# Ash Content - how much?



## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

How much ash content is too much in dry dog food? 

I understand through reading that some ash is necessary to make sure they are getting the required amount of minerals, but too much can put unneeded stress on the kidneys and can cause urinary problems. 

Does anyone know more about it and what an "acceptable" percentage is? I've found that if you email companies they will give you the ash content of their specific foods because it is not always listed on the ingredients panel. For example, is an ash content of 9% too high to be safe? 

I've also read that magnesium content itself may be more important to limit than ash overall. 

Any advice or suggestions? Thanks in advance!


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

If I count up all the mg of minerals Max requires that would be the ideal amount of ash present. Off the top of my head he needs 1gram calcium, .8gram phosphorus, 1gram potassium and maybe 500mg of assorted minerals. By a very strange coincidence his 300 grams of raw food happens to have just about 100 grams of dry matter so that adds up to an ideal 3.5-4% ash. Now the basic recipe I have for him in ND comes up with 5.5%, no idea where the rest comes from as it looks fine to me. Definitely less than 10%, that is for sure.

Watch out for excessive calcium, phosphorus and sodium too. Dogs need very little sodium but I did recently read that some is needed to properly digest kibbles and it may encourage the dog to drink more water. Meat meals tend to be far too high in calcium and phosphorus as they are prepared from bony leftovers. Calcium can bind with other minerals and cause trouble. Phosphorus can be hard on the kidneys.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Ash content:

The ash reported on a label represents the *cumulative total* of all the minerals found in that food.
Although a smaller amount can come from plant-based ingredients, most ash comes from the *bone content* and *minerals additives* in a product.
And much of those minerals include *calcium* and *phosphorus*.
In any case, the ash number by itself is not very revealing. Knowing the actual amount of each mineral included in the total ash figure would be much more useful.
And it can be especially important when feeding…


Growing *large breed puppies*
Dogs suffering from *kidney disease*
*What’s ‘Normal’ for Ash Content
in Dog Food?​*

The amount of ash *varies* from product to product.
In general, the average ash content of most commercial dog foods appears to be somewhere around *5-8 percent*1


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks for the help! So I'm thinking that around 5% is probably best, to stay on the lower end of what is deemed to be average.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

My understanding is that there isn't really a "definitive" standard for what is accepted. But that the higher the level, the more potential to be more taxing on the body over time. Apparently, 5% to 7% is good. 8% to 9% is on the high side and anything above that is very high and you should begin to wonder about the quality of meals and other animal ingredients used. Calcium and phosphorus levels should usually be under 1.5%.

This is something I learned about very recently, as well, and I think it's a very important part of a dog food. I think it should be required on the label.

Btw, VERY cute pup you've got in your signature!


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> My understanding is that there isn't really a "definitive" standard for what is accepted. But that the higher the level, the more potential to be more taxing on the body over time. Apparently, 5% to 7% is good. 8% to 9% is on the high side and anything above that is very high and you should begin to wonder about the quality of meals and other animal ingredients used. Calcium and phosphorus levels should usually be under 1.5%.
> 
> This is something I learned about very recently, as well, and I think it's a very important part of a dog food. I think it should be required on the label.
> 
> Btw, VERY cute pup you've got in your signature!


Thank you for the help! And thanks for the compliment  Your little one is adorable as well!


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## NewLabDoodle (Jun 20, 2011)

Anyone happen to know a good link that has various ash %s of grain-free dog foods? Is it true that grain-free by default will have higher ash levels?

"Ash" is too short a word for this forum's search function; just wondering if there is a quick resource of foods' ash content, or I can just go the old fashioned way and search for myself?

I had been feeding EBH foods in my dog's rotation as the price is just 'too good to be true' for the seemingly great quality, but now I see EBH has really high ash levels, so I'm now curious about this Ash issue... and the quality of the meats now used that impact ash? I've never really looked into ash content before.

I typically rotate the following grain free foods for our dog:  Orijen, Blue Buf Wilderness, Nature's Variety, Fromm & EBH.
I'm considering dropping EBH from the list? Now wondering which are the best/worst of my rotation? Our dog does great on rotating, never has issues transitioning between foods, and sometimes can change from one protein source and brand within a couple days. Duck and Fish are probably his favorite proteins.


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

NewLabDoodle said:


> Anyone happen to know a good link that has various ash %s of grain-free dog foods? Is it true that grain-free by default will have higher ash levels?
> 
> "Ash" is too short a word for this forum's search function; just wondering if there is a quick resource of foods' ash content, or I can just go the old fashioned way and search for myself?
> 
> ...


Through what I've read, it seems as though grain-free food often has higher ash content percentages. 

And I'm sorry for being dumb but does EBH stand for Earthborn Holistic? 

If so, I emailed them about their grain-free Meadow feast food specifically and the ash percentage is 9.1%. I decided that was much too high (wheatens can have kidney problems genetically. There is no cases of the diseases in Alannah's bloodline, but I still don't want to push the issue - so I don't want something that can be taxing on her kidneys) so I decided against Meadow feast. 

I started off feeding her Orijen but the protein level of it was too high for her to process, so I don't feed that anymore. I don't know about their ash content though. 

I just switched Alannah to Fromm's grain-free game bird recipe. The ash percentage in their grain-free foods is all around 6%. They publish the ash percentage on their website for each individual recipe. For example, http://frommfamily.com/products/four-star/dog/dry/grain-free-surf-turf click on View Detailed Analysis under Guaranteed Analysis and it shows you for each food they offer. 

I was unable to find anything on Blue Buffalo (I used to feed Freedom puppy) but did not try emailing the company. I also don't know about Nature's Variety. The protein level in that was too high also for my needs.


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## NewLabDoodle (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes, I was referring to Earthborn Holistic. I noticed in a different thread this topic of ash content was brought up, as I've fed our dog Primitive Natural and currently am feeding Great Plains (which he really liked immediately, and luckily has lower ash% among the brand). 

That's also really great to know that Fromm has such low ash%, I do like that company a lot. Based on our dog's love of food with Duck as first ingredient, I've been planning to add Game Bird to his rotation, as well as Surf and Turf. 

I know I want to stick with grain-free as ever since making that change, have noticed improved coat quality, stool efficiency, and typically the food is always eaten up.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Anything with calcium and phosphorus levels over 1.5% should be of concern. AAFCO states that a 1.6% MAXIMUM phosphorus level is the requirement. So if a food has "1.5% MINIMUM" I'd be very concerned. "Ash" is not typically on a dog food label. You have to e-mail the company and ask.... but some do list it (such as Fromm, so does Natura - Innova, EVO, etc). I think it should be a requirement on the label but I guess most people don't pay attention to it (I never did before).

Nature's Variety is pretty high on most of their formulas (particularly Instinct). But I've heard that's due to the Montmorillonite Clay? Not really sure on that one.

Yes, EB Primitive Natural is extremely high in ash (12%) and I would never feed it long-term personally. Makes you question the quality of meats being used as well. I don't think kidney damage is something to mess around with. Now, excess phosphorus most likely won't affect healthy dogs at all, however there is no guarantee that a dog will remain having healthy kidneys for all of its life... and most dogs will appear normal and have normal labs in the beginning of renal disease. It's not until the dog has lost 75% of kidney function that lab values even begin to elevate. So I just feel like why over-do phosphorus/ash, it's not really necessary and will most likely do more harm than good.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I was horrified at at how much extra calcium and phosphorus is in kibbles unless you go for the really cheap stuff with no meat meals. I can feed Max the amount he needs on a home cooked or raw diet better than find a kibble with the appropriate amount of mineral content. Part of the problem is the size and activity level of the dog. If your dog needs a lot of calories per pound then they will get higher minerals than they need. Even couch potato Max would get twice the mineral content he needs if he was fed most kibbles. To get the appropriate amount he would need a kibble of only about .75% calcium and .6% phosphorus if fed a 400 calorie per 100 gram kibble. 

The problem is the meat meals in kibble contains a lot of bone. I don't know if the whole meats that are cooked down have the same issue or not. What kibbles avoid the use of meals?


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## NewLabDoodle (Jun 20, 2011)

Orijen is at 7% for Six fish and 7.5% for Red and Adult 80/20.

Still looking for BB and NV, will have to email them.


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## Bones' Mom (Jan 21, 2013)

NewLabDoodle said:


> Yes, I was referring to Earthborn Holistic. I noticed in a different thread this topic of ash content was brought up, as I've fed our dog Primitive Natural and currently am feeding Great Plains (which he really liked immediately, and luckily has lower ash% among the brand).
> 
> That's also really great to know that Fromm has such low ash%, I do like that company a lot. Based on our dog's love of food with Duck as first ingredient, I've been planning to add Game Bird to his rotation, as well as Surf and Turf.
> 
> I know I want to stick with grain-free as ever since making that change, have noticed improved coat quality, stool efficiency, and typically the food is always eaten up.


I'm having issues with a rescue I just got few months ago. Seems that this poor little guy has a really bad kidney or bladder infection. The first round of antibiotics didn't help at all, I'm now on the second round of antibiotics that are supposed to be stronger. Also the vet asked what food I was feeding and I said "Fromm's" and he never heard of it. He prescribed Royal Canin Urninary SO along with the antibiotics and said to bring him back in a month. I purchased the RC, because I didn't know... Once I got it home, and read the list of ingrediants, it's nothing but grain! The vet said if Bones is better at the end of this month, he might have to be on RC for the rest of his life! I don't think so! I'm not feeding my dog that crap! Someone though, responding to my post in the health section said Fromm was high in ash. But after reading these posts and seeing that Fromm puts the ash content in their list of ingrediants, it shows the ash content as 5.62% "as-is" and 6.03 % "dry matter basis" and 1.54% "Dry Matter Basis
(grams/100 kcal)". I don't know, but following this thread, that doesn't sound high. She was saying a high ash content could cause or acerbate his infection. He was found a very emaciated stray with the rescue in August and I adopted him at the end of September. He showed signs of the infection right from day one when I got him, but I never had a dog with a UTI or bladder or kidney infection, so I didn't know what I was seeing until I finally brought him to the vet a couple of weeks ago. I did bring him to the vet just a week after I got him but they only did cursory check up when I told them he just received all his shots in August... Do you think I should continue the Fromm after he gets his clean bill of health?


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