# any educated guesses on what ziggy is?



## mikeely09 (Dec 7, 2010)

my roommates and I have been debating over this since we got her so I figured I'd see if anyone on here had a good guess as to what kind of dog she is.


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

mikeely09 said:


> my roommates and I have been debating over this since we got her so I figured I'd see if anyone on here had a good guess as to what kind of dog she is.
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Could you provide more details? Where she was found, or where she was likely from originally? Her weight? Her temperament? Habits? Quirks?
Shooting from the hip, she looks around 50 lbs? Blue eyes..could be Husky or even wolfdog in her..again, depending on where she was found and her temperament, etc.
She has some brindle on her coat, which could mean some pit or (rarely) Mountain Cur (if she was found in the rural southern U.S., Mountain Cur is more likely). If she's a northerner, she looks like she could be a little sled dog.
I'd like to give a more educated guess once the details are provided.


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## mikeely09 (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm not sure where she's from originally we got her from my friend's neighbor who was about to get rid of her but they didn't say anything about what she is. At the vet not too long ago I think they weighed her at about 35 lbs, she's very thin around her waist. You can't see it very well in the picture but her fur is actually pretty long and she's shedding everywhere right now.. She's very loving and nice to everyone and any dog she comes by and doesn't cause too much trouble unless she's alone for a long time and in that case she has a bad habit of getting into the trash. One thing she does that I find somewhat strange is that she loves to lay down in our fireplace or any cave-like area if she's not sitting on the couch with us. She's real quick and can leap farther than i would ever expect a dog her size to.
Hope this helps!


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Husky and border collie maybe (size guesses)?
She's very pretty and looks like a gentle soul. Lucky you and lucky her.


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Husky and border collie maybe (size guesses)?


Good guesses. A lot of Border Collies have that 'lanky' look.
However, given her weight (35 lbs.) I'm thinking a Husky-Border Collie would yield a little bit bigger dog.
Her strong den instinct (like curling up in a fireplace) is a very wolf-ish thing. It's also a terrier thing.
You've given me something to think about. I'll mull it over, see if anything comes out.


> She's very pretty and looks like a gentle soul. Lucky you and lucky her.


Agreed!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Female Sibes generally weigh only 35-50 pounds, so if you crossed a Sibe with a Border Collie, you could definitely end up with a 35lb dog. Also, dogs from not-so-great breeders, which her parents probably were, are often under (or over)-sized. She doesn't look BC to me, though, but I'm no expert.

Also, wolves don't have blue eyes, so I have no idea how blue eyes could signify a wolfdog like Misfit suggests. She doesn't look at all wolfy (we have some wolfdog experts here who could explain why much better than I can; I'll leave it up to them). In my opinion, she mostly just looks like a badly-bred (but still pretty!) husky... although I'm not sure if she'd need something else in her to get that coat color. I give up when it comes to trying to figure out husky genetics. 

(Where do you live? Alaskan Husky could be a possibility, maybe? I'm not sure how big they usually are.)


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

I would vote border collie / Australian shepherd mix


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

Here's a wolfdog picture that reminds me of Ziggy:








My wife rescued a Border Collie in 2008; she was in the ~35lb. range, but I couldn't help think she was a mix because of her small size. You bring up an excellent point that 'bad' breeding could very well be the cause.

In my experience, 'wolfdogs' are often the progeny of a wolf and a Husky, and blue eyes are common and I guess maybe 'desirable' for some. 
I'm not an expert in anything, but she looks lanky and wolfy to me.


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## CrazyDog (Oct 16, 2007)

From these photo's your dog looks mostly if not all Husky. Do you have any photo's of her standing? Siberian Husky's come in many different colors. Your girl looks like what they call a "wolf grey" colored Husky. Here is a picture of a purebred Siberian Husky that is wolf grey colored (note: it is just a color of the breed.....there is no Wolf in them.) 
http://www.huskycolors.com/images/wolf/WolfLexa.jpg

Your girl is 35lbs which is on the low side but still in weight range for bitches in the breed. Her head shape looks about right for the breed. She also has blue eyes which is a husky trait. Wolf and Wolf-dog mixes NEVER have blue eyes! It is not in there genes. The characteristic temperament of the Siberian Husky is friendly and gentle, but also alert and outgoing. The AKC breed standard for the husky calls for the breed to be fast, quick and light on his feet. The gait is smooth and effortless. It sounds like what you described your dog to be like. Also, dogs are denning animals and all breeds may naturally show some type of den instinct. I would say your dog looks all dog and does not have any wolf in her as suggested.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

yea with all the wolf threads and talk floating around ive seen a lot of photos and she dosen't really match any qualities of a wolf dog. I still think she has a more border collie look to her tho


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

~35lbs is normal for a BC, especially a female. 

There's MUCH more to wolfdogs than lankiness (besides, that dog's not even standing in those pics, so we can't see how lanky she is). Hopefully one of our resident experts sees this thread soon.

In the meantime, this PDF link may be helpful. It illustrates the differences between wolves and dogs.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

oh allegations of wolf dogs don't go unresponded to around here lol


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

A wolfdog is likely going to weigh a bit more than 35 lbs..

I say Husky mix. BC isn't a bad guess, either.


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

Someone should definitely PM a wolfdog expert to confirm. This is getting serious.


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## mikeely09 (Dec 7, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> There's MUCH more to wolfdogs than lankiness (besides, that dog's not even standing in those pics, so we can't see how lanky she is). Hopefully one of our resident experts sees this thread soon.


Yeah, she's kind of a pain to get to stand still for a picture, this is the best I could do. She is lanky enough where I can fit both my hands around the skinniest part of her pretty easily










Crantastic said:


> (Where do you live? Alaskan Husky could be a possibility, maybe? I'm not sure how big they usually are.)


I don't know either, but I live in Ohio


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Misfit138 said:


> Someone should definitely PM a wolfdog expert to confirm. This is getting serious.


Haha, I don't know if "serious" is the word I'd use, but I let a couple of people know the thread's here anyway. I'd think the dog's size and her blue eyes alone would rule out wolfdog, though. The head shape, muzzle shape and length, ear size and earset, feet, etc. are also not wolflike.


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## CrazyDog (Oct 16, 2007)

Misfit138 said:


> Here's a wolfdog picture that reminds me of Ziggy:


How can you say the OP's dog looks like this picture?  To me they look completely different. The shape of the head is way different. The length of the muzzle is way different... not to mention the OP's dog has a stop and a forehead as opposed to the wolf-dog in the picture has a flatter forehead and the stop is slightly pronounced. The ears on the wolf dog are way bigger and the eye shape is different. The hair length and color looks different. The feet look different. And these are just some of the differences I see from these pictures.



Misfit138 said:


> In my experience, 'wolfdogs' are often the progeny of a wolf and a Husky, and blue eyes are common and I guess maybe 'desirable' for some.
> I'm not an expert in anything, but she looks lanky and wolfy to me.


Also, how can you say the OP's dog looks lanky from these pictures.... she is not even standing. To me she looks like a typical husky lying down. And yes, Wolf-dogs are sometimes part wolf and part husky but whom ever told you that blue eyes are common and desirable knows nothing about Wolf-dogs. From what little I know about Wolves is that it is genetically impossible to have blue eyes in a wolf. You very rarely see blue eyes pop up in Wolf-dogs unless the Wolf-dog is very low to no content. Often times people lie and sell Husky's as Wolf-dogs when they have no Wolf in them at all. I'm sure someone with more experience in Wolf-dogs will chime in.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

I'd say a husky mix of some sort, not wolfdog though. lol

As for the size thing, my girl Upendi is a husky/german shepherd mix and topped out at a slender 38-40 lbs. She's built very lean like Ziggy.


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## madelynsprite (Dec 7, 2010)

almost looks like a min/pin( is that how its spelled) and a lab of somesort. her strange coloring means some misegenation. my first thought was also some sort of German shepherd in there too.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

A minpin/lab would have floppy ears (miniature pinscher ears are cropped to make them stand upright). But the size, coloring, coat type, and general look are all wrong for either of those, anyway.


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

mikeely09 said:


> ..I live in Ohio


 There's this Ohio guy who got arrested last year for his wolfdogs getting into trouble.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

His dogs look like German Shepherd/huskies, heh. I read another article that said they were listed as "GSD mixes" on their vet records and no genetic tests had been done to prove they were wolfdogs.

Ah, another article:



> Earlier this week, the Columbus Board of Health ordered Wellen to euthanize or move two dogs that
> city authorities thought were part wolf, primarily because Wellen had said as much.
> Others involved in wolf rescue have disputed that the dogs are hybrids based on their appearance and
> say they likely are German shepherd mixes.


Many dogs are identified as "wolf hybrids" when they are not.


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

Maybe we ask for pictures of Ziggy's hind toes and note the presence/absence of any dew claws as a hint.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

What would that prove besides the fact that she's a dog? Wolves don't have dewclaws on their hind legs, but rear dewclaws are common in dogs.

(I'm beginning to think you're just trying to mess with people and don't think this dog is a wolfdog at all. )


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

I understand dew claws are somewhat uncommon on wolf-dog mixes. My grampa had a wolfdog named 'Wolf' (he called him a hybrid) and he had no dew claws.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Right, pure wolves don't have rear dewclaws. Lots of dogs don't, either, though. Some hybrids will have them, and some won't... just as some pure dogs will have them and some won't (even in the same litter you can get some husky pups with rear dews and some without). That wouldn't prove anything.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Oh hey, you're in Ohio too! I'm in NE Ohio, how about you? I can tell you with certainty that your girl is NOT a wolfdog. I work with wolfdogs on a daily basis and I don't see any signs of wolf in your girl. She is MUCH too small, and her head shape, coloration and build are not wolfy at all. It's also very rare for a wolfdog to have blue eyes. There are many signs that can indicate wolf content but I don't see them at all here.

What I do think she is, is a racing Husky mix. We have a breeder of Seppala Siberians here in Ohio that breeds dogs very similar in type to your girl. I don't know where the brindle part came from, but other than that, her size, color, and build is a dead ringer for a racing Siberian or Alaskan Husky. In fact, if I were you - with all this snow we're getting, I'd hook her up to a kid's sled and see how she does!  I'd bet that she is a racing Husky mix for sure.

For comparison, here are some racing huskies vs. wolfdogs.

Wolfdog (85 lbs, 31" at shoulder)









Wolfdog (70 lbs, 28" at shoulder)










Alaskan Husky (45 lbs, 24" at shoulder)










Alaskan Husky (45 lbs approx, 24" at shoulder approx, owned by my friend Shannon Miller)










Seppala Siberians (found online)





































(more pics coming)



Misfit138 said:


> There's this Ohio guy who got arrested last year for his wolfdogs getting into trouble.


Those dogs were NOT wolfdogs. I know someone who worked on that case and they were not woofers, they were GSD mixes.



Misfit138 said:


> Maybe we ask for pictures of Ziggy's hind toes and note the presence/absence of any dew claws as a hint.


That would prove absolutely nothing... I have 8 dogs here, and only one is a verifiable wolfdog. Only ONE of those other 7 dogs have rear dewclaws.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for weighing in, nekomi! And yay, pictures.


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> Thanks for weighing in, nekomi! And yay, pictures.


Yes, thank you, and what beautiful creatures.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

nekomi said:


> Oh hey, you're in Ohio too! I'm in NE Ohio, how about you? I can tell you with certainty that your girl is NOT a wolfdog. I work with wolfdogs on a daily basis and I don't see any signs of wolf in your girl. She is MUCH too small, and her head shape, coloration and build are not wolfy at all. It's also very rare for a wolfdog to have blue eyes. There are many signs that can indicate wolf content but I don't see them at all here.
> 
> What I do think she is, is a racing Husky mix. We have a breeder of Seppala Siberians here in Ohio that breeds dogs very similar in type to your girl. I don't know where the brindle part came from, but other than that, her size, color, and build is a dead ringer for a racing Siberian or Alaskan Husky. In fact, if I were you - with all this snow we're getting, I'd hook her up to a kid's sled and see how she does!  I'd bet that she is a racing Husky mix for sure.


I don't have anything to add (other than the fact that I don't see bc, german shepherd, min pin, or lab) but I did have a question for you Nekomi, on the subject of the brindle. 

I think I heard/read somewhere that greyhounds were bred into racing sled/northern type dogs somewhere along the lines and that is why some will/can have brindle coats. Any merit?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Hi Nekomi! Long time no see!
I love the pictures...

I too understand that the Alaskan huskies have used sighthounds as well as pointers in the mix...

Anway, just wanted to comment that some posts here have been worded a bit confrontationally towards a new member of the forum...and he has been quite polite (even if in error with this ideas)...is it that hard to be nice about it?


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## CrazyDog (Oct 16, 2007)

Cracker said:


> Hi Nekomi! Long time no see!
> I love the pictures...
> 
> I too understand that the Alaskan huskies have used sighthounds as well as pointers in the mix...
> ...


I too would like to know about the sighthound and the brindle coloring in the husky! 

Also, Cracker if you are referring to me.... I'm sorry to all if I sounded harsh.... I wasn't meaning to be! :redface: I guess I just get a little heated as I work at a shelter and many people claim they are surrendering "Wolf-dogs". Anything that looks anything like a wolf must be a wolf right? Not really! But these alleged Wolf-dogs always get put down immediately. 99% of them don't even look Wolfy or have any real Wolf in them. The owners say they are wolf so they get put down. We have put down many nice dogs.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

DJEtzel said:


> I don't have anything to add (other than the fact that I don't see bc, german shepherd, min pin, or lab) but I did have a question for you Nekomi, on the subject of the brindle.
> 
> I think I heard/read somewhere that greyhounds were bred into racing sled/northern type dogs somewhere along the lines and that is why some will/can have brindle coats. Any merit?


That's absolutely true. Brindle occurs, but very rarely; and not in Seppala Siberians (racing Sibes). It can occur in Alaskan Huskies, which are a "mutt" husky with other breeds in their background, including Greyhound. Based on the fact that the OP is in Ohio, and we're not exactly a sled dog mecca, I'm guessing that she is a mix of Seppala Sibe (since we have a breeder or two working with them here) and something brindle.  Of course, the dog could also be an Alaskan Husky transplant from somewhere else... but based on the story of how he got the dog, I doubt it, since working Alaskans rarely end up in pet homes like that.



Cracker said:


> Hi Nekomi! Long time no see!
> I love the pictures...
> 
> I too understand that the Alaskan huskies have used sighthounds as well as pointers in the mix...
> ...


If I came across confrontationally, I sincerely apologize to the OP and to Misfit... I was simply in a rush when posting and didn't have much time, so I posted short, matter-of-fact replies.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

nekomi said:


> That's absolutely true. Brindle occurs, but very rarely; and not in Seppala Siberians (racing Sibes). It can occur in Alaskan Huskies, which are a "mutt" husky with other breeds in their background, including Greyhound. Based on the fact that the OP is in Ohio, and we're not exactly a sled dog mecca, I'm guessing that she is a mix of Seppala Sibe (since we have a breeder or two working with them here) and something brindle.  Of course, the dog could also be an Alaskan Husky transplant from somewhere else... but based on the story of how he got the dog, I doubt it, since working Alaskans rarely end up in pet homes like that.


Your reasoning makes sense. I was just making sure what I heard was right, thanks for confirming.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Where is everyone seeing border collie? lol I totally don't see it at ALL. 

I see a husky mix.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> Where is everyone seeing border collie? lol I totally don't see it at ALL.
> 
> I see a husky mix.


Haha, I didn't either... I felt kind of dumb, like I was missing out on the 3d glasses or something.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

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There was something about the picture in the top right corner, ear set, expression that reminded me of some BC's I know. That's where I thought maybe some BC.


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## Misfit138 (Dec 6, 2010)

nekomi said:


> That's absolutely true. Brindle occurs, but very rarely; and not in Seppala Siberians (racing Sibes). It can occur in Alaskan Huskies, which are a "mutt" husky with other breeds in their background, including Greyhound. Based on the fact that the OP is in Ohio, and we're not exactly a sled dog mecca..


Part of the blame for the controversy in this thread is my ignorance; I had no idea that 'wolfdog' was a hot-button issue, and for this I sincerely apologize. Please excuse my ignorance.
I'd like to mention couple things just so I am not perceived as a complete crackpot (and perhaps I was gently teasing in return by pushing the issue of wolfyness, just a little)

Our reasoning (aside from wolfyness) is quite similar; I too thought it possible that Ziggy was of Husky and possibly sled dog ilk (if she was a northerner) as I mentioned in my first post. Also, I am not an expert in anything and would never claim to be. I have no degree nor formal training. I'm just a guy who loves dogs and who has rescued and found loving homes for many, many great dogs along with my wife these past 16 years of marriage. One other thing I need to mention is that I considered myself pretty good at guessing breeds over the years. 
I've had some exposure to a real wolfdog in my childhood and this, perhaps combined with some sort of cultural emergence of interest in wolfdogs, might have given me some 'wolfdog on the brain'-- but it was not my intention to stir up any contention. In fact, if you read my first post, I mentioned this in passing, from a hypothetical standpoint as in, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if the gentle creature you found had some wolfyness to her?'...


> If I came across confrontationally, I sincerely apologize to the OP and to Misfit... I was simply in a rush when posting and didn't have much time, so I posted short, matter-of-fact replies.


No apology necessary, but I do appreciate the gesture. Like everything else on the internet, it is always too easy to let words spill out, without the added benefits that a face-to-face conversation would allow for, like natural tact, voice inflection and eye contact. I am guilty of the same in my posts.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Misfit, I think you will be a good addition to the forums. There is so much great info here.

And to the two posters who apologized for their posts...interesting enough, it wasn't YOU that I was referring to. LOL


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh, it was probably me, huh? I was having fun with this thread, though, and Misfit obviously recognized that, as he admits that he "was gently teasing" as well and that no apology is necessary. It seems he can handle his own debates. Unless a thread is getting really heated, which this one was not, I don't see the need for anyone to jump in and start scolding others. (In fact, I rarely, if ever, see the need for someone to jump in and start scolding others.) 

Anyway, I'm glad nekomi came along and let us know more about wolfdogs. I learn more every day I'm here, and that's great.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

I have to agree, definately not a wolfdog


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> Oh, it was probably me, huh? I was having fun with this thread, though, and Misfit obviously recognized that, as he admits that he "was gently teasing" as well and that no apology is necessary. It seems he can handle his own debates. Unless a thread is getting really heated, which this one was not, I don't see the need for anyone to jump in and start scolding others. (In fact, I rarely, if ever, see the need for someone to jump in and start scolding others.)
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad nekomi came along and let us know more about wolfdogs. I learn more every day I'm here, and that's great.


It wasn't meant to be a scolding, just a mention that HOW we say things sometimes comes across as confrontational, even if it is not meant to be. I know as a newbie that would have made me uncomfortable and that is why I mentioned it. I prefer to say something BEFORE it gets heated because by then it's often too late the save the conversation/discussion.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I do have a blunt writing style, but I'll save you some trouble and let you know right now that I never resort to name-calling or other personal attacks, and I never lose my temper on messageboards. In the future, if you feel the need to call me out because of something you think _might_ happen, I'd appreciate it if you'd do so in a PM rather than being all, "Someone here is being a bit of a jerk, and I don't want to mention any names, but it's not you or you." I find that a bit insulting.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I'm sorry Crantastic. That was not my intent at all. I guess it's true the road to hell is paved with good intentions. My apologies.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

It's okay. Thank you.


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## wolfpup101 (Mar 26, 2012)

mikeely09 said:


> my roommates and I have been debating over this since we got her so I figured I'd see if anyone on here had a good guess as to what kind of dog she is.
> View attachment 22679
> View attachment 22678
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> ...


i'd say she is probably a husky with a german shepard mix


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