# Need help on selecting a GOOD tasting food :)



## spidartanks (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi all, great site. ihave been lurking around and used this site to help me choose my dog food:

i have a 11 week old Newfoundland Puppy
the breeder was feeding him: Purina Puppy chow
then i switched him onto Eaglepack Hollistic Select.


also once he ate Eucanuba puppy food at my mums house.


my problem is he does not like the Eaglepack food ATALL. i have been mixing it for about a week and have found that he has only been eating perhaps a cup and a half a day..(less than half the recommended)

today i put a bowl of,Eaglepack, Purina and Vet Medi Cal to see what he liked best.


He ate the Medical first then the Purina and WOULD NOT TOUCH the eagle pack...???

my question is, WHAT food can you recommended that tastes good and he will eat...Is the Eucunaba food good? do i have to buy large puppy formula too?

also: what do you think about: Royal Canin food?


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## Sugar Daddy Otis (Jan 9, 2008)

Otis LOVES Canidae- and it is for all stages-but he loves it more than any of the other brands of food he's had...I personally have not tried it (ick!) but Otis says it tastes GREAT!! Go to Canidae's website and you can see who sells it around you. I would also stay away from Eukanuba


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## spidartanks (Feb 19, 2008)

Update: Just wanted to add..I was looking on www.dogfoodanalysis.com and could NOT find any LARGE BREED PUPPY FOOD in the 5/6 star ratings except for
Orijen Puppy Large which said it was only subitle for adult dogs only..

i need a large breen Puppy formula that is GOOD and tastes good ( i will buy a SMALL bag from now on to test, i have a 35lb bag of food sitting)


one more: it IS necessary to have Large breed puppy food isnt it? so the bones develop correctly?


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## Sugar Daddy Otis (Jan 9, 2008)

That's why I like Canidae-it is a very good food and it is for all life stages so you don't have to switch from puppy to adult. I also have an extra large breed and I wondered when I should switch from puppy to adult, and people feel very different on this subject. Some feel switch them to adult early, others think keep them on puppy till about a year old. It is all up to you.


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

I would highly recommend Back to Basics pet food. The whole company basically grew from word of mouth because animals loved the taste and owners loved how great their dogs looked. My mother actually owns Back to Basics so I have gotten to see how great it is first hand. Check out www.backtobasicspetfood.com and let me know what you think.


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## spidartanks (Feb 19, 2008)

what are your thoughts on Royal Canine
http://www.royalcanin.ca/index_en.php




Canadae is definantly a food to consider however for rightnow i wanted a puppy large breed food i think?

thanks again everyone


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

spidartanks said:


> what are your thoughts on Royal Canine
> http://www.royalcanin.ca/index_en.php


Royal Canin is not a food I would ever feed. They use brewers rice, beet pulp, and even corn gluten meal...these are all very poor quality ingredients.

Also, their different breed, size, etc formulas are a joke. They are the equivalent of saying a tall person and a short person need different diets or that an Asian person and a Caucasion person need a different diet to be healthy...it's just silly.


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## cascabel (Sep 25, 2007)

Must Love Belle said:


> Also, their different breed, size, etc formulas are a joke. They are the equivalent of saying a tall person and a short person need different diets or that an Asian person and a Caucasion person need a different diet to be healthy...it's just silly.


Yes...and no. While I am less than impressed with Royal Canin foods and I think that *their* breed specific foods are a joke, there is evidence behind gearing foods towards different sizes in dogs. 

Nutrient requirements do not increase linearly in canines with weight. So while two very different size dogs may survive and be 'fine' on the same food, it can't possibly be optimal for both of them. You can check this out in the NRC 2006 guidelines if you are interested.


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## Nova85 (Feb 7, 2008)

I would definelty feed your newfie puppy a large breed food since it is formulated for large breed dog's and aid in promoting slow growth. I would for sure recommend Medi-Cal especially since he eats it. Double check with your vet but he should be on the development but then switched onto Adolescent Formula afterwards.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I could be mistaken, but I read somewhere that All Life Stages food isn't good for large breed dogs when they are puppies, and so it is best to go for the large breed puppy for them.

That said, I expect my dogs to eat what I give them. They are taught this by me putting down the food bowl for 15 minutes and pulling it up. If they do not eat then, they go hungry until the next meal. Switching around from food to food can actually cause a dog to be picky.

When I got Shippo and switched him to his new food (Canidae), he wanted to be picky. That lasted about two days, and after that, he ate that food with gusto.


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

Cheetah said:


> I could be mistaken, but I read somewhere that All Life Stages food isn't good for large breed dogs when they are puppies, and so it is best to go for the large breed puppy for them.
> 
> That said, I expect my dogs to eat what I give them. They are taught this by me putting down the food bowl for 15 minutes and pulling it up. If they do not eat then, they go hungry until the next meal. Switching around from food to food can actually cause a dog to be picky.
> 
> When I got Shippo and switched him to his new food (Canidae), he wanted to be picky. That lasted about two days, and after that, he ate that food with gusto.


All Life Stages Formula?
We have all seen formulas for each life stage (puppy/kitten, adult, senior). However, recently the Super Premium pet foods are saying that single formulas made for "all life stages" are healthier for our pets. To know who is correct lets begin with a logical point of view. 
Stepping away from pets for a moment we look at ourselves and ask... Does a healthy and complete meal change from when we are 4 years old to 29 years old or even 80 years old? The answer is obviously "no". The American Medical Association confirms that a nutritious diet of whole healthy foods is recommended for all people of all ages. Any meal that is complete, balanced, and healthy remains complete, balanced, and healthy even as we age. However, when pet food manufacturers tell us young pets need different food from adult or senior pets, and in some cases breed specific foods (which is like saying a tall person and a short person should eat differently), we simply nod and take their word for it. The question we should be asking is: Why is there a variation in the formulas and is this variation healthier for our animals? 
Protein and fat are the ingredients most affected by different life stage formulas. We are told that puppies require much higher protein levels for their growth and overall health. This is very true. In fact, research tells us that the ideal protein range for growing puppies is between 20%-23%. Protein levels for puppies should not fall below this range (20%-23%); puppies fed 17% protein showed slightly depressed growth and restlessness. Puppies fed protein levels higher than 23% (from 25%-37%) grew at the same rate as those fed at 23% but showed growth problems. Excess protein (higher than 23%) causes the puppy's blood to be more acidic. Their bodies use the calcium from the bones to make the blood more alkaline. This causes a calcium deficiency which can cause growth problems. The same holds true with kittens except that the amount of protein and fat needed for cats is higher. Ideal levels of protein range between 33%-35% and optimum fat levels range between 20%-22%. 
Does the level of protein needed for ideal health in our adult and senior pets decrease as they age? No, it does not. Protein levels of 20%-23% for dogs and 33%-35% for cats are still ideal for the long term health of our older pets. However, our adults and senior pet do not "require it for survival". They will, in fact, survive on the lower protein levels; they just will not be as healthy. That is the how many pet food manufacturers are able to lower the protein levels for our older pets. There are several benefits to feeding the optimum protein levels. For instance, less food is required to meet the daily needs, muscling is promoted, the higher protein provides additional amino acids for use in stress conditions such as disease, wound healing, lactation, etc., and it favorably influences antibody formation. So what benefit is it to the manufacturer to reduce protein in our older pets if the same protein is ideal for kittens, puppies, adults, and seniors? Protein is very expensive, and reducing protein quantities significantly reduces the cost of producing pet food. Simply put, profit is put before health. 
Continued 

The qualities of the proteins used are essential when reading protein levels. If low quality proteins are used; then much of this protein is not digested. In other words, our pets are not getting the protein it states on the label. The effect, either our pets do not receive enough protein for optimum health or, in puppy foods, labels show much higher levels than are needed because only a fraction of that protein is utilized and digested. Whether reading a puppy or kitten label, an adult label, or a senior label the protein quantity listed does not mean your animal is receiving that protein. To ensure our pets are getting the right amount of protein, pet foods made with human quality proteins listed in the "meal" form, such as "Chicken meal" are the best. Any by-products or vegetable proteins should be avoided as they are not as digestible and leave us guessing how much protein our animals are really getting. 
Turning our focus to fat; animals metabolize fat the same manner humans metabolize carbohydrates. Animals use fat for almost every function in their bodies. High fat consumption dramatically increases endurance levels, and helps your pet maintain a healthy body temperature in extreme weather conditions. A high fat ratio provides important resistance to heat exhaustion, heat stroke and hypothermia. High fat promotes a healthy skin and coat. So, why do so many pet foods have low fat content (adequate in some puppy/kitten foods, and then dropping dramatically in adult and senior foods)? Simply put, there are three reasons; 
(1) High fat in a food reduces the shelf life of that food.
(2) High fat used with low quality proteins will cause diarrhea in your animal
(3) Fat is very expensive. 
Does the amount of fat needed for your pet's optimum health decrease as they get older? No, but once again pets do not need as much fat to sustain life when they get older. We are told to reduce the amount of fat we are feeding our pets because it contributes to overweight pets. This is true in humans not animals. High carbohydrate levels interfere with your pet's ability to metabolize fat, causing them to store it. That is why, as our animals get older and are switched to adult and senior formulas in which the protein and fat levels have been cut significantly, our animals become obese. Fat will keep your animals lean. Carbohydrates used to replace the fat will make them overweight. This is not what is healthiest for our pets. Optimum fat levels are from 17%-20% in dogs and 22% in cats. 
In conclusion, formulas geared to specific life stages (puppy/kitten, adult, senior) supply only the minimum nutrition needed for the basic survival of our pets at each life stage. In contrast, foods made for all life stages provide the best nutrition possible for all ages. There are other factors to be taken into consideration when choosing an "all life stages" formula, some of them are: 
•	Only feed formulas that use human quality ingredients that are hormone and antibiotic free 
•	Only feed formulas that use whole, healthy ingredients and never feed by-products or fillers (any carbohydrate source followed by the words "gluten", "flour", "hull", or "bran") 
•	Only feed formulas that use natural preservatives such as Vitamin E, C, and Rosemary Extract, never feed chemical preservatives (BHA, BHT, or Ethoxyquin) 
By following these basic guidelines, we will have done our part to ensure the best health possible for our beloved pets.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I am curious why you are quoting me, and then telling me a bunch of what I already know (on a forum, when you quote somebody, and then type out paragraphs of stuff, it is like you are talking directly to them, and nobody else).

If you are addressing only me, then you apparently didn't read my entire post. My OWN dogs both eat ALS food. But they are not large breed dogs who could end up with bone development problems from eating the wrong type of food as puppies.

There is a slight difference between ALS food for humans, and ALS food for dogs. There aren't any "large breed" humans. Aside from the occasional genetic mutation, we are all basically the same size, give or take a foot or two. Most of the ALS foods I've seen have fairly high protein (not to say that other non-ALS foods don't), which you would NOT give to a great dane puppy, according to most things I've read, and what I've been told by two different nutritionists (like I said before, this is just what I have read in my own research, and been told by people who do know what they're talking about, so I was only adding in my two cents).
_
*EDIT:*
BTW, if you're going to post entire articles from somewhere else, you should cite your source. I thought you typed all that out yourself, and then I found it word-for-word on google._


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## Chelsea and Oskar (Feb 18, 2008)

Where is that article from? 
It was soooo helpful! I'm trying to find the right food for my puppy too.


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## EllaMay (Jan 21, 2008)

My recommendation would be Innova which makes a GREAT large breed puppy food or califonia natural. My pup eats cali natural and so does my parents 9 month old lab border collie mix and they both LOVE it! The Innova food is made by Natura and the large breed puppy formula comes in a purple bag. 

Let us know what you decide!


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

Cheetah: I certainly wasn't trying to upset you, I quoted you because you had mentioned life stage formulas and I thought you might find the article as interesting as I did. I just cut and pasted it from the Back to Basics website. I am sorry if that offended you that was not my intention.


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## spidartanks (Feb 19, 2008)

Wow - i cant believe the help that is available on the internet.

i'd just like to say thanks for the help and advice. 


the food i chose to feed my puppy Newfie is: Blue Buffalo Large Puppy formula.

i truly hope that i chose a quality food that enables him to live a healthy happy life. it was rated a 4 star on dogfoodanalysis.com and from asking around also it seemed to be a good food.
also Bentely LOVES it - i understand dogs will eat anyhting if u make nothing else available but i would feel better letting him eat that he enjoys and gets excited for.

thanks again


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

Cheetah said:


> I am curious why you are quoting me, and then telling me a bunch of what I already know (on a forum, when you quote somebody, and then type out paragraphs of stuff, it is like you are talking directly to them, and nobody else).
> 
> If you are addressing only me, then you apparently didn't read my entire post. My OWN dogs both eat ALS food. But they are not large breed dogs who could end up with bone development problems from eating the wrong type of food as puppies.
> 
> ...


You have addressed ALS formulas without expressing what percentages of protein you think are too high; you can't generalize all of them. I actually own an English Mastiff which is a very large breed. She has been eating an All Life Stage diet her whole life. She is 7 years old, has never had any health problems, and still acts like a puppy. Additionally, Back to Basics, the All Life Stage food I feed was formulated by a world renouned English Mastiff Breeder (look up Beowulf Mastiffs). She has won awards for the most testing with positive outcomes and her dogs are actually living longer than is normal for the breed.

I mention this becasue you seem to think there is a distinction between protein requirements for "Large Breeds". There isn't; not in the way of percentages. Granted if you fed a low quality, low digestibilty food that did not offer enough protein you could see the issues quicker in a larger dog because they grow so quickly. However, all dogs are effected negatively from a lack of protein. Too much protein does not affect "growth" it effects pH levels and can be a problem for any breed. As far as humans not having a "Large Breed" I would argue that we do. Caucasions are historically larger than Asians. Certain African cultures are very tall or very short...etc. If we were to break down ethnicity into breeds there would absolutely be large and small. Which is my point...we all human, we all digest food the same and have the same nutritional requirements to be healthy (as a rule of thumb; I understand there can be exceptions based on allergies or health issues). Our dogs are the same...some require higher quantities of food but on a nutritional percentage their bodies break down food the same way whether they are large or small dogs. As long as the protein percentages are between 22-25% (approx.) of a meat based highly digestible protein then all dogs are fine with that. The real question is what is the digestibility of the food. That effects the most.



cascabel said:


> Yes...and no. While I am less than impressed with Royal Canin foods and I think that *their* breed specific foods are a joke, there is evidence behind gearing foods towards different sizes in dogs.
> 
> Nutrient requirements do not increase linearly in canines with weight. So while two very different size dogs may survive and be 'fine' on the same food, it can't possibly be optimal for both of them. You can check this out in the NRC 2006 guidelines if you are interested.


Hey thank you for directing me to the NRC guidelines, the The Dog Food Project web site is linked to it and I thought is was very good and full of great information. I read what they had to say about the guide lines being changed but I didn't get much information beyond the actual statement. For instance, what changes were made and why? I am going to keep an eye on it as I'm always open to new information so thanks again. If you have any more information on it I'd love to hear it. So far it seems like they just said it was changed and didn't give any good information on why but maybe I just didn't find the study. Any help would be great.


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## Irishgirl123 (Mar 3, 2008)

The large breed chicken soup I believe has a 5 star rating


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## jchantelau (Mar 6, 2008)

If the blue buffalo doesn't work out I would suggest trying Natural Variety Prairie. Protein is about 26% compared to their Instinct grain free at 42%. Dogfoodanalysis has it at 5 stars.

My pup loves it.


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