# AnStaff vs. Pit Bull



## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

I admit.... I can't really tell the difference!

I'm hoping to get some breed enthusiasts point out the differences in temperament, look, purpose etc. It seems there are all kinds of them in shelters but in all kinds of mixes so I can't tell whats what. I suspect I'm not the only one who has difficulty telling the two apart.... I'll post a few pictures here so we can have a guessing game to make it fun!


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## WTFCas (Jan 20, 2012)

The first two pics look like your generic "pit bull", the last four all look to be AmStaffs.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

To the general public and to me, they are relatively the same dog. On a basic level at least. I see a lot of rescues in my area label pit bull type dogs as AmStaffs to avoid a bad rap. AmStaffs are technically a dog breed recognized by the AKC. Pit bulls are recognized by the UKC. I know there _are_ differences, I just don't know them!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Actually the third is an ADBA/UKC registered American Pit Bull Terrier from Caragan Kennels. That one I know for sure.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I LIKE that third one. He's gorgeous.

Well, they're all good-looking but I like his build best.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

AmStaffs are typcially a bit stockier than APBTs and usually weigh more. AmStaff aren't generally as athletic as APBT.

AmStaff are also typcially "softer" than APBTs are and aren't meant to have any of the dog aggressiveness that (unfortunately) many APBT breeders make a point of breeding in their programs.

That all of course are generalizations. I'm sure there are DA AmStaffs out there, but it's not accepted or expected as it is in APBTs.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Ok, Honestly: THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE! There I said it (Lots of the APBT/Amstaff community will debate until they are blue in the face about this). Unless you are looking deep into the pedigree there is no real difference between an APBT and an Amstaff. Most APBT's have some sort of Amstaff blood and most Amstaffs have been line bred so much that they really don't have much APBT blood in them. As long as a APBT can walk into a ADBA ring and win their Championship, then go to a UKC and win their Championship, then go to the AKC and win their championship there is no difference in the breed. Should it be this way? NO! There is no reason why you should be able to have a UKC/AKC CH on the same dog. They SHOULD be two totally different breeds but they aren't.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Darkmoon said:


> Ok, Honestly: THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE! There I said it (Lots of the APBT/Amstaff community will debate until they are blue in the face about this).


 What?!

How controversial! Well, that may help explain why I can't figure out the difference. Even almighty Google seems to spit out THE SAME DOGS when I search for Pitbull and AmStaff. My favorite builds are the first one and the third one, although they are all beautiful dogs. The second and the fifth stick out to me and at first glance I would guess those are AmStaff and the rest are Pit Bull. I'll leave you all hanging on the answers for a bit though so we can get more guesses!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

When it boils down to it, they are the same breed. They came from the same place.


The old timers used to say Am Staffs are for show and the APBTs are for Go!


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## Chief502 (Dec 3, 2012)

I've been reading that APBTs and AmStaffs are basically the same dog, but AmStaff was just a fancy term for a "show pit bull". I see some difference in that one breed is stockier then the other, but that's about it. They both get bad reps because they are Bully breeds. It's unfortunate, but you can't help what idiot people have done to tarnish the breed. I have a Bull Terrier myself and he's the most well behaved dog I've EVER had and I love him to bits.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

RabbleFox said:


> To the general public and to me, they are relatively the same dog. On a basic level at least.* I see a lot of rescues in my area label pit bull type dogs as AmStaffs to avoid a bad rap*. AmStaffs are technically a dog breed recognized by the AKC. Pit bulls are recognized by the UKC. I know there _are_ differences, I just don't know them!


Our shelter does this too, I believe. Never seen a dog labeled as 'Pit Bull' but TONS as 'AmStaff'. Sometimes people just can't get past the label to what would otherwise be a great dog for them, unfortunately.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

They don't do that here just because there are so many pits in Montreal lol.

I have never heard of AmStaffs being more dog friendly. In terms of temperament I have never seen a difference. I always thought that AmStaffs were stubbier, and pits a little leaner and more athletic, but I don't think there's much of a difference


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

It's very similar to the difference between the look of a working Border Collie and a show Border Collie. American Staffordshire terriers belong in the show ring and American Pit Bull Terriers belong in the working world, and therefore are usually much more gamey. Most Am Staff breeders I know ARE breeding very far away from Dog Aggressive traits (the breeder I'll be going to has not had an issue with ANY of her dogs) whereas Pit Bull people are breeding in more game and tenacity.

Add in Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Bullies, and you can almost never tell the difference in breeds from a shelter Pit Bull. They're just a Pit... probably a mix of each technical breed. A well bred dog is easier to see differences in, most definitely, but it can still be hard with each of the 4 breeds being SO similar.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

Stole this from another thread:: http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/138434-show-us-different-types-2.html

look for Tainted's posts..

Seems to me the only real difference is Size, What bloodlines they come from and what purpose they are being bred for... Conformation Show ring or Working Show ring.....


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Interesting. So the consensus seems to be there is no real difference. I find that really surprising!

I like JohnnyBandits saying 'AmStaffs for show, Pit bulls for go.' 

So now I'll reveal the answers. According to Google (and keep in mind Google seems a bit confused on the issue).... The first three are Pitbull Terriers and the last three are American Staffordshire Terriers. Maybe cshellenberger will chime in, I know she was thinking about breeding pits...

EDIT: Wow.... that thread is a really good read and Tainted has some great examples of the differences, I think I'll cross-post them here


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

Well from a observation stand point and meeting quite a bit of them. Pits will usually have a softer look to them, less muscle mass than a Amer Staff but then there's always the one and two breeders who step outside that and breed them to be bigger, more muscular, more stocky. But pits tend to be quite soft, like the first one. Beautiful dogs. Personally I have no issue against either but I would be more likely to get a pit than a Staff just because they have such a sweet disposition and were once called "Nanny dogs". Though in dog breeds overall i must say I stick to more 'intelligent', one person breeds. And I like fine features, hence my pap.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

As most people have already pointed out, they're one in the same. I think people just like to say Amstaff, so other people petting the dog won't become afraid. As for the American Stafforshire Terriers you mentioned, they're smaller. They look almost the same, but are smaller in size and they look almost, to me when I see them in books, like the way a bulldog stands.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> As most people have already pointed out, they're one in the same. I think people just like to say Amstaff, so other people petting the dog won't become afraid. As for the American Stafforshire Terriers you mentioned, they're smaller. They look almost the same, but are smaller in size and they look almost, to me when I see them in books, like the way a bulldog stands.


You do know that AmStaff is an abbreviation, or shortened version, of American Staffordshire Terrier, right?


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Cross Post from Tainted.....


> ADBA APBT:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mrsahunter86 (Feb 6, 2013)

I never realized there was such a difference in the am bullies till recently. I love the standards and the XL but not a fan of the pockets, they just look too short and huge, not quite as proportionate. With bully breeds in general I usually like them on the bigger size, our last pit mix was about 70 pounds.. He was tall with a huge head and big chest. I do think the bullies are by far the cutest as puppies though, all short and tiny and stocky lol
Like others said, the apbt are usually for working and the staffs are more for show and less likely to be dog aggressive than apbt


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

aiw said:


> Cross Post from Tainted.....


I Posted a link to that thread earlier....LOL!!!!


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

RedGermanPinscher said:


> I Posted a link to that thread earlier....LOL!!!!


Yup. Thats where I got it from!

Credit to RedGermanPinscher for pointing me in the direction.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

aiw said:


> Yup. Thats where I got it from!
> 
> Credit to RedGermanPinscher for pointing me in the direction.


No need to give credit... lol... Didn't realize you were the one that posted it and was it was suppose to say great minds think alike.. :wink: after the LOL!!! (stupid phone)

Oh and let's not forget the Staffordshire Bull Terrier:


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

There are so many variations of APBT now too. 

you have the razors edge Bully style









You have the more common look evenly proportioned look.









The standard look

















there are a lot of variations of the APBT.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

DJEtzel--you wrote: You do know that AmStaff is an abbreviation, or shortened version, of American Staffordshire Terrier, right? 
^Yes I do, I'm not stupid. As you can tell I obviously made a mistake and meant to say the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier. 

And I like I was saying about them they have this stout stance about them and are smaller than the Amstaff.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

For me it is the difference of the length of the ear crop. Pit bulls battle crop or the short crop. Am staffs longer crop and DO NOT call an Am Staff a pit bull in front of the owners. Big no, no to the owners. To me calling a dog an Am staff instead of a pit bull is ok in my books, especially if it will save the life of the dog.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> DJEtzel--you wrote: You do know that AmStaff is an abbreviation, or shortened version, of American Staffordshire Terrier, right?
> ^Yes I do, I'm not stupid. As you can tell I obviously made a mistake and meant to say the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
> 
> And I like I was saying about them they have this stout stance about them and are smaller than the Amstaff.


Uh.. No, I couldn't tell if you were making a mistake or thought they were two separate breeds... But as for your self-proclaimed "not stupid" in instant defense... 

There is no such breed as an American Staffordshire Bull Terrier. :/ So I'm still not sure what breeds you are getting mixed up.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

Honestly, I have to wonder how many of the people who insist they are the same breed have actually met show quality APBTs and AmStaffs in person, because they're not that interchangeable. If someone didn't know anything about dogs I can see how they could look at pictures and possibly not be able to tell the difference, but the differences are immediately apparent when you meet them.

As far as "variations" of APBT; the only "variation" is the one that fits the standard. Anything else isn't an APBT.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

TorachiKatashi said:


> Honestly, I have to wonder how many of the people who insist they are the same breed have actually met show quality APBTs and AmStaffs in person, because they're not that interchangeable. If someone didn't know anything about dogs I can see how they could look at pictures and possibly not be able to tell the difference, but the differences are immediately apparent when you meet them.
> 
> As far as "variations" of APBT; the only "variation" is the one that fits the standard. Anything else isn't an APBT.


Are you very experienced in the APBT, AmStaff or AmBully world? Maybe you could elaborate on the differences and help point them out in the photos for those of us who aren't. There does seem to be quite a bit of variation in the style of dogs posted above, so which one would you say is the "real" or "right" one?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

TorachiKatashi said:


> Honestly, I have to wonder how many of the people who insist they are the same breed have actually met show quality APBTs and AmStaffs in person, because they're not that interchangeable. If someone didn't know anything about dogs I can see how they could look at pictures and possibly not be able to tell the difference, but the differences are immediately apparent when you meet them.
> 
> As far as "variations" of APBT; the only "variation" is the one that fits the standard. Anything else isn't an APBT.


I've met show dogs from each breed. There aren't many show APBT that aren't working as well. There are a ton of variations in different lines, show vs. working, and venue. I mean, just recently all these big gamey lines turned into American Bullies. And half are being resgistered as such and half are still being resgistered as APBT. And the AmStaffs are just dulled down APBTs that don't work and have less game in them.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> Uh.. No, I couldn't tell if you were making a mistake or thought they were two separate breeds... But as for your self-proclaimed "not stupid" in instant defense...
> 
> There is no such breed as an American Staffordshire Bull Terrier. :/ So I'm still not sure what breeds you are getting mixed up.


may be the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier??


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

RedGermanPinscher said:


> may be the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier??


 Probably thats the confusion. The names are very close.

You know what? I hadn't even realized that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the English Bull Terrier were different breeds. I just thought the "Target" dogs were simply Bull Terriers. So you're right, there is another level of intricacy. Truthfully, I may never spend the time to really sort it all out. I really like the APBT/AmStaff/AmBully/SBT dogs that I've met in shelters but I'm unlikely to adopt one from a breeder. After I get more experience I would like to own one, but then I will have the benefit of evaluating the dog as an individual and his specific breed mix matters less. It will definitely be a young adult I adopt too since I would want to evaluate for DA. This is all in the future though.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

TorachiKatashi said:


> Honestly, I have to wonder how many of the people who insist they are the same breed have actually met show quality APBTs and AmStaffs in person, because they're not that interchangeable. If someone didn't know anything about dogs I can see how they could look at pictures and possibly not be able to tell the difference, but the differences are immediately apparent when you meet them.
> 
> As far as "variations" of APBT; the only "variation" is the one that fits the standard. Anything else isn't an APBT.


Been to multiple shows including multiple UKC APBT specialty shows, UKC APBT shows, ect. I can pick apart an APBT structure pretty darn well. Yes I can spot a APBT and a Pitterstaff and an Amstaff without issues. I can spot a heavy Gaff Amstaff in a sea of Wannabe Amstaff/APBTs. I can normally spot a Lar-san Pitterstaff, and I can normally spot a dog that is heavy in some of the more popular studs right now. I actually enjoy picking apart APBT Pedgrees. So yes I DO know what I'm talking about. 

I was unable to attend the last UKC APBT speciality but saw the photo line up of Ch and GrCh and it was wall to wall Amstaff/Pitterstaffs. Dogs that could walk into the AKC ring and win just as easily as the UKC ring. The line has become very blurred as to what is an APBT and what is an Amstaff in the UKC/AKC world. Now ADBA is a whole other thing, but even then there are dogs where if they bulked up about 10 lbs could walk into an AKC ring and win. It has a lot to do with conditioning. As long as you can have ADBA/UKC/AKC Champions or Grand Champions they are all the same breed with a very similar look. A TRAINED eye can spot the difference but someone who isn't I don't blame them for not seeing the difference because sometimes it's not as plain as day.








The first two dogs are APBT, the third dog is an Amstaff. 

This is an American Bully


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I could see where people could not tell the difference if their education comes from petfinders. http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search?animal_type=Dog&pet_breed=American Staffordshire Terrier Do not see Amstaff and most definately do not see Great Pyrenees in that dog. According to that site about 5700 Amstaffs are looking for a home. Just over 20,000 pitbulls are looking for a home. As you can see by looking at the different dogs on that site what most people see on the streets the wide variations of body build on the dogs. Going to different shows where people breed to standards would be easy to tell apart but, in the general public breeding home not so much.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

luv mi pets said:


> I could see where people could not tell the difference if their education comes from petfinders. http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search?animal_type=Dog&pet_breed=American Staffordshire Terrier Do not see Amstaff and most definately do not see Great Pyrenees in that dog. According to that site about 5700 Amstaffs are looking for a home. Just over 20,000 pitbulls are looking for a home. As you can see by looking at the different dogs on that site what most people see on the streets the wide variations of body build on the dogs. Going to different shows where people breed to standards would be easy to tell apart but, in the general public breeding home not so much.


Well that's petfinder, there are plenty of dogs on there misidentified. I saw a dog today listed as a purebred Finnish Spitz, and the dog was completely solid white.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Well that's petfinder, there are plenty of dogs on there misidentified. I saw a dog today listed as a purebred Finnish Spitz, and the dog was completely solid white.



Yes and I am sure you have seen pet quality bred weimaraners that do not even look like what one would find in the show ring and that was the point I was making. What ones sees out in the street, shelters or even newspapers ads is not what one would find in the show ring.


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## SheltieQuirks (Dec 1, 2011)

This thread is so interesting to me  Loving all the pictures, these breeds just have something so visually appealing to me.

The one somewhat related/associated breed I can always pick out now is the Staffie Bull, as it's got quite a stout, small, "rounded" look to it compared to the others. I wasn't aware, until I met a number of them, that Staffie Bulls are so vastly different to AmStaffs and APBT - to me they were all kinda lumped together as one "type" with bullies, but now that I've met a number of different individuals, I don't understand how I couldn't differentiate. They're like the pocket version of pitbulls and AmStaffs, in a way.




























They're absolutely everywhere in England. I probably met more Staffordshire Bull Terriers than I did all other breeds combined the last time I was in England. They were all very sweet, but not as "OMG I need to love you NOW" as the pit bulls I've met. I did meet a few leggier individuals in England that were very obviously some sort of pit or AmStaff mix, but their owners steadfastly called them Staffie Bulls anyway, because the Staffies are seen as the friendlier dog and aren't as subject to BSL.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

SheltieQuirks said:


> They're absolutely everywhere in England. I probably met more Staffordshire Bull Terriers than I did all other breeds combined the last time I was in England. They were all very sweet, but not as "OMG I need to love you NOW" as the pit bulls I've met. I did meet a few leggier individuals in England that were very obviously some sort of pit or AmStaff mix, but their owners steadfastly called them Staffie Bulls anyway, because the Staffies are seen as the friendlier dog and aren't as subject to BSL.


Staffy Bulls are wonderful, compact, short, stout dogs who I just love! Thought my dog Peanut was going to end up being a Staffy Mix but she ended up as a normal, BYB Pit. Staffys get a max of about 40-45lbs for the males. Love them!


Here's a side by side comparison of Ch and Grand CH dogs from 2008. REMEMBER: ADBA AND UKC are BOTH American Pit Bull Terriers, while AKC is American Stafforshire Terrier. It's a rather LARGE photo sorry 








OR: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...7_300465193305998_687241964_n_zps75f7752e.jpg


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

It is my understanding that the only reason American Staffordshire Terriers are called as such is because, when the American Pitbull terrier originally wanted to become recognized by the AKC, The AKC did not want to be associated with the name "Pitbull" therefore re-named the breed The American Staffordshire Terrier.. It is also my understanding that the same dog can be Dual registered with the AKC and the UKC.. Under the UKC it would be recognized as an American Pitbull Terrier while under the AKC it would be recognized as an American Staffordshire Terrier....

Not sure how the ADBA works though... I think I remember hearing that ADBA registered dogs are allowed to be registered with the UKC (regardless of which registry they where first with) but not the AKC unless they were first registered with the AKC then registered with the ADBA????


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

I just realized I wrote ANstaff in the title of this thread.... Can't edit those things dammit!


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

RedGermanPinscher said:


> It is my understanding that the only reason American Staffordshire Terriers are called as such is because, when the American Pitbull terrier originally wanted to become recognized by the AKC, The AKC did not want to be associated with the name "Pitbull" therefore re-named the breed The American Staffordshire Terrier..


Correct from my understanding



> It is also my understanding that the same dog can be Dual registered with the AKC and the UKC.. Under the UKC it would be recognized as an American Pitbull Terrier while under the AKC it would be recognized as an American Staffordshire Terrier....


NOT Anymore! Stud books have closed for a while now with the UKC. Although rumor (and it's not a rumor really, as it was said at nationals) has it (which this about makes me blow a gasket) they might be opening up the stud books again to AKC dogs only. Yeah... Don't get me started...



> Not sure how the ADBA works though... I think I remember hearing that ADBA registered dogs are allowed to be registered with the UKC (regardless of which registry they where first with) but not the AKC unless they were first registered with the AKC then registered with the ADBA????


Not sure 100%. I should really research it and find out the information for you. I know you can have an ADBA, UKC, and AKC registered dog. I know UKC and ADBA are pretty common in the breed. UKC and AKC is also pretty common. It's just a headache.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

I know Vader is part Bully because of his bloodlines/pedigree but his parents are registered as APBT ( UKC ) and he was suppose to be but I never sent in his paper work cause I really didn't care. 

its interesting to me. Some breeds have similar variations. Chihuahuas as an example because they are popularly bred there are so many looks to them. but not all of them meet the breed standards. Same with the pitbulls. but does that mean they are not true APBT just because they were bred to look a certain way over the generations? The breed carries a special personality. The sparkling eyes and the smiling mug. "The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life" and I know the UKC captures that in the way they describe the breed.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Fade said:


> its interesting to me. Some breeds have similar variations. Chihuahuas as an example because they are popularly bred there are so many looks to them. but not all of them meet the breed standards. Same with the pitbulls. but does that mean they are not true APBT just because they were bred to look a certain way over the generations? The breed carries a special personality. The sparkling eyes and the smiling mug. "The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life" and I know the UKC captures that in the way they describe the breed.


Yes and no. There is just a variety of looks in the breed. It's one of those breeds where you can have 5 Pits in a photo and not one even look close:








I know for a fact 3 out of 5 of these dogs comes with papers, but I know 4/5 are 100% pure bred APBTs and one is more then likely just a badly bred Pit. 
Left to right:
Peanut- Poorly bred most likly pure bred Pit
Lyric- Pure bred APBT
Ryker- Pure Bred APBT
Mika- Pure Bred APBT
Luna- Pure Bred APBT 

Ryker, Lyric, and Mika are all UKC Champions but all look different. It's just a good photo to look at the difference in the breed.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Darkmoon said:


> Yes and no. There is just a variety of looks in the breed. It's one of those breeds where you can have 5 Pits in a photo and not one even look close:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

That is really interesting! Mika is just adorable. See I would have taken her(?) as a mix because of the ears. The one in the middle is what I would label as my opinion of what a APBT should look like. but its such a huge difference!


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Fade said:


> That is really interesting! Mika is just adorable. See I would have taken her(?) as a mix because of the ears. The one in the middle is what I would label as my opinion of what a APBT should look like. but its such a huge difference!


Mika is a doll and yup, 100% pure bred. Every pup in that litter got those ears. I was actually offered her or her sister from the breeder but had to pass since it was really bad timing. The one in the middle (Ryker) is a fine dog. Love him to death. Hoping I'll be have to have my timing down where I get a pup from him in the future.


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