# Starting agility...how to get my puppy toy-motivated?



## LexiPup (Nov 14, 2010)

For all you agility people out there--

I'm just now getting into agility. I have a 7 month old aussie puppy who shows a lot of promise (I think, anyway). She's fast, smart, speeds through her tunnel and collapsed chute and loves her teeter board.

I keep hearing from people that I have to get her toy motivated since you can't use treats in agility trials. I've tried a bunch of toys and she kind of likes them, but she doesn't have the obsession that I see on the agility videos. Any suggestions on how I can get this going? Any specific toys that work better than others?

Thanks for the help!


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

LexiPup said:


> For all you agility people out there--
> 
> I'm just now getting into agility. I have a 7 month old aussie puppy who shows a lot of promise (I think, anyway). She's fast, smart, speeds through her tunnel and collapsed chute and loves her teeter board.
> 
> ...


You can't use toys at the trial either. Whatever you use as your reward has to be faded before you go to trial. You can use treats all you want while waiting your turn, just not on the actual course.


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

You can use the lead as a "toy"? When she comes running across the finish you can let her pull/tug on the end while you are getting her leashed? Or is that also unacceptable?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

The idea is that you use whatever motivates the dog to perform each obstacle ENOUGH that the obstacle itself becomes it's own motivation...Food and a clicker are your friend. 

Be sure though, at your pup's age that the basics do not involve a lot of jumping. Hopefully your instructor is educated on how to condition and protect young growing bones. 

That being said, I do not do agility with my dog at all (though plan to in the future) so my comments are to be taken from a general training and dog health perspective and from the perspective of a lifelong athlete.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

Some people do reward with a leash tug at the end of a run.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Some people do reward with a leash tug at the end of a run.


But you need to do it a certain distance away from the ring, or you can lose your Q.

Honestly, your dog does NOT have to be toy motivated. Food is fine. You just can't use it on or too close to the course. There are a LOT of dogs I know that do not receive a toy reward at the end of their run, because that's not what they want. The handlers take the dogs back to the set up and give them some sort of food reward (cat food is popular).

I've got one dog that I cannot use food rewards with. There's no point. He NEEDS a toy, so that's what we use. He's always been highly food and toy motivated, but given the choice, he'll take a certain toy over high value foods. My little bitch can go either way.


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## LexiPup (Nov 14, 2010)

Hmmm. That's very interesting! It seem like many of the dogs I see on agility videos go crazy for their toys. She just doesn't seem that interested in tugging. I've really tried. But thanks for letting me know that isn't necessary!

I don't do any jumping with my puppy that is over 2" or so, I'm very aware of the risks. I can't wait till she's old enough to do the real stuff, but we're having fun anyway!


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

You don't have to be able to reward with a toy, but it helps. For agility, I do prefer a toy motivated dog over a foodie, because there are some things that are easier to teach if you can throw a toy. There are things that are easier to teach with food too, but toys (especially tug) tends to get dogs up in drive, and that's generally what you want in agility. So you don't HAVE to have a toy motivated dog (my dog will only tug in public sometimes, and the reason we aren't trialing yet isn't because he's not toy motivated), it's useful to have the choice of rewarding with food OR toys. Since your dog is young, you have a good opportunity to foster and build toy drive.

Here's an article to start you out: http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

I used to have a bunch of them bookmarked, I'll see if I can find them again.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Cracker said:


> *The idea is that you use whatever motivates the dog to perform each obstacle ENOUGH that the obstacle itself becomes it's own motivation...Food and a clicker are your friend. *
> 
> Be sure though, at your pup's age that the basics do not involve a lot of jumping. Hopefully your instructor is educated on how to condition and protect young growing bones.
> 
> That being said, I do not do agility with my dog at all (though plan to in the future) so my comments are to be taken from a general training and dog health perspective and from the perspective of a lifelong athlete.


This.
Tag's toy motivation is so-so. Food motivation is off the charts. Clickers are nice because you can mark the EXACT instant your dog does what you want, and reward a little bit later. 
Like you said, Cracker, eventually agility is the reward for agility...it's a rare thing that I even use treats at class anymore, and his enthusiasm and/or motivation hasn't wavered in the slightest. If anything, it's getting more extreme.


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## LexiPup (Nov 14, 2010)

RaeganW said:


> You don't have to be able to reward with a toy, but it helps. For agility, I do prefer a toy motivated dog over a foodie, because there are some things that are easier to teach if you can throw a toy. There are things that are easier to teach with food too, but toys (especially tug) tends to get dogs up in drive, and that's generally what you want in agility. So you don't HAVE to have a toy motivated dog (my dog will only tug in public sometimes, and the reason we aren't trialing yet isn't because he's not toy motivated), it's useful to have the choice of rewarding with food OR toys. Since your dog is young, you have a good opportunity to foster and build toy drive.
> 
> Here's an article to start you out: http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm=QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

LexiPup said:


> I just read this article, and it's hilarious. I can't wait to see if it works with my puppy.


I also thought it was hilarious. More hilarious would be if we saw it in action. I suggest you video tape your attempt for the rest of us to...uh...learn from.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> You don't have to be able to reward with a toy, but it helps. For agility, I do prefer a toy motivated dog over a foodie, because there are some things that are easier to teach if you can throw a toy. There are things that are easier to teach with food too, but toys (especially tug) tends to get dogs up in drive, and that's generally what you want in agility.


I agree that food is generally a downer and toys are generally an upper for most dogs. But upping the drive is pretty much the last thing I want to do in agility class. I use food rewards only, because toys would send my dog into a tailspin every time. In fact, I tend to use low-value food rewards like kibble and cheerios, just to keep things under threshold. This is absolutely a case-by-case basis. If you'd like to build agility drive in your dog, then building toy drive would be a great place to start. If the dog has a lot of drive already, leave the toys at home. 

My recommendation, if you actually WANT to build toy drive, is that there are a lot of crossover toys on the market. For example, a canvas frisbee that has a little pouch for treats. The dog fetches it, then you open the treat pouch and reward. There are also tugs which have built-in tennis balls: great for a dog that loves balls but won't tug. Etc, etc - you get the idea.

My experience regarding treats/toys and trialing is that by the time the dog is ready to trial, they are so focused on the equipment and the handler that they don't need toys/treats in the ring - the equipment is its own reward, as others here pointed out. I leave a treat bag right outside the ring and treat as soon as we're done. Doing 20+ pieces of equipment and THEN getting the reward is something that you will work up to. If you're just starting out, don't worry that the dog can't hold his/her concentration that long - it will come.


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## LexiPup (Nov 14, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> I also thought it was hilarious. More hilarious would be if we saw it in action. I suggest you video tape your attempt for the rest of us to...uh...learn from.


Yes, I'm sure this is a purely educational request. Ha ha ha...I just might tape it. Just maybe.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Remmy, my Maltese x Shih Tzu is not the least toy motivated so I use treats. I have a treat bag and throw that out if I want him to go out and he will run to it but not pick it up or retrieve it but it still works for what I want.

I have a Shih Tzu puppy right now and he just loves to retrieve his one toy and play tug with it so I will be able to see if I can continue this when I start Agility with him. I will start to put this toy away unless I am playing with him. My sister and I made a couple of little tunnels for in the house and our two pups run back and forth through them and we have a "tippy board" that they are both very confident on. He is very food motivated as well so that also helps. He is only three months old so just doing groundwork with him.


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