# Apple head Chihuahua



## Criosphynx

What can you guys tell me about apple head Chihuahuas?

This guy just brought in a dog that looked like a mix to me, it was very very leggy and was a blue color. I asked if it was a IG mix with Chi and he told me it was a purebred applehead Chi. Thats one of those ridiculous non recognized made up varieties right? What made me mad is he made a comment about the dogs "boyfriend" being back at home. So he surely a BYB. I wanted to call him on his BS but i didn't know any facts.


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## Durbkat

A apple head chihuahua is just a deformed chihuahua that was bred to have a "apple" shaped head.


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## Pai

Applehead Chi are the 'usual' Chi. Deerhead Chi look like the Taco Bell dog. Deerheads have longer noses and not as rounded skulls.They both come from the same litters sometimes, but Appleheads are more popular in shows, though they often have a molera (soft spot in their head) and are harder to give birth to.

If it's a badly bred Chi, it won't matter what shape of head it has, though. Any badly-bred example of a breed can end up looking pretty wierd.


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## Criosphynx

Pai said:


> Applehead Chi are the 'usual' Chi. Deerhead Chi look like the Taco Bell dog. Deerheads have longer noses and not as rounded skulls.They both come from the same litters sometimes, but Appleheads are more popular in shows, though they often have a molera (soft spot in their head) and are harder to give birth to.
> 
> If it's a badly bred Chi, it won't matter what shape of head it has, though. Any badly-bred example of a breed can end up looking pretty wierd.


So they are a "better" rarer Chi? Everytime i've heard som'one say applehead they are very pompous about it, like it was som'how a important dog that god forbid i didn't recognize. This dog in question was at least ten lbs.


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## Pai

They are the 'preferred' type of Chi, yes. Deerheads are considered inferior by most show folks. Of course, both types have their fans.


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## Criosphynx

Pai said:


> They are the 'preferred' type of Chi, yes. Deerheads are considered inferior by most show folks. Of course, both types have their fans.


interesting.... thanks for clarifying for me. I just had never heard the term and suddenly the last three Chis i'lve seen have been "apple head". Didn't know if it was a gimick, like "teacup and mini" are.


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## Pai

I found a good pic of both types together for comparison:










Deerheads tend to be taller, too. It is true though, that reputable breeders will not make a big deal about their dogs being appleheads, because that's the 'correct' style of head, and it should go without saying that their dogs have it. Breeders that overuse the term all over their sites are generally BYBs.


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## Regi

I have an apple head and a deer I prefer the deer they look gorgeous and are graceful when they run they are so much like a deer ,, the apple heads are cute too but like I said I think the deer type is more attractive ... Pics of my deer chi Brindle chi and my Gray applehead.. I love them for them not because of their heads ha but I can tell you they are great dogs very protective over me I love them both The first 2 pics is my apple head Spice and Princeton my deer chi is the last 2 pics


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## Dogstar

One thing I think is interesting is thta most of the dogs illustrating 'deer' in this thread are not too terribly extreme. 

http://www.ceegees-chihuahuas.com/ - here's a show breeder of Chihs. You'll notice her dogs have heads like those described in the breed standard. 

Compare this - http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-Pets-Dogs-puppies-for-sale-CHIHUAHUA-DEER-TYPE-W0QQAdIdZ35401023
A dog being marketed as 'deer type'

I've not seen very many sound-moving deer type, probably because there are no reputable breeders breeding them.

If you like the longer legs and head? Get a minpin!0


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## Criosphynx

Pai said:


> I found a good pic of both types together for comparison:
> 
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> 
> Deerheads tend to be taller, too. It is true though, that reputable breeders will not make a big deal about their dogs being appleheads, because that's the 'correct' style of head,* and it should go without saying that their dogs have it. Breeders that overuse the term all over their sites are generally BYBs*.


Thats what i figured, seeing as the three i've seen have looked nothing alike. The applehead ones look like little so funny to me, My chi/doxie X has a long nose so i guess im just used to looking at her.



Dogstar, thanks for the links. The difference is very obvious now. The dogs on the breeder site are actually quite gorgeous!


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## Chicster

It bothers me so much how people have to put some made up label on their breed of dog just for marketing purposes and act like it makes them special. 

I have people acting all impressed and calling Cody a "Teacup Pom"... and then I can't help but explain to them that he is a standard sized Pom, and teacup is a made up marketing term  I just get so annoyed by all this micro-mini-teacup-applehead-pocket dog-blah blah blah!


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## Regi

I agree ,, IT doesnt make much difference to me I love my dogs whatever they are called teacups and applehead and deer and a toy Yorkie oh please I love them so much I kiss them all day If I was out stranded with my dogs in the dessert Im give the last bit of food to them first ha. I feel that much for them. I adore them and they make me happy just like my kids same thing. I think they are adorable


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## Pai

Dogstar said:


> One thing I think is interesting is thta most of the dogs illustrating 'deer' in this thread are not too terribly extreme.
> 
> http://www.ceegees-chihuahuas.com/ - here's a show breeder of Chihs. You'll notice her dogs have heads like those described in the breed standard.
> 
> Compare this - http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-Pets-Dogs-puppies-for-sale-CHIHUAHUA-DEER-TYPE-W0QQAdIdZ35401023
> A dog being marketed as 'deer type'
> 
> I've not seen very many sound-moving deer type, probably because there are no reputable breeders breeding them.


Thanks for the links! I was scouring Google for a really obvious Deerhead and it's actually pretty hard to find a good picture of one. =)


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## kelliope

Dogstar said:


> One thing I think is interesting is thta most of the dogs illustrating 'deer' in this thread are not too terribly extreme.
> 
> http://www.ceegees-chihuahuas.com/ - here's a show breeder of Chihs. You'll notice her dogs have heads like those described in the breed standard.
> 
> Compare this - http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-Pets-Dogs-puppies-for-sale-CHIHUAHUA-DEER-TYPE-W0QQAdIdZ35401023
> A dog being marketed as 'deer type'
> 
> I've not seen very many sound-moving deer type, probably because there are no reputable breeders breeding them.
> 
> If you like the longer legs and head? Get a minpin!0


I totally disagree with this. The deer type Chi's are VERY sound moving and actually are quite athletic. I have one and he is positively amazing. His temperment is NOTHING like a Min Pin and that's the way I like it (no offense to Min Pin lovers). 

The apple head is being bred to the extreme imo and is just one more show rring trend disaster waiting to happen. The apple heads ususally have trouble with delivery, they can have more breathing problems (their noses are simply disappearing!), they have the molera that doesn't close leaving them open to injury. 

I hate to say it, but some of the healthiest, best tempered, most athletic and sturdy little Chi's I have ever seen didn't quite meet the "desired" show ring standard.

This - as far as I'm concerned - is the perfect Chi head! Something between the show ring extreme apple head and the backyard deer type - Normal nose, slightly rounded head.


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## Chicster

Kelliope, that dog may be a "deer head" but you can clearly see that compared to the other example of a deer headed Chi... the one in your picture LOOKS like a Chi should look. I don't think the other one looked quite like a Chi. I think even though he isn't an "apple head" he looks like a standard Chi to me... very cute!

The same thing actually goes on with the Poms, except instead of "deer head" it's fox faced, and instead of "apple head" it's called a pansy or teddy bear face. They tend to favor extreme pansy faces in the show ring, and most byb Poms are foxy looking. I think Cody is a nice middle ground, He is more on the pansy faced side of the scale, but doesn't have that ran into a wall look like some of them do.


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## kelliope

Chicster, yes I agree with you. Your Pom looks right to me. I know what you mean about the show type.

It just makes me so sad when they ruin a perfectly great breed by breeding for extremes of features.


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## Criosphynx

Chicster said:


> Kelliope, that dog may be a "deer head" but you can clearly see that compared to the other example of a deer headed Chi... the one in your picture LOOKS like a Chi should look. I don't think the other one looked quite like a Chi. I think even though he isn't an "apple head" he looks like a standard Chi to me... very cute!
> 
> The same thing actually goes on with the Poms, except instead of "deer head" it's fox faced, and instead of "apple head" it's called a pansy or teddy bear face. They tend to favor extreme pansy faces in the show ring, and most byb Poms are foxy looking. I think Cody is a nice middle ground, He is more on the pansy faced side of the scale, but doesn't have that ran into a wall look like some of them do.



do you have an example of a fox face versus a non? I had som'one ask once if my pom was a "fox face". All poms look foxy to me to some degree.


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## Dogstar

Here's some pom champions - 
http://www.islandpomeranians.com/champs.html

here's some BYB poms - she doesn't market her dogs as 'fox-faced' and they're sort of in the middle of the road http://chrismarkkennels.com/Poms/poms.html

I'd put Chico closer to the baby-faced end of the spectrum, but he's still pretty moderate. And there *are* moderate dogs in the ring out there- DreamWeaver has some dogs I like. And so does GeeBear - http://www.geebearspoms.com/boys.html. 

What's confusing with Poms is the whole German Spitz issue. In Germany, Poms are registered as Zwergspitz (dwarf spitz). They're NOT interbred as a general rule. (And internationally, it looks like the English and American-bred dogs and dogs of that type do more winning.) A lot of poorly bred poms though, revert back to the larger spitz types- not just in size, but in the less extreme head features. The earliest 'Pomeranians' in the English-speaking world (pictured in Gainsborough's paintings, in the late 18th century) were actually Spitz- 30 pound companion/farm dogs, brought to England by Queen Charlotte from her native Germany. The modern 4-6 pound Pom was popularized by Queen Victoria in the second half of the 19th century, and the types have diverged since then. So while a hundred and fifty odd years separate the Poms from the Spitz, thst's not really all that long in the grand scheme of things.


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## Chicster

These are the two best extremes I could find with a quick google search.

Pansy:









Foxy:









This is Cody's dad (on the left), who he will probably look just like when he's grown. More middle of the road type face:


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## Criosphynx

hmm, interesting. Mines som'where in the middle, good thing she was a free dog....


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## anp_32

Pai said:


> Thanks for the links! I was scouring Google for a really obvious Deerhead and it's actually pretty hard to find a good picture of one. =)


i know this post is older,, but i came upon it tonight,, i have a deer head chi,, and i can show u some good pics of him


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## deege39

I was told my guy Donatello is a Chihuahua mix... He has the head of a Chihuahua, says _everyone_ who meets him. But he's all legs and has the colorings of a Min-Pin.

"applehead Chi"?? Seriously, lmao! I've never heard of that! I mean, I've heard of some Chihuahua's heads being "referred" to as "apple shaped", but by no means have I heard of that as the name of the breed. lol!


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## anp_32

Chi's are all different. The litter that my Otis came from, had 3 other pups that didn't look anything like him. He was the only tan chi, while his brothers and sisters were the color of your Donatello. Very cute btw. I can remember one pup in the litter, having a huge head,, and i remember the owners saying something about applehead.. So i guess i agree with you when saying applehead is not a breed. I mean,, otis and his sister came from the same litter,, and he's certainly not an applehead. I think people just use these names to describe the look of there pup, so people can get an idea.


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## Regi

Just needed to ask a question regarding the Pom. Sorry to pop in on your conversation but I needed to ask a pom owner. My daughter LOVES the pom so much she wanted me to buy one forever but my next door neighbor has one and has had so much trouble with barking that he has one of those shock collars on the little dog It kills me .I can hear the dog sometimes it will bark and you can hear a cry because the poor baby is zapped. I hate that I dont think my neighbor knows what hes doing with the dog. But I also held a pom for the first time at a dog place that sells them and I couldnt believe how this little dog felt like as if I was holding a puff of fur I could barely feel the body it was an incredible feeling and I secretly always wanted one but was afraid it would have a barking problem. Can you tell me honestly if they are known to bark too much? What are their bad attributes>? And what are their good attributes can anyone tell me? Thanks in advance for your reply..
I am looking to buy my 4th and last dog. I really want another Yorkie. I have 2 chis and one yorkie I really want 2 of each.


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## Dogstar

Poms can be barky, but so can Chihs and Yorkies. It's MOSTLY an issue you can fix by actually TRAINING the dog.

That said, a 'dog place that sells them' sounds like a really horrific place to buy a puppy. PLENTY of Poms, chihs, and Yorkies in shelters and rescue groups, or if you really WANT a puppy, go a reputable breeder!


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## Regi

Thank you I suppose any dog can be yappy anyway I never know who to trust and who is reputable and who isnt is so hard for me to distinguish between I am so bad at finding a good breeder. To be honest to me any dog that I take in is in my opinion rescued because I give them so much love and training and care that I think of where they could be or what kind of life they could have and I look at my dogs and they are so loving and happy. It makes my day. But I hear what you are saying I always wanted a job making sure dogs go to the right homes and are adopted I wish I could do that type of work but Im such a bad judge. It is amazing that I managed to pick out 3 really wonderful dogs and now that I think about it my Yorkie can be a little on the yappy side but I train him to stop and he stops I guess my neighbor decided that shocking the poor dog would be better. I dont think so in fact I watched a show on animal channel that they had a woman who bought and bull dog puppy and because it was so loud she bought a shock collar that actually burned through the dogs neck. YIKES.. I cant see that ,,do you know of any scary stories like that? Thanks for the response


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## Misti

Chicster said:


> These are the two best extremes I could find with a quick google search.
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> Pansy:
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> Foxy:
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> This is Cody's dad (on the left), who he will probably look just like when he's grown. More middle of the road type face:


Is the second picture really a Pom? I've honestly never knew a Pom to have such a long nose! Almost looks like it has a bit of Papillon in him, is it also a part of the breed standard? Just curious, I'm possibly looking into adopting one. Love the first picture, what a cutie!


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## Misti

Chicster said:


> These are the two best extremes I could find with a quick google search.
> 
> Pansy:
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> Foxy:
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> This is Cody's dad (on the left), who he will probably look just like when he's grown. More middle of the road type face:


Is the second picture really a Pom? I've honestly never knew a Pom to have such a long nose! Almost looks like it has a bit of Papillon in him, is it also a part of the breed standard? Just curious, I'm possibly looking into adopting one. Love the first picture, what a cutie! They all look great!


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## KarinA

Hey guys, i just was wondering what kind of Chihuahuas is my Vanilla? She looks like an apple head to me, but at the same time her nose is not that short. Here r some of her pics, so some professionals might help me


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## Dogstar

Applehead is the correct breed type. They're spposed to have the domed skull and short muzzle. Your pup is a perfectly nice PET QUALITY chihuahua. Saying applehead or deerhead as 'types' is not really correct. There's just typy and not typey.


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## rutylr

Dogstar said:


> Applehead is the correct breed type. They're spposed to have the domed skull and short muzzle. Your pup is a perfectly nice PET QUALITY chihuahua. Saying applehead or deerhead as 'types' is not really correct. There's just typy and not typey.


Very correct you are...
They are supose to have the dome apple head.As per the standard.So there are dogs who fit the standard.
Head
A well rounded "apple dome" skull, with or without molera. Expression – Saucy. Eyes - Full, round, but not protruding, balanced, set well apart-luminous dark or luminous ruby. Light eyes in blond or white-colored dogs permissible. Blue eyes or a difference in the color of the iris in the two eyes, or two different colors within one iris should be considered a serious fault. Ears – Large, erect type ears, held more upright when alert, but flaring to the sides at a 45 degree angle when in repose, giving breadth between the ears. Stop – Well defined. When viewed in profile, it forms a near 90 degree angle where muzzle joins skull. Muzzle – Moderately short, slightly pointed. Cheeks and jaws lean. Nose – Self-colored in blond types, or black. In moles, blues, and chocolates, they are self-colored. In blond types, pink noses permissible. Bite – Level or scissors. Overshot or undershot, or any distortion of the bite or jaw, should be penalized as a serious fault. A missing tooth or two is permissible. Disqualifications – Broken down or cropped ears.

and ones who don't...


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## Regi

Adorable I have 2 chi's who one is considered Apple and the other is considered a deer chi ,,I wanted to show my babies I have 4 2 chis and 2 yorkies I love them all


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## JemKnott

OH some people who replied to this thread have chihuahua's!!! LOl.

PLEASE keep in touch, I have four and am mad about them

I just wanted to make a few points,

I agree the term TEACUP makes me boil at the blood!!!

Also just wanted to say, and I REALLY do not mean to sound like I am having a go about this so please do not think I am, I hope i get the right "tone" here, but
a comment was made about appleheads in the show ring that made it SOUND like ALL appleheads have an open molera.
I just wanted to clarify they dont. I know several people in the UK who show, NONE have a dog with an open molera. BUt I agree the applehead does tend to get favoured over the deerhead, BUT as long as your chihuahua meets the breed standarad it doesnt really matter in show/ breed circles. As for a pet, go for what you like, and just do the usual puppy checks (clean ears eyes botttom) and b extra carefull to check for a lively puppy, and then check their head, an open molera is simple to check for, and once you felt a few easy to find, but can mean more sinister issues. my first pup had one, we werent told about it, and she turned out to have THREE lesions in her skull AND hydrocephalus, and was sold to me as breed and show girl!!

And trust me not all chihuahua's are teeny tiny dainty things, I have a rather large one, weighing 9 pounds, but I love him to bits.

Some are leggy too though, they can all be so different.


my only advice, if you are not 100% CERTAIN then pass over this dog and look for another one. I find if alarm bells ring at all there is usually a reason and as hard as it can be to say no, when the right dog comes along from a decent breeder you will know it!!!


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## Regi

Hi I love my 4 babies 2 yorkies and 2 chi's now as I said before in my other postings I think my chihuahuas I think are considered as one Applehead that would be Spicey who is posted sleeping in her pink nighty and my other one is I think considered a deer chi however my deer chi is not a tiny guy he weighs 12 to 13 pounds easy he is posted with fake teeth on my little picture to the right. His name is Princeton .,.named after the place I was married to my husband Princeton New Jersey,,, and my little girl Spice is named after the Spice girls after a once pranked my husband when we were dating saying that I was a Spice girl and he won tickets to a show ha,, I have terminal cancer unfortunately had breast cancer that spread to my bones and then after having to replace my breasts both after having my son with my husband I also had a broken femur and needed a rod in my leg then it spread to my brain and my liver ... so it doesnt look great but my husband will always keep my dogs.. and my kids.. So for me my dogs are pets only and they keep me happy and give me something else to focus on to take care of my children are ages 21,15 and 6 ,,


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## BrittanyG

Here's our lil girl, rescued from an abusive situation. Totally changed my perception of small dogs.


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## KarinA

Ur girl is so cute! i think mine wold look the same if she'd had short coat


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## johanssonphoto

hi, she looks exactly like my dog. she is a mix btw pom-chi, they even look related. we got ours from new york. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150142236695240&set=t.555582390&theater


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## weezybart

what a beautiful deer head chi! My husband and I just recently adopted one, his name is tony


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