# Dog's in heat. When do I introduce the male?



## Jimbalyia (Apr 18, 2007)

Hi folks! I'm new here and would like to breed my Brussles. She just went into heat, (3-5 days now). I have a stud ready. I was wanting to know how many times do the dogs need to be together to ensure a pregnancy and, once she takes, how many pups to expect. I know this may sound silly. I know it only takes one time to get pregnant, however I'm not sure if multiple pairings should be done to ENSURE that the female takes. I was thinking of leaving the dogs together for a few days during her second week of heat. Any suggestions???? Only a few days left. 

Thanks!


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## Jaylie (Mar 5, 2007)

Well...You are going to hear ALOT of what I'm about to say.

WHY on EARTH are you breeding your dog when you don't even know how to? The best advice I can give you is, DON'T breed her!!


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

This is a tough one.

Sine you're new here, you probably don't realize that there is some widespread sentiment against amateur breeding of dogs. There are too many things that can go wrong and it seems unlikely that, with the type of questions you're asking, that you've done all the health testing necessary to ensure healthy pups and breed maintenance.

Before you start thinking I'm some kind of breeder elitist, I know less about breeding than you do, which is why my dog was spayed the day after we got her.

You asked for suggestions. My suggestion, and I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, would be to have your dog spayed.

I look forward to other opinions, which I will delete. (Just kidding.)

Welcome to the forum. We are a good bunch, but highly opinionated.


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

What RonE said...my suggestion is you get her SPAYED.


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## adidas5676 (Mar 7, 2007)

There is a lot of information you have not yet provided to us about this situation.

1. How old is the female? She should be AT LEAST 2 years old before being bred, as anything younger than that is equivalent to a teenage human having a baby.

2. If she has met the above requirement, is the stud also a Bruss_els_? I hope it was a typo that you misspelled the breed name of your dog, otherwise I advise against breeding.

3. If above requirements have been met, have both dogs had ALL recommended vaccines, health screens, and tests by a licensed veterinarian and there is purpose to breeding these animals besides the reason of having more dogs (i.e. they BOTH conform to breed standard and are quality examples of the breed, with a documented official ancestry)?

4. If all above requirements have been met, but you are not sure exactly how to breed, I would let this season pass and do EVERY BIT OF RESEARCH you possibly can so when her next heat comes, you know exactly what to do and expect. 

There is more to breeding than sticking to canines together and hoping for the best.


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## sillylilykitty (Mar 11, 2007)

If I know more about breeding than you do and you have to come on a dog forum to figure out how, Im guessing you dont have a mentor, and you should not be breeding.

You should get your dogs spayed. Where did you get your dogs? From a responsible breeder or from a back yard breeder/ puppy mill, or was it a pet shop? If you got your dogs from a resposible breeder than why arent you asking them?


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## Renoman (Mar 20, 2007)

I agree, get your dog spayed. With all the homeless/abandoned dogs and puppies out there now why on earth would you want to add to their numbers? And you obviously have no idea what you're doing why are you willing to put your dog through it?


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## Channing (Apr 18, 2007)

sorry bout im gonna agree for your dogs sake please dont breed her.
heres a few things to think about BEFORE you breed.

1. why are you breeding? if its for money forget it if your not doing to better your breed then your just adding to the rescue and pounds probelms
2. the age of the dogs? dont breed if the under 3 yrs of age they havent stoped growing.
3. they must be in prime condtion. 
4 extra vet bills
5.extra food bills
6. what do you do if she abandons her pups do you know how to hand rear them?
7. what r you gonna do if something goes wrong during laber?
8. what about puppies you cant sell? if taking to the pound or giving them away is an option for you you shouldn't have dogs peroid.
9. YOUR DOG CAN DIE is this a chance your willing to take.

if your going to breed do your homework and find someone to help you. the world does not need more puppies we are over run already. the best thing you can do is get her fixed she'll be healthier and you will not have missed anything. i do applaud you though for asking instead of just doing.

sorry this isnt want you want to hear but your dog will thank you.


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## Jimbalyia (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, I realize I may come off as someone who has no right to breed my dog in your opinions. i.e. I'm not a "breeder". However, the breeder I purchased my dog from has since past away. I had to go to Montana to find a reliable breeder for this dog. I did my research prior to purchase. I have been doing research now prior to breedeing. I have no problem waiting for the next heat cycle. I'm in no hurry here. Just thought since I have the stud, the dogs are of age (female is 4 1/2, male is 3), welping pen, vitamins, shots, worming, and all has been taken care of that I would try breeding her. I don't take offense when you all tell me to spay my dog. Nor do I take offense when told I don't know what I'm doing. You don't know me. All your doing is making sure that more unwanted or off-breeds are being pumped out by folks who have no idea what they are getting involoved in. That to me sounds like the type of folks I want to get answers from. You obviously care about dogs!


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

simply put....you don't...you don't seem to know enuff about what you're doing to be breeding......


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Jimbalyia said:


> Well, I realize I may come off as someone who has no right to breed my dog in your opinions. i.e. I'm not a "breeder". However, the breeder I purchased my dog from has since past away. I had to go to Montana to find a reliable breeder for this dog. I did my research prior to purchase. I have been doing research now prior to breedeing. I have no problem waiting for the next heat cycle. I'm in no hurry here. Just thought since I have the stud, the dogs are of age (female is 4 1/2, male is 3), welping pen, vitamins, shots, worming, and all has been taken care of that I would try breeding her. I don't take offense when you all tell me to spay my dog. Nor do I take offense when told I don't know what I'm doing. You don't know me. All your doing is making sure that more unwanted or off-breeds are being pumped out by folks who have no idea what they are getting involoved in. That to me sounds like the type of folks I want to get answers from. You obviously care about dogs!


have you had your female tested for any and all genetic problems?....has she been "evaluated" as an excellent specimen of her breed?.....how about the male?......do you know what is going to happen to all the puppies B/4 breeding (do you have homes lined up for them) and are you willing to take any (or all) of them back at any time of their life?......all this should be taken into consideration b/4 breeding


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## Snowshoe (Nov 17, 2006)

Actually, we're mostly of the opinion that only titled dogs who have had the proper health certifications should be bred. 

May I ask you some questions? (LOL, good, because I'm going to anyway)

1) What health testing have you done? Taking your dog to the vet is the minimum you should do. 

How did your dog's/bitch's hips rate? 
How did their eyes rate? 
How did their elbows/knees rate? 
What genetic diseases did you test for? Epilepsie?

I'm assuming you know this since you are breeding. I'm sure you would not want to bring dogs into the world who would be crippled early in life, or go blind, or have seizures, right? 

And, I'm sure you know that the only way to know for sure is to have them certified through PennHip, OFA, and CERF. 

2) What titles does your bitch/dog have? Are they champions, or at least pointed? Do you do agility? Obedience? 

I'm assuming your dogs have titles, because as a good breeder, you know that the only way to prove your dogs are of breeding quality is to compete against other dogs. After all, what is the point to breeding mediocre dogs? 

I'm sure you agree that most of the purebred dogs in shelters come from back yard breeders and puppy mills. I know you wouldn't want to contribute to that. 

3) What does your mentor think about all of this? Mentors are an invaluable resource in breeding, showing, whatever. 

4) Are you a member of the Brussels Griffon Club of America? I'm sure that you are, as you are a good breeder. 

Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Have you had the breed reccomended OFA and CERF tests to be sure she (and the stud) are free of hereditary problems, some of which don't show up until later in life? 
Here are the reccomened tests
CERF (eyes)
OFA for Pateller Luxation
OFA Hips

Here is the Breed Club, which has some good guidelines for responsible breeding. You could find a good mentor through them. They also have good reccomendations concerning health garauntees and buyer contracts.

http://www.brussels-griffon.info/


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## Jimbalyia (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, it seems by this forum that not only am I uneducated in the fine art of breeding dogs, but I am going to remain that way. Just so you can all sleep well, I will not be breeding her....this time. I will however continue to do my research and perhaps find some individual(s) that are willing to offer some advise that would be useful. I do however understand how deeply you all feel about the well being of the animals. It does strike me as odd, that only one person who responded to my question has been on this forum for more that a month. Thanks anyway.


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## sillylilykitty (Mar 11, 2007)

Jimbalyia said:


> Well, I realize I may come off as someone who has no right to breed my dog in your opinions. i.e. I'm not a "breeder". However, the breeder I purchased my dog from has since past away. I had to go to Montana to find a reliable breeder for this dog. I did my research prior to purchase. I have been doing research now prior to breedeing. I have no problem waiting for the next heat cycle. I'm in no hurry here. Just thought since I have the stud, the dogs are of age (female is 4 1/2, male is 3), welping pen, vitamins, shots, worming, and all has been taken care of that I would try breeding her. I don't take offense when you all tell me to spay my dog. Nor do I take offense when told I don't know what I'm doing. You don't know me. All your doing is making sure that more unwanted or off-breeds are being pumped out by folks who have no idea what they are getting involoved in. That to me sounds like the type of folks I want to get answers from. You obviously care about dogs!


Well think about it, im not trying to be mean or anything but just stop and think. From what you are saying it sounds like this: I have a female dog, I have a "stud" dog, I have all the equipment and I have the money so I want to breed. But why breed? There are already plenty of dogs, are you planning on keeping a puppy? Do you want 3 dogs? What will you do with the puppies?

I know breeding and having puppies around sounds very fun, I know, I have been in the position and I still have the oportunity to start my own breeding program. But I thought, why make more animals? There are tons of innocent and excellent dogs and cats in the pounds that are just waiting for people to take them home. They deserve good homes too.

So please dont breed just because you can. And if you do decide to breed, please do the tests and make sure your dogs are in tip top shape.


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## Cassie Nova (Dec 24, 2006)

http://www.geocities.com/bluegracepwd/virtualbreeding.html

Don't breed your dog. I don't care what kind of testing you've had done on your dog, if you're on a forum asking for advice, you don't know near enough.

But, if you insist on breeding a dog, breed one on the website posted above. At least those dogs don't really exist and won't suffer due to ignorance in the owner.

Sorry if we sound brutal, but for the most part, we are all against breeding unless you are a reliable breeder (no offense- you don't sound like one) and we mostly have shelter dogs, rescues, etc. And our dogs were where they were due to people that breed irresponsibly (which will be you if you breed these dogs). Get your dog SPAYED, stick around here, and you'll be a responsible owner and have fun with some genuinely nice people.


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## ChRotties (Mar 8, 2007)

My suggestion is to start attending dog shows. Find a mentor for your breed. Find out the ins and outs, and indeed IF your dogs are worthy of being bred.

For now, I would highly recommend keeping them seperated. You have much to learn, grasshopper


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## Snowshoe (Nov 17, 2006)

Jimbalyia said:


> Well, it seems by this forum that not only am I uneducated in the fine art of breeding dogs, but I am going to remain that way. Just so you can all sleep well, I will not be breeding her....this time. I will however continue to do my research and perhaps find some individual(s) that are willing to offer some advise that would be useful. I do however understand how deeply you all feel about the well being of the animals. It does strike me as odd, that only one person who responded to my question has been on this forum for more that a month. Thanks anyway.


Huh? I've been here for since December of 2006. That's 4 months... 

Anyway, you should stick around. I mean, you're bound to learn something, right?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

We have given you advice, I just hope you will take it and get the testing done and find a local mentor. 

A GOOD responsible mentor is the BEST resource for this info, not the internet. Oh, BTW, any site I've been on that has responsible breeders and rescuers will give you the same info. Many breed specific sites will NOT be as nice as we are here. I have seen potential breeders torn apart on some of the sites. 

If you are saying this because you're not hearing what you want to hear, I'm sorry we are honest about our feelings. If you had come here and said I have my testing done and my girl is championed, it might have been different, but we still wuld have reccomended a local mentor.


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## Jimbalyia (Apr 18, 2007)

I would like to respond to Snowshoe. . . 
1. I have had the dogs into the vet, they are both fine for breeding.
2. The dogs have never been shown so no titles are held. Both are papered dogs from a reputable breeder.
3. I don't have a mentor. Can't seem to find anyone willing to offer any advise.
4. I am not a member nor am I a "breeder"


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

If you're not a member nor a breeder, don't breed. You can join the club for around 20.00 a year and have contact with reputable breeders who might well be willing to teach you. You just have to be more willing to learn from them than you are us.


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## ChRotties (Mar 8, 2007)

Jimbalyia said:


> Well, it seems by this forum that not only am I uneducated in the fine art of breeding dogs, but I am going to remain that way. Just so you can all sleep well, I will not be breeding her....this time. I will however continue to do my research and perhaps find some individual(s) that are willing to offer some advise that would be useful. I do however understand how deeply you all feel about the well being of the animals. It does strike me as odd, that only one person who responded to my question has been on this forum for more that a month. Thanks anyway.


I may be relatively "new" to this forum, but I have been involved in purebred dogs since '92. Maybe now I have more time on my hands? You have been given GREAT advice and have been asked questions that you should be able to answer..that any REPUTABLE breeder would gladly answer.

Anyone can breed dogs...those folks are called back yard breeders and puppy mills. The RESPONSIBLE/ETHICAL breeder shows their dogs in conformation and / or performance events (therefore proving their specimens are indeed worthy of being bred), knows what things to health test for (and as in most little guys, patellar luxation is a big problem) and does so,,,,a RESPONSIBLE breeder will be responsible for the puppies they produce for those offspring's entire lives (i.e., willing to take them back for any reason at any point in their lives)....

Please do your homework....get involved in the breed club, go to some dog shows, put yourself in the "student" mode....there are those willing to teach, if you are willing to learn.


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## Jimbalyia (Apr 18, 2007)

I came here with the intent on learning. That was why I ask what I know to be a question that will spark emotion. I am not taking offense to the responses I am getting. I would just like to hear facts instead of opinion. Some of you have done just that. Thanks to you. The fact that I am still here listening to this ridicule should say something about me, eh? I am learning a few things in the process so all is not a loss.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Jimbalyia said:


> I don't take offense when you all tell me to spay my dog. Nor do I take offense when told I don't know what I'm doing. You don't know me.


Well, good, as long as you're not offended.

You're absolutely right. We don't know you. We can only offer opinions based on what you've presented to us here.

So far, the unanimous opinion, based on what you've told us, is that breeding your dog at this time would be a big mistake.

I'm truly sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear. 

For what it's worth, at least half the opinions that people get here aren't the ones they'd hoped for, but they are honest opinions from experienced people who watch out for those that can't watch out for themselves.

If you were looking for cheerleaders, I'm sure there are forums where you'll be told, "Just leave 'em together and they'll take care of the rest. Dogs have been breeding for a really long time without any help from us."


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## ChRotties (Mar 8, 2007)

That's great that you're still here...most folks that pose the question you did...well, let's just say it doesn't end pretty  

Ok, lesson one: Heath screenings do not equate to "my vet says they are breedable and healthy" Please visit the OFA website www.offa.org (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) They issue certificates (health certificates, that is) and evaluate hips (for hip dysplasia, which is DEVASTATING), elbows (for elbow dysplasia), Patellas (patellar luxation), eyes (cataracts, a variety of other diseases), hearts (murmors, dilated cardio myopathy, plus others)...your vet should be familiar with the OFA, if not, FIND A NEW ONE! 

Refer to the Brussels national parent club website as cshellenberger suggested...each breed has health issues that need to be screened for and cleared of before being bred. 

I see you are from Michigan? There are all breed kennel clubs in your area...it would be great for you to join one and learn..


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I really hope you are. I was raised by a responsible breeder and know it is a TON of work to raise any litter of pups. Growing up in I decided it just isn't for me. I can give you good book referances to help you out too, but nothing replaces a mentor, someone you can call when things go wrong or look scary. Someone experienced with your breed who will know how to help you deliver the pups and when to take mom to the vet if there are complications before they become life threatening for mom and pups. 

I don't know abot BG's but I do know a little about the Brachycephaic breeds having a pug and a Bulldog, and they often run into complications during whelping due to the head size and are more prone to needing emergency Csections. In fact some, like the English Bulldog are reccomended to ALWAYS deliver C Section. That is something that an experienced breeder and mentor will know. 

We really aren't trying to be mean, just to educate. With so many dogs in rescue and shelters, it's important to be responsible for any dogs you produce. In fact, if you look futher down in this forum you will see what a great breeder is willing to do when one of their offspring dies of what could potentially be a hereditary illness. 
http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/7418-trying-heal.html


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## Jimbalyia (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, I will continue to do my homework. At least now I have some questions to take to the vet. I will however have to convince the folks that were going to take puppies that they should look into getting an abandoned dog from a local shelter.  Thanks again to those who gave some insight as to where to go and what to look into. I will check back to see what other comments I have stired up. Hope I have not spoiled anyones evening with the ideas of another "backyard breeder" out there. My breedeing days are as of now on hold.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

BTW, WELCOME


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## ChRotties (Mar 8, 2007)

Please stick around! 
Welcome to the forum, btw!

Kudos to you for being willing to keep your mind open and learn  

There are some great threads on here on breeding..etc..


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Jimbalyia said:


> Any suggestions???? Only a few days left.


Now I'M offended.

You asked for suggestions and, when you received them, you call it ridicule?

You want facts? Here are some facts.

There is a chance that your dog will die delivering a litter. There's a good chance that one or more of the pups will die, and that chance is greatly increased without expert help. Without complete health screening, there's an awfully good chance that one or more of the pups will develop health problems. That often results in abandonment or surrender to a shelter. The shelters don't need your pups. They have plenty.

Are you in a position to offer a health guarantee? Will you contract for first right of refusal if one of the pup's owners needs to surrender him for any reason. The people you're going to want to sell the pups to are going to insist on both these things.

I'm sorry you're feeling abused here. Quite frankly, I'm sick to death of people asking for suggestions and then getting hurt feelings when those suggestions don't fall in line with what they'd hoped for.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

> I'm sorry you're feeling abused here. Quite frankly, I'm sick to death of people asking for suggestions and then getting hurt feelings when those suggestions don't fall in line with what they'd hoped for.


Ever think that maybe it is because every single member of the group jumps down the person’s throat accusing them of being a bad person for even thinking about breeding their dogs? Ever think people feel like this because they are being attacked? I don't think I’ve seen a topic yet from a NEW member that hasn't been either a generic reply or a post attacking the person posting the topic.

It's really sad too; this forum looked great at first. Looks can be deceiving.

Jimbalyia, The best advice I can give you is find a different forum for your questions. This forum is a lost cause…


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

Jimbalyia said:


> Well, I will continue to do my homework. At least now I have some questions to take to the vet. I will however have to convince the folks that were going to take puppies that they should look into getting an abandoned dog from a local shelter.  Thanks again to those who gave some insight as to where to go and what to look into. I will check back to see what other comments I have stired up. Hope I have not spoiled anyones evening with the ideas of another "backyard breeder" out there. My breedeing days are as of now on hold.


I am a breeder and am glad that you decided to put your breeding aspirations on hold...... I don't breed often and have to say that the best thing that you can do if you have any inclination towards breeding in the future is to go to a few dog shows.... you can find a list at the AKC site or at infodog.com...... go to the shows.... and join your national breed club. It is difficult because your breeder has died.... but try and find someone with your breed who could help you evaluate your girl and can help you determine what you are really looking for in a stud dog.... while I realize you said you had a stud lined up... .there is alot to learn about structure and movement as well as health and genetics in a pedigree and as much as I know.... there is plenty more that I don't know and with that I have done my best to surround myself with "old timers" who have been in the breed longer than I have and have knowledge to spare. 

You don't sound like someone that is going to just jump in ...... however, there is alot to learn and breeding is not for the faint of heart.... for every litter that goes wonderfully there are many that lose puppies (as I did, having a pup die in my arms as I raced him to a vet) or who lose their bitches..... 

find yourself a mentor.... that is my advice to you ..... 
dont rely on your vet.... vets know about medicine but know little about husbandry and that is the stuff you need to learn.... join your national breed club and learn about your breed....and consider showing your dog or doing performance events or doing something to make your dog prove that she is worth adding her genes to the gene pool...... 

good luck with your decisions and finding someone to help you...... 
S


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Darkmoon said:


> Ever think that maybe it is because every single member of the group jumps down the person’s throat accusing them of being a bad person for even thinking about breeding their dogs? Ever think people feel like this because they are being attacked? I don't think I’ve seen a topic yet from a NEW member that hasn't been either a generic reply or a post attacking the person posting the topic.
> 
> It's really sad too; this forum looked great at first. Looks can be deceiving.
> 
> Jimbalyia, The best advice I can give you is find a different forum for your questions. This forum is a lost cause…


Darkmoon, if you feel attacked, move on. This person is willing to learn.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Actually, i think they gave great advice, and I really didn't see anyone jump down another person's throat. Breeding is complicated- much more than most people think. 

To Jimbalyia, honestly, I'm on several dog forums. They'll give you the same advice you've gotten here, sometimes in a not so nice manner. Most people agree that health testing, temperament and titles are vital requirements for breeding. I am one of them.

If you really are looking to breed, go to a show and start making contacts and learning the ropes. It's a long hard road to learn how to do this properly. The first step is to find someone responsible in your breed to talk to. They should be able to help a lot with questions. 

This forum is a good board as are others, but sometimes you're not going to hear what you want to hear. I hope you stick around though.


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## luv4gsds (Jul 27, 2006)

Well since the members have already given you great advice, I will just say this. Please make sure you have the dam tested for these things and make sure the sire also been tested and that his ancestry has also been test.

Hips/Elbows
* OFA- http://www.offa.org/
* PennHIP- http://www.pennhip.org/

Eyes
* CERF- http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html

The heart, thyroid and hearing also should be tested.

Make sure that the sire has been tested for brucellosis before breeding and the dam also.

* Brucellosis- http://www.spc.int/rahs/Manual/Canine-Feline/BRUCELLOSIS(CANINE)E.HTM

Here are a few books on dog breeding.
* The Complete Book of Dog Breeding
* Genetics for Dog Breeders
* Allen's Fertility & Obstetrics in the Dog
* Breeding Better Dogs


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

luv4gsds said:


> Hips/Elbows
> * OFA- http://www.offa.org/
> * PennHIP- http://www.pennhip.org/
> 
> ...


Actually hips/elbows are rarely done in toys. You should OFA the knees at least as that's a much bigger problem imo. Luxating Patellas are one of the most prevalent toy breed conditions.


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

luv4gsds said:


> Well since the members have already given you great advice, I will just say this. Please make sure you have the dam tested for these things and make sure the sire also been tested and that his ancestry has also been test.
> 
> Hips/Elbows
> * OFA- http://www.offa.org/
> ...


I agree with laurelin on this with regard to hips and elbows..... the best thing that the original poster could do is join her national breed club and find a mentor in her breed as these two individuals will help her to determine what are actually required and necessary clearances for her breed. I am not familiar with Brussels Griffons other that I thik they are adorable..... however I know in my breed, we don't require elbows, heart, thyroid or BAER tests ..... it all depends on your breed...... 

in flat coats we require hips, patellas, eye...
in goldens we require hips, elbows, heart and eye...... 

it all depends on the breed. 

dalmations require BAER for sure and some others but I know they require the BAER

by joining her breed club and finding a mentor she will find information specific to her breed. 
s


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## Cassie Nova (Dec 24, 2006)

Sorry if I sounded offensive, and I'm glad you've changed your mind and decided to do some research. The only reason we get so strongly opinionated is because A) we get questions like this all the time and *most* people (certianly not you) just want to breed because they think their dog is cute and B) because of all of the dogs in shelters, etc.

Welcome, and I hope you stick around.


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## luv4gsds (Jul 27, 2006)

> Actually hips/elbows are rarely done in toys. You should OFA the knees at least as that's a much bigger problem imo. Luxating Patellas are one of the most prevalent toy breed conditions.


Sorry I did not know what breed of dog it is.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

luv4gsds said:


> Sorry I did not know what breed of dog it is.


No problem, just giving my 2 cents. I know how awful HD is in GSDs. We had a GSDx with HD and it was really hard.


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## luv4gsds (Jul 27, 2006)

> No problem, just giving my 2 cents. I know how awful HD is in GSDs. We had a GSDx with HD and it was really hard.


Sometimes I forget that this forum is an all breed forum. But I over looked about what breed it was.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Here's a link to the parent club for the Brussels Griffon, they are affilliated with the AKC.
National Breed Club
You can try to contact the breeders there and see if any of them will help mentor you. Keep in mind that unless these breeders are retired they do have a day job, while they should be more then will to help guide you in the right direction some may not be so willing.

Here's a list that you can use to search for dog shows in your area.
Show Search

All of this information can be found very easily using the AKC website.
AKC


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## Jingles (Apr 15, 2007)

Just want to get my two cents in regarding finding yourself a mentor.. I have personal experience with this.. I've had dogs all my life.. raised with GSDs on a ranch and then slowly moved to rescued PBs.. now.. I have recently (the past 6 months) found myself prancing (excuse me.. performing the crouching lunge move) around the ring with afghan hounds. The breeder of these dogs has been amazing in sharing knowledge with me. I thought I knew how to spot a good dog before but have since learned what a good dog REALLY consists of and why breeding for the "cuteness of it all" is such a bad idea. I have also moved closer to getting my PhD in animal behavior and have written a paper or two on pet overpopulation - believe me.. breeding without knowing what you're doing is not good for anyone.. find yourself a mentor and you'll be amazed at what you learn.. I know I was


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Jingles said:


> I have recently (the past 6 months) found myself prancing (excuse me.. performing the crouching lunge move) around the ring with afghan hounds. The breeder of these dogs has been amazing in sharing knowledge with me. I thought I knew how to spot a good dog before but have since learned what a good dog REALLY consists of and why breeding for the "cuteness of it all" is such a bad idea.


You get to prance around with Afghans!!! I'm sooo incredibly jeaslous. I want one soo bad. You'll have to PM and let me know which breeder your working with.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

For Darkmoon, or anyone who thinks the replies here were harsh: Do you disagree with the advice given? Do you have an opposing opinion you'd like to present?

The responses weren't so much generic as they were unanimous. Yes, it would take a little courage to post an idea that's less popular. But, if it's presented intelligently, you just might get away with it.

I'm still waiting for anyone to say they think breeding this dog at this time is a good idea.


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

Well I think it is too bad this person just asked a question and got about 20 questions fired back at him. Maybe it would have been nicer to nicely tell the person what you know about responsible breeding and maybe answer the original question.

At least the person is still willing to stay on the forum anyway as it is a very dog smart forum and pretty fun too.


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## Snowshoe (Nov 17, 2006)

I don't think the replies were harsh. I just don't think it's what the OP wanted to hear. 

No foul language was used, and the advice, as Rone pointed out, was unanimous, not "generic." 

Darkmoon, I respectively disagree with every word of your post. The worst thing he could do would be to move to another forum where everyone was gung-ho for breeding. 

He is very uneducated about animal husbandry, and there are so many things that can go wrong during the birthing process. 

There are many other forums that are much, much harsher then this one. Out of the three I keep tabs on occasionally, this one is the most poster friendly.


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## Snowshoe (Nov 17, 2006)

peace36 said:


> Well I think it is too bad this person just asked a question and got about 20 questions fired back at him.


Peace, sometimes you have to ask questions to make sure you're giving the correct advice. 

Personally, I'm glad that all of the questions were asked, and that no one was like, "Oh, yes! Go and breed! Can I have a puppy???"

Aren't you glad when someone who needs to learn more about breeding to produce good, healthy dogs is dissuaded from making a mistake? 

I think that if you think about it, you'll understand.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Darkmoon said:


> I don't think I’ve seen a topic yet from a NEW member that hasn't been either a generic reply or a post attacking the person posting the topic.


That is a truly outrageous statement and, if it were true, there would be nothing but masochists on this board.

I do think we sometimes have a tendency to pile on, though I doubt it's intentional. There are only so many different ways to say, "You're not ready to be a breeder."


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## luv4gsds (Jul 27, 2006)

(waving the white flag)

Well my last post I made was not that much help to you but hey! I gave it a try.

If you cannot find a reputable breeder to *mentor* you (I know within my breed some are not so forthcoming with info or help) look into those books I posted before hand. 

I would also join a local dog club in your area. The more you do with your dog the more you become to understand the breed (showing is not everything). 

Do not just breed your dog because it has papers or you think it is the apple of your eye. *You want to improve the breed from the inside out.*

I just want to say this I have known dams that have killed their own pups and I have known some that have refused to feed and clean up after the pups pee and poop. Not all female dogs make great mothers.

What I am trying to say make sure you have thought about the pros and cons about breeding.

Please make sure you have done all the health testing with in your dogs breed and that the male has also along with the ancestry on both sides.


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## FranMan (Jan 1, 2007)

Jimbalyia said:


> Hi folks! I'm new here and would like to breed my Brussles. She just went into heat, (3-5 days now). I have a stud ready. I was wanting to know how many times do the dogs need to be together to ensure a pregnancy and, once she takes, how many pups to expect. I know this may sound silly. I know it only takes one time to get pregnant, however I'm not sure if multiple pairings should be done to ENSURE that the female takes. I was thinking of leaving the dogs together for a few days during her second week of heat. Any suggestions???? Only a few days left.
> 
> Thanks!


Breeding dogs is not an easy thing to do. That's why you don't see many dogs around.


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## lindseyanne (Apr 15, 2007)

i dont think that anyone asked why?why are you breeding your dogs? to make money?well i dont meen to offend anyone but jimbaliya my very first post some people got snippy with me but i didnt mind and i never got defensive because if i knew more then that person i whouldent be asking right?well any way it sounds to me like your a backyard breeder correct?well if you are wanting to make money breeding your dogs i want to inform you about something.when i started here i thought backyard breeders where great always egar to sell but then some nicefolks on here told me it wasent all its cracked up to be i.e maybe the puppy isint in optimal health ,they most likely wernt tested for genetic problems and alot of the time puppys dont recive the correct health care i just want to tell you that stay on this form and you will learn a ton!!!! i know i have you have to earn your "keep" to say in a since but when people start warming up to you its well worth it its awsome to know you have a reliable source of information.good luck!!!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

peace36 said:


> Well I think it is too bad this person just asked a question and got about 20 questions fired back at him. Maybe it would have been nicer to nicely tell the person what you know about responsible breeding and maybe answer the original question.
> 
> At least the person is still willing to stay on the forum anyway as it is a very dog smart forum and pretty fun too.


Those questions are asked so we don't jump on someone who HAS done some testing, it is also done to make the person asking about breeding think about HOW prepared they really are to breed a dog in a responsible manner.


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## peace36 (Jan 29, 2007)

Snowshoe said:


> Peace, sometimes you have to ask questions to make sure you're giving the correct advice.
> 
> Personally, I'm glad that all of the questions were asked, and that no one was like, "Oh, yes! Go and breed! Can I have a puppy???"
> 
> ...



Yes, I see your point. It just it seemed he/she was bombarded with all the same info and I still am not sure anyone even ansewered his original question.

I personally do not see why anyone (other that the people with a passion for keeping a breed up to standard going) would want to breed. A nice person anyway. If all you want is some free puppies well the cost you spend in vet bills they do not end up free and if it is done to make money the only way I hear you can make any is if you have a puppy mill going on and that is just horrible not something a nice person with a conscience would do.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

peace36 said:


> It just it seemed he/she was bombarded with all the same info and I still am not sure anyone even ansewered his original question.


The original question was, "*Dog's in heat. When do I introduce the male?"*

The unanimous answer was, "Not until you know what you're doing." 

It seems that even those who think the responses were harsh are not disagreeing with the wisdom of the advice.

Please: Anyone who has a different answer to the original question - let's hear it.

I'm starting a post on the new member forum about how we treat new members and would welcome any opinions or suggestions there.


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## drfong (May 24, 2006)

to the OP, I really hope you hang out some. There are lots of great people here. You did come in on a hot topic. Actually this has been really calm compared to many others that have come before. It's a hot button topic and will always bring the same result. I would hope you noticed what you got from most was don't breed now, not don't ever breed. (a few said just get her spayed, but most just want to make sure you get all the info you need.) They do that by asking you questions, so you know what things you need to find out to be ready. If you can come hear and answer all these, you'll be ready. There are some that don't want anyone to breed, but most here appreciate breeders when they do everything right. I don't know if you ever answered ( or were directly asked ) why you wanted to breed these dogs. I'm not asking so I can jump up and down on your answer just want to know. 
Welcome to the forum.


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## sobreeze (Oct 31, 2006)

OP you have been given some great advice . Even though it maybe hard to hear sometimes. All the folks on here care for the health and happyness of dogs and all animals . 
All of us have heard things we did not want to hear but we are learning from each other . Dont let your feelings get in the way of takeing the best care of your dogs as I know you love them very much and would not let anything bad happen. So stay around and learn the worst is over .


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