# German Wirehaired Pointer Questions!



## DEEPfrom1 (Dec 17, 2009)

Hello everyone, this is my first post here. I have some questions about my 11 week old German wirehaired pointer. He is a very smart little man and I love him greatly. I got him when he was 8 weeks old. He was grown to love me very much in the last three weeks. My problem is this, my living arrangements have changed and so has my school schedule. I am now living in my aunts finished attic, and this semester I will be taking 20 credit hours. I have this month off from school until the new semester begins.
I am worrying about the exercise and playfulness of the little guy. The house here has a big yard but is not fenced in, we will be able to go for daily walks and he will get time on a "zip line" the runs through the back yard. I am worrying that I will not have enough time with my demanding school schedule to give him tons of daily exercise  It is winter time here in NY and freezing so we won't be able to hike every weekend for a few hours like we usually do on Sundays. I have been reading that they can be very destructive because of lack of exercise. The person who I got him from runs a hunting reserve and has 30 of these dogs (his family). Upon purchase he told me numerous times that if it wasn't going to work out that he'd buy the dog back. I am not worried about the money. I am debating on taking him back to his home for the best interest of the dog. I know he would have a great life there, they hunt and train from spring to begging of winter, and during the winter months the dogs run on sled teams.
So to anyone that can shed some insight on my situation or opinion, that would be amazing. Anyone own these type of dogs? I really love him and would love to be able to keep him, but feel that I won't have enough time to give him what he needs. I feel so bad for even thinking about giving him back, but I know that it would be best for him.

Please share some thoughts on this topic.

Thank you everyone.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I have no personal experience owning a GWP, but I do know that they are VERY high-energy dogs. I'd estimate more than one long walk a day, plus lots of "mental exercise" like games, toys, training sessions. A zip line or time in a yard rarely helps at all with meeting exercise requirements, simply because it doesn't provide the mental stimulation that being outside on a walk does.

It sounds like your pup may be from working lines as well, which means that he could be even more "drivey" than the average show GWP (which are already quite a handful).

My advice would be to talk to the guy you bought the dog from. It sounds like he has quite some experience with the breed and the kind of care they need. Explain the change in your lifestyle - be completely honest about how much time you'll have to spare. It sounds like taking him back would be no great disservice to him, so examine your schedule realistically and make a decision.

I think one of our members wvasko has experience with a GSP... hopefully he will stop by and shed some light on exactly how much exercise they need.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Ok, I have a 10 yr old personal GWP (Vanna) who is now totally blind but healthy otherwise. Trust me on this I was in my 60s when we got this pup 9 mths old because she was a tad nasty and people had kids. When I was done training clients dogs for the day I did not go for long walks etc as she was my spoiled therapy dog the one I did not have to deal with (just spoil) She survived fine and became a class couch potato.

Exercise is great but the dogs can survive in home without it. True there are many pups/dogs that need more exercise than others but it's the individual dog's drives that count. Through the years I have owned Weimies/GSPs/Brittanies etc and some were couch potato types. (the fun is in the pickin) 

In a perfect world all dogs would be exercised and housed/fed properly etc. This is not a perfect world, so exercise as much as you reasonably can, make sure you crate break your pup as this will help with possible house problems. When pup is proper age start some obedience work as mental exercise is as important as physical work.

The breeder obviously would like his pup hunting etc and I commend you for asking for advice etc. This is your pup now and like anything in life there are choices to be made. 

Good Luck


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## chriley58 (Mar 9, 2009)

I grew up with field bred English Pointers and owned several myself. There's a lot of energy there! Honestly, only you can know what is going to be right in your situation but the fact that you are questioning it leads me to think that you have doubts about it working. Is your situation going to change in the near future? Will you have more free time in the near future? At 11 weeks old you are still in the real puppy stage and they don't require tons of exercise to poop them out but what about when the "teenage" age hits, where will you be then?
My parents currently have a 1 year old field bred English Pointer and he can hunt all day long and still have energy left to play hard at the end of the day. Their older female is content just to hang out and sit in your lap but she's a senior. Their other 7 y.o. male can still hunt all day and play with the 1 y.o. at the end of the day. 
I would consider where you are going to be a few months from now and go from there. What are your future plans for the dog? Sounds like he comes from a hunting background. Best of luck with your decision.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

chriley58 said:


> I grew up with field bred English Pointers and owned several myself. There's a lot of energy there! Honestly, only you can know what is going to be right in your situation but the fact that you are questioning it leads me to think that you have doubts about it working. Is your situation going to change in the near future? Will you have more free time in the near future? At 11 weeks old you are still in the real puppy stage and they don't require tons of exercise to poop them out but what about when the "teenage" age hits, where will you be then?
> My parents currently have a 1 year old field bred English Pointer and he can hunt all day long and still have energy left to play hard at the end of the day. Their older female is content just to hang out and sit in your lap but she's a senior. Their other 7 y.o. male can still hunt all day and play with the 1 y.o. at the end of the day.
> I would consider where you are going to be a few months from now and go from there. What are your future plans for the dog? Sounds like he comes from a hunting background. Best of luck with your decision.


Chriley, Great post,
Generally speaking breedwise the pointer is a higher powered engine. Very few german breed bird dogs can run with the big boys. In my day there were (count on one hand) GSPs that could place in minor circuit shooting dog trials but none that could run major circuit all-age or shooting dog. They just did not have the drive/energy/stamina needed. This is ancient history but I really don't think times have changed much.


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## lizziedog1 (Oct 21, 2009)

> They just did not have the drive/energy/stamina needed. This is ancient history but I really don't think times have changed much.


Well, here is more information on "German" bred dogs.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/germanshorthairedpointer.htm

http://www.terrificpets.com/dog_breeds/German_Shorthaired_Pointer.asp

http://www.gspca.org/Breed/index.html

Where on earth did you get the information that German-Bred dogs can't keep up with others???


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## DEEPfrom1 (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone so much for the input. Since the abrupt change in my life. I am unsure about the future. The only thing I am certain on at this point is after next semester I will be at the state school finishing my Bachelor's and starting my Masters. So I honestly don't know what my housing situation will be. It really breaks my heart but I think it is best for the dog if he goes back to his pack and lives on the hunting reserve . BUT I still have a lot of thinking to do. Any one on here ever own a GWP in an "apartment" with a busy busy schedule?

Thanks again,
-Mark


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## chriley58 (Mar 9, 2009)

wvasko, My very first memories (and I am in my 40's now) were of going every weekend to field trials. My father raised/trained English Pointers. Our "entertainment" as kids was the weekend at the trials. We worked them off of our Tennessee walking horses. All in all, not a bad way to grow up.
And your right way back when, the English pointers and some setters dominated the field trials. My father still has friends who are heavily involved in the New England area fields trials and they are heavy on the EP's still.

DEEPfrom1 again, best of luck with your decision. I can see you truly love this pup and want whats best for him.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

lizziedog1 said:


> Well, here is more information on "German" bred dogs.
> 
> http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/germanshorthairedpointer.htm
> 
> ...


As I said my experience is dated but as of 1978 there had never been a German bred bird dog with the necessary qualifications needed to compete at Grand Junction to compete in horseback riding Field trials. I spent 14 years competing on a national level in horseback GSP trials and even managed to win a GSP American Field National.(just got lucky) At that time it was known as a German All Breed National. This is not information, it was facts then. If you have info on GSPs etc placing in major circuits against pointers/setters etc I would be interested in reading it. 

I did not say that german dogs do not have stamina I said they lacked stamina to compete with pointers. I have had many German bred dogs that you could hunt 4 hours take a lunch break and hunt 4 more hours. It's not the same thing as a competition dog. When top notch Competition dogs are bred you get the pups that you can take out and hunt for 8 hours.

Chriley
You bet there is nothing in this world more enjoyable than sitting on a walking horse and watching a well bred bird dog slamming into a point 500 yards away (or longer) and another dog coming in to honor. 

It's not something you can explain, you just got to be there. I have an idea there are more walking trials now which is like eating hamburger when you're used to filets.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

As Wvasko pointed out, all dogs of a given breed don't behave the same. Heck, all pups from the same litter don't have the same exercise requirements. At 11 weeks of age, you should already be able to get a good read on which kind you have.

I have one of those field bred pups who has an energy level that is hard to believe if you don't see him go. Really, there doesn't seem to be a bottom to it. 20 credits is a demanding course load, but I doubt your scheduling challenges are drastically worse than mine. And yet, it has all worked out pretty well.

You have some resources available to you worth considering. You might be able to find somebody on campus in a similar situation. If a (carefully screened) student or faculty member has a (carefully screened) dog, in need of more run-time, you may be able to work out a mutually beneficial arrangement. If you can get out with the pups 2 or 3 days a week, and they can get out 2 or 3 different days per week, you are covered. Get on that new fangled Space-Face thingy and start Twirping.

Learn to love the winter wonderland. If you are upstate NY, invest in a pair of snowshoes. With a little ingenuity, you can make a serviceable pair from found materials. You'll be amazed at how warm you will stay while snowshoeing.

Get a rope. A length of (1/4th in. x 100 ft) braided poly utility rope is like $8.00 at the big hardware outlets. Leash walking may not get it done for your pup. Use that to keep him from running off while you train the bomb-proof recall.

Lots and lots of obedience training. It is unwise to allow a med-large breed puppy to do all the running he may need to do. It's tough on developing joints. Thinking is very hard work for a dog, and training is how you get his little peanut brain working. The combination of vigorous physical exercise and mental stimulation is what causes a high NRG pup to be calmly contented. It definitely takes both, though.

Get with your college's _Office of Services for Students with Disabilities_. Certain services are available to students with disabilities--e.g., the right to sit in the front row and record lectures and etc.. Some profs absolutely hate recorders, but the ADA takes the decision out of their hands. Figuring out how to game the system to your advantage--within certain ethical limits--is excellent life training. Think about it.

Good luck.



wvasko said:


> I did not say that german dogs do not have stamina I said they lacked stamina to compete with pointers.


I am not a pointer guy, but I believe that's still more true than not. However, I think the krauts are closing the gap...somewhat. The Deutch X-haars are still bred to be versatile dogs. However, competition being what it is, there are American breeders who are going for pure birdhounds that can compete with EPs. Why not just get an English Pointer? I dunno.

I recently had a discussion with a field trialer who runs GSPs and he swore that EPs were the ones lacking in drive and stamina. Factoring heavily for "kennel blindness", it is still clear where this trend will take the breed--at least the trial bred lines. Wishful thinking often becomes the self-fulfilling prophecy.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> I am not a pointer guy, but I believe that's still more true than not. However, I think the krauts are closing the gap...somewhat. The Deutch X-haars are still bred to be versatile dogs. However, competition being what it is, there are American breeders who are going for pure birdhounds that can compete with EPs. Why not just get an English Pointer? I dunno.
> 
> I recently had a discussion with a field trialer who runs GSPs and he swore that EPs were the ones lacking in drive and stamina. Factoring heavily for "kennel blindness", it is still clear where this trend will take the breed--at least the trial bred lines. Wishful thinking often becomes the self-fulfilling prophecy.


That's it exactly versatility was what they were bred for to hunt deer, boar duck etc etc etc. Jack of all trades master of none. It's when they got more popular in the States after world war 2 that changes here started with German breeds. Weimeraners were required to have a water certification which finally got dropped because using them in extremely cold water shortened their lifespans. GSPs had no water certifications but still people believing all the propaganda used them for ducks etc. Dogs here were then bred more for bird work /hunting etc and the breed slowly began to change. Kennel blindness is rampant, I love the GSP/GWP/Weimie breeds but they are what they are.

MM hit the nail on the head about different energy requirements. If there's one thing I get irked about it's when people talk in absolutes about dogs/dog breeds etc. You can't do that with people otherwise all German people smart all(pick your nationality)people dumb.


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## Dreadog (Jun 12, 2009)

Mark,

I think you need to take a close look at yourself and decide what YOU really want. I have a 10 month old lab mix, I work full time+ as an attorney and I have two children under the age of 6. I MAKE IT WORK. If you really want to make it work, you can, if you feel it is to much for you, then it is. I wake up every morning at 5:30 to train and exercise my dog before the rest of the family wakes up. Then I train and exercise her again after everyone else is in bed. I never sleep more then 6 hours a night during the week, but that has been my sleeping schedule for years (law school, then babies, now a puppy). 

I see you are getting your masters degree, I can guarantee there are plenty of people getting advanced degrees who have dogs or children or spouses or all of the above, and they manage. You just have to do what you want to do, and if you want to keep the dog, you have to make time for it. It really is just a very personal decision.

Andrea


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## DEEPfrom1 (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the great input. My man concern is my living arrangements are small. The dog (Zeiger) and I share a finished attic, I can't leave him out because the rest of the people in the house are beyond irresponsible. They would let him out on the busy street with no second thought about it. So the crate is a must, 3 days a week I will be on campus for 8 hours plus driving each way. The other 2 days a week will be 4 hour shifts, plus 2 online classes. The house I am in is going on the market in 4 months, that means I need to start looking for a future home for myself. This is tough, if I had a stable place for the both of us to live I would no doubt keep him. I just feel that with the lack of exercise and are small living quarters every thing would be ruined, not because he is bad just because I don't have the time. I will let everyone know what I decide to do. Thanks again everyone.


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