# Thing you NEED to know before choosing a Wolf Hybrid as your Pup!!!!



## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

the WolfDog is one of the most misunderstood animals in existence today. A WolfDog is defined as a dog with recent wolf ancestry, usually one of the Northern/Spitz or Shepherd breeds. 

A High Content WolfDog is is one with a parent or grandparent that is a Wolf. A Low Content WolfDog is is one with wolf ancestry further back in the line. 

Due to increasing popularity and much misinformation these animals are suffering and falling through the cracks because they are special needs animals. The high level of commitment, time, money and special attention nessecary to responsibly own a WolfDog is is quite honestly beyond most people. A WolfDog is likely to be a sixteen plus year commitment involving special licensing in some places, special enclosure requirements, innate knowledge of wolf behavior, the ability to deal with the fear that surrounds these creatures and much much more. 

Section One: What makes a WolfDog?

When learning about WolfDogs one will run into claims that:

"WolfDogs are dangerous. They should not ever be pets."
"WolfDogs are just like any other dog. Sweet as can be."

In reality the truth is that BOTH claims can be true. Genetic variation is a difficult thing to predict. 
No matter what anyone tells you..a Wolf does not behave like a Dog. Wolves have had millenia of natural selection behind them telling their instincts that humans are not to be trusted, that humans must be feared and run from. A full Wolf will not often readily approach any human. If a human approaches a full blooded adult Wolf, that animal will most likely either 

A. Run Away.
B. Go on the defensive. 

These behaviors are ingrained. They can be modified somewhat through removing a wolf pup from its mother at birth and carefully handraising it. Even this is no guarantee. Instinct is a powerful force in the mind of an animal and is based in genetics. Wolves are typically very intelligent and sensitive animals. 

A Dog on the other hand has had centuries of selective breeding telling their instincts that humans are givers of food, warmth and comfort. A full blooded Dog will more often than not readily and happily approach and interact with humans. 

There are physical differences as well. A Wolf's head is proportionally larger in relation to its body than a Dog's. Wolf ears are smaller than a dog's, always stand erect and have a layer of dense fur. Dog ear size and carriage vary and lack the dense fur of the Wolf. Another difference is to be found in Black animals. A Black Wolf's coat may fade significantly with age to grey on larger proportions of the body. This is not typical of Black Dogs. Female Wolves only have one estrus period a year and a Male Wolf is only fertile when the female is. Female dogs have two and sometimes more cycles and males are consistenly fertile. 


What this means is that when you cross a Wolf with a Dog you are going to get a random selection of wildly different physical and mental characteristics, ranging from exactly like a Wolf to exactly like a Dog or somewhere in between.

Content is a general guideline. The more Wolf ancestry in an animals background the more likely it is to be Wolf like. And Wolves make terrible, dangerous pets. The more Dog ancestry in an animals background the more likely it is to be Dog like. Dogs make wonderful pets....but this general guidline is no guarantee. You can have low content Hybrids who appear Dog like and yet behave exactly as a Wolf would. You can have a high content Hybrid that looks exactly like a Wolf and behaves just like a dog. Or infinite variations on this theme.


Stay tuned for Section Two: Buyer Beware!!!!!!!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

What she said, ditto for me.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Section Two: Buyer Beware!!!!!!

The purchase of a WolfDog pup is tricky tricky business. There are many who claim to breed Hybrids who misrepresent content levels in their animals. This misrepresentation makes purchasing a Hybrid dangerous because it gives owners a false sense of their own experience with these animals. 

Misrepresentation happens for several reasons. Here are two of the biggest.

*economics. The higher the content content claimed, the more a breeder can charge for a pup.
*ego. The high content Hybrids are more eagerly sought to satisfy romantic notions of owning one's own Wolf.

This is very dangerous. Why? Because one may purchase a hybrid believing it to be high content when in reality there is little to no Wolf content in the animal at all. They get a wonderful family pet and a false sense of experience. They then pass the word around that high content WolfDogs are always wonderful pets. Someone may hear this and go out and get their hands on an actual high content hybrid whose behavior and characteristics lean more towards the Wolf ancestry and are unprepared to deal with the difficulties that arise from owning a more Wolf like animal. 


The definitive two things to look for in a breeder of WolfDogs are as follows:

Pups are taken from their Mother at 14 days of age and bottle fed and handraised to promote socialization with humans. 

Pups are carefully introduced and socialized with other canines. These are social animals and if raised completely away from other canines develop serious behavioral problems later in life.

It is up to you to determine if a breeder has struck the correct balance between these two points. 

Stay tuned for Section Three: How to Responsibly Keep WolfDogs.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

I wish they weren't allowed to breed and sell such dogs - at least not without a specialists' license that required them to sell only to approved homes, fully checked out by some organization that has a clue... sigh...


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

myminpins said:


> I wish they weren't allowed to breed and sell such dogs - at least not without a specialists' license that required them to sell only to approved homes, fully checked out by some organization that has a clue... sigh...


Im getting to that point...don't worry...but I figure since some want them anyway regardless of better judgement they should have this info available to help weigh that decision.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

Okey doke... I just hate it because MOST people don't know how to handle, train, exercise, etc., a "wolf dog"/hybrid so that they have an awesome quality of life. Most people who own huskies don't exercise them enough, let alone wolf hybrids  

There are always exceptions, of course, so please don't be insulted anyone


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

myminpins said:


> Okey doke... I just hate it because MOST people don't know how to handle, train, exercise, etc., a "wolf dog"/hybrid so that they have an awesome quality of life. Most people who own huskies don't exercise them enough, let alone wolf hybrids
> 
> There are always exceptions, of course, so please don't be insulted anyone



I've had hybrids before. I know what Im talking about.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Pft, Wolf Hybrids are for chumps.

When I grow up I wanna get a full wolf!


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

> *Pft*, Wolf Hybrids are for chumps


Pft???????


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

myminpins said:


> Pft???????


Tsssccchhht.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

Huh??????? I'm missing something here....


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

harrise said:


> Tsssccchhht.


Pppbbbbbbbhhhhhtttttt


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

Oh!!!!! You mean, "pffft"... I get it now... duh me again!!!!!


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

hahaha omg those last few replies totally had me cracking up

You guys be funnay


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

Oh, shut up!!!!

(Meant in the most loving way, of course!!!) ROFL!


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

Zim, I believe most wolf hybrids that are being purchased really aren't hybrids. A lot of people just say they are and sell them as them to get more profit.

I live in Alaska where wolves are everywhere, and their are barely no wolf hybrids up here, and ones sold in the newspaper are obviously just husky mixes.

Just because a dog looks like a wolf, a lot of people assume they may have wolf in them, which isn't true.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Section Three: How to Responsibly Keep WolfDogs.

The first order of business in Responsible Ownership of WolfDogs is to determine if it is legal to own them at all in your area. If it is not and you still desire a Wolfdog.....move. To illegally own such an animal is generally a death sentence for your Pet and heavy fines and possible jailtime for you if caught. 
Many areas have specific lisencing and land requirements for WolfDog ownership. Information on this can generally be found in your area's Animal Control Ordinances. 
The second order of business in Responsible Ownership of WolfDogs is to familiarize yourself in depth with Wolf and Hybrid Behavior and Care. Some excellent resource materials include:

Wolves
* http://www.albany.edu/~knee/wolf.html
* http://grandin.com/references/genetics.html
* The World of the Wolf by Candace Savage

WolfDogs 
*Living With WolfDogs: An Everyday Guide to Lifetime Companionship by Nicole Wilde
*WolfDogs A-Z: Behavior, Training and More by Nicole Wilde 
* http://www.inetdesign.com/wolfdunn/

(in the interest of conserving space, I will leave it at that but recommend that the prospective owner follow through with any and all further resources contained within.)


the third order of business in Responsible Ownership of WolfDogs is to build a suitable enclosure.

*It is recommended that WolfDogs be housed in an enclosure which is made from 8 ft. or higher 11 guage chain link fencing with overhangs and underground dig guards and a minimum of 1600 sq. ft. of floor space. 
*It is recommended that you provide your WolfDog with the companionship of either another WolfDog or canine. These are social animals and do not thrive alone.
*It is recommended that you provide Your WolfDogs with adequate mental stimulation in the form of toys, raised platforms for lounging, perhaps a kiddie pool etc etc...these are extremely intelligent animals who will attempt escape if not provided adequate stimulation.

The fourth order of business in Responsible Ownership of WolfDogs is to know their specialized health needs.

*They generally do not thrive on processed foods and more often than not require a diet of the prey model variety complete with meat, bones and fur.
*It is recommended that you locate a veterinarian familiar with the Care of Wolves and Hybrids. They have specialized health concerns that require knowledgeable attention. Rabies Vaccinations are not accepted as viable for Wolves and WolfDogs.


Stay Tuned for Section Four: Day to Day Concerns


Ps. Quit screwing around on my thread you dopes!!! Someone ought to post all this crap so people know what the heck they are thinking about getting into.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Pepper said:


> Zim, I believe most wolf hybrids that are being purchased really aren't hybrids. A lot of people just say they are and sell them as them to get more profit.
> 
> I live in Alaska where wolves are everywhere, and their are barely no wolf hybrids up here, and ones sold in the newspaper are obviously just husky mixes.
> 
> Just because a dog looks like a wolf, a lot of people assume they may have wolf in them, which isn't true.


The reason you don't see any more true hybrids in alaska where there are more wolves is because they don't freely interbreed. A wolf in the wild will VERY rarely mate with a dog. They have to be put in captivity with the dog under very special circumstances.

It's true, most are not true hybrids, but some are. And for the safety of the owners, they need to treat the situation like they are getting the real deal.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Pepper said:


> Zim, I believe most wolf hybrids that are being purchased really aren't hybrids. A lot of people just say they are and sell them as them to get more profit.
> 
> I live in Alaska where wolves are everywhere, and their are barely no wolf hybrids up here, and ones sold in the newspaper are obviously just husky mixes.
> 
> Just because a dog looks like a wolf, a lot of people assume they may have wolf in them, which isn't true.


There are two breeders near me who breed real hybrids. I know one of them personally...I yell at her often. The Hybrids I had were inherited from a friend who passed away and willed them to me and were of my aquaintence's production.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

myminpins said:


> Oh, shut up!!!!
> 
> (Meant in the most loving way, of course!!!) ROFL!


haha i wasnt so much laughing at you not knowing, more so the boys that just kept going on and on and especially Rbark who, I believe, made up his own...


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

**It is recommended that WolfDogs be housed in an enclosure which is made from 8 ft. or higher 11 guage chain link fencing with overhangs and underground dig guards and a minimum of 1600 sq. ft. of floor space. 
*
Zim all good stuff with one exception. 11gage fencing I would definitely go to 9gage as I have had a couple dogs go through the 11gage.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

I wonder how many people could pick a hybrid out of a lineup. Like the pit quiz thing. I couldn't find one, and now I'm feeling lazy about searching.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Whoops..the words very minimum were intended to be placed in the part concerning the enclosure...Sorry....



harrise said:


> I wonder how many people could pick a hybrid out of a lineup. Like the pit quiz thing. I couldn't find one, and now I'm feeling lazy about searching.



I have one. I will post it in an upcoming section.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

harrise said:


> I wonder how many people could pick a hybrid out of a lineup. Like the pit quiz thing. I couldn't find one, and now I'm feeling lazy about searching.


People think Kobe is a wolf hybrid. always gets me every time. LOL

I know of two Huskies that chewed through 9ga fencing, one being Ollie and the other being OC's Ronan. Soooooooo 9ga is not a guarantee.

(Just saying it's not a wolf thing, it's a dog thing too )


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

RBark said:


> People think Kobe is a wolf hybrid. always gets me every time. LOL
> 
> I know of two Huskies that chewed through 9ga fencing, one being Ollie and the other being OC's Ronan. Soooooooo 9ga is not a guarantee.
> 
> (Just saying it's not a wolf thing, it's a dog thing too )


I know...the guidelines Im posting are based on recommended Wolf enclosures for zoos. and its what I had at the old house when I still had Sharia and her half brothers...


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> This is very dangerous. Why? Because one may purchase a hybrid believing it to be high content when in reality there is little to no Wolf content in the animal at all. They get a wonderful family pet and a false sense of experience.





zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> I've had hybrids before. I know what Im talking about.


The combination of these two excerpts made me giggle.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

It was not meant to correct you as it's great thread. Just a stronger fence program as I am so used to Murphy's Law striking, I am not trying to protect anybody who buys these hybrids to stroke their wolf ownership egos. I could care less about them it's their neighbors I worry about.

Just read about the dogs chewing through the 9ga. I've never had one here but I do not doubt it as a determined dog is an unstoppable force.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Shaina said:


> The combination of these two excerpts made me giggle.



I didn't want them and I didn't buy them. I inherited them. Three malamute Wolf mixes and the product of the stupidest breeding experiment on the face of the planet...a pit bull Wolf mix who was put down because she was flat out vicious.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> I didn't want them and I didn't buy them. I inherited them. Three malamute Wolf mixes and the product of the stupidest breeding experiment on the face of the planet...a pit bull Wolf mix who was put down because she was flat out vicious.


I did not mean to suggest otherwise.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> a pit bull Wolf mix who was put down because she was flat out vicious.


that had to be one goofy lookin thing. we have a wolf hybrid that comes to daycare. one of the nicest dogs there. BUT you can see where it could be a problem when it comes to things such as "no means no"... Riley (the hybrid) thinks "no" means i "growl at you and you change your mind"...not quite Riley. you definately know how to handle him and know what he means by things he does. 

although the thing that gets me is his owners get offended if someone calls him a wolfdog, wolf hybrid, or anything like that. he is "A NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN DOG" ok.... from what i know, NAIDs are either extinct or very rare, and besides that were formed from breeding wolfdogs.... so... i dunno


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Shaina

I didn't nessecarily think that...I just want it made crystal clear that I do not support the breeding of hybrids...But since people are going to do what they are going to do anyway I figure they should have info on how to do it as responsibly as possible. 

----------------------------------------
Section Four: Day to Day Concerns


For the first part of this section I will let Dr. Erich Klinghammer, the Director of Wolf Park do the talking...




> *From the point of view of safety for the general public, as well as the owners, social aggression in hybrids tends to be less of a problem than one would think. An animal may challenge and even bite an owner or familiar person, but the consequences are rarely serious. Predatory behavior is another matter. A socially friendly animal - and pet wolves and wolf x dog hybrids are generally friendly if properly socialized to humans - may nevertheless launch a predatory attack under certain circumstances. If a person runs away, trips or falls, struggles, cries or screams, such behavior is similar to that of prey, and is very likely to result in a predatory attack. Since children are small, they are less intimidating to a wolf or hybrid, and the chance of an attack is increased. Couple this with the propensity - primarily of small boys - to tease such animals if they are behind a fence or on a chain, and the stage is set for disaster. Many children have been attacked. The lucky ones escaped with injuries. Many have died. All these deaths were avoidable. While it is true that the same comments apply to many dogs - who are considered to be the same species - the probability that a pet wolf or hybrid will attack a child is much greater.
> *****Whenever such an attack occurs, it is often national news. A concerned public cries out for laws to outlaw such animals, while the hybrid owners rise up to defend the keeping of these animals - pointing out how friendly they are. Parents are accused of poor supervision - not of the animals, but of the children who are the victims of such attacks. In many instances the owners have been warned beforehand, but such warnings are usually dismissed or ignored. When a child is dead or disfigured for life, one hears: "Gee, I am sorry; I did not know; the animal has never done that before; it is so friendly; it loves children; it is afraid of people; etc." The list of excuses is endless.


Source http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/editorial.html

The prospective Hybrid owner should cement these words in their mind. Period. 

A note on training your Hybrid. 

Due to the sensitive intelligent nature of many Hybrids that can be above and beyond that of a dog.. it is recommended that training be as positive reinforcement based as possible. A full Wolf will not respond well to aversives as a full Wolf is NOT a domesticated creature...hybrids should be handled similar to wolves as they are likely to display more Wolf temperment than Dog Temperment. 


Stay tuned for Section Five: My Thoughts as a former Hybrid Caretaker.


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## katthevamp (Aug 7, 2007)

Are you going to finish?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

yeah....Im working on the last one now...

its a bit hard for me because my wolfhybrid experience starts with tragedy...gets really really happy...and ends on one really tragic note and simultaneously on a happy one...its hard for me to talk about what happened in detail without bawling.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

I had a GSD Malamute mix that people thought was a hybrid. On the other hand my sister had a definite wolf hybrid that they bought as a malamute mix but found out later that it was probably about 85 or so percent wolf. A friend of theirs who's an expert in wolves advised them and CJ lived for 7 years but as she got older, the wolf instincts got stonger and stronger and she finally had to be put down. She never attacked or bit any people, but she became more and more aggressively viscious around dogs and other animals.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

wvasko said:


> **It is recommended that WolfDogs be housed in an enclosure which is made from 8 ft. or higher 11 guage chain link fencing with overhangs and underground dig guards and a minimum of 1600 sq. ft. of floor space.
> *
> Zim all good stuff with one exception. 11gage fencing I would definitely go to 9gage as I have had a couple dogs go through the 11gage.


For a securer chainlink fence I 2nd that. We use 9 gage and it still can't stand up to my dogs if they really want. I think this type of fence is good for many dogs though (like with dig proofing and jump guard). I prefer a wood fence to chainlink and a metal fence over wood. 

I didn't realize that the norm since I know someone who owns hybrids (and dogs too). They didn't have any special confinement. Anyway one of the old ones has passed away and they now have a youngster added (I really want to meet him, hopefully I will). 

Some hybrids are great in the right hands. They are fine to take in public, they are good "pets", therapy dogs, pass temperament test and have a good nature about them. Others are skittish, pushing, high prey instincts and very mishandled. 

I know breeding is a concern too, but also luck of the draw. I guess it is like looking into a dog breed, expect the "worse" and if you don't have to deal with it great. I wouldn't recommend them to most people because of the possibilities. Especially with people breeding them without thought, just to make $. Ugh!

The Saarloos Wolfhond has had some success in being guide dogs. I think many of the Czechoslovakian Wolf Dog breeders have come to great success breeding. The have dogs with the looks of the wolf with less of the wolf temperament or many with the dog like temperament (with some wolf characteristics). Although there is still no guarantee on how a dog will act, might act very dog like and might act much more like a wolf. That is the main thing for me, you can't always have predictability in temperament. Many people are not at all capable of handling a wolf, so they are no more capable of handling a hybrid who acts like a wolf and has a wolf temperament. Especially if they are expecting "he's a hybrid so he will act like a dog and be pretty like a wolf"


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

I lived with a wolf hybrid (named Bjorne) for about a year . . .very strange, and often times scary experiences. He was huge, and for whatever reason, he took to me; really, really liked me. Would stand on his hind legs to greet me when I got home from work, and place his jaws over my face, all the while making moaning groaning sounds, and breathing me in. I had to be VERY careful with my emotions when I was upset with my SO, because Bjorne would stalk him, and once attacked him, drawing blood. 

Bjorne was beautiful, but I would never want one. Too risky.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> For a securer chainlink fence I 2nd that. We use 9 gage and it still can't stand up to my dogs if they really want. I think this type of fence is good for many dogs though (like with dig proofing and jump guard). I prefer a wood fence to chainlink and a metal fence over wood.
> 
> I didn't realize that the norm since I know someone who owns hybrids (and dogs too). They didn't have any special confinement. Anyway one of the old ones has passed away and they now have a youngster added (I really want to meet him, hopefully I will).
> 
> ...



basically its kind of like with Pits...

You don't let your Pits loose, don't leave them alone with other animals etc etc..because while its not a guarantee that they will fight and whatnot...its better to act like they will so it never happens. 

Same with Hybrids. Better to treat them as if they were full wolf to be proactive and make sure everything is safe. 


Im still working on the next section.


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## daysof_inspiration (Jan 21, 2009)

I would never go out of my way to own a wolfdog/wolf hybrid/etc. A wolf is a wild animal and I do not wish to promote having one as a pet. The more you promote it, the more people seek it and try to get one.
My uncle had a wolf hybrid. A very sweet dog to his family but he was territorial and hated when people he didn't know came to the house. If there was a lot of noise such as a party or people just joking around and laughing, he would get terribly upset thinking people were attacking his family. Endearing as it sounds, it was not a good thing. I loved the dog but I trusted him about as far as I could throw him. (haha, not literally).

That is not to say I would ever be mean to one or that it the future I would never adopt one from a shelter (ya never know what you get your hands on in such places as a dogs history is unknown. You could very well end up with one and not even know it) however I would never seek to have one. I just do not find it fair and in all honesty, believe it should be illegal. 

I think this forum does very well to show people that wolf dogs are not a good idea. Dogs in general are hard enough work (haha), a wolf is a whole other story!


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Great information here!!! I agree with everything the OP stated... thank you for posting this. 

My foster Yuki was a wolfdog, low-content (about 25%), but he was still the most intense dog I have ever met. I still think it's amazing that such a small amount of wolf ancestry can give a dog such unique characteristics, both physically and mentally; I know that unless I someday come across a very special, "exception-to-the-rule" wolfdog, I would never be prepared to own a higher-content animal. I knew what I was getting into when I offered to foster him, but nonetheless, he was very challenging. He was not a "mislabeled" hybrid, either - I was fostering him for a national wolfdog rescue network. 

Not all low-contents are as challenging as he was, however; he came from a terrible man who abused and neglected him. But, the potential is there in any wolfdog (or dog for that matter)... one considering a wolfdog should expect normal "dog" behaviors to be amplified, reactions and reaction times to be intensified, and body language to be clearer and often, more to-the-point. This can make them intimidating and difficult to handle for most people. Calmness and the ability to think through a stressful situation was key for me when dealing with Yuki. 

I also want to say that Yuki was also the most rewarding and incredible animal I have ever worked with, despite the issues I worked on with him. I still get chills and goosebumps when I think of some of the memories I have locked away from my short time with him. He was incredibly sensitive, intelligent, and was able to communicate with me more effectively than any other dog I have known.

I don't think ownership of wolfdogs should be illegal, because there are many, many sweet ones out there who desperately need rescue, and if they are banned there isn't anywhere for them to go. I think the comparison with Pits is a good one - the majority of breeders out there are completely irresponsible, with no regard to the animals' health, stability, or temperament. Like hybrids, Pits are often euthanized in shelters with no regards to their individual temperaments, or outlawed from adoption due to BSL. I think this is a shame. Adequate containment laws, and dangerous dog laws, should be in place to protect the public, without resorting to BSL (but that is another issue altogether).

They are a special "breed" that requires a different level of committment and understanding than other dogs, and for the right person, they can be a good match; but just like any other dog, the majority of people who acquire them are not prepared to accept their "quirks" or special needs. 

I would recommend any prospective owner to buy Nicole Wilde's two books on wolfdogs - "Wolfdogs A - Z" and "Living with Wolfdogs". Not only are they excellent for wolfdog owners, but I think they are absolutely terrific for Northern breed owners too! Oh, and as an aside, I think anyone considering a wolfdog should have some experience with Northern breeds or other high-energy, high-prey breeds first.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Nekomi.. was it a behavioral issue or medical issue that Yuki succombed to? Or something unrelated? I really hope you don't mind me asking.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

That is no problem at all! I don't mind you asking. 

EDIT: I posted his whole story here, then thought better of that and moved it to the Memorial forum. In short, I will say it was a medical reason that was related to a behavioral issue he was dealing with. 

You can read about it on Yuki's memorial thread... I just don't want to clog up this educational thread with my personal story. 

By the way, if anyone on this forum is considering a wolfdog and has questions, PLEASE do not hesitate to PM me. I'm sure the OP would say the same. I'd be happy to share the knowledge I do have, and point you to other people and resources who will give you an honest look at what it is like to live with these animals.

And one more thing... PLEASE, please consider rescue before you go out and buy that "wolfdog" pup from a breeder. These animals are in a crisis here in the US due to irresponsible breeders and uneducated owners, and many are dumped and pawned off on shelters, with nowhere for them to go.

First off, many breeders who claim to have wolfdogs, are actually breeding Husky and Malamute mixes. Or, the percentages are grossly overstated, leading to misinformation and the belief that your dog has more wolf than it really does. This causes problems later, when you go to buy a 2nd one somewhere else - and this one is actually the real McCoy! 

With a rescue, you will know exactly what you are getting in terms of temperament and looks, versus a young, unknown pup that can run the gamut and has not reached maturity. In addition, a wolfdog rescue network will thoroughly grill you prior to adoption and make sure you are qualified to take on that particular animal. And I want to say that the support network is wonderful; they will help you through any snafus and be there for you throughout the process. I can't say the same for many breeders.


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## Blizzard (Jan 18, 2009)

I've been reading all the info and wolf hybrid experiences and what I gather is that it is possible to keep wolfs as pets provided you done your recearch on them and know how dangerous they are. I guess my perants shouldn't have took on our wolf a few years back because at the time I had younger brothers and our wolf was so huge she could injure them by jumping on them in play. Luckily she did nothing of that sought.
Thanks Zim for all the wolf hybrid info. Please go on. And do you still have your wolf hybrid? I'd really like to see pics of him/her.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Hey Blizzard, thanks for chiming in. 



> I've been reading all the info and wolf hybrid experiences and what I gather is that it is possible to keep wolfs as pets provided you done your recearch on them and know how dangerous they are.


Really quick, we need to make sure make a real distinction between a pure wolf, and a wolfdog. There is a vast, vast difference between the two, and a huge difference even between two wolfdogs with different amounts of wolf blood. Calling a wolfdog a "wolf" isn't at all correct; the dog ancestry absolutely must be considered and acknowledged as well. 

Pure wolves are never pets; wolfdogs, not always... the wolfdog that you can take anywhere, rides calmly in your car, loves everyone they meet, adores new experiences, and is happy living in the house, is a wish that doesn't always come true (I would say very rarely, depending on the animal). Wolfdogs with very little wolf content can often act *mostly* like a dog, but it's not wise to believe that this is the norm.

Wolfdogs can be companions, they can be deeply-bonded friends, but I would say they are usually not "pets". Owning a wolfdog means living with a different set of rules, re-forming your lifestyle around their needs and their behaviors. It means great sacrifices of time, money, effort, and comfort. 



> I guess my perants shouldn't have took on our wolf a few years back because at the time I had younger brothers and our wolf was so huge she could injure them by jumping on them in play. Luckily she did nothing of that sought.


Please remember that most animals labeled as "wolves" or "wolfdogs" are actually Northern breed mixes. Without the assessment of an expert (and even then), it's nearly impossible to say for sure.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

no. I no longer have hybrids.

One of them is dead. the others are living with someone who can are for them properly. I cannot.

I was going to tell my story but I can't. It hurts. Im not ready. I don't know if I will ever be.

I will say this.

I wasn't ready for them. I wasn't ready for the responsibility that having them forced me into. It was too much. and while the love of these animals was like nothing I have ever known, the price I paid for not being ready was very very steep.

If you are reading this and considering a Hybrid....

PLEASE BE PREPARED.


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## Blizzard (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks for correcting me Nekomi. I don't know too much about wolves/wolf hybrids


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

The wolf-hybrid that I had personal experience with and who bit my wife and severed an artery which If not gotten to ER in time could have been tragic. This dog was purchased as a young pup by a young man and ended up on a chain and dog house outside a house trailer. Approximately 2 yrs of age when I received a call (from parents)and was asked if I wanted the wolf-hybrid. (the young man had gone off on an adventure and left dog for parents to care for) Being a younger, arrogant (mid forties) rascal I thought there was nothing that I could not train. I'm not going to get into the training side of the story as quite frankly there was none. Every day was like a brand new day with nothing retained. The wife got bit(her fault) she was where she did not belong and paid the price of not listening. The interesting part is 6 months later the young gentleman got back in our area and called to see if we still had the dog. We did as he was better off with us than anybody else because he was kenneled in a safe environment. I told young man to come out and see his dog and when he got there the dog completely went bananas in a good way. There was a bond there. He took dog and 7 years later dog died naturally.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

RBark said:


> When I grow up I wanna get a full wolf!


You just won at life sire


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## katthevamp (Aug 7, 2007)

To both of you: If it doesn't hurt too much, how were your wolfdogs differnt than normal dogs?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

behaviors were far more intense. 

like when you click train a dog and you are charging the clicker and the dog gets into it and gets all excited...it wasn't like that at all...

I was the intensive center of the universe as long as I was interesting. I couldn't be amusing with the same thing. once something had been done that was it. it had been done so it was no longer worth wasting time on. this wasn't a master/pet kind of relationship. it was a Queen on a throne and I was the favored court jester.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

It may be variable from wolf hybrid to wolf hybrid, some of them might have a wilder instinct on them and some others a more family dog instinct to them..

A member here own a wolf hybrid called Cain, and from what i've heard he loves him to death and it's been a joy to train.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Erick Aguilar said:


> It may be variable from wolf hybrid to wolf hybrid, some of them might have a wilder instinct on them and some others a more family dog instinct to them..
> 
> A member here own a wolf hybrid called Cain, and from what i've heard he loves him to death and it's been a joy to train.


there are a few factors that play into what kind of behaviors you _could_ get from your hybrid...

a. did you actually get a real hybrid instead of a pup from a lying BYB who is actually breeding huskyxshepherd mixes?

b. How much of the dog is dog and how much is wolf?

c. Did the genetic roulette wheel deal you the wolf behavior or the dog behavior or a mixed bag filled with pieces of both?

and that is the problem if you get a *PUPPY*.

there is no way to know until the animal matures.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> To both of you: If it doesn't hurt too much, how were your wolfdogs differnt than normal dogs?


That is a terrific question! I agree 100% with what was posted already, especially in regards to the intensity of behaviors. 

Anything Yuki did was more intense, to-the-point, and clear; he was very direct in everything he did, had a faster reaction time and a lower reaction threshold. His communication was extremely direct, which is a benefit because he "wore his heart on his sleeve" but could also be intimidating because he was so "in your face" or "forward". I don't really know how to explain it adequately.

Secondly, you could tell he thought things through and gave a lot of thought to everything you asked him, then decided if it was worth doing. Even more so than a Husky or another independant-thinking breed. He wanted to please and he never came across as rebellious, just as apathetic or indifferent, or, at times, just plain disinterested in what you wanted to do and he made that clear. 

I think the biggest difference of all, though, was his stress threshold. He was much more skittish than a normal dog, and more insecure (though this depends on the individual in question and how they were raised). He was prone to pacing and obsessive behavior (following a path and jumping on the same spot on the door, over and over) when he became anxious. This is common in wolfdogs with significant wolf content who are rescued from bad situations - they don't know how to get rid of excess stress or anxiety, so repetitive behavior emerges. He was starting to get over this by the time he passed away, but it was a huge difference to see him act this way.

As for the positives that were different? First, he was an incredibly fast learner. He generalized things WAY easier than a normal dog. He learned sit in one day - taught with a clicker - and generalized it in 3 days. I'll never forget how astonished I was when I was standing outside his kennel and he wanted me to come in. He was trying every method to get my attention, and then just suddenly a lightbulb went off, and he sat and stayed there quietly focused on me. 3 days after learning sit for the first time in his life, he had already realized that this was the desired behavior that gets him the things he wants. It was amazing.

Another difference would be their sensitivity... this can be a benefit and a great relationship tool for a good handler, a disaster for an ignorant or abusive person. Basically, Yuki was much much more attuned to my body language, posture, voice, stress level, and general emotional state than any other dog I've known. Simple things like leaning slightly backwards while sitting, as opposed to slouching forward, made a significant difference in his comfort level around me. I think that a good working knowledge of canine body language, and the ability to utilize calming signals, is essential when working with these dogs.

Another plus is a wolfdog's natural ability to get along in a pack... aside from female/female groups which are a huge recipe for disaster with wolfdogs (worse than domestic dogs), most wolfdogs are hugely social with other dogs, display good manners, and clear canine body language. They generally play very well with others due to their heightened pack nature.

One thing that's hard to explain, but was extremely evident with Yuki, was this underlying sense that he was constantly evaluating or searching me for something. I don't know if this was him learning to trust, and questioning what was going on, or if it was simply his nature to carefully and closely observe people in his environment. Sometimes I had the sense that he knew me very, very well; as if he knew exactly what my confidence level, commitment to a task, or even emotional state was at any given time. Ever see a photo of a wolf or wolfdog, and get the sense that those eyes are wise, and looking right through you? That's the feeling I consistently had with Yuki, as if he was able to look right past my face and see my intentions, my frame of mind, my ability at that moment (or sometimes lack thereof) to be his leader, caretaker, or friend. I felt very connected with him.

Things that were not different... Yuki was affectionate and needed attention, love, and exercise just like any dog. He was enthusiastic about learning new things - wouldn't get bored like another poster mentioned, but would definitely want to know "what's in it for him". He had a similar prey drive level as most huskies as known (actually a bit less). He loved to be brushed, loved his ears scratched, loved an occasional belly rub when I could get him into a really relaxed mood. He walked beautifully on-leash, and traveled great in the car (though this is not the case with all wolfdogs). 

If Yuki had been raised properly from puppyhood and not been abused/neglected, I really do believe he would have been a wonderful animal and a great ambassador for his kind. Even with his awful past, he managed to come around so much.

If I ever get the oppurtunity, I would foster, or even adopt, another wolfdog. But the huge caveat is that I would only look into adults whose personalities were already established, and I would be very picky. Regardless, though, I think there are quite a few sweet wolfdogs out there who need homes, and not enough homes for them. So, since I know the "breed", they are legal where I live, and I enjoy them enough to deal with the issues/quirks, I feel it's only right for me to help if I can.

I hope all this info was helpful!


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Thanks for posting about Yuki - a fascinating story. I've done a fair amount of reading about wolves and dogs and the similarities and differences between the two, but your posts really help illustrate it. It would be interesting to force people to pick dogs based soley on temperament and not let them see what the dog actually looks like until after the choice is made -- it would be pretty funny seing what people end up with. Probably not a whole lot of hybrids, to be sure!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Yuki sounds like Sharia in some ways but some ways not.

this is the basics. the details aren't really important and they aren't something I feel would be right to share. I am crying as I write this.

She was imperious. In any group of canines she was the undisputed alpha. She wasn't aggressive with them at all just her presence was overpowering. She liked to play tricks on me, hiding things and sudden behavior switches and so forth.

She would not leave her enclosure willingly. And she had to be muzzled when anyone else was around because if other people made sudden movement she would snap. She had panic attacks in cars and in public places. I got the impression that she considered the enclosure her territory and thus was the reason she didn't want to leave. She was VERY smart but got easily bored. If she wasn't in the mood for something then nothing would make her budge. 

The others...her half brothers were very aloof and sedate. They would play with each other and tussle but they ignored me for the most part. 

Sharia became increasingly violent towards strangers. If anyone else came near the enclosure more and more she would stalk them like prey through the fence. 

She died during an attempt to attack a child. I wounded her pretty badly. I had to have AC come out and tranq her to be taken away and put down. 

her brothers went to live with a biologist who had studied wolves. They are doing well there last I heard.


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

Alright before I start 1. this post is older than dirt and no one probably has even looked at it in ages 2. I'm really not trying to offend anyone in any way. But I've noticed that looking through this entire thread that most all of you people that are "against" the ownership of a wolfdog had gotten them from someone else who was deemed unfit or uncaring to be taking care of such an animal.

And that is where it all lies in. If you had read as much as you preach that you had then you would've known that they are pack animals! Therefore relocating them to a different person is a HUGE stress on the animal and likely the reason why you had such a horrible experience with the animal.

These animals build a bond with their owner that is no where near the relationship you have with a dog. They can read your mind and know exactly how you feel at all times and will actually attempt to cheer you up! So my bit of advice for anyone thinking of buying/adopting/rescuing one of these animals be sure you're ready for this lifetime commitment because if not you're best bet is going to be to put the animal down and do you really want to live with that on your conscience?

That being said I do really appreciate the post and concern that people have for the animal as well as the human safety. All in all though as long as you're the first and only person to house the animal you shouldn't have a whole lot to worry about. Just remember to socialize the wolfdog like you would any other dog.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

bite, we have some VERY knowlegable wolfdog people here, a couple that do rescue as well and being proud owners. It's not that we don't think people should own them, it's that ownership entails resposibilties that MOST people aren't up to. Socailization doesn't always do the trick as far as a wolfdogs go. The 'wolfier' the personality the less socailization that can be done successfully.


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

Right! I agree 110%, MOST people aren't ready/understand all of the responsibilities that come with them, but throughout the thread I got a very strong impression that it was to steer people away from even THINKING that wolfdogs are okay. And again you're right about the 'wolfier' a wolfdog is the more chance there is they may get the wild wolf temperament. I would say for anyone interested in getting a wolfdog please check with the shelter/breeder how many generations the pup is away from the full wolf that started it. The more generations the less 'wolfy' the dog will be.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

bitemeoftn said:


> Right! I agree 110%, MOST people aren't ready/understand all of the responsibilities that come with them, but throughout the thread I got a very strong impression that it was to steer people away from even THINKING that wolfdogs are okay. And again you're right about the 'wolfier' a wolfdog is the more chance there is they may get the wild wolf temperament. I would say for anyone interested in getting a wolfdog please check with the shelter/breeder how many generations the pup is away from the full wolf that started it. The more generations the less 'wolfy' the dog will be.


Again, not always true. I've seen high contents with VERY dog like personalities and low contents with very wolf personalities. It matters more about the hybrids the breeder chooses to have in the program to breed for temperament. Nekomi currently has a foster that's high content and very dog like, has been socailized extensively and would be suitable for someone just starting into Wolfdogs (I'd take him in a second if I had my own place and the set up) and I believe she aslo has a low content that is one of her hardest to handle. 

Also most shelters will NOT have a clue to content, many will hear that a dog possibly HAS content and put them down without consulting anyone that's knowlegable on identification. The ONLY answer to someone looking to own a Wolfdog is research, get to KNOW people who are knowlegable and be around the type so you know what to look for, what it takes to properly contain and maintain a wolfdog and what kind of resposiblities you could be taking on even in a LOW content dog.


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

I didn't say content. I said generation lol. Again don't want to seem disagreeable because I'm really not and I don't want to offend anyone. Just stating that especially with breeders they start with one generation then bring in other wolfdogs of the same hybrid. The further down the gene pool it is the more wolf is sort of "worked out". Couldn't really come up with much better wording on the spot. But again these animals are one person/family animals. Deciding that they're too much trouble and giving them to your local humane society is NOT an option as the animal will either have a horrible time re-adjusting or just not re-adjust at all. Yes the content percentage of the wolf over the dog doesn't have too much to say on temperament. More generational breeding will have a better temperament animal. These animals are AMAZING and I've been working like crazy with a breeder that is local to me to learn as much as I can about these animals. I'll be taking on one of these animals really soon and will update throughout with my own experiences being the sole owner this dog will have. One other big thing I've been forgetting to mention is they are VERY social animals so usually need someone with them be it person, another dog, or even a guinea pig! They need someone around. Remember the "lone wolf" is just a myth. It doesn't really happen in nature. They may be alone for a period, but it's only until they find a pack to be with.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah definite wrong impression. I would try reading the posts then responding. Also opinions can change a lot in two years though I saw nothing indicating no one should own WDs.


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## Polywoggy (Mar 7, 2011)

Zim... 

I lived with my ex's wolfdog Sheba for 3 years. Willow was raised with her. My ex found her in a shelter as an older pup, they had plans to destroy her, but he talked them into letting him have her. She must have been lower-content because she had one blue eye. I have read that high contents cannot have blue eyes, but I may be wrong. I know nothing about wolfdogs except for my personal experience with Sheba who in most ways acted like the Husky that she predominately was.

The problems we encountered with her were sometimes escaping, but that is a Husky thing too. We finally got the fenced portion of our property escape-proof which was a relief. We knew she could take care of herself, but she would come back with cats. She also would come back with other dogs food dishes that had been left on porches and such.

Our main problem with her was how she acted in the "pack". I know there is much debate about the "alpha", and while the 3 Goldens we had did not display those types of behaviours, Sheba certainly did. Willow's dam Cinnamon had 3 litters, and with each litter Cinnamon had, Sheba's behaviour towards Cinnamon became increasingly aggressive. Once pups were weaned, Sheba would no longer let Cinnamon interact with them, and she took over. A pup was kept from the 2nd litter which was Sky, and I kept Willow from the 3rd and last litter. Even when Sky and Willow were grown, I would bring Sheba in the house with me for a couple of hours a day to let Cinnamon have some play time with her daughters. Sheba played a lot with Sky and her behaviour towards Willow was strange. She would never correct her. She would just sit back and study Willow. Willow was smarter and more confident than Sky. I kind of wonder if Sheba had it in her head to groom Willow as the next "alpha". Perhaps she was waiting to see if Willow would challenge her, which she never did, thankfully.
Sheba and Cinnamon had a few scraps in which Cinnamon would quickly submit and then it would be over, but each time it happened Cinnamon held out a little longer. I wonder if Cinnamon had just finally had enough of taking Sheba's crap. It came to a head one day over a GSDx foster pup that we had. Sheba accepted him right away. She liked him, a new pup for her to "train" I guess. Cinnamon was not too thrilled to have him around, I don't blame her. She'd had enough of puppies, and this one was not her own. She snapped at the pup one day and this time Sheba attacked her more fiercely than ever before. We are sure she would have killed her if she were not stopped. My ex got badly bitten in the process of separating them. The vet that treated Cinnamon's injuries said that the bites on Cinnamon were different than normal dog bites. He said the teeth that did it were sharper, like razors. Cinnamon recovered, luckily she was a big girl and actually outweighed Sheba by a good 20 lbs, but we had to keep them forever separated after that. We had a large house and property, so it was doable. I wonder if it is true that only the alpha female of a wolf pack is allowed to have puppies? It would explain why Sheba had such a problem with Cinnamon anyways. One thing that kind of freaked me out after my ex left with Cinnamon to the vet after the fight, Sheba stared at me, then walked over to Cinnamon's food dish, lifted her leg like a male, and pissed all over it.

Sheba was always fine with people. Uninterested in strangers, but would politely stand to be petted by them, gentle with children. She only acted viciously towards a couple of men that tried to steal Willow's litter out of an outside kennel. If it were not for Sheba, my Willow would have never been mine.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

I just wanted to pop in and clarify... I own no high-contents, but I have two mid's (Tacoma and my current foster) and a possible low content (Willow). Willow is arguably the most difficult, but not because of wolf content; just because of dog-reactivity issues. Tacoma is pathologically shy and terrified of strangers, but otherwise very sweet and relaxed, and easy to handle. The foster is wonderful in new settings and around strangers - SUPER well-socialized - but "intense" in his behaviors and doesn't think twice about testing people. So, my point is that they are individuals just as much as any dog breed... generalizations just don't work for these guys. 

I've learned a lot more about woofers since I first posted in this thread, but really the main point remains the same - these are AMAZING animals in the right hands, and an utter disaster in the wrong hands. I love them deeply but I also understand the kind of sacrifice and special care that they require.


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm really happy there are so many people that are willing to come back to a thread that has been dead for a few years. Lots has changed pertaining to wolf dogs since it was started back when. I would just like to thank you people that have come back and left your comments/opinions on the matter.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

bitemeoftn said:


> Right! I agree 110%, MOST people aren't ready/understand all of the responsibilities that come with them, but throughout the thread I got a very strong impression that it was to steer people away from even THINKING that wolfdogs are okay. And again you're right about the 'wolfier' a wolfdog is the more chance there is they may get the wild wolf temperament. I would say for anyone interested in getting a wolfdog please check with the shelter/breeder how many generations the pup is away from the full wolf that started it. The more generations the less 'wolfy' the dog will be.


if joe blow can't handle a chihuahua...and suddenly gets into his head he wants a wolfdog....you think thats going to turn out pretty?

yes i want to scare >>**certain**<< people away from wolfdogs. not in the "theyre nasty horrid creatures" way. in the "you better be knowing what youre getting yourself into before you get into it" way.

i do the same thing for my pit bulls. and for people who start drooling when i mention falconry...etcetc.

as for the rest of your comments...ill get to those later.


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> if joe blow can't handle a chihuahua...and suddenly gets into his head he wants a wolfdog....you think thats going to turn out pretty?
> 
> yes i want to scare >>**certain**<< people away from wolfdogs. not in the "theyre nasty horrid creatures" way. in the "you better be knowing what youre getting yourself into before you get into it" way.
> 
> ...


I look forward to hearing from you.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Section Two: Buyer Beware!!!!!!
> 
> The purchase of a WolfDog pup is tricky tricky business. There are many who claim to breed Hybrids who misrepresent content levels in their animals. This misrepresentation makes purchasing a Hybrid dangerous because it gives owners a false sense of their own experience with these animals.
> 
> ...


I've actually done up a couple of pages for buyers to beware of because of this, its lists all the rip off artists out there that are claiming they're animals are higher content wolfdogs when in reality they are nothing more then low contents or straight up dog. 
Here is the list of bad breeders, I had to take off my reasoning for such because one of them kept crying to the web host and they were going to shut the page down. http://virginiawolves.webs.com/
But this forum on the other hand i was able to list the list with its reasons why on it http://wolfdogforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1035


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## mountain woman (Jun 8, 2011)

I just think that whole concept is askew
But, it would be cool to have one. ; )


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## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

I want to thank the main contributors to this thread who have shared their experiences. You made me feel more confident about a decision I've taken recently.

I had an hybrid (50% wolf, 50% husky) in my home for a few days. We found two dogs who had been left to themselves for two weeks in a house. The cops asked me to take care of the hybrid while they tracked down the owner.

The dog was great while she was with me. Nice 4 months old puppy who seemed to appreciate the change of situation. She learned fast how it worked in my home, got along great with Dexter and caused no problem whatsoever. When the owner came back, I got offered the chance to keep her. I said no mostly out of financial reasons and because I already have a dog with "special needs", but it broke my heart to let her go with the same owner who took such bad care of her. Reading this, I would have admitted it would have been possibly too much for me.

But I also feel a tad worried knowing there are two hybrid puppies in town. Both owners don't even meet their basic dog meets, let alone the needs of an hybrid. I hope nothing bad happens.

She was a really nice puppy though


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Zoopie said:


> I want to thank the main contributors to this thread who have shared their experiences. You made me feel more confident about a decision I've taken recently.
> 
> I had an hybrid (50% wolf, 50% husky) in my home for a few days. We found two dogs who had been left to themselves for two weeks in a house. The cops asked me to take care of the hybrid while they tracked down the owner.
> 
> ...


Adorable pup. But 50% wolf? Really? For one thing, I don't think wolves come in recessive liver. I had some really nice people who lived behind me who had a couple of supposed hybrids. One looked like a GSD mix and one looked like an Akita mix. Nice dogs. Every time you talked to them the wolf % got higher. I think they were nearly pure wolf by the time their people moved away. I have had a couple of real hybrids in class. They are wonderfully intelligent, but I sure wouldn't recommend them for the average pet owner.


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## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

The backyard breeder is a weird man known around town. He lives in a camp without electricity near town and keeps a wolf on site, as a semi-pet. He sometimes breed the wolf with one of his dogs to make money back in civilization. When he is left with some puppies, he gives them to people in town. He's a crazy crazy man, but I've visited his camp once and saw the definite wolf.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Zoopie said:


> I want to thank the main contributors to this thread who have shared their experiences. You made me feel more confident about a decision I've taken recently.
> 
> I had an hybrid (50% wolf, 50% husky) in my home for a few days. We found two dogs who had been left to themselves for two weeks in a house. The cops asked me to take care of the hybrid while they tracked down the owner.
> 
> ...


I'm no wolf expert, but I can tell you with 99% certaintly that the dog you're showing us pictures of is NOT 50% wolf. I doubt there's ANY wolf in there.


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

LOL there is ZERO and I mean ZERO wolf in that dog. Cute but no wolf


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## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

Eh who knows. The crazy man does have a wolf (pure wolf I can recognize ha) and the puppies are kinda known around town. Any wolfdog expert has an opinion?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Zoopie said:


> The backyard breeder is a weird man known around town. He lives in a camp without electricity near town and keeps a wolf on site, as a semi-pet. He sometimes breed the wolf with one of his dogs to make money back in civilization. When he is left with some puppies, he gives them to people in town. He's a crazy crazy man, but I've visited his camp once and saw the definite wolf.


Well then, I think one of his girl dogs avoided Mr. Wolf and found something Canis Familiaris to have puppies with.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Zoopie said:


> Eh who knows. The crazy man does have a wolf (pure wolf I can recognize ha) and the puppies are kinda known around town. Any wolfdog expert has an opinion?


Wolf experts: http://wolfpark.org/ccpage2.shtml


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## bieberfans_dog (Aug 1, 2011)

high content hybrid whose behavior and characteristics lean more towards the Wolf ancestry....really scared of me. well, the breeds I like are golden retriever, samoyed and husky,they are more safer.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

bieberfans_dog said:


> high content hybrid whose behavior and characteristics lean more towards the Wolf ancestry....really scared of me. well, the breeds I like are golden retriever, samoyed and husky,they are more safer.


Wolf Hybrids are fine in the right hands and when responsibly bred (just like any other dog).


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> Wolf Hybrids are fine in the right hands and when responsibly bred (just like any other dog).


Please read the above and "right hands" does not mean self awarding ones self with a wishful thinking experience needed to have the title of "right hands wolf hybrid owner/handler" 

I would think it means having actual real life hands on experience. Sorry don't mean to be repetitive, but the fingers/hands you save could be your own. I'm just sayin'..


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Zoopie said:


> Eh who knows. The crazy man does have a wolf (pure wolf I can recognize ha) and the puppies are kinda known around town. Any wolfdog expert has an opinion?


Will you try and get a picture of this pure wolf. I dont mean any disrespect, but most people can not tell a wolf from a malamute. I dont know how many times I've seen people claim pure wolves and the animals will have blue eyes or bi eyed, curled tail, pink pads, white nails, rear dew claws, a stop, etc. etc. 
That puppy is no where near a mid content wolfdog, if it has any wolf at all in it, it is very very little.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Zoopie said:


>


Not a lick of wolf in that pup! Ears, feet and coat are completely WRONG!!!!!

anyone thinking of getting a wolf Hybrid needs to go here and check the guidleine of keeping a Wolf Hybrid download and READ IT.
http://wolfpark.org/wolfhybridarticles.shtml


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

Cindy23323 said:


> Will you try and get a picture of this pure wolf. I dont mean any disrespect, but most people can not tell a wolf from a malamute. I dont know how many times I've seen people claim pure wolves and the animals will have blue eyes or bi eyed, curled tail, pink pads, white nails, rear dew claws, a stop, etc. etc.
> That puppy is no where near a mid content wolfdog, if it has any wolf at all in it, it is very very little.


Could you please come to Ohio and tell this guy that lives down the road from me that lol. He has a "supposed" German Shepherd/Coyote mix. Which has white nails, curled tail, and a pink nose. I can't seem to get through to him no matter how hard I try to tell him and even show him pictures of REAL mixes.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well as I've traveled through life I have met many men with women that have been hit vigorously with an ugly stick and many women with men that were also hit with same stick. I have always wondered what these people saw when looking at their partners in life. (with the face I'm carrying around I am an expert on ugly) Maybe the eyes just see what they see and dogs turning into half wolves is what they see and this is without the long discussion on the ego enhancement going on if you brag about owning a half wolf. Just let them live on with their hopes and dreams.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

wvasko said:


> Well as I've traveled through life I have met many men with women that have been hit vigorously with an ugly stick and many women with men that were also hit with same stick. I have always wondered what these people saw when looking at their partners in life. (with the face I'm carrying around I am an expert on ugly) Maybe the eyes just see what they see and dogs turning into half wolves is what they see and this is without the long discussion on the ego enhancement going on if you brag about owning a half wolf. Just let them live on with their hopes and dreams.


For one reason it is dangerous. Why do you say is it dangerous, well here's one example of many that I could give.
Joe Blow has what he calls his pure wolf or high content wolfdog who is nothing more then a gsd/malamute/husky mix out walking him. He's telling everyone he comes acrossed that his animal is a high content wolfdog. These people see how easy it is for Joe Blow to have such an animal and now want one for themselves. So they go out and get one, only this time this person ends up with the real deal. Now the animal is eatting they're home. Getting constantly sick on the walmart dog food they're feeding him. They decide to throw him out back in they're inadequate 6 ft. privacey fence, that he now escaped from because he wasn't in a wolfdog style fencing. Now he ends up dead.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well I understand the danger involved but decided a very long time ago that I am not my brother's keeper. If somebody wants to buy a wolf hybrid because somebody else has one, I kinda think it's like the old saying that parents often use on their kids that have done something stupid "well, if you see somebody jumping off a bridge are you gonna jump off one too" Besides that I am old school, sometimes people got to jump in and learn themselves the dangers in life.

I have stated before on DF that my Don Quixote days of wandering around the country looking for windmills to battle are over.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

myminpins said:


> Oh!!!!! You mean, "pffft"... I get it now... duh me again!!!!!


remember, its the "touch" that snaps him out of it


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

Cindy23323 said:


> For one reason it is dangerous. Why do you say is it dangerous, well here's one example of many that I could give.
> Joe Blow has what he calls his pure wolf or high content wolfdog who is nothing more then a gsd/malamute/husky mix out walking him. He's telling everyone he comes acrossed that his animal is a high content wolfdog. These people see how easy it is for Joe Blow to have such an animal and now want one for themselves. So they go out and get one, only this time this person ends up with the real deal. Now the animal is eatting they're home. Getting constantly sick on the walmart dog food they're feeding him. They decide to throw him out back in they're inadequate 6 ft. privacey fence, that he now escaped from because he wasn't in a wolfdog style fencing. Now he ends up dead.


I really appreciate this post. You're totally right somebody not knowing what they're actually looking at would believe him in what he has. Fortunately, he's a moron, and the dog is out of control so HOPEFULLY that would be enough to steer other stupid people away from even attempting it. Of course that's probably all just wishful thinking, but a guy can still dream! lol


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## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

God I hope you guys are right about the puppy I previously posted about.

Even if she's a low content, it's a huge recipe for disaster. The dog is back in town. She gets a 30 minutes walk every two days, top. She's inside a house the rest of the time. With a 2 year old kid. I've heard she got quite destructive and forgot she was house trained. Breaks my heart.

I'm worried even if it turns out she's just a hyper nordic puppy. If she has some wolf instincts on top of this....this won't end well.


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## OliveSheprador (Jul 14, 2011)

Why would someone ever want to own a wolf-hybrid, is my question

There are so many dogs - so many breeds of DOMESTICATED dogs - so many DOMESTIC wolf-lookalikes - why someone wants to take a wolf-dog with relatively recent lineage to the wolf (not from the stock of dogs we have today that's been domesticated from wild dogs/wolves for thousands of years) doesn't make sense to me. It screams "I JUST WANT TO BE COOL AND DIFFERENT AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAN HANDLE A WOLF DOG - LOOK AT ME" and it's not an appropriate pet ever, in my opinion - really, it's just a "badge" for some people, clearly, even in those who probably are "experienced" enough to handle them. 99.99999999% of people, I bet, cannot handle this mix, probably including you. It's not an insult to your ability to understand/relate/train/live with DOGS - this is not a DOG, it's a wolf mix, a totally different animal.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

OliveSheprador said:


> Why would someone ever want to own a wolf-hybrid, is my question
> 
> There are so many dogs - so many breeds of DOMESTICATED dogs - so many DOMESTIC wolf-lookalikes - why someone wants to take a wolf-dog with relatively recent lineage to the wolf (not from the stock of dogs we have today that's been domesticated from wild dogs/wolves for thousands of years) doesn't make sense to me. It screams "I JUST WANT TO BE COOL AND DIFFERENT AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAN HANDLE A WOLF DOG - LOOK AT ME" and it's not an appropriate pet ever, in my opinion - really, it's just a "badge" for some people, clearly, even in those who probably are "experienced" enough to handle them. 99.99999999% of people, I bet, cannot handle this mix, probably including you. It's not an insult to your ability to understand/relate/train/live with DOGS - this is not a DOG, it's a wolf mix, a totally different animal.


There are people out there who enjoy owning them and do right by their animals. There are people on this forum who have woofers that have appropriate set ups and ability to care for them. It's like people who care for large parrots, or I have owned and will own tarantulas again.


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## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

Here is a picture of the other pretended wolfdog in town. He's supposed to be the brother of the other pretended wolfdog I dogsat a few weeks ago.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

He is simply gorgeous but I would be shocked if he had any wolf in him. My god, that coloring!


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> There are people out there who enjoy owning them and do right by their animals. There are people on this forum who have woofers that have appropriate set ups and ability to care for them. It's like people who care for large parrots, or I have owned and will own tarantulas again.


No, it's frickin' not.

When was the last time you've heard of a large parrot _killing_ someone? Or a tarantula doing the same?

I'm sure there are people who have the means and knowledge to contain a Siberian Tiger, but does that mean it should be legal for anyone????

No.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

IWlover said:


> No, it's frickin' not.
> 
> When was the last time you've heard of a large parrot _killing_ someone? Or a tarantula doing the same?
> 
> ...


Hmm, then it should also be illegal to own/breed Bengals and Savannahs I guess, they're all exotic hybrids with special needs, oh and it is the same as responsibly breeding/owning large reptiles. I have no problem with responsible ownership of ANY animal (yes, that includes Tigers and other big cats and canids). Punish those who are irresponsible or abusive not the owners who are doing RIGHT by their animals.


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

Oh, that's great. Punish them AFTER someone's been killed. Sure--I'll go with that. Is this forum a libertarian's paradise or something? I suppose you're in favor of anyone being able to own a nuclear bomb? Or how about a machine gun? Iows, is there anywhere you draw the line? Oh, sure, after a bunch of people have been killed by another person's perverted sense of "freedom", it's all fine and good to sue that person or imprison them? Okay. Cold comfort to the dead.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Large breed dogs kill plenty of people every year. Let's outlaw keeping/breeding dogs over 30 lbs!


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

Lindbert said:


> Large breed dogs kill plenty of people every year. Let's outlaw keeping/breeding dogs over 30 lbs!


Actually, no, that's not true. Pit bulls kill more people than any other breed. they also kill lots of dogs and other animals, including horses. Then come Rottweilers at a distant second, then, I believe, come wolf hybrids. 

Iows, MOST large dogs (Great Danes, IWs, Mastiffs, etc.) don't kill anyone or almost no one.

Pit bulls aren't even large dogs anyway, so what's your point?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Pit Bulls fit into the over 30# catagory. 

I have to wonder why you're pulling politics into this, it has nothing to do with political affiliations.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I said large.. not specifically giant. In most situations I've been in, dogs over 30 lbs are considered "large" or "larger" (dog park, apartments, insurance purposes, hotels, etc.), thus why I said why not outlaw dogs larger than 30 lbs. I'm sure most, if not all of the dog bite fatalities can be attributed to dogs over 30 lbs. Yes, pits will fall into this category. No, I'm not going to give you another place to rant about pit bulls.


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Pit Bulls fit into the over 30# catagory.
> 
> I have to wonder why you're pulling politics into this, it has nothing to do with political affiliations.


Well, it seems to have something to do with it. I don't anyone but big L libertarians who are in favor of total freedom about what "pets" should be legal. There's a reason why most "enlightened" states have laws against owning wolf hybrids. I'm glad I live in one of them, as I would hate to have to worry about whether or not my clueless neighbor who just got his first Siberian Tiger understands the responsibility that goes with that. Seriously.


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## bitemeoftn (Aug 13, 2011)

The DIFFERENCE is you don't have a tiger mixed with a Siamese cat. Wolf hybrids are just that a wild mixed with a domestic. Yes, there's a chance that something could go wrong if someone has a high/pure. Unfortunately, not everyone wants that golden retriever. People like exotic animals and that's the way it is. You can complain until you're blue in the face and it's not going to change anything. You're in a state where they're illegal so be happy with that. Don't try to dictate what you think others should be doing.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

IWlover said:


> Well, it seems to have something to do with it. I don't anyone but big L libertarians who are in favor of total freedom about what "pets" should be legal. There's a reason why most "enlightened" states have laws against owning wolf hybrids. I'm glad I live in one of them, as I would hate to have to worry about whether or not my clueless neighbor who just got his first Siberian Tiger understands the responsibility that goes with that. Seriously.


Well, I know of several people on this board who are against regulating who owns certain animals that are in fact hard core LIBERALS, not Libertarians.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

cshellenberger said:


> Well, I know of several people on this board who are against regulating who owns certain animals that are in fact hard core LIBERALS, not Libertarians.


oh STHOP THAT! *blush*


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

My only issue is where will it stop? Will I not be allowed to keep Brody because someone thinks he's a pit bull (he was labeled as a pit at the shelter and there is nothing pit-like about this dog.) Will my sable german shepherd dog have to die because someone thinks he's a wolfdog? Will they take all three dogs because dogs over 30# are considered "dangerous?" My neighbors have a pair of labs that I am TERRIFIED will one day slip their collars and/or get out the door because they act like they want to eat me and my dogs when they see us. Do I think that person should not be allowed to have those dogs because they're big, scary, and appear to have every intention of eating me if given the chance? No.. I think they should be allowed to keep those dogs as long as they are managed properly and not given the chance to turn me and my pups into scooby snacks.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Only 31 people a year die of dog related causes. According to the center for disease control, there are roughly 2.5 million deaths in the USA per year. So, if you die this year, there is a 0.00124% chance that it was from a dog. To make things more clear, every citizen of the USA of any age, gender or ethnicity has a .00001% chance of dying of dog injuries. You are more likely to die in a car accident. You are more likely to die from a wrongful police shooting. You are more likely to die of choking on your own vomit. 

My point? "When was the last time you've heard of a large parrot killing someone? Or a tarantula doing the same?" is a worthless statement. Statistically speaking, the numbers for those causes of deaths are indistinguishable. Not to mention that there have only been 20 wolf attacks (not deaths) reported in the entire WORLD in the last DECADE. 

This post is not to be on either side of the debate, but you really need to find better ammo, IWLover. You are shooting blanks so far.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Seriously IWLover? I'm sorry but you seem to be misinformed. Owning a wolfdog is NOTHING, absolutely positively NOTHING, like owning a Siberian tiger. Good lord, I don't even know where to start with that argument. There is such a vast, vast world of difference there - ranging from the type of containment needed, to the level of interaction the owner can safely have with the animal, to the size/weight difference, to differences in how big cats and canines sexually mature, to their tolerance thresholds, right down to the simple fact that your DOG is a domesticated wolf. There is very little difference genetically (and when you get right down to it - behaviorally) between a domestic dog and a wolfdog raised in captivity (yes, even a high content). Now, the genetic and behavioral differences between your dog and a Siberian Tiger? Indescribably huge. 

There's no reason for such a sensationalized and ludicrous argument. So you're against the responsible ownership of wolfdogs. That's fine, you have the right to your opinion. But you're losing credibility fast with your half-baked arguments.

So a wolfdog is capable of killing someone. So are domestic dogs! So are many other animals we keep regularly, including sheep, horses, cows and many other types of livestock. I am not endangering anyone by keeping my well-adjusted, well-trained, FRIENDLY wolfdogs in an extremely strong fence and kennel system that completely negates any risk of escape. I've also devoted the last several YEARS of my life learning all I can about these animals through hands-on training, "book knowledge" and an intensive week-long seminar at Wolf Park, not to mention my day-to-day interactions with the animals. Can I guarantee that EVERY owner of wolfdogs will do the same as I have? No, I can't - but since when am I personally responsible for another's actions? Should you be personally responsible for another person causing a car accident because you are also a driver? 

Wolfdogs are usually NOT vicious, they do NOT attack humans unprovoked and are generally timid, shy and frightened of strangers. There can be poorly-bred wolfdogs just like there can be poorly-bred examples of any DOG breed. They can also be raised so poorly that they become a danger to themselves, other animals and/or people but the error is not the animal's, but the owner's. And if you try to legislate them out of ownership, you will only succeed in targeting the irresponsible folks who will find a way to do what they want, anyway. And when those animals become a problem, who will step up and help, and get the wolfdog into a safe, secure environment? If you legislate the responsible folks out of existence, there is no one left to teach, no one left to clean up after the irresponsible owners' messes. And believe me, the irresponsible owners will FIND a way to own a wolfdog regardless of the law. I work in wolfdog rescue and I see this ALL THE TIME. The law means nothing to a determined or ignorant person. They will do what they want, anyway. 

This is a complicated issue and more legislation is NOT the answer. More EDUCATION for potential buyers, more COMMUNICATION and OUTREACH between wolfdog owners and their communities, and more grassroots efforts to shut down and boycott the BAD breeders who do zero screening of their buyers IS the answer.

If you truly understood wolfdogs, you would not fear them. The fact that you DO tells me that you don't even have enough experience or knowledge on the topic to make an informed judgment.

Here are some photos of the vicious and terribly unhappy wolfdogs that I have owned throughout the years.


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

bitemeoftn said:


> The DIFFERENCE is you don't have a tiger mixed with a Siamese cat. Wolf hybrids are just that a wild mixed with a domestic. Yes, there's a chance that something could go wrong if someone has a high/pure. Unfortunately, not everyone wants that golden retriever. People like exotic animals and that's the way it is. You can complain until you're blue in the face and it's not going to change anything. You're in a state where they're illegal so be happy with that. Don't try to dictate what you think others should be doing.


yeah.

Read this: http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/part-wild-book-review-and-ode-to-dog-ness


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

This is getting good...I'm getting the op2:


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Geez, that article by McConnell JUST came out and folks are already quoting it as gospel. That article documents ONE trainer's experiences with TWO wolfdogs. Why on earth would you generalize just from that?

I have nothing but the greatest respect for Patricia McConnell but I don't think that making a case from working with 2 animals is ever a sound idea. I agree that there are differences between wolves, dogs, and wolfdogs. But they are not so vast that experienced, knowledgeable people cannot handle them safely. 

You need to go look up Nicole Wilde, another HIGHLY respected, experienced dog trainer, and read her articles and books regarding wolfdogs and their ownership. You will come away with a far more factual and thorough view of these unique canines.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

IWlover said:


> No, it's frickin' not.
> 
> When was the last time you've heard of a large parrot _killing_ someone? Or a tarantula doing the same?
> 
> ...


I have already determined from your posts that you lack any sort of sense, so I will not be gracing you with a reasonable answer that would be wasted. 

Down with Irish Wolfhounds! I will be circulating a petition for you all to sign so they can be banned in your city!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

IWlover said:


> No, it's frickin' not.
> 
> When was the last time you've heard of a large parrot _killing_ someone? Or a tarantula doing the same?
> 
> ...


So are you now going to quote us on all the hybrids you think kill people? (They are even harder to identify than Pibbles, especially since a lot of people are mis-representing nordic breeds as hybrids.) Personal anecdote here <g> I have a shelter dog here who is probably a collie x malamute mix. She's been identified a few times as a wolf hybrid. I have worked with a few real hybrids (again, only my personal experience compaired to your . . . what?) They were very intelligent and very workable, but unfortunately the ones I met were also with the very wrong type of people to own anything more than a very docile dog.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

IWlover said:


> Oh, that's great. Punish them AFTER someone's been killed. Sure--I'll go with that. Is this forum a libertarian's paradise or something? I suppose you're in favor of anyone being able to own a nuclear bomb? Or how about a machine gun? Iows, is there anywhere you draw the line? Oh, sure, after a bunch of people have been killed by another person's perverted sense of "freedom", it's all fine and good to sue that person or imprison them? Okay. Cold comfort to the dead.


Hyperbole much?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I have already determined from your posts that you lack any sort of sense, so I will not be gracing you with a reasonable answer that would be wasted.
> 
> Down with Irish Wolfhounds! I will be circulating a petition for you all to sign so they can be banned in your city!


sighthounds. since all sighthounds are the same and my son was bitten. call it Eli's Law to ellicit the emotional support of people who can't see the bigger picture beyond a reactive flipout reaction to only one side of the issue.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> sighthounds. since all sighthounds are the same and my son was bitten. call it Eli's Law to ellicit the emotional support of people who can't see the bigger picture beyond a reactive flipout reaction to only one side of the issue.


Well I specifically and irrationally hate Wolfhounds the most because they're big. And they have WOLF in their name so I bet they are mixed with wolves and IW owners/breeders are just hiding it to keep their killing machines.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Well I specifically and irrationally hate Wolfhounds the most because they're big. And they have WOLF in their name so I bet they are mixed with wolves and IW owners/breeders are just hiding it to keep their killing machines.


Yep one killed my pet rabbit when I was younger that means it has wolf in it and should be BANNED!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Well I specifically and irrationally hate Wolfhounds the most because they're big. And they have WOLF in their name so I bet they are mixed with wolves and IW owners/breeders are just hiding it to keep their killing machines.


indeed. but there's similar breeding in all sighthounds. so, it only stands to reason that the reason that sighthound bit my kid is because it's a sighthound. we have a common cause here. all sighthounds should be banned since they don't come as individuals and rather come as breed types that show consistent traits. breeders have take it beyond a science and into the realm of pure mechanical manufacture you know. temperament is so consistent....


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

nekomi said:


>


This is a WONDERFUL example of soft eyes.



IWlover said:


> yeah.
> 
> Read this: http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/part-wild-book-review-and-ode-to-dog-ness


This really isn't anti-wolfdog at all. It's anti-overdogging yourself.

1) The wolfdog of the author of the reviewed book: pup bought to protect her from her abusive stalker ex-boyfriend. The review makes it pretty plain this is not a woman who is going to have a lot of success with ANY kind of dog.

2) 5 month old "high content" living in an apartment. Bouncing off the walls and chewing people "with a sparkle in her eye." That's not a dog that wants to kill you. That is a dog going out of her mind looking at the same four walls every day. The situation would have been the exact same with a high prey drive Husky, or a terrier even. 

3) The Wife Biting Resource Guarder. This is the only example in the post that highlights a real difference between wolfdogs and normal dogs. The wolfdog has an agenda and doesn't really care what yours is. This is not a huge deal, if you're prepared for it.

I am not one for allowing wolfdogs into the hands of just anyone. I do not think they are an animal that should be deliberately created. The ones that are already in existence don't need to all be killed or even institutionalized, but you better know your stuff, have a realistic containment plan, and a support network.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

katielou said:


> Yep one killed my pet rabbit when I was younger that means it has wolf in it and should be BANNED!





zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> indeed. but there's similar breeding in all sighthounds. so, it only stands to reason that the reason that sighthound bit my kid is because it's a sighthound. we have a common cause here. all sighthounds should be banned since they don't come as individuals and rather come as breed types that show consistent traits. breeders have take it beyond a science and into the realm of pure mechanical manufacture you know. temperament is so consistent....


I am writing an article for the examiner now, can I quote you guys?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I am writing an article for the examiner now, can I quote you guys?


absolutely. ill send you the medical reports so you can quote those too.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Well I specifically and irrationally hate Wolfhounds the most because they're big. And they have WOLF in their name so I bet they are mixed with wolves and IW owners/breeders are just hiding it to keep their killing machines.


A Wolfhound chased after my Pug in the dog park the other day, I just KNOW that he was trying to run him down and kill him! I feel so lucky that Kuma and I escaped intact, clearly these are dangerous dogs, and IW owners/breeders are just fanatics trying to hide the worst about their breed!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

and how creepy is that? that talk? bans...sensationalism....confirmation bias....

this thread has caused me to freak myself out.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

*applause* Bravo RaeganW for a great post!!!

Regarding scenario #3 quoted above, my feeling (bolstered by my personal experience with these guys) is that there is more going on than meets the eye. The dog was already a confirmed resource guarder, already biting family members, and the owners were clueless how to handle this behavior. It's a fair guess to say that he was likely being reinforced for this behavior, because it got him what he wanted (to keep the toy/bone/whatever). Even if it only worked for him ONCE, remember that wolfdogs are what we call "one trial learners" and IMO, much quicker to generalize their experiences than domestic dogs. Enter a brand-new person (Patricia) into the equation... and add in the fact that wolfdogs can be wary and unsure of new people which probably heightened his arousal and stress level. Keeping that in mind, the result is not so surprising.

To be fair, though, resource guarding is a common issue in wolfdogs and they think absolutely nothing of posessing multiple objects, locations, etc. at the same time, no matter how far apart they are. They are not quite so "out of sight, out of mind" as domestic dogs. I've seen it in my woofers too, this exact same scenario, except mine have been TRAINED appropriately from a young age to ask politely for "their" favored object back. 

Here are examples of folks doing RIGHT by their wolfdog in this regard. These aren't low-content wolfdogs either, by any means.






This video is even better:


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

nekomi said:


> wolfdogs are what we call "one trial learners" and IMO, much quicker to generalize their experiences than domestic dogs.


Why was that ability lost in domestication? Do you know?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

IWlover said:


> yeah.
> 
> Read this: http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/part-wild-book-review-and-ode-to-dog-ness


Seriously? Your trump card is essentially a _book review_?!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

sassafras said:


> Seriously? Your trump card is essentially a _book review_?!


Of a book that isn't even out for the general public to read! ACES FOLKS, ACES.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Of a book that isn't even out for the general public to read! ACES FOLKS, ACES.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Tofu_pup said:


> Why was that ability lost in domestication? Do you know?


I'm guessing (because it seems common in retrievers to breed for the most rough-handling tolerant dogs) that humans want their dogs to be more forgiving. If you smack a wolf (or any other wild animal, really), he's not going to trust you for a very long time, maybe not ever again. If you smack your dog, he'll probably be your best friend again in 5 minutes. Even if the pain you caused him wasn't intentional (maybe stepping on his toes), same results--a wolf won't forgive easily. I think humans have bred that tolerance into dogs from the very beginning. Most of us make a lot of mistakes with our dogs and we should be glad they forgive us so easily. Although this sadly means that abusers don't usually get what they deserve. . .but such is domestication.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Willowy, great post! That was exactly what I was going to speculate, too.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Nekomi, the second link for the video didn't work, came to FB and said content unavailable.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Oh, that sucks! I guess it's a private video. That's too bad because it's seriously awesome!


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## MooMoosMommy (May 23, 2010)

Ignorance is bad enough among non dog lovers but even worse when dog lovers spout it too. There has always been breeds of dogs that have been ostracized and demonized among humans. It doesn't matter what these animals have done to enhance our lives or others. All that matters is they seem to have a closed mind. Closed minds= no chance at learning otherwise because they want to live in that closet they have become comfortable in.

Pit Bulls have been great help in war, therapy, family pets, service dog, etc and are still not accepted by the general public because of the bad they have been handfed. Too many breeds have been held in the same light at times and some continue to be there- GSDs, Rotties, Hybrids, Dobermans....

Hysteria has led us nowhere so far in history but maybe they think that just this once it will get us somewhere...?? 

Closed minds need a reality check. Doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result is defined as insanity.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

> Doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result is defined as insanity.


paraphrased Einstein quotes are win. I should bake you cookies.


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## MooMoosMommy (May 23, 2010)

I love white fudge macademia nuts cookies. 

It seems that some poster has decided to put himself/herself in the hotseat in a few threads lately with their opinions. Throwing grease on a fire is NOT an attractive quality these days. Anyone have baking soda?


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

No but I have bug repellant and mace.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

IWlover said:


> I suppose you're in favor of anyone being able to own a nuclear bomb? Or how about a machine gun?


Nekomi has already made all the points I would regarding this argument. However, I just HAD to add my two cents regarding the above quote. 

REALLY? Comparing wolf dog ownership to a NUCLEAR BOMB or a MACHINE GUN? REALLY? If anything, compare it to gun ownership -- in many states, owning a wolf or a wolf dog requires a special license. And like guns, wolves and wolf dogs should only be kept by experts, and can be problematic in the wrong hands. However, I must stress, even that is a* POOR* comparison. A gun is FAR more lethal. 

I've handled dozens of high, mid, and low content wolf dogs and pure wolves. I've photographed them with children as young as a year old. In the right hands, they're wonderful creatures. In the wrong hands? They're fearful, shy, and under-socialized, and could be aggressive or destructive out of FEAR and BOREDOM. Just like ANY dog. 

But seriously... comparing them to nuclear bombs... that had me chuckling.


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

JessRU09 said:


> But seriously... comparing them to nuclear bombs... that had me chuckling.


Well, don't they both produce mushrooms? Or how about: both can fly in a plane? Both are affected by gravity? Both are somewhat loosely oval-shaped?

Sorry, grasping at straws. I've got nothing.

Wait! I have it! Both can leave behind an inconvenient byproduct!!!! Yay!


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

Meshkenet said:


> Wait! I have it! Both can leave behind an inconvenient byproduct!!!! Yay!


Hahaha... NAILED IT!


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