# "Shorty Bulls"



## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

How do you guys feel about the Shorty bull, it is *NOT* an American bully or an Exotic Bully.

They are meant to be "Athletic miniature bull dogs"but i have to wonder if they are bred to be athletic why do they have such a smushed face? I imagine that would inhibit their athletic ability a lot

To me they just look like frenchies with cropped ears


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I... think they're cute and they look like a Boston/English Bulldog mix with cropped ears.

Ethics wise? Meh. What's the purpose of the breed, are they breeding to a standard, etc.

Smashed face I am coming to learn does not necessarily inhibit athleticism so much as heat and cold tolerance and even that's danged variable. I've had to work hard to get this through my head because Bug has some issues that do, and those are genetic, but it's not related to the shape of her face.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

CptJack said:


> I... think they're cute and they look like a Boston/English Bulldog mix with cropped ears.
> 
> Ethics wise? Meh. What's the purpose of the breed, are they breeding to a standard, etc.
> 
> Smashed face I am coming to learn does not necessarily inhibit athleticism so much as heat and cold tolerance and even that's danged variable. I've had to work hard to get this through my head because Bug has some issues that do, and those are genetic, but it's not related to the shape of her face.


Can you provide me with any information stating that smooshed faces do not reduce athletic ability?Like MOST of the dogs i can hear them struggling to catch their breath after only a few mins playing somewhere with moderate temperature..I see them tire and need to catch their breath more often than the other puppies and dogs all the time at work,I am not saying if you get a random byb frenchie who has a snout it's automatically going to be healthier than one with no snout, but i have a hard time believing that a smooshed face doesn't effect their athletic ability just from first hand experience..I mean just look at the nostrils on the dogs i posted


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Adjecyca1 said:


> Can you provide me with any information stating that smooshed faces do not reduce athletic ability?Like MOST of the dogs i can hear them struggling to catch their breath after only a few mins playing somewhere with moderate temperature..I see them tire and need to catch their breath more often than the other puppies and dogs all the time at work,I am not saying if you get a random byb frenchie who has a snout it's automatically going to be healthier than one with no snout, but i have a hard time believing that a smooshed face doesn't effect their athletic ability just from first hand experience..I mean just look at the nostrils on the dogs i posted


I can only tell you what my vet told me, and I have observed with Bostons - 

Loud breathing is not the same as a being out of breath. It's just loud. It's not ideal, and it does mean something in the airway is vibrating or a little occluded but it doesn't mean they're out of breath or their breathing is labored. It's just noisy. And you can even have Bostons and smashed faced breeds with NONE of that, because their nasal passages aren't too little and their palate isn't too long. Those are what occludes breathing - not the shorter muzzle itself.

*ETA* I'm not saying that these dogs are well bred - I am saying it's possible to breed an entirely functional dog with a short nose, and the short nose along does not mean the dog's going to have breathing issues. Muzzle LENGTH is an evolutionary thing to warm or cool air before it hits the lungs. That's it. The rest can come with it, yeah, but it doesn't necessarily need to.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I... have no idea what think ethics wise but.. holy cute!! I want one lol. If they health test and breed for decent temperament then why not?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Also!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBxG7oA3_cU Boston Agility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrkE4BKQe0 - Boston dock diving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlMF_oboc4Y - Frisbee? This one's my favorite

Nope. Changed my mind. This one's my favorite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3X81tEkk5Q



Seriously. A short nose is not a death sentence to an active dog. Bug's got some issues from bad breeding and I'm not saying it's not easy to go wrong, but it's very possible to have that note and a heck of an athletic dog.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

CptJack said:


> Also!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBxG7oA3_cU Boston Agility
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrkE4BKQe0 - Boston dock diving
> ...


Do you think a boston terrier would have the ability to be a true working dog? And would be able to compete at the same level as similar sized breeds without a pushed in face? I will admit that i have seen Bostons fair better for the most part fairbetter breathing wise than Pugs and English bull dogs, but i think if i was looking to breed a truly "athletic" dog, which to me is a little more than being able to run around for 15mins if i was looking for a true working dog, i think i would avoid brachycephalic dogs.. I am not saying the dogs can't do anything at all but i am curious as to how long they can compared to breeds that aren't Brach of similar size


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Adjecyca1 said:


> Do you think a boston terrier would have the ability to be a true working dog? And would be able to compete at the same level as similar sized breeds without a pushed in face? I will admit that i have seen Bostons fair better for the most part fairbetter breathing wise than Pugs and English bull dogs, but i think if i was looking to breed a truly "athletic" dog, which to me is a little more than being able to run around for 15mins to a half hour or if i was looking for a true working dog, i think i would avoid brachycephalic dogs.. I am not saying the dogs can't do anything at all but i am curious as to how long they can compared to breeds that aren't Brach



Oh, please. My Boston with her heart condition, and bad knees is good for an hour with the RT, hiking in rough terrain, in 85 degree temperatures before she needs a break and regularly completes 10 mile hikes - though with breaks every hour or so in higher temperatures or harsher terrain. (And I admit freely I let her get fat and out of condition because I babied her way, way too much for a while because I was afraid I'd kill her. I'm over it and she's gotten so. much. better.)

And she's 7, deaf, has a great IV heart murmur, and two luxatting patellas.

There are Bostons competing and WINNING at fairly high level agility trials. Did... you watch those videos? They're HIGH ENERGY dogs and they DO have the stamina to compete with similar sized dogs. They also tear it up in weight-pull and are frisbee and fetch CRAZY, and jump like NOTHING. I don't know what more you want from a 10-20lb dog (on average).

Seriously, watch at least that last clip and come back to question their athleticism.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

CptJack said:


> Oh, please. My Boston with her heart condition, and bad knees is good for an hour with the RT, hiking in rough terrain, in 85 degree temperatures before she needs a break and regularly completes 10 mile hikes - though with breaks every hour or so in higher temperatures or harsher terrain.
> 
> And she's 7, deaf, has a great IV heart murmur, and two luxatting patellas.
> 
> ...


I did watch those videos actually, but like i said i was only basing this off of what i have seen, every Boston terrier i have seen quit and laid down within 15-20 mins, i have also seen some very flawed dogs compete in weight pull and various sports, so when i see a dog run in agility that doesn't always equal in my mind a true working dog.. Perhaps all the bostons i have seen were bad examples of the breed.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

I.....just much prefer frenchies. Those cropped ears do nothing for me. And really, you can find leggier frenchies pretty eaisly.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Adjecyca1 said:


> I did watch those videos actually, but like i said i was only basing this off of what i have seen, every Boston terrier i have seen quit and laid down within 15-20 mins, i have also seen some very flawed dogs compete in weight pull and various sports, so when i see a dog run in agility that doesn't always equal in my mind a true working dog.. Perhaps all the bostons i have seen were bad examples of the breed.


Or perhaps you are basing your opinions based entirely upon pet owners who are like most other pet owners of breeds, and that means encouraging a lazy, overweight dog and providing minimal exercise and conditioning. 

Frankly, I have yet to see a THING a pit can do that a Boston can't, if scaled for size. That includes catch, hold and kill things bigger than them.

Also, I have no idea what kind of working dog you're talking about here. I mean honestly, it just sounds like you're determined to stick to your guns. I mean what kind of serious work does a dog do, besides sport, that qualifies them for you? Herding and hunting? Livestock guarding? Where are we going, here? Because herding is pretty hardcore, buthunting doesnt actually require a crap ton of either sustained, speed at all (in some cases) OR enormous amounts stamina (and I hunt) and livestock guardian requires basically none of either.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

CptJack said:


> Or perhaps you are basing your opinions based entirely upon pet owners who are like most other pet owners of breeds, and that means encouraging a lazy, overweight dog and providing minimal exercise and conditioning.
> 
> Frankly, I have yet to see a THING a pit can do that a Boston can't, if scaled for size. That includes catch, hold and kill things bigger than them.


 Most of the bostons i have met were not overweight actually.. Have you ever seen a Boston used for hog hunting? Or hunting in general? Patterdales are around the same size and are often used by hog hunters. I know little about the breed.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Adjecyca1 said:


> Most of the bostons i have met were not overweight actually.. Have you ever seen a Boston used for hog hunting? Or hunting in general? Patterdales are around the same size and are often used as hog hunters. I know little about the breed.


 I have! There are all kinds of Bostons doing the same barn and rodent hunting that the JRTs and RT are doing around here! I've ALSO seen them used in **** hunting, weirdly enough, with packs of scent hounds because they have the bite strength and tenacity to hold on, when the '**** gets shot out of the tree. I *don't* see them hunting hogs, but let's get real - they weigh 15 lbs.

They're little pit bred dogs. That were bred for the pit. Killing things is the entire basis of their breed development.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

CptJack said:


> I have! There are all kinds of Bostons doing the same barn and rodent hunting that the JRTs and RT are doing around here! I've ALSO seen them used in **** hunting, weirdly enough, with packs of scent hounds because they have the bite strength and tenacity to hold on, when the '**** gets shot out of the tree. I *don't* see them hunting hogs, but let's get real - they weigh 15 lbs.
> 
> They're little pit bred dogs. That were bred for the pit. Killing things is the entire basis of their breed development.


Patterdales are the same weight as Bostons and often used for hog hunting, so it's not unrealistic. I knew they were originally fighting dogs, but it seemed to me that they are far removed from the Pit, lots of breeds who started off as Pit dogs do not show it today. But if they can do all that awesome, i hope more people get involved with using them and proving them for those tasks...


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Adjecyca1 said:


> Patterdales are the same weight as Bostons and often used for hog hunting, so it's not unrealistic. I knew they were originally fighting dogs, but it seemed to me that they are far removed from the Pit, lots of breeds who started off as Pit dogs do not show it today. But if they can do all that awesome, i hope more people get involved with using them and proving them for those tasks...


They are. The dogs are out there doing it - all of it. People just like to stubbornly stick to the idea that they can't do anything, because of their face shape. A lot of owners end up over there heads as a result. 

We don't have hogs. But apparently they ARE used there, too:

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1426.0

Not frequently, clearly, but neither are airedales.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I kinda like the brindle one,the tan one not so much. Most seem to just look like French bulldogs or mini exotic Am Bullies. I think I would go for a moderate built Boston terrier they still seem pretty athletic despite the muzzle.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

I like Shorty Bulls. If they're OFA tested and bred ethically, I'd definitely consider one in the future. And I pretty much agree with everything CptJack has stated about BTs and their athleticism. As well as what was stated about face shape affecting a dog's quality of life.

With that said, I'm probably going to bow out of this. Debating and arguing about brachy breeds is exhausting. lol I know my Boston mix and my previous Boston have/had zero issues with breathing and can keep playing and running long after my mom's GSD has called it quits (even on hot days).

That said, this dog is handsome as heck


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Little Wise Owl said:


> I like Shorty Bulls. If they're OFA tested and bred ethically, I'd definitely consider one in the future. And I pretty much agree with everything CptJack has stated about BTs and their athleticism. As well as what was stated about face shape affecting a dog's quality of life.
> 
> With that said, I'm probably going to bow out of this. Debating and arguing about brachy breeds is exhausting. lol I know my Boston mix and my previous Boston have/had zero issues with breathing and can keep playing and running long after my mom's GSD has called it quits (even on hot days).


I am going to share this with you because it's apt.










She KILLS Thud on a regular basis, especially with Tug.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

Haha, I don't doubt it one bit! 


Here are some other Shorty Bulls that are gorgeous. These dogs supposedly have their hips and eyes tested


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I really like that bottom one, a lot.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

I LOVE this one. omg


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't care much for them, personally. It isn't a breed I'd deliberately set out to own.


Just for fun, here are some shots of Shorty Bull's doing bite work:


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Are shorties being marketed as a 'real working dog' or just as a pet breed? I don't see why a breed couldn't be marketed as a pet or active pet. Not all breeds and dogs need to be working bred and in fact most aren't.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> Are shorties being marketed as a 'real working dog' or just as a pet breed? I don't see why a breed couldn't be marketed as a pet or active pet. Not all breeds and dogs need to be working bred and in fact most aren't.




"Athletic pet". Their capacity to be athletic was being questioned. It just kind of... slid from there, but agreed. Most dogs *don't* need to be and aren't, regardless of breed.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> Are shorties being marketed as a 'real working dog' or just as a pet breed? I don't see why a breed couldn't be marketed as a pet or active pet. Not all breeds and dogs need to be working bred and in fact most aren't.


I've always sort of wondered this as well... Why does a dog breed NEED to have a working purpose in order to be bred? Is companionship not a purpose?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Little Wise Owl said:


> I've always sort of wondered this as well... Why does a dog breed NEED to have a working purpose in order to be bred? Is companionship not a purpose?


No.

If you want a companion you can take any of the dozen breeds already there.

After all we know poms, paps, poodles, and pugs are all exactly the same. Their names even begin with the same letter.

/sarcasm.

Seriously, I've had this argument and t hat right there summarizes the opposition.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Little Wise Owl said:


> I've always sort of wondered this as well... Why does a dog breed NEED to have a working purpose in order to be bred? Is companionship not a purpose?


It is. Although apparently not a good enough purpose for some people :/. But there are a lot more "just pets" than actual working dogs now. Being a pet is their work. . .

What CptJack said because she said it better than I did .


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

CptJack said:


> "Athletic pet". Their capacity to be athletic was being questioned. It just kind of... slid from there, but agreed. Most dogs *don't* need to be and aren't, regardless of breed.


It just seems completely irrelevant to me to try to decide if they are capable of being 'working dogs' when I don't see the breed ever being marketed that way? Am I missing something?

Anyways, not my kind of dogs but I don't see why I'd be 'against' them existing. They seem pretty comparable in structure to Frenchies.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> It just seems completely irrelevant to me to try to decide if they are capable of being 'working dogs' when I don't see the breed ever being marketed that way? Am I missing something?
> 
> Anyways, not my kind of dogs but I don't see why I'd be 'against' them existing. They seem pretty comparable in structure to Frenchies.


I think what happened here was the ability of the dog to be athletic based on its nose was questioned and from there it turned into a question of what constituted athletic/physical ability, based on the build itself. "Could a Boston-" Well, yes, they can and they do. Mine can't and doesn't, but that particular breed can and does.

There is no inherent added value to a dog working, IMO, or being capable of the work unless it's going to be promoted as being one (and that involves more than build). That does not, however, mean that the dogs are physically unsound and physically incapable based on the shape of their head.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Brachycephalic Research Shows Body Condition Is Key to Thermoregulation
http://www.akcchf.org/news-events/library/articles/brachycephalic-research-shows.html
[Excerpts, click link for full article and study details]

The study confirmed that brachycephalic breeds are not as equipped to withstand endurance activities and heat as are nonbrachycephalic breeds but that other factors should be considered for individual dogs. “While brachycephaly had an important impact on our research results, body condition score seemed to have a larger impact,” Davis says. “In other words, being overweight is probably more risky than being brachycephalic and a lean brachycephalic dog may not have that much of a risk. The overweight brachycephalic dogs had two strikes against them.” 

While it is well-known that brachycephalic breeds are at risk of overheating during exercise and in warm climates, the parameters in which they are able to achieve homeostasis, or maintain physiological stability, have not been understood. Davis and his research team set out to identify those parameters. 
Their study included 200 dogs — 100 brachycephalic dogs and 100 size-matched nonbrachycephalic dogs. Among the brachycephalic breeds were Boxers, Boston Terriers, English and French Bulldogs, Pugs, Japanese Chins, and Shih Tzu. Ten to 20 dogs of each breed were examined.
Using a whole-body plethysmograph, a custom-built box similar in size to a dog crate with rapid, sensitive pressure, temperature and humidity sensors, the researchers were able to detect and measure the impact of temperature and humidity changes on dogs by assessing their breathing patterns. 
“In a nutshell, when compared to ‘normal’ dogs, the brachycephalic dogs had higher breathing rates and more shallow breaths,” Davis says. “We speculated that faster, shallower breathing is less sustainable than slower, deeper breathing.”



---
This next one is by a canine dental expert, basically saying he does not think it is ethical to breed dogs to have flat faces due to how much it messes up their mouth.
Stop brachycephalism, now!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3552601/#!po=50.0000
[Again excerpts, click for full article]

In contrast to this functional and desirable design, consider the brachycephaplic skull type as seen in so many dog breeds and some cat breeds. Here the maxilla is too short compared to the mandibles. The upper incisors are in traumatic contact with the floor of the mouth and lower canine teeth. The maxillary premolars are so crowded that there may be no gingiva between and little or no bone support and the teeth may be rotated 90° or more. Some teeth may be under-erupted due to crowding and impaction against adjacent or opposing teeth. The result is that the animal effectively bites itself every time it closes its mouth and there is an extreme predisposition to early onset and rapid progression of periodontal disease. The traumatic contact between the maxillary incisors and the mandibular structures will often lead to traumatic pulpitis and pulp necrosis in the maxillary incisors. There is also often severe bunching-up of the palatal rugae with entrapment of hair, food, and bacteria leading to chronic, painful palatitis hidden from view at the bottom of the deep, closed folds.
Some of the dental/oral liabilities associated with brachycephalism can be mitigated by proactive surgery (selective extraction), but many animals do not get to benefit from these procedures and so live with chronic dental pain and infection.

I wish I could say it was just the brachycephalic breeds that have these issues. Sadly, such is not the case. Highly miniaturized breeds are inclined to have teeth that are proportionally far too large for their mouths, leading to many of the same crowding, under-eruption, non-eruption, and occlusal concerns seen in brachycephalic dogs of all sizes. But one battle at a time.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I will give you teeth issues, though as the guy said: Not unique to brachy breeds.

Given that first concluded that fit brachy breeds are not at 'much' risk, and are at less risk than overweight dogs in general ... Not so much. Is there an affect? YES! Is it as extreme as people would like to believe? Notsomuch. 

And I don't even LIKE Brachy breeds all that much, personally.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

They look like my bully! 
Apparently when he was being sold on kijiji by his "breeder" (or what have you) they were calling him a miniature bulldog. I wonder if that's what they meant....
He's not heat tolerant, and doesn't much care for the cold, but he will go-go-go and shows very little sign of distress afterwards. The only time he shows any distressing sign is in the summer, but in the summer he is constantly fed ice cubes, ice is kept in his water, and he's bathed on the hotter days to keep him cool. We also have sprinklers and he loves them. 
I like that they're using them as a working breed. Toby has so much drive and LOVES to be 'put to work'. If I don't keep him occupied, he just disappears to my bed and sleeps all day.... and that, my friends, is how you end up with a fat dog. Lol


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## Whistlejacket (Jul 26, 2012)

I don't find these dogs pretty at all. Way too extreme for me in many ways, and I never liked the look of cropped ears.



CptJack said:


> I will give you teeth issues, though as the guy said: Not unique to brachy breeds.
> 
> Given that first concluded that fit brachy breeds are not at 'much' risk, and are at less risk than overweight dogs in general ... Not so much. Is there an affect? YES! Is it as extreme as people would like to believe? Notsomuch.
> 
> And I don't even LIKE Brachy breeds all that much, personally.


Like Sibe, I too have read many articles written by vets and researchers on the dangers of extreme brachycephaly and it's definitely a trait I think we should breed away from. We KNOW that brachycephaly can and does cause serious issues, and being purely aesthetic, we just cannot justify breeding for it. Yes, there are individual dogs who do well, and yes, some dogs are affected more than others. But having difficulties breathing and regulating body temperature still seems to be a widespread issue in extreme brachycephalics, so why take a risk that could be so easily avoided?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't like it. It's not my favorite thing in the world. I don't actually want to own another Brachy breed because I am not a fan of the breeds as a whole - I mean I love Bug, but personality wise she isn't my thing. But overstating it to the point of claiming that any dog with a shortened muzzle is not going to be able to be athletic? Oh, baloney. The research actually says dogs are having more issues from being overweight than by being brachy, and toy breeds as a whole have as many dental problems because they're bred for size. 

At what point does it stop being unethical? When the hype stops and it's a breed type YOU like? 

They're not my favorite breeds -again- I'm a herding and sporting person, but claiming these dogs are suffering or unable to perform because of their skull structure, or that the issues they do have is unique to that (tip: it's not. Again, dental issues in toys, heat regulation in ANY even slightly overweight dog), or that there are SLEWS of health issues associated with other things we breed for (like giant breeds) is just- 

Hyperbolic nonsense.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I will say that one thing I notice about brachy breeds are their tenacity to keep on going. They just do not know when to stop. Like Cpt Jack says BT can be athletic. I know of one who at 4 years of age will out play a 5 month old Vizla pup. They belong to co-workers and are brought to work for 'puppy' playdates. We have to separate them because the Vizla is tired and the BT wants to keep playing. The BT is a total clown. 

We do have to worry and take frequent post surgical temps on these breeds because we have had them overheat in the cages. More so from stress because they are in a cage. Dental problems due to overcrowding yes it is problem but like the article says it also is a problem in toy breeds and dental problems exist in other breeds of dogs too. This does not warrant an elimination of these breeds because of this. 

Brach breeds are not my favorite due to the snoring. Some can get pretty loud. It does not mean I do not appreciate their clown like attitude toward life


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## Paviche (Aug 26, 2011)

We had a shorty bull at my last job and she honestly looked and acted just like a Frenchie other than the cropped ears, so I guess I don't get the point. But as always if they're ethically bred and not bred to extremes (although I group those two things together) I don't have a problem with them. Just don't get it.


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## Whistlejacket (Jul 26, 2012)

CptJack said:


> I don't like it. It's not my favorite thing in the world. I don't actually want to own another Brachy breed because I am not a fan of the breeds as a whole - I mean I love Bug, but personality wise she isn't my thing. But overstating it to the point of claiming that any dog with a shortened muzzle is not going to be able to be athletic? Oh, baloney. The research actually says dogs are having more issues from being overweight than by being brachy, and toy breeds as a whole have as many dental problems because they're bred for size.


I don't think anyone in this thread said that athleticism and flat-faces were mutually exclusive, or that ALL flat-faced dogs had trouble exercising; I certainly didn't. An obese dog can lose the weight it gains, a dog that has no nose can't magically grow one. 



CptJack said:


> At what point does it stop being unethical? When the hype stops and it's a breed type YOU like?


I'm not biaised. I don't advocate for breeding for extremes, ever. Even in the breeds I like such as cardi corgis or bull terriers. I won't go to show breeders for these two breeds because I don't want to encourage their production in their current state (and yes, I know that Bug was a rehome).



CptJack said:


> They're not my favorite breeds -again- I'm a herding and sporting person, but claiming these dogs are suffering or unable to perform because of their skull structure, or that the issues they do have is unique to that (tip: it's not. Again, dental issues in toys, heat regulation in ANY even slightly overweight dog), or that there are SLEWS of health issues associated with other things we breed for (like giant breeds) is just-
> 
> Hyperbolic nonsense.


Again, I don't think I or anyone else said anything that extreme. I have seen pictures of pugs doing agility, it would be a lie to claim that brachycephaly always severely impacts the dog's life... and that's not what I said. What I said is that, given the fact that we know about the serious health issues potentially caused by this purely cosmetic feature, it's not acceptable to breed for flatter and flatter faces. And this could apply to any type or breed of dog: I don't like it when people breed for super short legs, super profuse coat, tiny heads etc. I'm just not a fan of extremes in general.


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## Impressive007 (Mar 26, 2015)

I know this is an old thread but just wanted to say that I think Shorty Bulls (despite technically being a "glorified mutt") are the absolute most well rounded Bulldogs available. They're everything a bulldog is (minus the health problems) in a small package. I take mine fishing, running and even surfing (most English or frenchies would drown and if not overheat the places mines has gone). Just sayin: I'm sure there are a lot of opinions on what these dogs truly are, I've owned a lot of dogs (mostly German Shepards and my wife had a Pom) these dogs are everything a big dog is, in a little package. Have a nice day peps


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