# Something I've noticed about rescues...



## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

Before I rescued Tom, I had always purebreds from breeders (a Boxer and a Lab) when I was growing up. 

Molly and Cocoa were both wonderful dogs, but with Tom, I can't help but feel like he KNOWS that I rescued him. Sometimes when he sits at my feet or nudges my hand with his nose to be pet, I just feel like he's saying "Thank you, mom. I love you."

And then when I brought Bandit home last month, I got the same vibe from him.

I know that they probably don't fully comprehend everything, but the bond I share with these two is much stronger than any other dog I've ever had.

Am I crazy?


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I think your anthromorhpizing, I could say the same thing about my dogs except I KNOW I didn't rescue them so their behavior is interpreted differently in my mind than the same behavior is interpreted in your mind.
I have been around a lot of rescue dogs and non of them have acted "Thankful" towards their owners tho I have seen the owners interperate their behavior in that way because thats what is on their mind.
You may feel a deeper relationship with these dogs compaired to your other dogs because you know you saved them, but the dogs don't know they were saved, all they know is I moved to a new place with new smells, new things to see, and new rules.


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## CerbiesMom (Jan 30, 2008)

I think it depends on what situation they were in before. Max, my boy that only lived outside and was abused, I think is very thankful. We've had him 2 years now, and he still does the happy dachshund dance to his bed every single time we come in from the back yard. And he nudges me after every meal/and when I give him a chewy or a new toy. CerbieI don't think remembers, but I do know he likes it here.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

I don't know if rescue dogs truly are "thankful" for being rescued. Not even sure they know they were rescued. I think the "appreciation" you feel is partially anthropomorphizing, but mostly just the dog's personality. Perhaps the boxer and lab you owned before were just more independent, whereas your rescue dog (looks like maybe a herding mix or Golden retriever mix?) is more of a "velcro" dog. Basil is very clingy, and he was a rescue, but he's also a Papillon, which is a breed known for being loyal and affectionate towards their owners.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

With my rescue, we had to work patiently to help him learn to trust and not be fearful of everything. That work built an amazingly strong bond between us, and for us humans, it is beyond gratifying knowing that we are helping him to be the best dog he can be. I really do think it is a different process than someone goes through who gets a puppy from a breeder. Who's to say it is just the humans anthropomorphizing? Until we can read a dog's mind, we will never know for sure.


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

I think it's just anthropomorphizing myself. Dogs memories just aren't that long.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

hulkamaniac said:


> I think it's just anthropomorphizing myself. Dogs memories just aren't that long.


I disagree that dogs memories aren't that long. The dog our family owned when I was a kid recognized an old family friend after four or five years. Basil hasn't even been alive that long, much less lived with ME that long. I'm pretty sure he remembers his past.

I think, though, that the difference is that dogs don't dwell on things that happened in the past. No dog feels sorry for himself for spending time in a shelter. The dog doesn't think "I was living in a terrible situation, but you saved me! Thank you!" Dogs live for the moment, and I think that's quite admirable actually. I wish I could get over things that easily!

Honestly, though, I'm sure many dogs appreciate that they're living with you NOW (Aside from make stubborn hounds like the ones Hulk lives with, lol!) but I sincerely doubt they appreciate their new life any more because of the idea that they were rescued from a worse situation.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

well unlike the rest of these naysayers  i believe they know when their life has made a major change and it shows in their face I also feel that they have a general understanding you are the reason their has made that change and they show that by giving affection and being particularly loyal . Not to say a normal bought dog dosen't feel a close and loyal bond just I feel the bond is slightly different a bit...proceeded with caution if you will. I think with shelter dogs or rescue dogs they have learned that things "don't last" and so they don't really get comfortable with their surroundings and may even suffocate their personality because of it. The long they stay they more they open up and start feeling comftorable that their home is secure and it enables them to show you their true loving personaity without concern of his surroundings changing if he lets his guard down. You could say I read to much into it but when I see the difference in the face its just the conclusion I come to
First Day









Two weeks later









I can see in her face and feel in her body language and personality that she trusts me and has put all concerns to the wind. It is just my job now to keep that smile on her face


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

I like to think that there is a little bit of appreciation in my little babies, but it could all be in my head.

Amavana, I just can't get over how much your little girl looks like my Bandit! You said that you thought she was part boxer?


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

nods vet said she is 90% sure she is at least partly boxer and votes that she is prolly lab or mixed retriever with it. The boxer is sooo obvious because of her personality...check out some of my vids on you tube on MyLelaBaby

http://www.youtube.com/user/MyLelaBaby?feature=mhum

I bet you she could be your dog's sis they match in looks in personality so much lol.


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

Oh my gosh! I'm convinced now. Bandit uses his paws all the time. Very food-motivated and eager to please. He also has a little white patch on his chest like Lela.

She is absolutely prescious! I love her socks!


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

Nargle said:


> I disagree that dogs memories aren't that long. The dog our family owned when I was a kid recognized an old family friend after four or five years. Basil hasn't even been alive that long, much less lived with ME that long. I'm pretty sure he remembers his past.
> 
> I think, though, that the difference is that dogs don't dwell on things that happened in the past. No dog feels sorry for himself for spending time in a shelter. The dog doesn't think "I was living in a terrible situation, but you saved me! Thank you!" Dogs live for the moment, and I think that's quite admirable actually. I wish I could get over things that easily!
> 
> Honestly, though, I'm sure many dogs appreciate that they're living with you NOW (Aside from make stubborn hounds like the ones Hulk lives with, lol!) but I sincerely doubt they appreciate their new life any more because of the idea that they were rescued from a worse situation.


I nearly smacked my hound last night when she woke up and decided she wanted to sleep in the OTHER crate. Apparently hers was no longer good enough for little Miss Priss so she decided to whine about it at 4 am. Dumb dog.

Anyway, I hate to go back to science again, but I seem to remember that dogs have an episodic memory that lasts about 15-20 mins. I may be wrong about that though.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

hulkamaniac said:


> I nearly smacked my hound last night when she woke up and decided she wanted to sleep in the OTHER crate. Apparently hers was no longer good enough for little Miss Priss so she decided to whine about it at 4 am. Dumb dog.
> 
> Anyway, I hate to go back to science again, but I seem to remember that dogs have an episodic memory that lasts about 15-20 mins. I may be wrong about that though.


I believe that has to do with connecting behavior to a punishment, they can't make that connection after a period of time after the behavior. I do believe that dogs remember lots of things. Cherokee won't stand near a corner of the table where something fell down last year. He still remembers that something scary could happen if he stands there. I have a million examples of things that he remembers from day to day.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't know that "appreciation for being rescued" is really the best way to phrase it because dogs don't know the full implications of that. I think they can recognize that "before sucked, and this is much better," and the process of rehabilitating a dog can build a very strong bond, but I think that sort of thing depends on the DOG, not the situation.

About dog memory, of course it's pretty good. How else could any dog get trained ever? What about one instance learning?


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

MegaMuttMom said:


> I believe that has to do with connecting behavior to a punishment, they can't make that connection after a period of time after the behavior. I do believe that dogs remember lots of things. Cherokee won't stand near a corner of the table where something fell down last year. He still remembers that something scary could happen if he stands there. I have a million examples of things that he remembers from day to day.


This^^ Uallis is afraid of the baby gate and won't even touch it because he remembers that it one time fell on him when he was a puppy. Eddie had ONE bad experience with a UPS man and now hates them...to the point he can be aggressive to them. Before the experience he was fine with them, now he's scared. He remembers. Like, MMM said, there are a gazillion things that happens in the course of a day to show that they have some form of longterm memory.



RaeganW said:


> I don't know that "appreciation for being rescued" is really the best way to phrase it because dogs don't know the full implications of that. I think they can recognize that "before sucked, and this is much better," and the process of rehabilitating a dog can build a very strong bond, but I think that sort of thing depends on the DOG, not the situation.
> 
> About dog memory, of course it's pretty good. How else could any dog get trained ever? What about one instance learning?


I agree with this too. Eddie was a stray. I seriously doubt that he has appreciation for me taking him in or is thankful for me. We have a close bond, but like you said, I think that has to do with bond building through training. Also, coupled with the fact that I feed him, give him attention and affection and in general, take care of him.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

All dogs are loving. All dogs have different personalities, as well. I don't believe rescue dogs consider their people any more 'special' than any other dog. Icesis goes into happy hysterics whenever we come back after leaving her for a while, way more than Nea does. But neither are rescues, it's just their personality types.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I do think that thinking rescues are more grateful than bought dogs is anthropomorphizing. With the one instance learning cases, for those dogs, it was a really traumatic experience for them. Something worth remembering so they don't need to experience it again. I think that part of their long term memory is there for survival reasons.

For things like Lela's pictures, honestly, I think she looks "sad" because she was stressed out in a new environment. A couple days later she's "happy" because she's relaxing in her new home and getting used to things. I don't think it's a matter of being grateful so much as adjusting to a new place.

I do believe as Raegan does. That dogs know "This sucks" and "this is better". But I don't believe they recognize anything beyond that.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

I think she was "sad" cause she was dumped on the side of the road when her owner was arrested and she never saw him again. I think she was confused and scared and I think after enough time understand she had found a place that she could be comfortable. I also think all dogs show their apprication by showing affection and being loyal. But this is just one of those topics that will drag on about the "science" of it . Debating back and forth on it to me is kinda silly cause I think there is nothing wrong with some appricating their dog and feeling the dog feels the same way. In fact I don't know why you wouldn't want to feel that way with your dog. So many people have a mind set of no its a dog and dosent get it and yet I think they " get" more then people do half the time. They are smart and amazing creatures with the ability to understand many commands , jobs, and routines. I don't see why "appreciating " would be that hard for a dog to grasp. 

appreciate : to be grateful or thankful for;* to view as valuable*; to be fully conscious of; be aware of; detect; to increase in value

I think its safe to say that a dog views their owner as something of value to them. We feed love and protect them there for they "appreciate" that they need us on some level for their contentment.

I also find that after i play , train, or feed my dog, she always loves on me giving me kisses and affection. I think this is showing her "thanks" for what I had done. A dog can't just say thank you so show it with their affection

I also said I that a bought dog didn't make a dog more or less loyal or affectionate just that in my PERSONAL experiences, the relationship I have with lela is just different. She is closer to me then any other dog I have and I feel that is mostly due to her experiences of getting "left behind"

And as far memory goes..i took lela to the store with me in a car ride from where I found her. And she panicked, she would not get out of the car ( there was a baseball park across the road I was going to bring her to ) and she just whined. I didn't think much of it until now but i think its possiable she remembers that as the last place she was taken out of a car and then left. Could it be untrue, yes, could it be true, also yes.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Xeph said:


> I do think that thinking rescues are more grateful than bought dogs is anthropomorphizing. With the one instance learning cases, for those dogs, it was a really traumatic experience for them. Something worth remembering so they don't need to experience it again. I think that part of their long term memory is there for survival reasons.
> 
> For things like Lela's pictures, honestly, I think she looks "sad" because she was stressed out in a new environment. A couple days later she's "happy" because she's relaxing in her new home and getting used to things. I don't think it's a matter of being grateful so much as adjusting to a new place.
> 
> I do believe as Raegan does. That dogs know "This sucks" and "this is better". But I don't believe they recognize anything beyond that.


Bingo. If they knew beyond "Old bad, new good." and somehow had an epiphany that they were rescued, it would not take more than a warm house and a treat for the dog to realize they were in good hands. 

If we were going to go this far, we could then claim Jonas does NOT appreciate being rescued because he pisses on my socks. Pretty far and illogical jump.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Scientifically speaking, you are now more rewarding than previous times/people/places and rewarding lives are then anticipated and wonderful, making for a happy dog. You have become a conditioned reinforcer. This is a wonderful thing, as it allows the dog to blossom, learn and enjoy his life. If you choose to believe it's because he's grateful, that is absolutely not wrong but it may be a mirroring of how YOU feel about HIM rescuing YOU. 

Any dog that is loved and trained and cared for properly will develop a bond with it's hooman, regardless of where it came from.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

amavanna said:


> I also find that after i play , train, or feed my dog, she always loves on me giving me kisses and affection. I think this is showing her "thanks" for what I had done. A dog can't just say thank you so show it with their affection


So what does it mean when a dog that has always been valued shows affection? Why can't it just be affection? Dogs don't have agendas. How a dog is feeling, he shows you, and that's everything he feels. 

I think this topic raises a lot of feeling because a lot of times it comes across as rescue people telling breeder people "your dog doesn't love you as much as my dog loves me." And that, to borrow a phrase, is bull pucky.

Amavanna, I think you would get a lot out of reading Patricia McConnell's "For the Love of a Dog," and "The Other End of the Leash." I think it would help you see how understanding dogs doesn't diminish feelings for them. If anything it makes those feelings stronger because you have a greater understanding of an entirely different species. It's appreciating dogs as DOGS, not as reflections of humans.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

> If you choose to believe it's because he's grateful, that is absolutely not wrong but it may be a mirroring of how YOU feel about HIM rescuing YOU.


I like this statement



> If anything it makes those feelings stronger because you have a greater understanding of an entirely different species. It's appreciating dogs as DOGS, not as reflections of humans.


I am not the type of person that trys to "humanize" a dog I am aware dogs are dogs. I do however feel sometimes people don't give credit to what a dog is able to understand. 

I will look into the books tho im all for a good read.



> think this topic raises a lot of feeling because a lot of times it comes across as rescue people telling breeder people "your dog doesn't love you as much as my dog loves me." And that, to borrow a phrase, is bull pucky.


I also feel I made it clear I didn't feel that way just in my personal experiences I was closer to my rescue then previous dogs who were not rescue. It dosen't mean I didn't have amazingly loving and loyal dogs one of them even came to my aid in a very potential bad situation. I just see a different kind of admiration in her eyes when she looks at me then my other dogs had.



> So what does it mean when a dog that has always been valued shows affection? Why can't it just be affection? Dogs don't have agendas. How a dog is feeling, he shows you, and that's everything he feels.


More to the point take away the fact the dog is a shelter dog or bought or whatever, i still think its affection that is shown as a way to say I like this and want you to know I like this so that maybe i get it again which to me translates as thanks for dinner


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> So what does it mean when a dog that has always been valued shows affection? Why can't it just be affection? Dogs don't have agendas. How a dog is feeling, he shows you, and that's everything he feels.
> 
> I think this topic raises a lot of feeling because a lot of times it comes across as rescue people telling breeder people "your dog doesn't love you as much as my dog loves me." And that, to borrow a phrase, is bull pucky.


I think that the playing, training, and feeding (assuming training is done in a somewhat positive manner) releases some of those "feel good" chemicals in the brain, leading to that affection. (I know I ALWAYS, _ALWAYS_ feel better after I've been busy vs. having a day of being in comotose state.)
Tag is my only "rescue" dog, and he's probably the most affectionate dog I have. But he was raised operantly and was (and still is) encouraged to act nutty because it makes me laugh. I don't think Tag is "grateful" because I rescued him, when I went to see him in his foster home he seemed pretty darned content with life as it was. He was already rescued. I had nothing to do with the actual "rescue" part. He likes me so well because I spend time with him, and we've formed a bond.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

hulkamaniac said:


> Anyway, I hate to go back to science again, but I seem to remember that dogs have an episodic memory that lasts about 15-20 mins. I may be wrong about that though.


not...exaaactly. 

it's more like their brain takes rapid fire snapshots and then flips through snapshots and recognizes similarity. they learn to recognize things and places and words. they also pay attention to things we dont and cant. they dont have good short term memory as a result of the sort of snapshot effect..but cumulative snapshots produce decent long term memory..except they are bizarrely detail oriented about it in ways we still dont have a grasp on. 

depends on what happened before..if the life they led before you was extremely repititious in some extreme fashion(spent every day tied to a chain, got hit everyday to wow we did all my favorite things every single day..both extremes are applicable) fashion, they likely remember that much. how much more than that? 

dont ask me...lol (i think the big question here is not IF they recognize the contrast..but HOW?)


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Fun fact about bonding!

When anyone, dog lover or not, pets a dog, their brain releases oxytocin, the "love drug" (the same chemical that post-labor mothers release to bond with their babies).
When a dog lover pets a stuffed dog, they also experience a release of oxytocin while a non-dog lover does not.

Also: Exercise releases endorphins. Endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't kill their husbands!


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

amavanna said:


> I think she was "sad" cause she was dumped on the side of the road when her owner was arrested and she never saw him again. I think she was confused and scared and I think after enough time understand she had found a place that she could be comfortable. I also think all dogs show their apprication by showing affection and being loyal. But this is just one of those topics that will drag on about the "science" of it . Debating back and forth on it to me is kinda silly cause I think there is nothing wrong with some appricating their dog and feeling the dog feels the same way. In fact I don't know why you wouldn't want to feel that way with your dog. So many people have a mind set of no its a dog and dosent get it and yet I think they " get" more then people do half the time. They are smart and amazing creatures with the ability to understand many commands , jobs, and routines. I don't see why "appreciating " would be that hard for a dog to grasp.
> 
> appreciate : to be grateful or thankful for;* to view as valuable*; to be fully conscious of; be aware of; detect; to increase in value
> 
> ...


I think there's a big difference between "appreciating a warm loving home," and "understanding and appreciating the act of being rescued." A dog does not need to understand that you're a hero and you saved their life to appreciate living with you and find it valuable. However, understanding that you're the reason they're in a better place now requires a great deal of abstract thought that I'm not sure that dogs are capable of. Heck, if a dog won't make the connection between making a mess on the carpet and getting in trouble an hour later, how can they make the connection that you're the reason their beds are warm, their food bowls are full, and their lives are good?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

RaeganW said:


> Fun fact about bonding!
> 
> When anyone, dog lover or not, pets a dog, their brain releases oxytocin, the "love drug" (the same chemical that post-labor mothers release to bond with their babies).
> When a dog lover pets a stuffed dog, they also experience a release of oxytocin while a non-dog lover does not.
> ...


yup lol. that's why there's a strong tendancy to treat them like babies...they make us feel the chemical reaction we have when we first meet our own babies...(fathers have an oxytocin experience oftentimes too when they first see their newborns)


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

RaeganW said:


> Endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't kill their husbands!


Raegan FTW!! LOL!!!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I also appreciated that reference !


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

> Heck, if a dog won't make the connection between making a mess on the carpet and getting in trouble an hour later, how can they make the connection that you're the reason their beds are warm, their food bowls are full, and their lives are good


I guess cause she knows who to come to when she is hungry needs to go outside and washes her blanket 

cute story- I washed her "bed" its just a huge comforter and she sat by the washer and dryer the whole time until it was done then responded by urging me to lay with her on it when we it was folded nice and warm for her. For an animal that can't connect a to b ( yet are capable of some of the toughest jobs and have proven to do things never taught to do that have saved countless of lives) she understand that I was doing something to her bed and waited to see what it was once she found out i made it smell funny but made it really warm she took upon herself to want to "share" it with me. ( she rolls on her back and licks my feet until i get on the floor with her) I think it shows a lvl of " hey check out what you did to this bed its all warm for some reason" Now every time I do laundry she goes back and forth between her bed and the machine and looks at me like "what gives where is my warmth" lol


I am just saying that dogs connect and show their own version of "thankfulness" in some pretty cute and funny ways I guess I am just not the type of person that sees everything as science and just likes to look at it at face value and from my stand point she shows me in a lot of ways she likes it here and likes our family with her.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I guess cause she knows who to come to when she is hungry needs to go outside and washes her blanket


To be fair, while Strauss is definitely mine, and Mirada is definitely Jon's....my dogs go to whoever has the food bowls, regardless of who it is.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

the point i was making was she connects her needs with you and shows she understands that accordingly by doing what you ask of her which for most people is sit or stay or what have you before you feed them. She is eager to do this for you because she knows it makes you happy and bennifits her with a full belly. She also shows her "thankfulness" ( i use this word for lack of a better one) by also showing affection afterward, at least with my dog.

more to the point I think a dog that DOSENT connect their needs being met with their owner..the owner isn't really filling those needs. If a dog is depending on himself to get food or never gets "taken" on walks or played with then of coarse the dog isn't connect those things to you and isn't going to have much interest in showing that particular type of "thanks" affection. The dog will still love you just as much but I don't think it really feels dependent on their owner and therefore might not be as willing to comply with your wishes and demands for affection especially if you don't really show it yourself.


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm sorry everyone. I didn't meant to start such a heated debate. I know that all dogs (when treated correctly) love their masters. I wasn't trying to say that my rescues love me more than anyone else's dogs.

I was just wondering if Tom and Bandit have any understanding (on any level).


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

all threads that involve a dog possiably having "emotions" or any other kind of humanistic trait people will argue it with science and debates. Bottom line is if you feel a connection with your dog because of it then don't let these comments make you feel any different. The point is you bond with your dog and part of bonding is how you respond to it. If feeling the dog appreciates you , as I do, helps you bond then continue feeling that way ( I sure will ^_^ )


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TomTheDog said:


> I'm sorry everyone. I didn't meant to start such a heated debate. I know that all dogs (when treated correctly) love their masters. I wasn't trying to say that my rescues love me more than anyone else's dogs.
> 
> I was just wondering if Tom and Bandit have any understanding (on any level).


some. like i said...their memory..you might describe it as conditional from what we can tell. 

dogs are unlike any other animal in relation to humans. not even a chimpanzee will track human eye movement...but dogs will..and they mostly DONT track the gaze of their own kind in comparison to how much they do us. this is at least partially inherant and this and some of the other current research suggests some things that really arent intuitive to humans...


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

All I know for sure is that my dog certainly did rescue me. I had no idea how much I needed him. And, given his questionable history and lack of socialization, I had to learn a lot about the way dogs communicate and work real hard which, I think, has made our connection deeper than an average dog owner that isn't trying to fix a somewhat broken dog.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> She is eager to do this for you because she knows it makes you happy and bennifits her with a full belly.


She'll do this with anybody that has the bowl. It's a conditioned response. Same for Strauss. She's eager to do it not for my benefit. She's eager to do it because she's been so conditioned to it. The faster she sits, the faster she gets her meal. My happiness doesn't even enter into it, lol.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

MegaMuttMom said:


> All I know for sure is that my dog certainly did rescue me. I had no idea how much I needed him. And, given his questionable history and lack of socialization, I had to learn a lot about the way dogs communicate and work real hard which, I think, has made our connection deeper than an average dog owner that isn't trying to fix a somewhat broken dog.


Absolutely! But I see that as a function of time and effort, not just "saving." Like, someone can adopt a dog with issues and be a perfectly adequate owner, but not put in that extra effort of "fixing" the dog's issues. They'll still have a relationship with their dog, but it's not as deep as someone who has really invested in their dog, KWIM?


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

> She'll do this with anybody that has the bowl. It's a conditioned response. Same for Strauss. She's eager to do it not for my benefit. She's eager to do it because she's been so conditioned to it. The faster she sits, the faster she gets her meal. My happiness doesn't even enter into it, lol.


for whatever reason you don't want to feel the other way is fine but you dont have to shatter how i feel how about that. I want to feel the way i do cause it helps me bond and i feel that way regardless of what anyone says so lets just stick with it makes me happy so it dosen't compel people to give me their reasons for me being wrong


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You seem to have a real issue with people disagreenig with anything you say. Feel how you want. I'm just being honest with what I see in dogs. It's general conditioned behavior.

Strauss knows how to "salute the troops" but it doesn't mean he can appreciate what they do for our country.

It seems that the couple of us that don't view dogs as ultimately appreciative/grateful seem to be more into dog behavior in general though.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

no disagreeing is fine but its like people keep harping on the disagreeance when its kinda unneccessary i already stated several times its how i feel and wont change and it just always a back and forth back and forth what was it tautology lol i keep saying yes you keep saying no and it goes back and forth and i wonder why it can't stray from a point of black and white to exploring the gray . The gray being that maybe your dog understands more then you give him credit for. If you dont fine but I do and that is fine too maybe i think i expected with dog forums to be less ...strict on facts rules of science and black and white thinking. the whole reason i got a dog was for the emotional connection


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Admittedly, I do not get dogs for an emotional connection. I get them for sports and for work, both of which require a bond. I'm bonded more closely to some dogs than others. But my studies of dogs in the last few years have removed me more from the emotional equation in what I feel is a GOOD way. I can work with my dogs better because I don't feel the need to dote on them.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak said:


> I think your anthromorhpizing, I could say the same thing about my dogs except I KNOW I didn't rescue them so their behavior is interpreted differently in my mind than the same behavior is interpreted in your mind.
> I have been around a lot of rescue dogs and non of them have acted "Thankful" towards their owners tho I have seen the owners interperate their behavior in that way because thats what is on their mind.
> You may feel a deeper relationship with these dogs compaired to your other dogs because you know you saved them, but the dogs don't know they were saved, all they know is I moved to a new place with new smells, new things to see, and new rules.


This!

I've lived with rescue dogs my whole life (around 10 dogs). Porter is the first dog I have ever got from a breeder. I have a MUCH greater bond with him than I have a had with any other dog. All our other dogs were happy to be with us, but I feel Porter needs us to be with him. He's the only dog I have ever met that would rather be with his owners than anywhere else. He might run off to play with someone, but as soon as he can't see us he drops everything and tries to find us. All the rescues that I have had could careless if I was around or not as long as they were doing what they wanted to. 

I just know he is more bonded with me than any other dog.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

amavanna said:


> *No,* disagreeing is fine*,* but it*'*s like people keep harping on the *disagreement* when it*'*s kinda unneccessary*.* *I* already stated several times it*'*s how *I* feel and *it* won*'*t change*.* [strikethrough]and[/strikethrough] *It's* just always a back and forth*,* back and forth *(*what was it tautology lol*)* *I* keep saying *"*yes*,"* you keep saying *"*no*"* and it goes back and forth*.* [strikethrough]and[/strikethrough]
> 
> *I* wonder why it can't stray from a point of black and white to exploring the gray. The gray being that maybe your dog understands more then you give him credit for. If you don*'*t fine*,* but I do and that is fine too*.* *M*aybe *I* think *I* expected with dog forums to be less ...strict on facts*,* rules of science*,* and black and white thinking. *T*he whole reason *I* got a dog was for the emotional connection*.*


There, I fixed it for you.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Admittedly, I do not get dogs for an emotional connection. I get them for sports and for work, both of which require a bond. I'm bonded more closely to some dogs than others. But my studies of dogs in the last few years have removed me more from the emotional equation in what I feel is a GOOD way. I can work with my dogs better because I don't feel the need to dote on them.


I don't dote on my dog at all. I read all kinds of stuff here on DF that I can't believe in terms of what people buy and feed and do for their dogs. I don't think doting has anything to do with an emotional connection. My emotional connection with my dog comes from watching him blossom from a sacred trembling mess of a dog that was afraid of every new encounter, to a confident, thriving dog. That came through training, not doting. His trust and faith in us as providers and protectors is palpable. Yes, he will go to anyone who has a treat but, he does not look to them for guidance the way he does us.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

I have always viewed dogs as a friend like the old saying goes. In my case its very true that Lela over time will become my best friend. I am a wife and mom and spend most of my time with my family . I don't go out on the town with friends and the time spent with our friends is limited because none of our friends have kids. I have always loved dogs for their amazing qualities of compassion and intelligence. Stories of heroic dogs saving their owners female animals nursing orphans and taking them in on their own. Ignoring disabilities and differences and physical appearance and though lacking the ability to talk still somehow tell you everyday how important you are to them in their life. For a dog they take in their surroundings and adjust to them accordingly. That can lead to good or bad behavior or personalities. I just find that with my experiences forming a bond that is "real" and close and personal without limitations as far as what the dog can and will understand emotionally or mentally. I respect the animal for what it is and it has proven over many decades to keep getting smarter. I don't under estimate their ability recognize that when I am happy things happen that make him happy. Most relationships are built on give and take and that I feel its the same with dogs.



> There, I fixed it for you.


good i could use a professional spell check and grammar corrector mine sucks and i dont have the time  glad you found the time



> Yes, he will go to anyone who has a treat but, he does not look to them for guidance the way he does us.


I really couldn't have said it better myself that is exactly how i feel. ^_^


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I don't dote on my dog at all.


I never said you did (and you make several good points in your post). But before all the studying I did, I did things much differently than I do now.



> good i could use a professional spell check and grammar corrector mine sucks and i dont have the time  glad you found the time


I don't mean to be rude, but you should take the time. Your posts are kinda hard to read.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

easy enough for most people not to have make a comment over. I use the forum spell check often and i dont feel a few uncapitlized I's and a few miss quations make my post that much harder to understand what I am saying. But just for you guys I will do my best k


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

I like to think Ilya feels greatful for being rescued . He was highly stressed, depressed, and very unaffectionate when I first adopted him. I think his previous owners were very structured and invested a lot of time training him. He just seemed to need to be underfoot and given permission for everything he does.

Anyway, I think the truth is Ilya rescued me. He makes me think about how I have this moment right now to have fun. Stop worrying about the future and the past. He can be clumbsy, scared, and confused.... but he doesn't let it stop him from finding the opportunity to have fun and he enjoys making me laugh. I've never met another dog who enjoys wearing a sheep head costume or an e-cone just for attention.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

> I've never met another dog how enjoys wearing a sheep head costume or an e-cone just for attention.


This kind of thing is awesome to me. I love watching how a dog responds to laughter. There is this video where a dog tickles a baby with it's nose and the baby laughs and laughs and so the dog will stop and when the baby stops laughing he does it again. It is adorable to watch.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Honestly, I don't see why everyone here can't be right. Operant learning is how dogs learn things, how they connect A=B but that does not preclude emotional status at all. 
I believe that dogs have emotions. Most dog people would agree. The thing is, these emotions they have are SIMPLE emotions...the base emotions because they don't have the intellectual thought processes that humans do (the ones that complicate everything...like the general mien of the this thread). 
Imagine dog thinking: I like you, you are the giver of all things good, the door opener, the dog food can opener, the belly rubber, the letting me off leash at the park-er, the one who protects me from the scary things, the one I look to for all these things....therefore you are awesome. End of story.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I really don't think dogs can reason to the point of understanding rescuing or being 'grateful' honestly. I think it's a nice thing to think but I just don't think their brain is capable of reasoning that far.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> I really don't think dogs can reason to the point of understanding rescuing or being 'grateful' honestly. I think it's a nice thing to think but *I just don't think their brain is capable of reasoning that far*.


Mia would be my first guess if some could...


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Cracker said:


> I believe that dogs have emotions. Most dog people would agree. The thing is, these emotions they have are SIMPLE emotions...the base emotions because they don't have the intellectual thought processes that humans do (the ones that complicate everything...like the general mien of the this thread).
> Imagine dog thinking: I like you, you are the giver of all things good, the door opener, the dog food can opener, the belly rubber, the letting me off leash at the park-er, the one who protects me from the scary things, the one I look to for all these things....therefore you are awesome. End of story.


_*claps*_ That's exactly what I think. 

I think what is more important than the issue of appreciation is US being appreciative of them. Eddie is my rescue dog (well, a dumped puppy that I took in (now 4 years old), does that count? lol). I don't think that he feels appreciation or is thankful for me finding him. I don't think that he thinks that way. I've provided him the means to help him turn into a somewhat decently behaved dog. I let him run and play, provide him a warm place to sleep and a belly full of food. I give him interaction and affection. Because I give him these things, he thinks that I'm the best thing ever. That's fine with me and I _like_ the simplicity of that. I get my "reward" for taking him in by _watching_ him run, play, that he's not worried where his next meal is going to come from and I'm glad that he just gets to be a dog and live his dog life. There is reward in knowing that I had a part in that, in being directly responsible for changing the quality of life of another living being. I've watched him turn into an amazing, one of a kind dog, that I'm _thankful_ that I got to help. I'm _thankful_ to HIM because my decision to take a troubled dog into my home taught me a lot of important life lessons that as a result I've grown into a better person because of. But he's oblivious to all that. All he knows is that I'm the one who throws the tennis ball and plays "soccer" with him. I'm the best thing since sliced bread and that's enough for me. I don't need his appreciation. _*shrug*_

Sure, I have his loyalty and his affection. I'm a member of his "family", I'm his "human". I don't know how much further it goes than that with him though. It's what I love about dogs so much; their simplicity and innocence. 

On the other hand, to those that DO think their dog is appreciative and thankful, I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with feeling that way, even if I don't agree with whether dogs can feel appreciation. What does it harm? Nothing. If you feel it helps the bond or whatever...then go with it.  You like your dog and your dog likes you. That's a lot more than a lot of dogs get.


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## Deron_dog (Feb 21, 2009)

I belive and will belive till the day she dies that Roxie is greatful to me for rescuing her. Her former situation was horrid, she lived from the time she was taken (not weaned) from her mother, till the day she was sent to me, in a crate that was designed for a MUCH smaller dog. When she came to me, she was shy, skittesh and terrified. 2 Years later she is happy, cheerful and loving.

last week we ran into her "breeder" Roxie literally shut down while the lady was trying to get near her. I said we had to go, we were in a hurry and picked Roxie up and left quickly. When we reached the car Roxie climbed in my lap and gave me a kiss. I took that as a Thank you for getting me way from that horrible lady.


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## PiperPuppy (Nov 28, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Scientifically speaking, you are now more rewarding than previous times/people/places and rewarding lives are then anticipated and wonderful, making for a happy dog. You have become a conditioned reinforcer. This is a wonderful thing, as it allows the dog to blossom, learn and enjoy his life. If you choose to believe it's because he's grateful, that is absolutely not wrong but it may be a mirroring of how YOU feel about HIM rescuing YOU.


I agree 100%! Given my background and education, blah, blah, blah... I know more about how people think than how dogs think. What you describe here is known as projection. And if it brings more love to you and your doggies, that is wonderful.  No doubt about it, your doggies are lucky.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Yup, Nediva is very affectionate. She will nudge my hand, sit beside me, put her head on my lap, lay on my feet. Bring me a ball to throw. Lick my hand. Be super excited to see me if I leave. Roll over and act silly. Follow me, sit and look at me with those adoring eyes. Wait she is from a litter I bred myself and been with me since her birth. 

By contrast I had a male for a couple of months seemed happy for a pat but was not so into the whole affection or I got to be near you. He would play but its not the same oh so happy play time. Not to mention his mass chewing destruction. Way to show appreciation. His previous life was being kenneled with 2 other dogs, fighting for food, getting no attention, being attacked by a larger dog at times. He didn't seem the least bit aware or grateful.

I've had rescues, fosters, bought dogs, had them given to me and bred them myself. I've noted individual differences but not that rescues are more loyal, affectionate or appreciative.

A dog can't be ungrateful therefore can't be grateful. They will never be thoughtless, but then that is one reason we love them. They can't be truly thankful and appreciative in the manner we think but they will show affection, happiness for positive treatment and many will bond closely. They are social by nature though there is much they can't rationalize and certain things they don't have a concept of.

If they could have a means of knowing none would exhibit bad behavior, they'd be calm, happy dogs understanding that workers saved them and are there to help. They'd certainly never fail a temperament test.

They don't per on your floor, rip apart your expensive shoe and tear up their bed because they are ungrateful. It's not due to a lack of appreciating a warm home and nice place ti sleep.



RaeganW said:


> Fun fact about bonding!
> 
> When anyone, dog lover or not, pets a dog, their brain releases oxytocin, the "love drug" (the same chemical that post-labor mothers release to bond with their babies).
> When a dog lover pets a stuffed dog, they also experience a release of oxytocin while a non-dog lover does not.
> ...


You are great LMAO. I'm going to remember this.


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

I really don't know what Ilya thinks. LOL. That's the whole reason I would never want to ask a dog psychic because I already know he vocally complains his scooby talk whenever he doesn't get his way.

I'm just honored he feels comforted by me enough to let himself out the front door and wait for me at my parking spot. I also love the way he likes to be in the same room near me and when I'm feeling lousy, he gives me one of those husky hugs. I'm tickled pink when he makes two piles of stuffie stuffing to share with me.... as if he wants to share his happiness with me.

Those little things make up for all the other PITA things he does ()

However....... I know his world turned chaotic when he was dumped in the shelter. He lost weight so quickly and nipped Lola on the face when we adopted both of them. Lola was happy while I think Ilya was still freaking out.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

I believe that dogs have remarkable memories. As a breeder, I have had pups for the first 9-10 wks of their lives and never see them again in person for many many years. And without a doubt they know me and turn themselves inside out to greet me when we meet again, then their owners say, 'Wow he/she nevers greets anyone other than us like that'. Now isn't that a feel good feeling


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

PiperPuppy said:


> I agree 100%! Given my background and education, blah, blah, blah... I know more about how people think than how dogs think. What you describe here is known as projection. And if it brings more love to you and your doggies, that is wonderful.  No doubt about it, your doggies are lucky.


I am a long term casual student of human psychology myself...we and the dogs are more similar than disparate..they are just a bit simpler in their needs. LOL


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

even if you dont really know much behavioral stuff..

there are some tantalizing weird little differences. for example.

to humans, showing teeth in a closed mouth with a turned up expression is a friendly gesture..coming from a dog, it's a warning. makes me wonder how they REALLY see us.....


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

just like we recognize them as a different species i think they are aware that we are different from and learn our body language and facial expressions just as much as we learn theirs.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

amavanna said:


> just like we recognize them as a different species i think they are aware that we are different from and learn our body language and facial expressions just as much as we learn theirs.


did you see what i posted earlier?

brb..gonna find the study

here ya go..

http://email.eva.mpg.de/~tomas/pdf/Hare_Tomasello05.pdf


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

PiperPuppy said:


> I agree 100%! Given my background and education, blah, blah, blah... I know more about how people think than how dogs think. What you describe here is known as projection. And if it brings more love to you and your doggies, that is wonderful.  No doubt about it, your doggies are lucky.


I agree...to a point. I hate to see projection become the way people deal with their dogs ALL the time, though. Kind of like "she KNOWS it's wrong to (chew, bark, pee in the house, etc) but she's just being...(spiteful, etc)." Or going a step further and saying "I give my dog food, water, shelter, love, a bed to sleep in, buy her expensive toys and spend hundreds of dollars at the vet" and expect some form of obedience as a form of gratitude. I see it. It happens. (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, but I do see it IRL).



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> even if you dont really know much behavioral stuff..
> 
> there are some tantalizing weird little differences. for example.
> 
> to humans, showing teeth in a closed mouth with a turned up expression is a friendly gesture..coming from a dog, it's a warning. makes me wonder how they REALLY see us.....


I think a lot of dogs realize early on that a lot of humans are completely, utterly insane and unpredictable lunatics. :: nod ::


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

> "I give my dog food, water, shelter, love, a bed to sleep in, buy her expensive toys and spend hundreds of dollars at the vet" and expect some form of obedience as a form of gratitude


those are the people who didn't read NILIF carefully. They get the stuff after they comply. I tried it with my real teenagers recently and I get more chores completed before I turn the electricity back on in their rooms.

IDK.... I can see Lola think in simple terms such as 'food, water, shelter' while with Ilya, I feel a deeper bond with. Lola would behave the same way for any person while Ilya only does certain things with just me and no one else.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Oh I do think dogs remember people and places for a long time. Rose gets very excited when she sees her old owners, they all get really excited when we pull up to the breeder's, etc. But I don't think Summer sits there and compares her four years with her breeder versus the years we've had together. I think it's more a "Oh this is good, fun, happy place!" and "I like this person. They are nice to me." LOL I don't think it goes much past that...


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I agree...to a point. I hate to see projection become the way people deal with their dogs ALL the time, though. Kind of like "she KNOWS it's wrong to (chew, bark, pee in the house, etc) but she's just being...(spiteful, etc)."


OT but Ugh! This drives me crazy! My very own mother does this all the time with one of her dogs. One of her dogs is a rescue that spent literally months in the shelter. So basically she was in a cage for most of her day, and a lot times forced to urinate in her cage. Every time the dog has an accident she's like, "Nikki KNOWS better!?! She did this because she's mad at me for (insert reason here)". I'm just like, "Really Mom? It couldn't possibly be because she has never been properly housetrained? Or that you don't take her out on a set schedule nor feed her on a schedule?" It literally drives me bonkers. Don't get me wrong, my mom loves her dogs but seriously...I don't think her dog pees on the floor because she's mad my mom went shopping for the afternoon. Then she's like, "Well, she'll try to sneak upstairs when she pees in the house..." It's BECAUSE your DOWNSTAIRS and she's SNEAKING upstairs to pee because she equates "I pee, I get yelled at"...therefore she is TRYING to HIDE from you!" Like I said, it drive me nuts even though its off topic. lol


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Um yeah Uallis looks awesome. That's all I wanted to say.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

While I don't believe dogs appreciate things and the like, there are moments that I know how to explain, but make me laugh anyway. Like when Smalls is licking the couch. I will look at her when I realize it's happening and she slows down, but is still licking while looking me dead in the eye. When I say "Stop." she lowers her head and takes one last SLOW lick while staring at me.

Piss and vinegar, that dog.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't know if rescued dogs are "grateful" (or whatever that emotion is to a dog), but they do remember things. For instance, my mom's 2 dogs, both adopted as adults when their owners couldn't keep them anymore. 

Shug had a great life with her last owner. She was found as a starving, mangy puppy, and her last owner (we'll call her T) took her to the vet and fixed her up and treated her well. She had to move to low-income housing, which doesn't allow dogs. That's the only reason she had to give Shug up--she would have loved to keep her. Whenever T comes to visit, Shug goes CRAZY. She gets incredibly excited and just doesn't know what to do with herself she's so happy. When T leaves, Shug is always sad for a few days.

On the other hand, Miracle's old owner was mentally ill and abusive. She screamed and threw things and would have hit Miracle if she had been able to catch her. Sometime we bring Miracle to visit her at the assisted living facility, and, every time, Miracle will go willingly, give her old owner a polite obligatory kiss, then she wants to leave. She clearly does not want to stay with her old owner, and seems "grateful" to be leaving. She was terribly nervous the first time we took her to the facility, but once she figured out we weren't going to leave her there, she's fine with it. She is definitely NOT sad to go home.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Spicy1_VV said:


> Um yeah Uallis looks awesome. That's all I wanted to say.


Thanks! lol I think he looks pretty awesome too, if I do say so myself.



ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> While I don't believe dogs appreciate things and the like, there are moments that I know how to explain, but make me laugh anyway. Like when Smalls is licking the couch. I will look at her when I realize it's happening and she slows down, but is still licking while looking me dead in the eye. When I say "Stop." she lowers her head and takes one last SLOW lick while staring at me.
> 
> Piss and vinegar, that dog.


I don't know what it is with that. Eddie will compulsively lick the floor of his crate. We'll tell him to stop...maybe he'll stop and look at us but then goes right back to licking his crate floor again, while staring at us the whole time. Or he'll do it to his front feet. He's NUTS about keeping his feet clean. I swear he's OCD or something and gets "stuck" doing it. His feet, especially the front, have to be the cleanest feet of any dog considering how much time he spends making sure they are spotless.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I think a lot of dogs realize early on that a lot of humans are completely, utterly insane and unpredictable lunatics. :: nod ::


Lord, I really believe that. I think they see us as socially retarded a lot of the time.


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## PiperPuppy (Nov 28, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I agree...to a point. I hate to see projection become the way people deal with their dogs ALL the time, though. Kind of like "she KNOWS it's wrong to (chew, bark, pee in the house, etc) but she's just being...(spiteful, etc)." Or going a step further and saying "I give my dog food, water, shelter, love, a bed to sleep in, buy her expensive toys and spend hundreds of dollars at the vet" and expect some form of obedience as a form of gratitude. I see it. It happens. (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, but I do see it IRL).


Like I said, "And if it brings more love to you and your doggies, that is wonderful."


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Mia gives me a lot of these extremely pitying looks like "Mom, I love you even though you're really stupid."


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## PiperPuppy (Nov 28, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> Mia gives me a lot of these extremely pitying looks like "Mom, I love you even though you're really stupid."


LOL!! Sounds like she might be in her teens.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

amavanna said:


> I guess cause she knows who to come to when she is hungry needs to go outside and washes her blanket
> 
> cute story- I washed her "bed" its just a huge comforter and she sat by the washer and dryer the whole time until it was done then responded by urging me to lay with her on it when we it was folded nice and warm for her. For an animal that can't connect a to b ( yet are capable of some of the toughest jobs and have proven to do things never taught to do that have saved countless of lives) she understand that I was doing something to her bed and waited to see what it was once she found out i made it smell funny but made it really warm she took upon herself to want to "share" it with me. ( she rolls on her back and licks my feet until i get on the floor with her) I think it shows a lvl of " hey check out what you did to this bed its all warm for some reason" Now every time I do laundry she goes back and forth between her bed and the machine and looks at me like "what gives where is my warmth" lol
> 
> ...


I'm not saying dogs can't make connections, but they make immediate connections between two things happening very close to each other in time. For instance, if she sees you put her bed into the dryer, she now knows the bed is in the dryer and that you put it there. However, dog's can't make connections between things that occur hours, days, or even years apart from each other. That's why punishing a dog for peeing on the floor a hour after the fact accomplishes nothing aside from making your dog think you're unpredictable and scary. So I'm pretty sure Lela know's you're the one who puts her bed in the dryer, but I highly doubt she connects that with the day you rescued her, comprehending that you rescuing her was what caused the bed to become warm and comfy, and therefore is being appreciative of the act of being rescued by you. Just like I doubt Basil thinks to himself "Good thing I was rescued two years ago" every time I give him snuggles or treats. He probably just thinks "Gah my owner is AWESOME!" (lol, ego boost :biggrin1 without even thinking about the fact that he was rescued. That's all I'm saying.

And I do believe that dogs have very good memories, and can remember associations and connections with things. The other day we took Basil to the dog park near my mom's apartment, and next door there was a shelter that oversees the dog park. We went in to look at the adoptable dogs. The little dogs were kept in attractive displays behind glass, but the big dogs were kept outdoors in metal kennel runs. As soon as we neared the kennels, and Basil heard the sound of dozens of frantic dogs barking their heads off, he wouldn't go near any of the kennel buildings. When he left, he was jumping all over me, very excited and relieved. I'm sure he remembered the unpleasant days when he lived in a shelter, and he also remembers the good times he's spent with me. I'm not sure if that means he sees me and thinks "That's the person who saved me from this place!" I'm sure he just thinks "I've had good times around you! You make me happy!"

Also, in regards to the more current topic de-rail, I sometimes wonder what Basil thinks of us humans and our strange habits. Honestly I wonder what he must think when he sees one of us change our clothes, lol!! I have a general idea, though, considering the fact that he always averts his gaze and looks ashamed... XD

I bet if dogs were the more intelligent species, there would be a forum somewhere with a bunch of dogs posting questions like "Why is my human wasting perfectly good shreddable bathroom tissue when she has a fully functioning tongue??"


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

Xeph said:


> I never said you did (and you make several good points in your post). But before all the studying I did, I did things much differently than I do now.
> 
> 
> I don't mean to be rude, but you should take the time. Your posts are kinda hard to read.


I think you do mean to be rude. I’m not sure if you entirely understand this, so let me explain:
This is an Internet forum designed so dog owners (Not novelists. Not journalists. Not English teachers.) can come together, share stories, answer questions and just generally help each other out.
Now, if we were discussing British literature, it may be appropriate to focus on the grammar and punctuation of our posts, but this forum is about DOGS!
Correcting another member’s post and then saying “there I fixed it” is not only condescending, but it is also just mean.
If we all treated each other like that, newcomers (like myself) could get turned off to this forum, and who really wants that?
It okay to have an opinion. It is not okay to put others down while expressing it. 
Please remember that there is a PERSON reading your bullying posts, and regardless of how you feel about dogs, PEOPLE do have emotions. 

Go ahead and proofread that one for me


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes. I was being a jerkass. And yes, you are correct. This is the internet, and I am the last person to suggest it be all srs bizniz. 

BUT. You (the general, second person you) are communicating almost solely through the use of the written language. This isn't a text message, where you want to convey a few facts in the quickest amount of time with a poor quality keyboard. All but one of the major browsers offer real-time spell check; I understand the forum offer a spell checker as well. The ability of other people to understand you _matters_ in a text-based medium. Readability counts. 

I consider it a point of pride to be meticulous in my posts, but I'm really not one to get all bent out of shape over little things. But when someone's post is a single paragraph with no capital letters at the beginning of sentences, it makes that person look/sound stupid, regardless of the content.


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

RaeganW said:


> Yes. I was being a jerkass. And yes, you are correct. This is the internet, and I am the last person to suggest it be all srs bizniz.
> 
> BUT. You (the general, second person you) are communicating almost solely through the use of the written language. This isn't a text message, where you want to convey a few facts in the quickest amount of time with a poor quality keyboard. All but one of the major browsers offer real-time spell check; I understand the forum offer a spell checker as well. The ability of other people to understand you _matters_ in a text-based medium. Readability counts.
> 
> I consider it a point of pride to be meticulous in my posts, but I'm really not one to get all bent out of shape over little things. But when someone's post is a single paragraph with no capital letters at the beginning of sentences, it makes that person look/sound stupid, regardless of the content.


I understand where you’re coming from, but what you may not realize is that even though a browser’s spell check will work when someone starts a thread, it may not when they REPLY to a thread. 
For instance, I use Firefox. Every time I type in my browser, my spell check works perfectly, but I have noticed that for some reason it does not kick in when I reply to a thread on this site.
Like you, I try to write my posts as close to grammatically perfect as possible, but then again I write for a living. Things like grammar and punctuation are like second nature for me, but I understand that this is not the case with everyone else. 
I am sure that you are not actually a “jerkass” in person, but like you said: 
Our posts are all we have on this forum. Words are our only means of getting our points across.
They are also our only means of representing ourselves as individuals. 
Next time, please just think about how you want to be perceived as a person before you put someone else down.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Well, I've had dogs that were bought and dogs that were rescued. I have to say, even though many will disagree, that dogs that are rescued from a bad situation, especially a prolonged bad situation will seem to bond more deeply with it's "rescuer" than dogs that were not in a bad situation. And this is with 40 yrs of experience with rescued/purchased dogs. Rusty, the dog that was a stray for 3 yrs, and had basically turned feral to survive is a perfect example. When he was in the wild, so to speak, surviving on rabbits, cats, and trash, he would run if he saw a person 100 feet away. He slept outside wherever he could in 113 degree temps and 12 degree temps. He could jump 5' fences, and AC had tried to catch/trap him with no success during the 3 yr period. It took me 8 months of leaving food for him every day at the same time (even hiring someone to put food beside the road for him when I went on vacation for a week), before I was able to get him to take chicken from my hand. I finally caught him after 9 months. During his time in the "wild", people threw rocks at him, and one man tried to run him over with his truck intentionally, by driving off the road at him, while I watched. When confronted the guy said he was tired of him roaming loose outside his fence making his dogs bark.

Rusty took so long to learn to trust that he is very bonded to me. Moreso, than the strays I have that were only stray for a short period of time. He literally looks at me with adoration, and wouldn't dream of biting me/showing aggression no matter how scared he is of something new. (Baths/clipping/blow dryer, etc). He still doesn't trust strangers, but will lay at my feet on a leash while I sit next to someone. He really seems to appreciate having a bed, air conditioning and affection. My other two have been treated equally by me, and are bonded to me, but there is just something different about Rusty. He truly seems to appreciate having a home.

Another example of a dog never having it rough, was Fats, who was rescued as a litter of 5 newborns (less than a day old) that were dumped in the desert in a blanket. He never had bad treatment in his life, and was a great dog, very smart, and loyal, but just didn't seem to appreciate having a home as much as Rusty does. I really think that dogs appreciate having a good owner/home/life. Maybe you can't say they show gratitude, but it's pretty darn close, from my own experiences with rescued dogs/non rescued dogs.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

> . But when someone's post is a single paragraph with no capital letters at the beginning of sentences, it makes that person look/sound stupid, regardless of the content.


Just for your comfort my left shift key is broken so I have to use my right one to capitalize and I am not used to that yet. And also for your comfort you can always skip my 'stupid' posts if they bother you to read so much. I want to ignore the people that have been harping on me rather then argue with them anymore but when people use words like stupid ( which in this house is considered a bad word when you raise children) you don't really show people how smart you are.

I never expected a dog forum to focus on things that have nothing to do with dogs either. You know nothing about me but are really fast to judge me based on lowercase letter and one misspelled word in a post ( because of the type of people like you I usually try REALLY hard to focus on spelling cause I know that type will just try to put me down because of it) I just recently got my G.E.D and am trying to go back to college while still maintaining being a mom and wife and dog owner. I don't really care that you want to waste your time correcting me that is up to you if you have that much time on your hands. But it doesn't have to do with weather or not my post had anything worth while to say ,it has everything to do with trying to corner me into retaliating. Obviously you won that much cause I did respond and didn't ignore it because I try to figure out why it was worth your time and effort to go so far to put me down just cause you don't like what I have to say. 

I have noticed here that a lot of people have gone to college and are really just super "smart" but all that book knowledge and schooling doesn't help you much if you can't even talk to someone without being disrespectful and hurtful. 

“Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.”
Robert Quillen


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I think you do mean to be rude. I’m not sure if you entirely understand this, so let me explain:


I find it hilarious, Tom, that not only did you quote the WRONG person (I'm not the one that did all the correcting, Raegan was, which she said), you're being amusingly condescending yourself.

And honestly amavanna, I was skipping over your posts, because they were HARD to read. I skip over any posts that are just a wall of text with no paragraphs in between.

Zim doesn't use capital letters very much, mostly because she types the majority of her posts from a cell phone. Now, grammatically speaking it really bothers me, because I can be a super grammar nazi (I type in complete sentences with all the punctuation when I text), however, zim posts in clear paragraphs and still uses punctuation, so I can understand what she's saying.

I skip anything that's a giant wall of text because it makes my eyes hurt.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

spotted nikes said:


> Well, I've had dogs that were bought and dogs that were rescued. I have to say, even though many will disagree, that dogs that are rescued from a bad situation, especially a prolonged bad situation will seem to bond more deeply with it's "rescuer" than dogs that were not in a bad situation. And this is with 40 yrs of experience with rescued/purchased dogs. Rusty, the dog that was a stray for 3 yrs, and had basically turned feral to survive is a perfect example. When he was in the wild, so to speak, surviving on rabbits, cats, and trash, he would run if he saw a person 100 feet away. He slept outside wherever he could in 113 degree temps and 12 degree temps. He could jump 5' fences, and AC had tried to catch/trap him with no success during the 3 yr period. It took me 8 months of leaving food for him every day at the same time (even hiring someone to put food beside the road for him when I went on vacation for a week), before I was able to get him to take chicken from my hand. I finally caught him after 9 months. During his time in the "wild", people threw rocks at him, and one man tried to run him over with his truck intentionally, by driving off the road at him, while I watched. When confronted the guy said he was tired of him roaming loose outside his fence making his dogs bark.
> 
> Rusty took so long to learn to trust that he is very bonded to me. Moreso, than the strays I have that were only stray for a short period of time. He literally looks at me with adoration, and wouldn't dream of biting me/showing aggression no matter how scared he is of something new. (Baths/clipping/blow dryer, etc). He still doesn't trust strangers, but will lay at my feet on a leash while I sit next to someone. He really seems to appreciate having a bed, air conditioning and affection. My other two have been treated equally by me, and are bonded to me, but there is just something different about Rusty. He truly seems to appreciate having a home.
> 
> Another example of a dog never having it rough, was Fats, who was rescued as a litter of 5 newborns (less than a day old) that were dumped in the desert in a blanket. He never had bad treatment in his life, and was a great dog, very smart, and loyal, but just didn't seem to appreciate having a home as much as Rusty does. I really think that dogs appreciate having a good owner/home/life. Maybe you can't say they show gratitude, but it's pretty darn close, from my own experiences with rescued dogs/non rescued dogs.


Some may call this "gratitude," but are you sure that all of the extra time and work you've put into this dog to transition him from feral to loving pet isn't the cause of your exceptionally strong bond with Rusty? I like to think the harder you work with a dog, the stronger the bond you build. When I adopted Basil, he had a rough start. He wasn't trained, wasn't socialized, had resource guarding problems, and horrible separation anxiety. I've worked REALLY hard to get him to the point he's at now. I don't know what our bond would have been like if he was already "perfect" or anything, but I do think that all of that hard work and the time I've spent with him overcoming challenges has contributed significantly to our bond. However, I don't think that Basil comprehends the act of me rescuing him, so I don't think that that's what caused our bond to become so strong.

And I don't really think this just applies to dogs with "problems." It could also apply to people who have worked very hard with their dog in agility, or training their dog to herd or their farm, or training their dog to become a service dog, etc.


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## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

I don't know that Pepper "appreciates" living with me - in an anthropomorphic sense.

I do know that he feels safe when he's on my lap or in my arms - its the first place he goes when he's stressed or scared.

I don't think he's sitting there thinking "I have a full belly, a warm lap to sit on whenever I want it, tons of toys, and I don't have to sleep in a cage with 10 other dogs, caked with pee and poop. Boy am I lucky!!"

I do believe that _he _believes he deserves every toy, treat and soft bed. I think _he _thinks that he's a prince!

I think he has issues related to his past - he barks at my BF, but only when he's standing (which makes me think his original backyard breeder owner was a tall, blond man). He is afraid of sudden movements - mine or anyone else's. He freaks when we get into the car (which I tend to think of his fear of being shifted to a new home), but when we are on the way home, he is calm - he sits quietly or goes to sleep. He hates the rain (many dogs do) but I believe its more about being cold and wet in an overstuffed breeders cage. 

But what I do know (and is all that really matters to me) is that he's happy and safe. And I know he makes me happier than I thought I could be - even when he's being a PITA.


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## jess4525 (Aug 27, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> *This^^ Uallis is afraid of the baby gate and won't even touch it because he remembers that it one time fell on him when he was a puppy. Eddie had ONE bad experience with a UPS man and now hates them...to the point he can be aggressive to them. Before the experience he was fine with them, now he's scared. He remembers. Like, MMM said, there are a gazillion things that happens in the course of a day to show that they have some form of longterm memory.*
> 
> 
> I agree with this too. Eddie was a stray. I seriously doubt that he has appreciation for me taking him in or is thankful for me. We have a close bond, but like you said, I think that has to do with bond building through training. Also, coupled with the fact that I feed him, give him attention and affection and in general, take care of him.


I agree with this also. When we first got Cam, my husband and his dad started to walk down the stairs to the front door and Cam decided to follow them. He slid down the stairs on his belly (they're hardwood)...He has not gone down those stairs since. It's been over a year and a half.


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

Xeph said:


> I find it hilarious, Tom, that not only did you quote the WRONG person (I'm not the one that did all the correcting, Raegan was, which she said), you're being amusingly condescending yourself.
> 
> And honestly amavanna, I was skipping over your posts, because they were HARD to read. I skip over any posts that are just a wall of text with no paragraphs in between.
> 
> ...


You seem to be the only one still stuck on this topic. It takes a very small person to bully someone else on an Internet message board.
Raegan was able to own up to her meanness, and we have all moved on…
All of us except for you.
I find it a little hard to believe that you would still be dwelling on this subject if both amavana and I shared your point of view.
So please. Spare me the “you quoted the wrong person” shenanigans. You know as well as I do that you were trying to someone down-someone you have never met.
I sincerely hope that you do not treat people this way in person, but after reading several of your antagonizing posts on this thread, I’m afraid that you might.
Please prove me wrong and just try to have some more respect for people.
(P.S. If you want to call yourself a “grammar Nazi,” you may want to check your grammar. Just a thought.)


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TomTheDog said:


> You seem to be the only one still stuck on this topic. It takes a very small person *to bully someone else on an Internet message board.*
> Raegan was able to own up to her meanness, and we have all moved on…
> All of us except for you.
> I find it a little hard to believe that you would still be dwelling on this subject if both amavana and I shared your point of view.
> ...


pot....kettle...yeah...and all that jazz.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

TomTheDog said:


> You seem to be the only one still stuck on this topic. It takes a very small person to bully someone else on an Internet message board.
> Raegan was able to own up to her meanness, and we have all moved on…
> All of us except for you.
> I find it a little hard to believe that you would still be dwelling on this subject if both amavana and I shared your point of view.
> ...


What exactly would Xeph stand to gain by "downing someone on a message board" when in reality she was disagreeing with someone, which we're perfectly allowed to do. I suppose I was just born with thicker skin and don't feel bullied when someone, internet or otherwise, disagrees with me. I also have to wonder what you stand to gain by requesting she stop "bullying" and "dwelling" when you're retopping this to do the same, especially with your last sentence. And duh someone wouldn't argue with you if they shard the same point of view. What would be there to argue with?

As someone who is admittedly difficult to deal with in some aspects, I get along with Xeph quite well on and off this board. I think my ability to not dream up hidden internet agendas and realize not every one agrees with me may have something to do with it. Or she is using me for my champion GSD mutt. I suspect the former.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

TomTheDog said:


> You seem to be the only one still stuck on this topic. It takes a very small person to bully someone else on an Internet message board.
> Raegan was able to own up to her meanness, and we have all moved on…
> All of us except for you.
> I find it a little hard to believe that you would still be dwelling on this subject if both amavana and I shared your point of view.
> ...


get over it... its what people do on the internet. If you allow someone else's comments to make you upset.... its your issue. Get ovfer it an move on.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> *I think my ability to not dream up hidden internet agendas and realize not every one agrees with me may have something to do with it. *


THIS!!!!!! Some sort of bulletin should get dropped in every new member's email that says something like that. because it's true.

seems like a lot of new people have been showing up to clutter the board with a bunch of "OH POOR ME!!!" poo pooing about their feelings...which is absolutely ridiculous. Disagreements happen. 

people need to put on their big girl panties and deal with the fact that people are sooooooooooo wildly different that assuming insult when you dont really know anything about the person in question is quite frankly..stupid.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

marsha=whitie said:


> get over it... its what people do on the internet. If you allow someone else's comments to make you upset.... its your issue. Get ovfer it an move on.


Welcome back! I haven't seen you around in a hot minute.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Welcome back! I haven't seen you around in a hot minute.


I know! my computer was stolen around May, and I just recently got a new one, so i'm back! Whoo!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

marsha=whitie said:


> I know! my computer was stolen around May, and I just recently got a new one, so i'm back! Whoo!


That is awful! Glad you're back. We've noticed some long time members disappearing and I was wondering if there was a conspiracy going on.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> That is awful! Glad you're back. We've noticed some long time members disappearing and I was wondering if there was a conspiracy going on.



me too. i figured you fed them all to Smalls.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> That is awful! Glad you're back. We've noticed some long time members disappearing and I was wondering if there was a conspiracy going on.


I'm too addicted to leave for good. I mean, when my computer was stolen I was so distraut... rocking back and forth in a corner.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> me too. i figured you fed them all to Smalls.


Oh great blow my hidden agenda right out in the open.



marsha=whitie said:


> I'm too addicted to leave for good. I mean, when my computer was stolen I was so distraut... rocking back and forth in a corner.


I have no idea what I would do without my computer. But someone would REALLY have to want it to break in here and get it.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Hi marsha=whitie  Good to see you back!



> i figured you fed them all to Smalls.


I always assume they're being fed to Jonas.



> Spare me the “you quoted the wrong person” shenanigans.


There were no shenanigans. You credited me with correcting amavanna's post, and I'm not the one that did that.

I did tell her that it would be nice if she could use her spell check and not use walls of text so her posts were easier to read.

So check who you're attributing the quoted material to before you accuse a person of doing something they didn't.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Xeph said:


> I always assume they're being fed to Jonas.


They probably split them...they're both long dogs...they PROBABLY got a lot of room in there for squirming long lost DFers.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*searches for Mudra, harisse, and Friday's mom*


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> people need to put on their big girl panties


_*hiking up my big girl panties*_

I think we all just need a big group hug...:grouphug:

Honestly, the only thing I wanted to do was snicker at "big girl panties" and use the group hug smiley. In my defense, I was headbutted in the face earlier today and my head is still a little loopy.

Carry on.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Xeph said:


> *searches for Mudra, harisse, and Friday's mom*


you know harrise is wandering around on a mountain somewhere with a barrel of rum and a posse of "droolingly stupid sledheds"


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yo ho ho and a barrel of rum!


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Xeph said:


> *searches for Mudra, harisse, and Friday's mom*


Mudra is on facebook all the time. Harisse has been gone forever and has anyone heard from Fridaysmom since her pup passed away?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

No  And even though I know she still exists, I also miss SugarDaddyOtis. She was fab.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Xeph said:


> No  And even though I know she still exists, I also miss SugarDaddyOtis. She was fab.


I miss Jdub...wait...uhhh.....no...i miss MIKE!!!! lmfao....he was so mainstreme<3<3


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Xeph said:


> *searches for Mudra, harisse, and Friday's mom*


-Whistles-


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You are so inconspicuous Mrs. Gacy

BTW, the fact that we're insinuating you're mass murdering DF members...it really makes that new nickname scarily approrpriate


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

i do miss Harrise badly. he was my best enemy ever. and i wanna see how his doggy dresses are coming along.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I am completely unaware of what you're talking about. :bolt:


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Xeph said:


> No  And even though I know she still exists, I also miss SugarDaddyOtis. She was fab.


She was awesome and I especially miss Otis. It was fun having another Mastiff around.  I think poor Uallynuts is the only one now..._*sniff*_


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Jonas thinks he's a Mastiff if that counts.


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Hi marsha=whitie  Good to see you back!
> 
> 
> I always assume they're being fed to Jonas.
> ...


Listen, 

I apologize for quoting the wrong person, but I'm pretty sure that other people got my point. 

I work as a writer for a website where people are allowed to post all the comments they want about my writing, and most of them are encouraging or at least civil.

But some are just plain mean. Part of it might be because I am a woman who writes for one of the country's leading sports websites. These men assume that I don't know what I'm talking about simply because I am female. I have had people resort to personal attacks when all I want to do is talk about the subject matter in my articles. 

The comments on this forum are extremely tame compared to what I experience on a daily basis, but I was simply standing up for someone who has been very welcoming and helpful from the second I joined this site. I meant to ill will to anyone, and I apologize to anyone who thought I was trying to start an argument. That was not my intent. In fact, I wanted the opposite. 

I was trying to temper a situation before someone's feelings really got hurt. 

And as for the "thicker skin" comment (not from you), do some people really need thicker skin? Or do the rest of us need more compassion. In an age where Internet bullying is a very real (and very impactful) thing, I think it's best to use caution with our words.

But that is my own opinion.

So again, I am new here, and I am sorry for the drama.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Overall I'm actually a very amiable person. I really am. I also hate conflict. And believe it or not, I WASN'T trying to be rude to amavanna. In general, she will receive more responses not only to her posts within a thread, but threads SHE starts if things are easier to read.

It's not a matter of liking or disliking a person. It's a matter of readability. "Wall of text" is difficult to decipher, and I skip over posts like those. I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm trying to avoid a literal headache.


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Overall I'm actually a very amiable person. I really am. I also hate conflict. And believe it or not, I WASN'T trying to be rude to amavanna. In general, she will receive more responses not only to her posts within a thread, but threads SHE starts if things are easier to read.
> 
> It's not a matter of liking or disliking a person. It's a matter of readability. "Wall of text" is difficult to decipher, and I skip over posts like those. I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm trying to avoid a literal headache.


I understand. Truce?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TomTheDog said:


> And as for the "thicker skin" comment (not from you), do some people really need thicker skin? Or do the rest of us need more compassion. In an age where Internet bullying is a very real (and very impactful) thing, I think it's best to use caution with our words.
> .


like...here's my thing. no one here really knows what anyone else here intends with their posts..they dont know what other's lives are like and they dont know what's considered rude where the other person comes from. there are many things that the person you stuck up for has said that if they said that to me in real life..they'd be running the risk of getting socked in the face. i havent much complained. because im pretty sure she doesnt understand that she's being horrifically insulting. and yet she's accused me of being horrifically insulting.

forums dont lend themselves to insights on people's individual perspectives very well. internet insults are a very subjective and interpretive thing. do i censor myself? someone could still take something i said the wrong way...so i choose to be myself and not worry about what people think about something they dont understand...and everyone should be encouraged to understand and accept that people are different. 

it's called big girl panties..try'm...they're silky....


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Mmmm silky goodness


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Did somebody say Slim Goodness? I'm still here.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

I don't even remember what this thread was about...


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Jonas thinks he's a Mastiff if that counts.


Jonas can be anything he wants. If he wants to be a Mastiff then he's a Mastiff. 

Uallis says Wecome to the Mighty Mastiff that is Jonas.

Ohhhhhhh, silky...Now I'm wandering why MY big girl panties aren't silky. No fair!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> Jonas can be anything he wants. If he wants to be a Mastiff then he's a Mastiff.
> 
> Uallis says Wecome to the Mighty Mastiff that is Jonas.


Smallest Mastiff in the world! It makes me so sad Jonas would face bite Ually if he met him. His dog aggression is far and wide, but man, he HATES big dogs. The poor goofy Dane on our block just doesn't understand.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Mdawn said:


> Jonas can be anything he wants. If he wants to be a Mastiff then he's a Mastiff.
> 
> Uallis says Wecome to the Mighty Mastiff that is Jonas.
> 
> Ohhhhhhh, silky...Now I'm wandering why MY big girl panties aren't silky. No fair!


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Smallest Mastiff in the world! It makes me so sad Jonas would face bite Ually if he met him. His dog aggression is far and wide, but man, he HATES big dogs. The poor goofy Dane on our block just doesn't understand.


If it makes you feel better, Uallis more than likely wouldn't want anything to do with Jonas OR Otis (SugarDaddy's Mastiff) either. He has no use for other dogs and that includes Eddie. He's not DA but really just prefers to be left alone. It was just nice to have "Mastiff Talk" with another Mastiff owner.



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


>


Well...they are starting to chafe!


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> like...here's my thing. no one here really knows what anyone else here intends with their posts..they dont know what other's lives are like and they dont know what's considered rude where the other person comes from. there are many things that the person you stuck up for has said that if they said that to me in real life..they'd be running the risk of getting socked in the face. i havent much complained. because im pretty sure she doesnt understand that she's being horrifically insulting. and yet she's accused me of being horrifically insulting.
> 
> forums dont lend themselves to insights on people's individual perspectives very well. internet insults are a very subjective and interpretive thing. do i censor myself? someone could still take something i said the wrong way...so i choose to be myself and not worry about what people think about something they dont understand...and everyone should be encouraged to understand and accept that people are different.
> 
> it's called big girl panties..try'm...they're silky....


Well, I just joined this forum like two days ago, so I did not know your history with this other member. 

I have made an attempt to see things from everyone else's point of view, but again I'm told to "put my big girl panties on" (which, unless you're living in Montana, hasn't been funny since 1996).

I understand that some people put up the front of "I'm being myself, and everyone else is just too sensitive," but just know that as ADULTS, at least a small amount of sensitivity is not optional.

I think that I have stated my opinion and explained my reasoning well enough without being insulting. If you choose to continue to treat strangers that way, there isn't much I can do about it. 

Peace.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> If it makes you feel better, Uallis more than likely wouldn't want anything to do with Jonas OR Otis (SugarDaddy's Mastiff) either. He has no use for other dogs and that includes Eddie. He's not DA but really just prefers to be left alone. It was just nice to have "Mastiff Talk" with another Mastiff owner.


It's OK. Smalls is the same way. She rushes to greet a dog, and then within 3 seconds it's almost like "Ohhh, a dog. Who cares." and she is completely uninterested. 

Well, if you hold out hope and my boyfriend wins, we will have a Cane Corso sometime in the future.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

This thread turned weird.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

That isn't a new occurrence


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

TomTheDog said:


> Well, I just joined this forum like two days ago, so I did not know your history with this other member.
> 
> I have made an attempt to see things from everyone else's point of view, but again I'm told to "put my big girl panties on" (which, unless you're living in Montana, hasn't been funny since 1996).
> 
> ...


You're demanding every one be sensitive, and then making a point to insult. I'm sure our members living in Montana will be thrilled that you find them slow. Veiled generalizations like that in attempt to insult somebody haven't ever been funny. Somehow I manage to work day to day without offending any of my clients, and a large portion of them are mentally or physically disabled or elderly, speaking the very same way I do on this forum. 
Beyond that, Zim was clearly extending an olive branch to you. I think this is just a case of the uppities.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TomTheDog said:


> Well, I just joined this forum like two days ago, so I did not know your history with this other member.


didnt think you did. but that wasnt the point. the point was that she thought she was being just peachy to me by being herself..so did i..we both took offense...happens all the time. it's not the big deal people make it out to be...and it's not going to stop happening no matter how much you try to nanny people into playing things the way you like.



> I have made an attempt to see things from everyone else's point of view, but again I'm told to "put my big girl panties on" (which, unless you're living in Montana, hasn't been funny since 1996).


Have you ever been to the rural south? . and it doesnt seem like you're making an effort. its about letting the trivial crap slide. simply because it's trivial.



> I understand that some people put up the front of "I'm being myself, and everyone else is just too sensitive," but just know that as ADULTS, at least a small amount of sensitivity is not optional.


it's not a front. I moderate myself quite heavily here...which means i follow the rules and dont make personal attacks. to me being rude is attacking other people over things that dont matter..like mannerisms and the way people talk...that's trivial crap. the important thing is WHAT they're saying..not how.




> I think that I have stated my opinion and explained my reasoning well enough without being insulting. If you choose to continue to treat strangers that way, there isn't much I can do about it.


not really. i think you're being rude as hell. but i dont care. *shrug*


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

TomTheDog said:


> I have made an attempt to see things from everyone else's point of view, but again I'm told to "put my big girl panties on" (which, unless you're living in Montana, hasn't been funny since 1996).


That is a direct insult on people from and living in Montana. ETA: and/or people that lol'ed at "big girl panties", I guess.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I think that I have stated my opinion and explained my reasoning well enough without being insulting. If you choose to continue to treat strangers that way, there isn't much I can do about it.


You actually insulted a lot of people....people that you don't know. As you keep pointing out, you're new here, you don't know us or our posting styles. You just side with the person you deem "nice" as opposed to taking a step back and looking at the arguments of others and their validity.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Ugh... here we go again.

Wtf does it matter? I think that someone should close this thread, 'cause its getting ridiculous and VERY far from the original topic.


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## TomTheDog (Dec 7, 2010)

waterbaby said:


> That is a direct insult on people from and living in Montana. ETA: and/or people that lol'ed at "big girl panties", I guess.


You mean all 12 of them?


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> It's OK. Smalls is the same way. She rushes to greet a dog, and then within 3 seconds it's almost like "Ohhh, a dog. Who cares." and she is completely uninterested.
> 
> Well, if you hold out hope and my boyfriend wins, we will have a Cane Corso sometime in the future.


Uallis doesn't even rush to meet a new dog...His whole attitude is "A dog? Whatever."

I'm from Ohio and I still think "big girl panties" are funny. In fact, its probably something I'll be saying all the time now. :rockon: Honestly, I just want to be able to use the word "panties" in a conversation. I'm extremely juvenile. It's just normally I try to hide it.

Montana is an extremely beautiful state. I'd live there if I could. (I honestly need to lay off the pain meds.)


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Mdawn said:


> Uallis doesn't even rush to meet a new dog...His whole attitude is "A dog? Whatever."
> 
> I'm from Ohio and I still think "big girl panties" are funny. In fact, its probably something I'll be saying all the time now. :rockon: Honestly, I just want to be able to use the word "panties" in a conversation. I'm extremely juvenile. It's just normally I try to hide it.
> 
> Montana is an extremely beautiful state. I'd live there if I could. (I honestly need to lay off the pain meds.)


Hey, I live in Ohio too! well... the slum city of Cincinnati. >.<


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Mdawn said:


> Uallis doesn't even rush to meet a new dog...His whole attitude is "A dog? Whatever."
> 
> I'm from Ohio and I still think "big girl panties" are funny. In fact, its probably something I'll be saying all the time now. :rockon: Honestly, I just want to be able to use the word "panties" in a conversation. I'm extremely juvenile. It's just normally I try to hide it.


it's something i picked up from my ornery 82 year old grandmother. When we would whine about something...she'd snap "Putcha biggurl panties ON!" ...coming from a five foot two 82 year old southern matron with flowers on her walking stick. I say it often in her honor when the situation seems to call for it.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

TomTheDog said:


> You mean all 12 of them?


At least 6. We're not all literate, you know.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

marsha=whitie said:


> Hey, I live in Ohio too! well... the slum city of Cincinnati. >.<


Ohhh, your about 4 hours from me. I think I've only been to Cincinnati one time. lol I'm more familiar with Cleveland.



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> it's something i picked up from my ornery 82 year old grandmother. When we would whine about something...she'd snap "Putcha biggurl panties ON!" ...coming from a five foot two 82 year old southern matron with flowers on her walking stick. I say it often in her honor when the situation seems to call for it.


I can just picture that perfectly in my head. lol I think its the perfect expression.



waterbaby said:


> At least 6. We're not all literate, you know.


Honestly, a few years ago, my boyfriend and I went on vacation in Montana. It is, literally, the most beautiful place I've been. To me, part of its charm was that there wasn't A LOT of people everywhere you went. Montana is simply...awesome. I'd love to go back.


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

> there are many things that the person you stuck up for has said that if they said that to me in real life..they'd be running the risk of getting socked in the face.


Childish. I guess that is how you approach differences with childish threats. The fact I have tried numerous times to call it square even offered a private pm convo to get things clear and this is the type of thing you say? For the record most people with empty threats get in trouble I would concern yourself about following your own advice of big girl panties and stop talking about things you can't readily back up..


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> Honestly, a few years ago, my boyfriend and I went on vacation in Montana. It is, literally, the most beautiful place I've been. To me, part of its charm was that there wasn't A LOT of people everywhere you went. Montana is simply...awesome. I'd love to go back.


I love it. I've been here 7 years and I want to stay forever. We pretty much have an open-door policy, so if you ever want a place to crash for a few days...


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

amavanna said:


> Childish. I guess that is how you approach differences with childish threats. The fact I have tried numerous times to call it square even offered a private pm convo to get things clear and this is the type of thing you say? For the record most people with empty threats get in trouble I would concern yourself about following your own advice of big girl panties and stop talking about things you can't readily back up..


its not an empty threat...its not even a threat. its an expression of anger. You have not tried to call it square. you have tried to drag things out over and over again. 

there's nothing for me to even have to care about backing up. you're really beginning to crack me up with how intensely you seem to deliberately take offense to everything i say. you allude to "people who make me feel bad" in threads i havent posted in..i guess you think i dont see that stuff? 

but whatever. flip yourself out over imagined insults all you want. *shrug*


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## amavanna (Nov 20, 2010)

Bull shit I did try to call it square. I tried in the thread where I suggested we pm and you just said " I have nothing to hide and we can start a new thread" which is completly pointless. The point of a conversation between two people to work things out is that it is BETWEEN two people. You would prefer to argue and drag other people into the arguement so that someone can see it and go " I agree with Zim" Why couldn't you have the back bone to have a one on one conversation with me?

You also like to bait people. It dosen't matter what it is about. There was NO reason for the statement you said a few posts above. I haven't been back to this page and commented until your little colorful expression of anger. It was unnessary and had nothing to do with what was being discussed on THIS thread. 

You would sooner keep saying things that you know can and/or will be misinterpeted then just speak without bias. You think just because it's a forum you can talk how you want and if someone else finds that it is inappropriate that that is their problem. I am sure you wouldn't be so slack about your words to a boss or a spouse or anyone else that you respected. Just because you don't see someone one face to face dosen't mean I deserve less respect.

I HAVE tried to look past your blunt attitude on things but because we already had our "tiff" if you will , you will continue to hold on to it so you have someone to bicker with. If that is the case and I can't post here without ridicule or people ignoring my posts for help for my DOG , which is why I am here. Then please tell me and I will GTFO. I am not here to for any other reason then Lela. If I can't come here and still feel I will get advice and help when I need it just because of "Grammar and wall text" or just because you or a few others don't like me personally then I rather know so I can find a forum who is more interested on the dog.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You know what I like? Turtles. Turtles and anteaters. YO CP! Can we get some anteaters here? Preferably ones wearing sweaters!


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

waterbaby said:


> I love it. I've been here 7 years and I want to stay forever. We pretty much have an open-door policy, so if you ever want a place to crash for a few days...


I honestly think that if it wasn't for the family ties I have here that my boyfriend and I would have packed everything up and moved there. Granted, I haven't been through a Montana winter, but in the summer...OMG...it was awesome. And so CLEAN smelling. It was one of the first things I noticed. When we exited out of the airport in Ohio, after our vacation, the first I noticed was the smell. It smells horrible here. lol All the factories and plants I imagine, not to mention the humidity. I like where I live...its very beautiful in is own way as a quiet river town...but it really does smell bad...at times. lol


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)




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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

amavanna said:


> Bull shit I did try to call it square. I tried in the thread where I suggested we pm and you just said " I have nothing to hide and we can start a new thread" which is completly pointless. The point of a conversation between two people to work things out is that it is BETWEEN two people. You would prefer to argue and drag other people into the arguement so that someone can see it and go " I agree with Zim" Why couldn't you have the back bone to have a one on one conversation with me?


because i dont want to. its just not that important to me. it's not between me and you. it's between you and you. i made ONE comment in the wolfdog thread after you tried to gut me for speaking on topic about what i felt was important for that particular poster to know. after that you took every opportunity to rag on me for posting the way i post. which is lame. so i respond.

and i could give a crap about people agreeing with me. if i did care...i wouldnt post on this forum at all. Im here to learn, share what i know and socialize with those who i get along with. Not to kowtow to what you think i should be posting like. if i were making such horrible posts....i would've been banned long ago. the only people who have any say over what i post are the moderators..and to them i will respectfully bow because that is their right and authority..not yours.



> You also like to bait people. It dosen't matter what it is about. There was NO reason for the statement you said a few posts above. I haven't been back to this page and commented until your little colorful expression of anger. It was unnessary and had nothing to do with what was being discussed on THIS thread.


no. i dont like to bait people. i was explaining something to someone else. if i had been baiting you..it would've been direct. i dont beat around the bush.



> You would sooner keep saying things that you know can and/or will be misinterpeted then just speak without bias. You think just because it's a forum you can talk how you want and if someone else finds that it is inappropriate that that is their problem. I am sure you wouldn't be so slack about your words to a boss or a spouse or anyone else that you respected. Just because you don't see someone one face to face dosen't mean I deserve less respect.


i am not being slack with my words. i speak to you like i speak to everyone else except here..im more more reserved. and in real life..people respect me for it. because they know i wont beat around the bush and ill tell them EXACTLY what i think. my boss asked me today if the pants she was wearing made her look fat..i told her she looked like a retarded hippo..she laughed...but then again..i work in an auto repair shop and that kind of smack talk is expected.



> I HAVE tried to look past your blunt attitude on things but because we already had our "tiff" if you will , you will continue to hold on to it so you have someone to bicker with. If that is the case and I can't post here without ridicule or people ignoring my posts for help for my DOG , which is why I am here. Then please tell me and I will GTFO. I am not here to for any other reason then Lela. If I can't come here and still feel I will get advice and help when I need it just because of "Grammar and wall text" or just because you or a few others don't like me personally then I rather know so I can find a forum who is more interested on the dog.


here's the funny thing. you and i actually have some stuff in common...have you ever asked me about my life? you want to pm talk? i dont want to sit there and read you whining at me...if you want to talk to me...TALK TO ME..dont talk AT me..ask me legitimate questions...ask me what my life is like...you want to "end the tiff"? then talk to me..

because i never really thought that there was an argument at all..just seems like you like to rag on people. it never really mattered to me at al. you dont like what i post? report me to the mods or dont respond. you want to actually talk?

then talk. for real. without sophistry or accusations.



ThoseWordsAtBest said:


>


<3<3 brilliant. lmao.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Xeph said:


> You know what I like? Turtles. Turtles and anteaters. YO CP! Can we get some anteaters here? Preferably ones wearing sweaters!


Xeph, I like anteaters. You know what I know what I like best? Anteaters wearing sweaters, or denim jackets!! ..........................OMG!! So do YOU!! We should *all* have pictures in our signatures of anteaters wearing sweaters and denim jackets!! Then we'd all be one big happy family...:hug: _*sigh*_


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Xeph said:


> You know what I like? Turtles. Turtles and anteaters. YO CP! Can we get some anteaters here? Preferably ones wearing sweaters!


yes please.ill take a turtle with a side of anteater. hold the armadillo.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

..............


opcorn:


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Don't hold the armadillo too closely. They're abrasive.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Xeph said:


> Don't hold the armadillo too closely. They're abrasive.


good point. your wisdom is all encompasing.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I love armadillos.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

I've only ever seen dead, roadkill armadillos


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I love armadillos.


I do too..... They are great on the grill.... I got some home made BBQ sauce I make with lots of vinegar. Man its good.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I do too..... They are great on the grill.... I got some home made BBQ sauce I make with lots of vinegar. Man its good.


Are they? I was unaware they were even edible. The more you know *rainbow*


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I do too..... They are great on the grill.... I got some home made BBQ sauce I make with lots of vinegar. Man its good.


i always imagined they would taste like gator tail. 

now i wanna eat an armadillo....and some gator tail....


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Are they? I was unaware they were even edible. The more you know *rainbow*


You should watch Bizarre Foods, that guy ate Amradillo one episode. I've been introduced to more strange cuisine watching that show than I ever dreamed!


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Pai said:


> You should watch Bizarre Foods, that guy ate Amradillo one episode. I've been introduced to more strange cuisine watching that show than I ever dreamed!


*I LOVE ANDREW ZIMMERN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Just sayin'......


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Are they? I was unaware they were even edible. The more you know *rainbow*


They are very good. Some folks worry about messing with them because they supposedly can carry leprosy (sp?). 

But I have never had an issue or every heard of anyone getting it from armadillos.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I concur with the zimmern love...with the exception of the tarantula eating (arachnophobic I am).


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> i always imagined they would taste like gator tail.
> 
> now i wanna eat an armadillo....and some gator tail....


Never had gator tail? Sad.... I don't cook it like they do in restaraunts though.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Xeph said:


> I concur with the zimmern love...with the exception of the tarantula eating (arachnophobic I am).


and the scorpions.... ick.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Never had gator tail? Sad.... I don't cook it like they do in restaraunts though.


i LOVE to eat me some gator tail. for real. delicious. 

have no idea where id get armadillo around here though. hmm..


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Mdawn said:


> Xeph, I like anteaters. You know what I know what I like best? Anteaters wearing sweaters, or denim jackets!! ..........................OMG!! So do YOU!! We should *all* have pictures in our signatures of anteaters wearing sweaters and denim jackets!! Then we'd all be one big happy family...:hug: _*sigh*_


Mdawn, would you care to pour me a glass of whatever you're drinking tonight? LOL!

I don't agree with everything everybody posts here. But that doesn't mean I dislike them as people, or that I'll sacrifice pleasant, cordial conversation for the sake of my own grumpiness. I LOVE posting here and reading other's opinions. But it's only enjoyable when I keep from taking things personally. 

And finally, here's Basil in a backpack.











zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> i always imagined they would taste like gator tail.
> 
> now i wanna eat an armadillo....and some gator tail....


I LOOOOVE gator tail! And Andrew Zimmern :biggrin1:


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

marsha=whitie said:


> and the scorpions.... ick.


Never eaten scorpions... But there is a grasshopper that lives on the marsh grass in the Everglades. They are quite good.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

marsha=whitie said:


> and the scorpions.... ick.


scorpions are goooood too. they taste like shrimp basically..just crunchier.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> i LOVE to eat me some gator tail. for real. delicious.
> 
> have no idea where id get armadillo around here though. hmm..


They run around here like rats. We just shoot 'em. My Grandaddy told me there were no armadillos in Florida when he was young. He wished there were. They were poor.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> They run around here like rats. We just shoot 'em. My Grandaddy told me there were no armadillos in Florida when he was young. He wished there were. They were poor.


so it's like the florida equivalent of Carolina squirrel stew. cool.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Mdawn said:


> Xeph, I like anteaters. You know what I know what I like best? Anteaters wearing sweaters, or denim jackets!! ..........................OMG!! So do YOU!! We should *all* have pictures in our signatures of anteaters wearing sweaters and denim jackets!! Then we'd all be one big happy family...:hug: _*sigh*_


No, because the ants would be up in arms about how showing anteaters in such a way is being insensitive to the plight of ants and making fun of one of the greatest threats to their life and livelihood.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> so it's like the florida equivalent of Carolina squirrel stew. cool.


We eat squirrels down here too..... Not much we won't eat.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> scorpions are goooood too. they taste like shrimp basically..just crunchier.


That sounds awesome. I would just have to have mine breaded to conceal it's form, or pulled apart or something, though, as I'm arachnophobic, lol!


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Never had gator tail? Sad.... I don't cook it like they do in restaraunts though.


I've never eaten reptile of any kind. I'd like to someday, just to try it. I enjoy trying new foods. =)
As long as it tastes good, I don't care what it is, honestly!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Pai said:


> I've never eaten reptile of any kind. I'd like to someday, just to try it. I enjoy trying new foods. =)
> As long as it tastes good, I don't care what it is, honestly!


the tail is the best part. i like putting it in Gumbo. Makes me feel like im back in Nawleens before Katrina.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> The more you know *rainbow*


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Pai said:


> I've never eaten reptile of any kind. I'd like to someday, just to try it. I enjoy trying new foods. =)
> As long as it tastes good, I don't care what it is, honestly!


Gator.... Softshell Turtle (better than gator) snakes, frogs (amphibians actually) All good. Snakes are typically rattlesnakes - only kind we ever ate.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

They have gator at the State Fair here, it's quite good.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Nargle said:


> That sounds awesome. I would just have to have mine breaded to conceal it's form, or pulled apart or something, though, as I'm arachnophobic, lol!


i ate them stir fried with snap peas and teriyaki sauce. <3


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

sassafras said:


> They have gator at the State Fair here, it's quite good.


Move to Florida.... You can put in for the lottery to hunt. If you get drawn you get tags for two.

I got ripped this year.... I didn't get drawn. First year in a long time. I only applied for one area though. Next year I am going to put in for a bunch of areas. That way even if I don't pull for where I want to hunt, I should get drawn for another area.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

How do you hunt them? Can you shoot them or are their heads too hard?

ETA: And there are far too many large bugs in Florida for me to live there. *shudder*


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

This thread is why I LOVE DF and all of it's inhabitants.

I'm now going to go change my big girl panties and start wandering around the interstate with a flashlight looking for fresh armadillo to make for lunch tomorrow.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

sassafras said:


> How do you hunt them? Can you shoot them or are their heads too hard?
> 
> ETA: And there are far too many large bugs in Florida for me to live there. *shudder*


Several ways... But yes you shoot them. But not until you have them boat side.... I use a .44 magnum bang stick, because I feel it is safer in a boat at night. But if you hit them in the right spot they are not hard to kill. A .22 in the right spot will stop a 12 footer cold. Only problem is the right spot is about the size of a quarter, its dark, you have a REALLY TICKED OFF gator at boat side, and you are in a boat that is probably bouncing around. 

He we sort of fish for them..... Two ways.... We are not allowed to put out baited hooks in Florida. No set lines, no jug baits. We can try to sneak up on them with an electric motor, cast a heavy fishing pole with a weighted treble hook and try to snag them. Once one guy snags him, another guy gets a second hook on him. Then you fight him like a big fish. When you get him sort of close, most guys harpoon them for better control. (I don't if the price of hides is decent) get them to the side of the boat and pop them with a gun or bang stick. 
That works pretty well. But not for the big ones.

For the big ones..... We take a wooden peg about three inches long, tie it to a thin strong rope with some cable for a leader. I use crap trap line. Then you take a whole chicken that has been sitting out for a couple of days. I take a syringe and pump it full of air so it floats. Then you tie the rope around it, and put the pet inside it. 

Then let it drift out in the dark where a big one hangs out. (The big ones are territorial and you can scout them and figure out where they hunt and live) When the gator takes the chicken, you let him swallow it. The peg will keep it from coming back up when you start pulling him in. The reason for the peg instead of the hook, if the gator breaks off, the gator can digest the wooden peg and it won't harm him. A hook in the throat can kill him. Then same process, you get him to the boat and pop him.



pittsabowawa said:


> This thread is why I LOVE DF and all of it's inhabitants.
> 
> I'm now going to go change my big girl panties and start wandering around the interstate with a flashlight looking for fresh armadillo to make for lunch tomorrow.


Hey its only messed up on the side that got hit by the car. The other side is fine to eat.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Xeph said:


> You know what I like? Turtles. Turtles and anteaters. YO CP! Can we get some anteaters here? Preferably ones wearing sweaters!


http://media.onsugar.com/files/upl1/5/50140/50_2008/image_13.jpg

Linked the image because there is a serious curse word in it. Mod delete or pm me if it's inappropriate.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

> I take a syringe and pump it full of air so it floats. Then you tie the rope around it, and put the pet inside it.


OMG, I laughed at that typo. You're gonna make people think you're a monster, lol! "OMG HE FISHES FOR GATERS WITH PETS!"


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> http://media.onsugar.com/files/upl1/5/50140/50_2008/image_13.jpg
> 
> Linked the image because there is a serious curse word in it. Mod delete or pm me if it's inappropriate.


love it. that's my new desktop as of now.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Pai said:


> OMG, I laughed at that typo. You're gonna make people think you're a monster, lol!


Oops... I meant Peg....


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## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

NomNomNomNomNom 










And here, just to make everyone feel better, the goblin shark from earlier


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## Horseshoe (Nov 10, 2010)

Wow that is a crazy lookin shark!!


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

My father once told me to think od dead armadillos so that I would actually smile for a hs yearbook photo. Dunno why but it worked...


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

BTW....... Down here we call Armalllos..... Possum on the half shell.....

But Armadillo is MUCH better than Possum.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Xeph said:


> Don't hold the armadillo too closely. They're abrasive.


And they can carry leprosy.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Pai said:


> You should watch Bizarre Foods, that guy ate Amradillo one episode. I've been introduced to more strange cuisine watching that show than I ever dreamed!


I can't watch.  I have a really soft stomach and even someone else eating things that I wouldn't eat on TV would make me throw up.



JohnnyBandit said:


> They are very good. Some folks worry about messing with them because they supposedly can carry leprosy (sp?).
> 
> But I have never had an issue or every heard of anyone getting it from armadillos.


I've heard that, too, but I vaguely recall something about leprosy not being the awful thing we all think it is. Like, you are not going to suddenly rot to death.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Nargle said:


> Mdawn, would you care to pour me a glass of whatever you're drinking tonight? LOL!


Actually, I wasn't drinking. lol I wish I had been though. Actually, I wish I was drinking right now....


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> Actually, I wasn't drinking. lol I wish I had been though. Actually, I wish I was drinking right now....


Me too... but probably for different reasons.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

pittsabowawa said:


> Me too... but probably for different reasons.


Wait...we have to have _reasons_ now...??? j/k lol


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> Wait...we have to have _reasons_ now...??? j/k lol


LOL.. only so I have something to tell my roommate when there's none to share hahaha.

Reasons.. finals, work, family, Tuesday, dogs, traffic, Friday, any federally recognized holiday, any holiday listed on the calendar (yay grandparent's appreciation day!!), because I dropped my gum... ya know.. important stuff LOL


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

You gotta raise a glass in tribute to the grandparents! 

Administrative Professionals Day too... I like that one. It's very important that we have a few drinks in celebration...:rockon:


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