# Anyone bought a daisy puppy from Jennifer Peterson near Grand Rapids, MI?



## MayumiKaori

*Mods can you please take this down!!!!!!!*

Alright guys, now that I have slept on this, what I want to say is that I got so upset last night because i am just so exhausted from this search and getting my toosh handed to me when it feels so hopeless in me finding a daisy dog...

I feel so hopeless because i feel like everyone thinks I'm totally incapable of feeling nervous by that shady website, i saw the same things you all did, I was just simply trying to look on the brighter side of things.

I don't want to have to order a puppy just based on what it looks like and have it shipped from Oregon or Texxas, I wanted to let the dog pick ME. 

The only dog in my entire lifetime that i ever had that strong personal bond with, I went to see the puppies, and pooh picked me, there was an instant connection, and ever since, every dog i have tried to take in just simply hasnt picked me, and the bond is nonexistent.


Unfortunately the only person i can find close enough for me to get to without access to a car, i take the city bus everywhere i go, is jennifer peterson, so i didnt see the harm in going to her facility and checking it out for myself instead of sitting here guessing and getting more and more upset feeling more and more hopeless. thats all. 

thats why this is such a tender subject for me, im just so tired, and not finding anyone that wants to do anything but criticize my decisions and force me to defend myself.

I'm sorry if i upset anyone last night, but please try to understand, living with a mental disorder and running in circles with nothing but the feeling that everyone just wants to tell you to get a different dog is upsetting.

{[ EDIT ]}

I have contacted Animaroo.com and they have helped me place an ad to be contacted by breeders and they are being very helpful and sending me plenty of emails and phone calls trying to help me find a good match that doesn't need to be flown, as I have a real problem with people who stick an animal in a cage throw them in a cargo area without a comforting hand to calm them when their ears pop and they panick. So, hopefully something good comes out of this.

BUYERS BEWARE:
http://www.texasteacups.com/Information_Page.html


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## ChaosIsAWeim

What in the world is a daisy dog?


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## trainingjunkie

Said to be a small breed non-shedding dog created by mixing several small breed dogs... If you google it, you can find her site.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

So basically she doesn't tell you what breeds go into her mixes, yeah that seems a little shady to me.


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## Keechak

If I was looking for a service animal I personally wouldn't get a puppy from a breeder who doesn't do any health testing or CERF exams on her dogs. You will want this dog for many years of service work, you would be wise to stack the odds for good health in your favor by going to a breeder who breeds for health over cuteness.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

What bloodlines? The "founding" dogs had to come from somewhere. So in "protecting" are you even allowed access to health tests and records on each of the dogs in the breeding program? It sounds like a load to me.


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## Rescued

Yeah I'm a volunteer service dog trainer and organizations health test for a reason. I can't imagine having a service dog that hadn't at least had OFA and CERF as a MINIMUM (or the parents have had it)


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## Rescued

right, thats all good and fine, but why not just publish the health tests done on the daisy dog parents? I dont understand why anyone wouldn't post the results if the dogs are "healthy"... you dont have to put down a breed to do it.


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## Keechak

So her dogs have been known to develop hip dysplasia, is that something she x-rays for before breeding or was your dog having it just a fluke? Dogs are born with the genetics to develop hip dysplasia BTW so it is a genetic health condition that runs in families.


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## Keechak

Rescued said:


> right, thats all good and fine, but why not just publish the health tests done on the daisy dog parents? I dont understand why anyone wouldn't post the results if the dogs are "healthy"... you dont have to put down a breed to do it.


My breeder doesn't list health testing results on her webpage, but they are available for viewing on the OFA website.


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## beretw

She's breeding little mutts when there are shelters full of little mutts. They're not being bred for any purpose other than companionship--almost any breed/mix/street mutt can make a wonderful family pet. Furthermore, she calls the lineage a "recipe" and will not disclose the breeds behind these dogs.

I would never, EVER support this breeder.


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## Rescued

Keechak said:


> My breeder doesn't list health testing results on her webpage, but they are available for viewing on the OFA website.


Thats what I meant. As long as you can find them on the OFA site- I would be more suspect of a breeder who had "results" on her site that you couldnt find in the OFA database, than the other way around.


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## Keechak

beretw said:


> She's breeding little mutts when there are shelters full of little mutts. They're not being bred for any purpose other than companionship--almost any breed/mix/street mutt can make a wonderful family pet. Furthermore, she calls the lineage a "recipe" and will not disclose the breeds behind these dogs.
> 
> I would never, EVER support this breeder.


I'm not sure what the dogs being mixed breeds has to do with the price of tea in china personally. If they are good at what they are bred to do, companionship, then they have as much a reason to be bred as any purebred companion breed as long as all the health testing is in order.

However the fact that the breeder in this case doesn't disclose pedigree on her dogs would scare the crap out of me as a buyer.


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## Rescued

MayumiKaori said:


> Actually we didnt get our daisy from her when i was a kid, we did get THAT one from a backyard breeder on a farm and he was born with a heart murmur. But see, I am not a stickler for purebreds or anything like that, I am going for an animal I can REALLY connect with like I did my past daisy, and the temperment and experiences that I had with him have been largely true, and true all around from every person i have talked to that owns one. I have never bonded with another dog the same way since, so I'm going with the daisy. The hip displasia did not come from HER bloodlines, LET ME REPEAT THAT FOR EVERYONE JENNIFER PETERSONS DOGS DO NOT HAVE HIP DISPLASIA THAT WAS MY PUP WAY BACK IN THE 1990's. Even so, I got nearly 20 years out of that dog, and thats just fine by me, I need a best friend so that I'm not alone so much with my mental disorder. What matters to me is the personality traits and the bond with the puppy, not necessarily its genes.
> 
> Also i wanted to go with a mutt that HASNT been abused or neglected and would not be a rehabilitation case as the extensive training it takes to cure those issues is too much for me to handle. I just rehomed a rescue for that very reason, it had emotional scars i could not help it with, which is why i want to go with a breeder, and she is the only daisy breeder.


AllI'm saying is that if you get attached to a puppy whose quality of life is cut short by a preventable illness that breeders can test for and prevent.... that would be awful. Imagine having a service dog that needed constant vet care for early onset arthritis caused by elbow dysplasia, that ran into walls because it couldnt see due to the parents not being cerf tested, that bled out during a routine spay because of Von Willebrands, that never heard your voice because nobody bothered to do baer testing...

These are the kinds of conditions that responsible breeders test for- to make sure that the puppies that they place with deserving, loving owners like you are healthy and have the best start possible. designer dog, daisy dog, purebred- all of them deserve to be bred by breeders that are using all available testing methods to assure that they are decreasing (and in some cases eliminating) the risk of one of their pups having to suffer from a preventable illness.


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## Laurelin

I would not buy a dog from someone that wouldn't disclose what went into that dog. 

And honestly, how do you know your dog back in the 90s was a 'daisy dog' if it didn't come from this breeder and you have no idea what breeds go into her dogs?


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## mashlee08

It's not a breed. Its a mix.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

beretw said:


> She's breeding little mutts when there are shelters full of little mutts. They're not being bred for any purpose other than companionship--almost any breed/mix/street mutt can make a wonderful family pet. Furthermore, she calls the lineage a "recipe" and will not disclose the breeds behind these dogs.
> 
> I would never, EVER support this breeder.


If it's little scruffy mutts with no health testing the OP wants, I'm only about 40 minutes away and there are at least 10 scruffy mutts at my work.


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## beretw

Keechak said:


> I'm not sure what the dogs being mixed breeds has to do with the price of tea in china personally. If they are good at what they are bred to do, companionship, then they have as much a reason to be bred as any purebred companion breed as long as all the health testing is in order.


So if I were to find two unaltered sheltered dogs with great temperaments then ran PennHip and CERF, would I be justified in breeding those two dogs?

Where is her proof that the dogs she's breeding are worthy of being bred? How would any potential buyer be able to expect that the sire and dam would breed true?


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## Laurelin

MayumiKaori said:


> I heard from one person who met someone who purchased from her and they didn't trust her but HAD TO ADMIT THE DOG WAS THE MOST WELL BEHAVED AND LOVING DOG THEY HAD EVER MET which is what I tend to care about, not the pedigree or type of dog or credentials, just a best friend so im not alone, something to accept me without judgement as none of you have the ability to do obviously, I had a simple request to respect the breed that I have chosen. I guess this is just going to backfire on me anywhere I go looking for help. If you are only here to try to convince me otherwise PLEASE LEAVE I REQUESTED THE ASISSTANCE OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE PURCHASED FROM HER. thank you . . .


Any dog can be well behaved and loving. Summer is about the most well behaved and loving dog I've ever met. She's done therapy work. She's fantastic. 

You can find a loving dog just about anywhere. Well behaved comes with training.


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## Keechak

From someone who wants a SERVICE dog and not just a pet I am rather shocked that you would not take pedigree(mutt or purebred doesn't matter to me) and health history and ethics of the breeder of choice in very high regard.


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## beretw

Laurelin said:


> Any dog can be well behaved and loving. Summer is about the most well behaved and loving dog I've ever met. She's done therapy work. She's fantastic.
> 
> You can find a loving dog just about anywhere. Well behaved comes with training.


Yup. This exactly. 

The breeder is just catering to people who don't understand that dogs aren't born trained and well-mannered.


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## Canyx

What bothers me about this breeder is the fact that she's trying to sell off something ordinary as extraordinary. She is breeding small, well rounded dogs that don't shed. You don't need a 'secret dog formula' to get that. Maybe she actually is breeding responsibly (though as a person who knows next to nothing about this, I still don't get that sense from her website). But people can still get the same outcome (well trained, friendly, small, good temperament companion) from a good miniature poodle breeder, yorkie breeder, even that fluffy mutt at the shelter. 13-17 years? That's an average for MANY small dog breeds. And even if she doesn't want to give away her bloodlines, it wouldn't hurt to post the health certificates of parents without breed information, right? But instead, just four pages of cutesy photos and two very long, poorly written pages explaining ('justifying?') her philosophy.


Also, you wrote that you are looking for: "I just want to know how long it took for her to call you, and what she said she charges for the puppies and just other basic information."
And then you wrote: "And she does. I had a daisy growing up as a kid. They are very healthy dogs, and have a longevity of 17 to 24 years I have learned from talking with other owners of daisy's...Anyway, my daisy lived to be 18 to 19 years of age and acted as a puppy his whole life until the last couple years of his life when he suffered from hip displasia."

If you had one, shouldn't you or your parents, or whoever in the family made the purchase, be able to answer those very basic questions for you? It seems like you already have enough "basic information" that you're dead set on your decision. I hope someone here can offer you advice, but it would seem much more intuitive and productive to me just to talk to your family or these other owners. Or, wait for a phonecall back. A responsible breeder would surely get back to you soon enough.


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## mashlee08

Genetics can throw some pretty awesome curveballs, thats the point of breeding pure, less curveballs. 

Its not getting caught up in the pedigree, its easier to predict health, temperament and size when breeding pure bred as opposed to mystery mixes!


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## Keechak

beretw said:


> So if I were to find two unaltered sheltered dogs with great temperaments then ran PennHip and CERF, would I be justified in breeding those two dogs?
> 
> Where is her proof that the dogs she's breeding are worthy of being bred? How would any potential buyer be able to expect that the sire and dam would breed true?


Sorry for confusing you, I was taking the quality of the breeding for granted in my description and should have made that more clear.


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## Avery

Keechak said:


> I'm not sure what the dogs being mixed breeds has to do with the price of tea in china personally. If they are good at what they are bred to do, companionship, then they have as much a reason to be bred as any purebred companion breed as long as all the health testing is in order.
> 
> However the fact that the breeder in this case doesn't disclose pedigree on her dogs would scare the crap out of me as a buyer.


I could not agree with this more. Companionship is just as good a reason as any to develop a breed.



MayumiKaori said:


> Also i wanted to go with a mutt that HASNT been abused or neglected and would not be a rehabilitation case as the extensive training it takes to cure those issues is too much for me to handle. I just rehomed a rescue for that very reason, it had emotional scars i could not help it with, which is why i want to go with a breeder, and she is the only daisy breeder.


I'm not going to tell you that you have to get a rescue, because you don't. BUT, I will tell you that despite your bad experience that is not a good representation of rescue dogs. There are tons of people here with rescue dogs that are emotionally healthy and happy.

I'm not going to dissuade you from getting a "Daisy" dog. _However_, I think you should ask this breeder about specific health tests that she performs. I gotta say that the first page you linked puts me off for a couple reasons, namely, this:



Breeder's Website said:


> They don’t tend to be *hyper as pups* or adults.


(My emphasis)

I don't think I've ever heard of a puppy that isn't hyper. Do those exist? Laid back adults, sure, but I don't buy it with puppies. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't had that many puppies.



Breeder's Website said:


> They also say that Daisy Dogs don’t have a typical small dog personality… what they mean by this is that Daisy Dogs are not persnickety little ankle biters, not yippy or yappy, nor snippy or snappy.


And this irritates me to no end but I'll leave that at that.


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## Keechak

mashlee08 said:


> Genetics can throw some pretty awesome curveballs, thats the point of breeding pure, less curveballs.
> 
> Its not getting caught up in the pedigree, its easier to predict health, temperament and size when breeding pure bred as opposed to mystery mixes!


Personally I have seen just as much variation in pure breeds as I have in planned mixed breed litters, Now if your talking about more inbreeding and close linebreeding then yes for sure you will get less variation but then nature can throw some new curveballs as we all know.


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## HollowHeaven

I skipped through the comments because, good god, this should not even be an argument. 


This is a person who is purposely breeding mutts, without a purpose, without a focus, without health or temperament testing, who is being as secretive as possible.
This clearly not a responsible breeder, and for all anybody knows, this is a person who has a basement or a barn full of cages stacked from floor to ceiling full to the brim with scruffy little mutts. Pictures can be deceiving. How many mills are operated successfully because puppies are kept clean and cute and are dolled up and put on the internet?


Seriously, go to a shelter.


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## Canyx

Wow, missed a whole string of comments as I wrote my post. But I agree to all of the below:



Laurelin said:


> And honestly, how do you know your dog back in the 90s was a 'daisy dog' if it didn't come from this breeder and you have no idea what breeds go into her dogs?





mashlee08 said:


> It's not a breed. Its a mix.





Laurelin said:


> *Any dog can be well behaved and loving.*


ESPECIALLY THIS ONE. Look around on the forums and you'll find that many of the dogs here do therapy work, are champions in all different kinds of sports, are great with kids... And a lot of them are rescues.

I promise we're not trying to crush your hopes and dreams. And I also promise there are non-daisy-dogs in the world, MANY of them, that will exceed your expectations if you gave them the chance.
But if you're dead set, then stop rebutting our comments and just wait for someone who has a daisy dog to respond. Don't hold your breath though.


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## beretw

Keechak said:


> Sorry for confusing you, I was taking the quality of the breeding for granted in my description and should have made that more clear.





Avery said:


> I could not agree with this more. Companionship is just as good a reason as any to develop a breed.


I'm not saying that companion breeds are worthless. Quite the contrary.

But why set about creating another one? What about these dogs make them better companions than any well-trained companion breed? Sure, she's creating a dog for a purpose, but what exactly sets it apart from any other companion breed?


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## LoMD13

I've got no absolutely problem with breeders breeding mixed-breeds for the purpose of companionship, but the health testing has got to be there and if it were me buying a pup, I'd also be looking to see them doing stuff like therapy and obedience.


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## beretw

MayumiKaori said:


> Honeslty if that is how you feel that is fine, but i dont NEED to know what all is in them. And how i know is the appearance, hair type, personality traits, and from asking my mother. It is not that difficult to guess some of the breeds in these pups either. Shih Tzu, Maltese, Poodle, and Bichon Friz are a few of them. I mean come on, just think of every small non shedding breed you can and then look at her pictures and you will see traits from each in them, its not like it is rocket science and like I keep saying, I am not like you people who have sticks up their butts about whats in the dog. what is in them does not matter that much to me. the qualities they posess DO.


I don't care if a dog has a pedigree. Mine doesn't. He's a shelter mutt and a rockstar of a dog. 

But OP... do you know how many blends of those breeds are in shelters? Plenty. I can promise you, they can be just as fantastic of a companion. 

Like someone else said, she's breeding mixes that are common with traits that are common and easily attained by proper training and she's marketing this as something special when really, it's not.


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## Avery

MayumiKaori said:


> Honeslty if that is how you feel that is fine, but i dont NEED to know what all is in them. And how i know is the appearance, hair type, personality traits, and from asking my mother. It is not that difficult to guess some of the breeds in these pups either. Shih Tzu, Maltese, Poodle, and Bichon Friz are a few of them. I mean come on, just think of every small non shedding breed you can and then look at her pictures and you will see traits from each in them, its not like it is rocket science and like I keep saying, I am not like you people who have sticks up their butts about whats in the dog. what is in them does not matter that much to me. the qualities they posess DO.


We're not worried about the dogs' _breeds_, we're worried about their _family_. My parents and grandparents have issues with high blood pressure, diabetes, and various cancers. Because of that, I need to monitor my own health because I'm more likely to develop these diseases because I inherited my family's genes.

It's the same with dogs. At the very least you want to see specific health test results for the parents, if this breeder won't tell you which breeds are in your dog*.

*I do find this shady though, and this would be helpful information for an owner, as certain breeds tend to carry the genes for certain diseases.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

MayumiKaori said:


> Honeslty if that is how you feel that is fine, but i dont NEED to know what all is in them. And how i know is the appearance, hair type, personality traits, and from asking my mother. It is not that difficult to guess some of the breeds in these pups either. Shih Tzu, Maltese, Poodle, and Bichon Friz are a few of them. I mean come on, just think of every small non shedding breed you can and then look at her pictures and you will see traits from each in them, its not like it is rocket science and like I keep saying, I am not like you people who have sticks up their butts about whats in the dog. what is in them does not matter that much to me. the qualities they posess DO.


I own three mutts and have a foster mutt. I couldn't care less about what is in a dog if that's the dog I want. What matters to me is where they come from. It's not rocket science to choose a breeder that properly health tests and breeds (and there are mixed breeders who do this) vs. one that does not.


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## Canyx

MayumiKaori said:


> It is not that difficult to guess some of the breeds in these pups either. Shih Tzu, Maltese, Poodle, and Bichon Friz are a few of them. I mean come on, just think of every small non shedding breed you can and then look at her pictures and you will see traits from each in them



Why guess?
http://www.animaroo.com/dog-breeds/daisy-dog.html
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/daisydog.htm

When did we ever care about what is "in" a dog? And I assume you mean breed? Have you seen all the comments we've made about rescue dogs? No one knows what's "in" them!
All we have been vouching for is QUALITY. And we are saying you can find a worthy companion dog outside of this cutesy bubble too. But now that it seems "Daisy dogs" are mixes of the above three breeds, not just a name developed by this one breeder... There are plenty of shih-tzu, poodle, bichon breeders out there.


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## Avery

beretw said:


> she's marketing this as something special


This also. Her FAQ page makes them out to be magic dogs that have no problems. No shedding! No barking! No slobber! That, probably, above all else makes me wary.


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## beretw

MayumiKaori said:


> If that was the case when I SHOWED UP ID WALK AWAY duh? i mean how is that so hard to understand. im not completely dumb, when i do finally get into contact with her i will ask ALL THE QUESTIONS I NEED TO. like i keep saying guys im not dumb ok, but in order to confirm or deny anything you are all saying i need to contact her. i just wanted to get ahold of someone who has gone through her so that i could find a little bit more out about her and her facility and her practices, WHATS THE HARM IN THAT? INSTEAD I GET ATTACKED!


Nobody is calling you dumb.

What questions would you ask her, exactly?


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## Avery

MayumiKaori said:


> If that was the case when I SHOWED UP ID WALK AWAY duh? i mean how is that so hard to understand. im not completely dumb, when i do finally get into contact with her i will ask ALL THE QUESTIONS I NEED TO. like i keep saying guys im not dumb ok, but in order to confirm or deny anything you are all saying i need to contact her. i just wanted to get ahold of someone who has gone through her so that i could find a little bit more out about her and her facility and her practices, WHATS THE HARM IN THAT? INSTEAD I GET ATTACKED!


I think you got this response because you didn't come here saying that, your original post was asking about prices and other things that most people here would suggest finding out after you've discussed other things such as health and breeding practices.

I know you're feeling attacked but you have to understand that everyone here is a dog lover, and they're looking out for your best interest. We saw a breeder that looked shady and we don't want you to end up heartbroken over a dog whose life will be cut short due to bad breeding.


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## MayumiKaori

We got him on a farm not from jennifer.


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## Laurelin

I just wonder if the breeder isn't telling you the very basic- what is in her dogs, then what else is she not telling you? A pedigree (and by pedigree I don't mean anything fancy, just documented family history) is about the most basic thing you get from a breeder. What is the point in going to a breeder if you don't know the dog's history at all? That's a crapshoot, might as well pick up a shelter puppy. 

There are benefits to going with a known quantity. The usual benefits of going to a breeder are knowing the breed/breeds in your dog so you know what characteristics and potential issues you might face. It's nice to know that my dog's dam and grand dam both lived past 16 and were healthy up until the very end. If the breeder is not giving you any family information, then what is the point? 

It has nothing to do with them being a mix at all, it has to do with a breeder who is not being very forthcoming with their information. I would not buy from a breeder if they would not tell me what it is they are breeding. It's shady.


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## Keechak

Laurelin said:


> I just wonder if the breeder isn't telling you the very basic- what is in her dogs, then what else is she not telling you? A pedigree (and by pedigree I don't mean anything fancy, just documented family history) is about the most basic thing you get from a breeder. What is the point in going to a breeder if you don't know the dog's history at all? That's a crapshoot, might as well pick up a shelter puppy.
> 
> There are benefits to going with a known quantity. The usual benefits of going to a breeder are knowing the breed/breeds in your dog so you know what characteristics and potential issues you might face. It's nice to know that my dog's dam and grand dam both lived past 16 and were healthy up until the very end. If the breeder is not giving you any family information, then what is the point?
> 
> It has nothing to do with them being a mix at all, it has to do with a breeder who is not being very forthcoming with their information. I would not buy from a breeder if they would not tell me what it is they are breeding. It's shady.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## beretw

Of course you should love and enjoy your dog. Nobody is speaking poorly about the dog you have. We (I) are simply criticizing the breeding practices of the kennel you posted. Even if you had gotten the dog from Jennifer, what's done would be done and all that's left is loving and enjoying your dog for years to come.

For example: I love my dog unconditionally. He is amazing and I am proud of him every day. However, if I ever met the people who thought that sticking their two dogs together to make yet ANOTHER pit bull mutt, I would have a few choice words for them. The fact that I have no respect for and a lot of resentment toward my dog's "breeders" does nothing to affect how I feel about my dog.


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## Canyx

MayumiKaori said:


> Why do you feel the need to make me air what I choose to ask a breeder? I mean none of this was supposed to be in here at all, you have all taken this way off topic. i wanted to hear only from people who have been in contact with her and now i dont even know if i would be able to find the perosn in all of this mess if there was one. just stop guys, really. i want to hear from people who have met her and can speak to her character. which none of you can.


No one's _making_ you do anything. I think beretw asked you for your questions so that we might suggest some other questions that are typically asked of breeders. Or just out of curiosity. But by all means, keep your secrets.


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## Canyx

MayumiKaori said:


> I mean none of this was supposed to be in here at all, you have all taken this way off topic.


Though I will admit, this part is strange. Usually on this forum things never go off topic. People answer questions point for point then never post again. No idea why this thread is deviating from the norm...


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## Avery

MayumiKaori said:


> Like i keep saying you all are way off topic, i dont have desire to talk about the questions I'm going to ask I have a desire to talk to someone who has MEET Jennifer, and can speak to her ACTUAL CHARACTER not just guess from seeing the same website i have, why cant you guys respect that? obviously nobody here can stay on topic so I'm done, ya'all are not going to stop posting off of my topic, so obviously im not going to get anywhere. Thanks for nothing. You are all being so disrespectful not sticking to the subject, changing the subject, and NOT STOPPING WHEN ASKED!


A lot can be garnered from her website. While nobody here (yet) has talked with this particular breeder, they are still experienced dog people who are trying to HELP you as they can, by mentioning the red flags that they're seeing.

Edit: That is to say, while it might not be the specific information you were looking for, it's still relevant and I don't think you should disregard it.


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## Candydb

Mayumi all this is breaking my heart. PEACE. I hope someone has the answer to your question and you get your dog. Every one should have a friend.


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## Avery

MayumiKaori said:


> And again, I would address those red flags MYSELF AT THE FACILITY becuase thats the quickest and easiest way to do it. sitting here guessing is not going to conclude much of ANYTHING so all you are doing is upsetting me and MAKING ME CRY!
> 
> I consider it BULLYING THE MENTALLY DISABED WHEN YOU SO BLATANTLY DISRESPECT MY REQUESTS TO ONLY BE CONTACTED BY PEOPLE WHO KNOW HER!


I can assure you that nobody was intending to make you cry or bully you. We can't assume that you see these red flags. Many uninformed people come to this forum, we do our best to inform them. So we pointed out what made us uncomfortable. You could then take this information with you whenever you manage to contact the breeder, and make a better-informed decision.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

MayumiKaori said:


> And again, I would address those red flags MYSELF AT THE FACILITY becuase thats the quickest and easiest way to do it. sitting here guessing is not going to conclude much of ANYTHING so all you are doing is upsetting me and MAKING ME CRY!
> 
> I consider it BULLYING THE MENTALLY DISABED WHEN YOU SO BLATANTLY DISRESPECT MY REQUESTS TO ONLY BE CONTACTED BY PEOPLE WHO KNOW HER!


Uh.. what?


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## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> I just wonder if the breeder isn't telling you the very basic- what is in her dogs, then what else is she not telling you? A pedigree (and by pedigree I don't mean anything fancy, just documented family history) is about the most basic thing you get from a breeder. What is the point in going to a breeder if you don't know the dog's history at all? That's a crapshoot, might as well pick up a shelter puppy.
> 
> There are benefits to going with a known quantity. The usual benefits of going to a breeder are knowing the breed/breeds in your dog so you know what characteristics and potential issues you might face. It's nice to know that my dog's dam and grand dam both lived past 16 and were healthy up until the very end. If the breeder is not giving you any family information, then what is the point?
> 
> It has nothing to do with them being a mix at all, it has to do with a breeder who is not being very forthcoming with their information. I would not buy from a breeder if they would not tell me what it is they are breeding. It's shady.


I think you hit the nail on the head.

I do think breeding small cute dogs for companionship who have good health behind them, and stable predictable temperaments is a worthy enough purpose for breeding. It's just not being done in the right way here, because the buyer doesn't know anything about those pups.


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## MimiAzura

i don't even understand why you are being so aggressive and not wanting to tell us what you would be asking her :/ 
surely its nothing that we haven't all asked breeders ourselves.. 

I understand that you only wanted to hear from people that have been in contact with her, but posting on a forum, you are going to get peoples opinions and since all we have to go off is her website (which is all kinds of dodgy) the responses you are getting are more then justified.


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## luv mi pets

No. Never heard of this breed or breeder. Maybe you can do a road trip and look her up and go see one of her pups for yourself. Lots of websites for a small fee you can do a background check and get an address. 

btw the dogs look what is being called 'teddy bear dogs' Maybe you can get this breed if for some reason this Jennifer has stopped breeding. 

Do you plan on training this dog yourself or have a trainer do it? What type of tasks are you looking for this dog to do? Will this dog be considered a therapy dog or an ESA?


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## Canyx

Just fyi, and I sincerely mean for this to be helpful and not hurtful... Forums on the internet are generally pretty free-for-all, depending on the forum of course. I have seen it way worse than this forum and please believe me when I say that if you think THIS is bullying, and it's affecting your mental health, then I strongly recommend you be careful about forums in the future. Also, on this specific forum, there have been people banned for 'policing' others, such as saying "if you do not stay on topic then don't post." That is simply not the way forums work. But I'm just telling you so you know; I'm in no position to be moderating either.

If you do have any dog related questions in the future, anything from training, to stories, to dog food, you can be sure that the very people "bullying" you will be there to offer advice.


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## MimiAzura

biggest mistake of your life?
seriously XD

no one is even arguing with you :/


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

I'm close enough to visit this breeder. I can definitely do so if you would like.


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## Canyx

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I'm close enough to visit this breeder. I can definitely do so if you would like.


Oh my gosh, could you actually? With all the talk of "daisy dogs" I'm super curious now! Let us all know if you do!


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## luv mi pets

a quick google search shows that daisy dogs are shih tzu, bichon and poodle mixes. That Jennifer Peterson is not the only breeder of these dogs. There are some for sale in Dallas, TX and Iowa.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

Canyx said:


> Oh my gosh, could you actually? With all the talk of "daisy dogs" I'm super curious now! Let us all know if you do!


Absolutely! GR is only about 40 minutes from me. I'll give a call in the morning.


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## aiw

> First of all, even though they are all the same type of dog and come from the same breeds, I am not trying to reproduce them to look or act exactly the same. I’m not requiring them to be consistent in their looks or actions, but I do need to be able to predict their outcome.


This sentence doesn't make much sense to me. If they are not consistent in looks or actions (phenotype and temperament) how can she predict the outcome and claim all those wonderful things about the puppies?


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## aiw

Isn't the whole advantage of buying a dog from a breeder that you know the breed composition, bloodlines and health testing? That information is secret _even_ from the potential buyers?

You know as much about this puppy as you would any other dog at the shelter. I'm assuming with a much higher price tag.


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## InkedMarie

I missed the original post but I would never deal with a breeder who was so secretive. No way. As far as you coming here and expecting "us" to stay completely on topic tells me you must not visit many forums. 
Can someone answer, has she already gotten a dog from this person? I thought I saw the OP say she got a dog from someone else, not this Jennifer?


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## trainingjunkie

She used to have a "Daisy Dog" that her family got from someone else and it was great but is got hip dysplasia in its later years. Now she wants another "Daisy Dog." And she doesn't want any input except from people who have dealt directly with this particular breeder. At least that is how I best understood her position/situation.


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## HollowHeaven

missPenny said:


> She has not gotten a dog from Jennifer yet. She was asking if we had any knowledge of her as a 'breeder' and if anyone had any experience with her. This is Jennifers page for her dogs. http://www.daisydogs.com/
> 
> EDIT: I don't know if she had gotten another dog from someone else, I thought I read something about her having a Daisy dog from someone else years ago, but I could be wrong.


Got it from a farm


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## HollowHeaven

*Re: Mods can you please take this down!!!!!!!*



MayumiKaori said:


> Alright guys, now that I have slept on this, what I want to say is that I got so upset last night because i am just so exhausted from this search and getting my toosh handed to me when it feels so hopeless in me finding a daisy dog...
> 
> I feel so hopeless because i feel like everyone thinks I'm totally incapable of feeling nervous by that shady website, i saw the same things you all did, I was just simply trying to look on the brighter side of things.
> 
> I don't want to have to order a puppy just based on what it looks like and have it shipped from Oregon or Texxas, I wanted to let the dog pick ME.
> 
> The only dog in my entire lifetime that i ever had that strong personal bond with, I went to see the puppies, and pooh picked me, there was an instant connection, and ever since, every dog i have tried to take in just simply hasnt picked me, and the bond is nonexistent.


I'm going to leave it at this.
A "Daisy Dog" is a mutt. The people breeding them, are purposely breeding mixed breed dogs, which shelters are completely overrun with. They are breeding them without doing any health testing or temperament testing. They are not keeping up with their lines (pedigree) and are not keeping up with their buyers. You therefore have the exact same chance of getting a healthy, stable dog as you would getting a dog from a shelter.
If you buy one from this person, you're putting your money into the pocket of a shady, irresponsible back yard breeder, who is doing god knows what to her dogs, who is likely not putting a penny back into them. That makes you just as irresponsible as the breeder. 

Go, to a shelter. They are full of "daisy dogs" and there's nothing wrong with them. 

We're trying to help you. We have your best interests in mind, and the interests of the dog(s). 

You can't replicate your last dog. You can get a dog of the same mix, the same gender, the same color, the same age, but it will not be your same dog. 
Go to a shelter, tell them what you're looking for. Walk the aisle, and wait for that click. It'll happen.


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## MayumiKaori

InkedMarie said:


> I missed the original post but I would never deal with a breeder who was so secretive. No way. As far as you coming here and expecting "us" to stay completely on topic tells me you must not visit many forums.
> Can someone answer, has she already gotten a dog from this person? I thought I saw the OP say she got a dog from someone else, not this Jennifer?


No I do not go on forums at all, i just was trying it as a last resort because I've had such bad luck finding anyone that can help me actually find a good breeder. No I have not bought a dog from Jennifer and do not intend to. I was merely trying to look into her and try to investigate some of the concerns I had with how shady she was being, and to try to judge her for myself instead of just guessing. The dog I was referring to has been deceased for years, and was purchased from a farm when I was very young so I don't remember where it was or how to contact that person. This dog was from way back in the 1990's. The reason I got so upset is becuase I was not looking for people to try to defer me from questioning her or contacting her to find out more information, and definitely not to ask for people to increase my paranoia surrounding her by pointing out in even more extreme ways, my already existent insecurities with this particular breeder. I was merely trying to see if there was anyone who HAS contacted her, and I just wanted to see if anyone who actually did meet with her got a bad impression, or a gut feeling, and what they paid and what their experience with her was. Believe me, if I was to show up there and find out this lady is a backyard breeder desecrating the dog I love so dearly, I would NOT stay silent about it. I would do everything I could to get any breeder that tried to sell me a lemon shut down. I just overreacted yesterday I apologize, please try to understand, it isn't always easy for me to put things into rational and sensible words. So I slept on it and came back to try to set the record straight.


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## InkedMarie

MayumiKaori said:


> No I do not go on forums at all, i just was trying it as a last resort because I've had such bad luck finding anyone that can help me actually find a good breeder. No I have not bought a dog from Jennifer and do not intend to. I was merely trying to look into her and try to investigate some of the concerns I had with how shady she was being, and to try to judge her for myself instead of just guessing. The dog I was referring to has been deceased for years, and was purchased from a farm when I was very young so I don't remember where it was or how to contact that person. This dog was from way back in the 1990's. The reason I got so upset is becuase I was not looking for people to try to defer me from questioning her or contacting her to find out more information, and definitely not to ask for people to increase my paranoia surrounding her by pointing out in even more extreme ways, my already existent insecurities with this particular breeder. I was merely trying to see if there was anyone who HAS contacted her, and I just wanted to see if anyone who actually did meet with her got a bad impression, or a gut feeling, and what they paid and what their experience with her was. Believe me, if I was to show up there and find out this lady is a backyard breeder desecrating the dog I love so dearly, I would NOT stay silent about it. I would do everything I could to get any breeder that tried to sell me a lemon shut down. I just overreacted yesterday I apologize, please try to understand, it isn't always easy for me to put things into rational and sensible words. So I slept on it and came back to try to set the record straight.


Hiya,
Ok, well to inform you, most forums, unless they're anally moderated, allow you to talk about most anything. If you hang around here, you'll see that happens frequently. This is the internet, you can't ask questions and expect people to only post the answers to those and not bring up other stuff. That's not reality, at least online and on forums. 
You mention finding a breeder....this is where this drives me nuts. People shouldn't be breeding mixed breed dogs. There are tons and tons in shelters and rescues everywhere. IMO people who breed mixes are not doing anything right. Now, there are some mixes that are bred purposely, one of them is a BorderJack but I don't know why these are done. I'm not in agreement but thats okay, I don't have to be.
So, when people come here trying to find a breeder of a mutt, it sends up red flags. There is nothing wrong with mutts but they shouldn't, for the most part, be purposely bred. If someone absolutely must breed mutts, they should still do what we here expect of any breeder: do the requisite health testing, have that information available on the pertinent websites. For purebreds, most of us look for dogs that are being shown, participate in some sort of obedience, sports, etc. You want dogs raised in the home with the family. You want reputable breeders. I don't know how someone breeding mutts can be reputable.


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## MayumiKaori

*Re: Mods can you please take this down!!!!!!!*



HollowHeaven said:


> I'm going to leave it at this.
> A "Daisy Dog" is a mutt. The people breeding them, are purposely breeding mixed breed dogs, which shelters are completely overrun with. They are breeding them without doing any health testing or temperament testing. They are not keeping up with their lines (pedigree) and are not keeping up with their buyers. You therefore have the exact same chance of getting a healthy, stable dog as you would getting a dog from a shelter.
> If you buy one from this person, you're putting your money into the pocket of a shady, irresponsible back yard breeder, who is doing god knows what to her dogs, who is likely not putting a penny back into them. That makes you just as irresponsible as the breeder.
> 
> Go, to a shelter. They are full of "daisy dogs" and there's nothing wrong with them.
> 
> We're trying to help you. We have your best interests in mind, and the interests of the dog(s).
> 
> You can't replicate your last dog. You can get a dog of the same mix, the same gender, the same color, the same age, but it will not be your same dog.
> Go to a shelter, tell them what you're looking for. Walk the aisle, and wait for that click. It'll happen.


I am not looking to replace pooh bear, he was everything to me and I will never ruin his memory by putting the love i shared with him aside. As I said, I really was only trying to confirm my suspicions by talking with someone who is experienced with Jennifer, and if it turned out that I didn't trust her, I would most likely be contacting all my local news outlets and gathering all of my dog lover friends to go deal with the situation. I understand everyone wants to help, but its been completely misunderstood what my intentions with jennifer were. just simply to find out about her, not to necessarily support her as a breeder or even buy from her.


----------



## MayumiKaori

InkedMarie said:


> Hiya,
> Ok, well to inform you, most forums, unless they're anally moderated, allow you to talk about most anything. If you hang around here, you'll see that happens frequently. This is the internet, you can't ask questions and expect people to only post the answers to those and not bring up other stuff. That's not reality, at least online and on forums.
> You mention finding a breeder....this is where this drives me nuts. People shouldn't be breeding mixed breed dogs. There are tons and tons in shelters and rescues everywhere. IMO people who breed mixes are not doing anything right. Now, there are some mixes that are bred purposely, one of them is a BorderJack but I don't know why these are done. I'm not in agreement but thats okay, I don't have to be.
> So, when people come here trying to find a breeder of a mutt, it sends up red flags. There is nothing wrong with mutts but they shouldn't, for the most part, be purposely bred. If someone absolutely must breed mutts, they should still do what we here expect of any breeder: do the requisite health testing, have that information available on the pertinent websites. For purebreds, most of us look for dogs that are being shown, participate in some sort of obedience, sports, etc. You want dogs raised in the home with the family. You want reputable breeders. I don't know how someone breeding mutts can be reputable.


As long as the credentials and health tests are there or done by request I would be fine with getting it from a breeder, who also has a guaruntee that is more than one year. I got so upset becuase I was being flooded with so much info that I was NOT looking for that I was having an anxiety attack that I would miss that one person if they did come along that actually had the info I was looking for. What happened yesterday was an anxiety attack, an episode linked to my mental condition.

I just have severe anxiety in getting a shelter dog becuase ive adopted from shelters before and i have ended up with dogs with severe neglect or abuse anxieties and just to see an animal run and cower in fear for no reason break my heart and sends me into episodes, that is why I wanted to go with a breeder, so that the history behind the dog is mine and mine alone to decide.


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## aiw

I'm sorry if we caused an anxiety attack. I'm sure that wasn't intended. People here just care a lot about dogs and get a bit upset when they see a breeder taking advantage.



> People shouldn't be breeding mixed breed dogs.


I disagree with this completely (you will find lots here who do).

I have no problem with a breeder breeding mixes and I also have no problem with someone breeding just for companionship purposes. Here is what I would look for in a breeder (several of the key things are missing from the "daisy dogs")
- Upfront about pedigrees, breed composition and bloodlines: the big advantage of going to a breeder is you can see both parents, often even grandparents and can see for yourself the health and temperament of the dogs. You can ask how long their relatives lived, what they died of, how active they were etc. You know breed composition so you know what the likely health issues are and you can ask the breeder if she performs the necessary health testing

- Health testing: each breed has specific issues to look out for (another reason you must know the breed). Generally OFA and CERF as well as patella (and probably others depending on the specific breed) are done on small dogs like the "daisy dogs". Those test results should be available to you as a buyer. Don't just take the breeders word for it, look up on the OFA/CERF website and ask to see the test results for the parents. This will help ensure healthy puppies. Its considered standard practice to do these tests for responsible breeders

- Breeding plan: you want to ask what specifically they are breeding for, _especially_ if they're breeding mixes. What energy levels, temperament, structure. Don't just be satisfied with "we wanted to make the best companion!" because "best" means different things to practically everyone. You want to make sure their definition of "best" matches yours.

- Be careful of anyone who claims the dogs are perfect (No shedding! No barking! No slobber!) - people can't reasonably make promises like that about dogs. Its usually the one's who don't follow up with their puppies (to see how they actually turned out) or people who are trying to take advantage who make those promises. A dog is a living thing, they bark, even if they have hair not fur they have allergens and they drool. Someone who claims they absolutely 100% don't do those things are lying to you.

- Other stuff to look out for: Living conditions: you want to actually see them, otherwise you might accidentally be supporting a puppy mill or bad breeder. Contracts and breeder involvement: its usually a good sign when the breeder wants to be a resource for the buyer and asks for assurance that you will return the pup instead of sending it to a shelter. It shows they are really invested in their dogs for their whole lifetime and are not just in it for the money. 

Everyone has a slightly different list for a "good breeder" but those are the big ones (especially 1 - 3). If you need breed or breeder recommendations specifically I'm sure someone will help you out here on the forum. Good luck!


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## MayumiKaori

aiw said:


> I'm sorry if we caused an anxiety attack. I'm sure that wasn't intended. People here just care a lot about dogs and get a bit upset when they see a breeder taking advantage.
> 
> 
> I disagree with this completely (you will find lots here who do).
> 
> I have no problem with a breeder breeding mixes and I also have no problem with someone breeding just for companionship purposes. Here is what I would look for in a breeder (several of the key things are missing from the "daisy dogs")
> - Upfront about pedigrees, breed composition and bloodlines: the big advantage of going to a breeder is you can see both parents, often even grandparents and can see for yourself the health and temperament of the dogs. You can ask how long their relatives lived, what they died of, how active they were etc. You know breed composition so you know what the likely health issues are and you can ask the breeder if she performs the necessary health testing
> 
> - Health testing: each breed has specific issues to look out for (another reason you must know the breed). Generally OFA and CERF as well as patella (and probably others depending on the specific breed) are done on small dogs like the "daisy dogs". Those test results should be available to you as a buyer. Don't just take the breeders word for it, look up on the OFA/CERF website and ask to see the test results for the parents. This will help ensure healthy puppies. Its considered standard practice to do these tests for responsible breeders
> 
> - Breeding plan: you want to ask what specifically they are breeding for, _especially_ if they're breeding mixes. What energy levels, temperament, structure. Don't just be satisfied with "we wanted to make the best companion!" because "best" means different things to practically everyone. You want to make sure their definition of "best" matches yours.
> 
> - Be careful of anyone who claims the dogs are perfect (No shedding! No barking! No slobber!) - people can't reasonably make promises like that about dogs. Its usually the one's who don't follow up with their puppies (to see how they actually turned out) or people who are trying to take advantage who make those promises. A dog is a living thing, they bark, even if they have hair not fur they have allergens and they drool. Someone who claims they absolutely 100% don't do those things are lying to you.
> 
> - Other stuff to look out for: Living conditions: you want to actually see them, otherwise you might accidentally be supporting a puppy mill or bad breeder. Contracts and breeder involvement: its usually a good sign when the breeder wants to be a resource for the buyer and asks for assurance that you will return the pup instead of sending it to a shelter. It shows they are really invested in their dogs for their whole lifetime and are not just in it for the money.
> 
> Everyone has a slightly different list for a "good breeder" but those are the big ones (especially 1 - 3). If you need breed or breeder recommendations specifically I'm sure someone will help you out here on the forum. Good luck!




Now see, you know what, the way that you stated this, and the way you came across to me here I was totally able to read this without any anxiety whatsoever, I just want to point this out. 
Instead of seeming combatant or judgmental like you were right and I was doing something wrong, you started off very respectful and I didn't detect any condescending undertone, which is not common because during my episodes my brain is trained on seeking that out. 
Everything you said was reasonable, I like the point that you made about daisy dogs missing some of your major key requirements. 
I guess I just felt that I had every right to at least look into all of my options instead of just going with a shelter dog right from the start, I wanted to at least explore the rest of the options and see what was out there and if a completely blank slate was even possible, but the puppy mills and mom and pop shops are so rampant that I just don't know who to trust anymore. 
So at this point I would rather go with a shelter dog instead of paying up to 4 thousand dollars for an animal that is not coming from any better or more reassuring of a background. 
I am VERY aware that shelter dogs make great dogs, and that plenty of them are actually turned into service dogs. I just figured that if there was a reputable breeder and I had a chance at a blank slate within a reasonable price range (which i did not find) that it would be a dog much easier to train than one that has to overcome emotional scars. Also it would be easier on me to not have to combat those thoughts of how hard the dogs life may have been, worried i would identify with it for all the wrong reasons. just simply because I know the way my brain works and it is much more of an effort for me to concentrate on the good, and I know the dog does not need my pity, it needs my love and care. So that is why I just thought to at least look into it before making a decision on a shelter dog. 

I now realize that this search in itself has been much more stressful than it would have been to help a dog overcome some obstacles to live a happy life with me. Thank you for helping me see that without making me feel threatened. I am not trying to shame everyone who just didn't know how to communicate with me, nobody knows me so there is no blame to be put anywhere here, that is not what I am saying. I just felt it necessary to acknowledge what did actually help.

Also, thanks to this thread I have received a few personal messages from people in and around my area who know breeders and shelters, so I am really hoping that something comes out of this. I also want to thank the rest of you, and apologize. Even though I had a breakdown, my breakdowns teach me good life lessons that stick with me for years, so, pat yourselves on the backs for helping the mentally disabled without spending a cent in doing so. You have saved a lot of people a lot of money. HAHAHA.


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## aiw

You don't need to go to a shelter if you don't want to, but with the Daisy Dogs you won't really be getting anything more than a shelter puppy would offer. You won't know the breed, you won't know the pedigree and there is no health testing.... There's just not any advantage.

Plus, if she can't even trust you with basic information about your own puppy, why would you trust her about the health, temperament and breeding of these dogs?


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

We'll find you a dog!


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## luv mi pets

Have you contacted a local chapter within your area that trains service dogs? Maybe they can help you in your search for a companion. Good luck in your search and let us know if you find a dog. ok.


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## Rescued

The organization I trained toby with (he was an sd in training) has been using increasing numbers of adult rescues SUCCESSFULLY in their program. They do a regular volhard type temp test and do cerf, ofa, and baer before accepting the dog into their program for training. They've had extremely good results with using the adult mixed breed rescues for a variety of conditions, everything from mobility impairment to ptsd.

it is possible.


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## MayumiKaori

aiw said:


> You don't need to go to a shelter if you don't want to, but with the Daisy Dogs you won't really be getting anything more than a shelter puppy would offer. You won't know the breed, you won't know the pedigree and there is no health testing.... There's just not any advantage.
> 
> Plus, if she can't even trust you with basic information about your own puppy, why would you trust her about the health, temperament and breeding of these dogs?


Yeah this is basically how I feel myself, too.


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## MayumiKaori

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> We'll find you a dog!



I'm sure of it :} now that I have two new friends! ^.^ you and DJEtzel are one the case! Thanks so much, it really does mean so very much to me!


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## MayumiKaori

luv mi pets said:


> Have you contacted a local chapter within your area that trains service dogs? Maybe they can help you in your search for a companion. Good luck in your search and let us know if you find a dog. ok.


Yeah my trainer only knows of one daisy dog breeder in the world was the words that she put, so i assumed she meant Jennifer, but maybe it was just that she isnt familiar with daisy's and did that quick google search that shows jennifer. lol. that was my thought. she seems more like the type of person that works with purebreds or mixes comprised of only two different breeds. Like I see a lot of german shepards in her pictures. Just not mutty mutts like what im lookin for.


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## baileyboo22

I hope it is not too late to respond to this but I want to make a statement defending Jennifer Peterson. We purchased our Daisy Dog from Jennifer Peterson upon the recommendation of 2 other owners and 2 very well respected local vets. Her dogs come with a 5 year health guarantee. Her family started this back in the late 60's. She was very distressed with all the imitations that come with poor genetic background and as a result made a decision to not reveal the mix of the dogs she has for adoption. I know that I was able to see the parents of my pup. I have toured her kennels, seen her welping rooms and referred other prospective buyers to her. All of the families who have adopted their pet from Jennifer Peterson have been more than happily satisfied with their new family member. If you make an appointment to go to Jennifer Peterson she will interview you and you will interview her. She does not want her dogs going to just "anybody." Also, all dogs come spayed or neutered so that there is no chance of being misrepresented. To make a judgement about this breeder with out any real hands on experience is not justified.


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## aiw

baileyboo22 said:


> She was very distressed with all the imitations that come with poor genetic background and as a result made a decision to not reveal the mix of the dogs she has for adoption. I know that I was able to see the parents of my pup. I have toured her kennels, seen her welping rooms and referred other prospective buyers to her. All of the families who have adopted their pet from Jennifer Peterson have been more than happily satisfied with their new family member.


She was very distressed about dogs with poor genetic backgrounds being sold so she decided NOT to reveal her own dog's genetic backgrounds. That just doesn't wash. The public has zero way of verifying the quality or even type of dogs used. Why would a buyer trust her about the quality of her dogs if she can't even trust them with the most *basic* information about them? She doesn't even provide health tests or prove the dogs in any manner.

No way. Trust goes two ways and mills or shady breeders are just praying you'll "take their word for it" about the quality of their dogs. 

There's just no advantage to getting an untested, unproven dog of unknown lineage from a breeder.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

Yeah, hands on experience of what? I'm certainly not going to purchase a dog from her.


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## aiw

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Yeah, hands on experience of what? I'm certainly not going to purchase a dog from her.


Obviously they meant hands on experience of dogs you'll never be able to see or know anything about due to breeder secrecy.

Hands on experience of the untested, unproven, unknown mix of a fluffy puppy that arrives at your door. You can even confirm that it is in fact fluffy and a puppy! What more could you want?


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

aiw said:


> Obviously they meant hands on experience of dogs you'll never be able to see or know anything about due to breeder secrecy.
> 
> Hands on experience of the untested, unproven, unknown mix of a fluffy puppy that arrives at your door. You can even confirm that it is in fact fluffy and a puppy! What more could you want?


It's only a ~40 minutes drive for me so this dream could still come true!


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## Kyllobernese

Daisy dogs sound a lot like what they sell as Mi-Ki dogs. They sound like much the same mix and no two of them look the same.


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## RabbleFox

My grandmother has a Daisy Dog. Presumably from this "breeder".

Its a really, really _nice_ dog. Very sweet. Very caring. Very cuddly. Easy keeper as far as exercise requirements. Not potty trained, though. And don't say I didn't try. She hasn't had any health defects or issues with her patellas, hips, or eyes. But thats probably luck of the draw.

Not completely sure why people invest in such a dog when you could easily adopt something extremely similar in a shelter OR get a responsibly bred small, fluffy "non-shedder".


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

I actually PMed with the OP for a while and had set her up with a dog at my shelter, but unfortunately she couldn't make it due to weather the day of and has since not contacted me again. Hopefully she found a dog.


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## RabbleFox

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I actually PMed with the OP for a while and had set her up with a dog at my shelter, but unfortunately she couldn't make it due to weather the day of and has since not contacted me again. Hopefully she found a dog.


Did you trade your dogs in for Daisy Dogs in the meantime?


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

Like Sham has any trading value.


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## RabbleFox

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Like Sham has any trading value.


He's worth ALL THE DAISY DOGS!


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## luv mi pets

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Like Sham has any trading value.


Oh poor Sham I hope he did not hear you type those words.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

That is no where near the worst thing I've said to him today.


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## luv mi pets

Oh poor, poor Shams. Have Smalls and Jonas put a tongue in your ears so you do not have to listen to such words. How can you say such things to such a sweet innocent dog that is right now looking at me from your signature with such sad eyes. 


let me guess! The same way I kept telling my dogs to knock it off because they thought the siding men were burglars breaking into our house. And more coming tomorrow when they come back to finish. Yippee.


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## Doggle

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> What in the world is a daisy dog?


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## Effisia

Doggle said:


>


Oh man, that face! I can just hear that dog saying "Why? No, seriously, why?"


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## baileyboo22

aiw said:


> Obviously they meant hands on experience of dogs you'll never be able to see or know anything about due to breeder secrecy.
> 
> Hands on experience of the untested, unproven, unknown mix of a fluffy puppy that arrives at your door. You can even confirm that it is in fact fluffy and a puppy! What more could you want?


I would say that over 20 years of experience, countless testimonials, a five year genetic health guarantee and very happy families qualifies for valid "hands on experience." The very fact that puppy mills got active in these designer dogs is the reason Jennifer Peterson practices "breeder secrecy".Too many untested unqualified breeders are duping the public with these concocted breeds with no experience or qualifications. Her breeding stock is on her farms and we walked right past them over 4 years ago when we were on site. Jennifer Peterson is also very particular about where her pups go. As mentioned before , two local vets( and not in Grand Rapids or anywhere near there) that I questioned said they have many clients with Daisy Dogs and have nothing but compliments about the quality of the dogs. I have had 4 Yorkshire terriers in the past , all came with papers galore, lots of verbal marketing and great lineage. The information on where to adopt came from local Yorkshire terrier clubs. One died in 2 weeks and the other developed a genetic kidney disorder. The point of my continued response is the unfair treatment of a breeder based on your personal platform. And as far as I know, all dogs currently recognized by a given breed name started out as a mutt somewhere.


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## aiw

baileyboo22 said:


> I would say that over 20 years of experience, countless testimonials, a five year genetic health guarantee and very happy families qualifies for valid "hands on experience."


So you personally have handled these dogs for 20 years? Because as you say, if you haven't you really haven't the ability to judge. You're not saying anything new here, you just read the website same as us. If she wants to be regarded by the public as a responsible breeder she should show evidence of responsible breeding practices. She hasn't, and anonymous protests over the internet don't change that.



> The very fact that puppy mills got active in these designer dogs is the reason Jennifer Peterson practices "breeder secrecy".Too many untested unqualified breeders are duping the public with these concocted breeds with no experience or qualifications.


The irony is just too much. Showing, proving in some manner at the _very least_ health testing. These are breeder basics. Can't get any more untested and unqualified than that.

Looks she can do as she pleases, I don't think any of us are planning on showing up with pickets. But dogs with no health testing, no show history, not proven in *any* activity, not proven sound in any manner, of unknown breed mix *and* unknown ancestry.

No. That is not responsible.


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## baileyboo22

aiw said:


> So you personally have handled these dogs for 20 years? Because as you say, if you haven't you really haven't the ability to judge. You're not saying anything new here, you just read the website same as us. If she wants to be regarded by the public as a responsible breeder she should show evidence of responsible breeding practices. She hasn't, and anonymous protests over the internet don't change that.
> 
> 
> 
> The irony is just too much. Showing, proving in some manner at the _very least_ health testing. These are breeder basics. Can't get any more untested and unqualified than that.
> 
> Looks she can do as she pleases, I don't think any of us are planning on showing up with pickets. But dogs with no health testing, no show history, not proven in *any* activity, not proven sound in any manner, of unknown breed mix *and* unknown ancestry.
> 
> No. That is not responsible.


The sales contract states , in case of death of your pup before 5 years ,that the definitive cause of death will be determined by Michigan State University Vet School of Medicine( a premier school for vets I might add.). I would suggest that validation offers a high degree of confidence in your pup and your breeding ancestry. I , personally, view that as a sign of breeder responsibility.

Also, if you actually read what I said I did not express that I have 20 experience with these dogs. But other dogs I have had came with all the hoopla, show title lineage,investigation, local club references and some still had health issues, and died as a result. A dog does not have to be proven in "anything" to be a very good quality healthy animal. 

There is nothing anonymous about these postings. There is no irony in her philosophy. If you have a successful formula you probably are not going to share or reveal it with people who only are in it for the buck.And I am not suggesting I am saying anything new to this forum nor did I just read the website. As an owner of one of these dogs I can speak from personal experience. I did my homework, called vets, talked with customers and I am pleased with the results. My defense is because I do not agree with your opinion.I am not questioning your credentials nor do I care. A personal opinion can be damaging and not very productive and many times misleading.

Forums and blogs are like big coffee klatches.....or a reality show. While they can be a good source of support and information we must all remember that a huge number of response are just opinions. Shouting the loudest and the the number of posts does not make an expert.


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## RabbleFox

baileyboo22 said:


> The sales contract states , in case of death of your pup before 5 years ,that the definitive cause of death will be determined by Michigan State University Vet School of Medicine( a premier school for vets I might add.). I would suggest that validation offers a high degree of confidence in your pup and your breeding ancestry. I , personally, view that as a sign of breeder responsibility.
> 
> Also, if you actually read what I said I did not express that I have 20 experience with these dogs. But other dogs I have had came with all the hoopla, show title lineage,investigation, local club references and some still had health issues, and died as a result. A dog does not have to be proven in "anything" to be a very good quality healthy animal.


Ehh... just because she wants the dead dog looked over doesn't mean thats a good sign. What about dogs who end up with something that isn't life threatening but rather life altering within those 5 years? Luxating patella, hip dysplasia, heart murmurs, etc. Does the contract cover that? Those don't kill a dog. But they can be minimized or prevented using selective breeding. Without posting her studs' and bitches' test results or even saying whether she health tests, we don't know if her stock is even healthy.

Do you know if she health tests her dogs?

Breeding stock should be good at when they do. If they are bred to be companions, thats cool. But you can't just breed one even tempered dog to another. Momma and Daddy dog better have darn good hips and eyes. A companion dog can't be a proper companion with shot knees at age 3.

My "show dog" has had 0 health issues. 0. Perhaps you were dealt an ugly hand of cards with your dogs. Did your previous dogs come from health tested lines?


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## missPenny

Ughh I remember this thread... Daisy Dogs...makes me want to face palm over and over again


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

luv mi pets said:


> Oh poor, poor Shams. Have Smalls and Jonas put a tongue in your ears so you do not have to listen to such words. How can you say such things to such a sweet innocent dog that is right now looking at me from your signature with such sad eyes.
> 
> 
> let me guess! The same way I kept telling my dogs to knock it off because they thought the siding men were burglars breaking into our house. And more coming tomorrow when they come back to finish. Yippee.


Yesterday was pick the cat up by his head day if that tells you any thing. By his head!




baileyboo22 said:


> I would say that over 20 years of experience, countless testimonials, a five year genetic health guarantee and very happy families qualifies for valid "hands on experience." The very fact that puppy mills got active in these designer dogs is the reason Jennifer Peterson practices "breeder secrecy".Too many untested unqualified breeders are duping the public with these concocted breeds with no experience or qualifications. Her breeding stock is on her farms and we walked right past them over 4 years ago when we were on site. Jennifer Peterson is also very particular about where her pups go. As mentioned before , two local vets( and not in Grand Rapids or anywhere near there) that I questioned said they have many clients with Daisy Dogs and have nothing but compliments about the quality of the dogs. I have had 4 Yorkshire terriers in the past , all came with papers galore, lots of verbal marketing and great lineage. The information on where to adopt came from local Yorkshire terrier clubs. One died in 2 weeks and the other developed a genetic kidney disorder. The point of my continued response is the unfair treatment of a breeder based on your personal platform. And as far as I know, all dogs currently recognized by a given breed name started out as a mutt somewhere.


Rabblefox pretty much covered my response, but it sounds like you either are this breeder or you drank the koolaid hard. What qualifications are there to breed dogs? What tests do breeders take to be considered tested and qualified? Does this woman think because she created a scruffy mutt there is no way other people won't create scruffy mutts that look similar? If they're breeding true, she can't release their pedigrees now and not the dogs from her "secret recipe" before? Still sketchy, but better than nothing. 

If you saw the breeding stock, don't you now know the secret recipe? Or does she have folks sign a contract stating if they share any information they will be killed?


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## RabbleFox

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> If you saw the breeding stock, don't you now know the secret recipe? Or does she have folks sign a contract stating if they share any information they will be killed?


From what my grandmother has mentioned about her dog's parents, all the dogs running around her property are little fluffy mutts. No purebred Bichons or Malteses wandering around for you to identify.

The secret is safe with the past...

But seeing as this "secret recipe" is so important, me thinks a kill-you clause is somewhere in the purchasing contract. Look out for the fluffy little dog assassin with a knife in her paw.


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## sassafras

I actually don't have a problem with someone creating a new breed if they think they can fill a niche or whatever. And honestly I don't even really care anymore if someone is intentionally breeding mixes if otherwise I think their practices are sound.

Having said that, after 20 years I would think that daisy dogs would be starting to get relatively fixed as a breed if that was the goal from the beginning. That is, instead of continuing to make the original mixture, she should be able to breed daisy x daisy and pretty much get daisies. Otherwise, daisy dogs aren't any different than any other mixed breeding other than the name she's giving them sounding more legitimate than, say, malti-poo.

And if they are breeding true at this point it kind of doesn't matter what went into them from a perspective of trying to recreate them. If someone says x, y, and z breeds went into developing my new dog breed, nobody else knows if there were 99% x with a dash of y and z or equal parts x, y, and z or whatever. And at some point if you want to be the only person in the world breeding your super secret breed and no one else is allowed to, then that seems like sort of a marketing/monopoly thing to me. Personally as a puppy buyer I would prefer some transparency about the breeds going into my puppy, there are certain problems that might be more or less on my radar based on breed mixture, and secrecy seems sketchy to me.


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## Doggle

Doggle said:


>


Does anyone know what kind of dog this might this be? She/he has eyes very like my first dog, now passed away. She was very smart, very lovable. Also a pain in the bottom when she made her mind up about something, bless her heart. I can see her in this dog's eyes.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest

RabbleFox said:


> From what my grandmother has mentioned about her dog's parents, all the dogs running around her property are little fluffy mutts. No purebred Bichons or Malteses wandering around for you to identify.
> 
> The secret is safe with the past...
> 
> But seeing as this "secret recipe" is so important, me thinks a kill-you clause is somewhere in the purchasing contract. Look out for the fluffy little dog assassin with a knife in her paw.


It makes me super curious to go out there but I just don't have the time to even feign interest in some weirdo's secret farm. I'm totally fine without knowing the lineage of a dog but.. I just go get those ones from the shelter. And these "daisy dogs" look like every other scruffy mutt that I see in shelters. 

If they're breeding assassins they might be interested in introducing Jonas to their lines.


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## RabbleFox

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> It makes me super curious to go out there but I just don't have the time to even feign interest in some weirdo's secret farm. I'm totally fine without knowing the lineage of a dog but.. I just go get those ones from the shelter. And these "daisy dogs" look like every other scruffy mutt that I see in shelters.
> 
> If they're breeding assassins they might be interested in introducing Jonas to their lines.


You've got a stud proposition right thur. I call a puppy! I've always wanted a demon assassin*.

But your fluffy shelter dogs didn't come from the big ole mixing bowl concocted in someone's head! Oh wait...

*Bae is only half a demon.


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## Hellocat

Can't someone just run a DNA test to determine what mix of mutt these guys are? I plan on doing one on my shelter dog- mainly out of curiosity.


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## RabbleFox

Hellocat said:


> Can't someone just run a DNA test to determine what mix of mutt these guys are? I plan on doing one on my shelter dog- mainly out of curiosity.


They are expensive and inaccurate.

Feel free to do it for fun! Its not something you can rely on, however.


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## aiw

baileyboo22 said:


> A dog does not have to be proven in "anything" to be a very good quality healthy animal.


Yes, you can get a healthy dog of unknown mix, heritage and health clearances from a shelter. Why you'd shell out for a breeder pup without any of the advantages of responsible breeding is beyond me.



> My defense is because I do not agree with your opinion.I am not questioning your credentials nor do I care. A personal opinion can be damaging and not very productive and many times misleading.


So your concern here is marketing? I have to agree with TWAB that you're either the breeder herself or really drank the koolaid. Kindof odd you would join the forum *just* to necropost on a thread critical of her breeding practices. If you think untested, unproven dogs of unknown breed mix and unknown lineage is responsible breeding that's your call. If that's the dog you want well that's the dog you can (and did) get.

As for my opinion, everything about those practices screams irresponsible backyard breeder to me. Why on earth would the general public regard her as responsible when she makes every effort to hide her breeding practices? No thanks. There are enough mills, fronts and BYBs hoping you'll just take their word for it. No one advertises their pups as 'Sickly!' 'Not Health - Tested!' 'Unknown mix!' 'Unsound!' 'Unproven!'. 

There is a reason we always suggest checking your pup's pedigree, their parents' health clearances, showing for an indication of soundness or type, proven in *some* field. You can't ask for trust and refuse to give it in the same breath. If she posts verifiable, transparent, responsible practices then I would regard her as such.

She doesn't. So I don't.


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## aiw

Doggle said:


> Does anyone know what kind of dog this might this be? She/he has eyes very like my first dog, now passed away. She was very smart, very lovable. Also a pain in the bottom when she made her mind up about something, bless her heart. I can see her in this dog's eyes.


Looks like a Pom mix to me. Actually he has Pete's face almost exactly, he's a rescue pup but I'm pretty sure he's a Pom/JRT - maybe with some sheltie or Yorkie in there somewhere.


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## Crantastic

Yep. Like sassafras, I've relaxed my stance on breeding mixes. I think there is actually a shortage of small, low-to-moderately active, low-grooming-needs companion breeds out there (many little dogs are actually rather high-maintenance when it comes to activity or coat care), so if someone wants to breed mixes to fill a niche, more power to them. HOWEVER. I would want all of their dogs to be health tested so that I knew they were free of genetic issues and that they were sound (What is a sound dog?). I would want to know which breeds were used, because that makes a difference when it comes to health and (especially) temperament. 

Also, don't kid yourself that this woman is trying to develop a breed. If she were, she would have to have been keeping a stud book from the very beginning. She'd have to disclose her "formula." She'd have to start a breed club, write a standard, ensure that people bred to that standard, and oh yeah -- actually work with other breeders. She'd have to work to get recognized by a legitimate registry like the UKC or the AKC FSS program.



> The American Kennel Club considers requests to enter FSS® from breed clubs or individual fanciers of a breed. Those wishing to pursue recording with FSS® must:
> 
> Fill out a questionnaire for new breeds. Email: [email protected] for questionnaire.
> 
> Provide a written breed history documenting the distinct breed over a period of many decades. This should include details on any foreign and/or domestic organizations that register the breed. The source of the historical information must also be provided.
> 
> Provide an official written breed standard, indicating the origin of that standard. If the standard differs from the official breed standard in the breed country of origin please specify those differences.
> 
> Provide photographs of the breed, including puppies and adults, as well as both dogs and bitches. If there are different accepted types in the breed, photographs of each type should be included and labeled as such.


I also don't understand the point of keeping the breed mix secret. If I wanted to, I could easily breed mixes that looked like the Daisy dogs and simply claim they were "real" Daisy Dogs, and I'm sure I could fool a lot of people. I wouldn't need to know the actual "recipe." There's more to be gained from transparency than there is from secrecy.


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## Doggle

aiw said:


> Looks like a Pom mix to me. Actually he has Pete's face almost exactly, he's a rescue pup but I'm pretty sure he's a Pom/JRT - maybe with some sheltie or Yorkie in there somewhere.


Ok, thanks!


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## Daisy Dog Health Issues

We had our beloved Daisy dog from Jennifer Peterson for 5 years. She was the heart and soul of our family. When she was five years and one month old, she suddenly became gravely ill. After two visits to our vet in three days with concerns of odd and alarming behaviors, she suddenly could not move her back legs. We rushed her again to the vet who then recommended a neurologist. After a spinal tap and MRI, it was determined she had idiopathic GME, a form of encephalitis caused by an unknown origin (not a germ, so not treatable with medication). We were willing to pay any amount to help her recover, but it was determined that without sedation, she had uncontrollable seizures. My three kids, husband and I were all overwhelmed and devastated to have to put her to sleep. 

Two of our neighbors got puppies from Jennifer around the same time as us. All three puppies, while from different litters, had the same father dog named Huckleberry. Those two dogs have both suffered terminal cancer, one at age 7 and the other at age 8. Both had expensive chemotherapy treatments and medications.

While they are wonderful companion pets, please be aware that you and your family may become very attached, and then have something devastating happen. 

We did share all of our neurology reports with Jennifer. She did not ever personally respond to us. We received a very short and unsympathetic response from one of her assistants via email. She had no interest in what happened to our Daisy. Beware!


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