# Refusing to pee outside



## ladyithis (Sep 26, 2007)

My husband and I have a JUST turned 12 week old Pembroke Welsh Corgi, Cassie. She's a fun, happy, playful dog, and we love her a lot. 

Three days ago, she decided she wasn't going to pee outside anymore. She would still go outside for walks, or to play, or to poop, just not to pee. She'll either go in her crate or pees in the house for the half-second we might not be watching her (yes, our fault, we know). I don't know what to do about this anymore. 

1.) We have a daily routine. I wake up, take her out of her crate, and take her outside for potty first thing. Usually she goes, recently she'll be either licking the dew off the grass, or just stands there and looks at me, or even refuses to leave the house. We'll go back inside and get breakfast. This morning she drank a lot of water, so I was sure she would need to go. We go for a walk around the condo development so she can stretch her legs and eliminate as needed. Usually she'll pee and poop, recently, she's only been pooping. She'll sniff everything in everyone's yards, but that's what she usually does. And she'll always find a place to pee along the way. When she eliminates, she gets a treat, along with a "good potty" praise. After the walk, she goes back into her crate, and then I go to work. Repeat this process at lunch time, and when I return from work. After work, we'll play in the yard with her, and she'll sit with us while we watch TV. We'll take her out for potty every so often, and once before bed. 

2.) Last night, since I was frustrated in taking her out for 15+ minutes (trying to wait her out, figured if we were out long enough, she'd pee eventually; we even went on several walks) per attempt, my husband took her out. He would take her off the leash, or let her out of the house without her leash, and then she would pee in the yard. Since she's getting bigger and faster, I want to keep her on the leash. My husband and I had a talk about this so he understands that she needs to stay on the leash, regardless of her needing to potty or not. 

3.) Took her out at 11:40pm last night when she was whining and being restless in her crate at bedtime. It took a couple minutes of her walking around the yard, but she peed eventually. Attempted to do the same at 1:45am, and she just stood there looking at me. I even released her from the leash because I wanted her to go potty (and thought my husband's trick would work), and she just ran back to the door of the house. This morning, I discovered she peed twice in her crate. 

4.) She has no qualms about peeing in her crate. We put down a puppy pad in the crate, but she'll either start licking the pee in the pad, or pull it up (after having it folded/taped to the underside the bedding) and shove it to the back of her crate so she doesn't have to lay in it. The crate is barely bigger than she is, so even if she ends up pottying on her bedding, she'll still lie in it. She's taken to crying about it too, especially when I come home from work at lunchtime. 

5.) Every accident she makes, ever time she pees in her crate, it all gets cleaned up with Nature's Miracle. Peeing in the house is rarely ever the same spot, and fortunately, she's doing it in some very obvious areas, so we notice it right away and can clean it up. If we find an accident, we'll scold the accident, and then one of us will take her outside to potty again/show her that we do that outside, while the other cleans it up. 

6.) Not sure if this is related, but last weekend we had a diarrhea issue because I changed her food too fast. That's been remedied. But while it was going on, she would pee outside like normal. It's only been since Sunday (after her food was changed back and her stool reached a regular consistency) that she's been refusing to pee outside. (She was on Avoderm, and then we switched to Go. I'm having her eat a 3/4 Avoderm, 1/4 Go mix at the moment and she's doing fine on it). 

7.) Saw the vet yesterday for her 12-week shots. He couldn't give us any advice that we hadn't already read or been told. He told us to clean up any accidents with Nature's Miracle (which we were already doing). He said we should try to take her out regularly (we do, and are pretty good at reading her body language when she needs to go out: whining in her crate, being restless, sniffing the carpet for a place to potty, et cetera). He also said it was abnormal for her to tolerate peeing in her crate if she would have to deal with it. (I've been told this by other dog owning friends, but like I said, she's got no qualms about it). 

8.) She's still playing fine, she'll go outside fine to poop, to play, and to walk, it's just the peeing she's refusing to do outside. 

EDIT 9.) When she has gone potty, we haven't noticed her acting like she's in pain, so if she's sick, she's not displaying it very well. 

I have no idea what we're doing wrong, or how we can remedy the problem. I hope I included everything that might be pertinent to the issue, and maybe someone out there might have some suggestions on how to encourage her to pee outside again. 

Thanks in advance.


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## LoveLilly (Oct 25, 2006)

ok.....
I just want to say that I am very happy that you are dedicated to taking a young pup out as often as they need to which is something alot of people just dont get.

first I noticed that you said you put potty pads in the crate. If you are going to train for yard potty & regularly get her out of her crate to potty take away the pads. They absorb the moisture and make it easy to soil in the crate. Put her bedding and items to occupy her time in there. and then like usual take her out on a normal routine so you help her to be successful. How long is she in her crate during your workday? It may be from the time you leave in the AM till lunch that that is too long to hold it? I bet 3-4 hours is her limit at 12 weeks of age which could contribute to her crate accidents. 

I did not see you mention any type of reward for going in the yard? In addition you need to teach her the command for it. For instance, we said to Lilly "lets go potty" and said it while walking to the door together. We got to the door & I gave her a cheerio. We go outside and when she starts to pee I repeat "go potty" the whole time, when done she got a cheerio, belly rubs, we were all excited....quite frankly it was a potty party in the yard. Same for poop, etc.... another thing we do as a reward when we want her to go is if we take her out on leash we say go potty and she understands we mean business. When she is done the leash comes off and she runs like a wild dog which she loves!!! So that is another option as a reward as well but in the beginning little food bits like cheerio's work very well. Eventually you phase out food with verbal praise.

In the house you have to watch her 24x7 which I am sure you know.....but i mean really watch her every second and if you have her on a strict schedule she will learn outside is the place to be. Lilly is a tiny dog so at 3 months old she was about 3-4 pounds and could only hold it 2 hours so we were outside for potty time every 1-2 hours. I wanted her to have every chance to go.

Also, to help her go let her stretch her legs in the yard and run run run. Exercise makes them have to go which gives you the opportunity to reward her and repeat the commands.

Things that help are a very strict schedule, everyone uses the same commands, schedule drinking water time and pick up water 2 hours before bedtime, etc....Only scold her for in house accidents when you catch her in the act otherwise she does not understand. She only knows that this spot on the carpet is getting your attention & we don't want that. If we found an accident after the fact we cleaned it up while someone else had her in the yard. 

Another thing we did in the beginning is I did not take Lilly for walks to teach her to potty outside since I had a fenced yard. I wanted her to associate the backyard with potty time and not requiring a walk to do it. Just my own thought process on that.

Good luck.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

I agree, with lots of pups when going outside going to the bathroom is the last thing on their mind which is where the go potty command comes in great use because it reminds them why they are out there. Also punishing the dog is only confusing the dog because if you notice an accident and then bring the dog to it and punish it, it will not know why you are doing it because they can't associate the pee stain with why its being punished. If you catch the dog in the middle of going say ah ah to interupt the dog and then rush her outside for her to finish.


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## the-tenth (Jun 29, 2007)

ladyithis said:


> 4.) She has no qualms about peeing in her crate. We put down a puppy pad in the crate, but she'll either start licking the pee in the pad, or pull it up (after having it folded/taped to the underside the bedding) and shove it to the back of her crate so she doesn't have to lay in it. The crate is barely bigger than she is, so even if she ends up pottying on her bedding, she'll still lie in it. She's taken to crying about it too, especially when I come home from work at lunchtime.
> 
> 7.) Saw the vet yesterday for her 12-week shots. He couldn't give us any advice that we hadn't already read or been told. He told us to clean up any accidents with Nature's Miracle (which we were already doing). He said we should try to take her out regularly (we do, and are pretty good at reading her body language when she needs to go out: whining in her crate, being restless, sniffing the carpet for a place to potty, et cetera). He also said it was abnormal for her to tolerate peeing in her crate if she would have to deal with it. (I've been told this by other dog owning friends, but like I said, she's got no qualms about it).
> 
> 8.) She's still playing fine, she'll go outside fine to poop, to play, and to walk, it's just the peeing she's refusing to do outside.


Well I may be wrong, but in addition to what Lilly said, the puppy pads (or the ones that I've seen) anre supposed to encourage the puppy to pee on them. That may be one of your crate problems. They're designed to get the dog peeing in one spot, and that spot is on the pad. And it doesn't sound to me like she's tolerating it. You said she's crying about it, which means she doesn't like it and it's uncomfortable for her. And 4 hours is a lot of time to expect a 12 week old to hold it. If the crate is barely bigger than she is, and she *has* to go, then where else is she going to lay other than in the pee? I would set my alram 30 minutes earlier, and "wait it out" like you said. But expect to spend more time outside. Also, make sure she isn't getting water a good hour before she goes into the crate. Hope this helps. Remember, potty training is a process.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Exactly, I once waited my dog out for an hour to get him to go to the bathroom but he went!


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## the-tenth (Jun 29, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> Also punishing the dog is only confusing the dog because if you notice an accident and then bring the dog to it and punish it, it will not know why you are doing it because they can't associate the pee stain with why its being punished.


I don't think they are punishing the dog, but the accident. Basically telling the pee spot it shouldn't be there, and so on.


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## ladyithis (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks for the reply, LoveLilly!  



LoveLilly said:


> first I noticed that you said you put potty pads in the crate. If you are going to train for yard potty & regularly get her out of her crate to potty take away the pads. They absorb the moisture and make it easy to soil in the crate. Put her bedding and items to occupy her time in there. and then like usual take her out on a normal routine so you help her to be successful. How long is she in her crate during your workday? It may be from the time you leave in the AM till lunch that that is too long to hold it? I bet 3-4 hours is her limit at 12 weeks of age which could contribute to her crate accidents.


If I took out the pads, but left the bedding in, do you think she may mistake the bedding for potty pad? (She's chosen towels and blankets on the floor for a potty place when she's had "accidents", that's the only reason why I'm concerned about her mistaking her bedding for a potty pad). She still get her toys in there, but that doesn't stop her from pottying. Yes, she's home for about 3-4 hours at a time, and although, I don't expect her to hold it the entire time, there are the rare occasions where she's zonked out until I get home, and doesn't potty in the crate. I guess I put the pad in there so she had a place to go if she needs to. 



LoveLilly said:


> I did not see you mention any type of reward for going in the yard? In addition you need to teach her the command for it. For instance, we said to Lilly "lets go potty" and said it while walking to the door together. We got to the door & I gave her a cheerio. We go outside and when she starts to pee I repeat "go potty" the whole time, when done she got a cheerio, belly rubs, we were all excited....quite frankly it was a potty party in the yard. Same for poop, etc.... another thing we do as a reward when we want her to go is if we take her out on leash we say go potty and she understands we mean business. When she is done the leash comes off and she runs like a wild dog which she loves!!! So that is another option as a reward as well but in the beginning little food bits like cheerio's work very well. Eventually you phase out food with verbal praise.


Yep, I know the post was pretty long, so I can understand if that got lost: "When she eliminates, she gets a treat, along with a "good potty" praise." She's been a little picky about her treats lately, and I think that's because of the diarrhea, but usually jerky treats or a piece of Avoderm gets her pretty excited. We've only had her for six weeks now, so maybe she still doesn't understand "potty" even though we say it a billion times a day.  We tell her that every time we go outside and that's what we need her to do. The times when I spent 15 minutes out there, I would tell her that every time she would start to sniff around, "go potty", and she'd just stand there and look at me. I really wish I could understand "doglish". 



LoveLilly said:


> Another thing we did in the beginning is I did not take Lilly for walks to teach her to potty outside since I had a fenced yard. I wanted her to associate the backyard with potty time and not requiring a walk to do it. Just my own thought process on that.


I think this process might be a bit easier if we did have a fenced in yard. We live in a condo/townhouse development, and so all the "yards" (i.e. strips of grass) are shared property, and nothing is fenced in. At this point in time, I'm just happy if she goes potty anywhere outside  

I'll try taking the potty pads out and see if we have any success with it. This afternoon she didn't have any pads or bedding in her crate, and there wasn't a mess in there, and she did go pee straight away outside (which gained a lot of praise and treats). However, even though she drank a lot of water at lunch, she still did not potty on our walk, or prior to returning to her crate. I'll see in a couple hours what state she's in, but I guess that's a start.



the-tenth said:


> I don't think they are punishing the dog, but the accident. Basically telling the pee spot it shouldn't be there, and so on.


Yes, if we find an accident, we will point at it and tell it "bad potty!" Cassie is usually somewhere nearby, but she's not being the one punished. My husband will usually take her outside after that while I clean it up. (I read in Puppies for Dummies, or our Corgi book that if they see you cleaning up their mess, they'll think it's a good thing to potty on the floor).


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well still the dog doesn't understand why its being yelled at, so saying bad potty is like talking to a wall.


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## the-tenth (Jun 29, 2007)

ladyithis said:


> I think this process might be a bit easier if we did have a fenced in yard. We live in a condo/townhouse development, and so all the "yards" (i.e. strips of grass) are shared property, and nothing is fenced in. At this point in time, I'm just happy if she goes potty anywhere outside


Try taking the pads out, and also make the potty routine different somehow than the walk. If you are taking her out just to potty, maybe go out a back door. Or if there is none, every time you walk her start by turning right out the door. When you take her out to potty turn left, or something like that. You want to establish a completely seperate routine for just pottying.


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## ladyithis (Sep 26, 2007)

the-tenth said:


> Well I may be wrong, but in addition to what Lilly said, the puppy pads (or the ones that I've seen) anre supposed to encourage the puppy to pee on them. That may be one of your crate problems. They're designed to get the dog peeing in one spot, and that spot is on the pad. And it doesn't sound to me like she's tolerating it. You said she's crying about it, which means she doesn't like it and it's uncomfortable for her. And 4 hours is a lot of time to expect a 12 week old to hold it. If the crate is barely bigger than she is, and she *has* to go, then where else is she going to lay other than in the pee? I would set my alram 30 minutes earlier, and "wait it out" like you said. But expect to spend more time outside. Also, make sure she isn't getting water a good hour before she goes into the crate. Hope this helps. Remember, potty training is a process.


We move the water dishes to a higher location (we have cats, so as long as they can get to it and she can't, it's okay) at 7:30. Bedtime is usually about 10:30. She'll get a "last out" before we get ready for bed, and more often than not, she's sleeping on the couch or floor or somewhere around us by 9:00. 

Honestly, I don't expect her to hold it the entire time she's in her crate during the day. (Which is why I put the potty pads in there, so she has a place to go when she absolutely needs to go and we're not home to take her out). What I expect her to do is potty outside when we go outside like she did up until three days ago. When we take her outside to potty, and she refuses to go for whatever her reasons are, and then we take her inside because we need to go to work or it's bedtime, and she potties in her crate, then I think there's something wrong with what we're doing. 

I would hope that through the positive reinforcement (i.e. treats and praise) that she would understand that going potty outside is a GOOD thing. And since she gets no praise for pottying in her crate, that she would learn it's not such a good idea. So if she's got the chance to go outside (especially when we're pretty sure she needs to go: panting, pacing, sniffing the floor, being restless, et cetera), I would hope she would think to take that opportunity.

But I'll definitely try removing the pads entirely and see how she does with that. I just hope she doesn't mistake her bedding as a potty pad.



Durbkat said:


> Well still the dog doesn't understand why its being yelled at, so saying bad potty is like talking to a wall.


We're NOT yelling at the dog. We're yelling at the potty, the accident, the stain on the rug.



the-tenth said:


> Try taking the pads out, and also make the potty routine different somehow than the walk. If you are taking her out just to potty, maybe go out a back door. Or if there is none, every time you walk her start by turning right out the door. When you take her out to potty turn left, or something like that. You want to establish a completely seperate routine for just pottying.


That sounds good. We have a bunch of bushes next to our house, and she found it more comfortable to potty around there during her diarrhea instead of the grass patch next to the garage. I think I'll start taking her out there for potty from now on, since we like to play with her in the grassy area. (Even though she usually peed on the border of that area).


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## the-tenth (Jun 29, 2007)

ladyithis said:


> But I'll definitely try removing the pads entirely and see how she does with that. I just hope she doesn't mistake her bedding as a potty pad.


Well, whatever the reason that she's not holding it, I don't think you can expect taking the pad out tonight to clear it up. Expect for her to have an accident in their tonight. Having said that, make sure whatever you put down for her is easily washable (I would assume her bedding is, but maybe not). The runs may have just made her regress. I know when we boarded our 5 month old pup, she came back lie we had never trained her. It sounds like your doing the right things. Hopefully with a couple of tweeks, she'll be trained again in no time.



Durbkat said:


> Well still the dog doesn't understand why its being yelled at, so saying bad potty is like talking to a wall.


I disagree. !. What's it going to hurt? Other than making me feel a little silly for yelling a poo? 2. I'm pretty sure that my dogs are smart enough to figure this out. Hey there's a turd on the floor, and it's getting yelled at. Every time there's a turd on the floor, it gets in trouble. BUT when it's in the grass, it doesn't get yelled at. That turd's not supposed to be in here.


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## ladyithis (Sep 26, 2007)

the-tenth said:


> Well, whatever the reason that she's not holding it, I don't think you can expect taking the pad out tonight to clear it up. Expect for her to have an accident in their tonight. Having said that, make sure whatever you put down for her is easily washable (I would assume her bedding is, but maybe not). The runs may have just made her regress. I know when we boarded our 5 month old pup, she came back lie we had never trained her. It sounds like your doing the right things. Hopefully with a couple of tweeks, she'll be trained again in no time.


Yeah, the bedding is some inexpensive washable stuff from Petco (the liner is soft on top and plastic on the bottom to "catch" anything that leaks through, and it's removable from the stuffing inside). I usually wash it about once a week (when the puppy pads would be on top of it). I could put a towel in there if that's being washed though. 

You're probably right about the regressing. I didn't think she would since she was peeing just fine while she was feeling icky, and now pooping totally fine as well.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I'd just leave nothing in the crate (yes, a bare crate) for now- you can put it back in when she gets further along. But get rid of the potty pads in the crate for sure. 

Secondly, I'd pick one spot in the yard that was the pee spot- the bushes that you mentioned would work well. Every time you go out, take her on leash- and hang around by those bushes and be boring until she pees. It may take 5 minutes, it may take half an hour- but stay there till she pees and then reward liberally with GOOD food (I recommend chicken, lvier, or hot dogs- use the corgi food drive to work for you.  )

Corgis do really, really well with consistant boundaries- but you've got to enforce them. Try this consistantly (100% consistantly) for a full week before deciding it's not working- but I betcha it will. After that week, you can try letting her off leash to go out 1/4 of the time- but walk with her over to the bushes (I'm assuming they're in your fenced yard), then slowly work it back to where she is eventually allowed to go out in the yard by herself. But go slowly- good potty habits are worth taking the time to train correctly.


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## ladyithis (Sep 26, 2007)

Update!

Thanks everyone for all your advice! In the last week, she's done much better  

She really agreed with using the bushes next to the house as a designated potty area. When we go outside, that's the first place she stops. If she feels like it, she'll go in the yard (grass), but not often. I've also discovered another neighbor has been letting their dog use our side yard for a potty spot too and not cleaning up after, but that's another rant in itself 

She's still hit and miss with peeing in the crate, but that's fine. I honestly don't expect her to hold it all the time, but know she can hold it through the night and for the couple hours at a time she's in her crate during the day. Perhaps she'll learn to make it a habit after awhile. She might be learning our daily routine well, too. 

If she does make it, I've been giving her an extra treat of some chicken on top of her meals (which usually coincide with coming out of the crate). She really seems to enjoy it  

She's been better at telling us when she needs to go out. The other night while we were making dinner she was milling around by the back door (the one we use to go outside for potty). My husband picked up on it right away and she went right outside to potty when he opened the door for her. 

And on top of all of that, she's finally learned to go up and down the stairs  I think she finally realized she was big enough to make it up and down without too many issues. 

Again, thanks to this community and your knowledge.


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## LoveLilly (Oct 25, 2006)

Glad to hear that things are progressing nicely. 

I just have one note, if at all possible to have someone take her out before she reaches the end of her "potty hold time" b/c I would hate to think that the potty in the crate becomes a habit b/c its being allowed since you understand she cannot hold it.

I was in your shoes with hold time since Lilly is so small (at 8 weeks was barely 2 lbs = 1 hr hold time), but created a 2 room crate with a divider and doorway - 1 side pee pad 1 side bedding. I think we got lucky b/c she started holding it on her own as she got older and we phased out the pee pads quite successfully by 4-5 months. I was just very happy that she knew to walk to the pee pad and then back to her bedding.

Good Luck!!


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