# Loose Stool/Diarrhea, UTI, Lethargy



## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

My 14 week old Akita/German Shepherd mix puppy has been ill for awhile (actually, she seems to get better for awhile, then gets symptomatic again). We've been to the vet several times, and I'm picking up some meds for her tonight, as well as taking her back in on Friday. Until then, I thought I'd consult the forum to see if anyone has any ideas.

I got Luna on 1/30/09 from a shelter. I was given a ziploc baggie of her old food, to mix with the new food. The old food lasted 4 days. I switched her to Taste of the Wild - Wetlands formula. She was experiencing some rather loose stool.

She was given her second dose of wormer on 02/08/09 (strongid) and went in for a bordetella vaccination on 02/10/09. Fecal sample showed roundworms. The next day she was extremely lethargic so I took her back in. She had also gotten a hold of a black puffball mushroom and I was concerned that was the cause of her symptoms. The vet did blood/liver/kidney tests and all came back normal. She gave us an antibiotic (I'll get the exact name of it when I get home) for stomach issues. The stool started to return to normal and she started going 3x daily rather than 4-5x daily.

By 02/17/09, she was urinating very frequently (several times an hour) and sometimes very little urine would come out. She was scheduled for her parvo/distemper booster so I talked to the vet about it when we were in for that. A urinalysis was done and it turned out she had a mild UTI. She was given Clavamox.

A few more days passed, and the stool got softer again. She experienced a couple of lethargic days this past weekend (sleeping pretty much all day, perking up and becoming her old self by around 3-4 in the afternoon). 

Yesterday morning, she pooped in her crate and it was pudding like. By afternoon, it was worse. By nighttime, it was watery. I talked to the vet clinic yesterday evening and they had the vet call me this morning. She is putting Luna back on the stomach antibiotic along with the Clavamox (the UTI symptoms have not resolved). I called my brother (currently at home with Luna) and he said she pooped in her crate again and also went twice outside. She's been going 6-8x daily! We stop after work today to pick up the medication.

As I stated previously, she is on TOTW. She gets 1.5 cups 2x daily (though she rarely eats it all. She is not very enthusiastic about eating). For treats, she mostly gets Natural Balance Duck & Potato (potty rewards and when she first goes in her crate) and a very small amount of tiny pieces of hot dog during short training sessions. She gets her pills in a small bit of cheese. In her kong, she gets 100% pumpkin and non-fat yogurt, frozen.

Any ideas?? Anything in particular I should request as far as tests, x-rays, etc.? Do you think she might have some sort of food allergy? If so... to what? 

Sorry this is so long, but I'm just really concerned about her. Any advice/thoughts will be appreciated.


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## 5 s corral (Dec 31, 2007)

I am not a vet but i would stop the food put her on a bland diet human chicken and rice 
when my guys had uti i always got amoxicillen but all vets have there own ideas totw might be to rich for 
jamie


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## Bailey08 (Aug 12, 2008)

Has your vet done a more recent fecal that was negative? Actually, I would ask to do another fecal anyway, because my understanding is that some intestinal parasites, like giardia, don't always show up on a fecal exam even when the parasites themselves are present (so while she may have tested negative before, she still may have had something).

I'll be honest, my experience is limited to my dog (who is only 9 mos old), but those are signs he exhibited when he had an intestinal parasite (and he's had more than his fair share of them). Since you got her from a shelter and she's a puppy, that would be my guess as to what's going on. It's just a guess, and I'm glad you're going to see your vet for confirmation. 

Btw, definitely add a probiotic to her food, both during and for a while after she goes off of the antibiotic. I've read that you should feed the probiotic 2 hours after the antibiotic (because the latter will kill off the "good" bacteria in the former), but there's still a benefit to feeding both at the same time if you don't have time to space things out like that.

You shouldn't feed chicken and rice for an extended period of time (because it lacks calcium), but it's okay for the short term if it helps her. You could also try something like Science Diet's Prescription ID food (yes, evil Science Diet!). Pumpkin may help, too. These don't treat anything, they just help manage the symptoms (aka diarrhea).

Good luck!


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## Trainer (Feb 18, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> She was given her second dose of wormer on 02/08/09 (strongid) and went in for a bordetella vaccination on 02/10/09.





> She was scheduled for her parvo/distemper booster so I talked to the vet about it when we were in for that.


It plainly says on the vaccine bottles that the vaccines should only be given to healthy dogs. Your dog is not healthy. She should never have been given these vaccines. Her immune system was very busy fighting whatever is causing her stomach problem and then she it gets bombarded with bordetella, parvo, and distemper viruses to fight. There is a limit as to how much one immune system can handle, particularly the immature immune system of such a young puppy. 

There is no way of knowing what effect these vaccines had on her present condition. They could not have been helpful.


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## Mason (Sep 17, 2008)

If she's on Metranidazole, or Flagyl (which is the only "stomach" med I can think of at the moment), she shouldn't be having problems with Giardia, as it is used to treat it. I would, however, go back in for another fecal just to make sure she's clean.

Bombarding her system with vaccinations and whatnot, as Trainer stated, was probably a bad idea. It'll just exacerbate the situation. The constant antibiotics have probably killed off all the good bacteria in her intestines, as well, which would add to the loose stool. You might want to try probiotics.

Do try the chicken and rice diet, and when you progress back to kibble, try something a little less rich. My vet told me that the puppy's system tends not to be able to handle foods like that. Blue Buffalo puppy food was even too much for my pup, and he had the same stool problem as Luna for the first 6 months of his life. He was put on a bland prescription diet for a while, and it definitely helped. If you're concerned about food allergies, talk to your vet about it.


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Mason said:


> If she's on Metranidazole, or Flagyl (which is the only "stomach" med I can think of at the moment), she shouldn't be having problems with Giardia, as it is used to treat it. I would, however, go back in for another fecal just to make sure she's clean.


Yes, that's the med (Metranidazole). She was on it for awhile, then she was better, then she went on the UTI med, got worse, and now she's back on the Metranidazole.



> Bombarding her system with vaccinations and whatnot, as Trainer stated, was probably a bad idea. It'll just exacerbate the situation. The constant antibiotics have probably killed off all the good bacteria in her intestines, as well, which would add to the loose stool. You might want to try probiotics.


As I stated above, she was actually healthy (or appeared healthy) at the time of the vaccinations. My vet also freaked me out about the fact that she was way past due on her parvo/distemper vaccine so there was a bit of urgency instilled in me.  I do intend to start probiotics. Any particular recommendations?



> Do try the chicken and rice diet, and when you progress back to kibble, try something a little less rich. My vet told me that the puppy's system tends not to be able to handle foods like that. Blue Buffalo puppy food was even too much for my pup, and he had the same stool problem as Luna for the first 6 months of his life. He was put on a bland prescription diet for a while, and it definitely helped. If you're concerned about food allergies, talk to your vet about it.


Do you have any particular food recommendations? Vets tend to peddle Science Diet, so it makes me cautious to listen to nutrition advice from them. In fact, yesterday when I was picking up Luna's meds, they pretty much required another woman to put her dog on Science Diet because she was having some extreme food allergies... So I pretty much know what their food recommendation is going to be for Luna and I'm not taking it.


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## Mason (Sep 17, 2008)

I've not personally used probiotics, as the yogurt and pumpkin seemed to help my pup, but there have been some recommendations given in these forums. I can't remember what they were, but if you type "probiotics" into the forum search, I'm sure you can find them.

Did your vet feel your pup's entire body? Maybe looking for an obstruction in the intestines? I ask purely because mine has a bad habit of swallowing things he shouldn't. If there is one, it could be horribly uncomfortable, causing lethargy and sometimes diarrhea. Maybe ask your vet about it.

I did fall into that Science Diet Prescription food trap, but it honestly did help with the stool. If she's on it, it'll only be for a short while. I personally would not feed it to my pup beyond a couple of months. I'm actually taking him to a veterinary dermatologist next month to find out why he's still itching so badly.

I don't know what it is about puppy food, but it seemed to destroy my boy. When he came down off the prescription stuff, I tried putting him back on it, and his system just couldn't take it. I now have him on adult Eagle Pack Holistic duck meal and oatmeal. It does have a decent amount of ingredients, much like the Blue Buffalo puppy food, but his stool is finally firm. (Now, granted, I don't know the correct age for switching to adult food. I would ask your vet. Mine's 8 months old.) Check out the food forum on this site. It's very informative, and can provide you with lots of options.


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

My vet did do a very thorough examination the first time, but I will have her do another one when we go in tomorrow. 

Luna isn't actually on puppy food. The TOTW is for "all life stages" but I'm worried it has too much protein for a large breed puppy. I am thinking of putting her on Wellness Large Breed formula, but I will see after she's checked out by a vet. I'm going to do a bland diet for a week or two.

ETA: I found this on Petco.com. Since we have a Petco nearby, I was looking for something I could pick up so I can get her started on it ASAP: http://www.petco.com/product/108774...-Dietary-Supplement.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

I also found this: http://www.petco.com/product/105629/PETCO-Coprophagia-Tablets.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Also, I think TOTW is supposed to have probiotics in it, but it's probably not doing her any good because she's just pooping it all out.


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm back from the vet, and the giardia test came back negative. Her urine is apparently clear of bacteria (no more UTI). She still has roundworms, even after two rounds of strongid, and the vet thinks that's the cause of the diarrhea/loose stool. Her third round of strongid is due tomorrow and the vet gave me two more for after that. 

I gave her an ingredient list on TOTW and she said it looks like a really good food. She said the bland diet is a good idea for a few days, then said to transition back to the food slowly. 

I asked her about the probiotics and she said she thought I should hold off for awhile. Her reasoning was because if the probiotics upset her stomach, we won't know if it's the probiotics or something else (whatever's causing the stomach issues currently). 

What do you guys think? I was thinking I needed to get her on the probiotics ASAP. I ordered some K-9 Challenge Probiotics but also picked up some other stuff to use while I'm waiting for it to arrive. I got "The Missing Link." 

Do you guys think I should start probiotics now? If so, when do I give them? She generally gets her evening meal, then the medication shortly after (vet said it's better to give on a full stomach). Should I feed the probiotics with the meal? Or should I give them a few hours after the antibiotics? (I could split up her evening meal into two feedings).

Also, the vet suggested (and I agreed) that the vaccinations wait until after we're sure Luna's healthy.


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## Trainer (Feb 18, 2009)

I agree with the vet on the probiotics. Her reasoning isgood. I wouldn't use Missing Link either. There is nothing in it that will help you and you are just overcomplicating things just as with probiotics. As much as you are determined to use the these extra things, don't. If your dog is still sick next week, you will have no idea why.


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