# What breed? (Curious)



## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Hello everyone!

Well, I'm not getting a dog /right/ now, but I may in the future and have been seriously considering it, so I got to wondering... What breed would be best for me?

I know more what I don't want than what I do, so here is a list of traits that I don't want in a dog (I'm trying to decide through method of elimination):

-hyper
-smells
-DAILY grooming
-does not tolerate heat (I live in the Pacific Northwest, but plan to move somewhere warm at the first opportunity)
-needs lots of exercise
-requires a fenced yard
-requires a job
-is a pug, bulldog or boxer (I just don't like them...)
-or a pit bull (harder to get an apartment and they're illegal in some areas)
-must play fetch (every other game is fine, but not fetch-- I hate slobbery toys and can't throw)
-drools
-snorts or grunts
-poor health
-extremely short lifespan
-has a "beard"
-wirehaired
-large
-requires a "dominant owner" (don't know if I count)

List of good traits:
-quietly affectionate; I just don't want a dog who gets easily excited and jumps all over me
-smaller breeds can be less calm, as they aren't so overwhelming-- however, if they are, please say so! They still shouldn't be bouncing off the walls hyper, however
-can live without a fenced yard
-cuddly
-does well when left alone during the day
-empathetic
-small, medium or giant
-fur that feels good to the touch
-apartment friendly (I don't know where I may move in the future, so it comes down to being adaptable)
-empathetic

My favorite breeds are sighthounds and the Great Pyrenees, but both require a fenced yard so I don't believe they're options.

I would LOVE a dog who looks like Becquerel (Homestuck character, looks like a White German Shepherd without eyes, nose or mouth), but I don't think that should be my first priority.

A dog who looks like a wolf would also be awesome (there are breeds out there that are far more wolf like than huskies and still have no wolf in their lineage).

I've been considering a retired English Setter. I have also been thinking that a Japanese Chin may be good?

I really don't care if the dog can learn a million tricks.

I'm thinking of getting back into wildlife photography, so a pointing dog would be awesome. That's really not super important, though.

Since all dogs are individuals, feel free to suggest one who has one or two of the "negative" traits. I'm looking for an adult dog anyway, so I'll have a good idea of their personality.

Unhealthy dog breeds are alright to suggest, but the less healthy a dog, the less likely I am to rescue, for obvious reasons.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Greys don't require a fenced yard. If you want a Bec (I'm a Homestuck too!) go for a white husky or white GSD, but both those will need brushing near-daily. A pyr will also require brushing near-daily. The only breeds that don't need brushing daily are wirehaired breeds or super smooth coated breeds like greys and Dobermans. Greyhounds seem like your best choice really, IMO.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

It sounds like you want a dog without it being a dog? dogs get smelly when wet (most of the time) also you don't want the large dog but want giant? what about exercise? by not daily grooming do you want a dog that doesn't shed? how long are you going to walk it each day? also if you are going to move to an apartment it is significantly harder to find an apartment that houses dogs over 25 lbs. So maybe you want to go with a small/medium breed so that isn't a problem (just a suggestion). I'm not saying it's impossible to find an apartment for a giant dog but it's hard. Maybe you should have a cat? Also a LOT of rescues require you to have a fence...not every rescue but a lot of them do. Not trying to be rude I'm just trying to figure out what you really want because you are eliminating a lot of breeds with the things you don't like.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Uh, you pretty much eliminated every dog ever.

All dogs need daily grooming, they will all start to smell without grooming, they're all noisy...

No dog requires a "dominant" owner because dog -> human dominance isn't real.

"pointing" dogs are going to need a lot of exercise. Anything that "looks lie a wolf" is going to need A LOT of exercise, A LOT of grooming, probably isn't going to be very playful or affectionate. GSDs also need A LOT of exercise and A LOT of grooming.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

>.> Not all dogs require daily grooming.... I don't groom Syd every day and I'd say she's a pretty clean dog!

But in general, you are probably wanting a dog that doesn't exist if you want every single trait you listed to be met...


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Nah, not every trait needs to be met. I'm more focusing on the traits that I don't want. The other list is sort of there for the heck of it right now, I guess.

I know about the wolflike, shepherd, and pointing dog exercise requirements, but a girl can dream, can't she? With English Setters in particular (who do point), I know the older dogs at least are calm and sweet natured indoors, and some need less exercise than others. I think exercise requirement is part breed trait, part individual, just like every trait, so I figure it can't hurt to keep an eye open.

As for grooming, I'm fine with that-- I just don't want a dog whose coat is going to become painfully matted if I skip a few days. If the dog needs to be groomed twice a week or so, for example, I'm alright with that. I just don't think I could handle the grooming of, say, an Afghan hound. (Come to think of it, how much grooming do Afghans in puppy clips require? It can't possibly be as much as the show dogs.)

And just an FYI, I would never bathe a dog daily. Human hair even is better off not being constantly bathed, so unless we're talking about an exceedingly oily coat here, it strikes me as a very bad idea. Or maybe that's just my hair...

HollowHaven, in that case, what do dogs like Rottweilers and German Shepherds require? I know they aren't for first time owners and need someone who's firm and consistent, right? Maybe I've misinterpreted what that means, so what DO they need? Because I don't really like the idea of having to actively try to dominate my pets. I'm willing to work with them, but I don't know how much work is required here.

I honestly would rather adopt a retired show dog than a rescue in most cases... I really like the idea of having a dog who's already been well socialized and screened for potential health issues.

Kayota, I've heard that before about greyhounds in particular, but I've also heard that they need four walks a day then. I don't know what exactly that entails, but it sounds excessive? I'm assuming walks doesn't equal potty breaks.

kcomstoc, I almost replied to you earlier, but it turned out ridiculously long, so I'm going to edit it first


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Have you considered getting a cat instead?

Otherwise I would say just go to the shelter and try to find an older short haired dog maybe around 30-35lb with a lower energy level and the personality and looks to suit you.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

I have, and I'm considering both right now.

And that's a possibility, but what I'm trying to figure out is what to get if I do get a purebred.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

maybe this is me, but your requirements kind of fit with what I know about the Markiesje... but since that's a rare breed and it's probably not available to you. How about a Kooikerhondje? 

Kooikerhondjes are medium sized, small enough for apartments, don't need extreme grooming and their fur is really nice to the touch. They do need some exercise, but what dog doesn't? In general, I've seen them being quite mellow and amenable. They are not pointing dogs, but used to lure ducks, which means it won't be chasing birds around (though you may have to train this). They work very well with positive reinforcement training. In terms of health, they do have a couple of issues but nothing too big. They are loving and cuddly but not "Velcro dogs" that needs you there 24-7.

To be honest I'm probably biased because I absolutely love Kooikerhondjes. I'm a big fan of Dutch breeds.


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## LadyB (Mar 7, 2013)

What about a Bassett? With the possible drooling exception, they might be a good fit. Though perhaps you'd consider them in the "large" category.... When they bark it is seriously noisy, which is something to consider with apartments, but I think well-trained and content Bassetts are generally pretty quiet. 

Just a note: "every other game," is going to require some slobbery toys. My advice to you is to just embrace the slobber. If your dog is at all interested in toys, it's going to happen. The benefits far outweigh the ick factor. Oh, and if you get a ball launcher both of your issues with fetch are solved.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> >.> Not all dogs require daily grooming.... I don't groom Syd every day and I'd say she's a pretty clean dog!
> 
> But in general, you are probably wanting a dog that doesn't exist if you want every single trait you listed to be met...


Well, maybe I'm weird then because mine get groomed daily (brushing at minimum)




> HollowHaven, in that case, what do dogs like Rottweilers and German Shepherds require? I know they aren't for first time owners and need someone who's firm and consistent, right? Maybe I've misinterpreted what that means, so what DO they need? Because I don't really like the idea of having to actively try to dominate my pets. I'm willing to work with them, but I don't know how much work is required here.


A firm hand means more of, you're a bit stricter with them, you know what you're doing, you let them get away with less then most people would, consistent, like you said. I'm not sure how firm of a hand those particular breeds need, however, considering they're both very willing, eager to please dogs. I think a MinPin would need a firmer hand. Lol

But as for getting a retired show dog, that's totally possible. Many breeders will sometimes sell their retired dogs. CptJack's rat terrier is one.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Callin, I looked them up and they're both gorgeous dogs, but I don't know if there are any breeders in Washington/Oregon! I can't find any online...

I considered bassets, but apparently they don't just drool, they drool bucket loads... Maybe I'm wrong about that; it's just the general impression that I got.

EDIT: Apparently it's possible to get a "dry mouthed" basset!

There's also a thread somewhere dedicated specifically to "getting rid of the hound smell", though... I don't know if that's bad, like the doggy smell?

I don't mind other games involving dog slobber like tug of war, but tennis balls seem to get soaked very quickly. Maybe it depends on the dog? Come to think of it, though, Frisbee could work. Everyone can throw a frisbee far enough, right? And they don't get as slobber soaked, being plastic. I can't make them come back anyway, so that's not a problem.

That said, I'd rather not have toys dropped in my lap. I'd rather the dog just plant his butt in my lap instead 

Hmm... Don't you still need to pick the toys up to use a launcher? I know there are automatic launchers, but I can't help but think that isn't fulfilling the dog's psychological needs as well... If a dog breed needs to play that badly, aren't they better off playing with their humans :? Maybe I'm off the mark here, but...

Admittedly fetch isn't my favorite game for other reasons (the dogs I've played with never wanted to drop it XD)

Thanks HollowHeaven! I don't know if I could do that, to be honest... I think with those breeds it's more an issue of them becoming protectively over-aggressive, or something along those lines? I don't really know if I'd be able to be that firm with them. Possibly an already trained retired show dog could be doable, but I don't think they would be ideal breeds for multiple reasons.


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## LadyB (Mar 7, 2013)

My brother has had two Bassetts (both from breed rescues) and neither drooled buckets. One of them got somewhat drooly if you went on a longish walk. The other—never saw it drool. One of them was noticeably, hilariously, smelly, the other not at all. Individuals are going to have individual characteristics in addition to generalized breed tendencies. I think you'd be better off focusing on the characteristics you want and then having three (maybe four) real, actual deal breakers. If everything on that long list of stuff you don't want is of the same priority and importance to you, then I'll join the "get a cat" chorus.

You train the fetch behavior you want. Where to drop the ball, when to drop it, when to stop playing. You train the play behavior you want. If dropping a toy in your lap is not acceptable, then you train the dog not to do that. I have trained my dog to play in a specific way and she knows that in order to get what she wants (playing) she has to behave or else I get up and go away. 

The tennis ball launchers that I've used, you can just slap it over the ball while it's still on the ground. It picks up the ball, and you throw it. You do not have to touch the ball, ever. You walk home with the ball in the launcher, you put it away, you take it out again for the next session.


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## LadyB (Mar 7, 2013)

What about a poodle? Get it puppy clipped every month. No drooling or smell, moderate exercise requirements...


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

I think that drooling, high energy indoors (I want a mellow dog...), smell, and lack of leeway in the grooming department are the main deal breakers, in that case. However, I would also feel more comfortable with a dog suited to first time owners. I also can't always provide a fenced yard-- it just isn't possible.

Heat tolerance is secondary since they'll be an indoor dog. However, I may wind up at some point moving to somewhere without air conditioning, and that does need to be kept in mind.

Cat friendliness is less important. If a breed isn't cat friendly, I can just look for an individual who is.

I can't provide tons of exercise. I'm not a jogger or anything like that. Exercise required can vary between individuals, but a breed that needs two hours a day still wouldn't be a good match.

I would prefer a dog who isn't naturally "chunky" and/or bulldog-y looking, though.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Honestly, it sounds like we dislike a lot of the same dog traits. I can't stand doggy smell, I didn't want a hyper dog, I didn't want a drooly or snorty dog, I didn't want a dog who needed to GO constantly, because we're not like that, and it would be bad for all parties involved... I didn't want to deal with long hair or grooming (like, taking the dog to the groomer). I decided on a dachshund, and found a dachshund mix at the local shelter (I don't believe in purchasing animals), and he really fits the bill! He only smells when he needs a bath, and he only needs a bath every couple of months (unless he's been rolling in things... like recently he found a dead frog at the park and man that was a BAD drive home!!). He's got energy and is playful, but he isn't hyper. He DOES drool if you're sitting on the couch eating, and he sits next to you and watches you eat, and doesn't make any moves to your plate, but just stares intently and then slowly starts to drool. It's cute and pitiful because you can see in his eyes how hard he's trying to be good and not nab your food! He doesn't just drool all the time though. He's only a year and a half, but he's been healthy, doxies have a long life span. I don't know what you consider heat tolerant. When it's hot, he'll walk into the room, look at me, let out a big sigh, and lay down on his side. He doesn't LIKE the heat (or the cold, or the rain), but it doesn't affect his health in any way that I can tell. He just isn't going to go on a long walk when it's hot. He walks from shady spot to shady spot and stretches out so his belly can rest in the cool grass.  Personally, I don't like the heat either, so this doesn't bother me. 

Really, you may be looking for an individual dog rather than a breed of dog. Many of Hamilton's traits aren't "typical" doxie, like he housebroke easily (speaking of, I've heard Chins are really hard to housebreak), and doesn't bark a ton. I attribute this to whatever mix he is, and just his temperament. Since you don't want a dog immediately, I'd start contacting rescues and visiting shelters and seeing what's out there!


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm thinking you might want to look into cats, personally. There are a lot of things on your no list that seem to cancel out any breed. I'm also not sure what you mean by you don't want a dog that smells. All dogs smell. Cats too. And people. A lot of active dogs smell MORE, I guess, since they're out rolling in the grass and playing. My Newf smells differently than my poodle did, but I wouldn't call either of them bad. And if you give a dog a good supply of bones, they don't even have bad doggy breath.

A poodle might not be a bad idea, though. They don't drool, don't shed... the previous poster mentioned puppy cuts, which is what we kept our poodle in. I think he went to the groomer every 6-8 weeks, but I'm pretty sure my mum brushed him only a few times in between. They're smart and pretty easy to train. Our poodle was a mini and I think pretty close to that "quiet affection" you're looking for, though he jumped up a lot when someone first came in the house (we didn't really train him not to). 

I'm pretty sure in terms of poodles the standard poodle is more mellow than the mini which is more mellow than the toy, but other poodle people can correct me if I'm wrong.


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## melundie (Aug 2, 2011)

Um. So you want a dog that has little to no exercise requirements, little to no grooming requirements, makes almost no noise, is cuddly and "emphatic" yet doesn't mind being left alone all day _and_ doesn't drool? Is this an f***ing joke? 

Just a little side-note: no dogs require a "dominant" owner. Consistency? YES, absolutely. "Dominance" is often misunderstood...besides, you're the one with opposable thumbs. 

Have you thought about getting a stuffed animal?


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

puppycat said:


> Callin, I looked them up and they're both gorgeous dogs, but I don't know if there are any breeders in Washington/Oregon! I can't find any online...


Ah, yeah, most Kooikerhond breeders are in the other side of the country for you. I'm just so used to seeing them everywhere here that I forget they are actually rare in the US. Markiesjes, as far as I know are only truly found in Holland, but some of the nearby countries get their share of Markiesje mutts.

As for smell, I guess all animals smell. That said, there are things you can do to lessen the smell, like brushing their teeth and fur daily and giving them good quality food -a friend of mine swears by raw food as a miracle food that makes her dogs not smell, but I would not know if this is true or not since her house always smells of rats. 

It's true that certain dogs smell a bit more than others, but usually dogs that don't smell as much have really high grooming requirements. My Maltese, for example doesn't smell much (her fur doesn't smell much, her breath could kill, tho) but she needs extensive combing every single time after she goes out of the door or else she'll have huge mats. 

Although all dogs slobber, I guess some have more slobber than others. I know for example that some Golden Retriever owners need to have tissues at hand to wipe their dog's mouth after a day of play in the park. I think slobber is not as bad as long as you get used to it... and get used to wearing slippers at home to avoid the bare foot- slobbery bully stick encounter first thing in the morning (that said, my dog likes a hint of human foot aroma to her chew toys and used to hide her half chewed toys in our shoes... ugh!). --- Would you consider rubber balls instead of tennis balls, though? Since you say that a Frisbee would be alright since it's plastic. 

As far as having toys brought to your lap or the dog wanting to drop the toy or not, I think it's just a matter of teaching your dog the rules of the game. It's mostly just training. That said, my dog does not play fetch. You can throw anything you want... she'll just look at you like saying "what did you do _that_ for? Crazy humans...", so I don't have much experience with this particular activity.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

melundie said:


> Um. So you want a dog that has little to no exercise requirements, little to no grooming requirements, makes almost no noise, is cuddly and "emphatic" yet doesn't mind being left alone all day _and_ doesn't drool? Is this an f***ing joke?
> 
> Just a little side-note: no dogs require a "dominant" owner. Consistency? YES, absolutely. "Dominance" is often misunderstood...besides, you're the one with opposable thumbs.
> 
> Have you thought about getting a stuffed animal?


WTF... No, I want a dog who needs thirty minutes or less of daily exercise (preferably less) and doesn't have excessive and unforgiving grooming requirements.

I'm not sure where people got the idea that I don't want a dog that barks at all. I don't mind some barking, say, when strangers come to the door. If that barking is enough to keep me up all night or get me kicked out of an apartment, then it's too much. I just don't want a dog who barks at shadows and falling leaves, etc.

And there are dogs out there who do just fine on their own left alone for several hours.

But seeing as all the dogs in your sig are _herders_... *cough*

Herding breeds are all very high maintanence dogs who need a lot of attention, mental stimulation, and exercise. I get the impression that might be coloring your viewpoint somewhat, if that's what you're used to in a dog.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

A dog on a good diet shouldn't smell TOO much (I mean, if the dog gets wet or rolls in something obviously they will smell lol).

Could I suggest a shihtzu? Or how about a maltese? Those would be easy to deal with -- the only thing would be that you would have to take them in for groomings (you could keep their hair short so you don't have to brush them)


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## melundie (Aug 2, 2011)

puppycat said:


> But seeing as all the dogs in your sig are _herders_... *cough*


BAHAHAHA. No denying we have very different "must haves" when it comes to our dog of choice. Believe me when I say that I don't recommend my breed to most people and I certainly wouldn't recommend one to you. In fact, when people say, "I want a BC" my knee-jerk reaction is, "no you don't." However, it seems that your "don't want" list includes nearly everything that makes a dog a dog. I agree with a few others in saying that cat would probably be a better fit.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

So a lot of people are recommending poodles... They seem very common, though I suppose there's nothing wrong with that...

But I'm a bit concerned about the mental stimulation they require? Don't they need a lot? They supposedly have coarse coats, too, if they're bred properly (it's in the AKC standard), but maybe I'm wrong about how coarse said coats actually are (I'm probably thinking of somewhere between sponge and steel wool XD)

But don't a lot of sighthounds have these traits? I haven't heard back about their exercise requirements re no fenced yard, though... Been thinking of a greyhound, saluki or silken windhound? I know that greyhounds at least are pretty much without doggy odor.

I think I _am_ looking for an individual dog, but there are probably some breeds who are more suitable than others, and all shelter dogs seem to have breeds in their ancestry (I will admit that some purebred dogs are exceedingly striking...)

The closest shelter has very little selection most of the time, though, so I don't see myself visiting the ones I'm likely to adopt from constantly...

I love longhair mini dacs too! But I'm a bit worried about their backs... For some reason is seems like the minis might be a little better off in that regard, being lighter, but that's just a complete guess.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Christ people. No amount of thought into what people might want in a dog is satisfying, is it? It's just brainstorming. 



Hambonez said:


> Really, you may be looking for an individual dog rather than a breed of dog. Many of Hamilton's traits aren't "typical" doxie, like he housebroke easily (speaking of, I've heard Chins are really hard to housebreak), and doesn't bark a ton. I attribute this to whatever mix he is, and just his temperament. Since you don't want a dog immediately, I'd start contacting rescues and visiting shelters and seeing what's out there!


I agree with this. Consider looking for a foster-based rescue in your area, the fosters should have a good idea of the day to day habits and traits of the dogs in their care. Otherwise, consider going to a dog show in your area and just look at/meet a lot of different breeds, it may help you narrow it down.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

You might look into breeds that were meant for lap dogs, not working dogs. Any working dog is going to want... well... to work. 

The closest shelter to me mostly has pits... which I like fine, but isn't the right breed for us. We got our dog at a shelter a little over an hour away. Worth the drive!  Personally, I like standard dachshunds better than the minis. The minis in Hamilton's play group are just more hyper and barky than the standards, and I feel like when they mini stuff down too much, they get kind of weird looking at times (probably the result of poor/over breeding). There are some cute and sweet minis, but I've found overall the tweenies/standards are more even keeled. 

Everyone's right that all animals (and people!) have a smell, but I think we've all encountered especially stinky dogs, be it due to diet or grooming or just individual characteristic, and some people are bothered by that more than others. My cats all have smells. One of them still smells like kitten behind his ears  One smells less good... and occasionally needs a bath to remedy that. If you put your nose on my dog and sniff, he smells like a dog, but you have to make an effort to smell him to notice that.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I honestly don't understand why people are so hung up on the smell thing. Different breeds absolutely have different degrees of natural body odor. I used to have a Chessie who had a lot of natural coat oils and it was fine in the summer when she was swimming a lot (which, after all, is what they were there for) but in the winter she could get pretty ripe if she wasn't bathed very regularly. None of my current dogs have any real noticeable odor unless they are wet. A lot of scent hounds have a strong body odor.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Good plan! I'm hoping to go to a coursing trial this month actually, and maybe a conformation show! Rescues are sort of intimidating, though... I've heard horror stories about how difficult they are. Obviously not all rescues are like that, but still...

I do think I'm still leaning towards a cat or a sighthound, though, or an older English Setter (I met them at a show and I was just sort of charmed by them... The guy I talked to days the one he owned needs something like a thirty minute walk so his dog was probably at the low end of the exercise spectrum? and they are calm and sweet natured dogs indoors, not to mention beautiful. I know they're probably not ideal, though, or rather I'm not ideal). But I think the family dogs we've had just weren't very good matches for my personality, so I may be surprised once I meet a few! Granted I am partial to cats, but I feel like maybe I'm missing out. That could just be glorification of dogs, though...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I do think a retired Greyhound sounds like a good idea for you. They tend to be not-so-good with cats but the rescues screen them for their cat interactions and I'm sure you could find one that isn't as prone to chasing/catching. They don't smell and aren't slobbery, fairly cat-like really. An older one won't need a lot of exercise.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Retired racing greyhounds might be a good match for you. They need exercise, but they're not usually "busy" dogs in the house or yard so you can get by easily without a fenced yard if you walk regularly. I had one when I was in school and renting and didn't have a fenced yard until much later in her life. They are generally clean and quiet, although they do shed a lot in my experience.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

I couldn't agree more with sassafras and Hambonez. 

Since you are looking for an adult dog anyway, and you are not thinking of getting a dog right now, how about making a habit of visiting your local shelter? You could even volunteer for a couple of hours a week, if you want. That way you can more easily screen the local dogs until the right one comes along.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

puppycat said:


> Good plan! I'm hoping to go to a coursing trial this month actually, and maybe a conformation show! Rescues are sort of intimidating, though... I've heard horror stories about how difficult they are. Obviously not all rescues are like that, but still...
> 
> I do think I'm still leaning towards a cat or a sighthound, though, or an older English Setter (I met them at a show and I was just sort of charmed by them... The guy I talked to days the one he owned needs something like a thirty minute walk so his dog was probably at the low end of the exercise spectrum? and they are calm and sweet natured dogs indoors, not to mention beautiful. I know they're probably not ideal, though, or rather I'm not ideal). But I think the family dogs we've had just weren't very good matches for my personality, so I may be surprised once I meet a few! Granted I am partial to cats, but I feel like maybe I'm missing out. That could just be glorification of dogs, though...


I adore my cats, and would never live without a cat or two. Honestly, I did want a cat-like dog... like Cat v2.0 that could go out and be social with me! (Man I'm gonna get bashed for that) You can always start with a cat, see how much that affects your life, and get a dog further down the line. They are a lot more expensive and time consuming. I have 3 cats and got a dog, and it worked out (mostly) fine!


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

We had actually considered a retired greyhound. They're so beautiful. The place where we used to board our cats was also a greyhound rescue and the dogs there were very quiet and affectionate. I loved going in there just to spend a bit of time with them. But a greyhound was just too delicate for our lives AND we have the two cats. (I'm super clumsy and have already tripped over Annabel about a dozen times. She doesn't even notice. A greyhound definitely would have.)

I hear they're also pretty clean and somewhat cat-like, but that might just be talk. Or people were thinking of Italian greyhounds. Or were just talking out of their bums... Though I'm pretty sure the rescue near us, at any rate, won't adopt out without a fence.


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## sguilarte7 (Jun 27, 2013)

From what your saying you should just get a cat so that it doesn't need a fence, can pretty much take care of itself, cleans itself and just lays around and doesn't play fetch. Your list in unrealistic. The best thing you can get is a miniature greyhound or chihuahua but even then they are going to bark at times and want to play (including fetch) i honestly don't think you should even bother getting a dog if you're that high maintenance about what you feel a dog shouldn't have!!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Greyhounds aren't as delicate as you might think, and many are ok with cats (the group will be able to tell you which ones are die-hard chasers or not). They do have kind of thin skin and can get cuts easily, but they are otherwise pretty robust.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

@sassafras Really? Hmm. Might be a breed to look into later, probably after Annabel. Though I've become slightly obsessed with Newfs and giant breed dogs. I'm completely in love with the Great Dane pup down the street from us. Not QUITE as much as the Newfs, but it's up there.

I would NOT recommend a Newf to you, puppycat.  They're pretty much everything on your no list, but they are the sweetest and most loving, cuddly dogs I've ever met.

Not that I'm biased...

A greyhound definitely isn't as "common" as the poodle, though. It might be a breed worth looking into, if the others here agree. If there's a rescue near you, check them out! Any rescue, really. You might actually find yourself falling for a dog you never would have imagined otherwise, just meeting them and working with them. Have you considered volunteering at a shelter while you figure things out?


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

Hambonez said:


> I adore my cats, and would never live without a cat or two. Honestly, I did want a cat-like dog... like Cat v2.0 that could go out and be social with me! (Man I'm gonna get bashed for that) You can always start with a cat, see how much that affects your life, and get a dog further down the line. They are a lot more expensive and time consuming. I have 3 cats and got a dog, and it worked out (mostly) fine!


I have never had a cat. Just before they called us saying that there was a puppy for us (we expected they'd call in a couple more years), we had been thinking about getting one (my husband likes cats more than he likes dogs). Since it would be our first cat, I wanted a dog-like cat, I guess. So, I don't think you'd be bashed for liking cat-like dogs. When trying something new, I guess you kind of want something vaguely familiar to what you're used to to begin with.

I was really looking forward to adopting a cat from the shelter. They really seem to be cheaper and easier to keep. The only problem I really had was that you can't really walk a cat. Or take it along places. I would miss that, I think.


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## LadyB (Mar 7, 2013)

About the deal breaker thing: I might advise you to place a higher priority on the things you can't control (such as potential apartment restrictions in size and breed and no yard) as opposed to those you can (if your dog smells a little, just give it a bath and move on; you can install a window a/c if you live in a stifling climate; if your dog needs a lot of grooming and you don't want to do it, budget so you can take your dog to a groomer every week or two, etc..). 

I don't know what you mean about poodles being "common"—can you clarify? Are you looking for an unusual dog? IMHO, poodle coats are awesome and super-pettable. 

Greys could be good, too, unless you're planning on moving to a place with a high incidence of weight/size limits on dogs in apartments (standard poodles and Bassetts might be problematic on that front, too). One thing to consider about sighthounds is that you can never let them off leash unless they're in a totally safe, enclosed area, so whatever exercise the dog needs, chances are you'll be getting it, too!

I second the suggestion of investigating companion/lap dogs.

What about an adult Boston Terrier? I know you said you don't like bulldogs, but...


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

puppycat said:


> WTF... No, I want a dog who needs *thirty minutes or less* of daily exercise (preferably less) and doesn't have excessive and unforgiving grooming requirements.


Uh....what kind of exercise are we talking about here. Daily walks? Extra exercise on top of daily walks?

I kind of feel like even the most low key dogs should get at least 30-45 minutes of walking per day....


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

@Cailin - You can totally train cats to go for walks. My shelter cat growing up was trained to sit, stay, twirl in a little circle... She learned the sit from the dog, actually, and once I realized she was willing, taught her other things. The boy cat we have now loooooves going outside. Not so keen on the harness, but he'll go for walks with us. Small ones for now, but they get longer every time we go.

I really love cats and have always been much more of a cat person. But the more I started researching puppies and dog breeds, the more I became a cat AND dog person. I think I had been around too many little dogs growing up and I'm not as much a fan of smaller dogs. Just a personal preference, nothing wrong with small dogs! Once I started getting around larger dogs, volunteering and meeting other people who had big dogs, I was all in. Small cats, big dogs. That's how I roll.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

Effisia said:


> @sassafras Really? Hmm. Might be a breed to look into later, probably after Annabel. Though I've become slightly obsessed with Newfs and giant breed dogs. I'm completely in love with the Great Dane pup down the street from us. Not QUITE as much as the Newfs, but it's up there.
> 
> I would NOT recommend a Newf to you, puppycat.  They're pretty much everything on your no list, but they are the sweetest and most loving, cuddly dogs I've ever met.
> 
> ...


Lol! It seems you and I are very similar. I think my all-time favorite breed of dogs is the Newf. Newfies are so incredibly adorable! I can see myself going on the bike and taking him to the beach every day. Such a huge ball of lovely fluff! If only my husband didn't have it vetoed... It's kind of hard working around my husband's list of "banned animals".


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## sguilarte7 (Jun 27, 2013)

I think you should stay away from big breeds. Large breeds or giant breeds need exercise, I have a German Shepherd mix and even as a puppy she is always crazy so i saw your mention earlier of getting maybe a German Shepherd but i would stay away from that.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

Effisia said:


> @Cailin - You can totally train cats to go for walks. My shelter cat growing up was trained to sit, stay, twirl in a little circle... She learned the sit from the dog, actually, and once I realized she was willing, taught her other things. The boy cat we have now loooooves going outside. Not so keen on the harness, but he'll go for walks with us. Small ones for now, but they get longer every time we go.
> 
> I really love cats and have always been much more of a cat person. But the more I started researching puppies and dog breeds, the more I became a cat AND dog person. I think I had been around too many little dogs growing up and I'm not as much a fan of smaller dogs. Just a personal preference, nothing wrong with small dogs! Once I started getting around larger dogs, volunteering and meeting other people who had big dogs, I was all in. Small cats, big dogs. That's how I roll.


I generally like big dogs better than small dogs, though small dogs don't come without their advantages! When we were going to get Reina, we had wanted a big black male dog and ended up with a small white female ball of fluff. My family hates cats, so that's partly why. I like big dogs better partly because the first dogs I fell in love with were Mucuchies, which are quite big. After Reina, though, I've learned to like small dogs too (though I still dislike the way their barks sound so high pitch). To be honest, I would have gone for a bigger dog this time around too, but my husband set a rule of "no birds, no rodents, no large or medium sized dogs, no chihuahuas, no Papillons, no terriers, no male pets, no adult pets (as in rescued/from shelters)"... so I'm quite restricted.

Edit: @sguilarte7 : D'awwwwww! - and yes I agree.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Cailin said:


> I have never had a cat. Just before they called us saying that there was a puppy for us (we expected they'd call in a couple more years), we had been thinking about getting one (my husband likes cats more than he likes dogs). Since it would be our first cat, I wanted a dog-like cat, I guess. So, I don't think you'd be bashed for liking cat-like dogs. When trying something new, I guess you kind of want something vaguely familiar to what you're used to to begin with.
> 
> I was really looking forward to adopting a cat from the shelter. They really seem to be cheaper and easier to keep. The only problem I really had was that you can't really walk a cat. Or take it along places. I would miss that, I think.


(Will respond to others later; I just noticed this and wanted to make a suggestion.)

Are you and your husband active? What does he like in a cat? If you would want to play a lot and take them on walks, a Bengal or Abyssinian/Somali could be a good idea, or one of the Oriental breeds (note that Bengals and the Oriental breeds are considered first time cats-- Bengals especially-- but since you've already raised dogs and your husband probably has some experience with cats I think you'll do okay). There are actually a lot of cat breeds that take well to leash training. The Manx is another breed that could work for you. Also, Pixie Bobs not only do well on leash, but they apparently like to travel as well (again, it depends partly on the cat and how they've been raised-- if you only take a cat to the vet, they'll learn to dread going places; also, they will probably respond negatively if you act nervous when getting them into the carrier). They're also supposed to be good for first time cat owners.

For teaching your cat to travel well, it can be done with some cats-- the key is baby steps. Here: http://www.petfinder.com/cats/living-with-your-cat/cat-travel-tips-cars/

Just add something about getting them used to going to new places.

Google doglike cats-- there's a number of lists and it might help you out. A lot of them like to play fetch, as well! Also, this list could be useful: http://www.catster.com/cat-breeds/five-cat-breeds-that-make-excellent-travel-companions

Really, if you're concerned about leash training, there are lots of options. Just keep in mind that not all cats in a certain breed will take to leash training and tell the breeder or rescue/shelter what you're looking for. Also, if you're willing to go this route, a retired breeding cat who's been successfully shown several times could be a good idea-- it generally means that the cat is used to travelling and being in rather chaotic situations (for a cat-- all those other cats!). Make sure that the person is reputable though, especially because I've read some nasty rumors about people drugging their cats and that really won't help you at all, in that case. I'm not saying that everybody does it or even that it's common (I'm actually not sure), but it's something to be aware of.

With a retired breeding cat, you're also getting the cat from someone who knows their entire history and personality-- you can ask if the cat has been leash trained, for example. That said, as long as you do your research and use positive reinforcement, and get a cat who will do well with leash training, you should be okay. It's just that last requirement that you need to be careful about.

You could also look for a non-purebred cat but if leash training, etc. concerns you a lot than it's a bit of a hit or miss in my opinion and depends on how important this stuff is to you.

The only thing is that cat breeds are less common than dog breeds and many cats are no breed at all (as opposed to a mix of breeds), so unless you choose an extremely common breed, you would probably need to buy from a breeder. You might be able to find Bengals at rescues a little more easily than some other breeds, though. Ditto with Siamese and Persians.

NOTE: I have neither travel trained nor leash trained my cats, as I have not seen the need to. However, I have researched it and plan to leash train my next cat if they take well to it.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Hambonez said:


> You might look into breeds that were meant for lap dogs, not working dogs. Any working dog is going to want... well... to work.
> 
> The closest shelter to me mostly has pits... which I like fine, but isn't the right breed for us. We got our dog at a shelter a little over an hour away. Worth the drive!  Personally, I like standard dachshunds better than the minis. The minis in Hamilton's play group are just more hyper and barky than the standards, and I feel like when they mini stuff down too much, they get kind of weird looking at times (probably the result of poor/over breeding). There are some cute and sweet minis, but I've found overall the tweenies/standards are more even keeled.
> 
> Everyone's right that all animals (and people!) have a smell, but I think we've all encountered especially stinky dogs, be it due to diet or grooming or just individual characteristic, and some people are bothered by that more than others. My cats all have smells. One of them still smells like kitten behind his ears  One smells less good... and occasionally needs a bath to remedy that. If you put your nose on my dog and sniff, he smells like a dog, but you have to make an effort to smell him to notice that.


My two boy cats smell like pine and forest since they're allowed outside-- it's awesome  Not so much the going outside, but unfortunately I'm not in charge of that. And yes, I am bothered by that (the smell). We used to have a dog who looked like a labradoodle, and he smelled awful :/ Our Aussie smells better, and he gets groomed MUCH less often than the labradoodle did, even though he still doesn't smell like roses (which is a bad expression because I hate the smell of strong smelling roses, but w/e) and it's still a little too much for me, so I don't think this is just a bathing thing. That said, the dogs I've met at shows have smelled a LOT better. (He's a bad match for my family, frankly, but my mom won't get rid of him-- and I can't spend lots of time with the poor guy because my verbally abusive brother goes after me whenever he finds me downstairs... I kinda wish he'd cause more trouble than extreme counter surfing so he could find a better home, sometimes. I've tried to be more active for him, but it's better said than done. Anyway, he's part of the reason I'm very determined to choose the right breed of dog or cat now that I get to be the primary one making this decision.)

Part of what I don't like about the doggy smell is the urge to wash my hands every time I touch a dog who smells bad. I went through this long period of time not even wanting to touch the family dogs because Arlo (the doodle) smelled so awful to me. My nose is just really sensitive...

As for lap dogs, I considered them, but from what I've read that group out of all the groups does the _least_ well when left alone for a long time, which concerns me. If you think about it, the companion breed dogs _have_ been bred for a job, even though it isn't something that we humans consider to be a job. Like working breed dogs, they need to fulfill that job in some way or another, or they won't be satisfied with life. And I would like a medium sized dog (or sighthound), though a lot of dogs that size seem to be gun dogs and some have lower exercise needs and are calmer than others.

I think that my attraction to giant breed dogs is part because they're couch potatoes, and part because my mom loves them and it's rubbed off on me somewhat, haha.



sassafras said:


> I honestly don't understand why people are so hung up on the smell thing. Different breeds absolutely have different degrees of natural body odor. I used to have a Chessie who had a lot of natural coat oils and it was fine in the summer when she was swimming a lot (which, after all, is what they were there for) but in the winter she could get pretty ripe if she wasn't bathed very regularly. None of my current dogs have any real noticeable odor unless they are wet. A lot of scent hounds have a strong body odor.


THANK YOU and EXACTLY. Like I said just now, my family used to have a very stinky dog, and I didn't even want to touch him most of the time. Both the dog and I would be miserable!

I've also heard that the long-eared breeds tend to smell bad, but from what I've read that has more to do with ear infections. I tend to clean my cats' ears and eyes sometimes just when I'm bored (it drives them nuts, but at least they're clean XP), so I don't know how big of an issue I should actually expect that to be.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

A dog that don't need owner to require a job???

Must be a dog that already comes with a huge inheritance...

Or...

Marry someone rich and won't need you to work already with a dog.

Hmmm...
Internet... 
And yeah... Humans are quite the "lost" species.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

hueyeats said:


> A dog that don't need owner to require a job???
> 
> Must be a dog that already comes with a huge inheritance...
> 
> ...


This makes very little sense to me...

But no, it's more like I'm worried about separation anxiety.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

About cats, now that we are getting a puppy, we'll have to wait a bit before we decide to get a cat as well. We had a talk about it after the call and decided that one animal is enough for now. We are not extremely athletic. We walk a lot and get around with our bikes but compared to my family who practices a different sport every evening, we can't compete. I do love going out when the weather allows it. 

In any case, thank you so much for the nice advice! I'll keep that in mind for when we actually go for it. 

I was thinking... Have you considered the Mexican hairless? (you can also have one with hair). They're medium sized, not too slobbery, not too smelly. They are independent enough... I'm not sure about how cuddly they are since the one I know hates me... But he does alright without a lot of exercise. He barks like a big dog too! I also have a friend with a Peruvian hairless with hair... She's a bit tinier and has more energy. I think those are great dogs... The only reason I wouldn't have one is that you have to work with their prey drive and they can be shy around strangers - which is a deal breaker for me. 

Edit : and they handle heat well and are easy to clean, no matter which type you get. The hair of the Mexican is a bit more coarse than the Peruvian. They can have a really nice and lush hair and their looks are great (though I much prefer the variation with hair). Usually the ones that are born with hair are a lot cheaper than the hairless ones too!


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

I haven't considered a Mexican Hairless, but I have considered a Chinese Crested! Cresteds are very pretty dogs if taken care of properly (if not...no way around it, they can get ugly XD they have a knack for winning the world's ugliest dog competition (which is an actual contest in case anybody didn't know))

I don't know too much about the breed, so I suppose I'm off to research for a bit!

I am a little bit concerned about them getting sunburned, though, since I'm hoping to live in Australia for a while and there's apparently less ozone there, plus it may be that constant sunscreen = breakouts. I'm sure there's a way around it, though.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

They don't drool that bad >.< only when really exerting alot of energy...after they drink. Other then that my husky drools more then Flash. Flash does drool buckets on long walks when he starts to get reeeeaaaly tired. and also when he is hot. I think it depends on the amount of jowls the basset has. but honestly not very bad. Amazing dogs. Amazing.  They sort of do whatever your doing. and also love to cuddle.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

puppycat said:


> I haven't considered a Mexican Hairless, but I have considered a Chinese Crested! Cresteds are very pretty dogs if taken care of properly (if not...no way around it, they can get ugly XD they have a knack for winning the world's ugliest dog competition (which is an actual contest in case anybody didn't know))
> 
> I don't know too much about the breed, so I suppose I'm off to research for a bit!
> 
> I am a little bit concerned about them getting sunburned, though, since I'm hoping to live in Australia for a while and there's apparently less ozone there, plus it may be that constant sunscreen = breakouts. I'm sure there's a way around it, though.


Ah, that's right. You could also go for a powder-puff Chinese Crested, or a Chinese crested mix. My friend who has the Peruvian has a Chinese Crested/Chihuahua mix. Yuna (that's the name of the dog) is a very quiet dog with short hair (so it's easy to groom). My friend puts sunscreen on her when we go to the beach, most of the times she'll have a tiny, thin shirt for her instead. It's an ugly dog in my opinion, but so loving it makes up for it. 

If you're getting a Xolo (Mexican hairless), I'd recommend you get one that has hair and that should fix the problem with the sunscreen and such. I know for a fact that the Xolo I know was kept as an inside/outside dog without any problems (probably because he has hair). I don't think he has any skin problems, since my mum has taken care of him a couple of times and she's never mentioned anything beyond how beautiful he is.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Cailin said:


> Ah, that's right. You could also go for a powder-puff Chinese Crested, or a Chinese crested mix. My friend who has the Peruvian has a Chinese Crested/Chihuahua mix. Yuna (that's the name of the dog) is a very quiet dog with short hair (so it's easy to groom). My friend puts sunscreen on her when we go to the beach, most of the times she'll have a tiny, thin shirt for her instead. It's an ugly dog in my opinion, but so loving it makes up for it.
> 
> If you're getting a Xolo (Mexican hairless), I'd recommend you get one that has hair and that should fix the problem with the sunscreen and such. I know for a fact that the Xolo I know was kept as an inside/outside dog without any problems (probably because he has hair). I don't think he has any skin problems, since my mum has taken care of him a couple of times and she's never mentioned anything beyond how beautiful he is.


Personally, I think that the hairless Chinese Cresteds are very beautiful. But hairless crested mixes aren't as attractive...

Xolos are apparently not great for "first time dog owners". What does that _mean_, exactly? I mean, I'm sure that it's technically possible for some people to raise "difficult" dogs without any problems... And I've lived with dogs since I was young, but I don't consider myself experienced. So what does it actually mean?

That said, do you think I should give myself a bit of extra slack since I'm only looking for an adult dog who's already been fully trained and socialized? Still, I don't know that I can handle a primitive breed. I could probably handle a dog who just wasn't very owner/command oriented because of my experience with cats, but I don't think experience with one type of pet transfers fully over to another...?


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## Milo114 (Jul 2, 2013)

Sounds like you want a cat


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Milo114 said:


> Sounds like you want a cat


I haven't decided yet. I don't know for sure that I need an emotional support animal, so I'd like to hold off on the decision until I know exactly what it is that I need. A cat might work, and a dog might also work better for me 

I do know cats better, though, hence my concern about training...


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

puppycat said:


> I haven't decided yet. I don't know for sure that I need an emotional support animal, so I'd like to hold off on the decision until I know exactly what it is that I need. A cat might work, and a dog might also work better for me
> 
> I do know cats better, though, hence my concern about training...


My cats and my dog provide emotional support in different ways. Until we got the dog, the cats always would greet me when I came home and follow me around the house. They don't really do it now because there's an overexuberant dog putting on a show for me when I walk through the door, and they don't want to be part of his nuttiness. They've always been very in tune to when I'm upset, and do a lot of lap sitting, and snuggling. I had a cat growing up that absolutely would not leave my bed for anything if I was sick in bed, unless I got up with her. She'd wait to eat or use the box until I got up for something. My cats are engaging and funny, they come when they're called, and love to play and get treats. I even trained one of my cats to shake hands and wave. The dog is probably more motivating than the cats? He makes me go out and walk around and talk to people when I really just want to not leave the house or see anyone. He is never far away, and he loves to sit on my lap and cuddle. He absolutely cannot stand it when anyone is crying and gets right up and licks and licks their face. At least one of my cats will come and give kisses if you're crying too. The big difference is the level of demand the dog puts on me vs. the cats. If I want to spend the entire day in bed, the cats are totally down with that. The dog is not. I guess I could ignore him, but then I'd be miserable, because he'd be miserable, and when he's miserable he wrecks havok around the house. When the cats are miserable they hide under a bed until dinner time. I have to plan my days around the dog's needs to an extent, which can be an added stressor, whereas the cats are fine alone all day. 

I hope that gives you some idea of the types of supports and strains of the two species!


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

puppycat said:


> Kayota, I've heard that before about greyhounds in particular, but I've also heard that they need four walks a day then. I don't know what exactly that entails, but it sounds excessive? I'm assuming walks doesn't equal potty breaks.


I have owned and rescued greyhounds for years. They are for the most part lazy in the house and active outside. I would walk mine 30 mins in the morning before I went to work and then an 30 mins to an hour at night. I also took them to parks and hiking with me from time to time. They did fine with that all of that. Some greyhounds are great with cats and the rescues will be able to find the perfect one for you.  I had 5 at one time that would snuggle with my cats.

Just keep in mind that every dog no matter what the size or breed will need to be walked everyday, and trained everyday. They need mental and physical stimulation to thrive. A dog that is not exercised correctly will get board and destructive, and some can get aggressive. As for training I would suggest reading Ian dunbar books, and watching Kikopup on youtube.

_Suggestions to look into:_
Maybe a Toy or Miniature Poodle? Get it groomed every 6 weeks and to keep the nails trimmed, hair cut short, etc. 
How about a Chinese crested? Just a little fur. Weekly to bi-weekly bathing with a good shampoo would keep the dog nice and clean. (you can always pay a groomer to do it, and a bath will not cost you much.)
Italian Greyhound. Small, clean, can be cat friendly, sweet, loving little dogs. They are very cat like in my experience, except that they love to cuddle.


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

I vote for a short haired Chihuahua. They're small, don't need to groom them every day, they play in small spaces, so you would not have to do exercise with them and you can take them everywhere almost. I have 4 and a Mini Pin.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

puppycat said:


> Personally, I think that the hairless Chinese Cresteds are very beautiful. But hairless crested mixes aren't as attractive...
> 
> Xolos are apparently not great for "first time dog owners". What does that _mean_, exactly? I mean, I'm sure that it's technically possible for some people to raise "difficult" dogs without any problems... And I've lived with dogs since I was young, but I don't consider myself experienced. So what does it actually mean?
> 
> That said, do you think I should give myself a bit of extra slack since I'm only looking for an adult dog who's already been fully trained and socialized? Still, I don't know that I can handle a primitive breed. I could probably handle a dog who just wasn't very owner/command oriented because of my experience with cats, but I don't think experience with one type of pet transfers fully over to another...?


I don't mind hairless animals myself, but they do take some extra care when it comes sunny and cold weather... so in that sense they are demanding. 

I would imagine that for a first time owner of a puppy, a Xolo might mean a lot of socialization, since they are so naturally shy. They might be a bit stubborn as well, but since you're going for an adult dog, I wouldn't worry too much about that. 

When it comes to experience with one sort of animal transferring to another... well, of course body language is different. To this day, I have a really hard time reading cat body language, whereas my husband can immediately tell what the cat is feeling or how to approach a cat so that it doesn't feel threatened. Then again, I think that the building blocks for a good relationship with an animal are all the same. 

I agree with Hambonez and Damon's Mom that dogs provide a different kind of emotional support. When I'm feeling down, I do not expect my dog to come cuddle with me (I've only known her to have done that once- once in twelve years!). It's more like, "C'mon, get up, let's walk" which can be annoying, but once you're both out and she's is being her goofy self, you get to cheer up.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Hambonez said:


> I hope that gives you some idea of the types of supports and strains of the two species!


That does help a lot; thank you! It's really good to see the different issues in perspective. I think that with cats, it's a little bit more of a gamble, but I also think that that may be because purebred/pedigreed cats aren't as popular as purebred dogs and can be harder to find at a shelter.



Damon'sMom said:


> I have owned and rescued greyhounds for years. They are for the most part lazy in the house and active outside. I would walk mine 30 mins in the morning before I went to work and then an 30 mins to an hour at night. I also took them to parks and hiking with me from time to time. They did fine with that all of that. Some greyhounds are great with cats and the rescues will be able to find the perfect one for you.  I had 5 at one time that would snuggle with my cats.
> 
> Just keep in mind that every dog no matter what the size or breed will need to be walked everyday, and trained everyday. They need mental and physical stimulation to thrive. A dog that is not exercised correctly will get board and destructive, and some can get aggressive. As for training I would suggest reading Ian dunbar books, and watching Kikopup on youtube.
> 
> ...


Oh! Well, that's a lot more reasonable. For some reason I keep thinking of a walk as being thirty minutes long, which led me to the conclusion that a couch potato dog needs two hours of exercise a day, haha.

I love sighthounds a lot, so I think I'd be willing to give them that much. I would need to make sure that I could make myself take a half hour walk twice a day before even getting the dog, but I think that would be the same regardless.

Do you mean training as in repeating tricks, or learning new ones? I think you might run out eventually!

Those three are all great dogs that I'm considering, but... Ah, maybe I should make a different thread for this-- there's a lot of questions! Mostly about IG bloodlines and their varying bone density. Does anyone know which bloodlines have denser bones and how big of a difference it makes?

Right now, I'm under the impression that unless I child proof to the point of insanity, I'm going to be paying for broken wrist bones twice yearly...

(btw, I've met/had some very cuddly cats-- it does have to be on their terms, though)



Glo said:


> I vote for a short haired Chihuahua. They're small, don't need to groom them every day, they play in small spaces, so you would not have to do exercise with them and you can take them everywhere almost. I have 4 and a Mini Pin.


Yup! Plus they're relatively healthy (or at least not horribly sickly) so that's nice, too! I've actually considered them for those reasons.



Cailin said:


> I don't mind hairless animals myself, but they do take some extra care when it comes sunny and cold weather... so in that sense they are demanding.
> 
> I would imagine that for a first time owner of a puppy, a Xolo might mean a lot of socialization, since they are so naturally shy. They might be a bit stubborn as well, but since you're going for an adult dog, I wouldn't worry too much about that.
> 
> ...


You don't think that a "difficult" dog who's already trained could pose a problem? I think it would be easier than a puppy, but they still need consistency even more than other breeds, right? It seems to me that there's a bit less margin for error.

On the other hand, I read that the medium Xolos were originally bred to be protection dogs-- as a relatively inexperienced dog owner and a woman who will eventually be living on her own, that could be either a very good or a very bad thing. Actually, I think that was part of what drew me to the giant breeds-- they're calmer in general than the large (but not giant) dogs and many are couch potatoes or close, not all of them are subject to breed specific legislation, and they're a good deterrent. I was looking at Great Pyrenees at one point, but unfortunately they don't seem like they would be very happy in the heat or in a small apartment.

I'm also interested in Azawakhs for that same reason, though I believe they need more exercise than greyhounds (than again, so do Salukis and some others, being endurance runners rather than sprinters). Azawakhs belong to the sighthound group based on body type, but unlike the others are actually used for protection. Unfortunately, I haven't found very much info on them besides that.

Anyway, if I get an already-socialized Xolo (I remember that a rescue group at the last dog show I went to had one who was very nice), it could be a very good thing, but I need to figure out what risks there would still be.

They apparently have a "herding dog mentality", though? Assuming that means they need a job? I don't know if I could really provide that... Is it as severe as with, say, an actual herding dog?

NOTE: I am NOT planning on getting a dog and abusing it or trying to train it to attack people. I would never do that. I just think that it would be nice to know that, if I decide to walk around down an alley or at night, I have a lower chance of being physically assaulted and/or my dog might protect me if I am. I wish this wasn't the sort of world we live in, but sadly humanity has a long way to go.

I think I would seek out a more cuddly individual in my case, but that's just me~ And like I said, it might change.

I don't mind the extra care too much, but all the places I plan to move would basically necessitate that the dog wore sunscreen every day. I'm really rather concerned about acne, if anything XD


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

puppycat said:


> That does help a lot; thank you! It's really good to see the different issues in perspective. I think that with cats, it's a little bit more of a gamble, but I also think that that may be because purebred/pedigreed cats aren't as popular as purebred dogs and can be harder to find at a shelter.


Is there a reason you feel you would need a purebred cat? My three cats -- the oldest was from a feral colonie in a co-worker's back yard when I worked at a vet. The second was also a vet reject - someone left him in a box with his siblings in another co-worker's yard, and he kept getting adopted out and bounced back so I ended up keeping him. The third we found on the street outside of our apartment, and the shelters were full and wouldn't take him and I couldn't put him back out again. If you work with a rescue, they should be able to find a cat with a personality that you're looking for! It's a gamble if you get a kitten (same as puppies!), but if you're open to an adult cat, there are cat rescue places who really know their animals and would be more than happy to help you find the perfect match!


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Hambonez said:


> Is there a reason you feel you would need a purebred cat? My three cats -- the oldest was from a feral colonie in a co-worker's back yard when I worked at a vet. The second was also a vet reject - someone left him in a box with his siblings in another co-worker's yard, and he kept getting adopted out and bounced back so I ended up keeping him. The third we found on the street outside of our apartment, and the shelters were full and wouldn't take him and I couldn't put him back out again. If you work with a rescue, they should be able to find a cat with a personality that you're looking for! It's a gamble if you get a kitten (same as puppies!), but if you're open to an adult cat, there are cat rescue places who really know their animals and would be more than happy to help you find the perfect match!


*sigh* I have wanted a pedigreed cat for YEARS now and it's on my bucket list. It only makes sense to get one when I'm going to be looking for a specific personality.

Also, I'm still deeply hurt by the loss of my first cat, who I considered my sister. This time around, I want a cat who's been health-tested for anything they might get, and whose health is at least somewhat predictable. I know things happen, but it isn't possible to test a shelter cat for every single thing that they MIGHT have somewhere down the line that's influenced by genetics.

It's also, well, why do some people want a dog of a certain breed? The only difference from dogs is that it isn't as easy to find a purebred cat at a shelter because they're much less common in general, especially if you want a stunning and guaranteed healthy example of the breed (it's not like I can just go around health testing every purebred I come across-- that would get pretty ridiculous pretty quickly. Btw a cat's breed is technically determined by pedigree rather than bloodline, which is a bit silly IMO and just a bit of trivia, but that's how it is.)

And then you've got shelters and rescues who slap the "Siamese" label on every pointed cat they come across, and PETFINDER... (seriously search a cat breed with petfinder... I'm pretty sure the people who label them have a hard time recognizing what a purebred cat actually IS...):frusty:

And I would prefer a kitten, actually. It's part of the healing process, and so far I bond differently with kittens than I do with cats.

Finally: Why tf do I need a reason? I like purebred cats and I've never had one before. People need to get over themselves. :focus:

EDIT: Also, no matter how you look at it, purebred cats are better socialized if they're from a good breeder. Do you know why?

A cat's window for new things is earlier than a dog's; approximately 6-8 weeks is the time to get them accustomed to people. Well bred cats are handled since birth.

Cats do best if allowed to stay with their parents and siblings for the first 12 weeks. A good breeder won't let their kittens go before this time. It isn't unheard of for them to be kept sixteen weeks.

Shelters, by putting kittens up for adoption at 8 weeks of age, manage to miss BOTH milestones.

Personally, I'm excited to see how a pedigreed kitten will turn out.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Hambonez, sorry for snapping at you... But it gets very tiring to hear people say "why not a shelter cat? why do you want a purebred?" again and again, and being expected to explain myself. I understand that some people might make that decision without being fully aware of the alternative, but I've had people continue to try and convince me on the same thread REPEATEDLY and expect me to have all this reasoning and etc. to back up my current preference... It just gets really annoying. And honestly, it makes me not want to adopt even if I _do_ happen to find "the one" at a shelter, because I know that I'll have to stop talking to them or they may use it as fuel to harass others and feel justified in doing so.

Even if it isn't aggressive or ill-intentioned, I think that at some point it really becomes a form of bullying, to be perfectly honest.


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## Cailin (May 2, 2012)

I can only speak for the one individual Xolo I know. Jacinto is a medium sized Xolo. He's a beautiful dog, but not my type of personality. The way in which he is a guard dog is that he barks at everyone who comes close to his home. And his bark is quite loud for his size. He sleeps with his owners and is generally a mild tempered dog... Yet very distrustful of strangers and won't let strangers pet him. I have never seen him hearding but he has an incredible prey drive : the one time I considered looking after him, he wouldn't stop staring at my pet rats. He has killed many mice in his own place and I didn't want to endanger my boys. He is very sweet with his owners, though. Since he has hair, he doesn't suffer from skin problems that I know of. He does really enjoy walking. I don't think his owners put him to work and he seems content laying down on his blanket. That's all I know about Xolos. 

I think that if you are worried about it not being cuddly enough, or not being trainable... Then you shouldn't have one. In the end, you need to go for a breed you feel comfortable with. Though I have a feeling you are more comfortable with the idea of taking a cat for now. As a young woman who is about to start living on her own, cats are easier to carry and you know what you need to do with them, so there won't be any surprises. You can always go for a dog once you've settled down and think you can handle the unexpected.


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## Dumisanismith (Jun 12, 2013)

That was quite an info you pasted out there..bit i still have no idea of what dog you are talking about..


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

Cailin said:


> I can only speak for the one individual Xolo I know. Jacinto is a medium sized Xolo. He's a beautiful dog, but not my type of personality. The way in which he is a guard dog is that he barks at everyone who comes close to his home. And his bark is quite loud for his size. He sleeps with his owners and is generally a mild tempered dog... Yet very distrustful of strangers and won't let strangers pet him. I have never seen him hearding but he has an incredible prey drive : the one time I considered looking after him, he wouldn't stop staring at my pet rats. He has killed many mice in his own place and I didn't want to endanger my boys. He is very sweet with his owners, though. Since he has hair, he doesn't suffer from skin problems that I know of. He does really enjoy walking. I don't think his owners put him to work and he seems content laying down on his blanket. That's all I know about Xolos.
> 
> I think that if you are worried about it not being cuddly enough, or not being trainable... Then you shouldn't have one. In the end, you need to go for a breed you feel comfortable with. Though I have a feeling you are more comfortable with the idea of taking a cat for now. As a young woman who is about to start living on her own, cats are easier to carry and you know what you need to do with them, so there won't be any surprises. You can always go for a dog once you've settled down and think you can handle the unexpected.


Alright, thanks... I think the one Xolo I've met, who was at a rescue's stand at a dog show, wasn't at all unfriendly... The Crested was more wary of strangers, though I don't know their pasts. I could be mistaken and that dog could have been a PIO, but I think they said he was a Xolo...

True... But I've gotten fairly attached to our Aussie lately and I've done research, so I think I could settle in pretty easily with the right dog... That is something to think about, though.

Also, I wonder if I should really be discounting certain personalities-- maybe an older golden retriever... Not saying it's my first choice, but just discounting them entirely-- I don't know how they smell, though. Is it anything like labs? Though an English setter may have a personality a little like one but calmer indoors (I'm still considering a Bench setter...) I guess it's best not to discount any dog based on personality since they're all individuals, though I should still avoid the extremely active breeds.

Does anyone know if this lead http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003EH2XJ2 looks safe for a sighthound to run on, maybe if I combined a few of them? It looks good in theory, but I am a little concerned about skinny legs getting tangled.


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## LadyB (Mar 7, 2013)

> Does anyone know if this lead http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003EH2XJ2 looks safe for a sighthound to run on, maybe if I combined a few of them? It looks good in theory, but I am a little concerned about skinny legs getting tangled.


Are you thinking that you'd hold one end and run the dog back and forth or in a circle? Or let the dog drag the lead when running? We're working on outside recall with Bug using a similar long lead (but ours is only about 20 feet). It can get tangled in her legs or the legs of other dogs, or around trees or other objects, but usually when she drags it, it works fairly well (we don't let her drag it for any long distance, though—she's too fast). I try not to let her play with other dogs when it's dragging (could wrap around the two = bad news), but I'll hold on to the end and try to keep it out of the way. I wouldn't go longer than 50 feet—it's going to be a mild annoyance to manage that much lead as it is and if you need to stop the dog, 50 feet = potentially a lot of speed = potentially a very hard stop for the dog. You may want to tie knots along the length of the lead in order to give yourself something to grip on to. I've found that useful.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

You are looking at a huge number breeds with VASTLY different characteristics. It makes me wonder if you're not sure at all what you want. 

My suggestion? Go meet some of these dogs. If not the individual breeds, then representatives of a group you're interested in. Your average sighthound is way different from your average herder, which is different from your sporting dog or livestock guardian. Figure out more clearly what you'd want in a dog.

Alternatively, go to your nearest shelter, ask about the different dogs' temperaments, and choose one that you fall in love with.


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## puppycat (Jul 2, 2013)

I think you're right... Though realistically speaking, I don't know if herders or livestock guardians are doable due to high energy levels and low heat tolerance, respectively. Some day I may find myself living in a place with no or very expensive air conditioning because screw comfort I want adventure. 

The nearest shelter, though, almost always only contains breeds and mixes with energy levels that are far too high for me. Herders, labs, and pitties pretty much make up the population. I check their site regularly and there's very little selection, too. I think I would have to widen my search a bit.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

puppycat said:


> I think you're right... Though realistically speaking, I don't know if herders or livestock guardians are doable due to high energy levels and low heat tolerance, respectively. Some day I may find myself living in a place with no or very expensive air conditioning because screw comfort I want adventure.
> 
> The nearest shelter, though, almost always only contains breeds and mixes with energy levels that are far too high for me. Herders, labs, and pitties pretty much make up the population. I check their site regularly and there's very little selection, too. I think I would have to widen my search a bit.


My thought for you throughout this thread was: sighthound. Your original requirements aren't way off from my dog preferences (although I've loosened up/adapted a TON with Gypsy), and I'll be heading sighthound with my next dog. I think the right greyhound would or whippet would be a good fit. Though, you do have to realize, dogs are VERY different from cats. Even catlike dogs are very different from cats, LOL. You have to be willing to adapt.

I really think you should go meet some. At least in my area, greyhound rescues are great about getting out to public places like Petsmart for adoption events. If you can meet some of their dogs, you can ask your questions and get a better feel for the breed. I think you'll fall in love. Hehe.


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## gvanto (Jul 11, 2013)

Some cool articles on dog breeds here: http://www.pethostr.com/blog/?s=dog+breeds

They go into quite a bit of detail on each breed, I found it handy.

Personally I love the basset hound - my sniffles is awesome!

Good luck in your search!


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