# Freaking out--Buyer's Remorse and Guilt



## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

Hey guys,

I'm new to dogforums.com and also to dog ownership! I'm a cat person. I grew up with cats, I got a cat in college and I've since gotten a second cat. I love cats. I love everything about them. BUT, I thought that was probably just because I grew up with them and never had a chance to become a dog person. I really like the idea of a dog. I like the idea of a walking companion, of a fetch companion, of a friend I can teach tricks to, etc. So, a year or so ago, I started researching dog breeds and general information on dogs. I decided on the Papillon. They're small, highly intelligent, have one instead of two coats so they're not supposed to shed a lot, are cute, and I was told they weren't yappers (the vet just told me otherwise...). 

I decided I didn't want a small puppy, so I found a breeder with a 9 month old pup she'd held back to show but decided not to. 

I got her Tuesday at noon.

She's just as adorable as in the pictures. And smaller than I thought. 

It's now Thursday. Tuesday went well. I kept her in the bathroom (with a baby gate up) and hung out with her for a few hours in there. Then I left her for a bit (half an hour or so), she was fine, then I took her for a walk around my neighborhood. I had a class at night, went to it, came back, and she was fine. Went to sleep, she was fine.
Wednesday, I was in class all day. Mistake, I know. By all day I mean I left at 7am and got home at 8:45pm. I left her in the bathroom, not in her crate, with a little food, lots of water, a dog bed, her crate (door unhinged) and her litter box (yes, she was litter box trained. supposedly, anyway. she's had two accidents since I got her.) When I came home, I immediately went to see her, hung out, and took her for a walk and put her back in the bathroom so I could go to bed. She started whining. I'd read the best remedy is to ignore them. So I did. I went to bed. Closed the bedroom door. She was still whining. After 10 minutes, though, she stopped! "Success!" I thought. Wrong. She started up again and whined on and off for the next two and a half hours. Wonderful! 

I got up at 12:30 and put her in her crate. After half an hour she shut up.
I got up at 8am, pet her, got my coffee ready,s he started whining. So I got dressed and took her for a walk and let her run around on a retractable leash. Came back, put her in the bathroom. She was whining. Okay... Called my mom, walked outside, and I COULD HEAR HER OUTSIDE MY APARTMENT! Through two walls! Not good! I rent in a condo community, so if I get complaints, I'll have to get rid of her.

I went to the vet today and he gave me anxiety meds for her and told me not to leave her alone for that long. I don't have a choice. I have an hour and fifteen minute break at lunch, but it takes me half an hour to get to school and another half hour to get back. 
I'm in law school. That's a LONG TIME not to be studying! 
I was told by the breeder I got her from that she'd be okay, but I don't thinks he will.

So here's the deal: I'm having buyer's remorse. I read a similar thread posted two years ago and I can sympathize with what the writer wrote and what the responses said, but I don't have the out of giving her to my parents. My parents live across the country from me. The two friends I have who live close by (a ten minute drive) and like dogs are both highly allergic to cats so they can't even come into my house. That's not an option. I'd say I can do the dogwalking thing but I have no income. I saved up money to buy her and have a good chunk of savings for any potential pet-related accidents as well as vet visits, food, etc. I havent' had a problem finanically with my cats, for instance, but I can't afford to pay someone daily to come. 

She's 9 months old, so I don't know if it'll get better. Will it?!
And am I doing something wrong?!
Am I just not a dog person?!

Law school started this week, so I'm also feeling anxious and worried about that, but it's my last year, so it's at least a little easier than first year was. 
So, combine anxiety about school with the stressed out feeling I get during finals--but due to this puppy!--and it's not a good combo! I'm also stressed because I wasn't able to sleep last night! I need sleep. I've learned that the hard way. If I don't sleep, I get cranky, but I also can't pay attention and information doens't sink in. That's not acceptable in law school.

So what should I do? Is there a routine I should get into? Is there something I should do for her?
I'm also afraid she's developing separation anxiety! 
On the one hand, I'm happy her tail has gone up since I got her and she wags her tail when she sees me, but I can't have a dog who whines and barks every time I leave! 
Today I'll be with her most of the day, and tomorrow morning I will, too. In teh afternoon I have a class though and have to go to a job interview and then told a friend I would hang out... If she barks the whole time I'm gone, I'm going to have serious issues with my housing situation as well... 

Any advice would be great... Please don't judge me for this. I feel ill, panicky, and anxious just at the thought of having her! I have lost my appetite, am tired, and feel both angry and resentful at her (not her directly, more at myself for having gotten her) and I also feel guilty because I don't think this is a good situation for her.

My only option is to send her back to the breeder...but the contract says I lose all my money (not insignificant!) and have to pay for her flight back... 

What should I do?


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## Sendiulino (Jun 20, 2011)

No judgment. Just sound advice:

Give the puppy back to the breeder. Your lifestyle, living arrangements, and mental health at the moment is not allowing you to have a dog as far as I'm concerned.

Consider it an unfortunate and expensive life lesson.


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

I COMPLETELY agree with *Sendiulino*. Not to sound harsh, but you are very ill-equiped to own a dog right now. You are absolutely not giving this dog what she needs, and I don't think you can. Return her to the breeder.



freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> I went to the vet today and he gave me anxiety meds for her and told me not to leave her alone for that long.


As for this...don't even get me started. Don't give her these meds. It is NOT the answer. Your dog is not the problem here.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

She is probably whining because she is bored. You are leaving her alone for far too long and aren't giving her the attention she needs. I agree, give her back to the breeder.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

So, you've only had her a couple of days. It's a huge, huge adjustment for her AND you, and the next few weeks will probably be one of the most stressful times in your relationship. I'm a huge, huge fan of getting the 6-9 month old puppy, but one disadvantage is that she's had longer to get into a routine at the breeder's and she might take a little longer to settle in to a new home and new routine than a younger puppy might. She's probably also used to having other dogs around all the time (which should not be taken as a suggestion to get another dog).

If you really want this dog, I think that you can find a way to make things work with your schedule, but it will involve a lot of effort and problem-solving... possibly recruiting friends, family, and/or neighbors to help with her on your longer school days or investing in something like dog daycare. A lot of training, patience, exercising her, and educating yourself about what dogs need. 

Having said that, if you don't think you can (or want to) handle it, I think the sooner you admit that to yourself the better. No need to put yourself or the pooch through a lot of unneeded stress just to try to prove something to yourself or others.


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## Sendiulino (Jun 20, 2011)

minihart said:


> As for this...don't even get me started. Don't give her these meds. It is NOT the answer. Your dog is not the problem here.


I was pretty floored about that part myself... if she does keep the dog, I hope she at least gets another vet. Preferably one who knows something about dogs ... you'd think that would be a given


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

The first thing that popped out at me was that it didn't sound like you spent that much time with her. I mean, even in the same area. You had her in the bathroom, hung out a bit in there with her, walked her a bit, but otherwise, (unless I misunderstood) you pretty much just left her in the bathroom. That's not really the way to get her used to you or her new home, IMO.

I'm a big fan of having a puppy nearby where you can supervise them. When you need to shower, cook, do laundry, or something else that will keep you from directly supervising her, then, yes, confine her. And, when you have to leave, yes, confine her. But, otherwise, why can't she be closer to you, in the living area of the home? Especially at bedtime. 

One of the first things people recommend is putting the crate in your bedroom at night. Even just hearing you and smelling you can absolutely comfort her. If she whines, yes, ignore her. But, you can easily ignore her when her crate's in your room. Well, ok, not easily, not if you want to get some sleep. But, that's part of owning a puppy. Let her be near you, though.

Also, she's had longer than normal to get used to her home at the breeder. She's still young, and now in a new home where she's scared, unsure, there are new sights, sounds, smells, people, and most of her time is in a bathroom, with just visits from you.
Let her LIVE with you.

As for leaving her alone for that long a time: can you get a trusted neighbor, friend, or relative to come let her out, and interact with her for 30 mintues or so? Can you hire a dog walker? Doggy daycare?

A dog/puppy can adapt, and I think it might be difficult, but do-able. But, that depends on if you want to put the work in. Cats are so independent. Dogs aren't. She needs your company, at least when you ARE home. You need to make arrangements so she'll well taken care of. If you don't think you can find someone to come let her out during the day, and you can't come home, you really need to rethink it...


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

I am not sure if you were aware but Paps are EXTREMELY hyper. I am not sure how long you are walking her but it needs to be a 30min-1hr walk/jog. Keeping her in the bathroom for most of the day is not going to help with whining and behavior problems. I would also suggest giving her back to the breeder. It does not sound like you were ready, but also you may have chose the wrong breed.


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## FrabjousDay (Jun 19, 2011)

Send her back and consider it an expensive lesson learned. Medication can not remedy the fact that you don't have adequate time for a pup.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

You could really make it work if you boned up on dogs and put your mind to it. Most of us did with our first dogs.  But if putting in a lot of effort (and puppies are a lot of effort) is NOT something that in the end sounds appealing to you, changing your life style and every thing included, I would return her as quickly as possible.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm sorry but Papillons LOVE their humans and they really don't do well being alone for so long. I would never, ever, EVER leave my dog home ALONE for more than 8 hours without having someone at least come over in the afternoon to let him out and play with him for a bit.

Papillons are also VERY energetic dogs. Mine is 2 already and STILL isn't calm. He's a ball of energy and I have trouble keeping up with him. I really think you should return the puppy to the breeder. It doesn't sound like you will be able to make the situation work. Normally, I'd say that being in school and away for that many hours is doable, but ONLY if you are willing to hire a dogwalker, have a neighbour go over, or spend $$ on daycare so that the puppy doesn't have to be alone for 11 hours! That's just horrible! I would feel so bad if my dog was alone for 11 hours a day! The only alternatives require you to spend money and it doesn't sound like you have the funds.

It's going to be better for both you and the dog in the long run if you return her. I can foresee her developing severe problems in the future if she's continued to be left alone for such long hours and such minimal human contact, ESPECIALLY for a breed like a Papillon. Did your research not tell you that they are a very velcro breed? Mine follows me everywhere I go, even if it's just to the bathroom. He sits by me when I cook, and sleeps on my bed. I would never ever keep a Papillon (or any other velcro breed for that matter) alone in a bathroom for so many hours a day.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm new to dogforums.com and also to dog ownership! I'm a cat person. I grew up with cats, I got a cat in college and I've since gotten a second cat. I love cats. I love everything about them. BUT, I thought that was probably just because I grew up with them and never had a chance to become a dog person. I really like the idea of a dog. I like the idea of a walking companion, of a fetch companion, of a friend I can teach tricks to, etc. So, a year or so ago, I started researching dog breeds and general information on dogs. I decided on the Papillon. They're small, highly intelligent, have one instead of two coats so they're not supposed to shed a lot, are cute, and I was told they weren't yappers (the vet just told me otherwise...).
> 
> ...


I have two paps. I don't consider them hyper, but they certainly have energy to burn. The problem is, a walk around the block isn't even going to get a 9 month old papillon warmed up. If you're already resentful at the situation (not necessarily the dog), well...it hasn't been that long. We've all experienced that "OH NO WHAT HAVE I DONE" when we've taken in puppies, because your routine and schedule gets so wonky and different until you get settled into the change. Are you really ENJOYING the puppy, or is it a case of you enjoy the thought of having a puppy to come home to? When my youngest pap was a year old or less, he chewed up a lot of things (including a wall). 7:00AM to 8:45PM is a long, long, long time to leave a brand new dog alone, especially at 9 months of age. Paps are kind of velcro in a way, they really enjoy being with their people (ei: the center of attention, and the center of everyones life, and the center of the universe itself) xD If you're really, really, really in love with the pup and are dedicated to making it work, I have no doubt in my mind it CAN work. But you need to be 100% dedicated to MAKING it work, because dogs don't "grow out of" things like boredom and being alone. 
Oh, and medicating a dog who is anxious isn't necessarily a bad thing, but medicating a perfectly normal 9 month old puppy who needs a little more stimulation and excitement in her life isn't the brightest thing I've ever seen on these forums. It might be worth looking into other options.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Sendiulino said:


> No judgment. Just sound advice:
> 
> Give the puppy back to the breeder. Your lifestyle, living arrangements, and mental health at the moment is not allowing you to have a dog as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Consider it an unfortunate and expensive life lesson.


Agreed with all of this. If dog ownership is not working out for you and if you don't feel you can change your lifestyle enough to accommodate the dog, then returning it to the breeder is the best thing you can do for the dog and for yourself.

Definitely agree with not medicating your dog. The dog is not suffering from anxiety; she's bored and lonely. She needs more time with you.

I also have a papillon, and I agree with what the others have said about them. Most papillons are "velcro dogs;" they love being around their humans. (Mine follows me everywhere and right now is sleeping by my computer chair.) Most are quite energetic, and they're smart, too -- if they don't get the physical and mental exercise they need, they will find ways to amuse themselves, which can include chewing up your house.

Sit down and really consider whether you have the time and energy and patience for a dog. If the answer is no, that doesn't make you a bad person -- it just makes you not a dog person. Give the dog back to the breeder and stick with cats.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Were you honest with the breeder about your schedule? You're really not home enough, IMO, to have a dog. I have no issue with her being in the bathroom when you're gone but when you're home, she needs to be with you.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Sendiulino said:


> No judgment. Just sound advice:
> 
> Give the puppy back to the breeder. Your lifestyle, living arrangements, and mental health at the moment is not allowing you to have a dog as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Consider it an unfortunate and expensive life lesson.


I agree with this as well. Dogs are way different than cats...as you have probably discovered. Mine are with me when I'm home. When I'm gone, they have each other. Being in law school does not afford you the time for a dog. It does not make you a bad person...it really doesn't.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

It sounds like a dog is more responsiblity than you need right now. You should probably return her to the breeder if you really don't have time to let her out of the bathroom/crate


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

minihart said:


> I COMPLETELY agree with *Sendiulino*. Not to sound harsh, but you are very ill-equiped to own a dog right now. You are absolutely not giving this dog what she needs, and I don't think you can. Return her to the breeder.
> 
> 
> 
> As for this...don't even get me started. Don't give her these meds. It is NOT the answer. Your dog is not the problem here.


I think there are times when anti-anxiety drugs can be useful. But not when it is simply for the convenience of the owner who doesn't have time to work with the dog. She doesn't sound "anxious" She sounds bored and lonely


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> I think there are times when anti-anxiety drugs can be useful. But not when it is simply for the convenience of the owner who doesn't have time to work with the dog. She doesn't sound "anxious" She sounds bored and lonely


And, she sounds like a typical 9 month old puppy in a new home.


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## The_Monstors (Oct 1, 2010)

You went outside to make a call to your mom while the dog is inside alone and confined? You can sit on the couch with your dog to call her? Dogs need time with people, even if it's not a activity. My dogs are velcro dogs and just watching me cook, taking a nap with me, just laying on me while I type this, helps their need of me. They're not like cats who a little bit of playing with them with a fishy pole and they're good and fine. I think a key to making this work is snapping out of the idea that if you feed her, walk her and shelter her she shouldn't want for nothing and therefore shouldn't cry. She's adjusting to a new home and if she came from a good breeder they gave her plenty of love where her new home is lonely. If you are doing something like cooking and wanting to keep an eye on her try the tether method. You leash your puppy and tie her to you while you're at home. Keeps them out of trouble or going off somewhere to potty, but keeps them near you. I would try letting her sleep with you or near you to make her feel safe. I would also try to do positive reinforcement on her kennel as right now it's all negative. My guys don't mind being confined, but I've associated positive things with it. When I got their kennels, I would reward them for going in to investigate it and praising them "good house". Now if they hear "house", they're happy to go in, whether I give them treats/chew bones or not. I would lay off drugging her as it is just a patch and doesn't fix anything. Anti-anxiety meds can be a good tool, but shouldn't be the first answer when simple solutions hasn't been tried into the dog. Perhaps consider going to a puppy class since this is a first time for you and seems you can really benefit learning all the basics and having a place to ask experts questions. 

It sounds like you really didn't think about this. Didn't research on dogs, be around other peoples dogs, talk to owners before even considering such a big jump. Being in law school is demanding and I think you also know that, but didn't think of how it can hurt your pet. It happens to a lot of people though and doesn't mean you can't be a good owner. You just have to get real and dig deep if you're going to do this. A puppy is a lot of sacrifice and can work if you decide on making the commitment. It can get easier as your dog gets more confident in their home, bonds with you and sets into a routine but that doesn't just happen. To get there will be a bumpy road. It can bring a lot of joy and a point of pride. It is NOT for everyone though and you have to figure out quick if it is. It's okay to just be a cat person. 

If you see this as a mistake, please let her go as soon as possible to someone who can care for all her needs and is ready for her. I don't know what your breeder contract says but if you can rehome her or you have to take her back, but if you can rehome her perhaps you can recoup some of your money. Don't expect someone to pay 100% though since they're saving your butt essentially. I know the price is hard to swallow if you lose everything you spent to send her home, but seriously its nothing compared to a lifetime of having a dog you don't want. Money is nothing when it comes to stressing out yourself and a dog out because you don't want to lose it. It's a hard lesson learned and one you can take to your law career- be sure or pay the price.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

I think a goldfish would be a better fit. It sounds like you don't really want to interact with your dog, just look at her, give her a pet, and then leave her locked in a room all day and night. I feel quite bad for her in this situation and hope you will do the right thing and return her.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Sendiulino said:


> No judgment. Just sound advice:
> 
> Give the puppy back to the breeder. Your lifestyle, living arrangements, and mental health at the moment is not allowing you to have a dog as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Consider it an unfortunate and expensive life lesson.


Ditto. You don't have the time to have a dog, plus you could end up getting evicted from a dog barking/whining. Stick with cats until you are settled and can devote more time to a dog, if you still want one. Dogs are pretty time intensive.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I have read through this thread and I don't have the patience to sugar coat this:

You need to get that dog back to the breeder, now, and you need to not get another dog...maybe ever...unless you are aware FULLY of the time commitment.

Every free minute I have right now is devoted to work or my dogs (and maybe my husband...maybe). At no time are eitehr of them alone for more than 8 hours a day, and that is only 5 days a week. I adjust my schedule so that I can spend time with them on weekends, I don't go out with people too often unless I can be sure I will be back in time to take care of the dogs. I don't go on trips. I don't stay over at people's houses...and I do NOT leave my dogs alone for 13 hours at a time....and, if I did, you can bet that I would spend every second of time I had at home training, walking, feeding, etc. 

It seems you don't want to commit to the dog. That is fine. Then don't. Stick to cats who (for the most part) couldn't care less about whether or not you are home. A dog will care. They want to be with you, and the longer you keep this puppy and the longer you leave it alone, the more likely it is to develop major separation issues in the future, which may ruin the dog for a new owner. PLEASE, do what is right. Dogs can't be an experiement--they have to be an experience, and it doesn't sound to me like you are ready.


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## workingdog (Oct 19, 2006)

It's a dog not a cat frist off. You can't make a dog live in the bathroom and that is what it sounds like you are doing. Might be fine for a cat(dont know never had a cat) At 9 months i would think that the dog would be ok being out when you are home. Use a crate when you have to leave or the bathroom but it needs to be out with you when your home. Of corse it is acting up, it's bored and wants the heck out of the bathroom. It sounds like maybe you should stick with cats and send the poor dog back to the breeders.


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> I think there are times when anti-anxiety drugs can be useful. But not when it is simply for the convenience of the owner who doesn't have time to work with the dog. She doesn't sound "anxious" She sounds bored and lonely


Oh, certainly. But as we all agree, this particular case does not require diagnosing and medicating this dog.


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

I love all you dog people, but take it easy on comparing cats to low-maintenance, happy-to-be-alone alternatives for the OP.  

Some cats are definitely very independent, but many that I've owned - including my two current rascals - are just as velcro and high maintenance as Cosmo.


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## FrabjousDay (Jun 19, 2011)

minihart said:


> I love all you dog people, but take it easy on comparing cats to low-maintenance, happy-to-be-alone alternatives for the OP.


Amen! 

I also think it's possible to be a good dog owner and still have a life...yeesh. I have a family, a career and a variety of interests that take me outside of the home on a regular basis, and still manage to have a happy healthy dog. That doesn't mean that I feel a dog is a good fit for the OP's current lifestyle (I don't), but somewhere between a dog being alone 13+ hours/day and humans dedicating every waking hour to their canine companions...there exists a happy, and more realistic, middle ground.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

She is being left alone FAR too long and she is understimulated. She needs to be out and getting excercise, whether you take her to a doggy day care or hire a walker to come in during the day. If you can't do either, you need to return her NOT medicate her. 

No a dog doesn't have to take up every waking moment, but they do need to be around their humans and get stimilation through physical excercise and TRAINING to wear them out. Simple things like being able to be in the same room with you or lying at your feet while you study. This poor pup is BEGGING for your attention and you are ignoring her and locking her up in small room with NOTHING to do.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

In regards to ^^^^ I can't imagine my dogs not being near me. I don't even have a choice. When I shower, Ginger's pretty closeby when I get out. They also sleep in our room.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

minihart said:


> I love all you dog people, but take it easy on comparing cats to low-maintenance, happy-to-be-alone alternatives for the OP.
> 
> Some cats are definitely very independent, but many that I've owned - including my two current rascals - are just as velcro and high maintenance as Cosmo.


In my experience with cats, they ARE much more independent than most dogs, in particular, Paps. My current will sometimes grace me with his presence, and then it's usually to be obnoxious because his starving (in his mind). He will sometimes sleep and the foot of my bed. But for the most part, he is happy to be on his own. My dogs on the other hand are quite the opposite. Butch likes to be outside by himself, but Roxxy MUST be near me 95% of the time I am home.

This poor Pap doesn't appear to be spending any time with the OP (who btw, I have not seen a response from since he/she posted). And it's not admitting failure to return the dog. In fact it's admitting that you don't have the necessary time to devote to this dog (or any dog) in this stage of your life. Maybe down the road, but during law school is not the best time to acquire one. JMHO.


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> In my experience with cats, they ARE much more independent than most dogs, in particular, Paps. My current will sometimes grace me with his presence, and then it's usually to be obnoxious because his starving (in his mind). He will sometimes sleep and the foot of my bed. But for the most part, he is happy to be on his own. My dogs on the other hand are quite the opposite. Butch likes to be outside by himself, but Roxxy MUST be near me 95% of the time I am home.


There are, of course, many cats who are much more independent than dogs. But even still, my point was to refrain from suggesting the OP get a cat instead. All pets need proper love, care and attention in a stable home: none of which the OP seems able to provide. But maybe this is all just a moot point now, since the OP seems to have disappeared.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

minihart said:


> There are, of course, many cats who are much more independent than dogs. But even still, my point was to refrain from suggesting the OP get a cat instead. All pets need proper love, care and attention in a stable home: none of which the OP seems able to provide. *But maybe this is all just a moot point now, since the OP seems to have disappeared.*


Oh, I know cats can be terribly velcro...maybe mine end up not being that because I discourage it from the beginning. I don't want any animal that MUST be on, in or touching me all the time. Roxxy is happy just laying on the bed with me. She snuggles when cold (or climbs all over me when there is a storm). I have a friend whose cats all sleep on him at night...nope, not me. Give me my room or you'll end up on the floor :becky:

And yep, haven't seen anything since the original post.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

FrabjousDay said:


> Amen!
> 
> I also think it's possible to be a good dog owner and still have a life...yeesh. I have a family, a career and a variety of interests that take me outside of the home on a regular basis, and still manage to have a happy healthy dog. That doesn't mean that I feel a dog is a good fit for the OP's current lifestyle (I don't), but somewhere between a dog being alone 13+ hours/day and humans dedicating every waking hour to their canine companions...there exists a happy, and more realistic, middle ground.


I agree with this, and I don't even think it's the time left alone that's the real problem, although 13 hours 5 days a week wouldn't work. It's the time spent with the dog when you're home that's really important. A dog who gets left alone for that long needs a LOT more mental stimulation and exercise than a dog who was only left alone for 8 or 9 hours a day. If you're gone for 13 hours and still want a good 8 hour sleep, that only gives you 3 hours of free time... and you really need to spend all of that time with your dog, playing enough mentally stimulating games and giving it enough exercise that it's worn out enough to sleep. Think about it -- your dog has likely spent all 13 hours of the day sleeping or snoozing, and then you go home and expect it to want to go to sleep again in a couple hours... not going to happen. 

If you keep this dog, you need to find a way to wear her out either during those 13 hours or when you get home (when you'll probably be exhausted and ready to relax). This means hiring a dog walker, taking her to doggie daycare, finding a retired dog-loving couple with a dog that your papillon likes who would agree to watch your dog during the day in exchange for dogsitting when they go on vacation, chores around the house, or a smaller fee than a doggy daycare, making a NEW friend who isn't allergic to your cats, etc. Or it means finding the energy when you get home to go for a long walk (I'd say 60 minutes minimum after being confined for 13 hours) followed by some games that make her think, like "find it" or teaching her new behaviors.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I just want to add my 2 cents. I live with 5 papillons right now. I work full time and have gone to school and had them. You can make it work if you really want to. I lived with mine (both very vocal) in an apartment just fine. 

I'm not sure I agree that paps are extremely hyper, but they do have a lot of energy typically. They're just plain not a breed you can get away with not putting quite a bit of time into them. They're incredibly velcro and really have a NEED to be with their people and involved in things. They've been bred as companions for thousands of years and tend to take things to a different level in my experience. There is nothing more velcro than a papillon. I generally only recommend them to really dog oriented people because to many others they are annoying. Papillons are a breed that is really ONLY truly happy when they are with their people. I don't even have to do anything in particular with them, they just want to be involved. (Right now I have all 5 on the couch with me.)

When I lived in an apartment with them, they got 2 hours at the park off leash plus 3x agility a week. They really can get kind of wound up (paps tend to be pretty tightly wound from the get go). You can tell when mine need exercise. I work 10 hour shifts now that suck and I hate being gone that long. My answer for my dogs was a dog walker and you can bet I spend most my spare time with them. 

Bottom line is papillons are not a good choice for people wanting a dog that doesn't take much time. they're very smart, active, and incredibly velcro.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi everyone--
For some reason, I only got emails about the first two responses, so I didn't initially answer. 
Since posting this, I spoke with a friend who has 3 dogs. She got the first 6 years ago, the second 4 years ago, and the third last year. She told me that for EACH of them, she felt buyer's remorse and regret for the first week or so and that until they got into a schedule, it was really hard.
She is definitely more of a dog person than a cat person, and yet she acknowledged experiencing the same lost "what do I do with this pet" feeling with the first one.
That said, I think it's a pretty a-holeish suggestion that I get a goldfish. 
Further, I wasn't clear enough in my description, perhaps. She wasn't in the bathroom alone the entire time. I even took my reading materials in there and read nex tto her while she napped for two hours. Then we played a few games. She wasn't that interested in playing, but I kept trying to interest her. 
The next day, I took her out into the house and watched her in the living room/kitchen area. 
Of course, while I was at school, she was confined to the bathroom.
I didn't think to put the crate in my room because the vet told me to ignore her and that if she heard me, it would encourage her whining. 
Maybe you're right and I need a new vet.
FYI, I have not given her any of the meds. He gave her a pill before we left his office yesterday, but I haven't since. 
He also suggested debarking her...I responded that that didn't seem like a actual solution to the problem and am researching other vets. I went to him because a professor recommended him to me. 
I'm currently writing you from the kitchen table, and she's sitting at my feet. 
I wasn't planning on leaving her in the bathroom all day when I was home--but as many of you commented, when you can't pay attention fully to a new puppy, it's better to restrain them in some way so you know where they are.
On our 30 minute walk yesterday, I didn't walk the 2 hours some of you suggested because she got visibly tired after 20 minutes of it. I jogged with her for 5 minutes and then she started lagging. Maybe she's less energetic and "hyper" than some of your paps. I actually specifically asked the breeder for a non-hyper pap. 
I've been walking her twice a day, but she doesnt' seem to last more than 20 minutes without starting to get tired. Would you like me to push her further? Probably not. 
I did research this breed before making my decision. In fact, I researched different dog breeds for a year and hung out with friends who have dogs--all of them a bit older, unfortunately. I never came across anyone who said they were "velcro" dogs, however. You can judge my research for that if you'd like, but I was in contact with two different professionals (I won't give you too many details--but they're both involved in breeding, training, and agility with paps) and neither one of them described papillons as having to be with their owners 100% of the time or else. 
I've been home most of the day today, though, and she's been out of the bathroom the entire time. The bathroom is left open, though, in case she wants to go in her crate. 
I even left for class and left her in the apartment with the cats--not in her crate and not in the bathroom. I waited outside the door for a few minutes, opened it so she'd see I was still there, did that a few more times when she whined, then she seemed to understand and I left.
I just got home a few minutes ago and she didn't bark but she sat up and started wagging her tail as soon as I walked in.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

BTW I didn't initially answer because both of the first two posters said I should just get rid of her and I was thinking through everything and discussing it with the friend I mentioned above so I wanted to wait at least a week until I knew what I wanted to do. 
I've already been in touch with the breeder just in case.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> Oh, I know cats can be terribly velcro...maybe mine end up not being that because I discourage it from the beginning. I don't want any animal that MUST be on, in or touching me all the time. Roxxy is happy just laying on the bed with me. She snuggles when cold (or climbs all over me when there is a storm). I have a friend whose cats all sleep on him at night...nope, not me. Give me my room or you'll end up on the floor


I'm the same way. My cats know that when I call them, they can lay all over me, snuggle in my neck, etc--but when I'm studying, they're welcome next to me but not on me. I wouldn't get anything done if they were always on top of me. I would feel much worse leaving them if they were THAT needy anyway. 
I'm training this dog to be the same. She has been sitting next to me, or on my feet but I don't want her on my book while I'm reading.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

minihart said:


> I love all you dog people, but take it easy on comparing cats to low-maintenance, happy-to-be-alone alternatives for the OP.
> 
> Some cats are definitely very independent, but many that I've owned - including my two current rascals - are just as velcro and high maintenance as Cosmo.


My cats are just about the most loving, snuggly little cuddle bugs ever--I was at the birth of one of them and he's my loyal friend. He comes when called and purrs as soon as he hears his name. I'm not saying I want an entirely independent pet. I just don't want one that I can't leave alone EVER. That's what I was worried about. There are dogs whose separation anxiety is so bad their owners can't leave without them having super anxiety. Apparently, that's not going to be an issue, though. I left today for three hours and she was fine when I came back. She wasn't whining or barking. Night is the harder part--yet she was crate trained to be in the crate from 10 to 8. Or so the breeder told me. I'm sure she's just lonely at night now and, given your suggestions, I'll probably put her in my room tonight in her crate.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes. I'm definitely considering this as well. 
I'd like to give her (and me) at least a week to see how things go, though. 



spotted nikes said:


> Ditto. You don't have the time to have a dog, plus you could end up getting evicted from a dog barking/whining. Stick with cats until you are settled and can devote more time to a dog, if you still want one. Dogs are pretty time intensive.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

Thank you for this. It's honest and not judgmental at least. "

I'll also look into getting a dogsitter/walker/doggie daycare (hadn't thought of the latter) and/or the well-thought out suggestion that I find an older dog-loving couple who could watch her in exchange for other services.

Of course, if after a week or two I realize I really cant do it and she's miserable, I'll give her back to the breeder or find a good home for her. 



alphadoginthehouse said:


> I agree with this as well. Dogs are way different than cats...as you have probably discovered. Mine are with me when I'm home. When I'm gone, they have each other. Being in law school does not afford you the time for a dog. It does not make you a bad person...it really doesn't.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, it's always good to give it a week or two. At first there's always (maybe not always but frequently) that panic of "what did I do?!?!?". After that the panic wears off and you can think more clearly about the best course, and the dog will have settled in and adjusted to your home and routine. That being said, I don't think anyone would hold it against you if you decided that law school and a new dog are too much to do at the same time!

It's good to hear that she's settling in. I hope the two of you have many happy years ahead of you (I do think I'll recommend finding a new vet, though). Or, if you decide it won't work, that you can find her a place where she'll be happy and her people will be happy with her.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

Thank you for this post. 
I really hadn't realized the adjustment it would require. While I'd researched dogs and getting a new dog/puppy, etc, what I read were just words. It's not the same as experiencing it. 
She's actually acclimated surprisingly fast for being an older puppy, though I expect her to whine some tonight as well. I'm sure she could hear the other dogs in their crates and that was more reassuring than my quiet apt at night. 
Today has been much better--probably in part because I've been home with her all day. Tomorrow I'll be home half the day, and Sunday I'll be home the entire day. I think it can work--I just have two days that I'm in school all day (and yes, in response to an earlier post, the breeder did know that. I was very honest with her about my time commitment, etc, and that is why she suggested this particular dog, whom she said was more independent/less clingy and needy than her other dogs). I was, honestly, also hoping the cats would play with her a bit more. One of them has tried to play with her a few times, but she literally just looks away from him, so I don't think that's going to play out  



sassafras said:


> So, you've only had her a couple of days. It's a huge, huge adjustment for her AND you, and the next few weeks will probably be one of the most stressful times in your relationship. I'm a huge, huge fan of getting the 6-9 month old puppy, but one disadvantage is that she's had longer to get into a routine at the breeder's and she might take a little longer to settle in to a new home and new routine than a younger puppy might. She's probably also used to having other dogs around all the time (which should not be taken as a suggestion to get another dog).
> 
> If you really want this dog, I think that you can find a way to make things work with your schedule, but it will involve a lot of effort and problem-solving... possibly recruiting friends, family, and/or neighbors to help with her on your longer school days or investing in something like dog daycare. A lot of training, patience, exercising her, and educating yourself about what dogs need.
> 
> Having said that, if you don't think you can (or want to) handle it, I think the sooner you admit that to yourself the better. No need to put yourself or the pooch through a lot of unneeded stress just to try to prove something to yourself or others.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Buyer's remorse is not at all uncommon. I certainly had a good dose of it after adopting my 7mo old dog from the shelter, and even experienced the symptoms you described: loss of appetite, feeling ill, etc. I think you can make this work, but it will take dedication.

Here are a few suggestions:
1) Run, don't walk, from your vet. Anxiety meds are not needed in this case. Most folks would consider debarking to be cruel. Anyone who recommends both is not someone whose opinion I'd trust.
2) Read the stickies at the top of each of the sub-forums here. There's a lot of basic info there for first time owners. 
3) Spend some good quality time with the dog. You said she doesn't really want to interact with you, but for the right motivator, maybe she would. You'll have to figure out whether that's food, toys, petting, or something else.
4) Consider taking a basic obedience class (positive, reward-based training only). Even if the dog isn't out of control, your relationship will benefit from this.
5) When you leave the dog alone, make sure she has plenty to do. Do you have a kong yet?


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> Thank you for this post.
> I really hadn't realized the adjustment it would require. While I'd researched dogs and getting a new dog/puppy, etc, what I read were just words. It's not the same as experiencing it.
> She's actually acclimated surprisingly fast for being an older puppy, though I expect her to whine some tonight as well. I'm sure she could hear the other dogs in their crates and that was more reassuring than my quiet apt at night.
> Today has been much better--probably in part because I've been home with her all day. Tomorrow I'll be home half the day, and Sunday I'll be home the entire day. I think it can work--I just have two days that I'm in school all day (and yes, in response to an earlier post, the breeder did know that. I was very honest with her about my time commitment, etc, and that is why she suggested this particular dog, whom she said was more independent/less clingy and needy than her other dogs). I was, honestly, also hoping the cats would play with her a bit more. One of them has tried to play with her a few times, but she literally just looks away from him, so I don't think that's going to play out


It sounds like you want to make it work, which is a great thing because it CAN work. It'll take time  When I brought my youngest pap (now over 2 years old) home it was a horrible moment when I realized I had given up my nice, quiet, well planned life with my current two dogs by bringing home a cute, fuzzy tornado. For a few days, it was complete chaos, and adjusting to the new schedule was hard, even though I already loved him a lot. NOW, I can't imagine how boring life must have been without him. 
Also, 9 months is somewhat of a fear period for a lot of dogs--they're a little more unsure about things, are a bit more timid, etc. Once she gets through this age, she might actually learn to play with the cats. My youngest and my 2 cats play a LOT. My cats initiate it most of the time, and it's really cute to watch. All 3 seem to be enjoying themselves. 
And a sincere good for you for looking for another vet. I don't normally bash vets, but handing medications and recommending de-barking for a 9 month old pup in a new home is just asinine. 
Post pics if and when you can.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Buyer's remorse is not at all uncommon. I certainly had a good dose of it after adopting my 7mo old dog from the shelter, and even experienced the symptoms you described: loss of appetite, feeling ill, etc. I think you can make this work, but it will take dedication.
> 
> Here are a few suggestions:
> 1) Run, don't walk, from your vet. Anxiety meds are not needed in this case. Most folks would consider debarking to be cruel. Anyone who recommends both is not someone whose opinion I'd trust.
> ...


+1 to all of the above.
Kongs are WONDERFUL. You can cram pretty much any edible in there in any form (they can be frozen). My dogs love yogurt, so I fill them up, freeze them, and voila--30-45 minutes of (quiet) chewing and a constant reward in food form for having their mouths shut xD 
And a double +1 for finding a dog friendly class with an instructor who knows a bit about working with newly aquired adult/older puppies. There's a lot of good books in the Recommended Reading section, my favorite is The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. It's a great book about dogs, but it really goes into human behavior as well, which is *almost* as interesting


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> My dogs love yogurt, so I fill them up, freeze them, and voila--30-45 minutes of (quiet) chewing and a constant reward in food form for having their mouths shut xD


LOL, I WISH kongs lasted 30-45 minutes! Kit can get thru a frozen one in 5 mins flat. Busy buddy squirrel dude is similar, but more difficult, so that's good for a few hours of quiet. For a puppy with questionable food motivation, though, I'd start with a kong. I've heard it said that all of the licking makes the dog sleepy.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> LOL, I WISH kongs lasted 30-45 minutes! Kit can get thru a frozen one in 5 mins flat. Busy buddy squirrel dude is similar, but more difficult, so that's good for a few hours of quiet. For a puppy with questionable food motivation, though, I'd start with a kong. I've heard it said that all of the licking makes the dog sleepy.


Haha, I just wished a kong = silent. We use a black kong one size too big because Kodi is a chewing fool and when he gets his kong all I hear is the squeak of teeth on rubber, it drives me crazy!


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Buyer's remorse is not at all uncommon. I certainly had a good dose of it after adopting my 7mo old dog from the shelter, and even experienced the symptoms you described: loss of appetite, feeling ill, etc. I think you can make this work, but it will take dedication.
> 
> Here are a few suggestions:
> 1) Run, don't walk, from your vet. Anxiety meds are not needed in this case. Most folks would consider debarking to be cruel. Anyone who recommends both is not someone whose opinion I'd trust.
> ...


1. I'm definitely already searching for a new vet--not just for the pap, but also for my cats! I'd gone to a different one for the cats for a long time, but he just retired and one of my professors suggested this vet. She's been going to him for years. I got the impression, though, that he's a quick fix type of guy and more interested in money than anything else. Yet, he has 30 toy poodles, he said! They must all be debarked...

2. Good idea! I'm not very familiar with forums or how they work, but I'll read through them tonight  

3. I was trying to use treats the breeder suggested, but she's not as interested in them as I thought. She seems to respond much better to petting than food-treats  That's easy enough for me!

4. I thought the basic obedience classes were more for puppies or hyper/out of control dogs--would you mind telling me more about the benefits of them in your opinion? I just did a quick search and the people who give obedience classes around here charge $500 per session and recommend 6 sessions... Otherwise, there's petsmart and petco, but I've read mixed reviews of those.

5. No Kong yet, but she doesn't seem that interested in toys. I left her in my apt unconfined otday and she didn't destroy anything (that I can tell ... ). I don't know if that's because she's too scared to or because she understands that her toys are for her and everythign else is for me...or because the cats scare her off from being bad. if she starts acting up (do you think that's likely?), I'll definitely get a Kong.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> It sounds like you want to make it work, which is a great thing because it CAN work. It'll take time  When I brought my youngest pap (now over 2 years old) home it was a horrible moment when I realized I had given up my nice, quiet, well planned life with my current two dogs by bringing home a cute, fuzzy tornado. For a few days, it was complete chaos, and adjusting to the new schedule was hard, even though I already loved him a lot. NOW, I can't imagine how boring life must have been without him.
> Also, 9 months is somewhat of a fear period for a lot of dogs--they're a little more unsure about things, are a bit more timid, etc. Once she gets through this age, she might actually learn to play with the cats. My youngest and my 2 cats play a LOT. My cats initiate it most of the time, and it's really cute to watch. All 3 seem to be enjoying themselves.
> And a sincere good for you for looking for another vet. I don't normally bash vets, but handing medications and recommending de-barking for a 9 month old pup in a new home is just asinine.
> Post pics if and when you can.


I don't know how to post pics, but if you tell me how, I'd be more than happy to  
And I really really hope she warms up to the cats. I think they could be great dogsitters for her while I'm at work. They're really friendly (haven't hissed at her or anythign like that) and playful.



LazyGRanch713 said:


> +1 to all of the above.
> Kongs are WONDERFUL. You can cram pretty much any edible in there in any form (they can be frozen). My dogs love yogurt, so I fill them up, freeze them, and voila--30-45 minutes of (quiet) chewing and a constant reward in food form for having their mouths shut xD
> And a double +1 for finding a dog friendly class with an instructor who knows a bit about working with newly aquired adult/older puppies. There's a lot of good books in the Recommended Reading section, my favorite is The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. It's a great book about dogs, but it really goes into human behavior as well, which is *almost* as interesting


Thanks for the reading suggestion! I'll see if I can find that book. 
Also wouldn't have thought to stuff the kongs with frozen food... or of feeding dogs yogurt


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Frozen stuff at least slows the kong eating down! Otherwise my puppy licks one clean in 30 seconds, lol.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> 3. I was trying to use treats the breeder suggested, but she's not as interested in them as I thought. She seems to respond much better to petting than food-treats  That's easy enough for me!


What kind of treats are these, if you don't mind me asking? A lot of dogs don't particularly like dry/crunchy treats. You can try peanut butter, string cheese, organ meat, or one of the many softer dog treats. Natural Balance makes a nice roll that can be cut up into bite sized pieces. Any of this will also freeze nicely inside a kong.



freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> 4. I thought the basic obedience classes were more for puppies or hyper/out of control dogs--would you mind telling me more about the benefits of them in your opinion? I just did a quick search and the people who give obedience classes around here charge $500 per session and recommend 6 sessions... Otherwise, there's petsmart and petco, but I've read mixed reviews of those.


Yes, I'd avoid petco/petsmart if possible. There are probably some group classes in the area that won't be exorbitant - probably on the order of $100 for 6-8 weeks. Obedience classes are not just for out of control, problem dogs and puppies. Ideally they strengthen the bond between dog and owner, giving them both more confidence. The instructor should not be teaching your dog, but should be teaching you, the handler, how to teach your dog. As a first-time owner I thought my dog didn't need obedience classes either...until I got to class. Those classes jolted me out of my wrong thinking before it was too late. The progress that we made together during those classes was the foundation of our relationship.



freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> 5. No Kong yet, but she doesn't seem that interested in toys. I left her in my apt unconfined otday and she didn't destroy anything (that I can tell ... ). I don't know if that's because she's too scared to or because she understands that her toys are for her and everythign else is for me...or because the cats scare her off from being bad. if she starts acting up (do you think that's likely?), I'll definitely get a Kong.


Kongs aren't just for destructive dogs. Several people have said (and I agree) that your dog sounds bored. If that's the case, a kong is a way to help relieve that boredom when you can't be there. Even if she doesn't love toys (yet), she might show an interest if it was filled with something really enticing like peanut butter.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> I really hadn't realized the adjustment it would require. While I'd researched dogs and getting a new dog/puppy, etc, what I read were just words. It's not the same as experiencing it.


Oh man, I hear that. When I brought Squash home at 11 weeks old, I really thought I was prepared, too. Puppyhood was far more all-encompassing than I expected, and I expected it to be a lot of work.


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## freakingoutdoggymomma (Aug 25, 2011)

"all encompassing" is the perfect way to put it! 


sassafras said:


> Oh man, I hear that. When I brought Squash home at 11 weeks old, I really thought I was prepared, too. Puppyhood was far more all-encompassing than I expected, and I expected it to be a lot of work.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

sassafras said:


> Oh man, I hear that. When I brought Squash home at 11 weeks old, I really thought I was prepared, too. Puppyhood was far more all-encompassing than I expected, and I expected it to be a lot of work.


Hey, I got Shambles!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> On our 30 minute walk yesterday, I didn't walk the 2 hours some of you suggested because she got visibly tired after 20 minutes of it. I jogged with her for 5 minutes and then she started lagging. Maybe she's less energetic and "hyper" than some of your paps. I actually specifically asked the breeder for a non-hyper pap.
> I've been walking her twice a day, but she doesnt' seem to last more than 20 minutes without starting to get tired. Would you like me to push her further? Probably not.
> I did research this breed before making my decision. In fact, I researched different dog breeds for a year and hung out with friends who have dogs--all of them a bit older, unfortunately. I never came across anyone who said they were "velcro" dogs, however. You can judge my research for that if you'd like, but I was in contact with two different professionals (I won't give you too many details--but they're both involved in breeding, training, and agility with paps) and neither one of them described papillons as having to be with their owners 100% of the time or else.
> I've been home most of the day today, though, and she's been out of the bathroom the entire time. The bathroom is left open, though, in case she wants to go in her crate.


I am honestly surprised no one has called them velcro before to you.

I don't know if I'm a 'professional' but I have shown papillons before, own an AKC champion, member of the local papillon club, owned 7 papillons, and trained (not competed) in agility with two of them. I know Crantastic is also pretty involved in the breed, probably moreso than me (I just do pet stuff these days).

This is one of the very first things I come across on the breed club website: 



> While every dog is an individual, Papillons in general have been genetically fine-tuned for hundreds of years to be companions to humans. They do not thrive in environments where there is little time for the dog, or with people who prefer a moderately demanding companion. Most Papillons will choose to NEVER be separated from their humans if possible. We have a joke about it - "Having a Papillon means never going to the bathroom by yourself again!"


Being velcro doesn't mean you have to be there 24/7 with your dog. I work 10 hour days 4 days a week. It's fine. It DOES mean that you have to take the time to work with your dog when you're home. They need that kind of interaction. Doesn't have to be fancy but the more you involve your papillon in things, the happier they will be and the more adjusted they will be.

NO ONE said you have to walk your dogs 2 hours a day either. I just said I had to walk mine that much when we lived in an apartment. My youngest is incredibly active but of course your activity level will vary. I would be a bit concerned if she can't make it past 20 minutes (unless it's 108 like it is here). Even my lowest key pap can go for a couple hours. But she doesn't need it at all. She's fine just hanging around the house. In general though, they tend to be more active than average. 

Yeah an adjustment period is good. You need time to adjust to her and her to you. Any time you add a new dog, that takes time.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

Not to be mean, just honest, would you want to be in something the size of a closet for 12hrs without exercise or stimulation? It's a lonely life for a dog. Once in a while, not so bad but not consistently. Options is look in to doggy daycare, dog sitter (comes by the house twice a day for 30-60min per visit) or a friend for long days. 

And for the record, for as much as I loved our little girl, our first dog, it took a good month before I stopped questioning the choice. The second dog was a much easier transition.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

Sendiulino said:


> I was pretty floored about that part myself... if she does keep the dog, I hope she at least gets another vet. Preferably one who knows something about dogs ... you'd think that would be a given


So true, meds are last resort and not when it's from being locked up all day.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

theyogachick said:


> I have read through this thread and I don't have the patience to sugar coat this:
> 
> You need to get that dog back to the breeder, now, and you need to not get another dog...maybe ever...unless you are aware FULLY of the time commitment.
> 
> ...



Honesty isn't mean or harsh, this was just honesty. 

Our lives revolve around our dogs, every decision is howmit will affect them or what to do for them. We have the, go to daycare on days I work 8hrs or more but to gomat least twice a week for doggy playtime. This also keeps the, familiar w the staff and facility for when we board them. It is a must that they feel it is an extension of home to them, they must be just as comfortable. If no room at boarding we do not go. Period. We spent a year on each dog for basic obedience classes. Right now our life is revolving around vet visits for one w muscle injury which now means multiple trips each week to a facility an hour from home for physical therapy. That is just the time, nothing about expense which is another issue. I also do not work full 40hr week so I can be home w them More, on avg I only work 6hrs a day 4days a week. We made this commitment when we chose to adopt them. We love coming home to them. We love feeling them at the end of the bed...or at 2am when hubby & his little buddy decide it's time for a lovefest which involves cooing, petting and lots of licking ending with Skyler pushing against my back so he can shove his head into my hubby's neck to snuggle close as possible. Yup, I find comfort In them pushing me out of bed, it's a pure innocent love & wonderful to watch it, even at 2 am. Or the midnight bed slapping my baby girl does when she has to potty then wants a few minutes of belly scratches. This all is only nice or twice a week but again, it's time we decide to fulfill a need they are asking us for. then there is time exercising, training that never ends and the day concluded w quiet time hanging out together on the couch. Lots of time spent, not licked in a bathroom.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> I don't know if I'm a 'professional' but I have shown papillons before, own an AKC champion, member of the local papillon club, owned 7 papillons, and trained (not competed) in agility with two of them. I know Crantastic is also pretty involved in the breed, probably moreso than me (I just do pet stuff these days).


I don't actually do a lot, but I attend all of the local shows and hang out with the papillon breeders (normally there are three to five of them at each show who are all friends and set up together in a group) and I help out with the dogs at ringside or with exercising them between shows or whatever. I get to meet a lot of papillons! Some of them are more aloof, but on the whole I would definitely describe the breed as velcro. With a couple of the dogs who are a bit older and already have their championships, you can see how bonded they are to their owner/handlers. They barely take their eyes off their people! Some of them don't like going into the ring with someone who's not their normal handler (it can be necessary when one person has multiple dogs in the show at once). When they're all in the x-pen, most of the time they are jumping at the sides and trying to get to people, unlike a lot of the other show dogs who just nap! I have so many pictures like this:










(See also: this, this and this.)

freakingoutdoggymomma, I'm glad to hear that you are hanging around with your dog when you're home. That will help with the bonding -- even if you're not actively doing something, the dog gets to be around you, and that will keep her happy. I second (or third, or whatever) the suggestion of obedience classes. They're not just for problem dogs; they're great for teaching you how to teach your dog and also for getting your dog used to other dogs and to working with distractions. Also, consider teaching her some tricks just for fun -- that really strengthened my bond with my papillon, Crystal, and she absolutely loves learning new things.

Also, I don't think anyone else addressed this yet, but 20 minutes is a fine amount of time to walk your puppy. When she is older and finished growing, she will be able to walk longer (and will probably want to -- Crystal is fine on three-hour walks and we've even gone for six-hour ones with just a couple short rests).


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

I also think that these two links might help you -- they're free e-books written by one of the foremost experts on dog behavior: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads . Before You Get Your Puppy and After You Get Your Puppy in particular. 

I think a lot of dog owners (and I was one myself until, ironically, I watched an episode of a popular dog training show one day which started me on a long journey of learning about dog training and behavior and the AMAZING things one can do and help dogs do with the knowledge) fall into one (or both) categories: The first is thinking of simple behaviors, like sit, down, stay, shake, roll over, etc, when thinking about "dog training" and associating training with teaching tricks. The second is that training is only really needed for bad dogs, and "obedience class" is where you take a dog if you want a master/servant relationship, or if you have a dog who is acting up and needs to be shown who the boss is. Luckily, through a whole bunch of resources on the internet, I was able to learn about how much power we humans actually have to shape the way our dogs feel about the world through training. Here are some of the things you can train your dog to do, if you're so inclined, beyond the obvious behaviors and tricks:

1) Enjoy looking at, approaching, and eventually playing with your cats.
2) Love being bathed and groomed.
3) Create a "default settle" where, whenever you sit down, whether it's in your apartment or at a sidewalk cafe, the dog lays down at your feet instinctively.
4) Create boundaries in your house -- make it so your dog will not leave your apartment even if the door is left open, will not leave the car without a command, will not get on the couch, bed, or your lap, without a command, etc.
5) Teach your dog to look to you for direction in situations where it's unsure of how it should act -- teach your dog that you control all the good things in life. 

All of these things you can do in a way that actively changes the dog. The dog isn't doing what is asked of it because it wants to avoid being punished for making the wrong choice -- it's doing what is asked of it because it honestly finds those situations to be the most rewarding choice. Positive Reinforcement-based training is the best kind of training to achieve this mindset in a dog -- I would suggest making sure that the trainer you use, if any, uses these methods. 

There are so many more things you can teach, and I think a lot of people are unaware of how much power they have over changing how a dog _feels_ about something. A lot of people think training is just teaching cute behaviors (not that there's anything wrong with that... I love cute behaviors!), but it can be so much more. It can be an extremely effective relationship-building tool and a way to communicate with your dog.

Also, I don't think that it's necessary since you've clearly already made the decision to change your vet, but I thought I'd pile on anyways... Here's, ideally, how I'd want my vet to handle the situation (as opposed to how your vet handled it). RE Possible Separation Anxiety: "You have only had your dog for two days, and it is likely still settling down. I would suggest giving your dog several weeks to acclimate to its new home before we talk about other options -- it's likely your dog's behavior will change in many ways during that time. If your dog is still barking and whining to that degree after a couple weeks, I would recommend seeing the veterinary behaviorist with which I am affiliated to discuss your options." and RE Barking "Again, it is likely that your dog's behavior will change as it settles into its new environment, but there are some things that can be done about barking. Debarking is a procedure that does not actually prevent a dog from barking but reduces the volume of the dog's bark. If you're interested in avoiding surgery, I would suggest you consult the dog trainer/veterinary behaviorist to whom I routinely send clients about ways to reduce barking. Other training methods can be effective." 

Clearly, I am not a vet, but that's how I'd want my vet to react. It's possible your vet was just ignorant, but it also kind of seems like he took advantage of your inexperience with dogs to sell/attempt to sell you things that are unnecessary. Vets are pretty hit and miss with what they know about behavior (just like with what they know about nutrition), so unless I see some sort of credentials from my vet about their experience with fixing behavior problems, I'd rather save my behavior questions for a veterinary behaviorist or experienced dog trainer with great references.


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## The_Monstors (Oct 1, 2010)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> 4) Consider taking a basic obedience class (positive, reward-based training only). Even if the dog isn't out of control, your relationship will benefit from this.


I'm glad other people are mentioning training classes. I would go to a group classes. They are a bit easier on your budget, but I think being around others going through the same thing might be helpful. Dogs seem common sense, but there was plenty of things I didn't quite understand about dogs that were mentioned in class. I came home with a better understanding as to why dogs do certain things and what subtle things I was doing that was actually wrong. It's also good bonding for you and your dog and mental stimulation for her. Perhaps a doggy playgroup would be good for her socialization. You can maybe get friends together or there's meetup groups sometimes for certain breeds. I found being around pug people made me understand unique things about them that I couldn't get from someone who doesn't have a brachycephalic companion breed, maybe some papillion/phalene friends would be useful. Most important with all these training and groups is having SUPPORT. You're not alone, everyone has gone through being a first time owner....truth is, even having several dogs, every new dog has been difficult in adjusting to life with me and my family. 

For when you're gone- Kongs have been mentioned, there's also a few puzzle type toys that may be good. Perhaps nylabones or bully sticks and such. Some dogs don't like quiet...I had a dog that appreciated and actually loved TV! 

As for the cats, if they're friendly and playful, they may bond with the dog. I've always had cats with dogs and depending on the personality some become friends, some tolerated each other. It's only been a few days and both you and your kitties need a chance to adjust. My cat was close to my last pug, they would cuddle in the same blanket and nap together, but it took a few months to get to that point. My cat likes to play with my current two pugs. I think he understood that my last pug was old so he did gentle things with her whereas my two are rough and tumble playful creatures. He doesn't cuddle up to these two and doesn't like if they sniff him if he's on my lap. 

I'm glad to hear that you're trying to make this work. I feel for you on the first few weeks being hard and a shocker and it does get a bit easier when you have a flow. Apologies, but in your first post it wasn't clear if you were genuinely overwhelmed and wanted guidedance to go through or looking for people to tell you to get out of a stupid impulse buy. We kinda get those a lot. 

I look forward to hearing some of your progress with....What is your dogs name?


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## Questdriven (Nov 25, 2009)

Hope this works out for you. You have been given great advice so far.
And not trying to hijack the thread or anything, but reading all this about Papillons being velcro dogs, I suddenly realize that my Papillon/Sheltie mix may take more after his Sheltie side when it comes to that. He doesn't constantly follow me around like my previous dog (German Shepherd) did. He strikes me as a guy who loves to run outside, but can live a somewhat laid-back lifestyle and who could adjust to another family fairly easily if he had to. (Not that he doesn't care about me at all, because he obviously does. He used to bark at family members for trying to wake me up and we do have a good bond. He's just more of a loner than my last dog was.)
Again, not trying to hijack the thread. Sorry. ^^;


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

To the OP: I've had some dogs who didn't play with toys but if I gave them a yummy filled Kong, they were all over that! We generally use a dehydrated raw food, mixed up, stuffed in the Kong then frozen but you can use canned dog food, kibble (what your dog is used to), you can even feed your dog the food in the Kong for meals. I also use peanut butter but not often because it can cause mine to have loose poop, you can use yogurt too.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Yes, I'd avoid petco/petsmart if possible. There are probably some group classes in the area that won't be exorbitant - probably on the order of $100 for 6-8 weeks. Obedience classes are not just for out of control, problem dogs and puppies. Ideally they strengthen the bond between dog and owner, giving them both more confidence. The instructor should not be teaching your dog, but should be teaching you, the handler, how to teach your dog. As a first-time owner I thought my dog didn't need obedience classes either...until I got to class. Those classes jolted me out of my wrong thinking before it was too late. The progress that we made together during those classes was the foundation of our relationship.


I wouldn't say that the classes are bad. Gracie went through two levels and they did help with her basic skills and socialization. Are they the best classes? Not always, but I also know that there are some GREAT trainers at Petsmart. And, if you are tight on cash, they will work in a pinch.

Classes will help you bond with your dog. When I got Gracie, we had a rough start. I took her to all her classes and now, well...let's just say there is no question whose dog she is.

I agree that the meds aren't the answer. I am not anti-medication (Gracie has SA, so she has been on anti-anxieties for 6 months), but medication is always a last resort. I am baffled by the fact that your vet gave them to you AND gave your dog a pill before leaving the office.

If you really want to commit to this...you need to work. Everyday. Even the days that you are tired and don't feel like it. There are days I come home from work exhausted and all I want to do is sit and be, but I can't. I have to walk Gracie, feed the dogs, train, etc...and find time to grade papers, plan lessons, etc.

You sound willing to learn, which is good. I know puppies are overwhelming. Your dog is around that "teenage" phase, which adds to the stress. She should be out of it soon, but it is a rocky time in any dog owner's life.

PLEASE make sure this is what you want, that you will make a lifetime committment to the dog and you will be the best owner that you can.


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

To the OP: is there a particular reason why your dog can't sleep in bed with you? She's nine months old, so I assume she's pretty much house-trained. Also, get some 6-inch bully sticks for her to chew on, as well as some soft toys, kong, etc. 

And training with her (either at a class or at home) uses up a lot of mental energy for a dog and makes them tired just like physical exercise does. You could teach her to fetch and she's so small, you could play this in the apartment.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

freakingoutdoggymomma said:


> 4. I thought the basic obedience classes were more for puppies or hyper/out of control dogs--would you mind telling me more about the benefits of them in your opinion? I just did a quick search and the people who give obedience classes around here charge $500 per session and recommend 6 sessions... Otherwise, there's petsmart and petco, but I've read mixed reviews of those.
> 
> .


Don't know where you are located, and classes, like everything else varies considerably by location. Still, I'm betting you can do better than $500. Look for a good group class - private lessons are expensive (but not sure rocket scientists get $500 and hour, and dog training is definitely not rocket science). Around here, most group training classes are within $20 one way or another from what Petsmart charges. Petsmart is sort of all over the place when it comes to quality of training (some are very good, some are cashiers who wanted to make a little extra money). But private trainers are all over the place too. Check around, check them out. Ask questions about methods (and run from people who sound like Cesar Millan or offer you a "lifetime guarantee") Ask to watch a class.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

theyogachick said:


> I wouldn't say that the classes are bad. Gracie went through two levels and they did help with her basic skills and socialization. Are they the best classes? Not always, but I also know that there are some GREAT trainers at Petsmart. And, if you are tight on cash, they will work in a pinch.


What Pawz said. Some trainers at Petco/Petsmart are great. But on average, I think you'll find that they have less experience than trainers not associated with larger chain stores. The problem is, unless you know someone who works there personally, you're going to have a tough time figuring out who will be a good trainer and who won't.

At least in my area, the group classes with experienced trainers cost the same as Petco/Petsmart group classes. It's been a long time since I've been to a basic obedience class, but my agility classes are $15/hour for two trainers who attend national trials with their dogs annually. 

You also have to take into consideration that Petco/Petsmart classes take place at the store, which is a highly distracting environment for a lot of dogs: people, food, etc. can make it tough on a newbie dog, and these variables can't be completely controlled because the store is open to the public. Classes run by private individuals ideally take place in a large indoor space free of clutter and distractions. I know I was grateful for the lack of distractions when we first went to beginning obedience class (although I understand their value later on for proofing purposes).


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## iheartmarcus (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh dear, I am so sorry to hear about your current situation! I can totally sympathize since I was more or less in the same boat almost 2 months ago, except without the added problem of law school scheduling.

When I got my 10 week old puppy, I woke up asking myself why I ever wanted a puppy every day for almost a month. I was stressed, sleep deprived, and also kind of dirty the first week because puppy got super stressed whenever I even left the room so I couldn't even leave to shower. After his initial adjustment anxieties went away, full puppy gear kicked in and I had to deal with chewing, whining, barking, velcro-puppy tendencies, and energizer bunny syndrome, just to name a few. To be quiet honest, things didn't get noticeably better until 3 to 4 weeks later. Now, almost 2 months later, I can honestly say I don't feel regret or the urge to give him away even though frustrating things still come up. So things really will get better as long as you really put in the effort (which sounds like you are!!). But at the same time, you're not going to see too much improvement within the first week or two, so your stress level is not going to decrease much. So to make a decision of whether to keep the puppy or not at the worst of times may not be a fair assessment of whether you can really incorporate her into your life. But it's not fair to the puppy to keep her around just to test it out and then give her away after she's already adjusted and attached to you. So I'm sorry I don't know what advice I can give other than my own experience on the matter of to keep or not to keep!

But other things I can def give advice on since I've just been dealing with the same things!! 

Kongs:
I actually prefer Kong teething sticks rather than the normal ones. The teething stick has tiny grooves on the sides, so I just fill those with peanut butter and freeze it, and it will keep undivided attention for a good 15-20 minutes, and Marcus goes back to it throughout the day as well. So if you get a couple of those, you can give your puppy more to play with and the focus will tire her out more with the same amount of peanut butter used to fill one Kong. Thus, more play and less worry or over feeding!

Making her less "velcro":
I got great advice from someone else on this. The point is to make your puppy choose to hang around you less on her own. So when you need to do reading for classes, you can grab your book, read it and be boring and ignore your dog, although let her hang around you still. The moment she settles down to watch you, move to a different room. When she follows you, do the same things in that room. When she settles, move to a different room again. Keep doing it till following you = boring, and she may just sit in between the rooms to watch you. Then, get her a REALLY good treat and tether it to one of the rooms. She can now choose to follow you or to go for the treat. Since you are boring, she'll go for the treat instead of following you. Then you can leave, then reenter the room, starting with just seconds and work your way up. Then your going and leaving will just be no big deal to her. At this point you can leave the house a few seconds and work your way up again. Do this for maybe 10-15 minutes everyday, and it's worked pretty well for me.

Obedience training:
Start asap!! It's actually really fun! I think the clicker training method is really good. You don't even need a clicker, you can just say "yes" or something instead of clicking. Kikopup is a good youtube source for this. Definitely did wonders for me. You can also youtube all sorts of other cool tricks to teach your pooch, so it'll be like game time instead of a chore of tiring your dog out, even though it does just that! Petco/Petsmart classes is hit or miss. I'm actually enrolled in one. In terms of training, it's not the greatest, since a lot of the stuff I've actually already done on my own pretty well so it's not that rewarding in that since. But the chance to play with other puppies and socialize is really good. Oh, just saw the comment on those classes being distracting. Definitely true. But if you already started obedience work on your own and it's going well, you can use it as a chance to proof your commands! (That was def true for me).

Toys:
I think you said somewhere she's not interested in toys? Mine started out that way too, and i actually had to sort of train him to like his chew toys. Whenever you see him showing any interest in a toy, praise him like crazy and use the toy to play with her to encourage the behavior. Keep doing that and the toy itself becomes self-reinforcing!

This is really turning into an essay, so I'll stop now. Hopefully things are improving for you and good luck no matter what decision you make!


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Just wanted to say I'm glad it seems to be looking a bit more positive!  Sometimes, people post when they're at a high level of frustration, and need some advice! That's kind of what the original post sounded like. Now, as things are calming down a bit, and you are absorbing some advice, things don't seem nearly as bad. 

Just to add my 2 cents:
- kongs are great! And, as someone said, not just for destructive dogs. All dogs, will, at some point, get bored. Kongs can really help a dog be independent, and NOT become as clingly, because they get used to entertaining themselves.
- we use mostly peanut butter and then freeze them, but occasionally use cottage cheese or yogurt in our kongs.
- training can help give your pup confidence, and help you bond. Classes are great, but you can do it on your own. It's not the same because you don't have the instructor guiding you, but it's a start!
- Good luck on finding a new vet! 
Keep us posted!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I see the OP hasn't been back... Perhaps she didn't like what we said. :S.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> I see the OP hasn't been back... Perhaps she didn't like what we said. :S.


I really don't understand the point of posts like these. Why did you feel the need to say that on a topic that hasn't been touched for 6 days?


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> I see the OP hasn't been back... Perhaps she didn't like what we said. :S.


Why if someone doesn't respond in a while is it always assumed that its because they "don't like what we said"? What if they just got busy and haven't had time and/or forgot to come back and check the responses? It seemed clear from the OPs last posts that they are trying to do what is best by the dog, I don't know why you needed to come drag this back up to make a jab at the OP...


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I didn't make a jab at anyone, its just that's usually what happens whwn someone doesn't like what they read. I wasn't jabbing anyone, it seems as tho the only one making a jab is you, at me 
NP tho, its used to put joking expression on internet text, it is easy to misread.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Well maybe some don't like the advice they are given and therefore don't come back, but I think its very unfair to paint everyone with the same brush. Like I said, it seemed to me from the OPs previous post that s/he is trying to do what is best by the dog.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> I didn't make a jab at anyone, its just that's usually what happens whwn someone doesn't like what they read. I wasn't jabbing anyone, it seems as tho the only one making a jab is you, at me
> NP tho, its used to put joking expression on internet text, it is easy to misread.


I don't even think the joke is funny though. "Haha, the OP hasn't posted, probably because they disliked what people said AND chose to react immaturely by running away! LOL! Isn't that hilarious!"

Yeah I don't get it. I also think it's harmful, because if the OP has left because they "didn't like the information" then jokes like that do nothing. If the OP hasn't left, they're going to get defensive because you've accused them of being immature (joking or not) and that's just one more obstacle in the way of the good information possessed by the people on this forum helping the OP and the dog.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Im not accusing anyone of anything, if I had wanted to be nasty there are tons of other things I could have said, but didn't:
1)You are a CAT person & you dog a puppy as a first dog??? WTF???
2)FYI... Puppies whine... Get over it!!!

But those rude comments didn't even pop into my head cuz im not like that. But i have seen similar threads like this where someone said "guess the OP didn't like what was said" & everyone has a chuckle over it, i dont understand why this occasion is any different but ppl sometimes say things that dont come out right, or csn be rude... Which i wasn't on purpose.

But i have seen the DW thread full of ppl rudely telling the OP that "if you just searched for DW you could have found a wealth or info" or making jabs at the OP & DW himself. That's all I will say on this, I don't want to take this thread too far off topic.

Just saying.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Im not accusing anyone of anything, if I had wanted to be nasty there are tons of other things I could have said, but didn't:
> 1)You are a CAT person & you dog a puppy as a first dog??? WTF???
> 2)FYI... Puppies whine... Get over it!!!
> 
> ...


Oh, okay, a "everyone else does it, so it's fine if I do it too" response. I, personally, chose to respond to this post (though I do have the same negative reaction every time someone else does it) because of the fact that you made your post 6 days after the thread had stopped having activity, the OP had already posted enough to demonstrate a desire to make her situation work and the ability to take criticism/suggestions, I had posted previously in the thread and considered myself involved in the discussion, and previously in the thread a couple people noted that it "seemed like the OP had disappeared" and the OP even came back and said that she hadn't received email notifications of more than the first two responses. 

I do agree that the thread is now off topic (although I still don't understand why you would revive a dead thread with a comment like that), and I am afraid that I'm getting close to being a "back-seat moderator", so I will also stop posting about this.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

dogdragoness said:


> I see the OP hasn't been back... Perhaps she didn't like what we said. :S.


 
Well, the thread had died and sunk to the 3rd or 4th page until you drug it back out to comment. Now it's going to be locked so it can go back to the bottom...


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