# Declawing dogs???



## Echo's mom (Mar 3, 2009)

I just ran across something in the classifieds of my local paper: 

3 mo. old female Rottweiler. Has shots, tail docked & *declawed*.

Ummm I've heard of declawing cats, but dogs??? Sounds so cruel. Is this common?


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## w8ing4rain (Sep 4, 2008)

Hopefully just poor spelling. Probably meant to say dewclaw.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

Actually I have read about people de-clawing their dogs also.. Seems pretty unnecessary.. something someone would probably only do if they were too lazy to keep the dogs nails trimmed.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I think they probably meant her dewclaws were removed.


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## Echo's mom (Mar 3, 2009)

I hope they didn't mean more than that. I'm actually thinking about calling the number and asking.


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## Shaggydog (Mar 4, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> I think they probably meant her dewclaws were removed.


What's a dewclaw?


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## w8ing4rain (Sep 4, 2008)

A dewclaw is a little toe on the back of the dogs leg. Nanuq is the only dog I've ever had that still has them. They are a pain. She hates to have the nails on them trimmed and they tend to catch on things. They are frequently removed when puppies are only a few days old. The dog in the add probably had them removed.


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

Shaggydog said:


> What's a dewclaw?


It's an atavistic characteristic in a dog. It's a claw that's not needed.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

w8ing4rain said:


> A dewclaw is a little toe on the back of the dogs leg. Nanuq is the only dog I've ever had that still has them. They are a pain. She hates to have the nails on them trimmed and they tend to catch on things. They are frequently removed when puppies are only a few days old. The dog in the add probably had them removed.



actually, it is on the _inside_ of the leg, not the back....the claw that is just a ways up from the foot on the inside is kinda like your thumb, but on a dog it doesn't really serve a purpose...altho, in Border Collies, they tend to "use" it, per se...it helps w/ their balance in turns and such....some dogs have them on the rear legs as well and these are generally more of a problem than the ones on the front....


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

This is a picture I just took of Jet's paw (my friends aussie) He was a rescue, and whoever bred him docked his tail (probably at home with a chisel and hammer because it's really badly done) but never took off his dewclaws.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

3 of my dogs still have dewclaws, but it's hard to see in pictures because of their feathering. The ones that have them actually do use them quite a bit.


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## spugs (May 4, 2009)

do all dogs have them? im sure mine doesnt and the person i got him from would have mentioned it if theyed been removed!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

spugs said:


> do all dogs have them? im sure mine doesnt and the person i got him from would have mentioned it if theyed been removed!


From what I understand, almost all dogs have front dewclaws when they're born. Some have back dewclaws too and certain breeds have multiple dewclaws. It's pretty much routine to get them removed when the pups are very young. I've never had a breeder really tell me specifically they removed them. Some breeds the dewclaws are required to be kept. In paps it's acceptable either way and my breeder did not remove dewclaws up until her last litter which is why 3 of our paps have them and one doesn't.

Here's some good reference pics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewclaws


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## spugs (May 4, 2009)

had a look and not a dew claw in sight, no scaring or marking either so it doesnt look like theyve been removed. but who knows


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

I'm quite sure they are referring to just the dewclaws being removed. Personally, I prefer it, but either way it's not a huge deal.

You can't see any evidence of a dew claw removal on the pups that had them removed. Ther'es just nothing there.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Unless the vet did a really hack job you probably won't see any scaring. Dewclaws are removed when pups are 0-5 days old. Typically breeders don't tell their puppy buyers that the dewclaws have been removed. It's usually assumed they were or not noticed/known about in the first place.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

like mentioned, when removed as pups there will should be no tell tale signs...according to my vet when asked once, all dogs have the front (unless a defect) but not all have the rear and some may have 2-3 on the rear (i think Pyrenees are one that are required to have 2 rear dews)


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

spugs said:


> had a look and not a dew claw in sight, no scaring or marking either so it doesnt look like theyve been removed. but who knows


My puppy Hawkeye had his dewclaws removed there is no mark no scar, and his breeder never told me she removed them, but I know they were removed because my breed is always born with front dewclaws and it's just normal procedure to get them removed, no big deal.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Echo's mom said:


> I just ran across something in the classifieds of my local paper:
> 
> 3 mo. old female Rottweiler. Has shots, tail docked & *declawed*.
> 
> Ummm I've heard of declawing cats, but dogs??? Sounds so cruel. Is this common?


I too would assume this means dewclaws are removed but who knows. Is this a person selling a dog or trying to re home a pet they adopted? I would like to think that someone that breeds for profit would at least know the proper terminology but then..... so many do not. 

I am hoping it is not a breeder as shots, tails and dewclaws is minimal and nothing to brag about. If you are looking for a Rottie, I would NOT recommend the classified section of your local paper. Not a good route to go for a breed with an already tarnished reputation.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Inga said:


> I too would assume this means dewclaws are removed but who knows. Is this a person selling a dog or trying to re home a pet they adopted? I would like to think that someone that breeds for profit would at least know the proper terminology but then..... so many do not.
> 
> I am hoping it is not a breeder as shots, tails and dewclaws is minimal and nothing to brag about. If you are looking for a Rottie, I would recommend the classified section of your local paper. Not a good route to go for a breed with an already tarnished reputation.


Inga, shouldn't that be a _wouldn't_ not a _would_ recommend?

as for removing them...like i said, removing them on a Border doesn't generally work well for them....i've seen some that had theirs removed and they seem to have a hard time "holding" the ground.....i won't ever have mine removed unless it becomes a med issues(i.e. they snag it and cause damage that it needs to be)


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

tirluc said:


> Inga, shouldn't that be a _wouldn't_ not a _would_ recommend?
> 
> as for removing them...like i said, removing them on a Border doesn't generally work well for them....i've seen some that had theirs removed and they seem to have a hard time "holding" the ground.....i won't ever have mine removed unless it becomes a med issues(i.e. they snag it and cause damage that it needs to be)


oops! Um, YEAH! I would NOT recommend getting a dog from the classifieds.  going back to fix that now.


Just curious how the Dewclaw helps "hold the ground?" I mean, I know Border Collies move differently then Rotties and are bred for a different purpose but... On a Rottie, the Dewclaw doesn't come in contact with the ground at all. It is just sort of there. No added benefit from a dewclaw, that I can see.


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## AkiraleShiba (Dec 9, 2007)

Akira uses his dewclaws to grip stuff like my arm or his bones.


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## StardustInVegas (Apr 11, 2009)

Intersting thread....

I've looked at my dog's paws. It is obvious that she has a dewclaw in the back (and one of them has TWO nails growing out of it!!). It is only attached by skin...no bones or anything like that. Her front paws has 5 claws, and all of them are attached by bones. Am I right to assume that the "thumbs" are NOT dewclaws? I thought dewclaws are just a pad and nail that is not attached by bone. 

What breeds specifically only has back dewclaws? That may help solve the mystery of my dog's breed.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

> Intersting thread....
> 
> I've looked at my dog's paws. It is obvious that she has a dewclaw in the back (and one of them has TWO nails growing out of it!!). It is only attached by skin...no bones or anything like that. Her front paws has 5 claws, and all of them are attached by bones. Am I right to assume that the "thumbs" are NOT dewclaws? I thought dewclaws are just a pad and nail that is not attached by bone.
> 
> What breeds specifically only has back dewclaws? That may help solve the mystery of my dog's breed.


Icelandic sheepdogs, great pyranese(sp?) are a couple that are required to have rear dewclaws.

also there are two types of dewclaws, the attached dewclaw and the detached dewclaw.

The detached dewclaw just kinda dangles there and has no bone in it thoughs are the most dangerous kind to the dog, and thoughs are the useless kind, the dog can not move the claw at all.

The attached kind are connected by a bone and some dogs can actualy use them for griping. They are less dangerous to the dog but can still get caught on things.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

StardustInVegas said:


> Intersting thread....
> 
> I've looked at my dog's paws. It is obvious that she has a dewclaw in the back (and one of them has TWO nails growing out of it!!). It is only attached by skin...no bones or anything like that. Her front paws has 5 claws, and all of them are attached by bones. Am I right to assume that the "thumbs" are NOT dewclaws? I thought dewclaws are just a pad and nail that is not attached by bone.
> 
> What breeds specifically only has back dewclaws? That may help solve the mystery of my dog's breed.


I'm pretty sure all breeds have front dews and none just have back dewclaws. My paps that have dewclaws still have very tight front dews. It is connected by bone and operates as a 'thumb'. They use them to hold onto chews and when they grip things all the time. Beau rips his occasionally (he's wild) but I still wish Nard had his.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

All three of my boys have front dewclaws, but my girl has had hers removed and she _does_ have scarring, two identical places where a dewclaw should be but no hair grows now. Since she's a rescue though I have no idea when or how they were done, and suspect that she came from a bad breeder at some point, so....one of my boys has back dews as well, they are very attached according to my vet and she wanted $350something to remove them, so we left them. As far as I know the others were born without back dews.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

I've heard that some breeds have 'attached' dewclaws, but most dogs have 'unattached' ones. Attached dews can be flexed like a normal toe to some degree, and a dog with one can use it like a thumb and grip things with it. Unattached dews are internally just barely hanging onto the leg and aren't mobile, therefore they're more easily torn off.


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## NalaBaby (Apr 28, 2009)

Both of my dogs have attached dew claws. Nala hasn't figured out how to use them yet, but Elvis uses them when he's chewing on a bone or toy.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

StardustInVegas said:


> Am I right to assume that the "thumbs" are NOT dewclaws? I thought dewclaws are just a pad and nail that is not attached by bone.


"Thumbs" ARE dewclaws. Some are attached and some aren't. But the dewclaw is what most people would refer to as a thumb. 

I'm sure the ad placer meant dewclaws removed, not actual full de-clawing (though I'm sure some people do it). About half the ads I see say "de-clawed", others say "dewclawed" and others say "dewclaws removed". I would like to hope that most vets would refuse to do an elective full de-claw on a dog, but they do de-claws on cats routinely (for no reason except owner preference) so who knows.

Of the dogs my family has owned: 
Willow, a BYB Lab. In the newspaper puppy ad, it said "dewclaws removed". I assume the "breeder" did it himself. Large scars, very noticable if you were looking.
Penny, a dumped mutt. Still has dewclaws (seem to be closely attached), uses them extensively.
Toby, a shelter mutt. Still has dewclaws (attached, not as closely as Penny and Shug), also uses them but not as much as Penny does.
Moose, a Rott, maybe BYB (not sure, I never met the breeder. Not show lines for sure). Dewclaws removed, scar visible if you look hard, but not noticable otherwise.
Shug, dumped mutt. Still has dewclaws (closely attached), doesn't seem to use them much.

All in all, I prefer for dewclaws to be left on. I suppose there are legitimate reasons to remove them but I would only do it if the dog seemed to have trouble with them.


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## StardustInVegas (Apr 11, 2009)

Willowy said:


> "Thumbs" ARE dewclaws. Some are attached and some aren't. But the dewclaw is what most people would refer to as a thumb.
> 
> All in all, I prefer for dewclaws to be left on. I suppose there are legitimate reasons to remove them but I would only do it if the dog seemed to have trouble with them.



Ahh, now it make sense. The whole time I thought dewclaws are just the extra "thumbs" that are in the back legs. Cats only have 4 claws in the back (aside from polydoctyles), so I thought it was 'supposed' to be the same for the dogs...5 in front, 4 in back with dewclaws removed.

My puppy has the front dewclaws on pretty tight, you would have to really look to find them. The back dewclaws are pretty loose (no bones), and they flop around. I haven't seen her get into any trouble or snags with them so why bother getting them removed?


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

StardustInVegas said:


> I haven't seen her get into any trouble or snags with them so why bother getting them removed?


well it's normally done at a very young age around 0-5 days old as a preventative. If a dewclaw is torn off it can cause major blood loss. and I have seen about 3 dogs in my life get their dew claws caught on things lukly they all got free without tearing them off.

it's just one of thoughs things like docking tails.

do it at 0-5 days old the puppies don't need anestetic and the wound heals very fast with very little bleeding, and it removes any chances of injury later on. 

Dog who never gets them removed, may or may not get them pulled off in an accident. if they do get ripped the dog has to go to the vet, get put under anastesia, there is more blood loss, with a longer healing time.

not to mention detached Dewclaws are compleatly useless and IMO should always be removed.
I think attached Dewclaws should be up to the owner.

again like I said Attached dewclaws are likly to cause much less problems than detached ones.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Well, Beau's ripped his left dewclaw three times, and it hasn't been a big ordeal at all. In fact, we only noticed it happen once because he did bleed profusely. He carried on like he had been beaten and bled all over the bed. But we took him to the vet and had his foot wrapped for a while, gave him some antibiotics and it healed up great. The other two times I just noticed because I got down to clip his nails and the nail was missing again. 

My two dogs that have no dewclaws have zero scarring at all. You'd never know there was a toe there unless you knew dogs were supposed to have dewclaws. Even my old byb girl had no scarring from her dewclaw removal. 

A friend has a beagle with back and front dews and all are pretty loose but the back ones have no bone in them. They flop around and she has problems all the time with them. I was surprised when she got her that a breeder would leave those on, but then again the breeder did a lot of other things terribly wrong...


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

There was a little puppy someone was giving away in the store the other day that was guessed to be an aussie mix, but when we went to trim it's nails it had double back dewclaws. So now we think it's a great pyr. mix. Anyone know of other breeds that have double back dewclaws?


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

Yeah Bridgette doesn't have rear dewclaws and I can't even tell if she ever did. At the clinic we have removed them on babies when we docked the tails, but neither vet really likes doing tails so we very rarely see them. 

We have removed detached rear dewclaws from older dogs during a neuter/spay if they are causing a problem...it's usually just aesthetic though. 

That being said, Brody has one detached rear dewclaw and it freaks me out! It flops around and as far as I can tell he has no feeling in it since it will be twisted in the most disgusting way! Yeek!


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

It is personal prefference, i've spoken with judges that say rear dewclaws are seen as faults, others say only rear dewclaws are faults, and others will allow all 4 on the dog without being disqualified.

Also spoken with vets that say that the only vestigial toes are the rear dewclaws, front dewclaws do have bone, and are used by the dog in many ways we don't see right away.

Huskies that are still used to pull sleds don't have any dewclaws removed, apparently those dewclaws help increase their performance when runing through snow.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

As for a fault or not, that depends on breed and not judge. There are some breeds like Beaucerons and Great Pyrs that you CANNOT show if you remove any of the dewclaws. In my breed, we're fortunate enough to get the choice.


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