# New Food by Wysong: Epigen. Wow or Nay?



## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

Wysong apparently has a new food that will be released in a few days.

It is called Epigen.

Apparently, it is 60% crude protein, 11% fat, etc etc.
Protein content is amazingly high, even when compared to Orijen or Evo. This is literally 50% more protein than Orijen.

Another claim they make: Starch free, but it does contain vegetable protein (Isn't that like Halo...?)

What do you guys think of this food?
I think the concept is pretty good but they seem to be stacking the protein percentage high by using vegetable proteins, and they are rotating around different vegetables, including corn too. And they are using poultry fat 

Is Wysong a good brand?
What do you guys think of this food?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I've always thought Wysong foods, in general, were overhyped and definitely overpriced. It looks like a decent food. I'm not thrilled with the use of vegetable proteins, but as the 4th ingredient, after 3 good meat ingredients, it's not too bad. I can't imagine what they'll charge for it  . I signed up for the free sample, though  .

Ingredients (for those who don't wish to Google): 
Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Giblets, Vegetable Protein (consisting of one or more of the following: Potato Protein, Rice Protein, Corn Protein, Wheat Protein---note: they say they'll rotate the plant proteins because variety is healthier, and that all plant starches have been removed), Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of Vitamin E), Eggs, Yogurt, Flax Seed, Apple, Beet Pulp, Plums, Inulin, Dried Wheat Grass Powder, Dried Barley Grass Powder, Krill Oil, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Oregano Extract, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis), Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

ETA, oops, forgot this part:
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS ****
Crude Protein (Min) .......................................................... 60.0%
Crude Fat (Min) ............................................................... *11.0%
Crude Fiber (Max) ........................................................ ..... 3.5%
Moisture (Max) ................................................................ *12.0%
Taurine (Min) ..................................................................... *0.4%


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I think the brand is alright.

I definitely would not feed this food though. Even 40% protein is quite a lot for me. I don't believe in that much protein in a dry kibble because a lot of dogs seriously don't drink enough water to process it.

I stick to 30+ and I would feed 40% as well but never 60. That's just too much and since the fat content is so low, it seems a little unbalanced to me. 

With a raw diet, the dog can be eating almost all protein because there's lots of water in the food and the dog doesn't need to drink extra water to help digest it.

I like 15% or more fat as well.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

The 11% fat does seem low. And I can't find an explanation for the * next to the fat, moisture, and taurine levels. In fact, on the website you can't see the *, they only showed up after I cut and pasted.


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## littlemary (Jun 24, 2010)

I would say a definite NAY!! Grains are not necessary in dog food, they are used as fillers and to bump up the other ingredients on the list. Grains cause problems not because of the starch, but because of the gluten in wheat, rye, barley, and oats. Just like humans, dogs can be gluten-sensitive, or even full-blown celiacs. I should know, my little Jack Russell Terrier is a celiac. She cannot tolerate any gluten, so we always go grain-free, even with treats. Left untreated, the gluten can cause permanent damage to the intestines. If any dogs out there are experiencing chronic diarrhea or even vomiting, you may want to go grain-free, but removing the starch has nothing to do with anything. This dog food is probably ridiculously over-priced, and would be like poison to a gluten-sensitive dog.

By the way, Wysong is now trying to discredit freeze-dried raw dog food, saying their TNT (true non-thermal) procedure is better. I wouldn't trust this company as far as I could throw them!!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Strauss can't even handle 32% protein of the TOTW Prarie formula.

I'm pretty sure this would kill him.


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## Captain Spaz (Mar 12, 2012)

"would be like poison to a gluten-sensitive dog."

Just wondering what in there would be bad for grain/gluten sensitive dogs. I read the ingredient list and I didn't see any kind of grain whatsoever. 
My dog is grain-sensitive and I just ordered him a 2lb bag to try, but if there's something bad in there I didn't notice I won't give it to him.

(unless the chicken based one has different ingredients? I ordered the Venison as he's allergic to chicken)


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

"Rice Protein, Corn Protein, Wheat Protein"

All grains. I don't know about rice and corn but the gluten present in wheat is wheat protein. This is mislabeling in the extreme. A dog sensitive to gluten would react to the "wheat protein" if not the other two. If the problem is starch then the food is fine.


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## Captain Spaz (Mar 12, 2012)

Ok, yeah the Venison one actually has zero grains in it, I didn't know the chicken one would be so different, so I was just curious. 
Thanks for the reply!


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

Venison variety DOES contain chicken...chicken fat.


Buster would not do well on these foods. They all contain one or more of his allergens...corn, wheat, soy, chicken and lamb.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Captain Spaz said:


> Ok, yeah the Venison one actually has zero grains in it


Yeah, but potato protein is the second ingredient :/. I don't like it being that high on the list. And, yeah, it does have chicken fat, so I hope your dog is only allergic to chicken meat and not the fat.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

Epigen™ Venison Formula Ingredients: Venison Meal, Potato Protein, *Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of Vitamin E)*, Apple (source of soluble fiber), Beet Pulp (prebiotic source), Plums (source of antioxidants), Blueberries (source of antioxidants), Inulin (prebiotic), Krill Oil (source of omega-3 fatty acids), Taurine (amino acid), Oregano Extract (antioxidant), Sage Extract (antioxidant), Rosemary Extract (antioxidant), Probiotic Microorganisms (Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis), Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

Chicken fat is third ingredient. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't mixed tocopherals made from soy or something similar?


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Gluten actually *is* the protein of grain. So "wheat protein" might as well be called "pure wheat gluten."


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## Captain Spaz (Mar 12, 2012)

LilasMom said:


> Epigen™ Venison Formula Ingredients: Venison Meal, Potato Protein, *Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of Vitamin E)*, Apple (source of soluble fiber), Beet Pulp (prebiotic source), Plums (source of antioxidants), Blueberries (source of antioxidants), Inulin (prebiotic), Krill Oil (source of omega-3 fatty acids), Taurine (amino acid), Oregano Extract (antioxidant), Sage Extract (antioxidant), Rosemary Extract (antioxidant), Probiotic Microorganisms (Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis), Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.
> 
> Chicken fat is third ingredient. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't mixed tocopherals made from soy or something similar?


I looked it up on dogfoodadvisor.com. It didn't mention if it was soy or not but it is a natural preservative. Could probably do more research to see exactly what it is. Here's the quote from DFG.com "Natural preservatives are usually made from anti-oxidants… like vitamins C or E. You’ll see them printed on a dog food’s ingredients list using some form of the word “tocopherol” or “ascorbate”. -http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/red-flag-ingredients/dog-food-preservatives/


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## Captain Spaz (Mar 12, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Yeah, but potato protein is the second ingredient :/. I don't like it being that high on the list. And, yeah, it does have chicken fat, so I hope your dog is only allergic to chicken meat and not the fat.


It seems that he's okay with chicken fats, just not the actual meat. 
I know what you mean about the potato protein being high on the list, but wysong was one of the few dry foods I found that didn't contain a lot of MSG, which is why I wanted to give it a try. Although I am re-thinking it because of the super high protein content.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

Captain Spaz said:


> I looked it up on dogfoodadvisor.com. It didn't mention if it was soy or not but it is a natural preservative. Could probably do more research to see exactly what it is. Here's the quote from DFG.com "Natural preservatives are usually made from anti-oxidants… like vitamins C or E. You’ll see them printed on a dog food’s ingredients list using some form of the word “tocopherol” or “ascorbate”. -http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/red-flag-ingredients/dog-food-preservatives/


Just did a small amount of research, and apparently mixed tocopherals can come from wheat, soy, sunflower seeds, and other cereal grains like barley, rye, rice, and nuts.


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## Captain Spaz (Mar 12, 2012)

LilasMom said:


> Just did a small amount of research, and apparently mixed tocopherals can come from wheat, soy, sunflower seeds, and other cereal grains like barley, rye, rice, and nuts.


*Very* good to know, as I try to stay away from grains. Thanks for doing that additional research!


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

No problem! The only thing I couldn't figure out was whether or not they would still bother someone/dog with a grain allergy since they are refined down so much.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

working in a a kennel I see a lot of dogs on differnt food...on the whole I have not been impressed with the condition of most Wysong fed dogs, HOWEVER, the dogs I know on the Epigen specifcally are in AWSOME condition, they look as great as the raw fed dogs.


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