# Teddy bear? Just discovered this breed



## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

I heard they are a mix of bischon frise and shihtzu or something? Can anyone tell me about their temperament? I am most familiar with pugs so perhaps a comparison between them would be good.

few questions:
- how loud are they when barking and are they frequent barkers
- how affectionate are they? I would love for them to always want to be with me and want hugs and petting.
- How hyper? looking for a laid back type of dog with minimal exercise (i live in apt).
- are they good with kids and other pets?


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## Foxes&Hounds (Jun 7, 2014)

Can I ask why this specific mix rather than a bichon or a shih tzu? Or anything else?

Neither breed is particularly known for barking, but they are fully capable of doing so. It'd be more of a training issue than anything - they can be quite loud for small dogs.
Bichons and shih tzus are both mostly companion breeds; they are bred to want to be with their people so well bred dogs of either breed should be quite affectionate.
ALL dogs need a fair whack of exercise and mental stimulation. Just because they are small doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't have ample walks. 
In general, shih tzus and bichons are both quite tolerant of animals and children... but it does come down to training, the individual dog.... and how well trained the children are.

"Teddy bear" dogs are a cross breed. There is no set standard for their looks or temperament, and I'd wager most breeders of them are more interested in the money than trying to set any standard.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

well i heard mixes produce healthier dogs. Also because i kind of prefer a non all white dog so a mix would do that. Also they look adorable lol.

In terms of exercising, i will take them out for poops 2-3 times a day and when they are inside i will provide exercises in doors for sure. they are dogs after all. Just that i live in apt so a athletic dog who needs ample exercise is not possible for me especially since that will be hard in winter (i live in nj).


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Mixes are not inherently healthier, that is a myth. A mix may also be all white.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

just going by what i read. I am a newbie with all this so articles and stuff is pretty much all i have. But there must be a science/biology explanation for this i hope. Also i would obviously pick a non white mix.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Well there are lots of breeds that come in other than white, so no loss there.

If you breed healthy dogs you will -likely- get healthy offspring, if you breed unhealthy dogs you will -likely- get unhealthy offspring, regardless of whether those dogs are mixed or not. 

Teddy bear is a designer mix that bad breeders are trying to capitalize on to turn maximum profit. So what you'd get in terms of temperament/health/appearance is a huge question mark.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

ireth0 said:


> Well there are lots of breeds that come in other than white, so no loss there.
> 
> If you breed healthy dogs you will -likely- get healthy offspring, if you breed unhealthy dogs you will -likely- get unhealthy offspring, regardless of whether those dogs are mixed or not.
> 
> Teddy bear is a designer mix that bad breeders are trying to capitalize on to turn maximum profit. So what you'd get in terms of temperament/health/appearance is a huge question mark.


ya i figured. Only thing that does make sense of what i read is that the chance of inbreeding is reduced in mix breeds. But ya i get what you mean. Finding good breeders is so damn hard. I have been searching and i think i found a couple good home breeders but even then how can i ever know if the dog is healthy? I am sure all breeders will just say their parent dogs are the best.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

nirrrr said:


> ya i figured. Only thing that does make sense of what i read is that the chance of inbreeding is reduced in mix breeds. But ya i get what you mean. Finding good breeders is so damn hard. I have been searching and i think i found a couple good home breeders but even then how can i ever know if the dog is healthy? I am sure all breeders will just say their parent dogs are the best.


Chances of inbreeding (which is different from line breeding, might I add) are reduced if you buy from a reputable breeder who is taking care of their stock. Buying 'Teddy Bear dogs' from a backyard breeder seeking profit could mean that you're buying from someone who is breeding sibling puppies from previous 'Teddy Bear' litters that display desirable traits as far as appearance. 

You want to find a breeder who does health testing on the parents and can answer questions about the major health concerns in both breeds.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

And health testing doesn't just mean a trip to the vet, either. 

Recommended testing for Bichons: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BCF
I imagine Shih Tzus are similar, especially the patellas. 

Also, keep in mind that a lot of the google images that come up in a search are not this mix. I see a lot of shaved pomeranians...

The chance of finding a good, reputable breeder breeding this mix is very very low. Why not just look at a Shih Tzu? Or maybe a Havanese? I love Havanese - great little dogs. There are about three living in my mum's condo building and it's the breed I'm going to suggest for her when she's ready for another dog.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

ya havanese is one of the dogs i am researching along with pugs, cavalier king charles, yorkies and a few others.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

I teach a Teddy Bear in a puppy class. She's hyper, sounds like a honey badger when she plays, has a high maintenance coat, I just did a training session on barking because she's starting to become more vocal at 4 months. She's smart, she's sweet, but so is the purebred shih tzu of the same age that I teach in a different class. Due to bad breeding most likely, the four month old Teddh Bear is approximately the size of an adult shih tzu and bichon. Breed mixes and purebreds from bad breeders tend to be much larger than they are supposed to be, which I really hate. 

I think a shih tzu is an excellent choice for a first time owner, and I've worked with havanese before and they're also very smart and sweet.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

any experience with pugs?


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

I haven't worked with pugs, but I hear regularly from pug people that they are much higher energy than they are made out to be, which is how many end up in rescue. Here, we can help you find the breed for you. Answer these questions.

-I assume you want a small dog?
-You mentioned a dog that doesn't need a lot of exercise. Many people are able to have dogs in apartments, they just walk them outside . Most companion dogs will laze around the house all day, but all dogs need some type of exercise. how often do you think you'll walk your dog, and how long will those walks probably be?
- You have mentioned both long and short haired breeds... how much grooming will you REALISTICALLY do with your dog? Are you willing to pay a groomer every other month to take care of your long haired dog's coat or are you willing to learn how to do it yourself?
- You want a dog that is good with kids and other pets? Do you have other pets? Some breeds have higher prey drive than others, and regardless of that you should never leave your dog with kids and other animals along, for the safety of everyone involved.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

-Ya i prefer small dog
-Ya i prefer a lazy affectionate dog that just wants to chill . But ofcourse i have no problem with more hyper dogs so if it does end up being that way i will be perfectly fine with it. I will be walking him 2-3 times a day for pooping (morning, 4-5pm and one more before he sleeps. Other then that i will be playing with him in my apartment since i work from home. And that will also be teaching him stuff and playing fetch indoors perhaps? Walks will just be as long as it takes for him to poop honestly. However maybe once a week i can take him out to the park.

-realistically i can probably comb his hair every day and clean him with a towel if needed like a pug for example. but other then that i would prefer for the maintenance to be kept minimal. every month professional grooming is a bit much and i prefer maybe once every 3 months. Long haired dogs i would cut them very small so its easier? Not sure if that helps.

- Good with pets/other people is #1 factor because i have 2 birds who are family. (this is why pug is still my #1 for now). The kid part is just for the future. I dont have kids now but plan to in the future so thats just something i want to plan ahead for and for sure i will always supervise him with my kids/pets.

And lastly i really want a dog who is very affectionate!!!

Also a note, there is absolutely 0 chance i will ever put my dog in a rescue. He is mine forever regardless if he has 1 leg or whatever.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Most dogs are going to need more exercise than that, especially as puppies. I would recommend to plan for at least one daily walk of a min 20-30mins.


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## mrsserena (Nov 9, 2015)

Maybe a chihuahua? They're super cuddly and low maintenance. I have a long hair chihuahua, and she doesn't shed much, only needs brushing maybe once a week. The barking, we had to work on, but she just alert barks now. Mine isn't good with strangers, but she's a rescue, and I didn't really care about that. She crates well when needed, and is good with people she's met and spent time with. You could probably socialize a puppy so they are OK. Or find a rescue that is good with strangers. Mine is great with other dogs, probably birds would be OK, they are definitely not hunters ☺. 

Health wise, they're generally very healthy. They can have bad knees, but if you use a good breeder, that risk would be minimal.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

ireth0 said:


> Most dogs are going to need more exercise than that, especially as puppies. I would recommend to plan for at least one daily walk of a min 20-30mins.


Yup, absolutely. No matter the size and energy level, a dog should get a moderate walk at least once a day (30 minutes of walking or so).

Also, plan for about five times the amount of potty breaks you have mentioned. If you want a small breed puppy, expect to be taking it outside every 30 minutes until it's at around 4 months old. Or, alternatively, expect to be cleaning up a lot of accidents in your apartment.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm not going to recommend any dog being around birds who aren't caged. Even if it's accidental, the bird is probably going to be hurt or killed. The best I would hope for is a dog who won't attack the cage. . .


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## Caro (Sep 10, 2012)

Re: the 3 walks- even as an adult, a small breed dog is likely going to need more bathroom breaks than 3 times a day. Once you are past the puppy stage, you will likely be able the walk dog 3 times a day but then take the dog to the closest door (off the patio or building door & have him go there & go straight back in). Think about how many times a day you use the restroom in the average day....


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

well my birds are flighted so they are never anywhere close to the ground. And i will surely supervise when they are out together but ya for sure their safety is a big reason i am spending the next year researching.prey dive and other agression is something i am trying to avoid or keep at a pure minimum so i can control it when i am supervising.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

nirrrr said:


> well my birds are flighted so they are never anywhere close to the ground. And i will surely supervise when they are out together but ya for sure their safety is a big reason i am spending the next year researching.prey dive and other agression is something i am trying to avoid or keep at a pure minimum so i can control it when i am supervising.


May I politely suggest that while also researching breeds, you do a little bit of research about dog ownership in general? Some of what you say (only taking dog out for potty breaks three times daily, only going to the park once a week, playing fetch indoors for exercise, etc) makes me think you are a bit unprepared for the rigors of puppy ownership.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Dogs don't need to be walked to poop, they need to be walked for (a) exercise, very important, (b) socialization, just as important, and (c) to smell things, maybe the most important. Just walking a dog a few minutes until they poop three times a day isn't okay. It would be like keeping a parrot in a teeny little cage 24/7 in a room by themselves and maybe going in once a day to freshen water and feed.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

If you need a lazy quiet dog, you don't want a puppy. You want a dog that's already an adult. Even with a very nice puppy you almost certainly have a year or more of noise and rambunctiousness ahead of you. Puppies are loud (they can be astonishingly loud for their size) and may yowl at all hours, and adolescents are hyper.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Amaryllis said:


> Dogs don't need to be walked to poop, they need to be walked for (a) exercise, very important, (b) socialization, just as important, and (c) to smell things, maybe the most important. Just walking a dog a few minutes until they poop three times a day isn't okay. It would be like keeping a parrot in a teeny little cage 24/7 in a room by themselves and maybe going in once a day to freshen water and feed.


Exactly. Even though a small breed can get some decent physical exercise indoor by playing fetch and such, walks are about much more than just burning a few calories. The smaller companion breeds may not have quite the need for high intensity exercise that breeds like working or herding dogs have, but they are still dogs. Which means regular outdoor activity.

To illustrate further-- 
a family friend has a 16-17 year old Chihuahua who is mostly blind, mostly deaf and sleeps something like 23 hours a day. He still goes for a (slow) 15-20 minute walk around the neighborhood daily and often 2 times per day.

My almost 9 year old large breed recently had knee surgery and has been on very restricted exercise, exercise really similar to what you're suggesting for a healthy puppy or young dog, and he is going stir crazy from it. We're now up to about 15 minutes of walking plus potty breaks and getting to sniff up and down the block for that time is just barely enough to stave off cabin fever 

Its also important to consider that being a 'weekend warrior" (as in, sedentary during the week and then trying to go to a dog park or for a hike on a weekend) can increase the risk of injury to a dog because they aren't staying conditioned properly for those bursts of action.


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## MysticRealm (May 30, 2007)

They've actually given this mixed breed a name? Around here for as long as I can remember those dogs are simply called Bichon Shih tzus.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

MysticRealm said:


> They've actually given this mixed breed a name? Around here for as long as I can remember those dogs are simply called Bichon Shih tzus.


They had to give it a cute name so people wouldn't start calling them Bishitz.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

RonE said:


> They had to give it a cute name so people wouldn't start calling them Bishitz.


I kind of want two so I can call them Shitzbiches.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/zuchon.htm

not teddy bear looking.. personally think a plain Bichon is much more cuter for having the fur type to shape by grooming.. that is the thing with mixed breed you have no control of the out come.. Shiztu fur type really ruins the out come if that is the one puppy you get when they grow into adult hood..


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

Hiraeth said:


> May I politely suggest that while also researching breeds, you do a little bit of research about dog ownership in general? Some of what you say (only taking dog out for potty breaks three times daily, only going to the park once a week, playing fetch indoors for exercise, etc) makes me think you are a bit unprepared for the rigors of puppy ownership.



i mean all this is relative to how the dog is. I will train him and hopefully i will learn his body language(i am almost 87% certain that training dogs cant be as hard as training birds lmao but even if i am wrong we will go through it since it helps with bonding). So when he has to "go" i will take him out. And of course if he is out i wont just bring him back right away. we will walk for awhile and all that good stuff. Only reason i say sometimes it might be short is cause of the freezing weather in the winter times here in nj but again its all relative to the dog. I certainly wont come in between our happiness and bonding by preventing him to enjoy his dog life. (I probably wouldnt even be here in the first place if that was the case).

i think people are getting confused when i use the terms :lazy dog, or "teddy bear". It just means that type of personality would be good for my lifestyle since i have birds. But i will be perfectly fine if they are more hyper and energetic since i am guessing that 99% of babies will definitely be energetic. i have a feeling that i would be taken a bit more seriously if my title was something different lol.

so in general is it frowned upon to breed mix dogs? All this time i thought mixed dogs are more acceptable because of the possibly debatable stronger genes it produces and the reduction of inbreeding.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

nirrrr said:


> so in general is it frowned upon to breed mix dogs? All this time i thought mixed dogs are more acceptable because of the possibly debatable stronger genes it produces and the reduction of inbreeding.


Only frowned upon because most of the time they aren't being health tested or tested for diseases that may be in the breed. If there were responsible breeders (health testing) mixed breeds like doodles or something like that we wouldn't have much of a problem. Also if they are a mixed breed we strongly recommend rescues. Maybe you could find a dog there that could meet your needs but also I would probably not say puppy if you only want to let the dog out 3 times a day. My dog goes out about 4 or more times a day at least and he's 10 years old and I know he could hold it for 10+ hours if he NEEDED to but I try not to make that happen if at all possible.


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## Terriermon (Mar 19, 2016)

You should probably count on having to cage your bird when the dog is around, and vice versa, no matter the breed it's awfully risky because because parrots are fragile and can also become jealous of dogs and try to approach/attack them. Especially poicephalus parrots lol my Meyers is the jealous type for sure. an older dog perhaps with limited mobility would be a safer choice if you really want to have them both free in the house at the same time, maybe look into adopting a special needs dog?


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## MysticRealm (May 30, 2007)

Btw, when my mini poo was around 5 years old I got a lovebird. They can be loose supervised together and not have an issue (poo is almost 11 now so it's been about 6 years). He has a good leave it and listens well and was mature. But there is no way I can have my lovebird loose with my 7 month old pomeranian no matter how supervised. He would not have the self control not to try to catch and play/eat the bird


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

kcomstoc said:


> Only frowned upon because most of the time they aren't being health tested or tested for diseases that may be in the breed. If there were responsible breeders (health testing) mixed breeds like doodles or something like that we wouldn't have much of a problem. Also if they are a mixed breed we strongly recommend rescues. Maybe you could find a dog there that could meet your needs but also I would probably not say puppy if you only want to let the dog out 3 times a day. My dog goes out about 4 or more times a day at least and he's 10 years old and I know he could hold it for 10+ hours if he NEEDED to but I try not to make that happen if at all possible.


if he wants to go out 10 times a day i am all for it depends on the dog really.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

Terriermon said:


> You should probably count on having to cage your bird when the dog is around, and vice versa, no matter the breed it's awfully risky because because parrots are fragile and can also become jealous of dogs and try to approach/attack them. Especially poicephalus parrots lol my Meyers is the jealous type for sure. an older dog perhaps with limited mobility would be a safer choice if you really want to have them both free in the house at the same time, maybe look into adopting a special needs dog?


ya i am worried about that. my budgie is an angel and likes everyone while my poi is a jealous bird for sure. I will just go with the flow. If i see any risk i will just give them separate out of cage times while the dog is with me in the other room. then put dog in the crate while i play with the birds and so on. Gotta see first if my birds will stay away or not. Usually they are always pretty high up in one of their play spots.

curious how easy is it to train a dog to playdead? it was pretty hard to teach my bird that.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I think it's hard for people to give suggestions because you go back and forth on what you're looking for/what will fit your lifestyle. 

First you say you want lazy/low energy, then you say hyper would be fine. Then you say you'd only be able to take them out 3x/day for potty breaks/maybe a park on the weekend, but then that you would take them out for walks as much as needed.

What can you realistically provide and what are you really looking for?


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Yeah, puppies are a pain. I know some folks on the forum here only get older dogs, even, to avoid the puppy insanity. For small breeds, you're looking at potty breaks that could be as frequent as every 15-30 minutes. You COULD pee pad train, but I don't recommend that because dogs will often then assume that any soft surface inside is okay to pee on. Like the rug or your bed... Puppy teeth are also very very sharp and puppies bite a LOT - it's how they interact with the world just like human babies. Also, when you get a puppy, you usually get them right in their critical socialization period, which means you need to work on positive socialization opportunities. Lots of positive interactions with other people, dogs, kids, vehicles, everything. You can also get a really good boost to body handling if you work in some body handling training in that socialization period. You're basically helping to build your puppy's brain and make him a well-rounded easy going dog who can easily adapt to changes and new things.

Mostly, though, the first few months are filled with pee and poo and insane bouts of hyperness from them, plus bruises and sometimes blood from the puppy nips. Yay fun. (That said, I adore puppies and will always have them - I'm a bit of a masochist)

As for mixed breed dogs, I'd say most people don't have a problem with them here IF they're well-bred. There definitely are a few people breeding mixes who are doing it in a good way. I think a lot of the sport mixes are pretty solid, but that's the opposite of what you're looking for. The majority of people breeding small fluffy mixes or doodle mixes are basically just sticking two dogs together over and over to pump out puppies to make a buck. And while it can be the case that two HEALTHY breeds create a healthy mix, breeding two dogs that are already a mess isn't really going to magically produce a healthy dog, even if the parents are different breeds. Since many of these breeders only care about the cash, I trust their breeding dogs to be healthy and stable about as much as I trust my dog not to eat a chicken I've left on the counter while I go to the store.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

nirrrr said:


> well my birds are flighted so they are never anywhere close to the ground. And i will surely supervise when they are out together but ya for sure their safety is a big reason i am spending the next year researching.prey dive and other agression is something i am trying to avoid or keep at a pure minimum so i can control it when i am supervising.


I can tell you from personal experience that you are wrong. My cockatiel was fully flighted yet the dog got him. I highly recommend that you crate the dogs every timethe birds are out.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

ireth0 said:


> I think it's hard for people to give suggestions because you go back and forth on what you're looking for/what will fit your lifestyle.
> 
> First you say you want lazy/low energy, then you say hyper would be fine. Then you say you'd only be able to take them out 3x/day for potty breaks/maybe a park on the weekend, but then that you would take them out for walks as much as needed.
> 
> What can you realistically provide and what are you really looking for?


Not sure how things are in the dog world but in the bird world you never get what you expect or thought you would get. So expectiations and wants should always be kept ina open ended sort of way. My preferences is as i stated earlier as in i would prefer a lazy chill dog who wants to play a bit but isnt high energy and who i need to take out 3x a day. But obviously i am not hardwired into this that if this doesnt happen then all hell will spill over. I am open minded as i was with birds. With birds you have people who wants something then when people suggest them the breeds that might work and things dont work out the way they thought they did they just send the birds to the rescue. This is why i am open to whatever i get and its not a big deal either way.

However the research and talking to you guys is just to pick a dog who normally might be that way but i dont want it to be hard wired in and blue print exactly to my wants this way i can just adapt to whatever dog i end up getting . I adapt to the dog not the other way around.

realistically i can provide the dog anything it needs. money isnt a concern (however just like my other preferences, i obviously hope its kept at low amount ) and walking the dog isnt a concern either if it needs be i will walk him more if he wants to. i will adapt.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

InkedMarie said:


> I can tell you from personal experience that you are wrong. My cockatiel was fully flighted yet the dog got him. I highly recommend that you crate the dogs every timethe birds are out.


This is definitely something i am strongly considering. This or just keep them in separate rooms.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

nirrrr said:


> Not sure how things are in the dog world but in the bird world you never get what you expect or thought you would get. So expectiations and wants should always be kept ina open ended sort of way. My preferences is as i stated earlier as in i would prefer a lazy chill dog who wants to play a bit but isnt high energy and *who i need to take out 3x a day. *But obviously i am not hardwired into this that if this doesnt happen then all hell will spill over. I am open minded as i was with birds. With birds you have people who wants something then when people suggest them the breeds that might work and things dont work out the way they thought they did they just send the birds to the rescue. This is why i am open to whatever i get and its not a big deal either way.
> 
> However the research and talking to you guys is just to pick a dog who normally might be that way but i dont want it to be hard wired in and blue print exactly to my wants this way i can just adapt to whatever dog i end up getting . I adapt to the dog not the other way around.
> 
> realistically i can provide the dog anything it needs. money isnt a concern (however just like my other preferences, i obviously hope its kept at low amount ) and *walking the dog isnt a concern either if it needs be i will walk him more if he wants to.* i will adapt.


Bolded - every dog on the face of this earth needs to go outside more than three times a day. The fact that you continue to say that you want a dog who goes out three times a day, but that you'll adapt if they need to go out more, kind of convinces me that you haven't been around or owned a lot of dogs. 

If you don't want to take an animal outside frequently, but still want a friendly, cuddly, furry mammal, get a cat.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

In the dog world, you do not expect to adjust your current lifestyle for the sake of getting a dog. If your lifestyle is that of someone who is a homebody, not interested in going on long walks or doing any grooming, the kind of dog you get should meet what your lifestyle CURRENTLY allows for. People who say "I will start going for runs once I get a dog" and then don't do it will have a frustrated, high strung dog and they will be wondering how they got into this mess.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

TSTrainer said:


> In the dog world, you do not expect to adjust your current lifestyle for the sake of getting a dog. If your lifestyle is that of someone who is a homebody, not interested in going on long walks or doing any grooming, the kind of dog you get should meet what your lifestyle CURRENTLY allows for. People who say "I will start going for runs once I get a dog" and then don't do it will have a frustrated, high strung dog and they will be wondering how they got into this mess.


Well people should start changing the way they think then. When i think of a dog (or in my example my bird) they are part of the family and i would consider them my kids. Going out another few times isnt going to bother me especially since i work from home. I am home all day other then the times i go to the gym which is just a few hours. Also before i just figured dogs wont need to go out more then 3 times a day (just from what people told me) but now reading here i realize babies will go out more so i am perfectly fine with that. But in terms of my preference i am not the type of person who will be upset at things if it doesnt work out exactly the way i wanted. trust me i got 2 birds who turned out completely different and till this day i still train them and love them. here is a video of 1 of my birds learning a trick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1JN2pP1MgQ


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

It's not about changing how they think. It's about choosing a pet that is not going to demand more than you can reasonably provide without changing your life too much. Dogs are demanding creatures. They need to play, they need training, they need much more exercise than people think, they need attention and affection. If you want a lazy dog, you can certainly find one, but it definitely won't be a puppy and it probably won't be a purebred or designer mix. When I think lazy, I think older rescue. You definitely won't find any breed adult or puppy who just needs to eliminate three times a day. 

You may not be upset if you wind up with a dog that doesn't fit your life, but you have to think how the dog will feel of you don't actually step up and meet the needs. It's how MANY dogs end up in shelters.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Hiraeth said:


> Bolded - every dog on the face of this earth needs to go outside more than three times a day.


Three times a day is certainly about as low as you can go, but this statement is just not true. Most weekdays, my male goes out three times a day, unless he has an upset stomach or has been drinking a ton of water. Of course, one of the times _is_ a walk. I don't think he's abnormal in this.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

parus said:


> Three times a day is certainly about as low as you can go, but this statement is just not true. Most weekdays, my male goes out three times a day, unless he has an upset stomach or has been drinking a ton of water. Of course, one of the times _is_ a walk. I don't think he's abnormal in this.


Agreed, Kuma goes out 3 times a day most days, short of an upset stomach, as said above.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Hiraeth said:


> Bolded - every dog on the face of this earth needs to go outside more than three times a day. The fact that you continue to say that you want a dog who goes out three times a day, but that you'll adapt if they need to go out more, kind of convinces me that you haven't been around or owned a lot of dogs.
> 
> If you don't want to take an animal outside frequently, but still want a friendly, cuddly, furry mammal, get a cat.


 Sounds like someone else we know, eh?


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

Alright guys you guys convinced me into not getting a dog for now. I appreciate all the information.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

nirrrr said:


> Alright guys you guys convinced me into not getting a dog for now. I appreciate all the information.


We're not saying 'don't get a dog'. We're saying 'get a dog that fits your lifestyle instead of expecting to drastically alter your lifestyle for a dog'. 

An older rescue would be perfect for the situation and what it sounds like you're willing to provide.



parus said:


> Three times a day is certainly about as low as you can go, but this statement is just not true. Most weekdays, my male goes out three times a day, unless he has an upset stomach or has been drinking a ton of water. Of course, one of the times _is_ a walk. I don't think he's abnormal in this.


I think leaving the house three times a day, for two potty breaks and for one potty break/walk combo, is very low and should not be expected when someone is looking into getting a dog. If it turns out that way, great, but setting the bar at three times a day and raising it from there 'if the dogs needs it' is dangerous. Planning for the dog to need more and then paring it down if the dog doesn't is fine. 

I have three mellow adults and one crazy puppy. The mellow adults leave my house six times a day - four potty breaks, two walks or games of fetch in the yard. The puppy leaves my house at least nine times a day - morning potty, morning walk, lunch potty, evening walk, after dinner potty and late night game of fetch in the yard, late night potty, plus random intermingled potty breaks. And I'm pretty sure that's very normal.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

Hiraeth said:


> We're not saying 'don't get a dog'. We're saying 'get a dog that fits your lifestyle instead of expecting to drastically alter your lifestyle for a dog'.
> 
> An older rescue would be perfect for the situation and what it sounds like you're willing to provide.
> 
> ...


I will just give myself another year and just research for now like planned. But i certainly am positive that i could not do 9x a day like you do (obviously me saying i would take him out 10x a day before was just me exaggerating to make a point lol but realistically that would require me to drastically change my lifestyle. and i am guessing at least 20-30 mins each time at least).Like i said i was just told 3x is fine by other people i know and thats the reason i said 3 to begin with(maybe the people who told me are similar to the few on this thread that said 3 is low but not horrendous providing i give them ample attention/training and exercise indoors). 3-5 times out however is something thats not drastic for me all though ya 3 is preferred since i can take him out in morning when i wake up, around 3-4pm and once at night. but i can surely add more in if need be since i work from home and going out is just a few steps from my door so its hardly a big change to my lifestyle lol. I was planning to actually bell train him (read about it that i can teach him to ring his bell to let me know to take him outside). and just do it that way on non scheduled outings but oh well. For now i will continue researching and just learning everything there is to learn.

And i already searched 100 miles within my area for a younger pug(however after unsuccessful i broadened search to all pugs and all i got was mixed breeds such as puggles). Thats actually the first thing i did and i didnt find any pure breed pug(that was my 1st choice so far for now). But even if i did find one, i would prefer a younger pug because i want to experience its younger days as well as older days.( I live in northern jersey so if you want to double check by all means but likely i will still wait a year). I also looked at the rescues nearby as well and most have bigger dogs. Speaking of, i am planning to volunteer in the nearest shelter to just get some experience with all dogs for now which should hopefully help me later on.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

nirrrr said:


> I will just give myself another year and just research for now like planned. But i certainly am positive that i could not do 9x a day like you do (and i am guessing at least 20-30 mins each time at least).Like i said i was just told 3x is fine by other people i know and thats the reason i said 3 to begin with(maybe the people who told me are similar to the few on this thread that said 3 is low but not horrendous providing i give them ample attention/training and exercise indoors). 3-5 times out however is something thats not drastic for me all though ya 3 is preferred since i can take him out in morning when i wake up, around 3-4pm and once at night. but i can surely add more in if need be since i work from home and going out is just a few steps from my door so its hardly a big change to my lifestyle lol. I was planning to actually bell train him (read about it that i can teach him to ring his bell to let me know to take him outside). and just do it that way on non scheduled outings but oh well. For now i will continue researching and just learning everything there is to learn.
> 
> And i already searched 100 miles within my area for a younger pug. Thats actually the first thing i did and i didnt find any pure breed pug(that was my 1st choice so far for now). But even if i did find one, i would prefer a younger pug because i want to experience its younger days as well as older days.( I live in northern jersey so if you want to double check by all means but likely i will still wait a year). I also looked at the rescues nearby as well and most have bigger dogs. Speaking of, i am planning to volunteer in the nearest shelter to just get some experience with all dogs for now which should hopefully help me later on.


If you want a younger dog of any breed, waiting until you can take the dog outside every 25-30 minutes is definitely the best idea. Bell training works well, but it's something you can't expect a puppy to pick up right away. Puppies have no control of their bladders and a very unreliable alert that they need to go outside for many months. 

Volunteering in a shelter sounds like a great way for you to get some hands on experience with younger dogs to figure out what you really want.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Volunteering is a fantastic idea. It will give you a better idea of what you like and don't like, and what you can or can't live with. 

Plus, when the time comes that you are ready to adopt, you will have an inside track on the available dogs.


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## mrsserena (Nov 9, 2015)

I really think you would be much happier rescuing an older dog. My dog really does only have to go out 3 times a day, but she does like to go out and explore more than that. My first dog, I got as a puppy, I won't do that again! Older dogs are SO much less work. 

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Nine times a day is too much? Better get an adult but be prepared for senior years; some go more often. 

I have three dogs. not counting puppy housebreaking, this is what we do here;

*out as soon as we wake up
* out after breakfast
* out mid morning
* out mid afternoon
* out after dinner
* out an hour, hour & half after that because my oldest needs to pee then
* out right before bed

Thats 7 times, at least & thats not counting any time they ask to potty or when we go for walks/play in the yard and they go

That may be more than some and less than others. Some people have dog doors & theirs go in & out. People with those have no clue how often they go.

I think you should get snother bird & skip the dog. IMO only.

Edit: I'm a stay at home mostly but even if I worked a full time job, it would still be a minimum of 5 times.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Hmm, not counting walks or other activities, but only potty breaks and "stretch the legs" breaks--

Early AM before breakfast.
An hour later before I leave for work.
Immediately upon arriving home from work.
(then we usually spend 1-2 hours outside, if we were indoors, they'd need a pee break near the end of that time frame)
After dinner
Just before bed

So usually outside trips 6 times per day for their bodily functions on work days.

Add 2 times in the middle of the day when I am home because they are more awake and active during the day, drinking more water and moving more which means their bodies don't slow down their functions as much as when they sleep all day so they have to go pee an extra time or two.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

InkedMarie said:


> Nine times a day is too much? Better get an adult but be prepared for senior years; some go more often.
> 
> I have three dogs. not counting puppy housebreaking, this is what we do here;
> 
> ...


when is a dog considered adult anyway? 5 -6? also from everything i read i thought 3-5 would be enough for apartment dog breeds. What exactly is apartment dog breeds then? I thought they were able to exercise in doors and taking out 3-5 for socializing/pooping would be enough? Just curious because seems like everything i read online is wrong after making this thread lol.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't think there's such a thing as an "apartment breed" that just hangs around inside and doesn't go for walks except to eliminate. All dogs need to get outside for exercise every day, and dogs love walks because they get to see and smell all kinds of different things. My nine-pound papillon can walk for six hours no problem, and I know many other people in real life and on this forum whose small dogs (including pugs, yorkies, and chihuahuas) love to exercise. I do know a few small dogs who walk for about a block before plopping down and refusing to continue, but they are old, fat, or both.

In addition, it's extremely important for puppies especially to meet lots of people and have lots of different experiences (riding in different vehicles, seeing various animals, walking on various surfaces) so that they grow up confident and stable. Puppies are a LOT of work and it's easy to mess them up.

If you didn't have birds (or if you were diligent about separating your pets when the birds were out of their cages), a cat would be perfect for you. Many cats are perfectly happy indoors, and they're fairly low-maintenance. No walks needed, and most cats require no special grooming! Many are affectionate and cuddly, and they love to just hang out with you while you watch TV or whatever.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

Crantastic said:


> I don't think there's such a thing as an "apartment breed" that just hangs around inside and doesn't go for walks except to eliminate. All dogs need to get outside for exercise every day, and dogs love walks because they get to see and smell all kinds of different things. My nine-pound papillon can walk for six hours no problem, and I know many other people in real life and on this forum whose small dogs (including pugs, yorkies, and chihuahuas) love to exercise. I do know a few small dogs who walk for about a block before plopping down and refusing to continue, but they are old, fat, or both.
> 
> In addition, it's extremely important for puppies especially to meet lots of people and have lots of different experiences (riding in different vehicles, seeing various animals, walking on various surfaces) so that they grow up confident and stable. Puppies are a LOT of work and it's easy to mess them up.
> 
> If you didn't have birds (or if you were diligent about separating your pets when the birds were out of their cages), a cat would be perfect for you. Many cats are perfectly happy indoors, and they're fairly low-maintenance. No walks needed, and most cats require no special grooming! Many are affectionate and cuddly, and they love to just hang out with you while you watch TV or whatever.


3-5 for pooping and socializing and being out for a decent walk would work them out as well. Wouldnt just be for pooping but i figured that would be enough for "apartmnet " dogs like pugs who are not known for their athletic prowess lol. Also to clarify , my example of taking them for a walk isnt just opening the back gate to a back yard so actual socializing would take place for sure.

i am aware some dogs can walk for ages but thats why i was doing the research in first place. I have 0 interest in getting a dog breed like labs or other athletic breeds. Was honestly looking for more examples like pugs who are not as athletic and are considered more apartment dog breeds for living in the city with and stuff. I assure you no one who lives in a city and has a job is taking their dog out 8-9 times thus why i said thats "a lot." Quality over quantity. I sure as hell would give him a lot more attention in doors then most thats for sure because i am used to training.

also if there is in face no such thing as apartment dogs (who wont be happy with just 3-5 outings to socialize,poop,exercise) then every site and online videos needs to be erased. they are giving horrible misinformed advise.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Pugs are not the lazy bums people make them out to be! They're actually pretty energetic.

Here's a good training textbook for you to check out if you're thinking about getting a dog. It's all online and free: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

Crantastic said:


> Pugs are not the lazy bums people make them out to be! They're actually pretty energetic.
> 
> Here's a good training textbook for you to check out if you're thinking about getting a dog. It's all online and free: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training


hah its all relative. they are definitely not as lazy as people make them out to be but they are also not comparable to a retriever. I have been doing research in pug forums for awhile now as well so i definitely know they arent as lazy as portrayed to be lol. but they are adorable!!! Cant believe some people find them ugly. Those people can rot in hell.

thanks for the link. will check it out.

side note i am actually goign to a pug meetup sunday!!! should be a blast. Only for learning purposes. I actually asked the group if its okay to come without a pug lol.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

that should be a blast nirrrr... endless amounts of Pugs all at the same time lol... I really found that I liked Pugs, but it took seeing different kinds of (versions) of pugs that were not the extreme flat face over bug eyed ones. Think it's a good idea to see a huge group of Pugs all at the same time to be able to pick out which structural version that you like better and want to look for when your looking to own one. Have fun...


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I don't know if it's just me or not but it seems like common sense that the amount of times a dog has to go outside is different for every dog.

If you want a dog, get a dog & know that you need to go by what the dog needs. If you expect hard & fast with a dog, get another bird. Or a cst. Or a goldfish.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

InkedMarie said:


> I don't know if it's just me or not but it seems like common sense that the amount of times a dog has to go outside is different for every dog.
> 
> If you want a dog, get a dog & know that you need to go by what the dog needs. If you expect hard & fast with a dog, get another bird. Or a cst. Or a goldfish.


Ya that's what I figured and that's why I kept saying I will adapt to the dog instead so if he has to go out more I will go more. But from what I am suggested so far, apparently that's not the best way to go about it.


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## Terriermon (Mar 19, 2016)

I think you're over-thinking this just a bit. You just need a low energy breed, probably not a puppy. If you love it, and you probably will since you seem to love animals and pets, you will do what needs to be done. You will learn to take the dog out as necessary. To be honest I think anyone who can put up with a pet parrot can handle a small low energy dog, no problem...parrots are more work than a dog in many ways, they are more difficult to keep entertained and messier too.


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## nirrrr (Apr 9, 2016)

Terriermon said:


> I think you're over-thinking this just a bit. You just need a low energy breed, probably not a puppy. If you love it, and you probably will since you seem to love animals and pets, you will do what needs to be done. You will learn to take the dog out as necessary. To be honest I think anyone who can put up with a pet parrot can handle a small low energy dog, no problem...parrots are more work than a dog in many ways, they are more difficult to keep entertained and messier too.


I am sure I am but I like to feel 100% confidence in something before I take it on. And until I feel that comfortable, I will just keep researching and just be around dogs in general to feel confident. Dogs and other animals are precious and we are the only family they will have for rest of our lives so I would be doing them a deservice if I wasn't 100% prepared and sure that I could give them the best life I can possibly give. But I appreciate the encouragement .


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## Galathiel (Apr 11, 2012)

Once an adult, a shih tzu is a great companion. As a pup, mine could play for hours without a break, but once he matured, he was pretty much perfect (in my eyes). Very loving and affectionate, happy to be with me and do what I'm doing, loved to cuddle, loved to play ... just ... great.

As a pup, you can expect to take them (any type pup) out every 30-45 minutes until they are completely housebroken when they are awake, after meals and after naps and first thing when they wake up or come out of the crate. Pups are a lot of work.


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