# Hill's Prescription L/D Canned Dog Food



## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Okay, so my dog was at the emergency vet for about 4 nights because of an obstruction in his small intesting which was affectively removed. After he was diagnosed with Cholestasis which you can read about here: http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/digestive/c_dg_bile_duct_obstruction.
Basically he had sludge in his gallbladder and they put him on meds to get it out. His liver enzymes went up which is common because gallbladder problems usually always affect the liver badly. The sludge is now out of his gallbladder but his liver enzymes continued to go up which the vet assured me is because the sludge is now moving through his liver. He's on about 5 diff meds. Some for the gallbladder inflammation, some for his liver, and on top of all that another one bcause of some tick born disease called Anaplasmosis that just showed up like in the past two years(really hate those damn ticks, even changed his tick med to a better one recently). 

Anyways my reason for posting is because they put him on a special diet which is the title of this post...Hill's L/D and it sucks. He hates it. I have to practically shove it down his throat. It's canned food and he usually gets dry so I thought I would get that for him...
It only comes it a 16pd bag apparently. My dog is 16 pds, WTF is he going to do wit a 16 pd bag?! It's ridiculious. 

On top of that Hill's is a horrible brand and it's a horrible food: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/hills-prescription-diet-ld-canned/

They tell me I can't give him anything different but I'm not stupid, I know vets don't know crap about dog nutrition and they have deals with these type of companies. But I also don't know what is appropriate to feed a dog who's liver needs special food. So I'm at a loss here. 

So my question is, what would you do if you were in my place and you had to feed your dog this CRAP?

Oh almost forgot "And lastly, this Hill’s Prescription Diet recipe contains menadione, a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells"(quoted from above article). SO something in the food is linked to liver toxicity yet it's supposed to help his liver...WTH is with that. It's really ridiculious.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I see the prescription diets being more like medicine. . .even if the ingredients may not be the best, sometimes they're necessary. But even the best diet is no good if the dog won't eat it. Talk to your vet about alternatives. Maybe your dog will like the Royal Canin or Purina prescription diet better. Or maybe he can explain what ingredients to avoid in a non-prescription food.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

I completely understand the need for a special food but when one of the ingrediants is linked to liver toxicity, my dog won't eat it, and it's made by a crappy food company it's kind of concerning. I didn't even know other brands made prescription diets. I've been dealing with the emergeny vet because they're the ones that have been taking care of him through all this but now that he is home I'm def going to have to call up my vet and talk to him about switching. They didn't even mention another brand, I called last night to tell them he wouldn't it and I was basically told that he doesn't have a choice and to force feed him and if I need to I could come pick up a syringe to feed him with. Absolutely rediculious. Thank you telling me bout those though, I'll def have to look into it and have a talk with my vet.


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## blues327 (May 2, 2011)

Maybe look into Wysong RX diets or Rayne Clinical nutrition diets? The ingredients of these RX foods might be better than the SD and RC RX foods. I wonder if another option could be making an appointment with a pet nutritionist to figure out an alternative home cooked diet, maybe discuss this option with your vet.


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## TTs Towel (May 22, 2012)

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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

The Dog Food Advisor may not have credentials but she certainly knows her stuff...


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## Muppet (May 10, 2012)

I am pretty picky when it comes to my dog's diet, but the Hills prescription food (w/d and l/d) have literally saved 2 of my dog's lives. I tried some home recipes for my last dog before using the Hills, and in hindsight I wish I just started the L/D as soon as the doctor recommended it. However, my dogs always loved the Hills. Maybe talk to your vet about adding boiled chicken and rice to the food to entice him.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Muppet said:


> I am pretty picky when it comes to my dog's diet, but the Hills prescription food (w/d and l/d) have literally saved 2 of my dog's lives. I tried some home recipes for my last dog before using the Hills, and in hindsight I wish I just started the L/D as soon as the doctor recommended it. However, my dogs always loved the Hills. Maybe talk to your vet about adding boiled chicken and rice to the food to entice him.



How do you know it saved your dogs? I am curious, because i am sure you were treating your dogs with more than just food. 

To the OP, essentially that food is water, rice and egg product (wth? why not use regular eggs?) It's true that your vet probably knows nothing about nutrition and I strongly disagree with the poster above who states you shouldn't expect it. YOU SHOULD EXPECT IT, especially if your DVM is suggesting a diet for your dog. I don't trust people blindly, especially someone who suggests SD.  IMO, you should go to the website for Holistic vets and find a vet who will take phone consults. A holistic vet takes nutrition into consideration and would be prepared to answer nutrition questions. Here is the list I generated from the AHVMA:

Karin Derfuss , DVM CVA, IVAS
Branchburg Animal Hospital
1167 Route 28
Branchburg , NJ 08876
Phone: 908-707-0045
Fax: 908-725-1020
Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference)
AC AC(IVAS) CH CM
Practice Preferences:
SMALL ANIMAL
[email protected]

KARIN JOHANSON , DVM
THREE RIVERS HOLISTIC VETERINARY SERVICES
80 MAIN STREET
MADISON , NJ 07940
Phone: 973-295-6454
Fax: 973-295-6453
Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference)
AC AC(CHI) CN CM NU WH
Practice Preferences:
SMALL ANIMAL HOUSE CALLS
www.njholisticvet.com

CHARLES SCHENCK , DVM
HARLINGEN VETERINARY CLINIC
10 Sunset Road
Belle Mead , NJ 08502
Phone: 908-359-2000
Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference)
AC AC(IVAS) AK NAET EXTRACORPOREAL SHOCK WAVE THERAPY, ENDOCRINE IMMUNE BALANCE THERAPY
Practice Preferences:
SMALL ANIMAL

CHARLES SCHENCK Second Office
VCA Edgebrook Animal Hosp
777 Helmetta Blvd.
East Brunswick , NJ 08816
Phone: 732-257-8882
Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference)
AC AC(IVAS) AK NAET EXTRACORPOREAL SHOCK WAVE THERAPY, ENDOCRINE IMMUNE BALANCE THERAPY
Practice Preferences:
SMALL ANIMAL

I know someone who was having serious issues with their dogs liver and the dog was put on a Egg and Green Vegetable diet. Not that it's the same issue as yours, but that was what her holistic vet suggested. 

Good Luck!


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## TTs Towel (May 22, 2012)

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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

TTs Towel said:


> Anyone off the street can make the same claims. HE is just a self proclaimed expert.


You're right, they can, because people are actually realizing what goes into dog food. DogFoodAdvisor is a legitimate way for people to get started on the route to feeding their pet better. You can bad mouth all you want, but it has helped MANY pets. I'm not sure what you think your posts are contributing aside from just whining.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

TTs Towel said:


> Anyone off the street can make the same claims. HE is just a self proclaimed expert.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you expect your general, family practitioner to be an expert in nutrition??


If he is suggesting I change my diet, then yes I do.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

TTs Towel said:


> However, I do find it kind of funny when people will automatically dismiss something their vet says and then take advice from complete strangers on the internet (most of whom are probably not even old enough to have graduated from college) or a human dentist (yes, that's the dog food advisor).


I find it kind of funny when complete strangers on the internet (who may or may not be old enough to have graduated from college) poke fun of the dog food analysis guy when he doesn't even make any definitive claims about anything. He refuses the hand out specific advice, always advising that posters contact their veterinarian with specific questions. So mainly his site functions as a food database. Do we need special degrees now to go out and compile information already available to the public? I seriously don't give a crap what kind of education he has.



TTs Towel said:


> Anyone off the street can make the same claims. HE is just a self proclaimed expert.


Please provide links for where he claims to be an expert. xD



Mike Sagman of Dog Food Advisor said:


> Hi, my name is Mike Sagman. And as the editor and creator of the Dog Food Advisor, I think it’s important for you to know a little about my background.
> 
> I’m a graduate of the Medical College of Virginia with a doctoral degree in dental surgery.
> And my college training includes a major in chemistry and a minor in biology.
> ...


Self proclaimed "expert" for sure. ;p http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/about/


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## Muppet (May 10, 2012)

Mheath0429 said:


> How do you know it saved your dogs? I am curious, because i am sure you were treating your dogs with more than just food.


The dog I grew up with (who is now 18!) has bad IBD. After some really scary bloody poops and throw-up sessions with dramatic weight loss, W/D was prescribed and it was the only thing gentle enough for his system.

Right after I adopted my last dog, he had some kind of stomach thing that we just could not get rid of. He had been transferred from another shelter earlier in the week, so his diet (and life) had been abruptly switched twice. On top of everything, he had kennel cough so his immune system was not the best. He was weak and refused to eat. He went on an IV and was given antibiotics, but still refused to eat. We tried boiled fish, rice and chicken, probiotics, but just wouldn't eat - as soon as we put the L/D in front of him, he scarfed it down.


I understand the reluctance about feeding your dog Hills, I felt the same way. I am not saying it is a miracle food- it just ended up being the thing that helped both of my dogs.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Muppet said:


> I understand the reluctance about feeding your dog Hills, I felt the same way. I am not saying it is a miracle food- it just ended up being the thing that helped both of my dogs.


Same here. Been feeding hills z/d since 2008 and she is doing better than ever. The 2.5 years before that she had repeated bloody stools, vomiting, anorexia, lethargy, etc. I lost track of all the food trials we did. We tried all the "good" foods. The ones people on a DF wouldn't sneer at. None worked. She would eat them for a few weeks and then get sick again. It was miserable. $500 trips to the vets every month or two plus meds and lots of misery.

I've toyed with the idea of trying to get her back on a regular food again, but I remember those times and decide to stick with the Hills. My vet agrees. And for the record, she doesn't make any money off the Hills because we buy it at a vet closer to our house. In the end, you feed what works and ignore well-meaning advice you might get on an internet forum.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Muppet said:


> The dog I grew up with (who is now 18!) has bad IBD. After some really scary bloody poops and throw-up sessions with dramatic weight loss, W/D was prescribed and it was the only thing gentle enough for his system.
> 
> Right after I adopted my last dog, he had some kind of stomach thing that we just could not get rid of. He had been transferred from another shelter earlier in the week, so his diet (and life) had been abruptly switched twice. On top of everything, he had kennel cough so his immune system was not the best. He was weak and refused to eat. He went on an IV and was given antibiotics, but still refused to eat. We tried boiled fish, rice and chicken, probiotics, but just wouldn't eat - as soon as we put the L/D in front of him, he scarfed it down.
> 
> ...



I don't want you to think I was being rude. I was just asking


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## Muppet (May 10, 2012)

No worries at all! 

For me, dog food has been one of the biggest stresses in pet ownership. The first time I went to buy food, I was lectured sternly about the petfood industry. Since then, I have heard so many strong opinions about food to the point where I get nervous telling people what I feed my dog (which happens to be a 5 star food) I am glad that we know more about dog nutrition, but people tend to see food as black and white; good and evil. When Hills gets brought up, I am glad to share my experience. When my dog was weak and sick, all I could think of was "Hills is crap, good pet owners would not feed this...." If nothing else, I just do not think it needs to be vilified. 

My dog, on the other hand, is not worried about any of this. She is happy eating butterflies and sticks.


xoxluvablexox - I am not sure in your case if the prescription food would be helpful. I just wanted to let you know that I had a good experience.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Thank you everyone for the replies, you've all been very helpfull. I should be ordering Pepper some Royal Canin hepatic LS this monday and getting it this wednesday and untill then am feeding him cooked noodles and boiled potatoes. He's obviously starving since his begging for food has gotten horrible and he just ate ash out of our fireplace which thankfully he completely threw up and the vet said is like the equivalent of them given him charcoal at the vet. Apparently dogs do this when they are malnurished. So it's nice to know that some people's do great on this crap but at this point my dog is starving himself and eating dirt off the floor instead of this miracle food. Not saying it doesn't work for people and I'm glad it may have saved your dog and he's doing well on it. I just pray to god my dog actually eats the dry food because he's used to getting it over wet food. Then again he's also used to getting cooked chicken, olive oil, and other yummy stuff in with it. Makes me regret feeding him good food throughout his life.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

TTs Towel said:


> I'm sure most general practice vets aren't experts in nutrition. They're not supposed to be. Thats when you pay the $$ for a veterinary nutritional specialist.
> 
> However, I do find it kind of funny when people will automatically dismiss something their vet says and then take advice from complete strangers on the internet (most of whom are probably not even old enough to have graduated from college) or a human dentist (yes, that's the dog food advisor).


^This!! 
Op, you said that "vets don't know crap about nutrition" which actually means that vets know something. Double negatives kill me.

Rx diets have their place and while they may have inferior ingredients they serve a purpose and have helped a lot of pets such as. ats .with chronic urinary obstruction for example. Vets don't spend 7 years in school and tons of money to not know what a sick dog should be fed. While they may not know about some of the specific ingredients, they know why the diet works. I'm not saying that they are the end all of foods but you'd be better to research what nutrients and what levels of nutrients that compromised liver requires. Then you can take your knowledge and find a food that meets these requirements. You can also look at making your dog'a food. The rx foods are not formulated based on what is in it per se but what results the end product evokes. Vets aren't nutritionists no so find a board certified veterinary nutritionist who can find a suitable diet for your dog. Good luck.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

That's not a double negative... Vets know so little, they do not even know crap.


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## TTs Towel (May 22, 2012)

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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

TTs Towel said:


> Doesn't make any definitive claims? He says "However, I am considered an authority on reading and interpreting pet food labels." Seems like quite a claim to me...
> 
> You've already provided the quote so no need for me to provide the link.
> 
> ...



He reads labels, which most people didn't even know how to do before him, at least he teaches people that. 

I'm still trying to figure out how you could possibly know more? Why don't you enlighten us with your supreme intelligence?


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

This is my own experience with the prescription diets ...

I had to feed my fatally ill dog Hills S/D. I believe it bought him some time. This is in my own unprofessional opinion also ... but here is why I say this ....

The S/D was for Struvite stones that showed up on x-rays when he first became ill. Little did I know what else was going on .... and I firmly believe the low fat contents of the S/D kept his disease on the back burner for a few months ... from January of this year until I had to have him euthanized on March 19th .... the low fat in the S/D kept his pancreatic attacks under control ... but his pancreas had already began to dissolve itself and his other organs ... it was too late to save him.

Before I realized what I had been feeding my dogs ... the DFA (www.DogFoodAdvisor.com) brought to my attention that some of the ingredients in some foods were a risk for certain diseases ... such as ethoxyquin ...(another site) http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/Ethoxyquin.htm

My dog ... even if he had been predisposed to his disease due to breed mix ... I am sure the ethoxyquin he had been eating for 5 years didn't help the huge mass in his stomach ... which the surgeon stated to be a cancerous mass that had enlarged suddenly ... or his pancreas from eating itself. The number levels in all of his many his blood tests were beyond the imagination ... Although I cannot prove any of this ... I can surely speculate ... 

I wish I had known of these ingredients much sooner. Professional or no ... I am glad the DFA enlightened me to some of these ingredients. It made me more inclined to do research before choosing other foods.

My dogs no longer eat anything that I have not thoroughly researched first. I am all for researching the prescription diets also. IMHO ... if you believe it is going to aggravate an already known underlying health issue ... I would also search for something better. There is more than just one path down the road.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

TTs Towel said:


> Doesn't make any definitive claims? He says "However, I am considered an authority on reading and interpreting pet food labels." Seems like quite a claim to me...
> 
> You've already provided the quote so no need for me to provide the link.
> 
> ...


That's such an extreme comparison I actually find it kind of stupid. Since every person with a valid opinion or useful information to provide must first get their PhD in that subject, please, let us all know what your education is.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Kayota said:


> That's not a double negative... Vets know so little, they do not even know crap.
> 
> 
> > Well isn't that a statement. That phrase is still a double negative and it would be better to say 'vets don't know anything about nutritionist." Or "vets know nothing about nutrition".


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

flipgirl said:


> ^This!!
> Op, you said that "vets don't know crap about nutrition" which actually means that vets know something. Double negatives kill me.


Actually it's not. Let me put it in proper terms. Vet's don't know "anything" about nutrition. OKay so again tell me where the double negative is. Maybe if I said something like "vet's don't not know crap about nutrition" you would be correct but this time you're mistaken. Nice try though .


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

TTs Towel said:


> Doesn't make any definitive claims? He says "However, I am considered an authority on reading and interpreting pet food labels." Seems like quite a claim to me...
> 
> You've already provided the quote so no need for me to provide the link.
> 
> ...


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what is good for a dog to eat. They're carnivors so they eat meat. Not corn or grain or by-products. So instead of us having to research every food and every ingredient we can go to websites like dogfoodadvisor and see what's the highest rated and study the ingredients in those foods and use that to make our own decisions about what to feed our dogs. It's not following blindly, it's just knowing how to do proper research without wasting hours of our day studying every brand of dog food ourselves.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Okay just wanted to post this for anyone that needs help with their dogs liver problems. After doing some more research I found a liver diet online: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/liver_diet.htm and I will be talking to my vet about feeding my dog this food. I found on another dogforum that someone had a dog with sever liver failure who fed this to their dog and they got 100% better. On that same post another person mentioned their 17 year old dog with liver problems was put on this diet and it helped that dog live another 2 years. So I know this is def what I went to feed my dog rather then the dog food the vet originally recommended. I'm also looking into working with a nutritionalist named Monica Segal: http://www.monicasegal.com/ if this diet doesn't seem to help much. Again, on the other forum people were praising her for the work she did to help her dogs and with the testimonials I read I feel like she would be a good choice if I decide to go that ruite. Anyways, again thank you everyone to responding to my post. If I seemed rude I'm sorry, I'm just extremely emotional and stressed about the whole situation and being told that I was pretty much an idiot by some people because I didn't want to listen to my vet's recommondation on food just set me over the edge. And again, I understand the food mught have helped some dogs but I just don't feel right feeding it to my dog and I have to listen to what my heart( with my vet's permission ofcourse) says and try out this miracle liver diet I've been reading about. I'm hoping that with the diet and medicine his liver will improve greatly.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

xoxluvablexox said:


> Actually it's not. Let me put it in proper terms. Vet's don't know "anything" about nutrition. OKay so again tell me where the double negative is. Maybe if I said something like "vet's don't not know crap about nutrition" you would be correct but this time you're mistaken. Nice try though .


Let me repeat: your original statement was "vets don't know crap about nutrition". "Knowing crap" is equivalent to "knowing nothing" so if we were to substitute the word "nothing" for ;"crap" then your statement would.be "vets don't know nothing about nutrition" which is really is a double negative and confusing. How about just saying "vets don't know anything about nutrition" and be definitive instead of using slang like 'crap'? 

Ok let's get back to the real discussion here....


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

And let me repeat by crap I meant anything not nothing. I didn't know that the definition of crap meant "nothing" I thought it could mean whatever it needed to mean within the contex of the sentence and in that sentence I meant for it to mean "anything". Sorry for the mistake. 


Anyways, talked to the vet and she approved of the new diet. It's a mixture of potatoes and veggies with a low fat white fish like Haddock or Cod and is supposed to be really good for cleansing the liver. White fish actually has something in it that heals the liver. So I'm praying that after a week on the new diet when he gets his next blood test all the enzyme levels will go down.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

xoxluvablexox said:


> And let me repeat by crap I meant anything not nothing. I didn't know that the definition of crap meant "nothing" I thought it could mean whatever it needed to mean within the contex of the sentence and in that sentence I meant for it to mean "anything". Sorry for the mistake.
> 
> 
> Anyways, talked to the vet and she approved of the new diet. It's a mixture of potatoes and veggies with a low fat white fish like Haddock or Cod and is supposed to be really good for cleansing the liver. White fish actually has something in it that heals the liver. So I'm praying that after a week on the new diet when he gets his next blood test all the enzyme levels will go down.


Just be very careful with levels of mercury - whatever whitefish you feed, be sure it is Mercury Free and good luck


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Ofcourse. That's the good things about white fish. They store pretty much all the toxins, including mercury, that their bodies obsorb in there livers rather then the part of the fish you actually eat. So compared to other fish there's less of a chance of it containing mercury. Most important thing is to try and get the fish from the USA and if you can't find that atleast get it anywhere but from China or Taiwan. Also farm raised is best as well, better protected from pollutants.

I'm planning on making another post in the health section about everything I did to help fix my dogs liver because it's really almost a miracle how well he is doing right now. His ALKP level was up in the 4000s. Which according to my vet meant that he was suffering from severe liver failure and had like no chance of making in. His ALT was in the 1000s. That was two weeks ago. 

Now his ALKP is down to 600 and the ALT is at 106. The vet tech literraly came out and gave me and my BF a high five which the vet told her to do because she was so pleased and happy with the results... For both the normal levels are supposed to be at the max 100. I'm so happy and so thankfull for all the information I found online and for sticking to my gut and feeding him this special liver healing food. I swear this has been the hardest and scariest experience and I'm just sooo happy that it's almost all over. Another week of meds and fluids and another blood test and then it should be all good. So I'll be writing that post by next week because I think it would be really helpfull for people going through a similiar experience. Ofcourse I don't think in most cases the ALKP levels would ever really get that high but I found on another webpage where you can talk to vets over the computer, the vet there had said the highest levels he had seen were between 4000-5000 and that was a dog with gallbladder problems which was the same thing my dog went through. So in my case I was treating the gallbladder and the liver together.


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