# Anyone cured a CAT obsessed dog? and how?



## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

*Anyone cured a CAT obsessed dog? UPDATE # 31 trainer visited!*

I've been told to cure the dog I need to go Pavlov. Control the access to the cat, and allow the dog to view the cat many times during the day but for very short intervals. And feed a very high value treat to the dog while she looks at the cat.

Trainer suggested this could take a month, or more.

Has anyone had success with this? I'd love to hear some success stories.

Cat is a rescue stray, very salty and views dogs as predators, she does not want to play with the dog at all. 

When my standard schnauzer came to us at 3.5 mo she was instantly obsessed with the cat. Wanted to find the cat, be with the cat all day long. Jumps up and bark at it,. mouth it, or sit quivering all over looking at the cat.

So we seperated the 2 and kept the cat on the 2nd floor and baby gated the stairs. Cat shredded the furniture in the room so was demoted tot he laundry room. Dog goes berserk when we go inside that room. Now that it is warmer we are letting the cat outside for the day, and bringing her in at night. Dog is always inside or outside on a leash. 

The dog also has excitement incontenence. So the dog empties her entire bladder when hyper aroused. I came home the other day I found a room full of dog pee splattered liberally about the room and rug. The cat had been sitting outside on the deck, in full view of the dog. Dog is now 9mo.

I ended up buying laminated paper (dry erase board stuff from Michaels) and covering up the bottom 3 feet of the 2 sliding glass doors and the bottom of the window and door in that room. That room is the only room in the house that I can leave the dog in. I can crate her, but if she sees the cat she will empty her bladder in the crate. Then I have a wet dog, wet crate bedding to clean up. hence the use of the room. (has happened before)


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

You have more than one problem here with a dog that pee's like this when excited (or fearful?). 

First you need a solid solid SOLID set of commands on the dog. This means consistant requirement that you give a cue ONE TIME and then the dog obeys that cue no matter what until you release the dog with a release word OR give the dog a different cue. This means Lie down means Lie down until the dog dies or you give the dog another cue or release. Sart with a few seconds and work up for duration. 

Solid means any time any where and you really have to work at this. 

Your dog also needs a lesson in self control. At the top of the training forum there is a stickie on Doggy Zen. Do that. Daily. 

Work too on NILIF.. Nothing In Life is Free. Dog cannot get what he wants w/o doing what you ask first (dog must sit before getting in the car.. or lie down before eating dinner etc.). 

With the cat, you need to get between the dog and the cat and lean over the dog and into the dogs space and cha cha quickly INTO the dog's space and get the dog to back up. When you do this say, "MY Cat." Dog will not understand the words but YOU will and it reminds you what you are telling the dog... The cat is yours and not hers and she is not to touch the cat. Period.

Enforce this all the time. Every time. Leash the dog if need be to enforce this. 

I get the impression this dog may not be getting adequate exercise. He should be walked daily for at least a half hour in the morning and an hour at night and have at least two 15 minute training sessions per day. Tired dogs are good dogs. 

As to the crate.. I suggest a DVD called "Crate Games" from www.dogwise.com which can show you ways to make dht crate more interesting. If the crate is open wire, it likely would work better if it were enclosed plastic with only a door in front. If the crate is then covered with a towel or sheet so the dog cannot see out, he may be much more calm in the crate.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

The treats, BTW are also a good idea.. to relate good things with the cat being present. However, you need to get the dog to focus on you if the cat is present.. and that is more work. 

This can take a long time. 

Honestly, as much as my dog and cats like each other I never trust the dog alone with the cats. I have one cat that sleeps with the dog and they have quite a bond.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks for the info Elana;

yes the dog needs more exercise. Just came off a 2 week chill out period to recover from a spay surgery. I am working loose leash walking and spend the majority of the time standing like a tree waiting for the dog to look at me. I guess I should go to the 180 reversal route, but honastely I feel like I am hauling the dog around. I did teach the dog off leash to turn at my side. But it's not a proofed behavior. as is she does it well inside the house, outside with No distraction, but add the distraction and it becomes person pulling the dog into a 180 turn. In other words, b/c the dog pulls i spend most of our walking time training LLW and NOT exercising the dog. We do doggie daycare, but this month only 1x. Next month hopefully 6x. 

WIll check out the Doggy Zen stickie when have time this eve.

Been living with NILIF for months now, do like it and feel that it helps.

Ok the whole "My Cat" and body blocking just doesn't work. At all. I've done this when she was 4mo and recently when she was 8mo. I get nowhere with this. If anything it just freaks the dog out more and makes her 100% convinced that the cat is in fact something to be afraid of. 

Honastly I think this might be fear based behavior. Wouldn't a rapid heart rate, panting, whining, trembling be stress behaviors? 

The training and commands, we've always working on it daily. We've gone to and gotten great help from puppy classes, basic obedience and intermediate obedience. I can get a sit stay at the food bowl for only 30 sec (working on extending it longer) and sit stays on the open door threshold at the cat room while I go out of sight, around the corner to load and unload laundry machines. She's amazing good on the cat sit stay. But I work it alot. We start intro agility next week. AM reading Control Unleashed now. If agility turns out to be a mistake I'll back out and take a different class with this instructor, like another basic obed. I like to keep taking classes with this inst. Keeps me doing my homework. Plus she is +R trainer and will come to my house to help if need be.

Crate games; dog loves her crate. I have no problems with the crate. I do cover the crate she has in the breakfast room, aka the dog room. The crate in the bedroom is a plastic airline approved one.

She Goes inside during the day to nap. At night goes inside to sleep. After the spay I could no longer use the crate due to the e-collar. So she slept outside on a mat. Now that we are e-collar free she sleeps inside the crate but I leave the door open. She stays inside all night long unless she hears a noise (hubby works late) outside the room in the hallway. Then she goes back inside the crate.

The this cat is mine type of game seems to be a bit dominance based. I don't think I'd get anywhere with this dog with that. It really has to be operant conditioning with her. She retains is she is the one making the decisions. 

NRB


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

OK. So the dog is reacting to the cat this way out of FEAR? But you were saying she mouthed etc. (or wanted to mouth) the cat? If this is fear based, the "My Cat" thing is not what will work. Desensitizing her to the cat is the better method (as suggested by your trainer.. and he has SEEN THE DOG so knows the dog better than anyone can on an internet forum). 

From what you have said here it sounds like your dog has a focus issue. This is an issue she will have her entire life. It is the issue of you wanting her attention with all that GREAT STUFF in the environment wanting her attention too. 

Have you taught her a focus word? If not, this is where you start. Use a clicker or YES when she looks at you. If you can spit the food at her so it comes from your mouth and she catches it, that would be ideal (albeit disgusting sounding). 

Start with saying YES and immediately spitting food at her every time she looks at you. Start in the house. when she is looking at you reliably add a word. I am not original.. I use the word "Attention!" and others use "watch" or "look" etc. When she is looking at you reliably in the house when you say "attention!" start to build on duration. 

Now.. move outside and do this some more. And keep at it. The rest of the dog's life. Oh yeah.. Not easy. 

When walking your dog is she pulling because she is afraid of things (and wanting to leave) or is she sniffing and pulling to get at things? If it is the latter, play the Crazy Owner game. As she gets near the end of the leash, change direction. This can be 180 degrees or 90 degrees. You have to be quick.. and you have to chang direction quickly.. always watching the dog as she races ahead of you (or anywhere) and starts to get to the end of the leash. Produce a quick tug on the leash NOT a steady pull. when she looks at you (and if you are crazy enough with your direction changes she WILL look at you as if th say, "Are you completely CRACKERS?") say YES and spit food or feed her. 

Again.. consistancy is the name of the game. 

I think you said your dog is 9 months old (or close to it) and she may be going thru her "fear phase" during which you want to introduce her to new things so the fear is down played. Food is a great way to over ride fear if the fear is not too great. 

What are you using for treats? Hot dogs.. or spam.. or string cheese. 1/2 dime size treats. It is not the quantity of the treat that gets their attention.. it is the quality of the treat. Tiny bits of steak get a dog to notice much better than giant milk bones. 

have yu looked at the Ian dunbar site? There is a link to it (sticky on dog training thread). Also take a look at this site: www.clickertraining.com.

There is a thread on here called "the Fearful dog thread" you may find beneficial.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

NRB said:


> Honastly I think this might be fear based behavior. Wouldn't a rapid heart rate, panting, whining, trembling be stress behaviors?


How does the dog act when the cat is in the same room unleashed? I read your above post that said the dog is obsessed with the cat and wants to be with the cat all day.

I have a JRT she is obsessed with the cat, her main goal in life is to find him, chase him and then lick him. 10% of the time he is ok with this, but for the other 90% he wants no part of it. We have baby gates up so he has some place to hide, but lots of times he will sit on the other side of the gate so she can see him but cant get to him...this is when she whines and shakes (trembles) its not because she is scared she is just too excited and wants him. she has never peed though, she does when company comes over because she is too hyper...I wonder if this is what your dog is doing rather than being afraid.

I do agree with you that getting between the dog and cat does not work...we have been doing it for a year now  Maggie doesnt care she just looks at me like "get out of my way, I am trying to lick the cat" she has leave it down pretty good, when there is food infront of her, or when we are walking and she sees things to eat or bark at...but again, not with the cat, she is determined to lick him.

We have been giving her treats when he is around and trying to enforce the leave it, but it doesnt help, I either have to keep treating the whole time the cat is around or she just eats the treats and when they are done she goes back to the cat.

I am going to follow this post as well, I have no advice for you...but I sympathize as I am in the same boat


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> Have you taught her a focus word? If not, this is where you start. Use a clicker or YES when she looks at you. If you can spit the food at her so it comes from your mouth and she catches it, that would be ideal (albeit disgusting sounding).
> 
> Start with saying YES and immediately spitting food at her every time she looks at you. Start in the house. when she is looking at you reliably add a word. I am not original.. I use the word "Attention!" and others use "watch" or "look" etc. When she is looking at you reliably in the house when you say "attention!" start to build on duration.
> 
> Now.. move outside and do this some more. And keep at it. The rest of the dog's life. Oh yeah.. Not easy.


I am going to try this with Maggie, I have tried just treating her, but that didnt work, I think this could. Thank you.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

I've skimmed the responses. Only b/c I just got home from picking the dog up at daycare. She goes to my trainer. I got a lot of great info from her, and I've asked her to come over and observe the behavior and give me input. 

So Elana55 I do thank you for all your helpful info, but like you already suggested, I'm not looking for the internet to tell me what to do so much as I wanted to hear stories of folks who have been there done that in this situation. I do appreciate the training tips you give, I always mull them over and keep them in the back of my head. Sort of like filling up the tool box with tools. But I do rely on people who know my dog (ie the trainer) to give solid advice on the specific situation. Does that make sense?

I will rely on my trainer for on site info. When I picked the dog up today we talked about the issue. She's thinking that it is excitement and wanting to play. But she grants that genetics could be pointing her in the prey dirve mode as well.

I was thinking quivering means fear. But like misty073 said, I guess it could just mean excitement. 

I've never seen my dog afraid. I do not think of her as a fearful dog. She's never at my side, always off exploring. At 5mo she'd run off 400 ft away and crawl through culverts. happily. She goes into the tunnel at dog class where other dogs are timid and balk. and etc.

gotto go, family awaits


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Whoo Hoo, has anyone hear read Leslie McDevitt's book Control Unleashed? 

http://www.controlunleashed.net/

Anyway I skimmed ahead last night and came to the Looks At That! game. She goes into detail about why the Focus command doesn't work. But training the dog to look at that does. It's alot like Patricia McConnells Autowatch. She's used this training trick when dealing with dog reactive dogs on a leash.

A lot like the Doggie Zen stickie

Operating under the Look at That game, I would work sub-threshhold and click and treat every time my dog looks at the cat. (it can even be just an ear twitch or other subtle acknowledgment of the cat's presence) Eventually I get to the point where the dog is going to just look at the cat, look at me and that's all she'll do. "Look at me mom, I saw the cat, where the treat?" And that will override the anxiety, the whineing, the crazy fast heartbeat. The shakes.

I'm on lunch, got to rush off, and can't explain what I skimmed over at 11pm last night very well. but it was a lightbulb moment when I read it.


Anyways, back to reality. Last night after dinner I put the dog on a leash and got some high value treats (wet cat food......my normal high value treats are usually small bits of real meatball, chicken or turkey so I needed to up the ante) I entered the cat room room, found the cat and proceeded to treat the dog as she looked at the cat. Dog was pretty ramped up and I was having to place the food right in front of her mouth for her to notice it. But after the 3rd bite her head turned, glued on me, eyes as big as they can get with this look of "Holy COW that's the most amazing thing I ever ate. More ?!" Her attention stayed glued on me and the treats. I fed her the treat for about another few seconds (rapid fire delievery of about 10 cat food bites) then left the room and put away the treats. 

Did this again this am. Only this time she gobbled up the treats immediatly.

So the point of all this is to get the dog to look at me in the presence of the cat. I don't have to used the word focus, here. It's just operant conditioning. I actually use no words, no feedback to the dog at all. Like a Skinner box my inst. said. I'm just rewiring the dogs brain's response to the cat from excited uncontrolable state, to one of calm relaxation...... or so I think that's the plan....

It's raining, cat will stay inside in her room today. Dog is relaxed after a long day of doggie daycare yesterday. And she'd currently napping in another room by herself.



Sorry forgot to add. Unleashed the same. This am was unleashed.

Also I have allowed the cat and dog to meet and see what happens. Cat scratched the dog's eye, I ended up taking the dog into the vet at 6:05pm (They close at 6pm) and they stained the eye, etc etc. I ended up with a $110 vet bill and the dog ended up on antibiotics and eye ointment for 7 days........


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

I am going to look into this later when I have more time, but just wanted to say I dont think you should be treating with cat food? I know they are different and cat food isnt good for dogs...infact my dog will throw up catfood. I find the best high value treat for my girls is homemade liver treats. I cut liver into strips and turn the oven on to about (200) I cant remember the exact temperature though...and dry the liver for about 2 hours (house stinks though LOL) then when cooled I cut into small pieces and freeze, leaving some thawed in the fridge...this worked for house training Maggie when after a year we were having no luck.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

NRB said:


> Also I have allowed the cat and dog to meet and see what happens. Cat scratched the dog's eye, I ended up taking the dog into the vet at 6:05pm (They close at 6pm) and they stained the eye, etc etc. I ended up with a $110 vet bill and the dog ended up on antibiotics and eye ointment for 7 days........


My cat wont scratch the dog, I almost wish he would because then she might back off. But he is very calm and just lets her straddle him while he tries to run away...he will bat at Bella though...but the only time Bella is interested is if Maggie is chasing him.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

misty073 said:


> I am going to look into this later when I have more time, but just wanted to say I dont think you should be treating with cat food? I know they are different and cat food isnt good for dogs...infact my dog will throw up catfood. I find the best high value treat for my girls is homemade liver treats. I cut liver into strips and turn the oven on to about (200) I cant remember the exact temperature though...and dry the liver for about 2 hours (house stinks though LOL) then when cooled I cut into small pieces and freeze, leaving some thawed in the fridge...this worked for house training Maggie when after a year we were having no luck.



My dog hates the freeze dried lived you buy in bags at the dog store. Also doesn't like hotdogs.... weird. I guess I could poach liver with onions and garlic and see how that goes.... No way could I stomach the smell of drying out liver in the oven for 2 hrs. I can barely keep my lunch down poaching liver I bet..... 

My inst suggested the cat food. I am only using a piece the sz of my pinkie nail.... not the entire can, or even 1/4 the can.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

NRB said:


> My dog hates the freeze dried lived you buy in bags at the dog store. Also doesn't like hotdogs.... weird. I guess I could poach liver with onions and garlic and see how that goes.... No way could I stomach the smell of drying out liver in the oven for 2 hrs. I can barely keep my lunch down poaching liver I bet.....
> 
> My inst suggested the cat food. I am only using a piece the sz of my pinkie nail.... not the entire can, or even 1/4 the can.


No onions or garlic for the dog! They're on the list of bad foods, I believe.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> No onions or garlic for the dog! They're on the list of bad foods, I believe.


good to know, no onions or garlic then.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

I got my GSD to stop chasing our cats using the look at that game from control unleashed. It took some time and management (he did not get the opportunity to ever chase the cats while we were working on this). It worked well, he will chase other cats, but not ours.

I also did this game with the cats to teach them to accept the dogs better. I've done it with them with each dog we have lived with, it helps a lot. My cats are conditioned to clicker, and I literally play the look at that game with them with the dogs. We start at a distance (with someone holding the dog on leash) and work our way up until I can have dog and cat sitting next to each other, looking at each other and then me for a treat. My one cat loves tiny hot dog pieces, the other loves chicken.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

NRB said:


> My dog hates the freeze dried lived you buy in bags at the dog store. Also doesn't like hotdogs.... weird. I guess I could poach liver with onions and garlic and see how that goes.... No way could I stomach the smell of drying out liver in the oven for 2 hrs. I can barely keep my lunch down poaching liver I bet.....
> 
> My inst suggested the cat food. I am only using a piece the sz of my pinkie nail.... not the entire can, or even 1/4 the can.


Boil the liver, pat dry, then bake 35 minutes at about 300.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> The treats, BTW are also a good idea.. to relate good things with the cat being present. However, you need to get the dog to focus on you if the cat is present.. and that is more work.
> 
> This can take a long time.
> 
> Honestly, as much as my dog and cats like each other I never trust the dog alone with the cats. I have one cat that sleeps with the dog and they have quite a bond.


Absolutely. I would never ever ever think my dog was so Disney-Dog as to leave him "baby sit" the cats. It's just asking for trouble, no matter how "good" your dog is with the cats. 
I was/am stringent and very no-nonsense when it comes to the cats and the dogs. Chasing is not allowed. Staring isn't allowed either. The dogs learn that the cats are MINE and not to be messed with. (How's that for someone who trains other behaviors with clickers and cookies? <BEG>) 
I think the trainer who said this could take up to a month might be under estimating how much work it can/will be to "cure" a cat obsessed dog. IMO, it might not be "curable" at all, and could actually be a life time of good management and common sense. To say a dog will be "cured" for wanting to pounce on the cat in a month is, IMO, bunk.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

melgrj7 said:


> I got my GSD to stop chasing our cats using the look at that game from control unleashed. It took some time and management (he did not get the opportunity to ever chase the cats while we were working on this). It worked well, he will chase other cats, but not ours.
> 
> I also did this game with the cats to teach them to accept the dogs better. I've done it with them with each dog we have lived with, it helps a lot. My cats are conditioned to clicker, and I literally play the look at that game with them with the dogs. We start at a distance (with someone holding the dog on leash) and work our way up until I can have dog and cat sitting next to each other, looking at each other and then me for a treat. My one cat loves tiny hot dog pieces, the other loves chicken.


Clicker savvy cats are THE BEST, aren't they?!  Will LOVES the clicker and learned how to sit pretty, lol. I never thought about playing the LAT game with the cats, I will have to try this


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

I agree it is often something that is never cured. I would never trust Nash alone with the cats. He was the hardest dog to get to stop chasing them. I can still see he wants to chase them when they are running, but he doesn't. Still the cats have get away options (baby gates, high places the dogs can't reach) and Nash is crated when we are gone.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> Clicker savvy cats are THE BEST, aren't they?!  Will LOVES the clicker and learned how to sit pretty, lol. I never thought about playing the LAT game with the cats, I will have to try this


Yeah its fun Snickers does almost an entire obedience routine.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I think the trainer who said this could take up to a month might be under estimating how much work it can/will be to "cure" a cat obsessed dog. IMO, it might not be "curable" at all, and could actually be a life time of good management and common sense. To say a dog will be "cured" for wanting to pounce on the cat in a month is, IMO, bunk.


Let me be clear. The trainer said it could take a month. Or more. GO re-read the original post. NOT that it would take a month. She also never stated that it would be cured 100%. She states that in general it can take up to 2000 repetitions to get a behavior down, but given that she knows my dog, more like 4000. The 2000 figure is just from some studies done. Again it's a general figure. Like the month. Lets stop beating up on the trainer, eh? She isn't here to defend herself and ultimately it's MY responsibility not hers. It's fair game to beat me up tho 

As to dogs and cats living in peace together, that's been the norm growing up in my family. I have pic of the mini Schnauzer curled up with the cat, from 40 yrs ago. Our 2 Goldens, 1 Mini Schnauzer, 1 Boykin Spaniel, and 3 Aussies were are trustworthy dogs around the cats. All of our cats were 100% safe around those dogs. My mutt and my Aussie were also reliable. We always left them alone together and never had any issues what so ever. So this is kinda new territory to me. Not that I didn't know that there were untrustworthy dogs around cats out there, just that I have had no experience with that (in the 8 dogs that I have lived with) 

Thanks again for the helpful replies.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Just wanted to throw in my own experience, that the "Look at that" game absolutely works with cat-chasing. I used it with Loki when he first got here. It took about 2 - 3 months, but now he can be safely loose with the cats with casual supervision. He went from staring them down, lunging at them, and guarding things from them, to just hanging out happily in the same room. 

I'm working through the game now with Willow, my most highly-prey-driven dog. We've been working on this issue on-and-off for the whole time she's been here; now we're really working hard on it daily. I expect it to take close to a year at the rate we're going, but I am seeing improvement.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Some dogs are just good with cats and some aren't. Lloyd I trust with the cats, he is much like Elana's dog. He licks them and would probably cuddle with them if they had recipricol feelings about the issue, lol. We usually leave him loose when we leave the house. The cats still have get away options though, there are areas baby gated off and high places for them to get to just incase. Nash I don't think will ever get to this point with cats. Lloyd even has what I would consider a higher prey drive than Nash, he just considers our cats part of the family I guess.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

NRB said:


> Let me be clear. The trainer said it could take a month. Or more. GO re-read the original post. NOT that it would take a month. She also never stated that it would be cured 100%. She states that in general it can take up to 2000 repetitions to get a behavior down, but given that she knows my dog, more like 4000. The 2000 figure is just from some studies done. Again it's a general figure. Like the month. Lets stop beating up on the trainer, eh? She isn't here to defend herself and ultimately it's MY responsibility not hers. It's fair game to beat me up tho
> 
> As to dogs and cats living in peace together, that's been the norm growing up in my family. I have pic of the mini Schnauzer curled up with the cat, from 40 yrs ago. Our 2 Goldens, 1 Mini Schnauzer, 1 Boykin Spaniel, and 3 Aussies were are trustworthy dogs around the cats. All of our cats were 100% safe around those dogs. My mutt and my Aussie were also reliable. We always left them alone together and never had any issues what so ever. So this is kinda new territory to me. Not that I didn't know that there were untrustworthy dogs around cats out there, just that I have had no experience with that (in the 8 dogs that I have lived with)
> 
> Thanks again for the helpful replies.


I wasn't attempting to "beat up" the trainer. Not saying you or the trainer would do this, but I have heard several incidences where the family cat was killed by the dog that was supposively "cured" from cat chasing, and it escalated. I have a soft spot in my heart for kitties, so I tend to do my best to protect them, that's all


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

I can tell you that with some dogs it's much more difficult than others. Zero still goes nuts when a cat is around. We went to the HS the other day and made the mistake of sitting in a chair outside one of the cat rooms. Zero went nuts. I got him to sit there with the cat on the other side of the glass, but he continued to whine the whole time.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I wasn't attempting to "beat up" the trainer. Not saying you or the trainer would do this, but I have heard several incidences where the family cat was killed by the dog that was supposively "cured" from cat chasing, and it escalated. I have a soft spot in my heart for kitties, so I tend to do my best to protect them, that's all


Ok, thanks for clarification. Your earlier post made it appear otherwise. Good point to make. 

One family cat was killed in front of the house by a pack of neighborhood dogs while our own dogs were far away in our back yard. she was The Best cat. miss her.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

hulkamaniac said:


> I can tell you that with some dogs it's much more difficult than others. Zero still goes nuts when a cat is around. We went to the HS the other day and made the mistake of sitting in a chair outside one of the cat rooms. Zero went nuts. I got him to sit there with the cat on the other side of the glass, but he continued to whine the whole time.


Ya, apparently I have one of those dogs as well. Lucky me.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

So the treat feeding is well, presenting more training opportunities. Before the dog would get agitated and whine whenever a family member walked into the cat room, aka Laundry room. NOW the dog really gets riled up. So I get an opportunity to work on Doggie Zen type stuff. I get to wait out all the whining and antics until she is calm, THEN reward her with a look at the cat and a few treats.

Bought liver today (bleck) and it is frozen. So now will thaw 4 frozen liver patties.

Johnny Bandit How long do you boil it for??

Can't wait to have trainer over for a look see. Maybe she'll be into the Look at That game instead. But til then I'll stay the course and see if the Skinner box works.......

Today was a Beer drinking day..... In other words a very frustrating day dealing with the doggie-o. She's ripping my left arm out on walks (ok slight exaggeration but my left are is sore after a walk) she pulls like a freight train on the GL Harness ANS the GL head halter. I've been doing the reveres, not getting anywhere. But I'm not acting like the crazy owner, too self conscious I guess. Proof that I suck as a dog trainer. Why oh Why did I get a terrier? I miss my mutt so bad, he was the best. Thought like that make me feel guilty for not appreciating the dog I have now, instead of pining for the one who passed away. But Man was he so easy to train and live with.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

NRB said:


> Ok, thanks for clarification. Your earlier post made it appear otherwise. Good point to make.
> 
> One family cat was killed in front of the house by a pack of neighborhood dogs while our own dogs were far away in our back yard. she was The Best cat. miss her.


Sorry about the misunderstanding, and sorry about the cat  I saw my neighbors cat (that we had fostered/raised) be ripped to shreds by the other neighbors 3 dogs as a kid. I will never forget that. (The dogs were also human aggressive, and were eventually taken by AC...)


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## EarthMonkey (Nov 14, 2009)

Our cat is a rather timid cat in many ways. When we first brought home the Kage the cat would not come near him and ran from him. At first the puppy was great with the cat; but seeing the cat run got him hyper. He as he got older started barking, growling, lunging at our cat. We started giving him treats every time he saw the cat and then looked at us. Then we started working on not barking at the cat. Then we started giving him treats when he looked at the cat and walked away. We had baby gates up that kept them apart. We also still have a baby gate which gives the cat the entire upstairs as his domain. The cat then stopped running from the dog. We started letting them near each other since the dog was not barking and lunging any more. The puppy would go up close to the cat and wag his tail and do play bows. The cat would hiss and growl. The puppy would run around in circles away from the cat and the cat would sit and look indignant and attempt to claw the puppy when the puppy got too close. At this point the puppy still gives Horton the cat sniffs, and play bows. Horton does half way hisses and ignores the pup. The puppy whimpers to play with his "friend" and runs away from Horton when he gets to the more serious hiss. 

He still gets excited and wild when stray cats, visiting birds, or squirrels from the neighborhood come through the yard. But he acts very differently with our cat. Even outside he recognizes Horton. We do not leave them alone together. It has taken over four months to get the dog and the cat to this point. 

At a certain point we realized the only one who could solve the problem any further was Horton. He had to stand up to the puppy and let the puppy know he wouldn't run from him for it work. He had to do it while the puppy was small enough that the cat could put a little caution into the puppy's mind. Once he did that the puppy stopped messing with him. Kage has been doing it less and less. He is now at a sniff and wag only without the run around stuff. I don't know how it will pan out but we hope the dog will get more and more apt to ignore the cat and the cat will get more apt to not growl and hiss at the puppy when he is doing nothing that deserves it.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

*Update; trainer visited today*

WHOOT. trainer was over at the house today to observe the dog/ cat interaction. Dog is not trying to kill the cat, dog wants to play with the cat. Cat is Not stressed about the dog's presence. 

Operant conditioning wasn't going to work in this case. It just got the dog more excited. So she'd whine and pace even more. So we scraped that idea and used Premack Principle instead. And Oh My Goodness you should have seen this dog work for us so she could go see the cat. Wow. Since the cat lives in the laundry room (she destroyed furniture) and outside during the day. I can control the dogs access to viewing the cat. Sooo, will be doing lots of training sessions using the Cat Viewing as the reward. WOW such a bigger reward than food for this dog.

Awesome. I'm FINALLY going to get a beautiful LLW.

so the end result should be, a dog who is non-plussed about the cat. A dog that realized that I hold the key to access to wonderful things, a dog that pays attention to me. and etc. All the good stuff that happens as the brain stops fixating on the obsession and etc. I can't put it into words, still stunned by what happened today. Will find better language to explain.... Control Unleashed book explains it best in the "look at that " command.... also Patricia McConnell's Auto watch..... and other stuff.. My brain is mush...


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