# As a groomer what vaccinations do you require?



## SMoore

I was just wondering what smaller grooming shops require as far as vaccinations go. I know at Petco if they are getting a full service groom or bath they have to be up to date on shots.

We do not require proof of vaccinations for walk in nail trims. I started this post because i've been talking to the managers at the store for awhile. I know its a corporate thing but I think that's a little risky.

It seems that a dog who is going to bite is most likely going to bite on the nail trim. If I personally sense that a dog is growling when im around their feet or picking up the paw I will usually muzzle the dog for my own safety unless it's a smaller dog and using the grooming loop works well enough. I guess im pretty lucky i've very rarely had a dog try to bite during nails but it seems that some groomers do only have problems with nails.

I just don't know why they wouldnt require vaccinations for a nail trim when it seems that's one of the procedures dogs seem to like least.


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## myminpins

Do you require a certificate of good health from a vet instead? I mean, I don't vaccinate my dogs after a year old so mine would not be considered by most to be up to date but they would be by me.

Do you think they SHOULD be UTD on vaccinations to protect the groomer? Can you spread dog illness dog to dog easily as a groomer who may come into contact with an ill dog? Are any of the dog illnesses a threat to a human other than rabies?


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## TeddieXRuxpin

Our shop requires rabies for all clients. We take down the information even if it's a walk in.


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## GroovyGroomer777

Just rabies, and that can be waived if you have a reason from your vet (example - dog is 19 years old, or allergic or something)

SM, you are absolutely right about your concern.
You should be getting rabies info for nail trims, without a doubt. This is an extreme risk you are taking.

Couple years ago, I worked at a large Petsomething. The bather took a dog in for a nail trim. Dog was ok, and then when the bather picked him up to take him off the table- the dog bit him, breaking the skin. 

The bather was stunned, handed the dog back to the owner. We all went to attend to the bite and then I remembered....

I raced out to the parking lot, but the owners and dog were gone.

The bather had to go to the hospital and get a number of VERY PAINFULL rabies shots.


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## Graco22

I guess I am odd man out here, as I don't require any vaccines, and won't until I am required by law to do so. I recommend that client's pups are vaccinated with their series of puppy shots, etc. for their own protection. I am however, strongly against the overvaccination that the general public does, most of the time per their vet's instructions. There are many vets that are STILL going on a yearly protocol, when even the AVMA has adopted the 3 year protocol. I do not believe that our pets need to be bombarded with vaccines thru their lives, but that is a whole nother issue.  I don't think a rabies vaccine is necessary every year for a pet to be protected, and I won't force that upon my clients either. I have gotten MANY clients that in the past went to the box stores until the vaccination protocols got too much for them to take. And the kennel cough vaccine is a joke..it "protects" against a very minor amount of the strains, of which there are hundreds. My own dogs go to the salon with me every day, and I don't vaccinate after their puppy shots and yearly booster. A titer is all that is necessary after that...and I don't even think that is a necessity...do we as humans get yearly titers to make sure we are still safe from Polio, TB, MMR, etc? No...we are considered vaccinated after childhood vaccines...I'm sure this opened up a can of worms, but its something I feel strongly about, thought just my opinion.


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## myminpins

Completely and totally agree with you re: the vaccination issue, Graco.


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## poodleholic

So do I, Graco.


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## GroovyGroomer777

While I agree with Graco about over vaccinating, I think the rabies shot is required more for the groomer's safety than the dog.

Its the law if you get bitten by a dog who is not up to date, you have to have the shots yourself. Why put yourself at risk ?


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## Graco22

GroovyGroomer777 said:


> While I agree with Graco about over vaccinating, I think the rabies shot is required more for the groomer's safety than the dog.
> 
> Its the law if you get bitten by a dog who is not up to date, you have to have the shots yourself. Why put yourself at risk ?



I don't believe it is law, but that the dog must be quarantined for 10 days to watch for symptoms..When I worked at the vet clinic, there was always at least one dog on watch there. The law cannot force me to be vaccinated for rabies if I am to be bitten. They can advise it, etc...but trust me, they aren't going to make me do it. I don't feel I am at risk. I have never known of a pet that didn't have at LEAST one rabies shot in its life, and I just believe the titers..that dog is vaccinated and DOES NOT need another vaccine every year for the rest of its life. I am in no way, shape, or form worried that I will contract rabies from a dog. Of course there is always a miniscule chance, but thats a chance I will take to not force hundreds of pets to be continually bombarded with unnecessary vaccines. 

Lets face it...rabies isn't nearly the threat that it used to be...not even close..quite honestly, IMO, its just a good reason for vets to make money, and the counties and states to keep track of what dogs you have,(and make their money on the tag fees,)so they can get you on city licenses also. This could go off on a completely different subject... So I'll stop there.


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## GroovyGroomer777

Thank you for the correction. I must have been misinformed about it being the law. I wonder why then anyone would go through all those shots?


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## Graco22

GroovyGroomer777 said:


> Thank you for the correction. I must have been misinformed about it being the law. I wonder why then anyone would go through all those shots?


I don't know for 100% sure that its _not_ the law, but I don't believe it is. Of course, it could vary by state also. I just don't see how any law that requires a person to be given a vaccine will work..they can't force you, it invades human rights...and you could always say "for religious reasons, I refuse.", etc. 

I suppose that the fear of contracting rabies could push some people to have the shots, and if they dog is a stray, that bites and runs off, and cannot be found for rabies observation, that I can see wanting the shot...Rabies onset is quick in dogs, hence the 10 observation periods..If it hasn't happened in 10 days, the dog does not have rabies. This does interest me and I am going to try to do some law searching for my state, and try to find out the actual law on this matter.


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## myminpins

The reason people would still go through the shots is rabies is still fatal to humans in 99.9% of the cases.


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## Love's_Sophie

We require, at minimum Rabies, for grooming; for boarding and day care they must have had Parvo, Distemper, and a Bordatella (along with Rabies). 

I have actually had my own Rabies series done (after a dog bit my throat\face last year) so...Lol! I had never thought about getting the rabies series done, until the owner of the dog claimed that the dog hadn't had it's shots in over 7 years...AFTER claiming when setting up the appointment that he was current. The doctor convinced me to get the shots done right away, even if nothing came of the dog's quarentine period; better safe than sorry... The shots aren't administered in the stomach anymore (except in small children), so it's not nearly as painful as it once was. 

In a way, I wish that all groomers would get the rabies series done on themselves; I know it's required for veterinarians, and many vet techs do it, because you just never know; and to be honest, an owner can say the dog is vaccinated, and even show some papers, but these are fairly easy to 'create' yourself if you were that desparate...I'd rather be safe than sorry...


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## Corrinne

I'm working out of an animal shelter, and require clients are up to date on all vaccines. The clients are kept completely seperate from any shelter animals, but require it just to be safe. I'd feel terrible if any of them contracted anything. It's amazing how quickly things can spread.


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## macgyver

Graco22 said:


> I am however, strongly against the overvaccination that the general public does, most of the time per their vet's instructions. ... I do not believe that our pets need to be bombarded with vaccines thru their lives, but that is a whole nother issue.  I don't think a rabies vaccine is necessary every year for a pet to be protected, and I won't force that upon my clients either. .....A titer is all that is necessary after that...and I don't even think that is a necessity...do we as humans get yearly titers to make sure we are still safe from Polio, TB, MMR, etc? No...we are considered vaccinated after childhood vaccines...I'm sure this opened up a can of worms, but its something I feel strongly about, thought just my opinion.


Here's your can of worms...

Gracco, thanks for all the help you gave me about grooming, but I have to say that I don't agree with you here. I work in the medical field and I think you are making some gross generalizations that may lead people to some dangerous practices. While it is true that some vaccination impart lifelong immunity, many others may not. Let me use your example, concerning Polio, TB, and MMR. TB vaccines are no longer given in most countries ( and never were in the US), but polio does seem to give immunity for many years for the majority of people who complete the series, as does MMR. However, MMR vaccines given before 1970 did not give lifelong immunity to a lot of people. This resulted in some serious outbreaks in colleges in the 70's. Today, anyone applying for a job in a medical facility who was vaccinated for MMR in the 60's does indeed need to get a titer done. Other vaccines such as influenza, tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis provide only temporary immunity and do require re-vaccination. Small Pox would require re-vaccination as well if it wasn't for the fact that the virus no longer exists in the wild on this planet thanks to a very successful world wide vaccination program.

I am not an animal expert, but in humans, the rabies vaccine does not afford lifelong immunity. In our facility we periodically check titers on our patients who are veterinarians and re-vaccinate them as needed. Rabies is unlike almost any other disease humans will encounter. Asymptomatic animals can infect other animals ( ie. us humans), and infection with rabies with extremely rare exceptions is universally fatal. I think its a small price to pay to insist that your clients have their animals up to date with their rabies vaccines. Most other animal vaccines protect against illnesses that don't easily pass from a dog to a human and are therefor of little concern to groomers, although diseases like distemper could present a risk to other animals in the facility if kept in close quarters with an infected animal.

Just as a side note, although I suspect it may stir up a hornets nest, as a medical professional I have done a great deal of research on the subject of vaccinations. Despite numerous studies, there is no evidence to support the fears that the current human vaccine schedule is harmful in any way to people young or old. I suspect, although again I am no expert on animals, that the same can probably be said for animal vaccine schedules as well. If you are aware of any studies to the contrary I would be interested in that information although I would be surprised if any exist.

Also, in regards to the comment that rabies is not as common as it used to be, this is not true. Among wild animals the rate of rabies infection waxes and wanes but there has been no overall downward trend. In fact there is a rabies epidemic underway in the Northeast since the 1970's that is gradually migrating westward. We had a rabies infected racoon ( the animal was euthanized and lab tests proved it had rabies) on our property a year ago. Had our dog been out at the time and not vaccinated she and the whole family could have been at risk. Rabies is as much a danger today as it was 100 years ago. Don't let the success of our vaccination program lull you into a false sense of security. In the US there are only about 3 human rabies cases per year, but in other parts of the world like India where dogs are not routinely vaccinated, many thousands of people die annually from rabies. You don't get a second chance with this disease. Complacency can kill.


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## Graco22

macgyver said:


> Here's your can of worms...
> 
> Gracco, thanks for all the help you gave me about grooming, but I have to say that I don't agree with you here. I work in the medical field and I think you are making some gross generalizations that may lead people to some dangerous practices. While it is true that some vaccination impart lifelong immunity, many others may not. Let me use your example, concerning Polio, TB, and MMR. TB vaccines are no longer given in most countries ( and never were in the US), but polio does seem to give immunity for many years for the majority of people who complete the series, as does MMR. However, MMR vaccines given before 1970 did not give lifelong immunity to a lot of people. This resulted in some serious outbreaks in colleges in the 70's. Today, anyone applying for a job in a medical facility who was vaccinated for MMR in the 60's does indeed need to get a titer done. Other vaccines such as influenza, tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis provide only temporary immunity and do require re-vaccination. Small Pox would require re-vaccination as well if it wasn't for the fact that the virus no longer exists in the wild on this planet thanks to a very successful world wide vaccination program.
> 
> I am not an animal expert, but in humans, the rabies vaccine does not afford lifelong immunity. In our facility we periodically check titers on our patients who are veterinarians and re-vaccinate them as needed. Rabies is unlike almost any other disease humans will encounter. Asymptomatic animals can infect other animals ( ie. us humans), and infection with rabies with extremely rare exceptions is universally fatal. I think its a small price to pay to insist that your clients have their animals up to date with their rabies vaccines. Most other animal vaccines protect against illnesses that don't easily pass from a dog to a human and are therefor of little concern to groomers, although diseases like distemper could present a risk to other animals in the facility if kept in close quarters with an infected animal.
> 
> Just as a side note, although I suspect it may stir up a hornets nest, as a medical professional I have done a great deal of research on the subject of vaccinations. Despite numerous studies, there is no evidence to support the fears that the current human vaccine schedule is harmful in any way to people young or old. I suspect, although again I am no expert on animals, that the same can probably be said for animal vaccine schedules as well. If you are aware of any studies to the contrary I would be interested in that information although I would be surprised if any exist.
> 
> Also, in regards to the comment that rabies is not as common as it used to be, this is not true. Among wild animals the rate of rabies infection waxes and wanes but there has been no overall downward trend. In fact there is a rabies epidemic underway in the Northeast since the 1970's that is gradually migrating westward. We had a rabies infected racoon ( the animal was euthanized and lab tests proved it had rabies) on our property a year ago. Had our dog been out at the time and not vaccinated she and the whole family could have been at risk. Rabies is as much a danger today as it was 100 years ago. Don't let the success of our vaccination program lull you into a false sense of security. In the US there are only about 3 human rabies cases per year, but in other parts of the world like India where dogs are not routinely vaccinated, many thousands of people die annually from rabies. You don't get a second chance with this disease. Complacency can kill.


I appreciate your information, coming from a medical field. I have no medical schooling, so it is great to hear from someone who does. I have read TONS about vaccinating, and have discussed it with several vets over the years as well. I did not mean to imply that we should not be vaccinating our pets at all..But I do believe we are over vaccinating, which can do damage to immune sytems, and the overall health of our pets. I vaccinate my own pets, every 3 years, until they are deemed seniors. Then I titer and don't vaccinate. I can see that I could be taking a chance, albeit very slim, that I could contract rabies from a pet I groom if it were to bite me. Vaccinations are something that each pet owner needs to study, and discuss with their veterinarian what is best for that particular pet. I don't believe there is a one size fits all in this. Here is a link that, while from a few years ago, has alot of interesting info in it. There were many more, just do a google search for "over vaccination in pets" and you will get plenty of sites on both sides of the fence. 

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/dailynews/2003/May/09/IsYourPet9.htm


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## macgyver

Gracco I understand your concern and am glad you clarified your position. There is a good deal of misunderstanding about vaccines among the public due in no small part to a vocal group of misguided individuals who are against vaccinations. Just be careful what you read on the internet though.There are a lot of people out there who have polluted the internet with a great deal of misinformation on this subject. Its gotten so bad that for every web site carrying accurate vaccine information, there are 10 that carry grossly inaccurate and patently false information.

I need to correct one thing. While all treatments including vaccinations have some risk of side effects,The idea that "over vaccination" whatever that means, can somehow weaken your immune system is not scientifically factual. While vaccines do have the potential for adverse effects in a small percentage of recipients, a weakened immune system is not one of the known side effects. 

While physicians rarely profit from vaccinations ( managed care companies often pay them less for vaccines than it costs to buy them), it may be possible that there is a financial incentive for some veterinarians to vaccinate pets more than required. I would like to think most vets would not be party to this sort of practice. If dog owners are concerned about the vaccination schedule they need to ask their vets what is really necessary and if you don't feel as though you're getting an honest answer then get a second opinion. I think its important though for people to resist the urge to make up their own schedules since most of us don't have the expertise to do that. Its especially important since these decisions affect not only the pet, but other pets and people who come into contact with that pet.


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