# First time Doberman owner..



## Halo 4 (Nov 13, 2012)

Hello people,
I have a 9 month old male puppy and i need a little advice if its safe for him to stay outside for the night. I live in Victoria Tx and were on low 50s. Reason he is staying outside is because i'am cleaning my house and though i threw a couple bug fogger cans. Iam staying at a hotel for the night and i cannot bring him with me.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I think it would be better if he was boarded for the night, or stayed at a friends place.

In the future, you could always try to find pet friendly accommodation. They are out there.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

No, not safe. He could escape, get hurt, be harmed in your yard if I assume correctly that is where you'd leave him.

Why not crate him in your locked car at the hotel, or if he is non-destructive in the car, just lock him in the car. The temp is fine, the situation is what is important.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> Why not crate him in your locked car at the hotel, or if he is non-destructive in the car, just lock him in the car. The temp is fine, the situation is what is important.


I'm going to have to peg this as a worse idea than leaving him at home in the yard. Among the many different things that could happen, aside from the dog being freaked out as who knows what, can't you just imagine the wrong person walking by, seeing a young doberman in a car, alone? If not that, then people constantly walking by terrorizing the dog in the car? I know it happens here a lot, and I've caught people prowling around Aleu from just me taking 30 seconds to get my mail. 

I would try to find a friend/family member to take him for the night, or quickly look for a board facility, maybe even a pet friendly hotel.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

HollowHeaven said:


> I'm going to have to peg this as a worse idea than leaving him at home in the yard. Among the many different things that could happen, aside from the dog being freaked out as who knows what, can't you just imagine the wrong person walking by, seeing a young doberman in a car, alone? If not that, then people constantly walking by terrorizing the dog in the car? I know it happens here a lot, and I've caught people prowling around Aleu from just me taking 30 seconds to get my mail.
> 
> I would try to find a friend/family member to take him for the night, or quickly look for a board facility, maybe even a pet friendly hotel.


Why on earth would the dog be afraid and freaking out?

I've crated (along with millions of others) my dog in the car for well over 8 hours during dog events. I know people who take their dogs to work with them and crate them in the car for the entire day, only going to let them out on lunch. It's less likely that someone is going to break into my car to steal my German Shepherd than someone breaking a lock on my gate and stealing my dog from my yard where he's left unattended. It's one night in a hotel, and getting reservations for dog boarding on that short of notice would have been next to impossible.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

That would be where they 'could' word came in.
I know mine wouldn't be able to handle being crated or loose even, in a car alone overnight. I also wouldn't put it past someone to snatch my dog from my car. Breeds like the Doberman are a little bit higher on the list for theft, I would imagine.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

HollowHeaven said:


> That would be where they 'could' word came in.
> I know mine wouldn't be able to handle being crated or loose even, in a car alone overnight. I also wouldn't put it past someone to snatch my dog from my car. Breeds like the Doberman are a little bit higher on the list for theft, I would imagine.


Theft is theft. It's going to be harder to break into a car and a crate than it is to jump a fence or break a lock to steal the dog from a backyard. 

This is another reason it's great to crate train a dog. Put a crate in a car, and no one walking by would have any idea I had a dog inside unless they got real close and looked into the car to see the crate. I have tinted windows.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

You've heard some reasons not to leave a dog outside.

It's probably too late, but in Victoria at 50 degrees with a pallet and a little protection from the elements ( weather forecast looks good), a near full grown Dobie should do fine. You may have to deal with neighbors, noises, digging, critters, barking, and trying to escape... but the weather shouldn't be a problem...


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

DJEtzel said:


> Why not crate him in your locked car at the hotel, or if he is non-destructive in the car, just lock him in the car. The temp is fine, the situation is what is important.


Absolutely TERRIBLE idea! 

OP board the dog or find a pet friendly hotel.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> Absolutely TERRIBLE idea!
> 
> OP board the dog or find a pet friendly hotel.


Quoted for truth


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Absolutely TERRIBLE idea!
> 
> OP board the dog or find a pet friendly hotel.


Care to tell me why? You seemed to think my muzzle idea was terrible in anther thread and couldn't give me a reason why or back up your accusations.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I think the reasons have already been stated by others, Possible theft (here dobies are commonly used as bait dogs), the dog panicing and getting injured, damage to the car among them. YOu seem to be targeting me, a very dangerous game.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> I think the reasons have already been stated by others, Possible theft (here dobies are commonly used as bait dogs), the dog panicing and getting injured, damage to the car among them. YOu seem to be targeting me, a very dangerous game.


I'm not targeting you at all, you just happen to post in every thread I do negating what I say, and I want clarification as to why.

Do you think people who show and trial dogs are crazy then? For leaving dogs crated in cars for a 12 hour day (aside from the hour or so not showing, of course!)?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

What show people leave dogs in cars for 12 hours? Most of the show season is in the summer, this would endanger them. I do know a FEW professional handlers that have RV's with integrated crates, it's a whole different system, but the dogs are NEVER left unattended. Also nearly every show person I know (and I know and have known MANY in my life) takes their dogs in the hotel room (unless they have the afore mentioned RV) they don't stay at places that don't welcome the dogs. 

Really, you post some bad ideas, I AND OTHERS point out they are bad ideas. Pretty simple.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Also, I lived in a hotel from November of last year (Left Bremertom WA a year ago today) until April of this year WITH MY DOGS. During my travel and hotel stays my dogs were NEVER unattended in the car, not for food stops, not for gas stops, not for bathroom stops. You see, I LIVE what I tell others.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Maybe we live in different areas. Around here, for dock diving competitions, agility trials, I see people leaving dogs in their cars all day. Windows down, fans on. Lots of bathroom breaks. Not uncommon at all.

I live what I tell others, too. I left my pit bull and border collie in the car for an hour each last night by themselves while we were training, I stop for gas, stop for groceries, etc. and leave them in the car. It's not a risk around here as far as I can tell, or not one I am worried about. For a while, while I was homeless, Frag stayed in my car for an 8 hour work day with a bathroom break or two, because he had nowhere to go. The car is locked, the dogs lay down or are crated. No one even knows they're there, and I have people comment on how well-behaved they are frequently. 

As far as I'm concerned, provided the weather is adequate or can be made accurate, keeping my dogs in my car where I'm at is 50x safer than leaving them loose in my backyard while I'm gone for 8-12 hours.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

Not condoning the idea of leaving a dog in a car but there is a huge difference between leaving a dog in a car at a DOG EVENT (with dog people) and leaving a dog in a car outside a hotel/in a residential area/etc.

I'm late to this thread and I see that the OP hasn't responded but, OP, dobes are not equipped to be outside dogs. They have a single, thin layer of fur and are quite susceptible to heat and cold. My doberman has a sweater for when the temperature drops below 60 degrees and he is obviously happier with it on. They cannot regulate their temperature that well and don't have a nice double-coat to help.

I hope you boarded your dog.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> Maybe we live in different areas. Around here, for dock diving competitions, agility trials, I see people leaving dogs in their cars all day. Windows down, fans on. Lots of bathroom breaks. Not uncommon at all.
> 
> I live what I tell others, too. I left my pit bull and border collie in the car for an hour each last night by themselves while we were training, I stop for gas, stop for groceries, etc. and leave them in the car. It's not a risk around here as far as I can tell, or not one I am worried about. For a while, while I was homeless, Frag stayed in my car for an 8 hour work day with a bathroom break or two, because he had nowhere to go. The car is locked, the dogs lay down or are crated. No one even knows they're there, and I have people comment on how well-behaved they are frequently.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, provided the weather is adequate or can be made accurate, keeping my dogs in my car where I'm at is 50x safer than leaving them loose in my backyard while I'm gone for 8-12 hours.


 
You can't put on fans and put the windows down and give bathroom breaks in the middle of the night. It's also going to get considerably cold in the car the same way it could get considerably hot in the car. 
Not many dogs are at all comfortable being left alone in a car. What happens if you're sleeping in your hotel and way out the barking lot your dog's having a panic attack?
Around here, if someone were to leave a husky, or a pit bull, or a doberman, alone in a car overnight, it likely would not be there when they got back the next morning. That's a breed that can be sold for good money.
Yes, someone might walk into your yard and take your dog, but someone might get into your car and get your dog too. 

I personally think I'd sleep in the car or camp out in the back in a tent before I'd choose either of the options though.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

HollowHeaven said:


> You can't put on fans and put the windows down and give bathroom breaks in the middle of the night. It's also going to get considerably cold in the car the same way it could get considerably hot in the car.
> Not many dogs are at all comfortable being left alone in a car. What happens if you're sleeping in your hotel and way out the barking lot your dog's having a panic attack?
> Around here, if someone were to leave a husky, or a pit bull, or a doberman, alone in a car overnight, it likely would not be there when they got back the next morning. That's a breed that can be sold for good money.
> Yes, someone might walk into your yard and take your dog, but someone might get into your car and get your dog too.
> ...


50 degree weather is perfect weather though. That would not be too cold or warm for a Doberman or any of my dogs, that's for sure. I wouldn't own a dog I couldn't crate somewhere if I had to, so I guess that's a new thing to me? I like mine to be well-behaved and tolerate what I tell them to. Crating; anywhere! is one of them. Why are so few dogs comfortable in a car? + we don't know that the OPs dog isn't comfortable in a car. This situation would have worked out perfectly for me and could have for him, too.

eta; and you can't give bathroom breaks in the middle of the night? Why not? I'm up until at least 11 most nights, wake back up to eat and youtube at 3 or 4 and all the dogs go out again then... it wouldn't be hard to take the dog on a late night walk, then let it out at 4am and get up at 7 to take it home/take care of it/walk it some more.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

We crate in the car for class and some events depending on the temperature/setup. Mia was also in the car an hour and a half last night while waiting for her turn to work. Big difference than crating in a car at a hotel at night.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Just adding- a 9 month old male dobe may very well not fit in a crate that fits in a sedan. I have a "larger" car (not suv) and i can't even get a 36 inch crate set up in it, and theres no way a dobe would fit in a 30.

camping outside with dogs is fun anyway


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Rescued said:


> Just adding- a 9 month old male dobe may very well not fit in a crate that fits in a sedan. I have a "larger" car (not suv) and i can't even get a 36 inch crate set up in it, and theres no way a dobe would fit in a 30.
> 
> camping outside with dogs is fun anyway


You're right, I didn't think of that. 36" crates always fit in my Concorde and fit in my current Saturn VUE which is not an SUV ether. But I'm sure most other cars wouldn't fit them. 

I did however camp in my backyard with my pit bull two nights ago. It was fun.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> You're right, I didn't think of that. 36" crates always fit in my Concorde and fit in my current Saturn VUE which is not an SUV ether. But I'm sure most other cars wouldn't fit them.
> 
> I did however camp in my backyard with my pit bull two nights ago. It was fun.


Just made me think of it because we had overnight foster puppies (coming down from the guide dog organization) last week, and I learned that making a 30 minute trip home alone in the car with 2 8 week old puppies and an 80lb labrador, all uncrated, is difficult at best. I was kicking myself for not borrowing a smaller crate to stuff them all into for the trip home.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

DJEtzel said:


> 50 degree weather is perfect weather though. That would not be too cold or warm for a Doberman or any of my dogs, that's for sure. I wouldn't own a dog I couldn't crate somewhere if I had to, so I guess that's a new thing to me? I like mine to be well-behaved and tolerate what I tell them to. Crating; anywhere! is one of them. Why are so few dogs comfortable in a car? + we don't know that the OPs dog isn't comfortable in a car. This situation would have worked out perfectly for me and could have for him, too.
> 
> eta; and you can't give bathroom breaks in the middle of the night? Why not? I'm up until at least 11 most nights, wake back up to eat and youtube at 3 or 4 and all the dogs go out again then... it wouldn't be hard to take the dog on a late night walk, then let it out at 4am and get up at 7 to take it home/take care of it/walk it some more.


Do you HAVE or have you EVER had a Doberman? They have a SINGLE coat, NO insulation It's not a GSD or even a Rottwieler, heck my Bulldog (and most pits) have more insulation. Oh, and yes, I live just outside DC and dog theft is RAMPANT here. I've travelled this country north to south and most every place I've been Dobermans are COMMONLY stolen, especailly younger dobes that are in tact. I beleive the OP is in the Houston area and dog theft for fighting rings is HORRID.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

cshellenberger said:


> Do you HAVE or have you EVER had a Doberman? They have a SINGLE coat, NO insulation It's not a GSD or even a Rottwieler, heck my Bulldog (and most pits) have more insulation. Oh, and yes, I live just outside DC and dog theft is RAMPANT here. I've travelled this country north to south and most every place I've been Dobermans are COMMONLY stolen, especailly younger dobes that are in tact. I beleive the OP is in the Houston area and dog theft for fighting rings is HORRID.


I can definitely see why in some areas it would be an okay backup plan to leave a dog in the car, as DJ said she has done with her dogs in her area in the past. In some areas near my house it would definitely be an okay last resort and preferable to being outside in the cold in a backyard, especially if the owner napped in the car with the dog and a bunch of blankets. I think it all depends on the area that the OP is in. Hopefully the OP just camped out with her dobie, so much more fun!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Rescued, I was referring to leaving the dog ALONE in the car overnight. I have no probelm with sleeping in the car with the dog or camping with the dog where it has shelter and a source of warmth (blanket or sleeping bag). Dobes just aren't cut out to be exposed to cool/cold temps for extended periods without some type of insulation to help them maintain body heat.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I think it's one of those things.... 
I leave my dog in the car a lot, for varying lengths of time and in various places. But I wouldn't suggest it to others without knowing their location and situation.

To be fair though, when I first read DJ's post I didn't think there was anything wrong with it until I read everyone else's reasons. And I still don't think it's wrong persay but... Yeah, not my dog and not my place to say. I also hope the OP found an alternative. I would have slept in the car with my dog or camped out in the yard with it.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> I wouldn't own a dog I couldn't crate somewhere if I had to, so I guess that's a new thing to me? *I like mine to be well-behaved and tolerate what I tell them to*. Crating; anywhere! is one of them.


Hope you never have to deal with a dog with anxiety. They're not very well behaved or tolerant at all in certain situations. 
Not that we know whether or not the OP's dog panics, or is crate trained or anything else, but panicking in a car, does not mean the dog's not well trained. It means the dog's scared and training has nothing to do with that.

I just would never, nor ever recommend someone, leave my -their- dogs alone, in a car, all night long, in a strange, high traffic place. 
I couldn't imagine going to lay down in a hotel knowing my dog's in a crate/loose in my car, way out in the parking lot. I could never imagine doing that. Personally, I would be a nervous wreck.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Do you HAVE or have you EVER had a Doberman? They have a SINGLE coat, NO insulation It's not a GSD or even a Rottwieler, heck my Bulldog (and most pits) have more insulation. Oh, and yes, I live just outside DC and dog theft is RAMPANT here. I've travelled this country north to south and most every place I've been Dobermans are COMMONLY stolen, especailly younger dobes that are in tact. I beleive the OP is in the Houston area and dog theft for fighting rings is HORRID.


I have a Pit Bull with minimal fur because of mange. He gets cold a lot quicker than most small dogs I've seen. I know what temperatures he can and cannot tolerate.



cshellenberger said:


> Rescued, I was referring to leaving the dog ALONE in the car overnight. I have no probelm with sleeping in the car with the dog or camping with the dog where it has shelter and a source of warmth (blanket or sleeping bag). Dobes just aren't cut out to be exposed to cool/cold temps for extended periods without some type of insulation to help them maintain body heat.


I'm confused... if your argument is temperature, there is no difference between leaving the dog in the car alone and you being there. It's the same temp. My Pit Bull did just fine in a cooled off car for an hour in mid-30 degree weather the other day. He still opts for being outside most of the day with no coat or boots.



HollowHeaven said:


> Hope you never have to deal with a dog with anxiety. They're not very well behaved or tolerant at all in certain situations.
> Not that we know whether or not the OP's dog panics, or is crate trained or anything else, but panicking in a car, does not mean the dog's not well trained. It means the dog's scared and training has nothing to do with that.
> 
> I just would never, nor ever recommend someone, leave my -their- dogs alone, in a car, all night long, in a strange, high traffic place.
> I couldn't imagine going to lay down in a hotel knowing my dog's in a crate/loose in my car, way out in the parking lot. I could never imagine doing that. Personally, I would be a nervous wreck.


I've dealt with so much anxiety it's not even funny. When my GSD was younger he had extreme SA. My Pit Bull has mild SA still. I foster Weimaraners, many of which have SA much worse than my GSD did and try to kill themselves. I know all about anxiety and how dogs act, but I've never had a dog that would freak out in a car so it's just something I didn't think about. Training, however, does have everything to do with improving or fixing anxiety. Training "fixed" my dog's anxiety, and my fosters'.

Even my Border Collie hates the car and drools a bit when we drive, but is totally happy and content when it's parked.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

DJEtzel said:


> I'm confused... if your argument is temperature, there is no difference between leaving the dog in the car alone and you being there. It's the same temp. My Pit Bull did just fine in a cooled off car for an hour in mid-30 degree weather the other day. He still opts for being outside most of the day with no coat or boots.


You dog did fine for a SHORT TERM, DURING THE DAY when the sun is warming the car. OVERNIGHT cars cool quickly, yes, if you are in the car WITH the dog you can share body heat, you can also start the car and run the heat for a short time (cracking the window to prevent CO2). However it's NOT just about temperature, it's about SAFETY. The Op lives in Victoria TX, which is an area where a LOT of dogs are stolen to be used for dog fighting (bait dogs). A YOUNG doberman left alone in a car overnight would be a ripe target for these lowlife scum. 



> but I've never had a dog that would freak out in a car so it's just something I didn't think about.


I do, but only if left alone. She's large enough to do serious damge to a vehicle if she panics enough (in fact she has broken the electric window button resulting in a rather expensive repair). Riding in the car she's fine, loads up well and enjoys the ride.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> You dog did fine for a SHORT TERM, DURING THE DAY when the sun is warming the car. OVERNIGHT cars cool quickly, yes, if you are in the car WITH the dog you can share body heat, you can also start the car and run the heat for a short time (cracking the window to prevent CO2). However it's NOT just about temperature, it's about SAFETY. The Op lives in Victoria TX, which is an area where a LOT of dogs are stolen to be used for dog fighting (bait dogs). A YOUNG doberman left alone in a car overnight would be a ripe target for these lowlife scum.


No, my dog was left in the car at night. It was an 8 oclock class, with the sun going down at 5:30/6, but I still see your point. 




> I do, but only if left alone. She's large enough to do serious damge to a vehicle if she panics enough (in fact she has broken the electric window button resulting in a rather expensive repair). Riding in the car she's fine, loads up well and enjoys the ride.


Now that I think about it, I have an old friend who had a pit bull that destroyed his dash when left alone for IDK how long one time... It mangled the dash though like you'd imagine a pit would... 

I'm just used to dogs having more of an issue when the car's moving and less when it's stopped. Even my CRAZY foster weim was a spaz in the car when it was moving (trying to kill us, breaking through harnesses & wasn't at the point of being crated without harm) but was a DOLL while it was stopped (even at lights she'd calm down...). That was the only time I really liked her... in a parked car.


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## PyrettaBlaze (Nov 2, 2012)

I have a Durango so I would opt to just camp out in the truck with the dogs. I'm not sure how they would do if left in the truck alone for a long period of time. Chewie would probably be a nervous wreck since he goes absolutely everywhere I do or stays with my son when he can't be with me (in stores, etc.). Harley gets extremely destructive when left alone in a room so I can only imagine what he would do to the vehicle if he was by himself for more than a few minutes! I'm not sure what he would do to a crate though. I've never put a dog in a crate in my life. LOL

In the OP's case I would say find a place to board the dog for the night or camp out in the car with him if you can't find a motel that will let him in.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

I just want to add, that in some states, it's legal to bust windows, if there is a dog locked in a car. FL is one of those states, I would assume TX might have a law like it due to the extreme heat in the summer.


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## PyrettaBlaze (Nov 2, 2012)

zeronightfarm said:


> I just want to add, that in some states, it's legal to bust windows, if there is a dog locked in a car. FL is one of those states, I would assume TX might have a law like it due to the extreme heat in the summer.


Yep.  I forgot about FL having that law (I'm from Tampa  ). I'm not sure about TX, but Zero is right, in some places you can bust a dog out of a car and it's perfectly within the law especially if it's very hot or cold outside.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> 50 degree weather is perfect weather though. That would not be too cold or warm for a Doberman


Wrong. So wrong.

My doberman, who will tolerate/handle being crated anywhere would NOT be happy in a cold car at night if it's 50 degrees out, or even slightly warmer. He would be cold, he would be shivering, and I would be VERY worried. 





cshellenberger said:


> Do you HAVE or have you EVER had a Doberman? *They have a SINGLE coat, NO insulation* It's not a GSD or even a Rottwieler, heck my Bulldog (and most pits) have more insulation. Oh, and yes, I live just outside DC and dog theft is RAMPANT here. I've travelled this country north to south and most every place I've been *Dobermans are COMMONLY stolen, especailly younger dobes that are in tact*. I beleive the OP is in *the Houston area and dog theft for fighting rings is HORRID.*


Correct.




Some of the information/advice/opinions being spewed in this thread make me want to rip my eyes out - it may be some of the worst advice I've ever heard. I'm going to go hug my doberman and pray for the dogs belonging to some of the posters here. Hope the OP's dog is okay.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

PatchworkRobot said:


> Wrong. So wrong.
> 
> My doberman, who will tolerate/handle being crated anywhere would NOT be happy in a cold car at night if it's 50 degrees out, or even slightly warmer. He would be cold, he would be shivering, and I would be VERY worried.


I guess it depends on the dog? Because it's not "wrong"... my dog is totally fine with 30 degree weather for short periods of time in the car with a blanket and kong (run into the store, crating during class, etc) and he barely has any fur, a single layer of barely any at that. Much less than any Doberman I've met. I think sometimes we put way too much thought into what WE feel the dog will or won't like and don't rely on the dog to tell us.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I think it's a bad idea and wouldn't do it for the many other reasons mentioned, but honestly 50 degrees isn't very cold.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

sassafras said:


> I think it's a bad idea and wouldn't do it for the many other reasons mentioned, but honestly 50 degrees isn't very cold.


Thank you for somewhat agreeing with me. 

I understand there could be plenty of reasons not to do it depending on the dog and the area, and that would be for the OP to determine. A car alarm, tinted windows and calm dog might be perfect for the situation in a low-traffic area, we really have no idea which is why everything is a suggestion. But jeez, the temperature in my house is usually in the very low 60s in this weather we've been having... just 10 degrees warmer and my dogs don't have a problem with the house, either. And they live in that all the time.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

My house has been getting down to 70 at night, and both my Jacks shiver. I have to keep their crates covered, and they both have tons of blankets. I find them both rolled up in them every morning. 50 is to cold to leave a dog alone in a car. 

If I saw a dog left alone in a car all night, not only would I give you a peice of my mind, I'd call the police. Running into the store, or having them in the car at events is one thing, leaving them alone all night is another. I don't even like leaving Cheecho alone in the car when I run in the gas station so I can pay for gas.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I guess it depends on the dog? Because it's not "wrong"... my dog is totally fine with 30 degree weather for short periods of time in the car with a blanket and kong (run into the store, crating during class, etc) and he barely has any fur, a single layer of barely any at that. Much less than any Doberman I've met. I think sometimes we put way too much thought into what WE feel the dog will or won't like and don't rely on the dog to tell us.


A dog that is used to cold weather will handle it better, sure. However, we are talking a out a Doberman in Southern Texas and, as a Texas Doberman owner I am saying that the 9 (I think) month old dog in question will provably not handle the weather well. This would be that dog's first winter and last winter was not cold at all. And, while you're more than welcome to assume that I'm anthropromorphizig for my Doberman, I have personally seen him huddle near the house, waiting for me to let him in, in weather that is about 57 and below. Also, I have seen him go from the huddling and obvious unhappiness and back to his normal self once 1) I let him inside or 2) I put his jammies on. Its not just him either - my experience has been remarkably similar with the hundreds of short haired and so gale coated dogs (as well as some of the furrier ones) that I've worked with in the colder Texas months.

So yes, I think you are speaking about things that you don't really know about. You cannot compare your dogs in MI to a similar dog in TX when to comes to handling weather. That would be like me telling someone in Phonenix that I'm dying of heat because its 95 degrees out. Last, and I don't know why you cannot seem to comprehend this, but leaving a dog in a car at a dog event or even for 10-15 min while you shop for groceries is NOT the same as leaving a dog alone in a car OVER NIGHT outside of a hotel. For what its worth, in Texas that would likely get your window broken and/or the police contacted... *or, as its been mentioned, your dog stolen (very high rates of it) and possibly used as a bait dog (also, sadly, common in the OPs area)*.*



*Bolded so that, maybe, you'll see it.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

PatchworkRobot said:


> A dog that is used to cold weather will handle it better, sure. However, we are talking a out a Doberman in Southern Texas and, as a Texas Doberman owner I am saying that the 9 (I think) month old dog in question will provably not handle the weather well. This would be that dog's first winter and last winter was not cold at all. And, while you're more than welcome to assume that I'm anthropromorphizig for my Doberman, I have personally seen him huddle near the house, waiting for me to let him in, in weather that is about 57 and below. Also, I have seen him go from the huddling and obvious unhappiness and back to his normal self once 1) I let him inside or 2) I put his jammies on. Its not just him either - my experience has been remarkably similar with the hundreds of short haired and so gale coated dogs (as well as some of the furrier ones) that I've worked with in the colder Texas months.
> 
> So yes, I think you are speaking about things that you don't really know about. You cannot compare your dogs in MI to a similar dog in TX when to comes to handling weather. That would be like me telling someone in Phonenix that I'm dying of heat because its 95 degrees out. Last, and I don't know why you cannot seem to comprehend this, but leaving a dog in a car at a dog event or even for 10-15 min while you shop for groceries is NOT the same as leaving a dog alone in a car OVER NIGHT outside of a hotel. For what its worth, in Texas that would likely get your window broken and/or the police contacted... *or, as its been mentioned, your dog stolen (very high rates of it) and possibly used as a bait dog (also, sadly, common in the OPs area)*.*
> 
> ...


I just said that I understand the difference, so I'm not sure why you're arguing? I fully read everything everyone here has typed, I just don't agree.

and, IDK, maybe call me dense or stupid... but I'm not fully understanding how Texan dogs are different from Michigan dogs? The breeds or coats are the same... humidity is a little different I'm sure... but the temps are similar, both go through seasons, correct? It got over 98-100 degrees this summer easily and the dogs adapted to that... now it's down in the 20s and 30s and the dogs are still fine. How do they adapt differently in Texas?

Just how common is stealing dogs for baiting or fighting in Texas? Could you share some links? Because I mean, there were two huge pit fighting rings busted in my city this summer, but there are no thefts that I'm aware of or have heard of regarding dogs being stolen or adopted for fighting. I don't know if you're assuming that because there is a lot of fighting (and I'm sure more than this area depending on the city in TX) there are stolen dogs or the liklihood goes up, or if it's actually happening.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I just said that I understand the difference, so I'm not sure why you're arguing? I fully read everything everyone here has typed, I just don't agree.


Simply responding to the post in which you quoted me.
Why post more than your first sentence if you feel like all that you needed to say had been said (what I inferred from the sentence above)?





DJEtzel said:


> and, IDK, maybe call me dense or stupid... but I'm not fully understanding how Texan dogs are different from Michigan dogs? The breeds or coats are the same... humidity is a little different I'm sure... but the temps are similar, both go through seasons, correct? It got over 98-100 degrees this summer easily and the dogs adapted to that... now it's down in the 20s and 30s and the dogs are still fine. How do they adapt differently in Texas?


Didn't you just say something along the lines of it depending on the dog? I feel like what I quoted above goes against that.

In Texas, especially the southern parts, freezes are rare. When it looks like the weather (at night) is going to freeze, and especially if there is a chance of precipitation, everything shuts down between noon and 5pm the day before. Texans aren't prepared for the cold because we don't get it all that often. Last winter we had, maybe, two weeks of days that were "cold," which, for the average Texan, means the 40's range** and below (this is a generalization based on my experience and the people I know), and the rest of our winter was in the 65-75 degree range. So, to my friends up north (Boston, NY, PA, Iowa), our winter weather was considered warm/hot and they would laugh when I talked about 40 being cold. It's all about what you know. If you live somewhere where the temperatures rarely drop below 40 degrees, than 40 degrees (or even just getting there) is going to feel cold. Just like, for you I"m sure as well as for my friends up north, 40 and below is nothing because their winters get down in the 20s and lower. To my northern friends they don't start to think "wow, it's cold" until it hits that 20ish degree point. Similarly, when I lived in California the weather barely topped 70 degrees in my area. So, when I moved to Texas I thought I was dying when it was 85 out because I was not used to it.

Yes, I'm using people as an example but humans aren't the only creature that works like that. Simply put - _A dog that has little to no experience with cold weather is not going to handle cold weather as well as a dog who lives in a cooler area. _ 

I don't know how none of it made little sense before so maybe I was able to put it more simply now? If not then I dunno. The situation that started the thread is probably passed but hopefully the OP comes back and reads it all and learns something for the future. Also, hopefully the dog is okay. 


**For the record, during that short period of time my neighbors had left their little dog in their yard over Thanksgiving. I didn't realize until two days (and two nights) later that the dog was outside permanently while the neighbors were gone. Once I came to that realization I went into their yard to get her. I found her huddled under a bush, trying to keep warm. When I took her inside and bundled her in many blankets and tried to warm her up it took her multiple hours to stop shivering. It was 40 degrees out and this dog had more hair than my Doberman.



Edit: Houston is Dognapping Capitol of the World
Not that I"m a fan of Fox News, I"m not, but this was link number two that popped up and I don't really feel like spending the time to find a bunch of links right now.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

PatchworkRobot said:


> Didn't you just say something along the lines of it depending on the dog? I feel like what I quoted above goes against that.


As in, every dog is going to feel something differently, every dog is going to act differently. However, YOU are grouping dogs in texas as those who will freeze while Michigan dogs don't freeze? 



> Yes, I'm using people as an example but humans aren't the only creature that works like that. Simply put - _A dog that has little to no experience with cold weather is not going to handle cold weather as well as a dog who lives in a cooler area. _


THIS is what I wasn't sure if you were trying to get at or not... I just wonder how my dogs can adapt so well when one season is 100 degrees and the other is 10? They're young so it's not like they're really used to it. How long would you say it really takes people or dogs to adapt? A season? Two seasons? Just thinking out loud here, not trying to be argumentative. 



> Houston is Dognapping Capitol of the World
> Not that I"m a fan of Fox News, I"m not, but this was link number two that popped up and I don't really feel like spending the time to find a bunch of links right now.


At least we agree to not be fans of fox news. I just wanted some facts surrounding it... as it would be easy to assume by the fighting in my area that theft would be high as well, however it isn't.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> A dog that is used to cold weather will handle it better, sure. However, we are talking a out a Doberman in Southern Texas and, as a Texas Doberman owner I am saying that the 9 (I think) month old dog in question will provably not handle the weather well. This would be that dog's first winter and last winter was not cold at all. And, while you're more than welcome to assume that I'm anthropromorphizig for my Doberman, I have personally seen him huddle near the house, waiting for me to let him in, in weather that is about 57 and below. Also, I have seen him go from the huddling and obvious unhappiness and back to his normal self once 1) I let him inside or 2) I put his jammies on. Its not just him either - my experience has been remarkably similar with the hundreds of short haired and so gale coated dogs (as well as some of the furrier ones) that I've worked with in the colder Texas months.
> 
> So yes, I think you are speaking about things that you don't really know about. You cannot compare your dogs in MI to a similar dog in TX when to comes to handling weather. That would be like me telling someone in Phonenix that I'm dying of heat because its 95 degrees out. Last, and I don't know why you cannot seem to comprehend this, but leaving a dog in a car at a dog event or even for 10-15 min while you shop for groceries is NOT the same as leaving a dog alone in a car OVER NIGHT outside of a hotel. For what its worth, in Texas that would likely get your window broken and/or the police contacted... or, as its been mentioned, your dog stolen (very high rates of it) and possibly used as a bait dog (also, sadly, common in the OPs area)*.


Agreed. And honestly, my Pug, a double coated breed, who is well used and acclimatized to extreme cold temps, as he lives in Winnipeg, the coldest city of over 600,000 people in the WORLD, and even he would not be able to stay comfortably in a car overnight at 50 degrees. I can't imagine a single-coated breed like a Doberman being comfortable, particularly one who is not accustomed to cooler temps.



> owever, YOU are grouping dogs in texas as those who will freeze while Michigan dogs don't freeze?


Yes. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand, but a dog that is acclimatized to a warm climate that rarely gets cold, WILL feel the cold much faster than a dog of the same breed that is acclimatized to a climate that experiences very cold temperatures, however warm it may get in summer.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Yes. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand, but a dog that is acclimatized to a warm climate that rarely gets cold, WILL feel the cold much faster than a dog of the same breed that is acclimatized to a climate that experiences very cold temperatures, however warm it may get in summer.


That I fully understand. But saying that I can't compare any two breeds of the same in two different states? I'm sure a GSD would be fine in cold weather or snow if it exists in Texas just like they are here. If a dog that is physically built for it cannot adapt, I feel there is an issue.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> That I fully understand. But saying that I can't compare any two breeds of the same in two different states? I'm sure a GSD would be fine in cold weather or snow if it exists in Texas just like they are here. If a dog that is physically built for it cannot adapt, I feel there is an issue.


A GSD from Texas would handle snow or cold better than a Doberman from Texas, but it would NOT handle it as well as a GSD from a colder climate. Would it acclimatize if it moved to a colder climate? Of course! But, it takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. So, no. You really can't compare how a Doberman in Michigan handles cold weather to how a Doberman in Texas will handle it.

Honestly, this really is common sense stuff here.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh, for heaven's sake. I'm Canadian. When I went to Florida in July, I felt like I was going to die from the heat. My friend who lives in Florida barely broke a sweat. When the two of us went to Vegas in October, it was 59F (15C) and windy and she was complaining about being too cold, while I was comfortable. We're the same "breed." 

I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand that a doberman in Michigan, who is acclimated to lower winter temperatures, will therefore be able to handle lower temps better than a doberman in Texas, who is used to higher temperatures. Same breed, different lives, different experiences.

And I wouldn't leave a dog in a car overnight in front of a hotel. I used to live near a hotel; I know how much crazy crap goes down around them at night. I DEFINITELY wouldn't leave a dog overnight in front of a hotel in a state known for dog theft.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Oh, for heaven's sake. I'm Canadian. When I went to Florida in July, I felt like I was going to die from the heat. My friend who lives in Florida barely broke a sweat. When the two of us went to Vegas in October, it was 59F (15C) and windy and she was complaining about being too cold, while I was comfortable. We're the same "breed."
> 
> I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand that a doberman in Michigan, who is acclimated to lower winter temperatures, will therefore be able to handle lower temps better than a doberman in Texas, who is used to higher temperatures. Same breed, different lives, different experiences.


Very well said!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> A GSD from Texas would handle snow or cold better than a Doberman from Texas, but it would NOT handle it as well as a GSD from a colder climate. Would it acclimatize if it moved to a colder climate? Of course! But, it takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. So, no. You really can't compare how a Doberman in Michigan handles cold weather to how a Doberman in Texas will handle it.
> 
> Honestly, this really is common sense stuff here.


Wow. You're completely missing my point. Nevermind. 

For the last time, I fully understand that they're going to feel different. People here are treating them like they are two separate breeds when in fact they are not.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Agreed. And honestly, my Pug, a double coated breed, who is well used and acclimatized to extreme cold temps, as he lives in Winnipeg, the coldest city of over 600,000 people in the WORLD, and even he would not be able to stay comfortably in a car overnight at 50 degrees. I can't imagine a single-coated breed like a Doberman being comfortable, particularly one who is not accustomed to cooler temps.
> .


REALLY Off topic, but I just looked up your temperature averages and I'm just curious as I don't know anyone from canada/anyone up north, but...

How do you function when its that cold? Do people wear ski masks when walking places in the winter? Do you wear like thermal leggings under pants? How do you take the dog out to pee... does he have like a down jacket and little boots and only stays outside for a few minutes?

Sorry for the stupid questions, I'm just honestly curious. Bubba has been putting up a fuss about going outside in the last few days since its been rainy and FREEZING (aka 40 degrees haha)


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm in Texas, my dog is a GSD mix. I walk him every day, and he stays outside 50% of the time (sleeping in the sun) when the weather is relatively pleasant. When it snowed 12" a few years ago, we had no problem playing in it for a few hours. However, if it's 100 degrees in Feb (it happens), then he's not conditioned for it. But 115 degrees in August is OK for a 30 min. walk/run... And, if the temperature gets down in the 20s this winter, we'll be out there in the playground, just like every other day... and, he may even sleep in the yard, if it's sunny...


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

It is colder where Kuma's Mom is than where I lived my whole life up until now (Maritime Canada), but really, you get used to it. It was around 3-6C (37-43F) here in Toronto last week, and I haven't broken out a winter jacket yet; I'm still walking around in a hoodie. When it drops to below freezing, I'll break out a warmer coat for me and I'll start putting Crystal's coat on her when we go out. When it gets a lot colder in the middle of winter (-15C/5F or below), I wear my heavy winter coat, warm mittens, and a winter hat, with a scarf to cover the bottom part of my face, but I don't use thermal leggings or anything -- I'm fine in jeans.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

hanksimon said:


> I'm in Texas, my dog is a GSD mix. I walk him every day, and he stays outside 50% of the time (sleeping in the sun) when the weather is relatively pleasant. When it snowed 12" a few years ago, we had no problem playing in it for a few hours. However, if it's 100 degrees in Feb (it happens), then he's not conditioned for it. But 115 degrees in August is OK for a 30 min. walk/run... And, if the temperature gets down in the 20s this winter, we'll be out there in the playground, just like every other day... and, he may even sleep in the yard, if it's sunny...


So it's easy for him to get used to it when it's gradual is what you're saying, but the actual temp doesn't matter? I'm not sure why this wouldn't be the case with all dogs!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> So it's easy for him to get used to it when it's gradual is what you're saying, but the actual temp doesn't matter? I'm not sure why this wouldn't be the case with all dogs!


Is anyone saying it's not? I know that my friend's maltese would freeze if they jumped on a plane and flew from Florida into a Canadian winter... but if she sent him up to live with me in September and I took him out for walks as the temperatures gradually dipped, he'd do a lot better. However, that has nothing to do with taking a dog who's normally used to living indoors and being exposed to outside temperatures only on walks/potty breaks and shoving that dog into a car overnight. For one thing, the dog won't be active in the car, which will make it feel colder. It'll also be dark -- the sun won't be out to warm the dog. And finally, the dog will be exposed to the lower temps for much longer than usual.

My papillon can easily do an hour-long walk on an average winter day, because we're being active. If she sits in the yard for 10 minutes instead of running around, she gets cold and sits there looking pitiful. If I put her in a car overnight, she'd be miserable.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> For the last time, I fully understand that they're going to feel different. People here are treating them like they are two separate breeds when in fact they are not.


No, people are saying the same breed will handle the cold differently depending on what type of climate they're acustomed to. Looks like you're not getting OUR point.



> REALLY Off topic, but I just looked up your temperature averages and I'm just curious as I don't know anyone from canada/anyone up north, but...
> 
> How do you function when its that cold? Do people wear ski masks when walking places in the winter? Do you wear like thermal leggings under pants? How do you take the dog out to pee... does he have like a down jacket and little boots and only stays outside for a few minutes?
> 
> Sorry for the stupid questions, I'm just honestly curious. Bubba has been putting up a fuss about going outside in the last few days since its been rainy and FREEZING (aka 40 degrees haha)


LOL, well, to a certain extent, you DO get used to it, although I never do very well when it gets really cold, I hate winter, lol. But, we have warm parkas and coats, which is enough for just running to and from the car to your building. If we're going to be outside for any length of time, then yes, the hats, scarves, and thermal underwear comes out, lol. Some people will even wear full ski suits when it gets really cold. Car starters are a BIG seller here, lol, and it's simply impossible to buy a car without a block heater installed. 

Once the real winter temps hit, Kuma typically wears a sweater and a little parka for potty breaks, and wears the sweater inside pretty much all the time. For walks, if we're walking on city sidewalks, he also wears booties in addition to the sweater and parka, but at the dog park, he's usually to busy playing and running around to worry about his feet, so he goes barefoot there. 

But yeah, they don't call my city Winterpeg for nothing, LOL


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

DJEtzel said:


> I guess it depends on the dog? Because it's not "wrong"... my dog is totally fine with 30 degree weather* for short periods of time in the car with a blanket and kong* (run into the store, crating during class, etc) and he barely has any fur, a single layer of barely any at that. Much less than any Doberman I've met. I think sometimes we put way too much thought into what WE feel the dog will or won't like and don't rely on the dog to tell us.


 
I've bolded the most important part of your statement, There's also ACCLIMATION, just as you living in MI would find the heat in TX uncomfortable, someone (or a dog) that is used to temps in Southern TX would find they feel colder at 50* than you would.


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