# Trying to figure out what is causing issues...



## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

So Porsche has never had great poops unless I feed -exclusively- the kibble that her breeder recommended. 

I don't think I feed horrible things, so kind of want to figure out what I can give her that would work well with her. 

Her kibble works nicely (she's on a brand called TLC - they have a direct selling model in Canada where they deliver it to your doorstep when you order). It's a very high quality food from what I've been able to gather. 

I'm currently testing out a theory of what pizzles do to her digestive system. I've stopped all other treats and I'm only going to feed her kibble and her normal amount of pizzles (2-3 little end-cuts per day) for a few days and see if her stool stabilizes. 

I typically feed raw egg every other day (proven itself to benefit her and stool is great) along with kibble, then for treats I use pizzles, hotdogs (large amounts definitely cause soft stool), 95% meat canned food (wellness brand I think, all the different proteins they have - if she has more than like, one kong, so 2-3 tablespoons per day, her stool also goes soft), and recently just tried a more balanced (also Wellness) canned food as kong-stuffer. The beef version consistently produces weird soft crumbly stools that are really hard to pick up cause they just fall apart into little pieces. Haven't tried the other versions yet. 

I've bought a few different cans of, including other brands (can't remember which), in an effort to see if she'll do well with any of them as treats. 

Oh yeah, and I also know that raw anything (even a bone with no meat on it) will give her pure runs. I also feed her dog treats from TLC, and she does great with them too. I've tried small amounts of cheese as treats and it was either coincidence (because the amounts were REALLY TINY), but all the times I've tried her digestive system had screamed bloody murder.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

If it were me, I would give nothing but her kibble (and water) for 3-5 days. If the stool has not improved, evaluate the kibble or portion, etc. After that, I would add in/change one thing at a time every 3-5 days. Hopefully in that time you will see whether or not each item has an effect on her stool and can look for any common denominators between them.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

That's smart, actually. And I can always use the kibble as a training reward.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Totally!

Keeping a journal can be really helpful too.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Exactly, that's what I'm gonna use this thread for.  That way its a journal that I can also get advice on (like yours just now!)


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Good luck and keep us posted


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

When we were sifting through Toby's allergies and sensitivities, we put a complete HALT on everything other than kibble and water. 
That's it, for a solid 3 weeks. 

If we saw improvement - we would check the bag of his food and match the ingredients to the box of biscuits - whatever was the "odd man out" is what we were essentially testing for.... So for example, his food was Lamb and Rice as a puppy, I believe... and his biscuits were chicken - when we added the biscuits back, his rash (poops, hives, anaphylaxis, pick a reaction....) would reoccur and we would know - OKAY, No chicken. 

As time went on, we managed to wean out every little thing that caused him an issue - and sure sometimes we still run into trouble, but overall we've got it pretty well figured out. It takes time though, so be patient and after each episode make sure you return to what was keeping her 'normal'. 

Even if she's on a good food, if you find her poops are still not quite what you'd like to see from her (they should be firmly formed, but not "tightly packed" and should basically have the consistency of a firm dough) then you may want to experiment with other formula's within the brand - or a new brand altogether.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

So about 24 hours later, and I've noticed two things - she's showing signs of being sick of her kibble. This has been building gradually. Maybe it's because there's a lot of commotion going on in the morning/evenings, maybe I'm feeding her quite a bit and she's not that hungry (always hungry for treats though), but she'll walk away from her bowl when I put it down. She'll come back to it and eat it slowly some time later, but very.. reluctantly. 

Could be that the way I store the kibble is making it go stale too quickly, maybe she's just sick of it, maybe I'm feeding her too much for her to be super excited about food? Not sure. 

And thing number two - stool was perfect this morning.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

BostonBullMama said:


> As time went on, we managed to wean out every little thing that caused him an issue - and sure sometimes we still run into trouble, but overall we've got it pretty well figured out. It takes time though, so be patient and after each episode make sure you return to what was keeping her 'normal'.


Agree that this is super important. Let her body reset before moving on to something else. That may take some time.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

pawsaddict said:


> Agree that this is super important. Let her body reset before moving on to something else. That may take some time.


Agreed. That is the plan!


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Alla said:


> So about 24 hours later, and I've noticed two things - she's showing signs of being sick of her kibble. This has been building gradually. Maybe it's because there's a lot of commotion going on in the morning/evenings, maybe I'm feeding her quite a bit and she's not that hungry (always hungry for treats though), but she'll walk away from her bowl when I put it down. She'll come back to it and eat it slowly some time later, but very.. reluctantly.
> 
> Could be that the way I store the kibble is making it go stale too quickly, maybe she's just sick of it, maybe I'm feeding her too much for her to be super excited about food? Not sure.
> 
> And thing number two - stool was perfect this morning.



If her kibble is "boring" to her, your first 'test' can be to blend another formula of the same brand and do a gradual switch to something that my be more interesting. Expect to see soft stools for the first 3 days or so, but if they're still happening after about a week you're either moving too quickly, or that flavor/formula isn't working for her and you should return to the 'boring' kibble. 

Lot's of people rotate flavors/formula's within a brand because their dogs enjoy variety.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

BostonBullMama said:


> If her kibble is "boring" to her, your first 'test' can be to blend another formula of the same brand and do a gradual switch to something that my be more interesting. Expect to see soft stools for the first 3 days or so, but if they're still happening after about a week you're either moving too quickly, or that flavor/formula isn't working for her and you should return to the 'boring' kibble.
> 
> Lot's of people rotate flavors/formula's within a brand because their dogs enjoy variety.


Unfortunately that's not an option here. TLC only makes one formula. It has Lamb, Chicken, and Salmon in it I believe. (Ingredient list: https://tlcpetfood.com/dogfood/#info_meats)
But yeah I'll maybe experiment with another brand and see if it goes over well. But one thing at a time!


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

What's your food budget like? Maybe we can help find something that interests her and that she does well on as a starting point?


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

BostonBullMama said:


> What's your food budget like? Maybe we can help find something that interests her and that she does well on as a starting point?


She used to be super into her kibble, so she could be just tired or the reason I'm thinking too full is because I recently upped her portions by about 1.5x after realizing I made an initial mistake in my calculations... and also I've been giving a lot more treats (kongs and pizzles) due to the rat training. Actually now that I think about it, her disinterest in her food started when we brought the rats home. So maybe she's still not super well adjusted to them yet, and its distracting her from food? So many variables...

I currently pay about $70 (CAD) for 32lb of TLC. I'd rather stay around that range in terms of price, but I don't mind going a bit higher.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Would you say you are a particularly active team or that you would *need* a food rich in proteins? 

What do you specifically look for when you are looking at dog foods?


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

BostonBullMama said:


> Would you say you are a particularly active team or that you would *need* a food rich in proteins?
> 
> What do you specifically look for when you are looking at dog foods?


I wouldn't say we're like, running for hours a day or anything. Pretty low key. She gets an average of 1 hour walk spread throughout the day. Most of the time inside she spends lying down. She does not run (like ever) unless we're at the dog park and she can run with other dogs - we haven't gone in a good month because of she's in heat. We do one agility lesson per week (which isn't really running, I'll be lucky to get a trot out of her, she's veeery low key). On the other hand, she has stamina to go for a long, long time if needed, but it's almost never needed.

What do I look for when looking at dog foods... I look for meat to be the first ingredient. I look for lack of meat byproducts. I look for majority of ingredients to be things I can pronounce and/or vitamins/minerals. 

I haven't done much research into proper percentages and whatnot. Mostly just kind of... trust the breeder and the condition of his dogs (which is excellent) and the longevity of them (which is also excellent).


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Haven't looked at the price, but I believe the medium sized bags in Pet Valu are about $30, and then obviously if you'd want 32lbs then you'd buy 2 so it would total around $70 with tax. (My cats are on Petcurreans "Now") 

So here's a recipe high in proteins for active or sporting dogs: http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/fit-and-free-grain-free-adult
(Don't bother with recipes that claim to be 'all life stages' because different stages will require different nutrients, therefore an 'All life stages' food isn't _really_ all stages)

They also have it canned - I didn't read the ingredients list though so that's at your discretion; http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/fit-and-free-grain-free-chicken-turkey-trout-stew

Just a duck flavor for sensitive tummys: http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-duck
Salmon for sensitive tummys: http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-salmon
Turkey for Sensitive tummys - this one has no potatoes or grains: http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-grain-free-potato-free-turkey

There's also more canned options, but you can browse around  haha. 

I don't know much about Nutro but they are AAHA Approved as well: http://www.nutro.ca/en/natural-dog-food/natural-choice-dog-food.aspx

A lot of people here also suggest Wellness or Wellness Core: http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/index.aspx 

And of course, I've got to recommend my favorite - Merrick: http://www.merrickpetcare.com/ ($70)


Meat by products also aren't _actually_ bad. They are just the parts of the animal humans wouldn't normally consume such as intestines, brains, feet, etc... They can still provide adequate nutritional value for your dog.  It's just the 'left overs' of the animal that wouldn't be declared fit for human consumption, and humans are quite different from dogs 

Oh and by product meals are basically the same thing, but they've been rendered and overcooked into a sort of 'stew' until the water has been boiled out - then they skim out the fat and bake it. Inedible to humans - yup, but they aren't necessarily _bad_ for dogs. 

Let me see if I can find the study... there was one done in... 2002? 2003? where they compared pet food by product meal to feed grade by product meal and actually found that it was higher in protein, lower in ash, more digestible... etc.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Oooh, I like the ingredients in GO! (your first link). I'm also pretty sure I've seen it in pet stores around here. It's much higher in protein than TLC, but maybe I'll buy a small bag and see how she does on it. 

The sensitivity stuff ingredient list looks very, very similar to the TLC ingredient list (and the percentages are comparable as well). Except it's got a lot of "fermentation product"s at the end... any idea what that is?

I'm not a big fan of wellness, she doesn't seem to be doing well on any of their canned stuff. 

Merrick's stuff is pretty good too, again similar to TLC except for the fermentation products. I like their inclusion of glucosamine and chondroitin, TLC has that as well. GO! doesn't seem to have any of it (from my brief look). It's also super high in protein.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Here's one... http://www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf

Yes the GO link I sent you was for sporting dogs, I chose that one since your TLC had a LOT of protein sources haha. Figured it might have been important to you  
Fermented products aren't terrible either, in fact fermented vegetables in dog food can be good for fighting cancer cells among other things... I'll link you, hold on.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

> Fermented vegetables have a very long history in virtually every native diet, and have always been highly valued for their health benefits. But what many pet guardians don’t realize is that fermented veggies can also be beneficial in keeping pets healthy, thanks in large part to their probiotic effect. As I’ve discussed in many videos and articles here at Healthy Pets, beneficial gut bacteria play a critical role in dealing with digestive issues and a wide range of other health problems in dogs and cats.





> And fermented vegetables not only provide a wider variety of beneficial bacteria than probiotic supplements, they also provide far more of them. About the highest level of colony-forming units you’ll find in human probiotic supplements is 10 billion. But fermented veggies produced by probiotic starter cultures can produce 10 trillion colony-forming units of bacteria. That means one human serving size of fermented veggies provides the same benefit as an entire bottle of high-potency probiotics.





> Fermented vegetables are also potent chelators and detoxifiers, so they help rid your pet’s body of a wide variety of toxins, including heavy metals. The fermentation process makes the nutrients inside the food more bioavailable as well. It produces vitamin C, B vitamins, vitamin K2, and enzymes (which all support metabolic activity), choline (which balances and nourishes the blood), and acetylcholine as well. In addition, the lactic acid produced by fermentation is a chemical repressor that fights cancer cells without harming healthy cells.


http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/08/31/pet-fermented-vegetables.aspx


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Thank you for those.  Didn't know that! (Research and stuff... I try to control how much I do lol).

I wonder, during coat-blowing season, are they supposed to look kind of... scraggly and raggedy? I'm not a huge fan of how Porsche looks like now. She had a gorgeous coat when we first got her, but when shedding began the quality deteriorated pretty fast. Animals (at least horses and cats) look so much sleeker in their summer coats, but Porsche just looks... like a stray lol. I wonder if that'll pass once she's completely done shedding, or if it's the food?


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

It's probably just because she's blowing coat. 

My buddies husky looks really ragged when he blows coat. Buddy usually ends up bringing him over so I can give him a good brush out and then he looks normal again for about 2 days and then needs another brush out because the undercoat gets tangled in the top coat. 

Could be similar for your gal, I'd just take a brush to her and see what happens. If she still looks sort of raggedy and her coat doesn't have a nice shine like it used to, then it's possible it's the food.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

We've been brushing her daily for about a month, each time getting about a cat's worth of fur out. She's also been groomed twice in that time period, with the groomers saying each time they've never seen a dog blow so much coat. Still looks raggedy. :\

She's been on that same food for a while though... At least the 3 months she'd been at the breeder's, although not sure what her previous family fed her.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Give her more time. The squirrels around here are looking pretty raggedy too because their coats are still thinning for summer.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Alrighty, so checking in. I'm positive that she hasn't had anything except kibble in two days but stool today was of the crumbly and sorta softy variety. Gonna continue monitoring.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Her coat will look better once she's done blowing coat. This is the typical look of huskies blowing coat:









If it was a food allergy to something in the previous kibble or her food was switched cold-turkey (without blending) it'll likely take more than two days for her stools to improve. Give it a couple of weeks unless it gets worse for more than 1-2 poops.

Edit: I know Porche isn't a husky, but shepherds get the same scraggly look too. I think it has to do with the amount of undercoat and the shortness of the top coat.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I agree with Gingerkid. You'll need to give her more time to 'regulate'. If she's still crumbly - I'd add a wet food topper and add a scoop to her meals because the crumbly poops (to me) would indicate that she isn't getting enough fluids from her foods. Even if she guzzles water, that doesn't always make a difference. Cats for example need a wet food topper because 70% of their water intake is in the food they eat, and even if they drink lots of water it's often times not received the same way by their bodies.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Just please be wary of changing things around too fast. It take the body time to acclimate to a change in diet and if you are constantly changing things up, adding things and taking away, you are just going to be continually assaulting her digestive system.

A true food trial is 8-10 weeks. You may see changes before then but I would do at least 3 weeks on any particular regimen unless she's having just completely awful (liquid) stools.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Wow, really eh, that long? Also for the record there hasn't been a food switch for her for at least 6 months. Possibly longer. I just stopped giving her treats and am only giving her her regular kibble.
Her stool was fine again this morning. And she's rediscovered her love for kibble now that she's not getting a gazillion treats every day. 

Arrg it's so hard to not do treats...


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Okay so she hasn't had anything other than kibble in a while.

Her poops are consistently inconsistent - perfect in the morning and soft in the afternoon/evening.

Is that normal? What's going on? Still adjusting?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I was feeding the dogs raw once a day and dogs would have somewhat soft poops. Switched to twice a day and issue gone for good. Sometimes feeding more often is easier on the gut. Could try feeding her 3x a day.

If you are feeding 2 equal sized meals a day try making one larger than the other. I'd feed more in the evening as we walk before dinner. If you walk after dinner then maybe make the morning meal larger. Animals lighten the load when they are active and if the load isn't quite dry yet, too bad.

Or, Sassy's lesson. I tried to fatten her up and she happily ate it all and pooped large soft stools without gaining an ounce. Try cutting back on one meal a bit, maybe 10% less.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Kathyy said:


> I was feeding the dogs raw once a day and dogs would have somewhat soft poops. Switched to twice a day and issue gone for good. Sometimes feeding more often is easier on the gut. Could try feeding her 3x a day.
> 
> If you are feeding 2 equal sized meals a day try making one larger than the other. I'd feed more in the evening as we walk before dinner. If you walk after dinner then maybe make the morning meal larger. Animals lighten the load when they are active and if the load isn't quite dry yet, too bad.
> 
> Or, Sassy's lesson. I tried to fatten her up and she happily ate it all and pooped large soft stools without gaining an ounce. Try cutting back on one meal a bit, maybe 10% less.


Hrm, 3 times a day sounds interesting except I kind of do that already? Usually I feed a little bit during training at lunch. Not anything huge by any means, but like... up to 1/3rd of her dinner gets fed at lunch. Should I try more even distribution for 3 times?

We do typically walk before dinner. It seems like it's the morning feeding that's causing problems (somehow), although that's the feeding that's been messed with the least. It's also typically her largest meal of the day. Should I maybe try to reduce that feeding, feed half of it at lunch, and then a full dinner?


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

The coat thing could be her heat, too, some dogs get a bit scraggly.

It's warm where you are, right? It's possible it's the heat causing the mushy poop in the latter portion of the day, you do say you do a walk before her "dinner" portion.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Hrm, can warm weather actually do that?

I've noticed that if she goes on the morning walk, poops are great. If she waits until the lunch walk, they'll be mushy. And dinner walks are always mushy. :/

Could it seriously be just warm weather? I.e unfixable with diet changes? Lol


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

If she is maintaining weight and happy and heathy otherwise, do you need to fix it?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Females in heat look pretty ragged sometimes. It's probably more that than the seasonal coat blowing (or maybe they combined together to make it even worse).


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Well, it is annoying to pick it up, that's for sure.  I'm never sure if she's going to go once or twice or three times during a walk so I've been caught off guard without enough bags on me. Small thing, I know. 

I guess if that's just normal for her, then I can add all the treats back in then? Cause the then it's not the treats creating soft poops, but rather just... heat or something. 

Or should I try to stick it out longer?

Or try a different food and see if that helps?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Watson has always been like that. One well formed poop in the morning. During his afternoon walk the first will be fine, but then he'll do one or two more that are often squishy and gross. It's pretty normal for some dogs. He's always been that way despite changes in kibble and treats over time.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Watson has always been like that. One well formed poop in the morning. During his afternoon walk the first will be fine, but then he'll do one or two more that are often squishy and gross. It's pretty normal for some dogs. He's always been that way despite changes in kibble and treats over time.


...guess who's getting a pizzle tonight.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Okay so I solved this in my dog and wanted to share in case anyone else is reading. 

It was Kathyy's suggestion that did it. I split her food into 3 unequal meals instead of two equal - I feed 2 parts in the morning, 1 part at lunch, and 3 parts at night. I've gone through 2 kibble switches recently (she's on Acana now) and no matter what treats I give her, or what food, her digestive system is consistently perfect.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Have you tried a supplement called "nupro?" Some dogs just have bad tummies, Lincoln is one of those dogs, and this has a lot of good stuff in it that is so good for them, a friend turned me onto it, and I have also started feeding it to the old man here, who was also having some digestive issues and his have all but cleared up as well.

I dont know where you are located, but here is the parent site to it: www.nuprosupplements.com/

Here is where I order it from, if in the US, these people are great with great CS, you talk to a REAL person first time every time and they are very nice!!! www.chewy.com/Nupro‎


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Have you tried a supplement called "nupro?" Some dogs just have bad tummies, Lincoln is one of those dogs, and this has a lot of good stuff in it that is so good for them, a friend turned me onto it, and I have also started feeding it to the old man here, who was also having some digestive issues and his have all but cleared up as well.
> 
> I dont know where you are located, but here is the parent site to it: www.nuprosupplements.com/
> 
> Here is where I order it from, if in the US, these people are great with great CS, you talk to a REAL person first time every time and they are very nice!!! www.chewy.com/Nupro‎


I've switched her to Acana now, and she's not doing great on their Chicken formula. Just got a lamb formula to try, and also picked up a can of Nupro based on your recommendation.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

We're feeding Acana Ranchlands here and Toby switched over like he'd been eating it his entire life and has done amazing on it since!


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