# Badly behaved bullmastiff puppy



## janfree (Jun 6, 2013)

A week ago we got a new bullmastiff puppy. He is 9 wks old. He does sometimes have accidents in the house but not doing too bad, hates his crate, and is stubborn beyond belief! He refuses to be walked on a lead until he's ready and then only goes a few feet or so then stops again. I try not to pick him up he's really too heavy already. But taking him for even a short walk can take up to an hour. Yanking on his martin dale collar just makes him dig in deeper and even already he's packing some serious power; short of giving him cement burns on his belly I really don't know what to do. I'm trying to hold off on the treat training and just reward him with praise and hugs. I've also been trying the dominant roll over and feel like a bit of a fool. At first he was very defiant and tried to snap at me (the breeder told me that under no circumstances was he allowed to touch human skin with his teeth and to press his cheeks onto his teeth and say "no". I have no idea if its helping) but he does calm down faster than he used to.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

best way I can describe the mind set is always " go for the yes" the approaches you are using are strengthening the "NO" when you push and pull on them many dogs will push and pull equally back at you in the wrong direction of what you want. If food is a high motivator then use it... get the body motion going in the right directions for learning the right responses .. Food doesn't have to be a life long crutch.. But right now you need to turn your training around to the productive side and there is nothing wrong with using food as a motivator. You want a dog that wants to work with you,, (especially the ones that will be too big and strong as adults to use force)... as you have already stated..


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

A nine-week-old puppy is not "defiant" or dominant or stubborn. It's a baby, the equivalent of a human infant. It can't walk for long, and it bites everything it can (because puppies explore with their mouths and play with their mouths, and don't yet understand how to be gentle). In addition, you haven't had the puppy long enough yet for him to be bonded with you or care about pleasing you, so even if he ends up being the type of dog who works for praise, praise doesn't motivate him _yet_. Finally, most dogs dislike hugs. That's a primate trait, not a canine trait.

The "dominant roll over," or alpha roll, is a useless technique. It does nothing but scare a puppy. The Monks of New Skete advised it in a book a long time ago, but have since removed that part from subsequent editions. They had thought that wolves roll each other like that to establish leadership, but they don't... when a wolf or dog rolls over and shows its belly, that's a voluntary action. Dogs or wolves will only roll each other in a serious fight... so when you do that to a puppy, the puppy could think you're going to kill him!

Treat training is not bad -- it's a fast and easy way to train. Some people seem to think that treats are bribes, but they're not -- they're rewards. Would you like to work for free? Well, dogs don't either.  And people who train with treats don't need to carry treats around for the dog's entire life -- you use a treat to help train a behavior, then fade it out (only giving a treat every few times the dog does the behavior). Eventually you can treat very rarely. 

This is a free online training textbook (I think you need to sign up for the site now to see the chapters, but it's all free) written by a great behaviorist and trainer. It covers how to teach bite inhibition, how to potty train, and all of the other important things: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training

And here are a few articles for you to read about dominance theory and why it's outdated and disproved:

De-Bunking the "Alpha Dog" Theory
AVSAB Position Statement on the Use of Dominance Theory in Behavior Modification of Animals
Misconceptions of the Mythical Alpha Dog
Wolf expert L. David Mech's site (he helped popularize the whole "pack order"/alpha/dominance thing, but later learned that much of what he believed was wrong)

Oh, one more thing -- it's not a good idea to walk a nine-week-old pup for very long, especially a large-breed pup. That can harm a pup's growing bones and joints and cause big problems in the future. Also, try not to walk the pup anywhere that other dogs have gone to the bathroom until he's had all three sets of puppy shots, because he may not be immune to parvovirus (VERY serious and expensive to treat) or other diseases until after the third set.


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## janfree (Jun 6, 2013)

I have only walked him up and down the driveway, but he is quite happy to play and muck about with our 8 yr. doodle off leash in the yard. They are always supervised and I think they have definitely worked out who belongs where and in what order. The puppy seems very comfortable in engaging in rough play and daisy doodle is quite gentle and they act like siblings, but I doubt he has usurped her position as top dog. He does seem to fit his breed in that he really doesn't need large amounts of exercise and after 10 min. of play is down for 3 hours. used to a puppy that is jumpy and lively as was daisy as a puppy. Our guy Hitch is super mellow and it was a bit of a surprise. He really dislikes going into his crate at night understandably, but I only put him in for an hour during the day and then about 10 at night. He has access to water so I usually take him outside twice. I've put the crate on my bed and talked to him. He gets a treat when he goes in and his chew bones. I try to get him to go 3 hours but sometimes I can't stand it and take him out earlier. As soon as the door closes he cries. I tried to have him on my bed but he fell off so that didn't work (he's okay). So back to the crate and the crying how long???


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

Look up crate games on YouTube. Kikopup has a great one and I also recommend all of her training videos.

You REALLY need to change your thinking when it comes to his behavior. He's not badly behaved at all. In fact, he wins an award at being a puppy. He's doing ALL of the things that are instinctual social skills for being a dog.

You have to train him what the human rules are. Any "misbehavior" is because you didn't prevent it or teach him what TO do. He pees? You aren't taking him out frequently enough. He cries in the crate? You aren't making it rewarding enough. And as for biting? Read The Bite Stops Here sticky in the basic questions section. Puppies, just like human babies, explore through their mouth. It's completely natural and he will continue to do it until 4 or 5 months when he starts getting his adult teeth. It's your job to teach him that humans have sensitive skin, not protective coats, and disengage with any hard bites. The bites will get lighter and lighter and then just fade out.


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

Good advice above! Another thing I'd try is to let your pup wear his leash everywhere, even in the house, so he can get used to something dragging behind him. After he gets used to this, pick up the leash (treat if he doesn't yank away from you). Then let him walk around the house with you following him where ever he goes (no pressure on the leash). You want the pup to learn that the leash won't hurt him. Eventually, work on getting him to go where you want him to go, using the treat advice given in previous posts.

Baby steps for your baby!


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

Why would you hold off on treat training? Seriously, that makes no sense.

Puppies and walking sucks. They often just want to sit down. It gets better with time and coaxing them with some treats can help.

I'd SERIOUSLY advocate that you get some obedience training including some puppy play classes. You have a frickin huge dog. As such, you have a onus to really train it to deal with small dogs and be really well behaved. Any negative interactions with a bullmastiff are going to get blamed on the bullmastiff. To boot, you're not going to be able to physically outpower the dog.

Get some real training. You can typically start after the second round of shots. I wouldn't be too worried about the walks at this stage. Walking puppies is usually really frustrating.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I want just add something quick here, you should not use a martingale until he's about 6 months old. And please get training on how to properly use it as it can cause serious damage or death if used incorrectly, such as yanking on it.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Most giant breed breeders do NOT recommend forced walks on leash. Romping in the yard, even with another dog, is easier on growing bones and joints because the puppy sets their own pace and can stop and start as needed. If you do walks, they recommend less than 1 mile for the first year and up to 2 miles for the second, on a soft surface and using a harness rather than a collar. It's easier on the neck, as others have mentioned.

DO work on obedience, but particularly for pups, keep it positive. Mastiff breeds can be stubborn and shut down if you push too hard, too soon. Your pup isn't doing these things to be disobedient, he's doing them because he's a puppy and doesn't know better. A puppy class is also a great idea, as mentioned before. You will want to socialize a giant breed pup with as many people and dogs as possible and make those positive experiences so that he won't be fearful and aggressive later.


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## janfree (Jun 6, 2013)

How old should he be before puppy classes? My vet said at least 3 mos. so he's had his second set of shots. We have a good one in Vancouver and classes start again in sept. will this be too late he wiil be 5 mos. then. I have started using treats as per everyones suggestions. He is much better at coming when called and is starting to follow me around thinking there may be a treat in it for him. He's still a bit standoffish with us humans but has totally bonded to our doodle. She's normally not very patient with other dogs but she is putting up with a lot from him. He's trying to practice his tackling with her and she thinks its the greatest fun she's ever had. She gets her ball in her mouth and he tries to take it out. They seem very happy together


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Follow your vet's advice when it comes to puppy classes. They know your region and its rates of diseases and such.

Until then, there's plenty you can do. You can work on socialization by having your pup meet all kinds of different people and get treats from them so that he's confident with strangers. You can work on bite inhibition and getting him used to having his paws, teeth, and other bits handled so that he won't be fearful of grooming, vet checkups, nail trims and such. You can teach him a couple of basic commands using positive methods to help you bond and get him used to training and know that it's something fun. You can play in the backyard or another safe area to bond and help wear him out.

Then once he's cleared by the vet, he'll be all ready for puppy class!


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Packetsmom has great advice about talking to your vet about starting classes and what to do until then.  Generally, a good dog training facility will have guidelines about age and number of vaccinations, and they will maintain a safe environment for the dogs in their classes, but check with your vet about risk in your area.

You can also check out Kikopup on youtube for great training instruction you can start now. The first four Dog Training Basics videos provide solid background information and the remaining ones focus on specific behaviors or aspects of training. There are several that address issues you seem to be having: leash walking, bite inhibition, handling, and building attention. 

I want to reassure you that 5 months isn't too late. We didn't get our puppy until she was 5 1/2 months and she had very basic training only (crate, potty, and sort of bite inhibition). Due to various circumstances, Katie didn't start classes until she was almost 9 months and she was fine. It would have been nice to start earlier, but she wasn't held back because of a late start. Many dogs don't start any form of real training until they're older. Don't worry about it being too late.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

In addition, the bulk of what pups get from puppy classes is the socialization of spending time with other dogs that are about at the same level, as opposed to being bullied by older, bigger dogs, and learning to pay attention to commands in a very distracting setting. The actual training part is more about teaching the humans how to communicate with their dogs and train them, so that part you can definitely work on at home and then you can focus on the socialization and "proofing" (getting your dog used to following commands in different and distracting settings) commands your dog may already know at the puppy class.

If you can manage it, after your dog gets the ok to be around other dogs from the vet, you might want to try to find other puppies around his same age or very patient and well-mannered adult dogs and set up playdates. Don't make the same mistake I did and go to the dog park looking for this...we had a bad experience with an aggressive older dog that actually has us a bit behind in socialization and you don't want that. If you know other dog owners with calmer, well-mannered dogs or pups that you could set up playdates with in a safe place, though, it would help get you going with the socialization process sooner.


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

"He's still a bit standoffish with us humans "

Just being what he is, I'd get him as much contact with people as you can. I'd probably do it without the other dog around as well. He's going to be huge, so you definitely want him friendly with people. See if there are any outdoor markets where there are tons of people and 0 puppies. I used to like the upscale outdoor shopping area near me. Almost 0 dogs. The ones there had rich parents so they definitely had their shots and no dogs were peeing or pooping there. Work on some contact with kids as well. Like people said above, tug on all parts of his body. A huge dog means you have way more work. When a chihuahua slips up, people laugh, when a bullmastiff slips up, you have a major issue.


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## marti1357 (Jun 8, 2013)

Its still a baby! You can't expect her to behave like an adult. Walking nicely on a leash - she will have plenty of time for that. For now, make it a fun game that you enjoy as well. She may be curious about new people and new places. As others said, take her to many places. Let her meet people and use treats to grab her attention. Let her sniff new things so she becomes accepting to new environments. 5 months is not too late to teach, train and socialize. She hates the crate? Why would you expect her to like that? But if you make it a fun place to be in, and good things happen when she is there, well - that's another thing. Also don't force anything at this age. (There is no dominance yet, although that can develop later). Do it smoothly and make it fun. 
Bottom line - take it easy, enjoy the time with your dog and worry less. 
Good Luck!


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## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

Our little one is also 9 weeks old and as such is not very interested in going very far. Last night we took him with us while walking our adult dog, intending to mostly carry him, but turned out that he will follow his big friend anywhere. He would have walked the entire half mile if we had let him, but we picked him up part way through so it wouldn't be too hard on his bones. We also made sure that there was never any pressure on his collar while he was walking. Maybe your doodle would be helpful for encouraging short walks as well.


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## marti1357 (Jun 8, 2013)

Analytical Ada said:


> Our little one is also 9 weeks old and as such is not very interested in going very far. Last night we took him with us while walking our adult dog, intending to mostly carry him, but turned out that he will follow his big friend anywhere. He would have walked the entire half mile if we had let him, but we picked him up part way through so it wouldn't be too hard on his bones. We also made sure that there was never any pressure on his collar while he was walking. Maybe your doodle would be helpful for encouraging short walks as well.


Is it a Bullmastiff? Where did you get it from?


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## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

Oh, no, he's a Standard Schnauzer. I just meant "our little one" in terms of the fact that we also have a puppy. Bullmastiffs are pretty neat dogs, though.


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