# Beagle and Off Leash Training



## nicoleclipse (Jun 11, 2008)

Hello everyone! My fiance and I want to adopt a dog and have taken many of the dog suitability tests. Beagles seem to match up with us right at the top every time. Only thing that worries me is that rescue agencies say that beagles can NEVER be let off the leash. Is it possible to train them to be off leash dogs? or to focus on jogging/running instead of sniffing? I've talked to a few beagle owners that say yes, with training their dogs can now be off leash. Any ideas? Thanks!


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I guess anything is possible but beagles, along with Siberian huskies, would have to be one of the toughest breeds to trust off-lead.

I saw a dog on TV who was trained to walk up a ladder with a glass of water balanced on his head so, if you devote a couple years of your life to it, I think you can teach a dog nearly anything.


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## Twinney (Nov 4, 2007)

If you have a dog with a solid recall, I'm sure its possible. Just make sure that when you start, you have control of the dog.
You may want to get a 20ft or 50ft leash for some control though.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

No offense, Twinney, but have you ever owned a beagle?


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

The whole NEVER off leash thing is a very good idea. I lost Bailey for a whole night into the next afternoon when she got off leash. BUT- I have had times where bailey slipped out the front door and I was able to get her back. It's risky with a beagle, they follow their noses so much, but with extensive training, you may be able to, although I wouldnt recommend it. What situations will your beagle be in when it is off leash? Off leash in a fenced in dog park is different than off leash walking through the neighborhood.



Twinney said:


> If you have a dog with a solid recall, I'm sure its possible. Just make sure that when you start, you have control of the dog.
> You may want to get a 20ft or 50ft leash for some control though.


I have come to terms with the fact that my beagles will NEVER have a SOLID recall. It's just part of beagle ownership. If I let Kody off leash, I am putting him in a position to run, I don't put him in the position to fail.


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## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

If you want a dog that can be walked off leash, do NOT get a beagle. I am a owner of two, and I work in beagle and hound rescue. It's not impossible to get a beagle to walk off-leash, but it's close to it and even then, there is always a risk involved. And I can't really say that ANY beagle can have a SOLID off-leash recall. They are scent hounds, and no amount of training will train that instinct out of them.


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## Twinney (Nov 4, 2007)

I could suppose it can be hard. I personally don't own a beagle, the one I know comes back when he's called though. 
The beagle the had before that they had deemed untrainable, but when they gave her to some family members, she went to state in 4-h in obedience her first, second, and third year.
It is hard with any dog, because all dogs follow their noses, or when they see something moving they take off after it.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

But knowing its hard for any dog, you have to also realize that it makes it 100x harder with a beagle.


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## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

4dogs3cats said:


> But knowing its hard for any dog, you have to also realize that it makes it 100x harder with a beagle.


I fully agree. My shih tzu is trained off leash. My mother's boston terrier is trained off leash. However, we do not take them off leash ever, they are just trained so that if they ever accidentally slip out one of the doors, they will not run off.

However, I would never trust my beagles off leash. While true that all dogs follow their noses and other senses to a certain extent, especially if they smell a foreign smell such as a wild animal, beagles and other scent hounds will take off, with a dead on focus on that scent, and will follow it for miles if they have to. You screaming behind them will most of the time do no good.


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## Twinney (Nov 4, 2007)

Yeah. They started with this pup when they first got him home. Before on leash training, like what I did with Kola. I'm not sure how they got Lucy that good.


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## nicoleclipse (Jun 11, 2008)

thank you beagle and non beagle owners! it seems to me it would be pretty hard to train a dog to overcome his instincts. my fiance is an alaskan and used to the idea of dogs not being on leads and sticking with you on wilderness runs. any ideas on what sort of smallish dogs fit the bill? ( i grew up with dogs always on leashes on walks, so i guess no biggie for me, but we need a dog that fits both of us.)


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## HoundedByHounds (Aug 17, 2007)

ditto the "nay's" plus any rescue or breeder worth their salt would not prefer to place a hound with someone who is interested in off lead being part of their normal routine. Much too risky...

If you want velcro look into Herding or Gun dogs.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Oh look, Beagle off leash... in Agility:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EMf5UnrNBkA&feature=related

...and another Beagle off leash... in Rally:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TJpPF1iTowU


I would sure hope any rescue or breeder worth their salt would prefer to place a hound with someone who is interested in such advanced training.

And haven't Beagles been hunted with off leash for hundreds of years?


Oh well, hey, it's a Sibe... in Agility: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vyVK_Q8I-Xs&feature=related

How about another Beagle and even a Whippet off leash... in Fly Ball:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-mo0GzVriF4

Dog sport rings are very distracting places with nothing between your dog and all those distractios but a flimsy, little fence, if that. I don't doubt you could train your dog to enjoy focusing on and interacting with you off leash with time and training. Most people make unleashing their dogs too big of an event.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

pamperedpups said:


> Oh look, Beagle off leash... in Agility:
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=EMf5UnrNBkA&feature=related
> 
> ...


If your beagle decides to follow its nose in an agility ring, it doesnt have many places to go. If your beagle decided to follow its nose in the WILDERNESS it has plenty of places to go. I never said it couldnt be done, but in todays world... I leave the off leash beagles to the professional hunters.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Like I said, the flimsy, little fences used for most dog sport rings won't stop most dogs and in many outdoor competitions there isn't much to stop the dogs after that, yet thousands of hounds compete every year with few incidents. If you're not comfortable training your dogs for off leash work, that's fine, but let's not perpetuate the myth that these dogs cannot or should not be trained to work off leash because they are "so different" than other breeds. Obviously you are taking your chances if you let your dog off leash without proper training, but the same goes for any dog. There are many breeds with a keen sense of smell, high prey drive, and/or the desire to run that would also take the chance to go over staying near their owners without proper training.


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## HoundedByHounds (Aug 17, 2007)

umm MANY hunters lose dogs...that is why they wear GPS tracking collars, bells and are often tatooe'd. They are also trained to return by means of e collar at times...which many pet owners are uncomfortable with. Beagles are a high high numbered breed in shelters..."strays" can you figure out why that might be?

I am on a list with many Beaglers including those that do agility and OB and they have also said off leash works...until it doesn't, and outside of competitions...they do not take risks with their hounds.

LOL @ THOUSANDS of hounds in agility. Don't you mean Border Collies and Aussies?


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Borders and Aussies aren't the only dogs in Agility. I've no doubt there are thousands of HOUNDS (including, but not limited to Beagles) entered anually between the various venues. If not in Agility alone, then definitely including Flyball and the upper levels of Obedience and Rally where the dogs compete off leash and sometimes outdoors.

Of course some Beagles are lost on hunts, and as you pointed out many pet owners also lose their Beagles. Can I figure out why that might be? For one thing, Beagles are a popular breed (more dogs out there = more dogs to lose). Labs are also commonly found in shelters after running away. No doubt most of the runaway pets are insufficiently trained to be reliable off leash. Aside from laziness, I'll bet some of that has something to do with the stigma of training a hound to be reliable off leash.

Off leash works until it doesn't with ALL dogs, but leash control and other forms of containment are far from fool proof. I would rather an owner "take their chances" and do the training, than shy away from it and lose their dog because the dog bolted out the door, squeezed out of the yard, leapt from the car at a rest stop or the owner dropped the leash.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

pamperedpups said:


> Like I said, the flimsy, little fences used for most dog sport rings won't stop most dogs and in many outdoor competitions there isn't much to stop the dogs after that, yet thousands of hounds compete every year with few incidents. If you're not comfortable training your dogs for off leash work, that's fine, but let's not perpetuate the myth that these dogs cannot or should not be trained to work off leash because they are "so different" than other breeds. Obviously you are taking your chances if you let your dog off leash without proper training, but the same goes for any dog. There are many breeds with a keen sense of smell, high prey drive, and/or the desire to run that would also take the chance to go over staying near their owners without proper training.


The dog is focused on the agility, its clearly what it wants to be doing. When I am out on a walk with my dog, I can guarantee you the neighbors cat running down the road is more interesting than walking next to me. My dogs dont have a great recall. Chance has a rock solid recall. Chance is a gsd and the other 2 are beagles. I know it CAN be done, but cant you admit that it is in the beagles blood to follow their noses a bit more? Thats why they use HOUNDS for a lot of search and rescue. I know other dogs are great at it too, but Hounds excel at this.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

The dog is focused on Agility, but the dog cannot run the course on his own. The dog must also be focused on the handler and as I said before, there are many distractions around the ring, like your example of a cat on a walk. The dog has been trained that most of the time, focusing on the hander and the task at hand is more rewarding than going after whatever it else it may see, hear or smell going on. You could do the same with the dog walking off leash with focus next to you at the park. Ultimately it doesn't matter if your dog is a GSD or a Beagle. Yes, training for such focus will be more difficult for certain dogs, but in my opinion to not train for something like reliability off leash simply because "It's a (insert breed)" is silly and more dangerous than trying to train for it.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Oh I train for it. I really do. I just dont RELY on it. I train for it because I would rather have the chance that they WILL listen to me. I just know that there is still that chance that they could dart for no reason whatsoever. (Or a very good reason to them.) I have NO idea what made Bailey dart that night, all I know is she turned a corner and was GONE and I didnt get her back until 2pm the next day and those were the worst 15 hours of my life. I only blamed myself. So yes I train it but no I dont rely on it.

To the OP- while it may be possible, I can tell you that if your DH is always out in the wilderness, if it was me, I would not have my beagle off leash. Especially a rescued one. You dont know that dogs history, it may be a runner. So I wouldnt.

But I wouldnt rule out getting one just because of that. I have never owned a dog more loving than my beagles. They ALWAYS want to cuddle.. and play...and sleep... and play... and cuddle... and sleep.. oh and eat lol. Would an E collar be an option? Or a gps unit? I would def get it microchipped, with a tag that says, I have a microchip!


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

As somebody who owned, and hunted, a beagle for 14 years, I stand by my original statement. It is probably possibly to teach a beagle solid recall but, if off-leash activities are a priority, a beagle would be one of my last breed choices.

When a beagle drives a rabbit, the rabbit runs in a large circle - eventually returning to the waiting hunter, with the dog behind him. (I don't know why they exhibit that self-destructive behavior.)

When a beagle drives, say, a deer, you may as well go back to your car, drive a few miles ahead, and try to head him off. The only way I could reliably get my dog back when he was chasing something other than a rabbit was to fire my shotgun into the air. I guess to him, that meant I had shot at a rabbit and missed and he'd better come back and investigate.

Firing a shotgun into the air is not acceptable in most urban environments.

BTW, that dog could tell the difference between a shotgun and a rifle. The former meant, "Oh boy, let's go." The latter meant nothing at all.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

I'll bet your dog usually got a really big reward when returning after a shotgun fired, no? At the very least was there sometimes a rabbit waiting around for him nearby after a shotgun went off? The fact that he could tell the differnece between a shotgun or a rifle firing is like a dog who knows the difference between a cue and just a word. You could train for the same recall attached to a cue other than a shotgun firing if you worked on it over time in a controlled area. For outdoors activities a whistle may be best. And for a reward, I'll bet a quick game with a stinky, treat-filled, critter-looking toy on a line would become addictive and rewarding for many Beagles.


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## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

MyRescueCrew said:


> And I can't really say that ANY beagle can have a SOLID off-leash recall. They are scent hounds, and no amount of training will train that instinct out of them.


 I don't think I agree with that. I do believe that dogs with excessive trainings can train them to be off leashed. I don't have a hound breed, but I have a herding breed whose instinct is so strong in prey drive. Elisa is a malinios and she used to run away from me if she sees cars, small animals, birds, etc. I put alot of work in her on those issues and her recalls are excellent now. Also in french ring and mondio ring, you aren't allowed to keep your dog on leash during different excerises. It is not simple because she's a malinois and she won't run away. 

Once in a while, she jogs with me off leashed while I bike. If your statement is true, then many hound breeds will run away from their hunters.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Many hounds DO run away from their hunters! Any hunting beagle I have ever known has has both a gps tracking device and an e collar. Plus the OP mentioned rescuing a beagle. You have no idea of that specific dogs beackround. Unless you own or have owned a beagle you just wont understand.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

LOL I guess professional trainers must have to own every breed out there to understand them.  Funny thing is, that's not what the professionals like Pamela Dennison, or Jean Donaldson say...


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

pamperedpups said:


> LOL I guess professional trainers must have to own every breed out there to understand them.  Funny thing is, that's not what the professionals like Pamela Dennison, or Jean Donaldson say...


Well than go for it. I just never will because I own two beagles and have lost them both on more than one occasion. Actually, Kody almost got ran over by a dirtbike, as Chance came back to me. SO while I know my beagles have somewhat of a good recall, but I will never put their lives on it.


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## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

My two beagles were rescues. Guess what? They are BOTH ex-hunting dogs. Guess what else? I work for a rescue that has 80% ex-hunting dogs in it, from walker hounds to beagles. What does that say about re-call if it's a hunting dog? Not much.

Bo was a hunting dog, found him on side of the road, surrounded by woods during hunting season. He was lost and his 'hunter' never claimed him, after I nearly slammed into him going 60mph. So much for that good re-call.

For those who OWN beagles as an everyday companion, will tell you that taking it off leash to go jogging or running or just plain outside is not a good idea. The first kitty, doggy, car, or anything else that's moving gets its attention, it's so long and see ya! 

No one here is saying that beagles CAN'T be trainined off-leash, but I, and others who own them, are saying that it's not the safest or brightest idea. Pamperedpups, your dogs are trained in agility, they have mastered advanced training. Not everyone does that -- I don't. For the everyday owner who just wants a dog to walk by their side and not run off when it see's something to chase, a beagle is not the best choice. There are other breeds out there that will not need nearly as much extensive training for off-leash recall, and will be a lot more trust-worthy off-leash.

As I said, it took nothing for my shih-tzu to walk off-leash. He see's a dog or a cat, and a simple 'no' keeps him right by my side. My beagles on the other hand, it takes one cat to run, and they high-tail it. Luckily we have an acre fenced in securely for when they go outside (they are inside dogs).


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Where IS that applause smiley when you need it?!?!

Thank you. If I let my beagle off leash it would be irresponsible for me to do so.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I own two beagles and I would never, NEVER let them off-leash in an unfenced area. 

You have to remember one thing about Beagles - they are bred to ignore human direction. Most hunters' dogs, like Labs, are bred to follow human direction. The Beagle is bred to identify a scent on a hunt and follow the trail, no matter what. The Husky is the same way: it was bred to ignore the sledder's commands to go forward if it could sense the ice underfoot was too thin to do so. Guess what these two breeds have in common? They're not famous for their solid recall. 

I don't have extensive experience in dog training but I don't think I need it to tell you that when you own a breed that is naturally predisposed to prioritising scent over its owner's call, the odds of getting good recall are against you.

I wouldn't assert that a strong recall in a Beagle is impossible to achieve. I guess with the precise combination of factors (time spent training, rewards used, individual dog's trainability, etc) it would be possible. But honestly, the chances are slim, and personally I wouldn't ever risk it. 

This is not even considering the fact that I don't believe ANY dog can have perfect 100% recall, and that no dog should ever be let off-leash in an unfenced area, regardless of breed.

Edit:
Regarding small-ish breeds that might be a better option for off-leash stuff, if you absolutely must have it. This is really just a stab in the dark here, but maybe a Sheltie or a Border Collie? I don't know. Hopefully a Sheltie or BC owner (there are many on DF) will come along to ascertain this.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I don't know that I'd recommend a BC or sheltie to someone who loves a hound's independence, but a Dachshund (Standard) might be a bit better of a choice. At the same time though- scent is a dog's primary sense. Once they're locked onto a scent, their ears just seem to disengage entirely.

One of the smaller gundogs- I'm specifically thinking of a fieldbred ECS- might be a better choice. 

Training is important, and can accomplish a lot. But if the dog being safe off-leash regularly (for walks, for play sessions, whatever), I would choose anothre breed. No dog is 100%, but a dog of a breed with a propensity to ignore the owner/trainer/handler and a high probability of being distracted by something tempting in the environment, who is going to be put frequently into situations where these two conditions are going to coincide? Just a bad choice.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

In a highly distracting environment (like a agility ring, dog park, etc) i have a 99% recall with my siberian huskies.

In the wilderness, suburbs, etc where distractions are more spread out, more open space, etc.. I have maybe 20% recall if that.

Thats been my personal experience. How i treat them for coming to me has been identical both times.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Exactly. I have lost Bailey too many times to put my faith in her recall.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

There seems to be a pattern developing here. Unless I missed it, nobody who has actually ever OWNED a beagle thinks that off-leash activities (jogging, etc) are a good idea.

Narrative examples of professional trainers who have successfully taught reliable recall to a beagle aside, I think the OP has an answer,


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