# And now....for some sensitive questions on Rough Collies and Golden Retrievers



## 8 (Apr 4, 2006)

In my first ever thread I asked what it was like living day to day with either a rough collie or a golden retriever. There were a lot of great responses that are helping my wife and I decide which breed to go with for our first dog (to add with our 2 kids ages 4 and 7 and our 2 older cats both aged 10 years).

We're desperately hoping we don't offend anyone here, but looking for honest answers....
From our limited observations or research we were concerned about a couple things as follows.

Golden Retriever:
1) Doggy Smell - Phew, from the few that we met at a breeder's house, we were quite surprised at how strong the doggy odor was and the amount of "dirt" that transferred to our hands after petting the dogs. Is this normal? Do Goldies have, ahh, uhh, a smell problem? Or was it just these dogs in particular?
2) Strength - We've gone to a local obedience class a few times now and have been amazed at how much of a struggle it was for Goldie owners just to hold on to their dogs (aged 2 years or less) who were pulling and yanking with all their strength with excitement. Is this a common behaviour and how likely is it that our kids would be able to take the dog for a walk (once ready and under supervision)?

Rough Collie:
1) Although I like the more reserved nature of the collie with strangers, my wife is concerned they may be too aloof. What is it like to come home to a collie? Are they excited to see you? What about lounging about at home...do they want to be by your side, eager to please and tail wagging? We so love that tail wagging factor.
2) Similar to above, how quickly will a rough collie accept a stranger once they realize they're your friend and how friendly would they then become?

Thanks in advance for any responses and hope these questions aren't offensive. We're just making sure we fully understand what we're getting into before making a final decision. Hopefully we're not overthinking it!!


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

My rough collies are never aloof. They love and I mean love people. They go crazy when we come home from work. Collies love to be with their people, right now both of mine are laying at my feet. Rio is sleeping and Savannah is chewing her bone. Mine both are wonderful with children. They are also very gentle, I also have a small Maltese pup (5.2lbs) and five cats neither of my dogs would hurt any of my other pets.(In fact Savannah plays with Squeak and my one cat Chelsea.) My old collie Misty was the social bee of the neighborhood always looking to visit with the neighbors. You can pm me anytime with any questions.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

I have always known the Retreiver breeds to be very goofy excitable and energetic adolscents, *especially* when not given the proper training. I'd suspect that early leash training would help in regards to jumping and pulling. Any dog of any breed can be trained to behave properly. I don't think a Golden is a particularly hard dog to train, but they do have high activity levels. When not given the right excercise, all that spazz energy comes out. Any people wonder why their dog doesn't do well in class. 

As for dirt coming onto your hands.. sounds like just a bunch of dirty dogs. May not have been a good breeder, but of course take into account that it's hard for a breeder to keep multiple dogs clean at every second of the day. With one dog I don't think you should run into too many smelly problems. Just my speculation.

I don't really know anything at all about the Rough Collie.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

> Rough Collie:
> 1) Although I like the more reserved nature of the collie with strangers, my wife is concerned they may be too aloof. What is it like to come home to a collie? Are they excited to see you? What about lounging about at home...do they want to be by your side, eager to please and tail wagging? We so love that tail wagging factor.
> 2) Similar to above, how quickly will a rough collie accept a stranger once they realize they're your friend and how friendly would they then become?


1)My collie wags his body so much when any one (be it family that lives here or my friends, or family friends) he knows comes in the door, its like he is going to break in half, he is was to excitied to see his people, and people he knows. he is a HUGE HUGE tail wagger.

2) Mine will accept people pretty easily. He will walk up sniff them, on his terms, he wont approch them right away if they ask him too. He will get a few pats then go lay down. he is aloof enough that he doesnt bother new people in the house, doesnt need to be all over them on. 

When we are on a walk, he doesnt pull or even pay attention to strangers. which is what I like about the aloofness. He will accept a strangers petting, or stand for a child to love on him. but he wont be bounding out of his body with excitment from the attention. When at the dog park, when allmost all the other dogs are jumping up on people, begging for treats ect. My dog can be found, playing ball, playing with another dog, or smelling some bushs. He doesnt care to go meet the new people, or see what treats they are offering. But will go to them if they call him over and will let them pat him for a second.

This is [again] why I like the aloofness. I never worry about him bothering people and being a pest.

They are not so alloof though that they wouldnt go up to people. just more reserved compared to a lab or golden who are real people lovers.

I cant answer for goldens. As I have never (and doubt I ever would. nothing against them, just not intrested in them) owned a golden.
What I can say about goldens is. I know lots, I mean lots of them. as they are very popular. and I have never noticed a weird smell on them, or anything over powering, and when petting never really got that "greasy smelly" hand sort of thing from them. they may have just been dirty dogs you met.
as for the 2 years and udner pulling their owners around. yes they are a more powerful breed then a small dog. but I would be you if those owners with a 2 year old dog worked on obidence when they first got the dog then they wouldnt be getting yanked every which way.

Goldens are sweet great dogs. happy easy going people lovers. (I really do enjoy them, just dont want to own one lol)


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

Goldens:
1. Neither of our Goldens had a 'doggy' smell to them, and they were even outside dogs. I wonder if those dogs had just been rolling around in the dirt or just weren't all that clean? 
2. Early training would do wonders. They are strong dogs, but my oldest sister walked our golden when she was 7 with no trouble. My mom did obedience with him from an early age and not only could you walk him with no trouble, his offleash manners were great too.

Collies:
1. Teddy is always super happy to see us and wants to be with us all the time. He's a Velcro dog--stuck to us no matter what. His tail is constantly going when we're talking to him or paying attention to him at all.

2. Teddy, like I said in the other thread, wasn't properly socialized as a puppy, so it takes him a lot longer to warm up than I think most collies. But, he's gotten better, and now he will approach people on his own terms (people calling and reaching for him still freak him out). He'll get pets but until he recognizes them as a true 'friend' he mostly leaves them alone. He doesn't bug people for attention unless it's us, haha.


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## Sammgirl (Feb 6, 2009)

I have found that dogs with floppy ears often have a "houndy" type smell that I dislike. I think it may have something to do with the wax build up in flop eared dogs. IMHO, the worst smelling breed I've encountered is a bassett hound. I'm sure that if you take the time to properly upkeep your dog, that you won't have any issues. 

I apologize if that offends anyone. It's just a personal preference on my part. I'm sure there are things about spitz breeds that people hate, which is why everyone has a breed they love the very best. 

I'm also really sensitive to smells, but I find that the dogs with prick or stand up ears have less of that smell in general. 

I should have prefaced this with the fact that MOST goldies I've met have been in a show, and I've never noticed any bad smell on them. 

As for collies- I just love 'em. They have a bit too many health issues for me (really study up on collie eye and PRA before you bye. I think they have some type of retinal detachment issue also due to the shape of their skulls). However, most are notorious for being fabulous family dogs. 

They're beautiful, smart, and good sized, and most I have met have been appropriately friendly, like DogStar mentioned.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Waves - 

Addressing your RC points one at a time here.  
Rough Collie:
1) Although I like the more reserved nature of the collie with strangers, my wife is concerned they may be too aloof. What is it like to come home to a collie? Are they excited to see you? What about lounging about at home...do they want to be by your side, eager to please and tail wagging? We so love that tail wagging factor.
Some are more waggy than others and some are more quiet- but they're ALL always happy to see you. What I like is that they want to be near you, but not necessarily RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU OMG I MUST BE TOUCHING YOU AT ALL TIMES like a lot of the retrievers. 

2) Similar to above, how quickly will a rough collie accept a stranger once they realize they're your friend and how friendly would they then become?
It depends on the dog. Kaylee is the most outgoing of my three and she is instant-wigglebutt within a few minutes of meeting new people. Actually LISTENING to new people and having any sort of respect for them?  Thta takes a few days. Mal is much more subtle about how friendly he is- he just likes to lean and bark "HI HI HI HI" (although the barking has really gotten better as he's grown up and he's really extreme in how vocal he is evne for a vocal breed.) Rittie is the most reserved and she's always happy to meet new people- she comes up, presses her head into their hand or flips their hand up so she can get ear scratches, and then retires to her mat where she can Supervise Her DOmain.  (And Rittie was not socialized much at all.) 


Sammgirl - retinal detachment is a symptom of the most severe form of CEA, and it's not related to skull shape. The GOOD thing is that CEA that severe is almost never seen anymore.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

~waves~ said:


> Golden Retriever:
> 1) Doggy Smell - Phew, from the few that we met at a breeder's house, we were quite surprised at how strong the doggy odor was and the amount of "dirt" that transferred to our hands after petting the dogs. Is this normal? Do Goldies have, ahh, uhh, a smell problem? Or was it just these dogs in particular?


My Golden is 2.5 years old and has only had 3 baths in his life. 2 of them were on my wife's initiative, and utterly pointless IMO. She's a mom and prone to do those sorts of things. Ita est. The other bath was because he rolled in something foul smelling enough to gag a maggot. Normally I just let him go down at the beach and he comes out smelling like the ocean. It doesn't get any better'n that. The ears do get a little funky sometimes with a yeast infection common to flop-eared dogs. I use a homebrew solution of witch hazel, gentian violet, and boric acid to keep that in check. Works like a charm.



~waves~ said:


> 2) Strength - We've gone to a local obedience class a few times now and have been amazed at how much of a struggle it was for Goldie owners just to hold on to their dogs (aged 2 years or less) who were pulling and yanking with all their strength with excitement. Is this a common behaviour and how likely is it that our kids would be able to take the dog for a walk (once ready and under supervision)?


They are strong and prone to be exuberant. Start off from day #1 instilling calm manners and it will be much less of a problem. Puppies do forget themselves--and Goldens get quite large before they quit being puppies--so no little kids should walk one until the dog is trustworthy and reliable on leash. Teach a Golden to fetch properly and you can give him all the exercise he can stand while you sit in a lawn chair. All you need is a ChuckIt and a couple of tennis balls.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Most rough collies will be happy to see you, but not, say, in the way that a Golden or an Irish Setter will. My very reserved rough bitch will come up wagging her tail and then walk away once she thinks you've been greeted enough. However she only does it with two people in our family, the rest she ignores.  

I think overall, either one of those breeds would suite your needs. Maybe you should get one of each.


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## Sophie's Mum (Jan 24, 2009)

I can only speak for Goldens and only on young ones as mine is still a puppy of 5 months.

I happen to LOVE the smell of Sophie's ears and neck. She smells like spice and honey. She has never had an ear infection so I know that's her natural smell. I suppose if her ears were dirty or infected it would't be nice, but that's any dog. 

Her fur CAN smell of doggy when she's been outside for a while, and that's not a smell I enjoy. It quickly goes back to normal after drying her off and a good brushing. Brushing cures alot of smells if you can believe it.

Her fur has never felt greasy, but I know what you mean by that greasy feeling. My niece's fiance's dog is a black lab and when I would pet him, my hand would come back feeling kind of oily. He has the most beautiful shiny coat I've seen on a dog, but that feeling wasn't nice. My niece is a clean freak and now that she's living with the dog , she makes sure he is bathed regularly. The last few times I've played with him and pet him, my hand came back out the same way it came in... clean and oil free. I think nephew-in-law wasn't washing him. 

I've felt that dirty oily feeling on other dogs as well throughout my life. I think some dogs are naturally more oily than others due to what they were bred to do. I don't think Goldens have naturally oily fur, although they were bred to go into water.

Now as for strength... yeah they're strong, pully walkers. I have the calmest puppy on earth yet if I put her on a leash, she wants to go go go! I'm just now getting a handle on her pulling with the help of a martingale collar. She's improving everyday. Training is of utmost importance. 

I'm a very nose driven individual... when something smells funky, I know it right away.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> Golden Retriever:
> 1) Doggy Smell - Phew, from the few that we met at a breeder's house, we were quite surprised at how strong the doggy odor was and the amount of "dirt" that transferred to our hands after petting the dogs. Is this normal? Do Goldies have, ahh, uhh, a smell problem? Or was it just these dogs in particular?
> 2) Strength - We've gone to a local obedience class a few times now and have been amazed at how much of a struggle it was for Goldie owners just to hold on to their dogs (aged 2 years or less) who were pulling and yanking with all their strength with excitement. Is this a common behaviour and how likely is it that our kids would be able to take the dog for a walk (once ready and under supervision)?



Can't help you out with the RC, but have had lots of experiences with Goldens over the years. They do have an odor, some more pronounced than others, and some with coats that were more oily (perhaps due to diet). They drool some, and have been known to leave snot marks on the walls D), but they're so sweet and goofy you don't care! LOL Sounds like the dogs you met and petted needed a bath, since dirt transferred to your hands. The Goldens you mentioned in the obedience classes are typical of any dog whose owner hasn't spent much, if any, time working with their dog from the time they get their puppy to the first class. Goldens DO have a lot of energy, and can be a handful until they mature, but, they're worth it!


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

I've had 3 rough collies and each one was different. 

1. My first collie was a Blue Merle that I got as a young puppy. Blue was a bit aloof with strangers but quickly warmed up to people. He absolutely adored children and, in fact, helped one little girl get over her fear of dogs. The kids used to come take him out to play with them and I had to make it a rule for them to leave a note so I'd know where he was when I got home from work (it was a small town and safer than now). He was excellent with all small animals. In fact, I had a kitten at the time that would never have learned to walk if he hadn't know before I got him (Blue carried him everywhere). He was also very dog friendly. His 4 best buddies were 4 other intact males (2 Dobermans, an Old English Sheepdog, and an Afghan).

2. My second collie was a Sable male that got called Lassie so often that he'd answer to the name. He was a bit more aloof than Blue was but adored children and was very gentle with small animals including my cockatoo and my friend's Yorkshire Terriers. He helped manage a motel and greeted most guests with a wagging tail. Children he insisted on greeting personally. Twice he growled and would not stop growling at someone trying to check in (they were not checked in needless to say). This collie loved to be groomed!

3. My 3rd collie was a Tri-color who also helped manage a hotel. Some people were afraid of him (Tris are primarily black) but there was no real reason to be. His big thing was Harleys. Except for when they were started up, he loved Harleys because all the riders who came through and stayed with us brought him cookies. He recognized that sound till the day he died.

I think as long as you are careful to purchase from a good, responsible breeder that you'll be happy with either breed. But I naturally hope you'll choose a collie.


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## DogsforMe (Mar 11, 2007)

The goldens I've met at my obedience club have mostly been over the top, strong pulling dogs. They need to be trained from the minute you bring them home at 8 w/o. You would have to watch that it didn't knock over your 4 y/o.
I've found that if you bath a dog too much, they get more of a doggy odour than when you leave them go for a couple/few months. With my border collies I've got all prepared to give them a bath, & after a good brushing found they didn't need the bath.
The only thing I'd have against the rough collie is there is a lot of grooming to be done with their thick coats.
Then there's finding out about the diseases that afflict each breed & make sure the breeders have done all the necessary health checks.
Then there's your 2 older cats. They would have to be introduced slowly to the puppy & make sure the puppy doesn't chase the cats & that they have an escape route to get away from the pup & somewhere where the pup isn't allowed to go to call their own.


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## Rough_Collies2008 (Jan 4, 2008)

*What is it like to come home to a collie?* What is it like? Well four collie heads squished in the door window(once they know you are home), eagerly awaiting you to open the door. Once open all four giving their best Collie kisses, and body wags to say hello.

I have four Collies, and all are quite happy when you come home. 

*What about lounging about at home...do they want to be by your side, eager to please and tail wagging?*

I wouldn't say they need to be at your side 24/7. Sometimes they will come sleep by you, but many times...mine prefer taking off for the next available couch. My four like to please, but they get bored very quickly. I would say they can be stubborn sometimes. 

*Are they aloof?* I would say Riley is the most friendly, as well as Angel. They love everyone. Aspen is friendly, but no...she does not put on a big tail wag when people meet her. There are a few people she will go up to on her own accord, but in general...she prefers people she knows. Once she knows you, she opens up. Dawson is a lot like Aspen.


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## kacaju (Jan 2, 2008)

Rough Collie:
1) Although I like the more reserved nature of the collie with strangers, my wife is concerned they may be too aloof. What is it like to come home to a collie? Are they excited to see you? What about lounging about at home...do they want to be by your side, eager to please and tail wagging? We so love that tail wagging factor.
2) Similar to above, how quickly will a rough collie accept a stranger once they realize they're your friend and how friendly would they then become?

My smooth collie (he's half rough, his daddy is a rough!!) Is always excited to see any of the 5 of us come home. In fact right now he is on his doggy bed (after I kicked him off the sofa) in the same troom as me as I am on the computer. My mixed breed is upstairs somewhere (probably sleeping on my daughter's bed!!)
I don't find him *needy* by he does enjoy the company of us. If I am outside the collie is with me, where as my mix is on the deck watching me from there.

I will tell you, that once the school buses start coming to drop the kids off the collie is at the window looking for the kids and always greets them at the door VERY HAPPY to see them.
As being aloof... I had friends over one afternoon and once both dogs greeted everyone, they both went off and layed down. (my mix is 9 years old and the collie is 2)
The collie is a calm dog. I take him to pet therapy visits and just last week we were at the children's hospital and all the parents commented on how calm he was for a 2 year old dog. I had a 3 year old girl just follow us around and he was so good with her. Never once was I afraid he'd knock her over. She must have hugged and kissed him 20 times!!
I do notice during the visits he is calm and has no problem with multiple people petting him, he is not a in your face type of dog. He enjoys the people. Just not a wiggly worm type of dog that is hard to calm down. KWIM??

As I mentioned in your other post, my 9 year old can take him for a walk around the block with no problem.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I feel like the Retrievers are getting a bit of a bad rep in the "clingy" department. 

When I was young, my family lived in an apartment and couldn't have the dog I was DYING to own. My dad's best friend and his wife always had two black Labs, though, and I was at their house every minute to spend time with those animals. To this day that line of Labs (there were probably four of them as I was growing up) were the best behaved dogs I have ever met. They weren't show dogs, they weren't working dogs...they were just well-loved, well-trained pets. And they were never, EVER "hard to calm down" or control. They loved attention and were also perfectly content to take a nap in the other room while we ate dinner.

That same couple is now retired and living near Sacramento. They have a yellow Lab and a yellow Lab/Golden mix. The one is a facility dog, the other is a hearing dog. As you would expect from dogs with such jobs, they are polite, calm, obedient, and receptive to people without being clingy.

I currently live with two Lab mixes. One of them is about as opposite of "clingy" as I can imagine. The other is a velcro dog, but I suspect that behavior has more to do with his treatment before he came to me and the fact that he is severely disabled than it does with his breed. He is happy to wander outside and nap or chew a bone in the yard, as long as he knows someone is inside waiting for him. Neither dog asks for attention because we have trained them not to. They receive attention when we are ready to give it.

I think the Retrievers are, over all, very friendly and very exuberant. I think it's a mistake to say that they are (as a breed) clingy and dependant, though. That has NOT been the case at all, in my experience.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Both of our dogs (rough and smooth collie) want to be with their people. They don't have to be in your laps at all times, but they want to be where you are: in the house, on the deck, taking a walk, etc. Cameron will usually lie by your feet. Toby will be in the room somewhere he can see you.

Neither of the guys is a big tail wagger, but you still know they're happy to have you around. On the other hand, the collie bitch that we had with us for a while last winter was a huge, tail wagging, PET ME NOW kind of gal. They run the gammut.

Both of them gladly meet new people. Toby, in particular, is our "people dog". If we go to the dog park, he couldn't care less about the other dogs. But he has to make the rounds of every person in the park. He'll go up to each one, get petted and then move on to the next one. After he's allowed all of them to pet him, he always comes back to me.

Both of them are polite, but not enthusiastic with people they don't know. People that they do know they greet much more personally. "I'm happy to see YOU." Cameron will jump up on some people he knows. We're working on that...


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## 8 (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks everyone! Some really great responses and helpful comments!!

If my wife would let me, I'd get one of each!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm starting to suspect that DF is HQ for the World Collie Conspiracy.

I have great memories of Rough Collies from my childhood. Lassie was a major TV and movie star for-like-ever, and they were massively popular during my youth. You'll be glad you got one.

Funnily enough, Golden Retrievers are not really my kind of dog. I appreciate aloofness in a dog, but my Golden doesn't have a speck of it. It's all out there, all the time. Still, he makes me laugh every day. This is not the dog I wanted, but my son picked him. Having lived with him for a couple of years, I'm sure I'll pretty much always have one around. Every life needs a little comic relief.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Marsh Muppet said:


> I have great memories of Rough Collies from my childhood. Lassie was a major TV and movie star for-like-ever, and they were massively popular during my youth.


One thing if you get a collie... this may be good, or bad, depending on how you look at it...

EVERYONE over the age of 50, and a lot of younger people too, will come up to you and coo over your dog and tell you about the collie they had as a kid.

I love it, and my dogs bask in the attention, especially Toby. So to me, this is a good thing.


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## GenuineGoldens (Feb 24, 2009)

~waves~ said:


> Golden Retriever:
> 1) Doggy Smell - Phew, from the few that we met at a breeder's house, we were quite surprised at how strong the doggy odor was and the amount of "dirt" that transferred to our hands after petting the dogs. Is this normal? Do Goldies have, ahh, uhh, a smell problem? Or was it just these dogs in particular?
> 2) Strength - We've gone to a local obedience class a few times now and have been amazed at how much of a struggle it was for Goldie owners just to hold on to their dogs (aged 2 years or less) who were pulling and yanking with all their strength with excitement. Is this a common behaviour and how likely is it that our kids would be able to take the dog for a walk (once ready and under supervision)?
> 
> ...


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