# 9 month old not house trained!



## Camerong (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi everyone,
This is my first post and I look forward to being a part of this community!

We have two dogs, a 3 year old lab mix and a 9 month old golden retriever mix (about 30 lbs). I've potty trained dogs before, including the 3 year old lab, but the golden just isn't getting it.

First, we crate trained her during the day, (she also sleeps there at nights), and I would come home and let her out during the day. When she could go all day, we left her out with the other dog, and she went in the house. So, I started coming home during the day to let her out, and that seemed to work, so I would come home at 12, then 1, then 2, 3, then 3:30, and she would wait to go until I came home. Now, several days in a row, even though my wife gets home at 4, the golden still goes in the house. 

I figure our next step is to crate her all day for awhile, but we absolutely hate that idea, as she will then spend some 17+ hours a day in her crate (and she is not a dog who particularly loves her crate). (Needless to say, my wife and I are both out of the house for work from 7am-4 or 5pm).

Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!


----------



## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

no, your next step should be the vet. You need to eliminate the possibility of a urinary tract infection or other similar physical issue that could easily be causing this first before attempting further training.


----------



## Camerong (Dec 19, 2010)

Thanks for the quick reply. Is that really necessary, though? I'm positive she can go 8-10 hours without eliminating, as she doesn't go in her crate overnight (and sometimes she doesn't ask to go outside right away when I open the crate in the morning).


----------



## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Night time and daytime are 2 different things. I would not be comfortable unless someone could let her out around lunch to potty. I would also worry that the constant holding of a full bladder may lead to a UTI if she does not have one already.


----------



## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Camerong said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. Is that really necessary, though? I'm positive she can go 8-10 hours without eliminating, as she doesn't go in her crate overnight (and sometimes she doesn't ask to go outside right away when I open the crate in the morning).


At nine months she SHOULD be able to go all day without urinating BUT it is unsafe to assume a 9 month old dog can be fully housetrained without restricting freedom in the home (gradually increasing freedom so she learns the whole house is a no go zone) as she likely does not fully understand the difference between inside and outside AND it is very common for young female dogs to have urinary tract infections due to the low squat picking up bacteria. If you are having difficulty getting success then it is very important to ensure there is no physical issue causing the problem. Not only is she "practicing" going in the house (which makes it much harder to fix) but she also may be in some discomfort...causing her to need to pee more frequently. So yes a vet visit should be first on your list to ensure you are setting both of you up for success.

Some questions:
Are you rewarding all pees and poos that happen outside? 
Does she go out on a leash with you or are you simply letting her out?
When you are home at night does she signal she needs to go or does she have accidents then too?
Are there any signs of separation issues (chewing, barking etc) when you are gone during the day?


----------



## Camerong (Dec 19, 2010)

1) Are you rewarding all pees and poos that happen outside? 
-Not ALL. When she goes when we get home, we do. But when we're home, she spends a lot of time outdoors--we have a fenced in yard, and she often asks to go out, and then will stay outside for 10-20 minutes before asking to come in.
2) Does she go out on a leash with you or are you simply letting her out?
-Letting her out into the fenced in yard. She asks to go out by jumping up on the sliding glass door, and to come in the same way.
3) When you are home at night does she signal she needs to go or does she have accidents then too?
-She virtually never has accidents when we are home. But again, its tough because she is constantly outside to play, not just to eliminate.
4) Are there any signs of separation issues (chewing, barking etc) when you are gone during the day?
-I couldn't say about baring, she stays inside during the day (now, its very cold). She chews, but no more than when we are home. She's actually quite calm when we leave, athough very hyper when we get home, but so is our other dog (that's another issue we need to work on).

We'll schedule a vet visit. We figured it wasn't a UTI because, even when she went during the day, it was always a LOT of urine, only once, and it was always late in the day (a number of times it was still warm when we got to it). But I suppose it would be pretty dumb to spend tons of effort leaving work every day and such if she merely has a UTI!

What do we do if she doesn't have a UTI? In other words, what do we do in the few days until we can get her in for a vet visit? Should we crate her and leave her all day to see if she goes? Thanks again for all of your thoughts, my wife and I really appreciate it!


----------



## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

It sounds like the area where you have a gap (assuming it is a training issue) is not going out with her every time when she asks and rewarding her for pee-ing outside (and pooping too). 

Here is the formula I use (I have a fenced area, not a fenced yard attached to the house.. so I cannot just Let 'em out.. I have to be with them or watch them when they are out). I do the schedule you are using but every time the dog goes out, I go out with her. Every time. Is it a PIA? Sometimes.. I still do it. When they are young I have them on leash. When the dog pees or poops outside I say the words. One dog pee's on "Piddly pee" and the other on just "pee." They also poop on command.. one does on "Crap crap" and the other on "Poop Poop." (Hey.. it is better than slang like S**t!!! LOL). I reward for going outside and I make sure the dog does go outside to do their business. 

When I am not home or cannot supervise the dog(s) (I have 2) they are confined or crated. When they are out in the house loose I am THERE with them. I also have two outside 10X10 kennel runs and a outside fenced area that I can put them out in.. but I usually have them pee or poop b4 going in those!! 

Now.. because I manage this ( I really am offended by pets pooping or peeing in my house) I can tell you that my 6 month old dog has made NO mistakes in the house (had her from 7.5 weeks on) and the older dog (who is 4 years now) had 2 mistakes in the house, both pee and by the door, in her life (and both times I was not watching her and she was 6 months old and I had not owned her very long). 

To this day I reward, on occaision, pooping and peeing outside (the older dog) and will continue with the younger dog. BOTH dogs indicate when they need to go out (unless I beat them to the punch line so to speak). To this day I also do not let either dog alone in the house to just wander around (they are crated or, in nice weather, in outside 10X10 dog runs when I go out or go to work). When I can I bring them with me (most of the time I go anywhere NOT work I bring them). 

IMO it is worth the effort to do all of this. I don't have dog pee or poop to clean up inmy home!


----------



## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Yes, your biggest gap in the training, as Elana says, is not taking dog out with YOU and rewarding her doing her business. Outside to her means i get to to go outside, not I have to GO outside. See the difference? Relieving themselves (anywhere and anytime) is inherently rewarding (hence the word "relief") and it's really important to help her along to realize that going OUTSIDE to relieve herself is MORE rewarding than inside. Freedom to sniff and play and roll in the dirt/mud/grass/snow is to be done AFTER business is taken care of. This is a very common mistake. It's really just a case of the dog not having clarity on WHY she is let outside.

This training also makes a huge difference in the long run when you are dealing with bad weather, or you are in a hurry and want the business to be done quickly, on cue.We humans expect a whole lot of our dogs that is not normal behaviour for them, and this is one of the things that we put on our dogs. To dogs it's just don't pee where they sleep or eat...everywhere else if fair game. This is why confinement and them earning their freedom in the house as they get more proficient at the "outside is for pee" is so important.


----------



## Camerong (Dec 19, 2010)

That all makes sense, but how do I do that? When we get home, walk out with the dogs and tell them to "go potty," and then praise them (and give treats) when they do. But what else? What about 20 minutes later, when the dogs ask to go out again? Then I can let them out without trying to elicit any potties?

And I still have my immediate question--tomorrow morning, do I crate her or leave her out? It seems like leaving her out will likely cause her to go in the house, thus reinforcing the behavior, as you observed. But I feel terrible crating her all day while we're at work and then again at night.

Thanks again.


----------



## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

This may allow you to answer your own question. A dog who goes to the bathroom in the house is IMMEDIATELY rewarded by 'relief' for going in the house. If crating = holding it.. then youhave your answer. Still get the vet involved. Having HAD a UTI I can tell you it is painful and holding it is just plain torture! 

Yes. EVERY time go out with the dog. If they ask to go out and do NOT potty, bring them in and crate them and 30 minutes later take them out again and praise, reward for pottying and then LEAVE them out for the exercise they are used to. 

Like I said.. it is a PIA for awhile but what do you want.. a temporary PIA or a house broken dog???  

Also, do what I said. When they PEE say that word and pretty soon they will PEE on command. Of you can say something like "Busy" but get it on a command. I train dogs for other peoople and I can get a perfect Drop on Recall from my dog and they are interested. When I tell my dog to "Go PEE!" and she does they are amazed and look at me like I am some deity... (and it is not hard to get a dog to pee on cue). It is so handy to be able to tell a dog "PEE!" and have them do it.. like if you are going out for a few hours and want to leave the dogs in. Tell 'em to pee first and with that out of the way you can go out for a few hours. 

Use that crate for your unhousebroken Golden for awhile.. this is going to take weeks.. months really.. of work to be sure the dog is house broken. If you let it go too soon, she won't be.


----------



## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree that the golden needs to be crated. I know how you feel about not wanting them confined that long, but do what my trainer suggested--make the time that she is out as interactive and stimulating as you can (walks, games of fetch, hide and seek--whatever will get her mind and body moving).

Our puppy is out at night and crated during the day (she is alomost 11 months old.) We went with out at night first because we are home and if she needs to go out, she cal let us know. She is confined to our bedroom at night, though--no free run of the house for her. She is crated during the day due to seperation issues, but we also don't want to come home to pee in our home (or destruction). Find ways to make her crate a happy place (goodies, toys, etc.) that will keep her occupied.

And have the vet check her out. We just found out our pup has crystals in her urine that cause her to think she has to go a million times a day, so some sort of irritation/infection could have something to do with this.

Good luck!


----------

