# New Here, Considering a second dog, What breed do you recommend?



## JillieBean (Oct 6, 2013)

Here's some background.
We live in the country on acreage with 2 indoor cats and a 2 year old mutt (equal parts English Foxhound, Labrador, Irish Setter and American Bulldog) named Bruford. We rescued Bruford at 11 weeks old from a great shelter in CT/NY that works with transporting puppies from the south, as many northern shelters do now. The story is that he and his litter mates were surrendered at 5 weeks (meaning they left mom that early) and were in their foster home for 6 weeks. We chose Bruford because he seemed the most laid back and calm. In retrospect, I realize he was just the most afraid in his litter.
While Bruford has been a great dog in our home, he is very fearful of people. He does not have any other irrational fears like I've seen other dogs have, but he is just so afraid of people he does not know. As you probably realize, a fearful dog is an unpredictable dog. Thankfully, he is amazing with children, even ones he does not know well. I think this is probably because children do not have an ego like adults do. They seem to take him for what he is. So many adults are determined to win him over, which only exasperates his fear. As far as adults go, he is far more fearful of men, especially tall men, than he is of women. However, if the stranger has a dog with them, his fears seem to subside because he just loves other dogs so much. I'm sure this is because he lacks confidence and is put at ease when around a confident, balanced dog. Obviously, because of this, we have not been able to do the things with Bruford we were hoping to do with our dog, like take him for walks where there are many people, bring him to stores that will allow him, and just other activities that would require him to NOT be a liability. It's a shame, but we've committed ourselves to him so have learned to accept that this is the type of dog we have.
We've racked our brains for why he could be this way. We were both raised with dogs. DH with Labs and myself with Golden Retrievers. We knew they were typically easier to raise than other dogs, but we had no idea we would run into a problem like this. We definitely educated ourselves before bringing a puppy home, we knew about fear periods and socialization. So many people have suggested that maybe he was abused, but the other puppies in his litter were so outgoing and sweet. Bruford is exceptionally sensitive though.
We hired a behaviorist. She worked with him, and recognized him as a fearful/anxious dog, and said she has rehabilitated dogs like him before, but usually adding another (carefully selected) dog to the house is usually best. She also recognized that he was a great obedience prospect, and said it would help with building his confidence. We enrolled in a puppy kindergarten/beginner obedience class. Bru, in spite of himself, excelled. He never warmed up to the trainer at all, but did end up graduating in first place. I think a combination of all of the other dogs there, plus positive reinforcement got him there. And it was definitely a confidence booster. Now while Bruford starts to get too nervous or afraid, I will do obedience with him. It helps a little but is definitely only part of a solution. The obedience trainer ALSO recommended a second dog.
Of course, we've been working closely with our vet since we adopted him. He needs to be muzzled now when we go. She is great with him though, very kind and understanding. We have tried different medications to help ease his anxiety. We tried a quaalude, as needed type of drug that did nothing for him. Now he is on Prozac daily. It seems to help a little bit, but again, I think this is only part of the solution. Our vet, along with several of her vet techs, have recommended a second dog.
So here we are. We are in a place right now where we can bring a puppy into our home. Right now it's just the 5 of us, no children yet, but I'm sure we will have a baby within the next two years, so a breed who is reliable with children is really important to us. Obviously we also need a breed who is friendly with strangers. Not as high on the list of priorities, but definitely something I want is a dog who is reliable off leash, as we go camping a lot and like to let our dog off lead to run and play with the other dogs, so we also need a breed who gets along with other dogs, and cats too. 
As far as breeds we are considering, I'm still doing a lot of research, but our lifestyle meshes well with sporting dogs. I worry about going to a shelter again though because of our experience. I know we could always adopt an adult, knowing what we're getting, but I worry about predictability with cats and small children. While we don't have children yet, most of our friends do, so a tolerant, predictable dog is a must. Of course we supervise any interactions our friends kids have with Bruford, but a dog will still need to tolerate sudden movements, loud noises and other things that go along with kids.

Also, some people have mentioned that it may not be a good idea to get a puppy, because Bruford could teach the puppy to behave the way he does. I feel like his "quirks" are more innate than learned, and that typically a dog is born either fearful, confident or somewhere in between. What do you think?

(I've attached a few pictures of Bruford, just for fun)


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## Mint (Sep 4, 2013)

Maybe a Bernese Mountain Dog? (Btw, Bruford is awesome!)


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## JillieBean (Oct 6, 2013)

Mint said:


> Maybe a Bernese Mountain Dog? (Btw, Bruford is awesome!)


Aw, thank you! I love BMDs! Awesome dogs, just not crazy about their relatively short life span


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Pointers? 
**** hound?
Springer Spaniel ?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

If the off-leash isn't a deal breaker and/or you're willing to put a very dedicated effort to it, a young adult hound dog would be my suggestion.

Aged maybe 2-4 years old, young enough to be as energetic as your current 2 yr old dog but old enough to have a solid personality set. 

Hounds-- like the black and tan coonhound, redbone coonhound, and those mixes of hound-types common in the south-- tend to be dog friendly, child tolerant, and have easy going personalities. Bloodhounds seem to have a higher tendency towards aggression but the nice thing about an adult dog is a better (not perfect, but better) idea of the dog as an individual than only by breed trait or the absolute toss-up of a mixed breed rescue pup.


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## JillieBean (Oct 6, 2013)

Thank you! Bruford has brought us to love hounds! He is pretty reliable off leash. His recall is decent, and when we're camping and he's loose, he doesn't stray too much. I wouldn't trust him though if he saw an animal. 
I used to work at the SPCA of my county and I've been in touch with my old boss. She has a litter of 8 puppies and their mother coming up in 2 weeks (they're only 2 weeks old now). She understands my situation and the type of dog I'm looking for and said that if I'm interested, I could come see them when I arrive, and have first pick. The mother seems to be a Beagle/Terrier mix and is about 30 lbs. Bruford hoovers just under 50 lbs, so I'd love another dog about his size or smaller. They don't know what the father is with this litter though, and the pictures of them at 2 weeks aren't too clear, but they all have hound markings. I'm going to make another thread to invite peoples' guesses on what their mix is.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I wouldn't suggest a puppy. 

I love rescue dogs and recommend them to many people, but as you've learned, rescue puppies (under 4-5 months especially) are a total toss-up for adult temperament. I think a fearful dog is a combination usually of nature and nurture, as in, a dog inclined to be fearful will take small mishaps/scary incidents harder than a dog inclined to be brave and while both are shaped by their environment, genetics do play a strong part.

I use my very confident, very calm, and very dog-friendly hound dog as a "rehab" dog for fearful or anxious fosters all the time. Most of the fosters I get have some emotional problems when they arrive-- fear, stress, anxiety, reactivity and such--generally due to lack of socializing and over-kennelling/months in a shelter. By walking next to a calm and relaxed dog, by laying near a calm and relaxed dog and by seeing that calm and relaxed dog greet people and go places etc, they learn to do the same thing.


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## JillieBean (Oct 6, 2013)

Shell said:


> I wouldn't suggest a puppy.
> 
> I love rescue dogs and recommend them to many people, but as you've learned, rescue puppies (under 4-5 months especially) are a total toss-up for adult temperament. I think a fearful dog is a combination usually of nature and nurture, as in, a dog inclined to be fearful will take small mishaps/scary incidents harder than a dog inclined to be brave and while both are shaped by their environment, genetics do play a strong part.
> 
> I use my very confident, very calm, and very dog-friendly hound dog as a "rehab" dog for fearful or anxious fosters all the time. Most of the fosters I get have some emotional problems when they arrive-- fear, stress, anxiety, reactivity and such--generally due to lack of socializing and over-kennelling/months in a shelter. By walking next to a calm and relaxed dog, by laying near a calm and relaxed dog and by seeing that calm and relaxed dog greet people and go places etc, they learn to do the same thing.


Thank you. I appreciate your advice and experience with rehabilitating dogs. We are considering all age groups, but because we have cats, a puppy is more likely to learn what is an isn't acceptable with them.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

JillieBean said:


> Thank you. I appreciate your advice and experience with rehabilitating dogs. We are considering all age groups, but because we have cats, a puppy is more likely to learn what is an isn't acceptable with them.


Actually, if you go for an adult you could look for one that is already used to being around cats vs an energetic rambunctious puppy that you'll have to train from scratch. Even then, a puppy may mature to have a high prey drive, whereas with an adult dog you'll already know more or less how they'll react to cats.

We have 2 cats and those are some of the big reasons we are planning on adopting an adult vs a puppy.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ireth0 said:


> Actually, if you go for an adult you could look for one that is already used to being around cats vs an energetic rambunctious puppy that you'll have to train from scratch. Even then, a puppy may mature to have a high prey drive, whereas with an adult dog you'll already know more or less how they'll react to cats.
> 
> We have 2 cats and those are some of the big reasons we are planning on adopting an adult vs a puppy.


Seconded. 

We have 5 dogs. 2 were raised here as puppies, 3 came in as adults (4, and 5 years). Two of those three had never laid eyes on a cat before. The adults are fine with cats. One of the puppies we raised is fine. The third? He came in at < 6 weeks and he's okayish with our cats, or cats in the home (not just our cats, but cats in a house and won't run from him). We absolutely can not and will never leave them unsupervised together, and the cats always have to have an escape route. Cats he encounters outside, or who dash away? They're prey and he would cheerfully rip them apart. 

He was raised with cats from day 1. 

Not saying you can't have a puppy, but don't expect it to guarantee that you will not have a problem between them. If you want that, you need an adult dog whose already demonstrated that it's fine with cats.


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## JillieBean (Oct 6, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Seconded.
> 
> We have 5 dogs. 2 were raised here as puppies, 3 came in as adults (4, and 5 years). Two of those three had never laid eyes on a cat before. The adults are fine with cats. One of the puppies we raised is fine. The third? He came in at < 6 weeks and he's okayish with our cats, or cats in the home (not just our cats, but cats in a house and won't run from him). We absolutely can not and will never leave them unsupervised together, and the cats always have to have an escape route. Cats he encounters outside, or who dash away? They're prey and he would cheerfully rip them apart.
> 
> ...



Thank you. We will consider puppy-young adult, and obviously will be very careful about our choice. I am researching puppy aptitude tests because of course, I have some reservations about a puppy too. I have focused my energy for now, on shelters, especially ones who utilize fosters, because I feel like the foster parent will be about to tell me more about the dog than if it's living in a kennel in a shelter. Thank you all so much for your advice, I definitely appreciate it.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

In addition to previous suggestions, I think it's important to realize that confidence/fearfulness is often an individual thing, not a breed thing. You said yourself that Bru's littermates were more confident than him, and those are full siblings! Any breed that we can suggest will have fearful individuals and confident individuals within it. Instead of getting caught up in general breed traits*, try to view each potential dog as an individual. I think a young adult would be fantastic in your situation for the precise reason that you can easily assess confidence, behavior around cats and kids, etc. Or at least much easier than with an 8wk old puppy.

* Disclaimer: there are important differences between breeds and it's still important to pick a breed (or mix) whose general breed traits fit your wants/needs.


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## JillieBean (Oct 6, 2013)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> In addition to previous suggestions, I think it's important to realize that confidence/fearfulness is often an individual thing, not a breed thing. You said yourself that Bru's littermates were more confident than him, and those are full siblings! Any breed that we can suggest will have fearful individuals and confident individuals within it. Instead of getting caught up in general breed traits*, try to view each potential dog as an individual. I think a young adult would be fantastic in your situation for the precise reason that you can easily assess confidence, behavior around cats and kids, etc. Or at least much easier than with an 8wk old puppy.
> 
> * Disclaimer: there are important differences between breeds and it's still important to pick a breed (or mix) whose general breed traits fit your wants/needs.


I couldn't agree more. Initially I was worried about getting another shelter dog and wanted to go the breeder route. However, the more I thought about the practicality, and of different temperaments I've seen in all breeds, from breeders and shelters alike, the more I began to lean towards a shelter. 
We've been working with a Lab Rescue in CT to find a good match for us and Bruford. They've suggested a 7 month old Lab/Hound mix, female, great with all people and animals, confident and outgoing, calm, especially for a dog her age, and potty trained and partially obedience trained. We have arranged to meet her Sunday at a neutral location, hoping they will hit it off and she will be a good match for us, and vice versa! 
Wish us luck!


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