# BRAND NEW PUPPY!(1 week old pic!)



## tuffycuddles (Sep 25, 2008)

Ok so my dog "Maybe" just turned 2 years old. So What have i done now that house breaking and leash training and sitting and staying is all under control, and she is finally starting to mellow out some.. I said "LETS DO THAT ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!!".....

introducing "Normal" my new little monster....
here is a picture of her with my fiance when she was just one week old.










and a picture of her Daddy, who she looks identical to!









and her Mommy!











Updated pictures to come when i finally get around to getting them on the computer. She will be 7 weeks old on monday.
She is an alaskan husky. the same as my other dog. We got her for free from a local musher who had two litters of puppies and was only keeping males (because they are larger and stronger, and he doesn't need to spay them )

I had wanted a pup from the first litter becasue this winter i'd fallen in love with a little black white escape artist named "princess" who is identical in markings to the father dog. But all 7 pups from that litter were male. so no luck there, but they had also bred the same male with another female and turned out those 8 puppies were all female but one. Normal was the only black and white puppy in her litter. i got to pick her out the very day she was born! She is definately a little Monster, but she gets along great with Maybe so they wear eachother out some!


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## tuffycuddles (Sep 25, 2008)

and a picture from our visit when she was 3 weeks old.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Very cute, but you have her now, already at ~7 weeks? 

If so, I've got to urge you to take her back to her litter for proper developmental reasons, and to refrain from taking pups from and ecouraging a backyard breeder. I know that no reputable breeder would let a pup go less than 8 weeks old, and in most areas it's illegal.


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## tuffycuddles (Sep 25, 2008)

I did Not get her from a Back yard breeder. The guy is a Musher. He is not just breeding his dogs for the fun of it. or for a profit. He is selectively breeding his dogs to supply himself with good quality racing dogs. 


Illeagal to let a pup go before 8 weeks huh?
...most puppies in this town are lucky to live past several months of age becasue they are just given to children and allowed to run loose. there is always puppies everywhere every summer and most of them are never seen again once summer passes....
any of the dogs that do live past puppy live their lives neglected on chains... I think taking a puppy before it's 8 weeks is the least of anyones worries.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

What an adorable little pup! I love her markings. I hope you continue to post pics of Normal as she ages! I'd like to see pics of Maybe, too.

DJ, the people breeding Alaskan Huskies are different from other breeders. I don't know a whole lot about the dogs, but from my understanding, Alaskan Huskies are a type, not a pure breed, and the people breeding them are simply striving to produce the fastest, best racing huskies they can. Color and markings are immaterial and there's no breed standard or anything, so the backyard breeder thing doesn't really apply.


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## yappypappymom (Oct 22, 2009)

WOW! She sure DOES look like a "carbon copy" of her papa! Enjoy her, & spoil her to bits!  I am sure that you can give her a chance at a nicer chance at living in a nice, comfy home! Shes REALLY a cute lil' bugger!


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## PetersGirl (Feb 8, 2010)

DJ we got Tucker at 7 weeks. His breeders are extremely reputable and he is in great condition.

To the OP, your girl is sooo cute! Do you have a name!? Oh...and a current pic


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

tuffycuddles said:


> I did Not get her from a Back yard breeder. The guy is a Musher. He is not just breeding his dogs for the fun of it. or for a profit. He is selectively breeding his dogs to supply himself with good quality racing dogs.
> 
> 
> Illeagal to let a pup go before 8 weeks huh?
> ...



no offense but from mom's pic i might be suspicious. that enclosure looks a little...yuck.

as for the eight weeks thing..the issue behind it is crucial social instruction from the mother...its a matter of certain developmental periods being key to raising a well rounded dog.

though, that said...seven weeks is not that bad...if it had been 3 weeks for example..then it would really be a concern and id really be questioning the dude's judgement.

that said...she's cute. good luck.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

She is adorable!! I can't wait to see more pictures


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## tuffycuddles (Sep 25, 2008)

Crantastic: Thanks! I'm glad someone knows what i'm talking about. 

PetersGirl: lol..her name is "Normal" and my dogs name is "Maybe." 

i'm going to put current pictures on the computer now and hopefully upload them later today.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> no offense but from mom's pic i might be suspicious. that enclosure looks a little...yuck.


Most Alaskan Huskies are kept in conditions similar to that, it's not a big deal really. They're not pampered and in the house, they're there to work. During mushing season they sleep in the snow (although there is straw) as well, they're "tough" dogs. 

Last time I was in Alaska, all the dogs were either outside chained or in small kennels. As long as there isn't feces or urine in the place, it's fine to the mushers.

Puppies are basically allowed to just run around and do whatever they want, a lot of the children play with 3 or 4 week old puppies and carry them around. It's just the way things are.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Uh..I know that. Pits are often kept in similar enclosure.

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the huge pile of dogshit in the photo right next to what appears to be an overturned food bowl. My point was that it LOOKS yuck.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Uh..I know that. Pits are often kept in similar enclosure.
> 
> That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the huge pile of dogshit in the photo right next to what appears to be an overturned food bowl. My point was that it LOOKS yuck.


Oh hey! I totally didn't see that and I scanned the picture like 5 times....It's time for new glasses.

Maybe the breeder hasn't got around to cleaning it yet, I dunno


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

basically I'm saying that people who pretty much only have the poop pic to go on might be suspicious. It would be a natural assumption.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Mom's chain looks way too short. It looks like she knocked over the water bowl while trying to lick the camera person. I would imagine the 'musher' only cleans out the kennels every few days. The only thing I have a problem with is the length of the chain. Cute pup!


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Most Alaskan Huskies are kept in conditions similar to that, it's not a big deal really. They're not pampered and in the house, they're there to work. During mushing season they sleep in the snow (although there is straw) as well, they're "tough" dogs.
> 
> Last time I was in Alaska, all the dogs were either outside chained or in small kennels. As long as there isn't feces or urine in the place, it's fine to the mushers.
> 
> Puppies are basically allowed to just run around and do whatever they want, a lot of the children play with 3 or 4 week old puppies and carry them around. It's just the way things are.


For real? I'm sorry, but "They're working dogs," "They're supposed to be tough," and "It's just the way things are," are never good reasons to keep dogs in inadequate living conditions. Isn't it illegal to keep a dog chained up in most places? Understandably, too. Leaving a dog chained up all of its life can have serious psychological consequences. And all they're worried about is feces and urine? As if there's nothing else that's could be dangerous? I for one think that rusty broken down fence in the OP looks disgustingly dangerous. What about wild animals, too? ESPECIALLY in Alaska!!

What health testing was done? The fastest dog is not necessarily the healthiest dog. And honestly I think the fact that they're getting rid of females because they don't care enough to spay or neuter is a BAD sign. If you're breeding irresponsibly for fun or for money it's apparently bad, but breeding irresponsibly for the sake of getting to ride around on a sled for sport is perfectly okay? What kind of logic is that??

I'm not even going to begin to describe how I feel about letting 3-4 week old puppies run around willy-nilly outdoors (They probably LIVE outdoors, too?) and getting picked up and harassed by children. I don't think I can express my feelings without breaking the rules of the forum. Absolutely disgusting. 

Tuffycuddles: I wish you luck raising your new puppy, but I personally would never support that kind of breeder.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Nargle said:


> For real? I'm sorry, but "They're working dogs," "They're supposed to be tough," and "It's just the way things are," are never good reasons to keep dogs in inadequate living conditions. Isn't it illegal to keep a dog chained up in most places? Understandably, too. Leaving a dog chained up all of its life can have serious psychological consequences. And all they're worried about is feces and urine? As if there's nothing else that's could be dangerous? I for one think that rusty broken down fence in the OP looks disgustingly dangerous. What about wild animals, too? ESPECIALLY in Alaska!!


I'm not saying it's good but that's just the way it is right now. I'm just stating what I saw. I don't necessarily support it or have feelings against it.

It's not inadequate living conditions, there are no such laws stating dogs cannot be chained. Problems only come up if they don't have water or food or are physically beaten. They're not chained all their live because 1/2 the year they're used as sled dogs and pulling everyday. In the summer the best sled dog breeders let their dogs run on giant hamster wheels to help condition the dogs.

Most mushers don't do health tests but their dogs are all very healthy since if a dog even has the slightest problem, they are basically unable to pull 30-40 miles a day in below 0C temperature nonstop. They only breed the dogs with the most pulling potential and are the fastest. These dogs usually don't have health problems otherwise they won't be the fastest and hardiest.

Not all dogs are housepets or cherished family members. These mushers love and care about their dogs, but just in a different way. They make sure the dogs are as well fed as possible, put boots on them for pulling and even rub their muscles. It's not like they don't care.

Here's a video. Around 1:10 is how they're kept but they are taken off the chains to train and pull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwO5vWi0yX8

I know a lot of working hounds and hunting dogs are kept in a similar way.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

tuffycuddles said:


> I did Not get her from a Back yard breeder. The guy is a Musher. He is not just breeding his dogs for the fun of it. or for a profit. He is selectively breeding his dogs to supply himself with good quality racing dogs.
> 
> 
> Illeagal to let a pup go before 8 weeks huh?
> ...


Yes, in some areas it is illegal to sell or in this case, let a puppy go before 8 weeks. The time up until 8 weeks is crucial to puppies. Without that time with their litter/mom, they can turn out aggressive and nippy, among other things. Breeders keep them until 8-10 weeks for a reason, that's for sure. 

I'm sorry you have to live in such a town where such tragedies are allowed to occur. Taking a pup before 8 weeks might not seem like a big deal compared to what happens to most, but it is a big deal, unfortunately many people don't seem to understand why.



PetersGirl said:


> DJ we got Tucker at 7 weeks. His breeders are extremely reputable and he is in great condition.
> 
> To the OP, your girl is sooo cute! Do you have a name!? Oh...and a current pic


I'm sure he is in great condition, I would just personally never consider someone letting a pup go even at 7 weeks reputable. A day or two prior to 8 weeks for the benefit of the dog so as to adjust over a weekend, etc is one thing, but a whole week early is a little excessive, imo. It is just another area that makes a breeder reputable or not, that many overlook.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Dj, it somewhat depends on what breed you are looking at. And where you are...like I know in some states the legal limit is in fact seven weeks. I wouldn't strenously object to letting a seven week old pup go IF it was to a responsible multidog household.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Oh yeah, I know the age laws are different in different areas, and in some places there's no law. There's none here and I see ads on craigslist daily to "rehome" a litter of 5 or 6 week old pups 'cause they're "ready to go!". 

If I was a breeder I wouldn't strenuously object either to the right home for the right reasons, but I know it'd make it easier on everyone involved to keep it for the extra week or three, and that's what I like to see, once again- personally. I know I got Frag at 12 weeks and while he may not have come from the best breeding, we didn't have ANY nipping/mouting issues, and I don't see the likelihood of having any aggression. We have a very lax, submissive boy on our hands.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm not necessrily agreeing with the choice of the breeder, because I don't know anything about this breeder other than what I may or may not assume from a couple of pictures.

But...

I would be perfectly happy and willing to take a German Shepherd puppy at 7 weeks old from a breeder. Several reputable working line German Shepherd breeders I know of let their puppies go at 7 weeks. If the breeder can properly evaluate the puppy and feels that the pup is ready to go at 7 weeks, all the pup misses out on really is bite inhibition. And depending on the way some raise their Schutzhund prospect puppies, I doubt that would be a deal breaker. 

Now, Trent's breeder offered to let him go at seven weeks. After asking the opinion of many who have owned dogs from the same breeder before, and after asking the opinion of breeders and those who have been involved in the breed for a long time, I decided I would. The only reason it ended up not working out was due to timing on my part, so we ended up getting him at 8 weeks anyway. So Trent stayed with his littermate for a week longer than the other puppies did, and he was still a complete Land Shark. On the other hand, his other littermates, who were taken home at 7 weeks, are no more mouthier, or "aggressive". 

I don't believe mouthiness and nipping to be a sign of aggression, personally, so I'm not a fan of the word choice. A dog with a lot of fight drive isn't automatically nippy. A dog that is nippy doesn't necessarily have a lot of fight drive and natural aggression. My neighbor's GSD was one chewy, mouthy pup, and he's the sweetest, most laid back German Shepherd I've met. 

I personally think 7 weeks old is fine. That's my personal opinion, and I have no problems with those who believe otherwise. I also think it varies from breeder to breeder, and depends mostly on the breeder's ability to evaluate the pups and to properly raise and socialize these pups before they are sent home. That's a lot more important than keeping a pup back another 7 days and doing nothing with them. 

So no need to discount breeders simply because they let puppies go at 7 weeks, in my opinion.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Here's some information on chaining/tethering dogs and laws against it:

http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Laws.htm
http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Facts.htm
http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/index.html
http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_Chaining.php
http://www.vactf.org/pdfs/tethering.pdf

Interesting article about sled dogs:
http://www.helpsleddogs.org/faq.htm


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

7 weeks is pretty much the norm for most working breeders to be honest. Some of them otherwise VERY good breeders. I know on the bc boards there was a thread explaining why they preferred 7 weeks but I can't find it. Anyways, I would not say that automatically makes a breeder a bad breeder.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Equinox said:


> I would be perfectly happy and willing to take a German Shepherd puppy at 7 weeks old from a breeder. Several reputable working line German Shepherd breeders I know of let their puppies go at 7 weeks. If the breeder can properly evaluate the puppy and feels that the pup is ready to go at 7 weeks, all the pup misses out on really is bite inhibition. And depending on the way some raise their Schutzhund prospect puppies, I doubt that would be a deal breaker.
> 
> Now, Trent's breeder offered to let him go at seven weeks. After asking the opinion of many who have owned dogs from the same breeder before, and after asking the opinion of breeders and those who have been involved in the breed for a long time, I decided I would. The only reason it ended up not working out was due to timing on my part, so we ended up getting him at 8 weeks anyway. So Trent stayed with his littermate for a week longer than the other puppies did, and he was still a complete Land Shark. On the other hand, his other littermates, who were taken home at 7 weeks, are no more mouthier, or "aggressive".
> 
> ...


See, in my opinion, it's not so much the breeder and what they're doing with them, rather than what the owner will be doing. I know reputable breeders do screenings and such, which should usually be able to put puppies into good homes, but some do slip through the cracks, and then there are the byb like in this case (sort of..) that don't do screening at all and I think that just sending a 7 week old puppy out into a home with no knowledge of what kind of socialization or training it will get for no good reason is, sketchy, and unreasonable, because the early transition can cause problems, and when I mentioned aggression, I wasn't talking mouthing and nipping, I also find a very distinct difference, but I have noticed a large trend of dogs I've met or heard about that were aggressive for no traumatic reason were also taken from the litter too young and along with articles online, I believe there is a strong correlation with the increase risk of aggression due to age being seperated from the litter, especially if there isn't a TON of socialization happening right after- which is hard, as you know, even for a willing owner, with the chance of disease. 

I guess I just don't see a positive reason to take a pup so young. Most instances I've heard of just add to the negative.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> 7 weeks is pretty much the norm for most working breeders to be honest. Some of them otherwise VERY good breeders. I know on the bc boards there was a thread explaining why they preferred 7 weeks but I can't find it. Anyways, I would not say that automatically makes a breeder a bad breeder.


Just for clarification, I was not saying it makes them a bad breeder, just undesirable to me, personally. 

I know of a few working line GSD breeders that won't let pups go before 8 weeks and prefer 10. It just makes more sense to me.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Okay, as long as we're all clear that it's personal preferences, I'm good 

Personally, for my next dog, I'm actually more inclined to take the pup home at 7 weeks than I am at 10-12 weeks, but that's because of what I prefer and what my plans are. 

A well bred dog with strong nerves sent off at 7 weeks will turn out a lot better than a dog with weak nerves sent out at 12 weeks. The breeder I will be getting my next pup from said before something along the lines of "we can't prevent everything, so that's why you breed good dogs with solid nerves." Genetics play a much bigger role in a dog's temperament than the extra 7 days the pup had with its litter.

IMO, of course.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Nargle said:


> Here's some information on chaining/tethering dogs and laws against it:
> 
> http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Laws.htm
> http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Facts.htm
> ...


that is some of the most petty offensive BS i have EVER heard in my entire life.

i just totally lost all respect for you.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

OK, I just found out about this thread, and my thoughts on working dog breeding are so complicated that there's no way I could do the subject justice here, without writing a novel... but I DO want to say that the HelpSledDogs.org site is a complete waste of time. As Zim so eloquently put it - BS. The woman who runs that site harrasses mushers at every turn and truly does not know what she's talking about.

Anyway, I can only speak from my own experience here. Tempo is an Alaskan Husky as well, from a mushing kennel. Her parents were not health-tested. They were tested in the field, as were her grandparents and great-grandparents. Even the most stringent, reputable mushing kennel I know of (this kennel does not chain their dogs, they live in large spacious runs as well as in the house, and screen their buyers AGGRESSIVELY) does not health test their dogs. As it was explained to me, it is a natural selection of which dogs can withstand the rigors of an actual working life.

I won't say that I don't have my doubts about this, but truthfully, Alaskan Huskies as a whole are incredibly healthy dogs and able to work well into their older years. 

Also, I took Tempo home at 7 weeks. I did so because her breeder/musher was going to be traveling the next several days, and that she would get more out of being home with me, starting to acclimate and get some basic training, then she would if she were still at the breeders'. It was a mutual decision the breeder and I made together, with the agreement that she would visit the other pups for play-dates frequently. Also, I fall into that "experienced multi-dog household" category. We have had ZERO problems with mouthiness or anything of that nature.

Anyway, the subject as a whole is complicated. The fact remains that if you want a good pup from hardcore working lines, you are going to be dealing with mushers, who frequently keep their dogs outdoors and frequently on tethers. You will not get health testing. You will not get a puppy raised indoors. It is just the nature of the beast. But, if you choose the musher well, you WILL get a puppy from a carefully-planned pairing of quality parents. Believe me, it is WELL WORTH getting a pup from working lines if you want to start mushing. Tempo has more talent and natural drive in her little paw than the rest of my dogs have in their whole bodies, combined! 

That's why, when my good mushing friend was having a litter, and I saw the pups raised indoors, in a responsible, combo pet/working dog setting, I jumped on the chance. I felt better about supporting her than I would other breeders. And yes, her dogs were tethered at the time (they have since moved and changed their setup to large kennels), but that didn't affect my decision. You should SEE how conscientious their tethering system is (same with most mushers I've met). It's not like just throwing a dog on a chain and tying it to a tree. The whole system, when done right, is built for the safety of the dog. I was very impressed when I first saw a good tethering setup, and this is from someone who is generally anti-chain. Believe me, the welfare of the dogs is #1 priority for most mushers. Even if they aren't pets.

Well, I wrote a novel anyway and didn't really get anywhere, but oh well.  CONGRATS to the OP on a beautiful, beautiful new pup!!!!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I think your response was great, nekomi! I was hoping that someone with more knowledge of the mushing world would come in and explain why, in this case, the health testing we all normally insist on isn't as big of a deal, as dogs are tested in the field and most are healthy, true canine athletes. I'm sure some mushers are better breeders than others, and some dogs are kept in better conditions than others, but it's really a different world from that of breeders who produce pet dogs, and we can't just tick things off a checklist (dogs raised outside? Dogs tethered? No health testing?) and deem every musher a backyard breeder.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Nekomi - like Crantastic, I was also hoping you'd chime in, and thought of you the moment I started reading the responses to this thread. Your post was very informative and very well thought out. 

Crantastic - 


Crantastic said:


> I think your response was great, nekomi! I was hoping that someone with more knowledge of the mushing world would come in and explain why, in this case, the health testing we all normally insist on isn't as big of a deal, as dogs are tested in the field and most are healthy, true canine athletes. I'm sure some mushers are better breeders than others, and some dogs are kept in better conditions than others, but it's really a different world from that of breeders who produce pet dogs, and *we can't just tick things off a checklist *(dogs raised outside? Dogs tethered? No health testing?) *and deem every musher a backyard breeder.*


THIS (bolding is mine). I 100% whole heartedly agree. 

I know how much we emphasis health testing here, as well as "taking a pup home at the "right" age, indoor dogs, etc. But what is important to keep in mind is that NOTHING is set in stone. Nothing. Like Crantastic said so well, we do NOT tick things off a checklist, and if the breeder gets so many check marks, he/she is a responsible breeder. There is no 1-2-3 steps in becoming a good breeder.

And as far as health testing... I believe a deep knowledge of a dog's lines and the genetic history and what types of dogs came to produce the pups is at least just as important as OFAs and CERFs. Breeding Alaskan Huskies is breeding working/sport dogs... it can be very, very different from breeding companion/show Japnese Chins and Pugs.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Also, some other thoughts I've just had...

For the most part, the reason we insist on health clearances/pups raised indoors/aggressive screening/etc is because we are wanting the new puppy, and owner, to have the BEST possible start. We want a good fit. We want the puppy to be healthy and well-adjusted, and the buyer to be thoroughly screened, so the puppy has the best possible chance of staying in its new loving family.

Of course, there is also the welfare of the parents to think about, too, so don't think I'm minimizing that at all.

But my point is... the OP is obviously happy with her new pup, knows her goals and bought a pup that fits with those goals. A good fit! Obviously she also did the right thing by waiting for her current dog to be well-trained and mellowed out before adding another to the family. So I don't see any reason to be jumping down her throat, really.

And another thought - I don't think the mushers are all BYB argument is valid. There are some breeders that are so bad, by mushing standards, that they ARE labeled BYB's by other mushers! So there ARE standards. You can find most of them on the Mush with Pride website, for anyone interested. (This is a great organization, of which I'm a member. I strongly support their care guidelines and mission.) 

Also, BYB dogs get no stimulation and have no life other than being used as breeding machines. They spend 24/7 tethered or caged with no love and no attention; crappy food, crappy healthcare, nothing to look forward to. In contrast, would you like to know what my experience in the mushing community has been? The classic anti-mushing photo of a dog on a chain does not tell the whole story. In my experience, that dog on the end of the chain is being fed quality food and supplements, and their owner works closely with the best vet they can find. That dog spends winter and fall mornings on long adventures in the snow and dirt, returning to the truck to have its warm muscles rubbed down and massaged, feet checked and cared for, given treats and love for a job well done. They get back to the dog yard, spend a couple hours napping on their chain or in their kennel before they start to wake up. Then they're let into large exercise yards to play and socialize until dinner. After their dinner, one or more dogs might be let into the house to visit with the family as a special treat.

Almost unanimously, that has been the story of the sleddogs I have met since I started mushing. The bond between owner and dog is deep and although different from a pet, these dogs are loved. There is the occasional bad apple. But I've found that mushers are very passionate folks and will not hesitate to oust "one of their own" who are doing a bad job. 

Just more thoughts from someone who is trying to balance on that thin line between working dog and pet...


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

nekomi said:


> Also, BYB dogs get no stimulation and have no life other than being used as breeding machines. They spend 24/7 tethered or caged with no love and no attention; crappy food, crappy healthcare, nothing to look forward to.


I think this is a very untrue, unfair statement, and while I can see the difference in your experiences vs. true byb, this is just wrong in many cases. 

Scanning craigslist, talking to people, and working at a shelter has led me to many byb situations. All of which had dogs that were great PETS, inside, cared for great, all utd, loved, doted on, and very happy as family pets. Just not breeding worthy- some have papers, some don't, none have the proper health clearances, and none have been shown, some have temperment issues, but they're all great family pets that the family loves in every case I've come across. I haven't found or heard of anyone just keeping dogs chained up or locked up breeding them time and time again for cash.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

So DJ.

So I'm going to buy from a breeder who doesn't health test. BUT...tracing the pedigrees back over multiple generations, I find that every single dog represented lived to advanced age and died peacefully in their sleep. I don't think of that as a byb at all. This breeder chose Very very carefully the dogs whose performance in working venues and continued perfect health is proof of their worth. You can't always judge working bred dogs by the standards of a show/pet dog. That's not to say that health testing is not a good thing or preferred. .....but the proof can also be "in the pudding" as they say.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

DJ, it looks like nekomi said BYB when she really meant puppy millers (correct me if I'm wrong there, nekomi). Her point definitely stands.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Sorry, Crantastic is right. I totally meant puppy mill, not BYB. And I think Zim and DJ actually made the point FOR me that not only are working dog breeders not puppy mills, but they are also NOT BYB - because as DJ pointed out:



> Just not breeding worthy- some have papers, some don't, none have the proper health clearances, and none have been shown, some have temperment issues, but they're all great family pets that the family loves in every case I've come across.


Responsible breeding in the mushing community means:

Breeding worthy, with pedigrees, proven in the field for health/soundness, proven in the field for performance (parents should have raced or been used in actual freight work, dogs used in recreational mushing fail this point and shouldn't be bred in most cases, IMO), bred for sound temperament (a MUST in this sport), and the only point being the same between BYB and musher, the dogs are loved by both groups.


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## tuffycuddles (Sep 25, 2008)

Nekomi! thank you! you are my hero!  Thanks for stepping in...i havn't said much becasue everyone on here is is so opinionated and stubborn there is no point in argueing. But i'm glad there are people out there who understand where i'm comeing from.


Anyhow that aside..i'm going to go and start a new thread with more up to date pictures of my babies!! 

the thread title will be "Normal" for all those who are interested.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

nekomi said:


> Sorry, Crantastic is right. I totally meant puppy mill, not BYB. And I think Zim and DJ actually made the point FOR me that not only are working dog breeders not puppy mills, but they are also NOT BYB - because as DJ pointed out:
> 
> Responsible breeding in the mushing community means:
> 
> Breeding worthy, with pedigrees, proven in the field for health/soundness, proven in the field for performance (parents should have raced or been used in actual freight work, dogs used in recreational mushing fail this point and shouldn't be bred in most cases, IMO), bred for sound temperament (a MUST in this sport), and the only point being the same between BYB and musher, the dogs are loved by both groups.


I wasn't trying to argue mushing breeders at all, just so you know. I thought you were talking about bybs and not puppy mills and just wanted to correct you, but it was just a mistype.  

I understand the conditions they're kept in, but going back to my original point- do responsible mushers still let puppies go before even 7 weeks of age? From the sounds of it, the OP has had the pup for a while, and it's just going on ~7 weeks, so she had to have gotten it shortly after it was weaned.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't have too much to add -- I think everyone made the points I was going to make. Normal looks like a lovely pup, and despite the poopie picture, the parents look pretty happy. I've been reading blogs from mushers and herding folk for the past few weeks, and these dogs certainly aren't the pampered princes some of us keep as pets (cough, Dexter, cough). They truly are dogs with jobs. 

The breeder I plan on getting my next pup from produces both show and racing quality huskies. The pup will be a mixture of both -- the mother is purely a race dog, the father is from racing and show lines. She races for sport, not for her livelihood, though. So her dogs are still on the pampered, pet end of the spectrum. But I don't plan to be too intense with racing or any kind of showing, so the pup-to-be will suit my needs quite well -- and be health tested, raised in a home, etc.


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