# Do Martingale collars really help with training?



## PrincessLPN (May 25, 2012)

Yes, this is about Odin again. I picked his trainer because she said that she used only positive methods (no choke chains or prong collars). She advised me to use a martingale collar to help with his training. I am not sure I understand how they work. They look like they tighten to correct the dog but isn't that the same idea as a choke chain? I am willing to try it if it might work. To be honest I have been tempted to strangle him many times (kidding). I just wanted to hear what others, with more experience, thought.


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

i dont know if they help with training, but i thought the purpose of a martingale collar is, to not let the dog slip out of its collar. if its on the dog correct, and closed all the way, it should not chocke the dog, just be tight enough so it can't slip out of it...thats my understanding of it...but maybe i'm wrong?!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

PrincessLPN said:


> Yes, this is about Odin again. I picked his trainer because she said that she used only positive methods (no choke chains or prong collars). She advised me to use a martingale collar to help with his training. I am not sure I understand how they work. They look like they tighten to correct the dog but isn't that the same idea as a choke chain? I am willing to try it if it might work. To be honest I have been tempted to strangle him many times (kidding). I just wanted to hear what others, with more experience, thought.


It is an adjustable collar that when adjusted properly tightens to circumference of the neck, a choke chain just keeps tightening.


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## PrincessLPN (May 25, 2012)

So how does it correct the dog any different then a regular collar?


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

PrincessLPN said:


> So how does it correct the dog any different then a regular collar?


I think I would go with the trainer's advice that is there and can read your dog. Cause she can show you in real life the difference between collars. Your original question was only about choke collar comparison. 

I use a Prong/Marti combo both snapped to one lead. This is not an advice thing it's more of a let you know many trainers have their own ways on doing things.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

Salina said:


> i dont know if they help with training, but i thought the purpose of a martingale collar is, to not let the dog slip out of its collar. if its on the dog correct, and closed all the way, it should not chocke the dog, just be tight enough so it can't slip out of it...thats my understanding of it...but maybe i'm wrong?!


This. I do not use any type of corrections at all in my training, however, both my dogs own and occasionally wear Martingale collars. Typically if we're going somewhere where I expect them to put up a fuss (the vet, the groomers, etc.) Especially for my older boy. I could tighten his regular collar so tight that he could no longer breathe, and he would still be able to back up out of it if he wanted to.

The collar should never be so tight that the two D-rings do not touch when the chain is pulled. So in my mind, no. They are not and should not be used for training purposes.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I don't think that other than a dog having more trouble backing out of a martingale collar that they are that much different than a straight collar. They should not tighten up any more than a regular collar if they are adjusted right but do not have to stay tight all the time like a regular collar does. What I do not like about them is that if you are going to let your dog off lead, I don't like the way they hang down and a dog could get hooked up in them. If they are just being used for on lead training, I really like them especially when doing Agility as they are easy to slip off over the dog's head without having to fumble around with a buckle. Dogs are not allowed to run in Agility with anything on.


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

If you are using positive training methods there is no need for any corrections. We prefer a martingale for Gally because of the wide neck of his breed he can back out of a regular collar. We did have a trainer once who recommended martingales for doing corrections but I wouldn't personally recommend it. Stick with positive methods and your dog will be excited about training.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

PrincessLPN said:


> So how does it correct the dog any different then a regular collar?


If your instructor is asking you to "correct" the dog with the collar, she's slacking off on training "positively" and I would question her about that. Because a collar pop is a collar pop.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> If your instructor is asking you to "correct" the dog with the collar, she's slacking off on training "positively" and I would question her about that. Because a collar pop is a collar pop.


+1 

Correction based trainers have figured out that people like positive training, so a lot of them ,rather than learning something new, are just calling correction based training "positive training". If the trainer can't train without a collar, they're not training positively. (Clickers don't require any collar to be worn at all.)

Now, if your dog slips collars on a regular basis, a martingale collar is a great idea to keep him safe. Even better would be a harness, no stress on the thyroid/trachea region and difficult to slip, depending upon what style you choose. For determined escape artists, people will even clip a harness and martingale together, so if he slips one, the other is still attached.


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## Analogdog (Apr 3, 2012)

A Martingale collar is designed for dogs that have wide necks compared to heads, like sighthounds. They are also used or misused as soft choke collars, which don't have a place in positive training. Personally I believe that the best think to clip a leash to is a harness.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm not sure I agree with Analogdog that they're for dogs with certain head or neck shapes. I've used martingales for any dog that I don't want off leash. For me, it's a security blanket.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I use one for Abbylynn on special occasions such as the vets or to just look pristine when out and about in public ... not in the woods or hikes. All my dogs know how to back out of their collars and harnesses. I feel much more secure with having my Martingale on my 65 pound dog ... I have no surprises this way and she remains safe. The dogs use fairly tight nylon collars when we go out and about hiking and "H" harnesses.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

I almost solely own martingales. Blaze walks much nice on a martin then a regular. Yes they are also known as soft chokes. Since they do tighten up, how much depends on how you have fitted it.


InkedMarie said:


> I'm not sure I agree with Analogdog that they're for dogs with certain head or neck shapes. I've used martingales for any dog that I don't want off leash. For me, it's a security blanket.


 whats not to believe? the orignal purpose was for sight hound types thats heads are smaller then their necks. So no slipping out of collars for them


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Tankstar said:


> I almost solely own martingales. Blaze walks much nice on a martin then a regular. Yes they are also known as soft chokes. Since they do tighten up, how much depends on how you have fitted it.
> 
> whats not to believe? the orignal purpose was for sight hound types thats heads are smaller then their necks. So no slipping out of collars for them


<shrug>. I never heard they had an original purpose. I thought they were for an owner that wanted something more than just a regular collar without choking.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

I use cloth martingales for both Loki and Livia.. just because I like the size of them and they are pretty. LOL


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

i use martingale collars only for dog school sessions. but just because i want to make sure, she does not slip out of it and because i do not like to have the collar so tight on her. i never used it as a choke collar.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

PrincessLPN said:


> Yes, this is about Odin again. I picked his trainer because she said that she used only positive methods (no choke chains or prong collars). She advised me to use a martingale collar to help with his training. I am not sure I understand how they work. They look like they tighten to correct the dog but isn't that the same idea as a choke chain? I am willing to try it if it might work. To be honest I have been tempted to strangle him many times (kidding). I just wanted to hear what others, with more experience, thought.


The martingale collar is not a "choke collar". A properly fitted martingale - in and of itself - will not choke any more than a plain buckle collar will. It is made to have a limited slip. 

Owners of sighthounds and other dogs with similar head-neck configuration use a martingale because those dogs can easily slip out of a regular buckle collar. Their head is smaller than their neck, so their collar diameter must get _smaller_ as it reaches the head. 

Of course, you can use that style of collar with any dog.

Depending on the dog and the handler, the collar may be fitted to about the same diameter on the neck as a buckle collar would be, or the collar may hangs somewhat loose on the neck in ordinary circumstances - a bit looser than a buckle collar. In any case, it will only tighten to a defined diameter that doesn't choke the dog. 

There are several different types - all-fabric types, all chain types, and combo chain-fabric types. We use either a chain/fabric-type martingale collar, or an all fabric type, as our everyday collar because those are the ones that we're comfortable with using for that purpose. 

Whether the collar will function as a "correction collar" - a term I dislike even it it is in common use - depends to a large extent on what you mean by that term. I can only speak for myself in that respect. For the ONE purpose that we use a "correction collar" as such - and the ONLY purpose, by the way, that we use one - it will NOT function properly. 

Some people use a martingale as a "control collar" because they think it provides more control than a buckle collar, without choking the dog as an actual choke collar would or pinching like a pinch collar. Again, that depends on what sort of "control" you as a handler are working at and to some extent on your dog's personality. Maybe that is what your trainer is getting at. 

As you've seen from some of the responses, some people don't like the concept of a "control collar". However, EVERY collar functions as a "control collar" at least to some extent. As soon as you put a collar and leash on a dog, you are indicating "control". It all depends on the extent. Our dogs do LLW with a martingale because they have been trained fot LLW, not because of the collar. On the other hand, I've seen dogs being choked by their handlers with a flat buckle collar - not a situation I am comfortable with or would encourage. It's not the collar that is at fault, it's the way it is used.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Poly said:


> The martingale collar is not a "choke collar". A properly fitted martingale - in and of itself - will not choke any more than a plain buckle collar will. It is made to have a limited slip.
> 
> .


a collar check or pop is a check or a pop if performed on a choke, a prong, a martingale or a flat collar. Positive reinforcement based training is more dependent on how equipment is used than which equipment is used.


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## Analogdog (Apr 3, 2012)

Here is the link to Kikopup's (Emily Larlham) Blog, http://www.clicktreat.blogspot.com/ , the current post is about the dangers of collars on dogs, and why we should think about using harnesses with them instead. I have changed to using harnesses for walking. They have collars, but we don't attach leashes to them. I just feel it necessary to put this out there in any discussion of collars.


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