# Puppy and rawhide



## Abbysdad

It has been 16 years since I had a puppy. And it appears I have forgotten and things have somewhat "changed" in the years. What age do you introduce a rawhide bone to a puppy? Abby is a 12 week old Golden/Collie mix. My ex-wife brought over a rawhide bone for her to chew. I do let her chew it with supervision. Should I be doing this? There are sooo many natural chew toys out there I'm not sure which one would be right. 
Pig ears, hoves, bleached rawhide, smoked bones with little meat left, bleached bones, pressed rawhide. It goes on an on.


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## Boz

I won't give my puppy rawhides. I've heard too many stories about them choking but I'm probably being over-protective. There are plenty of other safe things to chew on like nylabones and kongs. I've also heard they're not good for digestion in a young puppy. You're probably ok if you're carefully supervising your puppy with it and make sure they're from a reputable source.


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## Renoman

I personally don't like giving rawhides at any age. Even with supervision the possibility of choking or blockage is something to think about.

The selection of chews for a puppy (even older dogs) is such that rawhides wouldn't even be on my list.

There's kongs - all shapes and sizes now. Nylabones (not the edible ones) last for a long time and provide great chewing exercise. Antler chews - not as hard as real bones and they don't splinter. Again, they're long lasting and provide chewing exercise. Raw bones - I use the frozen bones from Primal because they have buffalo and venison. 

My all time favorite for puppies - ice cubes. Aside from the entertainment factor, the ice provides great chewing for the puppy and the cold numbs the teething pain.


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## Abbysdad

At her age I'm not going to let her chew pieces off and swallow them. For a reptable place? How do you find out?


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## MegaMuttMom

I happily got my dog a rawhide the day we brought him home. One day, he went at it, and ate almost the whole thing in a span of 20 minutes. It gave him really bad diarrhea and I feel lucky he didn't get a blockage. I have not given him another since. He really chews on his nylabone and his kong. I got him an antler for Christmas. I can't wait to see if he loves it!
My sister-in-law swears by bully sticks but only gives it to her poodle for 10 min at a time. My dog would go through a pigs ear so fast it wouldn't be cost-effective.
My advice: try lots of chews but NOT rawhides, the risk of blockage is too great.


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## Renoman

All rawhide is chemically processed which can cause loose stools, digestive upset, etc. 

Rawhides from outside the USA should be avoided at all costs.

Only slightly better are the rawhides processed in the USA.


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## Shalva

I know to many dogs who have died from blockages due to rawhide, I never feed it. If you need an appropriate chew for the baby you can buy a kong toy fill it with peanut butter or yogurt and freeze it.... much much safer than rawhide. 
We also use beef soup bones that you can get at the grocery and that is also a good chew as well as bully sticks 
good luck 
s


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## Abbysdad

i checked out Primal website. My concern would be the raw bone spoiling and making her sick. i see chicken and turkey necks as a product to feed your dog. I was always told that chicken bones splinter and turkey necks have too many small bones. Antlers sounds like a good treat. i wonder if they do anything to them? If not I can get one from my brother.

Right now I need chew toys for inside the house that will not stain the carpet. Too cold for the pup to stay outside 10*


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## MegaMuttMom

Nylabones are a "fake" bone that make absolutely no mess. Cherokee is a big chewer and has had the same one since last Feb. He finds it when he really needs to chew. The kong also doesn't make a mess if you put in a liver snap or cheese. The peanut butter can get messy but Cherokee is really good at licking up any mess he makes  
The antler I bought just has the "branches" cut off. It doesn't look processed in any way. The are expensive so, if you have access, count yourself lucky.


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## Abbysdad

MegaMuttMom said:


> The antler I bought just has the "branches" cut off. It doesn't look processed in any way. The are expensive so, if you have access, count yourself lucky.


Wow! my brother gets alot of antlers this time of year. He hunts and also is a County mounty. He gets alot of calls from people who hit deer on the highway. If they are a buck he will cut the antlers off. I think I will give him a call.


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## Renoman

The antlers are fine in the house. No staining, smell or anything and they last a long time. It looks like they just might clean them up a bit. I have them in all different sizes. If you get a rack from your brother I would suggest cutting the antlers into size appropriate pieces. 

I just use the Primal bones - maybe someone else can speak to the turkey/chicken necks etc..


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## Abbysdad

well Abby and I went to Petsmart and got the Nylabone Healthy Edibles dog bone. She is chewing on it like it was her last meal. My Brother (the punk) lol. Said no to any of his antlers. He has more than he can ever use. Well, wait a minute. He doesn't do anything with them! They sit in a corner collecting dust! I'll be over there tonight for x-mas cheer. Hum.........


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## ChrissyBz

I won' give my dogs rawhide either, but I just got some antlers from Pet Sage and they were a huge hit. Everybody loves them. I don't know if there would be any difference from those to antlers that are cut off as these are naturally shed. Any deer farms close by where you live? 

www.petsage.com


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## Abbysdad

No Deer farms around me in Indiana. But we do have alot in the wild. I wouldnt think there would be any difference to the natural shed vs cutting off. Once they shed their velvet the antlers are dead. Around here it is difficult to find shed antlers due to private property and the mice and other rodents love them as well. Too bad Petsmart don't have them. We only have 2 pet stores in the town I live in. Our population is over 100,000. You think there would be more. Petsmart is the low end and the other is a feed store thar sells higher quality products. But no antlers.


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## ChrissyBz

Well that sucks for you. They are available all over the internet though. Here's another link.

http://www.healthypetcompany.com/page/886390


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## Abbysdad

thank you!!


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## RonE

Abbysdad said:


> My concern would be the raw bone spoiling and making her sick. . . I was always told that chicken bones splinter and turkey necks have too many small bones.


A raw bone won't have a chance to spoil. Most dogs remove any available meat or marrow very quickly.

Any cooked bone has the potential to splinter. Raw bones - poultry or otherwise - do not.

For dogs that like Nylabones (like mine) they are a good solution. They make several sizes, flavors and "durabilities."


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## Abbysdad

I tell ya, I have been searching the net all day. I have read that boiling a beef bone from the butcher will harden the bone. Nylabones have caused many dogs to die or have surgery due to large pieces getting stuck because they will not disolve quick enough. My Brother won't give me a deer antler due to people spending a ton for them on Ebay. When I was a kid we fed our dog table scraps. The nights we had a roast and she got the bone was like Christmas to her! Damn! what am I suppose to do? Could this be another thing that the internet has blown out of proportions again? Has the internet open a window to the world to bring animal suppliers closer to the consumer and to make a buck spread the "little birdie" that these old time favorites are bad? Or could it be due to the internet that dog lovers are putting their heads together and giving their own info on these products and saying the old needs to be replaced by the new.


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## RonE

I've never heard of a dog being harmed by a Nylabone but, like anything, you have to keep an eye on it.

Boiling a bone hardens it, but makes it more brittle. A powerful dog can turn it into lethal shards.

We did lots of things for our dogs 20-50 years ago (yup, I had a dog 50 years ago) that we would not dream of doing now.


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## Abbysdad

RonE, Thanks for your replys. since my last comment I have still been reading coments on the web. Nylabones still iffy, rawhides big no,no. Now bones from the butcher with marrow been hitting well. You think this is comparible to what you are getting?


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## RonE

I do get raw marrow bones and they are a big hit. 

I'll have to do a search for Nylabone problems, but I'm skeptical. I don't recall anyone ever mentioning it here and I rarely cruise any other dog sites. (Why would I?  )

Edit: I did find a site that talked about the dangers of Nylabones. They also talked about some other stuff that has been dismissed by sources I trust.

I think they may be referring to some of the softer chew toys. I use only the most durable Nylabone (for aggressive chewers) and they last for months. If I notice and sign of serious wear, I dispose of it.

My Plott is the most aggressive chewer I've had. Molly is more of a shredder.


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## ChrissyBz

I give nylabones for in house use and the dogs get whole raw cow feet(from the hoof to the knee) for chewing outside. I have 3 big dogs and 3 small and they all enjoy. Occasionally i give them raw chicken and their main diet is raw beef and oatmeal. We've never had a problem. It really doesn't matter who you "talk" to they'll all have a different opinion. You just need to decide what YOU think is best for YOUR dog. Research and try to pick out what makes sense to you.


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## MegaMuttMom

You must be using a different nylabone than what I have. I have one that is very hard. Cherokee has been full force knawing on it and he's had it almost a year. The ends are worn and rough but he still loves it. There are different durabilities but they should not be able to be broken into pieces.


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## Abbysdad

ChrissyBz said:


> You just need to decide what YOU think is best for YOUR dog. Research and try to pick out what makes sense to you.


I guess I am anal when it comes to feeding my pets. My Ragdoll cat is on Innova Evo. A super good food for cats. It took me alot of research to get to my conclusion. I just want the best for my dog and unfortulantly every dog food manufacturar says they are. I guess the bigger picture is I want to do better than I did with my other close friends. see what I'm saying?


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## ChrissyBz

Abbysdad said:


> I guess the bigger picture is I want to do better than I did with my other close friends. see what I'm saying?


Totally understand. I think that's what everyone else is here for too. (that and bragging rights with photos) LOL After all I feed homecooked. All the foods that I would be interested in giving my animals aren't available to me here. Sooo homecooked it is for me.


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## Renoman

Abbysdad said:


> I tell ya, I have been searching the net all day. I have read that boiling a beef bone from the butcher will harden the bone. Nylabones have caused many dogs to die or have surgery due to large pieces getting stuck because they will not disolve quick enough. My Brother won't give me a deer antler due to people spending a ton for them on Ebay. When I was a kid we fed our dog table scraps. The nights we had a roast and she got the bone was like Christmas to her! Damn! what am I suppose to do? Could this be another thing that the internet has blown out of proportions again? Has the internet open a window to the world to bring animal suppliers closer to the consumer and to make a buck spread the "little birdie" that these old time favorites are bad? Or could it be due to the internet that dog lovers are putting their heads together and giving their own info on these products and saying the old needs to be replaced by the new.


Are you certain that the nylabones mentioned aren't the edible ones. I could see a dog getting a piece of one of those stuck. I think it might be unlikely a dog can bite off a hunk of the hard nylabones. If that happens... my hat off to that dog... the white and cream colored nylabones are very durable. The clear ones are something to stay away from as well - too easy for an intense chewer to bite a piece off.


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## Abbysdad

Well, The one I just bought was the Healthy Edibles roast beef flavor. Gluten free formula. My brain is getting fried!! I think I am putting too much into this. Natural raw bones are sounding better minute by minute. Heard no complants.


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## Renoman

Just to add to your fried brain.... the edible ones can sometimes cause digestive upset or loose stool.... sorry, I thought you should be aware...


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## Bascerballer4

Rawhides are dangerous to puppies when no supervision is around. Make sure you watch closely while the puppy is chewing the rawhide and do not let the pup get any big pieces. As an alternative, use Purina bones or Pedigree bones. These bones work great and pups love them!


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## Renoman

Kongs are a very safe chew alternative. They come in so many sizes and shapes. I've got kongs lying around here I bought 10 years ago and they look brand new... very, very sturdy and great for chewers.


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## poodleholic

I would never give my dogs rawhide, pig ears, cow hooves, etc. They're dangerous, and laden with chemicals. Ugh! 



> i checked out Primal website. My concern would be the raw bone spoiling and making her sick.


Raw bones should only be given under supervision, and then taken away. I've been giving raw bones to dogs for 40+ years, and never has a bone "spoiled" and made my dogs sick. I give knuckle bones and marrow bones. 



> Right now I need chew toys for inside the house that will not stain the carpet. Too cold for the pup to stay outside 10*


The dog is going to drool during the act of chewing, and this in and of itself can cause staining. Contain your dog to an area of the house where the floor can be wiped up. If every surface is carpeted, then get a rug to place over the carpet, and teach your dog to stay on that rug while she has her chew bone. If you have a crate for your dog, then crate her while she has her bone.


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## RonE

Renoman said:


> Kongs are a very safe chew alternative.


Just to further add to the confusion, Esther dismantled a black Kong in a couple of minutes into so many pieces, I couldn't pick them all up. (I had to vacuum them up.) Had I not been watching her, she could have ingested some of the larger pieces, possibly resulting in a blockage that would not show up in x-rays.

I got a full refund from the pet store and bought a few durable Nylabones that she had for months.

My point is not to dis Kong. It's a great product that has brought happy, safe chew times to lots of dogs. But all chew toys need supervision and you need to be aware of your dog's capabilities.


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## Renoman

Well RonE, I have one thing to say..... YIKES!!!  

I've never known any other dog that could destroy a Kong - especially the black ones which are supposed to be the 'strongest'. That's one hell of a set of jaws!

You're absolutely right though - knowing your dog's capabilities and supervision are key.


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## RonE

I got a lot of questions when I took it back for a refund, like, "What the **** kind of dog do you have?" 

But, to their credit, Kong offers a money-back guarantee and the store honored it. It's not exactly a no-questions-asked guarantee, but the questions were more incredulous than hostile. They were actually pretty good natured about it and called all available staff members to the front of the store to see that, yes, it's possible to trash a black Kong.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bragging. There is actually no practical reason for a family pet to have jaws like that and you could spend a day with her without ever suspecting there was a great white shark hidden in that black and brindle exterior.


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## Renoman

Yeah, I bet you got questions! They probably talked about that one for days.  

And to look at Esther she has such a sweet face. I'd never suspect she was capable of being a 'kong killer'.  

GSDs not not exactly sissies when it comes to chewing but none of my dogs have ever come close to doing a kong any harm. Like I said, I've got some here that are 10 y.o. and look brand new. 

Guess ya just never know....


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## Willowy

Wow! I've never seen a Kong even look like it's been chewed on, much less destroyed. Amazing. Toby can chew a hard Nylabone down to a nub within a couple months, but he can't bite off pieces, only tiny little shavings, so it's not dangerous. His favorite shapes are the Galileo and the one that's shaped like a rawhide knot. He DOES NOT get Nylabone Edibles because he bites off huge chunks that he could choke on or get a blockage from. Penny sometimes is allowed to have a Nylabone Edible. Moose doesn't chew recreationally. They do get a chicken quarter once a week for their teeth (raw chicken bones do not splinter, but are excellent for keeping teeth clean), and occasionally they get a raw beef bone, but those are harder to find. The chicken quarters aren't much for recreational chewing---they don't last 5 minutes. It's "crunch, crunch, all gone!". The beef bones do last a good long time. I've never tried antlers---that's interesting.


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## Dieselsmama

Abbysdad said:


> well Abby and I went to Petsmart and got the Nylabone Healthy Edibles dog bone. She is chewing on it like it was her last meal. My Brother (the punk) lol. Said no to any of his antlers. He has more than he can ever use. Well, wait a minute. He doesn't do anything with them! They sit in a corner collecting dust! I'll be over there tonight for x-mas cheer. Hum.........


Just a quick heads up but the nylabone healthy edibles aren't the same as a regular nylabone. Ella had massive blow-outs in the middle of the night from one of these. That said Charlie also had one and it didn't bother him as much, a little loose stool the next day.


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## Anela

Here is the potty program that I assume you wanted (got a message indicating that you did).

The key to potty training is consistency, quality treats used for training purposes only and hard work. This is no time to skimp. If you have questions, please let me know. 

Please forgive the length and what may not pertain to you.

Good luck!
Anela

*Potty training. Don’t expect a “quick fix”. To be successful with this and other training issues, you really need to crate train. Potty training correctly, is a very important issue for you and your dog. Lots of people get frustrated when their dog does not make progress. Commitment, work, consistency, treats and praise and are key to this issue. Potty training problems are one of the major reasons so many dogs wind up at the pound or back at one. Below I have listed 5 key steps to get your dog potty trained. It a simple procedure that has worked for me and lots of others. But first, some words about crate training.

Numerous people have a negative attitude about crate training. They think that the dog will be uncomfortable when crated, or they don’t like the idea because of what they have read, heard, or just think. If you have a negative attitude, you need to make it a positive. 

Crate training a newly introduced pup or even an older dog is one of the most important things you will ever do for you and your new dog. Pups and older dogs love the feeling of being closed in when they are in a strange place, especially if there is an old sheet over the crate, leaving the front open so dog can look out. If the crate has to much room for a pup to move around, put something indestructible inside to cut down on space so pup can curl up and feel secure. Leaving soft music playing when you are away pacifies the dog and helps prevent separation anxiety. Dogs of any age kept confined to the crate won’t get into trouble when you are away or can’t supervise. The more room new dogs have to roam around in like a blocked off kitchen or bathroom, the more trouble they can get in to. 

If you have a pup, the crate should be in your bedroom at night and in a living area during the day to help the bonding process. It is not realistic to expect a pup, used to being around litter mates and mother to like being left alone, especially at night. They get frightened and confused and make all kinds of noise. 

If whining is an issue, with the sheet over the crate, gently tap on the top and firmly say “stop”. This may need to be repeated a few times, but soon dog will associate your command with the crate tapping. When whining stops, give praise and treats.

Newly introduced dogs must earn your trust and their unsupervised freedom from the crate. Lots of people try to do this to quickly. This confuses the dog with to much space to roam around in. To be successful with your dog, initially you simply must supervise every second when dog is out of the crate. Dog should have a leash on when out so you can easily grab it and take the dog out when you need to or to keep it out of trouble. Frozen Kongs stuffed with cheese or peanut butter or other toys that don’t splinter should also be available for dog to chew on. Never leave dog alone with a chew toy, it could get lodged in the mouth or throat. Keep in mind that dog is looking at you and an alpha dog figure for guidance, not a human. It is your duty to provide this. 

When dog is house trained and you can start to trust the way things are going, weaning dog from the crate can start. This also must be done gradually so dog won’t get confused. About 10 minute intervals without a leash over the course of about one month or more is essential, depending on how well dog is doing. When dog is good give tons of praise and perhaps a treat. While dog is out of the crate, give lots of praise for anything good done, like drinking water, laying around, chewing on a toy, etc. Anything dog does that is positive should get recognition, this builds confidence and lets dog know that it is able to please you. 

To get dog used to your absence, leave the house with dog outside of the crate for only a few minutes. Leave the crate door open, return inside and give tons of praise and treats if dog has been good. If dog has gotten into only minor mischief, state your displeasure by firmly stating that dog was bad. Dogs are very visual creatures, only minor scolding and the look of your face should get the point across. Gradually increase time when dog is alone over the course of a month or so depending on how well things go.


**When house training a dog it is very important for you to pick a system and stick with that, rather than switch if things are not going well. Switching will only confuse you and your pup. If you are not having success, you need to back up and start over, only go slower. House training is the first major step dog is going to take in earning your trust, this is simply a must for any indoor dog. If you have an older dog that needs to potty trained, you need to treat dog like a pup.

Here is a simple step by step method for potty training that worked for me. It also has worked for others. 

1. First you need to realize that not all dogs are the same in this category. Some get it within a week or less, others take longer etc. How you might ask do I know so much about potty training?? I rescued a 4 month old Shepard/Hound last year, my fourth dog in 16 years. (I have two others that were a snap to train). She took about 5 months to potty train. This is an unusually long time, I had to back up numerous times and start over. I dug into her past and found out that she was traumatized by her experience before I came along. She completely missed the prime time of her life to be potty trained. I was really forced to take small baby steps forward after very minimal progress. 

MOST dogs won’t go in their crate. If pup does, remove blankets or padding. This should cure that problem. If problems persist, increase time when no padding is on the floor. 2. You need to start potty training by taking dog out immediately after dog comes out of the crate. Then, gradually increase length of time to regular intervals (gradually increased over the course of one-two months depending on how successful dog is doing). Get dog used to the commands “go poo” and “go pee”. These commands should be a must, they are incredibly helpful when the weather is bad. 

If dog doesn't do anything, that's fine, if it does, give tons of praise and give a treat, preferably one used just for training purposes. Consistency is the key to all of this. Dogs are creatures of habit and depend on a schedule. This is no time to skimp on excessive praise and treats when you are house training. Pup needs to associate yummy treats with doing it’s thing. Boiled or baked chicken liver is a great training tool, dogs crave it and you really have their attention when you use it.

2. Daily walks at least twice a day (about 20-30 minutes each in the same area) are essential for dogs and getting them house trained. Walking gets things moving, dogs love it and it gives them something to look forward to. Try and feed a pup prior to the walks. Never free feed unless your vet says to. Pups have a high metabolism. Soon after it eats or drinks, it will need to go out. 

3. Pups drink huge amounts of water. In theory yours should be able to hold it for (one hour for each month) up to about 9 months. In reality, if a young pup has been playing, it will gulp down lots of water, and just won't be able to hold it for that long. After pup drinks, keep an eye on it. Take it out in about 5-10 minutes and offer it relief. Soon pup will go to the door when it need to go out. 

4. Your pup won't be considered house trained unless it has no accidents for at least 9months! Also, as I learned, there is a HUGE difference in a dog that is 4-6 months old and one that is 9-10 months old. They grow inside and out. Once they reach 9-10 months, their bladders are larger and able to hold it longer. 

5. Piddle pads and newspapers should never be used. Some on this forum have suggested them, and have had success with them. If you start to use them and dog gets accustomed to doing it’s thing on them, you could have a very difficult time getting dog to go on grass or even get dog outside. Some people see these pads and papers as a short cut to potty training. It is not. Dogs really need a natural area to relieve themselves. 

Because dogs are creatures of habit, they will associate the pads and papers with relieving themselves and you may find yourself starting all over in the potty training department, which would make for even more work for all involved. In other words, when was the last time you saw a wolf (dogs closest cousin) use a pee pad?

Good luck !

Anela


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## clipclop

I was going to ask about why my Breeder put in the contact that I would not give the dog rawhides... and this thread pretty much answers it.


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