# Weruva: Quality vs. Politics



## waterkeeper03 (Aug 18, 2009)

Let me start by saying I work for a small, natural/holistic retailer in the south east US. I hope it is not against any forum rules for me to do a little market research here.
We are pretty picky about the foods that we carry, and the reasons why we select them, and turn them away.

Weruva brand has been scratching at my door for quite some time now trying to get us to bring in their food. Most petfood companies will not come back after getting turned down, but they are persistent, and I kinda like that.

We have been turning down some really great deals from them, based on 1 simple fact. The label reads "Product Of Thailand"

Those of you using natural/holistic commercial food, Is it more important for you to see the American Flag on your product, or is a good ingredient label enough for you?

I would also like to know if any of you have stopped using Weruva, and why?

any input on the product or your experience is appreciated.

thank you, 
Chris


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I highly prefer food that is made in Canada and all the ingredients are sourced from Canada. A lot of food companies have their kibble made in the US or whatever but their meat comes from China.

I only trust companies that have their meat sourced from the US or Canada.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

I feel the same as Michiyo. I would not buy food that was not sourced from Canada (or the US).


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

It isn't a question of politics. It's a question of accountability.

It's not terribly helpful, if your dog is sick or dead, to have the petfood company tell you, "Oops, we didn't know the Chinese were putting Melamine in the corn gluten we used."


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

the "made in thailand" will definitely make me steer clear from the food.

i am not racist or anything, but laws in most asian countries are really loose and not enforced properly.

there are often food that they claim to have, but are NOT actually in the food.
example. they claim to have chicken, but instead its soybean thats made to resemble chicken.

they often claim to not include certain stuff in foods, but actually are present. example: meat by-products.

i am not talking about just dog foods solely. the above examples i mentioned are actually actual cases for human canned food.

its like no one cares down there.....even when someone does die, they get away with a fine, and life continues happily ever after until the next incident happens again. i grew up in china and stayed there till i was 11.


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

The location of where the meat or said meat would be an issue and also I looked at the companies website.Lots of the food pictures seem to be full of rice.
I also feel that this company is basically trying to 1 up Merrick because of the names they're using which would also deter me. 
Sure maybe the consumer that doesn't take the time or doesn't know would buy this thinking it is some super quality ultra-premium food because of the fancy names. But I dont see where it is really something to rant and rave about.
I mean Jammin Salmon looks like watery soup though I guess they call it gravy. Most things have "gravy"according to their descriptions.Cost would be another issue,dog food that boasts shrimp,calamari,mackeral. That stuff has got to be expensive.
To me the food just seems to be geared to consumers that just want to feed their pet some food that has a fancy name.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

my bully sticks come from brasil. otherwise, my food comes from the usa or canada or australia or new zealand.


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## Ruffrider25 (Apr 28, 2010)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I highly prefer food that is made in Canada and all the ingredients are sourced from Canada. A lot of food companies have their kibble made in the US or whatever but their meat comes from China.
> 
> I only trust companies that have their meat sourced from the US or Canada.


Feel the same as Michiyo-Fir. I just found out last week that the Beneful I was giving my dog was crap. Just from the reading I've done in the past week I know I would never buy a dog food labeled as "Product Of Thailand".


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> my food comes from the usa or canada or australia or new zealand.


i know new zealand and australia has one of the strictest laws worldwide.
canada and the US are pretty strict as well, and definitely better compared to most asian and south american nations. I am not being racist or anything.
Just too many issues and not risk the gamble.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Oh I trust Australia, New Zealand and England as well. I just bought some Ziwipeak and it's made and sourced from New Zealand.


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## BentletheYentle (Oct 6, 2008)

momof3 said:


> Cost would be another issue,dog food that boasts shrimp,calamari,mackeral. That stuff has got to be expensive.


It is quite expensive. The store I work at carried it for a little while, but our shelf price was anywhere from $2.99 to $3.99 a can. Needless to say, it didn't sell so we stopped carrying it.


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## Danvers (Aug 21, 2009)

I would not buy pet food made in Asia. Not a matter of politics, but of safety. There have been too many cases of poisons in baby food and kids toys - if they can't keep that stuff safe, I can't even imagine what they think is acceptable to put in dog food.


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## waterkeeper03 (Aug 18, 2009)

It is actually a matter of politics, and my original assumption about the label holds true..

Thailand = Asia = China and that's how everyone looks at it.

accountability: Truth be told, Thailand has never had a recall on their food products, but mentally they are classified with China and thus untrustworthy.... this was my assumption.

any of you who believe american food is more "trustworthy" should sign up for the FDA recall alerts. 

I do appreciate all your responses, it does lead me to believe that the product would be a bad business decision.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

I actually agree with you on the "Thailand = Asia = China" thing, however, the fact that Thailand has never had a recall is not the point.

The point is that most Asian countries are poor and corruption is RAMPANT. Probably much, much more so than in the US. For that reason, foods are probably not inspected as closely as they should be, and manufacturing facilities are definitely not on par with those from NZ, UK, or Canada. 

I'm not saying this because I'm racist either. I'm from South East Asia, so I pretty much know what it's like there. I would probably never feed my dog something that's manufactured in any Asian country except for maybe South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan.

I'm in agreement with the others. I like foods that source their ingredients from Canada, UK, New Zealand, etc. I'd like to say that I'll probably put NZ on the top of that list as well.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

RonE said:


> It isn't a question of politics. It's a question of accountability.
> 
> It's not terribly helpful, if your dog is sick or dead, to have the petfood company tell you, "Oops, we didn't know the Chinese were putting Melamine in the corn gluten we used."


I have my own list of preferred countries of origin. I buy American for self interested economic reasons, with a secondary preference for Canadian products. I do buy some products made in Australia. For non-economic reasons I buy products made in Anglophone countries. The major English speaking countries are all afflicted with an unreasonable attachment to pets (especially dogs). They (we) all have substantially effective and comparatively uncorrupted regulatory regimes. It is the legacy of the British system we all share.


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## BobSD (Feb 1, 2008)

Not to upset the good people from Canada, ( my wife's parents are from PEI), But I buy only American Beef and especially bison. Remember Canada has that history of "Mad Cow Disease", I am not sure what there status is now, but I would take American beef over any other country, maybe its because I live in cattle country and see for myself how they are raised and especially what they are fed!!


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## emubird7120 (Mar 17, 2011)

I think most people don't have a clue to the quality of the foods their pets consume not to mention what they eat. They read something on the internet and it becomes gospel. The USA has had multiple recalls on its home grown meats, Thailand...NONE! A large percentage of seafoods come from THAILAND. I have attached a blog which includes a letter from Weruva that explains the situation, I believe very well.

You will also find the site dogfoodadvisor.com has good info on the food as well as Martha Stewarts pet experts also recommend this company as well.
I just feel all info is needed to make good decissions.

Any Doubts About Weruva’s Food Made in Thailand?
Wednesday, January 21st, 2009 
Hi there – I just love your show and yes I do own both the Cat and Dog “Bibles.” I read them quite often for advice unlike some books where the info is so limited you never refer to it again.

I had no problem switching the cats from ugly carbs to wet food and started using Weruva. I read their website however I am nervous using food made in Thailand. Is there any cat food out there that is made in the ole USA??

Thanks for all your animal love and advice
Marylou

Well, my dear Marylou and others who want to see how seriously the great Weruva family takes your concerns – look at the depth of information they shared with me immediately. Is it any wonder I love this cat food and this company so much? Good golly, they simply amaze me. Here’s what David Forman, the owner, wrote back:

Thank you for the email to Weruva. As pet owners ourselves, we genuinely appreciate your inquiry. Regarding our choice of Thailand as a place of manufacture, there are several reasons for our decision, yet price was not one of those reasons. As you have noted, our prices are not inexpensive, and the quality control measures under which we operate are reflected in the price.

With that said, we are very fortunate to have our manufacturing partner in Thailand, and we have the deepest trust in their quality control measures. The foundation of this trust was established decades ago by a relationship that my father started with them in the late 1970’s. Our sister company, started by my father, has been producing human food in this facility for years. If you look around the supermarket, you may be surprised to learn that much of the food for people has been produced in Thailand, such as fish and fruit. In fact, the US imports about 80% of its fish with the majority coming from Thai plants. If you eat fish at a restaurant, there is a strong chance that it was caught in Pacific waters and processed in an Asian plant.

Thailand is a huge world leader when it comes to producing food for human consumption around the globe. Our factory is ISO9001 certified, which means it shares a similar “language” to that of other ISO9001 plants around the world. ISO stands for International Organization For Standardization, which essentially means that all certified factories are on the same page and that, for instance, “free range” here means “free range” there

Moreover, the USFDA recognizes the Thai FDA, and our plant is USDA certified. In a nutshell, the US believes that our plant produces foods up to US standards. The FDA has gone in there and completed inspections to their satisfaction. In addition, the strictest human food processing standard is arguably that of the UK, the British Retail Consortium (BRC). Our factory earned an “A” on the BRC standard, making it not only one of the safest places in the world to make pet food, but making it one of the safest places in the world to make human food!

As we learned with the recall, close to 100 brands of pet food were produced in one facility. In contrast, my father’s company has the exclusive contract of all human food entering the US from this facility. We are not just another number in the production line. In fact, his biggest customer, the Subway Sandwich chain, awarded my father’s company as Vendor of the Millennium, which was based upon the quality of products produced for humans in these facilities over the course of 30+ years.

While we would like to think US produced foods are the safest, statistics illustrate that we are unfortunately not the safest when it comes to manufacturing food. For instance, over 100 brands of US produced pet food were recalled last year while no brands experienced a recall from Thailand. In addition, there are currently multiple active recalls on US produced beef, chicken and pork, and that only goes back to May of this year ( www.fsis.usda.gov/fsis_recalls/open_federal_cases/index.asp). In addition, a few months back, Whole Foods had a recall of US produced beef from Coleman, the same company that supplies beef to some US pet food manufacturers (www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/12/business/12food.php). In February of this year, the largest US beef recall in history occurred in California where 143 million pounds of beef were recalled!

As mentioned, Thailand is a world leader when it comes to food production for humans. Also as mentioned, the USFDA recognizes the Thai FDA. This notion carries over to a similar branch in Thailand called the Department of Livestock Development (DLD). The DLD is similar to our USDA. The DLD sets forth certain processing guidelines. On top of being antibiotic free, hormone free and free range, our chicken, for instance, is also DLD certified.

Part of our dog food line produced in the US. While it is made under great safety measures, our food produced in Thailand is done so under far greater scrutiny. Ultimately, our food produced in Thailand would be “safer” than our food produced in the US.

We encourage pet owners to contact manufacturers and inquire about safety measures. We urge them to focus on the company and their processes rather than country of production. If we look around in the news, we do not have to look far to the see recalls occurring in the US with frequency (http://www.fda.gov/opacom/7alerts.html). A few months ago, US based Hartz pet products recalled one of its US produced items for cats because of salmonella. As mentioned, a few months back, the largest beef recall in American history occurred in California. Headlines a few months back indicated that our country’s drinking water contains trace amounts of oodles of prescription drugs!

I hope this has been helpful. Please let us know if you have further questions.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

I feed Weruva to my cats and they love it!! I probably wouldn't buy food made in China but Thailand sure. I don't think the US is as stringent as in Canada - heck Canada won't allow Purina NF. As for Canada having 'mad cow disease', I just watched a program that showed how you can't determine if a cow had this disease until after it's dead. As a result, many cows affected with this disease can enter any country. The US probably hasn't found any cases yet as they are not as stringent as Canada. 

Thailand does not equal China - I don't remember any big scandals about pet food or infant formula coming from Thailand. The US has more recalls on both human and pet food. So really, do you know where your food, let alone your pet's food is coming from? Did you know that Junior Mints has shellac and shellac is made from a beetle (one whose name has 'lac' in it)? Oh yes, apples have shellac on them too. What about the dyes on the food? Do you know where they come from? Based on the type of the type of food colouring, it is derived from a particular type of insect. Did you know that the FDA allows a certain amount of hair and insect parts in your food? Hell, the FDA allows companies to quote the calories of a food plus or minus 25 calories so the low cal yogurt you eat could be 25 calories higher! This has nothing to do with the main subject of our conversation but it just demonstrates how we are tricked into believing that these organizations are protecting our food..


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Canada having 'mad cow disease', I just watched a program that showed how you can't determine if a cow had this disease until after it's dead. As a result, many cows affected with this disease can enter any country. The US probably hasn't found any cases yet as they are not as stringent as Canada.


Plus, in the 2003 case, which is probably what is being referenced here, the cow was most likely infected by contaminated food purchased from the US. Canada was unnecessarily vilified by the US in that case.


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

Completely agree with Emubirds post. For reasons listed above, this is why we are happy to carry the Weruva products at my store. I also work at a small holistic/natural pet supply store. We are very careful with the prodouts that we carry and we happily carry Weruva and I feed it to my own 4 cats. Since bringing it in it is literally flying off the shelves and the quality, IMO, is one of the best out there.


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## shellbeme (Sep 9, 2010)

emubird7120 said:


> I think most people don't have a clue to the quality of the foods their pets consume not to mention what they eat. They read something on the internet and it becomes gospel. The USA has had multiple recalls on its home grown meats, Thailand...NONE! A large percentage of seafoods come from THAILAND. I have attached a blog which includes a letter from Weruva that explains the situation, I believe very well.



So I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another but..... a company that has had NO recalls what so ever-in an area of the world that isn't so well known for enforcement of quality on it's products does not really sound like a good thing to me. To me that might mean there are several things being pushed under the radar and god knows what's really going on. Not saying it's a bad company-I really don't have any experience with it, but no recalls, to me, isn't necissarily a good thing. I mean, if I'm not checkin' and I don't care, I'm not going to recall anything....


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

shellbeme said:


> So I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another but..... a company that has had NO recalls what so ever-in an area of the world that isn't so well known for enforcement of quality on it's products does not really sound like a good thing to me. To me that might mean there are several things being pushed under the radar and god knows what's really going on. Not saying it's a bad company-I really don't have any experience with it, but no recalls, to me, isn't necissarily a good thing. I mean, if I'm not checkin' and I don't care, I'm not going to recall anything....


That's exactly what I was thinking about the lack of recalls. I trust American/Canadian food products because there ARE recalls, and they aren't because of huge life threatening problems, but things like lower vitamin "x" levels than guaranteed.. things that won't kill your dog over night, or even in several months.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Plus, in the 2003 case, which is probably what is being referenced here, the cow was most likely infected by contaminated food purchased from the US. Canada was unnecessarily vilified by the US in that case.


The US has plenty of problems, but, BSE is more of a Canadian problem than a US problem (thus far...).

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/


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## BeyondBlessed (Jan 25, 2011)

I have no opinion on the food itself, but to say you won't feed it because it comes from Thailand seems a bit ridiculous. I work in a food processing plant. Most of the beef you get in processed foods, like a can of beef stew for example, comes from Brazil. Sometimes we get it from a company in Kentucky, and I can tell you the stuff from Brazil is of a noticeably higher quality. If you don't think the USDA inspects it close enough, you're probably right, but realize the food you eat yourselves is not getting much more attention. It seems they just walk on the trailer it comes in and shine a flashlight around, because when they turn something away its usually because of bugs or infestation on the trailer. I'm not saying the company I work for doesn't do a good job, but other agencies like the CFIA and EU inspectors, and especially SQF which is a private company hired by food companies to inspect suppliers and manufacturers, have higher standards than the USDA. With a global economy you can rest assured that multiple agencies make visits and any one has the power to shut a plant down, and in meat and poultry facilities I'm pretty sure they have to be there 24/7.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Originally Posted by shellbeme 
So I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another but..... a company that has had NO recalls what so ever-in an area of the world that isn't so well known for enforcement of quality on it's products does not really sound like a good thing to me. To me that might mean there are several things being pushed under the radar and god knows what's really going on. Not saying it's a bad company-I really don't have any experience with it, but no recalls, to me, isn't necissarily a good thing. I mean, if I'm not checkin' and I don't care, I'm not going to recall anything....

You have a point but do you know for a fact that Thailand is not strict in their food standards? One cannot assume since a country is closer in proximity to China that it has the same low standards. Don't put all Asians in one bucket. Weruva (the name is a blend of the owner's kids' names I believe) is a fairly young company so who knows, problems may arise in the future but don't assume that because it comes from an Asian country, the standards are lower. The US' standards are lower than Canada's - we won't even let Purina NF here (have I mentioned that already? Sorry if I did) and it's not an Asian country. China was the one poisoning animals and infants with melamine; not Thailand. I am a second generation Asian, a mix of Filipino and Cambodian but have dual citizenship in the US and Canada. I cannot stand it when people paint all Asians a certain way just because one Asian country did something horrible, just like I don't appreciate it when people paint all Americans as ignorant. I get offended when people say, 'oh those Americans" or "do you Canadians go to work on skis?" With China's reputation, it would be wise to question the quality assurance of the food but until there is proof that Thailand is the same, don't assume.


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## catfan141 (Apr 7, 2013)

This is an alert for anyone currently feeding a diet of Weruva to their cats. The short story: Weruva products gave our totally healthy, 8 year old cat kidney failure. He is now in hospital with CREA (toxicity levels) 5 times the healthy amount (his levels are 11.1 - most cats dies before their levels get this high) and basically what would have been a long healthy life has just been cut short. 

The long story:
My husband and I fed Weruva to our 8 yr old, healthy kitty for about 8 months. We switched to Weruva from EVO because of concern over the levels of ash in EVO. For the first 6 months we fed half Weruva (a mix of all varieties) and half Stella and Chewy's raw patties (which we've done for a long time). He seemed to be doing well, although seemed a little bit malnourished, like he wasn't getting all the nutrients he needed (we kept finding him licking the cast iron pan on the stove, for e.g. - we now know he was becoming anemic, and was probably liking the pan for iron). We took him to the vet, and got him tested. All was okay, except his kidney values were a little high - his CREA and BUN especially. We brought him in for a urine sample a month later. His urine tested well, highly concentrated. Here's what went wrong - we ran out of the Stella & Chewy patties, & they're not easy to get in our neighborhood so we stopped feeding them to him for a while. We were stressed out in our jobs and (we are kicking ourselves) didn't make time to pick up the patties. So he began an ONLY Weruva diet. At the same time, we were so busy we needed to order from wag.com, so we order Weruva in bulk. They only kinds they had in bulk? The seafood kinds. Mack n Jack, Polynesian BBQ, and Asian Fusion. All of these contain the artificial "vitamin K" supplement menadione sodium bisulfate, and have very high phosphorus levels. 

What happened next? Within 2 - 3 weeks of being on the only Weruva diet major kidney failure symptoms started. He stopped eating all the food on his plate, but we was begging for food. In the last week he was thirsty all the time. His haunches became stooped. In the 3rd week we finally realized something was wrong (we are kicking ourselves, again, that it took us so long to realize this). We took him to the vet as soon as possible, and that's when we found out he had 80% - 90% kidney failure. The vet told us we should put him down, or opt for expensive emergency therapy - we opted for the therapy, and thankfully his levels are dropping, but he may not live much more than a few months longer. 

Meanwhile, we thought we should warn our good friends who were also feeding their cat the Weruva-only diet. As soon as we realized what had happened - what the culprit might be for our cat's sudden, dramatic kidney failure, we got in contact with our friends who we hadn't seen in a long time (they'd just had a baby). Sadly, they reported that their also young (younger than our cat) kitty had liver disease - he had just been diagnosed. They too had stopped feeding their cat Weruva. 

How could this happen to very healthy, active, young cats who were apparently eating the healthiest diet possible? Answer: Menadione Sodium Bisulfate, which quickly damaged our kitty's organs, in tandem with the very high phosphorus levels.

Menadione Sodium Bisulfate is the only Vitamin K supplement that AAFCO approves, but it's safety for pets is "not known," (although many people are of the opinion that is is highly toxic for pets), it is known to be toxic (and fatal) to humans. Several experts consider that it is dangerous for many of the major organs, including kidneys, liver. Here are some linke for more info: 

http://www.naturalnews.com/024244_food_pet_sodium.html

ttp://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/menadione-in-dog-food/

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-only-approved-vitamin-k-supplement-in-pet-food/

some of the negative effects of menadione are…
• causes cytotoxicity in liver cells
• damages the natural vitamin K cycle
• causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses
• is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K
• has never been researched or specifically approved for long term use, such as in pet food
• FDA has banned synthetic vitamin K from over-the-counter supplements because of its high toxicity

http://cats.about.com/b/2009/04/06/menadione-sodium-bisulfite-complex.htm

A report at Oregon State University that mentions mendione toxicity
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminK/index.html#food_sour

Here Weruva owner David Forman explains why Weruva chooses to use Menadione: 
http://www.traciehotchner.com/blog/533/why-is-menadione-in-weruva/

Note that at the end of his comment, he states: "if we didn't put it in we would have to label the cans 'for intermittent feeding only'," because AAFCO requires the supplement to be in seafood cans if it's labeled a 'complete food.' 
It seems to us that that's the real reason Weruva choose to keep menadione in their products. If we had seen an 'intermittent feeding only label, we would have fed our cat Weruva less often (and he would not be in hospital right now - though perhaps in time the same problem would have developed.) That is what Weruva wants to avoid - people using their cat food less often. The ethical choice would have been to leave out the menadione and label their food correctly, while taking up with AAFCO its lack of safe Vitamin K supplement approvals. 

One more note - we've spent over $500 on Weruva food in the past 8 months. And our hospital bill for this weekend, for our cat that may not survive? $2500 and counting. It's going to take months for us to recover from this financially, let alone the pain of losing our beloved pet to the greed of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Meanwhile Weruva hasn't lost any funds and continues to add a harmful ingredient to its cat food. 

We're pretty sure there's going to be an epidemic of Weruva-food related illnesses. As the product is on the market for a longer time, more and more cats are going to develop organ damage as a result of the diet. 

Why do pet food manufacturers (including these so-called 'organic' food manufacturers) and AAFCO have to play the waiting game with consumers, waiting until enough pets die until they are forced to change their ingredients and regulations?


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