# summer buz cuts?



## kendallj (Apr 22, 2007)

I have a GSD/ Border collie mix who is mostly black and has already had one heat stroke episode. It's only the beginning of the summer and its gonna get hotter. Would giving her a buz (done professionally of course) be an okay thing? I'm not talking boxer short, just to remove some of the bulk to ease the heat a little? Is that a good idea or should I consider other options? she has a consitant water source (for some reason the contractors put a water spiget inside the garage so I got one of those licker attatchments for that.) she also has bowls in EVERY room( well great room and bedroom) that I change twice a day, but I think a good trim down would be good, should I have her buzzed down???


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

Personally I would not shave her. Her coat actually insulates her from the heat. I would invest in a kiddie pool for her to cool off in (if she will, not all dogs like water). Or if your home, soak her legs with cool water several times a day (not her whole body as that can actually increase her temp (think sauna), but dogs have major arteries in their legs and getting them wet will help cool her. 

They also make beds that can be filled with cold water. 

Lots of time in the air conditioning. Especially in the heat of the day. 

Save her walks for early in the AM or after dark. 

Make doggy ice cream, this is a nice cool treat. 

Good luck


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## GreyhoundGirl (May 23, 2007)

Excellent suggestions! 

I'd like to add that making low-sodium beef/chicken broth ice cubes are a great treat for those hot days. Those are the simplest recepies for "doggie ice cream' as was mentioned. You can also make ice cubes each with a piece of kibble in them, or a treat in them. This is a cool treat and also keeps them hydrated. 

Other then that, follow all the advice from all4thedogs. Great advice!


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## merrow (Feb 18, 2007)

lots of dogs like a kong filled with frozen yogaurt in the summer keeps them bizzy and cool


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## Lucky_13 (Jul 4, 2007)

oh, that's a good idea. my dog already has a kong that he loves. i might try filling it with something.


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## bluesbarby (Apr 10, 2007)

Actually, I've always buzz cut my dogs with heavy coats. Vet recommended. I have heard what love4dogs said but I've also heard the opposite. Who knows who is right. But I live in the South west and most heavy coated dogs were not bred for this kind of heat and Zoe was always much happier and I never had a problem with heat stroke.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

I thought we'd gotten past summer buzz cuts for dogs and learned their coat protects them from the heat as well as cold about 40 years ago. I guess everything keeps coming around even those that should be relegated to the trashbin of the past. LOL


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Can you give a dog regular ice cream? Because I took snoopy to a ice creme shop and sat outside with a bowl of vanilla ice cream and I was letting snoopy lick the ice creme that was hanging over the bowl and then my mom said to stop him because it wasn't good for them, is that true?


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

I wouldn't on a regular basis but if he was just getting a little bit and this is a special occasional treat I wouldn't worry about it.


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## DivaDog (Jun 10, 2007)

bluesbarby said:


> Actually, I've always buzz cut my dogs with heavy coats. Vet recommended. I have heard what love4dogs said but I've also heard the opposite. Who knows who is right. But I live in the South west and most heavy coated dogs were not bred for this kind of heat and Zoe was always much happier and I never had a problem with heat stroke.



Only just seen this but wanted to say - vets often recommend clipping - they even recommend clipping breeds like terriers which just dont need it. Unfortunately a lot of vets are just not that well up on their knowledge of dog grooming. Same as I wouldnt expect a groomer to give anything beyond basic medical advice unless having other training, I wouldnt expect a vet to be able to give anything but basic grooming advice - and sadly its often the wrong advice.

And a small lick of ice cream isnt that bad - but not all the time


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## bluesbarby (Apr 10, 2007)

skelaki: you might want to read this: http://www.oes.org/page2/2554~Summer_Heat_Exposure_and_Bobtail_Coats.html

Divadog: just saw your post. Am really surprised at how little respect vets get on this board. So what's your expertise based on?


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## DivaDog (Jun 10, 2007)

bluesbarby - I have no end of respect for vets-when they are dealing with what they know. My post wasnt aimed to be disresepectful to vets - I am mearly informing people in an area I am more than qualified to talk about. 

I have had countless people inform me that their vets said use human shampoo, get the dog shaved down in the middle of the summer, and one that sticks in my mind most is a vet telling a customer with an american cocker that the dog had too much hair? This particular dog was in a show trim and actually needed MORE hair not less. Like I said I have no amount of respect for vets - but I dont expect them to be all that knowledgable on something they are not trained in. They are not all that bad some are great - my own vet included. But some unfortunately give out information that is completely wrong.

As for the article posted - if that was true all OES would be shown clipped. They are not. A well brushed out coat insualtes and also protects from heat. Well brushed being the key words - many dogs are not well brushed and packed undercoat is what causes the overheating in longcoated dogs - not the long coat itself.


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## bluesbarby (Apr 10, 2007)

DivaDog said:


> bluesbarby - I have no end of respect for vets-when they are dealing with what they know. My post wasnt aimed to be disresepectful to vets - I am mearly informing people in an area I am more than qualified to talk about.
> 
> I have had countless people inform me that their vets said use human shampoo, get the dog shaved down in the middle of the summer, and one that sticks in my mind most is a vet telling a customer with an american cocker that the dog had too much hair? This particular dog was in a show trim and actually needed MORE hair not less. Like I said I have no amount of respect for vets - but I dont expect them to be all that knowledgable on something they are not trained in. They are not all that bad some are great - my own vet included. But some unfortunately give out information that is completely wrong.
> 
> As for the article posted - if that was true all OES would be shown clipped. They are not. A well brushed out coat insualtes and also protects from heat. Well brushed being the key words - many dogs are not well brushed and packed undercoat is what causes the overheating in longcoated dogs - not the long coat itself.


I really don't see how that follows at all. I'm talking about people who have heavy coated dogs in areas that are extremely hot. It's not what nature intended. I am not talking about SHOW dogs. And you didn't tell me what your actual expertise is? ARe you a vet? I have never had a vet tell me to shave, only buzz cut. There are good and bad vets that's true. But I would be much more likely to follow their advice than someone who simply "shows" dogs.


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## DivaDog (Jun 10, 2007)

Of course it follows - people still own these sort of breeds in hot areas - there is no difference between pets and show dogs - only that many pet owners dont groom their dogs so well hence they suffer.

As for my area of expertise I am a fully qualified professional dog groomer - and certainly more qualified than a lot of vets to give good sound advice on what is best for a dogs coat. 

I know you wernt talking about show dogs - I was trying to explain the difference and show that pets CAN live in hot areas with all their coat. 

What is the difference between a shave and a buzz cut in your opinion - because most vets dont see a difference im afraid. As I said I have all the respect in the world for a good vet where medical advice is needed - but where grooming is concerned I cannot take most of them seriously.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

diva dog, im here to come to your defnese. id like to ask the person disagreeing, what expertise do you have? most vets do not have any idea about grooming. just ask a groomer who has worked at a vets office and they will tell you how hard it is to work for somone with so little understanding of the job. yes i respect them immensely for their knowledge in health care and all that, but if people are going to get mad at us for giving any meduical advice, then they should feel the same way about aq vet giving grooming advice. on another site, a women said she shaved her lab, and when solmeone told her that this isnt ideal for a lab, she shot back with "my vet recomendded it". well considering her vet charged her 150 bucks for the shave job, im not shocked her vet suggested it. i live in socal, and know so many people with full coated dogs who do just fine, and they are brushed daily and taken to a groomer on a regular basis. they are also not left outside all day and have many different way to cool off (many of which have already been mentioned). these dogs should not be shaved. it is an owners choice, but to me you are just taking the easy way out. you got a dog like this and if your intention was just to shave it, well, you should have gotten a short haired dog.

and just so know, buzz cut and shave are pretty much the same thing. anything done with a 7 or shorter is shaving.


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## bluesbarby (Apr 10, 2007)

I agree, vets don't know how to groom dogs. Anymore than my doctor knows how to cut my hair. But when it comes to a health issue - especially a life threatening health issue which heat stroke is, I'm not going to the groomer for advice. My hairstylist has told me some real whoppers but she has no medical training and very little science training, if any.


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## jatt559 (Jul 7, 2007)

Make sure your dog has an area with plenty of shade preferably in a grassy area its always cooler under a tree and on grass than cement. Like said before buy a small pool and give him plenty of water, if it becomes necessary you should bring him inside in the laundry room if you don't allow him inside the house to keep him cooler. Hope that helps.


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## DivaDog (Jun 10, 2007)

TREATING heatstroke - yes you need a vet, I am not qualified to medically treat a dog with a condition they could potentially die from

PREVENTING heatstroke with the appropriate care of a coat - the vet cannot do that and that is the time you need advice from a trained groomer. The vet can advise on other ways to prevent heatstroke -but rarely do they have enough indepth knowledge to advise on the best coat care to help prevent heatstroke.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I think there's a reason that vets go to veterinary school and groomers go to grooming school...

I wouldn't dream of shaving my fluffy corgi, even if it gets very hot here in the summer, because I know that his coat insulates him from the heat as well as cold, and that if I shave it off, it will never grow back the same, and I'll have grooming issues with his coat for the rest of his life.


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## fuzzie (Jul 6, 2007)

Yes, a coat will insulate a dog by holding in his heat and protecting him from the cold, but then it gets hot. the dog would find some shade, or some cold ground but this big fur coat is insulating him from the cold he is trying to transfer through the ground. what's worse is, all his internal functions are producing heat as well, wich cannot escape him through all this stupid fur! 

stop bashing vets, they spent 8 years learning about the internal workings of a dog. I spent a couple minutes reading a very good artical and applied an ounce of common sence. how 'bout you go to your hair stylist for a brain scan? no that wouldn't make much sence would it... but an architect cuts my hair and I haven't died yet.

an abridged and slightly less emotional version is this... hug your dog and it will feel verry warm. this is natural body heat. it needs to escape.

an excerpt from the artical, if you won't read the entire artical at least read this.

...almost everyone is easily able to understand how the coat protects against cold winter air/wind.

What is apparently less well understood is heat flow and body cooling on warmer days and ultimately on hot summer days. While a dog's normal body temperature is a bit higher than that of an "average" human the dog still needs to loose heat to prevent heat prostration. (The body is constantly burning fuel (food) to liberate the energy necessary for sustaining life - heart beating, breathing, digestion, moving etc., but an inevitable byproduct of this fuel burning is heat. Heat which if not removed would cause the body temperature to quickly climb to fatal levels.)...


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

no one bashed any vet. it is common knowledge that vets went to school to learn about medicine. we went to grooming school to learn about a dogs coat and what it idealy should be. 

if a dog like a border collie mix (mentioned in this post) is brushed everyday, taken to a groomer regularly to blow coat out with a hv dryer, and given good shelter and enough water, will fair very well in heat (i hope i dont have to mention not leaving the dog outside). what makes dogs like this hot and potentially suffer heat stroke is when the undercoat is not brushed out. the hair becomes clumped to the skin. it is like leaving a sweater on in hot weather, your skin cant breathe, which makes you even hotter. most peole do not want to make the extra effort to brush their dogs, or arent given the correct information, and just shave, avoiding the issue al together.

heres my personal problem with shaving. someone brings me a golden. i say, what would you like to do to "max" today. they say "i want him to look like a lab". well you should have gotten a lab. not a golden you intended to turn into a lab. as far as it changing the coat, well you may believe it doesnt do happen, but know that you are taking a chance everytime you shave


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## DivaDog (Jun 10, 2007)

*sigh*

Fuzzie I wont even attempt to change your mind - you spend a couple of minutes reading an article that is all wrong if you read the one with the link on this site. I spent more than thatin years more than twice that learning about how a dogs coat works so forgive me if I just cant agree with you.

All I will do is refer any new readers of this thread to my original posts and that of a few others and hope you can make the right decision.


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## fuzzie (Jul 6, 2007)

lol, no need, purplex changed my mind for me. I had completely overlooked the undercoat, and I think that blowing that out a couple times during the summer will adequately cool a dog down. I STILL do not believe an undercoat, or even a top coat, protects from heat, and you saw how fast that artical changed my mind , with a short, logical, scientific explanation. I currently cannot understand how a coat (though it will delay the transfer of heat) wich all but stops the release of heat and the transfer of cold, can also protect a dog from the heat. you tell all these people not to shave their dogs, but why? it insulates them but how?


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

fuzzy in a nutshell.... the dog has two types of hair and if you go and feel your dogs coat you will be able to see it.... the outer longer coat is harsher it doesn't feel as soft..... it is a bit longer and shinier and coarser ..... that is guard hair.... then put your hand into the coat and you will feel softer fluffier fur underneath, that is undercoat..... 

the guard hair is designed to reflect the sun and heat...... but what is the hot part is not the guard hair it is the fluffy soft undercoat that is thicker and more dense..... 

when you shave your dog you succeed in removing the outer protective reflecting coat..... and you LEAVE the hot heavy thick undercoat....which is what causes a dog to be hot..... thus what you actually do is take away the protective part of the coat and you leave what is actually causing the problem..... that is why shaving doesnt work..... and I agree with some of the others that vets know about medicine but often overstep their boundaries with other areas like grooming and food..... 

because you have already had a problem with heat stroke once I would be very concerned about shaving your dog that has already had heat stroke as shaving does leave them more susceptible to heat stroke..... I woiuld try to come up with other ways to keep your dog cool.... and you have been given great suggestions from the others..... 

i have seven long haired dogs and we don't shave.... and many of hte groomers in this area will not shave these dogs.... 

while we as people think that shaving must be cooler... i mean it is logical.... less hair = cooler...... dogs are not the same as people and have developed mechanisms to keep them cool that may not seem logical to us but work for them.... 

I would not shave your pup. 
s


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## fuzzie (Jul 6, 2007)

thank you shalva, I wasn't aware that the top coat was actually a different type of fur, so it acts a bit like a mirror to the heat? that really isn't that complicated. it doesn't help that the only double coated dogs I know are shaved, so all that I really see is fluffy undercoat...


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

fuzzie said:


> thank you shalva, I wasn't aware that the top coat was actually a different type of fur, so it acts a bit like a mirror to the heat? that really isn't that complicated. it doesn't help that the only double coated dogs I know are shaved, so all that I really see is fluffy undercoat...


exactly so what happens is that the guard hair is not hot to the dog.... but that is what gets cut off when you shave.... the hot stuff is the undercoat and unfortunately that is what gets left on when you shave.... this is why the best thing you could do to cool down your dog is to invest in an undercoat rake... and try to pull out as much of that thick undercoat as you can..... and then try the other suggestions for keeping yoru dog cool.... while they might look hot because of the long fur..... trust me that if you shaved it off they would actually get hotter.... 

I think of it as a comforter like the ones yo ucan buy at LLBean where you have the white plain goose down comforter but you can buy a bunch of various color cotton covers for it to make it match your room..... 
so then you get hot..... its august and you decide to try and make your comforter cooler...... so you take off the cotton cover ...... and sleep just under the goose down.... you really havent gotten rid of the part that is causing you to be hot..... 

S


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## kendallj (Apr 22, 2007)

Shalva that comparison to the down comferter was right on the money it explained the complexity of the canine coat very well. After reading this post it makes me want to take some grooming and dietary classes on the side of my veterinary training so that I can give proper advice and even be some what qualified to do so.


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## DivaDog (Jun 10, 2007)

Kendal I think that would be a very good idea - you can never be too knowledgable where animals are concerned


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## newman_perry7 (Aug 16, 2007)

merrow said:


> lots of dogs like a kong filled with frozen yogaurt in the summer keeps them bizzy and cool


 I most definatly agree with u. Newman loves it!!!!!


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## shell07 (May 20, 2007)

Max, our border collie gets shaved every summer;early May. We live in Colorado and in the country, so it is dry all year long (not much rain). He also has an irrigation ditch to cool himself in, and is inside during the hottest part of the day. There are many dogs here in the country that do get shaved each summer-kind of a given here.. Sometimes he gets shaved twice a year, but this year only once since it was cooler..We have never had a heat stroke problem, or sunburn either. PLUS it keeps the cockle burrs out of his hair. Lots of ice cubes too What is "doggie ice cream"..Do you have a recipe?


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