# Raw food Negative aspects



## dZilla (Sep 23, 2009)

I see on this page lots of stickies up top, about raw diets, but nothing stickied about the negative aspects. And I wonder why not..? Are there negative aspects. I mean there are always two sides to every story, and wondering if people are just going on 'testimonials' rather then any scientific or 'proven' data...

I did a google search and came up with one article talking about negative aspects of feeding your dog raw chicken and salmonella 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC339295/

Are there other such articles, or will this topic/post be pushed down to page 5... Anyways i'm curious as I interested in putting our puppy and cat on a raw food diet once we get back from holidays, but it just seems like everyone advocates for it, but never talks about any potential bad things that can happen. (And folks not to be a cynic, but there has to be bad things lol)

Anyways hoping to create a discussion, and possibly get this stickied if any information actually does come up.


----------



## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

I honestly do not feel that any negative aspects even come close to comparing to the benefits my dogs get from raw.

Yes, a dog can possibly get a broken tooth from chewing on a bone that is too hard but you can greatly reduce this risk by not feeding weight bearing bones. 

Also, they say that a dog can get bowel perforations from raw but I have only ever seen my boys pass pieces of bone when they were sick with a tummy bug. Generally the bone comes out digested so well that you can't even tell that it was bone to begin with. Hard to be perforations when it is digested 

As for the salmonella? Like I mentioned above Brom had a stomach bug. He got quite sick with very loose stools right before Christmas. He was eating nothing but raw chicken and some moose for the 2 months prior to getting sick. We had a stool sample taken and it was sent to the bacteria specialist at the vet school in PEI. It came back negative for salmonella. I know that this is only one case but it is pretty encouraging.

I really do love raw feeding. It is the ONLY thing that Iorek can eat without have exploding bum and with a Samoyed not having an exploding bum is a great perk.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

The negative aspect of raw/homecooked is the research. It takes effort to truly balance a raw diet or else you could be facing a lot of health issues.


----------



## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

That is true too. A lot of people jump into raw without researching like they should and that can cause lots of issues with the dog.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> The negative aspect of raw/homecooked is the research. It takes effort to truly balance a raw diet or else you could be facing a lot of health issues.


+1

(messagetoshort)


----------



## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

i dont see any negatives personally....but then again i enjoy doing research as a hobby.

there's lots of negative stuff posted on the web...heck walk into a random vets and ask about raw and see what they say....most of it will be wildly exaggerated...

the REAL negative is that the animal healthcare community has for the most part dismissed raw as a viable diet and as a result there is almost no credible scientific research exploring the pros and cons....


----------



## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

I think the lack of convenience can be seen as a negative, and the fact that you have to be diligent about cleanliness.. whereas with kibble you just scoop and drop, lol.


----------



## dZilla (Sep 23, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> i dont see any negatives personally....but then again i enjoy doing research as a hobby.
> 
> there's lots of negative stuff posted on the web...heck walk into a random vets and ask about raw and see what they say....most of it will be wildly exaggerated...
> 
> ...


----------



## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

dZilla said:


> zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:
> 
> 
> > i dont see any negatives personally....but then again i enjoy doing research as a hobby.
> ...


----------



## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

There are pros and cons of any diet. A dog can bloat or get a blockage on kibble. They can perforate intestines or contract a bacterial infection on raw. And yes, they have recalled kibble due to salmonella contamination as well. If you really want to get serious you can poison yourself with water.


----------



## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

i think one negative aspect to raw is the sensationalistic slant toward raw.

the other day, on another forum, there was a member who posted the FDA bans bones for dogs.

well.....

first. the FDA cannot ban bones
second. what is absurd is the FDA DID issue a ten point warning about feeding dogs bones of ANY KIND.

the negatives to feeding raw are the same as the negatives of me eating cereal....

some can. some can't.

if my dogs do not tolerate raw, does it make the diet bad? should everyone not feed raw?

i personally cannot tolerate bread, pasta, or cereal.....and milk....blech...i love eating them but my body pays me back the next day.....should i start a diatribe about bread, milk, cereal and pasta --- pasta makes me feel like i'm in an opiate stupor....maybe the FDA should ban pasta based on my anecdotal experience.

There are plenty of vets who are 'getting' with the program....I have one. He is very honest with me. He says that, personally, he gets a discount on what is sold at the clinic....that he knows i won't give my dogs fortiflora, but that i should research and find a probiotic that suits me with the ingredients i can live with....that if my dogs do well on home cooked or raw, then i have his blessing...not that i needed it.

but at least i don't have to go into the vet's office all defensive or worse, lie...

there are negatives, i think, to every diet, from overfeeding to feeding out of ignorance...

i would bet there are more incidents involving the fur from toys, the squeakers from toys, debris, stuff dogs eat that make us shake our heads...

there is research out there. unfortunately, much of it is found in the form of yahoo groups....read some of them and an education you will get about raw...

when you've got thousands...and i mean thousands feeding either prey model or barf....that in and of itself is a scientific study.

and believe me there are cons. first time around, i fed my dogs too much skin and fat and they had cannon butt....well, that was a con.

now i trim the excess and now raw feeding is a pro.

we live. we learn.

i just wish people weren't so close minded about it, turning their noses up at it as disgusting and wrong before learning about it.....

raw is not for every dog or every person.

sometimes we have to feed with our conscience and our purse.

to me, the biggest con is the negativity surrounding raw, like i'm killing my dogs.

raw isn't the fad. dog food is. raw has been around longer.

the con is ignorance...mine included until i started reading....


----------



## pandora (Mar 19, 2010)

I cant feed 100% raw to my dogs I dont have enough storage to buy in an amount that would make it affordable and there is no suppiler in my area so I would have to pay transport making it an overly expensive buisness..

So I try to go half way, my dogs get a good quality kibble dry in the am and as an evening meal they get chicken , lamb and once a week fish plus eggs now and then.
They also have only dried natural treats pigs or lambs ears..dried chicken breast and some other stuff but I cant translate its like dry strips of beef..

I have two 9 year olds and most people refuse to beleive they are that old.. My vet called another owner in to look at my dogs teeth last time I was there. He explained to the owner that this was how healthy dogs teeth/gums should look.

I am careful with bones, careful with cleanliness and I have happy healthy dogs.


----------



## DJsMom (Jun 6, 2008)

Reading thru the article you linked to, the only real negative aspect it points out, that's clear to me anyway, is the salmonella that's shed in the dogs feces that people then scoop up to dispose of. 
And while it does point out that 80% (I believe) of the dogs that were fed raw were shedding S, nothing was mentioned about any of the dogs becoming ill. I take it that means the dogs were not effected by the S?
Really, I do think the biggest danger, if 1 can call it that, in feeding a raw diet is to people - they DO have to use some caution when EVER handling raw, whether it be for feeding their dogs or feeding themselves.


----------



## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

DJsMom said:


> And while it does point out that 80% (I believe) of the dogs that were fed raw were shedding S, nothing was mentioned about any of the dogs becoming ill. I take it that means the dogs were not effected by the S?


Many dogs carry Salmonella in their gut all the time and don't get sick. It's something that's often present in carnivore guts. Their digestive system is not the same as ours. 

There are always exceptions, of course, and a dog with problems handling Salmonella should probably not be fed raw, obviously. I hear some sighthound breeds are more prone to digestive problems in that regard, for instance.

It boils down to what has been said many times in this forum: Not every food/diet works for every dog. Find what gets good results for YOUR individual dog, whatever it is, and stick with it.


----------



## DJsMom (Jun 6, 2008)

Pai said:


> Many dogs carry Salmonella in their gut all the time and don't get sick. It's something that's often present in carnivore guts. Their digestive system is not the same as ours.


And I do agree totally with that. 
What I'm saying is that the only neg aspect that I can see in the article that was linked to is the danger the shedding salmonella poses to the people picking up the dogs poop. I'm not seeing any neg aspects to the dogs themselves - in that particular test the article focused on.
I've fed my dogs raw for over a year & have had NO neg effects on the dogs - only positive


----------



## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

DJsMom said:


> And I do agree totally with that.
> What I'm saying is that the only neg aspect that I can see in the article that was linked to is the danger the shedding salmonella poses to the people picking up the dogs poop. I'm not seeing any neg aspects to the dogs themselves - in that particular test the article focused on.
> I've fed my dogs raw for over a year & have had NO neg effects on the dogs - only positive


I agree with you. Poop _in general_ is unsanitary and has bacteria in it that can make people sick if not handled properly. That's why there are scoop laws. 

Heck, there are 'risks' of getting Salmonella simply if you handle and cook raw meat for your OWN dinner -- but applying basic sanitary common sense makes it safer. If it was so 'dangerous' supermarkets wouldn't be able to sell the stuff. But they assume folks can handle it properly (and most do).

The same 'sanitary logic' applies to dog poop. Washing one's hands goes a long way!


----------



## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

The only negative aspect I've seen besides getting the right balance(which is really only hard at first) is that the poops may be too small. Too small to express the anal glands properly. But I have only seen that in a few cases, I believe someone here on DF had that issue once.

Other than that I love raw!! You wouldn't want to eat cereal for your entire life would you?


----------



## Leona (Apr 24, 2010)

I have put my dog on raw diet for a couple of months and I very pleased with the results. My dog was slightly overweight before and often sick. Having changed his diet has helped a lot. So, as far as I'm concerned two tumbs up for raw. 
Of course, I'm very cautious about the meat I buy. I buy it from trusted vendors, it's absolutely fresh, and 1. class meat. This is a little bit more expensive but it's worth every penny.
I don't understand the fuss around raw meat if this is the way animals eat in their natural environment.


----------



## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

I can not say enough good things about raw food. I started researching it when we had our yorkie and he had food allergies, the vet wanted to put him on a really expensive allergy food. We switched him to raw with grains and our other dog was switched the day we brought her home. Our yorkies allergies were almost gone when he went on a grain free raw diet (unfortunalty he passed shortly after...nothing to do with diet or health) our other dog gave my husband asthma for the first week we had her, after a week of raw that went away...and I 100% believe it is the kibble that comes out in the dogs dander that causes him problems because we put our dog back on kibble when we first got Bella...and his allergies came back. Now we are away for the weekend staying with my daughter and because we had to travel and stay somewhere else we thought kibble would be the best way to go...I bought some from the petstore (not the reg brand we buy because this one came in a sample size and was cheaper than buying a bigger bag that would probably go bad, but its made by the same company) and OMG Bella pooped this morning by the back door, I had just taken her out in the morn and she pooped and then pooped again about a half an hour later...it was so gross and stinky  My husband says there is no way we will ever feed kibble as the main diet. I like raw poop...less than half the size and barely any stink, plus it just crumbles away  and both my dogs get over the recommended amount and neither are overweight....lots goes in and little comes out...kibble little goes in and lots comes out


----------



## phoebespeople (May 27, 2009)

The only negative aspect of RAW dog food is the decreased profit for commercial kibble manufacturers.

RAW food is safe. If you can make thanksgiving turkey or chicken wings for your family, and clean up your kitchen afterwards, you can feed your dog RAW food and not give your family salmonella poisoning. As for "shedding" salmonella in dog feces, there are a lot of nasty things in any animals feces. Don't touch feces and then put your hands on or near your face. Why would anyone do that? That's a ridiculous argument.

RAW food is inexpensive, convenient, and easy. Everything I buy is under $1.49/lb. It's easy to find cheap turkey necks, stewing chickens, beef heart, pork shoulder, liver, kidneys, duck, lamb, bison, deer, rabbit, sardines, green tripe, trimmings from the butcher, etc... It's kind of a hobby finding deals on random animal parts. I chop everything up into chunks, seal them in meal sized freezer bags, and take another one out of the freezer at each meal. 

RAW dog food is great for the health of your dog. Phoebes teeth are like pearls, her coat is soft as silk, she has unlimited energy, she heals quickly, she doesn't smell like a wet dog, even when she's wet. Her poops are small, she drinks less water (no salt), she sheds less and more consistently, we are going to save a fortune on vet bills. 

80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ(half of that liver). 
If it was once part of an animal, it's RAW dog food. 
No cooking, no salt, no grain. 
Weight bearing bones are for recreation gnawing on/teeth cleaning, non-weight bearing bones are for eating. 
These are the basic rules of RAW, they are not difficult to understand, it really is easy and common sense stuff. Phoebe is living proof that anyone can do this. I can do this, and so can you!
If anyone is hesitant about feeding RAW, you can do it! I believe in you!


----------



## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

yes I forgot about the water thing...this weekend both dogs have had access to water in the house and have drank quite a bit, but they also have been drinking out of puddles and any other water they find outsids...they dont drink nearly as much water on raw food


----------



## Francesca (Apr 26, 2010)

If you know what you are doing, there are no negatives!!!


----------



## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

the only negative i see these days, is, even with doing everything right, both of my dogs are having a hard transition....

we do believe eventually they will be fine, but it's just going to take longer...

i'm sure there are those who would see some of the stools and go screaming to the store for kibble....they won't wait it out and go more slowly than most...


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Oh and also if you have a Summer who doesn't eat raw there can be some problems. I wish my dog wasn't so picky. It's a work in progress.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I found it was a little messy for dogs with long droopy feathered ears or dogs with a lot of long hair. Our Cavalier shook the raw meat every which way when we were on raw and splattered meat juices all over herself. Especially her ears got into the raw food a LOT which was too unsanitary for my aunt's 2 children because they kiss her and snuggle with her. 

It's a bit of a hassle to prepare and research and find space to store.

For our 2 family dogs, a Chihuahua and a Cavalier, it was too much mess and unsanitary for younger kids.

For my dog, she wasn't doing any better on raw than she was on premium kibble. Energy, coat, everything was pretty much the same as a good quality grain free kibble so that's what we're using. Also she won't eat when I place a meal down so I can't just leave raw meat sitting around collecting bacteria. That's the main reason she's on kibble.


----------



## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I found it was a little messy for dogs with long droopy feathered ears or dogs with a lot of long hair. Our Cavalier shook the raw meat every which way when we were on raw and splattered meat juices all over herself. Especially her ears got into the raw food a LOT which was too unsanitary for my aunt's 2 children because they kiss her and snuggle with her.
> 
> It's a bit of a hassle to prepare and research and find space to store.
> 
> ...


can't deny the mess.....although i have friends with floppy eared dogs who use rubber bands and scrunchies for feeding time to get those big ol' ears out of the way...and we are finally seeing some results in teaching the dogs to eat on the 'special' towels.....

so, yes, mess is a down side....but i believe in time the dogs will accustom themselves to 'towel', like a pavlovian response...


----------



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

MagicRe said:


> can't deny the mess.....although i have friends with floppy eared dogs who use rubber bands and scrunchies for feeding time to get those big ol' ears out of the way...and we are finally seeing some results in teaching the dogs to eat on the 'special' towels.....
> 
> so, yes, mess is a down side....but i believe in time the dogs will accustom themselves to 'towel', like a pavlovian response...


Truffles our Cavalier does stay around her bowl area but with every piece of meat, before she eats it, she shakes it like crazy, left and right. Everything splatters everywhere on her body and all over the room. We have no idea why she does that but it's unbelievably gross to see bits of chicken fat and stuff splattered on our walls. 

Scrunchies are a very good idea though. Currently Orijen kibble is working great for them so that's what we're going to keep them on for now.


----------



## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Truffles our Cavalier does stay around her bowl area but with every piece of meat, before she eats it, she shakes it like crazy, left and right. Everything splatters everywhere on her body and all over the room. We have no idea why she does that but it's unbelievably gross to see bits of chicken fat and stuff splattered on our walls.
> 
> Scrunchies are a very good idea though. Currently Orijen kibble is working great for them so that's what we're going to keep them on for now.


i cannot believe you have a cav named truffles...i used to have a cav named truffles....wow.

my pug does that...he becomes one with the food and does this ritual dance with it, flinging it this way and that....hasn't quite learned the art of mashing....but he's a pug and he is starting to slow down....

i am a real believer that people should feed their conscience, their life style, their comfort level and their purse.....i've fed my dogs all kinds of ways from kibbles 'n bits to raw.....i've had dogs who lived a long time on the worst food and i've had dogs who lived a very short life on better food....jury is still out on raw....


----------



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

MagicRe said:


> i cannot believe you have a cav named truffles...i used to have a cav named truffles....wow.


Wow that's pretty amazing. Was yours a Tricolor? Truffles and Popcorn our long haired Chi are named by my 2 little cousins lol. Trufffles because she's as sweet as truffles chocolate and Popcorn because as a baby he had crazy wild hair that looked like a popcorn that popped.


----------



## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

http://thecaninedirectory.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/cavalier-king-charles-spaniel.jpg

mine looked much like this one....i miss her...she died years ago from liver cancer...she was eleven....and in those days, we fed kibbles 'n bits..

she was the best girl, although don't tell malia, because she thinks SHE'S the best girl LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Here's our girl.










Sorry about your loss. 11 years old is a good age for a Cavalier though. I'm sure she had an awesome life! I know a lot of Cavaliers and many of them don't live past 7-9 because of the genetic diseases, heart problems, etc. etc. they have. They can be eating the best food in the world and still succumb to their diseases. It's really sad actually because they are such sweet and loving dogs. The breed is just so unbelievably unhealthy now.


----------



## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

not to hijack the thread, but awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....

we elected to no longer have cocker spaniels because of the breeding issues....but you're right. she had a great life and did live to eleven, so there is that. how 'bout that?
eleven on kibbles 'n bits LOL


----------



## STPFAN (Sep 27, 2009)

phoebespeople said:


> The only negative aspect of RAW dog food is the decreased profit for commercial kibble manufacturers.
> 
> RAW food is safe. If you can make thanksgiving turkey or chicken wings for your family, and clean up your kitchen afterwards, you can feed your dog RAW food and not give your family salmonella poisoning. As for "shedding" salmonella in dog feces, there are a lot of nasty things in any animals feces. Don't touch feces and then put your hands on or near your face. Why would anyone do that? That's a ridiculous argument.
> 
> ...


Very good points!


----------



## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

The only issue I've found here is cost. To go with the premade patties, it would cost me more to feed the dogs than the humans in the household. Finding sources of raw bones has gotten tougher, because the demand has gone up. Ten years ago I could go into a butcher shop, ask for turkey frames and get them for $0.30 a lb, now they have signs up that they are $1.50 a lb because they can sell them for that. 

With my guys, I got tired of my younger two being too thin, even with massive amounts of food going into them. So my border collie is now getting kibble on top of the raw and doing well, and I cook grains for my golden to help her keep the weight on (otherwise they'd both be eating 3-4 pounds a day and still too skinny). Our cat was addicted to kibble when we adopted her, and will eat any raw but drives us nuts begging for carbs, so she gets two kibble meals a day and seems more relaxed.

Lana


----------



## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

dZilla said:


> I see on this page lots of stickies up top, about raw diets, but nothing stickied about the negative aspects. And I wonder why not..? Are there negative aspects. I mean there are always two sides to every story, and wondering if people are just going on 'testimonials' rather then any scientific or 'proven' data...
> 
> I did a google search and came up with one article talking about negative aspects of feeding your dog raw chicken and salmonella
> /
> ...



You won't really find any good, scholarly type information. I've searched through every internet database we have at school for it. Each database searches thousands and thousands of scientific journals - still, nothing (for the most part)

The raw diet can be just fine if you approach it carefully. If you just go throwing a chicken breast in the bowl a couple times a day you're in for a rude awakening (sounds bad, but, I see clients do it all the time because they think that's all they need). 

The negative aspects of it are mostly related to public health risks. As your article and several others like it that I have found, dogs eating a raw diet will be shedding salmonella. This isn't much of an issue unless you or your dog are very old, very young, immunocompromised, or pregnant. 

On rare occasions, we have had dogs come through the small animal ER with impaction or even perforations in their intestinal tracts because of raw bones. These don't seem to occur too often, but, to say they don't happen is wrong.


----------



## TankGrrl66 (Mar 29, 2010)

Far and away, the only negative that really comes to mind is cost. Some people might give you a bunch of lip because they do not know any better, but they do not matter anyway. 

The benefits are really awesome. You will notice it and be happy. Your dogs wil lbe VERY happy! In fact, my younger GSD was so happy when he was feed raw for the first time, he PLAYED with the meat! He was rolling around and play bowing with a piece of chicken! I started hitting myself for not only doing this sooner, but for not having a video camera...

If your dog or dogs have any substantial size to them...the cost is going to be prohobitive unless you have connections (ie: a butcher who sells you extra, hunter friends, farmer friends, etc). I live in a city, so there are no connections for me. Everyone has jumped on the bandwagon already and hiked up prices, or the cheap meat is enhanced, or they just have no idea why I would want extras. I'm so sick of butchers looking at me like I've gone mad. I even tell them it is for dogs!

My 2 boys would need about 2lbs of meat a day EACH. Think for a moment how expensive that would be...expecially considering the diet needs some variety to it as well. I can't just keep on giving them parts of fryer chickens. Even those push it, and they have too much bone in them for all the time feeding. 

This makes me sad 
I try to give them RAW as much as I can...but the daily grind is the highest quality kibble I can afford (TOTW). I have already done calculations, and even TOTW saves me more than 20 bucks a month (I get my 30lb bags from a pet supply for 35$, this lasts me about a month)

so, if you can afford it...you really have no excuse not to do it! It really is the best thing for your dog(s). 

PS: If anyone can help me with the cost thing, has suggestions etc...PM me please.


----------



## bengerman13 (May 2, 2010)

TankGrrl66 said:


> PS: If anyone can help me with the cost thing, has suggestions etc...PM me please.


as far as cost (since this is supposed to be an open discussion)
the one day of research i've done has pointed to looking at co-ops, and in a bigger city, you might have a good chance at finding one.


----------



## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

How do I know which bones are weight bearing and which are not? I know the question sounds silly but I wanted to feed pork/beef ribs for most of the bone meals. Are those considered weight bearing or no?

Also I don't really see any negatives in raw. Throwing some raw in a bowl is a lot easier than throwing it in a pan, seasoning it, and cooking it for x amount of minutes. So if you cook for yourself/family, feeding a dog raw is cake.


----------



## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

weight bearing is any bone bearing a majority percent of the weight. 

That would mean legs and hips, mostly.


----------

