# Where is the best place to get a dog from, breeder or rescue?



## bulldoglover (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm interested to hear peoples views on where to get a new dog - do you go to a breeder or visit a rescue center?


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

I think that totally depends on what you want from a dog. One isn't better than another. 

That said, there are certain breeds that I would only suggest going through a breeder for.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I go to rescues.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

you need to interview both venues extensively. Find the right (Individual) to work with. Both of those venues can be overwhelmed and understaffed for caring for the dogs. And being able to listen to what your looking for to insure you have a good match, and will provide support after you get your new pup/dog. There is no right and wrong direction there are just wrong Indiviuals to get involved with.


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## bulldoglover (Jan 5, 2013)

I think finding the right individual is key - there are so many wrong people out there


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## bulldoglover (Jan 5, 2013)

I suppose as well you have to think hard about what you want and weigh up the pros and cons of both options.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I will only go to breeders from now on.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> I will only go to breeders from now on.


out of curiosity, why?

Edit: all of my pet dogs and most of my fosters have been rescues. The guide dog (fosters) come from a very specific breeding program.

I work at the SPCA in our area and I think that rescue is an excellent option for a lot of situations and families. In the cases where it isnt (for one reason or another) I have no problem with seeking out a dog from a responsible breeder.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Rescued said:


> out of curiosity, why?
> 
> Edit: all of my pet dogs and most of my fosters have been rescues. The guide dog (fosters) come from a very specific breeding program.
> 
> I work at the SPCA in our area and I think that rescue is an excellent option for a lot of situations and families. In the cases where it isnt (for one reason or another) I have no problem with seeking out a dog from a responsible breeder.


I lead a very specific lifestyle and I need to make sure my dogs are going to fit in and work out... Both physically speaking and health wise. Dock diving, agility, flyball, frisbee and herding all need dogs of very sound physical frame. I got lucky with Frag, but he had a crappy temperament and can't do half of what I'd like... I have no idea how any puppy in a rescue is going to turn out as far as drives and temperament plus health, and I don't like adopting adult dogs because I've had nothing but trouble with the adult dogs I've adopted, the learning time is greater, they're harder to integrate, and there is less of a bond IMO. 

Going to a breeder who is breeding for exactly what I want is my best choice and it's what I will be doing from now on. I've worked in numerous shelters, and I foster dogs constantly... I feel I've done my part with rescue and don't need to feel bad about breeding or buying.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> I lead a very specific lifestyle and I need to make sure my dogs are going to fit in and work out... Both physically speaking and health wise. Dock diving, agility, flyball, frisbee and herding all need dogs of very sound physical frame. I got lucky with Frag, but he had a crappy temperament and can't do half of what I'd like... I have no idea how any puppy in a rescue is going to turn out as far as drives and temperament plus health, and I don't like adopting adult dogs because I've had nothing but trouble with the adult dogs I've adopted, the learning time is greater, they're harder to integrate, and there is less of a bond IMO.
> 
> Going to a breeder who is breeding for exactly what I want is my best choice and it's what I will be doing from now on. I've worked in numerous shelters, and I foster dogs constantly... I feel I've done my part with rescue and don't need to feel bad about breeding or buying.


Again, just curious. How many of your future "breeder" dogs would you expect to work out as planned, by going into it as a puppy? Just wondering as I consider puppies such a crapshoot if you have specific needs. The organization I work with has been breeding guide dogs for decades, refining their breeding program, and there are still dogs that don't make it for one reason or another. How much do you expect your "odds" to improve by going through a breeder (versus a rescued puppy subject to the same initial breed search/temperment test that a breeder pup would be), if that makes sense?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Rescued said:


> Again, just curious. How many of your future "breeder" dogs would you expect to work out as planned, by going into it as a puppy? Just wondering as I consider puppies such a crapshoot if you have specific needs. The organization I work with has been breeding guide dogs for decades, refining their breeding program, and there are still dogs that don't make it for one reason or another. How much do you expect your "odds" to improve by going through a breeder (versus a rescued puppy subject to the same initial breed search/temperment test that a breeder pup would be), if that makes sense?


Hopefully at least 75-80% would work out as planned or I should be finding a new breeder. XD

A puppy is a crapshoot entirely, but I'm not getting adult dogs, especially from a shelter. My experiences with adoptees and fosters has been terrible. If I needed to completely know what I was getting, I would buy adult from a breeder. I'd rather take my chances with a puppy though.


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## frillint (Jul 12, 2009)

I have never bought from a breeder. My two cents in this is simple: I wouldn't be alive today if it was not for my mix dog that I got from a shelter.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

It depends on what you want. I have dogs from both breeders and rescues. If i want a puppy, then I will only go to a responsible breeder who does the necessary health testing. If i want an older dog, then it's a shelter or rescue. Due to a sort of bad experience with a shelter, we'll probably be dealing with reputable rescues. This Saturday, we are bringing home an older dog from rescue.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm with InkedMarie that I would only get a puppy from a responsible breeder, but I don't have a problem with getting an adult dog from a shelter/rescue.

I think puppies from the shelter are too big of a risk for me - I want a dog from a breeder with a more predictable health and temperament. Adult dogs already have a developed personality, so I would feel comfortable getting one from a shelter. I'd also prefer a rescue over a city shelter because they tend to know the dogs better and place them with the correct homes. 

My current dog is from a breeder. I was looking for something specific, and I wanted a puppy.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

I would not ever purchase an animal from a breeder. My animals are pets, they're not being trained for any specific purpose for which having a purebred dog would be beneficial.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Where ever you find a dog that suits your needs and wants. They both have their pros, and they both have their cons and its really a matter of what you're looking for (and in some cases, timing).


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

My current dog is a rescue. He was born into foster care.

My next dog will be a show prospect from a responsible breeder. Not because I'm at all unhappy with Garp, he's amazing. But I want a well-bred SBT and I would like to show the dog AND compete in OB.

After that? Who knows. We'll have to see how it goes!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

For me: Breeders, private adoption, or strays. I won't/don't do shelters and rescues. The local shelters are cesspools of disease, and the dogs are so stressed out a reasonable assessment of the dogs is impossible (you are also not allowed to touch them or take them out of the kennels until the adoption paperwork is signed, for liability reason, adding to that). Rescues I have worked with, and while their heart is in the right place, for an assortment of reasons they are not a place I would choose to get a dog.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

I've only had two dogs thus far. My first was over 20 years ago. She was a Shih Tzu and she came to me from a friend who'd bred her female, in what I now realize was basically BYB situation. She was raised with her mother & littermates until I took her home at 8 weeks & she was awesome.

I adopted Molly, my current dog, from a rescue group when she was 10 weeks old. The foster home did an absolutely beautiful job with the pups, raised them in the heart of the house with their mother, exposed them to normal household noises/activities & she is an absolute delight. I would definitely go the rescue route again with a puppy, either with the same group or another, provided their fostering philosophy is similar to the group Molly came from. 

I'm not personally comfortable with paying a breeder because I'm don't have special needs, like showing, sports or working, to consider. I just want a pet to love & to give a good home to.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I've never adopted a dog from a shelter (but not for lack of trying.) I will, at some point, have a dog from a shelter, because I know at some point I will want another dog, just as a friend, and I would like to get one out of that situation.

However, I want my next PLANNED dog to be a Redbone. I live in the south and they're not hard to find breeder wise, but they are difficult to find in shelters. So, I will be going to a breeder, and likely out of state, to find a responsible one.


As for as breeder vs. shelter goes, I don't feel like there's a better way to go, as far as RESPONSIBLE breeders go. Now, if you're going to stick your money into the pockets of a BYB or someone similar, you may as well go to a shelter and rescue a dog than enable someone like that.


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## MimiAzura (Jan 5, 2013)

Taj is from a backyard breeder and I took in Stella before she starved to death, from my neighbour.

My next dog will be from a registered breeder. 
But only because I want an australian shepherd and have never ever seen one in rescue in my state..


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I get my dogs from breeders only.


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

I have one dog from a shelter. She was two when we adopted her. Sweetest girl ever, no problems at all so far. She is four now.
And i got a five month old puppy from a rescue. Ahe turns one next month. Haven't planned on doing anything specific with her, but turns out she is a nice "working" dog. Best temperament ever and super easy to train. But we have to work on her being shy a lot. Not sure she was abused or just kept in a cage for 5 month.
My next one is probably going to be from a breeder. I really want a chocolate lab or a mali. But i said that before and ended up with a rescue


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

As many people said, deciding to get a dog from a rescue / shelter or a *responsible, ethical* breeder is a matter of your personal situation, intentions, and experiences. There is *never* a reason to consciously seek a dog from a BYB or puppy mill.

When we started looking for a dog, we really wanted to find one from a rescue or shelter. Unfortunately, the rescues in our area made it nearly impossible (we didn't have a fence at the time, were first time dog owners, didn't have an existing dog in the home, and couldn't remember the names of our elementary school principals for character references). After having our hearts broken several times, we decided to search for a reputable breeder and found the perfect pup for us  

Honestly, I'm not sure we would have been prepared to adopt a dog. After reading so many experiences here (thinking about Abbylynn and Amaryllis especially), we would not have been able to handle even minor issues.* I'm a complete dog novice and my husband doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

Having gotten a great dog from a very good breeder, I think, has given us the experience we need to adopt in the future.

* I'm not saying that shelter dogs automatically come with issues, but even just the transition from previous home to shelter / foster to our home can be rocky.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

CptJack said:


> For me: Breeders, private adoption, or strays.


Some of us have never been so lucky to have Kylie "fall" into our laps!


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

cookieface said:


> When we started looking for a dog, we really wanted to find one from a rescue or shelter. Unfortunately, the rescues in our area made it nearly impossible (we didn't have a fence at the time, were first time dog owners, didn't have an existing dog in the home, and couldn't remember the names of our elementary school principals for character references). After having our hearts broken several times, we decided to search for a reputable breeder and found the perfect pup for us


I do think some of the shelter requirements are over the top. I had to fill out something like an 8 page questionnaire to adopt Hamilton, and they had to check my vet reference, and all my cats had to be fixed and UTD on all their vax (I actually went and got them their FVRCP shots that morning even though I don't typically give it). They asked "Why do you want a dog?" and "How big is your yard?" and "Is it fenced in?" -- then asked "How do you plan on keeping your dog in the yard??" and I wrote "The fence" having already checked off that I had one. In the end, they took my word for all the stuff they asked (How long will the dog be alone each day!!) and just called my vet. They did reject a woman who was trying to adopt a cat while I was there because she had two or three dogs already, a toddler, and infant, and one of the dogs wasn't fixed.


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

I grew up with rescue dogs, and my boyfriend grew up with "breeder"dogs. Our puppy is from a breeder that we love and have known for years. He's a rare breed, so he would never have turned up in a rescue. If we get a second dog, I would love it to be an adult rescue. However, Lincoln will not be fixed, as our breeder will use him if he passes all of his tests in a few years. Finding a rescue that will adopt to us with an intact dog in the house will be nearly impossible.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

blenderpie said:


> I grew up with rescue dogs, and my boyfriend grew up with "breeder"dogs. Our puppy is from a breeder that we love and have known for years. He's a rare breed, so he would never have turned up in a rescue. If we get a second dog, I would love it to be an adult rescue. However, Lincoln will not be fixed, as our breeder will use him if he passes all of his tests in a few years. Finding a rescue that will adopt to us with an intact dog in the house will be nearly impossible.


Totally depends on your area!

I hate this personally, but I was lucky to find a rescue to adopt to me and a few to foster for (that would also adopt to me) while I had an intact male in the house.  I do again and can still foster, luckily!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> Some of us have never been so lucky to have Kylie "fall" into our laps!


Yeah, you guys have that overpopulation thing under better control than we do, or seem to. I'm mildly boggled it, but in the best possible way. Shipping puppies in! It actually works out kind of well over all.

On the other hand: *I* have Kylie


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

My next dog will come from a breeder because I'm looking for a breed that is not found in shelter or rescue. I have very specific requirements for this next dog that I feel can be, by far, best fulfilled by this breed. 

I could see myself definitely looking into rescues in the future (particularly rescue greyhounds) but would consider a shelter dog, certainly, if it had the qualities I wanted at the time.

Oh, and...


> As many people said, deciding to get a dog from a rescue / shelter or a responsible, ethical breeder is a matter of your personal situation, intentions, and experiences. There is never a reason to consciously seek a dog from a BYB or puppy mill.


This! Absolutely this!


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

InkedMarie said:


> Some of us have never been so lucky to have Kylie "fall" into our laps!


I'd love to have a Thud kerplunk into our lives when we're ready, but I doubt that will ever happen.



Hambonez said:


> I do think some of the shelter requirements are over the top. I had to fill out something like an *8 page questionnaire* to adopt Hamilton, and they had to check my vet reference, and all my cats had to be fixed and UTD on all their vax (I actually went and got them their FVRCP shots that morning even though I don't typically give it). They asked "Why do you want a dog?" and "How big is your yard?" and "Is it fenced in?" -- then asked "How do you plan on keeping your dog in the yard??" and I wrote "The fence" having already checked off that I had one. In the end, they took my word for all the stuff they asked (How long will the dog be alone each day!!) and just called my vet. They did reject a woman who was trying to adopt a cat while I was there because she had two or three dogs already, a toddler, and infant, and one of the dogs wasn't fixed.


I _wish_ the applications had been 8 pages - most were 15-20. I would have completed them if it seemed as though we had a chance at being approved, but my husband isn't a jump-through-hoops kind of guy.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Either/or. The only absolute "no" to me is BYB/puppy mill. It all depends on what you want and what is available to you. Most people want a pet, a dog that can live in their home, fetch a ball, play with the kids, etc., and I will always recommend an adult rescue first. Millions of rescues available right now can do that, why not give them a home?

But if you need or want to go to an ethical breeder, don't make excuses. I don't need to see a 20 year resume of rescue experience to forgive you. Ethical breeders aren't adding to the overpopulation of dogs in this country. Their dogs aren't crowding shelters. Get your purebred puppy and be proud that you did the research and paid the money to support ethical breeding. 

Either way, educate! Tell people why you rescued and the benefits you received. Tell people why you chose your breeder and not Petland.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Amaryllis said:


> But if you need or want to go to an ethical breeder, don't make excuses. I don't need to see a 20 year resume of rescue experience to forgive you. Ethical breeders aren't adding to the overpopulation of dogs in this country. Their dogs aren't crowding shelters. Get your purebred puppy and be proud that you did the research and paid the money to support ethical breeding.


You'd be surprised how many people will make me feel as guilty as possible about buying a dog and ridicule me and shame me for not adopting until I say that. It seems to be the only thing that gets people to shut the F up when "I wanted one" doesn't seem to do the trick!


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> You'd be surprised how many people will make me feel as guilty as possible about buying a dog and ridicule me and shame me for not adopting until I say that. It seems to be the only thing that gets people to shut the F up when "I wanted one" doesn't seem to do the trick!


*growl* I have no patience for bullies of any sort, even rescuers. The rescue I got Kabota from is run by a border collie breeder. She is tireless in her rescue efforts. She also produces working border collies for working homes to preserve the dogs she loves. Her dogs do not end up in shelters, not the ones she breeds or the ones she rescues.

Ethical breeders are not the enemy. People who buy from ethical breeders are not the enemy. Making them the enemy doesn't help anyone, least of all the dogs. It just turns off people like you from rescue, and that's sad.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

missPenny said:


> I've been ridiculed and judged by a shelter though, and I was VERY offended. When I was 20 my boyfriend and I were visiting his dad and he lives in a very poor area. It's not uncommon to find abandoned animals. There was a woman trying to give away a puppy when we were getting gas. This puppy was no older then 4 weeks tops. She had bought it from someone, and then didn't want it. Probably didn't realize it was too young and couldn't even eat solid food. We told her to bring it to a rescue and not try to give it to strangers. She told us she didn't have time for that. So we took the puppy and brought it to the humane society ourselves. We would have kept it, but we were students, and in no position to have a puppy, and we lived with our parents.
> 
> When we brought the dog in the staff made us feel like the biggest pieces of crap. Dirty looks, disgusted, and didn't believe that this woman was pawning off her puppy at the gas station. Saying how 'puppies aren't away from their mother this young usually' and pointing the finger at us for supporting BYB. When all we were doing was bringing a puppy in, who would have ended up probably dead and left behind at the gas station.


That's a terrible way to treat people, but I can see how it happens. Most people who drop off dogs lie about it in one way or another. "Oh, I found him!" is a common lie. It's easy to become jaded and view everyone as a liar. Studies have shown that police officers and FBI agents become increasingly unable to tell when someone is lying the longer they serve.

That being said, you put on your happy face and be polite. Besides, who wants to irresponsible idiots (if that's what they thought you were) in charge of a barely weaned puppy anyway?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

missPenny said:


> DJEtzel, I know what you mean. Sometimes people become offended you would buy a dog and not rescue one. However, I find a lot of the people who become judgmental, or offended by this , don't understand how a reputable breeder works. I think most of them think that if you don't get a dog from a petstore, then it's from a breeder, and their idea of a breeder is a BYB. This is what I have noticed.





Amaryllis said:


> *growl* I have no patience for bullies of any sort, even rescuers. The rescue I got Kabota from is run by a border collie breeder. She is tireless in her rescue efforts. She also produces working border collies for working homes to preserve the dogs she loves. Her dogs do not end up in shelters, not the ones she breeds or the ones she rescues.
> 
> Ethical breeders are not the enemy. People who buy from ethical breeders are not the enemy. Making them the enemy doesn't help anyone, least of all the dogs. It just turns off people like you from rescue, and that's sad.


I completely agree. I think rescuers don't understand what a reputable breeder is and just don't want to listen to understand. I've tried telling people again and again, but all they hear is that I spent so much money on a dog with a pedigree and that it could have saved so many dogs.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

missPenny said:


> DJEtzel, I know what you mean. Sometimes people become offended you would buy a dog and not rescue one. *However, I find a lot of the people who become judgmental, or offended by this , don't understand how a reputable breeder works. *I think most of them think that if you don't get a dog from a petstore, then it's from a breeder, and their idea of a breeder is a BYB. This is what I have noticed.


I'll admit that when I first started looking for a dog, I didn't really understand what a reputable breeder was. After learning more, I have a great deal of respect for breeders who do it right. They really put their heart and soul into their dogs.



Amaryllis said:


> *growl* I have no patience for bullies of any sort, even rescuers. The rescue I got Kabota from is run by a border collie breeder. She is tireless in her rescue efforts. She also produces working border collies for working homes to preserve the dogs she loves. Her dogs do not end up in shelters, not the ones she breeds or the ones she rescues.
> 
> Ethical breeders are not the enemy. People who buy from ethical breeders are not the enemy. Making them the enemy doesn't help anyone, least of all the dogs. It just turns off people like you from rescue, and that's sad.


Katie's breeder has her own breed-specific rescue and is the chair (president?) of the rescue foundation for the nation breed club. The first time I spoke with her, she had just come from picking up a dog from a bad situation and seeing to his needs. This past summer, she oversaw the rescue, care, transport, and placement of ~75 dogs (one group seized from a breeder turned hoarder and one group seized from a puppy mill situation). She really is amazing.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

cookieface said:


> I'll admit that when I first started looking for a dog, I didn't really understand what a reputable breeder was. After learning more, I have a great deal of respect for breeders who do it right. They really put their heart and soul into their dogs.
> 
> Katie's breeder has her own breed-specific rescue and is the chair (president?) of the rescue foundation for the nation breed club. The first time I spoke with her, she had just come from picking up a dog from a bad situation and seeing to his needs. This past summer, she oversaw the rescue, care, transport, and placement of ~75 dogs (one group seized from a breeder turned hoarder and one group seized from a puppy mill situation). She really is amazing.


I think many rescue people would be surprised to know that the majority of good breeders are active in their breed's rescue program. That's great that you breeder has been able to accomplish so much.

I have a rare breed that just doesn't end up in rescue, because all of the breeders are careful of where their dogs go and who might breed them in the future. I think there are lots of breeders just like them, but many don't see it because they are only familiar with petstore and BYB dogs.


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## bonesygirl (Mar 2, 2012)

My older dog is a rescue from the vet I used to work at. My puppy is a lab from a reputable breeder. 

My older guy fell into my lap, I didn't go looking for him and I didn't even like him in the beginning. He's now the most perfect little guy.

When I decided I was going to get a lab, I wanted to stack the deck in my favour as much as possible. I've never had a large breed dog before, and I was very concerned about the possibility of large breed specific problems. I found a reputable breeder a few hours away. She health tests, competes in obedience, is heavily involved in rescue, and donates one puppy or the proceeds of one puppy from every litter to a service dog program. My girl was definitely pricey, but I don't regret my decision for a second. 

I agree with what's already been said. Someone like me who researches the breed and specific breeder does not contribute to the overpopulation problem. My dog is never going to end up in a shelter. The problem lies with irresponsible pet owners who don't do their research, or drop their dogs at the first sign of trouble.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> You'd be surprised how many people will make me feel as guilty as possible about buying a dog and ridicule me and shame me for not adopting until I say that. It seems to be the only thing that gets people to shut the F up when "I wanted one" doesn't seem to do the trick!


I used to be very active in the rescue community before drama, stupidity, and burn out cracked me, but the number of rescuers who believe there's 'no excuse' for any dog to be bred, no matter what or why, are stunning. 

And yes, as with others, Jack's breeder is very active in RT rescue.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

elrohwen said:


> I think many rescue people would be surprised to know that the majority of good breeders are active in their breed's rescue program. That's great that you breeder has been able to accomplish so much.


It's one of the things that really sold me on her as opposed to other breeders that were recommended.



elrohwen said:


> I have a rare breed that just doesn't end up in rescue, because all of the breeders are careful of where their dogs go and who might breed them in the future. I think there are lots of breeders just like them, but many don't see it because they are only familiar with petstore and BYB dogs.


I have a more common breed and it's hard to see so many poorly bred examples and irresponsible breeders. I think my dog has an amazing temperament, but it's almost completely opposite of my original impression of the breed because I had only ever met the products of BYBs and/or puppy mills.


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## Galathiel (Apr 11, 2012)

All my dogs have been puppies from breeders since I've been an adult, except for one 11 month old papillon that was given to me by a rescue organization that I volunteered for. I don't have unlimited funds so I am pretty particular about what I want as I can only support one or two dogs at a time and give them everything that they need. My current dog is a 13 year old shih tzu and I plan to add a German Shepherd puppy (or older puppy) from a working line breeder. I think rescue/shelter dogs are great, just not for me because the specific breed I want is plagued by genetic diseases and needs to come from properly tested parents.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Neither is 'better'. Get a dog you like from a source you like. It's pretty simple.

That said, I don't buy the 'I NEED a breeder dog for dogsports' thing at all. There are so many people out there doing all sorts of things with their rescues. Yep, a lot are pretty picky with criteria going into rescuing. But then again you have to be that way with a breeder too.

Nothing wrong with wanting a dog from a breeder. I suspect most my dogs will come from breeders. However there's a couple types of dogs I would be open to rescuing if that is what fits best at the time.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> I don't buy the 'I NEED a breeder dog for dogsports' thing at all.


I don't *understand* that, at all. There's nothing wrong, IMO, from getting a dog from wherever you want. I even understand stacking the deck to be able to get a dog that performs at the level you want. These things make sense to me - even though I personally think your odds are probably better sitting tight and waiting on a young adult than starting with a puppy who is going to take a couple of years to mature, and is a puppy so still a bit of a crap shoot (if it is Just That Important to you - I do get foundation training takes time, and some people believe that's easier done with a puppy.)

The point I get confused is why wanting a dog to do dog sports with is somehow more 'valid' a reason to get a dog from a breeder than 'pet I want to have specific known traits so they mesh well with me'. Yes, some people seriously, heavily, compete at high levels and that's a big deal. Most people who claim they got a dog from a breeder to do dog sports with though - don't, and aren't likely to. It's just another activity they want to be able to do with their dog. I don't really 'get' why that's different than wanting a dog who will love fetch, or likely be very good with kids, or enjoy swimming and camping or - any other lifestyle consideration when picking out a pet, basically.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Before I got Hawkeye I actually seriously looked around in shelters around the state and surrounding states for a dog. My only requirements were Aussie, Border Collie, or a mix of either of those, high energy, structurally sound, temperamentally safe to mesh with myself and my current dogs (Aussies, Jack and Kechara). After searching for about 4 months I ended up emailing back and forth for about a month about a male Border Collie mix who was already started in Agility training, however he turned out in the end to be too much of a bite liability. After that final failed attempt at finding a rescue I decided to start looking at breeders. And I am so happy I found the breeder I did, She actually told me the day I picked up Hawk "Your part of our family now" And she has helped me and been a friend and mentor ever since.


As far as which is better? neither is better, they are both great!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

CptJack said:


> I don't *understand* that, at all. There's nothing wrong, IMO, from getting a dog from wherever you want. I even understand stacking the deck to be able to get a dog that performs at the level you want. These things make sense to me - even though I personally think your odds are probably better sitting tight and waiting on a young adult than starting with a puppy who is going to take a couple of years to mature, and is a puppy so still a bit of a crap shoot (if it is Just That Important to you - I do get foundation training takes time, and some people believe that's easier done with a puppy.)
> 
> The point I get confused is why wanting a dog to do dog sports with is somehow more 'valid' a reason to get a dog from a breeder than 'pet I want to have specific known traits so they mesh well with me'. Yes, some people seriously, heavily, compete at high levels and that's a big deal. Most people who claim they got a dog from a breeder to do dog sports with though - don't, and aren't likely to. It's just another activity they want to be able to do with their dog. I don't really 'get' why that's different than wanting a dog who will love fetch, or likely be very good with kids, or enjoy swimming and camping or - any other lifestyle consideration when picking out a pet, basically.


It's not at all. At least not to me.

I've been involved in 5 different training groups for varying amounts of time/experience. Most people there have their dogs as pets first and foremost. Even the very competitive ones. Of course there are those that want a competitive dog above all else and those that will go through dogs until getting the right one, but they're rare. There's also some that do rely on agility for income (trainers) but they're rare. Most people it's a fun (if not somewhat competitive) game. And a good way to get to hang with dog people. and imo a lot more fun than conformation showing, lol. 

I would say at least a third of our group here is mutts or rescues. There's a girl on my other board that's done very nicely with her two rescues in agility. and there's a lovely little BC cross on there too that tears everything up. And of course there's Kit on here. but they all went into rescue knowing what drives and temperaments they like in a sports dog. So much of it is training too. Silvia Trkman has a great article on choosing an agility dog. 

http://silvia.trkman.net/steps.htm

“You can’t buy good agility dog. But you can train it.”

I am not saying at all that going to a breeder is a bad choice. My two dogs are breeder dogs and my next one will be too. And it will be a sport dog.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> I am not saying at all that going to a breeder is a bad choice. My two dogs are breeder dogs and my next one will be too. And it will be a sport dog.


I don't think there's anything wrong with going to a good breeder for any reason at all, I really don't. I just get periodically bewildered when someone tells me that 'just' wanting a pet isn't a good enough reason to go to one, but it's okay if you want a dog for sports. Not even mad, just *confused*. 

Jack came from a breeder and to be honest the relationship I got with her, right along with him, would be enough to make me go back to a reputable breeder in the future. Health testing, known quantity (within reason) are all awesome for me, but the sheer amount of contact she keeps with the people who buy her puppies (and retired show dogs ) is just incredible. I know some people find that overbearing, but I've loved, really really loved, having that support and someone else out there who is interested in my dog and what I'm doing with him and how he's doing. It's NICE. 

I may end up doing agility with K. I'm not a dog sports person I don't think, but she's bored to tears, lately, and I found a club that does flyball, agility, and a few other things. But it's 'just' a hobby, either way. It can slot in with the hiking I do with them, now.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I am speaking strictly for myself but as someone involved in rescue, I have NO issue with responsible breeders. The counter point though is that many people who buy even from a good breeder would still have been served well by a dog from a shelter or rescue. The idea that shelter dogs have problems is too pervasive- so often false or the issues are very very minor but still steers people away.

Do some rescues go overboard with questions and requirements? Sure, but so do some good breeders and in both cases it is often because they have been burned in the past.

Some shelters will give a dog to anyone over 18 with cash in hand, with no idea if that person lives someplace that bans dogs or has BSL or far worse, has a conviction for animal abuse or dog fighting. There is and should be a middle ground where judgement and common sense have a place but everyone still gets checked out for huge red flags or blatant felonies. 

The source of a dog depends on what you are looking for, where you live, and your lifestyle. As long as it is not a BYB/mill dog, I am not going to think less of your choice. For me, I love my shelter dog and think he was absolutely the best possible choice for me. I think the rescues I foster are great selections for the homes they go to. For my vaguely defined next dog, I know what breed I want and am open to rescue for sure but would consider a well bred dog also (since it is a rare breed to end up in rescue). It will all depend on what dogs are available at the right time and I greatly prefer an adult dog since puppies are little peeing, pooing, landsharks.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

CptJack said:


> Jack came from a breeder and to be honest the relationship I got with her, right along with him, would be enough to make me go back to a reputable breeder in the future. Health testing, known quantity (within reason) are all awesome for me, but the sheer amount of contact she keeps with the people who buy her puppies (and retired show dogs ) is just incredible. I know some people find that overbearing, but I've loved, really really loved, having that support and someone else out there who is interested in my dog and what I'm doing with him and how he's doing. It's NICE.


Yes, this. When I bought Crystal, I not only got a healthy, stable, beautiful, excellent little dog, but I got a friendship with her breeder. We talk on the phone, I visit her, she visits me, we hang out at dog shows together, I photograph her new litters. She's a great lady and I'm glad she's in my life. I know that she'll always be there to help me out with Crystal.

I don't really talk to Casper's breeder, although she knows what I'm up to with Cas. I know she's there if I have questions or concerns. And with his breed, there was no choice but to go to a breeder. There are more than 700 people with applications in at the national AKK rescue, and they get maybe three or four dogs in rescue most years. I'd be waiting a long, LONG time for a rescue AKK. 

While there are certainly terrible places to get a dog (pet stores/puppy mills), I really don't think there's a _best_ place to get a dog. It depends on how specific you are in your requirements for a dog, your location (some locations, like my last city, get VERY few small dogs in shelters and rescues, for example), how much you want to spend, your living situation (some rescues and shelters won't adopt to you if you don't have a fenced yard or have small children), whether or not you want to keep your dog intact, and a number of other factors. Everyone who's thinking of adding a dog to their family should just do a lot of research and figure out what's best for them.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> I lead a very specific lifestyle and I need to make sure my dogs are going to fit in and work out... Both physically speaking and health wise. Dock diving, agility, flyball, frisbee and herding all need dogs of very sound physical frame. I got lucky with Frag, but he had a crappy temperament and can't do half of what I'd like... I have no idea how any puppy in a rescue is going to turn out as far as drives and temperament plus health, and I don't like adopting adult dogs because I've had nothing but trouble with the adult dogs I've adopted, the learning time is greater, they're harder to integrate, and there is less of a bond IMO.
> 
> Going to a breeder who is breeding for exactly what I want is my best choice and it's what I will be doing from now on. I've worked in numerous shelters, and I foster dogs constantly... I feel I've done my part with rescue and don't need to feel bad about breeding or buying.


For every story like DJ's, there's one like this:

My mutt came from a shelter 4 years ago as a young adult. We went through some training issues at the beginning (mostly impulse control, a little resource guarding), but she's incredible. We compete at a high level in agility and disc, and she also excels at nosework. We've tried out dock diving and flyball, which weren't for me, but she loved both. When she's on, she's incredibly drivey, but she crates and sleeps well in the house. She loves a great off-leash hike and never strays beyond sight. Her temperament couldn't be better - she loves everyone, human and canine alike, and will practically beg for a good hug or cuddle, even from a stranger. She's healthy as a horse - never been to the vet for any symptom ever, no allergies or sensitivities. Her food motivation is off the charts, which makes training a cinch. I can't imagine I'll have this close of a bond with any other dog ever. Will I go to a shelter again? You bet.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

as it was said about the connection with the breeder, 20 years with my first breeder she has passed away recently (love you Mary) And again with Adele's breeder a good life match. Chesca's was a nightmare as she was a toss away dog sold as a show prospect with a whopping price , she had contracted a uterious infection they treated her and then sold her without disclosing she was a show dog that was unbreedable (I forgot to ask that question lol) any way I loved Chesca (was a huge B fighter, forgot to ask that question too lol) didn't fight to return her because they didn't care what happened to her. Was thankful she didn't go to a serious competitor into getting their money back out of her. She didn't like any of my B;s but she chose to get along and be with us Love her more for that. Dog world isn't pretty or perfect you can't loose sight of the individual dog or blame the dogs. Tried supporting a local rescue and that was a nightmare and an experience I wished I hadn't had. Bless people who foster the dogs and get into a home even when their rescue organization doesn't support you..

I prefer a breeder, and I prefer an exact breed having a base line of expectation of what I have to work with. Never want to change a dog, want a dog who I agree with who they are and want to be.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I've always adopted rescues, but with my experience and my luck (lots of good luck!), I can't justify the cost of a good breeder.

However, my nephew and his roommate both spent about $1000 - $2000 on pups from good breeders. The pups were 10 -12 weeks old, house trained, calm, socialized, very healthy ... great dogs from the very start. And, they had phone support from the breeders for issues that came up. I think the quality, temperament, and health is more reliable with a good breeder. These pups get a better start, but what happens afterwards is up to you.

I wouldn't trade my dog for theirs, but at 10 weeks, I might have


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## makenzie (Jan 3, 2013)

I didn't plan on getting a dog from a breeder, but after lots of searching and lengthy adoption applications, I started looking for breeders. The breeder I chose doesn't breed for showing or agility, just healthy happy family pets. She's been great, and we've been in contact weekly since before I even picked him out. 

However growing up we had a rescue mix who was the sweetest most well tempered dog anyone could ask for. I think a little research can go a long way and it's maybe less about whether the dog was adopted or from a reputable breeder and more about the dog its self and making a good match.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Either is fine by me (as long as 'breeder' means someone producing healthy dogs and keeping them out of shelters). I will likely have one from both in my lifetime. I really want a Mini American Shepherd and those are simply _not_ in shelters. I had a really, really bad experience with Pete's rescue, He's a sweetheart but the rescue really screwed me as an adopter. That and the insane contract I signed makes me a little gunshy of rescues. I think I will choose a shelter dog or direct rescue instead of private rescue next time. I don't think my experience is the norm though.

I do think that rescuing maximizes the amount of good you can do, but that doesn't mean its the best choice for everyone.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I would feel hideously guilty if I bought a dog from a breeder. To me it would be like saying "drop dead, you worthless mutts" to all the dogs in need. If there were fewer dogs in need. . .but there aren't. 

I'm sure my next dog will be some random farm dog, this- far from a bullet in the head, as usual.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Willowy said:


> I would feel hideously guilty if I bought a dog from a breeder. To me it would be like saying "drop dead, you worthless mutts" to all the dogs in need.


Which, oddly enough, is the motto of all ethical breeders 

lolnojk. Does seem like a severe way to describe it.


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## Hankscorpio (May 15, 2012)

I don't know about breeders but the Newington CT humane society did me well in the end. They provided a free behaviorist and required first time dog owners to prepay for training class which was a godsend. However they were a bit lazy matching me with my dog. He was a bit too high energy for a first timer and the first month was really rough. The behaviorist said that their return rate was really high (implying it was because of the poor match making). 
I found the other rescues were really focused on finding a good match because then didn't want the dogs to come back...

I like mutts and didn't want a puppy so breeders didn't cross my mind.
Also there are rescues that focus pure bred dogs. My mom has her second poodle from New England Poodle Rescue. (Great rescue). And I've met a lot of cool rescued racing greyhounds


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

HollowHeaven said:


> Does seem like a severe way to describe it.


LOL, I s'pose it is. But look, there's a dog who's about to die if I don't take him. I'm going to say "welp, have fun dying, dog, I'm going to go pay money to get a different dog because he's specialer than you and I just want to!"? I couldn't justify it. It's bad enough I have to leave dogs to die because I CAN'T have another dog now, if I _could_ have another dog and chose to buy a dog and leave another one to die, well, I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror. Whatever works for other people, but I just. . .couldn't.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Willowy said:


> LOL, I s'pose it is. But look, there's a dog who's about to die if I don't take him. I'm going to say "welp, have fun dying, dog, I'm going to go pay money to get a different dog because he's specialer than you and I just want to!"? I couldn't justify it. It's bad enough I have to leave dogs to die because I CAN'T have another dog now, if I _could_ have another dog and chose to buy a dog and leave another one to die, well, I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror. Whatever works for other people, but I just. . .couldn't.


I think this is the ultimate thing. 

I mean, I have a dream dog. That I've put off twice now, beyond any hope of having in the next 15 years (if ever) to take in stray puppies. That's okay for me. But if I REALLY wanted that Springer... I wouldn't be taking in those strays. I wouldn't be keeping them, anymore than someone who couldn't have a dog right now. A spot open for dog A does not mean slot open for dog G. I can make that leap, for a variety of reasons. A lot of people can't. For a whole slew of reasons. Some of them very, very concrete, some of them no more concrete than just wanting exactly what they want.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah, it wasn't a choice for me between Alaskan Klee Kai or shelter dog... it was the choice between AKK and no second dog. Rescue wasn't an option because, like I said, maybe four AKK end up in rescue per year and 700+ people are vying for them. 

For someone who doesn't have strict wants/needs in a dog, then I think that rescue is probably their best bet. But I don't villainize anyone for their choices besides the people who knowingly pay terrible breeders for a dog.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Willowy said:


> LOL, I s'pose it is. But look, there's a dog who's about to die if I don't take him. I'm going to say "welp, have fun dying, dog, I'm going to go pay money to get a different dog because he's specialer than you and I just want to!"? I couldn't justify it. It's bad enough I have to leave dogs to die because I CAN'T have another dog now, if I _could_ have another dog and chose to buy a dog and leave another one to die, well, I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror. Whatever works for other people, but I just. . .couldn't.


I can honestly say that when I scan shelters for my Redbone, and I can't find any (big chance of this) I will not be walking onto a breeder's property with my nose in the air. I will going there knowing I'm getting what I want. I'm not going to settle because it's society's view of what's right. Nobody wins in that situation. 
I think very few people have that mentality when going to a breeder. I have never known anybody who has supported a reputable breeder to think themselves, or their dog, 'holier than thou' because it came from a breeder.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

HollowHeaven said:


> I can honestly say that when I scan shelters for my Redbone, and I can't find any (big chance of this) I will not be walking onto a breeder's property with my nose in the air. I will going there knowing I'm getting what I want. I'm not going to settle because it's society's view of what's right. Nobody wins in that situation.
> I think very few people have that mentality when going to a breeder. I have never known anybody who has supported a reputable breeder to think themselves, or their dog, 'holier than thou' because it came from a breeder.


This.

I do know people who go 'I paid big bucks and my dog's a purebred', but those people? Didn't go to a reputable breeder. They went to a petstore, or a BYB. The sheer waiting time and difficulty of process of going through a reputable breeder (plus the contract) turns most of those folks off, fast ...if they're educated enough to know what a reputable breeder is to begin with. 

I am flexible enough to go 'just wanted a pet, good enough/close enough' right now, but like I said: If I'd been dead set on that springer, Kylie and Thud would have been a pretty lousy substitute. And honestly? Do any of us want people to have pets they don't legitimately want? That's like saying someone who doesn't own a dog at all, but has room and money and is allowed to have them where they live, is required to do their civic duty and adopt a dog. That doesn't... work out very well.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

The best place to get a dog from is whatever place has the kind of dog that you will want to keep forever. Paying more attention to where you got the dog rather than getting the dog you truly want doesn't help anyone if you end up with a dog that doesn't suit you and it ends up in a shelter a few years later.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I have to say, I would LOVE to have a Bengal cat or an Egyptian Mau, but I feel like I can handle any cat (unless it has some crazy behavioral issues like refusing to use a litter box or constantly attacking people), and I find many cats beautiful, so I wouldn't feel right about going to a cat breeder when there are SO MANY cats in shelters that would fit me just fine. My two cats came from the humane society. But I don't feel the same way about dogs. I really wanted the two breeds I got; I had very specific wants/needs when it came to grooming and exercise level and size and health... it's not the same as with cats, where I could pretty much walk into a shelter, close my eyes, spin around, and be good with whatever cat I saw first when I opened my eyes.  So I don't feel at all guilty about supporting a good dog breeder, while I, personally, would feel guilty if I bought a cat.

I think that if someone feels the same way about dogs that I do about cats -- if they could see a wide variety of dogs fitting them and so don't feel right about going to a breeder when they could happily rescue a dog -- they should definitely rescue. I only get annoyed when they look down on me for buying. It's really a personal choice, and unless you're actually harming animals (for example, by giving money to a pet store and ensuring that they'll keep on ordering "mass-produced" dogs or cats), then you shouldn't let anyone make you feel guilty.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

CptJack said:


> And honestly? Do any of us want people to have pets they don't legitimately want?


I've been down this road before, a couple of times. I resented the animal, didn't want much to do with them, every little thing they did annoyed me.
I wanted what I wanted, I didn't get it, I was pressured into something, and I settled. I rehomed the animal(s) eventually because we weren't right for each other.

So, from now on I will not settle for less than what I want. And if I want a dog from a breeder, that's what I'm going to get, and there will be no ego involved.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Crantastic said:


> I think that if someone feels the same way about dogs that I do about cats -- if they could see a wide variety of dogs fitting them and so don't feel right about going to a breeder when they could happily rescue a dog -- they should definitely rescue.


This is what I'm realizing about myself lately. My needs form a dog aren't THAT specific - nowhere as specific as they used to be, thanks to home ownership, a fenced yard, older kids, and (positive) changes in my work/financial situation. Not to say that there's anything wrong with specifics, just saying that I have changed and as I have what I 'need' from a dog has become more flexible, at this point in my life. There are still a list of things I want to AVOID/I can not have in a dog, but that's still a lot more room than must haves. 

So, I can be flexible and have been. Other people can't be. Agreed entirely that as long as it's not hurting animals (through more than not letting them live in your house) then it's... really just a personal thing, and there should be no shame in either rescue or reputable breeders. I've done, and loved, both. I'll likely do both again in the future - when my needs get more specific again (and they will.)


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

beretw said:


> I think that totally depends on what you want from a dog. One isn't better than another.
> 
> That said, there are certain breeds that I would only suggest going through a breeder for.


This, x2. Especially the second part.



Crantastic said:


> Yeah, it wasn't a choice for me between Alaskan Klee Kai or shelter dog... it was the choice between AKK and no second dog. .


And this. Except replace Alaskan Klee Kai with German Shepherd Dog, and I won't be going with a rescue because I don't think I'd find the dog I want in one. And I don't feel guilty or the need to justify that. But I certainly won't say that it's a "need", either, because it's definitely not that. Just a strong personal preference. 



Crantastic said:


> I think that if someone feels the same way about dogs that I do about cats -- if they could see a wide variety of dogs fitting them and so don't feel right about going to a breeder when they could happily rescue a dog -- they should definitely rescue. I only get annoyed when they look down on me for buying. It's really a personal choice, and unless you're actually harming animals (for example, by giving money to a pet store and ensuring that they'll keep on ordering "mass-produced" dogs or cats), then you shouldn't let anyone make you feel guilty.


Yeah, it's different for me with cats. Don't know why. I don't mean that I'd feel guilty for going to a breeder, but if I do go that route, it wouldn't be because what I was looking for was too specific. For me, when I get a pet cat, a cat is a cat is a cat. I can get what I want from a shelter and I can get what I want from a breeder, although I would only get a retired adult. I couldn't justify paying the money for a kitten. That's not to say they're not worth it, but it's not something I can personally rationalize.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Willowy said:


> I would feel hideously guilty if I bought a dog from a breeder. To me it would be like saying "drop dead, you worthless mutts" to all the dogs in need. If there were fewer dogs in need. . .but there aren't.


For us, the issue was local shelters and rescues didn't seem willing to adopt to less than perfect homes - they were the ones who would rather see dogs stay in kennels or foster homes or be euthanized than go to good, but not perfect homes. We failed on a number of counts: no fence, first time owners, worked full-time, no "companion" dog in the home. I certainly don't think my dog is better than any other dog because she's purebred and I would have loved to have taken home almost any of the pups in our local rescues / shelters. Unfortunately, things didn't work out that way.



CptJack said:


> Do any of us want people to have pets they don't legitimately want? ... That doesn't... work out very well.


We probably could have adopted any one of a huge number of terriers or terrier mixes from county SPCA / animal control shelters. Unfortunately, I really don't think a terrier - in general - is the right type of dog for us. I know each dog should be judged individually, but I'd rather have the odds stacked in our favor that the general breed tendencies would match our needs / desires.


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## ayln (Dec 23, 2012)

beretw said:


> I think that totally depends on what you want from a dog. One isn't better than another.
> 
> That said, there are certain breeds that I would only suggest going through a breeder for.


Out of curiosity, which would these breeds be?

Also, as a failed adopter, I do sometimes question the whole "shelters have dogs just as good as you can get from a breeder! You can even get purebreds!" What some rescues and shelters don't really tell you upfront is that some dogs will have at least minor, if not major issues caused by their previous owner(s). They often say the "behavior" problem that lands them in the shelter is just not being housetrained or chewing up furniture because they're bored and don't get enough exercise, but then they probably had an owner that didn't pay enough attention to any part of their training in the first place, and most likely the dog has other issues that aren't apparent in a shelter setting. Also, purebreds that end up in shelters may also have health and temperament problems if they're of a dubious background (i.e. backyard breeder or pet store).

(I'm not saying you shouldn't adopt because the dog may have issues, but just be prepared to do some rehabilitation.)

If I were to suggest options for a first time owner, I would say either adopt an adult from a reputable rescue or shelter and be absolutely sure of the dog's training, history, and temperament. Or, adopt retired adult show dogs from a breeder or breed club, or get a puppy from a reputable breeder of a breed that is generally forgiving and easy to handle (though it looks like you already have your breed in mind, and I don't have any experience with bulldogs so I don't have any idea how easy they are as a breed). Generally these will have a good chance of getting you a well-behaved, possibly already trained dog.

Not sure if you were asking specifically for pointers though, lol. Because of my personal experiences, though, I would probably be far more wary with shelter dogs and ask way more questions if I ever adopt again, which may be never. I'm pretty picky about the breeds and temperaments that I like, and my local shelters are generally filled with poorly trained but affectionate chihuahua mixes or energetic bully breeds, neither of which fit my preferences or lifestyle. My preferred breed almost never lands in shelters or rescues, and the ones that do are almost always cases of neglect, which I personally can't and don't want to deal with because of my health issues.



cookieface said:


> We probably could have adopted any one of a huge number of terriers or terrier mixes from county SPCA / animal control shelters. Unfortunately, I really don't think a terrier - in general - is the right type of dog for us. I know each dog should be judged individually, but I'd rather have the odds stacked in our favor that the general breed tendencies would match our needs / desires.


Yes, agreed. I think sometimes people on both sides of the counter forget that breed does still play a big part in the type of dog that you can live with. It's part of the reason why my adoption didn't work out; I felt like I had to adopt, and I was particularly loyal to the shelter that I volunteer with, so given my options I picked a dog that looked and sounded good during the adoption but ended up being nearly impossible to housebreak (dachshund) as well as yappy and high-strung (chihuahua). There were other reasons too, obviously, but those were related to breed specifically.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Willowy said:


> LOL, I s'pose it is. But look, there's a dog who's about to die if I don't take him. I'm going to say "welp, have fun dying, dog, I'm going to go pay money to get a different dog because he's specialer than you and I just want to!"? I couldn't justify it. It's bad enough I have to leave dogs to die because I CAN'T have another dog now, if I _could_ have another dog and chose to buy a dog and leave another one to die, well, I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror. Whatever works for other people, but I just. . .couldn't.


To each their own and for their own circumstances. The way I look at it, is that I could _potentially_ save a whole lot more dogs by buying a dog from a good breeder than adopting from a shelter. I would most certainly start with seeking the right dog in a shelter or rescue though. Here's why:
I lucked out MAJORLY with Chester. His temperament is impeccable, sure he needed training but the parts of a dog that you can't really "train" were all there- he is very stable, tolerant, dog friendly, patient and nearly bombproof. So I can foster dogs that need a LOT of help. 

Many of our foster homes have their own dogs that are great dogs but won't put up with X type of foster- whether that be high energy, fearful, reactive, bossy, male, female, even too calm if the resident dog is very playful- but Chester can deal with almost any type of personality and he really is my partner in rehabbing these dogs. Like Luna for example, the rescue was at their wits end on where to place her because she was flat crazy but she took to Chester like glue and watched him for behavioral clues and learned from his steady personality. 

I think I know only 1 other "resident" dog that is as tolerant as Chester and he's an under 2 year old bully breed which means that could change (he's an awesome dog, he's just still not mature yet). If in the far off future I could find another dog of both my preferred breed or a similar breed AND with that rock solid temperament in a shelter/rescue (and I would be willing to drive and I have good regional contacts) than great, perfect. But if I cannot, then I would be looking into a good breeder with lines that have that temperament I am looking for and aiming for an older puppy or adult dog. 

I could adopt a good dog for me that isn't suited to helping rehab other dogs and have saved one dog or I could adopt _or_ buy a dog that has the right stuff and save dozens as fosters and/or training projects. 

All that said, 98% of my friends have dogs from shelters, rescues or the side of the road/dumped in their lap and 98% of those are great dogs that had minimal issues and are tons of fun etc. One friend had a puppy with parvo who recovered well and is a great little dog and one adopted an adult dog that she knew from the get-go was a little fearful and guard-y but was just fine for her circumstances. The rest needed no training or care that any dog from a good breeder wouldn't need also; just the usual house training, leash training and socializing for puppies and some refreshers on basic manners for adults. For most people, especially first time owners, I think an adult dog is such a great choice and the little things they might need work on are minor compared to the all consuming responsibility and work of raising a puppy right. So shelters and rescues are the way to go a lot of the time.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ayln said:


> (I'm not saying you shouldn't adopt because the dog may have issues, but just be prepared to do some rehabilitation.)


Honestly, most dog owners should be prepared to do some rehabilitation of relatively minor issues, no matter where they get their dogs from. That perfect little sponge is going to learn from your mistakes, right along with you  I say that as someone who has both adult, purebred, responsibly breed, dogs and 'side of the road puppies' and an extensive history with rescue and rescue dogs. You're going to screw your dog up in minor ways and be unteaching at least a couple of times and that's not fundamentally different than someone else screwing it up first. 

I don't mean major temperament issues, of course, but pulling, barking, not liking the crate, jumping up on people - whatever. At some point you're going to probably, intentionally or otherwise, teach your dog to do something and regret it.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

JMO but I've had dogs from byb'ers (in the 80;s when no one knew better), reputable breeders, hobby breeders, shelters and rescues. I am a responsible pet owner and there is no way am I going to feel "hideously guilty" for buying from a breeder. Maybe other pet owners out there need to learn to be responsible themselves, spay and neuter if you can't contain properly and do homework before buying/adopting. If people did this then there would be far fewer animals needing good homes. 
This is the USA and I'm free to get dogs from wherever I want to, including breeders. I don't even *do* anything with my dogs but if I feel the need for a puppy, it's going to come from a breeder.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

HollowHeaven said:


> I can honestly say that when I scan shelters for my Redbone, and I can't find any (big chance of this)


Redbones don't end up in shelters because they get a bullet to the head (if they're lucky) if they don't work out. You might check with hunters to see if they have any dogs they plan to kill because they don't play their games. There are definitely unwanted Redbones dying for lack of homes, I guarantee that, even if not in shelters. 

I never said anyone else should feel hideously guilty. But I would. I couldn't look a dog in the face and say "you're not what I want so you get to die".


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Redbones don't end up in shelters because they get a bullet to the head (if they're lucky) if they don't work out. You might check with hunters to see if they have any dogs they plan to kill because they don't play their games. There are definitely unwanted Redbones dying for lack of homes, I guarantee that, even if not in shelters. .


This is REALLY area dependent. I'm not too far from HH, and trust me - the beagles, walkers and black and tans abound and often end up shot for want of homes, redbones? Nope. Very few people use them to hunt with, period. The dogs just aren't here, and they're altogether too expensive to be used to hunt and tossed away. Also, honestly, to be fair to the hunters I know: They usually already place dogs that don't work as pets, and while they backyard breed, keep their dogs chained, and rarely provide them enough food, the dogs are often NOT thrown away when they get too old to hunt, either. They move indoors. 

So, let's not generalize from one rural area to another.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Redbones don't end up in shelters because they get a bullet to the head (if they're lucky) if they don't work out. You might check with hunters to see if they have any dogs they plan to kill because they don't play their games. There are definitely unwanted Redbones dying for lack of homes, I guarantee that, even if not in shelters.


Except, where I live, I have literally NEVER heard of a Redbone not working out as a hunter. +1 to them. And if they don't work out, they end up being pets, or watch dogs, or something else to that affect. People are more willing to try and sell their hounds than shoot them, especially a Redbone.
Get into a conversation with an old timer or a hunter, or even a pet owner, mention Redbobne, _I_ guarantee you'll hear "those are expensive dogs, but they're worth it." I've actually never heard anyone NOT say that. 

I have seen a couple Redbones in shelters, none near me, but a few hours' drive away. When the time comes, I'll check shelters, as many as far as I'm willing to go for a breeder, and I might find one, maybe two, but they may not be the dog for me. I may not connect with those dogs, and I would feel bad for walking out and leaving them behind if we weren't right for each other, but I won't settle because they're in a shelter. It's not going to equate to a good life for either of it. 

I don't know how common they are in South Dakota, but here, they're very common, and you still won't see them wandering the roads, or in shelters, or hear of them being killed on purpose.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

We don't have any coonhounds here, just Labs and GSPs, as far as hunting dogs go . I didn't know they were so rare, figured every kind of coonhound would be similarly treated. Do they cost more to breed? Why wouldn't they be more common if they're so great? 

And I do NOT have good experiences with hunters who use dogs. Even expensive dogs.

But, like I said, whatever other people can live with, super. I can only say what I could live with in my own decisions.


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## bulldoglover (Jan 5, 2013)

Hey all,

I'd just like to say thanks for all the great replies...I haven't been here for a couple of days and was amazed to find so many responses!

thanks again


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Willowy said:


> We don't have any coonhounds here, just Labs and GSPs, as far as hunting dogs go . I didn't know they were so rare, figured every kind of coonhound would be similarly treated. Do they cost more to breed? Why wouldn't they be more common if they're so great?


So, basically, you made an assumption about a type of dog that you have no experience with.
Don't mean that to be as rude as it sounds.

They don't cost more to breed, they cost more to buy. People don't mill them out as easily as they do beagles, or black and tans or blue ticks. 
Not many people know about them, but hunters do. They're common among hunters here, but not as pets, not like most other hounds.


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## amosmoses89 (Jun 19, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Redbones don't end up in shelters because they get a bullet to the head (if they're lucky) if they don't work out. You might check with hunters to see if they have any dogs they plan to kill because they don't play their games. There are definitely unwanted Redbones dying for lack of homes, I guarantee that, even if not in shelters.
> 
> I never said anyone else should feel hideously guilty. But I would. I couldn't look a dog in the face and say "you're not what I want so you get to die".


Most of the people I know with hunting dogs treat them better than most people treat their children. And how can you possibly guarantee there are oodles of redbones being shot in the head because they aren't perfect for their owners. Not nice. 

@HollowHeaven you might look in North Alabama, TN area when you start looking. When I was daydreaming about breeds a few years back there were several in rescues and breeders up there. One shelter had a litter of redbone/GSD mixes that i nearly died over they were so dang adorable.


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

It depends on your wants and needs. 

My boyfriend/housemate is allergic to dogs that do lots of shedding (with lots of undercoat, dander, etc) so in order for him to remain comfortable in our home, we chose a wonderful breed that is hypoallergenic and went to a breeder.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

amosmoses89 said:


> Most of the people I know with hunting dogs treat them better than most people treat their children. And how can you possibly guarantee there are oodles of redbones being shot in the head because they aren't perfect for their owners. Not nice.


My experience with hunters and dogs is opposite of yours. I can guarantee it because that's considered proper hunting dog management, especially with pack hunters. The last ones in get "culled". It is what it is.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

I hate to say it, but what works best for us is to get a purebreed pup. The mixes we have had have not been as satisfying (lets be honest , people get a companion animal to meet their needs, not just giving an animal a home, not well written, but I hope my meaning comes accross...)- for us, with the purebreeds you know what you are getting (you have picked out the size, coat color, basic characteristics of the breed beforehand) and having a small child and other pets, this was important to us, plus initially living in the city with no dedicated yard, the dog(s) must be able to be walked safely in public... So we utiized a breeders, and in one case went to a family that had an accidental litter of purebreeds (is this a back yard breeder?-- the pup is the most well socialized one yet, they had 4 little kids and the litter was raised in the home with family, a very even tempered pup of an even tempered breed he has been a joy to raise-- a Bernese Mt dog)...
On the flip side I do feel guilty about this-- I buy all my cat/dog stuff at Petco, and donate to homeless pets everytime I purchase, and all our cats are rescues(we have 3- I'd probably have more but our last set of kittens were so sick they cost hundreds in vet bills)...
I hope this is a good explanation for why some people do not go to rescues (plus our last rescue we did have to rehome d/t her severe dog aggression- I have had dog aggressive dogs, but it was more workeable with them as I had raised them from pups then trying to reshape an adult dog...)...


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

amosmoses89 said:


> Most of the people I know with hunting dogs treat them better than most people treat their children. And how can you possibly guarantee there are oodles of redbones being shot in the head because they aren't perfect for their owners. Not nice.
> 
> @HollowHeaven you might look in North Alabama, TN area when you start looking. When I was daydreaming about breeds a few years back there were several in rescues and breeders up there. One shelter had a litter of redbone/GSD mixes that i nearly died over they were so dang adorable.


 Sticking my neck out here to put in my 2 cents-- growing up in very rural Arkansas, I went with my mom one day to visit her friend-- they had a very nice trailer, and underneath it lived a family of the most beautiful Black and tan coonhounds I have ever seen before and since-- parents and a month old little of 9 little pups-- the little girl goes to put one in my arms, and says you want one? (Now i had wished I had said yes/pushed harder to get one, but what did I know I was probably 12 and pretty shy, very taken aback and my mom said no we have 3 dogs already)...
Anyways just making conversation I asked her what she fed them (ours ate whatever was on sale that week at Piggly Wiggly we were not dog food snobs)-- and the little girl (I can still see her like it was yesterday, maybe 8 or 9 years old, with a head of curly blond hair)...looks at me so surprised, shocked and said "What do you mean, feed them? These are huntin dogs they get their own food! Well they get scraps from our leftovers sometimes..." And I just looked at that poor skinny momma dog with all those fat wiggly pups on her and felt so bad for her(the bitch that is)....
That is my firsthand experience with country hunting dogs...


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## ayln (Dec 23, 2012)

Candydb said:


> I hate to say it, but what works best for us is to get a purebreed pup. The mixes we have had have not been as satisfying (lets be honest , people get a companion animal to meet their needs, not just giving an animal a home, not well written, but I hope my meaning comes accross...)- for us, with the purebreeds you know what you are getting (you have picked out the size, coat color, basic characteristics of the breed beforehand) and having a small child and other pets, this was important to us, plus initially living in the city with no dedicated yard, the dog(s) must be able to be walked safely in public... So we utiized a breeders, and in one case went to a family that had an accidental litter of purebreeds (is this a back yard breeder?-- the pup is the most well socialized one yet, they had 4 little kids and the litter was raised in the home with family, a very even tempered pup of an even tempered breed he has been a joy to raise-- a Bernese Mt dog)...
> On the flip side I do feel guilty about this-- I buy all my cat/dog stuff at Petco, and donate to homeless pets everytime I purchase, and all our cats are rescues(we have 3- I'd probably have more but our last set of kittens were so sick they cost hundreds in vet bills)...
> I hope this is a good explanation for why some people do not go to rescues (plus our last rescue we did have to rehome d/t her severe dog aggression- I have had dog aggressive dogs, but it was more workeable with them as I had raised them from pups then trying to reshape an adult dog...)...


Yeah, this was my experience with getting a rescue dog. A lot of the time with shelter dogs is that you don't know what you're getting until you take them home, and then there are the health issues that inexperienced owners think are minor but can end up being pretty serious. I mean, I didn't know spaying a dog after their 2nd heat would raise their chance of having mammarian cancer over spaying before their first, like I would if I had gotten a puppy. I used to have the bleeding heart notion of rescuing a dog from a shelter or certain death and we would be happy forever, but the truth is I had a particular set of expectations (not even high expectations!) and realized that doing the right thing sometimes means getting a dog that I would actually be able to take care of and cherish, rather than thinking that I could handle a dog and have that "rewarding experience" a lot of rescuers speak of when in reality for me it was just trouble and stress.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Willowy said:


> I would feel hideously guilty if I bought a dog from a breeder. To me it would be like saying "drop dead, you worthless mutts" to all the dogs in need. If there were fewer dogs in need. . .but there aren't.
> 
> I'm sure my next dog will be some random farm dog, this- far from a bullet in the head, as usual.


This. I know I couldn't live with myself if I paid someone money for bringing more dogs into this world. Not when thousands of fantastic dogs are literally dying for homes in this country.


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