# Dog food with larger kibble



## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

I currently have Charlie on a rotational kibble diet. I've rotated between various flavors of TOTW, FROMM, and Dr. Tim's. He tends to eat very quickly so I've started to feed his breakfast in his KONG Genius Mike, plus it keeps him occupied while I get ready for work. The only problem is that the kibble is quite small and falls out more easily than I'd like. I know that Orijin has larger kibble that would probably work well, but it's a bit more than I'd like to spend. I could probably purchase a small bag and mix it in with his other food so that some pieces take him longer to get out than others...

Does anyone else feed meals using the Kong genius toys and if so, what food do you use? Any tips?


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## Kyle071785 (Nov 28, 2013)

I used to use the basic Kong products for Jax (and still do occasionally) but don't have any first hand experience with the Genius line. 

I know you can try Acana (Orijen sister company) as they have larger kibble and are on par with TotW (price wise) for most of their line (I just switched Jax from TotW to Acana and they were the same price at my shop).

other than the standard add some liquid/freeze it/use peanut butter, I can't really offer much advice


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

I was wondering about Acana actually! So the kibble size is comparable to Orijen?

I've found it interesting that everyone always mentions that ACANA and TOTW are in the same price range, but everywhere I've found both brands there's about a $20 difference. For example, on Chewy.com the ACANA Wild Prairie is on sale for $65 from $78 for a 26lb bag, while TOTW High Prairie is on sale for $44 from $62 for a 30lb bag. That seems like a significant difference to me, although it's certainly a much bigger leap to go from TOTW to Orijen. I might give Acana a shot in the next rotation just to see how he does on it. 

I'm nervous about putting anything too messy in the kong genius because I find them much harder to clean than traditional kongs.


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## Kyle071785 (Nov 28, 2013)

I can just speak from my pet stores prices here in Ontario...if you're in the US though, Acana _might_ be a bit more because its made in Canada so they have to account for shipping costs, etc (I really don't know  )

TotW (US made) is also a bit more than you mentioned up here so I guess it all evens out

Anyways, my Aunt's dog is on the Orijen (various) and Jax is now on the Acana Pacifica and the kibble is the same size from what I can tell


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

Interesting! I guess that could definitely account for the price difference. I've seen their prices compared several times now on the forum and was always surprised because I just haven't found their prices to be comparable locally. They have both brands at my nearest pet store, but a 26lb bag of ACANA is at least $70, and this store never puts anything on sale. The TOTW is more expensive there too so I've stuck to buying online. Charlie does fine on TOTW and the price is good so I've kept it in the rotation, but I don't like that it's manufactured by Diamond so that's always in the back of my mind when feeding it vs FROMM or Dr. Tim's.

I'd honestly never considered kibble size being an issue until now! I was appreciating the smaller size to throw in my training treat bag.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

Percurean Now! Large breed grain free adult has chunks the size of the last segment of my pinkie finger! They are awesome for kings and waggles.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

The bag of Farmina I tried had the largest kibble size that I've seen. The price was less than Acana but more than TOTW.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Shell said:


> The bag of Farmina I tried had the largest kibble size that I've seen. The price was less than Acana but more than TOTW.


Yeah, I was thinking that. Those kibbles are massive!


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

Willowy said:


> Yeah, I was thinking that. Those kibbles are massive!



The Farmina kibble is the size of a Mentos candy. I wouldn't say massive but much larger than others. It is an excellent food as well. Compared to Acana and Fromm, in particular, substantially more animal ingredients and better made.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

what's wrong with your dog eating quickly? sounds likes he likes what you're feeding.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

doggiepop said:


> what's wrong with your dog eating quickly? sounds likes he likes what you're feeding.


Yes, he does like his food (he really likes any food), but I like the idea of using the Kong Genius to make him slow down a bit and keep him entertained and thinking. I still plan on feeding his dinner in his normal bowl.

I'm planning to purchase Farmina for his next rotation! I remember reading the Farmina thread when it first came out and then completely forgot about the brand. I'll definitely give it a try, thanks for the recommendation!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I work at a shelter where we use donated food so I see a lot of different kibbles! Science diet (not sure if that's a no go for you) has big kibbles. Farmina also. Natural balance has large diameter ones but they're flat, not sure if that matters. Chicken soup large breed is relatively big. Wellness core is shaped like little diamonds but they're decently sized.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

doggiepop said:


> what's wrong with your dog eating quickly? sounds likes he likes what you're feeding.


A dog eating too quickly could possibly cause bloat,choking,& other issues:


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

i switch brands of food often. currently i have 3 different bags of food open.he may have brand A in the am and brand B in the pm. 
i fit brand C in wherever i can. 

you didn't answer why you want your dog to slow down when eating? i don't give much thought to how fast my dog eats.



doggiepop said:


> what's wrong with your dog eating quickly? sounds likes he likes what you're feeding.





pinksand said:


> Yes, he does like his food (he really likes any food), but I like the idea of using the Kong Genius to make him slow down a bit and keep him entertained and thinking. I still plan on feeding his dinner in his normal bowl.
> 
> I'm planning to purchase Farmina for his next rotation! I remember reading the Farmina thread when it first came out and then completely forgot about the brand. I'll definitely give it a try, thanks for the recommendation!


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

if a dog was eating in the wild is how fast they eat regulated? i'm going to time how long it takes my dog to eat.
after i post how long it took my dog to eat i want you an anyone else tell me if my dog is eating to fast or to slow. lol.



JazzyTheSiberian said:


> A dog eating too quickly could possibly cause bloat,choking,& other issues:


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

doggiepop said:


> if a dog was eating in the wild is how fast they eat regulated? i'm going to time how long it takes my dog to eat.
> after i post how long it took my dog to eat i want you an anyone else tell me if my dog is eating to fast or to slow. lol.


Dogs don't eat kibble in the wild so I'm not sure that comparison is viable. In the wild it naturally takes more time to tear apart meat, chew it up, etc. When charlie was very young his fast eating caused stomach upset. You would hear lots of loud digestive sounds and he often threw up. Changing his food helped a bit as well as cutting back his meal size and supplementing during training sessions. He doesn't seem to have trouble now but fast eating has been said to cause gastrointestinal problems and less nutrient absorbtion so I don't see any harm in slowing him down. He likes a good challenge and using toys like this keep his brain occupied and stimulated. 

I don't see what's wrong with wanting to slow him down?


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

A&W said:


> Of the few things an owner can do to limit bloat risk, slowing a dog down is the most important by far. There is also evidence kibble 3 cm and greater lowers the risk of bloat substantially.


Interesting! I actually didn't know that a larger kibble size had that benefit. Thanks for the info!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

A&W said:


> Of the few things an owner can do to limit bloat risk, slowing a dog down is the most important by far. *There is also evidence kibble 3 cm and greater lowers the risk of bloat substantially.*


 Interesting. . .do you have a link to the evidence? I wonder how they got that evidence because not even Farmina is that big (and that's the biggest I've seen)!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Willowy said:


> Interesting. . .do you have a link to the evidence? I wonder how they got that evidence because not even Farmina is that big (and that's the biggest I've seen)!


Yeah, 3 cm is a little more than an inch. I've never seen kibble anywhere even close to an inch in diameter.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I remember the NOW! large breed being huuuugee. Jackson is a little dog but has always liked bigger kibble and even he wouldn't take a crack at it LOL. 

Farmina is definitely one of the bigger kibbles I've seen for sure. Acana and Orijen are decently sized but still not as big as Farmina.

fromm is probably the tiniest kibble.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

There's royal canin kibble that comes in this shape

http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Canin-B...85&sr=8-2&keywords=royal+canin+dog+food+boxer

this is by far the largest kibble I've ever seen.

and you can always try out the maze bowl
http://www.amazon.com/Northmate-101...UTF8&qid=1408538630&sr=8-5&keywords=maze+bowl

or make one of these

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/60094976252691388/


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

> The 3 cm size came out of the Purdue studies as a way to lower risk.


LOL. . .I'm not just being argumentative, but some of the things in the Purdue study made me wonder where they found foods like that to study. Like they said not to feed a food that has citric acid in the top 5 ingredients. . .I've never seen a food like that! And to feed a kibble with 3 cm diameter, I've never seen a kibble like that! They don't give examples so I really wonder what they're talking about. 

Anyhoo, I'm in a US Post office right now (on break) and I couldn't find one thing with metric on it, can you believe it? Not on any of our rulers or measuring tapes or anything. Finally found it on the paper cutter. A quarter is just about exactly 2 cm, which is just under an inch. 3 cm is almost 1 1/2 inches. Half-dollar size? I don't have a half-dollar around for comparison but I think so. (Googled it: yep, a half-dollar is 3.06 cm). That would be a ridiculously large kibble.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

A&W said:


> Farmina has a Maxi size kibble that is available in the Ancient Grain formulas. It is the size of a quarter. I got a sample. It is really nice for the large dogs, I would say 75lbs and up. Would be fantastic for all the bloat prone breeds like German Shepherds, Great Danes, etc. A Labrador breeder I know said DogFoodDirect.com and PetFoodEtc.com have it in Chicken Ancient Grain in 26lbs bags.
> 
> The 3 cm size came out of the Purdue studies as a way to lower risk.
> 
> ...


Ah, so it is kind of a specialty shape which wouldn't be found in most brands of kibble or something one would just come across without seeking it out. It makes sense as far as slowing down the dog's eating and getting them to chew the food being beneficial, but it seems that using a slow feeder would be a lot simpler and allows people to use a far wider variety of foods to find ones that suit their dog.

Although, I grabbed a quarter and my metric ruler and it measured at 2.4 cm in diameter (officially it is 2.426 cm). Huge compared to most kibble but still smaller than 3 cm. I looked at the Farmina but didn't see a "maxi" size.



> Anyhoo, I'm in a US Post office right now (on break) and I couldn't find one thing with metric on it, can you believe it? Not on any of our rulers or measuring tapes or anything.


What, you don't have a bunch of products left over from that annoying government flirtation with the metric system? (I like metric, I just hate having to convert work done in metric back into imperial units and have everything still add up correctly)


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

A&W said:


> You need Facebook!!! The bag pictures are on there. There are three kibble sizes, Mini, Medium Universal and Maxi.


Yeah, sorry that I'm not "ra-ra-ra Farmina" enough to follow them on facebook 

I was just pointing out that at either of the links you mentioned regarding Farmina, I couldn't find any mention or selection option for kibble size nor was there any size selection when I had previously ordered it.
The only references on their website I found for mini vs maxi was in the grain-free puppy formulas and since it seemed to be connected to dog size rather than kibble size, it isn't exactly obvious if the maxi size puppy kibble is larger than the adult formula or not anyway. 

Which is all really neither here nor there if there is a particular benefit to the 3 cm + size kibble if the Farmina is the size of a quarter anyway (< 3cm). I think the adult chicken Farmina I tried was about the size of a penny, so larger than usual but not excessively.


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

Here's pic of farmina chicken & ancestral grain next to Totw high prairie


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Anyone know why kibble manufacturers wouldn't just -make- larger kibbles in general? I hear all this talk about how it's better for the dog's teeth, reduced bloat risk, etc- so why aren't the manufacturers following the trend?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

ireth0 said:


> Anyone know why kibble manufacturers wouldn't just -make- larger kibbles in general? I hear all this talk about how it's better for the dog's teeth, reduced bloat risk, etc- so why aren't the manufacturers following the trend?


Interesting question. I can think of some hypothetical reasons--
Cost to change manufacturing equipment; wouldn't be worth it unless they were sure to sell either a lot more food or for higher prices 
All-Life-Stages food is basically "puppy" food (suitable for puppies and nursing mothers) so larger kibble might not be appealing to people with small breed dogs or small/medium breed puppies.
Different cooking and drying times? 
Potentially more breakage in the bag. Small spherical kibble is pretty sturdy getting shaken around in a bag but larger flatter kibble (more disc like) would probably have more breakage and crumbs which people may not like.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

Thanks for the photo of the size comparison KuroSaya! I think that Farmina kibble will be the perfect size. 

I'm so curious about all of these questions coming up. I've never put so much consideration into kibble size before. It seems that smaller kibble would be more digestible, but I guess that if large kibble forces them to chew it into smaller pieces it makes sense that this would be better for digestion. Would it cause more problems though if the dog still didn't chew the food and wolfed down the larger pieces?


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Fwiw, Fromm gave me this response a while back about why their kibbles are so small:



> Thank you for your email and in choosing Fromm Family Foods.
> 
> The kibble in the Gold line (all recipes) are very close to the same size, very little difference if any. The Grain-Free recipes of Four Star line are very small kibble (about the size of a pencil top eraser).
> 
> ...



I don't know which 'side' I fall on. I will say, it kind of freaks me out when Jackson has puked (from some other issue, like eating something outside or whatever) and in the puke, the Farmina kibble is so large, and still undigested. It comes back up looking like it went in LOL. I know I hear him crunch when he eats. But I guess he swallows more than I think? I dunno... either way, it sort of makes me... uncomfortable thinking about those large pieces just sitting in his little stomach. But what do I know lol.


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

Companies are making smaller kibbles now compared to years ago because they can make them cheaper and faster this way. Those are the only reasons. 

Years back most kibbles were much, much larger and irregular in shape, the chunk-style kibbles.

Dogs can digest large pieces of fresh bone and connective tissue like tendons, Fromm's story is BS. It is all economics. 

And by the way, all dog kibble sold in the US must be heated to a certain temperature by law to be considered safe for packaging. More BS from Fromm.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

Another thing that might be relevant is my TOTW is High Prairie PUPPY, which is actually ever so slightly smaller than the Fromm kibble. This is his last bag of puppy food since he'll be a year old.... YESTERDAY! Ah, I missed it! I'm assuming the puppy kibble might be a bit smaller. Does anyone know if that's the case?


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

BennySimpson said:


> Companies are making smaller kibbles now compared to years ago because they can make them cheaper and faster this way. Those are the only reasons.
> 
> Years back most kibbles were much, much larger and irregular in shape, the chunk-style kibbles.
> 
> ...


Meh *shrugs* I like Fromm a lot. They've been doing it right for a really long time and I think they're a trustworthy company. A lot of their Four Star formulas are too pea heavy for my liking but either way, I like them and trust them. It may just be their BELIEF. Doesn't necessarily mean it's right or wrong per say. Like I said, any large kibble Jackson has eaten that he has ever thrown up for whatever reason (him throwing up doesn't happen often), it will come out exactly like it went in, even a day later or if he hasn't eaten for 12+ hours. When he was eating smaller kibbles, it wasn't the case. Again, I'm not saying either way is right or wrong, just my personal experience. In general, Jax actually prefers large kibble. But man he eats Fromm Beef like crack. lol

Fwiw, that response was from about 2 1/2 years ago. No idea if their philosophy still pertains or not. But either way just thought I'd throw it out there.


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## Springer (Feb 19, 2014)

I agree that it is amazing how large the kibble gets in their stomach when it comes back up a few hours later. I wouldn't even want to see what Farmina looks like (& I haven't had the occasion to yet), but I remember TOTW with my last dog was huge when she threw it up. I have 2/3 of a bag of Farmina Cod that I bought 2 weeks ago & both dogs are "over" it, so I guess I won't get anymore. My 12 year old that has become finicky in the last 6 months is chowing down on Fromm Chicken Ala Veg at the moment & the puppy will eat anything. Will have to pawn the Cod off on her. It may be true, but I don't get how larger kibble whole in the stomach would prevent bloat. Less air pockets maybe?


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Meh *shrugs* I like Fromm a lot. They've been doing it right for a really long time and I think they're a trustworthy company. A lot of their Four Star formulas are too pea heavy for my liking but either way, I like them and trust them. It may just be their BELIEF. Doesn't necessarily mean it's right or wrong per say. Like I said, any large kibble Jackson has eaten that he has ever thrown up for whatever reason (him throwing up doesn't happen often), it will come out exactly like it went in, even a day later or if he hasn't eaten for 12+ hours. When he was eating smaller kibbles, it wasn't the case. Again, I'm not saying either way is right or wrong, just my personal experience. In general, Jax actually prefers large kibble. But man he eats Fromm Beef like crack. lol
> 
> *Fwiw, that response was from about 2 1/2 years ago. No idea if their philosophy still pertains or not.* But either way just thought I'd throw it out there.


I may find out very shortly. I just bought a bag of Fromm lamb & lentil four star and was absolutely horrified at how tiny it was, so I emailed them to ask if all of their non-chicken options were so tiny. I've never seen such tiny kibble, and it won't stay in Henry's squirrel dude 

I've always found that the larger kibble is eaten slower, although it may be digested in larger pieces. This tiny stuff it literally inhaled, even from a slow feed bowl.

ETA: they have just responded with the following:
Actually, we do not offer a large kibble and have no plans to increase the size. The reason for that is two fold. First, the size of the kibble is related to our cooking method which uses a slower pace and lower temperature to avoid possible damage to essential proteins and amino acids that can happen in a flash or intense heating process needed for large kibble. Second is that smaller kibble pieces are better for a pet's digestive system as it processes easier for them. 
Oh well, looks like we're changing to Farmina - shame because I really liked Fromm.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

So weird. At work (shelter using donated food) I HATE larger kibble because its so much harder to stuff into the treat balls quickly, and harder to mix with canned for the dogs that eat canned.

All of my 3 have to eat certain foods so i dont even get to change it up or take advantage of sales anymore


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

well my chow hound pooch gained another 8 lbs (thats a total of 138 mind you)... I dpnt think kibble size is really going to help- hes adult so thinking a chicken leg quarter and some liver and organs twice a week, and thats it for him.....

sorry to digress


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