# Help... Or my dog has to go!!! So frustrated!!!



## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

Hi guys I am in need of help with my Mini Schnauzer...
I have a mini schnauzer that I purchased about 5 months ago. I feel like giving up on him.... But I want to try one more time. 

Before purchasing a dog, I did my research on what type of dog would fit into my family of 4 (husband, wife, 2 kids). The miniature schnauzer fit perfectly (or what I read about him). So I found Lex Luthor on the internet. When I purchased him, I went to pick him up but the place I picked him up from turned out to be a puppy mill. ( I am thinking that this has something to do with the way he is). I felt like I rescued him from his terrible living conditions in a dark, smelly, yucky trailer with several other dogs.

Since we have gotten him He has been in a shell and is still scared to come out. He is a very scared non confident dog. The vet tells me that we need to work on buiding his confidence. He shakes and pees when strangers or men approach him every time. He is even terrified of cars. He even broke his leg trying to run when a car was passing because he was pooping and got scared. That cost me $400 to fix  I don't understand how It broke but he jumped and landed funny. And it seems impossible to potty train him. I was extremely consistent with taking him outside and crate training ( was completely crate trained). When ever I would take him out of his crate, I would take him outside and let him poop and handle his buisiness. Then we would go inside and I would let him play with my two year old. He would always go in my daughters room and go to the bathroom ( pee and poop) again. It seems as though he would intentionally hold some in and go when he got in the house almost immediatley after coming inside everytime ( we would stay outside between 15-30 minutes). 

This has happened so many times that I have given up on potty training all together and just put him in the garage (i feel terrible). It has been about a whole month since he has been in there.  But we have moved into a brand new house and just cannot deal with the pooping on my new carpet. I know that I have regressed in all of the work that I have put in to training him but I need serious help with training him or else. Maybe I was not doing the right thing. I used to think that maybe he was stupid or inbred or something. 

Everything i read online says that these dogs are extremely intellegent and easy to train. But, every one I meet that actually has one tells me how weird and hard to train these dogs are. I met my neighbor across the street last week and she said that she used to have a white one that she could not train and had to get rid of him ( she even went as far as to tell me that she was a dog trainer). I met another lady in line at Wal mart and she said that she had one and it always poops under her bed and she put it out on the porch. This has made me very discouraged about Lex Luthor. 

I know this is really long I'm sorry . This is how much I need help. Some one please help. I feel like selling him and getting a different dog. I am not having fun with my dog.  This sucks.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Ok, You've brought this poor dog out of one hell and you're thinking of sending him to another one? Yes, your dog is fearful, you have to work on building his trust and being his leader.

DON'T baby, but don't put him into situations he's scared of either. You are going to have to desensitize him to his fears. Forcing him onto a scary situation is flooding and it will make matters worse, possibly even causeing him to bite in self defense.

Unfortunatly temperment problems are common in dogs from puppy mills as they have NO socialization. Get "Cautious Canine" to work with him until you can a professional trainer or behaviorist to help you. Be sure whoever you bring in ONLY uses positive reenforcement, any type of punishment will only make things worse. Here are some links to help you.
http://www.ccpdt.org/
http://www.iaabc.org/

Honestly, you should have just walked away from the puppy mill, but you have him now and you need to stand behind him and take resposibility for him NOT dispose of him like garbage because he has a problem.


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## Snowshoe (Nov 17, 2006)

I think that CurbsideProphet would be a great one to ask. He has a mini schnauzer, and may have better advise on them. 

Here is some information on potty training older dogs: Potty Training Older Puppies and Adult Dogs 
You can use essentially the same routine as for puppies, but you will need to be much more vigilant and more patient, for a longer time period. Once an animal (or a person!) learns a habit, it can take a long time for it to go away. In scientific terms, the behavior isn't easily extinguished because the an intermittent reinforcement cycle is even more rewarding than an every-time one. In other words, if the dog now and then experiences a reward for eliminating in the house -- and the reward can simply be the natural sense of relief -- then his tendency will be to keep up the habit. (This doesn't only apply to potty training dogs -- it's a general principle.) 

How do you get around this? By creating a situation where the dog never eliminates in the house. This can be easier said than done, but keeping the dog in a crate, fenced yard, or outside pen when you are gone can be essential. 

One part is easier with older dogs: that long list of times to take the puppy out can be reduced quite a lot, since the dog can physically wait much longer between pit stops. If you haven't already figured out when your dog is most likely to need to go out, a little thought and observation should give you that information. Middle-of-the-night trips are less likely with older dogs. 

Some other options you can consider would be to consult a dog behaviorist. Your dog has massive confidence issues, and if you get angry at your dog, this will only reinforce his/her fear. You must be calm, and non-confrontational with your dog. If you yell, your dog will only fear you, and will not learn anything from you. 

Use a phermone stripping cleaner for when your dog does have accidents in the house. Dogs mark their territory with scent, so if you don't want your dog eliminating in the same place again and again, you must remove the scent marker. 

Crate your dog. I do not know if you crate train, but this was how we were able to house train our puppy. You can use the google search feature, and just type in "crate training." It will pop up tons of options. 

Plus, crate are really cheap. 

On another note, I think its sad when people get rid of their dogs. It's not his fault that you didn't reasearch his breeder before you picked him out, and that now you regret getting him from a puppy mill.


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## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks carla... I just don't know what to do. Is "Cautious Canine" a book? if so who is the author? I will check out the links that you have suggested. This is so frustrating to me because I really wanted an "inside" dog. 

He was good in the crate but I feel like He is so lonely. especially out in the garage.


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## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

Snowshoe, 
You are right I should have researched his breeder. This was my first dog and I was so anxious to just have a dog that I didn't even think about researching. But thank you for your tips. I have crate trained and was very successful at that. But it just seemed like all he did was stay in his crate because of when I let him out ( after taking him outside) he would do his buisness inside even after he went already outside. After He would poop in the house, I would make him smell it and then take him directly outside. Afterwards, I would put him back in the crate. I know that he didn't say to himself " I will hold it so I can make her mad". But it feels like it. So instead of always keeping him in the small crate. I just put him in the Garage. 

Before I even posted anything, I sent CurbsideProphet a PM. I hope he/she responds. 

I must even admit that I put him up on craigs list. Many people wanted him. But I could not bring my self to sell him. I feel obligated to help him. But I don't know how. 

This has been really frustrating for me and I just don't know what else to do. I am willing to give this one more shot. But I definately need help .


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

kredd said:


> Thanks carla... I just don't know what to do. Is "Cautious Canine" a book? if so who is the author? I will check out the links that you have suggested. This is so frustrating to me because I really wanted an "inside" dog.
> 
> He was good in the crate but I feel like He is so lonely. especially out in the garage.


Yes, I'm sorry I thought I put the authors name in the post It's by Dr. Patricia McConnell and available on www.dogwise.com 

By all means he should be an inside dog. Remember that he's had a horrific start in life and at his age is about the same as 2yr old child. Bring him back in, use the crate. He comes out of the crate, goes straight putside to do his business and reward heavily the minute his bottom comes up from the ground (lots of small yummy treats such as cut up hot dogs or cheese) for going outside. When he comes in, you have to watch him like a hawk! The minute he starts sniffing, take him back out and repeat. You will fade off he treats once he catches on, but that may take a while. Any time you can't watch him, he's in the crate (which should be in the family area) with a stuffed kong to chew on to relieve his anxiety. 

Also, have him checked to be sure there is no UTI.


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## Doberdude (Dec 23, 2006)

I had similar problems when I first brought my pup home. My pup acted all brave and like he got used to the house and then when I tried to take him outside he stood still wouldn't even take a step outside then did a puddle on my carpet. First off I say make outside like a fun place give him toys, play games etc so he starts to like going outside. Once my pup got used to going outside he had the exact same problem he would poo or pee outside then do another one once he gets in. When you take your dog out I suggest you try to make it run around a lot. I read an article about potty training that says running will make affect the pups digestive time and he'll need to go after running. (it will only work if he is sniffing) I take my dog out and let him pee then I play a game with him that involves running and after the game he sniffs arounds then poops. Now my pup thinks going outside to poop is fun! This worked for me so you can try it to see if it helps


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## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

Doberdude said:


> I had similar problems when I first brought my pup home. My pup acted all brave and like he got used to the house and then when I tried to take him outside he stood still wouldn't even take a step outside then did a puddle on my carpet. First off I say make outside like a fun place give him toys, play games etc so he starts to like going outside. Once my pup got used to going outside he had the exact same problem he would poo or pee outside then do another one once he gets in. When you take your dog out I suggest you try to make it run around a lot. I read an article about potty training that says running will make affect the pups digestive time and he'll need to go after running. (it will only work if he is sniffing) I take my dog out and let him pee then I play a game with him that involves running and after the game he sniffs arounds then poops. Now my pup thinks going outside to poop is fun! This worked for me so you can try it to see if it helps



Thanks I'll try it. I am going to bring him back in tomorrow. And start all over. Wish me luck.....


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## mom to lil buddy (Dec 17, 2006)

I would agree with the exercise to facilitate elimination. My new Shih Tzu is esentially a rescue and while I can't walk well, I can run her around in circles on her lead and it helps. I also learned that my min schnauzer wasn't done until she'd eliminated twice. Don't give up! Max's Mom


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## opokki (May 30, 2006)

Is he anxious even when you take him oustide to potty? 

You might also be interested in picking up "Way to Go! How to housetrain a dog of any age" by Patricia McConnell. This can also be found on dogwise or amazon.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

How old was the dog when you purchased him? Elsa was also a puppy-mill product that I fortunately was able to rescue at 12 weeks. Being a puppy was obviously an advantage in her training, but she still had a few anxiety issues and fear issues that we had to work on, and still do. A couple of things you need to consider is your dog savvy. It sounds as though you're frustrated and possibly do not have the energy to work on his problems any further? Are you getting any help from your spouse? Let me put it this way, if you really believe you can't handle this dog, please hire a behaviorist, and Carla left a couple of valuable links to find one. If a behaviorist isn't an option, please contact your nearest mini schnauzer rescue and consult with them. They may be able to get in contact with someone in your area who can help, or possibly make arrangements to rehome your dog. Craig's list is not where you wan't to start, and I'm glad you reconsidered. It's hard for us to guess what triggers your dog's fears, and a behaviorists eyes are valuable in developing a treatment plan. Besides living in the garage, what is your dog's daily life like? This dog really does need to be an inside dog with a lot of supervision. Can he get a lot of supervision throughout the day? When he pooped in your daughters room, was he being supervised? These dogs need a lot of exercise, they are very much high energy. Exercise is key. What kind of exercise does he get? Is he neutered? The real question is this...what's more valuable, your carpet, or your dog's happiness. If you say your carpet, I'd say rehome the dog and seriously reconsider getting another. If the dog's happiness is more valuable, please hire a behaviorist. We can give you basic tips to help you be more dog savvy, but when it comes to fear issues and frustration, I always feel as though only a behaviorist, who has the advantage of observation, is what's best.

I read in your other post that the dog is six months old, and above you stated you've had him for 5 months? How young was the pup again when you bought him? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? Way too young for the pup to be taken away from it's mother. I don't care what kind of dog it is, doing this can cause serious psychological problems, that will require a lot of work on your part to remedy. I do hope you're up for the challenge, but if you're determined and seek help, you can do it. Please call a behaviorist.


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## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

opokki said:


> Is he anxious even when you take him oustide to potty?
> 
> You might also be interested in picking up "Way to Go! How to housetrain a dog of any age" by Patricia McConnell. This can also be found on dogwise or amazon.


Yes. He gets scared when cars come by. Now he barks if he sees other people. But if they come to close, he has his tail (or nub) btw his legs and pees. He also starts howling sometimes.  He is terrified.


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## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

Curbside Prophet said:


> How old was the dog when you purchased him? Elsa was also a puppy-mill product that I fortunately was able to rescue at 12 weeks. Being a puppy was obviously an advantage in her training, but she still had a few anxiety issues and fear issues that we had to work on, and still do. A couple of things you need to consider is your dog savvy. It sounds as though you're frustrated and possibly do not have the energy to work on his problems any further? Are you getting any help from your spouse? Let me put it this way, if you really believe you can't handle this dog, please hire a behaviorist, and Carla left a couple of valuable links to find one. If a behaviorist isn't an option, please contact your nearest mini schnauzer rescue and consult with them. They may be able to get in contact with someone in your area who can help, or possibly make arrangements to rehome your dog. Craig's list is not where you wan't to start, and I'm glad you reconsidered. It's hard for us to guess what triggers your dog's fears, and a behaviorists eyes are valuable in developing a treatment plan. Besides living in the garage, what is your dog's daily life like? This dog really does need to be an inside dog with a lot of supervision. Can he get a lot of supervision throughout the day? When he pooped in your daughters room, was he being supervised? These dogs need a lot of exercise, they are very much high energy. Exercise is key. What kind of exercise does he get? Is he neutered? The real question is this...what's more valuable, your carpet, or your dog's happiness. If you say your carpet, I'd say rehome the dog and seriously reconsider getting another. If the dog's happiness is more valuable, please hire a behaviorist. We can give you basic tips to help you be more dog savvy, but when it comes to fear issues and frustration, I always feel as though only a behaviorist, who has the advantage of observation, is what's best.
> 
> I read in your other post that the dog is six months old, and above you stated you've had him for 5 months? How young was the pup again when you bought him? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? Way too young for the pup to be taken away from it's mother. I don't care what kind of dog it is, doing this can cause serious psychological problems, that will require a lot of work on your part to remedy. I do hope you're up for the challenge, but if you're determined and seek help, you can do it. Please call a behaviorist.



Well lets start with It has almost been 5 months and he is about 7 months old . I got him when he was around 7 weeks. According to the "breeder" - puppy mill I got him from. I really didn't do my homework like I should have when I decieded to purchase Lex. I was so happy that my hubby finally agreed to let us girls ( me and my two girls) have a dog that I hurried before he changed his mind. And I drove two hours to what was a puppy mill and i got lost and i wasn't leaving without the cutie that caught my eye. I felt like I rescued him. I am a stay at home mom and I run my own business - from home. So I am able to watch him. But when he went in my my daughters room I was watching him then he followed her in there for like 2 minutes. Then I smelt the aroma.  But of course she is 2 yrs and cant really watch a dog. But this has been almost immediately after I took him out side and he pooped. And the thing that baffeled me the most was that it is alot more poop than he did out side. 

And now he is in the garage ( i feel terrible) he does not get the exercise he needs, He gets to run around freely but I know that is not enough. This is why I want to bring him back in . I really do want to give him another chance. Because he needs help. And i don't just want to toss him to the wind. We just moved to this new house about a month ago, and he has not 
had the opportunity to do anything in here. 

Honestly, I don't feel as though I know who my dog is because he is so scared. I have never come across a more scarry dog in my life. He is not neutered yet. I have been told to wait until he is one year old. My dogs happiness is important to me. 

I have a few questions for you. Was your dog easy to house break? Does your dog roam your home freely if so what is that like? Do you keep Elsa in a crate? and How did you train her? What are some key pointers to how you did it? People I have spoken with say that their mini schnauzer goes under their bed when they are not looking. I will try contacting a behaviorist tomorrow and see what they can do for me.

Thanks for your reply ....


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## Silverpawz (Nov 27, 2006)

It sounds like your dog is very confused and unsure of what you expect. If he came from a puppy mill that's probably the reason you're having such a hard time housebrekaing him. In mills most dogs are allowed to use the bathroom wherever, or even inside their crates and just sit in it. 

This makes it hard to train them since they have no concept of staying clean. It's just normal to them to use the bathroom whever they see fit. 

I would suggest starting from scratch like you have a brand new puppy. One with no training, no idea how to be husebroken, and no clue what you want.
Set him up on a scedule if you can and take him out at regular times. I'd probably go with every two-three hours during the day if that's possible for you.

When he's inside, keep him on a leash and loop the end around your wrist. Now he's attached to you. Whever you go, he goes. He won't be able to sneak off and use the bathroom in a bedroom. This will prevent him from making mistakes and give you more opprotunity to praise him for going outside.

If you can't be with him then he needs to go in his crate. 

If you see a pattern of him having an accident an hour or so after coming in, then make sure you take him back out around that time to prevent it. 

Housebreaking is all about prevention. You've got your work cut out for with with a mill puppy, but it can be done with the right training and some paitience.


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## Lokum (Jan 5, 2007)

as you said your dog has confidence problem but please don't give up anyway how can you sell that dog nobody wants to buy I guess but you should give a chance too.I joined a conference in turkey about positive dog training in the video show I saw that it so simple to exercise you can use pasteboard box for example jump in that's example of courge and you must use the way of giving award that can be the thing it loves most may be a dog biscuit or playing with its best toy but you must try before giving him up...


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

kredd said:


> And now he is in the garage ( i feel terrible) he does not get the exercise he needs, He gets to run around freely but I know that is not enough. This is why I want to bring him back in . I really do want to give him another chance. Because he needs help. And i don't just want to toss him to the wind. We just moved to this new house about a month ago, and he has not
> had the opportunity to do anything in here.
> 
> Honestly, I don't feel as though I know who my dog is because he is so scared. I have never come across a more scarry dog in my life. He is not neutered yet. I have been told to wait until he is one year old. My dogs happiness is important to me.
> ...


The first think I think you need to change is your attitude towards this dog. The idea of "giving him one more chance" is going to promote failure. You are smarter than the dog, and you CAN do this. But it's going to take time and more than anything, it's going to take training yourself.

If you are blaming the dog for not being housebroken yet, then you are placing the blame on the wrong party. The one at fault is the one that should be in control but is not. And again, you have to be smarter than the dog. When you let the dog free, even for 2 minutes, in your daughter's room, and then make a comment about your daughter being 2 years old and not really being able to watch the dog - then you are looking to place the blame on anyone/anything but yourself. YOU weren't vigilant, YOU didn't keep the dog where you could see him, YOU let him out of sight and on his own. Now it's perfectly understandable that you thought he had eliminated outside, and so there was nothing else he could do, but now you know that's not the case - so you need to tighten up your own methods of housebreaking. You certainly wouldn't consider giving up your daughter if she wasn't following the rules - you'd redirect your own efforts to make sure that you made it more likely for her to succeed.

By the way, is your daughter potty trained? If not, then the dog may be picking up an odor on your flooring from the occasional leaky diaper, which might be encouraging him to go inside. I realize you have new carpets now, but if you had used an odor eliminator on the old carpet, it might have helped. And if your daughter still isn't potty trained, then the new carpet is at risk as well.

Puppy mill dogs are a whole different type of dog. It would be like fostering or adopting a young child from a neglectful or abusive home. You can expect them to have issues, and whether your choice was advisable or not, he now depends on you. I do hope that if you do give up, you will contact a schnauzer rescue, but it's going to be very difficult to find a home for him with people that want to take on his issues. I agree with the post above that Craig's list is not a good place to start, but whoever you might decide to give him to, you owe him to screen the new home carefully. What experience have they had with puppymill dogs? What are they willing to do to solve the problems (a behaviorist?)?

I too encourage you to seek the help of a behaviorist, mostly for his fear issues. The goal will be only partially to fix his issues, the goal will also be to train you how to cope with those issues and how not to send him the wrong signals (like babying him when he's afraid).

And finally, there is no good reason to wait to neuter him. He's old enough, and you don't need more testosterone driven problems.

Remember, if your dog potty's in the house, take a newspaper, roll it up tightly, and smack yourself across the nose, because you weren't vigilant, and you didn't get him out in time.


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## Lokum (Jan 5, 2007)

punishmet or being in a bad attitude or being more stubbern never works that kind of characters ...I think so...


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

kredd said:


> I have a few questions for you. Was your dog easy to house break? Does your dog roam your home freely if so what is that like? Do you keep Elsa in a crate? and How did you train her? What are some key pointers to how you did it? People I have spoken with say that their mini schnauzer goes under their bed when they are not looking. I will try contacting a behaviorist tomorrow and see what they can do for me.


Easy to house break? I thought she did fine. She was probably fully house broken at about 6 months of age, but I really didn't give her any freedoms until she was 8 months of age. I had the mindset that it would take up to a year to house break her, and her 8 month freedoms was a trial that stuck. Why did I expect it to take so long? Primarily because of the methods I thought were best for my situation. I did use the crate whenever I could...mostly when I was home, or knew she wouldn't be locked up for more than a couple of hours. When I had to leave her for longer periods of time (over 4 hours), I used the paper training method. I luckily had a completely empty bedroom that was puppyproof. You may not have a room like I did, but you may have a kitchen that you could gate off or a large bathroom, or better yet an exercise pen. I'm not opposed to using the crate, but I am opposed to overusing it. When in the bedroom, I left her plenty of chew toys, and interactive toys like Kongs and Buster Cubes to keep her busy. I'd leave the radio on, and came home mid day to take her out for a potty break. The key to any house training method is rewarding the dog for doing it's business in the place you want them to go. Do you praise your dog when he eliminates outside? For a dog with low confidence, your neighbors should know by your excitement that your dog has eliminated outside. But do you know if your dog can tell when your happy? 

Elsa does, now, and for about the past year have free roam of the house. It's great as far as I'm concerned, however, I do need to pay attention to what I leave laying around. She loves to destroy cardboard boxes and magazines if they are left on the floor...why she doesn't touch them when they are on the couch, I don't know...but I would not argue that when they are on the floor it's related to her paper training days because she played with the newspapers then too. Nevertheless, I'm over conscious about keeping my home puppyproof. 

The only time that I now use the crate is when a stranger enters my home. Its to make my life easier as I have a hard time focusing on more than one thing. So I'll keep her in the crate while I attend to the stranger. Otherwise, Elsa is capable of a long down-stay when known guests are around, and when needed. Elsa does choose to use the crate on her own, and this is how I prefer the crate to be used in my home. If I'm watching football and it's too loud, she'll crawl into her crate for a nap. 

I started Elsa's training with puppy school at about 16 weeks. Depending on when you can gain a handle on your dog's fear issues, puppy school or obedience school should be something for you and your family (as everyone in your family should be involved) to consider. I chose group training so my dog could socialize with many different types of dogs. She very much is a sponge to active learning. We've toyed with agility on our own, and I'm fully confident if and when we dedicate ourselves to training advanced again (I'm currently busy remodeling my home), she will succeed in agility as I've seen many minis succeed. Participating in a sport like this may not be in your future, but keeping any dog happy and healthy requires giving them a job to do. This leads into your next question.

The basis of Elsa's training is no different than training any dog. You need to find a balance between physical stimulation (exercise), mental stimulation (activities that make the dog think), and social stimulation (meeting new people, places, and dogs). I spend about 1/2 my time with Elsa exercising, walking on heel, running, or running through agility drills. I'll spend 2/3rds of the remaining time on reinforcing commands we've learned or teaching new tasks...currently we're working on climbing a step ladder. Part of building confidence is setting up your dog for reward. Setting up small achievements and building up as you go. Elsa would normally avoid the step ladder, she has an aversion to some stationary objects, but over time with a lot of work she will now get both paws to the top step. She's starting to show signs that she wants to climb higher with her rear legs, but we're not there yet. Whether she succeeds or fails isn't what's important to me, but giving her a chance to earn reward with thought is. Finally, the balance of our time together is spent on frequenting new parks, visiting our friends, the dog park, or saying hello to new dogs on our walk. 

Finally, NILIF is applicable to all dogs: Nothing in Life is Free
NILIF is where leadership is made.

Please let us know how your search for a behaviorist goes. Good luck!


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## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

All of you Guys are right!!! I am not going to give up. I CAN DO IT! I will stick with him and work it out. I have not yet contacted the behaviorist but I will today ( guess I better hurry up). Lex does need help and all of your tips are very helpful. When I was growing up, the only dogs we had were outside only dogs and dogs were treated much differently than you guys treat your dog (like they are a part of the family). So we never dealt with these problems. But I want to and will ( I changed my attitude) break the mold and work on him. I will keep my success with him posted. I am going to Petco today and purchase Lex somenew toys and some yummy treats. And we will begin again starting anew today....

Curbside Profit... You have been an inspiration for me (with Elsa) to help Lex and deal with it. He is who I have and picked , and I think I would be able to appreciate him more given all we have been thru and have ahead. 

DogAdvocat... Thank you for not sugar coating it. It is me that has not be stern enough and yes I have myself to blame. 

SilverPaws... Excellent suggestion regarding keeping him on a leash in the house and taking him with me... I never thought about that. 

Thanks everyone for you helpful tips. I will keep you posted on my success story with lex. And I know I will be back to vent and ask for more tips from you experts.


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## opokki (May 30, 2006)

kredd said:


> Yes. He gets scared when cars come by. Now he barks if he sees other people. But if they come to close, he has his tail (or nub) btw his legs and pees. He also starts howling sometimes.  He is terrified.


In that case, this could also be a factor in your housebreaking troubles. If he gets startled, he may not be finishing outdoors. Maybe this is why he goes again so soon after coming back inside.

I think you'll do fine! Just be patient and consistant. Best of luck!


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## Stella (Jan 9, 2007)

I got my rescue dog at 6 months and it took 3 months to housetrain her. She was very timid and skiddish as well and it took a lot of love and a thousand times more patience. You just have to laugh inside when they make a mess and not let it get the best of you. 

One way to eliminate dog elimination odors naturally is to mix vanilla essential oils with water in a spray bottle and after you clean the spot on the carpet, spray that on top.

You can do this. Repeat that every time you get frustrated. You can do this. This dog has nothing else in the world...except you. Lex relies on you to feed him, bathe him, guide him, and love him. So take care of him. He deserves it, right?

Oh, and get him into training NOW.


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## Lokum (Jan 5, 2007)

kredd said:


> All of you Guys are right!!! I am not going to give up. I CAN DO IT! I will stick with him and work it out. I have not yet contacted the behaviorist but I will today ( guess I better hurry up). Lex does need help and all of your tips are very helpful. When I was growing up, the only dogs we had were outside only dogs and dogs were treated much differently than you guys treat your dog (like they are a part of the family). So we never dealt with these problems. But I want to and will ( I changed my attitude) break the mold and work on him. I will keep my success with him posted. I am going to Petco today and purchase Lex somenew toys and some yummy treats. And we will begin again starting anew today....



that's a really a piece of good news ,, yes right pets or dogs are like children that never grow up we should work on them for happier life both for us and for them ... so good luck ....


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## skunkstripe (Oct 28, 2006)

kredd said:


> I have crate trained and was very successful at that. But it just seemed like all he did was stay in his crate because of when I let him out ( after taking him outside) he would do his buisness inside even after he went already outside. After He would poop in the house, I would make him smell it and then take him directly outside. Afterwards, I would put him back in the crate. I know that he didn't say to himself " I will hold it so I can make her mad". But it feels like it. So instead of always keeping him in the small crate. I just put him in the Garage.


I think this contains part of the answer. It does not help to "make a dog smell it" and probably makes it worse. First off, dogs do not think their own poo is gross. Heck, some of them eat it. It is not the same reaction that a human would have to feces. So shoving his snout into it is telling him that you are unhappy, but the dog does not draw the conclusion you want. Instead of thinking "the reason my human is unhappy with me is because I pooed in the house", he thinks "my human is unhappy with me because he saw me pooing". This is what leads to dogs being secretive about pooing and choosing spots where they think no one will see them, at least no one who might scold them.

So back off on rubbing his nose in it. Instead jsut watch him like a hawk and if he starts to go inside, don't make a federal case out of it and do not even scold. Just say "no" and whisk him outside. The last thing you want is for him to be skittish about pooing. If /when he poos outside act like he just won the Nobel prize.

Good luck


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## DogAdvocat (Nov 30, 2006)

skunkstripe said:


> I think this contains part of the answer. It does not help to "make a dog smell it" and probably makes it worse. First off, dogs do not think their own poo is gross. Heck, some of them eat it. It is not the same reaction that a human would have to feces. So shoving his snout into it is telling him that you are unhappy, but the dog does not draw the conclusion you want. Instead of thinking "the reason my human is unhappy with me is because I pooed in the house", he thinks "my human is unhappy with me because he saw me pooing". This is what leads to dogs being secretive about pooing and choosing spots where they think no one will see them, at least no one who might scold them.
> 
> So back off on rubbing his nose in it. Instead jsut watch him like a hawk and if he starts to go inside, don't make a federal case out of it and do not even scold. Just say "no" and whisk him outside. The last thing you want is for him to be skittish about pooing. If /when he poos outside act like he just won the Nobel prize.
> 
> Good luck


Excellent advice !!!


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## skunkstripe (Oct 28, 2006)

Plus he is terrified of being outside. NO animal wants to pee or poo where they feel that something bad can happen to them. He feels safe in your daughter's room, but not outside with the cars whizzing by. That is not surprising. So you have to deal with his fear of being outside. My opinion (and I am just guessing because I am not there to see what is happening) is that until your dog gets over his fear of being outside he will not want to poo there. Can you leash walk him somewhere where there is less traffic so he has a chance to gradually get used to those sounds? If he really was in a puppymill that is all going to be extremely scary to him.


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## RobDar (Dec 28, 2006)

First and foremost...
where ever you got this dog from needs to be reported to local authorities. 
If they represented themselves as a rescue I WANT TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE!

Second...
your vet is right. Time and patience will pay off...BUT LET ME MAKE A POINT....
you and your family need to sit down and make a decision RIGHT NOW! no dilly daddling...no messing around! Working with this dog will take time and alot of it. *It could take months* for him to improve. If you and your family cannot tolerate his behaviors or are unsure how to manage them, or just feel his is not the dog for you...the dog will be best served by sending him on to someone who has the experience and the know how to help him through. Let me explain this....
I am not trying to convince you to give up your dog...just sharing an opinion.

too many people hold on to dogs like this for too long. Be it their pride, their guilt, or just not wanting to feel like they have given up...whatever the reason. As a rescuer let me tell you this...it has to be about the dog. Alot of people will try to make you feel guilty or whatever for "giving up" on a dog with behaviors like yours...like you are less of a person because you could not tolerate a few problems...THAT IS BULL HOCKEY!!!!! If you cannot tolerate the behaviors and do not feel qualified to manage them, there is nothing wrong with that...do not feel quilty, do not let anyone make you feel quilty. You need to do what is best for the dog.

a dog like yours obviously has trust issues. Can they be fixed? Yes you bet...with time and patience..(and new carpet LOL)...the dog will get better...but it can take a LONG time sometimes. You have to decide if you are in it for the long haul or not. Are you going to be okay if in 6 months the dog still pees when your brother in law comes over??? If you decide to keep the dog and work through these issues...it HAS TO BE FOR THE LONG HAUL...this is not a "well lets work at it awhile and see if it gets better" decision. This is an all or nothing decision. Just be aware of that! It will be much worse for the dog for you to work with him for six months, THEN decide you cannot do it anymore, and give him up after he is just part way "fixed". Re- homing a dog is stressful for the dog,...Re-homing a dog like yours can be downright tramatic for the dog. It is better to stop now and find someone who can take the time and has the know how to work with him, than it is to start him down the road and then not be able to lead him the rest of the way home _( as it were)_

Does that make sense? Did I explain that well enough?

So talk about it with your family. It is a tough decision for sure, but decide soon. Do what is best for the dog and be honest with yourselves about your own tolerances and abilities. Not everyone can handle a dog like yours...and there is nothing wrong with that...but only you and your family can answer that for yourselves.


IF YOU DO DECIDE TO FIND A NEW PLACE FOR YOUR DOG....
I would of course suggest a rescue with these cautions...

1. Try to find a rescue that specializes in your breed. 

2. Ask the rescue for references...if they baulk at being asked...find a different rescue. _( they either do not have the references or are too arrogant to think you have the right to ask for them...either way they are inexperienced or have too bad of an attitude to actually be any good at what they do)_

3. If they make you feel quilty or act otherwise disrespectful of your decision...find a different rescue. _(bad attitude thing again)_

4. take the time to drive to the rescue so you can see for yourself where the dog will be housed etc etc etc. If they *insist* _( not suggest but actually insist) _to meet you along the highway or *refuse *to let you drop off the dog...find a different rescue!!!

hope this was helpful.


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## poofywoof (Nov 17, 2006)

*advice*

Excellent advice, Robdar!!! You took the words right out of my mouth, I couldn't have said it better.
I concur that it must be a PERMANENT COMMITMENT to this dog, not just "try this and see if it helps" , and if not then go to Plan B. They will have to keep this dog til death do them part! ; )
I also believe that a dog like this isn't for everyone, not just anyone can handle and manage the problems he will need to overcome, and I believe that if one looks ONLY at what's best for the dog, that one could go so far as to say that the dog would be better served in a home where the owner had some experience with these issues and could provide more than the "average dog owner" can.


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## puppymom (Dec 18, 2006)

I guess the first thought that came into my mind was.......if the two year old accidentally peed on the new carpet or was afraid of certain things in her world......would you put her in a crate in the garage and just give up on her??? Adopting a puppy is a committment that shouldn't be taken lightly and it just angers me that some people feel that because it's an animal it can be discarded like the trash. If things don't work out they are just passed from home to home. These little beings are living creatures with feelings just like humans and they can become just as confused as we can. The only difference between them and us is they love unconditionally.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

i don't know if anyone mentioned this or not (i didn't read all the posts) but one thing that i have ALWAYS found effective in bringing in the new dog, especially one w/ "trust" issues, is umbilical cording.....as already mentioned, use straight positives w/ him and if you have him tied to you you can watch him more closely and he won't be in the crate.....you can still play w/ him, just on a shorter play area, and if he looks like he is getting ready to potty at all say, "let's go out potty" in a happy tone and take him out in an area that is quiet.....give him time to "do his thing" and then play w/ him outside for a few minutes.....if he does happen to pee or poop b/4 you can get him out the door a gentle "noooo" and out the door is more than enuff....

i just adopted a Border Collie in Dec. that was obviously not well house broke and this is the method i used w/ her....she has not pottied in the house since the first wk here.....her confidence level has also gone up (she was a bit timid at first in new situations) .....

another thing is --use treats-- i found that toasted hot dog (turkey) pieces work great and they're not that expensive....

good luck....and i know w/ the time and right conditions he will come around....how old is he?


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## kredd (Jan 8, 2007)

Stella said:


> I got my rescue dog at 6 months and it took 3 months to housetrain her. She was very timid and skiddish as well and it took a lot of love and a thousand times more patience. You just have to laugh inside when they make a mess and not let it get the best of you.
> 
> One way to eliminate dog elimination odors naturally is to mix vanilla essential oils with water in a spray bottle and after you clean the spot on the carpet, spray that on top.
> 
> ...


I can look back and think of a really funny time now. Lex made me so mad that I can laugh at it now. One day I had a few errands to do and I knew I was going to be out for atleat 4 hours so I put Lex in his crate. My two year old more than likely unlocked the door to the crate without me knowing. 

When we cam back home ( night time ) , I went into the room where Lex's crate was and there was no Lex. I was shocked because I didn't know how he got out or even where he was. Then I started up the stairs. and I smelt the aroma of puppy poop. And when i went up stairs and turned on the light, POOP WAS EVERY WHERE. In my daughters room, my bedroom, the hall, even my daughters doll house. It seemed like the poop bomb exploded. It was sooo much poop. I never imagined that this was even possible. My husbad was livid. ... and now it is so funny to me. 

When I got to the stairs, Lex was trying to come down. I am thinking that he already knew what he did. He will go up but is scared to come down. I took him outside and then crated him. He was so quiet for the rest of the night.


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## workingdog (Oct 19, 2006)

Well i guess i'll put in my 2 cents. With time and lots of love i know as sure as i'm sitting here that your dog will come around. I'm sure it picks up on your frustration and dosn't feel at ease with you. Make it feel like part of the family. It will take time and lots of work but it will be all worth it in the end.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

I'm glad you wont give up on him.

But how about socialization. he needs to not be afraid fo things. And you say he dosnt go out (as in walks0 very often. How about puppy classes. You can take him to with other dogs and people. That way he can get used to other dogs and people. And he will become obident with time as well. Problems sounds as in he is afraid to be alone so he dosnt wnat to go outside byhimself. so he does it int he house. You need to prove to him that being around cars other people trees ect are not scary and can be alot of fun. My dog was terrified of cars until he was about a year and a bit old (I would have to carry him in to the car. Not fun carrying a 70lbs puppy around lol). You just have to make a it a great place. Give him treats for going up to cars ect praise him. You have to each him he wont learn it on his own. He will look up to you as the alpha dog int he pack, and will do what you want im to . You need to work with him and train him to not be afraid.


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## sucker4pups (Jan 19, 2007)

On the case of Lex Luther needing to build confidence i have the perfect idea! my dog Drakose was very timid, and he was also scared of everything! we got him in those pet trainging classes and even those were not helping to get him out of his shell. the training instructor recommended to start taking him to a dog park! i started to take him and he absolutly hated it. he would hide under a picnic table the whole time. eventually though after taking him about 3 times a week for a couple months he is completly cured! he is great with other dogs and people now! no more peeing when scarred either! he loves it so much now that we still go all the time and we both have so many more friends just from going!


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## poochie pants (Jan 18, 2007)

Just one more thing to consider --dogs will poo when they get nervous or excited. They can get nervous tummies just like people.

My previous dog could poo then go into an unfamiliar environment and leave a present very quickly. He never acted scared or timid to warm you something was up.

When I got Macie, my current pup, she was scared to death of everything! She had never been outside before. I had her outside a ton so she would get used to the sights and sounds. We played outside, just walked around, I let her explore in in the garden. 

Now, with that said; even after tons of socialization she is timid towards other people. She is all about her mom. She will play with them but never ever will she stand still to let them pet her.


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