# Puppy & Work...I'm getting cold feet



## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

I've never had a puppy before, but I've had dogs and enjoyed them. My previous dog died over the summer. She was with the family for 14 years. 

I decided to invest in a puppy, but now I am starting to get cold feet. I am picking the dog up tomorrow. I work 8 hours a day(as do most people) and I am unsure of what to do with the dog. I have read that crating an 8 week old puppy that long is cruel and some say it is fine. I'm confused.


On some websites they suggested the following, but neither work for me. 

I live in a very rural place and getting a dog walker is not an option. Plus I do not want strangers coming into my house.

I work 45 min from home so I cannot come home to get the puppy and let him out.

My friends tell me not to worry about it, but I am worrying about it. For me its a big deal. 


I put 100.00 down on the puppy. Its an Australian Shepherd. If I decide not to take the dog I lose my deposit. 

If anyone has some suggestions I would love to hear it.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

A puppy cannot be left on its own for 8 hrs a day :/

Honestly, in this situation, you're better off adopting an older dog and waiting on a puppy until you have the time available for training.


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.

So does that mean everyone who has a job doesn't get a puppy? There must be others out there who do?


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

History_chick said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> So does that mean everyone who has a job doesn't get a puppy? There must be others out there who do?


Nope.. but they make arrangements for while they are at work. They either have someone drop in a few times during the day to let the puppy out for a pee/poop. They take them to doggy daycare (once old enough and properly vaccinated). They hire dogwalkers, etc. I've also heard of people taking 1-2 weeks off of work when the new puppy comes home to help them ease into the new living situation. Imagine leaving all your brothers and sisters and finding yourself ALONE in a house for 8 hours immediately. I'd be pretty freaked out!


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

Yeah please do not subject a puppy to 8 hours alone a day it is cruel.

Get an older dog who is use to being on its own.


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

The problem is I cannot find an older dog of the breed I want, which is one reason I am looking at a younger dog. Shelter dogs are out! I refuse to pay the money they demand.

If I could find an older dog I wouldnt be opposed to that. Problem is finding one.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

History_chick said:


> The problem is I cannot find an older dog of the breed I want, which is one reason I am looking at a younger dog. Shelter dogs are out! I refuse to pay the money they demand.


The price of a quality pup from a reputable breeder is far more than what you'd ever pay for a 'shelter dog'. Makes me wonder what sort of breeder you went with... 

Secondly, there are breed specific rescues. Have you looked into those? You may not get the dog you want tomorrow, but if you have a bit of patience you will find one


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## Pynzie (Jan 15, 2010)

You can google "australian shepherd rescue" and find a bunch of great dogs. Some shelters and rescues charge more than others, but at lots of places the money just goes to covering the dogs shots, spay/neuter operation, food, care, etc.

Edit: Yeah, what Loki said. Posted at the same time.


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## jaxmagicman (Dec 13, 2010)

Don't you have friends or neighbors that could help take the dog out for a bathroom break? I understand strangers not wanted inside your house, but surely you know someone nearby that could let the puppy out to go to the bathroom.


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

Loki Love said:


> The price of a quality pup from a reputable breeder is far more than what you'd ever pay for a 'shelter dog'. Makes me wonder what sort of breeder you went with...
> 
> Secondly, there are breed specific rescues. Have you looked into those? You may not get the dog you want tomorrow, but if you have a bit of patience you will find one


I went with one of the top breeders around here. She is well known and yes the price I am paying for this dog is far more expensive than any dog I would pay at a shelter but it also doesnt have the issues a shelter dog has nor is it of questionable quality.

I have looked a breed specific shelters as well.



jaxmagicman said:


> Don't you have friends or neighbors that could help take the dog out for a bathroom break? I understand strangers not wanted inside your house, but surely you know someone nearby that could let the puppy out to go to the bathroom.


I wish I did.  everyone I know works. I'm 30. The one person who is out of a job wouldn't do it so there is no point in asking them. My neighbors are infirmed and very old.


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## Pynzie (Jan 15, 2010)

Maybe the person who doesn't have a job would be willing to do it if you paid a little.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

History_chick said:


> I went with one of the top breeders around here. She is well known and yes the price I am paying for this dog is far more expensive than any dog I would pay at a shelter but it also doesnt have the issues a shelter dog has nor is it of questionable quality.


So what does your breeder say then? What is her view on selling one of her pups to someone who may leave it alone for 8 hrs a day? What does she suggest?


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

Pynzie said:


> Maybe the person who doesn't have a job would be willing to do it if you paid a little.


That is always a thought! 



Loki Love said:


> So what does your breeder say then? What is her view on selling one of her pups to someone who may leave it alone for 8 hrs a day? What does she suggest?


I dunno. When I handed in my information she saw that I worked. She knows I work in a school.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

History_chick said:


> I dunno. When I handed in my information she saw that I worked. She knows I work in a school.


Ok..

In any case - good luck.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Help me with the logic... You're concerned about what kind of history/breeding a shelter dog may have, yet you'd be willing to subject an 8 week old put to a history of solitude during the formative months of his or her life? I don't follow. Does the breeder know you'll be away from the pup this long...they should have asked to protect their product. The $100 isn't worth the risk IMO. These early months are way to valuable in terms of the pups learning to gamble on things working out. I wouldn't do it if I were in your shoes, but I wish all the best if you decide otherwise.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

In no way would I pick up that dog tomorrow if you can't make arrangements to have someone let him out and interact with him during the day. You're getting a very high-energy breed with special requirements. By choosing to ignore a key developmental time in his life, you're choosing a host of behavioral problems down the road. If you can't do this, don't get a puppy:

5:00 am up with pup to let her out, feed, play, train
6:30 am puppy naps while I got ready for work
7:30 am out for last pee/poop, then crate puppy
11:30 am home from work to let puppy out, feed, play, train
1:30 pm back to work
5:30 pm home to let puppy out, feed play, train
11:00 pm last time out before bed
2:00-3:00 am puppy out for potty

rinse repeat. Once she had all of her shots, she was walked for exercise and to meet up with other dogs for play, taken to numerous training classes, etc. I easily filled 8 waking hours a day with her and she was so high-energy, she would have taken more. 

If you're not prepared to invest that much time and effort into it, again, don't pick that puppy up. JMO.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Shelter dogs do not necessarily have issues. The great majority of dogs in shelters came from good family homes, and it just became too inconvenient for the family to keep them. They were moving, had a new baby, got divorced etc etc. A very small minority would have been abused.

But the good thing about shelter dogs is you can get an adult and spend some time with it before you adopt it, and you can ask the volunteers/staff questions about temperament and background, and you will know roughly what you're gonna end up with. With a puppy, even from a reputable breeder, you don't know how the puppy will turn out personality and temperament wise.

And puppies are such a huge responsibility, they need to be socialised every day with both humans and dogs, and learn all of their basic manners, as well as being housetrained. Housetraining a puppy means taking it out every 20-30 minutes to not give it the opportunity to pee inside. And housetraining can take months.

If you don't get it right, you will end up with a dog that has a lot more issues than most shelter dogs.


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

I still wouldn't get a shelter dog. Their price is too high for what ya get. I wont budge on that and I won't be talked into it. 

However, this should make everyone happy. Since you all made me feel like a pile of crap I was talking to my friend about the situation. She was annoyed but some opinions, but gave me a solution. I shall drop off my puppy at her house, since she is home during the day. She has a daycare and raised a puppy not more than a year ago. Shes responsible and I have no problems with her taking the dog. Its also on the way to work.

I have the summers off so that won't be an issue and come Sept. the dog will stay at home with my two crazy cats.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

History_chick said:


> However, this should make everyone happy. Since you all made me feel like a pile of crap I was talking to my friend about the situation. She was annoyed but some opinions, but gave me a solution. I shall drop off my puppy at her house, since she is home during the day. She has a daycare and raised a puppy not more than a year ago. Shes responsible and I have no problems with her taking the dog. Its also on the way to work


Wow.. you came looking for advice and then weren't happy with what you heard. How tragic!

I am happy you have found a solution though.


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

No, I said that I felt like a pile of crap. It isn't that I didnt like what I heard, it was how I FELT. I was made out to be some horrible person for even suggesting such a thing, when I know that other people out there must do it as well. 

Either way it doesnt matter now cause I have a solution.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

History_chick said:


> The problem is I cannot find an older dog of the breed I want, which is one reason I am looking at a younger dog. Shelter dogs are out! I refuse to pay the money they demand.
> 
> If I could find an older dog I wouldnt be opposed to that. Problem is finding one.


Wow.. the dogs at the shelter where I work are $50. How much did you expect to pay? Six bucks?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

You shouldn't feel like a pile of crap. You should be happy that people here took the time to give you sound advice. They don't want you to end up with a dog with behavioral issues, so they told it to you straight, as you asked. No one said you were a bad _person_; they just pointed out that leaving a young pup alone so much during its formative period is a bad _idea_.

I'm glad you found a solution. Be prepared in case it doesn't work out as you'd hoped, though -- your friend might decide that raising a pup while running a daycare is too much work, or your pup might bond to your friend and not to you because your friend is doing the bulk of the training and feeding. Make sure you have a plan B.


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

Binkalette said:


> Wow.. the dogs at the shelter where I work are $50. How much did you expect to pay? Six bucks?


They wanted $300.00



Crantastic said:


> You shouldn't feel like a pile of crap. You should be happy that people here took the time to give you sound advice. They don't want you to end up with a dog with behavioral issues, so they told it to you straight, as you asked. No one said you were a bad _person_; they just pointed out that leaving a young pup alone so much during its formative period is a bad _idea_.
> 
> I'm glad you found a solution. Be prepared in case it doesn't work out as you'd hoped, though -- your friend might decide that raising a pup while running a daycare is too much work, or your pup might bond to your friend and not to you because your friend is doing the bulk of the training and feeding. Make sure you have a plan B.


There is no plan B.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

Please do well by this puppy, be patient, kind, and give him the attention and love he needs and deserves. Take the time to train him. Take the time to research HOW to train him. He is an infant and will require nearly as much attention and patience as one. He knows nothing about the world and it is completely up to you to teach him. Socialize him well. Otherwise he could easily become one of these "problem" shelter dogs you speak of.


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## kelliejh (Dec 28, 2010)

Do not let people make you feel bad. I understand where you are coming from . I got my puppy two weeks ago ( i had two weeks off from work for various reasons ) and i have spent every waking moment with him. I need to go back to work next week and I am dreading it. Mostly because i feel horrible leaving the little guy. Although in my situation I am able to come home at lunch to take him out. Majority of people I have talked to say that dogs really do not have a sense of time 30 minutes and a couple hours in their mind is the same. It is just the potty aspect that is important. I think you have found a great solution. That is very nice of your friend to help out. I know you will absolutely adore your pup and really enjoy your time with him. And the fact that you are worried about this and looking for help shows you will be a good concerned owner. Like I said, dont let people make you feel bad. Everyone is trying to give you advice, some people just dont know how to put it across in a nice way : ) Good Luck


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## ilovejoelfavre (Dec 28, 2010)

heres an idea, WAIT until the summer to get a Puppy!!!!!!!! also how snobby are you...you must not know alot about dogs if your not willing to get shelter dog!!!! you want a dog for the NAME BRAND you are getting not for a life long Friend NEWS FLASH....Puppys are BABIES!!!!! would you lock you newborn up in a crate while your at work because its easy...DOG NEGLECT!!!!! to ME that is Animal Abuse!!!

unless you have a boyfriend or child or someone to take your dog out to potty..your setting that dog up to be terrible and 9 times out of 10 you'll want to give it to that same Shelter (you know the one you wont get a dog at) This happends every day in America and all over the world... Think things Through NEVER GET a puppy because you think they are cute...there ALOT OF WORK and LIFE LONG CCCCCCCCCOMMITTTTTTTTTTMENTTTTTT!!!!!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

History_chick, please don't assume the above poster (a newbie with just four posts) is representative of this board. Most people here do want to help. Sometimes it can be hard to gauge tone with written words like this, but I doubt anyone wanted to make you feel like crap. We are all here if you have any questions about raising and training your pup, and we _love_ puppy pictures. Aussies are a popular breed here as well. 

ilovejoelfavre, did you read the whole thread? The OP has worked out a solution. The pup will get plenty of bathroom breaks. I'm not even going to comment on the rest of your post other than to say it was rude. There are ways to get your point across without personally insulting people.


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## Lisaandkevin (Dec 29, 2010)

[*]I work 45 min from home so I cannot come home to get the puppy and let him out.

My friends tell me not to worry about it, but I am worrying about it. For me its a big deal. 


Okay so I'm sorry and perhaps not the best person to respond atm as i have a pregnant bitch that wasnt planned due to ill advice.

I got both of my dogs as puppies and crete trained them for 8hrs a day! now they can walk around the house and go back to their crete when ever they like they have one each and if i get delayed at work both dogs are fantastic all dogs start as puppies and learn the requirements of the owners. You dont need to be judge or feel bad. the puppy will start to rely on your friend being there every few hours to let it out. I would say give it 3-4 months making a few accidents for when you come home as they grow the bladder adapts... hope i helped a little...


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## jaxmagicman (Dec 13, 2010)

History_chick said:


> No, I said that I felt like a pile of crap. It isn't that I didnt like what I heard, it was how I FELT. I was made out to be some horrible person for even suggesting such a thing, when I know that other people out there must do it as well.
> 
> Either way it doesnt matter now cause I have a solution.


It is true that other people do it. Doesn't make it any less of a bad idea. We promise, we weren't trying to make you feel like a pile of crap, just giving you sound advice.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

there are people who do work 8hrs a day and they do crate a puppy but that doesn't make it right. We were looking for another dog, the thought of a young puppy was just yucky to me LOL. So, we got an almost five month old puppy. Still, I wouldn't leave her for 8hrs, not counting travel, at five months. If you work at a school, your best bet if you want a puppy is to get one when you're off of school but you still can't leave her in a crate that long. I see you found a friend to take her; that's good. Sorry you felt like crap but you must have known this isn't the right thing to do because you asked here!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm sorry you feel like crap. DF can definitely be more of a "brutally honest" kind of place rather than an "unconditional support" kind of place. But I think generally people are trying to give sincere advice when asked for it. It isn't always what you (general "you") want to hear, but often what you need to hear.


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## Horseshoe (Nov 10, 2010)

(don't read this with a tone) Around here they want 3-400 and I wont go into what the breed spec. rescues around here want. I did go to a barkfest a couple months ago where there were lots of rescue groups, they (different rescues) said their dogs were ready for new homes. I was shocked at how ill behaved, mannered they were...people commented all over the place (in a neg) about the rescue dogs. (Dogs growling around kids, breaking out in fights, starting fights with gen. public peoples dogs...it was shocking. However one rescue did a really good job promoting/educating and had really nice dogs, this one was a breed spec.(bull terriers) and I would have paid the money there, but not for the others as they didn't do the work and it really made the rescues look bad. It seemed to me it was get them gone fast. What a shame.

So if someone doesn't want to get a dog from a shelter/rescue, it doesn't make them a "snob" or "bad person". You can't force your views on other people. I wouldn't get a non-spec. breed from a shelter because I don't want to. I like papers but if you don't thats fine too. I'm not going to judge. So if the OP wants to get a spec breed great if not great. 

I'll be taking my pup with me to my moms while I'm in school but they are old so I'll be looking into doggy daycare, ok truth: I don't trust my parents with my pup...LOL but I trust my husband even less. (this you can read with a tone)

Do you have pics of the pup??? If I knew how to post them I would post mine.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I will put something on here that may be helpful. I brought Questa home at age 7.5 weeks in July. I work every day. I took a few days off when I first got her and then went back to work. As some of you will recall from this thread: http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/81271-questas-puppy-journal.html I built Questa a "Puppy Palace" for days. 

I took her all over the place with me when I was home and she went to Puppy classes. She is a very well socialized little dog who will be 7 months old on Monday! 

I built her a "puppy palace" for during the day. It consisted of 42inch wide chain link gates laid on their sides and attached to her crate. I put news papers down on the concrete floor (walk out basement.. that is finished except for the furnace room where the Puppy Palace is). 

In all this time, this dog has NEVER pooped or Pee'd in my house (just the puppy palace on the papers and 2X in her crate by accident). She has an outdoor kennel for days that are nice and she has two large indoor crates since the Puppy palace was taken down (not needed now). She has been to Puppy class and will be in Beginner 1 obedience in January. She asks to go out so potty training is going the way it should. She is doing well on basic obedience. She goes in stores and every where else with me and is a well adjusted, fun, dog. 

I will add that I leave for work at 6:00AM and return at 4:00PM.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

History_chick said:


> I still wouldn't get a shelter dog. Their price is too high for what ya get. I wont budge on that and I won't be talked into it.


I'm sorry but I have to say that I'm a tad offended by that. My little josephine is from a shelter & is a wonderful little puppy, so smart... smarter then most from breeders! (No offence) plus MY money went to help other dogs in need & was tax deductable... more then I can say about yours . Plus my girl came: spayed, microchipped & with her first 2 rounds of shots!! .



> However, this should make everyone happy. Since you all made me feel like a pile of crap I was talking to my friend about the situation. She was annoyed but some opinions, but gave me a solution. I shall drop off my puppy at her house, since she is home during the day. She has a daycare and raised a puppy not more than a year ago. Shes responsible and I have no problems with her taking the dog. Its also on the way to work.


Well it waas unresonable of you to expect a puppy to stay in a crate (or anywhere for that matter) alone for that long, I wouldn't even make my 8 yr old do that!! 



> I have the summers off so that won't be an issue and come Sept. the dog will stay at home with my two crazy cats.


I don't think yiu did the research on the breed you got, aussies are herding dogs & have to me trained not to herd animals such as cats, small dogs/animals, kids, bikes, cars anything moving. Are you prepared to deal with the behavior if it comes up?


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

History_chick said:


> I still wouldn't get a shelter dog. Their price is too high for what ya get.


There are MANY MANY valid reasons not to want a shelter dog but this is just crazy and actually offensive to me. I see a LOT of dogs on a day to day basis and I would say there are equally as many ill mannered, ill health shelter dogs as there are ill mannered, ill health dogs from a breeder. Shelter dogs are a lot of work because many of them didn't have a great start to life, but puppies are as much, usually more work because they have NO foundation. If you said you didn't want a shelter dog because you have your heart set on an aussie, you love the breeder you found, and you want to raise a dog from puppyhood I would have no issue. The fact that you are discrediting ALL shelter dogs as junk really didn't sit well with me. 

The $150 my shelter charged me for Brody is a bargain for what I got. I got a loyal, loving, intelligent dog that makes me happy every day (AND he can be left reliably in the house for 8 hours a day! Hasn't had an accident yet!). I still foster dogs for them and haven't come across a dog that I would say $150 was too much to ask for the animal. It kills me when people say it's wrong to charge money for dogs in shelters because obviously something has to be wrong for them to wind up there. I've had fully trained year old dogs turn up at my shelter for no reason other than their owner lost their job and couldn't afford them anymore. It's a shame, but good that the dog can get a fresh start.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

In regards to shelter dogs and their prices, boy, can they vary! We have a humane society that I think the most expensive dog is $175 or so...other shelters they can be up over $300.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree that some shelters have very high prices. Gracie was a rescue--her fee was 120 and she was spayed, chipped and had her first two sets of shots. I consider that a good deal since her chip and spay most likely would have cost me that in the first place.

OP--if you want a purebred dog, that is fine (I have one as well as our rescue pup), but please be careful with your tone in regards to rescue/shelter dogs. Many of us have opened our homes to dogs who would have been PTS otherwise and many (me included) do a lot of rescue work. Some rescue dogs do have issues, but many are very happy, loyal and loving companions. I have helped place numerous puppies and adult dogs in their new forever homes and I am happy to say that they are all doing well.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

theyogachick said:


> I agree that some shelters have very high prices. Gracie was a rescue--her fee was 120 and she was spayed, chipped and had her first two sets of shots. I consider that a good deal since her chip and spay most likely would have cost me that in the first place.
> 
> .


 We adopted one dog from a rescue. She was 7 or 8 years old, considered a senior and half price, at $75. They had well over $1000 in medical care for her and I thought her fee was too cheap (we paid the full fee and then some but still!). Our coonhound that we only had a couple months was $300. Both had their shots and were spayed. Our lovely Brittany who we got on Dec 10th was $700, I actually asked why she was so cheap!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> In regards to shelter dogs and their prices, boy, can they vary! We have a humane society that I think the most expensive dog is $175 or so...other shelters they can be up over $300.


Now I will say that not all shelters are the cream of the crop. But if you work through rescue as I did they are pretty good at working with the shelters & even arrainging for transport if the dog is too far. Regardless, of the amount they charge it goes to a GOOD CAUSE! (& I think it depends on where you live) josephine was to be $250 but they wdeducted it to $50 because I had to drive so far.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

dogdragoness said:


> Now I will say that not all shelters are the cream of the crop. But if you work through rescue as I did they are pretty good at working with the shelters & even arrainging for transport if the dog is too far. Regardless, of the amount they charge it goes to a GOOD CAUSE! (& I think it depends on where you live) josephine was to be $250 but they wdeducted it to $50 because I had to drive so far.


Our deaings with foxhound rescue was awesome, if I could find a rescue like that again, I'd adopt in a heartbeat!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Lindbert said:


> The fact that you are discrediting ALL shelter dogs as junk really didn't sit well with me.


I agree. And given your situation of work/living, a shelter dog might have been an awesome option that it sounds like you closed your mind to early on. I paid all of $1.25 for my (then) 2 year old shelter dog that came housetrained, neutered, vaccinated, and trained out of chewing and most other bad habits. The owners had moved to a place that didn't take dogs....

That said, if you got the puppy... start thinking of a plan B. Plan B might be taking the dog with you to the town you work in and dropping him off at daycare (after all shots of course). Plan B might be an ex-pen with puppy pads similar to what Elana did. I don't know your situation so I can't help you think of other "Plan B's" but that's what you should be brainstorming now.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I am sorry the OP has not been back. I had mostly rescue dogs except for two Standard Poodles (one from a BYB when I was 8 years old or so) until I got the German Shepherds.. and even then I looked at GSD rescues but between the prices (nothing under $350) and the conceerns about genetic health issues if I got a puppy (nothing under $450) and the fact that most would not adopt to a single person (who has a good job and owns their own house) I ended up purchasing from a breeder. 

Best dog I ever owned was free from another farmer where the dog had been dropped off pregnant. He was going to 'dispose' of her after the puppies were weaned and I took her. REALLY good dog. 

Now that I am into the GSD breed I do not know if I will have a rescue dog again. I still support adoptions and rescue dogs... absolutely.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I can understand why if you are into showing a certain breed I can understand rescue being not an option, but for someone to say they don't want a rescue/shelter dog just because they are not worth the money is what I was getting at.

I happen to think that my josephine (pictured below) is a wonderful edition to our family & is is a tad insulting for someone to make a snobbish comment as the OP said (not calling her a snob, just what she said)


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Rescued dogs, especially unplanned 'designer' dogs, have the potential for hybrid vigor, in addition to having the same canine genes as a "bought" dog


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Actually, this may have been true at one time.. but not so much now. Cornell did a study on Hip dyslplasia and found it has become very common in rescue dogs because the parent dogs are usually from less than stellar sources (such as BYB's and Puppy mills). 

This does not mean you should not get a rescue dog as a pet. As I said before, I support getting rescue dogs even while I am on the verge of entering the world of responsible breeding...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

hanksimon said:


> Rescued dogs, especially unplanned 'designer' dogs, have the potential for hybrid vigor, in addition to having the same canine genes as a "bought" dog


There's really no such thing as hybrid vigor. It's all in the health of the breeding stock. If 2 unhealthy street mutts of unknown background breed, and 2 health-tested purebreds from a long line of healthy purebreds breed, the mutt pups are definitely NOT going to be healthier. 

To those who think shelter dogs are inferior---YOUR dog could someday become a shelter dog. If something happened to you, can you 100% guarantee your family wouldn't take your dog to a shelter, or give your dog to someone who will take the dog to a shelter? No guarantees once you're gone. Oops! I guess that makes your dog inferior. Oh well, better just kill them all.

Any dog can end up in a shelter for any reason. Doesn't make them bad dogs. There are some good reasons for buying a dog from a good responsible breeder. "Eew, shelter dogs are icky" is not one of them.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Willowy said:


> YOUR dog could someday become a shelter dog. If something happened to you, can you 100% guarantee your family wouldn't take your dog to a shelter, or give your dog to someone who will take the dog to a shelter? No guarantees once you're gone. Oops! I guess that makes your dog inferior. Oh well, better just kill them all.
> 
> Any dog can end up in a shelter for any reason. Doesn't make them bad dogs. There are some good reasons for buying a dog from a good responsible breeder. "Eew, shelter dogs are icky" is not one of them.


This so hits home with me. I know this and that is one reason I train so darn hard. I figure a well adjusted and well trained dog with a great temperament and no resource guarding will likely get a home if the unthinkable happened and my dog(s) ended up at a shelter. 

I have a plan but you know "..the best laid plans of mice and men.."


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I realize the OP has a plan for dealing with the long hours, but I wonder why s/he hasn't considered bringing the puppy home during a vacation. I'm a teacher and know from experience that careers in education are ideal for puppy raising because they come with enormous chunks of time off. I waited until Thanksgiving break to bring my second dog home...not as long of a break as I might have liked, but then she was a fully-housetrained shelter dog who didn't required quite as much supervision as a puppy. If ever I lost my mind and decided to bring home a puppy, I would certainly do it during the summer when I had three uninterrupted months to work with it.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I wondered this as well, my mother was a teacher for alomst 30 yrs before retiring last year & she gets every holiday the kids do. Makes me wonder if this pup is from on of those 'fly by night' breeders that advertizes in the local paper or at feed stores etc. Again, not an accusation, just merely a question. Becasuse the amount of money charged for a breeder-puppy doesn't always mean its of good quality I mean I've seen golden/labdoodles, chichons, & puggles to name a few go for $1000's some of which didn't come from that great of breeders.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

dogdragoness said:


> I wondered this as well, my mother was a teacher for alomst 30 yrs before retiring last year & she gets every holiday the kids do. Makes me wonder if this pup is from on of those 'fly by night' breeders that advertizes in the local paper or at feed stores etc. Again, not an accusation, just merely a question. _Becasuse the amount of money charged for a breeder-puppy doesn't always mean its of good quality I mean I've seen golden/labdoodles, chichons, & puggles to name a few go for $1000's some of which didn't come from that great of breeders_.


Agreed, and pet stores as well. 
Breeder doesn't always = Quality
Rescue/shelter dog doesn't always = Crap. 
My rescue dog is an absolute joy, and the most operant dog I have at the moment. 
When I have the time and resources, I'm going to adopt a shelter or rescue dog that someone threw away, and turn them into an agility star


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)




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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> My rescue dog is an absolute joy, and the most operant dog I have at the moment.
> When I have the time and resources, I'm going to adopt a shelter or rescue dog that someone threw away, and turn them into an agility star


THIS. One of my dogs was originally supposed to be "practice" for a couple before they had kids. When they had their first baby, they didn't pay enough attention to him so he became destructive. They put him out in the yard as a "watchdog". He started losing weight and not acting right so instead of taking him to the vet, they dropped him off at the SPCA.

After the initial adjustment period and treatment for Lyme's disease, he broke out of his shell and became my most biddable, operant dog. Trick training is SO much fun with him because he picks things up so quick and is willing to try anything. He will never be an agility star because he has chronic arthritis from the lyme's disease, but he is a star at kids' birthday parties and has convinced many parents to give a shelter dog a chance


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

After adopting josephine, though she isn't my first adopted rescue dog, the old feelings of satasfaction & warm fuzzies are abound again .

In further reference to price & breeder quality, the best dogs don't always come from breeders who charge rediculous amounts either but that doesn't mean they are any less good, bear my JRT was $350 & he was a successful, sound tempermented show dog for 5 yrs. Izze came from a BYB for $100 & she is the vbest dog I have ever had. One hypothetically can buy right from a byb if they have the experience though I don't recomend it... I always recomend rescue as the first option .

After adopting josephine, though she isn't my first adopted rescue dog, the old feelings of satasfaction & warm fuzzies are abound again .

In further reference to price & breeder quality, the best dogs don't always come from breeders who charge rediculous amounts either but that doesn't mean they are any less good, bear my JRT was $350 & he was a successful, sound tempermented show dog for 5 yrs. Izze came from a BYB for $100 & she is the vbest dog I have ever had. One hypothetically can buy right from a byb if they have the experience though I don't recomend it... I always recomend rescue as the first option .


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## FlashTheRottwuggle (Dec 28, 2009)

OK...here it goes...I will probably be blasted but you NEED to hear this. 

You shouldn't work yourself up over this so much. Yes, people who work 8 hour days or more get puppies. I work 45 minutes from home also and got Flash as an 8 week old pup last December. My adult son who lives with me worked 40 minutes from home as well in a different direction. We bought a crate that was twice as big as we needed, put a bed in one end and puppy pads in the other. After 3 DAYS, she stopped pooping in her crate and within TWO WEEKS barely ever peed. She figured out we would be home and waited. And no, she didn't get UTIs and she doesn't have behavior issues because of this. She still loves her crate but doesn't need to be in it. 

I wasn't a member of this forum before getting her, so I didn't hear all these issues and didn't really think about them. I knew people worked jobs and people got puppies. I got up extra early, fed her, took her out, played with her. Almost all of every evening was devoted to playing with her and training her. She is alive and fine and loves me so much that she is my constant shadow. If what I did was cruel, she doesn't show any effects of it. Luckily (in a way) my son is unemployed at the moment, so with having 4 dogs now, he is there to take them for a midday walk and let them out in the fenced yard. Flash started going to daycare 1-2 times per week when she was several months old which helped tire her out so I could do housework one night each week.

I say go for it, do the best you can, devote the time you do have to the puppy and everything will be just fine. If there's issues, I believe there were going to be issues anyways. The friend watching the pup is definitely a bonus.

I have to add that this thread alone has made me start rethinking the usefulness of this forum. To give advice and not just blindly support some one is one thing. But the outright attacks and rudeness shown to the OP on this thread is unbelievable. The OP doesn't want a rescue dog. It doesn't matter what his/her reasons are, they don't. Stop judging them. And the OP never stated that the puppy they were getting was cheaper than a rescue dog, just that the prices of rescue dogs were too high. I don't know where the OP lives but around here, many of the rescues are VERY expensive. I know they need to cover vet bills, food, etc but to charge $300-500 for a rescue dog and possibly more for a puppy when you can walk into a pet store and get the "sale" puppy for $199 is just driving an uninformed person to those puppy mill puppies. Also the OP might be paying big bucks at a reputable breeder, neither you nor I know. 

8 hours or more a day in a crate for a puppy isn't the best situation but it's not animal abuse. If it is than the 8 or more hours I have to spend at my office desk is terroristic torture. I would rather be in the very crate I kept Flash in for those 8 hours than at my desk. It's not an ideal situation but it's doable. If enough time is devoted to the puppy before and after work, the puppy will be fine. Your advice is perfect for the lucky people who don't have to work or have other people around to help them. It doesn't mean you should be telling people like the OP and myself that we can't have puppies. Get over yourselves!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

true it can be done but every puppy is different & high drive/energy breeds like aussies & other breeds like them typically don't do well in that kind of a situation & of course long term of long hrs with no one home to excersise & otherwise mentally stimulate this kind of dog is IMHO a shelter dog waiting to happen.

I'm glad that the OP has worked out a solution for the pup during the day, but that's not what we were concerned about, I didn't like what she said about rescue dogs. The way I read it she was implying that shelter dogs were broken & belonged on the island of misfit toys or something lol.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

FlashTheRottwuggle said:


> OK...here it goes...I will probably be blasted but you NEED to hear this.
> 
> You shouldn't work yourself up over this so much. Yes, people who work 8 hour days or more get puppies. I work 45 minutes from home also and got Flash as an 8 week old pup last December. My adult son who lives with me worked 40 minutes from home as well in a different direction. We bought a crate that was twice as big as we needed, put a bed in one end and puppy pads in the other. After 3 DAYS, she stopped pooping in her crate and within TWO WEEKS barely ever peed. She figured out we would be home and waited. And no, she didn't get UTIs and she doesn't have behavior issues because of this. She still loves her crate but doesn't need to be in it.
> 
> ...


I have a well bred dog, and I absolutely support well bred puppies. Always will.
All I saw were complete myths the OP mentioned about shelter/secondhand dogs, and I think those have every right to be debunked.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Only one person was actually rude, and that was a newbie with four posts total (who hasn't even posted since). I think it's silly to write off this forum as not useful because you disagree with what a couple of people said in this thread. I know I've learned so, so much here since I started reading last year.

Also, your situation with Flash sounds different from the OP's. The OP is getting an Aussie, a typically drivy, people-focused dog. The OP also claimed to be developing cold feet about getting a dog at all, and seemed very quick to dismiss every single suggestion or bit of advice we provided. Then she insulted shelter dogs by saying they all have issues and are of questionable quality. I'm surprised the thread stayed as polite as it did.


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## FlashTheRottwuggle (Dec 28, 2009)

Still if the OP doesn't want a shelter dog, then they don't. They don't need to be made to feel awful about it. 

As far as I know about shelter dogs and issues, I have one dog who was in a shelter, Colt. I personally have never met a dog with more issues in my life. Yet I love him and will continue to work with him. He has become my heart dog. Timber and Shanika were never in shelters and show less issues. Timber may have been abused before going to a rescue that exclusively uses foster homes. His only real issues are hating crates and food aggression. He gets so worked up in a crate in less than an hour that he gives himself explosive diarrhea and cuts himself on the crate. So I simply don't crate him. The food aggression we have been working with and he is getting much better. However I really tend to chalk the food aggression up to being a single dog for his first 2 1/2 years and his breed. Shanika simply has issues with holding her urine but she is 12. Not sure what we will do when my son starts working again.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Nobody should be made to feel bad for not getting a shelter pet. But if someone insults all shelter dogs like that, they can expect to be challenged. Some shelter dogs have issues, some don't. Some breeder dogs have issues, some don't. It depends on the individual dog. But it is not the dog's fault he ended up in a shelter (and ANY dog could end up in a shelter), so making a blanket statement like that will always get a negative response. Unless you're on some snobby "all shelter pets should die" forum, LOL.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I don't think the intention was to make the OP feel bad about not getting a shelter dog, it was to let them know that offensive generalizations that propagate myths that keep dogs in shelters are not acceptable, and will offend people. If someone came in here and said "I want a (breed) but I don't want to go to a breeder because the breeder doesn't deserve the fees they charge" I actually think it would get MUCH uglier than this has.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Lindbert said:


> I don't think the intention was to make the OP feel bad about not getting a shelter dog, it was to let them know that offensive generalizations that propagate myths that keep dogs in shelters are not acceptable, and will offend people. If someone came in here and said "I want a (breed) but I don't want to go to a breeder because the breeder doesn't deserve the fees they charge" I actually think it would get MUCH uglier than this has.


true it can be done but every puppy is different & high drive/energy breeds like aussies & other breeds like them typically don't do well in that kind of a situation & of course long term of long hrs with no one home to excersise & otherwise mentally stimulate this kind of dog is IMHO a shelter dog waiting to happen.

I'm glad that the OP has worked out a solution for the pup during the day, but that's not what we were concerned about, I didn't like what she said about rescue dogs. The way I read it she was implying that shelter dogs were broken & belonged on the island of misfit toys or something lol.


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## History_chick (Dec 28, 2010)

My OP had nothing to do with shelter dogs, and yes I did feel like shit after coming here. I was trying to be nice about not getting into a battle royal about shelter dogs VS the dog I wanted. Plus I'm a newbie. Newbie's shouldn't cause trouble. 

Plus Its all about choices. And frankly I wasn't thrilled with the shelter dogs that were being offered. The one was for hundred of dollars AND had a medical issue. AND when I said lets talk about the price they said NOPE. AND then they were on the radio 4 weeks later crying about how they needed money. Soured my taste to them. If other people want to get a dog from a shelter go for it. I'm not preventing anyone. For me it wasn't an option. 

Thankfully some people have been kind and sent me PMs. I appreciate that. But my taste has been soured and I won't come back. I'm sure its just another newbie under the bridge so whatever. 

Good luck with your dogs.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Lindbert said:


> I don't think the intention was to make the OP feel bad about not getting a shelter dog, it was to let them know that offensive generalizations that propagate myths that keep dogs in shelters are not acceptable, and will offend people.


Yes, this. I have a pure bred dog (had two, actually) and a shelter/rescue dog. The intent wasn't to convince the OP to get a shelter dog--just to caution about generalizations (intentional or otherwise) about all shelter dogs.

I do wish the OP luck with her puppy. I know I had challenges when I got Gracie and had to work, but I am glad the OP has worked things out. Best of luck (regardless of whether you return or not).


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## FlashTheRottwuggle (Dec 28, 2009)

History_chick said:


> But my taste has been soured and I won't come back. I'm sure its just another newbie under the bridge so whatever.
> 
> Good luck with your dogs.


^^^^^^^^THIS was my whole issue with how you treated the OP. She came on here looking for advice about having a puppy and working and she's told she shouldn't get a puppy and she was an animal abuser if she did and she should get a shelter dog. Who are all of you to tell her what she should do and call her an animal abuser if she crates a puppy? That makes me an animal abuser then because I did it. I guess someone should call AC and have Flash the poor abused dog taken away. The forum becomes worthless if new people join for advice and are driven away because they don't 100% agree with everything the clique tells them to do. Get a life and leave other's alone if you can't offer friendly advice.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I went back and read the whole thread and couldn't find any outwardly rude posts (except the one Crantatic mentioned). Many were very honest about it not being ideal that a puppy be crated 8 hours a day at 8 weeks, etc., but I didn't see anything horribly rude. In fact, I have been told worse on this forum (I was given a virtual slap in the face by Cracker...but I needed to it open my eyes to the situation more.)

The bottom line is this--I don't think anyone inteneded to offend the OP...just clarify myths about all shelter dogs (sterotyping is a bad thing.) I never intended to convince the OP to get a shelter dog. The reality is that an 8 week old puppy _ideally _should not be left alone for 8 hours. Heck, my 11 month old puppy still can't be left for 8 hours.

Good things came out of this, though--the OP realized that her situation wasn't ideal and is getting someone to watch the pup during the day. We have suggested she have a plan B. Your idea about a bigger crate is awesome, I think...in fact, Hubby and I are considering giving it a shot for Gracie since she still has to be crated.

No one intended to drive anyone off--and the thread went off topic a bit with the shelter/breeder dog debate. But, again, I couldn't find anything overly mean...very honest, no words minced, maybe, but nothing outright horrible. 

Maybe I am wrong.

I have gotten very sound advice on this forum numerous times...and some of it was advice I didn't want to hear, but I needed to. Sometimes tone is odd online, too...maybe it is read differently that it was intended.

I normally stay out of debates like this, but I have been around long enough to know that the majority of the people who posted in this thread meant well...at least I read it that way.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

The person who made the "animal abuser" post was, as I mentioned, a newbie with four posts to their name. If there is a clique here, that person is certainly not part of it. In fact, I posted right after that person to make sure History_chick knew that they weren't speaking for all of us. It's unfair to lump us in with that poster and act like we were all calling her a snob and an animal abuser. Several of us tried to be nice and helpful.

But yeah, if a new poster can't handle a bit of mild criticism -- and the crit here _was_ mild -- then what can we do? I guess the forum's style is just not going to work for everyone.


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## FlashTheRottwuggle (Dec 28, 2009)

My final post on this thread...

I have been here for over a year and read much more than I post. I know going into a thread entitled "Oh boy my dog is going to have puppies!" that all hell is going to break loose. However I have never felt any other thread I have read seem so negative as this thread did. The OP won't be back. I've been conversing with her in PM. I really can't blame her.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Wow, really? I'm genuinely surprised that you feel that way about this thread. I have seen a number of threads go very much downhill, with many people resorting to name calling and people getting banned from the forums. Aside from that newbie's one rude post, this one just seems so tame! Of course, if the OP feels this is the wrong sort of community for her, I hope she finds the help she seeks elsewhere.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

What I find interesting is that when I wrote about getting a puppy and building the puppy palace and the rest no one jumped down my throat for going to work and being at work for 10 hours a day. Yet.. here is someone getting a puppy and she was jumped on for the exact same thing. My job is 34 miles one way from my house and I leave at 6 and get home at 4.. and I managed to make it work. No one slammed me for that. Was it because I post here a lot and it seems I am "known?" 

I have been occasionally slammed by a random poster about my long work day and crating.. a situation I am not in love with and the reason I now have two out door kennels (and plans for a better set up next spring).. but here was someone with a shorter day and a back up plan.. and she was still vilified. 

Of course the shelter dog issue then came in and while I have had wonderful mixed breed shelter dogs in my past, I have GSD's now. Before I got Atka I too looked at rescues.. and the issues and costs far out weighed my willingness to take them on. As the OP said.. she tried to do rescue and they had high prices and the dog she was interested in had medical issues. While someone may be willing to take that on, she was not.. at least not for that price. 

Then there were the rescue's requirements.. and the rejection because I was single (never mind I owned a house and had a fenced area) and had to go to work.. and the prices were eyebrow raising. I had wonderful references (as one person said, "Don't they realize that a dog going to your house has hit the dog LOTTO???"). Still rejected. And I had not even SEEN a dog!!!! Due to the high numbers in rescue the ONLY breed I could have EASILY and INEXPENSIVELY adopted was a Pitbull or Pitbull mix... and I was in the market for a German Shepherd. 

I am not knocking the rescues or their desire to make sure the dogs adopted do not end up back on the street... and it is THEIR dog and THEIR policy and that is fine. It just did not work for me and ultimately I got Atka from a good breeder.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah I guess I kind of got offended with the whole down putting of shelter dogs & addressed it because I have a shelter dog & have had my share of rescues/shelters in the past & they are wonderful dogs. Rescues & shelters have such a bad time getting adopted as it is you see, but I didn't call anyone names or anything like that I left the issue of where the pup was to stay short term because it had been worked out, I have a funny feeling that that one post by that one newbie is what set everything going downhill for the OP IMO.

I'm sorry she was driven off but perhaps she was a little.. thin skinned for the kind of unbiased, blunt but friendly brand of advice this forum has to offer? I mean every post I saw started with things like (loosely quoted) 'im going to be blunt' & 'not to come off as harsh but...' nothing rude there! Oh well. Only takes one troll sticking their finger in the pie to ruin dessert (in reference to that one newbies attackingly rude post early in the forum)!


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