# Dry dog food for teeth? Wasted effort...



## Wisdombestowed (Feb 18, 2007)

Dry dog food, for the most part, does nothing for the health of your dog's mouth. It will only clean the tips of the teeth, nothing more. There are only a few diets that clean the teeth up to the gum line. Hill's t/d diet and Royal Canin makes a similar product. I'm sure there are others out there but here's some information to chew on (shameless pun intended).
Dry food, when eaten by a dog, either fractures quickly with minimal tooth insertion and is quickly swallowed or gets swallowed whole. How does this clean the teeth, well it doesn't. It cleans the very tips of the teeth which have no effect on oral hygiene. What matters is the gum line and most kibble won't do anything in that area. In fact, it CAN irritate the gum with sharp fractures if it's very dry.
Diets like t/d from your Vet do an amazing thing... it forces the tooth to go all the way through before fracture. The food is a soft abrasive which will clean up to the gum line! We have had dogs that would normally require dentistry once a year on the t/d diet with CET chews (Chlorohexidine impregnated rawhide) and they have Hollywood smiles and better than normal gums! No cleaning, no extractions, nothing. There hasn't been even one exception, it's just that good. Now if you aren't interested in spending the little extra for those items I implore you to do 2 things. 1st, use rawhide chews. The bone shapes are great. It's a soft abrasive that cleans very well. The better ones have anti-septic solutions impregnated. The 2nd thing you need to do is stop spreading the myth that dry dog food is better for their teeth. Wet food has no impact other than staining the teeth. There is no difference in tartar at the gum line.
I prefer dry dog food for Dog's because of the smell more than anything else and most dogs wolf down wet food. Big kibble bits work the best but supplement their food with a chew toy!!! It's like a tooth brush that they can use themselves  .
I'm going to post another thread about perceived dog apatites. There is another huge myth about their eating habits that needs to stop!


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## britishbandit (Dec 11, 2006)

There is no myth that dry food is better for teeth than canned. Whether the dry food cleans the teeth or not, wet food does stick in between the teeth and gumlines. Anything moist and pasty is going to get into the nooks and crannys more than a dry food, that maybe you aren't seeing. Raise 2 dogs, one on dry food, one on canned and lets see some pics by the time they reach 10. But......if you take care of your dogs teeth, get them cleaned and checked out on a regular basis, it doesn't matter which you use. Point is, many dog owners neglect their dogs teeth until a problem arises.

However, the only food that actually helps keep teeth healthy and clean is RAW.


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## merrow (Feb 18, 2007)

when teddy was on bakers as dryed kibble with moisted chunks in i dont know if thats what u mean well his teeth her horried i moved him on to burns with the harder kibble and his theeth looked loads better within a short amount of time and left a small build up around his gums i then moved him on to raw and i gotta say for a few ponds a week for chciken wings is well worth i for ur dog teeth even if u just give a few each week as a treat u can see the diffreance each week 
i used to try to brush his teeth but having a small mouth it was hard and brushing alone wouldnt remove the build up of tater any way and i will always recomend a good bone any day for perly whites


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## Wisdombestowed (Feb 18, 2007)

britishbandit said:


> There is no myth that dry food is better for teeth than canned. Whether the dry food cleans the teeth or not, wet food does stick in between the teeth and gumlines. Anything moist and pasty is going to get into the nooks and crannys more than a dry food, that maybe you aren't seeing. Raise 2 dogs, one on dry food, one on canned and lets see some pics by the time they reach 10. But......if you take care of your dogs teeth, get them cleaned and checked out on a regular basis, it doesn't matter which you use. Point is, many dog owners neglect their dogs teeth until a problem arises.
> 
> However, the only food that actually helps keep teeth healthy and clean is RAW.


I don't agree. Having worked in the veterinary field for some time now, there is no difference between a GOOD wet food and GOOD dry food. Poor of either will result in poor results.
The canned food doesn't stick in the teeth like you think. Small bits of dry have found their way under the gum and imbetween teeth because the dog CHEWS that food. Wet canned food for the most part is chewed far less before being swallowed. Like I said, the only difference is COLOR. The type of food has less impact than quality of food when it comes to oral hygiene. That is my point. We see the same results with feline diets. Wet vs dry, no difference other than the color of the tops of the teeth. The gum line and tarter is never any different. Genetics and quality of food play the major role, not if it's dry or wet!


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

Genetics or not... I have 4 dogs all but one has been on raw for some time now and I have never brushed their teeth. Chewing bones has kept them nice and clean. Even reversed some bad staining on one of them. IMO no canned or kibble food "scrapes" that well, and would cause some plaque build up, which if neglected would cause some more serious problems.


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## britishbandit (Dec 11, 2006)

I don't need to be a vet to see the proof in the dogs I have owned. Even in the past when I've given wet food as a treat (never with my current dogs though), just the one feeding with wet food left gunk all over their teeth, which I promptly brushed away.

Obviously we disagree on this, which is fine, but you won't sway me into thinking there is no difference, working in a vet office or not...LOL. Besides the fact a really good vet is a rare find these days. Plus nutrition and diet suggestions aren't one of their strong points to start with.


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## Captbob (Feb 2, 2007)

Wisdombestowed said:


> Dry dog food, for the most part, does nothing for the health of your dog's mouth. It will only clean the tips of the teeth, nothing more. There are only a few diets that clean the teeth up to the gum line. Hill's t/d diet and Royal Canin makes a similar product. I'm sure there are others out there but here's some information to chew on (shameless pun intended).
> Dry food, when eaten by a dog, either fractures quickly with minimal tooth insertion and is quickly swallowed or gets swallowed whole. How does this clean the teeth, well it doesn't. It cleans the very tips of the teeth which have no effect on oral hygiene. What matters is the gum line and most kibble won't do anything in that area. In fact, it CAN irritate the gum with sharp fractures if it's very dry.
> Diets like t/d from your Vet do an amazing thing... it forces the tooth to go all the way through before fracture. The food is a soft abrasive which will clean up to the gum line! We have had dogs that would normally require dentistry once a year on the t/d diet with CET chews (Chlorohexidine impregnated rawhide) and they have Hollywood smiles and better than normal gums! No cleaning, no extractions, nothing. There hasn't been even one exception, it's just that good. Now if you aren't interested in spending the little extra for those items I implore you to do 2 things. 1st, use rawhide chews. The bone shapes are great. It's a soft abrasive that cleans very well. The better ones have anti-septic solutions impregnated. The 2nd thing you need to do is stop spreading the myth that dry dog food is better for their teeth. Wet food has no impact other than staining the teeth. There is no difference in tartar at the gum line.
> I prefer dry dog food for Dog's because of the smell more than anything else and most dogs wolf down wet food. Big kibble bits work the best but supplement their food with a chew toy!!! It's like a tooth brush that they can use themselves  .
> I'm going to post another thread about perceived dog apatites. There is another huge myth about their eating habits that needs to stop!


Maybe the teeth will look better on the Hills food, but I bet the rest of the dog won't fare so well, since it is a pretty low quality food.


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

Most people I know who buy Science Diet T/D use it for treats, not as their main food.

I feed SD Small Bites, and I couldn't ask for a healthier dog. Great skin and coat. People always say how well groomed he looks (maybe not today after playing the snow), and I really don't do much grooming at all. His fur is just really nice, silky and shiny. Good solid small poops, too. Ridiculous amount of energy.

I'm sure there's better quality foods out there, but he was eating it when I got him, likes it, and is doing well on it, so I see no reason to change. Besides, if a better food gives him more energy, I'll need to eat it too, because I wouldn't be able to keep up with him. 

I feed SD to my cats, too. I've tried other food, and it's what they do best on and like best. They flat out refused to eat one of the more highly recommended foods. I tried switching them over, and they just left all the new bits behind. Another made my one cat have poop all over her butt. Not enough fiber in it for her. If feeding my cat a "low quality" food gives her a shinier coat and makes it so I don't have to wipe her bottom, I'm all for it.


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## MagicToller (Jan 4, 2007)

> Genetics or not... I have 4 dogs all but one has been on raw for some time now and I have never brushed their teeth. Chewing bones has kept them nice and clean. Even reversed some bad staining on one of them. IMO no canned or kibble food "scrapes" that well, and would cause some plaque build up, which if neglected would cause some more serious problems.


I agree. I've been to vet offices that are ASTOUNDED at the condition of the dog's teeth - and they ask how many times I brush their teeth a week. My answer? Never  Their faces almost drop to the ground, and they are even suspicious of me bleaching teeth.

..I guess it was hard to believe what raw diets can do.


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

Slight threadjack here sorry....


> I guess it was hard to believe what raw diets can do.


Yup, and im sure thats why my vet was ticked that I switched and basically tried to scare me out of it!!! ( roll eyes) I bet it bugs them more that im not there every month anymore with all sorts of easily preventable problems either!


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## MagicToller (Jan 4, 2007)

> Yup, and im sure thats why my vet was ticked that I switched and basically tried to scare me out of it!!! ( roll eyes) I bet it bugs them more that im not there every month anymore with all sorts of easily preventable problems either!


Oh God.. I couldn't agree more. The practices in my area are the snobbiest, most money-hungry Vets you have ever SEEN. You should have SEEN their faces when I mentioned raw diets or vaccine schedules. HAH.

"You feed... _what_?"

or my favorite..

"Oh noooo.. Science Diet and Purina are FANTASTIC foods! They are REALLY nutritionally complete! Maybe you should switch off that raw stuff."

"Food allergies? Those don't exhist."


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## merrow (Feb 18, 2007)

lol tell me about it, it was rubbis food like that whiched caused so many health problems for my dog, but the thing is that selling the food and the vaccinations all the time gives them so much eaxtra money, if u do ur reserch its amazing what u really need to go to the vet for lol 


xxx


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## MagicToller (Jan 4, 2007)

> but the thing is that selling the food and the vaccinations all the time gives them so much eaxtra money, if u do ur reserch its amazing what u really need to go to the vet for lol


Yup. It's all about the money and extra profit. It's amazing how much profit (40% actually from the Hill's Company) is being gained from selling "Vet Recommended" (Ofcourse it is.. they're getting paid to sell it) and over vaccinating.


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## cjac&mac (Feb 12, 2007)

We seem to get off topic very easily. Not one vet is the same as another. Some vets believe Raw IS the way to go, others absolutly deny it. As for Hills Prescription diets and Medi-cal, CaptBob is right, they probably do wonders for their oral health, but the rest of the dog...who knows. Vet foods are designed to be problem specific, ie. gastro formulas, oral care formulas, etc. they are supposed to help cure the _problem_ at hand. Then the focus of the dogs overall health comes later.

From working in the Pet industry for 10+ years, I know that most kibble pet foods are designed to crumble under pressure. Finding a formula that helps with oral health will have kibbles that are designed to allow the tooth to _penatrate_ it in hopes of reaching their gum line. Raw food as mentioned before will also help with oral hygiene as it has ground up bone to act as enough of an ebrasive. 

However with all that being said, you can not guarantee your dog is going to chew every piece of dental kibble and not swallow some whole, and not woof down it's raw without chewing some of it. So practice good oral health. Give your dogs things to chew on (THAT ARE SAFE), brush your dogs teeth, regardless of the food it's eating (and I don't mean everyday), and visit your vet at least once a year to make sure you're on the right track.


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

I let the dogs do their own grinding of the bones... funner for them, and so much better for them too!
Regardless though, i do keep a close eye on teeth ( mostly to ensure none have chipped or anything) and am yet to see plaque or decay! Im just not about to brush their teeth when they dont need it.


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## Wisdombestowed (Feb 18, 2007)

MagicToller said:


> Oh God.. I couldn't agree more. The practices in my area are the snobbiest, most money-hungry Vets you have ever SEEN. You should have SEEN their faces when I mentioned raw diets or vaccine schedules. HAH.
> 
> "You feed... _what_?"
> 
> ...


That's a real shame that you keep going to vets you don't like.
My Father has been in the business as a vet for over 25 years, same practice, and 1st in the area to adopt the 3 year DHPP vaccine from Fort Dodge.
I can't believe there is a Vet that would deny food allergies but when you go to the fancy buildings where vets are more worried about paying off the facility then you'll find compromised ethics.

Listen up people. Dog's that are on Science Diet, Purina, Alpo, pretty much every name brand will get a GREAT diet. They live long and healthy lives not JUST because of what they eat, but also because of how they live. Those ultra fancy diets with premium ingredients aren't required for a dog to live a healthy happy active lifestyle. My old Golden Retriever lived to be 16 years old on Purina and he died of old age. We never push Science Diet food's on our clients unless it's obvious that it will save them money and the patient discomfort. Example: T/D is cheaper in the long run then paying for dental cleanings, extractions, and various dental work later in life. We always recommend that Dog's have name brand dry food avail and we always recommend brushing first. If the owner says honestly that they just can't do it, T/D is then recommended as treats or a full fledged diet to reverse some of the damage. Rinse and CET chews are also tools we use to PREVENT people from spending $$$ on dental work. When you've been working in the industry for over 30 years you get a good idea of what works and what doesn't just based on the vast number of cases.

As for over vaccination, don't even get me started. Some of you need to step back and look at your priorities from your pet's perspective.
A healthy dog in NJ that goes outside and is in a brush area should be given a DHPP every 3 years to prevent some of the worst diseases, a 3 year Rabies... do I even have to explain why, and a 1 year Lyme vaccine, especially if your dog tests postive to exposure of the Lyme germ. Over TESTing is another story. We don't bother testing patients that are on a heartworm preventative year round. When we do test for Lyme exposure we use an inexpensive 3DX snap test which gives us heartworm and lyme results with a couple others of less importance. When you add up the vaccination costs they pail in comparison to what some of you pay for food that you think is necessary. I consider stopping death vs diarrhea a much more important aspect of my Dog's lives. "Over" vaccination is what has saved THOUSANDS of Dog's lives and keeping on that regimen you protect your Dog for $28/3 year. Seems like a no brainer, then again what would I know. I'm just here to start trouble  . No seriously, I love Dog's and am a fan of good Dog owners. Not listening to your vet because of $$$ means you need to look for a different Vet that is in your price range and somebody you can relate to. Look for the Vet's with only a couple Doctor's and EXPERIENCE. Even if their prices look higher, you'll probably find that you spend LESS a year with them than some fancy new facility that is itching to try out their latest ultrasound technology. Not every hospital needs to have an ultrasound machine, or a fancy dental cleaning machine. Basic cleaning is fairly straight forward and for the Love of all that is great with Dog's... think like them and stop personifying their Love. They are Dog's, companions in life, loyal friends... NOT PEOPLE. They don't speak our language but don't take a nerves Dog and tell me he has a sensitive stomach with a certain food. Have your Vet come to that conclusion after you've presented him/her with ALL of the facts. Use ever last minute of your appointment to give them the facts so that they can tell you a professional opinion! The internet has been a blessing and a curse to all that is right in this world. It brings balance but at the same time can swing FAR left of logic. Yes Vets make money on selling food but those with ethics, like my father, do not push it unnecessarily.
Sorry for the rambling, I'm in a rush.



MagicToller said:


> Yup. It's all about the money and extra profit. It's amazing how much profit (40% actually from the Hill's Company) is being gained from selling "Vet Recommended" (Ofcourse it is.. they're getting paid to sell it) and over vaccinating.


Get your facts straight. The mark-up isn't fixed, it's suggested retail and no, it isn't 40%, it actually varies between 30 and 45%. Keep in mind that for the most part, Vets are trying to do nothing but good for you and your pet. If you're experiencing "bad" help then look elsewhere for help... and I don't mean an online forum. This forum is great for 2 things. It brings exposure to issues that aren't normally brought up in a Vet's office and it also provides client product feedback that is again missing in a hospital environment.
You should explain the over vaccinating in another thread where I can reply with specifics. There is a reason for vaccinations and a very real reason why most people feel they aren't necessary. Hint, it has to do with human nature not liking to pay for something they don't see is wrong... yet... until it's too late. Clients pay $$$ for cures to symptoms and then complain about $ for prevention of such diseases. I'd really like a chance to reply in more detail so please start a new thread.


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## Elijah (Dec 30, 2006)

> I'd really like a chance to reply in more detail so please start a new thread.


 As for the constant re-vaccinating,chew on this thread for a while. You can keep your Science Diet, Alpo and Purina as well. Too much has already been said about these "great" brands to not have to say anymore. Have fun now, ya hear?

http://www.dogforums.com/13-dog-health-questions/4680-do-you-re-vaccinate.html

Just for the record, The overuse of boosters, i.e., annual vaccinations, can cause adverse post-vaccination events such as auto-immune disorders and transient infections.
Adverse reactions to conventional vaccinations can be immediate, or shortly after or even 45 days later. and possible afflictions include: seizures and a variety of auto-immune diseases including those affecting the blood, endocrine organs, joints, skin and mucosa, central nervous system, eyes, muscles, liver, kidneys and bowel.

Childhood immunizations are not repeated annually so why would you continually re-vaccinate a dog for Parvo or other diseases every so often? there's enough poisons/toxins in their system without all this junk being pumped into them continually just because a vet deems it necessary. Some are, most are not.

According to research in recent years, many of the yearly vaccinations are unnecessary and that protection can be lifelong and that the procedures of annual vaccinations carries risks.

Evidence shows the duration for vaccines associated with leptospirosis, rabies, distemper, parvo virus, various flu strains etc., are a minimum of seven years. Further evidence shows that the immune system of dogs mature fully at six months and any modified live virus vaccine given after that age produces immunity that is good for the life of the dog.

If another similar vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens so that there is little or no effect - the dog is not boosted nor any more memory cells induced.

http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html


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## Captbob (Feb 2, 2007)

Wisdombestowed said:


> Dry dog food, for the most part, does nothing for the health of your dog's mouth. It will only clean the tips of the teeth, nothing more. There are only a few diets that clean the teeth up to the gum line. Hill's t/d diet and Royal Canin makes a similar product. I'm sure there are others out there but here's some information to chew on (shameless pun intended).
> Dry food, when eaten by a dog, either fractures quickly with minimal tooth insertion and is quickly swallowed or gets swallowed whole. How does this clean the teeth, well it doesn't. It cleans the very tips of the teeth which have no effect on oral hygiene. What matters is the gum line and most kibble won't do anything in that area. In fact, it CAN irritate the gum with sharp fractures if it's very dry.
> Diets like t/d from your Vet do an amazing thing... it forces the tooth to go all the way through before fracture. The food is a soft abrasive which will clean up to the gum line! We have had dogs that would normally require dentistry once a year on the t/d diet with CET chews (Chlorohexidine impregnated rawhide) and they have Hollywood smiles and better than normal gums! No cleaning, no extractions, nothing. There hasn't been even one exception, it's just that good. Now if you aren't interested in spending the little extra for those items I implore you to do 2 things. 1st, use rawhide chews. The bone shapes are great. It's a soft abrasive that cleans very well. The better ones have anti-septic solutions impregnated. The 2nd thing you need to do is stop spreading the myth that dry dog food is better for their teeth. Wet food has no impact other than staining the teeth. There is no difference in tartar at the gum line.
> I prefer dry dog food for Dog's because of the smell more than anything else and most dogs wolf down wet food. Big kibble bits work the best but supplement their food with a chew toy!!! It's like a tooth brush that they can use themselves  .
> I'm going to post another thread about perceived dog apatites. There is another huge myth about their eating habits that needs to stop!


Almost sounds like a commercial for T/D. 



Wisdombestowed said:


> That's a real shame that you keep going to vets you don't like.
> My Father has been in the business as a vet for over 25 years, same practice, and 1st in the area to adopt the 3 year DHPP vaccine from Fort Dodge.
> I can't believe there is a Vet that would deny food allergies but when you go to the fancy buildings where vets are more worried about paying off the facility then you'll find compromised ethics.
> 
> Listen up people. Dog's that are on Science Diet, Purina, Alpo, pretty much every name brand will get a GREAT diet. They live long and healthy lives not JUST because of what they eat, but also because of how they live. Those ultra fancy diets with premium ingredients aren't required for a dog to live a healthy happy active lifestyle. My old Golden Retriever lived to be 16 years old on Purina and he died of old age. We never push Science Diet food's on our clients unless it's obvious that it will save them money and the patient discomfort. Example: T/D is cheaper in the long run then paying for dental cleanings, extractions, and various dental work later in life. We always recommend that Dog's have name brand dry food avail and we always recommend brushing first. If the owner says honestly that they just can't do it, T/D is then recommended as treats or a full fledged diet to reverse some of the damage. Rinse and CET chews are also tools we use to PREVENT people from spending $$$ on dental work. When you've been working in the industry for over 30 years you get a good idea of what works and what doesn't just based on the vast number of cases.


My uncle was 82 and smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day, so that proves smoking is OK and doesn't affect your health.... Give me a break!!!!! Junk dog food is junk dog food. The canine cancer rate is over 50%. If you don't think the cruddy food most people feed their pets to save a few cents is a big part of that problem, you are living in a dream world.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I'll be the first to say that my vet is my best friend with my animals. We have used the same vet for over 25 years. Maybe I just got lucky on the first shot.
My vet has occasionally encouraged the use of Science Diet and T/D in both my cats and dogs. After a year or so he only suggested it in cases where it was the best choice for the particular ailment (urinary stones in all of our male cats due to our ground water supply, dental kibble "as treats" for our dog with the worst dentition I've ever seen...after spending $300/year on dentals and asking him for a list of ALL the alternatives). 
On my last visit a few months ago he talked to me about reducing the number of vaccinations in our pets. He was polling his long-term clients if they would go along with the 3-year program, rotating rabies and multi-vaccine in different years. But he is still very concerned about seeing patients every year just to keep the relationship with animal and owner as well as preventative care. I think reducing the vaccines is a great idea (and also some vets are getting a handle on not giving the same vaccination doses to a great dane and a chihuahua) and I am happy to bring my pets in annually for a check up. We do it for ourselves and our kids, why wouldn't we do it for our animals?
I've never had the desire to feed raw but I have heard him discuss it intelligently with other clients. Manufacturer's reps are told to come back after office hours are over, and maybe he will have time. Clinic hours are for patients only. Several times he has seen one of our animals on a moment's notice that we are coming in. And several times, even on off hours, he has dispensed advice over the phone for an emergent issue. He has seen us through emotional euthanasias, caring for every animal under the sun that my daughter can find, treated foster dogs that weren't his responsibility but he knew they wouldn't get prompt attention if I had to wait for a busy shelter vet, and answered endless questions and phone calls from me...always a patient man with a smile on his face. One of these days he'll retire and turn his practice over to one of the younger docs that are now working with him. I am grateful for all the years of service and hope that the other vets will follow his lead and bring increasing knowledge to the clinic.
Find a good vet, pay him promptly, treat him with respect, and value his education and wisdom.


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## Chikadee (Feb 27, 2007)

2 areas that most vets aren't trained in:

Canine Nutrition
Canine Behavior

Don't believe me? Ask the vets in your area. I'll bet that most of them haven't been trained in these two areas. I did a poll out of 20 vets in the Colorado Springs area and only 3 of them received training in one of these areas, not both. None of them had both. 2 of the three had training in nutrition and only one in behavior.

The vet I actually go to has had training in neither of these two areas, but I like her just the same. She knows my animals and the only major problem I had with one of my dogs was when Rhea was bitten in the face by another dog and had to have stitches, so I'm really not there very much, except for the puppy's shots and Rhea's rabies every 3 years (I don't do DHPP anymore for her) We have an unspoken agreement: I keep my dogs heathly and she doesn't comment or berate me on what I feed (I feed raw btw).

A word of warning about the lyme vaccine. When I first got my 4 year old they gave her the shot WITHOUT my permission (we don't go to that vet anymore) and now whenever they test her for lyme she always has a false positive. So now if I ever were to move (which is a high possibilty cause my husband is AF) I will have to convince the new vet that no, she does not have lyme, she tests false positive every time. My vet says many of the dogs she sees also test false positive after the vaccine so the clinic I go to offers it on a need-only basis. I also know someone whose dog tested positive for lyme, (her dog had also had the lyme shot) and they treated the dog for lyme when in reality he had cancer so the cancer got worse cause it wasn't being treated because it was thought the dog had lyme. So yeah, that vaccine scares me to death and I will never give it to any of my dogs again. Not giving my 4 year old lyme and DHPP isn't to cut costs, but because I see DHPP as unnecessary for an older dog (the puppy of course will get it until he's 2 years) and lyme as dangerous. 

Anyway, back on topic, when I was growing up we always fed our dogs kibble and we had to bring them in for teeth cleanings every year. I've never had to bring my 4 year old in for teeth cleaning and she has absolutely no tarter on her teeth whatsoever. I don't brush her teeth, I just let the raw diet do the work. The 9 week old however is still on kibble (I haven't had a puppy in over 8 years and I'm not sure how to feed raw to a pup) and I have to brush his teeth every couple of days. I just don't see how kibble helps keep teeth clean. As for the cheaper brands I would like to bring up that feeding cheaper brands can actually be more expensive than a good quality kibble... with the cheaper brands your dog isn't proccessing much in them, therefor your dog actually needs to eat more of the food so you end up buying more food, more often. I bought a 15 lb bag of food for my 9 week old almost 3 weeks ago and we still haven't made much of a dent in the bag and he's at a great weight (maybe a little higher than he should be though). Sure it cost me a bit more, but it's lasting a long time. 

Hope that wasn't too long of a post or too off topic. I'm new here and still trying to get in the swing of things


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## ZAR (9 mo ago)

Wisdombestowed said:


> Dry dog food, for the most part, does nothing for the health of your dog's mouth. It will only clean the tips of the teeth, nothing more. There are only a few diets that clean the teeth up to the gum line. Hill's t/d diet and Royal Canin makes a similar product. I'm sure there are others out there but here's some information to chew on (shameless pun intended).
> Dry food, when eaten by a dog, either fractures quickly with minimal tooth insertion and is quickly swallowed or gets swallowed whole. How does this clean the teeth, well it doesn't. It cleans the very tips of the teeth which have no effect on oral hygiene. What matters is the gum line and most kibble won't do anything in that area. In fact, it CAN irritate the gum with sharp fractures if it's very dry.
> Diets like t/d from your Vet do an amazing thing... it forces the tooth to go all the way through before fracture. The food is a soft abrasive which will clean up to the gum line! We have had dogs that would normally require dentistry once a year on the t/d diet with CET chews (Chlorohexidine impregnated rawhide) and they have Hollywood smiles and better than normal gums! No cleaning, no extractions, nothing. There hasn't been even one exception, it's just that good. Now if you aren't interested in spending the little extra for those items I implore you to do 2 things. 1st, use rawhide chews. The bone shapes are great. It's a soft abrasive that cleans very well. The better ones have anti-septic solutions impregnated. The 2nd thing you need to do is stop spreading the myth that dry dog food is better for their teeth. Wet food has no impact other than staining the teeth. There is no difference in tartar at the gum line.
> I prefer dry dog food for Dog's because of the smell more than anything else and most dogs wolf down wet food. Big kibble bits work the best but supplement their food with a chew toy!!! It's like a tooth brush that they can use themselves  .
> I'm going to post another thread about perceived dog apatites. There is another huge myth about their eating habits that needs to stop!


When it comes to knowing what pet food to buy, keep in mind the following.

Most pet food companies produce junk.
Most pet food reviews are rubbish, because often they don’t use objective benchmarks, or they simply don’t know what they’re talking about and recommend higher priced brands thinking those are good.
Most site extolling the virtues of organic pet food or higher-grade pet natural pet food don’t understand the average pet owner would like to give good food, but it has to be practical and not break the bank.

I find cooking real meat and vegetables and keeping a batch of pre-cooked food is the best option for pet health and your wallet. If you want to supplement with dry food for convenience, use this litmus test. Buy the smallest packet of a dry food brand. Put out some in a bowl in an area where there are ants. Come back later to check if the ants have filled the bowl. If they have, the food is good for your pet. If they haven’t, the food is crap. That’s it. The easiest scientific way to know if a pet food brand is worth your money. And no need to rely on reviews that pontificate rubbish with a real clue of the ingredients in the food.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

This thread is from 2007. Please feel free to start a new thread or participate in current discussions, but I'm closing this one to further replies.


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