# "Hur hur I'm so hungry I'm going to puke, but I'm not going to eat!"



## acover4422 (Oct 24, 2011)

Hello all,

Another little question about my big blue-eyed, water-sploshing, attention-craving cuddle monster.

For the third time in about three weeks, Baloo has thrown up this foamy yellow stuff (he then proceeds to shake his head and flick it everywhere, yay!). A little internet research told me that he's throwing up because he's hungry. It seems to make sense: he always does it on an empty stomach, there are no chunks of food in it and he won't eat it up (internet says that's a sign it's acidic vomit, which is another indication it's just hunger-vomit).

While I rejoice in the knowledge that my dog likes to throw up just because he's hungry (they never tell you this crap on Lassie), there's a small problem. He's not really eating.

For his weight and age, he should be eating 4 cups of his puppy food twice a day. In fact, I feed him the 4 cups in the morning and he just grazes on it throughout the day. Usually there's still some left when I go to feed him in the evening.

I took him to the vet yesterday for a routine checkup and they said that there isn't anything wrong with him (or his teeth, which I suspected) and maybe he has just passed his huge growth spurt that would make him eat a lot. That would make sense for his age, but I'm a little worried.

Do dogs really vomit like that just because they're hungry? And assuming they do, is it normal that he will throw up because he's so hungry, but not eat?
_(He's on Beneful puppy food. We had him on Nature's Recipe a few months ago but it gave him extremely explosive diarohhea and vomiting! He seems to like Beneful more than NR and it's never given him any problems. He's been on it consistantly since July)_

_*Edit*: I'm not too worried about him eating so little, because I haven't been walking him daily. He hasn't been losing any weight, but he hasn't gained any weight either. He's stayed at 54lbs for a long time. Considering his mix he should be a minimum weight of 70lbs (adult male Weimeraner) to a maximum of 110lbs (adult male Bloodhound). The only thing I'm really worried about is if he is hungry, but not eating. _
Extra edit: I of course mean he should be a minimum ADULT weight of 70lbs. If we was 16lbs underweight he'd be rushed straight to the vet!


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Max was a constant empty tummy vomiter on kibble and stopped once he was put on raw food. He would vomit at least once a week on kibble and on raw it is more like once a year. In his case I suspect carbs and not enough fat were the enemy. His tummy was empty in the early morning and since kibble is low fat his appetite wasn't sated up came the bile. Yuck.

Try giving a little snack before bed or any other time he seems to have trouble with this. I just gave a few normal dog treats but now wonder if something with some fat and protein rather than grainy would have been better. A kong with a little canned dog food, meat scraps, scrambled egg or peanut butter maybe? Since he is used to a high grain food might smear just a 1/2 measuring teaspoon of the fatty stuff with a few kibbles at first, a single small lump of scrambled egg, etc.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

This was an issue for my Bloodhound X as a puppy too. 

What it sounds like to me is that he is throwing up bile. This can be because his stomach is empty. 

Here are my suggestions... 8 cups a day of food is WAY too much! Beneful is also pretty horrible food and you can get a much better quality for the same price. Check out the food forum and websites like dogfoodadvisor. Ozzie is almost 4 years old, gets fed Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream (which is a fish base formula). He gets fed 1.5-2 cups twice a day, and he weighs around 95 pounds. As a puppy I would expect him to be eating a lot, but 8 cups is too much, even of crappy food. Look into foods whose first ingredient is a solid meat (no meal) and has no grains. 

Keep to a strict feeding schedule. Put his food down and give him 10 minutes. If he doesn't eat, he doesn't eat and he can wait until the next meal time. Since he is prone to upset stomach I would suggest feeding him 3 or 4 smaller meals a day, so if he does skip a meal he won't be starving the rest of the day. He will likely be okay with 2 meals a day once he is fully grown.

Start walking him everyday. Preferably before breakfast and dinner. This will stimulate his appetite as well as his bowels. Exercise is the best motivator for the picky dog, IMO. (well, and jealousy but if you don't have another hungry dog handy, this can be tricky) Have him empty his bowels before feeding and wait at least 30 minutes after feeding to exercise. 

Give him something to eat/chew on in his crate when he is left alone.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I'd say if he'd rather vomit up bile than eat the food, the food's not working for him. I'd switch to a better food with more meat content because it will be more palatable in addition to being better for him. If that still doesn't solve the issue, a vet visit is in order.


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

Switch to a better food.

I have worked with a LOT of dogs that hate their Beneful. I think of this food as the equivalent of me living on frozen pizza and Ben & Jerry's every single day. Just no good can come of it.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Agree about the Beneful. I fed it for four 1/2 years. My dogs liked it. But, my one dog did the vomiting routine every now and then. Once I switched food he has not had an episode for over five months now.  If you can switch the food to a better one. I switched to 4Health because it is a 4 star food with good ingredients and in my price range to feed five dogs.


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## acover4422 (Oct 24, 2011)

+two said:


> Keep to a strict feeding schedule. Put his food down and give him 10 minutes.


I have heard that before, but I have to confess I didn't trust the source (it came from someone with a very, very poorly-trained and always-sick dog). I was also worried that, because both Bloodhounds and Weims are prone to bloat/GDV, encouraging him to eat quickly would do more harm than good. You don't have any worries about this, even though you have a Bloodhound mix?

Maybe it is time to come off the Beneful, then. I just bought a big bag tonight (and opened it!) though, poo. I was going by the logic of it if works for him and he's healthy then it doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $500, and Beneful fitted that bill until now. I need to do some research into what to put him on first, so I'll let him finish out that bag. I had a cat in the UK on Science Diet, which is about the best that money can buy, but I've heard rumour that it's not actually a good dog food. Most of those rumours seemed to come from people who were clearly working for Blue Buffalo, though, and BB is far, far above our price range (although we're willing to spend more than we already are). 

I know there are other threads on this site dedicated to which is the best food out there, but just to be specific: the two names I have used and trusted before are Iams and Science Diet. However, these have both been with cats! Does anyone know if it's actually 'true' that Science Diet has about the same filler content as any other food, so it's not worth the extra money? Or is that just some marketing thing spread around by all-meat companies like Blue Buffalo? My (rookie) guess would be that it may have the same filler content but there's more of other stuff in there that's good and less of other stuff that's bad.

FYI, I would be in heaven living on frozen pizza and Ben and Jerry's every day. Just sayin'


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

acover4422 said:


> I have heard that before, but I have to confess I didn't trust the source (it came from someone with a very, very poorly-trained and always-sick dog). I was also worried that, because both Bloodhounds and Weims are prone to bloat/GDV, encouraging him to eat quickly would do more harm than good. You don't have any worries about this, even though you have a Bloodhound mix?
> 
> Maybe it is time to come off the Beneful, then. I just bought a big bag tonight (and opened it!) though, poo. I was going by the logic of it if works for him and he's healthy then it doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $500, and Beneful fitted that bill until now. I need to do some research into what to put him on first, so I'll let him finish out that bag. I had a cat in the UK on Science Diet, which is about the best that money can buy, but I've heard rumour that it's not actually a good dog food. Most of those rumours seemed to come from people who were clearly working for Blue Buffalo, though, and BB is far, far above our price range (although we're willing to spend more than we already are).


Great questions and let me just say that your puppy is gorgeous (and fascinating looking)! 

If your puppy is gulping down food and literally inhaling it, then it is eating too fast. 10 minutes is plenty! Bloat is a concern with any large breed dog but you can minimize the risks by limiting exercise after he eats. Give him an hour to settle his stomach before you do any strenuous exercise. You can also try out a puzzle toy! They are absolutely fantastic tools that help stimulate your puppy and use his brain. There are a lot of products out there, but I have had success with Starmark's Bob-A-Lot and Premier's Kibble Nibble Ball. I hear that the Kong Wobbler is also a good product. If you chose to use a toy to feed meals, you don't have to worry about him eating too fast. Be sure to pick the toy up after he is done or if he loses interest and walks away. You want him to understand that the toy is special and must be interacted with when put down or he doesn't get it at all. 

Oh! and get a raised feeder. This will also help to minimize the risks of bloat as well as take strain off of his neck/shoulders/back while eating and drinking. 

I am not sure what you have against Blue Buffalo...  But thats okay, there are a lot of other brands of quality kibble that you can look into. Like I mentioned, I like Taste of the Wild and it seems to be a very popular brand because it is a lower price point but still offers quality ingredients. Orijen is also popular but a bit more expensive. If you have a Tractor Supply store near you, their 4health brand food is of good quality/value. I guess Costco also has a brand of food that is decent. 

Basically, a lot of dog foods are filled with crap that don't fulfill the nutritional needs of the average canine. Things like corn. If you look at the first ingredient in your dogs food it is important that it is a protein source, such as Salmon, Bison, Chicken, Lamb... grains are not a necessary part in a dogs diet and many dogs do much better on grain free food. 



> I know there are other threads on this site dedicated to which is the best food out there, but just to be specific: the two names I have used and trusted before are Iams and Science Diet. However, these have both been with cats! Does anyone know if it's actually 'true' that Science Diet has about the same filler content as any other food, so it's not worth the extra money? Or is that just some marketing thing spread around by all-meat companies like Blue Buffalo? My (rookie) guess would be that it may have the same filler content but there's more of other stuff in there that's good and less of other stuff that's bad.


With our expanded knowledge of canine nutritional needs you don't need to compromise on having more/less of stuff thats bad. You don't need the bad at all! Let's look at the first three ingredients in a few foods: 

Ol Roy (1 star)
Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, soybean meal

Science Diet Puppy Dry (2 stars)
Ground whole grain corn, chicken by-product meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid)

Iams ProActive Health Smart Puppy (3 stars)
Chicken, corn meal, chicken by-product meal

4health Chicken and Rice (4 stars)
Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley

Blue Buffalo Wilderness (5 stars) 
Deboned duck, chicken meal, potato starch

Taste of the Wild Wetlands Formula (5 stars)
Duck, duck meal, chicken meal

Orijen Large Breed Puppy (5 stars)
Fresh boneless chicken, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon


The vast majority of calories your dog consumes needs to be meat based. 


(I also would be in heaven if I could get away with eating frozen pizza and ice cream every day)


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Agree with the advice above.

I find Beneful to be the grossest of the gross. So much sugar and crap in it. Even feeding Purina One or Pedigree would be a step up from Beneful. Purina One Beyond is not too bad, I think the price is decent, and the ingredients are surprisingly not terrible.

Dog food is always up for debate. My dog who always had a pretty iron stomach and can eat lots of dog foods of different brands without getting an upset tummy ate Beneful once and he got soooo bloated, he threw up, he just felt awful for two days afterwards. No food has ever done that to him. The pretty bag sure makes it seem like it's so much better than it really is.

But yes, as answered, dogs can throw up bile when they are hungry. I wish you luck.  

If you are looking for decent priced food, you could also check out Whole Earth Farms made by Merrick. There was an 8lb bag for like $12 or something at the local store here. I don't entirely trust Merrick and their quality control issues but you're going to find something with almost every company. Taste of the Wild is another price-friendly food... I often find the Royal Canin and Science Diet foods to be WAY more expensive even though they are, IMO, worse quality. 

I've had wonderful luck with Natural Balance lately.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I just wanted to add that at the TSC in my area the 4Health dog food ranges from $27.99 -$34.99 for 35 pound bags depending on the flavors and types such as a high energy one for working dogs. You can get the 20 pound bags for $19.99. They also carry a 4Health small bites. They carry Chicken and Rice and Lamb and Rice. They also have canned food. It is $.99 per can. I sometimes add a little to the kibble for a change in texture for the little dogs.


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## Minka (Nov 29, 2011)

acover4422 said:


> I have heard that before, but I have to confess I didn't trust the source (it came from someone with a very, very poorly-trained and always-sick dog). I was also worried that, because both Bloodhounds and Weims are prone to bloat/GDV, encouraging him to eat quickly would do more harm than good. You don't have any worries about this, even though you have a Bloodhound mix?
> 
> Maybe it is time to come off the Beneful, then. I just bought a big bag tonight (and opened it!) though, poo. I was going by the logic of it if works for him and he's healthy then it doesn't matter if it costs $5 or $500, and Beneful fitted that bill until now. I need to do some research into what to put him on first, so I'll let him finish out that bag. I had a cat in the UK on Science Diet, which is about the best that money can buy, but I've heard rumour that it's not actually a good dog food. Most of those rumours seemed to come from people who were clearly working for Blue Buffalo, though, and BB is far, far above our price range (although we're willing to spend more than we already are).
> 
> ...


Like other said, there are things you can do to keep your dog from eating to fast. As well as the dispensing toys, there are also large weighted objects you can put inside the bowl itself to prevent fast eating. You can either use a large rock or buy one of these from Petsmart.

If you bought the bag at a pet store like Petsmart or Petco, they will take it back even if it's opened. Especially if you tell them your dog hates it so much that he throws up. :nod:

*Most* of the time you get what you pay for. Exceptions are Science Diet. (And no, I don't work for anybody. ) Look at the ingredients on the back yourself. Meat by-products, mass amounts of corn, ingredients that if you look them up are basically the leftover sludge after human food production.. Ick!

I don't buy or recommend either Science Diet OR Iams. What's inside them is just not worth the money. Even Authority is a better bang for your buck. (Petsmart's brand.) Innova, Simply Nourish, Wellness, Natural Balance and Taste of the Wild are all very good choices too.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

I learned awhile back, you don't always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get.

3 times puking in 3 weeks isn't so bad really. If his poop is solid and he doesn't fart much, he's tolerating the food ok.

I switched from pedigree to beneful, trying to get crap that can be picked up on walks and also relieve my puppy's gas; worked fine for a month or so, now I have to find something else. It worked wonders on the other dog, though.

If the dog isn't too skinny or too fat, then he's getting enough to eat, so I wouldn't worry about him going hungry.

A large breed dog, I believe it's best to feed adult food. They take longer to reach full size than small breeds, and accelerated growth isn't really all that desireable. According to sources I find credible; I'm no expert or anything.

Don't worry about the full bag you already bought -- just mix the new food into it, gradually at first until its 100% new food. Then use the rest for training treats.

How's he doing without exercise? He must be experiencing some sort of internal conflict, with the weim half saying "c'mon, let's go" and his bloodhound side saying, "dude, chill!"


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## luvmyboyz (Nov 9, 2011)

As others have said, Beneful is amongst the lowest of quality kibble. Not saying you have to jump to something like Orijen, but Beneful is not a good option, and I'm glad to hear you're willing to switch to something better. Science Diet and Iams are not good quality but they have a high price tag...so those are bad options too.

The feeding schedule is a good idea, even if you're worried about bloat, and here's why (I have a Great Dane, so I'm sympathetic about worrying about bloat). Having a feeding schedule allows you to be aware exactly when your dog is eating, in case of an emergency this would be critical information the vet would need. Having a feeding schedule often fixes "picky eaters" or dogs that don't like to eat, it tells them "eat when you're food is down, because I'm going to take away what you don't eat then you'll be hungry". I have a Golden Retriever who was a very picky eater, and never ate all his food when I free fed him, then when I got my Great Dane pup, I put them both on a feeding schedule, and my Retriever eats every last bit now, therefore I can control exactly how much he is eating, I can reduce, or increase the amounts he eats, because whatever I put down, he eats it all. ALSO with a feeding schedule you can allow for that 1hr before and after of rest, while if you're free feeding you wouldn't know when to reduce activity (a full stomach + running around = increased chance of bloat).

Oh and there is much debate about the raised dish reducing the chance of bloat. I've had 2 vets tell me that a raised dish increases the chance of bloat, and many Dane owners who swear it doesn't...but there are now studies that are saying it doesn't affect the chance of bloat at all? So I'm not sure on that one. Trooper (my Golden Retriever) lays down to eat, because it must strain his neck, so I can only imagine Gus (Great Dane) will need a raised dish just to REACH his dish.

Good luck! You've got some great advice here


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## Red Fraggle (Nov 23, 2011)

When you get a high quality food, your dog will tend to eat less of it, so it's not as expensive as you think. Add the savings on vet bills due to mystery illness and you've actually saved money by buying better food. 

A couple other general tips on saving money but still affording high quality food: 

-Try to make sure you set aside enough to buy the biggest bag. The savings on buying the 30lb bag instead of several 5lb bags can save you about $30 on an equivalent amount of food (Based on Canadian prices for high quality foods- Feel free to take a look and compare for prices wherever you are).
-Skip the wet food, it's way more expensive and not great for their teeth. (I know you didn't mention wet food, but I see a lot of people claiming they can't afford high-quality food, then feeding a primarily wet-food diet from the grocery store)
-Check out http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ and look up any brands you're interested in. Not only do they give you a rating system, but they break down every ingredient in the food and highlight anything controversial and explain what's wrong with it and how much you need to worry about it. If you find something less expensive and it checks out as a 4 or 5 star on there, you're probably making a good choice.

One thing I've noticed with scheduled feeding over free-feeding is that some dogs in multi-dog households will tend to gulp their food down if they're being fed next to an other dog that might steal their food if they stop to chew it. If your dog is already a picky eater and doesn't have an other dog to compete with, a schedule is probably a good idea.

Protein takes longer to digest than garbage (empty carbs), so a diet with more meat in it will probably help with the empty-stomach vomiting. Good luck


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Izze does this, I feed my dogs once a day but I give Izze a little "snack" (about a quarter cup wih a couple of biscuits in the AM, she doesn't really have much of an appetite in the morning) if I forget, nine times out of ten she will puke up bile.

What food are you feeding him? Sometimes when dogs have an issue with an ingredient in their kibble (weather it be allergies or the fact that they just don't like it) www.dogfoodadvisor.com is a great site for do research on foods.


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## luvmyboyz (Nov 9, 2011)

Red Fraggle said:


> One thing I've noticed with scheduled feeding over free-feeding is that some dogs in multi-dog households will tend to gulp their food down if they're being fed next to an other dog that might steal their food if they stop to chew it. If your dog is already a picky eater and doesn't have an other dog to compete with, a schedule is probably a good idea.


This is true. Gus used to gulp his food (in competition with Trooper, it's like they raced to eat), but for whatever reason, he stopped, and now he takes all the time he needs to chew his food...but if "inhaling food" is a problem, I don't think that's a reason to free-feed, you need something to slow him down, like one of those toys that dispenses a little bit of food at a time, or one of those big heavy silver (or whatever color) balls that you put in their dish, they eat around it, and it slows down the process. I've never used these myself, but I've heard wonderful things about success with these tools.


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## Red Fraggle (Nov 23, 2011)

Yeah, I didn't really mean it's a reason to free-feed. I was more saying that if the OP doesn't have an other dog in the house to compete with and is already a picky dog, there's not that much risk that the dog will start gulping just because it's on a schedule.

Free-feeding can work great for some dogs, but they're in the minority.


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## luvmyboyz (Nov 9, 2011)

Red Fraggle said:


> Yeah, I didn't really mean it's a reason to free-feed. I was more saying that if the OP doesn't have an other dog in the house to compete with and is already a picky dog, there's not that much risk that the dog will start gulping just because it's on a schedule.
> 
> Free-feeding can work great for some dogs, but they're in the minority.


My mistake  Thanks for the clarification


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## acover4422 (Oct 24, 2011)

DustyCrockett said:


> He must be experiencing some sort of internal conflict, with the weim half saying "c'mon, let's go" and his bloodhound side saying, "dude, chill!"


You have it SPOT ON. He will be sleeping on the couch and then all of a sudden he'll jump down, and without so much as taking a second to properly wake up he'll sprint around the coffee table for about five minutes, then curl up and go back to sleep again! I've never seen anything like it. The dog's a nutter! We play with him constantly throughout the day, so he's probably getting about 45 minutes of running-around time each day. The trouble is that where we are there's only one real walking route, and it's an hour long. I still feel like that's a bit too much for him, but he gets walked at least once a week and we have him run around like crazy after his donkey/pumpkin/blanket/squirrel all day long.

I'm definitely going to stop free-freeding him. We don't have another dog, so he wouldn't rush to eat before the other dog took his food or anything like that. We also have one of those PetSmart balls in his food so he has to eat slower. I was really worried about bloat, but it seems others were too; and never had a problem.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Actually, Izze just puked about .... An hour or so, I think she ate too much poo from the manure pile (we live at a horse farm ) dogs puke ..... A lot, sometimes, because I have read that whenever dogs have even the slightest upset will make them toss


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## luvmyboyz (Nov 9, 2011)

acover4422 said:


> I was really worried about bloat, but it seems others were too; and never had a problem.


Don't get me wrong...I worry about bloat, but the fact is...it may happen, it may not. The only precautions I know of are to feed a good quality kibble (some kibble expands in the stomach...that's bad news for "bloat prone" dogs), to not allow fast eating, not allow "too much" water before and after meals, and not to allow excessive gulping of water at any time, feed 3 meals a day instead of 1, and definitely allow the 1hr rest period before and after meals. There's a procedure called "Gastropexy" that your vet can do (find a qualified vet of coarse), they tack the stomach to the muscle on the side of the ribs, and this prevents the "torsion" part of bloat from occuring (the twisting of the stomach causes "bloat" to quickly become lethal), but even with Gastropexy, bloat can still occur, it just gives you more time to get your dog to the vet...without this procedure the stomach can twist, giving your dog only minutes-hours to live . Also know the emergency procedure through your vet, where to bring your dog incase of bloat in the middle of the night kinda thing. Doing all this stuff, bloat can still happen, so do what you can and try to not worry, because you can make yourself sick worrying.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

But bloat can happen to any breed, can it not? I know some breeds are more prone then others, but all dogs can get it, right?


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## MaddiesMom (Nov 8, 2007)

Both of our dogs will do the puke up bile thing too. Usually in the morning before they get their breakfast. They will just bolt up and out of the bed and puke (of course it is always on the carpet - never on the vinyl floor which is just a few inches away!)

I asked the vet about it and he said it is because they are hungry and the smell of food can trigger it. He said even the smell from the garbage can could trigger it - because there is discarded food in it. so, I try to keep the garbage can as empty as I can and I also keep them on a pretty tight schedual for feeding too.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Don't they also make a special bowl with raised "spikes" they the dog has to eat around? I don't know of this helps but I have heard that moistening food also helps with expansion in the stomach.


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## luvmyboyz (Nov 9, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Don't they also make a special bowl with raised "spikes" they the dog has to eat around? I don't know of this helps but I have heard that moistening food also helps with expansion in the stomach.


They do make bowls like that with raised "spikes"...those work well too from what I've heard 



dogdragoness said:


> But bloat can happen to any breed, can it not? I know some breeds are more prone then others, but all dogs can get it, right?


Bloat can happen to any breed, it's quite rare with small breeds, and very common in deep chested breeds.


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