# First day at agility class!



## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

Well, my wife and I had our first night at agility class last night. It went about as I expected. I handled our Australian Shepherd(Shiner) my wife handled our cocker(Chewy). Shiner was her typical self, absolutely certifiably nuts. She had by far one of, if not the highest drive in the class, but also the least amount of manners. She wanted to play with everything, on everything, with everyone, and every dog. By the end of the night my shoulders were startin to get pretty sore holding from playing all night.

Chewy did well, he was nervous, had a bit of a drool goin on all night. I knew he was a bit over weight, but the trainers said he was fat. Time to step up the little guys diet.

So, now I need to work on manners in large group settings. She is great at home, obeys very well, and is very intent on anything we are doing. In class she was still listening well and following directions, but as soon as we weren't focused on something she goes into outer space. Any suggestions on how I should work on her obedience in that type of situation?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

If you guys want to do agility and both dogs need work (one to be calmer and more confident, the other to have better impulse control) I cannot recommend too highly the book or dvd "Control Unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt. The exercises were developed to instill calm and control in dogs under stressful/exciting conditions, are all positively (clicker) based and are often recommended for any dog with behaviour issues as well as within the agility field.
This book or dvd (if you are visual learner, get the dvd) is worth it's weight in gold. The book is a bit all over the place on an organizational level, but the exercises are brilliant.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

Agreed Control Unleashed is excellent. What did they have you doing in the first class? Agility should start with foundation skills and no equipment, regardless of whether you want to compete or not.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

I agree with both of the above posters, especially on the point of foundational skills.

Control Unleashed is a wonderful book and I've read it a couple of times. I will say, though, that depending on your dog's issues, large parts of it may be unhelpful to you. IMO, it is tailored towards dogs that get stressed easily, and not so much towards the rambunctious dogs. That's just my take on it.

If you walk Shiner daily, considering adding a stop at a busy park to your rounds. Take a treat bag! At first, it may be that you can only work on leash. Run through every trick you know and think up lots more to teach her. Can she do them while kids are playing ball 10 feet away? As she becomes more attentive to you, you can try unclipping the leash. There's also lots of foundational skills for agility that you can practice at parks: targeting, a really solid stay, solid recall, you can even use trees as obstacles that she has to go around. Soon you will be able to unclip the leash and Shiner will just look up at you expectantly, like "ok, what are you waiting for, let's train!"

How were the other dogs in class handling Shiner's distractability? How about the instructor - was he/she managing the class well so that Shiner wasn't being disruptive? I eventually got fed up with an agility class that I used to be in because there were several distractable dogs who never seemed to improve (I stuck with it for a year), and the instructor never prevented them from interfering with my dog while she was trying to run, or even if she was just minding her own business standing next to me on leash. Frankly, they belonged back in beginning obedience classes. There were other reasons I left that class, but that was a main one. I'm not saying that this is you - just that it's good to keep in mind that others in the class want to get something out of it, too. It's a great sign that after the very first class, you're ready to work on what didn't go well for your dog.

Also, be sure to ask your instructor the same question that you asked here. After all, they are the instructor! My old instructor seemed to think that I knew how to work on my dog's issues (she kept saying "you need more control!), but that I just wasn't doing it out of laziness. I actually had no idea how to fix what I didn't like, and made the mistake of not asking for specific instructions. That went on for a very long time, with both of us getting more and more frustrated.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

I was very careful to never be in anyone's business, or interfering with anyone. I stood back until it was our turn. This is essentially a beginners obedience class, structured around agility. EVERYTHING is done on lead. The first class was introducing dogs to walking on various surfaces, and going through a tunnel.

Once it was time for us to do something, Shiner has great focus and attention on me and the task at hand. It is just the various amounts of down time that pop up waiting for our turn that are the problem.

Edit: While no one said anything to me about it, I am sure people were annoyed. I did a very good job I thought avoiding letting her be in any dog or persons business, so I don't really feel like they had anything to be cross about.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

You have been given tons of great advice here! Control Unleashed (though I haven't implemented all of it yet) has has definitely helped my girl. While you start to work on getting your dog to realize that calm is a good thing (which is a lot of what CU is about), you have to become sort of a one man (or woman!) show when it's not your turn.

We have also done tons of distraction/obedience/flatwork training near dog parks, all on leash (Kimma cannot be trusted off). It works wonders, and I often get asked if I'm a pro trainer while we're working, so I must be doing something right LOL.

Where did you end up going for class? I'm near Houston, too 

ETA - And honestly don't worry about people being annoyed... Kimma is a HUGE barker, and I know for a fact that some in my class must have been driven crazy by her. But in the long run, everyone has been super helpful and really they want the best for my dog, too. Don't be afraid to ask your trainer for some extra help if needed, and your classmates may even prove to be great sources of information, too!


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

lol over simulated and barking/whining dogs is the norm for most first classes. The dogs tend to settle down after the first class and some need some extra help.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

My Cherokee is a dog that needs extra help. I am constantly asking for behaviors and attention. I have to make my treats really tiny since we go through so many. The best trick I have, which was suggested by Shaina, is to put treats in front of him and ask him to "leave it". He can ignore those treats for a long time and it definitely takes all of his concentration which, of course, means he can't be jumping around or whining like an idiot.

A couple of weeks ago I took lots of video of my classmates and, since I wasn't paying attention to Cherokee, there is a running commentary of his whining in the background of all the videos. My trainer commented on it when he saw the videos. He said he normally doesn't hear Cherokee's fussing during class but, hearing him on the video was very comedic.

I think your dog, if she isn't in other dog's space, may be less annoying to other people than than she is to you.







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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

dbulick said:


> I was very careful to never be in anyone's business, or interfering with anyone. I stood back until it was our turn. This is essentially a beginners obedience class, structured around agility. EVERYTHING is done on lead. The first class was introducing dogs to walking on various surfaces, and going through a tunnel.
> 
> Once it was time for us to do something, Shiner has great focus and attention on me and the task at hand. It is just the various amounts of down time that pop up waiting for our turn that are the problem.
> 
> Edit: While no one said anything to me about it, I am sure people were annoyed. I did a very good job I thought avoiding letting her be in any dog or persons business, so I don't really feel like they had anything to be cross about.


We've had dogs like this come to our beginners class, and no one that I know of has taken it personally  Tag was spring loaded his first few nights, but as the weeks went by he became more and more acclimated to it. On our "down time" I'd alternate between practicing stays, and playing little games. He's a joy to take to class.
I've read Control Unleashed. My GSD is rambunctious (OK, on his good days. On his bad days, he's a PITA ). CU *really* helped him learn to focus while in distracting environments. I raised Tag (my agility pup) on CU's methods, and I will never raise another pup without it. 
The thing is...I don't want my dog "calm" at agility. I don't want him lunging and screaming at everything that moves, but I don't want him to sack out and decide napping is more fun. There *is* a happy medium


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

> The thing is...I don't want my dog "calm" at agility. I don't want him lunging and screaming at everything that moves, but I don't want him to sack out and decide napping is more fun. There *is* a happy medium


That is exactly what I told my wife while we were leaving! There were dogs there that could have easily taken the class or left it. I was happy that she was excited and ready to go. IMO it is probably easier to help her with control, than to build that serious excitement and drive.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

It can go both ways... I bet some of those dogs that seemed blah that time will pick it up and then go with it in a few classes. I was SUPER disappointed my first class with Mia. (whom I bought for agility, from lines with MACH dogs in it, etc. Then she got there and was like 'booooring') Summer took right to it her first class, and then the first class Mia thought was boring as can be and had no interest in it at all. By the time we got through a few classes though, Mia was by far more drivey and into it. And I knew she would be eventually. Just at first she had no idea what the point was. Once the game clicked for her, she got faster and faster and faster. 

Then a few weeks later we started having over-excitement. Anyways, long story short is even when I'm not 'playing' with Mia, we're doing something in class. I'm always asking for down/stays and lots and lots of rewards for appropriate, calm behavior. She still screams in anticipation some but overall I can keep her off leash off the equipment when it's not her turn. 

One thing is be really really careful with your overweight dog. I wouldn't jump him if he's got a lot of extra weight on him.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

He is definitely not really overweight, he weighs like 17lbs right now, and should probably be more like 15-16, but being a small dog that is a decent amount of overweight.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> The thing is...I don't want my dog "calm" at agility. I don't want him lunging and screaming at everything that moves, but I don't want him to sack out and decide napping is more fun. There *is* a happy medium


Calm was a bad choice of words, LOL. My brain is dead today for some reason 

But I think you all understand what I mean


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

dbulick said:


> I was very careful to never be in anyone's business, or interfering with anyone. I stood back until it was our turn. This is essentially a beginners obedience class, structured around agility. EVERYTHING is done on lead. The first class was introducing dogs to walking on various surfaces, and going through a tunnel.
> 
> Once it was time for us to do something, Shiner has great focus and attention on me and the task at hand. It is just the various amounts of down time that pop up waiting for our turn that are the problem.
> 
> Edit: While no one said anything to me about it, I am sure people were annoyed. I did a very good job I thought avoiding letting her be in any dog or persons business, so I don't really feel like they had anything to be cross about.


That sounds good. I think it's the people who aren't mindful at all about those things that really make for a bad experience for others. It sounds like you're doing what you can in class, and are more than willing to put in the work outside of class. Like others have said, I think once your dog gets the idea of it all, you may start to see better behavior, even between turns.

There was a sheltie in our old class who was working on staying while distracted. The instructor had the owner keep the dog off leash while others were running courses. The sheltie had a "thing" for my dog, and he would constantly chase poor Kit while she was supposed to be running courses. When it happened, I was supposed to stop what I was doing, turn around, and "yuck!" the sheltie to get it to go away. Problem was, I couldn't emphatically "yuck" the sheltie without confusing my dog! Once, the instructor came at the sheltie with a weave poll (wielding it like a weapon), and ended up scaring Kit off a contact. I was so angry! 

With proper management by the instructor and the owner, rambunctious dogs don't have to be disruptive dogs.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> That sounds good. I think it's the people who aren't mindful at all about those things that really make for a bad experience for others. It sounds like you're doing what you can in class, and are more than willing to put in the work outside of class. Like others have said, I think once your dog gets the idea of it all, you may start to see better behavior, even between turns.
> 
> *There was a sheltie in our old class who was working on staying while distracted. The instructor had the owner keep the dog off leash while others were running courses. The sheltie had a "thing" for my dog, and he would constantly chase poor Kit while she was supposed to be running courses. When it happened, I was supposed to stop what I was doing, turn around, and "yuck!" the sheltie to get it to go away. Problem was, I couldn't emphatically "yuck" the sheltie without confusing my dog! Once, the instructor came at the sheltie with a weave poll (wielding it like a weapon), and ended up scaring Kit off a contact. I was so angry! *With proper management by the instructor and the owner, rambunctious dogs don't have to be disruptive dogs.


Good grief!!! Glad your with a better instructor now, everytime you tell a story of what you endured...........I am amazed and impressed that you continued on any level with classes or agility.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

Ok, had our 2nd night last night. Shiner did MUCH better. She was still crazy and fast and excited, but her concentration during the down time was much better. I worked harder to keep her engaged on me during the down time. We did a full length chute(that was held open at the end not collapsed) she beat me through it with me running beside it. Now I am anything but slow, I ran track in college as a decathlete, so she is moving. Shiner is doing a good job of listening, we did a table today for the first time, and she stayed on the table without a problem until I released her. I think she definitely has some potential, but you never know what it is going to be like off-lead till you try it. 

There were some new dogs in class this week, a good looking little sheltie, a great looking Mal. We are divided up by the small/young dogs, and the big dogs. So since Shiner is still young I am with the small dogs, and I don't really get to see how they are doing. I might try and sneak some peeks next class to see how they do.

Basically everything is 100% gogogo with Shiner, speed is no issue, gotta keep working on control/focus.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

dbulick said:


> Ok, had our 2nd night last night. Shiner did MUCH better. She was still crazy and fast and excited, but her concentration during the down time was much better. I worked harder to keep her engaged on me during the down time. We did a full length chute(that was held open at the end not collapsed) she beat me through it with me running beside it. Now I am anything but slow, I ran track in college as a decathlete, so she is moving. Shiner is doing a good job of listening, we did a table today for the first time, and she stayed on the table without a problem until I released her. I think she definitely has some potential, but you never know what it is going to be like off-lead till you try it.
> 
> There were some new dogs in class this week, a good looking little sheltie, a great looking Mal. We are divided up by the small/young dogs, and the big dogs. So since Shiner is still young I am with the small dogs, and I don't really get to see how they are doing. I might try and sneak some peeks next class to see how they do.
> 
> Basically everything is 100% gogogo with Shiner, speed is no issue, gotta keep working on control/focus.


Are you doing equipment on leash? Most places teach their students foundation skills and get the dogs off leash before introducing equipment.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

Yes the equipment is all done on leash. Actually because this is a beginners class, which is actually essentially a beginners obedience class focused around agility, we are on lead for the whole 8 weeks. Obviously if I send her through a tunnel or chute I have to let go of the leash, but I don't have any problems with her recall in that type of situation. I am still working on a daily basis getting her recall as reliable as possible though.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Following up on my earlier comment about Control Unleashed...

I found a book that I think applies much better for a happy, rambunctious, confident dog: Shaping Success by Susan Garrett. THIS is the book that I wish I had read before we started agility class, not CU. I know lots of people swear by CU and I do think it offers a lot to many if not most dogs. But if you want to work on building impulse control in a dog that lacks impulse control AND fear, I think Shaping Success applies a bit better. The book documents Susan's journey with her slightly crazy BC, Buzz. Through most of the book, I felt like I was reading about my dog.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Following up on my earlier comment about Control Unleashed...
> 
> I found a book that I think applies much better for a happy, rambunctious, confident dog: Shaping Success by Susan Garrett. THIS is the book that I wish I had read before we started agility class, not CU. I know lots of people swear by CU and I do think it offers a lot to many if not most dogs. But if you want to work on building impulse control in a dog that lacks impulse control AND fear, I think Shaping Success applies a bit better. The book documents Susan's journey with her slightly crazy BC, Buzz. Through most of the book, I felt like I was reading about my dog.


Agreed!!! This is a great book and one of my fav's, a wonderful story, journal and training all in one book.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

Day 3:

Shiner started off as bad as she had ever been. Would not pay attention or stop pulling. It took her a good 5-10 minutes before she calmed down. Once she did she was better than ever as far as attention and being more relaxed in between activities.

We did a full tunnel, one mostly straight and one curved, and a full chute. She again did great, not as fast as she had been in the past, but I am hoping that comes with her being more comfortable. She was still very fast on the A-frame, and dog walk though.

It was also about 35 degrees outside last night(the class is out doors) so that was something. Still going well, and still enjoying it, still gotta work on concentration.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

dbulick said:


> Day 3:
> 
> Shiner started off as bad as she had ever been. Would not pay attention or stop pulling. It took her a good 5-10 minutes before she calmed down. Once she did she was better than ever as far as attention and being more relaxed in between activities.
> 
> ...


Are you considering competing with her?


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

I am, she is my first dog that I am trying agility with, but if I can get enough control with her to trust that she won't zoom around the ring and ignore me I would like to.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

dbulick said:


> I am, she is my first dog that I am trying agility with, but if I can get enough control with her to trust that she won't zoom around the ring and ignore me I would like to.


In many of your posts in this thread, I have had some red flags going off and I would like to point out some concerns based on years being a student (I take lessons from a world team member now), years of competing up to a national level and also as an instructor in agility.
Let me start with saying I think there are 4 types of agility instructors/schools. For fun only I am going to given them a classification.

A) Top Flight: School often is competitors and instructors that have been in the sport for years and with big success to an internatonal level. They know how important obedience and foundation skills are and often train them for many months before a dog ever does any equipment. They are often very $$$, and their students often are also very successful.

B)Business Class: This school has instructors that are successful in agility but typically don't make (or try out) for the world teams etc. They are always continuing with their education and their students do very well. They know you can't take newbie's and do months of foundation skills because the students want to be doing agility but would often also like to compete. So this school has a nice balance of obedience requirements and foundation skills but teaching their students how the play the game sooner than the A school ever would.

C) Economy: This school's instructors have either never competed or competed countless years ago when foundations skills were not used and have not kept up with much or any continued education. Most of the students don't compete and those that do may or may not have limited success (until they change schools) but typically when watching runs from those students at a trial the run is often messy and painful to watch. The goal of this school is to get dogs on the equipment quickly.

D) Cash Cow Schools: These places have very little or none, education about agility, have often never even had a lesson in it themselves and have never competed on any level. They have just purchased some equipment knowing that agility is popular and their students 'just want to have fun'. Agility is for them a money maker. They typically have people doing equipment on leash right from the first night and the problem with this is the dogs and students are rapidly building some very bad habits that are often deadly to fix later especially with a high drive and/or fast dog.

What classification your school has is up to you to determine but I can tell you that I started at the bottom with a D school for 1 six week course. Luckily for me, I had experience training/competing with horses and realized this wasn't a great place. I then moved a few months later to a C school. Now this school presented themselves as being successful and competing........not true which I found out quickly. 1 course with them and I quit. I finally got good instruction but the sad thing is with my dog the damage was already done. He was a very fast high drive dog that was without a doubt out of control and it took YEARS to retrain him. Now my friend, she went with me to those first two places, the effects of the poor training were little, her dog was a velcro dog and very biddable. Yes they had some bad habits but for them it was easy to fix. She also never did much competing so it didn't matter to her.

I would strongly suggest that you investigate your training school/instructors. I seriously question the wisdom of your dog being on equipment at this point regardless of whether it is an OB class with a focus on agility. Which by the way in my opinion is backwards when they are using such things as the contact equipment while the dog is on leash.
Your girl sounds wonderful, you and she deserve the best chance at being successful and not being frustrated. Not to mention the loss of money and time when the price is really much deeper than that.

Ask yourself this: Should I settle for poor or mediocre training, when I could get much better training/instruction that will result in success?

I am not trying to rain on your parade or shoot you down but trying to help because I have been there and it would have saved me and my dog a lot of grief if someone had pointed out some things to me. Please feel free to contact PM me or there are many of us here that would be able to point you in the direction of a good place to train in your area if you decide that you should see what your other options are.

Good luck.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

I tried to send you a PM, but your box is full!


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

dbulick said:


> I tried to send you a PM, but your box is full!


Sorry I'll fix that now.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

Day 4:

Shiner again started off out of her mind, but settled even faster and better as class got started. She is really starting to be able to ignore distractions and focus on me better as she gets more comfortable in this setting(I still would not trust her off leash at all). 

We continued to work on the dog walk, 2 on 2 off. Worked on a new type of jump, where it is a cascading 3 bar jump(I don't know it's real name, it is still "over" regardless for me). Worked on the A-Frame with it raised a bit more again, Shiner is FLYING over this thing at this point. It seems like she is getting halfway up and jumping over the rest(I know she really isn't but man is she moving fast).

Introduced the teeter today, with a 4 on contact. She did GREAT the first 2 times, stopped and didn't release till I gave her the command. The 3rd time she bailed early, backed her up and tried again, but she didn't stop on command. Came back and did it one more time to get a good one before we left it. Did it great again. Started the teeter with controlled drop, and then slowly let the dogs control it. Although they were only dropping like 2 or 3 inches

Trainers told me Yesterday that Shiner has a lot of potential. I want to continue because it has been fun, control continues to be the name of the game.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

LynnI said:


> In many of your posts in this thread, I have had some red flags going off and I would like to point out some concerns based on years being a student (I take lessons from a world team member now), years of competing up to a national level and also as an instructor in agility.
> Let me start with saying I think there are 4 types of agility instructors/schools. For fun only I am going to given them a classification.
> 
> A) Top Flight: School often is competitors and instructors that have been in the sport for years and with big success to an internatonal level. They know how important obedience and foundation skills are and often train them for many months before a dog ever does any equipment. They are often very $$$, and their students often are also very successful.
> ...


Lynn, thank you for posting this. People just getting into agility need to know what they're getting in an instructor. I'll be moving to who-knows-where in about 2 years and it's really good to know what I should watch out for. 

I would classify my current instructor as business class (goes to nationals every year, but never worlds to my knowledge), competes in multiple venues all the time, definitely keeps up on her education, and is more than willing to consider feedback from students. She is 100% invested in the success of her students. I would classify my old instructor as business class, as well, but with a cash-cow attitude (meaning doesn't care about the success of the student at all). 

We were with my old instructor for around a year. I know sticking with her for that long was a mistake and I know it cost me precious time and money. However, from what I can see, she didn't do a whole heck of a lot of damage to Kit (although my psyche is a different story)...
- Maybe it's because I had Kit for 10 months (months 7-17 of her life) before we enrolled in agility class (she was a mess behaviorally and I was too embarrassed to take her there), and we worked on all kinds of obedience stuff every day during that time. I went to watch multiple agility trials during that time, which made me realize how much control was really needed. I didn't enroll until I felt we were well on our way to having some of that.
-Maybe it's because Kit is so biddable - I feel like when some skill needs retraining, I just retrain it and that's that. Kit is an exceptionally forgiving dog who learns very quickly, which is great, since I don't really know what I'm doing, first dog and all. 
-Or it could be that because I'm a newbie, I just can't see the damage that my old instructor caused. I certainly hope that's not the case :-/

dbulick, I do agree with Lynn that leashes are a no-no in agility class, except between turns. If the dog can't be trusted off leash, then it's not time to introduce equipment. Off-leash control is definitely something that you can work on outside of class. Because I live in a not-so-populated area, I know that good instructors may not exist within a reasonable driving distance from you. And even if they do, their classes tend to fill very quickly. If you do want to stick with your current instructor, your work outside of class is going to make or break you. Taking the initiative to work on some of the easier issues yourself (by seeking advice on forums like DF, reading anything you can get your hands on, attending trials, etc.) can only help you. 

Lynn, I'm curious - what kind of instructor are you? I know you're not C or D, but are you A or B?


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

Oh I am definitely working with Shiner on a daily basis to work on having the best recall, focus, and attention I can get out of her. She is the kind of dog you look at and you can see the wheels constantly turning in her head. I have to work the entire class to keep her attention, or she will find something more interesting to look at. Her recall is good, it isn't 100%, but whenever we are doing something she is engaged with me on what is happening. She wouldn't have to be leashed during the practice, she isn't going to zoom off if we are doing something.

I agree though, foundation work is very important, and I am trying to get her as good as I can.


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