# Aargh! I trimmed my dog's toenail to the quick again!



## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

So my dog can be a bit of an anxious, fearful, neurotic basket case. I made the mistake of sending him to the groomers ONCE for a toenail trim then came back scared of the nail clipper thereafter. This was quite evident when I tried to trim his toenails a few weeks afterwards and he wasn't having it. I accidentally cut him to the quick when he jerked away at the last instant. If he wasn't already terrified of nail clippers to begin with, I just confirmed all of his suspicions. 

Since then, I've been working on counter-conditioning him to the nail clipper for a good part of the past year and we've finally gotten to the point where he'll let me trim one toenail per training session without too much stress. And then last night, I accidentally trimmed one toenail to the quick (by maybe about 1 mm). D'oh! I ended up having to chase him a bit and corner him to even apply the styptic powder. He was absolutely petrified 

Based on your experiences, how recoverable is this kind of a setback? Would you expect for him to take another year to be ok around the toenail clipper? Shorter? Longer? Should I give him a break from the toenail clipper or should I start back on the counter conditioning as soon as possible? Thoughts? Thanks!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Have you ever tried using a Dremel to grind the nails instead of clippers? Even though the Dremel makes noise and vibration, you can grind a little off at a time and if the dog yanks his foot away, it won't catch like clippers do.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I have quicked mine by accident a couple of times, too. Some dogs are dramatic about it, but its not like it is for us, sure it hurts, but it is no big deal. When I clip nails, I try to get as close to the quick as I possibly can without actually quicking. For a dog like this I'd have a leash on him so he couldnt run and hide, dont make a big deal out of it, if you are scared and anxious to begin with, he will be, too. 

I love counter conditioning, but sometimes there are things that the dog just flat doesnt like, but have to be done, like nail trimming.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

The dremel is just plain easier on both the human and the dog. I can quick with it and it hurts if it gets hot and it will tangle [and stall rather than pull hair] in long hair and Bucky will try to lick the moving drum but there isn't that moment of decision and decisive action that is wrong every so often and causes so much anxiety on both sides. When I quicked Max neither of us had to startle, it was a relaxed oops too short guess I need to work on a different nail now moment.

I'd go right back and work through counterconditioning but in a single session for a single nail ending up with an air snap rather than on his nail. I'd go back and work on nails daily as well. Try to get one nail clipped per session but handle them all.

To see if investing in a dremel might be better try a nail file on his nails. You won't get a whole lot off but he will get used to you handling his feet.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

I have quicked my fearful girl more times than I would like, but don't make a big deal of it. Put some powder on it and give the dog a jackpot of treats and don't mess with the toes for a day or two. Then go right back to counter conditioning. In my opinion the best way to do it is to only feed them their kibble anytime you are messing with the paws, squeezing, tapping the nails with clippers, flipping the nails, holding the nails for x amount of time, etc. The dog gets to eat their meal only during paw handling sessions OR you use a special treat/food for paw handling sessions only.

Start the process where you think he is comfortable whether it's seeing the clippers or having his nails tapped by clippers then slowly build duration or push a little closer towards the nails being clipped.


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## MysticRealm (May 30, 2007)

How was he for getting his nails trimmed before you brought him to the groomer?


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## New Day Alert Dog (Feb 5, 2016)

My dog is not a fan of nail trims either! We are slowly working on counter-conditioning. I have a dremel and I think you all have inspired me to give it a try.


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## Margot49 (Oct 2, 2015)

I have used clippers and the Dremel and much prefer the Dremel. I have always done my own dog's nails from Yorkies to Greyhounds. I now have a Chi mix I rescued and she will have none of it!! Have trued and trued to condition her to getting her nails done. Nope! Two friends come over and help and she has to be muzzled. Honestly!!


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Margot49 said:


> I have used clippers and the Dremel and much prefer the Dremel. I have always done my own dog's nails from Yorkies to Greyhounds. I now have a Chi mix I rescued and she will have none of it!! Have trued and trued to condition her to getting her nails done. Nope! Two friends come over and help and she has to be muzzled. Honestly!!


Sounds like the dog needs time to trust you. I have a 15 yr old female that took me 2 yrs to train her not to panic when trimming her nails. She used to bite, snap, and flee. This week I used a dremel on her and was truly amazed because I never would have thought this day would ever be real. Don't give up. The only training I ever do with this dog is nail stuff because nothing else matters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x8NcWqDxUs


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## Wet Beards (Jan 25, 2015)

My one girl has black nails and black quick. Makes it hard to see where to clip. 
Before clipping, I use a white pencil crayon to mark lines safely below the quick. 

For my younger girl, who can't sit still, I clip just the tip and then use sandpaper
to file down.


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## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks for everyone's suggestion about using a dremel. I had totally forgotten about it as an option! It definitely sounds the least traumatic. I had tried a dremel a long time ago when I first got him, but the noise makes him run away scared. But then again, he was also the same puppy that ran halfway across the room from me every time I sneezed. I will start counter-conditioning him to the dremel and hopefully we'll have less trauma and less drama! 



MysticRealm said:


> How was he for getting his nails trimmed before you brought him to the groomer?


He wasn't great. I could tell he was nervous but he did put up with it. It really was my fault for asking the groomers to do his nails in the first place, since I already had an inkling that he may not like it, but I thought I'd "save time". If I were doing it myself, I'm not under any pressure to get all of his toenails done under a certain amount of time. If he got too stressed, we could take a break and come back to it later. The groomers probably didn't have that luxury and I suspect that they probably just tried to restrain him, resulting in a traumatic experience. :/



Wet Beards said:


> Before clipping, I use a white pencil crayon to mark lines safely below the quick.


Mine has black quick and nails as well. Is there a way that you judge where the quick ends? I thought I was safely below it this last time, judging from the length of the other adjacent toes, but evidently I was a bit off.


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## MysticRealm (May 30, 2007)

Look INSIDE the nail and take little bits at a time.








This is RIGHT at the quick. Cut anymore and it will bleed. (dark black gummy looking circle in center of nail)









This is the start of seeing the quick, cut a bit more and you'd end up with 1st pic. You can stop here if you are nervous as it doesn't take much to go from this nail to accidentally too far.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

griffin, can you show a pic of your dog's nails? Mystic, those are some great pictures!!!


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Take note that some dogs are really sensitive in the tissue before the quick. If your dog is one of them, I suggest you get it to the greyish area and then dremel the rest.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Right nail - right on quickie.
Left nail - not quite there yet, but close.
The dog was sensitive so I didn't get right on the quick and I just hand filed the edges.


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## Margot49 (Oct 2, 2015)

LOL! I have had her since she was 4 months old and she is 4 now!! I even got a smaller Dremmel that isn't as loud. Nope. Trust me, I have had many dogs over the years and she is the absolute worst. All I have to do is touch her foot or a nail with my finger and she has a screaming fit!! She does do tricks and will shake left and shake right. She even thinks she is getting nails trimmed and the drama is on! The "only" possible thing I suspect may have happened was at the Shelter. When I picked her up, her nails were very short, very short. If they cut them that short when she was awake, that hurt like hell. I would prefer to think they cut them when she was under for her spay, but who knows. Add to that she is a Chi mix.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Margot49 said:


> LOL! I have had her since she was 4 months old and she is 4 now!! I even got a smaller Dremmel that isn't as loud. Nope. Trust me, I have had many dogs over the years and she is the absolute worst. All I have to do is touch her foot or a nail with my finger and she has a screaming fit!! She does do tricks and will shake left and shake right. She even thinks she is getting nails trimmed and the drama is on! The "only" possible thing I suspect may have happened was at the Shelter. When I picked her up, her nails were very short, very short. If they cut them that short when she was awake, that hurt like hell. I would prefer to think they cut them when she was under for her spay, but who knows. Add to that she is a Chi mix.


Hopefully you find a way to condition her. Don't give up.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Great Pictures!!!

Couple of suggestions:
1. If you trim at an angle, I think you hit blood first, then the nerve a 'millimeter' later.
2. Look at a picture of the bottom of a horse hoof (on Google) - Nip the tip of the nail, just as you would do a hoof, staying away from the middle.
3. Give the dog a tiny dime-sized treat before clipping each nail, and after each nail. He may not like it, but may accept the pain and fear to get the treat.
4. Yes, it hurts to clip the nail and bleed a lot. But it is more a surprise, than life-threatening. My dog doesn't like it either (black nails), so I warn him just before I clip. He doesn't like it but seems to accept it. Hey, we talk about positive training ... I may be using learned helplessness to force my dog to accept clippers under the toe nails... And, he's had to endure this torture for 15 years.
5. You might consider one nail trim or one foot trim per day?


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## Margot49 (Oct 2, 2015)

Oh, I don't give up but may have met my match with this one! My Vet just laughs s he knows I have always groomed my own dogs. Really, the Greyhounds were easier then this little terror.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I just finally got a dremel after 3 years of doing this with nug and holy crap it is so amazing. Despite all my counter conditioning and going slow ect he has weirdly long quicks and I could never go more than a few sessions without Quicking him. A week into the dremel and his nails are almost short enough to not hit the floor. Well worth the purchase.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I cant do a dremmel purchase right now  too much going on, I do have a guillotine trimmer and I am pretty skilled with that, some of Lincoln's nails are black, and he is really good about telling me when I am too far up the nail. I like to get it as close to the quick as possible without actually having blood coming out. Now thanks to my diligence, I no longer hear Lincoln's nails on the floor, he just pads quietly around like a cat


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## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

Hector4 said:


> griffin, can you show a pic of your dog's nails? Mystic, those are some great pictures!!!


Sorry for the delay. It seems that if I hold anything suspicious or novel looking around my dog's paw he tries to run away so I had to convince him that my phone wasn't going chop off his foot. Not the best shot, but good enough, I think.










Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this is at the "grey oval" stage. I'd be hesitant to keep trimming that toenail. He still clicks across the hardwood though. But I'd much rather put up with toenail clicking than blood drops!


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I take off the tip at that point, going around the quick. The tip is the hardest part of the nail so taking it off helps wear down the soft part so the quick can recede. I only grind straight across if there is a hollow to the nail as my dogs' nails are trimmed enough that the quick is close to the surface.

And I couldn't do just the tip without my dremel, it's nerve wracking!


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

griffinflames said:


> Sorry for the delay. It seems that if I hold anything suspicious or novel looking around my dog's paw he tries to run away so I had to convince him that my phone wasn't going chop off his foot. Not the best shot, but good enough, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are pretty close. You can see the grey area and you can see how the nail that's left is the very thick part which is another indicator of the quick chamber. You can whittle some of the roof away, but it's hard with clippers sometimes and much easier with a grinder.


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## Margot49 (Oct 2, 2015)

When you can see the quick, stop. If you keep them trimmed, the quick should start to recede back.


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## griffinflames (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks for the tips everyone! I'm going to start working with him on the Dremel and see if I can shave that roof off. Hopefully that will help keep his nails appropriately trimmed and get his quick to recede a bit more.


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## Margot49 (Oct 2, 2015)

If it is too hard to use the Dremmel, use a course file to just smooth and shape


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