# At the end of my rope with puppy and NEED help before I get rid of her!!



## samirosenjacken (Oct 23, 2010)

This is my 2nd dog. I have a 15 yr old cocker spaniel so I've trained a dog from puppyhood before. Grizzlie is our 4.5 month old Cavachon and I find her to be completely UNTRAINABLE. I've done everything the books say and this dog still has no clue about going to the potty outside. She is crate trained. I take her out of the crate, out the same door, on a leash outside using the same commands ... and she goes out and goes potty. I give her verbal praise.. and I even reward her with a treat. Doesn't matter. She consistently has accidents every day. Never does she go to the door to indicate she has to go to the bathroom. Sometimes she won't even go outside but waits till she gets back in and then goes. I am home so she gets regular attention. She gets nightly walks. She does not have unlimited access to food or water. I feed her 3x a day. 

She also insists on eating everything outside,, including my older dog's poop! This is one of the reasons she goes out on a leash. During every walk she constantly tries to eat rocks, mulch, bugs.. you name it. She's thrown up at least 4x since we've had her b/c of stuff she's eaten that we weren't able to keep from her. She is never unsupervised. 

We also have trouble trying to get her to come to us in the house. She runs away from us and we spend 15 minutes trying to catch her. I am at my wits end. I fear we will have to get rid of her if we can't get her trained.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

This is my 2nd dog. I have a 15 yr old cocker spaniel so I've trained a dog from puppyhood before. Grizzlie is our 4.5 month old Cavachon and I find her to be completely UNTRAINABLE. 
*What drew you to a cavachon in the first place? How long have you had her, and where did you get her from?*
I've done everything the books say and this dog still has no clue about going to the potty outside. She is crate trained. I take her out of the crate, out the same door, on a leash outside using the same commands ... and she goes out and goes potty. I give her verbal praise.. and I even reward her with a treat. Doesn't matter. She consistently has accidents every day. Never does she go to the door to indicate she has to go to the bathroom. Sometimes she won't even go outside but waits till she gets back in and then goes. 
*Stop giving her the oppourtunity to go in the house if she comes back inside and hasn't eliminated in the yard. If she comes back in full, crate for 10-15 minutes and try again. How much house freedom does she have? Does she have access to the whole house, or one or two rooms? How are you cleaning up the messes she makes in the house (are you getting them smell out with an enzymatic cleaner)? Has she seen a vet to rule out a UTI?*
I am home so she gets regular attention. She gets nightly walks. She does not have unlimited access to food or water. I feed her 3x a day. 
*How much is she getting 3 times a day? How much of a walk is at night, does she get exercise other than that?*

She also insists on eating everything outside,, including my older dog's poop! This is one of the reasons she goes out on a leash. During every walk she constantly tries to eat rocks, mulch, bugs.. you name it. She's thrown up at least 4x since we've had her b/c of stuff she's eaten that we weren't able to keep from her. She is never unsupervised. 
*See the sticky on the board called "It's yer choice". It's a great impulse control game, really helps with puppies a lot *

We also have trouble trying to get her to come to us in the house. She runs away from us and we spend 15 minutes trying to catch her. I am at my wits end. I fear we will have to get rid of her if we can't get her trained. 
*What do you do when you catch her? *


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

I had to google Cavachon because I never heard of the breed... It's a Mutt, King Charles Spaniel and Bischon Frise mix. Another designer fad dog.

How often are you taking this puppy out? The smaller the breed the more often it needs to be taken out. The rules are a tad different with small breeds as their bladders are smaller and need to go more often (I'm talking about every hour on the hour when she's up and about). Also what are you using to clean up the messes? Are you using an enzyme killer to completely eliminate the smell of urine?

Welcome to owning a puppy. They are going to try to eat everything they can, it's the way of the dog. Even my 4 year old likes to find car poop and eat it outside. Poop is wonderful to dogs. Such yummy, good smelling, fresh treats for them. Clean up after you dog as soon as they go so there is no poop to eat. Also start with puppy classes now because the "Leave it" command is a life saver, as well as "Drop it".

As for coming to you in the house, I have to also ask, what are you doing to her when you catch her? She should be wearing a long leash on her when she's inside anyways so you can catch her in mid pee and take her outside when she goes. She should never be out of your eyesight right now since she isn't house broken. Recall should be a FUN game. You should NEVER punish a dog for not coming to you. No matter how long it takes to get that dog to come to you or you to catch your dog, you need to make it be the BEST thing in the world. Treats, love, attention, whatever. Never punish the dog for running away, otherwise the dog learns that coming to you = negative things. Lets say every time you see your boss your boss hits you and screams in your face. You can't leave your job, so what are you going to do? Your going to avoid that boss as much as possible for as long as possible. Now lets say every time you see your boss you get a raise on your paycheck. Doesn't matter how often you see your boss this happens. Your going to seek out that boss as often as you can so you can get that max reward. Can you get my point here?

It honestly sounds like a normal puppy. Might want the vet to check out to see if she has a UTI, but it sounds like all puppy behavior to me. Just calm down, take a deep breath, and relax. Your stress may be causing more stress to your new puppy which is causing more issues.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Darkmoon said:


> I had to google Cavachon because I never heard of the breed... It's a Mutt, King Charles Spaniel and Bischon Frise mix. Another designer fad dog.
> 
> How often are you taking this puppy out? The smaller the breed the more often it needs to be taken out. The rules are a tad different with small breeds as their bladders are smaller and need to go more often (I'm talking about every hour on the hour when she's up and about). Also what are you using to clean up the messes? Are you using an enzyme killer to completely eliminate the smell of urine?
> 
> ...


The peeing issue gets my mind rolling on the Culture Clash, which I think the OP should read. But the gist is, a lot of owners take their dogs outside and walk them (dog gets to sniff, see/hear interesting things, etc) in order to get them to pee. The second they pee they go back inside. In the dogs' mind that's a punishment, so the dog puts off peeing outside as long as they can in order to avoid ending the fun stuff. The owner gets bored and takes the dog back inside, the dog realizes it has to pee and unloads on the oriental rug (a pourous surface). Makes a lot of sense, to a dog at least IME...


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## samirosenjacken (Oct 23, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> This is my 2nd dog. I have a 15 yr old cocker spaniel so I've trained a dog from puppyhood before. Grizzlie is our 4.5 month old Cavachon and I find her to be completely UNTRAINABLE.
> *What drew you to a cavachon in the first place? How long have you had her, and where did you get her from?*
> 
> * We were originally going to get a Bischon. We wanted a small hypoallergenic dog. Then we saw the Cavachon and it was love at first site. We researched her and she was a cross between the two breeds we liked... spaniel and bischon. The cavachon was also hyperallegenic and an active pup which would fit in with our active family. Her size was perfect for us.. as was her temperment. We've had her 2 months and we got her from a reputable place in town who has been in business for 15yrs. We were referred there by a number of people who have gotten their dogs there. *
> ...


* our problem is either when she steals socks and we have to get them from her or when we are leaving and she needs to get back in her crate. If we are leaving, she has to go in the crate, which I just learned sends the wrong signal to the dog  If she has a sock we either chase her to get it.. scold her and give her a toy instead.. or put her in her crate once we retrieve the socks. I am trying to get her to learn the sit, stay and come commands. *

Thank you so much for your reply!!



Darkmoon said:


> I had to google Cavachon because I never heard of the breed... It's a Mutt, King Charles Spaniel and Bischon Frise mix. Another designer fad dog. * true.. but the perfect mix for us b/c we wanted a King Charles Cavalier spaniel but they shed too much and my son is allergic so this dog looks EXACTLY like the spaniel but has the hypoallergenic portion of the bischon! *
> 
> How often are you taking this puppy out? The smaller the breed the more often it needs to be taken out. The rules are a tad different with small breeds as their bladders are smaller and need to go more often (I'm talking about every hour on the hour when she's up and about). Also what are you using to clean up the messes? Are you using an enzyme killer to completely eliminate the smell of urine?
> 
> ...


* I think you are right.. I am just concerned with the fact she doesn't alert us to her need to go to the bathroom. I think I'd feel much better if she would at least go to the door and tell us she has to go instead of staring us in the face and doing it right there! *


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

You got lucky on what mix you got. When you mix dogs, you are pretty much throwing everything in a bag and hoping for the best. No responsible breeder breeds mixed dogs so please keep a close eye on your dog for future health problems and temperament issues.

My dog after 3 years of being with me just started to alert when he REALLY needs to go out. He comes up to you and acts all antzy which can either mean he's bored and wants to play or he has to go potty NOW. You can't expect to have a dog alert you when they have to go out, you just need to be on top of the potty breaks and keep a close eye on them in between. Think of your puppy like potty training a human toddler. At the beginning, they can't tell you if they need to go, because they really can't control it. Over time they can start to tell, but most of the time by the time they can tell, it's too late. Once they know when they have to go, they tell you NOW and you better be running to that toilet or have an accident.

Be a head of the game and do not look for an alert. If your waiting to be alerted then you will have issues housebreaking.

As for stealing socks, Thats a FUN FUN FUN game for dogs. Heck my dog thinks it's so much fun to steal my socks right off of my feet. Chase the number 1 favorite game of ALL dogs. So what you are doing is indeed, play a game with her, yelling at her when you get her, and then sending her to her crate. Yeah I wouldn't want to come to you either. Ignore it when she has your sock and start playing with another toy. Once she drops that sock to come see what your up to, PRAISE her and then play the game with one of her toys instead.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

I agree. Hoping that a 4.5 month puupy will alert you is asking a wee bit too much.

You may be able to see some signs, though. ... peculiar sniffing, tail held in a slightly different position, circling while sniffing, ignoring you, not responding to play, .. etc etc.

If and when you see these distinct mannerisms, it's best to give the puppy an opportunity to immediately go outside, just to be safe.


Also ... 

Try to build a rythym, by maintaining a strict outdoor schedule, and by maintaining a strict food and water schedule

Never stand inside in the doorway and watch, ... rather, stand outside with your pup even in the pouring rain


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

our problem is either when she steals socks and we have to get them from her or when we are leaving and she needs to get back in her crate. If we are leaving, she has to go in the crate, which I just learned sends the wrong signal to the dog If she has a sock we either chase her to get it.. scold her and give her a toy instead.. or put her in her crate once we retrieve the socks. I am trying to get her to learn the sit, stay and come commands. 

Thank you so much for your reply!!

*Well, I'm thinking chasing her to get the sock sounds like a great game puppies love to play. And once you catch her she gets a scolding...why wouldn't she play keep away, kwim? I would keep treats (100 dollar jackpot stuff, like hot dog bits or cheese) in a baggie in your pocket. ANY time she comes to you voluntarily (you're sitting on the couch watching TV, at your computer desk, etc) without a prompt or a "come", she gets a treat. She'll start to figure out that approaching leads to something good.
When I leave the house, my 18 month old dog still gets crated. I have an older dog who doesn't take kindly to his idea of fun games, so he's crated when I leave. He doesn't particularly LOVE it, but he's learned it's no big deal, and he usually gets something good (A frozen stuffed kong, a special chewie, etc). It's not ideal, but in my situation it's what works, so it's what we do *

s for stealing socks, Thats a FUN FUN FUN game for dogs. Heck my dog thinks it's so much fun to steal my socks right off of my feet. Chase the number 1 favorite game of ALL dogs. So what you are doing is indeed, play a game with her, yelling at her when you get her, and then sending her to her crate. Yeah I wouldn't want to come to you either. Ignore it when she has your sock and start playing with another toy. Once she drops that sock to come see what your up to, PRAISE her and then play the game with one of her toys instead. 

*Bwahaha!! Tag, too!! I taught him to take my socks off for me  I never EVER scold my puppies for picking up things they shouldn't have, like my socks, underwear, or the time Auz took the liberty of moving a 2 1/2 foot fake plant from the dining room to the living room. I hold the attitude of "what have you got!? Aren't you clever!" because I do NOT want a dog who grabs something up and thinks the chase is on. When Tag was a baby I taught him "out" (drop it) for a treat, and phased the treat out within a few weeks. He'll deliver stuff to hand if I ask him to "give", it's really cute, because he acts so darned proud of himself  *



petpeeve said:


> I agree. Hoping that a 4.5 month puupy will alert you is asking a wee bit too much.
> 
> You may be able to see some signs, though. ... peculiar sniffing, tail held in a slightly different position, circling while sniffing, ignoring you, not responding to play, .. etc etc.
> 
> ...


Yes, and your best bets are usually after eating or after a nap. Most puppies gotta go after those activities, and it's best to get them outside and go WITH them so you can tell them they're pretty awesome for peeing on the grass instead of on your mattress. Even at 18 months old I still go outside with Tag to make sure he goes, and to underline the point that peeing in the rain isn't going to kill him


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

For housetraining I have found one of the best things is to keep a chart so that you can learn the pup's bodily schedule:

Date
Time
Meal time
Peed (time)
Pood (time)
Accidents (what kind, where and what time)

Many dogs don't signal their need to go, even as adults. I'm lucky to get a stare from my dog and that's ONLY if she is absolutely desperate, an added whine means upset stomach...and a rush to get out of the building. So expecting a pup, small breed and who has accidents, to understand outside/inside and signal you is setting you both up for frustrating clean ups. 
I also think that 3 times a day of a 1/2 cup of food sounds like an awful lot for a 4.5 month small breed dog. Part of your poop problem could be too much food. 

And ditto the advice on chasing...it creates more problems, especially if she is scolded, crated etc when she IS caught. 

So, start using the crate for short periods when you are NOT going somewhere. Make sure she has an amazing stuffed kong (or better yet, feed her in her kong and IN her crate) to occupy her and go from there. Pups learn very quickly that crate means being "abandoned"..when instead it should have a good connotation. This will also prevent or mediate future separation anxiety issues.

It's important to remember that your last puppy was a LONG TIME ago, we tend to wear rose coloured glasses once our dogs mature and settle in and are "perfect" when they are seniors. I'm sure there were moments of frustration then too...but we move on. LOL

One visit from a good puppy trainer is well worth the money. So is a good puppy class. Sometimes having someone assess you , the pup and your methods is very helpful. Our dogs are not that difficult to train in general, we are usually the one's who mess it up. LOL


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## JuneBud (Feb 17, 2010)

Ever since I got my puppy (5 months old next week) I've said the word "outside" when we go out to potty. Then when once outside, as soon as he would start to pee or poop I'd say "go potty." At this point he understands "go potty" and he will pee on command even when he really doesn't have to. He still is not 100% potty trained though. Every once in a while he will have an accident and it's usually when I'm not paying attention, and sometimes he just forgets he has to go when he's playing and will have an accident.

Keeping a schedule of when she goes is a great idea. Taking her outside once an hour sometimes is not enough. First thing in the morning she may have to go every 20-30 minutes for an hour or so. After that maybe every hour. Then she'll take a nap and go 3, 4, or more hours before needing to go again. If you keep a schedule, this will become more clear.


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## samirosenjacken (Oct 23, 2010)

Thank you EVERYONE for your replies!! I will say she has done great the last two days. I think the reason is because I INSISTED on the routine and forced my family to follow it!! I doubled checked the food and the bag said to give her 1 1/2 cups a day. But I can tell you she doesn't eat that much. She gets offered it 3x a day but never eats it all. 

The routine seems to work very well for her... and I think the major part of the problem is my family sticking to it. The most exciting part is after being on here, I learned how to teach her to SIT and she does it great now! She learned really quick! So I would have to say that 90% of this training is training the husband and kids to follow the schedule!! HA!


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

The bag information is often skewed so that you will use more and therefore buy more. It's just a guideline and dogs being individuals with unique activity levels, growth levels and metabolism rates don't always fit the guidelines. 

And yes, it's more about training the humans than the dogs. Same thing in puppy classes, we teach the handler HOW to teach the pup not the other way around. Good work so far! Make sure you reinforce the kids and hubby when they do well, it will help keep it going...lol


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## samirosenjacken (Oct 23, 2010)

I also use the crate during the day when I am home. She seems content in it.. has tons of toys.. so that hasn't been the issue for us. It's chasing her when we don't want to play and the potty routine. I do say "lets go outside" and she knows to run straight to the door. I also use the phrase "lets go potty" she seems to understand that too! So I guess I am on the right track! And you are absolutely correct about my older dog.. I completely have forgotten about training her .. selective memory loss perhaps?? Let me ask you.. How do I get her to come to me when I want her to??







Grizzlie!


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Teach her the come command. Say it in an excited voice! You have to make coming to you seem better than what she's doing! Give her praise and a treat if she does! 
I'm reading an excellent book, "The Other End of the Leash", and it makes a very good point. When dogs alert us to something (like a hunting dog would tell us where the prey is) they would point with their body (head, feet, everything). But, when we are telling our dogs to come to us, we are FACING them, pointing with our bodies to where they already are instead of where we WANT them to go. That's the opposite of what dogs would do. SO, try saying come, then turning with your whole body, where you want them to go, maybe even take a step or two in the direction you want them to go. My guess is she will follow you. And, you can work on recall ("come" ) anytime. In the house, call her to you using come, several times throughout the day. Treat and praise her when she does!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

samirosenjacken said:


> Thank you EVERYONE for your replies!! I will say she has done great the last two days. I think the reason is because I INSISTED on the routine and forced my family to follow it!! I doubled checked the food and the bag said to give her 1 1/2 cups a day. But I can tell you she doesn't eat that much. She gets offered it 3x a day but never eats it all.
> 
> The routine seems to work very well for her... and I think the major part of the problem is my family sticking to it. The most exciting part is after being on here, I learned how to teach her to SIT and she does it great now! She learned really quick! So I would have to say that 90% of this training is training the husband and kids to follow the schedule!! HA!


I have learned that dogs are easy to train.. Owners OTOH not so much....


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