# Turkish Kangal, Boerboel, and Presa Canario



## Akitadog24 (Jan 21, 2013)

What are your opinion on the three dogs that I listed in the title? Are they good dogs to own? I own an Akita at the moment and a hound mix, and have owned other dogs before this one.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

The Boerboel is a handful of dog to own, my father's best friend owned two of them. One had to be put to sleep because of a brain tumor that caused severe behavioral issues (owner couldn't enter his own home at one point... and you can't really get around an angry Boerboel). The other was a sweetheart that lived to be 7 years, died of cancer at his 7th birthday. Sadly, Boerboels generally don't get very old. None of the breeder's dogs this Boerboel came from lived past their 7th birthday. The Boerboel is a guard dog, not to be underestimated, and loves its family. A great loyal dog for its family. Just not for everyone else. 

A friend of mine currently ownes a Kangal and has owned 7 more in the past. Aside from family pets, they were also guard dogs and ran loose on the fenced in terrain at night (they had a copper trade and people like to steal copper... no one stole anything while the dogs were on the job). She currently owns her 8th Kangal that is purely a family pet, and lives together with a basset cross and a Scottish terrier. She also has a young daughter and she and the dog get along great. Kangals, like Boerboels, have a strong guardian instinct that should not be underestimated. 

For the right owners, these dogs can be great. You definitely need to have the confidence to know you won't be messing the dog up. If you're a little uncertain, then don't start with these breeds. But that doesn't sound like it'd be a problem for you, considering your current choice of breeds. (and then I'm talking especially about the Akita )

Can't help you with the Presa though.


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## Akitadog24 (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks a lot, bummed to here about the average age of a boerboel. Do you know the life expectancy of a Kangal?


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I've heard (with zero experience) that Boerboels are generally healthy, even for a giant dog. I thought their life expectancies averaged about 10 years? I've only met one in my life, a 2-3 yr old I believe. He was the sweetest thing and got along with all the people and dogs in the park, back when I used to frequent dog parks. Though admittedly, he didn't really CARE about other dogs or people, just tolerated being near them and if he had enough he'd just calmly move away. He was always moving and looking in the distance. Not anxious or wary at all, but with a lot of purpose. He minded his owner very well but was not clinging to her side. 
I don't think I'll ever own a giant breed but the Boerboel is hands down my favorite among them!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Avie said:


> Sadly, Boerboels generally don't get very old. None of the breeder's dogs this Boerboel came from lived past their 7th birthday.


I have a feeling that has more to do with the breeder's line, than the breed itself. As as far as mastiff type dogs go this breed is fairly healthy. I would seriously question their ethics and breeding practices if none of their dogs live past 7, that just seems fishy to me.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Met a couple Boerboel. One was ok big mastiff looking dog. The other one sweet cute little thing. 8 months old male who was so lame with hip dysplasia that walking for this dog was near impossible. The dog would do it only so it could sit by you and give you kisses. Sadly the dog did not make it past his 10 months on life. The owners could not afford surgery and opted for euthanasia. Sad because the dog had a wonderful temperment.

Presa Canario- see a lot at work again not that impressed by the breed. People that own them like them. Seem to be loyal to the family and make good guard dogs. Not a real barky breed according to the owners. Can be kind of stubborn.

The turkish kangal-HAVE ONE! AKC refers them as an Anatolian shepherd I went with this breed because I was looking for an LGD and the kangal had one of the longest living giant dog breeds. They say average life span up to 13 years. Pretty mellow dog. I now have a full blooded kangal and a half blooded one. Both are great dogs. Downfall probably will not see one in an obedience ring. They will listen but slow. When I take my girl (the full blooded one) people constantly think she is a mastiff, but what I like is she does not drool. Which is a plus in my books. Would I get another one? You bet. Why? Because I like what they do. They protect my livestock from predators including stray dogs.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> I have a feeling that has more to do with the breeder's line, than the breed itself. As as far as mastiff type dogs go this breed is fairly healthy. I would seriously question their ethics and breeding practices if none of their dogs live past 7, that just seems fishy to me.


That's what I thought at first. But then I visited other breeder's websites and looked at their dogs' ages and at their 'in memoriam' dogs to see at what age they died. Conclusion; age of death was generally between 6-9 years old. 

The reason my father's friend got a golden retriever after his last Boerboel passed away was mainly because the longer life expectancy. Their last Boerboel was healthy (save for epilepsy. Their other Boerboel also had epilepsy) until shortly before his death. He started peeing blood and that's when they found out he had cancer. A week later he was gone.

Oh, and the Kangal's life expectancy is pretty long according to my info. My friend's Kangal (she doesn't call them Anatolians and says they are different breeds, that the Anatolian was developed in America from using various dogs from the Anatolia region, also Kangal type dogs. But the Turkish Kangal is a breed from Turkey, never particolor, always a black mask and fawn-ish coat. I've got an encyclopedia that confirms this story, so it's what I go with as well) Anyway, I've read that a healthy Kangal can (easily) reach 15. Can't say how true that is, though.


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## citxmech (Feb 27, 2013)

I currently own a 1-1/2 year-old female Kangal/Boerboel cross - and consider her an exceptional dog for general companionship as well as a personal/home guardian. She's currently 29" at the shoulder and weighs 120lbs. The Boerboel in her makes keeps her stick to your side like glue and she is clearly happiest when she is with her pack. 

She is also scary smart with better discretion than most humans I know. I can leave her home alone and the UPS packages get delivered and the meter gets read with no problems - however when somebody sketchy walks by the house, or approaches our car, she puts on a very intimidating display. The first time I heard her growl was when a new neighbor moved in - at 4 months she already knew who belonged on our block and who didn't. Also, she is fantastic on-lead in public, especially with children and is even dog-park friendly - if a bit dominant. =]

Her biggest downside is that she is a whole lot of dog, requires extensive exercise to keep her from going stir crazy, and she absolutely requires assertive but calm leadership and lots of patience. She is very pushy and will not back-down to aggression or anger - instead escalating, so discipline is best gentle, fair, and consistent - this encourages the dog to respect you, and encourages maximum defensive drive. If you get a Boerboel or Kangal, be prepared to become an expert at the art of "redirection." Put another way, she has strong opinions, which I feel should be respected by owners of these breeds (Basically - don't get a Kangal if you want rapt obedience - they act more like partners in your life, and if you're not ready for that kind of relationship - I'd advise you get less independent breed). 

The other thing to keep in mind is that these animals' power is out of proportion to their size. Yes, they are very big dogs - but they are way stronger and more athletic than other, more common, giant breeds.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

I think just like with any dog breed, they can be great for the right people and the right situations.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

luv mi pets said:


> The turkish kangal-HAVE ONE! AKC refers them as an Anatolian shepherd I went with this breed because I was looking for an LGD and the kangal had one of the longest living giant dog breeds. They say average life span up to 13 years. Pretty mellow dog. I now have a full blooded kangal and a half blooded one. Both are great dogs. Downfall probably will not see one in an obedience ring. They will listen but slow. When I take my girl (the full blooded one) people constantly think she is a mastiff, but what I like is she does not drool. Which is a plus in my books. Would I get another one? You bet. Why? Because I like what they do. They protect my livestock from predators including stray dogs.


No you have an Anatolian Sheperd NOT a Kangal. Why call your dog such? Its like saying you have an APBT when you have a SBT. They are two different breeds and registered properly (separately) by the UKC. I'm sure most Kangal fanciers are happy not having AKC.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Spicy1_VV said:


> No you have an Anatolian Sheperd NOT a Kangal. Why call your dog such? Its like saying you have an APBT when you have a SBT. They are two different breeds and registered properly (separately) by the UKC. I'm sure most Kangal fanciers are happy not having AKC.


Lots of people don't see the difference (between Anatolian and Kangal) which I think is a shame.


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## HayleyMarie (Dec 22, 2008)

I will be getting a Boerboel pup this year, and from my research they are one of the longer living Mastiff's, but they still have their health issues. You need to find a breeder that has long living dogs in their breeding program and that does health testing. And uses dogs that have passed all the health testing. They are a stubborn breed, but they want to please. They also are a guardian breed so you have to take that into consideration. A well bred Boerboel should and will protect you. Also they are not a love everyone kind of dog, they are aloof when it comes to strangers, but should be ok with being touched my strangers. Same sex aggression can be an issue with in the breed so if you already have a dog getting the opposite sex is the best. Do not expect a Boerboel to be a dog park dog, actually I would never recommend taking a Boerboel to the dog park.

I went with the Boerboel because I was looking for a mastiff breed with prey drive and play drive. Big, but able to be athletic and able to keep up with my outdoors lifestyle.

If you are seriously considering this breed, get into contact with some reputable breeders, ask questions, meet some dogs


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## kramogul (Feb 11, 2013)

I've no experience with BoerBoel's, but do have experience with the Kangal. Kangal's are very nice animals. Even better would be the Turkish Boz Shepherd. Not to be mistaken for the Kangal or Anatolian shepherd. The big difference from the Boz to Kangal is size, Boz get's much bigger. The other very important difference is temperment. You are more likely going to get the calm demeanor from a %100 Boz than you would a percentage animal. But if you find the right Kangal, you won't be disappointed. All the land race breeds from Turkey are some of the most formidable k9's in the world. My Boz is 6 months old, she weighs 70 lbs and is already 27" at the shoulders, but incredibly submissive. Boz is King of Canine.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Came across many of the mentioned breed when researching XL breeds, LGDs and Great Pyrs...
Dunno much about them except Kangal...

I think you will need to be at least an experienced dog owners to handle these breeds...
They are gentle but still needs a firm hand.
XL mouth = XL bite... so when they become uncontrollable due to lack of discipline... expect "XL size" destruction (and quick work at it too)... eg. chewing period during puppyhood or worse teenage years etc.

I think breed specific forums will give you better imputs.























Oy!


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Akitadog24 said:


> What are your opinion on the three dogs that I listed in the title? Are they good dogs to own? ...


Laughed out loud when I read, "Are they good dogs to own?" ...
Which breed is not "good" for the right owner?

These are all "serious" dogs, but I assume you knew that already,
and it is this "seriousness" which again, I assume, attracts you to these breeds.
Each is quite different with overlapping, but different demands.

The biggest challenge will be to find a good breeder;
these are few and far between.
For example, even at shows, I have yet to see a single decent Boerboel.
Getting a good Boerboel in North America can be a real challenge.

My suggestion would be to frequent some Rare Breed dog shows,
not that you're looking to show your dog(s), 
but that you're more likely to get first-hand info there.
Also, Rare Breed shows tend to be
less formal, less stuffy, and a bit more "fun" and than AKC (IMO).

If you do find a good breeder of any of these breeds, 
that may help make your decision for you.

Best of luck.


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## kramogul (Feb 11, 2013)

hueyeats said:


> Came across many of the mentioned breed when researching XL breeds, LGDs and Great Pyrs...
> Dunno much about them except Kangal...
> 
> I think you will need to be at least an experienced dog owners to handle these breeds...
> ...


Any breed regardless of size requires proper socialization. While the Guregh shep is an LGD, your not tangling with a Fila brasillero, which is a far more naturally dangerous breed. I wouldn't recommend Boz for folks that are not going to use the animal for its intended purpose though. Boz naturally have manners unlike anything I've ever seen. My Nesta hasn't chewed up a single thing as a pup. The other night she located on of our chicks that flew the coop and brought it into the house, through the dog door. Unharmed.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

All of the breeds you mention require a serious and dedicated owner. Before you even think about bringing any of those breeds in your home, you need to RESEARCH! RESEARCH! RESEARCH! I love the Presa Canario and hope to own one, someday, but i know i am not ready for one yet. Talk to as many breeders and owners as you can, if you have a facebook, you can talk to a lot of people in other countries, who have been around these dogs for a long time. They can offer you some valuable information, and you can than assess whether or not you should bring one of these dogs into your home.. These breeds are not for inexperienced dog owners, and not for the average dog owner. Do you have any experience with less extreme Guardian breeds? I personally am not owning a Presa, until i have more experience with other "guardian" breeds. I love the Rottie, and have owned German bitch before, so i plan on owning more rotties before i purchase a Presa... Have you looked up anything about these breeds? They are all very different.. As others have mentioned, it's going to be hard to find a good breeder hear in the states. Do you plan on doing any sports with this dog? and if not are you going to give it some kind of job to do? Why are you interested in these breeds?


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Spicy1_VV said:


> No you have an Anatolian Sheperd NOT a Kangal. Why call your dog such? Its like saying you have an APBT when you have a SBT. They are two different breeds and registered properly (separately) by the UKC. I'm sure most Kangal fanciers are happy not having AKC


The UK Kennel Club has announced it is to recognise the Kangal Dog as a breed with effect from July 2013. It also stated that dogs currently registered as Anatolian Shepherd Dogs may be eligible (where appropriate) to be recorded as Turkish Kangal Dogs instead.[11][12] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_Shepherd

As of 1 January 2012, the Australian National Kennel Council no longer recognises the ANKC Kangal as being a separate breed from the ANKC Anatolian Shepherd.[13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_Shepherd


For many it is how the club registers the dog! The Kangal Dog Association (Victoria) Inc. is in the process of forming a breed club, to advise and assist Australian owners and future owners of this unique breed. Hopefully, the future of Turkish dogs in Australia will now be safeguarded and the crossbreeding that allowed any dog that walked out of Turkey, be it a shepherd’s dog or not, to be bred together under the title “Anatolian Shepherd Dog”, will become a thing of the past. http://kangalclub.com/reading-room/about-owning/kangals-in-australia.php

Yes upon further reading the dog's correct name depends on what region the dog is from.

Further reading http://www.takasvolkodav.com/page2.asp

1. The Kennel Club will begin to process Turkish Kangal Dog registrations upon receipt, but these will not become active until 1 July 2013 at the earliest. Up until this date, dogs may be shown as Anatolian Shepherd Dogs pending confirmation of the change in breed registration from 1 July 2013. 
http://kangal.ca/around-the-world/recognition-of-the-turkish-kangal-dog/


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## TRDmom (Mar 3, 2013)

Avie said:


> Oh, and the Kangal's life expectancy is pretty long according to my info. My friend's Kangal (she doesn't call them Anatolians and says they are different breeds, that the Anatolian was developed in America from using various dogs from the Anatolia region, also Kangal type dogs. But the Turkish Kangal is a breed from Turkey, never particolor, always a black mask and fawn-ish coat. I've got an encyclopedia that confirms this story, so it's what I go with as well) Anyway, I've read that a healthy Kangal can (easily) reach 15. Can't say how true that is, though.


Correct! Anatolians are basically Kangal mixed with street dogs (not to offend Anatolian lovers, but its not a Turkish breed).

Kangals are great dogs, but are best when they have a job to do. If you're wanting to keep them as a pet, its best they are spayed/neutered and get enough walking. Intact dogs without enough exercise will produce a highly obnoxious dog! These dogs have been accompanying herds of goats and sheep across vast areas for thousands of years--still do!--so they are not in a hurry and have much stamina. Working Kangals are protective of their flock, affectionate with the shepard/owners, and tolerant of other people (provided the shepard/owner is present. They are usually more friendly with others when away from their flocks). Taken out of a working environment, owners should be careful not to have the family become like a flock because it draws out protective behaviors. For example, in the dog's mind children (of their family) might need protected from harm which makes visiting children a threat. Not good in America today!

Kangal's are surprisingly sensitive dogs considering their size and original purpose. They should NEVER be treated harshly! Also, vets can easily OD these dogs with anesthesia (again, because the size of the dog is misleading). I knew a shop guard dog that would be nice if you called him "Seker" (sugar). Well-adjusted dogs are calm and esp. gentle with children. Not particularly playful or star pupils in obedience, but they are generally biddable with fair/firm owners. Expect much shedding during Fall/Spring! I wouldn't recommend this dog to the average owner/family. There are not many true Kangals in USA/outside of Turkey. Also import from Turkey is not easy for non-Turks.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Avie said:


> ........
> 
> *For the right owners, these dogs can be great.* You definitely need to have the confidence to know you won't be messing the dog up. If you're a little uncertain, then don't start with these breeds. But that doesn't sound like it'd be a problem for you, considering your current choice of breeds. (and then I'm talking especially about the Akita )
> 
> Can't help you with the Presa though.


This!!!
You already have an Akita... you should be more than alright.

Romaji!
(Roman language)


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

@ TRDmom

That's not really true. Anatolians are definitely not basically Kangal mixed with street dogs.
Onur Kanli, the chairman of the Turkish Shepherds’ Dogs Protection Society in Turkey and Turkish Kennel Club representative of the Turkish dogs, says Anatolians are a mixture of these Turkish breeds: Kangal, Akbash, Kars dog, Yoruk and Turkish Mastiff and even _some _ mongrels.
You can read about that and the short version of how Anatolian first came to be here: http://kangal.ca/breed-information/a-letter-by-onur-kanli-kangal-or-anatolian/

The link luv mi pets posted is quite informative as well, and should be read by anyone who is interested in Turkish livestock guardian breeds, so I'll re-post it: http://www.takasvolkodav.com/page2.asp


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Huh when I google "Turkish Kangal" I get a bunch of pics of anatolians lol.

If you live in the city I would have to say no on the Anatolian, they need space & property to "guard" IMHO & busy city/suburban life I don't think is well suited for them. They do have long lifespans for large breeds ... Ours lived to 13 which is old for a giant breed.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

dogdragoness you had an Anatolian? It is good to see yours lived to be 13. From all my readings this is what I have concluded in my research on the kangal vs anatolian. 
My dogs.
Mowgli- neutered male dilute pinto with white blaze on face. Considered to be an Anatolian but not a Kangal He was sold as an Anatolian/Gr Pyr mix *But, for all I know he could be a Cihuahua/Great Dane mix. He was bought at Petland. No, I did not buy him only was given to me because he did not work out for the orginal owner.

Apache-Spayed female much larger,more mastiff type than Mowgli. Fawn with a Black Mask Short dense fur. Her ancestors all were of this type. No pinto, brindles all were tan mastiff looking with black masks. She could in certain breed clubs be registered as a Kangal.

This how I percieved it to be with all the reading I have done on this breed. I find them to be a very mellow breed, but mine have plenty of land to roam on. Living in a city, I do not know how it would be. Mine sleep all day and then when the sun goes down are constantly on patrol. Barking periodically throughout the night. Might get complaints from neighbors if living in the city.
This is typical of the breed.*


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