# I'm not a "serious" handler



## packetsmom

and that's OK! 

I was a part of two conversations this weekend that really got me thinking about my dog, our relationship, and where dog sports fit into all that. The first one was a handler, a very good one, explaining that she does not talk to her dogs and any affection they receive must be earned through working. Another was another handler and breeder talking about one of his young females. She's a great dog, with an amazing personality, wonderful drive, and just a joy to be around and see work. He was saying that her OFA results this week will determine whether he'll be keeping her or selling her. Another moment was when a very high drive pup refused to leave the field, even when she knew her handler was leaving her there. To her, being on the field was more rewarding than anything the handler had to offer. (We eventually lured her off and everyone came up with ideas to improve her recall.)

I don't think either of these people are bad people and they're great with their dogs and treat them well. I just think that this sport is something very different for them than it is for me. I can understand why a breeder wouldn't be able to keep a dog that couldn't be bred and I'm sure he'll find her a good home if that's the case. I also can understand why a handler with several dogs she is preparing for the national level of competition might view her dogs differently than me and have a different relationship.

Still, I have to admit, in those moments, I realized that as much as I admire their work on the field...I'd really rather not BE them, if that makes sense. I'd rather have the relationship I have with my dog(s) and have them not perform at that high of a level or have to change sports because of hip issues. I'd rather deal with low drive issues than have a dog that would rather stay on the field than be with me.

In the end, I'm in my sport FOR my dog and BECAUSE of my dog, not for the sport itself and I'd rather sacrifice the sport than lose what I have with my dog, if that makes sense.

Has anyone else had any similar moments?


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## sassafras

Every time I place in the bottom 5 in a skijor race (which is every time) or celebrate a 71 in a rally trial.


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## packetsmom

sassafras said:


> Every time I place in the bottom 5 in a skijor race (which is every time) or celebrate a 71 in a rally trial.


 I pretty much acted like an idiot the first time we got Sam to play with a ball in protection practice. He'd never shown any interest at all in a ball and you would have thought he just did advanced algebra, I was so excited. LOL! On the bright side, I think the club enjoys and is amused by my enthusiasm.


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## petpeeve

Many times I've been awarded the extremely prestigious and highly-coveted *Low in Trial*, so I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about  eh.

But yeah, I'm more a weekend warrior type myself. And while high-level dog sports are an art form usually reserved for the flashy and mistake-free, the truly dedicated, I can still find ample room within my spirit to hold all of the competing dogs in high regard. And, find ample room on my couch at the end of the day for my own dogs regardless of ribbons or scores. I wouldn't .. actually I just plain _couldn't_ look at it any other way, myself. 

But like they say, different strokes ..............


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## Laurelin

I definitely see people in sports that I do not want to become. I have so much more respect for those that stick it out with their less than perfect dogs and do things with their dogs in mind. Fortunately, I think agility is much more forgiving to casual people. Almost everyone I know in it is doing agility with their pets. I mean.... agility can be very important to them but at the heart of it all, they're playing with their pets.


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## CptJack

I have these moments frequently on DF, to be honest. 

I'm serious about my dogs, yes, but I'm not serious about working them. My primary purpose for them, and what I choose them for, is the ability to go hiking with me and have an off leash recall. That's... really it. I mean I do a ton of trick training with Kylie and have her in some agility classes, but honestly ...

I'm there to play with the dog. I don't love it. I don't think it makes me a better owner, than if I competed with them. I'm not competitive. I don't want to be. I don't *care*. Hiking for 10 miles in the woods and throw a ball and take them swimming and activities to enrich their lives and mine, including some dog sports? Yes. 

Have them for the purpose of participating in dog sports? No. 

It's like... I have a dog who benefits from and enjoys agility, so I take them to agility. I wouldn't look for a dog because doing agility enhances MY life. It's okay that it does for other people! But it's just not for me - the dogs themselves are what enhance my life, and in turn I want to enhance theirs. And I guess that's maybe the line for me. Is the dog or the SPORT the thing that you're most into.


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## Laurelin

Oh I LOVE agility. I love the feeling of running a really stellar course and everything coming together just right. The feeling is incredible- like your dog is just an extension of you and the two of you are working in complete harmony. I love the runs where you're holding on to dear life and just barely staying in control. It's an adrenaline rush. I love sitting back and analyzing why something did or didn't work or why you need to do X with Mia but Y with Summer. 

I've seen a lot of absolutely fantastic things come out of agility training for both me and my dogs. You just have to watch Summer as I set her up for a run to know she loves the game. I'm pretty sure Mia is more about the food than the game, lol. I think I am a much better trainer than I would be (not that that is saying much) but agility has forced me to really figure out how to motivate my own personal dogs. I've learned a ton about my own dogs that I am not sure I would have known before. I know I've been introduced to training ideas I wouldn't have been or at the least would have taken a lot longer to get around to. Above all agility taught Summer to play, and that's incredible to me.

I am a perfectionist and I am competitive so that is a portion of it. I like having training goals and measurable progress vs just having to do stuff on my own. I know if I want to Q then we need to work on this, this, and this. 

I also love having dog people I can talk to and I love the camaraderie that comes from trialling and watching people overcome their struggles and get better. I love that there's always something to do at a trial and you can just jump in to help and everyone is welcoming and helpful. I like hanging out at trials all weekend long. 

I don't think that means I love the sport more than the dogs though. But dang, I do love the sport. My dogs love the sport too. I hope my future dogs love the sport as well.


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## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Oh I LOVE agility. I love the feeling of running a really stellar course and everything coming together just right. The feeling is incredible- like your dog is just an extension of you and the two of you are working in complete harmony. I love the runs where you're holding on to dear life and just barely staying in control. It's an adrenaline rush. I love sitting back and analyzing why something did or didn't work or why you need to do X with Mia but Y with Summer.
> 
> I've seen a lot of absolutely fantastic things come out of agility training for both me and my dogs. You just have to watch Summer as I set her up for a run to know she loves the game. I'm pretty sure Mia is more about the food than the game, lol. I think I am a much better trainer than I would be (not that that is saying much) but agility has forced me to really figure out how to motivate my own personal dogs. I know I've been introduced to training ideas I wouldn't have been or at the least would have taken a lot longer to get around to.
> 
> I am a perfectionist and I am competitive so that is a portion of it. I like having training goals and measurable progress vs just having to do stuff on my own. I know if I want to Q then we need to work on this, this, and this.
> 
> I also love having dog people I can talk to and I love the camaraderie that comes from trialling and watching people overcome their struggles and get better. I love that there's always something to do at a trial and you can just jump in to help and everyone is welcoming and helpful. I like hanging out at trials all weekend long.
> 
> I don't think that means I love the sport more than the dogs though. But dang, I do love the sport. My dogs love the sport too. I hope my future dogs love the sport as well.



Yeah, but I'd consider you a serious handler. That's not insulting, or not meant to be. It's just. I kinda. Trudge through agility. I sincerely do not much enjoy it. I doubt I will ever choose a dog for the purpose of competing in agility (or anything else) because I'm just not into the whole experience. I'm not social, I don't really want to talk, and to be honest I don't really consider dogs a hobby, much less dog SPORTS. Sometimes, yes, and having Kylie has kicked me into doing things I'd never do in a billion years. But I enjoy them because Kylie does, not for themselves. 

I don't care if I win. I don't care if I ever see another agility course, or take another training class. The fun for me is in the dog finding it rewarding and that's about ALL that fun and appeal for me. If I didn't love the dog, I'd merrily move on and carry on knitting and hiking. I'm a serious hiker. I'm not a serious dog sports person. Or even, honestly, a serious dog person in many ways. I need to have them. I LOVE THEM. I love spending time with them. I love working with them.

But I'm a low drive and aloof person. ;-)


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## Laurelin

To each their own. Of course I look at the obedience people and wonder WHY anyone would choose to do obedience when you could just be doing agility, lol. I find obedience awful.

I will say that agility gets much more fun (imo) when you get to the point you're throwing a lot together- running full courses and doing some more delicate handling. We did discriminations tonight and it was so much fun. Foundations can be a bit tedious.

I'm FAR from a serious handler.... yet. I'm not sure I'll ever be. Heck, I started out with a dog considered by most agility folk to be older than dirt. 

I do think that (right or wrong) agility has made me appreciate Summer a lot more. And it's not because she's ridiculously good it's just that... around the house she's so easy and Mia's so.... Mia. Summer can get lost behind Mia at times and in agility she really shines. Agility makes Summer act like a hyperactive puppy and it warms my heart to see my old dog having so much fun.


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## CptJack

For me it's largely the sort of human athleticism and social aspects that I just don't like. I'm an introvert with (diagnosed, bad) social anxiety and regular anxiety. It's all under control but the chatting, noise, and relative chaos when I've done more is just... not a good time for me. I absolutely agree that training has been hugely bonding for me with Kylie, and I think I'd enjoy freestyle a lot. You just put me, and my self-conscious anxious self in a high intensity environment where I have to perform at high speeds, with a lot of fast movements, and _I_ am close to a melt down. Kylie adores it and I'll keep doing a class or so a year to keep things mixed up, but it's not my forte. 

I DO get what you mean about the feeling but... I get that in the woods throwing a ball, or hiking, or in my living room or just plain giving her commands and working with them. By myself. Or at least without needing to be 'athletic' and running around. I know people dont' take it seriously, but for me MY dislike of it ends up ruining that feeling so I'm left at "I love you dog, but this is ALL FOR YOU."

...and I kind of suspect that the faster it goes and more that is strung together, the less I'll be inclined to do it, to be honest. Like you said, different strokes. Obedience bores both me and the dogs, and agility's just... too much. The classes are okay and fun, and if I had a training center that did things like nosework, or free style, or trick classes I'd be more confident that I'd stay in formal classes. This is just a case of me and the sport not meshing. It's okay. I don't like human sports either


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## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> The feeling is incredible- like your dog is just an extension of you and the two of you are working in complete harmony.


This is how I feel when we are having a really great skijor or scooter run, or even after a really "on" rally course. Like we're a real team completely synched up with each other and in each other's heads, not just me telling my dogs what to do. I don't know how to describe it. Granted, I get a similar feeling hiking off-leash with Pip, where he's just really in tune with me and keeping track of where I am. But future dogs will definitely be chosen with the intention of skijoring with them.

Now, if something happens... a dog doesn't have the drive or gets injured or whatever, they're still going to be my dog and I'll find something else to do with them. I like the sport and I like the dogs, and I'd prefer to like them together if possible, but without the sport I'd still like the dogs.


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## juliemule

I see both sides of this. I have my personal dogs, that will remain with me regardless. Then I have dogs I get to train and sell, and rescues I rehome. 
So if one of the dogs have nerve issues, or bad hips, or low drive I have no issue sending them on somewhere else. I can't have 15 dogs in the house lol. The dogs are happier going on to homes that do what makes them happy, so if they don't fit into the work program I find them appropriate homes early. 

3 dogs working is enough for me, then the retired two, the "house pet" and the one rescue with so many issues, so far she is staying here. I'm the type that wants the dog that would rather work than be by my side, lol I guess im high drive, competitive too


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## CptJack

juliemule said:


> I guess im high drive, competitive too


...I kinda feel good that other people are using this at people. It's just easier. 

I'm high ENERGY. I am stupid low drive. I'm also hard to motivate, soft, and a little aloof. That should be a questionnaire somewhere; Describe yourself in dog terms. Or "If you were a dog, what would you be?"


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## Kayota

You sound a lot like me lol! I'm not even a "serious" owner the way some people are here. I don't even walk my dogs daily (i do play with them daily though!). I don't think it makes me a bad owner, though.


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## Laurelin

Oh I definitely don't think everyone should like the same thing. That's what makes the world go round.  Some of my favorite moments with my dogs involve no training and just going and walking together. 

But I don't think that if you love the sport you automatically love the sport more than the dogs. Or that for most people it comes down to sport vs dogs... I think for most it is sport AND dogs.

This is how I feel completely:



> Now, if something happens... a dog doesn't have the drive or gets injured or whatever, they're still going to be my dog and I'll find something else to do with them. I like the sport and I like the dogs, and I'd prefer to like them together if possible, but without the sport I'd still like the dogs.


My future dogs will be chosen with agility in particular in mind because I enjoy it and want to stack my odds that my dog will enjoy it. I don't particularly care if we're super competitive as a team, but I want a dog that wants to participate and can participate. 

If that doesn't work out.... I'm not the kind of person that could rehome a dog over a sport. To me that is not fair and we will do something else.


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## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> I don't think that if you love the sport you automatically love the sport more than the dogs


Automatically? No. I don't think so, either. 

I don't think it even means you love the sport more than the dog, or to the exclusion of the dog, if the sole reason you HAVE the dog or dogs is to participate in a sport with them. But when I said 'comes first' I don't even mean prioritizing. I mean literally. Do you have that dog so you can do the sport, or do you do the sport because you have the dog? And yes, that was over simplifying and leaves a lot of people who basically love the sport, got the dog to do the sport, but are keeping and loving the dog regardless.

But when I think super-serious handler? I think the people form whom the dog is the means to do the sport, and the sport is the priority for them/in their life, and if the dog isn't doing the sport (or work) then they aren't keeping the dog but will find another so they can continue to do the sport, rather than continue to own the dog. I don't think that's BAD, at all. I think it's just kinda how I draw my line.


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## elrohwen

I honestly can't say I've met anybody who prioritizes the sport over the dog. If the dog doesn't work out for whatever sport, they do it at a lower level, try a different sport, or just keep the dog as a pet. I have seen that attitude a lot in horses, but that's because most people can only afford one horse, and if it's not capable of working at the same level as its rider, it will probably be sold. I would have a very hard time getting a horse and bonding with it, only to sell it a few years later.

I spent my childhood riding horses - not competitively, but taking lessons and constantly striving to improve my abilities and my communication with the horse. To me, dog sports fill that same hobby niche. My goal is to have fun, become a better trainer, and bond with my dog. I'm not a particularly competitive person, and I don't have dreams of a UD or HIT, but I would like to be able to compete at the lower levels and get a few titles, just for fun and to show what my dog can do. Mostly I like going to classes every week for something to do and to give me goals. Most people I know are similar to me. Some reach for higher goals, or train more often (or are just better trainers), but all are pretty laid back and do it because they love their dogs and love working with them. 

I do feel like the least serious person at conformation shows. Everyone else rolls in with a huge set up, crates, grooming tables, generators (to run their grooming equipment). I show up with a small sedan, maybe a crate, and a tote bag with some treats and a couple brushes. I do all of my grooming at home, don't fuss about it on the day of the show (except to run a brush through his feathering at the last minute), and spend my time hanging out with my dog and getting him to relax in the chaos. I'm sure most people don't notice because they're so busy doing their own thing, but I feel like the most casual person there.


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## juliemule

CptJack said:


> ...I kinda feel good that other people are using this at people. It's just easier.
> 
> I'm high ENERGY. I am stupid low drive. I'm also hard to motivate, soft, and a little aloof. That should be a questionnaire somewhere; Describe yourself in dog terms. Or "If you were a dog, what would you be?"


Lol I think I'd be a malinois!

Being a paramedic I have no issue taking charge, hectic scenes and crowds, giving orders, go fast, things don't bother me at all. I'm not a 'soft' person at all. I don't sit still ever. Same with dog training and handling, the majority of detection dogs are worked by men, police officers, "good ol boys club" especially in the south, and many have a hard time listening to a woman trainer lol. So I have to be motivated!

For pets, I do think you should find a dog that fits your lifestyle and work around things. I put up with a lot from a pet dog that I wouldn't from a working dog. Sports to me are a game, and not worth rehoming a dog over. No offense to any sport people, I think dog sports are great, just not that serious.


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## elrohwen

To answer CptJack's question about personalities, I think I'm low-medium energy, medium drive, and a bit soft. I like having a dog who makes me get off my butt a little, because I'm happy sitting around and reading a book or doing other low key things. I'm driven enough to be in the career I'm in and go after some goals, but I'm certainly not high drive. I tend to be soft, but I think I get harder as I age. I'm not aloof, but I'd say I'm reserved with strangers. 

Now that I look at my choice of breed, I think they match my own personality quite well on most levels, except for being higher energy than I am. Watson specifically fits less well, since he's not reserved with strangers and is a pretty hard dog.


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## Damon'sMom

I have been told many times I am a serious handler. Maybe its because I push my dogs to do their best in each sport we try. Maybe it is because of the shear amount of sports, and training I have my 5 dogs in. While many people consider me a serious handler, I don't personally consider myself one. I don't put the sport over my dog, and I never will. If my dogs didn't love something then we would stop. I would never push my dogs to train in something they didn't seem to enjoy. I have met many people that I do consider serious trainers, and they do put the sport over the dog.

As a person I am very determined, and competitive. However I am also an introvert and don't tend to talk to many other people. I have bad social anxiety, regular anxiety, and panic attacks. I never thought that I would be able to handle all the people that come with training or competing in dog sports. Somehow I have managed fine however. Jasper has training in herding, disk, tracking, dockdogs, beginning of carting, rally obedience, flyball, and treibball. And we will be starting agility after I get his elbows, and hips checked. We are actively training in herding, disk, tracking, and flyball this fall. So we attend only 4 classes a week right now. I believe that is the reason people believe I am a serious handler, because I push Jasper to do a variety of sports well.

My future dogs will be chosen with sporting in mind because I love it. If it turns out they don't then I would be fine with that.


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## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> I honestly can't say I've met anybody who prioritizes the sport over the dog. If the dog doesn't work out for whatever sport, they do it at a lower level, try a different sport, or just keep the dog as a pet. I have seen that attitude a lot in horses, but that's because most people can only afford one horse, and if it's not capable of working at the same level as its rider, it will probably be sold. I would have a very hard time getting a horse and bonding with it, only to sell it a few years later.


I haven't seen it at all in agility either. Or the brief forays into rally, treibball or nosework. Nosework is pretty much something most people around here seem to do with their retired sports dogs to keep them active. The only rehoming I've seen with sports as the reason has been.... online. I don't see it in real life at all. I'm sure it happens in agility but I don't think it's very common.

I also don't see much distinction in real life between 'serious' handlers and everyone else either. I mean.... I know one school that only trains people who want to compete but to me that is a bit different. Most I know train all sorts of levels and expertise whether all you do is class or whether you work the dogs daily at home. My trainer has mentioned before that in foundations classes they can typically tell from the first couple sessions who will stay in it for the long haul. I thought that was interesting. But i've never even heard the word 'serious' or 'oh she's a serious handler' used before. 

I don't think you can qualify as 'serious' anyways until you've been at it for years and have put some high titles on multiple dogs. I certainly don't qualify LOL. Yay 2 Qs. lol


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## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I don't think you can qualify as 'serious' anyways until you've been at it for years and have put some high titles on multiple dogs. I certainly don't qualify LOL. Yay 2 Qs. lol


Yes, I would agree with this. Just competing, even if you do it all the time, doesn't really make you "serious" in my eyes unless you're doing it at a very high level with different dogs, and especially if it's your profession (like if you run a training facility, give seminars, write books, etc). 

Though "normal" dog owners probably think I'm serious because I take a lot of classes and would actually like to compete someday. It's all relative!


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## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> If that doesn't work out.... I'm not the kind of person that could rehome a dog over a sport. To me that is not fair and we will do something else.


Right, me too. 

I have known of one person where the sport seemed more important than the dog. I never actually met the owner, but when I was doing my internship for acupuncture their SO brought the dog in to my mentor for treatment. I won't go into the details but it was glaringly obvious to all three of us that instead of acupuncture what the dog really needed was to not do agility anymore but the owner was trying to keep the dog going for whatever reason. It was sort of sad.


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## packetsmom

I think I'm pretty high drive. I'm the type that really just can't simply do nothing. Even if I'm supposedly "relaxing," I'm usually multitasking by knitting AND reading or something else. When I tried being a stay at home mom, I drove the family nuts. I'm also not "soft." I'm blunt, direct, and used to working with mostly men and giving and receiving very honest and direct criticism and direction. I am aloof with strangers, but very, very devoted to my family and close friends.

I'd probably be a pretty good GSD or Mal. 

Just to be clear, the people in my examples didn't refer to themselves as "serious handlers," nor did anyone but me call them that. I guess I was thinking to myself, "wow...if that's what it takes to get to the level they are at...I'm perfectly fine with where I am." I think part of the difference with one of them, the man contemplating selling his dog if her OFA came back bad, is that for him, this is his career as well as his hobby. He breeds and trains dogs for a living as well as competes in the sport for fun. He likely simply cannot afford to keep a dog that can't be bred or who won't reach a level in the sport worth breeding. I guess I can understand and respect that since he'll be finding her a good home, even if I wouldn't do it myself.

As I said...she's a really, really great dog!


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## elrohwen

packetsmom said:


> I think part of the difference with one of them, the man contemplating selling his dog if her OFA came back bad, is that for him, this is his career as well as his hobby. He breeds and trains dogs for a living as well as competes in the sport for fun. He likely simply cannot afford to keep a dog that can't be bred or who won't reach a level in the sport worth breeding.


Not the same thing, because the breeders I know do it as a hobby rather than a profession, but one of Watson's relatives was his breeder's big hope for a stud and he failed OFA screenings. His owner (not the same person as his breeder, but a breeder in her own right) is definitely keeping him and very happy with him as a pet and he's currently working on Rally titles. So while it's upsetting if a dog fails health screens, the breeders I know typically keep the dog. So even among breeders there are different options and different ways to do it.


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## trainingjunkie

I think I am becoming a more serious handler. However, the joy for me is in the training. I own 3 dogs and trial 3 dogs, but each one gets to perform within their comfort zones. I would never re-home a dog because it didn't perform easily. When my fearful dog shut down in the ring, I quit trialing her until I was able to make training so fun that her energy carried over into shows. I adjusted all of our goals to fit her abilities.

When my high drive dog flakes out in the ring, I laugh! It's fine! The shows are just places we go to test our training. Our training is a huge part of our relationships. I love it. They love it. It's all good. I love the amount of imagination it takes to get a dog to perform. I love the hours we spend problem-solving and learning to dance together. I like everything about it.


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## LoMD13

I like agility and trick training and hikes, so if I were getting a dog I'd keep those things in mind as to the type of dog. I wouldn't get a dog TO do agility--I'd get a dog because I wanted a dog and we just happen to like playing agility. I really don't see people putting the sport above the dog, I'm sure it happens but I've never experienced it in real life.


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## MaDeuce

I grew into Schutzhund. Basically grew up in Clubs. We've had constantly dogs coming in and out. Every single one of my dogs was sold except for one. She was one of our brood bitches. 

Only the best of the best were kept, competed with and bred. That is how our bloodline was established and why it is still popular to this day. 

That being said, since we moved to the US I have tried to get into SchH over here but I've given it up. I've given up trying to do my darndest to title a dog despite having some phenomenal dogs. I've decided to just leave all that craziness to others. I work my dogs because I've got fun doing so. I don't need a title to proof anything. I know what I've got. 

Where I am pretty darn serious about, is SAR. I love SAR from all my heart and I don't need to be a K9 Handler to do it. However my new team gave me a pretty huge hint that they want certified dogs and will do everything to support us. So training has become pretty intense for the dogs and it's absolutely amazing. We get to train with a military k9 handler, police dog handler, gun dog handlers... and from each and every one of them I learn a great deal. 

I know some people don't take me serious and I could care less. I've been called a wannabe K9 Handler, been told that I have no drive to title or certify my dogs..and it no longer bothers me because I sure as heck don't want to be like those who called me all these things. 


PS: Interestingly, my mother takes me pretty darn serious as a handler, just from seeing what I have accomplished with my dogs so far. She doesn't really care about titles but what she can see in the dogs and how I handle them. She has changed into the "Forever Home" kind of person and turned from breeder into dog owner. My father on the other hand would much rather see me title or certify and continue the bloodline. But just looking at what all is involved I am not sure I even want that kind of responsibility.


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## Willowy

I think it's veryvery sad when people love the sport more than the dog. I don't see the point of it at all, except maybe ego? Can't figure out why else they would value their hobby over an actual living animal.


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## Abbylynn

I consider myself to be a serious handler when it applies to obedience. That has always been my priority. So has protection training. I did that myself with my Dobie. Turned out wonderful! It was all about the dog .........

Showing was a serious business for me once upon a time with my Afghans. So was Lure coursing serious to me. I loved all that! I still loved my dogs though. The dogs were an extension of my personality plus they enjoyed themselves. What better way to build a bond with them?

If Leeo could have lived long enough to get into "go to ground" I would have been the silly crazy one out there jumping up and down and causing a "go get 'em!" ruckus! Lol! I would have been having more fun because my dog was enjoying himself. It wouldn't be so much about myself or the actual sport.

I also never thought I would have to be serious about training a SD dog either ... never in a million years.

And to answer CptJack's queery ... I would personally be described as a Doberman/Greyhound mix.


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## packetsmom

Willowy said:


> I think it's veryvery sad when people love the sport more than the dog. I don't see the point of it at all, except maybe ego? Can't figure out why else they would value their hobby over an actual living animal.


I guess I don't see that big of a deal with it as long as their dogs are treated well and if they are rehomed because they "wash out," it is done with care to make sure they go to a good home. It's not the relationship I want with my dog(s), but I can understand it. For some, I think it's because their goals are to better their breed through the sport and they can only afford to keep dogs that can be used toward that goal. For the one handler who is also a breeder, dog training is how he supports his family and so the sport is an extension of that for him. His dogs are his life, but he can't afford to keep a dog that can't be bred, so he does rehome dogs that either aren't suited for the sport or who have some other issue that means they should not be bred. He also sometimes finds homes for dogs that have retired from both the sport and breeding. 

I think different people get different things out of their sport. For me, it's a way to bond with my dog. I didn't get him with Schutzhund in mind, though and I didn't pay the premium for a dog bred from working lines. I got my loveable mutt and then looked for what sport would fit him best, so it makes sense that my attitude would be a lot different.

I get the other kinds of handlers/owners, but I just don't think I'm interested in being like them. I like talking to my dog and I give him affection freely. He's not just my Schutzhund dog, he's my everything dog.


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## elrohwen

packetsmom said:


> I get the other kinds of handlers/owners, but I just don't think I'm interested in being like them.


After being around horses for long enough, I guess the attitude you describe doesn't really bother me. I can't say I've seen it in personally in the dog world, but it's extremely common in the horse world to get an animal, but sell/rehome it if it doesn't work out for the required sport. It's not how I want to live with my dog, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it if the dog is well cared for and looked after. A dog being trained for Sch or field trials and living in a kennel is probably getting its needs met more than the same type of dog living with a busy family and getting little exercise or individual attention.

ETA: And selling/rehoming animals that don't work out is not necessarily the mark of a "serious" handler. Everyone in horses knows those people who are constantly getting rid of horses and getting new ones because they aren't working out, but really the problem is the rider. I'm sure it happens in dogs too.


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## PatriciafromCO

I don't see anything wrong with a breeder not keeping a dog that doesn't grow out to be what they need, or a sport dog that isn't competitive as so long as they respect the dog in re homing them in the best interest in the dog. I do not consider it not loving the dog less... I personally do not feel that way... once I take responsibility of an animal they stay with us no matter what... Never take it lightly in deciding to take on the responsibility since it is forever can't be swayed looking at puppies lol lol ...


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## KBLover

CptJack said:


> I'm high ENERGY. I am stupid low drive. I'm also hard to motivate, soft, and a little aloof. That should be a questionnaire somewhere; Describe yourself in dog terms. Or "If you were a dog, what would you be?"



I have no idea  Just don't think about it that much.

I guess I'm high drive? Pretty much easy-going most of the time. I do want things done right once learned - like if Wally's job is to bark at the kitchen timer, he'd best bark or we'll be "reviewing" it the rest of the day. I have a decent amount of energy, not restless though, but can keep going and working until the job is done. I like to try to think my way out of problems, observe and come up with solutions. I don't know what kind of dog that would make me.

As far as whether or not I'm a "serious" owner/handler - no idea. I'll let you guys decide. Another thing I don't really think about. I just think about trying to develop and grow Wally's abilities and allow him to express his instincts and communication as much as possible.


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## GrinningDog

I am not a "serious handler" in the dog sport world. Not yet. I have one sport -agility - that I've barely scratched the surface of. I could see myself getting very serious in the future and branching out to different sports. I'm competitive, perfectionistic, and almost obsessive about my hobbies. I also plain love dogs and love talking dogs with their people. Half the fun of my agility class, for me, is hanging out with fellow dog lovers. The other half of the fun stems from working/training with my dog and seeing her enthusiasm for what we're learning. I'd never put a sport over the dog, though. If we're defining seriousness that way, forget it. 

I'd be willing to bet that most people would call me a "serious dog owner," though. I do a tremendous amount of work with Gypsy outside of sports and have for years. We do obedience, trick training, off leash work amid distractions, you name it. We just haven't taken classes or aimed for a goal (trialing, titling) until recently. 

More than one person has compared Gypsy and I. We're both high energy, intelligent, intense, a little neurotic, sociable but not affectionate. I just have a better off-switch.  Maybe I'm a lurcher?


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## Laurelin

I am weird... I am very chill and laid back about most things, obsessive and perfectionistic about the things I care about, easy going, go with the flow, pretty low key, somewhat weird and quirky...

I do best with spazzdogs though.


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## packetsmom

elrohwen said:


> After being around horses for long enough, I guess the attitude you describe doesn't really bother me. I can't say I've seen it in personally in the dog world, but it's extremely common in the horse world to get an animal, but sell/rehome it if it doesn't work out for the required sport. It's not how I want to live with my dog, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it if the dog is well cared for and looked after. A dog being trained for Sch or field trials and living in a kennel is probably getting its needs met more than the same type of dog living with a busy family and getting little exercise or individual attention.
> 
> ETA: And selling/rehoming animals that don't work out is not necessarily the mark of a "serious" handler. Everyone in horses knows those people who are constantly getting rid of horses and getting new ones because they aren't working out, but really the problem is the rider. I'm sure it happens in dogs too.


In all the examples I gave, I guess the biggest difference I saw (which I was jokingly calling a "serious" handler) was the attitude that what benefits the sport comes before anything else in the relationship with the dog.

Maybe withholding affection except for when he works for me would make Sam better at Schutzhund, but I actually get my own selfish pleasure from petting him, kissing him, and generally making a fuss over him. I do these things whether we're working or not because I simply enjoy having a dog, working or not. (Ok, I don't kiss my dog in front of my Schutzhund friends.) On the field, I'm more serious, but even then, if he is having an off day, I try to work around it.

Most of the people who seem to have this attitude, (even outside of rehoming a dog), seem to be the higher performing handlers in our club. I basically looked at this and made the decision in my own mind that if it really would take putting the sport first in my relationship with Sam, above all else, to reach that level...that I'm ok not ever reaching that level. I'd rather have a dog that is well-rounded pet who happens to do Schutzhund than a champion Schutzhund dog that I can't love on whenever I feel like it or do other similar things because it might effect his performance on the field.

I want to push him to reach his potential, but not to the point where I'm sacrificing other parts of our relationship to do it.


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## elrohwen

Now I would say that trainers who are sacrificing any part of their relationship with their dogs aren't the best trainers they can be. Denise Fenzi does Sch and is really big on relationship. A dog doesn't have to sleep in your bed or even in your house, but the best trainers will still talk to the dog and have a relationship with it. I don't see those people you mentioned as serious handlers so much as misguided ones. Like the people in agility who don't let their dog see a squirrel or a another dog because that's "self-rewarding".

Eta: I'm trying to say that you don't "have" to treat a dog like that to compete at very high levels. I'm sure it works for some people, but it's certainly not the only way or arguably the best way. If people in any sport think it's the only way to get a top level performance, they are misguided.


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## packetsmom

elrohwen said:


> Now I would say that trainers who are sacrificing any part of their relationship with their dogs aren't the best trainers they can be. Denise Fenzi does Sch and is really big on relationship. A dog doesn't have to sleep in your bed or even in your house, but the best trainers will still talk to the dog and have a relationship with it. I don't see those people you mentioned as serious handlers so much as misguided ones. Like the people in agility who don't let their dog see a squirrel or a another dog because that's "self-rewarding".
> 
> Eta: I'm trying to say that you don't "have" to treat a dog like that to compete at very high levels. I'm sure it works for some people, but it's certainly not the only way or arguably the best way. If people in any sport think it's the only way to get a top level performance, they are misguided.


That is good to know.  I will say that the same guy who is planning to rehome his girl if her hips don't score well, DOES talk to his dogs and is very affectionate with them. A couple of practices ago, he picked her up and had her on his shoulders as he walked off the field. I'm betting it will break his heart at least a little if he has to rehome her. The woman who "doesn't talk to her dogs unless they work," is the only person I've heard that from. That being said, both of them have trained ScH3 dogs, so I'd consider them pretty experienced and good handlers.

I do think it's good to know where your lines in the sand are because it can be easy to get caught up in pushing your dog and trying to reach goals. I just know I don't ever want to let a sport get in the way of the reasons I love having a dog in the first place.


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## elrohwen

packetsmom said:


> A couple of practices ago, he picked her up and had her on his shoulders as he walked off the field.


Haha. I can't even imagine getting a GSD up on my shoulders. That's really cute though. He sounds like a good owner/handler. It's often necessary for breeders to rehome dogs who can't be bred (you can't keep them all), and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.


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## BubbaMoose

Wow, would ya look at that Sass. How cool, you and Thodmas seem to have A LOT in common.


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## sassafras

How very odd.


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## BubbaMoose

Maybe you guys can share skijoring tips. 


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## sassafras

Well apparently we are both sucky bottom 5-ers so I'm not sure we'd do each other much good!


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## Rumble

Me, personally, I'm in it for the dogs. I've handled dogs for other people for a few years, I recently got my own show dog to train. I know conformation showing is completely different from agility and many other dog sports. But if you aren't having FUN, you need to quit. Because then it becomes only a job, and if you dread it or don't enjoy it, you're not going to get anywhere with it. Showing is what I do, it's MY personal specialty/reference. And if there is a dog who doesn't fit standards, or does but isn't a quality show dog, or if it's obvious that it doesn't want to show, I find it a new home. Not because I'm cold and 'have no use for it'. No, I don't have a use for it, but that's just it. Instead of making it do what it doesn't want to, or letting it sit in a kennel forever, I'd rather find a home for it where it would excel in another sport, or just being a wonderful pet for someone. 
I talk to my dogs like they're people, I spend time with them outside of training. They don't get 'rewarded' for anything unless it's a good training session, but I still walk them or play with them. If you don't have that bond with your dog, trust or friendly relationship, you'll never become a team that will move on to national shows. 
Conformation showing is a GREAT deal of the dogs overall apearance and standards, but they also look at the general attitude of the dog. And I believe that dogs reflect their owners, if you raise it up being mean to it, it'll grow up mean. If you raise it up being nice to it, it'll be nice. Granted that doesn't work for EVERY dog, but that's how it is with the majority. And you can't expect to go somewhere and win with a dog that doesn't have a bond with you or trust you or look at you like a 'friend'. 
And in my opinion, the only way to understand the dogs limitations and strengths is by spending time with it OUTSIDE of training. They're dogs, not tools for you to use for your own advantage. People often loose sight of the dogs and only focus on their reputation/wants and that's when you start failing.


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## Jacksons Mom

I think I'm somewhere in between personally. I totally get what you're saying though, I know they're not "bad owners" or bad people, but I simply can't fathom selling/rehoming a dog because it didn't work out right for the sport. And even breeders, I totally understand if they have a dog that is not breeding material, and finding it a new home, etc, but it's not something I could ever do. I look at my dog like he's a part of me, he is family, almost like a child-ish, so the nonchalant attitude that some display when it comes to placing and rehoming dogs is somewhat foreign to me.

I went to a Barn Hunt trial recently and I didn't feel "out of place" per say but as I was walking in, I see everyone with their cars and vans loaded up with crates in the back stacked on top of each other, and ribbons galore hanging all over their cages, and everyone had multiple dogs, and knew what they were talking about. And here I roll up with my dad in his truck, with my one dog on my lap, no ribbons, and not really knowing what I was doing, LOL... but I think if I had the money, or a friend to do it with, I'd be more inclined to get into more trials and competitions and such. I do like being around dog people and it's cool to talk about things that I usually only talk about online, in person. 

It's funny too because to majority of my friends, I probably seem like the biggest dog geek on the planet. When I posted a pic on FB of his Barn Hunt ribbon, one friend was all "How do you even FIND these things?!?" And they probably have seen some agility stuff, among other things, that make me look like the biggest dog nerd ever, but in comparison to most, I often feel like I don't really do much at all and am totally out of place, haha.

I love agility, I feel Jackson and I are good at it, and it's why we're on our 4th class now. He really thrives and loves it. Whenever I have the extra cash, I love to spend it on a class and feel it's worth it. But it's not really something that gets prioritized over other things and I could definitely live without agility and be a-okay. I really love to be involved in dog-related activities whenever I can, and I love to try out sports and such, but I definitely don't consider myself too serious. I'm not in agility classes with the intention or desire to compete. If it happens, great. But I'm not worried if all we ever do is classes, ya know.


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## Jacksons Mom

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most people would call me a "serious dog owner," though. I do a tremendous amount of work with Gypsy outside of sports and have for years. We do obedience, trick training, off leash work amid distractions, you name it. We just haven't taken classes or aimed for a goal (trialing, titling) until recently.


Yes this is essentially me too. I've been really "into" my dog since I got him, but it's all been for our own personal pleasure, I did not get into any kind of trialing, titling, stuff until recently.


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## elrohwen

Jacksons Mom said:


> I think I'm somewhere in between personally. I totally get what you're saying though, I know they're not "bad owners" or bad people, but I simply can't fathom selling/rehoming a dog because it didn't work out right for the sport. And even breeders, I totally understand if they have a dog that is not breeding material, and finding it a new home, etc, but it's not something I could ever do. I look at my dog like he's a part of me, he is family, almost like a child-ish, so the nonchalant attitude that some display when it comes to placing and rehoming dogs is somewhat foreign to me.


IME, the difference is a breeder looking at what is good for the whole breed, vs someone being mostly concerned with individual pets. If someone is really set on improving the breed, they will need to breed a reasonable number of dogs, and they won't be able to keep them all. I totally get that and I think we need breeders like that.

But like you, I'm focused on my individual pets first and foremost. While I wouldn't be opposed to breeding Watson, or maybe breeding my own female some day, the love I have for them is priority over my love for the breed. I couldn't rehome either if a dog didn't work out.



> I went to a Barn Hunt trial recently and I didn't feel "out of place" per say but as I was walking in, I see everyone with their cars and vans loaded up with crates in the back stacked on top of each other, and ribbons galore hanging all over their cages, and everyone had multiple dogs, and knew what they were talking about. And here I roll up with my dad in his truck, with my one dog on my lap, no ribbons, and not really knowing what I was doing,


Story of my show career so far. lol I roll up with one dog in my Honda Civic. I don't even bring the grooming table or any grooming equipment beyond a brush or two. I always feel a bit out of place.


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## SDRRanger

I decided to get involved in dog sports because I missed the life of raising, training, showing, and selling horses which I had done for years. I can understand rehoming certain animals if they're not fitting the bill for what you're after, but I've always had a personal animal that was not for sale like the others. That one had its sports changed as needed for that particular animal so that we could have fun.


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