# What happened to Canidae?



## CrazyDogLady (Dec 9, 2011)

I've been reading a few threads about quality dry foods and have noticed that Canidae ALS never makes anyone's list. I checked it out on dogfoodadvisor.com and it comes in with 4 stars, not perfect, but definitely respectable. To my uneducated eye, the ingredients looks pretty good, if you overlook the fact that they split out the rice.

I've done some poking around the 'net and have come across references to a recent formulation change, but no real explanation as to why it's not very good any more.

Could you help fill me in on why it doesn't seem to be considered "quality food" anymore? 

I just bought a 44lb bag and will probably switch to something else when it's done, but I really want to understand why and not just do it because "The Interwebz say so."


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## SeriousDogGuy (Jan 2, 2012)

Dog Advocate said:


> I heard it was the quality of what they use thats changed. I also dont like the fact that of the 1st 5 items listed 4 are grains. Its not a bad food just not the best. I'm new to the web forums and such but not to dog food!!! LoL There's recalls left and right and everyone has an oppinion. All foods are diffrent as are all dogs..... If your interested in switching I can recommend Health Extension. Taste wise the dogs seem to love it and its full of things that are good for them.
> One of the things I love the most about the Vets Choice line is all of the probiotics and vitamins. I have to take suppliments daily and my dogs get it right in the food!!!
> 
> 
> Do some research and check it out. : )



HHE in the Black Bag, the one you use, is a damn good food. Well priced, comes in 40lbs bags, good stuff. However, Canidae is just as good. You might need glasses because of the first 5 ingredients two are grains, brown rice and white rice.

You could really flip a coin between these two but Canidae is much easier to find.

Personally I like Canidae Chicken & Rice better.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Don't feed canidae, I have to have grain free for my old dog, Izze, but I hav never tried grain inclusive food for Josefina so I don't know howd shed do.


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

I rotate my dog's food and the Canidae Pure line of grain-free kibble is in her current rotation. So far Cassy has had the Pure Elements, Pure Sky and Pure Land. Once she's done with the current bag I'll get a bag of the Pure Sea before switching to another brand. Next, I might try some of the pre-made raw foods to see how she likes that.


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## SeriousDogGuy (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuzzy Pants said:


> I rotate my dog's food and the Canidae Pure line of grain-free kibble is in her current rotation. So far Cassy has had the Pure Elements, Pure Sky and Pure Land. Once she's done with the current bag I'll get a bag of the Pure Sea before switching to another brand. Next, I might try some of the pre-made raw foods to see how she likes that.



Why do you switch so much? Why not just stick with one food? Not sure you are doing the right thing. If your pup does develop a real food allergy you might have a hard time finding a food that she won't react to. I have read about "rotational feeding" but I have not been able to find any real science on it, other than a top nutritionist calling it the "gimmick of the month". All it does is cause people to buy more food than they need, since people throw away food. It is a marketing ploy.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

My dogs were on Canidae ALS for a while, they did fine on it. I think it's very reasonably priced. A big bag is cheaper than a bag of RC, which is only a 2 star food. The dogs would still be on it, but the site where I buy it from rarely has it in stock, so I have to pick whatever they've got, which at the moment is the Canidae chicken and rice, and before that it was the fish one. The dogs do fine on all of them, and seem to like them all the same.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

SeriousDogGuy said:


> Why do you switch so much? Why not just stick with one food? Not sure you are doing the right thing. If your pup does develop a real food allergy you might have a hard time finding a food that she won't react to. I have read about "rotational feeding" but I have not been able to find any real science on it, other than a top nutritionist calling it the "gimmick of the month". All it does is cause people to buy more food than they need, since people throw away food. It is a marketing ploy.


 Thats one reason to rotate, to hopefully prevent allergies. It'd be best to leave the novel proteins out there (rabbitt, kangaroo, etc) off the rotation list. It's also good to rotate between different types of foods: "real" raw, premade raw, canned, dehydrated and dry


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

SeriousDogGuy said:


> Why do you switch so much? Why not just stick with one food? Not sure you are doing the right thing. If your pup does develop a real food allergy you might have a hard time finding a food that she won't react to. I have read about "rotational feeding" but I have not been able to find any real science on it, other than a top nutritionist calling it the "gimmick of the month". All it does is cause people to buy more food than they need, since people throw away food. It is a marketing ploy.


 I'm not sure why you think rotating foods means people throw away food. . .I assure you none of my pet food gets thrown away, and I rotate for the dogs, cats, and ferret. 

I rotate because it's simply not healthy for any living being to eat the exact same thing every single day for months/years/decades.

Back to the OP. . .I think Canidae is fine. I only stopped buying it because they raised the price and the feed store that sells it is out of the way.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Willowy said:


> I'm not sure why you think rotating foods means people throw away food. . .I assure you none of my pet food gets thrown away, and I rotate for the dogs, cats, and ferret.
> 
> I rotate because it's simply not healthy for any living being to eat the exact same thing every single day for months/years/decades.
> 
> Back to the OP. . .I think Canidae is fine. I only stopped buying it because they raised the price and the feed store that sells it is out of the way.


I forgot to address that last night, glad you did. I throw no food out, who the heck can afford to?


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## SeriousDogGuy (Jan 2, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> I forgot to address that last night, glad you did. I throw no food out, who the heck can afford to?



Many people do, perhaps not you guys, but people that switch foods often also tend to buy smaller bags where the price per lb can be as much as double.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Who are these people? I rotate (different formulas of the same food), but the bags I buy last me a month (or more in Crystal's case) and I definitely don't throw out any food! I don't want to buy bigger bags that last several months, because I find that the dogs are less excited by the food as we near the bottom of a bag -- it probably doesn't taste as fresh after being opened and closed so many times during the month. (I keep it in an airtight container, which helps, but it still doesn't smell as fresh nearing the end.)


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

SeriousDogGuy said:


> Many people do, perhaps not you guys, but people that switch foods often also tend to buy smaller bags where the price per lb can be as much as double.


I imagine that people with smaller dogs buy smaller bags so it won't go stale. Other than that. . .well, I guess if some people can afford to throw food away, more power to them. I buy the big bags, buy different brands and open a different brand every time I need to open a new bag. It's exactly the same as if I only bought one brand.


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

Willowy said:


> I imagine that people with smaller dogs buy smaller bags so it won't go stale. Other than that. . .well, I guess if some people can afford to throw food away, more power to them. I buy the big bags, buy different brands and open a different brand every time I need to open a new bag. It's exactly the same as if I only bought one brand.


Exactly, I rotate to prevent allergies and nutritional deficiencies and don't throw food out. I do buy the small bags because I only have the one 9 lb dog. I do realize it is cheaper to buy the large bags...if you have a large dog. However, a 5 lb bag lasts my dog well over a month and a half. Dry dog food goes stale at around 3 months. If I were to buy a medium, let alone a large bag then yes I'd be throwing food out because it would be stale long before my little dog could finish it. Our next dog we get will probably be medium sized so then we'll switch to medium sized bags to save money.


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## SeriousDogGuy (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuzzy Pants said:


> Exactly, I rotate to prevent allergies and nutritional deficiencies and don't throw food out. I do buy the small bags because I only have the one 9 lb dog. I do realize it is cheaper to buy the large bags...if you have a large dog. However, a 5 lb bag lasts my dog well over a month and a half. Dry dog food goes stale at around 3 months. If I were to buy a medium, let alone a large bag then yes I'd be throwing food out because it would be stale long before my little dog could finish it. Our next dog we get will probably be medium sized so then we'll switch to medium sized bags to save money.


Who told you there is a nutritional advantage and a lower chances of allergies if you rotate foods. In fact, the more you rotate the greater the chance of having an allergy you cannot easily deal with. Dogs with allergies, as rare as they are, have really screwed up immune systems so its not the foods fault. The more you introduce different proteins the greater the chance of a difficult allergy.

There is no science to support rotational feeding none at all. I bet it is fun, though.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

An allergy cannot occur the first time the immune system is exposed to an antigen. Allergies develop with repeated exposure to an antigen. If you feed the same food over and over, you are exposing the animal's immune system to the same proteins/antigens over and over, therefore increasing the chance that if the dog is susceptible to developing an allergy to something in the food, the allergy will occur. If you're rotating proteins, the dog is not being exposed to one specific protein as often as if you were feeding the same protein over and over. If the dog is susceptible to developing an allergy to any of the proteins fed, there is a lesser chance of that allergy developing due to fewer overall instances of exposure to the protein. True novel proteins (kangaroo, pork, pheasant, etc.) should be avoided in the rotation so if multiple allergies occur, you still have alternatives that the animal hasn't been exposed to at all.

Rotational diets are used in humans with multiple food allergies for this purpose. They've been proven and they work.


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## SeriousDogGuy (Jan 2, 2012)

Lindbert said:


> An allergy cannot occur the first time the immune system is exposed to an antigen. Allergies develop with repeated exposure to an antigen. If you feed the same food over and over, you are exposing the animal's immune system to the same proteins/antigens over and over, therefore increasing the chance that if the dog is susceptible to developing an allergy to something in the food, the allergy will occur. If you're rotating proteins, the dog is not being exposed to one specific protein as often as if you were feeding the same protein over and over. If the dog is susceptible to developing an allergy to any of the proteins fed, there is a lesser chance of that allergy developing due to fewer overall instances of exposure to the protein. True novel proteins (kangaroo, pork, pheasant, etc.) should be avoided in the rotation so if multiple allergies occur, you still have alternatives that the animal hasn't been exposed to at all.
> 
> Rotational diets are used in humans with multiple food allergies for this purpose. They've been proven and they work.


There is no evidence this prevents allergies in dogs (with immune problems). Dogs with food allergies tend to be allergic to a wide variety of proteins as well as a whole host of environmental compounds. 

This sounds like something logical but many learned people believe that you should restrict the protein sources to one or two and only make changes in the unlikely event that your dog develops a problem. Frankly, I would be much more comfortable feeding chicken, fish & rice and keeping a very clean slate going forward. You never know when duck or pork will come in handy and it seems much better if the dog has never had it before.

This only became fashionable when the smart guy at Natures Variety figured out he could sell more dog food by suggesting rotational feeding.

What is wrong with this approach? Don't you think it eliminates the risk of a duck allergy if the dog has never had duck before?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Sorry, SeriousDogGuy, didn't catch your profession. Are you a dog nutritionist?

Also, still don't understand how rotational feeding leads to selling more dog food. I still buy one bag at a time.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

SeriousDogGuy said:


> Frankly, I would be much more comfortable feeding chicken, fish & rice and keeping a very clean slate going forward.


The great thing is, you can feed your dog however you choose to, and others can feed their dogs however they choose to.


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

SeriousDogGuy said:


> Who told you there is a nutritional advantage and a lower chances of allergies if you rotate foods. In fact, the more you rotate the greater the chance of having an allergy you cannot easily deal with. Dogs with allergies, as rare as they are, have really screwed up immune systems so its not the foods fault. The more you introduce different proteins the greater the chance of a difficult allergy.
> 
> There is no science to support rotational feeding none at all. I bet it is fun, though.


Sorry, I can't take you seriously as a 'dogguy'. Your arguments are absurd and completely lacking in proof. Lindbert did a good job of explaining why your arguments are absurd. You are posting what you 'feel' rather than what you know.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

SeriousDogGuy said:


> Many people do, perhaps not you guys, but people that switch foods often also tend to buy smaller bags where the price per lb can be as much as double.


I have always purchased the biggest bag and if it doesn't work for them, they have to finish it. Or at least one of them does. I have two dogs. I take 5-7 days of gradually introducing a new food; it takes 4-6 weeks to even know if a food is or isn't working so by then, there isn't much left



SeriousDogGuy said:


> Who told you there is a nutritional advantage and a lower chances of allergies if you rotate foods. In fact, the more you rotate the greater the chance of having an allergy you cannot easily deal with. Dogs with allergies, as rare as they are, have really screwed up immune systems so its not the foods fault. The more you introduce different proteins the greater the chance of a difficult allergy.
> 
> There is no science to support rotational feeding none at all. I bet it is fun, though.


My holistic vet, for starters and many articles I've read from professionals I respect online and in print.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

SeriousDogGuy said:


> There is no evidence this prevents allergies in dogs (with immune problems). Dogs with food allergies tend to be allergic to a wide variety of proteins as well as a whole host of environmental compounds.
> 
> This sounds like something logical but *many learned people* believe that you should restrict the protein sources to one or two and only make changes in the unlikely event that your dog develops a problem. Frankly, I would be much more comfortable feeding chicken, fish & rice and keeping a very clean slate going forward. You never know when duck or pork will come in handy and it seems much better if the dog has never had it before.
> 
> ...


First off, the bolded phrase really ruffled my feathers the wrong way. Who are you to assume my level of education?

Secondly, I'm simply explaining the immunological principles behind why rotation diets are used. There is no evidence they cause harm and from a biological and immunological standpoint, in theory they should be beneficial. 

I feed my dogs a varied diet because eating is one of their great joys in life and I think variety adds to their enjoyment. 

True, I do feel Nature's Variety does it in a gimmicky fashion, however rotational feeding was in practice all the way back in 1997, where I was first encouraged to change the protein sources in my dog's diet to manage poultry sensitivities she was developing. 

It does not eliminate the risk of a duck allergy if you switch to duck and continuously feed ONLY duck, especially if the original sensitivity was to a poultry protein. There is documented cross-reactivity to poultry proteins. Remember, repeated exposure primes the immune system to sensitivity if there is a predisposition for sensitivity to the protein. The fewer the exposure events, the lesser the likelihood of developing sensitivity.


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