# Is this a full-blood corgi puppy?



## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Hello, we are going to pick this little guy up tomorrow
Now, I don't care about blood purity in a dog but I am just worried he is mixed with something bigger, due to his paw size in the image, and we can't have a large dog.
Also, his nose seems unusually long for a corgi pup- is it just me?
Lady has no papers as far as I know and she has said he is full blood.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

He migth be, it's hard to tell from that photo. He's NOT a good example of the breed, though, and is either from PM dogs (small, fine boned, longish leg, typically with iffy temperaments) or is not purebred. He looks almost like a JRT or RT mix- his earset is odd, and the ears are very small. He's probably going to be a red headed tri, so ignroe the markings- but I really would pass on this breeder and find a reputable breeder.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Dogstar said:


> He migth be, it's hard to tell from that photo. He's NOT a good example of the breed, though, and is either from PM dogs (small, fine boned, longish leg, typically with iffy temperaments) or is not purebred. He looks almost like a JRT or RT mix- his earset is odd, and the ears are very small. He's probably going to be a red headed tri, so ignroe the markings- but I really would pass on this breeder and find a reputable breeder.



Thanks a bunch!
I'm going to look at him tomorrow and see. I don't care if he is purebred or not since he is very cute, I just hope he won't be aggressive or anything.

Thanks again


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Looks like a full Cardigan Welsh Corgi to me...cute as a button for sure! The Cardigan noses do tend to look a little longer then the more common Pembrook Welsh Corgies (the gold and white ones). Coloring on your little guy is spot on as far as I can tell. He may not be show quality, but he could make a very nice pet.

My daughter and son in law has a 13 yr. old Pembrook they got as a pup, which is why I'm somewhat familiar with the breed. And her's is a big baby and very sweet.

Congratulations on your new baby! Enjoy him and share lots of pictures of his adventures in his new forever home.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

-Radar- said:


> Looks like a full Cardigan Welsh Corgi to me...cute as a button for sure! The Cardigan noses do tend to look a little longer then the more common Pembrook Welsh Corgies (the gold and white ones). Coloring on your little guy is spot on as far as I can tell. He may not be show quality, but he could make a very nice pet.
> 
> My daughter and son in law has a 13 yr. old Pembrook they got as a pup, which is why I'm somewhat familiar with the breed. And her's is a big baby and very sweet.
> 
> Congratulations on your new baby! Enjoy him and share lots of pictures of his adventures in his new forever home.


Um HELL NO. First off, it's "Pembroke". If you can't spell the breed, you definitely aren't very familiar with it. 

Cardis have tails. Second off, their earset is different, their heads are different, and they have more bone than Pem pups. 

Thirdly, Pems DO come in this color- they come in three colors, actually, red, sable, and tricolor. Cardigans come in an additional two colors, blue merle and brindle. Both breeds have dilutions that are now allowed by the breed standard; blue (grey pigment) dilute occurs in both and liver likely does as well but I've only ever seen documentation of a liver Cardi. 

Please, don't go see this puppy. He's not well bred, he's not from a good breeder, and ALL puppies are cute. Vote with your wallet to support a REPUTABLE corgi breeder.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

THANK YOU Dogstar for handling that! YES, Pembrokes to come in that color.

However - as Dogstar mentioned - this puppy looks to be a poorly bred Pembroke - and most of the poorly bred Pembrokes I've met have had pretty nasty temperaments once they grow up. My in-laws have a puppymill Pembroke that looks similar, and she's a monster.

Not like you need it, but proof that Pems do come in tricolor... this is my red-headed tri Pem, Revy. And yes, she has a blue eye... that happens in Pembrokes sometimes.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Dogstar, my goodness but that was a very rude response on your part. You are right, I forgot completely that Cardigan's have tails, and I didn't say I was an expert, but that I was somewhat familiar with the breed, which I definitely am. I also guess I might not win in a competitive spelling bee, but you needn't be so nasty about it.

AS for instructing Libby not to go see this pup, since it's not a "good" dog pedigree wise, that is heartless. Are you saying that pups like this do not deserve a good and loving home because he does not conform to your "purebred" standards? Expecially considering Libby did state that blood purity didn't matter, that all she was concerned about is that he wouldn't be a big dog (which I very much doubt he will be). I supposed if you would advocate this pup being put to sleep instead?

It might be different if Libby were getting this dog with papers, but she's not. Libby, I say go grab this little pup up and give him lots of love and kisses and I'm betting you'll not regret it. And if he is mixed with something, then he'll be a better dog for it.

Here's a link to a picture of a Cardigan Corgi, and his color is just like your pup. But dogstar is right in that Cardigan owners did not fall prey to the tail dockers so they have long hair. 

Pembroke's do come in different colors, and I had forgotten that, since it's been years since my daughter was Corgie shopping. The most common color, by far, is the gold and white, and I don't think she even saw any Tri color Corgies. I checked the net, and most the tri's I see do not look like your dog. However, many of the Cardigans I've seen do, in their coloring and in the face. It could be that you pup has Cardigan blood in him. I'm sure people breed Cardigans and Pembroke's together from time to time and could explain the lack of papers.

If he does happen to have something else in him, I still don't think you need worry about him being a big dog. And speaking from experience, mixed breeds can make wonderful pets!

Picture of a Cardigan.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/cardigancorgi.htm

Here's a picture of my daughter's Pembroke, as a puppy with her momma. We babysit her quite often and she is a sweetie.










And I do hope you go to see this fellow and that you fall in love with him and give him a good home and that he becomes your best dog ever! Be sure to spend a lot of time with him, training him and loving him. Even the not so perfect looking dogs need good homes and love despite thier "lack" of pedigree, despite what some people might think. Train him up properly with consistency and love, and you'll see he'll easily overcome any lack of "good breeding".

Of course, if you get there and suspect that this person might be a backyard breeder then you might want to think twice about supporting their operation. I'm just saying, don't pass on the dog because he's not the right pedigree. Do pass on the dog rather then support a breeder only in it for the money!


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## DuckyNDogs (May 20, 2009)

Its hard to tell from the pic, but his coat length looks wrong, and ears aren't set right. I wouldn't pay for the pup as if it where a purebred, because IMO theres a fair chance its not. If you are adopting the pup who needs a good home thats a great thing, and if you and the pup mesh then go for it, but if you are paying for a dog that is supposed to be a corgi, then you probably aren't getting what you paid for. The dog definitely has corgi in there, but looks like it could have JRT or some other similar dog.

Either way I don't think it will be a large dog. Corgi pups have big paws.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> Dogstar, my goodness but that was a very rude response on your part. You are right, I forgot completely that Cardigan's have tails, and I didn't say I was an expert, but that I was somewhat familiar with the breed, which I definitely am. I also guess I might not win in a competitive spelling bee, but you needn't be so nasty about it.
> 
> AS for instructing Libby not to go see this pup, since it's not a "good" dog pedigree wise, that is heartless. Are you saying that pups like this do not deserve a good and loving home because he does not conform to your "purebred" standards? Expecially considering Libby did state that blood purity didn't matter, that all she was concerned about is that he wouldn't be a big dog (which I very much doubt he will be). I supposed if you would advocate this pup being put to sleep instead?
> 
> ...


Poorly bred Pembrokes are known for their BAD temperaments. Corgis are basically little cattle dogs - they have hard temperaments to begin with. Dogstar is simply trying to save the OP from a potentially bad situation... inappropriate aggression and toy/food posessiveness seem to be hallmarks of BYB and PM Pembrokes.

Buying BYB puppies only encourages the BYBs to keep breeding. If the OP wants a corgi, they're not an expensive breed - a pet quality puppy from a good breeder can often be less than $1000.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Turns out the little dude is a full bred dog
She got us from a breeder in California, but her friend gave him to her as a gift.
Apparently dogs are a lot cheaper without their papers.
Lady has kept tons of corgis before.
She seems pretty wealthy and trustworthy, so I don't know why not to believe her. I've bought bad breeds before but they were usually from minorities and lower-class people (sorry if that offends anybody).

He's just 7 months old so he has tons of time to grow up. Regardless, he is a cute little guy and I'm really excited to go pick him up today.
My friend has a corgi mix and I absolutely adore him. I honestly don't care about blood purity and none of the dogs I've ever raised were ever aggressive (yes, even those filthy "mixed" dogs some of you keep going on about!)

PS, once again, lady didn't breed him. She doesn't have time to take care of him, and doesn't want to send him to the pound or give him to a bad person.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

libby said:


> Turns out the little dude is a full bred dog
> She got us from a breeder in California, but her friend gave him to her as a gift.
> Apparently dogs are a lot cheaper without their papers.
> Lady has kept tons of corgis before.
> ...


I think the issue every one is pointing out here is that while he may be a "purebred" Corgi, he's very poorly bred. I don't know much about Corgis, but personally he doesn't look like any pup I've seen structurally wise and I wouldn't have thought Corgi when I saw him. It isn't this blood purity issue it's temperament of poorly bred Corgis. I have a abysmally bred Dachshund (another breed I would NOT mess around with when looking for a good breeder.) and he brought behavioral problems by the truck load. Every one is just trying to serve you a warning that he could be an absolute hellion and that may be something to think about if the lady is giving him away at 7 months old. And most of these thread starters seem to think every one is getting down on mutts when that is never the case here. Most of us HAVE mutts. 

Also, class and wealth and especially race has nothing to do with trustworthiness.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

libby said:


> Turns out the little dude is a full bred dog
> She got us from a breeder in California, but her friend gave him to her as a gift.
> Apparently dogs are a lot cheaper without their papers.
> Lady has kept tons of corgis before.
> ...


So the first version of this post said he was a purebred Cardigan, but you edited it to say "dog" - what, not a Cardi anymore? And there is no way that's a 7 month old corgi puppy, unless that's a really old photo... my 17 week old Pembroke puppy looks older than the puppy in your photo.

Just because the dogs you've owned before haven't been aggressive doesn't mean that you'll never own one that is. And I don't believe any of us said anything about "filthy mixed breeds" - those are your own words. I have no problem with mixed breed dogs, for the most part.

If the dog's breeder in CA isn't good enough to take the puppy back, the breeder isn't one I'd ever recommend getting a dog from. And the fact that the dog was given as a "gift" - to someone who it sounds like didn't want the dog in the first place - red flags.

And. um.... you're insinuating that people that aren't caucasian sell "bad breeds" - Uhhh... yeah, how could you say that without knowing you'd offend a lot of people with that? Skin color has no bearing on whether or not a breeder is responsible or not. Neither does wealth - I know a lot of rich breeders that are vile human beings and do not breed responsibly...

You seem hellbent on getting this BYB puppy... I can't help you there. I guess some people have to make their own mistakes in order to learn anything.


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## Max'sHuman (Oct 6, 2007)

libby said:


> I've bought bad breeds before but they were usually from minorities and lower-class people (sorry if that offends anybody).


Sorry IF that offends anybody? I'd be more surprised if someone wasn't offended.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

sizzledog said:


> If the OP wants a corgi, they're not an expensive breed - a pet quality puppy from a good breeder can often be less than $1000.


Goodness. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means poor, but I don't see that many in middle class america, expecially in this economy, would see any dog remotly near a $1,000 as not expensive.

LIBBY, that's wonderful. I'm so glad you're going for the little fellow. He looks adorable in his picture and I'm guessing you'll have tons of fun with him. At 7 months old you're going to find him quite demanding of your time and attention, and quite full of mischief, but quite fun to be with too. 

My advice is to get out the training books and videos and set your DVR to tape Victoria Stillwell on "It's Me or the Dog". I do very much like that show and my little Radar has responded excellently to her upbeat positive training methods. 

Congratulations on your new friend, purebred or not.


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## DuckyNDogs (May 20, 2009)

Yea um thats pretty offensive. And I have a mixed breed dog, I certainly don't think shes filthy. I am pretty sure what everyone is saying here is that while the dog may be a purebred corgi, it's got enough physical features to indicate that it wasnt _well bred_ and that can mean a host of problems, both physical (in regards to health and genetic defect issues) and temperament. Hopefully you won't have these issues since it seems you plan to get the dog, but it everyone felt it was important enough to warn you so that you could be prepared. I knew that when we adopted our "filthy mixed breed" lab mix pup that she may end up with hip problems, and I am prepared to deal with that if and when that comes up. You should read up on the congenital defects that corgis can have, and you need to be prepared to deal with them if they come up, which is more likely in a dog that hasn't been purposefully and thoughtfully bred by a breeder who knows what they are doing.

Also, wealth is no indicator of honesty. There are a number of very wealthy people that got that way by doing dishonest things.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> Goodness. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means poor, but I don't see that many in middle class america, expecially in this economy, would see any dog remotly near a $1,000 as not expensive.
> 
> LIBBY, that's wonderful. I'm so glad you're going for the little fellow. He looks adorable in his picture and I'm guessing you'll have tons of fun with him. At 7 months old you're going to find him quite demanding of your time and attention, and quite full of mischief, but quite fun to be with too.
> 
> ...


Ummmm.... no it's not expensive. And I'm about as middle-class American as you can get. Revy was $700 from a show/performance breeder. For a well bred, well socialized puppy from champion (and performance titled) parents that have been fully health tested... $700 was downright cheap.

I'd rather spend $700 up front than spend thousands on health and temperament problems of a BYB puppy. But that's called "planning ahead." If someone can't shell out $700 for a puppy, it makes me wonder what else along the line they can't afford.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

libby said:


> Turns out the little dude is a full bred dog
> She got us from a breeder in California, but her friend gave him to her as a gift.
> Apparently dogs are a lot cheaper without their papers.
> Lady has kept tons of corgis before.
> ...


I dont know anything about corgis but I will say I bought Maggie off a lady on craigslist because her son had allergies. She was 5 months old and I am assuming came from a BYB. She had faulty prick ears and I am assuming that wouldnt be bred from a responsible breeder (I could be wrong) anyways she was not potty trained, had terrible house manners...But in the end she is a great family dog and we love her. She has issues...like listening LOL


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## DuckyNDogs (May 20, 2009)

sizzledog said:


> Ummmm.... no it's not expensive. And I'm about as middle-class American as you can get. Revy was $700 from a show/performance breeder. For a well bred, well socialized puppy from champion (and performance titled) parents that have been fully health tested... $700 was downright cheap.
> 
> I'd rather spend $700 up front than spend thousands on health and temperament problems of a BYB puppy. But that's called "planning ahead." If someone can't shell out $700 for a puppy, it makes me wonder what else along the line they can't afford.


Agreed, and even if you are on a budget you can certainly save up for a puppy while you are on a breeders wait list. In all likelihood a good breeder isn't going to have the pup you want right this instant, so that time you are waiting for your pup is time for you to get prepared and save some money so that you can afford not only the pup, but the first year vet cost, which is particularly expensive. Not to mention the training sessions, about 200 tons of toys that they will tear through, and all the extra food because puppies eat a lot more.

All in all, paying for a quality pup is a money saver. My husband and I have this ongoing argument about tennis shoes. He gets the cheapest pair that he can fit into at Walmart. I do research and spend more, but get an overall better pair of shoes. His shoes last 9 months to a year and mine last 3 to 5 years. Overall, he spent more replacing shoes then he would have if he had just bought quality shoes to begin with. If you purchase a quality pup that has had parents that are health screened and of good temperament, you are going to spend less at the vet and less on training in the long run.

I'm not saying the dog doesn't deserve a good home. What I am saying is that you shouldn't pay for a poorly bred dog, and that if you do get a dog from a BYB you should be prepared that you will probably have some costly issues to deal with down the line.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

-Radar- said:


> Goodness. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means poor, but I don't see that many in middle class america, expecially in this economy, would see any dog remotly near a $1,000 as not expensive.


We are VERY middle class. I stay at home and my SO works. We're looking at close to $3000 for our next dog, to us that isn't a lot since we KNOW the dog will be healthy. I found one for $350 with no papers, but there is no way i'm going to do that. I'm already having enough health issuses with my BYB 1 year old dog. Not doing that again.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

sizzledog said:


> Ummmm.... no it's not expensive. And I'm about as middle-class American as you can get. Revy was $700 from a show/performance breeder. For a well bred, well socialized puppy from champion (and performance titled) parents that have been fully health tested... $700 was downright cheap.
> 
> I'd rather spend $700 up front than spend thousands on health and temperament problems of a BYB puppy. But that's called "planning ahead." If someone can't shell out $700 for a puppy, it makes me wonder what else along the line they can't afford.


Revy was only $700?? I don't think I'd classify that as "cheap", but I would call it a good deal for SURE.

My girls (although not Corgis of course) were $950 and $850 respectfully, and they are now 3yrs and 1yr old.. the number of significant health issues I've had with them so far? *0* I'd say they purchase price was worth it.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

CoverTune said:


> Revy was only $700?? I don't think I'd classify that as "cheap", but I would call it a good deal for SURE.
> 
> My girls (although not Corgis of course) were $950 and $850 respectfully, and they are now 3yrs and 1yr old.. the number of significant health issues I've had with them so far? *0* I'd say they purchase price was worth it.


YEP! I was floored when I found out how little I had to pay for her, I was expecting much more. My Dobermans... well, let's just say that a *pet quality* Doberman from a good breeder is $1800-$2000. So yeah - I was expecting Revy to be a lot more expensive. It was a pleasant surprise to pay so little... and for such a great puppy, with such a great pedigree (when considering health, temperament, conformation and working ability - Revy's litter was pretty snazzy!)


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Ducky,

I don't think it was the warning of getting a dog that wasn't well bred that that was the problem but rather the negative way it was presented that got Libby's hackles up. It was as if she was about to commit a crime if she decided she wanted this fellow to be her forever pet, and her response, although it might have been better worded, was in defense of her soon to be new best friend.

Your reponse, however, about why she might want to consider other dogs, was well presented and thoughtful. However, it came after the others and I'm sure hackles were already raised.

Libby, take lots of pictures of your new baby and post them in the picture forum for us too see!


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

I think if you took a poll, any amount above 750.00, would be considered expensive for a dog by most Americans. Of course, those who want show quality dogs wouldn't think it expensive, but most aren't looking for a show dog.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Honestly, $700 is very cheap for a well bred dog. I'd get one in an INSTANT. Well bred dogs usually sell for 1000 or more, but you have lifelong breeder support, someone to return the dog to if something doesn't work out, and best of all, less health issues! Illnesses like luxating patellas and hip dysplasia are so rampant in poorly bred dogs (think BYBs and puppy mills). Why would one support a BYB or a puppy mill that does not care about the well being of their dogs and the ones that they sell?

While adopting a poorly bred dog from a shelter is a GOOD thing, buying a poorly bred dog from a bad breeder/puppy mill is another. Your money goes into fuelling the disgusting cycle of dogs being kept solely for their reproductive functions.

And OP, seriously, your racism is, well.. how shall I put it? It belongs in the 1800s. Your skin colour does not say ANYTHING about what kind of person you are, and neither does your wealth. In my experience, people who are less well off are usually more humble, and MUCH, MUCH nicer people than the ones who own Ferraris and live in mansions.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

-Radar- said:


> I think if you took a poll, any amount above 750.00, would be considered expensive for a dog by most Americans. Of course, those who want show quality dogs wouldn't think it expensive, but most aren't looking for a show dog.


Thats becuase majority of people looking for a pet have no idea how to actually buy a well bred pet. back yard breeders are a dime a dozen and easy to find on sites like kijiji and in the paper. Majority of people have no idea about genetic tests, the importence on showing or trialing a dog, temperment testing and so on. Many people dont know what a pedigree'd papered dog means, and what papers show you. Many believe papers are only importent for showing a dog. But many here would disagree with that. As papers show you a history of your dog, before it was born, shows you if or what genetic issues were brought on by what line when introduced, if a dog 3 generations back had hip issues, or elbow issues.

My boyfriends parents are ont he though process that papers mean jack. sitting next to me is their terrible lhaso apso back yard breed dog. who has sezuires, along with her mother, grandmother, aunt and all her siblings from both litters. Were the breeders nice and caring? Yes they are family friends, have been for over 30 yeaars. This dog has major, major temperment issues, guarding issues, sking issues ect. she is a mess. Now if they just bought from a respectable reputable breeder, they could have easily missed all these issues that they got from supporting a BYB


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

You'll find no argument from me that no one should buy from a BYB, believe me. However, I know someone who reciently bred her pedigree poodle with a friend's poodle and had four darling little pups. Both parents have nice pedigrees and the pups were all health checked, tails docked and had their first set of shots. She sold them for 400.00 each and she is NOT a BYB. There are thousands of people out there doing the same.

I guess I should take into account that what would be an expensive dog in Arkansas would probably not be expensive in California or the East Coast or in other parts of the country.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

libby said:


> She seems pretty wealthy and trustworthy, so I don't know why not to believe her. I've bought bad breeds before but they were usually from minorities and lower-class people (sorry if that offends anybody).


Wow, just wow. Seriously?

Radar- your example is a good example of a BYB.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> You'll find no arguement from me that no one should buy from a BYB, believe me. However, I know someone who reciently bred her pedigree poodle with a friend's poodle and had four darling little pups. Both parents have nice pedigrees and the pups were all health checked, tails docked and had their first set of shots. She sold them for 400.00 each and she is NOT a BYB. There are thousands of people out there doing the same.


 I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that these 'pedigreed' poodles weren't titled in anything, had never stepped foot in the show ring, and weren't health tested. So the puppies were health checked? As in the vet made sure there were 4 legs, 2 eyes, and 2 ears, that's all health 'checks' are compared to actual health testing of the parents. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about the concept of good breeders. Don't buy a back yard breeder puppy, especially one that doens't even look like a corgi should. If you do, especially with corgis, you'll come home with an unhealthy and unstable corgi...that you actually payed for. Good job, you manage to bring home a little terror and ensure that this byb breeder can continue breeding defective corgis. Got it now? 

Not to be rude but you keep fighting very knowledgable people on here. People that have bred dogs themselves and shown dogs, you're being quite ignorant and ignoring the facts put in front of you. Don't buy a byb mixed breed dog, if you are going to do that then go to a shelter and save one.


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## Taz Monkey (Sep 2, 2007)

My 3 dogs, aged 7, 6 and 4 combined cost me $200. The amount of money I've put into vet care besides routine shots and 1 ear infection...$0. Poorly bred pound puppies can be extremely healthy also.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

The going rate for a corgi puppy from a good (health tests and shows or trials- but the latter are as rare as hen's teeth) breeder will run you from about $600 in the midwest (for a male pembroke puppy) to about $1500 for a Cardigan on the East Coast from one of the newer breeders. (ANd you can find Cardis from reputable breeders at the bottom of this range, too- they tend to be the older breeders in the midwest and southeast. Some show Pems will be at the top of this range- I've heard up to $2000 for a pointed show bitch in Pems). 

They're a comparatively CHEAP breed, all things considered. DM testing, OFA hips, and CERF are pretty much the norm for good breeders. In Pems, there's vWd testing, too, and in some Cardi litters, there will be DNA testing for PRA as well. 

There are a lot of health problems the breed can have- IVDD is the one that scares me most. But bad temperaments are by far the MOST common problem.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Taz Monkey said:


> My 3 dogs, aged 7, 6 and 4 combined cost me $200. The amount of money I've put into vet care besides routine shots and 1 ear infection...$0. Poorly bred pound puppies can be extremely healthy also.


And well-bred puppies get sick sometimes, too. One anecdotal case doesn't mean you should support BYBs or not adopt from shelters. It's about risk management.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

-Radar- said:


> Dogstar, my goodness but that was a very rude response on your part. You are right, I forgot completely that Cardigan's have tails, and I didn't say I was an expert, but that I was somewhat familiar with the breed, which I definitely am. I also guess I might not win in a competitive spelling bee, but you needn't be so nasty about it.
> 
> AS for instructing Libby not to go see this pup, since it's not a "good" dog pedigree wise, that is heartless. Are you saying that pups like this do not deserve a good and loving home because he does not conform to your "purebred" standards? Expecially considering Libby did state that blood purity didn't matter, that all she was concerned about is that he wouldn't be a big dog (which I very much doubt he will be). I supposed if you would advocate this pup being put to sleep instead?
> 
> ...


Excuse me, but WTH are you talking about? Pembrokes are born without tails, and what in the world does that have to do with their hair?

Why don't you leave it to the people who own this breed and know a little more than a google search yields, eh?


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> You'll find no argument from me that no one should buy from a BYB, believe me. However, I know someone who reciently bred her pedigree poodle with a friend's poodle and had four darling little pups. Both parents have nice pedigrees and the pups were all health checked, tails docked and had their first set of shots. She sold them for 400.00 each and she is NOT a BYB. There are thousands of people out there doing the same.
> 
> I guess I should take into account that what would be an expensive dog in Arkansas would probably not be expensive in California or the East Coast or in other parts of the country.


what is a "good" pedigree? I have an aunt who bought a pedigreed Boxer from a woman, the woman had all the puppies checked by a vet and guess what, All but ONE of the original 5 puppies died from cancer before the age of 7 years. WHY? because the breeder didn't KNOW the dogs in the pedigree personally and she had no idea what the great grandparents had died from.

Your friend sounds like a BYB to me, she doesn't do OFA or CERF Tests on the parents she doesn't do any trials or shows with the parents, so she apparently doesn't care about the betterment of the breed.
So what that your friend took the puppies to the vet to get checked out and they got their shots thats MINIMUM of the care a good breeder should do.
I'm sure your friend is a VERY nice lady who loves her dogs, most BYB are like that, it's the amount of care and preperation they put into the breeding that makes the difference between a BYB and a Quality breeder.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Boolett, all of the pups in my daughter's litter had to have their tails docked. My daughter was there and watched how they did it. None were born with the small nub that the breed standard looks for.

As for tails having anything to do with hair, if the sentence were read in context, any reasonably intelligent person would know that I actually meant to say tail rather then hair.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

So the answer is that anyone wanting a specific breed should not buy any dog from anyone unless they can trace both parent's pedigree back (how many generations?) and unless they cost over 600+ dollars?

I do not consider my friend a backyard breeder. She was careful to find a good dog to breed with, she had the mother cared for by a vet all during her pregnancy, she had all the puppies and the mother checked soon after birth. She followed all the rules of the AKC and the puppies were all guarenteed by her and were sold with papers and a contract that they would be returned to her if anything didn't work out.

If you want to call her a BYB then I have to say that I do support some BYB. I certainly supported her and I would anyone like her who took the same care in breeding their pedigree dogs.

I simply wasn't aware that the "legitimate breeders" had cured all the ailments that pedigree dogs are prone to. Gosh, then it certainly would pay to get dogs only from those breeders!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> So the argument is do not buy any dog from anyone *unless they can trace the dogs pedigree back, how many generations,* and unless they cost hundreds of dollars?


The bolded part is true, no one should be breeding their dog unless they know if there are any health issues in the dogs in the pedigree. 
you forgot to mention that the breeder should be doing ALL they can to prevent the spread of hereditary disorders by doing testing such as OFA, CERF, Pen Hip, ect.
But cost hundreds of dollars? no that is not a requirement. I have been offered dogs that met all of the above crtieria for free because they know I will raise the dog to be the best it can be. They do often cost a few hundred because the breeder needs to help pay for all the health tests and such, breeding quality dogs isn't cheap.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Keechak, I think the fact that _you_ could get a well bred dog for free is a bit unfair. You go above and beyond a pet owner, you've had several dogs, and you "on the in." While that's spectacular for you, it's quite frankly something that just isn't going to happen for someone that just wants a pet. A pet to take excellent care of, but just a pet.

But the point stands. It really comes down to what makes one a reputable breeder? There are a lot of subtleties, but I think you can reduce it to standing behind your dogs. That means you take back any puppy, for any reason, at any time. That means you protect against hereditary diseases. I don't think anyone can argue that dogs on a whole, as it stands now, are not the healthiest of animals. Being a breeder means working to change that. There's lots of different ways to work towards that goal, but just taking the dogs to the vet doesn't cut it.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

-Radar- said:


> I simply wasn't aware that the "legitimate breeders" had cured all the ailments that pedigree dogs are prone to. Gosh, then it certainly would pay to get dogs only from those breeders!


No reputable breeder has ever claimed to eradicate all genetic ailments from dogs, but I'm pretty sure they don't go out of their way to breed ones with them, or not make the effort to do health testing to find out, like I'm sure your friend didn't do. Finding two nice dogs that are from other nice dogs doesn't equate a good breeding. I'm sure she makes a decent amount of money from her litters, too. 

My Dachshund is from a BYB who is doing what your friend is doing. I found him in a rescue. The fact that he was in a rescue with his AKC papers was a small red flag for me- why doesn't his breeder know where he is? Why is he in this rescue? He is a disaster conformational wise (not that that matters much to me, but a Dachshund with a extremely long body and bowing legs is bad news for HIM) he has PRA and he has the nasty temperament to boot. I know for a fact he was used as a stud dog (His breeder sold him NOT on a spay/neuter contract? Red flag again) and when I contacted his breeder through the papers to just let her know I had her dog and he was safe. I let her know that he did in fact have PRA- and she informed me his father was blind. But she bred him. And then tried to sell me Jonas' sister. Her pups are 400-800 dollar (and the price goes up for dapples- another red flag to me)


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Kee - I'm sure my friend took all that into consideration when she bred her poodle. She's that sort of person.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> You'll find no argument from me that no one should buy from a BYB, believe me. However, I know someone who reciently bred her pedigree poodle with a friend's poodle and had four darling little pups. Both parents have nice pedigrees and the pups were all health checked, tails docked and had their first set of shots. She sold them for 400.00 each and she is NOT a BYB. There are thousands of people out there doing the same.
> 
> I guess I should take into account that what would be an expensive dog in Arkansas would probably not be expensive in California or the East Coast or in other parts of the country.


Uhhh... no, your friend is a BYB. 



BooLette said:


> Excuse me, but WTH are you talking about? Pembrokes are born without tails, and what in the world does that have to do with their hair?
> 
> Why don't you leave it to the people who own this breed and know a little more than a google search yields, eh?


Pembrokes - many of them - are born with tails. I have photos of Revy with a long tail... when she was 2 days old. 


Keechak - people like you aren't the norm. Average people don't really have the opportunity to be given free dogs. I have a free dog, but that was after nearly a decade of knowing and working closely with the breeder - if a price could be put on hard work... I'd say my "free" dog is the most expensive one of all.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

-Radar- said:


> Kee - I'm sure my friend took all that into consideration when she bred her poodle. She's that sort of person.


Did she tak in to account PRA? It effects alot of poodles. I had a poodle growing up who was blind by age 6. could have been easily preventable, if the BYB did health tests. My poor poodle lived to be 13 in a dark black world, all due to breed negligence.

what about Patellar Luxation? and Von Willebrand's disease? what about a skin biopsy for Sebaceous Adenitis? 50% of standard poodles are effected by it. That's alot. 

I doubt your friend di any of these tests, or any of the other ones. Poodles as a whole are pretty unhealthy as it is. and then when you get bad breeders like you friend, it just add's more bad genetics to the fire.

which is why we are all against BYB's here.

I guess until you see a poor dog who can hardly walk due to some genetic fault, that its breeder didnt screen for. or have a dog from a BYB like your friend and have a unhealth genetic nightmare, then you will relize how bad BYB's are.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

In a perfect world, no one except these "legitimate breeders" would be allowed to breed pedigree dogs. But the world is far from perfect and my friend is perfectly within her rights to breed her dog. I appreciate that she takes such good care of her momma dog and the pups. 

I'd rather spend my effort outing the BYBs who do not care for their dogs, who breed multiple dogs and give no guarentees, who do not check out the potiential buyers, who do not make them sign a contract, etc.. 

I have a 14 year old poodle who was given to me by my neighbor at the time. It was the second litter from her 4 year old poodle. I'm sure she did not do all those tests and he's a super dog and has never cost me a penny other then regular checkups and shots at the vet.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Keechak said:


> The bolded part is true, no one should be breeding their dog unless they know if there are any health issues in the dogs in the pedigree.
> you forgot to mention that the breeder should be doing ALL they can to prevent the spread of hereditary disorders by doing testing such as OFA, CERF, Pen Hip, ect.
> But cost hundreds of dollars? no that is not a requirement. They do often cost a few hundred because the breeder needs to help pay for all the health tests and such, breeding quality dogs isn't cheap.


+1

That's the exact reason why pedigrees are made/kept.. so you can research back through several generations and be aware of any health concerns.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

_



My Dachshund is from a BYB who is doing what your friend is doing. 

I contacted his breeder through the papers to just let her know I had her dog and he was safe. I let her know that he did in fact have PRA- and she informed me his father was blind. But she bred him. And then tried to sell me Jonas' sister. Her pups are 400-800 dollar (and the price goes up for dapples- another red flag to me)

Click to expand...

_No, you dachshund is NOT from a BYB that is doing what my friend is doing. My friend would have NEVER considered breeding her girl with a blind dog. That's a horrible example of a breeder and doesn't belong in the same breath with my friend.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

-Radar- said:


> No, you dachshund is NOT from a BYB that is doing what my friend is doing. My friend would have NEVER considered breeding her girl with a blind dog. That's a horrible example of a breeder and doesn't belong in the same breath with my friend.


It does if she doesn't do health testing. If she had health tested her dog, she would have known before he went blind and before she bred who knows how many litters. BYBs to me are people who have a nice dog and they find another nice dog and therefore they should have puppies. No idea what will pop up down the line. My Elkhound is quite a nice dog, and I most certainly care about him and take him to the vet, but I'd be a BYB if I just picked another nice dog that goes to the vet and had puppies. I'm sure your friend makes a profit off her puppies.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

-Radar- said:


> No, you dachshund is NOT from a BYB that is doing what my friend is doing. My friend would have NEVER considered breeding her girl with a blind dog. That's a horrible example of a breeder and doesn't belong in the same breath with my friend.


But how does your friend KNOW that these dogs wont go blind? How does she know her dog or the mate wont go blind?

she doesnt as she is just a BYB, cut from the same cloth as other crappy breeders.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

I never thought of my friend as a byb, but I see what you are all saying about the health testing. But I do know that until laws are written to license breeders and require testing of all dogs before bred, and as long as "legitimate breeders" charge 600.00 up for their dogs there will always be bybs. I'd rather see ones like her then ones that don't care about the dogs and are only in it for the money. 

There always degrees in everthing. I vote for spending my efforts on fighting the backyard breeders who only want the cash, breeding them often, having multiple litters, and do the bare minimum necessary for the dogs and puppies health and safety. I'll call them bbyb (Bad Backyard Breeders). 

I'm also for totally advocating the adoption of shelter and rescue dogs, before buying any dog from elsewhere, bbyb or byb. I'm partial to mutts, myself.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Somehow I have a feeling such a thread can be never ending (and I'm betting there's a lot of threads such as this one on this forum) so I'm bowwowing out of this one.

I would like to know how Libby and her new Corgi is doing? Libby, if you've read this far, would you start a new thread about your new dog, hopefully with pictures, in the picture category? I'd love to see more pictures of him!


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> I have a 14 year old poodle who was given to me by my neighbor at the time. It was the second litter from her 4 year old poodle. I'm sure she did not do all those tests and he's a super dog and has never cost me a penny other then regular checkups and shots at the vet.


I have a beagle from a Puppy mill who hasn't had any problems, so far nothing has happened as far as her health goes due to genetics. Does that mean it's okay for me to go out and buy puppies from mills? No. It also doens't mean that just because she's healthy, her puppies would be too if I was going to breed. So many things go into breeding a dog. Yes, breeders should know the lineage of the parents including the diseases prone in the line.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I'm a middle class Canadian (not American lol) and I'm a college student paying off tuition and I only work part time but I still think $1000 is cheap for a well bred dog. If the parents were shown/titled then $1000 is cheap. Also depending on the breed but I expect to pay $1500-2000 for a pet quality small breed dog. For larger breeds $750-1000 is a great price. 

From the breeders I've looked at, if they sell for under $750 they're usually BYBs without titles or health tests on their dogs. I'm sure there are good breeders that sell pet pups for $750 but I haven't found any. For a Papillon $1300-1500 for a pet quality is about the average in Canada. 

To the OP, that Corgi doesn't look well bred but if you're just giving him a home without paying a lot of money then go for it. If you're willing to "rescue" him and willing to spend money on his health and training and working really hard on issues then all means give him a great home!


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## the_mighty_khan (Nov 10, 2009)

libby said:


> I've bought bad breeds before but they were usually from minorities and lower-class people (sorry if that offends anybody).


WTF? So rich and white = good and poor and non-white = bad? I bet you've bookmarked stormfront.org, huh?


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

My goodness i cant believe how many people are telling you not to get this puppy. if this puppy was at a shelter or rescue then they would be rooting you on. i personally think you should go for it and help this little guy out, but be aware that it probably will end up having health issues and will need a good food and good training. if i was a dog and the world rejected every dog that wasn't "bred correctly" then i would have been put down after birth. my gosh people lets think about the soul of the dog instead of the body. it deserves a good home and love even if it does end up having issues.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Mother Gaia said:


> My goodness i cant believe how many people are telling you not to get this puppy. if this puppy was at a shelter or rescue then they would be rooting you on. i personally think you should go for it and help this little guy out, but be aware that it probably will end up having health issues and will need a good food and good training. if i was a dog and the world rejected every dog that wasn't "bred correctly" then i would have been put down after birth. my gosh people lets think about the soul of the dog instead of the body. it deserves a good home and love even if it does end up having issues.


You don't find _anything_ wrong with paying people to make poorly bred dogs? I don't think anyone would have an issue with this if the dog was free, but by paying these people they are encouraged to make more, Lets think about all the poor future puppies who will be suffering from genetic defects and horrible temperaments.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

Keechak said:


> You don't find _anything_ wrong with paying people to make poorly bred dogs? I don't think anyone would have an issue with this if the dog was free, but by paying these people they are encouraged to make more, Lets think about all the poor future puppies who will be suffering from genetic defects and horrible temperaments.


Ok obviously you didn't read the last post that libby posted, they said that this puppy is not coming from a breeder its coming from a person who got it as a gift and no longer can keep it. and no we shouldn't support bad breeding but it is not the puppies fault so it still deserves a loving home. and bad breeders should be stopped and dogs with issues should be spayed and neutered so not to spread the gene but should be loved anyways.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Mother Gaia said:


> Ok obviously you didn't read the last post that libby posted, they said that this puppy is not coming from a breeder its coming from a person who got it as a gift and no longer can keep it. and no we shouldn't support bad breeding but it is not the puppies fault so it still deserves a loving home. and bad breeders should be stopped and dogs with issues should be spayed and neutered so not to spread the gene but should be loved anyways.


your right I got your post confused with something else. This thread has two different stories going on and I wasn't sure which one you were posting about.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

Taz Monkey said:


> My 3 dogs, aged 7, 6 and 4 combined cost me $200. The amount of money I've put into vet care besides routine shots and 1 ear infection...$0. Poorly bred pound puppies can be extremely healthy also.


Or you can get one like my MIL's pound dog that has had so many health problems in his 7 years of life she has spent enough to buy 5 well bred dogs. On top of that he has HA/DA problems that even the best dog trainer couldn't fix. They are problems he was born with (though if had a better owner they wouldn't be nearly as bad). 

IMO a BYB dog or pound dog can go either way. They can be great tempered, healthy dogs, or sickly little monsters. My BYB dog is great, and so far pretty healthy, but its not always like that. I use to only want to adopt dogs, but now I prefer to get a well bred dog so I know what i'm getting. That way the chances of me getting a dog with health or dog aggression issues is slim to none.


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## crzy_brunette77 (May 19, 2009)

Sam is a good example of a breeder that did things the right way but may still be considered a BYB. His mom and dad are registered, have won and competed in obedience and rally-o trials. They've both had all the necessary genetic testing and such, which is important in the breed since things like luxating patella are a problem. Mom is 6lbs and dad is 7lbs, both are conformationally correct. And they were bred by a very nice lady who bought the dogs from another breeder a few years back and just really enjoys puppies. She was retired and the going price for her pups is $750 for a male and $800 for a female. Despite the price, she doesn't really make a profit, since the puppies have all their shots, cost a lot to raise up to 10 weeks when she lets them go home, etc. This is still cheaper then the $1500-$2000 price range I came across when originally starting my Yorkie search (these prices were sometimes for dogs with NO papers, NO first shots, nothing!). She provides a spay/neuter contract upon selling the dogs and you must return them to her if you don't want the dog or something goes wrong.

Unfortunately, she passed away and her daughter didn't want to raise the puppies, so she attempted to drown mom and pups. A family friend of mine works in dog rescue, lived in the neighborhood and offered to take mom, dad and the pups. I got Sam for free (I gave a $750 donation to her rescue instead) but had the original breeder not passed I would have no problem paying $750 for him. He is a conformational disaster and 15 lbs (proving that even well bred parents can produce a puppy thats doesn't look well bred!). He isn't registered simply because I see no need to do so, but if I ever really felt like it, since mom and dad are, I could go and get him registered with the CKC.

So would she be a BYB? I'd say no. However, whenever people used to ask me where I got Sam and such and when they heard my story, they would tell me that had I bought from the original woman, I would have been propagating a BYB and how terrible it would be. Now I just say he's a rescue because people make me feel like I did something wrong for taking him (even if he really is a rescue!) and not searching far and wide so that I can pay $1500 for a Yorkie that would be just as healthy and whose background I would know just as much about as Sam! 

So while I agree with 99% of people on here that BYB's should be avoided at all costs, there are exceptions and people who are legitimately breeding dogs correctly but are not a true breeder per say.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

Keechak said:


> your right I got your post confused with something else. This thread has two different stories going on and I wasn't sure which one you were posting about.


I admire you for for admitting being confused thank you, and yes i agree on not buying from bad breeders, they shouldn't be encouraged. i wish that the US would make it so that you can't breed unless you meet special conditions, and then all those who breed their dogs with out licenses should get fined, i understand on those who have a dog get pregnant by mistake but those who do it just for the sake of it and not for the well being of the puppy should be stopped. all they are doing is adding to the homeless pet population.
i knew a couple who let their two lab mixes breed and had lots puppies. they never took the dogs to the vet or got them shots and most of the time had the dogs out in a filthy dirty kennel. when we asked them why they didn't want to spay and neuter their dogs they said they wanted their children to be raised up around puppies. after their second large litter all the puppies contracted parvo and died including the father. we need to look into the health and happiness of the animals instead of multiplying them like they are some type of toy for our amusement.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

-Radar- said:


> Boolett, all of the pups in my daughter's litter had to have their tails docked. My daughter was there and watched how they did it. None were born with the small nub that the breed standard looks for.
> 
> As for tails having anything to do with hair, if the sentence were read in context, any reasonably intelligent person would know that I actually meant to say tail rather then hair.


I didn't take your statement out of context, and it's really hard to decipher your posts when you fail to use correct grammar or punctuation. If you don't want your posts read incorrectly then maybe you should double check to make sure you said what you meant. Then you won't make a fool of yourself.

Also, spelling my name right would be a start. 

What kind of puppies were they? I just don't understand what you are saying here. Pembroke Welsh Corgis are born TAILLESS! So, saying that cardigan breeders have not fallen to the tail docking is pointless and stupid because Pembrokes don't have their tails docked either.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

BooLette said:


> What kind of puppies were they? I just don't understand what you are saying here. Pembroke Welsh Corgis are born TAILLESS! So, saying that cardigan breeders have not fallen to the tail docking is pointless and stupid because Pembrokes don't have their tails docked either.


only roughly 50 percent of Pembroke puppies are born with nubs, and in order to even have a chance at having "bob" puppies one of the parents has to also be a bob.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

Keechak said:


> only roughly 50 percent of Pembroke puppies are born with nubs, and in order to even have a chance at having "bob" puppies one of the parents has to also be a bob.


I have never seen a Pembroke born with a tail. 



> Historically, the Pembroke was a breed with a natural bob tail (very short tail). Due to the advent of docking, the trait was not aggressively pursued, with breeders focusing instead on other characteristics and artificially shortening the tail when necessary. Given that some countries are now banning docking, breeders are again attempting to select for dogs with the genes for natural bob tails


I guess that would be the reason.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

BooLette said:


> I guess that would be the reason.


"unfortunatly"(?) It's impossible to breed true for the bob tail. in England Pemmies are allowed to show with a natural bob, a docked tail or a long tail. A bob tail to bob tail breeding will produce 50% bob tailed puppies 25% longtail puppies and the other 25% wont live long enough to be born.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

BooLette said:


> I didn't take your statement out of context, and it's really hard to decipher your posts when you fail to use correct grammar or punctuation. If you don't want your posts read incorrectly then maybe you should double check to make sure you said what you meant. Then you won't make a fool of yourself.
> 
> Also, spelling my name right would be a start.
> 
> What kind of puppies were they? I just don't understand what you are saying here. Pembroke Welsh Corgis are born TAILLESS! So, saying that cardigan breeders have not fallen to the tail docking is pointless and stupid because Pembrokes don't have their tails docked either.



My, you are a nasty little pup, aren't you? OK, I said I was bowwowing out of this thread since it had gotten way off track, but this one I just had to respond to.

Yes, I type fast, about 75 wpm, and at times my mind still gets ahead of my typing and I do make the occasional mistake that is missed in the proofreading. However, I'm sure your typing is not always perfect and, when it's not, I do hope someone isn't as rude about it as you are.

And as for looking foolish... you did not read my post did you? Or maybe you did read it and you just have a hard time with comprehension. I said none of the Pembrokes in the litter my daughter got her pup from was born tailess. All were born with tails and all had to have their tails docked to meet the breed standards. So obviously your statement, capitalized in point of fact, of Pembrokes being born without tails, is incorrect. Yes, through years of breeding, some Pembrokes are born without tails, but many are not.

Now, sit, stay and be quiet and stop behaving like a poorly trained pup.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

BooLette said:


> I have never seen a Pembroke born with a tail.



Here. Now you can say you've seen five.









(My Revy is the one on the far left, the one that isn't in line with the rest of her littermates.)


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Sizzledog, that is such a cute picture! I love Revy's coloring and that cute crooked white stripe down the middle of his head.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Now, sit, stay and be quiet and stop behaving like a poorly trained pup.


That's the kind of thing that gets you ignored. As well it should.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

That white stripe has almost completely closed up... thank goodness!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

lucidity said:


> Honestly, $700 is very cheap for a well bred dog. I'd get one in an INSTANT. Well bred dogs usually sell for 1000 or more, but you have lifelong breeder support, someone to return the dog to if something doesn't work out, and best of all, less health issues! Illnesses like luxating patellas and hip dysplasia are so rampant in poorly bred dogs (think BYBs and puppy mills). Why would one support a BYB or a puppy mill that does not care about the well being of their dogs and the ones that they sell?
> 
> While adopting a poorly bred dog from a shelter is a GOOD thing, buying a poorly bred dog from a bad breeder/puppy mill is another. Your money goes into fuelling the disgusting cycle of dogs being kept solely for their reproductive functions.
> 
> And OP, seriously, your racism is, well.. how shall I put it? It belongs in the 1800s. Your skin colour does not say ANYTHING about what kind of person you are, and neither does your wealth. In my experience, people who are less well off are usually more humble, and MUCH, MUCH nicer people than the ones who own Ferraris and live in mansions.


If anyone can get me an 8 week old well bred pap for $750....
PM ME, NOW!!!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

sizzledog said:


> I'd rather spend $700 up front than spend thousands on health and temperament problems of a BYB puppy. But that's called "planning ahead." If someone can't shell out $700 for a puppy, it makes me wonder what else along the line they can't afford.


I'm trying to think what kind of quality bred dog I can get for $700 and I can't think of one! You get what you pay for.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

XEPH, yes, you are right, I shouldn't have growled back at Boolette for her bad posting behavior. After all, I'm in the process of trying to teach my older poodle not to growl at Radar when he's behaving like a brat, so I really should be setting a better example for them.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

sizzledog said:


> That white stripe has almost completely closed up... thank goodness!


I liked the strip, but that picture there is even cuter!


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

InkedMarie said:


> I'm trying to think what kind of quality bred dog I can get for $700 and I can't think of one! You get what you pay for.


Uhhh.. is this snark? I was specifically talking about corgis.. more specifically, corgis in the midwest.

My Revy was $700... her parents are champions with performance titles, fully health tested. Her paternal grandsire is the top _producing _Pembroke sire of all time. Her maternal grandsire is the top_ winning_ Pembroke of all time.

I _think_ I got what I paid for... and more.

Now, $700 wouldn't get you _anywhere_ in Dobermans. Once you get into the $1500-$2000 range, then we'll talk about Dobermans.

But please don't insinuate you can't get a good corgi in the Midwest for only $700, because you can.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> XEPH, yes, you are right, I shouldn't have growled back at Boolette for her bad posting behavior.


Not helping your case really.

I will admit that I am paying pet price for my new show bitch, but there were extenuating circumstances and I would have otherwise paid $1200 for her.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> I'm trying to think what kind of quality bred dog I can get for $700 and I can't think of one! You get what you pay for.


It's definitely going to depend on what part of the country you are in, and what breed you are looking for, and the demand for that breed in you part of the country. What you can get here in Arkansas is going to cost much less then what you will be able to find in the Northeast or California.

Personally it doesn't matter where I live, I'll always go for the dog that needs rescued from somewhere, be they purebred or mutt and, thus far, I've gotten fine quality lifelong friends that way.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> It's definitely going to depend on what part of the country you are in, and what breed you are looking for, and the demand for that breed in you part of the country. What you can get here in Arkansas is going to cost much less then what you will be able to find in the Northeast or California.
> 
> Personally it doesn't matter where I live, I'll always go for the dog that needs rescued from somewhere, be they purebred or mutt and, thus far, I've gotten fine quality lifelong friends that way.


Not necessarily. Region has less to do with it than breed. Dobe breeders in Arkansas charge just as much as breeders on the coasts, generally.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Xeph - Not really trying to help my case, just stating fact.

Sizzledog - I just thought everything was cheaper in Arkansas. After all, we are the third poorest state in the Union.


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## -Radar- (Apr 13, 2010)

Of course, the internet is a great leveler of the playing field, if you can add the extra for having the dog shipped, weather permitting.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> Xeph - Not really trying to help my case, just stating fact.
> 
> Sizzledog - I just thought everything was cheaper in Arkansas. After all, we are the third poorest state in the Union.


Dogs from good breeders aren't a commodity.... health testing and finishing a dogs championship isn't cheaper just because it's done in or near a poorer state.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

-Radar- said:


> Of course, the internet is a great leveler of the playing field, if you can add the extra for having the dog shipped, weather permitting.


Not all good breeders will ship - in fact, most won't unless they know exactly where the dog is going.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

-Radar- said:


> My, you are a nasty little pup, aren't you? OK, I said I was bowwowing out of this thread since it had gotten way off track, but this one I just had to respond to.
> 
> Yes, I type fast, about 75 wpm, and at times my mind still gets ahead of my typing and I do make the occasional mistake that is missed in the proofreading. However, I'm sure your typing is not always perfect and, when it's not, I do hope someone isn't as rude about it as you are.
> 
> ...


So, your daughter is a BYB then?

Oh my , you are quite rude aren't you? Also, making yourself look foolish and immature yet again.

I beg to differ about me being nasty to you in my post. I simply stated the facts that you made yourself look foolish.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

sizzledog said:


> Here. Now you can say you've seen five.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that is amazing.

Thank you for posting this. 

I was very wrong. Look how adorable they are! Thanks Sizzle.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Just a blip!


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

-Radar- said:


> I do not consider my friend a backyard breeder. She was careful to find a good dog to breed with, she had the mother cared for by a vet all during her pregnancy, she had all the puppies and the mother checked soon after birth. *She followed all the rules of the AKC* and the puppies were all guarenteed by her and were sold with papers and a contract that they would be returned to her if anything didn't work out.


Just curious what rules AKC has in regards to breeding? I've been involved in the AKC dog world since I was ten, and other than breeding 2 purbreds of the same breed together and their frequently used sires program, I can't think of any rules that AKC has directly in relation to breeding your dogs. Can you please enlighten me as to which rules you were refering to and/or if any one can remind me what other rules they have that I have possibly forgoten.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

This thread has gotten out if hand. Some people need to learn some manners and quickly before the mod staff have to hand out lessons.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

sizzledog said:


> Uhhh.. is this snark? I was specifically talking about corgis.. more specifically, corgis in the midwest.


I'm sorry, it was not a snark, sorry if it came off that way! I should have said here in NH. Dogs seem to be costly up here. I know of a very good beagle breeder here who's dogs start at over $1000! I have heard that good dogs can be found down south for far less than what I can find them for up here.
Sorry again if I came off as snarky, it was not meant to be


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

This thread has gotten positively ridiculous.

All I asked was if he was full-blooded like the lady claimed.
If he is a PM puppy, I don't care. At least I am saving a life.
He just simply looks like a mix to me, I don't think he is a PM puppy. He just looks mixed.

I wouldn't have started this thread if I knew that a bunch of rude middle aged women and men would come here and yell at eachother instead of giving me a little bit of advice. I am only 20 but I don't even act like some of you do.

For those who did manage to be nice and help me, thanks a lot, but to those you didn't, just cut it out. I already have him and love him and plan to raise him as my own. I'll post some pictures soon because he is adorable.

Thanks again.
PS: Like some of you, I am NOT CONCERNED WITH BLOOD PURITY. Lord, it's like you guys hate everything that isn't AKC and show quality.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

-Radar- said:


> Personally it doesn't matter where I live, I'll always go for the dog that needs rescued from somewhere, be they purebred or mutt and, thus far, I've gotten fine quality lifelong friends that way.


I've done both and will continue to do so. I've gotten puppies and adolescents from breeders, purebreds from shelters and rescues.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

we arent talking about the akc or show quality...and i know im not middle aged

we're talking about genetics in the sense that it applies to health.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

libby said:


> PS: Like some of you, I am NOT CONCERNED WITH BLOOD PURITY. Lord, it's like you guys hate everything that isn't AKC and show quality.


Sorry Im not a middle aged man or women, just 24.
My dogs no way show quality, and he isnt registered any way.
And AKC or blood purity had nothing to do with it. its about supporting vad breeders. which seems you didnt do any way as you bought this off some one who got the pup as a present.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Tankstar said:


> Sorry Im not a middle aged man or women, just 24.
> My dogs no way show quality, and he isnt registered any way.
> And AKC or blood purity had nothing to do with it. its about supporting vad breeders. which seems you didnt do any way as you bought this off some one who got the pup as a present.


I really don't support buying a dog for 1000 dollars regardless.
I don't even know who or where the breeder is, or who they are.
It isn't like I am going to breed him, and honestly, I like him a lot.
I'm prepared to handle vet bills, whatever he needs...
I just wanted to give him a good home.
The lady said she was going to send him to the pound if he wasn't given a home.
I've raised a lot of dogs and this little guy is incredibly intelligent and learns very quickly.

I am all for helping businesses and stuff, but why buy a dog from some expensive breeder when you can go adopt a dog for a lot cheaper? Hell, I could go to a no-kill shelter here and get a dog for a LOT more than I paid for him.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

libby said:


> I am all for helping businesses and stuff, but why buy a dog from some expensive breeder when you can go adopt a dog for a lot cheaper?


Generally for health and soundness reasons.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

libby said:


> I really don't support buying a dog for 1000 dollars regardless.
> I don't even know who or where the breeder is, or who they are.
> It isn't like I am going to breed him, and honestly, I like him a lot.
> I'm prepared to handle vet bills, whatever he needs...
> ...


Because people want a specific breed for a specific reason. and buying from a "expensive" breeder gives people what they want. which could be a show dog, a flyball prospect, or a herding dog. Yes you could possibly find them (aside from the show dog) from a shelter. but what do you knwo of thei back ground? nothing. buying from a "expensive" breeder you know who parents, grand parents, Ggrand oarents are. where these dogs are from, who bred them, why they bred them. what health issue lay in their blood. what the temperments are like, health guarentees, a breeder you can always go to for support and so much more.

I for one would rather go the breeder route, buy a well bred dog and spend 100 bucks on it, then get a pound dog and spend 2500 in vet bills in a year or 2.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

CoverTune said:


> Generally for health and soundness reasons.


I understand that, and every dog deserves a good bloodline and genetic soundness.

I realize people do want full-blooded dog for that reason, but I personally think it's all for vanity. If the dog seems healthy and has no history of aggression, why not just adopt? They have feelings too, and every time I see a dog without a home it just rips my heart up. Same thing happens when I hear how somebody paid 1000 dollars for a designer pup instead of just adopting/helping a dog... but it's their money.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Also, to all you saying he's a "poor bloodline corgi", I don't think he is. He doesn't look full blooded and he is a LOT different from that photo. Lady used a false photo. He doesn't even have white cap feet or the white mark on his forehead- he does look more corgi-ish in real life but I am sure he isn't full bred.
He looks like a mix between a terrier of some sort. I'll post pictures shortly.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

libby said:


> I understand that, and every dog deserves a good bloodline and genetic soundness.
> 
> I realize people do want full-blooded dog for that reason, but I personally think it's all for vanity. If the dog seems healthy and has no history of aggression, why not just adopt?.


because it doesnt work like that. situations are NEVER that cut and dry.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Both of his ears have pricked up in the past day. I think he may have been fed poor food.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

libby said:


> This thread has gotten positively ridiculous.
> 
> All I asked was if he was full-blooded like the lady claimed.
> If he is a PM puppy, I don't care. At least I am saving a life.
> ...


Can't wait to see some wonderful pictures of your new little guy! He sounds like he is already making your heart happy.

Oh, we posted at the same time, and there he is! How old is he?

SOB


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

ps.

"poor" bloodlines do not make a bad dog. when you hear that phrase...translate it as "doesnt fit the standard". that's all it means. a dog culture variation on the typical meaning of sorts


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> because it doesnt work like that. situations are NEVER that cut and dry.


Another question:
How about everybody stops deviating from the question I had in the first post and stop yelling at me and each other for their choices?

Really wish google didn't give me this forum as the first link...


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Well, it's a discussion forum.. if nobody discussed anything it'd get pretty dull around here.


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## LolaNMe (Apr 20, 2010)

I can attest to poorly bred Corgi's having nasty temperaments. My fiance's family has one that they bought at a horse show on a whim. While she is wonderful with people, and our dogs, she's got a nasty streak that results in growling and acting like a total terror around other animals. She cannot have her nails trimmed, as she lashes out and will bite, she cannot handle vet trips as she sends herself into panic attacks, and just all around is tough to deal with. 

Save yourself heart ache and a broken wallet in the days to come, and find a Corgi through a reputable breeder.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

no one is yelling at you at all.

i was finding it an interesting conversation.

what you percieve as antagonistic may or may not be the case. the person on the other end of the screen isnt you and isnt someone you know...they may not talk in a way that you would be able to pick up on...they may be in thailand on a laptop riding a cow across a rice paddy and you're thinking they are your average american...you never know who you are talking to.

just a note of sorts..


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## meghf (Jul 12, 2009)

libby said:


> I understand that, and every dog deserves a good bloodline and genetic soundness.
> 
> I realize people do want full-blooded dog for that reason, but I personally think it's all for vanity. If the dog seems healthy and has no history of aggression, why not just adopt? They have feelings too, and every time I see a dog without a home it just rips my heart up. Same thing happens when I hear how somebody paid 1000 dollars for a designer pup instead of just adopting/helping a dog... but it's their money.


I have to go to a breeder for allergy reasons. I know there's no such thing as a true hypoallergenic breed but my allergies are totally fine with poodles. I need the guarantee that there's nothing else in the blood line as my allergies are not fine with "doodle" mixes The only true way to know that is by going to a responsible breeder. There are some breed specific standard poodle rescues out there so that is always an option but like a lot of breeds, standard poodles have health issues and without knowing if genetic testing was done and how sound the bloodlines are it's a true crapshoot if the dog will stay healthy. So that's my reasons behind going to a breeder, and I don't think that it's for vanity. I wish I could adopt a shelter mutt but I can't.

On another note, congrats on the new pup! I can't wait to see pics.

ETA: Just saw the pics! What a sweetheart.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

LolaNMe said:


> I can attest to poorly bred Corgi's having nasty temperaments. My fiance's family has one that they bought at a horse show on a whim. While she is wonderful with people, and our dogs, she's got a nasty streak that results in growling and acting like a total terror around other animals. She cannot have her nails trimmed, as she lashes out and will bite, she cannot handle vet trips as she sends herself into panic attacks, and just all around is tough to deal with.
> 
> Save yourself heart ache and a broken wallet in the days to come, and find a Corgi through a reputable breeder.


Once again, I am pretty sure he is not full bred. Back home I have a rescued PM dog who is exactly like that. Trust me, I understand what could happen. I just didn't want him to be euthanized.

And anyone who wants photos I posted them on the last page.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> no one is yelling at you at all.
> 
> i was finding it an interesting conversation.
> 
> ...


I understand that.
I just got back from out of town and I click on this thread and it's just... 
So much bickering

Everyone is able to discuss things and debate (this is a forum after all!), but I really don't want to be made out to be a bad person that knows nothing about dogs.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

libby said:


> I understand that, and every dog deserves a good bloodline and genetic soundness.
> 
> I realize people do want full-blooded dog for that reason, but I personally think it's all for vanity. If the dog seems healthy and has no history of aggression, why not just adopt? They have feelings too, and every time I see a dog without a home it just rips my heart up. Same thing happens when I hear how somebody paid 1000 dollars for a designer pup instead of just adopting/helping a dog... but it's their money.


I hope I don't come off as snarky or anything, But I hope you understand, A dog that "appears" healthy and has a nice temperament is PERFECT for a family pet, A family pet IMO is a dog who will get walks and play tennis ball and gets some lovin by the fireplace, know what I mean.

But A dog who "appears" healthy is not normally good enough for those of us who use dogs in competition and service work. A dog who looks healthy can start suffering structural problems if it is worked. "Looking" healthy and "being' healthy are two different things. And often only tough competition and work with show how weak a dog truly is (I had one of these dogs)

That is why it is important to people like me that I only buy dogs who's parents and grandparents and great-grandparents have all had x-rays and been tested in the field, it's important to me that my dogs ancestor's bodies were able with withstand the test of time and work. Because of all the money that has gone into proving the health and soundness of my dogs ancestors I usually have to pay a little more to help out the breeder. But mind you the breeder doesn't MAKE any money, all the money she gets goes back into her dogs.

I hope you don't feel attacked, we are not trying to talk down to you, I just want you to understand why some would be willing to pay more for a dog.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

it doesnt appear to be bickering to me. and you dont appear stupid if that's what you are worried about...you do seem a little confused but thats not a black mark on you if so.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

libby said:


> I really don't support buying a dog for 1000 dollars regardless.
> I don't even know who or where the breeder is, or who they are.
> It isn't like I am going to breed him, and honestly, I like him a lot.
> I'm prepared to handle vet bills, whatever he needs...
> ...


it's about more than vanity, it's about getting a dog who's family history you know. Getting a purebred from a reputable breeder means You know the dog will be sound in both body and temperament. Both my dobe and my bulldog are from great breeders, both were returned to the breeder due to unforseen circumstances by thier original purchasers (which is anothers perk of a good breeder. They don't allow thier dog to end up in shelters), I didn't pay the full price for a young puppy for either. Niether of my breeders would have ever thought to threaten to dump a dog if they didn't sell them.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> it doesnt appear to be bickering to me. and you dont appear stupid if that's what you are worried about...you do seem a little confused but thats not a black mark on you if so.


Hell, I'm a little... I mean *a lot* confused by this thread. 

Your new pup is very cute! I agree he looks like a mix but I can't put my finger on what exactly. Congrats on the new pup!


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> what you percieve as antagonistic may or may not be the case. the person on the other end of the screen isnt you and isnt someone you know...they may not talk in a way that you would be able to pick up on...they may be in thailand on a laptop riding a cow across a rice paddy and you're thinking they are your average american...you never know who you are talking to.


I only wanted to post because this really cracked me up! How did you know I was.....

SLOW DOWN Bessie!

Riding my Cow in Thailand?


OP--Your new pup is a cutie!! Would you start a new thread in the Picture Forum with pics? I would love to see more!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Hey! Us people in the desert on our camels and yaks would appreciate some love too!


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

Pull up your yak and jaw a while with me!


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Jod-dog said:


> I only wanted to post because this really cracked me up! How did you know I was.....
> 
> SLOW DOWN Bessie!
> 
> ...


Sure!
I'll post some in a bit


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## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hi...oh wow! ....what a cutie! He sure looks like a full blood Corgi to me -- I've attached a pic of a Corgi Pup for you -- (his ears should stand up soon)

Good Luck with him -- he's worth it!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Tankstar said:


> Sorry Im not a middle aged man or women, just 24.
> My dogs no way show quality, and he isnt registered any way.
> And AKC or blood purity had nothing to do with it. its about supporting vad breeders. which seems you didnt do any way as you bought this off some one who got the pup as a present.


My thoughts exactly (and I'm 26! ) Neither one of my papillons are show quality, one came from a hobby breeder, one came from a rescue. Auz came from a breeder who health tests, shows, works, and titles. He could be considered SV show quality, but probably not, since he's neutered  
Libby, I hope your pup works out for you! It might be easier to tell what he's mixed with once he's a little older.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Donna5503 said:


> Hi...oh wow! ....what a cutie! He sure looks like a full blood Corgi to me -- I've attached a pic of a Corgi Pup for you -- (his ears should stand up soon)
> 
> Good Luck with him -- he's worth it!



The lady gave me a false picture- he has fawn brown feet with patches of white, not white feet. As far as I know all full-blooded corgis have white socks.

But thank you !


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> no one is yelling at you at all.
> 
> i was finding it an interesting conversation.
> 
> ...


I'm going to steal that next time there's a misunderstanding at work...


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> My thoughts exactly (and I'm 26! ) Neither one of my papillons are show quality, one came from a hobby breeder, one came from a rescue. Auz came from a breeder who health tests, shows, works, and titles. He could be considered SV show quality, but probably not, since he's neutered
> Libby, I hope your pup works out for you! It might be easier to tell what he's mixed with once he's a little older.


Thank you!
He is a sweetheart!


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

libby said:


> I wouldn't have started this thread if I knew that a bunch of rude middle aged women and men would come here and yell at eachother instead of giving me a little bit of advice. I am only 20 but I don't even act like some of you do.
> 
> For those who did manage to be nice and help me, thanks a lot, but to those you didn't, just cut it out. I already have him and love him and plan to raise him as my own. I'll post some pictures soon because he is adorable.
> 
> ...


Nope, I'm not middle aged.... far from it! And it's not about "AKC" and "show quality" - out of the 5 dogs in my signature, three are purely pets. The other two are AKC pointed... and only one of those two is a competitive AKC show dog. If I had something against pets, I wouldn't have so many of them! 



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> we arent talking about the akc or show quality...and i know im not middle aged
> 
> we're talking about genetics in the sense that it applies to health.


Thank you! 



libby said:


> I realize people do want full-blooded dog for that reason, but I personally think it's all for vanity.


So.... it's vain for someone to want a puppy from health tested parents? It's vain to want a Doberman that will live past age three? It's vain to want a Doberman with a correct temperament? 



libby said:


> Also, to all you saying he's a "poor bloodline corgi", I don't think he is. He doesn't look full blooded and he is a LOT different from that photo. Lady used a false photo. He doesn't even have white cap feet or the white mark on his forehead- he does look more corgi-ish in real life but I am sure he isn't full bred.
> He looks like a mix between a terrier of some sort. I'll post pictures shortly.


This lady does not sound like anyone I'd ever get a dog from - so she lied to you, mislead you, and then manipulated you into getting the dog by threatening to dump it at the pound if you didn't take him?

Small pet peeve - I'm sure your puppy is full blooded. I doubt he's missing a pint. He may very well be a mixed breed, or a very poorly bred (yet purebred) corgis. I've seen my fair share of BYB corgis to know that almost anything with pointy ears and short legs can actually be a purebred corgi.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

LolaNMe said:


> I can attest to poorly bred Corgi's having nasty temperaments. My fiance's family has one that they bought at a horse show on a whim. While she is wonderful with people, and our dogs, she's got a nasty streak that results in growling and acting like a total terror around other animals. She cannot have her nails trimmed, as she lashes out and will bite, she cannot handle vet trips as she sends herself into panic attacks, and just all around is tough to deal with.
> 
> Save yourself heart ache and a broken wallet in the days to come, and find a Corgi through a reputable breeder.


While I can't say that I ask everyone where they got their corgi's, and research/trace their dogs bloodlines back to the stone age, I will say I've met some corgis who don't look "totally corgi-ish" that were total love bugs, and some corgi's who look "well bred" that were off the wall lunatics that I wouldn't have paid a dime for. 
I know we're talking corgis here, but I've met poorly bred AND well bred dogs of many breeds that were great, and others who were nuts. I don't consider too many heinz 57 shelter mutts as "well bred", but there are a lot of them out there with superb temperaments.
Even a well bred dog who is raised wrong is going to have some issues. Auz's sister was a great example. The guy of the family wanted a tough dog and his handling techniques made Bill Koehler look like Little Miss Muffet. The woman wanted to lead the dog around on a pink head halter and feed her treats, and train her with cookies, sunshine and farts. Obviously, the dog was out of control by 8 months old.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

libby said:


> The lady gave me a false picture- he has fawn brown feet with patches of white, not white feet. As far as I know all full-blooded corgis have white socks.
> 
> But thank you !


Nope, not always. Here's an interesting article on Pembroke color genetics:
http://www.pembrokecorgi.org/art_color.html


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Hey! Us people in the desert on our camels and yaks would appreciate some love too!


And the Canadians, riding through the snow on our polar bears, trying to type with mittens on!

Libby, most people here don't care about "blood purity," but about health and temperament. A lot of us have (or have had) mixed breed dogs and love them. But there's something to be said for having a very good idea of what you're going to get in a dog when it comes to size, health, and temperament, especially if you want a dog for work or intense sports.

My last dog was a mix, a big malamute/collie, and I loved that guy. But this time around, I wanted a husky-looking dog that I knew wouldn't grow to be more than 20 lbs, and I wanted one from good, healthy bloodlines. A good breeder was my only choice (literally... there's not a single klee kai on petfinder, and not one in rescue, either). Every person who adopts a dog has a different reason for doing so, and different qualities they're looking for in a dog. You seem to get offended when you think people are criticizing mixes... and then you turn around and say that anyone who buys a purebred does it out of vanity? If you want people to respect your choices, you should respect theirs as well.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

Crantastic said:


> And the Canadians, riding through the snow on our polar bears, trying to type with mittens on!
> 
> Libby, most people here don't care about "blood purity," but about health and temperament. A lot of us have (or have had) mixed breed dogs and love them. But there's something to be said for having a very good idea of what you're going to get in a dog when it comes to size, health, and temperament, especially if you want a dog for work or intense sports.
> 
> My last dog was a mix, a big malamute/collie, and I loved that guy. But this time around, I wanted a husky-looking dog that I knew wouldn't grow to be more than 20 lbs, and I wanted one from good, healthy bloodlines. A good breeder was my only choice (literally... there's not a single klee kai on petfinder, and not one in rescue, either). Every person who adopts a dog has a different reason for doing so, and different qualities they're looking for in a dog. You seem to get offended when you think people are criticizing mixes... and then you turn around and say that anyone who buys a purebred does it out of vanity? If you want people to respect your choices, you should respect theirs as well.


Totally off topic..... but I LOVE KLEE KAI!!!!! There are always a bunch of them at the UKC shows we attend.... I find myself thinking, "Ohh... they're not too big...I could TOTALLY hide one under my coat and walk out..."


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

sizzledog said:


> Totally off topic..... but I LOVE KLEE KAI!!!!! There are always a bunch of them at the UKC shows we attend.... I find myself thinking, "Ohh... they're not too big...I could TOTALLY hide one under my coat and walk out..."


It'll only be obvious when it's July and you have on a trench coat! LOL


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

sizzledog said:


> Nope, I'm not middle aged.... far from it! And it's not about "AKC" and "show quality" - out of the 5 dogs in my signature, three are purely pets. The other two are AKC pointed... and only one of those two is a competitive AKC show dog. If I had something against pets, I wouldn't have so many of them!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, I decided to get him. There are tons of pets sitting at the pound that I could go adopt that are about to be put down. Implying that I am of weak will is quite insulting- I am not easy to manipulate (by people at least).
I merely went to go see him, THEN chose to bring him home.
Yes, I realized he didn't look the same. But he is adorable all the same to me and I could care less if he was missing a leg (thank goodness he isn't but you get the point I hope).

He has a great home here. If health problems come up in his life, then he'll get all the medical attention he needs. I'm not saying it's good for him to have any problems and I hope that he doesn't, but I saved a cute little dog's life and I plan to keep him in my family as my companion no matter what happens. There were other people who wanted to take him home, so it wasn't a do or die situation. I fell in love with him the second he started licking me.

You have been pretty rude throughout this thread, for what reason, I don't know. You have some pretty strong opinions but I am not supporting puppy mills or backyard breeders. I have 5 rescue dogs at home, and I am fully aware of the problems these pups encounter. I am not inexperienced.

And I have stated many times that I don't care if he's full blood. My question was, "will he get large? his paws seem large".

And there are dogs waiting for people at no kill shelters, who may not look great but are sweet and just as loving and even tempered as a dog you may get from an expensive breeder. And these dogs have the added bonus of background checks and socialization (and usually being adults) so the handlers know their temperaments. I really beg of people to not judge those who try to assist the pets, some will just be bad eggs but they still deserve forever homes.

So yes, in my opinion, it is vain. But if you're wealthy enough to afford a lot of designer dogs good on you. You have your opinion and I have mine.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Im a mid twenties single mother, full time college student, blue collar employee and i rent.

and i have purebreds. purebred dogs do not mean someone is filthy stinkin rich. it does not make you vain. it doesnt mean anything if someone owns purebreds other than they own purebreds.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> And the Canadians, riding through the snow on our polar bears, trying to type with mittens on!
> 
> Libby, most people here don't care about "blood purity," but about health and temperament. A lot of us have (or have had) mixed breed dogs and love them. But there's something to be said for having a very good idea of what you're going to get in a dog when it comes to size, health, and temperament, especially if you want a dog for work or intense sports.
> 
> My last dog was a mix, a big malamute/collie, and I loved that guy. But this time around, I wanted a husky-looking dog that I knew wouldn't grow to be more than 20 lbs, and I wanted one from good, healthy bloodlines. A good breeder was my only choice (literally... there's not a single klee kai on petfinder, and not one in rescue, either). Every person who adopts a dog has a different reason for doing so, and different qualities they're looking for in a dog. You seem to get offended when you think people are criticizing mixes... and then you turn around and say that anyone who buys a purebred does it out of vanity? If you want people to respect your choices, you should respect theirs as well.


He is merely a companion dog, I don't need him for working. I'm a 20 year old engaged city slicker- what I'd need a working dog for I have no clue.

No, not anyone who buys a purebred does it solely out of vanity. Health reasons are a good example. But a ton of posts in this thread have been incredibly condescending and attacking to me, and I really wish the mods would handle it. Especially the ones saying he simply won't make a good pet and shouldn't be taken in by anybody.

My opinions are my opinions and doesn't really have to reflect yours or anyone else's. I just wish this thread didn't deviate into some big argument. 
I understand everyone, you can stop now. I already have him.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Im a mid twenties single mother, full time college student, blue collar employee and i rent.
> 
> and i have purebreds. purebred dogs do not mean someone is filthy stinkin rich. it does not make you vain. it doesnt mean anything if someone owns purebreds other than they own purebreds.


I don't wish to discuss anybody's personal lives in this, but I personally know that if I went out and bought a 1000 dollar dog, I'd be putting myself and my spouse and my home into a tight spot.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

libby said:


> So yes, in my opinion, it is vain. But if you're wealthy enough to afford a lot of designer dogs good on you. You have your opinion and I have mine.


What do you mean by "designer dogs"? BYBs love to use that term to refer to mutts like Malti-poos or anything -poos and market them as "hypoallergenic" (and clearly, not all of them are).

Honestly, I don't think anybody here was really trying to be rude, but maybe some came across as rude because of some things you said. Especially your racist comment and how you feel that people who are wealthy are more moral than people who are minorities or are less wealthy.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

libby said:


> Actually, I decided to get him. There are tons of pets sitting at the pound that I could go adopt that are about to be put down. Implying that I am of weak will is quite insulting- I am not easy to manipulate (by people at least).
> I merely went to go see him, THEN chose to bring him home.
> Yes, I realized he didn't look the same. But he is adorable all the same to me and I could care less if he was missing a leg (thank goodness he isn't but you get the point I hope).
> 
> ...



My dogs aren't designer dogs - they're purebreds from responsible breeders. Big difference. And my dogs' breeders have to charge enough to be able to afford what they do for the breed - if responsible breeders only charged a few hundred bucks, they'd go bankrupt and then they'd never be able to improve the breed.

I'm not wealthy - not by a long shot - but I know what I want in a dog, and my dogs are not just pets.... YES they are pets first and foremost, but they are also show and performance dogs in any way they can be. (And I do own rescue animals - just none of them happen to be dogs.  )

Responsibly bred puppies aren't wild cards.... if you know the pedigrees well enough, you can be fairly certain of the puppies' temperaments. If not, there would be no sense in breeding *for* correct temperament. And in my primary breed, temperament is not something I want to gamble on.

I haven't been rude. At most, I've been blunt. But they say that people end up a lot like their dogs - and both of the breeds I share my life with are no-nonsense, to the point, blunt breeds.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

Jod-dog said:


> It'll only be obvious when it's July and you have on a trench coat! LOL


Wait... how did you know our next UKC show is in July? *shifty eyes* *puts trenchcoat back in the closet*


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

libby said:


> I don't wish to discuss anybody's personal lives in this, but I personally know that if I went out and bought a 1000 dollar dog, I'd be putting myself and my spouse and my home into a tight spot.


a well bred dog from my breed averages 6 to 8 hundred, not a thousand...and with some breeders those prices are negotiable depending on what YOU are willing to do. another girl i know who is financially level with me, has a purebred, from a breeder for free on a co own contract. its not as simple as someone going out and picking up a dog for boatloads of money.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Libby, I think most of the comments were directed towards Radar who insisted on fighting everything anyone had to say about healthy breeder dogs. I have no problem with you getting the little guy, I just hope you post pics . As long as you aren't paying $500 for a byb dog it's fine, that's what is upsetting. 500 is alot to pay for a dog that's badly bred, you could adopt 5 shelter dogs with that.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

libby said:


> I don't wish to discuss anybody's personal lives in this, but I personally know that if I went out and bought a 1000 dollar dog, I'd be putting myself and my spouse and my home into a tight spot.


That's part of dog ownership - unexpected expenses. Since you said you have 5 rescue dogs (and now have a 6th) I hope you at least have an emergency credit card for the chance that one of your dogs becomes seriously ill... vet bills can be horribly expensive.

Heck - right after I brought Kaylee home, she somehow got a dislocated shoulder. Diagnosis, prescriptions and treatment totalled more than $700... all in the span of about two days. This was mere months after I spent more than $2000 in emergency vet bills on another one of my dogs.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

sizzledog said:


> Wait... how did you know our next UKC show is in July? *shifty eyes* *puts trenchcoat back in the closet*


Cause I had to put back my "new purse".... LOL 

Actually, I had no idea! Is it really in July? LOL That's funny!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

libby said:


> Actually, I decided to get him. There are tons of pets sitting at the pound that I could go adopt that are about to be put down. Implying that I am of weak will is quite insulting- I am not easy to manipulate (by people at least).
> I merely went to go see him, THEN chose to bring him home.
> Yes, I realized he didn't look the same. But he is adorable all the same to me and I could care less if he was missing a leg (thank goodness he isn't but you get the point I hope).
> 
> ...


This thread did end up in kind of a bickering course, but dog people are just looking out for other dog people. That and we are on the internet, so we can only get what you tell us. I think the main reason people were cautioning against this pup is health and behavioral problems that could arise. Not EVERY one is willing to take on a dog with unknown temperaments and health, so since it's the internet we have to assume they don't know if they don't indicate otherwise. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I would not keep that dog." or "Why do you pay for all of that" as a mom of four rescue dogs- two being mutts, two being "purebreds" from a BYB. My mutt Smalls is a money pit in terms of health issues, Magpie was but is doing fine now (knock on wood) and Jonas is a completely unsound dog who bit me in the face the week I adopted him. So, until explained otherwise, we don't know if you're the kind of person prepared for that, or the kind of person who just wants a puppy. 

I can also add that as someone who works in rescue and has acquired every pet I've ever owned through a rescue that I do support good breeders and may just purchase from one one day and don't feel it's out of vanity at all. No one should be guilted by the plight of shelter dogs or feel that is the only way to get a dog. And I DID want a Miniature Dachshund, so is it vain that I rescued the breed I wanted when there were lots of other breeds and mixed breeds right there with him? I don't feel so. I also will not feel vain or guilty when I find a breeder for an Irish Wolfhound. 
Also, I prefer people do research and find a good breeder when it comes to finding a dog that fits their life style. So many times do I see even in rescue people adopting dogs that in no way they can handle. There are also chances with even rescues that do temperament tests and the like on their dogs because there are surprises that come with dogs once they're settled in your home. Magpie lunged at a four year old and is aggressive towards children in general. Jonas was described as sweet and shy but gets along with all dogs. He is fearful, redirects aggression onto people and other dogs, has dog aggression issues in general, and will bite.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

libby said:


> I don't wish to discuss anybody's personal lives in this, but I personally know that if I went out and bought a 1000 dollar dog, I'd be putting myself and my spouse and my home into a tight spot.


I couldn't do that now, but there have been times I could have, and one time I did  As far as papillons go, I would love a well bred papillon some day, but for now my oversized, under bit ragamuffins will do. The GSD was a different story. No way was I going to bring an unknown adult german shepherd dog into a house with small dogs, cats, and an aging grandmother who can barely walk, let alone survive an over-friendly assault by a 90 pound face-licker. With my household, family, and lifestyle (and needing a dog who could do the job I am asking him to do, which is be 100% social) it made a lot more sense to bring in a well bred puppy and start from scratch, than to "try out" several rescue dogs in hopes of finding the right one for the job. Hope this makes sense


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

sizzledog said:


> That's part of dog ownership - unexpected expenses. Since you said you have 5 rescue dogs (and now have a 6th) I hope you at least have an emergency credit card for the chance that one of your dogs becomes seriously ill... vet bills can be horribly expensive.
> 
> Heck - right after I brought Kaylee home, she somehow got a dislocated shoulder. Diagnosis, prescriptions and treatment totalled more than $700... all in the span of about two days. This was mere months after I spent more than $2000 in emergency vet bills on another one of my dogs.


I have plenty of money to take care of my vet bills. My aunt takes care of the 5 dogs now since I moved and she can easily afford all their expenses. Our Lab recently has a dislocated knee and had to get surgery, so I completely understand all the vet bills and trouble


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

sizzledog said:


> Totally off topic..... but I LOVE KLEE KAI!!!!! There are always a bunch of them at the UKC shows we attend.... I find myself thinking, "Ohh... they're not too big...I could TOTALLY hide one under my coat and walk out..."


There is a little guy (I believe guy? I forget now!) on my block who is more often than not outside in the yard. You send the money, I send the dog.


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I couldn't do that now, but there have been times I could have, and one time I did  As far as papillons go, I would love a well bred papillon some day, but for now my oversized, under bit ragamuffins will do. The GSD was a different story. No way was I going to bring an unknown adult german shepherd dog into a house with small dogs, cats, and an aging grandmother who can barely walk, let alone survive an over-friendly assault by a 90 pound face-licker. With my household, family, and lifestyle (and needing a dog who could do the job I am asking him to do, which is be 100% social) it made a lot more sense to bring in a well bred puppy and start from scratch, than to "try out" several rescue dogs in hopes of finding the right one for the job. Hope this makes sense


Now, see, the things with rescue dogs that you get from a good no-kill shelter is that they have a huge profile on their temperament and the staff usually knows why they are there, and know them well enough to explain their personality.

It isn't like it's a shot in the dark when you get a dog from a good no kill shelter.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

Jod-dog said:


> Cause I had to put back my "new purse".... LOL
> 
> Actually, I had no idea! Is it really in July? LOL That's funny!


YEP! Heading up to the Twin Cities, it's my favorite UKC show of the year... Kaylee picked up a BIS there last summer.  The Kalee Kai entry is always fantastic, I'm really looking forward to seeing them again. There will be a lot to see.... usually there are 15-30 of them at the July shows!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

sizzledog said:


> That's part of dog ownership - unexpected expenses. Since you said you have 5 rescue dogs (and now have a 6th) I hope you at least have an emergency credit card for the chance that one of your dogs becomes seriously ill... vet bills can be horribly expensive.
> 
> Heck - right after I brought Kaylee home, she somehow got a dislocated shoulder. Diagnosis, prescriptions and treatment totalled more than $700... all in the span of about two days. This was mere months after I spent more than $2000 in emergency vet bills on another one of my dogs.


I'm not made of money either, but my cat that died in January racked up well over a thousand dollars in emergency vet bills (which, for the amount of care and medicines and procedures he had done, I consider/ed a BARGAIN). I didn't have that money at my disposal, but when (general) you take on an animal, you somehow find a way to manage if an unexpected emergency comes up. I ate a lot more campbells soup and a lot less steaks for weeks


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

sizzle needs one more corgi. the sig would be even then. 

anyways...good luck with your puppy op.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> There is a little guy (I believe guy? I forget now!) on my block who is more often than not outside in the yard. You send the money, I send the dog.


If I get the money there first, is it mine?? LOL


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Jod-dog said:


> If I get the money there first, is it mine?? LOL


First come first serve! I also need a surcharge fee- for the ninja outfit I'm going to need to get. 

I will snap a photo of him sometime (without looking like a weirdo if possible) I honestly thought he was a crazy colored Pap. You'll have to rename him though.. His name is Skunk.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> First come first serve! I also need a surcharge fee- for the ninja outfit I'm going to need to get.
> 
> I will snap a photo of him sometime (without looking like a weirdo if possible) I honestly thought he was a crazy colored Pap. You'll have to rename him though.. His name is Skunk.


I'll keep the name...for some reason, all my dog's names have started with S...I only named one of them! LOL My dog's were: Shy Girl, Shelby, currently we have Scrappy (whose former name was Sterlyn--and before that was Shaggy--LOL)...

I am destined to have S named dogs--Skunk fits fine! LOL

Oh, and just write a bill for all expenses, and while you're at it, take yourself out to a nice dinner!


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> First come first serve! I also need a surcharge fee- for the ninja outfit I'm going to need to get.
> 
> I will snap a photo of him sometime (without looking like a weirdo if possible) I honestly thought he was a crazy colored Pap. You'll have to rename him though.. His name is Skunk.


Okay you have to admit, Skunk is kind of an awesome name. Maybe not dog park material, but pretty awesome.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

I can hear myself now--calling him from a distance.

"SKUNK"


The whole park would be cleared out in no time! LOL


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Well, I can't completely be against the name- I do have Magpie after all.  But "MAGPIE!" doesn't quite grab the way "SKUNK!" would.

I wonder how dogs named Bear do.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

sizzledog said:


> YEP! Heading up to the Twin Cities, it's my favorite UKC show of the year... Kaylee picked up a BIS there last summer.  The Kalee Kai entry is always fantastic, I'm really looking forward to seeing them again. There will be a lot to see.... usually there are 15-30 of them at the July shows!


I'm jealous! The only klee kai I've ever met is my own, and he's only 11 weeks old. I wish there were UKC shows around here.

P.S. I'm also jealous of the gorgeous dobies. I considered getting a Doberman instead of a klee kai, but I couldn't have one in this house, and my papillon isn't fond of bigger dogs anyway. I love them, though, and I'll have one someday!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

libby;791173
So yes said:


> I hate to break it to you but there's a difference between a "designer dog" and a purebred dog. There's even differences in purebred dogs. Who says you have to be wealthy to afford a what you call designer dog? I'm not wealthy yet I have purchased purebred dogs. Our last dog came from the local humane society. She was "cheap" at $90 yet we paid over $1000 in the first six weeks at the vet. So much for the cheap dog eh?


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

libby said:


> Now, see, the things with rescue dogs that you get from a good no-kill shelter is that they have a huge profile on their temperament and the staff usually knows why they are there, and know them well enough to explain their personality.
> 
> It isn't like it's a shot in the dark when you get a dog from a good no kill shelter.


I'm not sure how you figure this. Not all shelters are no kill by the way but the local shelters, to me, don't seem to know much about their dogs, unless they're in foster care. My last dog was 11yrs old when we got here, all they knew is she was moved here from Texas, then surrendered. They knew her obvious medical issues and that she lived with a one year old dog. That's it. I worked at this shelter. Most owner surrenders come in with next to nothing for info and strays? How can you know much about them? You only know how the dog acts at the shelter, you don't know their true personality until they're in a home setting.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

libby said:


> You have been pretty rude throughout this thread, for what reason, I don't know. You have some pretty strong opinions but I am not supporting puppy mills or backyard breeders. I have 5 rescue dogs at home, and I am fully aware of the problems these pups encounter. I am not inexperienced.
> 
> 
> So yes, in my opinion, it is vain. But if you're wealthy enough to afford a lot of designer dogs good on you. You have your opinion and I have mine.


Actually Sizzles 'rudeness' wasn't directed toward you, but to the troll (Radar) that I banned. 

What do you mean by designer dogs? Designer dogs are overpriced mixed breeds, not purebred dogs. None of my purebreds cost me an arm and a legs and all but one are from reputable breeders as is my retired show cat, which I got for the price of his nueter (had I bought a kitten of his quality it would have cost nearly $1200.00). I know people that have gotten show dogs from impeccable lines for next to nothing. It's all about knowing what to look for and how to talk to people.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

_Now, see, the things with rescue dogs that you get from a good no-kill shelter is that they have a huge profile on their temperament and the staff usually knows why they are there, and know them well enough to explain their personality.

It isn't like it's a shot in the dark when you get a dog from a good no kill shelter._



InkedMarie said:


> I'm not sure how you figure this. Not all shelters are no kill by the way but the local shelters, to me, don't seem to know much about their dogs, unless they're in foster care. My last dog was 11yrs old when we got here, all they knew is she was moved here from Texas, then surrendered. They knew her obvious medical issues and that she lived with a one year old dog. That's it. I worked at this shelter. Most owner surrenders come in with next to nothing for info and strays? How can you know much about them? You only know how the dog acts at the shelter, you don't know their true personality until they're in a home setting.


So true, (and for reasons of my own I don't necessarily support a shelter just because they claim to be "no kill".) If they know the dogs' personality and temperament, it's wonderful! (But so do good breeders, and they aren't afraid to tell you their dogs' good points and bad points as well.) Foster homes are great, because it's easier to see the dogs' true colors in a home setting. How many times have I heard that someone picked the most quiet and calm dog at a shelter (cage, loud, stressful place) and once home the dog was NOT quiet and NOT calm. 
I will never say I don't support anyone who wants to adopt a shelter dog, I think it's excellent and wonderful to give a dog a second chance. But I also will never say "no one should breed anymore dogs til they all have homes", it's a dangerous way of thinking to me.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> Foster homes are great, because it's easier to see the dogs' true colors in a home setting. How many times have I heard that someone picked the most quiet and calm dog at a shelter (cage, loud, stressful place) and once home the dog was NOT quiet and NOT calm. I will never say I don't support anyone who wants to adopt a shelter dog, I think it's excellent and wonderful to give a dog a second chance.


Scrappy came from a foster home/shelter setting. He was in a rescue in a woman's house, but they didn't know much about him. He had been with her for 6 months!! She couldn't even tell me if he was housebroken. He was there with a few other dogs, and they had no idea about him. It's sad. He is a great dog with a wonderful personality--but I just couldn't BELIEVE that they didn't know anything about him!


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> What do you mean by designer dogs? Designer dogs are overpriced mixed breeds, not purebred dogs.


For perspective from some of us in our 50s, the first time I heard the term "designer dog" was in 1969 (living in Northern Ontario at that time), about a pampered and pricey purebred (in fact he was a Daschund). I do occasionally run across the term used the same way by people of my generation, however I understand in the late 80s the use of the phrase "designer dog" was transfered to first generation crosses and was popularized in that use. 

Those "out of the loop" might have missed the change to a more specific use.

SOB


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## libby (Apr 18, 2010)

spanielorbust said:


> For perspective from some of us in our 50s, the first time I heard the term "designer dog" was in 1969 (living in Northern Ontario at that time), about a pampered and pricey purebred (in fact he was a Daschund). I do occasionally run across the term used the same way by people of my generation, however I understand in the late 80s the use of the phrase "designer dog" was transfered to first generation crosses and was popularized in that use.
> 
> Those "out of the loop" might have missed the change to a more specific use.
> 
> SOB


I'm quite young but my older grandmother uses the term that way. The way I look at it is, "can I buy a handbag with that money?"


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

libby said:


> The way I look at it is, "can I buy a handbag with that money?"


Could you please elaborate on this. The way I'm reading it is that if the dog cost more then a handbag then it's not worth buying, which then concludes that a dog is not worth more than a purse. I'm sure this is not the meaning that you were going for, at least I hope it isn't. The most expensive purse I own is a knock off that I got in Rome for 20 euros (that's about $30 bucks). I've spent well more and well less then that for a dog. 

Personaly I feel if someone just wants a dog for the sake of having a dog and doesn't care about it's background or have any special requirements then they should adopt from a shelter or rescue. But if they special requirements, needds, or desires then they should do everything they can to ensure that they are geting a quality dog that can justify the price of not going to a shelter. But that's just my opinion.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

libby said:


> I'm quite young but my older grandmother uses the term that way. The way I look at it is, "can I buy a handbag with that money?"


 
LOL a handbag will be out of fashion in six months and won't give kisses when you're down, far better IMHO to get something that will be around the next 10-15 years.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> LOL a handbag will be out of fashion in six months and won't give kisses when you're down, far better IMHO to get something that will be around the next 10-15 years.


Get parrots: they do kiss you but they talk back to you as well LOL and you have to will them to your grandchildren because they live so long!


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

libby said:


> I'm quite young but my older grandmother uses the term that way. The way I look at it is, "can I buy a handbag with that money?"


I wouldn't spend 1$ on a handbag. I think they're boring.

Everyone's concept of 'value' is different.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Pai said:


> I wouldn't spend 1$ on a handbag. I think they're boring.
> 
> Everyone's concept of 'value' is different.


I only use LLBean handbags, which are pricey but it's one thing I spend money on. Footwear too as I have bad feet.
I'm tattooed...that's a value to me as they're forever!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I own one wallet.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Xeph said:


> I own one wallet.


Got me beat  My wallet is so old it's practically 1/2 of a wallet anymore. My purse is a wreck, the snap has come undone so I can't close it and the leather is starting to disintigrate


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

But the point is that you still have a purse! I do not! Anywhere! xD


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

InkedMarie said:


> Get parrots: they do kiss you but they talk back to you as well LOL and you have to will them to your grandchildren because they live so long!


 
Ugh, NO WAY!!! My Mom had parrots, they're too messy and loud. They also tend to bond far too heavily to one person.



Xeph said:


> I own one wallet.


 
LOL used to be all I carried was my H-D wallet in my back pocket like a guy, but since I've working at SeaWorld I've needed a purse to carry my snacks and sunscreen in, it's a Fossil and well worth what I paid for it (under $100.00 a the exchange).


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

With how much Smalls has cost over the last three years I could have had a thousand handbags. Not to mention a car. Don't miss 'em.


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