# opinion on orijen?



## lexichae (Oct 23, 2013)

Just wanted to get some opinions about orijen dog food? Is it the best? Have you fed it? What do you think the best kibble is? I look forward to seeing some good posts!


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

I feed Orijen and absolutely love it. My dog has been doing so great on it. He's 10 months old and I had trouble keeping weight on him until I started feeding Orijen. His skin and coat are great, he's at an awesome weight (finally!), and he loves the food. 

It's important to know that although a food is of premium quality, and some dogs may do excellent on it, others won't. Each dog is different, so IMO there is no such thing as "best." If you ask that question to one hundred different people, it will bring in one hundred different answers - different experiences bring different opinions. And IMO, what it comes down to is that what works for some just simply won't always work for others. If you're interested in trying it, I say give it a shot, but don't expect great results just because someone else has had them. Orijen has very high protein content, and sometimes that is too much for dogs to handle. Acana is made by the same company as Orijen, but with a lower protein content so you may want to look into that. 


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## lexichae (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks for the comment. I have never fed orijen but am certainly going to give it a try. My dogs have had a large variety and have never been upset by it so I think we're safe. I always look for foods with the most meat content and orijen is by far the best based on that.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Have you considered raw feeding?


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## lexichae (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes I have. I was doing some pre made raw like Stella and chewy brand. But for financial reasons I decided against it. I feed 2 large dogs and just graduated high school. Im Trying to save money while still feeding my dogs quality food.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

lexichae said:


> Yes I have. I was doing some pre made raw like Stella and chewy brand. But for financial reasons I decided against it. I feed 2 large dogs and just graduated high school. Im Trying to save money while still feeding my dogs quality food.


I hear ya. I feed two large dogs too and if you're on a tight budget Orijen might not be the one. It's very pricy, and there are options out there that are still good quality that cost less. 


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Something to think about with all foods and that is the quantity that you are feeding. I was feeding my pup Orijen and she was 31 lbs. getting 2 cups a day which was way too much according to the store. I fed her the same amount of a different food and she immediately did fine on it. The good news is if you are feeding your dogs less then the same amount of food purchased (5lbs, 15 lbs. or 30 lbs.) will go further.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Orijen is the most overhyped food on the market. It has among the lowest repurchase rates of any food simply because many dogs don't do well on it. The company has had numerous quality control issues and its claims about sourcing are misleading and downright false in many cases.

Don't get suckered by it. You will often see people that don't even use it or used it with bad results still rave about it, which is curious. The bad results have nothing to do with the food having high protein, it is just a poorly made food.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Bumper1 is an adamant Orijen hater lol

I really like Orijen. Most dogs do well on it. All of my fosters have done well on it. If I had to go back to kibble, I am going to Orijen


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> Orijen is the most overhyped food on the market. It has among the lowest repurchase rates of any food simply because many dogs don't do well on it. The company has had numerous quality control issues and its claims about sourcing are misleading and downright false in many cases.
> 
> Don't get suckered by it. You will often see people that don't even use it or used it with bad results still rave about it, which is curious. The bad results have nothing to do with the food having high protein, it is just a poorly made food.


I read things like this and decided to try Orijen out regardless and haven't been happier with a kibble. I like the food because of how well my dog has done on it. I am so thankful that I tried it out. I'm not just saying this, I owe nothing to Champion. And believe me, I would love to not pay nearly $90 for 28.6 lbs of food, but my dog looks great, feels great and absolutely loves the food, which makes it worth it to me. Like I had mentioned, a huge issue I was having was keeping weight on my highly active young Weimaraner. Switched to Orijen and he's never looked better. He's still gangly because he's a baby and not started to fill out yet, but he's off to a good start. 


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## Kibasdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Orijen is an excellent food. It's what I've fed Kiba along with ZiwiPeak since he was a puppy. He does excellent on it, maintains a consistent weight has a beautiful coat and has nice solid easy pick up poops. 

The Bumper clown just seems to have a vendetta against them.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

my previous dogs did not do well on it at all, but they were all raised entirely on raw and had the same issues with pretty much any kibble. since working in a job where some of my dogs meals are fed at work, so I feed kibble at work and raw at home, those same dogs are used to it now and can handle any decent kibble(cheap stuff gives them the runs) and have no issue with orijen either. 

Gem eats Orijen(mixed with raw) and does GREAT on it, I tried a number of foods before Orijen and she does by far the best on it. I have been trying to switch her over to a great food I can get from work(so I can get it at cost) but while she eats it, she clearly doesn't like it, so I'll just continue what I am doing, since it works for her lol. 

my friend also uses Orijen with great success, her dog could not hold weight for the life of her, 40lbs and was eating EIGHT CUPS a day of other foods she tried and still looked emaciated, she gave Orijen a try after coming to me desperate for help to get weight on this dog. within 1 week eating 2 cups a day of Orijen, her dogs weight was perfect, her coat was softer, she was shedding less etc.. despite not being able to afford Orijen(she is a young single mom with 2 toddlers) she refuses to try anything else because the dog is doing so great.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Bumper1 is an adamant Orijen hater lol
> 
> I really like Orijen. Most dogs do well on it. All of my fosters have done well on it. If I had to go back to kibble, I am going to Orijen


I've fed teams of working dogs on it and my current dog has it in her rotation, very rarely do I see a dog do bad on it, but when they do it can be traced to 2 things. The dog can handle the higher fat/protein content (rare but does happen), or the human over feeds or didn't transition foods properly (more common).

I have a feeling just from reading many of Bumpers posts, that he hates most dog foods.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Flaming said:


> I have a feeling just from reading many of Bumpers posts, that he hates most dog foods.


Basically. You're really only safe if you're Annamaet or Dr Tim's...or Pedigree , which was a part of my first impression of Bumper1. I learned quickly to take his statements with a grain of salt. 


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Flaming said:


> I've fed teams of working dogs on it and my current dog has it in her rotation, very rarely do I see a dog do bad on it, but when they do it can be traced to 2 things. The dog can handle the higher fat/protein content (rare but does happen), or the human over feeds or didn't transition foods properly (more common).
> 
> I have a feeling just from reading many of Bumpers posts, that he hates most dog foods.


Yeah I agree completely. When I worked at a pet boutique the number 1 issue we saw with people who had dogs that did not do well on Orijen was just due to the fact that the owners were overfeeding.

Bumper1 only likes Royal Canin, Purina ONE and Dr. Tims lol.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

I've tried a bunch of dog foods for Aidan, and Orijen is the only one he likes. He does well on it.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Flaming said:


> I've fed teams of working dogs on it and my current dog has it in her rotation, very rarely do I see a dog do bad on it, but when they do it can be traced to 2 things. The dog can handle the higher fat/protein content (rare but does happen), or the human over feeds or didn't transition foods properly (more common).
> 
> I have a feeling just from reading many of Bumpers posts, that he hates most dog foods.


That is the typical rationalization for the majority of dogs that don't do well on it. The truth is it is a marketing-based food. The company does no testing and doesn't even employ a nutritionist or vet.

If you really worked dogs you would know Dr. Tim's rules right now.

Come talk to me when you see anyone in the Iditarod, field trials, agility, dock dog, disk dog, skijoring ever uses Orijen. I think in fact Dr. Tim's won the world championship in disk dogging, that amazing team from Japan.

Orijen is for talking about on-line or at the dog park, it is not a serious food.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> That is typical rationalization for the majority of dogs that don't do well on it. The truth is it is a marketing-based food. The company does no testing and doesn't even employ a nutritionist or vet.
> 
> If you really worked dogs you would know Dr. Tim's rules right now.


Just curious as to what your opinion is on why my high(er) maintenance dog is thriving on this food?


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

I really didn't like Orijen for Caeda (and many other dogs)....it produces a very particular smelling gas (as does Acana I've noticed). That's just Caeda though, I've heard of tons of dogs who do well on it. Caeda also had horrid diarrhea. I will add that my vet said she'd had the most skin problems showing up in the clinic associated with Orijen, she didn't even try to sell me Hills or Science Diet, she said just please not Orijen. The best thing I ever heard from a vet about food is basically "if your dog is having a noticeable amount of gas, you need a different food". 

On the other hand, I'll say Orijen was FANTASTIC for one of our cats (well...both cats loved it). We've got one guy that has had urinary problems for years, and we'd had him on $100+/bag Science Diet (or was it hills....I can't remember). Orijen, though pricy was "only" $75/bag and it did him even better than the specialty food did. He never had a single UTI the whole time he was on it, even though he had the odd one while he was on the urinary SO diet. 

I can see that Orijen is great for some dogs (and cats!), but definitely not for mine. I say give it a shot if you want, but don't buy the big huge bag until you're sure that your dog will be ok on it. Overall, I'd say not worth the money, other brands will do just as well and are considered just as high quality for a lot less cash and less risk of digestive (or apparently skin) problems.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Greater Swiss said:


> I really didn't like Orijen for Caeda (and many other dogs)....it produces a very particular smelling gas (as does Acana I've noticed). That's just Caeda though, I've heard of tons of dogs who do well on it. Caeda also had horrid diarrhea. I will add that my vet said she'd had the most skin problems showing up in the clinic associated with Orijen, she didn't even try to sell me Hills or Science Diet, she said just please not Orijen. The best thing I ever heard from a vet about food is basically "if your dog is having a noticeable amount of gas, you need a different food".
> 
> On the other hand, I'll say Orijen was FANTASTIC for one of our cats (well...both cats loved it). We've got one guy that has had urinary problems for years, and we'd had him on $100+/bag Science Diet (or was it hills....I can't remember). Orijen, though pricy was "only" $75/bag and it did him even better than the specialty food did. He never had a single UTI the whole time he was on it, even though he had the odd one while he was on the urinary SO diet.
> 
> I can see that Orijen is great for some dogs (and cats!), but definitely not for mine. I say give it a shot if you want, but don't buy the big huge bag until you're sure that your dog will be ok on it. Overall, I'd say not worth the money, other brands will do just as well and are considered just as high quality for a lot less cash and less risk of digestive (or apparently skin) problems.


I'm curious as to why your vet thought that Orijen had anything to do with the skin conditions? :s it doesn't contain anything different from a lot of dog foods out there. The gas I can see it coming from lentils (maybe some dogs don't digest legumes well).

Meh. Orijen cat food is good but dry food is just very subpar for any cat imo.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> That is the typical rationalization for the majority of dogs that don't do well on it. The truth is it is a marketing-based food. The company does no testing and doesn't even employ a nutritionist or vet.
> 
> If you really worked dogs you would know Dr. Tim's rules right now.
> 
> ...


Agility?? I know lots of people in agility feeding all sorts of things including Fromm so why does that even matter?

Also, what about people who are doing raw with their dogs? If I remember correctly, you say you do raw yourself. Since we are not testing things and there is no nutritionist who is employed by these people, would you say that raw is subpar to such foods as well?


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

I have been heavily involved in dogsports for years, flyball, agilty, rally, some disc, some conformation....Orijen and Raw are by far and away the lead contenders lol. the largest Orijen selling store in my city is owned and run by a highly competive dog sport family and is employed entirly by dog sport competors lol


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah on the working pit threads Orijen is a popular feed as well.

I


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## lexichae (Oct 23, 2013)

Heres another questions I'll add. What if my dog it not extremely active and holds weight fine. Maybe even slightly over weight. Is this too high of protein? Will they gain weight? 

Basically my belief is that dogs were made to eat meat and since I have chosen not to go raw o want a kibble that has a lot of meat.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> I have been heavily involved in dogsports for years, flyball, agilty, rally, some disc, some conformation....Orijen and Raw are by far and away the lead contenders lol. the largest Orijen selling store in my city is owned and run by a highly competive dog sport family and is employed entirly by dog sport competors lol


That is completely untrue. Please find me a top team in any canine sport that uses Orijen.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

lexichae said:


> Heres another questions I'll add. What if my dog it not extremely active and holds weight fine. Maybe even slightly over weight. Is this too high of protein? Will they gain weight?
> 
> Basically my belief is that dogs were made to eat meat and since I have chosen not to go raw o want a kibble that has a lot of meat.


Unfortunately, many companies use specific labeling tactics to make you think there is more "meat" in their foods. Champion does not in fact use as much animal protein as you think because of the multitude of ingredients it uses and the copious use of high protein lentils, peas and beans in the food. When you remove the fluff, this is what you get in my opinion:

"Chicken meal, turkey meal, *legumes (red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chickpeas), *fish meal, *dry equivalent of fresh meat*, chicken liver oil,sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, vegetables, fruits, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium. Vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, riboﬂavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast."


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

haha I love it, my 13 years of competing in a number of sports is all lies cuz bumper says so lol


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> haha I love it, my 13 years of competing in a number of sports is all lies cuz bumper says so lol


Name one Championship team in any sport that uses it. The majority use Pro Plan, well over 50%, in some sports 90%.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> Unfortunately, many companies use specific labeling tactics to make you think there is more "meat" in their foods. Champion does not in fact use as much animal protein as you think because of the multitude of ingredients it uses and the copious use of high protein lentils, peas and beans in the food. When you remove the fluff, this is what you get in my opinion:
> 
> "Chicken meal, turkey meal, *legumes (red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chickpeas), *fish meal, *dry equivalent of fresh meat*, chicken liver oil,sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, vegetables, fruits, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium. Vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, riboﬂavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast."


Someone actually mentioned in another thread that when they contacted Champion directly they guaranteed that 90% of the protein comes from animals. The ingredients list you posted is not the correct one. Here's the one for Orijen Adult

Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, chicken liver oil, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fiber, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

*"Chicken meal, turkey meal, legumes (red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chickpeas), fish meal, dry equivalent of fresh meat, chicken liver oil,sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, vegetables, fruits, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium. Vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, riboﬂavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast."*

I adjusted the wet ingredients. That is what the food likely looks like after it is processed. All those fresh ingredients are just labeling and marketing optics.

If the food is in fact 90% animal protein why isn't it on the website or the bag or Facebook? Dr. Tim's does it. Momentum is 94% and Pursuit 90%.

Farmina N&D lists the animal protein content for* all 13 formulas* and the lowest is 92%, the highest is 96% for dogs.

http://usa.farmina.com/
http://usa.farmina.com/?q=content/product/grain-free-wild-boar-recipe

I suspect Orijen is about 85% and Acana is about 75% - 80%.

If it was as high as you think, they would state it.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Someone actually mentioned in another thread that when they contacted Champion directly they guaranteed that 90% of the protein comes from animals.


That was me and it is actually 98% of the protein coming from animal sources *ON A DRY MATTER BASIS*. They have stated that to me and others on multiple occasions. Bumper in this very thread said the claims made about Orijen percentages are only what he/she "suspects". Which means Bumper is not using hard facts about weights and percentages when it comes to Orijen and ingredients and instead is relying on educated guessing.

I've also pointed out repeatedly, always falling on deaf ears, that when contacted *MANY* of the top teams in their respective sports (I've contacted more since I last posted in MOST of the team sports out there.) are heavily supplementing whatever they feed with fresh, real meat. 

As for Orijen, two of mine get it in their rotation, two do not. Monty is the pickiest thing ever and won't eat it...or anything else new. Emmett gets terrible gas on it, even feeding the appropriate amount. Otis and Freya love it and do fantastic on it: lean healthy body condition, good muscle tone, full soft shiny coat and energy to go all day on a relatively small serving. Having said that they do just as fantastic on a handful of other higher end foods so I rotate around and we are all happy.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Emmett said:


> That was me and it is actually 98% of the protein coming from animal sources *ON A DRY MATTER BASIS*. They have stated that to me and others on multiple occasions. Bumper in this very thread said the claims made about Orijen percentages are only what he/she "suspects". Which means Bumper is not using hard facts about weights and percentages when it comes to Orijen and ingredients and instead is relying on educated guessing.
> 
> I've also pointed out repeatedly, always falling on deaf ears, that when contacted *MANY* of the top teams in their respective sports (I've contacted more since I last posted in MOST of the team sports out there.) are heavily supplementing whatever they feed with fresh, real meat.
> 
> As for Orijen, two of mine get it in their rotation, two do not. Monty is the pickiest thing ever and won't eat it...or anything else new. Emmett gets terrible gas on it, even feeding the appropriate amount. Otis and Freya love it and do fantastic on it: lean healthy body condition, good muscle tone, full soft shiny coat and energy to go all day on a relatively small serving. Having said that they do just as fantastic on a handful of other higher end foods so I rotate around and we are all happy.


*Then Orijen should publish it.* It is totally impossible for Orijen to have 98% of protein from animal sources because legume are about 25% - 30% protein. Even if legumes only were 10% of the food, it would be 93%. I suspect legumes are about 20%, that would bring it down to about 86%.

As for top teams? Where are they? 

Here is just a few from Dr. Tim's:

http://drtims.com/mitch-seavey/

Emmett, you simply do not know what you are talking about. Even if fresh was 50% of the diet, it would account for a very small portion of the actual nutrition. They do supplement with fresh food but mostly for hydration.

And who cares anyway, these guys could pick any dry food, even Orijen but they don't.

In the most demanding sports, the top teams overwhelmingly use Dr. Tim's, Annamaet, Red Paw, Eagle and Pro Plan Performance.

Why doesn't Champion publish the numbers like Farmina N&D does? Acana doesn't even disclose Ash?

Why hasn't Champion submitted a disclosure to Truth About Pet Food on the origin of ingredients like Farmina N&D has?

Here are some more Dr. Tim's Champions. Where are all the Orijen teams?

*"Yachi Hirai and "Vega" of take first place in the United States Disc Dog (USSDN) World Championships!
Team Momentum's Yachi Hirai & "Vega" of Japan took first place in the USDDN World Finals Championship held the weekend of October 12-13 in Georgia. Congratulations to Yachi and Vega!

Yachi's son Kosuke Hirai took second place. Both father and son repeated last years' finishes
Congratulations to Team Momentum's Mona Konishi and "Laika" of Japan in winning the Purina Incredible Dog Challenge National Championship Freestyle Disc Championship held last weekend in St. Louis with a perfect score of 100."
*


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## PureMutt (Feb 6, 2009)

Bumper1 said:


> Unfortunately, many companies use specific labeling tactics to make you think there is more "meat" in their foods. Champion does not in fact use as much animal protein as you think because of the multitude of ingredients it uses and the copious use of high protein lentils, peas and beans in the food. When you remove the fluff, this is what you get in my opinion:
> 
> "Chicken meal, turkey meal, *legumes (red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chickpeas), *fish meal, *dry equivalent of fresh meat*, chicken liver oil,sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, vegetables, fruits, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium. Vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, riboﬂavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast."


You recommend Proplan yet there's barely any meat in it. *scratches head.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

PureMutt said:


> You recommend Proplan yet there's barely any meat in it. *scratches head.


For other reasons, 1) Its easy to get, 2) It is very low ash, 3) It works well & 4) It is very affordable.

Corn gluten and Pea Protein serve the same purpose, so there is no reason to criticize Pro Plan while recommending Fromm or TOTW among others.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

My agility club I know several people feed Orijen/Acana and quite a few feed Go or Now. Don't know any sports people using Dr Tim's.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

taquitos said:


> I'm curious as to why your vet thought that Orijen had anything to do with the skin conditions? :s it doesn't contain anything different from a lot of dog foods out there. The gas I can see it coming from lentils (maybe some dogs don't digest legumes well).
> 
> Meh. Orijen cat food is good but dry food is just very subpar for any cat imo.


She just said that she noticed that a large percentage of the dogs that would come in with skin conditions were on Orijen....she said it isn't proven or anything, but she saw enough of a correlation that she was positive it was more than a coincidence. She wasn't completely anti-Orijen, just very suspicious and recommended pretty much everything (other than absolute junk) above it. I liked her as a vet, she was really good, and other than recommending the Urinary SO for the cat, she never tried to push any of the "vet foods" on us, which goes a fair way with me considering how other vets tend to put their stuff at the absolute top of the list. 

As for dry food being subpar for cats, I do agree, I prefer feeding wet when possible. I unfortunately have one fussy guy who tends to graze at his food (the one with the bladder issues) and another that, if there is wet food around, will binge on it and barf (and she will go find the food the other guy left and eat that too). Kibble has been the best way to go for us unfortunately (with a little bit of wet mixed in sometimes), so as far as kibble goes, IMO Orijen really saved us some cash and helped our guy's string of infections without being a prescription diet, plus the other cat doesn't binge and purge on it so badly. We have however switched to Kirkland because of the cost largely, and they're both doing well on it, so we're sticking with that for the time being, but back on the Orijen if the bladder issues return.


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## tdc (Nov 21, 2012)

Riley has been doing GREAT on Orijen Six Fish, which he LOVES!! At the moment I am feeding Stella & Chewy's premade raw... just finished a bag of Primal premade raw. I am considering feeding the Orijen one meal... probably for breakfast and then a raw meal for dinner. Or just anytime I forget to put the raw in the fridge to dethaw I will have the Orijen kibble to fall back on. I have been reading that you don't necessarily have to go all raw, but that some raw is better than no raw. 

I will also be trying "Darwin's". I just placed my order and they will be shipping it out on Thursday. I have heard nothing but great things about it and can't wait to give it a try.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I fed Orijen a number of years back & my dogs did fine on it. To Bumper, I've talked to/seen various breeders, sport dog owners etc and only a few have fed a high quality food. Well, what I consider high quality. IMO, Purina anything, Iams, Eukanuba isn't high quality. I've seen articles on mushers, sports people who feed Dt Tim's, which is high quality but few and far between.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

InkedMarie said:


> I fed Orijen a number of years back & my dogs did fine on it. To Bumper, I've talked to/seen various breeders, sport dog owners etc and only a few have fed a high quality food. Well, what I consider high quality. IMO, Purina anything, Iams, Eukanuba isn't high quality. I've seen articles on mushers, sports people who feed Dt Tim's, which is high quality but few and far between.


The top teams in virtually every aspect of sport use it. I am not talking about hobby owners at the local all-breed club, but the people that are at the top.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> The top teams in virtually every aspect of sport use it. I am not talking about hobby owners at the local all-breed club, but the people that are at the top.


The number of dogs being fed in the local breed clubs that have achieved their Championship titles far outweighs the number of dogs you see competing at the big shows/trials/races. Just sayin'. There are so many dog foods to choose from, I can hardly even think that food is what gets them to the top. Just because its in the bowl doesn't necessarily yield excellent results. Pepper ate Pedigree for 9 years of his life. He is 10, almost 11 now. Shouldn't he be like... dead? Nope. Great body condition, hasn't shown any signs of advanced aging. He is by no means the best of the best or at the top of the class of anything but you know, he ate corn for most of his life. The vet is always impressed by his overall health and condition.

I think there are a lot of factors that put your dog at the top of his class. Food has very little to do with it. In my opinion, anyway.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Bumper1 said:


> The top teams in virtually every aspect of sport use it. I am not talking about hobby owners at the local all-breed club, but the people that are at the top.


Use what, the (what I think are) sub par foods? That doesn't make it good food. Plenty of Westminster winners eat crap for food. Doesn't make it good.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Greater Swiss said:


> She just said that she noticed that a large percentage of the dogs that would come in with skin conditions were on Orijen....she said it isn't proven or anything, but she saw enough of a correlation that she was positive it was more than a coincidence. She wasn't completely anti-Orijen, just very suspicious and recommended pretty much everything (other than absolute junk) above it. I liked her as a vet, she was really good, and other than recommending the Urinary SO for the cat, she never tried to push any of the "vet foods" on us, which goes a fair way with me considering how other vets tend to put their stuff at the absolute top of the list.
> 
> As for dry food being subpar for cats, I do agree, I prefer feeding wet when possible. I unfortunately have one fussy guy who tends to graze at his food (the one with the bladder issues) and another that, if there is wet food around, will binge on it and barf (and she will go find the food the other guy left and eat that too). Kibble has been the best way to go for us unfortunately (with a little bit of wet mixed in sometimes), so as far as kibble goes, IMO Orijen really saved us some cash and helped our guy's string of infections without being a prescription diet, plus the other cat doesn't binge and purge on it so badly. We have however switched to Kirkland because of the cost largely, and they're both doing well on it, so we're sticking with that for the time being, but back on the Orijen if the bladder issues return.


That's really interesting. Usually when a dog is having skin problems (chronic yeast infections) and the owner couldn't afford raw, we recommended Orijen if they absolutely had to stick to kibble so I'm surprised that there were more people with skin problems when they were feeding kibble. I'm going to keep an eye on that now, though!

Yeah I mean Orijen is definitely one of the better cat kibbles out there. That's fantastic that even feeding them a higher quality kibble helped with the bladder issues  My cat was on Go! (comparable to Orijen) and he was still suffering from FLUTD so I guess it really depends on the cat.

I didn't mean any of this to sound offensive, btw. I was genuinely curious.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Bumper1 said:


> The top teams in virtually every aspect of sport use it. I am not talking about hobby owners at the local all-breed club, but the people that are at the top.


What agility teams use it? I am honestly curious to hear names. 

When we showed conformation our dogs went to one of the top toy breed handlers in the country. They feed all client dogs raw. The BREEDERS fed something like Sam's club food but once they're out showing they're getting top notch plus lots of supplements.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Orijen gives my dog gas and soft stools... doesn't make it a bad food, just makes it a bad for my particular dog.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> What agility teams use it? I am honestly curious to hear names.
> 
> When we showed conformation our dogs went to one of the top toy breed handlers in the country. They feed all client dogs raw. The BREEDERS fed something like Sam's club food but once they're out showing they're getting top notch plus lots of supplements.


Agility is nothing compared to hunt trials, disk dogging, skijoring and the Iditarod. These teams won these last year as well. Dr. Tim's fed dogs from Japan.

*"Yachi Hirai and "Vega" of take first place in the United States Disc Dog (USSDN) World Championships!
Team Momentum's Yachi Hirai & "Vega" of Japan took first place in the USDDN World Finals Championship held the weekend of October 12-13 in Georgia. Congratulations to Yachi and Vega!

Yachi's son Kosuke Hirai took second place. Both father and son repeated last years' finishes
Congratulations to Team Momentum's Mona Konishi and "Laika" of Japan in winning the Purina Incredible Dog Challenge National Championship Freestyle Disc Championship held last weekend in St. Louis with a perfect score of 100."*

How many more do you want? How about back to back Iditarod wins? North American Skijoring Champion?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Bumper1 said:


> Agility is nothing compared to hunt trials, disk dogging, skijoring and the Iditarod. These teams won these last year as well. Dr. Tim's fed dogs from Japan.
> 
> *"Yachi Hirai and "Vega" of take first place in the United States Disc Dog (USSDN) World Championships!
> Team Momentum's Yachi Hirai & "Vega" of Japan took first place in the USDDN World Finals Championship held the weekend of October 12-13 in Georgia. Congratulations to Yachi and Vega!
> ...


But you just said that people winning at the upper tiers of any sport are feeding Dr Tims and you specifically mentioned agility.

The disc doggers I know feed raw.


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## Kibasdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Bumper1 said:


> Agility is nothing compared to hunt trials, disk dogging, skijoring and the Iditarod. These teams won these last year as well. Dr. Tim's fed dogs from Japan.
> 
> *"Yachi Hirai and "Vega" of take first place in the United States Disc Dog (USSDN) World Championships!
> Team Momentum's Yachi Hirai & "Vega" of Japan took first place in the USDDN World Finals Championship held the weekend of October 12-13 in Georgia. Congratulations to Yachi and Vega!
> ...


All that means nothing to me. They probably would have done just as well eating any number of other high quality foods.
Exceptional dogs are exceptional.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

you stated:



> Come talk to me when you see *anyone* in the Iditarod, field trials, agility, dock dog, disk dog, skijoring *ever* uses Orijen.


those of us who..you know..DO those things said no, that's not true..and then you changed it to "top teams" then to "disc, hunting, sledding top teams" make up your mind lol. the vast majority of serious sport folks I know feed raw, and use Orijen as back up kibble or travel food. the ones with a LOT of dogs to feed, feed Kirkland.


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> Agility is nothing compared to hunt trials, disk dogging, skijoring and the Iditarod. These teams won these last year as well. Dr. Tim's fed dogs from Japan.
> 
> *"Yachi Hirai and "Vega" of take first place in the United States Disc Dog (USSDN) World Championships!
> Team Momentum's Yachi Hirai & "Vega" of Japan took first place in the USDDN World Finals Championship held the weekend of October 12-13 in Georgia. Congratulations to Yachi and Vega!
> ...


jeeeeze why are you so against orijen or actually any other good food that people recommend here? do you work for dr.tims? Orijen is a good food and not highly advertised at all. I have never seen an orijen add anywhere. blue and wellness are highly advertised foods.btw: dr.tims ingredient list does not convince me at all...how is that such a superior food??


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## Luxi (Jan 30, 2013)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> Orijen gives my dog gas and soft stools... doesn't make it a bad food, just makes it a bad for my particular dog.


Same for my puppy... I switched to Acana puppy and he does just fine. Now we have to switch to adult kibble (will try Acana grasslands first) so fingers crossed


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Salina said:


> jeeeeze why are you so against orijen or actually any other good food that people recommend here? do you work for dr.tims? Orijen is a good food and not highly advertised at all. I have never seen an orijen add anywhere. blue and wellness are highly advertised foods.btw: dr.tims ingredient list does not convince me at all...how is that such a superior food??



You don't understand labels and the technical points. Three of Dr. Tim's of foods have more animal protein content than Orijen and all Dr. Tim's foods have more animal protein than Acana.

If there was another brand that had 4 recalls, killed cats, tested positive for bha/bht and used fish garbage that used to be thrown away you would criticize it.

Champion is lucky that the pet food buying public buys foods on a doctored up appearance.


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## PureMutt (Feb 6, 2009)

Maybe he IS Dr. Tim. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

PureMutt said:


> Maybe he IS Dr. Tim.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Nope, he's not Dr Tim. Tim posts as himself.


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## wespom (Aug 18, 2013)

Champion the company that makes origen goes to great length to promote they have excellent facilities and the food is quality with outstanding ingredients. It would destroy their company if word ever got out to the contrary and I believe most of their claims. I have feed, Origen and Acana for sometime along w Fromm. All 3 are excellent in my opinion. Even, dog food watchdogs have given origen and acana top reviews and the ingredient list contains NO risk factors. The only negative I can say about Origen or Acana is there's no probiotics in the food which promotes healthy bacteria in stomach.


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## cchukan (Nov 5, 2012)

My 13 month boston terrier has sensitive stomach but Orijen works well. We simply chose it because it had 5 star review by http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/orijen-dog-food-adult/

Her coat is nice and shiny...she's healthy, working out well for us...


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## shilodakotasmom (Aug 10, 2013)

Really I think Origen is probably a good food, you can always check dogfoodadvisor.com for ratings on all dog foods. Ufortunately my picky "I think I'm a Princess" chihuahua wouldn't eat it. The only thing she eats is Darwin's which I can afford for a 6 lb dog but not for my 80 lb dog, too pricey. If your dog likes it and stays healthy then by all means, feed it. If you need help dogfoodadvisor.com also has a feeding calculator, and as always every dog is an individual. You will have to adjust their intake accordingly. Good luck with your fur baby.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I just find it interesting how when anyone asks for sources for Bumper1's statements, he somehow magically doesn't see those posts.

and I really wish he would, because if what he's saying is true we could have a lot more interesting conversations. Unfortunately, the lack of sources for everything makes me suspect of all he says.

(Bumper, sorry if you're female.)


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Rescued said:


> I just find it interesting how when anyone asks for sources for Bumper1's statements, he somehow magically doesn't see those posts.


I find it interesting people still respond to Bumper (or that he's still around).


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

I haven't fed it to Ranger, but just wanted to add that I fed it to a previous cat and she did great. The next cat didn't like it so much so we switched out. Now everyone eats Kirkland. 

Also, I know that some of the breeders I know/knew fed a specific food to their breeding/showing animals because the company sent it to them. Give a puppy pack to each person who gets a puppy with some coupons to get your first couple bags at a discount and you've got a consumer for life (until if/when they research deeper). 

Are dogs handlers/owners/competitors the same as in horses? If so, those top people might 'say' they feed xxxxx but if you really look into it, it's either not fed at all to their competition animals or it's supplemented out the ***


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## DaisyDC (Feb 24, 2013)

SDRRanger said:


> Are dogs handlers/owners/competitors the same as in horses? If so, those top people might 'say' they feed xxxxx but if you really look into it, it's either not fed at all to their competition animals or it's supplemented out the ***


I don't know a top rider who's not also sponsored by supplement folks as well. And there at least, you really do feed based on performance. My ammy mount doesn't get fed the same forumlation as my barn owner's ** eventer, nor does the weekend warrior trail horse get what my midlevel show horse gets. I don't see why you wouldn't feed dogs the same way. My pet dog who walks a few miles a day and goes on longer hikes on the weekends _doesn't _need and _shouldn't _be fed what you'd feed to sled dogs in the Iditarod.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

zhaor said:


> I find it interesting people still respond to Bumper (or that he's still around).


I dislike that newbies to the forum are blindly believing what Bumper says even though it isn't substantiated at all and it could impact the health of their dogs.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

SDRRanger said:


> Are dogs handlers/owners/competitors the same as in horses? If so, those top people might 'say' they feed xxxxx but if you really look into it, it's either not fed at all to their competition animals or it's supplemented out the ***


I'm far from the upper tiers of showing and performance but have known dog breeders since I was around 11. I have never seen anyone who didn't supplement pretty extensively or send them to handlers that supplement pretty extensively when it comes to their show dogs. Not all breeders are way 'into' food. I remember Trey's breeder was very very specific about high quality food and supplements- she bred sports (multiple MACH types) and show shelties. Summer's breeder on the other hand uses Sam's club food but then when the dogs are showing ships them to a handler that uses raw and supplements like crazy. Even then her breeder was very impressed by Summer's condition after I got her once I had switched her to EVO (at the time). Didn't get her to switch because of the cost- they had like.... 8
+ paps and a couple GSDs most the time. Mia's breeder liked Eukanuba but I don't know about supplements or what her show regimen was. 

The pyrshep breeder I have looked at recommends grain free or raw.

I think there are all kinds and yes in my experience supplements are happening in most cases.

I think agility and other performance sports you will see even more variety but I think an even more strong leaning towards raw. I see a lot using Petcurean and a lot on Acana as well. Just my experience.


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## jordan200 (Sep 1, 2013)

Orijen is definitely one of the better brands out there if you were aiming to feed kibble. My dogs get Orijen or Acana if raw isnt convenient or if we're traveling. Starch is vital to the kibble making process though (I dont want to risk my dogs getting diabetes) so after years of research I started feeding raw. I had always just assumed biscuits were good for dogs even though dogs have been eating raw meat/prey for tens of thousands of years and biscuits have only been around for 100 years. Bones hugely clean their teeth too which even orijen doesnt offer. But I guess it is one of the more reliable brands which has awards and higher standards when compared to other kibble companies.


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## siulongluiy (Oct 11, 2013)

I haven't had much experience with Orijen, but I do feel Oatmeal (golden retriever) a rotation with Acana and Fromm (both grain free). His stool is firm and I have no real complaints about his gas =)


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

jordan200 said:


> Orijen is definitely one of the better brands out there if you were aiming to feed kibble. My dogs get Orijen or Acana if raw isnt convenient or if we're traveling. Starch is vital to the kibble making process though (I dont want to risk my dogs getting diabetes) so after years of research I started feeding raw. I had always just assumed biscuits were good for dogs even though dogs have been eating raw meat/prey for tens of thousands of years and biscuits have only been around for 100 years. Bones hugely clean their teeth too which even orijen doesnt offer. But I guess it is one of the more reliable brands which has awards and higher standards when compared to other kibble companies.


Diabetes in dogs is an autoimmune disorder with very, very strong ties to genetics and not diet. Your comment that dogs have been eating meat and prey for tens of thousands of years is also incorrect. As it turns out dogs as we know them evolved eating mostly cooked garbage from early human settlements. Dog in fact are supremely outfitted to eat and process virtually anything.


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## jordan200 (Sep 1, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> Diabetes in dogs is an autoimmune disorder with very, very strong ties to genetics and not diet. Your comment that dogs have been eating meat and prey for tens of thousands of years is also incorrect. As it turns out dogs as we know them evolved eating mostly cooked garbage from early human settlements. Dog in fact are supremely outfitted to eat and process virtually anything.



That's a joke right? Dogs are 100% carnivorous from their very short digestive system used to quickly pass through flesh, to their canines used for tearing and ripping apart prey (notice the absence of chewing/grinding incisors as seen in ruminants). Dogs have an identical digestive system to the wolf, only appearance and behavior has been modified by humans (http://rawfed.com/myths/changed.html). Here is a great informative link from some very well-known researchers: http://thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

You're right though, they are outfitted to eat anything. Just like a child could survive on Mcds for every single meal of their life, a dog can survive on dry processed kibble day in and day out. Before I began researching dry dog food I used to 'judge' raw feeding too, but seriously just do some research first and your dogs will thank you for it. 

Also I don't know where you got the idea that diabetes isn't linked to diet? It has been proven time and time again by science that both genetics AND diet play a massive role (along with various other factors such as weight, again related to food). Just take the time to search it in Google scholar for 5 minutes, there are numerous credible scientific studies linking diet and diabetes in both animals and humans. You obviously have the internet, so if I were you I'd use it for the benefit of your dogs health and longevity (no offense or anything).


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

jordan200 said:


> That's a joke right? Dogs are 100% carnivorous from their very short digestive system used to quickly pass through flesh, to their canines used for tearing and ripping apart prey (notice the absence of chewing/grinding incisors as seen in ruminants). Dogs have an identical digestive system to the wolf, only appearance and behavior has been modified by humans (http://rawfed.com/myths/changed.html). Here is a great informative link from some very well-known researchers: http://thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html
> 
> You're right though, they are outfitted to eat anything. Just like a child could survive on Mcds for every single meal of their life, a dog can survive on dry processed kibble day in and day out. Before I began researching dry dog food I used to 'judge' raw feeding too, but seriously just do some research first and your dogs will thank you for it.
> 
> Also I don't know where you got the idea that diabetes isn't linked to diet? It has been proven time and time again by science that both genetics AND diet play a massive role (along with various other factors such as weight, again related to food). Just take the time to search it in Google scholar for 5 minutes, there are numerous credible scientific studies linking diet and diabetes in both animals and humans. You obviously have the internet, so if I were you I'd use it for the benefit of your dogs health and longevity (no offense or anything).


Everything you wrote above is completely false. It is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

You use all the perfect buzz words that you read on the internet, thus tipping you off. Teeth being the main buzz word. Pandas are also classified as "carnivores" because of teeth structure and Pandas are completely vegetarian. "Carnivore" refers to teeth not diet.

Read up young man or young woman and you will learn.


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## jordan200 (Sep 1, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> Boy you are ignorant. You are the one that needs to study not me. You have just proven you don't know a thing about dogs.
> 
> You are internet schooled. Sorry bud.


Seriously though are you not going to respond to my points? I can provide many scholarly peer reviewed studies and scientific evidence. I was hoping you'd have some sort of response to the "diabetes isnt related to diet" claim? It makes me laugh just thinking about it.

P.s: Not internet schooled, I have 2 degrees and plan to make dog/cat nutrition my next career move. The internet provides the scientific studies as backup as they are so readily available. I think you must get your diabetes info from 'Yahoo answers'.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

jordan200 said:


> Seriously though are you not going to respond to my points? I can provide many scholarly peer reviewed studies and scientific evidence. I was hoping you'd have some sort of response to the "diabetes isnt related to diet" claim? It makes me laugh just thinking about it.
> 
> P.s: Not internet schooled, I have 2 degrees and plan to make dog/cat nutrition my next career move. The internet provides the scientific studies as backup as they are so readily available. I think you must get your diabetes info from 'Yahoo answers'.


Don't mind Bumper. They regularly make claims and refuse to substantiate them.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

jordan200 said:


> Seriously though are you not going to respond to my points? I can provide many scholarly peer reviewed studies and scientific evidence. I was hoping you'd have some sort of response to the "diabetes isnt related to diet" claim? It makes me laugh just thinking about it.
> 
> P.s: Not internet schooled, I have 2 degrees and plan to make dog/cat nutrition my next career move. The internet provides the scientific studies as backup as they are so readily available. I think you must get your diabetes info from 'Yahoo answers'.


I will give you the easy version of the genetic study on dogs vs wolves. If you like you can contact the highly respected Uppsala University, one of the world's top schools, for the complete study. Or you can contact any of the PHD's that sit on the NRC for canine nutrition.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=dog-evolution-included-getting-the-13-01-31
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v495/n7441/full/nature11837.html

*"Our results indicate that novel adaptations allowing the early ancestors of modern dogs to thrive on a diet rich in starch, relative to the carnivorous diet of wolves, constituted a crucial step in the early domestication of dogs."
*
As for diabetes you are confusing Type 1 diabetes with Type 2. Certain breeds and females across more breeds are predisposed to Type 1 diabetes. I believe females are almost twice as likely to get diabetes in dogs. It is an autoimmune condition that destroys cells in the pancreas. Diet is not a cause but it is a treatment. 

Nothing you provided was 'scholarly' it is all propaganda.

Dogs are officially classified as "omnivores" based on careful study of the evidence.

And congratulations on having two degrees. Use that education to separate fact from fiction.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> Everything you wrote above is completely false. It is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> You use all the perfect buzz words that you read on the internet, thus tipping you off. Teeth being the main buzz word. Pandas are also classified as "carnivores" because of teeth structure and Pandas are completely vegetarian. "Carnivore" refers to teeth not diet.
> 
> Read up young man or young woman and you will learn.


Usually when people disagree they provide examples or facts that can be confirmed by the other party. This allows other people to learn instead of disregarding the possibly valuable information being offered.


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## jordan200 (Sep 1, 2013)

I was talking about Type 2 which is linked to obesity, genetics and diet. I confess I don't know much about Type 1, as my mother has Type 2, so I was very confused (and still am) when you stated that diet is not tied to diabetes when it clearly is. I'm not interested in winning this pathetic keyboard war (everyone's allowed their opinions) but this is a favourite article of mine, feel free to have a browse:

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...PWArvuiHewtgh533ZUXeVeg&bvm=bv.55819444,d.dGI

It is also a university study and covers everything from preservatives such as Ethoxyquin (carcinogenic and banned from human food), to the plant-based carbohydrates in the modern pet food industry (remember they are a business just like KFC- they want profit above all else). Please download the article and read it,it covers many interesting topics. All I am interested in is you dogs long-term health anyway.

P.s: Those links I originally provided are for information only. There is no propaganda involved as they do not profit whatsoever from providing information about dogs genetics, histories, or digestive systems. To me, propaganda is when people have so much marketing drilled into them that they start to believe it (I'm ashamed to say I was one of them). Also don't get the impression I hate Orijen, as I feed it occasionally, I just prefer my dogs to eat a natural species appropriate diet in the long-term. IMO Orijen is one of the very best kibble brands.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

jordan200, just disregard Bumper1. Bumper1 has very strong opinions about dog diets and when faced with good points he can't respond to, he just chooses to belittle people and/or disregard everything you've said lol.


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## jordan200 (Sep 1, 2013)

taquitos said:


> jordan200, just disregard Bumper1. Bumper1 has very strong opinions about dog diets and when faced with good points he can't respond to, he just chooses to belittle people and/or disregard everything you've said lol.


Lol it seems other people have had similar experiences with him/her. All good haha.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

jordan200 said:


> i was talking about type 2 which is linked to obesity, genetics and diet. I confess i don't know much about type 1, as my mother has type 2, so i was very confused (and still am) when you stated that diet is not tied to diabetes when it clearly is. I'm not interested in winning this pathetic keyboard war (everyone's allowed their opinions) but this is a favourite article of mine, feel free to have a browse:
> 
> http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...pwarvuihewtgh533zuxeveg&bvm=bv.55819444,d.dgi
> 
> ...


*dogs do not get type 2 diabetes!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

opcorn:

the dog food section of the forum has become such an incredible place that allows me to smile after a long day.

No... but seriously.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> opcorn:
> 
> the dog food section of the forum has become such an incredible place that allows me to smile after a long day.
> 
> No... but seriously.


I am sure it does. However, it makes me sad that people with zero knowledge on a topic like canine diabetes bloviate and scare people.

Perhaps you like it but it is sickening to me.

From the AVMA *"These findings help explain why dogs, unlike cats and humans, have not been documented to develop type 2 diabetes mellitus."*


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

taquitos said:


> jordan200, just disregard Bumper1. Bumper1 has very strong opinions about dog diets and when faced with good points he can't respond to, he just chooses to belittle people and/or disregard everything you've said lol.


Prove it. That poster already admitted he didn't know anything about canine diabetes but blew a lot of hot air on the topic before finally admitting it.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

There is another type of diabetes that dogs can get called DI, which can either be CDI, NDI, or PDI.....though this may not have anything to do with the current topic, I thought you might like to know for future reference.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

SDRRanger said:


> There is another type of diabetes that dogs can get called DI, which can either be CDI, NDI, or PDI.....though this may not have anything to do with the current topic, I thought you might like to know for future reference.


Diabetes Insipidus that is due mainly to a hormonal issue and/or kidney issues. It is very rare and not related to diet.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

SDRRanger said:


> ....though this may not have anything to do with the current topic...


Sorry, thought I had covered that in my post.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> Diabetes Insipidus that is due mainly to a hormonal issue and/or kidney issues. It is very rare and not related to diet.



You actually can't provide stats for the prevalence of DI based on it being commonly misdiagnosed.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

"What Causes Diabetes in Dogs?
The exact cause of diabetes is unknown. However, autoimmune disease, genetics, obesity, chronic pancreatitis, certain medications and abnormal protein deposits in the pancreas can play a major role in the development of the disease."
"How Can Diabetes Be Prevented?
Although a certain form of diabetes—the type found in dogs less than a year of age—is inherited, proper diet and regular exercise can be very effective in helping to prevent onset of diabetes in older dogs. Aside from other negative health effects, obesity is known to contribute to an ability to respond normally to insulin."
http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/dog-care/diabetes

Sounds a lot like Type II even if the mechanism isn't the same as in humans.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Some causes of DI are hormonal and/or renal system related. Some other causes are: trauma, tumours, inherited, infection, drug reactions and, like my previous dog Sally, drug toxicity. 

Seems to me that right off the bat, the tumour cause could be effected by diet, no?


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

Bumper1 said:


> Agility is nothing compared to hunt trials, disk dogging, skijoring and the Iditarod. These teams won these last year as well. Dr. Tim's fed dogs from Japan.
> 
> *"Yachi Hirai and "Vega" of take first place in the United States Disc Dog (USSDN) World Championships!
> Team Momentum's Yachi Hirai & "Vega" of Japan took first place in the USDDN World Finals Championship held the weekend of October 12-13 in Georgia. Congratulations to Yachi and Vega!
> ...


Okay - those dogs have different needs than the average pet dog. Or are you saying all dogs should eat like the dogs you mentioned in the above quote? Sheesh, that would be like every American eating 12,000 calories a day because that's what Michael Phelps did! 



Bumper1 said:


> The top teams in virtually every aspect of sport use it. I am not talking about hobby owners at the local all-breed club, but the people that are at the top.


You do realize that people "at the top" are usually offered food to feed... for free? Or even PAID to feed a certain food. Sorry, just because some highly campaigned sport team feeds a food, doesn't mean I have any interest in feeding it.


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## jordan200 (Sep 1, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> *dogs do not get type 2 diabetes!!!!!!!!!!!*


I wasnt specifically referring to type 2 in humans, but the second type of diabetes that dogs get.As I said earlier, diet is linked along with various other factors (not just diet alone). http://thebark.com/content/preventing-and-treating-canine-diabetes
Please dont pick and choose the easiest thing to respond to out of my paragraph.I put effort into the previous info but you just ignore it.. Lol


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Rescued said:


> opcorn:
> 
> the dog food section of the forum has become such an incredible place that allows me to smile after a long day.
> 
> No... but seriously.


+1 

(Too short)


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## Woofie2 (Oct 5, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> Orijen , it is just a poorly made food.


Really?

Funny, this brand came through for me this past 2-3mnths when nothing else seemed to be working. 

Have a dog that acquired Giardia and Cryptosporisis this past summer; went through 6-7 different antibiotics, weeks of nasty stools, no energy, loss of weight, etc. all from swimming in an oversized pond. Probiotics, vet prescribed diet, homecooked diet of chicken/rice, etc - nothing seemed to work to hold his weight and return his energy level back.

For 3 wks following his last antibiotic, thought we were on the road to recovery, but the boy still didn't have his energy level and just didn't *look* right. 

Started giving him liquid papaya 2-3 oz per day, changed probiotics, got frustrated and decided a radical change in anything I'd done before and bought him some Acana Pacifica - within 3-4 days the boy was up and really energized; over a full month later he's back to running 15miles a day, his color has returned, eyes/coat/skin are awesome and he's not hiding/mopey any more. His stools are small and no more tummy gurgling. 

While it's not the best food for every dog; it sure came through for me at a time when 3 different vet prescribed diets didn't do a thing. 

Truth be told, I'm not 100% in any dog food company. Your more common brands can't give guarantee that they don't source ingredients from China and in fact won't tell you *where* their ingredients are sourced from - that too me is a very scary thought.


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