# Hubby and I - huge disagreements about crating



## Viantha (Aug 12, 2014)

Hi guys, 

So after much deliberation we decided to get a crate for our Sammy which arrived today, and he is now sitting in it and whining quite a bit.

My husband is in HUGE disagreement about this. He is making me feel incredibly guilty, and says we are caging him, it is unfair and I am being cruel. 

Please help me out here! I love my dog with all my heart, but I am close to tears, I have no idea what to do here!


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Whining in the beginning is normal, he's just not used to it and is a baby. My dog likes her crate and will often go in on her own during the day. Lots of dogs like having their own space or 'den'. I also prefer a dog to at least be used to a crate for situations where they need to be crated (like at the vet or when boarded) in order to not add additional stress to them in an already stressful situation.

If you don't want to crate him forever/he is safe to be left uncrated, then you certainly don't have to. It is helpful for potty training and will get it done more quickly. You can certainly potty train without a crate as well, but it will take more work and vigilance on your part (and your husband's).


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## Cattledogfanatic (Sep 18, 2011)

Is that a retreiver puppy? Just ask him if he wants his house standing when he gets back. It also makes house breaking so much easier.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Personally, if I ever get another puppy I will not put him/her in a crate while I'm home and able to supervise. I just won't. But as for keeping the puppy safe when nobody is home (or I'm in the shower or otherwise can't supervise), I don't really see a lot of options here. I guess you could puppyproof a small room (that's what I did for previous puppies, but there was still some damage, and I now understand the risk to the puppy from chewing walls/flooring/etc.) or get a larger pen, but it really all comes down to the same concept---confining the puppy when unsupervised so he/she doesn't get hurt. What alternatives does your husband think would be better?


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

There are crate training methods (look for Kikopup's video or buy Susan Garret's Crate Games dvd - it's good for more than just crate training) that help the dog enjoy being in his crate. Training your dog to see his crate as a special place where wonderful things might happen is a huge help.

You may also want to remind your husband that there may come a time when your dog needs to be crated. Examples include
- staying at the vet
- traveling / hotel stays / visiting family or friends
- injury that requires crate rest
- participation in a sport or activity that requires crating (e.g., we're going to camp and dogs are not permitted to run loose or enter the dining room; since I need to eat, Katie will be crated)
- keep puppy (or older dog) safe from ingesting dangerous items
- emergency evacuations, some shelters will take dogs only if they are crated


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

cookieface said:


> There are crate training methods (look for Kikopup's video or buy Susan Garret's Crate Games dvd - it's good for more than just crate training) that help the dog enjoy being in his crate. Training your dog to see his crate as a special place where wonderful things might happen is a huge help.
> 
> You may also want to remind your husband that there may come a time when your dog needs to be crated. Examples include
> - *staying at the vet*
> ...


ALL OF THIS! I highlighted two major things in particular. As mentioned in your other thread, since you plan to fly the dog at a later point, having him comfortable in a crate will be invaluable to his physical and mental health. 

My male dog Chester isn't crate trained. I adopted him at about 1.5 years old and I did at the time get a crate. He was absolutely panicked by it (and other small spaces) so I didn't continue attempting to crate train because he was a house-trained adult that is non-destructive. But since then, it has somewhat limited things and been an occasional issue. For example, when we went on a family vacation and of course he was coming with us, we had to search high and low for a rental cabin that would not only accept an 80 lbs dog but NOT require him to be crated if we weren't there. We lucked out and found an amazing place but there were probably 50 dog-friendly options that would have worked if he could have been crated and ONE place that didn't require it.

When he had to have ear surgery and he had to be kenneled (large built in crate, not a kennel run) at the vet's office before and after the procedure while he recovered from the anesthetics, I was lucky enough to have a friend working as a vet tech who sat with him the entire afternoon to keep him calm in the kennel. Any other vet office or if she wasn't available to sit that whole time, he could have injured himself panicking in the kennel or had other complications after surgery.

Whereas my dog Eva who I got a year ago, also as an adult, I made the effort to crate train her even though she is perfectly house trained and non-destructive also. She loves to hang out in her cozy den, when we visit friends who have a dog that isn't good with other dogs then she can be crated when needed to keep everyone safe and calm, in the future she could be crated no problem while travelling/at vets/ etc, and when we do visit friends and family, she has a space that she knows is "hers" and she can retreat to if she feels unsure in a new location.


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## Cooper33 (Dec 21, 2013)

You are not being unfair or cruel...you're being smart. My boy is 10 months old, and he stays in his crate at night & when I leave the house. There is no way I would trust him not to chew something up. And his crate is a happy place. He gets treats & kongs in there, plus there's a fan blowing on him & a comfy bed (sure, he chewed up the bed, but it's still in there for him to use).


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## Sunak (Jul 3, 2014)

You are being unfair and cruel. Your husband is right about putting your dog in a cage.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

Sunak said:


> You are being unfair and cruel. Your husband is right about putting your dog in a cage.


Disagree big time! All of my dogs are crate trained. Doesn't mean they are in their crates 24/7. It means they are in their crates when I need them to be safely confined. They nap when they are in their crates. Should an emergency arise, they will have this much needed trained behavior.

Cookieface's post should be enough to convince your husband. Crate training isn't punishment. It is a learned behavior. Dogs who have been crate trained don't mind being in their crates.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sunak said:


> You are being unfair and cruel. Your husband is right about putting your dog in a cage.


A dog who is comfortable in a crate will sleep and relax and barely notice they are confined. A puppy who is not crated (or
otherwise safely contained; a crate being one of the most practical and secure options for that) may ingest something dangerous or deadly, may panic if required to be crated at a vets or on an airplane, may injure himself if loose while home repairs etc are done; etc etc

Over crating is cruel. The foster I got who had been crated 22/24 hrs daily? That was cruel. My crating her while I was gone for work? That kept her from dying of things like eating the door frame or from ripping up her face on the exposed nails after she shredded the wood. 

My dog Eva often CHOOSES to rest in her open crate even when she has a sofa and a rug available to her. My shutting the crate door to keep her safe for a few hours here and there is something she barely notices


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I wouldn't want to fly a dog that wasn't comfortable in a crate. Imagine how stressed it would be. As others have mentioned, even if you don't plan to crate the dog regularly throughout its life, it's good for it to be used to the crate for travelling, vet trips, emergencies, whatever. Over-crating is bad. Properly crating is good.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I'll make a rough analogy here-

We ask schoolchildren to sit at their desks in one place for several hours at a time, usually up to 7-8 hrs in total for the day with a few breaks and a short lunch. Young children have a ton of energy and in general, would really rather be running around and exploring their world. However, adults have decided that the benefits of schooling outweigh the negatives of being confined to a desk. (Not looking to get into a debate on schooling vs unschooling etc, just acknowledging the reality in much of the world)

Along the same thought process, dog owners may confine their puppies or some adult dogs to a crate or a "dog proof" room for the benefit of the dog as it keeps the dog safe and can reduce stress later during travel or vet care incidents. The reason I use quotation marks on "dog proof" room is because no room is really dog proof. There is a floor, there s a door, there is likely windows, there is probably electric etc. All of which can be chewed on by a determined dog. 

A crate isn't perfect for that either (some dogs will break out of crates or even learn to open the latches) but it translates well to many situations. Hotels, friend and family homes, vets, airlines, whatever. A dog that is truly comfortable in his crate is a dog that can adjust to those situations. 

I wrote a post on a crate games seminar I took which outlined the basics of the DVD if you can't access it locally (in the US, many libraries can get a hold of DVDs or other media for free to the end user). I will try to find the link.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

Do it while he's young so he knows how to settle in a crate, plus you will keep him out of trouble and save your home from becoming a chew toy and bathroom. 

I crated my 4 yr old pwd up until a few months ago to where I though I can trust her. I keep her and the others in our sunroom. I just discovered she is scratching the window sills all up and she has hopped up onto the table and stolen and eaten entire snack tubs full of dog biscuits and bunny treats. She opened the sun room door once, found her way to the baking supplies cabinet and ate a pound of coconut flour which I then had to make her throw up. Another time she let herself out and opened the cabinet under the sink where the trash is kept, and devolved an intestinal blockage. I'm not so sure crating them is mean after watching her go through al that! 

I tried leaving my mini poodle out but he tears up my chihuahuas pee pad every time. I'm bringing the crate back in tomorrow for echo and jacks is already in tonight. Just not worth it.


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## PurplePointer (Jul 4, 2014)

Shell said:


> A dog who is comfortable in a crate will sleep and relax and barely notice they are confined.


My dog is like this when he naps during the day most of the time he chooses to go into his crate. When we shut the door at night he hardly lifts his head to see. 

The crate is also his safe spot, when the kids are being too much for him he can go inside and get away from them.

There are so many useful reasons as other said to have a dog like his crate. Personally for us it has allowed us to take the dog so many more places.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Crates are great training tools, as well as being somewhere safe to put a puppy when not supervised.

Over-crating is bad though, and I would limit the amount of time the puppy spends in the crate when you are home. If you crate too much, you could end up with a dog who won't settle anywhere except in a crate, which is inconvenient for visiting other people and going out with the puppy etc.

I wouldn't put a puppy in the crate and let him whine either. I would train him to go in the crate using treats, and spend several days just doing that. When he likes going in the crate you can close the door for short periods, but then put a kong or something in there to keep him busy. Don't just stick him in and expect him to be ok.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

My BF was pretty hesistant about it originally too, but he decided to just go with me on this one. And now that its all said and done we don't regret it all. He was put in his crate anytime we couldn't watch him (even if it was only for 15-20 minutes), and since he won't go potty in his crate, it made potty training go SO fast. Along with the potty training advantage, it kept him out of trouble while we were out of the house before he could be trusted, and now it's where he sleeps on his own every night. He LOVES his crate. 

I don't close the door anymore, but it is still his favorite spot. It's so convenient having a dog that loves his crate. When I flew him to NJ to my parents house, Delta's flight attendants said he was absolutely silent. When he got his first surgery, the vet assistants said he was one of the most well behaved dogs there. When we go camping or to another person's house, it's so nice being able to just put the crate in the car and bring it with us, and have a place to put him-where he's happy.

Although my BF was hesitant at first, especially since I was the first time dog owner saying we should try the crate method, he even admitted, it was a great decision. Makes puppyhood much easier  And he said that any puppy we get in the future, we are totally using the crate method.

When you can put your puppy in a place it won't get into trouble, it leaves a lot less room for error.


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## bowie (Apr 26, 2010)

Sunak said:


> You are being unfair and cruel. Your husband is right about putting your dog in a cage.


Unless the dog is constantly crated with minimal to no interaction, then no.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

bowie said:


> Unless the dog is constantly crated with minimal to no interaction, then no.


My dog was so upset when I had to keep him out of his crate post surgery (in case he couldn't stand up-would be hard to get to him, lots of screws to undo), that was cruelty


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Great analogy, Shell.

Here's the crate games post (forgot I had it bookmarked): 



Shell said:


> Here's how I learned crate games at a seminar:
> 
> Have a whole lot of small treats, the dog’s regular dry food if they are reasonably food motivated. They’re going to get treats regularly for over an hour of training so nothing that will upset the dog’s stomach. You can make a trail mix of cheese and meat and dry food to make it more motivating. You may also start with the less exciting food but up it to a natural balance roll or meat or similar high value treats at the training goes on to keep their attention.
> 
> ...


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

As a puppy - my dog was leashed to me so I could keep a close eye on him and keep him from getting into trouble. When we'd leave the house, he was crated, and at bedtime, he was crated. Occasionally, if he was over stimulated and unable to calm down, I'd crate him for about 5 minutes until he'd settle and then let him back out BUT the crate was NEVER used as a punishment and he was never put in it for extended periods if someone was home.

As an adult - Toby is only crated if we leave the house. 

Toby will walk himself to his crate, get in willingly, take his treat from my hand gently, and allow me to close the door. He doesn't bark, doesn't whine. Visually, yes he looks a little pathetic/sad, but it's for his own good and he's never stressed by it. Sometimes he'll even go in it completely on his own while people are home, and he sleeps on top of it fairly often too. He has a nice fluffy pillow inside as well for cushioning since the bottom of the crate is quite hard.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I am a fan of crates. There are three in my living room now. My reasons for using them are: great for potty training, dogs can't get into anything when you're gone, if they're reactive to the outside world, like one of mine is, they can't bother neighbors, if there's a fire, I know where my dogs are. 

IMO every dog should be crate trained. They don't have to use them but should be able to. One never knows if your dog may need to stay overnight at a vets, or animal control if they get loose. Much less stressful on the dog if they've been crate trained. 

People say their dogs sleep all day so crates aren't needed. Flip that and if the dog sleeps all day, why not let them sleep in a crate?


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I got Kris, my Dobe, at 11 weeks. She travelled the couple of hours home in a crate in my Van. I put her in a crate that night, she whined a little and then went to sleep. I got up with her a couple of times the first few nights, then she started sleeping right through. I have always given her a treat when I put her in the crate and right from the start she would run right into her crate. She is 20 months old and she still sleeps in her crate at night. All I have to say is "bedtime" and she runs into her crate, takes her treat and curls up for the night. She was never crated during the day unless I had to go out somewhere and could not take her with me.

I tried leaving her loose one night and neither of us would have gotten any sleep as she just could not settle down and was happy when I finally put her to bed in her crate.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Guys isnt this the pup thats like FIFTY DAYS old!!!!
Look I am no fan of crates (we had one open in our living room for TWO years) and I can tell you neither our boxer, our giant schnauzer (who came crate trained), or our Bernese mt dog EVER voluntary took naps in it.... we stored their doggie toys in there and they would dive in to extract a toy thats it.

I agree that pup needs to understand crates since he will be shipped in one eventually-
but to the OP, you can most certainly use supervision, or baby gates in a puppy proofed room when you are gone... instead of a crate for long term management- we always did.
And one thing not often discussed, is that the forced immobility for hours at a time cannot be good for large breeds prone to joint issues....

Ok thats my opinion. Good luck, you sound like a loving owner trying to do what is best for your dog. Follow your heart....



PS when our Bernese mt dog went in for his neuter, he was left to recover on a blanket next to the rows of crates (with supervision I love my vet)- they wanted him to be comfortable.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Like I said, I never crate-trained my current dogs and they do fine when caged at the vet's. Way better than my first dog, whom I tried to crate-train using nasty awful methods from dog training books. Ugh. Those methods made her totally claustrophobic. Bad crate training is much worse than no crate training. BUT, of course, good crate training would be best .


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Shell said:


> My male dog Chester isn't crate trained. I adopted him at about 1.5 years old and I did at the time get a crate. He was absolutely panicked by it (and other small spaces) so I didn't continue attempting to crate train because he was a house-trained adult that is non-destructive.


Jewel is the same way. I'm actually not sure if she would ever have been successful at crate training her. We tried EVERYTHING and she still absolutely despised it. I'm not sure if maybe she was crated for hours at a time in her past or what the issue is, but she would nearly kill herself trying to escape. 

I would definitely crate any dog that is destructive or not housebroken. 

It is safer than the dog finding something dangerous to chew, etc.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

I just wanted to add, that if I crated my pup all day, I wouldn't feel comfortable crating over night.

I know some people do, but that's just my opinion.

When we tried crating Jewel, it was only for 4 hours a day and at night, she just slept in our room.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with crate training your dog. It does take patience though, but think about it - would you take your baby out of its crib every time it cried? Not unless you want a spoiled child who knows he/she can get away with everything if they cry.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Jen2010 said:


> There's nothing wrong with crate training your dog. It does take patience though, but think about it - would you take your baby out of its crib every time it cried? Not unless you want a spoiled child who knows he/she can get away with everything if they cry.


we coslept with our child, she is 11 now and Fine.

That said, this pup can barely be FIVE weeks old. Crate training needs to proceed very carefully if at all at this age.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

d_ray said:


> I just wanted to add, that if I crated my pup all day, I wouldn't feel comfortable crating over night.
> 
> I know some people do, but that's just my opinion.
> 
> When we tried crating Jewel, it was only for 4 hours a day and at night, she just slept in our room.


I should have said mine sleep loose in our room.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Jen2010 said:


> There's nothing wrong with crate training your dog. It does take patience though, but think about it - would you take your baby out of its crib every time it cried? Not unless you want a spoiled child who knows he/she can get away with everything if they cry.


Absolutely I would take a child out of his her crib if he/she cried. The sense of abandonment that is caused by a BABY being ignored by his/her parents is emotionally damaging. If I had a child it would be attachment parenting/co-sleeping/etc. all the way. So I can't believe it's healthy for a crying puppy to be ignored either. Like I said, for when nobody is able to supervise, it's great, but I won't ever leave a baby crying anywhere if I can help it.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Jen2010 said:


> There's nothing wrong with crate training your dog. It does take patience though, but think about it - *would you take your baby out of its crib every time it cried? Not unless you want a spoiled child who knows he/she can get away with everything if they cry.*


I don't think that's a fair analogy - Yes, I did take my children out of their crib every time they cried. The result is a 5 year old who eats his dinner, goes to bed by 7:30pm nightly, and does most things by himself. My daughter is 10m old and we respond to her cries too - the result is an infant who goes to bed between 8:30-9 (keeping in mind she naps during the day), self-entertains, and has been sleeping through the night since 3-4 months old.

When I would crate my dog, it was because we weren't going to be around to supervise him. He's never crated when we're home because that's unnecessary. I would absolutely tend to him if he started crying because we'd left him in the crate while we're home.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I absolutely do ignore puppies when they're first being introduced to crating and cry. 

I absolutely never ignored my children when they were babies and cried. 

Puppies are not children. They are not even developmentally analogous. 

My human babies were not mobile when they were young enough to be in a crib and had neither teeth nor claws with which to get themselves into trouble. 

Puppies do. They also have the capacity to learn that the crate is a nice place, which is what most of the fussing and whinging is about - and adjustment period.

And if either one cried in the middle of the night and needed me, I'd wake up and deal with it rather than stuffing my fingers in my ears and ignoring it.

Neither my kids nor my dogs are spoiled brats who can't handle life or amusing themselves or sleeping on their own.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Jen2010 said:


> There's nothing wrong with crate training your dog. It does take patience though, but think about it - would you take your baby out of its crib every time it cried? Not unless you want a spoiled child who knows he/she can get away with everything if they cry.


A dog that will need to be shipped overseas by air in a crate and as an older puppy one who could easily destroy half a room in half an hour isn't exactly the same thing as an infant crying. 

That said, I don't see any reason not to start crate training a puppy even at 5 weeks old. I'm not talking about putting him in there and ignoring him for hours. I mean things like put him in the crate, shut the door, talking sweetly to him and give him a treat and step way for a minute, reward and repeat for maybe 5 minutes. Putting a puppy in a large crate while you shower or make dinner isn't really much different than using a playpen or gating him off except for being a bit more secure and having the added benefit of getting the dog used to the crate for future travel etc.

I don't disagree with BernerMax that it is totally possible to housetrain and raise a pup without a crate, I simply see enough benefits to it that the negatives are so minor in comparison. Doesn't mean a crate has to be used all the time, doesn't mean you can't also tether the dog to you etc, just that getting a dog used to a crate is something I think can be very beneficial. Being able to have a freshly neutered dog lay on a blanket outside a crate/kennel at a vets office, for example, is going to be the exception to the rule for most people and really not something that could be counted on. 

The crate game seminar I took, I handled an 8 week old Lab puppy and the pup took to it no problem. It was a good chance to start things off with a positive experience for that puppy.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Kyllobernese said:


> I tried leaving her loose one night and neither of us would have gotten any sleep as she just could not settle down and was happy when I finally put her to bed in her crate.


My girls are like this too. Sometimes I crave some doggy snuggles and let them sleep with me at night, but I usually regret it a few hours in. They are so much more relaxed in their crates at night. When outside of them, it's as though they feel like they have to be more on alert and they bark at every little noise and can't get comfy, but when inside, they just curl right up and sleep. 

Marley goes into her crate on her own whenever she wants to get away from Nova's antics or when she's decided that it's her bedtime. I'm so thankful that she is so comfortable in her crate, as she has been on strict crate rest for weeks now (starting to get back into restricted activity, though). 

The girls are also crated when no one is home. When I say "inside", they run in and pretty much fall asleep. It doesn't even take 2 minutes once they are in there for their eyes to start getting heavy, haha.

Not all that long ago, a co-worker of my hubby's lost his husky puppy because he left him out while he was gone. The puppy had just been fixed, so he was wearing a cone. He got into their trash and got his cone stuck in a plastic bag and suffocated to death. It was heartbreaking.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

a crate is you and your dog's best friend and trainer. don't feel quilty about usuing a crate. once your
dog gets use to the crate and is crate trained i bet he'll go to his crate on his own. you can teach your dog "go to
your crate". "go to your crate" comes in handy when there's someone at the door, when you have
visitors and when the dog is in the way of some activity.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

you have no idea what you're talking about. you're clueless.



Sunak said:


> You are being unfair and cruel. Your husband is right about putting your dog in a cage.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

my dog was out of his crate at 4 months old. from 4 months old to 8 months old
everything was fine. then at 8 months old he decided to destroy the house and everything in it. 

"hello Mr. Crate, do you remember Loki? he's going to be with
you untill he's 1&1/2 yrs. old".


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

doggiepop said:


> my dog was out of his crate at 4 months old. from 4 months old to 8 months old
> everything was fine. then at 8 months old he decided to destroy the house and everything in it.
> 
> "hello Mr. Crate, do you remember Loki? he's going to be with
> you untill he's 1&1/2 yrs. old".


Lol, that made me laugh. As I said the other day, three dogs & three crates. If you can't find a dog, check a crate. They could be in their own crate or someone else's.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

you can definitely house break a dog without a crate. the dog i have now is the 1st dog i ever used a crate with. i always thought
"my poor puppy-wuppy is trapped". i found house training was much easier with a crate. at 4 months old our dog was sleeping
in our bedroom on the floor or in our bed. often he would leave the room and go to his crate which was in the livingroom to sleep.
during the day he would go to his crate often.


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## Brooklynsmom (Mar 19, 2014)

doggiepop said:


> my dog was out of his crate at 4 months old. from 4 months old to 8 months old
> everything was fine. then at 8 months old he decided to destroy the house and everything in it.
> 
> "hello Mr. Crate, do you remember Loki? he's going to be with
> you untill he's 1&1/2 yrs. old".


This is hilarious. Also we were in a similar situation. We tried to take Brooklyn out of the crate but she wasn't ready. I was a little skeptical of crate training but knew it was necessary. Brooklyn was hell bent on eating the couch and anything we loved.. And that was in front of us so we knew if we couldn't watch her she had to be confined. Now at 10 months she is given free reign of the downstairs while we are gone. It's been a month and she hasn't destroyed anything. I'd say crate train until the dog is trust worthy. Brooklyn didn't love her crate but she was comfortable there. She used to go into her crate to rest but now she prefers our bed. Hahaha.


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## Viantha (Aug 12, 2014)

Hi guys! 

Wow thank you all so much for the overwhelming response to my question! Apologies for the radio silence however our keyboard decided to just stop working! I really appreciate every response, and have taken little bits from a few, so here's where we at with Sammy:

We left the crate in our room, in a comfy area, with the door open, his blanket and bed in it, with his toys - and then ignored the crate all together. On the day after my post, Sammy started sniffing around it on his own - when he would go near the crate, we would pretend not to watch. He would sniff it, bite it, stick his head in, and by the evening jumped in for a minute or 2 on his own - most times he did something around the crate, he got a treat. On day 2, he started voluntarily spending almost 15 minutes at a time in it - when he went in, we never closed or latched it - so he was free to go in and out as he pleased. By that evening, he would go in and play - by himself - have a rest, play some more and jump out. On day 3 this continued and we started praising him and skipping the treats all together, and he spent even more time in there. On day 4, we would alternately close the door - but not latch it. So the first time he went in, we left it open, second we closed it, and so on. It didn't seem to bother him because when he wanted out he pushed the door and was happy to find he was out. We praised him everytime, - he seemed to associate the crate with positivity already by himself anyway - treats were for reinforcement from our side. Last night, after his 3am wee - he wandered in there and slept till 6:30am when we woke up! (second morning we found him sleeping in there - wandered in himself!) We are simply amazed! Its like he crate trained himself! He does it voluntarily! Today we started latching it once in a while - he whines for all of 30 seconds and moves onto having fun in his den! LOVE IT! My husband and I are both happy that this method (touch wood) seems to be working - there's nothing cruel about it at all!

We have no intention of keeping him crated for hours at a time. I am involved in NGO work, and am working from home most of the time. The crate is to get his used to it for travelling, for the 30 min here and there that I can't keep an eye him, or if we going out and know we won't be longer than 90 minutes (at this age his bladder is too little to wait much longer - and THAT would be cruel and seen as punishment). There is a great (hopefully not prematurely) sigh of relief in our household, and Sammy is loving his den, purely because he chose to 

Thank you all for your support and advise on this matter! Hopefully he will be happy in there for up to an hour by Friday (not keen to leave him in for so long while we out unless I know how he copes) and then we can take it from there. Practically whine free crate training! SO proud of my Sammy boy!


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

sounds really really good. Crate training done gently and at the pup's pace- great!


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Fabulous! You guys are doing great! Keep it up!!


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Sounds like you're doing great!


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Sunak said:


> You are being unfair and cruel. Your husband is right about putting your dog in a cage.


How is she being unfair and cruel for wanting to crate train her dog? I could see if the dog was locked in the crate 24/7, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Crating a dog, especially a puppy, is a VERY smart idea, as it guarantees the dog won't get into trouble and possibly hurt itself when you're not home or there to watch them. I crate one of my dogs now because she's got incontinence issues, and she doesn't care at ALL. Infact, she likes the crate and goes in it on her own when we're just hanging out.


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## PoodleDuo (Jun 22, 2014)

I have two dogs. One a puppy and the other a fully housebroken well behaved female. They sleep in crates. It's easier for me, they're comfortable and sleep better. Plus if I ever have to board them or go on a road trip they're content to stay in their crate. Working in a grooming salom, we get so many dogs who are never crated and it's a nightmare..


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I have crate trained all my dogs and my ffiancee knows by now that whatever I do with and for the dogs is for the best and he should stay out of it LOL, because although something doesn't make sense now, it always does later. But I am always happy to explain to him why I am doing something, just like he is happy to explain when he is breaking horses to ride.


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## Viantha (Aug 12, 2014)

LOL! We have come to this consensus between us as well OwnedbyACDs. Thank you for all the positive support everyone! Sammy loves his crate - we actually don't have to close it often anymore - he goes in often to chill, and always to sleep!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

d_ray said:


> Jewel is the same way. I'm actually not sure if she would ever have been successful at crate training her. We tried EVERYTHING and she still absolutely despised it. I'm not sure if maybe she was crated for hours at a time in her past or what the issue is, but she would nearly kill herself trying to escape.
> 
> I would definitely crate any dog that is destructive or not housebroken.
> 
> It is safer than the dog finding something dangerous to chew, etc.


Izze was like thst with crates, I even got a crate (at the flea market thank god so it wasn't to much of a waste lol) and i ended up using it for another dog later, Josefina in fact  and it's likely next puppy will also be using it... provided they aren't a crate hater too lol.


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## Sparky0909 (Sep 6, 2014)

My only question is, why is he in the crate just hanging out while you are home? Are you just trying to get him used to it or what is the purpose?

We put our dog in a crate when we are gone from the house, in bed, or if we need to keep him confined for a short period of time (ie, our pest guy came to spray the other day and Sparky just wanted to play with him so I had to put him up to keep him safe and away from the pest guy). 

We can actually say "get in bed" and he will jump into his bed. Sometimes it gets quiet and I jump up to see where he is...and he will be in his crate chewing on a bone or something


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

RCloud said:


> How is she being unfair and cruel for wanting to crate train her dog? I could see if the dog was locked in the crate 24/7, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Crating a dog, especially a puppy, is a VERY smart idea, as it guarantees the dog won't get into trouble and possibly hurt itself when you're not home or there to watch them. I crate one of my dogs now because she's got incontinence issues, and she doesn't care at ALL. Infact, she likes the crate and goes in it on her own when we're just hanging out.


I have two dogs that sleep in crates, I guess I am a horrible cruel person, too then xD


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Sparky0909 said:


> My only question is, why is he in the crate just hanging out while you are home? Are you just trying to get him used to it or what is the purpose?
> 
> We put our dog in a crate when we are gone from the house, in bed, or if we need to keep him confined for a short period of time (ie, our pest guy came to spray the other day and Sparky just wanted to play with him so I had to put him up to keep him safe and away from the pest guy).
> 
> We can actually say "get in bed" and he will jump into his bed. Sometimes it gets quiet and I jump up to see where he is...and he will be in his crate chewing on a bone or something


I can't answer specifically for the OP, but some dogs simply enjoy being in their crates. It's a safe, comfortable place they can hang out and be left alone (dogs need me time, too). It's kind of like when you go to your room: it's quiet, comfortable, and (usually) no one will start bugging you while you're there.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

I have never successfully crate trained any of my dogs and am with your hubbie on repulsion toward cages. But human sentimentality often matches poorly with a dog's sentiments (for example, on the subject of eating kitty crunchers). Congrads to you for doing it successfully and gently! Two of mine travelled half way around the world (Western Australia->SFO) in a crate without much crate training and they were fine on arrival, so I don't necessarily buy the need to crate train as prep for travel. I've had no trouble puppy-proofing my house and the things that get destroyed have not been important. Potty training . . . they learn fast and I can tolerate cleaning up a few mistakes. But if you can pull it off without lots of emotional protest from your pup, more power to you.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sometimes they will protest, I have found that a good pair of earplugs or noise canceling headphones fixes that, at least until the pup tires themselves out and goes to sleep.

In the end, if you are the one who is going to be doing most of the care and training, I would politely remind Hubby of that. There is nothing wrong with crate training if its done right (Like, not used for punishment or leaving the dog in ther for extended periods of time etc ...)


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## Viantha (Aug 12, 2014)

Hi Sparky0909 - cookieface is indeed correct - he isn't crated while at home by me - he simply goes in there for a period of time by himself whenever he feels like. He enjoys playing in there, and sometimes napping or sleeping. Initially I was doing it to get him used to the idea and make sure he was comfortable with it - we didn't want his first crate experience to be while we away - kind of testing the reaction to it I guess?

Sandgrubber, the idea of leaving Sammy while we away and knowing the "doggy hotel" crates the puppies, makes me feel that him being used to a crate for night time is one less unfamiliar thing for him while his mum n dad are away - theres no repulsion towards crating - it was more uneasiness about a whining puppy - but every puppy, like all kids, whine - we don't reward kids for it, why reward a pup  but thankfully he started loving it within days  When we go out we don't leave him in there either, his bladder is still to small to last more than an hour, so we have puppy proofed a room which he stays in - we often come home to find him voluntarily chilling or playing in his crate. 

Sammy's actually very cute - he created it into his own little nest. Every night, he trots around the house picking up his toys and carrying them to his crate!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

See? Most learn to like it, it's their own space they call their own . Even my dogs who graduated from crating will still go in and sleep.


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