# Hills prescription diet canine j/d



## M & M (Jan 20, 2008)

My vet has encourage me to purchase this food for my Golden. She just tore her ACL and going to have surgery. Has anyone used this food before? I want to trust my vet, but this food is so expensive.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I answered this question in your other thread. Check it out.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

I havent used it myself, but I work in a clinic where we sell it and have actually heard some REALLY good feedback about it from owners.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

Every single vet's office I have ever been in, has bags of SD for sale. Why? Because it's a 'great' food and every vet has the same opinion that it's the 'best'? Doubt it. Kinda seems funny that every single vet pushes SD, doesnt it? Hmmm.... This is a huge pet peeve of mine. Huge. So many people want to do the best for their dog's and they listen to their vet's, as we should, but not when it comes to them pushing SD on us. Not only is it ridiculously priced, but if you compare the ingredients list to other quality foods, you'll see that it's crap. I'm sure some dog's have done well on it, but I'd bet they could do better on something else. Just my opinion of course. I'm no expert, but this really ruffles my feathers


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Science Diet is not the same as the prescription diets. The veterinary diets actually undergo constant testing and nation wide clinical trials.. I don't know that any other foods on the market do the same.

I don't like the list of ingredients, however for specific health issues, which is what these foods are created to address, I think that they work/help.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I posted this in the other thread, but I find it difficult to believe that this formula would have any effect on a dog's joints. It does have glucosamine in it, but it hasn't even been proven, yet, that glucosamine or chondroitin have a positive effect on canine joints, so buying it for that specific reason may in itself be a waste of significant money. 

In my personal experience with my own dog, I believe glu/chon works, when combined with MSM and vitamin C...this formula only has one of the four. Additionally, I have found the amounts in joint and senior formula kibbles to be nowhere near enough to make a difference. If you want to use glu/chon, buy a supplement.

Finally, as Covertune suggested, the food isn't all that awesome as far as foods are concerned. I mean, the first ingredient is corn. Unless it's your _pig _that needs joint help, I'd steer clear!


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

I complete agree with CoverTune in that I don't think the prescription diets (as a whole) deserve the same ridicule that science diet does. Especially when the other pet food companies that many around here are so fond of have yet to provide Rx diets of their own. But... on to the J/D

Personally, I am not a fan of J/D. As mentinoed, the glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate supplementation may not be all it's cracked up to be. On a side note, the main orthopedic surgeon at my school rarely, if ever, recommends J/D (or other joint diet from other companies) because he says that those foods often contain too many calories and most orthopedic cases would GREATLY benefit if the extra weight was kept down and is not worth the trade off. Considering the incidence of osteoarthritis in dogs with knee injuries such as this one (sometimes even with surgery) I definitely agree with him that keeping the weight off is more important than addition of a neutraceutical.

PS: Fillebelle - are you aware that just because a meat may be listed first in an ingredient list that it often is not the most prevalent ingredient in the diet? Many times closer toward the bottom...


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## LindaA (May 25, 2010)

My dog was put on Hills Prescription Diet d/d for her allergies 6 weeks ago. I tried so many things before finally agreeing to try the food trial. I'm happy I finally gave in (I am also not a SD fan), Sadie's fur has completely grown back in from where she chewed it off her legs and hind end. Her coat is so shiny and thick. I am sold. Prescription Diet is NOT the same as SD, and can only be purchased through a vet by prescription. I had sticker shock at the price too, but I will gladly pay what it costs to have the my healthy happy girl again.

I know the thread was about j/d, but had to add my 2 cents on the Prescription Diet as a whole. Oh, and I did compare other foods to the PD that Sadie is on now and I can't find any that are available in our area that only have one meat, potato and vitamins and nothing else added.


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm with Labmom on this one..I can't begin to tell you how many customers I have come into my store telling us how the vet wants them on a prescription diet only to find out many of the better quality holistic foods end up providing the same result. Once you punch in the numbers and compare nutrient levels, ingredients, etc it's easy to find foods that are comparable in benefits (low protein/lower fat/sodium levels etc) but with better ingredients. For instance, the canine/feline a/d formula for animals that are recovering from illness list the key benefits as being "highly digestible proteins/high palatability with a soft consistincy/increased level of potassium". Well the number 1 ingredient is water. So adding a bit more water to your canned food will automatically make it a soupy consistincy. The proteins are poultry liver, pork liver and chicken. Many canned foods contain this. Potassium levels are very close to alot of foods.

Their dry version of t/d oral health. It has an awful ingredient list starting with Brewers rice, corn guten meal, chicken by-product meal. The chicken by-product and Pork fat is the only meat sources in the food. They claim their "unique kibble
remove tarter build up". No kibble will do this. It goes in their mouth, back to their molars and shatters like us eating a crouton. Kibble is kibble, the shape isn't going to make a world of difference on oral care let along needing a prescription for this!
Not to say that NONE of their rx diets work..but I'm sure that there are many other non-prescritpion diets with better quality ingredients that would work as well. This is why I choose to go to a holisitc vet who does not support science diet.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Erin2854 said:


> I'm with Labmom on this one..I can't begin to tell you how many customers I have come into my store telling us how the vet wants them on a prescription diet only to find out many of the better quality holistic foods end up providing the same result. Once you punch in the numbers and compare nutrient levels, ingredients, etc it's easy to find foods that are comparable in benefits (low protein/lower fat/sodium levels etc) but with better ingredients. For instance, the canine/feline a/d formula for animals that are recovering from illness list the key benefits as being "highly digestible proteins/high palatability with a soft consistincy/increased level of potassium". Well the number 1 ingredient is water. So adding a bit more water to your canned food will automatically make it a soupy consistincy. The proteins are poultry liver, pork liver and chicken. Many canned foods contain this. Potassium levels are very close to alot of foods.
> 
> Their dry version of t/d oral health. It has an awful ingredient list starting with Brewers rice, corn guten meal, chicken by-product meal. The chicken by-product and Pork fat is the only meat sources in the food. They claim their "unique kibble
> remove tarter build up". No kibble will do this. It goes in their mouth, back to their molars and shatters like us eating a crouton. Kibble is kibble, the shape isn't going to make a world of difference on oral care let along needing a prescription for this!
> Not to say that NONE of their rx diets work..but I'm sure that there are many other non-prescritpion diets with better quality ingredients that would work as well. This is why I choose to go to a holisitc vet who does not support science diet.


What exactly makes a food holistic?


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Science diet is a life saver for dogs. Quite literally. I've seen dogs that struggled to walk, run after J/D. I don't like science diet's ingredients but if they increase a dog's quality of life then have at it. Also, Hallie got hit by two cars last year that shattered her pelvis and destroyed her ACL. She gets a Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM supplement daily. Last month she raided the pack of pill pockets so she didn't get her supplement for a week, by the end of the week she couldn't go up the stairs...we're talking a dog that jumps over couches usually. I guess it depends on the individual dog's response to the supplement. I've personally found it to be a complete lifesaver.


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

Hallie said:


> Science diet is a life saver for dogs. Quite literally. I've seen dogs that struggled to walk, run after J/D. I don't like science diet's ingredients but if they increase a dog's quality of life then have at it. Also, Hallie got hit by two cars last year that shattered her pelvis and destroyed her ACL. She gets a Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM supplement daily. Last month she raided the pack of pill pockets so she didn't get her supplement for a week, by the end of the week she couldn't go up the stairs...we're talking a dog that jumps over couches usually. I guess it depends on the individual dog's response to the supplement. I've personally found it to be a complete lifesaver.


Poor baby! Her recovery must have been so tough on the both of you. You mentioned she did great on the supplement, isn't j/d an actual food? Glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM can def work wonders. I'm confused to whether you were saying the Science diet food was a lifesaver or her glucosamine supplement? Or maybe I'm reading it wrong LOL


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

I personally would not feed it for something like an ACL surgery, now if my vet prescribed it for an UTI than yes I would use it even if I grumbled and moaned about it lol. I would ask your vet what the reasons were for prescribing it for an ACL. If the reasoning has little to do with your dogs health than I would say "Thank you, but I will stick with what he's on now." You also don't want to upset his system with a new food right before a surgery if its not going to make a difference.


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

Mr. V said:


> What exactly makes a food holistic?


Holistic pet foods are foods that focus on wholesome, quality ingredients. Quality protein sources (no by-products and are sometimes antibiotic/hormone free meats), no cheap fillers (like corn gluten meal, wheat gluten, etc) and uses whole grains (like brown rice, quinoa, barley). They also do not use chemical preservatives, artificial colors, etc. Here's a more detailed explanation and comparrison to holistic vs. cheaper foods. Hope this helps 

http://www.pet-supplies-review.com/holistic-dog-food.html


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Mr. V said:


> PS: Fillebelle - are you aware that just because a meat may be listed first in an ingredient list that it often is not the most prevalent ingredient in the diet? Many times closer toward the bottom...


Yes, I am. The meats on dog food labels are generally listed inclusive of their water content, but that liquid obviously has to be removed in order to make a dry kibble, so the meat should most likely be further down on most ingredient lists.

That doesn't change the fact that corn is the first listed ingredient in the food. Not something that is necessary for a dog to eat and, in fact, a fairly common canine allergen.



Hallie said:


> Science diet is a life saver for dogs. Quite literally. I've seen dogs that struggled to walk, run after J/D. I don't like science diet's ingredients but if they increase a dog's quality of life then have at it. Also, Hallie got hit by two cars last year that shattered her pelvis and destroyed her ACL. She gets a Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM supplement daily. Last month she raided the pack of pill pockets so she didn't get her supplement for a week, by the end of the week she couldn't go up the stairs...we're talking a dog that jumps over couches usually. I guess it depends on the individual dog's response to the supplement. I've personally found it to be a complete lifesaver.


I can't for the life of me find a source that says how much glucosamine is in the j/d, but I do know it has to be kept under a particular amount because of restrictions against selling medicated foods. I can almost guarantee you the amount of glucosamine in the kibble is nowhere near what Hallie is taking in the supplements that you're giving her. Additionally, the food doesn't have chondroitin or MSM in it, which seem to be key factors in a glucosamine supplement working.

Of course, when all is said and done, the OP could just buy a bag of the j/d and see how it works


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Erin2854 said:


> Holistic pet foods are foods that focus on wholesome, quality ingredients. Quality protein sources (no by-products and are sometimes antibiotic/hormone free meats), no cheap fillers (like corn gluten meal, wheat gluten, etc) and uses whole grains (like brown rice, quinoa, barley). They also do not use chemical preservatives, artificial colors, etc. Here's a more detailed explanation and comparrison to holistic vs. cheaper foods. Hope this helps
> 
> http://www.pet-supplies-review.com/holistic-dog-food.html


Sounds just like marketing to me since the definition of holistic doesn't really apply to the description you offered. Quality seems to be more appropriate.

I'm not trying to make a case for corn here or anything, but, that isn't exactly a cheap commodity these days. Is corn gluten much cheaper to come by because I feel like there's a lot cheaper things that one could use as a "filler" in a dog food.



FilleBelle said:


> in fact, a fairly common canine allergen.


Any quality literature to connect that statement to? I've read my fair share of studies on food allergies and intolerances and haven't found one that specifically lists corn as a top allergen. Most of the conference preceedings and studies have a list that goes something like: beef, chicken, soy, egg, wheat


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Mr. V, this discussion has been done to death and I am quite aware of other food allergens. The soy in the j/d is another reason I wouldn't choose to feed it. The fact is, we're not debating possible canine allergens, we're evaluating a particular food. I think it's a fairly lame food to begin with, but more importantly, I suspect it's completely useless as far as joint health is concerned, which clearly makes it not worth the money.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> Mr. V, this discussion has been done to death and I am quite aware of other food allergens. The soy in the j/d is another reason I wouldn't choose to feed it. The fact is, we're not debating possible canine allergens, we're evaluating a particular food. I think it's a fairly lame food to begin with, but more importantly, I suspect it's completely useless as far as joint health is concerned, which clearly makes it not worth the money.


Yes, because discussion forums always stay on topic. It was a legit question - I really wantd to know if you had any good resources or studies that now list corn as a top allergen since it is pretty important for me to always be on top of that sort of information. Nice of you to get so worked up though


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

_


Mr. V said:



Sounds just like marketing to me since the definition of holistic doesn't really apply to the description you offered. Quality seems to be more appropriate.

Click to expand...

_


Mr. V said:


> _
> I'm not trying to make a case for corn here or anything, but, that isn't exactly a cheap commodity these days. Is corn gluten much cheaper to come by because I feel like there's a lot cheaper things that one could use as a "filler" in a dog food._
> 
> Any quality literature to connect that statement to? I've read my fair share of studies on food allergies and intolerances and haven't found one that specifically lists corn as a top allergen. Most of the conference preceedings and studies have a list that goes something like: beef, chicken, soy, egg, wheat


Ok..so would it be better if I said "healthy" or "natural" ?? Holistic has many diff definitions but basically using high quality foods that will have a good effect on ones overall health and wellbeing would folllow a holistic lifestyle. If you go to a holistic vet, they focus on functional medicine in which foods are often connected to the problemswhich can be better understood by checking out my vets website (dogdoctor.us)

Yes, alot of the corn used is very cheap. Much cheaper than meat. And ALOT of corn is genetically modified. According to the USDA, as of 2009, about 60% of corn being grown in the US was genetically modified. Do a search on GMO's for more information. Corn products have very little nutritional value and are not as digestible as a high quality protein. Corn gluten is very cheap, it's just by-product after the manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried residue after the removal of the bran, germ, and starch and is mainly used just to bind food together.


No, corn is not the TOP allergen, but it is still a very common one. 9/10 customers i have that come into my store with the allergy test results for their dog have corn on the list.

If a company is filling their product with corn and corn gluten meals they are trying to save money by using these cheap ingredients rather than investing in a better quality protein. They obviously do not want to put the pets nutritional needs first and am more interested in saving a buck. We carry no food brands that use corn in our store.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Erin2854 said:


> Poor baby! Her recovery must have been so tough on the both of you. You mentioned she did great on the supplement, isn't j/d an actual food? Glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM can def work wonders. I'm confused to whether you were saying the Science diet food was a lifesaver or her glucosamine supplement? Or maybe I'm reading it wrong LOL


I never tried j/d, but yes the supplements work wonders! It was pretty tough but so much better now. j/d is a food, a therapeutic one. I personally believe I get the same effect with grain free food accompanied by supplements. Hallie's supplements add up to 1,000mg daily of MSM and Glucosamine. I don't know of any food that has that kind of levels. Hallie used to get just Glucosamine and Chondroitin but I switched the Chondroitin with MSM for awhile to see what that does. I say try supplements before the food in this case. The same thing j/d uses can be found at any walmart or petstore in a tiny pill. Also, I suggest giving a preventative hip and joint supplement early on in a dogs life.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

_Corn often gets an undeserved bad reputation. While it is not acceptable as a main source of protein in a dog food (as it is used in combination with corn gluten), as a source of carbohydrates it is no better and no worse than other grains in terms of nutritional value and digestibility. The starch part of corn is highly digestible but the whole ground product has a higher fiber content than other grains (around 7%), which results in slightly larger stools - often incorrectly interpreted as lack of digestibility. Unless an individual dog is intolerant or allergic to corn, there is no need to avoid products which include it in reasonable amounts._
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

Just another marketing gimmick in my opinion. I see how it would help, but why not feed something decent and supplement with chondroitin/glucosamine/msm instead? Its a whole lot cheaper and a whole lot healthier. 

If youre interested, costco has an awesome sale on joint supplement and salmon oil package. You dont have to be a member, and shipping is included:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11614623&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|90608|90372|48086|49626&N=4047445&Mo=26&pos=4&No=4&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=49626&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC14360-Cat48086&topnav=


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Mr. V said:


> Yes, because discussion forums always stay on topic. It was a legit question - I really wantd to know if you had any good resources or studies that now list corn as a top allergen since it is pretty important for me to always be on top of that sort of information. Nice of you to get so worked up though


I was neither upset nor did I say anything which would indicate that I was. I simply did not want to go into a topic which has been beaten to death on multiple threads when all the OP wanted was some opinions about the food. I also didn't suggest that corn was a "top allergen," I said it's "fairly common." More common than an allergy to, say, potatoes, which is another form of carbohydrates used in dog food. And yet I wouldn't want to see potatoes at the top of a list of dog food ingredients, either, because the idea of an animal with a carnivorous bias eating a food that relies heavily on plants (in the case of the j/d, Hills says it is 50% carbohydrates) is counterintuitive. 

As I previously said, there are other issues with the food. The fact that the chicken meal is from by-products disturbs me, as does the appearance of soy in several different forms. Most importantly, the fact that it is missing chondroitin and MSM and most likely has low levels of glucosamine seems to make it pointless. Why spend an exorbitant amount of money on a joint health formula that has very little chance of improving joint health and doesn't appear to be a very suitable canine diet to begin with?


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

> If a company is filling their product with corn and corn gluten meals they are trying to save money by using these cheap ingredients rather than investing in a better quality protein.


My husband works for a shipping company that transports corn gluten via rail cars to ships for export. He's worked with the stuff and seen it firsthand, and it's basically sawdust, a waste product after the 'good stuff' has been made into human food, and is generally used as a feed ingredient for poultry. It's not the same at all as (edible) whole corn -- it's used as a binding agent, not a nutrient source. When I told him it's often used in dog food, he was shocked. In my opinion, it should not be an ingredient in ANY food for a dog or cat, let alone one that is priced and advertised as 'premium'.


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## Erin2854 (Feb 23, 2011)

I completely agree Pai


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

I'd like to know how powdered cellulose and peanut hulls are justified as an appropriate ingredient in dog food.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

None of the products that have been processed before arriving at the dog food factory are going to look like good food. They are meals and powders! Corn gluten meal is high in protein, that is why it is used.
Corn gluten
http://ingredients101.com/cgm.htm
Hominy as this place doesn't have corn meal itself.
http://ingredients101.com/hominy.htm


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## MacysMom (Mar 19, 2011)

Actually it's not the glucosamine/chondroitin in J/D food that makes it work, it's the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fatty acids. As a matter of fact most vets would recommend you continue using a glucosamine supplement even if youre pet is on J/D. And yes, while you can just give your pet a fish oil supplement, it would take an excessive number of fish oil capsules each day to have the same effect as J/D food has. This website explains it pretty well http://www.acerlux.com/productsyoushouldknow/jdfood.html. I don't like Science Diet OTC foods, but the Hills prescription diets have each been made with a specific purpose, and the joint diet serves its purpose unbelievably! I have seen it change the quality of life in a number of dogs, and isn't that what matters most? Of course J/D isn't the right diet for every dog, and everyone has the right to their own opinion...but shouldn't we get the full story before completely trashing what could be (and is, in my experience) an incredible product, and source of renewed mobility for our pets?


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