# Taste of the Wild Issues



## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey guys,

I just joined. And today/ yesterday I had the scare of my life with my Pap peeing blood. The vet said that it is possible it was caused by the food and I was wondering if anyone has had that issue? He's on special food now, but I just wanted to hear some other experiences with it. My cat is also on the food and he has gained wait but now I'm very concerned. 

My pooch got a build up of feces (though he still went daily) in his intestines, which caused crystals and bacterial infection, therefore small stones in his bladder. She said it was probably the food. 

Need people to discuss with, my family doesnt understand all my rantings.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Did he say HOW "it was probably caused by the food"?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

A build up of feces causes bladder issues? Never heard that one before. How can bacteria get from the anal area to the penis in a male dog? Quite a distance to travel.

A bacterial infection caused alkaline urine which allows crystals to develop in the urine from normal minerals present. Guess the crystals formed into irritating stones too. If the urine is concentrated because the dog isn't drinking enough crystals are more likely to precipitate out as well and feeding dry food means the dog needs to drink more than if he eats wet food.

Here is an article that may help.
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html

Treating the stones by making sure he takes in lots of water and treating the infection with the appropriate antibiotic and doing the recheck after the antibiotic is finished should resolve the issue unless the stones are a metabolic issue where a special diet is best - see the other articles on that website.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

maybe the vet meant that the food was the culprit, but it caused 2 different reactions in your dog. One was the urine issue, the other was the fecal issue.

And sorry this has happened to you. I've never seen a dog pee blood. I do have a dog that developed GI issues while on TOTW,but i have no real proof that it was specifically the TOTW that caused the issues. DOg was treated for h.pylori but vets also treated for food allergy/intolerance. they were stumped so treated for 2 different things. anyway it spooked me enough that I no longer feed TOTW.

fwiw on another board that I frequent a poster claims that her/his vet felt that TOTW food caused her dog to get very sick. I've no idea about the truth of the claim.


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

Sorry I wasn't clear. I just realized part of my post made little sense. I was up really late cleaning up and studying. You are right, two different issues developed. I think a part of it was also that the food was staying in his body longer, which assisted with the whole bacteria build up. But I had no clue this was happening because he went daily right after his meals. It was solid, small and had little odor. Which is the report a lot of people who feed TOTW give. So I assumed it was a positive thing. Until they did the x-rays yesterday and had to give his a shot to clean out his intestinal tract and re do them. The same thing is going on with my cat though, with the small feces. So I think I'm going to switch his food as well just to be safe. What do you think?

Thank you Kathy for the website. I'm looking at it now. He's actually on a special food, antibiotics, pain meds and some vitamins. So hopefully he feels better in a bit.


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## puppylove0626 (Apr 23, 2012)

Wow this has me scared. I put Daisy on TOTW because of a suspected food allergy and I wanted a good grain free one.she seems to be doing well on it.any suggestions on another grain free kibble?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

puppylove0626 said:


> Wow this has me scared. I put Daisy on TOTW because of a suspected food allergy and I wanted a good grain free one.she seems to be doing well on it.any suggestions on another grain free kibble?


If she's doing well on it, don't freak out. There's probably not a food in the world that is optimum for every dog out there (or cat) Small solid stools means that the dog is able to use the food and it's not all coming out the other end. There are a number of things that could be going on that have nothing to do with what one is feeding. I would guess that peeing blood has to do with stones or an untreated infection. Lots of reasons a dog's digestive track slows down - pancreas, bacterial overgrowth, etc. And some dogs just have allergies/intolerances to certain ingredients. If that's the case, yes, look for another food. But not just because someone else had a problem with it. Their dog is not your dog.


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## puppylove0626 (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks,I put her on this brand because she was having alot of ear issues and scratching. That has all improved greatly in the short time she was on the grain free. Her stool is a little, softer than normal but that could be. Because it's the Pacific one. I think I will try the high prairie next time.


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

puppylove0626 said:


> Thanks,I put her on this brand because she was having alot of ear issues and scratching. That has all improved greatly in the short time she was on the grain free. Her stool is a little, softer than normal but that could be. Because it's the Pacific one. I think I will try the high prairie next time.


Soft stools can also be caused by overfeeding. If you switched from a grain inclusive food to a grain free food you would most likely need to cut back on their food intake.


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## puppylove0626 (Apr 23, 2012)

Actually that was another question I had is how much of this are you feeding your dogs are you following the guide lines on the package? Daisy is an active 60lb dog and 3cups dont seem like enough.I have been giving her alot more.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I've had zero issues with TotW in the 2-3 years my two have been on it. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all food out there though. I tried them on another food before when I was broke (Nature's Recipe), and after they had been on it for about a month, they got explosive bloody diarrhea. Switched them back to TotW and the problem went away. I tried it one more time a few months later when I was again hard up for cash, and I got the same explosive results. Some dogs just don't do well on certain foods. And I heard from others how well their dogs did on Nature's Recipe, but mine just couldn't handle that stuff.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

puppylove0626 said:


> Actually that was another question I had is how much of this are you feeding your dogs are you following the guide lines on the package? Daisy is an active 60lb dog and 3cups dont seem like enough.I have been giving her alot more.


I have an active 55lb dogs that would eat about 1 1/4 cup of totw a day.

Your dogs oft stool is probably over feeding related.


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## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

puppylove0626 said:


> Actually that was another question I had is how much of this are you feeding your dogs are you following the guide lines on the package? Daisy is an active 60lb dog and 3cups dont seem like enough.I have been giving her alot more.


Sounds like way too much food of the TOTW for her size.


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## Choccy (Apr 23, 2012)

My youngest lab Toby cannot eat kibble at all, so I switched him to the BARF diet. And im happy to report Toby and his poo are the picture of health.


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## puppylove0626 (Apr 23, 2012)

katielou said:


> I have an active 55lb dogs that would eat about 1 1/4 cup of totw a day.
> 
> Your dogs oft stool is probably over feeding related.


When I give the 3 cups that it says on the bag she whines for more later. I guess I will try to cut her down and see what happens..I was feeding her twice a day. Or maybe ill give her some cooked veggies for a treat later in the day.thanks.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

puppylove0626 said:


> Wow this has me scared. I put Daisy on TOTW because of a suspected food allergy and I wanted a good grain free one.she seems to be doing well on it.any suggestions on another grain free kibble?


I feed NVI (natures variety instinct) beef/ lamb with Stella & chewy's patties right now but itsnt one of the cheaper foods but it IS a really good food. www.dogfoodadvisor.com is a good place to start if you want to switch, I have fed Merrick's before grain line as well as their earthborn holistic & their 4 star entrees (those aren't grain free tho), grains aren't nessessarily a bad thing just as long as a names source of meat MEAL is the first or second ingredient. 

For more info check the link I posted, then bookmark it, even I still use it .


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

We have had great results with TOTW. The biggest issue with dogs, is that they eat anything. are you positive your pup didn't get a hold of something else? 

Also, I am a very frequent dog park visitor, and for a while we had to stop going because Delilah was getting bloody and runny stools...turns out she was picking up a virus there and every time we went it exasperated it. My first vet jumped to food automatically, then I went to a Holistic Vet, things were drastically different and after a few blood tests ,we found a viral issue.


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

I've been feeding TOTW several types for 3yrs now and I haven't had any issues either. I agree not every food is for every dog. I tried a variety of foods and settled with TOTW because the value is good,the quality is good. Now I've been adding 4healths Salmon and Potato and it seems to be fine.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

katielou said:


> I have an active 55lb dogs that would eat about 1 1/4 cup of totw a day.


Really? Sydney gets almost 1 cup totw per day at 20 pounds. Metabolisms are strange, lol

(Btw, I'm not trying to suggest the OP shouldn't cut down on feedings...with loose stools cutting down portion sizes is the first thing I'd try.)


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## puppylove0626 (Apr 23, 2012)

According to the guide lines on the totw pacific stream bag for a 40-60lb dog its 2 1/3 -3 1/4 cups daily. I know this is just a guide line and every dog is different. I think I will give her 3 cups once a day instead of twice like I was doing and see how. Things go.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

puppylove0626 said:


> According to the guide lines on the totw pacific stream bag for a 40-60lb dog its 2 1/3 -3 1/4 cups daily. I know this is just a guide line and every dog is different. I think I will give her 3 cups once a day instead of twice like I was doing and see how. Things go.


You were giving her 6 cups of food per day? That is way too much. I find that the recommendations are actually pretty overstated and your average dog will actually need *less* food than it says to give. If you aren't already, I would start feeding her at least twice a day (1.5 cups at each meal) to manage her hunger. I would be hungry if I only ate one meal a day too. How does her weight look? If she's been eating 6 cups a day for a while I'd be very surprised if she wasn't overweight.

I don't know what breed your dog is, but for reference:


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

I have a 50 pound dog who gets 1-1 1/2 cups 2x a day of ToTW. She very well would LOVE to eat more (she was fed two cups a day) but she's on a diet!

The guidelines on the bags are a gross over-estimate in my opinion and MOST dogs will eat anything you put in front of them if given the chance.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Penny (50 pounds) only gets 2 cups a day, Toby (85 pounds) gets 3 cups a day, and Moose (110 pounds) gets 4 cups a day. They are old and not terribly active anymore, so I would expect a young active dog to need more than that. But not that much! Mine would all eat an entire bag if given the chance, so you can't really go by how hungry the dog acts, you have to go by their body condition.

Starting with the recommendation on the bag is good. Then if the dog begins to look chunky, cut back a bit. If the dog looks skinny, add a bit more. But only increase or decrease a little at a time.


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm happy with all the conversation. Personally I'm hoping to be able to change him back to normal food. They put him on the Royal Canin Vet diet until he is better and then they're going to give advice about keeping him on it or otherwise. But I would like him back on normal food because since he has not has a solid bowl movement, it is also really small and he seems to be having more trouble than before. I'm giving it some time in hopes it'll get better since he needs to eat it until the next vet visit. And with all the vets always pushing meds, special food and a lot of people saying they have such poor experience with things, I feel so unsure with everything because I don't know if I can trust that what the vet says is correct. The first conclusion was to accuse me of free feeding and I've never believed in free feeding a dog and I felt like I was being attacked by the nurse for killing my dog or something. He's only 6, I want him to just have a happy next 10 years or so.


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

If your dog is not getting better with the change of food then it wasn't food related to start with IMO. What testing have they done to make sure there isn't a blockage because to me that's what it sounds like. And I think most will agree the vet diets are usually not very good quality so I would either go back to TOTW or I would check out something else and then ask the vet about testing or maybe its time for a new vet.


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

I didn't go to the regular vet (though I was planning on trying a new one anyways). It was a Saturday and for some reason all the vets around here are closed except the hospitals and emergency clinics. I went to the animal hospital and they did a urine culture and some x-rays. After the nurse went at me saying I was free feeding him (which I dont), the vet said that she'd had issues with dogs on that brand that they have a lot of crystals in their system and it forms stones. Then said to feed him this food that's for urinary problems. He is on medication and is better, no more blood in urine, but I'm not liking that his bowl movements are not fully formed and it is very small. They sold me a 17lb bag, saying he might have to stay on this food forever, which I didnt have a problem with if it might turn into a recurring thing, but he doesnt seem to be doing good on the food as far as his bowl movements go, so when he does the follow up visit I will have to discuss with her other options and the possible cause.


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

When feeding kibble, it's important to wet it, at least a little. I've read that not doing so can dehydrate the dog as its system tries to hydrate the dry food. It's like a human eating freeze dried food without reconstituting it. I always wet my dog's food - enough to make a tiny bit of gravy, but not so that the kibble is swimming in water.

If the OP's dog was fed 6 c. per day, that is a LOT! TOTW is very nutrient dense, and it wouldn't take much to be an adequate amount, especially for a small dog (seen in the picture). I feed my 13 pound minipoo 1/2 per day; no more than 2/3 c., for sure.

As an aside, TOTW is made by Diamond foods, which has undergone a volutary recall recently. I hop the OP didn't get a bad batch. Other foods made by Diamond include Solid Gold, Natural Balance, 4Health (Tractor Supply brand), and the house brand for Cosco (don't remember the name).


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

georgiapeach said:


> When feeding kibble, it's important to wet it, at least a little. I've read that not doing so can dehydrate the dog as its system tries to hydrate the dry food. It's like a human eating freeze dried food without reconstituting it. I always wet my dog's food - enough to make a tiny bit of gravy, but not so that the kibble is swimming in water.
> 
> -*Dry kibble is very dry but you do not have to wet your dogs kibble to eat it. A dog on dry kibble will drink 2-3 times more water so it is important to never keep water from your dog and to always make sure that the water available to them is fresh and clean. As well as cleaning their water bowl. If your dog is eating mush it can actually be harmful to their dental hygiene (something to think about).*
> 
> ...


Responses of mine are bolded.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

georgiapeach said:


> If the OP's dog was fed 6 c. per day, that is a LOT! TOTW is very nutrient dense, and it wouldn't take much to be an adequate amount, especially for a small dog (seen in the picture). I feed my 13 pound minipoo 1/2 per day; no more than 2/3 c., for sure.


I think another person came and asked a question in the middle of the thread so the person feeding 6 cups was not the OP, but someone with a lab. God, could you imagine a _papillon_ eating that much!!?? The food would probably weigh more than her. ;p



Niraya said:


> If your dog is eating mush it can actually be harmful to their dental hygiene (something to think about).


I don't agree with this. Kibble does not clean a dog's teeth anymore than cereal clean's a child's teeth. The only thing that will do that is regular brushing, regular chewing on raw meaty bones or regular dental cleanings. I've actually seen dry kibble mashed between Sydney's lip and back teeth, but that has never happened when she was eating canned or wetted down kibble. While I don't think it's always necessary, wetting your dog's kibble will do them no harm, and might do some good.


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

Niraya said:


> Responses of mine are bolded.


I agree with the bold. Please make sure that you include all information when talking about a recall. If I was a new dog owner and read the other post(not in bold) I would've thought OMG my dog got bad food. Not saying that it couldn't have happened,if the food wasn't stored properly it could've went bad.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

kafkabeetle said:


> I don't agree with this. Kibble does not clean a dog's teeth anymore than cereal clean's a child's teeth. The only thing that will do that is regular brushing, regular chewing on raw meaty bones or regular dental cleanings. I've actually seen dry kibble mashed between Sydney's lip and back teeth, but that has never happened when she was eating canned or wetted down kibble. While I don't think it's always necessary, wetting your dog's kibble will do them no harm, and might do some good.


Did I say somewhere that it cleaned teeth?  I said it can be harmful (maybe I should have put is has the possibility of being harmful) but nowhere did I say it cleaned teeth. I've never read it doing any good to wet it down (aside from weaning pups) and I've never heard a benefit of it unless you have a dog with no teeth. Ive seen dogs with more wet food stuck between teeth than dry but i dont believe its not possible. Though if you have information on it I'd love to read it so I don't provide the wrong information


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