# Puppy wont poo or pee outside



## bailey80 (May 3, 2011)

Hey people. Sorry to just jump in with a first time post like this but i really need some advice!

My name is Jed and we have a Jack Russell called Bailey aged 4 months and we live in a first floor flat. We bought Bailey from a working farm in the U.K aged 12 weeks. He was in good health but very skinny and you could tell he was wasn't being fed regularly or had any type of potty training. 

In the beginning we started paper training him but without much success, he just seemed to go anywhere else but the paper even after a few weeks of trying. We put the paper in the bathroom where there is lino down so any accidents could be easily mopped up. Now he does go there 90% of the time so that is ok.

We take him out first thing in the morning for 40-60 mins roughly and 95% of the time he doesn't pee or poo but the second he gets back in the flat he pees and poos! We take him out all the time 3-6 times a day and nearly every time he does this.

Our puppy is 3 months old now but due to various circumstances we have only just 2 weeks ago started taking him outside now he's fully vaccinated, before that we were paper training him. On the farm where he was for 12 weeks he was just left to roam and do as he wished.

A week ago we bought a crate for him, he has got used to it now and is quite happy, he manages to hold himself overnight and in the day time.

This morning we took him out first thing, he had been in his crate all night and hadn't done anything. We had him out for an hour and he still didnt do his business, no pee or poo. When we got him inside we put him in his crate and he did a poo INSIDE his crate!! 

Later on in the day he did the same thing, but as he was circling in the bathroom i said 'No' Pee Pee outside, took him out and said 'good boy, pee, pee here' I waited in the same spot for 10 mins, nothing, so i took him back inside. This happened again so i took him back outside whilst he was circling but still nothing. This process happened at least 6 times, i was running up and down the stairs for about half an hour but he STILL wouldn't do it outside!

This happens every single day. We can handle the fact that he will do the odd poo inside but when he's given the opportunity (in the morning for example) after holding it all night to have one outside then comes back and does it in his crate, that is hard to understand.

Can anyone here help with this?


Thankyou


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## Belda (Apr 27, 2011)

Hello Jed,

There are two sides to this. Firstly, you need to see this from Bailey's aspect - You have actually _house-trained_ him to go in the house! So from his point of view while he is outside he thinks to wait until he is indoors. The reverse of when we house-train a dog by taking them regularly outside, and then they recognise that the 'bathroom' is outside and _wait_ while indoors until they are outside! So Bailey is probably thinking he is doing the right thing!

However, now you obviously need to undo what you have successfully trained Bailey to learn. If you did not live in a first floor flat, I would definitely suggest taking him outside very regularly (just for a few minutes at a time). If you do this, it will certainly help keep you nice and fit as well 

What sort of private space of area do you have right outside your front door? For instance would you be able to place a couple of 'Puppy Pads' outside? (Now I am not usually in favour of these pads, but in this instance they may be useful). Blot a little of his urine on a couple of pads. Then it may be easier for you to take him outside your front door on his leash, so that he may be encouraged by the smell of urine and consequently wee or even a token 'mark' on one of the pads. As he does this, give nice praise (not over-the-top) or it will interupt the action. Just saying happily; "Good boy, do business" - or whatever link phrase you prefer.

The second side to this with young dogs is that they sometimes 'hold and wait' until they are back to where they are used to doing their toilet. So for instance, a dog would wait until he/she returns home and then go in the garden (which at present he/she recognises as their _bathroom_). This soon passes, and it is great when all of a sudden the Owner sees their dog comfortable to do his wee/poo while outdoors elsewhere.

Apologies for a long response, but hope you will find this helpful. Please keep us updated.


Belda


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## bailey80 (May 3, 2011)

Hi Belda,

Many thanks for your advice. Yeah it is difficult and like you say we have trained him to go in the house from the offset and now it's just a case on un-learning him!

Yesterday he had 2 poo's outside which was great and we praised him a lot and gave him a treat straight after but the other time i caught him circling inside again and took him out and repeated about 5 times but he still wouldn't go outside, he ended up doing it inside. Still no pees outside though.

Today we tried feeding him first and then taking him out but he just did a poo and pee in the kitchen so maybe it is best we took him out first thing!

We feed him 3 time a day so now know roughly when he will need to go but it's harder predicting the pee's.

We have a crate for him but we do leave him to go in and out the crate as he pleases (except at night time) is this correct? We are taking him out every hour or so but most of the time when we take him back in and put him in his crate he will pee in there.

Also when we catch him doing something indoors what is the best response to give him, should we say NO! then take him outside and give him a treat (as we do at the moment) or is thing wrong?

Your advice is much appreciated!

Jed


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## Belda (Apr 27, 2011)

Hello Jed,

As a puppy gets older, the bladder can hold longer, so of course it is a little harder trying to _capture_ the moment he/she will need to toilet, unlike when they are very young and tend to be very frequent.

With regard to your last paragraph, there is absolutely no point after the puppy as toileted indoors, to take him outside and then give him a treat. Hopefully, you are able to keep an eye on him, and the moment you see _any sign_ of his need to toilet, scoop him up and take him outside. If you catch him already _doing_ his toilet, then still quickly scoop up and take outside. Too late to do this afterwards! (I would like to add here, and I am sure this is not yourself, but should be reminded anyway, that never, never rub a puppy/dog nose into wee or poo. Neither be angry with a puppy/dog, because this is a natural function and they do not realise as yet, what and where is required of them. So no shouting either at the puppy/dog. This is cruel and will make the dog fearful of the Owner and lose trust).

Dogs often like to move around a short while before their bodily function. So perhaps you could put his leash on indoors, walk around your flat for a short while and then take him outside. He may then feel ready to toilet.

Another aspect, is that puppies and young dogs can be so captivated with all the outside interest, that they temporarily forget about their personal need to go toilet. Then the Owner brings them indoors, and the puppy now re-focusses on himself, and suddenly realises the need to toilet and does so indoors. To deal with that aspect, when you have a good idea that he surely _needs_ to relieve himself, walk him around your flat first on his leash, then take him outside. If nothing happens, and he is simply enthralled by all outside noises and sights. Bring him back indoors, walk briefly around, so that the excitement of outdoors re-settles, and his mind relaxes, then go outside again. This time, when the puppy as needed to go but held on because of the fun of the great outdoors, having relaxed and become aware of his need to go, he cannot hold longer, and usually toilets. 

This hopefully explains a few insights and ideas for you to put into action. The main point is to remain calm and be very patient and very consistent with the training. Don't get uptight or frustrated, accidents will happen, but resolve to keep to a good pattern of action. It WILL pay off, and you WILL have a toilet trained dog. 


Belda


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## bailey80 (May 3, 2011)

Hi Belda,

I just took him out after he woke up in his crate. I stayed out and in the same spot for 15 mins but nothing so i took him inside still on his leash. As soon as he got in the door he went to have a pee so i picked him up really quick and ran down the steps outside and gave him a treat. I stayed out for 10 mins for him to finish what he started but still nothing so i took him back up. The same thing happened again so i repeated this but he did not finish his pee. Am i doing the right thing? When i do catch him in the act should i say anything to him or say nothing?

He is managing to hold it whilst in his crate but he just wont go outside. I agree about not getting angry with him, it's not his fault after all, it's ours!

Jed


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## Belda (Apr 27, 2011)

Hello Jed,

What you are describing is closely linked to my last Message (4th paragraph) - and you are probably finding that he toilets almost immediately when he returns indoors .... so, you have to be a step ahead of him, as you come back indoors, just _moments_ later (you now know how quickly he tends to relieve himself after returning) - don't even wait, just straight outdoors again. There is a good likliehood that once his mind is thinking of his need to toilet he will do so! You are using a little clever psychology to your advantage. Again, let me remind you, try to nip outside again before he even starts, you want him _thinking_; "I want to toilet". If he already starts, he may simply abort the mission!

If you catch him in the act, you can say a simple short "No" (BUT NOT harshly, almost like a "Nope")!

Now you will have a good idea when you think he may need to toilet. Particularly, when he has not been for a while. So you can be better prepared. From what you have said, I would strongly be vigilant for those _signs_, plus a regular outdoors, staying only for five minutes, then bring him back indoors, BUT almost _immediately _(time it just right to your advantage) - and back downstairs again for five minutes, in the hope of catching his relaxed awareness of his personal need to relieve himself.

Once you achieve the above timing of his coming back, and ready to toilet, and getting him outdoors again, and he DOES THE DEED - YAY! - You are then on a Winner. You will obviously praise him nicely as he toilets. And you will find that he will then begin to toilet when you take him outdoors the first time. 

Be patient, just focus on keeping to this fixed regime - and wait for the results .... 


Belda


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## Puddin's Training Tips (Apr 9, 2011)

Thanks for saving the dog. If he has all his shots, I suggest long walks insttead of standing around outside.
You can also drive him to new and novel places - dogs love to potty where other dogs have gone where rabbits and deer have gone etc. .So go to nature trails, parks etc..

I have found that some rescue dogs don't like being watched and some have an issue with pottying on leash. Make sure the leash is very secure (use a properly fitted martingale collar) and no traffic is around and try turning your head when he looks like he wants to go. 

You can also try a long training leash to give him some extra space.

Be aware of reverse house training - could have been done by you or the previous parents. If the dog is ever scolded for pottying in front of you, he might learn to not potty in front of you.

See more details in this document. It includes video links and book links. It's still in draft mode but has a bunch of info. https://docs.google.com/a/stubbypud...=1gyRgonLk74cPOY0a7rZfcNeT1etc_U1LuK2YlOKsKHA

good luck!


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## bailey80 (May 3, 2011)

Hi, i thought i'd give you an update as to his progress. At the moment he is doing better than he was previously. He does more pees and poos outside than he did but he still sometimes waits until he is back inside to do one. 

Belda i did what you suggested, now if he hasn't done his business outside as soon as we get back in i take him straight out again, it seems to work for his poos but more difficult for his pees! yesterday when we got back in after being out he did a pee on the steps as we we going up them!

we have a crate for him and use this, we never keep him in this for long periods of time and take him out every hour or so but he will still pee in this sometimes. Because in the beginning we paper trained him to go in the bathroom he will still go in there for pees or poos when he is out of his crate, most of the time he does manage to hold it when in his crate. 

Am i doing the right thing by letting him have free run of the house or should he be kept in his crate until he is house trained? It seems a bit cruel!

Jed


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## Puddin's Training Tips (Apr 9, 2011)

bailey80 said:


> At the moment he is doing better than he was previously...Am i doing the right thing by letting him have free run of the house or should he be kept in his crate until he is house trained? It seems a bit cruel!


Congrats on your progress. If he is not fully potty trained, you have to watch him every single second that he is out of the crate. You are right, excessive crating can be cruel. He can be out of the crate but he can't run around unattended. You can tether him to you when you are up and about.
You can also setup a nice play room for him. Even with some sod off to one side. More details on the play room are in this document http://blog.mysanantonio.com/latrenda/potty-training-101/
See the section titled "Better Than A Crate" about half way down.

The information is taken from Ian Dunbar's book: "Before and After Getting Your New Puppy." it has great info on getting off on the right track with your puppy - including potty training and socialization. It can be accessed for free through Dunbar's website at http://www.dogstardaily.com/
Or puchased from Amazon: http://amzn.to/euupAL

There are lots of other reasons that you can't let such a young puppy run around by himself in the house - mainly for safety. More details are in the book.

Congrats again!


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## bailey80 (May 3, 2011)

Hi, just an update for you guys. Basically he has improved by doing his business outside but he STILL does it inside, he doesn't seem to get that outside is for peeing and inside isn't. today we were sat in the lounge and he proceeded to have a poo right there in front of us! He never whimpered or even let us know! 

we tell him off and take him outside as soon as he's done it but we have been doing this for 2 months now and he still hasn't got it. 

I do take him out a lot and stay out for a good hour and a half each time and praise him when he does a pee or poo but he still thinks its ok to do them inside. He just doesn't seem to be getting it.

We have a crate for him and i think the only way we are going to do it is if we keep him in his crate all the time but when we do put him in his crate he starts whimpering and even though we give him his toys to play with he just seems miserable so we let him out. we do take him out every 1-2 hours so he does get a lot of exercise, am i doing the right thing?


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## Kierstien (May 30, 2013)

I see several issues here. I would like to point them out and maybe you will find success.

First off, how big is the crate, if the crate is large enough to accommodate the dog to pee and poo in one side and sleep on the other, that is the reason your dog is not being successful in holding it, or going outside in the morning. The crate should be large enough to allow the dog to lie down comfortably, and turn around. NO MORE ROOM THAN THAT! The idea behind crate training is, your dog will not pee or poo in it's sleeping quarters, so use this to your advantage and make sure the crate is the right size for your dog.

Secondly, I read here that you catch the dog peeing in the house, take it outside, treat it and wait for it to finish. You just told the dog that is what you want it to do, pee in the house, by giving it a treat. The treat should be withheld until the dog actually pees outside.

Thirdly, I read here that you are taking the dog out of the crate while it is whining and complaining. Which is teaching the dog that it runs the house, not you guys and it knows it will get it's way. You guys are rewarding the behaviors you dont want instead of correcting them. This is what it sounds like to me.

I suggest going to youtube and viewing several videos about crate training your dog, and hopefully you will have success!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

This post is a year old, and the OP hasn't posted since.


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