# is it okay to lock dogs outside as "punishment"?



## loversfire (Jul 30, 2014)

I have two dogs, both two-month old males, that I have recently brought home. Toffee came home 4 days earlier while Loki have just arrived yesterday. Since then Toffee has become aggressive. He would chase after Loki and bite him (I know it's not a playful bite because Loki would always cry in pain) I have tried saying "no" and "stop" in a firm, loud voice and pull Toffee apart from him many times but he would still growl and bark and chase after him. It's come to the point that Loki would just hide under the cabinet or retreat in a corner most of the time. 

Earlier I heard them "fighting" (Loki never fights back, he would just hide or cry) Toffee was on top biting Loki's belly so I pulled him apart, picked up Loki and locked Toffee out and left him there for a couple of minutes. Was it wrong to do that to him? I really don't know what else to do. Please help me.


----------



## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

All they'll learn is that if they act aggressive they'll get to go outside! AWESOME!! I'll do it again, with even more intensity!


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

A "time out" can be fine for over-excited or a bit too rough behaviour. Maybe 1 minute or so. An indoor area is usually preferred for the safety factor but a short break outside could be fine. At that age though, the dog shouldn't be out of your sight outdoors or indoors (excepting a crate or a pen) for more than a few seconds anyways so the outside/inside difference may not be much.

However, I think you have a lot more to potentially worry about and a lot bigger training issues on your hands if you have 2 puppies of the same sex of the same age. Search "Littermate syndrome" and also just look into the needs of giving each dog his space and training separately in general which can be true even for adult dogs that are not of the same age.


----------



## loversfire (Jul 30, 2014)

I know I still have a lot to learn as a trainer and I am geniuinely trying to learn all I can. I would appreciate a less snarky reply. Thanks for taking the time to answer though


----------



## loversfire (Jul 30, 2014)

Thank you, shell!! I would research that right away.


----------



## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

What breeds are the puppies? Sometimes two males do not get along although usually it is when they get older but the breed sometimes makes a difference.


----------



## loversfire (Jul 30, 2014)

One is a mix breed of chow chow and mini pinscher, the other is also a mix of chow chow and belgian shepherd. The aggressive one is the one with the mini pinscher blood...


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

it's how you do it..... as long as you realize you have reached your limit and need a break from the current situation,, Think it is fine to stop what is going on and separate the dogs to safe areas for the dogs benefit.... doing it in a calm manner will help you get the dogs doing it with you on voice level off lead and hands free each and every time in the future... If you go in guns blazing with negative emotions they dogs will avoid you and avoid the places you need them to go to have to chase them down with a lead and collar fighting the whole way... ... 

I don't mind multiple puppies, and growing stages, they do dog things to each other.. it's natural.. you have to teach them how to handle what is natural to them, and not punish them for it ,, teach them a way out of the situation that doesn't involve escalation, and putting their mouths on each other.. Spending time with each individual pup to teach skills, focus on you, and look to you for directions. If anything will get you through growing stages of different temperaments is having skills on them as individuals to work with..  You rejoice the strong ones, and teach them calm and patience rules and boundaries about the other dogs, and you help the weaker ones feel more confident that the other dog will not dominate their life to worry about every move or step they make in the house hold.


----------



## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

I'm a first time dog owner too, but we are a two dog household. My boyfriend's mother (her house), has an Aussie named Koko. Koko is big and she can get riled up and very rough. Cosmo is a little sheltie, and at half the weight of Koko, along with having a fairly severe hip issue, has let out pretty serious cries before. Koko isn't aggressive, but she can push it too far. 

A few things that I've found help:
- Get Toffee TIRED. Since he's young, take it easy, but get him tired physically and mentally, play games with him and teach him commands, away from Loki of course. Play tug, or fetch in the house. When Koko is physically and mentally exhausting, play sessions are more at Cosmo's pace, and she doesn't get riled up at all. If Toffee is tired, it may help to keep him from getting too aggressive. 
- Build Loki's confidence up! Teach him tricks, play loads of fun games with him. Cosmo confidence around Koko grew quite a bit after he learned tricks, and such. Now he'll only shy away if he's feeling particularly sore.
- Time outs do help too! If Koko gets too rough, we do use time outs. Typically we just use the bathroom, lights off, and let it her calm down for 5 minutes (with a puppy it probably only needs to be a minute or two at most). Having to be alone and away from everyone, lets her know that being a jerk doesn't get her very far. 
- I think the biggest one though, was giving Cosmo a place to go when he felt uncomfortable. His place was his crate and the basement where my bf and I have our room and space. Whenever he felt uncomfortable, he had the option to back away and go some place that was off limits for Koko. I don't know how feasible that is for you, but have places that Loki can go to get away from Toffee, a room, a crate, something. A safe place, where he can just relax.
-And lastly, if you can, try and have the dogs together in places or at times that they can't really focus on one another. For example, going to a pet store, a car ride, a short walk, anything of that sort. Make it so when Toffee is hanging out with Loki, there are not only enough things going on to keep him focused on Loki, but also that is the best time of the day! 


Anyway thats my .02 cents, and some things that have worked for us. Good luck


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Look up "littermate syndrome". Then return one of them. 

They are little babies - not aggressive adult dogs. And putting one outside is not an appropriate punishment for a baby dog (or a particularly effective one with adult dogs). 

You will be so so much better off if you return one of them now, while they are still small and cute. Even people who raise puppies to be guide dogs (people who are very experienced with puppies) were not able to effectively raise two puppies at the same time.

If you are committed to making it work, they should be separate most of the time anyway. They will need to be fed separately, trained separately, taken to puppy classes separately, played with separately, and taken outside separately. As you are already seeing, it's very common for one puppy to become pushy and overbearing, and for the other to become withdrawn.


----------



## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

They're not going to understand why they're being put outside. You're just exposing them to danger being unsupervised and giving them they chance to out and play. 

and two pups this close in age can be a bad idea


----------



## Foxes&Hounds (Jun 7, 2014)

Aren't chows also notorious for same sex aggression? None of the chows i've met have been particularly dog friendly.
I also highly doubt the dogs used by the obviously unconcerned breeders of these random crosses would be of upstanding temperament anyways


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxes&Hounds said:


> Aren't chows also notorious for same sex aggression? None of the chows i've met have been particularly dog friendly.
> I also highly doubt the dogs used by the obviously unconcerned breeders of these random crosses would be of upstanding temperament anyways


not sure, there were two adult males boarded together in my wing,, Like 30 years ago and I will never forget them, , their size and with so much fur they seemed massive. First time I had ever met a chow in person.. They got along fine with each other, breath taking pair,, Never barked or growled at me. really really hard focused of what you were doing the full visual of them was impressive very aloof .. Give me hard time about going out the dog door so I could do my job.. I had to go on to other kennels and they would go outside... to run back to shut them out lol ... really smart and alert, they beat me back in so I had to wait :again" lol ... I thought they were really cool dogs..


----------

