# Purposely quicking the nails while dog's under anesthesia



## kna (May 7, 2010)

Chuy, my Westie, just turned 1 this past Monday, so it's now time to neuter him. I scheduled his appointment for next week with my vet who I love. She uses sevoflurane and does the laser neutering, which not many vets in my area offer.

Now, Chuy used to be very good about getting his nails trimmed as a puppy. Gradually as he grew older, he started getting a little less tolerant. Twice, I quicked his nails and he freaked out. I use a Dremel but he gets very fidgety before I can really make a dent in trimming them down. Basically, his nails aren't LONG but I still hear them click on the floor. 

I read that some owners opt to have their dogs' nails trimmed very short while they are already under anesthesia for routine spay/neuter. That way, the painful part is done while the dog is knocked out, and after he wakes up he will already be on pain meds so that can help with any soreness. So long as the vet trims them way back, the quicks will recede and they will be easier to maintain from then on.

I emailed my vet about having this done and she said:



> We trim nails as close to the quick as possible but do not cut deep into the quick, as this contributes to a painful recovery. If his quicks are long, then he will need frequent nail trims to get the quicks shorter. You can bring him here for that, or bring him to a local groomer that you trust. This does not require sedation or anesthesia, just an experienced dog-groomer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it cruel of me to have asked for this to be done? Should I press the issue further? I already know that I can slowly have the quick recede by weekly trimming. I'm just afraid it will be stressful and potentially painful for Chuy and I'd rather have it all done quickly while he's already knocked out.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Imo, it would be less painful to trim them over many weeks, without getting into the quick. Work with him everyday to reduce his stress, rather than have him freak out for nail trims.
The nails will still have to be regularly maintained, even if you were to cut them back into the quick. So training, and not causing pain would benefit the dog.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

I wouldn't press the issue with your vet, who has already told you (in a nice way) that they don't do this procedure because it's unnecessarily painful. Especially since your dog's nails aren't very long, but just clicking, I don't think it's a good idea. 

Have you tried bringing your dog to a groomer for nail trims? I find an experienced groomer can get the nails a lot shorter than I dare.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm not sure it's cruel but don't do it. Trim them weekly, easier on your dog, less painful, too.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

You can countercondition and desensitize chuy to nail trims. kikopup on youtube has some wonderful videos on using clicker training for this. it's not difficult to do, you just need patience and a bunch of treats.

I know what you mean about the long nails, though. Kabota still has very long quicks. I doubt his nails were ever trimmed in 3 years. Listening to his nails click on the hardwood, I feel like he might be hurting and just not showing it, but the groomer and the vet say he's okay. We're just doing frequent trims. It's slow work, but we're getting there.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I have personally experienced getting very long quicks to recede over a period of months. Honestly, I think that is what you should do as well, because having your vet cut them short for you will do nothing to help in the long term. The only way you're going to be able to keep his nails maintained is by desensitizing him to trimmings and doing it often. If you never get that figured out it will be a lifelong problem and I certainly wouldn't want him to have to go through having his quicks cut on multiple occasions.

To give you an idea of what I was working with:









This one was taken probably a month or two later, after I started dremeling (getting them very short) every 2-3 days.









A couple years later now they don't even touch the ground and they are easy to maintain because all those frequent trimmings really desensitized her. She still doesn't like it, but she knows if she just sits still for me it will be over faster and then we can go play.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't think it's necessarily cruel, but it doesn't really solve the problem, and in any case your vet has already said she doesn't do it. In the long run I agree with others that it's better to desensitize and slowly work the quicks back.


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

I say dremel one foot per day until you've done all four. Praise and treat heavily with a high value treat that they only get when you dremel their nails. Follow with play time. Use your calendar to keep track of which foot you've done that day. Repeat every week. That way he gets used to it quicker since he'll be getting yummy treats and having a paw dremeled 4 days a week, every week for a while. Then just dremel as necessary.


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## qingcong (Oct 26, 2009)

What if you cut to the quick AND work on conditioning stuff afterwords? Much faster and easier that way, right?

About whether it's cruel or not... the dog just had its nuts cut off. I think cutting the quick is certainly less "cruel".


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

qingcong said:


> What if you cut to the quick AND work on conditioning stuff afterwords? Much faster and easier that way, right?
> 
> About whether it's cruel or not... the dog just had its nuts cut off. I think cutting the quick is certainly less "cruel".


 I think it'd be painful, even with pain killers - when I cut my nails too short they hurt for days until it grows back! I wouldn't want to do that to my dog whether they were sedated or not!

Everyone who posted about desensitizing nail trimming is absolutely right. In the long run, this is the best way to have short nails without spending $10-15 at the groomers every week to keep them short.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

qingcong said:


> About whether it's cruel or not... the dog just had its nuts cut off. I think cutting the quick is certainly less "cruel".


He doesn't walk on where his nuts used to be. . ..



chubby said:


> I think it'd be painful, even with pain killers - when I cut my nails too short they hurt for days until it grows back! I wouldn't want to do that to my dog whether they were sedated or not!


Excatly what I was going to say. Ouch!

If you really can't get him to accept the home nail trims, suck it up and take him to the groomer twice a month. They have ways .


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## qingcong (Oct 26, 2009)

Willowy said:


> He doesn't walk on where his nuts used to be. . ..



Yeah, who knows. I think it probably scabs over pretty quickly and if it's short enough, it doesn't hit the ground anyways. When I have accidentally cut my dog's quick before, it usually stops bleeding in less than a minute.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

qingcong said:


> Yeah, who knows. I think it probably scabs over pretty quickly and if it's short enough, it doesn't hit the ground anyways. When I have accidentally cut my dog's quick before, it usually stops bleeding in less than a minute.


They cauterize it, but it still hurts and could theoretically get infected. I think this would fall under the category of "surgery for convenience," almost a cosmetic procedure. It's a painful procedure done for the convenience of the owner (and without the public policy implications of neutering), when the owner could fairly easily use a totally non-painful alternative. I don't see the argument in favor of cutting/cauterizing in this situation at all. It would be different if, for example, the dog's nails were so long and neglected that it was malforming his feet or causing problems with his gait or something, but the OP said his nails weren't that long, they were only long enough to click on the floor. Not worth it.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

I have done it, when I had no luck, even with twice weekly dremeling, getting the quicks to recede. We already had a nail routine. But, I work at a vet and had free reign over my own dog's feet to do what I wanted with them. (we don't go around quicking client dogs' toes unless asked) As a note, it did work as planned and he had nice looking feet now. He never batted an eye upon waking and never appeared sore (was jumping, running, etc). 

I'm sure being castrated is far more pain producing than a few quicked nails.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Over the years, I have done it with rescues. You get them in and try to get them ready to move forward. They always have long nails. Or it seems that way. Most have never had their nails done. So if we are going to do a neuter spay we often have the dog quicked. I have even taken dogs in specifically to have their nails quicked. 


It is not a big deal. Never had a dog seem like it was bothered by it.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

hamandeggs said:


> They cauterize it, but it still hurts and could theoretically get infected. I think this would fall under the category of "surgery for convenience," almost a cosmetic procedure. It's a painful procedure done for the convenience of the owner (and without the public policy implications of neutering), when the owner could fairly easily use a totally non-painful alternative. I don't see the argument in favor of cutting/cauterizing in this situation at all. It would be different if, for example, the dog's nails were so long and neglected that it was malforming his feet or causing problems with his gait or something, but the OP said his nails weren't that long, they were only long enough to click on the floor. Not worth it.


Pretty damning statements..... Try getting a dog that has never had its nails done prepped. 

How many dogs have you been around after they were quicked? How do you know it hurts them afterwards? From personal observation? 

Because I sure have not seen a sore foot from a quicking procedure.

Funny people have no issue doing potentially major surgery (neuters and spays) for PURELY convenience reasons. But want to tippy toe around a simple procedure with no real risk and no lasting pain.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I thought I would stop by again to say I don't find anything ethically wrong with the procedure in general. I mostly just think in this particular case it would be treating a small symptom, but not the cause of the problem, especially since the dog's nails aren't out of control or anything. I guess it's a mute point for this specific situation, though, since the vet won't do it anyway.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

As insane as long nails drive ME, over time I've come to accept that nails don't have to be short. Jonas has perpetually long nails:










They're not horrendous, but they're not pristine and you can hear him clicking a bit on the floor. As long as they aren't impeding him I have let go of my crazy over it. I wouldn't have him quicked just for the sake of getting them super short. Elsa is still in the process of learning nail trims are OK and I'd rather just work at it and get as many as short as I can rather than in one super short cut while in surgery. The longer they are the more opportunities we have to work at nail trims to get them shorter and shorter, if that makes sense.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> The longer they are the more opportunities we have to work at nail trims to get them shorter and shorter, if that makes sense.


Yes it makes perfect sense and kind of what I meant although I didn't articulate it. 

I don't think it's worse than Hitler or anything, and honestly I don't think I've ever seen a quicked or broken nail get infected, but it really doesn't solve the problem OR allow much opportunity to work on solving the actual problem of being unable to clip the nails (since now the dog has short nails with the quicks grown out to the ends). 

And it's all moot anyway since the vet doesn't do it.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Funny people have no issue doing potentially major surgery (neuters and spays) for PURELY convenience reasons. But want to tippy toe around a simple procedure with no real risk and no lasting pain.


Whoa, no need for anger. I specifically said if the nails were causing problems (i.e. had never been done) I think it would be OK. In this case, the dog's nails have been done and aren't even that long, so in THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION it would be unnecessary.

And BTW, while convenience is one reason for spaying/neutering, it's hardly the only one.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

sassafras said:


> Yes it makes perfect sense and kind of what I meant although I didn't articulate it.
> 
> I don't think it's worse than Hitler or anything, and honestly I don't think I've ever seen a quicked or broken nail get infected, but it really doesn't solve the problem OR allow much opportunity to work on solving the actual problem of being unable to clip the nails (since now the dog has short nails with the quicks grown out to the ends).
> 
> And it's all moot anyway since the vet doesn't do it.


Yes this. If the dog has nails so long it's impeding their walking or they're growing into paw pads, by all means get them quicked. Magpie had nails so long she was not walking when she was taken by an animal control, and they had to quick them all so she could walk. Fine by me, but when a vet quicked all of Jonas' nails while he was in getting neutered I was pretty salty. They will grow back before a dog is generally feasibly ready to accept nail trims, so nothing there is really earned, and they weren't ghastly. They also quicked all of Smalls' nails and cut them to a length so short that I would NEVER try to obtain myself.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree he doesn't walk on his privates lol, dogs dont care their nuts are gone, Buddy I'm sure was neutered late & he is the most care free guy you'd ever meet... He even greeted the vet who came out For the horses today. Now if he cared he would have some vindetta against vets don't you think?


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

LOL - too funny that I came across this thread. Today I had the daycare owner do Bella's nails because she has been giving me such a hard time lately and they are getting too long. 

I said to her jokingly "maybe I'll take her to the vet and have her knocked out and they can cut the [email protected] outta those talons!" I was just joking and never thought anyone actually did that!! 

I've been - maybe _overly_ - obsessed with the length of her nails. I've read several comments here over the years when someone looks at a pic of someone's dog and says something like, "OMG - those nails are WAY too long!" So it became ingrained that maybe I'm neglecting Bella's nails. "They shouldn't touch the floor"... "they are too long if you can hear them click".

With the exception of the hardwood, I don't think - now - that there is any harm in "clicking"....? Amanda says she just has the super-long, super-tough "Ridgeback" nails. Maybe that's the way they are supposed to be? 

I'll stop obsessing now. Thanks for this thread! =)


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Hey, I used to comment on nails! Then I realized I was being a jerk and how hard it is to work with a dog that does not like nail trims. Elsa has fairly ghastly nails- some short where we got a cut and others super long. We're working really hard to associate nail trims with good things and it's going to take a long time. If she never has perfectly manicure nails, oh well. As long as she can walk and they aren't hurting her I'm not going to worry about it any more.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Hey, I used to comment on nails! Then I realized I was being a jerk and how hard it is to work with a dog that does not like nail trims. Elsa has fairly ghastly nails- some short where we got a cut and others super long. We're working really hard to associate nail trims with good things and it's going to take a long time. If she never has perfectly manicure nails, oh well. As long as she can walk and they aren't hurting her I'm not going to worry about it any more.


I dig it. Maisy came to me as the kind of dog who goes into an all-out panic when her nails are trimmed. Progress has been extremely slow, I can finally handle her feet and toes without her freaking out but forget about actually trimming her nails without chemical assistance. Fortunately scootering keeps them worn down enough that I don't worry about them too much, although they're longer than I'd like them to be. 

For some reason I'll never understand, nail trims send Squash into a state of intense silliness... similar to post-bath zoomies.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

sassafras said:


> I dig it. Maisy came to me as the kind of dog who goes into an all-out panic when her nails are trimmed. Progress has been extremely slow, I can finally handle her feet and toes without her freaking out but forget about actually trimming her nails without chemical assistance. Fortunately scootering keeps them worn down enough that I don't worry about them too much, although they're longer than I'd like them to be.
> 
> For some reason I'll never understand, nail trims send Squash into a state of intense silliness... similar to post-bath zoomies.


Jonas shuts down and I don't like that, so I'd rather work really slow and have him possibly be pretty OK with nail trims in the end. I don't like sending him running up the stairs and refusing to come near us for a while. Magpie used to snap if you tried to cut her nails and now she is pretty good about it, but it took a long time. 

Shambles rolls onto his back and has the best time. That guy LOVES nail trims.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

hamandeggs said:


> Whoa, no need for anger. I specifically said if the nails were causing problems (i.e. had never been done) I think it would be OK. In this case, the dog's nails have been done and aren't even that long, so in THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION it would be unnecessary.
> 
> And BTW, while convenience is one reason for spaying/neutering, it's hardly the only one.


No anger here..... Just pointing out the irony of advocating Spay and Neuter but damning "quicking" nails in most cases..... It is all about convenience.


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