# Rally?



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Can someone explain rally to me. Would you do that or obedience? 

I'm trying to find a second sport to play with Mia. I would've done nosework but they're not offering it yet. 

Or should I just do the obedience for agility class? Decisions decisions.... They also have freestyle but I have to admit I just don't think that's my thing.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

There's a couple of different answers to the whole Rally vs. Obedience thing.

Some people say you should do Comp OB first because Rally introduces a lot of nasty little habits (extra verbal/physical aid, praise, faulty body positioning when heeling). I have not found this to be particularly true for myself but that doesn't mean it's not a valid argument. However, I use two different commands for Rally ("with me") and Obedience ("heel"). Marge seems to know the difference between working with me on Rally and working with me on Obedience.

Other people say to do Rally first because it introduces the idea of the ring to the dog without the pressure of a judge in close quarters to you (plus Rally does not have a Stand for Exam). Because I own a dog who did have some ring stress issues in the beginning (think we're just beginning to fight them off finally!), I'm definitely in this camp. 

Since you're already well in to agility (you're still in class, right?) I don't think it makes sense for you to take the obedience for agility class. I feel like it's probably likely a lot of stuff that you already know.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Well okay the agility thing is a bit different. We're starting over at level 1 because this instructor is much much more competition based than my last. (She's trained national champs and MACH dogs). So I decided to play it safe so to speak and work back from the ground up. That said, I think another obedience for agility might be overkill since we're already starting back at a lower level than what we've been doing.


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## dantero (Feb 2, 2011)

Rally is basically a timed event, in a ring, with signs at each station telling you what to do. You are allowed a lot more freedom in terms of talking to the dog, body language, etc but if you miss one station you fail, so you have to be able to think on your feet.

The Rally or Obedience question, I think it depends on your goals, and your personality. Are you planning to eventually do both? Just looking for 1 to do? Do you prefer a more formal type of obedience or a more casual type? Personally I love rally, because of the more casual handling and the signs. I love not having a pattern and having to figure out each time what the flow is going to be. Kind of like agility. I also like the extra skills Rally requires, like finishing both ways (flip and around the back). A friend of mine on the other hand hates Rally, she loves the precision required in Obedience and feels Rally is "messy" LOL I find it hard to get excited about wether my dog sits in front of me 1, 3 or 6 inches away, is bumping a little in heeling, etc so while I do trial in obedience, I don't COMPETE in it.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

I wish I would have started in comp. obedience, because I think I've picked up on the nasty rally habits that were mentioned by MissMutt. Now, I'm worried that in obedience we'll have to "re-do" everything to fix what was slacked off in rally. (Kind of like learning to drive a car...if you learn on an automatic and want to learn a stick, you basically have to "learn" to drive two times. If you start learning on a stick, you only have to "learn" once). I'm a little pissed at myself over this, because I think we're going to have a lot more training woes because of this...


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

A lot of good points raised...

Another consideration is simply the class structure/instructors. Which is more in line with what you want to do? Which class has more "on the floor" time? Even in a single club, different people can run the various class series (rally, obedience, agility, conformation, etc.) so the class structures, motivation types, etc., can vary quite a bit.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I am starting a formal obedience class with my dog, but I am thinking that I might do rally-o instead, because it just seems like more fun. But I figure I can't go wrong with a formal obedience class to start out (the place where the class is also teach rally) because it will help form good habits and make sure we are not starting out 'sloppy'.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

I am in a similar position to you, Laurelin. I was trying to figure out what to do in addition to agility with Kimma, and my first thought was rally. Formal obedience intimidates me for some reason. But after meeting with a trainer a couple of weeks ago to address some of my agility handling issues, she actually suggested that we do some formal obedience. So I think we may pursue that mainly on our own (I don't have money for more classes right now), and see how we end up. I'm still taking "private" lessons from the same trainer (she's not charging me, which is amazing of her), so it's not like I'm not getting any guidance whatsoever. But I think that I'd rather do the more "precise" thing and then make it more "sloppy" than start out the other way around. Especially because I've made so many other training mistakes with Kimma 

Now Pentti is definitely going to go for obedience, and he MAY do some agility as well. So he's sort of the opposite. In a way, though, I wish Kimma's obedience was better before we started agility... Oh well! Live and learn! 

I hope you can get in to some more classes soon! Mia must be such a cool dog to work with!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Finkie_Mom said:


> I am in a similar position to you, Laurelin. I was trying to figure out what to do in addition to agility with Kimma, and my first thought was rally. Formal obedience intimidates me for some reason. But after meeting with a trainer a couple of weeks ago to address some of my agility handling issues, she actually suggested that we do some formal obedience. So I think we may pursue that mainly on our own (I don't have money for more classes right now), and see how we end up. I'm still taking "private" lessons from the same trainer (she's not charging me, which is amazing of her), so it's not like I'm not getting any guidance whatsoever. But I think that I'd rather do the more "precise" thing and then make it more "sloppy" than start out the other way around. Especially because I've made so many other training mistakes with Kimma
> 
> Now Pentti is definitely going to go for obedience, and he MAY do some agility as well. So he's sort of the opposite. In a way, though, I wish Kimma's obedience was better before we started agility... Oh well! Live and learn!
> 
> I hope you can get in to some more classes soon! Mia must be such a cool dog to work with!


I'm actually taking formal obedience to _improve_ on rally xD I don't ever se myself walking into a competition obedience ring, but I would like to polish what we know because I think we're more than capable of doing rally WELL. With Auz, I didn't train well and we entered trials prematurely. I want tio avoid those mistakes, because I don't want to squeak by novice again. If I could just get past Tags obedience quirks, we'd be all set. I'm entered in a trial (rally) in April, 2 classes, so I'm having a bit of a panic attack!


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I'm actually taking formal obedience to _improve_ on rally xD I don't ever se myself walking into a competition obedience ring, but I would like to polish what we know because I think we're more than capable of doing rally WELL. With Auz, I didn't train well and we entered trials prematurely. I want tio avoid those mistakes, because I don't want to squeak by novice again. If I could just get past Tags obedience quirks, we'd be all set. I'm entered in a trial (rally) in April, 2 classes, so I'm having a bit of a panic attack!


Hahaha that works, too! 

I guess I figure that if we go for the "more precise" stuff, then the "less precise" will be a bit easier? I don't know, honestly, hahaha. I'm so new at this 

Oh my! April 2!!! Good luck, I know that you will be great  I'm assuming it's with Tag? Let us know how it goes!!!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Finkie_Mom said:


> Hahaha that works, too!
> 
> I guess I figure that if we go for the "more precise" stuff, then the "less precise" will be a bit easier? I don't know, honestly, hahaha. I'm so new at this
> 
> Oh my! April 2!!! Good luck, I know that you will be great  I'm assuming it's with Tag? Let us know how it goes!!!


It's April 10th, but I'm entered in two classes (there are two different starter rally classes with two different judges, so I have a shot at getting 2 out of 4 legs required by this organization). I really honestly expect to NQ, but this is more or less a "test" to see how Tag is going to be in a ring. Sometimes in class, he really sucks the first run but is great during the second, so it will be....a learning experience


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> Can someone explain rally to me. Would you do that or obedience?
> 
> I'm trying to find a second sport to play with Mia. I would've done nosework but they're not offering it yet.
> 
> Or should I just do the obedience for agility class? Decisions decisions.... They also have freestyle but I have to admit I just don't think that's my thing.


Rally is considered pre-obedience. It's much easier (well, except for learning the signs), and you are allowed to "help" your dog much more than in formal obedience. So many people do Rally first (I did it after, but then, I've been doing Obedience for decades). It's sort of a hybrid between Agility and Obedience (developed by the same guy who developed Agility in the US). You have a course (which you get a map for and get to walk) and instead of obstacles you have signs.

If you are looking where I think you are looking, I would go for rally before the "Obedience for Agility." That was developed by Kristen K and if you are taking her class, you'll get all of that there.



LazyGRanch713 said:


> It's April 10th, but I'm entered in two classes (there are two different starter rally classes with two different judges, so I have a shot at getting 2 out of 4 legs required by this organization). I really honestly expect to NQ, but this is more or less a "test" to see how Tag is going to be in a ring. Sometimes in class, he really sucks the first run but is great during the second, so it will be....a learning experience


Which organization? I've only done AKC and APDT. (Like APDT better. It's a little more challenging but, alas, not nearly as available. I was going to start Ray in rally and obedience. But waited too long. They don't allow lame dogs and he's always going to have a limp (at least)


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> Which organization? I've only done AKC and APDT. (Like APDT better. It's a little more challenging but, alas, not nearly as available. I was going to start Ray in rally and obedience. But waited too long. They don't allow lame dogs and he's always going to have a limp (at least)


CWags, it's readily available in Ohio and Michigan  www.c-wags.org
It sounds really user friendly, and I'm hoping it will be a good trial environment to get Taggies feet wet. If I'm not mistaken, you can treat your dog in APDT at stationary exercises? You can do that in C-wags, too, which I think will help Tag realize that rings don't automatically = no food. He's a little trooper. I'm just hoping he enjoys himself and does at least one thing to make me laugh 
ETA: I don't know if CWags makes it to OK or not, but I'm pretty sure disabled dogs (aside from those who are blind) are encouraged to compete as long as it doesn't put any physical strain on the dog.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> CWags, it's readily available in Ohio and Michigan  www.c-wags.org
> It sounds really user friendly, and I'm hoping it will be a good trial environment to get Taggies feet wet. If I'm not mistaken, you can treat your dog in APDT at stationary exercises? You can do that in C-wags, too, which I think will help Tag realize that rings don't automatically = no food. He's a little trooper. I'm just hoping he enjoys himself and does at least one thing to make me laugh
> ETA: I don't know if CWags makes it to OK or not, but I'm pretty sure disabled dogs (aside from those who are blind) are encouraged to compete as long as it doesn't put any physical strain on the dog.


I've heard of it. I don't think it's offered around here. At the APDT rally trials I went to the judges were trying to convince me to get it started in OK (like I don't have enough on my plate!) Yes, in APDT you can give food at stationary signs. The requirements in general though, are a lot stricter than AKC's. No lureing (even with air cookies) and substantial deductions for second cues for a behavior. I may have to look into it though. Having a place where Ray could play in something besides Freestyle (which welcomes disabled dog) would be a nice plus.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> I've heard of it. I don't think it's offered around here. At the APDT rally trials I went to the judges were trying to convince me to get it started in OK (like I don't have enough on my plate!) Yes, in APDT you can give food at stationary signs. The requirements in general though, are a lot stricter than AKC's. No lureing (even with air cookies) and substantial deductions for second cues for a behavior. I may have to look into it though. Having a place where Ray could play in something besides Freestyle (which welcomes disabled dog) would be a nice plus.


I'm thinking it looks like a good entry level organization, not as strict but there's still the chance to NQ. I'm hoping it will help us get our feet wet. I haven't been in a ring since 2006, so I'm a bit rusty  Plus, I'd love to be able to see Ray in action!


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