# HELP! Third Dog in My Life, I Can't Cope With Him (a Beagle)



## Nadege

I had a dog in my childhood, and then again in early 20s. The first one was a cocker spaniel. The second one was a 4-year-old rescue (lived to 14 years old). Both of these experiences were mostly amazing (especially with the rescue), and I couldn't wait to get another dog. Now I finally have a spacious apartment, good finances and I mostly work from home.

A few years ago, I saw Beagle Freedom Project videos and they left me heartbroken and in love with the beagles, so - even though we were waiting for our local shelter to get dogs (in our area, there is a waiting list at the shelter) - when my husband ran across people who had a litter of beagles that they were giving away (no pedigree, but I don't care about that), we took one. 

This time, I knew stuff that I didn't even bother to know with the first two dogs. I researched everything: training methods and approaches, ways to deal with the new dog; I bought a crate, chew toys, enzyme cleaners, EVERYTHING. We have been doing everything BY THE BOOK for two months now. And, please, don't stress how this is still a puppy etc. I understand that. But I had dogs; my friends had dogs, I know they're not all the same, I just don't know what to do anymore. We made NO PROGRESS. Nothing. Zero. Every day I hope something got better, but nope.

Our male beagle can sit, stay, lie down on command (he does it for treats). So he's not stupid or too small to understand. He has a crate, and we made it his happy place (fake mom with the clock and heating pads, toys, etc.). It has a divider that we enlarge so that it's big enough for him to lie down comfortably, but not bigger. I walk him every hour to 2 hours during the day, and we realized that he can go for 7 hours at night. 

So, let me describe this day and you tell me how not to get exasperated:
all day long: walks every 1-2 hours - upon taking him out of the crate, after playtime
he gets plenty of play time and exercise (my job is suffering so much that this might have a huge impact on my career if this continues, I'm devoting most of my time to this)
he sees other dogs (when not during the walks, he goes to the puppy day care to socialize)
he eats well, he's healthy (saw the vet and had a 2-hour 180 dollar check up)
my husband and I are consistent and very determined to make this work

Today, he was walked and he peed at 8 pm. We then played with him for 30 min, crated him. He peed in his crate 20 min later (this is a new thing, so I feel that we're regressing).

We caught him in the act, said no, replaced the blankets, washed everything with an enzyme cleaner, took him outside immediately, praised him for peeing there.

So, he was out at 9 pm, then 10 pm, and we also restricted the water intake (he drinks like a sponge) since it's late. We played with him gently (basically tried petting him while he's trying to bite us) and I was getting ready to walk him one last time before crating him for the night, when he crouched and started peeing on the floor. I screamed No! and he stopped peeing (he peed very little) and he ran away from me for a bit. Then I took him out, walked, and he peed very little again. What I'm trying to say is this wasn't an emergency peeing. He's perfectly healthy. He understands all kinds of commands. I am fairly convinced that he understands that he shouldn't pee at home. When he does, he pees and then runs away. When he does it outside, he always comes to me for praise. 

DON'T TELL ME TO WALK HIM MORE THAN EVERY HOUR. Just generally, anyone who pretends here that they're some kind of a superman who takes their dog out every 15 min (when do they play and eat?), or who thinks that everything is always the owner's fault, can restrain from answering. We are doing everything humanly possible according to all the knowledge that we could gain from videos, trainers, the vet, on what to do with our dog. And this potty-training thing is not budging an inch. I would say it's getting worse (since he's now willing to go in his crate too, before it was just the floors).

I'm not saying it's his fault. He is who he is. Friends who see how much my life is suffering (emotional, professional, marital - etc.; we are two exhausted people, trying to figure out how to raise this dog well) suggested rehoming him to someone with a house or whatnot. We love this dog, we don't want to rehome him. I just simply don't understand how this dog can't - or doesn't want to - get housebroken. I love the beagle in him for many of his traits, but I am losing my patience over this. I feel despair. I'm reading now how this breed is difficult to housebreak and I remember thinking how I can achieve it with consistency, I just didn't think that my life would become hell.

I'm not even mentioning here that he bites, even growls (if he wants something), and that it's impossible to walk him without dangling pieces of bacon near the pocket and enticing him (otherwise he just drags himself, stops walking etc.). I love him, but I have to say that on days like this where I find myself weeping at his stubbornness, I miss the dogs that I had before... Please, don't post stuff that I know (all the crucial housebreaking info, or how I should be patient and consistent). I don't know what I'm asking for even. I just need to feel less exasperated.


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## Canyx

How old is he and how long have you had him?

Also, interrupting is appropriate when he goes indoors. But sounds like your interruptions are more like corrections since you describe he starts running away from you indoors. You need to establish a very good record of reward for going outside first. Not knowing the above information, it's hard to say... But it sort of sounds like he's just a very young puppy who is still trying to figure out what you want. He gets rewarded for going outside, which is great. But that doesn't mean he automatically eliminates all other possibilities (living room corner, living room carpet, under the chair in the living room, living room corner when you're not looking, living room carpet when you are watching, etc..). The point is, it is clear to US that outside is the only right answer, but dogs generalize so poorly that there is a chance that he is simply confused and still trying all the options. I would suggest removing corrections (like shouting NO!) because you run the risk of him learning to sneak his potty breaks indoors.

I don't know what else to tell you except it's ok... I know how frustrating it may seem that you are doing everything you can and making no progress on a seemingly simple thing. But, if it is any help at all... This is only as big a deal as you make of it. See mistakes as simply, mistakes. Let them go. Also, you and others may disagree with me and it strongly depends on the two questions I first posted, but if you've been at it for a WHILE, and he is old enough, maybe try another method. Potty pad train him then gradually move the pads outside. Would that be the worst solution in the world? Though to be honest, there is a chance that he really is just young and new to your routine and will get it eventually as long as you stick to it. It'll be okay.


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## PatriciafromCO

gosh if it was me with such a smarty pants.. I would baby gate him off into an area of tile flooring where I would put loads of papers down and not let it worry me so much or be put in a position to give the pup rewarding attention.. some times negative attention is just as rewarding to a pup to keep doing it to get the attention. Begals are extremely smart they pick things up really quickly even if it's in the wrong direction.. The movie Regarding Henry lol .. How can you set your environment up to put you more at ease, more relaxed that you can handle where your at right now.. For a pup who pee's they not going to have full privilege of the house hold, you can't keep them in the crate all the time, but they don't have to have the entire house either. That is where I would start, is isolate the behavior in a way you can be more relaxed for it happening, and stick to your schedule your trying to teach... Hang in there ...


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## Nadege

Hi Canyx and Patricia! Thank you so much for answering, I already feel better just having people heard me and answered me. 

To answer questions, he's 5 and a half months old, we've had him for two and a half months. I know he's still a baby. BUT it's baffling to me that he can follow complex commands for 20 min that my spaniel wouldn't have ever picked up on, and be happy about it, because he's getting praise and treats. And that he would at the same time be so confused with the concept of where to potty? At the beginning I wasn't saying NO angrily when he peed at home, but I started doing it a month ago, because I start wondering whether the "just positive reinforcement" philosophy might be a fashion that can be proven wrong. (I don't mean that anyone should punish the dog, but I wonder if showing some form of discontent can help. I'm a researcher myself - though not in canine behavior - and I'm aware how much those things change all the time.) I certainly don't want him to be scared of me, or create a negative atmosphere. But I don't want him to think it's ok to bite humans, growl at us, because the vet says he'll be a big beagle (up to 50 pounds). I don't want to mess him up by being too tolerant and lenient. I don't want to mess him up by being too strict and punitive. (Do you think that the angry NO!! is damaging him, or our relationship? It's the last thing i want to do, but I just don't know how else to show him it's not ok to pee wherever, or bite or growl for that matter.)

This is how he seems to me: it seems to me that he knows what's right: he looks for his treat and praise after he pees outside. But then, why would he not go inside? He doesn't get a treat for not going inside (because it's impossible to treat that), so he goes inside when he feels like it, and he still gets to go outside and get a treat. He doesn't like me yelling no, but he doesn't seem too disturbed by it either. (He just runs away for a minute, and then can be easily taken out.)

Patricia, he does not have the full range of the house - I agree with you on that. He can only be in the spacious living room and kitchen areas (if he's not crated). I guess I'm not taking it too well that I went on around 500 walks (literally) with him and that nothing got better. I wonder: will it ever be? I also met a few beagle owners: one is housebroken, one is not (they never achieved it; I'm not saying it's not their fault, but they seemed to have tried.) 

I think that I'm discouraged, tired, my marriage is taking a toll, my career too, I'm neglecting myself because I'm putting so much work into this (how else would he go out every hour or two and get his playtime, food etc.)? I just thought that things would start getting easier. I started this so emotionally stable, and now I feel like a wreck(

Also, it didn't help that we used to live in an apartment that smelled like pee, and it was because the previous tenant had a yorkie who kept peeing on floors to the point that the building had to replace the floors, and then the smell still resurfaced because the pee seeped into the concrete below the flooring. (We didn't have a dog there.) But the fact that we lived with the smell of urine for a while probably doesn't help now, when our beagle seems to be so difficult to housebreak (because we were appalled that those people didn't train their yorkie; now I sometimes say, omg, maybe this was the life of those yorkie people and we judged them... )


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## Nadege

Also, I noticed that a lot of people say, just stick to it, be patient, it's gonna work out.

It's nice to hear. But, you know, we're all mammals. We're different than our doggies, of course, but I believe I also have the animal-bodily part of me: if I don't sleep, if I don't get rewarded by progress for my effort, if I'm exhausted - I start feeling really sad and angry and depressed. Sure, I have more control over it, but it's not boundless. And then it's just hard and I wonder when this is going to get better. 

I love this little guy for his intelligence and stubbornness, and I'm also driven crazy by it.

PS. I think I will do the baby crate and put the papers down, Patricia. After all the books and videos, we thought it would be counterproductive, but if it's the only way for me to keep some sanity, I'll do it. But I usually just have to supervise him all the time anyway, so thats why we didn't do it. If I turn my head for a second, he eats everything: the carpet, the table legs, the wires, the moldings, I saw him chewing on the drywall... So I'm scared to have him by himself for even a minute. Either he's in a crate, or I'm playing with him, walking him, watching him. That's why I feel so overwhelmed.


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## PatriciafromCO

if it helps you can tape trash bags down first under the paper, or you can go to home depot, they have rubber runners you can purchase by the roll ( I used that for my puppy room) the rubber runner was expensive.. there was a roll of vynle with a foam backing.. very flexibly. easy to cut to shape.. We went with the light wood pattern.. it was cheaper and we did the entire house with it.. no matter what it's dog proof 15 years later it's still here .. so even for a small area it may help you feel better to have it on the floor for extra protection. I like beagles, they are exceptionally smart and puzzle solvers, have to be to out fox the fox right... might help to get a food puzzle toy give him some time to entertain himself and free up some time for you... You might look into Nose work games that you can do inside the house... Nose work is satisfying and tires them out... guess thinking about doing less activity, but finding really satisfying activities.. Hang in there.. !!!


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## taquitos

Well... he's a puppy. He's going to pee everywhere. All you can do is just limit the amount of freedom he has around the house, and keep doing what you're doing. Some dogs just take longer to housetrain... It took my dog like, a full year with me to get housetrained :/

I would also suggest using something higher in reward than just praise for housetraining. Every Beagle I've met has been a huge gourmand so maybe give him a very yummy treat for going outside each time


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## Hiraeth

Unfortunately, this all sounds like regular puppy behavior. Difficult to deal with, yes, but also totally normal. The general rule with puppies is 4 steps forward and 3 steps back. Sometimes it's 4 steps back. Sometimes it's 5. 

I'm in the same boat as you. I have a 12.5 week old Great Dane puppy. My routine on a weekend, since I work full time, is as follows:

Wake up at 6:30 am - take puppy outside for pee
Breakfast at 6:35 am - puppy eats 
Back outside at 6:45 am - puppy poops
Play time from 6:50-7:20 am - play with puppy
Training time from 7:20-7:35 - work on down/stay
Back outside at 7:35 - another pee break

That's where the regimented routine sort of falls apart. But I am outside with my puppy (who is probably larger than your Beagle and therefore has a larger bladder) every 40 minutes or so. 30 minutes if he's being super active. An hour if he's asleep or laying quietly chewing on something. Sometimes I miss it by a few minutes and the puppy goes in the house. Sometimes he signals at the back door. He seems to KNOW he should go outside, but sometimes can't help going inside because he has very minimal bladder control.

*IF* your puppy has regressed to the point where he's peeing inside in small quantities over short periods of time, perhaps have a vet run some tests to see if he has a UTI or bladder infection? It's probably NOT the cause, but just something to look out for if his bathroom habits change significantly.

I can't offer you any advice, really, just camaraderie. Puppies kind of suck. I can't remember the last time I got 8 hours of sleep (probably the night of 9/17, since I got him on 9/18), I don't see my friends, I can't read books or be on the computer or watch tv without checking where he is and what he's doing approximately every minute and a half. I guess my advice would be "try to let the accidents go, and it's not a crime to crate/contain your puppy while you're at home working". Working in an office is a blessing, because it actually gives my brain puppy-free time to recharge and I don't have to be on guard every second. Give yourself that time - you're not being cruel if you crate the puppy even when you're home, as long as you provide him with some food puzzle toys or something safe to chew on. 

Good luck, and you're not alone


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## Kyllobernese

I probably housetrain a little differently than most people. I just recently got an 8 week old puppy. I have a pen set up with newspaper down and she goes into it at night or during the day if I cannot watch her. She will be 10 weeks old this coming Monday and last night was the first night she has neither peed or pooped overnight. In another week, I will start to crate train her. During the day when she is sleeping or playing, as soon as she stops or wakes up, she goes outside. I sometimes get busy and she pees on the floor but I just clean it up and do not say anything to the puppy as it is my fault. I have not had a single poop in the house in the last week. I have housebroken all my pups this way and they are all reliably housebroken. I have never had a Beagle and I know some breeds are harder than others but I have housebroken them this way either using newspaper or a pellet box and had good luck with my small dogs. I did not get Kris, my Dobe, till she was 11 weeks old so she was crate trained right from the start.


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## Canyx

Honestly, it could be the smell of urine that's already in the house, but who knows...

I think it is typical for a 5.5 month old puppy to start holding it longer than an hour during the day and differentiating after over 2 months of work. But like others have said, every dog is different and some are just slow to housetrain. If I were in your shoes, I would put down potty pads in a tiled area and not be so hard on myself about letting him out every hour. I dislike potty pads but I would dislike being hypervigilant every waking hour, losing sleep, and setting my pup up to fail even more. I think dogs can develop a habit of where to go through repetition, and if it is indoors I would want to break the habit immediately. And if traditional housetraining methods (being vigilant, letting out every hour) wasn't working, I would set up a different scenario in which the dog would succeed. 

Separate note, but you should never punish growling. Growling is simply how dogs communicate discomfort (or arousal, during play) and in itself is not aggressive. It's like if you were to tell someone, "Please back off." If you punish growling, you may stop the act but your dog might still harbor negative emotions. 
Imagine someone you trusted and respected was for some reason trying to take your french fries while you were eating them and you say, "Hey, please stop that" (ie, growling). Well, that is as unacceptable so this person yells "NO!" suddenly at you, or maybe even slaps you across the head. Being the smart person that you are, you won't talk back anymore. But would that make you feel better about that situation? Your fries being taken? This person who you respected and trusted?
Basically, that's what's going on. And if you cut off a means of communication in your dog, you run the risk of 'forcing' your dog into true aggression instead, ie 'growling doesn't work so the dog immediately bites'. 
Depending on why your dog is growling, there are positive ways of changing that. If it's resource guarding, there are plenty of resources out there but the gist of it is to offer something even better and teach the dog that your presence means awesome things, which would make your dog less wary of you and reduce growling. 

Regarding your dog chewing up everything in sight, it may be worth setting up an ex-pen or a puppy area. I know it is exhausting to be watching the puppy and redirecting every second he is there, even when you're not interacting with him. So the compromise between hypervigilance and crate-only, is setting up an enclosure where he can still be near you but only has access to appropriate toys and chew items inside his pen. 

All in all, yeah puppies suck  Know that you are not alone and, for better or worse, what you are dealing with is absolutely normal. Sometimes, you need to get away from the 'by the books' thinking and just take a break. Think, "How can I make this easier for ME?" and often times there are solutions that are equally as good for the puppy. You can't train every waking second. Management is your friend. Set up situations in which you can take a mental break AND your pup can still succeed. It may mean more crate time some days, it may mean setting up an expen, it may mean tiling the floor with potty pads for a while... Whatever you choose, I hope it will give you peace of mind. You deserve it!


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## Amaryllis

This is why I don't do puppies.

Stop yelling at him for going inside. All that does is convince him not to pee in front you, which is going to make getting him to go outside in front of you all the harder. You may not think he cares about yelling, but I've yet to meet a truly hard tempered beagle. They're usually very sensitive dogs, just quiet about it. So ignore the mistakes and praise the successes.

Seconding Canyx about growling. If you punish growling, you can end up with a dog who bites "out of nowhere". You really don't want that.


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## Jen2010

I agree with everything Hiraeth said. He sounds like a normal puppy. Frustrating, but normal.

I've gone through it twice in the past 3 years with my two dogs. Pepper wasn't fully house trained until about 10 months old. Kane took a bit longer even. His last accident was about a month ago and he's just over 1 year old. For both of them things did get significantly better around 6 months old, but they still had accidents if we weren't diligent about watching them.

Keep up what you're doing and he will catch on eventually.


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## Nadege

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate every word. Especially from those who have been through it or are going through it. 

Today was the hardest day so far. After our walk and play at noon, I crated him and went to my home-office to work for an hour. He wasn't crying or anything, he likes the crate most of the time. After 10 min, I heard the most horrendous loudest horrible sounds - I would say imaginable, but I couldn't imagine anything so horrendous - coming from the living room. They were screams, but the pitch and the sound were otherworldly. It sounded as if 50 small very loud animals were being ripped apart alive. I don't even know how to describe this. I now tried to google howling, baying, but haven't found anything like this. I assume because the sound is so distressing that no one who's not a psychopath would be able to film it. Everyone who was in my building heard it.

I ran from the office, almost fell over the chair, thinking I'd find my puppy in a pool of blood or something. He had stuck his snout between the bars of the crate and screamed these hellish screams that curdled my blood. I managed to get his head out of there easily and quickly, but then i just tumbled to the floor and kept lying there, because I felt like I had no blood in my head nor body. The puppy was next to me, still in panic from being stuck for the first 5 min, then he just went around the apartment to sniff around. Then I started crying, my chest was in pain, I thought that I'd need the ER. I called my husband and he came from work, I kept crying uncontrollably for an hour. From the moment when he started screaming and the moment when I freed him from the crate (he could have pulled his head out, he just panicked and didn't know how) I'm sure that very little time passed, but it seemed to have slowed down in my head while I was running to the living room. 

My husband said that he had once stepped on our dog's leash and the puppy was stopped while running, and he screamed for a while that time as well. Even the neighbors who have dogs all gathered to see why he's screaming so much because nothing really happened. (He entangled the leash a bit, and was pulled back by it.) So my husband was trying to tell me that I just have to accept that if the doggie is scared, he'll just emit these horrendous screams, and that I can't get a heart attack over it.

Today is the first day in 2 and a half months that I don't know if I can do this. Those screams curdled my blood. I don't think I can ever hear them without going into severe stress. I don't understand how this is happening to me: I was proud of keeping my pets until they died, and I am apparently incapable of dealing with this doggie. I repeat: I had two dogs, one lived to 12, one to 14 (and he was a large mixed rescue, which I rescued while he was in treatment for heart worms). I've never experienced anything like this. Barking: yes. But these screams... Maybe I'm too sensitive? I knew beagles were loud, and that he might howl and bark or bay, but... no one ever told me about these piercing screams. I cannot describe them. It doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard.

Today was the first day that my husband and I started reconsidering this situation, both for me and for the doggie. If I had been at work, I'm sure he would have gotten his head out of the crate, where he got stuck, and I wouldn't even know about this. (He wasn't hurt, and he wasn't so stuck, he just panicked.) Except that the neighbors would tell me (those that aren't at work). My husband's colleague wants to take him. She has a house and a yard and two other hounds, she lost a beagle from cancer. I don't know whether I can cope with this, and I don't know what would be better for my doggie. I can't imagine giving him to someone, but - am I in over my head?? 

I also realize from these posts that I probably put too much care and effort into doing everything right, and I think it's just adding stress. On the other hand, he really does get into trouble all the time everywhere: my husband had to save him from choking on the carpet threads that he managed to pull out and swallow in 10 seconds (since then we removed the carpet), we both had to get pebbles, wood, mulch out of his mouth. He even found two pieces of plastic at the Veterinarian Clinic (the best around), and the vet was apologizing, no one ever saw these pieces (he pulled them out of somewhere). (BTW, to reiterate for those who commented on the potty-training: he got a two hour check-up and he's perfectly fine. No UTIs nor anything.) He got a chew hound toy stuck on his head and I had to pull it off. I had to return a doggie bed because he was eating it. Now today, his head got stuck between the crate bars. I'm a nervous wreck. I thought of having a baby soon, and now I'm so emotionally distraught that I gave up on it for the moment. I don't know anything anymore.


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## Nadege

This is my little rascal when he was a bit smaller. Don't let the cuteness fool you


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## sassafras

When he had his vet visit, did they run a urinalysis? 5-6 months old is a very common time for puppies to have a regression in house training, so you're certainly not alone. Many of us have been there. But a couple of times you specifically said that he peed very small amounts and that could be caused by an infection. If your vet ran a sample at the visit, then obviously ignore this.

My dog Squash was a real nightmare to house train. He could sleep overnight, but he is SO nosy and busy that he would get wrapped up in what he was doing and just not realize he had to pee until the very last second. He'd be playing or something and start to make a run for the back door, tinkling all the way. Or be walking across the room and just pause and pee with no signals whatsoever. I actually did have to resort to setting a kitchen timer for 10 minutes until I got a solid 1-2 days with no accidents under our belts and could gradually increase the time - at an age where he really "should" have been old enough to hold it for much longer than that. I could definitely see a nosy little beagle being the same way. 

It was physically and emotionally exhausting but the good news is they grow up so it doesn't last forever. Even if you do everything right, some puppies are just real turds to house train.


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## jade5280

Everything you've described sounds normal for a puppy. If you feel that it's giving you a lot of anxiety and you aren't happy then you might want to rehome him. You said you can't cope with him, so maybe a puppy isn't the best thing for you right now. If you stick it out then it will get better, but that's up to you.


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## Susanlovesdogs

Nadege, I feel for you, and have no great insight, just the wish to empathize/sympathize with you. I love dogs, and always will need one, but never thought i would have a 6month labradoodle puppy right now. You see i already put sll this hard work, into a head strong, but adorable labradoodle almost 9 years ago, when i got a puppy to help with my 7 year old going blind labradoodle. I had all the typical puppy traumas issues, and had to put the older one down at almost 14 2 years ago..all expected..and still had Chloe the cute labradoodle at age 7. Then close to 9th birthday the perfect dog..my love Chloe, dropped dead on aneurysm. So sad..lost my mind and my heart, so 5 days later, I got Bella a 6 month labradoodle. So calm, and sweet AT FIRST. But now I am on here scouring the forum for what to do with a 6 month old that once a day GETS WILD and JUMPY and BITES me...Argh..I am sure its 'normal'. Chloe didn't do it at this age as she had Bridget. Bridget didn't do it 14 years ago at this age. But Bella does...I love her, waiting for the moment when I fall in love with her...I miss Chloe...who was at that point of the nirvana dog. Now I am back on that track of working with a puppy. I keep thinking she is housetrained..but..every once in a while she reverts..on purpose. As she has a dog door. Just once in a while, she just chooses to pee...inside. So..they do that..I guess. I have started to take her to a dog park..i have to drive far, to go to a good one..as one close to me, isn't totally fenced in..BUT to get them exhausted is the key. Walks wont do it. I think walks just are good for training..to set rules. But to have a good tired puppy they need to RUN..and play..with other dogs. Oh, and as for the terrible wail of your dog..all i can say is he is a beagle and little beagles can make the most ungodly howl,bark, bray..whatever. Thatis just what they do. Keep us posted...I am not looking for the directions of how to keep sweet Bella from turning into the once a day Demon, where she bites and jumps on me. I put her in time out in the kitchen..and it works..but it is just unbelievable..how she wants to bite me..around 5pm... OK...keep posting and good luck! I think it does get better.


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## Nadege

Thank you, everyone. Susan, thank you for posting this. I sometimes feel so alone in this hell of puppydom. I'm sorry to hear about Chloe. I was doing fairly ok with saying goodbye to my first two doggies. This is what helped me: knowing that, all in all, I gave them so much love and the best life that I could give them. They were happy dogs and I felt horribly sad for losing them when the time came, but I took solace in knowing that they had happy lives.

I empathize and sympathize as well. So much. Today has been a good day (so far) for us. He hasn't had any accidents, nor did he go into a fit of rage or craziness of any kind. Now I think there is no way I'd give him to someone. Yesterday I wondered (and I'm not saying I won't have days full of doubts again) because I am in an apartment, and I wonder sometimes whether I can fulfill my doggie's needs... You are so right about them playing with other dogs. Unfortunately, I don't have a dog park anywhere near, and my husband has the car pretty much all day, but that's why he took him to doggie daycare twice. First day we thought it was a solution to many problems: I got to rest and the puppy came back tired and calm. The second day he went, he came back with a horrible bite on his face. I cried the entire evening. They didn't have puppies, they took 35 bucks from us, and they put him to play with big dogs: a 45-pound dog bit him. He came back frightened and not tired at all, as this happened in the morning and then they secluded him with humans or not, instead of just calling us. We even have a package with them, but I can't send him there again. And they have the best reviews in the city.

My beagle also gets into fits of craziness, they are just not predictable at all. He runs around as if he had been hooked into an electric outlet and bites both of us. If we're walking, he's attacking pants, socks... he'll bite our faces or hands if he can reach them. I've been saying NO adamantly to that (I don't care that people say only positive reinforcement works), I just can't let him get used to biting people, and then give him time-outs (if I manage to, sometimes when he has these fits, I can't even get a hold of him, he's so wiggly and nuts). I have started seeing the signs of him actually reacting to my firm NO. Yesterday evening, he wanted to go chew the cable wires, and I said NO, and he actually looked at me and stopped. I felt like we were getting somewhere...

Keep posting here on your progress or share any insights. I'm at my wits end some days. Today has been better and I already feel like my former self. I dread the moment he goes into the crazy mode again...


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## Susanlovesdogs

I am sorry the doggy daycare didn't work out..That reminded me of how it was my sanity saver back in the days of Bridget and Chloe's puppiness, and my full time job, away from home. I loved to take them (there was a 7 year difference, so when Bridget was a puppy, there was no Chloe, and when Chloe a puppy, Bridget was a 7 year old 'lady'..she and I both loved the days Chloe went to DoggyDaycare). They would segregate the puppies, so that puppies were only with puppies. I was lucky, as it worked out nicely...3 times a week! Right now, Bella can't go until she is spayed, and she will be spayed this coming week. Yay...looking forward to that. Only a dog can tire out a puppy.. Maybe there is another one in your area that is safer? I know how your emotions fluctuate from one moment to the next. At 5pm today, whenshe was DEVIL DOG, I didn't like her much. But the rest of the day, she was sweet calm Bella. (who had a friggin accident, which was more of an 'on purpose..). And now, asleep on her back, on the sofa..she is sweet girl again. I think it is odd of all of us humans, that we expect a puppy (or dog) to understand our words and commands...and do good things...whereas what would we expect of a 1 year old child? So...I KNOW each week will get better...maybe not each day, and definitely not each moment. But all of a sudden you'll realize, Hey, my dog is my GOOD companion and I love him!!


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## FaithFurMom09

We have a beagle and I will NEVER get another one. OMG i wish someone had warned me. I love him but NEVER again!!!! So i feel you! They are very stubborn!


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## Nadege

I thought we had an accident free day. But no. 

I bought a real grass patch, because going down and up with stairs or elevators 30 times day and night is turning me into a wreck. We even moved apartments in the building, everything is in chaos, so that we can get a unit with a terrace - because of the grass patch and because I'm in Wisconsin and the winter will apparently be bad. (We moved here from nyc this summer.)

Today, we received the grass patch, took him to the balcony and he peed on it right after sniffing. We were so happy, we treated him, celebrated, he wagged his tail, we talked about how this will be a game-changer etc. I walked him outside at 11 pm, and thought I'd just get up once again at 1 am, but this time, just to make him pee on the grass patch. (I know he won't last until 6 am without that last peeing.) I took him out of the crate, put him on the grass patch, nothing. We were there every 10 min. Then I'd play with him a bit, then grass patch again etc. We were doing this for 40 min, back and forth. I concluded that he strangely doesn't need or want to pee and that I'll just get up again at 3 am. But now, at 3 am, on my way to his crate, I managed to see a part of the floor where there was a puddle, and little steps going from there. I was watching him like a hawk, I really don't know how he peed, maybe because it was semi-lit in the room since it's late. But it is the pee, I checked. I cleaned it with the enzyme cleaner, for the 200th time over the 2 months, and felt again a bit more defeated.

FaithFurMom, I also now wish someone had told me. I care about him, now he's here, and I researched the beagles. I might have seen somewhere that they "can be a bit more difficult to housebreak," but that didn't raise red flags, since my first dog spaniel wasn't a rocket scientist, to put it very generously but he figured out where to pee in about a week. (He was only two months old, and we lived in an apartment.) Susan, I completely agree that we would never expect a one or 2 year old to be so bright. This is also a doggie, not a baby, I don't even know much about babies. But I admit I feel anger when I find a puddle like this. It's so irrational, and I realize how much this is testing my limits as a human. However, I do know a woman who is now potty-training her kid and she's pretty exasperated too. I think the confusion arrises because we believe that they know better. And I do believe my doggie does know better. He knows so many complex commands, it's impressive what he's willing to learn for treats. He's the smartest dog I've had, but so selectively. He's also very eager to please only when there is food involved. The praise means less to him. (I try to do commands for praise only, so that I don't turn into a treat-dispenser for him, and he does his little "sit, down" etc., but he gets bored if he realizes that the treats wouldn't be there.) I feel like he's more like a cat, in his "what's in it for me" attitude.

Is this a beagle trait? Aren't they supposed to be affectionate? I'd like to have a bond with him that's stronger than a bond that I could have with a cat. (With my second dog, I also had a cat. The cat lived a happy life, but without ever caring too much about anyone. He'd come to cuddle when he wanted to, and as soon as he felt he had had enough, he'd scratch us - sometimes drawing blood - and leave.) So I'm trying to figure out with my dog what's just puppy behavior and what's different about HIM specifically. If this is how it's going to be, or just a bit better - but if we just stay food-dispensing devices - I'll accept it, but it saddens me.

NOTE: Over the last two months, we made a million attempts to just be affectionate with him. I have this cute puppy that I love and teach stuff and try to make happy. I want to have moments where I'm not thinking about house training or any training, and I just want to enjoy stroking his little furry self. But neither my husband nor I have ever managed to experience this. He nibbles and bites because, I guess, he's still teething. So we sometimes manage to pet him only if we put a chew toy in his mouth, but that lasts briefly, because he lets it go, wiggles out, and starts biting, pulling on our clothes, hair, whatever is close... Do other people get a moment of just cuddling with their pups? Do your pups seem like they need that? He really doesn't. He doesn't even really like it. He likes interaction, but not of that kind. More just tasks, jumping around, anything treat-related... I think I'm a little irrationally angry because he doesn't seem to have a bond with us, so that makes the cleaning and all the other work harder.


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## Hiraeth

Nadege said:


> I thought we had an accident free day. But no.
> 
> I bought a real grass patch, because going down and up with stairs or elevators 30 times day and night is turning me into a wreck. We even moved apartments in the building, everything is in chaos, so that we can get a unit with a terrace - because of the grass patch and because I'm in Wisconsin and the winter will apparently be bad. (We moved here from nyc this summer.)
> 
> Today, we received the grass patch, took him to the balcony and he peed on it right after sniffing. We were so happy, we treated him, celebrated, he wagged his tail, we talked about how this will be a game-changer etc. I walked him outside at 11 pm, and thought I'd just get up once again at 1 am, but this time, just to make him pee on the grass patch. (I know he won't last until 6 am without that last peeing.) I took him out of the crate, put him on the grass patch, nothing. We were there every 10 min. Then I'd play with him a bit, then grass patch again etc. We were doing this for 40 min, back and forth. I concluded that he strangely doesn't need or want to pee and that I'll just get up again at 3 am. But now, at 3 am, on my way to his crate, I managed to see a part of the floor where there was a puddle, and little steps going from there. I was watching him like a hawk, I really don't know how he peed, maybe because it was semi-lit in the room since it's late. But it is the pee, I checked. I cleaned it with the enzyme cleaner, for the 200th time over the 2 months, and felt again a bit more defeated.
> 
> FaithFurMom, I also now wish someone had told me. I care about him, now he's here, and I researched the beagles. I might have seen somewhere that they "can be a bit more difficult to housebreak," but that didn't raise red flags, since my first dog spaniel wasn't a rocket scientist, to put it very generously but he figured out where to pee in about a week. (He was only two months old, and we lived in an apartment.) Susan, I completely agree that we would never expect a one or 2 year old to be so bright. This is also a doggie, not a baby, I don't even know much about babies. But I admit I feel anger when I find a puddle like this. It's so irrational, and I realize how much this is testing my limits as a human. However, I do know a woman who is now potty-training her kid and she's pretty exasperated too. *I think the confusion arrises because we believe that they know better. And I do believe my doggie does know better. He knows so many complex commands, it's impressive what he's willing to learn for treats.* He's the smartest dog I've had, but so selectively. He's also very eager to please only when there is food involved. The praise means less to him. (I try to do commands for praise only, so that I don't turn into a treat-dispenser for him, and he does his little "sit, down" etc., but he gets bored if he realizes that the treats wouldn't be there.) I feel like he's more like a cat, in his "what's in it for me" attitude.
> 
> Is this a beagle trait? Aren't they supposed to be affectionate? I'd like to have a bond with him that's stronger than a bond that I could have with a cat. (With my second dog, I also had a cat. The cat lived a happy life, but without ever caring too much about anyone. He'd come to cuddle when he wanted to, and as soon as he felt he had had enough, he'd scratch us - sometimes drawing blood - and leave.) So I'm trying to figure out with my dog what's just puppy behavior and what's different about HIM specifically. If this is how it's going to be, or just a bit better - but if we just stay food-dispensing devices - I'll accept it, but it saddens me.
> 
> NOTE: *Over the last two months, we made a million attempts to just be affectionate with him. I have this cute puppy that I love and teach stuff and try to make happy. I want to have moments where I'm not thinking about house training or any training, and I just want to enjoy stroking his little furry self. But neither my husband nor I have ever managed to experience this. He nibbles and bites because, I guess, he's still teething. So we sometimes manage to pet him only if we put a chew toy in his mouth, but that lasts briefly, because he lets it go, wiggles out, and starts biting, pulling on our clothes, hair, whatever is close... Do other people get a moment of just cuddling with their pups? Do your pups seem like they need that? He really doesn't. He doesn't even really like it. He likes interaction, but not of that kind. More just tasks, jumping around, anything treat-related... I think I'm a little irrationally angry because he doesn't seem to have a bond with us, so that makes the cleaning and all the other work harder.*


First bolded line - there's a difference between "knowing better" and having bladder control. Since he is so young, sometimes he probably doesn't even know that he needs to go. He'll just be walking along and all of a sudden, he *really* needs to pee. It's great that he's smart and treat-motivated, but that has almost no bearing on potty training. My 13 week old Dane knows about ten commands and performs them for treats with gusto, but still has accidents in the house. He knows outside is the "good" place to go, but sometimes he just can't make it. 

Second bolded lines - I very rarely have moments I can pet Titan when he is fully awake. They're becoming more frequent, but for the most part, he just tries to chew on my hands. I can get my affection time in when he's sleeping (he does like to sleep in my lap). 

I've said this in a few other threads, but I'll say it here, too - there's this whole puppy myth that a lot of people buy into because hardly no one works to contradict it. The myth is that puppies are awesome, you'll get one and bond with it and it will bond with you. As long as you do all of the right things, training-wise, the puppy will learn quickly. While it's a bit of work, it's really rewarding and you'll see the progress as you work towards raising your puppy correctly. 

That's simply not the case. Puppies are hard, mostly non-rewarding work in which you take 4 steps forward to take 3 steps back. And sometimes you take 4 steps back. And sometimes you take 5. Despite all of the great training regimens you have in place regarding potty training, sometimes it just takes some puppies longer than others to learn, and this is not a deficiency in the owner, or the puppy. It's just a learning curve and biology. I *personally* don't think most people bond with their puppies. I think the bonding comes much later in life. I don't "love" Titan. I will, in the future. But right now, all he is to me is a puppy who pees in my house, throws a temper tantrum when he can't see me, bites my hands and eats lots of really expensive food. I am deeply obligated to turning him into a dog I can love. But that love is probably half a year or more down the road. I think people do equate puppies to babies, and you hear about how mothers give birth, look into their child's eyes and fall in love instantly. I just don't think that happens with dogs - that "spark" has to be patiently awaited, but it's hardly ever an immediate thing.


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## jade5280

We couldn't touch my coonhound when he was a puppy for the first 8 months without him biting us so there wasn't much cuddling going on. Now that he's older he loves to cuddle.


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## BostonBullMama

The only time I could sit down and cuddle with my puppy, was when he was sleeping. Other than that, if his eyes were open - he was running around like a little wild thing, nipping and chewing everything... I actually don't remember much of the potty training phase... but I've had Toby since he was 11 weeks old and I do know that he had accidents in the house more frequently in the first year than in the following years. He's 3 now and I can't remember the last time he pee'd in the house... though he did pee in a PetSmart when we were in Ottawa over the summer. However so many dogs mark in PetSmarts that it's difficult to ensure even the most well-behaved dogs won't have an accident. I simply cleaned it up and then dropped my items on a shelf, took him outside to see if he still needed to go, and then came back inside to collect my items and pay. 

Some dogs are really sensitive and when they hear "no" after an action, they don't connect the dots - in other words, you see pup pee in the house and say "No!", Pup hears 'No' and thinks "human doesn't like when I do xyz, I shouldn't do it in their presence" and will then do things in a more sneaky way... running away from you isn't showing that he knows what he did is wrong, he just hasn't connected the dots that inside = bad, outside = good, and now he's made nervous by your reaction. 

If it were me, I'd probably try to stop myself from saying "no" to pee's in the house and just clean them up and make the reward for peeing outside more valuable.


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## sassafras

Yea puppies can be awful. Toast was always very affectionate and person-oriented, but Squash cared about everything in the environment other than people for a long time (and honestly it's something we still struggle with). And generally speaking most hounds are going to be environment-oriented. But the good news is that usually if you just stick with it and stick with it eventually you can end up with a great dog. Just like if you stick through the toddler 2s and the teenage years someday your kids can end up to be great adults.

I'm sorry you're so stressed. I know puppies are exhausting and all encompassing. I think part of your stress, though, is coming from a disconnect between your expectations/preconceptions for A puppy and the reality of THIS puppy. If you can let some of those go, I think things will get easier for you.


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## PatriciafromCO

"" sassafras "" ""*I think part of your stress, though, is coming from a disconnect between your expectations/preconceptions for A puppy and the reality of THIS puppy. If you can let some of those go, I think things will get easier for you.'*'

This ^^^^^^ 

This is why I am so against the whole Disney movie ideals of dog ownership... they are animals, and animals are dirty , stinky, messy, destructive creatures, they act and respond like animals... When they don't your grateful and appreciative ,,, but when they do it's not a surprise and you don't think anything is wrong with you or them... Animal ownership is about management skills.. you either have the best environment for them to live in, or you set up an environment that keeps them safe from making mistakes.

So very heart breaking to see how this affect owners, but I do believe it's so harsh because of how sassafras said it... 

every time I spend time , hold, hug, kiss one of my barn chickens... I hear my Dad in the back of my head .. about how dirty nasty chickens are, birds are in general.. That when they would go and cage up a barn of chickens at 3 am in the morning they would have to burn their clothes after wards for how nasty the birds were and everything that was crawling all over them and in their clothes... I believe my Dads experience...... But hey am ok with it... to have chickens and enjoy hugging them and kissing them, carry the ones around with me that enjoy that stuff... 

bonding is about getting through the tough times with trust and acceptance.. It;s ok to be a hot mess, we will just keep working at it..... but until then I'll keep you safe.....


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## Nadege

If you had asked me three months ago (and even now when I'm not at my wits end), I completely agree with you. Hiraeth, it's actually impressive that you can say the same things about the puppies even while you're in the midst of raising one. And you're all right about the expectations. There are certain things that aren't helping my situation, I'm aware of it:
1) I just moved from Manhattan to Wisconsin, and my job is to sit at home and write a book. I have no friends around, I don't go to work, my work depends on my own discipline. My husband is the only person I know well here, and he's at work 50 hours a week. I did get attached to the doggie the first day (as it was a baby), because I craved having a dog again for a long time. We just couldn't afford it in Manhattan, and our apartment was ridiculously small. So, I was waiting for a few years to have a dog again. So, I'm almost too invested in the puppy. I also don't have the distraction that I think Susan mentioned earlier of going to some office somewhere. When puppy is wailing, I hear him. I'm constantly here. Also, I'm putting so much time and energy into raising him that even when my husband is home, I keep talking about the doggie. He's this huge joy that's finally back in my life, and I'm wrapped up in it even when I don't have to be... (However, I did not lose myself so much that I wouldn't enjoy him going to daycare: when he went to daycare, I was in heaven. I wish they hadn't let another dog bite him, pretty badly, what's more...

2) I didn't have a beagle before, and as much as I never really believed in breeds, and considered every dog as having their own personality (which they do), this little beagle is being a beagle from the textbook. He is into sniffing, he's definitely less cuddly, harder to housebreak, and more stubborn and independent than the dogs I had before. And I waited for him the longest, so I guess I had a lot of pent-up love for a doggie in me that can now sometimes make me more frustrated. 

I don't need much to feel better. Today, I didn't have to take care of him until an hour ago. I played with him etc., but I didn't HAVE to go out 20 times etc. I already feel saner and more accepting of everything. I think I'm exhausted, too invested, scared that I won't write my book because this is taking too much energy. Also, as much as I wanted a dog, I wanted to wait for a few months to settle in in a completely new area before actually getting a dog. But my husband had cats only, and he did pressure me into getting a dog sooner than later, and then immediately started working pretty much all the time on a new job, so I felt and still feel a bit overwhelmed. Basically, the changes in my life plus the reality of THIS particular puppy can sometimes make me feel very alone and stressed. (Like, those screams that he emitted when he got stuck between the bars in his crate, pushing his snout out: MAYBE someone can hear those screams and stay sane, but I thought that he had slit his neck or cut off his paw somehow in the crate, because I've never heard anything so horrendous in my life. I wondered that day if I'm too sensitive - in a bad way - to have a dog because I worry too much, and his painful shrieks made me feel unhinged for the rest of the day.)

It's easier with this forum. I feel like there is at least a community of dog-owners/lovers that I can share these experiences with.

PS After I took a 4-year-old sick dog from the shelter many years ago, I thought I probably wouldn't have a puppy anymore, not because I thought they were this hard, but because I know most people want to have a puppy and then some wonderful older dogs can't find homes. Now I wonder why everyone wants a puppy


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## Susanlovesdogs

Nadege, how's it going today?


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## Nadege

They aren't publishing my answers to this thread anymore. I don't understand why? This is ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh, so this does appear. Yesterday, I wrote another post in this thread, and it never appeared. Nothing was breaching any kind of rules of normal forum behavior.


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## Nadege

Susan, so nice of you to ask!

We're doing fine, he had some accidents, but I didn't let myself get upset. However, I do need to find a doggie daycare, because I feel bad for him not really seeing other dogs much (except briefly during the walk).

How are you? I wrote a post yesterday and it never got published


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## Susanlovesdogs

Bella and I are fine. I brought her to the beach..where my parents live, and I let her be offleash there this morning. I was scared to do it at first..but she stuck by me, and also played with a golden retriever, but, when they left, she happily came to my call, and we walked on. She really obeys...Too bad she snuck in her 'grandparent's' bedroom this morning, upstairs, to pee and poop. I am keeping a better eye on her now. She tends to not 'attack me' here, like she does at our home, where I live alone. I guess she doesn't want an audience to see how 'devilish' she can be..for a few minutes...She is acting only sweet and good here.


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## Nadege

Hehe, that's good. I'm sure she'll then stop altogether at some point.

We had Bobo go to a new (further out, but whatever) daycare for assessment. They have webcams and they assured us that they would never let bigger or more aggressive dogs spend time with smaller gentle dogs. They assessed him as "a bit too submissive." I did notice that he lies down on his back and exposes his belly easily when he meets other dogs; also, he came back without his chew toys both times when he went to the first daycare because he gives up his toys if another dog wants them.

I find it endearing... He really is gentle and friendly with everyone - except with us) He has no problem biting me, but I guess it's because he feels safe at home to go into these crazy fits. I wonder now if I need to do anything about his submissiveness with other dogs, or whether he's going to be fine. (What am i supposed to do, anyway?) He's going to go to this daycare now twice a week, so I hope things will get better. I just can't wear him out by myself, and it is practically only the two of us almost all the time.


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## Nadege

Oh, and the grass patch is a life saver! I see now why people say that it's harder to have a dog in the apartment. I had all my dogs in apartments, but when house training is more difficult and if you're not doing pads (which I didn't want to do), then at least a terrace with a grass patch is almost necessary. I was going nuts going up and down 20 times a day. Now I walk him three times a day outside, the rest he goes to the terrace and we have fewer accidents since!


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