# I lied about my dog's breed today



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

So I was walking my maremma today and was stopped by this couple. The lady was all over him and the husband was very interested. Then the lady started saying how they've been looking for their first dog and wanted to know what breed he was. I asked if they ever had dogs before, she used to have a maltese and he grew up with a jack russell. I thought to myself that if I tell them what breed he is, they're going to go to some BYB of maremmas and get a pup because they sell to anyone and get themselves into all sorts of trouble. So I told them he was Golden Retriever X unknown. They got so excited and started talking about maybe getting a golden. I felt bad for lying and love discussing the breed with people but didn't want to risk it.


----------



## LoveCWCs (Oct 21, 2011)

I lie about Opal's breed all the time. People are fascinated by her: they love her huge ears, her color, how friendly she is (once she warms up). 

Cardigans are a relatively unknown breed, and so I tell people she's just some random mutt and that I have no idea what she is. 

Or, I let people make up their own stories, which is usually more amusing. One person told me that she *for sure* was a pit bull/border collie mix. One person said she thought Opal was an australian shepherd (maybe because she's blue).


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

Sometimes it's the best way to go... it's rude but you know what... if someone is going to base their breed off what they see walking around town, they really haven't done their homework. I can't tell you how many breed books, breed sites I've read.... and I still am learning about new breeds every day. You can't do enough homework when you pick out a furry family member... I mean you don't pick our spouses on the internet from a picture.... why your dogs? (ok, some do both... LOL)


----------



## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Hm.. not sure why you wouldn't choose to educate rather than misguide. Who says any of these people wouldn't do their research? I also don't see what's wrong with liking a dog for its looks.. I think the Koolie looks AMAZING, I could never have one, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be fawning all over one I saw in person lol.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

WheatenDaneMom said:


> Sometimes it's the best way to go... it's rude but you know what... if someone is going to base their breed off what they see walking around town, they really haven't done their homework. I can't tell you how many breed books, breed sites I've read.... and I still am learning about new breeds every day. You can't do enough homework when you pick out a furry family member... I mean you don't pick our spouses on the internet from a picture.... why your dogs? (ok, some do both... LOL)


I dunno, I picked out Kit on the internet from this picture:









It was posted on petfinder. I think that's an acceptable way to pick out a dog, provided that you do some breed research, meet the dog, etc.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

I picked out my Maremma ont he internet after researching and talkign to the breeder at length. When I was satisfied I paid and had him flown down. Never regretted it, one of the most stable dogs i've met.


----------



## Wag_More (Jun 7, 2011)

As far as whether picking out a dog based on a picture or appearance, to each their own I suppose (I prefer to meet the dog, but then I also purchased a puppy with no information (at the time) on her breed, so that's basically akin to choosing by appearance as well.) 

Being interested in a dog because of the appearance isn't a problem, but its certainly a good idea to look into the breed.. which isn't always done.. I ran into a very exhausted and frazzled looking lady at Petsmart once. She had a beautiful brown and white English Spaniel on the end of a leash. The dog was skittering across the linoleum, slipping and sliding in every direction, grabbing everything in sight and generally taking her on a high-energy joyride. I expressed to her fondness for Spaniels, and reminisced about how equally energetic _my_ spaniel had been. She responded "If I had known I wouldn't have gotten her. Me and my husband didn't know anything about them, we just saw one in a dog park and liked the way they looked" exact words. I hope she worked it out, they're wonderful dogs.

And GottaLuvMutts, that is an exceptionally good looking dog! Who couldn't take home a face like that?


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

I didn't mean a particular dog, I meant a particular breed...


----------



## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Wag_More said:


> And GottaLuvMutts, that is an exceptionally good looking dog! Who couldn't take home a face like that?


Thanks. I'd been obsessively searching petfinder for weeks, and I swear my heart skipped a beat when I saw that pic. Nearly three years later, I still can't believe what a fabulous dog I picked out - she's one in a million.

More on topic, I'm with CoverTune here. Educate, don't misguide. Tell the truth about what kind of dog you have, but make the people see both sides - the good and the bad. I know nothing about maremmas, but every breed has good sides and bad sides to it. 

If someone asked me about my dog, I'd try determine what kind of owner they'd make, and then tailor my response accordingly. For someone who could handle her, I'd say "BC mix. Enthusiastic, athletic, happy, loves everyone" For someone who couldn't I'd say "BC mix. Very high energy, obsessive, needs mental and physical stimulation daily". Kit is intense enough that she'd prove my point either way.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I'll be honest, there've been a couple times I haven't corrected people about my dogs' breed. Not for any particular reason, I just don't want to come across snotty. I feel like a lot of times that I say 'Well actually, they're papillons...' it comes across as snobby. 

Just yesterday, in fact, a couple were fawning over Summer and when they were done petting her, the girl said 'I really love pomeranians.' I didn't correct her, just thanked her for loving on Summer, who was eating it up. Maybe that's wrong, I dunno. It's just much less of a hassle that way.

I've never called them a breed they are not, however. I don't think I'd ever do that.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

I guess I wasn't in the mood for chatting as i had to PTS my other dog yesterday and know people pretty well and knew if I told them there was a good chance they'd go and get one.


----------



## LoveCWCs (Oct 21, 2011)

The way I look at it, the people who need to have a cardigan will find their way to the breed like I did. 

On the off chance that I meet someone who I feel would be a good fit for the breed, then I do and have educated extensively and gone as far to give out my mentor's card.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I "picked" Chester out because of a photo... well, that is what drew me to the shelter and his personality won me over once I there. If someone asks his breed, I usually say either "Rhodesian Ridgeback mix" or "the kind you get from the shelter" depending on the context of someone asking. I can understand not wanting to get into a deep discussion with strangers, but I also am open to talking more about Chester's personality and needs (which are typical Ridgeback, part of why I guess that as his dominate breed) 

I also currently have a Pit Bull foster and am getting all the attention and flack that comes with that. Ranging from people admiring her (as in "Wow, she's pretty, I have an AmStaff and they are great dogs too") to quotes like "You got any others for sale?" and one woman who had been saying how nice the pup was and how much she liked bull dogs and how this other bull dog she met was great until someone informed her that Luna was a Pit and then she suddenly backed away and became quite subdued...

My vote is towards a quick little sound bite.. something like "Yep, he's a ______ and they are great but oh boy, do you need to know that they are ______"
My example is that I say "Yeah, as far as I know he's a Ridgeback. They are great if you are looking for an active dog that loves to hunt and run. Cats and squirrels better watch out." It is enough to warn off the people who just think oh, pretty, and enough to start a conversation with someone who might really be interested. And oddly, I've actually ran into a Ridgeback breeder who started laughing and agreeing with me when I said that...


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

i guess I should have told them, however i was feeling so bad about my other dog dying yesterday i sorted of just wanted to zone, so i walke dinasecluded area and people still stopped me, I didn't feel like talking so I guess I just told them something that required no real conversation, as I'm on the verge of crying constantly and was afraid I was going to break down.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

stationgirl said:


> i guess I should have told them, however i was feeling so bad about my other dog dying yesterday i sorted of just wanted to zone, so i walke dinasecluded area and people still stopped me, I didn't feel like talking so I guess I just told them something that required no real conversation, as I'm on the verge of crying constantly and was afraid I was going to break down.


Honestly, if you wanted to tell strangers to eff off, there isn't really anything wrong with that IMO. You are having a bad time, you are not required to deal with them. They will get over it. If you wanted to talk about your breed, great, if not, then its not like you have to or anything


----------



## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

CoverTune said:


> Hm.. not sure why you wouldn't choose to educate rather than misguide. Who says any of these people wouldn't do their research? I also don't see what's wrong with liking a dog for its looks.. I think the Koolie looks AMAZING, I could never have one, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be fawning all over one I saw in person lol.


I agree. You don't know these people at all... But I also get what you mean when you say that too many people get dogs for the wrong reason. Just a few days ago I met this young lady in our neighborhood who went to the pound to get a small dog and came home with this giant 8 months old pit bull/labrador mix, who was slightly anxious and fearful. First time owner. She said she just fell in love with him. I thought to myself that this dog likely will end up at the pound again. Unless... she takes an interest, does her homework on both breeds and starts working with this pup. Didn't sound like it though.


----------



## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

stationgirl said:


> i guess I should have told them, however i was feeling so bad about my other dog dying yesterday i sorted of just wanted to zone, so i walked in a secluded area and people still stopped me, I didn't feel like talking so I guess I just told them something that required no real conversation, as I'm on the verge of crying constantly and was afraid I was going to break down.


Well sometimes you just have to do whatever gets you through the moment. You were courteous, plus gave good advice concerning goldens. That's good enough for random strangers especially at a time like this.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Come on guys, doesn't he look like a GoldenX to you. lol









(he just had a brush excuse the amount of hair behind him, somebody is moulting)


----------



## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

I don't think you were doing anybody any harm in calling him a golden mix. If that couple decide to get a golden now hopefully they will research goldens anyways before getting one. But it's not like these people absolutely NEED a maremma and you've just ruined all the chances of them getting one. If they were meant to have one they'll get one! But maybe a golden is a better fit for them and you've just opened their minds to the possibility. Who knows? This couple will get the dog they want to get and there's not much you can do about it. Heck they might get another maltese, LOL!

IMO I think it would be worse if you really had a golden mix but advertised him as a maremma, so that the people you spoke to went off and got a maremma expecting it to act like a golden. Whereas a guardian breed is obviously going to be a lot different and not as easy of dog for most owners compared to a golden. I think a lot of people fall into a similar kind of trap when they meet someone who has a "wolf hybrid," that's really just like a husky/shepherd, and the owner raves about how well behaved the dog is and how perfect it is with their children. And then the person listening is mislead and actually goes out and buys a real wolfdog and gets way in over their head. THAT'S the kind of situation where it might be harmful to give out false information. 

But honestly, even though you KNOW your dog is a maremma, what if you had found your dog as a stray and really did think he was a golden mix and told that to everybody who asked? What's the harm in telling anybody that that's what he is? If it makes your conversation with a stranger easier for you, I say go for it. There have been times when I didn't feel like explaining that Basil is most likely a purebred Papillon, but that sometimes Papillons turn out bigger than standard and that's why he's so large for a Papillon. So instead I just said he's a Papillon mix. But what if he really is a Papillon mix and I've gone around all this time calling him a purebred Papillon?? Hehehe. :biggrin1:

ETA: Wow that really turned out longer than I expected, I really rambled on there, LOL!


----------



## Canaqua (Sep 27, 2011)

I don't lie about my dogs' breeds...the ACD mix looks cool and, when she was younger, was a pretty spectacular Frisbee player, she's not easily identifiable as part ACD unless you really know dogs and can spot the temperment and build. People do want to know what kind of dog she is, but she's a bit scary, no one will want to go out and get one just like her . She's to be admired from a distance. BC mix is very obviously mostly BC and most people recognize that, as they've all seen "Babe" . 

I DO lie, sometimes, about the breed of my neighbor's lovely Pitbull. He's a terrific dog, with the nicest manners (dogs and people). I take him out to walk with my dogs sometimes because neighbor is disabled. If people don't already know that he's a Pit (in which case they say how nice he is) and ask, I tell them he's a Boxer or a Boxer mix...learned my lesson, because the first time I told someone the truth, they became afraid, insisted that I "shouldn't bring that thing out in public" and generally got upset.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, I've been around people a lot and can generally work out what they're like as dog people. The girl was very very sweet and quiet and Ammo was already taking advantage of her submissive side lol. The guy had absolutely no clue because he though he was a samoyed and was very sure. With everything going on I weighed the options and took the path I thought best. Their personalities and lack of experience could not hold a LGD for long IMHO.


----------



## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

People ask me what Dexter is and how they can get one several times a day when I bring him to civilization.

I'm just honest with them. Yes he's gorgeous and appears calm in front of strangers, but he needs at least 2 hours of exercise a day. Turns most people right off.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Can't tell what your boy is from the pic?


----------



## dogfunnyvideos (Dec 12, 2011)

You shouldn't lie actually.. Just talk to them directly and you will feel better.


----------



## Zoopie (Feb 22, 2010)

stationgirl said:


> Can't tell what your boy is from the pic?


Canadian Inuit Dog (with broken ears)


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Canaqua said:


> .
> I DO lie, sometimes, about the breed of my neighbor's lovely Pitbull. He's a terrific dog, with the nicest manners (dogs and people). I take him out to walk with my dogs sometimes because neighbor is disabled. If people don't already know that he's a Pit (in which case they say how nice he is) and ask, I tell them he's a Boxer or a Boxer mix...learned my lesson, because the first time I told someone the truth, they became afraid, insisted that I "shouldn't bring that thing out in public" and generally got upset.


Why not tell them he is a Pit and let people see how terrific a Pit can be? Most of those people that are scared have probably met other nice Pits but been told they were "Boxers" or other mixes whereas meeting the occasional bad behaved Pit with an owner who brags about his tough PB means to them that all PBs are bad/scary. Unless your city has BSL against Pits, then do the breed's reputation a favor and show off that good dog 

My aunt is scared of Pit Bulls but she's been seeing all the photos of my little Pit foster curled up on my lap or playing with my dog and it is helping her see that a dog is a dog for the most part. 

I agree with Nargle that is important part is never misleading someone in a way that is likely to lead them to a dog that they can't handle, like the wolfdog example.


----------



## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

That is so sad Canaqua.

I've played around with ideas what to call our mutt, just for fun. My husband suggested "pitbull" (she's 10 lbs currently and won't get much larger). After reading your post I think that is what I will say from now on .


----------



## Canaqua (Sep 27, 2011)

Shell said:


> Why not tell them he is a Pit and let people see how terrific a Pit can be? Most of those people that are scared have probably met other nice Pits but been told they were "Boxers" or other mixes whereas meeting the occasional bad behaved Pit with an owner who brags about his tough PB means to them that all PBs are bad/scary. Unless your city has BSL against Pits, then do the breed's reputation a favor and show off that good dog
> 
> My aunt is scared of Pit Bulls but she's been seeing all the photos of my little Pit foster curled up on my lap or playing with my dog and it is helping her see that a dog is a dog for the most part.
> 
> I agree with Nargle that is important part is never misleading someone in a way that is likely to lead them to a dog that they can't handle, like the wolfdog example.


I'd like to be a Pit Bull ambassador when I'm walking this dog, but so many people are just irrational . There was a guy, with two kids, petting the dog and making a big fuss over him, until they asked what he was and I told them...the guy picked up his youngest, called the older kid away and ran! Nevermind that the kids had just been hugging the dog and he was sitting there very politely and enjoying it. There is no breed ban in my town, but I don't like calls to AC for no good reason and people will make them! Someone called on my ACD because she pooped on the grass on the edge of the sidewalk, never mind that I was bending over with my poop bag in hand at the time. I can often read people and tell who is a nutcase and who is not, if the people seem reasonable and somewhat dog aware, I'll tell them what the Pit is, though those folks usually are asking, "He's a Pit Bull isn't he?", because they do have a clue. My ACD is not friendly with strangers, so when I have both dogs, I point the want to be petters to the Pit instead. My dog has a Lassie face, she's pretty, Pit looks like a Pit...good lesson in not always judging on appearances .


----------



## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

Shell said:


> Why not tell them he is a Pit and let people see how terrific a Pit can be? Most of those people that are scared have probably met other nice Pits but been told they were "Boxers" or other mixes whereas meeting the occasional bad behaved Pit with an owner who brags about his tough PB means to them that all PBs are bad/scary. Unless your city has BSL against Pits, then do the breed's reputation a favor and show off that good dog


It's exhausting sometimes. I remember both with my AmStaff and my Staffie. I was such an advocate for the breed and would argue what seemed for hours with people. Sometimes it's just easier to fib. Unless the person is a pittie enthusiast, they will ask the same questions, and many will argue with you and then there are the ones who say something nasty or act all indignant because they feel you just put them in mortal danger.


----------



## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

It'd be pretty much impossible for me to lie about Busters breed. Most people recognize a Saint Bernard when they see one. A few have asked if he's mixed with something (usually Great Dane since he's tall & thin) and once someone asked if he was a bear. 

I opt to educate those that think they want a Saint after meeting Buster, starting with the gross factor. Shedding- twice a year my 140lb dog blows his coat. Daily grooming is required (20-30 minutes at a time) as is daily vacuuming/sweeping. I still end up with fuzzy carpets and fur blowing around the hard floors or caught under edges of furniture. Drool- absolutely not a breed to get if you cant handle drool. Drool in the bottom of water bowls, drool on the floors, drool on clothes, drool on the ceilings...and even drool on the TV. All it takes is a shake of that massive head and the drool flies, hitting every imaginable surface. If they make it past that without turning green I'll touch on the financial side, these dogs are expensive. A routine vet visit can push up to $300, "urgent care" such as the skin & ear infections he's prone to due to his allergies can be close to $200 (and I live in a fairly inexpensive area). He goes through a 30lb bag of food every 3 weeks and can not eat anything with grains, poultry, eggs or lamb. Since many locally feed their dogs for $20 or less per month, $50 every 3 weeks for a "special diet" sounds insane (Buster eats TOTW Pacific Stream). Very rarely will anyone want details of what happens should he get into something containing his allergens...staph infections, ear infections, diarrhea, refusal to eat, weight loss (oh yeah, and more $$ at the vet).


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

If somebody had warned me about Plott hounds, it's unlikely Esther would be living with us now.

Sometimes ignorance works out just fine when it meets persistence.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

AgentP said:


> It's exhausting sometimes. I remember both with my AmStaff and my Staffie. I was such an advocate for the breed and would argue what seemed for hours with people. Sometimes it's just easier to fib. Unless the person is a pittie enthusiast, they will ask the same questions, and many will argue with you and then there are the ones who say something nasty or act all indignant because they feel you just put them in mortal danger.


Hmm, I've never considered arguing with strangers for hours over ANYTHING. If someone starts to act nasty, just walk away. If they get scared, just politely give them a "Well, we'll be finishing our walk now, have a nice day" and move on. Maybe later they think "Gee, that dog wasn't so bad" and maybe they don't. At that point, it ain't your problem.


----------



## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

Shell said:


> Hmm, I've never considered arguing with strangers for hours over ANYTHING. If someone starts to act nasty, just walk away. If they get scared, just politely give them a "Well, we'll be finishing our walk now, have a nice day" and move on. Maybe later they think "Gee, that dog wasn't so bad" and maybe they don't. At that point, it ain't your problem.


What can I say, I was in my 20s and argumentative lol. No, just so passionate about them. Especially when I was involved in rescue. I wouldn't do that today, but it still annoys me when people make ignorant comments and I can understand the OP for not wanting to do the whole "Spiel" of explaining about the breed. It might not take hours but it does take some time to make your point and explain about them.


----------



## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Stationgirl I totally wouldn't judge what you did - given the "mood" you were in. Sorry to hear about your dog by the way. Although, if it were me and of course I was feeling chatty enough.. I would inform people of the breed, but thats not really relevant. You probably did the couple a favor in the end. I don't know anything about Maremma's but by the looks of yours it seems as though the breed could have some "high" demands, much like other breeds I suppose LOL.

I used to get stopped by people all the time about Cash, people always wanted to know what he was (either people had no clue, or they knew..never guessed), and I know that the breed is a good all around dog for any type of owner so I recommended them and bragged them up big time, and, I got my breeder some business and ran into the new Shiba owners at dog parks and they were so happy with the dog! So I felt like I did a good thing..

However with my Kelpie mix, Cash is definitely out of the spotlight now, everyone gravitates to Thumper, and I always feel the urge to correct people because the breed guesses just blow my mind - "OMG what a cute miniature pinscher!!" - WHAT!?! Then I USUALLY just say he's "australian Kelpie" becuase you can imagine how annoying it is to sit there and tell a stranger he's "australian kelpie with a bit of border collie, australian shepherd.." Anyway, people here have no Idea what a Kelpie is, most have never heard or seen one here and they are extremely rare in Alberta, most live on farms and are usually mixes with heelers or BC's, and are never seen walking down the street or at the dog park, and there are no breeders here so fortunately I don't have to worry about someone going and buying one, and I would definitely never recommend someone buying a Kelpie based on thier beautiful looks and perfect size lol - because there's a lot more to these dogs than meets the eye as I'm sure you know!! LOL. Its just funny some of the wild breed guesses Thumper gets all the time. His agility/obedience trainer didn't believe he was either Kelpie or Border collie, she initially thought doberman mix.


----------



## ReneeandSlayer (Dec 8, 2011)

Canaqua said:


> I don't lie about my dogs' breeds...the ACD mix looks cool and, when she was younger, was a pretty spectacular Frisbee player, she's not easily identifiable as part ACD unless you really know dogs and can spot the temperment and build. People do want to know what kind of dog she is, but she's a bit scary, no one will want to go out and get one just like her . She's to be admired from a distance. BC mix is very obviously mostly BC and most people recognize that, as they've all seen "Babe" .
> 
> I DO lie, sometimes, about the breed of my neighbor's lovely Pitbull. He's a terrific dog, with the nicest manners (dogs and people). I take him out to walk with my dogs sometimes because neighbor is disabled. If people don't already know that he's a Pit (in which case they say how nice he is) and ask, I tell them he's a Boxer or a Boxer mix...learned my lesson, because the first time I told someone the truth, they became afraid, insisted that I "shouldn't bring that thing out in public" and generally got upset.


 I understand why you did what you did, but I have a point of view to offer on that. Please do not take offense as I am not being hostile. I would NEVER lie about the dog being a pit bull or not. That is an excellent example of the breed and with BSL lurking on most peoples doorsteps, meeting a friendly pit bull might be just the sort of thing some people need to help swing them to our side. My pit bull is ALWAYS getting compliments on her amazing behavior, and when people tell me how lovely my "black lab" is, I explain to them that she is a pit bull. Sure, it has gotten some negative feedback, but I just remind them, the dog is the same dog she was before you knew her breed.


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

When people make comments about breeds to me I always so.... did you know the most aggressive dog in america is the chihuahua? (and by aggressive it means the most documents animal to human bites)

I don't have to lie about Brody's breed.... only 3 people have guessed correctly... ever (and two worked at Petsmart)


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

stationgirl said:


> Come on guys, doesn't he look like a GoldenX to you. lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This picture reminds me of just why I love mountain dogs  

I don't think you were doing something wrong when telling them he was a golden retriever mix. People will buy it anyway; not many are familiar with LGDs and nowadays Golden Retrievers come in white(ish) too. If they're intent on getting a dog like him, they're probably better off with a Golden Retriever. 

Then again, there are also people out there who think they've adopted a Golden Retriever and really ended up with an LGD. I guess that's the other way around  
There came this huge, robust, stark white, longhaired dog on a street barbecue a year ago. I was super impressed and thought I knew the breed... but the Slovensky Cuvac, Tatra & Maremma do look alike a lot, so I asked just to be sure. They told me it was a Golden Retriever. Well...  That was definitely not a Golden retriever. 
Anyway, this story makes me sure of the fact that people can and will mistake LGDs for Golden retriever (mixes).


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

RonE said:


> If somebody had warned me about Plott hounds, it's unlikely Esther would be living with us now.
> 
> Sometimes ignorance works out just fine when it meets persistence.


I trained a Plott (only one) he was a nice dog. Come to think of it he was the persistent one, I also had it covered though, as I was the Ignorant one, worked out fine.


----------



## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

ReneeandSlayer said:


> I understand why you did what you did, but I have a point of view to offer on that. Please do not take offense as I am not being hostile. I would NEVER lie about the dog being a pit bull or not. That is an excellent example of the breed and with BSL lurking on most peoples doorsteps, meeting a friendly pit bull might be just the sort of thing some people need to help swing them to our side. My pit bull is ALWAYS getting compliments on her amazing behavior, and when people tell me how lovely my "black lab" is, I explain to them that she is a pit bull. Sure, it has gotten some negative feedback, but I just remind them, the dog is the same dog she was before you knew her breed.


I can understand not wanting to tell people to you have a pit bull though when there is no chance of education because some people are just plain irrational. Like the guy who picked up his children and took off running after he found out that he had just been petting a pit bull, even though the dog was acting perfectly well behaved. And there are also sick twisted people that hear that you have a pit bull and decide that you are harboring a menace to the community and decide to toss poisoned meat over your fence. 

I just think that one should use their best judgement when it comes to the individual situation. If you have an opportunity to educate and you take it, that's great! But if you feel the best way to keep everybody sane is to lie about your dog's breed, that's perfectly acceptable too. 



WheatenDaneMom said:


> When people make comments about breeds to me I always so.... did you know the most aggressive dog in america is the chihuahua? (and by aggressive it means the most documents animal to human bites)
> 
> I don't have to lie about Brody's breed.... only 3 people have guessed correctly... ever (and two worked at Petsmart)


I REALLY don't like when people make false statements about other breeds to try to make pit bulls and such look better... Its just spreading more prejudice and ignorance. Instead of making people think twice about putting pit bulls on the BSL list, now you'll just have chihuahuas joining them shortly! There is already plenty of unfair stereotyping about small dogs going on. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people tell me "Eugh, you have a small dog? I hate those nasty little ankle biters."


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

I lie about my dog being a dog... 

It bothers me to no end... "Why don't you put a saddle on that thing and ride it". "That's not a dog, that's a horse!"
I know they're trying to be funny and creative but it's not... one day I am just going to come back with something snarky like "A saddle huh, maybe your wife will let me borrow one from her thighs"

That would be mean... LOL. Funny, creative... LOL


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

I'm sorry Nargle if I offended you, did I lie??

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/li_yippers_big_nippers_EsuEAx5j7TkzZArVFttI0J

No... there are plenty of studies and articles on such behavior.

I read an article several years back that small dogs bite 10x more than large breed documented cases... but the fact is they do little damage and 90% go unreported.


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

TOP TEN MOST AGGRESSIVE DOGS:

http://www.ehow.com/list_6011449_top-10-aggressive-dogs.html

The daschund being first and the chihuahua being second... (the article I read many years ago had the chihuahua first)... pit bull isn't even on the list.


----------



## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Wheatendanemom, that is just more ignorance and prejudice. That is no proof that "chihuahuas are the most aggressive breed." Chihuahuas are NOT an aggressive breed even if there are aggressive chihuahuas out there. There are aggressive members of EVERY breed out there, but because they are such a popular breed and there are so many of them, and because ignorant people believe that small dogs don't need any training, it gives them a bad image and spoils it for the rest of us. I'm sure that there are plenty of chihuahua owners on this very forum that can prove to you that you are incorrect. Also, if you want to go off bite stats and such to "prove" certain breeds are supposedly "aggressive breeds," how is that any better than doing the exact same thing to vilify pit bulls and other supposedly aggressive breeds? There ARE aggressive pit bulls out there, but blanket statements that they are an "aggressive breed" is what landed them on BSL lists and is what's causing the owners of so many well behaved, perfectly safe pit bulls so much heartache and grief.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

I think a better way to name that list would be, "breed with the most bites registered"


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Wheatendanemom, that is just more ignorance and prejudice. That is no proof that "chihuahuas are the most aggressive breed." Chihuahuas are NOT an aggressive breed even if there are aggressive chihuahuas out there. There are aggressive members of EVERY breed out there, but because they are such a popular breed and there are so many of them, and because ignorant people believe that small dogs don't need any training, it gives them a bad image and spoils it for the rest of us. I'm sure that there are plenty of chihuahua owners on this very forum that can prove to you that you are incorrect. Also, if you want to go off bite stats and such to "prove" certain breeds are supposedly "aggressive breeds," how is that any better than doing the exact same thing to vilify pit bulls and other supposedly aggressive breeds? There ARE aggressive pit bulls out there, but blanket statements that they are an "aggressive breed" is what landed them on BSL lists and is what's causing the owners of so many well behaved, perfectly safe pit bulls so much heartache and grief.


Agreed. For one, I am not going to trust "ehow.com" for its statistics 
Secondly, math.... the higher the number of dogs of any given breed, the greater the number of them that COULD bite. 

Bite statistics are notoriously unreliable because so many people don't know the breed of dog that bites them and of course, the circumstances and severity of any given bite incident are unknown or possibly suspect. Every Boxer, blocky headed Lab, etc is a "pit bull" and every long haired dog is "German Shepherd" in the eyes of the news media and the uninformed.

A dog that bites a single bite because a [email protected] teenager is poking at him, taunting him and slapping at him is NOT an aggressive dog. A dog that "bites" because he touches skin when grabbing for a treat held in a hand is NOT an aggressive dog. Someone that gets bit breaking up a dog fight by reaching for a collar is not the target of aggression for example. A truly unprovoked, not accidental bite is a different story,


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

I've never personally met a bad pit bull in my life. And for the record I am a well educated, considerate, non-prejudice person - who happens to say things in ironic and convoluted ways. It's part of my charm  I don't take much seriously and know when to get upset when it's important to do so. If my posts and responses strike a nerve with you, I do apologize, it's not an intent of mine do so, but you're probably better off ignoring me than to take anything I say overly serious.


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

Stationgirl... a good way to put it.


----------



## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

WheatenDaneMom said:


> I've never personally met a bad pit bull in my life. And for the record I am a well educated, considerate, non-prejudice person - who happens to say things in ironic and convoluted ways. It's part of my charm  I don't take much seriously and know when to get upset when it's important to do so. If my posts and responses strike a nerve with you, I do apologize, it's not an intent of mine do so, but you're probably better off ignoring me than to take anything I say overly serious.


Just trying to state why I do not approve of the "You think pit bulls are aggressive, well let me tell you about X breed!" tactic in trying to show people that pit bulls are not aggressive. It just seems hypocritical and backwards, because in reality you're perpetuating BSL more than you are arguing against it. There are many more effective tactics to use.

So many people use this tactic in an effort to help educate and IMO it does more harm than good.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

I think it's less pulling away from pitbulls and more perspective. Yes pitbulls bite but so do heaps of other dogs, pitbulls just look scary on the TV so they use them as media fodder to heighten mass hysteria. In australia Maltese terrier are deemed the most aggressive breed and most dumped for aggressive reasons in shelters. So as long as a happy pitbull is there as an example of the brilliance of the breed and another breed or breeds are used as a perspective tool then I don't see the harm.


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

The truth is... all dogs are capable of being aggressive. All dogs have the ability to defend and cause physical harm. Just like all humans can kill. If put into a certain situation and given no other option, one would kill to protect themselves and ones they love. The reason I am not arguing against it... it's simply true.

And a worse truth is, it's almost always a human's fault. People get small breed dogs because they're cute and portable. They have small bowels, they can drive around with them, they're light fit into carriers, they have clothing options... they're the perfect accessory.

% to %... a large breed owner is more likely to bring their dog to obedience training, than a small breed owner. That is because a lot of small breed owners are ignorant... they want a dog not as a companion, or to serve a purpose... but to accessorize themselves. (NOT ALL... but plenty) therefor there are a lot of poorly bred, poorly trained small breeds who have the "large dog syndrome" or the "ankle biter" phrase glued to their forheads. 

It's unfortunate, but it's reality. Not knowing all of this... is ignorance.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Where's the "like" button?


----------



## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Gottaluvmutts>>> is that the same dog that is catching the frisbee in your avatar pic? 

I have never lied about my dogs breeds bc everyone knows cattle dogs around these parts but I always make sure that anyone who asks knows that these dogs aren't for everyone & in the wrong H's Ed they can be monsters lol.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

WheatenDaneMom said:


> I'm sorry Nargle if I offended you, did I lie??
> 
> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/li_yippers_big_nippers_EsuEAx5j7TkzZArVFttI0J
> 
> No... there are plenty of studies and articles on such behavior.


Well, yes, if that article is supposed to back up your claim that chihuahuas are responsible for most of the documented dog bites in America... since that article is about dog bites in New York City. :/



WheatenDaneMom said:


> TOP TEN MOST AGGRESSIVE DOGS:
> 
> http://www.ehow.com/list_6011449_top-10-aggressive-dogs.html
> 
> The daschund being first and the chihuahua being second... (the article I read many years ago had the chihuahua first)... pit bull isn't even on the list.


LOL, ehow with dogbreedinfo as one of its THREE references and no reliable dog bite data to back it up... but it must be true, because it's on the internet. -.-




WheatenDaneMom said:


> And a worse truth is, it's almost always a human's fault. People get small breed dogs because they're cute and portable. They have small bowels, they can drive around with them, they're light fit into carriers, they have clothing options... they're the perfect accessory.
> 
> % to %... a large breed owner is more likely to bring their dog to obedience training, than a small breed owner. That is because a lot of small breed owners are ignorant... they want a dog not as a companion, or to serve a purpose... but to accessorize themselves. (NOT ALL... but plenty) therefor there are a lot of poorly bred, poorly trained small breeds who have the "large dog syndrome" or the "ankle biter" phrase glued to their forheads.
> 
> It's unfortunate, but it's reality. Not knowing all of this... is ignorance.


The last line, in light of the first two paragraphs, just made my irony meter explode.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Also, the NUMBER of recorded dog bites for any breed is nearly useless information. What would really be useful would be the rates of bites/population of a given breed.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Shell said:


> Bite statistics are notoriously unreliable because so many people don't know the breed of dog that bites them and of course, the circumstances and severity of any given bite incident are unknown or possibly suspect. Every Boxer, blocky headed Lab, etc is a "pit bull" and every long haired dog is "German Shepherd" in the eyes of the news media and the uninformed.


And anything <20 lbs is a chihuahua

I HATE the small dog stereotype. I don't think there's a single way to prove that small dog owners are more this or that compared to large breed owners. In fact... I plain don't buy it. All I ever hear about this is so and so's story about some small breed they saw one day. There are several breeds I've had repeatedly bad encounters with over the years. What does it really mean? Not much when you think about the amount of labs in the world versus the ones I've had bad experiences with. I've had many problem encounters with dogs in the past ranging from a chihuahua to a great dane where the dog wasn't controlled by it's owner. 

Also, I really try not to judge if a person's dog is acting up and barking or snapping as long as it's being kept at a safe distance. When I had my foster terrier and I had to take her into the vet's office, she was a hellion. It was awful and embarrassing but what can you do? The dog had no manners or training, didn't seem to be leash broke at all. Who knows why the dog is acting like a lunatic. Could be something out of the owner's hands. Or maybe it's something they're working on, too. You never know.

I can't count the times that I've had a larger dog rush up to me then my dog snaps and all of a sudden my dog is being 'aggressive'. It's ridiculous. It's not a napoleon complex, it's a dog being reactive and scared and defending itself in the only way they can. They KNOW if push comes to shove, they're small and they will lose. So they put on a show and try to keep whatever is scary away. It's in no way aggression. I would be willing to bet a lot of the small dogs with bite records are dogs that have been mishandled and then bit. The papillon I thought about adopting before I got Mia had a bite history but from what I heard the kids were being extremely rough with him. NOT an aggressive dog.

I don't even know where to begin with this one:



> People get small breed dogs because they're cute and portable. They have small bowels, they can drive around with them, they're light fit into carriers, they have clothing options... they're the perfect accessory.


LOL


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I was going to say I think it's silly to lie about your dogs breed but one time I pulled up to a stop light with Jack in the car and the guy next to me looked super pleased with him and shouted "What kind of dog is that?" and the light had just turned green so I yelled "The best dog!" and drove away. I guess I ain't lied yet.


----------



## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> And anything <20 lbs is a chihuahua
> 
> 
> 
> I can't count the times that I've had a larger dog rush up to me then my dog snaps and all of a sudden my dog is being 'aggressive'. It's ridiculous. It's not a napoleon complex, it's a dog being reactive and scared and defending itself in the only way they can. They KNOW if push comes to shove, they're small and they will lose. So they put on a show and try to keep whatever is scary away. It's in no way aggression.


Exxxxxactly. I've experienced this a ton too. People who have big friendly dogs let their dog come running up to us, all the while saying "Oh don't worry he's friendly! He LOVES little dogs". Well that's all well and good, but your typical self-preserving little dog does NOT like 75 lbs of exuberance running up to them. She doesn't think she's big, she's quite aware that she's small--that's why she's reacting like that.


----------



## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

WheatenDaneMom said:


> And a worse truth is, it's almost always a human's fault. People get small breed dogs because they're cute and portable. They have small bowels, they can drive around with them, they're light fit into carriers, they have clothing options... they're the perfect accessory.


Geez, thanks for enlightening me. Here I thought I'd gotten small dogs because they're a lot easier to take on vacation and to take with me when I eventually move to a much bigger city. But I guess I just wanted something I could dress up and carry around!


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> Geez, thanks for enlightening me. Here I thought I'd gotten small dogs because they're a lot easier to take on vacation and to take with me when I eventually move to a much bigger city. But I guess I just wanted something I could dress up and carry around!


I was going to look into falconry with my next Dachshund but I guess I will just buy him a dress.


----------



## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I was going to look into falconry with my next Dachshund but I guess I will just buy him a dress.


And some ugg boots maybe?


----------



## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Crantastic said:


> Geez, thanks for enlightening me. Here I thought I'd gotten small dogs because they're a lot easier to take on vacation and to take with me when I eventually move to a much bigger city. But I guess I just wanted something I could dress up and carry around!


Only people who get medium and large dogs do it for the love of the breed/dog, I guess. =P


----------



## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

This is extremely lazy of me, but seeing as how I just made this argument a couple months ago (wait, what?! am I suggesting that we seem to recycle the same 10 topics on dogforums.com?! never!), I thought I'd save time and re-post it here.



CricketLoops said:


> One thing I see a lot in these kinds of threads (not just here, but in the multitudes of dog-related discussion things that I am a part of -- seriously, it's a sickness) is an undercurrent of an argument being made of "look at all THESE OTHER VICIOUS BREEDS that are WAY WORSE THAN PITS!!!" and I don't think that's an argument that we, as dog lovers, want to be making. Usually it's the beloved Labs or Goldens that get the brunt of this defense, or some of the more notoriously fiery small breeds.
> 
> I completely understand the reasoning behind it, and I strongly believe any sort of BSL is a moronic type of policy making, but think of how sometimes the arguments contradict. One argument (a GOOD argument) is that human aggression is independent of breed and has a lot more to do with the dog's direct bloodlines (for example, if it had parents or grandparents with a bite record) and with the corresponding environment (and largely the human influence, or lack of a human influence). Then, the other is that you're really more likely to get bit by a dachshund or a golden or a lab than a "pit bull type", so the legislation is completely unfair!
> 
> ...


----------



## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

WheatenDaneMom said:


> People get small breed dogs because they're cute and portable.* They have small bowels*, they can drive around with them, they're light fit into carriers, they have clothing options... they're the perfect accessory.


(Emphasis mine)

My GOD, I want a small dog now! No selling point like small bowels! I mean, if it weren't for that and the fact you could play dress up, why would anyone want a small dog?


----------



## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Bryna has small poops, and she's 55lbs. That probably comes along with feeding (mostly) raw, though. If she were a small dog, I'd probably have to use a microscope! lol


----------



## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Equinox said:


> No selling point like small bowels! I mean, if it weren't for that and the fact you could play dress up, why would anyone want a small dog?


Well, of course we have Tucker, our large main dog. But where would we be without Scout, the small emergency back-up dog?


----------



## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Pai said:


> Only people who get medium and large dogs do it for the love of the breed/dog, I guess. =P


I have to admit, I've always been a big dog kind of girl. Practical concerns led me to smaller breeds, but I managed to find a couple of breeds that fit all of my other needs/desires, besides size. I've grown to appreciate small dogs a lot more since owning them (and I love both of my dogs and will probably own both breeds again in the future), although I do miss feeling... safer, I guess, walking with a large dog -- mine just seem so small and vulnerable to me any time we get rushed by a strange dog or come across a creepy person at night (my preferred time to walk, unfortunately).

I don't know how anyone can say that all small breeds are this or that, though. Mini dachshunds and papillons and shih tzus all couldn't be more different! And I've only come across a handful of "ankle-biters" in my time -- I've probably met just as many badly-behaved larger dogs. I just kind of roll my eyes now anytime someone generalizes any group of dogs here.

Back on the topic... I don't lie about Casper's breed, but a lot of the time I can't be bothered to explain "Alaskan Klee Kai" and will just say yes when people ask if he's a mini husky. He essentially is, anyway. If someone seems really interested and wants to know more about temperament and activity level and all of that, I'll have a conversation. Joe Schmoe on the street who just says, "OMG he looks like Demon from Snow Dogs, but he's tiny! I want one!"? No.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

I own dogs ranging from 15lbs to 120lbs, as long as the dog fits my lifestyle and needs who cares about size!


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> My GOD, I want a small dog now! No selling point like small bowels! I mean, if it weren't for that and the fact you could play dress up, why would anyone want a small dog?


Why do you think I got Kuma?? Because of a Pug's amazing comical personality, incredible companionship, and lovable friendly nature? No WAY! I got him for his super tiny bowels! That, and to dress him up to accessorize my outfits! Because small dog owners would NEVER get a small dog just because they love the breed! 

It's too bad I didn't read this sooner though, I had NO idea I wasn't supposed to bother training my small accessory dog, all that TIME I wasted!


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

My point was made today. Sometimes in this community people call me up even though I don't really train any more and ask for help with their dogs, sometimes I can sometimes I can't. Today a girl i know called up and was sounding really flustered. She said she had a 2 year old maremma male, not neutered, always lived at home, never been taught basic commands, nothing to guard but them and their house and lately he's been barking day and night and tried to attack her brother and growling at the kids. I just said I couldn't help her, she wanted me to come out and give the dog a magic pill that made it stop being an unsocialised LGD.... I said the best thing to do is section of the front footpath from the dog so when you get visitors you're not risking an attack. I said that it's completely missed it's socialisation period entirely, had no direction and now it's big and you're complaining about the animal you created. They're ona big property so they can easily provide ample room away from the house when they have people over, I also suggested her brother stay away and that she neuter him as he's hit puberty. She wants pups.. I told her that was a terrible idea especially if he's exhibiting such behaviour...I told her exactly what i should have told her yet she continued to defend him the whole time, I was nice and reasonable but direct, I think she called up hoping I'd give her a list of magic fixes... GRRRRR


----------



## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm not sure what to do with Casper. He's almost 20lbs, so he's a bit too big to be a small dog, but he's not medium-sized, either. I could probably put him in a dress or at least a cute hat, but he's too heavy to stuff into a purse and carry around all the time. He's only two years old; do you think it's too late to trade him in for something smaller, like a yorkie or a maltese, perhaps?

TWAB, I didn't know that dachshunds assist in falconry! I just looked that up and read a bit about it. It sounds really cool. Are you seriously interested in doing that?


----------



## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

> I think she called up hoping I'd give her a list of magic fixes


she wants you to come over for a quick alpha roll and a "shhht!" -- that's all it takes right? home by dinnertime.


----------



## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

I will admit right out, I am slightly embarrassed at having to dress my dogs, and only do it when the weather demands it. 



> I have to admit, I've always been a big dog kind of girl. Practical concerns led me to smaller breeds, but I managed to find a couple of breeds that fit all of my other needs/desires, besides size.


That's the same case for me, too. I think I've been converted to small dogs for life now, though!


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> I'm not sure what to do with Casper. He's almost 20lbs, so he's a bit too big to be a small dog, but he's not medium-sized, either. I could probably put him in a dress or at least a cute hat, but he's too heavy to stuff into a purse and carry around all the time. He's only two years old; do you think it's too late to trade him in for something smaller, like a yorkie or a maltese, perhaps?


Absolutely! If you can't find a way to make an accessory out of him, he's no use to you! If you can get some super duper cute outfits to match your own though, you might be able to get around the fact that you can't carry him around in your purse. That's what I did with Kuma, I'd have had to get rid of him otherwise.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

DustyCrockett said:


> she wants you to come over for a quick alpha roll and a "shhht!" -- that's all it takes right? home by dinnertime.


ahahaha I have a funny story about that, I was waiting outside the store holding the dog about a year ago and made a sound similar as I was peed at the jack russell and was actually saying sh*****t but the public version and a lady i was sitting next to said "oh you communicate like the mexican" I was so confused, then about 2 hours later I figured out what she meant. Made my day! I was scratching my head thinking, who's The Mexican?


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

katielou said:


> And some ugg boots maybe?


Why does he need boots if he will never be walking? 

And to the thread at hand I forgot to ask, is it better now that they just might get a Golden from a crap breeder as long as it isn't a Maremma?


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Why does he need boots if he will never be walking?


Well, so he matches Katielou's outfit, DUH!


----------



## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

WELL GOLLY GEE. I got Aija, my pit bull, for her extraordinarily large bowel movements. That really is the only reason people get bigger dogs, for bigger poop of course.


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> WELL GOLLY GEE. I got Aija, my pit bull, for her extraordinarily large bowel movements. That really is the only reason people get bigger dogs, for bigger poop of course.


Some people are irrationally proud of their dog's huge poops.


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Smalls does not have a lot of intestines from her surgery but she can still take a mean large poop.


----------



## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Some people are irrationally proud of their dog's huge poops.


I'LL TEXT YOU A PICTURE OF IT NEXT TIME!
It will me titled "WHY I HAVE BIG DOGS".


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> I'LL TEXT YOU A PICTURE OF IT NEXT TIME!
> It will me titled "WHY I HAVE BIG DOGS".


Well, I'll do you one better! I'll text you a pic of Kuma in his designer clothes, cleverly picked to accessorize MY outfit, next to his itty bitty, little poop! You will be SO jealous!


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

We seem to have drifted away form the island of OP lol


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Why does he need boots if he will never be walking?
> 
> And to the thread at hand I forgot to ask, is it better now that they just might get a Golden from a crap breeder as long as it isn't a Maremma?


That's kind of rude, I explained my position well.


----------



## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Why does he need boots if he will never be walking?
> 
> And to the thread at hand I forgot to ask, is it better now that they just might get a Golden from a crap breeder as long as it isn't a Maremma?


Well it's not really the OPs job to hold this couple's hand through the entire process of getting a dog and make all their decisions for them. They'll get the dog they get no matter what a stranger on the sidewalk says.


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I don't question why stationgirl responded the way she did to the couple's question.

I do kind of question why there's a thread about it.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

I just thought it would be interesting to bring up the topic. Stranger topics have been brought up on this forum lol


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

I think WheatenDaneMom's post has gotten entirely out of context for the last few pages. It stated 'a lot of small breed owners' and 'NOT ALL... but plenty'. Seeing that most people on dog forums are generally very concerned with their dogs' well being, are responsible, love their dogs for being dogs and are better educated than the average joe with a dog out on the street, it's obvious the small dog owners (who have reacted with the humorous responses) fall into the category 'NOT ALL'. 
Reading the reactions made me think you felt like you had been stepped on your toes, when the original post really didn't appear to apply to you. 

In my experience, it is true that there are people who feel small dogs don't need more training other than the sit and stay, or at the very least, need less training than big dogs do because of their size. "What could they possibly do?" (in terms of causing damage) is something I've heard as argument. 

Just felt that WheatenDaneMom deserved at least a post in her favor, seeing that all those responses albeit humorous, weren't entirely fair.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I think the problem is:



> *People* get small breed dogs because they're cute and portable. They have small bowels, they can drive around with them, they're light fit into carriers, they have clothing options... they're the perfect accessory.


The fact of the matter is a lot of people use the same crap over and over again about small dogs. Even if your dog is behaving I can't count the amount of times people come up and say something rude about my dogs. It gets old. Especially when the same people are defending another breed or type with a bad stereotype. 



> In my experience, it is true that there are people who feel small dogs don't need more training other than the sit and stay, or at the very least, need less training than big dogs do because of their size. "What could they possibly do?" (in terms of causing damage) is something I've heard as argument.


It is also true in my experience that people who own goldens feel that their dogs don't need training and it's okay for them to jump all over people and drag you down the street. My neighbors never train their golden and it behaves incredibly poorly. Therefore since I've experienced it, it must be true.

I will be honest, I've known tons of small dogs and their owners. Most have been decent dog owners and had decently behaved dogs. 

Small dogs may have small bowels but has ya'lls big dogs ever pooped on a wall or in a drawer?


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

I feel like we've gone off track somewhat, how about those maremmas hey yeah those dogs... attempt failed, continue


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

Crantastic said:


> Geez, thanks for enlightening me. Here I thought I'd gotten small dogs because they're a lot easier to take on vacation and to take with me when I eventually move to a much bigger city. But I guess I just wanted something I could dress up and carry around!


I didn't say ALL owners... I am sure every small breed dog owner in this forum is not like that... but how many celebrities do you see walking around with teacup chihuahuas in their louis vuitton carriers. Look at the California shelters... they're overrun with small breed and breedx dogs.


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

I am starting to grasp that people don't believe any articles... so I surely wont post another... but in _another_ article I read it said Golden retrievers are becoming increasingly more aggressive because they're popularized as the "perfect family dog" which increased back yard breeding... and due to poor breeding, training (increased by the purchase from "new dog owners") these dogs are increasing their statistics of biting people as well.

I'm going to make Avie my honorary family member :grouphug:


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Luckily that doesn't happen in Australia


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

WheatenDaneMom said:


> I am starting to grasp that people don't believe any articles...


Well, I believe articles that 1. Are credible and 2. Say what you said they say. Which I don't think are unreasonable expectations. *shrug*


----------



## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

sassafras said:


> Also, the NUMBER of recorded dog bites for any breed is nearly useless information. What would really be useful would be the rates of bites/population of a given breed.


And a way to assure that breed ID is reliable. In one study I read (years ago) it said that large, black and tan dogs tend to be labeled German Shepherds and large stocky short haired ones pitbulls. Breed ID is often made by the victim or a police officer, who are not necessarily dog experts.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

AgentP said:


> And a way to assure that breed ID is reliable. In one study I read (years ago) it said that large, black and tan dogs tend to be labeled German Shepherds and large stocky short haired ones pitbulls. Breed ID is often made by the victim or a police officers, who are not necessarily dog experts.


Excellent point.


----------



## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> And to the thread at hand I forgot to ask, is it better now that they just might get a Golden from a crap breeder as long as it isn't a Maremma?


Good question. I'm thinking yes, given the choice it's better to recommend a poorly bred Golden than a poorly bred Maremma, but I don't have the expertise to make a definitive statement...........


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

stationgirl said:


> I feel like we've gone off track somewhat, how about those maremmas hey yeah those dogs... attempt failed, continue


 You got to make more of an attempt, don't give up so soon, lol. So as a Maremma owner, what would you say are the important differences of outward appearance between Maremmas and Golden Retrievers? 

And Laurelin, exactly! Because I've experienced it, it must be true. Obviously, since an experience is real and happening, it is truth. That doesn't mean the experience becomes THE truth. At this point, it is only true for me, my truth. After all, THE truth is only established after many, many experiences of similar nature experienced by many (all) people. For example, when I drop a pen it falls to the ground. Since many people (all) experience the same thing when they do this, it becomes THE truth. Nobody experiences a pen falling up to the clouds when they drop it. Experiences are measurements of reality, and a lot of similar experiences make reality. 

Of course, in my experience this is the truth... my truth. It may not be the truth to you, considering you have different experiences.


----------



## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

Avie said:


> And Laurelin, exactly! Because I've experienced it, it must be true. Obviously, since an experience is real and happening, it is truth. That doesn't mean the experience becomes THE truth. At this point, it is only true for me, my truth. After all, THE truth is only established after many, many experiences of similar nature experienced by many (all) people. For example, when I drop a pen it falls to the ground. Since many people (all) experience the same thing when they do this, it becomes THE truth. Nobody experiences a pen falling up to the clouds when they drop it. Experiences are measurements of reality, and a lot of similar experiences make reality.
> 
> Of course, in my experience this is the truth... my truth. It may not be the truth to you, considering you have different experiences.


Seriously, you're trying to distinguish between "your" truth and "the" truth? Sorry, I appreciate your attempt at philosophizing, but this isn't how reason works. 

The fact that "many people" have dropped a pen and all experienced it falling to the ground is not what made it "true". The fact that that one guy, Newton, created a hypothesis and then he (followed by many, many more people) actively sought to DISPROVE it and found that they couldn't, through a significant battery of tests is what makes gravity "true". 

There is a difference between "In my experience, small dogs have often been... but of course, I haven't put myself in a lot of experiences where I would meet different representatives. I've never hung out in the small side of the dog park, I've never gone to small dog national specialities or large dog shows frequented by small dogs, I've never done agility and met any of the dogs that compete in the under 8" class, I've never considered owning a small dog and haven't searched many breeder websites or met many small breed enthusiasts. So it would be wrong for me to make potentially offensive sweeping generalizations based on my limited experience."


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

It's how my reason works  I don't expect everyone else to agree with it, like you've just made clear you don't. That's because what you stated in your post, is your truth, what you believe is true. 

Yes, I do believe there is a difference between 'the' truth and personal truths. People always have their own truths; own views, beliefs, experiences, opinions. This is especially apparent on forums where people often voice their own opinions and meet resistance from other people who disagree. Your post just now, a reaction on mine, is (to me ) proof of that. Unless you want to deny that you reacted out of your own reasoning, your own views and beliefs on this subject. 
The example of the pen was an attempt to visualize what I meant--but apparently it didn't come off well. Sometimes I have trouble describing what I have in mind. 
I don't know if that last alinea was meant to describe me... but if it does, it surely does make me laugh.  

My attempt at philosophizing? Who are you to say what philosophy is and what is not? People have tried for thousands of years to figure out just what philosophy is. The answer still hasn't been found. Taking this into account, who is to say I philosophize in a bad way? Who is to say what reason is anyway. 

I'll conclude with that, since I don't think a dog forum is meant to discuss philosophy  The topic has strayed off far too much by now. (partly my own fault, apologies for that)


----------



## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Avie said:


> ... I don't think a dog forum is meant to discuss philosophy ...


huh? where else can one go for philosophical discussion, if not a dog forum?

Truth is relative anyway, and changes over time. 2,000 years ago, the earth was flat and the heavenly bodies all revolved around it. It was a scientific fact, any respectable scientist at the world's foremost centers of learning would have told you so. Had you looked it up, you could have read all about it on Wikkipedia.


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

That's right, truth is relative. Even gravity is questioned nowadays, come to think of it.


----------



## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

Avie said:


> It's how my reason works  I don't expect everyone else to agree with it, like you've just made clear you don't. That's because what you stated in your post, is your truth, what you believe is true.
> 
> Yes, I do believe there is a difference between 'the' truth and personal truths. People always have their own truths; own views, beliefs, experiences, opinions. This is especially apparent on forums where people often voice their own opinions and meet resistance from other people who disagree. Your post just now, a reaction on mine, is (to me ) proof of that. Unless you want to deny that you reacted out of your own reasoning, your own views and beliefs on this subject.
> The example of the pen was an attempt to visualize what I meant--but apparently it didn't come off well. Sometimes I have trouble describing what I have in mind.


I think I do understand the point you're trying to make, and I even think that it's a valid line of thinking. Other than personally disagreeing with you, though, I think it's pretty dishonest or ignorant or rude (depending on how aware you've decided to be about a concept of "personal truths" and "actual truths") to decide to represent your "personal truth" as the "actual truth". I think the only responsible thing to do is to make it a point to say that your "personal truth" quite probably differs from the "actual truth" and may someday stop being your "personal truth" as you have more experiences that change what is true for you. 

The only reason not to do this is because you're ignorant and believe that your "personal truth" = "actual truth" or because you think something like that is implied. That doesn't make it any less of a false, potentially offensive sweeping generalization. 



Avie said:


> I don't know if that last alinea was meant to describe me... but if it does, it surely does make me laugh.


Nope. That wasn't really directed to anyone in particular, although if I had to pick a "target", it would probably be most useful to WheatenDaneMom. Also, thank you for giving me an opportunity to figure out what "alinea" means. 



Avie said:


> My attempt at philosophizing? Who are you to say what philosophy is and what is not? People have tried for thousands of years to figure out just what philosophy is. The answer still hasn't been found. Taking this into account, who is to say I philosophize in a bad way? Who is to say what reason is anyway.


True. My phrasing may have been fueled by general frustration with small dog prejudice and, in particular, using this as a justification for why pit bulls "aren't that bad in comparison". I apologize.


----------



## ReneeandSlayer (Dec 8, 2011)

I have to chime in here. I love my pit bull, she is a lovely dog. I have met many more aggressive dogs and the size was not important since some have been huge wolf hybrid/gsd and some have been pomeranians.


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

stationgirl said:


> That's kind of rude, I explained my position well.


How was that rude? And I read your position, I just think it's lame. 



Nargle said:


> Well it's not really the OPs job to hold this couple's hand through the entire process of getting a dog and make all their decisions for them. They'll get the dog they get no matter what a stranger on the sidewalk says.


Don't recall saying it was or what the couple REALLY has to do with any thing here. I asked if it was better now that, by the OPs own fear that they MIGHT get a Maremma from a crappy breeder (the breed they own), that they might get a Golden (NOT the OPs breed) from a crap breeder.


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

Can we lock this thread already because it's starting to get childish... when you come in and start name calling, calling people out... seriously? People don't come here to get their Masters in Dog Knowledge. There are no trophies. I'm irritated with being constantly attacked because some people have no sense of humor, cannot grasp the meaning behind my posts, or just really have NOTHING better to do.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

You know what irritates ME? When people make outlandish claims with no reliable evidence to back them up, then claim that people have no sense of humor for pointing out inconsistencies in logic.


----------



## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

well I'm just a little irritated about *NO TROPHIES!!*


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

sassafras said:


> You know what irritates ME? When people make outlandish claims with no reliable evidence to back them up, then claim that people have no sense of humor for pointing out inconsistencies in logic.


Where is the like button?


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

CricketLoops, I can agree with most of what you wrote, and you're welcome for the alinea word... to be honest I don't know whether it is an actual word or not but the word comes naturally for me as it is a commonly used Dutch word. I believe a more appropriate English term would have been 'paragraph', right? 



CricketLoops said:


> I think the only responsible thing to do is to make it a point to say that your "personal truth" quite probably differs from the "actual truth" and may someday stop being your "personal truth" as you have more experiences that change what is true for you.


I do believe that personal truths change continuously throughout a human's life as one gains experience.  

You're mentioning something here I've noticed since I joined this forum, since it's so different than what I'm used to on Dutch forums. Here, people tend to make a point of explicitly stating it is their own opinion, or their own experience, or the way they see it, their views on the matter, etcetera, and that it may not necessarily reflect reality. That's not commonly seen on Dutch forums, where people voice their opinions and if that's not the case, they state the source of their so called fact. 

In other words, I view the posts in a thread and all I see are people's opinions, even if they don't explicitly state them as such. Even if someone doesn't state 'IMO', or 'the way I see it', etcetera, I don't think that person is stating actual facts. They're all just opinions. So if someone says "White Shepherds are less healthy than colored shepherds", so it's stated like it's a fact and lacks the 'I think that' or 'in my opinion', in my mind I'm still reading an opinion. 

I admit, in the time I've spent on this forum I've adjusted my own writing, adding a lot of IMO's and all those other indicators that alert people that it's my opinion and not an actual fact. But it's weird to me, because in my mind it's obvious that everything written on a forum consists of opinions and not facts, unless specifically stated otherwise  

In reaction to this: 



CricketLoops said:


> The only reason not to do this is because you're ignorant and believe that your "personal truth" = "actual truth" or because you think something like that is implied. That doesn't make it any less of a false, potentially offensive sweeping generalization.


I just want to make it clear that I am very aware of the distinction between my personal truths and actual truths. If it were up to me, I'd like you to take everything I say and view it as my opinion only, unless I specifically state otherwise  This is what I do with everyone else's posts too.


----------



## The_Monstors (Oct 1, 2010)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Well, I'll do you one better! I'll text you a pic of Kuma in his designer clothes, cleverly picked to accessorize MY outfit, next to his itty bitty, little poop! You will be SO jealous!


Oh the shame...mine have large dog sized poops. I'm so embarrassed. Hopefully if she poops in public her Gucci Fall 2012 collection collar will distract people.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

The thing is TWAB they could easily get a golden from a reputable breeder as a first time dog, as there are not many byb breeders of goldens in australia. Maremmas on the other hand are bred by farmers everywhere and sold in the classifieds. A reputable reg maremma breeder would never sell one as a first time dog to people with no dog experience at all, so a byb for maremmas would be their only port of call.


----------



## Thracian (Dec 24, 2008)

Can someone help me have the, "You're supposed to be my accessories" talk with my boys tonight? I'd love some advice from someone who has already done it. I think they are going to be upset.


----------



## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I was going to say I think it's silly to lie about your dogs breed but one time I pulled up to a stop light with Jack in the car and the guy next to me looked super pleased with him and shouted "What kind of dog is that?" and the light had just turned green so I yelled "The best dog!" and drove away. I guess I ain't lied yet.


Jack is awesome! If I pulled up side of you, I'd have known what kind of dog!


----------



## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm laughing at the bowel sizes...I assume they mean bowel movements. I've seen big dogs with small poops (being on a good diet will help with that) and my neighbors little Yorkie eats god knows what for food and her poops are bigger and smellier than either of my dogs!


----------



## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> Jack is awesome! If I pulled up side of you, I'd have known what kind of dog!


I am so excited when people do! Only has happened twice that I can think of. Every one else thinks he's a GSD/Husky mix or a GSD.



stationgirl said:


> The thing is TWAB they could easily get a golden from a reputable breeder as a first time dog, as there are not many byb breeders of goldens in australia. Maremmas on the other hand are bred by farmers everywhere and sold in the classifieds. A reputable reg maremma breeder would never sell one as a first time dog to people with no dog experience at all, so a byb for maremmas would be their only port of call.


That's a lot of assumptions. So.. Golden breeders, good ones I mean, will give their dogs to people with no dog experience but Maremma breeders surely aren't that dumb? Do you see why this looks not so great?


----------



## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> Small dogs may have small bowels but has ya'lls big dogs ever pooped on a wall or in a drawer?


Are you _complaining_ about that? That's a selling point! If they poop on a wall, it just means you don't have to bend down as far to pick up the poop. And if they poop in a drawer, you can just close it and forget about it! Small dogs make life so much easier.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Actually I've worked for both reg golden breeders and reg maremma breeders. Many people would call up about goldens who had hardly any dog experience at all, the breeders would send them info and vet their home and the people. If all was ok they would sell them a pup on the proviso that they sell back if it was too much dog for them or they couldn't keep it for any reason. The maremma breeders on the other hand would never sell to first time dog owners, full stop. Maremmas are one of the most dumped dogs in australia because people with no dog experience get acute white fluffy puppy and have no idea what it needs. Reg breeders will not sell to first time dog owners.


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Oh the shame...mine have large dog sized poops. I'm so embarrassed. Hopefully if she poops in public her Gucci Fall 2012 collection collar will distract people.


Oh no! That won't do at all! The Gucci collar helps, but if they don't have small bowels, they're just no good. You should really get rid of them and get some nice small dogs with proper small bowels, since that's the only reason to get a small breed dog! If Kuma didn't have small bowels, he'd be out of here in a heartbeat, since that's the only reason I got him, that and to accessorize my outfits.


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

*Embraces completely off topic discussion * *admits defeat*


----------



## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I am so excited when people do! Only has happened twice that I can think of. Every one else thinks he's a GSD/Husky mix or a GSD.


Even if I didn't have friends who have them, I take pride in being one of those people who tend to recognize breeds. If you die, he's mine. Thats it, the older one has spoken <g>


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

I would know what breed he was too, Steph, but that's what happens when you spend years being dog obsessed and dog deprived, lol. I've spent so much time poring over dog books and magazines, there aren't many breeds I don't recognize now! 

I'd be the crazy girl hollering "Elkie! That's an Elkie!" Out my car window, LOL


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

You know, I'm actually amazed that Australia harbors so many Maremmas. I've been under the impression that they were pretty rare. I mean, the number of Maremma pups born in Italy in 2010 was a little below 700 dogs. (according to Dutch Maremma breeder "Parcodaini") 
How widespread is the Maremma breeding in Australia, Stationgirl?


----------



## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Preety popular dogs out in country areas. We are the sheep capital of the world and have a lot of feral dogs and foxes, every farm out here where I live has at least 4 maremmas. Sadly hardly any of the breeders are registered so they can't really be documented as they don't get microchipped either.

they are also sold pretty regularly in pet shops because the pus are cute and fluffy. There are a few maremma rescues in my state and most are full. recently idiots are crossing thme with border collies for some STUPID reason.... that's one confused dog.


----------



## WheatenDaneMom (Nov 4, 2011)

I meant bowel sizes LOL.... My great dane's poops are the equivalent of 1.5lbs of ground hamburger... it's... a lot to pick up LOL


----------



## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I am so excited when people do! Only has happened twice that I can think of. Every one else thinks he's a GSD/Husky mix or a GSD.


That reminds me of the time I met a person with a Keeshond, and not only did I know the dog's breed, but I pronounced it correctly, too! The owner was so excited and she let me love all over her big fluffy dog, and I was SO proud of myself, LOL! :biggrin1:


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> That reminds me of the time I met a person with a Keeshond, and not only did I know the dog's breed, but I pronounced it correctly, too! The owner was so excited and she let me love all over her big fluffy dog, and I was SO proud of myself, LOL!


I have a bad habit of pronouncing it the wrong way, only because most people look at me like I'm insane when i pronounce it correctly, lol.


----------



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

stationgirl said:


> Preety popular dogs out in country areas. We are the sheep capital of the world and have a lot of feral dogs and foxes, every farm out here where I live has at least 4 maremmas. Sadly hardly any of the breeders are registered so they can't really be documented as they don't get microchipped either.
> 
> they are also sold pretty regularly in pet shops because the pus are cute and fluffy. There are a few maremma rescues in my state and most are full. recently idiots are crossing thme with border collies for some STUPID reason.... that's one confused dog.


That's weird... what are they trying to do, getting a dog that can herd and guard at the same time?


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Yeh, this thread has pretty much lost sight of itself.


----------

