# When is lack of grooming abuse?



## FSM (Jul 13, 2010)

We have a friend who did a favor for a friend who was going to abandon or drop off at a shelter her dogs since her new fiance said either 'he or the dogs must go'.

Well, after almost three months, she broke up with the guy and even though the new owner LOVed the dogs dearly, she gave them back to the original owner.
Then all heck broke loose......

After the original owner came and picked them up with overflowing praise and thanks to the friend who took them in, and said they looked beautiful due to my friends hand scissor trimming. She later called back and said that the dogs were abused.... because they weren't groomed during the time and while the friend loved them as their own.

I saw the dogs just before they were returned to the original owner and they looked fantastic to me? Full of energy and absolutely loving the woman who loved them during their stay in their home.

Seems that the groomer who used to groom them monthly is the one who said they were abused due to their lack of professional grooming. A checkup at the vet said they were healthy and disease free.

My friend was also accused of (god forbid) feeding them human food whom the groomer said would end their live prematurely.

My friend had never had a fru-fru dog like these shitsu or lhasa dogs.

This seems to be a case of good will going before good aforementioned knowledge and a bankroll needed to care for the dogs... or is this just a case of a groomer who was peeved to lose a longtime monthly fee to groom?


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## Thracian (Dec 24, 2008)

It's hard to be definitive since there are no pics. 

However, I am more inclined to think that a woman who would give away her three dogs because of an ultimatim is likely making the scenario worse than it is. Honestly, I wouldn't have given the dogs back if I were your friend. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "hand scissor trimming." Is your friend a groomer? I know several people on this forum groom their own dogs, and they are certainly not abused. Were they brushed in the three months? If not, that could lead to painful matting.

An occasional treat of human food will not end a dog's life prematurely (as long as it's not something that is toxic to dogs). A steady diet of it that causes a dog to gain weight will cause physical issues in the dog.

I'm inclined to side with your friend but can't say definitively without pics.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

To me:

When the dog's health or well-being is hindered.

For example, extreme matting to where the dog has to lose his coat (Wally went through this), or if his nails are so long that they actually hurt the dog when he walks.

If they are happy and healthy and their coats and nails are in good shape - no abuse. Many dogs wish they could be "abused" by being happy and cared for with a clean bill of health from their vets.

As far as "human food" that's a very generic description. If I feed Wally a grilled hamburger that's "human food" (as would raw hamburger if dog food has to come from a bag or can from a dog food company). There's a difference between feeding tons of crackers and greasy food and letting him lick a tablespoon of raw sugar and giving him raw chicken wings, pureed veggies, and mashed potatoes and a corner of grilled steak.


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## Kawgirl (Feb 1, 2009)

Based on the information provided I see no way to tell if the dogs were neglected. But I will comment this, did she not go and visit the dogs to check on them? If she did go and visit them, then she should have expressed any concerns at that time. She could have offered to pay to groom them if she saw that they needed it. She could have asked and made suggestions about diet.. If she did not check on them...well, I can't even imagine that.


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## FSM (Jul 13, 2010)

Well,, the original owner did in fact visit them as often as the friend could allow and Never did the original owner say anything about their health other than they were fantastic when she visited then during the months.
They were brushed and bathed and loved for months.... but without grooming.

At the end, it seemed that the groomer was peeved that the original owner didn't bring them to her regardless, or something like that.

So, what it come down to in the end is whether or not Schitzo or llaso dogs need to be groomed by a money groomer or not, to be healthy or not?


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

In the back of my mind, I thought maybe the groomer was either upset or assumed that "if I don't see them anymore, they must be getting NO grooming at all".

BTW, I wouldn't say the dogs are getting no grooming. If they are getting brushed and bathed, that's grooming, imo. 

Only way I'd say they need to be groomed by a pro groomer to be healthy is if there's things the owners don't/can't do (or do correctly) but the dogs need done, like nail trimming or teeth cleaning, etc.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Lack of professional grooming is not abuse. Lack of grooming is abuse when it leads to an unhealthy or painful dog.

Sounds like the original owner was happy until the groomer got involved, maybe the groomer felt like her wallet was being abused by the lack of monthly professional grooming.


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## traceymc (Jul 14, 2010)

No, a Shih Tzu, Llasa or any breed of dog does NOT have to be groomed proffessionally to be deemed healthy. I groom one of my Shih Tzu myself, he has no matts, is healthy and happy. I'm not a groomer, his cut isn't perfect (i'm still learning) and I get positive comments from strangers, have even been offered cash to do otheres dogs the same (which I refused, I can only manage Ty because he falls asleep when I;m clipping him LOL)


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

Lack of grooming is considered abuse in the state's eyes when the owner has received a notice to comply and they don't. I go through this all the time. Once the dog has been groomed, even when severely matted, the owner has in fact taken notice to the issue and fixed it. It's a fine line.


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## peznite (Oct 21, 2009)

How did furry breeds of dogs back thousands of years ago deal with getting matted and getting poop mats in the wild? I am guessing 99% of dog breeds we see today are only from within the last 100-200 years?


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

To me 'abuse' or 'neglect' steps in when a dog comes to the groomer (or vet) with pelted coats, goopy eyes, infected ears, etc...If an owner doesn't want to get his long coated dog groomed, he should have opted for a short haired dog, plain and simple. Unfortunately people don't all think that way, so the dogs suffer. And to me, it makes no difference 'where' a dog is groomed, so much as "IS" he groomed? You don't have to be a 'professional' to groom your own dog...will he look ready to step into the ring at Westminster? Probably not, but there is certainly nothing wrong with an owner taking grooming into his own hands as long as he knows how to handle his grooming equipment! 

That said, it's hard to tell if there was actually anything 'wrong' with what the other person was doing with the dogs while in her care, because what you have said is basically 'he said, she said'...show us some pics of the dogs before they headed to the groomer, and "maybe" we can assess whether or not they were abused...my guess is that we would not see anything wrong with them.


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## Jetta (Jul 23, 2010)

It sounds to me like a certain groomed is very much overstating her own importance and is judging on issues she simply isn't going to be qualified to comment on.

I've never had my two proffesionaly groomed and though they don't have coats that need trimming our sheltie/ chihuahua cross has a full thick sheltie coat and you could make a jumper with the amount that comes out when we brush him and we do at least once a week. We clip their nails bath and condition and blow dry them. They're very well cared for and just because I don't pay anybody else to it certainly does not mean they're abused.

As for food even my vet has advised some human foods for our Papillon when she needed extra weight and all through her pregnancy we supplemented her diet with fish and chicken, the week after she had her litter she had bacon every day because she's small. There is nothing wrong with giving your dog real food it's just like anything else you need to be sensible about it. A can of oily fish (not a fish that's high in mercury) is actualy excellent for a dogs coat


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## LDMomma (Jul 19, 2010)

It's not abusive to groom your dogs at home. To me, it sounds like the groomer just didn't want to lose the business. And honestly, how much can the original owner really care if she was willing to give them up in the first place? Did she really expect that someone else would just provide for her dogs exactly the way she did until she decided to collect them later? She should be thankful the friend took them in and cared for them. If they hadn't the dogs could be gone forever.


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## Jetta (Jul 23, 2010)

LDMomma said:


> It's not abusive to groom your dogs at home. To me, it sounds like the groomer just didn't want to lose the business. And honestly, how much can the original owner really care if she was willing to give them up in the first place? Did she really expect that someone else would just provide for her dogs exactly the way she did until she decided to collect them later? She should be thankful the friend took them in and cared for them. If they hadn't the dogs could be gone forever.


 And even more grateful that she let her have them back.


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