# agility and the uncoordinated handler



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Has anyone been successful at agility while having two (or three) left feet? Any tips for improving coordination? I've been working on handling skills alone (I'm sure the neighbors are enjoying my graceless floundering) and adding Katie when I think I understand what I'm doing. Anything else I can do?


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm awful. 

It gets better. It gets better primarily as you build muscle memory, the dog becomes more proficient and you have to stop worrying about THAT so much, you remember courses easier (also practice) so have to stop worrying about THAT on top of how you move and what you're doing. That took me right at 18 months, and I'm just starting to see 'wait, which left?' fade and am not getting lost on every other course or so. 

With Kylie. Whom I now trust and have a good feel for.

It (fall on my face, trip over myself, which left did you mean, crap I can't remember the course and am lost, ack, I'm suddenly going to trip over the dog/equipment/air) is going strong with Molly, because my timing with Molly still isn't sound so I still have to think about all the other stuff and she's still learning. I figure another year, I might be okayish with her. Probably 2 - she's kind of a pain.

ETA: So the answer to what you can do is basically fall down a lot.  It WILL GET BETTER.


----------



## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

No suggestions, as I too am a very uncoordinated handler. I practice handling by myself and then add Nova in when I feel I understand better. Problem is that when I add Nova, I also add some major speed. To counteract that, I have to make sure that I have nice lead-out that will give me a little time to think about what I'm doing so that I don't frustrate Nova or cause us to crash into one another.

It sounds weird, but I was thinking about trying to do some line dancing at home (I am also a terrible dancer). I thought that maybe that would help?

Other than that, I am just telling myself that practice makes perfect and that I'm bound to improve with time.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I think a lot of it is that with agility, at some point, you really have to stop thinking. You plot out your plan while you walk the course, figure out what kind of cross you _want_ to do where, figure out where you're going to lead out to - but then you start and the dog is running and you're running and everything's on fire  Even with a slowish dog most people just aren't going to have time to think about it clearly. One maybe it's just me. The only thing I have room for, in my head, while actually doing it it 'what's the next thing' and 'where is my dog'. Even 'what's next' is less like 'jump, jump, jump, cross, tunnel' and more like 'big loop from a-frame to weaves, cross, smaller straight line from the weaves to the red tunnel' or whatever. Everything else just kind of... happens. 

The specifics of my movement, timing, and so on are out the window. There just isn't time for it. That's why, when you walk the course, you see people standing off to the side practicing the rough moves with hand signals and in place, or who go tearing through the course as fast as they can. Short term muscle memory. 

...I think that might actually be why I used to panic so hard about it. I WANT A SPECIFIC PLAN AND TIME TO BE CAREFUL AND PRECISE.


----------



## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

CptJack said:


> I think a lot of it is that with agility, at some point, you really have to stop thinking. You plot out your plan while you walk the course, figure out what kind of cross you _want_ to do where, figure out where you're going to lead out, too, but even a fairly slow dog, once in motion, most people just aren't going to have time to think about it clearly. Maybe this one is just me, but about the only thing I have room for, in my head, while actually doing it it 'what's the next thing' and 'where is my dog'. Even 'what's next' is less like 'jump, jump, jump, cross, tunnel' and more like 'big loop from a-frame to weaves, cross, smaller straight line from the weaves to the red tunnel' or whatever. Everything else just kind of... happens.
> 
> The specifics of my movement, timing, and so on are out the window. There just isn't time for it. That's why, when you walk the course, you see people standing off to the side practicing the rough moves with hand signals and in place, or who go tearing through the course as fast as they can. Short term muscle memory.
> 
> ...I think that might actually be why I used to panic so hard about it. I WANT A SPECIFIC PLAN AND TIME TO BE CAREFUL AND PRECISE.


That's true. I think that is why I panic more when I get told exactly how I need to run a coarse versus walking through and deciding what I *want* to do and being open to adjusting the handling according to what is happening during the run.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah. I'm kind of enjoying where I am with Kylie, now. I mean my instructor will ask me about handling decisions but basically leaves me alone to decide and if it works, it works. We might go through and try a different cross somewhere, but overall as long as I switch sides when I need to, life is good. 

And I use a LOT of plain, regular, EASY, rear crosses. If I'm front crossing it's while the dog is on the contact, or inside a tunnel. Front crossing around jumps? ....NO.

I freaking despise front crosses. They hurt my knees and they feel awkward and I never have enough time to do them, anyway.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Practice, practice, time, confidence. 

I'm horrible. Not only am I uncoordinated but I have anxiety and occasional brain blank outs. Put the 3 together and you have a really messed up course. I often have to stop myself in the middle of things just to figure out what the heck I am doing. It seriously took almost a year until I started figuring out the different dance moves and timing. 

It will just take time. You will get better. You will occasionally still trip over yourself but it won't be that bad.

I'm actually the opposite. I do better when I don't have to make up what to do on the course. I panic and think I'm going to screw up. It's easier when I'm told to do a front cross here or a reverse spin there.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

OH OH OH!

Piece of advice from my trainer that might help with brain blank outs:

If you get lost and forget what you're doing, feed the dog. It keeps the dog from taking your freakout/brain blanking as a bad thing and getting upset by it, and it buys you time to calm down. Not in competition or whatever, but everywhere else, stop and feed the dog.

(I was going to be good and shut up but mention of anxiety and brains going blank - yes, that's me. It reminded me of my trainer's tip for coping with it).


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm about the least coordinated person ever. I've taken down jumps, had to jump jumps, kicked the dog (!), had the dog duck between my feet, tripped, fallen, sprained my ankle, forgotten the course, thrown things at the teacher, almost run the teacher over, run into a pole, nearly run into a tree, etc.

In fact it's a joke now to warn people to step back while I run. 

I just kinda go with it.


----------



## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yeah. I'm kind of enjoying where I am with Kylie, now. I mean my instructor will ask me about handling decisions but basically leaves me alone to decide and if it works, it works. We might go through and try a different cross somewhere, but overall as long as I switch sides when I need to, life is good.
> 
> And I use a LOT of plain, regular, EASY, rear crosses. If I'm front crossing it's while the dog is on the contact, or inside a tunnel. Front crossing around jumps? ....NO.
> 
> I freaking despise front crosses. They hurt my knees and they feel awkward and I never have enough time to do them, anyway.


I loathe front crosses too. When I have the choice, I will do them while Nova is on the contact as well...maybe at the end of a tunnel. But yeah, around jumps? That is an absolute disaster for us right now.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

pawsaddict said:


> I loathe front crosses too. When I have the choice, I will do them while Nova is on the contact as well...maybe at the end of a tunnel. But yeah, around jumps? That is an absolute disaster for us right now.


Kylie weighs like 11lbs and is tiny and not super fast, and it's a disaster for us. The dog is jumping towards you! NO! LOL. I have a serious aversion to that one. So does Kylie, though I suppose that's fair since I"m more likely to flatten her than the other way around if the timing is off.


----------



## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

CptJack said:


> OH OH OH!
> 
> Piece of advice from my trainer that might help with brain blank outs:
> 
> ...


I really like this. Lets you (general) you take a moment to gather yourself and think about what to do next and also lets the dog know that they haven't messed up. Hopefully by feeding the dog in that moment, it keeps their frustration low and helps them stay engaged.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

I've come to be alright with front crosses, especially with forced fronts. I'm starting to prefer things like jaako or reverse spin type things the more I practice them. 

I do try to remember to give Kairi cookies when I have a space out. I always tell her she is a good girl and that mom is having a stupid moment. Poor dog! Thankfully she is difficult to shut down. Space out brains suck!


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

Not much advice here, but I show jump my horse and forget my courses _all the time_. So frustrating! In the horse world I am allowed to yell "LOST!!" Across the arena/field to my trainer and hopefully she can spit out the next jump before I've passed it or crossed my line. But we're going about 25mph so it can be hard. All of our jumps are different colors too so we can name each one by visual aspects. I think any sport that involves a partnership with an animal combined with memorizing a course and then actually performing is extremely difficult. Practice makes perfect!


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow! So relieved that I'm not alone! Thanks for the suggestions and commiseration. 



> Not only am I uncoordinated but I have anxiety and occasional brain blank outs.


Yep, that's me. Last week, we were practicing something we had learned the week before. I had practiced correctly at home, but completely messed up in class. I have no idea why. And, the assistant instructor is always having to play the role of my dog so I can figure out what I'm supposed to be doing before I try with Katie. I feel so bad for her knees.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I've been thinking about this for the past few hours, because I'm anxious _and _out of productive stuff to do, so I'm back yet again.

I think maybe some of the clumsiness when you're learning and the dog is learning is because you have to watch to make sure the dog does what it's supposed to do, and that leaves this gap, where there are just too many balls in the air (hey, look, it's ball again) to make things easy. I'm noticing a lot of that with Molly, now. Even if I can cross now, I'm having to actually FOCUS to make sure she like, takes the jump. Stops at the contact. Stays with me, even, instead of going off to pounce someone in the nuts. Reads my cross. There is all this other stuff in your head and then you get 'remember the next obstacle and oh yeah, execute a dance routine while you do it. 

It's kind of no wonder that falling and tripping and just being awkward and messing up and brain's shorting out/going blank happens so often. 

Or, well, that's me. I can teach the dog or I can work on me but working on me while I teach the dog doesn't work really well. The dog has to learn, and I have to learn, and we do have to learn together but as long as 90% of my brain is occupied by managing the dog, well. My criteria for success is staying in the ring, staying somewhat near me/focused on me, and no one breaking a bone or bleeding.


----------



## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

I'm going to echo the muscle memory stuff. And time, practice, repetition.... I'm definitely one of those people who is off to the side walking the course and my plan in my little 3x3 space, at trials or in class. I was also blessed with a very forgiving first dog. Zoey has been an incredible dog to learn on. Not too fast, not too slow, enough understanding and drive for the game....she's been great! But she has also taught me that just because you walked a course one way, doesn't mean that's how you are going to run it. She has taught me to have a plan a, b and c and be able to choose which one in needed where. 

I agree that learning at the same time as the dog is hard. I think it all starts to click and you are really able to find your rythem together when you start to trust your dog and actually work as partners. When you don't worry about whether or not your dog will take the jump, but just cue and trust that they will do their part while you do yours. That's when it starts to feel magical....


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I've been thinking about this for the past few hours, because I'm anxious _and _out of productive stuff to do, so I'm back yet again.
> 
> I think maybe some of the clumsiness when you're learning and the dog is learning is because you have to watch to make sure the dog does what it's supposed to do, and that leaves this gap, where there are just too many balls in the air (hey, look, it's ball again) to make things easy. I'm noticing a lot of that with Molly, now. Even if I can cross now, I'm having to actually FOCUS to make sure she like, takes the jump. Stops at the contact. Stays with me, even, instead of going off to pounce someone in the nuts.  Reads my cross. There is all this other stuff in your head and then you get 'remember the next obstacle and oh yeah, execute a dance routine while you do it.
> 
> ...


That could be part of it, but trust me when I say I can be uncoordinated and clumsy all by myself. A few years ago, my colleagues and I took a tai chi class together. They tried really hard (not really) to stifle their laughs when I did everything backwards and upside down. 

I'm sure with practice (alone and with Katie) we'll improve, but until then, I'll take comfort in knowing I'm not alone.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

For me if I get lost, I keep on going and just make things up. Totally lost? Ok lets do this jump here and end on a good note. Or I end the exercise and reward my dog and then reset things. It's probably from having Summer because I don't want to shut her down. I just want my dog to have total confidence in me that I know where I'm going (even if I don't!) and that they did their part really well.

If Katie is pretty fast it'll get better too in that she'll start being able to be sent from further away which means less running for you. I can pretty well trust Hank to do what I ask him to (in practice) obstacle wise so I can almost solely focus on getting us in position and handling. We're still having some trouble with him not wanting to get too far ahead of me and that can lead to some fumbling but that will also come with time and confidence.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I was going to post this in general agility thread but I think it fits here. 

Molly's big 'green dog' thing is that she has very little obstacle focus but great handler focus and is incredibly excited by me running. It's improved a lot even over the last couple of weeks of our last classes and will keep getting better, but I swear to god before we really get it tackled I'm going to end up breaking my neck. 

I can send her from almost any distance and be fine (though not for anything too complicated, obviously) but the second I start to move with her or she comes in close, she wraps around my leg and stares at my face or handling arm (she has done no heel work, fyi) going "HI! THIS IS FUN!" while the obstacle she needs to take is like 6" away and she's about to ram it. I have stepped on her more than Kylie, which should be impossible given that she's literally twice Kylie's height. I have also kneed her in the head quite a bit. 

The fact that she occasionally tries to wedge herself between my legs or do leg weaves while I'm in motion is my fault, though, because I trained those as fun tricks. I'm still going to die.

And FTR: I did about 14 years of ballet, a bunch of tap/jazz/modern dance, and several years gymnastics. I am still uncoordinated, and was then too


----------



## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I bet I am much worse than any of you guys! Here are a few hints that helped me a lot. Most I came up with on my own.

#1 Forget calling out obstacle names, your dog is completely going off your body language anyway. Try calling out numbers instead. If you are somewhere near where you are supposed to be you probably can see the next cone. Works fantastic on jumpers courses.

#2 Walk as many different paths as possible, at least doing all front and all rears so you know what each side of the obstacle looks like and if your dog decides to slow or speed up you have half a change of throwing in a better handling maneuver without getting lost.

#3 I only learned this one near the end of my handling career from my instructor [she's second generation agility competitor-teacher/world team/AKC/USDAA finalist good]. Before doing the front cross look away from your dog to see the path you want to be on. Helps get the rotation right so you are rotating 60* or 80* rather than we need to go in that general direction next. 

#4 Trust the dog. Even Sassy wouldn't leap the down contact if my body language told her to stop in the zone if I was a few feet away. You can move laterally a little, just handle the same way as if you were in heel position. Sure helps with the crosses! And you might not run over snooker flags or trip over jumps and lose Grand Prix legs.


----------



## dogsule (Nov 6, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I'm about the least coordinated person ever. I've taken down jumps, had to jump jumps, kicked the dog (!), had the dog duck between my feet, tripped, fallen, sprained my ankle, forgotten the course, thrown things at the teacher, almost run the teacher over, run into a pole, nearly run into a tree, etc.
> 
> In fact it's a joke now to warn people to step back while I run.
> 
> I just kinda go with it.


OMG thanks for the laugh!! I was mortified last week when I fell over backwards landing on my butt in class! I have never fallen before. I have whacked a jump twice with my arm, once causing me to laugh uncontrollably in class and totally mess Belle up but so far that is it. The first time I hit a jump was in a trial, thankfully I never knocked it over it was only my first or second trial. I have come close to hitting other jumps though too. I have been told I do a little hop while I am running. I noticed it in the video at the last trial. Goofy looking but I am not worrying about that at all as long as I can stay upright and not knock anything over. LOL!


----------



## dogsule (Nov 6, 2013)

pawsaddict said:


> I loathe front crosses too. When I have the choice, I will do them while Nova is on the contact as well...maybe at the end of a tunnel. But yeah, around jumps? That is an absolute disaster for us right now.


I am not a fan either over a jump but I did one successfully at the last trial. Walking the course I thought if I didn't do the front cross it would mess up where I wanted to be after the A frame as there was the table, a jump then turn back to the A frame then turn to another jump. Without the front cross after the first jump I would be on the wrong side of the A frame and then possibly a wrong jump could be taken. I am never quite sure what will work with Belle as sometimes she is crazy fast and other times not. Sometimes she starts slow and then speeds up but she is normally really fast over the A frame so I didn't think I could make it to the other side before her without doing the front cross. At least it worked for us though!


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Practice. Practice, practice, practice.


----------

