# I am so fed up with these vets



## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

I really don't know what to do anymore. 

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-health-questions/98656-dog-allergies-phlegm.html

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/96915-what-would-you-do.html

As you can see from those threads, Lexi has been having a horrible summer.

To sum up, she had a ton of symptoms that the first vet said were allergies. 

We got a second opinion from another vet, who was sure it was an infection, and prescribed an antibiotic for her.

She greatly improved while on that antibiotic, except she still had the hacking cough/mucus. A day before the medicine was done (wednesday), I called the vet back and said that it was working really well, but the cough wasn't gone, and should we maybe put her on it for another week. The vet said that no, we shouldn't... we should have noticed a great bit of improvement, but the cough could last a few days after the medicine is done. 

She was done the medicine Thursday.

Now, today, she is back to being coughy/mucousy, sneezing, and her nose is very crusty again. I called the vet, only to find out that they don't even work Saturdays.

NOW what do I do? This is so very frustrating. I just want my poor girl to feel normal again. 

If I wait to get her back into the vet Monday, would it be useless to put her BACK onto that same medicine? Doesn't it lose it's effectiveness if it is stopped and restarted?

Or maybe he is wrong about what she has? 

I really have no clue what to do.

p.s.-her mood is still pretty good. right now she is chewing on a bone and relaxing.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

You have to decide if you want to keep "tryin' stuff", or go ahead with recommended diagnostics.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

sassafras said:


> You have to decide if you want to keep "tryin' stuff", or go ahead with recommended diagnostics.


This adds nothing to the post. I asked if I should get a second opinion, which I did. I followed that vet's instructions exactly, and the same problem is happening. 

That is not "tryin' stuff".

Don't make me out to be one of those corner-cutting pet owners. Money is NOT the issue here. Finding someone to fix the problem IS.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

First of all, I'm not trying to make you out to be anything. You're reading judgement where I meant and implied none. There are two approaches: Tryin' stuff, and doing diagnostics. You have to choose between them. :shrug:

And I must have misread your earlier posts. I thought that x-rays of the head had been recommended and declined, my mistake. What were the results?


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## MuttJob (Jul 16, 2011)

My first thought was some kind of nasal problem as well....did they try looking up her nose for a foreign body or mites or anything like that? I understand that nasal problems can cause mouth/swallowing problems and vice versa. I once read about a dog with a forieign object in the nasal cavity that caused the dogs swallowing reflex to screw up - so the dog accidentally inhaled food into the lungs. 
I'm not an expert though...still, diagnostics are a good idea. Maybe they should check the lungs on an xray too. Chronic respitory problems scare me!

I'm not sure going back to the antibiotic is helpful. If it was a normal course, it should have cleared up not gotten worse after getting better I would think.


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## canine nutritionist (Jul 16, 2011)

Dog food allergy...get her off whatever she is eating and buy a good grain free food. Prairie, Wellness, Innova are all good choices. Do this immediately...don't ween her off the other start right away. If you can, you first need to have her eat some yogurt to help restore the natural balance in the intestine. If she is lactose intolorate...skip this part. Send me a reply on her health please!


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Try Chicken and Rice..
No Dog food...
Throw some greens into the mix ..and some vanilla ice cream after dinner.

I know what dogs like..


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Dog food allergy, huh? I will give it a shot, though it would seem odd, as she has been on the same food (Royal Canine) since we got her...


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Allergies in dogs don't present like they do in people - the runny nose, cough, mucus, etc... is the norm for people but not dogs. Dogs with allergies (like food allergy) chew their paws, rump, ears, etc... excessively.

If you're really fed up with talking to all of the vets you've been seeing and you say money is no issue then seek a referral to a specialty vet hospital and see an internal medicine specialist.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Mr. V said:


> Allergies in dogs don't present like they do in people - the runny nose, cough, mucus, etc... is the norm for people but not dogs. Dogs with allergies (like food allergy) chew their paws, rump, ears, etc... excessively.
> 
> If you're really fed up with talking to all of the vets you've been seeing and you say money is no issue then seek a referral to a specialty vet hospital and see an internal medicine specialist.


Yes, thats what I read on a quick google search. She has none of that. 

It was strange. on a whim, we gave her one of the antihistamines from the FIRST vet, and her symptoms went away.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Just a quick update on my girl...

Took her back to the vet: He says that he still believes it to be an infection, and gave her two weeks of the same medication before.

If this doesn't work, I am going to just try another vet. I might even take her to her original vet again. 

I am not too sure of this vet. He seems good, but the atmosphere isn't exactly ideal. First of all, we waited an hour to get in. I'm okay with waiting, but we waited in a giant waiting room, with all sorts of animals all over. our old vet had barely any waiting room, so if you DID have to wait, it was inside the actual exam room. 

Secondly, the actual room she was examined in, was a big open spot, with "stations" set up. I really did not like that experience, especially considering the spot next to us had a very sick cat, and the owner had to have all sorts of people around to hear the news that it's probably congestive heart failure, and the cat hasn't much of a chance of survival. 

I am very surprised at how highly recommended this vet is, considering these types of things.


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## dmickle1 (Jun 19, 2011)

Sounds like you need a new vet, firstly. That place sounds awful.

Secondly, I don't think it's food allergies. Like someone else mentioned earlier, food allergies manifest in different ways for dogs - itchy places, especially the tail, rump and paws. Hair loss can also occur, either from a skin reaction or from itching. The dog will also have red spots. NOTHING like what you're describing. I vote that you keep your dog on the same food - if you just change something else in her environment, it will likely only make her more miserable in the long run because her digestive system will need to readjust for the new food.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

If this were my dog I would be seeing an internal medicine specialist instead of flip-flopping between two general practitioners. In your posts that you linked to you describe "something she's been infected with since last august." And it is all sounding respiratory from what I briefly read. There are a handful of things I can think of off hte top of my head that are respiratory and have chronic signs like this and none of them are what I'd want going on in my dog.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

What should I be asking about? What types of things?

And, where do I go to find those types of specialists?

edit: I should note that, not all the "problems" have been of this type. Some of them can be traced back to events, such as the nose and the eye. There are fairly large gaps between problems.

another edit: Heart worm tests AND blood tests were done(2 months ago, roughly), and came back negative. She had a chest x ray done (also approximately 2 months ago), which didn't show a whole lot. My wife is concerned about a heart problem, but you'd think either a) it would show up on either of those tests, or b) she is too young to have a heart problem.


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## Charis (Jul 12, 2009)

undervenued said:


> What should I be asking about? What types of things?
> 
> And, where do I go to find those types of specialists?
> 
> ...


lol - too young to have a heart problem. 

Find a vet you trust and then do just that - trust them. It's one thing to ask questions about medication, diagnosis, etc. to be a well informed owner it's an entirely different one to just keep flip flopping vets because they are not able to cure your dog. 
You may be able to seek help by sending the records to a vet college. Ask for a referral.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Internet forums are amazing places. 
If you follow one vet, you get told to get a second opinion. 

When you get a second opinion, you are told to trust one vet and not "flip-flop"

I had been with the first vet since we got our first pets, six or seven years ago.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

This is why you need a vet whom you have complete trust in. Relapses happen or sometimes new symptoms appear. Sometimes the first diagnosis won't be correct. It is hard to diagnose a dog who cannot describe what they are feeling and who is not showing any positive test results. 

Flip-flopping vets or doctors is not the same as getting a second opinion. Getting a second opinion means getting a diagnosis from another vet. Flip-flopping is going back and forth between two different diagnosis and the prescribed procedures for each. It is appropriate to get a second opinion when your trusted vet cannot successfully diagnose the problem after a couple attempts. 

Long story short, you need a vet with which you have complete trust in. You need to be open to trying different solutions with that vet. Immediately going to a new vet you've never been to before because you did not agree with the original vet's diagnosis was not the correct action to take. My suggestion is to decide which vet you want to continue to see. Have trust in them and discuss your concerns with them instead of moving onto another vet.


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## Charis (Jul 12, 2009)

undervenued said:


> Internet forums are amazing places.
> If you follow one vet, you get told to get a second opinion.
> 
> When you get a second opinion, you are told to trust one vet and not "flip-flop"
> ...


Did you think we are all going to have the same opinion on here? Last time I checked the only thing that is for sure amongst members is that we love our dogs...after that you may not get anyone to agree depending on the subject matter. I am not sure if I should read your comment as sarcastic and joking or you rolling your eyes and thinking "that's alot of help" - either way we are all going to differ to some degree on what we would do in the circumstances. Good luck with whatever you do.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Charis said:


> Did you think we are all going to have the same opinion on here? Last time I checked the only thing that is for sure amongst members is that we love our dogs...after that you may not get anyone to agree depending on the subject matter. I am not sure if I should read your comment as sarcastic and joking or you rolling your eyes and thinking "that's alot of help" - either way we are all going to differ to some degree on what we would do in the circumstances. Good luck with whatever you do.


True, very true. 
The good news is that she is doing much better right now. No hacking at all, and her nose was actually a little cool and damp


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

canine nutritionist said:


> Dog food allergy...get her off whatever she is eating and buy a good grain free food. Prairie, Wellness, Innova are all good choices. Do this immediately...don't ween her off the other start right away. If you can, you first need to have her eat some yogurt to help restore the natural balance in the intestine. If she is lactose intolorate...skip this part. Send me a reply on her health please!


Prairie is NOT grainfree! It's made by Nature's Variety, they also make Instinct which IS grainfree! Just wanted to clarify



Roloni said:


> Try Chicken and Rice..
> No Dog food...
> Throw some greens into the mix ..and some vanilla ice cream after dinner.
> 
> I know what dogs like..


 did you know that chicken and rice are both fairly high on the allergen list?

'where do you live? We may be able to direct you to specialists. I had a dog that needed an ophthalmologist (sp), internist and neurologist; he was able to see all three during one very long visit at a specialty hospital in MA


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Any chance this could be a bad kennel cough? The symptoms seem to match

Ok, so, since I can't shake this horrible feeling that something is just being missed. 

So tomorrow morning, I am dropping Lexi off at the vet, and they are going to do another chest x ray, plus (against my better judgement), sedating her and doing a head x ray. 

Hopefully we are on the right path.


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## canine nutritionist (Jul 16, 2011)

What exactly did I say that made you think I was joking. I have a degree on the subject and was trying to help! Vets don't know it all!!!!!


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

canine nutritionist said:


> What exactly did I say that made you think I was joking. I have a degree on the subject and was trying to help! Vets don't know it all!!!!!


lol, what????


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

It has nothing to do with food allergies. If that's what you're getting at. Though I am still not sure what you are getting at......


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Got the culture done. 

The vet said it showed a staph infection, aswell as another that I can't think of the name. 

She is on 3 weeks of Baytril now. 

I thought staph infections were external? 

What are her chances of recovery? 

Her x ray showed everything else to be ok (heart, lungs,etc)


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## amynrichie (Sep 3, 2008)

I like definitive diagnoses such as the culture! Very glad the x rays turned out ok. It sounded like she improved on the abx before, so hopefully the 3 week course will be enough to finally kick the infection once and for all!


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

amynrichie said:


> I like definitive diagnoses such as the culture! Very glad the x rays turned out ok. It sounded like she improved on the abx before, so hopefully the 3 week course will be enough to finally kick the infection once and for all!


It was funny. They wanted to sedate her and get the sample foe the culture. I asked if I could just get it myself, as she usually spits up every morning. So there I was, Saturday morning, getting a sample with two giant q tips. 

I have read up and staph infections seem pretty bad. Hopefully she is on the right track now. 

It would definitely explain why she has had so many issues over the last few months. The mess we were giving her would work, but not take it away completely!


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## runwithperseverance (Dec 18, 2008)

I am just curious, but did they do the x-ray of her head? You said her heart and lungs looked normal, but I was wondering if they saw anything in her nasal passages or throat. Also, did they do a fungal culture, or just bacterial? With a chronic problem involving sneezing, nasal discharge, and a hacking cough, I would also worry about a fungal infection. If the Baytril doesn't help, I would suggest you find a place where the vet can do endoscopy of her nasal passage and larynx.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Thank you for the reply!
Her throat was clear. That's as far up as they went with the x ray. If this doesn't help with the hacking, then we will definitely be taking her to get her nasal passage checked out. I guess that involves taking her to a special clinic, which I am fine with. 

I am pretty sure they did a fungal and a bacterial culture. I had two different swabs to take, and the vet said they were two different types (but i can't remember what)

Just to update her condition: she hadn't hacked anything up in a couple days, but did hack up once this morning, though it was right after i gave her the pill, so maybe that had something to do with it. She's in good spirits, though she is becoming a very picky eater. Not sure if it's the medicine, or if it's that ive been trying so much to get her to eat... She has never been a big eater.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

undervenued said:


> Thank you for the reply!
> Her throat was clear. That's as far up as they went with the x ray. If this doesn't help with the hacking, then we will definitely be taking her to get her nasal passage checked out. I guess that involves taking her to a special clinic, which I am fine with.
> 
> I am pretty sure they did a fungal and a bacterial culture. I had two different swabs to take, and the vet said they were two different types (but i can't remember what)
> ...


Just a quick thought for you: don't worry so much about her eating while she is sick. Of course you want to have her eat, and it is okay to offer her rice and boiled chicken until she is all better and the infection is gone. 

She may be put off from her regular kibble for good after this. I know that IME my dogs have been really put off from their food after getting sick. I changed formula and everything was fine. I think it must be a similar reaction as humans often have when they get food poisoning. One bad experience with a particular food and thats it for life!


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Even with her on the Baytril?
I thought loss of appetite is a bad thing when it comes to that medication..... 
though I could be going by my experience with using it on guinea pigs....


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

undervenued said:


> Even with her on the Baytril?
> I thought loss of appetite is a bad thing when it comes to that medication.....
> though I could be going by my experience with using it on guinea pigs....



Contact the Vet on those specific questions; I have no experience with Baytril. Loss of appetite, especially in a picky dog, to me is not an immediate red flag. When Ozzie had Pancreatitis/Gastroenteritis he was on rice/chicken for over a week. After that he refused his normal kibble because it was the same as what he was eating when he got sick. After I changed the formula/flavor, he was fine.

If you dog is refusing chicken/rice definitely contact your Vet. I was just suggesting that changing the kibble after she is healthy again might help her regain her appetite.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

+two said:


> Contact the Vet on those specific questions; I have no experience with Baytril. Loss of appetite, especially in a picky dog, to me is not an immediate red flag. When Ozzie had Pancreatitis/Gastroenteritis he was on rice/chicken for over a week. After that he refused his normal kibble because it was the same as what he was eating when he got sick. After I changed the formula/flavor, he was fine.
> 
> If you dog is refusing chicken/rice definitely contact your Vet. I was just suggesting that changing the kibble after she is healthy again might help her regain her appetite.


I'll try chicken and rice.. i've been adding some things to her food, which she goes nuts for... she picks around her regular kibble!


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Chicken and rice is kind of the chosen meal for all sick dogs. You really can't go wrong. 

Just make sure the chicken is skinless and boneless. Chicken breasts are perfect, but don't put any seasoning on it. Just boil them until cooked. Also, cook the rice a little overdone. It should be just slightly mushy. Very bland, but thats what she needs. I would skip putting the kibble in for the first few days and just stick to a chicken/rice diet 2 to 4 times a day. Once she starts recovering and the Vet approves, move back to kibble. Again, I'd try a different flavor/formula if she is refusing it.


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## lizbethc38 (Sep 13, 2007)

I had bad experiences with local vets with Muggsy..put my trust in them & they failed. 
The advice for a teaching hospital is a good one if you have one near you. We are lucky that we have the UF Small & Large Animal hospital an hour & a half away. I will never take Muggsy anywhere else again.
As an aside, a co-worker was having similar nasal issues w/his cat & 2 local vets couldn't help. They had scheduled an appt. w/a 3rd vet when I suggested UF. Cat is doing just fine now! 
Good luck!


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

I know that this is a bit of an older post, but i thinkinhave a few things to add. First of all, i have husky and they, as a breed, have sensitive tummys. So don't be surprised if she either vomits the rice back up or just refuses to eat it. When delilah refused to eat after surgery we decided that chicken and potatoes were good way to go. Huskies in particular do much better on a grain free diet. 


As for the royal canin, you really should switch....like I said huskies don't do well on grains . Just switch to something of comparable price that's grain free. My girl loves blue buffalo wilderness salmon. And honestly it's about the same price as royal can in. If that's too expensive, CostCo has pretty good grain free food and it's actually rated Higher than royal canin. I'm not sYng you aren't a good pet-parent, but the last thing you need with all the sickness is malnutrition.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Charis said:


> lol - too young to have a heart problem.
> 
> Find a vet you trust and then do just that - trust them. It's one thing to ask questions about medication, diagnosis, etc. to be a well informed owner it's an entirely different one to just keep flip flopping vets because they are not able to cure your dog.
> You may be able to seek help by sending the records to a vet college. Ask for a referral.


 
A dog is never 'too young' for a heart problem, I lost a Mastiff to a heart condition at 15 months old. Any animal at any age can have a congenital heart defect that can cause problems. However this particular problem doesn't sound like a heart problem but an upper resperitory issue either from a seasonal allergy or a bacterial/viral infection.


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

Just a thought on sensitive stomach and antibiotics used to treat bacterial infections. You may want to give some yogurt for a few days to calm the stomach.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi all,
Lexi doesn't seem to be having any upset stomach problems, but is rather just being a picky eater. 

She seems to be doing okay, if we mix in something that she really likes. One of her favorites is this wet food that comes in a blue can. It's apparently all organic, or all natural, or something. 

Is the Royal Canin supposed to be a good food? We just went with it, because that's what she was eating when we got her, and they said it was a premium food. It was definitely not a pricing issue.

All in all, she is doing very well. No hacking in almost two weeks. Her medicine is done this Wednesday, so i'm sure the vet will want to x ray her again to make sure it's done with.

edit: thought i'd post a picture of her, in case anyone wants to see it..


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Royal Canin really is not good food. it's better than Purina and Iams, but that's not saying much.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Well, here we are: the start of 2012!!!!

And poor Lexi is still going through this whole ordeal.

Her reverse-sneezing, normal sneezing, horrible looking eyes, came back again in mid October. Our vet referred us to the university about an hour away. The university gave Lexi a scope up her nasal passage, and did another culture on the fluid in her lungs, and did some sort of fecal check. The culture came back negative (no worms, no infection). The fecal check also showed nothing. 

The nasal scope showed some inflammation, but no foreign objects. They prescribed her prednisone, to be taken over a 20 day course. This worked very well! She gained something like five pounds, was happy, healthy, and insanely active! 

They diagnosed it as chronic bronchitis, and said it would most likely be something that might need to be treated once a year or so

Then, Christmas day came. She started to do those inward sneezes again, but also this time she was doing an insane amount of scratching. 

BACK TO THE VET AGAIN WE GO!

This time, they put her on the prednisone again, and wanted us to switch to a different food, which is some sort of allergy food, and to stop giving her treats, and take away her rawhides. 

The itching went away almost immediately after taking the first pill. 

Iam looking for advice on this: am I being given the runaround by these people? 

If it is, in fact, allergies, how do I control it? I know it's bad for her to be on prednisone for long periods of time. What else can be done? What if she goes right back into this, even with the allergy food? 

I will do anything to help her.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Try Taste of the Wild Pacific Salmon or High Prairie formula. Leave her on it for at least 6 weeks. Use pieces of the kibble as treats. Do not give other treats.

Chicken, beef, and now lamb are the most common allergens in food (common proteins are more likely to be allergens than anything else food related). Next most likely are grains. TOTW foods are grain free and use alternative protein sources.

Do not stop prednisone suddenly. It can cause a lot of problems, including death. They need to be weaned off it.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

I'll have to look for that. Can food allergies cause a lot of external scratching? 

I am wondering if it's a bad allergy to dust maybe.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

undervenued said:


> I'll have to look for that. Can food allergies cause a lot of external scratching?
> 
> I am wondering if it's a bad allergy to dust maybe.


External scratching is VERY common with food allergies.

If you use a spot on type flea/tick treatment, it can cause itching and respiratory issues in some dogs. Especially if it is a Hartz product.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

my one dog has an undetermined allergy and had to be on prednisone for over a month ... a couple rounds of it. I switched to TOTW Pacific Stream. Every dog is different and I am not a vet .... but I found that my dogs allergy began to clear up after a couple of months of changing his food. Good luck .... it is soooo frustrating! I know!

Before and after pics ......................


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

So there is hope yet? I feel very helpless in all of this.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

undervenued said:


> So there is hope yet? I feel very helpless in all of this.


It can be a very helpless feeling because we do not like to see our pets suffer needlessly and we always think there is something we can do to fix it. Hang in there.  My allergy dog was like this most of last summer and early fall. He just now started looking and feeling his normal self again. If I give him any poultry ... he immediatly starts to get itchy. I experimented.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

If you don't want to allergy testing, you may want to avoid these ingredients. I got the list from a friend who got it from Tufts. The list is chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice and flax. My dog cannot have yeast as well. Not only do you need to watch food but treats and supplements. I once gave Boobe salmon oil then realized a secondary ingredient is soy. Try salmon oil, raw u filtered applevcider vinegar (I put it in their food, starting with a few drops)


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

I found this interesting. 

Lexi seemed to have not solid bowl movements for the longest time. It wasn't diahreah, but not solid. 

Since being on this allergy friendly food, she has had none of that. 

Would allergies cause that, or is it that her old food was a canned wet food?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Yes, allergies and sensitivities will cause that as well as food that's too 'rich'.


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## kali shey (Jan 11, 2012)

...............


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## KelseyRose (Dec 16, 2011)

When I got my Lhasa, she was on Royal Canine, so that's what I bought her too. I took her to petco to get groomed only a week after I got her, because she was having..well to put it bluntly her poop was blocking her hole and just matting into her fur. Since she was only 10 weeks, petco was the only place I could take her ( I don't recommend petco for the record). The groomer there told me that Royal Canine was a GREAT food. However, she progressively got sicker. Royal Canine is an AWFUL food! I had to put her on rice and cottage cheese, and she LOVED it! As nasty as it was to make, she ate it up. I now have her on Blue Buffalo all natural puppy food, and she is better then ever. So I guess you could maybe try rice and cottage cheese, since it's the most bland you can get ( I think.) Good Luck, I hope your little girl gets better soon! I've been through all sorts of vets and hoops with my girl too, so I know how you feel.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi (again) everyone,
Well, we are just a couple of days away from Lexi being done her latest round of the Prednisone. She has been GREAT. No itching, no sneezing, nothing out of the ordinary. 
The vet gave us some food to try, called MEDI-CAL SENSITIVITY RC. We were told to keep her completely off her treats, rawhides, etc, which has been very tough. We have definintely slipped a few times along the way with this. 

I am trying to prepare myself for when she is off of the medication, and all the symptoms come back. What do I do next? I am trying to digest as much internet information I can about allergies in dogs, but the searches are very tough, as most sites talk about humans being allergic TO dogs, not dogs being allergic to something else. 

I'm also looking for some moral support, as I am feeling very beat up over everything. Will I ever figure this out? Will I lose her? What if everything we try STILL results in her scratching? How long after trying someting should we see results? What if it is something that is EVERYWHERE, such as dust?

edit: I also wanted to ask: What is involved in having her tested for what she is allergic to? Is anyone from around the London, Ontario, Canada area that would know of a vet that does this?


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

I am by far not overly educated in this area but I did want to say that I've been following this thread and keeping my hopes up that a solution to Lexi's problem will be found. I also want to say that you are doing a great job. Not many people would have been willing to put up with all of this, but it sounds like you and Lexi have a great bond and care deeply for each other. 

My first dog, Tucker, had severe allergies. I found that medication during peak allergy season and a change in diet really helped him. Sometimes it would get worse again, but for the most part he did very well just on the diet change alone. He was mostly allergic to environmental allergens such as grass, but he also was quite sensitive to a host of other things. 

My best advice would be to wait and see what happens after the prednisone. If everything comes back again and you are at square one, I would seriously consider making the trip to the nearest veterinary teaching hospital and seeing a specialist. In my case, our local Vet was great for the routine stuff, but really failed us miserably when it came to Tuckers special needs. 

Thanks for keeping us updated on her...


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Thank you. Yes, Lexi and I are very close! 

Back in October, we took her to the University of Guelph teaching hospital. After doing a nasal scope, and taking a sample of whatever was in her lungs, they said she had a case of chronic bronchitis, that might have to be treated once a year or so. 

But that seems to not be the case


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## dustinshaw98 (Feb 22, 2012)

Chicken and a little rice works! I've tried it.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

undervenued said:


> Hi (again) everyone,
> Well, we are just a couple of days away from Lexi being done her latest round of the Prednisone. She has been GREAT. No itching, no sneezing, nothing out of the ordinary.
> The vet gave us some food to try, called MEDI-CAL SENSITIVITY RC. We were told to keep her completely off her treats, rawhides, etc, which has been very tough. We have definintely slipped a few times along the way with this.
> 
> ...


I just checked the ingredients of that food, not very great to say the least. 

Rice, Catfish Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Fat, Rice Gluten, Natural Flavour, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (DL-Alpha-Tocopherol [Source of Vitamin E], Inositol, Niacin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate [Source of Vitamin C], D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Riboflavin [Vitamin B2], Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement and Vitamin D3 Supplement) and Trace Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulphate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate and Sodium Selenite). Naturally Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract and Citric Acid. Approximately 227 kcal/cup, 342 kcal/100 g, 66 g/cup


There isn't very much meat in this and cellulose, which is basically sawdust, is the third ingredient. I don't understand how it is for dogs with sensitivities or allergies when it contains rice, wood, and soybean oil. Primarily grain based.

Have you tried taking her off Royal Canin yet? She may just be allergic to grains, which is in basically every Royal Canin formula. It is really a low quality food, and there are other foods out there with much higher quality ingredients. I really suggest you try something like Taste of the Wild. 

Is raw a possibility? That could be the best thing for a dog with sensitivities. An all natural, 100% preservative and grain free diet. Some dogs just can't handle all the extra stuff they put into commercial dog food.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

^ this. I would give the prednisone a chance and hope. If her allergies/symptoms persist, I would go raw. It is a lot of extra work/research and can be more expensive, but would be well worth it in your case.

Yes, I remember now that they said bronchitis. She might of very well had a case of bronchitis, but clearly that is not the reason she is so ill. At that hospital, is there an allergy specialist?


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Isn't long term use of prednisone a bad thing? I worry she has been on that too long. 

I think we are going to definitely try the above mentioned natural food next. I had no idea the MEDI CAL was that bad!! I'm surprised that my vet would give us that, actually. 

I'm not sure if the university of Guelph has an allergy expert. I'll have to look into that too. 

I thank you all for your advice and support. Since my wife and I have no children, Lexi is our baby!


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

undervenued said:


> Isn't long term use of prednisone a bad thing? I worry she has been on that too long.
> 
> I think we are going to definitely try the above mentioned natural food next. I had no idea the MEDI CAL was that bad!! *I'm surprised that my vet would give us that, actually. *
> 
> ...


Vets are notorious for their faulty nutritional advice. They receive very little nutritional info and what they do get is "health info" by representatives of companies like Royal Canin and Hills. The vets also make money every time you buy food from them, as a kick back from the companies. I don't take any nutritional advice from my vet unless I researched it first. As many animals as vets save, they still don't know a lot about animal nutrition. For example, my vet said never to give dogs raw meat because they can get diseases like toxoplasmosis and die. I was thinking, Um well then what the hell did they eat before kibble came along 60 years ago? Some people don't realize, but raw diets are a new thing or a new fad. Kibble is. Dogs have been eating raw for hundreds and thousands of years. Dog's stomachs are not made to digest grains of any kind. 

Vets just sometimes don't know what they are talking about. Not all vets, but most.

Edit: not sure about the prednisone thing, but I would think that being on any kind of medication for long periods of time would be sort of harmful. Not really sure though.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

It's amazing how much that makes sense. The only place I could find that food is at the vet. 

What is proper protocol for changing food like this? Do I slowly phase in the new food, or just change it out?

Edit: what is involved in raw diets? Do you actually feed them uncooked food? (dumb question of the day)


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

If you are switching from dry food to dry food then I would do a transition of 7-10 days. I would probably do closer to at least 10 days. On the first day do like 90-95% old food, and 5-10% new food. If everything seems fine, the next day do 85-90% old food and 10-15% new food. Third day, 80-85% old food and 15-20% new food, and so on. I am not sure how sensitive her tummy is, but you can do a slower transition if you feel it is necessary on her. Getting her onto a healthy diet is important but making sure not to upset her tummy is even more important, that is why I suggest the sloooow transition.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

it is easy to get frustrated at a vet. People doctors have a hard time diagnosing things properly and their patients can talk with them and tell them every problem. Sometimes there are 10 different reasons a dog might be having certain symptoms and it goes by working on a diagnoses which costs $$$. To properly diagnose something of this nature , blood work and chest x-rays are a MUST. If it was not suggested to do these things by the vet then that was not properly handled. If you declined them then there is no blame on the vets. If the blood work and x-rays have been done and STILL nothing has improved then it means your specific case is a little more rare and harder to diagnose. 

however i will mention that dogs allergies mostly present themselves as a skin condition.

the hacking and the phlegm is classic symptoms of a severe kennel cough turned pneumonia over time. 

in this case just like with people a thorough aggressive treatment of antibiotics is needed. Your vet should have had you continue them it can take time for a infection that has been long lasting to get better.
http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/respiratory/c_dg_canine_tracheobronchitis#.T0wEAnlS3Kd


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

We've done the whole gauntlet of tests on Lexi.

Blood wok came back fine. 
Stool sample showed nothing. 
Culture of the sample from her lungs came back clear. 
Chest x ray showed nothing. 

I am starting to think that perhaps when this all started, she had a couple of problems at once. 

Or maybe one thing caused another, as in, the allergies that inflamed her nasal passage caused "stuff" to build up in her lungs and get infected. 

Her Health has been PERFECT while on the prednisone.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

With her getting better on prednisone, sounds like an auto-immune disease. Siberians can have a zinc definciancy Here is an article on this disease. I see your dog has husky in it. Just a thought.
http://www.vetinfo.com/zinc-deficiency-in-dogs.html


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

Then i agree with you here. If you have seen improvements with your dog on pred and you previously mentioned the antibiotic. then to me if it worked then the vet should treat it with a combination of that. maybe a stronger anti-biotic. You are right to be annoyed with them. if something is working then use it! a lot of vets don't like to use pred that long because of its side effects, but sometimes its more important for the dog to get better.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

luv mi pets said:


> With her getting better on prednisone, sounds like an auto-immune disease. Siberians can have a zinc definciancy Here is an article on this disease. I see your dog has husky in it. Just a thought.
> http://www.vetinfo.com/zinc-deficiency-in-dogs.html


This is interesting. I will all it to my list of things to try. She HAS had a lot of infections since we got her: both ears, one eye, nose, and something with her pee when she was first with us.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Lexi has been on the Taste Of The Wild Salmon food since last weekend, and has maybe three days since we stopped mixing her old food in. 

How long before the other stuff would be completely out of her system? When can I try and take her off the medicine?


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Update on Lexi: 
We stopped the steroids. Thursday night was her last dose. She hasn't scratched, sneezed, or don anything yet. This makes me optimistic, as just before we changed her food, she got her pill at 9pm instead of 9am and was already scratching. Her fur also feels incredibly good, which is nice, and she isn't losing much of it!

BUT: I woke up this morning to hear sounds of her throwing up. I went to investigate, and saw two little spots, no food in them, just stomach acids. Right next to these spots lay a little plastic squeaker out of one of her toys, stained yellow. My brain tells me that squeaker is PROBABLY the cause, but, my mind works in mysterious ways. I then wondered if the throw up was from or having the medication, or, even worse, was she ON the medication too long, and now something inside of her is ruined, causing the throw up? 

She is back to her old self now, and actually was right after realizing that I wasn't going to yell at her for it. Am I over reacting?


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Give her a week or two on the new food to see if that helps a bit. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the throw up for right now. If it continues to happen, then there is definitely more to look into. 


Keep us updated.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Glad to hear you finally are trying Taste of the Wild. It really sounds like a food allergy to me. It may take up to a month to see a difference on the food.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

It's almost 72 hours since her last prednisone dose, and even that dose was pretty small (1/8th of a pill daily, as we have been weaning her off it. 

Wish us luck. It's been a long road! 

On a brighter note, on Friday we celebrated TWO years since Lexi came to live with us.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

A squeaky toy! Hope all goes well for you and your dog on the new food. Prednisone is a great med but it is a medication I would not want my dogs on for long periods of time. 

Did Lexi get a party for her celebration of two years?


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Definitely! Since she is on a strict diet I couldn't give her snacks. 

So instead she got an extra hour of fight time, and probably two-times her regular walk time


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Hope the diet works ... and it all clears up. I made treats out of prescription dog food by baking it at 350 degrees for about 30-40 minutes and then froze them. ... I cut the dog food from the can into strips first. Depending on what kind of dog food you are feeding ... it would be a possibility. Although the fight time and extra walks are much healthier. 

Keep us posted.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Well, Lexi is back to inward sneezing and sounding really snorts and congested. The weird part about this flare up is, no scratching at all. 
I think it's about time she goes to see a different vet, to get a fresh perspective on things. 

I'm wonderingif maybe the old food (she is still on the Taste Of athe Wild) was only part of the cause of this. 

The other part is where I get baffled. She is mainly inside, aside from her walks and outside time. She is rarely in contact with other dogs. So it has to be something in the house, wouldn't that make sense? What it it is something extremely common like dust? How would I ever control that??

I want her off this prednisone for good. I'm so worried that her being on it (off and on) for 7 months is going to hurt her. 


Am I on the right track?


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I would also get a fresh perspective on this. It could be environmental. I know due to the mild winter the allergy season is to be triple what the norm is ... at least here where I am located. It is hard to keep these environmental allergies from entering your house. The dog goes outside ... it is inhaled and caught in the fur. 

House dust ... dust mites are a huge issue to some. Extra cleaning, plastic covers on all mattresses, putting stuffed toys in the dryer for 10 minutes to kill the mites .... extra dusting .... removing carpeting ...much of this is done for humans ... I know ... I took care of my Mother who had severe allergies to dust mites. This does not mean you need to go to these extremes ..... just a thought.

Blu Boy ended up being sensitive to fragrances .... I quit using fabric softener in the bedding. He sleeps with my Dad in the bed. It helped. He is now normal. 

I too would not want my dog kept on prednisone for a long period of time. But this is all my opinion. I have taken prednisone and I know what it is like. It is a miracle drug with long term side effects.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

That's another thing: exactly what is considered "long term"?

Would seven months, on and off, be considered long term?


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

undervenued said:


> That's another thing: exactly what is considered "long term"?
> 
> Would seven months, on and off, be considered long term?


Long term to me is like having to take it as a controller medicine on a daily basis for months or years. My Mother had to at the end of her life because of her copd .... at the end stages of her disease her kidneys began to shut down. Whether the cause be the disease or the prednisone or the combination ... I cannot truly say ..... nor can I truly say what long term is for a canine. I just would look into it and get another opinion from another qualified vet or specialist if need be. But once again .... that is just me.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

She's got an appointment with a new vet Tuesday. 

This vet came highly recommended by my dad.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

undervenued said:


> She's got an appointment with a new vet Tuesday.
> 
> This vet came highly recommended by my dad.


Good.  Let us know how it turns out. It is so frustrating not being able to find the cause of our dogs illness's. Good luck with the new vet!


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

It's the worst. And it's not as if we have been avoiding the problem or not wanting to go to the vet: she's been all over!

What's really annoying, is when we lived in our apartment after getting married, we had guinea pigs. Within a year, we had NOTHING but health problems with them. It scares me to think about how much we spent on vet bills for them.


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

Have you considered asking your vet for a referral to someone who does allergy testing? With everything you've done, it seems like it would be worth the expense just to have some answers. There are blood tests and intradermal tests available. Here's a link.


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## undervenued (Mar 26, 2011)

Hey everyone,

Lexi had her appointment with the vet last night. This vet basically said that we have and are doing everything right. 

She said to absolutely NOT be afraid of treating her with the prednisone, because at the amount we are giving her, it is next to nothing. She has had dogs smaller than Lexi be on higher doses until they were 9 or 10 with no issues. 

I'm happy to hear that but at the same time a little skeptical because of what I've heard about prolonged prednisone use. 

She said that, because her symptoms seem to be asthma caused by respiratory allergens, testing would be hard and probably inconclusive. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Good to hear something positive! 

The only thing I know about lungs and prednisone is that with copd ( Asthma, Emphysema, Bronchitis )... long term prednisone use keeps it under control the majority of the time. My Mother had to do this at the end of her copd disease. The prednisone did not kill her but actually helped to prolong her life a bit. The disease and a broken hip ended her life.

I also have copd ... hopefully I can keep it maintained with just controller meds like steroids ... and maybe get hit by a bus or something instead! Lol! 

Other than this ... that is what I can attest to firsthand. 

EDIT: On another note ... if it keeps her asthma under control IMHO ... it is a good thing ... it really is [email protected]#$%^&L! not being able to breathe.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

undervenued said:


> It's amazing how much that makes sense. The only place I could find that food is at the vet.
> 
> What is proper protocol for changing food like this? Do I slowly phase in the new food, or just change it out?
> 
> Edit: what is involved in raw diets? Do you actually feed them uncooked food? (dumb question of the day)



You are in Ontario, right? 
Carnivora is a company that makes whole animal patties. www.carnivora.ca
They have a bunch of different meats, all in frozen patty form - if the taste of the wild doesn't make a difference then I'd try this instead. Yes, it's raw, but it's ideal for dogs with health issues where nothing else works. You can contact them for help too, and feed regular meat and bones if you're comfortable, but the patties are a good start and easy enough for most people to do. There's other raw companies that are likely available, but make sure they don't have too many ingredients. I know some add flax and so on to the patty mix...


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## Angiemas (9 mo ago)

undervenued said:


> This is interesting. I will all it to my list of things to try. She HAS had a lot of infections since we got her: both ears, one eye, nose, and something with her pee when she was first with us.


Same here we just adapted a bulldog , nothing but problems can you give me an update?


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## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

This thread is 11 years old and the original poster hasn't logged into the forums since 2015. I'm closing this to further replies to avoid confusion - please try to avoid reviving old threads in the future! But of course you can join in any of our current discussions, or start new threads about your pup.


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