# sports career over before it started



## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

On Saturday I got some very bad news about a friend's agility puppy.

Here's the story: 

My friend acquired an 8wk old collie puppy from a breeder a while back. My friend currently competes in agility (very successfully) with her 7yr old collie. She did her homework and chose a breeder carefully, because she was looking for another sports dog. 

Well, at 6mo old, the puppy has serious GI problems, weepy eyes that require prescription eye drops, an inverted vulva that makes peeing really messy, bone spurs, and arthritis in the elbows. She will never be a sports dog, and my friend's dream of doing agility with this dog is crushed. 

Anyone know of similar horror stories? What would you do in this situation (return the pup to breeder, rehome, keep, or possibly euth)? 

As for me, I'd REALLY like to see this breeder pay for their mistake financially. One of these problems alone is cause for concern, but all of them put together reek of inbreeding. I'm disappointed for my friend, but it makes me furious that the innocent puppy is now looking at a life of pain.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

I'd have to look at the pedigree to know if the problems "reek of inbreeding". I've known plenty of mixes who were a mass of genetic trouble.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Poor dog... man... that sucks. I guess the breeder doesn't have a health guarantee? Sometimes even if people do things right you just get a bad roll of the dice...

I witnessed a similar scenario, definitely not as bad. I knew a hardcore dog sport person who got a dog from a breeder they researched extensively, and the dog didn't turn out anything like they had hoped temperamentally. They wanted to do protection work and the dog was totally not cut out for it from what I understand. They rehomed the dog as a pet. It was frustrating for all and this person was really mad as they paid a lot to import the dog, and also had to deal with giving up a companion they had started to bond with.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Agreed...the problems to me don't "reek of inbreeding". They reek of a crappy genetic crapshoot. I would discuss the health issues with the breeder, and allow the breeder to have a say in whether the puppy is put down, or whether they'd just like to take the puppy back.

That really really stinks.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Indigo said:


> I guess the breeder doesn't have a health guarantee?


Not sure...I don't have any details on the breeder at all. However, I know my friend well, and I know she's very into her breed and very educated when it comes to choosing a breeder. I know she wouldn't choose badly. 

As for now, the pup is on some medication (I assume for pain) and is feeling "full of herself", which is a good sign. Sports are still out, though, no matter what.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Arthritis in both elbows at 6 months? That's... bad. Elbows are a relatively small joint bearing a relatively high workload. Things are going to get rough for the poor kid.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

sassafras said:


> Arthritis in both elbows at 6 months? That's... bad. Elbows are a relatively small joint bearing a relatively high workload. Things are going to get rough for the poor kid.


Yup, dysplastic elbows at 6mo is bad news bears. And to think this dog was sold to an agility home. *Shakes head*


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

I know how I felt when I found out that Prophet had horrible hips at five years of age and I realized he would never be able to jump comfortably enough for advanced training/competition. Can't imagine what that would feel like with a 6-month-old that was purchased specifically for that purpose.  Poor pup...that sucks.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

I would wonder several things:

What is the pedigree?

What health testing was done on the parents?

What guarantee/contract was offered with this puppy?

I know plenty of dogs with serious health issues who came from normal parents. Breeders do not have a crystal ball. Not saying there is not something fishy here, but without more information that is impossible to say.

Your comment regarding inbreeding is inappropriate in light of the lack of information. It would be wise to note that inbreeding does not cause ANYTHING. It only causes what was present already in the genome to be expressed. This is why in the hands of EXPERIENCED BREEDERS it can be an excellent tool to "clean" a line of problems.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

That's utterly heartbreaking, both for the pup and for the dream.  If I were in this position, I don't know what I would do. If the dog had a low chance of even a few pain-free years, I might think about euth. We'll be sending your friend some vibes.

Just a point of clarification, we're talking Rough/Smooth Collie, yes?


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Before villifying the breeder let me share something with you. Some one I know has been breeding working GSD's for many years. Parents are health tested and she has a waiting list a mile long for puppies.. yes.. even in this economy. She is a very careful breeder and ALL her dogs go to working homes.. from Schutzhund to SAR to Obedience.. to agility to Guide dogs and more. In her years as a breeder, she has produced TWO dysplastic puppies. 

Dysplasia is polygenic. It cannot be tested for thru DNA. It can only be dealt with phenotypically. IOW's you Xray all your breeding dogs and only buy dogs that have a lineage of X rayed dogs. You attempt to weed the genes out by using only dogs that have a sound phenotype. STILL you MAY get dysplasia. 

If you are a breeder and it happens (and it CAN happen to even the most careful breeders) you do every thing you can to support your puppy buyer AND you revisit your breeding program. 

If you friend truly did buy from a reputable breeder, that breeder would be turing inside out to 1.) get you a heatlhy puppy or a refund and 2.) looking very hard at the cross that produced that puppy. 

Meanwhile, this person has a dog that cannot be used for what she intended. IMO you try to keep this dog comfortable and happy and as a pet somewhere. Dogs are not livestock.. where you just 'cull' and go on. 

When you buy a puppy, no matter how carefully, you are taking a crap shoot. It may be a wieghted crap shoot but it is a crap shoot regardless.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

That's sad for the pup and for your friend. Dreams dashed. It does happen, though, Like Elana said it is a crapshoot, you just try to do the research to improve the odds.

That being said, I wouldnt' be looking at euthing the pup at this point. You mention the pain meds are helping. As long as the quality of life is decent and pain is controlled the dog can live a relatively good life as a pet, with the understanding that it will definitely have a much shorter life span than a healthy dog. 

I think your friend needs to have some serious discussion with the breeder as to what they can do and are willing to do to help her.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> Just a point of clarification, we're talking Rough/Smooth Collie, yes?


Yes, rough. A color-headed white (I think that's the right term - sorry, I'm not a collie person).

I'm going to avoid the inbreeding debate cause it's been hashed and rehashed here and I'm already exhausted from a day of disc and agility.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

ETA:



Elana55 said:


> Before villifying the breeder let me share something with you.


You've misunderstood. I was not "villifying" the breeder at all. As I said before, I know that my friend chose a breeder very carefully, so this is not a case of "irresponsible" breeding. As breeders go, I think this one is pretty stellar. All possible health testing was done. The breeder is offering to refund, take the dog back and keep, whatever my friend wants. In such a crappy situation, I think that's pretty awesome - they're taking financial responsibility for the mistake, as I hoped they would. 

That said, the biologist in me is not at all convinced that inbreeding is not to blame, but this is opinion only.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> ETA:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then I guess the scientist in you is looking for facts and knows what the COI is on the affected pup?


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

> As for me, I'd REALLY like to see this breeder pay for their mistake financially. One of these problems alone is cause for concern, but all of them put together reek of inbreeding. I'm disappointed for my friend, but it makes me furious that the innocent puppy is now looking at a life of pain.


Sounded villifying to me. Guess I read it wrong. I think it is the word "reek" that got me thinking like that and it seemed like an accusation of inbreeding and it may not be at all. 

Have you looked at the dog's pedigree? If the dog parents are AKC registered you can find them on AKC Website... got to pay for them (AKC gives away nuthin') but you can get 'em and check. Just a thought.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> Then I guess the scientist in you is looking for facts and knows what the COI is on the affected pup?


Clearly no one is reading what I'm writing anyway, so I'll just kill this thread. 

There, done.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

People read what you wrote, and feel badly for your friend's puppy. But you did write something pretty inflammatory.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> On Saturday I got some very bad news about a friend's agility puppy.
> 
> Here's the story:
> 
> ...


 
Does your friend know what health testing the breeder did? Does the breeder have a health gaurantee? Frankly these problems aren't becaue of INBREEDING, though they may be from careless breeding. 

The inverted vulva can be remedied by allowing the pup to go into heat before spaying it's actually far more common that people realize and is not normally an issue as it can be easily fixed this way. 

The GI problems could be due to the food, either a food allergy OR the food is to rich for the dog. 

As far as the eyes, again that could be food allergies or it could be an inverted eye lid (entropian) which is a minor surgery to fix and the dog could live a normal life. 

Arthritis, in an 8 mo old pup I'd suspect she MAY have ED, but to have arthritis and bone spurs would stem from getting high impact excercise too early, dogs, no matter the breed should NEVER jump until they are at least a year old and NO running on concrete surfaces. Bone Spurs and Arthritis DON'T happen this soon without impact and injury, sorry I know this all to well.

In other words there are many possible causes that DON'T neccisarily stem from inbreeding and could instead be either POOR breeding OR injury.

Now as far as what she should do about the dog, well firt thing she should do is contact the BREEDER and let them know what is going on. Most of this stuff can be easily remedied, and the stuff that can't be will make little differance in a pet home where the dog will be loved and not expected to perform in a high impact sport.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

cshellenberger said:


> Bone Spurs and Arthritis DON'T happen this soon without impact and injury...


Yea, they can and do.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

sassafras said:


> Yea, they can and do.


 I think there are diseases that children can get that cause things like this (auto immune disease). 
Realizing you are a veterinarian I would really like to know more, if you care to elucidate. The GSD I mentioned above had HD that showed up well ahead of 6 months old (bunny hopping etc.). 

In humans we all thought Osteo Arthritis was a disease of wear and tear.. but it now seems that while wear and tear is a factor, genetics is also largely to blame (I am a recipient of those genetics.. double dose on both sides of the family.. and mostly the women).


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