# New Puppy, Won't Walk on Leash, Challenges My Authority...



## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum, but not new to dogs, or the breed of dog that I currently own. Last week I got an 8 week old Cairn Terrier puppy, who has turned out to be the spawn of satan, but I do enjoy her a lot and love her to death.

We've been having some problems. The first one would be walking on the leash. I live in a condo and it's imperative that she learn this skill quickly. I have the leash on her for her waking hours and she drags it along, I walk with her by my side and she drags it, I pick it up, we walk some more and then BAM she hits a brick wall and refuses to go forward. My vet suggested I try walking in the direction she's looking, or the other way, but this doesn't work either, she refuses to move in any direction. Sometimes I can't even get her to move forward after the leash has been dropped. So now I pick her up, and redirect her attention and see if we can continue on, or I drop the leash, walk away and call her, and reward her for coming when called. She does so poorly on the leash that we can't even make it around the small pond where I live in 30 minutes. Any tips?

The other issue I'm having is that she really challenges me when I punish her. She barks, growls and bites. If she's chewing on something I give her a quick squirt with bitter spray and she goes bonkers. (this is when she's chewing on cords) When she's chewing on other things, like a shoe, I always redirect her to a toy and she seems to be catching on, but it's the complete stubbornness that has me worried.

I realize she's only 8 weeks old, but I also realize she's a terrier and these are things that we need to constantly be working on so if anyone has any tips for me they would be greatly appreciated.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

The bitter spray you're talking about, is that the bitter apple spray? It is designed to spray on items that you don't want the dog to chew, furniture, etc., not directly into the dog's face.....
So, of course, she's going to go bonkers. Spray it on the cords not her.

I think you're expecting a bit much of an 8 month old. She's not being stubborn, she's being a very young baby dog who hasn't yet learned what you expect of her. I don't mean to say that you shouldn't start working on things like chewing, but, do it with lots of patience. 

One good thing that works well for many cases is distraction. So, if she chews on something you don't want her chewing on, you could redirect with a toy, but, you could also distract her by asking for a incompatible behavior, like "sit" or "down". (Gives you a reason to start gradually working on those!  ). If you ask a few commands of her, she can't really continue to chew, and then, chewing isn't first and foremost on her mind, it's on the mini-training session you've started.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

I definitely understand where you're coming from, however the advice to spray her with the spray (diluted with water) comes from a professional dog trainer. One cannot reasonably predict what the puppy will chew on and the behavior needs to be corrected IMMEDIATELY as the learning time for a dog is short in relation to what's happened. After that I spray the area with the undiluted bitter spray. 

I am plenty patient with my puppy, the chewing is the LEAST of my concerns, I understand she's teething and biting is one of the only languages she knows. I am always redirecting her to chew on a toy and then we are learning fetch, come and sit as distraction techniques, I do the same thing when she's on the leash and she very responsive to these things.

My main concern is the walking on the leash. As I said, this is a skill that I need her to learn as I live in a condo and walking is an essential part of our every day potty training.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

What do you mean by punish? Punish could be anything from hitting your puppy to withholding attention and anything in between. Be specific, please. 

Do what you want, but I consider spraying an 8 week old puppy in the face with bitter apple spray (even diluted) a huge no-no and not something I would ever do. One reason I would not want to do this is because if your puppy is chewing on something inappropriate, then the puppy has not learned what is appropriate to chew on. This is a baby, an infant. You would not spray vinegar in a human baby's face for drooling on a favorite shirt.

In effect, this punishment seems random and unwarranted to the puppy and you may end up really hurting your bond with her. Professional dog trainer or not, it is your puppy and you should decide what you feel comfortable with and not do it just because a “professional trainer” has told you to do. Anyone can call themselves a professional trainer and there are a wide assortment of methods used to train dogs, some using lots of aversives and some not. I would look into clicker training and just see what it is about. 

Imagine if you were in a foreign country and didn't speak the language. Everytime you crossed your legs they came up and smacked you. You may never realize what they are correcting you for. All you will really learn is that when they come up to you, you should cower and be afraid because they might hit you.

As far as walking on the leash, is she on a collar or harness? How big is the leash? What surfaces does she walk on? Is she having trouble on a certain surface like cement versus grass? About how long into the walk does she stop? You think you may be going too far for her at this time and she is simply saying “I’m tired”? Are you constantly keeping the leash tight or pulling her around? 

I would try taking some twine and make it a good 10ft long. Tie some knots in it. Take her for a walk with the twine dragging around so it feels like she is off leash but you have the opportunity to step on it to stop her if she starts wandering too far (if this is safe to do in the area). See how long she walks while she thinks you don’t have the leash. She go further? If so, maybe it’s something about what you’re doing with the leash. If she stops at the same place, well maybe she is done and tired. 

8 weeks is a baby. 30 min walks are waaaay too long. She is most likely getting tired and forcing her to keep going can end up ruining your bond with her. She is a baby and shouldn't have any forced exercise. Outside breaks to pee/poop are good, as is free play where she can stop when she is tired. Forcing her to go on 30 minute walks is crazy and you can end up causing her real harm in her joints that will affect her when she is older.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Not every suggestion from every trainer is a good suggestion. IMO, this is one suggestion I'd toss. You're right, you can't predict when a dog will choose to chew on something they shouldn't chew on, and you can't redirect if you're not there to see it. If you spray the cords, you just have to then re-apply on a regular basis until she _expects_ it to taste yucky. If she expects it to taste yucky, then, it's worked. OR, you can do what we did, and get a "sleeve" for our cords at an electronics store.

It does say on the label not to spray in the eyes. Even diluted I'd still not do it.

Maybe someone else will chime in on the walking issue as I have never owned or trained a dog that wouldn't walk....sorry, can't help you there...


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

I never said anything about punishing my puppy. I simply redirect her attention when she's chewing, or if she's being really naughty - say pulling on a curtain I simply shout "no!" and then redirect her attention and praise her when she starts playing with her toy. 

There's a difference between drooling and chewing, specifically electrical wires. I had a mishap with my older dog when she was a puppy biting into a printer cord, catching current and being severely electrocuted. This is something I want to NEVER repeat, my dog could have died had I not been sitting right there and unplugged the cord. She needs to learn that chewing on cords is not acceptable, and as I said, I cannot possibly predict every cord she's going to chew on in order to spray it with the bitter spray. The only time I squirt her is when she is chewing on an electrical wire and I KNOW she will move before I can get to her and attempt to correct this behavior, this is my option. I'm sorry if you disagree and you're welcome to, but as I said, it's what a professional - not just any person off the street calling them a professional - but a professional highly recommended from my veterinary clinic. Everyone has different methods for training a dog and several of them are successful. I am not abusing my puppy or mistreating my puppy. She is responsive to the quick squirt (btw, this is something I've only done *twice*, and as I previously stated I then spray the cord she was chewing on with the spray and it doesn't happen again). Most of my cords are sprayed, but living in a studio it's not easy or plausible to spray down every cord. 

You are acting like I'm abusing my puppy, and I'm not. I am not hitting my puppy, and never would.

Moving on to the leash issue. I believe it's a 4 - 5 foot leash and it's extremely light. I bought it with the intention that she would drag it around and I did not want it to weigh her down. I agree with you, 30 minutes is much too long of a walk for an 8 week old puppy and I'm not trying to walk her for 30 minutes, I'm trying to walk her around the pond and her refusal to move forward is what delays these walks. It shouldn't take more than 10 minutes. 

Right now I'm using a collar, I do not pull her when she stops be simply stop with her and try to walk in the direction that she's looking, or I drop the leash, walk a few feet away and call her to me trying to encourage her to move forward. When I do this I always reward her with a treat and when she is walking along on the leash I always praise her. When we walk with the leash I always make sure it's slack as she resists when it's not and allow her to do her exploring before encouraging her to walk on.

I have done exactly what you suggested but with the leash and she'll go for 20 minutes at least walking around and seeing the sights (including time to stop and sniff). The surface we are walking on is concrete and grass, and she has no issue on either. She tends to stop when she gets distracted by something, anything, and then refuses to move forward, backward, or sideways, when it's obvious to me she's had enough I always pick her up and bring her inside.

To be quite honest, I really do not appreciate what I feel are accusations of me mistreating my puppy. I think if you go back and reread what I wrote you'll see that's not what is happening at all. I am trying to train my puppy to walk on the leash to aid in potty training as *I live in a condo*, leashes are required by the HOA. I also take her outside, leash on and sit in the grass and play with her until she's done, trying to desensitize her to the leash and outside distractions in general. She will walk along without it, but there are times where she'll run away from me and I'm worried about her encountering a raccoon or skunk. 

All I am trying to do is start to train her to be a well mannered puppy and walk on the leash as required by my HOA. BTW, the vet said in no way, shape or form, is she too young to walk on the leash or to comprehend it, I explicitly asked him this question.


ETA: This is NOT Bitter Apple spray, it's another brand which I could provide when I get home, and yes, I've read the label.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

You DID mention punishing her in your original post, go back and read it. You said "The other issue I'm having is that she really challenges me when I punish her."

And, part of your original post said she "goes bonkers" when you spray her. NOW you're saying she is responsive to the quick squirt and you've only done it twice. Also, in your first post you didn't mention you were diluting the spray. All in all, this is a different picture than you painted in your original post. You asked for opinions, and we're giving you our opinions based on your original post. 

My opinion is, she's going bonkers when you spray her because it hurts or is very uncomfortable. There are many professionals that come highly recommended that have ideas I would not go along with, and this is one. I am not saying this person is not a qualified trainer, just saying, I don't agree with his/her methods on this one. Agree to disagree.

As for my own posts, those are all I can speak of, I only gave you my own personal beliefs on spraying at the dog. I personally don't believe in using aversives, especially on a puppy so young as 8-9 weeks. I NEVER accused you of anything. I gave my opinion on the advice given to you by the trainer (saying I didn't agree and wouldn't follow it, as not every suggestion from a trainer is a good one, or will work for every dog). I also said I thought you were expecting too much from an 8 week old, still NOT an accusation.

If you don't like our advice, or agree with our opinion, that's fine. Maybe you'll get some advice you do find helpful. Just don't like being accused of making accusations I didn't make.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

In your original post you made vague statements and I am trying to find out what the specifics are. I never said you are beating your puppy. I am asking what punishments you use and how you use them. If you want to use such strong aversives on your infant puppy, go for it. I'm just saying that those methods can end up doing more harm then good. 

As far as chewing, an alternate suggestion is putting her in the crate when you cant watch her. While you are doing stuff around the house, tie a leash to her collar and the other end to your waist. This acts like an umbilical cord so you can always watch her as you are doing your own thing. 

Honestly, I would say she is doing fine. If she doesn't want to walk around, why force her? She is 8 weeks old. As she grows and matures she will inevitably be able to go out for longer and longer walks. While it is important to get exercise, I don't think you can effectively walk an 8 week old puppy like you can with an adult. Doing what you are doing I think is fine for now. Taking her out, letting her explore a bit, good positive interactions, and then as she gets older you can start expecting more out of her. 

How long have you had her? Not too long, I assume? It may be with time your bond will grow and she will be much more happy to go on longer walks. 

I guess what I want to know is, in one statement, what do you specifically want from her? I am getting the impression that she isn't refusing the leash totally. She just doesn't want to go anywhere sometimes. Why do you want to make her?


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## Jenn~n~Luke (Aug 20, 2010)

Is there any particular reason that this pup has to learn how to walk perfectly on leash at EIGHT weeks old, in order to use the washroom? Where is there a rule that states a dog must perform a perfect heel in order to void itself outside? Forgive me but I'm not getting it. To be frustrated with a pup at only eight or nine weeks old over things that take some dogs up to a year to perfect, doesn't bode well in my opinion, and if that upsets you, so be it. Your vet may believe that eight weeks is old enough, but NOT all dogs learn at the same pace, nor do they all learn by using the same methods. If you are showing even half as much frustration with your pup, as your original post here has shown, then it's no wonder the poor thing is confused. They aren't all born knowing what to do. Proper leash etiquette can take a while to learn, that's just fact. Expecting too much too soon will only leave you farther behind than you would be if you'd try to have realistic expectations.

If she is getting to the cords, restrict her access so that she can't get at them. A pup that age should not be getting full reign of the house unless you can supervise and make sure she's not getting into things that could be dangerous to her. Set up a smaller area in the middle of the room perhaps, an X pen, use baby gates....even an umbilical would be better than spraying her in the face and yelling NO. 

In the meantime get a longer lead. Keep using treats and tons of praise every time she walks with you while on that lead. Four feet is too short if you are dropping it to the ground, she doesn't have to go far before you have to chase her to get the leash back. With a long lead, she can't escape or go too far without you reaching down and grabbing it. I agree with doxiemommy...you might not like the advice but you are going to be hard pressed to find anyone in this forum who's going to agree with spraying ANYTHING in the face of an INFANT pup who has no real understanding of right and wrong. Anything she is getting into, she is getting into BECAUSE you are not preventing it in the first place. That isn't her fault


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

Instead of taking what I said out of context, continue to read what I wrote.



Ari Bear said:


> ...The other issue I'm having is that she really challenges me *when I punish her. She barks, growls and bites. If she's chewing on something I give her a quick squirt with bitter spray and she goes bonkers.* (this is when she's chewing on cords) When she's chewing on other things, like a shoe, I always redirect her to a toy and she seems to be catching on, but it's the complete stubbornness that has me worried.
> 
> *I realize she's only 8 weeks old*, but I also realize *she's a terrier *and *these are things that we need to constantly be working on* so if anyone has any tips for me they would be greatly appreciated.


However, she doesn't continue to chew the object in question, she just barks at me.



All I want from her is to have a successful walk on the leash so I can potty train my puppy. We are very bonded, I've had her several weeks. She follows me everywhere. 


This is far from my first puppy. And also not my first terrier, which does have different training requirements than other dogs, the first one being consistancy. 

I've gotta ask you, have YOU ever had a terrier?

Other thank the not walking on a leash, and chewing and then barking at me when I correct her, either with the spray which I said I've done twice or verbally telling her no, she's a great puppy. Comes when she's called, sits, doesn't cry in her crate ... 

However, I will state again, I live in a CONDO, she needs to be able to walk on the leash so I can potty train her as I have Home Owner Association rules that I HAVE to follow. Unfortuntely there's no rule that says "puppies don't have to be on a leash" it says ALL dogs must be on a leash at all times. *I have to follow the rules of the HOA.* 

If anyone has some constructive advice on how to get my pup to walk more than twenty feet on the leash I'd appreciate it, otherwise I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing. It worked with my last Cairn, who is also extremely bonded to me.

If people in this forum are going to grow hysterical because I sprayed my puppy twice while chewing on a cord WHICH COULD HAVE KILLED HER, obviously this is not the forum for me. I'll just stick with the professional trainer and vetranarians advice. 


Ugh, I'll say it again, THERE IS A RULE SAYING SHE HAS TO WALK ON A LEASH. I don't expect her to heal, I expect her to come along though and not stand in one spot for 10 minutes. I live in a condo and have a Home Owner's Association set of rules I have to follow, if I don't I can be fined $1,000 PER OCCURANCE. So yes, she has to walk on a leash at 8 weeks. My vet said this is not unreasonable by any means.

The only reason I'm frustrated in my posts is that you all are not realizing the constrants I'm under. She HAS to be on a leash to be outside where I live. Simple as that. If you don't understand that, right a letter to the home owners association. 

I do not appreciate being treated like I'm doing some gross injustice to my puppy, all of these things I've discussed with my vet prior to even posting here, and quite frankly, he's far more qualified than the majority of the posters here I would assume. 

I live in a condo and not every aspect of it can be puppy proofed, I keep her away from what I can and almost always have her on a leash in my home attached to a chair, however I do allow her to find places where she's comfortable - like when she wants to go to her crate to take a nap. To deprive her of this would be cruel. 

While it might not be her fault that she's exposed to things like curtains, rugs, and some cords, eventually she will be trusted in the apartment alone and needs to learn the boundaries. I do use baby gates and she is under constant supervision.

I also have a play pen for her for when she needs to be confined but not in her crate, it gives her more room to play and romp around.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

No on here has stated that you should take the puppy off the leash. I am not sure where that is coming from. We are saying, have her on a longer leash. Go for shorter walks where she is basically just allowed to do her own thing, ie. there is no set walk. Is this what you are arguing with? Honestly, I am a little bit lost. 

You ask for advice and we came to give it to you. Instead of asking us why we recommend that, instead of asking us how that is different and why it may or may not be better, you are saying we don't know what we are talking about. 

If you don't want to consider outside advice then please go back to your "professional trainer" and vet and raise your puppy the way you want to. This forum harbors many different types of people with many, many different backgrounds of dog training and management. Everyone also has differing opinions on how to train. However, when it comes to training, there is a general consensus on this board (not for everyone, but for a lot of people that I have seen) that you do not correct a puppy for anything. You redirect. If this does not follow your philosophy, then please follow your own, but do not say we do not understand anything about your situation because that is a gross understatement.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Terriers are known to respond very badly to punishment. Why don't you teach her what you want her to do instead, like pulling her away from the cords and putting a suitable toy in her mouth? Praise and reward whenever she shows interest in the toys, and manage her so that she can't get to the cords. If you prevent bad habits from forming now, she won't show any interest in the cords as an adult either. Management means to either move the cords out of reach, leash her to you so she can't get to them, or put her in a play pen when you can't supervise her. In her playpen she should of course have suitable toys to chew on.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

What if I told you I was a professional dog trainer and told you why you're going about things wrong. Would that count then? Because otherwise I don't want to waste writing out any good advice.


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## Jenn~n~Luke (Aug 20, 2010)

It's hard to put things into any sort of "context" when you keep contradicting yourself, sorry.



> Last week I got an 8 week old Cairn Terrier puppy,





> We are very bonded, I've had her *several weeks*. She follows me everywhere.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

You have a TERRIER, which is bred to be courageous and have a strong and tenacious temperament. The solution to your problem is to never allow the puppy loose in your home unless you are directly supervising.

Let the puppy drag a light drag line about 8' long when she is in the house with you. Watch her every SECOND. If she goes towards cords or other things she is not supposed to chew, stop her with the line, and redirect her with a toy. I have bred and brought up numerous strong tempered large breed puppies over several decades. I NEVER EVER use aversives on a puppy of this age. What you are doing with the bitter apple will only teach the puppy to mistrust and fear you. Use positives. WORK to catch the puppy doing something right and reward her for it. STOP focusing on the negative. Instead, work to find the positive and reward it. In a short time this will build on itself and you will find yourself finding so many occasions to reward your puppy it will become a joyful thing for you both.

Go to YouTube and tune in to Kikopup's channel, and get educated. She is a wonderful trainer, and you will learn how to manage your puppy and focus on the positive rather than the negative.

For your outdoor trips, and for the indoor dragline, go to a home improvement store, and buy light nylon cord. Buy enough for the 8 footer for indoors, and enough for about a 30 footer for outdoors. Buy 2 lightweight bolt snaps. Tie one end of each cord to the bolt snap, and tie a nice knot in the other end. Singe the ends with a lighter. When you go out, carry the puppy, pick up the end of the long cord, and start walking. If you get to the end of the cord, keep your back to the puppy, and wait for her to start towards you. When she does, turn and face her, kneel, and encourage her to come to you. When she gets there, give her a tiny tasty food reward. Repeat ad infinitum. Avoid at any cost the puppy struggling against any tension on the line. Once she learns to follow, you can start to shorten the line by looping it up in your hand until she is walking on what a leash length would be. Go slow. Be patient. Use REWARDS rather than punishment. 

You are forging the basis for a relationship that will last over a decade if you are lucky. Be careful, be kind, be patient, and work to find your puppy doing something right. In the meantime, manage her life so that she has little chance of doing the wrong thing. Do this by judicious, kind and careful use of crates, exercise pens, supervision, and drag lines.

Never leave a drag line on your puppy when you are not directly supervising her. Get in training class, one that uses positive reinforcement, as soon as you can.

And while you are at it, take that chip off your shoulder. Anyone who responds to your post has taken the time to respond to try to help you.

Best of luck with your puppy.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Wow. Seriously, I am with Red, take that chip off your shoulder. Your plan isn't working, so why are you barking back at folks taking the time to help you and comment on what YOU wrote? Do you think you are the only one who has had to raise a puppy in a condo or apartment? I've raised two boxers in apartments and before they walked nicely on a leash, I still had to take them out on one. You pick the dog up, take it out to it's potty spot and encourage it to follow you, positively, then when its done, pick the puppy back up and take him back inside. In the meantime, you work on basic leash behaviors. 
At this age there really shouldn't be any punishment - or whatever you call it. It should be lots of redirecting, rewards and FUN.
Good luck with your pup.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Wow, this is an interesting thread.
Ari bear, my you are a pompous one. Really. You do need to get that chip removed..it's making you hunchbacked.

Bitter sprays are NOT meant to sprayed AT or NEAR a dog. Period. The bitter extracts, even diluted can cause severe corneal damage and are extremely unpleasant. They are meant to be put ON the cords. Your 8 week old puppy (an infant for doggsake) gets upset because you spray her, well, that's not a damn surprise. It's not abuse you say? Bullpucky.

I live in an apt building and also have a leash rule...as, in fact, ninety percent of the cities in North America. Your HOA is not that unique. If your 8 week old puppy gets tired, overwhelmed or whatever and stops...WAIT. Wait some more and then if she's already done her business just take her home. Walking on a leash around a lake is not a prerequisite to being housetrained. One spot for a pee and poo, not a marathon is all you need.

Veterinarians, btw, unless they are veterinary behaviourists are NOT the best person to ask for training or behaviour advice, they receive little or no behaviour information in their schooling. A puppy can understand a leash, yes...but can they understand what it's for? To walk nicely on a loose leash? Not a chance in hell.. INFANT. She understands food, warmth, safety, smells, scary stuff and poo and pee...her brain is quite simply not "there" yet to understand difficult concepts. LLW for pets (as opposed to comp. obed, which means hours of work daily) can take as long as 2 years to get truly consistent walking from the dog (as in perfect LLW). You need to adjust your expectations here. She's in preschool, you are expecting highschool. 

You've probably not read most of this because I started out giving you heck...but I have to tell you your posts irritated the heck out of me. 

And yes, I'm a dog professional who specializes in puppies and fearful dogs. What you do to a pup in the name of training, affects their temperament...then people like me have to fix it. Do yourself a favour and get a better trainer, get yourself some better dog education and give your pup a chance for life as a good dog.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Some of us are dog owners, dog fanciers, and some of us are dog professionals. It is silly to assume that you are talking to uneducated people; especially when you came here to get advice. 

Please stop spraying your dog with bitter spray. If you absolutely must use a spray bottle, just use water. I don't recommend this either, but its better than spraying toxins in your puppy's face. 

As for the walking, no one ever suggested you take the dog off leash. I have leash laws too and I manage just fine. You're not special.

Use a very light (feather weight) line. It is still considered a leash so you don't have to worry about your precious HOA. Practice leash walking in the house first and then move on to outside.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

For the walking on leash, you might look at "Silky Leash" training (do a search). Dogs only understand how to resist pressure on the leash, this teaches them to instead move into the tight leash and release the pressure. Something else that works nicely is to face the direction you want to go, and instead of pulling, gently stroke the leash towards you. This comes from horse training - because you can't force 1800 lbs. of animal to move by pulling on it. Another thing that works is to reinforce the pup for staying next to you off leash (in a safe area) and then not tighten the leash. As to challenging your authority? Really? Puppy proof your house, supervise carefully, and quit squirting her with noxious substances.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Ari Bear said:


> There's a difference between drooling and chewing, specifically electrical wires. I had a mishap with my older dog when she was a puppy biting into a printer cord, catching current and being severely electrocuted. This is something I want to NEVER repeat, my dog could have died had I not been sitting right there and unplugged the cord. She needs to learn that chewing on cords is not acceptable, and as I said, I cannot possibly predict every cord she's going to chew on in order to spray it with the bitter spray. The only time I squirt her is when she is chewing on an electrical wire and I KNOW she will move before I can get to her and attempt to correct this behavior, this is my option. I'm sorry if you disagree and you're welcome to, but as I said, it's what a professional - not just any person off the street calling them a professional - but a professional highly .... Right now I'm using a collar, I do not pull her when she stops be simply stop with her and try to walk in the direction that she's looking, or I drop the leash, walk a few feet away and call her to me trying to encourage her to move forward. When I do this I always reward her with a treat and when she is walking along on the leash I always praise her. When we walk with the leash I always make sure it's slack as she resists when it's not and allow her to do her exploring before encouraging her to walk on.
> ....To be quite honest, I really do not appreciate what I feel are accusations of me mistreating my puppy. I think if you go back and reread what I wrote you'll see that's not what is happening at all. I am trying to train my puppy to walk on the leash to aid in potty training as *I live in a condo*, leashes are required by the HOA. I also take her outside, leash on and sit in the grass and play with her until she's done, trying to desensitize her to the leash and outside distractions in general. She will walk along without it, but there are times where she'll run away from me and I'm worried about her encountering a raccoon or skunk.
> .


You know what works great for electrical cords? PVC pipe. Just thread the exposed cord through the PVC and your puppy can't chew on it. I would switch to a harness. Pressure on the neck is pretty scary. I'm sure you're doing what you've been told to do, but in all honestly spraying the puppy in the face with ANY bitter product (whatever the breed) comes very close to abuse and could injure her.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Ari Bear said:


> We are very bonded, I've had her several weeks. She follows me everywhere.
> 
> .


You've had an 8 week old puppy "several weeks"????


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Nil said:


> What do you mean by punish? Punish could be anything from hitting your puppy to withholding attention and anything in between. Be specific, please.
> 
> Do what you want, but I consider spraying an 8 week old puppy in the face with bitter apple spray (even diluted) a huge no-no and not something I would ever do. One reason I would not want to do this is because if your puppy is chewing on something inappropriate, then the puppy has not learned what is appropriate to chew on. This is a baby, an infant. You would not spray vinegar in a human baby's face for drooling on a favorite shirt.
> 
> ...


THIS^^^^. Good advice.

Stop spraying her. You should have your rooms puppy proofed and be supervising her closely enough that when you see her go over to the cords and just start to bite into it, you can clap your hand, or say "Hey!" to distract her, and go move her and substitute a toy. Spray cords, and other items with the spray.

The puppy is a BABY. The fact that you live in an apartment means nothing to her. It will take time for her to learn to walk happily on a leash. Puppies that age should be walked often, but only about 10 min or so. More of a trip outside to potty and let her walk around with you holding the leash following, and occasionally, stopping and encouraging her to come to you. Thirty minutes is WAAAAYYY too long, even if you are walking and stopping every 10 feet.

Dump whatever trainer told you to spray her. Also, get rid of the idea that the puppy is challenging you. It's a baby and just doesn't know what to do. Even if she does something right 3 times in a row, she'll backslide, or not generalize that the command means the same thing in all locations, and she won't do it.

Whatever you do, do not try to be "alpha" and alpha roll her on her back, or physically punish her. Do not yell at her for accidents or rub her nose in it. I mention this because the tone of your post makes me think that you'll watch the dog whisperer and suddenly think that is a good way to train. The alpha/dominance theory is outdated and incorrect.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

When my son was 7 yrs old I got him a full time job digging ditches, I could not understand why he got terminated on the 1st day. This is basically the same concept used with this 8 week old pup. Geeze it's so simple a little buckle collar, a 15 ft lead, you pick pup up carry him to area where he does duty, put pup down, drop lead and just stand on end and he has a 15 ft circle to walk at his leisure and get the job done. He's doing his duty while walking around and getting use to lead, the condo people happy cause there is a lead and you are letting your pup grow up and he is happy.

Walking/exercising the pup starts gradually, you are not training pup for a marathon.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I always wonder if the people who say spraying a dog with diluted bitter spray or vinegar isn't abusive have actually sprayed the stuff on THEIR face. I wouldn't do anything to my dogs that I haven't experienced for myself. (minus vet stuff.. I'm not about to get spayed anytime soon)


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## Jenn~n~Luke (Aug 20, 2010)

wvasko said:


> When my son was 7 yrs old I got him a full time job digging ditches, *I could not understand why he got terminated on the 1st day.* LOL I Like you!
> This is basically the same concept used with this 8 week old pup. Geeze it's so simple a little buckle collar, a 15 ft lead, *you pick pup up carry him to area *where he does duty, put pup down, drop lead and just stand on end and he has a 15 ft circle to walk at his leisure and get the job done.


 If owners of giant breed pups who weigh 30 pounds at nine weeks can do it surely to heavens it shouldn't be too difficult with a small breed! .


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Jenn~n~Luke said:


> If owners of giant breed pups who weigh 30 pounds at nine weeks can do it surely to heavens it shouldn't be too difficult with a small breed! .


I would think the difficulty would be slim to none.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Don't think the OP is still here.....hmmmmm......


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

doxiemommy said:


> Don't think the OP is still here.....hmmmmm......


He's probably still standing on the other side of the pond with an exhausted puppy cursing us.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm right here, sorry I don't have all day to respond to people on a forum .


Firstly, I have sprayed vinegar in my face, as well as bug spray and perfume in my eye, it does not feel good and I never said anything about spraying my puppy in the eye.

Secondly, I do not have a chip on my shoulder, I do not appreciate being accused of damaging and essentially abusing my puppy. I have used theses training methods on other dogs who have had *NO* behavioral problems that need fixing in the past. I understand creating lasting behavioral problems in a dog, or any animal for that matter and actively avoid those methods ... hitting for example.

Now I DO bring my puppy down stairs do the 'designated' do you business area, but things don't always work that way, she wants to explore first, plus movement helps get her little bowels going, so walking is a great way of doing this, as is playing. When she wants to explore, I allow her to, with the leash down on the ground, when she moves forward, I pick it up and praise her as she continues to walk along. When she refuses to move forward, or in any direction at all when I am holding the leash - and she does this without the leash going taught, I drop it, turn my back and walk away, and call her to me, when she responds, I give her a treat while praising her. However, she doesn't always respond, and this isn't because she's tired, as we've walked say, five feet. If we had gone further I would understand that this is her being tired, but this isn't the case. I'd gladly take a video and upload it if you'd all like to see.

When she is chewing, I am always redirecting her to a toy. ALWAYS. I have sprayed her *twice*. I'm sorry, that does not constitute abuse. Also, I checked the back of the label of the bitter spray last night, and it says keep away from eyes which is not where I've squirted her or ever would.

I appreciate the people who have given me valuable advice without accusations and will certainly take it into consideration. As for everyone else, I don't really see the comments worth responding to as I'm not trying to argue. You can disagree with what I've done, but I can also disagree with what you're saying. There are different training methods for all kinds of animals, horses, dogs, and most people who train differently strongly disagree with others. I try to take bits from all training methods to get a well balanced animal. It's worked with my dogs, and it's worked with my horses, so I see no reason to change my method.

I came here for advice on how to encourage my puppy to walk on a leash and I have certainly received some valuable advice which I will be trying. However, I have also been accused of mistreating my puppy, which is something I would never do. I am a huge animal lover and would never do any psychological or physical harm to her, as I have NEVER done to any of my animals.

So again, thank you to the people who have offered advice. Everyone else, you're welcome to disagree with me squirting my puppy in the face twice, but to me you're being extremely histrionic as well as making grossly wrong judgments on how I treat and train my puppy.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Please explain how you can squirt her in the face and that NOT result in any possibly getting in her eyes? Not twisting your words and you just said you squirted your puppy in the face twice.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

dagwall said:


> Please explain how you can squirt her in the face and that NOT result in any possibly getting in her eyes? Not twisting your words and you just said you squirted your puppy in the face twice.


Since it's a direct spray not an all over spray (you know the different settings in the nozzle?) I squirted her below the mouth. I also then not that long later was picking her up and kissing her in between the eyes on on the side of her face and had no bitter taste on my lips, so I must not have gotten her there. 

Like I said, you guys are welcome to disagree with what I did, but I'm done discussing it, if you guys want to continue on your witch hunt, go ahead. 

Thank you to the people who gave me valuable advice.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

Some more advice...

Get better chew toys. Kongs with a bit of cheese, real bones in her crate, and so on. Take ten minutes, go through one room and puppy proof as much as you can - spray anything she might think of tasting, pick up anything tempting and put it away for now. Then you can relax a bit. When she starts to think about chewing the wrong thing, instead of spraying her, use your words, get her attention and grab one of her items she can chew and get her focused on that. She doesn't know NOT to chew the wall for example, so instead of being negative off the hop and spraying her, she's showing you she'd like to chew on something, so provide it - soon she'll do that herself!

Walking - I don't drag puppies. Instead just stand and let her wander, if she slams on the brakes, just stand and wait. If she's sorta going in the right direction, go with her. Dragging or pulling etc. just teaches her that the leash is something to pull and drag. And yes, that means you won't go for a half hour hike and will end up standing around, it's better for her joints anyway. No worries, soon she'll be walking like a pro! She'll figure out potty training if you stand around for half an hour just as much as she will fighting over a walk, and personally I'd rather they get to like walks and working with me instead of making it a battle zone.


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## Jenn~n~Luke (Aug 20, 2010)

Ari Bear said:


> Now I DO bring my puppy down stairs do the 'designated' do you business area, *but things don't always work that way, she wants to explore first, plus movement helps get her little bowels going, so walking is a great way of doing this, as is playing.*


Not that you'll take any of this, but if it were me, and I were in a condo setting where I had to take my dog outside on lead in order to potty, I would stop the play behavior *until* she has learned that going out on the lead, in a certain area, means "go potty". This will be a big help later on when you want her to know the difference between..."we're going for a nice walk, going to play, versus..let's hurry out side and get our buisness done so we can go to bed". I wouldn't allow much in the way of play or exploration until AFTER she voids...She will soon learn that her job is to go pee first, *then* she gets to do what she likes. Otherwise, you might end up having to take this dog out twice as many times throughout the day. It's always a good thing to have them know the potty command anyway, as in real life there are going to be times you DO need to hurry and won't have all day to let her play first.

That would be my first priority, *then* working on making leash walking a happy,fun experience for her. But again, that's just me. I wouldn't have a clue how to train a dog because like everyone else on this forum it would appear I MUST live on a huge farm with no experience whatsoever training a tiny terrier pup.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

Bordermom said:


> Some more advice...
> 
> Get better chew toys. Kongs with a bit of cheese, real bones in her crate, and so on. Take ten minutes, go through one room and puppy proof as much as you can - spray anything she might think of tasting, pick up anything tempting and put it away for now. Then you can relax a bit. When she starts to think about chewing the wrong thing, instead of spraying her, use your words, get her attention and grab one of her items she can chew and get her focused on that. She doesn't know NOT to chew the wall for example, so instead of being negative off the hop and spraying her, she's showing you she'd like to chew on something, so provide it - soon she'll do that herself!
> 
> Walking - I don't drag puppies. Instead just stand and let her wander, if she slams on the brakes, just stand and wait. If she's sorta going in the right direction, go with her. Dragging or pulling etc. just teaches her that the leash is something to pull and drag. And yes, that means you won't go for a half hour hike and will end up standing around, it's better for her joints anyway. No worries, soon she'll be walking like a pro! She'll figure out potty training if you stand around for half an hour just as much as she will fighting over a walk, and personally I'd rather they get to like walks and working with me instead of making it a battle zone.


She's got a ton of chew toys, a kong, but she's totally uninterested in it, even with treats, and several other bones to chew on. I've learned she LOVES to chew on carrots so I've started to give her those once I've redirected her chewing to a toy. I have sprayed down everything in the condo that she shouldn't be chewing on that I can reach. I also almost always (not going to say always because sometimes I forget) have a bone or something in hand so I can immediately redirect her to an appropriate toy to chew.

I don't drag my puppy *at all* on the leash and never have. When she stops I walk in another direction, the leash is still slack and encourage her to follow me, or I drop the leash and walk away and call her to me. We aren't going for half an hour hikes, we're spending a half an hour standing around doing nothing. All I'm trying to do on these walks is encourage her to go to the bathroom, I'm fine if it's five minutes and we ALWAYS end on a positive note.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

Jenn~n~Luke said:


> Not that you'll take any of this, but if it were me, and I were in a condo setting where I had to take my dog outside on lead in order to potty, I would stop the play behavior *until* she has learned that going out on the lead, in a certain area, means "go potty". This will be a big help later on when you want her to know the difference between..."we're going for a nice walk, going to play, versus..let's hurry out side and get our buisness done so we can go to bed". I wouldn't allow much in the way of play or exploration until AFTER she voids...She will soon learn that her job is to go pee first, *then* she gets to do what she likes. Otherwise, you might end up having to take this dog out twice as many times throughout the day. It's always a good thing to have them know the potty command anyway, as in real life there are going to be times you DO need to hurry and won't have all day to let her play first.
> 
> That would be my first priority, *then* working on making leash walking a happy,fun experience for her. But again, that's just me. I wouldn't have a clue how to train a dog because like everyone else on this forum it would appear I MUST live on a huge farm with no experience whatsoever training a tiny terrier pup.


Adding insults to the end of your post is again attacking me.

However, she does know going outside in a certain area means go pee, but she will not void her bowels without activity first. So how do you suggest I encourage her to do this when getting her active is the only way I can get her to go outside?


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

OP, your attitude sucks. Yes, you do have a chip on your shoulder. If you don't need any advice, then why did you come here? Spraying your puppy in the face or head area with bitter apple is RIDICULOUS. So is expecting what you are expecting of an 8 week old puppy. The TITLE of this thread says it all. 

My bet is your puppy is gone within 6 months time. You are not cut out for a terrier. Next time I suggest a cat, or a goldfish.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> OP, your attitude sucks. Yes, you do have a chip on your shoulder. If you don't need any advice, then why did you come here? Spraying your puppy in the face or head area with bitter apple is RIDICULOUS. So is expecting what you are expecting of an 8 week old puppy. The TITLE of this thread says it all.
> 
> My bet is your puppy is gone within 6 months time. You are not cut out for a terrier. Next time I suggest a cat, or a goldfish.


I'll be sure to tell my 14 year old Cairn Terrier that as well as my saltwater and freshwater fish as well as my 4 year old off the track thoroughbred gelding who I trained and is an angel.

The puppy is going nowhere and we've already made great progress at having her being well adjusted, no crying in the crate at night or anything like that which it seems several other members of this forum have issues with.


Like I said, I'll let the witch hunt continue but I'm now done with this thread. Again, THANK YOU people who did not attack me and gave me usable advice.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> OP, your attitude sucks. Yes, you do have a chip on your shoulder. If you don't need any advice, then why did you come here? Spraying your puppy in the face or head area with bitter apple is RIDICULOUS. So is expecting what you are expecting of an 8 week old puppy. The TITLE of this thread says it all.
> 
> My bet is your puppy is gone within 6 months time. You are not cut out for a terrier. Next time I suggest a cat, or a goldfish.


I have to agree! If you had no intent of taking anybody's advice, then why post asking for help? If doing exactly what you're doing is working, so be it, just bear in mind the experience here and if people are saying try something else, then they might be on to something.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

*Are you just selectively reading the posts and ignoring where I ask questions of people who offer me useful advice?* I responded to your post positively and you still proceed to attack me.

I'll be sure to find my 14 year old Cairn Terrier a new home as soon as I get home today since I'm not fit to own a terrier. And I guess it's a good thing my Wired Fox Terrier before that died at 13 years old, since again, I'm not fit to own a terrier.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

Look, do what you want, as it seems you will. We have given advice and reasons we believe in that advice. If you don't want to follow it, you don't have to. 

What are you ultimately seeking in terms of information? At first, it seems like you wanted to know how to get her to walk on a loose leash with you without sitting down. The general consensus is that you can't expect an 8 week old puppy to do this. What you are doing now sounds fine. Keeping a loose leash, positive interactions outside, allowing her to explore, etc. I would say continue with this. 

As far as pottying outside, I agree with Jenn~n~Luke. Yes, walking around will make the puppy need to pee/poop. However, I would limit the fun time until the pup goes to the bathroom. For example, go outside on leash and follow her around (but don't make any noises, just follow quietly) with a loose leash and once she pees/poops then party (treats, praise, toys, etc). Now, after she goes to the bathroom, would be a time to be more actively engaged with her as far as exploring or playing with toys, etc. If a pup learns that once it potties outside is has to come in then you may set yourself up with a dog who will hold it when they are outside for fear of ending their play time.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

Nil said:


> Look, do what you want, as it seems you will. We have given advice and reasons we believe in that advice. If you don't want to follow it, you don't have to.
> 
> What are you ultimately seeking in terms of information? At first, it seems like you wanted to know how to get her to walk on a loose leash with you without sitting down. The general consensus is that you can't expect an 8 week old puppy to do this. What you are doing now sounds fine. Keeping a loose leash, positive interactions outside, allowing her to explore, etc. I would say continue with this.
> 
> *As far as pottying outside, I agree with Jenn~n~Luke. Yes, walking around will make the puppy need to pee/poop. However, I would limit the fun time until the pup goes to the bathroom. For example, go outside on leash and follow her around (but don't make any noises, just follow quietly) with a loose leash and once she pees/poops then party (treats, praise, toys, etc). Now, after she goes to the bathroom, would be a time to be more actively engaged with her as far as exploring or playing with toys, etc. If a pup learns that once it potties outside is has to come in then you may set yourself up with a dog who will hold it when they are outside for fear of ending their play time.*


Right now, nothing other than this, I've gotten good, constructive advice on what to do without being personally attacked. I do believe it's common knowledge that some dogs needs physical activity to get their bowels moving which is why I asked how I should do this without playing with her, which you have provided me, so thank you.

Other than that, I'm asking for the personal attacks on my dog keeping ability to stop before I request that this thread be closed.

ETA: I didn't read what you said fully, but just because she goes to the bathroom doesn't mean that I end play time. It almost always continues until she loses interest regardless of bowel movements or peeing.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Ari Bear said:


> Right now, nothing other than this, I've gotten good, constructive advice on what to do without being personally attacked. I do believe it's common knowledge that some dogs needs physical activity to get their bowels moving which is why I asked how I should do this without playing with her, which you have provided me, so thank you.
> 
> Other than that, I'm asking for the personal attacks on my dog keeping ability to stop before I request that this thread be closed.
> 
> ETA: I didn't read what you said fully, but just because she goes to the bathroom doesn't mean that I end play time. It almost always continues until she loses interest regardless of bowel movements or peeing.


AB
I truly hope you have more patience with your pup than you do when reading replies from absolute strangers who can't change your lifestyle in any way, manner or form.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

wvasko said:


> AB
> I truly hope you have more patience with your pup than you do when reading replies from absolute strangers who can't change your lifestyle in any way, manner or form.


Yet again, another personal attack. If you read through my posts I think you can clearly see how much patience I do have for my puppy. It doesn't change the fact that I'm under leash constraints where I live. She is not my first puppy, nor will she be my last. The only reason I snapped in this thread is because I was being personally attacked and accused of abusing my dog.

At this point I'm going to request that this thread be closed, it's run it's course.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Ari Bear said:


> At this point I'm going to request that this thread be closed, it's run it's course.


Not that simple. When you start a thread, and ask for advice, you take the advice you can use and ignore the rest.

I've read the whole thread and I see plenty of criticism, but no personal attacks.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

RonE said:


> Not that simple. When you start a thread, and ask for advice, you take the advice you can use and ignore the rest.
> 
> I've read the whole thread and I see plenty of criticism, but no personal attacks.


To me, there are plenty. But I'll simply stop responding to this thread.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

RonE said:


> Not that simple. When you start a thread, and ask for advice, you take the advice you can use and ignore the rest.
> 
> I've read the whole thread and I see plenty of criticism, but no personal attacks.


I did not think I was attacking poster but I will probably be a little hesitant before posting again cause if he really thinks there is an attack the easiest way to stop it is not reply on his future if any threads, no need to cause grief.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Have you ever tasted that stuff? I had to spray my shoes when Jo was young to keep her from chewing on them & also the boards of the porch... Etc. I got a little on my hands & touched my face after I forgot tonwash my hands & ... All I have to say is ewwwwwww :S. If you are spraying it in the pups face, even if its diluted, please dont do it . I have to say that I dont have a veey high opinion of this "trainer".


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Lindbert said:


> I always wonder if the people who say spraying a dog with diluted bitter spray or vinegar isn't abusive have actually sprayed the stuff on THEIR face. I wouldn't do anything to my dogs that I haven't experienced for myself. (minus vet stuff.. I'm not about to get spayed anytime soon)


hahaha, I dont want kids, I wouldn't mind getting "spayed" (talking about the human socially acceptable equivilant of getting the tubes cut of course) not an actual hysterectomy lol. 

Wvasko>> bless you, you always give great advice.

AB you should listen to some of these ppl, they have helped me more then they know & always have great advice, its one thing I like about these forums. You must remember (& I know how you feel believe me, young pups are torturously frustrating... I should know I have raised: GSDs, dobies, numerous mutts, JRTs & most recently, ACDs) & it doesn't get easier with time... Believe me.


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## Ari Bear (Oct 3, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Have you ever tasted that stuff? I had to spray my shoes when Jo was young to keep her from chewing on them & also the boards of the porch... Etc. I got a little on my hands & touched my face after I forgot tonwash my hands & ... All I have to say is ewwwwwww :S. If you are spraying it in the pups face, even if its diluted, please dont do it . I have to say that I dont have a veey high opinion of this "trainer".


Yep, I have tasted both the Bitter Apple spray and the bitter spray I'm using now. The bitter spray isn't that horrible, but the Bitter Apply spray is. However my older Cairn loved the Bitter Apple spray and we had to use Tabasco sauce to get her to stop chewing.

I'm more than happy to listen to advice on this forum, but I believe ANYONE who actually cares about their dog would shut down when being accused of abuse, or being told they aren't ready for a kind of dog they've had their entire life, especially after successfully trained a Cairn in the past. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Regardless, I'd like to let this thread die, so this is my last response.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

I agree with RonE. I've seen criticisms but no attacks. In the beginning people just disagreed with some of your methods, including me. No one said you were a horrible person or dog owner. We just disagreed with you, told you why, and some of us actually offered suggestions or alternatives in the same post as we offered criticisms. But then you got defensive and snarky.
There's a difference between criticizing and attacking. If you can't handle criticism on a forum then perhaps you need to consider the fact that you might be a tad bit over-sensitive.


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## labmk12 (Oct 3, 2011)

You say you have had her several weeks and originally stated she was 8 weeks. At what age did you get her? 

As a trainer who works with military/police dogs and dogs with severe behavioral issues I would throw the spraying her in the face out the window for good. You catch her chewing on the cord, spray her in the face. Why not catch her chewing on the cord, redirect her or firmly tell her "no"? I don't see why they spray is needed at all


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> hahaha, I dont want kids, I wouldn't mind getting "spayed" (talking about the human socially acceptable equivilant of getting the tubes cut of course) not an actual hysterectomy lol.


I'm one of those strange people who wants a litter of kids. I grew up as the oldest of 10, so I'm used to the insanity that tons of children bring to a household. My husband and I compromised to stop at 3. Our first was born on Sept 11th, and I'm still not scared away from having more (well, besides the financial aspect of course.) Three kids and three dogs.. sounds like a perfect match!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Lindbert said:


> I'm one of those strange people who wants a litter of kids. I grew up as the oldest of 10, so I'm used to the insanity that tons of children bring to a household. My husband and I compromised to stop at 3. Our first was born on Sept 11th, and I'm still not scared away from having more (well, besides the financial aspect of course.) Three kids and three dogs.. sounds like a perfect match!


lol I dont have it in me, but I respect your decision & your determination lol. I wish you the best , I grew up as an only hold... Perhaps that has something to so with that.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> lol I dont have it in me, but I respect your decision & your determination lol. I wish you the best , I grew up as an only hold... Perhaps that has something to so with that.


I'm one of those people that think if someone chooses not to have kids it's definitely for the best.. you won't hear me flaunting the "joys of motherhood" and saying that everyone should pop out kids before they die or their life will be incomplete. I say bravo for NOT giving into the pressure so many people place on women to have kids because if your heart isn't in it at least 100%, it will turn out disastrous. Besides, we're overpopulated as it is. They should be giving you the tax breaks :laugh:


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

I had to chuckle at the kid/puppy comments. I have a friend who is quite happy to be an aunt. From a far distance. I mentioned we were trying to get out of town for one night without kids/dogs/cats in tow. She offered to board the crazy dogs. Cats if we needed them. But would charge us a lot to board the kids. Considering the dogs are sometimes a handful I thought it was quite funny (Ticket while I was out for 20 minutes managed to get a box off the shelf in the dogroom and spill stuff everywhere, knock over and spill a can of paint and move several things around in the room..... bad dog!).


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I never had problems finding a dogsitter for 3-4 dogs. No one wants to babysit an infant even though she's really less work than even one of the dogs!


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## wil.wish (Sep 6, 2011)

She's 8 weeks old and you're spraying her and administering punishments? OK, first bit of advice is to crank it back a notch. Maybe six or seven notches, in fact. An 8-week old puppy has nearly zero impulse control. A spray to her face is just going to piss her off. If she's chewing something she shouldn't, put away the spray and give her a chew toy. Puppies that young have to chew - she's doubtlessly teething. 

I just brought home a puppy myself, just under 8 weeks old. He chews on anything he can reach,because that's what puppies do. I watch him when he's free, redirect him to chew toys when he tries to gnaw on my fingers or other taboo items, and not once have I needed to punish him for anything. He's already about halfway to learning 'sit', and he's only been with me for 3 days. Believe it or not, he hasn't 'challenged' me at all. This might be because he's not as aggressive as your puppy, or it might be because he doesn't have a lunatic effectively macing him.

Tell you what - next time one of your friends picks up something you didn't want them to, instead of calmly asking them to put it down, spay them in the face with that bitter apple and see what happens. 

Holy crap.


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## aunteeker (Jan 16, 2013)

boy, this sounds so familiar! My friend just got a Cairn Terrier pup, but it's 4 or 5 months old. He didn't have much human contact and was the last of the litter. He has somewhat bonded with my friend, but will pee outside but not poop. He always hides inside and goes. And he cries and yelps when my friend has to leave him even a short time, though that part is getting better. He will NOT walk on a leash. My friend has left the leash on so he could get used to the feeling and has left the leash lax, but the minute my friend tries to walk him, he parks his but and will not move. No matter how long!! He can go up and down stairs. He ducks if you reach your hand down toward him, though even tho he didn't have much human contact, he was not hit or punished. He will not go outside on a rope, my friend has to go with him and wait or he won't go out. He follows his owner everywhere, even to the bathroom and is always underfoot, seemingly scared his owner will leave him. Shy of other people. Steals things and hides them. Chews on 'odd' things, like my friend found him with a SAFETY PIN and he had already bent it up before he caught him. He is 'puppy proofing' more carefully wonders if that is odd and also the squirrelling away of things. He did have to go to the vet because of ear mites, and I am wondering if a look at his ears and a small bottle of drops, is the cost of $125 for less than 15 minutes in the office extremely high? I don't remember paying anything near that and I have Saint Bernards. Is a Cairn Terrier more difficult to train or only because he was an older pup before he found his human? thanks!!! I will relay any messages or give my friend this site - he is doing the best he knows to do and is getting info off the net elsewhere also -


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

The squirreling away of things sounds like he's trying to hide things he finds valuable, kind of like guarding a resource, except that he's more hiding it, rather than guarding it.


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## aunteeker (Jan 16, 2013)

doxiemommy said:


> The squirreling away of things sounds like he's trying to hide things he finds valuable, kind of like guarding a resource, except that he's more hiding it, rather than guarding it.


yes, he took his owners WALLET and he didn't find it for two days! He never even dreamed the dog would take that! But he didn't have any human contact and now he is totally thinking his owner is his mom or something - he isn't all that warm and affectionate but he won't leave the owner for a second. He keeps his eye on him at all times and if he moves, he runs to him.


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