# Is "puppy food" really necessary for puppies?



## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Not sure if it is actually necessary or if it is a marketing scheme. Haven't seen too many notable differences in ingredients. 


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Puppy food, even large breed puppy food, is BAD for giant breed puppies. The last thing we want to do is encourage fast growth.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what the differences are. I fed it in the past to pups, but I'm not sure I would now if I went back to smaller breeds.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Eh, not really. Some brands may be more calorie-dense, so the puppy wouldn't have to eat as much, and some brands have different levels of some vitamins/minerals, supposedly to be more suited to a growing pup, but other than that, no, there isn't much difference. I know that a lot of large-breed breeders won't use puppy food at all.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

Some times it is also the size of the kibble it's self (like with TOTW) but I really don't think there is much of a difference.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I never put BB on puppy food, she went straight to adult, and she is perfectly fine lol. I also really don't think there is much of a difference.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

packetsmom said:


> Puppy food, even large breed puppy food, is BAD for giant breed puppies. The last thing we want to do is encourage fast growth.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what the differences are. I fed it in the past to pups, but I'm not sure I would now if I went back to smaller breeds.


I see a lot of large breed puppy food that says they encourage slower growth. but meh different brands and such do different things

The only differences I can see in most puppy foods is more calorie content and kibble size unless it's large breed where I have seen lower calcium content as well. 

IME most puppies do just as well on an "all stages" food


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Most of my pups are put on Canidae All Stages. I never really worry with puppy food.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

@packetsmom - Puppy food, even large breed puppy food, is BAD for giant breed puppies. 

Not debating asking for info....
1. Is large breed puppy food OK for large breeds. I've always assumed naively that it provided adequate nutrition for slow growth?
2. I know this should be obvious, but asking anyway - Do Giant breeds grow that much faster than large breeds?
3. So what do you feed a Giant breed to slow down growth?
4. And just in case my assumptions are completely wrong - I assume slow growth is for joint issues, like elbows, etc. [Info from 20y ago].


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

not aimed at me but in blue is my understanding of things



hanksimon said:


> @packetsmom - Puppy food, even large breed puppy food, is BAD for giant breed puppies.
> 
> Not debating asking for info....
> 1. Is large breed puppy food OK for large breeds. I've always assumed naively that it provided adequate nutrition for slow growth?
> ...


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Ok here I go to buck the trend. All my dogs are on Solid Gold large breed puppy-- my bernese mt dog grew very slowly on it and even now at 18months his is just tipping the scale at around 105 lbs... they have been on this food since we got my giant schnauzer 3.5 years ago-- why? I liked the ingredients and the formula (less carbs and more protein)-- and you get a 33 lb bag for the same price as the adult formula 28lb bag-- I am feeding75% kibble and 25%raw/ homemade anyway (they get hamburger cottage cheese rice and raw eggs with the kibble and raw in the AM)-- the 13 yr old dog (bad teeth) gets less kibble and more homemade and warm water.... SO anyways I dont worry too much about the formulations bet puppy and adult... and its cheaper.....

(Before that we were on Solid Gold adult formula- we have used this food for almost 20 yrs now and it was worked for us.)...


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Personally I think it's all a marketing thing.... That's why I like All Life Stages foods... 


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Some is, some isn't. Many large breed puppy foods are perfectly safe and necessary for large breed puppies with a low calcium content and appropriate phosphorus. I would feed these to large breed puppies. There are many large breed puppy foods that are unsafe. Equally, their are many adult foods that are safe to feed them and many that aren't. 

For a dog that will mature to less than 60 lbs, I start off feeding a high quality grain free adult dog food, and have had no issues. I start off with an appropriate large breed puppy formula for large breed puppies.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

I'm learning a lot about this whole large breed puppy growth thing.... I didn't know the idea was to try to slow their growth.... So what do you do with a food that isn't necessarily large breed puppy?? Like Evo for example. Feed less of it? Or what? It's there a grain free large breed puppy food out there?


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Meant to say IS there a grain free large breed puppy formula out there?... 


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Zilla said:


> I'm learning a lot about this whole large breed puppy growth thing.... I didn't know the idea was to try to slow their growth.... So what do you do with a food that isn't necessarily large breed puppy?? Like Evo for example. Feed less of it? Or what? It's there a grain free large breed puppy food out there?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If it has a lower calcium content then it should be fine to feed, though feed the amount you dog does well on. Usually the amounts recommended on the bags are much too high for any dog that isn't a sports dog. 
There are grain free large breed puppy foods out there, (ex: Origen, but it has a little too high calcium content) they're just a bit harder to find.
A raw diet would also work for a LB puppy


Edit: "Now Fresh" also offers a grain free LB puppy food


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think EVO even says on the bag not to use it for dogs under a year old. It's WAY too high in calcium (I think. Too high in something anyway ).

I think a couple of the TOTW formulas have been recommended by giant-breed breeders. . .I'll have to look that up.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

If the bag states for all stages than it should be fine to give to puppies. Now their are some foods (prescription food) who are not meant to be fed all the time nor all life stages. I think owners are afraid of their fast growing puppies getting a disease nicknamed 'pano' http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=PRINT&A=3238
When a pup has this you would sometimes think the pup broke a leg because it is so painful. I believe what type of food should be based on breed, exercise and any diseases the dog is facing. My dog food pantry looks like a mini dog food mart.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Evo is all life stages. It wouldn't make sense for it to say that on the bag. 

So what about large breed adult formulas?? Are those really necessary? I was told its kind of pointless. That the kibble is so processed that even if they added joint supplements its not enough to make an impact so buying a simple joint supplement would be better.... 


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

hanksimon said:


> @packetsmom - Puppy food, even large breed puppy food, is BAD for giant breed puppies.
> 
> Not debating asking for info....
> 1. Is large breed puppy food OK for large breeds. I've always assumed naively that it provided adequate nutrition for slow growth?
> ...


This all comes from the Bernese Mountain Dog and St. Bernard Breeders I've talked to.

1. Most say it's a gimmic and that they'd even feed a lab pup an all-stages food. Most do not like the protein and calcium balances.
2. Giant breeds do grow differently than large breeds. Their bones and joints take longer to mature. It's important to try to make sure they grow as slowly as possible so that there is less stress on those growing joints and bones. It's also important to keep them on the lean side while they grow, to reduce the stress on bones and joints.
3. We feed Canidae All-stages, which is what was recommended by our BMD breeder. I know other giant owners who feed other high quality foods, looking at the calcium and protein contents and I know some that feed prey model raw. Those who do feed raw tend to feed less bone than others might, and watch the balance between bone and meat very carefully, particularly with pups.
4. Yep.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

for me it's the quality of the ingredients that makes the different in fast growth spurts for poor quality numbers and even growth for high quality ingredients numbers.. grains vs meat sources you can't get any higher numbers then feeding a raw meat/bone diet to a double pano strong 90lb average GSD line, didn't get any growth spurts and didn't get any pano episoides It ended all future litters from those lines having pups that went through pano .... so do believe the study I read a long time ago that it is quality of ingredients that make a difference... most kibbles have completely changed old common poor ingredients in the last 20 years.. think alot of the old information connected with older dog food is still floating around.


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## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

When researching this, I found that the only difference between the food I'm feeding my adult and the puppy version is the addition of DHA in the puppy formula. This article states that DHA should not be provided through supplements...but it's also sponsored by Iams. I would really love to be able to feed my adult and puppy the same thing. Any thoughts on the DHA issue or experience with supplementing? Do you think that a food with fish in it would provide sufficient DHA?


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Analytical Ada said:


> When researching this, I found that the only difference between the food I'm feeding my adult and the puppy version is the addition of DHA in the puppy formula. This article states that DHA should not be provided through supplements...but it's also sponsored by Iams. I would really love to be able to feed my adult and puppy the same thing. Any thoughts on the DHA issue or experience with supplementing? Do you think that a food with fish in it would provide sufficient DHA?


Doesn't any food with some kind of fish oil have DHA?? :lol: 


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## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

Zilla said:


> Doesn't any food with some kind of fish oil have DHA?? :lol:
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That's what I'm thinking and leaning toward as a solution. Just wanted to see if others had any thoughts.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

I thought most Fish oil had DHA...*looks at fish oil suppliments I give Manna* yup DHA


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## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

Flaming said:


> I thought most Fish oil had DHA...*looks at fish oil suppliments I give Manna* yup DHA


Yay for not needing to buy a second bag of dog food! What brand of fish oil do you use?


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Analytical Ada said:


> Yay for not needing to buy a second bag of dog food! What brand of fish oil do you use?


shoppers drugmart store brand...the ingredients were the same as what the vet pills had and in the same % of all the omegas and such except the shoppers was a much larger bottle and 1/2 the price. The vet approved it was good, though the pills are larger so I only have to give Manna 1 drugstore pill instead of 2 vet pills.


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## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

Do you give 500mg? Do you mix it in with her food or give it to her by hand?


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Our breeder recommends fish oil starting at 6mos, with 1 daily capsule of 1,000 mg. They said brand is unimportant. (This is for giant breed dogs, so dosage will likely be different for large breeds and smaller.) You can put this directly on food and the dogs love it.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Analytical Ada said:


> Do you give 500mg? Do you mix it in with her food or give it to her by hand?


Because of her weight the vet recommended closer to 1000mg of Omega's.
She loves the taste so much she's willing to go through 3 or 4 tricks in a row for one. so we toss it in at the end of a short training session.



packetsmom said:


> Our breeder recommends fish oil starting at 6mos, with 1 daily capsule of 1,000 mg. They said brand is unimportant. (This is for giant breed dogs, so dosage will likely be different for large breeds and smaller.) You can put this directly on food and the dogs love it.


 our vet started us a 5months. Sounds accurate enough


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## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

Any idea why they waited until 5 months? DHA is supposed to aid in neurological development, so it would seem like it would be helpful to give it sooner. 

I found an interesting study done with beagle puppies and fish oil.



> The researchers found that with the exception of sight contrast discrimination, cognitive learning did not significantly differ among the groups. Psychomotor skills did not differ with fish oil treatments. However, retinal function was significantly improved with high levels of fish oil.
> 
> Interestingly, high fish oil puppies had a much higher anti-rabies antibody in their blood 1 and 2 weeks after their vaccination. The researchers concluded that since visual contrast discrimination and retinal activity correlated with blood levels of DHA, fish oil may aid in the neurological development of puppies.


Oh, Target had a bottle of 400 1,000mg capsules on sale for $13!


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Analytical Ada said:


> Any idea why they waited until 5 months? DHA is supposed to aid in neurological development, so it would seem like it would be helpful to give it sooner.
> 
> I found an interesting study done with beagle puppies and fish oil.
> 
> ...


she recommended the omega's / fish oil at 5 months, not sure why is wasn't recommended earlier but we were recommended it as well as a low dosage of glucosamine.

The omegas are for dry skin issues and they made a huge difference in coat as well, glucosamine is for growing joints and all that large breed stuff.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I'm not sure why they recommend waiting. I will try to find out next time I talk with them. 

Their guidelines for their giant breed pups recommend starting with an all-stages dog food (they recommend Canidae in particular) and supplementing with vitamin C and glucosamine from 8 weeks on. Then, at 6 months, they recommend adding in fish oil and probiotics as well as increasing the glucosamine with weight. (I'd have to check if they recommend increasing the vitamin C with weight.)

I buy my glucosamine/chondrotin (sp) powder from a horse supplier and it comes in a nice 2lb tub. Everything else I can get from places like Costco or GNC.


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