# Location of Puppy Potty in Yardless Townhome



## mixxy (Aug 16, 2011)

I am in the process of adopting a 4-month old pug/shih tzu pup and I'm having a very frustrating time deciding upon a place for her to go potty. I live in a 3-story townhome with no yard of my own; there is a sizable porch off the lower level. I'm trying to decide whether to train her to go on a fake-grass potty on the porch or on absorbent pads in a rubber container or dog litter in the basement. I think it would be useful to train her to go out on the porch, so that when we visit family or friends, she will know not to go in their house either. But a potty in the basement would be useful for her to have access to at all times on her own. 

My concern is whether a dog can be properly trained to seek out a specific spot in the house - if I've trained her in a confined space to go on the pads/litter, will she actually seek them out in the basement once her territory is expanded to the whole house (say if we're upstairs)?

Also, I'm wondering about the feasibility of moving the potty downstairs once she is getting the hang of the potty-training. My basement is unfinished, so instead of confining her there all alone during training, I was hoping to put a gate in one of the spare bathrooms to create a confined space for her crate, food, and potty. But I'm anxious about then transitioning the potty downstairs to the basement.

Basically, I'm not sure what would work best. I'm very nervous about making the right choices to properly house-train my puppy! Any opinions and experiences would be greatly appreciated!


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

If you properly train your pup to go on pads, that should carry over to all pads and not the location where the pad was placed. For example, for people who start with pads and then gradually move outside, they teach their pups to go on pads first and gradually move it closer and closer to the door. The puppy follows the pad and is not commited to one spot.

That said, it may or may not be wise to pad train your dog, then suddenly let her have free roam of a large house and suddenly move the pad to a whole new area. Maybe gradually increase the amount of freedom she has so that she will continue to go to the pad when she needs to. Or, if you want to give her a large space after she's been pad trained, make the pad(s) easily accessible at first then gradually move them away to where you want them to be permanently. 
On the other hand, she might just learn very quickly that the pad is the ONLY place to go. 
It's hard to tell right now, especially if you haven't even adopted your dog yet. But no matter what you do, just do it slowly so you can catch yourself and move back a few steps if things don't seem to be working


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't like teaching on pads because you're basically teaching the dog it is okay to go indoors. Plus the pads can easily be confused for other surfaces.

There's no grass outside you can use?


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

HerdersForMe said:


> I don't like teaching on pads because you're basically teaching the dog it is okay to go indoors. Plus the pads can easily be confused for other surfaces.
> 
> There's no grass outside you can use?


Gotta agree. I'm completely against teaching dogs to do their business indoors. It is not natural for them, and regardless of your situation, I believe you OWE it to your dog to take them outside. 

There has to be a patch of grass/gravel/sidewalk/etc SOMEWHERE outside that's nearby. 

If you're worried about properly house training your puppy, DON'T house train inside (in my opinion)...


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Are you expecting to walk your dog?


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## lisahi (Jun 19, 2011)

There are some situations when using pads is a necessity. Not everybody has options to always take out their puppy when they need to go. In an ideal world, we would all be able to take off work and put our puppy out in a nice, fenced-in back yard every 2-3 hours. Or in that ideal world, we would have the option to hire a dogwalker or have a neighbor come over to take our puppy out. In an ideal world the weather would be optimal for the puppy to go outside when she needs to go.

I don't live in ideal world, and I don't think the OP does either. I live in an extremely hot environment where outside time is in very short intervals, in an apartment with neighbors who throw old food, garbage and cigarrette butts in the grass. I live in a city that does not have any dogwalkers and I can only afford daycare twice a week. Pads are necessary. And my 4.5 month old puppy is fully pad trained--without me even trying to train her. I do take her out when I can (in the morning, during lunch, after work and before bed), but that's really not going to prevent her from having to go in between those times. And I won't be crating her until I know her bladder is fully developed and she can hold it while I'm away.

I think pads are a very viable option for those whose lives require them. It's not cruel for the dog. Housetraining for outside is a human convenience (and yes, one I would eventually like to have happen for my puppy). Dogs live in a human world, and using the bathroom on a pad is no more unnatural than walking them on a leash instead of letting them run free.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Just to add my opinion, I would pick a spot and stick with it. I wouldn't move it around as your puppy earns more freedom in the house. 

The thing I learned about pads way back when my first puppy came to us is that, with some pups, it gives them the idea that they can pee on anything remotely pad-like. Some pups/dogs are very particular about what type of surface they like to go on. So, our boy went on pads in the beginning, and then started to think it was also acceptable to go on door mats, bath mats, throw rugs, etc. Never in the carpeted bedrooms or hardwood floors, just on small pad-like items!  Thankfully, that was right about the time we moved out of the apartment and into the house, so we were able to transition to pottying outside.

My concern would be if you move the pad around from spot to spot, your pup may decide it's ok to go pee anywhere in the house that has some pad-like.

My personal preference would be to train to a grass patch on the patio, so he gets the idea that going outside is right, and then, also work on having him pee/poop on his walks, as well. Of course, the problem with this is, when he's a very young puppy he won't be able to hold it longer than 2 hours, give or take, when you're away from home, so what do you do then? For that situation, I would confine him to one area, have that be the only area he's confined to (hopefully not carpet) and clean up with an enzymatic cleaner when you get home. 
Then, when you want to give him more freedom, expand from your original spot....


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

lisahi said:


> I think pads are a very viable option for those whose lives require them.


I agree that pads are an option for those whose lives require them, but I also believe that more often than not, you can find a way around relying on them.



lisahi said:


> It's not cruel for the dog.


Agreed.



lisahi said:


> Housetraining for outside is a human convenience.


I have to completely disagree. House training INSIDE is a human convenience. Altering the instinctual nature of our dog's need to eliminate outdoors is a human convenience. And while your situation certainly makes it difficult to potty train outdoors, we are addressing the OP's specific situation. 

*mixxy*, I would strongly urge you to reconsider and think hard about how you could make outdoor potty training happen. Is there a patch of grass a few minutes away you can walk her to? She's already 4 months old, so you're probably not starting from scratch here. Has she already learned to defecate outdoors? If so, you will most likely confuse her by asking her to defecate indoors.


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## Ginagbaby1 (Jul 26, 2011)

I live in a two story townhouse with no yard of our own either but we do have a fairly large patio. Our community does have a lot of nice grassy area that's kept clean but because he didn't have all his shots and there's a lot of other doggies here, we didn't want him walking around. When we first got him at 8 weeks we had to use pee pads for about a week and a half cause of work we were having done on the patio. After the work was done we put a litter box on the patio and he will pee in it sometimes. Other times he will just pee on the cement and he will poop on the cement. (Our goal is to get him to pee and poop in the litterbox). Once we had him potty on the patio, we left the pads done just in case but he would grab them and take off running/playing with them so we got rid of them completely and focused only on having him potty on the patio. We also hung bells from a string next to the patio and ring those everytime we take him out to potty, and we also put a canopy over half the patio so that he's covered and stays dry if it's raining. I'm lucky in that I'm a stay at home mom and am usually around for most of the day but I agree with the Lisahi, sometimes you just have no other option...


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> Housetraining for outside is a human convenience





> House training INSIDE is a human convenience.


I think a dog's instincts lean toward peeing and pooping wherever and whenever nature calls (as long as it's not too close to the places for eating and sleeping.) ANY housetraining is a human convenience. 

The pee-and-poop-wherever-and-whenever-I-feel-like-it thing is inconvenient for the humans, though some seem not to care. Often, they end up on Discovery Channel documentaries or bad reality TV shows.

Whether you choose to train your dog to toilet inside or out, recognize that dogs are creatures of habit. They will have some difficulty switching between the two.

In the olden days (remember, Wvasko?) before we had pee pads, people would paper train puppies using newspapers. (Some newspapers were, and continue to be, only useful for lining bird cages and paper training puppies, or perhaps wrapping fish guts.) These same people would be surprised and appalled when that same dog would pee on the sports page before dad was done reading it, or maybe WHILE dad was reading it. 

Whatever you teach a dog to do today, make sure that's what you'll want him to do tomorrow.


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## mixxy (Aug 16, 2011)

Thank-you so much for all of the replies! I'll just clarify a bit.



HerdersForMe said:


> There's no grass outside you can use?


There is a common area outside my back door, where the porch is; it is undeveloped yet, but even when it is done, as I live in a condo development, animal elimination on the grass is frowned upon. I could take her out across the street and pick up her waste every time she needs to go, but honestly, I'm trying to be realistic about what's going to work for both of us...I'm thinking that a small dog will need go many times a day and am I going to take her out across the street every single time? Does that sound terrible?! Again, I'm trying to be realistic.



RonE said:


> Are you expecting to walk your dog?


Oh my gosh, of course! I am planning on taking her out often and letting her go while we are out, but again, I'm trying to be realistic about the every day situation of having a dog. I really hope it's not selfish of me to think that I can't basically take her for a walk every time she has to go...

I was afraid that the pads would eventually confuse the dog and she would end up going anywhere...I'm leaning towards the grass potty on the porch. Do you think dog litter might work better if I do want to try inside? Does anyone have experience using it?


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Grass potty on the porch might be a good option, as it still constitutes as outside rather than inside.

And I agree for the most part; I am not a fan of pad training and would not choose that as my first option. But seeing as how the OP asked for advice on that topic and given her living conditions, I told her what I knew about pad training instead of immediately telling her what a horrible choice it is. Otherwise, there's plenty of advice on housebreaking your dog on this forum.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

mixxy said:


> There is a common area outside my back door, where the porch is; it is undeveloped yet, but even when it is done, as I live in a condo development, animal elimination on the grass is frowned upon. I could take her out across the street and pick up her waste every time she needs to go, but honestly, I'm trying to be realistic about what's going to work for both of us...I'm thinking that a small dog will need go many times a day and am I going to take her out across the street every single time? Does that sound terrible?! Again, I'm trying to be realistic.


Doesn't sound that serious to me. What's the problem with crossing the street? You would take her outside in a normal situation anyway...you just need to walk a little bit too. 

If anything use the fake grass on the porch solution for those occasions you don't want to take her out. Try to take her outside as much as you can though.


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## lisahi (Jun 19, 2011)

> House training INSIDE is a human convenience.


lol. I suppose that depends on what you consider convenient. I don't consider spending money on expensive pads, removing them and disposing of them all that convenient, especially since I like to keep my place very clean.

I agree that pad training is not _optimal_, but sometimes there really isn't a _realistic_ alternative. There may be an aspirational alternative--for example, the OP taking the puppy across the street every time the puppy has to go. But I don't think we know enough facts yet to ascertain whether that's really realistic. Sometimes puppies need to go, and need to go _now_. Across the street might as well be several miles away.

To the OP--do some research on the fake grass option. Since it's on the patio, you may not be as concerned as I was about the smell that can develop, even when you clean the fake grass. Even the self-cleaning systems get negative reviews for building up an odor. I chose pads instead of fake grass because I don't have a viable patio or outside area, and I didn't want the fake grass to smell up my apartment. At least I could quickly dispose of the pads.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Depending on the size of your patio, you could use a real sod patch.....I've read of others here using them, but, I don't know the particulars.


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## mixxy (Aug 16, 2011)

Again, thank-you all so much for your help! 

I've decided to use the grass potty on the porch and see how that goes. I bought the Potty Patch version, because it was cheap, so I'll see how she likes it. If it works, I will upgrade to the Pet Loo brand.  I will also try to take her across the street as often as possible.

I'm going to put a baby gate in my spare bathroom doorway and plan to put her crate, toys, food, and water in there until she is house-trained. My question is: should I place a training pad in there for "emergencies" or should I skip the pads altogether while training her? I've read a bunch of house-training articles, including the ones on this board, and some say to use the pads in conjunction with taking her out every hour to go potty outside and some say to forego the pads altogether. What works best? Will the pads confuse her and make her think she can go inside?


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

mixxy said:


> I'm going to put a baby gate in my spare bathroom doorway and plan to put her crate, toys, food, and water in there until she is house-trained. My question is: should I place a training pad in there for "emergencies" or should I skip the pads altogether while training her? I've read a bunch of house-training articles, including the ones on this board, and some say to use the pads in conjunction with taking her out every hour to go potty outside and some say to forego the pads altogether. What works best? Will the pads confuse her and make her think she can go inside?


Will she not be crated? I don't see the need for a training pad in your spare bathroom if she will be in her crate. Regardless, my immediate reaction is not to encourage her to defecate near her food,water and crate, or "den". Others can jump in here, but that's what I'm thinking...


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

Also keep in mind, this is a 4 month old puppy, not 2 month old puppy. I wouldn't leave potty pads for a 4 month old pup. She will likely tear them up. She will have one accident while you are at work. Just clean it up when you get home.


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## mixxy (Aug 16, 2011)

HerdersForMe said:


> Also keep in mind, this is a 4 month old puppy, not 2 month old puppy. I wouldn't leave potty pads for a 4 month old pup. She will likely tear them up. She will have one accident while you are at work. Just clean it up when you get home.


Sounds good, thank-you. The great part is that I have a couple more weeks off work, so I have a decent amount of time to get started with her and won't have to leave her alone much, except maybe to go get groceries or something!


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

HerdersForMe said:


> Also keep in mind, this is a 4 month old puppy, not 2 month old puppy. I wouldn't leave potty pads for a 4 month old pup. She will likely tear them up. She will have one accident while you are at work. Just clean it up when you get home.


Yes, she's a 4 month old pup, but anytime a pup goes to a new home, or even an adult dog for that matter, it's a good idea to go back to the basics of potty training, to teach her how things will work at her new home.

In a bathroom, there may be enough room to place the crate on one side, with water and toys near, and the pad on the other side, should you choose to use it. Also, they make several styles of trays to secure puppy pads so a puppy can tear/chew it up.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

doxiemommy said:


> Yes, she's a 4 month old pup, but anytime a pup goes to a new home, or even an adult dog for that matter, it's a good idea to go back to the basics of potty training, to teach her how things will work at her new home.


I didn't realize potty pads were needed at all for housebreaking. I've never used them.

But in all seriousness, that wasn't my point. My point was a 4 month old pup is probably more likely to spend her morning tearing apart the potty pad than actually using it.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

doxiemommy said:


> In a bathroom, there may be enough room to place the crate on one side, with water and toys near, and the pad on the other side, should you choose to use it. Also, they make several styles of trays to secure puppy pads so a puppy can tear/chew it up.


Haha, my papillon's breeder uses those when she has puppies in the house. They work great, but then her puppies seem to think they can pee on her boot/shoe tray, which looks similar. 



mixxy said:


> I could take her out across the street and pick up her waste every time she needs to go, but honestly, I'm trying to be realistic about what's going to work for both of us...I'm thinking that a small dog will need go many times a day and am I going to take her out across the street every single time? Does that sound terrible?! Again, I'm trying to be realistic.


It's literally across the street? I don't see the big deal there... if this were a tiny baby puppy that had to go out every hour or two (and had to go _rightnow_, as tiny puppies do), then yeah. But a pup that's four months can usually already hold it a few hours at least. A pug/shih-tzu isn't going to be a tiny dog with a tiny bladder, either. That dog should end up somewhere between my two in size (my papillon is 9lbs and my AKK 18lbs). Both of mine are comfortable holding it for five or six hours, and can hold it eight or more if they have to. At night they've been known to sleep 10-12 hours with no complaints.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

HerdersForMe said:


> I didn't realize potty pads were needed at all for housebreaking. I've never used them.
> 
> But in all seriousness, that wasn't my point. My point was a 4 month old pup is probably more likely to spend her morning tearing apart the potty pad than actually using it.


They're totally not needed, and the ironic point is, I generally wouldn't recommend them at all! I'm actually pretty anti-potty pad, if there is such a thing. LOL! 
I have to admit I used them with our first puppy, because we were in an apartment and the nearest outside potty area was pretty far away. BUT, I believe using the pads lead our little guy to think it was ok to pee on anything remotely pad-like, like throw rugs, door mats, bath mats....so I usually like to suggest people avoid using pads for that reason.
In the discussion for this thread, some people have suggested them, and if the OP wants to use them, I'm just putting my 2 cents in regarding where to put them, and using the trays, and such.

And, I guess you're right, a 4 month old usually is into some pretty heavy duty mischief!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

> The thing I learned about pads way back when my first puppy came to us is that, with some pups, it gives them the idea that they can pee on anything remotely pad-like. Some pups/dogs are very particular about what type of surface they like to go on. So, our boy went on pads in the beginning, and then started to think it was also acceptable to go on door mats, bath mats, throw rugs, etc.


That's my experience as well. Mia came 'pad trained' and the end result was a dog that for a year thought that she was allowed to pee on anything potty pad like. She is a VERY smart dog but she just never got that a pad was different than a rug or a mat. 

I think the fake grass outside is a MUCH better idea.


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