# Crate training, good or bad?



## Elliesmom (Sep 19, 2009)

I'll be honest, I am a new dog owner and I am learning as I go! 

I am thinking about buying a crate for my 5 mo. old puppy, Ellie. We just adopted her from a local shelter a week ago. 
I have heard a lot of good things about crate training. Some of you are probably thinking, "Why doesn't she have a crate for Ellie already?!" To answer that I'd have to say, I don't know the appropriate use for a crate. Do I put Ellie in the crate when I need to go grocery shopping then let her out when I come home? Do I keep her in the crate all night for bedtime? Does crate training help with potty training? Should Ellie be in the crate for most of the day and only let out to potty, eat, and play?

I guess people use crates for many different reasons, I just don't want to scar my dog and have her thinking she is only allowed to exist in a crate.
Plus I need to know the appropriate size crate for Ellie. I have heard the crate should be big enough for the dog to stand up and turn around in, thats all. Is that correct?

Haha it's ok to tell me if I am over thinking this or if I worry too much! I would love some advise on this crate training subject!


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## amdeblaey (Jun 27, 2009)

I am a very big supporter of crate training. I have two labs, a three year old, and a 8 month old, and they are both crate trained. It helps potty training-dogs don't like the mess in the area where they sleep. Dogs are den animals, they need an enclosed area to sleep in, or to go to if they feel threatened. My three year old hardly gets put in his kennel now-he has earned the freedom of the house, but the door is always open, and he will go in there when he's tired, or when he's sick of Loki jumping on him. But he will crawl in there when we are getting ready to leave, and then after we leave, I'm sure he gets out and lays on the bed. My puppy is locked in there if I leave the house for anything. When he gets older, then he will have trial periods-if I need to run to the gas station, then I will leave him out and see what he gets into it, and see if he is ready for the freedom yet. Freedom can be intimidating for dogs, then they start chewing on things, and you come home to a trashed house. And some dogs are just fine without crates. It can also be a safety issue, if you do come home to a trashed house, you may not know what your dog ate.
Your not going to scar your dog, as long as you don't leave her in there for 12 hours. I always learned the rule of thumb for how long to leave a dog in a crate is, you take their age, in this case, 5 months, add 1, she can stay in the crate for 6 hours. And yes you are correct, you want her to be able to get up and turn around. I put toys in their kennel-big enough she won't choke on it though.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Elliesmom said:


> Do I put Ellie in the crate when I need to go grocery shopping then let her out when I come home? Do I keep her in the crate all night for bedtime? Does crate training help with potty training?


Yes.



Elliesmom said:


> Should Ellie be in the crate for most of the day and only let out to potty, eat, and play?


Technically yes--except for the "most of the day" part. The pup must be crated whenever you are unable to directly supervise her, but should not be left to languish for hours on end. Pups need to be doing stuff.


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## Elliesmom (Sep 19, 2009)

Thank you so much that is very helpful!

It didn't occur to me that dogs need to earn their freedom of the house, that makes since though. If she is a good girl then she can stay out while I am gone, if she cannot behave she stays in the crate while I am gone. 

I think it will be a relief to know she is safe in her crate while I am gone for a bit. 

What about food and water? should I put it in the crate with her while I am out? or wait until I get back home, depending on how long I will be gone?

I have had her a week do you think it will be hard on her to just now be introducing her to crate training? I guess I'll just have to make it a good experience for her. 

Thanks for the help! Ellie and I greatly appreciate it!


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## amdeblaey (Jun 27, 2009)

Me personally, I don't put food and water in their crate, I'm not sure about anyone else. My dogs aren't free eaters, they get feed twice a day, so I just make sure I'm home-which I usually am. And if you are trying to potty train, water probably wouldn't be a good idea. She can have water as soon as you get home and let her out. If you are going to be gone for a couple hours, an alternative thing you could do is put some treats in a kong, or peanut butter, and give that to her before you leave.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

A 5 month old puppy should take to the crate just fine. Just be sure to progress at a pace that doesn't cause her to be afraid of the crate or view it as punishment. I never put food or water in the crate. A pup should not be in there long enough to need it, and it makes it more likely that she will mess her crate.


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## apoirier594 (Aug 30, 2009)

amdeblaey said:


> Me personally, I don't put food and water in their crate, I'm not sure about anyone else. My dogs aren't free eaters, they get feed twice a day, so I just make sure I'm home-which I usually am. And if you are trying to potty train, water probably wouldn't be a good idea. She can have water as soon as you get home and let her out. If you are going to be gone for a couple hours, an alternative thing you could do is put some treats in a kong, or peanut butter, and give that to her before you leave.


I totally agree with her. 
Thats pretty much what I do, and it works well.

But I actually let my puppy roam my room when I am gone, it is totally puppy proofed. He chews but I only have his toys out.
And make sure when you are not home his collar is off, b/c he could easily choke on something, and anyways it only takes a second to put it back on.

Oh and yea you do only like said before, only want the crate big enough for her to stand,lay down, and turn, b/c if it is to big she will probably go potty, and most dogs don't like to sleep in there pee or poop.


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

Its also good to have your puppy used to this for a couple other reasons. When you have to go to the vet to have her spayed or if she ever has an emergency that requires an overniter at the vet, she will be used to it and wont freak out. Also good if you ever get your dog groomed. There is almost nothing worse than a dog not crate trained, it can be very hard on them. GOODLUCK!!


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## LadyD (May 10, 2009)

My 18 month old Boston now only goes in the crate when I need to confine him for a very short time or to sleep at night. In fact, somtimes when he's really sleepy he tries to open the door himself LOL I have to keep the door closed because he'll drag his bed all over the place. Crate training is the way to go IMO.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> Elliesmom said:
> 
> 
> > It didn't occur to me that dogs need to earn their freedom of the house, that makes since though. If she is a good girl then she can stay out while I am gone, if she cannot behave she stays in the crate while I am gone.
> ...


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm the opposite.

I have never had a dog in a crate, though I don't see it as a bad idea. I have never had a need to and my dogs have always done just fine.

My current GSD likes the leather sofa just fine.. 

Certainly I see it as a good idea for traveling.

That said I'm thinking about fostering, and I would crate train any foster dog I think. Seems everyone promotes it these days so it would be an advantage if an adoptee was crate trained.

It's not a mandatory thing for a well behaved happy and healthy dog though.


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## Ty_Tyler (Sep 17, 2009)

I did crate training with my male since I had him from the time he was a pup. I am glad I did the crate training. He liked his crate and it helped keep him safe when I was out of the house. I wouldn't leave him in for more than four or five hours at a time. I never used it as a place for him to be afraid of...to send him if he did something wrong. 

I sometimes wonder if he would like a crate nowadays even though he is 8 years old. He seems to like places where he can hide and have his space.


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## bully (Sep 16, 2009)

crate training should be the only way to raise a puppy. I'm tired of hearing people think it's bad for a dog (like a jail cell).


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

TxRider said:


> It's not a mandatory thing for a well behaved happy and healthy dog though.


I had several dogs who weren't crated, and they all turned out fine. Having seen both sides of it, though, I wouldn't get a dog if I didn't have a crate set up and waiting for when he came home on Day #1.

I just find it easier and better on many levels.


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## AllieMackie (Sep 21, 2009)

You got lots of good advice already. I'm in the middle of raising my first crate-trained puppy myself. My last dog was never ever crated. As a result, the first year with him (1-2 years old, he was a rescue) was hell, always coming home to something destroyed. He learned to behave in the house alone with time, but ugh. He also did not fare well at the kennel or the vet, anywhere where he had to be contained in a smallish area. Finn on the other hand, apparantly calms very well at the vet and kennel.

Finn has been crate trained from the day I brought him home at 7 weeks, and I've never regretted it. He goes in there during the day when I need to focus on work, and sometimes in the evening when I go out. At ten months now, he does not have run of the house yet, but gets longer periods of unsupervised time, and he will still happily return to his crate for several hours at a time, no problem. He naps or works on his Nylabone.

I highly recommend taking a portion of Ellie's meal, loading up a Kong with it, topping it off with a bit of peanut butter or canned food, and freezing it. Give it to her in the crate for a yummy treat that is also a meal, and the frozen aspect is nice on their gums and slows them down in eating it. I always have 2-3 kibble-packed Kongs in my freezer, Finn usually gets at least one a day, sometimes two on the days he needs to be in his crate for 8-9 hours. I think the Kongs are part of why Finn loves his crate so much.

As others have said, introduce her slowly. click/treat for interest, click/treat for going in, click/treat for you closing the door for a moment and then opening it, etc. Work your way up, leaving her in for 15-20 minutes at a time at first with a yummy snack or toys. Most dogs with proper introduction to their crates learn to like them, some even love them. Finn sometimes voluntarily sleeps in is crate, or takes his chew bones in there to work on them.

Hope that helps!


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## Elliesmom (Sep 19, 2009)

Thank you for the advise everyone! I bought a crate the other day!

The food/treat filled kong sounds like a good idea! 

I am having a little trouble getting Ellie to go into her crate willingly. She will only go in there on her own for a few seconds to a minute and during that time she gets yummy treats and lots of praise but then she gets out ASAP. 
I think I made it worse today as well. This morning Ellie got into her crate on her own and I thought "great the perfect time to get a shower!" I locked the door to the cage after giving her a treat and lots of lovin and then I got cleaned up. I let her out of the crate as soon as I could but ever since this morning she is weary of her crate. She even pulled her bed out of the crate so she could lay on it.

2 steps forward, 4 steps back! haha. The Kong toy just might be the key to keeping her WILLINGLY in her crate longer!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

You use what works for your pup. I have a retriever so I used to toss a ball or bumper into his crate, and let him come right back out with it. It is physiologically impossible for my dog to not chase the ball--he had to go in to get it. His initial reluctance to enter on his own lasted all of about 6 seconds.

You find ways to gradually lengthen the time the pup stays in there. Eventually you will have to close the door. The pup may whine to come out, but you want to wait 'til she stops complaining for a few seconds before opening the door. In this way she learns that: a) nothing bad happens when the door closes, and; b) complaining doesn't earn her freedom.

It may take time for your pup to learn that just because you are out of her sight, you haven't abandoned her forever.


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## AmyBeth (Jun 26, 2009)

I use to not believe in crates, the only time I used them was when a dog had just had a procedure done and had to stay calm for several weeks, or when a dog had puppies but the kennel was for a 80 lbs dog and she was 8 lbs with 5 puppies and a round bed with sides in there. Then I adopted Tanner who likes to chew when bored, so I couldn't leave him at home by himself. I bought a kennel and started training him for, although it didn't take much. Now 3 yrs later he loves the thing and spends most of his time in there with the door wide open. All of my dogs are now kennel trianed, and they all go sleep in the kennels with the doors wide open (but they never seem to sleep in their own kennel). I do feed two of the dogs in their kennels at night but mostly because Tanner is "fat" and will eat the other dog's food. Buster is a slow eater because of his flat face and Shelby gets A LOT of food because she's a growing puppy with a very fast metabolism.


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## mintesa (Mar 30, 2008)

I got a my puppy 1 month ago almost (oops time flies). I still was not able to buy a crate  He has a puppy room when we go to work. It is quiet big, but no accidents there (ine comes home for lunch). At night he sleeps beside us. First 3 weeks we go out with him to pee at 3am. This last week he just sleeps until the morning.
I want to buy a crate though. the one we wanted got sold out. it would be good to let him get used to one, if he ever needs to be in there. During car rides we have the dog seat belt.


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## MaddieTheDog (Jun 3, 2009)

Crates===VERY GOOD.


For dogs, crates are their sanctuary. They're very comfortable in closed in spaces they feel safe in. Make sure they can see out of it, though. You may find that your dog likes to sit under desks. same thing.

However, crates used incorrectly (IE: punishment) makes it a bad place for them to go. 


Already said and done, I see, but still going to reiterate it: Slowly introduce your crate to your dog: keep the door open. Invite her in with a happy voice, throw a treat or toy in there. Let her be comfortable, door open. Praise her for going in. She'll find soon it's her space and that it's comfy. 

Definitely use it to confine her when you're out and about. She'll end up sleeping anyway. It keeps her out of puppy trouble.We never needed the crate for Maddie when we left, but we did anyway. At 5 months last September, when we got her, she was trained enough not do be up to no good. She would lay down and sleep close to the door until we arrived home. But who knows what she was like prior. She must have loved her crate before because the second she saw it, she went straight in. 

It's not to be used, according to many, for punishments like she peed or pooped inside (chances are, she wont go in her crate, dogs generally wont do that) or when doing something bad. Honestly, before I knew that, we'd sent her in her crate after an inside potty because she was well trained and would go because she was upset we'd take her half eaten toy from her and toss it in the garbage, or after she'd dig a hole outside (and we tried various other ways to have her stop. I think it finally got through to her, it's been a couple of months since she's dug). It hasnt done damage to her--still loves her crates--and she has not gone in the house since last year.

We also put Maddie in there when someone is at the door. This keeps the person safe from an excited dog who wants to jump on them or harass them when they dont want to be bothered by an animal. 


Another good thing about crates---if it fits in your car, use it on rides. Keeps your dog safe. Your dog could be up to no good, causing you to turn around and not watch the road. Your dog will not be bothering children or coming up to the front unannounced--very unsafe. Also, if you were in an accident, your crate will keep your dog confined AND much less harmed. It could save its life.

We have two crates, one store bought, one home made. We debated selling one, but I discovered the benefits of having two. If I pick up a stray and I have no clue it's behavior, if it's potty trained, if it has a communicable disease or something, I put the dog in the crate. 


Just a heads up, if you have a HUGE dog, I'd recommend using a lock and key on the crate. Big dogs that are very strong can break through the simple locks on the crates. Maddie has and so does this German Shepherd down the road that I have saved a couple of times now. 


On a final note...many also use the crates as a way to teach their dog to stay in bed at night. We used it on Maddie for a couple of nights and she got the idea. And because they won't pee in their crate, they'd hold it at night. She was used to sleeping on the bed from her foster mom's, which we dont allow, so she would get up constantly. With us, she always stayed the night without having to get up for the potty. Sometimes she'll get up and move closer to us. At first, we had a bit of a problem with it because it was new, but after talking to people on there, we realized we were over reacting and it was ok that Maddie got up. She was just changing places, not roaming the house. They may whine because they want to be closer, but ignore it and it will go away. They'll calm down and go to sleep.

Sorry to write a novel!


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## jesscot12 (Sep 24, 2009)

Hi,

A dog crate is a cage made of wire or molded plastic & Its purpose is to provide 
confinement for reasons of security,safety,housebreaking,protection of 
house-hold goods, travel or illness. I think crate training can be an efficient and 
effective way to house trained a dog.It takes some time and effort, but it is a 
proven way to help train dogs who act inappropriately without knowing any 
better.


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