# Berner pooping excessively (on TOTW)



## bmdmom (Nov 15, 2009)

I have two Bernese Mountain Dogs, and they both have _extremely_ sensitive stomachs. From what I've heard, this isn't uncommon in the breed, especially with males.

A little bit of history - Jaxon is 6 months old and has had soft/runny stool basically ever since he was 10 weeks old. At his breeder's he was on TLC Whole Life and unfortunately we were not able to keep him on it more than a couple weeks since we were only able to bring one big ziplock bag of it back with us (it's only sold in Canada) so we tried to gradually switch him to Fromm Four Star. That didn't go over too well...we started mixing just 1/4 cup to his meals and that ended in him having horrible diarrhea. 

In the 4 months we've had him he's had 5 fecal tests and several samples sent out to labs to be tested. Everything has come back normal...each time. He's been treated with Metronidazole and has been dewormed two more times "just in case". The Metronidazole did nothing, didn't even firm up his stool. I know switching up foods all the time is hard on his system but we've tried a lot of different foods. The list includes Fromm 4 Star Chicken, 4 Star Duck, Solid Gold, Orijen LB Puppy, Orijen 6 Fish, NB Sweet Potato & Venison, Nutro Natural Choice, and TOTW. The vet thinks he just has a sensitive stomach and suggested Rx food but if there's a way I can avoid Science Diet or Eukanuba I would rather go that route! We have tried adding a bit of canned pumpkin but that has no effect. We recently put him on Nature's Farmacy's Digestive Enhancer probiotic...he's been on that for about 2 weeks and we have seen a slight improvement in his stool. 

For the last month and a half Jaxon has been on TOTW High Prarie. I worry a little about the thought of my dog ingesting ethoxyquin but this seems to be the only food that doesn't give him really runny stool. Not waking up to crate diarrhea is a welcome bonus  But now the frequency of his bowel movements is concerning me. He gets fed twice a day. He is fed 2 1/2 cups in the morning and 2 1/2 cups at night and very minimal treats (he gets tiny peices of string cheese as training treats). He is pooping an average of 4-5 times a day!!!!!! That doesn't seem healthy!! He is 6 months old and 66 lbs. Berner people who have seen him say he's a bit thin. Do you think we're overfeeding him? What else could cause the frequent pooping? My older Berner is fed 2x a day and poops 2x a day...if only Jaxon would follow suit


----------



## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

He could have IBS ( Irritable Bowel Syndrome) Humans can get this too. There's really no known cause. The doctors/vets will give this diagnosis if every other test seems normal. They can either be constipated, have loose stools, or both. For animals it seems they tend to have the loose stools. Maybe a higher fibre diet will help? This works on people for the fibre to act like a sponge for the bowel keeping the stools more at a normal consistency so maybe this will work for your dog as well? Also string cheese is very rich so maybe switch your treats. The vets must know about IBS in animals. My berner is on Holistic Eagle Pack, 1/2 wet and 1/2 dry, this seems to work really well with her. Her stomach may not be as sensitive as your berners though


----------



## bmdmom (Nov 15, 2009)

dakotajo said:


> He could have IBS ( Irritable Bowel Syndrome) Humans can get this too. There's really no known cause. The doctors/vets will give this diagnosis if every other test seems normal. They can either be constipated, have loose stools, or both. For animals it seems they tend to have the loose stools. Maybe a higher fibre diet will help? This works on people for the fibre to act like a sponge for the bowel keeping the stools more at a normal consistency so maybe this will work for your dog as well? Also string cheese is very rich so maybe switch your treats. The vets must know about IBS in animals. My berner is on Holistic Eagle Pack, 1/2 wet and 1/2 dry, this seems to work really well with her. Her stomach may not be as sensitive as your berners though


I did think that he may have IBS or colitis...the vet sent a sample out to a lab for a culture/sensitivity last week. The results should be in soon and depending on what shows up the vet said he may have to get a biopsy to test for colitis  His stool really isn't too bad anymore, but the pooping 5 times a day is a bit much...we can't leave him alone for over 4 1/2 hours at a time because we know he needs to poop so often.

About the fiber- he has been on a supplement made by Honest Kitchen. It's called Perfect Form and basically adds fiber to the diet 

I have talked to several berner owners whose dogs do very well on Eagle Pack Holistic. Our other dog, Baron, was raised on EPH Large Breed Puppy and never had poo problems. Maybe we should try Jaxon on it? Which formula would you recommend for a 6 month old? I'm thinking the LB puppy might upset his tummy more than say the chicken/rice or whitefish. Thoughts?


----------



## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

You are switching his food a lot! I've counted 8 different foods that you've put him on in 4 months. Is it possible you aren't giving him enough time to adjust to any one food? At the rate you're going, you're trying a new food every two weeks on average. That isn't enough time to properly switch and give your pup time to adjust. JMO


----------



## bmdmom (Nov 15, 2009)

upendi'smommy said:


> You are switching his food a lot! I've counted 8 different foods that you've put him on in 4 months. Is it possible you aren't giving him enough time to adjust to any one food? At the rate you're going, you're trying a new food every two weeks on average. That isn't enough time to properly switch and give your pup time to adjust. JMO


Thanks! Just realized that it sounds like we switch his food up every couple weeks 

We probably didn't give him enought time to adjust to each food we tried (aside from the totw which he's been on for a month and a half) but each time we would try to add just a tiny bit of a new food he would have major diarrhea...so we'd just stop giving that new food. The loose stools were making it hard to housetrain him and he was having diarrhea in his crate at night and when we'd leave him for even a couple hours. We felt like we had to switch him so we could find something that wouldn't result in projectile...uh....you know. Trial and error. Each time he's gotten a bad case of the runs we've put him on a rice/boiled chicken diet but it never really helped and I that can't be good nutrition for a growing pup. A few of the foods we tried like the Solid Gold would actually help firm him up for a few weeks and then he'd gradually get looser and looser stools. This happened with the Natural Balance, too 

Anyways, like I said, he seems to be doing the best he's ever done on TOTW but my main concern now (besides the colitis thing...that scares me) is the excessive pooping! Aren't high quality, grain free foods supposed to produce LESS waste??!


----------



## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

Did you get him from a breeder in Canada? Just wondering since you said the breeder gave him TLC Whole Life and that's here in Canada. He did really well on that? I would ask the breeder if you can order some through a supplier or they can ordersome and ship it to you (of course shipping would probably be costly) but it might be well worth it. In the meantime maybe stick to what he's on right now until you get the results back. Hopefully he doesn't have colitis. Keep us posted


----------



## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

our sammie was the same - always runny poops! we finally made the decision to switch him to raw and he has been doing fabulously since and it has almost been a year  our new pup was pooping 4-5 times a day when we first got him. he was eating go! duck formula. now he is eating raw and they are both having nice, firm, SMALL poopies once or twice a day. it is so nice! i am not saying that everyone should switch to raw because i know that not everyone can or will do this. i just wanted to share my story and tell you that i feel your pain. a berner is just a furry as my sammie (maybe a little less!) so i am sure you have given just as many bummy baths as we did!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

For a 6 month old I think 3-4 times is not uncommon. Perhaps try feeding a little less and see if he poops less and if he loses weight?


----------



## bmdmom (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks guys! I will keep you updated.

Yes, I did get him from a breeder in Canada..he's from Mount Magic Bernese in Ontario. I flew there to pick him up and brought him back on the plane with me (in a sherpa bag) because I couldn't stand the thought of an 8 1/2 week old pup sitting in cargo  He seemed to do well on the TLC and they used to ship for free to the US but they changed their bags to be reclosable and I guess that's a no-no for crossing the border  His breeder called the company and was told that they are working on it and hopefully it'll be available to us soon...but that's a good idea-asking his breeder about getting it directly from her.

ioreks_mom all I have to say is I want your Samoyed!! He is gorgeous. Every Sammie I've met has an awesome personality. In fact, one of my dogs' best friends is a female Samoyed and she is a real character! She can talk your ear off but is very sweet  

If I had the time, $$, access to meat, and the space I would LOVE to have both of my boys on a raw diet. I know would be the best thing for them. Right now they are each getting two raw meals per week and really enjoy it. Their favorite is turkey necks and chicken backs. They also get raw eggs twice a week. If I had the money I'd probably go with moslty premade raw and just add whatever I can find...but wow that would get expensive for these two!! They are very active and go everywhere with me (and both have trouble maintaining weight) so I can only imagine the bill for say a week of Nature's Variety raw...


----------



## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Ouch! Pre-made raw is expensive!! 

My sammie wasn't always such a talker but since we have gotten him a "brother" he likes to bark a lot! He always told "stories" which we really like but I don't like the barking. I know that it is because he is happy and excited so I try to ignore it. :S We really love him.


----------



## bmdmom (Nov 15, 2009)

Update!

The vet called today with Jaxon's culture results. Nothing. So we made an appointment for tomorrow and Jaxon is going to have some blood tests and also a urinalysis. If everything checks out fine with those, the vet wants to do a test for his pancreas, because it may not be producing the right enzymes needed for proper digestion/absorption. I guess the symptoms of that are continuous soft stool and gas...which he has. Vet didn't think it was normal for my pup to be pooping 5 times a day when he only gets fed twice and is on a good quality food. I'm getting a little worried about my baby! I hope he doesn't have anything serious


----------



## komi (Apr 27, 2009)

Any news on your berners? I have a 1 year old Berner puppy, and she has always had sensitive stomach issues also. After months of tests and trying a couple of different foods, I think we've finally normalized her by giving her California Naturals lamb & rice and 1 patty of premade raw (Primal lamb, duck, or beef) twice a day. We also sometimes give her a banana as a treat. It's done the trick, but we still have to be careful. She sometimes still has problems occasionally, but this has worked for us. Adding the premade raw has done wonders for us.


----------



## bmdmom (Nov 15, 2009)

Komi- Your Berner is adorable! I thought it wasn't advisable to feed raw and kibble in the same meal?

I also include raw meals for both dogs a couple times a week. Their stools on raw are normal, but when they get kibble for the next meal they usually have a little softer poos. I'd rather not go completely raw at this time. 

As an update:
Jaxon has been to an internal medicine specialist who did tons of tests and an ultrasound but was not able to find the cause of the loose stool and frequent pooping. She suggested adding a different probiotic supplement that included prebiotics as well and Metamucil fiber. Well, the loose stool issue has all but vanished! His stool is now formed and decently firm. Not as nice as his brother's, but definitely better than it ever has been! Now our only issue is the frequent pooping....it is so frustrating...he still "goes" at least 5 times a day  That cannot be healthy. Pooping that much means he is not digesting his food well at all...I guess I need to continue my search for a food that works for him? *sigh*


----------



## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

In a case like this, I would try the prescription food. I like holistic foods much better, but the rx foods do have their place when you've tried everything else.


----------



## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

bmdmom said:


> For the last month and a half Jaxon has been on TOTW High Prarie.


This formula was developed for sensitive stomachs, try that one. ???


----------



## shamrockmommy (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm going to say give PetGuard Lifespan a try. And remember to NOT overfeed (that goes with any food) as that will cause loose stool or diarrhea too. PetGuard has been great for my dogs in that Gobie the minpin has firm stool and Lexi and Darby the bichon girls have nice clear pink skin (as opposed to yeasty toes, ears and lips) and no itchies. Any other foods- even holistic- bother the girls and only takes one meal of a different kibble for them to react (start chewing feet, etc).


Do some reading over at dogtorj.com as well and see if any of that is helpful. DH and I were considering a BMD actually but I didn't know they were prone to digestive issues. I have had years of a minpin with chronic loose stool and 2 very food sensitive bichons, so don't know if I want a giant dog with the same frustrating problems. Hmm 
Anyway, I digress. Good luck!


----------



## bmdmom (Nov 15, 2009)

luv2byte said:


> This formula was developed for sensitive stomachs, try that one. ???


I have tried that one...but after realizing that Diamond uses Ethoxyquin to preserve their fish meal I would never feed it again. Berners are prone to cancer as it is, and I will not feed a food that has a known carcinogenic in it!

Jaxon seems to be doing alright lately..only pooping 4 times a day. We are currently switching him verrrrrry slowly to Fromm Four Star Pork & Applesauce. We are on day 4 of the transition and so far so good! No loose stool *dances*

shamrockmommy-Berners (especially males) do tend to have very sensitive stomachs. I know a lot of breeders and owners who have dogs with digestive issues. Before considering a BMD I'd suggest meeting some and doing plenty or research. This is not a healthy breed whatsoever and the average lifespan is 7 years. They are considered "old" at 5-6 years old. Besides all this, they are also the best breed in the world  and I will never be without one..or two..or three! I plan on adding a third Berner (female) to the pack very soon


----------

