# Samoyeds - outside dogs?



## enzuuu (Apr 17, 2015)

So, I'm having a bit of a dispute with my breeder over Samoyed being an outside dog. Before even getting a Samoyed puppy, I read that since Samoyed love people, they don't respond well being left outside alone and want to be with family most of all. Also, generally if given enough exercise, can live in apartments. This is a big no-no for my breeder who keeps pushing me to keep my puppy outside and it's okay for a sammy to stay outside day and night with contact with the family during evenings only.

I do live in a house at the moment with a big back yard, but I cannot imagine leaving my baby there alone. What I've gathered during those precious months with her is that she is not an outside dog and never will be. I have left her alone in the yard couple of times and she just sits there, alone and miserable. 

I'm worried and would like some honest opinion from people since I plan to move to an apartment soon. I'd just like to add that me and my partner are very active when it comes to our puppy - she goes to school 2 times a week, we take short hikes every weekend (she is too young for long hikes) and romp around in the yard with her every day several times. Long walks daily isn't an issue either since we did those even before puppy.

It just bothers me to no end that I'm being pushed to keep my dog outside and nagged upon when planning to move to an apartment with a Samoyed. I feel like an incompetent fool although in my heart I know I'm doing the right thing for my pup. 

Honestly, so far I haven't told my breeder that Luna sleeps in the doggie-crate during nights. She would flip out. But it has been an essential tool for her to learn to control her bladder and now it's her safe place where she can peacefully sleep without being bothered by the cat. But that's another topic.

What do you think? Am I a bad person for wanting my dog close to me? Not wanting to raise an outside dog from a Samoyed? Because right now, Luna would even share her crate with me if it would mean that we could be together.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Since you already have the dog and are going to be moving into an apartment, I would not be keeping the dog outside. Why would you want her to get used to being an outdoor dog when she will soon not have a yard to stay in?

I will keep all my pet dogs inside while I am away. I feel that it is safer. They can go outside and play while I'm home and can keep an eye on them.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Just do what you want. I don't see the point in having outside dogs anyway - I get dogs so that they will hang out with me in the house. I don't get dogs to be lawn ornaments. Some dogs do enjoy being outside while their owners are gone, and I know huskies who would rather stay outside in 10deg weather than come in, because they are independent dogs and love the cold. But your dog won't be less happy indoors even if he would enjoy spending some time outside. If you're going to be in an apartment without a yard, then get him used to being inside sooner rather than later.

ETA: The husky person also has super secure dog runs outside. Without something like that I wouldn't feel safe leaving my dog outside even if he enjoyed it.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

I'm not find of any breed being a fully outside dog imo. Mine are normally outside in the summer from 2pm until 8pm but from 5 on I'm out with them.

That being said, the breed can be an outside breed however its your dog do what you want with it. I know 3 Samoyed breeders and they keep all their dogs inside. I'm the winter time they love being outside like huskies but yeah they do fine inside. Would be stupid to get her use top being outside and then make her an inside dog, makes house breaking a nightmare!


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## enzuuu (Apr 17, 2015)

Laurelin said:


> Since you already have the dog and are going to be moving into an apartment, I would not be keeping the dog outside. Why would you want her to get used to being an outdoor dog when she will soon not have a yard to stay in?
> 
> I will keep all my pet dogs inside while I am away. I feel that it is safer. They can go outside and play while I'm home and can keep an eye on them.



I agree on that, she spends most of her time inside with me anyway. Thing is that the breeder doesn't think Samoyed can live without a yard and therefore I'm being tagged as an awful person to even consider moving to an apartment. Last thing I want to do is make my dog uncomfortable or miserable and she just about manages to make me feel like I do.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

enzuuu said:


> I agree on that, she spends most of her time inside with me anyway. Thing is that the breeder doesn't think Samoyed can live without a yard and therefore I'm being tagged as an awful person to even consider moving to an apartment. Last thing I want to do is make my dog uncomfortable or miserable and she just about manages to make me feel like I do.


There are people who think no dogs should live without a yard and won't adopt shelter dogs to anyone without a fully fenced in yard. I just ignore them. 

My dog has 10 acres, but it's not fenced and he's not off leash reliable, so he has to be on a long line. So he has a huge yard, but it's not like he has any more access to his yard than he would to a park or something. But I take him out and walk him every day and he gets plenty of exercise. Even if I had a yard he would just sit and want to come in anyway, which is what most dogs do. The yard isn't the important part. The important part is how much work the owner is willing to do. I know people with yards who never walk their dogs - do you think the dog is really getting any exercise sitting in his yard? Thinking a yard is super important is just silly.

Don't let your breeder make you feel bad. Sounds like she's just not a very reasonable person.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Even aside from the issue of moving into an apartment and all the additional work you'd have to do to transition an outside dog into an inside dog (particularly potty training and getting a dog used to people outside the residence, being quite indoors etc); I wouldn't want any PUPPY outside unattended in a yard. 
There are simply too many dangers in the average yard. In urban and suburban areas, there are risks of dog theft or being tossed dangerous treats from passersby or taunted by kids, or eating dangerous plants or just too much mulch or sticks, or being exposed to storms/inclimate weather, or chance of escape and being hit by a car. etc
In a rural area with acreage, there also comes risks like wild animals (sometimes these are in urban areas too!), farmers who will shoot dogs that get loose and bother livestock (and this is often legal btw), free roaming dogs that can jump fences right into your yard area, and the same natural risks from storms plants etc.

A well built outdoor kennel can reduce a lot of the risks but even then, a puppy can dig and bark and learn bad habits and not learn potty training and more. It also reduces the bonding time with humans which is highly useful for training and important for a dog's mental health. It IS possible to have an outside dog but in your case, I see pretty much zero benefits and dozens of negatives. 

A crate is a safety thing for puppies- no chance of them eating something dangerous. It is a useful item to have in your future "toolbox" for travel, competition/sports, vet care/illness recovery, kennelling for vacation, needing to be secured in a multi-dog household etc. It doesn't need to be a forever thing but it does have a lot of handy uses to make life safer and easier for both human and dog.



enzuuu said:


> I agree on that, she spends most of her time inside with me anyway. Thing is that the breeder doesn't think Samoyed can live without a yard and therefore I'm being tagged as an awful person to even consider moving to an apartment. Last thing I want to do is make my dog uncomfortable or miserable and she just about manages to make me feel like I do.


 IMO, yards are useful but not required by any means. Yards are great when its raining and I can open the door and let the dogs run out to potty and I don't even need to put shoes on or get rained on. They are great for letting my two dogs play freely together. But leashed walks, training classes, dog parks for those dogs that are suited to them, play dates, long lines etc make up the bulk of most dog's real exercise and mental stimulation.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I hate people who think yards themselves do something for dogs.

I used to live in Northeastern PA. Everyone has a yard and everyone puts their dog in the yard as opposed to walking them. I was regarded as a freak for walking my dog. I could walk him an hour and never see another dog being walked. Now I live in Arlington, VA, in a highrise apartment. Everyone walks their dog because they have to. If I go more than 2 minutes during a walk without seeing another dog, I start to wonder if there's a tornado warning or something. The dogs in NEPA were, in general, fat, poorly trained and reactive. The dogs in ARL are much more in shape, well trained and generally nonreactive. Do you really think dogs are different in ARL as opposed to NEPA? Of course not! Dogs are dogs. It's just that you can't get away with throwing your dog out back while you watch TV when you live on the 15th floor of an apartment building. I've watched newly adopted dogs go from pulling and freaking out to walking and staying calm, it's really neat to see.

The fact of the matter is, I would be far more inclined to adopt a dog to an apartment dweller as opposed to a suburbanite. I know that apartment dweller is going to have to walk the dog, thus training it, exercising it and socializing it. The suburbanite might do all those things, too, but they have the option not to. And people can be really lazy. (Please, suburban and rural posters, I'm not judging/insulting you guys. I'm just speaking in generalities.)


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

didn't hurt my Sammy-cross either way... He loved to be an indoor dog and he loved being an outdoor door in a kennel laying next to his huge dog house sleeping covered all night in the falling snow... He was a seasoned military dog,,, lived in houses with yards, lived in apartments with no yards, lived out in the woods camping for 8 months with no fencing to contain him. He went to go live with my Mom in her townhome with no fenced yard while I was stationed in Korea for a year... He is the one dog that had no containment or fenced boundaries when we moved to our farm the one dog that never left the property in his life... Sammies are pretty cool they don't need a lot as they are an intelligent loyal willing breed to pick things up quickly,, and they always give 200% back... always a happy dog in any situation being a close part of their lives on a personal level


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

I don't understand _why _she wants the dog to be an outside dog? What benefits would it have for your dog? 80% of the time, when I'm not interacting with my dog he's just laying somewhere anyways, even if he's in the backyard.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I'm just trying to figure out what kind of breeder recommends keeping dogs outside all the time...


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Kayota said:


> I'm just trying to figure out what kind of breeder recommends keeping dogs outside all the time...


A lousy one...Or one that's a whackjob...

Hey OP, do you have a link to your breeder's website? 10 to 1 it's a BYB...


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

spotted nikes said:


> A lousy one...Or one that's a whackjob...
> 
> Hey OP, do you have a link to your breeder's website? 10 to 1 it's a BYB...



I am not sure if it applies to samoyeds 

But there are a lot of GOOD AND GREAT breeders of true working and hunting dogs that would look at you like you had four heads if you suggested that you wanted to buy a puppy and keep it inside..... 

My Grandfather was a GREAT breeder... And aside from his one buddy dog, he always had one, none of his bird dogs or cow dogs ever came inside. And his Buddy had very specific places it was allowed to go...

I have owned hunting dogs that never stepped in a house in their lives.....

As I said at the beginning, I do not see how that applies to a breeder selling pet Samoyeds...... And I do not think it would be safe in the summer where I live..... That being said, I am quite confident Samoyeds that lived and worked in their native country lived outdoors 100 percent of the time. 

You may well be correct about this particular breeder...


But without knowing the facts about this breeder (maybe they are a traditionalist that breeds mushing Samoyeds, there are a few of those left around.) And in general terms.....

This statement is way way out of turn. 


> A lousy one...Or one that's a whackjob...


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I am not sure if it applies to samoyeds
> 
> But there are a lot of GOOD AND GREAT breeders of true working and hunting dogs that would look at you like you had four heads if you suggested that you wanted to buy a puppy and keep it inside.....
> 
> ...


But _why_? What is the reasoning for keeping a dog outside? I don't understand how it would be better for it?


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## Losech (Apr 5, 2011)

I agree JohnnyBandit. Just because a breeder recommends someone keep their dog outside doesn't automatically make them bad. My (West Siberian) Laika's breeder keeps his dogs outside and suggests others with Laika do that too. My pup's breeder is far from a bad person, a great man in fact, and if it weren't for him there would be no Laika in the U.S. Laika are traditionally kept outside in Siberia and that is how many people world-wide keep their Laika. But many keep them inside as well, and neither are wrong for how they care for their dogs. 

enzuuu I think it's a bit funny that your breeder is giving you flack for wanting to take your pup inside since most of the time it's people who keep their dogs outside who catch heck.
In the end it's your dog, your decision. You are not a terrible person for keeping YOUR dog where YOU choose.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

chimunga said:


> But _why_? What is the reasoning for keeping a dog outside? I don't understand how it would be better for it?


Well, to start with most hunting kennels have a lot more dogs than most people are going to be able to reasonably keep in their house -

and because most of the hunting breeds, or at least a lot of them, are pretty big on dog friendliness since they hunt in packs, so they're not suffering from a lack of companionship. And because they're often working, they're not exactly bored.

It's keeping them for a different reason, in the way that doesn't hurt the dogs, but is radically different than pets. 

And a lot of the people who keep those hunting kennels don't usually sell to "Pet people" anyway because what they're producing isn't what people who want a housepet want ANYWAY, because they're being bred for working. 

Then there are LGD where they're being kept to guard livestock, and their primary attachment is to the livestock that they live with - and NEEDS to be to them, not people.

Not saying a Sammy bought by a pet owner needs to be outside or that I'd keep my pets outdoors, but there are ways to keep dogs besides as pets, and it's not exactly bad for the dog. They do serve other functions with people, though less now than in the past.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

chimunga said:


> But _why_? What is the reasoning for keeping a dog outside? I don't understand how it would be better for it?


I am not saying it is better for a single Samoyed that is a pet.....


But do you want a dozen working line German Shorthaired Pointers and a Half Dozen Catahoulas in your house? 

OR in my case...... 6-9 hounds and curs and two pit bull catch dogs in the house? In this case you would have a blood bath...


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## chimunga (Aug 29, 2014)

CptJack said:


> Well, to start with most hunting kennels have a lot more dogs than most people are going to be able to reasonably keep in their house -
> 
> and because most of the hunting breeds, or at least a lot of them, are pretty big on dog friendliness since they hunt in packs, so they're not suffering from a lack of companionship. And because they're often working, they're not exactly bored.
> 
> ...


Okay. That makes sense. It still seems odd to me, but I've never had a dog that functions as anything other than a pet.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I am not saying it is better for a single Samoyed that is a pet.....
> 
> 
> But do you want a dozen working line German Shorthaired Pointers and a Half Dozen Catahoulas in your house?
> ...


nope, no i do not


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

so is it better for the dog to keep them inside that wants to be outside ?


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> ..... That being said, I am quite confident Samoyeds that lived and worked in their native country lived outdoors 100 percent of the time.


Nope. Samoyeds are the rare exception among this type of working dog in that they did come inside at night. They would come into the chooms (kind of cross between hut and teepee) of the Samoyed people at night, and mingled among the people and children helping everybody stay warm. 

I knew a breeder with Siberians and Samoyeds, and the Sibes were perfectly content outside as long as they have their doggy companions but the Samoyeds really are not happy unless they can be with the people. They truly are more people oriented than the other northern breeds. Their history is also a big reason that they are known to be so good with kids.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

CptJack said:


> and because most of the hunting breeds, or at least a lot of them, are pretty big on dog friendliness since they hunt in packs, so they're not suffering from a lack of companionship. And because they're often working, they're not exactly bored.
> 
> 
> .


This... Heavily..... With hounds and curs that hunt in packs.... You want them bonded to each other.... Not you.....

I kept my hounds that got along in a large communal pen.... could even feed them out of a trough. 

Some of my curs I could put int there.... Some I could not.... Curs can be a bit more fiesty.....

Game bred Pit bull Catch dogs.... Had their own runs..... They were not going to get along with anyone....

Granddaddy always had kennel runs and a yard.... Dogs typically had their own kennel run, but got let out daily multiple times to run in the dog yard as a group. 

Working dogs are not pets..... It does not mean the owners do not care or even love them..... But a pet dog is a very different animal.

And it helps to keep as much personal emotional distance as you can..... Because when you turn hounds loose, it may be the last time you see them..... And you have to understand that when you hunt with dogs..... things happened....


I got snockered drunk with a lifelong friend in January..... He had a day no one ever wants.... His hog dogs got on a really really bad hog.... He lost two great bay dogs and his catch dog.... We killed a 1.75 of Bombay, cried and he swore he was done hunting with dogs. and he snored on my couch till past noon the next day..... 

But right now he has three new plott puppies he bought from a guy that bear hunts and has a deposit on a pit puppy..... 

It goes with the territory.....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

samshine said:


> Nope. Samoyeds are the rare exception among this type of working dog in that they did come inside at night. They would come into the chooms (kind of cross between hut and teepee) of the Samoyed people at night, and mingled among the people and children helping everybody stay warm.
> 
> I knew a breeder with Siberians and Samoyeds, and the Sibes were perfectly content outside as long as they have their doggy companions but the Samoyeds really are not happy unless they can be with the people. They truly are more people oriented than the other northern breeds. Their history is also a big reason that they are known to be so good with kids.


Then I stand corrected on Samoyeds.... But I find it odd there would be enough room in a small hut for a team of large dogs.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

chimunga said:


> Okay. That makes sense. It still seems odd to me, but I've never had a dog that functions as anything other than a pet.


Just because it is odd to you..... And does not fit into the role in which dogs fit into your life. Does not make it wrong.... 


Also keep in mind, working dogs and hunting dogs are taught commands they need to know..... They do not learn most of the obedience commands and "manners" a typical pet has......


You do not teach hunting dogs to sit, stay, down, etc.... Less is better with them....


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

Hi Enzuuu. I've had Samoyeds for 30 years, and breed the occasional litter. The very best dogs in my opinion. 

As I mentioned above, Samoyeds are more people oriented than other northern breeds, and really don't make good outdoor dogs. I do know Samoyed breeders who keep their dogs mostly outside, but that is because they have a lot of dogs. Almost all of them have the dogs take turns being inside and give them as much indoor time as possible. All the breeders that I know with just a few dogs keep them mainly indoors, at least when they are home. 

I wonder how many dogs your breeder has? If they have a lot, that may color their thinking. When you only have one dog, keeping a Samoyeds outside alone is just cruel. They are social animals. 

Rachel


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Then I stand corrected on Samoyeds.... But I find it odd there would be enough room in a small hut for a team of large dogs.


 The chooms are not all that small. The impression I have is that each family unit might have 3-5 dogs in it. Plus, packing them in means keeping warm in one of the coldest environments that people have inhabited.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

I can see the benefit of having a dog in bed with you in cold climates....

I do not let the dogs in bed with me at home.... I have let dogs sleep on and with me camping.



samshine said:


> The chooms are not all that small. The impression I have is that each family unit might have 3-5 dogs in it. Plus, packing them in means keeping warm in one of the coldest environments that people have inhabited.


That makes sense


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Then I stand corrected on Samoyeds.... But I find it odd there would be enough room in a small hut for a team of large dogs.


Well, let's remember: They're not primarily mushing dogs. They were herders. You don't need a team of a dozen of those ;-)


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

CptJack said:


> Well, let's remember: They're not primarily mushing dogs. They were herders. You don't need a team of a dozen of those ;-)


Yes I know they are in a way herders.... I have seen a few in herding trials....They can earn akc herding titles....

I think they need to start a reindeer class


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## enzuuu (Apr 17, 2015)

samshine said:


> Hi Enzuuu. I've had Samoyeds for 30 years, and breed the occasional litter. The very best dogs in my opinion.
> 
> As I mentioned above, Samoyeds are more people oriented than other northern breeds, and really don't make good outdoor dogs. I do know Samoyed breeders who keep their dogs mostly outside, but that is because they have a lot of dogs. Almost all of them have the dogs take turns being inside and give them as much indoor time as possible. All the breeders that I know with just a few dogs keep them mainly indoors, at least when they are home.
> 
> ...



Thank you! Yes, that's what I believe as well. She does have several dogs and I get where she is coming from, I just wish she would see that her way is not the only right way to raise a dog and a single dog at that. Her main excuse for keeping a pup outside was that she will then grow a thicker and more beautiful fur, which is just strange.


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## enzuuu (Apr 17, 2015)

spotted nikes said:


> A lousy one...Or one that's a whackjob...
> 
> Hey OP, do you have a link to your breeder's website? 10 to 1 it's a BYB...


Hey! I'd rather not say, I don't want to harm anyone's reputation. She is a respected breeder in her community and own several dogs, all of them living outside. I understand her point of view but she doesn't understand mine. What made me angry was that she wants me to keep my 5 month pup outside. I would never in a million years, even if I didn't plan to move, do that. There really is no point on arguing with her either, she just keeps saying over and over again how a Sammy is an outside dog, it's unhealthy to keep them inside and they need the yard to develop etc etc The excuses are so stupid that I just don't know how to respond anymore.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

One thing to consider in thinking about inside vs outside dogs is not just breed but individual dog's temperament, whether the dog is working or has a specific activity to do outside, the safety of the outside location and how active the owner is with the dog. There are plenty of very active dogs, even of Northern breeds and working breeds etc, that live quite happily inside with active owners as well as many dogs who are bored to death outside because someone thinks that _just_ because a dog has a thick coat then they automatically have to live outside all the time regardless of activity level and time spent with owner. 

For example, one of my friends used to have a horse farm and on the farm, 3 outdoor dogs (who slept inside the barn at night and when no one was on property for their safety but they were not inside a house at all). Beagle/Lab and two border collies. They ran all day. When she sold the farm, they transitioned to being house dogs with a tiny courtyard and long leashed walks. They were fine. Now the BC's live with her mom in a condo with not even a courtyard and are just fine. 

Another friend has a Great Pyr. During the winter, he will spend hours and hours outside but he sleeps indoors and is indoors during her workday because she lives in suburbia and he doesn't have a big flock of sheep to watch over and roam around. He is quite content but there's no reason to put him at risk of wandering or having issues with the neighbors.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I have inside dogs and I have outside dogs. One outside dog no matter what will not come in. Another outside dog will come in counter surf, lick the cat, and then go to the back door. Another outside dog will come in about 3 pm, take a nap till 10 pm and then wants to be outside the rest of the time. If I lived in suburbs this arrangement would be different. I probably would not have outside dogs. The risks of theft, poisoning, and neighbors complaining would be at the top of the list of why I would not keep a dog outside. Plus if in the future, my plans were to be in an apartment, I would want the dog used to being inside. Dogs seems to be the most comfortable to what they are used to doing. Some dog owners are so set in their way that they often come blind and hard of hearing to any other way of dog ownership.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm not in favor of the average dog living life outdoors. I dont think guardian breeds or farm dogs are the average dog. I've seen people with wonderful set ups for their outside dogs & thats okay by me.

If this breeder wanted her puppies to be outside dogs & the OP didn't want her pup to be outside, she (breeder) shouldn't have sold her a puppy.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I am not sure if it applies to samoyeds
> 
> But there are a lot of GOOD AND GREAT breeders of true working and hunting dogs that would look at you like you had four heads if you suggested that you wanted to buy a puppy and keep it inside.....
> 
> ...


We're not talking about hunting dogs, or a sled dog team or anything like that...we're talking about a breeder telling the owner that they need to keep their PET Samoyed outdoors...Any breeder that insists the owner of a single pet keep them outdoors is a whackjob IMO. You're entitled to your own opinion if you think the OP's breeder is being reasonable.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

enzuuu said:


> Hey! I'd rather not say, I don't want to harm anyone's reputation. She is a respected breeder in her community and own several dogs, all of them living outside. I understand her point of view but she doesn't understand mine. What made me angry was that she wants me to keep my 5 month pup outside. I would never in a million years, even if I didn't plan to move, do that. There really is no point on arguing with her either, she just keeps saying over and over again how a Sammy is an outside dog, it's unhealthy to keep them inside and they need the yard to develop etc etc The excuses are so stupid that I just don't know how to respond anymore.


It's your dog, so do what you want. It would not be up for discussion, if I were in your situation. I had a Sammie growing up, and she stayed inside with us, but had access to a doggie door and fenced yard. She did like to go out in the snow and try and "bounce" on top of the snow when she heard mice, chipmunks or whatever burrows under snow. And she would stay out longer than we kids would, but she did come in often on her own, and would sleep in bed with me.


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