# Tricks of the Month for November: Limp and Crawl



## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

Hey everyone!

So, the tricks of the month for November will be Limp and Crawl. 

A thread on how to teach the Limp can be found here: http://www.dogforums.com/3-dog-training-forum/37593-training-limp.html 

Post your progress, any problems you are having, and feel free to help each other to accomplish the tricks!

If your dog already knows how to do these tricks, take this as an opportunity to freshen them up, or improve them! (Can your dog crawl backwards? )

Have fun!


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

Awesome!! It looks like I better get started on teaching the basic "shake" first.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Great, I'll have to get started right away


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

I guess we'd better do 'shake' too! Anyone got tips for teaching 'shake' with the clicker?


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

I taught shake and high five starting with paw targeting my hand on the floor. You have to be quick so you only get the foot, or you'll have to waste time clicking the nose out of the picture. I gradually moved my hand up for the high five, and gradually lengthened the touch and closed my hand on the dog's paw for shake. You could skip that, just do the paw target and gradually lift it to go on to the limp behavior as shown in the video.


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

BarclaysMom said:


> I guess we'd better do 'shake' too! Anyone got tips for teaching 'shake' with the clicker?


Glad I'm not the only one starting from the very beginning. I did start teaching shake toaday and Dallas did pretty good. I don't use a clicker. I just took her paw and said "shake" and gave her a treat, after awhile she got it.,Once she gave me her left paw, as I was shaking it, she raised her right paw! I gues she thought if she did 2 paws, she'd get 2 treats!
Oh, I read in a book that yous hould use the leash and sling the paw in the leash to teach the limping trick. But if I took out the leash Dallas would go nuts thinkng we're going for a walk.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

Yeah that's how I taught shake lol, Just picked up her paw lol, it's worked better than other methods I've tried.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Another way to teach shake or high five is to start with a treat in closed fist. Since Dakota is a short dog I had to sit on the floor to do this, but if your dog is bigger you could probably kneel or even bend over. Anyway, holding the treat enclosed in my hand I would present it to Dakota while she was in a sit position. I would then encourage her to 'touch' my hand with an excited voice, usually saying "What's that?" as I'd often used the same words to get her excited at a toy in my hand. Dakota, already smelling the treat, would then work enthusiastically to get to it. Since her nose proved useless (I didn't react to any use of her nose, simply waiting it out and continued encouraging her to 'investigate'. She then quickly tried pawing at my hand instead. The moment her paw touched my closed fist I praised (or clicked) and treated her heavily. We then repeated the process during several sessions (adding in use of the word 'Shake') until the point that Dakota didn't even bother to try with her nose, but rather went strait to offering her paw. Once that behavior was down pat I was able to simply open my hand (minus the treat) ask her to Shake and up her paw would come. I dunno, maybe that sounds more complicated then Pampered's approach but it worked well enough for us. Dakota is really food motivated and already was pretty 'foot oriented' in that she uses her feet a lot to dig, grab, play, etc - so that may be why it worked too.

Once Shake is learned, High Five and even Wave become insanely easily as they are really just offshoots of the same behavior.


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

I used the same method Dakota said and my puppy learned shake in a few min. Now I'm just working on shaking with the paw that I want. He is doing pretty good with it but sometimes he gets confused and shakes with the wrong paw. 

Limp looks like a fun trick to train! I'm excited to start working on this  

Dan


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

He'll probably get it pretty quick if I just go the 'pick up a paw' route. He's already learned to take treats politely, so I can't get him to paw at my hand for anything, he just sits there making eye contact like 'I'm being polite, what more could you possibly want?'


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

Does anyone happen to know of a video for teaching crawl like the one for limp?


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

CRAWL

This is very easy to teach when you use something like a target stick. 

To begin, have your dog lay DOWN. Stand close, holding the tip of the target stick near the ground in front of him. Use your TOUCH command. Click and reward him each time he touches the tip of the target stick with his nose. Gradually, have him stretch a bit, while maintaining the DOWN position in order to touch it. Continue to click and reward. 

At some point, you will place the target stick just a little too far from the dog’s nose, so he will have to creep forward in order to make contact. Click and reward when the dog moves forward without standing, or putting his butt up in the air. 

Gradually have the dog creep forward more and more. As your dog starts catching on to the CRAWL behavior, fade away the use of the TOUCH command. As you continue training, focus on clicking improved crawling, with less emphasis on him actually making contact with the target stick, so with continued practice, the dog will learn it's the crawling behavior you're rewarding, rather than the TOUCH. 

Once he can easily crawl a couple of feet forward, add a new command (CRAWL). Gradually, hold the target stick further away in front of him, just using it as a kind of focal point, rather than something he needs to TOUCH. With practice, he will learn to crawl on command, while you fade away the use of the target stick.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

Here's a video I found that teaches the crawl. It's pretty much the way I taught it, except I placed my hand over Libby's butt at the beginning to prevent her from popping up into a play bow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFuboBvGFa0

ANNNNNNND...

Here's a video I made this past weekend on the beginning of our "limp" training! In this video I'm following the method from the youtube video, and Libby was holding her paw up to my hand. You can see that I also started trying to ease her forward to get the first hop, but she didn't get it. At the end I also had her crawl... we knew that one from before, but I want to work on her crawling without having to have my hand on the floor, as well as distance. (Please excuse the fact that it's rotated... I can't seem to flip it in Photobucket. Also, pardon my PJ pants!)



We've worked on "limp" for 3 sessions since this video was taken, and in the third session (tonight) I actually got her to hop forward! I now have her hopping twice in succession! I didn't get a video... darn camera batteries were dead!! 

How is everyone else doing?


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

Gosh, Barclay was just not getting the 'shake' thing, so I decided to try the target stick. It was funny because trying to teach shake by picking up his foot you could see he was just going 'I don't know WHAT the heck you're doing!', but now when he sees the stick he's very excited! His little eyes just light up! So since he likes to touch the stick with his nose I think we should be able to work on crawl (looks like a nice sit-up will be easy to do too ).

Any advice for going from touching the stick with his nose to touching it with his paw?


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Squeeker said:


> How is everyone else doing?


We're about the same spot as you, Squeeker. Dakota is pretty good about picking up her paw when I ask (I'm fairly certain she just thinks I'm asking for Shake in a weird position) and will even hop forward a bit. HOWEVER, she will not yet hold her leg up on her own. I have to be there cupping it in my hand to get those few hops and they aren't really all that 'put together' yet. Meaning the movement itself is still rather sloppy  We'll see though. I wasn't quite sure if we were at Limp level when I started but figured I'd give a try anyway. 

On the other side, crawl is also going pretty well. I skipped the part of having Dakota target the treat and moved right into holding it just far enough away from her that she has to creep forward...thus far it's been a success. If you've read my "Need Some Tips" thread that it details how Dakota was already in the habit of creeping forward be it while in a sit or down, so I think this one will definitely be the easier of the two to pick up.

Oh also, I checked one of my books the other day and noticed that it too had a method for teaching crawl. I can't say much as far as how well the method works or anything along those lines, but I figured some may just be interested in seeing another approach to the trick. This method DOES suggest placing a hand on the dogs shoulder at some steps of the exercise. Anyway, here's how they advise teaching crawl...



> _Equipment:_
> Leash, treats, a low table or bench.
> 
> _Steps:_
> ...


Once again, I am not necessarily endorsing this method or saying it's the best way to go - I just like looking at different ways people suggest teaching the same thing. Also, I find it helps to sometimes take bits from different training methods to add to your own.

Anyway, I'll update again when there's been more progress . I'm definitely liking this little 'club' type thing.


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

[QUOTE How is everyone else doing?[/QUOTE]

Cool video. Well, Dallas has learned shake. I'm trying to teach limp just by asking for her paw and leading her a few steps with her paw in my hand, then I give her a treat. I think she will get it eventually.


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## ShadowSky (Aug 6, 2008)

Squeeker said:


> How is everyone else doing?


It's going well so far. Buck has no problem holding his paw up on his own, it took him a very short amount of time to figure out that 'right' was now his cue for a standing shake basically and that holding his paw up by himself earned him a treat. He seems to have no problem holding his paw up for long periods of time so far, even standing... must be from years of shake  He'd been working on Crawl before anyways in earning treats, so now that matter is making it so he responds to the cue WITHOUT the lure.

Jake meanwhile... 

He knows the cue 'right foot' as lifting his foot while standing or sitting already(cue being me lifting MY right foot... lol), however he doesn't hold it up... so I've been having to help him out. Haven't worked on it too terrible much so far, with school and the fact that I wasn't allowed to do much of anything that required moving around these past two weeks ish, but he's making progress for sure. Crawl is coming along well, have to keep an eye out for his butt popping up still and I've been weeding out the food lure.


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

Awesome guys!

I'm at around the same stage as you guys.. If I put my hand by his side he will lift his paw up and hold it there for about 10 seconds or so (sometimes less but 10 is about his max). He is starting to understand that I want him to keep it up there though because the length of time has increased a lot today. He has also taken a couple sloppy steps like that. I wish I had a camera to make a video of his progress. 

Though I ran into a problem because I had recently taught him to spin away from me on either side of my body.. He was getting the two behaviors mixed up.. When I would give the hand signal for the spin he would lift his paw instead, etc. I think I got that worked out now though. 

I look forward to hearing everyone's progress. 

Dan

P.S Thanks for the info on crawl.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

I made a video of Libby's progress in "Limp" again tonight!



Watching yourself train your dog on video is so educational... I see so many times where I was late in clicking (or didn't click at all, but Libby has also been trained with the word "yes"), so I see what I need to do to make her understand better! 

I see now that I might have hurried this too much. I need to back up a step because, for some reason, she thinks she has to touch her nose to my face when she hops. I also need to get her to hold her foot up on her own now , as she is still resting it on my hand a bit.

We're also working on "crawl" without a lure, but no video of that one tonight.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

I see I'm a bit behind 

I'm thinking I'll try and teach Coal the Limp and Linkin the Crawl (since they are both at different levels when it comes to tricks).

If I can I'll post videos, but I don't have my own video camera. My dad's digital camera has video on it though, so I'm sure I could snag it once in a while, it's just that it's for work so he doesn't always have it with him.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Help needed with crawl...I can get her to crawl and follow my hand along the floor. How do I transition to standing and giving her a hand gesture/vocal command to crawl?


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

winniec777 said:


> Help needed with crawl...I can get her to crawl and follow my hand along the floor. How do I transition to standing and giving her a hand gesture/vocal command to crawl?


Having not yet reached that point, I can only recommend the method I will be using. I'm not sure how successful it will be...

I plan to try something similar to the way crate time is extended, for example - in little increments. Once Dakota has the actual crawl down to the point where she is going farther then one or two scoots, I will slowly begin to rise further and further up. For example, say you are sitting down when you first start training the crawl. My first step would probably be moving into a crouch. I would then progress to standing a bit straighter, then a bit straighter, then a bit straighter, etc until I was standing straight up and able to give the command without bending over to lead her. The treat would be phased out at the same time as my hand would progressively move away from her (naturally as I stood up) until it was no longer useful as a lead and could be phased out completely. 

Does that make sense? I would probably take a training session or two for each new position (crouch, and then each new degree of straighter posture) and see how that goes.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Thanks, Dakota. That makes sense. I'll try it. This is one of those tricks where I wish I had a small dog to make it easier. Stretched out in a full crawl Poca is about 5 feet+ long -- makes it hard to scoot fast enough on the floor to stay ahead of her nose as she's creeping along!


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

> Help needed with crawl...I can get her to crawl and follow my hand along the floor. How do I transition to standing and giving her a hand gesture/vocal command to crawl?


I am acutally working on this right now, and I plan to do it in the same way I transitioned from hand gestures to voice cues when I taught Libby to "sit", "stand", and "down":

Libby's cue for "crawl" right now is to wiggle my hand on the floor. I am going to teach her to crawl when I say "crawl" by first saying the word, and waiting a second or two. If she crawls, JACKPOT! If not, I will cue her by wiggling my hand on the floor.

Repeat, repeat, repeat... until when I say "crawl" she crawls BEFORE I have to cue her with the hand motion near the floor... and then, JACKPOT!!!

I'll do the same thing with a hand signal at chest-level instead of having my hand at the floor.

Hope that makes sense...?


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

PROGRESS UPDATE!

I backed up a few steps and Libby is now holding her paw up on her own, and limping a hop or two foreward... this time WITHOUT bonking me in the face with her nose! WOOO!

No progress with crawl, though... it's not her favourite trick, that's for sure. Working on it, though!


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

Squeeker said:


> PROGRESS UPDATE!
> 
> I backed up a few steps and Libby is now holding her paw up on her own, and limping a hop or two foreward... this time WITHOUT bonking me in the face with her nose! WOOO!
> 
> No progress with crawl, though... it's not her favourite trick, that's for sure. Working on it, though!


Wow, I am getting no where with Dallas on the Limp trick. I'm not sure if it's me not teaching her correctly, or if it's her just not getting it. Probably me.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

musicmom116 said:


> Wow, I am getting no where with Dallas on the Limp trick. I'm not sure if it's me not teaching her correctly, or if it's her just not getting it. Probably me.


Don't feel bad - it's definitely a challenging trick. I'm having some trouble as well. Just keep working at it and see what happens. Remember we still have the whole of November to go.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

> Wow, I am getting no where with Dallas on the Limp trick. I'm not sure if it's me not teaching her correctly, or if it's her just not getting it. Probably me.


What are you having problems with? Maybe we can lend a paw! Can you take a video of what you're doing so far?

Here's a video of tonight's session... it went pretty well!


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Crawl is extremely easy and fun to teach. I taught one of mine to crawl a long time ago and he does it all the time. He even tried it in the rally ring once and had great fun with it.


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

I just started with Boudi. She has only had one training session and since I haven't taught "Paw" yet, we've started with that. She's starting to understand - most of the time she'll put her paw in my hand at the command without a "tap" from me, but she needs my hand at her level so far for it to work (although she has started following "sit" with a little wave.... oops!). I can live with this outcome from one session.

This is a really fun idea - I can tell it's going to be a lot of fun. Thanks!

I'll keep working with her and let everyone know how its going.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Tater is doing well. We're paw targeting up in front of him instead of to the side. He's got a continuous light paw touch with a couple limp bounces down. When I up the criteria, with my hand in front I plan to gradually bring it forward and away so he has to move to it with his paw up to earn a c/t.

We haven't worked on crawl yet because we worked on playing with this toy instead:










Tater has learned to push the bugs that are up with his paw. Cute, cute, cute!


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## Frenchie (Oct 22, 2008)

I got Hammer to crawl about 4 inches, Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....................... he shakes too.


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

Squeeker said:


> What are you having problems with? Maybe we can lend a paw! Can you take a video of what you're doing so far?


I stand next to her and have her give me her paw. Then I walk a few steps and say "limp" she walks with me holding her paw, and I give her a treat & praise her. But when I ask her to do it by herself, she just looks at me like I'm from Mars or something. LOL I can't take a video because everyone else here thinks I'm crazy to try this trick and won't video me.



Dakota Spirit said:


> Remember we still have the whole of November to go.


Thank goodness for that.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

> I stand next to her and have her give me her paw. Then I walk a few steps and say "limp" she walks with me holding her paw, and I give her a treat & praise her. But when I ask her to do it by herself, she just looks at me like I'm from Mars or something. LOL I can't take a video because everyone else here thinks I'm crazy to try this trick and won't video me.


Hey, that's not bad at all! You're not far from us at all!

When you say she won't do it when you ask her to do it by herself, what do you mean? Are you still keeping your hand next to her paw at her side, just not holding it? Or are you trying to just stand there and say "limp" and she doesn't get it?

If it's the former, just keep trying. It took Libby a little bit to do it herself, as well. Try helping her out, reward, and then maybe try touching just your palm to her foot, but don't hold on with your fingers, and if she gets it, SHOWER her with food! That's pretty much what I did.

If it's the latter, your dog is probably not ready to be doing it by itself yet. You will probably need to have her target her paw for quite a while, so don't get too discouraged by that!


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

You guys are doing great! I can get Barclay to crawl a few inches following his target stick, but that's it so far - though I'm really happy with that! 

However I'm getting nowhere on the shake. I guess we spent too much time doing 'doggie zen', he knows not to paw at hands, and when I lift his paw physically, click and treat, I can do that a bunch of times in a row, but he just won't lift his paw himself.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Steph - You're lumping.  Break up the behavior into tiny stages (called "splitting"). Try working in a quiet area, get comfortabe and place your hand on the ground, palm up, in a place Barclay is likely to touch it accidentally and c/t when he does. It might take quite a few repetitions for him to get that "paw touching hand = c/t," but he'll catch on soon enough if you keep at it, then you can start upping the criteria for more paw, and eventually raising it up in stages. This will essentially be a version of the 100 Things To Do With A Box game as you are going to shape a paw touch. It's not as "easy" as it would seem to manipulate his paw, but as you're seeing, manipulation isn't conductive to the dog actually thinking about what should happen before a behavior to get the c/t as must happen when shaping.


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

Oh, thank you so much! I tried that and within ten minutes I had him solidly putting his paw in my hand  Eureka!


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## Chels_girl (Aug 2, 2008)

I'm having a smidge of trouble, I got Sydney to hold up her own foot on cue, by raising my arm as if it was in a sling but I can't figure out how to get her to take a step yet, any tips? I got her to hold up her leg by teaching her stand, and then I'd hold out my arm and she'd lay her paw on it, after a while I moved my hand farther and farther away so now she'll hold it up herself.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

Hey Chels_girl,

Have you checked out the video posted at the beginning of this thread? That might help... 

At first I had to hold Libby's paw and sort of shuffle my feet forward in order to get my dog to take her first "limp". I did this for a session or two, and now that she has the idea, she is starting to offer it without me having to support her leg. Maybe give that a try?


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Squeeker said:


> PROGRESS UPDATE!
> 
> I backed up a few steps and Libby is now holding her paw up on her own, and limping a hop or two foreward... this time WITHOUT bonking me in the face with her nose! WOOO!
> 
> No progress with crawl, though... it's not her favourite trick, that's for sure. Working on it, though!


That's great...i saw your video. I laughed at her bonkin' ya in the face each time..sorry it was funny. Especially since you had prepped me in seeing it. Congrats on the progress.

Hey, is this the first trick of the month?


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Mac'N'Roe said:


> Hey, is this the first trick of the month?


Yep  We just started a bit early since October still has a week or so to go.


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

woot woot! Storm is now limping and crawling consistently!!  

My criteria for limp is still only a few steps but he's got it. It is so cool to see the light switch turn on when teaching a trick. I thought getting him to take the steps forward was going to take a while. But Friday night I was at work training tricks with one of the trainers and she asked if I tried putting my hand under his paw to help him out. I told her no because I was trying to do it without doing that. She recommended putting my hand under his paw but not actually touching it, just in case he needs some support as he takes the step. Well it worked! Before this I had just been clicking him for any forward motion but he would always take the step forward and end up putting his paw down. 

I'm going to see if I can get someone to record it so I can post a video of him doing it. 

Dan


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

> That's great...i saw your video. I laughed at her bonkin' ya in the face each time..sorry it was funny. Especially since you had prepped me in seeing it. Congrats on the progress.
> 
> Hey, is this the first trick of the month?


 Hahaha, thanks! 

Yes, it's the first trick of the month. It's the November trick, but we started a bit early. 

Perfect storm, that's awesome! It IS fantastic to see the dogs go "aha", eh?

Would love to see a video!


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

More progress!

Libby is now holding her paw up without pawing at, or really making contact with my hand at all! She limps without much input from me, either! She's starting to understand that when I say "limp", it means "hop foreward on 3 legs". I'm able to get 2-3 "limps" at a time. 



I'm going to continue to work at this point for a few more sessions, and then start to ask for more "limps" in succession, and if that goes well, I am going to start to fade the target hand.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

Everyone is doing so good!

I've been busy with a few things lately and when I do training I tend to focus more on obedience and a little something I've been teaching Coal (service dog work). However, when I did work on the Nov tricks it was just a bit discouraging.

I'm not usually a treat and clicker trainer, which is what I used for teaching Coal Limp. At first it went really well and I was happy with his first lesson, however the second one he was just TOO excited about the treats and ended up missing the point and just pawed at my hand and arm until I had big scratches on me!!

I think I'm going to try it either without the treats or with a lower reward type of treat (like, his kibble... although if he views it as a treat it generaly doesn't matter WHAT it was).

Linkin I haven't started with the crawl yet.

I will try to work on it more though and post a video when I feel there's enough progress to share


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

Squeeker said:


> More progress!
> 
> Libby is now holding her paw up without pawing at, or really making contact with my hand at all! She limps without much input from me, either! She's starting to understand that when I say "limp", it means "hop foreward on 3 legs". I'm able to get 2-3 "limps" at a time.
> 
> I'm going to continue to work at this point for a few more sessions, and then start to ask for more "limps" in succession, and if that goes well, I am going to start to fade the target hand.


Awesome! I think I'm letting Dallas depend too much on my hand. But she doesn't seem ready to do it any other way yet. I am so determined for her to get this by the end of the month! How often are you working with her on this?


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

> 'm not usually a treat and clicker trainer, which is what I used for teaching Coal Limp. At first it went really well and I was happy with his first lesson, however the second one he was just TOO excited about the treats and ended up missing the point and just pawed at my hand and arm until I had big scratches on me!!
> I think I'm going to try it either without the treats or with a lower reward type of treat (like, his kibble... although if he views it as a treat it generally doesn't matter WHAT it was).


How do you usually train? If you're not usually clicker training, does your dog understand how the clicker works? Maybe try doing it how you usually would instead?

If he's pawing at your hand, perhaps that means he's just not ready for you to up the criteria yet. Start clicking ONLY for the paw raise, with no time criteria yet, and slowly build the pause in later?

At home I just use Libby's kibble. Actually, in all of my videos, I'm training her with her dinner 



> Awesome! I think I'm letting Dallas depend too much on my hand. But she doesn't seem ready to do it any other way yet. I am so determined for her to get this by the end of the month! How often are you working with her on this?


We work every other day, one session per day, maybe 5 minutes (but certainly not more) on limp.

As for the hand dependency... just keep working on it! Raise the criteria by just a tiny bit each time.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

Squeeker said:


> How do you usually train? If you're not usually clicker training, does your dog understand how the clicker works? Maybe try doing it how you usually would instead?
> 
> If he's pawing at your hand, perhaps that means he's just not ready for you to up the criteria yet. Start clicking ONLY for the paw raise, with no time criteria yet, and slowly build the pause in later?
> 
> At home I just use Libby's kibble. Actually, in all of my videos, I'm training her with her dinner


Oh sorry, I should have explained that a little better  COAL was clicker trained at his first obedience class when he was about 8 months old (or around there, I don't remember exactly). I used it for a while and then stopped because I'm pretty uncoordinated as it is and it's just one more thing I don't need in my hands while I'm training lol

It wasn't until last year that I stopped training mostly with treats, because my newer dog was trained without them and he responds much better than Coal (this isn't a debate on training methods so I won't go much further on that ).

So yes, Coal is clicker trained and knows what it means.

I tried clicking the second his paw was off the floor, but he just gets so darn excited about the treats that he over does everything in training when they're being used. I usually use the treats and the clicker for really difficult tricks or behaviors though, to try and get that extra reward and get the exact behavior I'm wanting out of him. It can just get frustrating when he goes bonkers for the treats!

Did I mention he's part Lab? Food runs his world


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

Ah, ok, I understand what you mean now.

I've honestly never trained a dog that lost its mind at the sight of food. My dog is more of the type to try everything she can to get the food... if I just stand there with food I might get eye contact, sit, down, stand, heel, or a twirl just to see what will work! 

I guess trying lower value treats, or a toy, like you said. I don't know how you train, but maybe trying to be really calm, slow, and deliberate, and using a more monotone voice while training might help calm him down, too.


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

Very nice Squeeker!! 

I had a friend record Storm doing his limp and crawl last night but she has to download if off her camera and stuff. But I should have a vid to post soon


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

Awesome! Waiting with bated breath!


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

Here it is 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2A37JpC4Rk

How do I make it show up in the post like yours?

I haven't added a verbal cue to this yet
but I will soon.. I haven't added verbals to hardly any of his tricks actually.. I have only 
been doing verbals with his basic behaviors. To be honest I'm really not even sure why I
haven't put verbals on his tricks? lol 

So how is Libby doing?


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

Hahaha, that's awesome! How old is you dog? Looks like a young-un! Border?

Very good!!! I hope to get Libby to that point soon! 

What about the crawl?

I am not sure how one would put a youtube video right into the message... I upload mine to Photobucket, so it's a little different. I've never used youtube for uploading, so I can't be of much help.


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

Storm is now 14 weeks and is an Australian Shepherd. His crawl is on a different video but he wasn't doing good crawls that night for some reason. His butt was much higher then I wanted.. I didn't realize how high his butt was until I watched the video lol.

Here is the other video,






I am starting to do a lot of training with the friend that recorded these videos so I will be recording a lot more of his training sessions.

Just for fun, here is Storms friend crawling also.






Dan


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

Wow that is awesome, he certainly puts me and Dallas to shame. Congrats on all the trick training. Can you share some of your techniques?


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

musicmom116 said:


> Wow that is awesome, he certainly puts me and Dallas to shame. Congrats on all the trick training. Can you share some of your techniques?


Thanks 

I use clicker training for everything. For limp I fallowed Kikopups video but the only thing I didn't do was have him rest his paw on my hand much. The first session I let him hit my hand and I clicked when his hand came up. After that I put my hand a little higher and clicked before he actually touched my hand. Then I gradually upped my criteria and clicked for him holding his paw up for longer and longer. 

Once I had him holding his paw up for a good amount of time I started to move forward a tiny bit and I would click for the smallest amount of forward motion (head moving a 1/4" forward or whatever) while still holding his paw up. Then I again gradually upped my criteria and clicked for more and more forward motion.

I got stuck at this point for a little while. He would hop forward but when his other paw hit the ground so did the paw he was suppose to keep up. 

Then my friend (agility trainer at my work) recommended that I try doing what Kikopup does and allow him to rest his paw on my hand. However, for whatever reason I just didn't want to have him rest his paw on my hand? So she recommended that I just put my hand under his paw but not supporting it just in case he did need the support as he stepped forward. 

I gave it a try and it worked. He took the step forward and instead of his paw coming down he kept it up. His paw hardly touched my hand.. After this he understood what I wanted and I just gradually worked towards more and more steps forward. 

Dan


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

AWESOME videos! You and your friend have some amazing aussies!


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

The Perfect Storm said:


> How do I make it show up in the post like yours?


Edit:
Correction, it's not there in Advanced. Just click on Quote for anyones responses and you will get the YouTube option. If you don't want to quote the person, you can just delete the quote and just post your message.


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## The Perfect Storm (Oct 12, 2008)

So how is everyone else doing on this?


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## StarfishSaving (Nov 7, 2008)

Toby is crawling but only with a lure at the moment. I don't have to put my hand on his back or anything to keep him from popping up. We only just started, though, so I'm sure we'll get there. I'm also working with Buddy starting today and he seemed to get the idea but he gets so worked up over food he started offering up roll over every time he laid down... *head-desk* Even tried crawling upside down and on his side halfway through rolling.


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Not so good, lol........

Nell is only Crawling with a lure as well. And I've been trying to start limp, but she keeps sitting down. Her sit is so strong, lol. Whenever she is next to me, she's at a sit. I've been trying so long to teach Stand as well, but she hasn't got it yet.

As for eye contact though, she's doing excellent. She can stare a hole right through my head, lol. And when I reach for a treat, she doesn't follow my hand going back to me. Instead, her eyes go straight to mine, lol. Pretty cool. And when I was trying to get her to lift a paw, she kept staring a hole in my head, lol, expecting a click and treat to come soon, lol.


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## secondchance (Sep 9, 2008)

I am also having the same problem as DogGoneGood, it's the same problem I always have when training tricks. Polly gets so obsessed with the food that she isn't aware of what she is doing or what is around her. I had this problem a bit during agility to, sometimes she would just be looking at me and plow right through whatever she was doing. My arm is all scratched up from her pawing at me, she gets so wound up and frantic. I also use "clicker" training (I mark with a YES because i am not coordinated to hold the clicker on top of everything else). I am trying to just break it down and take smaller steps and do shorter sessions. Not sure how else to overcome this, i also started using lower value rewards, but it did not help.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

So how's everyone doing? There are 10 days left for this month's tricks!

I'm going to save my final video for the end... keep you all in suspense!


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Wally just isn't getting these 

I'll keep trying, but he's not making the connection yet. He'll get up and walk to where the stick is for crawl and he's not grasping "shake" at all. 

I'm surprised with shake. He usually gets it if I move his body/show him how to do something a few times.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

If he is standing up for crawl, try gently resting your hand on his back, or just hovering it over, so he knows no standing up, if you clicker train, click for any small movement forward. If you don't clicker train, just praise and treat for any small movement forward.
Then try for more movement forward until they are crawling.

For shake, try putting a piece of cheese or something in your hand, when he paws at your hand, say shake....OR...I just used a physical method, picked up my dogs paw, and said shake, she got it after 2 tries.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Pepper said:


> If he is standing up for crawl, try gently resting your hand on his back, or just hovering it over, so he knows no standing up, if you clicker train, click for any small movement forward. If you don't clicker train, just praise and treat for any small movement forward.
> Then try for more movement forward until they are crawling.
> 
> For shake, try putting a piece of cheese or something in your hand, when he paws at your hand, say shake....OR...I just used a physical method, picked up my dogs paw, and said shake, she got it after 2 tries.



Thanks Pepper. I do clicker train, so I'll have to try again and watch for any movements (I probably was guilty of lumping).

The physical method usually works for Wally, which is why I'm at a bit of a loss about his struggle trying to get it. I'll keep at it - maybe he'll have a breakthrough or something.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

Maybe your delaying on the click for shake, try to time it exactly when he puts his paw on your hand, or even hits your hand, when I did the physical method, I said shake...then I used my left hand to place her paw in my right hand and said shake, good girl, *treat*

Hope this helps


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

Barclay's got shake down now, and he will crawl to follow the target stick, but we haven't gotten any further than that. We keep finding other things to work on  I don't want to confuse him with too many new things at once. This has definilty motivated me to work with him every day though, so it's all good.


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## musicmom116 (Jul 8, 2008)

Squeeker said:


> So how's everyone doing? There are 10 days left for this month's tricks!
> I'm going to save my final video for the end... keep you all in suspense!



I think Dallas and I are going to fail the Nov. Trick of the Month (Limp) She just isn't getting it. Whn I asek her to do somethig else she'll sit and lift her paw, then I try working on Limp with her, but to no avail. I'm kind of disappointed because I really thought she would learn it. Anyways, I have a few more days to work with her. Maybe I'll have better luck in Dec.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Bumped up!


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## ShadowSky (Aug 6, 2008)

I think I've failed to completely train the tricks this month ^^; 

Buck will crawl if you tap the floor and tell him to a little ways away, but won't do it on command alone yet. For Limp, he'll hold his paw up as long as I ask, but we haven't gotten more than the occasional one step forward yet.

Jake will crawl with me if I army crawl along the floor and ask him to crawl(I started doing this for fun lol...), and he'll crawl if I point to a spot and tell him to crawl to it with my hand about a foot and a half off the floor while he's already laying down. Limp... I didn't get around to training that one with him.

Did anyone completely train limp? Is there any way to further encourage that step forward along with the lure?


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## Simon (Jul 23, 2008)

I enjoyed watching very much. I am still working on Obedience training. Just finish teaching Simon to back up.Not hard when one uses a wall on the left side of the dog. We got two more classes then a break until after the first of the year.Simon got a lot of finish work to do. We will see haw we are this summer. Would like to compete a little this summer?We will if I feel we are ready but only if he ready.I plan on taking Simon to Obedience trials so he can get use to the noise and what going on.One has to enjoy working with his or her dog.I enjoy it very much.


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## Squeeker (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, here's how far along I managed to get with Libby working on Limp and Crawl!

I would have liked to progress further, but I'm happy with the progress we made, and had a LOT of fun with it! I hope others felt the same!

Recently, while training Limp, I had a problem that was difficult to break. For some reason, Libby thought that she needed to lean against my leg while limping. I spent quite a few days re-training to get rid of that behaviour. She is almost ready to perform the trick without my hand present as a target.

Crawl is not Libby's favourite trick. We had already sort of trained it before, but we never got further than using a lure and getting a few inches out of her. Now I am giving her the cue without food in my hand, and after a few repetitions I can get her to crawl with my hand about a foot off the ground, but no higher. She will scoot forward about two feet now, which is a big improvement for her! However, her butt still pops up, but I'm not too worried about it.

Here's my final video!


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

I admit I totally bombed on this one and will also be out of this months trick!  The end of October I came down with acute laryngitis and am still unable to talk. The doctor said a few more weeks of "No Talking"  It's driving me nuts!!!!!
My dogs have been great though. They know something is wrong and have been very clingy with me. Not the insecure clingy but the concerned and protection clingy. They keep coming up to smell my breath too as tho' they can detect the problem in my throat. My sweet babies... 
Hopefully January we can catch up! 

Jihad
and the pound puppy crew.


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