# Handling a dog attack, aggression



## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

Currently I'm not dealing with any attacking dogs, but increasingly people in my circle have been asking for help with their dogs. The latest request is to handle resource guarding. Thinking it would help, the owner would take toys and bones away from her puppy, and then give them back. Now the puppy has grown into a 100+ lb dog and is growling and biting over bones. 

The rescue I'm working with also had 'aggression issues' which really weren't aggression at all. He's simply afraid of women. His growl can seriously intimidate people, because he weighs in at 150 lbs, but after less than 1 week of socialization and love, he isn't growling at my wife anymore and seeks her out for attention. Last night my daughter and her friend were both able to pet him without any growling. 

Both of these instances are highly likely to resolve well, but when you deal with dogs on a regular basis, and sometimes go help others with their dogs, you run the risk of getting bitten. I study expressions and body language to get a feel for when problems occur, and so far have done quite well at detecting a problem approaching. However, let's say I miss something important and now I have a dog biting me. Besides not freaking out, I'd like to hear advice on how to handle this. Expand the scenario to an off-leash dog that attacks out of nowhere. Once engaged, I'd like to have an idea of how to diffuse the situation and get the dog calmed down, or at the least to get the dog to stop aggressing.


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## EdDTS (May 30, 2012)

Keeping calm is always important no matter what! Anger, frustration, fear, panic, violence only make the attack worse and it doesn't help the dog. Your best bet is just letting the dog tire itself out. I worked on a dog for a client and when it lunged at me, I just let it freak out and I used the leash to keep it from getting too close, by pulling up a bit on the leash. You just keep it up in the air but you don't really pull up hard or you'll hurt the dog's throat, it just makes it easier to move around and keep it's distance. After a bit it relaxed, and just stopped trying to kill me.
If there is no leash and it's actually grabbed onto you then you have to pull up on the collar that I hope is there, and do pull up a little hard but not too hard, just enough for it to release, and then you hold the collar in a more relaxed position, until the dog relaxes. Don't ever try to pry the mouth open, most of the time you won't be able to lift 150+lbs of pressure off your limb, and you risk getting bit even worse.
Off leash attacks like when your walking your dog you want to hold your dog, and when it comes close stomp your foot on the ground and yell as hard and as loud as you can and that will discourage most dogs from continuing. Should a dog continue, I recommend carrying a walking stick, or something that can be used to keep distance, and hitting it on the ground until it gets discouraged and you can also use it to jab an off leash dog from getting closer.
If it's an off leash attack while you were working with the dog, then refer to what I said about about holding the collar and pulling up.


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## Wicket (Aug 21, 2011)

The more you move and panic, the more the dog will become fixated on you. It imitates prey, and will increase their desire to hold on and maybe even try to shake and rip into you. Like EdDTS said, being calm is absolutely important. One method, if you have both hands free, is to push on the pressure points on the dog's head. There are two, one on either side of the head, where the jaw connects with the skull. It's hard to describe exactly where it is, but you can probably find a diagram on google. If you apply even and firm pressure on those pressure points, it will make the dog release its grip and sometimes will open it's mouth all the way. Do not apply crushing force on those pressure points. This is not meant to hurt the dog, only to get it to release. This is effective if the dog is not in kill mode but in holding mode. I've done this before, and have known other people who have used this technique to get dogs that are latched onto their pups to release. This is only one method, you have to use your best judgment on what to use in particular situations.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

One time I was bitten by one of my own dogs who had gotten into a fight with another dog. The fight exploded suddenly, and was entirely my fault for not monitoring the situation better. This was a long time ago, so I can only plead ignorance. When I pulled my dog away (a 40-lb Aussie), he whipped his head around and bit my hand. I didn't react in any way, and stared calmly into his eyes, flexing my hand to reduce the chance that he'd bite through. I know looking right into his eyes was probably not a good thing, and I knew that even then, but I had a hunch and went with it. For about 3-5 seconds, he had a crazed look in his eyes and held onto my hand painfully. Then the reason slid back into them, and I saw an "Oh shit" look instead. He released my hand and licked it a few times in apology. I hugged him and calmed him down, and took him home. 

This only worked because he was my dog and loved me dearly, so thanks for the input about diffusing dog attacks. I hope to hear from more people. I generally carry a small handgun with me, but I'm not interested in shooting to resolve issues. Eventually I'd love to become a professional dog trainer. Ideally I'll notice body language and read situations that could lead to an aggressive outburst, but in the case that I do get attacked, I'd much prefer to stop the attack without harm to the dog.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

If the dog is seriously holding on, you can use your hand, or a collar if its wearing one, and apply upward pressure to the dogs throat directly behind the jaw. This will cause the dog to "choke out" eventually losing its grip. Most of the time fighting against the dog works, but if not the choke out will cause it to release or lose consciousness.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

im sorry maybe its just me but im a little concerned. in your other posts i hear about you "assisting" families with their training problems, and it seems youre always asking for how to fix it on here. i really think these people need to get a real trainer to help them instead of you going and dealing with problems that youre not properly trained to handle.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> im sorry maybe its just me but im a little concerned. in your other posts i hear about you "assisting" families with their training problems, and it seems youre always asking for how to fix it on here. i really think these people need to get a real trainer to help them instead of you going and dealing with problems that youre not properly trained to handle.


It's a tad scary. 

I would love to have a video of this calmness that comes over people while a dog is chomping on them and maybe breaking a finger or two. 

Then OP on one hand does not want to hurt dog but other hand is carrying a handgun. Why bring up a handgun in reply at all unless it's a possibility. It's a tad confusing, but I confuse easily.

Oh and then getting advice online how to handle the aggression.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> Currently I'm not dealing with any attacking dogs...


Thats good news!
but , Im pretty sure in the future you will be.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> However, let's say I miss something important and now I have a dog biting me. Besides not freaking out, I'd like to hear advice on how to handle this.


Good, qualified behaviourists never "miss something important", which is the reason why they very rarely get bitten, if ever.

My advice would be to refer your friends to a true professional who is equipped to _prevent_ any further aggression, not _foster_ it ... as seems to be the potential here.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

wvasko said:


> I would love to have a video of this calmness that comes over people while a dog is chomping on them and maybe breaking a finger or two.


umm yeah. i have the video of when i was attacked at work breaking up a fight. i had a 110lb american bulldog on one hand, and a 50lb pit mix hanging off my right arm thrashing back and forth.... i was so calm that i... oh wait no... i beat the crap out of that dog till he came off my arm then launched him overhand into a kennel and shut the door... then proceeded to pass out when i saw my bloody hand and bloody arm (im fine with blood, as long as its not my OWN). i was supposed to get stitches... i was too scared lol. so i refused stitches at the hospital because the only reason i would get them is to "reduce the scarring" f- that. those scars remind me every day that my job is dangerous and i need to be prepared for anything to happen.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> umm yeah. i have the video of when i was attacked at work breaking up a fight. i had a 110lb american bulldog on one hand, and a 50lb pit mix hanging off my right arm thrashing back and forth.... i was so calm that i... oh wait no... i beat the crap out of that dog till he came off my arm then launched him overhand into a kennel and shut the door... then proceeded to pass out when i saw my bloody hand and bloody arm (im fine with blood, as long as its not my OWN). i was supposed to get stitches... i was too scared lol. so i refused stitches at the hospital because the only reason i would get them is to "reduce the scarring" f- that. those scars remind me every day that my job is dangerous and i need to be prepared for anything to happen.


GDM, I am so sorry cause when reading your reply I started laughing and it's a very good thing I was not drinking anything cause I would have sprayed all.

Yes that's pretty much the action/reaction that happens in the real dog bites person world, getting dog off arm/hand/leg etc does appear to be the program that needs 1st attention in the real world. Sometimes there is even screaming and crying going on.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

wvasko said:


> GDM, I am so sorry cause when reading your reply I started laughing and it's a very good thing I was not drinking anything cause I would have sprayed all.
> 
> Yes that's pretty much the action/reaction that happens in the real dog bites person world, getting dog off arm/hand/leg etc does appear to be the program that needs 1st attention in the real world. Sometimes there is even screaming and crying going on.


dont be sorry, i def. threw some sarcasm in there! i love how the responces were all about keeping "calm" and using "pressure points" and not "hurting his throat". really? i dont give a damn! you know what my solution is? punch the crap out of their face directed mostly into the nose, choke the hell out of them, beat them if i have an object to beat them with, etc. i really dont give a damn about not hurting the dog. seriously? that dog crossed a BIG line and its not locked onto my arm saying "oooookkkk but im going to try to attack you gently so it doesnt hurt you, but i am going to have to do this ooook?" uh no. and i would really like to see the "calm" these people talk about. did it hurt when i was being attacked, truthfully no. because of adrenaline. had i remained "calm" and THOUGHT about what i was doing, it would have hurt like a mother. it didnt hurt until after i got the dogs off and looked at my wounds, THATS when it hurt. the only thing i thought about when it was happening was getting the dogs off as quickly as possible because i knew what my arm could potentially look like if i didnt. it was bad enough as it is, i have nerve damage in that arm from that dog. had i remained calm and tried to get him off nicely, i probably would have had serious issues that would have resulted in needing surgery....


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yep, if some dog grabs my arm, I am doing whatever I can to get my arm out of its mouth before it does the death shake. I love dogs and don't want to hurt any dog, but if I have to, I will. I had my arm grabbed and clamped very tightly once (after the incident, my arm swelled up and turned a variety of colors -- and I can still see two faint bite marks today, 10 years later), and when hitting the animal's face with the palm of my hand didn't work (it didn't even blink), I kicked it in the neck to make it let go. I felt bad, but it was necessary -- I didn't want to end up with a mangled arm.


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## Wicket (Aug 21, 2011)

Crantastic said:


> Yep, if some dog grabs my arm, I am doing whatever I can to get my arm out of its mouth before it does the death shake. I love dogs and don't want to hurt any dog, but if I have to, I will. I had my arm grabbed and clamped very tightly once (after the incident, my arm swelled up and turned a variety of colors -- and I can still see two faint bite marks today, 10 years later), and when hitting the animal's face with the palm of my hand didn't work (it didn't even blink), I kicked it in the neck to make it let go. I felt bad, but it was necessary -- I didn't want to end up with a mangled arm.


I agree, everyone has the right to protect themselves from either it be a dog, human, or wild animal. It's unfortunate when it comes to dogs, you know it could of been prevented if the owners raised it right and took the necessary precautions. Accidents happen though, and we try our best make sure both parties aren't horrible injured.

(Also, I have to comment on your sig pic, it's so cute! I squeal every time I see your two pups xD)


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Wicket said:


> It's unfortunate when it comes to dogs, you know it could of been prevented if the owners raised it right and took the necessary precautions.


this is actually completely untrue. the dog who got my arm, and did as carntastic said "the death shake" was taken care of to the full extent. the dog was socialized, trained, had been attending daycare since he was just a few months old. never ever ever saw an ounce of aggression from him. if any scuffles happened between dogs, he was typically running the other direction away from it. this time, he just decided to snap and snapped bad. he KNEW he was attacking me as well. its not like he bit me in the process of fighting with another dog... he stopped, looked at me, looked right at my face and jumped/lunged and grabbed my arm and started shaking it..... you have to remember dogs are animals, whether we love them or not. not every bite can be prevented.


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## Wicket (Aug 21, 2011)

GreatDaneMom said:


> this is actually completely untrue. the dog who got my arm, and did as carntastic said "the death shake" was taken care of to the full extent. the dog was socialized, trained, had been attending daycare since he was just a few months old. never ever ever saw an ounce of aggression from him. if any scuffles happened between dogs, he was typically running the other direction away from it. this time, he just decided to snap and snapped bad. he KNEW he was attacking me as well. its not like he bit me in the process of fighting with another dog... he stopped, looked at me, looked right at my face and jumped/lunged and grabbed my arm and started shaking it..... you have to remember dogs are animals, whether we love them or not. not every bite can be prevented.


That's so strange, I wonder what caused him to snap like that. I know dogs are still animals, I guess I try to be a little too optimistic when it comes to the capability of a dog (well, compared to that of a human). I would be more scared of a human coming at me than a dog....opposable thumbs can be more scary than a jaw full of teeth, the types of torture that they can inflict are endless.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Wicket said:


> I guess I try to be a little too optimistic when it comes to the capability of a dog


thats the thinking that gets people bit. always remeber just because a dog has never bitten, doesnt mean it cant or wont.


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## Wicket (Aug 21, 2011)

GreatDaneMom said:


> thats the thinking that gets people bit. always remeber just because a dog has never bitten, doesnt mean it cant or wont.


I know, I like to think with the mentality that anything with a mouth can bite. I never approach a dog I don't know, and I make sure I don't make direct eye contact. Even if a dog approaches me, I never reach out to it. If there are dogs roaming loose, I make sure I steer clear of those areas. I try to be as safe wherever I go, even if it's at a friend's place. I'm not the kind of person that thinks all dogs are friendly. I am more worried for my little dog, she's not cautious at all when it comes to other dogs. She's overly friendly, which isn't always bad, but I have to be extra vigilant for her sake.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

unfortunately im the opposite when it comes to roaming dogs. all the dogs have owners and there arent many loose ones ever, so if i see one, i typicalls go get it nd get it back home. kind of a weakness of mine... i cant just look the other way. fortunately with my training and behavior background, i know how to handle them and how to catch them.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Wicket said:


> I would be more scared of a human coming at me than a dog.....


I was attacked by a neighbors dog when I was 7 years old , and again by a friends dog when I was 15..and by a pit bull when I was 25 years old..

Dog bites.."Real Dog Bites" are Extremely Painfull ...trust me..


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Roloni said:


> Dog bites.."Real Dog Bites" are Extremely Painfull ...trust me..


truthfully during being bit, it didnt hurt. my adrenaline was too high. after though... ugh... weeks it hurt. still does and its been over a year. the burning sensation and the feeling of emense pressure where i was bitten hurt so bad.


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## gspcrazy (Feb 6, 2012)

This looks like the perfect thread to jump in on with a question that has been bothering me. It sounds like a couple of you know your way around animals (and I don't mean the ones who are ONLY concerned with the dog that will NEVER bite and if so won't be its fault). Do you think that pepper spray will stop a dog after its prey drive/kill switch has been engaged? Similarly, do you think that spraying a dog that is exhibiting aggression will deter it or is it likely to trigger an attack? I'm speaking strictly about truly aggressive dogs, not the ones that run up, stop and bark at you. I mean the pit bull that comes at a dead run towards you/your dog as soon as it catches sight of you.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Real bites do hurt. The last one caused me 17 stitches in my thigh. It sounds crazy, but with some of the mean [email protected]&ds that are "trained" in protection I get to fix, its extremely important you remain calm. Start screaming and kicking, they will tear you up. Trust me, a bite and hold is much better than the bite and tear. This is why the choking is a perfect method, done properly, the dog doesn't even know you are fighting back.

Speaking of, I have another dutchie coming. She bit and fractured the owners wife's hand. Sounds like extreme resource guarding over the phone, rather than real aggression. According to the husband, the puppy has been allowed to do as it pleases, and it too much dog for them. I can't count the times I have heard this story


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

gspcrazy said:


> This looks like the perfect thread to jump in on with a question that has been bothering me. It sounds like a couple of you know your way around animals (and I don't mean the ones who are ONLY concerned with the dog that will NEVER bite and if so won't be its fault). Do you think that pepper spray will stop a dog after its prey drive/kill switch has been engaged? Similarly, do you think that spraying a dog that is exhibiting aggression will deter it or is it likely to trigger an attack? I'm speaking strictly about truly aggressive dogs, not the ones that run up, stop and bark at you. I mean the pit bull that comes at a dead run towards you/your dog as soon as it catches sight of you.


 It's not going to stop every dog. The ones it will stop probably could be stopped by serious posturing and shouting.


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## gspcrazy (Feb 6, 2012)

juliemule said:


> It's not going to stop every dog. The ones it will stop probably could be stopped by serious posturing and shouting.


How about the second half of the question. Do you think it is likely to trigger an attack if the dog has in fact stopped? The specific situation I'm thinking about is when an agressive dog comes at you when you're walking your own dog on leash. It seems in most of the situations that I have encoutered this, the aggressor ignors me and goes straight for my pup. Usually positioning myself between my dog and the oncoming one at least slows it down long enough to maneuver around. This happened to me a few days ago with a really big pit bull. I successfully stopped it but then it started running around and around me trying to get at my dog. I took out the pepper spray but didn't use it due to fear that it would trigger the dog to attack, which it eventually did anyway. I intercepted it midair with a kick and went to my second line of defense which is substantially more reliable than the spray. Luckily it wasn't necessary because the kick shifted the dog's focus to me and I was then able to back it down by posturing and nobody got hurt. After the fact I second guessed myself why I didn't just spray the darn thing.

Unfortunately I live in a rural area where calling animal control is pretty much a waste of time. About all they are good for is to come out and pick up a dog if you trap it on your property. To make things worse, there is a parking area for a remote area of state forest where a lot of people take their dogs to turn them off leash. Seems like at least half of them have big, aggressive breeds that totally ignore their owners. That was the situation with my pit encounter the other day. Not one of the neighborhood dogs.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

It probably would have worked if the dog backed down from a kick and posturing. I feel it would work on most dogs. I also believe most dogs won't really attack a person other than a jump in and nip. Some will for sure.

Just the surprise of the spray alone works most of the time. If not the irritation of the airway, and the pain in the eyes usually diverted them. Some dogs have a high pain tolerance, and others have so much drive not much will deter them. I have yet to see a dog not be stopped by electricity via a cattle prod however.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

GreatDaneMom said:


> im sorry maybe its just me but im a little concerned. in your other posts i hear about you "assisting" families with their training problems, and it seems youre always asking for how to fix it on here. i really think these people need to get a real trainer to help them instead of you going and dealing with problems that youre not properly trained to handle.


I do not advertise myself as a professional trainer, nor do I charge for any help I render. I have never yet had any difficulty in handling the dogs I've met, who usually are just having communication issues with their human families. Since sometimes the issue is a type of aggression, the question of this post seemed a valid concern. If someone had a severe issue I would recommend they contact a professional. I offer my help when the problem is within the boundaries of my abilities. Your statement that I'm always asking how to fix the problems here is somewhat insulting and completely incorrect. I have asked only a handful of questions, and I deal with dogs and their training every day. I saw another post that claimed a qualified behaviorist never misses important cues. Really? Odd, because I've read books by PHd behaviorists where they detail some instance in which a missed signal caused a problem. The trainers that I've worked with tell me how they're always going to workshops and consulting with other trainers. I don't believe that many of the workshop instructors or other trainers tell them that, since they're asking questions and getting training, they're obviously not qualified trainers. If they were properly qualified, they'd be perfect and not ever make mistakes, right? And as to the question about my handgun, I carry one for defense, not as a tool to use on dogs. The reasoning behind its mention was simply that I do have a means to shut down a dog attack if the situation necessitated it, but that I really wouldn't want to. I wanted to get advice from other people who know a lot about dogs for situations that could possibly arise. I didn't realize that, by asking questions, I somehow made myself unfit to deal with moderate behavior problems.


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## gspcrazy (Feb 6, 2012)

juliemule said:


> ... I have yet to see a dog not be stopped by electricity via a cattle prod however.


That explains why my wife never runs into trouble when she walks the dog. She must carry the one that she uses on me


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> I do not advertise myself as a professional trainer, nor do I charge for any help I render. I have never yet had any difficulty in handling the dogs I've met, who usually are just having communication issues with their human families. Since sometimes the issue is a type of aggression, the question of this post seemed a valid concern. If someone had a severe issue I would recommend they contact a professional. I offer my help when the problem is within the boundaries of my abilities. Your statement that I'm always asking how to fix the problems here is somewhat insulting and completely incorrect. I have asked only a handful of questions, and I deal with dogs and their training every day. I saw another post that claimed a qualified behaviorist never misses important cues. Really? Odd, because I've read books by PHd behaviorists where they detail some instance in which a missed signal caused a problem. The trainers that I've worked with tell me how they're always going to workshops and consulting with other trainers. I don't believe that many of the workshop instructors or other trainers tell them that, since they're asking questions and getting training, they're obviously not qualified trainers. If they were properly qualified, they'd be perfect and not ever make mistakes, right? And as to the question about my handgun, I carry one for defense, not as a tool to use on dogs. The reasoning behind its mention was simply that I do have a means to shut down a dog attack if the situation necessitated it, but that I really wouldn't want to. I wanted to get advice from other people who know a lot about dogs for situations that could possibly arise. I didn't realize that, by asking questions, I somehow made myself unfit to deal with moderate behavior problems.


1st off you should not be handling aggression issues. the things you have asked here are pretty simple training questions, which tells me you are in no way ready to handle "moderate behavior problems". i have no issues with trainers and behaviorists bouncing ideas off each other, BUT those are different circumstances. thes issues are MUCH more in depth and sometimes you come across that dog that you have TRIED everything on and you just cant figure out what to do, then you ask if someone else might have an idea. but this is not the case. these are simple behavior problems that you are asking everyone to figure out for you before you even go into it. i truthfully do not care if you are insulted, because my concern is not your ego or feelings, its the safety of the dog and the humans involved. any dog dealing with aggression issues needs to be seen by a professional. its not like you just go in and say "ok done, fixed" these people are given a training program to stick to to either manage the issue or help correct it. if you dont even know how to properly deal with the issue, how are they going to continue to help their dog when you arent there? how can you be sure youre handling it correctly? there is a reason for people becoming certified, this is a big example of one of them. because people go on the internet to find solutions to problems that they really have no idea about. its a recipe for disaster. especially when they march around "helping" people, when they themselves have no idea what they are really doing....


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> I saw another post that claimed a qualified behaviorist never misses important cues.


Yes, I think it was last year somebody jumped on and stated that a good dog trainer never gets bit.

Boy if it was only that simple. Nothing in life is written in stone or never say never. (hope that makes sense)


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Lol, I don't know of one dog trainer that's never been bitten. There comes a time when you can only go so far with training, and you must put yourself in a position to risk it. Maybe not in dealing with pet dogs teaching them to heel. Get around some serious dogs, its only a matter of time.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

juliemule said:


> Lol, I don't know of one dog trainer that's never been bitten. There comes a time when you can only go so far with training, and you must put yourself in a position to risk it. Maybe not in dealing with pet dogs teaching them to heel. Get around some serious dogs, its only a matter of time.


Well the real funny/scary part is, it was written online and therefore it must be so.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

wvasko said:


> Well the real funny/scary part is, it was written online and therefore it must be so.


duh! everything on the internet is true!


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

GreatDaneMom said:


> 1st off you should not be handling aggression issues. the things you have asked here are pretty simple training questions, which tells me you are in no way ready to handle "moderate behavior problems". i have no issues with trainers and behaviorists bouncing ideas off each other, BUT those are different circumstances. thes issues are MUCH more in depth and sometimes you come across that dog that you have TRIED everything on and you just cant figure out what to do, then you ask if someone else might have an idea. but this is not the case. these are simple behavior problems that you are asking everyone to figure out for you before you even go into it. i truthfully do not care if you are insulted, because my concern is not your ego or feelings, its the safety of the dog and the humans involved. any dog dealing with aggression issues needs to be seen by a professional. its not like you just go in and say "ok done, fixed" these people are given a training program to stick to to either manage the issue or help correct it. if you dont even know how to properly deal with the issue, how are they going to continue to help their dog when you arent there? how can you be sure youre handling it correctly? there is a reason for people becoming certified, this is a big example of one of them. because people go on the internet to find solutions to problems that they really have no idea about. its a recipe for disaster. especially when they march around "helping" people, when they themselves have no idea what they are really doing....


Everyone handles aggression issues at some point. I was asking for information based on a possible scenario, so that if I ever encountered something like it, I could be better prepared. It would be much like someone putting together a fire escape plan for their house, and asking for input, only to be told they shouldn't be putting together an escape plan without a degree in fire fighting. It's ludicrous. I don't go around assisting people that have dogs prone to fighting. Mostly I help people who are having issues getting their dogs to walk on a loose leash and similar issues. I've been asked on multiple occasions to assist professional trainers, because my dogs are so good at greeting other dogs. Your assumptions that I am attempting to train dogs with serious issues is just that - an assumption. That's why I was insulted by your responses. You assumed from a question that I was doing something I'm not. Just the same, even when not training, just walking through the park, there is a possibility of getting attacked by a dog. I asked for input of what to do in such a situation to resolve it in the least violent manner possible. 

As for people being "certified"... certified by who? There are organizations that provide certifications for dog training, and I could take a weekend course and have one by Monday. The only thing that being a "professional" dog trainer means is that you get paid for it. It does not necessarily confer a higher degree of skill. I am extremely good at training dogs, as is evidenced by having requests for mine to assist with training other dogs by professionals on multiple occasions. I also took in a Newfie rescue who was "too aggressive", and within 2 months had him rehabilitated a calm and happy state. Previously he'd growl menacingly at people, especially women. I do not, however, think I know everything, and occasionally ask for advice from people that hopefully know more than I do. 

The only thing I agree with in your series of posts is that any serious aggression issues should be handled by an animal behaviorist over a period of time. And to stave off other assumptions, by serious I mean anything other than growling.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

juliemule said:


> Real bites do hurt. The last one caused me 17 stitches in my thigh. (


As a dog owner ..and a victim of the dog bite.
I have respect for the animal ..and understand how important it is to train and socialize it properly.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

not sure about the comment of every dog handler has to be bitten.. But I don't want to jynx myself...lol I could never figure out why the guys in my kennels wore black gloves for training and in duty uniform when they were working with a detection dog that was Black Kong reward crazy, so many bites even though the dogs knew in an instant after sinking their teeth into their handlers hand it wasn't a kong and released just the long term nerve damage of not being able to use their hands fully and the chronic life long pain. You would think after so many of them got their hand ripped up it would make sense not to wear the gloves because the dogs kept mistaking them for Kongs in a split second of movement. For me dog on dog fighting for the military dogs is don't rush in and esculate it into an ear and flesh ripping event let them fight it out for awhile and tire themselves out where they more likely to just come part on a breath with a leash tug or a choke out and the dogs not try to sink in harder on each other while you getting them apart. We always had a bite bar, but never needed to use it.

Learned experience Don't wear a down jack that looks like a bite suit.. Long road trip with the military dogs, I get another handlers dog out of the vehicle because the handler was flown home earlier for family matters.. Great dog, easy to get along with, I let him out into the training area to stretch his legs and potty before I put him up ( no problem dog having a good time) I turned my back to walk back to the kennel and WAM !!!! like a ton of bricks hits me at the shoulder forced me forward a few steps to stay upright (gotta love a mal) split second to reallize it's the dog, called out and he released and was looking at me when I turned around.. It's that shock factor of near death experience.. I just smiled and said dude what the H.... common lets kennel up.. That one was on me 100% can't blame the dog.

your survial instinct has to be strong and quick.. Barry mal, knew from day one he arrived something was wiggy about the dog when they arrived with him and had him out walking him around. He had this sudden pause about him.. didn't know what it ment but it was hard not to notice him doing it.. It turned out he would attack the handler for giving commands they trained him on a pinch collar (was not approved practice for the military at the time especially for the extent of deep scaring embbed in his neck using it on a long line to hang the dog during distance bite work) They said they escaped him of the pinch collar before sending the dog out for duty lol lol lol .. This dog felt no pain,, he came up on his handler with such force he bit through his chest and 3 people couldn't pull him off without struggling. They hung that dog up over a fence to pass him out so they could contain him to get him put back up in the kennel) One of the guys cleaning kennels didn't shut the indoor run gate when he went out to do the outside run area. The handler came running in the kennel office area yelling Barry's out.. and no one wanted to get out ther to get Barry.. I grab a dog pan , got the good can stuff and went out there easy as pie Barry happy about his food went right into the kennel.. Then fear rushed over me thinking if the outside kennel run was open or not, so I rushed out of the kennel area and when I rounded the corner (NOPE KENNEL WIDE OPEN) and there stood Barry out looking at me flattening his head in my direction.. I just smiled ( hey Barry whatcha doing lollol ) trying to get my mind to think of something and think of it fast lol lol lol ... Barry loves to play,, so it was Barry what's that!!!!! his expression softened ,, picked up a rock and threw it and Barry ran over to chase and bounce it,, I'm scrambling looking for another rock lol .. and was able to leap frog him keeping him distracted on the game until I had him chasing the last rock into the out door run.. Shut the gate and go curse everyone out for hiding in the kennel building and not even coming out to see if the dog had eaten me and I might be in need of help or something to stop the bleeding.... Interesting experiences for sure

When it's down to the wire first thought is work it out without provoking a fight,, but if a dog ever latched on me, I am with the others that I an't gonna play fair.


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