# Hills Prescription diet Z/D



## stevenham (Oct 7, 2010)

Scruffy has been on Z/D for a month now, and his gnawing has pretty much stopped. 
He's got a few days worth of food left, but I'm not sure if I want to buy another bag and continue with the trial. 
I know that we're suppose to do food trials for 2-3 months, but not being able to give him any treats is making training very difficult and it sucks. 
He's been eating more, but has been pooing much less as well. 

I can live with not teaching him cool tricks, but he's got a lot of work to do with house breaking and outside manners. He's 2 yrs old, so his accidents aren't puppy accidents. I've been using his kibbles, but he's no where close to being excited about them as hot dogs or the other high value treats that I used to use. I wouldn't be too excited about something I get in my food bowl everyday either. 

The protein in his food is chicken, so I at least know that he's not allergic to it. Would it be okay to start giving him bits of chicken? Should I stay on the food for another month? Or start experimenting with other foods?

Our vet is the petsmart vet (regretting that decision every day) and they seem more interested in money than the well being of my dog. I know they will tell me to keep him on the diet regardless. I just wanted a 2nd opinion.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

I know you're frustrated about this, but you've already invested a month in it - why not give it the full try? Have you tried the Hills treats made to go with the diet? They're also made with hydrolyzed chicken, which means the protein molecules have been broken down finely enough that they no longer cause irritation. If you give your dog real chicken, you'll have wasted a month of the trial. Seriously. If he's better, why not keep it up and see it through. For lifetime of relief another 8 weeks is worth it.

Here's a link for the treats to try.
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-hypoallergenic-treats-treats.html


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## stevenham (Oct 7, 2010)

Yeah, I have those, but he's not as motivated about them as he was with hot dogs. HE just doesn't seem excited about reciving these treats. He will gladly take them, but I'm not sure if he's associating it rewards. He hasn't made any progress with house breaking, and he's still been having 2-3 accidents a week in the house. It's getting hard to just ignore it.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Yeah, 2-3 times a week would make me nuts, too. Hopefully someone better at housebreaking training will chime in. All I can offer is going back to housebreaking 101 - 100% tether/supervision and crating. Could try an xpen on a floor that's easier to clean like tile or linoleum to give a break from the crate and tethering. 

Are there any toys he really likes? That can be an effective reward for pottying outside. You could rotate several toys so that it doesn't get too predictable. And by toys I'm including things you may not technically want him to have but which he loves, e.g. my dog loves to destroy paper towels, toilet paper rolls, and paper towel rolls. And plastic water bottles. Those are good rewards for her.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Maybe he would like the canned food for treats? Messy but might be tastier. I have a feeding syringe, something like that? Or slice and bake to make treats? Max loves to shred old socks. Usually he leaves our good socks alone. A cute trick that goes along with socks is pulling off socks. You might be able to increase the value of the kibble by rolling it down the hall or putting some into a water bottle. I didn't think praise could be a reinforcer but my dogs perk up when I praise them, catch him doing good stuff and praise then. I was super annoyed with snifffy dogs during walks and if I marked the leaving of the sniffy place with praise they started sniffing for a shorter time!

Completely agree with Winniec777, no chicken, stick to the program. It looks like it is working.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Kathyy said:


> Maybe he would like the canned food for treats? Messy but might be tastier. I have a feeding syringe, something like that? Or slice and bake to make treats? Max loves to shred old socks. Usually he leaves our good socks alone. A cute trick that goes along with socks is pulling off socks. You might be able to increase the value of the kibble by rolling it down the hall or putting some into a water bottle. I didn't think praise could be a reinforcer but my dogs perk up when I praise them, catch him doing good stuff and praise then. I was super annoyed with snifffy dogs during walks and if I marked the leaving of the sniffy place with praise they started sniffing for a shorter time!
> 
> Completely agree with Winniec777, no chicken, stick to the program. It looks like it is working.


I would agree with using the canned food. One thing you could try to make it less messy is putting the food in a ziploc baggie and cutting a tiny corner of it. Any time you want to treat your dog, squeeze the bag to give him a bit....like a piping bag you use for icing a cake. Most dogs will go nuts for wet food.


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## josh83 (Jan 26, 2010)

My dog use to be on Z/D and I took her off and put her on Orijen and she's been fine she has almost been on it a year not. Also Acana makes a hyopallergenic food called Apple and Lamb which may work for your dog. The one problem with canned food that I've heard is it tends to be more expensive and causes there teeth to be more dirty.

I am no Vet these are just things that have worked for me.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Canned food does not make teeth more or less dirty. Kibble is actually not as good for a dog's teeth as many have been led to think. Since a dog's teeth are designed to tear and rip meat from bones, they are not designed to crush kibble. As a result, bits of kibble get pushed in between teeth and into the gumline causing plaque and tartar to build up. The best thing to clean your dog's teeth is to give raw meaty bones a couple times a week or brush teeth daily.

Anyway, it is more expensive as it has more moisture so it is less nutrient dense. As a result, you have to feed more. But it is more digestible and palatable than kibble. I still would continue with the food trial. If you wanted to try another food after the food trial, I would suggest a food with a single source protein like Natural Balance's Venison and Potato. This is so that it may be possible to pinpoint the type of protein your dog can or cannot tolerate.

I work at an animal hospital and most dogs in similar situation go on food trials for 100 days. But most clients don't comply. I know one couple euthanized their 6 year old dog due to food allergies but they are the ones who didn't comply. Anyway, I digress. Good luck with the z/d hope it helps.


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## Angel's_mom (May 26, 2010)

Oh, that is so sad that that family euthanized their dog because of food allergies. As a mom of 5 (2-legged) kids and a dog, it would be very hard for us to fully comply with a food trial, as my kids are always leaving bits of food out and Angel gets it. I could always gate her out of the main eating areas but I have a feeling food would find its way to her mouth anyway. I tell my kids, "Do NOT give her anything to eat, she gets plenty". And then I turn around and my 15 yr old is giving her half a peanut butter sandwich.:suspicious:


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## josh83 (Jan 26, 2010)

flipgirl said:


> Canned food does not make teeth more or less dirty. Kibble is actually not as good for a dog's teeth as many have been led to think. Since a dog's teeth are designed to tear and rip meat from bones, they are not designed to crush kibble. As a result, bits of kibble get pushed in between teeth and into the gumline causing plaque and tartar to build up. The best thing to clean your dog's teeth is to give raw meaty bones a couple times a week or brush teeth daily.
> 
> 
> 
> http://dogfoodchat.com/wet-or-dry-dog-food/


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

$82 for a sack of potatoes? good lord 0_O and I thought Orijen was expensive. If your dog isnt allergic to chicken, theres tons of healthier options, like the new California Natural grain free(unless your dog is allergic to peas or sunflower oil):
http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/default.asp?id=1714


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## HORSEandHOUND (May 28, 2009)

you can make yummy treats from ZD canned (or any canned for that matter)
remove the loaf of canned food, and spread it about 1/2" thick on a pam'd cookie sheet
bake at 375* until it's the texture you want. 
I make "brownies" for my guys out of canned food, oat flour, eggs and canola oil. 

also, just because ZD contains chicken does not mean your dog is NOT allergic to chicken. Follow me here for a second. ZD uses hydrolyzed proteins, which is a fancy way of saying they've been chemically "partially digested" An allergic response is an immune response to undigested proteins. The body views these proteins as invaders, and "fights them off" the hydrolyzed don't look the same to the immune system so they go ignored. therefore your dog could be deathly allergic to chicken and not have a problem with the hydrolyzed chicken in ZD.


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## Angel's_mom (May 26, 2010)

So, this food trial doesn't really tell you whether the dog is allergic to chicken or not?


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## stephwoods63 (Nov 17, 2010)

I would just try a true elimination diet and start adding in 'real food' as you go to see where the intolerance/allergy is. Maybe 50% turkey, or white fish and 50% sweet potatoes for 2 weeks, then add in green beans, flaxseed, carrots, etc. to identify the allergy. Balance It has a good multi vitamin you can add in. It sounds like it was a grain allergy to begin with (was there ear infections, too?). I wouldn't keep my dog on Science Diet for too long, there are lots of great 'sensitive' commercial diets out there.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Angel's_mom, exactly. All it does is clean out the bad reaction so there is a fresh start. The theory is if you feed a new protein when the dog is in active allergic reaction the gut is going to start reacting to the new protein same as the old and there you have another allergy. 

stephwoods63, I would try an elimination diet after the Z/D period is done too. Sassy mostly had a flea allergy but she was better off on a plain chicken/beef/pork/lamb/rice food than she was on kibble. Any kibble, even the best of them, has a lot of extras in there. I have time, energy and enough money to do this, many people don't have those resources. If the dog could eat a cheaper meat like ground beef, pork or chicken then cooking would cost less than Z/D but many proteins cost the earth.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

I would finish the full trial on the Z/D, then add proteins one at a time. 

I don't use food rewards for housetraining, but I'd give the canned food a try..either on its own or baked into treats as suggested above


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## josh83 (Jan 26, 2010)

Perscription dog food diets are a total scam: http://www.soggypaws.com/Documents/prescription_diet.pdf


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Z/D would be one that I might try if the dog really was in trouble though. I could buy hydrolzed whey protein but what else to offer? I was scared enough to just feed food lower in phosphorus.

My vet gave me a few recipes to use to make food for Sassy when she needed low phosphorus food. Not everybody has the resources to make food for the dog even if it would be cheaper and more nourishing than the sawdust, pork liver, odd bits of grain that go into those 'prescription' kibbles. The better dog food companies are making simple kibbles now, that is a start.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

josh83 said:


> flipgirl said:
> 
> 
> > Canned food does not make teeth more or less dirty. Kibble is actually not as good for a dog's teeth as many have been led to think. Since a dog's teeth are designed to tear and rip meat from bones, they are not designed to crush kibble. As a result, bits of kibble get pushed in between teeth and into the gumline causing plaque and tartar to build up. The best thing to clean your dog's teeth is to give raw meaty bones a couple times a week or brush teeth daily.
> ...


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## AprilMorn (Dec 7, 2010)

What was the reason you started using the Z/D anyway. Was he allergic to a food brand, a particular food or something else? Or are you just trying to narrow it down? My vet started me on the Z/D diet when my dog started chewing his paws a lot. Actually the reason was a fungus, nothing to do with food. I also gave him a benadryl daily and that seem to help with the allergies.


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