# tethering and dog bed vs. crate- please help



## ormommy (Mar 30, 2015)

So within the last two weeks Frodo has decided he's not crate trained at night. At first it was an intermittent five minutes of whining, and now it's progressed to tonight ...1- 1 1/2 hours of whining with the occasional bark thrown in.

I can't put him in his pen at night. Too easy to get out of, especially with cat incentive. No other rooms that'll work. So I was wondering about letting him sleep in our bed or out of the crate on the floor, bit tethered with a short leash and a bed down there. But with a not fully potty trained puppy... he either sleeps the night through or whimpers to go potty once.

I have no idea why this is going on. Nothing happened or changed and he still likes it during daytime, so I'm totally confused. He gets a high value chew and a toy in there. He has a fleece pad. It came out of the blue.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Have you thought of taking him out more at night, having a set hourly schedule that he can anticipate. Just habit for me getting them out 3 times before morning up until they 6 months. which means they only waiting in the crate a few hours at a time over night and less fussy knowing it is only a short time before you start lengthening time back to longer stays a little at a time... But do it on set time consistently. Trick is don't be fully awake to do it. so you will still fall back to sleep easily.. 

No idea why he has started, but shortening the time in the crate could help get him back on a full night crate schedule 

There is nothing wrong with letting him sleep tethered, as long as you feel confident that there isn't any choking hazards of getting tangled up while your sleeping. along with puppy proofing the reachable area. My dogs sleep in the bed and still enjoy their crates. always have to approach the crate as a positive for them.


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## TheDawgHaus (May 18, 2015)

If your puppy is whining to go potty in the middle of the night then maybe you should get up to take him. My dogs have always woken me up to potty and I'll get up and take them out. Even when they don't, I'll set my alarm to take them out once every night while we're sleeping.


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## WonderBreadDots (Jun 26, 2012)

Your puppy is still young and maturing. Just like babies and toddlers, sometimes they may go days/weeks/months 'behaving' and then they change. Your puppy will go thru periods of sleeping peacefully thru the night and then bam! he will need to go out three times a night for three weeks straight and doesn't want to be in his crate. Plus his exercise and mental stimulation needs are changing. He may need to do more activities during the day.


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## Werewolf (May 15, 2015)

WonderBreadDots said:


> He may need to do more activities during the day.


This! 
Beau, my heeler boy, started doing this, so we started taking him for an extra run and he stopped the second night. He's never done it since.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

PatriciafromCO said:


> Have you thought of taking him out more at night, having a set hourly schedule that he can anticipate. Just habit for me getting them out 3 times before morning up until they 6 months. which means they only waiting in the crate a few hours at a time over night and less fussy knowing it is only a short time before you start lengthening time back to longer stays a little at a time... But do it on set time consistently. Trick is don't be fully awake to do it. so you will still fall back to sleep easily..
> 
> No idea why he has started, but shortening the time in the crate could help get him back on a full night crate schedule
> 
> There is nothing wrong with letting him sleep tethered, as long as you feel confident that there isn't any choking hazards of getting tangled up while your sleeping. along with puppy proofing the reachable area. My dogs sleep in the bed and still enjoy their crates. always have to approach the crate as a positive for them.


This.

Mine still has to go out once at night and he is 8 months old. sometimes he will poop, sometimes not, but he always pees at least once. When Lincoln his 6 months old and I was sure he knew the concept of "we do business outside" I started letting him sleep outside the crate, on a bed tethered (or else he will bother our other dog LOL and get into things still) during the day when I am there and awake he is inside, not tethered. When we leave however, he is still crated. 

How old is Frodo? if he still doesn't understand that he has to do that outside, then I would crate him until he does. When I first got Lincoln, he went out before he came in, then again at about 11 pm, then again at 5 am.


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## ormommy (Mar 30, 2015)

Sorry I wasn't clear:

Of course I take him out if he has to go! I know he's just a baby. But evenings usually go like this:

last call on water about seven
some quiet time while I read to the kids for bedtime. Sometimes DH will play with him then (if he's not falling asleep waiting for me to be done).
some playtime in his pen, a short grooming session
30 min walk and a short training session, or as 40 min. walk (he gets 2, sometimes 3 25-40 min. walks a day plus playtime in our yard with the family plus several short training sessions. Last walk of the evening is about 8-9 pm with the aim of a 9:30-10 bedtime).
About 20 min. in his pen by himself while I get pj's on and such
A 'last call' walk around the yard in which he peed once, long, or two short times in different places
In his crate about 9:30/10

I think he gets he has to go outside. We've had a few "yes the puppy started whimpering just let me...." accidents. When I say he's not potty trained I mean I don't know if I believe any 13 weeker has the control, I haven't tested my theory by leaving him even relatively unsupervised on carpet like I would be when I'm asleep (because I'm not awake watching him), and I don't want to shove him where I can't hear him because he very often has to go once at night. I'm a light sleeper, but I take sleep meds, so when he's next to me I hear him but I worry I wouldn't in another room, and part of why this is so frustrating is he's keeping me up so late, then usually asking to go again at 12:30/1, that I can't function in the morning.
I'm just at my limit. If I've just taken him out (and yes, I've tried when he starts whimpering taking him out right away, seeing if he just didn't finish. After a week of him never going when I did it, I stopped.) 

I don't know if this means anything, but since we've had him, even with a six pm dinner time and training treats on our walk, he never poops after 6-7. Not once. 

Just found out...last night after his 12:30 am walk he bee-lined towards his playpen, so I let him go there and went to bed. I was past fed up and didn't care if he chased the cat and peed twice in his pen at this point, but I guess he was fine, according to my older kids who got up with dad at 4. That's good and disappointing. I'm glad if that might be a solution-and I really didn't want a crisis, just didn't care at that moment...I really wanted him in my room for some reason...I guess I'm a rare person who wanted the dog on their bed.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

You can try it, there will be a another transition period, just like there was with the crate, there might be whining, not settling etc ... I know when I started tethering Lincoln at night almost 2 months ago, he was a tad unsettled, but now he settles right down. It also helps if they are tired at night LOL


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

wasn't thinking you weren't taking your puppy out to potty when they needed to go potty.. I was suggesting that if you weren't on a consistent by the exact clock hour schedule that could help. The dogs don't have to tell me anything and I am not waiting for them. I go by the clock daily... and am more frequent then they probably need. as they get older that first year just to set that positive patient clock in them that I will be able to work with in the future. IF at the beginning I am doing double time because my clock doesn't match up with theirs, then I do my clock and their clock until they melt into my clock. Flexible yes totally... go with the flow with what works for you for the pup being happy.. got to have that happy puppy place as a foundation so you can work from the happy content puppy in adding new things.. 

I didn't start using crates till later... started puppies crazy loose in the house and was ok that there was going to be accidents , chewed up stuff that I forgot about or didn't think of... (it's a free pass for them not to get mad at them) you want a happy confident puppy so you can't get mad or punish them for what they don't know .. Just get smarter, and clean it up when you get home lol... and work on your training when you are home with them during the day. Always grew up to great adults..

I use crates now and it's awesome.. the end result is the same.. I want to train them while I am home to be a dog that can live with you loose , not need a crate,.. Having one of my dogs need major surgery that he needed to stay calm, and still after surgery with all the stitches and stables and iv's
am so thankful I gave my dog the skills to be so accepting of the crate as a positive safe place , very transferable skill to be in a crate in a strange place around strange people.. 

There is no set rules of when and how....


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

It's possible that he just likes the pen better and may settle well in there. Worth a shot.

I also agree with taking him out on a schedule vs waiting for him to whine and wake you up. It could be that he's figured out whining gets him attention (a trip outside) and now he's using it at times he's not tired and just wants to come out and play. 

You can still have him in your room later, once he's potty trained. Even if he sleeps in a different room now there's nothing to prevent you from bringing him back in there later.


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## ormommy (Mar 30, 2015)

PatriciafromCO said:


> wasn't thinking you weren't taking your puppy out to potty when they needed to go potty.. I was suggesting that if you weren't on a consistent by the exact clock hour schedule that could help. The dogs don't have to tell me anything and I am not waiting for them. I go by the clock daily... and am more frequent then they probably need. as they get older that first year just to set that positive patient clock in them that I will be able to work with in the future. IF at the beginning I am doing double time because my clock doesn't match up with theirs, then I do my clock and their clock until they melt into my clock. Flexible yes totally... go with the flow with what works for you for


I was referring to a different comment, not yours.  I probably was just confusing because I have no brain anymore.

The first few nights he went out 3-4 times a night. Then, just as I was going crazy  he slept through the night from then until just a few nights ago, where he started waking once at 12:30, but after taking longer each night over the last week to get to sleep. It's the going to sleep that's more an issue.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Watson was horrible about going to sleep, and would cry in his crate for half an hour pretty much every night for forever. Any time we moved or rolled over he would assume we were getting up to let him out or something, even though we weren't. So it's like we were reinforcing the whining if we did anything other than lie completely still. I think putting him in another room would have extinguished the behavior faster, because he wouldn't have been able to hear us rolling over or think we were getting up when we weren't. We ended up just letting him out of the crate at 8 months when I trusted he was potty trained, and he sleeps in the bed now, but if nextdog has the same problem I might try moving the crate to another part of the house and see if that helps.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I dont get why a puppy who tells you they need to go out drives people crazy, I mean isn't that better than a puppy who doesn't and messes their crate? I would rather have to go out 4 times a night with a puppy then have a stoic one who doesn't "tell me" .


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## ormommy (Mar 30, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I dont get why a puppy who tells you they need to go out drives people crazy, I mean isn't that better than a puppy who doesn't and messes their crate? I would rather have to go out 4 times a night with a puppy then have a stoic one who doesn't "tell me" .


Because I am 100% sure he doesn't need to go. Because I literally just took him out and watched him go before I put him to bed. Because once the ordeal is over of putting him to bed he wakes up once if at all. Because I am not discussing being woken up in the middle of night. Because he slept through the night two weeks. Because we have never had an in-crate accident. The problem is him going to sleep. Like Elrohwen said, if I roll over he thinks I'm getting up. 

He has a high value (for him) chew (bully stick, Rachael Ray bone, rolled pigs ears) and one of his favorite plush toys (and they are his favourites anyways.) Doesn't like Kong's...I could stuff them with cat food or raw steak and he'd just lick it.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I dont get why a puppy who tells you they need to go out drives people crazy, I mean isn't that better than a puppy who doesn't and messes their crate? I would rather have to go out 4 times a night with a puppy then have a stoic one who doesn't "tell me" .


Because I don't want my puppy whining just to come out and play, or because he's lonely. It worked better for me to set an alarm and wake up once per night. A couple times he did wake up around 5am and clearly needed to go out, so we took him out. But in general, 99% of his whining in the crate was not related to needing to go out.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ormommy said:


> Because I am 100% sure he doesn't need to go. Because I literally just took him out and watched him go before I put him to bed. Because once the ordeal is over of putting him to bed he wakes up once if at all. Because I am not discussing being woken up in the middle of night. Because he slept through the night two weeks. Because we have never had an in-crate accident. The problem is him going to sleep. Like Elrohwen said, if I roll over he thinks I'm getting up.
> 
> He has a high value (for him) chew (bully stick, Rachael Ray bone, rolled pigs ears) and one of his favorite plush toys (and they are his favourites anyways.) Doesn't like Kong's...I could stuff them with cat food or raw steak and he'd just lick it.


OH, I see now, he is fussing because he just doesnt want to be in there LOL. Lincoln did that, I just ignored it, and now he doesnt even have to be in the crate anymore. But he will still wake up if I move in bed LOL.


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## ormommy (Mar 30, 2015)

Well, the second night just leaving him in the ex-pen. He did great. I walked him, and he got his nightly brushing. I went to bed and he fell asleep out there. He did fine throughout the night, no accidents, no whimpering. 
I think I will continue that as long as it is working, and keep up the crate training by crating him 2-2 1/2 hours) during the day like we've been.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Thats great !!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Thats great that you found something he likes better, I wish you all the luck


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