# Caucasian Ovcharka in Suburbia - The Unfolding Story



## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

A couple years ago I began doing some research on various dog breeds. I spent hours of time researching and reading on the internet to find a breed that I really thought would fit my personality as well as be a companion that I could work with for many years to come. 

During the course of my research I discovered the Caucasian Ovcharka. A magnificent breed with amazing intelligence, independence, and natural defender. I became absorbed in the research of this breed and probably have read every ounce of information there was on the internet as well as the couple books that were written on this breed. I have talked extensively with breeds and owners before finally making my decision to import a Caucasian from Europe.

The catch? I'm located in the suburbs! It was very difficult to find people to talk to that owned a Caucasian in a more populated area near a city. There is a lot of false spread rumors about this breed to make them look like vicious savage dogs (which they are FAR from!) 

I am taking it upon myself to raise a well socialized pup in suburbia. There is so much false information on the web and I want to document my experiences and share them with you as they unfold. I am sure there are challenges that lie ahead but I feel fully capable and ready to take on the responsibility. 

For anyone who is potentially interested in this breed, please take the time to bookmark this thread. Over time I will be updating it with pictures as well as any insightful life events in the city regarding aggressive tendencies, training, socialization etc.

This is truly a remarkable breed and it's time to give them the respect they deserve - wonderful companions, loyal protectors, and big teddy bears!

Enjoy!

9 weeks old



















*Update 1: 12 Weeks old.*
We started obedience training a few days ago and she does very well. I'm not going to make assumptions about the breed as a whole, but she is decently food motivated and thoroughly enjoys training. She definitely has an independent air about her and will sometimes decide to do things her way. She has been very friendly to everyone I've introduced her to so far. She has yet to finish her vaccinations so socializing is kept mainly to the house. So far I see no aggressive tendencies. When we are in the yard and she hears a noise nearby she'll stop playing and listen intently and won't resume play for awhile. She has done insanely well with crate and potty training. She has had maybe 2 accidents in the house total and been clear for weeks. 

12 weeks:









*UPDATE*
*7 months:*
She is sitting around 80lbs now and will continue to grow. She has not hit first heat yet and so I have not seen any major temperament changes. So far she is very dominant and independent especially around other dogs. She completely bosses my GSD around who is a few years older than her but they get along great. She is still extremely sweet in temperament with people but I have noticed her starting to growl at random objects (such as a truck or motorcycle) that she decides she does not like.
Training has been fun. She is food motivated and enjoys mental stimulation. Although she is very independent she is wanting to please most of the time. I will do a next major update after her heat cycle to see if there are any major hormonal changes. For anyone interested in the breed feel free to post here or send me a private pm if you have specific questions. 


















*UPDATE



And from Moscow - Nazar (6 weeks old in picture) 30lbs










Temperament update
Masha recently has begun to develop a much more protective temperament. She has a deep growl and so far shows no sign of any fearful or nervousness barking which is what I am most weary of. She has begun to see many things as potential threats. As often with this breed, things she used to accept as "normal" she now thinks differently of. For example, she has seen people mowing the lawn 100x before but as of this past week, decided that people with lawnmowers are potential threats and so she responds by barking at them to let them know not to come onto her territory. It is my job as the owner to reintroduce her to things and continue to socialize so that she fully understands what is and isn't acceptable. This is the teenage years and it will be a tough task ahead. 

From my experience so far, this is a breed that needs owners who are extremely attentive to body language and proper training methods. I tend to rely heavily on positive reinforcement and reward methods for training. However, it is my opinion and the opinion of other CO owners that it is necessary to incorporate forms of negative reinforcement such as body blocking. The breed as a whole is extremely stubborn. They do very well with obedience but only if they're in the mood for it. If they see something as a threat it is much harder to grab their attention. This is why socialization is extremely important and must be done extensively or the dog becomes a potential liability. 

Two new pups have joined the family. I will not be taking care of 4 dogs but my significant other has purchased her own. I am still awaiting the arrival of the second pup but "Baron" as seen in the pictures above is highly dominant. He is currently 12 weeks old and has already challenged my Ovcharka and German Shepherd for their treats/food to the point of actual aggression and biting. I have begun a lot of hand feeding with treats/food swap to get him better with resource guarding however when it comes to my other dogs he will tell them off and if they don't back away he goes in for a bite. More than likely they will all be separated during feeding time as I do not want to become victim of a redirect bite if a fight arises. I am teaching him to share food and toys but it is proving difficult. Despite much experience in training, I have sought an extremely good trainer who is certified in working with aggression and has been extremely helpful in incorporating some techniques. Still, it is a challenge.

So far my conclusion is this. It IS possible to own these dogs in a more suburban area. However, appropriate fencing height is needed. In addition, experience with aggression, NILIF methods, and a very attentive personality is needed. The good news is that so far none of my dogs has been aggressive in any way towards any human being. By socializing the dogs they might bark to warn somebody but once introduced do extremely well and are very friendly. 

If any questions feel free to pm me or drop a line on this thread and I'll respond! Thanks for reading my story

Update:

Nazar has quite a temperament. At just 13 weeks old he is showing some serious guarding potential. He is already guarding the yard and growling and barking if he hears anything near our fence. On walks he is starting to growl at random people he doesn't like and has decided that he completely dislikes our next door neighbors house. He will incessantly growl and bark at it.

I am socializing Nazar around 300+ people a week in various environments. He has had no negative experiences and generally does quite well. Some people are really put off by him growling at first but as soon as he's able to meet someone he warms up right away. 

Masha's temperament continues to grow. She is particularly protective at night time but for the most part her temperament is a LOT more docile then Nazar's.

I'm adding a couple photos. 

Masha:

Blushing (she is a little camera shy)










Nazar - 13 weeks


*


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Gorgeous. What's your pup's name?

We used to have a poster here, Brad Anderson (brada1878), who owned a couple of COs and shared stories and photos, but he hasn't been active here in some time. (Here's a Flickr set of his male.) It'll be nice to watch your CO grow up.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Crantastic,

Yes I know Brad. His CO's are beautiful and he is very knowledgeable about the breed.

No name yet...I've had her for a week and can't decide on one haha. Right now we call her "little bear"


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I figured you'd know him! I don't think that the CO community is very large.

Little bear suits her! She's just a fluffball right now. Is she showing protective instincts already? How are you planning to start her socialization and training?

I think I'll enjoy this thread. I am always happy to see someone do a ton of research before getting any breed, but especially a more challenging one -- you'll be well-prepared for any problems that crop up. I'm sure she'll end up a great dog.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks!

No protective instincts yet, they will begin to show around 6 months of age. Right now she is extremely well tempered and very sweet. She has a very independent personality already and will happily go explore areas of the house the second I look away. 

I've only run into one issue. She gets along great with my GSD but the other day they were both chewing on a bully stick and my CO decided she wanted my GSD's bully stick. The GSD growled to claim her treat but my pup decided to go rambo mode and charge in anyway to steal the treat! Thank god my GSD is very well socialized around dogs but I definitely had to remove the pup from that situation. She could have cared less that the GSD was 5x bigger then her.

I am beginning extensive socialization as soon as I titer test and finish second vaccinations. Right now I just have a trickle of people coming into the house giving her freeze-dried liver treats. I want her to associate house strangers with the most delicious of treats.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Oh, Im so excited. I first saw this breed when I was 12, and their were a lot of nasty things said about them, but I loved them. Im looking forward to watching her grow and here how she does. 

Picking a name is hard, it will come to you when its the right one!


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm a big admirer of the breed and I can't wait to see your Little Bear grow up.

In the future, keep the two dogs separated when the have food, bully sticks, bones, etc. We use crates and baby gates in my house. It's better to prevent fights than break them up.


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

Oh my GOSH she is gorgeous! I've always thought the breed was beautiful, but I know that I wouldn't be a good candidate for one, so I'll live vicariously through you. I wish you a lot of luck on your life-long journey together c:


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

congratulations.. the last picture really saids who she is deep inside.. No doubt you will enjoy her..


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Congratulations on your new puppy! She is really beautiful and it will be fun watching her grow

Livestock guardian breeds are in general very protective of their food/bones.
When owners work on that from puppy-hood, they do become a lot less protective of their food later on.
That's how now our two Caucasian shepherds and our cat can all eat in peace next to one another.

When we first got our female Caucasian Ovcharka (when translated, the Russian word ovcharka means shepherd dog, for anyone who is interested), she would behave exactly that way towards our male Caucasian shepherd.
They would both chew on their bully sticks, and then she would decide she wants to have his bully stick too.
That is when she would turn into a little Tasmanian devil and charge and growl at him so viciously until he would get up and let her have his bully stick as well.
Being that he is a well socialized, stable dog, he would never try to hurt her over food.
That was not always the case, back when he was just 11 weeks old he went against a full grown Dogue de Bordeaux over food.
And that French Mastiff would have probably killed him had we not pulled them apart with a lightning speed. Thank god he didn't get hurt.
Anyway, we would correct our female Caucasian shepherd pup and we would give our male his bully stick back. But she would just do the very same thing the next time they had chewables.

Our breeder advised us to just let them work it out, by keeping an eye on them during their chew-time, but without interfering. 
Which we did and after a month or two, our male decided he has had enough of having the pup trying to steal his bully sticks all the time, and finally put the puppy in her place.
He made such an impressive growl and she immediately backed off and never tried to steal bones/bully sticks from him again lol

A lot of dogs give puppies the so called puppy-pass, which basically means they put up with a lot of puppy's bad behavior until the puppy turns somewhere between 4 and 6 months.
That's when they usually will start correcting the puppy more and set some rules.
Now granted we have a male-female combination, which makes everything a whole lot easier.

Pecking order is very important for this breed, that is something I find very important to mention.
Being that you are now having 2 females, I have to agree with Tofu_pup's suggestion..it's best to keep them separated when they have food, bully sticks, bones, etc..


Btw how difficult was it to get your new puppy? Did you had to hire a broker?
And how long did the puppy had to stay at the airport?


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

cheebamaster said:


> No name yet...I've had her for a week and can't decide on one haha. Right now we call her "little bear"


I love "Little Bear"! Maybe something that means bear? Quick search brought up "Ursa" and "Mato" and several others.


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

Oh gosh, she is darling.

The Russian Bear is a popular symbol in Russian culture. During the 1980 Moscow Olympic Games, Russia adopted a cuddly bear mascot named "Misha". 

That could be a cute name, fitting with the history of the breed and the "little bear" nickname!


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

She's adorable! You sound well prepared to provide a great environment for her to grow into a fabulous dog.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

What a cute pup! It will be awesome watching her grow. 

Where'd you get her from by the way? (which country?)


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

What a cute pup! It will be awesome watching her grow. 

Where'd you get her from by the way? (which country?)


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## melundie (Aug 2, 2011)

She's beautiful! A couple name ideas going along with your bear theme...

Ursula means "little bear" in Latin.
Nita Means "bear" in Choctaw.
Kroha (KRO-ha) means little one in Russian.

Good luck! Can't wait to watch her grow.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks for the kind words everyone,

I imported her from Norway. Had to drive to Atlanta GA airport to pick her up and it was a bit of a nightmare. The pup arrived in at 1am in the morning and customs wouldn't allow me to pick her up till the morning when they "opened" Poor pup was on 2 different airplanes for over 24hrs before I was able to get her. Thank god I didn't need a broker. They asked me a couple questions and then signed off on her. She had to sit in her own filth for who know how long but I wiped her down and then drove back after being up for 48hrs straight...and then instantly to crate training and screaming the first night haha! It was a rough ride but everything has settled now and my wonderful girlfriend let me get some much needed sleep.

She learned how to get out of her crate this morning. She jumps at the latch if I don't put it down all the way and slides it. Too smart for her on good! haha

Thanks for the name suggestions they are very helpful. I particularly like "Misha" beretw. So congrats you may have just named her.


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## Dog Dad (Nov 27, 2012)

Will be checking out this thread often. I researched the breed as well a number of years back. Decided to wait until I am better off financially and have a more rural setting. Have been enjoying our adopted dogs but still plan on a CO one day.


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

cheebamaster said:


> Thanks for the name suggestions they are very helpful. I particularly like "Misha" beretw. So congrats you may have just named her.


Oh boy oh boy oh boy! 

I'm keeping my eye on this thread. I've always been so curious about COs. I said it before but, she is a drop dead gorgeous dollface.

Do you have photos of the sire and dam?


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Sire and Dam for Masha (10 month old CO)

Sire:









Dam:


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Those are some awe inspiring dogs.


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

What an amazing little bear!! She is beautiful and her parents are magnificent! There is another poster on here who has a CO in suburbia. I remember seeing his threads. So, you are not alone. 

I love Misha, by the way! Perfect for her!


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Wow! Beautiful parents and such an adorable pup! I once researched this breed thinking I wanted one because they are so beautiful. I decided I could not handle the care that goes into these dogs, but I sure do still admire their beauty. Thanks for sharing this!

I will also agree that Misha sounds like a good name.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Beautiful girl you have there! Hope you stick around and tell us about her. I miss Brad A and his stories/photos!


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

Wow, those are impressive dogs.

Sooo... Any cool stories yet?! What's her personality like?!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

*Just did a small update on original post.* No crazy stories to report yet. Just been working on crate training and some good training. She is adapting very well


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Love her new pic, she is soooo pretty!!
I noticed this breed gets potty trained very quickly.
Our male came potty trained lol. He was close to 11 weeks at the time and he never had any accidents and our female was completely housebroken by the time she was a little over 3 months.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

cheebamaster said:


> I'm located in the suburbs! It was very difficult to find people to talk to that owned a Caucasian in a more populated area near a city. There is a lot of false spread rumors about this breed to make them look like vicious savage dogs (which they are FAR from!)
> 
> I am taking it upon myself to raise a well socialized pup in suburbia. There is so much false information on the web and I want to document my experiences and share them with you as they unfold. I am sure there are challenges that lie ahead but I feel fully capable and ready to take on the responsibility.


Firstly, I should say, belatedly, that you have a _gorgeous_ puppy. And secondly, like my breed (another Soviet treasure) I do agree that there is a lot of misinformation on line about these dogs. However ...



akodo said:


> I too researched this breed, and here were my conclusions: ...


I also happen to agree completely with akodo. As with all working breeds, breeders will eventually screw up the C.O. and totally water down their working instincts. Right now, however, a well-bred Ovcharka is certainly not an ideal choice for a pet, and would be quite an ongoing challenge in the city or suburbia...

Even with the best of training and most extensive of socialization, the most innocent encounters can potentially have tragic consequences. Here is but one, simple encounter with our boy (a Black Russian Terrier which, like the C.O., also has extremely high defence drive):

It's winter. The walkway is very icy. A man slowly and carefully approaches, slipping and sliding. Just as he gets to us, his right foot slips from under him. He lunges forward and manages to catch himself with his left foot, avoiding falling flat on his face...

_Before his left foot could land_, our boy who, _up until this point was very calmly, and totally without concern, sitting at my left side_, in a flash, had taken up a defensive stance in front of me. As the man looked up from the ground, he was literally nose to nose with 125 pounds of snarling BRT. Poor guy must have wet his pants!

This is but one of countless unforeseen "incidents" which can, and do, happen in suburbia. Like the C.O., the BRT was bred to think for itself, and the results above had nothing to do with training, but everything to do with hard-wired instinct and socialization. My dog held his ground, but gave the man the benefit of the doubt and allowed him to back off the situation (whereupon the dog totally relaxed as if nothing had happened). But I often shudder at the thought of what would have happened if our boy had slightly different genetics, was just a wee bit sharper, or had not been so thoroughly socialized.

Having said all that, although the BRT, with its hard-wired defence drive, is certainly not an ideal choice for most pet owners, I see a well-bred C.O. as being several notches in seriousness above and beyond. 

As an interesting aside, the C.O. was introduced into BRT genetics via the, now extinct, _Moscow Diver_. The M.D. was a Soviet-made cross between the Newfoundland and the Caucasian Ovcharka. The idea was to produce a tougher, more all-purpose water rescue dog. The experiment reached its inevitable dead end when it was found that, for example, when sent out to save drowning sailors, the dogs were more likely to savage the men, than save them.

Regardless of all the reading and research, the OP will have little idea of the entire reality of the dog until she is fully mature. 

I certainly wish you the very best of luck with that beautiful puppy, urge you to be ever-vigilant, and look forward to hearing nothing but good things!!!


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Yeah its 4 months later- I think we are all curious how the now 6 month old pup is doing.... Should just be starting those terrible teen months....


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

BernerMax said:


> Yeah its 4 months later- I think we are all curious how the now 6 month old pup is doing.... Should just be starting those terrible teen months....


These dogs mature slowly. 
At six months old, 
she's still just a baby.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

prntmkr said:


> These dogs mature slowly.
> At six months old,
> she's still just a baby.


Still curious.....


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

BernerMax said:


> Still curious.....


I can't speak for the Caucasian Ovcharka, 
but I've witnessed two _(both intact male) _BRT's 
"entering into manhood"...

One was at 18 months old (an acquaintance's dog), 
the other at exactly 53 weeks (my own) ...

The transition in each seemed to have happened, literally,
overnight, and each proved to be an _extreme_ change.
Very, very interesting (and fast) transitions!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

prntmkr said:


> Firstly, I should say, belatedly, that you have a _gorgeous_ puppy. And secondly, like my breed (another Soviet treasure) I do agree that there is a lot of misinformation on line about these dogs. However ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just posted more pictures and a small update on the thread. 

Thanks for your response/comments. She comes from an extremely reputable breeder that was recommended to me by various CO owners and breeders. I wasn't quite content with the breeding program in the USA and so ended up purchasing one overseas. She has and is being EXTENSIVELY socialized. Everyone person that greets her gives her a treat. That is a requirement for me. She is also doing excellent with obedience training. I am working with top notch trainers who have tackled any and every issue this dog has run into along the way to break any habits before they begin. She loves the training and is taking to everything quite nicely.

I will say that these dogs are extremely independent minded. They don't care much for correction and even with a good amount of positive reinforcement will not do something if they don't feel like it. Again, I can't speak from having years of experience with this breed but I do believe so far that they are manageable in suburbia however definitely not for the average dog owner. I watch her like a hawk and train her vigilantly. She is great on walks and in public behaves respectfully. A lot of work and time goes into it but it's been a rewarding experience. I believe there is a massive amount of hype from this breed that needs diffused as well. It's important to remember that it is just a dog, not a monster. Tendencies do exist but with proper care can be managed. At this point I am fully confident and happy with my decision. 

Of course, as she gets older when things begin to change and her true temperament shows I will be updating this thread with relevant information and how I will go about tackling any potentially aggressive behaviors towards people and/or dogs. So far so good!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Edited...just realized the new pictures never showed up. That's fixed


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

I love updated stories.
(Starting a timeline myself with Roman LGD in the picture thread)

Your dog does look like a bear...
Roman looks like a Polar bear.
I am also with Roman for 6 months now... but he is 9 month old 
(abt. 3 months when we got him from a reputable breeder too)...
So yah... also teenager phase.
But no complaints... so good so far and no relapse yet... cross my fingers.
If he do.... will have to start over (crate training) so am prepared.

Anyhoo... will be reading up on your gal too.

You are lucky that your suburbia home allows for big dogs.
My old place has a covenant HOA limit of 80 lbs, no pitty or any bully breeds at that!!! 
Yikes! So glad we moved.

Roman at 100lb+ (dunno... haven't weigh him lately) today.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

cheebamaster said:


> Edited...just realized the new pictures never showed up. That's fixed


Where are the pics? Is there another pic thread, I really would love to see your girl!


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

BernerMax said:


> Where are the pics? Is there another pic thread, I really would love to see your girl!


The pics are on the first page with the puppy pics.















Winter fun!


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

cheebamaster said:


> A couple years ago I began doing some research on various dog breeds. I spent hours of time researching and reading on the internet to find a breed that I really thought would fit my personality as well as be a companion that I could work with for many years to come.
> 
> During the course of my research I discovered the Caucasian Ovcharka. A magnificent breed with amazing intelligence, independence, and natural defender. I became absorbed in the research of this breed and probably have read every ounce of information there was on the internet as well as the couple books that were written on this breed. I have talked extensively with breeds and owners before finally making my decision to import a Caucasian from Europe.
> 
> ...


Too cute!!!


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

hueyeats said:


> Too cute!!!


 Thanks for the pics! 
Hey she is gorgeous, she reminds me of something along the lines of a chow- eurasier... but much more formidable of course.... Wow, yes def would like to hear re; her first heat and how that goes....


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Neat looking dog but my only complaint. NOT ENOUGH pictures! Thanks for keeping us updated.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Updated with pictures, more puppies, and new information! See original post for details


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Wow, you're adding two new CO pups at the same time? I hope you and your SO have read up on littermate syndrome and have a plan in place for a lot of solo and together training. Good luck!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Crantastic,

Thanks for the comment. We have done research on littermate syndrome. We live separately so pups will be raised in different households! Otherwise there is no way I would deal with two pups at a time haha.


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## Cattledogfanatic (Sep 18, 2011)

Can you post a link to the original thread? I'd love to read your updates and see pics. I'm fascinated by the CO.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

cheebamaster said:


> Hi Crantastic,
> 
> Thanks for the comment. We have done research on littermate syndrome. We live separately so pups will be raised in different households! Otherwise there is no way I would deal with two pups at a time haha.


 I was going to say!

Wow.... _three_ CO pups at the same time!! It sounds like you've got a good handle on things though. So Nazar is yours and Baron is your SO's?


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

aiw said:


> I was going to say!
> 
> Wow.... _three_ CO pups at the same time!! It sounds like you've got a good handle on things though. So Nazar is yours and Baron is your SO's?


Still deciding that. It really depends on temperament but she has a special little bond with Baron


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Impressive dogs! So are CO's more of a one person dog or a one family dog? Who does Masha consider "hers"? And if you wished to add more people to your household (children or roommates) are there in precautions you must take?


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

CrimsonAccent said:


> Impressive dogs! So are CO's more of a one person dog or a one family dog? Who does Masha consider "hers"? And if you wished to add more people to your household (children or roommates) are there in precautions you must take?


CO's are much more of a one person dog than a family dog. That doesn't mean that they don't do well in families. On the contrary, they do exceptionally well with children and can bond with everyone to a degree, but in general will find one or maybe two people that they truly listen too. Adding people to household such as a roommate would be fine if they are introduced properly. It won't happen overnight but with a little effort there wouldn't be any issues.

That said, because of there guarding drive, they are potential liabilities. For example, say a Caucasian is raised alongside with young kids and is very protective of them. Then one day the kids have some friends over and decide to have a wrestling match that gets more heated, the dogs guard drive kicks in, and now there's a problem. What's most important to realize about guardian breeds is that you need to be fully aware 100% of the time. It only takes one incident for there to be a full blown problem.


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## Furfinsnfeathers (Jun 5, 2013)

cheebamaster said:


> CO's are much more of a one person dog than a family dog. That doesn't mean that they don't do well in families. On the contrary, they do exceptionally well with children and can bond with everyone to a degree, but in general will find one or maybe two people that they truly listen too. Adding people to household such as a roommate would be fine if they are introduced properly. It won't happen overnight but with a little effort there wouldn't be any issues.
> 
> That said, because of there guarding drive, they are potential liabilities. For example, say a Caucasian is raised alongside with young kids and is very protective of them. Then one day the kids have some friends over and decide to have a wrestling match that gets more heated, the dogs guard drive kicks in, and now there's a problem. What's most important to realize about guardian breeds is that you need to be fully aware 100% of the time. It only takes one incident for there to be a full blown problem.


You actually described a Similar situation that occurred in my home. Thank God I have a softy Shiloh Shepherd dog who just grabbed the kid (Who was wrestling with my son) by the shirt and dragged him across the room. I can completely see how disastrous that could be with a dog like the CO. 

Still and all-those are such incredible dogs you have. I love this thread. I've jumped on it every time I see another post!


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## gailypaard (Aug 2, 2013)

Hi, thought it would be helpful for our family to contact others with CO's...we purchased our Ovcharka "Boo" when she was 10 1/2 weeks old. She is about 17 weeks old now.
She is a real beauty and very loving. We've been working hard to socialize her in our suburbs...so far..so good...
Have you had any concerns as they mature that we should be aware of?
Thanks,
Gail
..


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Hey gailypaard, we also have CO's.
If you don't mind me asking, who did you get your CO from?

And as for concerns, well as you probably know they do get more protective as they get older and less tolerable of other dogs.


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## gailypaard (Aug 2, 2013)

We got her from a German immigrant here in rural Manitoba that breed them. Apparently they have OC X breeds with Newfoundlanders too.
Her temperment is amazing and thought it might be changing soon as sexual maturity approaches.
At what age did you start to notice any behavioural changes in your OC's?


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## gailypaard (Aug 2, 2013)

oops...CO...typing faster than brain can compute...


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

gailypaard said:


> We got her from a German immigrant here in rural Manitoba that breed them. Apparently they have OC X breeds with Newfoundlanders too.
> Her temperment is amazing and thought it might be changing soon as sexual maturity approaches.
> At what age did you start to notice any behavioural changes in your OC's?



Ah that's too bad that they also mix their CO's with other breeds 
Not to sound preachy or anything , but I am all for responsible breeding and I feel like there is no reason to ever mix CO's with other breeds.

Well our male has always been a serious pup; he has always been very aloof with strangers. And he started actively guarding our house & property when he turned about 6 months. 
Our female is not as protective though but she does guards, she is just nowhere near as intense as our male. She started becoming a little more serious after she turned 10 months.
They are both good with dogs they have known since puppy-hood but neither of them are accepting of new dogs they meet. 

The best way to predict of how your new pup will act is usually by observing the behavior of their parents. 
If they are very protective, chances are their puppy will be too. 

Usually in this breed the females will remain friendly towards strangers a little longer. But the more protective CO's are very distrustful of and aloof with strangers even when they are just small puppies.

P.S. if you have any other questions about the breed, feel free to PM me at any time!
I just love to talk about CO's


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Gailypaard,

Mountaindogs is 100% right. It really depends on the parents. My female CO is friendly when she meets people however is a lot more protective at night and doesnt tolerate anyone who comes near my room. For a CO she has a friendly temperament.

My male CO who is only 13 weeks is very protective already. He growls at anyone who comes near the house and if I take him for a walk he will growl and bark at anyone who comes near me. I socialoze him around 300+ people per week and yet this temperament still persists.

My advice is to keep everything 100% positive. If your co has a bad experience he will not tolerate it when hes older and this can be potentially dangerous. That said, newfies tend to have a docile temperament and I doubt youll see any highly aggressive temperament since he is mixed. He definitely will still show some strong co qualities though so socialize as much as you can.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Original post updated with new pics


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

I agree, for owners of this breed it's very important to keep every new experience with their pup as positive as they can. Adequate socialization will help a CO distinguish between something that is simply new or unusual, and a real threat. 

P.S. if I understood correctly, Gail's CO is purebred but the people she got her CO from also breed mixes for whatever reason.


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Masha is so very pretty and Nazar is going to be such a good looking CO when he matures!


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## annadee (Aug 22, 2012)

Wow, beautiful dogs! I can't wait to see how they continue to develop!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Update: Nazar is now around 9-10 months old. His temperament has drastically changed. I socialized him around 40+ dogs/300+ people per week and he still is extremely protective and brash. He is now off-leash reliable trained with a high level of obedience and socialization. However, if he becomes too focused on something he will hit "rage" mode at his will and there is no stopping him. He is sitting around 120lbs now and still has puppy mannerisms but is becoming more and more bold and serious every day. 

I've had a couple close encounters in which he's almost gotten into nasty fights. There is no "off" button with this breed. It takes serious knowledge/socialization and consistency to get a well rounded dog for suburbia. I am absolutely not one to believe in breed bans, but I will say that the Ovcharka absolutely should *NOT* be anywhere near suburbs/highly populated areas etc...All it takes is one mistake or one misinterpretation and the breeds genetic drive will kick in. It amazes me how much of a defense/guard attitude he still has despite the insane amount of socialization/+r training he has received. It is very scary to think about what he would have turned out like if the average/novice dog owner would own one of these in a non-rural setting. 

Masha (the female) is much different temperament. She copes well in suburbia and is generally very good around people and other dogs, however, she came from a european show line which is MUCH different than the kennel in Russia in which Nazar came from. If you're considering this breed, definitely choose a breeder CAREFULLY and don't understimate their ability to protect. Even with her docile attitude, Masha still becomes extremely protective (especially at night) and I feel very safe with her. 

Nazar will continue to grow and become more serious. I have no doubt that he will require careful socialization and will not be walked by anyone except a training professional or myself in crowded/dog filled areas. There is too much potential liability. A keen understanding of canine body language and stress signs is more than necessary to cope well. As long as I can see when he becomes uncomfortable, he can be snapped out of it. However catch him too late, and theres nothing that can be done.

I was really hoping I'd have a different perspective on the breed and hoped to dispel some of the myths and ridiculous internet statements that are abound with them. However, the past few months have personally shown me that a lot of the breed characteristics are true and that training for these dogs is only skin deep. There is a genetic override in my opinion that will supersede any training if they feel it necessary. 

If anyone has any questions concerning proper breeding/training/general ovcharka questions please pm me before pulling the trigger and jumping into purchasing a puppy of this breed. Education and proper handling are key to having a safe and successful Ovcharka. 

That said, here are some new pics of Nazar!!








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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Really beautiful dogs


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

cheebamaster said:


> Update:
> - His temperament has drastically changed...
> - he will hit "rage" mode at his will and there is no stopping him...
> - is becoming more and more bold and serious every day...
> ...


Thank you for the update and insightful posting. I hope (in vain, I suspect) that this will pre-educate any casual, would-be owners. What surprises me (well ... not really), is that despite the fact that Nazar is still a baby, you seem to be a bit surprised that, regardless of your ongoing best efforts, he is turning out to be _exactly_ as his genetics had pre-determined him to be. 

I'm truly happy to have read that, apparently, the other proverbial shoe hasn't yet dropped. And credit is certainly due to you ... few of us could live with that kind of pressure and responsibility on a daily basis. 

I truly wish your dogs long, happy, and uneventful lives with you! 
Also, I should add that, I'm glad you don't live in my neighbourhood. :laugh:

Be careful, and best of luck!!!

_p.s. Beautiful dogs, by the way!
_


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Interesting update! I hope people who're interested in purchasing a caucasian ovcharka find this thread and realize that the warnings found on the internet are not to be taken lightly. 

They're becoming beautiful dogs by the way! Magnificent.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

cheebamaster said:


> Update: Nazar is now around 9-10 months old. His temperament has drastically changed. I socialized him around 40+ dogs/300+ people per week and he still is extremely protective and brash. He is now off-leash reliable trained with a high level of obedience and socialization. However, if he becomes too focused on something he will hit "rage" mode at his will and there is no stopping him. He is sitting around 120lbs now and still has puppy mannerisms but is becoming more and more bold and serious every day.
> 
> I've had a couple close encounters in which he's almost gotten into nasty fights. There is no "off" button with this breed. It takes serious knowledge/socialization and consistency to get a well rounded dog for suburbia. I am absolutely not one to believe in breed bans, but I will say that the Ovcharka absolutely should *NOT* be anywhere near suburbs/highly populated areas etc...All it takes is one mistake or one misinterpretation and the breeds genetic drive will kick in. It amazes me how much of a defense/guard attitude he still has despite the insane amount of socialization/+r training he has received. It is very scary to think about what he would have turned out like if the average/novice dog owner would own one of these in a non-rural setting.


Thanks for the update! This is all very interesting. I've always considered this a breed I'd admire from afar rather than own (I prefer to live in cities anyway), and this plus BradA's stories about his Luytiy really confirms that for me. I'm glad that you're realistic about Nazar's temperament and needs and are committed to properly managing him. 

He's gorgeous, as well (they both are). This really is a great-looking breed.


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

This is very serious breed.Way more serious than any pitbull or bulldog.As I have understood it is rare in USA,right?But it is not in Latvia.The worst nightmare,I think,for any people here-to meet a caucasian.Mostly they are on chains,because they tend to escape and go for walks and sometimes attack people.
When I worked at the shelter there was one male named Rembo,they kept him on chain,but they had some problems when he got off,so the woman who owned the shelter sat in the middle of meadow in front of the huge dog, who was growling and barking like crazy,with meat in her hand.She called her mother telling that if she doesn't answer to phone calls after half our to call a hunter and come to rescue her.Somehow the huge dog become very friendly took the meat and started to lick her face and play like puppy.But he was pretty unpredictable,one second he was big,happy teddy bear,the other crazy wild bear who could kill.


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Actually I find Caucasian Ovcharka's to be very predictable as a breed. A lot will depend on the owner and the upbringing and you can't compare the behavior of a CO that ended up in a rescue with how a CO acts in a loving home that he/she was raised in from puppyhood.
As for the predictability part: they are always on guard.

Now with that being said, this doesn't means we can't have guests over or that we can't take them to public places (we own two CO's). 
However, a CO owner has to be responsible at all times. 
Which means you have to have a sturdy, high fence on your property (a minimum of 6ft/1.8m), the gate has to be locked at all times, when off property they should be on the leash the whole time etc..
And it's probably best to avoid crowded areas with your CO's, especially if a lot of strange dogs are going to be there.

I could post several video's of CO's behaving really well in crowded places. CO's that were born and bred in Eastern Europe.
There is even an owner in U.S. that did agility with her CO's and her CO's have received CGC's. One of them was a CO imported directly from Russia.
But I'm not going to, because the average CO owner can't train his/hers CO's to this extent and it will give a distorted view of what this breed is capable of doing.

Btw, this breed should never be put on a chain, it only makes them frustrated and even more likely to act out. 
CO's require a lot of room and in my opinion they are best suited for people living on well fenced farms that need a good guardian for themselves and their livestock/poultry.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Thanks for the update & pictures!


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

Sadly there are many people who likes aggressive dogs,so they take CO and they have their big aggressive dog.Only problem- 6ft fence wont keep them in property,so they end up chained otherwise people get bitten.CO themselves are not bad,just they are very serious dogs,big and very strong and as it seems it is very easy to make them aggressive.The good news is no need to lock doors if you have one of these  Beautiful,serious dogs for serious and very responsible owners only.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Tofu_pup said:


> I'm a big admirer of the breed and I can't wait to see your Little Bear grow up.
> 
> In the future, keep the two dogs separated when the have food, bully sticks, bones, etc. We use crates and baby gates in my house. It's better to prevent fights than break them up.


I know this has nothing to do with anything but it's been a long time since I have seen you! How have yo been?


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Pasarella said:


> Sadly there are many people who likes aggressive dogs,so they take CO and they have their big aggressive dog.Only problem- 6ft fence wont keep them in property,so they end up chained otherwise people get bitten.CO themselves are not bad,just they are very serious dogs,big and very strong and as it seems it is very easy to make them aggressive.The good news is no need to lock doors if you have one of these  Beautiful,serious dogs for serious and very responsible owners only.


Paseralla, as I wrote before, I actually do own CO's and our fence is 6ft tall. Neither of our CO's have ever tried to escape or god forbid bitten anyone.
Again, proper fencing is what this breed needs not chaining.

CO's are a protective breed and they are not for everyone. I do agree with where you state that they are only suited for very responsible owners.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Gorgeous dogs everyone, but can I be honest, I am not sure they belong in Suburbia....


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