# PAL registering



## monkeykeeper (Nov 9, 2009)

Hi
I have a dog that I'd like to get a PAL registration on through the AKC. I've had a breeder tell me he looks purebred and he works and acts like a purebred. Looking through the AKC information though, he measures 2" above the top end of the standard. He was found as puppy along the side of the road so I don't know his history but he definitely looks very purebred. Will the fact that he's too tall prevent him from being able to be registered?


Handsome Rio by Sara_Frost, on Flickr


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

No, he can still make it if he's over or undersized. My schnauzer is 3" oversized and they let him in. He's a Border Collie? I'd probably register him, if I was on the board. It can be kind of a crapshoot, but I imagine Border Collies have a rather wide margin of error. 

You'll want a better picture, though. He's standing 3/4 in this one, and you need a side shot and a front shot. In both he should be as square to the camera as possible and a little closer. You might get better results with someone to help you. If you search in the photo subforum you can find some example shots.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

You could also register him in Canine Partners as a mixed breed and can do the same things a purebred register in PAL could have if you don't think he can pass as a purebred through PAL. 

But if you insist on PAL then Raegan is right, size of the dog won't matter, the pictures get judged on if they look like the breed, and I am sure some mixed breeds have made it through, but now there is a program for them.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> You could also register him in Canine Partners as a mixed breed and can do the same things a purebred register in PAL could have if you don't think he can pass as a purebred through PAL.


Not *quite*. CP can do Obedience, Rally, and Agility. They cannot do Tracking or breed specific things, like herding. I'm not suggesting known mixed breeds try to "scrape by" into PAL, but this poster has every reason to believe that their dog is in fact a purebred Border Collie. They aren't intentionally being duplicitous, which I understand was a bit of a problem under the ILP/PAL system before the Canine Partners program. 

Might as well shoot for an PAL, because if you're denied they register the dog as a mixed breed automatically.


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## monkeykeeper (Nov 9, 2009)

Thanks, Yeah I know I need some better pictures. I plan on working on that this week  That was just a shot I had available that was sort of ok at showing him off. I need a PAL/ILP because I want to do herding with him. He works like a border collie and shows a lot of potential so we want to give it a try but he needs an ILP for that, the canine partners won't work for AKC herding. I'm not trying to cheat the system, I've had a border collie breeder (who breeds smooth coat working dogs) tell me that he looks purebred and he acts like a purebred. Border collies have so much variation in the breed it can be hard to tell, I was just worried because they ask for the height on the application. Thanks so much!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I don't think I said you were trying to, if that is they way it came off that was not my intention, I just thought that was another venue to try if you weren't sure about PAL. And yes I forgot about those venues (herding, tracking, etc), I am low on sleep so forgive me.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

monkeykeeper said:


> Thanks, Yeah I know I need some better pictures. I plan on working on that this week  That was just a shot I had available that was sort of ok at showing him off. I need a PAL/ILP because I want to do herding with him. He works like a border collie and shows a lot of potential so we want to give it a try but he needs an ILP for that, the canine partners won't work for AKC herding. I'm not trying to cheat the system, I've had a border collie breeder (who breeds smooth coat working dogs) tell me that he looks purebred and he acts like a purebred. Border collies have so much variation in the breed it can be hard to tell, I was just worried because they ask for the height on the application. Thanks so much!


The pictures are very important. There are also two questions on the PAL application that you should pay some attention to and don't blow them off.

One is something like "Why do you think this is a purebred?" and the other is something like "Why do you want to list under PAL?" You actually have the basis for some pretty good answers in the above quote - just clean them up a bit.

Finally, although the AKC does hold herding trials, it is not necessarily considered the "top venue" for herding dogs. You might want to look into other venues such as USBCHA and ASCA. With ASCA in particular, it is very easy to get a "tracking number" which is all you need to enter their herding trials and work toward a herding title.


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## monkeykeeper (Nov 9, 2009)

I know that AKC isn't the best venue for herding, it was just suggested to us as a starting point since we aren't able to train every week right now and they said it's a bit easier to get your feet wet. I've been involved with border collies for a long time, so I know the controversy  The place we are training competes in a different venue that I can't remember the name of right now... NAHD or something? and they do some USBCHA as well.

Can border collies compete in ASCA herding? He has a tracking number but I guess I was under the impression that only Aussies could compete in ASCA herding? I like ASCA and would rather not compete in AKC if there is another option.

ChaosIsAWeim- I didn't really think that you said that, I was just clarifying why I was interested in the PAL. No worries. Thank you for your input!

Sara

Thanks so much.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes you can compete with a Border Collie in ASCA herding! I'm not 100% on the details, some events/trials might be Aussie-only, but the performance events (herding, agility, obedience, rally) are open to other breeds.


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