# So, last week I took Willow to a groomer...



## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

Willow is scared to death of getting her nails done. I've tried doing it myself, but I'm too afraid that her squirming while I'm trying to aim at her nails with a clipper can only equal injury, and encourage her fear. And so, I decided to take her to a groomer. He was a middle-aged man, with his own little business, and seemed like he was the only one working there. I went to him because he was the cheapest I could find, and boy, did I not get what I paid for...

I called him ahead of time and he told me the fee to get a small dog's nails done was eight dollars. I bring her to the guy, and she threw a fit. She was a little scared to go into the place, but I managed to get her in. I hand her over to him, and he plops her on a little table, puts her into this dinky harness, and then the jumping begins. She practically hung herself from jumping off the table. I hid somewhere in the little store so she couldn't see me, but she whimpered and struggled the ENTIRE time. Half hour later, he brings her over to me with her harness falling off... I was upset about this because he's knowledgeable about dogs, yet he gives her back to me with her harness unsafely falling off. I walk up to him and I expect to pay eight dollars, (after fixing her harness myself, of course) and he charges me 50% extra for the struggle she put up, so I ended up paying $12...and I felt bad for the struggle Willow put up, so I gave him a $2 tip (I read somewhere that you're supposed to tip the groomer or something,) and I kinda regret it... Is it normal to be charged extra? Anyhoo, within the next week I'm going to bring her to PetSmart, where I know the fee is ten dollars and they won't charge me extra for Willow's struggling...I know this for a fact because I asked them on the phone and the lady acted like I was crazy for asking. 

Oh, and did I mention that he didn't do her back paws and dew claws? Oh, and he used a dremel? It didn't even do a good job, and within the next week (now this week) it's as if I never even spent the fourteen dollars. I'm very upset about what happened, but I'm going to try and see what happens at PetSmart. I've tried other local groomers but they don't pick up the phone or call back when I leave my name my number, so I'm not going to give them my money.

Sorry for the rant... I was really frustrated because that was my first time ever bringing Willow to the groomer's, and I just kinda wanted to know if anyone had any similar experiences or if anyone could tell me what I can do. Also, if there is a way I can safely clip my dogs nails myself, I'd be glad to know. Thanks.


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## SMoore (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm sorry for your frustration. I have never heard of charging extra but many dogs do freak out for nail trims.

The only thing I can suggest is to bring the dog in more often, even weekly if needed. I used to tell people if they come weekly i'd only charge them every few times. it makes my job easier by the dog getting used to it and if a dog is coming in weekly not much will need to be taken off anyway.

I always use a dremel unless the nails are so long then i cut first and dremel after, if the dog will tolerate it. 

He probably would have done better with some help, it's a shame he was the only person in there. I hope you have luck finding someone else to do it. Once you find someone you like maybe stick with the same place and even same groomer. It might help the dog feel more comfortable going to the same person.

Also play with your dogs feet when watching tv or during play, just anything to help desensitize that area so that when a groomer grabs the dogs foot for a nail trim it wont be as big of a deal for the dog.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

yeah, when your only thought when looking for a groomer is price, you will more than likely not have a good experiance. if i were you, i would not worry about price. when you call and talk to a groomer, ask them what their skills are, what they do with difficult or scared dogs, etc. 

charging extra for nails when the dog is bad is not unheard of or ridiculous in my opinion. petco and petsmarts are obligated to charge special handling fees anytime a dog takes longer than the procedure required or if the dog needs more than one person to do the job (thus taking more time away from the company and employees). if a dog is good, a nail trim takes 5 minutes, which is why its only 8 bucks. if your dog took the guy a 1/2 hour, then i dont know why you would expect the same fee. however, the groomer should have told you ahead of time what the price quote would be, and should have included the special handling fee on there. But you should understand that we work on commission, and that guy got 4 bucks for a halfhours work. i am glad he charged you more, and i probably would have too (i would have told you about the extra fee before i started the dog though). 

the tip is totally and completely up to you. do you tip in a restaurant if your service was terrible? neither do i. so why should you tip a groomer you werent satisfied with? only tip when it is deserved, and that goes for any service. one reason i dont go out to eat very often is b/c these people almost expect your tip. tips are not an expectation, they are a reward for hard work. i work in a boarding kennel, most of my clients are dogs boarding there. i very very rarely get tips b/c most of the dogs get dropped off by us at the owners home, so they dont usually meet me in person. but that does not bother me, b/c i dont expect tips. yes they are really nice and i appreciate it, but i would never expect a tip from someone just b/c their dog was bad and i had to put up with it. not all dogs are perfect angels, and part of my job is to work with the difficult ones just as well as i do the good ones. sure, if you feel its deserving then go ahead and tip me for dealing with the dog. but dont do it just b/c. do it b/c you feel the job was worth the extra money. 

but if he didnt do the back paws, or dewclaws, then he should NOT have charged you a special handling fee. I'll also include that i very rarely have a dog that i cant do the nails on. there are a million different ways to get a dog to let you clip the nails, which most pro groomers will know. i would have never charged you full price if i couldnt get the nails done. it really doesnty make sense, b/c after doing this for many years, i can tell you that dogs, even the ones who dont lke their nails done, are always better for the back feet. honestly, even though i think he was right in charging you a special handling fee for the time it took, this guy does not sound like he knew what he was doing. 

so ry and petsmart, and hopefully you will have a better experiance. but do know that they DO charge special handling fees. ask them again when you go in just to make sure (some groomers never charge the special handling, which is why the lady you talked to might have said no). but i know quite a few groomers who work for petsmart, and they do have special handling fees, ranging from 15 to 25 dollars extra, dependingh on the size of the dog. 

at home, you need to desenstise her feet so the gromer does not have to truggle everytime the nails are done, and you can start doing the nails yourself. the best way is to use something she loves, food and treats work the best for me. you genly pick up a paw, say paw, when she lets you hold it with no struggle, give her a treat. do this with all four paws, until all you have to do to get her to give you a foot is say paw. once you can hold a foot with no struggle, start adding pressure and sliding your fingers between her toes. again whenever she does this with no struggle, ive her a reward. slowly start bringing clippers into the mix, start by just holding them near her paw, and when she doesnt struggle give her a treat. this work if the dog is realy into food. be sure to dio these things in sessions. also, bringing the dog to a groomer more frequently will help her get opver the fear of going in there. you dont even have to go to get her groomed, lewt her go in, get some love from the groomer, a coule treats, then leave.

as far as dremel goes, most owners prefer the dremel over the clipper. i personally like to just clip the nails and be done with it, i can work much faster with nail clippers. and if the nails are long, it is soooooo mucheasier to clip them off, then dremel whats left if needed. if the dog has long nails, and hates the nails being done in the first place, then a dremel is probably the worst thing for the dog. she needs to get used to her feet being handled first.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Often times the back nails are already to the quick if the dog pushes off their back legs while walking.

A half hour nail trim at the vet's clinic in my area would have run you at least 25$.

Dremeling is an extra service that many groomers charge an additional fee. With all the resistance, I am surprised the groomer put in the extra effort to dremel.

Good luck at PSmart, I hope Willow has a better experience.


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

Thank you all for the replies! I did desensitize Willow quite a bit before clipping her nails. I treated her for touching her nose to the clippers, then treated her for letting me touch her feet with the clippers. When I first tried clipping her nails myself, I was able to get both her back dew claws with no struggle (she was lying on the floor) but as soon as I did an actual nail on her back paw, she jumped. I tried for a week, every day, just to get two or three nails a day. I was able to get two nails a day for a couple days, but it didn't seem like she was getting any better, she just struggled more and more and actually started to yelp. Like I said before, I don't/didn't want to end up hurting her by trying to aim with clippers while she's struggling and hurt her, which led to my decision to bring her to a groomer. I honestly don't have the heart to hold her down with her discomfort and struggling...should I just suck it up and hold her down? I was thinking of wrapping her in a towel or something so she couldn't move.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

before you even try to clip her nails again by yourself, i want you to drop this fear of hurting her. that may be part of the problem. dogs know what people are feeling, especially their owners. if she knows that you are starting to feel sorry for her, she will start fighting more. once you give in, she learns what she needs to do to get you to stop. when im training dogs for nail trims, i only stop when they are good. 

she will be a million times worse for you if you keep feeling bad for her and like you are going to hurt her. when you are doing the nails, dont tell her its ok, or anything like that. keep talking to a minimum, either for rewarding or to say no to undesired behavior (and if they growl or bite, i growl back). once she respects you and realizes it isnt a big deal, she will get better.

if you really cant seem to let go of this fear of hurting her, then i would just let professionals deal with her for a little bit. really talk to the groomer aboutthis, and let them know you want to fix this problem, and are looking for any advice they may have. when you are at petsmart, i would go out into the store and try and watchthroughthe window and see what they do. you might start to feel more confident once you see it done. 

towels work sometimes, but sometimes dogs freak out more. the best strategy is to have someone help you, especially with little dogs. have that person hold/distract the dog, while you cut. try bending her front feet backwards from her face, instead of doing them right in front her face (dogs are usually better when they cant see whats going on). when i do little dogs bymyself who are bad, i stand facing their tail, with my left arm holding the foot up, and their head nestled between my arm pit. thi keeps them from moving and from biting me. and the cant see what im doing.


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

Thank you so much Purple for the advice! I've already acknowledged many times that Willow knows how I feel, and that if I'm afraid of hurting her that she'll take advantage of it, but I still have a hard time getting over my fear. I will try what you've told me, and when I take her to the groomer again on Wednesday I will ask all I need to ask, and get her nails done, and try to get her used to it and over her fear. When would be the best time to try to do her nails? Should I bring her into a small, quiet room? Or should I just do it in front of the tv? How should I position her when I have help?


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

I agree with Purple. I've been a groomer 7 years and that's one of my first pieces of advise I give to owners. Be confident and take her more often. Find a cozy groom shop if you can, not one with lots of craziness going on. I would call ahead and let the groomer know whats up. And it is BEST that your baby doesnt see you, then she will know you can't recue her. GOOD LUCK!!


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

JLWillow said:


> Thank you so much Purple for the advice! I've already acknowledged many times that Willow knows how I feel, and that if I'm afraid of hurting her that she'll take advantage of it, but I still have a hard time getting over my fear. I will try what you've told me, and when I take her to the groomer again on Wednesday I will ask all I need to ask, and get her nails done, and try to get her used to it and over her fear. When would be the best time to try to do her nails? Should I bring her into a small, quiet room? Or should I just do it in front of the tv? How should I position her when I have help?


If you're feeling afraid, your dog will feel afraid. You need to get over this! There's nothing to fear! But, if you can't, then let a professional do Willow's nails - they're not all like that guy you went to! Check your vet - my vet clinic does nails for $8. 

I have 4 dogs. I use a dremmel, and it takes all of 3-5 minutes for each dog. I make them lay down on the grooming table for me, so it's easier for me (because of their size - 3 are Standard Poodles, 1 is a Shih Tzu). Most of them take a nap whenever I have them get up on the grooming table! lol I COULD do it on the sofa, etc., but I prefer to have a routine for them. When it's grooming time, that means it's grooming time and no nonsense, because it's gonna happen, so get over it! lol (I'm really kinder than that sounds. I gradually condition my dogs to having things done to them, so they readily accept even what they don't really like.)


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

poodleholic said:


> If you're feeling afraid, your dog will feel afraid. You need to get over this! There's nothing to fear! But, if you can't, then let a professional do Willow's nails - they're not all like that guy you went to! Check your vet - my vet clinic does nails for $8.
> 
> I have 4 dogs. I use a dremmel, and it takes all of 3-5 minutes for each dog. I make them lay down on the grooming table for me, so it's easier for me (because of their size - 3 are Standard Poodles, 1 is a Shih Tzu). Most of them take a nap whenever I have them get up on the grooming table! lol I COULD do it on the sofa, etc., but I prefer to have a routine for them. When it's grooming time, that means it's grooming time and no nonsense, because it's gonna happen, so get over it! lol (I'm really kinder than that sounds. I gradually condition my dogs to having things done to them, so they readily accept even what they don't really like.)


I wouldn't say my fear is so awful that I can't control it. I'm fairly good at controlling myself and I can be calm and assertive, etc, etc. For example, she doesn't like bathes, but I make her do it anyway, and she does, and there really isn't any way for me to hurt her while bathing her. But with nail clipping, there is a chance that I can hurt her, and that is why I am so cautious. Should I just hold her down until she stops squirming, and then reward her? Would that be a good start?


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

JLWillow said:


> I wouldn't say my fear is so awful that I can't control it. I'm fairly good at controlling myself and I can be calm and assertive, etc, etc. For example, she doesn't like bathes, but I make her do it anyway, and she does, and there really isn't any way for me to hurt her while bathing her. But with nail clipping, there is a chance that I can hurt her, and that is why I am so cautious. Should I just hold her down until she stops squirming, and then reward her? Would that be a good start?


No, don't hold her down. Restrain her, yes..but don't hold her down. When you hold a dog down, they will fight forever, and not learn a thing. They just keep fighting against YOU. When they are restrained...tied to a wall close, etc..they are fighting THEMSELVES, and actually learn its useless and give up and then they remember the lesson the next time. 

As a groomer, I have had MANY dogs like yours to trim nails on, and every single one of them stands perfect now. Only takes one or two times. A few of these dogs were having to be sedated by the VET! Thats crazy! And I do nails by myself, and find that having someone else to restrain the dogs just makes them fight harder. And yes, I would say it is common for a "handling" fee, not just on nail trims, but grooms as well. However, you should have been told this beforehand. 

Here's what I suggest you do it you want to trim them at home. Put a sturdy eyescrew in a stud in your garage wall, at the level of her collar. Put a collar on her that will NOT slip off if she thrashes or backs up. Not a chain choker or something dangerous, but a nylon collar that is very snug. Use carbeners and a safety snap to tie her to the wall with just enough room to allow her to be comfortable. NOT enough to turn her head around, or spin. Then you pick up a foot, and you clip the nails. If she screams and flails, you just stop trying to trim, and hold the leg you had until she relaxes. If you release her foot while she's fighting, you teach her to keep fighting..cause you let go. Don't baby talk her, don't be nervous, and when she relaxes, resume the trimming. Within 5 minutes, she will relax and let you do the nails without all the drama going with it.  Your confidance and matter of fact handling for the nails will give her the confidance she needs to accept trims as a matter of life and nothing to fear.


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

Graco22 said:


> No, don't hold her down. Restrain her, yes..but don't hold her down. When you hold a dog down, they will fight forever, and not learn a thing. They just keep fighting against YOU. When they are restrained...tied to a wall close, etc..they are fighting THEMSELVES, and actually learn its useless and give up and then they remember the lesson the next time.
> 
> As a groomer, I have had MANY dogs like yours to trim nails on, and every single one of them stands perfect now. Only takes one or two times. A few of these dogs were having to be sedated by the VET! Thats crazy! And I do nails by myself, and find that having someone else to restrain the dogs just makes them fight harder. And yes, I would say it is common for a "handling" fee, not just on nail trims, but grooms as well. However, you should have been told this beforehand.
> 
> Here's what I suggest you do it you want to trim them at home. Put a sturdy eyescrew in a stud in your garage wall, at the level of her collar. Put a collar on her that will NOT slip off if she thrashes or backs up. Not a chain choker or something dangerous, but a nylon collar that is very snug. Use carbeners and a safety snap to tie her to the wall with just enough room to allow her to be comfortable. NOT enough to turn her head around, or spin. Then you pick up a foot, and you clip the nails. If she screams and flails, you just stop trying to trim, and hold the leg you had until she relaxes. If you release her foot while she's fighting, you teach her to keep fighting..cause you let go. Don't baby talk her, don't be nervous, and when she relaxes, resume the trimming. Within 5 minutes, she will relax and let you do the nails without all the drama going with it.  Your confidance and matter of fact handling for the nails will give her the confidance she needs to accept trims as a matter of life and nothing to fear.


Thank you SO MUCH! I'll try that. I don't know if I'll be able to do it in my garage, though, since my garage is dirty and nasty. I'll have to talk to my parents about screwing something into a wall somewhere in order to do Willow's nails. XD I can't thank you enough! I feel so much better.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> But with nail clipping, there is a chance that I can hurt her, and that is why I am so cautious. Should I just hold her down until she stops squirming, and then reward her? Would that be a good start?


Yes, I can understand that - none of us wants to do harm. I guess I'm just so used to doing nails for years and years, I've gotten pretty good (and sneaky successful) at it. 

No, DON'T hold her down, she'll fight even more. Graco had *great advice*. I go about it differently, so I dont have to do a tie up, but, it can be time consuming (use massage and soothing verbal reassurance), and snip, off comes one nail. Keep it up until they're all done.


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

Well, I come with good news! I brought Willow to the groomer yesterday, and I told the groomer there that Willow is most definitely going to give her a hard time, and will probably need some assistance. She said that that's fine and not to worry about it. I bring Willow to the table and put her up there. I told her, "I've been told that it's best that I leave her alone. Should I leave?" And to my surprise, she told me that sometimes the dog feels safer having the owner around. And I did remember, that last time when I left her alone with the groomer, she cried and cried the entire time, so I figured I'd try and stay there with her. She did SO MUCH BETTER! I couldn't believe it. She was shaky at first, and she did whimper a couple times. She was definitely squirming, but it was no where near as bad as the last time. I helped and I held her. I didn't hold her down or anything, but I was holding her. The groomer did ask for another person to come and help her. It was kinda funny seeing three people helping to get a 19lb dog's nails clipped.  I was really happy, too. She did a good job with her nails, and Willow actually stopped resisting towards the end. And I wasn't charged extra! It was $9 flat. I'm definitely going to go there again. I'm hoping that eventually Willow will calm down more, and I'll ask the groomer to let me take over and guide me with doing her nails once she gets to that point. I'm so relieved!


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Glad things went better today!

I've never seen a dog's nails clipped professionally, but am I correct in thinking that the dog is usually standing up during this procedure? From what has been said here, it sounds that way.

Personally, I prefer to do this on the floor with my dog on her back and her head in my lap. That way I can put my legs on each side of her to steady her body and minimize squirming. I'm not holding her down (she could easily get up if she really wanted), but on her back, my dog calms right down and lays perfectly still. I could trim for 10 minutes if I needed to, but it rarely takes more than 2 or 3. I can't imagine trying to clip nails while my dog was standing up - she would just pull away!


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

Well thats GREAT news! it can only get better from here


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Glad things went better today!
> 
> I've never seen a dog's nails clipped professionally, but am I correct in thinking that the dog is usually standing up during this procedure? From what has been said here, it sounds that way.
> 
> Personally, I prefer to do this on the floor with my dog on her back and her head in my lap. That way I can put my legs on each side of her to steady her body and minimize squirming. I'm not holding her down (she could easily get up if she really wanted), but on her back, my dog calms right down and lays perfectly still. I could trim for 10 minutes if I needed to, but it rarely takes more than 2 or 3. I can't imagine trying to clip nails while my dog was standing up - she would just pull away!


Yeah, they do it while the dog is standing up or sitting. I never thought of putting Willow on her back, so when we become more comfortable with doing it, I'll try that. Thank you for your suggestion. 



MoosMom said:


> Well thats GREAT news! it can only get better from here


Yes, thank you!


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Thats great news. It will only get better and better from here.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Yay! Success. 

My bet is by the 6th time - one person will manage to get her clipped by themseleves.


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