# Question for the proffesional Groomers



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

I was just wondering how many dogs you groom on average, and how you deal with difficult dogs. I've been working as a dog bather at a grooming salon for the last six months or so, and I have some concerns about the place I'm working at. The groomer I work for averages 20 - 22 dogs a day, and this seems like quite a high number to me. She is also very forceful with the dogs. I have seen dogs pinned, alpha rolled, scruffed, and even struck on numerous occasions. They also advise the owners of these dogs to alpha roll and scruff their dogs to "put them in their place". Granted these dogs are being difficult (fighting, trying to bite, etc.), but it seems excessively harsh to me. Is this normal for a grooming salon? Am I just being too sensitive? 

I want to train to be a groomer, and this groomer has promised to train me, but she doesn't have time right now, because she's too busy and hasn't managed to keep a second bather on staff to free me up to learn any grooming techniques. She's been promising to start training me to finish double coats for almost 2 months now with no results. I'm also having doubts as to whether this is the right career for me if it means being that harsh with the dogs. I'd really appreciate any advice you can give me.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

You don't have to be rough and tough with the dogs, to be able to groom them.

Patience goes a LONG LONG LONG way!! 

I just did a couple of my favorite clients today, and one of them is an old Wire Fox; well when they first brought her to me, back in late spring, they said "do what you can...we like the FT trim, but if you can't, don't worry about it"...Well the dog was snippity for brushing, but I just keep working, and if I have to I simply snap my front clip onto the grooming loop, to keep her from swinging around and grabbing me (the extra lead, keeps her facing forward, as well as keeps her from backing off the table). 

I don't have to get all crazy and loud to get this dog groomed (and others like her)...and the owners are extremely appreciative; she made the comment today, "you should have seen her before...she would always be so chopped up; now she looks beautiful!!!" That feels amazing, to get a comment like that...and all because you just work with the dog, and keep your own cool even though the dog might be screaming like your killing it, and trying to eat your fingers off! 

Now there are some dogs that holding the scruff, might be the only way to brush a certain part of their head or face, but it's not done harshly, or in anger; it's mainly done to keep their teeth away from your hands, or brush, as holding the scruff in the right place, can make it so the dog can't turn her head on you. 


Mostly though, if you have a proper table restraint, you can do these dogs without getting forceful on them; you shouldn't have to either way...and for example; If the dog pulls it's foot away, you're not going to pull it backwards more (which IS forceful), but you will want to keep a hold on it, so the dog learns to keep his paw where you want it at that moment; you just move with the dog until he quiets down, and relaxes so you can actually do the trimming, or nail filing you need to get done. 

If you're going to groom you will have to be tough, but it's not the being forceful type of tough, that I am talking about; anyone can manhandle a dog, but it takes a tough person to really work with the dog, and remain patient through out the grooming process. Dog's feed off of our energy and if it is 'rushed, impatient' energy, geuss what the dog's are going to be 'depicting'? impatient, and naughty...surprise surprise! But remain calm, even if the dog IS being a brat, and eventually the dog is going to figure out that it's not too big of a deal.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Thank you Love's_Sophie, that's exactly how I feel, I hate seeing these dogs slammed down on the table, hit, etc. How many dogs do you generally do in a day?


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Thank you Love's_Sophie, that's exactly how I feel, I hate seeing these dogs slammed down on the table, hit, etc. How many dogs do you generally do in a day?



I generally do between 4-5 right now, as I am technically working part time; Sposed to be part time in two shops, but haven't been able to work at one of them due to the economy being that it is; people just aren't bringing their dogs in. 

For a full day, I will do anywhere from 7-10...sometimes a few more, but I will use a bather, and will tell the owners that it may take a little longer than usual; on the days that have more than 10, it's usually due to walk ins; easy bath and brush outs, etc...not full groom dogs\cats.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

So is 20 - 22 dogs typical for a groomer with one bather and one assistant who helps finish double coats and rough in dogs? Right now I'm going all out trying to get the dogs bathed in time, and am still being told I need to be faster. There's NO time to be patient with the dogs, it's do whatever you have to do to get them done as quickly as possible.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Please understand that what I am about to say is not meant to be critical of you, but rather of the experienced persons you are working under who should know better and act appropriately. My only hope is that after reading my message you will use your head and follow your heart. If dogs are having to be handled poorly because "there's NO time to be patient" with them, that's not a place I would want to learn or work in. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for alpha rolling, scruffing, striking or yelling at dogs. I don't care if they are simply being fidgety, or downright aggressive towards the groomer. A groomer that busy can afford to turn away dogs they cannot groom safely. A groomer who isn't that busy can also afford to turn dogs away they cannot groom safely. You cannot groom a dog safely if you are in a rush and having to mistreat it to get the job done. Mishandling dogs like that can result in serious injury and even death to the dog, not to mention the handler. If I were you I would look into professional schooling, and get away from that place months ago.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Thank you, pamperedpups, that's exactly how I feel, I just wanted to find what other groomers thought. There are, unfortunately, no grooming schools around here that I can take, just groomers who are willing to apprentice. I was talking to a friend who is a dog trainer yesterday, and she strongly encouraged me to seek training elsewhere with another groomer. I was wondering too, what questions would you suggest asking a groomer before accepting a job, to avoid ending up in a similar place?


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

PPups hit the nail on the head. Hearing about the groomer you are working with makes me want to hurl! That is why many people are afraid to drop their dogs off.

20-22 dogs is a ridiculous amount of dogs, in my opinion. No wonder the woman is loosing her marbles. Sounds like she is plain greedy and taking on way too much and then taking her stress out on the dogs. And how can you even do a good job if you are doing that many? I wouldn't be able to.

I also work part time, and do 4-6 dogs a day, usualy one of them being a Bath/brush/nails/ears....I do all my own bathing, checkin/outs, scheduling ect. If I had a bather I might be able to do 7-8.

The entire reason I do so few dogs is so I have time to treat each dog with respect and be kind and gentle to them. 
I have the luxury of a two income household so I don't need to work like a maniac, get burnt out and start being rough with the dogs who don't co-op.

Kuma, I would suggest finding a different salon to work at and a different groomer to train you.

I would ask the groomer-

What are your methods when handeling difficult dogs?
Why do you continue to be a dog groomer?
Do you like your job?
How did you train to become a groomer?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Thank you so much, everyone. I've read some of your posts on how you all deal with dogs, and that's the kind of groomer I want to work for, and the kind of groomer I want to be. I'm going to start looking for a new job at a different groomer's immediately. Thanks again for your advice, it's greatly appreciated!


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Kuma'sMom said:


> So is 20 - 22 dogs typical for a groomer with one bather and one assistant who helps finish double coats and rough in dogs? Right now I'm going all out trying to get the dogs bathed in time, and am still being told I need to be faster. There's NO time to be patient with the dogs, it's do whatever you have to do to get them done as quickly as possible.



The groomer I learned under could do 20 dogs in a day; but she usually has one to two bathers, and doesn't usually push for the dogs to get out the door in too much of a hurry; if the owners need them by a certain time, then she would, but then she might have someone rough the dog in (if she hadn't) and then finish it once it had been bathed and fluffed. She still does an average of 15 dogs in a day. However, she is open from like 7 am until usually 5pm, and the dogs come in a couple per hour; there are also other groomers who work with her, so it's not like she's stuck with that many dogs if she gets behind...she just hands them off to another groomer who has time to finish it. I never felt rushed when I worked for her, and the dogs always looked great; she was really nit picky, even if she was fast.


Good luck in your search for a new groom shop!!!


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

i worked for a groomer who did on average about 15-30 dogs a day. she had me, and one other girl. on saturdays another groomer came in. i usually did all the bathing, the other girl did the drying and finishing, and the owner did most of the rough ins and haircuts. when i was done bathing all of the dogs, i would also help dry and finish the non haircut dogs. this was another p[lace where the owner told me she would teach me how to groom, but never seemed to have the time. it also didnt help that after bathing 20 dogs, and helping drying about half of them, i was too pooped to even attempt learning anything. 

if you want to learn by working in a shop, it would definetely be beneficial to find one who is a little less busy, who has time to actually teach you. and if you dont like the methods, what point is there to learning them?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Great news! I just found out that one of the grooming shops in my city is planning to hold a grooming course this spring! This is an award winning shop, internationally and locally, so I'm quite excited. Here are some of the owner's qualifications:

# Professional Groomer and Show Handler since 1972
# Certified Master Groomer
# Canada's #1 Groomer for 2003 and 2004
# Leader of Canada's Groom Team 2004. Placed 4th at the World Grooming Competition in Montipellar, France, February 2005
# Established Classy Clips in 1984
# Competes in Grooming Competitions and Dog Shows on an International Level

I'll still be talking to other groomers, as I still want to leave the grooming shop I'm at, sooner rather than later (the assistant groomer alpha rolled another young dog today, for seperation anxiety of all things! grrrrr), but I'm quite excited at the option of getting some formal schooling as well as hands on experience.  I'll let you know how it goes!


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

I found this thread quite interesting and VERY true. The shop I'm working at there are two bathers and two groomers. We do an average of 20-25 dogs a day; we also don't finish one dog in a setting. We do all of the grooms in steps so the dogs don't get to frustrated and it give not only them, but also us a chance to cool down. 

Sophie you couldn't be more right about patience; it does go a LONG LONG ways when dealing with dogs.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Great news! I just found out that one of the grooming shops in my city is planning to hold a grooming course this spring! This is an award winning shop, internationally and locally, so I'm quite excited. Here are some of the owner's qualifications:
> 
> # Professional Groomer and Show Handler since 1972
> # Certified Master Groomer
> ...


This sounds wonderful! Is this Jackie Boulton's place?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

No, her name is Sandy, can't remember her last name, and her shop is called Classy Clips.  The other groomers working there have pretty impressive credentials too, so I'm really excited to have the opportunity to take a course there.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Wow. Talk about credentials!  Best wishes to you.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Thanks! They're still hammering out the details of the course, but it will be starting either in March or April. They'll have all the details for me next month.


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## Paegan2246 (Dec 11, 2008)

Here's my grooming horror story. About 3 years ago my brothers and I purchased a cocker spaniel from a very good breeder for my Dad's birthday. 6 months later he takes it to a groomer in Nashotah, WI for it's first grooming. Dad goes to pick of the dog in the afternoon, and discovers it is bleeding through it's nose. This being a Saturday afternoon, his regular vet is closed, we run it to the Emergency Animal Hospital. Long long story short, about two in the morning, the hospital calls to tell us the Chipper had died. His lungs had been crushed and he stopped breathing despite $2800 worth of treatment. These evil evil groomers must have restrained him so hard, they crushed his chest. They denied it though. The dog was in shock, and bleeding through it's nose --#[email protected]#%#$^%#@$^% to this day I want to throw rocks through their business window. I parked my car in front of their place of business with a sign in the window - THEY KILL DOGS HERE - ENTER AT YOUR OWN PERIL!!!
The cops came and told me to leave or they would arrest me.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

That is indeed a horror story. Did the vet confirm it was from being restrained too roughly?


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## Paegan2246 (Dec 11, 2008)

GroovyGroomer777 said:


> That is indeed a horror story. Did the vet confirm it was from being restrained too roughly?


No, he wouldn't either confirm or deny it.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

So basically he said he didn't know?

That is such a sad story, I'm sorry to hear it. It makes me so sad.

No grooming appointment is worth it, if it's going to harm the animal. I won't work on a dog if it can't be handled gently. I would rather have the vet give it a sedative. Stories like this confirm that it's just not worth the risk.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Paegan2246 said:


> Here's my grooming horror story. About 3 years ago my brothers and I purchased a cocker spaniel from a very good breeder for my Dad's birthday. 6 months later he takes it to a groomer in Nashotah, WI for it's first grooming. Dad goes to pick of the dog in the afternoon, and discovers it is bleeding through it's nose. This being a Saturday afternoon, his regular vet is closed, we run it to the Emergency Animal Hospital. Long long story short, about two in the morning, the hospital calls to tell us the Chipper had died. .


That is so sad...even sadder that the vet couldn't confirm anything. 

It saddens me too that they waited until the dog was so old already to get it groomed for the first time (I'm assuming the dog was ATLEAST 8-9 months old); stress can kill a dog, and grooming is a stressful event no matter how gentle and patient a groomer is...they don't know the person, their owners are not present, there's alot of commotion, etc; if it's the first time groom the dog is going to be upset in some form or fashion, which is why I stress to my clients with young dogs that is is NEVER too early to start getting them used to being groomed; even if it is just coming in for a bath, and nail trim. The longer one waits, the more stressful it will be for the dog; especially if it's a nervous type of dog in the first place.


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## giovanna.0219 (Jan 12, 2009)

Ok this is good to now. Very interesting.

Thank you ... I think this forum is great =) I learned a lot =)


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## Corrinne (Apr 16, 2007)

If someone is going to be rough with the dogs, they absolutley should NOT be in the business!!! I say quality, not quantity. I groom around 8-10 dogs on a very busy day, depending on the simplicity of the grooming. I normally groom about 3-6 dogs per day start to finish(I work alone) I get a great feeling when my clients pets are so happy to come right into the grooming room, some even run in...almost dragging their owners! You have to have a great deal of patience and completely love dogs! I worked for one shop for about ten years, about 5 years where I am currently...I've had clients follow me to my current place of business for my kindness and patience with their pets. I'm a decent groomer, but I have to admit...there are others who have been in it longer and do better work than I. It's important to have your pet looking good, but sometimes more important to know your pet will be treated wonderfully.


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