# Neutering for AKC Events?



## packetsmom

I'm hoping some people more familiar with AKC events might chime in here. 

We are considering all the pros and cons of neutering Sam. We never intend to breed him and, if we did neuter him, I'd want to do it between 18-24 months. I figure that is a good balance between allowing bones and joints to develop well and getting it done young to avoid complications.

One factor in the back of my mind is that I had heard that to compete in any AKC events, like rally, obedience, nose work, etc, any non-purebred, non AKC registered dog had to be spayed or neutered. Is this true? As an example, I was curious about him going to a herding seminar put on by the local AKC GSD breed club and no one could give me a definite answer as to whether he'd need to be neutered to attend. (The cost ended up causing me to give up on it.)

If anyone could point me to the official rules as far as mixed breeds in AKC events, that would be a good help. Thank you!


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## ChaosIsAWeim

If you are going to register him through AKC's canine partners then yes he would need to be neutered, as that is a requirement. You can't compete in AKC companion events without being registered in some venue (in the case of mix breeds its canine partners). I wouldn't think that a seminar would have any restrictions on the dog being desexed or not, it is just a seminar not an actual herding trial (which he couldn't do in AKC to my knowledge). 

Here is the rules for AKC's Canine Partners

http://classic.akc.org/mixedbreeds/index.cfm

http://images.akc.org/pdf/mixedBreed/brochure.pdf

http://classic.akc.org/mixedbreeds/listing_info.cfm


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## CptJack

> One factor in the back of my mind is that I had heard that to compete in any AKC events, like rally, obedience, nose work, etc, any non-purebred, non AKC registered dog had to be spayed or neutered. Is this true?


Yes. 

They have to be registered via AKC Pet Partners to compete in their events, and in order for a mixed breed dog to be registered they have to be altered.

Whether or not the seminar would require that is going to be down, at a GUESS, to whether or not they're requiring the AKC registration/number to sign up.

(I registered Kylie. It was fast, relatively inexpensive, and easy.)


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## Laurelin

Sadly yes. It's kind of annoying me at the moment.


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## packetsmom

Thanks for the info. That will have to go into the mix of factors. :/

I'm finding it a tough decision to make. The vet is all for it and ready to schedule the appointment whenever we like. However, he really isn't engaging in marking or any nuisance behaviors and it sounds unlikely that neutering would do more for any behavioral issues than just continuing training. I think I might put it off until the end of the summer and see where we are at near the end of the Schutzhund season with him.

It's kind of funny since I've just pretty much blindly had any previous dogs spayed or neutered whenever the vet thought it was a good time to do it. Sam is the first dog where I've ever delayed it or thought about just keeping him intact. I think part of it has been being around un-altered dogs all the time at Schutzhund and seeing that it really is manageable, even with intact males and females in the same house.


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## dagwall

Just FYI nosework is under its own organization, NACSW, and they do not require you to spay/neuter. I believe barn hunts are the same.


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## packetsmom

dagwall said:


> Just FYI nosework is under its own organization, NACSW, and they do not require you to spay/neuter. I believe barn hunts are the same.


That IS good to know, since it's one of the other activities I was interested in. It looks like, as long as we gave up wanting a CGC or any rally or obedience titles, Sam could keep his manhood.  It does seem "funny" to me, though, that they do allow any purebred, regardless of their breedability, to compete intact. I understand their desire to promote responsible pet ownership, but I don't think that always means speutering and even where it does, I think it applies regardless of breed or mix. A LOT of mixes are the result of two purebred dogs accidentally breeding, which something like this does nothing to help.


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## elrohwen

A seminar certainly won't require him to be neutered or even ask. To register him yes, he needs to be neutered. I kind of doubt you would be wanting to get him in a ring much earlier than 18-24 months anyway so I don't think it should rush you. 

I'm not a fan of the neutering policy. I've considered getting an English shepherd but they are not recognized and I would have to get the dog neutered to compete. I've heard the CKC at least lets non-recognized purebred to remain intact, assuming you might want to trial and then breed it.


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## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> I'm not a fan of the neutering policy. I've considered getting an English shepherd but they are not recognized and I would have to get the dog neutered to compete. I've heard the CKC at least lets non-recognized purebred to remain intact, assuming you might want to trial and then breed it.


One of the people I train with is going through this issue currently with her non-neutered Dutch Shepherd as they aren't recognized by the AKC? She is able to all the UKC events with him since I guess they are recognized by UKC, but sucks that she can't do AKC with the rest of us.


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## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> A seminar certainly won't require him to be neutered or even ask. To register him yes, he needs to be neutered. I kind of doubt you would be wanting to get him in a ring much earlier than 18-24 months anyway so I don't think it should rush you.
> 
> I'm not a fan of the neutering policy. I've considered getting an English shepherd but they are not recognized and I would have to get the dog neutered to compete. I've heard the CKC at least lets non-recognized purebred to remain intact, assuming you might want to trial and then breed it.


That's my problem with koolies. I don't want to spend $2000+ importing then bring over a dog to neuter it. Especially when the breed population in the US is so low. I feel like if you bring over a dog, it NEEDS to be bred if it's quality. But AKc is the game around here for agility.

You could always wait to compete and breed the dog young but then it'd be unproven. And blagh. It's annoying.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

kadylady said:


> One of the people I train with is going through this issue currently with her non-neutered Dutch Shepherd as they aren't recognized by the AKC? She is able to all the UKC events with him since I guess they are recognized by UKC, but sucks that she can't do AKC with the rest of us.


Tell her to register through AKC's Foundation Stock Service, they are recognized there now. And you don't have to neuter going through that. 

http://www.akc.org/breeds/fss_breeds.cfm

http://www.akc.org/breeders/fss/index.cfm

http://www.akc.org/reg/fss_faqs.cfm


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## MrsBoats

With Cynosports (USDAA,) mixes do not need to be neutered in order to be registered. They have taken over APDT Rally and of course, have their agility. APDT rally is a lot of fun...more fun than AKC rally.


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## Kyllobernese

For AAC Agility in Canada they do not have to be neutered or spayed. I compete with Remmy who is not neutered and Lucy who is not spayed yet.


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## Laurelin

I wish USDAA would take off more here. But right now there are only 2-3 trials a year in the state.


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## kadylady

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Tell her to register through AKC's Foundation Stock Service, they are recognized there now. And you don't have to neuter going through that.


I have no idea what the details are but apparently there are some issues or something I think involving the breed club?? I don't really know anything, just hear snippets of conversation, but they have people working on it. All I know is it sounds SUPER confusing! lol


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## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> That's my problem with koolies. I don't want to spend $2000+ importing then bring over a dog to neuter it. Especially when the breed population in the US is so low. I feel like if you bring over a dog, it NEEDS to be bred if it's quality. But AKc is the game around here for agility.
> 
> You could always wait to compete and breed the dog young but then it'd be unproven. And blagh. It's annoying.


Completely agree. If someone has a nice dog of a rare breed who is doing well in competition and fits the breed standard, it should hopefully stay intact for possible breeding. Why make the gene pool smaller? I guess you could freeze semen, but that doesn't help owners of females.

I've considered a koolie too (though the importing thing put me off) and crossed them off for the same reason.


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## Finkie_Mom

packetsmom said:


> That IS good to know, since it's one of the other activities I was interested in. It looks like, as long as we gave up wanting a CGC or any rally or obedience titles, Sam could keep his manhood.  It does seem "funny" to me, though, that they do allow any purebred, regardless of their breedability, to compete intact. I understand their desire to promote responsible pet ownership, but I don't think that always means speutering and even where it does, I think it applies regardless of breed or mix. A LOT of mixes are the result of two purebred dogs accidentally breeding, which something like this does nothing to help.


You can still get a CGC - dogs don't have to be registered for that. You would just pick the option once you pass to have the certificate mailed to you for $8 versus having it added as a title (for AKC registered dogs) for $20


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## dagwall

Finkie_Mom said:


> You can still get a CGC - dogs don't have to be registered for that. You would just pick the option once you pass to have the certificate mailed to you for $8 versus having it added as a title (for AKC registered dogs) for $20


Haha, that reminds me I never did get around to mailing in Jubel's paperwork to get the CGC certificate. He passed the test and that's good enough for me.


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## CoverTune

Laurelin said:


> That's my problem with koolies. I don't want to spend $2000+ importing then bring over a dog to neuter it. Especially when the breed population in the US is so low. I feel like if you bring over a dog, it NEEDS to be bred if it's quality. But AKc is the game around here for agility.
> 
> You could always wait to compete and breed the dog young but then it'd be unproven. And blagh. It's annoying.



Psst - did you know there are Koolies in Canada? Two breeders that I know of, and when I was looking, they seemed to be good breeders. Probably cheaper than importing from Australia. Just FYI


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## Hallie

Sam looks look a German Shepherd to me, is he?

If he is purebred but not registered, you can get him registered through AKC's PAL (purebred alternative listing), my Beagle is registered under PAL and I didn't need to supply any proof that she was fixed or anything. They changed the rules a few years ago. It used to be required to provide proof that the dog was altered to get a PAL, but not anymore. 

Some dog shows only permit regular AKC and PAL dogs, no mixed breeds. That's why I registered mine through PAL rather than Canine partners. I started to go through the Canine Partners originally, but it seemed childish and like a game. That was awhile ago, so maybe it's changed.


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## Miss Bugs

> Sam looks look a German Shepherd to me, is he?
> 
> If he is purebred but not registered, you can get him registered through AKC's PAL (purebred alternative listing), my Beagle is registered under PAL and I didn't need to supply any proof that she was fixed or anything. They changed the rules a few years ago. It used to be required to provide proof that the dog was altered to get a PAL, but not anymore.


Sam is a St Bernard X Malinios 

I had people tell me when I wanted to to obedience with Gem, to get her a performance event number as an unregistered pure-bred Heeler..that made me laugh, Gem is mostly white, the size of a GSD and has no tail, trust me, nobody is gonna mistake her for a Heeler lol


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## Laurelin

I know from my AKC agility friends that it is very very very uncommon for AKC agility trials to not allow mixed breeds these days. I think I read somewhere that only 3.5% don't allow them. I still think it's stupid that they haven't just forced the few holdouts to allow them but whatever. I'd never go to a trial that did not allow mixed breeds.


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## kadylady

In browsing premiums for my state for AKC Rally and AKC Agility I have yet to find a trial that doesn't allow All American Dogs if it open to all AKC breeds. There are a couple breed clubs that host trials only open to that breed (I think). My 2 are both registered as All American Dogs in the Canine Partners program, also both registered Limited Privilege with UKC.


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## MrsBoats

The few shows I've seen around here that do not let All Americans play in obedience and rally are the ones that have a conformation show tied to it. Stand alone obedience and rally trials do allow All Americans to compete. The big Cluster they have up in MA during November will allow All Americans to show in agility despite it including conformation with it.


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## Miss Bugs

for Canadians interested, CKC is opening Agility, Obedience and Rally to mix breeds and unrecognised purebreds effective July this year. as I was reading through the applications I was happy to see it addressed a concern people brought up in this thread, unrecognised purebreds do NOT have to be spayed/neutered, you just have to attach a copy of the registration cert. for whatever club the breed IS recognized by. mix breeds still have to be spayed/neutered, but I am not against that lol 

I was excited to hear that, I wanted to do obedience with Gem originally, but there is only 1 club in Canada that allows mix breeds in obedience and it does not exist in western Canada, so I settled for Rally.


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