# Teaching Wait VS. Stay



## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

So, with all my training with Bear, I try to keep in mind my Obedience/Rally goals for the future. For whatever messed up reason, the CKC is one of the few national kennel clubs that still discriminates against mixed-breed dogs in their companion events, so whether or not Bear will live to see the day his dirty mixed blood can enter an Obedience/Rally ring in Canada, who knows, but I'd be kicking myself if he did, and it took us another year of training to get ready because I had been lax in our previous training.

With that in mind, I'm trying to implement the difference between a formal "Stay," to mean that he is to stay in the exact position I left him in and not move an inch, and an informal "Wait," to mean that he can change position, move his feet, relax, as long as his body remains in the same space I left him in. He already has a fairly solid "Stay," but I've never introduced "Wait" to him, and I don't really know how to go about it. In theory, it would have been easier to teach him "Wait" first then ramp up to "Stay," but that ship has sailed, so I'm not sure how to go about it without it just turning into another cue for "Stay." I know that some people use the two cues differently ("Stay" to mean to wait until I release you, "Wait" to mean to wait until your next cue,") but I'm not really interested in that at this point.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

If you are training with obedience (at some point) in mind, I wouldn't train "wait" as "it's okay to shift positions as long as you don't move". You don't want to leave your dog for a recall and turn around to see him lying down or standing. My stay is "until I come back to release you - i.e. at the end of a 5 minute out-of-sight stay. Wait is wait til I tell you what I want next. I suspect if he already knows stay, adding wait won't be too difficult. Always add the new cue a second before the old cue. Or simply go back and teach him "wait" from the beginning, which won't take very long. I hope there is soon a venue where you can trial him. Or that the CKC will follow AKC's lead.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea, I was always taught the only difference between wait and stay was that you can call your dog out of a wait but never out of a stay -- stay means "stay there until I get back to you and release you" and wait means "stay there until I tell you to do something else".


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

I generally use wait as meaning "hold it and watch me for your next direction" whereas stay means "stay right there just like that til I get back and release you."

I'm not sure that Brady really knows they mean something different... but I use them in practical situations... you could start there. I use wait at dinner time. "Down...wait and WATCH ME." (Watch me always comes after wait right now b/c I'm trying to get him to understand that wait is stay/watch me).

I also use wait at the door. He has to sit and wait for my "let's go."


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

Thank you, guys, but as I stated, I am *NOT* interested in training Stay/Wait that way.



Pawzk9 said:


> You don't want to leave your dog for a recall and turn around to see him lying down or standing. My stay is "until I come back to release you - i.e. at the end of a 5 minute out-of-sight stay.


That's a non-issue, because I would be using "Stay" in those instances, not "Wait." That's like saying I shouldn't train "Down" because he might break his sits to go into a down.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

Sorry, I totally missed that sentence. Caught it the fifth time through (I'm all ADHD and stuff).

Does your dog already know to hold a "Stay" position while you walk a circle around it? If not, then you could try doing "Wait" and walk a circle around it, allowing him to change position....and then train "Stay" as walking around him and he must hold it?

My rudamentary attempts at coming up with training methods lol


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Whoops, sorry. Reading comprehension fail on my part -- I skimmed too fast.

Then I got nothing, sorry.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

And I bring up the circle thing because dogs USUALLY change position when you walk around them so that they can watch you. So it would be a good way to get her to move and show her she can move while holding her spot.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TorachiKatashi said:


> Thank you, guys, but as I stated, I am *NOT* interested in training Stay/Wait that way.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a non-issue, because I would be using "Stay" in those instances, not "Wait." That's like saying I shouldn't train "Down" because he might break his sits to go into a down.


Then I'm not sure what question you are asking.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the wait would be. Why not just use "stay"?


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

I'd be a little bit careful with leaving a dog in a sit or down, using "wait" for a cue, and then allowing the dog to move his feet, shift position etc. Seems like it would be a grey area in the dog's mind, and I prefer to keep communication and expectations clear and simple, if possible.


I have three different cues for similar behaviours ...
"stay" for the group excercises, SFE etc
"wait" for recalls etc
and "hang" for informal waits at the stairs, door, or back gate, where I carry on or go through and really don't expect the dog to either actually wait, stay, or not move .. which maybe sounds closer to what it is you're looking for ? I dunno.

Not sure why you'd want to use a wait cue for that ^^^, if your goal is to possibly trial one day.

Does NAMBR hold trials in your area ? They are a mixed-breed registry that hosts mixed-breed OB trials. Just a thought, to maybe "get you out there"  instead of dreadfully waiting for the dollar signs to finally appear in the CKC's eyes ..


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I used to use "Wait" to let the dog know that another command was coming. I used Stay for "do not move until you die or I get back to you and release you." 

I no longer use either one. Stay means you allow your dog to reak a sit or a down or a stand. These are stationary exercises and if you tell your dog to sit, down or stand the dog should do that until you give another command or a release. IF you must use "stay" then your dog is deciding when to stop sitting, lying down or standing after you have given those cues. 

Breaking a stationary exercise is not the dog's decision. It is YOUR decision. I now am consistant teaching my dog to sit, down or stand... and I do not use Stay or wait anymore because they are redundant.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I use WAIT if I am out walking or riding my horse and Susie is off leash and gets too far ahead of me. I say WAIT and she just stops until I tell her to go on. She can either stand there, move around a bit but not go forward till I tell her to. I just started her out with a long leash and she picked it up really fast. When I tell her to stay, either in a sit or down, she is not to change position and knows that. She actually learned the Wait before she even knew what stay was.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Elana55 said:


> I used to use "Wait" to let the dog know that another command was coming. I used Stay for "do not move until you die or I get back to you and release you."
> 
> I no longer use either one. Stay means you allow your dog to reak a sit or a down or a stand. These are stationary exercises and if you tell your dog to sit, down or stand the dog should do that until you give another command or a release. IF you must use "stay" then your dog is deciding when to stop sitting, lying down or standing after you have given those cues.
> 
> Breaking a stationary exercise is not the dog's decision. It is YOUR decision. I now am consistant teaching my dog to sit, down or stand... and I do not use Stay or wait anymore because they are redundant.


I understand that some people don't like to give anything but the position cue. And that's fine. However the assertation that giving one gives the dog permission to break position makes no sense at all. If I am going for an out-of-sight stay, if I say "stay" I am not giving my dog permission to do anything except stay in position until I have returned to her side and RELEASED her. Before I throw a dumbbell, I do remind the dog to wait until I give the cue to retrieve, since anticipation would cost me a Q. If I have an opportunity to give my dog a legal second cue I'm likely to do so. Redundancy is a fine thing, and I'll sometimes use all the cues I'm legally allowed. I don't really understand a reason why someone who is interested in doing Obedience would want to teach "wait" as "any position as long as you don't leave the spot. But apparently I misunderstood the original question.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

I can understand the redundancy 'arguement' in the case of down-stay, because in order for the dog to physically lie down a cue MUST be given (unless you have mind-ray capabilities lol). So yes, a second stay cue could be considered redundant by some.

However, in the case of wait ... if the handler remains connected and heels from ex to ex (ie: HF >>> DOR), then the dog sets up for the next ex automatically. So in that instance, you wouldn't give ANY cue to the dog before leaving ? Shouldn't _some_ form of instruction be given to the dog to keep him/her temporarily in place ?

I suppose it all depends on whether your dog sets up automatically ??? .. as opposed to needing an actual sit cue to set up before the next ex begins ???


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

If he's allowed to change position, I would make a square on the floor and teach him to stay inside it. Reward as long as he remains inside it, no matter what position he's in, then when he gets it remove the square.

I personally don't see the point of teaching 'wait' and 'stay'. I tried to teach my puppy the 'stay' cue, but found it so difficult to communicate to him what it meant that I simply taught him to hold the sit or down until released. There is no need to add an extra cue to mean 'stay in position'. By definition, if the dog is sitting, he is staying.


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