# Store brand vs Name Brand?



## RoadDog (Aug 22, 2006)

I have always feed my dogs ol roy dog food you get at walmart. they are healthy, shiny, and in great overall condition. But Roady, my gsd, just aint filling out like I think he should. He is shiny and healthy, just doe snot have the mass i think a gsd should. He is only a year old though. could the cheaper food be what the problem is. should I switch to Purena, or another name brand instead? I would like to hear thoughts on this.


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## OwnedBySix (Jun 12, 2006)

I have PMed you since according to the board I am posting 55 images and am only allowed 4, even though all I am trying to post is text.


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

The good ole dog food issue 

I used to feed Eukanuba, a supposed good dog food, and have since found much better brands that aren't significantly higher in cost.

A lot of dogs can be fed a crap food their whole life and do fine. You could never tell. Like you've mentioned, shiny coats, good weight etc.

BUT there are other factors that could happen in a dogs life, and by feeding a higher quality food, you could help avoid these situations totally.

Let's talk ear infections. Many people allow their dogs to swim. A truly healthy dog, will not suffer from ear infections. A dog that's on a higher quality food, will most likely not suffer from this sort of infection.

Also, foods like Iams, Purina and Eukanuba are full of "fillers". Corn meal is one. Corn is not digested by dogs AT ALL, and is just that a filler, it offers no nutritional value to a dog at all. [Look on the ingredients list on a bag of Iams, corn meal is in the top ten!  Talk about a waste of money!]

So, you pay $25 for a 30lb bag of Purina.

I pay $67 for a 33lb bag.

My dogs will eat less of the higher quality food, because there is less filler. Therefore, we are paying basically the same amount for food. Your dogs are eating more. Mine are eating less, of a good high quality food.

Some brands I'd reccomend: Solid Gold, Innova, Fromm, Eagle Pack

Edit: Also, if your planning on switching brands, I would specifically recomend perhaps Eagle Pack. Their forumalas are for "All life stages". With "puppy chows", there is much more fat/protein in those feeds than is ideally desired.


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## luv4gsds (Jul 27, 2006)

You shouldn't allow your shepherd to get to heavy it is better for a shepherd to be on the slim side than the heavy side. Weight puts a lot on their hips and back.


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## Zanzi (Aug 24, 2006)

I agree with Alpha. I once sat down with a vet and had him go through each item listed on the dog food bag to see if it was a filler or if it was something that was actually good for the dog. Quite and eye opening experience!


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Alpha said:


> Let's talk ear infections. Many people allow their dogs to swim. A truly healthy dog, will not suffer from ear infections. A dog that's on a higher quality food, will most likely not suffer from this sort of infection.
> 
> Also, foods like Iams, Purina and Eukanuba are full of "fillers". Corn meal is one. Corn is not digested by dogs AT ALL, and is just that a filler, it offers no nutritional value to a dog at all. [Look on the ingredients list on a bag of Iams, corn meal is in the top ten!  Talk about a waste of money!]
> 
> ...


you mentioned the health aspects of the "quality" of foods....mine have been to the vet for only the things that are necessary......never had one w/ K.C., ear infections, allergies, etc....yes, i have dealt w/ HD (but that has nothing to do w/ the food, unless it was caused by the "high quality" food that i had them on at the time as pups), surgery for a hole in the mouth caused by a stick, and a gash caused by another dog (and this is in 30 yrs of owning dogs).....and they eat Pur. One.....

switching to a food such as a high Purina is alot better than the Ol' Roy....and you mention that yours eat about the same (cost wise) because they eat less......when i put mine on Canidae they were eating 3-4 c of that a day and _just_ maintaining their weight.....on the other (P.O.) they eat 1 1/3 - 2 c a day and have no trouble maintaining weight.....

i would recommend switching but go to Pro Plan if you can (Pur. One at the least)......my GSD that i had 20 yrs ago had the same "weight" problem till i put him on the Pro Plan....SD, Euk, Iams (all of which were considered top foods at the time) didn't do squat for him, even feeding 2x the amount......give it a go and see how he does......


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

You've had good experiences with the food. The few extra dollars is costs me is no problem for us to have the comfort of knowing their eating a good food.

The fact that those products have some ingredients that have been found in the food and aren't on the ingredients list on the bag scares me, and both of my dogs have thrived on the higher end of the road brands.

I have NEVER heard of HD being caused by high quality foods. "Puppy chows" can cause problems in growth, muscles growing too fast, bones not growing fast enough. The "high quality" foods usually don't even have puppy foods, but rather "life stage" formulas.


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## sheplovr (Aug 27, 2006)

As For The Shepherd U Should Not See The Ribs But Feel Them To Your Hands Touch. Keep Kinda On The Lean Side For Better Health, But Not On Old Roy.
I Would Choose Another Brand, It Does Not Need To Be The Most Expensive For Some Of Those Are Worse Than Medium Priced Feed. Pick What You Can Affor, Read The First 3 Or 4 Ingredients And Make Sure They Are Not Fillers, But A Meat Product Of Sorts. At Least The First Two.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Alpha said:


> I have NEVER heard of HD being caused by high quality foods. "Puppy chows" can cause problems in growth, muscles growing too fast, bones not growing fast enough. The "high quality" foods usually don't even have puppy foods, but rather "life stage" formulas.


Alpha, that was meant as a facitious remark....i have never heard of ANY foods causing HD.....however, some "studies" believe that the faster the growth of the pup the more likely it is to exaccerbate a problem as it puts more strain on the joints and when they grow to fast the joints can't always keep up......but that has not ever been proven


as for unlisted ingredients, if the same rules apply to dog foods as to people food there has to be so many "parts per" in order for it to have to be listed....e.g., you have the meat end which has the highest quantity in the food, then each ingredient is listed in order of how many "parts" per ingredient, and a nutritionist once told me that if it falls below a certain amount, the company does not even have to list it (say 2 parts per making it less than 2% of the ingredients)....does that make sense? my uncle used to work in a meat processing plant where they made hot dogs and lunch meats and he told my parents that it was really disgusting because they didn't have to list the rat hair that was in there as it fell below the "parts" requirement......i sure hope they have improved their guidelines since then (this WAS about 40 yrs ago)  i hope i explained this ok.....


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## Ragmop53 (Aug 29, 2006)

Purina One Puppy for my puppy and Purina One for older dogs for our older dog. My vet said "Purina will always be around" 

Take Care Ragmop53


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

> Purina ONE - Total Nutrition Lamb & Rice Formula
> 
> Caution:
> This product is not a "lamb only" formula!
> ...


Taken directly from a dog nutrionist's website:

The Dog Food Project: Purina ONE (Nestle)

The top 10 ingredients are of most importance, and all that corn in the top 10 is just a big waste of money. Your dog can't digest it, it goes in and comes out the same.

The reason she states it isn't a lamb only formula is important. Many dogs are allergic to chicken, and lamb kibble or canned is a route many take next. So for a dog that's allergic and your looking for a lamb only formula, this is NOT the brand for you.


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

> Eagle Pack - Holistic Select Chicken
> 
> Ingredients:
> Chicken meal, ground brown rice, oatmeal, chicken fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid), anchovy & sardine meal, pork meal, dried beet pulp, whole ground barley, tomato pomace, dried egg product, flaxseed, canola oil, dried apples, cheese meal, dried carrots, air dried peas, sun-cured alfalfa, salt, potassium chloride, quinoa (organic), inulin, glucosamine hydrochloride, dried cranberries, dried blueberries, beta-carotene, dandelion (organic), garlic, dl-methionine, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, riboflavin supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin supplement, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, ascorbic acid, biotin, rosemary extract, inositol, dehydrated kelp, polysaccharide complexes (sequestered) of zinc, iron, manganese, copper and cobalt, potassium iodate, sodium selenite, yucca schidigera extract, lactobacillus acidophilus, enterococcus faecium, b. subtillus, bacillus lichenformis, bacillus coagulins, aspergillus oryzae and aspergillus niger
> ...


Also taken from the website.

You won't find corn anywhere in there


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

For Roaddog, Ol'Roy ingredients list, you didn't say what formula, so I'll just post Ol'Roy "High Pro" formula:



> Ol' Roy - High Pro
> 
> Ingredients:
> Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, wheat middlings, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), chicken by-product meal, rice, animal digest, salt, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, vitamin E supplement, niacin, copper sulafate, manganous oxide, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, menadione sodium bisulfite (complex source of vitamin K), calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, cobalt carbonate, folic acid, sodium selenite
> ...


The Dog Food Project: Ol' Roy


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Ragmop53 said:


> Purina One Puppy for my puppy and Purina One for older dogs for our older dog. My vet said "Purina will always be around"
> 
> Take Care Ragmop53



i don't feed my pups adult foods past 4 mo and stop even b/4 that in some instances.....sometimes right after weaning......

and yes Purina will most likely always be around, just as all the others will be.....


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## yooper_at_heart (Aug 23, 2006)

Yeah I fed my cocker spaniel Kibbiles N Bits for quite awhile until we found out that it was crap and causing death then we switched to Purina until he died at the age of 12 1/2. We got a puppy and were feeding him Purina Puppy but I read some of the threads in this forum and became educated in by-products and healtheir brands we're switching to Eagle Pack.


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## opokki (May 30, 2006)

Alpha said:


> all that corn in the top 10 is just a big waste of money. Your dog can't digest it, it goes in and comes out the same.


I hear this frequently but I don't agree that dogs can't digest corn. I don't have anything against ground corn as a source of carbohydrates but I prefer not to see it as a source of protein (corn gluten meal). My opinion of corn as an ingredient is very similar to what I've quoted below.

Quoted from: The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?


> First of all, there is no truth to the claim that corn is a "bad ingredient" per se. Unless an individual dog is sensitive or allergic to corn, it is no better and no worse than other cereal grains, as long as it is used as a source of carbohydrates and not as a main source of protein, especially in combination with excessive use of corn gluten meal as another main ingredient. If you'd like to see a comparison of nutrients in corn and rice, please click here
> 
> There are quality foods out there that do contain corn and many dogs do very well on them. What makes a difference is whether the manufacturer uses "feed grade" corn and/or corn fragments or quality USDA graded or organic corn. Personally I would choose a product that contains high quality corn over one that contains other, lower quality grains. Just to name a few, Eagle Pack, Back to Basics, Wysong and Timberwolf Organics are a few brands that include corn in some of their formulas, yet they are high quality kibbles.


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## Ragmop53 (Aug 29, 2006)

You can't measure good or bad dogfood for longivity or health. A dogs gut is the same gut as his ancestors and is strong as a rock! My puppy eats any and all things sticks, dirt, my garden veggies, clothes, he'd rather drink muddy water than fresh, that's just the animal in him. My puppy will be on puppy food for two years.
Feed your dogs what you want to feed them, their yours! My dogs are healthy, loved, family members in our house, what more could they ask for. As I'm sure you all love your pets.
Take care Ragmop53


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

thank you "opokki" and "ragmop53", i was beginning to feel alone in this thought process actually.....how can people explain the "crappiness" of any dog food when i have known many dogs that have lived well past "normal" age span and never ate anything but Purina Dog Chow.....i still say if it works for your dog and your dog is in good health then where's the problem?....."if it ain't broke, don't fix it"......if you feel that your dog could do better on something else or is always sick on what you are feeding change and find something that works (and sometimes you may find that, like in my case, they do the best on the so called "crappy" dog food [Canidae vs. Pur. One])


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## kelkat (Aug 30, 2006)

Two things: 1 does the dog food really make that big of a difference and if so, wouldn't it be better to feed them scrapes from the table so that they get a well balanced meal each day?

2. We are on a budget and have 4 medium/large dogs. What is the best least expensive food out there?


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## LGSD (Sep 6, 2006)

Thank you all (Alpha) for this, this is what I been looking for, information on what to look for.
Right being in the UK I dont seem to be able to find Eagle Pack, I really want to have a go at that.. anyone know how?


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## LGSD (Sep 6, 2006)

Alpha said:


> Also taken from the website.
> 
> You won't find corn anywhere in there


what are`there website?


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## LGSD (Sep 6, 2006)

Alpha said:


> Also taken from the website.
> 
> You won't find corn anywhere in there


Found it, but what is Ground Yellow Corn as that is in the puppy food.


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## kelkat (Aug 30, 2006)

My dog will eat the sunflower seeds I put out for the squirrels. With a taste like that, it's hard to shell out good money for actual food.


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## TinyStar (Aug 29, 2006)

Dog food is dog food is dog food. You can go in circles arguing about it all day but it comes down to this: if you're feeding your dogs the best food you can without sacrificing things for yourself or your family, then you're doing your job in my book.


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

LGSD said:


> Found it, but what is Ground Yellow Corn as that is in the puppy food.


I don't think you read my whole post and understood. I meant, there is not corn anywhere, in the food that I feed. ANYWHERE. There is NO Ground Yellow Corn, in Eagle Pack's, HOlistic Chicken Select formula. I"ve got the bag right in front of me.


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## MAX (Sep 12, 2006)

*Read the Labels*

I always read the ingredients labels on foods I eat and that is how I started buying Flint River Ranch Dog food and treats. This food is classified as "human grade" and has all natural quality ingredients.

*Content Removed*

PS in a jam when I need to buy at a store I prefer Nutro (same reason - quality ingredients)


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## imjennwhoareyou (Sep 10, 2006)

I really like Nutro. If my dog wasnt on prescription food than he would still be on it. I dont recomment Purina or Pedigree or any of those commercialized dog foods. They spend alot of their money on advertising and they have a lot of fillers in their food. I know a lot of vets recommend Science Diet, but then again alot of vets are sponsored by science diet too so I dont like it as much.


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## Shelly_236 (Aug 15, 2006)

Can any of these brands you guys are recommending (Innova, Eagle Pack) be found at regular pet stores, like PetSmart or a grocery store? I don't remember seeing them anywhere and I might like to give them a try.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Well, PetCo sells Natural Balance. As far as the rest, I've heard of SOME select PetsMarts and PetCos choosing to sell a few of them, but it's very uncommon. Your best bet would be to find a small, privately-owned pet supply store. Flip through your phone book and you may find a few of them. >^_^<

EDIT:
Max, I am assuming that is your webpage, judging by your username. Advertising for personal gain is not allowed on this forum.


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## MAX (Sep 12, 2006)

"Assume a virtue, if you have it not"


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