# Need help in choosing a good guard/company dog



## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi, here's the deal, in my family we are planning to buy a dog to protect the family and to keep company.
So I thought about buying a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, I heard they don't do much noise, and even if a bit hard to train they are very good company pets, however I'm not sure if they are as good guard dogs as are their ancestors the German Shepherds, the dog is mainly for my mother, we live in rural Portugal, life is quiet but she is afraid that some burglar tries to rob our house or something like that, and surely our 3 cats won't do much about defending the place.
So what do you think? It would be our first dog, so I'm not sure because I already know wolfdogs are bit difficult, we could walk him in the weekend, there's a lot of green areas around, but in the week the dog would be in our house alone, its kind of a big house, but still such dog needs big open spaces. I don't need an aggressive dog of course, I just need him to be aggressive if someone hurts me or my mother, or any future member of our family (example if I get a girlfriend or a wife or a kid).

What do you think? Would a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog be ok, or there are better, cheaper, barkless races who are easier to train, around there?

Thank you so much!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I don't think any breed known to be particularly protective or aggressive to strangers is a good idea for a first dog. There is a lot of risk in having a guard dog. It means a lot of training and specific training, not just the normal pet dog stuff like sit/stay/come. The dog has to learn when to act and when not to act-- you don't want a dog that will bite a medical worker that shows up in an emergency or a dog that confuses the playful shouts of children with screaming. 

Walking a dog only on the weekends isn't likely to be enough exercise for nearly any healthy adult dog, being indoors isn't the issue, dogs don't need tons of space but what they need is regular exercise

Usually, a large dog who will bark if a stranger comes around the house is plenty of "guard" dog for the average dog owner. Basically a watch-dog. Then you have far less risk of your dog biting an innocent stranger and you have a dog that you can take more places in public and enjoy the company of for walks and hikes.

You'll also want to consider the cats' safety. Dogs with strong prey drive can be quite difficult to train and manage around cats as they often see the cats as dinner... just like they see rabbits or squirrels.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

One of the most ferocious-sounding dogs I've ever heard, with a big, booming bark, was a Basset that lived across the street. 

Her name was Guinevere and she wouldn't hurt anyone, but she was certainly a deterrent to anyone with mischief in mind. 

You likely want an alarm dog, not a guard dog. Lots of big. formidable dogs won't bark. The figure they can take care of things themselves rather than sound the alarm. But a determined burglar can kill or disable any dog. 

Far better to have a dog that will discourage them from ever entering the house or property.


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## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

Shell said:


> I don't think any breed known to be particularly protective or aggressive to strangers is a good idea for a first dog. There is a lot of risk in having a guard dog. It means a lot of training and specific training, not just the normal pet dog stuff like sit/stay/come. The dog has to learn when to act and when not to act-- you don't want a dog that will bite a medical worker that shows up in an emergency or a dog that confuses the playful shouts of children with screaming.
> 
> Walking a dog only on the weekends isn't likely to be enough exercise for nearly any healthy adult dog, being indoors isn't the issue, dogs don't need tons of space but what they need is regular exercise
> 
> ...


About exercise, there is absolutely no problem, we have a very big house, about the cats wouldn't a puppy with time recognize that those 3 cats are part of the family? I'm not sure about the prices, but there's a dog school nearby we could send the puppy there, and train it with the help of a specialist.



RonE said:


> One of the most ferocious-sounding dogs I've ever heard, with a big, booming bark, was a Basset that lived across the street.
> 
> Her name was Guinevere and she wouldn't hurt anyone, but she was certainly a deterrent to anyone with mischief in mind.
> 
> ...


Basset hounds sounds nice, but here is the problem (it applies for you both), as you might know Portugal is kind of liberal with drugs, if you're caught with heroine or meth, there will be no charges, you only have to be in rehab. More than a normal burglar my mom is afraid of a drug-driven burglar, because since I'm on the outskirts of rural city, of course at the end of a road parallel to my neighborhood, dealers and junkies use to hang around (there's nothing but woods and a highway there), and sometimes they like to make "tastes" nearby since my whole area has poor light, my mom lives afraid that something might happen, specially because sometimes I'm not at home, I may work in another places and such. And so she asked to search for a dog to keep company and who is not afraid of biting in case of trouble, that is why I didn't say alarm dog. About alarm dogs, she doesn't want to upset the neighbors or having sleepless nights with a dog constantly barking (I sleep heavy, but she does not). And that's the main problem.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

silveringking said:


> About exercise, there is absolutely no problem, we have a very big house, about the cats wouldn't a puppy with time recognize that those 3 cats are part of the family? I'm not sure about the prices, but there's a dog school nearby we could send the puppy there, and train it with the help of a specialist.
> 
> 
> 
> Basset hounds sounds nice, but here is the problem (it applies for you both), as you might know Portugal is kind of liberal with drugs, if you're caught with heroine or meth, there will be no charges, you only have to be in rehab. More than a normal burglar my mom is afraid of a drug-driven burglar, because since I'm on the outskirts of rural city, of course at the end of a road parallel to my neighborhood, dealers and junkies use to hang around (there's nothing but woods and a highway there), and sometimes they like to make "tastes" nearby since my whole area has poor light, my mom lives afraid that something might happen, specially because sometimes I'm not at home, I may work in another places and such. And so she asked to search for a dog to keep company and who is not afraid of biting in case of trouble, that is why I didn't say alarm dog. About alarm dogs, she doesn't want to upset the neighbors or having sleepless nights with a dog constantly barking (I sleep heavy, but she does not). And that's the main problem.


No, getting a dog as a puppy doesn't always mean it can live with cats. It can help, but prey drive is something very instinctual and can be very strong. It is generally advised that if a dog shows prey drive to make sure the cats have areas to escape and preferably, to supervise if the dog and cats are loose together.

A dog who is not afraid of biting in case of trouble is a real risk in unskilled hands. In the US for example, a well trained guard dog / personal protection dog can sell for over US$40,000! That is because of the very extensive testing and training required to not have the dog be a liability. Even within a breed that has a tendency towards guard behavior, there are many individual dogs not suited to it and many puppies with potential fail in the temperament testing as they mature. 

A good alarm dog does NOT constantly bark. That's a key point because a dog that barks at everything is useless as a watch dog. Like the story of "The Boy who Cried Wolf" because people get used to ignoring the dog's barking and if something really is a danger, no one is going to pay attention to the dog. Example, my male dog Chester only barks when needed but he has a deep and scary bark and at 75-80 lbs, he's big enough to intimidate. He doesn't bark at the mailman coming on the porch, recognizes the sounds of my parents' cars if they visit and doesn't bark but stranger approaches the house? He definitely lets them know there is a dog in the house and lets me know to check on what is outside. 

Most healthy adult dogs will not be able to get sufficient exercise in a house, no matter how large it is. You need to figure 30 minutes minimum of walking every day. No matter the weather and quite possibly more than 30 minutes for many breeds.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Some people were scared-to-death of my 116-pound black lab. He had a bark that rattled the windows but rarely used it and never came close to hurting anyone. 

Esther, my Plott, can put on a truly terrifying display and sound like all the Hounds of Hell but has never seriously considered hurting anyone. 

I wasn't necessarily recommending a Basset. Guinevere was just an example of a gentle dog whose bark was much worse than her bite. There are big, scary-looking dogs that can be both an audible and visual deterrent. 

I don't know if Portugal is as litigious as the U.S., but a dog who isn't afraid to bite and lacks serious professional training would not live long here.


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## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

Then as an alarm dog what do you recommend? A friend of mine has 3 small pinschers (do not know what type but they are small) and they surely bark every single time they see someone, it is pretty annoying.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

silveringking said:


> Then as an alarm dog what do you recommend? A friend of mine has 3 small pinschers (do not know what type but they are small) and they surely bark every single time they see someone, it is pretty annoying.


Can you tell us more about what other traits you'd want in a dog? For example, long coat or short coat or a coat that needs to be trimmed? Size range? Realistic amount of exercise you can regularly give the dog? Does the dog need to be good with other dogs?

What breeds overall are commonly available in your area?


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## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

Shell said:


> Can you tell us more about what other traits you'd want in a dog? For example, long coat or short coat or a coat that needs to be trimmed? Size range? Realistic amount of exercise you can regularly give the dog? Does the dog need to be good with other dogs?
> 
> What breeds overall are commonly available in your area?


Yes of for example long coat or short coat I don't know what is best, size medium to medium large, about exercise we could only give on the weekend, there is other dogs in the area so it must get along with them (one of my neighbors has a small blind dog I don't want my dog to hurt him), it must be a good company for my mother and easy to adapt if the family grows. Typical dogs we can see here, are European races (German Shepherds, European boxers, Terriers, Bulldogs), mainly Spanish and Portuguese races like Portuguese Water Dog, Serra da Estrela dog, etc, etc. Some famous asian races like Sharpeis are also saw, we can see North American races, like pitbulls, labradors, etc, etc, some Brazilian and Argentine races, like the Dogo Argentino ( I'm not sure if that's the name, but its like a white Argentinean pitbull).

Here's some info


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> about exercise we could only give on the weekend


This is your most limiting condition I think. Even the "lazier" giant breeds should really have a daily or almost daily stroll. Some dogs enjoy things like fetch so much that they can get pretty good exercise playing in the yard but that still means you have to be there, outside and interacting with the dog. 

Boxers and Labradors are generally good family breeds but would NOT do well with low exercise level, Labs are maybe a bit more likely to be okay with other dogs and cats than Boxers, I don't think either is known for dog aggression. Maybe something like an English Mastiff would be okay with lower exercise but isn't medium large at all. Pit bulls are generally wonderful with people including kids but are not known for being fine around cats (terriers often equals prey drive) and may have issues with other dogs.

A Portuguese Water Dog is a good size but requires clipping/grooming regularly, I think they are generally good with other dogs and pets so that might be an option.

Estrela Mountain Dogs are really rare in the US so I have never met one at all but they are livestock guard dogs so they would tend to have the territorial protective nature but that might be mostly towards animals like wolves that might attack sheep herds. 

A Dogo is a LOT of dog and not at all something I would recommend to a first time owner. I have a Rhodesian and a Pit Bull and fostered other Pits and I would still be hesitant to own a Dogo.


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## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

Tomorrow I will do a more extensive list, but for instance dobberman and rotweiller are also readily available... Dunno if that helps, but like I said most European breeds are available. Sharpeis scare me, and those asian dogs that I don't remember the name but have a long mane of fur and eat a lot, with a bit of effort probably I could get a Saint Bernard. I think I could get this , but not sure.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

A rottweiler or doberman is not going to do well with no exercise. My doberman mix required a good hour a day of mental stimulation (one on one training) plus physical activity of some kind (disc in the yard, climbing the playground across the street, long walks, ect). He would not have tolerated just sitting around for more than a day, two at most when I was really sick and even then I worked his brain hard. They are also not dogs for people without some dog experience or who are willing to get help from a trainer and put in some good hard work. They can be dog aggressive. 

I would say with your list a lab would be your best bet. A large black lab would look intimidating without running the risk of actually being dangerous (assuming the dog is from good lines with a solid temperament and raised properly). As a general rule labs get along with other dogs and pets and are tend to like people but will typically at least offer an alert bark when strangers approach. However almost any dog is going to need some exercise so you need to consider if you can provide that. If not you should reconsider getting a dog.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

silveringking said:


> Tomorrow I will do a more extensive list, but for instance dobberman and rotweiller are also readily available... Dunno if that helps, but like I said most European breeds are available. Sharpeis scare me, and those asian dogs that I don't remember the name but have a long mane of fur and eat a lot, with a bit of effort probably I could get a Saint Bernard. I think I could get this , but not sure.


Many spitz breeds are notorious for alarm barking. If European Breeds are available, you might want to look into German Spitz (Grossespitz) or Keeshonds (wolfspitz). They are maybe a bit on the small side (~25-30 lbs). German spitz have a history of being watch dogs, so they would fill that requirement; they generally get along with other animals and can be good family pets.

Pretty much any dog that you're looking at will need some form of exercise - even a 20-30 minute walk once a day can go a long way; I find for my dogs that it's not about the distance we travel, but just being in new surroundings with new things to sniff.


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## Na-Tasha (Aug 13, 2014)

I hesitate to say this, because with such a small amount of exercise, the dog would get bored... but either Smooth or Rough Collie. I know some proponents of the breed say they are very barky, but in my experience with my Rough Collie, she's the perfect watch dog (not guard dog, she will not chase or bite people), she has a very scary bark but doesn't bark at every movement or sound, she only barks when strangers show up (or when extremely excited about play time). I have seen grown men cross the street when they see us walking because she's "big" and watches them approach with her head held high, not because she barks or growls at them. Sometimes just the presence of a medium to large size dog will deter most petty criminals. Criminals drugged out of their heads probably wouldn't even notice a dog chewing on their arm...I don't think a dog would deter that type of criminal. Get motion detector lights and put alarms on the doors and windows, those have saved lives also.


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## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

Thank you so much for all the suggestions I will still make that list later, however I'll take every suggestion in mind except for the lab, I know how labs work, they are too friendly, in case of danger they could ask the menace for petting, labs are way much better for helping for instance disabled kids/adults because they are very smart and very friendly, I want something a bit less friendly, also sometimes they do not bark at all, my teachers lab knows me since puppy and she has not even once barked at me not even out of happiness, but thank you.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

The well-known "protection" breeds, without professional training and known temperament, may run and hide at the first sign of trouble.

I knew a Doberman who was scared of his shadow. When his owner had to climb in through a window of his own house 'cause he forgot his keys, he found the dog hiding under the bed, shaking. 

Sounds like you're looking for a dog who will be able to distinguish between friend or foe before they've actually seen them and remain silent or alarm bark appropriately. Good luck with that.


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## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

RonE said:


> The well-known "protection" breeds, without professional training and known temperament, may run and hide at the first sign of trouble.
> 
> I knew a Doberman who was scared of his shadow. When his owner had to climb in through a window of his own house 'cause he forgot his keys, he found the dog hiding under the bed, shaking.
> 
> Sounds like you're looking for a dog who will be able to distinguish between friend or foe before they've actually seen them and remain silent or alarm bark appropriately. Good luck with that.


Not quite... but I took in consideration all suggestions, I just said I have experience with Labradors, but thank you so much.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

As a few people said, a black Lab is a very scary "Looking" dog. My avatar shows my brown Lab mix. He is useless as a protection dog, very friendly and trained never to bite. However, he was an excellent alarm dog and most people were scared of him at first, b/c of his impressive bark, and intensity. It was a 'bluff' - he was allowed to bark at his friends as a pup, and continued as an adult, trained to keep Quiet on cue, when required. In the park, when children came up, he would bark. I'd tell them he was friendly and they'd pet him ... they'd stop petting, and he continued barking ... so they learned to pet him to keep him quiet.

On the other hand, when people come to the door, Shep barks before they ring the bell. People who don't know him, ring the bell and then quickly back away, very wary (worried!) when I open the door. 

If someone is 'testing' my house, they'll go elsewhere. On the other hand, if a 'friend' or neighbor wanted to break into my house, the Shep would be happy to show them the safe and open it for them, then go to sleep....


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

I live with two Keeshonds (wolfspitz) and they are both good alarm barkers (they were bred to be watchdogs for barges), but their only issue is that they often bark at the cat across the street or a car going by, as well as people like the mailman. They won't know the difference between your brother coming for a visit or an intruder. Not very scary looking (very fluffy!), but they won't let anyone come near without letting you know about it.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Instead of trying to find a "guard dog," I would make a list of what you want generally in a dog. It sounds like you aren't actually experiencing any danger right now and want a dog sort of "just in case," is that correct? If so, keep in mind that probably your dog will never actually have to guard you, yet you will have to live with it just the same. Most of the time a dog is going to be a visual deterrent or make a huge ruckus and scare people off, anyway, not actually attack anyone. 

So I'd make a list of dogs I generally fit with, then choose the most intimidating looking and/or likely to alert bark. 

ETA: Having a truly guardy dog is not a piece of cake. It's actually really a drag at times. Yes, it's nice to feel safe in certain situations. But they also require a lot of management the rest of the time.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

I would like to know more about your threat(s), do understand you said drug fueled individuals. What type of area the dogs would need to cover. in house with your mom or left out to their own on your property (fenced or not fenced) dogs are very vulnerable if you don't match the number with the type of dogs you will need to be successful up against the threats they will be up against... Your dog wont last long for your investment of one if all considerations are not met.

I love my cane corso, very loyal and her loyalty / devotion makes her very willing to work with as a team being independent is truly having the ability to not wait for your permission to make decision to act on.. Very keen intelligence in her.. Nobody's fool.


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

Wolf type dogs are prone to ranging away from your property but I do love them. Of course I have enough property to let them do that. Otherwise your going to have to buy a fence. For the price of the fence you could get a Dogo Argentino. Any of the breeds that guard etc are going to need a lot of your time and attention especially during the first year. Lack of training can cost you $$$$ in the end. My favorite all around breed for temperament, guarding and general smarts is the Dogo. They really do not want to be anywhere else but with you or under you or on you if you sit stationary for to long of a period. Dogo's typically will not attack other dogs its not in the breed they are pack hunters and cooperative. However if another dog attacks your Dogo your Dogo will not hesitate to defend itself. If someone or thing attacks you your Dogo will absolutely come unglued. My Female Dogo Maggie will be bred in about 8 months. I'm not a breeder but I will have a few extra pup's. I'm more interested in getting them a good home than selling them for 2K a pop. Two of the pup's go to Solid Kennels for the stud fee the rest I am trying to find proper homes. If your interested let me know. Both Dam and Sire are UKC registered.

Mingo & Ringo my Hybrid Wolves

















MY absolute fav is my Dogo Maggie. She's 8 months old in these photo's and 82 lbs.

















Maggie's Boy Friend Kimbo Slice from Solid Kennels in Texas. He is a brute deluxe.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

...Those wolf hybrids are not wolf hybrids. They are laking every single characteristic of an actual wolf hybrid. They're beautiful, but yeah. No.


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

Well when you mix a German Shepherd with a wolf what would you call it? This was their mother. She was rescued out of her den as a pup after her mom was killed by some cow hands up near Yellow Stone..


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

we lived down the road from a (self proclaimed wolf " rescue/sanctuary" ) not sure how they claimed sanctuary when they were breeding .... wolves, to GSD's. ?? When the hybrids got loose there wasn't much of a visual difference to GSDs, but their behavior was different aloof to extreme aloof they would not even go back to their home or owner. Wonder around and keep a distance from their own property but never go to the property even to rejoin the other dogs. They had to come out and dart them to get them back or kill them for threatening people trying to get out of their home to their cars to go to work in the mornings on their own properties that lived across from the dogs property. That personal experience I didn't find it a good cross between species.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Wolf hybrids, especially high contents, would make horrible guard animals.


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

"Wolf hybrids, especially high contents, would make horrible guard animals."


Not to mention you can give up trying to raise chickens , rabbits or any other small game animals with them around. Plus you better know how to do sutures on a dog. They will come home wounded frequently.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

It is completely irresponsible for you to suggest a high-content wolfdog to someone who wants a guard animal. There are members here who own wolfdogs and work in wolfdog rescue, and they would NEVER suggest a wolfdog for that purpose, plus they would stress that wolfdogs need proper containment. And that's not even getting into winter wolf syndrome.

Here are what their wolfdogs look like:

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/92665-selene-loki-enjoying-bones.html
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/87668-tacomas-photoshoot-today.html

And here's a guide for recognizing a wolf hybrid:
http://www.saintfrancissanctuary.org/forms/ID Guide.pdf

And another (lots of photos):
http://yamnuskawolfdogsanctuary.com...physical-differences-between-wolves-and-dogs/

Among other things, that mother (who is supposedly 100% wolf?) has ears that are much larger than wolf ears and are not well-furred, plus are very narrowly spaced.


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

Crantastic said:


> It is completely irresponsible for you to suggest a high-content wolfdog to someone who wants a guard animal. There are members here who own wolfdogs and work in wolfdog rescue, and they would NEVER suggest a wolfdog for that purpose, plus they would stress that wolfdogs need proper containment. And that's not even getting into winter wolf syndrome.
> .



No one on this thread has even remotely suggested getting any level of wolf hybrid as a guard dog except the original poster of the thread. Every reply to his post has done nothing but detail the problems he would encounter if he choose to do so. Maybe you should have taken the time to read the post on this thread. You've been posting one would assume that you had.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

ELRod said:


> Well when you mix a German Shepherd with a wolf what would you call it? This was their mother. She was rescued out of her den as a pup after her mom was killed by some cow hands up near Yellow Stone..


First, pulling a animal from a den is not rescuing, its called den robbing. Second, That animal is not a wolf. She at most is a low content wolfdog. A pure wolf or even a high content wolfdog will look like a pure wolf. This picture alone shows tons of husky and malamute traits. I mean my goodness look at those huge ears. Wolves do not have huge big ears like that, lol.
Wolfdogs make really poor guard dogs. Wolves and even higher contents have a natural instinct to be terrified of strangers, so they are going to run and hide instead of guard anything. On top of that they will not stick around you're property. Youre animals being they are out of that female would be considered a low/no. Once you breed such a low content animal with a dog theres barely any wolf left in them.

This is my female, and she looks like a pure wolf yet she is not


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

ELRod said:


> No one on this thread has even remotely suggested getting any level of wolf hybrid as a guard dog except the original poster of the thread. Every reply to his post has done nothing but detail the problems he would encounter if he choose to do so. Maybe you should have taken the time to read the post on this thread. You've been posting one would assume that you had.


How is showing your supposed "wolfdog" off-leash, with chickens, pointing out that they're not like normal dogs? I know you suggested a dogo rather than a wolf hybrid as a guard animal, but claiming that your dogs are high contents and that they act like normal dogs is not helping anyone.

You also quoted and sarcastically replied to my post about how wolfdogs make bad guard animals, which made it seem like you disagreed.


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

Oh! I see you want to argue over the purity of a wolf not what type guard dog this guy should get. In the purest codified data you are correct. I'm a cattle rancher I operate in 3 states. I have a slightly different perspective of a wolf. Yours are in a book or online and mine eat my calves, live in dens and run in a packs on my property. Some are tagged up in Idaho S of the Snake river and some aren't. They also breed with wild domestic dogs from other ranches. If you would care to discus that instead of hijacking someone else's topic I would gladly accommodate you on a new thread. The two Dogs in the photo's are half breeds from the packs on our properties. Like it or not they are part wolf and behave so.

Also if you lived out in the country and raised your own food you might understand why that information would come in handy and be very helpful.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

ELRod said:


> Wolf type dogs are prone to ranging away from your property but I do love them. Of course I have enough property to let them do that. Otherwise your going to have to buy a fence. For the price of the fence you could get a Dogo Argentino. Any of the breeds that guard etc are going to need a lot of your time and attention especially during the first year. Lack of training can cost you $$$$ in the end. My favorite all around breed for temperament, guarding and general smarts is the Dogo. They really do not want to be anywhere else but with you or under you or on you if you sit stationary for to long of a period. Dogo's typically will not attack other dogs its not in the breed they are pack hunters and cooperative. However if another dog attacks your Dogo your Dogo will not hesitate to defend itself. If someone or thing attacks you your Dogo will absolutely come unglued. My Female Dogo Maggie will be bred in about 8 months. *I'm not a breeder but I will have a few extra pup's.* I'm more interested in getting them a good home than selling them for 2K a pop. Two of the pup's go to Solid Kennels for the stud fee the rest I am trying to find proper homes. If your interested let me know. Both Dam and Sire are UKC registered.


Guess what, you are a breeder. Stud fee greatly implies intentional breeding, thus you are a breeder. Breeding any dog isn't something to take lightly but breeding a guardian type big game hunter like a Dogo is even more responsibility in terms of finding safe and suitable homes. 

Now, that said, your first few sentences were leading towards the "if you get a wolf-hybrid, then do this" much more than "Don't get a wolf hybrid, its a horrible idea" (and it is a horrible idea)

FIRST TIME DOG OWNER! I am not at all saying that first time owners cannot own "challenging" breeds. But those who do so responsibly will do so with a lot of effort and research. Since the OP is looking for a guard dog who has some levels of perception that even trained guard dogs don't really have and yet to be able to deal with minimal exercise and handled by his mother, then I would say that it is better to error on the side of caution and avoid the "challenging" breeds. 

Really, a big mutt who will bark at strangers but not at every rabbit is enough for the majority of people. I have people cross the street to avoid my dogs who are busy wagging tails and sniffing grass just because they are big, muscular and one is a stereotyped scary breed.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

ELRod said:


> Oh! I see you want to argue over the purity of a wolf not what type guard dog this guy should get. In the purest codified data you are correct. I'm a cattle rancher I operate in 3 states. I have a slightly different perspective of a wolf. Yours are in a book or online and mine eat my calves, live in dens and run in a packs on my property. Some are tagged up in Idaho S of the Snake river and some aren't. They also breed with wild domestic dogs from other ranches. If you would care to discus that instead of hijacking someone else's topic I would gladly accommodate you on a new thread. The two Dogs in the photo's are half breeds from the packs on our properties. Like it or not they are part wolf and behave so.
> 
> Also if you lived out in the country and raised your own food you might understand why that information would come in handy and be very helpful.


You're dogs are not half breeds or anywhere near it. The animal you pictured as the pure wolf mother is not a pure wolf, or a high or mid content wolfdogs. She is a low content wolfdog at most if not a pure blooded dog. You're dogs are just that DOGS, 0 wolf traits are showing in any of you're dogs or even the mother that you posted that you called a pure wolf.


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

Shell said:


> Guess what, you are a breeder. Stud fee greatly implies intentional breeding, thus you are a breeder. Breeding any dog isn't something to take lightly but breeding a guardian type big game hunter like a Dogo is even more responsibility in terms of finding safe and suitable homes.
> 
> Now, that said, your first few sentences were leading towards the "if you get a wolf-hybrid, then do this" much more than "Don't get a wolf hybrid, its a horrible idea" (and it is a horrible idea)
> 
> ...


The original poster implicitly said I do not want to build a fence but had been looking at a Wolf. That should explain my first three sentences to you. So all things in their complete context not a single sentence. We obviously have different ways in saying that would be a bad idea. I'm not a professional dog breeder or I would sell them and charge a stud fee instead of pay one. Once again context but yes I do breed for my own needs because Dogo's cost to much. My wording good or bad was just to let the guy know I'm a dog owner not a kennel so once again context. If I have extra's puppies and after I get to know someone and their situation I am typically very generous with my animals. As far as experience with large breeds it doesn't really matter if you have the time facilities and commitment. The original poster was also looking at a Cane Corso which if you think Dogo's are dangerous well go play with someone else's Cane Corso. A Dogo is a much better selection. Anyone considering the choices the original poster implied was going to spend some money not pick pound pooch. Is there going to be a fourth community admin coming to have a dialog other than the original poster of the topic?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

ELRod said:


> The original poster implicitly said I do not want to build a fence but had been looking at a Wolf. That should explain my first three sentences to you. So all things in their complete context not a single sentence. We obviously have different ways in saying that would be a bad idea. I'm not a professional dog breeder or I would sell them and charge a stud fee instead of pay one. Once again context but yes I do breed for my own needs because Dogo's cost to much. My wording good or bad was just to let the guy know I'm a dog owner not a kennel so once again context. If I have extra's puppies and after I get to know someone and their situation I am typically very generous with my animals. As far as experience with large breeds it doesn't really matter if you have the time facilities and commitment. The original poster was also looking at a Cane Corso which if you think Dogo's are dangerous well go play with someone else's Cane Corso. A Dogo is a much better selection. Anyone considering the choices the original poster implied was going to spend some money not pick pound pooch. Is there going to be a fourth community admin coming to have a dialog other than the original poster of the topic?


You said "I am not a breeder." but you are breeding your dog(s) and therefore, you are a breeder. With all the responsibility that should/does entail.

I've met some Cane Corsos, wouldn't suggest them at all to the OP. That doesn't mean I'd suggest a Dogo either. 

Yes, I do think commitment matters, not just with large breeds but with dogs in general, and this particular OP doesn't appear to have the commitment needed for a "proper" guard dog. By saying he/she can only exercise on the weekends is a clear indication that time isn't available. A dog expected to guard against wolves or coyotes is not the same as a dog expected to guard against humans. The liability is massively different, the training different and the instincts are different. 

There is nothing wrong with a "pound pooch" if that dog suits an individual's needs. So far, everything the OP has said suggests that a large breed mutt who barks at strangers is really the sweet spot between a dog that is dangerous for them to own and a dog that is not a deterrent to the average criminal.


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## silveringking (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi people, calm down, when I came here I just wanted an opinion, not a flamewar, so a couple of things: I know little about dogs, that's why I was asked, my property is big does not have fences but it does have walls (part of it is a cement wall with some fence above that reaches the size of an adult male) and yes I was willing to spend some money. Now if you all want to you can ask questions like civilized people (no offense).


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

I couldn't agree more with everything you said in that post Shell. A healthy back band forth between experienced dog owners could be more educational to to him than a strange flame war that tracks on and off topic which is what has transpired.


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## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

silveringking said:


> Hi people, calm down, when I came here I just wanted an opinion, not a flamewar, so a couple of things: I know little about dogs, that's why I was asked, my property is big does not have fences but it does have walls (part of it is a cement wall with some fence above that reaches the size of an adult male) and yes I was willing to spend some money. Now if you all want to you can ask questions like civilized people (no offense).


LMAO! welcome back to your thread. Sorry for all the wall paper but there's still a lot of good information from many people with good intentions you might find helpful in making your selection. You can ignore our wolf purity debate and accept that everyone who posted recommends against you getting any form of Wolf type dog be it 1/4, 1/2 or full blooded unless you really don't like your neighbors. Happy dog selecting.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

ELRod said:


> The original poster implicitly said I do not want to build a fence but had been looking at a Wolf. That should explain my first three sentences to you. So all things in their complete context not a single sentence. We obviously have different ways in saying that would be a bad idea. I'm not a professional dog breeder or I would sell them and charge a stud fee instead of pay one. Once again context but yes I do breed for my own needs because Dogo's cost to much. My wording good or bad was just to let the guy know I'm a dog owner not a kennel so once again context. If I have extra's puppies and after I get to know someone and their situation I am typically very generous with my animals. As far as experience with large breeds it doesn't really matter if you have the time facilities and commitment. The original poster was also looking at a Cane Corso which if you think Dogo's are dangerous well go play with someone else's Cane Corso. A Dogo is a much better selection. Anyone considering the choices the original poster implied was going to spend some money not pick pound pooch. Is there going to be a fourth community admin coming to have a dialog other than the original poster of the topic?


Actually the original poster was considering a CSV, a breed of dog with recent wolf ancestry (some lines more recent than others), probably more wolf than your dogs but not much. You are stuck in this argument because you are insistent that your dogs are half wolf and want to argue with an actual High Content Wolf Dog owner about it (or are completely ignoring her posts which seems to be more the case). What you also seem to be ignoring is that the original poster has no dog experience, does not want to properly fence their property, wants a dog that is good with other dogs, good with people, good with small animals, and requires no exercise. I would never suggest a Dogo to a person with no dog experience who does not intend to exercise their dog. The op wants a dog that will naturally know when something is a threat and when it isn't, but is not equipped to handle a dog with protective drives. This is not a good situation.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

maybe there is a fine line that I am not seeing, but there are breeds of dogs out there that have no boundaries, they will perceive a threat and without thought engage to disable it physically they don't need training.. it does not mean this breed is difficult to own or there is something not right with them. If you don't want a breed to do their job . Yes do not get a breed that will. Lots of breeds out there that do have more boundaries that do not include contact with a threat, deterring ,warning, herding off first only physical engaging when there is no other way and it is an immediate threat of harm to their owners directly. Still if the OP is dealing with Drug impaired desperate individuals one dog is not enough, they maybe excellent first alarm, but I would have more levels of security, cameras, yard lights, fire arm,.

yes you should have a fenced area.. even if it is just around the house where it is most important. There is no benefit in having a dog that isn't kept close to what they are guarding that is the most important to safe guard.


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