# IBD and veterinary hydrolyzed protein diets?



## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

I've been struggling with my dog's on again and off again diarrhea which just seems to pop-up sporadically every other month it seems. He had a bad vomiting episode back in September that resulted in a endoscopy and a biopsy. Results were consistent with IBD. Since then, I've been trying to manage it with a mixture of limited ingredient commercial kibble (Natural Balance, Acana) and home cooked meals, but he would still get diarrhea flare ups every other month. At this point, I feel like I need a solid game plan to figure what he can and cannot eat once and for all (How do I even know if protein intolerance is contributing to his IBD flares?).

I've had some discussions with my vet and at this point he is very strongly recommending the veterinary hydrolyzed protein diets (Royal Canin, Hill's) but I've looked at the ingredients list and ... I'm psychologically hesitant to feed it to my dog (especially, if it's going to be for the rest of his life). But maybe I should just suck it up if it is indeed the best option for my IBD dog...?

I was thinking that I can use it as a balanced foundation for a thorough elimination diet. Say, 12 weeks of vet kibble or until well formed stool and then add protein challenge on top for 2 weeks with a 1 week wash out in between?

Should I add other supplements, like omega 3 fish oil for its anti-inflammatory properties? Anything else I should consider asking my vet about for IBD? Literature that I can read up on? Thanks!


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

I've had dogs well over 20 years now. I first started out ignorant about dog food (fed bill-jac and Iams), then discovered raw and fed that for years. I was convinced all kibble was evil and would certainly kill your dog. Then my raw fed dogs began developing problems (digestion, like yours). I would let them go on and on with diarrhea and vomiting because I was told this was "detox" and normal. Meanwhile they suffered...

I tried some of the expensive foods, Orijen, Acana, Solid Gold, Fromm. While I like Fromm, I have a poodle that is just super sensitive. The only thing he tolerates well, has a happy tummy and NO overnight diarrhea in his crate or all over the floor after a meal... science diet! I use the canned adult foods, beef, chicken, and turkey. He has perfect digestion on it. 

I used to call it Science Death! I used to tell everyone how absolutely awful it was! But here's the thing. You can believe in "ingredients" and "holistic" and "natural" all you want (I really, really, really tried! Raw sent him to the e-vet!). I tried the natural, holistic kibbles for him. Nope. I just recently tried an organic food. Nope. 
But believing in the "best" foods is not necessarily the best thing for the dog, letting him go on and on suffering tummy troubles.

If you feed h/d, he won't turn into a mutant, die instantly. I say, try it. Give it a good 3 months. How's he doing then? If he is finding relief I would stick with it. 
Quality of life is certainly worth whatever perceived trade-off there is. For Jack, this means, no belly misery. And when his belly hurts he whines and shakes in pain. His diarrhea is unpredictable, he'll be chilling on the sofa with me, start shaking, dash for the door and not make it in time for me to get up and open the door. 

OR, he eats science diet, has a perfectly quiet tummy and a much happier life. 

NO supplements, just the h/d.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It's worth trying the prescription foods. But if it only happens once every other month, I feel like it can't really be due to the foods he eats every day, you know? If he couldn't handle the food, wouldn't he have trouble all the time? Is there anything that changes every other month?


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

having gone through a digestive issue long term in one dog and two dogs with yeasty ears.... I gauged my dogs progress by how long between episodes,, How the intensity of those episodes were lessening, and how quickly my dog recovered from each episode..

Healing is exactly the reverse of how it started,, If you feel you are on the the right track..... then give it some times... keep the body balanced and healing ..


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## Luxorien (Jun 11, 2014)

fourdogs makes a number of excellent points.

If your vet recommends the diet, go with the diet. You could always get a second opinion just to see if there's something the vet might be overlooking, but anyone with a veterinary degree is probably a better source of information than the majority of dog food websites.

The reason vets recommend those prescription diets is because they know what is in them, they know it's a consistent product, and they've read the research on whether that particular disorder is responsive to such a diet change. Just because the ingredients don't match some arbitrary internet standard of what dogs "should" eat doesn't mean the food will harm your dog. There is NO evidence that there is anything wrong with these diets.

I would not supplement anything unless the vet okays it. But supplementation usually is not necessary in dogs (or humans for that matter) unless they have a condition that causes a deficiency in that particular nutrient. Not saying supplementation is necessarily harmful, but it's really important to work _with_ the vet because a supplement may interfere with the treatment plan he is trying. For instance, if you supplement a high-fat oil, and the vet has carefully chosen a diet with lower fat...

As for reading and more info: this is a pretty specialized topic, so some of the sources you'll find might be a bit technical. I've listed a few things I was able to find at the end of this post. Out of curiosity, I reread the chapter in the one nutritional textbook I own that deals with "Nutritional Management of Gastrointestinal Disease." I won't pretend to understand all of it, but it does say that these disorders usually have genetic basis, that it can be triggered by something in the food, and that even after the offending trigger is removed, the body's response to that trigger may linger. That seems like an important piece of information to me because it might explain why the dog would still have problems even if the offending ingredient is no longer present in the diet. It also says that diets with proteins that are easier to digest (those hydrolyzed protein diets your vet mentioned) have been shown effective (I can get you the citations if that is of interest). There's a lot of nuance here - different diets are recommended for different forms of IBD. So, depending on which types of cells are inflamed or which part of the intestine is affected, different treatments might be indicated. Something to keep in mind.

It sounds like the elimination diet is a treatment that is commonly used in conjunction with the hydrolyzed protein diets, so I don't see any reason why you couldn't do as you suggested and add other proteins one by one until you find the culprit. Your vet can probably offer some guidance in that area.

I hope you find a solution that works for your dog and gives you peace of mind.

Sources of more info:

Veterinary Practice News has an article called "Steroids and Diet Best For Treating Canine IBD"

Peteducation.com has an article called "What is inflammatory bowel disease?" with some references at the bottom. There is a similar article on veterinarypartner.com.

If you can get it, the text I bought is called _Canine and Feline Nutrition_. There is another one that is available for free online called _Small Animal Clinical Nutrition_. It has a chapter on IBD. I haven't had a chance to go over it, but it might have more information for you. If you google the title, it comes right up.

There are, of course, the usual suspects of "natural" health and nutrition but I would personally stay away from those sources because they tend to suffer from a lack of evidence.


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## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

fourdogs said:


> If you feed h/d, he won't turn into a mutant, die instantly.


I think in my head, that was the doomsday scenario that I was scared of. Where he will just die of malnutrition or diabetes from all the carbs. I'm glad you took the time and effort to respond to me. I think it will be worth a 3 month trial just to see how he does on it and we can go from there. Thank you.




Willowy said:


> It's worth trying the prescription foods. But if it only happens once every other month, I feel like it can't really be due to the foods he eats every day, you know? If he couldn't handle the food, wouldn't he have trouble all the time? Is there anything that changes every other month?


I feel like that's the million dollar question that I'm trying to figure out. It's also part of the reason why I am hesitant go the hydrolyzed protein diet because I'm not convinced that proteins are the major cause of his IBD flares. The first time I tried an elimination diet, he was doing fine for 2-3 week spans on all the major proteins: chicken, pork, beef, turkey, fish. I've told my vet this and he was ok with me going back to the commercial diets. Now with this most recent round of diarrhea, he was having chicken at the time, so the vet suspects chicken is causing it but wanted him to go on hydrolyzed protein just to be safe. In the mean time, I'm keeping a very detailed log of his food intake and poop status and see if I can figure out a trigger pattern.



PatriciafromCO said:


> I gauged my dogs progress by how long between episodes,, How the intensity of those episodes were lessening, and how quickly my dog recovered from each episode..


His first digestive episode started last September with lots and lots of vomiting and not being able to hold food down. His stomach looked like a water balloon and everyone thought it was stomach foreign body obstruction, even though nothing obvious showed up on x-ray, hence the endoscopy and biopsy and the IBD diagnosis. The last major vomiting episode was in January but that was much milder. Now it's just off and on diarrhea sometimes with mucus. So the symptoms seem like they are getting better, but I feel like I'm always on edge, waiting for the next episode to happen. I don't want to keep seeing him stressed out from trying to hold it when I'm not home either.

How did you go about managing your dog's digestive problems?


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

I worked with the vets since he was a puppy for 3 years.. The thought of the times, was "he's a GSD" The breed is genetically prone to Digestive problems.. so he was just destine live this way. I was feeding Proplan and Euc as they were the said best High end dog foods of that time ??????? it just got worse for lack of understanding what was happening to him long term with each upset. So the picky eating, and full blown upsets with vomiting and diarrhea that would happen periodically over time.. finally came to a point of constant inflammation to damage in the linings in his GI track.. to a level that his body resources couldn't compensate calming it down. The GI track lining was so scared and continuously raw after 3 years of his body trying to deal with it , and no relief from being assaulted.. He had a full blown pancreatic attack.. bloated up with gas, vets couldn't get him to release the gas so they did surgery to release the gas, decided to tack his stomach down as a precaution after seeing all the damage and on going trauma to the limning. Again not having the ideas and dietary procedures they have today sent him home to us and said there is nothing more they could do for him. 

I learned that when an upset happens the body puts out the fire sooth things over... but irritation to the lining, tenderness is still there, and the body works at healing it.. but over time there is no time for healing between upsets, and the inflammation is still there from past upsets, and the body is overwhelmed so the episodes become more violent, more frequently, last long before they calm down... because of old inflammation and the limning still being raw... from past upsets..... so it becomes a situation that it doesn't matter what you feed them the body will save it's self and expel what brings harm in that moment, by getting it out of the body one end or the other.. Even if your on the right track with the food your feeling... the body will still have a bad reaction to it... because it's the limning not the food,, so you can't let upsets be your only factor on how you gauge your on the right track or not.

I started off with white rice and poached chicken breast in water.. not a balanced diet but under the circumstances of Major not expected to live much longer.. balanced meals were not a priority. his sense of well being perked up quickly, he was more of his happy self. we were just happy to have that , not thinking anything long term of it.. after days turned into weeks, and then several months to realize he didn't die, he was actually looking like he was getting better.. I still didn't understand, I still didn't get it. and I put him on Canidae dry dog food like I had the rest of the dogs,, it was a new food, had * DIGESTIVE enzymes * simple ingredients and he continued to thrive and get better .. eventually with home computers and the internet becoming more available .. I finally found the information I never knew I was missing.. I did try Major on raw but he vomited it up couldn't handle it.. so I tried the cooked meals like he had done so well on,, and he did great, didn't try to put him back on raw until over a year on cooked meals.. and even then he was still sensitive to raw fat, like chicken skin, lamb was too fatty for him.. so I kept him lean proteins like bison and skinless chicken and just kept it the same food ingredients that worked for him not changing them.. 

He still had episodes at the beginning of the next 3 years of his life,, they were still violent I was rushing to the ER and sit and wait until they looked like they were passing that I would come back home... I started realizing that there was a pattern and started keeping a detail journal.. really detail journal... what I fed, when I fed, how he was doing after each meal , what time and visible signs of distress, what level, when did it pass, what his poop was.. and that is when I could see he was getting better, there was more distance between violent episodes. that his body handled them faster, there were little upsets that were more frequent, but he handled them faster. no more missing meals, no more picky eating ( because he was still trying to deal with the previous meal upset inflammation) his poop was better no more mucus , still soft,, but healthier.. and then good days and weeks with solid poops.. 

It's hard on us to let go of chronic illness experiences with the dogs.. we see the worst and easily overlook small signs of healing.. the Daily Journal is very helpful.. Sitting down and having a long talk with your vet is always a good thing. talk about this food and ask why it helps and what it helps so you can make a decision if it will do more then what your doing right now to make the change over . The body is going to heal at the same pace either way when your on the right track. I brought Major in at 10 years old to get his senior hip and elbow x rays. and they were so surprised to see him they thought he had died long before after releasing him years ago. It takes a long time for the body to completely break down, it takes just as long in little ways for the body to fully heal too... No magic wands but the body is always healing even when we can't totally see it.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Trying the hydrolyzed proteins for a month or two might be exactly what he needs. The thing is, when your body is reacting to something, the reaction itself can take on a life of its own. You can end up reacting to things you never normally react to. I've discovered this with my own allergies. I'm allergic to dairy proteins, certain artificial fragrances, nickel, penecillin and bees. Now the pcn and the bees is a life-threatening, swell up and die type allergy. The other three are far less serious. What I found, though, is that when I stopped consuming dairy, the fragrances and nickel allergies calmed down a lot, too. I had gotten to the point where being within several feet of a person wearing perfume could cause me to break out in hives, which makes going out in public very difficult. Once my body healed up from constant dairy exposure, that went away, and now I have to actually put the fragrance on my skin to get a reaction.

So I'd do the science diet for a while and see how it goes. Is SD the best long term? For most dogs, no. But, is McDonalds a good idea long term? Heck, no, but if my choices are food containing dairy proteins or McDonalds I know doesn't, I'm going McDonalds. Short term, that is the best choice for me. Now, it could be that SD long term is the best for your dog, that's possible, but I think a month or two might let things heal enough to allow for some better choices.


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## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

PatriciafromCO said:


> so it becomes a situation that it doesn't matter what you feed them the body will save it's self and expel what brings harm in that moment, by getting it out of the body one end or the other.. Even if your on the right track with the food your feeling... the body will still have a bad reaction to it... because it's the limning not the food,, so you can't let upsets be your only factor on how you gauge your on the right track or not.


Thank you so much for your detailed response. I'm so glad to hear that Major is doing so well despite his rough start. I really appreciate the insight and it's always encouraging to hear a success story. 



Amaryllis said:


> Trying the hydrolyzed proteins for a month or two might be exactly what he needs. The thing is, when your body is reacting to something, the reaction itself can take on a life of its own. You can end up reacting to things you never normally react to.


Yes, think you are right about that. I think my experience with him has been similar to what you are describing. I think I need to get him to a few solid months of good digestive health before I start another elimination diet or something. The vet diet might just be able to get him to that point so I'm not getting a whole bunch of false positives. Thanks!


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