# Rank smelling stool from premium dog food??



## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

With our new Decker Terrier pup I thought I would feed her a premium brand dog food. Previously I've only used brands like Eukanuba, Purina One etc. thinking those were good due to meat being the first ingrediant.
Well it just made sense that dogs being carnivores don't need all that wheat, soy and corn so I thought I would try a premium brand.
Anyway...I've noticed our Terrier's poop is REALLY bad smelling and wondered if this has something to do with the no carb/high protein EVO dog food we've got her on. I know I could try other brands but was wondering if this was typical of high meat brands. Her stool tends to be formed but soft as well.
Thanks for any advice.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

EVO is a rich food, maybe too rich for Decker's system. I feed Innova or Wellness Super 5 Mix, and my dogs have little odor to their stools. JMO


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Patt said:


> EVO is a rich food, maybe too rich for Decker's system.


I have never bought the story that EVO is too rich for some dogs because it has more meat in it. There is no such thing as a diet with too much meat for a carnivore. Because it has more meat and less filler, you don't need to feed as much. Cut back a good bit on the amount you are feeding and I think things will straighten out. I would feed maybe half for a week to see what effect it has.


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## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

I am feeding her according to the age and weight instructions on the bag, about 2 cups a day. Shelby is almost 6 months old and very high energy so you would think she could utilize the food but with no experience with the premium brands I didn't know what to think.
I thought maybe the high protein or fat might be the culprit.
Just trying to put my feelers out to see what others have experienced.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

Two cups is a lot for a 6 month old, I would cut back. The bags always tell you to feed more than they need. Also are you feeding two times a day?


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## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes I give her 1 cup AM and 1 cup early PM.
If I was over feeding wouldn't she get fat?
Shes all muscle.


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## HuskyLuv (May 16, 2008)

Two cups is too much IMO. I also wouldn't feed a pup EVO because of the high calcium content, I would start them on regular Innova then graduate to Innova EVO at about 12 to 18 months.

I have a full grown husky who weighs in at 56 lbs and he doesn't even eat two cups of EVO a day. He eats about 1 and 3/4 cups of EVO daily, gets plenty of exercise, and is a very healthy and lean dog.

I don't have the 'smelly' stool issue but I will say that if I feed too much EVO (which was an issue when I first switched him from Natural Balance and was trying to determine the "right" amount to feed him) he does get soft or runny stool.

I would also suggest cutting back the amount you're feeding and keep an eye on him. Just make sure he's not losing weight or anything after the cut-backs.


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## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks for the info.
I will get her some Innova tomorrow.


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

How many lbs is your dog?

I agree with what others have said. The bags exagerate. My *large* dog will _barely_ put down two cups a day.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

What breed and weight of your dog?


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## lucygoose (Feb 11, 2008)

Willie is a 8 pounder and I feed him just 3/4 cup split into 2 feedings and he is very active. He is also on the Ennova EVO. I had been wanting to switch his food too, as I think it's more softer/slimier than it was when I had him on Solid Gold......I went out yesterday, but ended up coming home with Wellness Core......He loves it......But Willie eats anything.....LOL......I never smelled that strong of a smell like you. 

I should add that a lot of the time, Willie doesn't eat the whole 3/4 .....I put it down and when he is done eating, I pick it up till the next feeding....

Good Luck!


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## CinnamintStick (Jul 25, 2008)

My 76 pound English Setter gets 1 cup Blue Wilderness twice a day. Same as my Border Collie. He is not hungry. He runs non stop for hours. He is still pudgy and not losing weight on the high protein low carb food. Maybe it will just take a while.


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## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

My puppy bitch "Shelby" is 6 mos. old and a "Decker" Rat Terrier.
She weighs 26 lbs.
Most people may not be aware of this variety of Rat Terrier.
They were developed for hunting and are larger than the regular Rat Terriers.
Adults can run from 30 - 40 lbs. 
They are *very* athletic, have a strong prey drive and a high energy dog. 
Maybe thats why Shelby was able to polish off 2 cups of EVO a day.
Never-the-less I got some Innova puppy today and will switch her over.

I went into purchasing a premium dog food rather blind. I went into a pet store and asked for a grain free brand and a store employee recommeded the EVO and said it was for all stages.

Heres more info on Deckers. They are super dogs. Bright, love people and lots of fun but mine is very challenging to train. She is very stubborn but I guess thats typical for Terriers.
http://www.deckerterrier.com/gpage1.html

Hey Lucy, Willie is adorable!

By the way we have 2 Chihuahuas too.
9 and 11 yrs. old.
They're not very impressed with Shelby.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

Don't think I've seen this suggested so will add in my 2 cents ... Have you tried adding some plain yogurt to her feed? If there are any temporary digestive upsets, the probiotics should get her system back on track.


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## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

UB thats a great idea!


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## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

Just an update on Shelby.
She's been on Innova Puppy formula for one week and I do believe her poo isn't as stinky. I know its not good to try 2 new things at once but I've also been giving her a about 4-5 Tbs. of plain Stoneyfield yogurt about 2 - 3 x a week.
Something else I've noticed...she isn't as hyper. Maybe the EVO was just too rich for her system afterall. Has anybody ever noticed a premium dog food making your dog hyper?


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## SamiLynNewJersey (Aug 13, 2008)

I used premium dog food when the pet food posion issue was happening, I did not notice them being any more hyper than they can be at normal times. I have had to go back to using Pedigree or Purina because it is cheaper.


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## 2Catahoulas (Aug 11, 2008)

Cottage Rose said:


> Well it just made sense that dogs being carnivores don't need all that wheat, soy and corn so I thought I would try a premium brand.


Cottage Rose, dogs are within the scientific order _Carnivora_ by dentition (dental pattern)... but dogs, like Grizzly Bears and Brown Bears are true omnivores.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

2Catahoulas said:


> Cottage Rose, dogs are within the scientific order _Carnivora_ by dentition (dental pattern)... but dogs, like Grizzly Bears and Brown Bears are true omnivores.


ONLY people in the pet food industry and the vet profession will call a dog an omnivore. Pet food industry MUST convince you that they are omnivores to get you to buy their grain based foods. Vet industry goes the omnivore route because almost all their nutrition training is given to them by the pet food industry.

Dogs are definately carnivores. There is no argument about that among people trained in biology, zoology, and animal husbantry.

There are physical charateristics that make an animal a carnivore or omnivore.

1. Carnivores have large mouths as they eat other animals. Omnivores/herbivores have smaller mouths. Dogs have large mouths.

2. Omnivores have flat teeth in the back of their mouths. This is used to crush and mash plant material. All plant material has each cell coated with cellulose. You must mash and crush this shell to extract nutrients from the plant. Humans have these flat teeth. Carnivores don't have flat teeth. Dogs don't have flat teeth. They can't get through the cellulose to get to the nutrients. Carnivore teeth are designed to kill prey(front teeth) and to rip and tear meat and crush bones(back teeth). Dogs have carnivore teeth.

3. When omnivores/herbivores chew, they move their lower jaw not only up and down but also sideways in order to crush the cellulose. Carnivores don't have the ability to move their lower jaw from side to side. Only up and down. Dogs can only move their lower jaw up and down.

4. Omnivores/herbivores hae an enzyme called amylaze in their salava and stomach juices. Amylaze is used to digest plant material and digestion begins in the mouth for these animals. Carnivores don't have amylaze in their salava or stomach. They don't make the enzymes necessary for digesting plant material. Dogs don't have amylaze in their salava.

5. I don't know how to explain it with words but there is a difference in the way the lower jaw is hinged in omnivores/herbivores and carnivores.

6. Carnivores have very acidic stomach juices to kill bacteria on meats and to digest bones. Omnivores/herbivores have much less acidic stomach juices. Dogs stomach juices are more than 50% hydrochloric acid.

7. Omnivores/herbivores have relatively long intestinal tracts. Carbs must ferment in the gut for a long time during digestion. Carnivores being meat eaters have a very short intestinal tract in order to get the meat through the body quickly before it rots. With thier short intestinal tract they are not able to have carbs in the intestines long enough to digest. Dogs have short intestines.

So there you have your biology lesson in a nutshell. There is no arguing the fact that dogs are carnivores. They have all the physical characteristics of a carnivore and none of the omnivores characteristics.

Dogs eat such a very small amount of plant material in the wild as to have no effect on diet. Most of the plant material they eat are sweet berries and fruits when in season. Eating those is the same as us eating cake and ice cream. It tastes great but no nutrition is derived from eating them.

*EDITED TO ADD:* You can't force a dog to be an omnivore by forcing him to eat plant material. It doesn't matter how much plant material he is forced to eat, he is still a carnivore and always will be until those physical conditions listed above change.


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## Cottage Rose (Aug 4, 2008)

What is or isn't a carnivore is obviously a debatable topic which could go on endlessly but even carnivores like the African big cats eat the stomach contents of their cud chewing-grazing prey first. 
Whatever dogs are they don't need a feed that is predominantly corn, wheat or soy. That is not to say they should have or don't need any grains or veggies. 
All dogs eat grass and my Chihuahua's LOVE raw carrots. 

Unfortunately trends in feed are not always a good thing.
In the poultry feed industry you can barely find any meat or fish meal in the feeds anymore. All have been converted to soy based feeds after the mad cow disease scare.
(IMO a hoax/scare like the bird flu propaganda)
Soy has a precursor to estrogen so it can mess with your hormones...even in humans.
Soy should not be consumed more than 3 x a week. 
See Weston Price's website for more info/myths on soy, fat, meat, milk etc.
http://www.westonaprice.org/
Soy is over promoted and over used in my opinion and corn is pretty much empty calories and simply isn't something any person or creature should eat a lot of.


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## 2Catahoulas (Aug 11, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> ONLY people in the pet food industry and the vet profession will call a dog an omnivore. Pet food industry MUST convince you that they are omnivores to get you to buy their grain based foods. Vet industry goes the omnivore route because almost all their nutrition training is given to them by the pet food industry.


I'm not in the pet food industry nor am I a vet. I'm also sparing this community from your long list of points. *Yes, a dog is a carnivore that eats an omnivorous diet.* What is a fact is a fact.

So there you have your biology lesson in a nutshell. There is no arguing the fact that dogs are carnivores. They have all the physical characteristics of a carnivore and none of the omnivores characteristics.
You are basing your argument on the scientific classification of _Carnivora_ and ignoring the diets of carnivores that eat vegetation by choice. No one can force two large species of American bear to eat vegetation. A Giant Panda's (_Carnivora_) diet is mostly vegetation. Your argument is really a moot point now. I suspect you have no formal education and refuse to research any academic papers on the subject of canine diets.

Dogs eat such a very small amount of plant material in the wild as to have no effect on diet. Most of the plant material they eat are sweet berries and fruits when in season.
You just qualified my point and lost yours. Your statement above runs against your argument. A true carnivore is called an obligate carnivore and can only eat meat. 

You can't force a dog to be an omnivore by forcing him to eat plant material. It doesn't matter how much plant material he is forced to eat, he is still a carnivore and always will be until those physical conditions listed above change.
You apparently have all your "physical conditions" on a pc note pad ready to copy and paste and clog the forum. You've been arguing raw diets with other forum members with no luck. I guess you just don't get so I'm done with you and will spend my time with more level headed people here.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cottage Rose said:


> ... but even carnivores like the African big cats eat the stomach contents of their cud chewing-grazing prey first.


I don't have any knowledge about the African big cats but I do know about wild wolves, my own dogs and cats. Wolves don't eat stomach contents of the large prey they eat. Animals that are very small and swallowed after a couple of crunches, yes they do because it's too much trouble to empty the stomach before eating, but deer, elk, buffalo, etc do not have have their stomach contents eaten. This is verified by studies by David Mech, who is the world's formost wild wolf researcher. It is written in many of his research papers as well as several of his books about wild wolf diets. You can google him and get that information if you wish.

As far as my own dogs ... I have fed 4 dogs whole rabbits many times. Without fail, each dog will remove the intestines then take out the stomach, sissor it open and shake out the contents before eating the stomach. They have never eaten stomach contents. I didn't teach them this, they just did it by instinct. When they finish eating a rabbit, all that is left is a neat little pile of intestines and stomach contents strewn around the area.

Most raw feeders I talk to have the same experience with stomachs as me but a few report that their dogs do eat stomach contents of rabbits but even if they do, what are we taking about ... a spoonful of veggie material? Even with that, its not the veggies most people want to feed their dogs. It's not carrots, zuchinni, lettuce, etc ... it would be partially digested grass, leaves, weeds and twigs.

I often find little stomachs lying on my porch where my cats have eaten small wild caught animals. I suspect with African wild cats, its the same as wolves. Yes, they dig into the prey animals belly to get to the nutritious organs but don't eat the stomach contents.

BTW: I agree with the rest of your post.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

2Catahoulas said:


> I'm not in the pet food industry nor am I a vet. I'm also sparing this community from your long list of points. *Yes, a dog is a carnivore that eats an omnivorous diet.* What is a fact is a fact.


Other than occasionally eating grass which pretty quickly comes out one end or the other unchanged and a few fruits and berries they pretty much stick to meat, bones, and organs. I suspect they eat fruits and berries because they taste good, as they can't extract nutrients from them. None of the plant material they eat is enough to make up a significent part of their diet.

You are basing your argument on the scientific classification of _Carnivora_ and ignoring the diets of carnivores that eat vegetation by choice.

No, I am basing my arugment on what a dog's body is capable of eating, digesting, and extracting nutrients from. That would be only meat, bones, and organs. They can eat all the grass they want but if they throw it back up or comes out the back end twisted into a little rope, it does them no good nutritionally and wasn't eaten for nutriion. I wonder how they twist that grass into a little rope like that? 



> No one can force two large species of American bear to eat vegetation.


I'm not talking about bears, I'm talking about dogs/wolves. BTW: Except for the sweet stuff like berries, etc ... vegetation makes up a very small part of the bear's diet too.



> A Giant Panda's (_Carnivora_) diet is mostly vegetation.


Pandas are an exception to the rule, dogs aren't. Pandas spend 20 hours a day eating because they have so much trouble extracting nutrients from bamboo. THey must eat a HUGE amount to survive.



> Your argument is really a moot point now. I suspect you have no formal education and refuse to research any academic papers on the subject of canine diets.


You suspect wrong and I have read many research papers on wild wolf diets. I'm really not concerned about other canine diets.



> You just qualified my point and lost yours. Your statement above runs against your argument. A true carnivore is called an obligate carnivore and can only eat meat.


Hehe, everytime I see the term "obligate carnivore" I know I'm talking to someone who is trying to convince me that dogs are omnivores. The term obligate carnivore refers to cats who, unlike most mammals, do not have the ability to synthesize taurine internally so they MUST injest taurine in their diet. Taurine is contained in most all meats. That means a cat must eat meat or he will die. Dogs don't need taurine in their diet because they make it internally. That doesn't make them any less a carnivore. There are no degrees of carnivorism. Either an animal is a carnivore or he is an omnivore. A dog is a carnivore ... a meat eater. He has no dietary need for plant material. That is proven by my dogs who haven't eaten plant material in 6 years. My 3 year old Dane has never eaten plant material in his life. Everyone his healthy. You would think if plant material were required in the diet, they would be showing some symptoms of dietary difficiency by now, wouldn't you?



> You apparently have all your "physical conditions" on a pc note pad ready to copy and paste and clog the forum.


Yes, Actually I do. However they are my words. I didn't copy them from anywhere. I wrote them several times in different posts and decided it would be much easier just to paste them because they are pretty long so I wrote them into a text file.



> You've been arguing raw diets with other forum members with no luck.


Hehe, where do you get the "no luck" thing? You don't see my email. There are two new people I am helping switch over right now and many many others I have helped in the past. I probably get 10 to 15 emails a day asking questions about raw feeding. I spend much more time answering emails than I spend on this forum.



> I guess you just don't get so I'm done with you and will spend my time with more level headed people here.


Been nice chattin, with ya


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## 2Catahoulas (Aug 11, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I'm not talking about bears, I'm talking about dogs/wolves. BTW: Except for the sweet stuff like berries, etc ... vegetation makes up a very small part of the bear's diet too.


Grizzly Bear: Green vegetation dominates early summer diets. Fruit/berries such as soopolallie and mountain huckleberry are eaten in August. Bears eat substantial amounts of clover and alfalfa._ --Dr. Mark Boyce, University of Alberta, M.H. Price, University of Victoria._

In most areas, more than 75 percent of the Brown/Grizzly bear's diet consists of vegetable matter, including berries, roots, and grasses. _--National Wildlife Federation._

Black Bears: Their primary diet includes insects, nuts, berries, roots, and other plant materials. _--National Wildlife Federation._ 

In Yellowstone Grizzlies and Black Bears are omnivores with 90% of their diet consisting of vegetation. _--Herrero 1985, Yellowstone National Park Bear Management Order_

RawFedDogs wrote:"There are no degrees of carnivorism. Either an animal is a carnivore or he is an omnivore. A dog is a carnivore ... a meat eater. He has no dietary need for plant material." "No, I am basing my arugment on what a dog's body is capable of eating, digesting, and extracting nutrients from. That would be only meat, bones, and organs." "I suspect they eat fruits and berries because they taste good, as they can't extract nutrients from them. None of the plant material they eat is enough to make up a significent part of their diet."
Where I come from, arugment is spelled argument. That aside, what you suspect is not scientific data. Also on your point about "degrees of carnivorism" see the below on the *Giant Panda*.

Dog nutrition: Generally measured in terms of calories, energy comes from three major dietary components: carbohydrates, protein, and fats. Digestible carbohydrates are readily broken down by intestinal tract enzymes. Fermentable carbohydrates include certain starches and dietary fibers that pass undigested through the small intestine to the colon, where they are fermented by microbes into short-chain fatty acids and gases. --National Academy of Sciences

"They can eat all the grass they want but if they throw it back up or comes out the back end twisted into a little rope, it does them no good nutritionally and wasn't eaten for nutriion. I wonder how they twist that grass into a little rope like that?"
We're adults here and you can use the scientific nomenclature of anus instead of "back end" unless that is not in your lexicon. How odd. I never mentioned grass as part of a dog's diet. However, you insert this in some attempt to bolster your opinion on canine diets. And it's nutrition, not "nutriion".

"That is proven by my dogs who haven't eaten plant material in 6 years."
This is your choice. However, I don't know your dogs and no one else in this forum knows your dogs and therefor your dogs cannot be evidence of any scientific method or study. Anyone with any higher eduction knows this.

"You suspect wrong and I have read many research papers on wild wolf diets. I'm really not concerned about other canine diets."
This is a dog forum and from what I read above, you're interested in wolf diets but not dog diets?

"Pandas are an exception to the rule...
Oh, now you admit that there are carnivores that are omnivores. Which way is it... carnivores are meat eaters or there are exceptions?

"dogs aren't. Pandas spend 20 hours a day eating because they have so much trouble extracting nutrients from bamboo. THey must eat a HUGE amount to survive."
Pandas do not have "trouble" extracting nutrients from bamboo. Bamboo is their major food source. What you're saying is the same as saying cows have trouble extracting nutrients from grass. Pandas are required to eat bamboo due to the geographic region of China that they come from and as unchanged Pleistocene survivors. 

What county in Georgia are you from?


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Mmmm ya, the whole carnivore/omnivore argument really has no utility other than as rhetorical argument, and those don't have a place when we're talking about the dietary needs of *dogs*. All we can assert are things like, dogs are less carnivorous than cats, but that's not telling us much as far as the dog's dietary needs or that raw fed diets are preferred.


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## 2Catahoulas (Aug 11, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Mmmm ya, the whole carnivore/omnivore argument really has no utility other than as rhetorical argument, and those don't have a place when we're talking about the dietary needs of *dogs*. All we can assert are things like, dogs are less carnivorous than cats, but that's not telling us much as far as the dog's dietary needs or that raw fed diets are preferred.


I'll agree with you on all the above. However, no one can seem to talk about foods without that certain person and her litany of arguments that have no basis. I just use science to back up what I say. I really hope that person will stop promoting and giving erroneous information. She/he can do with their dogs as he/she sees fit and good luck to he/she.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

2Catahoulas said:


> I really hope that person will stop promoting and giving erroneous information.


Yes, but I don't know how likely this will be, as it seems a part of human psychology to seek affirmation, not necessarily a trail of sound logic. When you spend most of your time within a circle, of course those arguments are going to be rehearsed and subsequently reified without necessary proof. We can only hope common sense prevails to show that these arguments are taken to the extreme, and have less value than those with supporting empirical evidence; regardless of which side of the argument you're on. This makes obvious sense, though it's hardly followed IMO. 

The bottom line of this, really, is try to make the most informed choices you can, whether that's in selecting a kibble or preparing your own dog's diet, and don't necessarily believe everything you've read on the internet; in spite of how logical the arguments are presented. The only authority we should trust is in our effort to provide the best diet we can for our dogs, through research, and that effort does not begin or end at this forum. I think we share this POV.


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

2Catahoulas said:


> I'll agree with you on all the above. However, no one can seem to talk about foods without that certain person and her litany of arguments that have no basis. I just use science to back up what I say. *I really hope that person will stop promoting* and giving erroneous information. *She/he can do with their dogs as he/she sees fit and good luck to he/she.*


x 2


I give my dogs whole prey items. They eat it all... Stomach too.

I know that dogs are "wolves" DNA wise and that is the main arguement.

They aren't far off from being coyotes too. 

Its very close and can't be ignored/consitered.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

2Catahoulas said:


> Grizzly Bear: Green vegetation dominates early summer diets. Fruit/berries such as soopolallie and mountain huckleberry are eaten in August. Bears eat substantial amounts of clover and alfalfa._ --Dr. Mark Boyce, University of Alberta, M.H. Price, University of Victoria._


Again, we are not discussing bears.



> Where I come from, arugment is spelled argument. That aside, what you suspect is not scientific data.


Where I come from, we don't limit ourselves to only one way to spell something.  If you want scientific data, try these:

Read the book Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. It is a well referenced book on why you should feed a raw diet. You can get this book at amazon.com or dogwise.com or from Tom's webpage at http://www.rawmeatybones.com You can download it in PDF format for just a vew dollars from his web site.

You can also look at these websites that have scientifically referenced information.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/
http://www.rawmeatybones.com
http://rawfeddogs.net/
http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
http://www.championpetfoods.com/orij...hite_paper.pdf --- This one is by a dog food company
http://www.kc.net/~wolf2dog/wayne2.htm



> Dog nutrition: Generally measured in terms of calories, energy comes from three major dietary components: carbohydrates, protein, and fats. Digestible carbohydrates are readily broken down by intestinal tract enzymes. Fermentable carbohydrates include certain starches and dietary fibers that pass undigested through the small intestine to the colon, where they are fermented by microbes into short-chain fatty acids and gases. --National Academy of Sciences


Merck Veterinary Manual (8th ed., pg. 1628) tells us, dogs and cats
have "no dietary requirement for carbohydrate."



> How odd. I never mentioned grass as part of a dog's diet. However, you insert this in some attempt to bolster your opinion on canine diets. And it's nutrition, not "nutriion".


I get the grass argument a lot from people trying in vain to classify dogs as omnivores. Dogs have no mechanism in them to digest plant material, grass or any other plants despite what the National Academy of Science says. The enzymes to digest plants are just not there.



> "That is proven by my dogs who haven't eaten plant material in 6 years."
> This is your choice. However, I don't know your dogs and no one else in this forum knows your dogs and therefor your dogs cannot be evidence of any scientific method or study. Anyone with any higher eduction knows this.




I am on a yahoo list with 11,000 other raw feeders. All have the same experience. We have taken our dogs and fed them meat, bones, and organs for years and observed the results. Isn't that what the scientists do?

My dogs do prove that dogs can and do live a healthy life without eating carbs. They may not prove it to you but they do to me.



> This is a dog forum and from what I read above, you're interested in wolf diets but not dog diets?


Wolf diet .... dog diet ... same thing. Dogs ARE wolves. Wild wolf diets tell us what our dogs should be eating. What they have been eating and thriving on for millions of years.



> Oh, now you admit that there are carnivores that are omnivores. Which way is it... carnivores are meat eaters or there are exceptions?


A panda is a freak of nature. No one knows why it happened. It's kinda like a two headed turtle. Again, by definition, a carnivore eat meat and an omnivore eats meat and plants. Thats what the words mean. You can't change the meaning to suit your needs. Carnivores are called carnivores for a reason ... they eat meat. If they eat meat and plants they are omnivores. Dogs are carnivores. Its just that simple.

What county in Georgia are you from?[/QUOTE]

I live in Carroll County right now, why?


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

not to be a pain, but a two headed turtle is not a product of evolution. Like a panda would be.


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