# Livestock Guardian Dog Breeds.



## Monster Malak (Jan 18, 2011)

Just wanted to see if there were any other people with LGD's. Would like to hear about the other breeds out there, their strengths and weaknesses. I only have experience with the Great Pyrenees and Kangals. More recently getting into the Malakli, more of a dual purpose breed though. 
I raise my Kangals to protect my Exotic Fowl from the ever abundant coyotes and other vermin. I would rather protect them naturally than try to trap, kill, poison, etc...
For me the Pyrenees (At least the ones I had) would only bark at the fences to keep the coyotes back. But in the winter when packs of 10-30 coyotes would come to feed, the Pyrenees would get overtaken.
I feel that with what ever breed, having more than one is important. More the better. I havent heard a coyote howl in 6 years since getting my Kangals. 
Would like to hear about other breeds.


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

Well, I'm not sure exactly what breed Léon is, but I've had a few people tell me he might be an Estrela mountain dog, so we are going with that for now. he fits the standard both phisically and temperament-wise. Recently, his guarding and protection instinct have really kicked in, so we are learning to manage his agressivity towards other dogs and some people. Overall, he is one very loyal, affectionate, stubborn, sometimes frustrating, but always loving dog.










Your dogs are beautiful, by the way!


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## Monster Malak (Jan 18, 2011)

Beautiful dog, are they related to the CAO? He sounds like my Malakli with temperment. The Kangals are alot more people friendly. Usually only agressive to those that make us uncomfortable. The Malakli love you so much,,, but they dont want to share you,,,haha. How big is your boy? This is a Malakli,,,, the Kangals big cousin!!!!!!


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

They are originally from Portugal. Here is more about the breed history: http://www.emdaa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=31

Léon is around 120 -123 lbs, and I haven't measured him in awhile, but I think he is around 40-42 inches at the withers, so not as big as many other LGBs. Big enough for me though! 

He is the definition of a one person dog: he tolerates other people, but only listens to me. He loves to be around his people all the time, but doesn't let strangers get close. It's really nice when we go out walking in the evening to know that he would protect me should anything arise. On the other hand, it's no as easy to be around other dogs as he gets quite protective when they approach me. We are constantly working on a balance between socializing and keeping him from getting nervous or defensive.


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## Monster Malak (Jan 18, 2011)

Sounds like a big dog. I love them. Funny how I used to see Rotts, German Shepherds as big dogs. But now seem small. 
Sounds like yours is a typical LGD. Have some great traits as a family guardian. Just important to socialize them. But you are so right. We can go anywhere and feel safe. Wife and kids at home alone, feel safe. Neighbors being robbed by METH HEADS, guess they are still smart enough to avoid my house. And even a 4 month old pup guards as well as a grown German Shepherd. Part of the breeding to function as a LGD. People frown when I recomend a LGD breed for a family Guardian. But to me it makes all the sense.
Low Prey drive, so children and pets are safer. Usually low energy breed when action not needed. Always on watch! Although may allow someone into your space,, will always be on watch. And LOVE like the best of dogs. There are a few disadvanteges, but nothing intolerable. Appretiate the link!!! Neat breed. How did you run across such a rare breed?


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

http://www.canids.org/occasionalpapers/livestockguardingdog.pdf


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

_Overall, he is one very loyal, affectionate, stubborn, sometimes frustrating, but always loving dog._

You forgot drop dead gorgeous.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I dont know anything about those breeds, but maybe I should! I have a horrible coyote problem! I see them every darn day and they're a nuisance.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

My experience is with several breeds, but the one I like best is the the CO. I like the temperament. Then the Kangal and CAO. 

What I love is the size, beauty, defense drive, loyalty and ability to survive elements in the CO and some of which is found in the others but Kangal isn't as high of defense drive and want to roam, move more. CAO the same, CO is a real home body though so I like that.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

I do not know why you would have seen german shepherds as huge since they are limited to 24-26 inches for males at the shoulder. To many here in America do like to breed dogs super large or super small against breed standard though.

German shepherd are not livestock guardians, they are herders.

Your dog is lovely. What have you found to be the best and worst traits of the breed?


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

Monster Malak said:


> Sounds like a big dog. I love them. Funny how I used to see Rotts, German Shepherds as big dogs. But now seem small.


Ha, my Rottweiler is the biggest dog i've ever had and he seems very small to me (26 inchs and around 105 pounds). It blows my mind when people say he's big. I bet he would look like a kitten to you 

I don't really think I have waht it takes to own one, so I most likely never will, but I LOVE COs. They are just wonderful dogs.


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

Monster Malak said:


> Neat breed. How did you run across such a rare breed?


As I said, no one knows for sure what he is, but he fits all the descriptions of Estrelas I have read, and two breeders have contacted me and told me they are sure he is one. The mystery is still how the heck did he get to be lost in the forest in Canada 2 years ago, in the dead of winter.



LazyGRanch713 said:


> _Overall, he is one very loyal, affectionate, stubborn, sometimes frustrating, but always loving dog._
> 
> You forgot drop dead gorgeous.


Now THAT goes without saying! :smile:


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## TheBearCat (Jun 5, 2010)

I don't have experience with LGD's either, but I do love the CAO. Beautiful dogs.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

What I like about CAO is that while they make a good LGD they also have herding ability, to move and keep together a flock or bunch. CO really don't do that in true fashion.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

I keep 4 Pyrs & an Akabsh/Maremma cross...Only two Pyrs are in with my goats though...The other 3 did not cut it as working guardians so they guard the couch...lol!
I agree that a Pyrs first line of defense is barking to ward off intruders & you are right...A Pyr or two are no match for a pack of hungry coyotes!...Thankfully there is no real predator problem around here so my dogs do the job...No sense in bothering with my little goats for a predator when he can go to the farm down the road & not be hassled by angry Pyrs!
Now my Akabsh/Maremma cross was in with sheep for 4 yrs. before he came into rescue...I found he hated being away from his people & chased the goats no matter what I did so he is a happy house dog now...One difference I have noticed between him & my Pyrs is that he alerts a lot less & when he does he means it!...Kind of a bark softly & carry & heavy bite if needed kind of dog.
Your dog is absolutely stunning!:wave:


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

Monster Malak, with the reactions I get from passersby when I walk with Léon, I can't imagine the things you hear when you are with your dog!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Monster Malak said:


> Beautiful dog, are they related to the CAO? He sounds like my Malakli with temperment. The Kangals are alot more people friendly. Usually only agressive to those that make us uncomfortable. The Malakli love you so much,,, but they dont want to share you,,,haha. How big is your boy? This is a Malakli,,,, the Kangals big cousin!!!!!!


holy crap, that is one BIG dog! Welcome to the board. Wish Brad A was around to chat with you, he has a very interesting group of dogs


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## Tails (Apr 5, 2010)

I am wondering how tall the man is?, his proportions make him look fairly short. 
Beautiful dog you have there, totally stunning!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Monster Malak: my husband wants to know how tall you are and how tall is the dog?


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Are Tibetian Mastiffs true LGDs? Cause they're a breed I really love. 
A CO is high on my "most coveted list". I am in complete awe of the breed as a whole. Only met one IRL, and she wasn't overly fond of me (I worked in the kennel she was boarded at). This particular dog once bit through a car tire...
I'm looking into pyrs. I've met a lot of them, and have yet to meet one I did not like.


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## Monster Malak (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for the responses everyone. Seems like everyone likes the LGD's for the same reason,,,,,loyalty, love, BIG dog. 
When I commented on a German Shepherd being big, it was more when I was young. Still wouldnt want to be bitten by one. 
My Kangals stay at home 99% of the time in the day. Always in the Yard. But at night they run the coyotes off. Have been seen 2-3 miles away, coming home in the morning. Then sleep all day...haha.
The Big Malakli is 38inches tall, 220 pounds (Lean). Man is 5 foot 9 inches, or so he says. Dog pulls 10,500# tractor for exercise, runs 2-6 miles a day. He still lives in Turkey ;(.. But I just picked up his son and neice yesterday. His son is 5 1/2 months old, 28 inches tall, 90 pounds. Growls so deep it sounds like a LION roar.
To the person that says they have a Coyote problem, a LGD serves many functions. Run off or kill all the coyotes, protect your home and family, and gives all the love in the world. All for some food and love.
cant beat that kind of deal,,,,haha.
I have never had or been around a co, cao, or tibettin Mastiff. I think I would love them all. I think the Tibettin Mastiff has been used as a LGD, but also as a guard dog also.

With the Kangal and Malakli. We have talked about the strengths. Bad points. They are not always ready to please you. They do things they feel are needed. Luckily, they are also easy going dogs. if you want a dog to fetch,,,, get another breed. If you want a dog to follow you anywhere you go (if away from home) they are great. With livestock and especially poultry, getting them over their puppy stage and out of the (that looks fun) age. Then if you are going to use them as a house dog, they are BIG. Big on couch, bed, on in your way on the floor. But I still love them!!!! Thanks everyone!!


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Monster Malak said:


> .
> I would rather protect them naturally than try to trap, kill, poison, etc...


Just wanted to say I totally respect you for this. I completely understand people needing to protect their livestock/animals, but there's FAAAR to many, sick, twisted people out there that get off on torturing coyotes and feral dogs.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> Are Tibetian Mastiffs true LGDs? Cause they're a breed I really love.
> A CO is high on my "most coveted list". I am in complete awe of the breed as a whole. Only met one IRL, and she wasn't overly fond of me (I worked in the kennel she was boarded at). This particular dog once bit through a car tire...
> I'm looking into pyrs. I've met a lot of them, and have yet to meet one I did not like.


I met a CO female once, and she was extremely friendly. I was pretty surprised, though I met her outside of her house, which I'm told makes a big difference. CO's don't feel the need to protect areas that aren't "theirs". I've never met a Tibetan Mastiff, but they are awesome dogs. If I was ever going to get one of the really challenging dogs to own, it would have to be a CO, I think. Not sure why - they're just fascinating.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Those are some amazing looking dogs! Though the 'see how big my dog is' having the dog stand with its paws on the shoulders does get old fast. You see a lot of those macho pictures on the web. 

I love LGDs, particularly the Cão da Serra da Estrela, Sarplaninac and Mastin de los Pirineos. I also really like Tornjaks, but feel like I don't know enough about them yet. Also, since I saw one particular beautiful Central Asian Shepherd a couple weeks ago... the breed has gotten my interest.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

The historical use of the Tibetan Mastiff, to my knowledge was a guard dog of the Tibetan monasteries. The smaller tibetan breeds, not sure which one atm would alert the larger TM of intruders and the TM would ward them off. Whether or not the TM was ever used as a LGD I am not sure about that. All I ever heard of was a guard dog, which they are still used today as.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

That is one HUGE dog!!! But he looks sweet. 

Guardian dogs are definitely dedicated to their job and they're courageous. I think, besides some of them are cute, that's what I like about them. They aren't afraid to go after coyotes, foxes, etc. The guard dogs I like are: Maremma Sheepdog, Polish Tatra Sheepdog, Slovak Cuvac, and the Tornjak.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

LittleBear said:


> LGD's are my favorite type of dogs. I personally love CO, Tibetan Mastiff, Sharplaninac and the Tatra.
> Right now I have a 7 month old male Caucasian Ovcharka.
> They're the most amazing dogs, but only for experienced dog owners. Definitely not suited for people who don't have any prior experience with LGD's..
> Courageous, independent, intelligent, aloof with familiar guests and aggressive towards strangers and therefor not for people who can't handle them.


My sister has a 4 year old Akbash right now. We don't have livestock, he's just a companion dog. I adore him to pieces, but he is very protective, and not very dog friendly with strange dogs or people friendly, for that matter. To my family, he's as harmless as a kitten. She wants to get a Tatra next, and in my opinion, they are so similar, it's hard to tell the difference, so I'm excited for that. But it would be nice to try a CO. I met one at a dog expo a year or so ago and, though I wouldn't say he was friendly, he wasn't aggressive. Moreso just aloof. He let me fawn all over him though  Gorgeous breed. Overall, I adore all LGB!

This is my sister's Akbash, Ailchu.


















He's trying to bite the water here LOL!


















And Ailchu with his mom and Zoe, my dog.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Black Mouth Cur, one of the original American livestock herding / protection dogs, without which the west could not have been settled. As a herder, they practice an in-your-face intimidation style of herding. As a protection dog, they are fearless and will not back down from any size predator. They also happen to be top-notch scent hounds who will go after any size game including bear. I have no cows, but I know these dogs to be very gentle with the family and welcome guests, but quite intimidating to a stranger at the door.

Dusty (now deceased):














And my latest, Tucker (50% ridgeback):


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

LittleBear said:


> Extremely friendly?
> Either it wasn't a real CO, or the dog was from that one U.S. CO breeder (I won't name any names of course) that is trying to make CO's more mellow. Which is very wrong IMO.
> Because if you as a breeder don't like CO's basic temperament, then that's not the right breed for you.
> So although CO's shouldn't show any aggressiveness when they are outside their homes, they are still in general very aloof with strangers.
> ...


No, she was definitely a CO, and not from a 'mellow' source. She was outside of her house, which makes quite a bit of difference. The owner walked her out on a chain leash with a prong collar, just in case. The owner told me he regularly takes her with him to all sorts of places, keeping her at a high level of socialization. Also, some are simply less distrustful of strangers than others. I feel certain that if I'd done something bad to her owner, something very bad would have happened to me. She was also fairly young, less than two years. From what I've read in the books and on the Thunderhawk Caucasians site, CO's can take upwards of 3+ years to be fully ready for guard duty, though many exhibit guardian tendencies very young. 

There is, IMO, absolutely no way at all to mistake a Leonberger for a CO. The Estrela Mountain Dog certainly looks more like a CO than a Leo, but still very different. I've seen accounts of very large, Georgian type CO's being friendly with strangers, but aware of any changes in their owner's demeanor that might signal a threat. Not all of them are like this, of course - most are just as you said. But some have a lower innate active defense response than others, and so are better in mixed company.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

LittleBear said:


> He's absolutely stunning! Just gorgeous
> Personally I think that most LGD's really enjoy just being a companion & a guard dog, as long as they have a big backyard, which I'm sure your sister has
> Judging by the description he has a real LGD/Akbash temperament, which is a great thing of course. Because too many breeders nowadays are more interested in winning a dog show or using rare breeds as therapy dogs (don't ask me why, but it really does happens), than using the dogs for what they were originally bread for.
> Tatra's are amazing dogs too, beautiful, beautiful dogs.
> ...


My sister thanks you  He certainly does have a nice, big yard to run around in. He actually came from working lines. The breeder owns a farm with livestock, so the parents were actually doing what they were bred for. Ailchu has exhibited that guardian instinct with our other pets as well as us. It's very interesting to see. I know my sis could handle a CO. She's just got that strong leader personality. And actually, there is a Tatra breeder 2.5hrs from us so that's not too bad. I'm not sure if there re any CO breeders unfortunately. It's too bad. The one I met at the dog expo, his owner told me he had to have his imported from Europe. He was 11months old and definitely showed some guarding instinct. And you are right, to some people, especially to the untrained eye, a CO can be confused with a Leo or an Estrela. I am obessed with Leos and want one someday. And when I saw that CO, I asked if it was a Leonberger. The guy was a bit snotty about it :/ But whatever. Beautiful dog.

I think it's safe to say it's not that uncommon to confuse this with a Leo or Estrela


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

LittleBear said:


> Lol, you have never had a CO before yet you will tell me what a real CO is supposed to act like.
> What an ego you got there.
> As I said before, I actually have a Caucasian Ovcharka, I'm originally from Eastern Europe and I have plenty of experience with this breed. So please don't bother to tell me how a real Caucasian Ovcharka should behave.
> For your information meeting a (show-line) CO and actually owning one that's not bred by U.S. breeders is something completely different.
> ...


I also don't like prong collars, but this wasn't my dog. Yes, the video that Thunderhawk supported was vile, but that doesn't preclude them as a source of information. I've also met Leos, and there isn't a snowball's change in Hell that someone would mistake one for a CO. They look completely dissimilar. The fact that you own CO's doesn't mean someone else doesn't know anything about them. Look, I don't know what your problem is, talking about excessive ego and such, but I'm done with this. You're extremely rude. Lively debate is a healthy part of any forum, but you're crossing over into belligerence without any cause.

I should expand by saying that if you think I'm incorrect, then say so in a civil manner and give references or some backup (besides saying you're an owner and so your knowledge trumps all else). Also, leaving out bits like your generously applied "lol", not adding things I've never said like 'happy go luck" and "lick a stranger", not adding offensive bits "stick your Newfoundlander's" (I'm assuming that was a mistype and not a more serious insult) or references to my supposed ego issue - these things will assist in not creating animosity in the people you're posting to.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> I've also met Leos, and there isn't a snowball's change in Hell that someone would mistake one for a CO. They look completely dissimilar.


I don't mean to come off as rude here. Believe me, I'm not, I hate conflict. But your comment here offends me. Because I, in fact, did mistake that CO for a Leo. You cannot say "there isn't a snowballs chance in hell" because people DO mistake them. I've done it. My sister has done it, my mother. Especially people who are not experienced with any of those breeds. Google all 3 at once in separate browsers and compare. Tell me they don't look somewhat similar. They certainly are not "completely dissimilar". A chihuahua and an CO are completely dissimilar. A Leo, Estrela and CO are not completely dissimilar.
Just saying


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

Lunachick said:


> I don't mean to come off as rude here. Believe me, I'm not, I hate conflict. But your comment here offends me. Because I, in fact, did mistake that CO for a Leo. You cannot say "there isn't a snowballs chance in hell" because people DO mistake them. I've done it. My sister has done it, my mother. Especially people who are not experienced with any of those breeds. Google all 3 at once in separate browsers and compare. Tell me they don't look somewhat similar. They certainly are not "completely dissimilar". A chihuahua and an CO are completely dissimilar. A Leo, Estrela and CO are not completely dissimilar.
> Just saying


I apologize for that statement, then. Fact is, the response from LittleBear was so offensive, I overstated my response. I find the Leo and CO completely dissimilar, but if other people think they are close in appearance, this is not for me to judge.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> I apologize for that statement, then. Fact is, the response from LittleBear was so offensive, I overstated my response. I find the Leo and CO completely dissimilar, but if other people think they are close in appearance, this is not for me to judge.


It's ok. I can be a bit of a hypocrite. I get really weirded out when someone confuses a certain thing for something that, in my opinion, is so completely different. So I understand. That CO I met was the only one I've ever met in person. And he looked so much like a Leo to me plus that breed is so rare. Leos are much more common where I'm from. Heck, there's a breeder only 20min from me and I know many people who own one so I just assumed he was a Leo as well. You can imagine my shock when I found out he was a CO  Pleasantly shocked of course!


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

Lunachick said:


> It's ok. I can be a bit of a hypocrite. I get really weirded out when someone confuses a certain thing for something that, in my opinion, is so completely different. So I understand. That CO I met was the only one I've ever met in person. And he looked so much like a Leo to me plus that breed is so rare. Leos are much more common where I'm from. Heck, there's a breeder only 20min from me and I know many people who own one so I just assumed he was a Leo as well. You can imagine my shock when I found out he was a CO  Pleasantly shocked of course!


To meet a CO, I had to contact a breeder in a nearby state, and have him refer me to a person who had purchased one from him who also lived within my city limits. I got lucky in that. I was planning to drive to Las Vegas to see the breeder's CO stock. I have no idea if he is a good breeder or not - I never really got that far. I started researching giant dog breeds over a year ago, and CO's really fascinated me. I ordered books on them, because you just can't find any stocked locally here, and finally got to meet the female I mentioned. As I said in my OP in this thread, I was surprised at her demeanor. Even off her property, I expected her to be, at best, highly suspicious, and at worst hostile. The owner seemed a bit surprised as well, so maybe I just smelled good to this one. I was thinking of purchasing a CO, but wanted to know enough to make a good decision. After the many warnings of the extreme responsibility involved in raising one, I knew I should meet a few prior to making a decision. I was luckier with the Leo - I contacted a local breeder, who put me in touch with an owner that used to breed, and who lives just 5 minutes from my house. I was very impressed with the Leo. I also met with the breeders themselves, and met a male/female pair of theirs, who were just as impressive. I had to drive a bit to meet a Newfoundland, but it was worth it. The breeder's ranch had 9 full-grown Newfies, and I was sold that this would be a great family dog. Newfies and Leos are, as I've read the standards, about the same size as the CO, but are very friendly and not so much work to maintain. I have other dogs, and to be honest, before taking on the CO, I think I'll wait until they've all passed, so I can dedicate my time to him/her. I never was able to meet a Tibetan Mastiff or a Kangal, but they're also fascinating. I read everything I could on all of these breeds, and watched videos to see their interaction with people and other animals, but there's only so much you can get from secondary sources, and I'd need to meet a few prior to getting one. Before arranging to bring a CO into my home, for instance, I would make certain to meet both males and females from multiple breeders prior to making a decision. I've read every book I could find on them, but nothing beats empirical evidence. Right now I'm happy with my Newfie pup. He'll be huge and strong, but also very calm and friendly, and easy to socialize. I don't have to worry about my Newfie mistaking the UPS man for a dangerous intruder, which is a good thing right now. Maybe when a CO is my only dog, or one of two.

Quick edit - I also met a few Great Pyrenees, and while a little suspicious, these turned out to be very large and friendly dogs, after they decided I was OK. They didn't bark often, but when they did, it was enough to rattle your bones. I've heard that many of the giant breeds are like that, but the Great Pyrenees are the only ones I've experienced so far. I've met a St Bernard, and I had a St Bernard mix growing up, and these are wonderful dogs as well. Tremendously strong, but very friendly. I think that sums up my giant breed meet and greets.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> To meet a CO, I had to contact a breeder in a nearby state, and have him refer me to a person who had purchased one from him who also lived within my city limits. I got lucky in that. I was planning to drive to Las Vegas to see the breeder's CO stock. I have no idea if he is a good breeder or not - I never really got that far. I started researching giant dog breeds over a year ago, and CO's really fascinated me. I ordered books on them, because you just can't find any stocked locally here, and finally got to meet the female I mentioned. As I said in my OP in this thread, I was surprised at her demeanor. Even off her property, I expected her to be, at best, highly suspicious, and at worst hostile. The owner seemed a bit surprised as well, so maybe I just smelled good to this one. I was thinking of purchasing a CO, but wanted to know enough to make a good decision. After the many warnings of the extreme responsibility involved in raising one, I knew I should meet a few prior to making a decision. I was luckier with the Leo - I contacted a local breeder, who put me in touch with an owner that used to breed, and who lives just 5 minutes from my house. I was very impressed with the Leo. I also met with the breeders themselves, and met a male/female pair of theirs, who were just as impressive. I had to drive a bit to meet a Newfoundland, but it was worth it. The breeder's ranch had 9 full-grown Newfies, and I was sold that this would be a great family dog. Newfies and Leos are, as I've read the standards, about the same size as the CO, but are very friendly and not so much work to maintain. I have other dogs, and to be honest, before taking on the CO, I think I'll wait until they've all passed, so I can dedicate my time to him/her. I never was able to meet a Tibetan Mastiff or a Kangal, but they're also fascinating. I read everything I could on all of these breeds, and watched videos to see their interaction with people and other animals, but there's only so much you can get from secondary sources, and I'd need to meet a few prior to getting one. Before arranging to bring a CO into my home, for instance, I would make certain to meet both males and females from multiple breeders prior to making a decision. I've read every book I could find on them, but nothing beats empirical evidence. Right now I'm happy with my Newfie pup. He'll be huge and strong, but also very calm and friendly, and easy to socialize. I don't have to worry about my Newfie mistaking the UPS man for a dangerous intruder, which is a good thing right now. Maybe when a CO is my only dog, or one of two.


Yes, see, when we get a knock on the door from the UPS man or say a solicitor of some sort, my sister's Akbash is right at the door, trying to break through to the "threat". I don't even have enough time to get to the door and the "threat" is off running. Literally 
I'm jealous you have a newf pup. How old? I adore them. Well, I adore most of those giant teddy-bear like dogs. But there are only a select few I'd be able to own. Newfs and Leos are def a couple of them. I've met both on numerous occassions. But like you, I'd need much more interaction than that. I watch videos and read and read but it's just not enough when making such a decision. Right now I'm researching Norwegian Buhunds and Icelandic Sheepdogs. They are rare so it's difficult to get what I need to make a decision, but I plan to do what you did and meet some owners and breeders and their dogs and order some books, etc.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

My little guy is just 8 weeks and 2 days old. Already he's 20 lbs. I posted a couple pics of him in my "Dogzilla" post. He's really a handsome little/big guy. And very sweet, too. The Newfie tail is so thick it reminds me of a T-Rex's tail. When my little guy's dad came running up to greet us (my wife and I went to the ranch several times), he ran by the car and there was a loud 'thump' as his tail bumped our car. They can get REALLY big. One of the black girls at the ranch is only around 110 lbs, but the average is probably the same as the breed average, 130-150 lbs. I'm taking the mean average there. I've seen average weights posted that go much higher than 150 on average. My puppy's dad weighs at least 180, I would say. He's a very big boy. Sweet as can be, though. They're all very good-natured dogs.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

LittleBear said:


> Yes I'm sure your sister could handle a CO. After all only an experienced dog owner can handle an Akbash from a working line.
> IMO for working breeds there shouldn't be any difference between working and show lines, but sadly I see it more and more often.
> Luckily there are still plenty good Akbash and Tatra breeders around in U.S./Canada because they're actually actively using them as livestock guardians, like the one your sister got her dog from.
> I get asked if my dog is a Leonberger all the time lol and sometimes people even ask me if he's a St. Bernard cross


A Saint Bernard cross? WTH? Lmao people crack me up! I can understand confusing a CO for a Leo but a Saint Bernard mix? My sister was actually asked if her Akbash was a golden retriever once haha Seriously? And most of the time when she corrects them, they've never heard of an Akbash. You should see the looks she gets. But it pleases us whenever she gets the occasional "Is that an Akbash?" or even "Kuvazs/Maremma".
Exactly, an Akbash from working lines is pretty serious so CO wouldn't be much more trouble. You know, around here, no one shows Akbash dogs. They aren't recognized by the CKC and the only breeder I know of in Ontario is the farm owner. All the Akbashs I know of are farm dogs. So that makes me happy that at least here, they are bred for what they were meant for. I just hope that Tatra breeder is the same.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

LittleBear said:


> Imagine if I were arguing with you about _Newfoundlands_ and their behavior without ever owning one and telling you what you claim isn't true simply because at one point in my life I've met someone else's _Newfoundland_.
> How would that make you feel?


That's kind of a nonissue, isn't it? The only thing Newfoundland is doing is defending his ability to correctly identify a CO and defending the dog he met as not "from that one U.S. CO breeder that is trying to make CO's more mellow." He offered several possible explanations for why the dog was exhibiting such uncharacteristic behavior, like away from home territory, young/puppy tendencies, and heavy socialization by her owner. I don't understand why this is so offensive and disrespectful to you.

lol.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

LittleBear said:


> You are a very disrespectful person and by that I mean that you don't respect someone's experience with that breed, simply because you don't agree with them (me in this case).


How is NewfoundlandOwner "disrespecting" you? Or even disagreeing with you? I've read every post on this thread and I haven't seen a single person claiming that COs in general are big friendly goofballs. NewfoundlandOwner has researched COs and met with one breeder (and plans to meet with more breeders before ever buying one) and was surprised when that _one_ specific CO they met was friendly -- surprised, because they _know_ that's not the norm. You're the one being rude, coming in here, putting words in peoples' mouths and berating them because you don't think they know as much as you do. We have a couple of other CO owners on this board and they have done a lot to educate people here without being rude about it, which we definitely appreciate.

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/67821-my-dogs.html (The whole thread is great; Brad describes the COs' temperament well. Also, gorgeous pictures!)

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/65278-caucasian-ovtcharka-2.html (Mostly Brad's posts, but some others as well.)


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

LittleBear said:


> Oh wow, let's all gang bang the newcomer.
> As if that isn't rude?
> Get off of your high horse and spare me the attitude.
> Researching and actually owning a breed are 2 different things.
> ...


Oh wow, guess I was wrong about you being rude. You're making a great impression here. 

On the subject of COs being less defensive off-property... Brad owns and uses COs for guarding purposes and has helped breed a litter. Even he has said this:



> Having said that, Blue [Cane Corso] is mos def less defensive than our CO - but he is also always "on" - does not matter if he is on property or off... while our CO kinda "turn off" when they are off property. They will guard our car and our house, but they take a few days to start guarding a new location - so they can be walked in public with little issues (using common sense, of course... no petting from strangers!).


No one on this thread has claimed to be an expert on COs. No one here has said they want to run out and buy one with no research (I don't even want one, period). I don't understand why you're getting so upset.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yes, I _know_. I, like everyone else on this thread, _agree_ with you that COs are definitely for experienced owners and are not the kind of breed that's going to be friendly with strangers. I haven't said anything about wanting to own one (because I _don't_ want to own one). NewfoundlandOwner might, in the future, but plans to meet with several breeders and make absolutely sure they could handle a CO before ever buying one. People here aren't claiming to be experts; we _want_ to be educated about the breed -- and getting educated about a breed is the first thing a person should do before meeting breeders and dogs of that breed and then possibly eventually buying one. This is why I don't understand your anger.


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## The_Monstors (Oct 1, 2010)

LittleBear said:


> Oh wow, let's all gang bang the newcomer.
> As if that isn't rude?
> Get off of your high horse and spare me the attitude.
> Researching and actually owning a breed are 2 different things.
> ...


Way to gang up on everyone else. Rude as hell...you won't last here calling people idiots and mentally challenged....and for what? You're arguing in a discussion. Everyone else trying to talk you down. Respect is part of the forum and just know Mods are watching your comments and members can flag your rude post insulting Crantastic. Eff that noise. It's not right.

Hi and bye you'll be banned soon anyways going on like this or you can calm down and we can welcome you as a member with insight on rarer guardian breeds.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

LittleBear said:


> But when NWowner said to me: "The fact that you own CO's doesn't mean someone else doesn't know anything about them." bugged me, especially after he/she claims they've read many books about the breed.


How is this not a true statement?



LittleBear said:


> To make a long story short: true CO's are not extremely friendly towards strangers.
> That was my only point.


Excellent. Nobody on this thread has disagreed or is disagreeing with you about this.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

Wow, sounds like things got way out of hand after I went to bed. Since I can't find the posts these replies reference, I'm guessing that LittleBear deleted them all. All I can say is that I did not mean to spark off an argument like this. Actually, my OP here in this thread was just a quick reference to the one CO I've met. I'm for chilling and forgetting all about this. It isn't important in any case. As Crantastic said, I'm not planning on running off to buy a CO, and will probably never own one. At this time, I'm quite happy with my Newfie. 

I'd like to think we can disagree on something here without getting so upset over it.

Edit - I know we got off on the wrong foot, but I really am fascinated by many giant dog breeds, so if LittleBear was just having a bad day and doesn't mind letting things slide, I'd love to hear what living with a CO is like.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> At this time, I'm quite happy with my Newfie...
> I'd love to hear what living with a CO is like.


Too bad the Moscow Diver is now extinct. The M.D. was a Soviet experiment to develop a working water dog by crossing the Newfie and C.O. 

My understanding is that the experiment met a dead end, once it was determined that, when working, these dogs were more likely to bite than save the sailors they were sent to rescue. 
:laugh:

P.S. The only reason I know about the M.D., is that it was one of the secondary breeds used in the development of the BRT.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

Avie said:


> I love LGDs, particularly the Cão da Serra da Estrela, Sarplaninac and Mastin de los Pirineos. I also really like Tornjaks, but feel like I don't know enough about them yet. Also, since I saw one particular beautiful Central Asian Shepherd a couple weeks ago... the breed has gotten my interest.


Wow, I hadn't seen the Tornjak yet. What a beautiful dog!


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

prntmkr said:


> Too bad the Moscow Diver is now extinct. The M.D. was a Soviet experiment to develop a working water dog by crossing the Newfie and C.O.
> 
> My understanding is that the experiment met a dead end, once it was determined that, when working, these dogs were more likely to bite than save the sailors they were sent to rescue.
> :laugh:
> ...


Holy crap! Crossing a breed known for extreme guardian aggression with one known for its sweet temperament doesn't seem like a winning proposition to me. I would assume that the CO's famous ability to discern a threat from a non-threat would be crippled by the easy-going nature of the Newfie, who don't see many things as threats at all (though I've both read and seen a Newfie sit between their human and someone they didn't know). A cross like this seems likely to result in an unstable temperament. Do you know why this was attempted? Newfoundlands already do a very good job at water rescue. CO's do a very good job at guarding. Why mix them?


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> Wow, I hadn't seen the Tornjak yet. What a beautiful dog!


Me too, I just researched it last night and _wow!_ And funny enough, there's a breeder in Ontario! I wasn't aware we had so many different rare breeds available around here. Not that I'm about to run out and get one. It's just nice to know there are so many people in love with rare breeds.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> Wow, I hadn't seen the Tornjak yet. What a beautiful dog!


I can't agree with you more  
I had this picture as my background on my laptop for the longest time: 









Tornjaci Dani & Fanny
If you click on this link, you'll view a photoshoot of these two wonderful Tornjak.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Nice pics Avie!! They are so strong looking and beautiful at the same time; I used two in my last story: Shadow (b/w) and Snowbelle (tan/white). Not that other LSG aren't strong and pretty.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

NewfoundlandOwner said:


> ... Newfoundlands already do a very good job at water rescue. CO's do a very good job at guarding. Why mix them?


I can only guess, based on conversations with long-time Russian breeders.

After WWII, the Soviet government, owning (amongst every other thing/s) their own kennels and research facilities, did a lot of experimentation with genetically creating (and improving existing?) dog breeds...

It was, apparently, felt that the Newfie was somehow lacking ... that, perhaps, their work ethic/drive was either too soft or too limited, and that a more athletic, more "multi-functional" dog to work their waters would be more suitable for their requirements. 

Also, and not that I'm an expert on the C.O., but I would not say that "their ability to discern a threat from a non-threat" is not exactly "famous". On the contrary (and I could certainly be corrected here), they were originally developed as a far more intense, more serious flock guardian than we are used to, here in the west. Any and every intruder was to be considered a threat, and any threat was to be eliminated (and not simply warned off). It was a "kill first and ask questions later" philosophy. Different times. Different realities...

I suppose this is similar to the fact that the original, Soviet BRT temperament was far too sharp and intense to have made a suitable family guardian in our society today.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Which LGD breeds are best suited for which jobs? Howcome some breeds are a lot more popular than others? For instance I know a lot of people with farms that have Great Pyrenees, and some others that have Anatolian Shepherds. Are there certain situations where various breeds work best? Is there a difference between employing a LGD to guard a small family farm with a large variety of animals but a small number of each, (like a few chickens, a couple of horses, a few goats, etc.) and guarding a large herd of a single type of livestock, like sheep or cattle?

Also, from what I've read, apparently the CO is more inclined to guard the owner/property, whereas breeds like the Great Pyrenees is actually guarding the livestock? Is this accurate?


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

That's something I'd like to know too. 

Maybe it differs per LGD breed. For instance, I know that the Pyrenean Mastiff had to escort very large flocks of sheep into the mountains and back again, every half year. Apparently the Kangal was always with moving herds (?) and so had to have great stamina.
Maybe it also has to do with the type of predators that the breed was bred to defend against? Estrelas had to guard against Iberian wolves, Sarplaninec had to guard against European wolves and European brown bears, Caucasians had to guard against anything passing by? 
Just throwing things out there, I feel like I'm fishing in the dark.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

Nargle said:


> Which LGD breeds are best suited for which jobs? Howcome some breeds are a lot more popular than others? For instance I know a lot of people with farms that have Great Pyrenees, and some others that have Anatolian Shepherds. Are there certain situations where various breeds work best? Is there a difference between employing a LGD to guard a small family farm with a large variety of animals but a small number of each, (like a few chickens, a couple of horses, a few goats, etc.) and guarding a large herd of a single type of livestock, like sheep or cattle?
> 
> Also, from what I've read, apparently the CO is more inclined to guard the owner/property, whereas breeds like the Great Pyrenees is actually guarding the livestock? Is this accurate?


Not exactly. From what I understand, the CO is quite happy to guard the owner and property, which would include any livestock on it. Basically, everything living or inanimate become part of the CO's charge. The primary difference, as I understand it, between dogs like the Great Pyrenees and the CO is the level of aggression (besides the very different appearance). CO's will fight just about anything, and have been bred to deal with threats definitively. While many LGD's will use intimidation and chase possible predators off, the CO tend to chase it down and kill it. 

I need to add here that this is research-knowledge only. I have no direct experience owning any LGD breeds.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Those are interesting dogs. I have a question though. Being used for protection, against people, how many of these dogs would actually bite? Not just guard, but actually bite? Are they tested against people? How many people has your dog bitten?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Newfi, actually I was the one who deleted the guys posts in the process of banning him.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

From what I understand each LGD has its own purpose. Some guard sheep, others goats, others whatever. They actually put the puppy in with the herd so they grow to love the herd as their own pack, they sleep/eat with the herd, etc. And they aren't afraid to go after a wolf, coyote, fox, etc. I don't know if this is still practiced, but back in the day guardian dogs used to wear those spiked collars. It was said that if they fought an animal, that animal (like a wolf) couldn't go for their throats. So the dog was protected. And if given the chance, yes I think the dogs would bite...not their humans but the animal they're defending the flock against. 

That is what I've heard. So yes, I believe their each used for a certain purposes. 1. What they protect. 2. Where they come from (long coats help in winter). 3. How protective are they (that they will go after either a fox or wolf). I'm sure there are other reasons, but that's all I can come up with now.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

I know of those spiked collars! I do believe they're still in use with working animals. But the confusing thing is that they have different names all around. For instance, the Mastin de los Pirineos (Pyrenean Mastiff) traditionally wears a spiked collar called a _carlanca_, a Maremma traditionally wears a _roccale _or _vreccale_, and there are more names for them, like _hanaka_, _lanaria_, _pratolano_, maybe more... 

Okay, I forgot what point I was trying to make... 

Anyway, confusing collar situation. I just refer to them in general as iron/spiked collars. Does anyone know if there are actual differences between all these names or whether they're just different languages for the same thing?


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

cshellenberger said:


> Newfi, actually I was the one who deleted the guys posts in the process of banning him.


That's too bad. I'm not sure why he got so upset, but there are so few people around that own rare breeds like the CO. It would have been nice to get some info from him if he calmed down.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

He just kept getting worse, we don't put up with rudeness like that from our long established members, those with a much lower post count get very little if any warning.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Meshkenet said:


> Well, I'm not sure exactly what breed Léon is, but I've had a few people tell me he might be an Estrela mountain dog, so we are going with that for now. he fits the standard both phisically and temperament-wise. Recently, his guarding and protection instinct have really kicked in, so we are learning to manage his agressivity towards other dogs and some people. Overall, he is one very loyal, affectionate, stubborn, sometimes frustrating, but always loving dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have a look at Carpathian Shepherds... he may have a little of that breed in him


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

My family and I just got a new pup. Her Moma is Great Pyrenees x Maremma and her Dad is a pure bred Carpathian Shepherd. Her Moma got sick and we had to bring her home at 4 weeks. This was definitely not the plan but we rolled with it. We got her home and settled in. Then got her on a high fat content large bred puppy food and a milk replacer. She's now 7 weeks old and is headed to the vet next week for an exam and deworm/needles but I'm just wondering... is 18lbs normal for a 7 week old pup?


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

gypsyrose said:


> My family and I just got a new pup. Her Moma is Great Pyrenees x Maremma and her Dad is a pure bred Carpathian Shepherd. Her Moma got sick and we had to bring her home at 4 weeks. This was definitely not the plan but we rolled with it. We got her home and settled in. Then got her on a high fat content large bred puppy food and a milk replacer. She's now 7 weeks old and is headed to the vet next week for an exam and deworm/needles but I'm just wondering... is 18lbs normal for a 7 week old pup?


18 lbs is huge - neither our 8 wk old pyr - anatolian or our Bernese mt dog were anywere near that size.... Berner we had a recorded weight on= NINE lbs at 8 weeks, and he is now 130lbs age 2...

I would love to keep this thread going as am very interested in the LGDs - so far the pyr-anatolian is great for a small homestead, he guards everything as he is fairly bonded to the dogs and people but protects his territory as well....
and for next dog I would love a Pyrenean Mastiff (from that lady at LGDs Nevada)..

Maybe slow down on the high fat food -- fast growth is not good for the giant breeds, goats milk is very well reccomended, can you get any of that?


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

They sell goats milk in some supermarkets around here so it shouldn't be hard to get. However the vet was actually the one who said that she needed the high fat food until is 8-10 weeks. Because she's not getting her Moma's milk. I'm really hoping my scales are just off and she isn't actually that big. 

My pups name is Gypsy. She came from near Edmonton about four hours from here. She has more the shepherd coloring. Tan body, some black along her back, black around her muzzle, around the tips of her ears, and black eyebrows. But she seems to have a coat like the Pyrenees. And a little bit of attitude to go with it. She's got huge paws and big droopy ears. I weighed her in this morning at 8lbs 8oz. She's almost house broke and does sit, paw, and lay. She seems to be extremely intelligent! She is being well socialized with other dogs and lots of kids and adults.

She won't be guarding livestock full time though. On weekends we go to my future in laws ranch and she be working then. But the week she will be at my house. Last year we had 14 black bears, 3 cougars, 2 bobcats, countless foxes and coyotes, and one griz... and I have two small kids. Needless to say this concerned me a bit. She'll more or less be a deterrent. We have a full fenced in yard but the apple trees are too tempting for the bears. And unfortunately where the apple trees are is not our land so we aren't able to cut them down. So we got Gypsy. She's more of an alarm than a guard dog though.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

And since my last post she's just a little over 20lbs now


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

gypsy rose, she looks fine, very cute, def looks like you will get a anatolian style dog with the pyr coat --

ours isnt a fulltime livestock guard either - but he digs under the back cattle gate to supervise the goats if he senses intrusion, I am up late today d/t his barking half the night, be prepared the main line of defense is LOUD obnoxious barking- it was a near full moon last night, so great visibility, there are plenty of hungry bears about making up for their winter hibernation....
(our neighbor behind us has apple trees, so they mostly go there- apple trees are a real hazard in bear country)...

I would hope you get her to puppy class asap, so she can be socialized (dont worry even one socialized to accept other dogs in class and on the street, if you walk her will defend her territory to the death and not allow strange dogs in)... and learn basic training... Mine is about 90 lbs now and I am so glad he knows basic obedience and we still try to leash walk him a few times a week so he can keep in practice...


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

I kinda live about 45 minutes away from anywhere that has puppy classes so I'll be doing her training myself. But no worries. I have a lot of experience. I've trained all of my own dogs. She gets walked every evening and I socialize her with every dog and person we meet. Her and i make reguar trips to the post office, corner store, and the park. Its a small little town and a couple of us get together to walk our dogs. Large and small breeds together. She's been started young too since I got her so young. At 7.5 weeks she's walking pretty good on a leash, almost completely house broke, and does sit, give paw, and lay. She also has been trained to sit and look at me before she gets her food. Once she sit and looks at me, I tell her good girl and point to her dish, and she goes and eats. She is incredibly smart and catches on to everything so fast. My only concern is her nipping habit. But for 7.5 weeks she's doing amazing!


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Vet appointment today at 1:30pm to have the pup looked at. Might not be getting her shots today now though. Noticed a small abscess type thing on her lower tummy last night. But if its just a little pimple/fester type thing and doesn't need to be treated with antibiotics she will be getting her shots and deworming today. Wish us luck!


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

gypsyrose said:


> Vet appointment today at 1:30pm to have the pup looked at. Might not be getting her shots today now though. Noticed a small abscess type thing on her lower tummy last night. But if its just a little pimple/fester type thing and doesn't need to be treated with antibiotics she will be getting her shots and deworming today. Wish us luck!


Definitely! good luck, better to catch the little things whilst they are little....


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

BernerMax said:


> Definitely! good luck, better to catch the little things whilst they are little....


Thanks! And Exactly!!! My dog Bronx (RIP) use to get them all the time as a pup. The vet showed me how to treat them so I didn't have to keep coming in. However, I want to make sure that's what it is before I do anything. Vet said its probably nothing but better to be safe than sorry. She had to go in today for her shots anyway. Let's just hope it's nothing and she still can.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

UPDATE: Gypsy DID have a small abscess on her tummy. However, it was small enough that the vet just put her on antibiotics for 14 days and was okay with her getting her shots today as well. Also my scales have been weighing her a bit heavy. She's actually about 18.5lbs.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

gypsyrose said:


> UPDATE: Gypsy DID have a small abscess on her tummy. However, it was small enough that the vet just put her on antibiotics for 14 days and was okay with her getting her shots today as well. Also my scales have been weighing her a bit heavy. She's actually about 18.5lbs.


 ok thats a bit odd place for an abcess, with your dog that got them all the time, do you have/had sheep/ goats there is a bacteria that is really difficult to get rid off called CL... we had a scare with our goats recently, it is no joke and contagious to people .... too....


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

No he was never around livestock in his entire life. The vet said it was rather “normal" for little ones to pop up sometimes. And for some reason they stopped as soon as he was neutered. And Gypsy has only ever been around cattle and horses. But I'm glad you told me about that because my in laws are thinking about getting sheep and goats eventually.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

gypsyrose said:


> No he was never around livestock in his entire life. The vet said it was rather “normal" for little ones to pop up sometimes. And for some reason they stopped as soon as he was neutered. And Gypsy has only ever been around cattle and horses. But I'm glad you told me about that because my in laws are thinking about getting sheep and goats eventually.


Oh yes def test for CL it is zoonotic and once carried onto your property can really stick around in dirt for a while... its a pain....


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Thanks SO MUCH for the heads up on that!

As of 12am Gypsy's abscess has already started to shrink!!! Our appointment wasn't suppose to be until tomorrow but thankfully they fit us in and got her started on her meds. It turned out that it wasn't anything too serious but it could have been. Thank goodness!


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

GYPSY IS FINALLY 8 WEEKS OLD!!! 19LBS!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

So cute! Nineteen pounds at eight weeks? Wow


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Yup! She is a mix breed livestock guardian dog. Her Mom and Dad were both over 100lbs. Shes Maremma/great Pyrenees/Carpathian shepherd cross.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Nice looking pup. My LGDs are all grown up now. The puppy days did not seem to last that long. Enjoy her it will not be long and she will be an adult.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

very nice pic, she is sooo adorable keep us updated!


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Oh I am!!! She's such a joy. And so smart. She does sit, give paw, lay. She waits for my “okay" before going to her food dish. She's almost house trained. She doesn't chew anything. And that's all since she was four weeks old. She's amazing!!!


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

This is her about 5 days before she came home. She was about 9lbs then.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Took the girl to a parade and a 4H heifer show today. Trying to socialize her to as many people and other animals as much as possible. She got loves from tons if people and other dogs! She was so well behaved. She didn't mind the bagpipes, horses, or cattle... marching bands on other hand NOT SO MUCH!!!


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

TEN WEEKS and 24LBS!


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

11 weeks tomorrow and 26.4lbs!


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Gypsy Rose at 12 weeks and 30lbs!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

gypsyrose said:


> Gypsy Rose at 12 weeks and 30lbs!












This is my guy at about 12 weeks. ;-) There may be some things in common there.

Pretty, pretty girl.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Possibly. I was originally told that her Mom was Great Pyrenees x Maremma, and Dad was a Carpathian Shepherd. But having done a fair amount of research I knew that the Carpathian Shepherd part wasn't right. I confronted them and found out her Dad is purebred GSD. Either waywe love her. But she's going to be a big one.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

gypsyrose said:


> Possibly. I was originally told that her Mom was Great Pyrenees x Maremma, and Dad was a Carpathian Shepherd. But having done a fair amount of research I knew that the Carpathian Shepherd part wasn't right. I confronted them and found out her Dad is purebred GSD. Either way we love her. But she's going to be a big one.


Well, hey. I don't actually know what Thud is but given his behavior and the area our best guess is GSDXLGD of some sort. He's about 120lbs, but he's more heavy than huge. 

He's also a LOOOOT of dog, and not just (or even mostly) because he's a big guy, but mutts man. You never know exactly what you're going to get. There are more pictures here: http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/132378-thuds-picture-thread.html if you're interested. Me talking about him's all over the place.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Wow he's beautiful. If I had to guess I'd say he has roughly the same breeds as my Gypsy (though there could be some Anatolian in there). Just he has a slightly longer hair more like the pyr and Gypsy has a shorter one like the GSD. Though her puppy coat is shedding now and its coming in coarse and slightly curly. She's going to be a beauty I think. We've also fought the don't chase the cats battle. And we still are. She caught a claw to the eye lid and had blood coming from the corner of her eye but still wants to chase them. Its a slow battle but we're finally making head way.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I had to go digging, but.
Thud started with crazy puff and landed here.










But we actually had a strange stage with this:







[/IMG]










Weird as heck. I don't know what it was, I don't know where it came from, but he actually had a curly coat for a little while. It all shed back out, but it was kind of cool and I miss it - even if he is softer, now. I'll be interested to see what your girl's fur does, and she's going to be beautiful no matter what.

Anyway, yeah. There... Thud was pretty good when he was a baby. And he's pretty good now. I'm... pretending the period between about 7 months and 18 months didn't exist. Teenagers, man.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Wow he's just so handsome!!! The more I see of him when he's older the more I'm thinking there's some Anatolian in him. They're a rather large and beautiful dog. And do have a shaggy type coat too.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Gyspy @ 13 weeks and a 35lbs!!!


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

gypsyrose said:


> Gyspy @ 13 weeks and a 35lbs!!!


Beautiful girl she is really growing up (looks older than 13 weeks she is so big!)...


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Lol yea no kidding eh! She's growing like a bad weed. But I just scored a 12.5x6x6 kennel for her for $180!!! Second hand but in great shape! Going to pick it up tomorrow.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

14 weeks!


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

3,5 months old and already that huge, wow.


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## gypsyrose (May 12, 2014)

Yea she's a big girl. He mom is Maremma x Great Pyrenees and just found out her Dad is actually a purebred German Shepherd. Both were over 100lbs. Gypsy is about 38lbs now.


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