# Do you provide food and water during the night



## rickshapiro (Nov 12, 2008)

I have two puppies of about 9 weeks old. We are crate training them. At night we put them in the crate in our bedroom. We have an area with a pee pad within our room. We listen for them to start to stir and wine during the night and remove them from the cage and then place them on the pad and wait for them to eliminate. 

My question is during the day they reside within a pen which has their crate within it. The door to the crate is open. Within the pen is water and food for the day. Also there is a pee pad. We are not home during the day so letting them outside is not an option yet.

During the night when they are locked in the crate do we need to feed them through the night and provide them with water? Can or should they go through the night without food and water? 

Thanks in advance for any response.

Rick


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## HersheyPup (May 22, 2008)

I would take away the food and water at night. They are less likely to have to eliminate during the night if they do not drink or eat. They will be fine and it will be easier on you.


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## rickshapiro (Nov 12, 2008)

HersheyPup said:


> I would take away the food and water at night. They are less likely to have to eliminate during the night if they do not drink or eat. They will be fine and it will be easier on you.


I was hoping that would be the consensus. We were just get concerned about the possibility of these small does having issues with hypoglycemia.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

I wouldn't free feed so no there would be no food left out at night. Your pups should have food offered 3 or 4 times a day at their age. By the time they are 1 yo, twice a day would be more than enough.

I would have water available 24/7.

You didn't ask this but I don't like potty training on a pad. I don't want my dogs pottying in the house and If I start them off on the pad, I am teaching them that there is a place inside that it's ok to potty. It's difficult to teach them later on that its not ok to potty in the house but thats another thread.


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## rickshapiro (Nov 12, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I don't want my dogs pottying in the house and If I start them off on the pad, I am teaching them that there is a place inside that it's ok to potty. It's difficult to teach them later on that its not ok to potty in the house but thats another thread.


I understand. We do not expect them to be able to hold their bladder and bowels long enough at this age while we are not home, so we are providing the pad. We are hiring a walker that will come once a day to take them out.

At night we do intend to start taking them outside. The reason we have not started yet is we've only had them a few days and do not have a good feel for what the signs are for "I need to pee" verses "I just want out of the crate". Last night was our first night crating them at night and they did well. They whined twice and actually went on the pad. Only once did they whine without really needing to eliminate. We will probably start running them outside within the next few days. We do not want to be running up and down stairs and outside if we do not need to.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I don't free-feed, so there is no food after set meals during the day. For puppies, I take up the water at 9pm. The older they get, the later the water stays down until it's down 24/7.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

I don't allow them food or water overnight because it increases them having to potty. I feed them a meal before bed and take them out, also they have water but once they are put in the crate for bedtime they don't get anymore. I also don't let them out overnight, they go out before bedtime and in the morning first thing. I don't feel they need food/water/potty breaks throughout the night.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Food should be fed on a schedule so poop can be retrieved on a schedule. Water is a necessity and I would not withhold any dog of this necessity. As for potty breaks at night, I don't see the logic in withholding those either. Learning comes by repetition, and with repetition comes opportunity to reinforce the behaviors we want. My sleep is not worth a strong potty behavior, so that takes precedence over a temporarily altered sleeping schedule.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

rickshapiro said:


> During the night when they are locked in the crate do we need to feed them through the night and provide them with water? Can or should they go through the night without food and water?



To answer your question, if I have 9 week old pups, then yes, I do provide them with a bowl of water during the night. I'm always worried about a baby pup staying hydrated. As for food, they should be eating approximately 3 small meals during the day and don't require any extra feeding during the night. 
One thing I do want to add though is that I think your daytime pen is actually a MUCH better setup than just crating a pup that young straight through the night. Waking up and letting them out to potty is going to get tiring for both you and them, because it's going to be a while before they can hold it through the night. Crating a pup that age, that physically cannot be expected to hold it for so long is only going to teach them to potty in their crate if the need to go is urgent. What I do is use an ex pen with an open crate inside, newspapers on one side, water on the other until about 12 weeks. After that time, I take away the water. And pups do not come out of the pen at night until I begin to find less and less accidents in the morning. At that time, I will keep them in an open crate just outside the bedroom where I have tile floors that can be cleaned ... I'll leave the pads down just for accidents but they never get praised for using them, only going outside. Once they're closer to 4 months the pads are completely eliminated and without food or water near bedtime they should be able to go without accidents for most of the night. Anyway, that's just how I do it, and it's worked well so far for me ...

ETA: Just noticed you mentioned this was a small breed and you were worried about hypoglycemia. I would be too! While it's not advisable to feed the last meal around bedtime, you might want to consider giving them a strip of Nutri Cal or similar vitamin paste to keep their blood sugar level normal.


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## rickshapiro (Nov 12, 2008)

UrbanBeagles said:


> To answer your question, if I have 9 week old pups, then yes, I do provide them with a bowl of water during the night. I'm always worried about a baby pup staying hydrated. As for food, they should be eating approximately 3 small meals during the day and don't require any extra feeding during the night.
> One thing I do want to add though is that I think your daytime pen is actually a MUCH better setup than just crating a pup that young straight through the night. Waking up and letting them out to potty is going to get tiring for both you and them, because it's going to be a while before they can hold it through the night. Crating a pup that age, that physically cannot be expected to hold it for so long is only going to teach them to potty in their crate if the need to go is urgent. What I do is use an ex pen with an open crate inside, newspapers on one side, water on the other until about 12 weeks. After that time, I take away the water. And pups do not come out of the pen at night until I begin to find less and less accidents in the morning. At that time, I will keep them in an open crate just outside the bedroom where I have tile floors that can be cleaned ... I'll leave the pads down just for accidents but they never get praised for using them, only going outside. Once they're closer to 4 months the pads are completely eliminated and without food or water near bedtime they should be able to go without accidents for most of the night. Anyway, that's just how I do it, and it's worked well so far for me ...
> 
> ETA: Just noticed you mentioned this was a small breed and you were worried about hypoglycemia. I would be too! While it's not advisable to feed the last meal around bedtime, you might want to consider giving them a strip of Nutri Cal or similar vitamin paste to keep their blood sugar level normal.


If you provide them with a pad what incentive do they have to go outside?


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

With Hallie we were on a constant potty schedule from about..12 weeks. At 12 weeks she could hold it halfway through the night and then at 3.00am someone would get up and take her out then she was fine. She got fed and lots of water 2 hours before bed. Then right before bed I'd take her out! She also got small meals throughout the day. We still stick to that, but now she gets fed once a day and doesn't go out halfway through the night. When we first got her we tried the little pads...she just ripped them up she also had a GI tract infection so she went alot and it was messy so the pads didn't work past 8 weeks.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

Small treat for the pad, big treat for outside. Then once they start going on the pad, no treat for the pad and huge treat for going outside.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

rickshapiro said:


> If you provide them with a pad what incentive do they have to go outside?



My pups are never encouraged to go on their pads, they are there to protect the floors from inevitable accidents. They are simply not praised for the use of pads/papers, and also keep in mind the pen is only for corraling them at night. During the day they are corrected for pottying in the house & praised only for going outside ... I praise for outside pottying from the time they are 5 weeks old, so they get the point drilled in pretty well  
During the day, it's rare that the pups have an accident if I am taking them out often enough. They know inside is not the place for pottying, but if I was to take the pads up at night, I would only have to clean up pee in the AM, because at that age it's asking too much of them to hold it for the duration of the night.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Curbside Prophet said:


> As for potty breaks at night, I don't see the logic in withholding those either. Learning comes by repetition, and with repetition comes opportunity to reinforce the behaviors we want. My sleep is not worth a strong potty behavior, so that takes precedence over a temporarily altered sleeping schedule.


The logic for me is that I don't feel it is necessary to wake them up to go out at night. It is natural for them to wait for me to take them outside including during the day, still I always reinforce it. I take them out and tell them go potty, then give them praise so they learn. Just because I don't take them outside overnight doesn't mean they are not getting trained. I've only let very few dogs out middle of the night. 

One pup I had sleeping in my bed never in a crate, I didn't wake her to go out, she never pottied either on my bed nor on my floor. If it was needed I would do it as cleaning up pee is not my favorite thing in the world so if needed would be well worth it. At 9wks they can hold it at night and hardly ever have accidents in the house during the day by then, some are going right to the door to let me know. If I can bottle feed and stimulate to go potty small pups all hours of the night taking them out of the crate for a potty break would be a piece of cake. 



UrbanBeagles said:


> Crating a pup that age, that physically cannot be expected to hold it for so long is only going to teach them to potty in their crate if the need to go is urgent.


So is it different for smaller breed pups. That they can't hold it at this young of age as I just replied to CP who also has a smaller dog too. I know the OP has a small breed, so smaller bladder? Needs out more frequently? 

I hope I don't sound like a mean owner or something. 

[quoteETA: Just noticed you mentioned this was a small breed and you were worried about hypoglycemia. I would be too! While it's not advisable to feed the last meal around bedtime, you might want to consider giving them a strip of Nutri Cal or similar vitamin paste to keep their blood sugar level normal.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more, this is a very good idea.


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## midnight mojo (Oct 7, 2008)

I have a small pup as well (just shy of 3 lbs) and had similar concerns. We do not take up his water at night but don't provide water when he's in the crate--so he can drink 30 seconds before bed and we're ok with that. We do let him out once during the night (he's 3.5 months old) but when we first got him he needed 2 potty breaks at night (about every 3 hours). He gets 4 meals a day (we'll drop to 3 when he's 6 months) and we've never had problems with hypoglycemia. Also, at the recommendation of the breeder he had two water bowls till he was 10 or 11 weeks old--one with water and one with water and a little bit of dark Karo syrup. She suggested this because she free fed him while we wanted to use a schedule.

*edit* So I was thinking about this last night as we went to bed and I realized that I didn't mention providing a stuffed Kong for Mojo when he's crated! So while he doesn't get a meal during the night, he actually does have access to food from his Kong.


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## MoonStr80 (Oct 9, 2006)

My dogs are put to bed in their crates at about 8:30-9pm they get a drink then I take them out then off they're in their crates. Their water dish is left out all day within fresh water are using refilled when it gets dirty etc


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