# Would it be possible to get a service dog for anxiety?



## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Does anyone know if it would be possible to get a service dog for anxiety? I want to know because if I could I would like to get my dog Lucas qualified (after more training because I know he's not ready yet and he's still pretty young) as a service dog for me for anxiety. I can't even order food at a restaurant whether it's fast food or high quality.
When I'm at a store where I can bring my dog I am totally confident and calm and I don't get anxious.
When I can't bring him I practically freeze up and if anyone talks to me I get this terrible feeling in my stomach.
So all that being said...what do you guys think. I know at least a few of you on here have experience with service dogs and all that so I was hoping you guys could all help me out with figuring this out.
Thank you in advance.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't know much---and I'm sure Xeph will help more---but I do know that a service dog has to be trained to do 3 things to assist with your condition (and I think it has to be a doctor-diagnosed condition). If you can figure out 3 concrete things for him to do, I think it's allowable. But it's kind of hard to think of concrete things a dog does for anxiety, besides just being there (which I'm pretty sure doesn't count).


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't count either sadly. And that's all I really need from him. I wonder what he could do for me that would count. Can any of you think of possible things? Thank you for responding.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I believe I have read here more than once that a dog to help you with an emotional disorder is not considered a service dog. IOW's the dog must be able to do something for you that you cannot do yourself. 

For instance, there are dogs who can warn a diabetic their blood sugar is dropping so they can stop, test and do what is necessary to not go into a diabetic coma. There are dogs who can sense a seizure before it happens so an epileptic person can get in a safe place. There are dogs who help people with balance issues so they can walk and not fall down. Of course, the classic service dog is the dog who guides someone who is legally blind so they can live an independent life.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ya that's what I was figuring. I was just hoping there was a way to make it happen because it would help so much. I guess the people who make the rules about who gets dogs for what think of it the same way as when people who are overweight get handicap parking permits and people get upset because it isn't that they are paralyzed or something. I guess that people who are blind or something would get upset if people who were crippled by anxiety would get dogs to help them too.
I wish it were possible though because that would make my life so much better and allow me to function like a normal person in public.

I don't know if I worded the third sentence right, but I hope people understand what I'm getting at lol.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Service dog? Maybe not. But there are dogs known as emotional support animals. Try reading this : http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/node/76 and see if it helps.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

theyogachick said:


> Service dog? Maybe not. But there are dogs known as emotional support animals. Try reading this : http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/node/76 and see if it helps.


Very interesting link I'll have to read it all of the way before I get hopeful or not. Thank you very much though for the link and I'm reading it now.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

There are no laws regulating or certifying service dogs. They do not have to have a special license.You buy a work vest on line and there you go. That said, there are things you have to do to have a service dog. You don't have to have a doctor's diagnosis but it helps. Your psychiatrist or therapist can write you a detailed letter of diagnosis and stating your need for a service dog that you can carry (although federal law prohibits someone asking about your diagnosis). Airlines can use their judgement about allowing service dogs on planes-it could be difficult for a mental disorder. Stores, restaurants etc. can only ask you if he is a service dog and what type of service dog. For a mental disorder you would need to figure out what would be the most accepted statement. You would need to be clear that your dog is a service dog and NOT a therapy dog which is not allowed in. Perhaps he could be for blood pressure control (just off the top of my head-I'm sure there are better statements) And the dog must be rigorously trained in obedience. Many disabled people are training their own. My lab/pit mix was abandoned with me years ago and I trained him for mobility assistance-my diagnosis of muscular dystrophy is not obvious. He mostly saves me energy by walking beside me and keeping me from stumbling or falling. Businesses can ask you to leave if the dog is disruptive (jumping around, barking etc.) or does actual damage. I taught my dog to poop on command so that I can empty him out before we run errands.
There are several web sites, including the justice department, that spell all this out in detail-more than I can go into here. There are also bulletin boards for service dog owners-I used one alot when I was starting out-these are mostly people who train their own dogs for themselves. I'm not promising anything but there are people who use service animals for mental disorders. You may email me at [email protected] if you would like more info. Good luck.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

In Canada I am pretty sure you can have a service dog for Anxiety, etc. There was a program on TV about someone in Vancouver, B.C. training them. Don't know the details and does not help you much as you are in the States.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

According to that link it looks like I might have a shot I just need to find out more about my areas laws when it comes to the emotional support dogs. Thank you for that link it brings me hope.
alison4 thank you and I will be e mailing you shortly


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

You are in Texas which recently has been giving people problems with service dogs. However you should know that Federal law trumps state and local law. You DO NOT need to know or follow any lesser laws. Look at these two pages just for a start. http://www.psychdog.org and http://sdog.danawheels.net for good info. The 2nd one has links to the Justice dept. etc.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

alison4 said:


> You are in Texas which recently has been giving people problems with service dogs. However you should know that Federal law trumps state and local law. You DO NOT need to know or follow any lesser laws. Look at these two pages just for a start. http://www.psychdog.org and http://sdog.danawheels.net for good info. The 2nd one has links to the Justice dept. etc.



Thanks again ^^ I might be moving to Michigan soon do you know anything about how they are there?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I really can't give much insight into psychiatric service dogs unfortunately. I do know it could/would be very difficult for you to get a dog. The dog MUST do more than just be with you to make you more comfortable in public, and you would likely have to be more severely impaired than you are (as in, practically agoraphobic).

Please be aware that Emotional Support Animals *do not have public access rights*! This means the dog CANNOT go into Walmart with you, or a grocery store, or Kohl's etc etc. They are exempt from housing laws and are allowed on flights, but that is it.


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## bartleby (Aug 18, 2010)

I've heard of service dogs assisting with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Some of the things they might be trained to do:
-Alert the owner to people around the corner or in the next room, saving the owner from being startled and having a bad reaction.
-Stand between the owner and other people, saving the owner from feeling crowded/claustrophobic and having a bad reaction.
-Dial 911 on a special device if the owner has frozen and is unresponsive.
-Bark on command, which can draw attention when the owner needs help and/or warn off people who are scaring the owner.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Xeph said:


> I really can't give much insight into psychiatric service dogs unfortunately. I do know it could/would be very difficult for you to get a dog. The dog MUST do more than just be with you to make you more comfortable in public, and you would likely have to be more severely impaired than you are (as in, practically agoraphobic).
> 
> Please be aware that Emotional Support Animals *do not have public access rights*! This means the dog CANNOT go into Walmart with you, or a grocery store, or Kohl's etc etc. They are exempt from housing laws and are allowed on flights, but that is it.


That's what I've seen as far as them being allowed in places other types of service dogs are allowed. I did see though that dogs for these purposes don't need to actually do anything for you though. They just need to be well trained in obedience and not pose a threat to the public.

Even if he could just come with me on an airplane that would be useful. I do also doubt that I would be able to get a dog for that. I'll have to talk with my doctors and see if they think it would be able to help me and be able to give me something to tell whoever it is you need to talk to to apply for these things that they think, in their professional opinion, that I should have one.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I did see though that dogs for these purposes don't need to actually do anything for you though. They just need to be well trained in obedience and not pose a threat to the public.


This is correct, and it is also the reason that they are not granted public access (because they don't actually do anything). I'm reiterating that ESA's are NOT service dogs, not because I think you're stupid, but to be sure that any others reading this understand that ESAs and SDs are for different purposes.

ESA handlers do not have public access rights, SD handlers do.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Xeph said:


> This is correct, and it is also the reason that they are not granted public access (because they don't actually do anything). I'm reiterating that ESA's are NOT service dogs, not because I think you're stupid, but to be sure that any others reading this understand that ESAs and SDs are for different purposes.
> 
> ESA handlers do not have public access rights, SD handlers do.


No offense taken. I understand why because it can be confusing especially when I type the wrong words on accident even though I knew what I meant. I thank you for your input. And I will continue to look into this subject.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

http://www.psychdog.org/


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

It's late at night, so my apologies if I'm not being very clear, I will come back and re-read tomorrow.

Keep FAR away from PSDS and their minions. Stick to IAADP.

Well, I haven't introduced myself yet, so I guess this will be my first post! My name is Julee, I'm 16, and my owner trained psychiatric service dog is Embyr, she is three. I have schizophrenia and PTSD, and the most apparent symptom is anxiety. So yes, you would qualify for a service dog for anxiety! Service dogs need to be tasked trained or do work (such as seizure alert). It's very easy to task train a service dog, most of the time. Em is trained for over thirty tasks, though the general rule of thumb is three (there is no set limit on how few tasks you cana have, but three is a good start). Just having the dog there doesn't count as a task, though I fully recognize the theraputic benefits. There is NO certification required in the USA and most psychiatric service dogs are owner trained. The ADA protects full service dogs, you will have to look at your state laws for service dog in training laws. Feel free to PM me with any questions you might have.  I do apologize again if this post doesn't make a whole lot of sense...scatterbrained tonight!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Julee and Embyr said:


> It's late at night, so my apologies if I'm not being very clear, I will come back and re-read tomorrow.
> 
> Keep FAR away from PSDS and their minions. Stick to IAADP.
> 
> Well, I haven't introduced myself yet, so I guess this will be my first post! My name is Julee, I'm 16, and my owner trained psychiatric service dog is Embyr, she is three. I have schizophrenia and PTSD, and the most apparent symptom is anxiety. So yes, you would qualify for a service dog for anxiety! Service dogs need to be tasked trained or do work (such as seizure alert). It's very easy to task train a service dog, most of the time. Em is trained for over thirty tasks, though the general rule of thumb is three (there is no set limit on how few tasks you cana have, but three is a good start). Just having the dog there doesn't count as a task, though I fully recognize the theraputic benefits. There is NO certification required in the USA and most psychiatric service dogs are owner trained. The ADA protects full service dogs, you will have to look at your state laws for service dog in training laws. Feel free to PM me with any questions you might have.  I do apologize again if this post doesn't make a whole lot of sense...scatterbrained tonight!


Can you explain the difference between PSDS and IAADP and why one is preferrable over the other (might help people make informed choices) Admittedly it is not my area of expertise, but I wanted to post something that in fact Psychiatric Service Dogs are service dogs, and may be certified as such. Thanks! And welcome.


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

In short, PSDS is corrupt. The founder/owner, Joan, has two aggressive Ridgebacks for SDs. The Gathering held every year is a disaster, every year. One of the moderators is completely wrecking her dog and refuses to slow down with him (she constantly takes videos and posts them on youtube, so if anyone would like me to point something out, I will). PSDS encourages people to get their dog one week and begin taking it out later the same week as a SDIT, nevermind the fact that the dog isn't settled or task trained yet. I speak from previous experience, I recently left/was eliminated from the listserv for expressing concerns and having an opinion (such as with the moderator's SD). Most of the tasks written on the PSDS suggestion list would not hold up in court. The tasks that IAADP lists (found here: http://www.iaadp.org/psd_tasks.html) have been proven to, when it comes down to it.

There is no national certification in the US. Many places claim it, but the ADA states that there isn't.  Many programs will "certify" a dog with them that has gone through their program, but it means nothing legally.
But, yes PSDs are indeed service dogs, just as much so as a seizure alert dog, hearing assistance dog, guide dog, etc.
Thank you for the welcome!


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> Can you explain the difference between PSDS and IAADP and why one is preferrable over the other (might help people make informed choices) Admittedly it is not my area of expertise, but I wanted to post something that in fact Psychiatric Service Dogs are service dogs, and may be certified as such. Thanks! And welcome.


This is what I was wondering too. What is the difference between the two? (edit: So the difference is that the PSDS is lead by people who don't know what they are doing pretty much? What are some other good things about the IAADP?) I'll look it up in the meanwhile, but I'm likely to get confused lol. 


Welcome to the forums by the way Julee ^^ I hope you like it here and I just wanted to tell you that sometimes people are going to be blunt and it will sound really rude and just wanted to let you know they are just being blunt and not really trying to upset you they are just trying to get to the point.


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

Thank you, Ruby!  I'm fine with bluntness, as I'm the same way 

PSDS is corrupt. If you don't agree with them on something, you're attacked. I have plenty of horror stories, but here's a recent one. Keep in mind that PSDS is against dogs from a program, for whatever reason. A friend of mine who was fighting with her college to bring the SD she will be recieving (from a program) to the school. She chose not to follow the advice of the head of PSDS, Joan. So, Joan sent her school exerpts from the girl's private blog, ranting about how rediculous the whole thing was, in attempts to get the school and the girl into a fight. The people in PSDS know what to do...but choose not to do it. If you'd like a forum or community, try www.pleasedontpetme.com.  IAADP know what they're talking about and follow their own advice. Their tasks will hold up in court. Most of PSDS tasks will not.

From the sounds of it, you're disabled by your anxiety. Nobody can fully determine that but you. Here is a link with ADA information reguarding service dogs:
http://www.iaadp.org/doj-def-comments-Title-II-III-SA.html

Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well I think training your dog till your eyeballs hurt and then purchasing or making a service dog vest and have a go at it. If I have the correct understanding it's against the law for anybody to stop or question/challenge you in any way. The dog has to be trained and socialized and you are in business. I would pop a backpack on him to make him look more official and even that can be trained at home.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

wvasko said:


> Well I think training your dog till your eyeballs hurt and then purchasing or making a service dog vest and have a go at it. If I have the correct understanding it's against the law for anybody to stop or question/challenge you in any way. The dog has to be trained and socialized and you are in business. I would pop a backpack on him to make him look more official and even that can be trained at home.


I'm pretty sure this is true as well, but I just want to make sure everything is official and all that way if anything does happen to the point where I really need to prove it I want to be alright.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

Service dogs are covered by Federal Law. Every state is the same as far as the law goes. Its simply a matter of learning your rights and going ahead with them-ignoring any fuss. I had some trouble in Southern Maryland when I first started out-they got over it. Good luck to you.

This simply isn't true. http://psychdog.org is a good site for this. A service dog is any dog that provides support in any way for someone who is disabled. You might be thinking of a therapy dog which is not the same thing. You definately would have public access rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Also, only Service Dogs are exempt from housing laws and allowed on flights etc. so if your dog can fly with you then it can go into a grocery store or Kohl's!!!!

Absolutely! Dogs that assist someone with an emotional disorder ARE Service dogs and have FULL public access rights. It isn't necessary to prove what your dog does for you-Federal law says that any business or other public place can ONLY ask if the dog is a service dog and what kind of dog. (Although I'm happy to explain)

The point I'm trying to make is that you don't have to apply to anyone for anything. THERE IS NO CERTIFICATION OR LICENSE for a service dog. Do some research at the sites I gave you and others. Decide what you might want your dog to do for you. Print out the info. and take it to your doc./therapist. Most mental health professionals are not yet familiar with service dogs. Trust your instincts-this is your decision-if you think this would help, it will. You would like the support of pros but it is not required. I used a 4point cane and sometimes an electric scooter. Switching to my dog is the best thing I ever did.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> If I have the correct understanding it's against the law for anybody to stop or question/challenge you in any way


This is not correct.

Employees/shop owners CAN ask you:
Is that a service dog?
Are you disabled?
What does your dog do to mitigate your disability (Or a variation of phrasing thereof).

They CANNOT ask you what your disability is.



> Dogs that assist someone with an emotional disorder ARE Service dogs and have FULL public access rights.


Only if they are *task trained*. And "emotional disorders" need to fall under "psychiatric disorders"



> Also, only Service Dogs are exempt from housing laws and allowed on flights etc.


This is not entirely true:
http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/ESA

http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/ESA-flying

http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/ESA-housing


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

Service dogs for emotional support have full public access. They don't have to be "doing" anything physical or obvious for their person. There is one in my neighborhood (Maryland) that works for a veteran. The Washington Post just did a great article on pets helping veterans with PTSD. They are just there for emotional support but if someone wanted to turn their dog into a Service Dog it would be easy to do and would not require approval from anyone.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Service dogs for emotional support have full public access.


Not under federal law. Under individual state laws they may, but ESAs are NOT protected under the ADA!


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

Makes a lot of sense! Tasks are set by the dog owner/handler. If walking calmly by a person's side is what a person needs then that's a task. The original poster said she felt calmer in public with her dog-so that's a task. I dealt with the whole "in training" issue by making sure my dog had his obedience down, then I put a vest on him and went out! He learned on the job (mobility assistance). I don't use my dog to pick things up so its not obvious what his tasks are most of the time (unless he's helping me up from the floor). I think many service dogs are owner trained these dogs because of the expense. I'm so glad you posted. What kind of dog do you have?-the breed I mean.

Let's hear it for people with opinions!!!!!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> If walking calmly by a person's side is what a person needs then that's a task.


No...it is not. The dog needs to do something that is directly related to the person's disability. ANY dog can walk next to a person...that is not a task. A person feeling calmer when their dog is around doesn't have a trained dog. ANY dog can just hang around and have their human feel better. If you do not TRAIN the dog to do it *it is not a task*!

That's why a dog that ALERTS to seizures cannot have that counted as a task. People do not know why dogs alert to impending seizures, which means it cannot be trained, which means it *is not a task*. Seizure RESPONSE is a task. Fetching a person's medication, dialing 911, or fetching a person in charge are all tasks...all of those things had to be taught to the dog, and all of those things help to mitigate the disability of the person with the seizures. Seizure alert, while handy, does not fall under the guidelines of being a task.

I have a German Shepherd Dog, and he's a counter balance and mobility dog. My dog is trained to act as a brace, to pull me forward to help keep me upright, and to lean into me if I'm "listing". He helps me get up from sitting or kneeling positions as well.

I'm sorry, but your "opinions" on what constitutes a task (and a service dog) are incorrect :-/


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Xeph said:


> No...it is not. The dog needs to do something that is directly related to the person's disability. ANY dog can walk next to a person...that is not a task. A person feeling calmer when their dog is around doesn't have a trained dog. ANY dog can just hang around and have their human feel better. If you do not TRAIN the dog to do it *it is not a task*!
> 
> That's why a dog that ALERTS to seizures cannot have that counted as a task. People do not know why dogs alert to impending seizures, which means it cannot be trained, which means it *is not a task*. Seizure RESPONSE is a task. Fetching a person's medication, dialing 911, or fetching a person in charge are all tasks...all of those things had to be taught to the dog, and all of those things help to mitigate the disability of the person with the seizures. Seizure alert, while handy, does not fall under the guidelines of being a task.
> 
> ...


Do you have information that "seizure alert" is not a task? I've heard of a number of dogs where were service dogs because they alerted to seizures, low blood sugar, etc. Who says that it is not a "task" because it is something the dog does naturally, if it mitigates a disability?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Who says that it is not a "task" because it is something the dog does naturally, if it mitigates a disability?


The ADA.

According to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), *a service animal must be individually trained to do work or perform tasks* of benefit to a disabled individual in order to be legally elevated from pet status to service animal status. * It is the specially trained tasks or work performed on command or cue* that legally exempts a service dog [service animal] and his disabled handler from the “No Pets Allowed” policies of stores, restaurants and other places of public accommodation under the ADA. 

http://www.iaadp.org/psd_tasks.html

Emphasis mine

The dog must be trained to do something *on cue*. You cannot teach a dog to alert to impending seizures (not yet anyway). It is something that some dogs exhibit naturally. It has not yet been determined what it is that causes a dog to alert.

Seizure *alert* and seizure *response* are not the same thing.

ETA: Dogs that alert to seizures are still trained to do other things to help mitigate that disability. If they do NOT do anything aside from alert to seizures, legally, they are NOT service dogs.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Xeph said:


> The ADA.
> 
> According to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), *a service animal must be individually trained to do work or perform tasks* of benefit to a disabled individual in order to be legally elevated from pet status to service animal status. * It is the specially trained tasks or work performed on command or cue* that legally exempts a service dog [service animal] and his disabled handler from the “No Pets Allowed” policies of stores, restaurants and other places of public accommodation under the ADA.
> 
> ...


http://www.k94life.org/html/seizure_alert.htm


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Again...you cannot CUE the dog to alert to the seizure, because you do not know when the seizure is coming (if you did, you wouldn't need the dog, lol). They have shaped the dog's natural ability in order to get a consistent alert, but it is not a behavior that you could readily demonstrate to a judge if you needed to.

You would have to be on the verge of having a seizure for the dog to demonstrate the alert.

If you read over their general info page, you'll also note that they cater to each individuals needs....the dogs do MORE than alert to seizures.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Wow, I'm really surprised at the lack of correct knowledge by most of the people in this thread! 

Ruby, Xeph knows her stuff when it comes to service dogs and she has (of course) been dead on with everything she's said pertaining to the laws. 

You have to be diagnosed diabled by a doctor before you would fall under the American Disability Associations guidlines for needing a service dog. You could use your dog as a therapy dog/emotional support dog, but he couldn't go anywhere special unless the specific businesses allowed it. He has no public access rights because you are not legally disabled.


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

Service dogs need to do tasks or work. Seizure alert falls under work. Seizure response falls under task(s, depending on what the dog does). However, people who have dogs that do "work", more often then not, have them trained for some task as well. That's called covering your ass, just in case, because everybody thinks differently when it comes to tasks and work. 

Alison, no. The dogs have to be trained to do SOMETHING to mitigate the handler's disability. Emotional support does not count and will not hold up in court under Federal Law. State Law, perhaps, depending on the state. You are meant to use whichever one gives you the most freedom. PSDS is not a good organization and quite frankly is a joke in the real SD world.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Julee and Embyr said:


> Service dogs need to do tasks or work. Seizure alert falls under work. Seizure response falls under task(s, depending on what the dog does). However, people who have dogs that do "work", more often then not, have them trained for some task as well. That's called covering your ass, just in case, because everybody thinks differently when it comes to tasks and work.
> 
> Alison, no. The dogs have to be trained to do SOMETHING to mitigate the handler's disability. Emotional support does not count and will not hold up in court under Federal Law. State Law, perhaps, depending on the state. You are meant to use whichever one gives you the most freedom. PSDS is not a good organization and quite frankly is a joke in the real SD world.


The courts ALL think the same way when it comes to this stuff, and the fact is that a dog can alert all it wants, but has to be able to demonstrate at LEAST 3 tasks on CUE that the owner cannot accomplish as a direct result of his/her disability. If you can make your dog alert to a seizure in a court of law on CUE and be accurate, then that can count as a task.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

For the record, I'll state that lately I've seen people going back and forth between the dog needing to demonstrate TWO tasks, and demonstrating THREE. I will admit at this point, I don't know which is correct, and I need to check again. I do generally say three, "just to be safe".

It's this that doesn't really differentiate "tasks" and "work" Julee.


> It is the specially trained tasks or work performed on command or cue


The fact that it mentions that the work is performed on command or cue. Could be interpreted in various ways I suppose?


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## chaoticborders (Jan 8, 2007)

An impending seizure could fall under cue.
And there is no law saying HOW MANY things a dog must do for it's handler, only that it mitigates the disability.

psychdog.org is a horrible organization. In the beginning they had promise, but it has now been corrupted by pettiness and cliques. It is wise to find other more supportive venues.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> An impending seizure could fall under cue.


I do suppose that it could be interpreted that way...don't think I've thought of it that way before. I was taught (and inferred) that cue equated to a verbal cue/command


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well this is a wild thread because after reading all replies it's apparent that it's a big bag of worms. I still think a person could bluff their way through it, Were I to command my large dog to sit and then leaned against him would he not be aiding me with support (trained task) A backpack program would that not be another trained task. I'm sure there are other things that could be easily bluffed/trained. 

A dog would have to be trained to act properly in stores/restaurants etc and that would be the hardest to get through.

A good story to answer any questions and a person/dog is in business.


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## DarkEyedReina (Jun 27, 2011)

bluffing your way through is a dangerous game. wait until your dog messes up and you put in danger a true service dog team. in many states its felony to impersonate a sd and can be a felony if your dog harms an sd or if a handler is harmed because your dog distracted the sd by charging barking or growling or even approaching said working team. i have had several people who tried to bluff to get in a store with thier dog removed from the store and if my dog is ever in danger i will call the police. yes they have dogs for anxiety and ptsd my sd is one of them and is beautifuly trained. and he has the videos to back him up.

bluffing can and will one day end badly if you try and are found to be bluffing and are taken to court and you cannot prove disability and training you will lose and pay the price.

plus how sick could a person be to endager the life and well being of a disabled person by trying to take fe fe everywhere with them. and leaning on a dog not trained for mobility work will hurt your dog and a mobility dog does not sit while it is used for bracing. things can be trained yes but not every dog has the temperment for sd work

walk the life in a handlers shoes and you will fear for the reaction if your non sd dog

if a kid runs up and stick his fingers in your dogs eyes pulls his or her ears slaps it squishes it yanks on its hair a person rams it with a shopping cart or steps on its tail how will your dog react. if your dog bites in fear then your dog will be put down you will be charged all because you wanted fe fe to come with you then the next team that goes into that store that NEEDS thier dog might be blocked because of your actions


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't know the regulations regarding service dogs, but I'd just like to say that severe anxiety can be a disability. Especially if the person is experiencing panic attacks. I would think that a dog could possibly snap someone out of a panic attack as it starts (perhaps they could detect changes in blood pressure or heart rate?). I don't think a person has to be agoraphobic for their disability to "count". You can not be afraid to leave the house but still be severely afraid of being in public places, which unless you have experienced, you probably don't understand how difficult and disabling it is! I'm not saying everyone with anxiety issues should have a service dog, but I do believe that some people with psychological disorders could benefit greatly from having an animal companion with them! Good luck with trying to figure out a solution!!


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## DarkEyedReina (Jun 27, 2011)

KatG you are 100% correct my psd alerts prior to a panic/anxeity attack and can lead me to saftey ground me and most importantly alert me prior so i can access my situation and location and decided to leave the area find an exit and regardless of my choice my dog is there to help me. one thing people with panic attacks fear is having one in public becomng disorianted and going down my dog can find the exit and if i go down will stay with me and try to get me up in any way he can


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I agree with the dangers of bluffing as that could open a large bag of worms. Sometimes though danger or not people do what people do to get through life.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

I just wanted to say that I just woke up and I tried to read all of the replies, but I might not have grasped them completely. That being said I just wanted to state the tasks I have decided to teach my dog to help me. I will not take my dog anywhere he is not already allowed until I have a paper from the doctor saying I should.

I am going to teach my dog to alert me when people are approaching because if I don't notice them and they surprise me especially if they touch me I will freak out.
I am going to teach my dog to circle me on cue to keep people away from me when I need to go to a crowded place.
I am going to teach my dog to stand as a barrier between me and other people on cue that way people won't touch me when I'm on an elevator or in a crowded room.
I am also going to teach my dog to find the car in the parking lot for me because I can barely ever remember where it is and if I can't find it I freak out and depending on how long it takes to find it I start crying because I can't find it and I am also afraid of walking around in parking lots.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I don't think a person has to be agoraphobic for their disability to "count".


I only mentioned agoraphobia for a specific example. The general gist was that I think she may need to be more impaired than she currently is to qualify for an SD. That said, as a whole, it is not my call.

And I am definitely no stranger to panic attacks.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

So what about my tasks do you think? If my doctor agreed that is. I will still train him to do them anyway just for when we are out somewhere where he is allowed and it would be good for him to learn more things.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

wvasko said:


> Well I think training your dog till your eyeballs hurt and then purchasing or making a service dog vest and have a go at it. If I have the correct understanding it's against the law for anybody to stop or question/challenge you in any way. The dog has to be trained and socialized and you are in business. I would pop a backpack on him to make him look more official and even that can be trained at home.


Actually to my understanding you CAN be questioned to what the dog does for you to qualify as a SD, once the question is answered it can't be pushed any further. Some places train people in the proper protocol (I know SeaWorld and the San Diego Zoo did) and ONLY those who were trained could question.

BTW, Xeph I may be contacting you soon to ask questions about training a dog for balance tasks. It's very possible my hubby may qualify for a SD since it's been determined he has partial paralysis and balance will be one of the tasks he'll need a SD for (the others will be picking up objects and asst in getting up/down), as well as bouncing ideas for other tasks to train for. We're tryi g to determine what breed we want (most likely it'll be a giant breed due to DH hieght).


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Xeph said:


> I do suppose that it could be interpreted that way...don't think I've thought of it that way before. I was taught (and inferred) that cue equated to a verbal cue/command


So, if a person falls unconscious, and the dog goes and gets help or pushes the emergency button on the phone, is that a verbal cue?


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

Xeph, I've talked to her privately, and she is most certainly considered disabled by her anxiety. The tasks she listed are just to start out. 

I'm in full agreement with chaoticborders and DarkEyedReina, both seasoned service dog handlers.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> Actually to my understanding you CAN be questioned to what the dog does for you to qualify as a SD, once the question is answered it can't be pushed any further. Some places train people in the proper protocol (I know SeaWorld and the San Diego Zoo did) and ONLY those who were trained could question.
> 
> BTW, Xeph I may be contacting you soon to ask questions about training a dog for balance tasks. It's very possible my hubby may qualify for a SD since it's been determined he has partial paralysis and balance will be one of the tasks he'll need a SD for (the others will be picking up objects and asst in getting up/down), as well as bouncing ideas for other tasks to train for. We're tryi g to determine what breed we want (most likely it'll be a giant breed due to DH hieght).


Well I know next to nothing about this stuff just what I've read here and I can understand the asking of questions but I understood once you say yes it is a service dog not much else is possible for the questioner.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

This is not my opinion. Actually the manager of our local Safeway has a Service Dog that alerts to seizures. This dog was trained by a nationally recognized service dog training center. It is most definately a task as defined by the Justice Dept. If you want to get technical, then the alert is not the task-its what the dog does to alert the owner that is a task. If we were to use your narrow definition of "task" then many of us would lose our service dogs. My lab/pit mix does the same thing as your Shepherd. Apparently that's not a task because he does it naturally- "no one knows why". Its all semantics and not conducive to a positive discussion. My advice to the original post was to do the research and work through it step by step. I also referred her to a 5013C group that uses service dogs for pyschiatric conditons -again, not my opinion. Its easy to be obstructive. I prefer to use information and facts to help people investigate their options.

That's why I referred the original poster to a group that trains psych dogs and to the Justice Dept. website. This is all clearly spelled out. Yes, you could fake it I suppose, but if you watch real service dogs in action-including psych. dogs, you can easily see the difference, especially in public. My dog is so intent on me when he's working that he doesn't even sniff at the meat section in the grocery store or the candy racks in the checkout aisles where he works with his leash draped over his back so my hands can be free. He pays no attention to anyone who tries to pet him or children who grab at his ears and tail. These days most business owners are familiar with service dogs and can deal with those that clearly aren't working. The vests are pretty expensive and like having a cane, using a dog is a bit slower. They'd be in trouble the first time their dog grabbed something or peed on something. I can't see anyone doing it for long. 
One poster noted that she had quit a site for questioning some things and having opinions. That's mostly what happened here. Some trainers and some service dog owners get really defensive and try to claim that no one else can possibly have/train a dog for any other purpose than their narrowly defined tasks. I always wish I could send them a valium through the internet! We're just disabled people making our lives easier and we use facts not opinions.

You are correct-its all word play.


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## dmickle1 (Jun 19, 2011)

RubyFeuer said:


> Thanks again ^^ I might be moving to Michigan soon do you know anything about how they are there?


Like others have mentioned, service dogs are governed by Federal Laws, therefore the laws won't change with a state to state move. However, having worked retail in Michigan, I can tell you that we were absolutely not allowed to question someone about their Service Animal in any way. A gentleman who frequently visited one of my stores claimed his Doberman was a service dog and we could do nothing to stop him. It wasn't ever a problem because the dog never caused any disruption or harm to anyone.



RubyFeuer said:


> I just wanted to say that I just woke up and I tried to read all of the replies, but I might not have grasped them completely. That being said I just wanted to state the tasks I have decided to teach my dog to help me. I will not take my dog anywhere he is not already allowed until I have a paper from the doctor saying I should.
> 
> I am going to teach my dog to alert me when people are approaching because if I don't notice them and they surprise me especially if they touch me I will freak out.
> I am going to teach my dog to circle me on cue to keep people away from me when I need to go to a crowded place.
> ...


The first three sound like very good and reasonable tasks. Locating your car in a parking lot may not be a very realistic task, however, of course depending upon what you mean by "finding". 

Honestly, I think you should find a SD trainer or facility in your area and inquire about qualifications. Also, definitely talk to your doctor and speak to him/her about ways your dog could possibly help you to avoid public situations which may trigger your anxiety.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

Check out the pych dogs. I think you have a good start but your goals need to be refined. You can't use a dog to circle you and keep people away because service dogs have to be able to be handled by strangers. They're not guard dogs. An unbelievable number of people grab and pet my dog although his vest clearly says "do not pet". Perhaps your dog could move in and make contact with your hand with his nose-a cue to use calming techniques you learn with a therapist. Same with the barrier task. Maybe just train the dog to work-that is walk/heel or both sides of you-to switch sides on command. Remember your dog is there to assist you, not to do something to other people, like keep them back. I wish we could train the whole general public but its not possible!
Finally-remember that you do not have to have permission from a doctor to have a service dog. Start with really good obedience training. You can start on that today! And please do google "service dogs". There are so many sites to explain the law, and help you define tasks. http://www.usdoj.gov is a good place to start. Put service dogs in their search bar. There is a really good brochure "Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

alison4 said:


> Check out the pych dogs. I think you have a good start but your goals need to be refined. You can't use a dog to circle you and keep people away because service dogs have to be able to be handled by strangers. They're not guard dogs. An unbelievable number of people grab and pet my dog although his vest clearly says "do not pet". Perhaps your dog could move in and make contact with your hand with his nose-a cue to use calming techniques you learn with a therapist. Same with the barrier task. Maybe just train the dog to work-that is walk/heel or both sides of you-to switch sides on command. Remember your dog is there to assist you, not to do something to other people, like keep them back. I wish we could train the whole general public but its not possible!
> Finally-remember that you do not have to have permission from a doctor to have a service dog. Start with really good obedience training. You can start on that today! And please do google "service dogs". There are so many sites to explain the law, and help you define tasks. http://www.usdoj.gov is a good place to start. Put service dogs in their search bar. There is a really good brochure "Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business.


Not circle aggressively or growl at people or anything, just walk around me to make a "barrier" type thing. My dog is still completely friendly and will go to anyone. It would pretty much be a visual barrier for people to see and hopefully know I don't want people near me.
And he wouldn't be doing anything to other people. That thing where he would stand and brace if someone were to bump him is used by people who have that condition where if they get touched it is very painful so they have dogs trained to stand next to the person but be braced so if someone bumps into them they don't let them bump their partner.
I will take a look at that site and I knew that you didn't need to get a doctors advice to have one to have one, but I just thought that it would be beneficial in case I ever had to go to court because someone was being a jerk.
Also I have read in this thread that you need one to be considered eligible for a SD according to the ADA. Which is it?


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

The doctor's note is a good idea but not required unless you go to court. There, it is to help show proof of disability.

DMickle- it's actually not as hard to train as it sounds. I know many a handler who have trained there dogs to do this...myself included. 

Alison, most of PSDS's tasks will not hold up in the event that one needs to go to court. The founder's own dogs are not trained- I think that gives a valid indication of the organization.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

There is no doctor or place that make you eligible. If you have a diagnosed disability then you may have a service dog. Period. You do not need to provide that proof at any time. It is illegal for anyone to demand proof of disability-this would be a violation of medical privacy. You would not have to go to court. I just looked up the Justice Dept. brochure I mentioned. http://www.ada.gov/archive/animal.htm The responses from this site are why its so very important that you gather info. and then join a site for people who have trained their own service dogs. They can give you the tips you need to get started.
The only people who sometimes fuss are businesses. When that happens you ask to see the manager, take down their name, and present them with the info. from the Justice Dept. Remind them that they are only allowed to ask if your dog is a Service Dog and what kind of Service dog-nothing else. Also, all businesses are required to know the law-no excuses. Of course I follow up with an explanation of what my dog does because education is always best.
Because of TV shows most people now know about SDs. I doubt you would have to do any explaining or hand out paperwork. The vest is not required but I can't imagine working without one because it so clearly marks your dog as an SD. I'll look up the site I use so you can have a look.
You really have to be careful about using your dog as a barrier. I can hear your panic but that goal still needs to be refined. (I've done a lot of advocacy work w/people with mental illness so I really understand). Pretty much employees now know my dog but the public still constantly approaches. The dog actually brings them in more, not less. Try not to get overwhelmed by the big picture. Remember that you can start small. My first time out with my SD I went to my medical doctor who knew what I was doing. Then I tried Sears on a weekday when hardly anyone was there. As I gained confidence I took him more and more places. Nugget's former owners tried to fight him. (He's lab/pit). He wouldn't fight so he was used as a bait dog. He was kept on a chain in a backyard. He was afraid of anywhere new and drooled! It didn't take long to overcome those fears. Start w/ obedience training. Start small. They don't need to learn everything at once.

Its just a suggestion for one site to gather info. The poster is just beginning with the idea. I'm trying to find the bulletin board for people who train their own service dogs. I used this in the beginning even though I'm a dog trainer. She really just needs a lot of info. right now. I trained my own SD and you're right-its not that hard. I'd like to take credit for many of the tasks my dog preforms but really all I did was refine what he does naturally. What kind of SD do you have? I have a service dog but I also own 4 huskies. I call them my useless dogs! lol!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> So, if a person falls unconscious, and the dog goes and gets help or pushes the emergency button on the phone, is that a verbal cue?


The dog has to be trained to learn to do this. They would use verbal cues to teach him to push the button, then teach him the physical cue of the person falling. The person can still feel week and tell the dog to push the button, so it is a demonstratable task. You can't demonstrate having a seizure in a court room though 9 times out of 10. You can't tell the dog to alert to a seizure, it's not something trainable.



RubyFeuer said:


> So what about my tasks do you think? If my doctor agreed that is. I will still train him to do them anyway just for when we are out somewhere where he is allowed and it would be good for him to learn more things.


Your doctor can't just agree that you could use a dog, you have to be diagnosed DISABLED for anything to take merit.



Julee and Embyr said:


> Xeph, I've talked to her privately, and she is most certainly considered disabled by her anxiety. The tasks she listed are just to start out.
> 
> I'm in full agreement with chaoticborders and DarkEyedReina, both seasoned service dog handlers.


You can't decide that she is considered disabled, only a doctor can, and the OP has repeatedly been told about needing to be disabled and she admits she is not. If the doctor decides she is disabled, she could have a service dog. Until then, she can train her dog to help her and take him where he's allowed as a PET, and if she every becomes disabled, can then use him as a service dog.


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

Actually, only the courts can decide if you're disabled. Doctors vary wildly, some may blow you off, some may say you're fine, some may say you are disabled, some may try to hospitalize you, some may try to medicate you.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

Ha found it! nucapes.com There are some good bulletin boards for people who train their own service dogs. Can everyone post their favorite sites? I haven't used them for so long that I can't find them yet again. Once you know your rights and responsibilities these sites are great for tips on defining goals, and training. You won't agree with everything on them but they help to set up your own program for training. Nothing is wrong with using a center that specializes in training SDs. They're just so expensive that most people can't afford them. My dog was abandoned with me years ago. I noticed that when I went to get up from the floor he would automatically move in and brace himself. Dogs are amazing!


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

Alison, what favorite sites? Gear, forums, info...? I have a bunch I could post


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Thank you for that site I will certainly check it out. There is so much information I just wish that a lot of it wasn't contradicting.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm sorry-you've obviously had a rough time of it. It is hard to find a good doctor who will work with you in full partnership. For the purpose of having a Service Dog though, you don't need a court to determine disability. Technically you don't even need a doctor. With a service dog you might have to do things backwards. Train and start working your dog-then educate your doctor.


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## aBlueDog (Feb 14, 2011)

I have nothing to add by way of sd stuff... but ruby, have you been tested for autism? Much of what you say you fear, seems like autism to me, not wanting to be touched, trouble with social interaction, anxiey when faced with social situations... Seems much like high functioning austism, or at least my experience with it.


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## alison4 (Dec 14, 2010)

Learn your rights and responsibilities through the Justice Dept. Then start nailing down the basic obedience. Take your time defining your tasks. If you take small steps you won't be so overwhelmed by the big picture. Everyone with a disability unfortunately has been challenged by "the system" in some way. Facts get skewed. That's why I recommend looking at other sites. Certain consistancies will come through and you'll find your way. I'm going to shut up now-I'm very passionate about helping people make their lives better and being positive doing it. I do tend to run on! Take some time and mull it all over.


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## Julee and Embyr (Jun 26, 2011)

alison4 said:


> I'm sorry-you've obviously had a rough time of it. It is hard to find a good doctor who will work with you in full partnership. For the purpose of having a Service Dog though, you don't need a court to determine disability. Technically you don't even need a doctor. With a service dog you might have to do things backwards. Train and start working your dog-then educate your doctor.


This is how I ended up doing it, the "backwards" way. To clarify, I wasn't saying that you should go to a court to determine if you're disabled or not...just that if it came down to it, they were the ones that decided.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

alison4 said:


> Learn your rights and responsibilities through the Justice Dept. Then start nailing down the basic obedience. Take your time defining your tasks. If you take small steps you won't be so overwhelmed by the big picture. Everyone with a disability unfortunately has been challenged by "the system" in some way. Facts get skewed. That's why I recommend looking at other sites. Certain consistancies will come through and you'll find your way. I'm going to shut up now-I'm very passionate about helping people make their lives better and being positive doing it. I do tend to run on! Take some time and mull it all over.


She doesn't have any rights under the ADA if she's not disabled though!


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

aBlueDog said:


> I have nothing to add by way of sd stuff... but ruby, have you been tested for autism? Much of what you say you fear, seems like autism to me, not wanting to be touched, trouble with social interaction, anxiey when faced with social situations... Seems much like high functioning austism, or at least my experience with it.


I have past experiences that have turned me into the person I am today. I wasn't always like this.


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## CharlesC (Jan 30, 2020)

RubyFeuer said:


> Does anyone know if it would be possible to get a service dog for anxiety? I want to know because if I could I would like to get my dog Lucas qualified (after more training because I know he's not ready yet and he's still pretty young) as a service dog for me for anxiety. I can't even order food at a restaurant whether it's fast food or high quality.
> When I'm at a store where I can bring my dog I am totally confident and calm and I don't get anxious.
> When I can't bring him I practically freeze up and if anyone talks to me I get this terrible feeling in my stomach.
> So all that being said...what do you guys think. I know at least a few of you on here have experience with service dogs and all that so I was hoping you guys could all help me out with figuring this out.
> Thank you in advance.





RubyFeuer said:


> Does anyone know if it would be possible to get a service dog for anxiety? I want to know because if I could I would like to get my dog Lucas qualified (after more training because I know he's not ready yet and he's still pretty young) as a service dog for me for anxiety. I can't even order food at a restaurant whether it's fast food or high quality.
> When I'm at a store where I can bring my dog I am totally confident and calm and I don't get anxious.
> When I can't bring him I practically freeze up and if anyone talks to me I get this terrible feeling in my stomach.
> So all that being said...what do you guys think. I know at least a few of you on here have experience with service dogs and all that so I was hoping you guys could all help me out with figuring this out.
> Thank you in advance.


Yes you can get a service dog for anxiety. I have anxiety from a stroke. I got a puppy Chihuahua and trained her myself. I shake and breath heavier. So I trained her to come ruñing if breathing sounds deep. I shake my leg and she hits it telling me to sit down. Brought her to Petco to see how she was around other people, dog, animals. No barking, no growling, was well behaved . A month later I brought her to Walmart. Again no barking or growling, well behaved and was good. Took across the street to Dollar Tree and again very well mannered. I trained her in obedience to sit, down, and not to eat food unless told in is OK. I have anxiety, but also have a neurological problem from a severe stroke. Heavy breathing mimics a lot of things. Heart attack, panic attack, anxiety attack . But the service dog must be trained to your specific needs and disability. But it takes working daily and giving treats when she does good. Each State has rules on Service Dogs. The ADA has rules. One can't just get a untrained dog and claim it works for you. You must train it. Too Missouri Missy qualifies as a Service Dog. Too the ADA she does also. A dog must perform a task to be a service dog. Neither the State of Missouri nor ADA says a dog must learn a specific number of task to qualify. You can train a dog yourself. There are no papers of certification in the US. The internet scams people into certifying their dog, but the ADA says this is a scam. You service dog will require shots still


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## CharlesC (Jan 30, 2020)




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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

CharlesC said:


> View attachment 261993


You're responding to a 9 year old thread.


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