# Sabina - (again)



## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

So, I guess our issue is turning into a little joke. Many of you may have heard/remember me talking about my town's Neighborhood Committee Manager's "irritation" towards Sabina's possible breeding... Now, our town Supervisor is somewhat stepping in and proposes that instead of doing a DNA test, it I find time to ask people to take a poll on what breeds they think she is made up of (ugh, politicians!)...depending on what the majority says, we'll take extensive blood-work testing from there...  I'm not sure if he thinks this situation is so stupid that he wants to "vote" as amusement, or if he's actually serious and thinks that what the majority says should be want taken as true and therefore that would be the proof that will shut that woman up...

[original topic:
http://www.dogforums.com/8-dog-pictu...d-dog-may.html (Help - Adopted dog - may be an issue) ]

So again, I ask you as my dog-experts... what type of GSD ix is she? *Please, be as honest and truthful as possible...*

Background info/characteristics:
- 2 yro GSD mix
- agopted from SPCA, old older = abuse, mistreatment, she was starved
- Very energetic
- loves to swim in the water
- shorter-thin coat, somewhat water resistant top layer
- Thinner tail (not as thin as in the pics, we has to shave it a bit because she developed a rash due to an allergy and she kept chewing on it)..tail has a slight curve to it... when she "trots" around she sometimes carries it like a hook over her back.
- Webbed toes
- about 55-60lbs
- I haven't actually measured her but I'm guessing she's around 25-27inches tall.
- over all body structure; not very broad or heavily muscled...just a light toning.

*Pictures: I couldn't get a ground level shot of her because she would always come running up to me when I bent down...so most of them are shot from an angle looking slightly down on her (so she's not really that wide or stubby - lol).

























^^^ she looks like a bat


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

^^^ that's how puffy/thin her tail normally is, before she trimmed the fur (and yes, she does have front legs)
























^^^ pic from the SPCA... (a bit of an odd angle)

Again, I am so sorry about this. I know it is so foolish and I honestly do not intend to sound like a drama queen. I honestly do not see what's the "big deal" in this case...I think people should just leave Sabina alone... 

Thank you all in advance.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Hello Equest94,Right firstly cant believe they are even doing this its ridiculous whats she going to do kill everyone in town she looks so innocent.Right on to the breed now its a strange one because if you had'nt put all of the pics on i would have said GSD and another breed i was unaware of(sure the experts on D.F. will do)but for me its photos 1 and 5 which resemble a Pit mix.You said be as honest as possible and anyway Pits are beautiful dogs and lovely pets in the right hands.


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## Pepperduck (Jan 23, 2008)

I agree and think this is absolutely ridiculous. Ah! This bothers me to no end!

I didn't know you were going through this kind of issue. I really cannot believe someone would do that. I am so sorry.

I personally know this dog and these pictures do not do this girl justice.

She looks so down to earth and happy and she truly loves you. You did a good thing in adopting her and giving her another chance. I know you probably don't really care for my opinion based on this, but I personally do not see pit or any common bully breed in her. I see lab though. You even said she has webbed toes and loves water. If the dog experts at the shelter said she was a GSD X Retriever mix... then just go with that. She's a German Shepherd Labrador retriever mix.

In picture 5 she does look a bit wide in the chest, but her face says lab to me. Picture 7 is the one that I can see bully in her, but I think most of it has to deal with the angle and shadowing; in all the other pictures I *honestly* see lab (or possibly some other sporting/water/hunting-hound dog). Not a typical bully breed. I'm not saying it to make you feel better; that's what I really think.

Hey, just get the DNA test, I'm curious and want to prove I am right. (just kidding.) Hang in there - good luck

(keep me updated!!!)

I found some GSD/ Labs online:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images11/SpockShepLabMix.jpg
^ black dog, and a bit blurry, but he seem like he has the same shape and look as Sabina
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images10/mixMollyAREAShepLab.jpg
^ she has a wide chest too (but inherited the floppy ears)
http://www.sheprescue.org/images/sheiba best face.jpg
^ has a bit of a longer coat, but thta's the same face shape, etc


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## ChrissyBz (Aug 10, 2007)

I see lab and gsd personally. Especially in the 3, 4, and 6. I would just tell them that unless she causes a problem, to stop harrassing you. It's obvious from the chick pic she's got no issues with chickens. That's too funny.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

People are crazy and things like this just prove it. She is a lovely dog that is loved by a family. If she is not a threat to anyone else then why in the world should anyone care what MIX she MAY or MAY NOT be? Give me a break! My heart goes out to you, this should NEVER happen.


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## petstar (Dec 7, 2007)

Are pits or mixes outlawed in your area? This seems ridiculous. Unless there is some clearly defined BSL laws in your area I think this infringes on your rights. She doesn't look like a pit at all. There are many uneducated people who assume that a dog with short hair, muscular build and slightly larger head must have pit in the lineage but that description fits many breeds and mixes. 

Not all dogs with black tongues are chow mixes
Not all dogs with short black fur are lab mixes
Not all dogs have identifiable lineage 
Not all dogs are mixed with two purebred dogs

This is silly. What right do these people have to do anything even if she is a purebred (but incredibly ugly) pitbull? She doesn't look like a pit, she isn't hurting anyone or acting aggressively. I have to assume that you are being responsible with her and keeping behind secure fences or on leash so I don't understand how this is any of their business. 

...and I have never in my life heard of a politician making such an incredibly stupid request. How would your poll of a biased community with varied levels of knowledge and experience validate your dog's lineage?

None of this makes any sense.


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

Mr Pooch - Thank you. I did ask for a honest answer and you did give me yours; I appreciate it. I personally have nothing against pits or any other "bully" breed. I have come across many and they have ALL been wonderful.

Pepperduck - I would always love to hear your opinion. You are the one who has seen my dog in person and therefore you know how she really looks and what her characteristics are. Thank you for the picture links.

ChrissyBz - see no one else cares, but our new Neighborhood Committee Manager. She feels it's her duty to make the neighborhood safe (and it is), but she's taking her job way too far. She claims that she breeds Labs and that my dog doesn't have any lad in her and therefore must be a pit-mix. I think she's nuts. Sabina is VERY animal friendly; she just doesn't like other dogs. She's great with the chickens, she loves our red rooster because he "plays" with her (well, in reality she's playing and he's getting defensive and is on the attack..but she doesn't know the difference, lol). Her favorite animal is our horse; she loves to jump up and give her kisses (although the mare isn't too fond of her).

Inga - I know, it is absolutely ridiculous! As soon as things look like they are settling down, something flares up about it again.

Petsar - it really doesn't make sense. There aren't and BSLs regarding any dogs in general, but due to an incident that happened a few years ago involving a pit mix, people who own certain breeds that are "deemed as aggressive" will have to pay extra on their homeowner's insurance tax to cover any potential issues. This can range from and extra $500-$1,000...which we can't afford... so if things get pushed over far enough and if she's found to have a "bully" breed (or other "aggressive") we would have to give her away. It's so incredibly stupid, but it's just not us who are getting attacked with this. I've met our town supervisor and he seems really nice and so on, so I think he's thinking that our NCM is being a "tard" and is "playing this game" just to shut her up...but idk... I just want to all to be over.


See, I have heard of a lot of shelters lying about a dog's breeding in order to make them more adoptable, but the SPCA where we got Sabina from had other pits and pit mixes that they openly labeled as so...so if their dog experts didn't think she had lab, why would they say that's what she was crossed with? I always figured she was a GSD X Lab... crosses of the two breeds that were not necessarily up to par with breed standards, but I didn't think otherwise until these speculations and accusations started... and now all this...


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## petstar (Dec 7, 2007)

http://www.war-online.org/Which_dog.htm


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## ChrissyBz (Aug 10, 2007)

Ok, I have a lab who's face shape is almost the same as Sabina's

I tried to find the best pictures that show this. I don't really have any good pics of just her looking in the camera. But these two show it a bit, I think.



















The second one is so dark. Not all Labs have the big blocky heads. What exactly is she basing her conclusions on? Face shape? Body? What?


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

ChrissyBz said:


> Ok, I have a lab who's face shape is almost the same as Sabina's
> 
> I tried to find the best pictures that show this. I don't really have any good pics of just her looking in the camera. But these two show it a bit, I think.
> 
> ...


I'm not too sure exactly. She just said: "I breed Labs and I can tell you that your dog does not have any trace of lab, or any other type of retriever, in her." So I'm not sure if it's just a bias statement because her dogs are "quality" and Sabina doesn't meet the breed standards for either breed (GSD or Lab). It could also be because she's smaller and not to mention that she's a recuse and you know.. "all dogs that come from a shelter have to be pit bull crosses."


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## ChrissyBz (Aug 10, 2007)

Well, IMNSHO, she's an idiot. Just let it go already. Gee Whiz.


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## Renoman (Mar 20, 2007)

That woman needs to get a freakin life.

She has way too much free time on her hands if she's got her knickers so bunched up about one dog.....

Lots of breeds have that boxy/block shaped head, including some shepherds..


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

I see shepherd and lab. In pic 1 and 5 I could see someone thinking the boxy chest means pit but there are so many other dogs with boxy chests too. What about boxers? Does she have a problem with them?


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

So far her problem breeds are:

- Pit bulls (American, American Staffies, English Staffies, etc)
- Pit mixes
- American Bulldogs
- Dobermans
- larger Rotties (omg, like size really matters)


I honestly don't think this lady is too familiar with dogs except for the "General breeds." I'm not sure about boxers... in my town we don't have many breeds. (I wonder why...)

*You know, I'm surprised she isn't all ruffled about Sabina being GSD...I figured that would be one the list too. Oh well.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Equest94 said:


> So far her problem breeds are:
> 
> - Pit bulls (American, American Staffies, English Staffies, etc)
> - Pit mixes
> ...


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## petstar (Dec 7, 2007)

American bulldogs don't even crack the list of most commonly reported bite cases. Labs, however....

Again, do you live in an area with BSL laws? If not then let it go. There is nothing she or anyone else can do about it. 

Oh...and I don't care if she breeds rocks into champion dogs, that gives her no ability to distinguish a mutt's lineage.


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

Im sorry you are still dealing with dumb people. Tell Sabina she looks like a doggie princess to me


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## SMoore (Nov 9, 2007)

What about GSD/belgian malinoi. I see it in the chest a bit and some of the facial markings.

http://www.shepherdrescue.org/images/available_dogs/timmy1-1sm.jpg Is a pic of a GSD/Malinoi mix. This one has the broader chest.

Another GSD/Malinoi mix: http://www.gsrsv.org/AbbyGozaStanding.jpg


I also kind of see pitt or staffie but maybe like others said and lab. Also, I suppose it doesn't only have to be two different breeds. Could be a good ol' fashioned heinz 57!

Also can someone bring me up to date? What exactly was the problem this lady had with your dog? Was hers not as pretty?!


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

SMoore said:


> What about GSD/belgian malinoi. I see it in the chest a bit and some of the facial markings.
> 
> http://www.shepherdrescue.org/images/available_dogs/timmy1-1sm.jpg Is a pic of a GSD/Malinoi mix. This one has the broader chest.
> 
> ...


^^^Haha! Probably. 

(see, someone also suggest Malinoi, but I'd imagine she would have a different fur coat and possibly a tad of a longer and narrower face/muzzle. She's not a very wide dog [as she looks in the pictures] and she's not super muscled. I think she has a very "sporty" frame and she has a shorter coat - it has longer hairs, it's just very thin...due to her characteristics and appearance, we assume she's mixed with some sporting/water dog or hound...some one also suggested boxer and another said she's mostly GSD with a tad of Rhodesian Ridgeback???? So I'm lost. lol)

No, you know, I'm honestly not too sure what bit her in the ass about this. From my understanding, there was an incident that happened a few years ago (4 years before we moved into this town) involving a young child and a Pit mix. I guess the dog, who was still fairly young, was playing with the child and their play started getting rougher...the dog not realizing his strength started "mouthing" the child and "chewed him up." The child needed some medical treatment and because pit bulls have a bad rep. things kind of exploded from there. There are no BSLs in this area (that I know of), but due to that incident, people who own certain breeds of dogs that are "deemed as aggressive" will be fined extra in their home owner's insurance taxes. So you can keep any breed of dog, but you might have to pay more... So anyways, this lady... She's our newly elected Neighborhood Committee Manager; I guess rumors got to her that Sabina is a pit mix and while walking her "champion-bred" lab down our road, Sabina (who doesn't like other dogs) threw a bit of a fit when she saw the other dog (she just barked, growled, snapped, tried lunging towards it, etc)... I had her tied up outside, so it's not like she could actually go after the dog; however, the lady deemed this as "aggressive behavior" not only toward her dog, but towards her and other people...hence... the rumors must be true, Sabina must be a pit mix. 

Sabina is a SPCA recuse; she came from a very abusive situation, but she's surprisingly very friendly towards people once she meets them, but is suspicious of strangers (at first) and cannot tolerate other dogs... but no, this lady isn't taking Sabina's past life into account...she's just a "naturally aggressive dog" and could potential snap and become a "killer."  So since it's this woman's job to make the neighbor prettier and safer...I must follow the rules and pay extra on insurance since I have an "aggressive mix." It's not the GSD in her, it's not lab...it's the potential of pit or other 'bully" blood that will make me pay extra... and since I can't afford to pay that much, if things get pushed further and she is found to have pit/bully in her, I'll have to give her up.

It's also because of Sabina's smaller/shorter stature that this woman thinks she's a pit cross (labs are pretty heavy built... pits are short and very wide in all aspects). Oh and not to mention, her shorted coat. I mean, in the pictures my dog looks a bit wider (especially in the last one -she just looks so uncharacteristically blocky and just awkward in that one), but in reality she's a bit more refined. He's not a huge animal, but she's not small either. She's pretty strong, but when I play tug-o-war with her, she never "locks on" to the toy...she always has to adjust her grip, so I imagine she doesn't have that bully "lock-jaw" characteristic... Like I said before, I didn't doubt her being lab (or some water-sporting dog/ hound) until all this talk happened... I mean, if she's not acting like a German Shepherd, her characteristics seem more like Lab to me... 

I mean like you said she could be a GSD mix with everything else... Another thing about mixes; you never know what traits are going to be expressed, some may not be up to the breed's standards, but that doesn't mean that she isn't that breed...

I think what makes me feel so bad is also the notion of deceivement; somewhere someone lied to me regarding my dog and now we are the one's that have to pay for it. It was either the shelter where we got her from or the lady who is making these accusations. Either way, I already lost a dog last June...I really can't deal with losing another (especially over some stupid incident like this!).


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## SMoore (Nov 9, 2007)

That's so silly. I work at a pet store and constantly see pitts/staffie pure bred and mixed dogs. They're wonderful pets. 

One of the dog trainers at the place I work has only ever had one serious dog bite that needed medical attention and it was from a customers Black Lab that slipped his collar in the store and freaked out when she tried to stop the dog from getting through the sliding doors.

She raises and breeds Pit Bulls but her worst bite was from a lab. So she can't stand the negative attention they get just because the press likes to focus on it.

You never hear about the good things the breed can do. One of the police officers on campus at the school I go to uses an American Pit Bull Terrier as his police dog and i've also heard them being used to search and find drugs, therapy drugs, etc...

In any case your dog is beautiful and I hope it doesn't cause too much trouble if your dog happens to be a pit mix.

Maybe direct your neighbor to this website so she can learn a few things before she judges every single dog of a certain breed.


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## petstar (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm so confused. Do you think your dog is mixed with a "bully" breed? What in the world makes you think someone lied to you? The shelter workers do their best to correctly identify breeds but no one can guess with 100% accuracy what your mutt's lineage is without seeing her sire and dam. Most reputable shelters would NOT lie about a dog's heritage to see it adopted out sooner. There are very few shelters and rescues where that practice is common place and this does not seem like one of them. 

Furthermore, this lady can NOT make you pay more for your insurance. Only your insurance company can and unless an insurance inspector comes out to your house, sees your dog and feels she is mixed with a "potentially dangerous breed" then you have NOTHING to worry about. Your insurance company will likely take your shelter documents as proof of her heritage and leave it alone. To be completely honest, your dog looks absolutely nothing like a pit or "bully". She looks like a shepherd mix. She shouldn't be tied in your yard either...especially if she isn't dog friendly and acts wary of strangers. Tethered dogs are far more likely to injure themselves or someone else. 

The bottom line...Why not try to find a rescue for her? You've posted about this multiple times, the majority of people who have responded have concurred that she does not resemble a bully breed or mix. (Not that our opinions matter because we are not experts at guessing lineage based on grainy, digital photos). You seem to be taking this all very personally and instead of brushing it off (since there is nothing that can come of these threats), you are playing into this dramatic notion that you have been lied to. 

You have said that you have experience with "pit bulls"...Did she strike you as a mix when you adopted her? Obviously not. So what makes you think the shelter workers thought any different? If you are honestly willing to believe that some crazed, breeder of labs is an EXPERT on excluding ALL retriever breeds from your dog's lineage while glancing at your dog in passing, than I suggest you find someone who can help you get a grasp on the reality of the situation.

I don't mean to come off so harshly...I'm just concerned for your dog. If she is at serious risk of losing placement because you can't afford a higher premuim because someone is threatening that your costs will increase then you should consider finding her another home.


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

petstar said:


> I'm so confused. Do you think your dog is mixed with a "bully" breed? What in the world makes you think someone lied to you? The shelter workers do their best to correctly identify breeds but no one can guess with 100% accuracy what your mutt's lineage is without seeing her sire and dam. Most reputable shelters would NOT lie about a dog's heritage to see it adopted out sooner. There are very few shelters and rescues where that practice is common place and this does not seem like one of them.
> 
> Furthermore, this lady can NOT make you pay more for your insurance. Only your insurance company can and unless an insurance inspector comes out to your house, sees your dog and feels she is mixed with a "potentially dangerous breed" then you have NOTHING to worry about. Your insurance company will likely take your shelter documents as proof of her heritage and leave it alone. To be completely honest, your dog looks absolutely nothing like a pit or "bully". She looks like a shepherd mix. She shouldn't be tied in your yard either...especially if she isn't dog friendly and acts wary of strangers. Tethered dogs are far more likely to injure themselves or someone else.
> 
> ...


Wow. I greatly apologize for personally irritating you with my situation. I do/did appreciate all of your advice, but right now you seem to be stating what I said regarding the insurance as if I do not understand the concept of how this is to go about. I know that this woman cannot personally raise my insurance, but she is the one who has the authority to call for the actions needed regarding the inspector. The reason why I am so nervous is because this lady will not let it go..the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" it is because of her that this is escalating and in fact, an insurance agent was called down to investigate my dog (he's coming at the end of March) and we were told that he is to disregard the shelter papers and act solely on his "expertise." To answer your questions and to make this less confusing to you, no, Sabina did not strike me as a bully mix when I adopted her. What makes me feel like I was lied to, is because people, including the Shelter we got her for asked us if she was one of the pit mixes when we brought her back for a following check-up...even though they had the papers on record..."no, you said she was a GSD/Retriever mix"..."Oh, really? Oh, ok. Nevermind then" (that strikes me to be an odd statement made by their dog "expert") plus on top of hearing about how shelters occasionally do lie, I am started to feel a bit "pushed-around" in this. Why not try to find a rescue for her? -because I want my dog, I do not want to give her away, I am hoping things will just work out. I am doing my best to brush this off, but when I am currently attending school on the other side of the state, and all I am hearing is how things are getting a bit testy back at home, it makes me a little more then stressed out. I posted about this situation countless times because I remembered being asked to keep people on here updated... this is an update...if you read the first post, I was telling about the ridiculous request the town supervisor made. Why this sounds so redundant, is because I have to keep explaining what initially started this. As for tethering my dog up outside I do not leave her out unattended. I let her out to do her business, and momentarily tied her up so I could get the mail (so she won't follow me down to the road, and so she wouldn't run after the other dog).

Honestly, as I have mentioned, I do appreciate your advice, but this last post seems a bit rude. I'm sorry if you do not want to hear about this any longer, if you don't, then just ignore this post. There are other people who have answered me, and just gave me their opinion. I appreciate you caring for my dog, but yes, you did come off as demeaning me and making me seem like a terrible nuisance.

As I have mentioned, I just lost my first dog to a tragic accident and I really do not want to lose Sabina. Forgive me for being nervous about this and falling into that notion.


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## jcd (Nov 20, 2007)

Equest94 said:


> ^^^Haha! Probably.
> 
> (see, someone also suggest Malinoi, but I'd imagine she would have a different fur coat and possibly a tad of a longer and narrower face/muzzle. She's not a very wide dog [as she looks in the pictures] and she's not super muscled. I think she has a very "sporty" frame and she has a shorter coat - it has longer hairs, it's just very thin...due to her characteristics and appearance, we assume she's mixed with some sporting/water dog or hound...some one also suggested boxer and another said she's mostly GSD with a tad of Rhodesian Ridgeback???? So I'm lost. lol)
> 
> ...



get a high power lawyer and suit the township for discrimination,a million or so should shut them up!! good luck...i feel for ya. your dog is very pretty!!


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## petstar (Dec 7, 2007)

I guess you missed the part of my post where I said I didn't mean to come off so harshly. I apologize for seeming that way. I am concerned for your dog. Is she not currently in your possession while you are in school? Did you or your family give this woman your insurance policy information? 

Is your insurance company willing to take a written statement from a vet or another knowledgeable professional? 

I hope you don't take this as harsh critique, but tethering your dog for any length of time can end up with results like this...She was frustrated no doubt by the passing of another dog with her unscrupulous and ignorant owner. Do you have her in obedience classes or is she seeing a behaviorist to work on some of her issues? Perhaps that would temporarily pacify this woman. 

It sounds like whatever damage she can inflict has already taken place so I would avoid any more confrontations with her if at all possible. Until then, I truley hope for both you and the sake of your dog that this all pans out.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Equest,dont get nervous or anxious about Sabina,im sure everything is going to pan out ok you'll see,Take care Mr Pooch.


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

No. I don't have my dog with me at school. I am very fortunate to have great parents who are willing to put in their time to take care of all of my pets while I am away.

I'm not sure whether or not they gave the lady our insurance policies or how much info they gave her. From what I hear, someone is suppose to be coming by to reassess our house and property, I'm assuming it's the same person who will also take a look at Sabina and then go on from there depending on what he finds her to be. My understanding is that he is suppose to examine/look at her and state his opinion on what she is crossed with. Then, after once his belief is recorded, he can then look at the vet records and shelter papers and then re-analyze things. So I'm not sure what happens after that...I guess we either get a huge bill or not.


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## jcd (Nov 20, 2007)

Equest94 said:


> No. I don't have my dog with me at school. I am very fortunate to have great parents who are willing to put in their time to take care of all of my pets while I am away.
> 
> I'm not sure whether or not they gave the lady our insurance policies or how much info they gave her. From what I hear, someone is suppose to be coming by to reassess our house and property, I'm assuming it's the same person who will also take a look at Sabina and then go on from there depending on what he finds her to be. My understanding is that he is suppose to examine/look at her and state his opinion on what she is crossed with. Then, after once his belief is recorded, he can then look at the vet records and shelter papers and then re-analyze things. So I'm not sure what happens after that...I guess we either get a huge bill or not.


i ask you again, have you mentioned a lawsuit? let this cost the township a bundle and you'll see it stop. the same goes for the insurance company. let them prove it ,....... they can't! suit them for harrasment, 1 million !

talk to a lawyer unless you already did. did you?


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## Equest94 (Oct 3, 2007)

jcd said:


> i ask you again, have you mentioned a lawsuit? let this cost the township a bundle and you'll see it stop. the same goes for the insurance company. let them prove it ,....... they can't! suit them for harrasment, 1 million !
> 
> talk to a lawyer unless you already did. did you?



Oh, sorry for not responding to you earlier. My dad said that if they do "convict" Sabina then there will be some sort of lawsuit...I mean we have papers that say she is a GSD X Retriever (lab) and if they do not accept those, then something will happen. Right now, my parent's are tying not to feed the fire, especially since no real action was taken yet. They are keeping calm and hoping this just pans out at the moment... but we'll see what happens in March when the inspector comes.


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## ChrissyBz (Aug 10, 2007)

I so feel your pain and aggravation. I can't believe some people! Where's a cork when you need one eh?


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