# The Billion Dollar Heartworm Scam



## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Came across this blog post - very interesting.



> *Heartworm is not a canine pandemic.*
> In fact, heartworm is pretty rare in much of the country, and in very cold areas of the country a veterinarian may go his or her entire career without seeing a single case.
> 
> *Heartworm infection is NOT rapid and will not kill your dog overnight.*
> ...


So there are the bones of it - more details in the post. Thoughts?


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Look at the life cycle yourself. The microfilaria have to live inside the mosquito for 10-14 days and if at ANY point the temperature drops below 57*(F) then the microfilaria die. What I do is keep an eye on the weather. If the temp stays above 57* for 2 weeks then 3 months later I give 1 dose of Heartguard. A single dose will wipe out any infection that has occurred in the previous 3 months, from what I've come to understand.

http://www.heartwormsociety.org/veterinary-resources/canine-guidelines.html#2


> The susceptible mosquito becomes infected when taking a blood meal from a microfilaremic host. The microfilariae develop to the third stage in the mosquito’s malpighian tubules and then migrate via the body cavity to the head and mouthparts of the mosquito where they become infective. The time required for the development of microfilariae to the infective stage in the mosquito is temperature dependent. At 27°C and 80% relative humidity, development takes about 10 to 14 days.


When I do give Heartguard, I smash it up really well first.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

I just gave my dog his first heartworm pill the beginning of this month. 

I also use the safe heart dose.http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary...lDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm054862.htm

Basically the safe heart was interceptor given at a lower dose. Since interceptor was discontinued I use sentinel. I just give the dose for dogs up to 10lbs. The only problem is it doesn't protect against other worms. I don't think it's something that I should have to worry about every month anyways. There is just no need to deworm a dog every month which is basically what giving those all-in-one products is doing.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Whether or not it's a significant risk totally depends on where you live. 

I have fostered several HW+ dogs and seen half a dozen die of serious complications of untreated heartworm disease. My best friend lost a dog to HW disease while using 12 month prevention. For real. Dog couldn't survive the "slow kill" method of treatment that her vet suggested given the dogs age and other issues.

The disease is very real and very serious. Nice snappy headline, but man, heartworm sucks.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

trainingjunkie said:


> Whether or not it's a significant risk totally depends on where you live.
> 
> I have fostered several HW+ dogs and seen half a dozen die of serious complications of untreated heartworm disease. My best friend lost a dog to HW disease while using 12 month prevention. For real. Dog couldn't survive the "slow kill" method of treatment that her vet suggested given the dogs age and other issues.
> 
> The disease is very real and very serious. Nice snappy headline, but man, heartworm sucks.


I think the article is much less applicable if you're in the South. Here in Ontario (Canada) there has been an increase in HW incidence but the numbers are still very low. I want to do a lot more research, we're covered for the rest of this year  since HW season is short. I'm considering doing something different next summer though. My vet bills this year were *insane* - seemingly without very good cause. I want to reign it in next year but of course not compromise too much or put him in danger.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

FYI-- I live in MN.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

One of the rescues I help out with crunched their numbers a few years back and found out that 80% of dogs over one year old that come into their rescue are HW+. Luckily, the majority have worm loads that make the "slow kill" method possible, so that is primarily what they do. Keep in mind we have pretty decent winters and live in a climate where a person can get by on seasonal dosing. In southern states many rescues hit the 100% mark.

You have to keep in mind that for those 18-24 months the worms are STILL causing damage, so if there is significant damage already present it will continue to worsen. If the dog has other complicating conditions many times they can't physically last that long with heavy worm loads. 

You also have to adhere to a measure of exercise restriction for the entire length of treatment, versus only for a couple months for the "fast kill" method. Imagine trying to keep a young super energetic dog relatively quiet for years. HW+ status also leaves the dog more susceptible to other illnesses. So while the dog may be okay with the heart worms, you often wind up seeing more frequent and serious respiratory issues.

Emmett was positive when he was dumped. Weighing all the pros and cons we decided on the "fast kill" method, but he will always have a sporadic cough, not be able to handle the heat as well as he should and need to be watched in is physical exertion because his respiratory system can't handle it. No he didn't drop dead the minute he was infected, nor even the first year, but it is still a serious disease and a serious risk in most of the country.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

It is a serious problem here and every time we take a new rescue dog into the vet for a first check up and heartworm test, everyone just crosses their fingers and prays. Basically, if a dog isn't on prevention (it IS prevention in the sense of preventing the development of adult heartworms that cause the problems), there is a high chance of being HW+ 
It seems most rescues go for the fast-kill method while the dog is in foster in order to limit continuing strain on the dog and to be able to adopt out a HW Neg dog.
I would hazard an unscientific guess that well over 50% of the adult dogs that come in as strays or neglect cases (as opposed to cases like owner surrenders due to owner's housing or health etc where the owner was caring for the dog properly) are HW+

You don't HAVE to use the branded pills/topical, plenty of people do use ivermectin from the farm store at a very cheap price, but I would say that you do HAVE to use something around here. Last winter we had mosquitoes popping up all winter on the odd warm weeks and just not enough deep freezes to knock them out completely so year-round prevention is recommended.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

It sounds like the same kind of stuff I hear from people who are against immunizations for kids.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

I don't think the article is really about whether or not you need to use heartworm prevention but how often. If it takes 3 months for the larva to develop then if you give the prevention every 2-3 months the dog should still be covered. At least that way you're only giving 6 doses at the most instead of 12. 

If you're in an area with cold winters then you could give the last does in November and start again whenever the weather rises above 57 degrees for a period of about 2 weaks. It doesn't really matter if the mosquitoes are around in the winter because either way the heartworm parasite can't survive inside the mosquitoes in temps below 57 degrees. They die, even if the mosquitoes doesn't.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Rowdy said:


> It sounds like the same kind of stuff I hear from people who are against immunizations for kids.


Except the claims here do seem to be rooted in science (I haven't verified everything but nothing pops out as outright quackery). He's not suggesting anything comparable to the anti-immunization crowd's autism claims.

I am very much for immunization for kids. Luckily in Canada our healthcare is socialized so we don't need to consider cost when it come to health care - its not the same equation for dogs as much as I wish it were. 

I have more research to do, just thought I'd run it by people here to see if anything pops out as outright wrong or stupid.

EDIT: One thing that I do notice is that my vet told me using HW preventative if he's heartworm positive is really dangerous. Which is why I can only get it on prescription and why they insist on an examination and a blood test before prescription - making just HW a $200 affair. But it looks like the treatment for heartworm actually starts with HW prevention - so why do they do that? Did the vet lie or is there a good reason?


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

ok I have a question.. where I live I don't have to worry about heartworm, lyme disease, flea's, nothing. because of this my dogs have never been on any kind of prevention. now in a couple weeks I am travelling with 4 of my dogs, I am going to be backpacking and staying lakeside for a week in an area that has ALL of those things and bad. the vet gave me Revolution with instructions to apply it shortly before we leave home. I am now confused about it not PREVENTING heartworm..its that still right when they are never going to get another dose of anything ever? I don't want to apply it AFTER, then I wouldn't have the flea/tick prevention...


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Miss Bugs said:


> ok I have a question.. where I live I don't have to worry about heartworm, lyme disease, flea's, nothing. because of this my dogs have never been on any kind of prevention. now in a couple weeks I am travelling with 4 of my dogs, I am going to be backpacking and staying lakeside for a week in an area that has ALL of those things and bad. the vet gave me Revolution with instructions to apply it shortly before we leave home. I am now confused about it not PREVENTING heartworm..its that still right when they are never going to get another dose of anything ever? I don't want to apply it AFTER, then I wouldn't have the flea/tick prevention...


I think what the article means is that HW "prevention" is actually HW treatment. That the only way to "prevent" HW is to kill the nematodes/larval worms before they get a chance to develop but after they're in the dog. So Revolution will prevent HW when applied before the trip. I'm using Revolution too and both it and my vet said that I would be covered for the Summer for HW, fleas, ticks etc. That said, we are dealing with a bit of a flea problem so that aspect of it might not work perfectly.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I do think that Heartgard has a real scam going, because they place less than one drop of ivermectin on a chewy treat and then sell it for $7 . If they charged something like $2-$3 I wouldn't think it was so awful, but wow, that's some markup. And then the vet insists on a test, so that a LOT of people feel like they can't afford heartworm prevention so they skip it entirely :/. If they knew the lower-cost alternatives it would be a lot better for everybody. And trying to convince people that live in colder areas to give Heartgard all year long. 

Other than that, no, I don't think heartworm prevention is a scam. I've known several farm dogs who died of heartworm (or my best guess, because of course they didn't get a diagnosis. But coughing and lethargy were the symptoms).

I use Ivomec.


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## shannylee (Aug 8, 2013)

We had to treat our HW+ Lab when I was a kid. She wasn't expected to live through the treatment and it was really rough for several weeks. Don't ever want to have to put another dog through that. I live in FL and the mosquitoes will haul you off here. I keep my dog on HW meds.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Heartworm test at one of my vets runs about $25 (maybe less when combined with the annual rabies and exam) and the generic of Heartguard around $3-5 per dose depending on dog weight. Of course that is more than Ivomec, but for the ease of giving the dose and the "idiot proof' dosing, $5 a month is really minimal in the grand scheme of things for owning a dog for most people. 

I like that most of the sites selling the HW prevention notes that the dose kills the parasites acquired previously to the dose rather than preventing something upcoming.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

In my hometown in Texas EVERYONE uses heartworm prevention. The mosquitoes are so awful in South Texas that you they hire trucks to go around every night to kill the mosquitos in the summer time. Sometimes the winters aren't that cold either, so you might have mosquitoes all year round. 

However up here in the northwest I don't know anyone who uses heartworm prevention. Mosquitoes aren't really big up here and I don't worry much about it. 

If I ever travel with Ammy back home to Texas though I will put her on heartworm before we go.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Willowy said:


> I use Ivomec.


That looks promising. Is there any worry about using it after a period off the drug? Up north mosquitoes aren't a year-round problem so I only do preventative in the summer. The vet said that a blood test was absolutely necessary before taking heartguard because if the dog is infected its really dangerous. Is there any truth to that?



Shell said:


> Heartworm test at one of my vets runs about $25 (maybe less when combined with the annual rabies and exam) and the generic of Heartguard around $3-5 per dose depending on dog weight. Of course that is more than Ivomec, but for the ease of giving the dose and the "idiot proof' dosing, $5 a month is really minimal in the grand scheme of things for owning a dog for most people.
> 
> I like that most of the sites selling the HW prevention notes that the dose kills the parasites acquired previously to the dose rather than preventing something upcoming.


At my vet the exam fee is $75, blood test $45 and heartguard somewhere in the neighbourhood of $50 for the summer doses. If I ask for a prescription and buy Heartguard elsewhere to save a bit they tack on a $25 prescription fee. About $200 minimum. This is the same vet that cost over $400 to get a prescription of Clomicalm because she insisted I get a consult from an e-vet neurologist before prescribing anything. I will be getting a new vet, but in any event I don't make much and like to save money where I can. If I can get a cheaper alternative and still have HW prevention, why not?

This would be for next year so there is lots of time to sort out the best/safest strategy.

Found something helpful...


> You should have the dog tested for heartworms first because once you start treating, the test won't work anymore. Ivermectin will not kill adult heartworms, although there is some evidence that it makes them sterile (can't breed any more so your dog is not a pool for infection) and that it may shorten their lives, usually about 2 years if untreated. So if your dog has heartworms and you start treating him without testing first, you won�t be able to tell later if he needs treatment for adult heartworms. It won�t show up on the test anymore.


Ah, but then....


> Our vets ask if the dog is receiving ivermectin, and if they are and we still want to do a test for heartworm, there is a different test available that works.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Well the three months thing is incredibly misleading. Heartworm preventatives are best at killing L3 and L4 stages but really inconsistent at killing L5. You could not pay me all the money in the world to give heartworm preventative every 3 months. There is a huge variation in how fast the individual larvae mature through their various stages and hitting L5 before 90 days is absolutely possible. Honestly if I lived down south, I would probably give preventative every 2 weeks just because the sheer exposure virtually guarantees some "early bloomers." 

And even up here, where it is "cold," there are plenty cases every year, I wouldn't call it "pretty rare." I wish I could go a single year without seeing a case. Incidence depends more on distribution and prevalence of the mosquito vectors than necessarily the climate - some areas without the proper mosquito species don't give heartworm preventative at all. 

Second of all, heartworm preventatives prevent _heartworm disease_; that is, an infection with mature worms in the heart. No one claims it prevents infection with microfilariae. 

Third of all... heartworm treatment easy LOL. 

Fourth of all... even if the outdoor temperature drops below 57 degrees, our houses (and under the siding or porch or all the other nooks and crannies) often have microenvironments that remain at a higher temperature. 


I never understand why people balk at giving monthly heartworm preventatives. People spend more on a couple of lattes than they do on their monthly pill, and even if it isn't about the money why gamble? The drugs are very safe and are eliminated from the body quickly. Maybe people have to see a dog get treated for heartworm before they take it seriously? I honestly don't get it.


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## mrgoodkat (Oct 21, 2012)

We are living in the tropics, so the temperature never drops below 57. I give my babies Heart-Guard every months, not taking any chances. Faith was infected with heartworms before we adopted here. Rather not have that happening again.


We are run over by mosquitoes during summer and have them pretty much year round. I have to give Jing Jing a mosquito prevention designed for horses or she will be covered in hundreds of bites.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks for your post Sass! I have a lot more reading and more than a few months to do it in, before making any decisions.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I never bought heart worm pills,it normally gets under 60 degrees at night,even in the hottest months of summer. I haven't been bitten by a mosquito yet this year. In winter it can get as low as 15 degrees F at night. I no longer buy lattes and rarely shop for myself as well,my money does tend to go towards animals.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea, like I said, some areas of the country don't give preventative at all, they just don't have the mosquito populations.


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## AmandaN (Apr 15, 2013)

Shell said:


> It is a serious problem here and every time we take a new rescue dog into the vet for a first check up and heartworm test, everyone just crosses their fingers and prays. Basically, if a dog isn't on prevention (it IS prevention in the sense of preventing the development of adult heartworms that cause the problems), there is a high chance of being HW+
> It seems most rescues go for the fast-kill method while the dog is in foster in order to limit continuing strain on the dog and to be able to adopt out a HW Neg dog.
> I would hazard an unscientific guess that well over 50% of the adult dogs that come in as strays or neglect cases (as opposed to cases like owner surrenders due to owner's housing or health etc where the owner was caring for the dog properly) are HW+
> 
> You don't HAVE to use the branded pills/topical, plenty of people do use ivermectin from the farm store at a very cheap price, but I would say that you do HAVE to use something around here. Last winter we had mosquitoes popping up all winter on the odd warm weeks and just not enough deep freezes to knock them out completely so year-round prevention is recommended.


Well said. Here in FL, we have mosquitoes year round. Where I am (north FL, close to the coast), we only have a total of about 40 days without mosquitoes. It's a very real, very dangerous risk here. I keep my girl on year round prevention.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

sassafras said:


> I never understand why people balk at giving monthly heartworm preventatives. People spend more on a couple of lattes than they do on their monthly pill, and even if it isn't about the money why gamble? The drugs are very safe and are eliminated from the body quickly. Maybe people have to see a dog get treated for heartworm before they take it seriously? I honestly don't get it.


Maybe you should try paying over 6k in vet bills to treat acute liver disease so you can understand why some people are scared shitless about giving their dog poison on a monthly basis. Even if it is supposedly "safe" poison.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

xoxluvablexox said:


> Maybe you should try paying over 6k in vet bills to treat acute liver disease so you can understand why some people are scared shitless about giving their dog poison on a monthly basis. Even if it is supposedly "safe" poison.


What do you think the relative risks are of an adverse reaction like that vs. getting heartworm?

I'll give you a hint: I have never once in my career seen a dog have a serious adverse reaction to a heartworm preventative. I see at least a couple of cases of heartworm a year. And the adulticides are a far, far more dangerous poison than the preventatives.

Every time I take ibuprofin I could go into kidney failure. But I'm still going to take it if I have a splitting headache, because that risk is very low and the benefits are worth it to me.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

I still give my dog his heartworm but I'm just trying to get you to understand that some people do have a reason to care. It's not just about saving money or whatever. 

I'm literally so paranoid about giving it to him that for a full week I give him spirulina, SAMe, and milk thistle. I consistently check his eyes, his gums, his stool, his urine. I mean I seriously turn into a nutcase because I'm so scared that it will harm his liver and he won't get better this time. 

So yeah, if I can find a way to give him less poison, regardless of how safe it might be, then I would be thrilled.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

People care because they are ignorant about the risks of everything else.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

sassafras said:


> Every time I take ibuprofin I could go into kidney failure. But I'm still going to take it if I have a splitting headache, because that risk is very low and the benefits are worth it to me.


Or you could have a freak reaction where all your skin peels off. Yep, that's a potential side effect to several over-the-counter pain pills. Does it stop people from taking them when needed? 

If someone is really worried about the effects of HW preventative on internal organs, than a yearly blood panel might be an option and not all that expensive. My dog's recent one (for a completely different issue) cost $95.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

It is a *serious *problem here like Shell has said. At my clinic we diagnose HW+ dogs almost daily. This last week alone (from Monday until today) we have diagnosed 16 cases at my hospital alone. People have different reactions to being told their dogs are positive. Many people find out their dog is positive and they want to euthanize. Some take them to a rescue and turn them over (most of the time without saying they have HW's). Some leave it alone and let nature take its course (They say they will be back and never come). And some choose to treat. When the rescue brings their dogs in we send up a silent prayer that they will be okay and test negative.

We are in the progress of 6 treatments right now, all in different stages of treatment. At my clinic I am the main person in charge of these poor dogs while they are with us. Its heartbreaking. Some do very well with the treatments. Others however...do not take well to it. They get sick and weak, their gums pale, and they shake. I sit with them and comfort them as much as I can. I give SubQ fluids (and sometimes other things the drs want them to get) and I wait it out. Eventually the symptoms will pass (most of the time) and they will be able to go home until the next treatment. I hate watching these poor animals go through this. The treatment is anything but easy. 

My pups are on HG+ year round. They are tested every year. You can never be to safe when it comes to the ones you love. I couldn't bare to see one my dog have to go through this. Like Sassafras said I have never seen a dog with severe reactions to HWP. I have seen horrible reactions to the treatments.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I had to treat one of my dogs for heartworm....she came to me with it. And there was no way to know. She was from a breeder, only 7 months old. There would be no reason to even SUSPECT she had heartworm. When she turned a year old, we ran the annual test....and she came up positive. I had her tested again, and they tested the blood twice.

Positive.

It was an absolutely HORRIBLE experience. I was actually going to opt to do the slow kill method until I found out there was a doxycycline shortage. We ended up doing immiticide. It was nerve wracking keeping her lightly exercised. She got the all clear in July, and for the first time in 2-3 months, she got to really RUN like a puppy should. And while she was running, I was still terrified that she was just going to drop dead in front of me.

All of my dogs get Ivomec every month, and the puppy came to me on Ivomec (she came from Georgia). I hope I don't ever have to go through HW treatment again


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## TRDmom (Mar 3, 2013)

How do you dose the Ivomec? Also, a quick search showed an injection method. How do you give it? Orally?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yup, just give it orally. That said, it's really not cost effective unless you have multiple dogs.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

I can tell you that if you live in the gulf states, heartworms are the REAL DEAL. Fail to use a preventative, your dog will get heartworms. Sooner or later.

I am old enough that I go back pre heartgard, pre flarabits, to some gooey syrupy nasty stuff you squirted on your dogs food every day. Many dogs would not eat it. 

Before Flarabits, we lost dogs to heartworms. Dogs die down here from heartworms all the time. 

And down here it is a 12 month a year thing.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't have a problem with giving my dog heartguard year round. Heartworms aside, considering the number of nasty thing my dog puts in his mouth outdoors on a daily basis... I think a routine intestinal deworming is a pretty good idea. 

I think one reason that the dosing isn't say, once every 6 wks or 2 months is that compliance would go down. It's easy to remember - HW pill the first of the month. It's harder to remember every 6 wks.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

BTW.... Stage 1 and 2 heartworm infected dogs can be treated long term with Ivomec and it will clean them up. Rescues down here, do it all the time.


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## TRDmom (Mar 3, 2013)

Xeph said:


> Yup, just give it orally. That said, it's really not cost effective unless you have multiple dogs.


I have three.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Hambonez said:


> I don't have a problem with giving my dog heartguard year round. Heartworms aside, considering the number of nasty thing my dog puts in his mouth outdoors on a daily basis... I think a routine intestinal deworming is a pretty good idea.
> 
> I think one reason that the dosing isn't say, once every 6 wks or 2 months is that compliance would go down. It's easy to remember - HW pill the first of the month. It's harder to remember every 6 wks.


That's a large part of it. They even say it should work up to every 6 weeks but they choose to say to give it every month because that's easier to remember. Honestly I think you could do every two months in most states. I think the west is supposed to be the safest as far as danger from heartworm. Gulf states and the further south you go are the most dangerous as JohnnyBandit mentioned. I would probably do a monthly down there but in Northern Jersey it's just not so much of a problem. 

A vet I talked to even told me that I shouldn't worry about heartworm and be more worried about other worms, which the safe heart dose I mentioned before doesn't protect against. I figure since I do a biannual CBC that I could just get a stool sample checked out too. 

Obviously other worms can be dangerous to a dogs health so it's somewhat of a PITA but I feel the safe heart dose is the best way to protect my dog without giving him a dose that's more then he needs.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Willowy said:


> I do think that Heartgard has a real scam going, because they place less than one drop of ivermectin on a chewy treat and then sell it for $7 . If they charged something like $2-$3 I wouldn't think it was so awful, but wow, that's some markup. And then the vet insists on a test, so that a LOT of people feel like they can't afford heartworm prevention so they skip it entirely :/. If they knew the lower-cost alternatives it would be a lot better for everybody. And trying to convince people that live in colder areas to give Heartgard all year long.
> 
> Other than that, no, I don't think heartworm prevention is a scam. I've known several farm dogs who died of heartworm (or my best guess, because of course they didn't get a diagnosis. But coughing and lethargy were the symptoms).
> 
> I use Ivomec.



You are not paying for the ivomec so much as paying for it in an EASILY dosable form. I have never seen a dog that did not act like Heartgard was a treat.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Its not really a scam,it is good to use in some areas of the world. I think people need to know the facts about heart worm medicine and if its right for their dog. It should also not be considered to be necessarily neglect if they aren't given it year round or at all.
Sense I live in a colder area,small mosquito population,he is not a water dog, and my dog doesn't eat poop or roadkill, I feel its un-neciasarry. I don't want to feel guilt-tripped for not using it either.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Here my dogs stay on year round prevention, and still end up positive. Ivermectin no longer works thanks to resistance. 

Any stray or untreated dog over a year will be positive almost 90% of the time. It's horrible.


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## paribird (Jul 17, 2013)

To my knowledge, HW isn't a huge problem where I live, my vet said she diagnoses a few cases but only a few. It's cold pretty much half the year and mosquitos are never that bad - I can count on one hand how many times I've been bitten this summer, and I spend as much or more time outside than my dog does. He was on the streets for a while during mosquito season before we got him, but he was thankfully negative. But he still gets HWP. I've only seen one dog be treated for heartworm, and it was... horrible. So heart-wracking and stressful, and after seeing that poor dog suffer I'm paranoid enough to give the preventative even though you could argue it's not 100% necessary.


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## DaisyDC (Feb 24, 2013)

I guess part of it is coming into adult dog ownership from equine-land, the idea of dosing with Ivermectin is not at all bothersome to me. What I don't get is why the dog dewormers are RX, when I can go buy a tube of Ivermectin/Pyrantel/Oxibendazole for a horse at any tack or feed store. Honestly, if I could figure out how to get her to eat it, it would be easiest for me to just order a tube of generic Ivermectin for $2 rather than making a seperate prescription refill stop at the dog vet. Any insight on that one, vet folks?

Washington DC was built on a swamp, and we usually spend weekends at either a horse show (so filled with all manner of insects) or at the marina which was built on the edge of a marsh. So needless to say, bugs, bugs, everywhere. My own legs currently look like pepperoni pizza due to mosquito bites. No way am I letting the dog go unprotected. Particularly after talking to a friend who does rescue fostering--one of her fosters from last year was returned to the rescue, because in the year since being adopted she hadn't been treated for HW, and ended up with a horrible case of it. The friend is just heartbroken, and they're working with the rescue to give this poor sweet dog the treatment she needs, to the point that my friend is almost ready to adopt the dog herself to make sure she's cared for forever.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

DaisyDC said:


> I guess part of it is coming into adult dog ownership from equine-land, the idea of dosing with Ivermectin is not at all bothersome to me. What I don't get is why the dog dewormers are RX, when I can go buy a tube of Ivermectin/Pyrantel/Oxibendazole for a horse at any tack or feed store. Honestly, if I could figure out how to get her to eat it, it would be easiest for me to just order a tube of generic Ivermectin for $2 rather than making a seperate prescription refill stop at the dog vet. Any insight on that one, vet folks?
> 
> Washington DC was built on a swamp, and we usually spend weekends at either a horse show (so filled with all manner of insects) or at the marina which was built on the edge of a marsh. So needless to say, bugs, bugs, everywhere. My own legs currently look like pepperoni pizza due to mosquito bites. No way am I letting the dog go unprotected. Particularly after talking to a friend who does rescue fostering--one of her fosters from last year was returned to the rescue, because in the year since being adopted she hadn't been treated for HW, and ended up with a horrible case of it. The friend is just heartbroken, and they're working with the rescue to give this poor sweet dog the treatment she needs, to the point that my friend is almost ready to adopt the dog herself to make sure she's cared for forever.


They make ivermectin in a liquid.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I will not skimp on heart work medicine. We had to put the stray we found through treatment and it was not good. Most stray dogs here will get heartworms.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

JohnnyBandit said:


> You are not paying for the ivomec so much as paying for it in an EASILY dosable form. I have never seen a dog that did not act like Heartgard was a treat.


Yeah, but a drop of Ivomec on a piece of hot dog works just as well . 

I just think people should know the alternatives. And it bugs me that heartworm meds are RX only in the US (supposedly everyone is too stupid to use them properly) but apparently Australians are smart enough to be able to buy them OTC :/.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Everyone keeps talking about strays but what about actual pets? They're not exactly living the same lifestyle. Strays are consistently out in the environment. I can tell you right now my dog spends the majority of his time inside especially at night when the mosquitoes are at the worst. 

How many people actual know how many PET dogs in their home town go into the vet and come up positive for heartworm? 

Throwing out percentages for stray dogs, like 90% end up with heartworm, isn't really something that seems to be the case for actual cases a vet sees in many of those areas. 

Not saying that's a reason to not use heartworm meds but I feel like that would be a more logical way to look at it. My dog is not a stray, he's not outside getting bit by mosquitoes 24 hours a day, so why should something that commonly effect strays be set as an example of the dangers to pet dogs.


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## workerant (Feb 28, 2011)

Shell said:


> It is a serious problem here and every time we take a new rescue dog into the vet for a first check up and heartworm test, everyone just crosses their fingers and prays.
> You don't HAVE to use the branded pills/topical, plenty of people do use ivermectin from the farm store at a very cheap price, but I would say that you do HAVE to use something around here. Last winter we had mosquitoes popping up all winter on the odd warm weeks and just not enough deep freezes to knock them out completely so year-round prevention is recommended.


Thank you. You said this much better than I would have. Heartworm prevention here is not optional, if you care about your dog.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I said most strays seem to have heartworms. We have no idea about the dog I was talking abouts past. She could have well been a pet (probably outdoors by her behavior). 

From talkin to the vet and rescue people it sounds like a lot I the dogs in rescue come in with heartworms. I'm sure many of those were pets to begin with. It was assumed our foster dog was going to test positive and she did. 

I'm outside with my dogs and I get bitten by Mosquitos in the time I'm out there. Why would I assume they are not getting exposed just because they live indoors?


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Well you live in Oklahoma which according to the heartworm maps is a red state and those are based off of what vet clinics see, not shelters. So I would assume even pet dogs have high exposure to heartworm. 

NJ is a green state, or light coral depending on which map you look at, which means it's rare. I'm sure that stray dogs in jersey probably still come up positive here as well but it's based off of what vet clinics see and they just don't see a lot of cases. 

So I'm just curious to see what vets see on a regular basis. I pretty much got told by a vet to not worry about heartworm cause he's never even seen a case where I live. I still give meds but I'm able to feel confident in looking for other alternatives to the typical every month deal.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

xoxluvablexox said:


> Everyone keeps talking about strays but what about actual pets? They're not exactly living the same lifestyle. Strays are consistently out in the environment. I can tell you right now my dog spends the majority of his time inside especially at night when the mosquitoes are at the worst.
> 
> *I have to put on mosquito repellent just to take the dogs out for a potty break. We usually spend several hours outside every evening when mosquitoes are most active (around dusk), lots of pet dogs go camping or spend entire days outside hiking etc *
> 
> ...


I don't really think the risk is much lower for a pet dog that isn't on HW prevention than for a stray that isn't on HW prevention.


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## Aska (Jun 9, 2013)

Here we don't have heartworms, thanks to our quarantine centre. There has one dog died from heartworms here, but it died in the quarantine.

BUT, we're always told "We have the quarantine centre because we don't want to spread things like heartworms and kill all the dogs it gets in. It will happen if the quarantine goes."

Will it though?


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Where do you live? That's crazy, in a good way, I've just never heard of such a thing. It should prevent the spread of disease because a mosquitoe needs to bite a dog that's heartworm positive to spread the disease. I've just never heard of such a thing before. 

It's amazing how some places are more advanced in certain ways then America. There's some places that spray for mosquitoes, I know Egypt does it. Of course people have to stay in doors with the windows shut because it's toxic but it's better then everyone getting Malaria. I know they have a lot of stray dogs over there as well. I wonder if heartworm exist or is even prevalent over there.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

How do you quarantine mosquitoes?


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

I hate that the article calls this a scam. It isn't. In Florida we do year round prevention here. After working at vet clinics and seeing heartworm positive dogs suffer the effects of heartworm disease, that's not a risk I am willing to take living here. I left the clinic I was at in March. We had 3 dogs come up positive that I can remember off hand since the start of the year (there could have been more, but there are 3 in particular I remember). Those were all pets, not strays. One was a Chinese Crested who obviously never spent much time outside and when she did the dog was always wearing some kind of clothes to protect her from the sun. Her owner had her about a year and a half and she was supposedly negative when she got her (I don't know that we had any proof of a test, however she could have testes negative and still had heartworms if it had been less than six months since she was infected) and the owner came in and dosed her once a month with prevention. She came up a high positive and was coughing a little. So, even though the owner was unknowingly using the "safer" slow kill method, the dog was already showing symptoms of the disease, so she was treated with Immiticide. 

Anyways, even though we treat year round here in Florida, I was always under the impression that other places treated according to the climate they lived in. The article left me with the impression that vets all over the States are prescribing year round prevention. I think that if you asked anyone who has had a dog come up positive, no matter where they lived, they wouldn't not call heartworm prevention a "scam".


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## Aska (Jun 9, 2013)

xoxluvablexox said:


> Where do you live? That's crazy, in a good way, I've just never heard of such a thing. It should prevent the spread of disease because a mosquitoe needs to bite a dog that's heartworm positive to spread the disease. I've just never heard of such a thing before.
> 
> It's amazing how some places are more advanced in certain ways then America. There's some places that spray for mosquitoes, I know Egypt does it. Of course people have to stay in doors with the windows shut because it's toxic but it's better then everyone getting Malaria. I know they have a lot of stray dogs over there as well. I wonder if heartworm exist or is even prevalent over there.


I honestly don't understand how the owner of the centre thing- they also thank themselves for the fact we don't have ticks- WHICH WE DO! They've also thanked themselves for the fact we don't have mites... but oh, WE DO. 
Everyone loved their work at first, but there's a breeding here that does import dogs illegally without going through the quarantine process and thanks to them, we have it all. 

At least no one has ever been diagnosed with the lime disease here, even though we have bunch of ticks.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

zhaor said:


> How do you quarantine mosquitoes?


You quarantine dogs that enter the area, and make sure they are not HW+. If no animals are HW+ it can't be spread. Mosquitoes have to bite an infected animal.


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Aska said:


> I honestly don't understand how the owner of the centre thing- they also thank themselves for the fact we don't have ticks- WHICH WE DO! They've also thanked themselves for the fact we don't have mites... but oh, WE DO.
> Everyone loved their work at first, but there's a breeding here that does import dogs illegally without going through the quarantine process and thanks to them, we have it all.
> 
> At least no one has ever been diagnosed with the lime disease here, even though we have bunch of ticks.


I think it's probably pretty hard to prevent Ticks and mites from entering a country. Even with how good some countries can be about checking shipments from other countries bugs are still getting in. I can tell you right now, there some weird bug that I never saw in my life until only a few years ago. It's called a camel back cricket our something. Looks like a cross between a spider and a cricket. They jump FAR. They're water bugs and stay in the basement. Actually they look eerily similar to this alien bug from a space movie I saw years ago. I don't know where they came from but they got into this country somehow and their absolutely terrifying.

Ladyshadowhollyjc: 

That's so sad. She gave the dog monthly treatment and it still came up positive? Is that common down south? I did read on dogaware.com that some heartworm meds have stopped being as effective as they had been previously. That's pretty scary.

Sorry, one more question. I've never looked into it but I'm wondering if southern states spray for mosquitoes? I know that some states spray if there's a bug problem. Last year Jersey was overrun by stink bugs and they were seriously damaging crops. They're not a problem this year so I'm pretty sure they sprayed something, like flew over and released some sort of chemical, to get rid of them. 

I think they should do something like that if mosquitoes are really such an issue. There's some people that believe that mosquitoes might carry Lyme's. They obviously are disease carriers. So not just for the safety of dogs but people it would probably be rally beneficial. In Egypt they drive around with trucks a release the chemicals from the back of trucks and just warn people to stay inside for a few hours.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

xoxluvablexox said:


> How many people actual know how many PET dogs in their home town go into the vet and come up positive for heartworm?


All 16 cases (now 17 since we had another one come in today) that I posted about last night were pets, they were not strays. They all had been with their owners for at least 2 years.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I am lucky where I live in Northern B.C. as we have no heartworm and our ticks do not carry Lyme disease and we do not have fleas. We have lice but they are very easy to get rid of. Some Vets still sell stuff to kill fleas and test for heartworm so at least if it did spread this far, we would probably have some warning. Our nights do get cold even in the hottest part of the summer it usually goes down to 50 or less and we have sub-zero weather in the winter. (at least six months).


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

xoxluvablexox said:


> Ladyshadowhollyjc:
> 
> That's so sad. She gave the dog monthly treatment and it still came up positive? Is that common down south? I did read on dogaware.com that some heartworm meds have stopped being as effective as they had been previously. That's pretty scary.
> 
> ...


Yeah, she was one of our clients that came in and bought a dose each month instead of buying a large quantity at once, so I am pretty positive she was giving it when she bought it. The dog was adopted from a rescue, and was tested by the rescue and was supposed to have been negative. Our vet thinks the rescue made an error or lied about the original results, or the dog was tested too soon after being bit my an infected mosquito. Either way, it was quite alarming to us that after so long on prevention, the dog was a high positive. I do believe she was on Heartgard, but I am not totally positive. I know there were some studies about Ivermectin losing its potency in certain regions, but we had hundreds of dogs (my own included) that were on Heartgard their whole lives and haven't come up positive... the one case where the dog came up positive there was question about the history of that dog when she started the prevention. 

They do spray here for mosquitoes, but not nearly as often as they need to IMO. I'm not even sure how often it's done, but I just notice every now and then theres a small notice in the paper saying they will be spraying X location at X date and time. It seems like in our area they just do areas where theres lots of free standing water and those places are usually out in the middle of no where where not many people live. It may be different in other areas, but thats what it seems like here. I will say, Lyme disease isn't something we saw at either vet clinic I worked at, and we never recommended (or even stocked) the vaccine. We always associated that as a disease that came from ticks up North, not mosquitoes.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Kyllobernese said:


> I am lucky where I live in Northern B.C. as we have no heartworm and our ticks do not carry Lyme disease and we do not have fleas. We have lice but they are very easy to get rid of. Some Vets still sell stuff to kill fleas and test for heartworm so at least if it did spread this far, we would probably have some warning. Our nights do get cold even in the hottest part of the summer it usually goes down to 50 or less and we have sub-zero weather in the winter. (at least six months).


It seems the problem is hugely dependent on area and prevalence.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Damon'sMom said:


> All 16 cases (now 17 since we had another one come in today) that I posted about last night were pets, they were not strays. They all had been with their owners for at least 2 years.


Have you seen any cases that were on prevention that were positive?


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> Yeah, she was one of our clients that came in and bought a dose each month instead of buying a large quantity at once, so I am pretty positive she was giving it when she bought it. The dog was adopted from a rescue, and was tested by the rescue and was supposed to have been negative. Our vet thinks the rescue made an error or lied about the original results, or the dog was tested too soon after being bit my an infected mosquito. Either way, it was quite alarming to us that after so long on prevention, the dog was a high positive. I do believe she was on Heartgard, but I am not totally positive. I know there were some studies about Ivermectin losing its potency in certain regions, but we had hundreds of dogs (my own included) that were on Heartgard their whole lives and haven't come up positive... the one case where the dog came up positive there was question about the history of that dog when she started the prevention.
> 
> They do spray here for mosquitoes, but not nearly as often as they need to IMO. I'm not even sure how often it's done, but I just notice every now and then theres a small notice in the paper saying they will be spraying X location at X date and time. It seems like in our area they just do areas where theres lots of free standing water and those places are usually out in the middle of no where where not many people live. It may be different in other areas, but thats what it seems like here. I will say, Lyme disease isn't something we saw at either vet clinic I worked at, and we never recommended (or even stocked) the vaccine. We always associated that as a disease that came from ticks up North, not mosquitoes.


I had used heartgard for over 15 years, triheart, without a problem until recently. Several dogs are coming up positive around the Mississippi river area. I haven't heard of any in Florida, however if dogs from this area go elsewhere, heartgard is not going to be effective.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

juliemule said:


> Have you seen any cases that were on prevention that were positive?


6 out of the 17 had been on prevention (per our records and what the owners stated) for over a year or so.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3406940/

Here is one link discussing the MP3 strain that is resistant.



Damon'sMom said:


> 6 out of the 17 had been on prevention (per our records and what the owners stated) for over a year or so.


 Ivermectin based prevention?


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

juliemule said:


> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3406940/
> 
> Here is one link discussing the MP3 strain that is resistant.
> 
> ...


Yes HeartGard Plus


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Damon'sMom said:


> Yes HeartGard Plus



I'm afraid the strain is spreading. Unless all the dogs came from the south. I've had four total positive, and I know they had not missed a dose. At first it was thought to be noncompliance, now they are learning that's not the issue. I've switched to proheart for now.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

juliemule said:


> I'm afraid the strain is spreading. Unless all the dogs came from the south. I've had four total positive, and I know they had not missed a dose. At first it was thought to be noncompliance, now they are learning that's not the issue. I've switched to proheart for now.


So am I. Our Drs have been talking about that for a while now. As far as I have been told by the clients none have traveled south or left the state within the year. (We do ask if they have been out of state and or the country when they come up positive.) I have been thinking about switching I just don't know yet.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I am very 'minimal'. I don't do any more vaccines other than what is required by law, I don't load him up with flea/tick chemicals every month... but heartworm I DON'T mess with. No reason not to. The drugs are proven to be very safe, and why take the risk?


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I am very 'minimal'. I don't do any more vaccines other than what is required by law, I don't load him up with flea/tick chemicals every month... but heartworm I DON'T mess with. No reason not to. The drugs are proven to be very safe, and why take the risk?


It's kind of the opposite for me. My dogs already had Lyme's and anaplasmosis. The vet I take my dog to even has Lyme's and all his dogs have gotten it when with the use of topical preventatives. So even though heartworm isn't really a problem here and I feel confident about my heartworm prevention plan. With ticks though it's a pain. My dogs shaved down now so I haven't put anything on him this month since I check him over every day but before he got groomed I put something on him because there's just too many ticks.

I have a sister with Lyme's and it's horrible. There's some days where she can barely get out of bed. It's pretty ridiculous how these things exist. Seriously, tell me what purpose ticks and mosquitoes have in life except to be annoying disease carriers. I just don't understand why they exist.

So, from reading the above post. Heartguard doesn't seem to be working in some areas. That's worrisome. Is there a good chance that wouldn't be the case for something like Sentinel? That's what I just switched my dog over to and I'm just curious since I have family in the south. I wouldn't want to take him somewhere that had a higher rate of heartworm and then give him something that's not going to do anything.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

xoxluvablexox said:


> It's kind of the opposite for me. My dogs already had Lyme's and anaplasmosis. The vet I take my dog to even has Lyme's and all his dogs have gotten it when with the use of topical preventatives. So even though heartworm isn't really a problem here and I feel confident about my heartworm prevention plan. With ticks though it's a pain. My dogs shaved down now so I haven't put anything on him this month since I check him over every day but before he got groomed I put something on him because there's just too many ticks.
> 
> I have a sister with Lyme's and it's horrible. There's some days where she can barely get out of bed. It's pretty ridiculous how these things exist. Seriously, tell me what purpose ticks and mosquitoes have in life except to be annoying disease carriers. I just don't understand why they exist.
> 
> So, from reading the above post. Heartguard doesn't seem to be working in some areas. That's worrisome. Is there a good chance that wouldn't be the case for something like Sentinel? That's what I just switched my dog over to and I'm just curious since I have family in the south. I wouldn't want to take him somewhere that had a higher rate of heartworm and then give him something that's not going to do anything.


The only one I know of is ivermectin based products, and only in the Mississippi valley region. However, mosquitoes travel, dogs travel, so if a dog visits or lives here, becomes infected, travels to anywhere mosquitoes are present, how can the MP3 not infect other areas. 

I travel with my dogs often, we leave the state on searches. The way preventions work, is by deworming the dog, actually killing the heartworm in the microfilaria stage, so its very possible.


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## SCbucky (Jul 11, 2013)

I was going to ask... So, the "south" they are talking about is the Mississippi Delta? I'm in the SC lowcountry and I can't go outside at night without getting toted off. Especially with all of the rain we've gotten this summer... Some of the biggest Mosquitos I've ever seen!

We had a yellow lab years ago that was a rescue and HW+ when we got her. The first vet we visited said they were too advanced to treat. We went elsewhere, and although it was tough to keep a two year old lab calm for that long and she had some damage, she also lived a long and happy 12 years. All of that said, I give a preventative monthly, mostly out of fear of having to go through that again.

Also, some questions. Does anyone use Trifexis? My vet recently recommended it with the new puppy, but I've always used Heartguard. And I'm wondering if anyone knows why it's supposed to be so much better?

Last question. I read somewhere that Aussies have a sensitivity to ivermectin. Do they have a sudden reaction, or is it something that happens gradually? And what do you look for without having a genetic test?


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

xoxluvablexox said:


> Everyone keeps talking about strays but what about actual pets? They're not exactly living the same lifestyle. Strays are consistently out in the environment. I can tell you right now my dog spends the majority of his time inside especially at night when the mosquitoes are at the worst.
> 
> How many people actual know how many PET dogs in their home town go into the vet and come up positive for heartworm?
> 
> ...


Mosquitos don't ask to come inside my house. They come right on in, uninvited, and they bring their friends, too! 

Then they bite my dogs (or cats), thereby infecting them with tiny baby heartworms.

That being said, StiXxX was HW+ when we got him, and he was treated with Immiticide. He had a rough time with it. It's painful, and who wants to have limited activity for 6 weeks afterwards? Gunnar (recently adopted) also tested HW+ (after testing negative in April), so he'll start treatment in September after we get back from vacation. I need to retest Kaia as well.

I use Ivermectin monthly. I split a 50ml, $50 bottle with a coworker, so I paid only $25. I use less than 0.1ml/month to treat all five of my dogs. Do some quick math and calculate what I spend per month to keep them all safe.


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

SCbucky said:


> I was going to ask... So, the "south" they are talking about is the Mississippi Delta? I'm in the SC lowcountry and I can't go outside at night without getting toted off. Especially with all of the rain we've gotten this summer... Some of the biggest Mosquitos I've ever seen!
> 
> We had a yellow lab years ago that was a rescue and HW+ when we got her. The first vet we visited said they were too advanced to treat. We went elsewhere, and although it was tough to keep a two year old lab calm for that long and she had some damage, she also lived a long and happy 12 years. All of that said, I give a preventative monthly, mostly out of fear of having to go through that again.
> 
> ...


I grew up in Charleston... left four years ago, and can't wait to come back.  I miss it there so bad! 

Trifexis is a great product; it's the active ingredient in Interceptor (milbemycin oxime) + Comfortis (spinosad). It's a monthly chew that covers HW disease and fleas. If it weren't cost prohibitive for 5 dogs (3 of which are >70#), I'd use it. I have used it in the past and I love it. Safe + effective. Just make sure to give it with a full meal, or else it can cause some vomiting.

Aussies and other collie types (although we are learning that it's not only those type breeds anymore) can have a genetic mutation (MDR1) that causes a sensitivity to many drugs, including ivermectin, although the dosage for ivermectin as HW preventative is usually low enough that it won't cause problems; most of the symptoms are neurologic, I believe. There is a test done by Washington State's veterinary school, and many savvy owners choose to test for it as a precaution.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Around here I never gave any heartworm prevention until this year. My vet told me he'd seen a number of cases of local dogs that came back heartworm positive. So now I'm giving them Interceptor for the 4 summer months or if we travel. The problem is that my dogs are both MDR1 mu/mu. They could theoretically take heartworm preventative doses of ivermectin, but can't take the treatment doses.

The big worry is that Interceptor is no longer being made. (My stash is expired by about 6 months, which I feel is still good) There's a huge discussion in the collie comunity about what to give our dogs now.

In any case, it's worth it to me to give prevention for even a small chance of contracting heartworm because my dogs couldn't survive the treatment.

BTW, the Washington State vet school website has a lot of info on MDR1 as well as the list of meds that can be a problem in a mu/mu dog. The test is a simple buccal smear and costs @ $60.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Rowdy- wouldn't Trifexis work for MDR1 mu/mu dogs? 

I'm thinking to switch to it after my Tri-Heart pack runs out since it was so convenient using it on the foster dogs and Chester was on Interceptor before it was discontinued so I know he tolerates the active ingredient.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

DD had to switch to Trifexis when she moved to TX, from Sentinel. She says the Trifexis has been bombproof so far for fleas. Her dog yakked the first dose and she's learned to give it with a meal, and in the dog's crate! According to the website Trifexis was only available in a few states when I looked, as I was not familiar with it and hesitant that she should give it. Hopefully we'll never have to know (and just assume) that it is working for HW as well as the fleas. Her vet gave her the first 3 doses as free samples, then he sells it for $20/month. There are coupons online but I think the deal was due to expire soon, so your mileage may vary.


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## SCbucky (Jul 11, 2013)

MonicaBH said:


> I grew up in Charleston... left four years ago, and can't wait to come back.  I miss it there so bad! .


My husband grew up here. I couldn't pry him away if I wanted to! We both love it.
Thanks for the info.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Shell said:


> Rowdy- wouldn't Trifexis work for MDR1 mu/mu dogs?
> 
> I'm thinking to switch to it after my Tri-Heart pack runs out since it was so convenient using it on the foster dogs and Chester was on Interceptor before it was discontinued so I know he tolerates the active ingredient.


It's probably fine, but people with mu/mu dogs are leery of any new medication. The genetic defect makes it difficult for certain medications to be transported out of the CSF. In the case of ivermectin, it can cause intractable seizures leading to the dog's death. So, while most people think the Spinosad is OK, no one wants to find out that it's not.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Rowdy said:


> It's probably fine, but people with mu/mu dogs are leery of any new medication. The genetic defect makes it difficult for certain medications to be transported out of the CSF. In the case of ivermectin, it can cause intractable seizures leading to the dog's death. So, while most people think the Spinosad is OK, no one wants to find out that it's not.


That makes sense. I'd never seen any warning related to Comfortis (spinosad) so I was thinking the mu/mu dogs wouldn't be affected by it. Since none of the dogs I deal with are herding breeds, I am aware of the issue but it isn't a pressing problem.

Aside from the mu/mu question, I do think it is a very good option, especially for people wanting to avoid topicals (multiple dogs or cats or small children around) and much better than Sentinel for preventing fleas.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Shell said:


> That makes sense. I'd never seen any warning related to Comfortis (spinosad) so I was thinking the mu/mu dogs wouldn't be affected by it. Since none of the dogs I deal with are herding breeds, I am aware of the issue but it isn't a pressing problem.
> 
> Aside from the mu/mu question, I do think it is a very good option, especially for people wanting to avoid topicals (multiple dogs or cats or small children around) and much better than Sentinel for preventing fleas.


It's probably what I'll got to when my current stash runs out.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

Curing heartworm disease CAN be difficult. Yes for some cases you can use low doses of ivermectin i have seen that work but it is still no joke. Worms dieing in the blood stream and breaking apart is a real concern. people have strokes or die from tiny blood clots moving into the wrong areas.. So dieing worm bits is def a concern. I would rather prevent it from happening...also its nice that they also deworm roundworms hookworms and tape worms every month which many dogs frequently pick up from fromping around in the yard...I test a lot of fecal samples this year about 80% of them have round worm eggs and they are using HW meds! so they have to be ingesting them between doses.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

SCbucky said:


> I was going to ask... So, the "south" they are talking about is the Mississippi Delta? I'm in the SC lowcountry and I can't go outside at night without getting toted off. Especially with all of the rain we've gotten this summer... Some of the biggest Mosquitos I've ever seen!
> 
> We had a yellow lab years ago that was a rescue and HW+ when we got her. The first vet we visited said they were too advanced to treat. We went elsewhere, and although it was tough to keep a two year old lab calm for that long and she had some damage, she also lived a long and happy 12 years. All of that said, I give a preventative monthly, mostly out of fear of having to go through that again.
> 
> ...


Not the delta area anymore, I'm in Tennessee, over 100 miles feom the Mississippi river itself.


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