# Kidney issues and first Seizure ( last night) dog food question



## Max3 (Aug 13, 2010)

All the vets tell me to use Hills K/D for my 7 yr old dog that has some of his values higher than normal. What I read is that the old rec's said to lower the protein, now they say higer protein is ok as long as it is good quality protein- this is what I am learning, but please if you know more post. Last night my dog had his first seizure, we don't know the cause, but I thought maybe I really do need to get him on a new food. So I got Taste of the wild salmon. The protein is 25%, his last food is 20%.

Has anyone use this food with a dog with kidney issues? Thanks


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

My dog had kidney AND liver problems, they switched her between the liver diet and urinary diet foods. I would ask your vet WHY they want that presc food, and if you trust your vet find a good one that meets the same criteria. I trust the people on here, and a lot of other places, but I personally trust my vet A LOT. When discussing my cats food, which was also prescription, she said it needed to be a "light" formula with Ph under 7, so I found one I was happy with, and we're going for it. If you don't trust your vet's up to the current research, then check with a specialist or find a vet you do trust. I wouldn't assume I know what the research means, there may be more going on than what you know exactly, and there may be a reason your vet wants something against the newer research. I hope this makes sense...


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

First off, I'm not a vet! But, IMHO, Taste of the Wild is not suitable for kidney disease dogs. Not because of the higher protein percentage, but because of the higher phosphorus percentages that come along with it. I emailed the company quite awhile back about using the food for kidney issues and they emailed me back that it probably wouldn't be a good idea. Their phosphorus percentages were too high. If I were you, I would discuss with my vet what they are trying to limit or accomplish with the presc. food. Then do some research and find as close as possible to what they want in the presc. food. It may mean homecooking, or maybe a kibble or canned food with lower protein/phosphorus. That is what I did with Lucy. She has beginning kidney disease....really at the very beginning stages. I chose to rotate dry foods like Canine Caviar Special Needs, Holistict Select Duck and Castor & Pollux Organix Less Active and top them with some lower phosphorus can foods like Canidae Platinum, Blue Buffalo Stew and Family Favorites, Wellness Senior, etc. Lucy also gets a nutracuetical that the vet recommended called Rubenal (slows the progression of the disease). She is doing great with the regimen. But your dog may need something different. Just please consult your vet and do plenty of research. One website that has some useful kidney disease info. is www.dogaware.com. Good luck!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

StellaLucyDesi said:


> First off, I'm not a vet! But, IMHO, Taste of the Wild is not suitable for kidney disease dogs. Not because of the higher protein percentage, but because of the higher phosphorus percentages that come along with it. *I emailed the company quite awhile back about using the food for kidney issues and they emailed me back that it probably wouldn't be a good idea. Their phosphorus percentages were too high*. If I were you, I would discuss with my vet what they are trying to limit or accomplish with the presc. food. Then do some research and find as close as possible to what they want in the presc. food. It may mean homecooking, or maybe a kibble or canned food with lower protein/phosphorus. That is what I did with Lucy. She has beginning kidney disease....really at the very beginning stages. I chose to rotate dry foods like Canine Caviar Special Needs, Holistict Select Duck and Castor & Pollux Organix Less Active and top them with some lower phosphorus can foods like Canidae Platinum, Blue Buffalo Stew and Family Favorites, Wellness Senior, etc. Lucy also gets a nutracuetical that the vet recommended called Rubenal (slows the progression of the disease). She is doing great with the regimen. But your dog may need something different. Just please consult your vet and do plenty of research. One website that has some useful kidney disease info. is www.dogaware.com. Good luck!


Great post, but how cool is it that a company would honestly tell you their product isn't recommended for XYZ problems? Kind of neat, since they could probably buffalo their way through it.
How long has Lucy been on Rubenal?


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi! Lucy has been on the Rubenal for 3 months. I order it online because the vet is more expensive. For Lucy it has no side effects at all. I'm not sure there would be any anyway, but she gets 1/2 a tab am and pm of the Rubenal 300. It is made from Rhuem Officinale...the rhubarb plant. She was diagnosed in May in a senior profile blood test. Creatinine was a little (very little) high. The doctor was concerned and wanted her to eat Purina NF (no way!) and use the Rubenal. I asked the vet what we were trying to accomplish with the food. I think she gets nervous around me because I take a proactive stance with my dogs and don't take everything she says as gospel LOL! But she really is a kind, good vet and loves the animals. She wanted to limit phosphorus, magnesium and sodium. So I started my research into the Rubenal and into dog foods. I don't cook at my house (but will if I really need to) and I didn't want to go raw (again, not yet anyway), so I started looking into all the kibbles and canned food. I work at a pet specialty store with fantastic selections, so I started there. About a month later, we retested Lucy's values. She came out normal!!! The vet was hard pressed to admit that I did it with commercial foods. But it's in her chart about what all I did. Oh, I almost forgot...she also gets Grizzly Salmon oil on her food. Lucy is feeling better. She has been running agility courses so much better since I started all this. Currently, she is rotated onto the Holistic Select Duck dry and today she had Blue Buffalo's Family Favorites chicken flavor canned food on top. But, when I began all this, she was on Canine Caviar Special Needs as the first dry food. Great food, IMO. No transition period. Now I know that the Special Needs has rice as the first ingredient, but it accomplished what I wanted without crappy ingredients. The Holistic Select Duck is a lower protein, but with meat as the first ingredient, as is the Castor & Pollux (I also like the fact this is made with organic ingred.) I think grain-free foods are excellent, but they don't work for my dogs at this stage in their lives. I have 4 dogs. Hazel is young, but has a heart murmur, so I keep that in the back of my mind. Stella is kinda old for a Cavalier, but is healthy and nobody thinks she's her age....they all think Hazel is the oldest and she's only 3 years hahahaha. Desi does have some health issues, but we keep them under control with supplements and good quality food/treats. Desi is a poorly bred designer dog (eek!)....Shih-Poo that I like to tell people is a Poodle/Shih-Tzu mix. He came from a byb/puppy mill type situation and I got him when I knew nothing about dogs. Lucy was adopted from a no-kill shelter.


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## Max3 (Aug 13, 2010)

Taste of the wild vet wrote me back this morning and said that the Salmon was 1.1% phos. I don't think that is too high, but I will look into these other foods. I go to one of my vets today. I have several vets that I use because once when I used one vet only she almost killed my dog, so now I don't use her but I have found 3 that I call on. This one that called me back this morning said that I should have them run a complete CBC, Chem and thyroid to see if my dog has low thyroid- he said that could cause the seizure, but added many times there is no known cause. My dog does have thinning chest hair, so it is possible but could be the low fat food I have him on. I am going to try and return this other food, it's open but also after reading post of this food making dogs ill, it makes me think twice. 
Thank you all for posting what food's you all have used. That really helps a ton !!!
I will post later what I learn from the vet today.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi! Max3...I agree that 1.1 isn't all that high, but in Lucy's case, I was trying to stay below 1.0. And I already had some foods that I'd found, so I didn't pursue TOTW any further. Also, I think the CBC, Chem and Thyroid tests are a good idea, too. What low-fat food are you using at present? I don't like to go below 10% max. fat for my gang, unless absolutely necessary...Desi had acute pancreatitis once...another story, another day lol. Also, I know TOTW is a good food and alot of people use it successfully, but the few times I did try it with my dogs (before Lucy's illness), they did not do well on it. Don't forget to let us know what your vets tell you. I hope your dog feels better soon! Good Luck!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Hi! Lucy has been on the Rubenal for 3 months. I order it online because the vet is more expensive. For Lucy it has no side effects at all. I'm not sure there would be any anyway, but she gets 1/2 a tab am and pm of the Rubenal 300. It is made from Rhuem Officinale...the rhubarb plant. She was diagnosed in May in a senior profile blood test. 

*Great that you caught her before she became symptomatic. I sometimes feel horrible because Dude didn't get bloodwork done for too long and he was hypothyroid. Since starting him on a supplement, his energy, coat, and over all well being has MUCH improved. *

Creatinine was a little (very little) high. The doctor was concerned and wanted her to eat Purina NF (no way!) and use the Rubenal. I asked the vet what we were trying to accomplish with the food. I think she gets nervous around me because I take a proactive stance with my dogs and don't take everything she says as gospel LOL! But she really is a kind, good vet and loves the animals. 

*She sounds good. I've had some vets tell me they LIKE clients who are "intimidating" in that way; because it gives them a boost to continue their education (it doesn't stop when they graduate). *

She wanted to limit phosphorus, magnesium and sodium. So I started my research into the Rubenal and into dog foods. I don't cook at my house (but will if I really need to) and I didn't want to go raw (again, not yet anyway), so I started looking into all the kibbles and canned food. I work at a pet specialty store with fantastic selections, so I started there. About a month later, we retested Lucy's values. She came out normal!!! The vet was hard pressed to admit that I did it with commercial foods. But it's in her chart about what all I did. Oh, I almost forgot...she also gets Grizzly Salmon oil on her food. Lucy is feeling better. She has been running agility courses so much better since I started all this. Currently, she is rotated onto the Holistic Select Duck dry and today she had Blue Buffalo's Family Favorites chicken flavor canned food on top. But, when I began all this, she was on Canine Caviar Special Needs as the first dry food. Great food, IMO. No transition period. Now I know that the Special Needs has rice as the first ingredient, but it accomplished what I wanted without crappy ingredients. The Holistic Select Duck is a lower protein, but with meat as the first ingredient, as is the Castor & Pollux (I also like the fact this is made with organic ingred.) I think grain-free foods are excellent, but they don't work for my dogs at this stage in their lives. I have 4 dogs. Hazel is young, but has a heart murmur, so I keep that in the back of my mind. Stella is kinda old for a Cavalier, but is healthy and nobody thinks she's her age....they all think Hazel is the oldest and she's only 3 years hahahaha. Desi does have some health issues, but we keep them under control with supplements and good quality food/treats. Desi is a poorly bred designer dog (eek!)....Shih-Poo that I like to tell people is a Poodle/Shih-Tzu mix. He came from a byb/puppy mill type situation and I got him when I knew nothing about dogs. Lucy was adopted from a no-kill shelter.

*Awesome that she's feeling so much better! I think grain free and raw are excellent diets, but Auz does best with some grains. I throw TOTW in his rotation, but he really does best on Royal Canin (gimmick or not), and Diamond Naturals. (The fat has to be at least 18-19% for him, which rules out a lot of diets). A food can be good but not good for (insert dog). Same for people. Fish is a great food, but I'm allergic to it, so it's not good for ME. (Too bad, I need the brain food  )*



Max3 said:


> Taste of the wild vet wrote me back this morning and said that the Salmon was 1.1% phos. I don't think that is too high, but I will look into these other foods. I go to one of my vets today. I have several vets that I use because once when I used one vet only she almost killed my dog, so now I don't use her but I have found 3 that I call on. This one that called me back this morning said that I should have them run a complete CBC, Chem and thyroid to see if my dog has low thyroid- he said that could cause the seizure, but added many times there is no known cause. My dog does have thinning chest hair, so it is possible but could be the low fat food I have him on. I am going to try and return this other food, it's open but also after reading post of this food making dogs ill, it makes me think twice.
> Thank you all for posting what food's you all have used. That really helps a ton !!!
> I will post later what I learn from the vet today.


Good luck, I hope you get some good news and an easy fix for your dog. How is his general demeanor? Like I posted earlier, my oldest dog (9 years) was diagnosed with low thyroid. His coat was crap, his skin was crap and he was very low-key, slept alot, etc. Now he's like having a pup in the house again


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## Max3 (Aug 13, 2010)

As promised, I want to report the findings. The last time I had his bloodwork check they said he needed to be put on K/D, another vet said that he could just have isses with his teeth- that many times there is a slight infection going on and the next time you test him ( after getting his teeth cleaned) then it will provide better information. Ok, so I did all of that and guess what? His Kidney's are doing fine...the teeth cleaning helped. This other vet I use( yes, I use several to get all the information ~ (no disrespect to any of them) said I needed to do a full panel, I think I said that in the begining..anyways, it was done and he has LOW thyroid. So we started him on medication today and in a month they will recheck his values and see if he is on the correct dose. They told me that untill he is on the right amout that he could still have seizures.
I am ever so thankful for spending the extra money that I really could not afford, but it provided me with information quickly. Oh, yes, not one of the vets said I should do this right away- so keep in mind that the blood work does give a lot of clues and I am learning to start doing this at least once a year when they get their shots as they age. 
I hope this information will help others as will.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks for letting us know how everything is going. It sounds like you have a handle on it now and your dog is going to do okay...I'm so glad! I have blood tests done on all my seniors at least once a year, if not every six months. Very good idea. Dogs can be ill and not show any, or many, symptoms. In fact, I didn't think Lucy was acting any differently than usual, but when she was diagnosed and we changed things she became a different dog (for the better). More energy and alertness and at the same time, more calmness. So, I agree with you on how important vet visits and tests are for senior dogs....actually all dogs.


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