# Innova discontinued! Help with replacement for 2 households please



## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Just saw Innova has been discontinued! EEK! 

Any replacement suggestions for 2 households - one used the Small bites & weight management dry adult Innova, the other Adult large breed Innova..want to keep them as similar as possible.

1 is a 7yo lab and the other a 13yo cocker spaniel who needs a smaller size kibble

Thanks


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

I can't speak of how similar this would be but Annamaet has smallish kibble, they have formulas in a couple of protein percentages. I don't believe you need a large breed dog food once a puppy isn't a puppy. Annamaet also has their Lean formula that is low fat. Another good food is Dr Tims; not sure how small their kibble is.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Merrick Classics, Dr Tims, Wellness Superfive, Canidae all life stages, solid gold..... I prefer Dr Tims but that's just me. Canidae would probably be a good choice for you as its readily available at Petco and it's a very similar and good dog food to Innova.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

CockerspanielLove said:


> Just saw Innova has been discontinued! EEK!
> 
> Any replacement suggestions for 2 households - one used the Small bites & weight management dry adult Innova, the other Adult large breed Innova..want to keep them as similar as possible.
> 
> ...


Any objections with just switching to California naturals, made by same company? That might be the easiest.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks guys! I think I want to stay away from Natura entirely...so it's down to:

Wellness
TOTW
Canidae
Solid Gold
Orijen

Im going to compare nutrition old to new today and look to see who has small bites.

Is it true adult dogs do not need large breed versions? My sisters lab has used it for 5 years or so, she is 7.

Thanks!


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

I was thinking about this for her lab...a bit more protien than before but not as much as ones like Evo etc. Otherwise pretty similar.

http://www.chewy.com/dog/wellness-core-grain-free-large-breed/dp/54100


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## MarieLovesChis (Mar 21, 2014)

Wellness is a decent brand. Another option would be Acana, since I see you have Orijen on your list. Protein ranges from 31%-33%. The Acana Singles are 27% protein and I think 15% fat. This one works great for my older not so active dog.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks! I am seeing that Orijen, SG and similar are double the price of Wellness! Would you consider Wellness to be a lot lower than the others on my list? TOTW seems to be the least but didn't get quite as good reviews etc.


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## MarieLovesChis (Mar 21, 2014)

No, I think Wellness is a good food! My dog simply doesn't like it and the kibble was a bit too dense for her, so it just didn't work out for her personally. I have nothing against the food though. I would feel slightly even more comfortable feeding it now that they supposedly stopped using Diamond to make their food.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

Fromm Gold or Four Star (several from which to choose) and I also like Precise Naturals. I even am pretty pleased with Ideal Balance  Works really well for one of my dogs when nothing else would.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks everyone! So, went through all of the brands and looks like out of this list only that Wellness Core comes in the large breed and grain free. The others were one or the other (unless I'm missing something.)

Question - her lab gets about 3 days of 45 mins running at the park a week, but other wise is not overly active (running in the yard a bit a few times a day, but lots of relaxing  Is 34% protein too much? 

For my 20lb spaniel I will look further since she doesn't need large breed of course  She is 13, and I know senior foods are just marketing but I should be looking for slightly less fat and protein right?


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## MarieLovesChis (Mar 21, 2014)

34% protein is just fine. High protein is not a problem unless the dog just can't handle it. Some dogs do better on high protein, some do better on lower protein. There's no one size fits all. Studies are showing that senior dogs should actually eat more protein though as they don't utilize it as well. My couch potato has done fine on 38% protein foods, though when it comes to dry food I stick to around 30% and use moisture rich foods higher in protein, like raw or canned. Just my preference as I don't feel comfortable feeding tons of dry protein.

A senior food is definitely not necessary, nor is a large breed food. Any food formulated for all life stages is fine.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks, that is very helpful! Everything I google says something different  She wanted the large breed more for the size of the kibble (not as big with most other formulas) but since you are saying the 34% is cool then that's what I will get her  It has some great reviews and a high mark on the dfa so I think that will work well. Should there be any issue switching from the old regular one to the new grain free one? Her lab has a stomach of STEEL so I think she should be ok 

My 13yo just went blind in one eye from glaucoma - is there any food geared toward eye health by any chance?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Wellness Core is the one food my dogs really don't like eating. I think because the kibble size is very large and dense (as someone mentioned). I am not sure completely why but the papillons don't find it very palatable at all.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

I think a number of their versions are geared towards medium/larger dogs, so larger kibble (her lab is nearly 70lbs with jaws of steel, so it's great for her but my spaniel is a lil 20 pounds and delicate so she is definitely getting something else


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

I tried Wellness puppy on Zoey when we first adopted her ... She wouldn't eat it, I see she's not alone! 

I thought with being in shelters or rescues I would give her some "good" food, after 2 days of her being with us and not eating it I bought her Orijen and she scarfed that down. 

Hopefully Wellness works for you!


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Ahh - just goes to show how different our pets are (and I guess people are the same 

So it sounds like for her lab that inhales anything and everything this would work, but NOT for my picky high maintenance spaniel!

I was thinking about one of the Solid Gold versions for her - they look very "meat" like so may entice her! Like this one:

https://www.solidgoldpet.com/products/wolf-king

I'm just wondering about the size of the kibbble, at 20lbs and picky she will only really eat the smaller one. 

Think if I email SG they willi send some samples?


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## MarieLovesChis (Mar 21, 2014)

It certainly doesn't hurt to ask! I've gotten A LOT of samples from various companies when I was searching for a food that would work for my dog. I find most companies are happy to send some out. Also, Solid Gold makes a flavor called "Wee Bits" I think, which is supposed to be tiny kibble. I think it uses Bison for the meat too. Just another option if the other flavors are too big.

I know Nature's Variety, Earthborn, Lotus, Nature's Logic, Annamaet, Taste of the Wild, and Dr. Tims are all companies I've asked for samples from in the past and they all sent some  I went on a huge hunt for a food my picky girl would eat.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

I saw the wee bits, but it said "for dogs with higher activity levels" which is NOT her lol  and fat was too high for her vision problem (higher = worse for eye problems) But they have 4 or 5 other variations for moderate activity with a lot less fat, so those may actually be good. I am going to email them now and ask what they recommend with a smaller size and a little less fat.

I started putting a little water and microwaving her food for 20 second and that totally helps!!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I like earthborn holistic, but the kibbles are more "average". Pro Pac makes a small bites I believe, as does 4health (tractor supply's brand) a good place to start is www.dogfoodadvisor.com though the guy who has the site is a dentist (human) it is a good starting point for research.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks yes I have used that site for many years, tons of info but I think best when you have some brands/types in mind already and want to compare  Very different than real people's personal experiences and tips, especially when you have specific requirements. I wish they put photos of the kibbles on there, that would be great!

Anyway waiting on samples from Solid Gold and will see which she likes!


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

I had really good results with Wellness Core, but it just got to be too expensive. I switched to TOTW which I feel is similar in quality, but WAY less expensive (especially if you buy at Tractor Supply, which is a lot cheaper than pet stores!). My dog loves it too, and I like that I can switch up flavors sometimes.


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## CockerspanielLove (Mar 18, 2010)

Hmm, in comparing the top 3 or 4 they all seemed to be the same - 2 others were noticeably higher (like $70-$85 a bag when the others were $45-$55) The Core I sent my sister is $55 which is exactly the same as the old Innova, just 4lbs less in a bag. Of course that is above the mid range pricing of $35 ish to start...I will look at TOTW again, I forgot why I had ruled them out


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CockerspanielLove said:


> Hmm, in comparing the top 3 or 4 they all seemed to be the same - 2 others were noticeably higher (like $70-$85 a bag when the others were $45-$55) The Core I sent my sister is $55 which is exactly the same as the old Innova, just 4lbs less in a bag. Of course that is above the mid range pricing of $35 ish to start...I will look at TOTW again, I forgot why I had ruled them out


TOTW is made by diamond, so if that doesnt bother you, than its an ok food. I would still be feeding it if my dogs didnt decide they didnt like it, though I dont like how they use combos of basically the same proteins in all of their formulas, it makes it hard to rotate. The only one of their formulas that would be "new" to them is the fish one and none of mine like fish haha


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

I thought it was Blue Buffalo that was a bigger problem than Diamond? Maybe I'm mixed up. Geez, it's so hard to keep up with this stuff sometimes... and the dog food industry being so incestuous doesn't help much either. It's hard to know exactly what you're getting without doing tons of research, and even then there is so much conflicting information out there. And it's also very difficult to find affordable, high quality kibble that has NEVER had a recall! I originally started using TOTW when switching from Wellness Core based on the reviews and some things I read that said they were an independent manufacturer - and when I found out otherwise, I had already been feeding it successfully for a few months so I just rolled with it! I did have a problem a few months ago with a particular bag, and my dog was not eating normally and had diarrhea (I believe I posted here about it somewhere). I kept the food though, and recently fed her some as an emergency back-up when I realized I was out. No problems whatsoever, so I'm thinking that it wasn't the food at that time but perhaps something else.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

TGKvr said:


> I thought it was Blue Buffalo that was a bigger problem than Diamond? Maybe I'm mixed up. Geez, it's so hard to keep up with this stuff sometimes... and the dog food industry being so incestuous doesn't help much either. It's hard to know exactly what you're getting without doing tons of research, and even then there is so much conflicting information out there. And it's also very difficult to find affordable, high quality kibble that has NEVER had a recall! I originally started using TOTW when switching from Wellness Core based on the reviews and some things I read that said they were an independent manufacturer - and when I found out otherwise, I had already been feeding it successfully for a few months so I just rolled with it! I did have a problem a few months ago with a particular bag, and my dog was not eating normally and had diarrhea (I believe I posted here about it somewhere). I kept the food though, and recently fed her some as an emergency back-up when I realized I was out. No problems whatsoever, so I'm thinking that it wasn't the food at that time but perhaps something else.


Both are about the same LOL

MARS inc owns blue buffalo, greenies and a bunch of others.
Diamond owns TOTW, diamond, and some of TSCs 4 health is made at their facilities.

Nestle/purina owns now Merrick / castor and pollux (since merrick owns THEM) 

Below is a graphic that might help you (hope it comes up!) You know what really sucks? is most of those foods used to be independant 10-15 years ago


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

I didn't realize blue was owned by MARS
MARS.

Anyway there's Fromm, Dr Tims, Farmina and Annamaet that are independent; there may be others. I believe Farmina packages their own foid and Ohio packages Annamaet and Dr Tims, I don't know about Fromm. I also believe that all of them have not een recalled. Of course being cynical I suspect when any of those become a threat to the big 4 then they will be bought out, but for now they are by themselves.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

natures variety, earthborn holistic, Pro Pac (I believe), Orjin, Acana, Victor, and Wellness I believe are still independently owned.

My goodness ... if dog food companies keep selling out like this I might be making my own LOL


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## Jennet19 (Feb 8, 2010)

I have tried wellness before and it seems to be too hard- my older dog couldn't even chew it. They are doing away with California natural too.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

Jennet19 said:


> I have tried wellness before and it seems to be too hard- my older dog couldn't even chew it. They are doing away with California natural too.


Where did you hear this? I tried to find anything about CN being discontinued online and no luck.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

TGKvr said:


> I had really good results with Wellness Core, but it just got to be too expensive. I switched to TOTW which I feel is similar in quality, but WAY less expensive (especially if you buy at Tractor Supply, which is a lot cheaper than pet stores!). My dog loves it too, and I like that I can switch up flavors sometimes.


Right?! WTF, wellness?! It is a good food but Geez! The price to feed that even for our two dogs who dont eat that much would kill us!


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## DogTheGreat (Jul 9, 2015)

I feed Fromm Four Star- Grain Free. Fromm is a great company, imo, and has never been recalled. The four star lines were designed with rotation in mind. Their grain frees (not sure if all) have very small kibble sizes, but I'm not sure about their grain inclusive options.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

DogTheGreat said:


> I feed Fromm Four Star- Grain Free. Fromm is a great company, imo, and has never been recalled. The four star lines were designed with rotation in mind. Their grain frees (not sure if all) have very small kibble sizes, but I'm not sure about their grain inclusive options.


Fromm is a bit pricy down here as well. I am really liking the pro pac ultimates so far, and both dogs really love it. Of course I just started to switch them over, so as it goes I will update their progress.


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## Estes Kefauver (Sep 2, 2015)

*Fascist, Capitalistic, Dictatorial Regimes ... ALL of them!!!*

Since +/- 1998 to just lately, when my fascist, capitalistic, dictatorial boss sold his company, I worked for a midwest distributor of +/- 50 dog foods. _(I do still like the guy though.)_ At the time _(1998)_, and for a good long time after, _Innova_ was considered probably the best food made. _California Natural L/R_ was called, by a well known no-advertisement magazine, the best L/R food made. Go figure. Anyway ... I just found out today the bad news about _Innova_. For the first time I can remember, for a very long time, I had to actually buy food at a store. WOW. It was an experience. Well I have been out of the business for about a year. I then ripped into the _Mars_ customer service department for about 20-minutes. Nothing was said about _CalNat_ being cut. I bought _CalNat L/R WM_. $46.10 otd. w/ a $5-coupon.

_NO, I do not now nor have I ever worked forNatura Pet Products_. 

As for other foods ... _YES_ ... everyone has an opinion ... and _YES_ ... there are many different, and sometimes conflicting stories. Let me know if you're looking for long-winded conversation and I'll be happy to converse with you. 

There are two(2) ideas I've read in this thread that concern me. One(1) really big manufacturer named has been hit with the most recalls of all. Not just because they produce a lot, but because they produce as cheaply as they possibly can. One(1) food named is supplied by a _marketing company_. They don't produce _anything_. They just send out their specs, and the cheapest bidder gets the contract. 

I hope that in my first real post I don't sound like an idiot. During the winter of 1990/91 I almost killed my dog by feeding him really bad food. I'm also North of $9,000 in stone surgeries. I was never in the dog-food business to make money _(I never really did)_. I was/am only interested in feeding my dog(s) as best as I can.


Estes​


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Estes Kefauver said:


> *Fascist, Capitalistic, Dictatorial Regimes ... ALL of them!!!*
> 
> Since +/- 1998 to just lately, when my fascist, capitalistic, dictatorial boss sold his company, I worked for a midwest distributor of +/- 50 dog foods. _(I do still like the guy though.)_ At the time _(1998)_, and for a good long time after, _Innova_ was considered probably the best food made. _California Natural L/R_ was called, by a well known no-advertisement magazine, the best L/R food made. Go figure. Anyway ... I just found out today the bad news about _Innova_. For the first time I can remember, for a very long time, I had to actually buy food at a store. WOW. It was an experience. Well I have been out of the business for about a year. I then ripped into the _Mars_ customer service department for about 20-minutes. Nothing was said about _CalNat_ being cut. I bought _CalNat L/R WM_. $46.10 otd. w/ a $5-coupon.
> 
> ...


I know! I still cant believe Merrick sold to nestlie purina ... I just ... cant   so much sad, and our dogs did so well on their food, I was also excited to try their new raw infused "backcountry" for our other hard keeper dog. But alas, I cannot  So we are playing around with Pro Pac now and am almost ready to buy a new bag (we got a small one first to see how they did on it) and other than my young dog dropping a bit of weight because the pro pac is about 365 cals/cup and earthborn holistic is 440 I think, he is doing well on it! His poop is actually better then it has been on other higher calorie foods with higher meat content; I think that his system cant handle all the protein.


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