# How much protein is too much?



## eaticecream (Jul 27, 2012)

My 7 month old is currently eating Natural Balance's Chicken & Potato formula. I was thinking about switching him to something else since this formula lists potato as the first ingredient and there are any other brands that are equally priced and have meat protein as the first ingredient. I was checking out the Taste of the Wild flavors and I see that the flavor I think he will be interested in (the Wild Wetlands one) has a pretty high protein percentage (32%). My dog isn't a working dog, nor is he extremely active, so would this be a problem? Also, at 7 months is it important that he eats a puppy food?


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

i had the same "issue". i was feeding fromm grain-inclusive and switched to taste of the wild. my dog is 10 month old.
i feed now taste of the wild puppy. its an all-life stages food and a little lower in protein. 
i am not convinced to feed high ptotein foods yet  
taste of the wild has a couple all-life stages formulas.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

Generally speaking pups usually do best on foods lower in protein say between 21-24%. However, seeing as Taste of the Wild is a grain free all life stages food, it would be perfectly acceptable for you to feed, as long as your pup does well on it... My usual suggestion is to start with Pacific Stream and Sierra Mountain (as they are lower in protein and less rich) and work your way up to the High Prairie, Wetlands and Southwest formulas...


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

RedGermanPinscher said:


> Generally speaking pups usually do best on foods lower in protein say between 21-24%. However, seeing as Taste of the Wild is a grain free all life stages food, it would be perfectly acceptable for you to feed, as long as your pup does well on it... My usual suggestion is to start with Pacific Stream and Sierra Mountain (as they are lower in protein and less rich) and work your way up to the High Prairie, Wetlands and Southwest formulas...


exactly what i did  worked for us


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

ToTW High Prairie, Wetlands, and Pacific Stream are not technically ALS I think.

High Prairie puppy, Pacific Stream puppy, and Sierra Mountain are ALS. Southwest Canyon is ALS but it's pretty crappy.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

They use to be hmmmmm?? May be they have changed that since the addition of the puppy formulas????


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## dexterborg (Nov 16, 2012)

Salina said:


> exactly what i did  worked for us


 loll mee too!!


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

RedGermanPinscher said:


> They use to be hmmmmm?? May be they have changed that since the addition of the puppy formulas????


 Yes puppy formulas are all life stages, as well as sierra mountain and Southwest canyon


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

I started off feeding Orijen puppy with a protein percentage of around 36%. Alannah developed symptoms like those of a UTI or bladder infection, so I had her urine tested and she was actually developing crystals in her urine. The vet said that it was likely due to the high protein content (and it was actually overworking her kidneys to process it all) so I switched her to Blue Buffalo Freedom (grain free) puppy with a protein content of around 23% or so I think. Her symptoms disappeared and she has done well since. I still might change her to something else because I'm not a huge fan of BB. But, a lot of the "better" grain free kibble had too much protein. 

Each dog is different basically. Some can process it and some cannot, I found.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Cadence does pretty much OK with any level of protein. I've fed him EVO (which is 40%) with no problems at all. Lyra is more sensitive, so right now I'm feeding them TOTW Lamb, which is less than 30%. I try to rotate brands and protein levels. Also, I feed home-cooked about half the time. Some of my favourite brands have protein levels of 30-35%, and the dogs are usually fine with those.


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## eaticecream (Jul 27, 2012)

Sounds like a plan! So according to the labels, ToTW Pacific Stream has only 2% more protein than Pacific Stream for all life stages. There doesn't seem to be much of a difference in the ingredients except that the puppy formula has peas and pea proteins as the 5th and 6th ingredient, and it seems the all life stages sells for $2 less on a 5-lbs bag. The descriptions seem to imply that puppies need more protein, so it probably really doesn't matter which I go for right? P.S. With that Diamond brand recall a while back, is it safe to trust ToTW now?


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Puppies actually DON'T need more protein.. you don't want them to grow too quickly. Slow growth is always better... it's just a ploy by the kibble companies to get people to buy puppy food. Puppies do just fine on adult food (I have not fed puppy food in years). If you feel iffy, just go with an ALS food like Orijen or TOTW. Orijen actually came out to say that they didn't have puppy food in their lineup initially, because all of their foods are ALS.. but people kept asking, so they came up with one.


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## eaticecream (Jul 27, 2012)

Thanks guys for all the help. I think i'll go pick up some ToTW tomorrow. Reaally hope my picky little eater likes it! Do you guys think getting some canned dog food to mix in a spoonful at a time is a good idea? My pup always seems more interested in his food if I mix in a spoonful of plain yogurt, or some plain rice. Would it matter if the brand of canned I got didn't match the brand of dry he eats? 
Edit: P.S. What's the deal with carrageenan? It's present in a majority of the canned foods and in some of the treats I give. Is it really carcinogenic as they say? Should I avoid it at all costs?


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

My vet suggested that I take my pup off of puppy food at 6 months due to the higher protein content in puppy food. In was feeding Origen which is way over in protein in what the vet was thinking (she never heard of Origen) so I switched to an adult food with lower protein. The vet was concerned with the fact a house pet doesn't need the same protein requirements as a working dog. I went with Pinnacle grain free ... pup seems to like it.


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

orijen is kind of "exreme". i wouldn't feel comfortable with a food that high in protein. but i'm happy with ToTW 

so what I am never sure is if the adult pacific formula is appropriate for puppies? because of the calcium%, phosphorus%?


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Most of the recent recalls actually have to do with the safety of humans in the house, not the dogs eating it. (Dogs with normal immune systems don't get salmonella, but the human touching the food certainly could.)

As to pets not needing protein like working dogs, pets don't need the calories of a working dog, but all dogs have the same protein requirements. Vets aren't a good source for nutritional information. I've had vets tell me that corn is exactly the same as meat, healthier even. If that were true, I could ditch all the fruits and veggies in my own diet, eat nothing but McDonalds hamburger patties and be fine. Yeah, no.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I was protein starving Max when he was on 22% protein kibble. He gets about double that now and gained a lot of muscle. He is a senior couch potato.

I failed at feeding super high protein kibble too. Max never had firm poop feeding through 2 large bags because he needed a lot less than I was giving him. His only run in with urinary crystals was from a stale sample. Now that I know to have the fresh sample spun in house no more crystals have shown up.

Iams made a short study on effects of protein and found that more was better and chicken was better than corn gluten meal. If I were using a commercial product I would be looking for a food with about 32% protein.
http://www.iams.com/pet-health/dog-article/importance-of-animal-based-proteins-in-dog-foods#qa3


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## Canaqua (Sep 27, 2011)

My understanding is that it is not protein that causes growth problems in puppies, but too much calcium. 

I don't know...my dogs eat a relatively high protein diet. and always have. Currently, Acana Grasslands dry food, at 32%, plus people scraps (all meat), plus some raw food (beef necks for dinner tonight, they are thrilled!). I leave carrots and apples for snacking, only the younger dog eats them. One dog is 16 and still health (though arthritic) and her bloodwork is A-OK, including kidney values. The other dog is 19 months and, so far, so good. I "underfeed" on the kibble, based on weight vs. feeding directions and add in a bunch of random meat stuff. Both dogs eat a fair amount of horse poop, for whatever that is worth .


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

zhaor said:


> Southwest Canyon is ALS but it's pretty crappy.


I know its off topic but I was wondering whats wrong with Taste of the Wild Southwest Canyon? Its a 4.5 out of 5 stars on dogfoodadvisor, rated better than Sierra Mountain and Pacific stream.


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

I think least amount of meat? More plant protein...and other stuff? Not sure. First ingredient is beef not beef meal, followed by peas.
But dogfoodadvisor.com should only be seen as advice. I wouldnt believe everything thats on there without questioning the information.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

I doubt dogfoodadvisor would rate southwest canyon better than any other ToTW formula. They might not have rated it yet though since it's relatively new.

Looking at meat content, when it comes to TotW, High Prairie and Wetlands are the best. Pacific Stream is still pretty good since even though it's lower protein than high prairie and wetlands, there is also minimal vegetable protein sources so it's still relatively good in terms of meat content. The puppy versions all have more vegetable protein added from peas and pea protein. Same with Sierra Mountain.

Southwest Canyon doesn't even have meat as the first real ingredient. It has water inclusive meat then 2 peas then lamb meal. As commonly stated, water inclusive meat would be much lower on the ingredient list so really it starts with two different higher protein vegetable sources. There's also more vegetable protein from pea protein further down the list.

For me when it comes to protein percentages in foods, I look at it as a way to gauge meat content. Quite simply, dogs eat meat. Is it possible to feed too much protein, sure. You can feed too much of anything and cause an imbalance. However the amount is based on mass per body mass not simple percentages in food. That's part of how "it depends on the dog"

ETA: Also I tend to feel like the idea of protein and kidney health is more of a carry over from human medicine. Uric acid affects urine pH and calcium levels but dogs can further breakdown uric acid unlike higher primates. If kidney functions are already impaired, then there could be any issue but for a healthy dog....idk.


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