# Dog with Food Allergies (Royal Canin Prescription food??)



## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Hi everybody,

I'm looking for some advice and personal opinions. 

I have a 2 1/2 year old argentine mastiff. He has always been very itchy everywhere, his body, his paws, his ears are constantly getting red and inflamed. He scratches them until they bleed. He chews his paws until he rips the skin. He also licks his backside alot too. (no worms, no fleas and I don't think it's his anal glands because he has pretty hard stools most of the time) 

I alternate between 3 different antihistamines every month (Hydroxyzine, Chlorpheniramine and Benadryl). These help very slightly for body itching. Does nothing for his paws or ears. 

I am constantly putting Mometamax drops in his ears (I think he's becoming immune to it). His ears will be cleared up for a week and then it comes back. No mites and they don't smell. 

For his paws I have tried Resicort leave on lotion, dermacool hc spray, dermapaw ointment, and Gentamicin Topical Spray on his paws. All seem to work temporarily and then I think he becomes immune to these also. The Gentamicin spray (http://www.petmartpharmacy.com/view/?ref=10295) works the best but it has to always be put on even when the symptoms go away. Otherwise it will come right back. But it's a 2 oz bottle for $15.00 and it's very watery, I go through almost a bottle a week. 

I had him on salmon oil for the longest time which didn't help. I've had him on probiotics for a couple months (for a diarrhea episode), that didn't help his itchiness. I just recently started giving him coconut oil but it's only been about a week. 

I keep my home very clean, I use nothing scented, no carpet powder, no scented candles. The only thing scented is dryer sheets but not on his bedding. Air filters are clean. I don't think I have any mold. Nothing has ever been sprayed on my lawn or in my yard. My husband and I both smoke but how likely is it that all this is from cigarette smoke? 

Below are the foods I have tried.

http://www.petco.com/product/15048/Solid-Gold-Wolf-Cub-Large-Breed-Puppy-Dog-Food.aspx

http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/products/dogs/dry_food/sierra_mountain_canine_formula/

http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/us/dog_formulas/meadow_feast/ingredients.php

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/pr...s&reg;+Sweet+Potato+&+Venison+Dry+Dog+Formula

http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/nutrisource/products/gf_lamb

http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/nutrisource/products/gf_heartland


I know it's not that many. I really haven't had him that long though. 

Going through all the ingredients, making sure they are all different than the last and making sure I can afford the food.....it's all very time consuming and confusing. 

My vet has always suggested their Hills prescription food and steroids. I would always disregard both suggestions. That vet has left the office and a new dr. is there. I went the other day to pick up more Mometamax drops for his ears and she came out and asked me if his ears were seasonal and I said no, it's all the time. She said it is very likely the food and she recommended the Hills z/d to me. I said that I heard it's not a very good food. She kind of shrugged a little and said Royal Canin prescription is better than Hills. I think this is the one she suggested - 

http://www.healthypets.com/potatoveni20.html

I asked her to order me a smaller bag (she only had the 25 lb bag) and I would think about it.

But if I'm going to start food eliminations, shouldn't I start with this one instead - http://www.chewy.com/dog/royal-canin-veterinary-diet/dp/29906 and then introduce proteins one at a time? 

My main concerns - 

What is in this dog food that they can't be sold in stores (prescription needed)? 
Is it true that there is no cross-contamination with this hypoallergenic food? (this is the reason she suggested it because trying all different store bought foods may not help me find the cause)
How bad is this food for a dog? (the Royal Canin does look better than the Hills) 
If it relieves all these allergy symptoms wouldn't the pros outweigh the cons?
How long should he eat it to know if it helps? (Vet said 3 months)
How soon will symptoms come after introducing new proteins?
I'd appreciate advice, answers and opinions.


Thanks so much!


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## Woofie2 (Oct 5, 2013)

I have a dog that reacts to a lot of ingredients in dry foods, but does superb on homecooked meals where I can regulate what he gets. 

Aside from homecooked option however - Rivers does superb on Merrick *grain-free*, they have a pork version which is nothing but pork and potatoes, some apples, blueberries, but no chicken, no eggs, etc. 

Take a look at it and see what you think, it's available at Petco - not petsmart, and it is about $50 for 25-28lb bag, but a heck of a lot cheaper (and healthier) then a vet prescribed food.

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/consu...Real_Pork_&_Sweet_Potato&categories=Dog-Grain Free-Dry&age=All_Life_Stages_All_Breeds

Personally, I would try other foods before choosing a vet prescribed version, simply because if in the future none of these other options work and you HAVE to go the vet route - then save that for later. 

Nature's Variety Limited ingredients food options are an idea too; they have one that's solely rabbit; one that's solely duck, etc. 

http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/dog/kibble/LIDrabbit


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

I think the most important thing is to figure out what exactly he is allergic too, even if that means going to one of those nothing in it vet diets for a bit, once he is stable start trying other things. don't make the mistake however that "hypoallergenic" = can't cause allergies. I have a dog with allergies to darn near everything and she cannot eat the vet hypo diets...she is allergic to several ingredients in them lol. I would avoid seriods till absolutly nessasary. for my girl Derma-strength tablets we're a life saver, they helped her for 2 years, the longest anything has worked for her(they do take time, I noticed no diff for the first 2 weeks)


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

You do need to give it time for the new food to work through the dog's system which can be a month or more; I've had a pet food store tell me give a food 6 months before you rule out that the food isn't working; so if the Vet said 3 months that's probably true. I think most people would buy a bag, it didn't work, buy a bag of something else, it didn't work and so on ... 

I noticed that you didn't use any fish based proteins, take a look at Annamaet fish based foods. They have 2 types, grain inclusive and grain free but the grain inclusive includes venison. http://annamaet.com/

Here is a link to chewy - they have a protein selector on the left side to pull up foods with a specific protein in it. http://www.chewy.com/dog/dry-food-294


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice and food options.

I think my main concern would be why is this food not sold "over the counter" ? Why does it need a prescription? 

He did eat the Solid Gold for a while and it has Ocean Fish Meal in it. He had terrible gas while on this food. I would deal with gas if it helped his problems though. 

And the cross-contamination. Is it true that with foods sold in the stores you could have cross contamination? Therefor never really finding your answers?


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes store bought foods can have cross contamination issues if they are made using the same machinery.

I personally like raw the best for trying to figure out what the allergies are... because you can literally feed one protein, one ingredient (pretty much), and so it's easier to figure out what's wrong. Dry foods often have all sorts of ingredients so it can be difficult trying to figure out what your dog is allergic to.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

Rose0295 said:


> Thanks for all the advice and food options.
> 
> I think my main concern would be why is this food not sold "over the counter" ? Why does it need a prescription?
> 
> ...


to answer the prescription question. .because the company decided to market it that way. there is no reason whatsoever for the perscription requirment lol


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Maybe you can try a more unique protein. Such as California Natural Grain-Free Kangaroo & Red Lentils . I would also add the Salmon oil back in it provides dogs with those fatty acids thats good for them.  Unless you think he might be allergic to fish. Also you might want to talk to your vet about a different allergy med as well. Such as Atopica, at the clinic I work at I have seen amazing results with this med when others just didn't cut it. And make sure if you do use a pacific protein food, you are not giving table scraps, or other treats that could cause a reaction. 

My Allergy dog is contained on Loratadine, NB LID Venison, Salmon Oil, digestive enzymes, probiotics, cranberry supplement (he gets UTI's) and the only treats he gets are NB LID Venison. Took forever to find what my boy was good on, you just have to keep trying.  I wish you the best of luck!


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Thanks again everyone. 

Since he wasn't any better on the Natural Balance LID Venison and potato should I even try the Royal Canin vet food with Venison and Potato?

I was going to try California Natural prior to feeding the NutriSource but there was a recall and my pet store didn't have it for months. That makes me a bit hesitant on trying it. I guess the Natures Variety is an option (although it's very expensive)

I have heard about very good results with Atopica but my dog weighing 110 lbs..... that would cost a small fortune. $200 for 30 pills and the 1st month you have to double the dose up.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

> Since he wasn't any better on the Natural Balance LID Venison and potato should I even try the Royal Canin vet food with Venison and Potato?


no. I would either try a different protein source or if I were to try a vet food it would be one of the super allergen free ones that don't contain anything such as Ultra Z/D or Anallergenic just until your dogs is stable and you have a good starting point, THEN try adding in different things one at a time.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> no. I would either try a different protein source or if I were to try a vet food it would be one of the super allergen free ones that don't contain anything such as Ultra Z/D or Anallergenic just until your dogs is stable and you have a good starting point, THEN try adding in different things one at a time.


Thanks Miss Bugs. 

So if anything I should start him out with the Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Hypoallergenic Hydrolyzed Protein HP Dry Dog Food. Of course I would not keep him on this as I don't understand anything that's in it.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If homemade isn't an option, maybe a one-protein canned food like Evo 95%? Canned foods usually have fewer ingredients than dry, to help you narrow down the problem. It will be really expensive for such a large dog but so will the prescription stuff :/. I think canned food probably has less cross-contamination but I guess there could be traces of the other proteins. You could call the company to see if they take any allergen precautions.

I know a cat who can only eat the Hill's z/d canned food. The dry has something he's still sensitive to, so it's not 100% effective for all allergies/sensitivities. I noticed they call it "low-allergen" or "low sensitivity" and not "hypoallergenic" .


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Have you tried doing a home food-exclusion diet? How it works is you feed a bland diet of boiled chicken and rice for a while and see if the allergy symptoms get better. If his symptoms do not improve, then he may be allergic to either chicken (a common allergy in dogs) or the rice. If he his symptoms improve, then you can start add one food item (switch the protein to pork, beef, different types of fish; add in regular potatoes, sweet potatoes, squash, different legumes, barley, rye, oats, quinoa, anything really.) to the bland diet for a few days/week to see if he starts to get itchy again. If he gets itchier, then you know that is likely one cause of his allergies, and you can switch back to the plain bland diet until the symptoms improve before adding the next potential allergen.

It will be a lot of work, but would give a much clearer idea of what he is allergic to. Its not a perfect system, because it can take more than a few days to start to react to an allergen, depending on the individual and the severity of the allergy, but it should help give you an idea at least. If he does show increasing symptoms with any of the single items added in, then you have at least one suspect that you can try to avoid in foods in the future.

For me, the work would be worth it if I had a dog with severe allergies, and considering that you seem to be having such a difficult time pin-pointing the cause(s) of his allergies and finding a kibble that will work for him. But I understand that everyone has different limitations on time, expenses, etc.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> Have you tried doing a home food-exclusion diet? How it works is you feed a bland diet of boiled chicken and rice for a while and see if the allergy symptoms get better. If his symptoms do not improve, then he may be allergic to either chicken (a common allergy in dogs) or the rice. If he his symptoms improve, then you can start add one food item (switch the protein to pork, beef, different types of fish; add in regular potatoes, sweet potatoes, squash, different legumes, barley, rye, oats, quinoa, anything really.) to the bland diet for a few days/week to see if he starts to get itchy again. If he gets itchier, then you know that is likely one cause of his allergies, and you can switch back to the plain bland diet until the symptoms improve before adding the next potential allergen.
> 
> It will be a lot of work, but would give a much clearer idea of what he is allergic to. Its not a perfect system, because it can take more than a few days to start to react to an allergen, depending on the individual and the severity of the allergy, but it should help give you an idea at least. If he does show increasing symptoms with any of the single items added in, then you have at least one suspect that you can try to avoid in foods in the future.
> 
> For me, the work would be worth it if I had a dog with severe allergies, and considering that you seem to be having such a difficult time pin-pointing the cause(s) of his allergies and finding a kibble that will work for him. But I understand that everyone has different limitations on time, expenses, etc.




Last year he had a bad case of diarrhea and was on a bland diet. I was cooking him ground beef and rice. It went on for a good 2 months. I wish I had been paying attention to his itchiness but I was so concerned about the diarrhea and nothing else. He was on all kinds of meds. It was a mess. 

I went through his medical file and receipts and saw that I bought the ear drops right before the bland diet and right after so I had to have been using it while he was eating the ground beef and rice. I could have been using the foot spray too (a bottle of dermacool lasts a long time). 

So he could have been allergic to the rice or even the ground beef? 

Or food could not even be the problem at all. 

I'm hesitant on the canned food. There's also issues here and there with his stools being soft. Won't canned make that worse?


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

It is possible he could be allergic to either beef or rice. Rice is quite common in dog foods, especially foods that are not grain-free. It is also certainly possible that it is not actually food allergies - dogs can get psoriasis and eczema just like people can. Additionally, sever skin irritation can be a sign of some autoimmune diseases; in that case, steroids might be one of your only treatment options. If a bland diet didn't do anything to help with the itching, I would definitely mention the possibility of autoimmune disease to the vet. Sometimes medical professionals (human and veterinary) forget that just because something is rare doesn't mean it never happens.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> It is possible he could be allergic to either beef or rice. Rice is quite common in dog foods, especially foods that are not grain-free. It is also certainly possible that it is not actually food allergies - dogs can get psoriasis and eczema just like people can. Additionally, sever skin irritation can be a sign of some autoimmune diseases; in that case, steroids might be one of your only treatment options. If a bland diet didn't do anything to help with the itching, I would definitely mention the possibility of autoimmune disease to the vet. Sometimes medical professionals (human and veterinary) forget that just because something is rare doesn't mean it never happens.


He's had full blood work twice since we've had him for other issues. Last one was in March of this year. Both came back fine.

I know a contact allergy could cause the itchy feet but what else besides a food allergy would keep causing his ears to flare up? It's always both ears.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeast maybe? He was on a lot of antibiotics. . .have you ever given him probiotics? His intestines are probably all out of whack. That can help yeast take over.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Yeast maybe? He was on a lot of antibiotics. . .have you ever given him probiotics? His intestines are probably all out of whack. That can help yeast take over.


I don't think it's yeast.... they never smell bad. 

He was on a lot of antibiotics when he was having the diarrhea but that was almost a year ago. I have tried probiotics at that time for a few months, it didn't help his itchiness. 

The Mometamax ear drops are an antibiotic/anti-inflammatory. I wonder if too much Mometamax could actually cause more inflammation?


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Rose 
we had 2 allergy dogs in a row, our first's feet would swell up to the size of oranges they got so bad... our 2nd would get a secondary skin infection all over his body (probably from all the steroids messing with his immune system)- little bumps-- and he would have to go on antibiotics and a chlorihexiderm wash, which also helped with the yeast in his footpads (itchy feet increased licking and that warm moist environment causes Yeast)...

So, we made the decision to go to a canine allergist. 
He was tested allergic to tree pollens, grasses, as well as wool (we had a wool carpet that as an indoor dog, he could not avoid) as well as all poultry, wheat, tomatoe (pomace is a common ingredient in dog foods)....
We spent a year tweaking things--got rid of the rug, he stayed indoors when pollen counts were high, and luckily we live near the beach for walks, we cooked for him and stabilized him on canned salmon, cottage cheese and rice... and ended up finding a commercial kibble with venison and brown rice and he was fine on that for many many years.
Lived to a ripe old age of 11.5 (ok for a Boxer) with very little medication for allergies after that...

It seems expensive to go to an allergist, but it really saves you and the dog alot of trouble, and is probably way cheaper then years of steroids and antiobiotics etc.... and your dog will be alot more comfortable as well...


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

First step- ask your vet to run a allergy test on your dog. http://heska.com/

Second step- skin scraping? have your vet perform one.

Third step- bathing try to bathe him with a medical shampoo for your dog. I would even do weekly baths on him

Fourth step- strict diet. No bones treats human foods nothing not even the beef flavor heartworm treats I would talk to your vet about other options here Look for a food with limited ingredients. just because the label says rice and lamb does not mean other proteins and carbs are in that food. This can take up to 6 weeks to see a difference 

Fifth step when he comes back in from outside wipe him down to cut down on exposure to outside risks. even getting booties to cover his feet.

On the prescription diet. Some food companies, I think it is Hills , that does this. Close the plant down clean, disinfect and then make the batch of food. This is to prevent any cross contamination. 

I would also see about boosting his immune system with like Echinacea 0r Astragalus http://thewholedog.org/wholedognews/astragalus-for-your-dogs-immune-support/


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I would bite the "bad dog food" bullet and try Purina HA or RC HP.

The best food is one that works well for your dog, and sometimes these foods work well for dogs with allergies. I would definitely try one or the other since you have tried so many other things.

http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/...ry-Therapeutic-Formulas/Hypoallergenic-HP-Dry

http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Product/HAHypoallergenicDogFood.aspx

We use HA at work on a select few dogs (under vets recommendation) and have had success with it.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Rescued said:


> I would bite the "bad dog food" bullet and try Purina HA or RC HP.
> 
> The best food is one that works well for your dog, and sometimes these foods work well for dogs with allergies. I would definitely try one or the other since you have tried so many other things.
> 
> ...


Yes, if I go with the script food I would start on the Royal Canin Hypoallergenic with the hydrolyzed soy protein .... then introduce other proteins. I think that would be the easiest way to figure out what foods bother him. The price is ridiculous. And he's a 110 lbs, the guidelines are saying he would need almost 6 1/2 cups of food a day - that's ALOT of food.....and a lot of money. 

Anyone know how much an allergy test would cost? I think I asked my vet about it awhile ago and it was $500 + 
I'm scared he's allergic to everything. 


Thanks again everybody. I appreciate all the info.. the more the better.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

see I would be more willing to try to the HA as a starting point, but that's my own dog talking lol, my allergy dog is allergic to rice and chicken fat so the RC HP is no good, because of that if I was going to start on an expensive vet diet, I would go straight to one of these foods that's made of pretty much nothing but broken down minerals like the (Purina)HA, the (RC)anallergenic or the (Hills)Ultra Z/D, otherwise you could be spending all the money for 3 months or more and for nothing, well at least that's how I would feel, but again that's based on the admittedly odd allergies of my own dog lol


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

If the dog is in full blown allergic crisis then going to the nasty hydrolyzed protein kibble is the way to go IF this is a food allergy. Remember most allergies are environmental and the generalized itching your poor guy has sure seems like environmental allergies to me. Have to think of the stuff as medicine that doubles as food. I would absolutely try it for a couple months to see if things change. I would hope it is a food allergy, much easier to deal with keeping a dog away from some meat than dust mites, mold, pollens and such.

I am so glad my dogs' various allergic reactions were fairly easy to pin down. Itchy dog, go for a camping trip on dirt, no itching, ergo grass allergy. Itchy dog, put on flea drops, no itching, ergo flea allergy. Goopy eared dog, cut out sardines, clear ears, ergo sardine allergy. Gooey eyed dog, toast theft results in enormous eye goo, ergo wheat allergy.

I did give up and gave Sassy TemerilP for her itching after flea drops stopped helping. Perhaps she had been able to tolerate 2 flea bites when young and 0 as a geriatric dog. I gave her all of 1/4 tablet every other day, that was .5mg of steroid every other day for a 42 pound dog.

Sassy also had a problem with anal sacs. All her life she had been on chicken and rice kibbles and she was put on chicken and rice homecooked food for kidney disease. Her anal sacs stopped filling up. She apparently was sensitive to something in the good quality and carefully stored kibble. Myotoxins? Mold spores? Grain mites? Rancid fat? No idea but maybe some dogs just plain cannot handle the sort of spoilage kibble gets.

My unproven theory based on the experience I have had as an allergic and itchy human, is that skin is a fatty organ and feeding plenty of fat should help the skin stay nice and fatty. I would itch but rather than spread the usual anti itch cream would slather moisturizing cream on the itch. Heavy cream, old fashioned cold cream type stuff with no alcohol in it. Worked much better and lasted longer than anti itch creams. The equivalent for dogs would be to be sure to feed plenty of fat, especially fat from fatty fish. Supplement with fish oil if using fatty meat or kibble. Give the dog that itch easing shampoo but follow up with a conditioner and leave it on for a few minutes before rinsing.

Little Ginger clearly has a flea allergy so my theory is being put to the test now. What I am seeing is nervous itching with a particular spot she favors but no generalized pink skin. If she isn't sure what to do she bites and itches. I saw this in my grass allergy dog as well.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Ok, so I know to go with the Royal Canin Anallergenic food if I decide.... which I probably will. Makes sense to start from scratch to see if it's food related. I'm torn between trying home cooked or the prescription food. I think buying the food might be cheaper. He's 110 lbs. 

If it's environmental then it must be something that's around all year because I never notice a change..... ever. I actually think he is allergic grass because his belly gets red/rashy a lot when he is out in the yard. 

I keep reading about eye goop (eye boogers). He gets these a lot and never thought anything of it. This is a wheat allergy? 

He has issues all over. His ears (red and inflamed), his butt (a lot of licking), his paws (non stop chewing and licking), his chin (I think he has some acne there, he scratches, it bleeds). His face and eyes will itch occasionally (sometimes he cuts his nose with his nails). Genital area (licking and chewing). 

He chews on his back legs, he scratches his front legs, his neck........ EVERYTHING!

The main issues are his ears and feet... 

His ears are clearing up for now but he is non stop chewing and licking his feet.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

If it is environmental, you might want to look into getting him shirts/sweaters to wear. It may look ridiculous, but should help keep some of the environmental allergens off his skin, at least on his body. Not a great fix for his ears/paws, but might help some at least.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

I'm going to try the Hills Prescription Diet z/d. It's cheaper than the Royal Canin Anallergenic. 

I know that when I start this he is not to get any other food. But ..... is there something cheap I can add to the food to increase calories while reducing the kibble amount? If I go by the bag I need to feed him like 6 cups a day. 

And someone suggested not to even give him the beef flavored Heartgard. What do I give him instead? 

And how bad would it be if he had to stay on this food? 


Thanks again everybody for all the advice and help. |I really appreciate it.


(his paw chewing/licking is out of control right now. None of the sprays I have are working. I think I need to post a question in dog health for instant relief suggestions)


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Ask your vet for the non-chewable Heartgard or just skip the Heartgard for this month if possible (I don't have to give heartworm preventives this time of year but maybe you do---ask your vet). 

I believe pure fat like lard or oil doesn't have any protein so he couldn't be allergic to it, but ask your vet if adding more fat would be a good idea. Too much fat can cause pancreas problems.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

If you need to use a HW preventative, which I'm guessing you would since it hasn't been below freezing long enough in most of the country and there is the concern of micro-climates where mosquitoes can breed year-round, then a topical HW preventative is generally the way to go during a food trial. Revolution or Advantage Multi are your options basically. 

The whole idea of a food trial is to be extremely limited in what the dog ingests, which includes the flavorings in heartworm pills (some are beef, some pork). 

Along the same lines, adding anything to the diet at the beginning doesn't make sense because you want to reduce the potential food allergens down to basically nothing and then carefully add single items at a time. 

Once you figure out what the dog is allergic to, then you can look at options for a different long term diet. Raw/home cooked for example where you can completely control the ingredients or some commercial limited ingredient diets.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

It does make sense not to add anything to the food. I was just hoping because it seems I need to feed him a lot of the kibble and he may still loose weight. It worries me. 

It's actually Heartgard plus which kills roundworms and hookworms. He had severe infestation of roundworms for almost the entire 1st year we had him. The heargard actually helped us a few times (roundworms came out with his stool after taking the heartgard). I think the mosquitos are gone and he hasn't had roundworms for quite some time now. I guess it can be skipped for a month or so.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Rose0295 said:


> It's actually Heartgard plus which kills roundworms and hookworms. He had severe infestation of roundworms for almost the entire 1st year we had him. The heargard actually helped us a few times (roundworms came out with his stool after taking the heartgard). I think the mosquitos are gone and he hasn't had roundworms for quite some time now. I guess it can be skipped for a month or so.


Heartworm "preventatives" treat the dog's exposure to the immature heartworms over the previous month or so. Which means that unless the mosquitoes have been gone for at least a full month AND there are no micro-climates (warm areas near buildings or industrial areas that can keep small pools of water above freezing), then generally HW medicine is recommended. 

If you skip a month of HW treatment, you generally have to get another HW test at the vet's office before they'll refill the script which kind of cancels out any cost of switching to a topical HW medicine for a month or two. 

I'm not a vet, I'm not in your area, but you should definitely run your plans by your vet for both the HW treatment and anything that could potentially be added to your dog's food during the food trial.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Why wouldn't they make them unflavored for the "allergy" dogs ? 

Maybe I don't even want to take the chance of skipping HW medicine at all. God forbid. It would be just my luck too.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Rose0295 said:


> Why wouldn't they make them unflavored for the "allergy" dogs ?


 They do. Although I don't know what the ingredients are exactly. But there is a regular unflavored swallowable tablet for dogs who don't like/can't have the chewable.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Just a thought/ but the itchiness can also be scabies. http://scabiesindogs.com/ It is hard to diagnose so often times a vet will do the treatment just to be safe. These dogs are extremely itchy and food is often the first thing blamed on the dog's disease.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

I'll ask about the non-chewable heartgard. 

I was looking more into the Hydrolyzed diet and came across this - 

_Here's what DogFoodAnalysis.com has to say:


This is an extremely low nutrient food relying on starch to hold it together and hydrolyzed chicken liver/chicken as the primary source of protein. Soybean oil provides a small amount of additional low quality protein. We note, however, that soy is one of the most common causes of food allergies in dogs and in this instance is preserved with a chemical (BHA) that is believed to be carcinogenic.
_


Should I be worried about the Soybean Oil? It is the 3rd ingredient in the Hills z/d.


I know I keep asking a lot of questions but I'm so confused on what to do. Money is always tight to begin with but I need to help my dog. Based on the Hills z/d 17.6 pd bag. - An eight fluid oz. measuring cup of z/d® Canine ULTRA contains 3.1 oz. by weight. So if I'm calculating it right there is approx. 15 days (6 cups a day) worth of food for around $60-$70 (not sure of the cost just yet). And what if he needs a little more than 6 cups? 

Can anyone give me a rough idea how much home cooked would cost me? He's 2 1/2 yrs old lean 110 lb mastiff. 
And what if nothing at the local grocery store helps? Where in the world would I get duck and rabbit if I needed to try that? 

Thanks again for all the help.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Rose0295 said:


> I'll ask about the non-chewable heartgard.
> 
> I was looking more into the Hydrolyzed diet and came across this -
> 
> ...


Whats your living situation like? Rabbit and duck arent too hard to keep in a backyard.... Rabbits are popular for Raw diets... 
Its just hard, cause like you said before... what if its the grass hes allergic too? Then its not really about what you feed him....
On the allergy kibble- its an elimination diet, meant to be Temporary... like I said my dog looked like a walking skeleton on it, but it gave us time to figure out a diet he could get by on (the homecooked one til we found a kibble that worked)... its just a stop gap measure while you get a real diet going...


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## mashlee08 (Feb 24, 2012)

Firstly, no duck, there is a cross reaction with chicken and duck, no duck, no poultry. Rabbit,horse or goat is your best bet. Sometimes fish, but they recommend not because fish is commonly in dog food now days as well so can be an allergen.(This was told to me, by a veterinary dermatologist) Also, no rice! Stick with sweet potato or pumpkin. The entire point of an elimination diet is to feed alternative protein and carb source which they might not have been previously exposed to, then you start adding in more things. Don't start with the most common allergens like chicken and rice.


Second, stop stressing about food and if it's bad, like rescued said, if there is a chance that this food could help your dog, you need to bite the bullet and do it. Adding coconut oil for calorie value is also allowed, again told me to by my veterinary dermatologist. 

You need a bathing regimen, NOT with medicated shampoo, if it's allergies especially atopical and not mites or bacterial then medicated shampoo *will make it worse*. You need an alpha keri oil or oatmeal based shampoo, something that will help build the skins defensive barrier back up. Some people recommend every 2nd day until you get it under control, I bathe Indie weekly but she gets coconut oil or alpha keri oil rubbed in her skin and it has helped loads.

this does sound like a bad case of atopic dermatitis, which is what my own dog has. atopic dogs are lacking ceramides in the outer layer of the skin.The defective skin barrier lets water out and pollens and other allergens in which triggers allergic reactions in the skin. Histamine release in the skin causes redness and a maddening itch. This is why it is important to keep the dogs skin moist and frequent bathing helps the barrier and also gets rid of allergens and soothes the itch at the same time. 

There is a hugely high chance it is not just food, but lots of other things too. I would recommend going through the allergy testing when you have money, I have done the Heska test and intradermal prick test and it was honestly a relief just to get results so that you can know where to start. 

My dog is allergic to grass, weeds, most pollens, fleas, most varieties of mites and some other insects. Food only plays a tiny tiny role in it. Going by the severity of what you are describing, this sounds exactly the same.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

I was thinking that his ongoing ear issues (red/itchy) and his butt kicking could be a food allergy. His paws/skin I think is atopic dermatitis. His belly gets red when he's in the yard a lot and he breaks out in hives if he's bit by those tiny gnats in the summer. 

Forgive my ignorance on the bathing subject but won't too much bathing dry out his skin more? 

I'm currently doing a twice a day dip (just his paws which are really bad right now) in Povidone Iodine Solution and water. I'm also rubbing coconut oil on his paws at night. It's only been 2 days so no change yet. I'm having a hard time keeping him away from them so they heal up. I'm going to try to buy a cone but not sure if he'll be okay with that on all day. I have a bad feeling he'll try to rip it off somehow. 

I'm not so much stressed about the food as I am the cost of the food and wasting my money. 

If I hold off on the vet diet I think I will try the Natural Balance LID rabbit and potato? I'd like to find rabbit and something other than potato though. Natures Variety Rabbit is very expensive and has chicken fat and salmon meal.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Forgive me if I am being ignorant. But it says in your Avatar you are from Pennslyvania (I know its a big state)-- could you make a pilgrimage to some nice Amish farmer and stock up on some rabbits and put them in your freezer? You could feed like one large bunny every second day mixed with whatever you decide he is not allergic to...to stretch it out...(but start with straight bunny rabbit for a while and see if that helps).... and Whole bunny, they need organ meat too....
Not a raw diet expert, but have read up on it a bit, and that was one thought I had about cheap(er) meat sources....
We would breed our own, but wouldnt be able to butcher, we are wimps...


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

BernerMax said:


> Forgive me if I am being ignorant. But it says in your Avatar you are from Pennslyvania (I know its a big state)-- could you make a pilgrimage to some nice Amish farmer and stock up on some rabbits and put them in your freezer? You could feed like one large bunny every second day mixed with whatever you decide he is not allergic to...to stretch it out...(but start with straight bunny rabbit for a while and see if that helps).... and Whole bunny, they need organ meat too....
> Not a raw diet expert, but have read up on it a bit, and that was one thought I had about cheap(er) meat sources....
> We would breed our own, but wouldnt be able to butcher, we are wimps...


I guess I could if it came down to it. I want to pass on the raw diet though (as much as it might help). I can barely stomach cooking my own raw meat let alone handling all that to feed my dog. 

I laughed out loud when you asked about my living situation and keeping rabbit and ducks in my yard. Definitely could not do all that. I used to have rabbits as pets.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Since you're in Pennsylvania. . .you might check out www.hare-today.com They have whole ground animals---it's still meat but much less yucky than feeding entire pieces. They have novel proteins like rabbit and llama, and the prices are decent (it will still be a lot for a big dog, but maybe the same/less than prescription diets).


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Thanks Willowy, that's an idea if I need it. Never would have thought raw meat could be shipped. They are too far to drive to, they are west, I'm east (near Philadelphia). 

So today since I'm still undecided on what to do and was running out of his usual food and I need to wean him, I went and bought a bag of Natural Balance LID rabbit and potato. Opened it and immediately found what was either cat food or small bite dog food of a different color. And smudges of a different color from something on the rabbit kibble. 

ugh... not a very LID huh? I guess you really are stuck with the script food/home cooked if you need to do a food trial.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I thought of Hare Today also. If you have to get it shipped, also check out My Pet Carnivore. Even beef might be a novel protein (since most dog food is chicken or lamb based) and the whole ground beef would be somewhat more affordable than rabbit. This time of year you can use ground shipment instead of air shipment which helps the cost. 

From MPC, ground meat comes in 1, 2 lb or 5 lb plastic containers. For a 110 lbs dog, if you were feeding a combination of meat and a single carbohydrate (like sweet potato), then you'd need about 2 lbs per day. (2-3% of body weight if only feeding meat but you'd go on the lower side of that if adding a carbohydrate). So you could order 2 lbs containers and basically just empty it into a bowl without ever handling it. 

I add in grocery store cuts of meat that are on sale but for a food trial, one protein and one carb would be good.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Just was told today that Merial is coming out with a drug to help itchy dogs. Vet Derms helped in this drugs. I know that it will be a while but it is supposed to hit the market in February. Already on the trail, it is helping a lot of dogs. It will be more costly than steroids but cheaper than atopica. Although, it will be more costly than steroids, steroids does cause harm to the body.


I would do the allergy testing just so that you can know what is setting off his allergies This way you can avoid the irritants. 

The kibble size- I prefer a dense kibble compared to a large air laden kibble fed to my big dogs.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

luv mi pets said:


> Just was told today that Merial is coming out with a drug to help itchy dogs. Vet Derms helped in this drugs. I know that it will be a while but it is supposed to hit the market in February. Already on the trail, it is helping a lot of dogs. It will be more costly than steroids but cheaper than atopica. Although, it will be more costly than steroids, steroids does cause harm to the body.
> 
> 
> I would do the allergy testing just so that you can know what is setting off his allergies This way you can avoid the irritants.
> ...



That's excellent news because that Atopica is ridiculously expensive.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Yes it is because so many owners complain about this problem with their dog I will be going to a conference on it prior to it coming out on the market. I hope that it does what it supposed to do. Keep your eyes open for it.

Personally for me if I had a dog and I think that food was a problem, I would just switch the food. If your child was allergic to a food would you wean that food out of the diet or just stop the food? Some of your dogs problems could be food related so why keep giving him a food he is allergic to. A kibble would be the most cost effective option for your big dog. Pre-made raw is expensive for big dogs. This is when it is nice to own a small dog.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

So I am going to pick up a bag of the Hills z/d today and start this trial. I can't afford the Royal Canin Anallergenic and the Royal Canin HP has chicken fat in so I'm not going to buy that either. 

Now while he is on this I know he shouldn't get anything else. BUT..... there are times I need some kind of treat.... ear cleaning, nail clipping, etc. do you think bananas would be ok while on the trial? He loves bananas and apples. Could there really be an allergy to fruit? 

Or am I stuck buying the Hills treats for $10/bag?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Maybe buy a few cans of the z/d wet food to use for treats? I don't know how soupy or smushy it is, you might be able to roll it into "meatballs" or have him lick it from a wooden spoon while you clip his nails.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

The z/d canned food is very jello-like in texture. we cut it into chunks and freeze it (don't let the chunks touch eachother while freezing or it'll turn into a giant mass) and use those for treats. As far as canned food goes, it has about the best texture possible for using for treating.

Warning: If you're not used to it, the texture and color is really, really, really gross. And this is coming from a person that picked up a piece of puppy poop with her bare hands the other day. Just a warning haha!


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

That's what the vet said too. To buy the wet and freeze balls of it.
I came home with just the kibble hoping you guys would say ... "he should be ok with bananas" He's gonna miss his bananas and apples. 

Thanks guys. $85.00 later (25 lb bag).... fingers crossed this helps some of the issues.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

He may be fine with bananas, but he may not be and the idea of the very expensive food is to cut food allergens to nearly nothing and then see if the problem is food or environment. 

In humans, bananas can cause reactions for those with latex allergies (as can avocados, and to a lesser degree, apples, papaya and melons and potentially a few other vegetables and fruits). So if you feed those fruits and your dog has a reaction, is he reacting to the food or a contact allergy? Or is it a contact allergy unrelated to the food?


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Shell said:


> In humans, bananas can cause reactions for those with latex allergies (as can avocados, and to a lesser degree, apples, papaya and melons and potentially a few other vegetables and fruits). So if you feed those fruits and your dog has a reaction, is he reacting to the food or a contact allergy? Or is it a contact allergy unrelated to the food?


Interesting, never would have thought that. thanks! 

I pray it's the food....


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Quick question....

Do you guys think he will go #2 more on this food? Since he will be getting about double the food.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Well, yeah, double intake means double output . Poor you!


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Rose0295 said:


> Interesting, never would have thought that. thanks!
> 
> I pray it's the food....


Yup...I'm sadly one of those people that cannot eat bananas because of an allergy to latex. And I LOVE bananas lol. Same thing with melons...can't eat any kind of melon, which I believe is related to ragweed allergies. I'm allergic to like 25 different things lol.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Willowy said:


> They do. Although I don't know what the ingredients are exactly. But there is a regular unflavored swallowable tablet for dogs who don't like/can't have the chewable.


Hey Willowy... do you recall the name of the unflavored tablet? I talked with my vet and they are all flavored. My only option is the Revolution as Shell suggested. I wanted to avoid a topical (messy, don't want a reaction, might be more money?, etc.) 

I've looked online and I think back in 2010 there was an unflavored which they discontinued.

And how long would the beef from the heartgard last in him? If he is allergic to beef, could he have symptoms from the heartgard he took a month ago and when would it subside? 

^^ does that question make sense?


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Did someone say to take away his bones too? He has nylabones and elk antlers.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Rose0295 said:


> Hey Willowy... do you recall the name of the unflavored tablet? I talked with my vet and they are all flavored. My only option is the Revolution as Shell suggested. I wanted to avoid a topical (messy, don't want a reaction, might be more money?, etc.)
> 
> I've looked online and I think back in 2010 there was an unflavored which they discontinued.


Advantage Multi is another option, a topical also though. I can't find a currently available tablet that doesn't have a meat protein or flavor (which is a meat source) in it. 
If you haven't used a topical before, it really isn't messy or anything. You just part the fur, put the dose against the skin in a few places along the neck/spine line and it dries within a few hours. After it is dry, you can brush off any residue. I only dislike topicals for dogs that swim a lot or for households with cats or dogs that might lick and ingest the topical med on other animal. 

Another option might be just plain ivermectin. The liquid is used for deworming farm animals like horses and cows and for treating demodetic mange in dogs. It is the same active ingredient used in Heartgard. The liquid form is sometimes mixed with a sweetener to make it easier to orally dose dogs that need to take it as a daily treatment for mange, but just by itself it only needs a tiny amount monthly for heartworm prevention.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

You can apply the tropical at night to avoid petting the dog. In the morning the product has dried and no worries. Yes all toys, bones should be picked up during this trail. A good outcome is based on how much we took away any allergen causing products during the 6-8 week trail period. Then slowly products are re-introduced to the dog to see if any allergic response is noted. He could even have a plastic allergy so a stainless bowl would be the way to go. This even includes the water bowl.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

I guess I'll give the revolution a try. One of the techs that work at my vet said something unflavored should be coming within 6 months or so. Who knows..... 

Trifexis is made with pork liver and hydrolyzed soy to give the "beef flavor". I guess heartgard might be made with the same inactive ingredients (can't find it anywhere). I'll need to know when I try to give it to him again. Guess I have to call them. I assumed "beef flavored" would mean it's made with beef, not pork liver. 

how long does the flavoring from the heartgard stay in him? Like if he's allergic to something in the heartgard would he still show symptoms from when he took it last month


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Can you see if your vet will just sell you a dose of liquid ivermectin?


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Personally, I would take away the elk antler for now, but nylabone is probably okay since it is just plastic? I would make sure to wash it really well though, put it through the dishwasher even.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

You could also see if your vet does the proheart 6 injectable for heartworms http://www.proheart6.com/HeartwormD...utm_campaign=Broad+Branded+Neutral+-+Consumer


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Rescued said:


> Can you see if your vet will just sell you a dose of liquid ivermectin?


I'm not sure... it wasn't mentioned. I'm assuming they don't carry the liquid. I wonder if they can get it...


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> Personally, I would take away the elk antler for now, but nylabone is probably okay since it is just plastic? I would make sure to wash it really well though, put it through the dishwasher even.


I wonder if he is allergic to plastic though. I can't find much on the internet about plastic/rubber allergies in dogs. 

And how do they flavor the nylabones with chicken, peanut butter, etc.?


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

luv mi pets said:


> You could also see if your vet does the proheart 6 injectable for heartworms http://www.proheart6.com/HeartwormD...utm_campaign=Broad+Branded+Neutral+-+Consumer


When I saw this I thought it was pretty cool... one injection lasts 6 months!! This would be perfect.

But then I read the product insert https://online.zoetis.com/US/EN/Products/pdf/ProHeart6DVM/ISI/ProHeartCIS_PI.pdf



WARNINGS:
ProHeart 6 should be administered with caution in dogs with pre-existing allergic disease, including food allergy, atopy, and
flea allergy dermatitis. In some cases, anaphylactic reactions have resulted in liver disease and death. Anaphylactic and
anaphylactoid reactions should be treated immediately with the same measures used to treat hypersensitivity reactions to
vaccines and other injectable products.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Rose0295 said:


> I'm not sure... it wasn't mentioned. I'm assuming they don't carry the liquid. I wonder if they can get it...


Most vets should have it, and if yours doesnt any large animal vet will. We use it to treat earmites as a topical and if we need higher doses for other stuff. All large animal vets will have it because its used in parasite prevention

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....=34525401043&gclid=CN-jyqmJs7sCFQrxOgodxF8AsQ

its the same thing you just have to cut it because the dose for a 1000lb cow is (obviously) way bigger than for a 50 lb dog.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Rose0295 said:


> IAnd how do they flavor the nylabones with chicken, peanut butter, etc.?


I have never heard of a plastic allergy in either dogs or people. However, I did not think about the flavouring (I have never bought them b/c Snowball doesn't chew anything)... are all nylabones flavoured?


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## DaisyDC (Feb 24, 2013)

Rescued said:


> Most vets should have it, and if yours doesnt any large animal vet will. We use it to treat earmites as a topical and if we need higher doses for other stuff. All large animal vets will have it because its used in parasite prevention
> 
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....=34525401043&gclid=CN-jyqmJs7sCFQrxOgodxF8AsQ
> 
> its the same thing you just have to cut it because the dose for a 1000lb cow is (obviously) way bigger than for a 50 lb dog.


Yep, even if your vet doesn't carry it, they should be able to call in a prescription order to somewhere like Valley Vet (who I've ordered equine vaccines from before and been very happy with) or Wedgewood Compounding and have it sent to you. I still find it weird that it's prescription in liquid form, or for dogs, but I can go buy a case of dewormer paste with no hassles at the feed/tack store.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Hmm, I thought Heartgard came in an unflavored tablet but maybe they don't make it anymore.

Regular liquid Ivomec is something like $35 for a bottle that would last forever (or until the expiration date ) for one dog, but maybe you don't want to buy that much. I agree you could ask your vet if you can get one dose but I don't know if they'll do it :/. It's technically off-label use so some vets might not want to go there.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Ok, so I officially hate Hills z/d. It's been 2 weeks. He is going # 2 once a day (a couple times he didn't go all day). He seems to struggle each time and the stools are very loose (pudding like). His energy level has dropped - he sleeps a lot more. I would love less energy if it wasn't health related. 

He has never taken this long to adjust to new food (even with a quick switch). I know it could take a while for him to adjust but now he is licking his butt even more than before and now it's probably due to the soft poop not expressing his anal glands. 

Just thought I would update my thread. And now I wonder if I should have went with the Royal Canin HP (regardless of the chicken fat which my vet said he shouldn't react to)


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

Doesnt hurt to try something else if it isnt working.i only suggested not the HP because your dogs allergies seem severe and i know my dog reacts to many things the vet says she "shouldn't" react too lol. I was told she should not react to chicken fatcas well, so i gave her stuff that has all 100% known safe ingredients for her but also had chicken fat, she had 2-3 thumb nail size peices and she spend the entire night trying to chew her feet off.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> Doesnt hurt to try something else if it isnt working.i only suggested not the HP because your dogs allergies seem severe and i know my dog reacts to many things the vet says she "shouldn't" react too lol. I was told she should not react to chicken fatcas well, so i gave her stuff that has all 100% known safe ingredients for her but also had chicken fat, she had 2-3 thumb nail size peices and she spend the entire night trying to chew her feet off.


Yeah, it's hard to argue with vets sometimes. My luck he would react to it. I can't barely afford this food and the RC Anallergenic is even more money. 

I think I'll give it a bit more time for him to adjust. It is a big difference in food.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

what about the Purina HA? might be a cheaper option then the anallergenic and looks safe ingredients wise(ie, "nothing" in it) for what its worth, my dog eats natural planet organics Rabbit and Salmon, which she does decent on, its not perfect, she still chews sometimes and she has no undercoat(she's a Retriever) but its one of very very few foods that are OK for her to eat (primarily because so many foods add either Eggs, or Chicken fat. then go and add green lipped muscles or other shellfish as a supplement, and my girl is deathly allergic to shellfish)


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah I would try Purina HA instead of ZD. We use the HA dry and the ZD canned where I work, HA dry is cheaper than ZD dry.

I would keep at it for at least a few weeks longer. You got this far, don't give up until you're positive its not working.

http://www.chewy.com/dog/royal-canin-veterinary-diet/dp/29906

This is another one we use that you might be able to ask about?


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

rescued, the RC HP is what we were refering too, it contains chicken fat which her vet said he should not react to, however I know my dog DOES react to it(I was also told my dog "shouldn't" react to chicken fat) , she's concerned that with her luck her dog would react to it as well.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

I have also done a search on allergic reactions to chicken fat and it is out there. No use is spending the money on it even if there's a chance. 

His stool today had some form to it. Still very soft but it's a start. We'll see how it goes. 

And so far so good with his ears. I stopped the Posatex drops on Dec 8th and his ears have been clear since. Usually they would flare up again by now (knock on wood). 

Thanks again guys for all the help!!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Ahh I see that now! I actually did read haha, just somehow missed that.

Also Rose, I assume you dont work for a vet or any animal thing? Purina Vet Diets has a program that they usually sell at discount to people that work in animal fields.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

So it's been a month now since he has been on the z/d. There have still been a couple days where he did not go # 2 at all. There is barely any formed stools. He still randomly struggles when he does go. And now for the past few days he doesn't seem to even like it anymore. He'll eat a little of it and go back to it later. 

I know the vet said to give it 3 months but I've seen no change in the foot chewing or his body itching. I've noticed his ears have stayed clear but it could be because I used different meds last time. (was always using the Mometamax, and tried Posatex). 

I cannot figure out if his butt licking is better from the food because he is licking it even more than before (I don't think his anal glands are expressing)

Money is even tighter than before so I'm torn on what to do.


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> what about the Purina HA? might be a cheaper option then the anallergenic and looks safe ingredients wise(ie, "nothing" in it) for what its worth, my dog eats natural planet organics Rabbit and Salmon, which she does decent on, its not perfect, she still chews sometimes and she has no undercoat(she's a Retriever) but its one of very very few foods that are OK for her to eat (primarily because so many foods add either Eggs, or Chicken fat. then go and add green lipped muscles or other shellfish as a supplement, and my girl is deathly allergic to shellfish)


Thx Miss Bugs. 

Any other foods comparable to the one you feed? (Natural Planet Organics Rabbit and Salmon) It seems kinda pricey. I saw approx. $63 for 25 lbs


Did you ever have any butt licking issues with your dog that was food related?


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

Well... I guess $63.00 isn't that bad for 25 lbs. Natural Balance LID is about the same for the rabbit and potato.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

lol given prices of food where I live, I cant help ya there! $63 for 25lbs is dirt cheap around here, the same bag here is $75 retail., I pay about $50 for 25lbs but only because I get it through my work, and I deal in the food(ie staff gets a staff discount, I get cost)

edit: nope, no food related butt issues here!


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## Rose0295 (Nov 29, 2013)

So I spoke too soon about his ears. He is itching his ears again and they are starting to turn red. 

I'm not sure what to do. 

What would you guys do? Would you continue to buy the script food when after a month there's no change? Would another script food even do any good?


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