# Getting a second dog...



## Futile (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi all,

I am really interested in getting a second mini schnauzer. I already have one, his name is Smoky, and he is nearly 3 years old. We decided to have him fixed when he was about a year old. He's a pretty good little guy and is smart as a wip! Training did not take long and he has learned several commands - although he can be quite stubborn at times. 

What I am worried about is whether the two dogs will get along. Smoky has been socialized with other dogs and people - never an incident of biting or aggressive behaviour (aside from when people try to handle him incorrectly or make really fast movements...stuff that most dogs would react to). If I get the second mini and have him fixed, will this lessen the chances of aggression between the two males? My vet told me that having him fixed will help reduce aggression and natural tendencies to mark territory...etc. Is this accurate in this particular breed?

I like to think of myself as a responsible pet owner and I would love to hear from others on what I should be doing to ensure the best possible transition for the new pup, Smoky, and of course my wife and I. I would hate to see the two dogs fighting or hurting each other. I plan on training the new pup so that both dogs will know several commands making it easier for my wife and I to teach them that we are a family...and they are below my wife and I...they can sort themselves out (but I hope Smoky will teach the younger pup how to be a good dog!).

Thanks to any and all replies!


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## RubesMom (May 1, 2007)

I don't know about this particular breed, but generally, yes, having him fixed will reduce some aggression; however, having 2 males means that there could be some issues anyway. I think if you get the second dog as a puppy and train him and supervise the interaction between the two, you'll be okay. Just as long as you don't expect to toss another dog into the house and everything will work itself out on its own, which from your post I can see that you realize it is not that easy. I am sort of going through the same thing myself (how to introduce a new dog to an old dog), but I adopted an older female dog to bring into my home with my younger male dog. So far so good, but I keep them separated when I am not around. A good rule of thumb would be to have one or both crated separately when you are unable to supervise. A pain in the butt, maybe, but then you won't have to worry about what is going on between the two when you can't intervene.


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## Futile (Jan 11, 2010)

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I plan to crate the pup and keep them together in my bedroom when I am not at home or unable to watch them carefully. We crate trained the older dog, but as he matured and learned to be a good dog we stopped putting him in the crate. The older dog stays in my bedroom when my wife and I are not at home. He usually just sleeps on his bed. We are never gone for more than a few hours. 

I think proper training and showing the older dog that the new dog is now a part of the "pack" will help with integration for both dogs.

At least if the pup is crated while we are not at home, but still in the same room as the older dog, both dogs will have a chance to get to know each other in a safe way. 

I love the schnauzer breed! They are smart, playful, and very loving. A bit stubborn at times, but not to the point of causing trouble.

I'll be getting the new pup in a couple of days. I'll post back to let others know how everything is going....

Cheers!


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

We bought Loki was Gizmo was 2. Both are males. Gizmo was neutered and he totally ignored Loki for the first month or so we had him home. I have picture after picture of Loki looking at him and Gizmo looking the other way. Hilarious photos. We took Gizmo with us when we picked out Loki, so Gizmo smelled him and felt his energy, etc.

We crated Gizmo when he was a puppy, too. When he was old enough, he got the run of the little room downstairs. When we got Loki, he was crated and Gizmo was out. We never had any problems...serious ones, anyway. You can expect some scuffles as your current dogs tries to show the new puppy that he is the boss and the puppy is not. As long as you supervise, you should be okay. We have never had a serious battles and we have two males (and we are thinking of adding a third male to the house, but that is another story...)

I will tell you that it is stressful at first because you are out of the "puppy" phase with your current dog. For the first few weeks (or months) you will probably question your decision and swear it was the dumbest things ever, but when they start to get along and play it will all be worth it. 

Gizmo is now 9 and Loki is 7 and they get along great. We never looked back.

Good luck.


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## Tolak (Sep 11, 2008)

Kazimer was a year old when we got Gustav as an 8 week old pup. Both are male Australian Terriers, Kaz was neutered at 5 months, as was Gus. The best way to describe Kaz's reaction would be protective & patient, yet a bit stern. He kept a close eye on the little guy, played with him a lot, but would put him in his place when his puppy antics got a little out of line.

The new dog will learn from the existing one, both good things and bad. Housebreaking, crate training, and basic commands were half the work with Gus; he watched Kaz & picked up quick. He also figured out how to hop the foot tall decorative fence around the bushes much earlier, thanks Kaz!

Gus is still the instigator, Kaz will take his walking up & ear nibbling until it becomes ear yanking, then once again puts him in his place. While their mock battles may seem a bit fierce, it's all show. Growling, snarling, teeth showing, wresting around; their mouths never close down on each other during this. Best way to describe it would be fencing with teeth, they do this upright, sitting, laying down, often tiring & napping together. Tell them to break it up & they stop, trot on over, and sit next to each other, looking at you for what is going on next. 

I had to work a bit on Kaz with bite inhibition when he was younger, it was never an issue with Gus, he has such a soft mouth. He can hang onto a toy like an alligator when he wants to, he refuses to use teeth on humans. 

Kaz is 2 1/2, Gus is 1 1/2. We recently had a female Aussie go from foster to family member, 9 year old gal who is quite a bit more laid back. The younger guys seem to know she's a bit older, and will involve her in some of their chasing play, which she could use being a bit overweight. They don't waylay her with flying tackles & such as they do to each other, but will vault over her on occasion, which she really seems to like.

Be ready to intervene if needed, the older dog sounds well adjusted & socalized, you will learn some things if you trust his judgement a little.


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## Futile (Jan 11, 2010)

Yes, I will be watching them very carefully. We will only allow them to be together when we are both free to watch them...otherwise we can easily put one in the room where I am and the other with my wife. 

It's going to be a lot of work, but we have been through it before. This time around we will learn from some of the mistakes we made with our first dog (in regards to training and socializing). It will be so much fun to have two schnauzers! We have a few friends at the same estate who have schnauzers. We had a meeting the other night and all went fairly well. The other two males have not been fixed, so there was a lot of humping...quite funny. My dog has been fixed, so he just watched and barked while the other two tried to "get it on." I have many pictures and will try and find time to post them later on this week.

Anyone else out there have two schnauzers?

Cheers!


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## Locke (Nov 3, 2008)

Is there a reason you don't want a female? Generally, female and male pairings are more compatible. 
I have tow males at home, both neutered, and the second male was introduced to our family (and 6 1/2 year old dog) when he was 2 1/2 years. They boys have not fought at all, just play fighting, and Mitch knows when he over steps his boundaries and does not retaliate. We were lucky that way, and I think the only reason it's working so well is because of Mitch's personality. 

If you really want another male, ask the breeder to pick a pup that will compliment your current dog's personality. I don't think you should have many problems with two neutered males, as long as the younger is respectful of the elder, or the elder just doesn't care.


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## Futile (Jan 11, 2010)

Locke said:


> Is there a reason you don't want a female? Generally, female and male pairings are more compatible.
> I have tow males at home, both neutered, and the second male was introduced to our family (and 6 1/2 year old dog) when he was 2 1/2 years. They boys have not fought at all, just play fighting, and Mitch knows when he over steps his boundaries and does not retaliate. We were lucky that way, and I think the only reason it's working so well is because of Mitch's personality.
> 
> If you really want another male, ask the breeder to pick a pup that will compliment your current dog's personality. I don't think you should have many problems with two neutered males, as long as the younger is respectful of the elder, or the elder just doesn't care.


I didn't have a choice because we got the last puppy. Here in China it is hard to trust people and they don't have breeders like we do back in the Western world. We are getting the puppy from one of my wife's friends. In China I would not want to buy a puppy from a pet store and breeders do not exist...or if they do it is solely for the profit of selling the pups. The puppy is in good health and we were able to have a look at the parents...both male and female are in good condition and the vet has checked them out. I wish we had more choices here in China, but the simple fact is we don't. And actually we are not paying anything...this puppy is for free. 

One thing I noticed though, the left ear does not drop down normally. The vet said it might just take some time, but if it doesn't drop normally we can opt for surgery to correct the problem. Anyone ever have experience with this?


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## Locke (Nov 3, 2008)

You can try taping the ear before looking into surgery. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with surgery unless the ear was bothering the dog or affecting its health in some way. Cosmetic surgery is best left for humans. I'm not sure how to go about taping the ear properly, but it's fairly common practise in schnauzers and breeds like collies and dobermans. Maybe some veteran schnauzer people can help out with that.


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Sounds like you have some good plans. One other thing that I would like to point out is to not treat one dog any better than the other. Treat them as equals. If you tend to favor the current dog over the new dog, other issues can arise from that as well. I have had several dogs, and rehomed 2 to excellent homes, and have not had any issues. I don't favor any one more than the other. I have currently just brought a new male into the pack, and he's doing awsome with my 2 girls. And Chloe has really taken to him as well, they just love playing hard at times and have a great time. It's so fun to watch. But Chloe is also the oldest as well, and the wisest, and all her good vibes seem to rub off on any new dogs we take in.


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## Futile (Jan 11, 2010)

Lonewolfblue said:


> Sounds like you have some good plans. One other thing that I would like to point out is to not treat one dog any better than the other. Treat them as equals. If you tend to favor the current dog over the new dog, other issues can arise from that as well. I have had several dogs, and rehomed 2 to excellent homes, and have not had any issues. I don't favor any one more than the other. I have currently just brought a new male into the pack, and he's doing awsome with my 2 girls. And Chloe has really taken to him as well, they just love playing hard at times and have a great time. It's so fun to watch. But Chloe is also the oldest as well, and the wisest, and all her good vibes seem to rub off on any new dogs we take in.


Yeah, I know. I will do my best to treat them as equals. No doubt, I will love them both the same. Of course, my older dog will always have a special place in my heart...as he went through a lot when he was a puppy (Parvo, getting Neutered, and Cancer - although the cancer was benign). I love the new puppy, too. He is very cute! 

I've been doing a lot of training with my older dog. Well, brushing up on what he already knows. He's doing pretty good! I have learned a lot and will try my best to teach the new pup all the things he needs to know for him to be a happy member of the family.

Consequently, my older dog likes to bark when he hears someone walking past our door (we live in a condo). I read an article on the internet about using a water spray bottle to spray a small amount in his face when he barks. I prefer this to anything physical...and you know what? It really works! He is 3 years old but he is still a super fast learner! 

Schnauzers are great dogs and very intelligent. I highly recommend them...they give a ton of love...are quick to learn and always want to please! 

Cheers!


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Futile said:


> Consequently, my older dog likes to bark when he hears someone walking past our door (we live in a condo). I read an article on the internet about using a water spray bottle to spray a small amount in his face when he barks. I prefer this to anything physical...and you know what? It really works! He is 3 years old but he is still a super fast learner!


I'm not a huge fan of spraying myself, but do know many that do it. I prefer to work with the dog myself, and really praise and treat them if they sit quietly when someone walks past my fence. Or even if they walk up to the fence quietly to be petted, even though most everyone just keeps walking. The only person that stops almost every time is one of my neighbors just up the street a couple houses. But if they bark, no treats or rewards.


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## Train-Your-Dog (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm sure your two dogs will get along fine. Take him out to a park one day and see how he plays with other dogs. If any aggression is shown - I would be very careful. There are ways to train your dogs to not be aggressive, though this doesn'nt seem like a problem for him. I would go ahead and get a second dog, but experiment on him first =)


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## Futile (Jan 11, 2010)

Train-Your-Dog said:


> I'm sure your two dogs will get along fine. Take him out to a park one day and see how he plays with other dogs. If any aggression is shown - I would be very careful. There are ways to train your dogs to not be aggressive, though this doesn'nt seem like a problem for him. I would go ahead and get a second dog, but experiment on him first =)


Good advice. I have already taken him to places where there are other dogs. He hasn't shown much aggression...mostly over excitement. He often stays at my mother-in-laws place when my wife and I travel...they have a dog and he gets on with her fine. I think more sociallizing is what he needs...but I will train the pup and retrain the older dog to ensure they get on well...


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Futile said:


> One thing I noticed though, the left ear does not drop down normally. The vet said it might just take some time, but if it doesn't drop normally we can opt for surgery to correct the problem. Anyone ever have experience with this?


I am a some what new schnauzer owner myself, have a standard with natural ears. I have never heard anyone talk of a surgery to correct the ear so that it drops better. So I have to wonder if there is some sort of mis-translation? Or is your vet English? I personally would never do a surgery to make my dogs ears drop perfectly. Her ears are not show ring perfect, but I love her to pieces anyway. I prefer the natural ears so that I wouldn't have to put her through the surgery for the crop ears.

having spent a couple of weeks in China myself I can understand that this is your only chance for a pup. But I have to wonder if waiting for a female might be better??? Seeing as how your male already gets along with your MIL's female dog. But it could work out fine as well.

The Standard Schnauzer I would never call stubborn, (I suppose that a mini could be different) they are smart and driven and focused. And sometimes all that mental energy is directed at something other that you (ie a squirrel or a cat). But they are never stubborn. You do have to work harder, as an owner, to find a way to get them to focus on you. I find that positive training really really works well. Any sort of negative reinforcement will turn them off and they will tune you out......


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## Futile (Jan 11, 2010)

NRB said:


> I am a some what new schnauzer owner myself, have a standard with natural ears. I have never heard anyone talk of a surgery to correct the ear so that it drops better. So I have to wonder if there is some sort of mis-translation? Or is your vet English? I personally would never do a surgery to make my dogs ears drop perfectly. Her ears are not show ring perfect, but I love her to pieces anyway. I prefer the natural ears so that I wouldn't have to put her through the surgery for the crop ears.
> 
> having spent a couple of weeks in China myself I can understand that this is your only chance for a pup. But I have to wonder if waiting for a female might be better??? Seeing as how your male already gets along with your MIL's female dog. But it could work out fine as well.
> 
> The Standard Schnauzer I would never call stubborn, (I suppose that a mini could be different) they are smart and driven and focused. And sometimes all that mental energy is directed at something other that you (ie a squirrel or a cat). But they are never stubborn. You do have to work harder, as an owner, to find a way to get them to focus on you. I find that positive training really really works well. Any sort of negative reinforcement will turn them off and they will tune you out......


What you quoted me saying was what my vet told me. Actually, I don't intend on doing surgery. A lot of my friends who have miniature schnauzers have told me the ears will drop normally when the puppy gets a bit older. If not, I can tape them. I want the ears to look normal...nothing wrong with that...and taping is the best way to reduce discomfort for the dog...then again...if he really hates having them taped I will concede. 

I meant stubborn in a funny sort of way. Sure, schnauzers are very clever dogs, but minis (at least in my experience), can be quite free spirted. What you say about positivity is very important. 

Anyway, minis, standards, and giant schnauzers are different dogs...and then you have individual personalities...learning enviornments, owners...amount of training...etc...

In the past couple of days I have begun to train my new pup...he has caught on very quickly to sit and stay...I need to continue reinforcing what he has learned so that he will retain it. 

How long would you suggest training for a command like sit. One week? Should I train other commands at the same time or only focus on one of them?

Thanks!


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Hey Futile, I wasn't saying Minis and Standards are the same behavior wise , I was only offering my personal experience. Now the ears, well they are more similar. You can tape them and they will turn out well. Or you can glue them. Or you can do what I did and tape them intermittently for months and STILL have wonky ears. Lol. No don't do that, was kidding. 

I personally never had a dog younger than 3 1/2 months. If your puppy is 8 weeks old then I would expect your situation would be different than mine. With my 3 1/2 mo pup I would train other commands during the same day... but not during the same training session... I sprinkle training sessions throughout the day. Going out the door to go pee outside? Ask for the sit before opening the door..... Hanging out by the laundry machine? Work on the stay. Feeding time? ask for the sit before putting the food bowl down and etc. Basicly every interaction with the dog is training.

I'm not sure what you are asking When you ask how long to train for the sit? They learn in a certain context and then when you change the context (different location, different distractions) they have to learn how to obey the command in that new context. or am I stating the obvious and not answering your question? So yes, in a week (or in 1 day) you can get the sit in the kitchen, but not out in the middle of a dog park with dogs playing next to you.....



Futile said:


> How long would you suggest training for a command like sit. One week? Should I train other commands at the same time or only focus on one of them?
> 
> Thanks!


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