# Puppy yelping in pain. Vet at a loss. Help.



## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

I rescued Cruiser two weeks ago to foster or maybe keep. He came from an individual who knew about his symptoms (below) but was clueless and didn't have him checked by a vet. He's a 3 1/2 month-old minpin mix and weighs 6 pounds. He was neutered and had all of his initial shots on 3/20 according to papers. He's eating normally, but is on a bland diet of cottage cheese and rice since yesterday for diarrhea - per vet. His poop was normal prior to two days ago. 

I've had him to the vet twice for all of the standard tests including exam, xrays, etc.. The latest is they think it may be bacterial or viral. He's on antibiotics for a day and a half to see if it's bacterial and may respond to those. His symptoms don't fit those typical for viral. They say it's not a stomach or intestinal partial blockage. 

Here are the symptoms occurring over the past 2 weeks:
•	Sharp pains / cramps (stomach?): He’ll yelp for no apparent reason. These are not just “surprised” little yelps, but very sharp and strong as though in great pain. When in pain he doesn’t want to be touched.
•	Stomach convulsions: His stomach & rib area convulse every few seconds when in pain.
•	Dizziness / loss of balance: During these episodes, when inactive and standing he’s unbalanced and wobbles, always catching himself with a side-step before falling over. 

I posted a 5 minute Youtube of his yelping in pain - not fun to watch, but maybe someone will have an idea. Here's the video: http://youtu.be/DFR25GSFDOU 

I've done a lot of research online, but have found no obvious fits with his symptoms.

Any feedback or ideas will be greatly appreciated. He's a wonderful little pup who really wants to stop suffering.

Thank you. 
Brad


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Distemper???
The vaccinated puppy I had got it, and the symptoms were neurological. Stomach/hind end contractions (which finally made him unable to walk), yelping, loss of motor control.


Do you have raccoons where you are? raccoon fever?


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Spotted Nikes - Thanks for the reply. The vet thinks it "could" be distemper, and he does show some of the neurological symptoms. Yet he still has a normal appetite, no vomiting, and no respiratory issues (no coughing, or labored breathing). I'm hoping he responds to antibiotics, then we'd know it's bacterial and not viral (distemper). Have you seen distemper show up without these additional symptoms, or were they present as well?

Raccoons are pretty rare here, but also a possibility. I'll look into it. 

Thanks again.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

Did they do lab work and check for poisoning?


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks Fade. That's a good question. They've done two full blood panels several days apart, but I don't know if they looked specifically for poisoning. I'll ask.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Sailorbrad said:


> Spotted Nikes - Thanks for the reply. The vet thinks it "could" be distemper, and he does show some of the neurological symptoms. Yet he still has a normal appetite, no vomiting, and no respiratory issues (no coughing, or labored breathing). I'm hoping he responds to antibiotics, then we'd know it's bacterial and not viral (distemper). Have you seen distemper show up without these additional symptoms, or were they present as well?
> 
> Raccoons are pretty rare here, but also a possibility. I'll look into it.
> Thanks again.


Unfortunately the puppy I had that had distemper didn't have any coughing or labored breathing. His were pretty much all neurological. He had been vaccinated against Distemper, but was unknowingly exposed at 6 mo of age to a dog that had distemper who's owner knew it, but still brought him to the barn and let him play with my dog. So they would pee, sniff each other's pee constantly. The first symptom I noticed was he didn't eat as much, and then his abdomen and hind leg started getting spasms almost like hiccups, but longer in duration. Eventually he could no longer get up. He was eventually euthanized when vet said he would have no hope of recovery. IIRC, the vet did say his temperature would spike, which caused more brain damage each time, so we tried to keep it from spiking.

Maybe IMHA caused from vaccines? Was his bloodwork all normal?
Sending you prayers and good wishes that it is something else that is easily treatable.


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for the additional info & well wishes. His blood-work was normal. I looked up IMHA and it doesn't seem to fit, but won't rule it out.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Have you tried checking his temperature a couple of times a day to see if there are spikes?


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Liver shunt?
http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Hea...-Disorders/Portosystemic-Shunts/Symptoms.aspx


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

I have not taken his temp, but will learn how & do it. The liver shunt looks like something to consider. I'll discuss it with the vet when they're open tomorrow. His symptoms are mainly neurological so that would fit. The only ones that clearly fit from the list are disorientation and some pacing. 

I'm happy to see that just now (post meal) the diarrhea is gone after two days on the bland diet and an antibiotic for that (besides the systemic antibiotic in case what he has is bacterial). I'll start transitioning him back to Iams puppy food so that he can get his nutrients. 

One thing I didn't mention is that when I take him for a walk his energy is always good and he only occasionally has a minor pain yelp - no episodes of severe pain. It seems that his excitement to be outdoors and walking (movement helps?) overcomes any pain to some degree. To test this I took him on a walk just after a pretty severe yelping episode earlier today and he seemed strong, alert, coordinated - ie- pretty normal. Usually after a severe pain episode it'll taper off over an hour or so. I did the walk during what would have been the tapering period. I'm taking him for a few more shorter walks today to see how he does. I won't overtax him physically. 

Thanks again.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Please post an update on this. 
Distemper is such a terrible thing. I'm hoping the antibiotics do the trick for him. Sending good vibes your way. 
BTW, a pic of the pup would be nice.


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for the prompt. Cruiser is about the same - at least not much worse. I went by the vets again today. We spoke further and got a second type of pain med - this one an anti-inflamatory (the first is more of a pain-brain blocker). The vet doesn't think it's Distemper. Today is the third full day on antibiotics, so I have my fingers crossed that we'll see some results soon.

Thanks for the good vibes. Here's a pic from two weeks ago when I got him. Fortunately he's still eating and looks the same.


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## Lazerdog (Feb 9, 2013)

What are his stools like? Are they regular?


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Yes - stools and appetite are regular / normal. He had two days of diarrhea, but is completely over it now. It didn't seem to be associated with other symptoms at all. All of his tests were normal too: blood, stool, urine, x-rays. Thanks.


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## Lazerdog (Feb 9, 2013)

Your vet should try to rule out or confirm distemper. On that video, he seems to almost fall asleep at 2:18 so no pain at that time, but something certainly racks him at 4:00 or so. Appears more neurological to me, but I am no expert. Good luck with him there.


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## goonmom (Mar 28, 2013)

Where are you located? Is there any sort of regional disease he could have picked up? Has he always lived where you live now? (I ask because I live in Arizona where Valley Fever is common and can cause neurological symptoms). What about any sort of Tick diseases that are common in your area? I don't think it could be spinal because he rolled over on his back.. but has your Vet suggested this/taken X-rays of his spine? How are his foot reflexes when you flip his feet under (returns them back to normal promptly or does he let any of his feet linger?) 

Not an expert either, just a few suggestions no one has mentioned yet.

Praying for this little guy and really hope you and your vet can figure out what's going on. Do you have a neuro specialist nearby that you'd be willing to take him to perhaps?


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## sisu (Dec 31, 2012)

This is beyond the expertise of a general vet. If there is not significant improvement in a few days please take him to a veterinary neurologist. The best option would be a veterinary teaching hospital where there are specialists at one location. Take the video with you. The symptoms presented in the video are similar to a spinal cord injury, such as a ruptured disc pressing on the spinal cord. If he moves the wrong way he could be paralyzed. Keep him in a crate. Limit movement to going outside to potty on leash only. An x-ray cannot show damage to the spinal cord. 

Standard treatment, without surgery, is 8 weeks strict crate rest to allow the injury time to heal, Prednisolone, Robaxin and Tramadol. Prednisolone will mask the pain in a couple of days. The injury is not healed. If the dog is allowed to move around it will extend the time strict crate rest is needed.

Rather it is a spinal cord injury or not it appears to be a neurological problem requiring a specialist.

Wishing Cruiser all the best.


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## Lazerdog (Feb 9, 2013)

Does the pain episode follow any pattern such as a walk, rigorous exercise, etc? I had a yellow lab years back that would howl like crazy after a hard day of hunting. The only thing we could ever figure out was muscle cramps from just too much work.


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

The vet and I agree with you that it seems neurological, and are looking at distemper, meningitis, or encephilitis. We'll try a broad-spectrum antibiotic tomorrow to rule out bacterial, then try a specialist in neurology.


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

We live in San Diego. I don't know where he was for the first 3 months of life - probably here or the south-west. It could be regional, and we're considering that. His x-rays are all normal - including spinal. That doesn't rule out spinal / brain inflammation (encephalitis). We're trying to narrow it down now & will consult a specialist if we don't see some improvement soon.


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## Lazerdog (Feb 9, 2013)

sisu said:


> This is beyond the expertise of a general vet. If there is not significant improvement in a few days please take him to a veterinary neurologist. The best option would be a veterinary teaching hospital where there are specialists at one location. Take the video with you. The symptoms presented in the video are similar to a spinal cord injury, such as a ruptured disc pressing on the spinal cord. If he moves the wrong way he could be paralyzed. Keep him in a crate. Limit movement to going outside to potty on leash only. An x-ray cannot show damage to the spinal cord.
> 
> Standard treatment, without surgery, is 8 weeks strict crate rest to allow the injury time to heal, Prednisolone, Robaxin and Tramadol. Prednisolone will mask the pain in a couple of days. The injury is not healed. If the dog is allowed to move around it will extend the time strict crate rest is needed.
> 
> ...


 sisu.... Are you a Finn?


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

The videos are heartbreaking. I'm afraid I don't have anything constructive to offer, but I hope you are able to get a diagnosis and help Cruiser. Please keep us updated.


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for the support. We have an appointment today at noon with a Neurological Specialist. Cruiser's pain episodes were very intense last night - on and off throughout the night for the first time. On the plus side he's still eating, not vomiting, and poop is normal - so constitutionally he should be pretty strong still. 

I'll keep you posted as things develop. 

Brad


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I also have nothing to offer but support and some prayers for all of you.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Ask about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyzeCiW-nn0 http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/152/25/776.abstract


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Cruiser UPDATE - TUESDAY AFTERNOON. We went to the Neurological specialist today and he diagnosed Cruiser with Distemper. As you may know there's no treatment for the virus itself, but the symptoms can be managed giving the pup a chance to fight it on his own with the possibility of a decent quality of life now and a chance of recovery in a few weeks or so. We've got him on a steroid / anti-inflammatory + one of the earlier pain meds to minimize pain (yelping episodes). And he's on an anti-seizure med to minimize or eliminate the episodes - which are mild seizures. 

The meds are supposed to fully kick in by tomorrow some time, and he's been okay since I gave him the first doses a couple of hours ago - no adverse reaction yet, and only one minor pain episode. 

Thanks again for all of the support and well wishes. Cruiser will continue to get the very best I can possibly give him towards a healthy life. I'll post periodic updates as his condition changes.


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## goonmom (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm sorry he's been diagnosed with Distemper-- but also happy that they have diagnosed SOMETHING and are on a course of treatment for him. 

Please do keep us updated.

Praying for him-- he can beat this!


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## Lazerdog (Feb 9, 2013)

Sailorbrad. Thank You for the update, and we are all glad he is with someone that cares and you have done the best for him. Best of luck going forward.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you for the update ... and I will keep sending good wishes and many prayers for a speedy recovery! He seems like he is a tough little pup and a fighter!


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Thank you for updating. Sending prayers to cruiser and you. Distemper sucks. I know of one dog that survived it with minimal neurological damage. I'm hoping he is also as lucky. Search this forum and General, for Distemper. There was a poster that found someplace (I think in TX) that was doing some kind of new drug treatment, that was having some success. The thread was within the last 3 yrs.


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## pkelley (Feb 10, 2012)

Hi,
Our dog became Very ill with liver failure when she ate a moldy black walnut, neurological signs include heavy breathing, disorientation, drooling, balance, throwing up, dehydration, pain in the abdomen, etc. Did the vet do liver enzymes labs by any chance, did you check your yard for the ASPCA list of toxic plants in the yard? The vet gave her plasma , charcoal, antibiotics, and in the hospital for a week...just a though.


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

pkeley - No liver enzymes were done. The specialist was very experienced and I'm trusting his diagnosis for now.

spotted nikes - Yes - I found some info on a new treatment that looks legitimate and promising. I'll research it further. In case anyone else with a dog with distemper wants to check it out it's work done by Ed Bond and can be found at www.kindheartsinaction.com 

Cruiser slept through the night with only a few whimpers - no episodes. He's alert and active this morning and everything else looks good. The new drugs should kick in more fully today. I'm very pleased and encouraged that this looks to have eliminated the worst of the suffering for now, and am hoping the tough little guy will fight off the virus.


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## Sailorbrad (Apr 21, 2013)

Cruiser Update: It's Sunday evening, and I thought an update on Cruiser's status would be good.

Cruiser is doing ok. He’s been improving very gradually the last couple of days. It’s still a bit difficult to tell how much the meds might be masking the symptoms, but since I started the new meds last Tuesday, and added one other pain med last Thursday he’s made some progress. On Friday he had a few isolated sharp yelps and a few moderate dizzy spells (minor seizures - the main symptoms), and no more episodes of yelping. Since then these have decreased in frequency and severity to the point where today he had no yelps at all and just a couple of short very minor dizzy spells - more just staring like in a trance for a few seconds. His energy is still not great, but better. I’d call that progress!

These meds are meant to minimize the symptoms, as there is no treatment for the distemper virus itself. That said, as near as I can tell, he is beginning to improve, though is not out of the woods yet.

He’s getting along great with the other critters (a dog and cat) and played fetch with his ball a couple of times today.

Please continue to send good vibes and prayers his way. We need all the help we can get!

Brad


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Thank you for the update, hopefully he will continue to improve! He's absolutely adorable


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you for the update.  I am still pulling for the little guy!


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## Jenbeery (Mar 5, 2014)

I am new to this forum and having some similiarities in my puppy. It's not all exactly the same as yours, but similar. I am going back and forth between hypoglycemia or vaccination induced distemper. Was really wondering how your dog is doing now?? I actually joined this site because I was at such a loss because of Cocoa's episodes.


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## [email protected] (Nov 18, 2013)

The problem with trying to make this into a vaccine associated Distemper episode is the timing. In a previous post you said that your dog began having problems 24 hours after vaccination. What you are describing in this thread is the (very, very rare) problem where a modified live virus in a vaccine reverts to a virulent form and causes disease. But, even assuming that this had happened, the dog would not start to show symptoms for 10-21 days, since the virus would have to spread in the body, reproduce, and start to affect the pet. This never happens quickly. So, almost by definition, this couldn't have happened if your dog was seizuring 24 hours later. Your dog may have had a vaccine associated neurologic episode (vasculitis, encephalitis, etc.) but could not have developed clinical Distemper in 24 hours.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Since this thread got bumped, I wonder if the OP could update us on Cruiser. Hope he is ok/recovered.


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