# Confused..Nature's Variety Raw INstinct?



## Jenne5 (Mar 14, 2007)

I have two dogs that I recently switched from Nutro Natural to Innova because it is a better food. My goal was to get them on the Evo..since it is grain free. The lady at the feed store told me the Evo is very strong with a lot of protein. She told me to add it to the Innova..and see if they handle it well. She also said with some dogs, it gives them bad gas.

So I have been feeding the Innova and trying the Evo mixed in . My lab tolerated it fine...but my golden retriever mix who is about 6 months has the worst smelling gas I have ever smelled. 

I talked to the lady again and she says she tells people to try the Nature's Variety Raw Instinct food and they have all did well with that . So I am now going to mix it in with the Innova and hopefully get them on a grain free food..However, I was looking at the ingredients and chicken meal was the first one..I thought a "Meal " ingredient was something you didn't want in the first ingredient? Then it is tapoica, chicken fat ,Alfalfa meal Vitamins(it lists all the vitmains) and then the meats..like chicken and turkey and then freeze dried meats..

Does anyone know about this food? Is it a good food? Or should I just leave them on regular Innova?

Thanks in advance


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

There's nothing wrong with chicken meal. "MEAL" has had all moisture removed, so it is supposed to be denser in protein anyway.



> Contrary to what many people believe, meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) are not inferior to whole, fresh meats. Meals consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the proper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. They have had most of the moisture removed, but meats in their original, "wet" form still contain up to 75% water. Once the food reaches its final moisture content of about 9-12%, the meat will have shrunk to sometimes as little as 1/4 of the original amount, while the already dehydrated meal form remains the same and you get more concentrated protein per pound of finished product.


From http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts


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## Jenne5 (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks for letting me know ...I have had numerous people..tell meal that Meal as a first ingredient means it is not a great food. Thanks for clearing that up..

Anyone use this food and how do they like it?


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

First off, Innova Evo is a great food but it is NOT recommended for large breed puppies because of the calcium content--may make them grow too big too fast which could cause joint problems. This is from www.dogaware.com

Evo is a new grain-free diet that is very low in carbs. The ingredients look very good, but I have heard reports of dogs having problems on this diet, especially when used long term (problems include excessive water drinking in a number of dogs, probably due to the high protein content, and dry coat in a few). I think it is better used as part of the diet, or as part of a rotation of foods, rather than fed all the time. Do not feed to puppies under 6 months old unless mixed half and half with protein sources (meat, eggs, dairy, etc.) due to the high calcium content. Now offering a variety of different versions, including reduced fat. 
This is from www.woodhavenlabs.com
Chicken Meal - chicken which has been ground or otherwise reduced in particle size. 
Some of the things to look for 

You want to see a meat such as Chicken or Lamb as the first ingredient. Not plain old Meat or Meat Meal which can be anything including road kill, but Chicken or if you prefer a Lamb based dog food, Lamb. Most nutritionists prefer a chicken based diet as dogs tend to digest chicken better than lamb. 

I would prefer to see Chicken Meal as the first ingredient, but I wouldn't throw out a food based on the fact that Chicken (without the meal) is the first ingredient
www.woodhavenlabs.com


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## Jenne5 (Mar 14, 2007)

*Confused ..*

Wow thanks for the great info on Innova Evo..The lady at the store told me it was fine to feed my puppy. Anyhow, I ended up switching to the NAture's Variety Raw Instinct...it is also grain free..I am feeding my dogs<one lab, one golden retriever puppy about 5 mos. old> the raw instinct and that is it.

Since I read your post, i am wondering if that is the best way to go...I am assuming it is similar to the Evo. My lab is over 100 pounds at 20 months..so I would say he is a large breed dog. I have also noticed they are now getting flakes in their coat..so again It looks like i will need to switch.?? 

The raw instinct was 45 dollar for the bag..which is fairly expensive and we go through some food . 

So i am completely confused..the lady at the dog food place told me i want to get my dogs off grain. But Evo and Raw Instinct may not be right for my dogs..

What else do you do? Should I look into Timberwolf? Or try Canidae? They aren't grain free foods though right?

Thanks for all your help..I feel like banging my head into a wall at how confusing this is becoming!!!


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## opokki (May 30, 2006)

I'm not convinced that grains are "bad" for dogs....

Timberwolf has a grain-free formula called Wild & Natural but if you're concerned about feeding such formulas to growing pups you might want to consider something else until they are both adults.

I personally use the Timberwolf Organics Black Forest formula, which is not grain-free, and have been very pleased with it for over 4yrs.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

Perhaps you should try the Timberwolf Organic Venison, Lamb or Bison formula, get a small bag and see how it goes. Nature's Variety Raw Instict is definitely a premium dog food but I still would not give it to a large breed puppy (the 20 month old is fine) for the same reasons I would not give Evo. If the Venison or Bison formula (whichever you choose) does not work (I think it probably will) you will need to change to a fish formula but try one protein at a time (I believe the Raw Instinct is Chicken and Turkey so try something else). If you are concerned about their coats being flaky---give them each a 1/2 can of tripett a few times a week, I have a poodle and his coat is really nice, not dry or brillo-e at all as some poodles can be.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Grain free seems to be the fad food these days. EVO and Raw Instinct have high ash and protein levels that honestly worry me. They should especially not be fed to large breed puppies.

So the logic behind grain free foods is that grains aren't a natural food for dogs to eat. BUT, since kibble needs carbohydrates to hold its shape (otherwise it would crumble), another carb source is always used. It's no more natural for a dog to eat potatoes than it is for them to eat brown rice.  Plus, grains aren't all bad- brown rice is very nutritious; white rice is easily digested, etc. The grains I would stay away from are wheat and barley. Both are common allergens and high gluten grains.

If you're looking for a really affordable, high quality food then I recommend Canidae.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

--and corn


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

Ginny01OT said:


> Perhaps you should try the Timberwolf Organic Venison, Lamb or Bison formula, get a small bag and see how it goes. Nature's Variety Raw Instict is definitely a premium dog food but I still would not give it to a large breed puppy (the 20 month old is fine) for the same reasons I would not give Evo. If the Venison or Bison formula (whichever you choose) does not work (I think it probably will) you will need to change to a fish formula but try one protein at a time (I believe the Raw Instinct is Chicken and Turkey so try something else). If you are concerned about their coats being flaky---give them each a 1/2 can of tripett a few times a week, I have a poodle and his coat is really nice, not dry or brillo-e at all as some poodles can be.


Hmmmnnn what is Tripett?


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

Tripett is canned green tripe--which is the undigested insides of cow--or lamb--or other grazing animal. I get the canned lamb green tripe that has menhaden fish oil and chondroitin and glucosamine and when I can get up to the store a few towns a way I get the real stuff (pew tho). I am sure you are thinking, "...what is Green Tripe and why devote a whole website to it?". The answer to that is simple, because it is the best, most natural food you could feed your K9 friend. It has been a well known secret of top breeders/kennels of performance dogs for years. The following excerpt from Juliette de Bairacli Levy's book, The Complete Herbal Book for the Dog, says it best: 


"I would suggest breeders make good use of such flesh foods as the following:...paunches of all animals (the raw, uncleaned paunches of healthy grass-fed animals can be fed with much benefit to all breeds of dogs). I learned this from a gypsy in the Forest of Dean: this man had bred many famous greyhounds, and he told me that such fare was the finest of natural food tonics." 

Tripe is the stomach of ruminating animals. These animals (i.e. cattle, buffalo, sheep, deer, goats, antelope, etc.) are classified as being four-footed, hooved, cud chewing mamals with a stomach that consists of four chambers. The four chambers of such a stomach are known as the rumen, reticulum, omasum and the abomasum. The food the animal eats (i.e. grass, hay) is swallowed unchewed and passes into the rumen and reticulum where it is then regurgitated, chewed and mixed with saliva. It is again swallowed and then passed through the reticulum and omasum into the abomasum, where it is then further broken down by the gastric juices, amino acids and other digestive enzymes. Yummy! 

So how can something so disgusting, be so good? These same gastric juices and enzymes not only aid the animal in digestion, but also aid the dog in digesting and efficiently utilizing his food. The amino acids are necessary for muscular development and, the other gastric juices, I believe, are the best cleaner for their teeth! 

www.greentripe.com

I get it thru Petfooddirect.com or Sitstay.com (the canned, Tripett)
If you do a search it will come up!


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

Ginny01OT said:


> Tripett is canned green tripe--www.greentripe.com
> 
> I get it thru Petfooddirect.com or Sitstay.com (the canned, Tripett)
> If you do a search it will come up!


Very good to know Ginny, I'd never heard of it before, Thank You. I'll order a case next week. Ella, at 9 weeks, has no coat issues as of yet, but this seems an excellent nutritional booster for a few spoons a few times a week.

Katherine


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

What type of dog is Ella? I am almost sure she will just love it and it is really good for her (the menhaden fish oil in the lamb tripe doesn't hurt either).


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

Ginny01OT said:


> What type of dog is Ella? I am almost sure she will just love it and it is really good for her (the menhaden fish oil in the lamb tripe doesn't hurt either).


Ella is our Black Lab puppy. So, the honest truth here, how bad does it smell? Will it give her really stinky gas? When I feed it to her will my whole house smell awful? I suppose I'd do it for her anyway, but I am a bit of a clean freak and really like my house to smell clean. Ella's already learning to get her feet wiped at the door. ( Yes, some people do say I have issues  )


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## SunSiberians (May 7, 2007)

Meal is good - meat by-products are bad. 
Innova Evo is what I feed - it is high in protien and I personally feel that it's best for active dogs or I can imagine they can get over weight. I love Evo though and will use it the rest of my doggie days.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

The canned does not smell bad at all. When I get the real stuff (hard to get, a pain in the neck to cut up and wow it smells)--the house will smell while I am cutting it up but once it is bagged and frozen, the smell is gone. You don't have to worry about the canned---after you open it put it in a zip lock bag and refrigerate it, you won't even know it is there. Because tripe is so good for their digestive system Riley gets really no gas at all, rarely anyway and when he does it isn't stinky. It is great stuff and the canned is really easy--give like a quarter of can after dinner---(I do it every night but you can do it every other night)--so a can will last you, for now, a week. Riley at 50 lbs gets about a half a can a night after dinner, daily


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

I dont see a problem with grain free foods, nor do i think its a "fad" food.
I wouldnt reccommend EVO and foods like that for growers, they even state it on the website.
I also dont see a huge problem with "meal" ingredients, but myself prefer to stick to actual named meats. But thats me.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Wimble Woof said:


> I dont see a problem with grain free foods, nor do i think its a "fad" food.


We can just agree to disagree then.  Almost every brand is jumping on the bandwagon of "grain free". But they just replace grains with another carb source like potatoes, which are no more natural for a dog to eat. Plus, some foods like EVO have sky high ash levels (12.38%) which can cause issues also. 

I think they're foods best left for working and very active dogs- not the average pet.


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

That is why I still believe raw is the best, no matter what type dog.


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## jemery (Jun 5, 2007)

Ginny01OT said:


> Tripett is canned green tripe--which is the undigested insides of cow--or lamb--or other grazing animal. I get the canned lamb green tripe that has menhaden fish oil and chondroitin and glucosamine and when I can get up to the store a few towns a way I get the real stuff (pew tho). I am sure you are thinking, "...what is Green Tripe and why devote a whole website to it?". The answer to that is simple, because it is the best, most natural food you could feed your K9 friend. It has been a well known secret of top breeders/kennels of performance dogs for years. The following excerpt from Juliette de Bairacli Levy's book, The Complete Herbal Book for the Dog, says it best:
> 
> 
> "I would suggest breeders make good use of such flesh foods as the following:...paunches of all animals (the raw, uncleaned paunches of healthy grass-fed animals can be fed with much benefit to all breeds of dogs). I learned this from a gypsy in the Forest of Dean: this man had bred many famous greyhounds, and he told me that such fare was the finest of natural food tonics."
> ...


I've been reading your threads on Nature's Variety & we've just this week become the owner of a 3 mos. standard poodle pup the breeder has been feeding him Nature's Variety & cut up raw chicken parts. He's use to these & loves them, should I consider switching?


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## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

I also have a standard poodle!!! Where did you get yours? Male or female? what color? Aren't they great!! Anyway, Riley eats the NV raw patties, some Timberwolf Organics kibble and I give him 1/2 can tripett (lamb) after his dinner meal, he is thriving!!!!


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