# Papillons!!



## PappyMom

*Hey! I've noticed there are a tonnn of Pappy moms&dads on here, so I was hoping to make this thread dedicated to our very special furry butterfly breed. Please post pics of all your Paps and tell us what makes them so unique, so that my fiance and I (and my two little goobers) may go googoo over your babies!! *










*That's Gizmo, my one year old bubba boy. The absolute light of my life. When you go to pet him, he absolutely has a lickfest with your hand. He just loves to be loved..and even more to be pampered. He'll fall asleep getting combed, bathed, blow-dried, or his nails clipped..you'd think he was at a doggie day-spa.*










*And that's my princess, Roxy. She's 9 weeks old, and we're still trying to figure out her quirks. She loves to cuddle..and can't sleep unless she's perfectly in the middle of my fiance and I. I need to take a better picture of her, but I just loveee her colors. Her half and half nose is adorable, and she has black spots on her back and tail base that if you move them upward, are brown underneath.. I can't wait to see what that may look like once she loses her puppy coat!*


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## Laurelin

I just have to say your two are gorgeous! I will have to post pics of my crew in the morning. Gizmo is awesome. I love the white faced mismarks.


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## Bonn1997

As soon as I saw this title, I knew Laurelin would be happy!


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## MissMutt

Bonn1997 said:


> As soon as I saw this title, I knew Laurelin would be happy!


Same 

I don't have a Papillion so I'll just sit back and watch y'all post your cuties..


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## Blizzard

Bonn1997 said:


> As soon as I saw this title, I knew Laurelin would be happy!


Naturally When you think of papillions, you think of Laurelin.
Cute dogs, btw.


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## Laurelin

Blizzard said:


> Naturally When you think of papillions, you think of Laurelin.
> Cute dogs, btw.


Are you guys saying I'm obsessed? lol

Here are my four:










Summer is the oldest, she's 5 and a hyperactive slightly ocd little dog. She's crazy but so cool though and she's my best friend. We do agility together, which has been a learning experience for both of us. She's my heart even though I've only had her a year. We're inseparable.










That's Beau, the first papillon I've ever owned. He's nearly 5 and just a goofball. He has the weirdest sense of humor (he delights in putting things on his head then walking into walls). He's very intuitive and very bright and knows way way too many words and full sentences. I swear he understands too much. He's single handedly caused many of my friends to get papillons. Beau's quite the charmer and probably the 'best' all around dog I've had. He made me fall for this breed. He was also my first show dog and finished up his championship in just a few shows. He's retired now.










This is Rose, Beau's half sister. She just turned 4. We got her after she was returned to her breeder. Her first home was a bad situation and she still has some issues from that. She's quite shy but once she warms up to you, she's the sweetest thing. She is just an angel, full of love. She has the split nose too, half her whiskers are white and the other half are black.










And then we have Bernard aka the Nard. Nard is 13 months. He is a terror (that's putting it nicely) but he's finally settling down. He has the shortest attention span of any dog I've had and he lives to play fetch and chew up everything. He makes up for it by being very sweet and adorable. He's always making me laugh because he's SO serious about everything. He's very quiet but when he makes noise he doesn't bark, he makes a monkey chattering sound or he bays like a hound dog.

They're really the best dogs and such CHARACTERS. I will always have at least one for sure. Hopefully the other pap people will post pics of theirs too.


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## reverend_maynard

Here's my Bindi...

When she was about 5 months...









1 year later...









I don't have any recent ones on this computer, but I'll tyr to get them up soon.


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## ladyshadowhollyjc

Aww what cute papillons!!
I'll have to post some of mine later when I have more time.


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## Puppy_love_122

They're all so cute! Paps are one of the only small breeds I ever see myself owning.


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## K9companions

Beautiful pictures everyone! I knew I'd find Laurelin here.


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## nickjuly

Here's my baby "REMY" born this past November. Sorry poor quality on the pic with him licking my daughters toes but she took the shot. Haven't loaded more since we just got a new computer. He is the sweetest dog I have ever had. So very loving. Honestly if my husband would let me I would have a lot more of these dogs. 

Recent








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baby pics








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## PappyMom

Some more of Gizmo and Roxy. I really need to bust out the camera and take some better ones.. Keep the pics coming, guys!!! This is my absolute favorite!!










My little G-boy.










Roxy, and all her cute fluffiness.










Peek-a-boo.










5 more minutes, mama?


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## PappyMom

I've got my Radar ears on, mama! I won't let anybody getcha!










Last but not least, Gizmo's puppy pic.

By the way, Laurelin, your pappy's are lovely little posers..and what awesome fringe on all of them!!

Reverend, Bindi is PRECIOUS!! Hold onto her tight, I think I am going to come puppynap! LOL..

Ohhh, Remy!! You are next!! I want a black and white pap next, and your ears are just big and lovely!


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## lucygoose

Oh, I love the paps!! Thanks for starting this thread!! I don't get much time to pop in alot here. But glad this thread caught my eye!! What precious paps you have!! I myself will be getting a new baby soon!! Lauren, can you believe it!? Finally!!!!

Here is my Willie in the hosta bed, who I love to death! His sister will be named Claire. She is a mismark, with white in the ear.....isn't she is adorable? Can you tell I am so excited? LOL 

Thanks again.......lets see the paps!


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## Laurelin

lucygoose said:


> Oh, I love the paps!! Thanks for starting this thread!! I don't get much time to pop in alot here. But glad this thread caught my eye!! What precious paps you have!! I myself will be getting a new baby soon!! Lauren, can you believe it!? Finally!!!!
> 
> Here is my Willie in the hosta bed, who I love to death! His sister will be named Claire. She is a mismark, with white in the ear.....isn't she is adorable? Can you tell I am so excited? LOL
> 
> Thanks again.......lets see the paps!


Congrats!!! She's ADORABLE.



> By the way, Laurelin, your pappy's are lovely little posers..and what awesome fringe on all of them!!


Thanks! Beau has had all his chewed off by Bernard lately. He used to have a ton more. Here he was a year ago.










I've found puppies have a tendency to pull fringe off.


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## PappyMom

Laurelin said:


> I've found puppies have a tendency to pull fringe off.


Really? Gizmo doesn't seem to have much, but his is developing, slowly but surely. We took him to the groomer to have a sanitary belly shave and pants trim a couple months ago (I do most of the grooming in between, here..) and they trimmed his fringe against everything I said.. which made me absolutely livid! But yesterday we were admiring his fringe, and talking about what his ears looked like as a puppy, and how we couldn't actually believe that they got even bigger then what they were..lol..

But yeah, I hope Roxy doesn't pull his out..lol..Maybe it's short enough that it won't happen..


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## lucygoose

PappyMom said:


> they trimmed his fringe against everything I said.. which made me absolutely livid!


Why do they do that?? It happened to me ONCE! I took Willie to this foo foo dog store here that a couple people raved about just to see how he did with someone else bathing him and trimming his feet......the gal kept asking over and over....sure you don't want me to trim the ears, or get the DEAD ENDS off??......I kept saying NO.....sure enough, they did it anyway and they were uneven!!.....Never went back.....

Thanks Laurelin!


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## ladyshadowhollyjc

*Holly*
This picture is about 6 months old, and it was right after a bath (she's still wet but you can't really tell), we were doing to brushing phase of bathtime.








Her first birthday, a year ago, (looking a little rough because she had to have a bone removed from her intestinal tract)








Last week on her second birthday... laying in the dirt ewww (it's getting hot!).


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## ladyshadowhollyjc

*J.C.*
A couple puppy pics...

















Last week on his first birthday.








(I don't know why but I love this pic)


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## Laurelin

Here are some of my paps' antics:


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## Laurelin




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## Laurelin

And here's some of the 'extended family' so to speak.

Gigi:










Tango:










Here's what the whole group can look like:









L-R: Tango, Beau, Bernard, Summer, Lilly... I think










I'm not even going to try!


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## Bonn1997

What breed is the "non-papillon" in the bath tub picture? Is he/she yours too?


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## Laurelin

Sorry for the overload of pics.... 

Some older favorites:



















The best pack of guard dogs you could ask for:










Yes, that is my Summer leading the way.


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## Laurelin

Bonn1997 said:


> What breed is the "non-papillon" in the bath tub picture? Is he/she yours too?


Yep, that's my old sheltie. We had shelties a long long time, then kind of 'switched over' to papillons so to speak. He looks a lot better when he's not wet, lol! His name is Trey and he's 13 years old. 










He thinks he's a papillon nowadays, though.


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## Bonn1997

Laurelin said:


> Yep, that's my old sheltie. We had shelties a long long time, then kind of 'switched over' to papillons so to speak. He looks a lot better when he's not wet, lol! His name is Trey and he's 13 years old.
> 
> 
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> 
> He thinks he's a papillon nowadays, though.


What a beautiful dog! I assumed you always and had only Papillons!


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## lucygoose

I love your picture's Laurelin!! The bath tub one is my favorite! I cracked up!! LOL....Thanks!! Makes me want my little girl RIGHT NOW!!


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## briteday

As Laurelin said, "Can't have just one!" We currently have two female papillons and a giant pomeranian sidekick. The two paps are litter mates but came to us 8 years apart. 

And Laurelin, I love the dentition on the paps in the picture where they are "play" snapping at each other. I wish our girls had such well-spaced front teeth and wide arches. Maybe they wouldn't have had such troubles with their teeth when they were younger.

So here's ours...

Cally, acquired at 4 months old because she is a bit tall and broad for the breed standard...










And Pop-It...her little bitty sister!...


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## PappyMom

My fiance and I are in heaven looking at all of these Paps. Laurelin, I loooove your pictures...and I'm astounded at not only all of those papillons/dogs in your house, but also at the fact that you can bathe 5 dogs at once..lol!

It's funny that you switched over from Shelties to Paps. Papillons weren't my first breed of choice either. We had a rescue Shar-Pei, and I only wanted to own Pei's. My fiance is the one who wanted a Pap..so we had the two together. The more I researched the Pei breed, and as my heart was broken by his kidney failure and passing, I could not bring myself to own another one (atleast not unless I won the lottery and could afford to do everything the Pei breed demands). So slowly, but surely, I fell in love with my little Gizmo...then fell head over heels for him and his quirks..then fell absolutely and completely for him, no turning back, when he bit a strange man in our yard..who was up to no good (at 11 o'clock at night, when I was alone on a potty trip for G) and I knew all I wanted was Paps. We have Roxy and G for now..and I want a black and white one, too...and oh lord, I want them all.

I love the one where everyone's holding all of their Paps, too.. How'd you find so many Papillon owners? I cannot find any...not even relatively close to me..Roxy's breeder was an hour and a half away.. Came across one in a Petco once..but other then that, nothing.


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## Dozi

Laurelin you take the most beautiful pictures of your Paps! May I ask what camera you are using? (if you're willing to share your secret? )


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## Snuggles

Oh I love those Papillons. My friend has one and so does another friend. They are so cute. I want one!!!!!!!!!! I think I would be shot if I got another dog though. LOL


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## Laurelin

Sorry I was out of town a while!



PappyMom said:


> I love the one where everyone's holding all of their Paps, too.. How'd you find so many Papillon owners? I cannot find any...not even relatively close to me..Roxy's breeder was an hour and a half away.. Came across one in a Petco once..but other then that, nothing.


We knew a vet that had a papillon and she knew people... the show people also would come sometimes and would tell all their pet owner friends to come. It was a great time. 

Shelties are also good dogs. Maybe one day I'll have another. My heart dog was a sheltie and she passed away just this year. I miss her terribly. I do plan on having another herding breed sometime soon. 



> Laurelin you take the most beautiful pictures of your Paps! May I ask what camera you are using? (if you're willing to share your secret? )


No problem! I use a Nikon D60. I love the Nikon DSLRs


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## reverend_maynard

I still didn't get any newer pictures up, but here's a few more of Bindi to hold you all over...


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## CerbiesMom

Leesa, your new girl is gorgeous! I can't wait to see more puppy pappy pics of her!


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## PappyMom

Aww, thank you, Cerbiesmom!! We are having alot of fun with her, and Gizmo just adores her.. He rolls over with his belly up and lets her climb and play all over him. This is actually the first dog I've seen him allow to share his food bowl and water bowl with.. (of course she isn't allowed by us to eat his food, but she'll sneak a couple pieces in here and there..and we catch her at the last minute, with those two little pappy butts side by side..lol!)


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## PappyMom

Her ears are so lovely..I really hope they turn out as big as Gizmo's. (Right now his ears are almost as big as her whole body..lol!!


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## ladyshadowhollyjc

PappyMom said:


>


Holy crap I had a picture of Holly that looked just like that. That really brought back some memories haha!
Unfortunately it was on my other laptop and got wiped when it had a major breakdown.


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## PappyMom

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> Holy crap I had a picture of Holly that looked just like that. That really brought back some memories haha!
> Unfortunately it was on my other laptop and got wiped when it had a major breakdown.


Aww, awesome. It's funny, on a papillon forum that I belong to, there's another lady who told me that my Gizmo looked just like her old Pap named Holly...I guess my pups like to resemble Holly's. =] Was Holly as dark as Roxy is? Do you think she will lighten up like that? Roxy's dad was kind of dark in the face, and her mom was pure sable..with no black at all. The puppies came out all sorts of colors in the face.. 4 boys and 1 girl...1 little black and white boy (who would've went home with me, if my fiance hadn't yelled at me), 1 sable boy, 1 lemon boy, and a boy with the same colors as Rox..and then Roxy.


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## ladyshadowhollyjc

PappyMom said:


> Aww, awesome. It's funny, on a papillon forum that I belong to, there's another lady who told me that my Gizmo looked just like her old Pap named Holly...I guess my pups like to resemble Holly's. =] Was Holly as dark as Roxy is? Do you think she will lighten up like that? Roxy's dad was kind of dark in the face, and her mom was pure sable..with no black at all. The puppies came out all sorts of colors in the face.. 4 boys and 1 girl...1 little black and white boy (who would've went home with me, if my fiance hadn't yelled at me), 1 sable boy, 1 lemon boy, and a boy with the same colors as Rox..and then Roxy.


She wasn't quite that dark. As she started to loose that puppy fur she started to get lighter, though. I just love how they have the same half white half dark muzzle though... that's really what made me do a double take haha.
This is the best picture I have that shows how dark she was. (excuse the fuzzy-ness)









Here's when she started to lighten up and get rid of all that puppy fur.


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## Laurelin

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> She wasn't quite that dark. As she started to loose that puppy fur she started to get lighter, though. *I just love how they have the same half white half dark muzzle though...* that's really what made me do a double take haha.
> This is the best picture I have that shows how dark she was. (excuse the fuzzy-ness)
> 
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> Here's when she started to lighten up and get rid of all that puppy fur.


Those are the best markings. Rose's isn't exact but she has all white whiskers on one side and all black on the other. Very cute!


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## Dozi

PappyMom said:


> Her ears are so lovely..I really hope they turn out as big as Gizmo's. (Right now his ears are almost as big as her whole body..lol!!


She's adorable... looks like a real little snuggle bunny!


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## jesterjigger

My Jilly...


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## Snuggles

Oh I love the look of those dogs.


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## PappyMom

Jilly is SOO cute!!

Snuggles! Looks like it's time to add a Papillon to your crew!! lol


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## Snuggles

Well maybe down the road sometime. Still have one dog that won't quit wetting in the house.


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## SweetJeannie

I love this thread. All these puppies are so cute!!!

I especially loved the bathtub picture too. That was so funny!!

If i was gonna get another small dog breed other than a pomeranian Paps would be next


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## LilMissSunshine

here is the lil guy im getting august 20th 



















hes about a year and 1/2 old, and is from forevr papillons


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## PappyMom

sunshine, again, he is SO gorgeous! looks like a tiny guy too! did she say how much he weighed? lol, we'll have to keep in touch when you move to CT and get the paps together!


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## LilMissSunshine

lol im not even sure how much he weighs, i should probably ask.. lol he was being raised for show but can't be shown due to a loose knee, doesn't require surgery or anything tho. so hes probably around the normal size range i guess

we NEED to keep in touch, I already can't wait for him to arrive! lol a pappy play date is in order


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## PappyMom

Aww, poor baby, he would have made a beautiful show-pappy! He looks so small, but that's probably just bc my Gizmo is a monster..lol.. We already know that Roxy is going to be tiny..She's almost 4 months, and still just a pound, maybe a pound and a half if we're lucky.

I'll have to research the area, and see if I can find a dog park nearby that we can let them all run around in! (One with a little dog part, because my Rox looks like a chew toy compared to like...every dog! lol)


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## reverend_maynard

PappyMom said:


> Aww, poor baby, he would have made a beautiful show-pappy! He looks so small, but that's probably just bc my Gizmo is a monster..lol.. We already know that Roxy is going to be tiny..She's almost 4 months, and still just a pound, maybe a pound and a half if we're lucky.
> 
> I'll have to research the area, and see if I can find a dog park nearby that we can let them all run around in! (One with a little dog part, because my Rox looks like a chew toy compared to like...every dog! lol)


Can Bindi come?

I've always wanted her to be able to meet some other paps. She's so much smaller than almost every dog we meet, she gets intimidated. Poor thing.


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## PappyMom

of course!! RI actually isn't very far either! lol could be a fun day!


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## reverend_maynard

Cool!

This dog park in Norwich sounds pretty nice...

Pawsitive Park

When is this supposed to happen?


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## Michiyo-Fir

Here's my Nia (full name: Lady Nia Nessa)! She actually has quite a lot of fringe for an 8 month old but these 2 Maltese puppies we play with keeps ripping it off!

8 months old.


















Nia as a itty bitty little puppy.









4.5 months old.









She's quite a big Pap as well. I think she's 10 1/4 inches and 5.5-6 lbs at 8 months old.


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## PappyMom

reverend_maynard said:


> Cool!
> 
> This dog park in Norwich sounds pretty nice...
> 
> Pawsitive Park
> 
> When is this supposed to happen?


The Norwich dog park is HUGE and amazing. Even the little dog section is nice and big. They have doggie swimming pools in the summer, and tubes for dogs to run through..picnic tables, benches, and doggie poop bags everywhere. If we go to this one, I recommend we stay in the little dog section, because Giz can fit through the fence doors in the big one, and he made a beline towards the woods on me once. Silly mister likes to chase me more than I like to chase him though. =P

We'll have to plan it better once she moves up here to CT!

The Norwich dog park is about an hour for me.. 45 mins for her...and I'm not sure what part of RI you're coming from..but I know from my mother's house in Preston to Warwick is about an hour, maybe less.


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## reverend_maynard

It should be a little over an hour for me.

It'll probably have to be on a weekend day if I'm going to make it. We should make it early, before it get's too crowded.

Is the move already planned, or just something that might happen?


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## PappyMom

lol, i believe it is already planned, she said she is moving up here for college.

and yes, that DP gets crowded fast!!


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## LilMissSunshine

Ya the move is planned  lol ill be in CT and all moved in, august 20th!  I don't start school until a couple of weeks after that, sooo I have time  

Count me and in, it looks like an amazing park!


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## reverend_maynard

Excellent! So, maybe, the weekend of the 29th/30th?


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## PappyMom

That sounds perfect to me!


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## LilMissSunshine

I'm trying to figure out how I would get there.. my car isn't being driven up til later but I will figure it out! lol


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## reverend_maynard

I don't know where in CT you'll be, but maybe one of us can pick you up?


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## LilMissSunshine

Ill be in storrs.. kinda in the middle of nowhere but if that could be arranged it would be great! I'll live 1 mile from the uconn campus


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## reverend_maynard

Hmmm...

Not exactly on the way for either of us, it looks like. Oh well, we'll think of something I'm sure.


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## PappyMom

We'll think of something..I'll talk to my fiance to see if he can think of a way!!

Haha, you'll all get to hear my extremely vocal Gizmo...Roxy and G are polar opposites!! Roxy does not make a sound, and Gizmo will talk your ears off..literally.. And he likes to bark at the big dogs until they chase him all along the fence..He's the funniest thing at the DP..but at home he's a big sleepy lug.


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## spugs

Im a soon to be pap man  Im going to visit a pup this week and if all goes well will pick her up on saturday


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## PappyMom

We want pictures!!


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## spugs

Heres a pre collection pic - shes the one on the left









Im hoping to show her (shes show quality and from a good showing breeder). I'm very excited  Shes my first pap so any tips are very welcome! (I have done a lot of research, im not jumping into anything)



















3rd time lucky!!!

Also any good papillon names? My daughters want to call her Daisy


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## PappyMom

She's adorable! Good luck!!

Hmm, I know that I wanted to name my new little girl either Pandora, Lily, or Juliette..but I lost that battle with the fiance and we finally agreed on Roxy..lol..He wanted Jasmine, Greta or Belle.


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## spugs

I like Lily, the kids also like pookie !


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## LilMissSunshine

beautiful pups! Daisy is a cute name, but also very popular, I like pookie  

then again, it usually takes me a week to name a dog. I bring him/her home, choose a name and then change it 10 times and finally settle on one within a week! lol


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## Michiyo-Fir

What a cutie! If I were there, I would want to get both the pups hahha. I have problems with cute puppies hehehe. When I was getting Nia, I wanted to get her other 2 siblings as well and have a whole litter of dogs to myself to play with.

I actually like Pookie too. I wanted to name one of my dogs Pookie but somehow never got around to it.


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## spugs

Theres four of them in the litter thats just the two girls, the two boys are black and white. Im defiantly only getting the one though, but you never know depending on how things go I might add another in the future  Poor Alfie is going to be out numbered!


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## Laurelin

So many cute new paps! I wish my crew could go to a DF papillon get together! We did one here with just the local pap people and it was a blast. We didn't have one this year though.

Spugs, your new girl is gorgeous! She looks a lot like Nard's sister Lilly did when she was young.


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## Michiyo-Fir

I wish we had a Papillon get together here in Canada too.

There are actually very little Paps here. I've only seen 3 in the 4 or 5 years I've been here. Most people just say Nia is a long haired Chihuahua (which makes me a little angry).

It's almost impossible to have a Pap party since we don't have many Paps!


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## reverend_maynard

Laurelin said:


> So many cute new paps! I wish my crew could go to a DF papillon get together! We did one here with just the local pap people and it was a blast. We didn't have one this year though.
> 
> Spugs, your new girl is gorgeous! She looks a lot like Nard's sister Lilly did when she was young.


It's too bad you can't come. Although, if you did come, I have this feeling that you might not be able to find Rose when it was time to leave.


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## Laurelin

reverend_maynard said:


> It's too bad you can't come. Although, if you did come, I have this feeling that you might not be able to find Rose when it was time to leave.


*hides Rose*



> There are actually very little Paps here. I've only seen 3 in the 4 or 5 years I've been here. Most people just say Nia is a long haired Chihuahua (which makes me a little angry).


Most people call mine chihuahuas too. I always joke that I need a shirt that says they are not chihuahuas. I don't know how many times I've been asked that or asked about my Chi. Oh well!

I had only seen one pap outside of dog shows before we got our first. I just know so many through breeders and show people. A few of our friends have also gotten papillons because they met ours. I blame Beau for a lot of people having paps.


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## PappyMom

Oh we've gotten the chihuahua thing, waaay too much here.

Here's a few more pics of the gang. I really need to get some new ones..We're going camping next week so maybe I'll get some good shots.










My little teething princess..










My pretty boy.













Gizmo and his pug cousin, Lily. (ignore the awful tearstains in this one, I skipped a couple grooming sessions. I usually whipe them good and trim them up..lol..


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## Michiyo-Fir

How old is the little girl? She seems to love that chew hahha. Her coloring really reminds me of Nia!

Love your pug too! I've always wanted one but it'll be sometime in my future.


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## PappyMom

3 months, 4 weeks and 1 day.. lol, we're not head over heels for her or anything! =P

My fiance is glad you said she reminds you of Nia, he hopes she lightens up like her, and he thought she was adorable!! (My fiance has a serious love for papillons, he might like them more than he likes me..lol)

And thank you.. Lily is actually my 8 year old sister's pug. My mom has 2 pugs, Lily who is about 9 months, and Anastasia who's about 8 years. We always joke about us having a thing for breeds that start with P. We love Pugs, Papillons, Poodles, Pekingese, Pomeranians..to name a few.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Actually I'm hoping Nia will lighten up too! I'm waiting for the sabling on her head to go away and be replaced by red. I know 90% it's going to happen some day but it's just taking it's sweet time. Might take another year or so.

Nia used to be a lot darker too at 3 something months.


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## PappyMom

AWW, she was so precious! LOL look at that little girl!! She has lovely ears. I know Roxy's probably won't be as big as Gizmo's but our motto when we picked out the pups were 'the bigger the ears, the better'...lol..we have a thing for ears.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Haha thanks! Nia likes to pose for some reasons.

I have a thing for the ears too. Actually recently because Nia's ears are so big and after she got spayed, apparently her hormones changed a little and one ear started to droop! That was about 3 weeks ago and I was literally starting to panic! I started giving a little cottage cheese and it perked up again. Her right ear is always a little softer than her left, I'm not sure why so when she runs really fast, it flops up and down but when she stops, it stays up hahaha.

I hope when she gets a lot of fringe, it won't go down! But according to her breeder, there's nothing to worry about. I sure hope there's nothing to worry about!


----------



## spugs

Aww there all so lovely  We have very few paps in the uk (where i am any way). Ive only seen two outside shows and they belong to the same person. There must be lots of them some where though as they have a high entry as a breed in shows.
Im very excited as Im going to see my pup this afternoon. Im supposed to be picking her up tomorrow as shes not 8 weeks till then. Im going to ask if I can take her today though and see what the breeder says : )


----------



## Laurelin

spugs said:


> Aww there all so lovely  We have very few paps in the uk (where i am any way). Ive only seen two outside shows and they belong to the same person. There must be lots of them some where though as they have a high entry as a breed in shows.
> Im very excited as Im going to see my pup this afternoon. Im supposed to be picking her up tomorrow as shes not 8 weeks till then. Im going to ask if I can take her today though and see what the breeder says : )


Good luck! I don't see why one day would matter really.

Yesterday I got to play with 17 dogs, 15 of which were paps. Four of those were mine of course, but it was fun! I should've probably taken pictures but I forgot my camera.


----------



## PappyMom

Ah! I wish I knew of 15 papillons...or atleast another local owner!! I love watching my two play together, because they play the exact same way, make the exact same noises..like..not quite a growl..more of a play grumble..lol..they both 'stalk' eachother before they pounce and wrestle. I'm just proud of Gizmo cause he's gentle with the baby. We took them to the dog park together for the first time on one of the quiet nights, and a tiny little schnauzer/poodle mix rolled Roxy while they were playing..and she yelped (Not a hurt yelp..though, she does it with G sometimes, I think cause it scares him, and then she pounces on him like nothing ever happened..) lol, but G heard it and he ran right over there..and literally got in the other dogs face like, watch it buster, that's my little sister!! and then went back to running along the fence with the big dogs...and barking..lol..


----------



## spugs

Heres my new pap pup 



















Shes settling in well but has diarrhea so ive spent most of my time cleaning up poo since we got back 

Her back legs seem a little wobbly! Im not sure if its normal for a pap puppy. She seems to bounce about and her front legs are in the air a lot of the time.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

What a cutie! Ahh *smooshes*

Nia's back legs are a tiny bit wobbly as well so I think it's normal. If she doesn't seem to be in pain or anything she should be fine.


----------



## Laurelin

Spugs she's so cute! I'd just keep an eye on her legs but she should be fine. 

So many cute papillon puppies. *melts* Mine's just now 15 months and I want another little baby puppy already!


----------



## spugs

I weighed her last night and at 8 weeks she is 2 1/4 lbs.

Does any one know what kind of weight that will make her fully grown? She was one of the smallest in the litter.

What weights were your paps when you got them and how heavy are they now?

Thanks


----------



## PappyMom

Roxy is tiny. Her mom was 5 lbs, and her dad was 6 lbs. Right now at 4 months old she is maybe a pound and a half, or just under 2 lbs.. Gizmo was a big boy, at 4 months old he was about 4 lbs. Fully grown, he is 10-11 lbs depending on the day and about 10 inches tall.. Eventually during puppyhood, he stopped growing height and weight wise, and just started growing his adult coat.


----------



## Laurelin

I wish I could remember! Beau was 3 lbs or so when I got him. My breeder doesn't let them go based on age but rather size so he was 10 weeks when we picked him up. He's now 7.6 lbs. Nard was tiny as a pup. Probably about 3 lbs when we got him at 4.5 months. He's now 15 months and still under 6 lbs. I think he weighed in at 5.5 lbs last time.

Rose and Summer I got as adults. Summer is tall at over 10 inches (maybe 10 and a fourth) but she only weighs 7.4 lbs. Rose is about 6.5 lbs.

All of mine are really on the small side.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I've been hearing things like the 2 month old weigh will triple and the 3 month old weight will double. According to that, your pup will be 6.75 lbs full grown? I'm not sure how true that is though. Probably not all that credible.

Nia is a slightly bigger Pap too. The biggest of her litter. When I got her at 4 months she was about 4 lbs. Now at 8 months she's 5.5lbs - 6lbs. Probably down to 5.5lbs now since it's so hot here she hasn't been eating that well. She will probably mature to 7.5-8 lbs. She's 10 1/4".


----------



## spugs

We've decided to call our pap Roxy  
She eats everything she finds!! My other pup didnt do this.


----------



## Charis

I love all of the pics! I've always wanted a pap (an adult really) but my hubbie doesn't want one right now. Maybe someday!


----------



## lucygoose

Love all the Pap pictures!! 

Sunshine, I have to say, your new pup looks a lot like my Willie!! Willie is a Wingssong.....Congrats on the new pup!! Have fun!!


----------



## PappyMom

Don't worry, the car was stopped, and we were getting some McD's..lol..


----------



## PappyMom

Roxy really has lightened up ALOT..


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

PappyMom said:


> Roxy really has lightened up ALOT..


Funny thing is Nia lightened up at round 3.5-4.5 months old and darkened dramatically again. I guess she'll probably lighten again but this time at 1.5-2 years old...

By the way, I can see Roxy going through the puppy uglies! She's lost all the baby coat and the adult coat hasn't come in yet hehehe. I always laugh at 'bald' paps. Nia was hideous and skinny around that time too, probably more so than Roxy.


----------



## PappyMom

Ughh! LOL, it's annoying! I keep asking her when she's gunna fluff up again, and she won't answer me. And she's all legs and looks like a skinny minny, even though I couldn't possibly feed her anymore..without her developing some kind of bloat.LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

PappyMom said:


> Ughh! LOL, it's annoying! I keep asking her when she's gunna fluff up again, and she won't answer me. And she's all legs and looks like a skinny minny, even though I couldn't possibly feed her anymore..without her developing some kind of bloat.LOL


I think she looks cute with her hairless tail hahaha. I think around this time, Paps look the most like Chis. 

Adult fur comes in around 5 months at least for Nia it did. Soon you're going to be worried why she has so much darn hair. It's so much easier to bathe a hairless Pap than a hairy one! All the blow drying!


----------



## PappyMom

We've had SO many new Pap owners join, that I just had to get this thread going again!! Please post as MANY pictures as you possibly can. I have a blast going through them all!! <3

Here's some of my stinkers:


















(She's not hairless anymore, WOOHOO!)

Here is the infamous smile that I adore:









In a very classy t-shirt that says 'I do it doggy style' =X:


----------



## PappyMom

How many of your paps do the lazy tongue? :









Gizzard, being well..Gizzard with my little sister:









Roxy, trying to smile as big as Giz:









And a not so princessy-shot:








(PS I am sssooo thrilled to announce that we got new furniture today, WOOHOO! no more ugly couches that don't even match!!)


----------



## PappyMom

Also!! I wanted to add some photos of Roxy's best friend Lexi!! She's a Papillon/Yorkie mix, and 9 months old..and PRECIOUS..with all caps!! hehe!

Body shot with her little yorkie nub:









Anddd face shot:









She's just so cute!! I love that she looks all pap with just a yorkie tail!

Here is a picture of Roxy with Bindi (some of you remember her! she belongs to Reverend_Maynard)









And a picture of Roxy with Bindi's new little brother, Bruschi!:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Hey! How come we didn't get pics of Bindi's brother from Bindi's owner 

And I absolutely cannot believe that Lexi is a Yorkie/Pap! She looks exactly like a pap with a docked tail! I've never seen a yorkie mix that didn't get the yorkie hair genes before.


----------



## PappyMom

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Hey! How come we didn't get pics of Bindi's brother from Bindi's owner
> 
> And I absolutely cannot believe that Lexi is a Yorkie/Pap! She looks exactly like a pap with a docked tail! I've never seen a yorkie mix that didn't get the yorkie hair genes before.


Bindi's owner isn't active on the forum anymore, but we meet up with him for playdates at the park, and we were so thrilled to meet the new puppy. He hit it off with Roxy perfectly, and he was sooo adorable!!

And I've always seen the "Yorkillons" with all Yorkie black/tan fur, and just Pap ears..Lexi is the cutest Yorkie/Pap mix ever!

We want more pics of Nia!!

And Laurrr, where are you!? Mia hasn't been added to this thread yet! LOL


----------



## Snuggles

Oh how cute. Love those papillons.


----------



## Laurelin

PappyMom said:


> And Laurrr, where are you!? Mia hasn't been added to this thread yet! LOL


Lol, I've been wrangling five papillons! I love Bindi's new brother! I knew they wouldn't be able to keep just one very long. 

Here's miss Mia





































I think 5 is about enough though. lol


----------



## nickjuly

Awesome pics everyone!

Heres a couple of Remy in todays snow.



















He would not wear his coat so we just walked around the yard then back in.


----------



## Laurelin

Remy grew up beautifully! He's gotten so much bigger. You need to post pictures of him more often.


----------



## nickjuly

Laurelin said:


> Remy grew up beautifully! He's gotten so much bigger. You need to post pictures of him more often.



Thanks Laurelin ! I have gotten slack with going to college full time at 40 yrs old. But he is a super sweet pup. Can't wait to see his full coat when its completely in. Love seeing your 5 paps !


----------



## lucygoose

Pappy mom....I love all your pictures!! I have to say I do not have any new ones of my two......I had to laugh as the puppy Roxie and no hair on her tail....then now she has hair! So cute! I think I might have some pictures in the camera that I have not loaded, but no time......Just poppin in....

Laurelin.....you don't know how I love your pictures......your a great photographer!! 

Oh and Remy!! What a beautiful dog!!! I like his ticks......my Anabelle is getting those......

Thanks for sharing you guys!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Awesome pics everyone!  We haven't seen Remy in such a long time! He's stunning!

Sorry Pappymom, no new Nia pics right now either. It's rained every single day and I can't even take a camera outside let alone have Nia running around playing outside.


----------



## Lil RiRi

I would of responded sooner, but every time I attempted to visit the site I was getting a potential malware/hazard to my computer issue. Anyways... here's Riley!

























I need to take newer/better pictures. Oh well..


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Hey you joined dogforums as well?  Haven't seen new pics of Riley in a while!


----------



## yappypappymom

Hey to the pap "peeps" ..I have been so lax with the toll of uploading my pics to photobucket...its SUCH an easy thing to do, but, for some reason, I act like its such a "chore" ...here are some of my pics of my "ugly boy" who has changed SOOO much that at times, I wonder where my "ugly duckling" has gone to ..I will begin with some baby pics so that you will see what I am talking about!
The first time I ever saw the kid: (these 2 pics were emailed to me from his original owners)
















****MORE***


----------



## yappypappymom

After I got him:
















This is the UGLIEST OF ALL:








Growing up a bit:









***MORE***


----------



## yappypappymom

The Jets SUCK, but...we are ALL still fans:








This is my "brother"








My ears are MUCH BIGGER when WET!








"Did she dry your ears too"??








***more***


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

You know yappypappymom I don't see the "ugly" at all in that boy. He's one of the cutest babies I've ever seen! And I think he's growing out of his mismark too!


----------



## yappypappymom

After baths, I kinda get "sleepy":








I still have "4 to the floor"








Mom made me try on these STUPID "boots"..PS(notice I am FINALLY getting my inner ear "twizzles"?)








She gave me glacoma from the flash of the camera..thankx mom!!









***MORE***


----------



## yappypappymom

Reads ingredients:"Does this have "pizzle in it"???








Mum says if my dad had THIS much hair in his ears, she would be "grossed out", but, on me...she adores it!!








Pssst...I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND this for the cats!!








Hey guys...I think I see a SNAKE at the 5 o'clock!! Better hide!!


----------



## yappypappymom

Michiyo-Fir said:


> You know yappypappymom I don't see the "ugly" at all in that boy. He's one of the cutest babies I've ever seen! And I think he's growing out of his mismark too!


 Thank you so much for that comment!! He REALLY has changed SOO much, that without a camera, I would hardly notice HOW much he changes on a daily basis..I never even noticed how much his "twizzles" were coming along until I saw them in the pictures!!..Yes, the mismark has changed quite alot too..when I first got him, it literally looked like someone had dipped his ear into a bucket of paint! LOL


----------



## Lil RiRi

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Hey you joined dogforums as well?  Haven't seen new pics of Riley in a while!


yeahhh, I did. The Lj community is dead.


----------



## zturtilli

K9companions said:


> Beautiful pictures everyone! I knew I'd find Laurelin here.


LOL! I'm a noob, but I always see Laurelin everywhere, and her Buddies are really cute...


----------



## Yui

nickjuly said:


> Awesome pics everyone!


Remy is so cute! It's nice to see another black&white Papillon! <3
I adore his coat, it's perfect! *__* I hope Sunny will have a coat like Remy someday. :]

I need to take a new picture of Sunny to add on here! xD


----------



## lucygoose

OMG.....That baby is just too cute!! Where is he miss marked? The ear? My Anabelle has white on both ears one more than the other.......I just took some more pictures and going to try to load them.......

I love this thread!!! I want another baby......


----------



## yappypappymom

lucygoose said:


> OMG.....That baby is just too cute!! Where is he miss marked? The ear? My Anabelle has white on both ears one more than the other.......I just took some more pictures and going to try to load them.......
> 
> I love this thread!!! I want another baby......


..did you see the baby pics from pg. 6?...you REALLY, REALLY see it very clearly when he was a bit younger...he is now ALMOST 5 months...Dec. 29th actually...*but, whos counting*
YES! You too MUST share your pics too! Get to uploading lady!!...you got "fans" just a-waiting!!


----------



## PappyMom

Both Riley and Leif are SO cute.

I love how Riley had no blaze, but a ring of white around the nose..that is too cute!!

And I love Leif's big blaze!! Like he's just got patches over his eyes..omg, totally made me want another baby. Although black and white will be my next baby. Little Roxy is baby enough for me for now, though. She's so TINY, I am paranoid 24/7..lol..and she's almost 9 months!!

Here's another puppy pic of Gizmo:









Ugly teenage Gizzard:









Candid shot after playing in 2 feet of snow:


----------



## PappyMom

Giz and Roxy's butts:









Roxy's inner ear fur at the top is actually either gray or a very grayish tan..lol:









I love how underneath her chin is white too:









Sleepy pappy's:


----------



## yappypappymom

Awww....

Awwww...Gizzy has grown up SOOOO much!! He is quite a "handsome" fella!! Roxy, well, should you ever tire of her...send her my way..Leif has a terrible "crush" on her - ...also,WELCOME RIELY!!! What a "cutie" to add to "our pack" ...More pics of Sunny & Remy too please!!!.."got a pap?...well, then SHARE with the rest of us"!!!!
PS -Lucygoose....we need pics ASAP!!!


----------



## Yui

yappypappymom said:


> More pics of Sunny


He hasn't really done anything interesting to take a picture of! xD


----------



## Yui

I can't find my camera, so all of these are taken with my phone. >w<


----------



## Snuggles

Those puppy pictures are so cute. Dang they are all cute.


----------



## JadoreHaley

Wow, you guys have beautiful Papillons. =]


----------



## BooLette

I. Am. In. LOVE! I LOVE this thread! Keep 'em coming guys! You're satiating my need for a papillon. 

Tremendous thanks from my husband. lol


----------



## Laurelin

I love this thread too! You guys are making me want more though... not really. 

Everyone needs a papillon or five.

Here's a sneak peek of my new lens:










She looks so grown up. *sniffle*


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow she grew up so fast! And a gorgeous girl! Look at that coat!!

I love the new lens! I can see the powdered snow around her face, it's so clear!

May I ask which lens you got?


----------



## Yui

Oh my gosh! How she's grown! She's got a fabulous coat! :]


----------



## lucygoose

You baby is pretty too, Jadorehaley


----------



## JadoreHaley

Thanks Lucy! I just love her but sometimes I wish she was a little more active, this is what she does all day:


----------



## PappyMom

Jadore, she is SO cute!! Looks tiny, too! How old is she?

A couple recents of Roxy:



















And a very depressed Gizmo in the bath:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

2 new ones of Nia I posted in separate thread but thought I'd share here too.










And asleep


----------



## PappyMom

Nia is an angel!! Looks like she lightened up alot too!!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

PappyMom said:


> Nia is an angel!! Looks like she lightened up alot too!!


LOL nope. It's just the lighting. I couldn't use flash or else she had red eyes so I had to turn the light sensitivity waaay up. She's pretty much the same on her head as before. Some of the darker patches on her body is starting to change color a bit though.


----------



## PappyMom

Ohhhh, lol! okay!! Roxy definitely lightened up from her puppy days..too.. I still swear that they could be sisters..lol


----------



## Lil RiRi

Here's a quick Riley picture!









MichiyoFir know's more than anyone one else how hard it is to maintain a dog's hair in this terrible Northwest rain! ARGH!! Can you believe I gave him a bath a couple days ago? And you can barley see his fringe, because it blends in w/ the couch and his fringe is black. Oh well..


----------



## lucidity

Oh god, tell me about the rain. =( It's horrible. I think even Cadence is getting tired of it, and he's usually so hyper that even the rain doesn't deter him from being outdoors!

Here's some recent photos of him, after his neuter surgery last week, lol. He's never looked so SAD!


















A couple of weeks ago:


----------



## Lil RiRi

lucidity said:


> Oh god, tell me about the rain. =( It's horrible. I think even Cadence is getting tired of it, and he's usually so hyper that even the rain doesn't deter him from being outdoors!


Aww. he does look sad. lol! He's so cute! Riley gets to the end of the porch, sees the rain then turns around. He has a rain coat and an umbrella over him (even though I admit, I'm so used to the rain that an umbrella isn't necessary) and he still acts like it's going to kill him! But, I pick him up and put him in the rain. He makes the walks nice and short, though. He does his business and we are back in the house very fast. He usually is pretty particular about where and when any other time.


----------



## Laurelin

Awww, I had a sad pupper too. Mia got spayed this week.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Lil RiRi said:


> MichiyoFir know's more than anyone one else how hard it is to maintain a dog's hair in this terrible Northwest rain! ARGH!! Can you believe I gave him a bath a couple days ago? And you can barley see his fringe, because it blends in w/ the couch and his fringe is black. Oh well..


Heh! Nia gets wet about 4 times a day LOL that's how many times I let her out usually.

Surprisingly she doesn't seem to mind rain at all. She runs around like a fool in pouring rain. This is the same dog that freaks out if she accidently steps in the water dish 

Poor Mia and Cadence! They do look very sad. Too bad I never got any Nia spay pictures when I brought her home, I was so worried I totally forgot to take pics!


----------



## lucygoose

Awwww......I do not look forward to the cone days.....Anabelle will go through a heat or two before I spaid her......not that I want to, but .......she had some trouble when she was young, and well......she is waiting...


----------



## lucidity

Lil RiRi said:


> Aww. he does look sad. lol! He's so cute! Riley gets to the end of the porch, sees the rain then turns around. He has a rain coat and an umbrella over him (even though I admit, I'm so used to the rain that an umbrella isn't necessary) and he still acts like it's going to kill him! But, I pick him up and put him in the rain. He makes the walks nice and short, though. He does his business and we are back in the house very fast. He usually is pretty particular about where and when any other time.


Lol, Riley is funny! He's probably all like "oh mom, do I reaaaalllyyy have to go in the rain?? *insert sad doggy face*" hahaa..



Michiyo-Fir said:


> Heh! Nia gets wet about 4 times a day LOL that's how many times I let her out usually.
> 
> Surprisingly she doesn't seem to mind rain at all. She runs around like a fool in pouring rain. This is the same dog that freaks out if she accidently steps in the water dish
> 
> Poor Mia and Cadence! They do look very sad. Too bad I never got any Nia spay pictures when I brought her home, I was so worried I totally forgot to take pics!


Oh yeah, I get what you mean about the worried part. They do look really sick and pathetic when you bring them home from the surgery, don't they?



Laurelin said:


> Awww, I had a sad pupper too. Mia got spayed this week.


Awww, she does look very very sad. How come she didn't have a cone on?


----------



## Shaina

Who wants to adopt a super-cute ~7month old Papillon girl? If she's this cute in the awkward stage....



(go on, you know you want to)


----------



## JadoreHaley

PappyMom said:


> Jadore, she is SO cute!! Looks tiny, too! How old is she?


She's 7 now, and about 7 pounds. I don't really have a lot of papillons to compare her to save for my grandmothers teeny tiny little 4 lb one, But I would like to say she is about normal.


----------



## MoonStr80

Ugh I cannot help it! You guys are making me eager to get a Pap someday thanx peeps


----------



## lucidity

Shaina said:


> Who wants to adopt a super-cute ~7month old Papillon girl? If she's this cute in the awkward stage..
> 
> (go on, you know you want to)


Oh no, what a sad reason to give up a pup!! Her problems seem so easily corrected. =( I hope she finds a great home.


----------



## Shaina

lucidity said:


> Oh no, what a sad reason to give up a pup!! Her problems seem so easily corrected. =( I hope she finds a great home.


Oh yeah I mean, mouthing and chewing inappropriate things is a pretty easy one. And potty-training a dog that shows when she needs to go out and who is properly crate trained is a piece of cake.

Plus she apparently has massive toy drive and energy to spare.

If I were in the market for a dog, I'd be thinking long and hard, and I normally tend to lean toward mid-size dogs (though she is large-ish for a Papillon I think)


----------



## Laurelin

Oh my god, I WANT! Ugh, she sounds darn close to perfect. Sounds like Mia a lot actually and I know Mia would be way too much dog for most people looking for a lap dog. She's going to be fantastic in the right home though. That's one of the biggest issues I see with the breed in the wrong hands... they're just not dogs to lie around all day. They get bored fast.


----------



## PappyMom

Oh myyy, she is SO cute.. If I didn't have my hands full with my two, I'd be all about it..
Laur, you are so right, most people fall in love with Paps cause they're so cute as puppies, and even more gorgeous as adults (Me and Gizmo..LOL)..and they have no idea what they are getting themselves into!! I didn't know anything about Paps when I decided to take Giz home..I was so set on getting a Peke puppy. Gizmo quickly took control of our house, and it took everything out of me just to climb back up in the ranks, lol.. He's sooo much better now but it is still a challenge every day. He is SO smart and full of energy, that he requires a lot of stimulation and excercise each day. Roxy is totally different though. She's more of a 'Ewww, pick me up, pick me up!! I'm a PRINCESS, don't you know?' kind of Pap.. In alot of ways, when you describe Rose, that is exactly how Roxy is.

PS. Lucidity, you might want to post your question about Cadence's color changes on this thread, Laur would probably be able to answer it better than I can!


----------



## lucidity

Shaina said:


> Oh yeah I mean, mouthing and chewing inappropriate things is a pretty easy one. And potty-training a dog that shows when she needs to go out and who is properly crate trained is a piece of cake.
> 
> Plus she apparently has massive toy drive and energy to spare.
> 
> If I were in the market for a dog, I'd be thinking long and hard, and I normally tend to lean toward mid-size dogs (though she is large-ish for a Papillon I think)


LOL, I think most paps have massive toy drive and TONS and tonsssssss of energy! My pup would go on and on and wouldn't know when to stop and take a break. He used to get hypoglycemic a lot when he was younger because he wouldn't even stop to eat. Now my home is stocked with Nutrical that I don't really need anymore... 

Oh, yeah, she is on the larger side for a papillon.. I wish I lived in a house with a backyard right now. I'd adopt her in a flash... and get a kitten, and possibly several other dogs, lol.



PappyMom said:


> PS. Lucidity, you might want to post your question about Cadence's color changes on this thread, Laur would probably be able to answer it better than I can!



Oooh, okay good idea, I'll X-post! Thanks for your help =D


----------



## Laurelin

PappyMom said:


> Oh myyy, she is SO cute.. If I didn't have my hands full with my two, I'd be all about it..
> Laur, you are so right, most people fall in love with Paps cause they're so cute as puppies, and even more gorgeous as adults (Me and Gizmo..LOL)..and they have no idea what they are getting themselves into!! I didn't know anything about Paps when I decided to take Giz home..I was so set on getting a Peke puppy. Gizmo quickly took control of our house, and it took everything out of me just to climb back up in the ranks, lol.. He's sooo much better now but it is still a challenge every day. He is SO smart and full of energy, that he requires a lot of stimulation and excercise each day. Roxy is totally different though. She's more of a 'Ewww, pick me up, pick me up!! I'm a PRINCESS, don't you know?' kind of Pap.. In alot of ways, when you describe Rose, that is exactly how Roxy is.


Yeah Rose is really really an easy dog. She'd fit in almost anywhere with little problem. (Well except her first home obviously. It still floors me that she was given up) Mia though? Summer? Beau? Nard? All of them are a bit much compared to most lapdog breeds. Mia especially, oh my gosh....



> PS. Lucidity, you might want to post your question about Cadence's color changes on this thread, Laur would probably be able to answer it better than I can!


I must have missed the question. What was it?


----------



## lucidity

Laurelin said:


> I must have missed the question. What was it?



The fur on Cadence's head (the back of his ears especially) has been turning copperish/brown. No idea why! Here's photos of the back of my pup's ears:


























It looks like a weird colouring to me... He's a classic Tri too, only black, white & tan. Both his mom and dad were tris as well... So this red colouring coming in is kind of unnerving. Any ideas?

The copper colour actually looks like highlights one people's dyed hair, lol.


----------



## Laurelin

Is it just on the back of his ears? That's strange on a traditional tri and it actually looks really different than where my hound tri is changing colors.

My first thought was sun bleaching.

For those that think Rose is a calm angel btw, she and Mia are zooming like crazy around my room right now.


----------



## lucygoose

Ya know what? The back of Anabelle's ears are like that......Willies are not. His are black. I think it's cute.....


----------



## Laurelin

Here you can see what's going on with the back of Mia's ears.




























But she's not a traditional tri.


----------



## lucidity

Laurelin said:


> Is it just on the back of his ears? That's strange on a traditional tri and it actually looks really different than where my hound tri is changing colors.
> 
> My first thought was sun bleaching.


The back of his ears, and a little bit on the back of his head as well... Hmm, yes it does look different from your pup... The colour is different as well. I WISH it was the sun..... but it isn't. It hasn't been truly sunny in Vancouver in a... long.... long.... time. Lol. It's mostly been gloomy/rainy the past couple of months. =/

PS: LOVE how Mia's playing with the toy that hasn't even been open yet. LOL!!



lucygoose said:


> Ya know what? The back of Anabelle's ears are like that......Willies are not. His are black. I think it's cute.....


Really? Is she a tri as well? Lol, It's not a bad colour, I'm just worried that it might be something more than just... a change in colour.


----------



## PappyMom

Nutrical is always good to have!! It can be a REAL lifesaver in a pinch!! I always have a tube in my fridge! I learned to keep it around when my Shar-Pei would get sick. It's a good pick me up after belly-aches and such.

How many months old is Cadence now? I know you posted it, but I'm lazy this afternoon..lol.. He looks like he could run for hours with Gizzard!! He is so damn cute!! LOL The more I see tris..the more I want one for my next Pap..It is between a tri and a black&white.. When I got Roxy, I was sooo hoping for her to get bigger and want to run alot and be more eager to learn, but she is the exact opposite.

Wow, I was REALLY slow on my response apparently!! LOL


----------



## Laurelin

I've always been a sable fan in every breed I've liked but after Mia and being around a lot of tri border collies, I'm pretty sold on them. I love the hound tris especially. I love my four red dogs but I hope my next is another tricolor. I just think they're so pretty and I love the crisp contrast between the colors.

ETA: I think Mia is the only hound on the whole forum, isn't she? lol


----------



## PappyMom

Yes! Since Mia joined your crew, and now Cadence joined the boards, I keep begging for a tri! lol!

I love Roxy and Nia's colors though, it has been so interesting to see them lighten up and change throughout puppyhood. But I have to say, I've always been a sucker for Gizmo's mismarked face. If I could find another white face mismark, I'd just swoon and beg until he/she was in my house.. (Wouldn't take too long, my fiance is a sucker for me!!)


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> Nutrical is always good to have!! It can be a REAL lifesaver in a pinch!! I always have a tube in my fridge! I learned to keep it around when my Shar-Pei would get sick. It's a good pick me up after belly-aches and such.
> 
> How many months old is Cadence now? I know you posted it, but I'm lazy this afternoon..lol.. He looks like he could run for hours with Gizzard!! He is so damn cute!! LOL The more I see tris..the more I want one for my next Pap..It is between a tri and a black&white.. When I got Roxy, I was sooo hoping for her to get bigger and want to run alot and be more eager to learn, but she is the exact opposite.
> 
> Wow, I was REALLY slow on my response apparently!! LOL


Lol, that's actually true. I use it a lot when Cadence falls sick/comes back from surgery.

Cadence is 6 months old now! Oh, yes. He would most definitely be able to run for hours with Gizzard... and drain some energy so that I would have to run with him instead! Aww, really? Is she more of a calm dog then? We could exchange dogs hahah. Sometimes I wish Cadence would be more of a couch potato... Whenever I'm sitting around watching TV and he goes missing, I have to hunt for him to make sure that he's not chewing on some wires or something lol...



Laurelin said:


> I've always been a sable fan in every breed I've liked but after Mia and being around a lot of tri border collies, I'm pretty sold on them. I love the hound tris especially. I love my four red dogs but I hope my next is another tricolor. I just think they're so pretty and I love the crisp contrast between the colors.


Wow, I haven't seen a tri border collie yet. Does anyone around here have a lemon pap? I haven't actually seen one yet.. only in photos. They look lovely!



PappyMom said:


> Yes! Since Mia joined your crew, and now Cadence joined the boards, I keep begging for a tri! lol!
> 
> But I have to say, I've always been a sucker for Gizmo's mismarked face. If I could find another white face mismark, I'd just swoon and beg until he/she was in my house.. (Wouldn't take too long, my fiance is a sucker for me!!)



LOL! You should keep begging, and then take lots and lots of photos for us to see =D

Whose pap was it that had the mismarked ear? That was so, so cute. I love mismarks too! Makes them all the more lovable.


----------



## Laurelin

PappyMom said:


> Yes! Since Mia joined your crew, and now Cadence joined the boards, I keep begging for a tri! lol!
> 
> I love Roxy and Nia's colors though, it has been so interesting to see them lighten up and change throughout puppyhood. But I have to say, I've always been a sucker for Gizmo's mismarked face. If I could find another white face mismark, I'd just swoon and beg until he/she was in my house.. (Wouldn't take too long, my fiance is a sucker for me!!)



My second option for when I was looking at Mia was a split faced male traditional tri. I LOVED his markings. The other half was really heavily ticked. He would have been so unique and gorgeous when he grew up! Mia was just a better fit, though and I wouldn't trade that insane little dog for the world.

ETA: My neighbor has a lemon sable pap named Yoda. I've only seen a few in real life.


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Cadence is 6 months old now! Oh, yes. He would most definitely be able to run for hours with Gizzard... and drain some energy so that I would have to run with him instead! Aww, really? Is she more of a calm dog then? We could exchange dogs hahah. Sometimes I wish Cadence would be more of a couch potato... Whenever I'm sitting around watching TV and he goes missing, I have to hunt for him to make sure that he's not chewing on some wires or something lol...


Haha, that was me with Gizmo until just a little after a year old. He never really chewed much, but he was REALLY good at figuring out how to climb onto tables or counters..we've found him ontop of the fridge before..LOL.. He's a character..

Roxy is extremely calm! She's like the perfect dog..but she's super tiny for a 9 month old Pap, in my opinion.. the size difference between my 2 is drastic! she's about 2-3 lbs. She's an angel..wants to be on your lap or carried all the time.. Very rarely gets the zoomies.. Her only downside is that it's been impossible to get her to go out for potties this winter. I think because she is so small, and gets so cold easily..but I put a coat on her..LOL.. 

I'll have to find the pic I have of their size difference..it's crazy.

I have only seen a lemon tri in pics.. It's not a show color or AKC approved color, but I like the blue and liver paps too.


PS. I've been watching this little girl for a bit now... : http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=15327551


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> Haha, that was me with Gizmo until just a little after a year old. He never really chewed much, but he was REALLY good at figuring out how to climb onto tables or counters..we've found him ontop of the fridge before..LOL.. He's a character..
> 
> I'll have to find the pic I have of their size difference..it's crazy.
> 
> PS. I've been watching this little girl for a bit now... : http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=15327551


Oh gosh, she is ADORABLE! They don't really have much info on the site on her, do they... they didn't mention anything about her circumstances, character, temperament etc..

You know, Roxy actually sounds like a typical girl! I know lots of girl dogs who just want to be carried around and hate walking in the rain etc.. LOL! And 2-3lbs is TINY!! Cadence was already 3.9lbs when I got him at 11 weeks. He's now about 6.5lbs or so. Is that a picture of Roxy & Gizmo in your signature photo?

Oh WOW, how did he get up on the fridge?!! That... is really a feat. Haha, he must be able to jump really high. Ugh, Cadence chews on ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. He also eats everything off the ground. It's funny because he's a picky eater but he WILL eat bugs, pee pads, hair, and lots of gross stuff he finds lying around...


----------



## PappyMom

Yup, the one where they are sniffing the grass is the 2 of them..lol, she is so much smaller then him, he's about 10 lbs now..and almost 2 yrs..

He got up on the fridge for an apple..his favorite snack!!

Cadence sounds like so much fun!! He needs to come over and play with Gizzy. They'd have a blast, they sound so much alike!!!


----------



## Laurelin

M girls are pretty spunky and independent. They're a lot more independent than the boys, even Rose. Rose is just calm and collected all the time. The boys are doofuses, lol.


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> Yup, the one where they are sniffing the grass is the 2 of them..lol, she is so much smaller then him, he's about 10 lbs now..and almost 2 yrs..
> 
> He got up on the fridge for an apple..his favorite snack!!
> 
> Cadence sounds like so much fun!! He needs to come over and play with Gizzy. They'd have a blast, they sound so much alike!!!


I always just assumed that Roxy looks smaller in the photo because she was a puppy then! Lol. Wow, but 2-3lbs is possibly the smallest pap I've ever heard of. 

LOL! You know what, Cadence and Gizmo DO sound really similar. Cadence's favourite treat are apples too. They could have a playdate and hunt for apples around the house, haha.



Laurelin said:


> The boys are doofuses, lol.


Fortunately (or unfortunately?) boys are always, always doofuses!


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> I always just assumed that Roxy looks smaller in the photo because she was a puppy then! Lol. Wow, but 2-3lbs is possibly the smallest pap I've ever heard of.
> 
> LOL! You know what, Cadence and Gizmo DO sound really similar. Cadence's favourite treat are apples too. They could have a playdate and hunt for apples around the house, haha.
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately (or unfortunately?) boys are always, always doofuses!



Roxy just never grew!! LOL, her fur changed alot, but she really never got any taller or chubbier. She's an angel though..my fiance calls her daddy's little princess, since they are always inseperable!!

If we were closer, that playdate would be excellent!! I give Gizmo an apple to gnaw on once in a while, the cores are actually really good for his teeth, but only in small doses, because like everything else, too much is never a good thing for the doggies.

And yes, boys are the best doofuses..lol..can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. I think the doofusyness makes them more interesting!!


----------



## Terrie

Are non-pap owners allowed on this thread? LOL

Look at this girl, I found her on petfinder and she's described as only papillon but look at her ears...they are so small. Does that happen in the breed or is this one probably mixed?

















Her story: About a year old, rescued from a shelter with a broken leg. And she's only four hours away from me!!! I want her so bad!!! LOL


----------



## PappyMom

She looks like a Pap/Pom mix! She is tooooo cute!! I love her! I totally think you should go get her!! =P


----------



## lucidity

Pappymom, my thoughts exactly! I was just gonna say that while Paps sometimes have pretty small ears, this girl really looks like a pap/pom mix.. mostly because she doesn't have much fringe either. Also, I AGREE. You should adopt her. Then you'll be invited onto this thread 



PappyMom said:


> Roxy just never grew!! LOL, her fur changed alot, but she really never got any taller or chubbier. She's an angel though..my fiance calls her daddy's little princess, since they are always inseperable!!
> 
> If we were closer, that playdate would be excellent!! I give Gizmo an apple to gnaw on once in a while, the cores are actually really good for his teeth, but only in small doses, because like everything else, too much is never a good thing for the doggies.


Aw, Roxy sounds so lovable. I kinda wish I have a girl now! Lol. Hopefully Cadence will grow out of his craziness eventually.  All my friends are afraid of him because he keeps bouncing everywhere and is so INYOURFACE.

Did you give him the entire apple? Or just slices? I usually sneak Cadence several pieces while I'm eating one. And boo. Too bad you live across the continent from me, lol.


----------



## PappyMom

I usually give him my leftover apple.. I like to slice up an apple for myself, and then give him the core with some apple bits left on.. He goes NUTS.. I will give slices too..


----------



## Terrie

Pap/pom, I was thinking that too but other pap/poms I've seen are a lot more fluffier. Maybe she is more pap than pom?

Aww, my dream would be to be out on a walk with Lexi and just stumble onto a tagless/micro-chipless purebred perfect papillon!  And then I could tell my housemates "Well I couldn't just leave him there!!"


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## PappyMom

I need my fix, fellow pappy owners!!


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## PappyMom

Guyssss!!! I need my Papillon picture fix, or I am going to end up going out and buying another one!! LOL Alvin will KILL me.


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## Laurelin

Does this help? lol


----------



## PappyMom

Ohh yess, very much!! LOL.. (well sort of, now I want to own 5 paps..LOL)

I love my little Nard's tongue hanging out!! Mia has really grown!! Isn't she about the same age as Roxy? Roxy isn't entering her adulthood as quickly. =[ Still looks like a puppy, really. Do you think it has to do with her size?


----------



## Laurelin

How old is Roxy now? Mia is 9 months. I think Mia looks older in pics than she does in real life. She's still very puppy in the way she acts.

Here's another pic. I love Beau. <333


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## PappyMom

Roxy is a little over 9 months as well. She looks babyish in real life and in pics! LOL

Beau is so handsome! He has a very distinguished look about him, but I just wanna snuggle him!!


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## Laurelin

Beau's a real goober. Occasionally he gets very serious but half the time he's doing something hilarious. He's the reason I fell in love with papillons. He was our first. Such a good boy.

Oh and here's one more of the sisters:


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## PappyMom

OH Rose and Summer are so beautiful!! Gosh, they are breathtaking those two!!!


----------



## Lil RiRi

This isn't an amazing picture or anything. But, Riley is such a velcro dog. He really, really loves men. It doesn't matter who the guy is, he will always find his way into sitting in their lap and falling asleep, regardless if the person is a dog person or not. My boyfriend plays video games a lot and sits on our floor in front of the tv like a 5 yr old while doing so and Riley is always laying right next to him or on his lap. I guess, he was a little too tired today. Here he is sleeping with his mouth open.


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## lucidity

AWW, Riley is so cute! Cadence has never slept with his mouth open before! Lol.

And Laurelin, gosh, I love Summer. She has such beautiful colouring. Is she a red & white or sable? She looks totally red to me, but I can't really tell from the pics. For a red & white she has TONS of fringe! *jealous*

PappyMom, here are some more photos for you 










I love this photo.. It's like an "I'm not looking at you but heh heh I'm peeking!" picture. Lol.


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## lucygoose

Great pictures everyone!!!!


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## Laurelin

I love these pics! Lucygoose, we need some more of your two. ; )



lucidity said:


> And Laurelin, gosh, I love Summer. She has such beautiful colouring. Is she a red & white or sable? She looks totally red to me, but I can't really tell from the pics. For a red & white she has TONS of fringe! *jealous*


Summer's a clear red sable. She's technically sable and white but she looks red and white until you look really close. She has a few black hairs here and there, making her a sable. She had NO fringe when I got her at 4 years. I'm amazed at how much fringe she's grown in. It's a lot more than I thought she would especially considering her color. I think part of it is a better diet, honestly.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Just one pic. The oiliest, grossest, stickiest fringe ever!

She played in mud and her fringes got all stuck and I didn't bath her LOL.









My new 50mm f/1.4 lens.


----------



## yappypappymom

HAHAHA!! Thats such a funny face of Nia 

Love the new pap pic updates too! My daughter has "misplaced" her DSi which has MY SD card in it, so..I have been w/o my camera for about a week now..(want to kill the girl-UGH!)

Rose, Summer, Cadence, & Rileys updates sure did make me say "AWWWWW" outloud too! Nice looking group of paps here 

I have a question too...I measured Leif...he is now at 9" at his withers..how much more taller is he "expected" to grow? I know his mum & dad weren't tall AT ALL...so, at 6 months almost, is he just still gonna get taller? He was the smaller of his litter as far as the boys went.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

He'll probably grow another 1/4", maybe 1/2" but not more than that. Nia was a little over 9" at 5 months old. She ended up 10 1/4".


----------



## PappyMom




----------



## PappyMom

This is how Roxy and Gizmo plays, he lays with his belly up and lets her bite his neck and ears..


----------



## PappyMom




----------



## lucidity

Laurelin said:


> Summer's a clear red sable. She's technically sable and white but she looks red and white until you look really close. She has a few black hairs here and there, making her a sable. She had NO fringe when I got her at 4 years. I'm amazed at how much fringe she's grown in. It's a lot more than I thought she would especially considering her color. I think part of it is a better diet, honestly.


Oh, really?! I don't see any of the black at all.. Yeah, she does have TONNES of fringe for such a red pap.. What do you feed her? does she also get supplements and stuff? Cadence's fur has gotten ALOT better since I started adding salmon oil to his diet. Still no fringe though. Lol.


----------



## lucidity

yappypappymom said:


> I have a question too...I measured Leif...he is now at 9" at his withers..how much more taller is he "expected" to grow? I know his mum & dad weren't tall AT ALL...so, at 6 months almost, is he just still gonna get taller? He was the smaller of his litter as far as the boys went.


I don't think he'll get much taller either... Cadence is now stuck at 10", and he's 6.5 months old now.


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> I don't think he'll get much taller either... Cadence is now stuck at 10", and he's 6.5 months old now.



Yup, Paps and toy breeds tend to stop growing height-wise at between 6-8 months, and start to fill out after that.


----------



## yappypappymom

Curiosity got the best of me after listening to my DH harp on "he's getting HUGE", so, I measured him(Leif)...for the life of me, I simply cannot understand how 9" would be considered HUGE to ANYONE on this planet..ESPECIALLY since my hubby is 6'3"...who in the heck is HE to decide what "huge" means anyhow?? 

PappyMom...LOVE the new new updates of the kids!! How is it that Roxy has stayed SOOO small?? She is the DANTIEST pap that I have EVER SEEN!!


----------



## lucidity

Haha, what would your husband say about a full grown St. Bernard, I wonder?! Btw, I love the pictures of Leif you posted. He's possibly the cutest puppy ever! His eyes are adorable. When is his birthday? I suspect it's somewhere around Cadence's.. lol.


----------



## yappypappymom

Hi Lucidity 
Actually, I was a bit suprised to see that Cadence is a bit older than Leif..Leif was born on 7/29/09-they are pretty close enough though, huh? ...as far as the size thing goes, well, lets just say that IF my DH WAS a dog, well...he would be a "hefty" St. Bernard...tee-hee...&, as & far as Leifs eyes go...well, get down on your knees & thank the Lord EVERY DAY that Cadence has a dark-fur face!! Getting these tear-stains under a manageable condition is a ROYAL PAIN in the keister!! LOL ...I think that its lovely to see how closely Cadence & Leif are so close in watching them develop into young men ...*wish like crazy we lived closer together*


----------



## lucidity

Lol, yeah I was stalking around this forum for a while before I actually decided to sign up  Cadence's birthday is on July 2nd! So I guess they're about 3.5 weeks apart, then. Oh damn. Yeah, tear stains can be such a pain. Did you get one of those crystal white bottles from Petsmart? Apparently they work pretty well... I've also heard about giving the dog distilled water instead of tap/bottled.. 

Aw, yeah! I do wish you lived close by. Whereabouts are you? I've never seen another papillon around here, EVER. Most people don't even know what papillons are =( They just mostly think Cadence is a Chihuahua mix of some sort. When I tell them he's a papillon, they look at me suspiciously (like it's not a real breed or something).


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> Aw, yeah! I do wish you lived close by. Whereabouts are you? I've never seen another papillon around here, EVER. Most people don't even know what papillons are =( They just mostly think Cadence is a Chihuahua mix of some sort. When I tell them he's a papillon, they look at me suspiciously (like it's not a real breed or something).


I get the same look! I've seen a total of 4 Papillons and met about 6 people that knows what Nia is since I got her. 

Hey if you're ever in Richmond let me know! I'd love to meet Cadence!


----------



## PappyMom

yappypappymom said:


> PappyMom...LOVE the new new updates of the kids!! How is it that Roxy has stayed SOOO small?? She is the DANTIEST pap that I have EVER SEEN!!


Thank youuu! I have NO idea how Roxy stayed so small, I knew she was going to be smaller then Giz, but I never guessed two lbs. Her mom and dad were 5 and 6 lbs. Roxy is 2 lbs. At times I hate how small she is, then other times I love it. She can go everywhere with me, shopping and everything, where as Giz cannot..but then I am so damn nervous all the time about her getting hurt, and Gizmo is rough and tough! lol..


----------



## lucidity

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I get the same look! I've seen a total of 4 Papillons and met about 6 people that knows what Nia is since I got her.
> 
> Hey if you're ever in Richmond let me know! I'd love to meet Cadence!


I know! Isn't that look just so annoying? Grr. Yes, I'll definitely let you know! I'd love to meet Nia too  Are there any dog parks down in Richmond? Where in Richmond do you live?


----------



## Laurelin

Hehe, it's so weird to me that you guys don't know that many papillons. I probably know several hundred pretty well. We've met a LOT over the years and have a lot of papillon friends.


----------



## PappyMom

LOL, Laur, well, I've met pappy's off of DF irl? and a couple paps here and there at random at the DP..


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> I know! Isn't that look just so annoying? Grr. Yes, I'll definitely let you know! I'd love to meet Nia too  Are there any dog parks down in Richmond? Where in Richmond do you live?


I'll PM you.


----------



## PappyMom

Some new ones!!


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## PappyMom

Side note on the above pic, that is Roxy's fav toy..I wanna throw it away so bad. Idk if any of you've seen south park, but that thing reminds me of Mr.Hanky the Christmas Poo...LOL


----------



## PappyMom

Maybe it is because Giz knows how to pose, or he's matured already, or something, but for some reason, I can't get a really good pic of Roxy to save my life!!! What is up with that?


----------



## lucidity

Can I request a Roxy picture please?  Can you take one of her and something that we all see daily.. say, a bottle of water or something? Just so that I can get a sense of how small she is? Gizmo always looks so HUGE next to her, but I suspect that he's more like the size of a regular pap. Lol.


----------



## yappypappymom

Good one Lucidity....I too have been trying to figure out how all of these "kids" measure up as far as the aging thing goes...I say why don't we all try to post a pic with our pups beside of a 2 liter of soda, just to get an idea as to how everyones growing...maybe a sit position, & also a standing position...I am consantly paranoid about Leifs size..I would greatly appreciate the "2 liter test" for us all to get a better idea of where/how we are all developementaly as far as our younger paps are going ...I'm game...anyone else?


----------



## PappyMom

I'm game!! Just took one of her sitting next to it, and from toes to ears she's pretty even with the bottle cap..going to try to get her to stand next to it, but she's not too happy about that strange looking thing..Wish you guys could see her IRL, I've never seen anything so tiny.


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Can I request a Roxy picture please?  Can you take one of her and something that we all see daily.. say, a bottle of water or something? Just so that I can get a sense of how small she is? Gizmo always looks so HUGE next to her, but I suspect that he's more like the size of a regular pap. Lol.


Gizmo is actually a big pap..lol, I have 2 polar opposites here..Roxy, who's too small, and Gizzy, who's too big (but not by alot). I'll take a picture of both next to a bottle..


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I don't actually have a soda bottle at home LOL. I'll see what I can find and try this... This sounds like fun!


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

How do you guys take care of fringe?
Like not just when you groom but how do you maintain it?

I took Holly and JC to the groomer yesterday and WOW. I wish I had before and after pictures but the difference was amazing. Holly usually gets her fringe chewed on by JC so it usually looks pretty sparse but wow after her groom it looked fabulous. Next time I get them groomed I'm going to ask the groomer, but just wanted to know if yall had any tips.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I just wash with a good quality shampoo and rinse it clean. No conditioner because it makes Nia's too oily. Some people spray a bit of detangler on it and then comb it because fringe likes to stick.


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I just wash with a good quality shampoo and rinse it clean. No conditioner because it makes Nia's too oily. Some people spray a bit of detangler on it and then comb it because fringe likes to stick.


What shampoo are you using? I'm using the white on white system kits by Chris Christenson.


----------



## lucidity

I couldn't find a 2L pop bottle either... so instead, I used a box of special K red berries!  Best cereal ever. It's the big box, btw.

Here's Cadence standing: 









He looks unsure of the box lol. When I put it beside him he looked scared of it. -_-










Sitting down.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> What shampoo are you using? I'm using the white on white system kits by Chris Christenson.


I'm using Vellus' show shampoo concentrate. But I heard the CC one is equally good.


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

Yeah I'm super happy with the stuff. And it's reasonably priced. I guess my main problem is keeping JC out of her fringe. So much easier said than done.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I have that problem a bit as well. Whenever there are puppies playing with her, they hang on to her fringe and tail plume LOL. Have you tried a snood?

For me getting both CC and Vellus is quite expensive since it has to be shipped to me. Next time I buy Vellus, I'm buying the biggest bottles LOL just so it's cheaper. 

We need to see more pics of your babies ladyshadowhollyjc!


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

No I sure haven't. I'm thinking that's going to have to be our next move. JC just tears up Holly's ears and tail. He tries to drag her but the tail when she pees.

Will have to get some pictures tomorrow.


----------



## yappypappymom

HAHAHA!! I have been away all day, so I just logged in...Cadence looks like..."...ummm...WHY is it exactly again is it that you are making me do this mom"?...ADORABLE(gosh, he sure is handsome)!! Good news is that while I was out earlier today, I FINALLY replaced my SD card, so that I can snag Leif later on today for his photo op as well...I have a sneaky suspicion that he is gonna be giving me the odd-look as well!! 

As far as shampoo, I forget what it is that I use...it comes in a blue bottle though!


----------



## Hiaja

This is my girl Jazz, she's a red and white Papillon and almost 6yrs old. She loves being a couch potato but also loves agility and obedience, she just lights up!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Jazz is SOOOO pretty! I see her sometimes in Kechak's posts


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

I love the name Jazz. It seems to be so fitting for a papillon.


----------



## lucidity

yappypappymom said:


> HAHAHA!! I have been away all day, so I just logged in...Cadence looks like..."...ummm...WHY is it exactly again is it that you are making me do this mom"?...ADORABLE(gosh, he sure is handsome)!! Good news is that while I was out earlier today, I FINALLY replaced my SD card, so that I can snag Leif later on today for his photo op as well...I have a sneaky suspicion that he is gonna be giving me the odd-look as well!!


LOL, yes he was staring at me like.. Ok, can I go now? WHY are you making me STAY beside this weird looking box?? YAY. So more photos of Leif? I wanna see what he looks like now! These puppies grow so fast. Just a couple of weeks pass and they look totally different!



Hiaja said:


> This is my girl Jazz, she's a red and white Papillon and almost 6yrs old. She loves being a couch potato but also loves agility and obedience, she just lights up!


Aw, she's so pretty!! Love her colour and markings


----------



## Shaina

Laurelin said:


> Hehe, it's so weird to me that you guys don't know that many papillons.


Yes this always surprises me as well...there are probably 10 papillons that I see every week, plus quite a few others in the area...I suppose I should try to get pics of them some time...



And yes I lurk on this thread because, well, they are just darn cute lol.


----------



## Laurelin

Shaina said:


> Yes this always surprises me as well...there are probably 10 papillons that I see every week, plus quite a few others in the area...I suppose I should try to get pics of them some time...
> 
> 
> 
> And yes I lurk on this thread because, well, they are just darn cute lol.


It's okay, lol. We'll let ya.


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

J.C.
















Notice his brown eye brows? Does that mean he's not just a White and Black?

Holly









Annnnd this is what happens when I try to get a picture with both...


----------



## Laurelin

Huh, JC looks like either a minimal tri or maybe even a black sable.


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

With the black sable I thought there was actually sable in the black. The rest of his hair is just black. Solid black. He hasn't always had the tan, it didn't show up until he was about a year old.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I think he looks like minimal tri. For sables I think the color tends to show up earlier.


----------



## Hiaja

This thread is bad, I see all these pretty paps and want to get another one!!


----------



## Laurelin

Hiaja said:


> This thread is bad, I see all these pretty paps and want to get another one!!


You should! They're so much funner in pairs and even funner in groups of five. *nods*


----------



## lucidity

Lol, yes, this makes me want another pup too... if only someone else could potty train it for me  Btw, where do you guys get the shampoos from? I'm looking into getting some Vellus shampoos, but I'm not sure if I can get them at a store here or if I should just order online?


----------



## Deron_dog

I have a friend who has a Boston Terrier Papillion Mix..it is the Cutest little thing I've ever seen. I'll see if I can find a pic of her.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I quite like this pic










And one new silly bath pic


----------



## PappyMom

Okay guys, there's a new Pappy on the boards, her name is Crystal!! Big welcomes and tail wags to her!!

Do we have a grand DF Pap total yet?

1. Summer, Mia, Rose, Nard and Beau.
2. Nia
3. Leif
4. Cadence
5. Gizmo and Roxy
6. Roxy ( I haven't seen them in a while )
7. Holly and JC
8. Jazz
9. Willie and Annabelle
10. Riley
11. Remy
12. Sunny
13. Haley
14. Jilly
15. Cally and Pop-It
16. Crystal
17. There's another one..with her sig pic of her pappy by her horse..idr the name.. =[

Any others that I'm missing? I'm at 25 now..lol..


----------



## lucidity

Wow, did you remember that all by yourself?? I'm amazed! Lol.

I don't know half the dogs on that list. Pretty much from No.9 onwards I'm just like.. huh?


----------



## Crantastic

Aww, thanks for welcoming Crystal here! This thread is awesome; I will never tire of looking at papillon pictures. 

Crystal is three years old and a little big for a papillon -- she was a show dog as a pup, and earned four points towards her championship before a growth spurt left her just a bit too tall (11 3/4 inches) and she had to be spayed and sold as a pet. I got her when she was just over a year old. She is such a great little dog, very typical papillon. 

Here she is with one of her friends, Julia. Julia is on the smaller side (she was too small for her breeder's breeding program), so Crystal looks huge next to her!










And here's Crystal with her kitties, Lily and Fynne, on their awesome cat tree. She will pose for the camera no matter where I put her!










She was somewhat aggressive with other dogs when I got her, but we've been working on it and she is a lot better now. She now actually likes my brother's dog, Jade.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

PappyMom said:


> Okay guys, there's a new Pappy on the boards, her name is Crystal!! Big welcomes and tail wags to her!!
> 
> Do we have a grand DF Pap total yet?
> 
> 1. Summer, Mia, Rose, Nard and Beau.
> 2. Nia
> 3. Leif
> 4. Cadence
> 5. Gizmo and Roxy
> 6. Roxy ( I haven't seen them in a while )
> 7. Holly and JC
> 8. Jazz
> 9. Willie and Annabelle
> 10. Riley
> 11. Remy
> 12. Sunny
> 13. Haley
> 14. Jilly
> 15. Cally and Pop-It
> 16. Crystal
> 17. There's another one..with her sig pic of her pappy by her horse..idr the name.. =[
> 
> Any others that I'm missing? I'm at 25 now..lol..


I think there's a Louis. Wasn't there an Oliver as well?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Pretty Crystal! Me wants!


----------



## lucidity

Aww... I love Crystal's fringe!! It looks so neat and well brushed, lol. Still hoping Cadence will even have fringe.  He's primarily American line pap, so I don't know if he'll have any at all.

Also, the cats look like twins, haha.


----------



## LilOllie

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I think there's a Louis. Wasn't there an Oliver as well?


Yes, I haven't been on in forever. Here are some new pictures of Oliver:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Omgosh! He's gorgeous! How old is he??? By the way did he turn out to be a Phalene?


----------



## lucidity

I was wondering the same thing! He looks like a Phalene on your avatar, but in the recent photos his ears look like they're sort of coming up, lol.


----------



## Crantastic

Oh, Oliver is adorable! Look at that curly ear fringe! I love the picture of him standing on his back legs -- Crystal does that sometimes, too, when she's particularly fascinated by something far away. She'll stand and stare for at least 30 seconds before dropping back down. 

lucidity, I do brush Crystal's fringe (gently!) fairly frequently. It doesn't tend to get too tangled, which is great. Also, the kittens are sisters -- I adopted them together from the local humane society. Their two brothers and their mom are also orange tabbies. I'd never seen a whole family of red cats like that before!


----------



## Laurelin

Maybe Cadence will get good fringe. Rose, Summer, Beau and Mia are all almost entirely American lines and they have good fringe. (Well Beau is a bit lacking).

Mia's been keeping me on my toes lately:




























FYI: I'd call Oliver a weak eared papillon. He's adorable and grown up soooo much! We need more pics of him.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

The last picture of Mia is the best! I believe that's what they look like when they're having random crazy zoomies? It's the weirdest thing, Nia's tail tucks all the way down and up and down and up while she runs around like a nut! Looks like Mia's doing the exact same thing ha!


----------



## Crantastic

Oliver could end up with ears like Crystal's adorable brother, Dipper, has:










Laurelin, I love the action shots! Mia is so cute. That last pic of her jumping is such a great capture!


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks!

Miss Summer was feeling left out.

Here's one my friend (professional photographer) took of Summer:










And some recents:



















And one of me and Mia (my friend took this too):


----------



## lucidity

Crantastic said:


> lucidity, I do brush Crystal's fringe (gently!) fairly frequently. It doesn't tend to get too tangled, which is great. Also, the kittens are sisters -- I adopted them together from the local humane society. Their two brothers and their mom are also orange tabbies. I'd never seen a whole family of red cats like that before!


LOL!! You know, seeing the whole family of red cats reminds me of the Weasley family from Harry Potter 



Laurelin said:


> Maybe Cadence will get good fringe. Rose, Summer, Beau and Mia are all almost entirely American lines and they have good fringe. (Well Beau is a bit lacking).


Haha, I'm keeping my fingers crossed! He barely has ANY at all right now. His fringe has been pretty much the same length since I first got him  I just got his AKC pedigree a couple of days ago, and realized that all his ancestors are American except for two: one Hungarian great-grandma and one British one. Lol.

Actually, I think Beau has pretty good fringe too!! Wasn't it Nard who chewed his fringe off?? 

EDIT: I like that last photo of you and Mia. She looks like she's in lurveeeeeee. Lol.


----------



## PappyMom

Aww, I remember Oliver!! He's precious!! His ears look so soft, and he's got the one little curl in each ear like Roxy.

how much does Crystal's friend Julia weigh? Looks like her and Rox might be the same size.

I have new pics, guys, I'll post them in a minute..


----------



## PappyMom

They need baths, please ignore!! We have company coming in 2 weeks, so I am slacking on them till just before everyone comes!! lol! I am bad. =]

A couple of Gizmo:



















And Roxy:


----------



## PappyMom

They have matching collar/harness..lol..










Roxy is starting to have the Papillon Lazy Tongue more often, like Gizmo..lol

lol, sorry, Lily sneaks into every pic! she's a ham.


----------



## Crantastic

I think Julia weighs around five pounds, but I'm not sure. Her owner has three papillons, and their other girl, Katie, is the same size. Wilson, their boy, is bigger, but still not as tall as Crystal! Here's a picture I snagged from her Facebook album.


----------



## PappyMom

Ohh, Roxy's still smaller. =\ I can't get this girl over 2 pounds..lol..

And I totally love the pap with the white tipped ears, and the one in the back on the right has a cool face mask.. love it!


----------



## Crantastic

Wilson has the white-tipped ear. He's deaf, but he knows a lot of hand signals and is a good boy! Here's another pic of the three.

I should get their owner to register here and add three more papillons to this thread's list.  She loves to talk about her dogs, too!


----------



## lucidity

You really should!  I just checked out your breeder's website.. and then I stumbled across that photo of Crystal with one of the cats, lol!

She does have really pretty dogs. Love how Crystal's dad is a classic tri but she came out almost totally like her mom!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Hmm Pap genetics is quite weird. Two tri dogs can have a sable pup from what I've heard. And 2 sables can have a tri. Not sure if that's the case with other breeds too?

Seems like all the Canadian show breeders exchange dogs. My breeder has 2 Mawenpaw dogs and Mawenpaw has a Nicomen(Nia's breeder) dog.


----------



## lucidity

That's really interesting... I love studying up on genetics  

I found this website (http://www.letitpapillons.com/info/colors/tour.htm) that has tonnes of info on coat colours...

Incidentally, I stumbled across this picture:










Which I found on this page: http://www.letitpapillons.com/info/colors/tricolor.htm
Quote: "Above, Beautyfly Sydie-Magic Fly demonstrates a variation of the tricolor that is rare. This is when the face of the dog has classic tri markings but there is red behind the head. As with all tricolors, the body spots are black and there is tan under the tail if there is also black."

Remember when I was worried about the hairs at the back of Cadence's fur turning copper/tan at the roots?


















Do you guys think that could be what it is??? It's definitely not sun bleaching, it hasn't been sunny here in half a year, lol.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I guess Cadence is normal! LOL I was just going to suggest he might be some strange type of sable with Tri markings. But his body patches aren't sable...well now you know!


----------



## lucidity

Haha, I guess so too!! Lol, I was wondering about the red too... he woulda been the first tri sable pap ever, haha. Well at least he doesn't have some vitamin deficiency or something


----------



## LilOllie

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Omgosh! He's gorgeous! How old is he??? By the way did he turn out to be a Phalene?


Oliver is 9 months now. I can't believe it! Unfortunately I think he is considered a "broken ear" which is a disqualification. I never planned on showing him, so it doesn't matter to me. He is also too tall for breed standard, but I love him all the same 



PappyMom said:


> Aww, I remember Oliver!! He's precious!! His ears look so soft, and he's got the one little curl in each ear like Roxy.


I love his ear curls! haha  I'm always trying to twirl them on my finger and he gets so annoyed with me.


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

LilOllie said:


> Oliver is 9 months now. I can't believe it! Unfortunately I think he is considered a "broken ear" which is a disqualification. I never planned on showing him, so it doesn't matter to me. He is also too tall for breed standard, but I love him all the same


Does Oliver ever have his ears up? I have a weak eared pap also... but there are times when he will hold his ears up like a normal pap. 

He had huge ears that did stand up as a pup though.
Going through the puppy uglies









And this is him last summer, (best picture I have that shows how his ears curl.. its kinda hard to tell when he's not kinda wet)








We like to joke that he got mad because we made fun of his big ears as a puppy.


----------



## LilOllie

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> Does Oliver ever have his ears up? I have a weak eared pap also... but there are times when he will hold his ears up like a normal pap.


This is him at about 5 months (i think) this is the only time his ears really stuck up all the way. I'm glad I got a few pics cause a week after that they were half flapped over again. haha.


----------



## lucidity

Aww, he's such a cute little puppy! I read somewhere that if a pup's ears had stood up all the way once, that it will again when it's full grown... don't know how true it is, though.


----------



## Lil RiRi

Riley is an usual dog. He kept jumping on his crate and trying to sleep on it. So, we just gave in and put a bed on top. Now he chews all his messy things on here that way it's easy clean up. LOL









Also, this is one of the couple times hes played with any type of balls. The only reason he is loving it now is because we kept it in his treat bag for a week so it smells delicious! He also always plays with his toys on his back ike a cat. He's so crazy.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia has a bit of messed up ears too although I think it's alright now. For a few weeks one of her ears started to bend downwards after her spay because they were too rough tattooing I'm her ear. I even requested them not to but they said it's their policy. She's microchipped so there's no need for a tatoo at all. When she woke up that ear would bend over and when she's alert it would go back up. It's been fine for about half a year now though. Although that one still flops over to the back of her head more if she's rollig on the ground. Nias ears are quite flappy while she's running. I'll dig up some pics when I get home.

Edit: I think all paps play with toys on their back!! Nia does it all the time and I think i've seen pics of Mia doing it too!


----------



## Laurelin

Yep, they're very catlike at times!


----------



## LilOllie

Aww cute pics! 
...and about paps being cat like the funniest thing happened yesterday. My new puppy was laying down on the couch, and Oliver was on the ground about 10 feet away. I noticed he was starting to walk all slow and weird like he was sneaking up on someone. I'm like "Oliver!" to get his attention "are you okay?" haha. He stopped what he was doing and acted all normal and wagged his tail. Then about 8 seconds later he is doing the slow motion stalking move again. He kept getting closer and closer to the couch. Then finally he jumped up super high and super fast and pounced right on top of the new puppy and startled her real good. haha. It was so funny, and reminded me of something my cat would do. I wish I would have got it on video.


----------



## PappyMom

lol LilOllie, both of my paps do that all the time..and Gizmo loves to do it to our pug Lily.

Didn't know you got a new puppy! Congrats! What kind?


----------



## LilOllie

PappyMom said:


> lol LilOllie, both of my paps do that all the time..and Gizmo loves to do it to our pug Lily.
> 
> Didn't know you got a new puppy! Congrats! What kind?


I adopted her from the humane society, so I'm not quite sure. She appears to be possible pit/shar pei/boxer mix. The humane society had her listed as a Boxer mix, but I don't really know. I will posting some pictures of her later.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

OOh I finally found the pics of Nia's ears flapping like wings when she runs or jumps around LOL. 

Here's her 'normal' ears.









Running









More (sorry about the blurriness)









If she runs fast they flop like so. She could pass as a Phalene in this pic ha!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh here are my play with ball pics. I found them in the same pile as the ears flapping photos.











One last one! Where art thou my love? My lovely ball?


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal plays on her back sometimes, too. Here are a couple of pictures from when I first got her. She loves that stuffed beaver:


----------



## lucidity

Man, Cadence never plays on his back haha. The only time he's on his back is when he wants a belly rub. Lol

Michi, those photos of Nia are SO CUTE. I love that last photo of her bouncing with the ball, lol.

& Crystal is adorable! She looks so small there.


----------



## lucygoose

I love all the new pictures!!


----------



## yappypappymom

lucygoose said:


> I love all the new pictures!!


Oh, I hear you!! I LOVE LOVE LOVE them!! Beautiful kids they all are! Welcome Crystal too!! Reilys pic on the bathroom sink counter was a riot too! LOL ....I can personally say that, if ANY members of the DF pap club need to rehome any of their babies, I will gladly pay for shipping of ANY of them!!*hint hint*

Here are some "sillies" of Leif in the snow..when it first came, he was such a diva..acting like he would get the "cooties" if the "stuff" touched him...he finally decided the "stuff" was kinda fun, & got a bit silly in it even -

"Thizz izz reawwy cowd"









RAWR!! I attackz you now!! Fear these 6 lbs!!!...(is he serious?? I sooo wish I could place a mirror in front of him when he does this..his "RAWR" face is just so freaking cute)!!









In this pic, there is something REALLY funny here...*note, its NOT Leif, or the snow....but something else..can you see what I mean??*









Something, somewhere, is about to get "pounced" upon -









I just thougt this one was cute:


----------



## yappypappymom

Also, Michyo...theres Boos' Root to add to the list


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh yeah! The new kid!  Root! I keep forgetting him!

Leif's starting to fluff up too! Man he's so pretty! Whenever you're ready, just send him over this way!

Surprisingly Nia isn't that "princessy" she loves snow, ice, mud, sand LOL. She has serious zoomies when there's snow. 

I was just wondering, what kennel is Leif from? (only if you don't mind telling me)


----------



## lucidity

I think I read in a previous post that LEif was bought from a family who just are very passionate about paps, not a kennel. 

Btw, omg, I love love love the pics of Leif!! He's SO adorableeeee. He has that cheeky look  and he doesn't look cold at ALL!

EDIT: I don't see what's funny about that photo! Is it the shadow? It looks like a bunny


----------



## lucygoose

I also love the pics of Leif!! So pretty!!! Go Colts!! LOL


----------



## LilOllie

Leif is super ADORABLE!
Here are a few pictures I took of Oliver today when we were taking a walk downtown at the square:
























Oliver looks a bit cross-eyed in this one but it's the best I could get of both my pups together.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Ollie is such a nice red color! He's getting really fluffy too! Seems like everyone has a growing pup! Makes me feel like I need another one!


----------



## PappyMom

First off, how did I miss all of these new pics!? I love all of the paps on this board.. yappypappymom, I can't find what's wrong in the pic! Do tell!! Leif is growing up so gorgeous!! And so is little Oliver!!

Second, to answer your questions from the other thread, LOL...

Gizmo isn't a rescue, or really from a breeder per say. A lady who works with my mother had an accidental litter. She didn't want to take on the male rescue, since he was intact and scheduled for neutering the following week. Her current female rescue was to be spayed as soon as her heat cycle was over. She had them both locked in seperate crates, but came home to find them in the same..and well, now I have my little booger.

Anddd, around the end of summer, my little man was attacked by our next door neighbor's pitbull in our front yard on his potty trip. Gizmo, nor my fiance saw it coming, they both had their backs turned to the PB, who was off-leash and no owner around. Giz was on-leash and playing with 3 kids under the age of 6. He got four stitches on his butt, but it could've been much worse. He's been oddly skittish around men and big dogs since then.

It left him looking like this:










I'm sure he hates me saying it.. =P But I thank god every day that it was him and not Roxy. It surely would have killed her..esp since then, I think she was around 4 months old..


----------



## lucidity

Lol, that's a funny story about how you got Giz! But ouch... didn't your neighbours say anything about their dog having attacked Gizmo?!! I would have been MAJORLY PISSED OFF.  I would've made them pay for the surgery/stitches, really. Grr. But you're right. If it was tiny Roxy, I wouldn't wanna imagine what might've happened.


----------



## yappypappymom

Oh man...I didn't know what Giz had been through ..hes DEFIANATELY got some "scrappy" in him ~ LOL - GOOD for him!!!

Yes, as far as Leifs pic goes, Licidity got it right..its the shadow that shows a PERFECT replica of a bunny rabbit!! I missed it a few times myself, then, when I FINALLY noticed the shadow, I was a bit taken aback from the surprise!!

PS-Gizzy it totally "rocking" his cone of shame!! He is the most handsome "patient" that I have EVER seen!!!!


----------



## tonisaysss

Laurelin said:


>


just posting to say i found this heartwrenchingly adorable.


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Lol, that's a funny story about how you got Giz! But ouch... didn't your neighbours say anything about their dog having attacked Gizmo?!! I would have been MAJORLY PISSED OFF.  I would've made them pay for the surgery/stitches, really. Grr. But you're right. If it was tiny Roxy, I wouldn't wanna imagine what might've happened.



It is pretty funny! Sheis kind of a lone rescuer. She perfers to take on Paps but will take on most any she finds. No kids, about to retire, works as a nurse in a nursing home. Owns her home and cars already, so most of her money goes to the dogs. I commend her. She gave me Giz absolutely free.

As far as the neighbors go, the wife went with us to the E-vet, sat with us the whole night, and paid for everything. She was wonderful. She even asked me for suggestions to keep him contained better, and asked me if I though he should be PTS. I declined the PTS, obviously, cause he now has a huge home made dog house by the hubby, and a long laundry style run in the back yard!! 



yappypappymom said:


> Oh man...I didn't know what Giz had been through ..hes DEFIANATELY got some "scrappy" in him ~ LOL - GOOD for him!!!
> 
> Yes, as far as Leifs pic goes, Licidity got it right..its the shadow that shows a PERFECT replica of a bunny rabbit!! I missed it a few times myself, then, when I FINALLY noticed the shadow, I was a bit taken aback from the surprise!!
> 
> PS-Gizzy it totally "rocking" his cone of shame!! He is the most handsome "patient" that I have EVER seen!!!!


Giz is verrry tough for a Pap! But he really is mommy's little sweetheart. Just last night, even though they are not allowed on our new furniture, he jumped right up into my lap, and layed down immediately. He knew I couldn't yell at him if he was that adorable!

And yes, we loved the cone on him. He was so freakin' cute. He hated it however...and he always ran into the backs of our legs. I had huge bruises from him.


----------



## lucidity

Lol, you know what? Cadenc only hated the cone for a day... and then after that he LIKED it, because he liked licking it!! Eww. I had to wash the cone in soap every night to keep it from smelling. Crazy dog. lol.


----------



## PappyMom

LOL, Paps are serious lickers. If you don't let mine lick you, they'll lick the air..


----------



## Crantastic

I love that bath picture! Wet papillons are hilarious.










(Crystal would disagree.)

Aww, while looking for that, I found one of her baby pictures! Her breeder took this one.










It's so neat how their colors change as they grow.

And haha, here's a pic I took shortly after bringing her home. The cat I had at the time, Patch (she was 18 years old when this was taken -- here she is on her birthday) is leaping away as quickly as possible before Crystal notices!


----------



## lucidity

AWWWWW!!!I love the baby pic!! It's so CANADIAN too  She could be in the Tim Hortons' ads now heheheh


----------



## Laurelin

I took Conehead to the park today and she barked at some squirrels. Poor thing, everyone who saw her just laughed and laughed at her. 










Just a curiosity, but how did you all end up with papillons anyways?


----------



## Laurelin

Oh and I feel like this thread needs these pics:










Come here my darling



















Gangsta Beau










Yeah, I'm going through old pics, lol!


----------



## Laurelin

Just a few random oldies



















That was before Mia! 

They're everywhere!










It's like an invasion...


----------



## yappypappymom

Cone-head...cant help but reminded of Edward Scissors hand  LOL!!  Shes a beauty NO MATTER the "head gear"...I love her all the same....Summer is just "one of those gals"...ya know what I mean!!! *hugs & kisses being sent to her speedy recovery*


----------



## Laurelin

Tango: I think Summer farted.


----------



## Laurelin

It's mine, no it's mine, no it's mine!










Beau: munchkins










Nard is very proud of himself:










Sorry for totally spamming the thread.


----------



## lucidity

Aww, I love your photos! Poor Summer though. Lol. I like the baby pics. I LOVE puppies! They're just so adorable.

Btw, to answer your question... I'd actually been thinking/toying with the idea of getting a puppy for a year before I actually got Cadence. So I started researching breeds, etc. Took a bunch of breed tests and there was always "Papillon" in the top 5. I'd NEVER even heard of the breed, so I decided to look into it... and then I fell in love! I met two paps before I got Cadence--they were awesome. I LOVED how paps look--regal, dainty, yet spunky. 

I narrowed down my criteria to three breeds in the end: papillons, toy poodles, and pomeranians. Got rid of Poms because they're usually independent/stubborn, and I've never owned a dog... so, stubborn wouldn't really work. In the end I found a papillon breeder who agreed to put me on her waitlist, and the rest is history! 

EDIT: I forgot to say that the more I read up about paps, the more I fell in love with them. Smart, athletic, trainable... people-loving... What's there not to love?


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## Crantastic

I had a big dog, a malamute/collie named Scout, and he was getting old. I knew he wouldn't be around much longer, and I always like to get a new dog before my old one passes so I won't be dogless. I'd always been a fan of larger dogs, but I decided to go with a smaller one this time so that I could easily take it with me if I moved away, and so that I could bring it along on vacations. I did a ton of research, trying to narrow my selection down to small dogs that were highly intelligent and trainable, non-yappy, non-nervous, good with cats, healthy, energetic, and didn't require much grooming. I was so excited to discover that the papillon was all of these things! I contacted a local breeder and she happened to have Crystal, a show pup who grew too tall and was being spayed and sold as a pet. I went to meet her, and the rest is history.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin, love the piccy spam! Beau looks so strange in that hoodie LOL. The 3rd hoodie picture he reminds me of an english bulldog!

And as for how I ended up with a Pap?
I had first met a Pap in London while out with Truffles, it was a black and white one and I went up to pet him. The lady said she was almost completely deaf and the Pap is given to her to help her manage her hearing. For example he would let her know if the phone or doorbell was ringing. He was such a pretty little dog! I immediately liked the breed.

When I was looking for a dog, I wanted something medium sized and very friendly but not a couch potato like Truffles. My mother said nothing bigger than 20 lbs in her house so I had to look at toy breeds. I honestly didn't like many sma;; breeds at all, either too low energy, too yappy or too crazy (terriers). I looked back and forth and almost decided on a Cavalier King Charles (although they honestly don't fit my life as well), then I saw the intelligence of dogs ranking and as I was randomly flipping through it I saw a name. Papillons. Then I remembered that I had met one I liked and started to research the breed. They are PERFECT! medium/long coat check! single coated check! very friendly check! energetic check! Everything fit! Except my mom wanted a non-shedding dog and I'm not a fan of clipping dogs or needing to give them a hair cut every couple of weeks so I decided one little difference isn't a big deal. Then I got Nia! <3


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## tw1n

So, ever sense I joined these forums I've oddly been drawn to Papillons, going against my manly urges to have a manly dog LoL. I used to show my wife pictures of Summer trying to convince her we should get one, and she always said no. 

Saturday we went to Kohls, and sitting outside on this raised flower bed was this little Papillon. I walked over, being like the only person in the parking lot other than the owner who knew what it was. My wife was instantly sold, she now wants a Papillon. 

Also, the owner kept telling everyone that he dog didn't have ear fringes because it was a girl. I kept saying it was because it was so younge. But he just kept on telling everyone that only boys have ear fringes. So... 


You all have boy dogs.


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## PappyMom

LOL tw1n, well we can't wait to add you to our Pap crew!!


Question for my fellow Pap ownerssss:

Gosh, we all know Roxy and Gizmo have always been the exact opposite, but tbh..sometimes I just don't think she's a Pap. She really has nooo energy, esp compared to Giz. She'll run around and play for maybe 15-30 mins, and then she's done. And she has no motivation to learn ANYTHING. Gizmo will learn a new command for me in a matter of minutes..and repeat repeat repeat it, like i've trained it for weeks! He's so solid with everything and SO intelligent. Roxy isn't. If I won't give it to her within a few seconds, she just give me her best pissed off princess look and walks away..totally unphased!! lol. I've tried treats, toys, chicken, hotdogs, bananas..everything! NOTHING WORKS. I'm so at a loss. She's 10 months old, and will barely even sit on command!! Where as, at 5 months old, Gizmo was sitting, laying and giving paw. What's wrong with this pic!? I am so flustered!!


PS. Laur, in the Beau and munchkins pic..is that puppy Nard and his very Gizmo-esque brother?


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## Deron_dog

I myself really really want a Pap, yer guys and girls are sooo gosh darn cute, the SO Says no, he won't have what he calls a Fru fru dog.....I think the SO may have to go LMAO!


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## lucidity

You know what? I sometimes think that of Cadence too.. lol, he really isn't the brightest cookie in the jar. It takes me a WHILE to teach him tricks. Lots and lotsssss of repetitions. The only difference between him and your Roxy is that he actually likes treats, lol. For instance... it took me months to teach him "Bow". I had to mark it each time he did it, multiple times a day. And only lately did he actually get it. Sometimes I just get so frustrated that I give up on certain tricks. Like rollover, for example. 

I don't know, maybe Roxy isn't as eager to please as Giz is? She might just be one of those princessy types that like you to worship her instead of the other way around, haha. Maybe you could train her before she gets her meals. Then she'd be reaaaaallly hungry and more cooperative?


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## PappyMom

Deron_dog said:


> I myself really really want a Pap, yer guys and girls are sooo gosh darn cute, the SO Says no, he won't have what he calls a Fru fru dog.....I think the SO may have to go LMAO!


LOL, I have yet to meet anyone who thought of Gizmo as fru fru. I think your SO would change his mind if he met him. He can jump over and completely clear a tall baby gate with a person on hands and knees on the other side. He's insanely athletic and intelligent.



lucidity said:


> You know what? I sometimes think that of Cadence too.. lol, he really isn't the brightest cookie in the jar. It takes me a WHILE to teach him tricks. Lots and lotsssss of repetitions. The only difference between him and your Roxy is that he actually likes treats, lol. For instance... it took me months to teach him "Bow". I had to mark it each time he did it, multiple times a day. And only lately did he actually get it. Sometimes I just get so frustrated that I give up on certain tricks. Like rollover, for example.
> 
> I don't know, maybe Roxy isn't as eager to please as Giz is? She might just be one of those princessy types that like you to worship her instead of the other way around, haha. Maybe you could train her before she gets her meals. Then she'd be reaaaaallly hungry and more cooperative?


This could very well be it. I've tried making her meal time be training time, and she'd rather not eat then sit for a kibble. She's so damn stubborn. And if I don't walk Gizmo he gets cabin-fever and goes nuts. She'd rather curl up in daddy's lap then go for walkies with mommy.


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## yappypappymom

Ack..according to you guys, Leif may not even be a real pap at all...I feel like I am "cheating" when I try new tricks out on him..he soaks them all up like a sponge...I admit that I only have to put minimal effort into his "teachings"...the rest, he does on his own...&, to top it off, NO, he really ISN'T all that interested in a food reward...go figure, eh?!?!...I think that he may be Einstein reincarinated as my puppy dog


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## yappypappymom

&, yes, to reply to the "fru-fru" comment...Leif personally turned a pale shade of green when I read it out loud to him!!  "Fru-Fru my foot"!!! LOL ....he thinks he thinks hes full-blooded pit-bull!!


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## PappyMom

Hehe! That is how Gizmo is.. insanely smart!! and he lets me know it. He knows several casual phrases even, SO says I'm crazy and giving him too much credit, but he has the same response every time..things like "Let's go outside", "Wanna go for a ride?", "Are you momma's boy?" "Want drinkies!?" And "How about some coffee?" always gets a good groan from the crate..lmao!

He also has all of his toys named, and will search for them endlessly and bring them to me. His favorite is Wally the Walrus.


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## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> This could very well be it. I've tried making her meal time be training time, and she'd rather not eat then sit for a kibble. She's so damn stubborn. And if I don't walk Gizmo he gets cabin-fever and goes nuts. She'd rather curl up in daddy's lap then go for walkies with mommy.


Ugh, Cadence is the same way!!! I hate it. When he gets tired of trying to do what I'm making him do cos he keeps doing it wrong........ he just ignores me and walks away. Geeez. Same thing when I try to roll him over. He just runs away.

Btw, IMO low energy is good! Haha, I keep hoping that Cadence will stop being such a spaz. He is SUCH A SPAZ. ALL THE TIME. I don't know where he gets his energy from. There must be a gatorade factory in his tummy somewhere...


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## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> There must be a gatorade factory in his tummy somewhere...


LOL, my boyfriend and I just got a big kick out of this statement! We always said caffiene just flows through Giz's veins. I love his energy level now, though, it's perfect. He's content with a jog from me, and he'll be happy the rest of the night. Not saying he wouldn't like to keep going, but he's figured out his off switch, I guess.


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## yappypappymom

lucidity said:


> Ugh, Cadence is the same way!!! I hate it. When he gets tired of trying to do what I'm making him do cos he keeps doing it wrong........ he just ignores me and walks away. Geeez. Same thing when I try to roll him over. He just runs away.


A great reminder here is...always start with the "tricks" that Cadence is used to/good at...reward..then, add the newer ones..if he follows through, perfect, REWARD...if he's losing interest, go back to a basic comand (sit) for example, have him do that, & reward like silly so that you end training on a positave note....by doing this, you will find that its easier to add new "tricks" to the repertoire as a fun, new thing, vs. the boring old tricks. Give it a go..lemme know if it works


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## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> LOL, my boyfriend and I just got a big kick out of this statement! We always said caffiene just flows through Giz's veins. I love his energy level now, though, it's perfect. He's content with a jog from me, and he'll be happy the rest of the night. Not saying he wouldn't like to keep going, but he's figured out his off switch, I guess.


Hahaha, caffeine is a good one too!! Giz is almost 2, right? When did he start mellowing out? Ughhh it feels like I've been waiting foreverrrr. Lol.



yappypappymom said:


> A great reminder here is...always stare with the "tricks" that Cadence is used to/good at...reward..then, add the newer ones..if he follows through, perfect, REWARD...if he's losing interest, go back to a basic comand (sit) for example, have him do that, & reward like silly so that you end training on a positave note....by doing this, you will find that its easier to add new "tricks" to the repertoire as a fun, new thing, vs. the boring old tricks. Give it a go..lemme know if it works


That's what I do! Lol. But once I go back to the easy trick and he gets the treat...... he's not interested anymore. Sigh. He also has this habit of running away when I try to touch him. He thinks it's a game!!  That's why I've been having so much trouble teaching him to rollover. Luring him into it doesn't seem to work either........ I think I'll have to skip that and start teaching him another trick, lol.


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## PappyMom

Yes, the trick switching is a great idea, something to definitely try. With Gizmo, even just switching his treats for a new trick, regains his interest.


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## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Hahaha, caffeine is a good one too!! Giz is almost 2, right? When did he start mellowing out? Ughhh it feels like I've been waiting foreverrrr. Lol.


He was muchhhh easier for us to deal with around a little over a year to a year and a half...where he finally got used to his routines and seeing that wasn't getting his way with me. Like I've said in other threads though, NILIF training played a HUGE role in this..lol.. He's getting better and better every day though. I've been out of commission with the flu all week and he's been very calm! He even spent all night on the couch with me, curled up on my lap!! lol!


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## yappypappymom

One of the BEST things that I have taught Leif...HANDS DOWN....is the signal for "pick-up"..if you have ever been around toddler children, you would know what I am talking about..the kids do a BACKWARDS "BYE-BYE" signal with their hands...dunno why,but, its true -its what they DO...I do this to let Leif KNOW that I am going to pick him up...its neat cuz I can see him visually "release" himself" knowing that my intention is to pick him up..on the rare occassion that he decides that "ummm..noooo-pickye-upy-for me"..I leave him alone, & proceede to have my own private party that he is just dying to get invited to!! *winks* I AM "smarter" than my doggie....poor fellah


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## PappyMom

LOL, Aw, well, Leif's is much more appropriate then ours! Gizmo would always turn around with his butt to us, when we'd go to pick him up, so jokingly we'd say "Gimme your butt!!", pick him up and snuggles and kisses. Eventually, it came to be that I'd just have to say gimme your butt, and he'd turn around and wait.. LMAO! We try to refrain from that one in public.

Speaking of toddlers...are all of your Paps as kid-oriented as mine are? Mine go nutsss when they see a kid..esp one they know.. They will wag and whine till they get pets..Roxy especially! Gizmo is not allowed to put his paws on kids. With my nephew being just under 2, Gizmo's 11 lbs can be a blunt force on him...so he knows 4 on the floor. But there is just no excuse for when my nephew's crackers end up missing!! LOL


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## Deron_dog

Oh no I don't think Paps are Fru Fru either, He thought my Boston's Were Fru Fru at first too. But I've met some really awesome Paps when I was younger with my mom in the show circuit. And I want one I really really do, mom thinks I'm cracked.


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## PappyMom

Hehehe, well not ALL Paps are fru fru. My Roxy is very much. Personally, I'd opt for a boy if you want a more rugged Pap. And tell your SO that all your friends on DF said that you have to.


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## Deron_dog

He said some rather choice words, I still say we should just get rid of the SO So I can have whatever i want again LOL!


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## lucidity

Lol, I don't bother with "pick me up" at all.. I just use "stay" for everything. And whenever I say stay, Cadence knows I MEAN IT. I've gotten reallyyyyy mad at him once for NOT staying, and I think he learned from that experience. Lol. Now whenever we're out and I need to get him back on the leash, I don't bother saying "come" because it's usually a hit and miss.. I just say "stay"! and he'll sit there and wait for me to leash him back up. If I need to pick him up, I'll say stay too, and he sits down and waits to see what I'm gonna come and do.. haha.


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## Laurelin

tw1n said:


> So, ever sense I joined these forums I've oddly been drawn to Papillons, going against my manly urges to have a manly dog LoL. I used to show my wife pictures of Summer trying to convince her we should get one, and she always said no.
> 
> Saturday we went to Kohls, and sitting outside on this raised flower bed was this little Papillon. I walked over, being like the only person in the parking lot other than the owner who knew what it was. My wife was instantly sold, she now wants a Papillon.
> 
> Also, the owner kept telling everyone that he dog didn't have ear fringes because it was a girl. I kept saying it was because it was so younge. But he just kept on telling everyone that only boys have ear fringes. So...
> 
> 
> You all have boy dogs.


Lol! All my dogs are boys? They're great dogs and only foo foo on the outside. Once you get to know them they're anything but foo foo.



> PS. Laur, in the Beau and munchkins pic..is that puppy Nard and his very Gizmo-esque brother?


Sister actually! I haven't seen her since they were that young unfortunately. Her name is Sam (Samantha). She was a little spitfire!

ETA: Rose is a little froo froo. She's more independent and aloof and a LOT lower key than the others. She takes longer to pick things up than the rest some days, same with Nard. They're not stupid, just less biddable than the rest. Most the time we train Rose is trying to figure out how to get the cookie without doing the work, lol. Summer is a little froo when it comes to water but otherwise not so much. Mia is nothing close to froo froo and neither are the boys. Beau, Mia, and Summer are really like cheating to train. Especially Summer. She has a huge list of tricks we learned and she usually gets them in 1-2 sittings, even the more complicated ones.

Btw Beau didn't mellow out any until he was 4 years. Even then at 5 he is much higher energy than almost any dog I've ever met. The only ones that can outlast him so far have been two JRTs. Oh and my dad who has always had large hunting dogs is in complete love with this breed. His heart dog is Rose, the most froo froo dog on the planet.  He carries her around and babytalks her. He keeps talking about getting a manly dog as his next dog and I mean he needs to be honest. He'll just end up with another pap, I know!


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## Crantastic

PappyMom said:


> Question for my fellow Pap ownerssss:
> 
> Gosh, we all know Roxy and Gizmo have always been the exact opposite, but tbh..sometimes I just don't think she's a Pap. She really has nooo energy, esp compared to Giz. She'll run around and play for maybe 15-30 mins, and then she's done. And she has no motivation to learn ANYTHING. Gizmo will learn a new command for me in a matter of minutes..and repeat repeat repeat it, like i've trained it for weeks!


Crystal is a combination of the two. She loves to go for walks and can walk forever (our longest so far was a six-hour walk around Toronto), and she will go nuts chasing her ball around the house, but most of the time she just chills out on a dog bed or in the armchair watching birds out the window. She's a pretty calm dog in general. And she is crazy fast at learning tricks. I think I only had to show her most of her tricks maybe five times and she had them down. The only one she had any sort of trouble with was "roll over," just because she didn't like doing it!

Here's an example: I taught her to tap things (my extended hand, an object) with her paw when I say "touch." Once she'd had that down for a while, I decided to teach her to high five. I held up my hand and said, 'High five!" She looked at me all confused... she'd never heard the command before and had no idea what I meant. I said, "It's like touch, only up high, see?" And she reached up and high fived me. After that one time, she'd give a high five on command, with no mention of the word touch. Sometimes she's so clever it actually freaks me out a bit.


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## lucidity

Hahaha, Laurelin your dad is hilarious!! I don't think I could imagine my dad ever baby talking a frou frou dog. Lol.

Btw, I thought you'd like these photos (since you love hound tri paps):


















He's one of the past pups that my breeder sold in the past. I LOVE his colouring.


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## lucidity

Also.. thought I'd post up some new photos of Cadence 









MILKBONE!!! yum yum









Sit pretty?









Bow!









Lookie here


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## Deron_dog

I'll just sit here and enjoy the pretty...NOte: SO Said he liked the pappy the best on Westminster last night! One Step Closer wooot!!


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## Michiyo-Fir

Ha I haven't been around for a few days and this thread has so many posts!

As for Nia...she doesn't like treats so when I was trying to teach her with those it was a bit of a problem. She did usually get it between 10-15 repetitions but man did she not like doing them. When I figured out she likes to fetch and loves tennis balls teaching her tricks was so much easier. If she does the command, she gets a throw. She's pretty quick about learning it if I can just get to do do it. 

I thought she would never be able to learn roll over when I was doing treats, same with turn (spin) but with a ball she learns it in one play session, maybe 2. She's really really smart but it's hard to find things that motivate her enough to learn. I'm glad I found the tennis ball though. 

Then I made sure she'll do it without any rewards.

As for energy...I don't think she's the highest energy Pap. She does need a good run(around an 30 min or more of full speed running) everyday though plus a couple of fetch sessions and usually 2 good walks (30 min each). Doesn't really seem like that much to me. I know if I take her running full speed for about 2 hrs she's pretty pooped for half a day or so. I'll show you what happens when she's energetic and bored. This is with a bunch of toys and kongs lying around. 

























There's another 3-4 like these in my house adn I've filled all of them up with plaster 3 times already. You can see the white one is filled and starting to get chewed and scratched again...


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## Laurelin

lucidity said:


> Hahaha, Laurelin your dad is hilarious!! I don't think I could imagine my dad ever baby talking a frou frou dog. Lol.
> 
> Btw, I thought you'd like these photos (since you love hound tri paps):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's one of the past pups that my breeder sold in the past. I LOVE his colouring.


Oh man, I love the hound tris! That is one gorgeous dog.

Besides, real men love papillons.


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## lucidity

Laurelin: Lol, I love the hound tris too!! And the lemons. They're so hard to come by, though.

Michi: OMG, how on earth did Nia do that much damage?! Did she find a useful tool to knock the walls in? Lol. Maybe she found a little hammer lying around somewhere... Cadence doesn't destroy walls. He destroys his toys.  I'm running out of toys for him to play with because he destroys them all!! He destroys his plushies and then eats the filling. Yuck.


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## Laurelin

Mia is very very very high energy. She's definitely the most energy I've ever had in a dog. She turns off pretty well for the most part though. I'll have to show you what she's done since she was bored. (Destuffed the couch and ripped up the carpet in the closet) So far she hasn't chewed the walls though. 

Here's some from today.



















Do any of yours get all intense when stalking prey? Mia's tail goes down and her head goes down and she gets all slinky. My others just chase after things.


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## yappypappymom

lucidity said:


> Bow


Awww...I LOVE his "bow"...too cute ..&, Michiyo...good heavens, surely Miss Nia didn't do ALL OF THAT DAMAGE by her little ole pretty self?!?! LOL

ETA: HAHAHA..just saw the updates on Mia...that girl is such a "wild child"...every time I see her, she is ALWAYS wet!


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## lucidity

yappypappymom said:


> Awww...I LOVE his "bow"...too cute ..&, Michiyo...good heavens, surely Miss Nia didn't do ALL OF THAT DAMAGE by her little ole pretty self?!?! LOL
> 
> ETA: HAHAHA..just saw the updates on Mia...that girl is such a "wild child"...every time I see her, she is ALWAYS wet!


Lol, thanks! 

Laurelin: HAHAH I LOVE Mia's facial expressions. They're always so hilarious!! I don't think Cadence even KNOWS how to make his face look like that. But no, he doesn't ever stalk anything. When he sees a bird for instance, he looks at it with one leg up and looks all confused. He's also a big scardy cat!! Sometimes when I'm walking him at night he'll get started by the leaves rustling and run off....... leaving me alone... and feeling scared that he saw/heard something/someone I DIDN'T!! He makes me scared to walk him at night, gah.


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## Laurelin

Yeah wild child is about right lol.

Mia says can you guys do this?










Sometimes I wonder about her.


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## yappypappymom

Actually, at night time is when I take the greatest advantage to taking Leif out without a leash to work on his recalling abilities. When I first began, I found that the daytime was just too much stimuli...after loading my pockets lined with the best cuts of beef or chicken...I now have his recall down to 100%...at nighttime only...I am too scared to to try this during the busy day time yet though ...hes still young...we have pleanty of time, &, I'm not "rushing" it either. LOL


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## yappypappymom

Laurelin said:


> Yeah wild child is about right lol.
> 
> Mia says can you guys do this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes I wonder about her.


 Leif just asked me IF I WANTED him to do that...LOL HAHAHA!!


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## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> Sometimes I wonder about her.


Nia can and does! I'll have to dig up a pic later


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## PappyMom

LOL, Laur, the thing about stalking the prey. Gizmo does that really bad..lmao.. He gets very cat like about it, then pounces at the last minute. He'll also lay down on his belly, and then crawl to his prey if he wants to be even more 'sneaky'.. (like anyone'd miss those ears.)

Lucidity, Cadence will find his inner manly-man. Gizmo was a HUGE chicken as a pup...until one night after work when, around a little after 11pm, I had taken him out for potties so I could go to bed. I thought it was really weird that he was glued to my side, since he was always really aloof. He got really low to the ground and was snarling and growling. I looked around and couldn't see a thing and was getting frusterated, kept telling him C'mon potty time!! All of a sudden he started barking like crazy, and this man came from around the corner of my porch like RIGHT at me with something in his hands. I didn't even have time to react, Gizmo had already charged AND bit him. I'm not sure if he broke skin, it didn't seem like he bit hard..but it was enough to make the man yell, while this crazy dog is barking like nuts..my boyfriend ran out and so did my other apartment neighbors and chased him off. After we called the cops, we found that a) they were investigating robberies in our area, and b) our town and neighboring towns had been having a rough time with dognapping. I thank god for being outside with Gizmo that night, every day..lol.

Love the pic updates guys!! Cadence is really growing into quite the gorgeous little man!!


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## lucidity

OMG!! That is SO creepy. Good thing you had Giz with you! I think Cadence is finally starting to be a bit more weary of strangers now. Before, he used to just go up to everyyyyyybody to say hi! Now he tentatively walks towards them and if they make sudden movements, he bolts. Lol. But once he realizes they're nice he still goes up and licks them all over, though.. haha.


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## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> OMG!! That is SO creepy. Good thing you had Giz with you! I think Cadence is finally starting to be a bit more weary of strangers now. Before, he used to just go up to everyyyyyybody to say hi! Now he tentatively walks towards them and if they make sudden movements, he bolts. Lol. But once he realizes they're nice he still goes up and licks them all over, though.. haha.


Nia is the same. Wags her butt like crazy but she'll move away if someone makes a sudden movement like a grab. She goes back to lick after though.

As for stalking, Nia doesn't do it the way Mia does. She pounces on things and stalks them but not low to the ground with her tail like that.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Here's Nia's Mia impression!
1. 









2. 









Her best bunny impression









Auntie says I look Asian because I'm always squinty eyed under the sun... (hey I'm Asian so it's not racist LOL)


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## Deron_dog

Don't tell the SO but...I'm talking to some people about a pappy that may need a new home...(walks away whistling) Shhh, its our Secret! (is excited)


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## lucidity

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Auntie says I look Asian because I'm always squinty eyed under the sun... (hey I'm Asian so it's not racist LOL)


LOL! That's really funny. Maybe Nia is Asian inside as well  Cadence used to squint alot too, when he was young!









This is a really bad photo, mostly because he was sleepy and I woke him up with the camera. Haha.

And I found more baby photos... this is him as 10-11 weeks!



















Man.. I want him to go back to being tiny and cute! Lol.


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## PappyMom

Omg, Cadence was the cutest puppy everrrrrrrrrr...

Gizmo went off to the groomers today!! Came back much whiter and trimmed in all the right places!! You'll be happy to know his fringe is still all there!!










But he's EXHAUSTED now!! We went to the DP for an hour and to the reg park for an hour and a half before his appt! Wanted him to behave for the groomer. So this is the only face I could get --->


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh my gosh that face is the cutest thing ever! Especially when he actually fell asleep! It looks so much like a little puppy face!

Cadence was such a cute puppy! Now he looks all grown up. His ears were really big!


----------



## lucidity

LOL! I agree! Giz looks totally adorable sleeping 

And thanks!  He DID have huge ears.. somehow all paps ears look super huge when they're babies, and when they grow up it doesn't look that oversized anymore.. lol.. maybe except for Laurelin's Summer. Haha.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

2 more random ones. Just playing with my lens.

Nia's perch


----------



## Laurelin

Nia is gorgeous! Wow, she's turning into a pretty lady!



lucidity said:


> LOL! I agree! Giz looks totally adorable sleeping
> 
> And thanks!  He DID have huge ears.. somehow all paps ears look super huge when they're babies, and when they grow up it doesn't look that oversized anymore.. lol.. maybe except for Laurelin's Summer. Haha.


Summer asks, "My ears be bigs?"


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Is it common for Papillons to have very runny eyes? In the last 2 Nia pics her teary eyes are running all the way unto her nose. 

The last Summer picture I can see some tear stains too.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer gets runny eyes pretty bad. Mia doesn't. Summer's eye runs really bad on the eye she just had surgery on. I don't know if the lump on it made her eye runnier or not. I usually clean them every day but can't really while she has stitches in her eye.


----------



## lucidity

Lol, Laurelin those are SOME HUGE EARS!!

Michi: yeah, I wonder too!! Leif's mom says that he gets really bad tear stains too. =/ Cadence is ALWAYS tearing. I have to wipe his eyes at least 4-5 times a day. It's a good thing he doesn't have light coloured fur around his eyes.


----------



## yappypappymom

Well, I FINALLY got my camera issues "sorted" out...replaced my memory card, then, couldnt find my power cord to charge my cam...when it rains - it pours...(OR, in MY case, it snows) LOL...sick of snow here 

Here is Leif looking all embarrased over having to "pose" with soda...I overheard his thoughts too...he was thinking...."whos DUMB idea WAS this anyhow"?? LOL (I lied & told him it was all of *your* guys' idea)..LOL

He REALLY hated this from the beginning...
















ACK!! What in the HECK are you adding MORE for???










BTW...all of the ladies are looking quite lovely Leif wanted me to add ....(I caught him with a Pap book just the other day he had hidden under his kennel...oooooo...he's naughty over the ladies"


----------



## lucidity

Hahaha, I love his expression!! He looks so pissed off in all the photos LOL


----------



## yappypappymom

Ya, the first one was the funniest to me...again, I just swore that it WASN'T MY idea


----------



## Lil RiRi

Here are some new pictures sent from Aylin's breeder. We haven't picked out a name for her yet.. so instead of calling her unnamed, I'll refer to her as Aylin which the breeder is calling her.









So cute!!!








My sister thinks they posed her with her legs crossed. But, I like to think she is a lady and thats how ladies lay. Lol.









This is her dad at 8 months. Look how hairy! I hope she gets some of her dad.

She is 4 1/2 months. Only a couple more day!


----------



## lucidity

Lol! So THAT is why she looks so gangly and bare! I was wondering if she was going through the "uglies"  Her dad has an awesome tail! And I think she looks JUST like her dad.


----------



## Lil RiRi

lucidity said:


> Lol! So THAT is why she looks so gangly and bare! I was wondering if she was going through the "uglies"  Her dad has an awesome tail! And I think she looks JUST like her dad.


Yeah! Lol. Riley went through the worst puppy uglies. He still hasn't fully recovered. His fringe is ok, but the back end of his body doesn't seem to want to grow very fast! 

















see.. ? Lol


----------



## lucidity

LOL! How old is Riley now?? Man, I'd take fringe over fur! Cadence doesn't really have any fringe, but his tail/rest of his body is growing out really well now. He was SO BARE when he was going through the uglies! Everyone kept asking me if he's supposed to be short coated.


----------



## Lil RiRi

lucidity said:


> LOL! How old is Riley now?? Man, I'd take fringe over fur! Cadence doesn't really have any fringe, but his tail/rest of his body is growing out really well now. He was SO BARE when he was going through the uglies! Everyone kept asking me if he's supposed to be short coated.


He is almost 15 months


----------



## lucidity

Oooh, don't worry, I'm sure his coat will come in soon! And then he'll just be a pain to clean up after he plays out in the rain/muck, lol!


----------



## yappypappymom

I have the PERFECT solution!!! Let me wallk you through this...hows-about I take little Ms. Aylin off of your hands & I trade you a tennis ball, or something that Reily will have a blast with?? He names it,-I provide it!! I find it sooo sad that he will have to share HIS house with SOME GIRL!!...He may be ruined for life!!..well...thats my pitiful attempt at snatching your new gal away...in all honesty, did it make you cave even just a "tiny" bit??? LOL Leif thinks that she is his soul mate  He has MUCH love for your new baby!!! *yes, the neuter scooter is coming for him soon enough*....PLEASE DON'T TELL HIM THIS!!!...Yikes!!!


----------



## KarenD

I just got my Cooper last week. He's about 19 weeks old now and so adorable. This is him guarding his squirrel, which is his favorite toy so far.


----------



## Laurelin

KarenD said:


> I just got my Cooper last week. He's about 19 weeks old now and so adorable. This is him guarding his squirrel, which is his favorite toy so far.


He's gorgeous! He's going to have great ears too! 

PS: Mia has that exact squirrel toy.


----------



## KarenD

Laurelin said:


> He's gorgeous! He's going to have great ears too!
> 
> PS: Mia has that exact squirrel toy.


I think he's pretty gorgeous too.  Sadly, I can't leave the squirrel with him all day, as his favorite thing to do with it is to pull the fur off. But he loves to chase it. Since he refuses to go out in the snow, that's how I exercise him everyday.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow Cooper is so pretty! I LOVE his markings!


----------



## Cowgirl Kristin

The pictures are adorable! In the future (after college), I plan on getting a Papillon.


----------



## PappyMom

Wanted to pass along a link that I recieved from a member of the PCA, they are conducting a health study on Paps for 2010. The forum isn't allowing me to copy and paste the whole email at this time, so for now I will post the link to the survey. They'd like you to fill it out for each Papillon you own. There are no personal questions other than what country you reside in.

WEB ADDRESS TO TAKE SURVEY : 
www.offa.org/surveys/survey_papillon.html


----------



## tw1n

So I let my wife read this thread lastnight... she now wants a male tri color papillon....


and she wants to name it Gizmo.


Now to find a breeder and save up money LoL.


----------



## PappyMom

tw1n said:


> So I let my wife read this thread lastnight... she now wants a male tri color papillon....
> 
> 
> and she wants to name it Gizmo.
> 
> 
> Now to find a breeder and save up money LoL.


Hehehe, my Gizmo says only if we can come down to Florida and play! =P (We'd invite you up here to play, but uhm, we much perfer to get away from the snow!)


----------



## Lil RiRi

Finally, brought home "Aylin"! Riley was loving her the first day, the second day he was over her, the third day he started warming up to her. He started showing her whose boss. She was running the show. Punking Riley out his treats, stealing his toys, and sleeping in his bed. Now, she has learned her role. They are now best friends. Sort of.. lol








She actually loves that tennis ball. Riley could care less








He wanted to get his picture taken, too!








Tug-o-War!








Guess who won?!








Of course, she did. She rules this home already!


----------



## lucidity

Aww, I'm loving the pics!! Can we have more please?  What are you going to name her? Or is the name "Aylin" going to stick? I actually like that name. It's so girllyyy


----------



## yappypappymom

OMG!! *squee*!! I LOVE her!! She is to die for!! *soooo jealous* - LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

She's so puuurty! I love her HUGE ears! Summer may have some competition in the future


----------



## Lil RiRi

lucidity said:


> Aww, I'm loving the pics!! Can we have more please?  What are you going to name her? Or is the name "Aylin" going to stick? I actually like that name. It's so girllyyy


Lol. I will try and take more! I don't know. She came to us such a good puppy. She sleeps in her crate with not even one peep. She responds and comes running to Aylin. So, if we change it we really need to do it soon, because she has sort of got it set that thats her name. I am so fickle and its so hard for me to pick a name.


----------



## Lil RiRi

Michiyo-Fir said:


> She's so puuurty! I love her HUGE ears! Summer may have some competition in the future


I cant wait for her to get out of this "ugly" stage to see what she will really look like. Her ears are huge. I think shes also going to be a bigger papillon. She 4.4 lbs and is about 4.5 months. Riley was 5lbs at 6 months. He ended up filling out at 6.6 lbs.


----------



## lucidity

Lol! Wow, she sounds like a smart little girl! Don't worry, as long as you make up your mind soon she'll be fine with the name change  Cadence used to respond to the name that his breeder gave him too (Dillan), I think he still does now! 

6.6lbs is pretty tiny for a boy pap, actually! Cadence was 3.9lbs at 11 weeks, and he's now around 7.5-8lbs at 8 months, so I don't think Aylin will be all that big!


----------



## yappypappymom

Lil RiRi said:


> I cant wait for her to get out of this "ugly" stage


Ohhhh nooooo....I see NOTHING "ugly" 'bout this gal!! She is PERFECT!!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Lil RiRi said:


> I cant wait for her to get out of this "ugly" stage to see what she will really look like. Her ears are huge. I think shes also going to be a bigger papillon. She 4.4 lbs and is about 4.5 months. Riley was 5lbs at 6 months. He ended up filling out at 6.6 lbs.


I think she may end up around 7 lbs. Nia was 5 lbs at 6 months old and she's 6-7 lbs now depending on the day. Recently she hasn't been eating much so she's down to 6 again. Some dogs eat more and keep more weight on. Nia's pretty tall but skinny so she's light lol.

I'd love to see her grow up hehe.


----------



## PappyMom

Oh my gosssshhhh, Ayelin is SO cute...and I love her name. Aaahhh, I have Pappy puppy fever, again.

PS Michiyo, I found pictures of Roxy's mom and dad!! I'll have to post them on here later for you to see, I know you are into that! I forgot just how adorable they were. Found out Roxy's mom was spayed though. =[ Bummer, I was really hoping they'd have another litter, I would've been tempted to get another!!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

OMG this thread makes me want a papillon!!!!! All your babies are adorable!!!!


----------



## PappyMom

Here is Roxy's dad, Romo:









And her mom, Zoey, who was recently spayed:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow! Roxy really looks like her dad!


----------



## yappypappymom

I know!! She is darn near his EXACT little clone  That is neat to see!


----------



## lucidity

Wow!! Roxy is like a clone of her dad... with her mom's blaze  And awww her mom looks so sad with the "cone of shame"! Lol.


----------



## PappyMom

I loveeed her dad's markings. Roxy's brothers all looked like her dad, though, except for 1 who was pure black and white with drop ears. He was the mail-pap's son. =P Roxy's has grown up lovely from those 2 though. She's lightened up sooo much more though, she looked more like her dad when she was younger. I never realized how small her mom was though, but mom and Dad were both 5 lbs.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

A couple new pics from today. 

I swear that's her favorite pose. Every time I try to snap a picture she raises a leg lol



















mmmm, I smell duck for dinner!









No you say?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

This picture reminds me of a painting but I really like it.


----------



## Laurelin

Aylin is sooo cute! Congrats on the new addition!

Nia is looking very mature. Her hair and fringe has come in well.


----------



## Laurelin

My two girls. Should have pics of the other 3 next week!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Woah! It's Summer with a Beau look!


----------



## lucidity

Loving the new pictures guys!! I might have more of Cadence tomorrow Weather's been awesome but he was at daycare today, lol. PS, michi, you can now post 10 pics in a single message!


----------



## Laurelin

Mia has been a bad influence.


----------



## PappyMom

Laur, you take such beautiful pictures. I'm going to send my furkids to you to be photographed. =P We can do over night shipping, right? lol!

Guys, I am seriously thinking of inquiring about this guy:
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/15654798?recno=0

SO is gunna shoot me.


----------



## lucidity

That guy reminds me of Giz!!  Must be the adorable mismark  Is that why you like him?


----------



## PappyMom

Lucidity, yesss, I love the mismarks! I have a real thing for him!! Plus he looks like he could run with Gizzo, all day!!

Got a few new pics of the kids, nothin' too special though!!









_Peek-a-boo!_









_Rides in da carrr?_









_Yaaaays! Rides in da car!!_









_I'z not lowdz on da couch, buttt, could yew resistz this face!?_









_Mama sayz my nose is like a button dat she wantsa kiss!_


----------



## PappyMom

_nom-nom-nom.._









_Moooommm, moufz full!!_









_Pwetty, yesss?_









_Iz growin' up!!_









_Yes, we wubblez eachudda..Treatz now, plz, thx!?_


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Lol! We all have the same tennis ball!


----------



## lucidity

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Lol! We all have the same tennis ball!


And they all get shredded!! Haha... I'm missing some. I gotta go hunt for them. Sigh. Cadence likes hiding balls under the sofa. 

Which size do you guys get?? The ones I got were the smallest ones.. dunno if I should start going one size up..

And.. some new photos of Cadence!


----------



## PappyMom

I get the smallest ones, too, Luc...they're the only ones that fit in Roxy's mouth. Gizmo can play with a normal size tennis ball, too, but he's more comfortable with the small ones.

Gosh, Cadence is so gorgeous. I totally love that last picture, especially. He's perfect!!


----------



## lucidity

Awww, Cadence says thank you! 

Wow.. I think the tennis ball really puts into perspective how small Roxy is!! The ball looks HUGE in her mouth haha.


----------



## PappyMom

LOL! I know..she goes nuts chasing that ball too. Little girl moves so dang fast! 

I still need to take the cereal box or 2 liter pic..I just don't have either! LOL..We don't do much cereal, because I love to cook, and we barely have soda in the house!! I do have an (empty) 1 gallon juice container that I could use, I guess? Well it's not empty, it's full of filtered water, cause we only give the puppers filtered..lol..


----------



## Rinz

This is Rinzzo. He is 11 months old, and my whole heart! Well..actually, half of my heart...Hubby is the other half 


















































































to be continued...


----------



## Rinz




----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Cute puppy! He has huge ears too! So pretty


----------



## lucidity

His ears are HUGEEE!! Summer, I think you've got company! 

How big is Rinzzo? He looks TINY.


----------



## Rinz

Give me a sec, ill take a few more pics and show you how big his ears really are those pics do him NO justice!!!! lol

he is 6 pounds on the dot, full grown


----------



## lucidity

Lol, pictures are always welcome  What I meant was, how tall is he? May I ask where you got him from? I'm loving his markings and colour!


----------



## Rinz

Tall... I dont know um let me get a measuring tape

............................................

ok, he is 11 inches from floor to back and 14ish inches from floor to top of head.

Is that bad?? normal???

I got him from a lady on craigslist who got him from a GREAT breeder, he had papers but I didnt want them as I have no need for them. She needed to get a new home for him cause she got a new job with longer hours.

He came with his crate,food,toys,ect and I payed $30 for him


----------



## lucidity

Oh.. ok. Oh no, I was just wondering. Usually to measure a dog's height, you measure from the floor up to their shoulders (kind of where their shoulder blades are. You put a ruler on their shoulders, and a tape from the floor, and where the ruler touches the tape, that's his height!)  When people ask "how big is that dog", that's what they are referring to most of the time! The Papillon breed standard says 8" to 11", just fyi. I finally measured Cadence again a few days ago.. and he grew a whopping 1 inch in the past 2 months!! And I thought he was done growing taller  Now he's at 11 1/4 inches.. which is a "fault" according to the breed standard, lol.

But WOW, $30 is REALLY CHEAP! You got a great deal  But aw, it's too bad you don't know how he breeder was, though. I'm looking around for a second pap, but none of the breeders I've seen have colours that I like. Lol.


----------



## Rinz

ok, are you ready?!?!













WAH-LAH!


----------



## PappyMom

Yesss, another Pappy owner!!

Rinzzo is SOSOSO cute.<3 I love his light color! Roxy is torn between Rinzzo, Cadence, and Leif now guys!! 

Rinzzo and Roxy are exactly the same age! When's Rinz's birthday? Roxy will be a year on the 1st of April!

And 30 bucks for that cute baby AND all that stuff? What a steal!! We got Gizmo for free, from a friend of my mother's who had a legitimate oops litter, but Roxy was 600! lol


----------



## Rinz

His birth day is March 22nd


----------



## PappyMom

Nice! That's exactly one day after Gizmo's, but Giz will be 2. 

Gosh, he is so cute!! You look like you're having a ball with him!


----------



## Rinz

I love him!!!! He is my baby!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

If paps are always 30 each I think I would have enough for a pap zoo!! 

Btw lucidity, what colors are you looking for? I may know some breeders in our area that have pups in the color you want.


----------



## lucidity

Michiyo-Fir said:


> If paps are always 30 each I think I would have enough for a pap zoo!!
> 
> Btw lucidity, what colors are you looking for? I may know some breeders in our area that have pups in the color you want.


Haha, me too!! $30 for a pap! WOW.  I'm actually looking for a light sable, red & white, or lemon & white pap. I really, really love the lemons, but I know they're so hard to come by 

I totally fell in love with this girl http://www.pap911rescue.org/animals/detail?AnimalID=2066634 while I was just browsing around the other day. But she's all the way in Toronto, sigh.

Pappymom, I think Cadence would be so in love with Roxy if he met her!!! although... he'd probably try to hump her, haha.


----------



## Laurelin

Rinz said:


> ok, are you ready?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WAH-LAH!


O.M.G WANT! He looks soooo much like Summer did as a youngster!


----------



## Rinz

what color is Rinzzo?


----------



## lucidity

I think he's a sable. I see some black hairs on his back/tail? His face is very lemon though!


----------



## Laurelin

I don't know if you've seen pictures of summer but she's a clear sable too. 



















When I first got her:



















Cran's pap also looks kind of similar to me too. LOVE that light sable!


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Pappymom, I think Cadence would be so in love with Roxy if he met her!!! although... he'd probably try to hump her, haha.


Roxy would love Cadence! She'd give him kisses and snuggles, but most importantly, (although Gizmo doesn't find it too enthralling) she will lick his whole face clean after he eats his meals. <3 She is a lady though, and she makes sure that the boys know that no means no! hehehe. I'm off to peek at your Pap911 girl. I know of a few Pap911 foster moms..


----------



## Rinz

Rinzzo has black on the tips of his easr and his tail, thats it. He does look like summers colors. cool.

Does anyone know if its normal for Rinzzo to have watery eyes that leave tear stains? they drive me crazy!!!! 

and why isnt his fur nice and long like the other papillons?


----------



## Laurelin

Rinz said:


> what color is Rinzzo?


I'd call him a clear red sable. Lemon is really a very very light red, but to me he doesn't look lemon. To me he looks similar to Summer in that they're very light reds, but still red. Summer can look almost yellow or cream in certain pics and lighting and bright red in others.


----------



## Laurelin

Rinz said:


> Rinzzo has black on the tips of his easr and his tail, thats it. He does look like summers colors. cool.
> 
> Does anyone know if its normal for Rinzzo to have watery eyes that leave tear stains? they drive me crazy!!!!
> 
> and why isnt his fur nice and long like the other papillons?


Summer's fur didn't grow until she got spayed for some reason. Her first four years were pretty naked.

Here's some older pics:





































Took her 2 years to grow that hair lol. She almost looks like a different dog to me!

The eye watering is unfortunately pretty normal in the breed. Drives me crazy. I try to clean their eyes daily but I forget a lot.


----------



## lucidity

Rinz said:


> Does anyone know if its normal for Rinzzo to have watery eyes that leave tear stains? they drive me crazy!!!!
> 
> and why isnt his fur nice and long like the other papillons?


I think all paps have watery eyes  You can look for pics of Leif in this thread..he has tear stains too, because of his light fur. I think you have to clean his eyes several times a day to keep the staining at bay.

Also, his fur is short because he's still young! It'll slowly grow out. Paps coats are only fullgrown at around 2 years old.



PappyMom said:


> Roxy would love Cadence! She'd give him kisses and snuggles, but most importantly, (although Gizmo doesn't find it too enthralling) she will lick his whole face clean after he eats his meals. <3 She is a lady though, and she makes sure that the boys know that no means no! hehehe. I'm off to peek at your Pap911 girl. I know of a few Pap911 foster moms..


Hahaha, Roxy sounds AWESOME. She should come and live with me for a while  Ooohh. That's so cool! I wish I could foster as well.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Lucidity I'll pm you a few breeders when I get home. I know 2 that are expecting red/ sable pups. 

I was wondering what causes a paps nose to be liver or black? I noticed Rinzzo has a liver nose? Can dark colors paps have liver noses? Can 2 black nosed paps produce a liver nose?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Rinz said:


> Rinzzo has black on the tips of his easr and his tail, thats it. He does look like summers colors. cool.
> 
> Does anyone know if its normal for Rinzzo to have watery eyes that leave tear stains? they drive me crazy!!!!
> 
> and why isnt his fur nice and long like the other papillons?


a lot of our paps have pretty watey eyes. Mine has very watery ones especially under direct sunlight.

Laurelin can explain the length of coat better than I can and it's too hard for me to type that much on my phone lol. I'll leave it to the pap expert.


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Lucidity I'll pm you a few breeders when I get home. I know 2 that are expecting red/ sable pups.
> 
> I was wondering what causes a paps nose to be liver or black? I noticed Rinzzo has a liver nose? Can dark colors paps have liver noses? Can 2 black nosed paps produce a liver nose?


His looks like a snow nose not true liver pigment. Sometimes it's just genetics. Liver is recessive so technically two blacks could produce a dilute. Real dilute papillons will have zero black on their bodies in pigment or fur.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...=snow nose&aql=&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi


----------



## lucidity

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Lucidity I'll pm you a few breeders when I get home. I know 2 that are expecting red/ sable pups.
> 
> I was wondering what causes a paps nose to be liver or black? I noticed Rinzzo has a liver nose? Can dark colors paps have liver noses? Can 2 black nosed paps produce a liver nose?


Sounds awesome, thanks!  

Actually, I think that brown noses usually only show up in liver colour paps. I THINK it can be disqualified at confirmation shows (brown noses, that is), but I'm not 100% certain.

Btw, Laurelin, WOW, Summer's coat has grown so much since she was spayed! I wouldn'tve recognized her at all.


----------



## Rinz

Rinzzo's nose is dark but gets lighter and lighter as it gets to the center. the center is a pinkish color. Snow nose?


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> a lot of our paps have pretty watey eyes. Mine has very watery ones especially under direct sunlight.
> 
> Laurelin can explain the length of coat better than I can and it's too hard for me to type that much on my phone lol. I'll leave it to the pap expert.


Lol, I'm far from an expert. I just talk a lot. 

Coat length depends on a lot of things. First is lineage. Some lines don't have the ear fringe/coat length others do. Especially American lines are lacking in this comparatively. Also, the lighter the color of the fringe, the less likely you are to grow a lot of fringe. Black hair is usually textured coarser and doesn't break as easily. Summer has a load of fringe for such a light dog, but it will never grow as long as say Rose's.

Also spaying bitches can help with coat length since they stop losing coat when they go into season. 

Lack of black pigment is a DQ in the ring. 

Wow you guys talk fast! LOL!


----------



## Laurelin

I found a puppy Nard pic!


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Hahaha, Roxy sounds AWESOME. She should come and live with me for a while  Ooohh. That's so cool! I wish I could foster as well.


lol! Roxy is really growing on me, the more quirky she gets! Just today she wanted to eat from her brothers bowl, which we supervise feeding closely, because before Roxy he was food aggressive..but he tends to share with her.. and he was scarfing down his kibble, and all of a sudden Roxy gets on her belly and crawls underneath him to his bowl, gets up, dips her head in and starts munching away. Poor Giz was so confused! LOL

They're a package deal, though. I can have both of them Fed ex'd to you in the AM! Me and Lily can have some puggie-bonding time! Sometimes I think she takes the backseat to the Paps anyway. People tend to migrate to the cute fluffy dogs.

I've been looking in to fostering, but I think I've got enough on my plate for now! Maybe some day in the future, like when we get our house.. My 3 now are more then I can handle in this little place..lol, but we manage. I have a breeder set up for an American Bulldog puppy, when we buy our house..which I'm really excited about!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I love nard! He's such a funny little dog!


----------



## Laurelin

Going through older pics





































I can't believe he's about to turn *2*! Where does the time go?


----------



## yappypappymom

I LOVE Rinzzo!!! He looks as if a big breeze came along, he would fly right away with his parachute ears!! GORGEOUS little fella! Welcome to DF's too Rinz 

Cadence, Gizzy & Roxy,& Summer(she is the TINIEST pap EVER I think) are all looking smashingly fantastic w/their new pics as well!! LOVE the paps!! 

PS-about the eyes, Leifs "leak" ALOT when its windy outside.


----------



## yappypappymom

Rinz said:


> Rinzzo's nose is dark but gets lighter and lighter as it gets to the center. the center is a pinkish color. Snow nose?


Maybe its what I have been reading could be "snow nose"?? Has it EVER been all black before?


ETA - baby Nard is soooo cute!!! His little lazy tongue slays me!!


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> lol! Roxy is really growing on me, the more quirky she gets! Just today she wanted to eat from her brothers bowl, which we supervise feeding closely, because before Roxy he was food aggressive..but he tends to share with her.. and he was scarfing down his kibble, and all of a sudden Roxy gets on her belly and crawls underneath him to his bowl, gets up, dips her head in and starts munching away. Poor Giz was so confused! LOL
> 
> They're a package deal, though. I can have both of them Fed ex'd to you in the AM! Me and Lily can have some puggie-bonding time! Sometimes I think she takes the backseat to the Paps anyway. People tend to migrate to the cute fluffy dogs.
> 
> I've been looking in to fostering, but I think I've got enough on my plate for now! Maybe some day in the future, like when we get our house.. My 3 now are more then I can handle in this little place..lol, but we manage. I have a breeder set up for an American Bulldog puppy, when we buy our house..which I'm really excited about!


Haha, you know what, that's a deal!! Giz and Cadence can tire each other out, and Roxy will put them in their place.  Giz sounds like such a good sport, though, with Roxy!

Yeah, I always wish that I lived in a house with a yard.  I would definitely foster, and I would definitely have more dogs and a cat, too! Cadence is always SUPER curious about my neighbour's cat. She's always sitting on the porch when it's sunny and whenever I walk Cadence past her, she comes down and hisses at him and her fur stands up, lol. It's sad, because Cadence seems to really want to know her better! Whenever we walk pass, he'll stop there for a minute to watch if the cat is out. Haha.


----------



## PappyMom

LOL, I love how all the Pappy owners are almost all on at once!

Andddd pfft, I want more Leif pics!! I love his little bandit mask!


----------



## Laurelin

Get ready guys.... here it comes.....










Dawwwwwwww.


----------



## lucidity

Laurelin said:


> Going through older pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe he's about to turn *2*! Where does the time go?


Haha, time flies, doesn't it? But AWW NARD!! I like how he's all white except of his head and tail!! Kind of like Cadence


----------



## Rinz

I dont know if it has ever been all black or not....


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Haha, you know what, that's a deal!! Giz and Cadence can tire each other out, and Roxy will put them in their place.  Giz sounds like such a good sport, though, with Roxy!
> 
> Yeah, I always wish that I lived in a house with a yard.  I would definitely foster, and I would definitely have more dogs and a cat, too! Cadence is always SUPER curious about my neighbour's cat. She's always sitting on the porch when it's sunny and whenever I walk Cadence past her, she comes down and hisses at him and her fur stands up, lol. It's sad, because Cadence seems to really want to know her better! Whenever we walk pass, he'll stop there for a minute to watch if the cat is out. Haha.



LOL, Gizmo is insanely interested in my mother's cat Paris. I think cause she kind of looks like him, fluffy and white.. (she's a huge gorgeous cat, all white with big green eyes)..and she wants nothing to do with him. It took a couple swats for him to learn..lol!

Giz is amazing with Roxy. The only other dog he had this bond with was our Pei, Noodles. He doesn't really have a bond with Lily, but he tolerates her. He hated our foster Puggle, but she was pretty mean to him.. 

I can't do cats, though..lol..They're cute and all, but I have no desire for one. I hate litter boxes..for one, lol, and all the cats I've met have been rude prissy little (female dogs). =P


----------



## Rinz

Laurelin said:


> Get ready guys.... here it comes.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dawwwwwwww.


OMG *drools*


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> LOL, Gizmo is insanely interested in my mother's cat Paris. I think cause she kind of looks like him, fluffy and white.. (she's a huge gorgeous cat, all white with big green eyes)..and she wants nothing to do with him. It took a couple swats for him to learn..lol!
> 
> Giz is amazing with Roxy. The only other dog he had this bond with was our Pei, Noodles. He doesn't really have a bond with Lily, but he tolerates her. He hated our foster Puggle, but she was pretty mean to him..
> 
> I can't do cats, though..lol..They're cute and all, but I have no desire for one. I hate litter boxes..for one, lol, and all the cats I've met have been rude prissy little (female dogs). =P


Haha, I can imagine those swats hurt!!! But I really love Ragdolls. They're such gorgeous cats! Actually, I never used to like cats either! Until I met my cousin's cat. I stayed at their place for a week, and her cat followed me EVERYWHERE (I swear, he's a pap in disguise). He'd jump on my lap and keep on purring until I petted him. If I stopped, he'd look at me and purr again! It came to a point when I was petting him not because I WANTED to, but because I was tired of listening to him purr haha. Most clingy cat, ever!!

I think Giz might feel like Roxy is really his sis, that's why? I mean, he's seen her grow up from a baby to what she is now! Awwww. How old was Roxy when you got her?


----------



## Laurelin

Rinz said:


> OMG *drools*


Thanks! I miss those days sometimes. She's almost a year old now. Hard to believe.


----------



## yappypappymom

Side note, while the pap members are "on board"...how do you guys weigh your paps? I thought Leif was around 7lbs, but, put him in a baggie(he is STILL embarrased by this I think), & hung it from my hubbys fish scale...he is only 5lbs. 3 oz's..I thought he weighed MORE!! How "accurate" is ya'll's scales?


----------



## PappyMom

Oh gosh, Laur's got me going through my old albums!

This is the face that stole my heart, almost 2 years ago!









He was always up his brother's butt LOL:

















Aww lol! Belly up..look at his lil peeper peekin'.. hehehehe. I'm so strange.


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Haha, I can imagine those swats hurt!!! But I really love Ragdolls. They're such gorgeous cats! Actually, I never used to like cats either! Until I met my cousin's cat. I stayed at their place for a week, and her cat followed me EVERYWHERE (I swear, he's a pap in disguise). He'd jump on my lap and keep on purring until I petted him. If I stopped, he'd look at me and purr again! It came to a point when I was petting him not because I WANTED to, but because I was tired of listening to him purr haha. Most clingy cat, ever!!
> 
> I think Giz might feel like Roxy is really his sis, that's why? I mean, he's seen her grow up from a baby to what she is now! Awwww. How old was Roxy when you got her?


Ragdolls are cute! I love me some Persians too! I will live vicariously through other cat owners though!! LOL

It could be, she's kind of the only dog to allow him to be the pack leader. She listens well to all of his corrections. She was 8 weeks old when we got her. <3.. Gosh she has changed so much!

And Yappypappy, we just let the vet weigh them.. I'm a nut about frequent check ups..and my vet is absolutely fabulous. =]


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

yappypappymom said:


> Side note, while the pap members are "on board"...how do you guys weigh your paps? I thought Leif was around 7lbs, but, put him in a baggie(he is STILL embarrased by this I think), & hung it from my hubbys fish scale...he is only 5lbs. 3 oz's..I thought he weighed MORE!! How "accurate" is ya'll's scales?


I just hold Nia while I weigh myself and then subtract my weight after. It works pretty well!


----------



## yappypappymom

PappyMom said:


> And Yappypappy, we just let the vet weigh them.. I'm a nut about frequent check ups..and my vet is absolutely fabulous. =]





Michiyo-Fir said:


> I just hold Nia while I weigh myself and then subtract my weight after. It works pretty well!


Leif is not due for vet until August I think, so, I have been "winging" his weight...last time they weighed him, he rang in at 4lbs. 9oz. I really thought that he had gained more weight since then. Suppose its all just "hair" though! My BR scale is "off", & isn't always accurate(how lovely for days of feeling "fat") LOL, so, I found the fish scale to be more accurate - according to it, Leif would have to be "thrown back" into the pond -LOL

ETA -PappyMom..Gizzy is one of the MOST adorable mismarks that I have EVER seen! Any news of the CL(I think it was)mismark that you were looking at???


----------



## Rinz

yappypappymom - Im in Virgina too!!! 

And Rinzzo is 6 pounds, he got weighed at the vet.


----------



## PappyMom

yappypappymom said:


> ETA -PappyMom..Gizzy is one of the MOST adorable mismarks that I have EVER seen! Any news of the CL(I think it was)mismark that you were looking at???


Hehehe, thank you. <3 And it was petfinder, lol, and I still haven't inquired about him. Too worried the SO is going to shoot me. If he's still there at the end of next week, I'm going to send an email.


----------



## Crantastic

Wow, lots of posts!

Crystal is a light red, especially on the face. Her cheeks are especially light. She has quite a bit of black in her ears, and she has the "fox tail" with the red at the base and a ring of black.



















She also loves cats!


----------



## Rinz

shes beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Rinz

Ok, so there is a lady like 30 minutes form me who has a papillon who needs a home. He is a male,neutered,2 years old,potty trained and all that good stuff. She said I can have him for FREE! 

Here is a pic (his eyes are creep lol)
But isnt he adorable! What color is he????









I dont think I am going to get him..Rinzzo likes all the attention  but I REALLY would like to have him...uhh???


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

He's a liver colored Papillon which isn't allowed by the breed standard. They do pop up from time to time though! Cute boy!


----------



## Rinz

Hmm..neat 
Id love to have him but I just dont think im gunna do it.


----------



## lucidity

OH man... why not??????? You should!! Maybe yappypappymom will take him.. yappy where are youu?? 

I just brought Cadence home from the vet.. he has an eye infection (I posted about this in the health section), and the bill was $400. :O

And he also got weighed... and is 8.5lbs!!! WOWWWWW, my bathroom scale is WAY off. It shows 7.7lbs or so. He just won't stop growing! Lol.


----------



## PappyMom

Aaahh, he'd be mine if we were in VA. I want a liver or a blue Pappy sooo bad. =]

Aww, 8.5 lbs is perfect! And holy cannoli @ $400 vet bill! Yikes.


----------



## PappyMom

PS Rinz, Pappys always do better in 2s LOL..


----------



## Rinz

I want him, I just dont think Rinzzo would appreciate it to much.


_*whispers*_ 
He's a momma's boy


----------



## Rinz

Lucidity- Do you only have one dog? Your pap, right? or no??


----------



## PappyMom

I thought Gizmo wouldn't like having another dog in the house, but he adoreeess his little sister..and he's a big time momma's boy too! 

I love that little liver guys face. He's too dang cute!!


----------



## Rinz

That is the WORST pic out of the whole bunch she sent me  I cant find any BUT that one...ugh...He is so much cuter in the other pics lol

Man..I dont know what to do .....

Is it harder taking care of two than one?


----------



## lucidity

Rinz, yup, I only have one dog! That's Cadence the pap. Lol. You know what, you should bring Rinzzo to go meet this dog and see how they get along  

Guys, remember that person who posted the picture of her dog that the shelter called a "chi mix" but that looked totally like a pap?? His colour was kind of like this dog that Rinz's friend is giving up!

Pappymom, haha, 8.5lbs is huge!! Just 2.5 months ago when Cadence went in for his neuter surgery, he was only 6.6lbs. He put on so much weight.. and I can still feel his ribs sticking out, haha.


----------



## Rinz

Rinzzo is exactly 6 pounds..is that normal?bad?good?


----------



## Laurelin

No guys, paps aren't best in pairs, they're best in FIVES!


----------



## Crantastic

I'm buying my papillon a klee kai.  I told myself when I got her that I only wanted one little dog, not two... yeah, that flew out the window! I think she'll enjoy having someone to play with who can chase her around/let her chase him. I try, but she's way too fast for me! 

You should take your dog to meet this one. I don't think I'd be able to turn down a free papillon!


----------



## Rinz

A Klee Kia is my hubbys DREAM DOG lol I dont really like them all that much..


----------



## luv2byte

Rinz said:


> That is the WORST pic out of the whole bunch she sent me  I cant find any BUT that one...ugh...He is so much cuter in the other pics lol
> 
> Man..I dont know what to do .....
> 
> Is it harder taking care of two than one?


Nah....I would wait a year before thinking of getting another dog. Work on obedience training & bonding before adding another dog to the mix. I am SO HAPPY we waited a year (as recommended by our vet & our trainer) before we got Skyler. Really...wait.


----------



## Crantastic

How could you resist that face!?  

Yeah, Crystal's breeder thinks I'm crazy, too -- she wanted me to take another papillon, one I could show. I think that would be fun, and I LOVE papillons (they're the perfect small dog breed as far as I'm concerned), but I didn't like the idea of bathing and trimming two of them, haha. AKK need about two baths a year.  AKK are also generally aloof with strangers, and I like aloof dogs -- Crystal is actually pretty aloof, more of a one-person/one-family dog. And AKK sound similar to paps in intelligence/trainability and activity level. Just have to make sure Casper's well-socialized so he doesn't end up overly shy.

How are everyone's paps with other animals? I took Crystal into a pet shop the other day, and she was fascinated by the rats, various birds, guinea pigs, bunnies, and a ferret. She just watched them silently. Her favorite thing was this grey parrot that was sitting on top of its cage -- I reached out and scritched its head, and she just STARED. She only barked once... one little bark when she saw some bichon mix puppies. They went NUTS when they saw her!


----------



## Rinz

Yeah I think thats what Im gunna do..I just want to spoil Rinzzo


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## PappyMom

Ahahaha, how cute is this boy?:


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## Rinz

WAY TOO CUTE!!!!


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## PappyMom

Thank you, Rinz!

The Princess is mad at me for not posting her pics, too. She said she's going to do to me, what she's done to this ball. (I guess that means I can't squeak anymore..)



















My pretty girl will be 1 on the 1st! <3


----------



## Jacksons Mom

OMG, I love Papillons! I hope to have one someday. Yorkies have stolen by heart but I only have 1. Every Pap I've ever met is sweet, adorable, and so smart! I just love the breed. If I ever come across a Yorkie/pap mix at a shelter, I don't think I could pass it up, lol.


----------



## PappyMom

Hehehe, Jackson's mom.

This is Lexi, our papillon/yorkie mix friend. =]


----------



## Lil RiRi

Here are a couple new pictures of Chloe! She finally has her own official name! Aylin was cute, but I didn't like the ring of it. I like an eee sound when calling a dog. lol Weird, I know.. Anyways, these are from my webcam... so, nothing amazing. 








These are Riley's clothes from when he was a puppy. lol. I have a picture of him wearing the same sweater underneath. But, he's sleeping and wearing the hood.. So, it's not even worth showing the world.. 
























Anyways, here are some more.. As soon as she heard the countdown from my Mac she would start to pose. lol Riley would continue to smell her as if he still doesn't know who she is and ruin the picture. She is always covered in his spit and I have to bathe her more often. She starting to grow some more hair! I think she is going to be a stunner when she gets older.


----------



## yappypappymom

I had a busy night..looks like my "papsters" had a a busy day w/this thread - LOL 

I had a nice reply to certain posts, but, my silly 'puter froze up on my, and, all my hard work went "down the tube", so, I will opt for a "quick reply"..first off, Chloe is gorgeous!! *please DO NOT post more pics of the gal Riri, as I am just SOOO jealous!!

&, Rinz, I live in Hampton..the EAST-east coast...I have the Bay surrounding me EVERYWHERE I look

&, Lucidity, I ADORE the liver boy, BUT, I am not going to adopt another pap for awhile...(I have this odd thing - when I lost my Max a couple of years ago, I thought he would be my last dog ever...my husband actually came up w/the idea of me getting a pup. I had not even considered another....I took Maxs' loss pretty hard, in fact,..I am STILL not "over" the loss. I don't even miss members of my human family as much as I miss my Max, so, I kinda view adopting as a "coping" situation prior-to...I know its weird, but,..I tend to see far into the future when I gain a pet..I realize this may sound odd, BUT, - it DOES prevent me from being a "hoarder") -LOL...besides, I have my old ferret to deal with too *ACK*, &, I don't know HOW I am going to handle it when he passes on..Leif & him are such good buddies....maybe I will adopt another pap in the future, but, for the here & now,...I will pass. I DO have someone in mind that may be interested in him though Rinz...PM me if the little guy is still up for adoption


----------



## Rinz

My husbands brother lives in Hampton too and he lives right on the water too.

Yeah, Im going to just stick with Rinzzo for awhile too.


----------



## PappyMom

Aww. I wish I lived in Virginia! I'd take him in a heart beat..but I am a sucker!!


----------



## Rinz

I went to the pet store today and got Rinzzo lots of stuff today 
He loves it all!!! 

I got him some healthy teeth and breath biscuits(treats), dental chews, kong stuffers, a few greenies, a bendable NilaBone, and a squeaky alligator!! 


Here are some pics of him with his alligator and NilaBone...































































Hope you like!!!


----------



## Crantastic

Haha, I gave Crystal one of those bendy nylabones once and she had ripped a big chunk off within ten minutes. We stick to the hardest chew toys we can find now!


----------



## Rinz

Well, I will have to see how long his nilabone lasts..if need be ill have to get him the real hard white ones. lol


----------



## BooLette

Root is growing so fast! These pictures are from about two months ago, so I'll try to get some new ones uploaded today for you guys to see. His face is changing so much.


----------



## Rinz

How cute is that! How old was he in the pics?


----------



## lucidity

Rinz said:


> Well, I will have to see how long his nilabone lasts..if need be ill have to get him the real hard white ones. lol


Lol! Cadence has both  He really loves the semi-transparent Nylabone though! I think maybe it tastes better lol. It already has all sorts of dents in it and I just bought it about 2 weeks ago.


----------



## LilOllie

Oliver in his tuxedo:









His rockstar t-shirt:


----------



## BooLette

Rinz said:


> How cute is that! How old was he in the pics?


He was around four months old. Here are some more from today. He'll be six months old on the 25th.


----------



## lucidity

Aww, Ollie looks adorable!!

BooLette, we don't get enough photos of Root around here!


----------



## PappyMom

oh my gosh, Root is SO freakin cute. I want him.. and Oliver is always precious and stylin'!! Rinzzo is lovin that Nylabone!!

Lucidity, my little sister is requesting pictures of Cadence..she says that I need a tri like Cadence next!! lol!!


----------



## LilOllie

Oh my goodness. That is one of the cutest faces I have ever seen! 


BooLette said:


>


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> Lucidity, my little sister is requesting pictures of Cadence..she says that I need a tri like Cadence next!! lol!!


OK pappymom, these photos are for your little sister!!  I dug up some old photos of Cadence in his ugly stage, lol. He's all gangly and furless!

These are at about 3.5 months old:




























5 months (I call this the "foldable ear" photo, haha):









Last week:









Now I wish Cadence was all little and cute again!


----------



## Darla Giselle

Awww these paps are too cute! 

For my future dog, I have to decide between a long haired chi or a pap. I only like the small size of chis(<5 lbs) but paps look better. LOL What is the weight range for paps?

And I loveeee long coats(I own a maltese with a full coat to the floor!) And I love paps in coat with full ear furnishings! I go to dog shows and I'm always in "Aw" of their elegance. Could I get a retired adult champion or breeder pap in full coat from a show breeder?


----------



## lucidity

Lol, chis and paps are so different temperament wise, though!! Paps are really athletic, think border collies but in a smaller package, lol. Mine really tires me out.

Paps usually weigh between 5-10lbs. Most that I've met are around 6-9lbs. Pappymom's girl, Roxy, is only 2.5 or 3lbs.. by far the smallest pap I've ever heard of!

You can search for breeders online; sometimes they do have retired show dogs that they want to place in pet homes.


----------



## Darla Giselle

lucidity said:


> Lol, chis and paps are so different temperament wise, though!! Paps are really athletic, think border collies but in a smaller package, lol. Mine really tires me out.


Oh yes I know!!! I don't care though, I can adapt to any personality.  But I've met many of calmer paps, mostly in people's purses!


----------



## Crantastic

My co-worker's friend has a tiny papillon -- it's fully grown and she claims it's about one and a half pounds. I haven't met it, but I've seen pictures. It does look like a pure papillon, albeit scruffy. It is tiny, but I think it might weigh more than one and a half pounds... I hope so, anyway. Maybe the owner got the kg weight the vet gives you mixed up with pounds (although 1.5kg is still only 3.3 lbs).

This same lady told my co-worker that papillons live for 25 years, so I'm seriously doubting she did her research and got this dog from a good breeder.


----------



## Rinz

papillons!! yay


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah paps and chis are really different temperament wise. They look a little alike but that's about where the similarities end. My crew range from 5.5 lbs to about 8 lbs. Average size should be 5-10 lbs.

Summer was a retired breeder. If you get a pup it takes about 2 years to grow out the ears and coat all the way.

Today I have to groom and bathe five papillons. Lol it will take a while.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Breeders sometimes have smaller puppies that go to pet homes because they are too small to breed. Most retired champions are 6-7 lbs or more up to 10 lbs because the ones that weigh less than that are too short to show. 

We have a long haired Chi and a Pap. Surprisingly our chi is 8 lbs now and not fat at all but our pap is only 6 lbs lol. I think my aunt picked a big pup from the Chi litter. I'll post some pics when I get home.


----------



## BooLette

lucidity said:


> Aww, Ollie looks adorable!!
> 
> BooLette, we don't get enough photos of Root around here!


I know, I've been slacking. Sorry guys! I will try to take more pics today of the little stinker, but I have to warn you he is covered in mud.  I just gave him a bath yesterday too.

*runs off to take pictures*


----------



## BooLette

> oh my gosh, Root is SO freakin cute. I want him.. and Oliver is always precious and stylin'!! Rinzzo is lovin that Nylabone!!
> 
> Lucidity, my little sister is requesting pictures of Cadence..she says that I need a tri like Cadence next!! lol!!





LilOllie said:


> Oh my goodness. That is one of the cutest faces I have ever seen!


Thanks guys! He knows he's cute too. He can get away with a lot more than I'd like to admit. 

Those pictures of Rinzzo with the nylabone inspired me to go out and buy some for my guys yesterday. I don't know why, but I just thought that they would never like them, but they LOVE them. lol

Oh gosh I LOVE Cadence. I told my hubby that I either want a hound tri like Mia or a tri like Cadence. He agrees that they are both gorgeous. Although that won't be for a looong time yet.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

So many new pics since I was gone! Love them! I got some bath sillies again today. LOL I hadn't bathed her in a whole month. Yuck!

Before bath random rolling. She loooves to roll around on the floor of our house. 










Favorite place = under my stairs.










When I said do you want a bath? This happened


















In the tub she huddles to the corner with her head up and whimpers.










Shampooing skinny. Sorry set camera to auto but it often doesn't focus on the right place.










Sad puppy :[









Post bath cleanness! 









Nia says I'm going to kill you! *evil grin*


----------



## Rinz

hahaha  so POed


----------



## Rinz

So here are the other pics of that papillon I was/kinda am considering getting 
(excuse the glowing eyes, I dont knwo how to fix that?)


----------



## PappyMom

Darla Giselle said:


> Awww these paps are too cute!
> 
> For my future dog, I have to decide between a long haired chi or a pap. I only like the small size of chis(<5 lbs) but paps look better. LOL What is the weight range for paps?
> 
> And I loveeee long coats(I own a maltese with a full coat to the floor!) And I love paps in coat with full ear furnishings! I go to dog shows and I'm always in "Aw" of their elegance. Could I get a retired adult champion or breeder pap in full coat from a show breeder?


To put it simply, lol, Roxy is 2 pounds, and Gizmo is 12-13 lbs. lol..they have a really wide weight range.. The Pap coat will be nothing compared to the amount of work the maltese coat is. I rarely have to even brush my 2..lol.. The only mats I ever worry about are in the ears..


----------



## PappyMom

Lucidity, my sister is in total awe of Cadence...she says that he is perfect and now she REALLY wants a Pap of her own..lol

And Rinzzo..oh my gosh, I have no self control, he would've been sleeping in my bed an hour after she asked me to take him. LOL, his ears are back in every pic! My 2 do that when they're getting ready to lickfest your face..lol!


----------



## Rinz

Since LilOllie felt the need to bring stuff up that is needless like she always does, I will clarify what she is talking about....


I did get Rinzzo for free, the lady said she would give him to me but I felt bad for just taking him and not giving anything in return, especially since she gave me his crate and things too and since she had planned to sell him, but since I was a "friend" she said I could just have him. I donated $30 to her, just because I wanted to be nice. So now you get it?
and as for the other papillon, I know someone who has him and she is giving him away, I want him but if you read my other posts I said I was just going to have Rinzzo so I can spoil him and not have to deal with another dog. As most of you know because you actually read my posts. I WAS thinking about it though, not anymore. But my grandparents think they want him so I might get him for them.

Does that explain everything?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I found some pictures of Nia as a pup! Her breeder sent me these. I have so few Nia puppy pics since I didn't get her until like 5.5 months old.


----------



## LilOllie

Aww! Nia was such a cute baby.


----------



## lucidity

BooLette said:


> Oh gosh I LOVE Cadence. I told my hubby that I either want a hound tri like Mia or a tri like Cadence. He agrees that they are both gorgeous. Although that won't be for a looong time yet.


Aww, thanks!! Yes you should get another pap  Like Laurelin always says... they're awesome in multiples! Haha.



PappyMom said:


> Lucidity, my sister is in total awe of Cadence...she says that he is perfect and now she REALLY wants a Pap of her own..lol


Awww.. how old is your sister again?? You should get her a pap for her birthday  It's too bad my little brother hates dogs.  He's 10, haha. He keeps saying, eww, no don't bring Cadence home, he'll pee on my bed! LOL.

Btw, Michi.. love the photos of Nia! She doesn't look much different, actually. She seems to dislike being photographed! Her eyes are always closed, haha.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> Btw, Michi.. love the photos of Nia! She doesn't look much different, actually. She seems to dislike being photographed! Her eyes are always closed, haha.


She used to look really different when she was even younger.



















And the earliest picture I have of her. Tiny pic though.










Edit: Her eyes are always closed because she can't stand the flash at all. Or bright sunlight lol.


----------



## Rinz

She had him on craigslist for sale. 

And then decided to give him to me..

whatever.

Why does it matter????!!!!


really, its none of your business. My dog.


----------



## LilOllie

If you aren't going to up and get rid of your dog again like you did the last one it doesn't matter to me. You are right it is none of my business, and I deleted my other posts because this is a place for Papillon pictures not bickering. I realize I shouldn't have brought it up in this thread.


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Awww.. how old is your sister again?? You should get her a pap for her birthday  It's too bad my little brother hates dogs.  He's 10, haha. He keeps saying, eww, no don't bring Cadence home, he'll pee on my bed! LOL.
> Btw, Michi.. love the photos of Nia! She doesn't look much different, actually. She seems to dislike being photographed! Her eyes are always closed, haha.


My sister will be 9 in June, lol. I would've gotten her a pap, but unfortunately, it seems as though she's become allergic to the dogs, but only from actual contact with the dogs..which is why I have Lily (who was an Xmas present for her 2 christmases ago). She has Junior Rheumatoid Arthritis, which has weakened her immune system pretty drastically, since she was much younger. And when she comes in contact with the dogs (we've done lots of experimenting) she breaks out with warts on her body. It's the weirdest thing I've seen or heard of. Since Lily is much younger and more needy then my mother's other pug, we've decided to keep her here. My father does all the care for my mother's other pug Annie, who is now almost 10 years old..and has slowed down with age. My sister isn't allowed to touch her. All of this really broke her heart, so we're REALLY searching for some kind of 'cure' or something. She really loved her dog..my mom was going to give her to my aunt who lives in PA as a therapeutic pet for my cousin who has MS.. but my sister was bawling her eyes out, so we offered to take her, so she could still see her.


----------



## LilOllie

PappyMom said:


> I would've gotten her a pap, but unfortunately, it seems as though she's become allergic to the dogs, but only from actual contact with the dogs.
> 
> My sister isn't allowed to touch her. All of this really broke her heart, so we're REALLY searching for some kind of 'cure' or something.


Aww I would be so heartbroken if I was allergic to my babies. I wonder if the American Hairless Terrier or Chinese Crested would be an option? Although they probably still produce dander. I just thought of them because the American Hairless has no hair, and the Chinese Crested doesn't have much... except for the powder puffs.


----------



## PappyMom

I thought of them too, but the doctor said she doesn't know if it is the skin or the fur that is causing it. I don't know of anyone that has a hairless dog that she could test-interact with..lol..I only know of our member on here! with Icesis..lol..she is dog-crazy, I feel so bad for my little girl..


----------



## LilOllie

Yea unfortunately neither one of those dog breeds are that common. I hope someone can figure something out though. 

Olivers breeder got a few updated photos of Olivers littermate Munchkin. Heres a couple pics of him at 10 months old:


----------



## PappyMom

Wow, he's gorgeous!! But kind of in that obvious Papillon gorgeousness..I love Oliver's weak-eared gorgeousness more! I love when they have something about them that makes them just a little different then a pack of perfect Paps! Hence my white faced boy, and my tiny girl with her half and half muzzle.


----------



## LilOllie

Yea I showed my mom the pictures and she told me "you chose the wrong dog." I think she was at least half-joking, but I told her I LOVE Oliver, and he may not meet breed standards but he's perfect to me. Besides Oliver has the best personality I've seen in any dog. Oliver is what got me hooked on Paps and I now know I will never be able to live without one in my home  
Papillons are definitely my heart breed, but I don't let Jayda know that.


----------



## PappyMom

They're my heart breed too, but I think Lily thinks she's a Pappy, so we don't tell her any different! LOL.. Gotta love them!

I like Oliver better, too.. I would've chosen him first.


----------



## Independent George

You people are killing me. I always start the morning telling myself I'm not going to check the Papillon thread. Ten minutes later, I start Googling for Pap breeders in my area.


----------



## Rinz

pretty dog pics LilOllie, Oliver is more handsome though.


----------



## tw1n

Independent George said:


> You people are killing me. I always start the morning telling myself I'm not going to check the Papillon thread. Ten minutes later, I start Googling for Pap breeders in my area.


Just wait... It started like that... then I sent emails toa few breeders... now every other day I get emailed pictures of newborn papillons.


----------



## Rinz

*I dropped Rinzzo off to be neutered at 7:30am this morning.
I got a call during the surgery.....come to find out...
he needed more than just that one surgery 

poor little guy...*

_will have pictures of Rinzzo and explain what the second surgery was after 4pm today, when I pick him up._


----------



## tw1n

Rinz said:


> *I dropped Rinzzo off to be neutered at 7:30am this morning.
> I got a call during the surgery.....come to find out...
> he needed more than just that one surgery
> 
> poor little guy...*
> 
> _will have pictures of Rinzzo and explain what the second surgery was after 4pm today, when I pick him up._


What's the second surgery for? I can't imagine it's normal to just go around operating on stuff unless they found something while they were in there.... but... isn't that a localized surgery?


----------



## LilOllie

Uh oh I hope Rinzzo is going to be okay. Did they say what was wrong or what they found?


----------



## Rinz

tw1n said:


> isn't that a localized surgery?


What do you mean?????

And I am not going to explain what it is until he gets home 
im going to post just a few pics so you can see..

But I will say that they said the surgery that I didn't know had to be done was something that they HAD to do surgery one. No if ands or butts. When they called, I told them that it was fine to do the operation so he'd be ok.
He is fine now, they called after the surgery and the neuter and told me he was got threw it fine and we would pick him up after 4.


----------



## PappyMom

Hmm! I am curious now!! Sounds like it was nothing too serious, though.. 

Do we get to play guess the surgery!?


----------



## Rinz

no, not really. If left untreated though, it could have been life threatening 

And sure, if you guys feel like guessing, go ahead


----------



## tw1n

Rinz said:


> no, not really. If left untreated though, it could have been life threatening
> 
> And sure, if you guys feel like guessing, go ahead


It's apparently in his private area... 'cause I can't imaginet hey go around looken at major organs while doing a neuter...


----------



## LilOllie

hmmm... may I ask why bring it up if you aren't going to tell us what was wrong?
I am glad to hear he is okay though.


----------



## PappyMom

tw1n said:


> It's apparently in his private area... 'cause I can't imaginet hey go around looken at major organs while doing a neuter...


They may have examined him before the neuter? Hmm.. maybe some kind of growth? or an in-grown hair? actually, just kidding on the in-grown hair, that's probably not the life threatening...and usually you can pop them without surgery..lol..

idk! a hernia?

or did only one his little manly parts descend?


----------



## Rinz

Well, I was going to just wait until I could get some pics of the surgery on here, but since everyone wants to know....

When I got him he had a small hernia I had found on his tummy.
I called the lady back and asked her about it and she told me she had it check out when he was a puppy and that it should be fine. Well, It was small..about the size of a pea. But within the last few days I noticed it got a bit larger, so I called her back. She told me the vet she took him to said that it was fine and it wouldn't hurt him. So I decided I would just keep an eye on it cause I didn't know anything about hernias in dogs, and she said the vet said it was fine. Plus it didnt seam to bother him at all, he didn't act like anything was wrong.
Well, during Rinzzo's neuter they had found it and examined it and it was actually BAD..it had broke threw all the lining of his stomach and was actually leaking out the wall of the stomach! They called me during surgery and told me about it and said that it was a very bad case, that the stomach had actually ripped open even more because of it and that's why It seamed a bit larger to me. They said within a few days it would have been massive and without treatment it would not have been good...So I told them to do the surgery. So, they explained to me what they were going to do. They said they would have to open him up, push his stuff back into his stomach then stitch up the layers from the inside out so that it wouldn't happen again.

I was so happy they noticed it. I was so stupid for not actually being that concerned! I should have just got it checked out, but the lady I got him form loved him a lot and I thought that if it was actually something to be worried about, she would have got it fixed, or at least told me. I don't know, but now he is all better and no worries  I am so happy my baby is alright.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh geez! I can't believe he was acting normal with so much going on in his poor belly! So glad he's ok though! Recover quickly Rinzzo!


----------



## PappyMom

Glad to hear he's alright and that they caught it in time! Poor little Rinzzo!! Don't you wish he could've been like, hey mooomm, got a stomach issue going on here!!! ?? lol


----------



## Rinz

Yeah! I would have had him to the vet ASAP. I just dot get how he acted happy and perky with his poor little tummy being ripped open inside


----------



## Laurelin

This was in my other thread but I'll post it here. Sad papillons. 










They are definitely my heart breed too.

Post bath zooms:


----------



## PappyMom

I love getting to see my Nardieboy. <3 <3 And I loooveee my Rose too..she's never in the zoomie pics. I think her and Roxy would get along perfectly!!


----------



## Laurelin

PappyMom said:


> I love getting to see my Nardieboy. <3 <3 And I loooveee my Rose too..she's never in the zoomie pics. I think her and Roxy would get along perfectly!!


Rose is a princess.  She has no need for the silly games the others play.


----------



## PappyMom

Laurelin said:


> Rose is a princess.  She has no need for the silly games the others play.


That's how Roxy is! lol! She's either in your lap or off sniffing the grass where everyone else isn't around! She'll play with Gizmo for a little inside, but that's mostly when he steals her tennis ball..then she has to teach him a lesson. I think Rose and Roxy were meant for eachother. Lol, Gizmo's perfect match from your crew has to be Mia..lol..they both have sooo much character.


----------



## LazyGRanch713

OK, the sad papillons made me LOL so hard...SO CUTE!!!
Here's our own 3 sad papillons...this was taken before Tag arrived. I call it "Rub-A-Dub Dub, 3 men in a tub"...


----------



## Rinz

Off to pick up Rinzzo, be back soon


----------



## Jacksons Mom

PappyMom said:


> Hehehe, Jackson's mom.
> 
> This is Lexi, our papillon/yorkie mix friend. =]



Wow she's adorable!


----------



## LilOllie

Five papillons in one tub. It doesn't get much cuter than that!


----------



## lucidity

LazyGRanch713 said:


> OK, the sad papillons made me LOL so hard...SO CUTE!!!
> Here's our own 3 sad papillons...this was taken before Tag arrived. I call it "Rub-A-Dub Dub, 3 men in a tub"...


Now all you need to do is get another two paps, and you'll be on par with Laurelin!! Heeheee! 

Pappymom, aww your poor sister.  I hope she gets well soon. Must suck to not be able to be with her dog!

BTW, everyone, are your paps shedding like crazy right now?!! I've been seeing fur everywhere lately! Ugh. I even see it in my fooood. heeeellllppp.


----------



## LilOllie

lucidity said:


> BTW, everyone, are your paps shedding like crazy right now?!! I've been seeing fur everywhere lately! Ugh. I even see it in my fooood. heeeellllppp.


Oliver is! Last week I made brownies and when I was eating a piece of one I found a hair in it... sure enough it was a white papillon hair. Plus every time he leaves my lap there is clumps of hair covering my clothing.


----------



## LazyGRanch713

lucidity said:


> Now all you need to do is get another two paps, and you'll be on par with Laurelin!! Heeheee!
> 
> Pappymom, aww your poor sister.  I hope she gets well soon. Must suck to not be able to be with her dog!
> 
> BTW, everyone, are your paps shedding like crazy right now?!! I've been seeing fur everywhere lately! Ugh. I even see it in my fooood. heeeellllppp.


I'm thinking maybe I should get two others. That would put my count up to 6. Laurelin wouldn't like that, so she'd have to get two more, which would put her count up to 7. Hmm..I might have to add one more to get to 8... <G>
And Dude isn't shedding any, but Tag is starting to drop some hair. I don't know if it's leftover puppy coat or what, but it's driving me mad! I miss the baby stages..sigh..


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> BTW, everyone, are your paps shedding like crazy right now?!! I've been seeing fur everywhere lately! Ugh. I even see it in my fooood. heeeellllppp.


Nia hasn't started yet. But right before winter she shed absolutely everywhere for like a month. There was white fur all over our floor, carpet, clothes, etc.

Wonder how much more there is with 5 paps!


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Wonder how much more there is with 5 paps!


I breathe papillon hair-Literally.


----------



## lucidity

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I'm thinking maybe I should get two others. That would put my count up to 6. Laurelin wouldn't like that, so she'd have to get two more, which would put her count up to 7. Hmm..I might have to add one more to get to 8... <G>
> And Dude isn't shedding any, but Tag is starting to drop some hair. I don't know if it's leftover puppy coat or what, but it's driving me mad! I miss the baby stages..sigh..


LOL!! I'd like to see the "I've got more paps than you!" showdown hahaha. LazyGranch we need more photos of your paps! We seldom get to see them 

And oh nooes.. when do they stop shedding usually?? Cadence was not shedding at ALL the entire time from November till Feb. Now I even see lots of hair in his drinking bowl. And I brush him everyday too.


----------



## Rinz

If anyone cares to see, here is Rinzzo's underside after his hernia surgery and being neutered. I have more pics of him if you guys wanna see, jsut let me know.


----------



## luv2byte

Keep a watch so he doesn't chew on his stitches or lick too much - he probably will try to do that since the razor burn most likely stings a bit.


----------



## lucidity

Ouchhh that looks like it HURTS!! The incisions for the neuter part look HUGE!! Cadence's were like only maybe 0.5cm long... and no stitches, the doctor used glue.

Poor Rinzzo! Remember to put the e-collar on and give him lots of hugs from me and Cadence


----------



## PappyMom

Awww my poor little Rinzzo!!! Roxy sends puppy kisses to him!!


----------



## Rinz

Der-derrr









I.....hate......you...









Nomnomnom


----------



## PappyMom

Awww, I love his red ribbon around his cone, too cute!! Best wishes on a speedy recovery little man!! So glad he's okay!


----------



## Rinz

orange ribbon?


----------



## PappyMom

Oh, I see the orange, lol, my laptop screen was tilted oddly and made it look red...regardless, too cute! When Giz had his cone, they just tied it with ace bandage..in this huge bow that was bigger than his head..lol


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Poor Rinzzo! When Nia got spayed she whimpered the whole first night. She wouldn't eat or pee either but Rinz looks pretty happy still. What a trooper!


----------



## BooLette

OUCH! Poor Rinzzo! Root (like Cadence) had internal stitches that dissolved and glue on the outside. He didn't look bad at all. Be sure to give him lots of kisses from us!


----------



## luv2byte

Did they show you how to simply untie it and slide it off and on his head? We only left skyler's on him when we were not in 100% view of him & used it as a chance to enforce his "leave it" command  Psycho puppy ended up liking his cone. We put it on him only at night time or when he was left alone.


----------



## Terrie

He looks like a phalene in the one where he's eating!!

Go go rinzzo!


----------



## yappypappymom

My gosh you guys!! This papillon thread is sooo FAST moving these days, I can't keep up! LOL..all of the new pics are what I would like to call "pap candy" - LOL I think that we should implement a new rule here actually. NO NEW BABY PICS!!! (it silently kills us all to view the cuteness)!!

Lucidity - no notice of any shed here - YET...I am sure soon enough though, I will be in the same boat as you 

Rinzzo..man, he's got a few tough days laid out for him, but, he DOES look like he is going to pull through w/a smile on his face. He's looking quite well in spite of his belly. Good luck little man!!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> And oh nooes.. when do they stop shedding usually?? Cadence was not shedding at ALL the entire time from November till Feb. Now I even see lots of hair in his drinking bowl. And I brush him everyday too.


Nia used to not shed at all before. Then came october, she shed until about late december with the worst month being november. I literally had to sweep the floors everyday, vacuum every 3 days and still had hair everywhere.

So I'm guessing a good 2 months of shedding especially for the summer I suspect it's going to be more than a winter shed. 

Currently she's not shedding very much, a few hairs here and there but I only need to sweep the floor every week or so and I only brush Nia twice a week-ish.


----------



## BooLette

More Root!
Isn't he just adorable?









His first try of his size tennis balls. He loved it!









It never ceases to amaze me how cat-like he is when he plays









Belly rubs make him sleepy









I LOVE this color harness on him!









He went nuts for this clear nylabones that you guys inspired me to buy


















Done, for now!


----------



## Independent George

I love the fact that we're approaching 600 replies in this thread. Papillons for everybody!


----------



## PappyMom

Lucidity, I haven't noticed any excessive shedding, yet, but when I groom the pups, I tend to blow-dry against the way the coat grows, to blow out any dead hairs. When I pick Giz up, he leaves me covered in hairs but he always has. I never get anything from Roxy.

YappyPappyMom, I love the baby pics!! LOL, they are helping me to resist temptation of searching for another Pap..

And aaahhh, Boolette, I love Root and all his spots on his back!! He's so cuteeee.


----------



## BooLette

> And aaahhh, Boolette, I love Root and all his spots on his back!! He's so cuteeee.



Thanks! I was looking at some of his baby pics, and his face is really changing! A lot of the black is gone from his face, but those spots on his back stay the same. I love how paps change as they get older. 

BTW I love Gizmo and Roxy. I have never seen another pap with an all white face like Giz. He's gorgeous. (or should I say handsome?lol)


----------



## LilOllie

Aww more Root pictures! Paps just love belly rubs, and you are right about them being cat-like. haha. I just love how his face is all color without the white line going down the center. Okay I'll stop going on and on but seriously he is just SOOOOOOOO cute!


----------



## PappyMom

LilOllie! I totally agree about his face..it is SO cute, but he has a tiny little line of white on his foreheaddd!! awww.. -melts-


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Yay! More pics! Root is looking handsome!


----------



## Rinz

where did the name Root come from if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## LilOllie

Jayda & Oliver begging to get on the bed with me.









Oliver getting a bath. He looks really funny.









By the look on his face, one would think that I beat him or something... haha.









After His Bath:


----------



## PappyMom

Aww, I loveeee Oliver.. He has the sweetest face and eyes..and I totally love the last pic with the lazy tongue! My 2 do the tongue thing all the time..

I just had the best laugh watching Giz and Roxy. Roxy just humped Gizmo, and he let her!! I've never seen him allow any other dog to "dominate" him..ever! What's up with that? lol!


----------



## LilOllie

That's too funny that your paps do the tongue thing as well. Oliver is constantly sticking his out like that. 

Poor Gizmo! I can't believe he let himself get "owned" by a little girl like Roxy. haha.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Don't you love how Paps poof up to big balls of fur when they get wet and then almost dried? It's hilarious!


----------



## BooLette

Rinz said:


> where did the name Root come from if you don't mind me asking?


I wanted an earthy name and my husband suggested 'Root'. It fit him really well once he came home, and I'm glad that my hubby thought of it. We think that our next pap will be named 'Anthem'. 'Ant' for short.

OH MY Ollie is SO cute! I love the after bath pics when he's all fluffy! Isn't that just the best!?

LOL I can't believe Gizmo is letting little old Roxy dominate him. That's too funny.


----------



## Laurelin

Independent George said:


> I love the fact that we're approaching 600 replies in this thread. Papillons for everybody!


Exactly! 

As far as the shedding, paps are single coated so they should shed pretty much continuously. They don't blow coat like shelties do twice a year. Their shedding is continuous but much much milder than a double coated breed. I see pap hairs around a lot here but no tumbleweeds like I did when I had a houseful of shelties.


----------



## Darla Giselle

Laurelin said:


> As far as the shedding, paps are single coated so they should shed pretty much continuously. They don't blow coat like shelties do twice a year. Their shedding is continuous but much much milder than a double coated breed. I see pap hairs around a lot here but no tumbleweeds like I did when I had a houseful of shelties.


Single coated? Like a malt or a yorkie? I did not know that!


----------



## Laurelin

Darla Giselle said:


> Single coated? Like a malt or a yorkie? I did not know that!


Not exactly like a maltese or yorkie, but they also have no undercoat. Maltese and yorkies are 'hair' breeds. So they are low allergen and low shedding and the hair grows continuously. Papillons have 'fur' so the hair does shed some. It also doesn't grow continuously like a yorkie or maltese. There is really no trimming on a papillon coat minus the feet. It takes about 2-4 years to grow a full coat. Unlike shelties, poms, etc they have no undercoat so they never blow undercoat, which is nice.

I'm having a hard time thinking of other breeds with a similar coat! I think cavs have a single fur coat too.


----------



## lucidity

Papillon coats remind me of Cavalier coats, actually. Are they similar? My neighbour's Cav's coat is pretty much the same as Cadence's, just a bit wavier. She's also almost the same age as him, and it's interesting to compare their coat growth, lol.


----------



## Darla Giselle

Laurelin said:


> Not exactly like a maltese or yorkie, but they also have no undercoat. Maltese and yorkies are 'hair' breeds. So they are low allergen and low shedding and the hair grows continuously. Papillons have 'fur' so the hair does shed some. It also doesn't grow continuously like a yorkie or maltese. There is really no trimming on a papillon coat minus the feet. It takes about 2-4 years to grow a full coat. Unlike shelties, poms, etc they have no undercoat so they never blow undercoat, which is nice.
> 
> I'm having a hard time thinking of other breeds with a similar coat! I think cavs have a single fur coat too.


Cavs coats, now that I think about it, are similar to what you're describing I think. Veryy GOOD to know. LOL 

One other question, if it takes 2-4 yrs to grow a coat out, I see a lot of show paps in full coat. Are they 2-4 yrs when they stop showing, or do the breeders know how to grow the coat faster? I know with malt breeders they take special care not to break one strand of hair in a malts show career and they will be in full coat in less than a year and e finished by 18 months old!


----------



## Laurelin

Darla Giselle said:


> Cavs coats, now that I think about it, are similar to what you're describing I think. Veryy GOOD to know. LOL
> 
> One other question, if it takes 2-4 yrs to grow a coat out, I see a lot of show paps in full coat. Are they 2-4 yrs when they stop showing, or do the breeders know how to grow the coat faster? I know with malt breeders they take special care not to break one strand of hair in a malts show career and they will be in full coat in less than a year and e finished by 18 months old!


Most people either show paps as puppies or as older adults (ie, 2 and up). The stage between is a lot of times awkward. The big specials dogs are usually older. Kirby for example was 8 years old when he won BIS at Westminster. They're an older showing breed. We didn't start showing Beau until he was 2.


----------



## Crantastic

Briana, I don't know if you're seriously considering a papillon or just pondering, but I'd advise against one for you. Even my pap, who is low-energy compared to a lot of them, hates to be carried around -- she loves to walk and can do so for six hours straight. It sounds like your maltese spends a lot of time getting carried around and doesn't really go outside a lot, or for many walks. A papillon would be pretty miserable with that sort of lifestyle. Most of them are like little border collies, really. You also don't seem to want to wait two years for the full coat to grow and therefore want a retired show/breeder dog, but you're unlikely to find one of the tiny ones like that (responsible breeders don't keep the tiny ones because they're too small to breed). If I were you, I'd go with the smaller, lazier chihuahua. I find the long-haired ones pretty cute.


----------



## Darla Giselle

Crantastic said:


> Briana, I don't know if you're seriously considering a papillon or just pondering, but I'd advise against one for you. Even my pap, who is low-energy compared to a lot of them, hates to be carried around -- she loves to walk and can do so for six hours straight. It sounds like your maltese spends a lot of time getting carried around and doesn't really go outside a lot, or for many walks. A papillon would be pretty miserable with that sort of lifestyle. Most of them are like little border collies, really. You also don't seem to want to wait two years for the full coat to grow and therefore want a retired show/breeder dog, but you're unlikely to find one of the tiny ones like that (responsible breeders don't keep the tiny ones because they're too small to breed). If I were you, I'd go with the smaller, lazier chihuahua. I find the long-haired ones pretty cute.


You know nothing about me or your plans. I mean in the far future... My next dog(in the next 3 years) will be from a great breeder I've spoken with from time to time all the way from Germany. If I get a pap, it will be my third dog. LOL I'm just saying how I've seen both sides, I also know many, MANY maltese that must be walked and are miserable and don't like to be in the house, but the malt I have, aren't like them. 
I've met many great pap breeders at shows(I even have pictures of the prettiest paps I've ever seen, but they're not on this computer) and they were SO nice and informative. I always see these cute little things being carried around and enjoy it. Did you watch It's Me or The Dog last Saturday, with the paps? Both of those paps were SO attached to their "mommy" and didn't care about anybody else but her, and they never left her lap! LOL Just like my maltese. I have read many, MANY times on this forum in my last month of being here, how cuddly they were. The only reason why my Gigi doesn't walk more is because she literally MOPS up everything. Sticks, leaves, dust, mud, grass, EVERYTHING. And she is not a fan of getting baths, blow dry, groomed as soon as we come back in from walks. I don't know if you've ever groomed a long, haired white dog like this before but this all will take about an hour. I already come home from school after cheerleading its about 6:00pm four days a week, and on top of that, I have AP and honors classes to keep up with. My Gigi HATES the cold weather(<50 degrees) she runs when she sees the leash, and once I've carried her outside, she tries to run home. She does NOT like the cold, even with she's bundled up in a parka. LOL But that's just her, she's a lady.  
And most chi's are NOT lazy. Chihuahuas in general are VERY high strung, or at least the ones I have met. Oh, my, the stories I have from baby sitting chihuahuas, you would never believe!  LOL Size isn't that big deal to me, I just need a small size(under 7 pounds) because I will be traveling a lot. (And show dogs are very used to traveling so that's another plus) And weight is still a weird thing o go by as I've met 2.5 pounds and even 6 pounds that have body size as my 4 pounders so they looked the same size. I honestly can barely tell the difference between a 7 pound dog or a 4 pound one, both VERY small dogs, they just feel different. I also prefer older dogs oppossed to puppies, because I'm just not a puppy person. They're simply adorable, but that's it. I enjoy admiring them through pictures. LOL I got my baby at 6 months old. I'm the same with little human babies, I LOVE them, as long as they go home with their parents. LOL
Heck, you shouldn't worry about the pap I may get in the futre, when I have children I will be getting a 100+ pound Alaskan Malamute, my favorite dog over 20 pounds! (no small dogs and kids, no, no, no)

ETA: And yes, my dog get's paid to dress up for people.


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## Crantastic

You're right, I don't know you; I've just gone by comments you've posted on the forums about how you're not an outside kind of girl and you like to carry your dog around and dress it up -- things none of the 10 papillons I personally know and interact with regularly would enjoy. You sound like you've done your research, though, so hopefully if you do end up with a papillon someday, one of the good breeders you've talked to will match you up with a pap that likes being carried around... and not with one like my Crystal or Laurelin's Mia. 

(And I know all chis aren't lazy, but the average chihuahua does not require as much exercise as the average papillon.)


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## Michiyo-Fir

Darla Giselle said:


> Chihuahuas in general are VERY high strung, or at least the ones I have met. Oh, my, the stories I have from baby sitting chihuahuas, you would never believe!  LOL Size isn't that big deal to me, I just need a small size(under 7 pounds) because I will be traveling a lot.


Papillons are very often pretty high strung dogs as well. Didn't I post the destruction of Nia a couple times already? That was after a couple hrs of exercise. I'll post it again. 



















We have a long haired Chi as well and he hasn't been nearly as destructive.

Nia doesn't mind being held as long as she's been exercised. She doesn't like our laps that much but she doesn't mind lying beside us. 

Paps can be carried around but not all the time and they DEFINITELY ALWAYS need tons of exercise. I don't know a single Pap that needs almost no exercise. And they will get dirty as well, dirt mud, leaves. If you look at Laurelin's pictures they're always muddy lol. They dry and brush off pretty well but they won't be 100% clean and smelling great all the time. If you want that, then you need to bathe them after every play session.


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## Crantastic

Three of the papillons I know (they belong to the same family) don't get a lot of exercise -- just short walks -- and they are definitely barkier than all the other, better-exercised paps I know. They are sweet little dogs and I love them; they're just loud! Crystal is pretty quiet and well-behaved, but she walks for at least an hour every day and usually plays ball in the house, too (and soon she will have Casper the klee kai to play chase with as well). If she misses a couple of days in a row of exercise, she seems vaguely depressed and will often get hyper and tear around like a nutcase to get out that pent-up energy (which is cute, but not a good thing, mental-health-wise). If I didn't crate her while I was away, she would most definitely chew inappropriate things.

And yes, she gets dirty very easily, especially in the red mud we have here (PEI's soil is very iron-rich and red, and it stains dog fur if I don't wash hers right away). It does take quite a while to bathe her (with shampoo and conditioner) and blow-dry and brush her.


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## lucidity

Lol, Cadence is exactly the same. He absolutely NEEDS to go to daycare at least a couple of times a week to burn off energy playing with the other dogs for 8 hours... especially in winter when he doesn't really get to play with my neighbour's dogs. That's with 4 daily walks (more than 1 hour total), and play sessions at home and at the playground.

If he doesn't get to daycare at least twice a week, he just becomes a monster to deal with. Becomes super fussy with food, destroys stuff, and is generally REALLY ANNOYING to be around. When he's nice and tired out, he's such a good doggy! He leaves wires and cables alone, doesn't try to steal rubbish from the garbage, and doesn't eat the stuffings out of his toys. Sheesh.

I'm still hoping that he'll mellow out soon.......


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## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> Lol, Cadence is exactly the same. He absolutely NEEDS to go to daycare at least a couple of times a week to burn off energy playing with the other dogs for 8 hours... especially in winter when he doesn't really get to play with my neighbour's dogs. That's with 4 daily walks (more than 1 hour total), and play sessions at home and at the playground.
> 
> If he doesn't get to daycare at least twice a week, he just becomes a monster to deal with. Becomes super fussy with food, destroys stuff, and is generally REALLY ANNOYING to be around. When he's nice and tired out, he's such a good doggy! He leaves wires and cables alone, doesn't try to steal rubbish from the garbage, and doesn't eat the stuffings out of his toys. Sheesh.
> 
> I'm still hoping that he'll mellow out soon.......


LOL same with Nia. She needs a good 2-3 hrs to run around outside with other dogs. Full on chasing and running. Otherwise I have to take a ball out with one of those ball throwers and throw it around for an hr or so. She also gets about 2-4 hrs of walking a day. Usually 1-2 hrs in the morning and 1 hr at night. Otherwise she's either depressed, hyper or won't eat lol.

Edit: I mean if you're willing to exercise a lot then I don't really see a problem. Mine personally don't like to be dressed up even in freezing cold winter, the moment I put a shirt on her she won't move. She stood in one place for 2 hrs once and refused to walk or moved because I put a shirt on her. 

I've had some experience with Malteses. My friend has one that often lives with us because she travels for 2-3 months at a time and she's not nearly as energetic as a Pap. She did get about an hr of walking a day though. Paps are not as cute and small as they look, they like to do doggy things like running in mud, rolling in bird poop, chasing squirrels and birds then they're awesome dogs! I love watching Nia chase birds, it's so amusing because she runs so fast and she thinks she can fly!

Man the more I talk about Paps the more I LOVE their personality! Gosh I want another one  Laur, send me Nard or Mia for a little while! Or both!!


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## yappypappymom

Whoot!! Over 600 was finally met!! LOL

Leif HATES to be "carried" around. don't get me wrong, he is a total snug-bug, BUT, its kinda up to him when he chooses to snuggle(which, is ALOT) ...and, NO WAY is he going into a purse or a bag!! He likes to prance his little frisky bottom 'round town the PROPER way......(ok, ok,...so, MAYBE..just SOMETIMES he HAPPENS to be wearing a cute hoodie or something), but, the point that I am trying to make is - is that he MUCH prefers being on the ground of his own accord, rather than being forced into a hold like my hubby does to him...?duh? - he's backing AWAY from you for a REASON!! -Leif KNOWS DH is GOING to pick him up, so, Leif is always on "alert", & backs up from him during those times..


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## lucidity

Lol, Michi, what I did to Cadence was...... I made him wear the clothes to sleep HAHAHA. He couldn't really figure out how to get out of them (he'd get one leg out but not the other etc.), so he had to sleep in his clothes  I know, I'm evil... but I needed him to get used to his raincoat but he REFUSED to move AN INCH when I put in on him!! So I got mad and made him wear it to sleep. Hehehehe, now it doesn't bother him anymore.

Yappy, oh man, yeah, tell me about it. Cadence would try to run away from me if I try to pick him up haha. He's a bit better about it now, because I don't give him a choice, but he'd much rather run around and walk by himself. I bought a carrier bag when I first got him.... and yeah, such a waste of money. He's only been in it once, that was it. He barked non stop for an hour when I put him in--it drove me crazy!!! His bark is so high pitched! Ugh. Now he's outgrown it, but when he sees me holding the bag.... he still runs away. Lol.


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## yappypappymom

*hangs head in shame*..I too went out & bought Leif a bag...used it ONCE, &, he puked all inside of it (BRAND NEW)...I still have it, its a pretty nice one, but, at the time I bought it, I had the fantasies of how I would be able to take him EVERYWHERE w/him in it...when reality set in, I thought that I must have been the BIGGEST dummy on the planet!! Dogs don't NEED "bags"!! If you can't go someplace that dogs arent allowed, well then, they should stay at home just as if they were BIG dogs! - Lesson learned from my end - LOL


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## lucidity

Hahaha, oh man, me too. I thought, hey, cool! I can carry him around like they do in Hollywood! Wrong. Those darn bags are SO EXPENSIVE too! Ya think I can sell mine on Craigslist? Lol, I can't even use it as a portable crate or something because it's so small. 

Maybe I'll mail it to Pappymom so that Roxy can use it, haha... but then again, I think I remember Roxy hated being carried around in a purse as well...


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## Michiyo-Fir

Nia has come to terms with being picked up since my 9 year old cousin lugged around for a couple of months lol! She pretty much enjoys being carried now as long as you tell her you're going to pick her up. She walks to a position that is easy for you to pick up and waits there.

But if we're outside and she see anything that moves like bugs, squirrels, dogs, people, etc. she squirms to get down. She doesn't mind being held at home or in stores though.


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## yappypappymom

Michiyo-Fir said:


> She pretty much enjoys being carried now as long as you tell her you're going to pick her up. She walks to a position that is easy for you to pick up and waits there.


You hit the "nail on the head" with this statement!! As long as Leif KNOWS that your intention IS to "pick him up", he will visually relax waiting for the "pick-up"...as long as he KNOWS, he's fine with it, BUT, to the "habitual rule-breakers" in this understanding(my DH for example -well, he balks & REFUSES to be "manhandled")


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## Crantastic

If I tell Crystal to let me get her, she moves in close to my leg so I can scoop her up. I carry her over muddy, wet spots outside, but she needs to actually _walk_ for most of our walk or she's unhappy.

She has a Sherpa bag that I bought when we had to fly to Toronto and back (family vacation), and she was pretty good in there. I was travelling with my whole family, including the dog and my four-month-old niece, and neither the dog nor the baby made a peep on both flights. None of the other passengers even realized Crystal was under the seat. I can't imagine carrying her around in the bag normally, though. She REALLY likes to walk, and like I said earlier, if she doesn't get regular exercise, she is mopey and stubborn (well, more stubborn than usual, haha) and more prone to chewing/random zoomies.


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## Deron_dog

You know you guys these pictures tempt me beyond to belife to get this gorgeous little Black and White Pap boy that I've been eyeing online for the last month


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## PappyMom

I wish someone had told my 2 that Paps didn't like to be carried!! Even Gizmo at 13 lbs LOVES when he's carried around. He needs the excercise though, so we make him walk..but he'd rather curl up in our arms like a big baby..lmao..he's really a sight to see.

And Roxy is just like Gigi. She looooves her clothes, esp if it's a frilly dress..and she looooves to be carried everywhere! She's the perfect size for it too! She has been pissy with me lately though, because we are trying to work on her fear issues, by taking her to the DP more and to an on-leash local park where lotttss of dogs go..She's making progress but BOY does she hate me!! The whole on-leash time, she is begging to be picked up.


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## Laurelin

With mine, it varies. Rose is pretty low energy. If she gets to play a while every day, she's okay. She hates wet grass. She also doesn't like to be held and hates dressing up though.  If you put clothes on her, she is miserable.

The other four are absolutely not low energy. If Mia doesn't get a few hours a day outside running then she's unbearable to live with. Mia is like a border collie on crack that is condensed into a small size. Truly. This is a dog that opens drawers, chews destructively, and constantly throws tennis balls in your face. She doesn't like to be carried at all, especially outside. She will squirm and cry wanting to be let down so she can run. Even snow days I was bundled up outside at the park with Mia playing in the snow. She really can't go much more than a day without exercise. Sun, snow, rain, whatever, I'm outside with her. 

Mia, Nard, and Summer do like to be held inside sometimes. But only when they're really tired. Most the time they curl up next to me. Beau is too hyper to be held really. He will shove himself up next to you, but if you try to hold him, he leaves. Rose will ask to be put on the bed and that's about her extent of wanting to be picked up.

We tried carrying Beau in a bag, too. Disaster. First of all, you really dont want 8 lbs hanging off your arm especially when its squirming and trying to jump out.

In my experience chis are not nearly as high energy. Some are kind of hyper but they're not as driven it seems. If Mia puts her mind to something, she will not stop. I have to limit her play because she will not stop on her own. She will run herself to where she makes herself sick. 

I'm not trying to dissuade you but it is one of the biggest reason I see them in rescue. They're not the best lapdog breed if you want a calm dog. Some are and if you really want one go through a breeder that can match you to the right personality. Mia is at the very top of the scale, imo, when it comes to paps. But she's not all that unusual in the breed. Rose is pretty unusual but paps like that do happen.


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## Laurelin

Here's one of my favorite mud pics, lol!


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## Darla Giselle

Lol these stories are hilarious! But to conclude this disscussion, in all cases with dogs there are the exceptions. I think you all are describing every dog breed. Lol I've known low/high energy malts, yorkies, chihuahuas, labs, ect. Especially a female maltese like my Gigi is very, very rare! Most of them are very independent and don't like to be held. This is why a lot of owners get male malts because they're cuddly. And the fact that she let's me do anything to her is just perfect. That may be good that paps are not lap dogs, my lap already belongs to Gigi. It will be great to get a real "dog" one day, as my Gigi has cnvonced herself she is NOT one. Lol So my second dog will be a Biewer Terrier, then a pap, then maybe a klee kai or a Cav. But if I ever get a pap it will be in the 4-6 year range. I will search the ends of the world for a doggie companion, price and location are no object when it comes to dogs for me. 

And Laurelin, I can't believe that Mia can go home and the dirt will almost just fall off of her. My Gigi will be grey and smelly even AFTER a bath!  She attracts lint from our house like a roller two days after a bath!


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## Laurelin

Yeah there's always exceptions but you can average the dogs and see breed tendencies. I literally know probably near 200 paps pretty well. Some are calmer (mostly older ones) but most are pretty high energy and high strung. Even with Mia being my 7th pap I was not ready for her, lol. She is much much more dog than basically anyone looking for a lapdog would want. The good news is now I feel 100% certain I can handle a border collie as my next dog. Most bcs I know are actually easier than her....

It's pretty much permanent insanity in a house full of papillons, but I think it's a good kind of insanity. 

Here's a good page to look over if you're at all interested in the breed.

http://www.braylorspapillons.com/versatility.htm


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## Laurelin

Darla Giselle said:


> And Laurelin, I can't believe that Mia can go home and the dirt will almost just fall off of her. My Gigi will be grey and smelly even AFTER a bath!  She attracts lint from our house like a roller two days after a bath!


Wash and wear coat is very nice.


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## BooLette

> I don't know a single Pap that needs almost no exercise. And they will get dirty as well, dirt mud, leaves.


Now you do!

Root isn't nearly as energetic as Delilah. In fact, she wears him out with wrestling and playing chase just around inside the house. When they go outside he would rather sun bathe than be bothered with playing. When he does play though, you're right he gets COVERED in mud. I bathe him more than any dog I've ever had. 

He is extremely mellow and he will tire out after an hour or two of training. I think I got an easy papillon! lol 

I have met some that looked like they were on crack. Seriously, their eyes were always moving ,they were overly alert, and the one that I met was actually shaking while her owner had her in a sit-stay. It was crazy.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Perhaps Root is still growing into his Pappy craziness? LOL

As I'm typing this Nia is zooming around my house with a tennis ball in her mouth. She just went on a 2 hr walk!!

If Nia is too excited for example if her doggy friends are near or something she'll shake if I make her stay in one place. Or if a bunch of other dogs are trying to get treats off someone Nia knows, she'll shake as well if I make her stay away. 

I find Paps to be so exuberant and excitable.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Darla Giselle said:


> Lol these stories are hilarious! But to conclude this disscussion, in all cases with dogs there are the exceptions. I think you all are describing every dog breed. Lol I've known low/high energy malts, yorkies, chihuahuas, labs, ect. Especially a female maltese like my Gigi is very, very rare! Most of them are very independent and don't like to be held. This is why a lot of owners get male malts because they're cuddly. And the fact that she let's me do anything to her is just perfect.


Here's our friend's maltese. She's really cuddly and LOVE to dress up! Her mom carries her a lot and she has all these designer (Gucci, Chanel. etc.) collars and leads. She's a bit dirty in this pic because she's been staying with us for a while and we don't have a whitening shampoo that Suri's mom uses. Plus we take her to the park 3-4 hrs a day four days a week.










Edit: Wow she looks ginormous! She's only 3 lbs.


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## Laurelin

BooLette said:


> I have met some that looked like they were on crack. Seriously, their eyes were always moving ,they were overly alert, and the one that I met was actually shaking while her owner had her in a sit-stay. It was crazy.


If you work Mia up, she will shake and scream in excitement if you hold her back. (Think toller scream almost) Mia is always always thinking. She's always got something going on in her mind. Most the time she's moving too. 

Nard and Rose are mellow, the other three are high strung. Nard is high energy but calm at the same time, if that makes sense. I find my crew to be overall pretty easy to manage but a lot of people are pretty quickly overwhelmed when they're in the house just because the dogs are almost always doing something. Luckily they self entertain well. Mia and Nard are wrestling around my floor right now and I'm not really sure what Beau is doing. He is running around and staring at me. He may need to go potty.


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## lucidity

BooLette said:


> I have met some that looked like they were on crack. Seriously, their eyes were always moving ,they were overly alert, and the one that I met was actually shaking while her owner had her in a sit-stay. It was crazy.


Goodness, THAT is Cadence to a tee!!! The people at daycare are always commenting on how he's always GOGOGO, never sits still. He'll literally play himself to death if he could, I think. They tell me that he's moving around all day, 8 hours a day. Even when he's staying still, his ears and eyes are twitching around and looking for something to do! LOL.

It took me a while to teach him to stay because.. well.. he always wants to dart around! 

And, yeah, he gets TONS of baths too.. haha. I can't stand the mud he attracts! I'm also too impatient to wait for the fur to dry so I can brush the mud out, so whenever we come home, it's straight to the tub.


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## BooLette

> Perhaps Root is still growing into his Pappy craziness? LOL


I don't know... I kind of wish that he wasn't so mellow and easily worn out because he is always done walking/playing way before Delilah and I are.



> If you work Mia up, she will shake and scream in excitement if you hold her back. (Think toller scream almost) Mia is always always thinking. She's always got something going on in her mind. Most the time she's moving too.
> 
> Nard and Rose are mellow, the other three are high strung. Nard is high energy but calm at the same time, if that makes sense. I find my crew to be overall pretty easy to manage but a lot of people are pretty quickly overwhelmed when they're in the house just because the dogs are almost always doing something. Luckily they self entertain well. Mia and Nard are wrestling around my floor right now and I'm not really sure what Beau is doing. He is running around and staring at me. He may need to go potty.



Root seems to do a lot of thinking as well, but he uses most of his energy on food to be honest. He doesn't really get overly excited, but he will bark his head off if he isn't getting his way. I don't know, I think he is just mellow. 
Like I said, Delilah is way more hyper than he is. I attribute that to the corgi in her. She acts like a corgi way more than a shnauzer IMO. She will wrestle with Root and he will just want to lay down and relax with a bully stick and she will still be running all over the place and playing fetch and going nuts. Maybe I think that he is mellow because Delilah is waaay crazy? lol

Michi: Is that Truffles? Oh my she is gorgeous! I love her coloring.


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## Michiyo-Fir

BooLette said:


> Michi: Is that Truffles? Oh my she is gorgeous! I love her coloring.


Yup that's Truffles! She's got the best temperament in the world, loves the kids and loves everyone and all dogs. Hands down easiest dog ever, no problems at all! The only thing is that dirt and stuff get into her long droopy eats and she eats too much. She'll eat a dead pigeon smeared into the road by a car....

Here's another picture. Sorry for spamming the Pap thread! She's has a wrong Cav face but she's the one my cousin loved and she's such a sweetie!


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## LilOllie

Aww what a cute Cav! Oliver was playing with a blenheim cavalier at the dog park and their coats looked so much alike. It was so cute watching them play together, they were matching buddies.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Actually weirdly enough Truffles' coat collects SO much more dirt and leaves and dust compared to Nia's. We ended up trimming her every month or so. Nia's doesn't collect that much dirt. Especially not on the leg featherings and feet.


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## LazyGRanch713

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Yup that's Truffles! She's got the best temperament in the world, loves the kids and loves everyone and all dogs. Hands down easiest dog ever, no problems at all! The only thing is that dirt and stuff get into her long droopy eats and she eats too much. She'll eat a dead pigeon smeared into the road by a car....
> 
> Here's another picture. Sorry for spamming the Pap thread! She's has a wrong Cav face but she's the one my cousin loved and she's such a sweetie!


Oh, Truffles is GORGEOUS...I love cavs to pieces..


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## LazyGRanch713

Laurelin said:


> Here's one of my favorite mud pics, lol!


LMAO! I LOVE IT!!!! Tag HATES the mud, and even tonight I tried to convince him it's OK if he gets muddy. He walks slowly, deliberately, with this disgusted look on his face. For some reason, he doesn't seem to mind it if there's something distracting him. If he sees something he wants, he'll plow through 3 feet of mud to get it and happily come inside and tromp all over the house with muddy boots


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## LazyGRanch713

Laurelin said:


> If you work Mia up, she will shake and scream in excitement if you hold her back. (Think toller scream almost) Mia is always always thinking. She's always got something going on in her mind. Most the time she's moving too.
> 
> Nard and Rose are mellow, the other three are high strung. Nard is high energy but calm at the same time, if that makes sense. I find my crew to be overall pretty easy to manage but a lot of people are pretty quickly overwhelmed when they're in the house just because the dogs are almost always doing something. Luckily they self entertain well. Mia and Nard are wrestling around my floor right now and I'm not really sure what Beau is doing. He is running around and staring at me. He may need to go potty.


I think I would love living in your house 
Dude is pretty mellow, but he was pretty active as a pup. Not nearly as active as Tag, but for the most part Dude would think Life Was Perfect if people spent 24/7 sitting around him and telling him how gorgeous and brilliant he is  Tag is pretty high strung, and has shown that screamy side to him (it's rather hilarious, actually!) When he's waiting at the start line in agility class he's sitting, rigid, tense, and focused on me so he doesn't miss his "go" signal. He too self entertains, and spends a lot of time playing wrastlin' and bitey-face with Sarah the cat (who is the instigator and will drive HIM nuts to keep the game going).


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## Darla Giselle

Laurelin said:


> Here's a good page to look over if you're at all interested in the breed.
> 
> http://www.braylorspapillons.com/versatility.htm


I just want to thank you Laurelin for sharing this link with me. I LOVED it! Those pictures are just so heart-warming. This is why I've always loved the Papillon, they are SO versitile! I saw your fur-kids in there too. Makes me want one even sooner! If only I had the time now! LOL


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## Crantastic

Note, though, that the page says, "At the end of the day they also make a great lap warmer and TV companion." For the _rest_ of that day, you'd better be exercising the heck out of almost all of them.


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## Laurelin

Darla Giselle said:


> I just want to thank you Laurelin for sharing this link with me. I LOVED it! Those pictures are just so heart-warming. This is why I've always loved the Papillon, they are SO versitile! I saw your fur-kids in there too. Makes me want one even sooner! If only I had the time now! LOL


Np, that's Mia's breeder and she has a lot of dogs that do all sorts of different things. For the right people, they're the best breed you could ever ask for. I know I'll always have them in my life. 

Right now it's the end of the day and I have four papillons on my bed (two asleep) and one curled up in a bed in the floor.


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## PappyMom

Darla Giselle said:


> I just want to thank you Laurelin for sharing this link with me. I LOVED it! Those pictures are just so heart-warming. This is why I've always loved the Papillon, they are SO versitile! I saw your fur-kids in there too. Makes me want one even sooner! If only I had the time now! LOL


Wish I could clone Roxy for you! LOL, I think she'd be a perfect fit with Gigi!


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## LaurenE

Hi y'all, I'm new to the forum and just adopted a 1 1/2 yr old male Papillon. I also have a 6 month old Bichon Frise/Lhasa Apso mix--Charlie. I need a name for my new guy and am looking for some suggestions . I don't have the greatest pics but here are a few I just took to give you some ideas.


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## PappyMom

Hehe, we got another one. <3 Welcome to the DF Papillon crew! What a lovely little boy..

Here's a list of what we wanted to name Gizmo:

Radar
Romeo
Apollo
Bailey
Ares
Caesar
Gage
Chase..

Hehe, Charlie and Chase sounds cute.


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## Crantastic

I was going to suggest Chase! It's one of the names (along with Cole, Cal and Cain) I was considering for the pup I'm bringing home in three weeks. (I have a Crystal already, so was looking at C names as well.) I went with Casper... so you can use any of them except that one.


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## LaurenE

Ok, two votes for Chase


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## PappyMom

Hehe Cran, we thought about Casper for Giz too, because of his all white face..but no-one would let me call him anything but Gizmo!


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## Michiyo-Fir

I like Ares! I want one of my future dogs to be named that! Other names I like are Dante and Benjamin (benji)


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## LaurenE

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I like Ares! I want one of my future dogs to be named that! Other names I like are Dante and Benjamin (benji)


Dante is one of the names I was considering actually. I wanted something french but I can't seem to find anything that fits lol.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

LaurenE said:


> Dante is one of the names I was considering actually. I wanted something french but I can't seem to find anything that fits lol.


I thought Dante is an Italian name? I also plan to use Lucien and Marius as future names.


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## Laurelin

My next boy is going to be Leo, I think. (Napoleon, hehe)

Your new baby is adorable! Congrats on him!


----------



## PappyMom

Michi, a facebook friend of mine has a Pappy named Lucian.. I love that name..

but then again it reminds me of one of my fav movie series, Underworld...LOL I'm a nerd.


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## Laurelin

Took Mia down to the future ranch (trying to map out where we want to put things, etc). She decided to pose on a rock, lol! Yes, I told her there was a squirrel, that is why she is looking up. 










And one more I kind of liked.


----------



## Laurelin

It seems someone weird changed the pap wiki page AGAIN. lol



> The Papillon has the appearance of a dainty toy breed, but many owners will claim that their dogs are "big dogs in little dog suits". Some people find that their Papillon is very capable of handling a good five-mile walk. One aspect of the Papillon that has led many to believe the "big dog" assertion is this breed's surprising athletic ability. Don't be surprised by this dog's size and appearance; they are extremely athletic. In contrast to its staid and stately representation in the Old Master portraits, the Papillon is highly energetic and intelligent. The breed is far older than any other represented by the AKC* and is only notable for its oft-cited, yet dubious "psychological abilities"; some strange proponents of the Papillon claim that its true strength lies in its ability to perceive the emotional needs of its owner and to translate them into a healthy psychological environment. But this is of course totally without substantiation in the scientific literature. In other words, the animal becomes what the owner needs at the time, depending on circumstances.* Provided their genetic structure is sound, and they are not the product of "puppy mill" inbreeding, they are generally healthy animals. Papillons are built for movement, and most do not need any encouragement to apply their energy to athletic activities. They enjoy at least a half hour running about.[citation needed]


wtf?


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## lucidity

I hate the wiki Pap page. It has pretty much no information whatsoever compared to the other breed pages


----------



## PappyMom

LOL, wow. That's a little crazy...although when I think about it, my paps do kind of mold to however I'm feeling that day..but then again, I think my pug does too..lol..

Cute Mia pics!! She's such a little Pappy Diva. She got hairy fast too! Seems like just yesterday when she was all nakie..lol.


----------



## LaurenE

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I thought Dante is an Italian name? I also plan to use Lucien and Marius as future names.


Haha, yeah I think Dante is technically Latin but its definitely more Italian than French. I just like it . I'm leaning toward Tristan now.


----------



## LilOllie

Cute Mia pics! She's like "squirell, where's the squirell?" hehe. She is very beautiful.


----------



## Crantastic

lucidity said:


> I hate the wiki Pap page. It has pretty much no information whatsoever compared to the other breed pages


That's the beauty of Wikipedia, though -- any one of us could fix that! Someone (not me; I'm lazy ) should go find some good links and update the page with new info and citations.


----------



## LaurenE

Heres a pic of Tristan at the dog park today. I'm almost embarrassed to post after seeing the GORGEOUS photos the rest of y'all take but I'm practicing lol.


----------



## LilOllie

Tristan is a cutie pie! He looks a bit blinded by the sun though. hehe


----------



## lucidity

Man, Tristan looks like Oliver!  But with straight up ears, lol.

Cran: LOL, I'm too lazy to edit the Pap page on Wikipedia as well.. anyone care to volunteer?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Tristan also reminds me of Basil! Where's he been lately??


----------



## PappyMom

Aww, he does remind me of Basil!! I don't think Basil's mommy checks the Pap thread as often as we do! But hey! 652, we're almost to 700 posts...Paps have clearly taken over DF.


----------



## LaurenE

My "ownership" of Tristan is about to become official! He passed his trial run with me (i.e. I fell in love with him lol) and the family surrendering him is going to start the transfer of the paperwork, etc. I'm so excited!


----------



## LaurenE




----------



## yappypappymom

Yay!! Congrats LaurenE!!


----------



## BooLette

Yes Congrats! He is very cute!


----------



## PappyMom

Congrats on Tristan! He's adorable..

Keep posting pics guys, I'm really missing my Gizmo today.


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## lucygoose

Hi Everyone!!

I have had puter problems and then bought a new one, but man.....my puter was 9 years old.....had XP.....New camera I am learning too.

I am loving all your pictures and welcome to the newbies and Lauren, that Mia is just a killer! LOL...Your pictures are amazing as always!! I am going to try to post for the first time here with this new puter.....

Here are my kids!! Willie in his kennel after a agility run at the club....Happy Pappy! LOL..the two of them on the couch and then Willie and Anabelle on a walk in the beautiful weather we were having......Happy Spring to you all!!


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## Michiyo-Fir

We haven't seen Willie and anabelle in sooo long! He's so pretty! Anabelle is gorgeous too! Looks like she's growing up fast!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Here's what 6 hrs of walking + 1 hr doggie friends time does to poor Nia. The weather was so good my mom didn't let her stay home for one second since the moment I went to work this morning LOL.

I said go find your ball. 10 min later, no Nia. I went to check. First I saw this










let's take a closer look










Totally lifeless!











Hey you've gotta give the girl credit! She did find the ball


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Guess what I have???!!! A pap pic! I was too busy during the Skyhoundz competition today to take pics (which is why I'm waiting on other folks to send their pics to me before I post a thread on that plus results of the competition), but in the car on the way home, I took a couple of pics. I apologize for the poor pic quality, but isn't Leroy gorgeous? His ear fringe was to die for. First pap I've ever met. He rode home in my lap.


----------



## Crantastic

Wow, lots of fringe on that boy! He's very pretty. I'm glad you liked the first pap you got to meet -- they really are lovely little dogs. 

Michiyo-Fir, those pics are so cute! I love it when they're exhausted and just flop. Crystal is lying in the same position right now (it's 2:15am and she gets pretty tired by this time).


----------



## Laurelin

Oh wow, he is beauuuutiful.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's a couple from yesterday


----------



## lucygoose

Thanks!! Yes, little Missy Anabelle is growing up....she turns a year old the 29th....her coat is really coming in.....I love all the pictures you guys.....There is a new 7 month old pap pup in Anabelle's agility puppy class.....that makes 5 now....this breed is really going strong!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

I KNEW someone else would get a better pic of Leroy than I did!...


----------



## Laurelin

lucygoose said:


> Thanks!! Yes, little Missy Anabelle is growing up....she turns a year old the 29th....her coat is really coming in.....I love all the pictures you guys.....There is a new 7 month old pap pup in Anabelle's agility puppy class.....that makes 5 now....this breed is really going strong!


I'm jealous! I was the ONLY non herding breed and the ONLY small breed in my agility classes!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

He is stunning! I want him


----------



## lucidity

I'm loving the new photos!  I can't wait for Cadence to get older and grow his coat/fringe out. GROW GROW!! Does anyone have any miracle coat grower or something? Lol.

I will probably start agility classes with Cadence in summer. Let's hope it'll be fun! I'm betting he'll get distracted by the other dogs/people around though. He has the attention span of a bee.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> I'm loving the new photos!  I can't wait for Cadence to get older and grow his coat/fringe out. GROW GROW!! Does anyone have any miracle coat grower or something? Lol.


Lol. Nia's coat is growing pretty slow. It was pretty long when she was 10 months old, then pre-winter shedding hit and it became quite a lot shorter. Now it's pretty good again but she's started to shed a lot again so I guess it'll get a little shorter and thinner since it's really thick right now.


----------



## lucidity

Ugh.. tell me about the shedding!  I can't even wear black clothes anymore because I get covered in fur after picking Cadence up! Nia has AWESOME fringe though. Cadence still has... like... one strand on each ear, lol.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> Ugh.. tell me about the shedding!  I can't even wear black clothes anymore because I get covered in fur after picking Cadence up! Nia has AWESOME fringe though. Cadence still has... like... one strand on each ear, lol.


At least he has 1 strand! Don't give up hope! One day he may just go poof! And grow a ton of fringe! I wouldn't know what to do if Nia grew a huge curtain fringe though. Truffles has really long feathered ears and they're ALWAYS filthy dirty I'm guessing if a Pap has a lot of fringe it's going to get pretty dirty too. Nia's is already dragging on the floor, in her water bowl, etc. when her head is down. Yuck. That's why I bought a prick eared dog! So no yucky stuff gets onto their ear hair but I never took fringing into consideration! 

I don't mind the shedding much. I just sweep the floors a bit more and vacuum but my mom is definitely not happy about it! Every time Nia sheds she tells me to give Nia away LOL. She's just joking though


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal is three and I have never noticed the shedding. My dad is convinced she doesn't shed at all! Occasionally I will find some long white hairs blowing across the floor, but more often than not the only hair I see around here is cat hair. I get a lot of Crystal hair out when I brush her, but it doesn't seem to end up on my furniture or anything when she's just hanging out.

(Don't be too envious, though. The Klee Kai will more than make up for the lack of shed Papillon hair.)


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Crantastic said:


> Crystal is three and I have never noticed the shedding. My dad is convinced she doesn't shed at all! Occasionally I will find some long white hairs blowing across the floor, but more often than not the only hair I see around here is cat hair. I get a lot of Crystal hair out when I brush her, but it doesn't seem to end up on my furniture or anything when she's just hanging out.
> 
> (Don't be too envious, though. The Klee Kai will more than make up for the lack of shed Papillon hair.)


Hmm maybe it has something to do with the temperature? What's the winters and summers like in PEI? 

I'm not sure, even Nia's breeder says her dogs have periods of heavy shedding and then periods of almost no shedding.


----------



## lucidity

Yeah, the weather might be a factor?

Cadence was shedding a whole lot in Sept/Oct too.. and then it totally stopped! I hardly saw any of his fur around.. and then just a couple of weeks ago, it started up again. It's really bad right now.

Michi: Oh noes, I totally didn't think of the fringe getting in the way of eating/drinking! LOL! I can just imagine how funny it would look  But yes, I agree. I don't think I'll ever have a drop-eared dog just because I'm so afraid of cleaning ears that the poor dog will probably be bombarded with never ending ear infections!


----------



## Crantastic

It rarely goes above 30C in summer and doesn't usually go below -15C in winter. I know that some papillons do shed quite a bit... maybe I'm just lucky. Or maybe she's a weird one! I should ask her breeder how much Crystal's parents and brother shed.

I brush her fairly often, so maybe that makes a difference? I dunno.

And heh, yes, Crystal's fringe gets in her water bowl, and if she throws up she can get vomit on it (I hold her ears back if I get there in time, haha). Also, everyone wants to touch it, which makes it look greasy and stringy. My family members are all trained not to touch it now, at least.


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## lucygoose

Leroy is really beautiful!! I want a sable next.....shhhh...do not tell DH! LOL

Yes, the paps are really growing at our club.....Today Anabelle did great!! She is nothing like reactive Willie...LOL.I will be doing a AKC show next month with him....our first AKC...we have done UKC, CPE before.....but not that many of each...just a couple...he does perfect in class...with our *class* we have been doing this a few years now....but he is so reactive that other dogs and people he is just to worried about them and just stresses in the ring......Anabelle is going to be my fun dog....nothing like him....I love agility....I should have done it way younger...LOL...sorry for the rattling..


----------



## Lil RiRi

I've taken some new pictures. Chloe is fitting in nicely! She is so smart. Her only issue is her barking. She does it rarely in the house, but at everything in public. I don't know how to get her stop. Any suggestions? I try directing her attention to something else, but once she starts she can't stop. So, here are my chinese cresteds.. Oops. Did I mention that someone thought they were chinese cresteds? LOL I love Chinese Cresteds. But, my babies aren't naked! Maybe a little bald.. Ppl are also always confused as to why one has more hair than the other, also the coloring. They always ask if they are the same dog and what's going on with the little one. I don't know why the pictures resized so small. Oh well..


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## lucidity

Aww, she's adorable!! Don't worry, she'll grow out of the uglies soon and people will stop asking you silly questions!  I like how she and Riley seem to be getting along so well.

Crantastic, I brush Cadence at least once a day.. but he's still shedding like crazy.


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## Lil RiRi

lucidity said:


> Aww, she's adorable!! Don't worry, she'll grow out of the uglies soon and people will stop asking you silly questions!  I like how she and Riley seem to be getting along so well.
> 
> Crantastic, I brush Cadence at least once a day.. but he's still shedding like crazy.


Yeah.. they are best friends! Everything Riley does she does. It's so cute to watch her. I'm going to have to take a picture of her playing by herself. It's the cutest thing ever!


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## Michiyo-Fir

OO! New puppy pics! I love bald puppies. In fact I'm jealous of ppl with puppy uglies paps. Nia never went through that and I think it's super cute!

Here's a couple of recents.

Posing



























Having a romp









almost eating rabbit









after the romp









tired puppy


----------



## Rinz

I carry around Rinzzo ALL the time and he loves it.
He sits back and relaxes while I cart him around.

Just saying


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## LilOllie

I just love the color of Nia's facial markings. She is so pretty


----------



## Darla Giselle

I saw this article from the Pap Club: 
http://www.papillonclub.org/index.p...illon&catid=66:performance-articles&Itemid=99
I know LPs are common in all small breeds, but is it even more so with paps? I know paps are active(REALLY active). Do your active paps have any grade LP? Many maltese I know get LPs from accidental jumping off a couch or step...or arms... This is another reason I didn't want to start agility with my Gigi, I didn't want to irritate her knees.


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## lucidity

From what I know, LP isn't a huge problem in Paps. Actually, Paps don't have any widespread health problems. The genetic issues that they have are usually very rare--LP, PRA, etc. This is one of the main reasons why I went with a Pap instead of a Pom. They have less health problems.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Darla Giselle said:


> I saw this article from the Pap Club:
> http://www.papillonclub.org/index.p...illon&catid=66:performance-articles&Itemid=99
> I know LPs are common in all small breeds, but is it even more so with paps? I know paps are active(REALLY active). Do your active paps have any grade LP? Many maltese I know get LPs from accidental jumping off a couch or step...or arms... This is another reason I didn't want to start agility with my Gigi, I didn't want to irritate her knees.


LP is very common with Papillons. Try to make sure the breeder you find x-rays or does some kind of test for the knees on the breeding stock.

I often wonder if Nia will have bad knees later in life since she's really energetic and she runs SO much. She's been running 2 hrs a day at least since 5 or 6 months old. I wonder if that did any damage to her knees. Right now she doesn't have any problems, they're fine.


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## Laurelin

I know 3 paps with LP and 2 of those have had to have surgery. (Keep in mind this is out of probably near 200 I know)

I have read somewhere (can't find it) that LP affects about 3% of papillons and not always severe enough to require surgery. None of mine have patella problems as of yet. Beau's been screened for patellar luxation as well and is clear. 

ETA: Haha, I got confused. The slideshow on the side of that link had a big picture of Mia's dad on it.

ETA2: And now I clicked back and it's her brother. lol I think I know who donated pictures to the PCA.


----------



## Darla Giselle

Awww, this is so sad: http://www.medleepapillons.com/jeter.html
why didn't the pap owner pick her puppy up? We stopped going to obedience classes because even in the level 3 classes, the 100+ lb GSD, labs, Rotties, ect. kept getting at each other. Nope, no 4 pound dog is going to wait for that to happen to her.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm assuming it happened very fast. It's hard to say without being there if picking the dog up would even have helped. Sometimes it makes things worse.

I've been in lots of training classes. So far things have gone well but you never know. A friend of mine had her pap grabbed by a big dog at a dog show while both dogs were on leashes. The pap lived but it's always a slight risk with dogs (even big dogs) that they will hurt or even kill another dog. I personally will continue taking the toy dogs to the park and training sessions because I don't believe in putting them in a bubble. Accidents happen but they're rare.


----------



## Darla Giselle

Laurelin said:


> I'm assuming it happened very fast. It's hard to say without being there if picking the dog up would even have helped. Sometimes it makes things worse.
> 
> I've been in lots of training classes. So far things have gone well but you never know. A friend of mine had her pap grabbed by a big dog at a dog show while both dogs were on leashes. The pap lived but it's always a slight risk with dogs (even big dogs) that they will hurt or even kill another dog. I personally will continue taking the toy dogs to the park and training sessions because* I don't believe in putting them in a bubble. Accidents happen but they're rare.*


I like this.


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## BooLette

Darla Giselle said:


> Awww, this is so sad: http://www.medleepapillons.com/jeter.html
> why didn't the pap owner pick her puppy up? We stopped going to obedience classes because even in the level 3 classes, the 100+ lb GSD, labs, Rotties, ect. kept getting at each other. Nope, no 4 pound dog is going to wait for that to happen to her.


I thought it was extremely sad that right at the end it said the owner of Jeter was murdered!


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## Laurelin

I love this picture from a 1959 breed specialty.


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## Darla Giselle

BooLette said:


> I thought it was extremely sad that right at the end it said the owner of Jeter was murdered!


Yup, at least her and her pap are together again.


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## Crantastic

Crystal's elk antler came in the mail yesterday.





































I think she likes it.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Wow looks great! I saw them selling it in the pet store a few days ago and I was wondering if I should get one. I think I will try one next time I go. Crystal's so pretty~


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## Crantastic

When I gave it to her, at first she just kicked it around the floor, licked it a bit, picked it up and dropped it... but when I scratched it up a little with a nail file to get it to smell more, she loved it. She's been chewing it and carrying it around all day. She's a very strong chewer for such a little dog, so antlers seem to be great so far!


----------



## BooLette

I won't do antlers. We had a dog that broke his tooth on one, and it has turned me off to them.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow I just found this Pap. My gosh how can a dog grow so much fringe?!?









Here's his page http://www.silenzio.se/html/d-master.html


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## yappypappymom

As far as antlers go...Leif LOVES them..the fresher the better (I live w/2 hunters,...soooo... - he worrys himself with the new ones for a bit, then quickly looses interest...TIL the next ones come around, then begins the entire process all over again, &....
Michiyo...that pap is to DIE FOR!!! My word, he took my breath away!!  He is GORGEOUS!!!!!


----------



## lucidity

Wow!! That's actually kinda creepy... looks like a human ponytail, lol!


----------



## lucygoose

We do deer antlers here....I hope no one breaks a tooth! Anabelle is such a chewer....we say she could chew through steel.....LOL.....We got ours from Helping Udders.....


----------



## Crantastic

My aunt's dog, Maggie the mini dachshund, came to visit today, and she made Crystal look like a giant! I don't have any pictures of them together, but I have a pic of Crystal with Maggie's mom, Sally, from just after I got Crystal (when she still didn't have her full coat):










Crystal seemed so happy to have another dog around! She barked at Maggie when she first saw her, but was soon bouncing around trying to get her to play. She didn't mind when Maggie chased her ball or went near her crate or beds. They (and the three cats) sat together and enjoyed some treats. We went for an hour-long walk (well, Crystal and I walked; it was more of a half walk and half carry for little Maggie), and Crystal wasn't at all dog-reactive, when normally she will sometimes growl at other dogs. We even ran into a black cocker spaniel on the sidewalk and she was an inch away from it and didn't get angry. It makes me even more confident in the belief that she will enjoy having a new puppy around. I pick Casper up on Friday.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Aww that's great to hear! Nia enjoys the company of other dogs too, actually she loves them more than me! When Casper's home we've got to see pictures!

Today, Nia and I worked for 2 hrs on reactivity issues and she was really good throughout the whole session! For about half of the dogs we met she didn't make a peep and every dog she greeted she immediately wanted to play.

The weird thing with her is as I just found out if I spend about 1 min or so getting her attention and making sure she doesn't bark at the new dog when she can see them, after that minute passes she greets them without barking at all. Not sure why, it's just the phase when she first sees a dog she's so hyped up and nervous she's loud!

Also first time she ran into a lake today LOL. I just bathed her yesterday and she jumped into a very muddy lake today. Ah well, now she's a little weird smelling and people kept staring at me in disbelief at my little wet dog on a sunny day. No one seems to believe she went for a dip!


----------



## Crantastic

Haha, and you didn't get pictures? 

I find that Crystal, too, is much less dog-reactive if I see the dog first, point it out to her and tell her to be quiet. I think she's also gotten more self-assured over the past couple of years and has stopped feeling threatened by most dogs (she's still not fond of really big ones). It's very nice.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I thought it was going to rain today so I didn't bring my camera but the weather turned really nice and sunny! I regretted not taking the camera so much! We met around 10 dogs and Nia played with like 5 of them, I wish I got pictures! I also find it a little hard to carry such a big camera and do training related stuff.

Honestly I can't figure out if Nia's reactivity is due to fear or excitement. Maybe both since while she's barking the first thing she does is run straight at them wagging and barking and then the sniff. With big dogs she's a little more hesitant to sniff but she'll run up and bark while wagging. But today she was great, we met a Mastiff and she didn't bark (after doing the attention thing of course) and licked him. Same with a lab a few days ago. I think she's making some progress. The biggest problem is that we're inconsistent. When my mom takes her out (which is about half the time) she lets Nia bark as much as she wants and doesn't do anything about it. That's the biggest problem. When summer hits(my vacation) I'm going to be doing full time training and I'm not going to let my mom take her out ha!


----------



## lucidity

I can't wait to see your new puppy pics, Cran! Be sure to take lots and lots of them


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Couple of new pics

I try to jump down cliff into lake 




































I shmell biiiird!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

2 meet and greet pics showing Nia's enthusiasm


----------



## Lil RiRi

I LOVE NIA!! I always have. She just always look so regal and beautiful.


----------



## Laurelin

Nia's really growing into herself! 

Mia's ear fringe has gone crazy lately. It's getting really quite long... but only on the bottoms of her ears. She's so weird.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

one more pic I posted before but kinda like.










I really quite like Mia's head shape, Nia's head shape makes her look puppyish I think









Edit: I just noticed Nia's growing more fringe that I thought she would. I always thought she would end up being a pretty much fringeless dog. Even her breeder wasn't sure if she was going to have any fringe at all! Looks like I got pretty lucky


----------



## Laurelin

Really? I'm not too fond of Mia's snout. It's rather snippy in the muzzle. I wish her head was a bit broader.

Off of wiki. Famous people with papillons:



> * Marie Antoinette owned a Phalène, the drop eared variety of papillons. All papillons were drop-eared until the 20th century.
> * Madame de Pompadour and Henry III also had a Phalène, and possessed a very strong devotion to the breed.
> * Actress Autumn Reeser of The O.C. owns a Papillon named Gatsby after the book The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald.
> * Tech expert Leo Laporte owns a Papillon named Ozzy.
> * George Takei, Mr. Sulu from Star Trek and official announcer of the Howard Stern Show on Sirius 100 owned a Papillon named Reine (her full name is "La Reine Blanche" -- The White Queen).
> * * Porn star Ron Jeremy has two Papillons, named Jenna and Tiffany. They can be seen in background of some of his movies.*
> * TV character Edna Birch from Emmerdale has a Papillon named Tootsie.
> * Legendary screen star Lauren Bacall never travels without her own well-behaved Papillon.
> * Singer Christina Aguilera owns two Papillons, Chewy and Stinky.
> * Artist Eliza Leahy owns a Papillon, Gem, who is also a Psychiatric Service Dog
> * Japanese pop singer Yuya Tegoshi has a Papillon named Tiny.
> * Magician and Juggler Dan Chan has a Papillon named Ace who performs 200 shows a year with him
> * Jane Kelly has two Papillons called Trudy and Trixy.
> * Musician Shinya Yamada owns a male Papillon by the name of Ben (short for Benkei). Ben is depicted on a drum in one of Shinya's drum sets.
> * Libertarian Radio Talk Show Host Neal Boortz owned a Papillon named Coco.
> * Jon Lajoie also owns a Papillon by the name of Scruffy.
> * Alex Gaskarth, vocalist of All Time Low owns a Papillon named Sebastian.
> * Sean Finney, author of the hit book The Travels of Mink, has a very hyper Papillon named Rascal.
> * Justin Bieber owns 1 papillon dog named Sammy




Also interesting, my parents came up with my name becaus eof Lauren Bacall and she has a pap too. xD


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> Really? I'm not too fond of Mia's snout. It's rather snippy in the muzzle. I wish her head was a bit broader.


I like a slightly thinner muzzle. Some paps have very rounded and "big" snouts. I think it looks refined. Mia's is a little extra thin and long but I kind of like that general shape.


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I like a slightly thinner muzzle. Some paps have very rounded and "big" snouts. I think it looks refined. Mia's is a little extra thin and long but I kind of like that general shape.


I think it contributes to the way she looks like she's constantly up to something lol. Her dad had the same long nose too.










At least I know where the nose came from!

ETA: Here's that nose!


----------



## Lil RiRi

I wish we could see new pics of Mia.  Chloe reminds me of Mia with her crazy antics. Riley was growing fringe pretty nicely until we got Chloe. She loves to bite it and his tail. I try to prevent it, but I guess, its inevitable. Riley is getting a tooth removed tomorrow that never seemed to want to come, so Chloe and I will be home by ourselves. I am going to try and take some pics of how crazy she is. Is there any advice as far as Riley before the surgery? We are seeing a new vet and we've talked about the sensitivity papillons have when going under. But, is there anything I should make sure he knows before hand?


----------



## Laurelin

All I know is Summer reacted really badly to propofol. I'm not sure if that's just her or a breed thing though.

You can google papillon sensitivity to anesthesia and come up with some stuff too.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Hmm I don't know, are Papillons supposed to have a bit rounder nose? I was looking at the breed standard and it doesn't say too much.



> The muzzle is fine, abruptly thinner than the head, tapering to the nose. The length of the muzzle from the tip of the nose to stop is approximately one-third the length of the head from tip of nose to occiput


I don't know where the occiput is LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Lil RiRi said:


> I wish we could see new pics of Mia.  Chloe reminds me of Mia with her crazy antics. Riley was growing fringe pretty nicely until we got Chloe. She loves to bite it and his tail. I try to prevent it, but I guess, its inevitable.


I totally understand! We have 2 new puppies around here and they LOVE to play! They also love to bite and hang onto Nia's fringe or tail because that's all that they can catch LOL One of them would take Nia's fringe and wouldn't let go no matter what! They end up kind of hanging from Nia's ear/fringe


----------



## Lil RiRi

I googled some earlier and was going to bring in this article: http://www.papillonclub.org/index.p...r-toy-dogs&catid=59:health-articles&Itemid=99

Rileys vet in Louisiana was so good and we had no issues. I've found it very hard to find a good vet here that isn't just after our money. So, I try and be overprepared before a visit!

Also, so, it's not just words.. 








I was taking a picture of Chloe's dress for my mom and Riley had to sneak one more sniff and ruined the picture!


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Hmm I don't know, are Papillons supposed to have a bit rounder nose? I was looking at the breed standard and it doesn't say too much.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where the occiput is LOL


Occupit is just the back of the skull. 

http://www.bernspring.co.uk/images/Dog_parts.jpg

length of the muzzle should be 1/3 the length of the entire skull. Mia's is a little long if you measure.

This is about my ideal head:










Her name is Diane and she's owned by the Braylors.


----------



## Laurelin

For people interested in conformation:

http://www.judgesl.com/Papillon/index.html

That's a great site.


----------



## Nargle

Laurelin said:


> Occupit is just the back of the skull.
> 
> http://www.bernspring.co.uk/images/Dog_parts.jpg
> 
> length of the muzzle should be 1/3 the length of the entire skull. Mia's is a little long if you measure.
> 
> This is about my ideal head:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her name is Diane and she's owned by the Braylors.


I was actually just wondering about this, lol! I though it was weird that I've seen Paps with short teddy-bear-ish muzzles like a Pomeranian or a Chihuahua, and then there are Paps like Mia! So I'm guessing something in the middle is preferred?

BTW, Diane is absolutely beautiful


----------



## yappypappymom

Ok, so...I found my SD card...it was IN MY LAPTOP the ENTIRE time!! What a DUMMY I am *looks sheepish*

Today was a GREAT day too! Got these pics in the front yard, then, later we went to the park (FORGOT the cam. though)...Leif had a BLAST!! He encountered his first lake enterance, &, I was not expecting him to do much with it, but, before I knew it, he was splashing all over the place! - LOL - it was a hoot!!...no pics of it though, BUT...I will remedy that for the next time!!

As for THESE pics...NO, I DO NOT have "neon" grass!! Just how the pics turned out.

































































ETA...he NOT look like a "baby no more" *wahhhhh..kicks foot* ~LOL~ BUT, he IS growing some "crazy hair" here & there..not really working on his ears much though!! I am gonna have a nice, long talk w/him about his too!! *winks*


----------



## lucidity

Yay! Leif! OMG he's so big now!!! All grown up!! I can't believe he's the same puppy, lol. Yes, please post photos of the dogpark next time


----------



## yappypappymom

lucidity said:


> Yay! Leif! OMG he's so big now!!! All grown up!! I can't believe he's the same puppy, lol. Yes, please post photos of the dogpark next time


  Thanks Lucidity! All this time, I thought my SD card MAY have been stolen AGAIN, BUT..I found it tucked into my computer!!  I feel like Cpt. Doofus!! HAHAHA!! The park was HILARIOUS too! He LOVED the water, &, the oddest thing was that, after he hopped into the water, his legs appeared to turn into popsicle sticks!! They are awfuly tiny! Again,he is only 5lbs, so, he has a LOT of camoflauge to cover up his teeny, tiny body! Also, at the park, I got the suprise of MY life....I NEVER KNEW that he had such a HUGE "pee reserve" ~ LOL....silly boys
Since its spring break here for my daughter, & my DH has vacation this week too, we are planning LOTS more "doggie adventures"...the beach is next!!....camera WILL be ready too!!


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## lucidity

yappypappymom said:


> Thanks Lucidity! All this time, I thought my SD card MAY have been stolen AGAIN, BUT..I found it tucked into my computer!!  I feel like Cpt. Doofus!! HAHAHA!! The park was HILARIOUS too! He LOVED the water, &, the oddest thing was that, after he hopped into the water, his legs appeared to turn into popsicle sticks!! They are awfuly tiny! Again,he is only 5lbs, so, he has a LOT of camoflauge to cover up his teeny, tiny body! Also, at the park, I got the suprise of MY life....I NEVER KNEW that he had such a HUGE "pee reserve" ~ LOL....silly boys
> Since its spring break here for my daughter, & my DH has vacation this week too, we are planning LOTS more "doggie adventures"...the beach is next!!....camera WILL be ready too!!


LOL!! That's hilarious.. so that's where all your SD cards went! Eaten by your computer... haha. I can't believe Leif is only 5lbs! That's super tiiinnyyy. You're right though, his puffy fur hides his skinny body, lol.

Anyway, Cadence's breeder sent me photos of him as a little itty bitty baby today and....... I JUST HAD TO SHARE!! 









Awwwww... Floppy ears! And wow, he used to have a HUGE blaze.









Is it just me, or does he look chubby here? Lol.









Here's another photo of his dad.. He's 5 months in this picture.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow! Leif puffed up really quickly!! 

I love Pap puppies! They look like fat little piggies! So cute and squishy looking. Cadence's dad looks really mature at 5 months! He looks all grown up.

Nia used to have a really big blaze too, actually I think Mia did too. Now all our pups have a thin line hehe


----------



## lucidity

I know!! Pap puppies so don't look like paps at all.. lol. And yeah, Cadence's Dad looks so much older than 5 months there! And I used to think that they look alike.. now I don't see much of a similarity anymore, lol.

Lol, it's funny how all their blazes seemed to disappear along the way!


----------



## Lil RiRi

AWW. LEIF is so fluffy! He's so cute. Cadence's dad does really look a lot maturer. Chloe is almost 6 months old and still looks very puppy like. I hope her blaze gets smaller. Her's is pretty big. Riley had the smallest blaze when he was a puppy. Now, its turned darker than the rest of his hair and he has none.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia's blaze pretty much settled around 6-7 months old. I really LOVE Chloe's blaze though, I wanted a Pap with a bigger blaze but then Nia's faded away LOL.


----------



## lucidity

Lol, aww!! Riley looks SO CUTE in that baby photo! I love puppy pictures. They always make me smile 

Haha, I also love paps with huge blazes! I think Leif has hands down the biggest blaze of all..


----------



## PappyMom

Just a quick one of Roxy from our Puggy playdate on Saturday. There were about 40 pugs, a mini doxie, a pomeranian, boston terrier, and Roxy. She did great and wasn't as nervous as she usually is..She's been approaching the other dogs on her own, and trying to play with a few. She's still nervous of the super hyper in your face dogs, but really making progress..

Here's the princess, Lily and Roxy had matching dresses that day. =P










I'll make a seperate thread for other photos from that day, if anyone's interested.


----------



## proudmama

Hi everyone I'm new to the site. Great to see so many papillon lovers out there. I have 5 lovely babies. Sami is 3 years and he is a monster at 12 pounds but he is the love of my life. Later we looked for a better breeder and found our lovely Kylie on a coownership. We call her kylie wylie cause she is soo sneaky like wylie coyote. And now we have 3 babies Kylie is the mom and the dad is a great dog in dallas. Kylies other owner will be taking our little girl BeBe prounouced baybay and I will be keeping her brother Mickey (mouse) lol and we are still looking for a loving home for Romeo...but if we dont find one im not opposed to keeping him all to myself. They bring such joy to my life. I love comming home and being greeted by everyone and the puppies have really calmed sami down. He is such a proud stepdad. Sami can really smile..as a matter of fact my hubby put him smiling on a coffee cup for my birthday what a wonderful pic to see each morning. Well i guess ive babbled enough time for me to show off my babies....hope yall enjoy
oh no i dont know how it says insert url....is there a way to add pics from my computer???


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## Michiyo-Fir

Wow 5 Paps! Laurelin you'd better watch out! Love your babies! They're so pretty!


----------



## proudmama

Thanks I forgot to post the pic of sami smiling...I think yall might enjoy it...and yes im from Louisiana lol....oh and i posted one of kylie at xmas...


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## proudmama

And i guess I can t leave out the pups father considering he is part of my extended family ...This is Milo..


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## Michiyo-Fir

I love Kylie! I want a hound tri Pap as well! And geez, Milo is absolutely stunning! How old is he?


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## Laurelin

5 and a hound tri! I'm in love! 

You're in good company. My family also has 5 papillons. 

Where'd you get your paps? Just curious. The hound tri (Kylie? I think) looks a LOT like Mia and her brothers and sisters.


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## Laurelin

Here's a pic of Dallas, Mia's brother. Kylie looks so much like him!


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## proudmama

I co own kylie with bridget bell from the dallas area. Milo is also her dog and he is three years old. Yes kylie does look alot like Dallas. Her Father is Miko also owned by Bridget. I was very lucky to find her. Kylie has a perfect heart on her side, and Romeo was born with it as well, he looks alot like Kylie here is Kylies heart and Romeo's as a baby (p.s) I hope im posting these right...


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## Laurelin

Awww, that is adorable. Mia is from the Braylors who are also in Texas.


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## proudmama

You so have beautiful dogs....and just to say you take great pics....


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## lucidity

Yay more paps!! 

Cran, have you picked your new Klee Kai up yet?? I can't wait for pictures!!


----------



## Lil RiRi

Here is a cute video of Chloe playing with some of her toys! She loves to drag a million toys out of her basket. Pls mind the trash bag lol It's full of clothes we are donating.  Riley is not phased by her tennis ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LtsPPCh5c0


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## lucidity

Lol, that is too cute!! Riley looks all like he doesn't know what to do with this annoying kid running around everywhere.. haha


----------



## proudmama

that video was cute...i want a black and white with a big blaze one day


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## Laurelin

Omg, that was the cutest video ever. My two are playing just like that right now. I love watching papillons play.


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## Laurelin

Btw, I'm coming to steal Chloe!


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## LaurenE

Laurelin said:


> Omg, that was the cutest video ever. My two are playing just like that right now. I love watching papillons play.


I see you live in Texas too! If you're near Dallas we should have a papillon play date!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I feel like Nia's finally growing some hair after I looked at the beach pics from yesterday. She looks completely grown up now, no more puppy 

A couple from yesterday that I didn't post in the other thread.

Hairy!









After beach trip she became fixated on a bird sound from the tree in the parking lot









Profile









close up









Edit: She's 1 year and 4 months old now! I can't believe it. Puppy growing up


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## lucidity

Woww.. she sure is FLUFFY!! Lol. Cadence finally stopped shedding but he's all skinny and not furry anymore now.. Lol. Anyway, I *might* be bringing Cadence to Steveston tomorrow to enjoy the sunshine! I'll PM you if I'm going and maybe you can bring Nia along


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Cadence stopped shedding already?!?! Nia's still shedding quite a bit. But I don't even notice it anymore lol. Other people have told me she leaves a bunch of hair on their clothes and that's how I know


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## lucidity

Yes, finally... ughh... I'm tired of lint rolling EVERYTHING I own! Lol, he's been shedding for a full month now.. about time it ended! Haha.. when did Nia start shedding? You're going to see fur in your food soon.......


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia went for a dip today in the ocean and got pretty dirty!









Really bad picture but look how dirty her legs are!









I never thought she would be one to wade into the water since she HATES baths. But I guess she will do anything for a ball.


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## lucidity

Lol, sand everywhere!!! Did she actually go in swim? 

I didn't end up going to Steveston today  My friends were feeling lazy. Hopefully it'll still be sunny by next week! I hate not having a car...


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## Michiyo-Fir

Nope she didn't swim. She just waded in and waded out lol. I don't think swimming is or ever will be her thing.

There were tons of dogs around Steveston today! And Nia was being a total PITA about it. She was so loud and annoying today because we went with another dog and for some reasons the more dogs we go with, the louder and less focused she becomes.


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## lucidity

I bet the water was FREEZING.. lol..

Aww, man. I wish I coulda gone! What I wouldn't give to have a car right now.. haha. I bet Cadence would lovelovelove Nia.. haha, he doesn't have any Papillon friends here! Is the beach there a doggie beach?


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## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> I bet the water was FREEZING.. lol..
> 
> Aww, man. I wish I coulda gone! What I wouldn't give to have a car right now.. haha. I bet Cadence would lovelovelove Nia.. haha, he doesn't have any Papillon friends here! Is the beach there a doggie beach?


The water wasn't too bad actually. I had to go in because the ball floated away and Nia couldn't swim to it LOL! It's not a dog beach but a lot of people are there with their dogs. It's not a designated dog park kind of place though. If it was, I can't take Nia because she would be too reactive and barking and charging at every dog.

Nia doesn't have any Papillon friends either! I've seen like 2 Papillons but they were from far away and we never got to meet.


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## Lil RiRi

Man, Nia is so fluffy! Riley is basically bald. I hope now that he is healthy and has no issues that he starts to fluff out. He's finally growing out his hair from when he was neutered and they had to shave him belly to find his missing testicle.  Aww. 

Anyone can come and get Chloe! I can't stop her from barking. She came to us without a peep. One vet visit and now she is the barkiest thing. She doesnt bark in the house, but if someone comes over and doesnt immediately pick her up she barks. She barks as soon as we leave the house, at people, at dogs, at sounds, at everything! I've tried to redirect her attention, but her attention is too strong. I guess, I need to get a really smelly treat that is super delicious. For now, I have to feel embarrassed about my barky dog.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Poor Riley, how long ago did he get his belly shaved? Nia got her belly shaved for spaying around 7 months old and it didn't grow back until she was more than a year old! Actually if you look carefully the hair on her shaved belly part is still thinner than everywhere else! And it's uneven too LOL 

I'm still embarrassed at my barky dog! But she's only barky at other dogs, it's so hard to fix! I hope you do better with Chloe! She's a real cutie though. Does she get Riley started on barking too? For some reasons when Nia barks all the dogs we know that play together start barking as well! That can't be good!


----------



## Lil RiRi

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Poor Riley, how long ago did he get his belly shaved? Nia got her belly shaved for spaying around 7 months old and it didn't grow back until she was more than a year old! Actually if you look carefully the hair on her shaved belly part is still thinner than everywhere else! And it's uneven too LOL
> 
> I'm still embarrassed at my barky dog! But she's only barky at other dogs, it's so hard to fix! I hope you do better with Chloe! She's a real cutie though. Does she get Riley started on barking too? For some reasons when Nia barks all the dogs we know that play together start barking as well! That can't be good!


Around six or seven months. It seems as if his pants keep growing, but no where else. His tail is pretty great. His fringe was doing ok. But, the rest pretty much sucks.  

Riley is really a mellow dog. He gets excited when ppl come over and thats about it. So, the rare time he barks or growls in excitment (yeah, he does this - its like pls come pet me) then Chloe gets started. If she barks Riley kind of looks ashamed. lol Like you are giving us a bad rep! These ppl were like omg what kind of dogs are those? But, Riley was going crazy. The guy came to speak to us about them, but Chloe really drove him off.


----------



## Crantastic

Do any of you use Buster Cubes or any of the other treat-dispensing toys? I'd like to get one, but the only ones I've seen in stores here are big. Which ones are the best for little dogs?


----------



## Laurelin

I like the tug a jug but she empties it really quickly even though it's really too big for her.


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## lucidity

Hmm.. I've never seen this in stores.. did you have to order it online? It looks pretty interesting. Cadence might like it since the kong is too tough for him.. yeah, he gives up really quickly =/


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## Crantastic

I love it when Crystal really takes off running!



My messy backyard is like an obstacle course, haha. Ignore the junk -- we haven't cleaned it up for spring quite yet.


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## lucidity

Lol!! Crystal is so fluffy! And wow, now I know what you mean about PEI and red soil  My mom's hometown looks exactly like that too, though half a world away..

I just got Cadence a tug-a-jug an hour ago (holy moly, $12.99 for that small jug! I think I could make one =/) and ... he doesn't seem to have any idea what to do with it, lol. I have to keep helping him get the treats out. If he doesn't get it in a couple of days to a week I'll probably return it..


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## Crantastic

I ordered a treat ball online, and the shipping was more than the ball itself! I hope my dogs enjoy it.

I was taking pictures of the puppy today, and I looked over to see this:










Doesn't she look utterly bored? Poor Crystal.


----------



## Laurelin

Am I the only one who thinks Crystal and Summer could pass for sisters?


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## Crantastic

No, I think that all the time when I look at your pictures! They're so similar in coloring and markings and ear size and everything. I wish you lived closer so we could get a picture of them together!


----------



## Laurelin

Crantastic said:


> No, I think that all the time when I look at your pictures! They're so similar in coloring and markings and ear size and everything. I wish you lived closer so we could get a picture of them together!


I know! The markings are sooo close, it's unreal. Crystal's blaze is straighter but the black on the ears, the way the red fades on the cheeks. Crystal has much tamer hair than summer though, lol. Summer has wild child hair that is super wavy.


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal's cheeks are very light. I wonder if she's going to end up with frosting like her grandmother, Vixen (who's 10 now):










Crystal's mom and dad don't show any signs of it, though.


----------



## libbyanddarci

Here is my little girl Liberty AKA Libby.She is such a cuddle bug and I would have 50 if i could. Paps have the best personalities.


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## Michiyo-Fir

waaah super cute! How old is Libby?

Btw, how old was Vixen in that picture? She really frosted a LOT!

Crystal's mom is Nia's grandma, does that make Crystal Nia's aunt?


----------



## Laurelin

Libby is adorable! I love the nose freckles. I agree, they have the best personalities. I love paps so much. Can't imagine not having at least one around.

I can't tell if summer is light on her cheeks because of greying or what. It just kind of fades from red to white gradually.

Here's Summer's (And Rose's) mom:










Summer at 2 before I got her:










You can see she's already light on the cheeks.


----------



## Laurelin




----------



## Crantastic

I took that pic of Vixen a couple months ago. She's 10.  Yeah, she's completely silver.

I think it's neat that Crystal and Nia are related!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

THIS is why we need another dog! Nia LOOOOVES other dogs and Denny was only staying over for about 2 hours. She was snuggling all over him and laid down ON him, with her face in his chest. I'll bet she would do really well with a companion.










She's lying on top of his paws.









Oh and a picture of Nia's grandpa that I found recently. I don't like his head much, but I love his coat.









Summer and Roses's mom looks a little like Beau in terms of markings and color!
Laurelin, did you get your camera back yet?


----------



## lucidity

Awww haha, it looks like Nia wishes she were small enough to fit on Denny's paws LOL.. I'll upload photos soon! Been fiddling around with my new camera the past couple of days 

Poor Cadence is still trying to get his kibble out of the tug-a-jug but it's not working so far, haha. I have photos of that too!

Btw, I DO think that Summer and Crystal look really alike! Are you guys sure they're not related at all? lol!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Do any of your Paps do this?? Sorry about the hair, our vacuum exploded here LOL and we tried to vacuum up the dust and stuff with a small handheld one but it didn't get the hair. We're going to go buy one ASAP but it's my exam season and I haven't done it yet.









Nia constantly tears paper. Actually so much so that now we leave our cardboard boxes from toothpaste, toilet paper rolls, etc. for her to tear up. When we removed all of it and put down tons and tons of toys our walls were chewed. She loves playing wiht toys but doesn't like chewing them.

After chewing all that paper, she's now feeling very good about herself and sleeping.









She's content after her daily destruction 









Oops, woke her up. She's definitely looking grumpy!









In 4 more days Nia will be 17 months old!


----------



## libbyanddarci

Thanks! Libby will be 2 on the 4th of july, which is why her name is Liberty. She has a sister(darri) but shes not a pap..she's a lhaso bischon and they are best buds. I think Libby would drive me crazy with her energy if she didn't have darci.

How does your pap deal with the car? Libby begins to shake when she sees her seat belt and she will run away from the car if we are going somewhere. She used to get sick after 5 minutes when we first got her but she has gotten much better and is usually fine once we are in the car.


----------



## PappyMom

Wow, I think I got the luck of the draw with Roxy.. She doesn't bark, she doesn't destroy anything, she's low-energy, and she has no fear/anxieties (anymore).. In just a month, we were able to get her over her dog-fear, and now she runs like crazy at the DP and plays. She still likes some dogs more than others, but no more yelping and running away.

I have new pics for you guys too, but I misplaced my camera, somewhere..and am now frustrated! Roxy's growing up soo beautiful..

Can you believe she's gone from this:









To this?:










BTW! Big welcome to the DF Pappy Gang, Libby!! How cuteeee!!


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Do any of your Paps do this?? Sorry about the hair, our vacuum exploded here LOL and we tried to vacuum up the dust and stuff with a small handheld one but it didn't get the hair. We're going to go buy one ASAP but it's my exam season and I haven't done it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nia constantly tears paper. Actually so much so that now we leave our cardboard boxes from toothpaste, toilet paper rolls, etc. for her to tear up. When we removed all of it and put down tons and tons of toys our walls were chewed. She loves playing wiht toys but doesn't like chewing them.


Yes, Mia does that, but the only difference is Mia would have gone for that charger cable first. I HAVE to lock her up or else she will tear up my stuff- paper, trash, shoes, cords, underwear... The other day I decided to be gone just a minute and left her out and came back to find my room terrorized and my stuff all shredded. I really dont know how she does that!

Nard also tears up things.. just carpet and fake floral arrangements. 

Mia gets sick in the car or used to at least. On very long drives she still does on occasion but never on short drives anymore. She loves to go but is afraid to jump in the car because she fell on her head once as a puppy and it made her cry. So now I have to pick her up to load her up.  Summer would ride around in the car all day, she LOVES it. Mia likes it when you crack the windows.

I just like this pic:


----------



## Laurelin

Here's one of Mia's smaller messes:










My supermodel little dog:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Good to know other Paps make messes too! Nia will go for cables depending on which ones. She destroyed a pair of my $200 ear buds. She chewed the ear pieces and ate them... all that's left were the internal metal drivers O_O And then a few days later she killed the cord of my $500 headphones which were sitting on top of my piano as well, I have no idea how she got them off. Thankfully the cord was replaceable so I got it replaced. She's selective about her cords though. The camera charger one she won't touch but cellphone chargers she will. Weird dog.

It's hilarious when dogs chew underwear and there's holes in it. But it's good that it teaches people not to leave their undies lying around on the floor! Nia also loves pens. Every single pen in my house has like no cap or no bottom because she chewed it off. I don't know how she does it but she puts her paws on the table and pokes around until pens fall off and then she chews them. 

By the way I LOVE that last picture of Summer.

Nia was never car sick and she likes jumping into the car. She did fall once as well though. she fell from the passenger seat to the floor where you put your feet. Now whenever she's on the passenger side she's terrified LOL She mostly rides on my mom's lap when she's driving.


----------



## lucidity

Lol, Cadence is afraid of paper. -__-"" He's so weird. He's afraid of noisy inanimate objects, but he has no fear of huge dogs, dogs who attack him, and scary looking humans. But if he were to shred paper, he's DEFINITELY not let those pieces of paper go to waste! He'd be eating everything. Yup.

Haha, Michi, I'm amazed that Nia has never gotten sick from chewing all those things!  She must really have an iron tummy, lol.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to get Cadence to stop eating crap from the ground when we're out. I haven't brought him to the park to play in a while because I'm just so tired having to watch him like a hawk so that he doesn't pick up random crap to eat.

Do you guys think getting a 30ft leash will work? I'm thinking I can let him play with the other dogs with that on and if he picks something up, I can reel him in and give a correction. I'm kinda worried that the dogs will get tangled up in a 30ft leash, though.


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal is afraid of the weirdest things... baby dolls, balloons, large handbags. She's not afraid of parades (complete with bagpipes and blaring fire truck sirens), bison, fireworks, thunderstorms, baseball games, horse races, or outdoor concerts.

Also, she eats rubber things... that's her material of choice. She's somewhat interested in wood and not at all in paper, but if there is one little piece of a rubber ball in my yard, she will find and consume it.


----------



## PappyMom

Here's some new ones..I finally found my camera!! Roxy's gnawing on a chewie right now, and she's been that way since 5:00, it's now 6:12...love those chewies!!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> Do you guys think getting a 30ft leash will work? I'm thinking I can let him play with the other dogs with that on and if he picks something up, I can reel him in and give a correction. I'm kinda worried that the dogs will get tangled up in a 30ft leash, though.


We have a 20ft that I use for park trips and my gosh if we see play with other dogs she'll run and get flipped because she reached the end of her line. O_O Also all the other dogs get tangled into it. I don't think it'll work very well lol.

I've stopped even caring about what Nia eats on our walks. She eats tons and tons of stuff. If she's playing outside it looks like this. Run run run, eat a flower. Run run run, eat some sticks. Run run run, eat a mosquito. Run run run, eat some leaves.

Surprisingly Nia isn't afraid of objects. She doesn't like water bottles but that's it. If it's windy out everything can be flapping around but she doesn't care at all. She barks at other dogs. I don't know what I like better, fear of dogs, or fear of random objects LOL.

Roxy is looking so pretty~ You really landed on a good one! Doesn't destroy and no barking is great!


----------



## lucidity

Yikes.. okay, I guess I won't be getting the long leash then  If it doesn't get better soon I might have to get one of those Citronella collars to deter him from eating crap! I wouldn't care either, but Cadence is always throwing up/having diarrhea from eating crap. Sigh. Lol, you should take a photo of Nia eating a flower. It'll look so funny!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

The thing is she doesn't chew them. She breaks them off with one bite and then shakes them violently. Then she swallows them. Don't worry, I'll be taking LOTS of pictures when it gets a little brighter at night. We walk dogs at 7:30 and right now 7:30 is too dark for pictures. In the summer I'll be bringing my camera to our walks/dog play dates. There's going to be 10-15 dogs chasing each other hehe.


----------



## Lil RiRi

Just one..


----------



## Crantastic

I'm angry today... I've been working with Crystal to cut down on her dog-reactivity and she's been doing great, ignoring some dogs altogether and only quietly growling at others when before she would have barked and lunged. She's even politely met a lot of dogs lately. Then today while we were out walking, a big black lab came tearing out of its yard, growling, and tried to attack Casper. Crystal jumped in between them and the lab lunged at her instead. I had to grab his collar and lift his front feet clear off the ground (as he continued to growl) until the owner could come and take him. This happened at the beginning of the hour-long walk, and for the rest of the hour, Crystal barked and lunged at every dog we saw, including a border collie who was half a block away and completely ignoring her and a blonde mutt that barked and wagged its tail happily from its yard. I hate that one stupid incident can set her back like this. 

I also hate that I don't feel safe walking with my little dogs, even in broad daylight on quiet streets. I wish I'd gotten my doberman, like I'd wanted to, instead of a klee kai. Do you guys get into situations like this often? We've had quite a few dogs run at us in the past couple of years, although this was the first truly aggressive one.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh my gosh I totally understand what you're going through. Nia was doing really well with reactivity a few weeks ago as well. Our distance to another dog can be quite close and she would be fine unless the other dog got TOO close to us. Until we went to the beach one day and a playful dog bounded over to nudge her and body slam her. Nia HATES other dogs poking or nudging her and she got very upset. After that, her reactivity went waaay up and now even a block away she'll bark and lunge and whine. Honestly, it only takes one situation like this to make a nonreactive puppy reactive for a long long time. We have quite a lot of situations like this around here but as long as the new dog doesn't bounce all over Nia or poke her a lot, Nia is pretty much happy to bark at them a few times, sniff and wag, a few licks and she's fine. It's only when dogs nudge her then she gets scared. All the dogs we've met are very friendly though. Even if they've pinned her down or something, they are all playing and not trying to hurt anyone but situations like that can really really intimidate Nia. All the aggressive dogs we've met were on leash.

I don't feel unsafe walking with a small dog though. I never felt unsafe walking without a dog so I don't really know what you mean.


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## Crantastic

I don't feel unsafe walking alone in general, but I do worry about walking with my two little dogs -- I worry for their safety, not mine. Crystal and I have been charged by loose dogs quite a few times, and luckily they've mostly been friendly... but today's incident reminded me of how vulnerable small dogs are. If I hadn't been able to grab the dog before he got to Crystal, or if this owner's second dog (which was also loose but just watched from the edge of its yard) had charged as well, I would have been in trouble.

My last dog was a 100-pound malamute/collie. When loose dogs would charge him, he would silently stare them down and they would _always_ back off -- and if they hadn't, I'm sure he could have held his own. I didn't have to worry about him being hurt or killed, whereas I do with my little ones. It's hard to enjoy a walk when I have to be on alert all the time.


----------



## Nargle

Laurelin said:


> Here's one of Mia's smaller messes:


Lol, I feel so blessed that Basil isn't destructive at all. He doesn't get into anything! He's such a good boy. He won't even touch a plate full of food if I set it on the couch  It DOES make finding toys for him that he'll actually be interested in a daunting task, though, lol!

A random update on Basil, just for the heck of it. Here's a pic of one of our recent trips to the lake. Unfortunately, it got a little too hot for the little guy, and we walked just a tad too far, lol! My boyfriend had to carry him the last 5 minutes or so because he was plain tuckered out!


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## lucidity

Aww.. poor Basil!! He looks SUPER tired, lol.


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## Crantastic

Look who was Grown-Up Puppy of the day at Dailypuppy.com!

http://www.dailypuppy.com/dogs/crystal-the-papillon_2010-04-26

Seems like the picture of her with the kittens is the most popular among the commenters.


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## Laurelin

I call this how to make a mia:


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## Michiyo-Fir

Poor Basil! He looks completely pooped! 

The Daily Puppy, I love that website! There are so many cute dogs with great stories 

Wow that's amazing Laurelin! You actually found pictures of all the dogs in Mia's pedigree?? I can't seem to find most of Nia's that are older than her grandparents! Her mom's line is not well known though, that's probably why. I love it though! Are you going to make a picture pedigree tree for the rest of your Paps?


----------



## Crantastic

Aww, Basil is so cute all tired out. It takes a lot to get them to that point!

Laurelin, that must have taken ages to make! It's really neat to actually see all of the dogs in Mia's pedigree. I recognize some of them from the breeder's site. Are you going to do Summer's next?

I took a video today... Crystal is being a jerk and not wanting to let anyone else play with the new Atomic Treat Ball (which is Casper's, not even hers). And haha, note that at 49 seconds in when I ask Crystal to sit, Fynne the cat sits, too... I taught all of the cats to sit a while back.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

woah! Did all your kitties sit when you said sit???


----------



## Terrie

Awesome video!

Kitty's like "hmm...maybe if I poke it, like so, I dunno, this contraption is a little strange.."

Then Crystal comes in: "Lemme try! Lemme try! You're doing it all wrong!!!" 

And Casper says: "I wanna try tooo!!!"

And other kitties: "Those three are so easily amused."


----------



## lucidity

Lol! I love how your kitty seems to be pondering VERY HARD trying to figure out what the ball's all about, and Crystal's all like "I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I can't believe they all sit so well, though! Especially the kittie  I thought they were supposed to be stubborn and all "what's in it for me?", lol.


----------



## Crantastic

I taught all the cats to sit the same way I taught the dogs... with treats over their heads, haha. Here's a video from when I was doing it. They're not 100%, but they will sit on command almost all of the time if I have food, and even sometimes when I don't. 

Crystal LOVES the treat ball. When I first gave it to Casper, she watched him paw it for a few minutes, then ran over, smacked it with her paw and sent food flying everywhere. It was (to my knowledge) the first time she'd ever seen one.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia loves to randomly get onto this coffee table and just lie there.










She even pushed off all the batteries so she has enough space. 










Big ears.









She's recently learnt that whenever she hears the camera click, she should close her eyes because it's probably going to flash. Now she even does it outside in normal light. Urgg, always closed eyed pictures!


----------



## Crantastic

Aww, she looks so cute on the table! 

And yeah, I never use flash on animals... which means I have a lot of pictures in my living room (and specifically armchair) because that's the only room in the house that gets enough decent natural light, heh!


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## LaurenE

Here's a few of Tristan and Trinity at the dog park yesterday. Tristan is sporting his new camo harness lol.


----------



## proudmama

Hi everyone i know its been a week or soo since ive commented . just catching up. Love all the new pics everyone has posted and glad to see that my dogs arent the only ones who love paper...They chewed up my people magazine before i could read it. guess they like celebrity gossip too. I figured i d post some new pics of the puppies. I made a photo collage free at walgreens for mothers day they had an online special. In it you can see Romeo who learned how to smile. Mickey surrounded by a heart and BeBe now called Skyler in her new home in Maine with butterflies around her head..
along with some older christmas photos of kylie and sami.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Great pics! I'm glad Tristan and Trinity are getting along great! 

Skyler and Mickey have such interesting markings! I'd love to see how they look when they grow up.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

A few bloopers from the other day










Too bright









I thought this was cute


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## LaurenE

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Great pics! I'm glad Tristan and Trinity are getting along great!


Well, unfortunately they aren't really getting along so great. That picture of them together was kind of a fluke, Tristan ran to get in the pic and Trinity immediately ran away. Trinity just doesn't seem to like other dogs, or cats, at all really. At home, she pretty much stays in her crate all day except to charge out of it to chase away any cat that tries to come into the room. Theres alot to explain so I think I will start another post about it so as not to hijack this one.


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## PappyMom

Lauren, Tristan and Trinity are terribly cute. Trinity is totally beautiful. What problems are you having with them? This thread has been hijacked soo many times, I wouldn't even worry about it, lmao! 

No new Roxy pictures yet, guys, but I promise that I will get some!! She needs to be groomed, but this constant rain is making that hard to do.

And BTW guys, I'm off to look at some maltese puppies tomorrow.. LOL, I have puppy fever so bad, and it is going to take everything out of me just to keep my composure and not rush into anything..lol.


----------



## Papilove

Bouncing this up for other new papillon owners who might want to see the enormous amount of gorgeous papillon pics in here.


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## LaurenE

PappyMom said:


> Lauren, Tristan and Trinity are terribly cute. Trinity is totally beautiful. What problems are you having with them? This thread has been hijacked soo many times, I wouldn't even worry about it, lmao!
> 
> No new Roxy pictures yet, guys, but I promise that I will get some!! She needs to be groomed, but this constant rain is making that hard to do.
> 
> And BTW guys, I'm off to look at some maltese puppies tomorrow.. LOL, I have puppy fever so bad, and it is going to take everything out of me just to keep my composure and not rush into anything..lol.


Well it basically came down to Trinity just really doesn't like other dogs? And her and Tristan were getting into fights where she was drawing blood so I had to keep them seperated, especially after she bit me pretty badly when I was breaking up one of the fights. She just seemed really...unhappy. I know a lady who volunteers for the Papillon Club of America Rescue Trust and she offered to take her and said they could place her in a home with no other dogs, so last weekend I surrendered her to them. I felt horrible, like I failed her, but from what I hear she is doing really well in her new foster home and Tristan is definitely much happier.


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## PappyMom

Aww, don't feel like you failed her. You did what was best for both dogs! Some dogs are just not good matches. I fostered a puggle, who hated Gizmo for a while, and that was such a job, I wouldn't wish that on a permanent basis to anyone.


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## Michiyo-Fir

I just really liked this pic


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## owned-by-paps

* I think I found where I will be reading for the next ~ however~ long * 

Before I try and read it all, here is a couple of you-tubes I made a while back with my two terrors 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgAoB04Xck ( frodo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAATorjDkKs ( sam)


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## LaurenE

PappyMom said:


> Aww, don't feel like you failed her. You did what was best for both dogs! Some dogs are just not good matches. I fostered a puggle, who hated Gizmo for a while, and that was such a job, I wouldn't wish that on a permanent basis to anyone.


Thanks . I'm down to just one dog now. At first Trinity was really targeting Charlie, so he went to stay with my parents while I tried to work with her. Her previous owner had said that if it didn't work out she would take her back but yeah, she really didn't want anything more to do with her so returning her wasn't an option. I was lucky to find the rescue group I did, because none of the other ones I talked to were willing to take a dog that had any history of aggression towards people or other dogs, and I wasn't willing to take her to a shelter. Of course, my parents ended up falling in love with Charlie and he has bonded to their other dogs and they've asked me if they can keep him and I'm going to say yes. I would still really love to get another papillon. I've contacted some of the breeders in my area to find out about any puppies or young adults they have available. I would love to have a hound tri so we'll see .


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## Laurelin

Do you have any more pics of Frodo? He looks sooo much like Mia's brothers!


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## Papilove

Ah, I love Frodo's "mud puppy" routine, he's adorable, and that little Frodo in a bag with the look of total annoyance on his face was priceless. In Sam's video, the SKUNKDOGS was such a cute shot.


----------



## owned-by-paps

yup I have more of frodo; will up load to this thread when I get the chance later on  .. & 'skunk dogs' was classic! I bought those costumes for a doggy rescue party; they HATED them LOL. On a side note, I see u-tube removed the sound track from frodos vid :/ ahh welll..


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## Nargle

Basil is a big dork 


















Apparently it was too cold for him, lol!


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## Lil RiRi

Poor Chloe! She was miserable day one, day two was fine, and now day three is back to being miserable. She has become skiddish. She runs (not super fast, of course) to me randomly. I don't know if she is in pain or whats going on. I give her a pain pill in the middle of the day to prevent the pain. But, I am calling the vet in the morning to see what the deal is.


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## Laurelin

Awww poor Chloe!


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## Papilove

hahaha aw don't call Basil a dork, he's adorable. heehee.

Poor Chloe, I hope she's feeling better. What happened to her in the first place?


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## Lil RiRi

Papilove said:


> hahaha aw don't call Basil a dork, he's adorable. heehee.
> 
> Poor Chloe, I hope she's feeling better. What happened to her in the first place?


Oh, she was just spayed.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Basil is so cute in all those blankets!

Poor Chloe...I hope she's feeling better too! Nia was only sad for 2 days and by the 3rd day se was running around like a nut again >.< Chloe and the cone of shame


----------



## yappypappymom

Aww..Little Ms. Chloe is going through what Laik (pronounced Lake) went through almost a week ago..took her in cuz she had tapeworms, conjunctivitis, &, since they had "openings" & could "fit her in", she had a spay as well...the first few days sucked ALOT..she was so "outta-it" & so dissacoiated w/home life in general for a few days..must say that her crate was her "haven" during that time 
Time may be the best healer of all though...Chloe will be just fine in a few days, as will my girl....oddley enough, surgery has NOT changer her will, nor her desire to claim ALL "CHEW TOYS" as hers!! Minx....*roll eyes*


----------



## Charis

These are such gorgeous dogs! I've been biten by the pap bug for years...
Laurelin what is the name for the color of your pap that is on the far right of your sig? The beautiful dog with the dark face?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Charis said:


> These are such gorgeous dogs! I've been biten by the pap bug for years...
> Laurelin what is the name for the color of your pap that is on the far right of your sig? The beautiful dog with the dark face?


That's just red sable. Color can vary a lot between individuals. For example, my Pap is red sable as well but she has a very different mask and markings compared to Laurelin's Rose (the one on the far right). The one beside Rose to the left is a red sable too but has different colors on different parts of his face. He doesn't have a black mask like Rose or my Nia does.


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> That's just red sable. Color can vary a lot between individuals. For example, my Pap is red sable as well but she has a very different mask and markings compared to Laurelin's Rose (the one on the far right). The one beside Rose to the left is a red sable too but has different colors on different parts of his face. He doesn't have a black mask like Rose or my Nia does.


Yep Rose is a sable. Rose and even Nia are probably borderline red sable/sable. Some breeders would call Rose just a sable and some would call her red. I call her a red sable. 

Actually I have four red sables and one hound tricolor. Sables just look totally different from one another much of the time. Rose is a red sable and so is Summer (second from the left) too. Very different in looks though.

The mask (dark face) is inherited separately from the color. Beau is actually masked too but it is impossible to see now that he has greyed so much. It was always hard to see because his blaze covered most the mask.

Here is Beau a few years ago. He looks so much younger. You can just barely see the masking.


----------



## lucidity

Wow, Beau used to look so different! Is his sable fading??


----------



## Laurelin

It's called frosting or greying. Basically it means he is affected by the greying gene. He's either Gg or GG for the greying gene. It's actually not related to aging. He started frosting at about 2.

Read here (also talks about masking): http://www.letitpapillons.com/info/colors/genetics.htm

Nard is 2 now and I'm pretty sure he's also going to grey like Beau. He's got a few frosted hairs popping up behind his ears. 

Here's some more young Beau pics:
































































v now:


----------



## Laurelin

And here's really young Beau.


----------



## lucidity

Wow, his colour has changed a whole lot! How old is Beau now?

Does frosting only happen to sables? Or can it happen to any other colour as well?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> Poor Rose! She looks so sad here!


----------



## Laurelin

lucidity said:


> Wow, his colour has changed a whole lot! How old is Beau now?
> 
> Does frosting only happen to sables? Or can it happen to any other colour as well?


It can happen to any color, not just sables. Beau is just about to turn 6 but he started changing colors at 2 years. 

Michiyo, that was Rose's first day at our house. She was not a very happy dog to be honest at that point.


----------



## briteday

Our Cally is a tri and she has had "frosting" on the top of her head where it's black, since she was 2 years old.


----------



## Papilove

WOW, is that color change common? Okay. I have a question, and bear in mind it wouldn't make a difference to me because I love all the colors. My puppy coming is bi-black right now... her sire is tri, and her mother is bi-black. Is black dominant like in most other breeds (with only rare exceptions)? Or can one tri parent show up in the puppies? I wouldn't mind if Batty turned tri, and I wouldn't mind if she stayed bi-black, but I thought I saw something similar (a very black/white puppy turning tri) in a video I saw, and now seeing it again here, I had to ask.


----------



## LaurenE

Papilove said:


> WOW, is that color change common? Okay. I have a question, and bear in mind it wouldn't make a difference to me because I love all the colors. My puppy coming is bi-black right now... her sire is tri, and her mother is bi-black. Is black dominant like in most other breeds (with only rare exceptions)? Or can one tri parent show up in the puppies? I wouldn't mind if Batty turned tri, and I wouldn't mind if she stayed bi-black, but I thought I saw something similar (a very black/white puppy turning tri) in a video I saw, and now seeing it again here, I had to ask.


This page about papillon colors has some great examples of how much a paps color can change from the time it is born until it is "full-grown" and even after.


----------



## Papilove

Thanks. I actually had that page favorited but hadn't had a chance yet to click on the links for more information on how each dog evolved (so to speak).

What I love (and I admit, I'm a color genetics FREAK) are the pedigrees where known colors are listed as far back as possible to allow to see what offspring (at least as posted in that pedigree) came from what colors. I know, I know, color is not important, and it wouldn't matter a hoot to me what color Batty was, I love them all, BUT, I am entralled by the science of color genetics and how it works, and when there are exceptions as it seems there is here:

Like I said, few animals in the animal kingdom have color dominance over black. Black rules in almost every case of crossing, and it takes two recessive color genes to show up over it...

One notable exception (and there are a few others, but this is right off top of my head, and a very solid known one) is red Basenji. In Basenji dogs red is dominant to black.

Well... apparently (so far, I'm just starting this research) black is not necessarily dominant in Paps. I have seen one instance in the pedigree I've scanned so far where a tri female and a blk/white male produced a tri male. So the tri covered the black. Now... It could still be that black is dominant, but like in rabbits patterns dominate over other patterns and tri dominates bi's.... that's an interesting possibility.

Another possibility is the blk/white in question was mislabeled a bi-black and was really a very dark sable/white.

THANKS for the link (or at the very least, thanks for the instructions to get back and actually look deeper. LOL)


EDITED: WEEEEEEEEEEEEE another overule on black: white/sable x white/black produced white/sable.

Very interesting little doggies. LOL

Edit again: WOW, okay just from these pedigrees on the pages linked to Baylor's Papillon Color Description I think (so long as the colors are accurate, and that can sometimes be an issue. Hardly so many would be wrong, though) it can be said black is absolutely NOT dominant in Papillons regardless of pattern. There are many examples of white/black x white/red-white/sable-tri-all producing the crossed to variation, not the white black. Of course, there are several where the bi-black did come through, but it certainly would often enough where double recessives occur.


----------



## Laurelin

You should see Mia's family's color changes. The hound tris change the most. Mia hasn't changed as much as many of them. Check out her brother for example:

http://www.braylorspapillons.com/monkeyped.htm

My bet is Batty is a b/w. Usually the tris or sables would be showing some lighter hairs in there already. The general rule is bicolors will go from light to dark, sables will go from dark to light (like Beau). Tricolors are strange... there are three kinds of tricolors. The traditional will be marked basically like a dobe (but with white) and stay the same . The minimal will just have a tiny amount of tan. But the hound tricolors (like my Mia) fade throughout their life. Some will end up looking pretty much sable. Mia's colors have so far remained very distinct and dark.

While I love Brandi's page that Lauren linked, this is my favorite papillon color site: http://www.letitpapillons.com/info/colors/genetics.htm


----------



## lucidity

I think that black in Paps are not 100% dominant because they're parti coloured. So you have to take into account the white gene as well... that's my guess anyway, lol.


----------



## Papilove

OH thank you, I can swim in this site for quite awhile between assignments and get a real less on pap color genetics.


----------



## LaurenE

Thanks for that link Laurelin, I haven't seen that before!


----------



## Laurelin

No problem! 

Add a pic of a happy Mia while we're at it. 










And a Nard:


----------



## Laurelin

Summer cracks me up in this picture:


----------



## Papilove

I sure do love those pics of Mia, Rose, Beau and the gang. 

As for Batty staying bi-black... that's great with me, that's what I originally picked. It's just that I'd seen what I considered the striking transformation of a couple of looked like b/w pups to tri or sable and it had me wondering. Like I said, it wouldn't have really mattered because I really love all the colors, but I hadn't expected that.

Then seeing that first link got my old 'color genes' rumbling again. It's been a lot of years since the dusty wheels of genetics have turned in my mind, but I love the intricacies of it.


----------



## lucidity

I think for sables and tris that are born black, they only stay black for a couple of weeks. Usually at 4 weeks they start lightening (for sables) and for tris you start seeing their tan points at that age.

And yeah, genetics IS really complicated. It's funny how people always think, oh there should only be two genes and one is always dominant over the other. Such a myth!


----------



## yappypappymom

I don't know much; I admit...but, I DO KNOW that when I first brought Leif home(a sable @ 8 wks.), that I was NOT "prepared" as to how MUCH he was to change!! ....It kinda felt like every morning I was waking up to a "different" dog...dang "genetics"...I am suprised EVERY DAY by him-STILL!! I do think that his pattern has "set" finally though..still, it was an "interesting" journey....pups/vs. grown-up paps are worlds apart!!


----------



## barnetto

Hi!

I'm completely new here, but I've been reading the Papillon thread ever since I decided to get mine. I picked up Simone and Pepin last Wednesday. They are about 10-11 weeks old now.










They look like little rabbits in this pic ^_^


















After their first bath:










I was told after I'd put in my adoption papers with the rescue by a trainer (I was seeking expertise, these are my first paps and my first dogs, though my SO grew up with dogs) that you shouldn't generally adopt siblings. Its not half as difficult, because you can't rely on them playing with each other to be entertained, and its not twice as difficult just because there are two, but like 3x as difficult because you have to train them separately and then train them together.

But we're prepared to put in the work and I can already see from the past few days that they're really smart. I have some hope they'll turn out okay.


----------



## Papilove

They are PRECIOUS!

I've raised siblings before, and yes there are specific challenges to it, but the fact that you KNOW there are, are prepared for them, and always thinking about them puts you way ahead of the game. It's possible and they can be absolutely fantastic together when raised like that.

Keep posting pics of those two characters as they grow.


----------



## Laurelin

They're precious! It sounds like you're prepared to raise two, so I think you'll be just fine.  Post lots and lots of pictures of them growing up! I miss having a baby papillon, my 'baby' is 14 months now. 

Papilove, on sables and tris, at first glance they can appear black as newborns. If you look at the picture of Beau at 3 days you can see just a hint of brown undertone to the hair around his face if you look closely. I saw him at three days though and I thought he was a b/w but his breeder could tell he was a tri. 










By the time he was 3 weeks old he was very much looking brown versus black. But it is ALWAYS a guessing game trying to decide what color a sable will end up. Some will start out very dark and end very light. Some will lighten then get darker, etc. 

Similarly Monkey (Mia's brother on Braylor's page) is showing some subtle tan on the face. He ended up hound tri. Tris are a bit hard to tell at birth too as far as what kind of tri you have. Really you have to guess based on parents and wait and see if the black starts fading. When I picked up Mia, she looked just almost like a traditional tricolor, but she had a little tiny bit more tan around her eyes. Now she's faded out where her whole face is tan and she has a widow's peak type marking.


----------



## LaurenE

barnetto- Simone and Pepin are absolutely adorable! I think that since you already know what challenges you're facing raising a pair of siblings you're already ahead of the game . More pics please!

Laurelin- Monkey has a nephew available for adoption that looks like he's going to be a gorgeous hound tri. I want him lol!


----------



## Laurelin

LaurenE said:


> Laurelin- Monkey has a nephew available for adoption that looks like he's going to be a gorgeous hound tri. I want him lol!


I want him too! lol Reminds me of puppy Mia.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's Mia when I first got her:










She almost looked like a traditional tricolor:



















Now:



















The biggest change is she now has brown behind her ears


----------



## PappyMom

Look at all the cute new papsss!! And I never get tired of Laur's gang!! =]


Here's Roxy being lazy:


----------



## barnetto

I love seeing all the puppy to adult pictures, although I love Simone and Pepin just the way they are right now and I know I'm going to miss their puppy phase in a few years. 

How old is Mia in those first few pics?

I've got some video of my two, but I'm thinking maybe Pepin's whale humping video should be kept private. Not sure he's supposed to be doing that at 11 weeks...at least its not his sister.

The long weekend with them was great and Simone seems to be blossoming (Pepin has been rambunctious from the very start).


----------



## Laurelin

I want. bad.


----------



## Papilove

Oh she's just precious. For some reason in this thread I can see her, but in the other one I couldn't see the picture, just red x. Is she the clear red/white you wanted, or is she a really light sable (so far anyway)?


----------



## Laurelin

She's a light sable. Will probably end up like her dad in color.


----------



## Papilove

Just got a quick note from batty's breeder saying she's going to take more pictures this weekend and send them, Batty's ears are up already (5 1/2 weeks, so precocious lol) and she just whole body wags whenever she plays. I'm so excited and anxious to bring her home, it's only a few weeks, but it seems like forever.


----------



## Papilove

Laurelin said:


> She's a light sable. Will probably end up like her dad in color.


He's beautiful. I thought she might be sable, but it also looked like the lighting could be doing it. In any case, I say bring her home and introduce her to the gang. LOL


----------



## LaurenE

Ok, I have been wanting a pap puppy for awhile now and this is not helping! Laurelin, you can always take her and then if you change your mind pass her on to me .


----------



## PappyMom

Here's the munchkin princess, a little more elegantly then the last pic I posted of her =P


----------



## Papilove

LOL She does not look amused. Side question: did you make or buy that thin long leash?


----------



## PappyMom

Haha, she hated the bright sun!

And we got the long thin green tether from Walmart.. It's really nice, since I'm nervous about offleash in an unfenced area..since it's so long she can still excercise freely.


----------



## Papilove

that's cool. I haven't seen anything like that at my walmart or stores locally. I'll check when I go up into the city next week, hopefully I'll find something there. I have plenty of fenced in yard here, but as Batgirl gets a little older I will want to take her into town to the park (not dog specific, no fences, but a great place to socialize with people). I used to do it with my dobies, and used extra long 'leashes' so I could play a little with them without them being loose. The leashes I used to have were thicker and heavier though, and I'd think too much for a tiny dog. Yours looks great.


----------



## lucidity

Awww, hello again Roxy!  she looks so cute there... how old is she again??


----------



## PappyMom

Roxy turned a year on April 1st, so she's just a little over 14 months now. =]


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## Nargle

I saw this picture on my little slideshow thingy on my desktop, and I was reminded that it's a pretty cool pic  It was taken exactly one year and two days ago.










Basil's fur was a lot different then. It was shorter in a lot of places, but it was also much thicker, straighter, and softer. Now it's got much more of a wave to it, and it seems a little thinner, but it has gotten some length. I think the most notable difference is his tail, which used to have big, thick, untamable waves that seemed to always get tangled and need brushing. But now his tail fur hangs straight down nearly touching the ground in some places, and it seems much thinner and finer and rarely gets tangled. I wonder if his age has anything to do with it? He was allegedly about 1.5 years old in this pic, and he's obviously 2.5 now. Do papillons' fur change like this normally at this age? Also, he had a lot more ear fringes back then than he does today, but I think that's because he scratched them off.


----------



## Independent George

Wow. 44 pages, almost 900 posts, and counting. I love the fact that the most popular thread on these boards is devoted to a breed 99% of the population has never heard of. 

Anyway, your efforts at indoctrination have worked. If I ever get a toy breed, it'll be a Pap.


----------



## lucidity

Haha, Independent George, why not get one NOW? Your life will never be the same again... lol.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nargle said:


> Basil's fur was a lot different then. It was shorter in a lot of places, but it was also much thicker, straighter, and softer. Now it's got much more of a wave to it, and it seems a little thinner, but it has gotten some length. I think the most notable difference is his tail, which used to have big, thick, untamable waves that seemed to always get tangled and need brushing. But now his tail fur hangs straight down nearly touching the ground in some places, and it seems much thinner and finer and rarely gets tangled. I wonder if his age has anything to do with it? He was allegedly about 1.5 years old in this pic, and he's obviously 2.5 now. Do papillons' fur change like this normally at this age? Also, he had a lot more ear fringes back then than he does today, but I think that's because he scratched them off.


I've been pretty busy lately and haven't posted much. Pap hair shouldn't change anymore other than gain length and thickness after about 1 yr old. Perhaps it has something to do with the food he was eating when he wasn't adopted yet? I know bad food leads to a bad coat and now that he eats good food the oils and fats makes his coat nice and shiny and smooth?


----------



## Nargle

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I've been pretty busy lately and haven't posted much. Pap hair shouldn't change anymore other than gain length and thickness after about 1 yr old. Perhaps it has something to do with the food he was eating when he wasn't adopted yet? I know bad food leads to a bad coat and now that he eats good food the oils and fats makes his coat nice and shiny and smooth?


That might be it. He fur was very poofy when I adopted him, and it's very silky now. Maybe I'm mistaking that for thickness? His tail was crazy though, I had to brush it like every hour, lol! It's definitely a lot smoother and healthier looking now.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nargle said:


> That might be it. He fur was very poofy when I adopted him, and it's very silky now. Maybe I'm mistaking that for thickness? His tail was crazy though, I had to brush it like every hour, lol! It's definitely a lot smoother and healthier looking now.


It could be tangly because there's lots of dead hairs and split hairs because of the lack of oils in the coat or bad shampoo used. Also if the previous foster parents didn't comb him out enough or didn't comb him at all it could be a lot of dead and stuck hairs in his coat making it seem thick and poofy.

Right now the tip of Nia's tail is getting a little dry and looks like there are some split ends, I should probably get some satin cream from Vellus to rub it in but I placed my order about 2 weeks ago and forgot about it so oh well. It doesn't tangle that much though unless some places have touched dirty water or something.


----------



## briteday

Our girls will be 11 years old this Fall (they are littermates) and I sooooooo want a pap puppy. We acquired Cally (tri) when she was 4 months old because she was not going to be show quality, the "Helga" girl of the litter. She was a bit broad across the chest and has a neck like **** Butkus. Her littermate, Pop-It (avatar) is the pretty girl of the tow and went on to finish and then whelp a few litters for the breeder. We got her when she was 8 years old. I would love to have a pap puppy. Maybe when the time is right I may have to visit Texas!

BTW, how can I tell if Pop is a sable or red? Her breeder (not the sharpest tool inthe shed) listed her as a red.


----------



## lucidity

Pop looks like she has some black hairs, so she'd be a sable.


----------



## briteday

She does have black in her ear fringe! Thanks. I never knew what to call her. All I know about her color is that the breeder always said her color is harder to grow ear fringe on and she would put a snood on them during show season.

I also wish I could have seen the parents when we got Cally. The sire died suddenly just after we got Cally. He was only 9 years old and the necropsy didn't reveal any cause. I just found out that her dam is still alive and well with a forever retirement home. But I haven't ever seen her. It was a weird situation when we got Cally. The person who owned the sire (lives in CA) had pick of the litter and chose Cally, I'm sure because the owner of the dam definitely wanted to keep Pop as she was a such better show prospect right from the start. The owner of the dam it turns out, lives 25 miles from me. So we drove to CA to pick up Cally at a show 1/2 way for both of us. But I didn't meet the owner of the dam until he wanted to retire Pop and found out that we had her littermate, Cally. By then the dam was long ago re-homed.


----------



## lucidity

No problem!  I think Laurelin would be able to explain the specifics for you... Pop loks kinda like Summer's colour to me, and I think Laur calls her a "clear red sable".

I don't think I've ever seen pictures of Cally before! Maybe you should post some here


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Basically if there are any black hairs at all on a red dog, then the dog is a sable. Even if the dog looks all red but if you look through the coat there are black hairs. Actually even if there's only 1, it's a sable dog. If the dog is predominantly red, you can call him/her a red sable. So your Pop would be a red sable. I don't think I would call her a clear sable because I can clearly see black ear fringe and I think I can see hints of black hairs around her face. Clear red sable is when you basically can't tell the dog has black hairs until you look very carefully within the hairs.


----------



## Lil RiRi

What about my Chloe.. she is black and white but the back of her ears are changing colors. They are a brownish color. At first I thought maybe it was from the sun, but the rest of her black would be the same color wouldn't they, plus we live in the PACNW, so really sun isn't really a good reasoning. I'll try and take pictures if it helps.


----------



## briteday

lucidity said:


> No problem!  I think Laurelin would be able to explain the specifics for you... Pop loks kinda like Summer's colour to me, and I think Laur calls her a "clear red sable".
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen pictures of Cally before! Maybe you should post some here


I'll try to get better pictures of both dogs in the next few days. I just finished work yesterday (Wed) for the school district, last day, yea!!!! And I don't start my new job until next week. So I'll have some time to mess with the dogs while I'm off. More pictures to come...but I'm not nearly as good a photog as Laurelin!


----------



## Independent George

lucidity said:


> Haha, Independent George, why not get one NOW? Your life will never be the same again... lol.


Don't laugh, but I'm terrified of toy breeds. Being the clumsy oaf that I am, I'm just too worried that I will break one in half. There are three things which I absolutely refuse to handle, for the same reasons:

1. Babies
2. Musical Instruments
3. Puppies/Toy Dogs

Yes, I am certifiably insane, why do you ask?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Lil RiRi said:


> What about my Chloe.. she is black and white but the back of her ears are changing colors. They are a brownish color. At first I thought maybe it was from the sun, but the rest of her black would be the same color wouldn't they, plus we live in the PACNW, so really sun isn't really a good reasoning. I'll try and take pictures if it helps.


It actually is most likely sun exposure. If you look at the 2nd picture on this site, the black and white Pap has brown hairs in the back and ends of the ears as well. It's because of the sun. If Chloe doesn't have any black or tan on her face at all, then it should be a back and white coloration with some sun damage.

Look at the 2nd picture


----------



## lucidity

Independent George said:


> Don't laugh, but I'm terrified of toy breeds. Being the clumsy oaf that I am, I'm just too worried that I will break one in half. There are three things which I absolutely refuse to handle, for the same reasons:
> 
> 1. Babies
> 2. Musical Instruments
> 3. Puppies/Toy Dogs
> 
> Yes, I am certifiably insane, why do you ask?


Haha, I don't think it's possible to step on one, actually.. They're really quick to get out of your way!


----------



## Lil RiRi

Michiyo-Fir said:


> It actually is most likely sun exposure. If you look at the 2nd picture on this site, the black and white Pap has brown hairs in the back and ends of the ears as well. It's because of the sun. If Chloe doesn't have any black or tan on her face at all, then it should be a back and white coloration with some sun damage.
> 
> Look at the 2nd picture


Thanks. Actually, after I posted that I happened upon another thread which led to that website. I'm glad it's just sun exposure even though I am not when that could of happened! lol But, thanks


----------



## -Maxine-

We've had a papillon/pommerian mix in the shelter a while ago. His name was Moush.


----------



## Papilove

Okay, question for all you pappy trainers here. Since the smallest dog I've ever owned in the past was a beagle, but most of mine were large breed dogs, I've never come on the problem of having to worry about using too many treats during training. Is that an issue, I mean the dogs only eat 1/2 to 3/4 cups of food a day, right? Do you use the entire allotment of food to train, or do you not use food incentives at all, how do you handle the balance of feeding and treats and still avoid over-feeding, or a dog being disinterested in treats.


----------



## Nargle

Papilove said:


> Okay, question for all you pappy trainers here. Since the smallest dog I've ever owned in the past was a beagle, but most of mine were large breed dogs, I've never come on the problem of having to worry about using too many treats during training. Is that an issue, I mean the dogs only eat 1/2 to 3/4 cups of food a day, right? Do you use the entire allotment of food to train, or do you not use food incentives at all, how do you handle the balance of feeding and treats and still avoid over-feeding, or a dog being disinterested in treats.


Some of the time, I measure out Basil's food and put it in a bag/treat pouch, and use that as his training treats. Then I may put the rest in his everlasting fun ball if I have any left over. I do use dehydrated liver chips, though, especially when training in public. In that case, I cut the chips up really small, like 0.5 cm X 0.5 cm. It helps make a very small amount last a long time. I don't subtract from his kibble when I use liver because I don't consider it to be very fattening, it's actually pretty healthy, plus I don't use a whole ton. Basil eats 2/3 cups of food per day, and he probably gets 1/8 cup of liver treats if we're doing a lot of training.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Papilove said:


> Okay, question for all you pappy trainers here. Since the smallest dog I've ever owned in the past was a beagle, but most of mine were large breed dogs, I've never come on the problem of having to worry about using too many treats during training. Is that an issue, I mean the dogs only eat 1/2 to 3/4 cups of food a day, right? Do you use the entire allotment of food to train, or do you not use food incentives at all, how do you handle the balance of feeding and treats and still avoid over-feeding, or a dog being disinterested in treats.


If your Pap likes food then I recommend using kibble as treats. Mine won't even eat kibble as treats. A lot of Paps are so picky they often skip meals or just won't eat because they don't like the food. Nia only eats one meal every 24 hrs, that's just how she regulates herself. She has food all the time but she doesn't nibble or anything. Just one big meal every night.

The key is to feed treats in very very small pieces. I use pieces the size of half my pinky nail. A piece of chicken jerky or liver lasts quite a while and a few pieces can be an entire training session ration. 

Since Nia is always skinny, I'm not worried about her getting fat or anything like that. The only thing I worry about is too much treats and she won't eat her food for that day.


----------



## Nargle

Michiyo-Fir said:


> If your Pap likes food then I recommend using kibble as treats. Mine won't even eat kibble as treats. A lot of Paps are so picky they often skip meals or just won't eat because they don't like the food. Nia only eats one meal every 24 hrs, that's just how she regulates herself. She has food all the time but she doesn't nibble or anything. Just one big meal every night.
> 
> The key is to feed treats in very very small pieces. I use pieces the size of half my pinky nail. A piece of chicken jerky or liver lasts quite a while and a few pieces can be an entire training session ration.
> 
> Since Nia is always skinny, I'm not worried about her getting fat or anything like that. The only thing I worry about is too much treats and she won't eat her food for that day.


I agree, they can be picky. Several of the foods we've used Basil would barely eat out of his bowl, much less do tricks for. There are a few foods he really likes, though (Taste of the Wild, EVO, and most recently Solid Gold Barking at the Moon) so we've been lucky enough to get to use that kibble for training  

I feel that when Basil is going on a hunger strike, though, it doesn't hurt him at all to use an abundance of healthy treats, like homemade jerky and dehydrated liver chips. They're not bad for him, nor are they fattening. Just gotta be careful about too many treats before mealtime lest you spoil their appetite


----------



## Papilove

Thanks guys. I am going to have to cross my fingers that batbrain isn't finky at least. I'm used to very large dogs who can eat small treats all day and still have plenty of room for regular food, and not get fat. Well, you know. It's a proportionate difference. LOL


----------



## lucidity

Lol... Almost every Pap I know of is a super, super picky eater. Cadence used to be HORRIBLE. But well, tough love fixed all that. Now he eats like a good boy  Be careful, though! Small dogs put on weight reaaallly quickly. I was shocked when Cadence weighed in at 9.1lbs at the vet's the other day  Just 2 months ago he was only 8.2lbs!

He's at a good weight now, so I'm finally not trying to put weight on him anymore, lol. He gets kibble (I use various brands that I get from sample packs ) and biscuits for training treats. A couple of days a week he gets a bully stick. But besides those, he really doesn't get any treats.


----------



## Papilove

Oh goodness me, what have I gotten myself into. LMAO


----------



## briteday

I WISH I could say I have picky papillons! Mine would eat to the point of exploding if the food bag was left anywhere within their reach! We religiously weigh (raw) and measure (kibble, when necessary) every meal, every time.


----------



## Laurelin

briteday said:


> I WISH I could say I have picky papillons! Mine would eat to the point of exploding if the food bag was left anywhere within their reach! We religiously weigh (raw) and measure (kibble, when necessary) every meal, every time.


I have finally gotten my first papillon PIG. Mia inhales food. The rest of mine I have to coax to eat.


----------



## Papilove

I'm beginning to think food isn't going to be the best motivator. LOL


----------



## yappypappymom

...honestly Papi,...I really doubt that I would have gotten so far in my training w/my 2 as I have had I not used food...there are far too many "tempting" OTHER things that would have held their attention much better than a just a "good boy", or a "good girl" compliment would have gotten me. 
When Batty arrives home, just try to imagine how tiny her stomach is inside of the poofy fur...its going to be SMALL!! Were I you, I would only give here half of her meal, & set aside the other portion for spontaneous treats. The amount may look meager, but, again...you are dealing w/a TINY little pup!


----------



## Laurelin

It just has to be good food.  

To my papillons kibble = ick. Raw = ick (to Summer at least). 

Hot dogs have worked very well lol. I call Summer bulldozer because she'll bulldoze over the other four for treats. She was a linebacker in a previous life.


----------



## Papilove

LOL aw no, not dainty little Summer, she looks so sweet and lady-like. LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> It just has to be good food.
> 
> To my papillons kibble = ick. Raw = ick (to Summer at least).
> 
> Hot dogs have worked very well lol. I call Summer bulldozer because she'll bulldoze over the other four for treats. She was a linebacker in a previous life.


To Nia who is probably the pickiest Pap ever, any kind of food for more than 3 days is yucky. She only likes a new thing including raw for about 3 days before she's refusing meals and skipping lots of meals again. She refused to eat for more than 48 hrs when I gave her chicken AGAIN....LOL

I rotate treats to keep her from getting bored. I use Ziwipeak food, Wellness treats (Wellbites and PureRewards because they break off very easily), dehydrated chicken, dehydrated duck, freeze dried liver, etc.


----------



## Papilove

Seriously though, this is going to be VERY interesting. I've never had a picky dog in my life. LOL


----------



## Nargle

Michiyo-Fir said:


> To Nia who is probably the pickiest Pap ever, any kind of food for more than 3 days is yucky. She only likes a new thing including raw for about 3 days before she's refusing meals and skipping lots of meals again. She refused to eat for more than 48 hrs when I gave her chicken AGAIN....LOL
> 
> I rotate treats to keep her from getting bored. I use Ziwipeak food, Wellness treats (Wellbites and PureRewards because they break off very easily), dehydrated chicken, dehydrated duck, freeze dried liver, etc.


Basil is similar. I'd love to buy those huge bags of kibble to save money, but Basil usually starts skipping meals by the time the small bags are almost empty, so then it's time to rotate to another flavor/brand. He lasts longer than 3 days, though, lol!

As for treats, I filled my dehydrator with a TON of different goodies (Bananas, blueberries, turkey, beef, turkey organs, beef liver, fish, sweet potato) and chopped them up into tiny treats and filled up a couple big bags of it all mixed up, so that way when I'm training he doesn't know what to expect and will always be anticipating a surprise, lol! 

Unfortunately food is the ONLY reward I can offer Basil, aside from praise, because he's totally not toy motivated at all.


----------



## lucidity

Papilove said:


> Seriously though, this is going to be VERY interesting. I've never had a picky dog in my life. LOL


Haha, at first, it's going to be REALLY STRESSFUL!!  I had sleepless nights because Cadence once went without eating anything for 3 days straight and he was only 3 months old.  I tried EVERYTHING. I mashed his kibble up with hot water, mixed it with treats, etc. 

Finally my neighbour introduced me to raw (the premade kind), and he finally ate. After a month, he got tired of raw as well and just wouldn't eat ANYTHING. Except for treats, of course. I had to feed him from the Kong, throw his kibble around so that it was like a game, yada yada. 

Then I toughened up and said ok, if he won't eat, he's not getting any food and that's that. After two weeks he finally got the message and stopped being picky, haha. Nowadays he eats his food the moment I put it down (though I mix his kibble with a rotation of canned food). If I put kibble down on its own, he'll eat if his really hungry. If he's not, he'll leave it for a bit and play, but then he usually comes back and eats it in the end. Lol.


----------



## lucygoose

My Anabelle will and does eat anything.... Willie, needs change often....or he doesn't eat well either.


----------



## Papilove

Well in exactly one week from this minute I'll have my baby home here. The count down has begun in the house. I went to Petco today and got another bunch of toys, FOUND THE ITTTTTTYYYY BITTYYYYY tennis balls!!! yay, they're so cute. I got several food stuffing toys, and some premade treats. I have a bunch of old treat recipes and have found a few more online I'm going to make liver treats and stuff too, but I just wanted something fast in the house. I think I'm pretty much set. I do want to get a second crate for the boat. I'll probably pick one up sometime this week when I go into town Walmart here is fine for that.

Thanks for all the food suggestions and stories. Crossing fingers, but at least if she is picky/finicky or just plain exasperating, I'll be prepared for it.


----------



## barnetto

I've had my two little pups going on three weeks now. They were ecstatic about kibble, and then I had to go and give them cheese treats.

Then when I tried to feed Pepin his kibble he'd look up at me as if he couldn't believe the kind of offal he was being offered. So...he's back to only kibble except when I need to lure him off the grass he lays down on during walks.

I haven't been good about sticking to their food schedule so they still don't realize they have to eat when its there. They'll only stick around and eat if I hover or if I put their bowls right next to each other and then I guess they start competing.


----------



## Papilove

Yep, gonna be interesting.

I think one of the things that has me hung up on the worrying about this is simply size too. I'm just not used to such a small dog with such a small stomach. All my previous dogs were large breeds who could eat all day if needed without really gaining wait, so I didn't have to worry about a few too many treats during training, or if they'd not want to eat their regular food.

It's probably a little bit of over-anxiety for waiting for her too. 

5 days!


----------



## Khia

I had never even heard of papillons till I joined. Now...I want one...


----------



## Laurelin

As requested... Puppy pics!










Dawww

Just about the cutest thing ever, wasn't she?


----------



## Papilove

Laurelin said:


>


Oh thank you! I love them all. that one, and the expression on her itty bitty face just about had me rolling out of my chair. That's too cute.

I don't know if I'm going to make it.


----------



## Laurelin

I was running and looked down. Decided I think I loved her.
































































Okay now I'M getting puppy fever!


----------



## Miranda16

i heart the last pick of them in the bath laurelin .... she looks like such a little tag along

just go and get that other little pap ....


----------



## Papilove

Come back to the dark side Laurelin. LOL

Thank you, thank you. Keep my fix fed for the rest of the week. LMAO


----------



## Miranda16

and pap you better post like A GAZILLION pictures of miss batty .... we are all anticipating her arrival


----------



## Laurelin

I know she LOOKS innocent, but she was FAR FAR from it. 

Luckily Mia is still very much a puppy in her mannerisms. Still bouncy as can be and still wiggly. I think she may never grow up.


----------



## Miranda16

Laurelin said:


> I think she may never grow up.


thank doG for that ....


----------



## Papilove

Miranda16 said:


> and pap you better post like A GAZILLION pictures of miss batty .... we are all anticipating her arrival


Have no fear. I don't have a fancy camera (maybe a good Christmas present LMAO) but I promise you'll get sick of so many "aw isn't she cute" "hey she's being a snot" "look at her being an idiot" pics. LOL


----------



## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> Have no fear. I don't have a fancy camera (maybe a good Christmas present LMAO) but I promise you'll get sick of so many "aw isn't she cute" "hey she's being a snot" "look at her being an idiot" pics. LOL


Yay! I can live vicariously through you. They grow up WAY too fast.


----------



## lucidity

Mannn I think I'm having puppy fever too.  I love puppies! Here are some randoms of Cadence that I never posted. It's sad, I have very few pics of him when he first came home because I was too busy not getting any sleep and cleaning up after him!! -_-""









This was when he first came home at 11 weeks old. That is a TINY crate. He's since totally outgrown it... and that crate is sitting in my storage somewhere. Anyone want a free crate? 









At about 3 months old, lol. He's also totally outgrown this sweater! Sheesh.









During the worst of his puppy "uglies"... I think he's about 3.5 months here.

And....... a video!! I LOVE this video. It really captures Cadence's personality, imo. (click on the picture to view the video)



Awww I miss my little puppy. Look at him there, all awkward and gangly looking! Even his running looks lopsided and funny, lol. Oh, and he''s about 3.5 months old in the video.


----------



## Papilove

He was so adorable. I love the "uglies" stage. I'm kind of wish Batty would look like that forever. The adult look is so beautiful, but there's something so fun looking about that gangly look that gets me. LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Aiya!!! Puppiespuppiespuppiespupppies <3<3<3<3

Mia was so so cute until we all found out she's a little devil  Cadence was so cute too!

I'm actually pretty sad I never got to see really young puppy Nia. I got her at almost 6 months old so I missed that stage in her life. She was one of teh puppies kept as a show prospect but her personality didn't quite make her suitable for the show ring. She's too unsure and a little shy, plus she doesn't like to pose at all hehe.


----------



## Papilove

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Aiya!!! Puppiespuppiespuppiespupppies <3<3<3<3
> 
> Mia was so so cute until we all found out she's a little devil  Cadence was so cute too!
> 
> I'm actually pretty sad I never got to see really young puppy Nia. I got her at almost 6 months old so I missed that stage in her life. She was one of teh puppies kept as a show prospect but her personality didn't quite make her suitable for the show ring. She's too unsure and a little shy, plus she doesn't like to pose at all hehe.


She may not like to pose 'pretty' for the judges, but she sure makes a wonderful camera model (at least when she's not looking. LOL)


----------



## yappypappymom

TAKE LOTS OF PICS!!! During this time, Batty is going to change SO much - DAILY EVEN...you really will not notice the subtleness with your own, bare eyes, but, when comparing older pics vs. newer pics,-your jaw MAY drop in amazement sometimes!!...BABY pics are PRICELESS!!! *sighs*


----------



## Papilove

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww, I'll remember that and make sure to really get those pictures in.

I was doing okay with the wait until these last couple days. This week is going so SLOW. I can't wait for Sunday.


----------



## yappypappymom

I know...WE ARE ALL "waiting" right along with you too!! You have "hyped" up the forums sooo much since mentioning Batty, that, I believe there are none here that DON'T know about her!! We are ALL waiting right along w/you!! A brand-spanking new pup all covered in puppy breath is like doggie crack to us dog lovers!!  SUNDAY it is then.....*marks on calender* LOL ........PS- BULK UP on sleep these next few days too! *winks* <-"advice from "been there, done that"


----------



## lucidity

Lol! Yeah, you know what's awesome about the ugly bald stage?? Not having to clean up dirt and mud that gets stuck onto their fur.. hahaha.


----------



## Papilove

yappypappymom said:


> PS- BULK UP on sleep these next few days too! *winks* <-"advice from "been there, done that"




and here I sit at 1 am... I don't usually have trouble sleeping, and it's WAY past my bedtime. haha.

I probably have driven the entire forum crazy with my excitement, hahaha. Can't help it.


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## lucidity

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Aiya!!! Puppiespuppiespuppiespupppies <3<3<3<3
> 
> Mia was so so cute until we all found out she's a little devil  Cadence was so cute too!
> 
> I'm actually pretty sad I never got to see really young puppy Nia. I got her at almost 6 months old so I missed that stage in her life. She was one of teh puppies kept as a show prospect but her personality didn't quite make her suitable for the show ring. She's too unsure and a little shy, plus she doesn't like to pose at all hehe.


Aww, thanks! You know, I'm sure Nia was adorable as a pup! I think I've seen a couple of pics of her... does her breeder have more pics of her as a little puppy maybe?



yappypappymom said:


> .PS- BULK UP on sleep these next few days too! *winks* <-"advice from "been there, done that"


Oh man, this statement is SO TRUE!! I was a walking zombie for like a month or two after I got Cadence. -__-"" I think I might have gotten a nervous breakdown at some point, haha. Raising puppies is no joke! It's so tiring, and sometimes, downright frustrating! Lol.


----------



## Papilove

In the past month I've been waiting here, I've had more than my share of thinking I've gone off my rocker getting a puppy. It's been 20 years since I have had a puppy in the house, and I'm not 30 anymore. Then I tell myself I'll manage, I'll get through it. It can't last forever. LMAO


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## lucidity

Haha, that's true! It really lasts maybe a couple of months at most, lol. Depending on what kind of puppy Batty is..... if she's anything like Mia, oh boy.... you're in for a long ride, haha.

But you know what, I actually miss having a puppy around when I look back! There's nothing like puppy craziness. They're so cute and they just do the darnest things (like kids!)... and it's so great to watch them grow and learn new things and mature into beautiful dogs


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Haha, that's true! It really lasts maybe a couple of months at most, lol. Depending on what kind of puppy Batty is..... if she's anything like Mia, oh boy.... you're in for a long ride, haha.
> 
> But you know what, I actually miss having a puppy around when I look back! There's nothing like puppy craziness. They're so cute and they just do the darnest things (like kids!)... and it's so great to watch them grow and learn new things and mature into beautiful dogs


With Gizmo, I lost SOOOOO much sleep, it was UNREAL. And he was so energetic, that I was taking him on walks at MIDNIGHT to try and tire him out.. He was my bonkers puppy.. but he was SO smart, and I was SO unprepared for a Pap when I got him. He was beginning to mold into a perfect little gentleman before my ex and I split. There are times where I wish I could start over again, cause I would've made a perfect pup out of him earlier on.

With Roxy, I never lost any sleep. Her breeders had her and her brothers on a schedule, and she stuck to it like a gem. She's still in the same routine, sleep all night and up at 7am for potties. She also never had any of the puppy crazies! lol! She was just the most perfect, dainty little puppy, and still is at 14 months!

Be prepared to give lots and lots of excercise..and stimulate her little brain like crazy. 

As for the food thing, Gizzy was a hog..he ate everything and anything. Roxy is picky, very picky, and will go on hunger strikes. She likes to watch her girlish figure, as..she's been going between 2 and 3 lbs lately. When I get her up to 3 lbs, she refuses to eat for a day or two, and she goes back down to 2 or 2.5... the food thing is so annoying! So far their favorite food, the one they never left the bowls to eat, has been Taste Of The Wild, HP Formula.

I'm really excited for lots of Batty pics!!! I'm getting my own case of puppy fever!!

(lol, Lucidity, if I were in Canada, I'd be driving to pick up the little crate, now. We're going on vacation, and I need a little crate for the car for her, because we have to fit luggage for a week for 4 people and a dog, and a cooler, box of food, and presents for 2 little girls. Plus @ 2 lbs, she doesn't need a big crate at all..lmao. The tiny ones are perfect for her. I'll probably end up buying the one at Petco, it's like 49.99? lol)


----------



## Laurelin

lucidity said:


> Haha, that's true! It really lasts maybe a couple of months at most, lol. Depending on what kind of puppy Batty is..... if she's anything like Mia, oh boy.... you're in for a long ride, haha.
> 
> But you know what, I actually miss having a puppy around when I look back! There's nothing like puppy craziness. They're so cute and they just do the darnest things (like kids!)... and it's so great to watch them grow and learn new things and mature into beautiful dogs


A couple months? LOL! Mia is 14 months and still going strong. Okay she has matured SOMEWHAT....


----------



## Papilove

My plan is to tire her out good and plenty during the day in hopes of not having to do much heavy duty walking in the middle of the night, lmao. then again, if I'm up until 1 am again like last night, a late night walk isn't a bad thing.


----------



## Laurelin

Beau was such an easy puppy. Not once did Beau chew anything. He was hyper (still is) but was easy easy.

Nard was hyper and destructive. I thought he was terrible when we got him. He chewed up a LOT of things. At about 10 months though he stopped and now is the most mellow, easy going of our dogs. Nard is pretty trustworthy too.

Mia... Mia was a nightmare, lol. Just super curious about everything and everything went straight into the mouth. She had to figure out how to open things and tear things up. She NEVER stopped moving. She screamed all night. Woke me up at quarter to 6 every morning wanting to play. Overall she was just too smart for her own good as I'm sure many of you remember from all the 'guess what Mia did now!' threads. She's 14 months and has just barely matured. She's still super hyper and intense but now she has some focus to go with it, which is good. I still can't leave her alone without 110% supervision and I still have to double lock her kennels or she escapes.


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## Papilove

Can I put my order in now? The sleep all night of Roxy, the not chew anything of Beau, and the play intensity of Mia.

Probably too late to ask now though huh? Batty's mold has been broken. haha


----------



## Crantastic

I got a video last night of Crystal and Casper and some fox kits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z8b1u7Udss

Also, Crystal's breeder e-mailed me today wondering if I know anyone who wants a papillon -- she's retiring Crystal's mom, Rose, from her breeding program, spaying her and letting her go as a pet. Rose is six years old and a cute little spitfire. It would be cool if she went to someone I know so I could visit her!


----------



## Papilove

OMG where do you live that foxes come right out and up to you like that? I live on the edge of a wooded acreage and there are lots of foxes, but they won't come anywhere near us (thankfully). We have lots of coyotes too (boy that sounds eerie some nights).

Casper and his little paw trying to reach out to that fox there at about .57 is SO cute.


----------



## Crantastic

I live in the city, but the island has a lot of coyotes, so the foxes are being driven into the more populated areas. These little guys live under a restaurant downtown, on one of the busier streets. I worry about that, and about the fact that they're so used to humans/domestic dogs; I love that they get close enough for cute pics/videos, but I'd rather they stayed away and safe. They're doing well so far, though. Lots of people are looking out for them, and they seem very good about staying off the road and sticking to the walking trail on the other side of the restaurant. I did a thread for them in the off-topic forum here:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Crantastic said:


> I got a video last night of Crystal and Casper and some fox kits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z8b1u7Udss
> 
> Also, Crystal's breeder e-mailed me today wondering if I know anyone who wants a papillon -- she's retiring Crystal's mom, Rose, from her breeding program, spaying her and letting her go as a pet. Rose is six years old and a cute little spitfire. It would be cool if she went to someone I know so I could visit her!


I'd love to take her if I was closer to PEI... Rose is Nia's grandma for those that don't know.

Edit: Nia was an easy puppy too I guess. She chewed a lot and destroyed a lot of stuff, still do but she wasn't too bad to manage. When I got her at close to 6 months she was 97% potty trained and only had maybe 10 accidents in the house in all the time I've had her. She learned to fetch in a few weeks and since then she's always fetching lol.

We are pretty active though and even last summer she got a couple of hours outside a day whether it's at the beach or hiking or at the park.

Now she still chews up a lot of our stuff but she's pretty good though. When she has too much energy, she just throws toys at me and doesn't cause too much trouble. 

She's very smart but doesn't care that much about pleasing me -___- I actually taught her all her tricks with her tennis ball as a reward. With food she doesn't care for it that much and doesn't learn very fast but with a ball she usually gets it in 5-10 reps depending on the difficulty of the trick.


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## lucidity

Wow, those fox kits are adorable!! They seem to be in pretty good condition, though. 

And omg, Crystal's mom looks exactly like her!!


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## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> (lol, Lucidity, if I were in Canada, I'd be driving to pick up the little crate, now. We're going on vacation, and I need a little crate for the car for her, because we have to fit luggage for a week for 4 people and a dog, and a cooler, box of food, and presents for 2 little girls. Plus @ 2 lbs, she doesn't need a big crate at all..lmao. The tiny ones are perfect for her. I'll probably end up buying the one at Petco, it's like 49.99? lol)


Guess what? I just went and checked the Canada Post website to see if it'd be cheap for me to just mail the crate to you.... but the price came up to $38 -__-"" Lol, stupid shipping!

And yeah, 49.99! That's what I paid for it. So expensive, imo! You'll probably find cheaper ones online that ship for free 

But yea, Roxy would totally fit in Cadence's old tiny crate, haha! He was already 3.8lbs when I brought him home  So Roxy would do fine in a tiny crate like that, lol.


----------



## Nargle

Hm, that little crate actually piqued my interested because I'm looking for a small travel cage for Skittles (Emergencies, vet visits, exterminator visits, moving... I don't plan on living in this apartment for the next 30 years, lol!) but then shipping came to mind!  I wonder where would be a good place to look for a small sturdy bird cage for cheap? I haven't really been looking very seriously yet, as you can tell, lol!!


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## lucidity

Lol! I think I found some websites that were selling crates for pretty cheap... but it was a long time ago, haha, I don't remember where.

Where are you located? I can try and find out how much it'll cost to ship the crate over to you haha..


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## Nargle

I'm in Dallas, Texas, so I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap, lol!


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## Miranda16

i would check ebay .... you could probably find one that somebody is trying to get rid of for decently cheap .... if not i have one that was for my bunbun ... its pretty small


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## Laurelin

So.... isn't today the day she picks up Batty?


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## Papilove

Laurelin said:


> So.... isn't today the day she picks up Batty?




LOL awwwwwwwww, not quite. Tomorrow. My countdown may have made it seem like today because I never count 'the' day since once I get up tomorrow it won't matter anymore, it's time to go and the whole day is exciting. I've been away from the computer because I'm up at the boat where we spend our weekends, on the plus side, that's half way to where Batty is. LOL It would have been a 4 hour drive each way from the house, but from the marina it's only 2 hours so we can drive up and then come back here and relax at the boat (not out on the river, just at the dock) for an hour or so and then make the second leg of the trip. Hopefully that will help just a little with the long ride. (fingers crossed)

I've kind of tossed the alternatives back and forth in my mind all week, one long 4 hour ride home with a couple of potty stops with the xpen, or break up the 4 hours by stopping at the marina for a couple hours. It will be later sunday afternoon and most of the weekenders will have left already so it won't be stressful that way. 

Anyway....

tomorrow, tomorrow, I love ya, tomorrow, you're only a day away!

LOL


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## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> LOL awwwwwwwww, not quite. Tomorrow. My countdown may have made it seem like today because I never count 'the' day since once I get up tomorrow it won't matter anymore, it's time to go and the whole day is exciting. I've been away from the computer because I'm up at the boat where we spend our weekends, on the plus side, that's half way to where Batty is. LOL It would have been a 4 hour drive each way from the house, but from the marina it's only 2 hours so we can drive up and then come back here and relax at the boat (not out on the river, just at the dock) for an hour or so and then make the second leg of the trip. Hopefully that will help just a little with the long ride. (fingers crossed)
> 
> I've kind of tossed the alternatives back and forth in my mind all week, one long 4 hour ride home with a couple of potty stops with the xpen, or break up the 4 hours by stopping at the marina for a couple hours. It will be later sunday afternoon and most of the weekenders will have left already so it won't be stressful that way.
> 
> Anyway....
> 
> tomorrow, tomorrow, I love ya, tomorrow, you're only a day away!
> 
> LOL


oooh so today is the big day! Yay!


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## yappypappymom

*dying for an update*.....WELL??!!??...*taps foot*....


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## Khia

Is Batty home yettt?


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## Miranda16

yea really where is she haha


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## Papilove

I'm SO sorry, would you believe we JUST got home? It's 11:15 and Miss Batty has had one long day (so have we, got lost like crazy going up there). i have to download the pictures and post them.


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## lucidity

Yay! I bet Batty's one tired, tired, puppy today. But we demand pictures!


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## Miranda16

...... taps foot ..... i guess thats okay just hurry up with the darn pictures haha


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## yappypappymom

YAY!! *does a backflip*...FINALLY!! I have been checking in randomly ALL DAY waiting for you to post...heck, even my DH asked me "anything from the lady(meaning you) yet"? LOL
How did she manage on the trip? She may be in shell shock for a bit, or maybe she did just fine...anyhow, sorry to bother,...just been a long time for US here at DF's waiting for you to finally get kinda settled, so that WE get to welcome the gal properly!! (in the form of "Oooooooing" & "AWWWWWing" over her pictures!


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## yappypappymom

lucidity said:


> Yay! I bet Batty's one tired, tired, puppy today. But we demand pictures!


I know of someone ELSE that could "entertain" us some NEW Cadence pics, too,,,


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## Papilove

Well first off we got to the house over an hour and a half late, that's how lost on the back country roads we got and our cell phones were getting no service. To be fair, it's actually a very nice neighborhood, but it's just very seculded and roads are marked HORRIBLY. 

Anyway, had a ball with batty, her mom and dad, and sister and one brother, another boy was gone yesterday. We drove 2 hours back to the marina and she slept on my shoulder the whole way (yes, I had a crate in the car,.. shame on me, didn't use it)










We got to the marina and mean mommy put a collar on little Missy for the first time ever. Of course she whimpered like I was killing her, but then decided, okay, not horrible. Then I put the leash on her, she actually didn't do bad at all. If she got to the end of it, or I pulled her toward me she'd balk, like normal, but I'd call her and she'd come running. She knows her name since her breeder has been calling her that for the past four weeks, so that helps. 

I can't get over how amazing this puppy is. I've never had a dog get comfortable with the leash so fast. After two or three walking sessions she was acting like a pro, and one time got tired of the clasp and took hold of the leash, lol, it was funny.

Now, let me tell you, Miss batty has Bob wrapped around her little paw. He drove home so didn't really get to bond with her, but made up for it quick on the dock.









































When it was time for us to eat dinner, she settled in her crate and ate hers









About 9 pm we got packed up and headed home. We got back in the car and she gave us this look like seriously? I thought that WAS home. we still gots to drive mors? Oh noz.

LOL

but she slept all the way, then pottied when we got home and is now sleeping on my neck as I type.


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## Miranda16

yay puppy


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## Michiyo-Fir

Cutecutecutecutecutepuppypuppyneedpuppywantpuppymusthavestealstealstealsteal!!!!

The 3rd last one is my favorite!


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## yappypappymom

AWWWWW!!! She is SUCH a puff-ball!! And, she looks like she has not one single care in the world as shes perched on DH's comfy shoulder!
She sure is a pretty gal, &, worth the wait, huh? 
*does a happy dance for you*


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## Papilove

yappypappymom said:


> AWWWWW!!! She is SUCH a puff-ball!! And, she looks like she has not one single care in the world as shes perched on DH's comfy shoulder!
> She sure is a pretty gal, &, worth the wait, huh?
> *does a happy dance for you*



Words do not do justice to how much in love with this little puppy I am. And she's wasting no time stealing everybody else's heart too.


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## lucidity

AWWW!! I see she really really seems to like sleeping on necks/shoulders, huh?!! Next, we need videos. HEHEHE


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## Papilove

She really, really does seem to love shoulder/necks. If she doesn't start out there, she will end up there. LOL


----------



## Khia

I don't even know this pup but she's got my heart! Silly dogs always do that to me. 
She is a totally overload of cuteness.


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## Papilove

You guys are all so great. I can't thank you enough for putting up with me these last few weeks as I waited the final stretch for little snickerdoodle here. Then to come on here and see so many waiting to see her was so touching. You're all great.


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## yappypappymom

Well, to be fair,...you just HAPPENED to mosey over onto the DF's site, got to know the board, posted ALL OVER THE PLACE, &, you topped it off that you had to wait for weeks on end for your PAPILLON PUPPY!! *drools from MANY members* LOL...&, *poof*...you DISAPPEAR for the entire day...yeah, we are a nosey bunch, you "got us"...good!! Kinda reminds me of the old Tom Cruise movie, where Renee Zelleweger(sp) tells him "you had me at hello" LOL 
I hope that you "cashed in" all of your spare sleep time during the wait!...Now, you get a "taste" of the "zombie stage"....*runs outside w/1 shoe on..(no time to look for the other), hair all in a twisted mess, wearing your PJ's...tripping all around the yard w/your face all slack cuz you are STILL half asleep...then do it all again 10 minutes later...I just naturally assume that all of my neighbors think that I am the "crazy lady" on the block!


----------



## Laurelin

Oh my god she's adorable! 

I SO want a black and white. 

How was your first night home? You're in for a really good time with your little pappy.


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## Papilove

Well, things have been going GREAT so far. I know her dutiful schedule ahderance and great puppy potty skills are probably a fluke due to nerves, but she's really being wonderful so far. She pees everytime I walk her, I seriously belive (or may be deluding myself into thinking) she is begining to recognize 'go potty' to go do her thing. She poops outside when needed. I took her on a walk every two hours and that worked really well yesterday (plus after eating). Last night, she stayed in her big "night" cage with a paper pan on one end. I still got up and took her out, but every three hours, she didn't use the pan though, and waited and went when I took her. She whinned a little, but not overly bad. This morning, about 7, I took her out again, she peed, I was only supposed to have another half hour to sleep so I took her in with me where she promptly cuddled, and then went over and cuddled with bob who is off again today, and then this:









A puppy pillow sandwich









There were a couple of even cuter ones, but I was using my camera and it doesn't take good 'dark' shots as you can see.

Anyway, she was so cute I stayed in bed a little longer (haha, good thing I work for myself, what am i gonna do, fire me?) and then it started to storm, so we ended up sleeping an extra 2 hours until the storm passed and I could take her out again, still drizzling, seh wasn't crazy about that, but she pottied. LOL


----------



## Finkie_Mom

OMG she's adorable!!!!! I'm so happy she's doing well and had a good first night. I'm also glad you got to sleep in late with her 

And I love the shoulder-perching!!!!! That's amazing hahahaha 

Hope your first full day together goes as well as your first night! We require many updates/pictures  

(But I think you knew that already LOL)


----------



## That'llDo

Yay! Congrats on your new home, Batty! 

I totally missed out on pics last night, but she is just so cute! What a heartbreaker. I demand many pics as she grows.


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Ahhh too cute! You are making me want a Papillon soooo bad!


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## PappyMom

AAAHHHH, Papillon puppy fluff and puppy breath <3333 I am sooooo jealous.. Batty is too stinkin' cute!!!


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## Papilove

Kong must die! (and give up my foodz)


----------



## Miranda16

what a cute little fluff ball of trouble


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## Papilove

I need a better camera. LOL


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## Miranda16

everything is so dark ... maybe put her in a lighter room


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## Laurelin

Haha she sounds like she is so much better than Mia was! I say give her a week or two though.


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## Papilove

My humanz is so smart, they learnz in one day how to spoilt (I meanz treats) a puppiez.


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## Miranda16

far too cute .... she has the little duck wing going with her front left foot ... i love the duck wing haha


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Too cute!

PS- are there any Papillon specific forums out there?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Jacksons Mom said:


> Too cute!
> 
> PS- are there any Papillon specific forums out there?


I wonder too! I haven't heard of any other than some yahoo groups. I hope there is one though. Somebody please tell me there's one!


----------



## Papilove

I found the yahoo groups too, and interesting as they can be, they're primarily show results focused, with some extra news info typey things. I haven't found any pap forums. With all the Pap lovers on here we should start one. LOL


----------



## lucidity

What? You mean this isn't a Papillon forum?? HEEHEE


----------



## Papilove

LOL It sure seems like it some days.


----------



## Jacksons Mom

lucidity said:


> What? You mean this isn't a Papillon forum?? HEEHEE


LOL. I do see quite a few! 

I was just wondering cuz I belong to a great Yorkie forum. I'm highly surprised there is not a Pap one yet. I think something needs to be done about that!


----------



## Laurelin

I've often thought we should start one. There used to be one but it's gone inactive long ago. I can't believe there's not a papillon forum yet!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> I've often thought we should start one. There used to be one but it's gone inactive long ago. I can't believe there's not a papillon forum yet!


I would totally start a Pap forum if I only knew how.....


----------



## lucidity

I would LOVE a Pap forum too!! Then we won't have to clog up this forum with all the Paps.. lol.

Random story... Cadence is currently sitting by the (open)sliding door refusing to move because he's feeling HOT. Seriously, he's panting and his tongue is hanging out and it's barely 20C  He refused to fetch outside this afternoon because it was hot, and it's not even really summer yet!!


----------



## yappypappymom

Sounds like the paps are going "rogue" ~ LOL...*sits & waits patiently for SOMEONE to begin a p.forum so I can join* ...Why IS IT though, that for all OTHER kinds of breeds, their are often NUMEROUS different forums to join dedicated to that breed, & NONE are for paps??...just don't make much sense to me..GAH!

Lu-my two are slowing down ALOT these past few days. I dare not even walk during them during the daytime...we go near dusk-dark now. When I put them out during the day, they used to just keep themselves occupied, but, now-they do what they have to do, & then want back inside almost immediately. They are smart enough to appreciate the AC.


----------



## lucidity

Haha, how do you entertain them?!?! Cadence was just fidgety and cranky all day because it was hot and he didn't want to play outside. 

And I don't have A/C!! Most people here don't


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia was actually really happy there was sun out today. She ran extra much today. Instead of the regular 1-1.5 hrs at night we went out for almost 3 hrs today. She played with about 15 dogs and played fetch for an hr. She's completely pooped now 

At home I just play tug of war with her or fetch. I also set up a mini lure course sort of thing with a soft toy tied to a long line wound around the house and pull it quickly so that she chases it around objects. It's a lot of fun XD


----------



## Papilove

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I also set up a mini lure course sort of thing with a soft toy tied to a long line wound around the house and pull it quickly so that she chases it around objects. It's a lot of fun XD


That is way too inventive. You've got to post a video of that someday.


----------



## Independent George

Is there a prize for the 1000th post on this thread? Does the winner get a new Pap puppy?


----------



## lucidity

Michiyo-Fir said:


> At home I just play tug of war with her or fetch. I also set up a mini lure course sort of thing with a soft toy tied to a long line wound around the house and pull it quickly so that she chases it around objects. It's a lot of fun XD


Hey, that's a good idea!! I don't know if there's enough space in my apt to do that, but I'll try. 

George, well, you can always ask Laurelin for a pap donation


----------



## Papilove

Hey all you pap experts. Figured I'd ask this in here. When does the transformation from puppy coat to 'ugly stage' start usually?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

It varies but something like 3-4 months. It usually lasts until 6-7 months old before the adult coat starts to come in.


----------



## Papilove

Thanks, I was just curious. I dont' mind that stage at all, I think it's cute. I love her current fluff ball look, but I think she'd be more comfortable without all that fuzz in this heat. She's fine in the house, but really hates mid-day outside even to go pee.


----------



## lucidity

Cadence started shedding all his puppy fur at about 3 months old.... and he's still partially stuck in the uglies! Lol, he turned 1 last week.


----------



## Laurelin

Mia really started the uglies at about 5 months. I got her at 4.5 months and she still had some fluff to her. Then she went bald, lol.


----------



## Papilove

so is it kind of a gradual thing? I've been kind of thinking that batty's top coat feels and looks a little longer, and 'courser' but then it seems her hair isn't as thick. I was trying to decide if it was my imagination, or if she was loosing the fluffy undercoat slowly. but then again, if that were the case she'd loose the longer, coursish hair too right? they loose it all dn't they?


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah it's gradual. Mia's coat came in on her back and tail first.

This is about... 18 or 19 weeks. She started getting some 'real' hair on her tail.










Full blown uglies:


----------



## Papilove

LOL Thanks for those shots. OMG that last one is so cute. I think what it is I love about the 'uglies' is the fact that being bald accentuates the huge ears. I just have a REAL thing for huge ears and while the paps always have big ears, during that stage they just scream EARS. LOL


----------



## barnetto

Ah! I've been gone too long. I had been anticipating the Batty pics after all that build up and then...life.

Batty is such an adorable fur ball  Not sure if my two ever had that much fluff and I'm a little jealous. Also jealous of the way she curls up on shoulders. You sit down on the couch with Simone and she walks over to the other end as far from you as possible (but her brother has gotten very cuddly, when he's not being a terror).

Anyways, thought I'd upload a few more pictures. These span the time from when I first got them to a two week gap after Pepin got his split off to some recent ones. They're about 4 months old right now and really starting to look like real dogs. 

This puppy phase goes by so fast. At first they had puppy roundness but now they're getting gangly and tall and Pepin's ears are proportionally smaller (though Simone's still look nice and big).



















After probably 20 minutes of trying, I can't get this to embed properly, so here's just the youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTQcF-jGDFk&feature=player_embedded










So...Pepin was chasing me in the yard and I took my eyes off of him and he got underfoot and launched into a planter in the yard and sprained his leg. I was so scared and it was such a relief to find nothing was broken. The vet recommended resting the leg and put a splint on Pepin to make sure his orders were followed.



















Here is Pepin all better:










Simone:


----------



## Laurelin

They're adorable! 

The uglies are my favorite stage. Just all legs and still clumsy puppies.


----------



## Papilove

Barnetto! I was missing you. Those pics show the changes really well. and awwwwwwwwwwww poor Pepin with his leg all bound up. I bet he's thrilled to be rid of that thing. They are adorable. I love the 'uglies' too.


----------



## Crantastic

I was surrounded by papillons all day long at a dog show! I didn't get any pictures, but I'm going back tomorrow and there will be 11 paps instead of just seven like today, so I'll try to break out the camera. The papillon breeders are all friends and I know all of them now, so they tend to rope me in and make me hold dogs and combs and numbers (I don't protest, of course; I love the little guys), so it's hard to find time to actually take pictures of them! I think I'm going to start taking handling classes soon, just for fun and to support a friend (who's getting into breeding and showing cocker spaniels and would enjoy the company at classes), so maybe I'll actually get to help show some paps one of these days.


----------



## Papilove

Oh that sounds like tons of fun. I spent the day telling people what a Papillon is. LOL Everyone asks what kind of dog Bat is, and then they get this blank stare... if I said long haired Chihuahua, they'd know, in fact I over-heard the dock know it all tell his guest as we walked by that I had a long haired Chihuahua... yeah, okay, whatever you say. Luckily his wife is not an imbecile.


----------



## Laurelin

Trust me, the chihuahua comments will just keep coming and coming. Most times I take mine out they get called a chihuahua at least once or twice.


----------



## Nargle

At least she isn't getting mistaken for a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, lol!! Back when Basil had scratched all of his ear fringe off, he got called a Jack Russell Terrier mix a lot, too.  

Though oddly enough, I HAVE had my 20 lb Papillon called a Chihuahua!! Lol


----------



## Papilove

barnetto said:


> Also jealous of the way she curls up on shoulders. You sit down on the couch with Simone and she walks over to the other end as far from you as possible


I forgot to add, it's funny how they all of course have papillon characteristics, but they're all such little individuals. I couldn't get rid of batty. She is glued to me when I'm sitting down or sleeping.


----------



## lucidity

Ugh, yes, the Chihuahua comments! It's so annoying! I just got one today... a girl came up to me and said, "so your dog.. he's a Chihuahua mixed with what?" -___-"" And USUALLY when you tell them, "no, he/she's a Papillon".... they just look at you suspiciously trying to figure out what the heck you just said. And then sometimes they'll think it's some kind of "designer breed". *facepalm*


----------



## Laurelin

Yes I have to explain that it's not a designer breed. I say papillon and they say "That's chihuahua mixed with what?" "Well actually they're a purebred." They also have been called toy collies on occasion too. 

The most hilarious one was when someone was convinced they were shih tzus. Wtf?

I also get pomeranian a lot and pekignese (?) some too.


----------



## barnetto

I've had a few people recognize them. It always came as a surprise when they do.

I was out with Simone when the mailman came and he called Simone a cute little Papillon. A few chihuahua comments, but most of the people that actually come up and talk to me ask what they are, they probably see something isn't quite right for them to be a chihuahua.

Nothing against chihuahuas, but I find Paps way cuter


----------



## spugs

Hiya, I havent been on here for ages but i thought I'd stick some pics on to show you how my paps getting on  Shes one year old now and is still tiny, weighs in at 3.9lbs! Shes a right character and a complete lap dog. Sadly her fringe and tail plume arent what they should be as my other dog Alfie pulls her about by them!! Shes Roxy by the way  Ive had a look through some of the pics and all your dogs are beautiful makes me want to add another pap to mine 





























photos wont work!!!! heres the flicka address 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4783296691/in/photostream/


----------



## Laurelin

Wow she is adorable! And tiny! 

Mine always go straight for the fringe too. It's like a natural handle to drag your siblings around by.

Oh an everyone needs more than one as far as I'm concerned. They're especially fun in groups of five.


----------



## Crantastic

Show pictures!

This is Herby the German import:










Lola, bred by Crystal's breeder (they also have the same mother):



















Lola's sister, Candy:










Sully:










And Zera. This breeder is hoping to get some more black and whites into her lines, as those are becoming more and more uncommon (because good pap people breed for structure, not color, and the red sables are the most common):










I got to play with all of these little guys (and a few others) quite a bit today. It was fun!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Roxy is looking so adorable! We haven't seen her in forever!

Great pictures Crantastic! I believe Lola is either a sibling of Tip's or our of the same breeding. I met her when she was staying with Nia's breeder in Vancouver. The first thing she did was bark one loudly at me to show her disapproval when I tried to pet her LOL. My mom thought she was very pretty and wanted her instead of a puppy!!

Which kennel is Herbie out of? Is he a vom Cavalierchen dog? I haven't seen too many German dogs around here, he looks awesome. Gorgeous fringes!


----------



## Laurelin

I love Lola and Candy! Around ehre it seems even though red and whites are really popular most the specials around are b/w or tri. I think it's partially because tris and b/ws have better fringe usually and they also look 'cleaner' to me. Also interesting to me is how vastly different breed type is in this breed and yet all are still 'correct'. I like that.

PS- this is the most replied to topic on the picture forum, LOL!


----------



## Papilove

Hey guys, on the pap judges group that just started on yahoo someone mentioned that US judges withhold placement from dogs with ticking on their white areas. Is that true?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I'm not sure but it shouldn't be. Although the standard does say blaze (especially even blaze) is preferred over no blaze, it says ticking is acceptable I believe.

I've seen some heavily ticked dogs finish in Canada, not sure what the deal is in the US.

By the way, now that Laurelin mentioned different types of different lines of Paps, I'm curious about favorite breed type? Describe your perfect type/structure for your ideal show dog!

I would say mine is light boned, with a relatively small skull and head with a long refined muzzle. I like very fancy, heavy coated Paps. I'm not a huge fan of teh English line dogs with their big dome heads, plus they're heavier boned as well. I'm a huge fan of Forussi dogs, I think for now, if I decided to get a show dog, I would try to get one from them. One of the breeders I know has one right now and he's just an absolute sweetheart! Very typey, sound but best of all extremely intelligent and willing to please.


----------



## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> Hey guys, on the pap judges group that just started on yahoo someone mentioned that US judges withhold placement from dogs with ticking on their white areas. Is that true?


I'm not sure. I do know before we started showing Beau we were told we should cover his ticking. But then a year or so later when we started showing him we never did cover his ticking and he placed just fine. Finished in a few weeks with ticking. 

So I'd say generally not. It's becoming more 'acceptable' and even favored by some people as a throw back to their spaniel heritage. I've seen some very heavily ticked papillons showing around here. Ticking has never been a fault at all. It does sometimes make a dog look less clean or less well groomed than the flashier dogs. This is also why there's a trend towards more and more white on dogs compared to decades past.


----------



## Papilove

Thanks for the answers. It will be interesting what people on the list say about particular judges and if it is true (personal preference) for some. (Shouldn't be, but you know it happens, lol).


----------



## Equinox

These pictures were taken half a year ago, at a show in January. I've already shared a couple of these, but mention of a black and white Papillon made me refer back to these. I've actually seen several black/white Papillons walking down the street, but I have no idea if they were bred for color or show lines.

A black/white Papillon


















And is the other a tri? *knows nothing about Papillons*









And a few more









Not amused.


----------



## lucidity

Yup, that other dog is a classic tri, like Cadence  The brown one is what we call a "red sable".

The dog in that last photo has an intriguing colour... I can't make up my mind if he/she's a hound tri (like Mia)... or some kind of liver.


----------



## Papilove

I just love the couple of pictures of that b/w. I sure hope Batty gets that much coat. Her sire was very heaily coated and beautiful. Mom had quite a bit of coat for a bitch that had just had a litter, but she wasn't in great coat overall. I think Bats should have a nice coat as an adult.


----------



## Equinox

I am looking forward to watching Batty grow up. She will become a beautiful girl for sure, with plenty of spunk. That black/white Papillon in the picture was a firecracker, too... but then again, looks like most Paps are!


----------



## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I'm not sure but it shouldn't be. Although the standard does say blaze (especially even blaze) is preferred over no blaze, it says ticking is acceptable I believe.
> 
> I've seen some heavily ticked dogs finish in Canada, not sure what the deal is in the US.
> 
> By the way, now that Laurelin mentioned different types of different lines of Paps, I'm curious about favorite breed type? Describe your perfect type/structure for your ideal show dog!
> 
> I would say mine is light boned, with a relatively small skull and head with a long refined muzzle. I like very fancy, heavy coated Paps. I'm not a huge fan of teh English line dogs with their big dome heads, plus they're heavier boned as well. I'm a huge fan of Forussi dogs, I think for now, if I decided to get a show dog, I would try to get one from them. One of the breeders I know has one right now and he's just an absolute sweetheart! Very typey, sound but best of all extremely intelligent and willing to please.


I was going to ask this! lol

I prefer the old American lines which unfortunately aren't existing much anymore. Most of them have been crossed to Japanese or Swedish by now. Our dogs are more moderate and less exaggerated. On the other hand, our lines are the least refined and the least consistent. But a good mostly American dog is hard to beat.

Prince is probably my favorite out there at the moment. (Also is Mia's uncle). He has enough coat and fringe that its clear he's a pap and not a chi. He's refined in looks and proportional. 










I also like this dog too, showing movement.










And as far as head type, I love this look:










All those belong to the Braylors. I'd probably go to them again if I got another and hopefully will get my foundation from them. I also like that a lot of their dogs are going on to do performance venues and doing well in them. 

I like the Japanese and Swedish dogs (essentially the same type to me because the JKC dogs are just a few gens from Sweden/Belgium usually). But I think they're getting overdone. Especially in coat, angles, and leg length. Many of them are too short in leg. The coats are draping the ground... it's just too much imo. I like the more refined heads on these type dogs though. 

The English dogs are too coarse for me, but that said two of ours are pretty English in lineage and looks.



lucidity said:


> Yup, that other dog is a classic tri, like Cadence  The brown one is what we call a "red sable".
> 
> The dog in that last photo has an intriguing colour... I can't make up my mind if he/she's a hound tri (like Mia)... or some kind of liver.


Liver is a DQ so I'm gonna guess it's a hound. It does look liver though in that light.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm not sure if I ever posted these. They're a few years old.

This dog is really really ticked for a papillon


----------



## Laurelin

Beau Sr










This one is Kid:










Joonas:










Victor and a puppy Gigi:










*cough* (Yeah this is my Beau)



















_Almost _makes me miss showing. 

And I forgot to show you guys this dog. His name is Blast and is some sort of relative to Mia. I just thought he was GORGEOUS! I want one with this much color.










Lauren will stop spamming the thread now.


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal's breeder and I have similar taste in papillons. She breeds for a more pronounced stop and her dogs are usually slightly bigger and longer than the other local breeders' dogs. Lola and Candy are both good examples of the type I like (as is my Crystal), and their dad, Dexter, is one of my favorite papillons, period. Here's a pic of him from her website:










Michiyo-Fir: Candy and Lola are actually from her most recent litter (October 15, 2009) -- they have another sister, Sugar, and two brothers, Stick and Munch. Rose is their mom too, and their dad is Dexter. I remember Tip and Pin and siblings, though -- same mom, but their dad was Diablo, right?

The German import, Herby, is from: Int Ch. US I. Ch. Can. Ch Ringland's Disco Dan x Hundebuden's Jar Jar Pondas Ding, apparently. He's a Pondas dog, if that means anything to you. I don't know much about the overseas breeders.


----------



## lucidity

Hmm.. I think I just haven't scrutinized dogs enough to know what I like, lol! But I have to say, that I really, really love Crystal's look. I love her fur, fringing, & head! She's very, very pretty


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I love a lot of Braylor dogs as well. I think they generally have a bit of a longer head than some other breeders breed for. I think Braylor dogs are one of my favorites for US kennels. 

I guess what I like is the over exaggerated coat type.

This is a dog that a local breeder imported. He's exactly the type I like, especially his head. He's also the sweetest dog ever!










Another head that I absolutely adore!









One more head









One of my favorites! I also like how his ears aren't overdone. Some Paps I see have very very long draping coats as well as huuuge fringe. I think that's too much.









For example, I think this is too much fringe









Can't forget Kirby of course! He has a gorgeous head, with a great coat. 









One of my Canadian favorites









I almost bought a puppy from this guy too. Love him!


----------



## Papilove

I think that's too much too. When the ears are overdone like that it's like the weight of the fringe pulls them down too far sideways. It also just in general makes the ears look to heavy, rather than light, breezy and 'butterfly'. 

Love this:









This is amazing! But I haven't seen many dogs with this much coat overall. You can't even really see the legs at all standing still. 








I would love to have that as long as it isn't so much the ears are too heavy.


----------



## Laurelin

I like that hound tris head. Coat is a bit much though imo. As far as head type, it's greatly interpretation of the standard. It should be 1/3 the length and width of the skull but other than that there is a lot of variation. I'd rather too long than too short, personally. Too short and they start looking like chis and can have less space for teeth. In a breed that already has dentition problems this is a pretty big deal. Mia's muzzle is too narrow for my tastes.

Just from having Mia and Summer and then Rose and Beau there's something to be said about having a more moderate coat. They don't tangle NEAR as bad as Rose. Now, Mia will get more coat still since she's just over 1 year. But her parents are pretty moderate.

I like the Braylor's dogs type but I really like the moderation and the performance aspect. Braylor's Desi just recently earned his MACH. I bet Mia's brother, Dallas reaches his MACH too. Mia's got to do a lot to catch up, lol. 

I also love Denzel and Loteki dogs.


----------



## barnetto

Love the show pap pictures ^_^

Their coats are lovely. My two won't stop going at each other's tails and stuff, so I'm resigned to getting my Papillon coat craving satisfied through the internet. On the bright side they might not need as much grooming.

But since I'm pretty sure mine don't mind my infidelities, please keep posting pics!


----------



## Laurelin

You'll be surprised how much they'll start putting on pretty soon. It can take up to 4 years to get a mature coat on a papillon. The best way to estimate is to look at their parents and see how much coat the parents have.


----------



## Papilove

What keeps happening to my POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I type them up and the danged things just DISAPPEAR. It's getting really aggravating.


Now, again... just got back from the vet. Batty had her second shot, and had them do a fecal on her (clean, yay) and she got her heartguard and frontline for the month, yippee... okay, now. According to the big scale, she weighs 4 pounds. I read somewhere that at a certain age (can't remember what it was) you can double the weight and figure that will be the adult size (or therabouts). If that age is 12 weeks she's heading toward being 8 pounds, that's not bad. If the age is 16 weeks she's going to be a monster! LOL Does anyone know what that age is where you can double the weight and come up with what they'll weight as an adult (round about).?


----------



## barnetto

Thanks Laurelin. I know that's meant to cheer me up, but I have seen pictures of their parents from shortly after the rescue got them. The backyard breeder had them in these outdoor dog runs with little protection from the elements. I didn't see any ear fringe on the mom or dad. So I don't know if its their genetics, their environment, or maybe the breeder kept them trimmed so they wouldn't need grooming.


----------



## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> What keeps happening to my POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I type them up and the danged things just DISAPPEAR. It's getting really aggravating.
> 
> 
> Now, again... just got back from the vet. Batty had her second shot, and had them do a fecal on her (clean, yay) and she got her heartguard and frontline for the month, yippee... okay, now. According to the big scale, she weighs 4 pounds. I read somewhere that at a certain age (can't remember what it was) you can double the weight and figure that will be the adult size (or therabouts). If that age is 12 weeks she's heading toward being 8 pounds, that's not bad. If the age is 16 weeks she's going to be a monster! LOL Does anyone know what that age is where you can double the weight and come up with what they'll weight as an adult (round about).?


That doesn't work so well with toy breeds. Mia was 4.5 lbs at 16 weeks and topped out at 6 lbs. I would expect Batty to end up around 8 or so lbs. They grow fast then stop a lot sooner than large dogs.



barnetto said:


> Thanks Laurelin. I know that's meant to cheer me up, but I have seen pictures of their parents from shortly after the rescue got them. The backyard breeder had them in these outdoor dog runs with little protection from the elements. I didn't see any ear fringe on the mom or dad. So I don't know if its their genetics, their environment, or maybe the breeder kept them trimmed so they wouldn't need grooming.


Poor parents! I didn't know yours were rescues. Good on you for saving the poor guys. 

They may surprise you yet though.


----------



## Papilove

Thanks Laurelin. I'm not going to worry about it. Neither of her parents were huge, and I kind of think that big floor pad scale at the vet is 'off' a bit, as scary as that kind of sounds. My digital scale here says she weighs 2.5 pounds, which is a lot closer to what I would have guessed from feel weight. In any case, I was just curious because 4 pounds seemed so big to me for an 11.5 week pap puppy.


----------



## barnetto

I don't see a picture of their mom yet (and she's no longer on the adoptable page), but here's a picture of their dad:










He looks so bald


----------



## lucidity

Cadence weighed 3.8lbs at 11 weeks old.  His regular weight now is 9lbs.. don't think he's gonna put on anymore!


----------



## Papilove

thanks, maybe the 4 pounds is right. she sure doesn't feel that heavy but maybe my scale is wrong. I do know that she is growing some. She's starting to look lankier, just a little, and she's lost a lot of tail fluff, it looks almost 'ratty' compared to the rest of her. Her legs are loosing a lot of the fluff too. She's loosing some on the body but not as fast on that area as the limbs and tail.


----------



## Laurelin

barnetto said:


> I don't see a picture of their mom yet (and she's no longer on the adoptable page), but here's a picture of their dad:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He looks so bald


There's lots of reasons he may or may not have fringe. Mine like to chew each other's fringe off.


----------



## barnetto

I hadn't heard of those weight prediction rules of thumb before, but the vet today predicted 8lbs for Pepin and 6lbs for Simone. They weighed in today at 4lbs for Pepin and 3.5lbs for Simone and they're about 4 months old right now (and also full of food and poop since we went in an hour after their breakfast). I keep hoping they have a late growth spurt and become 12lb papillons because I keep worrying I'll step on one again. 

Anyways, since this is a "picture" thread, I've got these moving pictures
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kdVjlxj1u7HQemF0zNNMLo9Ad4h4jUXgGOQVedVBcJ4?feat=directlink
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JP_09zv28_EGaIMu40vtPo9Ad4h4jUXgGOQVedVBcJ4?feat=directlink
of their introduction to frozen water and some playing. 

Still haven't had enough time to upload the frozen water video where they remove the ice from the bowl and start playing hockey on the kitchen floor. We let them at it again last night and Pepin wouldn't stop barking at the bowl when it was frozen solid and he couldn't get it to spin around the bowl with his paw.


----------



## Papilove

Barnetto, they are simply adorable.


Now after watching those videos, though, and seeing what their weights were, I am convinced that the vet was wrong on Batty's weight. There is no way she's as big as either Simone or Pepin. Getting there, but nowhere near as leggy or tall. I can see she's grown in the 3.5 weeks I've had her, but not that much. When I weighed her a week after I got her she was 2 pounds. I could see her weighing close to 3 pounds, maybe even 3 pounds now, but not 4.


----------



## barnetto

Hi Papilove!

Any new pictures of Batty? No pressure, just whenever you get a chance...


----------



## Papilove

LOL I need to get a 12 week pic. Was going to do it today. maybe if she perks up. right now she's not quite herself after a frontline application.


----------



## barnetto

Hi Papilove!

Any new Batty pics? No pressure, but you can't talk about Batty growing up and changing and there's no pics 

Here's Simone and Pepin at 10/11 weeks when they were 2 and 2.2lbs:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/niHLajxn35FamKCa7hTNVB5nGn0AERnFNzoCKrMzUiM?feat=directlink


----------



## Papilove

YES very much the same size range there! In the video too. Thanks for the pics! When she's up again I'm going to reweigh her on my scale again like I did a cople weeks ago. I wouldn't be surprised at 2.5-3 pounds. Maybe a little surprised at 3.5 pounds. We'll see.

Here ya go... Batty's 12 week pics


































Also, I weighed her again on my digital scale and she weighed in at 2.5 pounds. 1/2 a pound heavier than when I weighed her last, and more to what I thought she was from looks, feel, etc... She is not skinny, nor fat, she has a solid feel to her, but I can feel ribs if I run my fingers along her sides. She is eating well, about 2/3 a cup a day plus a few treats. To be even more sure went upstairs to the old dial scale and put her on that. She came in two and a 1/2 notches (halfway between 0 and 5 pounds) so that makes it 2.5 pounds on there too. The vet's 4 pound size kind of shocked me. Not because that would be a horrible weight, just because it didn't make sense with everything considered. I don't know how she came up with 4 pounds, but at any rate. No matter what she actually weighs, she's the love of my life.

Oh, I just thought about it. I should go look and see if I can find the old rabbit hanging scale I have somewhere in the barn. That would be another good way to get a very accurate measurement on her.


----------



## barnetto

Yeah, she doesn't look 4lbs there. 

Very cute ^_^
I think you can see the inquisitiveness and personality coming through in those photos.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh goodness, they're all so cute! Batty is freaking adorable. I'd love a black and white next. 

And Barnetto I think it's your Simone (the top pic) but he looks a lot like Beau did as a puppy. I love the freckled nose.


----------



## lucidity

I think it's pretty hard to give an accurate estimate of a puppy's adult weight, particularly in small breeds like Paps.. I mean, 5lbs and 6lbs really feel like a huuugggee difference when you pick them up, lol.

I just weighed Cadence, and he only weighs 7.5lbs right now!! I can't believe he lost an entire 1.5lbs at boarding.


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## barnetto

@Laurelin,
the top one, the puppy sleeping, is actually Pepin. I love that photo. I miss his stubby little legs.

@Lucidity
When you're only 9/7.5lbs, 1.5lbs sounds like a lot. Makes me more nervous about my upcoming vacation. We planned this thing months in advance of when we decided to get our puppies (my dad is hosting a family reunion), so we were planning on boarding them while we were gone for those two weeks. They're doing doggy daycare right now at the same facility (they've been twice, and they're going again today for their third half day), so I'm hoping they'll be adjusted enough that they'll be okay while we're gone.

I hate leaving them >_<
But taking them doesn't seem like a good idea (probably 10 hours of flight time, plus all that time spend in security and customs) and my dad warned me that small dogs are frequently stolen in France and I'd rather not risk that.

They're so young, I'm worried they'll forget me. I'm worried they'll over bond to each other in their strange new environment. They're by far the smallest dogs at the day care, even minuscule in the small dog group, so the daycare staff have been separating them from the small dog group and placing the two of them with a sedate older dog. Pepin seems jumpy after daycare, more prone to barking at no apparent thing, not holding his downs anymore. I'm hoping he acclimatizes and starts to love it.

Anyways...the anxieties of a "parent", I guess.


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## Papilove

Poor little Candace. I hope he is feeling better. How are his paws? It will probably take a little while to gain that weight back  It seems like its much easier to lose than gain.

Barnetto: tough decision, but you're probably right about the travel stresses, and at least they do know the place they'll be staying at, that's a big plus. It will still probably be a little hard on them, but no matter which way you go it will be somewhat hard, and at least you can feel pretty sure they'll be safe.


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## lucidity

His paws are better now, just the base of his nails... they still all have clots in them  Yes, 1.5lbs is a WHOLE LOT! He's so much lighter now when I pick him up, it's scary. You know how it is--it's hard to tell weightloss on a longhaired dog... but a couple of my neighbours came up to me and told me that Cadence looks thinner now, so he must've lost a TON of weight 

Barnetto, I know exactly how you feel!! I had sleepless nights worrying about how Cadence would do during my week away. I contemplated leaving him with friends; but they all work long hours, so I went with boarding instead. Make sure that the boarding place is reliable. You should write down all Pepin's and Simone's quirks down for them, so that if something happens, they have something to refer to. If they like going to daycare there, I don't think they'll have a problem with boarding  Cadence started going to daycare at 4 months, and yes!! He was absolutely the smallest dog there... but he didn't care, though. Apparently he loved all the big dogs right away and only wanted to play with them, lol.


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## spugs

Roxy was just under 2 lbs at 3 months and at just over a year old weighs 3.9lbs. Shes tiny and i didnt expect her to end up so small when i got her  Shes fairly good at avoiding getting stepped on and we've not had any injuries yet but i keep her insured just in case.


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## PappyMom

Aw, another tiny Roxy. =] My little peanut girls is 2 - 2.5 lbs at 16 months old.. She never gets stepped on.. I love seeing all the new puppiesssss.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Love all the puppy pictures so cute! I just got back to Canada today after a 2 week vacation and saw Nia, she definitely didn't forget me. She immediately climbed into my lap and just stayed there.

Nia weighed 5 lbs at both 5-7 months old. She was very skinny according to the vet for a 7 months old puppy at the time because she didn't gain any weight at all after moving in with me, I guess it was stress. Now she's between 6-6.2 lbs at 19 months old. I'm guessing she won't weigh more than 7 lbs ever. Her breeder had estimated her to grow to 8-9 lbs but she eats so little that she's always very slim and light. I think she lost a little bit while I was gone as well but not early as drastic as Cadence. I can feel her ribs a bit better but I don't think she lost more than 1/2 a lb.


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## PappyMom

Do any of you do flyball with your Paps? How do you train to do this? I worry about Roxy not having enough force to remove the ball and the ball being too big for her, but man that girl can run and jump..and she's CRAZY about her ball.. And I also heard that they base the height of the hurdles on the smallest dog on the team..so that'd be a huge advantage for whatever team she'd be on.. How do you find flyball clubs or anything? lol.. I figured I'd ask on here since all of our Paps use the same little kong tennis balls. =P


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## Michiyo-Fir

I really really want to get Nia into it but can't really find a club near us.

How it works is first they just have the dogs run over the hurdles to a person. Then a person hypes up the dog with a chew toy while another person is holding the dog's collar or something like that, then the 1st person with the toy runs over the hurdles. The 2nd person releases the dog when the first person is past all the hurdles and then the dog runs over to grab the chew toy.


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## Papilove

I don't know about training for it, I doubt it would be all that hard really. As far as the large balls, I think I've read that you can use the smaller balls in the box, but I think then all the members of the team have to use the same size???, However, even as a little puppy Batty likes the regular ball, and does not loose it when running even though she does grab it by the fuzz (not sure if that's allowed or not). She has a good enough hold on it to result in a game of tug-o-war if she wants to play keep away at the end.


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## Laurelin

I almost contacted a local flyball team for Mia then decided not to at least yet. I have a few concerns about flyball as a sport and consulted many many sports dog people I really respect and that have more experience in these things than me. The general consensus..... A) people and teams can be extremely competitive in flyball. It depends on the team but flyball is often very cutthroat. B) dogs in flyball tend to have much shorter careers than dogs in other sports. Injury is much more common in flyball and it's harder on the joints than other sports like agility. C) Ball obsessed dogs can be made worse through the hype of flyball. Mia is already very obsessed with her ball. You have to make sure flyball doesn't translate into extreme behavior. D) Many dogs get sooooo excited about flyball that if you're planning on doing other sports, it may hinder you. They see a trial setting and assume flyball. So it's generally recommended that you get a good obedience or agility foundation first. Flyball works by ramping the dog up and up and up whereas in other sports you need drive AND control. So if you're interested in more team oriented sports you need to start those first. 

I still may try flyball, though. But I want a STRONG foundation in agility with Mia first and foremost. Mia starts agility tomorrow.  I would definitely recommend it for anyone with a papillon, they excel in agility.


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## Papilove

I've watched lots of flyball events and can definately see how all those points are true. I am hoping for agility and obedience (and rally) competitions.


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## barnetto

I want to do agility with Pepin and Simone (...not both at the same time)!

I ordered a book about it to read while I'm apart for them two weeks on vacation. And one of the local clubs recommended this to prepare them for it:
http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=874

But...while the general advice all sounds great I'm kind of lost without seeing the examples and progression. I have no idea when/if I should be turning the puppies "on". I'm guessing not for just basic obedience and tricks, and not for the leash walking either. I wish Pepin would look up more while on walks like his sister does, but as long as he's not tugging/stopped I can't complain too much.

Laurelin, or anyone else who has tried agility, do you have any good recommendations for resources? I think I'm not supposed to start them on the equipment until they are one year old, but in the meantime I'm not sure I'm working on the right stuff, or doing things the right way, to prepare them for it.


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## Papilove

JUMPS, JUMPS you are not supposed to start them on JUMPS until they are a year old. (and even that at super low -- ie: on the ground so they can walk over them--heights is not a bad thing). Actually, the age to start active jump training depends a lot on the breed as well, but a year 'should' be okay for a Papillon. I think competition isn't allowed until 16 months (but then again, that's stretching my memory and I haven't checked it). serious training over off the ground jumps should not start until the growth plates are closed. Your vet can help you determine that if you have questions on it. I think it's pretty important in a breed like ours that has a problem with knees. the force of impact on the forelegs upon landing is great, and no need to stress them too early. But having agility equipment 'around' so they can become accustomed to it. See it. walk around it ... all that is never a bad thing. If you can find a 'tunnel' like a child's toy collapsible tunnel, have that in your living room so they can run through it. Things like building a teeter, a-frame or dog walk for your yard is great, but should only be allowed access to, or on when you're around right there to protect them, and should be positioned at low enough heights.

Of course, things like that are expensive to build, and big to have in a small yard if you don't have space. If you can afford it, and have room, not only do the dogs become more acclimated to the items at a young age, but you have them for working with as they get old enough to do them. You can start non-impact agility items as young as you feel they have the concentration and 'agility' to handle them. A pause box can be anything from a circle on the ground to a solid table a few inches off the ground and makes a good training station that is easy to make and useful.

PS-for anyone active currently in the competitive world of agility--have they done away with the pause box (yet)? I know there was talk about it. I kind of hope they don't. I think it's a good idea that shows good control.

Thanks for that "clean run" link. I love the fact that their videos can be bought 'on demand' too so you can watch them instantly instead of waiting for them. Wish the books were available as 'ebooks' too. That would be icing.


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## PappyMom

Thanks for the info guys!! =] I knew I could count on you! 

Laur, do you think it would do anything to Roxy? I mean, this is a dog whose always focused on me.. My family was just visiting from out of state, and my cousin (who actually rehomed her lab/boxer mix puppy, who ended up being too rambunctious for her small kids and she realized she made a huge breed mistake..) was astounded at how much this dog focuses on me. I mean followed me around the house, waiting for me to give her a job to do. She helps me to clean up after kids and company. If I tell her to watch the kids, she won't leave them until I say she can. She's really the perfect dog..I wanted to put her extreme focus and smarts into something that she'd like to do. Maybe I'd be better off with agility too, I just thought of flyball because she adores her tennis ball. I wanted to do agility with Gizmo.. He is crazy graceful, a perfect jumper, and whew, he had drive. I miss him. =[

Papilove, gosssshhhh, I love Batty. I'm convinced on a black and white next. The more I see of her, the more I want another papillon, instead of any other breeds!!


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## Papilove

PappyMom said:


> Papilove, gosssshhhh, I love Batty. I'm convinced on a black and white next. The more I see of her, the more I want another papillon, instead of any other breeds!!


Awwwwwwwwwwwww thank you. I love her much. LOL

As for your question and description of Roxy's temperment. I really think she'd excel in agility and love it. That communication between you will only make her runs stronger and better.


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## barnetto

I think I'm starting to fully understand "the uglies".

I've been thinking Pepin looks a little dirty, but actually his fur has thinned to the point where the freckles on his skin can show through and he doesn't look as white. He got a bath yesterday and after switching to a conditioning shampoo they both feel nice and soft again.


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## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> JUMPS, JUMPS you are not supposed to start them on JUMPS until they are a year old. (and even that at super low -- ie: on the ground so they can walk over them--heights is not a bad thing). Actually, the age to start active jump training depends a lot on the breed as well, but a year 'should' be okay for a Papillon. I think competition isn't allowed until 16 months (but then again, that's stretching my memory and I haven't checked it). serious training over off the ground jumps should not start until the growth plates are closed. Your vet can help you determine that if you have questions on it. I think it's pretty important in a breed like ours that has a problem with knees. the force of impact on the forelegs upon landing is great, and no need to stress them too early. But having agility equipment 'around' so they can become accustomed to it. See it. walk around it ... all that is never a bad thing. If you can find a 'tunnel' like a child's toy collapsible tunnel, have that in your living room so they can run through it. Things like building a teeter, a-frame or dog walk for your yard is great, but should only be allowed access to, or on when you're around right there to protect them, and should be positioned at low enough heights
> 
> Of course, things like that are expensive to build, and big to have in a small yard if you don't have space. If you can afford it, and have room, not only do the dogs become more acclimated to the items at a young age, but you have them for working with as they get old enough to do them. You can start non-impact agility items as young as you feel they have the concentration and 'agility' to handle them. A pause box can be anything from a circle on the ground to a solid table a few inches off the ground and makes a good training station that is easy to make and useful.
> 
> PS-for anyone active currently in the competitive world of agility--have they done away with the pause box (yet)? I know there was talk about it. I kind of hope they don't. I think it's a good idea that shows good control.
> 
> Thanks for that "clean run" link. I love the fact that their videos can be bought 'on demand' too so you can watch them instantly instead of waiting for them. Wish the books were available as 'ebooks' too. That would be icing.


Pause box is still there. 

Barnetto you can start agility at basically any age, you just have to watch their joints. I really wish I had started Mia pretty soon after I got her (6-8 monthis). You need to watch the height of your obstacles mainly but it is never a bad idea to get a dog started getting used to things. You can usually find a beginner's course that focuses on introductions and is okay for puppies. Keep jumps and the a-frames and everything very low. 


Cleanrun is probably the best agility resource out there. If you can get in a class though, do it. Cleanrun has a list of agility clubs 

I've never done flyball so I relaly am not the best person to ask. I'd look into it. I still probably will in the future after Mia's got her agility under her belt. I really just don't want to risk ruining agility for her since that was my primary drive for picking her out.


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## Papilove

barnetto said:


> I think I'm starting to fully understand "the uglies".
> 
> I've been thinking Pepin looks a little dirty, but actually his fur has thinned to the point where the freckles on his skin can show through and he doesn't look as white. He got a bath yesterday and after switching to a conditioning shampoo they both feel nice and soft again.



LMAO, oh no. I have to watch out for that. I bet Batty has a lot of 'skin freckles' she has a lot of ticking on her legs (which make her legs look dirty sometimes).

Batty's getting SO big... lol she is such a ham too.


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## lucidity

Lol, Cadence has ticking on his coat too.. and whenever he goes through a big shedding season, everyone says "WOW! he has black spots on his fur?! I always thought he was all white except for his tail and head!". The uglies are so fun. Their fur never ever gets dirty and they don't need as many baths! Kinda makes me want a short haired dog..


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## Jacksons Mom

Hey Papillon peeps!

I thought I'd intrude on your thread again 'cuz I love Papillons oh so much 

I've kinda got my second dog breed narrowed down, sort of. A 2nd dog is probably a year away, or more. Silky Terrier, Aussie Terrier, Westie, Papillon or I'd look into another Yorkie if I could find an active one and larger one like Jackson.

But do you think a Papillon will be a TOTAL change for me? I realize my list up there ^^ is all terriers, minus the Paps. Everything I keep reading about terriers though... I don't know if I've just been lucky w/ mine, or if it was just his training and socialization from a young age. He's not the typical possessive, guarding, sometimes DA type of dog I often hear about with terriers. He's definitely all terrier when it comes to certain things but not those. He's a typical happy go lucky dog park type dog that is up for anything.

Are Papillons, even if the larger ones, generally pretty fragile? Jackson is 15lbs of muscle, lol. He definitely can play rough if another dog is willing and up for it. He likes to wrestle, get up on hind legs and bear wrestle type thing. He looovess to run. He can run REALLY fast. Typically speaking, at the dog park he usually clicks best with other terriers (Westie's, Cairns, etc) but that's not a rule. He's willing to play with whoever initiates it with him.

Is a Papillon into semi-rough play with other dogs around their size? Are they into other dogs (aka dog park type dog) or more human oriented? Are they typically friendly with strangers? That's one thing that bugs me about Jackson... he is sooo shy around strangers and can get really scared. He doesn't like strange people leaning down to pet him, he kinda shys away in a non aggressive way. I'd like my second dog to be, by nature, more friendly and happy to meet new people. That's Jackson's only major fault.

Anyways... longggg post. But basically, do you think a Papillon would be wrong for me? I love training with Jackson (tricks, agility, etc) and he loves it equally. So I definitely wanted another small dog that is willing and loves to learn new things which I know a Pap should be. Or, should I just stick with what I know, and get a Silky or another small terrier?


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## Laurelin

I can answer based on our crew.  I'm sure everyone else will chime in. 



Jacksons Mom said:


> But do you think a Papillon will be a TOTAL change for me? I realize my list up there ^^ is all terriers, minus the Paps. Everything I keep reading about terriers though... I don't know if I've just been lucky w/ mine, or if it was just his training and socialization from a young age. He's not the typical possessive, guarding, sometimes DA type of dog I often hear about with terriers. He's definitely all terrier when it comes to certain things but not those. He's a typical happy go lucky dog park type dog that is up for anything.


I don't think it would be a total change. They are softer tempered and more human oriented than most terriers I've met. THey're also less tenacious than terriers. Energy level is very similar though. The only small dogs I've met that outlast my paps has been JRTs. (The paps are faster though  )



> Are Papillons, even if the larger ones, generally pretty fragile? Jackson is 15lbs of muscle, lol. He definitely can play rough if another dog is willing and up for it. He likes to wrestle, get up on hind legs and bear wrestle type thing. He looovess to run. He can run REALLY fast. Typically speaking, at the dog park he usually clicks best with other terriers (Westie's, Cairns, etc) but that's not a rule. He's willing to play with whoever initiates it with him.


They're not fragile even thought they look it. Definitely go with a larger one, though. Summer is 8 lbs and pretty sturdy. Papillons in general think they can fly. Summer has jumped of a 6 foot wall, landed and kept going. I don't recommend you let them do that, but none of mine have had size related injuries. Definitely like any small dog, be careful around really big, rough dogs.



> Is a Papillon into semi-rough play with other dogs around their size?


Kind of, but not really. Papillon play style is generally not body slamming, but rather all about chase. They LOVE chase. And practically no small dog will be able to keep up with a papillon once they get going. My boys do rough house with each other 24/7 but my girls never do. They do however like to trip up the boys and yank them around by the tail. A pap would probably wrestle just fine with Jackson. Jackson may have to get used having his ears and tail bit constantly. lol



> Are they into other dogs (aka dog park type dog) or more human oriented?


It depends. They love love love people the most. It is what they are bred to do and they do it well. Dog reactivity is not uncommon nor is it the norm either. None of my girls have any desire to play with strange dogs but my boys see strange dogs as OMG NEW BEST FRIEND! But my girls love playing with dogs within their family group and dogs they know. If they meet a dog (no matter the size) and are given time to get to know them, they get along smashingly. Overall the breed is very dog friendly. I've been to lots of papillon meetups as well as had my dogs around many many breeder's crews and most dogs get along just fine. We have had up to 16 in a house and not once had any issues with them getting along. Summer at the dog park is very telling though, she ignores the dogs and woos all the people. 



> Are they typically friendly with strangers?


My two are polar opposites on this front. Mia is suspicious of strangers and Summer wants to make out with them. Generally they're in between. My boys have all again been very happy go lucky and love everyone. Summer loooooves people. Mia greets most people ok but is a little aloof. Rose is very timid but had a very bad start to life. Overall they are not golden retriever friendly. They discern between their people and other people. But most are pretty darn friendly with strangers imo. 



> That's one thing that bugs me about Jackson... he is sooo shy around strangers and can get really scared. He doesn't like strange people leaning down to pet him, he kinda shys away in a non aggressive way. I'd like my second dog to be, by nature, more friendly and happy to meet new people. That's Jackson's only major fault.
> 
> Anyways... longggg post. But basically, do you think a Papillon would be wrong for me? I love training with Jackson (tricks, agility, etc) and he loves it equally. So I definitely wanted another small dog that is willing and loves to learn new things which I know a Pap should be. Or, should I just stick with what I know, and get a Silky or another small terrier?


I think a pap would do just fine! I think you may want a male instead of a female. The males are generally goobers, haha. The girls are a bit more... serious and moody. They're FANTASTIC dogs though all around. Supremely intelligent like you would not believe. Very very clingy and affectionate. You will never ever be alone again.  They bond far closer than any other breed I've had. Very attentive little guys and so so sweet. They also have great senses of humor and quirks, especially the boys.


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## Lil RiRi

Um... I thought I just accidently replied.. But, I don't know.. I haven't been good about taking pictures nor posting nor updating or anything. I've been the worse... Anyways, Chloe - 9 months + Riley - 19 1/2 months.
































lol.. Riley's not very photogenic!


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## PappyMom

Jackson's Mom -- I think a larger pap would be a great fit for you, too! My Gizmo was 13 lbs, and he was solid. He loved playing rough..and he was definitely tough...a bite from a pitbull, we're in the e-vet and he's trying to get down to play with a great dane...4 stitches in his butt and a cone on his head and he's running amuck the front yard, yipping for the neighborhood dogs to come play. Roxy, my tiny girl, will rough-house even though she's 2 lbs and delicate. I was never worried about Giz the way I am with her.. And definitely, what Laur said, Paps like to fly, and man can they RUN. They look like little bunnies going like 30 mph..lmao..


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## barnetto

Anyone ever heard of or been to one of these?

http://www.zoomroomonline.com/

A co-worker told me one just opened up and it looks really close to home. The other agility places are all way off where I guess they could get land cheap and outdoors (dunno about fencing, would need to contact them directly).

@Jackson's Mom
Only have my two puppies, but going to agree with Laurelin. Pepin is definitely the goober and Simone can be moody, though I think she focuses better. Pepin has picked up tricks way faster, but barks at passerby and is sometimes skittish for no reason that I can tell around people. Simone just wants to be petted and loved by everyone.

They seem to prefer playing with each other but I can get their attention and have both of them doing obedience/tricks for me. Their focus on me has improved as they've gotten older (they're only 4mos right now) and I've kept stuffing them with food.

I posed some older pics of Pepin in a splint from when I knocked him into a planter. Nothing broke, everything was in good shape. I wouldn't recommend kicking/stepping on them on a regular basis, but they don't seem as delicate as they look.


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## Papilove

Jackson's Mom: I haven't had one long, but I think a Papillon would be a great choice. Ditto PappyMom's comment about looking like bunnies going 30 mph. When Batty gets going she's a little black and white blur. She looks like a bunny on crack.


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## Jacksons Mom

^^ Thanks for all the amazing replies! 

I think you guys are right, I think a Papillon would definitely fit in. I definitely would like another male, like you all recommended. I had girl dogs growing up all my life and Jackson is my first boy... I've always said, since getting him, I will have boy dogs forever from now on! I love the girls and all of course, but the boys just seem so much more happy to please you, whereas the females I've had were always like "ugh, okay..." LOL. Plus I love that boys seem to be more needy and less independent. I like that in a dog! 

I definitely would love to go the rescue route but it seems a lot of rescues don't particularly like my living situation. With me being young (20), in college, etc. It's a shame really because I could give a dog an amazing forever home... I don't think people realize how much I actually do with my dog. But I understand most people my age aren't right to own a dog. But anyways, if rescue wouldn't work out, is there anyone who can direct me to a place to find a reputable breeder in the Maryland area? I'd be willing to go into certain parts of VA or PA too.


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## PappyMom

I did find this breeder in Maryland: http://www.circledpapillons.com/

And here's a list of breeders in or near Maryland, I don't know how reputable each one is, I didn't check them out myself yet...but hope it helps!
http://www.doggies.com/Papillon/Maryland


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## Papilove

This breeder (was on the list) is in NJ but is a serious show breeder who is very conscientious 

http://involopapillons.com/involo.html


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## Laurelin

I wrote this up for someone on another board. IT's very detailed but I think it's pretty good for those first interested in the breed.

*General Description*:

The papillon is a lively, highly intelligent and alert companion dog bred down from European working spaniels (with possibly some spitz breed like pomeranian or volpino italiano added in to account for the erect ears). They have a long history of being bred as companions to European royalty and early type Continental Toy Spaniels can be seen in numerous paintings dating back to the 1200s. 

The most identifiable feature of the papillon is large, well fringed 'butterfly' ears. The name papillon comes from the french word for butterfly. The phalene (fah-len) is named after the French word for moth. 

*Temperament*:

This is from a new owner's guide to papillons by Deborah Wood. She words it much better than I could:



> Papillons don't fit the stereotype of little lap dogs. They are energetic, busy, curious, cheerful, bright little dogs. There is probably no accomplishment in the world of dogs that a papillon has not achieved. They work as loyal service dogs to people with disabilities, and some of the top obedience dogs in the country have been papillons. They also excel at the physically demanding sports of agility and flyball. Papillons aren't for everyone but for those of us that love them, there is no more wonderful breed in the world...
> 
> Although most people are first drawn to the breed because of tis appearance, it doesn't take long to realize that what really sets papillons apart from other breeds is their personalities. It isn't coincidence that papillons are among the most successful breeds in all of dogdom in obedience and agility competitions. Most papillons are intelligent, problem solving, active little dogs.
> 
> Many papillons and owners face heartache when people confuse the dog's adorable outward appearance with the personality of the dog underneath the fur. If you want a quiet lap dog who enjoys nothing more than spending the day snuggled up on a couch calmly watching television with you, then another breed is probably a better choice. If however, you're looking for a fun-loving, adventurous dog who likes to learn tricks, wants to go wherever you do, and loves to play games, a papillon might fill the bill.
> 
> Papillons love to learn and enjoy a challenge. Talk with papillon owners and you will commonly hear stories of dogs who learned to open kitchen cabinets or trick other dogs out of toys. Papillons excel at canine sports and earn more obedience, agility, and tracking titles than most other toy breeds combined. Papillons have been stars in agility trials since the sport became popular in the US. In 1999 the AKC added the title of Master Agility Champion (MACH) and 3 of the first 16 dogs of all breeds to earn this title were papillons. In fact the first dog of any breed to recieve top honors in conformation, obedience, tracking and agility is a papillon OTCh Ch Loteki Sudden Impulse UDX TDX MX (MX was the top agility title when 'Zack' was competing).... In 1999 a Papillon named Peek was named Delta Society's Service Animal of the Year.
> 
> While it sounds intriguing to have such a clever, athletic dog, think twice. A dog with enough drive to work as a service dog or be a top competitor maybe too much of a handful to be content as a family pet. Many papillons can leap 4 feet in the air from a standstill, meaning careful management for your papillon is necessary.
> 
> Although most all papillons are lively, people oriented dogs there is a range of energy levels and a need for constant entertainment in papillons. Some papillons reflect the more laid back personality of their spaniel ancestors while others are more like miniature border collies and will generally get themselves into terrible trouble if they don't have at least an hour or two of highly interactive, demanding activity in a day.
> 
> While papillons are busy, hardy, and athletic dogs, they are also very sensitive dogs. After all this breed has had a thousand years to perfect its relationship with humans. Be prepared for the next 15 years of your life to be spent with two bright, brown eyes staring at you, waiting for you to play. Don't expect to spend a waking moment alone again; not when you're cooking dinner, reading a book, not even when you're in the bathroom. Papillons are truly only happy when they are with the people they love.
> 
> Some papillons are shy. Be aware of this tendency and if a soft dog isn't for you then be careful when you select your papillon. On the other hand, other papillons are very pushy and the breed has even been called 'little tyrants'. These bold, quick, smart dogs can decide they are far more clever than any human.
> 
> The papillon is not necessarily a cuddle-bunny. Many first time papillon owners are shocked when their dog would prefer not to cuddle.If you're envisioning a dog who loves to cuddle, another breed might be better for you.


Sorry that's so long, but that's the best description I've personally come across for them. She just nails what makes this breed what it is.


*Health Problems*:
- Patellar Luxation
- Progressive Retinal Atrophy
- Epilepsy (not very common but becoming more common) 

Group: Toy 
Other names: Continental Toy Spaniel, Phalene (drop ears)
Country of Origin: Belgium/France
Height (there is no weight limit): Up to 12 inches. Over 11 inches is faulted
Colours: Always particolor. Which means white with patching. Must have black nose. Common colors- black and white, sable and white, red and white, tricolor, lemon and white.
Coat: a silky single coat that sheds some continuously all year. Papillons are considered a wash and wear breed and do not need extensive grooming or clipping. 
Head: Slightly rounded with a good stop. Muzzle should be tapering and approximately 1/3 and width of the length of the skull.
Ears: Erect or Dropped. Always large and well fringed. Ears are well rounded and set at approximately a 45 degree angle.
Eyes: dark, round, not bulging, of medium size and alert in expression
Bite: Scissor 
Build: slightly longer than tall. Athletic, well angulated, and well balanced. Should always have the appearance of elegance. Motion should be akin to a large breed. They should not hackney and should move very freely and efficiently.
Tail: Set high and well arched over the body giving them the nickname of squirrel dog. It should not be curled tightly and should have a nice 'teacup handle' appearance.

*Miscellaneous Information*:

The papillon is often referred to as the working toy dog or the border collie of the toy group. They are well known for their intelligence (usually ranked in the top 10 most intelligent breeds lists) and abilities to excel in many arenas of dog sports. Papillons make wonderful agility or obedience competitors and are being seen more in the arena of flyball, tracking, and more. They tend to make superb therapy dogs and are even occasionally used as service dogs. 

There are two varieties of papillon, or more correctly there are two versions of phalenes.  The phalene is the drop eared variety and is the original breed type. For the first few hundred years in early breed development all papillons had dropped ears. For unknown reasons in the 1800s the erect ears became much more fashionable. There are several theories as to how the erect ears of the papillon variety came to be. In modern days phalenes are much rarer than their butterfly counterparts although there has been much effort by breeders to preserve the original breed type.

Other than ear set there is no difference between a phalene and a papillon. In the US both varieties are shown together as the same breed.

A phalene:










A Papillon:

Ch Flashpoint Mission Possible










Doing what they do best:



















A show champion: Ch Forevr Reign of Fire










Proper papillon expression (aka I <3 this dog LOL)










Anyone interested in papillons should look here: Braylor's Papillons: Versatility

You can get a very good feel for the breed there. (I just noticed Mia got her own section on that page :rofl1

Other links:

Judging Seminar on Papillons: Online Judging Seminar for the Papillon
Papillon Club of America: Welcome to the Papillon Club of America
Papillon breeder list: PCA Breeders List
Papillon rescues: Papillon Club Of America Rescue Trust Homepage
Welcome to Papillon 911 Rescue and Adoption, Inc.
Papillon Haven Rescue - Rescued Papillons for immediate adoption
Papillon grooming: Papillon Show Grooming
Braylor's Papillons: Papillon Grooming
Welcome to Holly Huxford's Animal Page! (pet geared)
Papillon color genetics:Braylor's Papillons: Papillon Color Descriptions with Pictures
Papillon Information Site


----------



## Laurelin

Jacksons Mom said:


> ^^ Thanks for all the amazing replies!
> 
> I think you guys are right, I think a Papillon would definitely fit in. I definitely would like another male, like you all recommended. I had girl dogs growing up all my life and Jackson is my first boy... I've always said, since getting him, I will have boy dogs forever from now on! I love the girls and all of course, but the boys just seem so much more happy to please you, whereas the females I've had were always like "ugh, okay..." LOL. Plus I love that boys seem to be more needy and less independent. I like that in a dog!
> 
> I definitely would love to go the rescue route but it seems a lot of rescues don't particularly like my living situation. With me being young (20), in college, etc. It's a shame really because I could give a dog an amazing forever home... I don't think people realize how much I actually do with my dog. But I understand most people my age aren't right to own a dog. But anyways, if rescue wouldn't work out, is there anyone who can direct me to a place to find a reputable breeder in the Maryland area? I'd be willing to go into certain parts of VA or PA too.


Here is the PCA breeder list: PCA Breeders List

One of my all time favorite breeders is in Maryland.

http://www.denzelpaps.com/


----------



## Papilove

wow, Mia had several pics on there, playing fetch and then the two in 'hunters' lol.


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## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> wow, Mia had several pics on there, playing fetch and then the two in 'hunters' lol.


I send Brandi pictures of her a lot. But she just recently added a bunch of those. So I was like whoa as I scrolled down past all the Mia pictures lol.


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## Nargle

Is that Nard with a chinchilla?


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## Laurelin

Nargle said:


> Is that Nard with a chinchilla?


Yep! All five of my dogs are on there, actually. Brandi asked for papillon pictures on pap fancy once.


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## Papilove

Ack, I didn't even recognize that was nard. then again, I was really mesmerized by that chinchilla... that is so amazing looking, I had to convince myself it was a real animal and not a stuffed toy. LOL


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## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> Ack, I didn't even recognize that was nard. then again, I was really mesmerized by that chinchilla... that is so amazing looking, I had to convince myself it was a real animal and not a stuffed toy. LOL


That's my Scout. 




























They all do good with her except Mia. Mia tries to kill her, LOL!

Hey Michiyo, I have a question! I know someone who is interested in a small breed dog. They're trying to decide if a papillon or a longhaired chi are for them.... I have like... NO chi experience and I know your family has both a LH chi and a pap. Can you tell me a bit about them both and the differences between the two breeds?


----------



## Papilove

Thanks for the chin pics. She is really amazing! I've never seen one in a pet setting like that. Actually never seen one in any setting.


----------



## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> Thanks for the chin pics. She is really amazing! I've never seen one in a pet setting like that. Actually never seen one in any setting.


She's really cool. She's errr... 6 or 7 years old now. Very easily handled, loves scratches under the chin.


----------



## barnetto

Cute chinchilla. Is it used to teach the dogs to leave the small furry things alone?


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## Jacksons Mom

^^^ Thanks for the amazing info on breeders and Paps in general.  I am sooo intrigued by this breed. I think they've definitely moved to my #2 spot for a second dog (I still can't get Silky out of my brain...) but ahhh they are really coming in close. You guys might have to convert me! 

I really love the classic tri color and hound tri color that were posted on that website. Really beautiful.


----------



## Crantastic

Papilove said:


> Hey guys, on the pap judges group that just started on yahoo someone mentioned that US judges withhold placement from dogs with ticking on their white areas. Is that true?





Michiyo-Fir said:


> I've seen some heavily ticked dogs finish in Canada, not sure what the deal is in the US.


I missed this discussion when it was first going on, but I, too, have seen some heavily ticked dogs finish here. This is one Crystal's breeder has:










She's using her (along with Crystal's brother) for her next litter. She doesn't like this dog's head much, but is hoping Dipper will balance that out and she'll end up with pups with the look she prefers. I don't think she has a problem with the ticking, though, and Mitzy was a champion by the time she was just over a year old.

(Mitzy is a Nicomen dog, Michiyo-Fir!)


----------



## Papilove

Thanks Cran. I'm still wavering on re-entering the conformation ring. I enjoy it. I have no plans/desires to breed, so part of me is like, why do it then, leave it to the breeders... but I like it, and I think since puppies can enter at six months old, those who are bound for other competitive ring sport get the experience. We'll see. She's very nice, although I think she's a little weaker in front than I'd like. I'll watch and see how she develops over the next month or so, and then decide if I want to take her into some conformation classes at Stone City, or just wait and start puppy obedience around that time.










Sorry for the quality of the picture. I couldn't convince Batty to stand still. LOL The question I have is this, okay, she's loosing all her baby fuzz, which I totally expected. It's about 1/2 gone. However, she has some hair, most of it on the back of her neck like a mane, that is a different texture than the puppy fuzz, it's real silky, and about 3 inches long. She didn't have it in the beginning but it has been growing for the past couple weeks. Is that going to fall out too? She has a shorter version of that in lighter amounts on her body, and behind her hears as well, although it's only about an 1/2 to 1 inch long in those areas.


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Oh my gosh. Totally love/want this Pap mix, what a cutie.

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/16804524









I've looked at so many breeders near me. I can't believe there's so many so close to me here in Maryland. I'm, like, really wanting a Papillon now. I have a slight feeling that if I get one, I'll be hooked.

Anyone heard of Susan Imes Shepard, kennel name Shep? She's in Centreville, MD where I'm at like 50% of my week (my dad lives in the same town, I went to HS in Centerville). She does not have a website.

Also, these dogs are really beautiful to me. http://www.waytogopaps.com/gallery.htm

Tino, http://www.waytogopaps.com/tino.htm, especially. What color is that called? I've gotta get educated properly on Paps now.


----------



## lucidity

That is a Classic Tri-Colour, like Cadence. 

AND.... I think you should get a Pap!! Jump on the bandwagon already!  I brought Cadence to 2 petstores today and at BOTH places I had people ask me if he's a Papillon and which breeder I got him from, lol.


----------



## Laurelin

They're very very addicting dogs. Haha, I can't talk at all, can I? I can't imagine life without one of these guys. 

WaytoGo's dogs are very very beautiful. Tino's dad is Nard's dad's littermate, btw.  I love tricolors of all varieties.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> Hey Michiyo, I have a question! I know someone who is interested in a small breed dog. They're trying to decide if a papillon or a longhaired chi are for them.... I have like... NO chi experience and I know your family has both a LH chi and a pap. Can you tell me a bit about them both and the differences between the two breeds?


Sorry, I haven't been on in a while and I just saw this. 

Our Pap and Chi are very very different.

Nia is more energetic, independent and quirky. She also listens very very well and learns very quickly. She seems to shed more than our Chi (but that could be because of the seasons in Vancouver while Pop is in London) She likes tasks like fetch a lot. She doesn't like to be held that much although she doesn't mind from family. She has better endurance as well. We've hiked for 4-5 hrs with her with no problem.

Our Chi Pop is very very clingy. He crawls onto your body and flops on it or when you pick him up he flops completely. His favorite thing in the world is for people to pet him and hold him. He doesn't listen or learn as well but he's very mischievous and loves getting into trouble. He isn't as energetic as Nia and doesn't last as long in terms of endurance. He can walk for about 1.5 hrs before he refuses to walk and will whimper and yelp and just flop over. (we had him vet checked twice already and he's perfectly fine). He doesn't seem to enjoy many tasks like fetch and his attention span isn't as great. He's also more stubborn than Nia.

Are there any specific questions your friend wants to know? I can't think of anything specific, so do ask them to ask me questions!


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks! I'll pass it on and see if she has any questions. I think the breeds tend to get lumped together a lot but all the chis I know seem very different to papillons.

Mine have been overall very snuggly little dogs but it is more on their own terms. They are too busy busy busy to cuddle for very long. Especially the girls are a bit more aloof.

Mia is snuggled on my shoulder like a parrot right now. The only problem is she has AWFUL gas. I keep shoving her down but she keeps crawling back up and farting in my face.


----------



## Miranda16

Laurelin said:


> Mia is snuggled on my shoulder like a parrot right now. The only problem is she has AWFUL gas. I keep shoving her down but she keeps crawling back up and farting in my face.


ROTFL BAHAHAHAHAhaha she sure is a character isnt she ....

also im sorry for your misfortune


----------



## Papilove

Laurelin said:


> Mia is snuggled on my shoulder like a parrot right now. The only problem is she has AWFUL gas. I keep shoving her down but she keeps crawling back up and farting in my face.


ROTFLMAO and from what we've been told and seen of Mia, it's most likely on purpose. LOL


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Laurelin said:


> They're very very addicting dogs. Haha, I can't talk at all, can I? I can't imagine life without one of these guys.
> 
> WaytoGo's dogs are very very beautiful. Tino's dad is Nard's dad's littermate, btw.  I love tricolors of all varieties.


The tri-colors are sooo freakin' pretty. Wow! I want one now, LOL. I might have to shoot an email to WaytoGo and see what their plans are, etc. I'm thinking I will hopefully be 100% ready by late this year/early next year. It'd be nice if I could go visit and see their dogs in person and get a feel for the breed, etc. 

How bad do the Paps shed? I'm definitely used to Jackson's non-shedding self but don't mind dealing with dog hair too much, as long as it's not like a Husky or a Lab.


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## lucidity

Hmm.. I'd say they're medium shedders. Definitely not as bad as the double coated breeds, but they do shed quite a bit. Cadence seems to shed more in Spring and Fall. During winter he barely sheds at all.... but when spring comes, his coat comes out in clumps


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## Laurelin

You'll get used to shedding lol. It's nowhere NEAR as bad as my shepherd, shelties, or lab were. 

A proper pap coat should shed pretty much the same all year. They don't blow coat like double coated breeds (this is where the undercoat will come out completely) because they have no undercoat to lose. Mia sheds worse when she's nervous/excited it seems. Like at the dog show I was completely covered in white hair. But my house just has a few white hairs here and there. It's no big deal. I do keep a lint roller around though.

Brush them more and wash them often to keep them from shedding too much.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Jacksons Mom said:


> How bad do the Paps shed? I'm definitely used to Jackson's non-shedding self but don't mind dealing with dog hair too much, as long as it's not like a Husky or a Lab.


Nia sheds quite a bit year round. For example right now she's shedding quite a bit, not in clumps but if i rub her coat a bit some stray hairs will definitely fall out. Her hair never really comes out in clumps though but you can definitely find white hairs stuck into the carpet, floor, beds, etc.

Our Cavalier (also single coated) sheds less than Nia and so does our long haired Chi. I think it could be the seasonal difference in London though opposed to Vancouver. Not too sure. It's no where as bad as a Golden or Husky though.


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## Nargle

We have a black rug that Basil likes to lay on, and it has stray white hairs all over it, lol! Occasionally I'll find a hair in my food or in my mouth when I first wake up, and it's certainly encouraged me to vacuum more often, but there aren't little fluffy balls of fur rolling around everywhere like what my mom's BC/Husky/GSD used to produce!

Brushing and bathing does help, I agree.


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## Jacksons Mom

Thanks for the shedding tips. It's definitely something I'd have to get used to!


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## Laurelin

On the flip side though much much less grooming than you're used to. 

Really shedding is not a big deal at all. Well worth it, in my opinion.


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## ladyshadowhollyjc

Ya know, I never noticed that they were big shedders until we got a black bedspread lol.


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## Jacksons Mom

Laurelin said:


> On the flip side though much much less grooming than you're used to.
> 
> Really shedding is not a big deal at all. Well worth it, in my opinion.


Definitely! I was thinking about, too. Jackson goes every 8-10 weeks to the groomers, since I keep him short. At $60 a pop, that gets expensive!


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## Nargle

For a pap you just need a bottle of shampoo and a nail clipper, lol! Basil's fur at least doesn't even get that tangled and I just brush it to keep it from looking messy (especially after baths), however his ear fringe (Or, the long fur that originates between his ear and cheek, whatever that's called, lol!) sometimes gets matted and needs to be brushed more frequently. 

I love that I can walk him through mud in the morning and he'll be clean and white that evening, lol!


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## Laurelin

Yeah they're definitely wash and wear. I barely do any grooming on mine and I get compliments all the time lol. 

I use shears, thinning shears, a pin brush, a fine tooth comb, and that's all for grooming. It's very easy. All you really need to trim are the feet once a month or so.


----------



## Jetta

Ok so I've finally got some pictures of Bunny to put up and a few of her pups though she's got a bit of a fuller coat now and more fringing as these were just before she conceived. Her pups are half Chihuahua as Bunny is small it is her first litter but we might have a pedigree litter in 18 months or so if we can find the right little fella for her.



























We didn't line them up like that that's just how they were cuddled hence we had to take a picture.








I know this isn't the correct position for bottle feeding but he was fussy so whichever way he wanted it had to be the right way.









Her milk did come in more after an oxytocin injection and a ridiculous diet of bacon and sausages and home roasted chicken with skin left on as well as all the high quality puppy food we were already giving her and canned mackerel too. Needless to say she had 'no' complaints about the vets orders lol.


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## Laurelin

Bunny is very cute!


----------



## Pai

I saw this poster today and I thought of you guys. *lol*


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## Papilove

very cute.I buy that.


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## Nargle

If anyone's interested, here's a Basil pic, lol!









His ear fringe is looking a lot better than it was! It could be thicker but it's a vast improvement from his "bald" look from last winter, lol!

ETA: Oh yeah! You know how I was experimenting around with coloring Basil's tail with chalk? Just a word of advice, don't use Prismacolor markers unless you're pretty sure you want your dog to stay that color, LOL! It's not easy to see in this pic but you may be able to see it in y sig: Basil's tail tip is pink! I colored his tail rainbow with chalk, but the purple didn't show up well enough, so I went ahead and colored in purple with the Prismacolor marker. It's been several weeks and all of the other colors have faded but his tail tip remains a pale pinkish color! It's nearly faded out, though, it was much worse before.


----------



## Papilove

Aw look at him, he's such a cutie. I love me some Basil!

and OMG LMAO you used permanent marker???????? LOL That's funny, he's got a "girly tail".


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## Nargle

Lol, in my defense, I've used Prismacolor markers on faux fur in costumes before so it just seemed logical at the time to use them on REAL fur.. (Even though the reason I chose Prismacolor markers for the faux fur is because it's waterproof and doesn't wash off... heheheheee)  **Bangs head**


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## Jacksons Mom

Basil is such a handsome boy. 

Btw, look at this dog *squeee* He's listed as a Chi, but his face doesn't scream Chi to me? Maybe a Pap/Chi mix? Either way, he's close to me and super adorable.

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/16977953


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## Papilove

Oh he is a cutie!!!


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## Crantastic

He's cute... I wonder where that color pattern came from. Don't tricolor chis usually have the eyebrow markings? He doesn't have the right markings for a tri papillon, either. He almost looks corgi-ish to me, but only in that first picture (it's probably the angle of the shot making his ears look rounder, as well as his coloring). He looks more papillon in the second pic, although he's a bit short. Maybe he's some kind of hound tri pap mix? Interesting dog.


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## Laurelin

Crantastic said:


> He's cute... I wonder where that color pattern came from. Don't tricolor chis usually have the eyebrow markings? He doesn't have the right markings for a tri papillon, either. He almost looks corgi-ish to me, but only in that first picture (it's probably the angle of the shot making his ears look rounder, as well as his coloring). He looks more papillon in the second pic, although he's a bit short. Maybe he's some kind of hound tri pap mix? Interesting dog.


That's the same color Mia is. hound tri. Only this boy is much lighter. Mia's brother is marked very similar.

I think he's probably a pet bred chi though. but he's VERY cute, omg.


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Laurelin said:


> That's the same color Mia is. hound tri. Only this boy is much lighter. Mia's brother is marked very similar.
> 
> I think he's probably a pet bred chi though. but he's VERY cute, omg.


Yeah, he's prob all Chi. But his face seems a bit longer, I don't know. But he's super adorable.

So, at the dog park today, there was this woman with a little dog who resembled a Pap but not quite full Papillon... she heard me talking about wanting a second dog and said she was looking for a good home for this one. It's her nieces dog and keeps her crated all day as she's in nursing school and becoming a nurse. She had went to let her out to potty, etc, and brought her to the park for some exercise. She just wants to find her a good home. She seemed VERY Pap-like in personality from all I've seen and read here on the forums. She was super sweet and super adorable. And I got the womans number. She's almost 6 months old.
















[dont mind me in this picture, please, gross.]


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## Laurelin

Oh wow yeah that one is most definitely part pap. Maybe papillon x terrier of some sort like TFT? Or maybe just byb pap. 

I hope she gets a good home.


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## Jacksons Mom

I would have taken her right then and there if I could have. With me living at home still, the step-dads allergies are definitely a problem, because most dogs he has a problem with and will sneeze all night long.  except he's fine with most 'hypoallergenic' breeds like yorkies, etc. But the lady even said I could do a test run and see how it goes, and she would take her back. So I've got her phone number and am... thinking.


----------



## Crantastic

Ha, Laurelin, I totally thought pap/toy fox terrier when I saw that dog, too. I keep seeing a cute TFT at the shows around here, so they're in my mind, I guess. There is something about that dog that makes me think there's some kind of terrier in there, although I can't really pinpoint it. Maybe it's the general ear shape and the long muzzle. The legs also look rather long.


----------



## Laurelin

Jacksons Mom said:


> I would have taken her right then and there if I could have. With me living at home still, the step-dads allergies are definitely a problem, because most dogs he has a problem with and will sneeze all night long.  except he's fine with most 'hypoallergenic' breeds like yorkies, etc. But the lady even said I could do a test run and see how it goes, and she would take her back. So I've got her phone number and am... thinking.


I would try it out... lol. He may be just fien with her if you keep her washed and well brushed. They're generally very clean dogs.


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Crantastic said:


> Ha, Laurelin, I totally thought pap/toy fox terrier when I saw that dog, too. I keep seeing a cute TFT at the shows around here, so they're in my mind, I guess. There is something about that dog that makes me think there's some kind of terrier in there, although I can't really pinpoint it. Maybe it's the general ear shape and the long muzzle.


You're right! I can also see Toy Fox Terrier!


----------



## EtherealJane

Jacksons Mom said:


> I would have taken her right then and there if I could have. With me living at home still, the step-dads allergies are definitely a problem, because most dogs he has a problem with and will sneeze all night long.  except he's fine with most 'hypoallergenic' breeds like yorkies, etc. But the lady even said I could do a test run and see how it goes, and she would take her back. So I've got her phone number and am... thinking.


OMG she is sooooo cute! A test run couldn't hurt...


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## Papilove

She's adorable! Just keep her really clean, tell you dad that papillons are hypoallergenic (cause it may be a case of suggestive thinking. The whole 'hypoallergenic'thing gets carried way too far and everyone who can even think about claiming it--no one with say, a Malamute fuzzbuster would even bother--does claim to be an allergy free breed). Asfar as I know poodles, and bichons (and they have poodle heritage) and some poodle mixes are truly hypo allergenic. But the power of suggestion makes the claims so some times.


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Papilove said:


> She's adorable! Just keep her really clean, tell you dad that papillons are hypoallergenic (cause it may be a case of suggestive thinking. The whole 'hypoallergenic'thing gets carried way too far and everyone who can even think about claiming it--no one with say, a Malamute fuzzbuster would even bother--does claim to be an allergy free breed). Asfar as I know poodles, and bichons (and they have poodle heritage) and some poodle mixes are truly hypo allergenic. But the power of suggestion makes the claims so some times.


Yeah, they used to have a cockapoo who he had no issues with. When I first got Jackson, he actually did have some issues, and he felt really bad and didnt want to tell me. Because one of the main reasons I began looking at Yorkies was the non shedding thing. So he def. felt bad but he can't help it, lol. He broke out after he touched puppy Jackson. He will occasionally still if it's been a while that he's seen him or been around him, it's like he has to become immune all over again. And when we visit my grandma's house with her Lab, he comes home and is just done for the night, his eyes swell up and all red, he can't breath as good, he's itchy and sneezing... yeah, unfortunately, it sucks.  His greatest passion in life is his race horses and he can't even touch them without breaking out w/ little bumps.


----------



## Laurelin

That sucks! I would hate to be allergic to dogs (especially papillons lol).


----------



## Laurelin

So here is my friend's stunner of a dog:










*thud*


----------



## Papilove

What a cutie. The phalene ears so drastically changes their expression from mischievous to angelic, lol. They look like CKS in expression, to me.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Pretty Phalene!

I've noticed breeders around here are all incorporating Phalenes into their lines now. Not sure why but they're catching on very quickly. Nia's breeder just imported one. Almost every breeder I know in my area has 1 right now.


----------



## Pai

I LOVE Phalenes. They have such a different 'vibe' to their look. 

Do they tend to have ear issues at all because of the drop ear?


----------



## Laurelin

Well they were pretty close to going extinct so I think breeders are finally realizing that we NEED to preserve the phalene breed type too. I would like one eventually but there's absolutely NONE here. There wasn't a single one showing at Reliant the other day and we had a huge entry.

I don't know if they have more ear infections or not. I've never really met any outside of shows.

I think they have a softer, more spaniely expression. I prefer the pap ears but the phalenes have really grown on me lately.


----------



## Papilove

I still prefer the papillon ears,too, but I admit that the soft phalene expression is very endearing. I actually like when Batty puts her ears all the way back, she does it when I'm walking and she's trying to walk ahead of me and look back at me at the same time, lol. It's really cute. so maybe I would like the phalene variety.


----------



## Laurelin

Papilove said:


> I still prefer the papillon ears,too, but I admit that the soft phalene expression is very endearing. I actually like when Batty puts her ears all the way back, she does it when I'm walking and she's trying to walk ahead of me and look back at me at the same time, lol. It's really cute. so maybe I would like the phalene variety.


My friend calls that the earless papillon.  I agree, it's adorable. I also like sleepy yoda ears. When their ears fall straight out to the sides of their heads.


----------



## Nargle

Laurelin said:


> My friend calls that the earless papillon.  I agree, it's adorable. I also like sleepy yoda ears. When their ears fall straight out to the sides of their heads.


When I'm walking Basil and he does that "earless papillon" thing, he totally looks like a rabbit from the back to me, lol! Especially if he's running. Also, I LOVE LOVE LOVE sleepy yoda ears, lol! It's got to be the cutest thing in the world


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## barnetto

Been back from vacation for a few weeks now. Pepin and Simone both gained weight at the kennel and after a moment of staring realized who I was and were ecstatic. Yay!

I took this photo last night, Pepin doing the pulled back "earless" look and I think Simone has a little Yoda going on:










I love the angelic Phalene look, but I'm sure its just a look and they're just as devilish as their Papillon compatriots.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow Pepin and Simone are growing big! They're both adorable! I really want 2 Paps together too <3


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## yappypappymom

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Wow Pepin and Simone are growing big! They're both adorable! I really want 2 Paps together too <3


 I will say that having 2 paps together at the same time INTSANTLY requires you to become "Sherlock Holmes" in like a nano-second!! Eventually, after studying them for a bit, you can narrow down the "who did it" scenario pretty easily...as long as you know each individuals "tell signs"(a poker term)...
&, I also agree - Pepin & Simone have grown LOTS from their baby pics show! Looks like they may now be close to their actual grown-up size (maybe a tad bit more if any, but, not much more growing I would think...now comes the HAIR!!)


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## Michiyo-Fir

Anymore pics of your 2 YappyPappyMom?


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## yappypappymom

Not really...I don't know if its the heat(tempertaure) or what, but, my kids are pratically nekked....both coats are blown ....is this even normal I sometimes wonder? Leif had glorious hair prior to the summer..Laik was just busting through puppy coat...Now, I have a pair of "nudie" paps..I am hoping that the fall will help their coats, but,..I have not really read about them blowing coat for the heat before - have you?!?! I feed them EVO, & Omega's...I am stumped!! Is this normal?


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## Michiyo-Fir

Nia doesn't have a ton of coat right now either. Actually she never really had an amazing coat so I don't worry about it too much anymore. They do sometimes shed more when it's hot, I know Nia does but I think naked Paps are really cute 

Usually it's genetics that determine how much coat they have...I know Nia's mom didn't have the best coat in the world so Nia probably won't either although her dad had hair exploding everywhere lol

Nia's coat now









Back when she had a little better coat


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## yappypappymom

Leifs dad had the hair thing "going on", & so did Leif, but, after this summer, I am sad to report that now his downward "directional" hairs mostly stand out ...Fall is coming, so, I hope to see changes in him soon. Just never really heard of a pap blowing coat due to season before...maybe its just me though. He HAD "IT"...but, the" it" left. His ears I have come to deal with that they are just way too small, but, - lucky for him that what he is lacking in ears, he is making up for in personality -the boy gives me many good laughs a day!! He is quite silly!!


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## barnetto

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Wow Pepin and Simone are growing big! They're both adorable! I really want 2 Paps together too <3


Its been interesting. I probably wouldn't do two puppies at the same time again, though it seems to be working out, but I also couldn't imagine being without either of them at this point. 

Their spay/neuter is coming up this Tuesday. They will be five months and 3 weeks old, so probably pretty close to done growing. I'm guessing the first day or so they'll be feeling too awful to want to play with each (and rip their stitches out), but then I think I shouldn't count on it since the first thing Pepin did when I brought him home after stepping on him was jump on his sister. 

This coming week should be fun... any tips on dealing with a freshly snipped puppy?


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## Michiyo-Fir

barnetto said:


> Its been interesting. I probably wouldn't do two puppies at the same time again, though it seems to be working out, but I also couldn't imagine being without either of them at this point.
> 
> Their spay/neuter is coming up this Tuesday. They will be five months and 3 weeks old, so probably pretty close to done growing. I'm guessing the first day or so they'll be feeling too awful to want to play with each (and rip their stitches out), but then I think I shouldn't count on it since the first thing Pepin did when I brought him home after stepping on him was jump on his sister.
> 
> This coming week should be fun... any tips on dealing with a freshly snipped puppy?


I think it might be a good idea to separate the pups after their surgery because I've heard of dogs wanting to play with each other way too soon or even worse, licking each other's stitches and trying to rip them out.

When I took Nia in for her spay there was another owner spaying 2 of her dogs at the same time and the vet recommended getting something like a baby gate or divider to separate the 2 dogs. 

I'm sure they'll do fine, dogs recover so much quicker than I would have though! Nia was completely back to normal and running as fast as she possibly can by day 9 which she wasn't supposed to do...


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## barnetto

So far so good with keeping them separate, but really all they wanted to do the first two days was sleep. I can tell that today they are going to be holy terrors. 

Simone tried to jump the barrier this morning. I heard all this scratching while I was getting ready for work and when I came in I see her head and little paws over the top of the wood plank dividing the kitchen (so she's up about three feet high). I ran around to the other side to get her down, her little legs were going a mile a minute, and then when she saw that I was on her side she let go before I could get to her. >_<

I examined her abdomen and didn't see that she'd caused any external damage, but man did she give me a scare.

She's so needy, always wanting to be around another "pack" member (be it us or her brother). I think I've seen her maybe twice go off and play on her own. The rest of the time if she's in the playpen she's making those saucer eyes and looking like the most miserable, pathetic little doggie ever. When she's with us she's looks blissful. Curls right up and falls asleep.


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## Papilove

The rest of the time if she's in the playpen she's making those saucer eyes and looking like the most miserable, pathetic little doggie ever. When she's with us she's looks blissful. Curls right up and falls asleep. 

Awww that just tugged at my heart. I could picture it so clearly. What a sweetheart. Your two sure are growing up. They are too cute. I love that "yoda" pic. Simone may have been trying to go 'earless' but her big floppies weren't letting it happen, but Pepin sure had the "force" going on with his wings. LOL


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## barnetto

Michiyo, how do you get such gorgeous shots of Nia (besides the fact that Nia is beautiful, I don't care what you say about her coat)?


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## Crantastic

Crystal, posing with Casper and Jade.










She's not too sure about being that close to Jade.


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## Papilove

How adorable... See Jade thinking, it's okay puppppyyyy I won't hurtz youz. Crystal thinking: Silly dog, I'm not afraidz, I'm thinking about what I can do and blame on the big dummy here. LOL


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## Michiyo-Fir

barnetto said:


> Michiyo, how do you get such gorgeous shots of Nia (besides the fact that Nia is beautiful, I don't care what you say about her coat)?


My advice is take a LOT of pictures LOL Get a big, high speed memory card and take tons and tons of pictures and pick a few out of those! Thanks for the lovely compliment!

Is Casper bigger than Crystal already? Wow time goes by fast!


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## Laurelin

Someone I know just made a papillon forum! It's got no posts yet but I'm hoping it takes off. It's crazy no one else has done it yet!


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## Papilove

What's the link? I think forevr papillons had a forum at one time but it didn't take off. I thought I remembered seeing a link to it on their website. I could be wrong. It can be tricky getting a forum off the ground, espeically an "uber-niche" (a general dog forum is a niche catagory, a single breed forum is an uber niche) but it can be done.


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## Michiyo-Fir

I want the link! I hope it takes off since there seems to be hoards of Pap owners on this an many other dog related forums.


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## Jacksons Mom

Laurelin said:


> Someone I know just made a papillon forum! It's got no posts yet but I'm hoping it takes off. It's crazy no one else has done it yet!


I've been wondering why there was no Pap forum! It blew my mind, esp. seeing how many are on general dog forums. 

I know I love our breed-specific forum for Yorkies. I learned sooo much from them with raising Jackson because you're talking to people who know their breed, their problems, their traits, etc, very well. Soo I would definitely join a Pap forum. Of course, still Papillon-less, but I am determined to own one someday.

Look at this little boy! *squeal*

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/17185858


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## barnetto

Looks like a cute little trouble maker. Has a lot of color to him.


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## Independent George

Crantastic said:


> She's not too sure about being that close to Jade.


I know this is the Pap thread, but that photo just makes me want to smoosh Jade so much.


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## barnetto

Question for adult papillon owners, how long do your dogs go at night before they need to be let out? What is the latest time you feed them and last time they get to go out for the night?


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## Michiyo-Fir

Nia can go about 14 hrs at night before she needs to be let out and she has been able to do that since 6 months old. Usually we let her out around 11-12 hrs though because that's just wHen we get up.

Nia gets fed around 8-9 pm an only once a day because that's all she'll eat. Even if I feed her earlier she will only eat around 9.

The last time she gets to go out is on her nightly walk/play which lasts about 2 hrs. It's between 6:30-9 pm, when we get back, she gets fed. If it's a weekend and everyone is sleeping late then she gets to go out one more time for a quick pee at 11-12pm that means we dont have to get up until 10-11.

What helps is that she sleeps in a crate in her room(which is actually my bathroom) gated off with a baby gate. She absolutely refuses to go to the bathroom in there so if she needs to go, she whines a lot and we know to take her outside.

Edit: she can only go about 8 hrs during the day without peeing though.


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## calpapmom11

Calvin is almost an adult - he will be one at the end of October. He eats twice a day and is last fed sometime between 6 and 7. He is let out for the last time usually around 10 and makes it 10 or 11 hours at night. He spends a lot of time going in and out during the day, but I think he just likes to mess around in the yard. Lots of ants, butterflies and squirrels to chase out there!!


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## lucidity

Now that I've quit my job, Cadence gets fed according to a very lax schedule 

In general, he goes for 11-12 hours at night. I bring him out for a "before bed" walk (about 15 mins) so he can do his business. This usually happens anytime between 11pm and 1am.

The next day he gets walked at 11am-12pm. He gets lunch after this walk, and so he gets his dinner at least 8-9 hours later. Depending on when he gets his lunch, he gets dinner between 8pm and 11pm.


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## Papilove

You guys and your 11 - 12 hour night time paps are making me so jealous. I really don't mind the nighttime out to pee things because I have to get up a couple times anyway, but I work from home and CAN sleep in, and would LIKE to sleep in to at least 9 am (go to bed between 10 and 11 every night) but Miss Thang will NOT sleep past 8. She's getting better it used to be 6. So we are improving the go back to bed when it's light out thing. I'm hoping a bit for the longer nights to give me some respite soon. She seems to have no problem going right back to bed with me when it's dark out.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Papilove said:


> You guys and your 11 - 12 hour night time paps are making me so jealous. I really don't mind the nighttime out to pee things because I have to get up a couple times anyway, but I work from home and CAN sleep in, and would LIKE to sleep in to at least 9 am (go to bed between 10 and 11 every night) but Miss Thang will NOT sleep past 8. She's getting better it used to be 6. So we are improving the go back to bed when it's light out thing. I'm hoping a bit for the longer nights to give me some respite soon. She seems to have no problem going right back to bed with me when it's dark out.


I know how you feel! Nia used to and still does whine starting from 5 am! It's not that she wants to pee though, it's just that she wants to come out and play. She's always been like that and we used to just take her out and let her go potty but recently we've decided to completely ignore her. My bathroom is outside of my room door so both my mom and I close our room doors and put on earplugs to prevent ourselves from hearing her whine. We let her out at 7 am when we get up.

I think for the past 2-3 weeks she stopped whining in the morning just for attention because she knows she's not going to get any.


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## Papilove

See there's a good point for making them sleep in their crates/rooms. Batty sleeps in bed, and most of the time it's fantastic, sweet little puppy nuzzling up to me all the time. There's always some part of her in contact with some part of me... but when she wants to get up, she turns into the most aggravating little whirlwind PIAs on the planet. It's like having a tornado in bed... with teeth.


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## lucidity

Amen to that! Cadence sleeps in the kitchen in his crate (mostly... some days I let him sleep with me). When he was little, he used to sleep in his crate beside my bed. I just used to ignore him when he woke up early (when I knew he didn't need to pee or anything).


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## calpapmom11

Calvin used to sleep in the crate next to our bed too, but he makes noise constantly while he is sleeping. He rolls over and kind of makes this little chattering sound about it and when he is ready to get up, he starts making this trilling sound. It is very adorable - if you are not trying to sleep next to him. Our sleep was being interrupted so much that we finally had to move him elsewhere in the house once he was done going out in the middle of the night. He adapted just fine to the new spot and we are all sleeping much better!


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## barnetto

Good to know that they should be able to get up to 10 hours. I don't really stay in bed any longer than 9 usually so things should work out.

They've been sleeping in the kitchen not in their crates since they don't fit anymore with those cones on their heads. They've also been finishing all their meals so I started adding more and more food to their bowls...and then two nights ago they each had a poo-explosion in the kitchen. They're six and a half months now, so it sounds like bladder/bowel control shouldn't be a problem. I probably just shouldn't feed them so much in the evening.


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## Nargle

For maybe a week after I adopted Basil, he would consistently get up around 5 or 6 am. However, I think he was just used to his foster mom's schedule, because now I have to drag him out of bed, and he usually ends up snoozing all day until the evening anyways, lol! It's nearly 1pm and he's passed out on the couch looking like he's got a hangover, lol! :biggrin1:

However, he DOES like to wake me up in the mornings because he gets long walks in the early mornings on days we go to school/work. On weekends, however, he's pretty easy to ignore for a minute or two and he passes out almost right away for a few more hours, lol. Then he goes back to being dog-who-stayed-up-too-late-last-night-partying. It's almost like every morning he's asking "Are we supposed to get up? No? Okay, good night!"


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## lucidity

calpapmom11 said:


> Calvin used to sleep in the crate next to our bed too, but he makes noise constantly while he is sleeping. He rolls over and kind of makes this little chattering sound about it and when he is ready to get up, he starts making this trilling sound. It is very adorable - if you are not trying to sleep next to him. Our sleep was being interrupted so much that we finally had to move him elsewhere in the house once he was done going out in the middle of the night. He adapted just fine to the new spot and we are all sleeping much better!


Ugh, Cadence makes a TON of noise at night too!! It drives me crazy. Whenever I let him sleep with me, he wakes up in the middle of the night to growl at random sounds/dogs he hears, paces around the bed to find a comfortable spot, etc. Drives me mad. That's why he sleeps in his crate most of the time... in the kitchen 



barnetto said:


> They've been sleeping in the kitchen not in their crates since they don't fit anymore with those cones on their heads. They've also been finishing all their meals so I started adding more and more food to their bowls...and then two nights ago they each had a poo-explosion in the kitchen. They're six and a half months now, so it sounds like bladder/bowel control shouldn't be a problem. I probably just shouldn't feed them so much in the evening.


Sounds like they've been overfed. Cadence gets diarrhea too when I feed him too much.. usually in the middle of the night, lol. It smells SO nasty!! Ugh.


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## Nargle

Here's a Basil bath pic! You guys haven't gotten sick of sopping wet Papillons yet, right? Lol








I tried to get a good picture of what he would look like without all of his fluff, but it didnt' work very well, lol. Should have taken a picture of his all sudsy. 

His ear fringes are starting to look a little nicer, btw! Better than the bald look he had going on a year ago, lol!








Sorry for the blurriness!


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## Papilove

Aw, I LOVE ME some soaking wet pappy pics.


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## barnetto

Pepin *loves* his baths. I sprinkle cheese all around the sink, set him in, and start washing. When I get done and put his sister in he sits by my feet and he stays next to me and begs to go back in.

His sister...as soon as I start getting her wet she stops eating and just looks at me. I guess I need something tastier for her.

Oh, they got their stitches off today, so tonight they are going to play!!!


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## Papilove

Awesome tip. I'll have to try the cheese.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Basil's fringe is looking really good compared to before!! Nia's is becoming thinner and thinner lol. It keeps getting stuck and dirty and I end up just ripping a lot of it out when I brush. Oh well, she's not a show dog anyways. Especially dog saliva, really makes everything stuck! I even had to cut out some knots and stuck parts with scissors.


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## Laurelin

I want her dogs: http://www.agilitypaps.com/

Maybe one day Mia and I will be that accomplished lol.


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## Papilove

I know, right? I LOVE that site. While I was looking for a pap, and waiting for my girl, I used to watch the videos on her site and dream... now I just sit and watch them and think... yeah right, not gonna happen. LOL


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## Laurelin

I feel bad because Blast is from Mia's breeder and a few months younger and he's already SO much further in training than Mia is.


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## Papilove

That's no reason to feel 'bad'. You give Mia a great home, lots of enrichment through trips to parks, streams, ponds, lots of play time. Even if you never did any agility with her, her breeder is probably thrilled she has such a great home. If she's not, she should be. At the same time: you ARE working with her. Everyone does things in their own time. You are also a student and have a busy life while providing a lot of great activities for your dogs.


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## sachi

All these pics are so cute


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## Michiyo-Fir

i've seen some of the agility Paps stuff on youtube and they're amazing! 

Hmm I wonder if Blast is a Jojo pup. I remember talking with Braylors and being offered a male that looks a lot like Blast as an agility/show pup.

I'm really starting to like Braylor's Paps more and more not only for their looks but for their brains! Those are some smart Paps they're breeding!


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## Laurelin

I LOVE the Braylors dogs. Mia has about 5-10 times the drive my others do. And her intelligence is just off the charts. (She's pretty too)

The only nit pick with Mia is she's not as stranger friendly as my others but that might just be her and not the breeder's dogs in general.

I can't remember who Blast is out of, but I think he's Mia's cousin of some sort. I may ask next time I email Brandi. I need to email her anyways.


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## Michiyo-Fir

I do remember on their site a lot of the puppies are labeled reserved so maybe their lines are just not as stranger friendly. Then again quite a few breeders get more reserved Paps here and there so I guess it's a pretty common trait?

Nia's pretty friendly and wiggly with everyone. Actually the only single problem I have with Nia is her dog reactivity which does seem to be getting better. Otherwise she's a great little dog, smart, looks alright and stable. Sounds, sights, new things don't frighten her at all. Sadly she's not really part of an established line so it's hard to replicate and get a dog from a similar line. I quite like her personality in general other than being more independent than any Pap I've ever heard or met.

I've heard with some of the extremely fancy dogs from Europe they're not as bright and wouldn't do well in any kind of sports in general. They're just bred for looks? I wonder if that's true?

I've been having a bit of a communication problem with Brandi though. I shot her an email about wanting a show/agility dog and got a reply about 3 months later, when I replied again, I never got a reply back. I guess she probably gets way too many emails. It's really hard to get in contact with her! I think it might be a lot better to phone her but it's international for me! I will probably try Braylor's for my next Pap if I want to go into dog sports. I love the achievements of their dogs, they are truly versatile.


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## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I do remember on their site a lot of the puppies are labeled reserved so maybe their lines are just not as stranger friendly. Then again quite a few breeders get more reserved Paps here and there so I guess it's a pretty common trait?
> 
> Nia's pretty friendly and wiggly with everyone. Actually the only single problem I have with Nia is her dog reactivity which does seem to be getting better. Otherwise she's a great little dog, smart, looks alright and stable. Sounds, sights, new things don't frighten her at all. Sadly she's not really part of an established line so it's hard to replicate and get a dog from a similar line. I quite like her personality in general other than being more independent than any Pap I've ever heard or met.
> 
> I've heard with some of the extremely fancy dogs from Europe they're not as bright and wouldn't do well in any kind of sports in general. They're just bred for looks? I wonder if that's true?
> 
> I've been having a bit of a communication problem with Brandi though. I shot her an email about wanting a show/agility dog and got a reply about 3 months later, when I replied again, I never got a reply back. I guess she probably gets way too many emails. It's really hard to get in contact with her! I think it might be a lot better to phone her but it's international for me! I will probably try Braylor's for my next Pap if I want to go into dog sports. I love the achievements of their dogs, they are truly versatile.


Hmm that's strange. Brandi's always shot back emails pretty fast for me. I think I waited over a week once but that is the only time I can remember having to wait. I know when I inquired about Mia the first time I heard back within a day. I did email the Fords at Forevr papillons and heard back from them months later. Maybe you should mention that you know me and Mia. 

I have heard not so great things about the Japanese and some of the Swedish/Belgian type dogs. Of course these were all from Americans but I have heard time and time again that while we may not have the type those dogs do, we have superior structure and drive. I personally prefer the american style dogs anyways so it's a win-win for me. 

A big reason I went for Brandi's dogs was they're american lines and they're also extremely versatile. She's got dogs doing pretty much everything. So far Mia has not disappointed.

My two are total opposites... Summer is all over strangers to the point I'm constantly having to pry her off people. Mia wants nothing to do with them. Both have their perks and challenges.


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## lucidity

Laurelin, may I ask which breeder did you get Summer from?

I've been looking at the agility pics/vids and wowww they're AMAZING! I think I'm going to start doing agility with Cadence once I get home... but is he a little old to start? He's never seen any agility equipment, much less been on them.. I think they have a tunnel at his daycare but that's about it.

Also, is it 100% important for a dog to be clicker trained before they can start agility?

I am seriously looking for a 2nd Papillon now... but it's so hard to find Australian breeders because 1) the country is huge and 2) their websites don't list much info. Do any of you guys know any breeders in the Melbourne area you could recommend?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

lucidity said:


> I've been looking at the agility pics/vids and wowww they're AMAZING! I think I'm going to start doing agility with Cadence once I get home... but is he a little old to start? He's never seen any agility equipment, much less been on them.. I think they have a tunnel at his daycare but that's about it.


You can start agility at any age! A lot of dogs don't start until they're a couple years of if they're adopted or changed owners or anything like that. 

I forget which year but one of the top Papillons for the AKC that year was a rescued Pap. Apparently she came from an abusive situation and a byb but really started to shine in the agility ring. I believe she already has the MACH3 title and she didn't start agility until 2? I can't remember the story too well and for some reasons I can't find it right now but you don't have to start right off the bat.


----------



## lucidity

Wow really? That's interesting! Are you going to start Nia in agility?

I can't wait to get started. I think Cadence would do well... he always has so much ENERGY and he's really fast  I think it's a Papillon thing, haha. He outruns all the dogs in this neighbourhood and they all give up/burn out way before he's done running. I think he gets bored chasing them around, lol.

He can be a little timid at times though... I think he would be scared of the teeter-totter, haha. Do you think it's worth it to invest in agility equipment?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I really don't know if I will do agility with Nia. There are a couple of reasons.

1. I can't find an agility club near here that is willing to take a dog reactive dog.

2. I don't have enough time at all. I'm currently doing a double major and have a part time job which means my days are completely packed full of activities. I also have no space to put any equipment as I have no yard so I don't know how we can practice. I don't drive either(yet) so it's not feasible for me to go to an agility center a few days a week. Even if I get my license, which should be in October, I have no car.

3. I hate competition. I highly doubt I will compete with Nia in agility even if we try it for fun. I absolutely hate competition. I somehow also have a problem with which obstacles I'm supposed to go through in which order. I ride horses and I do show jumping but 9/10 times I can't get the course right and go through the right jumps in the right order. I have no idea why at all. Spatially challenged maybe. LOL

I don't think Nia would be scared of any obstacles though. I'm fairly confident if I did try agility with her, she would like all the obstacles because she already normally jumps on/off, over things and walks on raised curbs and slides of slides. Her sit stay and down stay has been improving tremendously recently so her basic obedience is pretty much ready for things like agility or flyball.


----------



## Laurelin

lucidity said:


> Laurelin, may I ask which breeder did you get Summer from?
> 
> I've been looking at the agility pics/vids and wowww they're AMAZING! I think I'm going to start doing agility with Cadence once I get home... but is he a little old to start? He's never seen any agility equipment, much less been on them.. I think they have a tunnel at his daycare but that's about it.
> 
> Also, is it 100% important for a dog to be clicker trained before they can start agility?
> 
> I am seriously looking for a 2nd Papillon now... but it's so hard to find Australian breeders because 1) the country is huge and 2) their websites don't list much info. Do any of you guys know any breeders in the Melbourne area you could recommend?


Summer is from a breeder that unfortunately doesn't breed anymore.  She was a small time breeder and never had a website. 

Agility is sooo much fun. I would definitely recommend it and just because you start it doesn't mean you have to compete. Summer is 6 years old and just taking classes. She really didn't start real agility till she was 5 years old. Sure we probably won't ever MACH but it's fun and she LOVES it.

How old is Cadence? Mia started at 15 months. Personally I like having that first year to just build a relationship. Mia was so scatter brained and had such a short attention span as a puppy that I don't think we would have gotten far anyways. I think it was better letting her mature a bit before really getting to work.

Michiyo, how reactive is Nia? My dogs are sort of reactive. I don't even bring it up until class and we've never had a problem. I think it is a great thing to get these little guys into. They seem to be born for it. It's really helped both my dogs get over some of their fears (Mia is a work in progress) and really helped us develope a more understanding relationship. I just love it.


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## calpapmom11

This is a very interesting thread for me. I really want to get Calvin into agility also. We are taking an obedience class through a club that does a lot of agility classes. Unfortunately their next beginning agility class isn't until January, but they do set up mini obstacle courses for the dogs to go through at the end of the class we are in now just for extra handling practice and for fun. Calvin LOVES it! The main reason I'm taking the obedience class is to expose him to other dogs and to keep him focused on me during the chaos of a busy class. He does well around other dogs but is a little unsure about new people that approach him - another reason for class. He's never aggressive, just not super cuddly with new people. I'm thinking of having my husband build some adjustable agility jumps and maybe a ramp that he could use at home. I got some eye rolls when I suggested that as a project for him!! LOL!!


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## lucidity

Laurelin said:


> How old is Cadence? Mia started at 15 months. Personally I like having that first year to just build a relationship. Mia was so scatter brained and had such a short attention span as a puppy that I don't think we would have gotten far anyways. I think it was better letting her mature a bit before really getting to work.


Cadence is 14 months old now.. I think I will definitely get him started in a month or two! Do you think you're going to compete with Mia? What kind of dogs usually do well in agility? Drivey dogs? Energetic ones? Cadence gets kinda timid around things that are big and strange (that he's never seen before). And he's such a baby sometimes.. *rolleyes*

Off topic but, we just got back from the vet.. I had to get him all his shots before our trip home.. Poor puppy  He had 3 shots (DHPP-C, Lepto & Rabies), bordatella (the nose drip thing), and blood test all in one day. Yeowch. I got the vet to check his heart and patellas. She said his heart is VERY VERY good!!  Apparently she says that small dogs usually have very fast heartbeats but his was very slow which means that he's got an "athlete's heart", lol. And his patellas are really good too. No heart murmurs. I specifically asked her to check for that... What other things should I ask? I know that Paps have some minor diseases but I couldn't think of any others besides heart and patellas. We'll be going back in a couple of weeks for a final check up before the dreaded 22+ hour flight.


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## Elizabeth Bennette

I LOVE my pappy, her and I are so close!!! She is also my service dog, and though we are still working on training she is AMAZINGLY well behaved for a 1 year old. REALLY smart and REALLY stubborn.

Also A little fun fact. George Lucas owend two papillions when he made to movie Greamlins, and that is what he used for the models for gremlins. Probably where he got the rule of "don't get them wet"


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## Laurelin

lucidity said:


> Cadence is 14 months old now.. I think I will definitely get him started in a month or two! Do you think you're going to compete with Mia? What kind of dogs usually do well in agility? Drivey dogs? Energetic ones? Cadence gets kinda timid around things that are big and strange (that he's never seen before). And he's such a baby sometimes.. *rolleyes*
> 
> Off topic but, we just got back from the vet.. I had to get him all his shots before our trip home.. Poor puppy  He had 3 shots (DHPP-C, Lepto & Rabies), bordatella (the nose drip thing), and blood test all in one day. Yeowch. I got the vet to check his heart and patellas. She said his heart is VERY VERY good!!  Apparently she says that small dogs usually have very fast heartbeats but his was very slow which means that he's got an "athlete's heart", lol. And his patellas are really good too. No heart murmurs. I specifically asked her to check for that... What other things should I ask? I know that Paps have some minor diseases but I couldn't think of any others besides heart and patellas. We'll be going back in a couple of weeks for a final check up before the dreaded 22+ hour flight.


Poor guy! Good luck on the flight home! That's a long flight for a little doggy.

I am planning on competing with Mia and Summer too hopefully. I'm not planning on going for a MACH or anything, but just seeing what we can do.  I know Summer is old to start but a lot of people have been very encouraging and told me that many people can title older dogs. I do know Summer is a reliable little runner and she adores it. 

Any dog can run agility imo. What is 'best' really depends on what you want to run. Of course fast, drivey dogs tend to be the top competitors but if you're not going for nationals, you'll likely be fine with a moderately fast dog. It's somewhat of a trade-off too. Those high drive dogs tend to need a lot more training to get reliable. You see them go flying off track and taking the wrong obstacle a lot.

I'm running one of each right now. Summer is reliable and moderately fast. She's a great dog to begin with. She's not a walker but she's also not too fast for me to keep up. Mia's the type to gogogo and think fast. It's an adjustment for sure...

As far as fear goes, agility has helped my dogs a LOT. It takes time but I am gradually seeing their fears vanish through structured classes. Be patient (my problem). 

It's not SO competitive in the small dog classes either. The larger breed classes are going to be dominated by border collies, the middle classes are typically dominated by shelties. The smallest height is typically JRTs and papillons though there's quite a few fast little breeds out there. Papillons are pretty much the best choice out of the toy dogs because they tend to be high drive, highly biddable. If I recall correctly 3 of the first 16 MACHs of ALL BREEDS in the AKC were papillons.  The first dog to earn top honors in agility, obedience, and conformation was also a papillon.


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## Crantastic

My vet said Crystal had an athlete's heart, too. I may be starting Crystal in rally soonish, if I can get a regular drive to the training place. I was doing show handling classes with this lady just for fun and to support a friend (she's just started showing her cocker spaniel and was a little shy about going to classes alone), and while there I asked the trainer if she thought Crystal could be good at rally. The trainer took the leash and walked Crystal around the ring, doing most of the novice exercises. She said Crystal already knows a lot of it and we could be competition-ready in a couple of months! I think it would be fun.


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## lucidity

Laur: Wow that's a lot of info.. do you know where I can find a list of the top AKC agility dogs? Are you planning to go on to MACH with Mia? Is that your goal for her? I don't know if Cadence is drivey. I don't think he is. He gives up pretty easily and is very scatterbrained. He can barely pay attention to anything for longer than 5 minutes at a time.. Sigh. He's very very fast, but he really "tunes out" when he's engrossed in something else... like chasing his buddies around. -__-

Cran: Oooh, please post photos when you start Crystal! Or videos  I always like seeing photos and watching vids of dogs being athletic. It's just so cute with all that fluff and teeny bodies running around!


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## Laurelin

lucidity said:


> Laur: Wow that's a lot of info.. do you know where I can find a list of the top AKC agility dogs? Are you planning to go on to MACH with Mia? Is that your goal for her? I don't know if Cadence is drivey. I don't think he is. He gives up pretty easily and is very scatterbrained. He can barely pay attention to anything for longer than 5 minutes at a time.. Sigh. He's very very fast, but he really "tunes out" when he's engrossed in something else... like chasing his buddies around. -__-


I'm not sure about a list of the top AKC agility dogs. The PCA had the top papillon agility dogs on it but I'm not sure if it's been updated. I can't find it anymore. I don't really have any plans with Mia and Summer as far as titles go. We're taking it step by step and seeing how it goes first.  I'd love a MACH on her but realistically probably won't happen. If she were owned by her brother's handler then maybe. But I am a beginner and I probably won't be able to travel and show that often.

I wouldn't worry too much about Cadence and drive. Just enroll him and see what happens. You don't need a really drivey dog to run agility though drive helps. You can always do exercises that build drive. Also, drive and focus are two different things. Just because he's not focused doesn't mean he has no drive. Mia had ZERO focus when I got her and she is very very drivey. It's all about developing the drive and the focus and the skills. No dog going into a beginner's agility class is going to have all the pieces needed to do well. If they have tons of drive, you usually have to build focus, or if they have no drive, you have to build drive, etc. I would just go for it and see what he can do. You may be surprised.


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## calpapmom11

I am very new to all this and don't really understand the difference between being a drivey or a focused dog. Could someone please explain? I don't see myself competing much in agility but would like to do it to have something fun to do with Calvin - especially since it is indoors and our winters are miserable. But I have no idea if he is going to be cut out for it. Maybe if I could lure him with a squirrel....


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## Laurelin

I wish agility here was indoors. 

Drive... you'll get various definitions of drive. To me, drive is the desire to work, the NEED to do something. Focus is if the dog can keep it's attention on something. Mia is like, "Yay yay ya let's goooooo oooh what's that over there!?' and her brain turns off.


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## Crantastic

And Crystal is super focused (the trainer I was talking about was amazed that Crystal lay there and _stared_ at her face for 15 straight minutes as she talked one day) but doesn't care about speeding through agility courses or the like. Rally is a little slower (and on-leash for quite a while), so I think she'll enjoy it more.


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## Laurelin

Blah Mia had a HUGE fall today (see the sports section). I'm going to have a lot of work to get her back over this setback. Luckily she wasn't hurt at all, but she scared herself pretty bad.


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## calpapmom11

Poor Mia! I'd be scared as a mom watching it happen!! I'm not sure whether our competitions are inside but there are indoor training courses. I don't know whether Calvin has good focus or drive. He definitely needs to be doing _something_ at all times, but not always what I need him to do. His focus can be pretty good if he is interested in what we are doing. If something better comes along, he's like Mia - see ya!! It will be fun to see how he does and will give us something different to do in the winter! I would say that Mia has both excellent focus and drive when it comes to small tennis balls, though!!


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## Papilove

oh poor mia


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## sachi

Hi everyone,
I just posted a thread in the dog food section - any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-food-forum/84433-papillons-small-breed-dogs.html#post889240

PS - Poor Mia - glad she didnt get hurt


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## Papilove

Batty's getting bigger/older and really settling in to her niche in the family. I feel less overwhelmed by puppy training than I did, although there are still days when she seems to forget everything, they're much fewer and further between. She's 5.5 mths old now, 6 pounds (could probably stand to lose a half pound or so, but she's not fat, I can easily feel ribs without pressure, and the end of her rib cage, etc... but she's thick around the middle, lol... or should i say "solid". She's very active and happy though, and we love her to no ends. These pics are from today when we went out to the boat, and the trailer yard to do a little work getting ready to pull the boat out of the water next weekend. I haven't posted pics lately because it's really hard to get a good picture of her. These aren't great either, but they're better than most. The solid black markings create of difficulty in showing true lines. IN these she looks better than any pics I've taken so far. I think one of the greatest things about tris or sables and reds is the contrast and easy definition you don't get with the blacks.

Hubby working on trailer... Batty was in there with her nose under him, but she must have ducked back the moment I snapped... dang.









But mooooooooooommmmmm, I don't wanna stand still!









You canz lock me in zee truck and I will still cause mischiefs, I promize









Daddy and I are both tuckered. You didn't do nuthing so you not tiredz









Did someone say food?









Daddy, getz up, she said fuooood.


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## Shaina

Batty is so darn cute. Love how much color she has on her body.

And to placate the crowd (non-Papillon owner posting on the Papillon thread! Run!), here are some agility papillon pics I got while playing with my camera indoors...and yeah I am really bad at indoors, motion, with poor/back lighting. Working on that


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## Michiyo-Fir

Batty! Yay! We don't get enough Pappy pic updates these days!

Shaina those agility Paps are so cute! and that looks like a giant A-frame for the little pap!


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## Laurelin

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Batty! Yay! We don't get enough Pappy pic updates these days!
> 
> Shaina those agility Paps are so cute! and that looks like a giant A-frame for the little pap!


All dogs run the same height A-frame, teeter, and dog walk regardless of size.  A-frame is both of my dogs' favorite obstacle though! 

Batty is just precious! I love how much color she has on her body.


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## calpapmom11

Batty is such a cutey!! Love the pictures!


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## sachi

My girl lovin her flossie...









My boy - I think he knows what theyre made of lol


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## Michiyo-Fir

They're beautiful! Just gorgeous! Mine won't chew the ring type bully sticks lol. She only likes the extra thin extra small extra smelly kind


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## Papilove

[email protected] what they're made of. Maybe she does too! LOL They are adorable. Batty will chew on anything bone like. Most of the time, however, she chews them half way and then buries them--usually under my pillow where I wake up in the middle of the night with it sticking me in the face.


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## sachi

Can anyone here tell me how to resize the pictures for the message board? Flickr or Photobucket. My pics look HUGE. Ty


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## Michiyo-Fir

sachi said:


> Can anyone here tell me how to resize the pictures for the message board? Flickr or Photobucket. My pics look HUGE. Ty


I think it auto resized for the board. But for photobucket click on the photo you want to resize, then at the top of the picture there's a resize option. Usually I use the large preset.


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## sachi

Michiyo-Fir said:


> They're beautiful! Just gorgeous! Mine won't chew the ring type bully sticks lol. She only likes the extra thin extra small extra smelly kind


I bought her that one because I thought it would be easier to take away. THEY STINK!!! lol



Papilove said:


> [email protected] what they're made of. Maybe she does too! LOL They are adorable. Batty will chew on anything bone like. Most of the time, however, she chews them half way and then buries them--usually under my pillow where I wake up in the middle of the night with it sticking me in the face.


My dogs were trained not to go on furniture. Only once in a great while I'll let them on. but when other people watch them they always go on the furniture. If my dogs were to ever put one of "those" things on my bed... or under my pillow... eeeeewwwwwwwweeeeeeee LOL



Michiyo-Fir said:


> I think it auto resized for the board. But for photobucket click on the photo you want to resize, then at the top of the picture there's a resize option. Usually I use the large preset.


Thanks - they just looked really big on my screen. I hope I did it correctly, its my first post with pics

Just wanted to know how many mad responses I would get if I posted pics of my paps when I had them shaved... I kept the ears and tails long... (Will I get kicked out of the papillon group/thread?...) lmk if you want me to post the pics

in my defense - this is from when we first adopted them and I found out my son was allergic to them


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## Michiyo-Fir

I want to see shaved Paps! I probably personally wouldn't shave a Pap unless there's some kind of medical condition that dictates that I need to shave them. Do you think you'll ever shave them again?


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## sachi

Don't be mad... 

When I first adopted them we found out my younger son was allergic to them... So it was them or him... They have been shaved twice and I use Allerpet shampoo. Now I think he's allergic to the saliva and not dander. I would probably do it again (soon) Its easier with the upkeep and not as much shedding, etc. I also think my girl is mixed (even though she's registered/has papers) She has a short nose, legs... and I personally think her ears are rounder. Not like my boy, he's all "pretty" and he has the "nice" papillon walk/prance. Only her face has the colloring/not her body... She has very soft fur, like a puppy and its very fluffy - he was the more coarse regular fur But I still LOVE them the same =)










Not the best pic - I took it with my phone


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## Laurelin

No one's going to be mad.  I could never ever do that to my papillons though.

I don't think your girl looks mixed at all. There's a lot of variety in looks in the breed. And actually round ears is preferred as is softer fur (as opposed to coarser fur). She is stockier than he is but they both look very papillon to me.


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## lucidity

Oh noes..... I feel so sad for their fringe!!!  I have been trying for AGES to get Cadence's fringe to grow and now it looks like it's finally starting to come in! I could never ever shave him. His fur is so soft and smooth  And... he doesn't really have very long or thick fur. It's sad  I want a Pap with tonnes and tonnes of fur! Like Summer or Nia  Okay, or like one of those Forussi dogs. Lol.

If you do decide to shave them again (although can I put in a small note saying "please reconsider"??), maybe leave their pretty fringing intact?

ETA: I also think that your girl is 100% pap. She looks 100% pap to me anyway... More so than alot of other so called Paps I see around..


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## Laurelin

Hehe, it's funny you said 'Summer' in that. She has the least amount of hair of all ours. She didn't grow hair until she was spayed.


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## lucidity

Lol I hope I'm not offending everyone else in this thread, but Summer is my favourite dog on this forum  Mia cracks me up and everything, but Summer is just such a sweet dog. And she's so pretty! Her ears are awesome. I love her fur too! It's not too thick like puffy, and she has awesome fringe for a pretty much all red Pap.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Aww they look really cute! Like the bald puppy stage again which is actually my favorite stage. I don't think your girl is mixed at all! She looks completely Pap to me too! She has a somewhat similar head shape to Nia I think, maybe with a little shorter muzzle but definitely all Pap!










Thanks for the compliment lucidity, but Nia doesn't have a lot of coat either. I was hoping she would grow more but she won't ever be Beau or Nard hairy. Laur has some of the hairiest Paps I've ever seen! 

I'm glad Cadence is growing some fringe! His ears are looking a little fuzzy recently from the pics you posted  What a cutie!


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## sachi

Laurelin said:


> And actually round ears is preferred as is softer fur (as opposed to coarser fur). She is stockier than he is but they both look very papillon to me.


Thanks you and everyone for the comments. I never knew that round ears and softer fur were preferred. I need to take more pics of them. She is VERY FLUFFY. Her fur never stays down/flat even when her coat is longer. Everyone thinks she's fat and I have to tell them she's just fluffy =)


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## Helen<3

Hi I'm new and I'm thinking of getting a papillon. They are so cute! I've done my research and found out that they are also really smart and loyal. Can you please tell me why do some paps have longer hair (on their ears, especially) and others don't. Is it a matter of breed or age or both?


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## Laurelin

lucidity said:


> Lol I hope I'm not offending everyone else in this thread, but Summer is my favourite dog on this forum  Mia cracks me up and everything, but Summer is just such a sweet dog. And she's so pretty! Her ears are awesome. I love her fur too! It's not too thick like puffy, and she has awesome fringe for a pretty much all red Pap.


Aww thanks! I love Summer too, she's just the best dog in the world. She's my heart girl. And her coat is my favorite of them all too, it's super easy to keep up because it's quite a bit shorter than the others. Mia is the softest though, she feels like petting a bunny. 

Sachi, I definitely want to see more pictures of your two! They're both gorgeous.



> Hi I'm new and I'm thinking of getting a papillon. They are so cute! I've done my research and found out that they are also really smart and loyal. Can you please tell me why do some paps have longer hair (on their ears, especially) and others don't. Is it a matter of breed or age or both?


There's a couple things about fringing... First is genetics and bloodlines. Some lines of papillons just have more fringe than others. Also, color plays a role with the lighter colors typically having less fringe than the darker ones. Black hairs seem to be coarser in the breed and don't break off. And age is of course a factor too. It takes 2-4 years to grow (or re-grow) fringe. Also, upkeep is another thing. A lot of the show dogs will have their fringing washed and conditioned very frequently, or even have their ears kept in snoods. And finally the amount of time you touch their ears matters too because the more you play with their fringe, the more oils from your skin get on them and the more they tend to break off. 

All that said I have two siblings who are both over 4 years and similar in color and one has a ton of fringe and the other has very little. It's sometimes just luck of the draw.



















If you have any other papillon questions, here is definitely the place to ask!


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## Michiyo-Fir

Has Nia's fringe grown? 

Here she is at a bit over 1 yr old.









And now....2 months until she hits 2!









The only growing I see is that it's growing thinner! LOL 









I just liked this..


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## lucidity

Hahaha, it looks like her fringe is getting thinner to me!! Oh noes  Did the puppies chew on it? Lol.

I'll post photos of Cadence fringe growth later.. (or lack thereof -__-)


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## Laurelin

Check out Mia's fringe, lol!










Not a good hair day.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Mia looks quite unhappy about the way her hair is behaving too


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## Papilove

Bed Head! (too short)


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## lucidity

Cadence's non existent fringe:

10 weeks:








No fuzz at ALL!! It's sad  Most paps already have fuzzy ears as babies.

3 months:









8 months:









Today (he turns 15 months tomorrow):

















Is his fringe growing at all? Do you guys think the black furs on his ears (near his face) will eventually grow over his entire ear?

And another photo, just for fun (and because I'm evil):


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## Papilove

Awww but I just LOOOOVE Cadence's ears! That last picture is too cute too. All wrapped up in his towel, and he really doesn't seem to mind a bit, he looks like he's saying "I'm ready Mr. DeMille, just give me a minute to dry off and protect my voice... woof."


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## lucidity

Thanks!! And no he doesn't really mind when I do crazy things to him.. he just looks really sad hahaha.

And.. Sunset Boulevard!!!  I love that you quoted it.


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## Papilove

lucidity said:


> Thanks!! And no he doesn't really mind when I do crazy things to him.. he just looks really sad hahaha.
> 
> And.. Sunset Boulevard!!!  I love that you quoted it.



haha, well it was certainly a loose quote with a lot of liberty, but he just had that diva look about him there. heehee


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## Michiyo-Fir

I think I can see the black hairs growing over his entire ear. 

And he did have ear fuzz as a baby! Just at the tips of his ears  So adorable! I miss my big eared baby! Nia's ears aren't big anymore compared to her body size


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## lucidity

Haha, I knowww!! I miss the puppy days. Their head/ears look so disproportional hahah.

Well, I HOPE his fringe grows! It seems that every time it grows, the dogs he plays with chew everything up again. -_-


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## Laurelin

Bump! I want my papillon fix! 

By the way there were 6 more papillons at Wienerfest this year. I think they're really starting to take off popularity wise.


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## Michiyo-Fir

I have no idea why there is like no light in my house whatsoever. So hard to get a decent picture..











Nia's eye. I wish she had lighter eyes! Or blue eyes! (is that even possible in Paps?)











focus


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## lucidity

LOL. I think light eyes are a fault... from what I remember... so maybe they're not common or don't even exist in Paps.

Cadence has very, very light brown eyes. I will try to take a picture of it one day. I'm jealous of his eyes!! But then again I'm jealous of Huskies and their blue eyes too. Hahaha.

Btw, does anyone here know of a good Pap breeder in Australia? Preferably in Victoria (state) and in the Melbourne area. I am seriously debating getting another Pap at the end of this year.


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## Michiyo-Fir

These guys are in Melbourne and breed some of the top winning dogs in the Australian show ring. They breed some very nice dogs
http://www.basilikabasileuspapillons.com/

Jorden is my favorite dog from them.


If not then try Papco. They are doing very well in the show ring too but I think they're further away from Melbourne. 
Edit: But they breed Phalenes too if you want one, I'd definitely look at these guys.

http://www.dogs.net.au/papco/default.asp


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## lucidity

Thanks for the links! I've seen Basilika before, and yes I love their dogs!

How do you normally go about contacting a breeder? I always send e-mails but it seems they are too busy to reply. My e-mails are usually pretty detailed as well. Do you tell them anything about yourself and what you're looking for? Or do you just ask questions?

I'm thinking I'd rather get a retired show or breeding dog instead of a puppy this time around... I am really not looking forward to potty training 101 again (lol) and I don't think flying a puppy 9+ hours in cargo is a good idea.

Lauren, Summer was 4 when you got her right? What was the transition like? Did she miss home at all? Did you get to change her name?


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## calpapmom11

Calvin has rather light eyes too. Here are some pics of him at about 11 months. He turns one next weekend - I can't even believe it! The one picture of him is with Blaze, our field cocker. He likes to sit on the couch like a person. Talk about Mr. Mellow...


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## Michiyo-Fir

Calvin's eyes definitely seem a bit lighter than Nia's. I love your field cocker by the way!

A couple more pics from today









Dats my ball









This is what excited Nia looks like









Happy









Ai seez a buttfly!


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## lucidity

Best photo I can find of Cadence's eyes:










Sorry about the quality.. it was taken with my phone.

And today at the petstore:









Sorry no face! She kept moving about and here she's checking out the American Eskie puppy next to her who wouldn't stop barking.

This little girl and her sister were on display for $1800. I asked the worker there where they get their dogs from and he said "all our dogs are from the States". I asked specifically where they came from and he said "some AKC facility". Bullsh**.  The Pappy puppies were so, so adorable though. I feel so sorry for them. My friend asked the guy what they do with puppies they can't sell, and he said that they've NEVER not been able to sell a puppy before. :O I call bulls*** again.

But on the other hand, I officially have puppy fever!

ETA: I wonder why people would pay $1800 for a puppy mill dog when they can get a well-bred one for $1200-$1500 with "lifetime insurance".


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## Michiyo-Fir

I saw a little sable boy in the pet store here like a month ago and I played with him for like an hr. So adorable. I took a look at his pedigree and I know NONE of the kennels listed and half his pedigree is blank. I asked the worker about it and she said they don't know that side of him.... Here it's $2200 for a puppy! 

I think it might be true that they don't have leftover puppies ever because the older they get, the cheaper they become! I've seen some dogs here still unsold by about 6 months and their price drops to like $400. Poor dogs


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## lucidity

That's so dodgy. The petstore was boasting that all their puppies are AKC reg'd... and then there was this one "Zuchon". -__-""

Poor puppies.  I feel so sorry for them. The guy said that they never get to play with each other and it seems like all they do is sleep in their cages all day long. I saw this one Italian Greyhound pup sleeping beside her own poop 

Some photos from Thanksgiving 









Cadence + his buddies, Miki and Austin.









Aren't we evil? :rockon:









Cadence the sad Pappy.









Sup, dude???


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## Crantastic

Haha, the sunglasses! I'm amazed you managed to get three dogs to sit there with those on for long enough to snap multiple pictures!

I had Crystal and Casper out running in the ballpark today. I wish these weren't blurry... my camera is great for still shots but not so good with action. You can tell the dogs are having fun, anyway!



















Here's a video of us practicing her stay and recall... with Casper interfering. 



And another try. She tries hard to avoid him, but he tackles her anyway. 

Here's one of Crystal perched on the back of the couch.


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## lucidity

Haha I had help actually  My friends were dangling turkey breast on my head and telling them "STAY!!!", and you know.. doggies would do anything for some yummy turkey breast!

And omg, I can't believe how big Casper has gotten!! How old is he now? Is he gonna get any bigger?


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## Crantastic

He's eight and a half months old now and I don't think he'll get any taller, just a bit heavier. He's been filling out more lately and his legs don't look as long now, haha. He's about 16 inches tall at the shoulder, putting him firmly in the standard size category. He's so dainty, though; he weighs just 14 lbs. He's smaller than I expected a standard AKK to be. Crystal's 11 3/4 inches at the shoulder, so he doesn't tower over her, anyway.


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## PappyMom

I'm loving all the pics guys, and I'm trying to catch up! I've been MIA for a while, but I owe you Roxy pictures!! Glad to see everyone's doing well though!!


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## chelec39

This is my first post here, I found the site when I was searching the net for info on Paps. My new baby, I got him about 3 months ago when he was taken from his owners by our local SPCA. The day he came in was one of my volunteer days, and I fell in love with him as soon as I saw him. He only weighed a little over 2 lbs, his beautiful hair was was matted, and it took me 6 baths to get rid of the fleas and dried blood he was covered in from them biting him. A lot of love, food, grooming, and a hernia operation later, he is now a happy, healthy, lovable little guy that sleeps on top of my head. He's an absolute joy to have, these are some tough little dogs.


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## Michiyo-Fir

He's gorgeous! How did he get surrendered is just beyond me...and wow he's a tiny one!


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## sandydj

Adorable little dogs! ^ those group shots are awesome!


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## Laurelin

Oh wow your little guy is gorgeous! Welcome to the wonderful world of papillon ownership.


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## Papilove

chelec39 said:


> This is my first post here, I found the site when I was searching the net for info on Paps. My new baby, I got him about 3 months ago when he was taken from his owners by our local SPCA. The day he came in was one of my volunteer days, and I fell in love with him as soon as I saw him. He only weighed a little over 2 lbs, his beautiful hair was was matted, and it took me 6 baths to get rid of the fleas and dried blood he was covered in from them biting him. A lot of love, food, grooming, and a hernia operation later, he is now a happy, healthy, lovable little guy that sleeps on top of my head. He's an absolute joy to have, these are some tough little dogs.



What a little sweetie! I'm so glad you were there to give him a great home!


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## BooLette

Hey guys! It's been a while, but Root turned a year old today! I'll have to get some pictures of him for everyone. He is SO big! The last time he was weighed he was over 13lbs, so I don't doubt that he is at LEAST 15 now.

Well, I'm off to get pics.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Love to see some pics!

I actually haven't met a Pap over 8 lbs yet but I'd love to meet a big one. I think a bigger Pap would be really cool to have but I've never really felt my small 6 lb Pap is fragile or can be stepped on either. Too bad there aren't enough Paps around and all the ones I meet are my/other breeders' dogs.


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## BooLette

He's my love.


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## Michiyo-Fir

He's so adorable! So much more mature than the last time you posted pics  He's looking great!


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## Laurelin

Awww it's Root! He's adorable! For some reason I thought he was older than Mia, but he's over half a year younger! I don't know why I thought he was older.


----------



## BooLette

Laurelin said:


> Awww it's Root! He's adorable! For some reason I thought he was older than Mia, but he's over half a year younger! I don't know why I thought he was older.


Because he's a monster? lol


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## lucidity

Lol, Cadence weighed in at 9.8lbs again last week at the vet! He seems to be hovering between 9.2 and 9.8.

Anyway I have lots of news! Didn't really want to start a new thread so I'm just gonna update here.  I am back in Malaysia now. It's been the longest week of my life, sigh. Cadence is in the quarantine station at the airport  He was so scared when I picked him up at the baggage claim area, and he was shaking. He didn't drink a single drop of water or eat any of his food the entire 24 hour trip :O Poor guy.

I've been visiting him at the quarantine centre daily. It's pretty isolated and lonely, but otherwise it's okay. A bit run down but the people who work there are very helpful and nice and they've been doing a good job keeping Cadence's kennel run clean. There's a small garden outside that he gets to run around in when I visit. It's still really stressful and heartbreaking for me, though. Every time I leave he sits by the door and cries.  I can't wait for the 7 days to be over already!

On a happier note, I went to a couple of petstores to get supplies and I'm so glad that I found all the good brands of food here  There's everything by Natura, Acana, Orijen, NB, Wellness, Addiction, and even some premade raw! The only thing I couldn't find were bully sticks. Boo. I'm going to have to hunt around for that, I think. I even found all the brands that I could get in Canada for supplements, shampoos (Biogroom, Earthbath, etc.), toys (Kongs, etc.) and treats. 

I will take pictures of Cadence's adventure in hot, hot, Malaysia once he's out of quarantine. Fingers crossed and wish us luck!

ETA: I've been in contact with an Australian breeder about getting a new puppy/retired adult. Now all I need to do is convince my parents that 2 Paps are better than 1.  They are really beginning to like Cadence (they used to hate animals) now. I'm still debating on whether to get a puppy or adult, but I'm leaning towards adult right now.. just because I really don't miss the potty training days, lol. But if the breeder ends up not rehoming her bitch, I might just end up with a puppy!


----------



## Papilove

Wow that has to be stressful. I'm glad he's holding up okay. Are you going to be there long?


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## lucidity

Cadence is pretty resilient I think, so I hope he'll be just fine! He seems a bit depressed right now but I guess it's to be expected.

I'm going to be here for a couple of years at least, maybe more. I like to think that I'll move back to Canada someday, but everything is really up in the air right now. =/ I really am going to miss Vancouver, though!

Btw, I think we need new pics of Batty! She's so grown up now I can't believe it was that long ago since you were talking about bringing her home


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## Papilove

Oh, wow, I didn't know it was such a long term thing. I'm glad Cadence is able to take it. I think Batty would... well go batty. lol. She's such a drama queen though. I've been putting off getting her spayed because of what a horrible drama queens she is. I just know it's going to be horrible. LOL I finally scheduled it for the begining of Nov. 

I really want to post some more, but suck so bad at getting good pictures of her. LOL Oh but she's been trying my patience this last week. It seems like she really gets great about housebreaking and regular puppy stuff like the play biting, and holds it for weeks, then all of a sudden regresses to like she has no idea... argh, and I have to completely go back to the begining, and that lasts for a few days.. now she's my sweet angel again, but I just know in a few weeks she's gonna pull the regression thing. Man, do they ever stop that? I keep telling myself it's just the 'teen' stage, but argh.


----------



## lucidity

Oh man, tell me about that teenage rebellion phase. Did not like it at all!! Cadence wasn't 100% reliably potty trained until he was 8-9 months old.. and even then his bladder kinda sucked until he was almost one. Now he can pretty much hold it 7-8 hours in the day.

Anyway, it's been 4 days at the quarantine centre and 3 days to go!! I'm really hating the 100km drive back/forth there everyday. Ugh, but Cadence looks so depressed whenever I leave. He sits by the door and cries 

At least he has some doggy company now. Someone imported 2 show GSDs (one adult, one puppy) from Germany and they're kenneled next to Cadence. It's kind of fascinating to watch. There are tons of people who visit the GSDs. The owner (an older gentleman and his wife), the importer, and the handler come everyday. Yesterday I watched the handler walking the adult GSD (who by the way, is IMPRESSIVE!). They also kept calling the puppy "super puppy" and kept complimenting her amazing ears, muzzle, and structure. I feel so sorry for her though. It must be hell for a puppy being locked up in a small room all day long.


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## Papilove

Aw poor little Cadence. That has to just break your heart when he cries when you leave. I imagine that is just horrible for that little puppy, but maybe it isn't so bad since at that age they don't really know what's 'normal' yet. Still, first time away from 'home' and being stuck in a kennel. Is the adult the puppy's dam? That would make it easier on her.

Thanks for the bit about Cadence's teen period. That actually helped, because aside from those occasional days when she seems to forget everything, even on the good days she wants to go out every couple hours and I'm like you should be holding it 6 or 7 hours right? What's up with that? She does hold it about seven hours at night now before whining to go out. So that's good.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Poor Cadence! Does every dog that enters Malaysia have to be quarantined regardless of what kind of health certificates and shots they get?? Also do you have to pay for the quarantine facilities? At least it'll be over soon! 

Nia never had much of a teenage rebellious period. She pretty much came to me 90% potty trained at almost 6 months old and she never really did have a bad potty phase that I kept expecting but never experienced. I guess I got lucky  Or maybe because she's always been mischievous and chews up everything that I never noticed it was worse at one point. Maybe that's when she chewed those holes in our wall?? I'm really not sure.


----------



## Papilove

I think it could be a lot worse, Batty is 90% potty trained easily. Most of the time I have nothing to worry about, although she still doesn't have a 'long' all day type hold. Then again, she really doesn't have to, and she probably knows it. I mean I'm home all the time. The longest she has to be crated is a couple hours for me to go shopping once or twice a week, or maybe a couple hours for us to go out to eat. It's just usually it seems like one or two days every few weeks when she just seems to forget everything, biting, potty training, anything... then, suddenly, she's right as rain and my sweet puppy again. ??? LOL She's just Batty, I guess.


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## lucidity

Papilove said:


> Is the adult the puppy's dam? That would make it easier on her.


No, the adult GSD is a male... but he might be the sire, I'm not too sure. The puppy also sits by the door and whines all day! She's SO cute, though. And super playful! I think she's about 4-5 months old. 



Michiyo-Fir said:


> Poor Cadence! Does every dog that enters Malaysia have to be quarantined regardless of what kind of health certificates and shots they get?? Also do you have to pay for the quarantine facilities? At least it'll be over soon!


Yeah, pretty much. It has something to do with the fact that Malaysia is a rabies-free country.. so only dogs coming in from other rabies free countries (Japan, UK, Australia, NZ, Singapore, Taiwan etc.) can come in without being quarantined. Yeah, I have to pay for the facilities but it's really cheap--something like RM6 ($2) per day. The caretakers are pretty good though. Yesterday they fed the dogs some cheese, lol!

Ughh... I can't wait for this week to be over. It's been the longest week of my life! And I think Cadence is picking up fleas there. Ugh. And I just put some Revolution on him 3 weeks ago. I'm going to put a new tube on him today. Hopefully it works -__- I've been hearing horror stories about fleas becoming immune to everything!


----------



## Crantastic

I went to a dog show today! This time I actually took pictures of a bunch of the papillons.

This is T-Rex. He just turned six months old on Tuesday.










This is Disco. He's going to Taiwan after he finishes his championship here.










T-Rex and Disco want out!










I forget this one's name, but he has a very intense stare! (Edit: He's Wicket.)










Pet girl, just along for the ride.










Another pet girl. A dachshund bit her in the eye and it had to be removed.










Gorgeous boy... not sure of his name.










Sully, who went best of breed over two specials (not pictured, but one of them was Lola, who I photographed last show) and finished her championship today.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Which breeder is the black and white dog and the last dog out of?

You're so lucky you get to go to so many shows btw! I can't drive and all the shows around here are at least 2-3 hrs drive away which I can never make it to


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## Crantastic

Sully is a Diamondsun dog. I'm not sure if the other (which is actually a tri, but with very little brown) was bred at Ruffcut or not, but the lady from there owns it, and the other tri here as well (they are siblings and their names are Emma and Wicket):



















This is Lady:










There are three shows per year here on the island, which is pretty good! None of them are very big, though. I did get to see some neat breeds at this one, including a rough Ibizan hound, a Shar Pei and a standard Xoloitzcuintle. I'm going back all day tomorrow, so I'll probably get more pics!


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## Michiyo-Fir

Awww such sweet pappy babies! 

I quite like a few of Diamondsun's dogs  I find though, it seems breeders along the East coast likes more big, rounded heads on Paps vs. around here most breeders like a smaller, less stop, more pointed head. I wish I could attend shows all over Canada and compare the type differences in different locations. It's just so interesting!


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## Laurelin

Oooh I love the black and white puppy. What a pretty face it has!


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## BooLette

Ugh you guys make me want a pap pup from a good breeder SO bad. There is one that I have been watching for what seems like forever now... and she is even on the larger side like Root....


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## Michiyo-Fir

Took a few today for testing photoshop. I just got CS5 on this computer after not using photoshop for the last 2 yrs or so.









Not too sure how to use photoshop to edit photos lol. I only used to use it for digital art...









Getting late today, I'll probably edit/post a few more tomorrow after work and Halloween craziness.


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## Papilove

Great pictures of the show papillons. What beauties they are. That first little boy sure does have fringe already at 6 months. I love the black/white too. Gorgeous.


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## Laurelin

I use CS3 on all my pictures. I'm not sure how you're SUPPOSED to edit them but here's what I do...

Balance levels first and foremost. 
Use the curves tool and brightness/contrast to fix exposure as much as possible.
Balance color.
Check hue/saturation (I either bump it up or bump it down depending on the effect I want).
resize
Reduce noise in the background if need be.
Smart sharpen select parts of the picture. I used to sharpen all the foreground but now I usually leave it softer except the point of focus. (dog's face usually)

ETA: Oh, I also highlight the dog's eyes and edit them if possible. Bump the curves up on the eye and brighten it. Also may add saturation to the eye too.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Thanks Laurelin! 

I have no idea how to use the curves tool >.< I just end up using the contrast, brightness, temp, tint, etc. The sliding bar ones.

I have to try highlighting the dog's eyes. I find photoshop so complicated lol.


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## Laurelin

Curves is a lot more specialized way to make things lighter or darker. Just play around with it and you'll see. I'm not sure on CS5 but on CS3 it's under image, adjust, curves. You can lighten certain color channels and things like that. Very useful.


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## Crantastic

Got more pictures today... and remembered all the names I'd forgotten, heh (the two tris who look like black/whites are siblings Wicket and Emma -- Wicket has the wide blaze; Emma the skinny one).

This is Lady:










Disco in the ring:










Zera, who I also photographed last show -- she's a true black/white:










Sully again:










And Dexter, my favorite papillon aside from mine. They have the same dad. Dexter has already been a champion for a while. Today he took best of breed and group fourth. I told Crystal's breeder that I wanted to take Dexter home with me.


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## Laurelin

Yeah Dexter is REALLY handsome!

Here's my two guys today:










They have nice clean feet, did you notice?


----------



## Cracker

Well we finally have a pap in our monday night classes. Her name is Flirt and she's white and black, a really nice little dog. She's a bit older than the rest of the pups but just as cute.
I may, if the owner okays it, take a pic eventually.


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## proudmama

.I know i havent been on in a while but i just started keeping up...i wanted to post some updated pics of my dogs i remember some of yall was wandering how they would look growing up. I think they are turning out pretty good...skyler is at a great home with lots of friends in maine now she is no longer my baby but we keep in touch with her pap mama every week..mickey has stayed with us. and romeo found a good home with a family friend and 2 cats
From left to right is Skyler 10 wks old and skyler 8 months old....then mickey 10 wks and 2 pics of mickey 8 months old. then romeo 10 wks and romeo 8 months old...


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## Crantastic

They're all cute! I really like Skyler. I like a lot of color on the body. One of my breeder friends told me that the all-white body and color just on the head was the fad for quite a while. I think that's cute enough, but I really prefer patches of color. I like color in the tail, too... like Jojo here. He's the first papillon I saw (online while researching them) that really made me fall for the breed. Crystal has a "fox tail" (red at the base with a band of black, then all white down to the tip -- you can kind of tell in this picture), which I also really like.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Nia's tail is very similar to Crystal's.










I love Skyler as well! He looks so unique without a blaze and being hound tri. I don't think I've seen another like him! Your pups are growing up beautifully!


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## barnetto

It was a beautiful day today. I took some pictures.

Simone:









Pepin:


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## Michiyo-Fir

Love them! Simone and Pepin kind of remind me of Nia when she was younger. Their coloring is quite similar to Nia's.


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## Papilove

They are growing up so cute!!!


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## barnetto

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Love them! Simone and Pepin kind of remind me of Nia when she was younger. Their coloring is quite similar to Nia's.



The coloration does look very similar. Is that considered Sable?


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## Michiyo-Fir

Yup it's sable! How old are Simone and Pepin now?

Added 2 pics of Nia. I know, I know, I already posted them before separately but I thought the Pap thread can benefit from more pap pics 




















Btw, Laurelin, how's your friend's Pap forum coming along??


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## Nargle

Basil says "Hey guys, I can be small like all of the other Paps, too! Just look!"









Here's a picture I sketched of Basil really quickly. I may clean it up and color it later. This is how he looks when he sees a squirrel, lol!


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## barnetto

They are eight months now. And they've got some hair now, which is nice.

@Nargle, love the sketch. So much personality.
My pap doodles always end up looking like rabbits.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Basil is so cute  I love it when Paps curl up into tiny balls. The other day I almost sat on Nia because she curled into a little ball in a sea of blankets. Then I noticed a rapidly flapping tail tip LOL. I really wish i had a bigger Pap like Basil...Nia's so tiny when she curls up, she smaller than my 13" laptop. 

Love your sketch too


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## Laurelin

Oh... I actually forgot about it.  

Adding a couple pics:






























Do you any of you guys have dogs that lie down like this? Summer always has no legs.











Love the sketch by the way! I drew a papi picture the other day. i may have to upload it,.


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## Papilove

Nargle said:


> Here's a picture I sketched of Basil really quickly. I may clean it up and color it later. This is how he looks when he sees a squirrel, lol!


That's terrific!!! I'd frame that just how it is.


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## Nargle

Thanks for the compliments on my sketch, guys! :biggrin1: Laurelin, Basil will frequently do the "no-legs" lay, lol! Sometimes I call him "Snake dog" because he'll lay down along the couch with his tail stretched straight out behind him and his head stretched out in front, with no legs visible. He looks like a snake!!


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## Michiyo-Fir

Nia almost never lies down with no legs. She'll often lie down with one leg like that and one normal as if she only has 3 legs. She does it when she wants something like play, food, etc.


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## barnetto

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Basil is so cute  I love it when Paps curl up into tiny balls.


I followed them for days and yesterday got this image of them balled up together:









And this one is a favorite:









I'll keep a look out for legless, but they probably need longer hair.


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## Michiyo-Fir

OMG the 2 paps balled up together is the best pictures ever! They look like big bunny rabbits! I wish I had 2 paps, they look like they have such a great time together


----------



## Laurelin

They look like foxes! I have a pic of two foxes curled up that way too.

And Michiyo, everyone needs at least 2 papillons. Mine love each other so much.


----------



## PappyMom

These aren't the best pics, but I haven't contributed in a while! If you guys only knew what we've been up to! lol!





























Hehehehe.. I woke up to that!



We clearly need to have a better photo shoot..lmao..butttt I just figured I'd update a little!
I've finally gotten a job out here, been working alot, got a new boyfriend...wrapped up in my sisters school and girl scouts....and I'm trying to go back to school myself! The new boyfriend LOVES Roxy...and he has 3 dogs himself...an italian greyhound, a whippet, and a terrier/gsd mix. =]


EDIT : Apparently my upload urls aren't working...trying to fix it..


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## Michiyo-Fir

Roxy is so tiny and just a doll! I love it when dogs snuggle up to my head/head/chest to sleep, it's so adorable! How old is she now? I keep forgetting!


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## PappyMom

Roxy is about a year and 8 months. =] It's easy to forget how old she is because she's still so little..lol..Laur said it perfectly, she's a perpetual puppy..
We really don't go very many places without eachother.. She's such a sweet, warm-hearted dog. We pick my sister up from school every day and she gives all the kids lovin'...but she's so gentle and always keeps all four paws on the floor. She's just perfect..


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## lucidity

I can't stop admiring this dog.. he's just so, so, so pretty! Look at that fur.... he must be the best looking Pap I've ever seen.

http://www.forussi.pl/p.Keno_en.htm


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## Michiyo-Fir

Hee  I just looove Forussi Paps' type. I LOVE their heads. I think they are producing my favorite heads out of any Pap breeder that I know. They're so refined and dainty looking.


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## lucidity

Me too!! It's too bad that Poland is just so farrrrrrrr away, lol.


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## Laurelin

Overall he's nice but there's a few nitpicks I have about him. He looks _really_ short in the leg to my eyes and his ears look weak (like my Bernard's). They flop in a little like Bernards, which is sometimes a sign of cartilage that is too thin. Ears are too small and set too high as well (like Beau's, but this dog is fringed better) His head actually reminds me a lot of Nard's. Muzzle seems a touch long imo. 

I like this dog much much better:

http://www.forussi.pl/p.Limbo_en.htm

That dog is stunning! Great headpiece, great angle and shape on the ears. Gorgeous expression. Nice build from the looks of it too and great tail set. and I adore the heavily colored coat too. 

LOL


----------



## Crantastic

I agree with Laurelin; I like that one better. Better earset, better ear shape, less of a high/bulgy skull. I like the muzzle better as well. 

The Forussi dogs are pretty in general, but some of them almost have too much coat for my liking, and a couple of them (like this one) have muzzles that seem a tad too long. Actually, I'm not fond of that one at all... too much coat, ears too close together/high on the head, and I don't like that muzzle. This one looks short in the leg as well, although the coat could be throwing me off.


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## lucidity

No idea how show judges judge Paps... I was basing my opinions off what I find cute 

I love Keno because of his markings and his expression. I didn't even notice his ears were small! Also I LOVE Paps with long, long coats.. and Keno's fur touching the ground, I really like. 

In general I prefer longer muzzles. I feel like shorter muzzles make Paps look more like Chihuahuas... 

I think their dogs might look short because of the length of their fur. It's so hard to see how long their legs are because of all that fur.


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## Crantastic

Muzzle is supposed to be 1/3 the length of the head, but shape is kind of up to personal preference. I don't like a pap that looks too much like a chihuahua, either (which is why I'm not fond of the ones with higher skulls/bulgier foreheads), but I don't like what Crystal's breeder calls a "sheltie nose" either... I like the ones that are in the middle. The standard calls for a well-defined stop, too.

It definitely could be the coat throwing me off, but some of those dogs just look a little too compact and boxy to me. Paps are supposed to be slightly longer than they are tall.


----------



## Laurelin

I like a nice medium muzzle, not too snipy but not chihuahua length. (says I with possibly the snippiest muzzled papillon ever lol) Sheltie nose is a good way to describe Mia's snout... We always call her the long faced dog. 

I think most papillons are pretty but I also have shown them before so those kinds of things stick out to me. Especially ear set and shape. 

In general I don't like floor length coats, I think they're overdone and not functional. Of my five, the three with shorter coats are SO much more easy to groom. Rose and Beau are about 5 times the work of the others because their hair is so thick and long (Rose's almost touches the ground).

I'm trying to think of who some of my favorites are... I typically like the older American lines best style wise. They're less coated and usually longer legged (but less refined in the head).

Btw, I can nitpick my own dogs too of course lol.

Here's a good basic link for papillon conformation: http://www.judgesl.com/Papillon/index.html

Just kind of a basic start. Braylor's has some good info here too: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/versatility.htm (It's at the bottom)

There's a lot of room to interpret the standard of course. There were some judges that hated Beau's type and others that loved him. To be honest, he's not exactly what I prefer (too blocky) but he's a nice dog. I think of mine, Nard is my favorite type-wise (just looks, I'm never buying another QB bred dog though).


----------



## Crantastic

I don't know the lines well enough to choose a favorite... I just look at specific dogs and quickly know whether I like them or not. Ears set too high really bother me, too. It makes the whole head look really long when viewed from the front. Papillons with ears like that remind me of a donkey, haha. 

Crystal's breeder has a bitch right now that she affectionately calls her "ugly dog." She doesn't have much coat and her nose tends more toward the sheltie nose. She comes from good lines, which is why the breeder got her in the first place; she wants these lines in her program. The breeder's pairing her with Crystal's brother, who has a shorter muzzle and a bit too much coat. I think she may get some nice moderate puppies out of this pairing. We'll find out soon -- I believe they're due December 8th. I will go visit when they're six/seven weeks old and get some pictures.


----------



## Laurelin

I love this dog's head and ears. (I guess her muzzle is a bit thick for some tastes but I like the more spaniely muzzle): http://www.braylorspapillons.com/dianeped.htm

This dog is just breathtaking in real life (though he has a lot of coat for my tastes, and he has a blockier head):

http://www.flashpointpapillons.com/


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## Michiyo-Fir

Actually in terms of Forussi dogs, Limbah http://www.forussi.pl/p.Limahl_pl.htm is one of my favorites. I LOVE his head. I generally prefer a tad longer muzzle compared to a shorter blockier head. 

I like this dog's length of leg and coat. Actually on the website, their dogs always look like they have too much coat and I've met 2 in real life, they aren't actually like that.

For example this dog Bravo looks like he has loads and loads of coat in the photos on their website
http://www.forussi.pl/p.Bravo_pl.htm

but in reality he doesn't really look like that. In reality he looks like this. This is him showing recently in Canada. He placed very well  He's the 4th Pap in Canada right now and he wasn't shown all that much.


















From what I've seen, the Forussi dogs actually have pretty good length of leg and good light bones in general. I don't like Paps with really heavy bone.

Edit: I like a lot of Braylor's dog heads as well. They produce more longer/thinner muzzles as well with less stop usually and I like that. 

For example this dog's head I quite like
http://www.braylorspapillons.com/beamerped.htm

This guy too 
http://www.braylorspapillons.com/morganped.htm


----------



## Laurelin

The top dog looks like a dog I know, BIS Ch Gail's on Thin Ice of CL





















Michiyo-Fir said:


> A
> Edit: I like a lot of Braylor's dog heads as well. They produce more longer/thinner muzzles as well with less stop usually and I like that.


LOL you're telling me.










Mia's definitely got the longest nose of our 5. I actually like the length, but she's a bit snippy imo. I've talked to Brandi about head type some and it's really up for personal preference. I like a little bit of a thicker head... Nard is pretty close for me really. His ear leather is thin though.

ETA: God, I'm getting such a thing for the dark hounds... All three of them are just gorgeous! I think it may be because I had shelties for so long and I just love the widow's peak look. I think it adds so much expression to their faces. (Then again I'm biased) I am not a big fan of the lighter hound tris though and you can unfortunately not tell when they're young how dark or light they'll end up. But Merlin, Mia, and that Forussi dog have just the right amount of fading for me.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Now I want another Pap.... The dog above, the one in the show photos actually lives pretty close to me right now and has sired quite a few litters recently including 2 for Nia's breeder. I want one of his pups


----------



## Laurelin

I always want another pap. I have 5 and I still would like another couple (phalene, traditional tri, and a black and white)


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> Overall he's nice but there's a few nitpicks I have about him. He looks _really_ short in the leg to my eyes and his ears look weak (like my Bernard's). They flop in a little like Bernards, which is sometimes a sign of cartilage that is too thin. Ears are too small and set too high as well (like Beau's, but this dog is fringed better) His head actually reminds me a lot of Nard's. Muzzle seems a touch long imo.
> 
> I like this dog much much better:
> 
> http://www.forussi.pl/p.Limbo_en.htm
> 
> That dog is stunning! Great headpiece, great angle and shape on the ears. Gorgeous expression. Nice build from the looks of it too and great tail set. and I adore the heavily colored coat too.
> 
> LOL


I think I agree with you on this dog. Although I liked the head on the previous dog, I really liked the shape of his muzzle even if it was a tiny bit too long. I took a closer look and definitely agree with you on the ears.

However, weirdly enough I just looked through the 2 dogs again and I saw that the first dog Keno, won a lot more shows than Limbo did. He had titles left, right and center. 

I wonder if Limbo was shown limitedly or the breeders thought he was of lesser quality?


Edit: I'm surprised with 5 Paps you have 4 sables though! Did you always just pick the sable puppy or luck just ended up that way? The most popular and common colors produced around my area are always traditional Tris. Very few sables are produced. I'm actually pretty surprised I ended up with a sable dog. Especially a darker one like Nia because there aren't any in the lines around here. I prefer a lighter sable over a dark one though.

Hound tri is my favorite color, I don't care about how dark or light they are, I think they're just gorgeous. Mia is just so adorable! <3 I like traditional tris quite a lot too.

I like Mia's overall type. Her nose is a bit too extreme in length and snippy but overall she looks really good. Beau is so cute and funny but in terms of type he's not really my preference. I think he's too blocky/heavily built for my taste. But I don't like Nia's head 100% either. I think it's looking a bit better in the last year or so but I thought she had a little too much stop and dome to her head. It could be me getting used to it though. I wouldn't mind a little bit more angular and pointier muzzle either but the length is good imo.


----------



## Laurelin

Beau's breeder just almost always produces sables so that's what we got. Mia's breeder has a lot of hounds and sables mostly, so I was glad to get a hound. We did have a traditional tricolor at one point but we lost him as a puppy.  He was gorgeous and I'd love another one day. 

Overall I like Nard's head the best but I really like Beau's build. It's hard to see in pictures and especially since he's never groomed up like he was. He is solidly built. Very tight and compact, perfectly level topline. He's gained a little weight since his neuter this summer so he's on a diet but he's usually super muscled. My biggest complaints are his head type, it's blockier but he's got a lot of English lines in him so it's expected. He's got so-so ears, nothing spectacular. His tail is way too tight too. But he is put together very very nicely. We could have easily specialed him if we'd wanted. He finished in just a few shows with two back to back 5 points at the regional specialty. 

When he was all done up for show:










We actually took the time to grow fringe on him too (he's a hard fringe keeper)










Nard is built nicely too but he's a bit less solid. It would help if he'd ever gain weight but he's just so skinny all the time. Rose is short in the back and I'm not fond of her stop at all. Her head is very wedge shaped. Mia's body is nice but her head is snippy, which I don't like. And poor Summer... she's roached a bit and has short wavy hair. I don't like Summer's body as much as the others. It's very lanky and long, but she's still very athletic. summer was never show quality though but the other 4 are (I bought Mia on a spay contract instead and Rose failed showing)


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I think out of all of your Paps, I like Mia's amount of bone and build the best. She has a bit longer legs as well it seems. Beau is a little too heavily built for my taste. I think it could be that he has so much hair now and it's hard to tell. He looks good in the show photos from a couple years ago.

Nard would probably look pretty good if he gained some weight but overall, Nard is a really nice dog, I like his type a lot too. I remember you said he was going to be shown, has he started yet?

Nia was supposed to be "show quality" but I don't see how she should've been because she is a tad butt high and her front is not very good. Plus her personality wouldn't suit the show ring one bit. Her breeder did want to keep her and grow her out though. Guess she never grew out the way that was expected  But lucky for me I have her now


----------



## amavanna

omg some of these pictures are just amazing! I mean really great quailty photos of just beautiful pooches


----------



## Laurelin

Thank you ama! Your puppy is gorgeous too. 

Mia doesn't have enough bone to me honestly! I call her toothpick legs. Her legs are very thin. Beau's coat is unruly these days and it tends to stick out like a fro. He's actually very moderate and not very stocky. His head type is very thick and large (we call him Brain like from Pinky and the Brain). He's solid, but not a really stocky dog. It's hard unless you really get to put your hands on them, but Beau's really put together the best of the five. 










Here's some more pics of Beau from when he was showing.


----------



## amavanna

just stunning! I have dreams of having a dog with fur more beautiful then my own hair ( yea its just gorgeous * blows hair out of face and throws it in a bun*)

Saddly though I don't my husband could ever deal with that kind of shedding , I always wanted a border collie, but until I can RUN those two miles a day I wouldn't even consider it lol.


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal really doesn't shed much. I think it varies, though... her breeder complains about how she has to sweep/vacuum constantly or else she might as well buy more crates for the hairballs and start naming them. She has six dogs right now, though!

I don't know if this book has been mentioned at some point in this loooooong thread, but Crystal's breeder has a hardcover copy of "The Complete Illustrated Standard for the Papillon and Phalene" and I was looking through it last time I was over. It is an awesome book. The photos and illustrations (of which there are tons) are gorgeous and it explains everything to do with every part of the papillon and phalene. I think she had to have it shipped over from England. I'm kind of coveting it, even though I don't breed and don't _need_ a copy, heh! Here are some examples of the pages.


----------



## Laurelin

That's interesting! I like this page about the topline and the note about overcoating on the bottom: http://www.nouveaupaps.co.uk/standards11.htm


----------



## mitzi

Beautiful Paps, people!


----------



## barnetto

My boyfriend got this calendar:

http://www.calendars.com/Papillons/Toy-/Just-Papillons-2011-Wall-Calendar/prod1289958/

And we were flipping through till (I think) August when I stopped and was like, I've seen this dog before!

I'd say someone on here is a model, but I'm at work and can't flip through 64 pages of thread trying to figure out where I've seen it before. Does anyone recognize their dog, or their dog's twin here?


----------



## Laurelin

I don't recognize any of them. I will say that July dog looks a lot like my Rose (but rose is prettier lol/jk)


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I thought the July dog really looks like Nia too O_O Does that mean Rose looks like Nia?

The hound tri reminds me of a Pap named Jill or Gill or something like that that used to be on here but she's a sable not a hound tri. Barnetto you might be thinking of Willie or Jill?

LOL July dog has the same sparse ear fringes as Nia 

Thought I'd add a few pics I haven't shared before.

Nia got a new hair style today. It's called electrify!









Seriously though..I hate static electricity! Nia's hair is sticking up every which way all the time these days 


You finkz my ear hair be growin? I trying the hardest to made dem grow









How about now? Dey longer?









Grow fringes grow! I need to pluck off some of Rose or Nard's fringes and stick it on Nia's ears with super glue 

I wonder if her coat will grow more. I hope so. I need more fluff to squish and snuggle with!
Eating some sort of dirt or garbage >.>









last one


----------



## lucidity

I agree with you Michi, I think that July dog really looks like Mia! And aww I love that last pic of her. PS at least she DOES have fringe!!

Anyway guys I was wondering if this dog here is a tri or a sable? The masking on his face is making it hard for me to tell:

http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=37153


----------



## Nargle

lucidity said:


> I agree with you Michi, I think that July dog really looks like Mia! And aww I love that last pic of her. PS at least she DOES have fringe!!
> 
> Anyway guys I was wondering if this dog here is a tri or a sable? The masking on his face is making it hard for me to tell:
> 
> http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=37153


Not entirely sure, but I'd guess that dog is sable, with a really big black mask, like Rose. Every tri-color I've seen tends to have tan in the ears, and sable dogs tend to get black ears. Does that make any sense? 

I'm not sure if sable dogs tend to have black on their backs, though, which that dog seems to have.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I can't tell 100% if the color on his body is black or sable. I think that's a sable dog based on the fact I think I see his body coat color as being dark brown.

Sometimes tris and sables look exactly the same if you only look at their heads (think of light hound tris), the only way to tell is to see if the patches on the body is either black or brown. Tris can have a bit of tan under the tail as well so that doesn't count into the decision.

Mondelise has a lot of dark dark sables from what I remember so I'm pretty sure that's a sable dog.


Edit: Hmm I might be wrong. I can't tell for sure but it appears both parents were hound tris? I can't tell if the sire is a sable or hound tri because there's no good shots of the entire body.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm 99% sure that's a really heavily shaded sable. It's confusing... hound tri versus sable... Hound tris would be classed as sables in most breeds and TECHNICALLY I believe the pattern is sable, it's just called 'tri' in paps...


----------



## lucidity

Hmm... yeah, he looks more like a really dark sable to me too. Unfortunately those are the only photos of him I was given. Can you guys critique his head/form?

I'm looking at a litter sired by him. The dam is a classic tri.


----------



## Laurelin

Overall I quite like him, he looks really nice from what I can see.


----------



## lucidity

I see... I'm really bad at judging, lol. He is a bit dark for my liking, but I quite like the dam. Here she is: http://www.calpap.com/dog.asp?dog=44844

Ah, I still don't know if I'm 100% ready for a second dog, lol! Is it a lot harder going from 1 to 2? I keep worrying about having to walk 2 dogs at once, getting 2 dogs on a pee/poop schedule etc etc... and I really don't want a baby 8-10 week old puppy to raise. I love puppies but I don't think I have the energy for them right now, lol.


----------



## Crantastic

I haven't found two dogs much harder at all. If you feed them at the same time, their pee/poop schedule should be similar. I take mine out together and they almost always both go right away. Walking them together is fine because I taught them both good leash manners. The only annoyance is that instead of one dog barking at the doorbell, I have two... but I can live with that.


----------



## Laurelin

I like the sire a lot better. 

I'm sure part of my issue with the dam is there's no real stacked shot of her and the one that is there where you can see her legs and feet, she's not groomed. I can't stand hairy legs on them. Color and markings really have no affect on quality (okay the whole blaze thing is a big debate). The dark sables are really prominent in a lot of the european lines I've noticed. They can look really good.

I don't like the dam's rear very much from what I can see. Her topline appears to slop up. The tail is not very fringed and seems a bit loose. A lot of it is just coat, I know she's only 1 in the pics and not groomed up as nicely as the sire. Her coat is really all over the place in those pics so I can't see much at all. Her front looks east/west from that pic but again it's hard to judge based on that pic. The sire is hard to see since there's no shot of him to the side but I like him overall. He's a lot more typey imo. My only dislike is his eyes seem a touch close together but that could well just be the angle of the pics. 

Honestly going to 3 dogs is where the big jump is. One to two will be fine.


----------



## lucidity

Crantastic said:


> I haven't found two dogs much harder at all. If you feed them at the same time, their pee/poop schedule should be similar. I take mine out together and they almost always both go right away. Walking them together is fine because I taught them both good leash manners. The only annoyance is that instead of one dog barking at the doorbell, I have two... but I can live with that.


Oh gawd, the barking. I hate that. For some reason when you have multiple dogs their barking just automatically gets worse! I used to hang out at my friend's place a lot, and we'd have 3 dogs running around all the time... Every single time ONE of them heard a sound at the door all THREE would run there and bark their heads off. Cadence never barked at the door before he hung out with those other dogs, but now he does. -__- Sigh. I don't know how to get him to stop. It's so ANNOYING! He barks when the neighbours come home, when someone opens their gate, some one reverses their car out of the driveway, etc.



Laurelin said:


> I like the sire a lot better.
> 
> I'm sure part of my issue with the dam is there's no real stacked shot of her and the one that is there where you can see her legs and feet, she's not groomed. I can't stand hairy legs on them. Color and markings really have no affect on quality (okay the whole blaze thing is a big debate). The dark sables are really prominent in a lot of the european lines I've noticed. They can look really good.
> 
> I don't like the dam's rear very much from what I can see. Her topline appears to slop up. The tail is not very fringed and seems a bit loose. A lot of it is just coat, I know she's only 1 in the pics and not groomed up as nicely as the sire. Her coat is really all over the place in those pics so I can't see much at all. Her front looks east/west from that pic but again it's hard to judge based on that pic. The sire is hard to see since there's no shot of him to the side but I like him overall. He's a lot more typey imo. My only dislike is his eyes seem a touch close together but that could well just be the angle of the pics.
> 
> Honestly going to 3 dogs is where the big jump is. One to two will be fine.


Lol, I love hairy dogs for some reason! I think it's because Cadence has NONE! Haha, I barely have to trim his feet ever.  Plus I am now resigned to the fact that he's NEVER growing any fringe.

But thanks for the comments. See, i don't even know what "loose" means, LOL. I can tell if a dog has a really bad or good topline, and in paps, I can tell nice ears from bad ears but that's about it. Oh, I love giant blazes too, but sometimes no blaze makes Paps look really interesting IMO. Rose is one of them. I think if I'd never seen a picture of Rose and then saw her at a dogpark or something, I might not recognize "hey Papillon!" right away because she looks so different from most Paps.

Hey, I found more pics of Ccino (the sire):









As a puppy.









I think he's pretty young here too.
ETA: On 2nd thought... those were probably taken on the same day..


----------



## Laurelin

Ooh I like the sire! He's a puppy so a lot of the 'issues' I see at this age are common in pups his age and most grow out of them. 

He's a bit short in the leg here, but that's common in young papillons as they go through various uglies lol. His muzzle is also a bit long and skull is flat but that's another thing that usually goes out and comes back together. I will say judging by his older pics he's probably still a touch too long in the nose but it's not a big thing at all.

Have you read this: http://www.judgesl.com/Papillon/index.html

and this: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/versatility.htm (bottom section)

Those are good quick reads that can help looking at basic conformation imo.

Also there's those pages Cran posted a while back that are good reads.


----------



## Crantastic

That would be these pages right here.  I love that whole book, though; it's awesome. I'm still tempted to order a copy.


----------



## Laurelin

Me too!!!!


----------



## lucidity

Ooooo I like those links, especially the ones with pictures! Whenever I read words I don't get it but if there's pictures to go along with the words everything makes so much more sense.

There goes my plan to go to bed, lol. It's 2am here already!


----------



## Crantastic

It's a big hardcover book, and it has those pages... I don't know what they're called, but they're kind of transparent so you can overlay them on other pages and it helps illustrate proper structure and everything. There are tons of drawings of papillons with slight differences in earset or eye shape or whatever, plus photographs of nice examples of paps and phalenes.

(I promise I don't get a cut of any profits from the sale of the book, haha. I just really want a copy!)


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I was going to say I like the sire a lot better too. The dam's tail is just really bugging me like crazy. It's not at a very good angle and it looks very loose and just ick!

The sire I like though! He reminds me a little of Nia in his head shape but Nia's muzzle isn't nearly as long. He has a nice abrupt stop and has good bone. Overall very nice. I like his topline too. In the last puppy picture his tail looks a little too well arched and a little too tight but it doesn't bother me that much. Much much better than the dam's tail. He has great ears and is generally very pretty. I think I do see the short on leg part a bit too, even in the adult photo but it's very minor and he's pretty balanced overall.

What color are you expecting lucidity? Are you going with Mondelise then?


----------



## lucidity

I see... thanks! I can't find any pictures of the dam stacked. 

Actually, this litter will be a Calpap litter (the dam belongs to Calpap). I haven't talked about colours with them yet, but I suspect that the litter will be tris and sables. 

I will be going with them if I make up my mind 100% about wanting a new dog, lol. They don't let their pups go until about 5 months old because they are all spayed/neutered before going to their new homes so I won't have my new pup till maybe May or June.


----------



## calpapmom11

I need some grooming help, papillon owners. I'm at my wit's end with Calvin's fur and don't know what I'm doing wrong. He just keeps getting full of knots and tangles, some of which I am having to cut out of him. I comb him daily trying to keep on top of it, but with the dry, cold weather, I think the static is making a mess of things. His tail is the worst.

I give him a bath every 2 or 3 weeks with Vellus shampoo (which I do really like), no conditioner. I use the Vellus Static Spray when I comb him and use a wide metal dog comb. Should I use a conditioner? Any other products you recommend? I've never had a dog with long hair before. This one isn't going to have much long hair left at this rate. Thanks for your help!

PS My calpap is for Calvin and papillon. Weird that it is same name as litter you are looking at, Lucidity.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Using conditioner is very very important. Without conditioner Nia's coat will probably tangle as well. I'm using Vellus as well, just get their show conditioner and leave it on for about a minute. It makes her nice and silky and shiney.

If his hair is still too dry and brittle after using the conditioner, get the Vellus Satin cream and apply to his furnishings such as his tail, the fur on his bum and maybe the bottom of the coat where it touches the ground and gets wet when it rains. A lot of show breeders use it when the weather isn't as good and the dogs' hair is drying out.

I just use water as a spray with a few drops of conditioner in the bottle to spray her before I brush and I haven't had any problems with tangling at all. I do have problems with static electricity though.

Also try using a pin brush not a metal dog comb because I find the metal dog comb breaks the fine hair quite easily.


----------



## calpapmom11

Thank you, thank you! I will get those products and hopefully he won't look so gnarly!!


----------



## lucidity

Lol, hey, yeah, that's true! I will have to ask the Calpap lady how they got their name 

Anyway, yes, conditioner is really important! It makes a huggggee difference I find. You can use the spray conditioner every couple of days to get on top of the frizziness. Most people find that feeding fish oil also helps with coat somewhat.


----------



## calpapmom11

I did add salmon oil to his diet (I think you may have suggested that) and I think it made a big difference in how thick his coat is. Now it's just unmanagable! I ordered the conditioner and some of the Vellus satin cream stuff too. Hopefully it arrives soon and we can start working on the frizzies!


----------



## ashes2fury

Oh my goodness!! So many paps and so little time!! I just joined the site and will now have to go through this entire thread. Here is a picture of my little guy...Fury.


----------



## Laurelin

Congrats on your new puppy! I wish I had a baby papillon right now. You're in for a good time.


----------



## Laurelin

Bumpy!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Mia's fringes are really long now! She's looking really really good recently! 

One sad pupper thrown in for good measure


----------



## barnetto

Sad pupper is cute ^_^

I don't think I've posted this one of Pepin yet:



















Simone was spared the indignity because the boyfriend thought the Christmas tree outfit looked like a dress and he doesn't think dogs should wear dresses. :crazy:


----------



## Shaina

I keep saying there are a lot of papillons around me...well here's just from agility practice this morning..12 dogs total...

(forgive the blur -- building is set up horribly for photography...all natural light coming in from behind the dogs...)

#1


















#2


















#3...wait a second, that's not a papillon...how did he get in here...(someone grabbed my camera lol)









#3 (for real)









#4









#5









...For the dead of winter, there's an awful lot of butterflies floating about...


----------



## lucidity

Love the pics!! Paps always look so cute doing agility, lol.


----------



## Sibe

lucidity said:


> Love the pics!! Paps always look so cute *all the time*, lol.


fixed it


----------



## AussieNerdQueen

Hi! I wanted to joi this thread...Do you take newcomers? (cowers)

On Christmas day I got to meet my cousins Papillion (and learned it was pronounced papyon..not pap ill yon..Whoops!) and she was the sweetest most gentle dog but with so much ATTITUDE! My mother, me and even my grinchy brother fell in love and we got the name of her breeder so we're contacting her soon. It's funny cause I was always a bit judgmental of the breed but once I met a well bred one they were exactly what my family has been looking for in a dog!

Now, I'm going to be a lazy bum and go read through this thread to see more of your gorgeous spunky dogs.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Those agility pictures are gorgeous! I love it!


----------



## genblack3

I'm new to this site, and a new (proud) Papillon owner! I always wanted one, and finally convinced my husband to get one, after a tragic accident with our 3 year old Boxer. =( 

We got "Foxy Roxy" (yes, I let the children name her) as an early Christmas present, on the 23rd. She is 7 1/2 months old and beautiful! Here she is:


----------



## AussieNerdQueen

Foxy Roxy is very cute!!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Foxy Roxy is a doll!

I got 2 pics of Pappy feet today. 



















They smell a little sweaty and stinky  I actually think they smell pretty good :redface:


----------



## genblack3

I have a question for you ladies......judging by Foxy Roxy's pictures above, would you say she is a tri? The brown you see on her face is all she has. Her body has no brown, all black & white.


----------



## lucidity

Roxy's a classic tri.  Black & whites only have those colours (Black + white) and no brown at all.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Add 2 pictures 



















Ok I lied, 3 pictures. Poor Nia has such a short coat  Grow grow grow!! I think Mia has a longer coat than Nia now~


----------



## Crantastic

I think her coat is great, actually! I like that length.

Crystal's breeder has bought a new pup! She's arriving on PEI in early January and I get to meet her shortly after she gets here. I'm excited; I love pups. I'll take pictures.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

That's wonderful news! Whos the pup out of? What lines is she? I can't wait for pictures! I'm feeling giddy from excitement already and the pup isn't even mine!


----------



## Crantastic

She's a Nicomen pup, actually, out of a bitch Jody bred (Classy -- Dexter's sister) and a sire named Jammer (I don't remember his registered name, but I looked at the puppy's pedigree last time I was a Jody's, and it was very nice). Jody's always so careful about the dogs she chooses. The pup's name is Paige. I'm excited to meet her!


----------



## Laurelin

Hi to the newcomers! Been out of town lately! 

Loving all the new pics!


----------



## wishiwas

Hello everyone. I've been enjoying looking at all the adorable pictures, and thought I'd add in a couple of my new boy, Smokie.  He's 9 months.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

He's gorgeous! Reminds me of Nia's daddy


----------



## Laurelin

Oh man, I really love him! He's handsome!


----------



## wishiwas

Thanks.


----------



## Nargle

Welcome! Smokey is ADORABLE!! 

Here's a random picture of sleepy Basil... :biggrin1:


----------



## Laurelin

Awwwwww  They're so cute and innocent when they're asleep.


----------



## Nargle

Lol, funny story...

I was in the living room and my boyfriend was grating cheese in the kitchen (Making a pizza, yay!) and Basil was sitting outside of the kitchen waiting for cheese. In the corner of my eye, I see something that looks like a giant butterfly flapping its wings, and I look over and see Basil rapidly turning his ears backwards and forwards. He looked like a butterfly flapping its wings! Now what's that about? LOL! It was pretty adorable! Not sure why he was doing that, though...


----------



## lucidity

Haha, that's hilarious! Cadence does that all the time too. I still have no idea why he does that, but when he feels like it he keeps flapping his ears. Weird dogs.


----------



## Independent George

Laurelin said:


> Awwwwww  They're so cute and innocent when they're asleep.


I know; it almost makes you believe you can trust them


----------



## yappypappymom

Too funny about the "ear flapping" LOL...Leif could flap his all day long, &,...he would likely look a candidate for the vets office the net day for an ear infection, but...if Laik goes flapping hers, I think either A) - shes about to take flight, or B) - shes communicating w/ NASA by using her "cones" to recieve classified information.


----------



## PappyMom

A couple of Roxy from my blackberry yesterday while we were waiting for my sister in the parking lot..


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow Roxy's looking so pretty and grown up! She's growing fringe too


----------



## Aussie27

I've only spent an hour or so looking at pictures, and oh my goodness, all the Papillons are adorable!  I actually talked to my mom, and guess what? We're getting a Pap puppy in the summer (hopefully) and I contacted three breeders this morning. So, you guys will soon be spammed with Papillon puppy cuteness.


----------



## Crantastic

Who did you contact besides Jody?

Edit: Speaking of Jody, she e-mailed me a couple days ago to say that about two minutes after she'd put new puppy Paige in the 18" x-pen, Paige had climbed out. It only took her about six minutes to get out of the 30" tall x-pen. I told Jody that soon, her other troublemaker, Candy, was going to teach Paige how to jump from the floor onto the kitchen counters like she does. 

I'll be going to visit again soon, and I'll get pictures!


----------



## Aussie27

I've contacted Inge Lehnehert, from Silverwings Kennel (I guess I missed her on the website) and I contacted Karen McPhee (Diamond Sun Kennels) aswell as Juanita McLeod (Fantasy Papillons).  It appears that the NB breeder has a couple of litters planned, so I asked about those when I contacted her.  What do you think of her?


----------



## Laurelin

Congrats! I don't know those breeders but I am so jealous! I keep being tormented by Mia's relatives. I want more.


----------



## Crantastic

I don't know the Silverwings woman (we may have met but we haven't really talked), so I have no opinion there. Karen of Diamondsun is a nice person. Her papillons are sweet but very different in looks from Jody's. You need to decide what "type" you want, really. I've posted pics of some of them in this thread... back here and here. The other paps in those pics are from good NS breeders (Ruffcut and Maribeso). 

I'm not going to comment on the Fantasy lady.


----------



## Aussie27

I really like the look of the longer muzzles, and the slightly "leggier" ones. I'm going to assume that I should stay away from the woman at Fantasy Papillons? I think I'll look at Ruffcut though, they seem to have the "type" that I'm looking for.  I've never been to NS, so it'd be an excuse.


----------



## Crantastic

NS is a lovely province. Maribeso is in Halifax, so check them out, too. They are very nice ladies and they have some pretty dogs (I love Gabe, who I posted in one of those pic posts I linked). As for Ruffcut, I love Stryker... Jody has used him before, too. He's a gorgeous dog.

Laurelin, clear out your PM inbox?


----------



## Aussie27

I actually did look at Maribeso earlier, but I wasn't sure if they were still breeding for some reason. I just sent them an e-mail though, and their dogs look wonderful! (their Pharaoh Hound is quite the looker aswell) I don't think they've updated their site in awhile, but I found their blog and saw a handsome boy who is exactly what I'm looking for in a Papillon. 

So fingers crossed I hear back from them!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I just wanted to say I've never heard of fantasy but silverwing ad diamondsun breeds great dogs that have great temperaments. Will talk more when I get home from work.


----------



## Laurelin

Ooops. PM box is now cleaned out.


----------



## Aussie27

I think I'll be going with Silverwings, she says she is expecting a litter around the 10th of March, so I asked about being put on a waiting list.  The parents are gorgeous, I _love_ their heads and body structure overall. The father is actually a Slovakia import while the mother is a homebred champion. I've read that the parents' colouring has no effect on the pups, but Iris is a sable (I believe, maybe dark sable?) and Yorick is a hound sable.. I think. 

http://www.silverwingskennel.com/welcome.htm

The pairing is the second listed. 

ETA:

What do the following titles mean?

SCH,NCH,INTCH,JCH 

The titles would belong to the puppy's great great great grandmother. 

ETA #2:

What do you think of the mother's pedigree?

http://www.silverwingskennel.com/ped_iris.htm

I find it a little funny that the great grandmother has the same name as me, just with a different spelling. 

ETA #3:

Guess who's on a waiting list?  Pups will be born in March, and they'll be able to be brought home in May. <3 So, we're hoping for a female.. and my mom is completely against a sable.. but as long as it's a female, we should be bringing her home.  This is going to be the first pairing of these two dogs, so I'm anxious to see how the puppies turn out. I've looked at their litters (with differents dams/sires) and there was a mix of sables/blacks.


----------



## Laurelin

Aussie27 said:


> I think I'll be going with Silverwings, she says she is expecting a litter around the 10th of March, so I asked about being put on a waiting list.  The parents are gorgeous, I _love_ their heads and body structure overall. The father is actually a Slovakia import while the mother is a homebred champion. I've read that the parents' colouring has no effect on the pups, but Iris is a sable (I believe, maybe dark sable?) and Yorick is a hound sable.. I think.


Parents coloring does matter but it's quite complicated in how it's all inherited (http://www.letitpapillons.com/info/colors/genetics.htm). You will never get all papillon people to agree on what color some dogs are lol. Both Iris and Yorick look like sables to me. Hound tricolor is like my Mia. They'll either have a widow's peak type marking (tan face and black on the top/back of the head) or solid brown head and then solid black patching on the body. 

Here's another, lighter hound: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/monkeyped.htm



> http://www.silverwingskennel.com/welcome.htm
> 
> The pairing is the second listed.
> 
> ETA:
> 
> What do the following titles mean?
> 
> SCH,NCH,INTCH,JCH


I'm going to guess Swedish Ch, Norwegian Ch, International Ch, and Japanese Ch. All those are big papillon countries.



> ETA #2:
> 
> What do you think of the mother's pedigree?
> 
> http://www.silverwingskennel.com/ped_iris.htm


I would ask the Canadians. I'm unfamiliar with the kennels up there really. I recognize Ringlands (in England) but that's about it. 




> Guess who's on a waiting list?  Pups will be born in March, and they'll be able to be brought home in May. <3 So, we're hoping for a female.. and my mom is completely against a sable.. but as long as it's a female, we should be bringing her home.  This is going to be the first pairing of these two dogs, so I'm anxious to see how the puppies turn out. I've looked at their litters (with differents dams/sires) and there was a mix of sables/blacks.


I would bet on sables considering both parents are sables.  I love sables though. I like tricolors best but I guarantee in the end color won't matter at all.  I was secretly thrilled Mia was a tricolor though. All my others are sables.


----------



## Pynzie

Aussie, what ever happened to the dalmatian? Did you guys change your mind?


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## Aussie27

Well, my mom changed her mind. I'm definitely hoping to get a Dalmatian at one point.. but it's just going to have to wait. Speaking of my mom, she hasn't stopped talking about the puppy for an hour.. and she wants to name it Marshmallow, my sister wants to name it Cookie and my dad... hahaha. xD That's why I get to name her.


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## Crantastic

The Costalina papillons are lovely. As I mentioned, Jody has used Diablo de Costalina (Stryker) before -- he's co-owned by Diamondsun and Ruffcut. I'm not familiar with the other breeders in the mom's pedigree (besides Diamondsun, of course).

I hope your mom doesn't change her mind about the papillon. Also, I hope she decides she likes sables, because the pups from that litter are likely to be sables. (Crystal is technically a sable, btw. She has a bit of black on her ears and tail and a few black hairs in her body spots.)


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## Laurelin

Sable is just a catchall for dogs with black and brown hairs interspersed in their coats. Tricolors will have distinct, solid black areas on them.

This is a sable (clear red)



This is a sable (red masked)



Michiyo's Nia is yet another shade of sable. (I'm not sure how I'd classify her though. Maybe just plain sable? She's not really red imo)










In fact look here:

http://www.letitpapillons.com/info/colors/sable.htm

Sable can be anything from lemon with a few black hairs in the coat to a dog that looks black.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I like the mom. Bandit de Costalina is a beautiful beautiful dog. He has good lines and turned out beautifully.

I've liked all the DiamondSun dogs I've met as well. A breeder around here has a few and they are good dogs.

As far as Silverwings go, I've seen a few dogs produced by them and they looked great. The only thing I'm concerned about is that they do breed quite a lot of dogs before they have any titles. I can see from the planned breedings, 2 out of 3 breedings is on untitled dogs. They are a show kennel and I would prefer to see a few more titles on their dogs because they have been breeding for quite a few years, there's no reason to breed that many dogs without showing them or finishing them. However, I do know them all that well, I've never talked to them personally and perhaps they have reasons for not showing as much from lack of time to lack of resources. I highly recommend going down to the kennel and meeting their dogs and see if they have the personality you like.

As for color, I had wanted a hound tri, regular tri or red and white Pap but what do you know? I ended up with a sable lol. Once you see the pups, color would be the least of your worries. They'll all be so cute that you'll love all of them. At least that's what happened with me!

Edit: Maribeso is one of my favorite kennels in Canada. They breed some amazing dogs with very good structure and good amount of bone. 

Also, are you looking for a pet pup or show pup? I think for a pet pup, personality is important above everything else like the pedigree and such, health is very important too.


----------



## Crantastic

Most of the pets around here seem to be sables. There's such a wide variety in sables, though, that I can't see how anyone could dislike sables in general!

I also prefer to see only champion x champion breedings. 

Also, Aussie27, have you met any papillons before? I definitely think you should drop by one of the kennels and visit some dogs, or go to a show and meet some -- there's a show in Halifax next month, a couple more in NS after that, and then Moncton in early May.

Michiyo-Fir, you need to clean out your PM box, too!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Cleaned out! Sorry! We should be allowed to have more msgs in our inbox! 

I don't mind Ch. to not titled dog breeding either provided health tests are done and they have nice stable temperaments. I'm not sure why silverwings has a few breedings of 2 untitled dogs though.


----------



## PappyMom

Help meeee, guys! LOL, It's that time of the year again, where I get papillon puppy fever. I need to see pics of Pap puppies before I die! And with the thought of getting my own place with my boyfriend, now..I am browsing through breeders!! oh my gosh, this is trouble!!


----------



## Nargle

Okay, Pap people, I have a question about tri-colors and hound-tris. Do they all have tan inside of the ears? It seems to me that most sables with a lot of black, (think Nia, Rose, even Basil to an extent) have a lot of black inside of their ears, but tri-colors just have tan in their ears? No black? Is this the case?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Depends on the dog. Some Tris I've seen have black on the inside of the ears. Some have a bit of tan with some black. I don't think I've seen many with only tan inside their ears.

edit: I love looked through the 3 local breeders' dogs and most of them have black on the inside of their ears.

Edit2: I just checked Nia's ears and the inside are mostly all brown/tan/red except for at the top where it connects to the tip of her ears.

Example









You can see the inside pretty well here


----------



## lucidity

Most of the Classic Tris I've seen have tan inside their ears.. Cadence's entire ear is tan; the skin that is. The hairs are usually a mix of tan and black.


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## Aussie27

Yes, I figure that when we see the pups, my mom won't care one bit about the colour. I mean, she was oouing and awwing over sable pap pups on a breeder's site.. so it won't make a difference, I don't think. I'm not sure if I'd be able to go to a show though.. I could ask though. Probably the only way I could actually go to one is if we stopped by on our way to pick up the puppy or on our way back, we don't go to Moncton too often.

I, too, would normally want a Ch. x Ch. breeding, but since I'm only looking for a pet quality.. I'm not too concerned, especially considering the lines and the heath testing she does and such.

@Michiyo-Fir, I'm just looking for a pet quality female.


----------



## Laurelin

Nargle said:


> Okay, Pap people, I have a question about tri-colors and hound-tris. Do they all have tan inside of the ears? It seems to me that most sables with a lot of black, (think Nia, Rose, even Basil to an extent) have a lot of black inside of their ears, but tri-colors just have tan in their ears? No black? Is this the case?


Almost all hound tris will have tan ears I'm 99.9% sure. But other tris may have black or tan ears. Minimal tricolors often have black ears, but it seems most traditional tricolors have tan ears too.

The easiest way to decide tricolor v sable is to look at the patches on the body. All tricolors have solid black areas on them (the amount of solid black depends on hound, traditional, or minimal) whereas even the dark sables will have brown undertones in the coat everywhere. (unless the dog is a light hound tri with no body patches, then it can be impossible to tell the difference!)

Also there's dogs like Okarina on this page:

http://www.braylorspapillons.com/colors.htm

They are hard to tell exactly WHAT they are. Okarina has solid black patching but her head looks just like a sable. I am honestly not sure what I'd call her color-wise! I have seen some very well respected breeders disagree on labeling certain dogs either tri or sable. Especially with the hound tricolors, there's so much variation. For example...I always thought mia's sire was a very very light hound tri with no body patching since he had tan points as a puppy but he's labelled as a sable by the breeder. Who knows though, he's from a clear sable x clear sable breeding so he probably just is a sable that's marked similarly to hound tris (he's got tan ears and a very very light widow's peak). I don't know if you can get a hound from two sables. Mia's dam was a hound tri and she was from a traditional tricolor x hound tricolor breeding. Mia is very clearly a tricolor though.

Also to be confusing, hound tri is sometimes called saddled sable in other breeds. It's essentially blanketed/saddled black and tan coloration. Aka creeping tan. There is no standardized term for it across breeds.


----------



## lucidity

Okarina has a very unusual colour I agree! But I would call her a hound tri too.. it looks like she has masking on her face, like Rose, so that makes it harder to tell that she's a tri..


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## Laurelin

Yesh, she's masked which is why her ears and face are black. But she still has very dark tan for a tri either way. I would label her a tri just because she genetically has to be if she has real black patching. That's not possible on a true sable.


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## Nargle

Tri-colors and hound-tris can have black masking? I did not know that! If that's the case, would it be possible for a classic tri with very faint tan points and masking to look like a black and white? Or maybe even have white markings that cover up the would-be visible tan points?? Lol, that would be pretty strange!


----------



## Laurelin

Yep! There's one tri called 'minimal tri' too that can look b/w but be tricolor. 

Bottom of this page: http://www.letitpapillons.com/info/colors/tricolor.htm


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## PappyMom

Some more of Roxy's parents!! I'm keeping in touch with her breeders!









Roxy's mom, Zoey.









Roxy's dad, Romo.









And just a cute pic of the two of them resting. They're so adorable.

They're moving away to California in two weeks though! I know their probably very busy but I'm trying to get together with them before they leave!


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## Laurelin

I really like the dad from what I can tell. He has a pretty little face. 

I'm dying for another from Mia's breeder but I know it's not going to happen now and might not for another 6-8 years if I end up going with a different breed for the next dog! Honestly the thought of another papillon that is similar to Mia is enough to make me reconsider switching breeds.

ETA: While we're at it, do you guys ever get strange questions about your dogs' ears? I get some hilarious ones... 

Did you crop their ears?

How did you make their ears so big?


----------



## Crantastic

Wicket would be a minimal tri, wouldn't he?










He just has those little tan patches on his cheeks. He's a Ruffcut dog... just adorable. It'll be neat to see him when he's older and has more coat.


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## Nargle

Laurelin said:


> ETA: While we're at it, do you guys ever get strange questions about your dogs' ears? I get some hilarious ones...
> 
> Did you crop their ears?
> 
> How did you make their ears so big?


A young lady asked me this on a walk with a completely straight face, totally serious: "Is he a fox?" I couldn't help but laugh. :biggrin1:

Also I've had people ask "He's a little dog, he's vicious, isn't he? I don't like little dogs."

Not really Papillon related, but I've had people ask this:

"WHOA, how did you train him to bark so quietly??" ...

"I bet he has Separation Anxiety because you cuddle him and dote on him too much, don't you?" This I honestly took offense to. Seems as though sometimes people think I'm an idiot when I tell them my dog has SA and suggest that it's an actual serious affliction.


----------



## PappyMom

I always got asked seriously if Gizmo was a fox...lol.. I totally know what you mean about it being impossible to not laugh..

Suprisingly, lately, everyone know exactly what Roxy is. I don't hear 'What a cute chihuahua!' anymore, all I ever hear is 'Aww, I love papillons, they're so beautiful!'..Which I like and dislike. I don't think I want the breed to get TOO popular..if you guys know what I mean.

One question I get about Roxy, and I ask myself is 'Why is she SO small?'...Everyooone asks it! I mean she is tiny. Her parents aren't even that tiny. I have no idea why she just stopped growing. I really don't mind, she's perfectly healthy an smart as a whip..but still! What happened!? lol!!


----------



## Crantastic

PappyMom said:


> Suprisingly, lately, everyone know exactly what Roxy is. I don't hear 'What a cute chihuahua!' anymore, all I ever hear is 'Aww, I love papillons, they're so beautiful!'..Which I like and dislike. I don't think I want the breed to get TOO popular..if you guys know what I mean.


I know exactly what you mean. They seem to have gotten more popular even in the past couple of years. When I first got Crystal, hardly anyone knew what she was. Now I meet quite a few people who know she's a papillon. Most of the breeders around here are great, though; I never see paps in shelters or rescue here. I've seen them at the pet store once, but they weren't guaranteed pure and looked more like chihuahuas to me (and they cost over $1200... may even have been $1400. Crazy!). 

Casper gets the fox thing a lot, but Crystal never has. She's been mistaken for a shih tzu and a border collie. And a cat.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I've seen 3 Paps in the pet shops around here in the last yr. All of them were AKC papered. However, I looked at their pedigrees and didn't recognize any of the dogs, or kennels. Pet shops here sell puppies of any breed for $2000-2500 and people always buy them. 

Most people (at least dog people) know that Nia is a Pap around here now as well. 

I've never gotten the fox/cat/border collie?!?!?! question yet.


----------



## Nargle

People used to ask me all the time if Basil was a Cavalier Kind Charles Spaniel or CKCS/JRT mix. I guess the colors are the same... lol! I think it's a little odd, though, that so many people thought he was a CKCS, but I thought they were less commonly known than Papillons? Is this not the case? At least I would expect people to guess something a little more common like JRT or giant Chihuahua or something, lol!

I've actually not had too many strange breed guesses for Basil, though. Most people don't even ask what he is. And those that do typically ask if he's a "Puh-pill-leon..." Lol!

And I have had quite a few people with obvious Pomeranian mixes claim that Basil must be the same breed as their dog... :biggrin1:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I'm not sure about America but in the UK every single person knows what a Cavalier is. Cavs are always in the top 10 or even top 5 most owned dogs in the UK every year. Whenever we walk our dogs there we are bound to always see 1 - 3 Cavs, not including our own. I've only seen 2 Paps the entire time I've spent in the UK over the years.

I think it's also because Basil is Cavalier sized. If they see the right size and right color they think Cav. Plus Basil's muzzle is sort of like a badly bred Cav's because it's quite thick.


----------



## lucidity

Oh, Cavaliers are SO popular around the world, really. On my recent trip to Australia last month, I saw at least 20 Cavaliers. Most people had multiple Cavaliers, not just one!

And Cadence recently got called a fox. -__- That was a first. Usually we just get long haired Chihuahua or something.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm pretty sure cavs are more common here too. I did a meet the breed with Summer once and got asked about 1000 times if she was a Cavalier or if the breeds were related (which they are.) I think Cavs are one of the most common breeds in the world. And yes, they're ALL over Europe. Everywhere I turned there was a Cavalier.

I've also been asked about my mini border collie and mini collie many times. (Toy Sheltie once too) I get shih tzu a lot and that one I just don't understand at ALL! They look nothing like shih tzus. Pekignese is another I don't get...

And yeah the chihuahua and pomeranian of course. It's about 50/50 nowadays. A lot of people don't guess but most guess either papillon (pap-ill-leon usually), chihuahua, or pomeranian.


----------



## Nargle

Wow, I had no idea that Cavs were so common in your areas! I rarely ever see them around here. I've actually seen more Paps than CKCSs.


----------



## Laurelin

My pretty girl. She's 21 months old, can you believe it?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

She's looking great! She's really filling out! She has a great topline too! What a gorgeous dog! All grown up!


----------



## Crantastic

I haven't been to visit Jody (Crystal's breeder) and meet Paige yet, but she has posted some pics of the pup online. Here she is:





































Her dam is one of Jody's dogs and her sire is a Caprice dog. She's so cute... and look at that nice structure. I can't wait to actually play with her!


----------



## Laurelin

Ack! I want a puppy! My 'puppy' is going to turn two soon!
\

time by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## barnetto

I love pap puppy tails. They're so skinny. Even though they don't understand, I like to tease Pepin and Simone that they weren't always beautiful, they used to have rat tails and no hair.

Paige is adorable!


----------



## Pai

Drive-by advertising: I found this site that sells custom shirts and such of various cartoon breeds, and they have the option for pretty much every single type of Pap coloring under the sun. I figured some folks with mismarks/rare colors might be interested if they wanted a shirt with their Pap on it.

Drive-by over; carry on!


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## Laurelin

Omg those are so cute! Mia is totally a hound tri 2. I want one. 


eyes by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Growed up 









I miss puppy playfulness.


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## Laurelin

She has a fabulous tail!


----------



## Terrie

Laurelin said:


> Omg those are so cute! Mia is totally a hound tri 2. I want one.
> 
> 
> eyes by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


Love her muzzle! Lexi has no fur on hers, look like a rat, lol.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Terrie said:


> Love her muzzle! Lexi has no fur on hers, look like a rat, lol.


But rats have furry little noses!


----------



## Terrie

Michiyo-Fir said:


> But rats have furry little noses!


Lol, I need to get a good picture to show what I mean.


----------



## Crantastic

I finally went to visit Crystal's breeder today and meet little Paige. She is adorable, and she loves people -- she just wants to jump and climb on everyone and lick them and wag her tail. She was so happy to have visitors!

Mom took this photo of Paige:










And I took the rest of these. 



















Paige likes to chew, obviously! 

Papillon pack:



















Dipper, Crystal's brother:










Vixen, Crystal's grandmother:










Crazy Candy (who is due to have pups in March):










Still my favorite papillon I've met (aside from Crystal), Dexter:










He's gorgeous. His brown spots are more copper, really... just incredibly vibrant. His fringe looks kind of stringy right now because there's bitter apple spray in it to keep Paige from eating it, haha. 

The breeder may try to put an international championship on Dexter this year. I think he'll get it.

Here he is in the bottom right corner, with Mitzy, Candy and Vixen behind him: 










I love all of these dogs. They're so much fun to visit (and so is their owner -- she's full of great stories and advice). It was a good day!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

In the pap pack photos, who's the dog closest to us? I love his/her muzzle!


----------



## Crantastic

That's Mitzy, a Nicomen dog.


----------



## lucidity

She is absolutely ADORABLE!!! Not helping my puppy fever at ALL. Lol. I was just going to ask about Crystal's brother because wow, they really look alike!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh that's Mitzy? I always thought she she had more ticking on her body that that...I really love Dipper and Candy too, they're both so gorgeous and I love their rich red color.

Edit: How old is Vixen? She looks great


----------



## Crantastic

Most of Mitzy's ticking is on her legs. You can see it a bit better in this old picture my mom took.

Vixen is 11, I believe. She's an older lady and isn't into chasing the ball with the others, but she runs over quickly and speaks on command when she wants a cookie!


----------



## lucidity

Does this dog look 100% Pap to you guys?


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

I love watching this thread. I haven't posted in a while because we've been so busy with life, but we *may* be adding two more paps to our family. I met with a foster mom that has brothers for adoption. My grandma is applying for one, and my parents are thinking about applying for the other. 
I didn't get any good pics today, but here are their petfinder pages. We are all so excited for the prospect of our "papillon family" growing. Fingers crossed that everything works out!!

The one my parents are thinking about to adopt:

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/18585216


The one my grandma is applying for:

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/18585230


----------



## Laurelin

Ahh that's so exciting! There's something about Papillons that makes it hard to just have one or two of them.


----------



## Laurelin

Shameless bump.


----------



## Aussie27

You guys have about eight or nine weeks before this thread is flooded with Papillon puppy pictures.


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## Independent George

Aussie27 said:


> You guys have about eight or nine weeks before this thread is flooded with Papillon puppy pictures.


Is that a promise? You damned well better come through for us!


----------



## Aussie27

Yep.  The litter was born yesterday, and I'll be picking out my girl once she gets pictures.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

One picture from today


DSC_4301_1 by blahbloo, on Flickr


I lied, one more from Valentine's Day


DSC_4159_1 by blahbloo, on Flickr


----------



## ksymonds84

I promise to add pictures of Oreo soon. My avatar is when he was 6 weeks old still with the breeder, he is double that size now! My daughter will come home from college next week and help me take pics and show me how to add to my posts (I'm a dinosaur with the computer!)


----------



## Laurelin

I definitely want Oreo pics! Is he a black and white? I've ALWAYS wanted a black and white but have never been able to find one. (My breeders both have mostly tris and sables)


----------



## ksymonds84

Laurelin said:


> I definitely want Oreo pics! Is he a black and white? I've ALWAYS wanted a black and white but have never been able to find one. (My breeders both have mostly tris and sables)


Yep he is all black and white like his momma Myah. He has a lot of white so my hubby says he's a double stuffed Oreo! His dad Emo is a sable.


----------



## Laurelin

You definitely need to post pics then soon!


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## Aussie27

This is the little girlie that you guys are gonna see grow up. <3 I'm naming her Shay now, I changed my mind on Cali.  I was actually researching her family tree and her uncle is at Maribeso Papillons.  SO EXCITED!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oo so adorable! I wonder what color she's gonna be? So exciting!


----------



## Aussie27

That's what I'm wondering.  I think she'll end up being a dark sable.. but I know her dad has produced a tri girl before (the mom was a sable as well). Plus, I know Shay's grandfather (Bandit de Costalina) had hound tri puppies and stuff. But I don't know much about Papillon coat genetics.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia's granddaddy is a de Costalina dog as well. I actually really liked Bandit de Costalina. He was gooorgeous.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm going to bet on sable. She looks about the same color Beau did at the hamster age lol.


----------



## Aussie27

Who is Nia's grandfather?  I think it's really neat looking through all the lines and I think it's even more interesting when you find a dog closely related to yours. I know that Maribeso has a few Silverwings Papillons and one is Shay's uncle (Gryphyn) and I think there's another one that's a "half aunt".

I'm hoping that if she does turn out sable, which is highly likely, that she'll end up with more dark pigmentation as opposed to light.  I'm going to order her a really cute blue collar, I think.. though I probably won't order the collar/leash/harness until it gets a little closer. I'll probably be ordering toys etc. in a week or so.  We don't need to buy a crate either, as we already have one for cats (that Kumah can easily fit in.. which means the puppy will have a decent sized crate). 

What do tris look like in the "hamster" stage?


----------



## Laurelin

Well Mia looked pretty much the same too. Really unless the dog is a true red and white or lemon they tend to look black and white at birth. Even Summer was pretty dark at birth. 

I really like dark sables but I have to say I have a newfound love for light sables recently. Not sure what it is, they've always not been a favorite of mine. It may just be bias though LOL. I love my little gold girl.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia's grandfather is Diablo de Costalina but he really wasn't related to your dog's Bandit de Costalina. Just from the same kennel.

Here's his page
http://www.diamondsunkennel.com/dike.html

I really really love light or deeply red sables like Nard or Summer. I actually really like Nard and Beau's coloring. I actually wasn't fond of dark sables at all, I really didn't like them but look what I ended up with. LOL. The color is really growing on me.

I need a hound tri like Mia though. There was only one in the 3 litters that Nia's breeder had the whole year and she was reserved by a show breeder before she was even born (they wanted a girl, she was the only girl in that litter). 

I can't wait to see your little girl grow up!

Edit: By the way, I just checked the pictures of the other pups in that litter, that is one well marked litter! Looks like everyone's gonna end up with at least some blaze if not a moderately big one.


----------



## Nargle

Since I haven't posted in this thread for a while, anybody want to judge Basil's conformation according to the breed standard? I'm pretty well aware that he's nowhere near show quality, lol! But I don't quite know the Papillon breed standard yet and I'm always happy to learn! I think being able to see the difference between proper and improper will help me learn, because right now all I can tell are there are a lot of very pretty Papillons out there! :biggrin1:


















Just pretend he's not 15 inches tall, LOL!


----------



## Aussie27

Diablo de Costalina is a stunner!  His granddaughter is no exception.  I adore Nia. 

And yeah, they all have blazes.  I liked Cali (well, Unique for now.. until I tell Inge that I'm naming her Cali) mainly because her blaze didn't go all the way to her back.. since I was kind of hoping for there to be a girl with no blaze anyways.  Plus she looks a lot darker than her siblings at the moment, I mainly compared the colouring to the picture of Uranus because the lighting is similar. She's probably going to look a lot like Iris, I'd say.. but I couldn't argue if she looked like her dad.  I think Ustin will too, as far as I can see, he doesn't have any markings on his body. 

I'm actually hoping to convince my mom to drive me there so we can visit, and we could see about buying supplies locally instead of online.. which would probably be cheaper.  It'd probably be best to go when they are 5 or 6 weeks old.. that way I could get tonnes of pictures!


----------



## Laurelin

Be afraid, be very afraid.



Nargle, well he's obviously oversized LOL. But he's not put together badly at all. Something about his front is a bit off, I'm not sure what it is. Something in the shoulder seems too long to me? I would like a bit more coat and a more refined head too. Shorter muzzle and more refined stop. Ear set and shape is good but size could be bigger in proportion to him. I like his tail set actually much better than my show dog!

As far as coloring goes, I adore hound tris. I want another hound so bad.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Lol! Laur, how the heck do you not get tangled into a big blog of leashes and dogs when they are walked??

I can't even seem to get 3 dogs under control when I walk multiple dogs. Even 2 seems like hard work for me!


----------



## Laurelin

Oh we can't WALK all 5 at once. LOL! It takes multiple people to walk all five without tangling. We just stopped for a picture. 

The most I can walk by myself is three so far. Two preferably.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I always wonder how dog walkers do it actually. Truffles' old dog walker used to walk 3 labs + her or 4 labs by himself...twice a day. He never had any problems with tangling and he doesn't use those connector leashes either. How do they do it? Must be magic


----------



## Nargle

Laurelin said:


> Nargle, well he's obviously oversized LOL. But he's not put together badly at all. Something about his front is a bit off, I'm not sure what it is. Something in the shoulder seems too long to me? I would like a bit more coat and a more refined head too. Shorter muzzle and more refined stop. Ear set and shape is good but size could be bigger in proportion to him. I like his tail set actually much better than my show dog!


Thank you very much for the critique, Laurelin! I can definitely see what you mean about his coat and head. When I look at his front, I think it looks to me like he has a really long neck? I'm not sure if that's what it is. That might be caused by him trying to get a good look at the squirrel outside of the window, though. I had to catch a candid free-stack because if I try to stack him myself apparently his legs go really straight and he stands on his toes, lol! I had no idea that he has a nice tail set, though! I've read that it's supposed to look like a handle on a teacup, which I guess it kinda does look like that! :biggrin1:

Aussie27, congrats on the new pup! She looks absolutely precious! Can't wait to see her grow up! I hope she ends up darker sable, it's definitely my preference. BTW, I don't think this forum can go long before we are watching another pappy puppy grow up, lol!


----------



## ksymonds84

I posted these already but wanted to here as well










Oreo 12 weeks








playing with my Granddog Charlie









Snuggling with mom and dad


----------



## Laurelin

Sooo cute! He's really adorable!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

So petit!!! eeeek so cute!


----------



## ksymonds84

Michiyo-Fir said:


> So petit!!! eeeek so cute!


The vet told me yesterday that he will probably be 5 or 6 pounds at the most full grown. His mom was 5 pounds at her last check up and dad is 6 pounds. My smallest sheltie was 28 lbs so this is a new experience for me!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Mine is 6.5 lbs full grown. She's pretty small too, just never really grew. Her breeder told me she was supposed to be about 8 lbs but I guess not!


----------



## Laurelin

Derp.


----------



## Aussie27

Here's Cali at two weeks old!  She still looks black, but the three other puppies (all of which now have homes!) are now visibly sable/dark sable. I think it might just be the lighting though.


----------



## ksymonds84

Cali is so sweet bet you just can't wait to get her home!


----------



## PappyMom

Gahhh. You are all making me want to go out and get another Papillon puppy. Roxy turned two years old today. Oh gosh. =P


----------



## wishiwas

So many cute pictures.  Here's a couple new ones of Smokie. I didn't realize just how much his coat has grown until I looked back at the last pictures I posted.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh my god I love him! He has really big ears even for a Pap lol.


----------



## Papilove

Batty's a year old now! Wow how time flies! She's still the love of my life, and makes me laugh daily. 








Pic is from last month. I can't seem to get the one I took the other day to come through from my phone. If it ever arrives from cyber space,I'll post it.

PS-she had a LOT more feathering on her ears when she was younger. Anyone else have that happen where they seem to loose a lot of it at around eight or nine months? Does it come back? I do pet her head a lot though, maybe I'm rubbing them too much.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Yay!!! Batty pics! Haven't seen pics of her in agggges!!

Nia's fringes decreases and increases depending on how much she's played with other dogs, how much I've been combing them, how much rain and mud there is on the ground (because she drags her fringes through it), etc. etc. so sometimes fringes grow or break and it gets longer or shorter.

We need more Batty pics btw! It's been way too long!


----------



## Papilove

Aw, hi M, I'd take more pics but I'm not photographically talented the way you and Laurelin and others on here are. The above pic is close to as good as it gets, and since she's usually glued to my side, it's kind of hard to get a good shot of her. LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Haha, my trick is to throw something so that Nia's far away and then quickly take the pics


----------



## Papilove

It finally came through, lol. See, not much different.










I'll have to try that, she loves to fetch, so maybe I can get something that way, it will be a lot to ask of my old point and shoot though, haha.

Still my favorite picture of her:










She still does that with her bowl, by the way. Every morning its a hunt to find it, because she carries it around at various times during the day like she's starving.


----------



## Laurelin

Smokie is gorgeous!

I cannot believe that Batty is a year old already! How is that possible (I guess the same way that my puppy is now 2 years old!)

Fringe around here goes in cycles it seems. Summer's fringe is pretty scarce at the moment and my bet is that the tricolor dog did it. 

My favorite pappy-pic of the day:










And a Rose.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Omg I love the Rose! I need a Rose  She's always so adorable! And she doesn't have that evil look about her eyes lol.


Here's a new running pic of Nia for those of you that haven't seen it yet.

DSC_4527_1 by blahbloo, on Flickr

Here's Nia stacked for the first time

DSC_4610_1 by blahbloo, on Flickr


----------



## cynster

I -finally- have a nice camera


----------



## Nargle

Laurelin said:


> My favorite pappy-pic of the day:


I'm so imagining her spinning the ball on her paw as if it was a basketball, lol!


----------



## Aussie27

Cosette is so adorable! 

Cali is going to be four weeks old this week! I believe there'll be a new picture up on Wednesday, or maybe Thursday, for me to share.


----------



## cynster

Aussie27 said:


> Cosette is so adorable!
> 
> Cali is going to be four weeks old this week! I believe there'll be a new picture up on Wednesday, or maybe Thursday, for me to share.


Thank you! Yes please keep posting pictures!!! It is so amazing how much they change in just a week when they are little like that


----------



## Charis

cynster said:


> I -finally- have a nice camera


I want! :biggrin1:


----------



## Papilove

Well, this cell phone (new) takes even crappier pictures than my old cell phone (too much of a haze), but I did manage to get some pictures of Batty that aren't laying by my side:

The ball mom, the ball









Yes, i know it used to be a stuffed toy: I unstuffed it. It doesn't matter you bought me three new ones, I like THIS one









Here, you forgot how to play, I'll bring it closer for you... come on, grab on









Okay, I'll pose, if you insist









I'd much rather play ball though









PS-All the little bits of paper everywhere are from HER. I can't vacuum often enough. I don't know where she finds it all, but the minute I clean it up, she has little bits of paper torn apart again. (and never mind if she gets anywhere near you with the toilet paper)


----------



## cynster

omg she acts just like my dog it's scary!! I too have bits of paper and toys scattered across the floor.


----------



## Papilove

I think it's a pappy thing. LOL


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I think so too. The first thing I do when I get home everyday is find all the paper bits all over the floor and clean them up lol. I purposely give Nia paper to tear though, otherwise she chews through my walls, carpets and cables.


----------



## calpapmom11

I love this thread and looking at pictures of everyone's beautiful paps! I've only ever seen one other papillon around where I live so it's nice to see and hear about them. This is Calvin all growed up! He is now a year and a half and very difficult to photograph (well, I'm a terrible photographer too). I have to sneak up on him to get a picture.


----------



## PappyMom

Awweeee, look at my little Batty! I can't believe she is a year old! I remember us sitting around in anticipation for you to bring her home! lol!

And Cosette is gorgeous! And oh gosh, Calvin! And Smokie!! Ahhh. I need another Papillon!

I don't have too great of pics right now, buttt here's a start..









And I really wanted to show you guys this. Those of you that know Roxy, know that she was incredible skittish around other dogs, especially large dogs. My boyfriend has a shepherd mix (with terrier, I think), and he's a big guy. But check out who is now the best of friends..
















And, I figured I'd share Tucker's face...Can you guys maybe guess why there's a slight attraction there? (I'm curious to your opinions...I'm all EARS.. =P)









Andddd helloooo:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

He's gorgeous! I love the shepherd mix <3 

Nia loves big dogs she knows too  I'm glad to see pics of Roxy! You don't come around here nearly as often anymore!


----------



## PappyMom

I know! I am trying to be more active on here again! Life has gotten me sidetracked, and I'm about to go back to school, but I'm trying not to get too sidetracked from my little Roxy. Can you believe she turned 2 years old on the 1st? It's craziness. How's miss Nia?


----------



## lucidity

Hey! It looks like Roxy's fur got a whole lot thicker! How's Gizmo doing? I miss seeing photos of him...

Gah, tell me about the getting sidetracked thing. Been working 10-11 hour days now and I just simply have no time to do ANYTHING anymore. It's sad


----------



## PappyMom

I don't speak with my ex, so I'm not sure how Giz is doing. I know my ex has a new fiance and sent me an email a while back telling me that he was thinking about giving Giz away. I didn't write back because I don't know if it's just a con to get me to talk to him again or not. I miss my G so much and I really wish I had my own place, cause I'd take him back in a heartbeat. 

Roxy's fur is getting thicker..her tails getting more feathery and her fringe is getting longer. She's developing, just imo slower than every other papillon in the world..lol. More people are now asking if she's a papillon, rather than a chihuahua, so I take that as a compliment! But regardless of how 'papillon' she looks....she's such a lovely dog, everyone who meets her falls in love instantly. She's 3 lbs of sweetheart. =]

How's Cadence doing!? He's one of my favorite boys!! Gosh, he'll be 2 soon too!


----------



## cynster

PappyMom said:


>


How cute!! All snuggled up!


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> I don't speak with my ex, so I'm not sure how Giz is doing. I know my ex has a new fiance and sent me an email a while back telling me that he was thinking about giving Giz away. I didn't write back because I don't know if it's just a con to get me to talk to him again or not. I miss my G so much and I really wish I had my own place, cause I'd take him back in a heartbeat.
> 
> Roxy's fur is getting thicker..her tails getting more feathery and her fringe is getting longer. She's developing, just imo slower than every other papillon in the world..lol. More people are now asking if she's a papillon, rather than a chihuahua, so I take that as a compliment! But regardless of how 'papillon' she looks....she's such a lovely dog, everyone who meets her falls in love instantly. She's 3 lbs of sweetheart. =]
> 
> How's Cadence doing!? He's one of my favorite boys!! Gosh, he'll be 2 soon too!


Aww, poor Gizmo. I sure miss that little guy! Good to hear that Roxy is finally looking more like a Papillon!! Haha, I know how irritating it is when people think your dog's a Chihuahua.. sigh.

Cadence is doing good! Skinnier than ever now. Must be the weather--it makes him lose his appetite. Yes, I REALLY CANNOT believe he's going to be 2 soon! Gosh time flies so quickly!


----------



## Aussie27

Here's Cali at four weeks.  I wish Inge was a little more photographically talented though, haha.  We'll have plenty of pictures when she's home though.  Do you guys think she's gonna be a black and white, or a dark sable with fewer red hairs?


----------



## Laurelin

I'm LOVING all these pictures! All sooo cute! So god to see some of these guys again!

to me Cali looks b/w. My sables had all started changing color by 4 weeks.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I agree that Cali looks Black and white. She's a doll!

Btw Laur, I LOOOOVE that picture of Rose in your sig!


----------



## Laurelin

Haha yes. Rose doesn't really 'do' agility but she sure poses pretty!


----------



## Aussie27

I heard back from Inge, and she says that Cali looks like she's gonna be a tri-colour.  I guess I got super lucky with her colour, though I'd love her just as much with a sable coat.  We get to pick her up on the weekend of May 14th.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Gah I want a tricolored puppy!!! I was praying so had for a tricolor when I got Nia but the only tri boy that her breeder had during that time was very shy so I passed on him.


----------



## Crantastic

Tris are my favorite, too, but my mom insisted I should get Crystal because we had the same color hair.  (She was also the only adult available, and a good match for me in temperament and exercise needs, so it worked out well.) I'll have a tri someday!


----------



## Laurelin

Tris are definitely my favorites but I might be a little bit biased. Maybe.


----------



## barnetto

> PS-All the little bits of paper everywhere are from HER. I can't vacuum often enough. I don't know where she finds it all, but the minute I clean it up, she has little bits of paper torn apart again. (and never mind if she gets anywhere near you with the toilet paper)


I know where our shredded bits of paper came from...that wallpaper in the kitchen has been stripped all the way to my waist high (not that I'm that tall, just 5'1"). Good thing the boyfriend hated that wallpaper.

Love seeing all the new pics. I haven't been around much.

Simone came up lame (at just a year old >_<) and it looks like its a grade 3 patellar luxation, and the xray showed a 2ish in the other knee. We've got a consultation on Tuesday for her knee surgery (one knee or two? dunno at this point what is better). I've been scouring the web and dogforums for other people's experiences with the surgery.

So...planning on new pics of my own soon. They will be shaved legged Simone. She's been in bed the past couple hours and Pepin occasionally goes over and starts licking her head. He's figured out that attacking her and trying to play right now is a bad idea.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

barnetto said:


> Simone came up lame (at just a year old >_<) and it looks like its a grade 3 patellar luxation, and the xray showed a 2ish in the other knee. We've got a consultation on Tuesday for her knee surgery (one knee or two? dunno at this point what is better). I've been scouring the web and dogforums for other people's experiences with the surgery.


Oh no! Poor girl! How did you discover she had luxating patellars? What kind of symptoms were there?

I'm so sorry to hear about that...I really hope she gets through surgery with flying colors and feel better with her legs after!


----------



## lucidity

Yikes, sorry to hear about Simone!  A grade 3 can certainly feel disheartening. Wishing her luck on the surgery! My neighbour's Chihuahua had a grade 3 too, and it took him a while to recover from the surgery, but he seems to be in a lot less pain now... he did put on a lot of weight after the surgery though, because he wasn't allowed to exercise as much. Something to have in mind!


----------



## DogsBeDogs

Beautiful. There is a Papillon in Keke's agility class, he is black and white. His name is Kitt. I myself am not a small dog person, as in I don't own small dogs...but those are some pretty pups!


----------



## barnetto

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Oh no! Poor girl! How did you discover she had luxating patellars? What kind of symptoms were there?!


The vet did an X-ray. She stopped walking on that leg on Wednesday. She hates jumping up on things and always had brief moments where she would skip a step or stand with the leg up, but it always passed pretty quickly. It was a pretty sudden shift to not walking at all. The vet noted she had loose knee caps when she was a puppy, but we kind of hoped she'd grow out of it.



> he did put on a lot of weight after the surgery though, because he wasn't allowed to exercise as much. Something to have in mind


Thanks for the advice. I'll keep it in mind. My boyfriend would probably be happy if she put on a little weight. She's all skin and bones as is. She eats more than her brother, but she doesn't seem to put on weight.


----------



## cynster

Another picture of Cosette


----------



## Crantastic

Cosette has a "fox tail" like Crystal -- red, then black band, then white. Cute. 

Edit: I can't find a good pic of Crystal's tail, but you can kind of see in this one:


----------



## cynster

haha yeah you're right!


----------



## Aussie27

I love all the new pictures! 

Barnetto, I'm sorry about Simone. Hopefully she can be back to normal as soon as possible. 

I have a question relating to colour, is there a way to tell whether a tri will become a hound tri, or a classic tri? Or is it just a waiting game?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Crantastic said:


> Cosette has a "fox tail" like Crystal -- red, then black band, then white. Cute.


Nia has it too! *points to siggy*



Aussie27 said:


> I love all the new pictures!
> 
> Barnetto, I'm sorry about Simone. Hopefully she can be back to normal as soon as possible.
> 
> I have a question relating to colour, is there a way to tell whether a tri will become a hound tri, or a classic tri? Or is it just a waiting game?


Um sometimes you can tell because their tan patches become a lot bigger than tricolors and fast. Most of the time by 6-7 weeks you can tell because the tan patches have spread or connected between the cheeks and eyes.


----------



## Laurelin

Mia is a very dark hound tri and by the time I brought her home (14 weeks) she was already obviously not a traditional tricolor. It was a subtle difference...

Mia at about 14 weeks (hound tricolor)










And Hiro at about 13? weeks. (traditional tricolor)










I still tear up looking at him. I miss that little guy so much .

anyways, the biggest difference you can see is above the eyes. Hiro had tan dots above his eyes and Mia's tan points had already started running together. By about 6/7 months she had a full tan face:










And her at two years old, even more tan:










Nard has a fox tail too.


----------



## mydoghailey

Love the new photo of Cosette!

They're all soo cute! I want one!


----------



## calpapmom11

I was surprised by how much Calvin's face changed. The first picture was taken when we first brought him home at 14 weeks. The second picture was recently taken at age one and a half. It was a pretty gradual process and I didn't notice it until he was about 8 or 9 months old and was looking at puppy pictures. Sorry about the size difference in the pictures. I couldn't figure out how to fix it...


----------



## cynster

More pictures of Cosette  We went playing at the playground and walking correctly. I brought -tons- of treats and we both had a blast. She enjoys hopping up onto steps and then hopping off (I hopped with her to make it fun). My friend convinced me to take her to obedience and agility classes. Obedience since we've been working on that since she got home, and agility just since she is a Papillon and my friend knows a lot of Papillon agility dogs. 






EDIT: One of my pictures was -huge- just replaced it with a smaller one


----------



## Laurelin

She is so cute! I love her face and she does the happy teeth like Mia does (when she smiles you can see her back molars too. Kinda makes her look crazy lol)

Agility is SO fun and addicting! And paps are typically really good at it. They're fast little dogs and built very nicely for it. Mia is so much fun to run and it's hilarious watching the other peoples' faces. She's usually the smallest dog in class and also usually the fastest and most driven. People start out going 'Oh look at the cute little fluffy dog!' then are really surprised at how intense she is when she's running.


----------



## cynster

Haha yeah normally she doesn't do that because she is very happy to sleep most of the day  But when she learns things she loves it and really gets into it. It looks like you have tons of fun with your dogs doing agility  You and your dogs are really inspiring to me  I hope you either get your camera fixed or get a new one soon  Your pictures are so great!


----------



## barnetto

Home and recovering.




























The stitches are on the inner edge of the leg, so you can't see much.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I'm glad she got through surgery well!! I hope she has a fast and painless recovery and then has full use of her legs!

I always feel like Papillons are one of the breeds that absolutely love to run, at least mine does. I would feel so terrible for Nia if she lost the ability to run because it seems like that's one of her greatest joys in life.


----------



## cynster

barnetto said:


> Home and recovering.
> 
> The stitches are on the inner edge of the leg, so you can't see much.


Oh no! What happened?


----------



## barnetto

cynster said:


> Oh no! What happened?


Grade 3 luxating patella. Tuesday she was fine, Wednesday she wouldn't walk on it anymore. Vet said 90% of dogs do well with the surgery, so I've got my fingers crossed. I hope she'll be back to chasing her brother through the house again in 6 weeks.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia's tail has been getting really long recently that it's starting to drag on the ground in certain positions.


DSC_4685_1 by blahbloo, on Flickr

Did I hear you right?

DSC_4671_1 by blahbloo, on Flickr

Buddy buddies

DSC_4681_1 by blahbloo, on Flickr


----------



## cynster

Nia is so pretty  I love her markings and fringe.


----------



## Crantastic

I haven't taken enough pics of Crystal lately! We went to the playground today and I brought my camera along. She wasn't into the idea of posing today. 




























When I set her down by the rope bridge, she thought I was going to make her walk on it and wasn't impressed!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

How do you keep Crystal's fringes so smooth and nice all the time??? I brush Nia's fringes every other day but they're always clumpy looking like 3 or 4 days after a bath.


----------



## Crantastic

She did just have a bath yesterday, haha... but her fringe does stay pretty nice for at least a couple weeks after a bath. I don't brush her ears very often, and I don't let anyone touch them. They'd look nicer and fuller if Casper would stop grabbing at the fringe!

Nia's looking nice. She's getting more and more coat all the time! Crystal's tail also touches the ground even when it's curled on her back.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia's fringe never looks as smooth and well spread out as Crystal's. I have no idea why. Even in the top pictures I posted, it looks a little stringy and clumpy that that was like 2 or 3 days after a bath..


----------



## cynster

When did your dogs start to get fringe on the ears?


----------



## Crantastic

I got Crystal when she was a year and three months old (on January 1st), and she looked like this:



















(The white blur in the second one is my cat ninja-leaping off the couch without Crystal noticing, haha.)

She had also just been spayed, which could have contributed to the lack of coat, but that's what her fringe looked like.

Here she was in late February at about a year and five months old:










And by June (she'd be one year and about nine months here):










At just over two years old:










Hope that helps a bit.


----------



## cynster

Yes that helps a ton!!! I was wondering if Cosette was just going to be a Papillon with less coat or if she still needed to mature into it  I kept seeing the ear fringe differences and taking double looks lol


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia had a little bit of fringe (little fuzz) at 5 months old. I didn't get her before that so I don't know about before. 










6.5 months old










10 months










1 yr old









And the most current one is the pic I posted a few days ago. She's currently 2 yrs and almost 5 months old. Nia doesn't really have a lot of fringe at all though. I've seen some dogs with much better fringing. Hers are kind of thin and not very full.


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## proudmama

Yes I think My Kylie produces a good amount of Body color. I recently had another litter this time i was really fortunate to beable to use a Champion Braylor Stud. We have 2 puppies with a good amount of body color and 2 without. Here are picks of litter and one of the stud. CH. Braylor's Hevnsgate twist n shout..


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## proudmama

OOps the bottom row of dogs is Kylie's last litter PIC 1 MICKEY, PICK 2 ROMEO, PICK 3 AND 4 SKYLER...


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## Laurelin

Who is Twister out of? Just curious, my girl is from Braylors. 

Loving the hound tris!


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## proudmama

Now that i think about it. Might be getting some of that gorgous color off of this litter from twister...I think you may be happy to find out who twisters sire is Laurelin.....check out his pedigree off of my site
http://cajunheritagepapillons.com/y...ocs/twister_pedigree.38123401twister pedigree

we are super excited about this litter. ( the coowner of Kylie and I that is) Hopefully we both will get our first show prospects...

Laurelin, and anyone interested if you are on facebook please join my facebook group. Its just a group to show off pap picks and Laurelin i have a friend in Maine who I think you and her would bond . 
She owns my skyler and has 10 paps.... all pets of course
https://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_170947976250420&ap=1


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## Laurelin

Ooh yes, JoJo! I love JoJo!  Mia is out of Flash, so I guess they're not really that related. They're gorgeous puppies though!

From the other thread and brought over:



> I am at the same point wondering whether or not I will spay Cosette, because I'd like to show her (and I'll find out the end of this month if the minimal blaze will be a problem).
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know you were interested in showing Cosette. I know Cran and I both have some experience showing.
> 
> Do you have some good pics of her? How old is she?
> 
> Based on what I've seen I'd be concerned about lack of coat and fringe. Yes, it could be a growth thing but part of it is also color, the light red dogs just don't get the fringe other colors have. I forget how old Cosette is but I would expect to see the startings of fringe coming in by now at least. Here's Mia at 8 months:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> By 10 months we were really seeing thick fringe:
> 
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> 
> I can't find pics of the others at the moment.
> 
> My male (who is an AKC champion) has single fringe instead of the desired double fringe and it really really hurt him in the ring. He still finished within 5 weeks but there are judges who see little amounts of fringing and that's that. You won't place.
> 
> You will not get far without _any_ fringe unless you hurry and try to finish her as a puppy. If she has some fringe though you can accentuate it with grooming and do all you can to grow it out. With Beau his fringe was cleaned daily, no touching allowed! Combed through and coat supplements + raw diet seemed to help. And honestly we had to use a snood much of the time. If you don't the fringe can get caught or oily and break. If you have a dog like my Beau that doesn't have all that much to start with, you need every little strand you can get.
> 
> Beau after rigorous fringe growing:
> 
> 
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> 
> of course beau went through this phase, so there is hope! lol
> 
> 
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> 
> Unfortunately I have had one dog with very little coat (Summer) and she did not get coat OR fringe till after she was spayed. Spaying usually helps that out but of course it means you can't show them.
Click to expand...


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## cynster

She is beginning to get some strings of fringe but not much at all. Not close to what Mia's was and she's the same age. Let me get a picture.

EDIT: Here are some pictures


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## Laurelin

She has back dewclaws? Those will have to be removed if you want to show, they're not allowed by the breed standard and would get her disqualified. It's actually really unusual to see them in papillons. Most are born without them.

Did her breeder show? A good way to estimate fringe, etc is by looking at the lines. Some lines just don't have the coat.

What we did with Beau was have a few handlers and breeders evaluate him. It's hard to tell from pictures and I'm _far_ from an expert but my first impression is that she's a bit straight in the rear and she seems a bit short in the back.

Here's a nice, quick read for papillon conformation: http://www.judgesl.com/Papillon/index.html


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## cynster

The breeders did not show, but their dogs were bred from Papillons with champion titles, from what I was told. I don't think she'd lie to me about it (because she is a very sweet lady) - but I don't really know how they did. Thanks for telling me about the dewclaws. 

We are going to go to one of the all breed shows at the end of may (not enter, but get some opinions) - At first I was very sure I wanted to show her, but the combination of the lack of fringe, lack of coat, lack of blaze, and I'm pretty sure she has a slight arch in her back... I loved showing, just walking the dog in the ring - but I don't want to be embarrassed by it, and apparently in our area the owners are very competitive and will talk about a dog right in front of the owners while the owner is showing (which I didn't think was allowed in the first place) - but that's just what my friend who shows told me.

She also suggested Cosette get into obedience, and I was thinking the good citizen program too.. That may be enough on our plates. Anyway, I don't want to spay her and find out she is a nice looking dog when she gets older - so I think I will probably wait until she's 1.5 - 2 years and if she's just pet quality that is fine  and it'll make me feel better about breast cancer too. Our beautiful JRT who was 4th in nationals has horrible breast cancer at the end of her life now - and the vet can't do anything for her  I wouldn't want Cosette to go through that.


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## Laurelin

cynster said:


> The breeders did not show, but their dogs were bred from Papillons with champion titles, from what I was told. I don't think she'd lie to me about it (because she is a very sweet lady) - but I don't really know how they did. Thanks for telling me about the dewclaws.
> 
> We are going to go to one of the all breed shows at the end of may (not enter, but get some opinions) - At first I was very sure I wanted to show her, but the combination of the lack of fringe, lack of coat, lack of blaze, and I'm pretty sure she has a slight arch in her back... I loved showing, just walking the dog in the ring - but I don't want to be embarrassed by it, and apparently in our area the owners are very competitive and will talk about a dog right in front of the owners while the owner is showing (which I didn't think was allowed in the first place) - but that's just what my friend who shows told me.
> 
> She also suggested Cosette get into obedience, and I was thinking the good citizen program too.. That may be enough on our plates. Anyway, I don't want to spay her and find out she is a nice looking dog when she gets older - so I think I will probably wait until she's 1.5 - 2 years and if she's just pet quality that is fine  and it'll make me feel better about breast cancer too. Our beautiful JRT who was 4th in nationals has horrible breast cancer at the end of her life now - and the vet can't do anything for her  I wouldn't want Cosette to go through that.


Do you have a pedigree or any names? There's a great papillon pedigree website where you can track pretty much any titled papillons (and some not). If you wanted to pm me any details I could look and see what lines she has. I'm fairly familiar with the lines or I could ask around. 

One thing to be wary about is if someone tells you their dogs are 'champion lined' it can mean literally anything. Their dogs could be very high quality or the champions could be very far back in the pedigree. 

Yeah the rear dews have to be removed to show. I've heard of it happening but neither of my mentors have had it happen where a pap is born with rear dews. I even heard of one pap born with double dews to a breeder. Front dewclaws can be removed or they can be left. I prefer that they're left on, but it doesn't matter.

You could also look into UKC showing too. I hear it's a lot more laid back and all. It might be more fun. Depending on your area, the papillon ring can be quite rough and competitive. Around here they are some of the largest rings in the shows. 

And agility and obedience are fantastic things to do with papillons! I vote agility though. 

3 out of 5 of mine are definite pet quality. It's okay, we still love them.  

Anyways, she's definitely papillon looking and has some really nice points, but I'm not sure she would be finishable around here in AKC. I think waiting for her to mature is a great idea, a lot of the dog will come back together after they really mature. I hope I am coming across okay. I'd be more than happy to also point out all the faults in my dogs as well too and what makes them all pet quality versus show quality. Cosette's a pretty little thing and I actually like the lesser coat but it just doesn't show well typically.

More conformation stuff at the bottom of this page: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/versatility.htm

Here's the pap pedigree site: http://www.papillonpedigrees.org/

If you have any names you can just plug them in and see what comes up.

ETA: I realized I don't even know if you're in the US. lol


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## cynster

Wow Laurelin thank you so much for all of the helpful tips!! Her sire is Furey-US Monarche Papillon Petit Morceau (that's a mouthful!) and her Dam is Copper's Honey Penny - I tried looking them both up but I haven't seen anything. If you find someone out please let me know  I took the "champion lines" in stride. I've known some peculiar looking JRTs with "champion lines" lol And thank you for the tip about UKC - I will definitely look into it. I really appreciate all of your advice!


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## Aussie27

I'm not planning on showing Cali or anything (just some agility and obedience), but I find this whole conformation discussion pretty interesting.  Plus I love seeing pictures of Nia, Mia and Cosette and all the others. 

We're actually bringing Cali home next Sunday (after my horse show), so I'll be spamming the thread with puppy pictures pretty shortly.


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## cynster

Aussie27 said:


> I'm not planning on showing Cali or anything (just some agility and obedience), but I find this whole conformation discussion pretty interesting.  Plus I love seeing pictures of Nia, Mia and Cosette and all the others.
> 
> We're actually bringing Cali home next Sunday (after my horse show), so I'll be spamming the thread with puppy pictures pretty shortly.


 oooooh!! I can't wait!!!!


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## Laurelin

Hmmm I can't find anything either. I would honestly be suspicious if there were show lines back there. I am sure there are dogs that aren't added to that site (a few gens back on Summer's side is missing for example) but most are up there. I found the word Monarche a couple times but nothing else. I DID find this dog:

http://global.papillonpedigrees.org/cgi-bin/geneal.pl?op=tree&index=11324&gens=5&db=Papillon.dbw

Could be a relative? 

Typically if you want to show you should look for parents that are champions. Of course there's always risks. Mia was show quality when I bought her (but I bought her at pet price on a spay contract) but as she grew she ended up having bite problems that would make her be DQ'd.


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## cynster

Yeah - I took a look as soon as I registered her (I'm nosey lol) and I didn't see anything. I'm very surprised you found the one you did! To be honest I was looking more for a companion than a show dog, and as a puppy she did not look show quality like the other puppies... it's hard to describe. She looked like a sound Papillon, but she was missing something. As she grew, I felt she might have some potential and it was worth at least finding out. 

I did have a question for you - in case you knew, and since you show - My mom has fallen in love with Cosette but likes the ears of the Phalene better. When I've been looking for breeders of Phalenes, I haven't come up with much, and the problem is you don't know if the puppy is going to be a Phalene until the ears set. Well at least from pictures. Do you know anyone who specializes in breeding Phalenes? And if so because they are recessive, do they have a higher health risk because of possible inbreeding to keep the ears? My mom will most likely get a Papillon - because the temperament of Cosette is perfect for her (and Cosette isn't typical, I'm assuming, but at least the breeder I got her from has a chance of producing a very similar puppy). But I have been curious about the Phalenes 

EDIT: I got too curious lol - And I had every reason to be skeptical!! Cosette's great -great- grandparent is CH Karousel's Mark My Word - and that is her -only- champion line! xD

Two very distant relatives: 

















But that is all I could find.


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## Michiyo-Fir

To be honest there really aren't very many phalane breeders in north America. Most are in Europe ad I don't think I've heard of any that specialize in Phalenes. Nia's breeder had 2 Phalenes but she does not specialize in them at all. If you're really set on it, I recommend importing from Europe. 

I've been away in Orlando for the last week and a half and just got back. This recent topic is very interesting because I've always wondered if Nia could have finished her Ch. And I think she probably might have had a chance even with the faults she has like being long in body, butt high and her front is not very good.


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## cynster

Yeah I find the genetics interesting too  Well it turns out my parents just got a dog today! My sister's boyfriend's family had a dog they needed to rehome (for medical emergency reasons - I won't get into the details) and my parents offered to take him in. He is an extremely laid back long haired dachshund. It is a wonderful thing for socializing Cosette with a normal dog - and really it's her first chance to have a one on one encounter with a dog without some kind of behavioral issue lol. And they are becoming fast friends  I am going to have to take some pictures of them.


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## Aussie27

I wish the picture would show up bigger, but you can also see it at silverwingskennel.com if you'd like to see the full sized image.  This is her at six weeks, but due to computer issues, it didn't get up until now.  She's even cuter than I thought, and she's probably even cuter now.


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## Michiyo-Fir

It's very very strange that they're taping ears!! I've never seen another pap breeder that does that!


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## Aussie27

I haven't either, I had to google it and I found that, while rare, some breeders do tape the ears. She kind of looks like she'll be a hound tri, but that might just be me, hah.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Yeah I've heard of breeders that do it but never known or spoken with any. I prefer natural standing ears because otherwise the dog may have weaker ear leather but stood up with tape. Since ears are a large part of the breed standard I probably wouldn't tape Paps ears myself. Of course, I have no problems with people that do, I'm just surprised because I've never seen it done.

She Cali turns out to be a hound tri, I'm going to be SO SO SO jealous. My absolute favorite Pap color is hound tri! I also got a hound tri girl but she was bought into a local breeder's show home so I couldn't have her


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## Crantastic

I have seen it around here; some of the breeders will tape "weak" ears. I don't like it; papillons are supposed to have strong ear leather and natural prick ears.

One of the dogs I saw at a show last year should have been a phalene (its breeders told me) but they taped its ears, so it ended up with these kind of half-standing ears that I didn't like very much.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Silverwings apparently tapes all ears according to what I saw on their website. I don't know, most ears will stand by themselves anyways and I guess she wants to be extra careful.


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## Laurelin

I've never seen them taped either! Bernard had wishy-washy ears for the longest time. I wouldn't have even bothered at only 6 weeks. Many aren't fully up by then.

She's so cute! Definitely looks tri of some sort. Will be interesting to see her color as an adult!


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## proudmama

thought you guys might want to see some updated pics of the kylie -twister litter. I have one little boy that will be a very interesting color.


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## PomeranianLovers

PappyMom said:


> *Hey! I've noticed there are a tonnn of Pappy moms&dads on here, so I was hoping to make this thread dedicated to our very special furry butterfly breed. Please post pics of all your Paps and tell us what makes them so unique, so that my fiance and I (and my two little goobers) may go googoo over your babies!! *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *That's Gizmo, my one year old bubba boy. The absolute light of my life. When you go to pet him, he absolutely has a lickfest with your hand. He just loves to be loved..and even more to be pampered. He'll fall asleep getting combed, bathed, blow-dried, or his nails clipped..you'd think he was at a doggie day-spa.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *And that's my princess, Roxy. She's 9 weeks old, and we're still trying to figure out her quirks. She loves to cuddle..and can't sleep unless she's perfectly in the middle of my fiance and I. I need to take a better picture of her, but I just loveee her colors. Her half and half nose is adorable, and she has black spots on her back and tail base that if you move them upward, are brown underneath.. I can't wait to see what that may look like once she loses her puppy coat!*


Love the dogs. Wonderful and pretty dogs.


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## Crantastic

Paige got lost. 

Casper and my brother and I are going down to see Crystal's breeder and help her look for Paige. She's been out in the woods since last night; I hope she's okay. She's a very friendly pup and she's not afraid of other animals (there is a fox she plays with through the fence), so I worry. I know another pap who got lost for seven days in much deeper woods with scarier wildlife than we have here, though, so I'm hopeful.

Jody tried to take a papillon out into the woods to look for Paige today, but the brush was a bit too thick for her. Casper is bigger, and he's very alert and loves to track scents (although he hasn't been trained in it), so maybe he'll be at least a little help.

Here's a pic of Paige from when I first met her:










And "helping" me read a book:










Wish us luck.


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## Michiyo-Fir

I really hope you guys find her! Keeping her in my prayers.


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## Crantastic

We searched for four hours, in a big circle through fields and woods, with no luck.  Some other show handlers and breeders showed up to help, too (one with her dachshund). Jody had all the other papillons out in the yard barking, hoping Paige would hear them and come home. But Paige is very Mia-like in that she has an almost limitless amount of energy, and Jody figures she probably ran very far when she first got out and now is out of earshot and doesn't know how to get home (it also rained hard last night, washing away scents). We're hoping someone finds her, or that she follows the scent trails all of us would have made today with all our searching.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Oh no!! I'm praying really really hard that you guys find her!! If I lived near your area I would help look too!


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## Crantastic

Some kids found Paige today in a ditch, bug-bitten but fine!


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## Independent George

Crantastic said:


> Some kids found Paige today in a ditch, bug-bitten but fine!


Fantastic! I'm glad to know she's alright. I hope those kids have an ice cream cake coming their way...


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## Michiyo-Fir

Thank god she's alright! I was so worried for her!


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## Laurelin

Freestyle papillon!


DSC_0096 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_0101 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_0091 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

I actually carry Mia like this all the time. 


DSC_0104 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


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## Michiyo-Fir

Wow very cool! That dog looks a little like Mia actually O_O


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## Laurelin

she really does!

Mia's doing well. She's starting to really jump for tennis balls lately.










Her form is a little.... errr



awesome by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


miarun by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_0200 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


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## cynster

Laurelin, I wanted to let you know that you hit the nail on the head when you evaluated Cosette. I'm not going to name drop  but I happened to run into some very involved PCA exhibitors at a local show and they gave me their absolute honest opinion and had their handler look at her as well. The fringe would be a problem definitely, and her structure is slightly off. Oh, and her ears are too pointed. Plus - seeing actual show quality Papillons in person - there was a HUGE difference in personality and structure - I saw what -real- show quality Papillons look like, and I know for sure Cosette could never be show quality even if she grew out her hair - but she's still a sweety  Anyway I thought you'd like to know you were right on


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## Laurelin

That just means you need another, right?  Only thing better than one papillon is two papillons (or five)


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## cynster

Yep - And I will do a lot of in person research (aka going to shows and mingling and looking at the dogs and which ones I like) before I begin to shop lol. I want one a little more assertive than Cosette. She has the personality of a cat almost. But she doesn't bark, she's clean, and she's obedient and smart. Oh and low energy  Until I get a house, I think she'll be my only dog


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## Charis

cynster said:


> Yep - And I will do a lot of in person research (aka going to shows and mingling and looking at the dogs and which ones I like) before I begin to shop lol. I want one a little more assertive than Cosette. She has the personality of a cat almost. But she doesn't bark, she's clean, and she's obedient and smart. Oh and low energy  Until I get a house, I think she'll be my only dog


Cosette is a beautiful dog...even if she isn't meant for the show ring. 
You guys make me crazy - I've always wanted a pap (since childhood) and so I lurk on this thread admiring and doting on everyone else's. 

Do post more pics. I love looking at them!


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## Laurelin

Here's a couple recent shots:


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## Michiyo-Fir

I love Summer she cracks me up! The last picture lol.

Nia 

DSC_6325 copy2 by blahbloo, on Flickr


DSC_6317 copy by blahbloo, on Flickr


DSC_6219 copy by blahbloo, on Flickr


DSC_6204_087 copy by blahbloo, on Flickr

I'm going away in less than a week for 3 entire weeks! I wonder how I'm gonna get through 3 weeks without Nia!


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## Crantastic

Crystal:




























And a couple of dogs from the last show I attended: Jolie and Conan:










I didn't get any more pics at that show. It was pretty miserable -- it was an outdoor show and it kept raining, so the dogs were all wet, and I had Casper with me and Conan didn't like him and lunged when we got close, so I found it hard to get pics. Most of the papillon breeders skipped that show, too.


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## Crantastic

Went to a show today, and saw some familiar faces and some new ones (pic isn't great; the lighting in there sucks):










Xeko, Cupcake, Disco, Wicket, and Jolie.

I was tasked with tiring out Jolie, which proved impossible -- we walked and ran outside a bunch, but she still bounced around the x-pen all afternoon. 

Xeko was adorable and loved everyone, licking hands and faces and wanting to be patted.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Jolie and Wicket are so pretty! Exactly my type of Paps.


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## lucidity

Loving everyone's pics!! I feel like i've been gone way too long. Looking at all the show dogs makes me want another pap puppy!! Aaahh. Been having puppy fever really bad these days...


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## Cara

[/url][/IMG]

Hello!!

My name is Cara, I am spanish, and this is my papillon Yaki, a male. Sorry, I don´t Know speak english very well, jejejeje.
Do you speak spanish???


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## cynster

Un poco jeje - Me encanta tu perro - el es bello! Cuantos anos tiene?
A little hehe - I love your dog - he's pretty! How old is he?


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## Cara

He is 6 months.

Qué bien que alguien hable un poco de español!!








[/url][/IMG]


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## Daenerys

I suppose I'll add my boy to the mix 

Legend:



























Stare down with the kitty:









Several years ago:


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## PappyMom

I miss you guys! Popped on for a few to say hello.. =] I will post Roxy pics soon, I promise!! A lottt has been going on!


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## Questdriven

We think Treader's a Papillon mix:


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## nome

[Heya im new to the site ; I have one pap her name is nici (knee See) which means Victory in greek she is only 9 weeks at the moment i have pet sat a couple of papillion in the Past few years but haven't own one i was wondering if any one might beable to give me some pointers on potty training see-- we where doing fine for a bit but now she goes out sniffs sniffs sniffs but no poop then we bring her back in and right after she squats and does it on the floor or couch... she is corrected and told no and so on ... i need some pointers i was told that paps wheren't realy hard to potty train a indoor pan is out hubby wont have it  pic included ATTACH=CONFIG]27869[/ATTACH]


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## nome

Also i was told she is a white brown and black but I looked it up they have black body markings only. I think sable if anyone has any ideas please let me know


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## Michiyo-Fir

Nici is definitely sable. If she was a hound tricolor then she would have black body markings. Also her face is clearly sable. She may end up mostly red when she's fully grown but only time will tell.


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## Laurelin

MIAnewav by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


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## wishiwas

A couple new ones of Smokie.


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## Michiyo-Fir

Laurelin said:


> MIAnewav by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


You have snow already?!?! Wasn't it 100 just a few days ago where you live?!? Wow!

I wish we had snow! All we have is disgusting continuous rain until about march! I hope we get lots of snow this year!


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## lucidity

Is that snow?!! I assumed it was ... the sky. Or a wall.. hahaha


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## Michiyo-Fir

Oh you're right! I think it's the sky lol! Maybe that's how badly I want snow ahaha.


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## lucidity

LOL! Has it been really hot lately??

I miss snow 

Btw, I'm gonna send you a PM. Got some questions about breeders in the Vancouver area!


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## Nargle

I just ran out of Basil's shampoo and I'm considering getting a different brand. I remember a little while back in this thread you guys mentioned which shampoos you used, but this thread is like 81 pages long SOOO I don't think I'll go through every page looking for it, lol! So what shampoo do you recommend? Also do you guys use conditioner?


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## Michiyo-Fir

We use Vellus show conditioning shampoo and the show conditioning conditioner.

I think it smells really nice, plus since it's diluted 1 to 10 for the shampoo and 1 to 14 for the conditioner, a medium 32 oz bottle i think lasts us more than 2 years...We still have about 1/2 left and I've used these 2 bottles for a year and a half.

Edit: Nia's breeder's favorite is Biogroom.


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## lucidity

I definitely use conditioner! It makes a HUGEEE difference. I currently use Earthbath, which I like VERY much! I love the company that makes it. They are very environmentally friendly and the Earthbath shampoos are made from natural products.

I've used Biogroom before and it was pretty good. The smell was stronger and the shampoo was thicker than the Earthbath ones.


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## Laurelin

Oh yeah, NO snow here by a long shot!


2 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


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## Crantastic

The only shampoo and conditioner I've tried that I didn't like was Tropiclean. Crystal's breeder tried it and didn't like it, either -- our dogs' coats just didn't look as smooth and soft as usual with it. I had better results with cheap Wal-Mart stuff. I'll try anything as long as it's made for dogs and the shampoo and conditioner are separate, not a two-in-one (and I agree, you NEED conditioner). I think I'll try Earthbath next.


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## PappyMom

-swooning over Smokie- Don't be suprised if he turns up missing, wishiwas. =P hehehe.

Questdriven, I actually think Treader may just be pure pap, or atleast mostly pap...there's no denying the papillon in him though! Reminds me of my Gizmo when I had him. How much does he way? My Giz was 13-14 lbs.

And as for shampoo.. I use Isle of Dogs... you order it offline, and actually, if you sign up for it, they'll send you a bunch of free samples. I totally fell in love with them..Roxy comes out amazing after I bathe her with that...unfortunately we've had a bad bout of fleas this summer..I have been battling these little suckers for a while now..been soaking her in Dawn, spraying the yard, using topical treatment, spraying the carpets, vaccuming all the time..etc etc..lol I think the fleas are whats making her lose her fringe right now. =[

Laur, your bath pics always get me. I have enough trouble bathing one, and you bathe all 5 at once!!! Gosh!


----------



## Nargle

As far as conditioner, what do you think about the spray-in kind? Does it work well? Or is the kind you rinse off a lot better?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I've never used spray on conditioner with Nia, Truffles and Pop uses it and I find it doesn't condition well at all. It doesn't seem to do much.

I don't think I would ever use a spray on type for Nia, I love the rub in and rinse off kind just because it makes Nia feel cleaner. The leave in stuff is a little sticky and weird feeling plus the dogs will try to dry themselves off by rolling on the floor and I think that gets most of the leave in conditioner off. 

I always feel like the little residue left in a dog's coat, the better so I don't like leave in anything...


----------



## Nargle

Thanks guys! I think I'll try Biogroom next. There's a store nearby me that sells it and it seems reasonably priced. So far the only brands I've tried are, first, one of those Hartz brand ones from walmart which I didn't like at all, and second Tropiclean. Tropiclean was much much better than the other one. But a bottle of shampoo will last me like a year, and I've only had Basil for a little less than 2 and a half years, so I haven't had much time to try anything else, lol! :biggrin1:


----------



## lucidity

I dunno, the spray conditioner usually smells REALLY strong so I don't use it. I just use a regular conditioner on Cadence. I think the spray on also tends to weigh the coat down because of the oil...

LOL, I go through shampoo pretty quick!! Cadence is now on his 4th bottle of shampoo already, and he's only 2. I guess it says a lot about how often he gets himself coated in mud and dirt, lol. Oh, and covered in slobber from playing with other dogs. Eww.


----------



## Laurelin

Is it bad that I just use whatever shampoo. I don't think I've ever used the same one twice. And I never use conditioner.


----------



## wishiwas

My favorite shampoo so far is Coat Handler. I use both the clarifying shampoo and the leave-in conditioner. I dilute the shampoo more than it says to unless he's really dirty. The conditioner I don't use as a leave-in. I put it on straight instead of diluting it, let it sit for a couple minutes, and rinse out. The conditioner seems to help soothe his itchiness when his allergies are acting up.

I used Tropiclean for a little while and liked it too. But the CH leaves his coat looking nicer.


----------



## Laurelin

I wish I looked as good with my tongue sticking out:


tongue by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

I bet we could fit a few more, right?


w by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

He grew up so nice.


DSC_0129 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

And one of my sweetheart.


DSC_0154 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## PappyMom

Omg, love those pics, Laur!!! -swoons over Nard!- 
And that pic, you could definitely fit more! Roxy would love to join in, she'll sit right on her shoulder! Lol! she's always perched there anyway!


----------



## jkjata

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g365/jkjata/bethnCody10-11.jpg
I love this little Guy! My 6 mo old Cody


----------



## jkjata

Me and my hiking buddy!


----------



## Crantastic

I played with five papillon puppies yesterday, all little boys. They're currently six weeks old and adorable. Evaluation is in two weeks, and the breeder will be keeping one. I'm interested to see if it's one of my two picks!


----------



## Crantastic

Also, Candy and Dexter, action shot:










And the new girl, Lucky:










And a new one of Crystal's brother, Dipper:










Mom took all of these.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Cody is adorable!! Welcome to the Pap thread lol.

Omg babies! Love those pups! I love the tricolored little guy! Oh my god I would die to spend time with all those pups!


----------



## jkjata

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Cody is adorable!! Welcome to the Pap thread lol.
> 
> Omg babies! Love those pups! I love the tricolored little guy! Oh my god I would die to spend time with all those pups!


Thanks! He is my first papillon and definitely not going to be my last


----------



## PappyMom

Awwwww, Cody is SOSOSO cute. -swoons.- 
And all those Pappy puppies, you guys are killing me! It's that time of year where I have puppy fever!!

Here's a couple more recent Roxy shots...taken via my awful Crackberry...errr..I mean Blackberry.



















Nothing special, guess I need to have my normal camera readily available more often!
How is everyone doing??


----------



## lucidity

Where have you been Pappymom! We barely hear from you anymore 

Anyway, a couple of pictures of Cadence and his little sister Lyra:



















And Cadence getting his butt sniffed by Simon, who is Lyra's litter brother:


----------



## jkjata

awww thanks! she looks so adorable and sweet!


----------



## Avery

Hi, everyone. I'll be picking up my Papillon from the airport later this week. I'm practically vibrating with excitement. I've been browsing this thread and these dogs are gorgeous.

I have a couple pictures of the boy that's coming to me. The breeder took these, and they're not super great quality. 



















He's about 10 months old. These pictures might not be that recent, though.

His breeder calls him Mark, but we have a friend with that name, so we've got to come up with something else!
I'm leaning towards "Br'er/Brer" like the rabbit.


----------



## PappyMom

lucidity said:


> Where have you been Pappymom! We barely hear from you anymore
> 
> Anyway, a couple of pictures of Cadence and his little sister Lyra:


OMG, how cute is Cadence and his widdle sister? gosh, i'd take Cadence home any day...and Lyra has the CUTEST sad puppy face...she'd get anything she wanted here!!!

I miss you guys!! Life is so hectic and busy lately..I'm trying to make more time for myself to get on here, though!


----------



## Laurelin

Cadence is so pretty! Such clean markings!

Avery congrats on your new baby! He really reminds me of a much daintier Beau. He's gorgeous. Really pretty little face.


----------



## lucidity

PappyMom said:


> OMG, how cute is Cadence and his widdle sister? gosh, i'd take Cadence home any day...and Lyra has the CUTEST sad puppy face...she'd get anything she wanted here!!!
> 
> I miss you guys!! Life is so hectic and busy lately..I'm trying to make more time for myself to get on here, though!


Haha, I know!! She has the ultimate sad face. When I get mad at her she looks even sadder! LOL. Aw man, we do miss you around here... check in when you have the time 



Laurelin said:


> Cadence is so pretty! Such clean markings!
> 
> Avery congrats on your new baby! He really reminds me of a much daintier Beau. He's gorgeous. Really pretty little face.


Aww, thanks Laur! Btw, I was gonna say that too! Avery reminds me of Beau when he was younger..


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

It's been raining a lot here, plus it's my exam season so Nia hasn't been out for a run for 2 days. Today, she shredded a bunch of stuff including a couple of cardboard boxes -__-


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal hurt her back somehow late yesterday evening (I have no idea how), and for most of the night was lying around moping, and would pant and tremble when I touched her. I took her to the vet this morning and she was prescribed a muscle relaxant and an anti-inflammatory. She needs to be on crate rest for a week or two. The vet doesn't think it's anything really serious, though, and Crystal seems to be doing a bit better now.


----------



## Yuni

Ahhhh! I am dying from cuteness! 

I've always wanted a Papillon since Elementary.
They're just so cute with their big ol' ears. x3


----------



## Spirit_of_Cotons

I did not see all 83 pages, but what I did see was CUTENESS!!! Paps are soo adorable. So I was wondering, Papillon owners, do you like Phalenes? Or do you prefer your dog's ears up, not down?


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I definitely prefer Papillons over Phalenes. I really like prick eared dogs in general though. The other reason is that because Papillons/Phalenes have a lot of ear fringe, it would be troublesome to care for when the dog has drop ears and all the fringe if rubbing all over the ground whenever the dog eats/sniffs, etc.

we also have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and she has long long ear feathering that gets SO dirty. It tracks all kinds of dirt, debris, other dogs' urine, spit, gum, it's just a nightmare to brush and wash daily!! That's one of the reasons I love Papillons with erect ears.


----------



## lucidity

I personally prefer Papillons.. I feel like their huge, erect ears are the trademark! Phalenes are cute too, but I don't think I'd ever pick one over a Papillon.

Michi, I've started tying Lyra's ears on her head whenever I feed her raw/canned food. Her ears just get SO ICKY! When the feathering grows out, I think I'm going to use a snood when we go on walks hahaha.


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal's breeder may have a phalene in her latest litter (the dad's lines have been known to throw one quite rarely). Five boys, all completely adorable. About nine weeks old now, I think, although these pics are from a couple weeks ago. This is the phalene:










His ears are very thick and not standing up at all.

This was my pick for best of the litter; he actually placed second in evaluations (although four of the five were quite close):










Probably the actual best of the litter (he also has a heart shape on his head):










My favorite (with me here), based on personality (I also love tricolors):










He was totally GO GO GO the whole time I was there, and always is. I had fun grabbing him and setting him a few feet away; he'd come bouncing at me and I'd grab him and set him away again and he'd bound back, over and over.

And the final guy, the lone pet-quality pup:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Cran, you're really going to kill me with all the puppy pics! Recently I've been having puppy fever SO BADLY, I keep asking my mom if I can get my next puppy yet!! I love the little tricolored boy! That's exactly what I need in this house, a tricolored little boy pup!


----------



## Crantastic

I WISH you could take him because I absolutely adore him and I want him to go to someone whose pictures and updates I can follow! If I didn't have Casper I would already have claimed him for my own, haha. He seriously has so much personality. The breeder and I call him "bad dog." 

Edit: Come visit me here, and take him home with you. I'd vouch for you as a good owner!


----------



## Spirit_of_Cotons

That's interesting with the ears, Michiyo-Fir, never thought about that. Thanks for your answers guys. 

And cute pup pics, Crantastic.


----------



## Laurelin

I keep thinking of how easy it would be to add another papillon. 

I too prefer papillons to phalenes. I just like the look of erect ears to dropped ears. 

Hahaha:


annoying9 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Avery

I brought my Pap home last night. He still doesn't have a name, but I took a few pictures today and I thought I'd share.





































I get the feeling that I'm going to have to learn to do everything with a dog in my lap.


----------



## Laurelin

Holy cow, he's gorgeous! 

Expect never to be alone again.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Wow what a pretty boy! I love how much color he has on his body!!


----------



## Nargle

Awww Avery he is beautiful!! I love how much color he has on his body. And I also love his really clean and defined black markings. You're going to have so much fun with this guy :biggrin1:

ETA: Also, I prefer the Papillons over the Phalenes. Though the Phalenes are ADORABLE, I just like the prick eared variety better. I like prick eared dogs in general and I LOVE the airplane ears that most Papillons get when they relax their ears. See my avatar, lol!


----------



## Laurelin

Crantastic said:


> My favorite (with me here), based on personality (I also love tricolors):


I want that one.


----------



## Crantastic

Laurelin, he is a lot like Mia in activity level, and very friendly. You probably would want him!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Vancouver is looking absolutely beautiful today. So here are a few pics.


This is unedited, this is really what color the sky was today.


----------



## Crantastic

It's so pretty there. I should visit you. And bring you a little tricolored boy puppy.


----------



## Laurelin

Do not tell me he's a lot like Mia! Ugh, I'm such a sucker for crazy tricolor dogs. I wish I could have another right now. Mia would love a sibling that would play with her.


----------



## Crantastic

I don't think he's _quite_ as energetic as Mia, but he is definitely the most active and least easy to tire out of the litter! He played with me for a couple of hours even at six weeks old (everyone else fell asleep in a big pile and he refused to join them). The breeder affectionately calls him "bad dog." I told her it's a good thing I can't have another papillon right now, because I would want him and I'm sure he'd drive me crazy. 

This girl, Paige, comes very close to Mia levels of energy. Apparently she has a decent off switch, but she can go go go for a long time. And she looooves people. Whenever I visit and the breeder lets the dogs out of their crates, she is the first one to launch herself across the house and into my lap at top speed. Friendliest papillon I have ever met.



















(She's with Candy there, the mother of this litter... as you can see, Candy dropped all her coat while pregnant!)










(Paige is also the one who was lost in the woods for a few days this summer.)


----------



## Laurelin

Candy reminds me a lot of Crystal! Definitely a family resemblance.

Mia's grown into herself as far as energy goes. She's a great dog to have around now- okay to sleep most the day but always up for something fun. I keep catching myself thinking about how much I love that dog. She is just really an incredible personality to get to know (even if her puppyhood was challenging).


----------



## lucidity

Wow, Paige has grown up!! She has so much fur now. I actually think Dipper looks a whole lot more like Crystal, lol. Sometimes I do a double take when you post pics of him because he looks very much like Crystal!

Cadence has mellowed out a TON in the past year. Especially after I brought Lyra home. It's like he suddenly realized... holy shiet, I need to stop acting like that crazy puppy. Lol.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

I really like Candy! She's cute! Paige grew up SO much too! Wow she looks really mature!


----------



## Maribeso

Paige looks all grown up!  Haven't seen her since May. Thought I would post a pic of one of our newest pups. He was 3 weeks on friday. We have big hopes for this little guy.


----------



## Maribeso

okay that didnt work for the picture. Not quite sure how to add the pic


----------



## Maribeso

Okay figured out how to add pictures! This is 3 week old Mojo. He is a classic tri like his daddy Mickey.


----------



## Crantastic

Aww, cute little lump. I look forward to seeing him at shows when he's older! And yes, Paige looks different every time I see her! Her coat is coming in really nicely.


----------



## Maribeso

yes we will be at all lot of shows this coming year. We have a few we are handling for people, including hopefully a Phalene from the US, and then our own crew. I have read some of this thread. I actually really like Phalenes but I like a particular type. Phalenes are the origination of the breed then they were eventually bred for ears up.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's a good Nard picture.


nard by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Avery

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> So I was wondering, Papillon owners, do you like Phalenes? Or do you prefer your dog's ears up, not down?


I think Phalenes are cute, but there's just something about that Papillon wingspan. I also like prick-ear dogs in general.



Michiyo-Fir said:


> Wow what a pretty boy! I love how much color he has on his body!!


That's one of the reasons we picked him. It seems that most Paps have mostly white bodies (I believe one theory is that this was the fashion at one time?)
And boy is his color pretty! I'm always fascinated by all the shades and hues he's got mixed in.



Michiyo-Fir said:


>


I really, really like this one. Is it just me, or does it seem that Papillons are especially good at staring pensively into the distance, at least for photos?


I'm going to post a bunch of pictures, now.

Mumble (he has a name, now!) loves to run, but we don't have any large fenced-in areas at our houses, and no reliable recall yet. So a few weeks ago my sister and I took him to a baseball field, so he could let loose at full speed. And boy can this dog run! I'm going to have to find a way to make my camera faster, because most of my pictures turned out like this:










And this:










But I did manage to get a couple decent ones.


























I like this one a lot (see what I mean about staring pensively?)










It always surprises me, how much his looks can range from goofy to regal.

Also, I like this one, because I never realized how precise dogs' tongues are when they lick their noses.


----------



## Crantastic

Avery said:


> Is it just me, or does it seem that Papillons are especially good at staring pensively into the distance, at least for photos?


I don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Avery

Hahahahaha! I wish I could "like" that post.

Also, where was that first one taken? Those rocks are super cool.


----------



## Crantastic

I took it at a beach called Thunder Cove on Prince Edward Island. It's a great beach for photos; lots of cool rocks and sand dunes and caves and stuff.


----------



## Avery

Those are some lovely pictures.


----------



## lagger

Mojo is so cute!


----------



## Maribeso

Thanks Lagger! This is the newest picture of him taken. He was 4 weeks. I attached a picture of his mom Greta when she was a bit younger ( who I think he will resemble a fair amount) and his daddy, Mickey, in the summer.
Little Mojo is becoming quite spoiled. He is a singleton and doesnt like being alone at night as Greta likes to sleep on Shanas bed now so Shana moved him into her bed with her. lol At only just turned 5 weeks yesterday. I told her he is going to be a big sook.


----------



## Maribeso

Great pictures of Crystal! I love dogs on the beach pictures.  Where is Thunder Cove located in PEI? Looks beautful


----------



## lagger

He does looks quite devious, giving that towel what for.


----------



## Crantastic

Maribeso said:


> Great pictures of Crystal! I love dogs on the beach pictures.  Where is Thunder Cove located in PEI? Looks beautful


It's in Darnley, on the north side of the island. 

I went and took pictures of the puppies again today. They're incredibly cute.























































"Bad Dog" is still my favorite.










And Paige again!


----------



## Avery

Oh. My. God. They are so cute.


----------



## lucidity

I love Lando. And Bad Dog as well!!

Just some pics of Cadence and Lyra:


----------



## Laurelin

I do not need a puppy.


----------



## Crantastic

Laurelin said:


> I do not need a puppy.


----------



## Laurelin

Goodness, I REALLY wish I could have a pup. Something about him is just tugging at me.


----------



## Crantastic

There is something about him. I have visited her and met all of her litters since I got Crystal, and while I've thought all the pups were adorable, I haven't actually wanted one of them until him (oh, aside from Dexter, who was her keeper pup and is still my favorite of all her dogs). I can't have another dog, though. And I think Bad Dog might be a little too energetic for my tastes. Still love him!


----------



## Laurelin

I wonder how Mia would be with a puppy around, lol. I think it's a toss on whether she'd be excited or hate it. 

God, he's cute! Someone NEEDS him so I can watch him grow up.

It's a good thing he's so far away or I might would try to swing it.


----------



## Laurelin

This thread definitely needs this picture.


sadmia by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Crantastic said:


>


I love this little guy on the left! He's an exact copy of Nia..the way he acts too. I want him!!


----------



## Avery

It's my personal belief that everyone needs a puppy, always. It's just a matter of whether or not a puppy is feasible.


----------



## misscandypop

Here is my one and only Harley. He was born on Valentines day bless him and he will be 4 in February. 
He isnt much of a doggy dog, doesnt catch balls or play with other dogs and hates going out in the rain but he loves sniffing about outside and playing fetch with humans inside with his little toys.
Hes a very sensitive little thing and he follows me everywhere including the toilet. 



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----------



## nfedyk

I am new to this forum and just found this thread. I am just loving all your papillon pictures. We got my mom one for Christmas. I see her often and am so attached to her little dog Oliver. Here is a pic of her little guy:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Harley looks like such a great cuddlebug! 

Oliver is so handsome  Love the mask, Nia has one too!


Here's a few new ones of Nia. Already 3 years old, where has the time gone!

Second day home with my mom











To now!


----------



## lucidity

Holy cow I can't believe she's 3 already!! Time flies, doesn't it? Love her ear fringing, btw.. It's so nice and loooonggg


----------



## Laurelin

Oliver and Harley are both gorgeous! 

And Nia... I just love her! She's grown up gorgeous.

Mia is about to be three and I cannot believe it.


----------



## Lisa Ellen

I am new to this forum and have never been a member of any forum! So I don't know if I'm even typing in the right place! I have a new papillon named Finn. I want to learn to do agility with him. We're working on obedience, and he's so silly and wiggly and happy that I don't know which end is up sometimes!


----------



## Laurelin

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new papillon! They're fantastic dogs.


----------



## nfedyk

Lisa, congrats on your new puppy. Love his name. Would love to see a picture of him.


----------



## Lisa Ellen

Thank you for welcoming me! I've never joined a forum before, but when I started reading your messages and looking at your beautiful dogs, you seemed very friendly and inviting. Finn is named after Finn Mac Cool, a legendary Irish chieftain and warrior. He is just the best ever. We had lost our once in a lifetime dog, a German Shepherd, and after a year I was still crying over him ... so we found some little paws to fill his big ones! (I need to figure out how to make the photos larger, I guess.)


----------



## nfedyk

*Lisa,
Sorry about your shepherd. Finn so cute. Love all the fringe coming in his ears. Oliver had that but the groomer trimmed it out so now we are waiting for it to grow back. When I put my cursor over your pictures I was able to open them up larger.*


----------



## Crantastic

Make sure when Oliver is an adult that you don't let the groomer trim the ears! It can take a year and a half or more for the fringe to come back in fully. 

I think we've discussed this before, but all I do on Crystal is trim the bottom and sides of her feet, and her ankles and hocks. Simple. 

This site is useful: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/groom.htm


----------



## Lisa Ellen

I love seeing everyone's papillons. It's fun to see what he will look like when he has his full coat - but I don't want to rush through the puppy stage!


----------



## Lisa Ellen

I am working so hard on obedience training with Finn, but he is so active and strong-willed that I get frustrated all the time. I try to follow all the suggestions about making sessions short and fun, being consistent, etc., but I just don't know. Last night when I even just told him to sit, he stood there and stared at me like he couldn't hear me or had no idea what I meant. I mean, really!!!! He has a fine recall inside the house, but outside in the fenced area when not on a lead, I might as well be talking to the wall! He doesn't even look up. Does anyone have suggestions for me? I'm sure it's me most of the time, but is it possible that he's untrainable?


----------



## nfedyk

Lisa,
How old is Finn? I have no expertise in the area of training a puppy. But I will tell you that I got my mom puppy classes for Oliver as a Christmas gift. He is taking group lessons at Petsmart. I attended the first session to see what it would be like. The first 10 minutes or so all they did was bark at each other. I was wondering how on earth she would teach them anything with all the comotion. But the trainer was very calm and after a while got everyone pretty well on task. The two things she focused on in the first class was having the dog look at you when you called his name and learning to sit. Oliver had no problem answering to his name but sitting was a different story. However after practicing at home Oliver now sits without a problem. I think it just takes time and patience. I am sure Finn is trainable. Keep working at it and let us know how he does.


----------



## Laurelin

One thing with papillons I notice is you NEED a relationship with them to train some of them. Some, like Summer, will do anything for anyone, but a lot will blow you off unless they really trust you. How long have you had him? It might take time.

Also time-wise- maturity makes a load of difference. Mia is a perpetual puppy and now at nearly 3 she's finally got an attention span. Bernard was the same way- he was so stubborn up until he was older.

Clicker training is the way to go in my opinion. Also, get in a class if you can. It makes a huge difference.

Generally papillons are really easy to train. I will say they're a bit different than my past herding breed dogs. Everything's a game to papillons and they tend to be a bit sneakier in my experience. Sometimes you just need to get creative.


----------



## Lisa Ellen

Finn is only 5 1/2 months old, and we've had him since he was close to 4 months. He came from Wildfire Papillons. We are using clicker training and having weekly lessons. I work with him a couple of times a day for very short periods. 

I think I may be expecting too much, but I also think he is really headstrong and stubborn! I am learning from the trainer to be really consistent, even if it takes a thousand times to do something! Right after class I feel so confident, but by the end of the week I feel kind of hopeless! I think you're right about maturity - but I hope we can do some dog sports before he's 2 or 3! 


It really helps, Laurelin, to hear about your dogs - do you mean that they got more focused with age?


----------



## Laurelin

Some of them did. Bernard was a very stubborn guy until recently. I don't know what it was about him but he just did not care what you thought and wasn't all that driven by food. He was happy to sort of listen some of the time. Two years later he's much better. I think with him it was maturity and also teaching him that training was fun. 

Mia is now almost 3 and she's always been an easy dog to get interested in training. Up until recently though she would get frustrated very easily and that made it difficult to work with her. She still gets keyed up fast and still is really whiney when she's not getting to play (waiting her turn in agility was not her strong suit). So it's a bit of a different scenario with her because that was just a focus problem. Mia is easy though in that in one or two reps she's usually got what I want down. One thing that I enoy with my dogs is free shaping with a clicker. I would definitely look it up because after just a few free shaping games I had a dog that understood the training game and understood that she was supposed to try different things to see what worked.

Rose and Summer we got as adults so I have no idea there. Rose is a difficult dog to work with because she's so soft and you constantly have to build up her confidence. But Summer was great from the get-go. Beau was also easy from day 1 as far as training goes. 

I really like Wildfire's dogs.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's a new forum: http://www.papvilion.com/

It would be so neat if we could get a breed specific forum up and running. It's crazy to me that there isn't one yet!


----------



## nfedyk

Thanks for the link to the new forum.


----------



## Laurelin

I posted a few threads. I think it will take a big effort to get this thing going but it's something I think we should try to do. I know there's been a lot of people wanting a breed specific forum.

So everyone on here, join and post a lot! Let's jumpstart this thing!


----------



## Crantastic

Lando and Saddle (a.k.a. Bad Dog):










Lando:










Talos:










Talos and Motley:










Motley:










Saddle:










Crazy Paige:










Lucky:










Dexter:










Dipper and Talos:


----------



## Laurelin

Ahhh, you're killing me here! 

So many pretty dogs. Don't you need a second papillon? they're better in pairs.


----------



## lucidity

I need em alllllllll!!!

Laurelin, I joined that Pap forum you posted but haven't had time to post anything there yet!


----------



## Crantastic

Laurelin said:


> Ahhh, you're killing me here!


IT IS INTENTIONAL. I sent you a Facebook message, btw.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

So adorable! I like Talos the best still  Lucky is gorgeous too!


----------



## nfedyk

They are all so cute. Would love to bring one home.


----------



## Avery

Aww man. That's the one thing about getting an older puppy. We missed out on that fluffy stage.

I guess not having to deal with teething and having a mostly housebroken pup right off the bat is a fair trade.


----------



## Crantastic

These guys are 19 weeks old now and are reliably going on a pee pad inside (well, three of the four are, anyway ) and sleeping in crates at night, so housetraining is off to a good start! If I were to get a puppy, I definitely wouldn't mind waiting until it was this age rather than 10-12 weeks. I still don't want a puppy right now, though.


----------



## Laurelin

I do though!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Me too!! I love 8-10 week old puppies though..I love how much they change over the course of being 8 weeks to 20 weeks old. It's so drastic and I love it.


----------



## sassafras

I will take Paige, please. Thank you.


----------



## Laurelin

A few of the girls


DSC_1021 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


2 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_0945 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1020 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Laurelin

Ok, is this not the sweetest face?


DSC_1004 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1003 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Avery

From a breeder's website. Thought I'd show him to you guys because he's got so much color on his body!


----------



## Crantastic

I love a lot of color, although if the tail has a lot of color it can end up looking shorter than it actually is. His tail looks shorter in the first pic than in the second!

Black and whites are so pretty. I don't see many around here... all the pet people have red sables and the breeders have red sables and tris. I've only met a couple black and whites.


----------



## Avery

I think it looks shorter because it's curled to the other side of his body? From the second picture it looks like most of his tail is white.

Black and whites do seem to be less common. I will admit, reds and sables are my favorites.


----------



## naql

Here is a newer picture of my Tessa:


She is all black and white.


----------



## nfedyk

Tessa is so sweet.


----------



## Avery

D'awwww! So cute!


----------



## Laurelin

I had to share this breed description I found.

[Quote*]Like a supermodel with a Ph.D* in nuclear physics, the Papillon first catches your eye with his looks - his trademark butterfly-wing ears, silky coat and dark eyes - his grace and his expressiveness. But packed inside that pretty purse-sized body is one of the smartest of all dogs, a clever, active little guy who excels at almost anything dogs do, from organized sports like canine agility to long walks in the park – and of course, companionship.[/Quote]



> f you want a lazy little lap dog, don't get a Papillon. He's bright and busy and ready for just about anything. Admire him for his smarts, give him things to do that you both enjoy, and sit back and watch when he decides to put on a show, and you and your Papillon will be the perfect match.
> 
> Which isn't to say he's not going to sit in your lap. Tire him out and keep him from being bored, and you'll be rewarded with a particularly trainable, well-behaved, extremely affectionate dog who looks to you for his cues and his amusement. But consider yourself warned: Expect him to lie around all day and gaze adoringly at you all night, or relegate him to backyard or garage, and you'll end up wondering just how such a very tiny dog can do so much damage to house and yard – and make so much noise.


From here: http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/health/papillon.aspx

Paps are such great dogs. I find myself even now becoming more and more in love with them.


----------



## naql

Here is another one of Tessa from this morning:


----------



## PappyMom

It's been a while guys! Miss you all, alots been going down.. Needed to come see you all and vent. Look who I stumbled upon when looking at Petfinder crushes just now..: http://www.petfinder.com/classified...CT&order=created+DESC&keyword=papillon&type=P

I could just cry. My ex put Gizmo up for adoption on there. My fiance emailed him just now asking if he still had him. He told me that Giz could stay with him until we are able to get our apartment so I can have my guy back. That'd be perfect! I just don't know how Giz would respond to his dogs.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh my goodness!! I really really hope you get Giz back!!!


----------



## PappyMom

I haven't seen Giz in 2 years now..I don't even know what he's like anymore.. My fiance has 2 males dogs at his house..so I'm worried about how that will work out..


----------



## Laurelin

Oh no, that's awful! I think I would literally punch him in the face if that happened to me.


----------



## Avery

Oh, I hope you get him back! Keep us updated!


----------



## CJay

I've never seen so many paps!!! People have always looked at me like I was nuts when I said I wanted one! I am finally getting my sweet boy in 13 weeks! Pictures coming soon!


----------



## nfedyk

Congratulations Clay !!!


----------



## Laurelin

You will definitely not regret getting a papillon. They're amazing. 


DSC_0975 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Eating dirt:


DSC_0939 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## CJay

Adorable!!!! I just got pictures from the breeder of my possible baby!!! I am so excited. She's allowing me to tell her which one I want but I would like to take her opinion as far as temperament goes as well! I am super excited because she only had boys this go around and thats just what I wanted! She has another momma pap expecting this week as well so there will be lots of baby paps to chose from! I can't wait I have dreamt of paps my entire life <3


----------



## CJay

Here is my baby!! 

I just couldn't get his little spot out of my head!! After talking with the breeder no matter what personality he has, this one is mine =)


----------



## nfedyk

Oh he is soooooo sweet. Great choice.


----------



## CJay

Thank you! I love his little spot on his blaze!


----------



## Crantastic

Nice coloring. I hope he ends up with a personality you can work with. I know I wouldn't have been able to handle a very active pup like Laurelin's Mia was!


----------



## CJay

Crantastic said:


> Nice coloring. I hope he ends up with a personality you can work with. I know I wouldn't have been able to handle a very active pup like Laurelin's Mia was!


Thanks!! After reading through this thread I know I could handle a pup like Mia she sounds like a lot of fun! I'm not too worried! I have a lot of time to take him out and play and what not! My boyfriend is also very active... He plays sports and is hoping for an active pup to throw a ball around with and run around the fields with. We are very active individuals and still very young so having a dog that could keep up would only be a benefit! And on the other side of the spectrum having a dog that is calm and mellow will be nice as well maybe just no as much fun but I will love him just the same.

If Benji is anything like his parents... He will be somewhere in between!


----------



## Chance`s Mom

Hi everybody! This a picture of my guy. I adopted him from a shelter on 3/23/12. Have named him Chance as we both get a chance to heal each other. I drive truck all over North America so he will be a well travelled little man. lol Plz excuse his little sweater as it was very cold on Monday morning so I cut a sleeve of a sweatshirt and made him a sweater so he wouldn`t be cold. I`m not much of a seamstress but he seems to like it. lol


----------



## Chance`s Mom

CJay that picture of your baby is beautiful. Btw so are all of the ones pictured on here. As you can see my Chance also has a spot on his blaze. I almost named him Medallion because of that spot. But I gave him a fancy title anyway!!!! Chance`s Star Medallion.


----------



## CJay

Yes! He looks just like my little guy! 

I wanted to ask you all... Have you ever seen a Pap that was all white on the body? Pefectly marked as far as the fac goes but no patches of color on the body at all?


----------



## Avery

I can't recall a specific dog, but I don't think it's unheard of to see an all-white body. I think we've discussed on this thread before how modern Paps lean toward less color on the body, as that was the fashion at some point.


----------



## Crantastic

I have seen one. I don't like that look very much... I prefer more color, especially at the base of the tail.


----------



## CJay

I had never seen one until recently! My breeder sent me pictures of the pup because she had a litter but was originally going to keep all of them however of the litters she had planned she only had boys and 1 girl and she had hoped for another female. This is the sable boy I was orignally looking for and was going to wait for her next litter with these parents next year because we had talked about agility and other things and she reccomended that planned litter to me but told me she was planning on keeping them this year and next year I could have one. This was the only litter where she knew for sure she's only have sable puppies and the others were a gamble which is why I ended up with a black and white. When she decided she would let one go she sent me the pictures of those two puppies and one has no white they are adorable but I had just never seen it before! 

I decided to stay with my orignal pup for the time being but she isn't making any final decisions until the puppies are older... Right now she's going off the parents and such to guide people but we all have to see how our pups grow up. Since I'm pretty flexible, I'll be mostly likely ending up with the one I want from our conversations but she was just showing me the other options! They are all so cute I wish I could bring home 2!


----------



## Laurelin

All white bodies are actually pretty common. Mia's sire, one of her sisters, and one of her brothers are all white on the body.


----------



## naql

I've posted these elsewhere but figured I'd add them here too. Tessa will be four months old in a couple of weeks.


P3250159 by naql, on Flickr


P4010168 by naql, on Flickr

Tessa really loves climbing under the pillows on the couch and trying to grab me or my yorkie. I took the opportunity to get a picture of her the other night.

P4040170 by naql, on Flickr


----------



## PappyMom

Not sure how much I will be back to post on this thread, just need some time to heal...Roxy passed away today..went into seizures last night. I'm very heartbroken.


----------



## Crantastic

Aww, I am so sorry, PappyMom.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Oh no!! Hugs to you and your family, I'm so sorry!


----------



## nfedyk

I am so sorry about Roxy. Can't imagine how hard that must be.


----------



## Avery

This is terrible news. I'm very sorry to hear it. I'm sending good thoughts your way.


----------



## Charis

I'm so sorry. Hugs.


----------



## Laurelin

So sorry for your loss.


----------



## stacey101

Im so sorry for your loss *hugs*


----------



## Aussie27

I am so so sorry for your loss! I wasn't around on these forums much, but when I was, I always looked through this thread to see the pictures. Roxy was an absolutely adorable Papillon, and I'm sure she's an even cuter angel who is up there waiting for you.


----------



## CJay

I'm sorry for your loss she was a very beautiful Pap.


----------



## PappyMom

Thank you everyone..I am trying not to dwell. Roxy was/is perfect...and now she is a perfect puppy angel. There was a 6 year old boy that passed away the day before she did. I take comfort in that he needed her more than I did, and she is now his little lapdog. I knew God had a bigger plan for her that night. I will check back with you guys, I love to see all of your pappys..can't wait to see some of these new pups arrive. I too am waiting on a puppy, not a papillon, but my cousin's dog just had a litter of lhasa apso mixes on Friday..he offered me one to help me heal. It gives me something good to think about.. May I count down to my puppy with you guys? She can be erm...a glorified papillon? lol


----------



## Avery

I would love to see news and pictures of your upcoming Honerary Papillon puppy.


----------



## CJay

I have new pictures of Benji!! Can't wait to share them with all of you later!


----------



## Aussie27

She could definitely be an honorary Papillon, I'd love to see pictures!  And CJay, I can't wait to see them!


----------



## CJay

I just update the Benji thread but I'll post on here I didn't post in there!


----------



## nfedyk

Awww !! That Benji is so sweet.


----------



## CJay

Thank you!!


----------



## stacey101

awe <3 bless his heart for being that cute.


----------



## Abbylynn

Awwwe .... heart melting!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Haven't shared pics here for a long time. Just have one I liked.


----------



## Abbylynn

PappyMom said:


> Not sure how much I will be back to post on this thread, just need some time to heal...Roxy passed away today..went into seizures last night. I'm very heartbroken.


I am so sorry I missed this post ... I am so very sorry for your loss.


----------



## Avery

It has been too long since this thread updated.

We put together a makeshift run with a nylon rope, a flexi, and a carabiner so Mumble could mosey around the yard while we sit outside.

He spends most of the time just laying in the grass.


































Getting fluffier all the time.

Later there was a bath, where Mumble stops existing and Saddog makes an appearance.


----------



## Crantastic

It HAS been way too long since anyone posted here! And aww, papillons always look so ridiculous when soaked, haha.


----------



## CJay

Avery those pics are soooo cute!!!! I can't wait to get my Pap in a tub!! LOLZ

I have a question... 

How much do all your paps weigh??


----------



## Crantastic

Crystal weighs about 10lbs, sometimes 11 if she's getting a bit chubby (vet says she should be 10). She's a little tall for a papillon (11.75 inches) and has a lot of bone. She's actually pretty thin, but looks bigger when all fluffy. Here's a pic of her with a tiny papillon (Julia is around 5lbs, I think), and another pic of her when wet:










Link to pic of her when wet (she loks a bit thinner in the photo than she actually is because of the angle and the fluffiness of her front half), and another from the side.


----------



## CJay

Thank You! 

I was just curious because the breeder says Benji will be a smaller pap! And I wanted to see what a pap his size would be compared to a larger one and your pic of the 5lb pap with Crystal is perfect! Thats close the size Benji will be... She says in the 5-6lb range but not over 7lbs. I'm fine with that though I will love him the same regardless...! 

And his personality is to die for!! He's such an energetic lovable pup!!!! I'm so in love =)

In case you guys didn't see when I updated his thread ....


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia is 6.5 - 7 lbs and 10.25 inches. She's quite thin but doesn't actually look that small.

Dry!




First (and only) time being washed in the sink




Weeet!

]


----------



## CJay

That sink pic is priceless!!!!!!!! Awwwwww


----------



## gunnarwhisler

oh my gosh! I have been thinking of a breed that I want to convince my mom to let me get, or even wait until I have my own place, and looking at all of these pictures has helped me decide! 

I want a Papillon! I know of one person around in my smalltown Iowa place that I call home that has a Papillon, but it is a mix, and they got it from the pound! These dogs are so incredibly cute. I still remember that when I was like 10, I always wanted a Papillon, and now that I am 16, I have re uncovered the magic that is the Papillon!  Great thread!!


----------



## Laurelin

Beau hovers around 9ish lbs but he's fat. He's lost a lot already recently since I put him on a diet but I'd like him at about 8 lbs. He's a big boned boy.


Beau Running by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Summer is the tallest and is pretty uniformly in the upper 7ish lb to 8 lb range. Last time she weighed in at 8.1 lbs. She's just shy of 11 inches tall.


DSC_0154 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Mia's usually about 7.6 but I'd like her better at about 7 lbs. She is the one that gains weight looking at food. She fluctuates a lot. Right now she's on the tubby side imo.


time by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Rose is 6.5 lbs typically. 


roses by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Bernard is the smallest at 5.5 lbs. He sometimes weighs in closer to 6 lbs. 


DSC_0251 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

when you put them all together they look similar in height though.


chazsignew by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Daenerys

Laurelin, do you feed kibble? If so, what kind, and how much do your guys each get in a day? My pap, Legend, needs to go on a diet and I've got the increase exercise bit but now I'm trying to determine how much food he should be getting. Right now its 1/2 a cup of Earthborn a day plus 2 spoonfuls of Merrick's canned.


----------



## PappyMom

1 more week till puppy, guys! I'm on mobile web on my phone, but i have pics...just don't know how to upload them.


----------



## Aussie27

Even though Beau is only about 5.5lbs, he still looks quite a bit bigger than Cali, haha.. I just love every single one of them though! 

Here's a newish picture of Cali, or two...


DSC_1031 by Right Cute Cali, on Flickr


DSC_0059 by Right Cute Cali, on Flickr

PappyMom, looking forward to seeing some pictures of your new cutie!


----------



## nfedyk

Oliver weighs about 8.5 pounds. Just took these pics recently after he was groomed.


----------



## WickedPaws

I have to say all of your paps are beautiful! They are duch stunning little dogs. I got to show a few and they had soooo much personality! They must be a joy to own!


----------



## Aussie27

Oliver is so handsome! He's definitely mature a lot since I last saw pictures. 

And Cali definitely is a joy to own, she's also good for a laugh every now and again.


----------



## CJay

Benji will be home in a few more days!!!!!!! 

Thanks everyone for posting pictures and weight!!! It was really helpful!!


----------



## nfedyk

CJay said:


> Benji will be home in a few more days!!!!!!!
> 
> Thanks everyone for posting pictures and weight!!! It was really helpful!!


Oh how exciting. bet you can't wait.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer and Mia are on raw. Beau and Rose are on TOTW. Bernard is on blue Buffalo. 

CJay, I bet you're ecstatic!


----------



## naql

Here are some of Tessa:




Tessa is going on 6 months old now. She is currently at around three and a half pounds. She isn't really growing very much and I'm wondering if she'll even hit 5 pounds at this rate.


----------



## nfedyk

Tessa is tiny but so sweet. Love the black and white paps.


----------



## PappyMom

Oliver looks like roxy, only bigger... How sweet is he! I miss having my little velcro pappy. Love all of the pictures!


----------



## naql

Some action shots from today:









(Click for full size.)


----------



## Laurelin

My baby is all grown up


DSC_0980 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## PappyMom

Puppy is here! No internet in the new apartment yet.. and I can't share pics from mobile web! She is precious though! I have pictures on Facebook if anyone wants to add me and view for now! Facebook.com/papillonlove


----------



## Aussie27

I can't wait to see some pictures! 

And CJay, any pictures/new on Benji yet?


----------



## nfedyk

PappyMom said:


> Puppy is here! No internet in the new apartment yet.. and I can't share pics from mobile web! She is precious though! I have pictures on Facebook if anyone wants to add me and view for now! Facebook.com/papillonlove


Oh I want to see pictures !!!


----------



## naql

There isn't much that is cuter than a sleepy papillon.


----------



## Aussie27

There definitely isn't. Usually when I wake up, Cali is under the blankets with me and curled right up next to my shoulder... and then as soon as I move, she turns into a crazy ball of love who basically tries to smother me with kisses. Last night, I "played dead" with her and she began nibbling on my fingers, digging at my head and barking at me... I'm just so mean.


----------



## naql

Tessa is usually curled up in my arm with Lizzie in the other arm. If I lay down on my stomach to read for a bit Tessa lays on my back. As soon as I get up I've got the both of them kissing me.


----------



## PappyMom

I was able to get a pic of the puppy who is now named Belle on my Sig!


----------



## Crantastic

I messed up her hair, and she is not impressed.


----------



## Aussie27

Aww, Belle is so cute! I'm excited for more pictures.  

And Crystal is looking lovely, as always.  And she definitely doesn't look too impressed haha.


----------



## nfedyk

Oh that little Belle is so sweet. Chrystal definitely does not look happy.


----------



## PappyMom

More Belle Pictures <3 (Visiting at my mom's, figured I'd sneak some pictures on!)









This is when we first met her!


















This is before I got brave and clipped those kitty cat claws..lol..I was petrified cause this baby is not even a half of a pound yet..ugh..lol









Exhausted after collar shopping!!









Sharing lunch with her big 'brother'...  Despite their size difference, she adores him.









Showing off that new collar!









Sleeping with daddy...haha..makes momma's heart melt!!

Thank you for letting her be an honorary pappy!! I love seeing all of your paps, and I miss my Roxy so much. Another pap is definitely in my future, but for now I am going to love these babies. <3


----------



## CJay

Belle is adorable!!!!! I just wanna give her hugs and kisses!!

Benji is home and adorable as ever!! I'll add pictures later!


----------



## Aussie27

Belle is so adorable! She's almost like a short-haired, fringe-less Papillon puppy. 

And I almost forgot that you brought him home this week! I can't wait for pictures. My aunt might possibly get a Pap puppy as well this summer, depending on certain things. This forum will be loaded!


----------



## nfedyk

Oh that little Belle has my heart.


----------



## CJay

I know that when paps are puppies they have different coats but is that coat different from their head to their body?? Benji's body the closer you get to his tail is very cottony and we joke around and say he looks "homeless" well because it really seems that way. The color is also less rich on his body the further towards his bum you go. His head on the other hand is rich black and white and very silky and soft like a normal pap feels like... Is this normal? I'm going to try giving him a bath today too... I've been holding off on putting the advantix on him until 2 days after his bath but I really should have given him one by now...


----------



## Aussie27

I don't quite remember the texture of Cali's fur but there was a definite difference between the fur on her legs/head than the fur on her body and tail. She was basically like a poofball.. as you can see here.


DSC_0051 by Right Cute Cali, on Flickr


----------



## naql

Tessa had very cottony fur on her body and the smoother fur on her head:


2012-02-11 at 18-38-59 by naql, on Flickr

I think her black spots got darker and richer when her adult coat came in:

DSC_0142 by naql, on Flickr


----------



## CJay

Aussie I wish I had you on speed dial!!! You have been zoo much help to me in all my treads!! I jus gave him a bath and he tried off in no time and I must say his coat is looking a lot better that it did before! 

Now only if he would settle down so I can finish rewriting my paper... =\ LOLZ!


----------



## CJay

naql said:


> Tessa had very cottony fur on her body and the smoother fur on her head:
> 
> 
> 2012-02-11 at 18-38-59 by naql, on Flickr
> 
> I think her black spots got darker and richer when her adult coat came in:
> 
> DSC_0142 by naql, on Flickr


You have been tremendous help too nail that is exactly what Benji is looking like his head looks just like tessa's! I wish he looked at neat as her and Cali did!! He's not as fluffy I'm about to transfer some pictures onto my computer for you all so you can see my little monster now that he is home and bad!!!!


----------



## CJay

Here are some quick webcam pictures! You can't really see the difference in his coat in these but I wanted to show you all him... 

Excuse my bathroom in the back, thats his home for the time being until he proves he is better in his letterbox / house training!


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

CJay said:


> I know that when paps are puppies they have different coats but is that coat different from their head to their body?? Benji's body the closer you get to his tail is very cottony and we joke around and say he looks "homeless" well because it really seems that way. The color is also less rich on his body the further towards his bum you go. His head on the other hand is rich black and white and very silky and soft like a normal pap feels like... Is this normal? I'm going to try giving him a bath today too... I've been holding off on putting the advantix on him until 2 days after his bath but I really should have given him one by now...


Perhaps he's halfway between his puppy coat and adult coat. As far as I remember, the puppy coat is much fluffier and softer than the silky adult coat that grows in. Also the adult coat tends not to grow in everywhere at the same time. Nia had half a body of adult coat and half a body of puppy coat as well at one point. that's the only thing I can think of.


----------



## CJay

Michiyo-Fir said:


> Perhaps he's halfway between his puppy coat and adult coat. As far as I remember, the puppy coat is much fluffier and softer than the silky adult coat that grows in. Also the adult coat tends not to grow in everywhere at the same time. Nia had half a body of adult coat and half a body of puppy coat as well at one point. that's the only thing I can think of.


That could be possible but he's so young. Only 12 weeks... I'm going to call his breeder and ask her about it too. I'm not too worried about it though. He's super soft everywhere so I;m assuming his coat is in great shape! We'll see how it continues to grow.


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

CJay said:


> That could be possible but he's so young. Only 12 weeks... I'm going to call his breeder and ask her about it too. I'm not too worried about it though. He's super soft everywhere so I;m assuming his coat is in great shape! We'll see how it continues to grow.


It's pretty normal for coat change to happen from 12-16 weeks. You might notice that the cottony hair becomes really easy to pull out if you gently pull on it very soon. That's normal too, they just have to lose the baby coat to grow in the silky coat.


----------



## naql

Tessa's coat changed completely between 16 and 20 weeks so don't worry too much about it. Just give Benji time to grow up a little.

Here she is at four months old:

P3250159 by naql, on Flickr

And here she is about a month later:

P4270183 by naql, on Flickr


----------



## Crantastic

That litter of papillons I visited a bunch this year, from when they were around six weeks to six months(ish) old:























































You can see how much the coats changed between pictures.  That last guy (the keeper boy) is around seven months old in the last two pics, I believe. Very nice amount of fringe, and his coat's coming in well.


----------



## Aussie27

CJay said:


> Aussie I wish I had you on speed dial!!! You have been zoo much help to me in all my treads!! I jus gave him a bath and he tried off in no time and I must say his coat is looking a lot better that it did before!
> 
> Now only if he would settle down so I can finish rewriting my paper... =\ LOLZ!


How'd he react to the bath? Cali still hates them, even at 15 months. Although, it's my mission to get her loving water by the end of this summer.. so we'll see how that goes. 

And I wish you luck with that! I don't think I can go ten minutes without Cali demanding some sort of acknowledgement.


----------



## Crantastic

Took Crystal (and Casper) for a walk in the woods today!


----------



## NozOnyCalAur

Oh what such lovely babies! Papillons are an adorable breed. I was googling them and saw photos of a phaelan(sp?) where the ears hang down and I almost said to my husband, "We need to get one!"


----------



## CJay

I love dogs with thier toungs hanging out thier mouths!!!!!! Awwww yours are too cute and I adore casper!!!!! If I didn't want an Eskie I'd seriously look into Klee Kai's and see if I could manage one!


----------



## CJay

Finally pictures of Benji!!! 

See Aussie... He does exist!!! =)


----------



## naql

He is very cute CJay. 

Here is a new one of Tessa for the thread:

DSC_0196 by naql, on Flickr


----------



## CJay

Awwwwwwwww she looks so adorable and content!!!!!!


----------



## Aussie27

Benji is so so so adorable! I miss having a puppy now.. so I've realized that I'll likely end up with another Papillon to keep Cali company at one point, once I get my sports dog. 

And Crystal is looking pretty as always, and Casper is a cutie too!  It looks like they enjoyed it.


----------



## Catdancer

Here is my sweet little Dexter! He just turned 5 months old and in a couple of pics he is with some of his kitty friends. Can you see his black heart? My husband says that his markings and his ticking are very "rock n roll". lol


----------



## Laurelin

Oh I love the heart!

My dog's fringe is getting crazy.


----------



## Laurelin




----------



## Catdancer

Laurelin, I LOVE all that long fringe!!! And I LOVE tri-colored paps. The brown, black and white I just think are beautiful. It looks like her fringe has highlights with the black over the brown. I cant wait until Dexter starts getting some fringe!! Right now, he just looks like a black and white gremlin. lol


----------



## CJay

Aussie27 said:


> How'd he react to the bath? Cali still hates them, even at 15 months. Although, it's my mission to get her loving water by the end of this summer.. so we'll see how that goes.
> 
> And I wish you luck with that! I don't think I can go ten minutes without Cali demanding some sort of acknowledgement.


I missed this!! HE hates baths but loves the cuddles in the towel when he's drying after... Hoping he gets used to them!!


----------



## CJay

Catdancer said:


> View attachment 34712
> View attachment 34713
> View attachment 34714
> View attachment 34715
> View attachment 34716
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my sweet little Dexter! He just turned 5 months old and in a couple of pics he is with some of his kitty friends. Can you see his black heart? My husband says that his markings and his ticking are very "rock n roll". lol


I love the heart!!! Benji has one too!!!! Dexters is much cuter though!!


----------



## ladyshadowhollyjc

Dear heavens all the black and white paps are melting my heart. I think they're all gorgeous dogs, but black and whites are my favorite.


----------



## Crantastic

No matter how hot it is in the house (and it's hot in here, especially for PEI), Crystal still wants to lie on top of me.


----------



## Jackiejp

I have really enjoyed looking at all the photos of these adorable paps!! I do think papillon puppies are the most adorable puppies.
I got my little papillon girl at 9 weeks old. Her ears had never been up but within a week after getting her 1 ear popped up for about a day and a half then it dropped and the other one popped up for about a day then it dropped and her ears have been down (I mean really down with a crease and everything) up until now and she is 16 weeks old so I am seriously thinking she may be phalene. I am wondering what others thoughts are on if my little pup will be pap or phalene?
Here is a few recent photos of her.......


----------



## Jackiejp

Papillon or Phalene?

Here she is today at 16 weeks old.......





















Other than the few days back when she was 9 weeks when one ear came up and then the other her ears have looked like this. Both her parents were papillons (ears up) and I know the phalene is rare but after looking at these ears for 7 weeks it sure seems like phalene to me?


----------



## lucidity

Jackiejp said:


> Papillon or Phalene?
> 
> Here she is today at 16 weeks old.......
> 
> Other than the few days back when she was 9 weeks when one ear came up and then the other her ears have looked like this. Both her parents were papillons (ears up) and I know the phalene is rare but after looking at these ears for 7 weeks it sure seems like phalene to me?


There is no way to know for sure if she will be a Papillon or Phalene until about 8 months. I've seen Papillons who were Paps until they were about 8-9 months old, then their ears decided to drop. Then there are others whose ears hover between up and down all their lives (this is a fault and is just a Pap with wrong earsets).

Anyway, I've got huge news!! Sorry, been MIA for such a long time.. but I'm back now! Finally found my show Papillon--he is now 4 months old and is staying with his breeder in Europe until he gets his Junior Champion titles. He will also be making an appearance at the World Dog Show in Budapest next May... after which he will finally be coming over here! His dam is from 3/4 English lines (she's got Daneview Bill Bailey in there--so, related to Laurelin's Beau!), and 1/4 Swedish lines. The sire is 100% Swedish (Caratoots, Silenzio's). He should mature at about 10.2-10.5 inches and at about 3.5 kg (7-8lbs). Anyway, here are some pictures of him!



























Here he is with his litter sister.









stacked.









Him at his first show last Saturday in baby puppy class.

Am so excited, can't wait for him to come over!


----------



## Laurelin

Congrats! Both those pups are gorgeous. Lucidity, your boy does remind me a little bit of puppy Beau. He's gorgeous! I was looking at papillon breeders the other day thinking how I don't need one, lol! But I want one. 

Jackie, I have no idea. Bernard's ears went up and down quite a bit but by 16 weeks one was up all the way and the other was on it's way. To me your pup looks like she may be a phalene but then again I've heard that if they start going up, they'll go up. There's also dogs that end up with half erect (weak) ears too.


----------



## lucidity

Thanks!! Yeah, I think the colour is pretty similar  You should get another one!! Hahaha.. since ya know, you only have 2 around these days.. lol.

Incidentally, there was a huge international show in Sweden last Sunday, and Lennon's (I'm thinking this will be his call name) grandsire, Multi Ch Caratoots Classic Commander went BIS!!! He beat 3302 other dogs, which is such a HUGE DEAL! Saw a video of him at the show during BIS judging and WOW... he has amazing movement. This is him on the Caratoots website: http://www.caratoots.com/dogs_kevin.html


----------



## Jackiejp

What a nice looking pup Lucidity! So much expression too....you must be very excited. It will be fun seeing him grow up (post lots of photos).

It looks like it will be a wait and see with my pup. Too bad there seems to be so many issues with bad ears within the breed as they are such a big part of the look of these adorable dogs. It is also kind of my fault for not being more careful in not making ears more of a priority when picking a pup. I will love her no matter what


----------



## lucidity

Thanks! Yeah I am  Will remember to drop by more often to post pictures.. lol.

If yours is a pet (not a showdog), I wouldn't worry about the ears.. I've seen lots of half erect ears that are really cute! Just have fun with her while she's a puppy.. they grow up way too quickly!!


----------



## Jackiejp

Yes she is a pet dog so I guess it does not really matter. I did first fall in love with the prick eared pap but after realizing it is possible I could have a phalene decided the drop ear is very sweet and also fell in love with there sweet look. The idea of getting a pup with one ear up and one down well that has just not sunk in I guess. I will need a little time I think to fall in love with that look...
Kevin....wow what can I say other than he is one handsome dog! Lennon clearly has the breeding and looks to be a great dog.....congratulations.


----------



## Crantastic

Jackie, I want to show you Miller (from the same breeder as my Crystal) as a little baby:










At four months old:










And at six months old (photo from his new owner):










His ear leather was pretty thick and I was sure he was going to be a phalene... but nope! Your pup may end up being similar, especially if the ears are trying to go up. Keep us posted.


----------



## Jackiejp

Oh wow thanks for the photos of Miller.....he is really cute! It is surprising those ears went up (especially so late) I guess I better just figure anything can happen for the next several months. I think I will just enjoy her puppy days and not worry about it


----------



## Avery

I've heard that supplementing their diet with calcium can help their ears go up? Someone more experienced should probably advise you on this, though I don't think adding a bit of cottage cheese would harm the dog.

Edit: Though I don't think there's anything to be done if he's meant to be a phalene. I also wanted to had: OMG! Cute puppiesss! Sometimes I regret getting a nearly-adult dog instead of a puppy (not that I don't love my dog, of course!), as I missed out on all that fluff, but then I remember that I also missed out on the chewing, midnight wake ups, and the majority of housebreaking.


----------



## Catdancer

Hi all. Jackie, my pappy pup's ears did not go up until he was between 4 and 5 months. Just when I had gotten used to the fact that he would be phalene, I got up the next morning and they were up. lol It took about a week total for them to stay fully up. One would be up, one down. then both down, then both up. It may just take a little longer, like it did with my Dexter.


----------



## Laurelin

Rawr


whee by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

She is too cool

DSC_1259 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

And cute

DSC_1256 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Jackiejp

Catdancer....that is so funny that you say that because it seems one of my dogs ears is wanting to come up.....haha. I guess time will tell.
Laurelin.... I love the "whee" photo it is great!


----------



## jdudziak

Ok So I heard there is a page for Papillons so this is my new boy, Bandit. I tried to change his name to Pepino but the family vetoed it. We adopted him from our local shelter and he is wonderful. He adores people. Is good with other dogs. I think we might have some seperation anxiety to work on but I think we will get there.


----------



## cereliastidd

Very cute! I like it. 


reverend_maynard said:


> Here's my Bindi...
> 
> When she was about 5 months...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 year later...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have any recent ones on this computer, but I'll tyr to get them up soon.


http://www.officialhealth.org/


----------



## jdudziak

Bindi is such a pretty girl and they just seem to be the greatest dogs.


----------



## Laurelin

Bandit is adorable! Welcome to the club.


----------



## Kyllobernese

At the Agility trials this year, there is a woman who has three really nice Papillons she is competing with. Really keeps her running as they are usually back to back in some classes. They have done really well. I will try and get some pictures of them at the next trial for you "Papillon people".


----------



## ria

Omg they are all so beautiful!!! 

As far as I know there is only one breeder in south africa. I'd love to breed these beauties!


----------



## Daenerys

Random picture of my sweet Leggie boy


----------



## spanielorbust

This boy came home with my friend yesterday. He is 10 months old and about 3 pounds. He NEEDS some weight on him, but he is also very fine boned.

The breeder is retiring (after 20 years) as she has had some health issues and had to move from her location where she could keep the number of dogs needed to breed forward a line in this small breed. This boy is from a litter of three tinies (not planned that way) where one was lost despite tons of intervention. She kept him on until she thought he was sound enough to place. My friend loves her purse dogs and has no kids so his fine bones will be well cared for (well, the cats might give him some trouble.)

I can't help but to keep staring at those EARS!










She is open for name suggestions currently.

SOB


----------



## Mrsharden81701

All your pups are just adorable! 

They really are the cutest dogs ever!!! I have wanted one ever since I was a little girl. I have yet to get one but one day I will


----------



## Avery

Oh my gosh, SOB. I love his little blaze, how it gets super thin. I don't have any names right now but if I think of any I'll throw them out there.


----------



## Daenerys

Here is Legend going for a walk in his raincoat


----------



## Laurelin

iy by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


iz by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

How can you not love them?


----------



## Crantastic

Aww, Laurelin, they just look so HAPPY.

Here's Crystal, annoyed at being forced to pose on a bench. She actually jumped over it at me a couple of times.



















And watching other dogs go by...


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin, they are amazing. I'm tearing up I'm laughing so hard!!


I totally stalk this thread and get excited every time I see a new post. I'm a big dog person, but man are papillons gorgeous!


----------



## Laurelin

Aw thanks!  They're really good little dogs. I know I sound like a broken record but I really do think they're just a great breed.

My two have converted my agility teacher into a papillon lover. Especially Summer, who gets baby talked all the time. The head trainer came by our first nosework class to tell me how my trainer loves my dogs and how she'd never wanted a small dog before. lol

Crystal looks like such a good dog. She has that responsible look like Summer does. 

Here's summer's new trick 'Shame on you'.


is by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Not a great photo but I still really like it.


io by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


ix by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

I never posted this one on this thread either lol


weirdo by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Laurelin

Here's a few favorites from the last few weeks. I think I've posted some of these before.


DSC_1456 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Hairy blob


DSC_1466 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Lol


DSC_1438 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1677 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1638 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1560 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1561 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1344 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


lols by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1620 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Laurelin

3 more (I swear I'll stop!)


DSC_1551 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


Miarun by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1719 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Crantastic

The zoo animals were interested in Crystal today.

Baby llama:










Capybaras:










Here's a close-up of the capybaras:


----------



## Avery

Mumble looking classy for Thanksgiving.



















I made the tie from one I picked up at goodwill.


----------



## Catdancer

Haha!! I love this thread! Mumble looks so dignified and eloquent.


----------



## Avery

I know! I just love his tie. He wears it well and it only cost 99 cents. I might try to find a red and white or red and green one for Christmas.


----------



## lucidity

Wow, his ears have really GROWN!!! Love the fringe. 

Here's a newish picture of Lennon:


----------



## Avery

Lennon has such a pretty face! A really handsome dog.



lucidity said:


> Wow, his ears have really GROWN!!! Love the fringe.


Oh yeah, he's got fringe all over the place these days. It's actually starting to get in the way sometimes, lol. I love it.


----------



## lucidity

Thanks!! I can't wait for him to get here.. time goes by too slowly!

You know, too much is better than none.. LOL.. I gave up on Cadence growing fringe a looong time ago.


----------



## Catdancer

OMG Lennon is gorgeous!! He also looks like he will have great fringe. My pap is now 9 months old and his coat is filling out nicely and he's FINALLY getting good ear fringe. It seems like it takes forever for their coats and fringe to grow!


----------



## lucidity

Thanks!! Yes I certainly hope so *fingers crossed*. His sire has AMAZING fringe but his dam, not really.. and he's so red, so am really hoping that he will still have fluffy ears anyway 

Fringe in Paps takes SO long to grow! I love looking at growing up pics--it shows how much their ears grow. By 3-4 years old, they finally have their long, thick coats and nice, long ears, but before that they look kinda sad.. lol


----------



## Crantastic

She went partway up that tree after the squirrel!


----------



## Leaf

Hello! I just recently got my first papillon pup after years and years of adoration for the breed. 
This is Indiana. <3 He is about 2 1/2 months old and I love everything about him.
























(The little Yorkie-Doxie-Maltese mix is Gooby!)


----------



## Daenerys

Here is Legend, traumatized by me forcing him to wear a giant hat for my own amusement.


LegendChristmas2012_3 by Legend_of_Faolan, on Flickr


----------



## taquitos

OMG The expression on Legend's face is priceless!!

And so many cute paps on here... *sigh* I wish I could have one of my own <3


----------



## jdudziak

So we ended up getting a second Papillon over the weekend. Bandit came from the shelter but now here is a funny question the new one has very good breeding and now I am wondering if maybe bandit isn't full pap. (not that it matters to me) I spoke to some people locally and they think he is. I know they can look quite a bit different. So I thought I would ask you all what you thought. Bandit is about 15 months old. Our new little guy is 3 yrs old. 

Masha (our Jack Russell) & our new little guy











Our Clan











Bandit making sure he doesn't get left behind











Our new little guy


----------



## Avery

Oh my gosh! I love the new guy! Does he have a name yet?

I think part of what makes Bandit look so different is that he has a lot of white on his face, and not a lot of fringe. _Maybe_ his ears are a little different in size/shape. It's hard to tell.


----------



## jdudziak

We have been asked not to share his name at this point as he is a retiring show dog. I think (hope) Bandits ears still might be coming in and the new little guy is about half the size of Bandit. Which I think makes a difference.


----------



## jdudziak

Ok so here are more pictures of Bandit and our new little guy, Tucker.

all my babies together










Bandit sitting pretty










Pics of Tucker



















Just Cute pic of Bandit and Tucker


----------



## Leaf

Indy is growing into his marshmallow fur.


----------



## Crantastic

Sometimes I call Crystal "triangle head" when she does stuff like this. It makes her head look so wedge-shaped!

Her face has also lightened up a lot since I got her. She's only six. Her grandmother's face really lightened as she aged, too. This is her grandmother at age 11 or 12:


----------



## lucidity

I really like that red dogs don't look quite as bad when their hair goes all frosty! Do you know when Crystal's grandma started frosting? I know of a couple of Paps & Cavaliers who have gone frosty at only 3-5 yrs old. Way too young!


----------



## Crantastic

I don't know! She was very dark as a young dog... she was kind of fading when she was around six years old, I think, back when I got Crystal. I didn't get any pics back then, though. If you look on the breeder's site, there are pics of her at different stages.


----------



## Laurelin

Beau is sooo gray. He started turning grey around 3 or so. summer is a little bit grey but she's so light you can't really tell until you compare photos.


----------



## Daenerys

Legend is turning 10 this year and I haven't found a gray hair on him yet! Anything that looks gray in the photo is actually just a mix of black and white hairs when you look closer. I am wondering how he will age once he starts getting older.


----------



## Avery

Happy Birthday Legend! How is his neck doing?


----------



## Daenerys

Well his birthday isn't until May 15th but he says thank you, haha. His birthday is just 2 days after mine! His neck is doing fine, but his bladder stone, though removed, is still being a pain in the butt. I had to put him on science diet prescription diet but its not really agreeing with him so I don't know what to do now.


----------



## Avery

I re-read your post and realized what you were saying. I need to be a more careful reader. :b

Maybe you could find a similar food of a different brand? Just throwing out an idea. I'm not a vet. Hope he feels better. Feel better Legend!


----------



## Daenerys

Actually I might have found the problem. The vet said if I feed the dry food I should add some water to it, but the past two meals I have not added the water and the diarrhea and vomiting has stopped. I think he might have actually been getting too much water!


----------



## pinkeye714

Aww well this is cole at 5 months. I don't think he is growing in this puff yet aha
















also luna my 4 year old girl. Who is still overweight.


----------



## Avery

Adorable! I love them when they're at that stage when all their fur sticks out in different directions. Mumble was 11 months old when we got him, so I never got that puppy pap experience.

Luna is lovely too.


----------



## Laurelin

I have puppy fever so bad! Ugh!


----------



## Laurelin

Annual photo:


DSC_1343 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Laurelin

Most rotten dog ever.


DSC_1344 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Avery

I always love the group shots. Seeing so many Paps in one place. 

And Mia makes the best faces.


----------



## Daenerys

I would love another papillon. I got Legend when he was a year old so I never experienced a puppy papillon. When we get to a place in our lives when we can afford a puppy from a breeder I will likely get another one! But that will probably be many years down the road. There's no way I am bringing in a tiny puppy with young, energetic Faolan. He'd squish it on accident. It'll have to be when he is getting old.


----------



## Laurelin

Nextdog isn't going to be a papillon. And dog after nextdog probably won't be either. But I doubt I'll ever be without a papillon or two.


----------



## Avery

I would like another Papillon, but 2 dogs is a no-go right now.

So instead I'm very subtly trying to convince my parents that they want a Papillon.


----------



## Whistlejacket

Can... can my possible papillon mix join the papillon club?


----------



## Crantastic

Looks enough like a papillon to me! Why do you say mix? How big is your dog?


----------



## Avery

Papillon mixes are welcome!



Crantastic said:


> Looks enough like a papillon to me! Why do you say mix? How big is your dog?


Believe it or not, that dog's mother is a confirmed Maltese/Poodle. Check out Whistlejacket's thread about it.


----------



## Whistlejacket

Crantastic said:


> Looks enough like a papillon to me! Why do you say mix? How big is your dog?


Avery is right.  Luna weighs a little under 11 lbs, by the way.


----------



## Crantastic

That's crazy talk.  Like Laurelin said in that thread, I would definitely have believed pure papillon if you'd said so. She's cute!


----------



## Whistlejacket

Crantastic said:


> That's crazy talk.  Like Laurelin said in that thread, I would definitely have believed pure papillon if you'd said so. She's cute!


Haha, her parentage puzzles everyone, myself included. I do agree that she's cute, though! She's so fun, too. She is clever and has tons of antics. When we don't want to play fetch with her (her tennis ball is the thing she loves most in the world right after my dad and off-leash hikes), she takes said ball in her mouth, puts it on her back and lets it roll down it before catching it. She can go on for a long time doing that, too. It's hilarious.


----------



## pinkeye714

awwww Your papillon mix is adorable!
I have a feeling my Luna is also a mix. 
she stands at 11.5 inchs and weighs 10.5lbs. 
i trimmed her fur, her skirt does not lay flat. it flares out after she was shaved so i just get rid of it.


----------



## Laurelin

Luna doesn't look like a mix to me. What makes you think she is?


----------



## Whistlejacket

pinkeye714 said:


> awwww Your papillon mix is adorable!
> I have a feeling my Luna is also a mix.
> she stands at 11.5 inchs and weighs 10.5lbs.
> i trimmed her fur, her skirt does not lay flat. it flares out after she was shaved so i just get rid of it.


I think you have good tastes in names ;D Your Luna looks purebred to me, though.


----------



## pinkeye714

Laurelin said:


> Luna doesn't look like a mix to me. What makes you think she is?


Well she is pretty tall for a pap and she used to weigh 14lbs. I could not feel her ribs then. And now that she weights 10-11 I can feel them. I don't think she will get any skinner. Also when I look at her face, it seems a little less feminine and petite. I don't know. I doubt her purebred ness. My mother got her for me and My mother is not the greatest of researchers go as far as dogs. 
I know the only other dogs the breeder bred was Yorkies but I doubt she is that.


----------



## Whistlejacket

pinkeye714 said:


> Also when I look at her face, it seems a little less feminine and petite.


From the pictures you posted, I actually think her face looks pretty delicate and very pap-ish. She has the trademark ears, too


----------



## pinkeye714

Whistlejacket said:


> From the pictures you posted, I actually think her face looks pretty delicate and very pap-ish. She has the trademark ears, too


Ahah! I feel the same way about your Luna! 
Let's trade for a day. Like pokemon. Thank you! 
I love that your Luna has no white in the middle. I want a black papillon. Well half papillon then since they don't come in all black lol I love black dogs.


----------



## Laurelin

I would bet lots of money she is purebred. 10-11 lbs is well within standard. My summer is 8 lbs, her mother was around 10 lbs. Your dog's face and ears look very papillon.

Beau's got a much broader head. He's also an AKC champion.


DSC_0124 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Whistlejacket

pinkeye714 said:


> I love that your Luna has no white in the middle.


Well, she DOES have a few white hairs in the middle of her forehead... xD You can see it in this picture.










(To be perfectly honest I'm mostly looking for excuses to post pictures of my little girl xD)

And sure, let's trade!


----------



## Laurelin

Welp, Mia now has no ear fringe.


----------



## wishiwas

Oh, no! What happened?


----------



## Laurelin

*Sigh* 


http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/131538-now-mia-has-no.html

Should I try to even it out?


----------



## jdudziak

Oh no. That happened to bandit in October had to hack off 1/3 of his tail hair. It still doesn't look quite right but I think it will grow back. He had dozens in his tail and it was also so bad that he couldn't put it down. It will grow back.


----------



## Laurelin

She had so many in her tail that her tail was 'glued' to her butt with burrs. I had to hack off a lot of her tail fur too.


----------



## jdudziak

I'm so sorry Mia. When we were up by my moms she has the Amish come visit in the front yard so everytime they went out someone would be rolling in horse apples. So I thought I got smart and took them out back. Nope was a worse fate as he was covered in burrs and with there fine hair it was impossible to get them all out. I was able to brush them down some and then had to cut them out. It really sucked. I am glad they were just in his tail. I so feel your pain but it should grow back maybe even better than it was.


----------



## jdudziak

Well here are a few new pictures of my paps. 

Tucker Love this pic we got him in January and he is 3









My Boys Tucker & Bandit


----------



## Whistlejacket

Batman is adorable!  I love his name, it's hilarious (in a good way, since pap ears always make me think of bat ears). I really like his markings. Did you get him from a breeder?


----------



## Laurelin

He is very cute! What training problems are you having with him? Generally the breed is exceptionally trainable. I've taught mine lots of different things.


----------



## Crantastic

Oh, Laurelin, while I'm thinking of it... I was talking to Crystal's breeder the other day. She just had Dipper neutered to go to his new home, so I asked her if it's common for pap coats to change after a neuter. She said she hasn't seen it, although she doesn't know a lot of neutered male papillons. She thought it would likely be caused by the anesthesia, though... she's seen anesthesia change human hair and make it more brittle.


----------



## Roakwood

I have three little paps  I'll have to put some pictures up this afternoon! I just LOVE the breed


----------



## Roakwood

Our oldest pap is Phoebe (tri with the pin stripe). She is just starting to grow some coat back in, and her ear fringing is practically nonexistent thanks to her puppy siblings. She is very petite, about nine inches tall and usually around three and half pounds. Very picky eater. She isn't the brightest of my crew, but she is certainly the boss and toughest. She isn't very active either; a day lounging on pillows is greatly preferred over a walk. She was finally spayed about a month ago by a specialist. She was a very high risk patient and our normal vet didn't want to do it. She was in heat practically all the time, her cycles very erratic and close together. Luckily we no longer have that problem! However, she did get quite naked.

Next is Troy (hound tri), 11 months old, 10.5" tall and hangs right around 6lbs. He is currently being shown, finished his UKC Ch. and is the king of reserves in AKC. This little guy is a genius and always keeps me on my toes. He is also very active and enjoys his toys, loves fetch and going hiking. He is also very serious about many things, not super cuddly unless he's very tired. He was the easiest dog I've ever had to housebreak. Troy is a friendly little guy, loves people but is a bit nervous around new dogs (when he was a little pup he was downright terrified of other dogs, with a lot of work we made a ton of progress with that). He doesn't bark much at all, but boy is he a whiner. 

Then we have baby Cora (white/sable), only four months old, and currently 8" tall and 3.5lbs. She will be shown when she is old enough as well. She is very brave and very friendly with everyone and everything. She is fun, goofy, smart, and cuddly. I am in love with her and can't wait to see how she matures! 

I love these guys! They pack so much personality and character into tiny packages. Mine are very willing to please and very pleasant dogs to live with.


----------



## Whistlejacket

What a crew!  I'm kinda jealous. Troy is absolutely beautiful.


----------



## Aussie27

So many new Papillons since I last visited! Not many people will probably remember Cali, but she's nearly two and this thread was what convinced me to give the breed a shot. Primarily, it was all the stories about Mia, Nia and all the others who were shared on this thread.


----------



## SydTheSpaniel

palla102 said:


> Thank you! No, I didn't get him from a breeder. I had no intention of getting a dog until about next year, when my life would be more stable, but then when I found him I just had to get him. I was shopping with a friend at the mall and we passed a dog store. We stopped by to look at the puppies. Now, I am against most pet-stores (especially in the mall because of the bad reputation they have) and Batman was in cage that was marked 'Clearance'. He was priced at $300. They store employee told us that he was getting older and that if he didn't sell soon, they were going to have to get rid of him. I don't know if that is true or not, but the fact that he was priced so cheap made me think that it was. The place was Barkworks and they have a class-action lawsuit against them that they lost. Most of the stores in OC are closing down. They gave me his papers and it says that he is from a breeder, but I'm not sure if I believe that. Puppy mill or breeder, either way I did not want him to die. Barkworks has a Vet on their payroll and all of the dog shelters in orange county are full (I know this because I visit them often). As shady as Barkworks is, I figured that they would euthanize him because it would be cheaper than finding a shelter that would accept him. I could be completely wrong and at the end of the day, I really don't know what would have happened to him. I hate that I'm perpetuating the problem with puppy-mills (if that is, in fact, where he is from), but I didn't want to take that chance. So, I got him.
> Of course I googled the breeder that was listed on his paperwork and I actually found her... the only thing that came up under the search results was a facebook profile, which I had limited access to since I wasn't her friend. Part of me wants to send her an email to see if she is a breeder and if Batman was bred under humane conditions, but another part of me doesn't want to know. The only thing that truly matters to me is if he had a bad life before me, I just want to make sure that I can make him as happy as possible from now on. A little long-winded response, I know


I'm also very against pet stores, but after reading your story. It honestly sounds like you rescued him rather than really contribute to the store. I mean... you did give them money, but if it meant his life was saved - then very good on you! It's unfortunate how so many places like that have such dark backgrounds. As long as he is happy, and healthy, and you recognize the reputation and issue that pet stores cause, then I don't see anything wrong with it. He was rescued from a bad situation, just like all of those dogs in shelters waiting for homes. Pet store or shelter, he was a rescue!


----------



## Crantastic

I feel compelled to post the I Consider Him a Rescue! link. He was not a rescue.

That said, what's done is done, and I'm glad you're going to give him a great home. Just don't fall for that sales technique in the future.


----------



## wishiwas

A belly band would at least keep the pee out of your house until he's trustworthy. I had to use one while house training Smokie.

I had the worst time trying to get Smokie to eat a decent amount, too. He weighed I think 7 lbs when we brought him home at 8 months. Now he weighs 10. Granted, part of that was him filling out a little, but it was just skin over his ribs and hip bones. I don't really have any kibble suggestions. We had to mix in canned and warm water and he still was ify on eating it. What finally got him eating with enthusiasm was switching to prey model raw.


----------



## Laurelin

So many posts! I'll catch up in a little bit. Here's some pics of our trip today. I love my two pappy girls.

Me and my shadows:


DSC_1796 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1573 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1439 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1435 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1427 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


DSC_1351 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


29 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


31 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


27 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


21 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## beretw

Crantastic said:


> I feel compelled to post the I Consider Him a Rescue! link. He was not a rescue.
> 
> That said, what's done is done, and I'm glad you're going to give him a great home. Just don't fall for that sales technique in the future.


That was a fantastic read, thank you.

Bookmarked!


----------



## Roakwood

My papillon, Phoebe, is also a terrible eater. I'm constantly told how skinny she is (as if I am trying to starve her). She is thin, but most people are also so used to fat dogs that a healthy dog seems too skinny. My others will eat anything. Phoebe was on dog food before I got her and I switched her to raw. Made no difference. She just doesn't eat much. Ironically she was also difficult to house train. She wasn't too bad to crate train, Troy was a nightmare (still occasionally goes through spurts of screaming/howling), and Cora was very easy. 

Have you ever used an exercise pen at all? I think they're great for house breaking- makes it much easier to keep a tiny pap in your view and you can control the area of potential accidents much easier. Also keeping them on a leash in the house helps with potty training and enforcing commands. If you haven't already, establish a routine and stick to it. Set times for eating, crating, playing, and trips outside. I'm sure others will have plenty of other ideas and tips for you! What kind of problems are you having with walking him?


----------



## Whistlejacket

Laurelin said:


> 29 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


I love Summer's ears in this picture. They look like they entirely consist of a thick layer or hair!


----------



## MimiAzura

palla102 said:


> When the people I got him from called to check up on him a couple weeks later, they asked me his name and I told them. I'm not sure if they liked it, but they did say it was unique. I was surprised because I had assumed maybe someone had been calling him 'Batman' and that's why he responded, but they assured me that this was not the case.


I don't understand this part of your first post after reading that you got him from a pet store.. 
Especially because they were going to "get rid of him" why would they be ringing to check up on him?


----------



## Leaf

It's been a while since I posted here!
Thought I'd post an updated shot of Indy. 
He'll be 8 months old this month!


----------



## Whistlejacket

A few oldies.

She had been digging trying to catch the mole that was ruining our garden (she never succeeded)










A cold November morning


----------



## Laurelin

Trying to revive this thread! Come on guys! 

Summer doing what Summer does.


phone4 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Mia and Her Favorite Ball.


ball by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

I keep trying to explain to her that Favorite Ball may need to go away soon. I also keep trying to explain why Favorite Ball no longer bounces.


ball1 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## lucidity

Hmm.. guess I've been away for a while! Anyway, here are some pics of Lennon (he's been here for 2 months):



He's been to a couple of shows, and has 2CCs currently. I think he has pretty awesome ears, for a 14 month old





And one of Cadence:



And.. uh.. call me crazy, but I'm importing another show Pap from Europe. Just couldn't resist how lovely he is (and his awesome pedigree). He'll be arriving in a couple of weeks! Thinking I'll name him Dalton.







And some of Lyra, so she doesn't feel left out


----------



## Whistlejacket

So many paps! I love all of your pooches, Lucidity  and Mia and Summer are as beautiful as ever!


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## Wooe

I've been lurking on this thread off and on now for almost half a year, whilst waiting for my little girl. Now it is almost finally time tho, assuming all goes well with the vet check-up sometime this week, I'll pick her up in 10 days :cheer2:

Anyways, here she is at 5 1/2 weeks old (she looks all innocent, but I have a sneaking suspicion that her mommy might have had an affair with a piranha).


----------



## Whistlejacket

Wooe said:


> I've been lurking on this thread off and on now for almost half a year, whilst waiting for my little girl. Now it is almost finally time tho, assuming all goes well with the vet check-up sometime this week, I'll pick her up in 10 days :cheer2:
> 
> Anyways, here she is at 5 1/2 weeks old (she looks all innocent, but I have a sneaking suspicion that her mommy might have had an affair with a piranha).


Congrats on your new puppyllon!  She is stinking cute, I want to smooch her little nose. What's her name?


----------



## Laurelin

Not bad for a little 9 year old papillon on her first time out!


Q2 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## Wooe

Whistlejacket said:


> Congrats on your new puppyllon!  She is stinking cute, I want to smooch her little nose. What's her name?


I'm not 100% certain yet, but provisionally at least she will be called Leia.
I did get to choose her 'official' name, but it's not really something I can see myself using as a daily name


----------



## Whistlejacket

Laurelin said:


> Not bad for a little 9 year old papillon on her first time out!
> 
> 
> Q2 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


Summer rocks! Papillons in general seem to age very well, don't they? My Luna will be nine in october, and she hasn't slowed down at all.


----------



## Laurelin

Most the paps I know have aged very well. Summer's mom and grandma both lived past 15 and were very active up to 13-14. I am in denial that Summer is getting older though.

Summer sleeps more than she used to when we're not doing stuff. But she's still extremely active and pretty fast for such a small dog (obviously a little slower than she used to be). I'm hoping to keep her as active as possible for as long as possible. We hike all the time and she has no problems keeping up. Got a few grey hairs though and now has grey eyelashes.


----------



## Whistlejacket

It's never easy to see them grow old... Luna only very recently started greying, and I don't like it. But Summer is the BEST little old lady!


----------



## tillypap

I've got too many pictures of Tilly so I'll just keep it to a minimum! Here's a link to the album to keep it tidy 
http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/tillypap/library/


----------



## Whistlejacket

tillypap said:


> I've got too many pictures of Tilly so I'll just keep it to a minimum! Here's a link to the album to keep it tidy
> http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/tillypap/library/


Tilly is SO pretty! I just love her little white muzzle.


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## tillypap

Whistlejacket said:


> Tilly is SO pretty! I just love her little white muzzle.


Thanks so much  it's so hard to get photos of her because she never stays still for long enough!


----------



## Laurelin

Very pretty! I love the black and white paps!


----------



## Whistlejacket

Luna is a great ratter!


----------



## Leaf

New Indy pics. :3


----------



## Whistlejacket

Luna got a new harness!



















I love all the pictures of Indy. Such a pretty pap!


----------



## zack

I don't have one but I think they are gorgeous. LOL


----------



## Wooe

Whoever said that time flies, was surely right... I can't believe that I've had Leia for a month already. She's such a sweet little biting maniac. 

A day or two after getting them, Leia on the right and her sister Mitzy, who lives with my parents, on the left:










Puppy chasing (they are bloody quick, dunno how many pics I have with only half a puppy on them) 










Fluid refill between chases:










"This is *my* stick, get your own!"










Starting puppy class on Wednesday, have a feeling we are gonna need it


----------



## Whistlejacket

Leia is the cutest puppy EVER. There, I said it!


----------



## Laurelin

I want a puppy! Oh so cute!

Here is a good pap.


zsummer by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## mashlee08

I am gonna have a Pap one day, I love them! Especially black and whites.


----------



## Crantastic

Not a great photo due to it being dark in here, but I think Crystal looks so cute when she does this:


----------



## Michiyo-Fir

Nia does that too! Only when she mopes that I'm not throwing her ball or something though hehe.

I haven't been on for sooo long. A few pics. Can't believe how much time flies, Nia's going to be 5 in November...

Pic-spam.

















Edit: 1 last one. This is one of my favorite photos of her ever.


----------



## Crantastic

Aww, I just love her. Did you know that her breeder got one of Crystal's breeder's pups recently? His name is Frodo and he is doing amazing. They think he has a really bright future ahead of him. Here's a photo.

I took Crystal to an AKK meetup on Sunday. It was eight AKK and her. She was unimpressed.

Watching the other dogs from her perch on the chair:










Getting tired and bored:










She also tried to beat up one of the male AKK when he got in her face. She's a tough little thing and she fights dirty -- tries to knock their front legs out from under them.


----------



## Abbylynn

I love these little Paps! They have the sweetest little faces and eyes. I haven't been on this thread for a while ... but was wondering if Nia and Mia are related? They resemble each other sooo much!


----------



## Crantastic

Nia and Crystal are actually related!


----------



## Abbylynn

Crantastic said:


> Nia and Crystal are actually related!


OK!  ........... Thanks! Are most Paps ball crazy?


----------



## Indigo

99 Pages of paps! Congrats on taking over the forum, guys. Yeesh. 

I love that pic of Nia with the giant nose. 
Wet papillons also make great pics, lol!


----------



## Crantastic

Most of the papillons I know are ball-crazy. Crystal loves to chase the ball and will jump up and grab it out of the air. Nia and Mia both do the same thing. When I visit Crystal's breeder, if I throw the ball, the entire pack of papillons tears down the hall after it. It's usually little Paige who gets it, though.


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## Laurelin

Of our 5, 3 play ball. Mia is the only one that is obsessive about it. The boys will play a while then get tired. Mia would chase the ball all day long.

Mia and Nia are not related at all.


----------



## Crantastic

Speaking of playing ball... Crystal wants someone to throw hers again:


----------



## Laurelin

I'm working on a project where I gather up some of Mia's best expressions.


group1 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Haven't got very far yet.


glasses2 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

That dog is my heart. <3


----------



## Whistlejacket

Laurelin, may I ask what camera you use?


----------



## Laurelin

I have a Nikon D90 now. Would like to upgrade but probably not for a couple years since I'm trying to buy a house and a puppy in the next year-year and a half.


----------



## songare

Thank you all for this thread!

I got my own Pap a couple of months ago, and he seemed to be loosing hair from his legs and belly and is now creeping up his sides. After searching around the internet and these forums, I'm sure it's just "puppy ulgys". My vet thought it might be a form of mites, but everything I read didn't seem to apply to him.

Daz (full name is Dazarro of Stormwind) is now 18 weeks.

This was taken a few days before I got him, about 8 weeks old.


10 weeks









11 weeks









12.5 weeks









14.5 week, you can start to see the loss of hair on his legs here.









17 weeks, you can see through to his skin on his shoulder (the spots there).









17 weeks again, showing off the black he still has. It's mainly on the edge of his ears, middle of his back and base of his tail.


----------



## Laurelin

Ahhhh so precious! The second one especially is not helping my puppy fever!


----------



## Wooe

Finally had a chance yesterday to go through last month's or so of pictures.... Little Leia has now passed the milestone of 4 months old, looking at pics from the first few weeks and I can barely recognize her. 

Almost 15 weeks old, practicing her balance skills. 










Leia impersonating Jack-in-the-box-in-the-flower-bed. 










Oki mommie, I can show off my harness... 










...but only if I can show off my ball too! 



















Somehow she seems to always have something in her mouth. If it isn't a chewie-bone... 










...then it is a toy... 










...or, lacking that, a leaf. 










When those get boring, how about trying to chew on sister instead? 










Summer is starting to run out, so gotta lap up the sun whilst one can. 









Now I've run out of allowed pictures, and Leia wants us to go to bed, so will have to do for now.


----------



## Whistlejacket

My goodness... Leia is so cute I can hardly handle it. For real.

Luna got to meet and to play with an actual papillon a few days ago! Sadly, I was not there to witness it, as I am currently abroad for my studies, but my dad snapped this photo of Luna and Gala:










There are actually more but for some reason I can't upload them... oh well.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh my word. That puppy. <3


----------



## Wooe

Leia has turned into a small furry ball in my lap for the moment, so tossing up some more pics. 


Being all sleepy in the sofa:










Sister Mitzy demanded some of her own photo fame too:










She just gotta have something in her mouth:



















Had a bit of fun with this pic, it's what I'd imagine that the poster for some old black and white horror movie aimed at a canine audience might look like (I love how it actually manages to capture Leia's really discrete eyebrow marking too):









Edit: totally forgot these... 

Baby Leia with mom:










Daddy:


----------



## Laurelin

You are not helping my papillon want. I swear, if paps came in a bigger size, I don't think I'd have anything else. They are the BEST dogs. I really want a young pap that I can start in agility as a puppy. There's not enough of them competing around here.


----------



## Crantastic

Paige just had three puppies.


----------



## Laurelin

Don't tell me these things!


----------



## Laurelin

I think it may be highly likely that I end up with a larger Nextdog and a third pap in the next couple years. But shhh don't tell anyone. 

They spoil you though. And to think I said I'd never have a toy breed.


----------



## Wooe

Laurelin said:


> You are not helping my papillon want. I swear, if paps came in a bigger size, I don't think I'd have anything else. They are the BEST dogs. I really want a young pap that I can start in agility as a puppy. There's not enough of them competing around here.


 Leia and Mitzy found the perfect solution for that, I'll try get a picture of it sometime... Basically, you take one Pap, preferably the heaviest one, then you take another Pap on top of it. Not only will this new 'Super-Pap' be a fair bit bigger, it will also come with not one but two wiggly tails, as well as a total of four ears! :-D
Can it get better?


----------



## Whistlejacket

My beautiful girl.


----------



## Wooe

Our baby girls have turned 6 months old now, getting to the point where they can't quite be called babies anymore. Since I seem to have been really sloppy on adding pics, there is a slight risk this will end up a tad picture spammy :redface:

Way back at 4 months old... 

"We conquered this mountain with only a leaf each for assistance!"









Leia being all cute with the mandatory leaf in her mouth. 









Mitzy being a bit goofy. 









"Did you accuses me of poking my nose in the sawdust?"









"I did _not_ poke my nose in the sawdust!"









"I _know_ I saw a treat down there, and now sis ate it."


----------



## Wooe

5 months old. 

Trying out their new shirts. 









"Honestly mommie, are you sure we look cute and not silly?"









"We look cute you say, are you really sure?"









What would life be, without pig ears? 









Starting to look all grown up. 









"Can I sit in your lap? Pwease?"









One of Mitzy's favourite things to do... Pull the Leia tail. 









"But mommie, it was Mitzy that peed in grannies bed, don't you know collective punishment is wrong?"










Out of curiosity, those of you with female paps, when did they have their first season and what signs did they give? Leia is my first female dog, but we are sorta suspecting that it's starting to close in. Both are extremely sniffy outside, every marked lamp post etc has to be meticulously investigated, they sniff each other, appetite has gone way downhill, and Leia has gotten quite clingy indoors and very insecure outdoors. Bunch of other small little changes, but since they just got out of a period of serious weirdness while teething, it's hard to say what came from what.


----------



## littlesoprano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tG6zbTZLhI

Someone sent me that video, and I couldn't help but think of this thread!


----------



## Laurelin

Mia was spayed prior to her first season and was spayed at 11 months old. The other two girls were adults when we got them.

I love that video. They're hilarious dogs.


----------



## lucidity

Wooe said:


> Out of curiosity, those of you with female paps, when did they have their first season and what signs did they give? Leia is my first female dog, but we are sorta suspecting that it's starting to close in. Both are extremely sniffy outside, every marked lamp post etc has to be meticulously investigated, they sniff each other, appetite has gone way downhill, and Leia has gotten quite clingy indoors and very insecure outdoors. Bunch of other small little changes, but since they just got out of a period of serious weirdness while teething, it's hard to say what came from what.


5 months is reeaalllyy early for a Pap to come in season. Do you know anything about her mother? They usually take after their mothers and grandmothers. 5 months is that "fear" age, though IMO.. mine are generally outgoing before then, and at around 5-6 months start to get fearful of strangers, etc. The Paps I know come into season at around 8-9 months old.


----------



## Bliss

sorry for highjacking this thread but my question is papillon related and I thought this was the best thread to ask......anyway, anyone know anything about Katshe papillons or Sherjak papillons? Those are the 2 breeders I've been in contact with 
thanks!


----------



## Firestorm

MissMutt said:


> Same
> 
> I don't have a Papillion so I'll just sit back and watch y'all post your cuties..










What she said!


----------



## Laurelin

I don't know anything about those two breeders at all, sorry.

You should definitely get a pap though. They're awesome.


----------



## DancingPapillion

I love all the stories and pictures of these beautiful Papillons. I have one girl named Poppy, that I adopted when she was 8 yrs.old..she was a former "showgirl" (retired). I am taking a 2-1/2 year old Pap to keep her company. How do I post pictures? I am new to this site.


----------



## Whistlejacket

DancingPapillion said:


> I love all the stories and pictures of these beautiful Papillons. I have one girl named Poppy, that I adopted when she was 8 yrs.old..she was a former "showgirl" (retired). I am taking a 2-1/2 year old Pap to keep her company. How do I post pictures? I am new to this site.


Welcome to DogForums, fellow Pap enthusiast! There are several ways to post pictures. You can include them in the body of your post by using a hosting website like Tinypic, Flickr, Photobucket etc. I personally use Tinypic: http://tinypic.com/. I know some posters also attach their photos to their posts, though I don't know how they do it.

Do show us lots of photos of your pups


----------



## DancingPapillion

Will someone that attaches their photos to their reply please tell me how it is done? I tried Photobucket and Tinypic and I am doing something wrong. Many thanks!!


----------



## Wooe

DancingPapillion said:


> Will someone that attaches their photos to their reply please tell me how it is done? I tried Photobucket and Tinypic and I am doing something wrong. Many thanks!!


Not sure where it's going wrong, but what I do is basically, hit reply, choose 'go advanced', and then there is an icon labeled 'Insert Image' (left of filmstrip icon), hit that and paste link to the picture. Not sure if that's any help?


Leia and Mitzy are becomming quite adult now... Weel, Mitzy is at least, she is pretty much done with her first heat now and is turning into some sort of five-fold Dolly Parton  That girl has some bosom now. Leia appears to like puppyhood too much to grow out of it tho, guess she doesn't want the responsibilities of a grown up.

_Leia enjoyin her bad chewies... (She had a session at the vet with gastritis recently, and I suspect these were at least partially behind it, so she isn't getting any more, but I still like the pictures)_


















_Winter time!_




































_Showing off her fringes_









_Mitzy showing Leia how pretty teeth she has_









_Leia showing off herself_


----------



## Whistlejacket

I absolutely love your photos, Wooe! Both Leia and Mitzi are stunning.


----------



## Laurelin

They are gorgeous! Love the tricolors!


----------



## DancingPapillion

Thank you for your reply..I am going to try that and we'll see what happens. Your Papillons are beautiful! You mentioned gastritis....what did your Vet advise you on that? My Poppy (8 yr. old Pap) had what they thought was gastritis after a grooming session (Poppy doesn't like me out of her sight and they think she became very upset when I left her off) A small dose of Pepto Bismol seemed to solve the problem. We are getting our house ready to welcome another Papillon....this one that I am adopting is a 2-1/2 year old girl, another retired "show girl" In your pictures your dogs seem to get along just fine..any pointers on how to make it happen? Anyway, two Papillons are better than one!!


----------



## Bliss

We added an 8 month old papillon girl to our family last night. She's a beautiful black & white, about 11 inches tall (at shoulder) and around 10.5 lbs....so on the bigger side. My yorkie is less than thrilled with her new sister haha. She's been quiet, and friendly and settling in nicely (other than having fleas, and bugging my allergies but that's nothing new). Can't to see her personality develop once she gets used to her new home. Oh, and no name yet


----------



## Wooe

DancingPapillion said:


> Thank you for your reply..I am going to try that and we'll see what happens. Your Papillons are beautiful! You mentioned gastritis....what did your Vet advise you on that? My Poppy (8 yr. old Pap) had what they thought was gastritis after a grooming session (Poppy doesn't like me out of her sight and they think she became very upset when I left her off) A small dose of Pepto Bismol seemed to solve the problem. We are getting our house ready to welcome another Papillon....this one that I am adopting is a 2-1/2 year old girl, another retired "show girl" In your pictures your dogs seem to get along just fine..any pointers on how to make it happen? Anyway, two Papillons are better than one!!


Well, they kept her there for 36 hours first on IV (we were worried about possible blockage at the time), then she went on 2 weeks of some hills science tummy-friendly diet, with Andapsil (Sucralfate) an hour before each meal. It works somewhat differently from pepto-bismol (afaik, they don't sell it here, never looked as it made me gag the one time I tried it), but I would imagine that the end result being similar. Possibly that Andapsil being stronger effect due to being prescription? 

We have pruned down what they get to chew on a fair bit after that, they couldn't say what caused her issues, but some bad chewing was a possibility. As a side effect, I almost got a new Leia too. She had been picky with food for some while and gotten less interested in playing. Well, small dogs are known to be picky, and some dogs gets less playful when growing up, so that's only natural, right? 
It was so gradual and with her maturing... Let's just say I felt like a horrid mommie afterwards, she now eats with good appetite and no squeakies or balls are safe around her anymore. 

As for multi-papping, I think Laurelin would probably be able to give better advice on that, since Mitzy and Leia are sisters from the same litter, they have known each other since they competed over the same nipple. Whilst they don't share a home, they have met almost every day their entire life, so never really had to establish a working relationship. I do hope it will go well tho, they seem like a breed that really benefits from companions on the same level.


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## Laurelin

I have never had two papillons not get along. In fact we've frequently had multiple packs that just met with both intact males and females that could run around together after initial meeting. Worst we've had is two boys that got into a literal p!ssing match when one girl was in heat. They had to wear belly bands but no aggression at all.


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## taquitos

So this Papillon breeder I have been keeping in contact with since two years ago still has one of my favorite pups from her last litter available.

Ughhhh I WANT HIM.


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## Laurelin

Omg he's gorgeous!


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## taquitos

And just for fun, the breeder's pick from the same litter 

Lanaudière Time To Please AKA Léonie


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## taquitos

Guys.... THIS BREEDER NEEDS TO STOP WITH THE CUTENESS.

Ethan, available from her latest litter  Why can't I get a second dog?!?!


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## Chichan

I had no idea Papillion puppies were such little fluff balls :3 !
I've always loved Papillions, they are beautiful dogs.
Smart and full of life too.
I've never met one in real life before,
but I would consider one as a pet maybe one day.


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## Kicks

A few months ago;


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