 
> 
> Its not just the rarity, its the Wolf in general. I just love them, beauty and personality. I mean there is this part of me that wants to impress people or show off a Wolf. I'm not going to lie about that. Theres something just really cool and unique about owning a Wolfdog over a Poodle or something. It would be just kinda disappointing to not pursue my dreams. But at the same time, if your dreams are about starting fires and running people over with cars would that be a wise thing to pursue? Like the dangers of a Wolf??


What, specifically, about a wolf's personality do you like?


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Lillith said:


> What, specifically, about a wolf's personality do you like?


Literally everything. The mysterious look in their eyes, which very few dogs tend to have. Their beautiful pelts and appearance. I've always lend towards dogs with pointed ears, haunting eyes, and fluffy bodies. I like their temper, the edginess, the darkness to them that most people seem to stray away from. Just like Bats, and Rats and all the creatures most people judge or consider ''evil'' I see something in them thats far from that. Theres just something haunting about them, as if they put me in a trance.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

Sooo, not their personality at all, but their appearance?

What about bears, lions, coyotes or dingo? What are there personalities like?

Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi3KPf1LuLM


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

CiElBie said:


> Sooo, not their personality at all, but their appearance?
> 
> What about bears, lions, coyotes or dingo? What are there personalities like?
> 
> Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi3KPf1LuLM


Both personality and appearance I could write 100,000 words about why but that would take me hours or days. I guess theres this edge to anything dangerous that I like. Theres really not one thing I don't like about them, thats the point I'm trying to make. Theres no exact trait or traits that stick out to me. I just like everything from their intelligence, strong-will, aggression. There both challenging but loyal to their families and packs. Their leadership skills. And their attitude.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Trust me, having a dog that is aggressive is not something you actually want to deal with on a day to day basis. -Certainly- not an aggressive wolf.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

_The mysterious look in their eyes,_ 
_Their beautiful pelts and appearance._ 
_I've always lend towards dogs with pointed ears,_ 
_haunting eyes, and fluffy bodies._ 
*^ Those are all how you describe their appearance.*

_ I like their temper, the edginess, the darkness to them_. <-- they are not "edgy", they are not "dark", and what is their "temper"? 
They are undomesticated animals really. Best to think of them like that, they are not dogs that have become emo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG1ao9Hjmbk --- _be careful with this one_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTdaWUDeGsg


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Wolffee said:


> Literally everything. The mysterious look in their eyes, which very few dogs tend to have. Their beautiful pelts and appearance. I've always lend towards dogs with pointed ears, haunting eyes, and fluffy bodies. I like their temper, the edginess, the darkness to them that most people seem to stray away from. Just like Bats, and Rats and all the creatures most people judge or consider ''evil'' I see something in them thats far from that. Theres just something haunting about them, as if they put me in a trance.


Ok. That's not their personality. That's how they look. "Darkness" and "Haunting" are labels humans have given them. That means nothing. "Temper" is vague and not specific. For example, I can say I like Australian Shepherds because they are biddable and want to please their owner. They are goofy because they make funny sounds when they play with toys and run around the house shaking stuffed toys to death. They have great drive because they want to chase a ball, work, and do agility. They are intelligent because they quickly pick up on what their owner needs them to do, and they are capable of learning hundreds of cues. They are not always great to have around young children because they like to herd. They are often wary of strangers, so must have time to be properly introduced. That is a dog's personality, and each one has different quirks, to boot.

So, what specifically do you like about a wolf's personality? What can you live with, and what are things you absolutely cannot live with? Perhaps we can help you find a dog breed that has a similar personality to a wolf, because if you want "fluffy, pointed ears, haunting eyes, and darkness" we have a catalog for you.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Wolffee said:


> Both personality and appearance I could write 100,000 words about why but that would take me hours or days. I guess theres this edge to anything dangerous that I like. *Theres really not one thing I don't like about them, thats the point I'm trying to make. Theres no exact trait or traits that stick out to me.* I just like everything from their intelligence, strong-will, aggression. There both challenging but loyal to their families and packs. Their leadership skills. And their attitude.


So you like the way they look, and there is nothing else that specifically makes you want one other than to impress people. Aggression is not fun to deal with, especially in an animal of 150+ pounds.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Lillith said:


> So you like the way they look, and there is nothing else that specifically makes you want one other than to impress people. Aggression is not fun to deal with, especially in an animal of 150+ pounds.


Um no I like everything what more can I say?! I'm not going to argue with you about wolves. Or anything. I just like them and who cares? Its not just all to impress people, I'm not auditioning for a High School play.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

*There both challenging but loyal to their families and packs. * <-- not true from what I can gather, at all.

*Their leadership skills.* <-- in the video I showed you, was that great leadership skills? Good for keeping a pack in order, but from a human perspective? You know, the video with the omega dog?

*intelligence, strong-will, aggression.* <-- I guarantee they do not make good pets for the average person with these traits. In fact, an Akita can have these traits too, and they are certainly not a breed for everyone. But they are still dogs and can make good pets to the right people, not wild animals.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

It really sounds like you need to spend a great deal of time volunteering with a wolfdog sanctuary before you even consider a wolfdog. Your descriptions of what you think a wolfdog are, those don't describe a real animal. I don't know where you got that information but you seem to be describing some fantasy character, maybe from a novel you read? 

*The mysterious look in their eyes, which very few dogs tend to have. Their beautiful pelts and appearance. I've always lend towards dogs with pointed ears, haunting eyes, and fluffy bodies.* This is describing appearance but most of it is opinion vs fact. "mysterious look, which few dogs have", "haunting eyes" all opinion. Many dog breeds have pointed ears and "beautiful pelts" isn't really a helpful descriptor. 

*I like their temper, the edginess, the darkness to them that most people seem to stray away from. * Temper isn't a description. Darkness? These are just wild animals, they aren't "dark" or "edgy". These aren't extras in a bad vampire movie, they are apex predators. You need to be able to understand what they actually are. 

*Just like Bats, and Rats and all the creatures most people judge or consider ''evil'' I see something in them thats far from that. Theres just something haunting about them, as if they put me in a trance. * So I'm going to ask the question now, how old are you? It sort of sounds like you are building up some sort of "misunderstood" fantasy around yourself and wolves. Like you are going to own this wolfdog that is going to act like a normal doggy-dog only for you because you can train it. But everyone else will see you both as "outsiders" and "loners".


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you want a low-content wolfdog, and hope that it acts like a dog. . .why not just get a dog and not gamble? And, again, wolves do not have a "temper". They aren't wired to like you or anybody else (like dogs are), but anything you would call a "temper" in a dog (I'm thinking terriers ) would not be normal wolf behavior. I suppose you could call them "haunting" if you like. "Dark"? Well, that's not how I'd describe them, lol. I also don't know anyone who's impressed by someone who keeps a wolfdog. 

Really, you need to meet some actual wolfdogs (not what some shmoe on the street says is a wolfdog) and see what daily life is like with them. Usually, when somebody wants a wild animal as a pet, this is how it goes: dream: "I want a wild animal pet! They're so cool and so pretty and people will think I'm awesome!" Reality: lots of work, and so much pee and poop (so much!), and they have special needs, and it takes half an hour to prepare each meal, and you can't let guests near them, and nobody thinks you're awesome, they just kind of roll their eyes at you. 

There are reasons some people like keeping wild animals, like the challenge of keeping a working environment for them and providing for their needs, but if you want a dog park dog or an obedience dog, a wolf is not your thing.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Wolffee said:


> Um no I like everything what more can I say?! I'm not going to argue with you about wolves. Or anything. I just like them and who cares? Its not just all to impress people, I'm not auditioning for a High School play.


I'm not trying to argue with you, either, and I am not trying to ruin your dream or be vindictive. You asked the forum "Should I get a Wolfdog? Your opinion on Wolfdogs?" and I gave mine, as has everybody else. "I want one because I just like them" is not a good reason to get any living creature! You can like them all you want, and I don't care, but do I think you should get one? No, absolutely not, because when it comes to the safety of yourself and those around you and the well-being of the animal, then yes, I do care!


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## BigLittle (May 28, 2014)

Yeah, I would suggest starting with a dog breed that matches you in terms of what kind of personality would mesh well with you, or even an adult mutt from the shelter (again, nothing based on looks, only based on how well the personality fits).

You seem to like the idea of owning a wolf. Nothing wrong with that. They're cool animals. The problem is, you are looking for your first dog. 

I like to think of wolves as being like high-powered classic hot rod cars. Off-the charts in the cool factor; every car lover has wished for one at some point in their lives. But with the high price tag, high maintenance, difficulty to safely control, and temperamental behavior classic cars always have, nobody in their right mind would let a teen have one as the first car. You start with something tamer and more appropriate to their skills. An old, slow car with predictable behavior, then something newer, faster, more challenging, etc. 

Start with a dog that would be reasonably challenging to a new owner, but more forgiving than a wolf. Volunteer with wolf sanctuaries to get your wolf fix. It would be better to go in over your head with something like a terrier breed, molosser, or northern breed which can be easily rehomed to someone better equipped than to go in over your head with a wolf, which likely would have to be put down or forced to live a miserable 15+ years of confinement and isolation.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Lillith said:


> I'm not trying to argue with you, either, and I am not trying to ruin your dream or be vindictive. You asked the forum "Should I get a Wolfdog? Your opinion on Wolfdogs?" and I gave mine, as has everybody else. "I want one because I just like them" is not a good reason to get any living creature! You can like them all you want, and I don't care, but do I think you should get one? No, absolutely not, because when it comes to the safety of yourself and those around you and the well-being of the animal, then yes, I do care!


Yeah, getting something because you like it and actually having the ability to care for it are two different things. I can't count how many parents pass through my job because they got their children puppies and those kids no longer take care of them. That is also a major reason so many dogs end up in shelters. Someone has a romanticized Rin Tin Tin version of a GSD in their head, gets a pup, and then can't keep up. Dog ends up in rescue by 6 months.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Also, just to throw this out there, if you brought a wolfdog to a dog park, that's basically just asking for trouble. Bad trouble. Horrible bad trouble. The kind where dogs die and you get sued so hard your grandchildren will still be paying for it. (Yes, that's a bit of hyperbole, but not by much. A wolf or a wolfdog is still a wild animal and you will be on the line for any damage it does)

I also support the suggestion of finding a sanctuary or wolfdog rescue where you can volunteer. You can do all the research in the world, but I really think that with all the potential disaster that comes with owning a wild animal, there's no substitute for hands-on experience.

Or just get an awesome wolfy-LOOKING dog. And if you do that, by the way, don't tell people it's a wolfdog if it's not. Again, liability issues. And legal issues depending on where you live.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

You also need to check the laws in your state:

http://www.hybridlaw.com/

In Michigan, where I live, it's illegal to own a wolf/dog hybrid.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Yeah, I think in my state, Pennsylvania, you need permits (by the way, totally fine to get a permit for a Puma, but sugar gliders are totally illegal...)/ HOWEVER, my city doesn't allow wolves or wolf hybrids at all. I actually just read that this morning when I was looking for pet limits because I want a bunny.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Remaru said:


> It really sounds like you need to spend a great deal of time volunteering with a wolfdog sanctuary before you even consider a wolfdog. Your descriptions of what you think a wolfdog are, those don't describe a real animal. I don't know where you got that information but you seem to be describing some fantasy character, maybe from a novel you read?
> 
> *The mysterious look in their eyes, which very few dogs tend to have. Their beautiful pelts and appearance. I've always lend towards dogs with pointed ears, haunting eyes, and fluffy bodies.* This is describing appearance but most of it is opinion vs fact. "mysterious look, which few dogs have", "haunting eyes" all opinion. Many dog breeds have pointed ears and "beautiful pelts" isn't really a helpful descriptor.
> 
> ...


Agreed, the OP honestly sounds so much like me as a teen. I too used to dream about owning a wolfdog, thanks to books like WhiteFang, I had an incredibly romanticized image of what a wolfdog was in my mind. I envisioned an animal that looked just like a wolf, but with the personality of a dog, that would love ONLY me, and would be this amazing companion. Thankfully, I had parents that wouldn't even THINK of allowing me to pursue my dream, let alone access to wolfdogs where I live, because in my late teens/very early 20's, we got our first family computer with internet (I know, dating myself now, lol), and I did some real research on them, and discovered that my fantasy was absolutely NOTHING like reality. Wolfdogs are not wolfy looking dogs. No amount of training will make them behave like a dog. They have to be housed and fed the same as you would a pure wolf, and it takes a great deal of dedication and experience to keep one properly. After that, I contented myself with owning dogs suitable for me, and appreciating wolves and wolfdogs from afar.

OP, I strongly advise you to do a ton more research, and have a look at threads and posts started by Cindy23323, she's a member here who owns two genuine wolfdogs. Look at her threads and pictures, see what it takes to properly house and care for these animals, contact her for information, and really, seriously, question whether you can truly handle an animal like this. I think the suggestion made earlier of volunteering at a wolf sanctuary is an excellent one.

Here's a link to a list of threads started by Cindy, most are about her wolfdogs.
http://www.dogforums.com/search.php?searchid=15769225

This is a list of posts she's made on other threads, many of which are people who either think they have a wolfdog or are considering one.
http://www.dogforums.com/search.php?searchid=15769281

I've put the legwork in on the search to make it a bit easier for you. Seriously. Read them with an open mind, LISTEN to those with much more experience than you have. Reading your posts here, I honestly don't think you're ready for a wolfdog YET. That doesn't mean never, it means you need to do a lot more research, without the rose-coloured glasses romanticizing wolves, and get a lot more experience under your belt first. Get that experience, learn and mentor under people experienced in wolfdog care, and one day you very well could have a wolfdog. I just don't think now is the right time.

Just remembered, we also had another forum member at one time who kept wolfdogs as well. She's not active on the forum anymore, but you'll find a wealth of information in her threads as well.
http://www.dogforums.com/search.php?searchid=15769369


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

None of your links are working Kuma's Mom! They come up as "no matches".


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

There are loads of dog breeds with light colored 'haunting' eyes. 

Picking a dog because it's 'edgy' or 'you like darkness' is a terrible idea.

Also I have seen people bring Wolfdogs to the dog park... The police ended up out there escorting them out.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

I get what your all saying, but at the same time I can't help but feel as if Wolves are just judged in general, looked down upon, and completely misunderstood. I came on here for advice and I think I got quite a lot. I understand all the concerns and negative opinions. It just gets really irritating hearing all theses horrible things about Wolfdogs. And more then anything it actually pushes me to go for it, rather then not. Thanks for all the advice I'm not being stubborn I will do more research this won't be all on impulse and locked up desires. I actually saw an Australian Shepherd a month ago being advertised at a local shelter. He was almost two years old, but he really caught my eye. Maybe he might be a good start off in the right direction. I might consider him. I still have a few months to decide so I'll be looking out and doing a lot of thinking.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

TSTrainer said:


> None of your links are working Kuma's Mom! They come up as "no matches".


Weird, they work when I click on them. 

If you do an advanced search for the usernames, Cindy23323 and Nekomi, they'll also come up. Was just trying to make it easier, sigh.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Wolffee said:


> I get what your all saying, but at the same time I can't help but feel as if Wolves are just judged in general, looked down upon, and completely misunderstood. I came on here for advice and I think I got quite a lot. I understand all the concerns and negative opinions. It just gets really irritating hearing all theses horrible things about Wolfdogs. And more then anything it actually pushes me to go for it, rather then not. Thanks for all the advice I'm not being stubborn I will do more research this won't be all on impulse and locked up desires. I actually saw an Australian Shepherd a month ago being advertised at a local shelter. He was almost two years old, but he really caught my eye. Maybe he might be a good start off in the right direction. I might consider him. I still have a few months to decide so I'll be looking out and doing a lot of thinking.


No, NO ONE here has said one horrible thing about wolfdogs. What they HAVE said is that they are nothing like what you've posted that you think they are, that you are heavily romanticizing them, and that they are not appropriate as a first time pet for an inexperienced dog owner. For someone with the experience and facilities necessary to properly house one, they can be amazing, but you need to be looking at them realistically, and right now, you are NOT. Talk to Cindy, she OWNS wolfdogs, she'll give you the real, true info on what it's like to own one.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Thing is, wolves USED to be misunderstood, but now they're not. We know so much about them because they've been studied in the wild and because idiot people breed "wolfdogs" and now they're in sanctuaries where they can be observed. Wolves are not misunderstood, in fact I think many of us genuinely appreciate them (I am getting a wolf related tattoo soon as a matter of fact), but we appreciate them from AFAR. Dogs are wonderful but they're not wolves, and wolves are nowhere close to dogs, even the wolf mixes.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I actually love wolves. They have long been my favorite animal. As a teen I daydreamed about them a lot. Used to draw them all the time. They're gorgeous but... Wild animals. You can't turn them into an average dog.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Wolffee said:


> I get what your all saying, but at the same time I can't help but feel as if Wolves are just judged in general, looked down upon, and completely misunderstood. I came on here for advice and I think I got quite a lot. I understand all the concerns and negative opinions. It just gets really irritating hearing all theses horrible things about Wolfdogs. And more then anything it actually pushes me to go for it, rather then not. Thanks for all the advice I'm not being stubborn I will do more research this won't be all on impulse and locked up desires. I actually saw an Australian Shepherd a month ago being advertised at a local shelter. He was almost two years old, but he really caught my eye. Maybe he might be a good start off in the right direction. I might consider him. I still have a few months to decide so I'll be looking out and doing a lot of thinking.


They're not "misunderstood", they're wild animals. These aren't just 'horrible things', they're the truth about living with wolfdogs. 
They just aren't like regular dogs at all because they're WILD. There's nothing bad or dark or horrible about a wild animal, they are just... wild. They're predators. They kill and eat other animals. That's totally nature, all a part of nature. But what happens when you bring your wolfdog with that predator instinct to the dog park with lots of little dogs running around and squeaking? Or just out for a walk and there are toddlers playing in someone's front yard? Wild animals are going to see those things as prey. It's not evil, it's just the nature of wild animals.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

You are still "hearing things as you want to hear them" or more reading things as you want to read them. People aren't saying horrible things about wolfdogs, we are saying that they are NOT just like dogs and require special care and containment. They should not be impulsively purchased so you can feel cool or edgy. They aren't just an interesting pet, they are a huge commitment. Yes, in some places wolves are still reviled as cattle/livestock killers but in general wolves have been well studied and are becoming more respected as apex predators. I have seen far more misunderstandings in this post on your part than from anyone else. You seem to not understand what wolves or wolfdogs are. They just look attractive to you so you want one.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Kuma'sMom said:


> No, NO ONE here has said one horrible thing about wolfdogs. What they HAVE said is that they are nothing like what you've posted that you think they are, that you are heavily romanticizing them, and that they are not appropriate as a first time pet for an inexperienced dog owner. For someone with the experience and facilities necessary to properly house one, they can be amazing, but you need to be looking at them realistically, and right now, you are NOT. Talk to Cindy, she OWNS wolfdogs, she'll give you the real, true info on what it's like to own one.


I don't think I was romanticizing anything. There really is a mysterious look in a wolfs eyes. And a darkness. I don't see how that isn't true? Or maybe I just look at them weirdly. Like how people look at art differently.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Wolffee said:


> I get what your all saying, but at the same time I can't help but feel as if Wolves are just judged in general, looked down upon, and completely misunderstood. I came on here for advice and I think I got quite a lot. I understand all the concerns and negative opinions. *It just gets really irritating hearing all theses horrible things about Wolfdogs.* And more then anything it actually pushes me to go for it, rather then not. Thanks for all the advice I'm not being stubborn I will do more research this won't be all on impulse and locked up desires. I actually saw an Australian Shepherd a month ago being advertised at a local shelter. He was almost two years old, but he really caught my eye. Maybe he might be a good start off in the right direction. I might consider him. I still have a few months to decide so I'll be looking out and doing a lot of thinking.


No one is saying "horrible things" about wolfdogs. We're telling you the truth, stripped of the romance and drama. 

Again, where do you live? You may find that owning one is entirely illegal in your state. 

And, I'll echo everyone else - get a dog. You can even get a wolf-y looking dog. I own(ed) these two:










They both weigh(ed) around 130 lbs. I got asked if they were wolfdogs every time I took them into public. They're big, dramatic and rather striking animals. And on top of that, they weren't dangerous or illegal to own. They didn't need special diets, or confinement. They're just pretty dogs. And that's exactly what you need at your level of experience. A pretty dog you can work with and learn from and bond with on a very deep level.

ETA: People will be much more impressed by your pretty dog who is well trained and you can safely take in public than by the wolf dogs you have to legally keep confined in your back yard.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

TSTrainer said:


> Thing is, wolves USED to be misunderstood, but now they're not. We know so much about them because they've been studied in the wild and because idiot people breed "wolfdogs" and now they're in sanctuaries where they can be observed. Wolves are not misunderstood, in fact I think many of us genuinely appreciate them (I am getting a wolf related tattoo soon as a matter of fact), but we appreciate them from AFAR. Dogs are wonderful but they're not wolves, and wolves are nowhere close to dogs, even the wolf mixes.


Yep this. I LOVE seeing Cindy's posts about her woofers, and I love seeing Nekomi's updates (we're friends on FB still), she actually has a coydog now, and I LOVE seeing her posts about her. BUT, as much as I LOVE wolves and wolfdogs, and I love seeing pictures of them and hearing about them from people who are experienced and dedicated enough to properly care for them, I also know that I am in no way capable or prepared to ever own one for myself. It wouldn't be fair to me OR the wolfdog. That's part of being responsible, recognizing when you're just not equipped to care for an animal, no matter how much you might love them, and setting yourself up for success with an animal you ARE able to care for properly.

I ADORE wolves, and that's WHY I'll never own a wolf or wolfdog. I love them too much to subject them to improper living conditions simply because I WANT one.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

I guess I watched too much Balto when I was a kid.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Wasn't Balto a husky?


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Wolffee said:


> I guess I watched too much Balto when I was a kid.


I loved Balto!



Effisia said:


> Wasn't Balto a husky?


No he was a mix that looked like a wolf. In the movie, that is.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Effisia said:


> Wasn't Balto a husky?


I think he was a hybrid


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Wolffee said:


> I don't think I was romanticizing anything. There really is a mysterious look in a wolfs eyes. And a darkness. I don't see how that isn't true? Or maybe I just look at them weirdly. Like how people look at art differently.



That IS romanticizing, along with statements like these:


> I personally feel like wolves are very misunderstood. And this is a huge reason why I want a Wolfdog to prove to everyone that they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. And that with a lot of training and love the big bad wolf could melt into a strawberry scented candle.





> Their beautiful pelts and appearance. I've always lend towards dogs with pointed ears, haunting eyes, and fluffy bodies. I like their temper, the edginess, the darkness to them that most people seem to stray away from. Just like Bats, and Rats and all the creatures most people judge or consider ''evil'' I see something in them thats far from that. Theres just something haunting about them, as if they put me in a trance.


These are all romanticizing wolves, and completely ignoring the reality of what they are. It does a total disservice to what really is an amazing animal in it's own right, but one that needs to be respected for what it is. An apex predator, not a fairytale, and not a pet.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not against keeping wild animals as pets. I have wild animals as pets, lol. But you have to respect their nature and understand their needs. They aren't the same as domesticated animals. Humans domesticated animals specifically to be different from wild animals. And if you go into wild animal ownership expecting to turn a wolf into a Golden Retriever---hey, this even applies to different domestic breeds; if you try to turn a Husky into a Golden Retriever---you're going to be disappointed and the animal will suffer for it.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

The real life Balto was a husky.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Hiraeth said:


> No one is saying "horrible things" about wolfdogs. We're telling you the truth, stripped of the romance and drama.
> 
> Again, where do you live? You may find that owning one is entirely illegal in your state.
> 
> ...


This, all of this!!


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Ah. The REAL Balto was a husky. Pretty sure they made up the wolfdog thing for the animated movie. Just because it's 'cooler' I guess?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Willowy said:


> Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not against keeping wild animals as pets. I have wild animals as pets, lol. But you have to respect their nature and understand their needs. They aren't the same as domesticated animals. Humans domesticated animals specifically to be different from wild animals. And if you go into wild animal ownership expecting to turn a wolf into a Golden Retriever---hey, this even applies to different domestic breeds; if you try to turn a Husky into a Golden Retriever---you're going to be disappointed and the animal will suffer for it.


Agreed, I also have wild animals as pets, but I did an immense amount of research into the correct care and made absolutely certain I could provide it before acquiring my animals. And, I chose a wild animal that I KNEW I could care for easily. In my case, and in Willowy's, that's reptiles, amphibians as well in my case.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Effisia said:


> Ah. The REAL Balto was a husky. Pretty sure they made up the wolfdog thing for the animated movie. Just because it's 'cooler' I guess?


I mean, it does make more sense with the plot of the movie. But, you know, it's an animated kids movie.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Effisia said:


> Wasn't Balto a husky?


In real life he was. In the movie I guess he was supposed to be a wolfdog. And in the sequel he had to explain to his daughter about having wolf heritage and why everyone discriminated against her because of her appearance. I think maybe pets shouldn't be picked based on cartoons .


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Effisia said:


> Wasn't Balto a husky?


Ha! Yeah a husky type. And he wasn't even the true hero. Togo was the one who ran the farthest and had the roughest trip! Balto just headed the last leg of it. P.s. Balto lived to be 14! In the 1930s! CLICK

Edit: my phone can't spell Balto.


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## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

Wolffee said:


> It just gets really irritating hearing all theses horrible things about Wolfdogs. And more then anything it actually pushes me to go for it, rather then not. Thanks for all the advice I'm not being stubborn I will do more research this won't be all on impulse and locked up desires.


1) None of us are saying horrible things about wolfdogs. We're saying that they are a creature to be respected and treated as a _equal_. They are not dogs whom have been bred specifically to please us and make us happy and will happily bend over backwards to do stupid pet tricks if it makes us happy (your strawberry scented candle). Wolfdogs don't give squat about our egos and our big primate brains.

2) Yes, please do more research. Heavy duty, boots on the ground, kind of research--not the arm chair Google search type of research. Go to those wolf sanctuaries and actually work work them so you can know exactly what you can and cannot handle and how your perception of wolfdogs line up with reality.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Fun Balto facts from Wikipedia because I can;

Historical differences;
-The film portrays Balto (1919–March 1933) as a brown wolfdog. In real life, Balto was a pure bred Siberian Husky and was black and white in color.[4][5] Balto's colors changed to brown due to light exposure whilst on display in the Cleveland Museum of Natural History.[6]
-The sled run to retrieve the medicine was a relay. Instead of being the leader of the first team, Balto was the leader of the last team to carry the medicine to Nome. The longest and most hazardous distance was traveled by the team led by Togo.[7][8]
-The medicine was never driven by the dogs alone and none of the mushers were incapacitated.[4]
-Balto was never an outcast street dog as shown by the film, but was instead born in a kennel owned by the famous musher Leonhard Seppala, where he was trained until deemed fit for pulling a sled as the lead dog. Seppala was also the owner of Togo (1913–1929), whom he personally used to lead his dog team during the relay. Balto was used by one of Seppala's workers, Gunnar Kaasen.[4][5][7]
-Balto is the only animal and the only character in the movie who is based on an actual historical figure.[5]
-In the sequels, Balto was shown to have offspring, but in real life he was neutered at a young age.[5]
-In the sequels, Balto continued living in Nome along with his family and friends (the events of the third film happened in 1928), but in the real life, Balto and his team were sent to the Brookside Zoo (now the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo) in 1927 where they spent their last years.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

I actually just googled for Wolf Sanctuaries in my location and found one thats 27 mintues away.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Wolffee said:


> I wasn't planing on getting a high content wolf, maybe 50% - 25% which still is a lot of wolf to handle I get that. I was wanting something that I could take to group classes, impress my mentor with, and take to dog parks, walks etc. The whole nine yards. Maybe thats a lot to expect from a wild animal, maybe its even impossible, but can it be done?


You cannot take a wolf hybrid to a dog park. You can't even take many dog-dogs to a dog park. I find it difficult to imagine a training facility would take on the liability of having a wolf hybrid in a group class. So I guess that leaves walking it on a leash, which...maybe? Depends on the animal.



Wolffee said:


> I understand all the concerns and negative opinions. It just gets really irritating hearing all theses horrible things about Wolfdogs.


It's not "horrible" to say that wolf hybrids are illegal in many places, are not human-oriented like dogs are, are even more predatory than dogs (and most dogs are pretty predatory to start with), and require special containment for both legal and practical reasons. It's just reality. None of those things are a value judgement on a wolf or wolf hybrid. What's _horrible_ is someone getting a wolf hybrid, and then it getting shot or euthanized after it turned out to be illegal or after there's an incident.



Effisia said:


> Ah. The REAL Balto was a husky. Pretty sure they made up the wolfdog thing for the animated movie. Just because it's 'cooler' I guess?


The real Balto also was also neutered and an adorable puffball, lol. I guess a denutted fluffy friendly husky doesn't make for the same kind of drama.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Wolffee said:


> I actually just googled for Wolf Sanctuaries in my location and found one thats 27 mintues away.


That's great!! I really think volunteering at a sanctuary like that would be the best thing for you right now.


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## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

EDIT: I was confused. Ignore me lol.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

sydneynicole said:


> What about a Tamaskan? They were created specifically for people like you, that want to own a wolf but live with a dog.


I thought about getting one, but all the ones I'm finding near me are twice as expensive as the Wolf hybrids I was looking at. I saw some Wolf hybrids for around $400 to $600 and the Tamaskan puppies were $1400 and up. That seems really expensive for a dog.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Although, honestly, I think a big fluffy friendly ball-less husky could make a better protagonist of a dramatic animated survival story than an animal cut from a more stereotypical heroic mold. 

I imagine this dog would be voiced by, like, Seth Rogen.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Wolffee said:


> I thought about getting one, but all the ones I'm finding near me are twice as expensive as the Wolf hybrids I was looking at. I saw some Wolf hybrids for around $400 to $600 and the Tamaskan puppies were $1400 and up. That seems really expensive for a dog.


If the breeder is health testing the sire and dam, $1400 is not expensive for a dog.... ESPECIALLY a rare breed....


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

$400-600 is likely not an actual wolf dog. It's likely a GSD or Husky mutt. I would expect to pay much more than $1400 for a real wolf dog. And $800-$1500 is pretty run of the mill for any well bred dog.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

JohnnyBandit said:


> If the breeder is health testing the sire and dam, $1400 is not expensive for a dog.... ESPECIALLY a rare breed....


Lol. My poodle from tested parents cost more than that. 1400 for a RESPONSIBLY BRED rare breed is a phenomenal deal.



parus said:


> Although, honestly, I think a big fluffy friendly ball-less husky could make a better protagonist of a dramatic animated survival story than an animal cut from a more stereotypical heroic mold.
> 
> I imagine this dog would be voiced by, like, Seth Rogen.


I vote for a historically accurate Balto remake starring Seth Rogan, please and thank you.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

chimunga said:


> $400-600 is likely not an actual wolf dog. It's likely a GSD or Husky mutt. I would expect to pay much more than $1400 for a real wolf dog. And $800-$1500 is pretty run of the mill for any well bred dog.


I could get a dog at the Animal Shelter for $100 dollars with all its shots and with it being spayed/neutered.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Wolffee said:


> I could get a dog at the Animal Shelter for $100 dollars with all its shots and with it being spayed/neutered.


Yep. Rescuing is definitely the most economical way to get a dog.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

"I want a wolf-hybrid instead of a dog because they are nothing like dogs; hybrids are different."

"I want my wolf-hybrid to do typically doggy things: obedience and dog parks. And also to be safe around livestock."

"You're saying bad things about hybrids by saying they aren't like dogs."

"I want a wolf-hybrid because they're nothing like dogs."

Repeat ad inf. 

What?


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

Wolffee said:


> I could get a dog at the Animal Shelter for $100 dollars with all its shots and with it being spayed/neutered.


Yes. Yes you could. But if you want to get a dog from a breeder, any breeder, wolf dog or dog dog, expect to pay much more than $600.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

CptJack said:


> "I want a wolf-hybrid instead of a dog because they are nothing like dogs; hybrids are different."
> 
> "I want my wolf-hybrid to do typically doggy things: obedience and dog parks. And also to be safe around livestock."
> 
> ...


I basically want something that probably doesn't exist


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

TSTrainer said:


> I vote for a historically accurate Balto remake starring Seth Rogan, please and thank you.


With poor Togo being overshadowed by him by a quirk of reporting, too, haha. Togo was apparently irritating and small and very competent. I elect Steve Buscemi to voice him.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

For real though, an actual hybrid would be in the thousands, nevermind what you would need to shell out to build their enclosure and etc.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Wolffee said:


> I basically want something that probably doesn't exist


Unfortunately yes. This is true.You aren't really going to find a REAL wolfdog that acts like a dog-dog. Or one that's cheap. I can't imagine real wolfdog breeders selling for $400. Or without EXTENSIVE checking on their buyers and their setups and whatnot. 

Oh, and you'd probably be appalled at what I paid for my dogs lol.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Wolffee said:


> I basically want something that probably doesn't exist


Yes, you do. Closest you can get is a large breed Shepherd-type mix that has a wolfy appearance and dog temperament. 

Also, I'm willing to bet that anyone breeding and selling genuine mid to high content wolf hybrids is charging far more than $400-600 per puppy. That's very cheap for a rare breed. That's on the low end for common breeds, to be honest. My breed is pretty common (15th most popular breed in the US, according to the AKC), and a reputably bred puppy can't be touched for much less than $1,500.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

parus said:


> With poor Togo being overshadowed by him by a quirk of reporting, too, haha. Togo was apparently irritating and small and very competent. I elect Steve Buscemi to voice him.


Excellent. I smell a classic on par with Frozen


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

I personally think the wolf look-a-likes look cooler than many with actual wolf in them

For example, which one of these dogs is an actual wolfdog with wolf blood in it?


















































BTW, anyone know how to resize the images?

If you guessed the akita type, 4th one down, you are correct  The rest have no actual wolf blood as far as is known. My personal favourite is the third one down, which is a Tamaskan.

Also, a fun fact, some of the wolves in game of thrones were played by northern inuit dogs, no wolf in them either.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

ireth0 said:


> For real though, an actual hybrid would be in the thousands, nevermind what you would need to shell out to build their enclosure and etc.


Yep. For reference, threads showing Nekomi's and Cindy's encolusures. Hopefully these links work, lol.
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/56539-fence-finished-pics.html

Cindy doesn't have a thread dedicated to showing the full enclosure, but you can see it in the background of these pics.
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/109950-new-pics.html
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/283241-new-pics-loki.html
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/234561-selene-loki-update-pics.html


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

agree on loving the dog look alike breeds being more attractive to me, for not only the similar look, but the benefit of getting the domestic dog traits with it..

I guess Picture #4


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Oh, and I guess I'd like to add, you've made a few romantic statements about "aggression" and "drama". 

There's nothing fun about aggressive or dramatic dogs. The two dogs I posted photos of are "dramatic". The white one has killed multiple cats, raccoon, rabbits, squirrels, snakes, opossum, skunks and a deer. If he slips out of my house, escapes my yard or yanks a leash out of my hand, the odds of another animal dying are high. The black dog had a legal reported bite history and put a kid in the hospital needing reconstructive surgery. He also had severe resource guarding issues and would attack anything that wasn't me that got within five feet of him when he had a toy. He required precisely managed confinement and I could never vacation or travel or go away overnight when I owned him because I couldn't trust anyone else to watch him.

That's drama and aggression. And believe me, after a little while of trying to manage that type of situation, it gets exhausting. Eventually all you'll want is a boring, "tame" dog who you can take to the pet store without worrying it's going to bite someone, or walk down the street without being paranoid about not noticing someone who is approaching with another dog, or let off leash in a field and just enjoy the day without wondering what the dog is going to find to kill. Drama and aggression was the story of my life for 6 years. And now that Atlas is older and Loki passed away, and I went out and got the one of the least dramatic and most people friendly breeds I could find. And it is such a relief.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

CiElBie said:


> I personally think the wolf look-a-likes look cooler than many with actual wolf in them
> 
> For example, which one of these dogs is an actual wolfdog with wolf blood in it?
> 
> ...


In season 1. They switched to real wolves cg'd to be giant after. 

I'm a nerd im sorry.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

Laurelin said:


> In season 1. They switched to real wolves cg'd to be giant after.
> 
> I'm a nerd im sorry.


Smartiepants


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

The dog breed selector recommended Belgian Malinois, Border Collie, Australian Cattle Dog, and Canaan Dog. I wish it got more personal I kinda feel like some of this isn't accurate. http://www.animalplanet.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds.html


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Maybe take a few different selectors. That one is so-so. 

Best thing is to meet some dogs and talk to the owners and be realistic about what kind of lifestyle you want with your prospective dog.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Wolffee said:


> The dog breed selector recommended Belgian Malinois, Border Collie, Australian Cattle Dog, and Canaan Dog. I wish it got more personal I kinda feel like some of this isn't accurate. http://www.animalplanet.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds.html


Many dog breed selectors are inaccurate. 

If you want to find a dog breed that you think is right for you, go to a few dog shows. Find out when the breeds you're interested in are going in the ring. Show up before ring time and talk to the handlers about them. Go to dog parks and talk to owners of dogs you like. Go to dog events in your area, like trials or festivals, and meet some dogs and talk to people.

There is nothing like actual hands on experience for determining which breed is right for you. Sitting in a chair and Googling can only get you so far.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

Malinois, I would not really go there.
Canaans are quite an old dog breed, so would be more independent and a little more difficult to train from what I could find out.

But yes, definitely go to dog shows, dog parks, etc.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Laurelin said:


> Maybe take a few different selectors. That one is so-so.
> 
> Best thing is to meet some dogs and talk to the owners and be realistic about what kind of lifestyle you want with your prospective dog.


Agreed. Almost every dog breed selector I've ever taken has recommended breeds that are completely wrong for me. You can also list the characteristics (temperament, energy level, grooming requirements, etc) that you want in a dog here, and people here will make breed suggestions for you. There's a wealth of dog experience here, I'd definitely take advantage of it.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Yeahh.. between the thousands you would spend on PROPER confinement and such.. you aren't getting a cheaper animal by any means. 

I don't know much about wolfdogs.. but I can't imagine feeding them anything but a raw diet either. That's pretty expensive as well.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Why not go to a shelter or rescue and rescue a young adult for your first dog? Figure out what you want in a dog, not just appearance but actual temperament, drive, biddability, even grooming needs. Spend time working with that dog and volunteering at a wolfdog sanctuary (see what happens to all of those wolfdogs and dogs that had the misfortune of being labeled wolfdogs when they actually weren't) and go from there. Maybe you will want a purebred dog from a breeder next or maybe you really will find that you want a wolfdog and have what it takes to own one.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Agreed. Almost every dog breed selector I've ever taken has recommended breeds that are completely wrong for me. You can also list the characteristics (temperament, energy level, grooming requirements, etc) that you want in a dog here, and people here will make breed suggestions for you. There's a wealth of dog experience here, I'd definitely take advantage of it.


Yeah I'll probably make a thread to get some suggestions thanks again everyone


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Mackenzie River huskies have wolf in many of their lines, and many of them have a wolfy look, but they've been bred for working with humans long enough that they're no more difficult than other huskies. I don't know how readily they're available to you southrons, though.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Wolffee said:


> Yeah I'll probably make a thread to get some suggestions thanks again everyone


Great idea. And I love what Remaru says here:


> Spend time working with that dog and volunteering at a wolfdog sanctuary (see what happens to all of those wolfdogs and dogs that had the misfortune of being labeled wolfdogs when they actually weren't) and go from there. Maybe you will want a purebred dog from a breeder next or maybe you really will find that you want a wolfdog and have what it takes to own one.


No one is saying to NEVER get a wolf dog, they're saying you need a lot more experience and knowledge first. Get a regular dog, volunteer with a wolfdog sanctuary, get that real life experience. And, forgive me if I'm wrong, but you sound very young, if I'm right, you have YEARS to make your wolf dog dream a reality, and when/if it happens, it will be so much more satisfying for the wait, because you'll have all the tools you need to do it right. And, you may also decide after spending time with real wolf dogs that owning a wolf dog ISN'T for you, and that's cool too.

Short personal story that sorta kinda relates, lol.

I adore snakes, have ever since I was a little girl, but couldn't have any growing up because my mom is terrified of them. When I finally was able to get one as an adult, I did tons of research first. Now, there are some stunning, amazing species of snake that are available in the hobby, many which are fairly rare, but still accessible, but require an advanced level of care. I could have gotten one of them, it was tempting, but instead, I chose one of the two most recommended species for beginners, the Corn Snake. I figured I could always get the more exotic species once I had more experience. And now that I have more experience, I have ... Corn Snakes, lol. Because I found that all the things that make them such great beginner snakes are also the things I love most about them, and those exotic species are really not at all suited to what I want out of snake ownership after all. I own 3 Corn Snakes now, and while there are a couple of different species I'm interested in owning, they are all from the same Colubrid family as Corn Snakes and all share the same general easy care requirements.

Just an example of how what you think you want and what you really want can be very different things sometimes.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

You'll love any dog you get, trust me. Dreaming is all well and good, but you fall in love with the dog that's in front of you. And there are many beautiful, fluffy northern mixes in shelters because even though they're pure dog, they're too much for some people to handle. (Keep in mind that most northern breeds are not good off-leash candidates and most don't do well in obedience, although if you found one mixed with a more biddable breed like a German Shepherd or Border Collie, you could get lucky.)

I agree that a real wolfdog would cost a lot of money. The $400-$600ish ones are most likely the scam ones I talked about. Those breeders will lie through their teeth and even give you falsified papers. I know Cindy has talked about that here before.


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## Kingfisher (Jan 2, 2015)

Ok. Ok ok ok. I'm not even sure where to begin.

First, I completely agree with everyone else that I think you have a very different idea of wolves/wolfdogs than what they really are.

How many wolf dogs have you met in person? I really, really, really hope you answer this question. I'm not trying to attack you, your answer will inform any further comments of mine. 

Second, you didn't respond to the "how old are you" question, so I won't ask it again. But, I can tell you are young. Probably teenager young. Sorry if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. I am 22 years old with a border collie. Do you have any idea where you're going to be in 5 years? I know I don't. Being young with a dog is hard enough, but being young (meaning, without a stable home) with a wolf dog is pretty much impossible. So you go off to college. Then what? Your parents have a wild animal stuck in their back yard? You try to uproot the dog and live in an apartment? Just, no. Please correct me if I'm wrong about your age.

Third, these animals are NOT TRAINABLE. Not like you imagine, at least. I'm sure you have beautiful visions of you walking cheek to cheek through town with a wolf, but that just isn't how it is. You will impress nobody with a wolf dog. Get a GSD, husky, ACD, etc. and train it to high levels of obedience and then you'll impress people. This is your FIRST DOG. You will not have an enjoyable experience with a wild animal. 

Fourth, if you think $1,400 is expensive, just imagine your legal fees when you try to bring your wild animal to the dog park and it mauls another dog. Or the countless times you will rebuild your enclosures. There's a reason zoos and sanctuaries have the enclosures they do. If someone's wolf dog injured my dog, you can be dang sure I'm going to seek repercussions. If you wanted a REAL wolf dog, you'll be paying several thousand dollars. Do not, at all, underestimate the costs of dog ownership. Then quadruple dog ownership when it comes to wolf dogs.

I'm going to stop here, because I could go all day. But seriously. You are going to get people and animals hurt, that includes yourself and your future "dog". Wolf dogs are not pets. You want a pet. If you really have dreams of a wolf dog, you don't have to give them up. But my goodness, at least own a couple of dogs first.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Too many pages to read right now....has the OP said where he/she lives?


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Kingfisher said:


> Ok. Ok ok ok. I'm not even sure where to begin.
> 
> First, I completely agree with everyone else that I think you have a very different idea of wolves/wolfdogs than what they really are.
> 
> ...


I met one Wolfdog in person, and saw a few real Wolves at zoos. But mostly just studied them online. And I'm nearly 18 thats why I have to wait before I can attend Dog Training School, just a few months to go. Yeah I realize I have a lot to learn. My parents (mostly my dad) was the one who suggested me to get a Wolfdog. Because he loved his so much and thought I could handle it. And everything hes told me in life has been right so I usually don't doubt him. I don't tend on moving anytime soon.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

It's highly unlikely that your dad's former dog had any wolf blood, and almost certainly was not even close to 87%. I'm sure he thought it was, but an animal like that would act like a wolf, not like a dog. Got any photos of it?


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Wolffee said:


> I met one Wolfdog in person, and saw a few real Wolves at zoos. But mostly just studied them online. And I'm nearly 18 thats why I have to wait before I can attend Dog Training School, just a few months to go. Yeah I realize I have a lot to learn. My parents (mostly my dad) was the one who suggested me to get a Wolfdog. Because he loved his so much and thought I could handle it. And everything hes told me in life has been right so I usually don't doubt him. I don't tend on moving anytime soon.


You don't intend on moving out of your parents house within the next decade? Have you informed them of this?


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Kingfisher makes an excellent point. I'm 25, and I became a dog trainer before I even had an opportunity to have my own dog. I just got her four months ago! The reason? School. And then I dropped out, worked a low pay job full time plus a part time job for five years, went back to school full time, plus I was moving approximately once a year (I live in an NYC suburb where short leases are common). When I left my low-pay full time job for my decently paying part time dog training gig (after years of study and mentoring by the way), it was time for a dog. I had been living at my current place for two years with no plans to move, I had time to raise a dog, and more importantly I felt I was ready for the responsibility and commitmen in time and finances. 

You're young. When I was 18 I thought I would be married by 22. I thought I'd have graduated college by now (not yet but almost!). 8 months ago I thought I was getting a Bouvier! Things change, and fast, and you're often not prepared for it.


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## Kingfisher (Jan 2, 2015)

Studying dogs online can be so deceptive. According to my research online, I'd love aussies. And yet, there's just...something....I don't get along with. Seeing wolf dogs in zoos is also not a realistic way to meet them. You need to meet dozens of these individuals before you decide that you like them. And you need to see them on their best behavior, and at their worst.

These dogs live for 10-15 years. You will relocate during that time. You need to plan on that ahead of time.

Lastly, you'd have to check with your programs, but I highly, highly doubt that you'd be allowed to bring a wolf dog. To school. That's waaaay too much liability for the program. Heck, lots of places prohibit intact animals, let alone ones who are literally half wild animal.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Hiraeth said:


> Oh, and I guess I'd like to add, you've made a few romantic statements about "aggression" and "drama".
> 
> There's nothing fun about aggressive or dramatic dogs. The two dogs I posted photos of are "dramatic". The white one has killed multiple cats, raccoon, rabbits, squirrels, snakes, opossum, skunks and a deer. If he slips out of my house, escapes my yard or yanks a leash out of my hand, the odds of another animal dying are high. The black dog had a legal reported bite history and put a kid in the hospital needing reconstructive surgery. He also had severe resource guarding issues and would attack anything that wasn't me that got within five feet of him when he had a toy. He required precisely managed confinement and I could never vacation or travel or go away overnight when I owned him because I couldn't trust anyone else to watch him.
> 
> That's drama and aggression. And believe me, after a little while of trying to manage that type of situation, it gets exhausting. Eventually all you'll want is a boring, "tame" dog who you can take to the pet store without worrying it's going to bite someone, or walk down the street without being paranoid about not noticing someone who is approaching with another dog, or let off leash in a field and just enjoy the day without wondering what the dog is going to find to kill. Drama and aggression was the story of my life for 6 years. And now that Atlas is older and Loki passed away, and I went out and got the one of the least dramatic and most people friendly breeds I could find. And it is such a relief.


This a million times. I had a GSD x Golden Retriever with severe dog aggression issues. He was also very, very smart, high energy, an escape artist and just generally a very difficult dog to own. (Muggsy in my sig. People asked me if he was part wolf all the time, lol.) I adored Muggsy. He was my soulmate. And when he died, I went out and got a small, stupid, friendly, lazy dog and I love it. Kabota is the dog equivalent of a vacation. I *can* handle an aggressive, intelligent, high energy dog and I never intend to do it again. You'll find most people who have our experience don't really care to repeat it.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Honestly I'm pretty skeptical about your father's "wolfdog". The fact that he then recommended his not even 18year old child get a wolfdog. Not the best recommendation, I would probably not even suggest my teenage child adopt a dog at all. Look, you are young. You may not intend to move anytime soon but things change. You do not have the appropriate set up for a wolfdog, nor do you really seem to understand much about wolves or wolfdogs. A real wolfdog is going to cost far more than $400-$600. Even a legitimate low content is going to cost you more than that. You are finding scam breeders. If you think $1400 is too much to spend on a dog then you probably want to go the rescue route for now. That assumes whoever you are living with is ok with you even having a dog.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Hiraeth said:


> You don't intend on moving out of your parents house within the next decade? Have you informed them of this?


 Yeah. They want me to stay forever. Maybe not that long, I was thinking about moving to Ireland a few years from now. But I hate the thought of being alone, thats another reason why I want a dog.


Crantastic said:


> It's highly unlikely that your dad's former dog had any wolf blood, and almost certainly was not even close to 87%. I'm sure he thought it was, but an animal like that would act like a wolf, not like a dog. Got any photos of it?


Theres an irl photo somewhere in the house but I'll have to find it. To me the picture looked like a red wolf. Its been a long time since I seen it. I'll try to hunt it down.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

CiElBie said:


> _The mysterious look in their eyes,_
> _Their beautiful pelts and appearance._
> _I've always lend towards dogs with pointed ears,_
> _haunting eyes, and fluffy bodies._
> ...


 Thanks for compiling these cute little quotes CiElBie, I thoroughly agree with your points. 

I've got to ask Wolffee........are you Team Jacob by chance. There really seems to be a lot of fantasy in what you think wolves are about and I can't figure out how you would ascribe those as realistic traits, let alone personality traits........

Should you get a wolf dog? You talk about how someone had to have it on a great big chain. That is a disgusting example of how to "care for" any animal, let alone a wild one. You think teaching tricks might be "asking too much", then you have no respect for the wild animal part of the "pet" you want. No. Short, easy answer to question one. Question 2, opinion on wolfdogs: Wolfdogs have the genetics of a wild animal, and if they are to be treated in any way as a domesticated animal, it should be done by someone highly experienced in that kind of animal, or by someone assisting and learning from someone highly experienced. 
Overall, when it comes to whether to get a wolfdog, chances are if it is a question you need to ask, the answer is no.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Greater Swiss said:


> Thanks for compiling these cute little quotes CiElBie, I thoroughly agree with your points.
> 
> I've got to ask Wolffee........are you Team Jacob by chance. There really seems to be a lot of fantasy in what you think wolves are about and I can't figure out how you would ascribe those as realistic traits, let alone personality traits........


Gross, I hate twilight. Wolffee is just a nickname my family gave me because I used to harass my neighbours aggressive huskies and bark at them for hours. I was so infatuated with wolves I started to think I was one when I was 10 and would publicly embarrass myself with k9 behavior.


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## Foxes&Hounds (Jun 7, 2014)

Wolffee said:


> Yeah. They want me to stay forever. Maybe not that long, I was thinking about *moving to Ireland a few years from now*.




Ireland has strict laws on normal dog breeds, never mind hybrids.
tosas, staffies, rotties, dobes, akitas, german shepherds, bull terriers, rhodesian ridgebacks, pit bulls and bullmastiffs (and crosses thereof) are all restricted and must be muzzled and secured in public at all times and cannot be handled alone by anyone under the age of 16.




> But I hate the thought of being alone, thats another reason why I want *a dog*.


So get a dog!

My Gwen, IMO, has the most beautiful, mysterious eyes.
But she's a dog. She's definitely legal, wants to be with me, wants to learn and nobody is at risk... except from maybe getting a black eye from an over exuberant greeting.












Sam is reactive. His breed used to beat up wolves for fun 
He is far less than 100+lbs but is 32" tall and extremely powerful. He is still a dog though. I wouldn't want the brain (even 25% of it...) of a wild apex predator in there while he's in meltdown mode. Drama is NOT fun and is definitely NOT something to be dreaming of........ Mentioning drama and aggression as desirables reinforces your inexperience here.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> Oh thanks,  going to read it now. I just found some other helpful websites and breeders too.
> http://www.pupsplus.com/whp_004.htm
> http://www.yadkinwolfden.com


Both of those are awful breeders.
If you purchase a puppy from yadkinwolfden, then you are getting ripped off. One they are big time misreppers, they're animals are no where near what they claim them to be. On top of that they are puppy millers. They go by several different names and have gotten in legal trouble several times. 

Same thing with the wolfhuskypups page. They are misreppers.

What state are you in? Different states have different rules on wolfdogs.
Wolfdogs do have a high prey drive so yes they may go after the neighbors cattle.
The type of fence you have around your property probably will not work. Wolfdogs, need a very high fencing at least 8 ft. tall, on top of that it can not be regular chain link, it has to be a much stronger gauge. Here's some of my pics for example. I had to use cattle panels which are 4 gauge to stop them from tearing it apart. Plus you must put down dig guard. They are trainable however they are much harder to train then regular dogs.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Foxes&Hounds said:


> Ireland has strict laws on normal dog breeds, never mind hybrids.
> tosas, staffies, rotties, dobes, akitas, german shepherds, bull terriers, rhodesian ridgebacks, pit bulls and bullmastiffs (and crosses thereof) are all restricted and must be muzzled and secured in public at all times and cannot be handled alone by anyone under the age of 16.
> 
> 
> ...


wow her eyes are amazing, and I never knew that about ireland thanks thats very helpful.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> Both personality and appearance I could write 100,000 words about why but that would take me hours or days. I guess theres this edge to anything dangerous that I like. Theres really not one thing I don't like about them, thats the point I'm trying to make. Theres no exact trait or traits that stick out to me. I just like everything from their intelligence, strong-will, aggression. There both challenging but loyal to their families and packs. Their leadership skills. And their attitude.


Aggression??? These are not aggressive animals. They would rather run and hide that confront someone they don't know even.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Cindy23323 said:


> Both of those are awful breeders.
> If you purchase a puppy from yadkinwolfden, then you are getting ripped off. One they are big time misreppers, they're animals are no where near what they claim them to be. On top of that they are puppy millers. They go by several different names and have gotten in legal trouble several times.
> 
> Same thing with the wolfhuskypups page. They are misreppers.
> ...


I think the fence is about 4ft. I checked my state and I do need a permit.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Wolffee said:


> Gross, I hate twilight. Wolffee is just a nickname my family gave me because I used to harass my neighbours aggressive huskies and bark at them for hours. I was so infatuated with wolves I started to think I was one when I was 10 and would publicly embarrass myself with k9 behavior.


Uhhhhhh.... Okay. Too much time on tumblr then?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Thanks so much for posting, Cindy, I was hoping you would share your knowledge here. 



Wolffee said:


> I think the fence is about 4ft. I checked my state and I do need a permit.


That fence won't be adequate for 90% of dogs, let alone a wolf dog, sadly.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

TSTrainer said:


> Uhhhhhh.... Okay. Too much time on tumblr then?


I don't use social media other then this website and youtube.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> I don't think I was romanticizing anything. There really is a mysterious look in a wolfs eyes. And a darkness. I don't see how that isn't true? Or maybe I just look at them weirdly. Like how people look at art differently.


There is no darkness or mysteriousness in they're eyes, lol


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> I think the fence is about 4ft. I checked my state and I do need a permit.


Which state is that?
And no a four ft fence will not work


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Cindy23323 said:


> Which state is that?
> And no a four ft fence will not work


I'd rather not say I don't like telling too much information but its in the south. And I'll have to measure the fence it has to be around 4 to 5ft. I'm starting to realize this might be a bad idea after all. lol


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Telling the state, does not give away exactly where you are. They're big states, lol. Not sure what state it is that your in that you are saying requires a permit, as most Southern states do not. Florida is the only one I can think of that requires you to get a type of permit and its not a permit but a Class II wild life liscence and that's only if its indistinguishable from a pure wolf. Oh and I forgot Mississippi does require a permit


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Cindy23323 said:


> Telling the state, does not give away exactly where you are. They're big states, lol. Not sure what state it is that your in that you are saying requires a permit, as most Southern states do not. Florida is the only one I can think of that requires you to get a type of permit and its not a permit but a Class II wild life liscence and that's only if its undistinguishable from a pure wolf. Oh and I forgot Mississippi does require a permit


My state said Wolf Hybrids are a Class III- ''This class requires no permits except those required by the department of agriculture, and includes all species not listed in other classes and includes, but is not limited to, those listed in subdivisions'' ??


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Cindy23323 said:


> Telling the state, does not give away exactly where you are. They're big states, lol. Not sure what state it is that your in that you are saying requires a permit, as most Southern states do not. Florida is the only one I can think of that requires you to get a type of permit and its not a permit but a Class II wild life liscence and that's only if its indistinguishable from a pure wolf. Oh and I forgot Mississippi does require a permit


I'm so glad you've arrived on this thread, Cindy. Thank you for yet again sharing your knowledge about wolf dogs  Oh, and more photos are welcome!


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

I don't know where you might be reading to know if you are reading old info or up to date info, whithout knowing what state you are in. All I can say is if it is Florida then that info is not true.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Tennessee, Cindy.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Cindy23323 said:


> I don't know where you might be reading to know if you are reading old info or up to date info, whithout knowing what state you are in. All I can say is if it is Florida then that info is not true.


No its not Florida its closer to your state. Do you know an updated website I could maybe check out? I couldn't find a date on the ones I've read.



Crantastic said:


> Tennessee, Cindy.


.-.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Oh I must of missed that then. Tennessee does not require permits


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> No its not Florida its closer to your state. Do you know an updated website I could maybe check out? I couldn't find a date on the ones I've read.


Tennessee as a state does not regulate wolfdogs. Only pure wolves need a permit, but it says they do not hand out permits to private people only places like zoo's etc.
However you would have to check your city law as a city or county can make them illegal even though the state itself is legal.
http://wolfology1.tripod.com/id180.htm

This is a website that you can search to see if a county or city is legal. https://www.municode.com/library/

However I'm not sure a wolfdog would be the best type of breed for what you are wanting. They are nothing like regular dogs, hard to train, and like I said high prey drive. On top of that they are naturally afraid of strangers, so even taking them to public places off your property could prove difficult. Plus the more wolf they have in them the more they will not be a indoor pet. They would destroy your home and everything in it, no matter how much training you give them.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> I'm really not sure why theres something special about it, and comforting at the same time. Two days ago I went to the store and saw some breeders selling Wolf-Chow mix pups. The owner had the mom with him too, and said she was full blooded Canadian Black Wolf. She was not. You could look at her fur, it was longer. Her tail was fluffy and more Border Collie like then Wolf. She did have a wolf look to her face and arms and you could tell there was some in her especially her ears, her ears were very wolf-like. The father was Chow with something Unknown mixed with him. He only wanted $100 for a pup. I thought it was still a good deal for even a quarter wolf.
> The weird thing was how the owner tried convincing us she was pure wolf, when she obviously wasn't. She looked almost exactly like the Wolf-Chow mix then she did a full blooded Canadian Wolf. Just like this picture but with a more Wolf face. Still kinda want one they were hard to resist


That dog in that picture has absolutely 0 wolf in it.


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Cindy23323 said:


> Tennessee as a state does not regulate wolfdogs. Only pure wolves need a permit, but it says they do not hand out permits to private people only places like zoo's etc.
> However you would have to check your city law as a city or county can make them illegal even though the state itself is legal.
> http://wolfology1.tripod.com/id180.htm
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the help! After all the information and advice I'm starting to lean towards a dog for now. Maybe in the feature I'll be able to get a Wolfdog.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> I thought about getting one, but all the ones I'm finding near me are twice as expensive as the Wolf hybrids I was looking at. I saw some Wolf hybrids for around $400 to $600 and the Tamaskan puppies were $1400 and up. That seems really expensive for a dog.


$400 to $600 for a wolfdog, then its from a rip off artist breeder and the dog doesn't actually have any wolf in them.
A true wolfdog is usually going for around $1500 to $3500


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Wolffee said:


> Thanks for all the help! After all the information and advice I'm starting to lean towards a dog for now. Maybe in the feature I'll be able to get a Wolfdog.


Northern breed dogs could help prepare you for a slight bit of what you would be in store for if you did decide that you wanted one in the future. I used to own huskies when I was growing up.

Here is one that I still have that we rescued, not positive if he's pure husky, could just be a poorly bred one. He was given the label of wolfdog when he was in AC, but if there is actually any in him, which I highly doubt then its not even worth mentioning.


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Wolffee said:


> Thanks for all the help! After all the information and advice I'm starting to lean towards a dog for now. Maybe in the feature I'll be able to get a Wolfdog.


:clap2:

Yay! Another happy ending (I hope)! I love this place  

I'm soooo glad you took the advice you were given here to heart. Maybe some day, when the time is right, you can give a rescue wolfdog a proper, loving home. I really hope it happens for you - but ONLY when the time is right. If I were you, I would be jumping on any opportunity to volunteer at the rescue/sanctuary you had mentioned wasn't far from you. You want a wolfy fix? That's the perfect place to start!


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## Na-Tasha (Aug 13, 2014)

After reading through this thread, I thought I would add my "wolfdog" and normal dog learning experiences. When I was in _college_, living in an _apartment_, I had romanticized ideas about wolves and wolf dogs as well. I really wanted one, more than anything. I did zero research and figured they could be trained like any other dog. Problem was at that time I had limited experience in dealing with even regular dogs. Then I saw a newspaper ad, selling "Timberwolf/GSD mix" puppies for very cheap (I can't remember exactly how much, but less than $300). I was completely naive and it was of course a scam involving just badly bred GSD pups. I was very fortunate it was a scam and didn't end up with an actual wolf dog! Looking back I now know it was just a normal pup behaving like a normal GSD... and I had problem after problem because I was very inexperienced in raising dogs properly. It was the beginning of my difficult education in dog ownership. 
This is a photo of a photo, but he's the one on the left:










A few years after I graduated college and had moved back to Missouri, I ended up with these dogs:










The big one was Budro, he gave me my dog education in dealing with dog aggression. He was everything I ever wanted in a dog in terms of looks and temperament (complete guess, but was probably a GSD/Husky, he was a rescue from Arkansas). However, he after he was attacked by the neighbors dog he ended up being aggressive to dogs outside of his family. He often escaped my yard due to our poorly maintained fence. He taught me that I don't ever want a dog with dog aggression ever again. I loved that dog, but he caused me a lot of worry and stress.










The little one turned into a firecracker! Smart as a whip and his energy knew no bounds! He had a lot of energy and was forever on the move. He taught me that I had limits in the amount of energy I could deal with in a dog. He also escaped the yard, because the measly four foot fence was no problem for him to hop over. An amazing dog that caused me a lot of stress because I couldn't keep up with his endless energy.

I learned a lot from my dogs of the past. I'm still learning from my current dog. I think some of the dogs of my past suffered from my inexperience an impulsiveness. I wish I could go back and undo some of my mistakes, but unfortunately that can't happen.

You have a great opportunity with such knowledgeable people here and the resource of a wolf sanctuary so close to you is another amazing opportunity. I hope you take advantage of the sanctuary and get some first hand experience and knowledge. I really wish I had had that experience when I was younger. Good luck in your search for a future dog!


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## Wolffee (May 8, 2016)

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to check out the sanctuary and volunteer there most likely. Also going to go around some shelters and dogs and try getting a feel for them. I appreciate everyone for sharing their stories and advice with me. It helps out learning from so many k9 owners.


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

Ah, I love it when they see the light. I sort of skimmed the last few pages, but I'll go ahead and say what I was going to say anyway.

I won't debate the ethics aspect of having a wolf dog. But the thing that stands out MOST to me based on the initial post, and what I'd be hugely concerned about is this:

2 Acres & a short fence. That's not enough... Sure, it's a sizeable yard. But WAY too small for this.
The Farmer Neighbor. This is a HUGE deal. To me this would be the deal breaker. You simply canNOT knowingly risk the lives of your neighbor's livestock. You just can't. It's completely irresponsible, and you'd be heartbroken if the neighbor had to end up shooting your "wolfdog" because it was killing calves. And believe me, that would be totally justified.

So anyway, those two factors alone would be enough for me to advise strongly against this... breed, for lack of a better term. I like the idea of you volunteering though, I think that should give you an outlet for the type of exposure you're looking for in a safe and controlled environment.


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## Wirehairedvizslalove (Oct 24, 2015)

There are many dog breeds that I admire, but when it comes down to it, those breeds do not fit my lifestyle. Take for example, I'm obsessed with the Belgian Malinios, I love their drive and especially their looks. Will I ever own one? Absolutely not. Some breeds are just better to watch from a distance than to own


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