# Does a puppy pee to annoy you?



## Carulyta (Dec 9, 2011)

OK, I know it sound stupid and I read a lot of the fact that a dog doesn't think that way, but mine seams to be an exception. He is a 4 months old lab. He is sweet an playful. He would eat a lot and would drink a lot if he were allowed. Now my problem is with peeing... he pees A LOT! It's not a bladder infection and he doesn't have a kidney problem, at least this is what the vet told us. I watched him carefully and he seams to do this whenever something is not going like he wants it to go. For example if I'm eating anything and I'm not giving him a taste he will go and pee. Same goes with toys and attention. It doesn't matter if he just peed five minutes ago, if we are not complying to his demands ( and we never do! ) he will go and pee AGAIN! Got any advice? i'm starting to think he is doing it on purpose and not because he is still a baby.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

...No. He's a baby! He is not trying to annoy you. He doesn't have any bladder control, and he is not peeing on purpose. Maybe he pees when he is upset, but it's not directed at you. He's peeing because he's not housebroken.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

The way I read it is that he is just not housebroken as he is too young to be yet.  I would keep him outside longer to go potty and maybe more potty trips. I have the same issue with a 9 month old pup who was crated and never attempted to be potty trained.  Mine also drinks water like there is no tomorrow ; and this justifies more potty breaks. 

Just a thought ... doesn't mean I am correct!


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Not a chance.

At 4 months he's not housebroken. When a healthy dog pees in your house, it's because he believes your floor is his toilet.

Doesn't matter how long it's been, dogs don't empty their bladders -- they hold back a reserve in case an opportunity for marking comes along later. Even pups who haven't started marking yet hold back. Maybe he pees when he's unhappy, but once he's housebroken he'll go to the back door so he can go outside to pee.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree with everyone that dogs do not pee out of spite or to annoy you.

However, Labs and some other dogs will pee when upset or unhappy, but it's not directed at you. (As hamandeggs said), and as DustyCrockett said, he'll go outside [and pout ] when he's housebroken... 

On the other hand, a dog that pees when upset, even housebroken, may pee in inappropriate locations outside, on potted plants, on the house, on a swingset....etc.


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## Ice222 (Nov 21, 2011)

Puppy pee doesn't annoy me, I have a 10 week old puppy so I've had plenty of puppy accidents already. Honestly I don't think puppies have no control, sometimes I think he does it just because he's upset or bored, but not out of spite. I'm hoping is that he'll grow out of it but, considering that he is a Dachshund which are supposedly notoriusly hard to housebreak, I'm already more than happy that he doesn't pee ON me or in his crate


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Ice222 said:


> ...considering that he is a Dachshund which are supposedly notoriusly hard to housebreak...


that right there is what you call a "self-fulfilling prophesy" -- how quickly they housebreak is a function of the diligence of the owner

at 10 weeks, they pee when their bladder says "pee" and it doesn't give them much notice


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## Ice222 (Nov 21, 2011)

DustyCrockett said:


> that right there is what you call a "self-fulfilling prophesy" -- how quickly they housebreak is a function of the diligence of the owner
> 
> at 10 weeks, they pee when their bladder says "pee" and it doesn't give them much notice


That right there is called being pretentious. So tell me, how exactly is it self-fulfilling? It's only self-fulfilling if I give up on toilet training due to hearing that little tidbit regarding dachshunds. He's only 10 weeks old so he's far from being toilet trained even if he was trained in perfect conditions by the most dedicated and experienced trainer possible. I just meant that I don't think he's doing very badly at all for a young pup, especially when the breed is given a bad name for it.

My goal is to get him fully housebroken, which I am making every effort to do, including waking up in the ams and taking him out. When I'm not at work, he gets taken outside every time he's let out from his crate and every time before he gets crated again. which ends up averaging more than once an hour. Considering that I do work 4 days a week, during which he gets confined to a small puppy-proofed bathroom, I am mentally prepared to accept it if he doesn't ever end up being fully house-trained despite my efforts - since the confinement during the day forces him to toilet inside at some point, and is therefore detrimental to his learning in housebreaking. Having realistic expectations from my own less than ideal circumstances does not mean I'll stop trying and my level of diligence has little to nothing to do with the breed.

Of course I don't expect full control and understanding of what we want when they're that young, I get that, I just don't agree with the assumption that they have ZERO control and that every time they pee is because they NEED to. Most of the time when my pup accidentally pees inside it's only a few drops, not the full load, whereas when he actually needs to pee it's a lot more substantial. When he does choose to pee inside, it seems to be during times when i stop playing with him (eg. for about 15 seconds when he bites too hard) basically when he decides I'm no longer interesting and wanders off to pee somewhere.

Now, I'm not saying that I'm definitely right, they could just be holding a reserve for marking as you said, but until I see any information that's actually convincing, and not just because you say so. I simply prefer to trust my own observation. To me it better explains the difference in the volume of pee unloaded. Plus I personally believe that it is better to assume that all behaviors is attributed to a subject's/dog conscious choice, and therefore changeable and shape-able, rather than to assume it's something biological and fixed.

Even though I think he has some control of his bladder, I by no means blame him for accidents, since he needs to get the idea that peeing outside is what I want, and what gets rewarded.Until he has fully grasped the concept I am trying to teach, he is not to blame for any accidents. My pup is improving, although slowly.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I have noticed in the past with some of my pups that they tend to pee more after we stop playing. The playing gets things moving ...  I have one 5 year old dog that I thought would NEVER get house broken. He was just a late bloomer. He still had a few accidents after he was a year old. I am very good at housebreaking too; if I may boast a little. Sometimes, IMO it is just the dog. 

Good luck with your endeavor!


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Ice222 said:


> That right there is called being pretentious. So tell me, how exactly is it self-fulfilling? It's only self-fulfilling if I give up on toilet training due to hearing that little tidbit regarding dachshunds. He's only 10 weeks old so he's far from being toilet trained even if he was trained in perfect conditions by the most dedicated and experienced trainer possible. I just meant that I don't think he's doing very badly at all for a young pup, especially when the breed is given a bad name for it.
> ...


Wow, having a bad day? 
"...how exactly is it self-fulfilling? It's only self-fulfilling if I give up on toilet training due to hearing that little tidbit regarding dachshunds." 
Asked and answered. I might have said "go easy" instead of "give up" but close enough. 

My intent was purely to express an opinion, based solely on personal observation; I'm not sure how the word "pretentious" applies in this context.


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## Ice222 (Nov 21, 2011)

DustyCrockett said:


> Wow, having a bad day?
> "...how exactly is it self-fulfilling? It's only self-fulfilling if I give up on toilet training due to hearing that little tidbit regarding dachshunds."
> Asked and answered. I might have said "go easy" instead of "give up" but close enough.
> 
> My intent was purely to express an opinion, based solely on personal observation; I'm not sure how the word "pretentious" applies in this context.


Right, and to express your opinion you made baseless assumption that accuses me of going easy on my pup, the only part of my post you're latching on, is that I heard that dachshunds can be hard to housebreak, if just mentioning it means it's self-fulfilling, then heck, there'd never be such a thing as a well trained pom, or a pitbull that won't bite people's face off, cause you know, everyone's heard that they're terrible !! Actually I think most responsible owners would try harder to train and work with the shortcomings of a breed, and not just give up, especially people who are on forums actually reading and trying to learn more about dogs and how to train them well.

I'm calling you pretentious because of the way you worded your opinion, being judgmental of me despite know little to nothing about me, my puppy or what training we do. Nothing to do with me having a good or a bad day. You don't like being called pretentious based on one forum post, I don't like being accused of being a lax trainer based on something I only mentioned I heard. While I don't have ideal conditions, I am not going easy on my pup, and I would train any breed the same way and have the same expectations in the same circumstances.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Ice222 said:


> Right, and to express your opinion you made baseless assumption that accuses me ...


ok I see where we miscommunicated -- no accusation was intended, no judgement, just an observation.


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## ReneeandSlayer (Dec 8, 2011)

At four months...I would lean towards it is not intentional. I know however my 11 month old will sometimes pee in a room if we leave her in it alone...seems almost like her way of trying to get out attention. With dogs its ALL about the attention..its not so much to annoy or bother people but to make them have to come see them.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

ReneeandSlayer said:


> At four months...I would lean towards it is not intentional. I know however my 11 month old will sometimes pee in a room if we leave her in it alone...seems almost like her way of trying to get out attention. With dogs its ALL about the attention..its not so much to annoy or bother people but to make them have to come see them.


If my dog did this, I would conclude that she is less than 100% housebroken. Obviously, end of the day, only a dog knows why it does what it does, but that's how I'd approach it.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Ice222, let me try to help. Very young puppies have no control. They pee when and where they need to without warning. They don't even get "signals" from their bodies that they need to go. 
Over the next weeks, they start getting those signals, gradually, (meaning SOMETIMES, but not EVERY TIME), but they don't know what it means. Next, they start making connections, "oh, when I get THAT feeling, I pee". 
Even when they understand that those signals mean they need to pee or poop, they don't have consistent control over their bladders/bowels until about 6 months of age, give or take. That is a simple fact. So, understanding what to do, doesn't mean they will always be able to do it. 
Part of learning to be potty trained is learning how LONG they can hold it. Imagine a human toddler, parents say "do you have to go potty?" Toddler says no, thinking they can hold it, but 30 seconds later, they pee their pants. It's just a matter of getting those signals, understanding those signals, and learning how long is too long!

The thing is, it's very much an ongoing process, that sometimes progresses more slowly that we'd like, or sometimes more quickly than we'd hoped! One thing that you said, about how you don't agree that they have ZERO control and every time they pee it's because they NEED to, is correct, in a way. The reason I say this is, puppies are in a constant state of change; they are always growing and developing. So, if the puppy is old enough to be weaned from mama, it does, or will very shortly have some type of control. The problem is it's NOT consistent, in fact, it's very inconsistent, but will slowly become more and more consistent.

The reason many people bring up the fact that puppies have little or no control, when giving advice, is that some people just don't know that puppies don't come with fully developed bladders under their control, and we want to educate people and let them know the process a pup goes through. Lots of people think puppies just aren't "learning" quickly enough, which is silly, because it's not only about learning, it's also about their physical development.


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## ReneeandSlayer (Dec 8, 2011)

DustyCrockett said:


> If my dog did this, I would conclude that she is less than 100% housebroken. Obviously, end of the day, only a dog knows why it does what it does, but that's how I'd approach it.


that is how we treated it at first. until she began to do it any time she is put in the laundry room..even after bathroom breaks. She will force herself to piddle.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

ReneeandSlayer said:


> that is how we treated it at first. until she began to do it any time she is put in the laundry room..even after bathroom breaks. She will force herself to piddle.


Well, that's one way of looking at it, but either way I think it leads to the conclusion that the dog is not 100% housebroken. If she was, she would not be going in the house. Projecting emotions like spite is just going to make you feel more angry at your dog in what is already a frustrating situation. It sounds to me like your dog is peeing because she's upset because she's locked in a laundry room and doesn't 100% understand that indoor peeing is frowned upon, not "forcing herself to piddle" out of spite. I would go back to housebreaking basics for a little while, watching her every minute and crating her when you can't.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

ReneeandSlayer said:


> ... She will force herself to piddle.


My theory is that she just doesn't quite understand that the floor is not a toilet. But I'm always ready to learn something new.

If I'm right, basic housebreaking technique of denying her the floor for use as a toilet will work. If you're right, and it's a play for attention, I'd think the best way to counter that strategy would be to withhold the reward she seeks, and just ignore her.

What have you tried so far?


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## ReneeandSlayer (Dec 8, 2011)

DustyCrockett said:


> My theory is that she just doesn't quite understand that the floor is not a toilet. But I'm always ready to learn something new.
> 
> If I'm right, basic housebreaking technique of denying her the floor for use as a toilet will work. If you're right, and it's a play for attention, I'd think the best way to counter that strategy would be to withhold the reward she seeks, and just ignore her.
> 
> What have you tried so far?


 So far just bringing her on more frequent bathroom breaks..once ever 40 minutes instead of every hour. But she will pee outside and 5 minutes later if she is put behind the gate she will pee..even if its only a little dribble. She has NEVER since we initially housebroke her, peed anywhere except there..and only when we have the gate up.


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## ReneeandSlayer (Dec 8, 2011)

hamandeggs said:


> Well, that's one way of looking at it, but either way I think it leads to the conclusion that the dog is not 100% housebroken. If she was, she would not be going in the house. Projecting emotions like spite is just going to make you feel more angry at your dog in what is already a frustrating situation. It sounds to me like your dog is peeing because she's upset because she's locked in a laundry room and doesn't 100% understand that indoor peeing is frowned upon, not "forcing herself to piddle" out of spite. I would go back to housebreaking basics for a little while, watching her every minute and crating her when you can't.


 I am not so much thinking of it as emotions like spite...but more as just wanting attention. I don't think she is mad at us.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Many puppies and adult dogs pee when they're anxious. They don't pee to get attention. How old is yours, Renee? Puppies that don't have full control of their bladders yet (6 months and under) often don't empty their bladders completely on the first try due to their bladders not being completely under their control yet.
If yours is over 6 months, I'd say she's stressed by being put in the laundry room, and pees because she's anxious about it. Not that that makes it acceptable, but, it happens quite often.


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## ReneeandSlayer (Dec 8, 2011)

doxiemommy said:


> Many puppies and adult dogs pee when they're anxious. They don't pee to get attention. How old is yours, Renee? Puppies that don't have full control of their bladders yet (6 months and under) often don't empty their bladders completely on the first try due to their bladders not being completely under their control yet.
> If yours is over 6 months, I'd say she's stressed by being put in the laundry room, and pees because she's anxious about it. Not that that makes it acceptable, but, it happens quite often.


 She is 11 months...anxiety would make some sense..she is a timid dog.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Renee, if it is due to anxiety, then it's really not a house training issue. The issue isn't that she doesn't understand where to potty, and to try to hold it and all that, the issue is that she _loses_ control when she's anxious.

In this case, the way to deal with it would be to always make sure she pees before going to her laundry room area (it might not get rid of the anxiety pee, but may lessen it eventually) and try to make sure you don't act like there's anything to be anxious about. Also, when you put her in the laundry room, do you give her things to do? Do you give her a frozen, stuffed kong to work on, some safe toys, etc? Do you tire her out before she goes in the laundry room? Exercise can help alleviate stress!


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