# Can antibiotics (namely Metronidazole and Baytril) make a dog worse?



## PomPomMom (Aug 22, 2013)

I have a 17 y.o. Pomeranian who means the world to me. Until this last year, she has been fairly healthy. Then she got a gallbladder issue (which according to the vets I currently have I still don't completely understand - and which is why after 17 years I'm changing vets and probably trying a "hollistic" vet). 

So she started taking Ursodial for her gallbladder (sluggish bile) issue. Then in January she got very sick. Apparently she had pancreatitis. She was given both metro and baytril and she did get better. For quite a while she continued on the metro, eventually going to a half tablet every other day (while the Baytril completely stopped). 

Back in July she went for some more blood work as I thought she was acting a bit sluggish and sick. The vet said that while most of her numbers were the same (still a big on the "high" side but not super high) her white blood cell count was elevated so he said to go back to doing ONE WHOLE TABLET of Metro every day. Within barely a 2 week period she seemed WORSE (not moving, not eating). I no longer wanted her to take it and so the doctor gave her Baytril.

Within ONE DOSE of Baytril she was acting better. HOWEVER, within a week I started to notice she was back to seeming ill. She would sleep endlessly and many days I could get not an ounce of food in her until 8 at night, and then it would be a very small amount.

Yesterday, and by no means intentional, while she got her other supplements and medication (denamarin, pepcid, dasaquin and ursodial) she did NOT get the Baytril.

And today, she was like a puppy again. Alert, looking forward to her walk, barking, EATING! I couldn't get over how much she ate. She snuggled with me and was awake more than asleep. I couldn't get over the change. So of course I then wondered if it was the antibiotics making her worse - the metro initially *and* then the baytril.

My particular lifestyle (for me) is healthy, supplemented, and hollistic oriented. However, when I got my little girl (in my 20s) that was *not* who I was, so I went to a regular vet. Today I made an appt with our towns first hollistic vet. I just think many of these meds (and vaccinations) are worse for them rather then better - and I'm wondering if that is the case with the metro and baytril.

But I wanted to know if I was imagining things. I was in tears yesterday when she just laid on the floor all day, same spot, not eating and barely drinking. The difference today is amazing - and I think I noticed this same thing another time she missed a dose of the antibiotics.

Any thoughts on any of the above is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

I found this Yahoo group to be very helpful. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/dogpancreatitis/

Many of the dogs in the group have secondary conditions in addition to pancreatitis. All, if not most have been prescribed Metro, with varying results. Might be worth it for you to join?

What are you feeding her?


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## PomPomMom (Aug 22, 2013)

Namely Prescription ID and ZD. She prefers the ID and the vet said that was ok. She has a little bit of milk every morning (she's like a cat lol) and some lean roast beef. What she eats some days seems like its not enough to feed a bird. Do you have any thoughts about the antibiotics? She seems to be so much better without them.

Thanks.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I can see antibiotics not making her feel that great. Maybe you could give probiotics as well as antibiotics (not at the same time) to see if that will help her? But I'm seriously no expert so take my suggestions by a grain of salt.

Have you ever considered changing her diet?

If you are up for it, you could try raw rabbit as her main diet. We have an elderly pom with pancreatitis who is on raw rabbit as her primary diet (organs and everything) and her owners have seen a big improvement in the dog's overall health. Rabbits are low in fat so a good choice of protein for dogs suffering from pancreatitis.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

PomPomMom said:


> Namely Prescription ID and ZD. She prefers the ID and the vet said that was ok. She has a little bit of milk every morning (she's like a cat lol) and some lean roast beef. What she eats some days seems like its not enough to feed a bird. Do you have any thoughts about the antibiotics? She seems to be so much better without them.
> 
> Thanks.


Hills ID low-fat certainly works well for pancreatic dogs. There are other options for feeding. You want to stay with easily digestible foods that are lower than 10 %, (ideally 6% per dry matter – be careful not to be mislead by canned, which typically shows 5%, but converts to 15-25%). 
Some options are Honest Kitchen Preference (add your own protein) or Zeal (smelly fish based), Purina E/N (script needed), Royal Canin Low-fat digestive (script needed and available at PetSmart). Core Wellness Simple fish-based is about 12% fat, but some pancreatic dogs seem to do well with it. Pebbles went from 6 feedings of chicken/non-fat cottage cheese, to Hills, to Purina EN to Wellness. She is now down to 3 meals a day. She still has days where she won’t eat at all. For those days, I give her Tramadol and let her fast until she’s hungry again. 

I can't get antibiotics in Pebbles for anything, so though Metro was prescribed, she never actually got them. Tylan may be an optional substitute for you. With your Pom having a high white cell count, I would not be too quick to stop anti-biotics. My vet also suggested pro-biotics and pepsid. I've had 2 pancreatic dogs and neither of these helped my dogs, though others in the pancreatic group do well with them. If you join the group, you will get some helpful feedback on the Metro.

It's not unusual for pancreatic dogs to not eat for a day or two, which can be very disconcerting when you're feeding a low-fat food to a thinning dog. On those days I've had success with boiled, skinless chicken breast and non-fat cottage cheese. Occasionally I add a little bit of pasta to help maintain her weight.


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## PomPomMom (Aug 22, 2013)

3doglady said:


> Hills ID low-fat certainly works well for pancreatic dogs. There are other options for feeding. You want to stay with easily digestible foods that are lower than 10 %, (ideally 6% per dry matter – be careful not to be mislead by canned, which typically shows 5%, but converts to 15-25%).
> Some options are Honest Kitchen Preference (add your own protein) or Zeal (smelly fish based), Purina E/N (script needed), Royal Canin Low-fat digestive (script needed and available at PetSmart). Core Wellness Simple fish-based is about 12% fat, but some pancreatic dogs seem to do well with it. Pebbles went from 6 feedings of chicken/non-fat cottage cheese, to Hills, to Purina EN to Wellness. She is now down to 3 meals a day. She still has days where she won’t eat at all. For those days, I give her Tramadol and let her fast until she’s hungry again.
> 
> I can't get antibiotics in Pebbles for anything, so though Metro was prescribed, she never actually got them. Tylan may be an optional substitute for you. With your Pom having a high white cell count, I would not be too quick to stop anti-biotics. My vet also suggested pro-biotics and pepsid. I've had 2 pancreatic dogs and neither of these helped my dogs, though others in the pancreatic group do well with them. If you join the group, you will get some helpful feedback on the Metro.
> ...


This is why I wish I had the internet when I (and my dogs) were younger. So much information you do NOT get from the people who are *supposed* to be helping you, namely doctors, and in this case, vet. No one told me about a single side effect of the metro or baytril. NOR did anyone suggest starting my pom on a probiotic - which ironically I just got for her yesterday - after reading on the net how probiotics should be used on a regular basis, and more so if antibiotics are involved. Think my bet could have told me that? I mean, really, the FlotiFlora was only $20!

I never thought about cottage cheese. That's an interesting one. I'll have to add that - though my pom is super picky.

I did get (thankfully) some of the probiotics into her last night. 

What do you think of the following foods (she eats these on a regular basis)

1) Lean, thinly sliced roast beef (she maybe gets a slice a day)
2) Boiled (skinless) chicken leg (She loves chicken so I'll give her a little bit with some of the watery chicken broth).
3) Liverwurst - very small amounts - only to get her pills in her.

Other than that, the only thing she's eating is the Hill's ID. This diet seems very small and very limited. I was giving her (but have stopped) tuna fish (yes, with some of the oil). But I was just getting so worried because she wasn't eating much and I was thinking that her sense of smell was bad and that perhaps something with a high odor would entice her (plus she likes fish, go figure). But I don't give it anymore.


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## PomPomMom (Aug 22, 2013)

That's so interesting. I remember quite a while ago getting her rabbit (forget what make) at the pet store that is part of my vets establishment. I remember she loved it. I never thought to give it to her - though I can't imagine she could be lovely this boring diet she currently has which is some chicken and her Hill's ID (and the one piece a day - if she'll eat it - of roast beef). Per the post below, I am going to get some non-fat cottage cheese and a small box of pasta to add to the chicken. Is it just fat you have to watch out for with pancreatitis? I've heard too much protein is no good either.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

PomPomMom said:


> This is why I wish I had the internet when I (and my dogs) were younger. So much information you do NOT get from the people who are *supposed* to be helping you, namely doctors, and in this case, vet. No one told me about a single side effect of the metro or baytril. NOR did anyone suggest starting my pom on a probiotic - which ironically I just got for her yesterday - after reading on the net how probiotics should be used on a regular basis, and more so if antibiotics are involved. Think my bet could have told me that? I mean, really, the FlotiFlora was only $20!
> 
> I never thought about cottage cheese. That's an interesting one. I'll have to add that - though my pom is super picky.
> 
> ...


An ideal diet (per veterinarians) is around 5%-7% fat and protein around 15%-20%. Personally, I would avoid foods like choose chicken legs, roast beef or liverwurst. What you are looking for is low-fat, moderate protein, easy to digest foods. 
Chicken leg (meat only – roasted) 12% fat
http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-chicken-leg-meat-only-i5082
Chicken breast (meat only – roasted/broiled) 5% fat – cost more, but I look for sales and marked down packages when I’m out shopping. I have found some for as low as $1.00 per pound because the sale date was ready to expire. 
http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-chicken-breast-meat-only-i5064
Fish is a great option, the cod, haddock or flounder are generally ideal, but tuna might work. Check the protein first. I’m finding my setter likes fish based foods also. 

Also found this webpage that may be helpful. http://www.2ndchance.info/pancreatitisdog.htm

Mary Straus, (K-9 nutritionist), runs a website for nutrition, medications and various illnesses. Her perspective is that not all pancreatic dogs require such a low-fat diet and lists some commercial and home cooked options in the 10-12% fat range (bottom of the pancreatitis page). You may find her website helpful.
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjlowfatdiets.html
Balance IT is another source if you’re looking for diet options. They can develop a diet specific for your dog’s issues, in cooperation with your vet.
When I took Pebbles in this time, we saw a vet who was new to the practice. There were a lot of things I had learned from the other vets in the practice and through my own research that she didn’t even mention. I have developed an appreciation for prescription diets.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Just like in people, antibiotics can result in tummy upset for dogs, which could explain the lethargy and unwillingness to eat.

Additionally, in my experience it is normal for dogs to eat less as they get older. My future mother-in-law has a 16 year old toy poodle that weights all of 3 lbs; I swear to God some days that dog is kept alive solely by the couple teaspoons of ginger ale that MIL force feeds her.


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## PomPomMom (Aug 22, 2013)

Hmm, so maybe it was just the medicine making her feel lethargic? I did think that but this dog - up until (really) just recently - ate normal, ran around. Never slept like she does now - even though she is 17. Now I just don't get what is going on. Until I ended the baytril - a few days ago (after being on it for 12 days rather than the 14 prescribed, which I told the vet about) - she was mostly in one spot, sleeping, moving away from her food. I actually sat crying most of the day on Tuesday. Every time she acts like this I think its the end. All I want is to do everything I possibly can for her. 

That first day off Baytril she was like a puppy again! I was thrilled. She was running around, eager to go for her walk - EATING everything I put in front of her. The most food she's eaten in a long while! Now, today, she is sort of laying low again. Back to sleeping, didn't drink her morning milk (which always tells me something is up). I am at wit's end trying to figure out what to do. She started probiotics yesterday and I did manage to get a good amount in her before she figured me out. For some reason, I thought she would be feeling better (or as good as the day before at least) rather than what appears to be worse.

Can someone fill me in? I've mentioned this ad nauseum to 3 different vets at the vet hospital she has been going to for 17 years and I don't get any good answer. Yesterday I was told - well, if she's doing find off the baytril then don't give her any more.

WTH?

And then *I* was the one who had to mention the probiotics - to which the reply was, "oh, hmm, yes that might help." HUH????

BTW, I did sign up for the yahoo group mentioned above but am still waiting to be accepted. Until then, I hope you'll keep on with the good information!


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