# Has anybody ever shaved their long hair large breed?



## BeckyP (Jan 22, 2008)

I have a Bernese Mnt dog/ Pry mix and her hair is on every thing. I brush and I brush but it still doesn't seem to help. I have thought about shaving her so many times, Not to mention now hot it gets here in the summer but I am always afraid her hair wont grow back the same and she will look funny. We also plan on getting a Saint Bernard. So would you shave them or just leave them?


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

I have a long coated GSD that we never shave. He sheds like crazy and we brush him like crazy, just things we have learned to live with. I chose not to shave him because of the fear that his hair would not grow back right. He has a beautiful coat and I dont want to ruin it. Also, their coats protect them from the heat, it insulates them. 

If you are worried about a Saint with long hair, why not consider a smooth coat? They have much shorter hair.


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## BeckyP (Jan 22, 2008)

When we do come across a Saint we wont discriminate. If we find a smooth coat that would be great but so far we have pretty much only seen the long hair.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

these dogs should nto be shaved. many groomers, including myself, actually turn away people who want to do this (unless for an extreme medical issue). the best thing to do for your dog is to have him groomed when the shedding gets bad. they can blow out all the dead hair which is much better than just brushing. i know you think your dog is hot, but if the dogs undercoat is brushed and not matted, the hair is actually aiding in keeping the dog cool. the only way the hair will make him hot is if the undercoat is not routinely maintained. the hair may or may not be changed forever, but it will definetly not grow in the same right away. the undercoat will grow faster than the gaurd hairs, and the dog will be pretty fluffy for awhile. some dogs grow back normal, some dont. and the more you shave, the less likely it is that the hair will grow back the same. not only that, but shaving him will not make the shedding stop, the hairs that shed will now be little tiny hairs that stick to everything and are very prickly. 

i say this almost daily. when you get a dog, you really need to consider all aspects of having that dog. all dogs shed to some degree, and if you cant stand it that much then you need to consider a dog that doesnt shed as much. your dog are considered heavy shedders. did you realize this when you decided to get him? shaving him will only satisfy your need to not have dog hair everywhere, and actually give the dog more chances of freezing in the winter and overheating in the summer. you need to accept your dog, and keep him in his natural coat.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

I've shaved my sheltie down before and he was much happier once I did. And his coat grew back exactly the same if not better than it was before. Granted I do prefer to just groom hi and blow out the coat since I adore his long hair. In the particular instance when I shaved him he was going to be having surgery the next day, so I figured he wouldn't look as funny with a bald spot if I shaved his entire body. I think the key to his coat growing back so nice was that I left a good inch of coat on him and fed a high quality diet which helped to coat grow back beautifully.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

There was a Bernese Mountain Dog at the park today that had been shaved: he looked really strange (and the shaving had taken place a week or two ago already). He still shed a ton, it's just that the hairs were shorter.

Personally I'd never do it if I had a breed like that. It can really mess up their coat permanently. BMDs and Pyrs are known for heavy shedding...if it bothers you that much you might want to find a good groomer to go to during the worst of it.


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## Shanette Peters (Jan 14, 2008)

I agree with Puerplex15, These breeds among many others shouldn't be shaved unless due to medical problems. Shaving won't help the shedding nor the heat/cold. Keep up with regular brushing and the dogs coat will help keep him cool in the summer and warmer in the winter. If you don't like how much this breed shed's and you want another dog consider a smooth coated breed.


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## Rough_Collies2008 (Jan 4, 2008)

I also wouldn't shave. Long-haired breeds rely on their coats to control their temperature(in both heat and cold weather). By cutting their long coat they can't naturally do that. Really though, I just couldn't imagine shaving my rough coat collies or sheltie. I love the long hair!

St. Bernards Rough Coat or Smooth(I had a smooth) shed a lot. They are heavy heavy shedders at times. There is no way to get around that.



Purplex15 said:


> these dogs should nto be shaved. many groomers, including myself, actually turn away people who want to do this (unless for an extreme medical issue). the best thing to do for your dog is to have him groomed when the shedding gets bad. they can blow out all the dead hair which is much better than just brushing. i know you think your dog is hot, but if the dogs undercoat is brushed and not matted, the hair is actually aiding in keeping the dog cool. the only way the hair will make him hot is if the undercoat is not routinely maintained. the hair may or may not be changed forever, but it will definetly not grow in the same right away. the undercoat will grow faster than the gaurd hairs, and the dog will be pretty fluffy for awhile. some dogs grow back normal, some dont. and the more you shave, the less likely it is that the hair will grow back the same. not only that, but shaving him will not make the shedding stop, the hairs that shed will now be little tiny hairs that stick to everything and are very prickly.
> 
> i say this almost daily. when you get a dog, you really need to consider all aspects of having that dog. all dogs shed to some degree, and if you cant stand it that much then you need to consider a dog that doesnt shed as much. your dog are considered heavy shedders. did you realize this when you decided to get him? shaving him will only satisfy your need to not have dog hair everywhere, and actually give the dog more chances of freezing in the winter and overheating in the summer. you need to accept your dog, and keep him in his natural coat.


You explained the heat thing better then me!


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## BeckyP (Jan 22, 2008)

Purplex15 said:


> these dogs should nto be shaved. many groomers, including myself, actually turn away people who want to do this (unless for an extreme medical issue). the best thing to do for your dog is to have him groomed when the shedding gets bad. they can blow out all the dead hair which is much better than just brushing. i know you think your dog is hot, but if the dogs undercoat is brushed and not matted, the hair is actually aiding in keeping the dog cool. the only way the hair will make him hot is if the undercoat is not routinely maintained. the hair may or may not be changed forever, but it will definetly not grow in the same right away. the undercoat will grow faster than the gaurd hairs, and the dog will be pretty fluffy for awhile. some dogs grow back normal, some dont. and the more you shave, the less likely it is that the hair will grow back the same. not only that, but shaving him will not make the shedding stop, the hairs that shed will now be little tiny hairs that stick to everything and are very prickly.
> 
> i say this almost daily. when you get a dog, you really need to consider all aspects of having that dog. all dogs shed to some degree, and if you cant stand it that much then you need to consider a dog that doesnt shed as much. your dog are considered heavy shedders. did you realize this when you decided to get him? shaving him will only satisfy your need to not have dog hair everywhere, and actually give the dog more chances of freezing in the winter and overheating in the summer. you need to accept your dog, and keep him in his natural coat.


Yes I research my dogs before I get them. I also know that all dogs shed to some degree and I asked before I just took a pair of cutters to her. My dog will not freeze for one because she is an inside dog and two we really don't get all that cold her. I was more worried about her getting to hot. Your first paragraph was very informative and I appreciate that I didn't know her coat helped cool her. But your second Paragraph I find very offensive. I know I am new to this board but I don't need to be treated like a bad dog owner. I'm sure anybody who has a Great Pry will understand where I am coming from with how much hair they have. It doesn't just come out in one or two little hairs it comes out in clumps and she gets brushed at least two times a week. I try and do it more but not always possible.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Hehe, I shaved Penny last spring:








I did touch up the haircut after I took this pic, so it wasn't so patchy. She still looked really funny for a few weeks. After a month or so, enough hair had grown back that she looked OK. I think she liked it; she didn't pant as much after going on a walk, anyway. I haven't decided if I'll do it again this year. If I do, I might take her to a groomer this time so she doesn't look so awful. She's never been to a groomer, though, so I'm a little worried. It grew back by October and is just as thick as it ever was. You'd never know that she had been shaved.


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## banjosteve (Nov 27, 2007)

seriously, I wouldn't shave your BMD, just brush them a lot and also if you notice a pattern of heavy shedding, just give them more frequent baths (well more like rinses) in warm water -- this will help get some of the lose undercoat out when you brush right after. I do this for my Jindos, but they really only shed twice a year.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

To me - it doesn't make sense to get a long haired breed/dog just to shave it. You want a St. but you also don't want long hair (I assume, since you are asking about shaving) then WAIT until you find a short haired pup.

It's not discrimination, it's being proactive and picking the right dog for your household.


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

BeckyP said:


> My dog will not freeze for one because she is an inside dog and two we really don't get all that cold her. I was more worried about her getting to hot. Your first paragraph was very informative and I appreciate that I didn't know her coat helped cool her. But your second Paragraph I find very offensive. I know I am new to this board but I don't need to be treated like a bad dog owner. I'm sure anybody who has a Great Pry will understand where I am coming from with how much hair they have. It doesn't just come out in one or two little hairs it comes out in clumps and she gets brushed at least two times a week. I try and do it more but not always possible.


 IF you do shave the dog, this is assuming you can find someone to do this, I like many other groomers around here would NEVER shave a dog like this, please remember the coat may ot ever grow back properly. Their coat insulates them from both heat and cold. All those outer guard hairs you're considering removing reflect the sun and heat, keeping them cool. It's hard as a groomer to hear all the requests to shave dogs that were meant to have coat, we're left wondering why the people wanting us to shave their golden's coat off just didn't get a lab in the first place?? I can appreciate the work a coat like you have requires but if you take the time to maintain her coat by thoroughly line brushing and combing twice a week, there will be much less shedding. Having her hair come out in clumps tells me one of three things, either when you brush and comb her you're not doing a thorough enough job getting down to the skin everywhere or she's nutritionally lacking something her coat needs or there's something medically wrong such as a thyroid disorder. No one's trying to call you a bad dog owner, we assumed since you were asking opinions on shaving her you wanted our honest opinions. There are extreme medical reasons that might necessitate shaving, but for reducing shedding there are much safer alternatives, just understand she'll always be a heavy shedder just as a Saint will be.


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

I don't understand having a long coated breed and then wanting to shave it so you don't have to "deal with" the hair.


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## BeckyP (Jan 22, 2008)

lovemygreys said:


> I don't understand having a long coated breed and then wanting to shave it so you don't have to "deal with" the hair.


I never said I didn't want to "deal with" the hair. I just said that she sheds a lot and asked about shaving. I have never questioned getting a long hair dog. I love her and I love the breed and I will get another. If I have to live with the hair that is fine I just wanted to ask for others opinions. People have said not to do it because it was bad for the coat so I will not shave her but I thought I would ask. Some of the responses come across very rude to a newbe. You sure make people feel welcome here don't ya?


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## chucky (Mar 5, 2007)

when i was a little kid, we had gsd, my uncle did shave him once, it was summer, and it was hotter than usual, and there was no ac back than, i still remember, the dog looked funny, very funny, but in a few months it grew back a little , and it wasn,t noticable anymore, the dog was fine, it didn,t affect his health or behavior, in any way, thou he didn,t drink as much, i assume he wasn,t as hot anymore.

and my wife shaves our brittany every summer, i don,t like it, cuz he looks like overgrown puppy, but he doesn,t mind, it does get very hot here. and humid too.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

BeckyP said:


> Some of the responses come across very rude to a newbe. You sure make people feel welcome here don't ya?


Please don't be put off by soe of the others responses. Many of the responses you got were from groomers themselves, and shaving a coated breed is a very touchy subject for them. Often times were so emotional about our responses we forget to re-read them to make sure they aren't comming off offensive. I'm sure no one meant to attack you as a dog owner, they just disagree with shaving a coated breed.

I'd also like to note that working in a vet hospital we have to shave tons of coated breeds for medical procedures and their coat comes back in just fine. I've only seen one dog that had a full body shave that didn't grow back well; and the owners just left the dog outside all day and threw it some more pedigree when it's bowl was empty. I just don't get how a groomer will say the coat will never grow back right when I see it done everyday. Though I do agree that shaving will not cut done on the amount of sheding.

And Chucky I noticed the same reaction in my dog when I shaved him. He didn't pant as much, he wasn't on a constant quest for water, and he looked much happier.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

animalcraker said:


> I just don't get how a groomer will say the coat will never grow back right when I see it done everyday.


They say that because in some dogs/breeds it DOESN'T grow back correctly. Though, it's probably more from a show dog stand point where coat has to be just right.

The hair grows back fine, but it's not always the right texture for example.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

BeckyP said:


> I never said I didn't want to "deal with" the hair. I just said that she sheds a lot and asked about shaving. I have never questioned getting a long hair dog. I love her and I love the breed and I will get another. If I have to live with the hair that is fine I just wanted to ask for others opinions. People have said not to do it because it was bad for the coat so I will not shave her but I thought I would ask. Some of the responses come across very rude to a newbe. You sure make people feel welcome here don't ya?


Invest in a Mars King coat rake (I think that's the correct name. Groomers?) For long-haired breeds that shed, it's a great tool to have.


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## doggone6 (Sep 7, 2007)

She will still shed. The hairs will just be shorter.


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## Priss and Pedro's Mama (Nov 4, 2007)

You just need a few items to make things easier. 
The first is a shedding rake to work through the coat both before and after a bath.








The second is a blower for drying (some call it a high velocity or hi-vo dryer). You'll almost blow as much hair out as you brush out with one of these. They are AMAZING! A bit pricey sometimes, but oh so worth it. 








And the third is a few of these strategically placed around the house 









And just so you don't think I'm a total nut...I've been there! This was from rescued PUPPIES! 3 month old PUPPIES!


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## Shanette Peters (Jan 14, 2008)

Dakota Spirit said:


> They say that because in some dogs/breeds it DOESN'T grow back correctly. Though, it's probably more from a show dog stand point where coat has to be just right.
> 
> The hair grows back fine, but it's not always the right texture for example.


I own a border collie (not a show dog), the lady who owns her mom(chloe) and sister (sparkle)wanted me to shave them both down, she lives on an acreage with horses. I told her I'd rather her just have me come brush them on a regular basis, she ended up shaving down chloe herself. Since then the first year it grew back just fine after the second shave down it didn't majority of her coat went patchy. I was asked to go and give her a clip again i did chloe for her, but sparkles i gave a burshing. After seeing how Chloe's hair didn't grow back properly she decided to not do anything like that to sparkles. I wish i knew how to put a picture on the post so you could see it. I sincerely hope you choose not to shave your dogs unless needed medically.


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## acanoffleas (Jan 15, 2008)

The job of a groomer is to find the best compromise for you as the dog owner and the dog's health and happiness. Personally, I would try to talk you out of shaving him, as for reasons previously stated. But if it's really what you wanted, I would work with you to figure out the best length for him. However, if I COULD talk you out of it, I would probably recommend bringing him in every 4-6 weeks to touch him up (clean up his feet, sanitary areas, legs, etc.), give him a good bath and dry to really blow out the undercoat (which is what you find laying around your house), and a thorough brushing with a Furminator or a Coat King (Mars brush) to remove any stubborn undercoat. Groomers have products and tools that owners typically don't -take advantage of it! With regular visits, the shedding would lessen at home. *A good groomer should be willing to work with your dog*, and it being his first time being professionally groomed. A shave-down can be a quick fix, but typically it won't really get to the root of the problem, as because of the kind of coat a BMD has (double coat), it will continue to shed, but the hairs will be smaller.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

animalcraker said:


> Please don't be put off by soe of the others responses. Many of the responses you got were from groomers themselves, and shaving a coated breed is a very touchy subject for them. Often times were so emotional about our responses we forget to re-read them to make sure they aren't comming off offensive. I'm sure no one meant to attack you as a dog owner, they just disagree with shaving a coated breed.
> 
> I'd also like to note that working in a vet hospital we have to shave tons of coated breeds for medical procedures and their coat comes back in just fine. I've only seen one dog that had a full body shave that didn't grow back well; and the owners just left the dog outside all day and threw it some more pedigree when it's bowl was empty. I just don't get how a groomer will say the coat will never grow back right when I see it done everyday. Though I do agree that shaving will not cut done on the amount of sheding.
> 
> And Chucky I noticed the same reaction in my dog when I shaved him. He didn't pant as much, he wasn't on a constant quest for water, and he looked much happier.


this happens everytime someone postsa thread about shaving double breeds. it doesnt matter how many groomers tell you not to do it, there is always someone disagreeing with us for whatever reason. animalcracker, you already admitted that you did not shave your dog, you had the groomer leave 2 inches. that is not shaving. so many people say in these threads " oh i shaved my dog he was fine, you just have to tell the groomer to leave 2 inches" well that is not shaving. shaving is by definition using a 7 blade which leaves an 1/8 of an inch. 

i also know that some dogs do grow back fine after being shaved. but it doesnt happen quickly. it takes over 6 months for it to grow back the same b/c the undercoat WILL grow faster than the gaurd hairsand again, if the groomer left 2 inches, then the hair will be fine b/c it wasnt shaved (please ask yourself this question before you argue with me, i am not talking about a trim, im talking about shaving) someone said their brittany spaniel grew back fine, and that is because it is not a double coated breed like we are talking about.

im really sorry if what i said offended you but if you had actually researched these dogs you would have found this information on your own, instead of having to question us. researching is not just what dog do or dont i like. like i said you really need to look at all aspects of the dog and think if it will fit in with your life. if you would have researched correctly you would have found out that these dogs should not be shaved. 2 times a week is not enough brushing (something else you would have found out through research). and if the hair is coming out like you say then you are not doing a thoroughjob with the brushing. take your dog to a groomer, ask them to show you how to brush (chances are you are doing it wrong). like another groomer said, you will be hard pressed to find a groomer who will shave a doublecoated dog.

i also wanted to add that if your dog seemed happier after being shaved it is for one reason: the dogs cot was not maintained and it was making them hot. when the undercoat is not brush out, it starts to clump together and then acts like a wool sweater the dog cant pull off. if you do not brush from the root and get that hair out it will harm your dog and make them hot.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Purple did not not read the part where I work at a vet hospital and see double coated breeds shaved to the skin everyday with the hair growing back just fine. Also just in case you didn't know I show my dogs, so I know how to properly groom them and remove all that undercoat.

There's no need to get in such a tissy about someone not 100% agreeing with you. Your attitude and defensiveness about the subject is why so many people get put off by professional groomers. Because of this they either settle with petsmart "groomers" or try to do it themselves at home, which I'm sure both of us can agree are horible solutions to the problem.


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## acanoffleas (Jan 15, 2008)

animalcraker said:


> ... Your attitude and defensiveness about the subject is why so many people get put off by professional groomers. Because of this they either settle with petsmart "groomers" or try to do it themselves at home, which I'm sure both of us can agree are horible solutions to the problem.


Animalcraker, I take offense to this statement. I myself am a Petsmart groomer, and I'd like to think that I can take great pride in my work and the effort I put into this trade. Granted, I understand where the stigma comes from, but that doesn't mean that all Petsmart groomers will fall into this category. In fact, I'd be first to admit that an experience at one Petsmart will not necessarily be identical to the next. But not in MY grooming salon. So, with all due respect, I have been trained and am actively learning about different breeds, hairstyles, products, tools and thensome constantly, as it is part of my job, and I would NOT recommend shaving down a long haired large breed dog. However, if ultimately in the long run this is what the owner wants, then I will do it, and I'll do it in a way that is safe and efficient for the dog. I can absolutely understand where Purple is coming from, as I can as well for you.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Saw the rake mentioned. Four double coats in my house including a Saint. these three things are all I use, and things are less hairy than a lot of single dog houses I see. My experience from having a large breed short hair (Great Dane) around is, their hair is worse. The length and coarseness allow it to "weave" into things that the long hairs wont. Like upholstery.


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## Shanette Peters (Jan 14, 2008)

acanoffleas said:


> Animalcraker, I take offense to this statement. I myself am a Petsmart groomer, and I'd like to think that I can take great pride in my work and the effort I put into this trade. Granted, I understand where the stigma comes from, but that doesn't mean that all Petsmart groomers will fall into this category. In fact, I'd be first to admit that an experience at one Petsmart will not necessarily be identical to the next. But not in MY grooming salon. So, with all due respect, I have been trained and am actively learning about different breeds, hairstyles, products, tools and thensome constantly, as it is part of my job, and I would NOT recommend shaving down a long haired large breed dog. However, if ultimately in the long run this is what the owner wants, then I will do it, and I'll do it in a way that is safe and efficient for the dog. I can absolutely understand where Purple is coming from, as I can as well for you.


I also take offense to your statement animalcraker, I received my certificate thru Petsmart. There are many very tallented people working for them. Then as for people doing it themselves at home, some people are knowledgeable with what their dog needs others not so much. We need to be careful not to generalize so poorly.


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## chucky (Mar 5, 2007)

but if you leave 2 inches on double coat dog, it will still shed, the hair on the floor, or anywhere else would be shorter, but still be there. am i right or no?


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

I will confess that I shaved my Saint through Petco. We picked him up and within 24 hours had him shaved. He was so disgusting with his mattes and clumps. I don't reccomend it unless it HAS to be done. It's taken about a year to become normal. No one else would do it. It was so bad he had hot spots at the base of every matte which covered his entire body. Any sane person would know occassionally it has to be done.


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## acanoffleas (Jan 15, 2008)

harrise said:


> I will confess that I shaved my Saint through Petco. We picked him up and within 24 hours had him shaved. He was so disgusting with his mattes and clumps. I don't reccomend it unless it HAS to be done. It's taken about a year to become normal. No one else would do it. It was so bad he had hot spots at the base of every matte which covered his entire body. Any sane person would know occassionally it has to be done.


And I think this is a perfect example of when it IS appropriate to shave down a double coated breed. Again, a good groomer would recognize when it is appropriate and when an alternate solution could be presented. Dematting can be extremely unpleasant, given certain circumstances. In this case, the dog's health came first, and the priority was to get out the mats and to care for the hot spots.


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## Shanette Peters (Jan 14, 2008)

chucky said:


> but if you leave 2 inches on double coat dog, it will still shed, the hair on the floor, or anywhere else would be shorter, but still be there. am i right or no?


Yes you are right.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

animalcraker said:


> Your attitude and defensiveness about the subject is why so many people get put off by professional groomers. Because of this they either settle with petsmart "groomers" or try to do it themselves at home, which I'm sure both of us can agree are horible solutions to the problem.


I do appologize for making poor generalizations and did not mean to offend anyone. What I meant by it was that people will choose sub par soultions instead of going to a knowlegable person who is willing to work with them on their pets grooming needs and learn how to properly take care of thier dogs coat.

And I do have another question. If the owner wants their dog shaved and doesn't want to deal the long hair, why would it matter how the coat grows back if they're planing on constanly keeping the hair short?


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## acanoffleas (Jan 15, 2008)

For me, I think the possibility of the hair not growing back the same way is more important if the owner plans on letting the hair grow out again. Think about it - if a person brings their dog in to be shaved and six months from then the hair isn't quite the same as it was before the haircut, an unsuspecting owner might be upset, worried, or disappointed. I think if it's your plan to continue to bring the dog in every two months or so to keep up with the short-hair regimen, then I say go for it. I have a black lab-mix that comes in every 6-8 weeks and gets an 8 1/2 strip all over. I have no problems doing this, as this is what the owners feel is appropriate for themselves and their pet, and they're consistent with it.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

animalcraker said:


> I do appologize for making poor generalizations and did not mean to offend anyone. What I meant by it was that people will choose sub par soultions instead of going to a knowlegable person who is willing to work with them on their pets grooming needs and learn how to properly take care of thier dogs coat.
> 
> And I do have another question. If the owner wants their dog shaved and doesn't want to deal the long hair, why would it matter how the coat grows back if they're planing on constanly keeping the hair short?


to answer your question, i personally would not do the dog, even if the owner was intending on keeping it short. why? it just really goes against what i want to do as a groomer. i believe these dogs should be kept as natural as possible. i dont think what i would be doing is right for this particular animal and would honestly turn down someone, no matetr how much the wanted to pay me. like i said before people should research their dogs before getting them. so many just run out and get the cutest furriest dog they can get, then they are just shocked when the dog sheds. then they go to a groomer and say "i want my golden to look like a lab" or something else just as ridiculous. if they want to do it, they will find another groomer who will not feel as strongly about it as i do, and get what they want. but at least i dont have to be the one to feel quilty when that dog dies of heatstroke, or his hair takes a year to grow in.

i have noticed this a lot in dog forums. people ask a question. many dog owners give their speil, but when trained professionals come on saying the opposite, not everyone listens. i understand you show your dogs animal cracker. however it is very widely known that show handlers and breeders know about their breed, not necessarily all around grooming. im sure you can groom the dogs you show, but that doesnt mean much to me. my boss is friends with a champion poodle breeder,handler, and groomer. give her a schnauzer and she wouldnt know how to do the pattern. many are like this. unless you say otherwise, i will assume its true for you too. i also highly doubt that every one of those dog you shaved grew back normal, and they all most certainly didnt do it right away. are you saying that i imagined all the dogs i have seen over the years that took awhile to grow back normal, or never at all? 

everyone can do what they want. but i have found that many people who want dogs like this shaved simply do not realize the risks involved. when i explain what could happen, i quickly talk almost everyone out of it. if the dog is healthy, and is on a high quality diet, then yes the heir should grow back, but it will not be right away, and for that time the dog will be unprotected by natural elements (which means no prolonged sun/cold weather exposure). and if your dog does have an underlying health problem, the hair could be gone forever, whereas if you found out the problem before doing the shaving, the hair could have been saved.


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## Shanette Peters (Jan 14, 2008)

Purplex15 said:


> to answer your question, i personally would not do the dog, even if the owner was intending on keeping it short. why? it just really goes against what i want to do as a groomer. i believe these dogs should be kept as natural as possible. i dont think what i would be doing is right for this particular animal and would honestly turn down someone, no matetr how much the wanted to pay me. like i said before people should research their dogs before getting them. so many just run out and get the cutest furriest dog they can get, then they are just shocked when the dog sheds. then they go to a groomer and say "i want my golden to look like a lab" or something else just as ridiculous. if they want to do it, they will find another groomer who will not feel as strongly about it as i do, and get what they want. but at least i dont have to be the one to feel quilty when that dog dies of heatstroke, or his hair takes a year to grow in.
> 
> i have noticed this a lot in dog forums. people ask a question. many dog owners give their speil, but when trained professionals come on saying the opposite, not everyone listens. i understand you show your dogs animal cracker. however it is very widely known that show handlers and breeders know about their breed, not necessarily all around grooming. im sure you can groom the dogs you show, but that doesnt mean much to me. my boss is friends with a champion poodle breeder,handler, and groomer. give her a schnauzer and she wouldnt know how to do the pattern. many are like this. unless you say otherwise, i will assume its true for you too. i also highly doubt that every one of those dog you shaved grew back normal, and they all most certainly didnt do it right away. are you saying that i imagined all the dogs i have seen over the years that took awhile to grow back normal, or never at all?
> 
> everyone can do what they want. but i have found that many people who want dogs like this shaved simply do not realize the risks involved. when i explain what could happen, i quickly talk almost everyone out of it. if the dog is healthy, and is on a high quality diet, then yes the heir should grow back, but it will not be right away, and for that time the dog will be unprotected by natural elements (which means no prolonged sun/cold weather exposure). and if your dog does have an underlying health problem, the hair could be gone forever, whereas if you found out the problem before doing the shaving, the hair could have been saved.


Purplex15~I'd like to say Very Well Put! I completely agree with you! A lot of people don't realize there are breeds that can be shaved right down to nearly any length and it'll grow back then there are those which deffinately should not be shaved and I'd be happy to have a clear mind knowing that I either at least tried to talk a person out of it or decided not to do it at all - as a groomer(just like a vet) you are looking out for the well being of the animal before you consider the owners wants/needs. I haven't looked through every post yet, I wonder if there is on about those dogs nails which are overgrown, and what others have recommended doing. I always suggest frequent nail trims to bring the nail to an appropriate length for the dog, however I've heard others wanting it cut short imediately. I might put my own post about that topic.


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## kobedog (Feb 21, 2008)

i don't recommend shaving a dog like that. eventually it ruins their coat. like most groomers (and people in general), i feel if people don't want to deal with shedding, they should get a dog that doesn't shed, like a poodle. but since you have one that sheds, i would recommend brushing it and having it bathed at a salon. the high velocity blow dryers can blow a lot of that loose hair out.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

When I took Snoopy to the groomers for his first hair cut they cut way more than what I asked for. I told her to just trim some off the top, maybe half an inch to an inch but aparantly you can't just run the clippers over the top and she would charge $100 to get what I wanted because she would have to do it by hand.

Here is what he looked like,


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## kobedog (Feb 21, 2008)

interesting. at the salon i work at, we only have two basic rates for each breed. one rate for just a face/feet/tail trim and one rate for an all over hair cut, no matter what the customer wants done. i work for a large pet chain so i guess private business owners can charge whatever they want. for the length Snoopy is in the photo, she could have used a guard comb.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

she claimed she didn't have alot of blades, I think when its summer and I take him in to get the whole body trimmed, I'm just getting the face and butt area clipped tomorrow, I'm going to try someone else.


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## kobedog (Feb 21, 2008)

not a lot of blades? that seems so strange, especially for someone who can charge so much for a hair cut. our salon charges 1/2 of that for an all over haircut. good luck in your quest, i hope you find someone a little less expensive with some more tools!


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## Libertie (Feb 21, 2008)

acanoffleas said:


> Animalcraker, I take offense to this statement. I myself am a Petsmart groomer, and I'd like to think that I can take great pride in my work and the effort I put into this trade. Granted, I understand where the stigma comes from, but that doesn't mean that all Petsmart groomers will fall into this category. In fact, I'd be first to admit that an experience at one Petsmart will not necessarily be identical to the next. But not in MY grooming salon. So, with all due respect, I have been trained and am actively learning about different breeds, hairstyles, products, tools and thensome constantly, as it is part of my job, and I would NOT recommend shaving down a long haired large breed dog. However, if ultimately in the long run this is what the owner wants, then I will do it, and I'll do it in a way that is safe and efficient for the dog. I can absolutely understand where Purple is coming from, as I can as well for you.


LOL re: Petsmart groomers and !!!NO OFFENSE TO YOU Acanoffleas!!!! I just thought this was pretty amusing....a few years ago I was at Petsmart with my show Brittany male who had just been shown the weekend before and show groomed by me; I was near the grooming area the door to which was open; one of the groomers spotted me and my dog and said "You know, we can groom him for you"...what??? I was taken aback! I guess she beelined on his leg feathering and would have cut it all down or something! I told her ummmm, I groom my own dogs, thank you; he is already groomed for the show ring as I just showed him last weekend"  I know they are not all like that, but THAT was a real head-shaker!!

And I have NEVER understood the desire to completely shave down a dog. I would never do that (unless medically necessary of course). My old spayed girl gets an unruly coat. I trim her coat. I've even used clippers with blade guard, very gingerly. I NEVER shave down. It takes more work not to, but I want her to continue to look like a Brittany and be comfortable in all weather (with correct, well as correct as spay coat can be) coat.


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## kobedog (Feb 21, 2008)

another petsomething "groomer" (those quotes offended me too) here. i don't think people realize the training we go through to become a groomer there. it doesn't mean everyone coming out of their grooming academy is going to be good, just like with any other school or shop training groomers. not sure where that quote was posted from but i would like anyone knocking any groomer to try it for themselves before judging. it is not easy, especially with some of the crazy dogs we have to work on.

as far as the person who offered to groom your brittany, the groomer may not have been insinuating that your dog *needed* to be groomed right then, maybe she just likes the breed. another situation could have been that she was walking the floor looking for new customers, as we are asked to do when the salon is slow. 
large chain petshops generally do pet grooming, not show grooming, but there is a huge need for pet grooming and sometimes i think it's just has difficult due to customers not knowing what they want, all of the different options for a pet cut, the coat not being as well maintained as a show dog, etc.

as far as shave downs, if a dog is matted to the skin, there is no choice but to shave it down. everyone at my salon tries not to ever shave down a dog but you cannot get a guard come through even the smallest tangle. you mentioned unruly coats, that is not the same as matted. i had one so matted last week that it came off in almost one piece like a pelt. i would love to know how to avoid doing a shave down on that dog. lol


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Hey kobedog, check out my topic on the grooming section here, the groomer refused to groom my dog today because they claimed he had matts on his stomach and legs, he doesn't. lol


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## acanoffleas (Jan 15, 2008)

Libertie, no need to tip toe around the subject.  I'm just not a fan of general assumptions. I, as a groomer, want to become the best I can be and take pride in my ever-evolving work. Like kobedog said, not everyone who comes out of Academy training is going to be "good." I feel incredibly fortunate that I found myself in a corporate-chain salon that has five, very talented groomers. 

As for your Brittany...lawd, who knows what was going on in the groomer's head. Maybe she was just scouting you out. Like kobedog said, we primarily get a lot of pet grooming versus show grooming. We have been trained to know what is breed standard, but it's rare that we actually get _dogs_ of breed standard that will look flattering in the haircut. Personally, I love doing sporting trims. I'm thrilled anytime I get a dog that actually has "good" hair that will look fabulous with a breed standard cut. 

Anyhoo...no offense taken


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## WicketLeia (Oct 15, 2007)

I'm a Pyr owner myself.. One word: Furminator ... google it!


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## kobedog (Feb 21, 2008)

_


Durbkat said:



Hey kobedog, check out my topic on the grooming section here, the groomer refused to groom my dog today because they claimed he had matts on his stomach and legs, he doesn't. lol

Click to expand...

_i read the thread and it does sound strange. i would definitely ask him to show you the mats. i think it's strange to refuse to groom Snoopy. the only way i could see that happening is if a customer wanted their matted dog groomed and the dog was very matted and they didn't want the mats removed. dematting can be very time consuming and if the mats are so close to the skin that you can't get a mat comb or mat breaker under them, they pretty much have to be shaved out. dematting is very uncomfortable for the dog too so if there are a lot of mats, it's really hard on the dog. if Snoopy *was* matted, i could see him rescheduling for a larger time slot to allow time for dematting but you say you can run a comb through his coat so it doesn't sound like he is. one good way to tell, other than running a comb through, is by parting the hair. if you can see skin, you know he's not matted in that spot.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well I found one mat on his leg, I was able to cut it out with scissors as it was far away from the skin, but that was the only one. He wouldn't even trim his nails, but he had no problem talking about how long they were, 3 months since they were last done.


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## kobedog (Feb 21, 2008)

i would definitely ask for a different groomer. sounds like he just didn't want to groom him for some reason.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Seeing as how dogs don't cool off by sweating, I think you're in la la land.

1) Most dogs act like a puppy after being groomed (not shaved). It's a post grooming zoomies.

2) Thick coats act like insulation. It keeps them cool in hot weather, and keeps them warm in cold weather. A lot of people have this mistaken idea that it works like a furnace, retaining all the heat until it builds up then goes BOOM! It doesn't.

3) My double coated, very thick and fluffy, Alaskan Malamute spends time outdoors all evening even in our 90-105 degree summers. With enough water to cool off and some shelter.

So all that stuff you mentioned have nothing to do with shaved coats, just dogs being dogs and generic human ignorance.

PS try bumping a post made less than 2 years ago next time!


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

Shaving a double coated dog does nothing but damage the coat and leave your dog vunrable to insects and weather. 

I think you need tog row up and be a little bit more mature.

At the grooming shop I work at, we refuse to shave double coated dogs. No we do not have mental problems. We are just not scummy breeders who just do it, we speak with the client explain our reasons on why we will not do it. and let the client choose what they want. to shave then they must go some where else, or to get a proper grooming for such a breed (A good brush, bath and blow dry and brush again)


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

Shaving the coat does leave the dog at risk. The guard hairs are there for a reason, to protect from heat, cold, bushes and bugs. If the coat is well cared for it should not be a problem, the warmer undercoat will shed out. If the skin is dry it is not the coat's fault, it's the diet or grooming not being looked after or a medical issue. When the dog is shaved, the undercoat is exposed and they'll collect a lot more dirt, burrs and so on. 

If you only brush the top of the coat, it won't do much, you need to part the coat and work a comb/brush from the skin out, section by section to get the undercoat out. A greyhound comb is the best tool for the job, I also have a rake that has some longer teeth and some shorter ones, it works well to get things started as well. Bathing too will help remove hair, and if you don't have a dog blow drier, find an old vacuum that is reversable - it's not as good but it will help!

Lana


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