# Competitiveness



## Locke (Nov 3, 2008)

I'm not a very competitive person, but I LOVE sports, and have always wanted to get into a dog sport. The only thing is, I feel like dog sports are very competitive, and I worry I will not fit into that environment. I do not want to compete or anything of the sort.

My dog sport of choice is disc dog, next would be flyball, and after that would be agility.
Is it possible to participate in any of those without feeling pressured to compete?


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

I don't know about disc dog...flyball it depends on what type of team you are on. Agility -- depends on your club/training location, but there are a lot of people who do it just as a team building exercise (still important to do it correctly for the safety of the dog) or who compete very casually...it's a pretty inclusive sport for the most part.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Since your on a team in flyball i think it would be hard not to be competitive since your teammates would be expecting the best of you.
In Agility it's just you and your dog and you can do as you like within the rules and have fun, tho it can get expensive to enter trials for the heck of it.
I have little knowledge of Frisbee


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

You don't have to be competitive at all to do agility. Even as a not-so-competitive person, you may find that you like trials, because it's really all about you and your dog, very rarely do you run in to someone who's so super competitive that they're out to "beat" other teams. It's all about running clean


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

It's always possible to participate without competing. You just say "no" when it's time to head to the trial (or preferably before). 

I'm thinking that might be toughest in flyball, because your teammates are depending on you. But then again, dogs are fairly easily replaced on a team, because let's face it, they all do the same thing.

With agility, you could just take classes and not trial. There are plenty of people who do it just to have fun and they might never compete. 

With disc, it's really easy to just take a few discs to the park and play there. Be warned, though - you're going to attract an audience and they're probably going to clap. If you join a disc dog club to get better and learn new moves, then most events usually involve a competition of some sort. But here's the thing about disc dog competitions: people are really laid back and low key about it. Many competitions are just local folks looking to show off the awesome bond they've built with their dog. There's never any booing or judgment because even the best teams have off days sometimes. I find that they're pretty welcoming to newcomers, particularly if you and/or your dog can demonstrate a little talent. People are really open about sharing their tricks and experiences, and words of congratulations are all that you'll hear. I enjoy attending competitions because I meet tons of people who give me useful feedback and encouragement. Additionally, travel to these competitions provides great opportunities to build friendships with other dog lovers. Disc dog folks are a pretty motley crew (WAY more varied than agility, for instance), and they provide a nice contrast from my work/school friends who are pretty much all like me in terms of age, gender, race, and career interests. But I digress...

Whatever you do, don't rule out competition altogether. I think there's a lot to be said for testing a dog in a trial-type environment, and I think when you acquire your sports dog and begin to train, you might change your mind about competing. When I got Kit, I was thinking I wanted a dog with enough drive to chase a ball or a disc at the park (think I got more than I bargained for?). Competition wasn't really my goal. I had no idea that there was an international organization for disc dogging, I had only a vague idea of what agility entailed, and had never heard of flyball. Things change.


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## Locke (Nov 3, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. The disc dog environment sounds a lot like the ultimate frisbee environment. I love the diversity, the positivity and laid back nature of disc sports, so I'm glad to hear its the same with the dogs. Unfortunately, My current dogs are not interested in discs, and it will be a while before I add a new dog to the family. Maybe I'll start with agility and then get into disc with my next dog. 
I figured flyball, as a team sport, wouldn't really work, but I enjoy tram sports, so maybe competing wouldn't be so scary.


If only I could get a puppy, I'm sure these pups would grow to love the disc! They are SOO cute!! I know I would have to wait for them to be fully grown before doing jumping and things, but I'd be willing to wait...I want one!!!

Spot









Teddy


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Locke said:


> I'm not a very competitive person, but I LOVE sports, and have always wanted to get into a dog sport. The only thing is, I feel like dog sports are very competitive, and I worry I will not fit into that environment. I do not want to compete or anything of the sort.
> 
> My dog sport of choice is disc dog, next would be flyball, and after that would be agility.
> Is it possible to participate in any of those without feeling pressured to compete?


I am NOT a competitive person by nature, either. I take my dogs through agility for fun. I know in the back of my mind that agility competitions are not going to fall off the face of the earth 2 days before I decide to dive in and compete. For now, it's fun, and a great stress reliever/bond builder for me and my dogs. The joke at class if I'll be ready to compete circa 2015  No one pressures me, even though they say Tag is ready, they respect the fact that I am not. 
As far as competing in rally, it doesn't really make me as nervous as agility because I've been in the rally ring before. My biggest mistake with my last rally dog was diving into competition before we were ready and squeaking by. With Tag, my goal is to train well through Excellent before even THINKING about competing in Novice. If I know my dog is trained/proofed to do hard courses off leash, competing on an easy course ON leash won't seem so scary, kwim?



Locke said:


> Thanks for the replies. The disc dog environment sounds a lot like the ultimate frisbee environment. I love the diversity, the positivity and laid back nature of disc sports, so I'm glad to hear its the same with the dogs. Unfortunately, My current dogs are not interested in discs, and it will be a while before I add a new dog to the family. Maybe I'll start with agility and then get into disc with my next dog.
> I figured flyball, as a team sport, wouldn't really work, but I enjoy tram sports, so maybe competing wouldn't be so scary.
> 
> 
> ...


I'll take the one you don't get! They are SO cute...


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Locke said:


> Thanks for the replies. The disc dog environment sounds a lot like the ultimate frisbee environment. I love the diversity, the positivity and laid back nature of disc sports, so I'm glad to hear its the same with the dogs.


Ah, you're into ultimate, too! I played through college and a year in grad school as well. In college, I enjoyed the ultimate environment a lot - nice and laid back, but when I moved to OR and played for a summer here, it was a little too competitive for my tastes. I'm on the small side, and I just got sick of people twice my size covering me like nobody's business and blocking every throw. I felt like I was dragging down my team, and I wasn't having much fun at it, so I quit. I wanted a partner who would work WITH me, rather than an opponent who would work AGAINST me. Hence the dog.

Anyway, if you're already playing ultimate, your previous disc skills will come in handy when it comes to doing it with a dog. And you've probably already experienced as much competitiveness as you'll find in disc sports.
Out of curiosity, why is it that you're not interested in competing? Is it that you don't want to perform in front of people (sort of like nerves associated with public speaking)? Or just that you don't want to be judged as better or worse than anyone?


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## Locke (Nov 3, 2008)

LazyG - So glad to hear from a non-competer (not a word, but it is now) in agility. It's so reassuring to hear you are not being pushed into competing, I hope I can find a club that will accept my non-competive ways as well.

GLM - I've been playing ultimate for the past 5 years, and hope to play as long as my body is willing. Best sport ever, in my opinion. I play at an intermediate level right now, and have no desire to play competitively. Competitive ultimate is SERIOUS stuff. There are literally no drops, huge layout defence, and you basically go full out EVERY point. Too intense for me!

My dislike of competing is partly/mostly due to having to perform in front of people, and partly because I hate being sucky at something I want to be good at. It sucks the motivation out of me. Instead of working harder to get better, I give up and find something I am naturally good at...so being judged against others is not my favourite thing in the world. That's why I want to get into disc dog so badly. I can already throw a disc well, so I have a good starting base for disc dog...aside from the actual dog, and I am past the point of being insecure about my throwing abilities that I wouldn't give up if we didn't do so well at first. 

I think I should really just challenge myself and get over this silliness about having to be good at everything I try...


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I would say that competitive obedience is probably one of the dog sports where you will see that competitiveness come out. I joke around....novice obedience and Open A isn't not too bad. But, when you start moving up in the titles, people tend to get a little crazed about it. People battling for OTCH points, in my opinion and the opinion of several people I know in the obedience world have started to take the fun out of obedience. I would rather play in agility to be honest...you're competing against yourself there.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I think Agility is one of the best things to get into. You and your dog have so much fun and if you do decide to compete, you are not trying to beat someone else. You and your dog are out there to just have fun and try and complete the courses without going Off-course or making any mistakes. As dogs will be dogs and it is usually the handler that causes the mistakes you soon learn that "Q" ing is not going to happen every time.

I like ring-crewing at the trials as you get to watch all the dogs. When you see the dogs that have been competing for years, still making mistakes, you realize your own dog is doing really well and it gives you incentive to keep trying.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Locke said:


> LazyG - So glad to hear from a non-competer (not a word, but it is now) in agility. It's so reassuring to hear you are not being pushed into competing, I hope I can find a club that will accept my non-competive ways as well.


Don't settle for anything less. I can't say enough good about my trainer for agility and rally. Even my mom (who comes to a few classes to watch) mentioned how upbeat and positive she is. I like the fact that if for some reason my dog (or anyone elses dog) suddenly "forgets" something, according to her it's nothing personal, kwim? Meaning I guess that you shouldn't get your panties in a wad because your dog blew a contact, just go back and work on it for a few seconds and move on. If I were pressured into competing, I can guarantee you that I would not be doing this right now 



Kyllobernese said:


> I think Agility is one of the best things to get into. You and your dog have so much fun and if you do decide to compete, you are not trying to beat someone else. You and your dog are out there to just have fun and try and complete the courses without going Off-course or making any mistakes. As dogs will be dogs and it is usually the handler that causes the mistakes you soon learn that "Q" ing is not going to happen every time.
> *
> I like ring-crewing at the trials as you get to watch all the dogs. When you see the dogs that have been competing for years, still making mistakes, you realize your own dog is doing really well and it gives you incentive to keep trying.*


I'm shamless at trials. I stare, I gawk, it's almost obscene!  My first agility trial I went to, I watched whatever the entry level classes are, and saw a lot of dogs get zoomies, pop weave poles, miss jumps, etc. I watch a lot of the really advanced stuff on you tube, and watching the less experienced makes it seem so much less scary. If the worst thing that ever happens at a trial is Tag pops a weave pole or gets a quick zoomie, I've nothing to fear. I do know my dog is doing very well, he's medium drive for his breed and has great focus. I figure I could get last place and an NQ at every single trial we enter and I'd STILL take the best dog home with me. Aren't I lucky? 



MrsBoats said:


> I would say that competitive obedience is probably one of the dog sports where you will see that competitiveness come out. I joke around....novice obedience and Open A isn't not too bad. But, when you start moving up in the titles, people tend to get a little crazed about it. People battling for OTCH points, in my opinion and the opinion of several people I know in the obedience world have started to take the fun out of obedience. I would rather play in agility to be honest...you're competing against yourself there.


I met some really, REALLY nice people in obedience and some really not so nice people who seemed to think a HIT was a life or death experience. (If 1/2 point off in the Utility Ring ever means I develop a snotty attitude towards my dog and spectators, I want every single person here to throttle me til my eyes pop out.) It's the same with conformation shows I've gone to. Most are wonderful, a few are not. One man with papillons looked at my dog in utter disgust because he's a BYB'ed dog. His own dogs were snarling and attacking the X-pen at anyone who walked by, while my ill-bred dog and I earned our TDI and spent the rest of the day snuggling and taking in the sights. Pretty is as pretty does, IMO. 
I met a very nice lady with a beautiful, sweet borzoi about 4 years ago at a dog show. Never met her in my life, but I commented on her dog (I love sighthounds) and she went on and on about what a sweet, biddable, easy to live with dog she was, and how she got along with everyone. Before we said goodbye, I wished her luck in the show ring, and she told me they had already shown for the day. I said "how did you do?" and she wrist-flip casually mentioned they got first, as if having a blue ribbon was the icing on the cake for having a wonderful, sound, sane companion. Way it ought to be, IMO.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Locke, If I remember correctly you are in Toronto? 
All About Dogs has a great space and classes in the Lawrence and Dufferin area if you are interested. I was there for their open house a couple of weeks ago. We did an intro to the equipment, checked out the space and did our CGN there. The main trainer, Renee DeVilliers was quite nice and her staff were all nice and very positive. It's a clicker/positive environment. Might be worth you looking into it. I'm hoping to get into it with Cracker later in the fall or early New Year, when I have some money to try it.

http://www.allaboutdogs.ca/

I think LynnI here on Dogforums is also familiar with Renee.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Locke said:


> GLM - I've been playing ultimate for the past 5 years, and hope to play as long as my body is willing. Best sport ever, in my opinion. I play at an intermediate level right now, and have no desire to play competitively. Competitive ultimate is SERIOUS stuff. There are literally no drops, huge layout defence, and you basically go full out EVERY point. Too intense for me!
> 
> My dislike of competing is partly/mostly due to having to perform in front of people, and partly because I hate being sucky at something I want to be good at. It sucks the motivation out of me. Instead of working harder to get better, I give up and find something I am naturally good at...so being judged against others is not my favourite thing in the world. That's why I want to get into disc dog so badly. I can already throw a disc well, so I have a good starting base for disc dog...aside from the actual dog, and I am past the point of being insecure about my throwing abilities that I wouldn't give up if we didn't do so well at first.
> 
> I think I should really just challenge myself and get over this silliness about having to be good at everything I try...


The vast majority of people you're going to meet in disc dogging got their dog, saw a disc at the store, and thought "hey, I wonder if my dog could catch this?" They bought the disc, took the dog to the park, and discovered that the dog had a natural talent. They also discovered quickly that they had NO CLUE how to throw a disc. 
What you won't find in disc dogging is a lot of people like you and me: people who were into disc before they were into dogs. 
That puts you WAY ahead of the game. You're going to look like a God compared to the newbies who have never throw a disc. I would bet that you could be competitive within a year of getting your disc dog, provided that your dog is old enough to start training right away.

I would encourage you to attend a competition or two, even before you get a disc dog. Of the errors that occur, count how many are the fault of the handler vs. the fault of the dog. You'll quickly see that most errors land squarely on the shoulders of the handler. The reason for this is, even if you DO know how to throw (which many handers don't), adding a dog to the equation changes things. I could probably count Kit's competition errors (drops) on the fingers of one hand. Mine are more numerous, though.

That brings me to my last point...
Disc dogging will improve your disc skills. Not only do you learn to perform with hundreds of people watching, but you're so busy thinking about what the dog is doing, that throwing the disc has to be almost automatic. And that's just for distance/accuracy. When you get into freestyle, you're really challenged to learn lots of fancy new throws and tricks that you'd never use in ultimate, all while worrying about what the dog is doing, too. I would argue that disc is a team sport, just as much as agility is a team sport: to be successful, you AND the dog both need to have talent, skill, and luck.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Depends on where you train in agility. All of my instructors are very good. I have only had one who thought that you had to compete and kept bugging me about it. It took me almost three years until I felt I was ready. The bad part about this instructor is that he got bored teaching me because I was not bringing in brags to class like everyone else. (He is the only instructor that asks about brags). He even "forgets" my dog sometimes when we are practicing courses in class. When I started competing his attitude changed toward my dog and me. But then again he is the only one out of all (7) that has that attitude. All my other instructors are very positive and supportive. It is a very fun sport. I love to "play" agility with my dogs and they love it too.


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