# Recall/New Kibble



## Kylie- (Mar 14, 2011)

Hi all, 

Due to the recalls on certain dog food, I feel uncomfortable continuing with feeding TOTW.

I'm looking for more recommendations for my Shih Tzu? Your experiences, what will you continue to feed, etc? I would appreciate the help.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I've been feeding Solid Gold Sun Dancer... My dog does great on it and the review on Dog Food Advisor is four and a half stars. She also gets Vital Complete Meals every other day in place of 1/2 cup of the kibble, but that's not really necessary... Just a personal preference. I feel like Solid Gold doesn't get much love but it's cheap and it's got great ingredients.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I see Walmart carries this? 

I looked it up on the dogfoodadvisor and they rated the puppy food ... 

I liked the protein and fat percentages in the puppy formula.  Having Schnauzer mixes ... low fat is better than high. I may give this a try myself as a rotation food. Right now I just went from 4Health and TOTW to Blue Buffalo Fish and Sweet Potato for all my dogs.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

FYI Solid Gold is also made at Diamond.

At the moment, the only foods I'd probably consider feeding would be Acana, Fromm, Nutrisource/Pure Vita, Precise, Canine Caviar, and Lotus. Although I'm sure I'm missing a few other brands. But I mainly look for quality control, produced in-house or by a reputable company, and decent ingredients.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh boo! ....  So sad that it is made at Diamond too! Well ... forget that idea.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Oh I forgot Petcurean too! I like their Go! and Now! formulas.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm gonna continue to feed TOTW.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> I'm gonna continue to feed TOTW.


Me too. I'm not going to get all hysterical about a salmonella scare. My dogs do great on it, and none of the product I use was recalled.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I switched a long time ago bc my dogs dog really "eh" about it all of the sudden so I took that as a cue lol, now I feed natures variety (instinct) 

Also can someone tell me where they are getting all this info about which plants make which foods? I can't find anything about it :/. Also merrick is very good, their grain inclusive five star entree line got wish washy reviews from AFA (dog food advisor) but I fed them & had really good luck with them.... The most luck I had tho was with Stella & chewy's raw patties as a topper, but I'm out right now, thankfully they are still eating their food without it, NVI costs their foods with their freeze dried raw version after cooking so they say, perhaps that's why.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> Me too. I'm not going to get all hysterical about a salmonella scare. My dogs do great on it, and none of the product I use was recalled.


I'm not all hysterical over salmonella, to be honest. Although dogs CAN and obviously HAVE been getting sick from it, and so have some people, but to me... it's more about their quality control. I don't believe it's up to par personally. The only reason they recalled these was because of the FDA so yeah, it's being called "voluntarily" but it wasn't their "amazing control" or anything that caught it.

I'm not saying TOTW is a "bad" food by any means. When it comes to a nice ingredient list and a nice price, Diamond and TOTW win. With that said, I don't trust them. They are an actual Diamond brand food, meaning they aren't simply made at their facility, they are the ones producing the food at their monster clustered facility also producing lots of low-quality foods AND were a HUGE involvement in the big 2007 recall.

They've lied in the past, why would they not lie again? It's hard to forgive the melamine recall, IMO. From what I've heard, there were likely thousands of deaths, not counting the violently ill pets, but of course, it can't be confirmed because there wasn't a govt. database for such a thing. Also, I think Diamond was the only brand involved with aflaxtoxin contamination causing over 400 confirmed deaths, if not more unreported.

Obviously, Diamond was not the only company involved, but EVERY single one put $$$$ before health of our loved pets. I also don't like how they try to skirt around the issue and don't report things right away, etc. Apparently, Diamond killed a bunch of cats about 3 years ago too and NEVER even put it on the site.

I guess that's my whole thing, I don't want to support a business like Diamond. Recalls, I don't even mind so much. Hey, stuff happens, mistakes occur... but to me, it's about how it's handled and WHY there was a recall. How many animals got sick, how many died, was it because they were purposely putting in a chemical or ingredient that they KNEW was questionable, but continued to do so? Or was it really an accident? Like, back in 2007, I know they would purposely wait until a Fri. night to release some of the stuff, because they knew the news outlets wouldn't pick it up. That kind of stuff pisses me off.


NO company is going to be 100% perfect. But I definitely prefer a company who is not shipping ingredients out to co-manufacturers, producing in-house, etc. (which I know is rare). Champion doesn't make canned food because they don't have the proper facility to do it. So they are not going to go off to someone else and get them to make it. Lotus didn't like the other canneries, so they made their own. Etc. etc.

So, to me, it's just a matter of trust, finding out where the food is being made, or where it's coming from, and going with your instincts. Nobody can know anything for SURE unless you are in that factory making the food yourself. So I guess bottom line is, go with what your dog does well on, what you can afford, and what you are comfortable with, because obviously each person is different. I doubt dogs are dropping dead left and right because they're eating a Diamond food... but it's just something I don't feel comfortable with.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> I switched a long time ago bc my dogs dog really "eh" about it all of the sudden so I took that as a cue lol, now I feed natures variety (instinct)
> 
> Also can someone tell me where they are getting all this info about which plants make which foods? I can't find anything about it :/. Also merrick is very good, their grain inclusive five star entree line got wish washy reviews from AFA (dog food advisor) but I fed them & had really good luck with them.... The most luck I had tho was with Stella & chewy's raw patties as a topper, but I'm out right now, thankfully they are still eating their food without it, NVI costs their foods with their freeze dried raw version after cooking so they say, perhaps that's why.


FWIW, I don't really like Merrick either. They've also had a ton of QC issues.

Here's a few:
http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/ucm267247.htm
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm221198.htm
http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/ucm218039.htm
http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/ucm241476.htm

Also, in 2003, it was at their plant that a bunch of dogs and cats died while eating a Petcurean food (which, at the time, manufactured some foods there but immediately stopped). http://www.itchmoforums.com/news-re...t-2003-petcurean-pet-food-recall-t6037.0.html


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## Kylie- (Mar 14, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> FYI Solid Gold is also made at Diamond.
> 
> At the moment, the only foods I'd probably consider feeding would be Acana, Fromm, Nutrisource/Pure Vita, Precise, Canine Caviar, and Lotus. Although I'm sure I'm missing a few other brands. But I mainly look for quality control, produced in-house or by a reputable company, and decent ingredients.



Thanks for the replies, I've read each of them!

I too am not hysterical over the food recall, but I think trust is earned and when they've continue to break that you begin to look elsewhere for service, until it can be regained and most importantly your dogs health is first priority in times like that. 

JacksonsMom, how do you like Acana and Fromm? I've read Acana can be too rich (I have a Shih Tzu), cause issues with some dogs stools, and some to shed a good amount? Also information about the ingredients? where they're from, any "red flag" ones? etc. I know all dogs react differently, but hearing from your experience could definitely help. 

Anyone else know of any good quality dog food not related to Diamond? Thanks!!


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm feeding Blackwoods and my dogs love it.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Kylie- said:


> Thanks for the replies, I've read each of them!
> 
> I too am not hysterical over the food recall, but I think trust is earned and when they've continue to break that you begin to look elsewhere for service, until it can be regained and most importantly your dogs health is first priority in times like that.
> 
> ...


I love both Acana and Fromm - though Fromm did not work for Jackson (16lb Yorkie) - I think maybe the formulas were a bit too "busy" but he got soft poo, itchiness, and runny eyes while on it. And we tried it on 3 separate occasions with the same results so I'm sure it's the food. Others have fantastic results on it though. I love the food and WISH it worked for Jackson, as I love their company.

I like Fromm on a whole better than Champion however Acana is what we always end up back on, as he does the best on it. My good friend feeds her Yorkies (4lbs and 6.5lbs) Acana grainfree and I've been feeding Jackson that for almost his whole life, until the past few months he's been on the newer Acana Singles line (chicken & burbank potato, lamb & apple and duck & pear). We're on our 5th or 6th bag with fantastic results. His poo is always consistent (specifically on the lamb & apple - he's got the BEST poop, HA!), he never has any ear infections, or skin problems, or itchiness, or eye drainage, and his skin and coat look great (we don't supplement with anything). I love Acana!

So if you're looking for a bit less rich, the new Acana formulas would fit the bill (they're pretty simple - one grain... oats and one protein source in the duck and lamb). Also a bit lower protein (I think between 25%-27%) and a bit less fat.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I'm not saying TOTW is a "bad" food by any means. When it comes to a nice ingredient list and a nice price, Diamond and TOTW win. With that said, I don't trust them. They are an actual Diamond brand food, meaning they aren't simply made at their facility, they are the ones producing the food at their monster clustered facility also producing lots of low-quality foods AND were a HUGE involvement in the big 2007 recall.
> 
> .


TWO Diamond brands were recalled, according to the information I find. I'd hardly call that "huge"


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

I would tend to agree with those who aren't switching over this. IMHO, you would be hard-pressed to find a dog food company that has never or will never have any kind of problem. That's just a fact. Disease is everywhere in the supply chain, for people foods too. Do you ever eat spinach or tomatoes? Because those are people foods that have had notorious foodborne illness related problems too. 

That said, we switched Biscuit from TOTW to Acana grain-free over the winter for unrelated reasons (suspected chicken sensitivity) and we like it very much. I would recommend it to anyone, even though I think the touchy-feely hype about Champion is a bunch of nonsense.


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

Pawzk9 said:


> TWO Diamond brands were recalled, according to the information I find. I'd hardly call that "huge"


Umm TOTW,Chicken Soup,Natural Balance,Apex and I am thinking there is more that was listed but it was more than just 2.


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## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

I switched from Taste of the Wild to Earthborn ----- Amazon.com has a big variety + free shipping

http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com


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## brandiw (Jan 20, 2010)

momof3 said:


> Umm TOTW,Chicken Soup,Natural Balance,Apex and I am thinking there is more that was listed but it was more than just 2.


Definitely more than 2 - 15 different brands of food made at the Diamond plant have been recalled. Solid Gold, Kirkland, Wellness, Natural Balance, Chicken Soup, Taste of the Wild, Canidae, Country Value, Diamond, Diamond Naturals, Premium Edge, Professional, 4Health, Apex, Kaytee Forti-Diet (hamster and rat food). I know at least four of those brands are owned by Diamond (Chicken Soup, TOTW, Diamond, and Diamond Naturals).


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Pawzk9 was referring to the 2007 melamine recalls, which only involved a couple of Diamond brands: certain types of Chicken Soup, Diamond Lamb & Rice, as well as Nutra Nuggets and Natural Balance (not technically Diamond brands).


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I am switching Crystal to Nature's Variety Instinct on the recommendation of some knowledgeable friends and the Global Pet Foods employee who assisted me. It's got a similar protein level to TotW and I like that it's got tapioca as its starch instead of potatoes... and that it has single-protein formulas. I hope she does well on it! My only concern is that it has more calories per cup than TotW, so I have to feed Crystal less, and she eats such a small amount already.

I'm switching not because I'm terrified of my dog dying of salmonella or anything (I'd be more likely to have problems due to handling the food), but because after two recalls in six years, I'm losing confidence in Diamond. Next time it could be worse, you know?

(Casper is on Acana -- I think Champion Petfoods is a great company and he does very well on the food.)


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

momof3 said:


> Umm TOTW,Chicken Soup,Natural Balance,Apex and I am thinking there is more that was listed but it was more than just 2.


I don't think Taste of the Wild was even MADE in 2007


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## kathylcsw (Jul 4, 2011)

My mom's dog is going from 4Health to Hi-Tek. It comes form a small family owned company in Georgia and looks pretty decent. It is also reasonably priced. Another option is Healthwise which is also in the same price range as the 4Health. Earthborn Holistic also has some good food at good prices.

@Pawzk9 I think they are referring to the current recall which is way more than 2 brands with more brands being added daily. That is what concerns me. Why have they held off just including everything made in that plant over that time period? They just keep recalling a few here and there allowing the others to keep being handled by people and fed to their pets. I just don't trust them to do the right thing if it impacts the bottom line.


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

Kylie- said:


> Thanks for the replies, I've read each of them!
> 
> I too am not hysterical over the food recall, but I think trust is earned and when they've continue to break that you begin to look elsewhere for service, until it can be regained and most importantly your dogs health is first priority in times like that.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to add, that I love Fromm. We switched to it about a year and a half ago. For some reason after we moved the dogs couldn't eat TOTW without having explosive diarrhea (both dogs). So we found Fromm and haven't looked back. All four dogs do awesome on it and they love the food.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

The original recall in 2007 http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/petfoodrecall/#Dog
The melamine contamination was causing renal failure in dogs and cats. If you suspect your dog has been exposed to the recalled foods having a diarrhea panel done will help your vet pinpoint what meds are needed to resolve the GI upset. Here is the current list of recalls http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/safetyhealth/recallswithdrawals/default.htm
My dogs are on NB LI venison and sweet potato. This is what brought the salmonella problem to light: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/salmonella_in_dog_food_sickens.html


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

kathylcsw said:


> My mom's dog is going from 4Health to Hi-Tek. It comes form a small family owned company in Georgia and looks pretty decent. It is also reasonably priced. Another option is Healthwise which is also in the same price range as the 4Health. Earthborn Holistic also has some good food at good prices.
> 
> *@Pawzk9 I think they are referring to the current recall which is way more than 2 brands with more brands being added daily. That is what concerns me. Why have they held off just including everything made in that plant over that time period? They just keep recalling a few here and there allowing the others to keep being handled by people and fed to their pets. I just don't trust them to do the right thing if it impacts the bottom line.*




That is exactly what I was walking about. And in 2007 the situation was bad enough dogs died and that too was more than 2 types.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

kathylcsw said:


> @Pawzk9 I think they are referring to the current recall which is way more than 2 brands with more brands being added daily. .


Yes. I don't think they read that we were actually - at that point - talking about the 2007 recall for China sourced ingredients containing melamine. Here is that list (note, it contails Blue Buffalo) http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/petfoodrecall/#Dog

This list is for the 2007 recall before anyone panics and starts pitching food in the trash. Actually, several brands in the current recall have not tested positive for salmonella, but they've recalled just to be safe. By the way, I was in an upscale local pet supply yesterday, and was amazed by how many of their treats were made in China. They said they wanted to get rid of them, but people just weren't willing to pay the extra for US made products.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> I just wanted to add, that I love Fromm. We switched to it about a year and a half ago. For some reason after we moved the dogs couldn't eat TOTW without having explosive diarrhea (both dogs). So we found Fromm and haven't looked back. All four dogs do awesome on it and they love the food.


My dogs looked like holy hell on Fromms - dry coats, itchy, stinky, etc. They improved drastically in a short period of time when I switched to TOTW Diff'rnt stroks for Diff'rnt critters I guess. I have a wider range of choices now that my epileptic dog who couldn't do rosemary is gone. But I will still stick with what works for my dogs instead of jumping around trying to find something else that works as well.


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

Thats the best thing to do. Use what works for your dog,and your family. What works for some may not work at all for you. And you're right about people not wanting to pay for expensive foods or treats. I have very good friends that just don't understand why I would pay more than $16-$20 for a 50# bag of food and then when I show them the difference of their cocker spaniel who poops piles bigger than my lab and I show them that my dogs skin is good,ears aren't all red and painful and they are spending money hand over fist for pills and shots,some get the big picture while others say its still cheaper???? Lots of people in this area that I have met just don't see the "need" for spending the money. And if the dog gets a treat its either table scraps or chicken bones.


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