# Scolding one dog, the other gets scared



## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

Basically what the title says. Hubby was scolding the puppy (Penny) today for chewing on a shoe...the older dog (Belle) always comes over to see what's going on when Penny gets scolded. 

But this time was different...when hubby was done, we saw that Belle was shaking...like she was afraid of him. Obviously we both started to pet her and talk to her and she got happy again pretty quickly. 

It was just really odd...and I'm not sure why she did that


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

Cause she's a baby and doesn't know any better.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Stop scolding and start training. Dogs are not dumb...they recognize threats from across the room...and yes, Hubby is a threat....that's not what you want to teach.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

What Tooney said. The person who left the shoe out for the puppy to find is who deserves to be scolded - s/he knows better. The puppy doesn't.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

All he did was say "no, this is not yours!" And gave her a toy. He does yell some...which I don't like...but not much I can do about that.



poodleholic said:


> What Tooney said. The person who left the shoe out for the puppy to find is who deserves to be scolded - s/he knows better. The puppy doesn't.


How is the puppy going to understand what is hers and what is ours if we do not scold her for playing with our stuff? We can't take everything away that she could possible destroy....like the piano....


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

emily445455 said:


> All he did was say "no, this is not yours!" And gave her a toy. He does yell some...which I don't like...but not much I can do about that.
> 
> 
> 
> How is the puppy going to understand what is hers and what is ours if we do not scold her for playing with our stuff? We can't take everything away that she could possible destroy....like the piano....


You can talk to your husband about the yelling (because you are both human adults)

Pick up EVERYTHING you can. The piano she shouldn't be around unsupervised. When she goes for it, redirect her. Reward her for playing with her toys. Try bitter apple on it as well, it's non-toxic.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

jesirose said:


> You can talk to your husband about the yelling (because you are both human adults)
> 
> Pick up EVERYTHING you can. The piano she shouldn't be around unsupervised. When she goes for it, redirect her. Reward her for playing with her toys. Try bitter apple on it as well, it's non-toxic.


I have...I think it's just his reaction.

Bitter apple what? The piano is over 100 yrs old...I don't want to mess it up.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Perhaps it would help if you explained to hubby that dogs are attracted to and absolutely love items that have the strong scent of their owners...shoes, socks, underwear. That is their way of bonding closer with you but, to yell at them for doing that (wanting to bond closer) is confusing as Hell.
A simple UTTT will do and then exchange for something appropriate with lots of praise. Have hubby carry around a tennis ball for a few days (putting his scent on it) and then teach fetch.....that can become the #1 most valued item for the dog and is a good outlet/game.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

TooneyDogs said:


> Perhaps it would help if you explained to hubby that dogs are attracted to and absolutely love items that have the strong scent of their owners...shoes, socks, underwear. That is their way of bonding closer with you but, to yell at them for doing that (wanting to bond closer) is confusing as Hell.
> A simple UTTT will do and then exchange for something appropriate with lots of praise. Have hubby carry around a tennis ball for a few days (putting his scent on it) and then teach fetch.....that can become the #1 most valued item for the dog and is a good outlet/game.


Hubby has had dogs since he was a boy, these are my first two. He knows a lot more about dogs than I do. That's also why I think he reacts the way he does...it's what his dad did with his dogs growing up. 

I think he would look at my like I was absolutely crazy if I suggested he should carry around a tennis ball, lol.

I'll talk to him about the yelling. I think that is part of the reason why our older dog is so emotional.


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

I have 1.5 trained dogs (Brutus is half trained) and I've never scolded either one. If they're doing something I don't like I say, "Aaaaaatt" in a firm voice. It takes about 2 seconds to say and the dog picks up that he is not behaving the way I want. It doesn't give my other dog time to come from across the room and see what's going on. It's a very quick verbal correction.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> =emily445455;545580]All he did was say "no, this is not yours!" And gave her a toy. He does yell some...which I don't like...but not much I can do about that.


Your older dog was shaking in response - THAT says voluumes about "all he did." Yelling at dogs doesn't work any better than yelling at children. You CAN do something about it - use your voice! Let him know you don't like the yelling. 




> How is the puppy going to understand what is hers and what is ours if we do not scold her for playing with our stuff? We can't take everything away that she could possible destroy....like the piano....


You puppyproof the house just as parents do for babies/toddlers. Parents who leave everything out, then run around screaming NO, and/or slapping hands create more work for themselves than if they'd keep the area picked up and clear of anything not appropriate. (They also create children who don't listen, and become screamers, too.) Training will help you communicate with your puppy, and should start right now. When you cannot supervise your puppy, then contain her in an ex-pen, or in her crate. This will keep her safe, and your personal belongings safe as well.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

poodleholic said:


> Your older dog was shaking in response - THAT says voluumes about "all he did." Yelling at dogs doesn't work any better than yelling at children. You CAN do something about it - use your voice! Let him know you don't like the yelling.


I have said things to him. But he just gets angry at me. Maybe I will try again next time he does it. I yell at them sometimes too out of frustration...but I'm not as scary as my hubby cause my voice isn't as low and I can't yell as loud.

The shoes are the only thing left on the floor...everything else is either up, or in a room with the door closed.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

emily445455 said:


> I have said things to him. But he just gets angry at me. Maybe I will try again next time he does it. I yell at them sometimes too out of frustration...but I'm not as scary as my hubby cause my voice isn't as low and I can't yell as loud.
> 
> The shoes are the only thing left on the floor...everything else is either up, or in a room with the door closed.


Next time your husband does anything wrong just go on a 5 minute tirade on him. Then calmly say "honey you didn't like that did you?"


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

Westhighlander said:


> Next time your husband does anything wrong just go on a 5 minute tirade on him. Then calmly say "honey you didn't like that did you?"


Lol, def not going to do this. Submission is something I struggle with and am working on.

I'll mention something next time it happens...something like, I don't think that's the best approach or along those lines.


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

emily445455 said:


> I have said things to him. But he just gets angry at me. Maybe I will try again next time he does it. I yell at them sometimes too out of frustration...but I'm not as scary as my hubby cause my voice isn't as low and I can't yell as loud.


It sounds to me like your husband may have anger problems and you two definitely have communication problems.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

hulkamaniac said:


> It sounds to me like your husband may have anger problems and you two definitely have communication problems.


He has some anger issues...but nothing real serious. He's just very set in his ways, and gets upset if I challenge them. He's getting better though.

And I haven't met a married couple yet that doesn't have some communication problems  I am learning how to bring up issues and how to word them.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

I think its unrealistic for everyone to think an owner is NEVER going to yell at their dogs. We are human and we react, sometimes it isn't the appropiate reaction, but it does happen. I don't think it means "anger issues". The dog isn't being beaten, from what I've read.

Emily, when my hubby and I got our first puppy (stupidly) there was a lot of yelling going on. She was a nut. (It was our fault) Hubby was the yeller, for the most part. I had bad moments too. Our first dog is how you describe yours, "emotional." 

I think what really got my hub was one time when he went to scold Jiggy and she looked at him with these huge eyes.... I said, "See how shes looking at you? Shes afraid. I would never want anyone to look at me like that."

Live and learn.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

No, they are most definitly not beaten. I don't believe in hitting a dog...since we pet them in the same areas that we hit them...IDK, just seems weird.

I think that's why our older one is so emotional. We tried our best...but neither of us knew how to best raise a dog. We are doing things differently with the puppy (at least I am)...and I noticed hubby doesn't yell at her as much as he did the 1st. Hopefully Penny has a better puppyhood


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Ok Emily, start with training the pup to 'leave it' using this Doggy Zen have hubby use the training exercise as well, it's always better to teach a dog to DO something than to yell at it to stop doing something (same with our kids  ). If everyone is consistant with the rules that pup should learn quickly. Be sure to redirect to something the pup IS allowed to chew on as pups need to chew just a babies need to suckle. Remind hubby that the pup IS still a baby even though the body may not look like it and let him know that even grown dogs have the same mental capacity as 3-4 year old child. 

The last thing you need is a fearful dog, fearful dogs tend to be more prone to aggression than confident dogs.

BTW, you can use Doggy Zen to increase Belle's confidence as well.


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

emily445455 said:


> He has some anger issues...but nothing real serious. He's just very set in his ways, and gets upset if I challenge them. He's getting better though.
> 
> And I haven't met a married couple yet that doesn't have some communication problems  I am learning how to bring up issues and how to word them.


I don't know. Maybe I'm old fashioned or just naive. I admit I'm not married so my knowledge of marriage is limited. My parents have been married for 30 years and my grandparents for 60 if that means anything. Anyway, I would not want my wife to just be my sidekick and do whatever I want. Every wedding I've been to the paster/priest/minister/whatever pronounced the husband and wife as one flesh and said things like, "from henceforth you walk down life's road together" , etc, etcs..... That means (to me anyway) that you have just as much say in what goes on in the house as he does whether it's what you're going to eat for dinner, whether/when you're going to have kids, what your budget is going to look like next month or how you're going to discipline the dog. That's just my two cents anyway.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

hulkamaniac said:


> That means (to me anyway) that you have just as much say in what goes on in the house as he does whether it's what you're going to eat for dinner, whether/when you're going to have kids, what your budget is going to look like next month or how you're going to discipline the dog. That's just my two cents anyway.


I try to live my life as a Biblical wife.



> Ok Emily, start with training the pup to 'leave it' using this Doggy Zen have hubby use the training exercise as well, it's always better to teach a dog to DO something than to yell at it to stop doing something (same with our kids ). If everyone is consistant with the rules that pup should learn quickly. Be sure to redirect to something the pup IS allowed to chew on as pups need to chew just a babies need to suckle. Remind hubby that the pup IS still a baby even though the body may not look like it and let him know that even grown dogs have the same mental capacity as 3-4 year old child.
> 
> The last thing you need is a fearful dog, fearful dogs tend to be more prone to aggression than confident dogs.
> 
> BTW, you can use Doggy Zen to increase Belle's confidence as well.


Our older dog knows (kind of knows) "leave it" and it's great. But the puppy...not so much yet. We say it to her, cause it's just habit from saying it to the older one, and she just looks at us and keeps doing what she's doing, Lol. she's so cute.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

IDK though...Belle is still cute when she's doing something bad.  Esp when she knows it and she looks at you like "uh oh Sorry mom!!" hehe


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## Britt Caleb & Enzo (Mar 28, 2009)

hulkamaniac said:


> I don't know. Maybe I'm old fashioned or just naive. I admit I'm not married so my knowledge of marriage is limited. My parents have been married for 30 years and my grandparents for 60 if that means anything. Anyway, I would not want my wife to just be my sidekick and do whatever I want. Every wedding I've been to the paster/priest/minister/whatever pronounced the husband and wife as one flesh and said things like, "from henceforth you walk down life's road together" , etc, etcs..... That means (to me anyway) that you have just as much say in what goes on in the house as he does whether it's what you're going to eat for dinner, whether/when you're going to have kids, what your budget is going to look like next month or how you're going to discipline the dog. That's just my two cents anyway.


Off topic, but with that outlook, I'd marry you tomorrow. lol. But seriously, that is the way things SHOULD be. I am my boyfriend's equal. Heck, he gives ME more say most of the time. That's just how he was raised.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

jesirose said:


> If she knew she was doing something bad, she wouldn't be doing it. If they do it, they don't think it's wrong. We're the same way.


really? People do things all the time that they know are wrong...yet do them anyways. 

She only does bad things when Penny is doing them first. Like Penny will get a sock, then they'll play tug-o-war with it. Belle never does bad things without a little encouragment from her little sister.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

emily445455 said:


> really? People do things all the time that they know are wrong...yet do them anyways.
> 
> She only does bad things when Penny is doing them first. Like Penny will get a sock, then they'll play tug-o-war with it. Belle never does bad things without a little encouragment from her little sister.



Em, dogs aren't people the awareness of infants when it comes to right and wrong. remember that animals don't understand 'sin' or roght and wrong, they are innocent.


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

Emily, you and your husband really should sit down calmly and discuss these things (not trying to give marriage advice, sorry if it seems that way). Waiting until he gets a little too angry with the puppy, is not going to solve anything. Do you have any children yet? Are you ever planning on having children? These are the same basic principles that will apply when/if you do have children. If hubby chooses to raise your children in a way you do not approve of... what will you do then? Maybe you might try looking into bringing home some puppy training books, and reading them with your husband. You can spend time bonding as a married couple, while bonding with your puppy. If he gets frustrated, that's okay... it's just time to end the session. There's no sense in doing a training session while your angry or frustrated... the puppy will learn nothing from you.
Remember she is a dog. She does not understand the words you use. Yelling gets you no where with dogs, other than startling them. She will also be able to pick up on the body language you are putting out (and you might not have any idea that you are even doing this), so you should try to be conscious of this.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

emily445455 said:


> really? People do things all the time that they know are wrong...yet do them anyways.


Then they don't think it's wrong. If you thought it was really wrong to do it, you wouldn't do it.

People justify things so they think they are ok. They no longer think it's wrong.

YOU think those things are wrong. That does not MAKE them wrong.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

jesirose said:


> Then they don't think it's wrong. If you thought it was really wrong to do it, you wouldn't do it.


Hm, have to disagree there. I used to do all sorts of things I _knew _were wrong, but did them anyways. Like lie to my parents (wrong), steal (wrong), etc.



ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> Emily, you and your husband really should sit down calmly and discuss these things (not trying to give marriage advice, sorry if it seems that way). Waiting until he gets a little too angry with the puppy, is not going to solve anything. Do you have any children yet? Are you ever planning on having children? These are the same basic principles that will apply when/if you do have children. If hubby chooses to raise your children in a way you do not approve of... what will you do then? Maybe you might try looking into bringing home some puppy training books, and reading them with your husband. You can spend time bonding as a married couple, while bonding with your puppy. If he gets frustrated, that's okay... it's just time to end the session. There's no sense in doing a training session while your angry or frustrated... the puppy will learn nothing from you.
> Remember she is a dog. She does not understand the words you use. Yelling gets you no where with dogs, other than startling them. She will also be able to pick up on the body language you are putting out (and you might not have any idea that you are even doing this), so you should try to be conscious of this.


Yes we do plan on having children in the near future. We have discussed discipline and how we are going to raise them a lot. We are pretty much on the same page, a few things we are unsure about and will just have to see when that time comes. 

I kind of have to wait until it happens again...if I bring it up randomly, he'll just get upset. He'll probably ask me "what forums were you reading today" lol, I guess I get some crazy ideas from reading forums ( not just this one).


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

emily445455 said:


> Hm, have to disagree there. I used to do all sorts of things I _knew _were wrong, but did them anyways. Like lie to my parents (wrong), steal (wrong), etc.


Then you didn't think they were wrong. You thought it was okay to do them, and later decided it was no longer okay. The benefit of getting someone via theft made it okay for you to steal. If you thought it was the wrong thing to do, you wouldn't do it. It's simple.

It hardly matters. We're apparently not discussing your life, but the dog. (ETA: If you don't want people to comment on their thoughts about your husband or marriage, don't post it. I once posted a rant about my husband and the dog and got all sorts of responses about how we should divorce and not get another dog. It's not the point, and if you don't want comments on your religion or your marriage, don't bring them up. Cause the way you write about it makes it sound VERY messed up.)

If the dog does something, you teach it not to. You don't assume the dog "knows" and does it anyway.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

emily445455 said:


> Hm, have to disagree there. I used to do all sorts of things I _knew _were wrong, but did them anyways. Like lie to my parents (wrong), steal (wrong), etc.


We all have Em, but we have the knowledge of good and evil, dogs don't. We have to teach them the 'rules' and enforce them as we would with *very* young children. Perhaps you should put it that way to your husband.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

cshellenberger said:


> We all have Em, but we have the knowledge of good and evil, dogs don't. We have to teach them the 'rules' and enforce them as we would with *very* young children. Perhaps you should put it that way to your husband.


We understand this. We are teaching her what is okay and what is not. I think we're just going about it in kind of the wrong way.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

cshellenberger said:


> We all have Em, but we have the knowledge of good and evil, dogs don't.


We have an idea of what WE THINK are good and bad. That doesn't make them universal truths. If you think something is bad, you DO NOT DO IT. If you have done something, then at the TIME you did it, you did not think it was a bad thing to do. You might tell yourself "oh I'm going to steal this $20, I know it's wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway" - you're lieing to yourself (another thing we think is wrong) in order to make it okay for yourself. It was not bad then. 

Tug of war is not inherently bad, it's a fun game.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Then print up the doggy zen and show it to hubby, after all, if your two year old child took a piece of bubble gum from a store you would not immediately yell at them, you'd have them return to candy and try to explain what they did wrong. You'd teach the child that things have to be paid for so they would later understand that not paying is stealing.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

jesirose said:


> Tug of war is not inherently bad, it's a fun game.


I never said it was. I love it when my dogs play tug-o-war with those rope toy things I get them. Except then they stop and start to destroy the rope....


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## Sophie's Mum (Jan 24, 2009)

I think it all depends what you mean by yelling Emily. A firm scolding is not harmful to a dog with a slightly louder voice to make a point. People can't be expected to leave the urgen tone out of a situation at all times. Louder, more abrupt shows more urgency in the voice. From what you are describing, your husband doesn't use physical contact, he substituted a toy instead. In my book, that was just fine.

I have two VERY sensitive dogs, one more than the other. Scolding them with a firm "NO!" or "LEAVE IT!" does not usually harm a dog's psyche. I have to "yell" at my most sensitive pup all the time to teach him to respect my cat... he's starting to get the message now.

It would be better to try to be there right at the time you suspect one of the dogs will do something wrong. This way the teacher is prepared in advanced and can use a less urgent tone in his/her voice.


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## nikkilugi (Mar 11, 2009)

jesirose said:


> We have an idea of what WE THINK are good and bad. That doesn't make them universal truths. If you think something is bad, you DO NOT DO IT. If you have done something, then at the TIME you did it, you did not think it was a bad thing to do. You might tell yourself "oh I'm going to steal this $20, I know it's wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway" - you're lieing to yourself (another thing we think is wrong) in order to make it okay for yourself. It was not bad then.
> 
> Tug of war is not inherently bad, it's a fun game.


Not to digress off the topic, however, I think we all know what is right and what is wrong. We KNOW that doing something wrong is bad - the person that cheats on their spouse KNOWS it is wrong and bad. They justify it to make it seem better in their minds - but they still know it is bad. People do bad things all the time KNOWING they are bad. Taking a gun to school is bad and murdering is bad and a person knows this - they might think they have a reason for doing what they are doing but it doesn't make the act any less wrong and bad regardless. 

We can also use the example of a person with a compulsion. A kleptomaniac knows it is wrong and bad to shoplift but they can't stop. They can't help it even though they know it is bad.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

nikkilugi said:


> Not to digress off the topic, however, I think we all know what is right and what is wrong. We KNOW that doing something wrong is bad - the person that cheats on their spouse KNOWS it is wrong and bad. They justify it to make it seem better in their minds - but they still know it is bad. People do bad things all the time KNOWING they are bad. Taking a gun to school is bad and murdering is bad and a person knows this - they might think they have a reason for doing what they are doing but it doesn't make the act any less wrong and bad regardless.
> 
> We can also use the example of a person with a compulsion. A kleptomaniac knows it is wrong and bad to shoplift but they can't stop. They can't help it even though they know it is bad.


I disagree. The justification makes it okay for them. People have different moralities, and while they might know that other people think it's wrong, if they justify doing it for themselves, they don't think it's really wrong.

No one or dog will do something they think is bad or wrong. They think it's the right thing to do, everyone else's ideas be damned.


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## nikkilugi (Mar 11, 2009)

Well I guess we will agree to disagree. I only know what I know from my own experience. I used to shoplift as a teen - I didn't NEED to do it - I did it because I wanted the item AND because I got a rush because I knew it was wrong and bad. The same can be said for lots of people who get the rush of doing something they know is bad - THAT is exactly why they do it. Freaky huh?

I have watched my kids. You know that they know when they are doing something bad. They get quiet, they get secretive, they avoid me - and we are talking about kids who know better. They might have justified their actions but they still KNOW what they are doing is wrong because they are avoiding me while doing it. Justification is just an excuse - it doesn't stop you from feeling guilt when you know you have done something wrong. I have lied from time to time - I knew it was wrong at the time and I justified my action but I sure as hell felt guilty afterwards. Many times people justify their actions after the fact to try and make what they did SEEM right. It is usually not a decision that is made during the act.

Sorry for the hijack - again we will have to just disagree on this topic or we can debate on a different thread


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

They know they're going to get in trouble. You knew you might get in trouble. It's not the same as knowing it's actually wrong to do it. 

You feel guilty because you later felt it was wrong. 

If you stop and think about it why would anyone do something they think is wrong? Why?


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

It sounds like you are describing a sociopath...someone who does not realize what is right and wrong. I think we have all done things we know are wrong from time to time. I certainly have. I have known I am doing something bad but basically tought, F it, because I will gain this from doing it (selfishness).... it isn't as though later on a lightbulb clicked and I thought "Oh dear, this is wrong, how could I not have seen that?" 

It is great that you don't do things you know are wrong, but surely you cannot say no one ever does.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

nikkilugi said:


> Not to digress off the topic, however, I think we all know what is right and what is wrong. We KNOW that doing something wrong is bad - the person that cheats on their spouse KNOWS it is wrong and bad. They justify it to make it seem better in their minds - but they still know it is bad. People do bad things all the time KNOWING they are bad. Taking a gun to school is bad and murdering is bad and a person knows this - they might think they have a reason for doing what they are doing but it doesn't make the act any less wrong and bad regardless.
> 
> We can also use the example of a person with a compulsion. A kleptomaniac knows it is wrong and bad to shoplift but they can't stop. They can't help it even though they know it is bad.


Exactly. That's why 99.9% of people who commit crimes run from the cops or deny they did it. Or why I lied to my parents when I was a teen...I knew it was wrong, I didn't want them to know I did it/get punished for doing it.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

emily445455 said:


> Exactly. That's why 99.9% of people who commit crimes run from the cops or deny they did it. Or why I lied to my parents when I was a teen...I knew it was wrong, I didn't want them to know I did it/get punished for doing it.


You didn't want to get punished. End of story. 

It's the difference between a person who finds a wallet full of money and returns it and the person who takes it. Say there's no consequence and only monetary gain to be had from keeping it. The person who takes it believes the benefits far out way the risks. "It's not wrong because I need it". The fact that the action can be made NOT WRONG ("right") means that they never had a strong belief that it was wrong.

A person who knows it is WRONG to take the money will NOT take it, even knowing there are no consequences to keeping it. No matter how in need of a financial boost.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

K, well, I disagree


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

emily445455 said:


> K, well, I disagree


And you can, that's fine. I was just trying to explain my ideas by way of example to make it clearer. There are things that are perceived as wrong by many or just one, situational and circumstantial, etc. 

I disagree that your dog knows what it is doing is wrong. All she knows is that a punishment follows the behavior. Ask your dog why it's wrong to potty inside. She can't explain it's because it ruins property and that costs money and time, not to mention property with sentimental value. Same thing with chewing. 

Why is it wrong to chew? We know it's because it ruins property and can hurt (if it's you she's chewing on). 

She will learn (if she hasn't already) that it is wrong because YOU teach her to do otherwise. But she can NEVER explain why you think it is wrong.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

I never said she understood why it was wrong...she just knows it is wrong because Mommy and Daddy say so.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

Entwine said:


> You didn't want to get punished. End of story.
> 
> It's the difference between a person who finds a wallet full of money and returns it and the person who takes it. Say there's no consequence and only monetary gain to be had from keeping it. The person who takes it believes the benefits far out way the risks. "It's not wrong because I need it". The fact that the action can be made NOT WRONG ("right") means that they never had a strong belief that it was wrong.
> 
> A person who knows it is WRONG to take the money will NOT take it, even knowing there are no consequences to keeping it. No matter how in need of a financial boost.


Exactly. Thank you for sharing your POV!


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