# Questions about conformation.



## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

So, I've been thinking about possibly getting into conformation with papillons. Obviously, being that my knowledge of conformation is entirely based in the dog shows shown on TV, I have a lot of questions:

Is a lot of travel involved or are there enough shows within an area that you wont have to travel halfway across the country? I'm in NC, is there a chance I wont have to travel farther south than SC, further east than TN, and further north than VA?

How much money do you end up spending on this sport? Show-quality dogs from a breeder are pretty expensive, and I'm assuming there will be a good amount of travel expenses, but just how expensive is it overall?

What are good ways to get started in conformation?

How long does it typically take to get a good eye for the breed? It's one thing to read about the standard, and another to be able to pick out a good dog by eye.

What other things do you think I should know? Any good books or resources you'd recommend for people interested in showing?


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

1) There are plenty of shows in the VA, WV, TN, SC, NC area. I was just at one this past weekend in VA. I go mainly to shows in VA, NC, SC, WV, OH, MD, TN, but sometimes will travel further for a specialty or National. There is a show at the end of this month in Leesburg, VA (Oatlands Plantation) that I will be at. I will also be at the show in Concord, NC November 16-18th. 

2) It all adds up, entry fees, parking (sometimes that is free), travel expenses, actual purchasing of show quality dog, etc. I don't think I have ever actually calculated it all. 

3) Go to shows, talk to people, watch the rings, look for training classes near you (you don't need a show quality dog to go to a class). 

4) It takes years of being in the breed, and seeing examples of quality dogs. 

I will have to get back to you on the last question. I know some books but will have to look them up for the names.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Upcoming shows in various areas, just look for ones that have AB under the type section, those are all breed shows:

http://infodog.com/panels/nc.htm (I also might be going to the winston-salem shows the weekend before the concord shows)
http://infodog.com/panels/va.htm
http://infodog.com/panels/wv.htm
http://infodog.com/panels/tn.htm
http://infodog.com/panels/sc.htm


These list will be updated as time goes by. Also if any shows you go to have a New Exhibitor briefing or Dog Show tours I would utilize them, most premiums/judging programs will say if the show has it and what time. And the clubs usually announce that day if they are having a tour.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

IMO, it can be what you make it. We started out slowly: We had a great dog, but he was young, so we showed him on a limited basis. Most of our traveling was within our state, and close enough to home to not require hotels.

We did expand our traveling a bit, as finances allowed. We even went to Canada.

Now, we have several friends who help with advice, and the like (always a welcome thing for a relative newbie!), and two more show dogs. The next couple years will be interesting!

I will say this, though: HAVE FUN! We made some major mistakes with our first breeder, including being too serious. We ended up with a dog that HATED the show ring, and always looked as though he'd rather have been anywhere else. He finished his CH, because he was (and still is) a very nice dog, but we could have done so much better.

And, I learned to try not to fault-judge. Meaning, don't look so hard at your competitors weaknesses, rather embrace their strengths. Learn what they have going for them, and take that into consideration. Appreciate the good things, and learn what your dog has to beat that! I started out looking down my nose at everyone else. I thought, because I had (what we thought was) a top breeder as a mentor, I was above all them already. And having a breeder mentoring me to think that way only made it worse. Looking back, I realize I should have learned to look at the good points of my competition: it's the best way to better the breed, as we all should be doing.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. I have a very young dog right now that is going to mature very nicely. He's acting like a goofball in the ring, but I don't care: he's having fun, and building a foundation for an enjoyable show career in the future. As he matures, we will work together to get down to business. For now, we are playing! But he has embarrassed me a lot by making mistakes and acting like a goober. But I laugh them off, and praise him for having fun.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*Is a lot of travel involved or are there enough shows within an area that you wont have to travel halfway across the country? I'm in NC, is there a chance I wont have to travel farther south than SC, further east than TN, and further north than VA?*
It depends on where you live. Where I lived in VA, I had to do WAY more traveling than I really wanted to for shows. Where I live now (Western PA), I can travel to several shows a year and drive two hours or less. One show is only 6 minutes from my house!

*How much money do you end up spending on this sport?*
You'll spend in the thousands. May as well come right out and say it. A show weekend can be anywhere from $200-600 (or more)

*How long does it typically take to get a good eye for the breed?*
Depends on the individual. I have been told that I have a natural eye for a dog. My weakness is putting what I see and understand into technological terms. The moment somebody starts talking about tibias metatarsals and fulcrums, I'm lost.

*What other things do you think I should know?*
You need to learn the terminology for the various parts of the anatomy of dogs. Not only that, but some terminology varies from breed to breed. For example, some breeds will refer to the area of the ribcage as the brisket. In GSDs, it is simply the ribcage. "Deep bodied" in a GSD can mean something very different compared to, say, a Viszla.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Hmm, I may not be able to afford showing for several more years, then.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I would still go to show, and talk to people to learn all you can about it, even if you cannot financially swing it till a few years later. Making contacts now will surely help later on. How far are you from Concord, NC? I would be happy to talk to you about showing. I don't show paps, but the basics is what you will need to start with. 

In the meantime, these are some good books, some written by judges/pro handlers, who have been in it a long time
http://www.amazon.com/The-Winning-E...F8&qid=1349287838&sr=8-2&keywords=dog+showing
http://www.amazon.com/New-Secrets-S...8&qid=1349287838&sr=8-11&keywords=dog+showing
http://www.amazon.com/The-Simple-Guide-Showing-Your/dp/0793821142/ref=pd_sim_b_26
http://www.amazon.com/Show-Me-Dog-S...F8&qid=1349288058&sr=1-1&keywords=dog+showing
http://www.amazon.com/Show-Me-Dog-S...F8&qid=1349288058&sr=1-1&keywords=dog+showing


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

It's not a requirement that you go out and show every weekend. I took June and July off because I was feeling a bit burnt out.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Xeph said:


> It's not a requirement that you go out and show every weekend. I took June and July off because I was feeling a bit burnt out.


This is also true.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Dae, I will also be in North Carolina next spring for a dog show. How far are you from Raleigh?

I certainly didn't mean to be discouraging. I do love dog shows, in spite of all the politics and BS. I just don't like it when people post about all the magic of dog shows, but aren't honest about the expense.

I tend to spend more on dog shows because I have more dogs than I did when I started. Larger string = larger expense.

My biggest dog show of the year is the Philadelphia cluster (aka, the National Dog Show), held the week before Thanksgiving.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Dont get discouraged yet. I am a newby in conformation, but been a groomer for 12 years, so I have a good background in dogs and structure. I wanted an Airedale, so I researched breeders and lines with the particular look I like. Many breeders will jump at the chance to put a puppy in a show home, but be prepared for co-ownership. Good breeders are leery of placing an intact dog in a home with someone, and rightfully so. You dont have to show every weekend, or even every month. Dales are slow maturers, so I didnt even start showing him til he was just under 2 years old. I am not sure about papillons. My boy took a Group 4 out of the classes (not a champion yet but beat a Special for the Breed) in his 3rd show, with me handling! I havent spent a ton of money, but just trying to have fun with him. You can choose to only go to shows close to home, and cut hotel expenses. Its not cheap, but its a hobby and if you decide its really something you want to do, just do your research on your breed and breeders. Go to shows, get your name and face out there with the breeders, so when you are ready you already have a network.  I will say, its really, really fun!


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

I live in Raleigh, close to NCSU, but I am from Huntersville, which is about 20 minutes from Concord, NC. It's 2.5 hours from Raleigh, though. I have contacted Legend's breeder about showing and she said she'd be willing to help some, so we'll see how things go.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

One nice thing about papillons then is that they show late typically. A lot of people will put them in a few puppy class shwos then sit and wait for their fringe and coats to come in fully. We didn't even start showing Beau until he was 3 years old. His sire was the same way and both of them went out and did well once they did start showing. (Beau only went lower than winner's dog once or twice). It's hard for the younger dogs to compete sometimes.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

Very good suggestions here.

I would also suggest you attend a meeting or two of your local AKC club (assuming that you want to show in AKC). You maY or may not find someone there who works with your particular breed, but you'll still start your "networking". That's a big part of the dog show deal. You may even be pointed to a breeder. Most clubs are quite welcoming of newcomers - they may turn out to be members some day. Don't be concerned that you don't have your dog yet - many people actually start their networking well before they get their first show dog. 

All the questions you've raised have probably been asked and answered there numerous times before so don't be afraid to ask them.

A lot of clubs also provide show handling training. Assuming you're going to handle your dog yourself, you'll need that eventually if you don't have any previous experience. 

As of this July, you _can_ now start showing your dog in the Beginner Puppy Classes at 4-6 months and you can also now enter puppies in Open Shows for practice. 

Good luck.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Well there is a kennel club in Raleigh, that is one of the clubs in the Raleigh, NC dog show clusters. 

http://www.raleighkennelclub.org/index.html

Doesn't look like they put on conformation classes, but maybe one of the others does, one of the members of the club might know of one.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> ...
> Doesn't look like they put on conformation classes, but maybe one of the others does, one of the members of the club might know of one.


Don't know too much about the RKC, but I do know some members of the Durham Kennel Club. They defiinitely hold show-handling classes. 

And for the OP - the Tarheel Circuit is a HUGE show in your area (actually, multiple club shows over multiple days). You should probably think about dropping by no matter what even if you don't enter. It usually take place in March 

Tar Heel Cluster


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

The Tarheel is what I will be in attendance at next year  The GSD southeastern futurity is being held in conjunction with the cluster ^_^


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I will also likely be at that show, unless something else comes up.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Awesome! I will have to keep an eye out for when shows are coming up!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Daenerys said:


> Awesome! I will have to keep an eye out for when shows are coming up!


Check out those links to Infodog, it lists upcoming shows. I will be going to the Winston-Salem shows (Furniture City Kennel Club), it's a two day show. I will be going to Concord for all three days (Salisburg NC Kennel Club, Greater Monroe Kennel Club, Fayettesville Kennel Club). 

I might be doing the Winston-Salem shows in December, but not sure about that.


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

How did no one mention politics? Ha! Main thing I've learned is get used to losing to dogs that really shouldn't win. It sucks, but you have to move on. I don't know if there's any kind of predudice in Paps, but I'm showing a natural eared Boxer and it's terrible sometimes. You just have to keep going. And it does take a lot of money if you have a handler. We're going to have to show more sparingly.


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