# In Desperate Need of Help with 6 month old PAINFUL puppy play biting



## K8erTot

Hi everyone,

First time poster here, and I'm absolutely at my wits end and hoping someone on here may be able to help me.

We have a 6 month old rescue pup, mixed breed, likely a Belgian or Aussie Shepherd/Chow Chow mix. She is very intelligent and we have already had in her puppy training classes which she excelled in. We have had her since she was 11 weeks old, and she was housebroken within days. She's great on leash (usually) and knows all of her basic commands very well, so you can only imagine my frustration that I cannot for the life of me to get her to stop biting me. It's not for lack of trying, either. My husband and I have tried just about every suggestion out there. 

I think she's getting over-stimulated during play and I don't know how to bring her back down to a calm state. I don't see any signs of aggression in the biting, though. She's usually in a play bow and when she's jumping up to bite, her tail is wagging and her ears are perky. There's no growling, bearing of teeth, hair standing up, stiff posture, etc. In order to pre-empt any suggestions for strategies we have already used, I'll go ahead and list the things we have tried:

-She has been spayed, so it's not a "hormonal" thing
-We substitute appropriate chew toys and marrow bones, but she gets so fixated on us that she doesn't want the toys
-We have tried ignoring her by turning around and removing our hands, but she's a herder, so she then attacks our feet
-We've left the room and come back, ignoring her when we re-enter. This works for about 5 minutes, then the biting starts again.
-We have tried brief time-outs to calm her. Same result as with leaving the room.
-We use positive reinforcement with her, so we have tried rewarding her when she's chewing on her toys. Still would rather gnaw on us. 
-We also try to calm her by keeping her focused on clicker training. She does well during the training, but we can't train her 24 hours a day unfortunately.
-We wear her out with exercise, yet still the biting persists.
-We keep her mentally stimulated with KONG and puzzle toys.
-Bitter apple spray? Works sporadically. 
-Thundershirt? I have seen it work miracles on other dogs, but my dog is unphased by it.

The only method I've used that consistently works is shaking coins in a soda can, but my husband won't allow me to do it anymore since he fears it scares her so much it will cause her to be aggressive. She barks like crazy when I do that, but she doesn't bite me.

I'm exhausted. I'm sore. And I'm worried. These aren't nips--it hurts terribly. I have purple and red welts all over my legs and last night she clamped down on my hand so hard I feared she was going to snap my bones. I know she's a good dog; she's wonderful with just about everything BUT this. My biggest fear is if we can't rein this behavior in and she gets over-stimulated with a stranger, she will bite them and have to be put down. People keep telling me that she's just a puppy and she will outgrow it, but I don't want to bank on her bad behavior just magically disappearing. Has anyone else had similar stubborn biting issues??


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## firefighter225

one of the things that worked with our puppy was, and it sound strange, but worked was to say "ouch" very loudly. This acted as a Yelp, and would startle rookie ( our puppy). after a couple weeks the bites became less strong to the point where he would play bite with us my only putting his mouth around our hand...then eventualy he stopped that to. It helps him learn the right pressure to use when playing, that and that we were prob. wussy...lol...
the harder he bit the louder we would say ouch.
Try that out, hopefully that might work...


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## RoughCollie

My dog is like this, too. Yelping or yelling "ouch" revved Aidan up a notch. We tried every suggestion, and none of them worked. I tried something new 2 days ago which worked once, but that is not a guarantee it will work the next time, although I think it will.

I picked him up and held him in my lap. I figured I'd get bitten anyway, whether I picked him up or not. He could not get away. He tried to bite me. I spoke soothing words to him and stroked the front of his chest (between neck and legs). He calmed down. I put him down, and he started biting again. I repeated this, only I held him in my lap longer after he calmed down. After that, the biting spell was broken.

He was not hurt, he was not scared, and at first he struggled to bite me, not to get away.

I came up with this idea because when I had toddlers who had tantrums, that was one way suggested in books to deal with them: Hold the child in your lap and wrap your arms around them and hold them tightly until they calm down.

It worked with Aidan, just like it worked with my kids. He hasn't gotten overstimulated in play since then, but he will. This is not a cure! Well, maybe it is, if he doesn't like being held like that and figures out the link -- but he didn't dislike this.

Aidan gets a lot of attention, and since he seemed to like this, I have started spending time with him doing nothing but sitting or lying beside him, or putting him in my lap, and petting him. I focus on him and speak soothingly to him during those times, too. He likes that! He's not super cuddly, but he sure likes this.

What worked with our collie when he was a puppy was to put a drop of clove oil on the places he bit -- tops of shoes, tops of hands. He didn't like the odor. His breeder suggested this. The house and the people smelled of clove oil, which I did not like. It has to be reapplied often. I haven't tried that with Aidan because we don't have an ongoing problem of him trying to herd us by nipping, and I dislike the odor.


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## K8erTot

firefighter and RoughCollie:

Thanks much for your suggestions. Like Aidan, our pup just gets more excited when we yelp. And usually it's not a pretend yelp--she bites down so hard that her mommy genuinely yelps out of pain! Others have also suggested the Cesar Milan approach of touching the dog behind the ear. This definitely doesn't work with her and she thinks it's just a big game of tag. 

I like the idea of holding her. I tried something similar a couple of weeks ago where I held her very close to me, made sure I was calm, and soothingly rubbed her fur in circular motions. It actually did break the biting spell for a few times that I used it, but when I tried it another time, she thrashed and kicked at me so hard that I had scratches all over my stomach and they were lightly bleeding. This of course just got ME worked up, and she was revved up and crazy all over again. Perhaps I shouldn't have given up on that tactic so early, though, and it's certainly worth another shot. I know she bites because she wants our attention and she wants to play with us, so maybe if I can divert her desire for attention into the kind of attention I want to give her, it will help. Like Aidan, too, she's not much of a cuddler, but she does always want to be close. I think it's in her nature to be independent but just close enough to soak up the love. 

And the bite deterrent sprays and solutions--the bitter apple spray does work sometimes, but what's more effective to keep her off the furniture is the Nature's Miracle Pet Block. My weird, non-scientific theory is that the alcohol makes the bitter apple dry up more quickly than the Nature's Miracle, making it less effective. Like you, though, I hate the smell of that stuff; it's nauseating and I don't want it on my hands and feet. 

The next time she gets worked up (I'm giving it about two hours!) I'm going to go back to the holding approach and try to be consistent with it. I'll keep you updated on the progress!


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## firefighter225

Well good luck with everything...
I know it is frustrating and can be painfull...my hands and my wifes hands were raw for a while. 
i hope that way works, 
Just like kids, there is no one approch that works for every puppy. 

one of my friends did another thing...
when he was bit, he would grab the muzzle and role the dogs lips into its mouth and press them against the dogs teath... I guess the dog would find out how painfull it was and let go and he eventualy stoped bitting hard...I didnt want to do that cuz it kinda sounded cruel...

Again good luck


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## ari72

When I got my puppy, he did similar as well. He has since learned that there is a way to wrestle with mommy that won't hurt and he's very good about it now. For the most part for me and Lucky, "yelping" worked.
A suggestion I have which may sound somewhat cruel but it very well may work...try making your hands/arms taste unpalatable by rubbing some hot sauce on them. Not a lot, just enough to give her a little tiny jolt of the heat. 
My puppy does not like getting wet at all...so the best way I have discovered in which to discipline unwanted behavior is to keep a spray bottle filled with water close by. Usually all it takes is for him to just see the water bottle and he calms himself down.
Good luck and hopefully you will find what works best for you and your puppy!


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## stacey101

Like mentioned about actually saying 'ouch' really does help. When puppies play they learn to interact properally with each other and how far is too far play fighting. If one puppy nipped too hard they will yelp , and the puppy bitting will stop. Same thing goes for human interaction.


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## doxiemommy

This is completely normal! Have you read the sticky "The Bite Stops Here"?

My guess, after reading the list of all the things you've tried, is that you have confused your puppy. You tried something, didn't get the results you wanted quickly enough, so you abandoned that and tried something else. Then THAT didn't really work either, so you tried something else, and so on, and so on.

You're trying to teach your puppy something, and learning takes time, patience, consistency and repetition. So, the best thing to do is pick a method, and stick with it, not just for a week or two before switching to a different method, but for as long as it takes.

Here's a basic plan that ties into the info you'll read in "The Bite Stops Here":
- puppy bites, you make a loud noise with your voice. (Some people make a high pitched yelp, like a puppy would do if it's paw got stepped on. However, some puppies get even more hyper from high pitched noises, so some people prefer a low, loud, "ouch". ) The noise is supposed to get your puppy's attention and let them know you didn't like that.
- puppy will most likely bite again, immediately. Make the noise again, and this time, leave the room for 20-30 seconds. Don't leave for longer than that, as your puppy will get bored, and find something else to do, and they won't make the connection that the biting is why you left. They won't learn from it.
- come back. Puppy will probably bite again. Start over with just making the noise.
- puppy will probably bite again, so make the noise, and leave for 20-30 seconds.

Yes, this is a hassle. If you're sitting, playing with your puppy, you could have to leave the room 15 times or more, depending on your puppy and how long you want to play. But, if you even let one time go by without reacting according to this plan, she'll continue to bite, since she knows that sometimes she can get away with it.

With Harper, it took 4 solid weeks of doing the same thing over and over again. With Abby, 1.5 weeks, with Oliver, about 3 weeks....


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## Bordermom

I've also done the roll the lips on the teeth trick. I start with a calm puppy and work on handling - I touch toes, ears, tail, and mouth. I am gentle but don't stop or avoid areas either. When/if puppy starts to get mouthy and bites, I roll that lip in and over the teeth and let them decide if they still must chomp down. If you've ever seen dogs/puppies on their own and one bites too hard, the reaction is often a good 'telling off' with snarls and growls from the dog who got bit - sometimes scary for some to see but you can bet that the pup will think about it before trying it again too.

Lana


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## Kaname1

You have been given some good advice already. I personally wanted to offer some encouragement.
Our dog was just like yours. It seemed to me as if I had opened the thread a couple of years ago when my dog was a puppy. 

She wouldn't stop biting as well, no matter what we tried. 
And I tried all of the things you've listed. 
The soda can filled with coins worked... only for one day, though, then she wasn't affected by the noise anymore. 
Yelping "Ouch" made her more excited than ever and she nipped harder. 
Walking away resulted into her biting our feet.
And when we left her alone in a room, she just went to do something else. 

So, as you can see, I can totally understand your problem and your fears. 

What I really wanted to tell you is that our dog in fact outgrew this behaviour. At about 6 1/2 months, she suddenly stopped. I don't know why or what method worked or if anything has actually worked. But one day, when she bit too hard and I cried out "Ouch", she backed off. From that moment on, I could "wrestle" with her without the fear of being hurt. She knew excactly how hard she could bite and we had soo much fun together. We could even play role-plays with me and my siblings being evil robbers who she had to chase. If she ever got too excited, you only had to say "Calm down a bit" and she did. (Yeah, I know, it's probably crazy to actually play such role-plays with your dog... xD) 

Anyway, she stopped one day. And I'm positive that your dog will, too, sooner or later. Keep trying to teach her, but don't get too upset. It takes time. 

-Sandra


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## Greater Swiss

It does sound like you've tried lots of stuff, although you have to remember it takes at least overnight for things to start to sink in, so I hope you've tried each method for a few days at least. 

One thing you could do is something I did with Caeda so I could wipe her "eye boogers" (she gets them constantly). I usually have a bag of treats nearby everywhere in the house and I'd randomly walk up to her, tell her to sit and kneel in front of her. The first several times I showed her a treat and wouldn't let her have it until after I got to a certain point in wiping her eye (closer each time). I would reach towards her face with my hand, if she turned her head to bite at me (and she did this a lot in the beginning), I would stop say no, or hey, and show her the treat again. While she was fixated on the treat I would continue to do this until I got to touch her face. Did this over several sessions until I could successfully wipe one eye. Progressed on to do the next in the same way. It took a week or so, but I now don't have to use treats unless she is in hard play mode, then I usually just have to say "hey" continue on, and I still give her a treat occasionally to continue to reinforce. 

You could do this kind of thing, just aiming for handling your dog in ways that might make her prone to nip or bite at you. It MIGHT transfer into playtiime at least a bit. I found after doing the above with Caeda, just for the purpose of trying to wipe her eyes, she got less prone to attacking my hands. It set up the scenario so that she really got the idea across that if she bit me she wasn't getting the treat. It made general handling of her face much easier. I did it a bit so she would let me look at her teeth, though I haven't done it quite enough yet. 

Just a suggestion....good luck! Remember it does take time, even though it is frustrating!


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## hanksimon

I have a bad habit of repeat what Doxie says 

I know you've tried yelping, but I've included some more details to explain how and why:

Tweaks to The Bite Stops Here:
1. When the pup bites, then yelp. It should sound about like what the pup does when you step on its paw...
don't step on her paw for a sample . When you yelp, the pup should startle briefly and stop nipping. Praise and pet. she'll bite. If you don't get the momentary startle, try saying Ouch! or Yelping louder.
2. When she bites the second time, Yelp. When she stops, praise and pet. She'll nip again, although it may be a little gentler. ...
3. When she bites a third time, Yelp (see a pattern?). But this time, turn your back for 15 - 30 secs. If she comes around and play bows or barks, then that is an apology. Accept it, praise and pet... and cringe in expectation of the next nip... [Accepting the apology is important, because it starts a two-way communication with feedback.]
4. When she bites the 4th time, Yelp, then leave the area, placing her in a 2 min. time-out. It is better if you can leave, rather than moving her. Then, return and interact. (She's still hungry...)
5. When she nips the fifth time, yelp, and leave the area, stopping interaction for now.

Pups need to sleep over night in order to learn their lessons. So, keep doing this for 3 days. By the third day, you should notice signficant Bite Inhibition. She may still nip, but it will be softer and she won't draw blood. Keep up the training and make sure that everyone yelps.... Very powerful method.

If you learn the technique, then you can apply the "yelp" to other circumstances, also. I believe that "yelp" is "Please don't do that, I don't like it." in dog communication.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

An unconventional thing I had to do with my biter (she was the worst puppy biter I've ever encountered) was sit on the counter out of her reach after yelping and ignoring. She would be able to see me up there but not be able to reach me. When she was done spazzing, I'd come back down. If she bit again I'd go back up leaving her with whatever appropriate toy she has. It drove her crazy that she couldn't reach me, so she quickly learned that biting me was the cause of not being able to reach me and she finally stopped.


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