# Need Help, please no judgement



## KaiKrishna (Oct 19, 2007)

Hey everyone, I don't post often so you probably don't recognize me. I have a 7 month Great Pyrenees and a 4 month old Saint Bernard. 
I posted before about barking problems with my Great Pyrenees to get suggestions. 
We got our female Pyrenees when she was a puppy, after having a mountian lion scare and having a bear on our back porch. I researched dogs and knew I wanted something big enough not to attract predators, something that would guard against predators, and something that was extremely good with children. I researched Great Pyrenees and it seemed to fit the bill. I read a little about their barking problems but I figured with training and lots of attention it wouldn't be a big issue. 
She really began barking about two months ago. She barks at everything, the wind rustling, frogs, our neighbors, a distant dog. She barks at the forest, and walks around actively looking for things to bark at. She has a big yard, probably over an acre fenced in, and is allowed in parts of the house. She has a good buddy in our Saint Bernard. She gets along with the chickens. We take her on almost daily walks. We give her chew toys and fun toys with peanut butter hidden in them, ect. We let them know who is alpha and do obedience on walks. We give them affection. 
The barking became such a problem that I came and posted a thread here and got some good advice, I upped her exercise so much I was getting really tired, took her to town with me often, gave her tons of socialization. The barking continues. 
I did more research and found out that this is the number one reason people get rid of Great Pryenees, and that barking is not a behavior problem as much as an instinct. They are bred to bark. Unfortunetly this creates lots of problems for people. I saw cases of lawsuits from angry neighbors. Some Pyrenees bark more than others but the breed tends to bark alot. 
I have run out of tricks in my bag. She barks almost as much as she doesn't. It must drive our neighbors crazy because they can't go in their yard without being barked at. We have tried obedience and it doesn't help with the barking. Honestly she has been driving us crazy for a while with the barking. I really like her otherwise, but the barking is taking a huge toll on us. If I was one of those people who got rid of dogs when problems arise I wuold have thrown in the towel. For now I still can't think of giving her up despite the fact that she barks non stop and is driving us crazy. If I knew of a great wonderful friend who loved her in an ideal situation that would be different and I would honestly probably be relieved. 
I guess what I am asking is if we do have to give her up in the future, if we move to a neighborhood with other houses around or if the neighbors finally say enough, what can I do now to make sure she has the best chance at a good home later? Should I try to socialize as much as possible? How do you find a dog a home? I can't even believe I am asking these questions and I can't imagine bringing myself to do it in the future. I guess I just worry about her, I keep waiting for the neighbors to call, and honestly it is hard to think of ten years of constant barking. I can put up with alot, they chew up valuable things, dig big holes, ect, but it is so hard to figure out what to do about the barking. 
Thanks for any suggestions and I am feeling really sensitive about this so please try to be sensitive in your answers. Thanks. 

As a breed, the dogs do have a reputation for barking. "Like all livestock guardian breeds, Great Pyrenees are barkers, especially at night," says the breed information section of the Great Pyrenees Club of America website. "The amount of barking varies from individual to individual, but the instinct is there and in some cases can cause major problems.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

One thing I would recommend doing is posting this on some LGD and Pyr forums. I know that I've been told that a lot of dogs are worse barkers as 'teenagers' when they're trying to figure out what you want them to warn you about. what I wuold do is when she barks, go out, see what she's barking at, and reward her (if it's something you WANT to hear about) or tell her to shush if it's not. She *is* capable of learning which things you deem important enough to bark about.


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## mastiffmama27 (Nov 18, 2007)

Right on Dogstar. I would have suggested the same thing but I'll add that it really does work. My mastiff was a chronic barker till she figured out what I wanted her to bark at and what I didn't.Also once I 'check it out' she settles right down. Guess she figures that once she lets me know I can handle it from there.


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## KaiKrishna (Oct 19, 2007)

I hope you're right Dogstar. I would be so happy if she mellowed with age. I actually do exactly what you advocate, I have tried both rewarding her when she barks and telling her "enough", and then saying "shush". She now feels guilty for barking and looks in the window to see if i'm watching, not that it slows her down.
When I say she barks alot, she barks ALOT. I had our babysitter over, and she said how our dog barked non stop and seemed really surprised. When my mom came she said she doesn't know how we live with it and there is no way she could handle it. 
I've had alot of dogs and i've never seen anything that even came close. I won't do the whole shock collar thing, it just seems inhumane to me.


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## whimsy (Aug 19, 2007)

Shock collars have a place in training dogs, and they are far from inhumane. I would use a shock collar any day before giving up my dog. Dogs are smart and fast learners, it doesn't take them long to realize they are punishing themselves. You can buy a shock collar with different levels...if your dog is quiet after the first bark the collar returns to very mild on it's own...if the dog continues barking the level rises until the dog feels it enough to be deterred. Once your dog stops barking, you can tape a dead battery cell to ordinairy collar and he will think it's the bark collar. Most dogs never revert to barking once cured...and it doesn't hurt them...your Pyr has much fur, you might have to clip around the neck a bit. In the end, you have a quiet dog that doesn't need rehoming.
Next solution is to keep the dog indoors except for potty time. Our neighbour has a pyr who is inside mostly but stopped barking before she was 2 yrs.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I'd actually look at the citronella collars before the shock collars. Particulaly on heavy-coated dogs ,they are shown to be more effective.


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## Annamarie (Oct 14, 2007)

I second the barking collar. especially in a nuisance barker like this one.


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## KaiKrishna (Oct 19, 2007)

I read about shock collars and Great Pyrenees, and about them being ineffective and sometimes abusive for the breed. It stated that Pyrenees have such an instinct to bark that they will often allow themselves to be shocked so they can keep barking. The same website said that those electric fence borders aren't effective at keeping Great Pyrenees in because they will risk getting shocked to leave the perimeter.
I try to keep her in more these days as she barks less.


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## Priss and Pedro's Mama (Nov 4, 2007)

As you are finding out, Pyrs bark. They can't help it anymore than they can help breathing pretty much. Keeping her inside will help...fewer things will catch her attention and she won't be tempted to bark out of boredom. Mom's dogs bark when the neighbor (1/4 mile away) has company. They just *know* when something isn't exactly how it should be (to them). As a prior poster said, they do calm down with it some as they age and figure out what is a "threat" and what isn't. 

Contact a pyr rescue in your area. If you can't find one, send me a PM or post and I can help you find one. Rescues don't want to take in another dog if they can help it so they will most likely be willing to help you out.


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## KaiKrishna (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks Priss and Pedro's Mama, that is good advice. I hadn't even thought of a Great Pyrenees rescue. I'm no where near giving her up, but I think I will be able to relax if I feel there could be another home if we ever had to give her up. Hopefully she will relax in the next year or so and it won't be such an issue.


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## Taz Monkey (Sep 2, 2007)

bring your dog inside where she is a part of your family. A 7 month old dog of any breed needs more than "almost daily walks". My dogs bark sometimes when they are outside, at the neighbors, squirrels, cars...but then they come back inside with me and are silent.


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## Priss and Pedro's Mama (Nov 4, 2007)

KaiKrishna said:


> Thanks Priss and Pedro's Mama, that is good advice. I hadn't even thought of a Great Pyrenees rescue. I'm no where near giving her up, but I think I will be able to relax if I feel there could be another home if we ever had to give her up. Hopefully she will relax in the next year or so and it won't be such an issue.


I re-read what I wrote...I hope you understood that I meant to contact them for advice and training help not owner surrender. She's young, and with time and training I think you'll get it down to tolerable levels.



Taz Monkey said:


> bring your dog inside where she is a part of your family. A 7 month old dog of any breed needs more than "almost daily walks". My dogs bark sometimes when they are outside, at the neighbors, squirrels, cars...but then they come back inside with me and are silent.


While I agree that inside time will help as it lessens the triggers to barking, Pyrs are quite unlike other breeds in the barking department. A limb falls out of a tree and most dogs will bark at the noise/disruption it causes. A pyr will bark at that and then bark at the limb until you clean it up because it is "out of place." Pyrs are one of those breeds that normal methods of bark control don't work as well on. It is kind of like trying to train the need to retrieve out of a Golden or the need to herd out of a BC. Just doesn't work.


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## xxxlisaxxx (Oct 15, 2007)

KaiKrishna said:


> I try to keep her in more these days as she barks less.


I think this is the key I have owned 4 dogs in my time (2 currently with me) and the first 2 I kept outside from morning to night (as I had a baby at the time) it was non stop barking. The 2 I have now 2 year old cocker and 15 week old Samoyed dont bark at all as they are indoors more than they are out. I find at night time when its dark and we let them out for potty that they will bark (both of them) and I am convinced its to warn anything off as it is dark. Samoyeds are known for barking or howling and I am out to prove my point that this is done more when they are kept outside (I may be eating those words in a few months ). I know the breed you have are well known for it but as you stated she seems to bark less indoors.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

The fact that you say she's barking and then looking in the window at you could mean that she's wanting your attention. I agree with everyone who said bring her in more, I have a breed known for barking too and mine bark very little in the house, but outside it's a barkfest at _everything_. I missed whether you said you have livestock though...if you do I suppose bringing the dog in would defeat the purpose of a LGD. My other suggestion would be to try some structured exersize that will occupy her mind as opposed to just tiring her out, or formal obedience classes if you haven't already. If you got her from a breeder, I'd ask the breeder for suggestions too.


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## whimsy (Aug 19, 2007)

Citronella collars don't seem to work on Pyrs.The shock collars do work, you just have to shave the hair a bit so she will feel the sting...and no, it does them no harm. But I do stand by my point of keeping her inside with you, Pyrs are family dogs...aren't they all... I think boredom and attention seeking is the biggest part of the problem with her. Training classes are also a great help...she's young, give her time to adjust and mature...they are such a wonderful companion and keeper of the home.


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

I know nothing about this kind of dog....but I can tell you that I know how you are feeling. I had a dog years ago (half shephard half hound) that barked around the clock. It drove me crazy to the point where I thought I was going insane. We did the citronella collar and it did work - he hated it. But he was a smart dog and got around it. Also we had to refill it etc etc etc. Anyway, I wasn't a very smart dog owner then and now realize my dog was just plain bored. I had a baby at the time and the poor thing was out in the yard all by himself. He would push his kong ball under the fence and bark knowing one of us would eventually go out and throw it back for him (duh - he was just trying to get someone to play with him). Anyway.....I hope you find something that helps you. I read your post and know exactly how you are feeling. it's a tough thing to live with. Much luck to you.


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## 007Dogs (Aug 22, 2007)

It is very difficult to train a dog that was bred to bark, not to do what comes naturally for them. I think alot of it is bordom and age. There is a man who lives here who use to do private rescue for the breed. He must have a 5 acre area fenced with 30 of them. I don't remember any excessive barking when I went to visit. 
I don't like to use shock collars on dogs under a year of age. And yes they can do harm. Dogs who continue to bark with a shock collar on can get serious burns on there neck. So you have to monitor them. And you can not buy a cheap one, because those ones shock even if another dog barks or other noises will set them off. And then of coarse the dog learns nothing. And with this breed, you would have to shave hair from around the neck. Have you thought about using a professinal behaviorist? Or get the dog involved in other activities, like a herding class or obediance. Or both. If you got the dog to guard and keep bears and mountain lions away from your home, you do not want to discourage all barking. Because then it sort of defeats your purpose of obtaining the dog in the first place.


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## Taz Monkey (Sep 2, 2007)

Priss and Pedro's Mama said:


> I re-read what I wrote...I hope you understood that I meant to contact them for advice and training help not owner surrender. She's young, and with time and training I think you'll get it down to tolerable levels.
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree that inside time will help as it lessens the triggers to barking, Pyrs are quite unlike other breeds in the barking department. A limb falls out of a tree and most dogs will bark at the noise/disruption it causes. A pyr will bark at that and then bark at the limb until you clean it up because it is "out of place." Pyrs are one of those breeds that normal methods of bark control don't work as well on. It is kind of like trying to train the need to retrieve out of a Golden or the need to herd out of a BC. Just doesn't work.



I have a golden retriever who would retriever her tennis ball 24 hours a day if someone would throw it that long. But as soon as I say "enough", she will stop. If the dog was inside, the OP could teach the dog to learn the word "quiet". When the dog barks, she is told to be quiet. I'm not saying that the OP needs to train the dog not to bark. A dog will bark. They are dogs. But the dog will be much easier to train when to STOP barking if she is inside the house with her owner. The OP cannot teach the dog anything if the dog is always outside and the owner is inside. And I can guarantee the dog willn bark much less if it is inside, no matter what the breed.


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