# Is it too late for my 8 month old "pup"?



## Bethl (Apr 30, 2012)

I will try to make a very long story short. We got Romeo a mini schnauzer in May of this year. By we I mean me & hubby - no kids at home any more. We have always had a game plan to get him in May & then to add Juliet (yep I am a corn ball lol) - a Boston Terrier in Dec of this year. NO plans to bred or anything - Romeo was "fixed" Sep 17th & Juliet will be as well when she is old enough 

Romeo joined our family & is an awesome dog!!!!! We have had dogs in the past & felt good about knowing what to do. Well Romeo set out to show us everything we knew or thought we knew is wrong! I swear he stayed up nights thinking of new ways to be busy - I say busy not bad as he is not bad but boy is he busy!

About 3 or 4 months in enters the "problem". My hub suffers from depression & other mental health issues. It was decided that giving him Romeo to train and such would be a great tool. NOT!

Fast forward to today - I am taking back the control. Why? My house stinks like piss, Romeo chews everything & I do mean everything when left unattended even for 2 minutes. He tries to get to the human food, every single rug/carpet in my home is destroyed either from pee or him chewing. Same with all the blankets on beds, pillows & anything else he can access. He now refuses to do ANYTHING on command unless given a treat FIRST. I could go on and on but you get the picture. The straw for me was when he decided it was OK to pee & poop on my bed!

Hubby takes him out maybe 2 times a day & most often at 12 to 15 hrs apart. We do have a pee pad that Roe will use unless it is too dirty - hubby changes it about every 4 days.

Juliet is joining us Dec 3rd.

Here is what I want to do but am unsure. I want to start over again from the beginning. Kennel train him for house breaking and other behaviors when left unattended. Leash him to me on a 5' leash when I am doing things in the house, so that I can catch & correct him right away as well as reward him quickly.

Is it too late? Is he at age 8 months too old to be retrained while living in same house with same parents?

I bought Natures Miracle for the carpets & such and this coming week will be doing a through cleaning of carpets, rugs, blankets and everything else room by room and only allowing him in the rooms I have finished deep cleaning & then only while attended to by ME.

Hubby has been told he is fired. His role will only be to play, pet, love etc. with either dog from this point on. He is happy with this as he says "it is too much work anyways". His style of training was to lay on the couch and clap his hands together to get Roe to stop negative behaviors. :doh:

PLEASE don't bash me. YES I seen this all going very wrong! BUT was being told by his therapist that I need to let hubby figure things out on his own. I tried offering little tips and such hoping he would get excited & really take this training seriously.

THAT did not nor is it going to happen.

AM I too late to back up & do a redo on Romeo????

*PS: I do have some very specific questions about a few areas of training him to undo some poor/unsafe behaviors but first I want to see if you think I am headed down the correct general path? Then will post my specific questions. So if you think you can/want to help me, please check back here to read my questions I post later.*


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

It's never to late to train a dog. 

I would definitely recommend taking over control and you will get success if you are patient and vigilant. Just start at housetraining 101. If you want him to eliminate outside only, pick up the pee pads. Have him tethered to you or in a confined safe area ( pen, kennel, etc) when you can't wait. Have an alarm set and take him out every hour. If he eliminates outside, lots of praise and reward. If he does accidentally eliminate inside the house, don't say anything. Just clap your house to distract him and try to shuffle him outside and reward if he goes outside. Clean up the mess with an enzymatic cleaner and promise to be more vigilant with watching him next time. 

For chewing, keep him under supervision. Give him things he can chew on. If you see him chewing on something inappropriate distract him with a quick sound or a clap of your hands and give him a toy he can play with. Reward him when you see him playing with his toys. 

Every day, at least 2x or 3x a day (formaybe 3 minutes each), work on some training (preferably clicker training as it is rewarding and fun for the dog) Sit, down, stay, leave it, and go to mat are all incredibly useful. Sit, Down, and Stay. Once Romeo has some of this stuff down you can ask your husband to "help" by being a distraction. Eventually you want your husband to do a little bit of training with the commands the dog has learned so that the dog will listen to your husband. If he doesn't want to do that, fine. But he shouldn't expect Romeo to listen to him if he doesn't practice with Romeo.

Ideally, you don't want to correct him. Just distract him from what he is doing and redirect to something better so you can reward him. But everything you are trying to do is very much doable, if it wasn't, many dogs who didn't have a good start in life wouldn't be able to be adopted out and become wonderful family pets. Just depends on how vigilant and patient you are willing to be with Romeo. I do recommend that BEFORE adding another dog you get Romeo's behavior to where you want it to be. You don't want the new dog picking up on Romeo's bad habits nor do you want the headache of trying to train 2 dogs manners at the same time. Just my opinion though.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

This is the housebreaking protocol I used, and it worked wonderfully. Give it a shot.

I would seriously reconsider adding a puppy next month. It would be a good idea to get Romeo fully trained before bringing in a new pup that is also going to need to be housebroken and trained. You also want to make sure that your husband won't undo any training you do with Romeo before you bring in a second dog.


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## May (Nov 4, 2012)

I'm a complete newbie, so this is more like thoughts on your situation and less advice. 
The first thing that sprung to mind was that in all the dog training shows on TV for example, the dog stays with the owners aswell, what changes is the techniques used in training the dog - which is exactly what you're planning to do  A trainer I talked to told me that only very few dogs ever get to that "point of now return", and with enough patience of the owner, almost anything is possible. Maybe it would help if you get Romeo an evaluation by a professional? If only to ease your mind and make you think positive 
Second thing - I'm very much in awe of how you deal with your husbands health problems. I'm dealing with depression/anxiety too and know how great it is to have someone there for you, even if you mess up. But I'm thinking you shouldn't shut him out from training completely, just to make sure that the dog doesn't forget his manners as soon as he's alone with your husband. Or even if hubby only watches the training from the sofa, he'll know what to do to give the dog the right cue, instead of just clapping at everything 

I really hope you'll be able to get your dogs behaviour back on track soon, I'm curious to see how it goes!


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## Bethl (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you NIL & Cran !!!!!!  I know many many dogs much older then Roe is are trained. I was worried that with the same home - same owners etc etc that would be the undoing of his new training.

New dog - Juliet is bought, paid for , papers in my name etc., so I am going to give this my 100% efforts! She is from another state so we are waiting on her to arrival as of when travel plans to get her suite us, plus she was born Oct 5th so she still is with her dog mommy.

OKAY - specific questions. 1. The biggest one as of right now is: We sent Romeos birth mommy a blanket and brought Roey home with it so he had his mommy and siblings smell with him. He EATS it. Not chews on it EATS it. However he eats EVERYTHING cloth! We did not put a bed in his kennel as of peeing in it (which he has never done but we were not sure at that time), but we gave him a nice thick towel - which he ate. He chews the corners off them then pulls the lose strings and eats the strings. So blanket and towels are now gone. Beds - he chew holes and ate (again not just chewed) the stuffing. He was quite ill! If it is cloth and or has stuffing or strings he will eat it. I have spent big $$$ on tough toys etc only to have them last him mere minutes. The rubber type ones he ignores. The braided string type toys he chews until he gets strings lose and then eats the strings. He chews carpets, blankets etc to do the same thing. He won't play with balls or anything that is not soft aka eatable.

We keep him in supply of cow hooves, chew bones etc. Now those he will chew and does enjoy. But I feel bad that he basically has no toys 

If you toss a shirt, sweater, robe what ever over a chair within minutes he has destroyed it. 

ANY ideas? 

As for the pee smell I have used Natural Miracle before & found it removes it very well, so I plan to do all rugs, carpets etc with that product. Like I said I will do this room by room. I have a serious spine injury so I can not do the whole home all in 1 day.

May - Hubby also has Dementia, (he is only 49 yrs old) so in part this is not his fault. But it is also why I must limit his part in the "training". Once I get Roe back on the right path again & can teach hubby a few things then I will allow him to be more then a play mate. But truthfully hubby has NO desire to do anything other then play with Roe, so he does not feel bad about being fired


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Is it possible to get Roe some extra exercise? I know with my Schnauzer mixes (especially Leeo did!) ... they need a lot of exercise. Leeo used to do all the things you are talking about that Roe does.  Terriers are smart little things ... but need extra exercise and mental stimulation to be happy little campers. Mental training added to extra exercise would help significantly IMHO.

I have health issues also ... so I understand where you are at in this. But maybe you can get someone else to do some extra walking? 

I wish you luck ...

By the way .... I have never come across a dog too old to train!  I am doing it all the time.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

Abbylynn said:


> Is it possible to get Roe some extra exercise? I know with my Schnauzer mixes (especially Leeo did!) ... they need a lot of exercise.
> .



I agree with Abbylynn. A lot of misbehavior can be secondarily caused by excess energy (they are amped up and want to do something!). All the training in the world won't get you where you need to be if the dog has so much pent up energy that they can't relax.

Here are my ideas:

Training tricks. Training requires a dog to focus and learn. It really sucks out that mental energy (ever come home from school and want to nap?) and can help bring dogs down a notch. Use his breakfast and dinner as the treats. It doesn't all need to be super great, plus if he is hungry he will be more apt to learn.

Playing "hide the treat". Show Romeo a delicious smelly treat (small cut up piece of hotdog works well, even better if it is warmed up) and put him in another room. Let him smell the treat then go into the other room and hide it rather obviously. Go back to the room where he is and open it. Ask for a sit and then say "find it!" and run into the room with the treat with him. When he finds it say "Good job!" and be excited. Do this again. He'll start to associate "find it" with meaning "there is a treat hidden in here somewhere". Gradually you can hide it more and more, helping him if he gets stuck. this get him moving and using his nose a lot. 

Get a stick or pole, attach a string or rope to it, then attach the other end of the rope to a toy to make a "dog fishing pole". Holding the stick, drag the toy around on the ground. Most likely he will start trying to chase and "kill" the stuffed animal. You can do this outside. This is a great way to get him revved up and running and doing a lot of physical exercise. Make him work to get it too. He doesn't need to win all the time, just enough to keep playing. 

Pay somebody to take him on walks. Or take him yourself on good days. Let him sniff a little in the beginning but then keep it brisk and quick. 

Take him somewhere he can swim if he enjoys that. Swimming is a wonderful way of spending energy and it is very safe on joints. 

Spend some money to take him to a doggy daycare maybe 1x a week. He can play with all sorts of dogs, learn manners, and have a blast running around all day under supervision. Make sure to do research and pick a good place that actually watches the dogs though. 

Join a training class with him. It will be beneficial to you to learn how to train and he would do great learning to listen to you with distractions and he will be mentally tired from the extra work. It will help you and him form a very special bond spending that kind of quality time together.


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## Bethl (Apr 30, 2012)

You all are God sent!!!!!! At the very least you all ROCK! :rockon: I feel SOOOOO much better since reading your responses. Please please I ask that a few of you stick with me & follow me through this as I know I am going to need some more help as I go. Please check in with me.

I can walk with a cane & when I walk Roey I use my walking poles (they are like ski poles) as they have gloves built right into them, so no worries about dropping my cane. I only use 1 pole when walking him to keep the other on the leash. Plus I use it to guide him (gently) in the right directions. My biggest walking challenge is he pulls & boy is he strong. Hubby let's him just GO. I can't even if it was the right thing to do. He does wear a harness that pulls on his waist/chest area & not his neck. I am sure with time we will get the walking down pat. I need to walk more any ways as from my injury that damaged my spine I gained a lot of weight (over 100 lbs  ).

LOVE the hide the treat game idea! I also have a few KONG type toys but did not want to use them as I thought then he will only want to play with objects he can get food/treats from - any thoughts?

I am not questioning you as in I don't agree but you really think chewing cloth & string type objects & not his rubber or hard plastic ones is a energy issue?

I can see why being naughty in general would be from built up energy but this is really his only super "bad" behavior.

We live in the state of Pa., so swimming is out for this year - ie day cares. They are not so good here! Your dog is caged all day and allowed outside via a doggie dog 

PS: Since my 1st question of "is it too late" has been answered & the rest of this thread will be about specific questions/issues is it ok to keep posting here or should I start a new thread?


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

A no pull harness or halti might help curb the pulling. It isn't an answer in the long term, but it will manage his pulling while you work on him with it. You can, and probably should, teach him loose leash walking as that is a skill both dogs should know.  Loose Leash Walking. Also, I think there is a sticky called "Silky Leash" that is awesome too. You could google that. I don't want my dog pulling on the leash. It is dangerous if she pulled me over, pulled the leash out of my hands, someone else was walking her and she pulled the leash from their hands, etc. Just my opinion though. 

If he eats cloth/stringy objects I wouldn't give them to him. Too much risk. If he likes food then food toys are awesome too. My dog doesn't play with hard toys all that much. She loves her food toys. They essentially act like mind games. Instead of mindlessly eating from a bowl she needs to work and think to get her food. Helps her eat slower, think, and in general become really obsessed with figuring out puzzles to earn food. So I say go for it. Allow him stuff he won't eat. Some toys are built like plushies but with a canvas like material that is really tough - that could be worth a shot maybe. 

I was referring to exercise in general because it makes a dog overall less crazy and healthier in the long run. Plus, if he is more tired he will be less likely to chew things to shreds (hopefully - maybe not). It is easier to train a dog that is already a little tired versus one who is so amped up they are bouncing off the walls. Plus it allows his muscles to be worked and his mind to be stimulated from all the smells/sights.

You can always treat him heavily and play with those other toys with him. So he starts to associate those toys as being fun. 

You can do either. It might be better to start new threads so long as you aren't creating like 3 different ones a day. As you have questions, ask. If this particular thread sinks to the bottom then starting a new one might be better. I would get started with all the info you have gotten so far and see where you are, what you want to fix most, what issues you are having, etc. It can be a bit of a mountain at first but after a little while of getting in the swing of training, exercise, and management he should start to show some improvement. Keep in mind that he may have setbacks and that is ok too. Just keep working on it!




Edit: As a side note...as your training progresses, Romeo is young enough where if you really got interested you can teach him things to help you and hubby around the house. If you go on YouTube and look for "service dog training" there is a lot of useful stuff to train a dog to do to help. You don't necessarily need to have a disability to train a dog to do these things, it is all tricks essentially. You can teach him to close cabinets, close doors, retrieve objects you have dropped, hold stuff, deliver stuff to hubby, etc. I do this with my dog, more for fun, but it has ended up being very useful and makes her much more part of the family. And at this point, if I were to be bound to a wheelchair or if I was sick, she could be of real help to me. Granted, this doesn't necessarily make him a service dog whom you could take into a store, but it is still useful in my opinion. Just a thought!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

All great advice!  I just wanted to add that the "Mountain" that it may seem you are climbing ...... With a regular routine every single day ... this will also help Roe. Dog do their very best with a good routine. Much like people IMO ... they are not always good with drastic change. 

I hope to see an update also.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Bethl said:


> Here is what I want to do but am unsure. I want to start over again from the beginning. Kennel train him for house breaking and other behaviors when left unattended. Leash him to me on a 5' leash when I am doing things in the house, so that I can catch & correct him right away as well as reward him quickly.


I think this is a great plan, and I don't think he is too old. No dog is too old to respond to consistent, reasonable expectations and training. He's like a wild teenager who has never had any rules or discipline, you can fix that.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

You've been given lots of great advice, so how about some encouragement?

Good for you for deciding to train the little guy! Too many people just give up, but you've decided to do something difficult, but ultimately very rewarding.

As for chewing on everything- PICK IT UP! I'm not shouting at you, but rather to you. The more prevention you can do, the easier your life will be. Everything gets put away- everything. Don't make yourself crazy and allow Romeo to practice unwanted behaviors by throwing sweaters over the backs of chairs. Hang them up and close the closet door.


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## Bethl (Apr 30, 2012)

I am going to keep this thread - where as the subject line no longer fits per say I don't want to just stop it here, so as long as the ADMIN here allows it I'll stay put 

Pick it up - we do we do we do! lol Once in a blue moon we forget or run into the house & toss a jacket, sweater etc so us humans can go potty fast lol  He awaits those few chances lol Carpets/rugs and all else that can be lifted are up & stored away.

The "game plan" always was to have Roey & Juliet as a service dog(s) for me. I wanted 2 so that 1 is never on duty 24/7 - that is just a personal choice of mine. NO judgment towards owners of full time service dogs! Plus I want each to have buddy.

So the past 2 days Roey has been by me pretty much 24/7. My back is really having a rough few days so I have made no progress on cleaning. Hoping that changes today. I also need to go shopping for long underwear & sweat pants so I can keep the cold weather at bay. I have two artificial knees & when they get even a tad cold they "freeze" up like the tin man with no oil & hurt like a bugger for hours & hours after I return to the warmth. If I can get my pain under some what control today I plan to go get these so I can take him out more. 

I will keep this thread updated as we go....


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## Bethl (Apr 30, 2012)

He is really liking his Kong - I have been putting about 1/4 of his meals in it the last 2 days and it keeps him busy for aprox 15 to 20 minutes. I think it is better this way for the other reason of his is not pigging his food down either.

I put a tad of peanut butter in it yesterday and some treats which stuck to the PB - that kept him busy for almost 1/2 hr. Then last night I put a spray of whip cream in it thinking "boy am I going to have a time cleaning this out". Nope he got every drop lol - but I still used a baby bottle brush to clean it out with 

I have spent more time just playing with him, talking to him & making a point to stop several times a day to pet him for even just a quick minute - just with these small actions alone I am seeing a happier Roey 

I am going shopping tonight for sweat pants & long johns so I can take him out for walks more often without me getting in massive pain attacks.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Pain I know. Very, very well.

I love these. They're reusable heat packs from Walmart. Now, our problems may not be the same, but I find that up to a point, the more I walk, the better my joints feel. Obviously, there's a point where it's too much, but there's a really nice sweet spot where my joints feel as good as they can and less walking and more walking make my joints feel worse. That's part of why having a dog is so important for me. I find it hard to motivate myself to walk through the pain, but I'll do it for a dog.

I don't know if you take anything for the pain, but I time my walks (not the first one, that's dependent on Kabota's need to pee upon getting up) to the rise and fall of the meds. The walks are all timed so they happen as the meds are starting to work or during their strongest activity. I avoid walking as the meds are wearing off or while the next dose is taking effect. It's a pain to schedule everything like that, but it helps.

Anything I can do for you, please ask, PM me, whatever. Chronic pain is such a lonely burden, it can help to have someone who understands what you're feeling.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

If you want the kong to last even longer, try freezing it with the peanut butter inside, or a little bit of plain yogurt (we use fat-free greek) if Roe can tolerate yogurt. Or soak his kibble in water or low-sodium chicken broth and then freeze that.

Also, good for you - it sounds like you're headed in the right direction! There's lots of great tips on this forum, and the people are pretty helpful too, even when newbies *coughmehack* make silly mistakes or have stupid questions.


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