# Won't Take Treats Outside



## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

I've been doing more and more work with Bear outside on walks, both for loose leash walking, and things such as sit/down/stand. The problem I'm having is, once we're outside, he has absolutely no interest whatsoever in treats that he would be tripping over himself for while inside the house. This includes even his highest value treats. This makes training outside very difficult, because he has equally no interest in paying attention to me or anything I say, because I have nothing he wants. He'll do what I tell him to once I get his attention, but getting his attention is nearly impossible. He'll stare off in every direction EXCEPT at me. It's more than a little embarrassing to have him totally blow me off in the middle of the sidewalk, and in more than one instance I've had to nearly knock him off his feet by yanking the leash because he was ignoring me and about to wander out into the street. I've read plenty of articles on teaching loose leash walking, including the one sticky here, but they all revolve around giving treats when the dog is walking properly, which he won't take. I praise him when he's walking properly, but I don't even know if he hears me for how much he ignores me. My eventual goal is to take the CGN test (the Canadian version of the CGC test,) but right about now it's feeling hopeless. If I can't get him to walk properly under normal circumstances, I can't begin to imagine how I'll do it for the various stages of the test.


----------



## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Won't take treats is a classic sign of over threshold. For many many dogs it is the only sign they're over their ability to deal with the environment. 

How long have you had him?

I had to work with Gatsby for six to eight months before he'd pay the slightest bit of attention to me. He would not take treats, he would not look at me, he would sit down eventually if I waited him out but it was with his back towards me fixated on something else in the environment. A combination of time and working under threshold have brought him around.

Will he take treats inside with the door open? Will he take treats in a parking lot? Will he take treats in the garage? Finding a place where he can work easily is key. Train for fluency in easy locations and slooowwwly move to more distracting environments.


----------



## a7dk (Mar 30, 2011)

I had a similar problem when I first got Hobbes (only a couple of months ago now, so take anything I say with a grain of salt). Anyway, he was about a year old and had no manners whatsoever when we adopted him. Like you, he seemed to do really well on his training inside but lost interest in us or in treats once he got outside the door. One thing we did which really helped was to not feed him prior to his walk. In the morning, we go on a walk before he gets breakfast, and we use raw hot dogs cut up into tiny pieces, which eventually started to get his attention. First, start in your driveway (if you have one). Once you can get him taking treats and paying some attention to you there, try taking him up and down in front of your house. We did a variation of this, starting in a nearby parking lot and moving up to more distracting environments. We've been working with Hobbes on this for 2 months now (he was really terrible at loose-leash walking; pulling virtually 100% of the time) and he is finally starting to heel properly at our sides. He still pulls forward often, but just a few steps usually, and he'll come back when we say "back" and look at us. 

Now that he's more interested in us during our walks, we give him a treat every time he looks up at us (whoever's got the leash). That way he learned quickly that paying attention to us is very reinforcing, so he tends to stay in the sweet spot much more. Like I said, we've been working on this diligently for 2 walks a day for 2 months now, and it's only now starting to really pay off. We still don't take him in the park, because the increased distraction of all the birds and squirrels would be way too much for him at this point.

I think the main thing is to remember this is normal dog behavior and try not to get too frustrated with him - go at his pace. Good luck!


----------



## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I agree with the others, this is likely an over threshold thing and he may be anxious or simply overstimulated outside. Starting slower and in other situations first may help, but you can also start thinking about premacking things you want to train...an example of premack would be a dog that spends a lot of time pulling you to sniff things, you start using the ok to sniff as a reward for something else. Like as for a sit, get a sit, release to "go sniff". But for this to work you really must have a sense of whether this is anxiety or not.

How long have you had him? Can you see or hear what is making him distracted at all? Does he 'Scan' when he's outside (constantly looking side to side)? What does his body language look like?

BTW, you need to try and get over the embarrassment factor. I understand it, but all it does is increase your frustration with the dog and makes things WORSE, not better. He's not blowiing you off and it's not about respect. It's about distraction.


----------



## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

TorachiKatashi said:


> I've been doing more and more work with Bear outside on walks, both for loose leash walking, and things such as sit/down/stand. The problem I'm having is, once we're outside, he has absolutely no interest whatsoever in treats that he would be tripping over himself for while inside the house.


Then do all your work in the house. Then in the doorway. Then 1 foot outside. Then 5 feet. etc. When a dog is this distracted and possibly fearful, they can't learn. It's not stubbornness. It's just an inability to focus because everything inside him is screaming for him to focus on x,y,z. You may or may not be one of those things. Sounds like right now you're not and the more pressure you put on him with leash pops and commands, the worse you're making it.

Use his willingness to take treats as your guide to his state of mind. If he readily takes them, he's in a frame of mind to learn. If he hesitates, back off the pressure a little. If he totally ignores you and the treat, back way way off.

The more you work with him, keeping up the training while he is unstressed, the more you can become one of the things he pays attention to.


----------



## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Another thing you can do, when he is taking treats, is to reinforce a LOT. Like a treat every 3-5 seconds. 

Allow him time to investigate the environment before you ask him to work with you.

An often over looked reinforcer is the opportunity to LEAVE the stressful environment.


----------



## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

I've had him since he was eight-weeks-old, and he turns seven-years-old tomorrow, but we've only been doing R+ work for the last few weeks.

I'd say it was more over-stimulation than anxiety. Generally, if he's ignoring me, it's because he's got his nose stuffed into the grass along the sidewalk, or is staring off at a person/dog/who knows what in the distance. I've seen him when he was anxious, and it really doesn't seem like that to me. Once I can get him to look at me, he's perfectly willing to Sit or Down or whatever I ask him to, even though he won't take a treat afterwards. It's just a matter of trying to haul his nose out of whatever little shrub he's sniffing so he WILL look at me. Even with his favourite treats in my pouch, whatever he smells or sees is more interesting than me.

Is there anything I can do for his loose-leash walking in the meantime, while I'm trying to work him up to working on walks? He already seems to be getting the hang of walking near my left side, so should I just keep praising him when he does?


----------



## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

How did he walk for the last six years?


----------



## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

I have had this problem with Brady many times and found that, outside, toys and play seem to be better motivators for him. Weird, but is what it is. You could try switching the motivator...


----------



## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

RaeganW said:


> How did he walk for the last six years?


When he was younger he was a huge puller, but a few years ago we switched him to a Martingale collar and that cut down on a lot of the pulling. He would still forge ahead quite a bit, but none of the knock-you-off-your-feet pulling like when he was in a harness or on a flat collar. I've noticed a bit difference in him in the last few weeks, though. Before, the only way I could keep him at my side was to physically keep him there with the leash (which usually caused him to shut down and just sit on the sidewalk and not want to do anything.) I have definitely noticed a big difference. I'd say he keeps where I want him to (within the general vicinity of my left side; I don't require a perfect heel for a walk) 75% of the time now, and when he isn't where I want him to be, it's because he's lagging behind to sniff something, not because he's forging ahead.


----------



## a7dk (Mar 30, 2011)

TorachiKatashi said:


> Is there anything I can do for his loose-leash walking in the meantime, while I'm trying to work him up to working on walks? He already seems to be getting the hang of walking near my left side, so should I just keep praising him when he does?


Reinforce him (with treats if he'll take them, praise if not) when he's doing the right thing. Someone mentioned Premacking before - and I do that too with some success. When Hobbes is walking how I want him to, I give him a little slack to go sniff. As far as what you can do in the meantime, have you tried the Gentle Leader? It's made a world of difference for Hobbes' pulling. I mean, the videos are pretty misleading if your dog isn't completely willing to just do whatever you say naturally (it makes it seem like it's magic and the dog will just automatically turn around to face you when he starts pulling) but it has been very helpful. Now, when he pulls, is it more gentle and he isn't able to just drag me off my feet or anything. And you can use it while you train, until you get him used to walking where you want him consistently.


----------



## troglodytezzz (Oct 19, 2010)

There is a long history of pulling here. Maybe an equipment change will work. Try using a harness with your loose leash walking training. Get either the no pull type or one that has a ring on the front (chest) that you can clip the lead to. Start training indoors and then gradually work outside as described in a post above. When you do train make sure he hasn't eaten in about 2 hours so he is hungry. You might even want to feed him all of his meals outdoors so that he gets used to eating outside.

I have also used premack with Eppy. He isn't particularity foody so I put "go sniff" on cue. I give him that cue when he is walking nicely beside me. I have gradually increased the time that he walks at my side before giving the cue. I have also let him chase squirrels occasionally when he looks at them and still continues to walk well. Sometimes I will see him glance at a telephone pole but continue walking and I will give him a big "yes!" and lead him right back to the pole and let him sniff it to his heart's content. All these things have really made him walk well on a lead.


----------

