# Dogs attacked by groundhog



## fw2014 (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi;
We had a scary incident this evening. Our two dogs were outside, and were attacked by a groundhog. I wasn't there myself, so I am going by 2nd hand info from another family member.
Apparently, the dogs were being let out of the back door so they could run into their fenced in run in the backyard. Normally, they don't have to be led on leashes - they just go into their run and we shut the gate. 
But this time, one or both of the dogs spotted the groundhog and ran after it. Instead of running away, the groundhog turned around to face the dogs and began "attacking" them.
When I saw what was going on, the groundhog was facing the dogs while the dogs kept trying to pin down the groundhog. Both of the dogs were excited, jumping around. 
I attempted to separate the dogs from the groundhog by spraying them with the hose, but that had no effect. That was surprising to me, as our dogs are usually afraid of water. One of the dogs won't even step in puddles. Both are afraid of the hose or water bottles.

Eventually - after a few minutes, the groundhog turned and ran away.
I called the police (non-emergency #), but they just referred me to the county animal control. When I tried to contact them, all I got was voicemail.

The dogs are current on their rabies vaccines. I inspected both dogs, and didn't find any bite marks or blood on them.
I plan to call the animal control on Monday morning when they open. We are not going to let the dogs out into the yard unattended, in case the groundhog returns.

So, I'm wondering whether this groundhog is rabid, or maybe they can exhibit aggressive behavior like that. I think that, unless told otherwise, I am assuming the animal is rabid.

any thoughts on this?
Thanks
FW


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## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

Personally, sounds to me like the dogs attacked the ground hog, not the other way around. The groundhog probably didn't have a chance to have the option of running and realized it's best chance was to try to make a stand and get the dogs to back off. With two dogs, I'm not surprised the groundhog defended itself instead of turning and running. That would have been a death sentence for sure. It's fight or flight - flight wasn't a valid reaction so it chose fight. My dogs have been in similar situations with both a cat and a raccoon in the yard. Sometimes wildlife will venture into the yard and the dogs zoom out of the door and across the yard in the blink of an eye, catching the 'intruding' animal off guard. 

Without witnessing the groundhog's actual behavior I couldn't tell you if it was rabid or not. Did they kill it/actually get to it? Many times when dogs are inexperienced they do as you said, just getting excited/hopping around not knowing what to actually do with the thing once they catch it.


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## fw2014 (Jun 10, 2014)

Yes. The dogs did go after the groundhog. Eventually we got the dogs into the fenced run, but the standoff kind of continued with the dogs inside and the groundhog outside the fence. Eventually it ran off, seemingly unhurt, or not seriously hurt.
From what I know about rabid animals, this groundhog was not exhibiting the classic behavior of a rabid animal, which would be the animal going at the dog with ferocity, biting viciously, and not letting go. A couple months ago, a child was attacked by a racoon in Paterson NJ. That animal got a hold of the poor boy and wouldn't let go until someone was able to hit it with a broom handle. That animal tested positive for rabies and the child was treated appropriately.

I am going to call animal control on Monday (when they're open) and talk to someone, file a report if that is the protocol. I had always thought that the local police handled this kind of thing, but with all the outsourcing, etc, that has changed. If it had been a person who was being attacked, I would have called 9-1-1, and then the local cops would have responded. In that case, I'm pretty sure they would have gotten someone from animal control to the scene.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

We have groundhogs around us. They typically stay off our property which I assumed it was because of the dog scent in our yard. When our last dog died there was a period of a few months that we didn't have a dog and the groundhog(s) ventured into our backyard which they never did before which is why I assumed that the dog scent was the reason. This is also true of the deer when they come around. I certainly would talk to the animal control, google for more info and possibly talk to your Vet to get as clear of an answer as you can get.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If your dogs are UTD on their rabies boosters there shouldn't be anything to worry about. The groundhog had a right to defend herself and didn't exhibit any inappropriate behaviors. It ran away when it had the chance, so that's a pretty good indication it was in sound mind and was just surprised by being rushed by 2 dogs. Just a normal groundhog-in-the-yard encounter, I'd say. Hopefully she learns her lesson about going in the fenced area .

From what I can find, the females get a lot more defensive when they have babies. So probably it's a female and has babies nearby.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

What did you want the police to do about it?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

It's a 12lb, solitary, territorial squirrel during mating/baby season. That kind of behavior is not unusual, or remarkable in any way. It certainly isn't indicative of rabies, and frankly you're lucky your dogs didn't get torn up.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

There is a real reason Earth dog breeds are not soft.. These little (cute rodents) are very strong and violent creatures when it comes to defending themselves..


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Groundhogs can be bad-a$$ mofos. It is not at all unusual for them to stand their ground to defend themselves.

In any case, it would be very rare for a prey animal to contract rabies. Whatever rabid animal might have given them rabies in the first place almost always kills them. If your dogs' rabies vaccinations are up to date I wouldn't worry about it.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

agree more likely to get the plague from their fleas..


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## fw2014 (Jun 10, 2014)

parus said:


> What did you want the police to do about it?


It was just an overreaction on my part. I was thinking rabies, and calling the cops was my first reaction. I did not call 9-1-1, but used the non-emergency #.
I appreciate all of your input on this. I feel a lot better about it.


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## fw2014 (Jun 10, 2014)

sassafras said:


> Groundhogs can be bad-a$$ mofos. It is not at all unusual for them to stand their ground to defend themselves.
> 
> In any case, it would be very rare for a prey animal to contract rabies. Whatever rabid animal might have given them rabies in the first place almost always kills them. If your dogs' rabies vaccinations are up to date I wouldn't worry about it.


 Just curious; Why is it that raccoons are the most prevalent carrier of rabies in the U.S.?


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## Terriermon (Mar 19, 2016)

Please don't bother the police with this. They have better things to do. What do you expect them to do anyway? They aren't going to remove the groundhog. They are not common rabies carriers anyway, very unlikely it was rabid. Yes, they will defend themselves. My first dog a pitbull mix would attack them if he got to them in time and they always fought back, they are tough little buggers. However a sharp blow to the nose will kill them almost instantly, cause of how their skulls are shaped. Same with porcupines and similar large rodents. If it keeps being a problem, get your dogs to corner it then whack it with a shovel (restrain the dogs first so you don't hit them by mistake!). You have to hit it square on the front of the snout, not on top of the head, otherwise you'll just have a very angry, messed up groundhog lol

sorry, missed your other post. didn't mean to sound haranguing about the police thing


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

fw2014 said:


> Just curious; Why is it that raccoons are the most prevalent carrier of rabies in the U.S.?


Raccoon are predators and there diet is highly different from a groundhog, so they would have a higher chance of getting it.


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

Terriermon said:


> Please don't bother the police with this. They have better things to do. What do you expect them to do anyway? They aren't going to remove the groundhog. They are not common rabies carriers anyway, very unlikely it was rabid. Yes, they will defend themselves. My first dog a pitbull mix would attack them if he got to them in time and they always fought back, they are tough little buggers. However a sharp blow to the nose will kill them almost instantly, cause of how their skulls are shaped. Same with porcupines and similar large rodents. If it keeps being a problem, get your dogs to corner it then whack it with a shovel (restrain the dogs first so you don't hit them by mistake!). You have to hit it square on the front of the snout, not on top of the head, otherwise you'll just have a very angry, messed up groundhog lol
> 
> sorry, missed your other post. didn't mean to sound haranguing about the police thing


This does not work well with Possums.


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## Terriermon (Mar 19, 2016)

MastiffGuy said:


> This does not work well with Possums.


nope, possums are not rodents 
This little trick only works with things like groundhog, porcupine, beaver....big, with short, blunt skull. When you smack them hard on the front of the nose it drives bone directly into their brain. I learned this from a survival manual LOL...has a section on this cause these animals are easy to catch kill and eat if you're lost in the woods, well maybe not catch, but if you can corner one.

I'm not sure just guessing here based on bits I've heard but I think body temperature and metabolism influence what carries rabies. Animals like raccoons, being 'carnivora' have higher metabolism than herbivores. So the virus can surivive in them long enough for them to spread it around, whereas critters like groundhogs would quickly become weak and die after being infected (likely in their burrows so no one would ever know anyway). This is why possums don't carry rabies...their body temperature is much lower than other mammals and the virus cannot survive and take hold in their system.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Raccoons aren't actually prey animals... they're predators. Mid-level ones, to be sure, rather than apex, but they eat other animals waaaaay more than they are eaten.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

rather my dogs fight a parie dog then encounter a raccoon who are shredders... I think bats and skunks are more known for being rabies carriers


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## fw2014 (Jun 10, 2014)

So I guess we were very lucky that our dogs weren't bitten, let alone injured by the groundhog. So far as calling the police, I only talked to a dispatcher or whomever it is that answers the non-emergency phone. I did not insist that an officer be dispatched, so the phone call is as far as it went. The groundhog ran away while I was on the phone trying to contact the animal control people, who weren't in on Saturday.
FYI; I listen to the police radio a lot, and it always amazes me at what people call the police for. Of course, I only hear the radio call when they dispatch an officer, but dispatching a car on an animal issue is quite common.

Back to groundhogs; What is the difference between a groundhog and a prairie dog? Wikepedia says that groundhogs and woodchucks are the same animal, but not prairie dogs. Hedgehogs are something different as well - more of a porcupine, but unrelated.
And speaking of porcupines... I recall once while hiking in the Catskills I saw another hiker's dog snooping around under a rock, then suddenly came away yelping. Turns out it was a porcupine, and the dog had been shot full of quills. That dog was so patient while his owner pulled the quills out one by one. We do have the occasional porcupine here in Bergen County NJ, but it's very rare. OTOH, I have seen more of them in the Catskills than anywhere else I have hiked.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

A Prairie Dog is slightly bigger than a squirrel and doesn't have a bushy tail like a squirrel. https://www.google.com/search?q=pra...ved=0ahUKEwjqxa7r08vMAhUBVh4KHZJTCpsQ_AUIBigB Groundhog is a rather large ground animal with a flat tail kind of like a Beaver. https://www.google.com/search?q=pra...hUBVh4KHZJTCpsQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=ground+hog

I don't think porcupines shoot their quills but I think the ends have barbs on them that catch very easily. http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/porcupine/

Personally I would rather my dog stay away from them all LOL!!! Our last dog used to bark at them whenever she saw them out in the field, our current dog doesn't seem to pay any attention to them ... of course it may be because they are on the other side of the fence and kind of far enough away. She does like to chase the rabbits that come into the yard.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

fw2014 said:


> Hi;
> We had a scary incident this evening. Our two dogs were outside, and were attacked by a groundhog. I wasn't there myself, so I am going by 2nd hand info from another family member.
> Apparently, the dogs were being let out of the back door so they could run into their fenced in run in the backyard. Normally, they don't have to be led on leashes - they just go into their run and we shut the gate.
> But this time, one or both of the dogs spotted the groundhog and ran after it. Instead of running away, the groundhog turned around to face the dogs and began "attacking" them.
> ...


We do not have groundhogs down here... 

I have run into them while hunting and traveling in other states... From what I have seen, I am kind of surprised your dogs did not kill it... Especially with two dogs....

The water hose did not work because their prey drive had kicked in to a level that nothing else mattered... They become pretty oblivious....

Rabies are not really a concern in herbivores......

And if your dogs are vaccinated, it is not really a concern..


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is a pair of Bassett Hounds making very quick work of a ground hog..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwLQ2Di8cNY


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

At the farm, out dogs constant tangled with wildlife. Raccoons, muskrats, beavers, skunks, fox, porcupine, coyotes, everything. Needless to say, they were up to date on rabies. Your dogs should be fine, I think. The one would recall off wildlife he was attacking usually, the other, he would come back when it was dead. We grabbed the rifle in case the dog started to lose, but that's about all we could do. Like heck we were sticking our hands in that tangle!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Not counting things I have intentionally ran with hunting dogs..

Over the years, my dogs have chased and killed all sorts of small critters...

Raccoons, rats, possums, bobcat, a nutria, a few iguanas, coyotes...

All in all I would rather then not chase raccoons... But if they scrap with one, I am not keen to put my hands in there.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

had a close encounter with an angry nutria... lol .. flat boat out frogging at night.. Friends brother beat it with and ore and pulled it in the boat it was so stupid telling him it's not dead don't bring it in the boat.. If I hadn't been more afraid of snakes in the water I would of jumped out of the boat when it woke up angry....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

PatriciafromCO said:


> had a close encounter with an angry nutria... lol .. flat boat out frogging at night.. Friends brother beat it with and ore and pulled it in the boat it was so stupid telling him it's not dead don't bring it in the boat.. If I hadn't been more afraid of snakes in the water I would of jumped out of the boat when it woke up angry....


They will pay you for nutria tails in Louisiana.... Florida does not pay for them.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

lol.. in Louisiana if you see it,, you eat it.... Nothing like getting my head slammed into a dash board for my friend slamming on the breaks trying to out run the other people stopping to grab a turtle crossing the road..


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

AFAIK groundhogs are pretty similar to the marmots we have up here (Alaska). My dogs both murder them pretty easily, but my dogs are kind of thugs about critters - I can see where they'd present a challenge to dogs that were inexperienced at hunting. I worry more about parasites than about communicable diseases (we keep up to date on vaccinations) or injury to the dogs, honestly. Regular dewormings are needed here. I suspect most dogs'll try to kill wildlife, given the opportunity. Once I called Cassius in from outside and he came bounding in, and threw a half-alive ptarmigan at me. I just about wet myself. Queenie doesn't bring me presents, she just eats her victims right away.


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

My grandparents' farm dogs were very skilled at killing them. They'd usually get at least a few per week - I'll tell ya, those giant rodents put up a viscous fight! I don't think they can run very fast, so they have to be aggressive. I don't know how the dogs didn't end up with serious injuries. I sure wouldn't want to get near one! 

Bella chased a big fat one under the equipment shed in the field across the street once. It was only a few feet away from the shed in the tall grass and we didn't see it until we were almost on top of it. I could hear the thing growling and hissing from under the shed...thankfully Bella thought better of trying to go in after it...the thing was ready for a fight.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

As I said I do not have a ton of experience with Groundhogs. But I have seen them scrap with dogs. I hunted a farm in Kentucky annually for 10 years. They had a JRT whose sole job was groundhogs... The was great at it. They had crops that attracted the groundhogs... So he seemed to always be killing one... One day I was in a deer stand in a row of trees off a corn field that had been harvested. There were three groundhogs out in the field.... Here comes the dog along the edge, sees the groundhogs, he ran out at the first one, growl snarl, shake shake shake, dropped it and ran to the next one.... He got all three than continued down the tree line... That is what that dog did all day long. 

I find it odd that folks do not think their dogs know how to kill critters because the dog may not have done it before. Most dogs will play with toys and shake them violently.... In essence they are "killing" the toy. That is what it looks like when a dog kills a small animal. they grab it and shake it. Of course a dog gets better at it after having done it a bit. But nearly all dogs have the basic idea.....


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

especially the ones that like to dissect and rip out the squeaker when it's not enough just to kill the squeaker, the ones that must rip the squeaker out of the toy


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Ralphie "kills" chunks of sod. He rips the dead bits out of the ground, shakes them and flings dirt at me, then drops it and moves on to the next one.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

My guess is those groundhogs were young, Johnny, a full grown groundhog is far too big for a JRT to pick up and shake. Squash has killed young groundhogs that panic and pop out on mushing trails right in front of us, but I don't think even he could pick up a big mature groundhog and shake it. They can get HUGE in and around urban/suburban neighborhoods where there aren't natural predators and those big ones are super mean. They will come at you.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I can remember years ago when people were going to make their fortune raising Nutria. It sort of did not pan out so they just turned them loose. They look like big ugly rats but have not seen or heard much about them for years. The Marmots are pretty big but one grab by Susie and they were dead.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

I could see where if the groundhog caught the dog just right, it could take a chunk of skin. but trely harm a dog? I do not see it. 

If the dog gets dinged one of two things is going to happen. The dog is going to swear off going after that type of critter or the dog is going to be intense about it.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I could see where if the groundhog caught the dog just right, it could take a chunk of skin. but trely harm a dog? I do not see it.
> 
> If the dog gets dinged one of two things is going to happen. The dog is going to swear off going after that type of critter or the dog is going to be intense about it.


Honestly, this statement just leaves me with the impression that you've never seen a full grown groundhog. They rival decent sized ***** in size/weight - by which I mean can easily be the same size or bigger than a JRT, and frankly attitude. They have different teeth, yeah, but they're rodent teeth which gives them a whole lot of puncture power.

Not that a JRT can't handle them but pick up to shake? No.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

CptJack said:


> Honestly, this statement just leaves me with the impression that you've never seen a full grown groundhog. They rival decent sized ***** in size/weight - by which I mean can easily be the same size or bigger than a JRT, and frankly attitude. They have different teeth, yeah, but they're rodent teeth which gives them a whole lot of puncture power.
> 
> Not that a JRT can't handle them but pick up to shake? No.


The ones I saw the dog kill in Kentucky were 6 pounds or so... I moved them out of the field after the dog went on his way as I figured the dead groundhogs might spook the deer... 

I saw some HUGE groundhogs in Pennsylvania. 

Regardless of size there only so much they can do with those rodent teeth.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Those rodent teeth can, and have, broken bones in smaller dogs and can go to the bone in almost any sized animal. No, they're probably not going to tear a throat out, but they're also about 2" long and have a lot of force behind them.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Don't be fooled by Punxsutawney Phil. I think they drug that poor thing. Groundhogs are badass- quick, ferocious and well armed for a prey animal.

ETA: I called the police nonemergency line when we had a bat in the house because I couldn't find the animal control number. They were fine with giving me the number and gave me a little advice on getting the bat out.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

CptJack said:


> Those rodent teeth can, and have, broken bones in smaller dogs and can go to the bone in almost any sized animal. No, they're probably not going to tear a throat out, but they're also about 2" long and have a lot of force behind them.


I have seen dogs handle a bunch of different critters..... It is still not like raccoon teeth.... Between a raccoon and a serious dog, the dog usually wins... But I have seen and doctored some dogs that looked like that had been juggling chainsaws after messing with a raccoon. The big fear with raccoons is the raccoon leading the dog to water... They seem to know to do this and they will kill the dog nearly every time if they can get it in the water. 

I never said Groundhogs could not bite... I just do not see them doing much damage. We do not have them down here. But we do have tons of nutria and some beavers. Nutria are similar size and do not seem to give the dogs much issue...our suburban neighborhoods in much of florida all have retention ponds, and they all have nutria in them... Regular run of the mill pet dogs kill them all the time. Beavers are bigger and stronger but hunting dogs kill them on a fairly commonly


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

In the country Groundhogs adult are around 10 to 15lbs, The ones in rural areas adult size can be 15 to 25lbs. 
They can be extremely mean when cornered, but really there not speed demons, most quick mid and small dogs kill them pretty quick.
Generally more than one dog, there done. soon as they key on one dog the other kills it from the side or behind.

My giant brute most likely has a harder time with them than mid to small dogs, because he is slower, but he's killed a few, he circles till they go for his back half and then there dead. That is only when there to slow to get under the fence before he spots them, or run to a area I've sealed and then they get away most of the time.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I have seen dogs handle a bunch of different critters..... It is still not like raccoon teeth.... Between a raccoon and a serious dog, the dog usually wins... But I have seen and doctored some dogs that looked like that had been juggling chainsaws after messing with a raccoon. The big fear with raccoons is the raccoon leading the dog to water... They seem to know to do this and they will kill the dog nearly every time if they can get it in the water.
> 
> I never said Groundhogs could not bite... I just do not see them doing much damage. We do not have them down here. But we do have tons of nutria and some beavers. Nutria are similar size and do not seem to give the dogs much issue...our suburban neighborhoods in much of florida all have retention ponds, and they all have nutria in them... Regular run of the mill pet dogs kill them all the time. Beavers are bigger and stronger but hunting dogs kill them on a fairly commonly


I've done raccoon hunting - I am well aware of what they can do to dogs. 

I also live in an area with groundhogs. They are NOTHING like most rodents, and honestly comparing them to beavers, at least, is just wrong. I do not know nutria at all, but I know the other two . It's not just the teeth, it's the attitude. You know those surly little syrian hamsters? Make one of those weigh upward of 15lbs and you've got a groundhog. They're solitary, aggressive, and territorial. They are certainly not afraid of turning around and tearing up a dog. Or cat. Or anything else that it decides it doesn't like. I've seen them go after freaking LAWN MOWERS without much hesitation.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I have seen dogs handle a bunch of different critters..... It is still not like raccoon teeth.... Between a raccoon and a serious dog, the dog usually wins... But I have seen and doctored some dogs that looked like that had been juggling chainsaws after messing with a raccoon. The big fear with raccoons is the raccoon leading the dog to water... They seem to know to do this and they will kill the dog nearly every time if they can get it in the water.
> 
> I never said Groundhogs could not bite... I just do not see them doing much damage. We do not have them down here. But we do have tons of nutria and some beavers. Nutria are similar size and do not seem to give the dogs much issue...our suburban neighborhoods in much of florida all have retention ponds, and they all have nutria in them... Regular run of the mill pet dogs kill them all the time. Beavers are bigger and stronger but hunting dogs kill them on a fairly commonly


Our dog nearly drowned like that. The raccoon led him into the water, and he tried to dunk the dog's head under the water and hold it down. I ran to grab the rifle (1/2 mile sprint, holy god) while my sister threw rocks to try to distract the raccoon (didn't work) but by the time I came back on the 4 wheeler with my dad the dog had found shallower water on a sandbar and threw the raccoon off. He got it down and killed it, along with the babies it was protecting. Felt bad for the raccoon, because it wasn't bothering anybody, but that dog was bound and determined to kill it. He dragged it up on the road and was very proud to show us his kill, though.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

CptJack said:


> I've done raccoon hunting - I am well aware of what they can do to dogs.
> 
> I also live in an area with groundhogs. They are NOTHING like most rodents, and honestly comparing them to beavers, at least, is just wrong. I do not know nutria at all, but I know the other two . It's not just the teeth, it's the attitude. You know those surly little syrian hamsters? Make one of those weigh upward of 15lbs and you've got a groundhog. They're solitary, aggressive, and territorial. They are certainly not afraid of turning around and tearing up a dog. Or cat. Or anything else that it decides it doesn't like. I've seen them go after freaking LAWN MOWERS without much hesitation.


Yup. The big ones can definitely deliver a nasty bite. They're angry, angry creatures.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

CptJack said:


> I've done raccoon hunting - I am well aware of what they can do to dogs.
> 
> I also live in an area with groundhogs. They are NOTHING like most rodents, and honestly comparing them to beavers, at least, is just wrong. I do not know nutria at all, but I know the other two . It's not just the teeth, it's the attitude. You know those surly little syrian hamsters? Make one of those weigh upward of 15lbs and you've got a groundhog. They're solitary, aggressive, and territorial. They are certainly not afraid of turning around and tearing up a dog. Or cat. Or anything else that it decides it doesn't like. I've seen them go after freaking LAWN MOWERS without much hesitation.


LOL now I am going say the same thing to you.... You obviously have not been around many beavers... That are nasty stumpknockers.... They are only social with their family... They will kill strange beavers that come into their territory, And if you catch then on land, they are more likely to come after you and run you out, rather than retreat... Plus they are BIG..
A beaver killed a man that invaded its territory a couple of years ago somewhere in Europe. The man made some stupid moves and the beaver got a couple of lucky shots.... I have argued over a duck blind with more than one beaver..... Fun times at 5 am in the dark.... 

As far as Nutria go.... Its sense that Patricia wanted to leave the boat.... Nasty testy little bastages.... Not really little... 20 pounds or so.....


Side note... Beaver tail is a delicacy


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, then, if you know of a beaver that killed a man and you're comparing beavers to ground hogs, you should not have any difficulty understanding that they can damage a dog!

And yeah, it is. It's also really fatty from what I've been told. Which about par for the course for 'delicacies'.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

CptJack said:


> Well, then, if you know of a beaver that killed a man and you're comparing beavers to ground hogs, you should not have any difficulty understanding that they can damage a dog!
> 
> And yeah, it is. It's also really fatty from what I've been told. Which about par for the course for 'delicacies'.


It happened three years ago in Belarus... When I thought about it, I looked it up. The guy was trying to do a selfie with the beaver.... The beaver did not want to be in the selfie I supposed... Guy died.... 

Interesting enough I just watched a video of a Boston tearing the heck out of groundhog about the same size as the dog... Does not do much for their street cred...


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

omg Johnny enough, listen to people who know stuff about groundhogs lol


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

sassafras said:


> omg Johnny enough, listen to people who know stuff about groundhogs lol


Who says I am not listening? I never said they cannot bite a dog.... 

I don't see them as a threat.


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## Terriermon (Mar 19, 2016)

It all depends on the dog and its drive, speed and strength. Some dogs are made to hunt and some are not. Groundhogs are slow and once a dog gets a hold and starts ragging it they can't do much but if the dog is hesitant or careless of course it could be injured by a groundhog. Overall though they are not very threatening critters, but again it all depends on the individual dog and the groundhog of course!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Terriermon said:


> It all depends on the dog and its drive, speed and strength. Some dogs are made to hunt and some are not. Groundhogs are slow and once a dog gets a hold and starts ragging it they can't do much but if the dog is hesitant or careless of course it could be injured by a groundhog. Overall though they are not very threatening critters, but again it all depends on the individual dog and the groundhog of course!


The only dog vs groundhog conflicts I have seen were the one time in Kentucky... I have traveled around... Hunted all over... When hunting on farmland, it is not uncommon for the land owner to ask you to shoot any you see...

But watching videos of poodles, min pins, bostons, goldens, etc. making short work of them in a matter of seconds.... Does not show me much as far as them being formidable....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

regardless of opinions on groundhogs......

I noticed something watching videos of dogs vs groundhogs...

If your dog engages with a critter, STOP trying to call and coax your dog out of the situation......

Once the dog is engaged... You have two choices:

1) Jump into the squabble yourself
or 
2) stand by and wait....


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Who says I am not listening? I never said they cannot bite a dog....
> 
> I don't see them as a threat.


If I had a choice between fighting a velociraptor and a groundhog, I'd pick the velociraptor. 




ok maybe not


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

sassafras said:


> If I had a choice between fighting a velociraptor and a groundhog, I'd pick the velociraptor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You already have a velociraptor.... So Mano e mano type of thing?


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## dogsule (Nov 6, 2013)

PatriciafromCO said:


> especially the ones that like to dissect and rip out the squeaker when it's not enough just to kill the squeaker, the ones that must rip the squeaker out of the toy


LOL, that is my Belle, she kills the squeakers and then rips them out of the toy. My husband always thought she wouldn't kill anything but she found a mouse under the snow this winter and made short order of that thing! She loves to chase squirrels and rabbits and I have no doubt she would kill one if she caught one.


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## dogsule (Nov 6, 2013)

My dogs have tangled with a raccoon under our deck twice, one got bit in the ear, the other got a scratch on the nose. They were both very lucky! We get rid of the ***** that come into our yard as my dogs are about the same size as them. 

I have never had a groundhog in the yard but have had muskrats, they are nasty little things. I once encountered one sauntering down the middle of our road. Stupidly I thought I would try to get if off the road so it didn't get hit. Stopped the car walked over to it, it was walking away from me, and I tried to shoo it off the road, the dang thing turned and ran at me! I nearly fell over and scrambled back in the van vowing to run it over if it got in my way. LOL!


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

dogsule said:


> My dogs have tangled with a raccoon under our deck twice, one got bit in the ear, the other got a scratch on the nose. They were both very lucky! We get rid of the ***** that come into our yard as my dogs are about the same size as them.
> 
> I have never had a groundhog in the yard but have had muskrats, they are nasty little things. I once encountered one sauntering down the middle of our road. Stupidly I thought I would try to get if off the road so it didn't get hit. Stopped the car walked over to it, it was walking away from me, and I tried to shoo it off the road, the dang thing turned and ran at me! I nearly fell over and scrambled back in the van vowing to run it over if it got in my way. LOL!


So much for Muskrat Love, eh? LOL 

The same thing happened to a friend of mine with a wild turkey....he wanted to escort it out of the road (cuz it was just standing there), and it came after him and chased him around and back into his car...LOL That's another animal ya don't wanna mess with!


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## dogsule (Nov 6, 2013)

BellaPup said:


> So much for Muskrat Love, eh? LOL
> 
> The same thing happened to a friend of mine with a wild turkey....he wanted to escort it out of the road (cuz it was just standing there), and it came after him and chased him around and back into his car...LOL That's another animal ya don't wanna mess with!


Yep, no muskrat love here. I don't think I would have ever tried to shoo a turkey. When I was really little I got chased by this huge rooster...thought it was going to kill me. LOL!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Someone has to say it...

How much wood would a woodchuck, chuck, if a woodchuck, could chuck, wood?


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