# First puppy - First two days



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Hi guys,

Like most google-happy puppy owners, I'm tired and frustrated. My new eight-week old puppy who I just brought home yesterday is probably acting normally, but this is my first experience with a puppy so I'll describe what's going on.

He is a shepherd/cattle dog mix named Astro. He's very sweet and absolutely adorable. Well, aside from that, he's obviously not housebroken (we're currently working on that with trips outside every 1-2 hours and making a HUGE deal about his outdoor potties with treats). When he goes in the house, we've tried the clapping and taking him outside method. He usually just stares at us outside and won't pee or poop beyond what he already left on the carpet. 

The dilemma here comes with the crating/exercise pen. We've been using the exercise pen on the kitchen linoleum as his "area" where we can safely leave him while we go to work. This week my wife and I are staggering our hours so he's never alone more then 5-ish hours. Well, it seems as if he hates his exercise pen. 

I understand why. I really do. His world is upside down. He misses his brother, who he had with him at the foster family's house, and he misses the foster family. The foster family kept him and his brother in a short exercise pen in a corner of the house with towels down. Last night he seemed more comfortable peeing in the exercise pen than outside. Sleeping in it overnight seemed to REALLY help that.

We set up the exercise pen in our room about a foot from my side of the bed last night around 9:30. We put his crate and toys and a big beach towel in the pen and guided him into it. He whined, barked, and cried for maybe 3-4 minutes before winding down and going to sleep. I got up at about 1am and 4am to take him out. He went outside each time with a small accident on the way out at 1am. I still considered it a victory. 

This morning my wife and I, having to go to work, set his exercise pen back up in the kitchen with all of his toys, blankets, and crate. We put him in there when I left so my wife could finish getting ready. He howled and cried. She took him out and he eliminated then she put him back in after. He seemed to stop as she exited the house, as she told me. Well I got home at about noon (she leaves at about 7:15). He did pee on one of the towels so i put it in the laundry and cleaned up the linoleum with some enzyme-based cleaner. I took him outside and he eliminated. Party of course. 

Now as the day goes on, I just can't be 100% playing with him/watching him. He's too little to take on a walk, really (not to mention he isn't leash trained) and he gets so tired playing with me that he just ends up growling and kind of self-imploding after while. So I take him outside and have him go potty, praise him, then bring him into his exercise pen (I've done this cycle twice now). He whines and howls for a few minutes before falling asleep.

Should I be subjecting him to this in the first few days? Am I creating negative associations with the exercise pen, his new house, and myself? I physically have to lift him into the exercise pen because he won't go in on his own. 

I know all of this has most likely been answered. I don't think this is a unique situation by a long shot. But I really want Astro to love his new home and be well-adjusted and comfortable. It's just not plausible for me to constantly be playing him into the ground and then NOT put him somewhere to sleep peacefully while I get some work done.

Any wise words would help. I'm just a tired man right now.


----------



## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

You really seem to be on the right track with potty training. (The reason he doesn't go outside when you interrupt him is because you interrupted him and he forgot what he was doing. But still do it so he knows that fully eliminating in the house is a no no.)

As for his Xpen, have you tried playing in there with him? Having it as a place where only he goes is a veru strange concept to a puppy used to doing everything alongside his siblings. I don't know how to post a link from my phone, but kikopup has a nice video on YouTube called "how to train your dog to like being left alone" or something to that affect which might be helpful.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

blenderpie said:


> As for his Xpen, have you tried playing in there with him? Having it as a place where only he goes is a veru strange concept to a puppy used to doing everything alongside his siblings. I don't know how to post a link from my phone, but kikopup has a nice video on YouTube called "how to train your dog to like being left alone" or something to that affect which might be helpful.


Haha actually yes. I tried that a bit earlier. He ended up taking all of his toys and stacking them about 5 feet outside the pen. I will give it a shot later on with the door shut.


----------



## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

1-2 hours seems a lottle long for such a young pup, I would take him out every 20 min


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

zeronightfarm said:


> 1-2 hours seems a lottle long for such a young pup, I would take him out every 20 min


I tried that for awhile but he would mostly just sit there staring at me or eating grass. About an hour seems to be his sweet spot, or 2 hours if he's been napping; both entirely depending on recent water intake.


----------



## linzid83 (Oct 15, 2012)

I too am a first time dog owner who works full time and i live alone, apart from Mylo! 

My grandparents take Mylo for 2/3 hours everyday while i'm out, but otherwise I have a set routine that we stick to and that seems to have worked for Mylo. I was dubious about crate training to begin with but its the best thing i feel i've done. 

I left the crate in the kitchen with the door open and his bed inside it for 3-4 weeks before beginning to lock him in it. I felt this allowed him to get used to the crate and be comfortable with it before locking him in. While the door was open i used newspaper on the floor at the other end of the kitchen to allow him an area to go in if he needed to. The paper then got moved closer and closer to the door in an attempt to encourage him to go to the door to tell me he needed out. 

Anyway, our daily routine began when Mylo was 10 weeks old. I get up and let him out at the same time everyday, even weekends (7am!), after he's been out he then gets breakfast while i shower. After breakfast we have a wee walk around the park, come home and play tug of war. I then let him out again before calling him in and telling him 'bed'. Once he's in bed he gets a biscuit and I lock the door and leave for work. After work he is let out of the crate and taken for a walk around the park again, following that he has dinner and then we play with rope, ball, squeaker! He's usually tired by this point so he will have a wee sleep and I can get some chores or work done then when he comes to life again we play for a bit then we have another walk before bed time. 
I try to keep the routine as much as possible so that the dog knows what is happening. 

Thats just my tuppence worth and what I did but every dog is different!!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

My wife got home about an hour ago and after she changed we spent about 30 minutes playing together with him in his exercise pen. All he really wanted to do was sit in our laps and chew his rope bone. We then played a little more around the house and took him outside for an elimination. Now he's back in the exercise pen and whining a little bit, but NOTHING compared to before. I suspect he'll be sleeping in no time. 

Am I damaging our bond by doing this?


----------



## linzid83 (Oct 15, 2012)

what is an exercise pen? 

i dont think you're damaging your bond at all. When Mylo was crying i ignored him, with the theory in mind that if you go to him when he cries, he'll do it all the time for attention. I think as long as you are praising him and using a friendly voice with him he will associate you with fun and good times.

I'm no expert though!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

http://i.imgur.com/jvzHt.jpg
Here's Astro. I tried to sneak up on him but he awoke a little when I took the picture.


----------



## linzid83 (Oct 15, 2012)

he is gorgeous!!what type is he?? i assume thats the exercise pen he's in and the crate is within that?


----------



## linzid83 (Oct 15, 2012)

oh i use a hot water bottle every night to help Mylo settle. He loves the heat!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

That's a great idea. He is in the pen and the crate is inside. He will usually exhaust himself whining and fall asleep on the towel or next to it. Earlier today he even went into his crate and slept.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

If he's only crying for 5 min or so, I think you're doing fine! I consider my pup to be doing well and he still has episodes of crying in his crate because he'd rather be out playing than locked up. I would worry if it starts to go for long periods of time. I met some people last night whose puppy cries for 3+ hours when they leave her alone. So it could be worse!

First, I would learn how to stuff kongs. I started with just some peanut butter spread around the inside because he wasn't that excited about treats or kibble yet. Now that he works for food, I spread some peanut butter in, then put in a soft treat and a couple pieces of kibble (I like the kong bone for this, because the holes are small and can fit only a couple pieces of food - the larger kongs work better if you want to feed the whole meal in there, which is also an option). With something to occupy himself, you'll find he'll calm down much more quickly. Toys are good, but not as good as a project like a kong.

Second, definitely play crate games with him. Kikopup has some videos and there are others online. At least once a day I work with my pup on entering the crate, exiting the crate, and sitting quietly while I open and close the door and walk away. Sure, he still cries sometimes when I actually leave because I don't have the luxury of staying home from work for 3 weeks and building up from 10sec to 3 hours. However, he's been much better since he learned to see the crate as a game and a place to earn rewards, rather than a place he is only shut in when I leave.

Try those, and time, and I think your pup will adjust. Just don't cave to the whining! If he whines for 5 min and you run into the room to comfort him, he's just learned that he has to whine for at least 5 min to get your attention and he can escalate from there. Last night we put puppy in his crate, then my husband came back downstairs to grab some water. Puppy started crying and we had to sit quietly on the stairs where he couldn't see us for a couple minutes until he stopped. It was annoying because we just wanted to go to bed, and it's hard to hear him cry, but we had to be patient and avoid rewarding him for barking.

Good luck!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

That is very encouraging! Thank you for the advice!

As of now we have a puppy kong for him. It's the small one so not much fits in it. We put kibble in it yesterday. He basically spun it around with his nose until all the food flew out and then ate it off the floor. We also shoved an ice cube in it and he LOVED that. I think we need to invest in a slightly larger puppy kong and some peanut butter to help keep him occupied. As long as his stomach agrees with it, our adoption counselor suggested freezing a kong full of peanut butter to occupy him for long periods of time.

I am planning to start doing some short crate games today. He already has a very negative view of the XPen from what I can tell, so I may try using the small puppy kennel we have right now to train. I've also begun having play sessions with him inside the Xpen to try and make it seem more positive. My wife and I sat in there playing with him for close to an hour yesterday and I jumped in there with him this morning before I had to leave. He will be spending a lot of time in there, inevitably, as my wife and I both work full-time normal hours. I don't see a great alternative to the pen, as there is a LOT of space in the house for him to hurt himself and make messes. 

The whining is tough. We put him in the pen while we get things done around the house (general cleaning, showering, etc) and also when he gets so tired that he needs to nap but won't do it because we're still around and he just wants to play. He whines for 4-5 minutes then zonks out. He needs to and he won't do it otherwise. Yesterday he even snuck into his open crate for about 30 minutes of napping.

The potty training is encouraging. He hasn't eliminated in the house since yesterday while I was at work for 5 hours. Even then it couldn't have been much. I had a hard time finding the spot on the towel. I am taking him out VERY often though and rewarding him heavily for his eliminations in the yard. So much so that I think he just wants to go out and dribble a little just for treats. I've even caught him assuming his stance and then not peeing at all, then looking for a treat. I didn't reward him for that and he didn't eliminate after so we just went back inside.

Last night was a lot harder than the night before. He slept in 3 hours chunks 2 nights ago but last night he got me up every hour to take a trip outside. He eliminated each time, but it sure wasn't much. I think he was just in it for the treats, but he didn't eliminate in his pen at all. I did have to pick him up to put him back in the XPen each time though. He wouldn't voluntarily walk back and jump in. He'd also cry for a few minutes each time. Yeah, it was a rough night for both my wife and I.

I know all of these turn into long rants, I just am so tired and hoping to high heaven that I am doing the right things for little Astro.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

You can use peanut butter or plaint yogurt as the binder to hold the kibble together. Stuff it, then freeze and it will be much harder for him to get the food out. I definitely wouldn't fill the whole thing with peanut butter though - it's high in fat and could cause tummy upsets. The less PB and the more kibble you can use, the better, as long as he's still interested in it.

Definitely work on the crate games in his pen. Just sit in there and click/treat. Then sit right outside it and click/treat. Even doing just that will help change his view of his pen. Sit outside it, open the gate, and make him wait. If he rushes the gate, close it again. Do this over and over until he realizes that he only gets a treat by sitting quietly in the pen. This is something he should learn within a minute or so - gate opens, I sit, I get a treat! He's not going to remember it the next time you try, but with each session he'll get better. Just keep it fun and keep sessions short. Maybe he can only wait and sit at the gate one time - have a party.

Try to set up a routine for him at night, rather than letting him wake you up, because he may just be doing it for attention. I set a second alarm for 2am at first and we took him out every night. After a week we changed it to 3:00 and now 3:30. If you think he really has to go and isn't crying for attention, make it very business-like. Just take him out, let him go, put him back in, and go to bed. No play or affection and he'll learn that it's boring to go out unless he actually needs to go.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I think I need to pick up one of these clicking devices. I know there's nothing magical about them, but Nikopup seems to make them look like it.

Is it to signal to the pup basically **click* = "What you're doing now is the reason for the treat"* ? I'm not sure I understand the purpose 100%


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

hikeon3 said:


> I think I need to pick up one of these clicking devices. I know there's nothing magical about them, but Nikopup seems to make them look like it.
> 
> Is it to signal to the pup basically **click* = "What you're doing now is the reason for the treat"* ? I'm not sure I understand the purpose 100%


Yes, that's basically all it does. The click predicts the treat, so you can tell the dog he's doing the correct thing in the moment, then deliver the treat a little after and he knows what the treat is for. In experienced dogs, the treat might even come quite far after the action, but the dog knows by the click that a treat is coming.

The reason it seems to be "magic" is that using your voice for the same purpose is so variable. It's impossible to say a word like "yes" exactly the same every time and we also walk around babbling lots of things that the dog has already learned to tune out. The click is such a clear sound and it's easy for your finger to hit the button at the exact right moment (without your brain having to think about which word to use, how to say it, etc before you can actually say "yes").

I'm fairly new to clicker training dogs, but both of my bunnies are clicker trained and if it can work for them, it can work for any animal


----------



## hargyle (Mar 21, 2012)

Your doing fine! Its natural to feel separation at this age .. as mentioned KONGS can be a life saver ... we also fed our pup in his crate and his room to make it a more pleasant place for him - food=good so food+xpen=ok ... for some dogs. Mine it worked wonders! But it all takes time. And he will be better in the long run for all your hard work!


----------



## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

He is so adorable! I love it when dogs lie down with their legs out like little froggies ^_^

Bonding is going to be achieved when you spend time playing, training, feeding, and providing affection for your dog. A balanced dog, however, will also need to learn to be alone. Having him in the ex-pen while you are home will teach him a valuable lesson, and prevent the chance of over-dependence, which can lead to greater issues.
That being said, it's a good idea to have him in the ex-pen anytime you can't supervise him directly, and sometimes maybe just put him in there if you need some quiet time. It's good he doesn't associate the ex-pen to being alone, is what I'm saying. He should have a smaller crate inside so he can have a 'room' or 'safe place'. A lot of dogs find this reassuring especially when they're alone.

When he cries or barks, just ignore him  As you continue playing crate games, and leaving tasty treats in his ex-pen he will associate it as 'his room' or 'special place' and will start going in there on his own.

A good game to play:
Teach him to go to bed or go to his place. Toss treats in, and as he goes in to get them, say the cue word "go to bed!" repeat repeat repeat, until he's constantly going in and out of the ex-pen. When he goes in, then click and treat. Eventually, add in distance. You'll find you're doing this right when he starts going in randomly throughout the day, and looking at you for a treat.

Hope this helps!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

These free downloads may also help: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

1. The whining is normal for about 3 nights and you're doing terrific with only 5 min. of whining.
2. The growling before bed is also normal, just over-tired grumpiness. It's fine.
3. From that one picture, you're doing great. He's a well-adjusted, calm puppy.
4. You can start 10 min. training sessions, if you haven't, yet. Sit, Down, Come, etc.
5. BTW, it sounds like he goes to sleep predictably... You might put his sleeping on "cue" - as he goes to sleep, put him in your lap and whisper "shhh" or "sleep" and gently rub/massage one of his cheeks. When he's asleep, place him in his bed. Later, reinforce the training in his bed, instead of your lap.
6. I kinda recommended against using only peanut butter, instead a mix of peanut butter and kibble, frozen in the Kong. Nothing wrong, just that much peanut butter can risk an upset stomach. Nothing major. Kibble is part of his daily portion of food.
7. Puppies don't progress or learn in a straight line, it's more in cycles, so don't worry if he backtracks a little in a few weeks... he'll go forward a week later.
8. You are doing the right things, keep it up. Keep taking pictures!
9. Click - important to "load" the clicker, so that when you click, he no longer looks at the clicker, he looks for the treat! When he does what you want, then you click. After you click, regardless of what he does afterwards, you treat. Takes a while to get the timing right... amazing training tool when you take the time to learn it.
10.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you guys so much. I'm not normally an emotional dude but this whole experience is really stretching my limits. Its just been my wife and I for over two years so we are used to sleeping soundly and doing whatever we like whenever. We are both dog lovers but neither of us have ever had a puppy. Its quite trying.

I will keep it up with the ignoring him in the pen. My wife doesn't have such a hard time with that. I do.

I'm sure there are a billion more questions I will have each with six different answers. I will try not to make a new thread for each one.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Here's a pic from right now. Astro and daddy watching Sealab in the xpen.
http://imgur.com/hycLX.jpg


----------



## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

Just the fact that your here means you are going to be just fine  You're motivated and aware of your frustrations, which is necessary in parenting. Know that you're not alone, and that puppies are this cute for a reason 

When Astro grows up, and you see how much he looks out for you, and you for him, you may look back and find yourself wanting to do it all over again (with a second dog )


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Another question and I might be thinking too hard about this.

Today I spent almost two hours in his exercise pen with him. I moved it into the living room and just sat with him, petted, gave him chew toys, and let him nap by me for almost an hour while I watched tv and emailed on my phone.

It felt like a great time of bonding and I didn't have to worry about him wandering off and finding an electrical cord or a spot in the dining room to soil. 

Can this get out of hand or unhealthy? Or is it a good idea to spend extended periods in his xpen with him to keep him nearby and not alone during the day?


----------



## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

In terms of the wandering off part, I actually prefer to have gates up, simply cause they need to learn the 'house rules' and having them penned up too long means they don't have that opportunity to 'make mistakes' so you can show them appropriate behaviour.

For example, you mention you worry he will find an electrical cord. When he's out and about (With your supervision) and with a gate up so he's always within sight, if you start seeing him sniff and mouth at electrical cords, you can redirect his behaviour and ask him to chew on something appropriate. This is something that can't be learned in an ex-pen.

If he's comfortable in the ex-pen at this stage, you don't need to spend copious amounts of time in there with him  I would put him in there when you're preparing dinner and can't supervise, when you're taking a shower, and can't supervise, when you're doing laundry and can't supervise - you get the drift  If he's exhibiting anxiety or stress while in the ex-pen try to leave a stuffed kong in there with him whenever you have to put him in there. Eventually he will get used to it.

The other option for supervising is tethering him to you, so he's always in your sight.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Quick update: 
Last night was a WORLD of difference. He whined for maybe 2-3 minutes after we initially got in bed with him in the XPen next to the bed. I set two alarms. 12:00am and 2:45am. He tried to wake me up around 1:15am but I let him whine it out and went back to sleep. 2:45am he had zero problems and back in the XPen with light whimpering and back to sleep. His light whimpering was much less intense and shrill than normal. We actually got a pretty decent night's sleep and he didn't eliminate in his pen at all.

His potty training is making great strides. He's VERY responsive to his treats. I've used both small chunks of chicken and small bits of some treats that he really loves. I wonder sometimes if he drags me outside just to make a quick squirt for a treat. I've caught him faking a potty and looking at me ready for a treat already. What a ham.

Lots of things for us to work on still. This weekend we're going to be trying to introduce him to walking through the house on a leash. I'll be measuring him for a harness today. He doesn't seem to like it being attached to his collar. We're also going to experiment with some different Kong stuffings to see what keeps him busy. today its a mix of Peanut butter and kibble which we froze overnight to occupy him for awhile while my wife is at work this morning. 

We're also looking into some baby gate to keep him in view while we play and maybe puppy-proofing our area a little more. There are too many places he can get into trouble right now. 

He is exhibiting anxious behavior when we leave him alone in the pen. We will try stuffed Kongs to keep him busy, but last night the biggest issue we had was leaving him in the Xpen while we were on the couch relaxing or in the other room cleaning up. He barked almost incessantly with only a few short breaks. I'm continuing to ignore him and only take him out during a quiet period, but as soon as he sees me coming for the gate door he flips out. Once again something I hope will just improve with time.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Yes, the barking will improve with time. I've had my pup for 2 weeks now and at first he hated if I would leave the gated-off kitchen to do things with the rabbits in the dining room. Now, he follows me to the gate and often waits for me to return, but he does it quietly. Sometimes he's even wandered off to amuse himself while I'm in the other room, so ignoring it will make him fuss less.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Your guys' experience is invaluable. Sometimes I have to wonder who has more anxiety. Him or me!


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

I have been enjoying reading these comments as it brings back those first anxious weeks a year ago when we got our puppy. Hang in there....everything does get better.....everything! Our pup was a nipper. Hung from my pants legs. I couldn't walk and really was totally frustrated and in tears sometimes. I thought I had ruined our lives by insisting on getting a pup. My DH was much more relaxed about things. I think the pup just fed off my anxieties. Well, with time and patience things got better. I would like to say it was all the training I tried to do but really, I think our pup just needed time to grow and learn our schedule. One thing great was that I hung a bell by our patio door and took her paw and hit it every time I took her out to go potty. Within just days she learned and still uses that little bell. I do have to admit the little bugger sometimes rings it when she just wants to go out to play but I would rather that than be cleaning up messes. Anyway, relax and enjoy this time.....it really does pass quickly and it will all be worth it!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you for such an encouraging post. Right now it is very frustrating and we both know things will improve. It is difficult to enjoy his puppiness when it is being expressed in the form of inappropriate chewing and separation anxiety!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I'd like to think progress is being made here. (day 5, I have to remind myself).

He LOVES eliminating outside for treats. He has really gotten into the habit of squatting like he is peeing and then doing nothing and just looking at me for a treat. I don't reward him for squats. Only for real potties.

His chewing habits are horrendous but I'm attempting to work on that. I feel like the blind leading the blind in that arena. I keep his white puppy nylabone (which he loves when there's nothing else distracting him) in my pocket to offer to him when he is getting into something he shouldn't be (he loves chewing the carpet and my wife's clothes). It's about 99% ineffective, but I'm not stopping. We have house rules and Astro may learn them sooner or later.

We had an encouraging training session earlier with his exercise pen. I put him in it and closed the door. Walking into the kitchen nearby and making zero eye contact. At 15 seconds with him sitting politely I rewarded him with a nice "Good booooy!" and treat. I assumed the same position and after 30 seconds of him sitting quietly I rewarded him again. Then I walked out of the room for 10 seconds of him being silent. I sounded off from around the corner "Good boooooy!" with a treat following. Did it again for 15 loooong seconds. Once again sounded off from around the corner and followed with a treat. He couldn't quite make it 20 seconds without a whimper. We stopped there and I didn't reward him. His manners in the pen are improving slowly but surely. This is after 5 days! I need to keep it in perspective!

Still ZERO luck with his leash. No matter how calmly and coolly I put it on his collar he immediately focuses 100% of his chewing energy on it. My efforts to distract his chew and calm him have been easily shaken off. We may move to a harness soon, but I'll keep trying the leash.

Today we are going downtown for a tailgate party and have to leave him in his pen for about 4 hours. We'll be returning for a few hours to let him out, feed and water, play a bit, and let him out again then we have another engagement this evening just for a couple of hours. We stuffed a couple of kongs to hopefully keep him occupied. I can't help feeling like a terrible puppy-parent leaving him alone for so much of the evening, but we have to balance things. That's the hardest part for me. I assume with each action I'm either doing it for Astro or for my wife and I. I have to realize that most of the time they aren't mutually exclusive.

Here are some pics from today:
Astro chewing his most favorite (and unfortunately least durable) toy: http://imgur.com/ClMor
Astro eating grass because dad will wait 15 minutes for him to poop or get off the pot: http://imgur.com/VcQDH
Astro's playpen where he spends time when we're not there or when we can't keep 100% supervision (and where mom/dad go to play w/ him often): http://imgur.com/gVCEB


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Today we had a huge breakthrough in a morning training session with the leash. I got one of the cheap 1.50 clickers from petsmart and my wife and i sat in his exercise pen with him. We got him used to the presence of the leash by clicking when his behavior was appropriate and offering kibbles. We started by clicking him when he was just sniffing at the leash, not nipping or biting at it. Then moved to touching his face/head with it and clicking when he was politely sitting, offering kibble each time. Then attached to his collar and clicked when he was polite. Then applied pressure to his collar in 6 or 7 different directions, clicking and kibbling each time.

He did SO well! I was extremely proud of little Astro! We will be repeating that session again!

Right now the biggest challenge is how he handles us leaving him in his pen. He whines and cries a lot still. I'm click training him right now to be quiet. I think it might be working but he still whimpers a little as I exit. My clicks/kibbles while he's quiet may be having a positive effect but because nothing is improving very quickly I'm hesitant to become so excited.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

You are doing everything right....just try and relax a little. You are right though, sometimes it is difficult to balance your life after getting a pup. Some people are more natural with it.....I don't think I was or am! We did find a boarding facility near us that also does day care and it has been wonderful for us and for her. She gets to play with other little dogs, is supervised and the place is very nice and only charges $10 for a stay from 8 am - 5:30 pm. A bargain for some peace of mind and a date with my spouse! LOL We try and take her at least once a month. If we ever go on a trip again overseas this is where she will stay. Part of the deal about getting a pup was that it would not change our lives....well I can't say that it hasn't but it has enriched our lives but I would not have said this in the first few months of having her. In fact I cried many tears thinking we had made a horrible mistake. Things are SO much better now. I thought she would never stop that darn nipping/biting at our hands but it is much better. She will be one year old this Friday. Just wanted to encourage you. I think getting a puppy is a HUGE job and takes a lot of energy. At 62 years old I am sadly lacking in a ton of energy but thankfully our pup is a bit on the lazy side!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement. We have good moments and bad around here and I have to keep reminding myself that things will get better with time.

Having a puppy might be one of the most difficult things I've ever tried. I've never felt like such a buffoon about anything. This little guy sometimes makes me feel like I'm doing a great job and other times like I've completely messed up.

We have the next three days off from work for what was going to be a mini-vacation we planned months ago. But after Astro stole our hearts and adoption happened, it has now turned into a stay-cation with the pup. I expect this version will be far less relaxing than what we had planned originally. I'm just hoping to the Heavens that in the long run we will find it far more rewarding.

We gave him a bath this morning. That was an experience. His little claws are in need of clipping and/or filing and of course dad thought the best way to give him a bath would be in a shallow warm tub full of water with himself in there with him in his underwear. He got a little too riled up in the process, I think, and wouldn't stop biting/pulling/chewing the towel we used to dry him off. But he now smells like Nature's Miracle puppy shampoo. 

We blocked off the kitchen so he could have some more room to roam and it wouldn't be such a burden to be with him in confinement since we can cook/clean while still being in the same place as him. It was great until we gave him a little too much space and tried leaving him in the kitchen by himself for a few minutes. He found a nice little corner of the linoleum to make into his potty spot. We took him out after that and cleaned it up with enzyme cleaner. Shame on us for not watching him, right? :doh:


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

You're doing fine. And, you're right - there will be good days/weeks and bad days... and they're mostly predictable for the next 4 - 6 mos. Then, things will calm down significantly, in comparison.

Now that it's too late, we frequently recommend that new owners not a get a puppy 
There are a lot of experienced owners on the Forum who won't get a puppy, simply because of all the work. I prefer to get a puppy, b/c I know mostly what to expect (you never know always), and b/c I like to know that most of the mistakes and problems came from me, rather someone else abusing the poor puppy 

You can probably clip the very tip of his claws with a nail (or toe) clipper. Now is a good time to get him used to handling his feet, maybe clipping one foot per day... or one or two toes at first, if you have problems. Just the tip for now, and if you clip too deeply later on, corn starch will stop the bleeding. 

After his bath is a good time for brushing as little or as much as you like. If he's extra wiggly, smear a teaspoon of peanut butter on the fridge around nose level, letting him lick while you brush.

And, you can start brushing his teeth with some doggy toothpaste (never human tooshpaste), after his evening meal and before bed. You can make it a game at this age, slowly increasing the 'formality' of brushing each tooth. The outside of the back and side teeth are important, the inside of the teeth is not as important (I don't brush inside). He may play with the brush or try to chew it... I taught mine to kinda let me brush, then as a reward, he gets to lick the brush. One helpful hint is that a dog licks from the front, but most cannot lick to the side, behind the front canine teeth.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I think we overstimulate him. We give him 3-4 "breaks" throughout the day in his exercise pen where he can take a nap and usually i take the opportunity to teach him to sit and be calm in his pen and usually we leave for 2-3 hours at least once throughout the day to get stuff done. 

He's usually fresh and ready to play right out of his nap, but within 20 minutes or so he starts to get wonky and unresponsive to training that was working well before. Then he begins to get frantic and can't play with the same toy for more than 15 seconds before he moves on to the next. It's pitiful really. That's when I know its time for a nap.

He is definitely making huge improvements. He isn't whining in his pen much anymore as long as we're in the room (we are now, he's dead asleep about 15 feet from my desk here and my wife is on the sofa behind me watching Downton Abbey). I've started working on his behaviors to encourage him to be calm and polite by praising him and giving him treats when he is sitting while I'm working in the kitchen and by leaving the room entirely when he gets excited and jumps up against the cabinets. He is improving greatly. He seems to really understand "Come" and "Sit" very well. I've had to use "Come" a couple of times without a treat in hand but I've done it about 50 times with treat in hand now. He definitely understands it. "Sit" I've only done with treats thus far, but he definitely understands. I got him to sit when he was in his exercise pen and i had my hand on the door, but telling him to "Sit" while opening the door proved too much for his little 8 (almost 9) week self-control.

I'm very proud of my little man. He's doing much better than his dad is.

For the record, the purposes of my posts are both to help people who find themselves in the position of caring for a puppy for the first time and find it exhausting; AND for validation from those who have found themselves in the position before/many times and have advice and/or praise.

And of course, because I can't resist myself, here is Astro right now: http://i.imgur.com/030kD.jpg


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Keep it up. Just like compound interest, the dividends start adding up quickly after the initial few months. In training, I used to say that you could teach most beahviors in the first few weeks.... then it takes two more years to teach consistency with distractions, duration, and distance.

Great picture! A tired dog is a good dog.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Well today marks the first big "hang up" in the Astro saga. 

My wife and I had to take a friend of ours to emergency surgery downtown. We hadn't anticipated it beforehand so I got Astro's large puppy kong with 1/4 cup kibble and 1/4 cup wet food frozen inside. I figure it will keep him occupied for a few hours... Well it turns out we didn't get back until 5 hours later. I think we all know where this is going...

His exercise pen looked like willy wonka's factory had exploded inside of it. My wife immediately took Astro outside and I started in on the mess. One bucket of bleach, half a bottle of enzyme spray, and two exhausted parents later the kitchen is poop free and Astro has had another bath. 

On top of that, he is absolutely fried. He didn't sleep at all obviously due to the poop in his xpen so he was out of his gourd wired. His bath was painful and he wouldn't listen to anything. So now he's back in his freshly bleached xpen on recently bleached linoleum sitting on his favorite blue beach towel dead asleep.

My wife immediately went online looking at rehoming options. I know better though. He may be young and cute but he's ours now. This is just one of the many joys of being puppy parents. I think we passed the test, but I worry more and more each day that Astro isn't as happy as he could be in his new home.


----------



## RitaNg123 (Sep 27, 2012)

I have been keeping up with this thread, and I just wanted to say you sound like a very very dedicated daddy to your little Astro!!! 

Sounds like your wife reacted to the situation and she will probably be over those thoughts in no time. Yesterday my puppy was being soooo annoying all friggin' day and I was thinking, "my god! I'm gonna trade you in for a bag of chips!" But then today she is being so lovable and just chilling with me and being the best puppy ever. Sniffing slippers but not grabbing them, etc. 

Love your updates!!


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Oh my, I can just feel your stress! Be extra gentle with your wife. I know exactly how she is feeling. I hope you are saving copies of this "diary of Astro" thread because I would bet a bundle that a year from now you will be writing about how much this pup has enriched your lives and what a great little exercise partner he is to you. I wish I could wave a magic wand (and I sure as heck could have used one in my experience) but since I can't, I will just say again "things do get better." Do you have children? Don't laugh but I swear I worry more now about taking my dog to be boarded or to daycare than I ever worried about taking our son to the sitter. And we have a wonderful person to board our dog with....I just worry she will MISS us. What a sap I have become. You will become one too.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

The good news is that there was an unharmed puppy buried in that ... pile.  From the pre-Halloween horror scene that you described, you had a predictably unhappy puppy that had to go 2 - 3 times, and got a little frustrated that his schedule was disrupted... In other words, he's learning his house-training and tried to adapt to the situation... He didn't have an 'accident,' more an emergency, and he didn't backtrack in his training. So, other than the unpleasant aftermath that you had to cleanup, the pup and his training are still fine and intact. And, it is interesting how these can be bonding experiences. It wasn't the first and won't be the last, it wasn't the end of the world - **it happens , and hopefully it will be the worst that you'll have to deal with.

Based on your description, I don't think any of us could have done better under the situation and circumstances...

BTW, it may seem too late... but a little breakfast in bed for your wife this weekend; maybe a puppy sitter (local Vet tech?) and a night on the town ... would make a big impression... even if she is over her Marley&Me moments 

Did you tell us Astro's 'breed' and what behaviors have you trained him? Got some clean puppy picture updates... please?


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you once again, Coton. I need to read that and often. There are times when I feel so encouraged and other times when I'm utterly clueless and frustrated. It is devastating at times. 

I wish I could take more of my wife's stance of "don't worry about it he'll be fine."

Like right now Astro is in his exercise pen and we are out here in the living room. He is whining here and there and I just want to go sit in his pen with him. My wife is perfectly content to ignore him.

Today we take him to the shelter to get another round of vaccinations done. We're hoping that this second set of shots allows us to expose him to more. Right now he doesn't see much beyond our house and the backyard. I carried him to the mailbox down the street with me once and that's about it. He's only met four new people in the last week too. We hope to fix that this week.

He is still very wary of the leash. I can get it on him but after that he just wraps it to the front of his face and bites it. I've tried a lot of things to get him to stop but it hasn't worked yet. So when we go to the shelter I'll be cramming him into his now-undersized travel crate. We also hope to get his talons trimmed/filed at petsmart or maybe the shelter will do it. He is ripping out legs to shreds with those things.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm still completely unsure of his breed. I swear he has some rhodesian ridgeback in him. He looks a lot like a ridgeback puppy and has a darker, coarser strip of fur running down his spine. 

This morning has been something of a nightmare. I think his lack of sleep (and mine) is catching up with him hard. He had a straight up *freakout* where he would NOT stop biting my shorts, my hands, my shirt. My wife heard me yelping and came out to see what was going on and he began to attack her legs and feet. I had to physically pick him up and take him to his XPen where i made it a bit smaller than normal to give him a little bit tighter space to rest in. He is already zonked out. That's the first time I've truly felt "out of control" with him. I tried to keep my cool and not do anything in anger, but I know I did start saying "No" a lot. AKA making useless noises at him.

Last night he was having a mini freakout where he gets really out of control with his toys. I captured it a little late. The video I got was actually pretty tame. But I did put it on youtube from my phone while I was sitting with him in the kitchen. 





Behaviors I'm training him:
"Come" and "Sit" were very easy. He will do those on command about 80-90% of the time unless he's distracted or wary.

Last night I spent about 15 minutes tossing treats in his new crate (it's a big wire crate next to the bed) and rewarding him for both going into it on his own or for going in with the trigger phrase "bedtime!" He seemed to do very well with this. He did well in the crate last night with minimal whining. under a minute total including two trips out (I'm timing the trips at 2h 45m between each).

He is also getting really good at sitting while I open his xpen for him. I do have to reward him heavily for it. several times I've been able to get him to stay seated while the door gets entirely open and then I use the trigger phrase "Okay!" and throw him a party.

The leash needs major major work. I'm trying to figure out how to approach it. The kikopup video with the dalmation has been utter failure to this point and the second I clamp that thing to his collar he is instantly honed in on it like a magnet to steel. I could be made of bacon and he wouldn't care. 

I'm also having a lot of issues getting him calm/sleepy. I've read puppies sleep between 16 and 20 hours per day. Astro is lucky to get 10 hours in a day and his behavior/trainability deteriorates VERY quickly. It may be partially because I hate leaving him alone for too long and/or overusing his pen/crate. When we pen him we typically have to remain completely silent and still or any chance of him sleeping is eliminated for a minute or two. I may try putting a sheet over it.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

He looks pretty normal playing with his toys - I don't see any kind of freakout - but it is normal for them to run around like crazy and throw their toys around. My pup does it at least once or twice a day  It's a good thing! It means he's getting rid of some energy in a safe and productive way (instead of chewing on your things)

It's also normal for them to act that way with you. I find the best thing is just to walk away, out of reach. When they won't stop biting your hands, your feet, your pants, whatever, just walk away to another room or the other side of a baby gate and let them calm down. The more you interact, even if it's angry or saying "no" or whatever, the more they just think you're playing.

For the leash, have you tried just leaving it on all the time in the house (while you're home, of course)? After a while, he'll learn that it's normal and will start to leave it alone during walks.

ETA: I agree with the post below re: letting him out of the pen. Can you gate off the kitchen or another room with hard floors? You'll have more chances to work with him on behaviors around new objects. Just make sure you watch him like a hawk. He'll be able to get out some more energy running around after toys if he's out of the pen as well.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Kikopup has great videos. One suggestion is to let him drag the leash... unless you mean that he's chewing on it.

Keep up the training with as many different behaviors as you have the patience for. I have a belief that the more words and hand gestures that you can get the pup to discriminate before 6 mos, the faster he'll learn as he matures (Later, I'll tell you about teaching him to read  )

I have a Lab - GSD mix, and Astro looks a little like mine, Shep. Shep has very soft fur, a wider ridge on his back, but not like a ridgeback, black tip on his tail and black muzzle, partially drooping, tulip ears, loosely curly tail, and unique black rings around his eyes. It's a fairly common mix, especially in Texas... I've seen quite a few around here. Shep also has webbed feet and loves to play with water. He's agile and quick, but not fast. Typically a ridgeback may not be as agile, but they are very fast dogs.

A freakout is usually due to an energy burst. When the pup runs liked a crazed animal, we call it zoomies... someone had the clinical phrase but I don't recall it. Humping is also typical at that age due to excitement rather than sex. Humping a toy is probably not an issue, but if he tries to hump people, you train him not to by anticipating the "look in his eye" and then cue him to sit or otherwise distract him, before he gets started.

Sometimes pups will do these behaviors when they are over-tired (like a cranky baby). If you recognize a pattern or schedule, then about 15 min. before it happens, take the pup outside for a little exercise or some training before bed. An 8 week pup may sleep most of the time... a 10 week pup is much more energetic. If your pup can't run faster than you, yet ... then you might take this time to perfect Come!

To reduce his nipping, look at the Sticky: The Bite Stops Here to learn about Bite Inhibition ... it'll take about 3 days before he begins to understand, then you'll start to get gentler nips. 

It's OK to play with him in the ex-Pen. If you keep him from chewing on cords etc. until he's 6 - 12 mos, then you won't have to worry about him. When a puppy has to learned to chew on appropriate things, such as a Kong, Hard rubber bone, and other toys, then when he's an adult, there 's less chance that he'll chew on cords.

I have a different suggestion. You can let the pup out of the ex-Pen and into the rest of the house if you watch him like a hawk and realize that the micro-second that your attention wonders - such as answering the phone - he will go pee and poop in the middle of that antique Persian rug ... behind the couch, where you can't get to it easily...  ... But this might give you some experience to learn what he looks like when he starts sniffing and needs to go outside... Only if you're prepared to clean up accidents ...


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

We've been giving him kitchen access since Saturday now. Only under our supervision. We've left him alone before and he did find a place to pee (that was Saturday). He's definitely making use of the space. But when he gets overexcited and we can tell he's fighting a nap to the death (he will be chewing furiously one second then plop his head on the floor for a second, then head right back to the toy), we immediately make the xpen up and put him in it. He's taking it really well now. Minimal whining if any. Mostly he just goes to sleep. One caveat is we have to be cautious with our noises and stirring otherwise he wakes up.

I tried the leash method where I just clip it on and let him drag it around. He goes after it a lot still. I actually took a quick video of that.





Here's a pic my wife just snapped of Astro in his shrunken Nap pen: http://i.imgur.com/YESz5.jpg


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

First I have to say Astro is adorable. He looks pretty normal to me in the video.....our puppy still likes to chew her leash. Have you tried putting some Bitter Apple spray on the leash....you can get it at pet stores or the vet. Unfortunately our pup liked it but many do not and it helps them associate things with a bad taste. I think Astro might need more excercise outside and I wouldn't worry so much about the shots not being all done. I was told just to avoid places where lots of dogs frequent....like rest stops. I know our puppy also would sometimes act out when overtired. Are you going to take Astro to a Puppy Kindergarten class? We did, through our vet, and it was very helpful. Lots of encouragement and taught us how to go about training her. One of the best ideas they taught us was not to baby her. Don't carry her, don't fawn over her (that was hard) and don't make things quiet....live normally! The dog should get used to your way of living! Easy to say of course but I do think it has worked with ours. I can so remember some of those first horrible weeks and some people will tell you that it passes quickly but really, I don't think it got better until she was about 8 months old. I am not telling you this to discourage you....just being realistic. It will get better...it WILL get better...... Make that your new mantra. I would let your dog have a little more freedom inside your house, taking her out to potty about every 20 minutes. If you see him start to go in the house.....grab him and immediately take him outside even if he has finished in the house.
I was told by the puppy kindergarten trainer to do that even if it meant they peed on you and you had to shower after and change. It only happened once with Keeva. I know that right now it seems that your entire life is focused on your dog.....I know that I felt like a horrible dog owner and I hollered "No"more than once too!!!! She seems to have survived just fine...............................Take care............


----------



## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

"Any wise words would help. I'm just a tired man right now."

A shepherd/cattle dog mix is high energy. He's going crazy in the morning from the energy and not getting activity. I'm going to call BS on walks. You can do it. It's not trained, but the dog can walk without being trained. I was never trained to walk and I can walk with people. 

Puppies always miss their litter when they go to a new home. Don't lose contacts with the owner of his brother if you can help it. Ruinions would be fun. You seem to play a lot which is good, but you can always puppy proof the room you're hanging out in and let him figure things out. Some good chew toys can give an active dog something to do and you a break. Billy sticks are what my vet suggested, but just get them from a good pet store and not somewhere trashy.

I'd suggest some puppy training pads as well. A puppy left for 5 hours is going to go at least once. You can put them in the confinement area and they make life a lot easier.

"I'm still completely unsure of his breed. I swear he has some rhodesian ridgeback in him. He looks a lot like a ridgeback puppy and has a darker, coarser strip of fur running down his spine. "

He looks boxador to me. Labs often has a stripe of dark down their back and my boxador has one. It stands up when excited. Ridgebacks typically have a strip that is always standing up on end.

In terms of chewing the leash, I find a harness makes that go away. It's not always right in their face and if you don't give a lot of slack, they can't even see it.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

When you put him down for a nap, rather than being extra quiet, consider normal levels of noise, or even louder, b/c you want to get him used to ignoring the normal background of people, TV, telephone, doors, doorbells, and so on. In fact, it might be good to have him in the kitchen where you can desensitize him to loud, sharp noises. 

Consider getting him used to 'ignoring' the doorbell, and other loud noises. You don't want to flood him, but you do want to play with him, and kinda ignore the noises so that he can take his cues from your reaction. Your normal reaction might be to run to the door or to the phone when they go off... that will be his reaction, too. But, if you or your wife play with him while the other rings to doorbell, or calls the various phones... and you ignore him, then he'll listen, maybe cock his head (take a picture or video ... then you might put that on cue  ), and go back to playing with you. You might also do this with firecrackers (if legal in your area) and a capgun, setting them off in a distance outside, and slowly bring the noise closer over a few days. That way you don't have to deal with extreme reactions in a couple of months for New Year's.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I ought to rename this thread to "First Puppy - First two weeks". We're on Day 9 now. I definitely am seeing some "regression" as he gets more comfortable with us and his new home. He won't listen readily as much and is VERY quick to turn from a calm chewing nylabone in your lap pup to leaping up your leg and biting your pant legs as you attempt to walk out of the room. That's around the time we try the "yelp, turn your back (he just sees this as an easier shot at your pants), leave the room (he awaits eagerly your return for more pants biting), then after a few failed attempts to get him to stop snapping like a little pirahna I have no choice but to pick him up and put him in his pen. All the diversion in the world just doesn't do it.

Last night he had a harder time in his crate. He found his way under his bedding and was scratching/biting at the plastic tray underneath. He was very restless all night and would sleep for an hour or so then get up and start chewing/scratching. I may try taking him on a walk tonight and just not letting him sniff around too much. I'm scared to death he could get ill. He just had his second DHLPP shot yesterday and the thought of him sniffing a spot where another dog has eliminated makes me so anxious. We do want to get him a harness, but right now he is between sizes. He could wear a small (17" around the chest) right now, but we're relatively sure that within a few weeks he'll be in a medium (20" around the chest).

Today the wife and I are back to work. She will be checking in on him at lunchtime to feed, water, and take him outside. I'm hoping like crazy we don't have another incident like Tuesday.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree with some others that taking him for walks and, much more importantly, socializing him with new places and new people is more important than waiting for his 12 week vaccines. Unless you live in a very high parvo area, taking him out to socialize now should be one of your top priorities. If you live in a regular suburban residential area without stray dogs running around, there is no problem with taking him out for a walk around the block. 

Personally, and this is based on lots of reading (Ian Dunbar makes good points) and discussions with my vet, I think that the advice to isolate puppies until vaccines are complete does them a huge disservice. The key socialization window closes between 12 and 16 weeks, so getting them out into the world is so important. Not everyone will agree with me here, but do some reading, talk to your vet, and come to your own conclusions. Your anxiety about disease may be holding him back from some great new experiences. I think this is even more important when you have a shelter puppy, because you don't know what kind of experiences he's had growing up, if any.

Ok, soap box over! 

Harnesses are typically very adjustable. I got a medium size harness for my pup (about 14lbs when I brought him home) and it will possibly adjust most of the way to his adult size. Take him to a pet store and try a couple on, but you shouldn't have a problem.

For the biting, have you tried holding a toy and stuffing it into his mouth while he's going for you? Trying to "divert" them with a toy doesn't always work, but if you can catch that moment when the open mouth snapping turtle is coming towards you, you can fill it with a toy instead. Floppy stuffy type toys work well for this.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Great point. I will definitely begin getting him outside and maybe meeting some relatives who live close by. Especially some of our smaller cousins.

I will be grabbing him a harness sometime today or tomorrow. I may get a cheapy from wal mart or something that will fit him now and then invest in a better medium sized one in a few weeks. At least it will get us out the door.

Diversion tactics have been working when he is chewing inappropriately. It's so pitiful at times that when I'm sitting in the kitchen with him chewing the nylabone he will literally start chewing the linoleum floor by opening his mouth so wide he can mouth the floor. It's easy to fit the nylabone in his mouth then. Much harder when his little teeth are clamped on my shorts. I have to physically pry his teeth apart. The only way to divert him from clothing i've found is to take his rope tug toy and sweep it back and forth on the ground. That excites him like nothing else. Sometimes that backfires on me though because it'll coax him into a case of "the zoomies" and he will come right back to the clothes/pants/shoes. This kid doesn't poop out!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

The Vet is your friend, you can always call or email with questions .. such as the risk of Parvo/Distemper in your area.

It is time to start socializing with lots of people, bringing a few over at a time for a puppy party. You can also taking him shopping at PetsMart and maybe Lowe's and Home Depot... as long as his paws never touch the ground... for lots of people contact.

Make sure he always as something to chew. If he is a Lab mix, he will always chew. In any case, he will start losing his baby teeth, and his adult teeth will start growing in a month or so, so he'll be teething... looking for something to chew and sooth the soreness.

The Bite Stops Here takes about 3 days to kick in, even then you only get a reduction of bloodletting, slowly resulting in bloodfree nipping, leading to mouthing, etc. Depending on the reaction of the pup, you don't have to use a Yelp!, you can say Ouch!!!, or Oops, where you want a marking word, to indicate when you are withdrawing attention.

Re-read the Sticky:the Bite Stops Here. perhaps you need to try a little longer. Read this and note the 3 days and the apology....maybe, he ignored the Yelp!, because you ignored the apology. Instead of the Yelp, you can say Ouch! or Oops! 

Some Tweaks to Bite Inhibition (to get him to stop biting when he wants to play or otherwise):
1. When the pup bites, then yelp. It should sound about like what the pup does when you step on its paw... don't step on his paw for a sample . When you yelp, the pup should startle briefly and stop nipping. (Look for the startle) Praise and pet. He'll bite.
2. When he bites the second time, Yelp. When he stops, praise and pet. He'll nip again, although it may be a little gentler. ...
3. Whenshe bites a third time, Yelp (see a pattern?). But this time, turn your back for 15 - 30 secs. If he comes around and play bows or barks, then that is an apology. This is important. Accept it, praise and pet... and cringe in expectation of the next nip...
4. When he bites the 4th time, Yelp, then leave the area, placing him in a 2 min. time-out. It is better if you can leave, rather than moving him. Then, return and interact. (He's still hungry...)
5. When he nips the fifth time, yelp, and leave the area, stopping interaction for now.

You can modify the number of steps, but not what you do... for example, you can leave in a huff , after the second nip or even the first, but you have to provide a vocal marker, to give him something to react to. I still use a light yelp with my 11 yo when he lets teeth touch skin as I give him a treat. No pressure or harm, but I want him to appear very safe to everyone.

Pups need to sleep over night in order to learn their lessons. So, keep doing this for 3 days. By the third day, you should notice signficant Bite Inhibition. He may still nip, but it will be softer and he won't draw blood. And, he should be less aggressive, especially, if you notice the apology. Keep up the training and make sure that everyone yelps.... Very powerful method.

If you learn the technique, then you can apply the "yelp" to other circumstances, also. I believe that "yelp" is "Please don't do that, I don't like it." in dog communication. I currently use the yelp when my dog plays tug, then runs with the toy, when he fetches and keeps it out of reach or when he takes a treat too quickly.... 

Dogs will grab for tug toy and take along some skin. With good Bite Inhibition, as well as withdrawing attention, you can teach most dogs to slow down grabbing, while still being able to rip your arm out of the socket but pulling. My dog is polite and will return my arm to me, so that we can continue playing.

Let us know, and try to figure out exact what is not working in this communication with your pup.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Bite Release: [from Turid Rugaas]
When a pup or a dog latches onto you, your clothes, another dog, etc. sometimes you can press a release point to make him let go.
1. Move your hand up the inside of his rear leg, until you reach the inguinal line where the leg connects to the belly.
2. Press a finger into that area. You shouldn't have to jam your finger in, but there should be some pressure. It shouldn't be painful to the pup.
3. If you do it right, the pup will let go, he may look like "Huh?", he will explore what you did ... then he may latch on again.
4. Take that brief window of opportunity to redirect him.
5. We've used this successfully when strong dogs get excited and latch onto another. However, you need some help with larger dogs, b/c you're putting your nose at risk, as you get into position. I've never been bitten, but I've never tried it on a vicious dog.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I'll hit the bite inhibition hard tonight. I'm hoping he naps a lot while we're away at work so he will be more receptive to some training. You mentioned that pups need to sleep overnight to learn. If he is restless and not sleeping through the night, can that play a part in him being rambunxious and unresponsive?


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

hanksimon said:


> It is time to start socializing with lots of people, bringing a few over at a time for a puppy party. You can also taking him shopping at PetsMart and maybe Lowe's and Home Depot... as long as his paws never touch the ground... for lots of people contact.


Talk to your vet, because I'm sure it's very regionally dependent, but in my area (northeast) there's no problem with bringing a young pup into a store and letting them walk around. I'm especially comfortable in hardware stores, since I've never seen another dog in one before - the chance of somebody with a sick dog going into one of those stores, here at least, is slim to none. 

As you can probably tell, I think people get way too anxious about this issue in general. ;-) My pup got his 12 week vaccines on Tuesday and previous to that had been to pet stores (3 times), the hardware store, the liquor store, and the feed store, in addition to walks on my street (small street with no outside traffic and a couple vaccinated dogs). He's also gone for walks on the public rail trail by my house, but we stopped those due to the ticks he was picking up (not the parvo risk). My vet was fully behind all of this socialization and I share it to let you know what's possible if you live in a lower risk area. Of course, if your vet says that it's high risk where you live, then absolutely take that into account.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

hikeon3 said:


> I'll hit the bite inhibition hard tonight. I'm hoping he naps a lot while we're away at work so he will be more receptive to some training. You mentioned that pups need to sleep overnight to learn. If he is restless and not sleeping through the night, can that play a part in him being rambunxious and unresponsive?



How do you know he's not sleeping during the night? Is he keeping you up? If you're asleep for 8 hours and not watching him, I would bet he's getting at least a few hours of sleep during that time. If he really is making a racket all night, have you tried putting a sheet over his pen? It might help him calm down with less to stimulate him.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> How do you know he's not sleeping during the night? Is he keeping you up? If you're asleep for 8 hours and not watching him, I would bet he's getting at least a few hours of sleep during that time.


I wake up about 10 times every night. It seems he is awake and either chewing, re-arranging himself, or whining about half of the time. The only solid sleep he (or I) gets is between 9pm and about 12:00am when he wakes up and whines to go outside. After that he's pretty restless and since he's right next to my side of the bed I am privvy to his entire night of gerbil-like nocturnalisms.

I've been meaning to try a sheet or something like it. Tonight we will see how that goes. I have a big beach towel that just might do the trick.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

hikeon3 said:


> I wake up about 10 times every night. It seems he is awake and either chewing, re-arranging himself, or whining about half of the time. The only solid sleep he (or I) gets is between 9pm and about 12:00am when he wakes up and whines to go outside. After that he's pretty restless and since he's right next to my side of the bed I am privvy to his entire night of gerbil-like nocturnalisms.


Ahh, that's what I was afraid of - it does sound like he's up a lot (and you must be exhausted!). I would try the sheet thing and see if that helps. 

I liked your gerbil comparison - as a former gerbil owner, I know exactly what you mean! Haha

I think starting to take walks may help with the sleeping as well. For a little puppy, even a short walk can be a lot of work (not to mention all of the things to see and smell to drain mental energy) and he might zonk after walking.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I just called around to the 4 closest vet clinics to where I live. 2 of them said that parvo/distemper are uncommon but to be wary just the same, and the other 2 stated that it is very common and that a nearby shelter even had to close due to an outbreak last fall/winter. 

Frustrating, but I'm glad I at least made the calls. Astro is scheduled for his third DHLPP on Nov 8th. I'm _*really*_ looking forward to getting that done.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=200064
Seems kind of alarmist, but hard to ignore entirely. (I live in Round Rock, a heavily populated suburb of Austin)


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

In my area, dogs do die of Parvo and distemper... although we don't have many ticks  ... And we had a bad outbreak of West Nile, altho that doesn't affect dogs. We had a number of dogs just released on the side of the road ... and I think the news said that these dogs infected the shelter with Parvo and were put to sleep.

When you use a cover at night, keep it away from sides so that the pup can't grab hold of it and pull it into the ex-Pen with him, chewing it to shreds.

The lack of sleep at night that you describe sounds normal and shouldn't affect his learning. The rambunctiousness and unresponsiveness result in him waking up at night, not the reverse  And are due to age and need for more exercise (and training) ... 

When my Lab- GSD mix was about 4 mos old, I trained him and then walked him for a 15 min. potty break before bedtime at about 10pm. He'd zonk, then wake up about 40 min. later ... wired. [I think a human sleep cycle is 90 min. and a dog's cycle is 20 min.] So, I let him run around the back yard. He did zoomies, ran into his doghouse, barked (I gues b/c he like the echo), ran some more, slammed back into the dog house, barked... continuing for about 10 min. I don't know exactly what he did, b/c he stopped if I came outside. But when the 'thunder' stopped, I let him in and he zonked for the rest of the night...

If the pup is not bothering you at night, don't be overly concerned about HIS 'well-being'. They will get enough sleep, if the environment is safe. At this age, if a puppy gets too tired or 'over-trained' they will just conk out. It's funny to watch, there are YouTube videos of puppies trying to do too much and then just kinda of zonking out... similar to young babies. It's more important for you to get rest.

I don't recall the timing, but I think that a crated 12 week pup can sleep though the night. So, you won't have to watch him at night as closely at that time.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Yesterday was encouraging. Wife and I introduced him to his new schedule during the week. He is in his exercise pen in the kitchen from 7am to about 12 noon when my wife gets home and lets him out, gives him a kong for his midday meal, and some water. She plays with him a bit as well just to let him stretch his legs out. After that, he is back in the pen until about 4:45pm when she or I get home for the evening. He takes his biggest meal at that point and we spend the most of the evening playing, eliminating, training, and he gets one approximately hour-long nap around 6:30 or 7:00.

Last night I played with him and the tug rope for probably a total of 2 hours in the evening to try and poop him out for bedtime. It seemed to work well. We tossed a big beach towel over the top of his crate and he fell asleep very quickly with maybe a few light whimpers. But like always after his initial nighttime elimination around 12:30am I put him back in his crate and he began trying to dig through the plastic tray in the bottom of his crate (he has no chance of getting through it). He kept it up for about 20 minutes. Then I heard him tear into his nylabone for awhile before I fell back asleep. He was pretty active through the twilight hours, though, frequently waking me. I'm considering moving his crate out of our bedroom, but I wonder if that might cause him to bark and whine louder. I'm also concerned with him enjoying his crate as opposed to seeing it as a prison for him, as I think he considers the exercise pen at this point.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Have you played crate games with him? Specifically, Susan Garrett's version. I think that will help him see it as a more positive place.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Every night for about 10-15 minutes we practice getting into the crate for treats and i hide treats under toys, in folds in his blanket, in the corners of his crate etc. To him it should seem a magical place where treats seem to materialize out of thin air and going into the crate either on his own or at the trigger "Bedtime!" gets him a treat. 

But at night I do need to confine him in there. He doesn't like that.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

hikeon3 said:


> Every night for about 10-15 minutes we practice getting into the crate for treats and i hide treats under toys, in folds in his blanket, in the corners of his crate etc. To him it should seem a magical place where treats seem to materialize out of thin air and going into the crate either on his own or at the trigger "Bedtime!" gets him a treat.
> 
> But at night I do need to confine him in there. He doesn't like that.


Yeah, I can sympathize - my pup is similar. You're doing all the right things, so I think you just need to keep it up and make sure to praise him when he's quiet, ignore him when he's whining, and be consistent. He'll get better!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I appreciate the support. It really helps to hear that what I'm doing is, at the very least, not completely off. I know things will get better. I just need to be patient with him and less anxious about what I'm doing wrong. This is all uncharted territory for me so feeling my way through the dark is much easier with the advice and encouragement I've gotten here.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

I think you are doing great! We are retired and I cannot even imagine having a puppy and trying to work! I do have to tell you a funny story. I was going to crate our dog at night. That was THE PLAN.
The first week or so she did great and then suddenly she started this strange sound....kind of like a bird chirping. She didn't bark, didn't dig at her crate, didn't whine.....just this bird chirping noise and it drove us crazy. I did put her into my sewing room at the other end of the house just so we could sleep. I had to leave town for a couple night so my husband, bless his heart, just put her little bed next to ours and she has been sleeping there ever since. I don't know why she made that noise but she now sleeps uncrated and is just fine....only wanders into our bathroom off our bedroom once in awhile I think when she gets too hot in her bed. I think maybe that all dogs just are different and you have to figure out what works best with your dog. I sense from your posts that things are calming down or that you are calming down! LOL Our pup had her first birthday today and we had a party for her with our grandkids. She got a tiny pizza shaped like a bone and a tiny sugar cookie also shaped like bone. We wrapped her gifts in kleenex which she loves to shred. It was a hoot. If you had asked me just a few years ago if I would give a dog a birthday party I would have told you you were nuts!
Hang in there. There will be good days and bad days and then all of a sudden you realize your life has returned to normal!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Well yesterday was a little bit good and a little bit... odd.

I came home with the intention of playing with Astro until he was absolutely exhausted. It took almost two hours of playing tug-rope and fetch the tug-rope but I succeeded, but it was only 7:45pm! I let him nap for about 20 minutes which completely rejuvenated him and sent him into an energy burst that lasted all the way until about 9:45pm when I had to put him in his crate and get ready for bed. He woke us up at about 12:15am obviously ready to bust at the seams. After that we slept until about 3:15am and then to about 5:50am, waking up to the sounds of his midnight musings intermittently throughout the night.

He also started an alarming behavior when we take him outside to eliminate. He will go potty pretty quickly, but as we wait for him to do a number two or even if we intend to turn right back around and get him inside he immediately heads to a patch of dirt right next to the back patio and starts digging. He has a hole he has already made some progress on and he just digs with his front paws there. I've tried distracting him with lots of toys and treats, but it seems like at that moment there is nothing else in the world he'd rather do. He does it whether he's tired or not and its worrisome and frustrating to both my wife and I.

We seemed to be making a lot of progress on bite inhibition yesterday. Normally my wife is an absolute chewtoy for him, but about 80% of the time she came into the kitchen he restrained himself. The other 20% of the time my wife, like a trooper, exlaimed "OUCH!" and went through the separation steps, seeking an apology. He doesn't really like to apologize to her, but he will quickly apologize to me. I'm trying to seek out opportunities for the two of them to bond. He and I spend a lot more time together and I do most of the training and playing. 

This morning I had to go into work early, so she's home alone with the little guy. From her frantic texts, he refuses to stop biting her clothes in my absence so he is restricted to his exercise pen for the time being while she does laundry and cleans the house up; whining all the while.

There are times when we are extremely encouraged and other times where it seems like all is lost. I'm trying to look at him like a big empty jar, and we are constantly putting pennies in the jar. Eventually, we may have a jar full of money; but right now he is just a big mostly empty jar. 

And of course, a few pictures of our mostly empty jar: 
Astro chewing away at his favorite nylabone
Astro zonked out because he scratched at his crate tray all night instead of sleeping

And one last picture my wife put on Instagram:
http://instagram.com/p/RSQPHlF8rw/


----------



## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

It seems like you're putting a lot of work into the dog. Why aren't you doing obedience school? There's a lot of lessons to be learned there that you just can't teach at home. The puppy also benefits hugely from playing with other puppies. The acquired bite inhibition is easier learned from other puppys than you.

In my experience, there's not many other alternatives when cleaning. Unless you have a very aloof dog, they're going to get in the way. 

In terms of taking a dump, take him/her out on a leash and don't go near digging places.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

You're still doing fine... remember the ups and the downs 

Great picture ... very intelligent look.... you are in so much trouble! 

1. You might start teaching him to Fetch, then to Fetch different objects by name, then to take them to your wife for a tag-team run through the house (him, not you). It sounds like Tug is going to wear You out in just a few weeks...
2. Keep training as many behaviors as possible. Teach him a large vocabulary quickly and slowly perfect each behavior.
3. Ask your wife to consider giving him the Kong just before she leaves. Maybe he'll chew himself to sleep. They can bond through play and hand feeding kibble.
4. The apology is good, but not required. But the point is that if offered, not to ignore it, recognizing progress. Sounds like great progress... it'll make a big difference. Your wife can try to say Ouch! when he is biting her clothes. Let us know!
5. As seaboxador suggested, take him outside onleash to poop. Say, "go Potty" then, praise and let him offleash, after he does. Accept the digging and use it as a reward for pooping. It's difficult to prevent digging, but you can try to select a good location. 
6. While he's digging, you can also say "Stop." Then, snap on the leash and take him back inside. Don't pull him. I suggest you simply pick him up gently (while he's still small) with the leash on, and take him back in. If you're consistent, he'll associate the leash with stopping. Much Later, when you say Stop, he will. 
7. Evaluate this for your situation. If he is consistent and your schedule is consistent (unlike today), then his potty schedule may be more consistent. So, you might consider trying to take his crate out of your bedroom, but within earshot. It sounds like he wakes up to play, not to potty ... Consider it... but don't trust him until he's about 6 mos. Maybe later...
8. Keep filling that pennyjar, it's going to be VERY valuable in just a few years!

@cotonlove - Many small puppies will chirp or whistle, quickly stopping as they grow.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Yesterday was very encouraging. We had a great evening with astro and even opened up the house to him a little bit. He was given access for most of the evening to the living room and our hall. We spent some time puppy proofing and though its not perfect it gave us some peace of mind. He was mostly an angel. He gets tired often and kind of flighty. Last night I didn't get up at midnight as planned but woke up at 2am. 5 hours after bedtime. He was fine. I'm wondering if that was an anomaly or if I can count on this being a normal thing. Getting up only once at night sounds awesome at this point. 

Today was great for awhile. He has been getting tired more often which I attribute to it being the weekend and us being around a lot. But his flightiness is really turning into a problem. When we take him out to go potty he will just take off and find plants to tear up. I ask him to come but eventually I just have no choice but to pick him up and carry him inside. The leash isn't really an option. We tried walking him around the backyard. He basically bit onto the leash and fought me the entire way. I conditioned him to the leash and having it clipped to his collar but the second we start moving and he feels the least bit out of control he just clamps on to the leash. We put him in a harness and he basically went into a gator death roll and bit onto the leash. I had to physically untangle him while he bit my hands repeatedly. Not fun. Frustrating. Into the xpen he went.

At the end of my rope about the leash. Looking into classes this week.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Have you tried a chain leash instead of a fabric one? That deters leash biting pretty quickly.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Guess that is next on the list. I may need to coat all of my plants out back in bitter apple as well.


----------



## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

I think you are doing great with your puppy. Good thing he's so cute, huh? I enjoy seeing the photos you posted. I wanted to give Aidan back to the breeder during the second week. He reminded me a cute, furry, piranha. Of course, I didn't do that, but it took me several months to get used to having a puppy. I can't remember how long the sleep deprivation lasted -- maybe a month, maybe two. But it did eventually end. So did the biting and pulling on our clothes -- we used The Bite Stops Here sticky for advice on how to handle that. It seemed to take forever, and saying ouch! only egged him on.

One thing we did was gently handle Aidan - especially his ears, mouth, paws, and tail -- daily, a lot. He is fully cooperative during grooming, bathing, and when I take him to the vet, and I think that is why. Everyone is always surprised about his docility during those times. 

You are lucky bitter apple works. I bought 4 kinds of bitter stuff to deter Aidan, and he loved all of them.

I did buy him bully sticks from bestbullysticks.com, after reading about them on here. He liked them a lot better than Nylabones. I do not know if you can give such a young puppy a bully stick, though -- perhaps someone else can answer that.

Aidan was fine in his crate as long as I covered it with a blanket. I hid tiny dog biscuits in his crate at bedtime -- I think you said you do that. It helped a lot. Now that he is trustworthy at night (meaning he sleeps all night and doesn't seek out trouble), he sleeps in our closet (his choice). He put all the stuff that is important to him in the closet -- bully sticks, toys, bones, and a pillow from my bed. We keep our shoes on the shelf above the closet rod.

Aidan still likes to wrestle with his leash. Often he gets the leash zoomies when we are in the yard, leaping around, grabbing and shaking the leash. I'm going to take Canyx's suggestion, and buy him a chain leash.

Aidan outgrew chewing on plants, eating leaves, bringing large sticks into the house, trying to eat the gravel from our driveway, and so forth. He does enjoy digging. We have a 40 x 20 pen for him, and I clean it up daily and look for holes along the fence line.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

You are doing great! I got tired of taking our puppy out after only three nights so I decided to wait and see if she would wake me if she had to go. She never did and has slept through the night until we get up about 7 AM. Even then she will just lay around until 8 or so when she rings her bell to go out.
I think you are doing just fine. Check into taking him to puppy kindergarten. Just going to those classes will let you know face to face that you are not alone! It is fun and if you can find a small class, even better. We found ours through our vet and they were held in the evenings. Worth every penny.

thanks hanksimon....I had never heard a chirping dog before. I though she was just OCD! Like she found out she could make that noise and then just couldn't help herself! LOL


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Re: Chirping - I think there are some Youtube videos of newborn and infant pups, whistling and chirping.

Leash biting - Not sure if we posted: Google "Loose Leash" "silky Leash" Kikopup and Turid Rugaas with 'dog pulling' [not in quotes]


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Today was frustrating. Very, very frustrating. Days like today make me regret our decision of adopting Astro in the first place.

Last night went well. I got up once overnight with Astro and took him out then this morning I took first watch and took him out, fed him, gave him water, and kept his attention all morning while my wife got ready. Then I got ready in a frenzy while hearing my wife screaming "OUCH!" and "OW!" in loud high pitched noises. That breaks my heart because 90% of the time I know I'm going to be coming out of the shower to a wife drenched in frustrated tears and a puppy back in confinement. 

He was in his exercise pen from 7am until about noon and then from about 12:15pm to about 5pm today. That's just the reality of what we can do with our work schedules. He both peed and pooped on a towel during the first go around and the second go around did neither. We've been feeding him from kongs and hand exclusively.

My arrival home was pleasant enough. I took him outside and he relieved himself and we played in the yard. We blocked off the kitchen like usual and played some tug rope as well as trained his "stay" command with his water bowl and an open exercise pen door. He's doing VERY well with stay now. I also reinforced "Come" and "Sit" for a few good treats. That was the best 30 minutes or so of the evening.

But as the night wears on, we try to put him down for naps but he will sleep for about 30 minutes then wake up and just whine and whine. I take him out to eliminate and put him back in the pen for more rest but he will continue whining. After 30 minutes or so I just assume he's not going back to sleep and turn the kitchen back into his domain and start playing with him and his toys. He tires quickly of that and decides that the floor trim in the corner of the kitchen looks much more appealing for him to dig at with his front paws. My attempts to redirect him turn into zoomies, so I take him outside and encourage him to sprint until he collapses so I can get a moment of peace before bed. Nope. Instead he just digs his hole. So I crack the backdoor and warn the wife to put away any of her Christmas crafts in the living room and prepare for indoor armageddon because he will only sprint in frantic circles in the house. After a few minutes, into the house. Nope. Instead of sprinting he sees how many places he can jump up on and make me use my "get down" command. He obeys, but I don't think he understands that I don't want him to keep doing it. The coffee table, the trash can, the kitchen cabinets, the couch, the kitchen chairs. Let's see what dad WON'T command me to get down from. My saintly wife gets his favorite nylabone and beckons him to her lap, where he goes and completely ignore the nylabone, opting instead for her PJ pants, and rips a tear right down the side (thats the second pair today).

My reaction wasn't "redirect" or "positive reinforcement" or "sunshine flowers and fairy dust."

I picked his furry butt up and plopped him right into his pen. I don't love this defiant, energetic, whiney little nightmare yet but I sure as heck love my wife who is in the bedroom in frustrated tears right now.

We are meeting with a local trainer tomorrow. We need help. Badly. All I can do right now is ignore Astro because I am angry and frustrated and I feel like any "bond" I've formed with him is worthless to both him and I right now. Nothing is working out like I'd imagine even abysmal levels of success to be. I don't look forward to being around my puppy or even in the house with him right now.

Puppyhood stinks. It really, really does.


----------



## ajw (Oct 15, 2012)

Yup, puppyhood is not fun. Astro sounds like he needs a mental challenge. Try this:

Take an empty water bottle , take off the lable the cap and the ring the cap attached to. Put a treat inside and have him smell the treat. Enjoy the next 10 - 40 minutes depending.  

I like to use the leash indoors. If I want to be in my living room, that's where I'm going and the dog leash gets tied to the leg of the couch and my girl gets a blanket, her favorite toys and about 4 feet of wandering room. She whined but I ignored it, and walked away when it was horrendous. Right now she's sleeping on my feet, instead of eating my sons legos. I like this a lot better. As she matures I will trust her more but as an analogy, nobody expects a toddler to be a mini adult, nor should we expect a puppy to be a mini grown dog.

Please take Astro out of your room. As much as he is waking you, you might be waking him. Once he's more grown up and getting consistent rest you can re- evaluate. I'm almost certain once I trust Maya she will choose to sleep with my son, she loves him and his room, but she has a long way to go before that door is opened.

And I am a huge fan of sturdy but temporary fencing. My Maya will always be fenced, but right now she doesn't need the whole yard nor do I want to have to protect the whole yard. T bar, welded wire are economical relatively speaking and might provide you and Astro some outdoor freedom, a blessed thing.

Maya is 15 weeks, for comparison.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Geez. I really do feel for you two. Really. I don't even know what to suggest. Do you live in a house? Could you get one of those kennels with a roof. We got one from Costco that is about 4 ft. by 6 ft. We put our pup in it when we need a little time to ourselves and when I want to mop the floor. We also use it when we need to be gone for awhile...like to go golfing or shopping. We know she is safe and we know our house is safe.
It looks nice, like coated cyclone fencing. She gets a lot of mental stimulation watching birds etc. I feel so bad for you both and understand what you must be going through.................


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear this... but it does get better... much better. 
1. Keep working on Bite Inhibition.
2. Take up boxing so that you can go beat up a speed bag....
3. Note the time and circumstance for Zoomies - that's a good sign. Fifteen minutes before he would normally get Zoomies, wear out his raggedity little butt by training for 10 min., tug, Fetch, running him in the back yard, a little potty time, and maybe a Kong snack. Zoomies just before 'bedtime' is similar to a toddler getting cranky, because he's over-tired. Also, if you see him chewing alot, there may be some teething going on with a sore mouth.
4. Got to work on good experiences with your wife, so that she doesn't throw him into the blender  You might record what activities tire him out the most, including training, then combine them and shoot for zonk time. 
5. Many times, just before you reach zonk time, when he's still got a few cups of hyperactive energy left, he may bark and randomly chew on things - a Tug or chase (maybe even Fetch?) might help to drain off those last drops.
6. Treibball - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpH_WLC4qs He's too small and a little young for this, but you may get some ideas with tennis balls or soccer balls...

It does get better ... pls don't use him as a football


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I appreciate the posts of encouragement y'all. Sometimes that's what it takes. We're trying to do things right, so telling my friends/family about the issue usually prompts them to tell me something like "just chain him outside" or "keep him in the garage" or "put him on his back and hold him down" or "tap him on the nose and tell them 'no'". Telling them that I'm attempting to raise Astro with positive reinforcement usually gets a blank stare.

Things did improve last night. I went and sat with him in his pen and he was an absolute angel. He still loves sitting in my lap and looking up at my face and offering the odd lick/nibble at my chin. Hard to stay mad at that. My wife just needs to warm up to doing this as well, I think.

He slept very well last night. If my alarm hadn't gone off at 1:30am he probably would've slept longer. I didn't want to chance it though so I just followed through and let him eliminate. This morning he was dead asleep when my alarm went off as well. That, at least, is encouraging.

We are having some issues timing his number twos. It may be due to just coming off of a weekend and his "schedule" being upset, but we are running into the issue where he will get up, eat half of his morning meal, go outside for number two, then finish the second half of his morning meal. My wife leaves about 1.5 hours after that and he will not have gone number two again. She returns about 4.5-5 hours later to a fresh pile on the towel in his crate. That is most unpleasant as you can imagine. He can usually hold the rest until I get home about 5 hours after that. We intentionally feed him most of his food at night so we can let him out frequently to keep the mess outside. This may be contributing to his energy bursts lasting late into the evening.

A question I've had and never found an answer for is if Astro is getting noticeably tired and starts looking to lay down/snooze but it's getting close to bedtime (8pm, 8:30pm, etc), is it worth it to keep him awake until bedtime? Or should I let him snooze away? I fear that his little pup-nap is going to give him a refresher just before bed and he will be extremely restless in his crate.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Remember the cycles ... eventually the good times will greatly outweigh the bad.

BTW, I notice that your wife seems to get a lot of poop duty, and damaging nipping - no advice, just observation.

Not a recommendation: if you are very consistent with timing, food, exercise, play, and sleep ... then the pup will be equally consistent with poop... but it's not worth the effort to be obsessive, b/c dogs adapt ... it's just that puppies take a few months to adapt, and an adult dog may take a day or less... I don't know if you need the additional motivation, but you have a diary of Astro's progress on these posts, and his calm times are increasing, as well as his time sleeping through the night...

Puppy naps are due to physical or mental exertion. You can try to keep him awake, but they can zonk out in 15 seconds, if needed... My pup feel asleep in his food bowl  It won't hurt to experiment, but I don't think it will help. I suggest some exercise, regularly, before bedtime, and maybe a Kong with a small portion, to let him chew himself to sleep. 

I believe that people have a 45 min. sleep cycle and dogs have a 20 min. cycle. So, he might awaken a few times an hour, russle about for 5 min., then go back to sleep. Try to keep him on schedule, extending as you're doing, and eventually he'll match your schedule.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Hanksimon has good advice. One thing we did...which may sound strange... we kept a paper on a table near our patio door and every time we took her out we wrote down the time when she peed or pooped. It was often I remember.....and then suddenly when she turned about 8 months old it slowed way down. Now she goes pee and poo every morning after getting up about 8 am.....sometimes she will poo again around 10 and again around 5. She pees about every 3-4 hours or so (except during the night she doesn't go out at all). Anyway, it helps to see a pattern is what I am getting at. Of course we are home all day and not working. I agree that your wife really needs to get on board and play with the puppy. Sure those nips hurt and it isn't all fun but she can help practice that Bite Inhibition and if you both do it the same way it will click eventually. Plus, it just plain gets a whole lot better with time. I can tell you really do care about this puppy....just remember he is just being what he is....a puppy! I never thought of myself as a dog person....in fact I didn't really care for dogs and have always been a little scared of them. Well...she has stolen my heart and Astro will steal yours too! I can tell from your posts that things are getting better.....and I am SO happy about that!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Things are definitely improving. The little booger is growing on both my wife and I. Is he still a little fart? Yes. Is he still often unruly and what we would interpret as stupid? Yes. But he's a puppy. We're still coming to terms with that and what it means to our lives today, tomorrow, a month from now, a year from now, etc. 

Last night we took Astro to visit a trainer at a local family owned training facility. It is wonderful! The staff _adored_ Astro and he was so calm and polite with everyone. It was good to get him a little time socializing with people besides my wife and I. We are going to be enrolling him in some puppy classes over there starting soon. Any help we can get at this point is a step in the right direction for us.

He still won't walk on a leash, that's the main thing I'm hoping to work on with him. Yesterday we had to carry him the entire time at the facility. We are getting better about recognizing his behavior cycles and how they relate to his level of tiredness. We may have already shot ourselves in the foot on that, though, because he sleeps all day while we're at work. So he goes from [abundantly energetic] to [kind of tired but not ready to nap] to [really tired and needing a nap but zoomies are setting in] to [full on zoomies and biting any loose clothing or shoes attached to a human or not] over the course of the evening then just absolutely crashes in his crate around 9:30pm. It's a lot for us to handle over the course of about four to five hours.

His sleep habits are immensely better. That's the best part so far. He is very quiet in his crate and is far less active in there than he used to be. He won't whine at all until I get up to take him outside then he will start whimpering like I'm going to forget to let him out. 

He did poop in his exercise pen this morning, though. He went number two this morning, as usual, about halfway through his normal breakfast. Then about 30 minutes later I put him in his exercise pen so I could go get my work clothes on and brush my teeth. He whined and cried for a few minutes. I went to check on him about five minutes later and he had dropped two sizable payloads on the floor. I let him out immediately, cleaned up with a healthy dose of simple green, then enzyme cleaner soaked the linoleum and wiped it up. I'm guessing the poor guy just couldn't hold it. It's strange because he surely wasn't making any signs of needing to go.

Anyways, things are definitely looking up. I may change my tune tonight as the trick or treaters show up one by one and he tries darting out the front door over and over again.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

It's pretty common for us working dog owners to come home to an energetic pup who has been sleeping all day. It can be annoying, but with two people you can hopefully tag team him so the other can get dinner cooked or housework done. When I just can't take it anymore, DH takes the puppy down to the basement and throws the ball for 20min to wear him out.

For feeding in the morning, can you only let him eat for the first bit, then take him out to poop? I wonder if eating in two sessions means he has to go later, which ends up being in his pen. If you feed him just once, as early as possible (after his initial pee break) then you should have time to get two poos out of him before you have to go to work. I know this works for my pup.

You sound like your attitude and general feelings about him have improved lately, so that's good! It's so key to just be "zen" with puppies. They are silly, ridiculous, annoying, bitey things, and the more calm you can be about it all, the better. When my pup gets to be too much, I just stand on the other side of the baby gate (where he can't bite me) and try to laugh about it. Astro will get less frustrating with time. Training classes should help too and I think will give you some goals for your interactions with him. When my pup gets bitey and crazy, I can often redirect to training, which he loves. It just gives me one more thing to do with him other than play tug for hours at a time (which he'd love). 

Do you know any of the kids on your street who will be trick or treating? If there are a couple calm ones (with parents you know) it could be a great opportunity to socialize assuming Astro isn't freaked out by the costumes. Just make sure Astro is on a leash so he can't dart out the door.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

And no candy for Astro ! 

>>>He whined and cried for a few minutes. 
This was probably as much warning as he got - so maybe he tried to start a dialogue: "Hello?" ... "Hello!!! ?" .. "Got a probl... nevermind." sigh 

He's probably not stupid... just needs to learn the rules. The trainer will help significantly. Plus, it's important to spread soem Zen and puppy loving to your wife...

When he's kind of tired, burn him out - tug, chase, training... and maybe you can bypass or reduce the zoomies.

...Don't get complacent, you've probably got about two weeks of 'quiet' before he elevates to the next level of crazy... then a month or so when it may seem even worse, right out of the blue, but is just his reaction to teething and a sore mouth... Continue to focus on your breathing 

You've got it under control... keep training him. Happiness is a warm puppy


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Things definately are looking up! So glad to hear that. These darn puppys are trying, bitey, little brats but just keep reminding yourself that it will get better and already has! I am sure his whining was him telling you " I gotta go again!" I am so glad you found a training place to go to. It isn't so much that you magically can teach your dog during that time but that you learn HOW to teach him. That plus just meeting other people going through the same things. Looking forward to hearing all about your classes with Astro. He really is a handsome dog.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks for the advise hanksimon. I'll definitely give the burn-out a try tonight. And we know he's not stupid, its just our perception. It is tough not to think he's dumb from our perspective when he's eating a rock but to him I'm sure he has a perfectly good reason.

And complacency hopefully won't become an issue. I haven't introduced a lot of new behaviors recently beyond perfecting "stay" when opening his crate or exercise pen, the backdoor, or putting his water bowl down. I'm also heavily reinforcing "come" and "sit" because those are sort of my go-to commands when he's getting into mischief. 

Today I want to introduce him to "lie down" and "leave it". If I get a chance I'll check out some of the kikopup videos and others about how best to go about those commands. 

He made another poop today in his exercise pen though I think we caught him about 1/4th the way through it. Easy enough to clean up. It was another case of having just taken him out for 5 minutes or so and him not going number two straight to me putting him in his exercise pen for about five minutes while I clean up for work. I walked back out and thought to myself "why does he have two chicken nylabones... wait a second...". At least this time he finished the rest outside.

We're switching his food over the course of the next 12 days to 4Health Puppy Formula since he seems to do well with grains and it is more cost effective and essentially has the same "star rating" from petfoodadvisor as the TOTW he's getting now. I already measured it all out into tupperwares. He'll be on 75% TOTW 25% 4health for 4 days, 50% and 50% for 4 days, then 25% TOTW and 75% 4health for 4 days. Luckily we have a Tractor Supply in each of the three towns surrounding us.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

As you switch food, watch his energy, pooping, and schedule. I made careful notes of my puppy's growth and weight, but didn't pay attention when I switched his food. ... If I had, I would have realized that he has the cast iron stomach of a goat, alerting me to react more quickly when he had irregularities, treating them quickly. Most dogs have a problem with new food - mine doesn't. So, when he has a problem, I know to look beyond just something that he ate, rather than waiting a few days for it to clear up.

Another example is that I recently switched my dog's food. Everything seemed fine, but he was a little sluggish. When I checked the package, I discovered that the current food has fewer calories, so I was feeding him 25% less than before... and I caught it before he started losing weight... or looking at me like a Happy Meal


----------



## RitaNg123 (Sep 27, 2012)

hikeon3 said:


> I appreciate the posts of encouragement y'all. Sometimes that's what it takes. We're trying to do things right, so telling my friends/family about the issue usually prompts them to tell me something like "just chain him outside" or "keep him in the garage" or "put him on his back and hold him down" or "tap him on the nose and tell them 'no'". Telling them that I'm attempting to raise Astro with positive reinforcement usually gets a blank stare..


I hear ya!!! We have a lot of friends come over, and I think they think we spoil our dog, or are not hard enough on the dog because we don't yell at her, or spank her, or "smack" her nose when she is doing things that WE see as being naughty.

The way I try to look at it, is that all the hard work will pay off in the end (I hope, anyways) as well as the energy and effort it takes to be positive and consistent with puppies. 

I agree with the idea of charting their pooping and such. Mine is now kind of on a routine where she will 100% poo and pee first thing in the morning, but not again for around 5-6 hrs from the time she finishes eating her first meal of the day. She is also gated during that 5-6 hours and doesn't like to mess up her precious space. So basically she is taken out first thing in the morning, eats, gets taken out when the next person wakes up (3 days out of the week I wake up earlier, 2 days my husband), which is about 2 hrs later, and then not again until around 5-6 hrs later, in which she will 95% pee and poo. And then she eats shortly after, and won't poo again for a few hrs later. So we almost have it down, though it's the times when she has the 'extra' poos that throw us off.

Sounds like you are being very honest and "normal" about raising a puppy. I was so embarrassed to admit to myself about a week ago that I was feeling regret about getting my puppy, b/c she was driving me f'ing crazy. I was so frustrated with her that all I could think to do was ignore her. ANd then she comes and licks my face and looks at me with her puppy dog eyes, and it's just impossible to stay mad.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

I am so so glad you started this thread hikeon3! People are being honest about puppy ownership. You hear all about how sweet and lovable puppies are and then us first-time owners are in total shock when we get these biting, pooping, destructive little twirps. For quite some time I thought I made a horrible mistake and would just cry. I didn't want to admit it either. My husband had convinced me to get a puppy instead of a cat. Cats I had experience with....not puppies! Anyway, now that she is a year old (we got her at 8 weeks) I cannot imagine not having her. She is like my little baby now (never thought I would feel that way about a pet.) So...hikeon3.....thank you for being REAL about puppy ownership!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Therre are lots of folks on this Forum who are execellent, experienced dog owners and trainers, but would never choose to own a puppy, because of all the problems. There are also many of us that love the idea of raising a puppy... and know what we're in for. I have a standing joke that I post, when people post that they've adopted a Lab or Lab-mix, b/c I believe that the puppies are some of the cutest and more difficult to raise in contrast to the adult, which is what most people see, which is calm, friendly, and well-behaved. It's not that a Lab is really the worst or the best, but I think the contrast may be the largest. Plus Lab puppies easily draw blood when they nip. And, they also seem to be a mix of furry piranha, Tasmanian Devil, goat, and vampire. Happily, those blend into a teddybear....

You've mentioned the next issue, the one that needs a definitive book, the hardest part of raising a puppy: family, friends, and neighbors who sabotage your efforts. You have to be tough and disciplined, b/c one piece of turkey skin under the table, one smack in the nose, one encouraging "jump on me!", one sniff of a dog in heat, and so on from a well-meaning but careless person can unravel your hard efforts.
1. My pup was obedient at 6 mos, loose leash, calm greeting, good walk, no humping.
2. I walked him everyday - three different neighbors encouraged him to juimp on them ... Naively, I let them....until he doubles his weight.
3. One neighbor slipped him snacks, even an entire hamburger.... he looks for snacks from people, now.
4. One neighbor and one clerk in PetsMart encouraged him to bark... now he barks at lots of people, as a greeting.
5. We 'discovered' a dog in heat at the dog park .... He re-learned to hump at 8 yo.
6. A stranger comes up behind him at PetsMart and hugs him ... nothing happens... I just threw that in 

So, I've learned some phrases (probably from Ian Dunbar):
1. I'm sorry, he can't have food, petting, a lick of ice cream, etc. .... "Because he's in training." This works much better with kids thana adults.
2. "Yes, we used to use that method of training 30 years ago, but now we have better, scientifically-based approaches" that are kinder, gentler, more effective, faster, cheaper, more humane.
3. "Yes, I've seen those methods. I think those are for aggressive dogs and really shouldn't be used at home, except by a professional..." My dog doesn't look aggressive, does he... are you scared of him? [Obviously don't do this with a large dog... even a fluffly Golden, since some people are scared of ALL large dogs. (I'm more scared of armpit piranhas!)


----------



## RitaNg123 (Sep 27, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> Therre are lots of folks on this Forum who are execellent, experienced dog owners and trainers, but would never choose to own a puppy, because of all the problems. There are also many of us that love the idea of raising a puppy... and know what we're in for. I have a standing joke that I post, when people post that they've adopted a Lab or Lab-mix, b/c I believe that the puppies are some of the cutest and more difficult to raise in contrast to the adult, which is what most people see, which is calm, friendly, and well-behaved. It's not that a Lab is really the worst or the best, but I think the contrast may be the largest. Plus Lab puppies easily draw blood when they nip. And, they also seem to be a mix of furry piranha, Tasmanian Devil, goat, and vampire. Happily, those blend into a teddybear....
> 
> You've mentioned the next issue, the one that needs a definitive book, the hardest part of raising a puppy: family, friends, and neighbors who sabotage your efforts. You have to be tough and disciplined, b/c one piece of turkey skin under the table, one smack in the nose, one encouraging "jump on me!", one sniff of a dog in heat, and so on from a well-meaning but careless person can unravel your hard efforts.
> 1. My pup was obedient at 6 mos, loose leash, calm greeting, good walk, no humping.
> ...


SUCH good advice here. I am one of the most passive people in the world, so when our friends come over and say stupid things, or do stupid things, I just kind of sit there, uncomfortable. 

The other day while I was upstairs getting ready to go out, my husband and friends were downstairs hanging out. A few minutes later I peeked my head out from upstairs and we started having a conversation about hitting dogs, and I said that we don't hit her, and our friend said, "Oh, I don't hit the dogs, but your puppy just grabbed the sleeve of my sweater, so I smacked her in the nose." Uhm, what??? I know to 95% of the population, this is not a big deal. I was appalled, but being the passive person I am, I just stood there, and at least my husband said, "Uhhh, in this house we don't hit our dogs..."

It amazes me when people feel it's appropriate to discipline other people's dogs. 

A few days later, these same people were over for dinner, and the puppy was nipping. My husband and I have been working on the bite inhibition thing, and doing the "ouch" and ignore thing. We'd noticed the progress. Then she starts nipping our friend, and he pins her down. It's very hard for me to be the kind of person to say, "Uhh, wtf are you doing?????" so instead I've been trying to role model things for them. When puppy is grabbing into sleeves or whatnot, I will grab one of her toys and switch.

I also try to be proactive on some things before they happen. So as I am eating chips or whatever, I'll randomly say, "Yeah, I'm being so disciplined about not ever giving her food that I'm eating also. I know that if I do, she's gonna be begging all the time," so that hopefully it gets into their head not to feed her, or to ask if they can give her this or that.

Really good advice, Hanksimon. Wish I had thought about the impact of them earlier on!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

That is definitely a concern of mine. Especially in that my best friend is coming to visit for a week and will be seeing the dog quite a bit during the day. He comes from a home that has always dealt in the "old school" so Astro may come out of that week either really confused at what this big man is trying to tell him or traumatized to male strangers. Neither is ideal.

So a few questions have arised in my skull that I pose to anyone/everyone willing to offer a wise word.

1. When I'm outside waiting for Astro to go number two and he forgets why we're out there and begins eating plants/rocks/mulch/dirt and essentially just exploring the yard; should I be standing there doing nothing and waiting for him to remember how much he has to poop? Or taking him back inside immediately when his focus wanders? I've tried both, and it's sort of a catch 22. Taking him inside risks him remembering how much he had to go and just going, but leaving him outside just seems like I'm basically letting him be destructive outside on his own terms and standing in observation. And the leash is not an option yet.

2. We're teaching him a schedule, but it is a bit problematic. He will sleep soundly from 9pm to about 1am for his first potty break. After that he is VERY active in his crate until about 5am when I get up and take him out. I believe it is because he gets to nap from 7am to about 11:30am when my wife arrives home to take him out. I don't mind that so much except for the fact that he keeps us up in the morning hours scratching about and squeaking his toys then from about 5am to 7am we are privvy to his final snappy bitey nippy generally difficult hours before a long midday nap before we head out to work. What is generally the best way to help mold his sleeping schedule?

3. Separation is still an issue for him. If he is confined and we are in the same room as him he stays pretty mellow. If we leave the room, he flips out and recently unless we're leaving the house entirely being in a different room makes him poop in his playpen. At nght if I get up and leave the bedroom to use the restroom he will usually begin crying. We've found that a kong with cream cheese smeared along the inside of it is a good distraction, but don't want to have to give him a food treat with each exit. What other tactics can we use here to break him of this?

Thanks in advance y'all. We feel like things are smoothing over little by little every day. There are still plenty of challenges ahead but we feel more equipped to handle them as we gain experience and continue seeking advice.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

@RitaNG - Those are good points you bring up.
1. If my dog humps another dog...regardless of the interaction... I keep quiet if the Ownerdoes something to my dog (except taking a stick etc.)
However, if a nosy bystander even raises their voice at my dog, I'll nuke them, saying they could get bitten that way... None of their business.
(Plus, my dog is a neutered lover not a fighter ... he may try to rape a dog, but he won't be aggressive about it  )
2. So, if my dog jumps on someone and they knee him, then I keep the dog from abusing the person. So, if I run into a 'trainer' that calls my dog, and then knees the dog... keeping the dog away eliminates the confrontation... Anticipation is best... You learn, the pup recovers and adapts.
My dog doesn't jump (or approach) people that have kneed him in the past .... both parties are 'happy.'
3. Feeding the dog under the table has been a little harder, but I've gotten to know who I can trust and who I need to hide the dog from.
4. Interestingly, my Vet feeds snacks to my dog. She does 'bad' things to him, then gives him a treat, and they have a terrific relationship. He will bark at her to get more treats... then she remembers that she opened Pandora's box ... but I figure I can let this one slide.

@hikeon
1. Poop duty - The two methods that I'm aware of is to take him back in after 5 min., monitoring for an accident, bringing him back out in 30 -60 min. ... or using a leash to confine him to one place. Typically, a dog may pee in 30 sec. after coming outside, then sniff for 5 min. or so, and possibly get distracted, rather than poop ... perhaps forgetting? Even my 12 yo, who stays in the backyard a lot, can spend 15 min. sniffing all the critters etc. that may have come through our suburban backyard for th elast poop at night. If you let them explore, they will. 

2. Night terror: I believe that he's nipping b/c he may be overtired and have a last bit of energy to burn before he naps. As far as him, given your schedule, I don't think there's much to do until he grows out of it in a few months. However, if he has a reasonable potty schedule, I don't see why you should suffer through his night time partying... so you might consider moving his crate further away ... you just need to be able to hear whining... Let's see what other folks say...

3. Separation - There's nothing wrong with a Kong of his portion of food spaced out through the day, even in anticipation of Your potty schedule  I like peanut butter better than cream cheese b/c I think it's less messy... but even a Kong with Kibble and water, frozen works. 

Another thing you can try is to cover the crate with a sheet or towel, so that he can't see your coming and going. Just make sure he can't bite it and pull it into the crate, ripping it to shreads...

He's young, these things will get better.... and he'll replace with other behaviors. At 10.5 weeks, I think he should be getting better with the leash ... Maybe we can help with that and specific issues ?


----------



## RitaNg123 (Sep 27, 2012)

One of the things I've noticed with my puppy, is that sometimes I need to help her "get back on track" when we are outside. She is pretty good about going pee, but sometimes she will be sniffing around and I think she is going to poop, but then she hears another dog somewhere, or someone walks by, or she feels that eating snow and planting her flat face into the snow is more important than pooping, so then I have to say, "Go poo poo, Muffin, go poo poo," and then she remembers what she was doing. 

Early on, when she would be peeing/pooping outside, I would say, "Go pee pee go pee pee" so that she would associate the action with those words. Poor puppy, probably wondering why she can't even take a piss or sh_t in peace without my annoying words! Not sure if that will do anything for your situation, but it seems to be something that has been helpful for me...but that's only if I am pretty certain she has to go anyways. I have a fairly good sense of her poo schedule now, so if she doesn't go around the time I expect her to, I either have to watch her VERY carefully when she is out and about around the house or just put her back in her gated area for a bit and hope that the next hour that we go out, she will go.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree with hanksimon about moving the crate further away. You're taking him out plenty, so if he wants to be nocturnal, let him do it further away from your bed. I'd also take away all squeaky toys - just leave him with a kong or something. If he doesn't have anything else to play with, he may decide he's bored enough to sleep (or he may make more of a racket, but something to try). 

I also agree with the kong every time you leave. We have a bunch of kong toys and put a little bit of peanut butter and kibble in each and store them in the freezer (I like the bone shape for this, as the openings are smaller and good for just a few pieces of kibble, rather than a whole meal). Every time our pup goes in his create, even after a bathroom break in the middle of the night, he gets a new kong. He does cry sometimes if he's cleaned it out and he knows we're still in the house, but at that point we just ignore and he stops within 5min. That initial moment of going into the crate should always be really positive.

I agree that leash walking should be ok now by 11 weeks. What have you been trying? How often have you been trying it? In your situation, I'd just put the leash on the puppy all the time, and use it for every potty break. He's not going to learn to walk with it unless you just jump in and use it all the time. Pretend you don't have a fenced in yard and see how you get on after a day or two. Keep high value treats in your pocket to distract him from the leash once in a while and lure him to walk next to you.


----------



## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

everyone has made really good points, so the only advice i have is hang in there!

all of this will pay off, and you'll get a wonderful dog out of it. puppies can be AWFUL, but the work you put in pays off for over a decade.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree that he doesn't need to make noise, but he does need something to chew on to help burn off a little energy. A bored, calm pup/dog will go to sleep. A bored, 'anxious' pup will whine or chew destructively (kinda like a smoker).

@RitaNG - Puppies are curious, distractable, novelty-seeking, learning machines. That's why they can learn all sorts of amazing behavors and tricks in only two weeks in short sessions, but you can't keep them focused for long. Look a Squirrel !!! ... I have a theory that if you cram as much exposure to learning and play and new experiences this early, with no concern about perfection or distraction, then you'll create an amazing learning machine... I'm not even sure it has to be very early. KBLover has taught Wally a number of cool behaviors, and I believe this may be his first training. Chaser the BC knows 1000 unique toy names, and many more related cues with each toy. I believe that the owner stopped b/c he got tired of teaching  My dog knows 200 verbal and hand signals (maybe more, I stopped counting) and he loves to learn, but I got tired of training (and feel guilty about it.). Squirrel!! .... 

If you try to stay aware of this, you might be able to anticipate and use it. Turid Rugaas, a Norwegian trainer - (Google: Calming Signals for the next level of communicating with your dog) - suggests that you load a tongue click like a conventional clicker (but not as precise), then use the tongue click when you want to distract the dog, to avoid a disruptive distraction [such as a Squirrel!!!]. It sounds like your method is working... and that's always the point for your individual dog.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Made some excellent strides today with the leash. I snapped it onto him in the kitchen and of course it became his sole focus of chewing. So after letting him get a little bored of it, I got his attention with a squeaky toy and started playing toss/fetch back and forth around the kitchen. He mostly stopped chewing the leash. After that we went outside and I let him drag the leash out with him. Once outside I picked the leash up and he of course fought me like crazy, biting and pulling, but after a minute or so gave up and just started wandering around the yard. I followed close by trying to keep the leash loose. I praised him like mad and fed him treats while walking with me on the leash and not biting it. But whenever I tried to apply pressure to the leash to sort of direct him to follow me, he would usually bite the leash. After a few more tried he started ignoring the leash mostly. He got tired pretty quick, so we went back inside on leash and once inside he was pretty good. I had him sit a few times on the leash and fed him treats for ignoring it, but then he started chewing it again and I took it off. It's nap time for him anyways.

Good step in the right direction I hope.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Sounds really good! Try to keep him by your left leg with treats - start by luring, then holding your hand down without a treat, then just walking and randomly rewarding. I like the clicker or a marker like "yes" for this. Jackpot reward if he looks up at you before you offer the treat or give the marker.

Going nuts when you put pressure on the leash is normal, but he'll get over it. If he pulls off in one direction, hits the leash, then starts bucking like a bronco or chewing on it, just pull out something yummy (or a toy) and try to get him back on track. 

I think once he realizes that being on leash gives him access to really interesting places (like the street in front of your house) he'll be more interested in sniffing and looking around than chewing the leash (and then you'll have a new set of problems to work through ;-)


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Good advice from elrohwen, except I'd suggest a slight tweak to this: 
"If he pulls off in one direction, hits the leash, then starts bucking like a bronco or chewing on it, just pull out something yummy (or a toy) and try to get him back on track."

I can see luring as a way of distracting him from fighting the leash, as elrohwen said. But just be careful not to inadvertantly encourage this behavior, IE teaching him that fighting the leash makes you pull out treats.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Canyx said:


> Good advice from elrohwen, except I'd suggest a slight tweak to this:
> "If he pulls off in one direction, hits the leash, then starts bucking like a bronco or chewing on it, just pull out something yummy (or a toy) and try to get him back on track."
> 
> I can see luring as a way of distracting him from fighting the leash, as elrohwen said. But just be careful not to inadvertantly encourage this behavior, IE teaching him that fighting the leash makes you pull out treats.


Yes, agreed! Once the bucking like a bronco stopped, I switched to being a tree, then rewarding when he refocused on me and the walk. I do like the lure though for those freak out moments during the first week or so of leash training with a new puppy.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

If you have a high value treat such as cheese, liver treats, or boiled chicken and you shove a fingernail sized piece into his nose, sometimes he'll calm down to eat. 

Random training suggestion: Sometimes when you're training and both of you are getting frustrated b/c he doesn't get it, the conventional recommendation is to take a break. However, if it is early in the training session, sometimes you just toss him a treat for free. It's a judgment call, only done once or twice at random during a training session...


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

today's leash work was not so good. I spent about 20 minutes trying to get him to ignore the leash. But as soon as I pick it up he latches on like a fish at the end of a line. I tried walking around a little bit with him latched on to see if he'd drop it eventually, but he just falls onto his back and refuses to go any further. It was incredibly frustrating. I cursed at him and berated him in praise tones. It made me feel better. After that I just picked up the stick he was eating and started playing fetch with him. Seemed much more fun for him. But then he found a rock and I had to get creative about finding a way to get it out of his mouth before he swallowed it. Oh, then he found a stink bug and tried to eat it. He started spitting violently and rolling around in the grass. Was humorous. He also found a fire ant hill and decided to dig. As soon as I saw him jumping and yelping I just picked his furry butt up and took him inside. He's been asleep for two hours. Two blessed, beautiful hours.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

I am glad to hear your humor today! My pups favorite thing is to latch onto the end of a kitchen towel and have me drag her all over the house. Really. It is her most favorite thing in the world to do! She used to do it with her leash but for some reason has stopped that...thank goodness. Just keep at it. I swear my pup did most of what your's is doing and the only thing that helped me was TIME. At one year old she is pretty darn good now. Has some little quirks but I am beginning to think they all do. Hope your wife is feeling better about Astro too.:wave:


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

After you cuss him out, you are allowed to pick him up and put him back on four feet. If a dog is truly scared and submissive, you shouldn't do that... but when puppies are having a temper tantrum or a "I'm a cute puppy that won't hurt anyone" submissive attempt, sometimes if you right them, they will continue as if nothing happened.

... good time to get used to sticking your hand in his slimy mouth to pull out 'bad stuff.' Supposedly he'll learn about stink bugs and fire ants... although mine will still stand or lie down on ant beds in the grass.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Oh the cursing took place after he was off his leash entirely. I would never do that while he's on his back. I was marching around tossing his stick and telling him how "special" he is for attacking his leash. It's getting to the point where I snarl at anyone I see walking their dog because mine is too stubborn to remember the fifteen different "conditioning" exercises I've done to make him ignore the leash.

I've never seen an "alpha roll" performed, so I can't confirm that I've done it now. But last night while I was doing his handling exercises with him, he was EXTRA fidgety, so I held him in place on my lap while I finished. He was growling a lot so I would calmly and quietly shoosh him but firmly hold him in place while I touched his paws, claws, ears, tail, teeth, etc. About 4 times he would try to wrestle free and start growling. I'd firmly hold him, shoosh him calmly and quietly, and put his nylabone in his mouth. He settled down after that. I'm hoping that wasn't too harsh and made him afraid of me or trust me less. I was very calm and gentle, but firm the entire exercise.

We've opened up his freedom a bit more, allowing him access to more areas of the house. I have to watch him like a hawk now because he has access to the coffee table, the computer desk, the sofa, and the TV stand. Also, the hall to the bedroom is not visible from the kitchen or living room, so I have to follow him over there when he wanders there. It's been a good opportunity to kind of allow him to experience other areas so we can show him what is appropriate. He doesn't seem to grasp it that well yet, but he'll get there sooner or later. Once he's sniffed the house out entirely a few times maybe he will get bored of it. We're still blocking off the front room and the upstairs, so he only has about 1400 square feet of space to explore. Probably more like 1,000sqft if you discount our room/bathroom/closet but he does come in there at night to sleep in his crate.

Today we are going to an orientation for a training facility closer to the city. It offers a few classes we want to get him into to socialize him and work on some behaviors. Most importantly walking on a leash. Professional help may be necessary here.

Oh, and pulling stuff out of his mouth isn't a problem. I do it as often as I can (rocks, wood chips, most recently a mushroom cap I'm fairly certain is poisonous). The problem is catching him. He thinks it is a game when he picks up nefarious objects. He looks at me immediately and puts his butt in the air ready to flee before my approach. He's a rascal.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

You're doing great!

When he gets ready to run, and you don't think that you can catch him, sometimes if you run the other way... he'll try to catch you... Good method for when he escapes... rather than trying to chase him.

Sounds like your gentle holding is fine. You have to be able to hold him still for the Vet, for brushing, nail clipping, teeth cleaning etc.

An Alpha Roll is a fairly violent behavior that provides no value. You throw the dog on its back, and sometimes you hold its head or neck, and get into its face and yell or growl at it. As you can guess, people can lose a nose that way. I played very roughly with my dog when he was young. So, one day when I got very angry at him, lost it and did an alpha roll, he licked me and waited for me to rub his belly... while I growled at him. Happily, when I've lost my temper and tried physical punishment ... he thought I was playing. The worst successful punishment that I've used ... and still use is that I make him Sit, when he's off leash. I don't think that he really understand (even though I feel better), b/c when I release him, he chases after me... 

Putting your dog on his back is not necessarily bad. My dog will drop voluntarily and look at me to get his belly rubbed. However, if I'm going to do something he doesn't like, such as put meds into his ear, he will drop on his back submissively, and turn his head away... However, when the Vet does it, he licks her nose .... she's more confident with medicating his ears


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

My training class (all positive reinforcement so far, including clickers) recommends holding puppies down (on their side, or back) until they stop squirming as handling training. I'm not a huge fan of holding a flailing puppy down, and prefer to do my handling training with more gradual conditioning, but I've tried it and he has started to settle much more quickly. He thinks I'm playing the whole time though, so there's no fear when it's over - get gets a treat for finally being still, then he pops up and wants to play again.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree with you that for "control," training, or punishment... I don't like to hold a puppy. But, for restraining purposes, on its own, I think its important. Also, handling everywhere, mouth, ears, eyes, genitals, paws, etc. And, I like "surprise" training, where you play with the puppy, and say boo! as a part of a game, gradually escalating the game so that *When* a child (or clueless adult  ) comes up behind your dog and hugs it, the dog gets surprised but not scared.... licking and not biting...

On the other hand, there is a non-aversive, counter-intuitive method for stopping a dog (not puppy) that jumps on people upon greeting on-leash. When someone is approaching you, and you anticipate that your dog will jump, first you try Sit. If that doesn't work, then you try Down, the next time. If that doesn't work, you cue the dog Down, and then step on the leash to hold him there. No violence and minimal contact, but you are restraining the dog. When I first heard this method, it sounded heartless. But when I tried it, my dog struggled a little, no flailing, trying to get up, then he stopped, got bored, and went to sleep while I talked with a neighbor. So, I don't see a problem with gentle restraint...


----------



## asc6429 (Nov 6, 2012)

Hi Hikeon3! I'm a new member here and found your thread. Just wanted to pop in and say hi and thanks to you (and everyone else!!) for properly preparing me for a puppy we may be getting in January. I must say, this thread has been an eye opener -- thank you for being honest with the issues and frustrations of getting a new puppy.

And it sounds like things are improving, keep smiling!!!! -- keep us updated on your progress.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

@asc6429 Welcome. Always like new members and new puppy pictures. If you don't see answers to help you prepare for your new arrival, please feel free to start a new thread to ask specific questions, so they don't get lost here.

Also, here are two free downloads that may help: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm glad my experience here is of value to someone. It has been a real eye opener for us as well. Puppies are cute and playful and often remind you of why you got them in the first place; but they are challenging, frustrating, exhausting, and change your life completely. I didn't know how much so until we got Astro. I'm taking everyone on their word that it is worth it in the long run but I'll be honest; right now I don't even _like_ the little booger all that much. We are definitely dog people, I'm not sure if we are or ever will be puppy people. The only certainty we have is that puppies do eventually become dogs.

Last night we went to a training place and did the orientation. There we met a couple who adopted a puppy 1 day older than Astro from the very same rescue. We both remember each others' puppies from the website and the visits! It was encouraging to hear that they were having many of the very same problems we were. Especially that their lab mix pup is also eating the leash instead of walking on it. Also Astro lately has been exhibiting what I see as defiance but really I think it is just frustration; he growls and gets snappy when I give commands. Not all of the time, just about 5% of the time. And I was worried that Astro was maybe kind of dumb because he tries to eat the floor (he grasps the carpet with his teeth and tugs at it and also opens his jaw all the way to try and chew the flat linoleum floor) but they confirmed that their pup also does these things.

The only problem was the meeting started at 8pm and we didn't get home until 9:45pm which is well past Astro's (and our) bedtime. Not only that but I'm also sure he was napping while we were at the meeting. So when we got home he was primed for action, not bedtime. So he went into his crate and became an explosion of energy. He fell asleep sporadically but woke up quite often. Most notable this morning around 4:30am he woke up and got a hold of one of the frayed ends of the blanket we tossed over his crate. He pulled it mostly into his crate and half destroyed it. Then he started headbutting the door to his crate, presumably trying to open it. Needless to say I didn't sleep so well. I think tonight his crate goes out to the kitchen.

So because it is mandatory, here are some pictures taken this morning.
Astro looking up at mom's phone
Practicing "stay" while dad takes pictures
More tug-rope, please?


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

You've successful run the test of fire. We didn't tell you in the beginning, but puppies are different than Lab puppies. In fact a Lab puppy is a completely different species than an Adult Lab. Lab puppies are cute ... so that you won't drown them... but don't try, because they love water (See: Brer Rabbit and the Briar Patch). A Lab pups is a chimera in the canine world, a mix of teddy bear with piranha teeth, part goat with the persistence of a wood chipper, the Eveready bunny on steroids, and a vampire if your fingers or nose get too close. But they forgive our mistakes. .... but just wait until you give him some cues during training ... and you see that he not only obeys... but he understands!

His goal is to visit and play right now. Sitting stops playing, so his independent streak generates his backtalk. When you are sure that he understands the cue and the behavior, I suggest that you fine tune what you reward. For example, Sit! He barks or growls ... then you stop, maybe break eye contact for a moment. Then say Astro, Sit! a second time. if he sits and then growls,barks... again stop, break eye contact for a 5 count. Then a third time say Astro, Sit! ... if he growls, repeat as before. If he sits and is comparatively quiet (don't need perfection, yet), then praise and give him 3 small treats. Repeat. Your goal is to get 5 good behaviors in a row... then go on to something else. Don't assume success until to can reproduce this 3 days in a row. Then, work for Sit at every door, gate, entry, car (in and out), etc. You may have to retrain in different places, but he'll get it. You might keep a record of the words (and handsignals!!!) that he knows, and how well he knows them. You'll see a well-defined pattern that will help with training. After I taught my dog to Sit, I taught him a hand signal... Took about two weeks. But when I taught him Down, and the hand signal, it took about 2 days... although it took a week or two to teach him to discriminate relably between Sit and Down. 

You might also consider letting the two puppies play, once a week, maybe on the weekend, in the morning... so that you can have the remainder of the day to bask in the glory that is a well-tuckered puppy. (Bring a camera!)

At this age, your puppy is outgoing, intelligent, and a learning machine. When you figure out the best method for you and him, you can start teaching him as much as you want, and he'll start learning your tone, body language, gestures, and facial expressions. 

I suggest that you go back to the beginning of this thread and read where you started. Ya'll have come a long way!!!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

It is so true hanksimon! We have come a long way. I'm taking a deep breath and realizing that we are being mostly successful. We still have a long way to go!

Tomorrow is going to be a real test. I am bringing him to work with me for half a day (he will be baby-gated into my cubicle with me) and then we're going to puppy pre-school tomorrow at noon. I'm not sure how he will behave here at work nor in the car, or if he'll even walk on the leash from the car to the office or to the preschool. It is going to be quite the adventure...

Then on Thursday he gets fixed. Thursday night will be a long night, or so I hear. Baby steps... baby steps...


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I fear that after tomorrow at work, you may decide to do worse than get him fixed... 

You might try doing something to get him tired before work, and bringing two frozen Kongs to chew on. Plan for one accident per hour, and be relieved if proven wrong 

Gettting fixed is more traumatic for the male owner than for the pup. ... I'm not up on the current process but:
1. You take him in the morning, they use human grade anesthesia, they may use internal stitches.
2. The Vet should give you a 1 - 3 page handout, 3 days worth or pain meds, maybe antibiotics, as well as a phone number to call.
3. Ask to borrow an Elizabethian collar - soft collar is easier, so that he doesn't chew the area. 
4. Thursday night, he may be groggy or fine, depends on the pup. Friday morn., he may be ready to play. He also may forget lots of his discipline and training...be patient... everything will be fine and back to normal when the Vet releases him.
5. Labs are very tough, so the surgery may not faze him. Give him te meds anyway, it'll keep him more comfortable. One benefit of th eLab's toughness... is that I was able to tell my dog "Don't lick" and he'd stop, even though I'd never trained it.
6. If you've been keeping track of his growth every month, you may notice that he doesn't grow quite as much this month... that'll change...
7. Talk to the Vet about reducing the amount of food that you give him ... only if you recognize that he's getting 'fluffly' ... as a pup he's still growing, so it may be better to keep feeding the same amount... You and your Vet can determine it. BTW, most Vets will NOT volunteer that your dog is fat, unless you ask.... And, it's real easy for a Lab to get fat, and they hold it well.... like a High School football player


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm packing a puppy disaster pack including a few towels, nature's miracle, and bringing several frozen kongs to keep him busy for a little while. I just got done cleaning/sanitizing my floor here. I don't know how I'm going to pull this off. I'm debating bringing his crate in but I also want him to meet everyone here at the office. Problem is he's very likely to lick up a staple or a dead cricket off of the floor. I think I'm more worried about the staple.

I know that they use dissolvable stitches (they perform the surgery at the rescue clinic) and coat it with some kind of glue that prevents the pup from licking them and prematurely dissolving those stitches. I'm hoping they load me up with some puppy painkillers because I'll be dosing relatively highly the first night and on Friday I'll be crushing it into the wet food in his kong that morning with a small dose of benadryl to knock him out for most of the day. 

The little guy could stand to put on a little weight. He's pretty boney right now. I can see his ribs poking out. He's just growing too fast and I can't feed him enough!


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Definitely bring the crate! I think it will be a lifesaver if you need to leave him a couple minutes or he gets overstimulated and crabby.

Keeping puppies on the lean side is really good, so I wouldn't worry too much about his weight - just ask the vet when you go in. There's evidence to say that overfeeding puppies to make them grow faster (which can happen by feeding lots of high calorie puppy food) is detrimental to future joint health, especially in bigger breeds. Keeping him lean and growing at a steady pace will help him in the long run. Plus, with growth spurts, they'll look bony for a bit as the rest of them catches up.


----------



## asc6429 (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks for the warm welcome!! And just know that I am here, totally and 110% rooting for you right now! I'll (hopefully???? haha.. you make me rethink tht... lol) be in the same position as you come January --- YOU CAN DO THIS! :clap2:

Keep us updated on how your little one does at work tomorrow. I was thinking I also wanted to bring mine to work to socialize him (and show him off! haha) but was a little worried about the logistics of it.

Keep on keepin' on. He is soooo cute, and I do have to believe it will get better.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Tonight is his first night sleeping in another room. It's been ten minutes and I think he's finally tiring out. Wish us luck.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Last night was interesting for both Astro and I. He was quiet but not having him right next to me made ME anxious! I wanted to know if he was doing okay and to be able to hear him whining to decipher if he had to pee or if he was just whining to whine. What should've been a great night's sleep turned into me awake half the night worrying about Astro.

Today he is here at the office with me until this afternoon when we go to puppy preschool. Getting him here was hard and getting him into the office was an experience (he still hates the leash, though he now accepts it much more easily).
Astro licking under my cubicle like its made of cheese

I work in a mobile trailer out in the sticks, so I'm terribly paranoid that coyotes or stray dogs have peed/pooped all over outside. I found a well-maintained little patch of grass that I took him to to pee, but I'm now worried that he is carrying parvovirus. I'm a wreck!

He won't be sleeping at all here. I'm relatively certain of that. So he's going to be an uncontrollable brat at puppy preschool. Then if he doesn't sleep on the ride home, I will basically be able to drop him in the corner like a sack of potatoes and he'll sleep for a few hours (I hope). I think we've created a little sleepless monster with how much I tire him out only to get a 20 minute nap out of the booger and then he only sleeps half the night. I've been told pups sleep between 16 and 20 hours per day. That's a load of BS. He sleeps about 8-12 if he's asleep 80% of the time we leave him alone during the day.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

His sleeping in another room is supposed to give You more time to sleep 

It's better to be paranoid about Parvo and distemper....

A 20 min. nap is about normal. He'll sleep, wake to look for food or distraction, then sleep for another 20 min. Wash, rinse, repeat...

He may sleep a lot after he gets fixed... then, he'll sleep 16 - 20 hours ... in about 10 years....


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

We have absolutely run him into the ground. Taking him to work this morning and meeting about 15 new people, then to puppy preschool where he did AWESOME and played with two other dogs and learned "down" and a new focus exercise. AND he walked on his leash really well!

I brought him home and put him down for about 1.5 hours of solid nap. He is still majorly tired. We have some friends coming over tonight to meet him and they're bringing their 8 month old boston terrier Izzy. After an hour or so, Astro should be completely tanking. Maybe he (and I) will sleep well tonight; which is great because he has his surgery tomorrow! What a busy few days for the little boy. So much excitement!

The puppy trainer had some good advise for us as to the nipping. My wife has taken to yelping really high-pitched yelps and putting him in time out when he won't stop. Astro will readily bite my wife repeatedly. He doesn't dare test me like that, though.


----------



## asc6429 (Nov 6, 2012)

wow!! sounds like you guys had an awesome day! I was talking to a coworker today who adopted a 1 year old baby and an 8 week old puppy at the same time... she said the puppy was more work! :doh:

I can tell things are getting better for you, you must be so happy! Glad to hear he was great at your work, too. yay success!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Last night could've gone better. Astro was very very tired when our friends showed up so he was a little bit nippy/aggressive with Izzy which prompted a few scuffles. My buddy and I had to keep a close watch on them and over the course of the evening pulled them apart 4-5 times. Astro would get REALLY worked up so I had to calm him down by sort of putting him firmly but gently on his side and calmly "shhhhhhhh"-ing him while he squirmed. When he calmed down I gave him his release word ("Okay!") and he could pop back up. He's definitely gotten used to that as a calming exercise and I've noticed his breathing and heartrate calm down MUCH faster now after a few repeats of it. I worry about using that technique because it seems somewhat forceful, so after they left I let him fall asleep in my lap and stroked him quietly for awhile. He definitely is beginning to trust me more.

He slept like a ROCK last night. I didn't hear a peep out of him until 4:50 this morning when he had to pee. I got him back into his crate and he whined while I attempted to reclaim another 20 minutes or so of sleep. It didn't work. I got up with him but because he's getting neutered today I am not supposed to feed him! He was STARVING all morning. I took the opportunity to use his hunger to reinforce some behaviors (sit, come, stay, *down*, *off*) with kibble pieces. I know I wasn't supposed to feed him anything at all but I did end up getting about 25 pieces of kibble into him and plenty of water.

Arriving at the rescue's clinic seemed traumatic. I carried him in and he started trying to climb over my shoulder. He only does that when he's genuinely scared. When they put him in the crate in the vet's office he cried and I almost did. I walked in there with him to make sure he saw me the entire way. Am I falling in love with this little brat?

Anyways, now he's all I can think about. I hope he's safe and sound and hopefully sleeping, dreaming of our house and how much he loves his crate and his big soft blue blanket and his squeaky dog toy. I hope the surgery doesn't change his brave, curious little personality which I loathe most of the time but get choked up just thinking about. I hope...


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

You are not falling in love with him.... he had you hooked a few weeks ago... I think I could write a very embarrassing book about how easily we fall in love with our new pups.. the girls would love to see how mushy we get.... I might even blackmail wvasko and Pierce 

The approach that you used, breaking them up to calm them down, maybe doing 2 minutes of training, then letting them go back to play is perfect. As he gets a week or two older, you should be able to get him to Sit, Down, Stand, etc. rather than holding him stationary. And, you'll find that teaching him Calming exercises will be useful in other situations.

One thing that was useful for me was that when I put my pup to sleep in my lap, I would gently rub his cheek and repeat "sleep" softly. Later, I'd discovered that I'd taught him to Sleep on cue! It wasn't perfect or even 80%... but it still worked most of the time.


The surgery is going to be very traumatic ... for you... and for you only. He's more scared of being locked away in a strange place, and will be so relieved to see you... when he's fully awake. When he gets home, he'll whine, but it shouldn't be from pain, although there may be some discomfort. Give him his 3 days of pain pills anyway. The trauma for you is going to be keeping him quiet for 7 days. And, in a week when he's released, he may be a little crazed for a few days from that pent up energy. But by Thanksgiving, everything, even you, should be fine.

Bonus Points: Talk about this to your wife for heavy duty brownie points!!! Choice: be a tough guy and hold it in... or tell her everything and get LOTS of attention .... 


BTW, you think the mushiness is bad now, wait until you realize that he understands you and he's starting to adapt to you....


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

You weren't kidding hanksimon. This is traumatic indeed. 

Picking him up went smoothly. They gave me two days worth of tramadol for him. But as soon as we got home I was expecting him to zonk out in his crate and sleep for awhile. Not a chance in hell.

He got zoomies for almost two hours. He was a sprinting nipping growling hungry thirsty little nightmare. I caught a small portion of the madness on video (though the best parts are always happening before/after filming).




He whined a little extra hard in his crate last night and when I got him up in the middle of the night to go out he pooped but didn't pee. I thought that was strange.

This morning he was a nightmare. He was starving so I fed him a normal meal via his kong and gave him some more pain meds. I don't think he really needs the meds though. Then I took him outside and he pooped (he has diarrhea right now). Well as the morning wore on he was REALLY active and wanting to play tug, fetch, everything. Well I needed to get ready for work so I went and jumped in the shower while I put him in the xpen. He whined of course but after showering I began to shave and all of a sudden in trots Astro. The only thing I could think of was that he jumped over the top of his crate and out of the pen (we have the exercise pen hooked up to his crate opening which is about 2/3rds as tall as the pen. So I walk back out to see if he found a breach in the gate and he had pooped all over inside the pen. Not fun since he has diarrhea right now.

So this marks the third time that he has pooped in his playpen in the morning when I've left him to get ready for no longer than 10 minutes. Is this a sign of separation anxiety? Or should I chalk the last two times up to me not reading his bowel signs and this one blame on the surgery/drugs?

Anyways I brought him into work with me today because I'm not sure I want to leave him alone all day today. My wife will be unable to head home at lunch so he'd be solo in his playpen for over 9 hours. He's currently gated into my cubicle with me sleeping. Maybe the tramadol is finally kicking in.


----------



## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Ah, puppies. Perpetual motion/havok/crapping machines. My boyfriend's mum calls their new pup "The Bitch" because she's such a terror. Thank God they grow into dogs, eh? Eventually you'll be able to look back on this and chuckle fondly. Yes, it does pass, I promise. (Although, when Gypsy was a puppy, I had the horrible feeling that she would never, ever, ever grow up.)

About the mess in the pen: it's probably related to his diarrhea and surgery. His tummy is all messed up, and he may have trouble holding it until his poops are normal again. I would take him out more often than usual. But really, it's just a matter of supervising as much as you can and handling any accidents with enzymatic cleaner.

I, and many others, typically recommend offering some 100% pure pumpkin to firm up poops naturally. You may consider that. Though I'd expect he'll be back to normal soon, anyway.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Time for an Astro update.

Friday was exhausting. Bringing him to work and watching him all day left me wanting to pull my hair out and left him so tired he didn't know what to do with himself. We tried introducing him to some kids on Friday evening but he just growled at them, and obviously the kids weren't too excited about it so we put him in his crate and let him nap with a towel over it. He slept for about 2 hours while we babysat then when we got home he slept solid from midnight to 6:30am Saturday morning. No pee break that night. 

Saturday morning was exciting because I took Astro on his first walk around the neighborhood! For 45 minutes we explored the sidewalks, park, numerous landscapes in front of houses, and three different fire hydrants. It was a buffet of smells, sights, sounds, and a great bit of exercise for him! We then left him to go downtown to the football game. He was penned for almost 6 hours and didn't pee. I was very happy with that! We took him to Lowe's with us yesterday afternoon where he met about 20 different people and smelled his way through much of the store. He got a little testy with the leash when we stopped moving and he had smelled everything in the area. I assume that's because he sees the leash as a barrier between him and more smells/sights. Yesterday evening he got another walk in the dark of the night. He did pretty well. He's definitely not a loose-leash walker yet but I can only imagine no dog is without proper training. For now I'm just glad to get him out of the house and well-tuckered-out. 

Last night I tired him out with some indoor tug/fetch before bed and he fell asleep pretty quickly. I let him out one last time around 9:30pm before retiring finally. I planned to see if I could get him through the night and just respond to any whining. That didn't work out as planned. He started whining around 3:50am. I took him outside and not much happened so that was my first warning but I ignored it and put him back in the crate. After making my wife get up to see what he was whining about still 5 minutes later, he still didn't do much outside. We tried ignoring him until about 4:20am when I got up and switched the light on over his crate. He had peed/pooped in the corner. No wonder he was whining. I have to remember even if he has flashes of bladder/bowel control brilliance he's still 12 weeks old and I can't expect it to always be perfect. Lesson learned. A trip to laundry for his sleep blanket and a bit of enzyme cleaner/wiping down the crate tray and everything was as good as new. He was obviously still tired, though, so I sat in his xpen and let him sleep on my lap. That didn't last too long because I was also tired so I just laid on my back and let him nap next to me for about 30 minutes or so. Around 6:30am I took him for a good 40 minute walk. Now he's napping away in his pen. He has a puppy obedience class at 10am this morning so I hope a good hour-long nap recharges his battery just enough to not be a jerk to the other dogs in class.

Today we plan to bring him to our friends' place after class. They are the ones with the Boston Terrier, Izzy. We'll give another try at a play date and hope for the best. The best would be minimal scuffling and two tired dogs. 

I am TIRED y'all!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I think things have changed in 10 years and I need an education  When I had my dog fixed, they used stitches, I had to keep him relatively quiet for 2 - 3 days, and could only give him short walks until his stitches were removed after 7 days. ???

Regardless, Astro should be back to his normal schedule in a week or two.

You can continue training him, now. ... And, I'm a little interested in why he growled at the kids? If it is just surgery-grumpy, that's expected. Otherwise, a puppy should love to play with kids ? 

All in all sounds like like good socialization exercises...

Don't know if anyone mentioned it:
Google: "loose Leash" "silky Leash" kikopup "Turid Rugaas ... my dog pulls"


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> I think things have changed in 10 years and I need an education  When I had my dog fixed, they used stitches, I had to keep him relatively quiet for 2 - 3 days, and could only give him short walks until his stitches were removed after 7 days. ???


The stitches they give them now are internal and dissolvable. I guess their body just absorbs them. They also put tissue glue on them to protect from licking/biting at the incision area. Well I think we've avoided any problems at this point and are sort of "out of the woods" so to speak. He hasn't shown a lot of interest in the area and it looks infection free to this point. He doesn't even know anything happened. I'm adjusting his rations to compensate but not too much. From 2.25 cups to 2 cups and we'll see how his weight fares for now. He still gets a lot of training treats and wet food in his kong. 

Today went pretty well. He was a tired mess in puppy obedience class (he is better than any other puppy at "stay" and his release word "okay!" because we NILIF him with his water, food, and access through doors/gates) but it was a great social experience for him. He met about 10 new dogs and 50 new people. After puppy obedience we went to a coffee shop with some friends and then to a restaurant for lunch. He stayed in my arms most of the time and slept for part of it but met a lot of people. Everyone loves a puppy. 

After that we went to our friends' apartment where Astro played with Izzy all afternoon. They had a few scuffles but for the most part got along famously. They both got tired and fell asleep while my buddy and I caught the second half of the afternoon NFL games. 

Now Astro is home and has a kong cleaned out in his crate and is snoozing away. He has some major sleep to catch up on. It was a big day and I feel like socialization is going very well for him. From here we really need to focus on bite inhibition, socialization with more puppies and children, and loose-leash walking. Oh, and housetraining. He did pee twice in our friends' apartment and poop once in the spare bedroom. I know dogs don't generalize, so it boils down to my mistake in treating the situation like a situation at home where Astro knows to go to the backdoor and paw at the door. In the apartment he had no idea what to do except just eliminate where and when he could. Luckily our friends have a nine-month old puppy themselves so some enzyme cleaner was still under the sink. That and they are very patient and kind people.

Astro had a big day and so did we. Tomorrow back to our weekday routine with a few walks mixed in. I'm looking forward to teaching Astro to walk on my right side and work on "heel" with him.


----------



## asc6429 (Nov 6, 2012)

sounds like things are going well!! i loved the video, haha.. so funny!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

This is why I like puppies... I've forgotten, or accept the other stuff.

Your housetraining incident reminded me of something from long ago. I don't trust my 12 yo dog in new areas, so I watch him closely. He's not going to have an accident, he's going to have a minor 'anxiety', new location, marking incident.

Since you're in training, I imagine that Astro has all his shots and is up to date for the public. You might consider PetsMart, b/c it will help you be more alert for him peeing in the store.

When I first started walking my dog in PetsMart, I didn't like the idea, but couldn't figure out why it left a bad feeling. Then I realized that I didn't like an indoors place where dogs were allowed to potty... it goes against their house-training. My dog would smell another dog's accident and decide that it was a good place to go, or he'd get upset by an unsocialized dog, and he'd go off to mark an endcap... But the point is that I learned to pick up on his signals much more quickly and accurately, and if I was paying attention  ... I could stop him...


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Time for an Astro update before I kill this thread.

The last few days have been eventful but simultaneously relatively enjoyable. Monday was interesting. We left Astro in his playpen for the day and had it hooked up to his open crate. We keep the door open so he can't use the crate face like a ladder to climb out of the pen. Well after my wife went to check on him at lunchtime, he managed to get his crate door shut and slip out for awhile. When I got him, I found a few pieces of evidence but Astro had managed to climb back into the playpen! My backpack had been pulled off of the kitchen counter, there was a shredded mail flyer on the ground in the living room, and there was a pee puddle on the carpet. But there was Astro, in his exercise pen waiting for me when I got home. I was both confused and impressed because the destruction was pretty minimal. Things could've gone a LOT worse.

Tuesday was great. Astro didn't mess in his crate at all between morning and lunch or lunch and when i got home. We had friends coming over in the evening so as soon as I got home I took him on a walk for about 45 minutes and got home to help the wife prepare some food. Our friends loved Astro and he got along with them very well. Astro got really tired as the night wore on and ended up curled up in the corner asleep by about 10pm. He slept solid through the night except for our one potty break at 1:45am and then started some light whining around 5am. 

He is still having some issues nipping at clothes but we're working on that. He definitely doesn't listen to me during distractions. If he gets into our bedroom he will tear around like a madman finding anything and everything to play with despite my commands to come to me, sit, or anything else. Walking is going very well. Right now I'm more focused on letting him experience cars, other walkers and dogs, kids playing, birds, all the sights and sounds of the suburban outdoors. He doesn't walk pretty yet. He does get really tired after a good 45 minute walk though.

Tonight is the first of a four-part puppy play and learn class at a local trainer. We are excited to continue socializing and introducing Astro to new puppies, people, and experiences.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Always enjoy reading the progress in Astro's Diary...


----------



## May (Nov 4, 2012)

I love the Astro updates! Please don't kill this thread!


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Wow! Sounds like things are going well! Yahoo!!:whoo:


----------



## asc6429 (Nov 6, 2012)

agreed with the above posters!!! i *LOVE* reading Astro updates. and it sounds like things are improving pretty quickly! (and it's what, week 3?) - congrats to you, mom & dad!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

asc6429 said:


> agreed with the above posters!!! i *LOVE* reading Astro updates. and it sounds like things are improving pretty quickly! (and it's what, week 3?) - congrats to you, mom & dad!


You would THINK it is week three! But actually I picked this little booger up on 10/16. Almost a month ago! I _know_ things are improving rapidly, but the challenge is still there. He still nips a lot and is very unruly and hyper. His housetraining is spotty unless 100% supervised and he will still cry/whine in his crate at night. 

Last night we went to the first of four "Puppy Play and Learn" classes. We learned some basic commands which Astro was already pretty good with and a few new ones which he is horrible with. Focus doesn't come easy with this lil' guy. But despite the challenges he was one of the more well-behaved and well-socialized puppies in the class. We were very proud of him! He played very nicely for once with minimal growling and snapping. Luckily there were a few bigger puppies in the class (16 weeks) and Astro couldn't be the bully like he usually is. He got manhandled by a ridgeback pup and a chocolate labradoodle and handled it very well. If anything it calmed him down.

We've been doing a LOT of handling lately with him because he gets so excitable so quickly. I am often needing to put him on his side or pick him up and hold him firmly under his chin to calm him down with a calm "shhhhhhhh... good boy... shhhhhhh." We practiced this in class and Astro was an instantly-quiet and calm little angel!

This weekend we're going out of town and leaving Astro with our friends who have Izzy. We know he's going to be a wreck when we leave but we hope he will be happy and distracted with his little buddy. This will be an interesting experience for Astro, our friends, and us.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Sounds like great progress, especially under 4 mos. Expect things to get a little worse as he becomes an adolescent with more energy and desire for independence... keep rigid on the rules, but gentle on the discipline ... I think you'll like an independent, thinking partner rather than a cowed, submissive dog always waiting for you to tell him what to think. About 6 - 9 mos, he may not 'calm' down, but you'll see things coming together.

At 9 mos, mine no longer tried to run away at random, he was running towards something - a smell, person, or another dog... not better, but easier to understand and anticipate.

Rather than restrain him when he gets over-excited, try to anticipate a little earlier and re-direct/re-train him to Sit, Down, Stand, Shake for a few moments, siphoning that energy into some mental exercise... then let him go play.

On the other hand, while he's this age and very receptive, you might try rubbing his cheek and whispering sleep (when he's falling asleep), to attempt to teach him to Sleep on cue.

Socialization with a bigger, friendly dog is excellent and I believe that a weekly bout with a roughhouse buddy burns off rambunctious energy, resulting in a teddybear personality.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

So we came back and apparently he did two things.
1. Played with Izzy so much that he fell asleep half the day every day.
2. Ate most of Izzy's food out of her bowl every day. He now has a chubby belly.

On top of that he became extremely fond of a ham bone that they had gotten Izzy and she doesn't like. So we brought it home with us. Is this safe for him? He literally cannot get enough of it.
http://i.imgur.com/x9g1Y.jpg


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Our experience with a ham bone and our previous dog was NOT GOOD. Major bowel problem.............if you get my drift.:wink:


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

He has mad diarrhea right now, so maybe the ham bone is contributing. I picked up some canned pumpkin yesterday and he seems to really like it mixxed with kibble in his kong. He's getting a few tablespoons today with his normal food.

I think I need to saddle Astro up with an easy-walk harness. He is having major issues on the leash with pulling and I can hear him start wheezing like mad because he pulls so hard. I stop him and make him sit for a minute to catch his breath, but we start moving and again with the pulling. "Being a tree" frustrates him to the point of biting the leash and thrashing around like a shark on a trotline. It's painful to watch. We're working on it but progress just seems so slow sometimes.

Also his schedule (and thus, ours) is completely messed up. He will wake up at about 3:30am expecting to be played with. I take him outside and he just chews grass or looks for bugs so I take him back inside where he will whine and bark until we get up. Lately we can stave him off for about an hour but it's not like we are sleeping while he whines. Then around 7am when my wife leaves he completely poops out and sleeps like a rock all day while we're at work. We try to put him to bed each night around 9:30pm after a long walk and a few hours of playtime but he just isn't that tired. He whines until about 10pm when he goes to sleep out of apparent frustration. I get up around 2am to take him out then after that it's hit or miss as to how much longer I have to sleep. Usually about 2 hours.

Does that ever improve? (from a working set of adults' perspectives)


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

1. Any new food, especially a lot, can cause diarrhea. My dog used to lie down and gnaw on cow hide, pig ear, etc. chews for hours, until he finished them. Then, he'd get diarrhea... so I switched to hard rubber bones and Kongs.
2. For pulling - Google: kikopup "loose Leash" "silky leash" "Turid Rugas my dog pulls..." It can take 30 days of training, but you can create a dog that will let you drink coffee in the same hand with the leash....
3. Sleeping does improve, and at 4 - 5 mos he should be able to sleep through the night without needing to go potty ... unless he has diarrhea ;-) You can try to cover his crate with a blanket or towel that he can't pull into the crate, and then try to ignore him for 3 nights ... the last night you may get an 'extinction burst' where he whines as if the coyote hiding under his bed has come out and is eating him :-0 ... try to tough it for 3 nights, if your neighbors can handle it.
4. What happens if you don't take him out at 2am, only at 10pm and then wait until 6 - 7 am ? BTW, he needs 10 min. of tug, run around the yard, or at least a walk just before bed, and maybe a Kong to chew on to fall asleep.
5. Think of him as having the energy of a 4 year old human right now ... and when he's 6 mos, think about a high school athlete level of energy to burn...


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I'll give some of the loose-leash stuff a shot. It's definitely going to take some work. I swear this morning I had a wheezing little draft animal pulling me. I did find that he likes jogging on-leash quite a bit. I will DEFINITELY be taking up jogging if it's something he will do with me for 30-45 minutes at a time and come home completely demolished from.

I'm not sure what would happen if I just let him be all night. I can only assume the worst will happen. Normally if he sleeps from 9:30 straight to 2am I take him out and his little bladder seems about ready to bust. He makes a pretty good sized puddle. I try to withhold water after 8pm but we do play pretty hard between 8 and 9:30 to try and tire him out; so before long he's sitting in front of the sink begging for a drink of water.

I'm up at 5am no matter what to get coffee going and take the little beast on his morning walk then feed him (or vice versa). On weekends we could try to see what happens by leaving him until 6 or 7. I can only assume that he would just whine between about 4:30 and 6.

We will see if his #2 firms up after today. He is getting a good shot of pure canned pumpkin in his kongs.

And a pic. He's looking so grown-up!
http://i.imgur.com/AS820.jpg


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Wow! He looks amazingly like Shep at that age. http://home.roadrunner.com/~hanksimon/dog/icrop2.jpg

After about 3 days with pumpkin and no ham bone, his diarrhea should start getting better.

Don't withhold water, especially after exercise. He needs it in order to cool off.

A dog's eating cycle is fairly regular, so I agree that he will wake up at 4:30am every day ...

I got my hand slapped by the Forum for suggesting running with a pup.  You shouldn't run a puppy onleash for the first year, b/c it can interfere with the growing plates in the joints (ask the Vet for detail). But, he'll be happy to jog with you then. I jogged with mine until he was about 5 yo ... then I got too old  He would still jog with me today at 12 yo, if I would jog.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

I would like to say things are getting better but it is really hard. Astro is very responsive to training and commands and is improving with his commanded behaviors, but his general behavior is getting worse. It seems as if he is completely unruly and tireless unless I'm recalling him and having him sit or down next to me. I've resorted to literally having to either be walking him, playing fetch/tug/chase with him, or feeding him ALL of the time. Because if I am not keeping him busy he spends his time jumping on the couch which we literally have no good "positive" way of keeping him from doing. He ignores us when we attempt to redirect or use a firm "no" so I have to either physically remove him or ignore him and turn my back in a huff which does jack nothing because he has his reward already. He has also developed a liking for sniffing around the carpet looking for previous marks to reuse. We've found a few and enzymed them to death but it is completely unnerving either way. Should we be crating him more?

This is NOT a pleasant thing for me to be constantly having to keep him completely occupied. I enjoy our walks and I enjoy seeing him excel with command reinforcement and learning new commands, but I haven't eaten a meal at home in several weeks without having to be standing at the counter (he's growing and can jump up onto the table and now even the edge of the kitchen counter) and constantly recalling him from mischief. We've considered re-confining him to the kitchen, but that causes the problem of me HAVING to be in the kitchen with him constantly. He is growing much larger physically and also much stronger, which brings an odd joy to my heart but complicates our ability to keep him out of mischief in the house. He's also beginning to show streaks of independence in his ability to disregard commands and occupy himself with mischief even while we are in "back turned ignore-mode".

His socialization at puppy class, out in public, and with other dogs is going very well. He was the star of the class (despite being the youngest) last week. His leash-walking is even improving drastically. I am working on his stopping/planting behaviors, but pulling is almost non-existent thanks to the stop/wait method. But his in-home behavior seems to be getting worse consistently and I feel like I have no recourse except to live as if I am Astro's slave.

Night time is still rough. He will sleep solidly for at least 3 or 4 hours usually but then around 2am he gets really restless and will sleep for 30 minutes or so at a time before awaking to whine for 10 minutes or so. My wife seems to sleep right through it but I can't. I'm awake if he's awake. It's getting really, really tiring and frustrating getting up with 5 hours or so of broken up sleep each day. 

Is this all stuff that will get better with time??? Or am I seriously saddled up for this crap for the long term. I can't keep this up for THAT much longer without seriously considering giving up.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

First, hold your breath, you've only had him for about a month, and it will still get worse  He's going to get bigger, stronger, smarter, more independent... and the weather is going to get colder, so his energy level may increase 

Compare Astro and how he listens to you to, to All of the other pups in puppy class... And, go back to read what you were going through 

But this time next year (even before...), things will be much better!!! He will be a completely different dog, if you don't lock him in the car and push it into the lake, first.

What you have to look forward to:
A. I got my dog fixed at 6 mos... And he was hell on wheels for the next two months, before settling down.
B. I walked Shep off-leash in fence parks, and he'd run off to say hello to everyone... except me. I thought he wanted to runaway, later discovering that he wanted to run away... but he wanted me to come along 
C. A young trainer tried to make him Sit (by inadvertantly giving him a signal for Speak). I kneeled down and whispered "Sit" and he did... And the trainer was shocked, "He really understood!" Yes, he does....
D. As he got older, Shep anticipated me and learned my body language. I can teach him simple behaviors with one lesson.
E. I got a bad case of the flu years ago. I pulled him on the covers, fell asleep, and he helped my fever break - Man's Best Friend!
F. When he wants to go out, he tells me; when he wants to play or to be petted, he tells me (I may refuse); When I want to play, he may not want to. When he's bored... he goes to sleep!!!
Astro will get better.

You don't have to be perfect and you don't have to be 100% gentle, positive reinforcement... we'll address that.

1. Astro is probably teething, getting in his adult teeth, and his mouth is sore. He needs things to chew on. A frozen Kong, a hard rubber bone, possibly a frozen washcloth.
2. Keep up the good work with the leash... Astro can still revert. But, you see the benefits of good training by comparing to others. You've bypassed lots of problems, and you can see these problems in other dogs in the puppy class.
3. Can you set up a one hour 'play date' with someone that has a dog with the same energy level? Someone in the puppyclass? Doesn't have to be the same size, just the same energy level... That will 'help' to calm him. 
4. Not sure about the mid-night awakenings... Try walking him for 15 min. just before bedtime? Or try giving him a frozen Kong before bedtime... and get earplugs 
5. Crating - You still have to watch him, but there is nothing wrong with giving him a Kong and locking him away in the crate, when you can't watch him, while he chews on the Kong, or on a hard rubber bone.
6. Counter -surfing: If you have ever fed him table scraps, people food, or a little tidbit while you are eating, that would explain the kitchen behavior.
7. Couch. When he jumps on the couch, promptly and decisively say "Off!" hold his collar, lead him where you want him, say "Sit!" and if he does, give him a treat. Every time. No more couch time, until he learns "Off!" and learns to wait for an invitation. Ditto with the Table!!!
8. When he's in the Kitchen, ask him to Sit! ... He either won't listen or he'll get up. Ask him about 3 times. Then, get a Kong or rubber bone and put him into the crate, so that you can get stuff done, and don't have to monitor him. You don't have to be mean or angry, but you do have to be prompt and consistent.
9. You have to be his slave, b/c that's what you've done. When Shep used to pester me... I put him in the backyard and he would watch the birds, or chew on a rubber bone, or sleep in the sun. I still put him outside in the sun when the temp is below 90 degrees. However, my yard is comapratively puppy-proofed. Don't ignore Astro after he has already done something that you don't want. Teach him a new behavior that you do want, say the cue, and you can lead him (guide him ?) to understand what you want. Be quick, direct, and consistent about compliance, expect him to 'test' you (he isn't really testing, he's learning how decisive you are and how obedient he has to be, and how much he can bend the rules ... so you have to make the rules decisive, prompt, and consistent).
10. Potty - For the moment, when he sniffs the carpet, say "Potty?" put on the leash and take him out. If he's not interested, you can take him back in in a few moments, but he may learn to look at you before he sniffs. And, you'll learn why he is sniffing, so that you can take him out. If you can't watch him for sniffing. Put him in the crate with something to chew on. And, he doesn't need to chew 100% of the time. BUt give him a chew, and don't worry if he finishes it or gets bored (a bored dog will normally go to sleep... An underexercised dog (most puppies !) may whine. You hope that they'll whine if they have to go potty.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Puppies are hard! I agree with hanksimon - think about how good Astro is in class compared to the other puppies, and then think about what those owners are going through ;-)

For night time, what do you do when he's restless and waking up? Do you take him out still? We noticed that DH kept taking Watson out every night, so whenever DH would stir, or get up to use the bathroom, Watson expected to be let out and would get very restless. When I woke up to go to the bathroom, he was silent. Now, DH doesn't take him out and if Watson is restless, he gets a kong (not a fully stuffed one, just one with some peanut butter and kibble stuck around the edges to occupy him for 5min). We started by giving him 3 kongs over the course of a night, and are now down to giving him one in the middle of the night (he gets one at bedtime too). It stops the restlessness enough that DH can go back to sleep, and teaches the pup that he can't always get up to go to the bathroom. Not sure if it will help you - it might just be something that takes time and further ignoring on your part. Have you tried moving him out of the room so you can sleep and he learns to be ignored?

The counter surfing is common. We've never fed Watson from the table or counters, but he does it when he can. You just have to be consistent about "off" (similar to the couch). Say it once, if he ignores you, take his collar and make him get off or gently walk into him until he gets off. Praise and reward. He'll keep testing you, but eventually you'll be able to say "off" and he'll listen. "Leave it" works well for this too, especially if there's something specific he's trying to get at. ETA: Make sure you reward the "off". It's tempting to just growl "off" and when he does, go back to what you're doing (things get hectic when you're making dinner or trying to get things done), but you need to make it rewarding for him to get off or he's going to decide that counter surfing is more fun.

I would bring the crate in, especially during meal time. You can train him to go to a bed or mat while you eat, but to start it will be easier to just confine him where he can't reach you. There's absolutely no reason to eat standing up to stay away from him - he's the one who can be inconvenienced for a bit while you eat. 

What kind of things is he getting into around the house? There are certain things that are hard to move or hide (like lamps and furniture) but plenty of things that are easy to put away until he's older, so more puppy proofing might be in order. There really shouldn't be much available that he can get into, because if he can, he will at this age. Instead of keeping him just in the kitchen, can you do the kitchen and one other room? That's our current situation and it gives us all some freedom to move around, but the pup can't get out of supervising range.

Everything you're going through is totally normal, but it will get better! He'll be a lovely dog some day and you'll look back and laugh at how bad he was (I've been there - that dog has been gone for almost 10 years and we still talk about how awful he was as a puppy, and how great as an adult).


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

We'll start implementing the "off" command with treats. Man, let me tell you, he is going to get fat fast.

His crate is currently in the living room. I can hear him whining from the bedroom though. My ear is tuned to it now. Maybe earplugs are the next step.

Things he is getting into around the house:
Biting carpet, Biting table legs, Biting chair legs, Biting the bottom shelf of the coffee table, Digging at the floor trim in the kitchen, Jumping on the couch and digging in the cushions, standing up to the table to get a hold of a jacket/purse/piece of mail, sniffing around the trash can. The most worrisome thing right now are the Christmas Trees we have set up in the living room. So far he has shown minimal interest in them but anytime he goes anywhere near them my heart skips a beat. They are my wife's prized possessions and she loves them. I protested setting them up in the living room (an area where he has access) but in any other room of the house we would never even see them. 

There's definitely more we could do to puppy proof. The coffee table was formerly a great area for us to put phones, our laptops, the ipad, etc. Now he is more than capable of getting a hold of anything on that table and destroying it. It was easy for me to retreat my belongings from the area but it has been much harder on the Mrs. Her laptop is still there, if I recall correctly.

It's just such an upheaval in the house right now. Last night I sat down on the couch for about 1 minute. He immediately jumped up next to me and started digging in the cushions. He then ran zoomies and seriously I thought he sustained several injuries during that bout. He was rocketing off of the back of the sofa, off of the arm, jumped on top of the coffee table and launched off of it, and finally jumped onto the couch and bit a cushion. That's where my patience ended completely. I picked him up and calmed him. I call it calming when really all it is is physically restraining. It's all I can do. He wasn't just hyper puppy at that moment he was puppy nuclear fusion. I've found that he calms down REALLY fast if I pick him up and tuck the crook of my elbow up under his neck and the other arm under his hind legs. He just hangs there, calm as a cucumber. I give him about 30 seconds and wait to feel his heart slow down, usually facing something boring for awhile. Then I let him down and use his release word. Kills zoomies fast but I'm pretty sure it's not in the commonly prescribed "positive reinforcement" bag o tricks.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I think gentle restraint is fine. You're not really punishing anything, just giving him an alternative behavior to do. Doesn't seem to be harming him in any way and if it calms him down sounds like a fine idea.

He sounds pretty crazy! You have my sympathies, since I'm dealing with a puppy of a similar age, but Astro sounds crazier than Watson! We get zoomies, but he also has long periods of chilling on the couch or chewing up a bully stick.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> but he also has long periods of chilling on the couch or chewing up a bully stick.


Yeah, Astro doesn't do that. Literally after a 45 minute walk, 10 minutes of training, 20 minutes of strong tug, and 15 minutes or so of chase where I do not let him stop running in the backyard; we will come inside and go for water. He collapses on the tile and I feel accomplished for about 4 minutes before he's back up wandering for more to do. I'm waiting to see him "chill" so I can click and treat. But if I click during his "collapse" I'm not sure what I'm reinforcing.


----------



## May (Nov 4, 2012)

I have no advice, only sympathy. Puppy nuclear fusion is exactly what's happening over here, too  I usually just let Neo zoom away when it happens (I guess he needs it), but the other day he ran right into the glass door.. good luck with the Christmas Trees!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I have no problem with a puppy sleeper hold, as long as Astro doesn't view it as negative. I've said it a few times - hitting a dog for punishment is not good, but hitting a Lab for play may seem like heaven to the dog!

Part of the zoomies may be reduced by finding something that he likes to chew for 15 - 30 min. A Kong, Hard Rubber Bone, soft toy without stuffing. My previous dog liked to destroy styrofoam boxes. My current dog will destroy and swallow... not allowed!

You remarked that Astro has lots of toys. Try removing most of them, and letting him have only two. Then, cycle those out and replace with two of the others. If you notice that he likes specific types of toys ... go stock up on two or three more right now...

Calming Methods and toys, (and teaching him to go to sleep on cue  ) will be very useful as he becomes an adult. One of my dogs used to sleep if I rubbed his cheek, this dog loves the cardboard paper towel rolls, and yellow chew toys... that I gave him as a young puppy.

Just to repeat what you already know... a non-puppyproofed area, especially with cellphones and laptops within reach, is a disaster that is going to happen, not If , but When


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

How about an Astro update?

Things are going alright in our house. Astro is still a handful and a half so nothing has changed on that end, but I think we're working out a schedule that he is getting used to.

We just graduated form puppy preschool last week on Wednesday. Astro did very well and his sit-stay is the best in the class. We cannot, however, get him into a "down" without having him sit first. He won't focus on us for a "watch me" for anything. High value treat or not. He's just too darn curious and ADHD to get the focus behaviors on command.

I've been noticing a lot more independent behaviors out of him. He is getting very good at ignoring commands even when I have a treat in hand. Counter surfing is improving in that he will only jump up on the counter if we are making some kind of meat. He doesn't do it just for fun anymore. He does respond to the "off" command when he's on the counter. We stopped treating for it though. For awhile he would jump up on the counter and get off just for treats.

On Friday I took him to work with me and he didn't sleep but 20-30 minutes all day. Then we got home and he refused to stop playing so we went with it and I also took him on a nice long walk. After his walk he got the zoomies out back then came inside and vomited up his food he had just eaten. I chalked it up to the fact that he inhaled most of it without chewing then ran feverishly for about 5 minutes. He slept a normal night that night of about 6 hours. Then Saturday he did fine. We had work to do in the garage so we penned him in the laundry room with the door open so he could be by us while we worked. He was whining/barking to begin with, but after awhile just settled in and chewed/watched us quietly while we worked with the occasional whimper/whine. He slept a few times for about 10 minutes. Then he took a trip with us to Home Depot so we could get some paint/materials. Also took him for a short walk. He slept a normal night.

Then yesterday he was fine in the morning. Normal rambunctious crazy puppy. Around noon we took him to Lowe's with us and he just pooped out entirely. He was frogged out on the floor whenever we stopped in an aisle. When we got home he vomited three times. I waited a few minutes and gave him a little bit of water to replace the fluids. A couple of minutes later he vomited that too. So off to the vet we went. They were concerned about Parvo/Distemper so they took a parvo test and it came out negative. We took him home and put him down for about a two hour nap where we just crated him and left. We came back and he seemed pretty much perfectly fine. I gave him a small amount of water and set a timer for 30 minutes to see if he'd keep it down. He did, so I gave him another half cup or so. We put him back in the crate to let him get some more nap time and left the house for a few hours. We arrived back to a pup that seemed absolutely perfect. Crazy and annoying again. I called the vet just to be sure that it was indeed a good sign. She said it was great. I fed him a small meal (despite his ravenous hunger) and gave him another half cup of water. We played until bedtime. Probably 2 hours. 

Can puppies display illness signs like vomiting/lethargy if they are just completely over-exhausted and sleep-deprived? I think that's what happened, but I'm not a vet. The vet seriously thought he had distempter (though I guess there is no test for it).


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Glad to hear the update! 

I'd personally be very concerned about the vomiting. Before Watson I grew up with dogs for 20 years and I've never seen vomiting that wasn't related to something, whether an illness or eating something awful. Definitely keep in touch with the vet and let us know how it goes.

How are you working on the down from the stand? In my puppy class we taught the fold-back down by holding a treat and pushing it right in towards his chest while saying "down" so that he folds back into the down trying to get it (and hopefully the down cue will help him make the connection).

Eta: we need more pictures!


----------



## asc6429 (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks for the update!! Was just thinking about Astro last weekend actually while I was browsing the forum, lol.

I think I've heard before that puppies' behavior is cyclic; they tend to "un-learn" (aka ignore) commands they know. Maybe he's in that phase?

Question; Do you still wake up in the middle of the night to take him out and come home from work to let him out?


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Always entertained with the updates.
1. A 4 mos puppy may be getting in adult teeth, teething, and has a sore mouth, so may be a little 'cranky' for a month...
2. Down - He may have learned Sit, then Down, and thinks that Down means "Sit, Down" ... You can retrain Down in various locations and from various positions, with no repercussions. Ian Dunbar even has a luring exercise for speed and accuracy: Sit, Down, Sit, Stand, Down, Stand ... all off of one treat, first luring, then voice cue only.
3. Surfing - Work more on this: Off, then Sit. Try to anticipate and cue him to Sit when he gets that look. This can turn into a big problem when he doubles in size.
4. Watch me - Ignore him, then say Astro. Treat with fingernail sized treat. Repeat until he looks at the treat hand when you say Astro. Secret technique: Now say Astro and hold the treat between your eyes. Give him the treat when he looks towards your eyes. After a few times, say Astro and either treat, or move the treat between your eyes ... so that he looks at your eyes, before you treat. Then, move the treat. If he follows the treat, Say Astro, wait a moment then either move the treat to your eyes and repeat ... Or treat when he looks at your eyes. When he follows the treat, move it to your eyes and say Astro. It'll take negotiation and patience before you both understand...
5. My dog used to inhale and get sick, so I learned to walk him or exercise him, let him relax for a few minutes and then feed him... Every meal. Now there is no excitement or need to hurry and finish eating, altho he still inhales. On the other hand, Astro is now an adolescent and growing (plus he's always hungry!) What you've described sounds normal, so try to change the order. I think being over-tired and inhaling can do it...

Vomiting can be two different things: churning and throwing up... somewhat under control of the puppy. Or, regurgitating... food or water in and food or water out, usually quick turnaround and more projectile like, with minimal control from the dog. You can get regurg when the stomach or some of the valves shut. During the next regular appointment, ask the Vet to explain the difference or Google it. Most of what you describe sounds like simple exercise -induced regurgitation. (You can reenact it by going to the gym and asking the trainer to push you  )

I think that everything is fine and on schedule. Don't be harsh or mean, but enforce the rules more strongly... don't let him get away with bending the rules or crossing the lines. He's very capable of understanding how far he can push things, if you apply the right techniques. 

Updated pix, and zoomies videos???


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Hanksimon, I just love reading your advice. You have a lot of doggy common sense mixed with a good sense of humor (always necessary with dogs!)


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks hanksimon, as always, for the great advice. Everything is a work in progress. He's a pretty darn challenging little guy.

To asc6429's question, we are seeing how long we can let him go at night. I don't set an alarm anymore. He pretty much vocalizes when he needs to go outside. There has been a few nights where he makes it all the way to wake up time but he will still sometimes wake up around 3:30 or 4 and whine to go outside. I usually put him back in the crate with a frozen kong and then go back to bed for an hour or so. Sometimes he goes back to sleep and sometimes he just sits in his crate and whines or chews. My wife still heads home in the middle of the day to let him out, but we are hiring a dog-walker to do that for us as well as give him some midday exercise. My wife and I are about to start working at the same place, so for us it makes good sense to simply hire someone and work the full day with only one commute trip.

He is definitely what I'd call a "power chewer". We have a large puppy nylabone that is chicken flavored which he has chewed down to a nub over the course of about 3 weeks. We also got him a "Plubber" toy about a week and a half ago which he has already torn the nose off of and has worn a few holes in. We are feeding exclusively out of frozen kongs right now which buys us time and keeps him relatively occupied for short periods of time which allows us precious moments to clean up here and there and get him into the crate quietly and happily.

We bought him a Kong Chew-resistant crate pad as a Christmas gift. He loved it and just slept like a rock for about a week. But then he started gnawing at the top and wore a small hole in it. He got some of the stuffing out but I didn't think twice about it since the hole he wore didn't have any stuffing readily accessible in it anymore. Well, last night fixed all that. He flipped the pad over and tore through the bottom of it and got pretty much ALL of the stuffing out of the pad. It's now in a trash bag heading out to the can today.
Picture: http://i.imgur.com/wUYc2.jpg

Our boy is growing up REALLY fast. He's so much bigger and more physical now but his energy levels are absolutely endless. He has many nicknames currently: Endless Astro, DisAstro, A**hole Astro. He's still very good at command behavior. Sit-Stay especially. He will wait at an open door seemingly forever once his butt actually hits the ground. Leash-walking is still sort of stagnant. We walk every day but he still pulls from time to time, prompting my stopping dead in our tracks and him reluctantly turning back around and letting the leash go slack which allows us to continue. The dog walker says he is way better than most of the adult dogs she walks, so that is encouraging, but my expectations are higher. We will continue working on that.

Now for a few pics from this morning! (No zoomies videos. We've been redirecting zoomies into tug or chase, which kills zoomies fast and poops him out for bedtime!)
http://i.imgur.com/vYzHr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GjdUU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kGsHB.jpg


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

What a cute face! I definitely see a lot of GSD in there.


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Cute face indeed! Though, as we tell everyone, "Don't let him fool you!"


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

@elrohwen - Thanks, always appreciate the affirmation of my entertainment 

Pix are great! Love the floating Rosette ears. No Guarantee ... but there's a possibility of the ears standing up when he's about 10 mos... If he really is Shep's second cousin twice removed  then I recommend as many experiences and as much training as you have patience for. It sounds like he already knows that each word has a different meaning... teach him hand signals also. Consider if you want to teach him how to read and how to drive  (Youtube videos on both!!!)


----------



## asc6429 (Nov 6, 2012)

I literally laughed out loud at the nicknames 

He is really getting so big.. and so darn cute!!!! can't wait for another update!


----------



## readmeli (Jan 15, 2013)

New member... Just got a puppy for the first time (as an adult) Sunday. I dug this thread up and it was SO VERY HELPFUL TO ME!! Thank you.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

It's OK to start a new thread... and pls post pix!


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Please, Please give us an update on Astro!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Due to popular demand, Astro update time:

So we've been a busy group around here lately. My wife and I traveled back to the West Coast to visit our families just after Christmas and about a week into the new year. We had purchased our flights well before October when we adopted him, so we had to make arrangements for him to stay here. Fortunately, my wife has several cousins who live nearby and were able to stay here with him the entire 11 days. Huge blessing, but it completely threw off his sleep schedule, as we are in bed by ten and our cousins are college-aged. Bed by two. We're still overcoming that.

Astro must be hitting his full blown rebellious stage (5 months, I hear, is when they get into their "terrible twos" phase) because all of the solid commands and behaviors we had worked so hard to train have become far less consistent. He frequently ignores commands and is content to counter surf ALL DAY LONG. He must have found a roast chicken on the counter or something when our cousins were watching him because he hasn't gotten anything since we've been home but he will check all five counters repeatedly as if there's something up there for him. We tell him "off" and he will get down. If we see him headed for the counter we will tell him "off" before he even gets to it and he will freeze and trot off.

He is beginning to get a lot more outside time. He enjoys being out there and finding dirt mounds to dig in and sticks/rocks to chew on. He has completely eaten some of our plants that were planted along the back of the house by the previous owners (we were planning on tearing those out anyways come spring).

House training is spot on. He will go sit at the door if he has to go out. We still reward the heck out of him for peeing/pooping outside.

The crate is a sore spot. He isn't terribly fond of it. We have been getting him into it by offering his FAVORITE treat (those food rolls that come in chubs like ground meat and smell like sausage) and we offer the treat exclusively for going to his crate. His cue is "Bedtime!". When we pull the treat roll out of the fridge he immediately runs to his crate. But getting him into it without the treat is spotty. From there it is a crap shoot. If he has a frozen kong, he will nibble away until he's done with it then start howling at us to let him out. If he's tired, he will sleep. But he is VERY loud in his crate. At night he will sleep for about 5 hours then wake up and bark/howl. I usually take him out to go potty then stick him back in the crate, sometimes with a frozen kong, and he will bark/howl for 5-15 minutes before settling back in and sleeping for another 45 minutes or an hour. Then he wakes back up and starts in with the barking again. Night time in our house is frustrating and tiring. Any help here would be MUCH appreciated.

His leash manners are decent. He doesn't pull too often and if he does he stops dead. The trick now will be getting him to walk closer to me. I've begun shortening the leash and stopping when it goes tight, but he's still got a good amount of space away from me. Our midday dog walker LOVES taking him out and tells us he does better than most adult dogs about pulling (might just be to sell us on the service).

I get short with him more often now than before. It's tough for me to realize sometimes just how young he is and to treat him accordingly. I often expect too much adult behavior out of him and really, when I do get upset about it, the joke is on me. He's shaping up to be a great dog, but for now he's still just a curious, energetic, happy, HUNGRY puppy.

I think he's up to between 35 and 40 pounds now.

Oh, and we've been planning to get our floors redone for a long time now. Because of how dirty Astro as been getting lately and thus how dirty our carpet is, we've gotten a contractor scheduled to come in and do 100% tile on our first floor in March. We cannot WAIT. Carpet with an active and curious puppy is a NIGHTMARE to keep clean!

Pics/video!
Astro the day we got back from our trip
Just after we found his first lost puppy tooth
Astro and his friend Izzy completely pooped out
Astro and Izzy chewing opposite one another

Some of you may have seen this video on my other post. It's three and a half minutes of Astro and Izzy sparring with one another.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDsj7wnEt7E


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

1. Great Pictures - Do you know that he is a GSD-Cattle Dog, or was that a guess from the Shelter?
2. At 5 mos, guestimate for full adult weight is 70 - 80 lbs, based on two times the current weight.
3. Discourage/protect from eating plants. Some are toxic, and he may start to eat desirable plants.
4. If he is a GSD- Lab, and you 'bark' at him when angry... then he may forget the anger in a moment. I used to punish my dog when he would 'run off,' making him do doggie pushups [Sit, Down, Sit Down ... a valid training exercise  ]. As soon as I finished...he'd jump up an bite me, trying to get me to chase him...
5. Keep up the loose leash walking. Your wife will thank you when he's 80 lbs. So will your shoulders 
6. Keep on the counter-surfing, with no reinforcement, the behavior should extinguish in a few months. [However, this shows a good example of the repercussions of people saying, "Just one ... he's so cute!" And then sabotaging your months of work!
7. Re-train the crate ? Get a good treat or frozen kong, let him smell or lick it, toss it into the crate and close the door with him on the outside. Let him chew and tear and whine in frustration at being locked OUT of the crate. When he sits or stops, and then looks at you, you can let him in and then close the door. If he whines, you can repeat this exercise. 
8. Another suggestion is to cover the crate with a sheet (like a parakeet cage), but be careful that he can't reach the sheet, pull it into the crate and tear it to ribbons!


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> 1. Great Pictures - Do you know that he is a GSD-Cattle Dog, or was that a guess from the Shelter?
> *He was listed as a cattle dog mix, but I don't see any. I just see lab/gsd.*
> 2. At 5 mos, guestimate for full adult weight is 70 - 80 lbs, based on two times the current weight.
> *Oh, crap.*
> ...


Bolds above


----------



## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

hikeon3 said:


> I tried that for awhile but he would mostly just sit there staring at me or eating grass. About an hour seems to be his sweet spot, or 2 hours if he's been napping; both entirely depending on recent water intake.


Oh thanksful Im not alone, our new puppy we got last week(now 9 weeks) is the same way, we tried the typical out every 20-30 minutes, always after eating/drinking/napping, lots of play and nothing, just run around the yard in circles and eat some leaves. lol. However, if we give her about an hour or so after she naps/drinks and almost 2 hours sometimes for pooping she will eventually go! She just doesn't seem to be your typical 9 week old puppy. lol.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

@sclevenger: Typically, when you take a pup out to pee, she will pee in about 30 seconds, but then sniff around at any distraction before pooping... if she doesn't forget. The suggestion is to put her on leash, let her pee, then move to the desired bathroom area and stand there for 3 - 5 minutes, until she poops. After you wait and nothing happens, take her back in - no play time. Be ready to take her back out again in 30 min. When she finally poops, give her 3 pieces of kibble or another small treat.

@Hikeon3
2. I'm guessing closer to 60 -65 lbs, 70 -80 is just an estimate...
5. For pulling, standing like a tree will help. But, you also want to reward him sitting on being calm, perhaps working with someone to give him attention when he quiets down. In addition to telling him what he can't do, you also want to train him do what you want him to do...
7. Not much you can do about Izzy, but if Astro caught your hand, you want to work on Bite Inhibition some more. With practice, he really will bite 'softly' even during a fight or a painful injury. 

Not sure what else to do about the counter surfing and whining. Maybe it just takes more time. [You may be spoiled with how well he's done and how quickly he learns ... ] When he surfs, you might try a Sit! and a small treat ???


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

sclevenger said:


> Oh thanksful Im not alone, our new puppy we got last week(now 9 weeks) is the same way, we tried the typical out every 20-30 minutes, always after eating/drinking/napping, lots of play and nothing, just run around the yard in circles and eat some leaves. lol. However, if we give her about an hour or so after she naps/drinks and almost 2 hours sometimes for pooping she will eventually go! She just doesn't seem to be your typical 9 week old puppy. lol.


A poop cue also helps. Astro STILL wanders around for awhile before letting loose with a number two. But a quick "Go poopie!" reminds him what he's doing and he goes back to searching for that perfect spot like they do.


----------



## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> @sclevenger: Typically, when you take a pup out to pee, she will pee in about 30 seconds, but then sniff around at any distraction before pooping... if she doesn't forget. The suggestion is to put her on leash, let her pee, then move to the desired bathroom area and stand there for 3 - 5 minutes, until she poops. After you wait and nothing happens, take her back in - no play time. Be ready to take her back out again in 30 min. When she finally poops, give her 3 pieces of kibble or another small treat.


We do take her out on a leash, she usually pees very quickly, USUALLY not always. We have tried standing in the desired spot for several minutes and let her walk in that area, but nope she plays and eats crap, so we go back in and repeat, usually still nothing. The only time I can get her to go there is early in the morning like 2am at her first wakeup call. But usually she wants to wander to the top of the hill and then wander up there and then go. lol.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks for the Astro update! Have honestly wondered how you were doing. Everything sounds typical. I too am frustrated with my 15 month old pup. At least Astro walks on a leash well. You should see my dog. Her feet are going a mile a minute as she is pulling me. I have started the "tree thing" and it helps. She now pulls and pulls, I stop, she walks back to me and we take three steps and she pulls again. Takes me a long time to go a short distance. I don't know do I just keep doing this and eventually when she is so old she can't spin her legs so fast we can actually walk TOGETHER??? At least she can't reach our counters. She never did take to her crate no matter what I tried. She didn't bark or whine...she sounded like she was chirping. Drove us crazy. We finally gave up and she sleeps in a little bed on the floor of our bedroom and is happy and never bothers us during the night. If we sleep late she goes to my husband's side of the bed, stands up on her hind legs and whimpers until he wakes up. I think she tried it with me but I am such a sleepy head she knows he is the one she can wake up! hahaha OK by me! She also barks at other dogs she sees when we go for walks and gets very excited...I think it is just that she wants to go play with them (at least I hope). She only weighs 10 pounds but she is strong! She still is very mouthy. She doesn't bite anymore but she likes to put our fingers or hands in her mouth but she never bites. I think she is just using her mouth since she doesn't have hands. All in all, she is just so darn cute we love her. She makes us laugh...loves to play hide and seek or "chase". Would I do this over again?????? Boy, I am just not sure because like you and Astro....puppyhood has been a challenge....except for potty training....she figured that out in three days! Again, thanks for your update. It is nice to compare notes. I am beginning to wonder if there are any "normal" dogs or maybe it is just our expectations that are abnormal???? LOL


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

The last two nights Astro has been barking pretty much the entire night starting around 1 or 2am. I take him out at 1 or 2 then just ignore him the rest of the night. I've never seen myself with such bloodshot eyes.


----------



## May (Nov 4, 2012)

Cotonlove said:


> I am beginning to wonder if there are any "normal" dogs or maybe it is just our expectations that are abnormal???? LOL


My neighbor has one of those "normal" dogs. He's just a couple of days younger than Neo, he never runs away off leash, never barks, never potties in the house, never destroys anything.. it's driving me mad  She just doesn't get that not every dog is like hers. I actually think he's the abnormal one. 

hikeon3, ear plugs? No other suggestions here, just sympathy. I do hope we end up with semi-acceptable adult dogs one day in the not-so-distant future. All I know is that I'll never ever ever have a puppy again.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

You might try taking Astro for a 15 min. potty romp at night, 15 min. before bedtime (10 pm?) to help burn some of that energy. Shep used to wake up at 11pm and run around the backyard for 30 min. I think he'd slam into his doghouse, then dig and bark in it, b/c he liked the sound. Then, he'd go back to sleep.

@Cotonlove - All dogs do it to some degree, the good thing is there are 'solutions.'

1. Loose leash and silky leash can take about 30 days for it to really stick, but it's worth it to have a 10lb, 60lb, or 120lb dog that might bark and get excited, but doesn't pull the leash, allowing you to walk and drink coffee! Persist and be patient....

2. Crate - gentle suggestion: Stuff a Kong. Let her sniff the Kong. Toss the Kong into the crate, when she really wants it. Shut the door to the crate, with her on the outside. Stand up and watch the show. She will dig and bite, and chirp to get at that Kong. Some dogs give up at 30 sec., some will go for 10 min. When she gives up, sits down, and mainly when she looks to you for help, praise her and let her into the crate, and close the door behind her. Many dogs will happily chew the Kong, and then fall asleep in the crate...

3. Barking - Work on that now. First, teach her "Quiet" by saying "quiet" when she takes a breath during barking, and then shoving a treat under her nose - can't bark and sniff at the same time. Give her the treat. Repeat, until both of you get it, and she goes Quiet for the treat, when you say the word, as opposed to when you give the treat. It will take at least 3 days. Then, Find some friendly folks to help. Ask them to bring their dog over, ask your dog to Sit, and Quiet... and if she doesn't then the other people go away... Keep up with interact if Quiet (doesn't have to be perfect at first), withdraw attention if too excited... and in a week or two, something may finally Click for her. 

4. Mouthing - You can reduce, control Mouthing by further training using the info in the Sticky: The Bite Stops Here ... if desired.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

hanksimon...thank you so much for all the tips.You really are a wealth of information and experience. I will continue working with her on leash and I will not give up! She is such a delight to us.

May....I feel your pain. I see other people with their dogs and I think.....why can't my little pup walk nicely on leash, be quiet and polite when coming upon another dog etc. etc. But.......she has started to grow on me and can be such a little cuddlebug. I would not go through puppyhood again though unless I were at least 30 years younger!

hikeon3....I am so sorry about you not getting enough sleep. I remember that well when we had our child. I don't think he slept for the first three years. I hope Astro settles down for you sooner than that! Is your wife getting more used to him? Would you do it over again???


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Cotonlove said:


> hikeon3....I am so sorry about you not getting enough sleep. I remember that well when we had our child. I don't think he slept for the first three years. I hope Astro settles down for you sooner than that! Is your wife getting more used to him? Would you do it over again???


My wife tends to keep a cooler head about the dog than I do. We both agree, though, that if we could go back 4 months we would MOST DEFINITELY NOT do this again.


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Yeah, I probably agree....we wouldn't do this again either. Sad but true.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I understand the sentiment. Puppies have a way of changing in a year or two, sometimes changing perspectives. ;-)

Astro Questions:
1. I was watching the video - Does Astro have a band of fur on his back?
2. Is his fur unusually soft?
3. Do you see any purple coloring ? Shep developed a purple belly and has purple gums.
4. Do he have a great sense of balance or still clumsy?
5. Notice any 'golden' hairs on his feet or chest?


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

How are you and Astro doing? Any updates for us?


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Well, it's been more than a month, so I imagine we won't her any more about Astro. I hope they get to the point: "Hey, he understands. Astro really is a great dog." And, I hate to think that a challenge like this really turns them off to kids...


----------



## Cotonlove (Jan 29, 2012)

Darn, I hate it that they have dissappeared. Though our puppy was a challenge, she was nothing like Astro. I am not really sure if I would want to go through puppy stage again but we sure have grown to love our little girl. After a year passed by things really turned around and now she brings us such joy. I hope Astro is ok and I hope they are too! We were very lucky that our puppy was pretty laid back...especially since we are older..............


----------



## hikeon3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry it has been so long. Summer has kept us VERY busy getting our house in order since we learned we are hosting the holiday get-togethers this year.

Well we hit that one-year old landmark this past Saturday so I figured I'd provide a short update on our boy.

He is a totally different dog nowadays, though of course not without his unique challenges. He thrives on routine which is great because our life is incredibly regimented. Every day he wakes up and will patiently wait until about 6:30am before he starts gently whining in his crate. On weekends this is sort of a pain in the butt but at least it gets us moving a bit earlier. Usually I get up and tend to the little beast while my wife catches up on some Z's.

He stays outside all day and has adapted VERY well to this Central Texas heat. He has a patch of cool dirt which is shaded all day that he has sort of made a little den in. He sleeps there through the hottest parts of the day. When we get home it's pretty routine that I play some fetch with him, walk him, maybe take an hour-long trip to the local dog park. I do whatever I can to sap some of his energy. On weekends during the cooler months we've made some trips to a local off-leash park that has several miles of trails and a creek. We hike, he explores, and usually at least 15 other dogs are scattered throughout. He's definitely getting well socialized though he is quick to tuck his tail when another dog he isn't aware of shoves its nose near his butt.

His home behavior has improved but still isn't 100% on point. We restrict his access to the front room because he will go to the window and bark at neighbors and walkers. He has a tendency to pace around most of the time even if we've pretty well sapped his energy. He no longer counter surfs (praise the Lord) but if I were to leave a roast chicken at the edge of the counter he definitely wouldn't hesitate to nab it. If my wife sits down on the sofa with a bowl of popcorn or ice cream he will go to her and try to stick his nose up in her lap. I've attempted repeatedly to train that behavior away with the alternative of lying at the side of the sofa quietly, but that's just something that really doesn't interest him at all unless he is absolutely exhausted.

Quick edit: As to the breed of our little monster, check out some google images of a "Carolina Dog" and tell me what you think. Astro seems to look a lot like these.

Now for the pictures everyone wants.
 My wife put a bow from a bouquet of flowers on him. 
 He slept like this from about 9pm to 4am one night. 
 My wife loves when he lays in her lap.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Glad things have calmed somewhat. He'll mellow much more over the next 18 mos, if he's like Shep was. Shep has floppy ears, rather than pointed. Astro looks like the pictures of a Carolina dog, as well as some pictures of a black mouth cur.
Shep has a purple belly, and purple gums, so we've never been positive what he is. I'm still sticking with Lab-GSD b/c of traits and personality. Let us know if you get confirmation about Atlas's Carolina dog heritage.


----------

