# 4-year old dog and new Pup



## Monkee72 (Dec 20, 2011)

!! HELP !! I know this is a common occurrence, so I won't bore you all with the details about how the initial meeting went with our 4-year old Staffordshire Terrier and our 10 week old German Shepherd, except that I did trust our "Staffy" too much or should I say I just didn't really know all of the signs to watch for before he put his mouth around the puppies neck. No harm was done, except to me now fearing that they will always have issues. It's been about 3 weeks now and we give them equal time in our living room, just not together. They have been near each other about 3-4 times, with no further incidents, but I am so leary now, that I think I'm just way more on guard now, and quell something that may not even be happening. So here's my question...I've read numerous posts and seen 100 different answers but recently, I'm finding alot that say let them in the room together and what happens. happens. They'll work it out and it'll all be over and decided. I just don't want to experience the two in such a negative state-of-mind again, though. I don't want the pup to grow up aggressive because of these events. What would you recommend? Let them hang out together? Thanks for any help!!


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Has the staffy ever had any problems getting along with other dogs? Adult dogs know the difference between puppies and dogs, and adjust the level of their play accordingly (well-mannered dogs do, at least).

How did puppy react when staffy "put his mouth around" his neck? If he was frightened or intimidated, tucked his tail or cried out for help, did the staffy react appropriately?


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## Monkee72 (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks for your quick response!  Well, "Kae"(our staffy) has always been good with other animals. Other dogs, cats (which we brought in 2 since he was here) etc. He had a run in with our neighbor's Akita, which broke through their fence and went after Kae, but then again, Kae was in his own backyard and was only protecting himself. He has been to obedience school, when he was just a puppy and is an extremely well behaved dog. That's why I think this has me so beside myself.
When the incident with the puppy occurred, the puppy yelped and acted afraid. Therefore, I immediately terminated the introduction and have since tightly monitored the time they have together. Which I hope isn't promoting negative behaviors to be instilled in either one of them. It's just that I think I never would have seen Kae doing such a thing therefore, I feel I may be acting TOO over-protective. I just want to see it work out, for ALL of us!


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## Monkee72 (Dec 20, 2011)

Sorry, to respond to your inquiry about if Kae reacted appropriately. I _know_ you're not supposed to reach into the middle of an altercation, but I did and was easily able to remove Kae's mouth from around the puppy's neck. Therefore, I'm thinking, if Kae _wanted_ to inflict serious damage to the puppy, he would have and not allowed me to do such a thing.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

I think you're right that Kae could have done some damage had that been his intent. It's generally not a good idea to get your hand in between two fighting dogs -- once their intensity level gets elevated, even the best dog might end up biting you before he realizes what he's done. He must not have been too intense. I would have intervened, too -- it's good for the pup to know you have his back. It's also a good idea to make sure each encounter ends on a positive note, if that's at all possible.

I'd be getting 'em as much face time together as possible if I were you, but closely supervised. Don't "just let them work it out." It's ok for Kae to reprimand his little brother, when he needs it, but you want 'em to hold the intensity level down. That's how I approach it.


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## libbenstein (Aug 23, 2010)

i am by no means an expert but i will echo that dogs in general have puppy restraint. puppies learn "approved" behavior from older dogs and most older dogs will correct a puppy "gently". we have 2 similarly sized dogs and when we brought the second one home (he was removed from his mom too early so did not know any dog rules) the older dog helped the new baby learn what was tolerated. it took me a while to learn that there was not a fight brewing but that it is just MR teaching Max the ins and outs of being a dog, and some who is in charge stuff. they still play rough, or at least what sounds rough (the louder it is the more play it is in my house). just last night MR and Max were wrestling and playing and Max "banged" his head on the coffee table and MR immediately started checking him out.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm confused by some ways that things were stated.
1. Has Kae been taught Bite Inhibition ?
2. Has he mouthed other animals? This kind of play is very common with Staffys.
3. Very Important - What did Kae do (not you) when the GSD cried - back-off, stay still, or escalate?
4. You cannot easily stop a Staffy that wants to draw blood or worse, they are too quick... I think it was play, but the pup was scared.
5. So I agree with libbenstein ... let them play, separate them when the pup gets scared, then immediately let them start playing again.


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## Monkee72 (Dec 20, 2011)

Hank,

1. I would say that Kae has always been good with bite inhibition. He's good with everyone, animals included, except for the altercation with the Akita, but, I can't fault him there.
2. As for mouthing, I've never seen him do that before.
3. Kae's response to the puppy's cry, he seemed to just stand there with his mouth around his neck. Kae didn't flail his head back and forth or anything, he just stood there. There actually was a small scrape/poke on the underside of the puppy's neck. Nothing that needed vet attention, but the skin was still broken.

I think today, we're going to try the park thing again, both leashed, but let them get some play time with treats in, try the positive reinforcement thing again.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I have a staffybull and an amstaff and just added a new pup to the household. I don't let the adults play with the pup. They tackle and body check and are just too rough. Instead, I have a playpen in my livingroom. One dog is in the playpen, another dog is on a long down/stay on the couch, and the third dog is loose and screwing around. I rotate them all. This way, they are always watching each other and are together, but the pup is safe. I also walk all three together on leash. We walk daily. The pup gets lots of time around the older dogs, but there's no real chance for things to go wrong.

While many dogs do show restraint around puppies, some do not. There are plenty of adult dogs that hate puppies. Bad experiences early on can shape a pup. Keep your pup safe and feeling secure.

And anyone who tells you to leave the room and let the dogs work it out (without personal, first-hand knowledge of the dogs involved) is a moron. There are some dogs that this will work for, but there are plenty of others that will fight til they die. 

Move slowly. Keep the dogs in view of each other but be in complete control of the interactions and take it slowly. It may all work out. It may not. Just take your time and be smart about it.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Monkee72 said:


> ...
> 3. Kae's response to the puppy's cry, he seemed to just stand there with his mouth around his neck. Kae didn't flail his head back and forth or anything, he just stood there. There actually was a small scrape/poke on the underside of the puppy's neck. Nothing that needed vet attention, but the skin was still broken.
> 
> I think today, we're going to try the park thing again, both leashed, but let them get some play time with treats in, try the positive reinforcement thing again.


I'd take that as encouraging. You'll do fine with a cautious approach. Keep in mind that if you are nervous, the dogs will know but they won't know why. Each might assume that you aren't in control of the other, it will affect their relationship.

My puppy is now over 75 pounds at 7 months, and his big brother the westie made him yelp a couple times yesterday.

Had a big yella hound (mature dog, steady as a rock) when we brought the westie on board. The terrier's play gets pretty intense sometimes, he bloodied Dusty's lip more than once, but Dusty never waivered. One time Dusty got ahold of Scout's head, I mean gripped it ear to ear and just held on while Scout's intensity played itself out. Scout got a little cut on one eyelid. He was grown at the time and Dusty was pretty old by then.


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