# Interesting thing in the news here today...



## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/01/1...+to+pick+with+international+pet+rescue+groups


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I guess I'm with the people who say that it doesn't matter where they're from; a dog in need is a dog in need. And apparently Calgary does have a very good animal care system, with very little actual overpopulation. Where do they want people to get their small-breed dogs? From puppymills?

If a city with a million people only has 150-ish dogs available for adoption (assuming no savable dogs are killed, which I think is true based on what I've read about Calgary's shelter system), and only around 140 neglect cases last year, that's pretty dang good.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

A dog is a dog is a dog, doesn't matter what country they were born in.

My issue is this: The organization that the article mentions (Pawsitive Match) says on their FAQ page that adoption fees range from $350-$500. I've never worked with a rescue (not a county humane society or pound, but a private nonprofit) that has charged any more than ~$300 for a dog, and with the same routine veterinary care that these dogs come with. Presumably, the higher adoption fees are to cover the cost of transporting the dog [internationally].

The first dog listed on their "Dogs for Adoption" page came from Mexico, and was "found with her siblings by the side of the road." If the organization took the ~$400 adoption fee and instead of importing the dog, used that money to spay and neuter the dog and her siblings, approximately 16 animals could be fixed (http://cwob.org/donatespay.html) at approximately $25 a dog.

This is one of those cases like the starfish story- the adoption agency may not be saving every dog, but they mean the world to the few dogs they do save. However, their money could be used MUCH more effectively. Taking dogs from other countries is doing nothing to solve the root of the problem- there are too many unaltered dogs. 

My opinion is that the money should be used for S/N programs here or abroad, and if any shelters in the US or Canada have a "shortage" of dogs to adopt- I will welcome them here to NC with open arms, and I promise there is NEVER a shortage of friendly, young adoptable dogs here in the south.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Rescued said:


> However, their money could be used MUCH more effectively. Taking dogs from other countries is doing nothing to solve the root of the problem- there are too many unaltered dogs.


Not in Calgary. . .really, look it up. Their animal welfare system is impressive. And I don't think they need the money. In Mexico or Afghanistan (or North Carolina or South Dakota), yes, there are too many unaltered dogs. But even after they're spayed/neutered, they still need a home. If people in Calgary want dogs and can afford to pay the costs of importing them, and those dogs need homes, sounds like a good match to me. 

There are some agencies that take dogs (mostly puppies) from high-kill shelters in rural areas and send them to Massachusetts and other states with no overpopulation problems. There's a sanctuary about 2-3 hours from here that partners with a shelter in Mass., and sends them a lot of large-breed farmdog puppies and small-breed adult dogs.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Not in Calgary. . .really, look it up. Their animal welfare system is impressive. And I don't think they need the money. In Mexico or Afghanistan (or North Carolina or South Dakota), yes, there are too many unaltered dogs. But even after they're spayed/neutered, they still need a home. If people in Calgary want dogs and can afford to pay the costs of importing them, and those dogs need homes, sounds like a good match to me.
> 
> There are some agencies that take dogs (mostly puppies) from high-kill shelters in rural areas and send them to Massachusetts and other states with no overpopulation problems. There's a sanctuary about 2-3 hours from here that partners with a shelter in Mass., and sends them a lot of large-breed farmdog puppies and small-breed adult dogs.


I just had a three paragraph response typed out and ONCE again hit "reply to thread" (the GIANT BUTTON) instead of the tiny "post quick reply." Does anyone have a solution? I keep doing it and my entire response disappears.

On the original note, the gist of my post was why not pull dogs from the US instead of Mexico, because it will cost less to get them to Canada and therefore more are able to be saved.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Rescued said:


> On the original note, the gist of my post was why not pull dogs from the US instead of Mexico, because it will cost less to get them to Canada and therefore more are able to be saved.


I'm not sure it would cost less. . .if they have the vetting done before they come to Canada, Afghani and Mexican vets are a lot cheaper. It probably costs about the same for transport. And some shelters charge rescues an adoption fee, or are antagonistic to rescue groups. In other countries they don't even have to deal with a shelter, they can just pull dogs right off the streets. Anyway, I'm sure they considered it at some point.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

It's a tossup because there are still dogs in need here. Some of the other rescues do take in mill dogs as well as reservation dogs, and all the rescues help out with a spay and neuter program for the reserves - and while a lot of those dogs are big, there's small ones too. The program is amazing to see in action, it's a mobile clinic setup where teams start with going door to door to get dogs and cats, while others set up the clinic areas, then start with a mass line of surgeries to put through 180 animals in two days time. Plus they take in a lot of dogs and cats into the shelter system.

It's not a perfect system though, we have a lot of issues with feral cats where I'm at (out of the city, cats aren't covered really, nobody will pick them up etc. so there's ferals), a horrible cruddy 'zoo' run by a nutcase that was shut down but then he lined some pockets and gets to reopen (lack of shelter, proper food and water were the main issues). You pretty much have to beat your dog in public it seems to get charged with much. We have puppy mills and other issues too, perhaps not as much as other countries, but we have a long way to go. I know some of the rescues get totally overloaded and might be missing the bigger picture by providing transport of the dogs from there to here, without doing enough there.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Two other points:

The rescue organization that I listed directly in the article doesn't state that they will take the dog back if you can't keep it any longer. It says they will assist with finding a home, but IMO any rescue organization should have that directly stated (it could be in their adoption agreement and not on the website). I feel that is a key part of running any rescue, and it would be sad if that wasn't written into their adoption contract.

I really hope they're quarantining all dogs prior to and after import, it doesn't appear that Canada requires it.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

I know the answers to those ones! LOL I used to foster for them.

They will take a dog back and rehome it if needed. One of the pups that I fostered here got hit by a car, owners couldn't afford vet care, so he came back as a foster to be rehomed. As for quarantining, not really. I've gotten dogs off the airplane from Mexico, they were in care down there first but then brought in. One of the last times I fostered, it was four pups from the reserve, a different rescue had picked them up, PM asked if I could take them and I said yes but found out too late that the pups were 5 weeks or so and hadn't ever seen a vet, not in good shape, long story short they had parvo. 

I'm assuming they're a bit more careful now and asking more questions (I was pretty upset and told them not to cheap out and to get the snap tests themselves for any dog off the reserve that young/sick), but who knows.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Bordermom said:


> I know the answers to those ones! LOL I used to foster for them.
> 
> They will take a dog back and rehome it if needed. One of the pups that I fostered here got hit by a car, owners couldn't afford vet care, so he came back as a foster to be rehomed. As for quarantining, not really. I've gotten dogs off the airplane from Mexico, they were in care down there first but then brought in. One of the last times I fostered, it was four pups from the reserve, a different rescue had picked them up, PM asked if I could take them and I said yes but found out too late that the pups were 5 weeks or so and hadn't ever seen a vet, not in good shape, long story short they had parvo.
> 
> I'm assuming they're a bit more careful now and asking more questions (I was pretty upset and told them not to cheap out and to get the snap tests themselves for any dog off the reserve that young/sick), but who knows.


Out of curiosity, was there a reason you stopped fostering for them? Or did you stop fostering all together.

Quarantining is so hard to do when you rely on foster homes- the majority of the dogs from the first rescue I fostered for were litters pulled from the high-kill rural shelters that didn't give any sort of veterinary care in the shelter- didn't even test for parvo. It always made me nervous bringing new puppies home and knowing that if they were incubating parvo it would be risky to foster again for another 9+ months. Thank god we never experienced it at my house.

Is there a reason that they like getting dogs from outside Canada/US? To me this points to a clever marketing scheme...people want to rescue dogs that seem special. (Not demeaning what they're doing at all, it just seems like an interesting choice for a rescue to make.)


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

I have my reasons for not fostering anymore.

The one rescue is working on building a shelter for such cases, to be sure they're 'safe' before they go to a foster home, so not sure if all rescues would get to use it or not.

I think the 'fad' is to get a rescue from far away, much better than the reservation dogs (oddly enough there's lots of small ones there too).


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## w49_boarding (May 13, 2011)

I find this to be interesting as my old roommate got a dog through Pawsitive Match (beautiful pit mix from LA). It seemed like a couple of years ago the amount of mexican dogs compared to local dogs was much closer. Now if you look on the website you will be hard pressed to find even five local adoptable dogs from the reserves. 

If I were to adopt a dog from one Alberta AARCS would probably be the one I would choose.


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## belka123 (Jan 18, 2012)

We all Created By G-d . and today in 21 century its shame when pets homeless and in need
Homeless Animals


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

It's hard to look at those cute little puppy faces and think that it wasn't a good thing to bring them here to hopefully a much better life. It is the "starfish" story.


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## AussieNerdQueen (Jul 28, 2010)

Rescued said:


> I just had a three paragraph response typed out and ONCE again hit "reply to thread" (the GIANT BUTTON) instead of the tiny "post quick reply." Does anyone have a solution? I keep doing it and my entire response disappears.
> 
> *On the original note, the gist of my post was why not pull dogs from the US instead of Mexico, because it will cost less to get them to Canada and therefore more are able to be saved.*


If you believe that 'your own' should be taken care of first, then I believe it is extremely unfair to say which countries are 'next in line' according to price. An animal in need is an animal in need, and if you truly believe animals from your own area should be taken care of first, then it really doesn't matter where they are pulled from, as they are _*ALL* not Canada._


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