# How do you treat mange?



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

By you, I mean YOU, not in general. I know a lot of ways, but I'm wondering what has worked for you the best?

I think Frag has mange. It's either mange (demodex, not scabies) or allergies, but he's starting to lose a lot of fur around his eyes, ears, and head in general. He's also itching a lot, but allergies have been a never-ending battle around here, so it's hard to tell. 

Right now we're trying out vitamin C to boost his immune system. I can't put him on a better food or give him more oils, so I don't know what else to try. This has been going on for months now, and generally mange would have cleared up, but I'm thinking maybe his allergies are dropping his immune system, causing the mange to continue?

We're taking him into the vet after the new year for an allergy panel and we'll do a scrape then just to make sure. Doesn't really matter, there's nothing the vet can prescribe that I can't get that should work, kwim?

Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated. He's gotten worse with itching his face and paws, and now the poor pup is cramming his face into the couch cushins to itch.


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## Horseshoe (Nov 10, 2010)

What food is he on? We treated our with sulfa-lime dip 6 times 1x every 5 days. With shepherds as well as BC's they can't have ivermectin which is what they normally treat sarcoptic mange. 

I have a friend with a GDS and every year he comes down with this weird skin thing (bald spots with drk center) I thought it was ringworm but it wasn't. He's had test after test after test with no results, he's also been in every kind of med known to dog kind with again no results. It doesn't itch at all so its a mystery.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

He is on TOTW Pacific Stream right now. He was on it because his allergies were doing well on it, but now they've taken a turn for the worst. Most shepherds are not intolerant of ivermectin, though he has never had it and I'm not treating him with ivermectin at those doses (it is used to treat demodex too). The herding group is all succeptible to the mutant gene causing the intolerance though. 

Do you have any sort of links to information about a sulfa-lime dip? We used a similar dip at work on ringworm dogs.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ringworm is a fungus and mange is caused by a skin burrowing mite... so the dip that kills a fungus. May not work on mites. Of course the issue with demodetic mange is that the mites are their on the dog and they live in symbiosis until there is an dog immune malfunction... and then they get out of control and cause deomdetic mange. Sarcoptic mange is caused by a different mite and it treated differently than demodetic mange. 

Heartguard is Ivermectin and both my shepherds get it with no issue. 

It sounds like Frag needs a vet visit.

dogs and cats manufacture Vitamin C in their liver. Supplementation typically is not needed and does more to part you from your money than it does to help the dog. 

(and yes, I know this is discussed and is controversial)


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> Ringworm is a fungus and mange is caused by a skin burrowing mite... so the dip that kills a fungus. May not work on mites. Of course the issue with demodetic mange is that the mites are their on the dog and they live in symbiosis until there is an dog immune malfunction... and then they get out of control and cause deomdetic mange. Sarcoptic mange is caused by a different mite and it treated differently than demodetic mange.
> 
> Heartguard is Ivermectin and both my shepherds get it with no issue.
> 
> ...


If you read my original post, you will see that Frag is seeing the vet after the new year for an allergy panel and scrape. I've seen dozens of cases of mange though, and this looks no different. Getting the confirmation from the vet will only confirm it though. There aren't any prescription medications that treat demodex. While Frag probably is tolerant of ivermectin, I am not giving it to him in high doses to try to treat mange. 

I just read on a GSD forum that many of their dogs with puppy mange recovered well after a vitamin C increase, so I figured I would try that.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Shug had Demodex as a puppy, and, according to her old vet records, she had Mitaban dips every 2 weeks for a few months. Hope Frag feels better soon! I also knew another dog who was losing fur around his eyes and nose, and itching, and it turned out to be Lupus . So if the scrapes are negative for mites, have the vet try to find out if it's something like that.

ETA: Just looked up Mitaban. . .it's expensive! About $30-$35 per treatment, possibly needing to be doubled for a large dog, and 3-6 treatments are needed. And that's buying it yourself (need a prescription from a vet). Wonder what vets charge?


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

My only point was that you may be dealing with sarcoptic mange and not demodex and that fungal treatments won't treat mites (they MAY but the two are different).. and that dogs make their own Vit. C. 

I went thru something similar years (25?) ago with cats in my cattery and the vit. C thing was big in cats then (it is not so anymore because cats make their own, just like dogs). I don't think it will hurt but you might want to google toxic vit. C levels in dogs to see if there is a dose you need to stay under. Ultimately, grisofulvin did the job as it was a fungal issue.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> My only point was that you may be dealing with sarcoptic mange and not demodex and that fungal treatments won't treat mites (they MAY but the two are different).. and that dogs make their own Vit. C.
> 
> I went thru something similar years (25?) ago with cats in my cattery and the vit. C thing was big in cats then (it is not so anymore because cats make their own, just like dogs). I don't think it will hurt but you might want to google toxic vit. C levels in dogs to see if there is a dose you need to stay under. Ultimately, grisofulvin did the job as it was a fungal issue.


I did look into toxic levels and what to stay under/dosing options. I'm staying under what most do as a precaution for now anyway. 

I am about 99% certain that he does not have Sarcoptic mange. I've dealt with that on dogs and this looks nothing like it, and we haven't been effected yet (and this has been going on for more than a month). But I am just trying holistic methods until confirmed at the vet so that I'm not treating something that doesn't exist. If this is allergies though, they're BAD.

Can a betadine bath hurt a dog with no skin issues, or help a dog with mange? I have special shampoo from my foster that had ringworm that I could use if it would help.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Well, betadine is an antiseptic. IF it is allergies, you want to dry things. Betadine will do that but you must dry the dog (with a dryer) after any bath. 

The real thing here tho is you need that skin scrape and be sure it is Demodex or allergies. Each is treated differently and different medications. Allergies are typically calmed with a course of prednisone (tapering dose) but the same medication used for demodex will make it worse (the prednisone shuts down immune response). the issue with skin allergies is that once the dog is sensitized the allergy tends to return to the same area. 

Atka (my GSD) has hot spots in September. I was on top of it this year with benedryl (not very useful in dogs... but it is a first line thing you can do.. and you give a LOT and it takes a few days to become effective). I was on top of it with neo predef powder. I was on top of it with betadine.. and I still ended up using prednisone and clipping her head. Same spot as the year before... but not as bad because I was all over it. 

If it had been demodex, the same treatment would have made it worse.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Well I'm definitely going to get the skin scrape when we do the allergy panel, and I won't be treating either with medications that would effect one another until I find out for sure. The allergies may not need medicating at all; it may be a protien source or something, but we'll see. Thank you for the tips about all this though. I was basically just looking for over the counter type holistic things to treat mange though, like vitamin C, some sort of vinegar spray I've heard of for something, etc. Won't be whipping out the pred or benedry until I know for sure.


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## yappypappymom (Oct 22, 2009)

I have only dealt w/mange once before, &, I was just a kid at the time, so, I suppose that technically my parents "dealt" with it (my brother & I did have to do the treatments though). We lived in GA back then, &, our 2 outside dogs started getting bare patches. My mom brought home this FOUL-smelling yellow stuff in a blue bottle called Happy Jack. I remember that name specifically. Stuff was disgusting, but, it did work. Their hair grew back. I have no idea what kind of mange it was(again...I was just a kid)...if Frag is having issues & such around his eyes though, I would not want to use this product near his eyes, unless they have significantly changed their forumula since like Elana mentioned was around 25 yrs ago. or so. 
Hope to hear some clear results form the vet though in his case. Sheps are narcissistic, &, they just KNOW how good-looking they are, I am sure that Frag can't wait to be back in the "gorgeous young man pool" again!


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

Frontline says it helps with the control of sarcopic mange. The package says to use once a week for the control of demodex mange. IDK if it really works


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Weekly benzoyl peroxide shampoos. Not only is it a drying agent and antiseptic, because of its foaming action it also effectively flushes the hair follicles where the mites are overabundant. In most of the cases we see, this does the trick. If there is no improvement in 2 weeks, then we go for Amitraz dips.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

My vet no longer uses mitaban dips for demodex. Instead he recommends advantage multi (applied monthly, just like for fleas and hw), stress assessment and a good quality diet. Cracker had demodex flare up at six months of age, she was itchy like crazy and was getting bald spots on her ears and muzzle. It started to go away with the advantage within three weeks.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Hm. That's interesting. I'll have to look into advantage multi. Is that a topical? Safe for cats?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Yes it's a spot on topical. Not sure if you can get it under the same name in the US. It is available for cats too, but I think it is either a different formulation or is dosed differently for cats. It's made by Bayer and is a topical parasiticide: good for flea, whips, hookworm, roundworm, heartworm, ear mites, sarcoptes and demodex. The active ingredients are imidacloprid and moxidectin.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Woah, it's a topical that is a prevention against HW too? Why have I never heard of this? 

By cat safe, I meant is the dog formula going to kill my cat if she is in contact with him? I know some topical flea/tick stuff is toxic to cats, but I don't know how that works, really.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It's a prescription med. There is a formulation difference between the cat and dog products (dog product is 4:1 imidacloprid:moxidectin, cat product is 10:1), but the basic ingredients are the same. It has the usual warnings about not allowing pets to lick each other until the application site is dry, but other than there are no warnings about toxicity to other pets (Advantix does have stronger warnings).

Revolution is another spot-on wormer/flea med/heartworm preventative. It says it treats sarcoptic mange but I don't if it does anything against demodex.


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## Conard10 (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't think anyone mentioned Goodwinol. At 8 months old our pup had demodectic mange and that's what our vet gave us. It's an ointment that you apply for 2 weeks to the affected areas. We also gave our pup an immune booster and added yogurt to her kibble. The mange cleared up in about 3 weeks. 

I will say that the ointment looks just like peanut butter so applying it to the affected areas (which was around her face/head) was very interesting!!! Definitely a 2 person job!


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## Horseshoe (Nov 10, 2010)

I just know what worked for us and our dogs, Guiness had sarcoptic mange really bad and it spread to our other dogs. Because they can't have invermectin we were told to use sulfa-lime dip. I know it was not a fungus as we had a scraping done. It started clearing up after the 2nd dip and by the 4th dip he wasn't scratching anymore. The other dogs started scratching less after 2nd dip. Now everybody looks great and no scratching. Lucky for me I have friends that own a dog grooming place because that dip smells so bad!!

I've been told the topical products don't work as well as the dip...plus as our vet said you have to use more than they prescribe for the ticks and I'm not big into using Moxidectin...I had a horse it almost killed. Then after they had to many animals getting sick and dying, they changed the label and the dosage...pretty slick, this was years ago when quest first came out but working as a tech at a top equine medical center and seeing some of the results plus my own horse, I wouldn't use it ever.

My gfriends GSD has had this weird skin thing for a couple years on and off right now its on and has been for a while. She has tried everything under the sun but they can't figure it out. The good thing is it doesn't seem to make him itch, he just has these strange bald spots some with dark centers and others not and different sizes. She is a groomer by profession and is very frustrated.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> If you read my original post, you will see that Frag is seeing the vet after the new year for an allergy panel and scrape. I've seen dozens of cases of mange though, and this looks no different. Getting the confirmation from the vet will only confirm it though. There aren't any prescription medications that treat demodex. While Frag probably is tolerant of ivermectin, I am not giving it to him in high doses to try to treat mange.
> 
> I just read on a GSD forum that many of their dogs with puppy mange recovered well after a vitamin C increase, so I figured I would try that.


Generally, the dogs who can't tolerate ivermectin have the MDR-1 defect. Usually that is collie type breeds - collies, aussies, mini aussies, shelties, BCs, beardies - usually breeds with white trim. Also long haired whippets (indicating infusion of Sheltie?) I've not heard of it being an issue in GSDs, but I haven't really looked into that. So, if it is a concern, you can have a DNA test which tells you if your dog is normal/normal, normal/mutant or mutant/mutant. N/M or M/M should avoid ivermectin and a variety of other drugs. If I had a dog with demodex, I would be working on strengthening his immune system, as all dogs have the mite, but the dogs who develop the mange have either had a recent challenge to their immune system or have a weak system. Sandy


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> Generally, the dogs who can't tolerate ivermectin have the MDR-1 defect. Usually that is collie type breeds - collies, aussies, mini aussies, shelties, BCs, beardies - usually breeds with white trim. Also long haired whippets (indicating infusion of Sheltie?) I've not heard of it being an issue in GSDs, but I haven't really looked into that. So, if it is a concern, you can have a DNA test which tells you if your dog is normal/normal, normal/mutant or mutant/mutant. N/M or M/M should avoid ivermectin and a variety of other drugs. If I had a dog with demodex, I would be working on strengthening his immune system, as all dogs have the mite, but the dogs who develop the mange have either had a recent challenge to their immune system or have a weak system. Sandy


All herding breeds can be effected, and it is showing up much more in GSDs, believe me, I know all about it. It was just white GSDs for a long time, but now it is cropping up more and more in black/tans as well.


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## ptoot (Jun 28, 2009)

Absolutely a wonderfully informative thread! I have learnt much from it  Any verdicts/updates yet?? Hoping all is going well!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Also long haired whippets (indicating infusion of Sheltie?)


Random note, longhaired whippets are a simple recessive


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

ptoot said:


> Absolutely a wonderfully informative thread! I have learnt much from it  Any verdicts/updates yet?? Hoping all is going well!


Hair loss is getting worse and he's starting to bleed in a small spot near his eye.  We've been talking with the vet and trying to schedule all of the stuff we need done (blood draw, allergy consult, skin scrape) and she keeps going back and forth giving us new ideas and others have too so we've been trying to do a lot of research to make sure I know what to bring up and get accomplished before we take him in. Vet doesn't want us to waste our money, but he needs a lot done at this point. Calling the vet tomorrow finally to schedule everything we got squared away today.


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## BrittanieJo (Sep 23, 2010)

When Squirt (our old lab) had cheyletiella mite (a mild form of mange) we just did 4 to 5 baths w/ selenium sulfide and put yogurt in her food for a month or so and that cleared her right up. We actually kept her on the yogurt for the rest of her life once or twice a week because she had a weird yeast thing happening with her skin. She looooooved yogurt lol.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Random note, longhaired whippets are a simple recessive


Debatable, since the MDR-1 defect isn't present in Whippets, but is present in Shelties (and is also present in silken windhounds/longhair shelties.



Xeph said:


> Random note, longhaired whippets are a simple recessive


That's been debated for quite a while, hasn't it? The MDR-1 defect has never been shown to be present in whippets (or sighthounds in general) but is present in Shelties and also Silken Windhounds/longhaired whippets.


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