# Why Raw???



## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

Why does this Raw Food feeding seem so important to everyone....I really can't warm up to it.....

Is it that good for your dog??? .....I see so much of it posted on this forum


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Many people DO think it's "that" good.. I have never tried it, but I can understand why people like it. There are a lot of benefits. You know exactly what your dog is ingesting, it keeps the teeth/coat looking good, and is notorious for firming up poop.. and of course I'm sure there are health benefits that many raw feeders argue you don't get with kibble. I would like to try raw eventually, but I know that right now it is not ideal for me.

It's not for everyone. It can be inconvenient for a number of reasons. If your dog is doing well on kibble, leave him/her on kibble. If you listened to everything said on this forum (or ANY forum), you'd be totally confused about dog ownership and not have any say as to what to do with your dog!


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

People have various reasons for feeding raw...ranging from the belief that is more healthy for your pet than the various processed dry and wet foods to particular health reasons to just because they want to.

Personally I feed raw for two reasons: first, because one of my dogs has allergies and virtually no kibble I tried worked for her for very long, if at all. Secondly, because I personally know people who have lost dogs to pet food recall issues, and I feel better having direct control over what is going into my dogs, having done sufficient research into the diet to inspire confidence that I can meet their nutritional needs.

Also, when I switched I was about two weeks away from picking up a puppy whose breeder preferred a raw diet for her pups, so I was going to switch my two existing dogs so all three would be on the same diet.

While I am happy with the diet my dogs get, and happy with the results of that diet, I would not push it on anyone else. I'm a big believer in doing what works for you and your dog.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Because many guardians want to do what's best for their dog, and what better way to do that than by controlling the ingredients in the dog's diet. There is also a growing resentment over veterinary practices...the one person you should be able to take nutritional advise from may not be educated in unconventional diets.


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## heidiann (Feb 3, 2008)

We have a dog with health issues (epilepsy) and I like to have control over his food and it helps to know exactly what he's eating since certain foods and additives/herbs can trigger a seizure.

If it weren't for that, I think we'd be feeding a high end kibble, although, now that I know more about dog food I may have made the switch to raw anyway.


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

Ilya's weight went down to 35 lbs and he would hardly eat anything for a month. He was being treated for heartworms at the time and he felt lousy. The only thing I could get him to eat was raw chicken or beef. Later, it didn't seem like he was digesting his kibbles either and he was slow to gain weight.... soooo raw seemed ideal. I think we finally have his stomach back on track and he is now mostly on kibble with raw supplements.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

My older dog developed a serious health problem with important diet changes so I started cooking for her. Feeding raw to Max developed from that. Comparing what I buy for him raw to premium kibble prices on the net cost is about the same, I was very surprised. I like knowing what is going in, no surprise formula changes, recalls ought to be better publilized, meat from the market has got to be better quality than even the very best kibble, wet food is better than dry and he is doing very well on raw. He did fine on kibble but even better on raw.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

i am another person with a dog that couldn't tolerate kibble. i tried many different kinds of kibble, from evo to canidae to eagle pack holistic select. iorek always had soft stools - not good with a sammy. anyway, we finally made the switch to raw and we have not looked back. now the only time he has soft stool is if i don't give him enough bone. 

while i do sometimes miss the convenience of kibble, i think the positives of raw, for us, far out weighs the inconveniences.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Since I've always owned multiple large (GSD's) dogs I always do what I can to keep the vet bills minimal. I've noticed with my dogs on raw they have fewer health issues and I don't have to worry about cleaning their teeth. Then there is the extra added bonus of having less poop to scoop. With large dogs that is very nice bonus too. lol 

Jihad
and the pound puppy crew.


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## Skyegirl (Feb 5, 2009)

I have always wondered how the people who feed raw food diets justify using raw homemade diets instead of cooked homemade diets, while the USDA has confirmed through studies that there is no nutritional advantage to feeding the meat raw as oppose to cooked ( both are as digestible and have the same nutritional value). Therefore why not feed a cooked balanced homemade diet instead which would provide the same health advantages but would greatly reduce the risks of Salmonelle, campylobacter, E.coli and Clostridium infections in both dogs and humans?

I have always wondered how the people who feed raw food diets justify using raw homemade diets instead of cooked homemade diets, while the USDA has confirmed through studies that there is no nutritional advantage to feeding the meat raw as oppose to cooked ( both are as digestible and have the same nutritional value). Therefore why not feed a cooked balanced homemade diet instead which would provide the same health advantages but would greatly reduce the risks of Salmonelle, campylobacter, E.coli and Clostridium infections in both dogs and humans?


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Skyegirl said:


> I have always wondered how the people who feed raw food diets justify using raw homemade diets instead of cooked homemade diets, while the USDA has confirmed through studies that there is no nutritional advantage to feeding the meat raw as oppose to cooked ( both are as digestible and have the same nutritional value). Therefore why not feed a cooked balanced homemade diet instead which would provide the same health advantages but would greatly reduce the risks of Salmonelle, campylobacter, E.coli and Clostridium infections in both dogs and humans?
> 
> I have always wondered how the people who feed raw food diets justify using raw homemade diets instead of cooked homemade diets, while the USDA has confirmed through studies that there is no nutritional advantage to feeding the meat raw as oppose to cooked ( both are as digestible and have the same nutritional value). Therefore why not feed a cooked balanced homemade diet instead which would provide the same health advantages but would greatly reduce the risks of Salmonelle, campylobacter, E.coli and Clostridium infections in both dogs and humans?


Heh. I'd like to see those studies.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Skyegirl said:


> Therefore why not feed a cooked balanced homemade diet instead which would provide the same health advantages but would greatly reduce the risks of Salmonelle, campylobacter, E.coli and Clostridium infections in both dogs and humans?


Why? Because as real as the risk is, it's very small. If you follow the raw feeding circle they tend to minimize that risk to zero based solely on anecdotes. But surely it isn't zero. It's more like no harm, no foul...until your dog dies.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Skyegirl said:


> I have always wondered how the people who feed raw food diets justify using raw homemade diets instead of cooked homemade diets, while the USDA has confirmed through studies that there is no nutritional advantage to feeding the meat raw as oppose to cooked ( both are as digestible and have the same nutritional value). Therefore why not feed a cooked balanced homemade diet instead which would provide the same health advantages but would greatly reduce the risks of Salmonelle, campylobacter, E.coli and Clostridium infections in both dogs and humans?
> 
> 
> > Raw vs. cooked...same reason that humans live longer on a vegan raw diet than a cooked diet. You lose precious vitamins and enzymes when you cook any food.
> ...


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Because many guardians want to do what's best for their dog, and what better way to do that than by controlling the ingredients in the dog's diet. There is also a growing resentment over veterinary practices...the one person you should be able to take nutritional advise from may not be educated in unconventional diets.


Guardian? I always thought I was the owner. ;-) Last time I looked, I owned my dogs. My name is on the papers, I call the shots and decide what do with 'em. 

I fed raw because, IMO, I feel it's the best and most natural way to feed. My dogs did FANTASTIC on it, and once I start making more $$$, I'll put them back on RAW.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

txcollies said:


> Guardian? I always thought I was the owner. ;-) Last time I looked, I owned my dogs. My name is on the papers, I call the shots and decide what do with 'em.


I don't really care what title you choose. If it suits you, fine. If you're proud of it, fine. But don't bother trying to persuade my choice of words, and I won't bother with yours.


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## Skyegirl (Feb 5, 2009)

Hello,
I won't try to argue the cooked vs raw case anymore but I just wanted to let you know that Salmonella is not naturally present in the digestive tract of any animals. When Salmonella is present in the gut this is an *abnormal* infection, while most of these infected animals do not show clinical signs of the disease they still excrete the parasite and therefore can contaminate other dogs or humans. Some dogs however do get seriously infected with Salmonella and can become severly ill.

Also most bacteria and parasites are not killed by freezing. Thus freezing does not remove the risk of parasites or bacteria, however cooking does.

In reality however the basic problem with raw homemade diets or cooked homemade diets is usually the fact that they are not nutritionally balanced ( no supplements added, for example). 
The risk for human bacterial contamination from dogs that eat raw meat however is real and I hope that if you feed raw meat you make sure to be very careful around kids or immunosupressed people, since these people can be severely affected.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Skyegirl said:


> Hello,
> I won't try to argue the cooked vs raw case anymore but I just wanted to let you know that Salmonella is not naturally present in the digestive tract of any animals. When Salmonella is present in the gut this is an *abnormal* infection, while most of these infected animals do not show clinical signs of the disease they still excrete the parasite and therefore can contaminate other dogs or humans. Some dogs however do get seriously infected with Salmonella and can become severly ill.
> 
> Also most bacteria and parasites are not killed by freezing. Thus freezing does not remove the risk of parasites or bacteria, however cooking does.
> ...


Um it's called doing your research and using common sense. And as far as contamination being real - lets not forget this is an animal that uses the same tongue to lick it's butt as it does your face. Based on your logic, you might want to keep dogs away from children and sick people entirely.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Skyegirl said:


> I...n reality however the basic problem with raw homemade diets or cooked homemade diets is usually the fact that they are not nutritionally balanced ( no supplements added, for example).
> The risk for human bacterial contamination from dogs that eat raw meat however is real and I hope that if you feed raw meat you make sure to be very careful around kids or immunosupressed people, since these people can be severely affected.


I'm a multiple dog owner and started feeding raw in the early/mid '90s. I'm also an "immunosupressed" person. I have Lupus. So far all my dogs have never had any major health problems and neither have I. 
We love our raw! 

Jihad
and the pound puppy crew.


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## HersheyPup (May 22, 2008)

I don't feed a completely raw diet, but I do supplement with raw. I have noticed that when I cook the meat first my dog gets gas and loose stool. If I give it to her raw she has normal stool. Is this a coincidence? I don't know..


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Skyegirl said:


> Hello,
> I won't try to argue the cooked vs raw case anymore but I just wanted to let you know that Salmonella is not naturally present in the digestive tract of any animals. When Salmonella is present in the gut this is an *abnormal* infection, while most of these infected animals do not show clinical signs of the disease they still excrete the parasite and therefore can contaminate other dogs or humans. Some dogs however do get seriously infected with Salmonella and can become severly ill.
> 
> Also most bacteria and parasites are not killed by freezing. Thus freezing does not remove the risk of parasites or bacteria, however cooking does.
> ...


Hmmmmm.................. have you researched what is in that commercial kibble, you might want to before you you go throwing stones at people who feed raw. When you compare raw to commercial kibble you will find that although there are risks involved with raw, the benefits are much greater than the risks. There are also risks with riding your bike or going for a brisk walk, does that mean you shouldn't do it? If the benefit out ways the risk then it is worth taking the chance!! Wouldn't you agree???


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Angie's Bella said:


> Hmmmmm.................. have you researched what is in that commercial kibble, you might want to before you you go throwing stones at people who feed raw. When you compare raw to commercial kibble you will find that although there are risks involved with raw, there are also risks with riding your bike or going for a brisk walk, does that mean you shouldn't do it? If the benefit out ways the risk then it is worth taking the chance!!


I don't see where Skyegirl advised kibble as an appropriate diet. I don't see where Skyegirl advised against home prepared diets. It is a fact that there are no significant, documented benefits to feeding raw meat over cooked meat. There is a benefit to cooking meat over feeding raw, however...namely, heat kills pathogens that may be present in the meat. There's no reason to assume this risk, even as small as it may be.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> There's no reason to assume this risk, even as small as it may be.


Which risk, feeding raw?

I was only trying to point out that there were risks involved in everything. If it came across ugly, I am very sorry, that was not my intent. 

I feed raw and, just like everyone else who is trying to do what is best for their dog (whatever that may be), I feel like that is the best choice for my dog. Are there some risks involved? I am sure there are, but many people have done it for many years without any problems, just as some people have fed other things, that I see as having a greater risk, without having any problems. After doing A LOT of research, raw is the best choice for _my_ dog. Everyone else can feed whatever makes them happy, but as for me and my house, we will feed raw. 

Again, sorry if I came across ugly!


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Angie's Bella said:


> Which risk, feeding raw?


Pathogens in raw meat, yes. 



> Again, sorry if I came across ugly!


No worries.


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## DJsMom (Jun 6, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> It is a fact that there are no significant, documented benefits to feeding raw meat over cooked meat. There is a benefit to cooking meat over feeding raw, however...namely, heat kills pathogens that may be present in the meat. There's no reason to assume this risk, even as small as it may be.


But isn't one losing some, if not a LOT, of the nutritional value by cooking the food, even slightly?


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

DJsMom said:


> But isn't one losing some, if not a LOT, of the nutritional value by cooking the food, even slightly?


Virtually zero if the meat is cooked properly, and if overcooked, the nutritional difference is marginal at best. Now if you burn the meat into a clump of coal, yes.

The majority of pathogens found in/on raw meat is from packaging and processing. That's why ground meat is not advised over whole meat, and why vets who do advise on home diets recommend searing the surface of any meat fed to the dog.


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## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

WOW!!!..........I think I'm sorry I asked!


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Virtually zero if the meat is cooked properly, and if overcooked, the nutritional difference is marginal at best. Now if you burn the meat into a clump of coal, yes.
> 
> The majority of pathogens found in/on raw meat is from packaging and processing. That's why ground meat is not advised over whole meat, and why vets who do advise on home diets recommend searing the surface of any meat fed to the dog.


But if you cook it, don't you have to remove the bone, or it that only if you cook it all the way? I guess what I am asking, if you just sear it can you leave the bone in with out the worry of the bone becoming a chocking issue?


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Donna5503 said:


> WOW!!!..........I think I'm sorry I asked!


Why are you sorry? This is a forum - a place for discussion. There is always going to be folks on both side of the fence of the raw feeding issue. If you're interested, then do your own research and find your point of view based on your findings - not opinions.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Angie's Bella said:


> But if you cook it, don't you have to remove the bone, or it that only if you cook it all the way? I guess what I am asking, if you just sear it can you leave the bone in with out the worry of the bone becoming a chocking issue?


Absolutely, you do not want to cook bones. My vet advises removing the bone and searing the meat, and feeding the bone raw, if that is your preference. Raw bones are not a necessary ingredient in any diet, only the nutrients that may be reaped from it. These nutrients can be had in other forms if those are preferred. 

Splintering of a cooked bone is likely more of a risk than the pathogens found on the bone; since the majority of pathogens are on the surface of the meat anyway, and not on the bone, searing the meat minimizes that risk.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Absolutely, you do not want to cook bones. My vet advises removing the bone and searing the meat. Splintering of a cooked bone is likely more of a risk than the pathogens found on the bone; since the majority of pathogens are on the surface of the meat and not on the bone, searing the meat minimizes that risk.


So what do you do for calcium, feed a supplement? I am just curious because Bella likes raw meet, but she LOVES cooked meat.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Angie's Bella said:


> So what do you do for calcium, feed a supplement? I am just curious because Bella likes raw meet, but she LOVES cooked meat.


My preference is to supplement. Bones are considered an activity in our home, not as a staple in Elsa's diet.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> My preference is to supplement. Bones are considered an activity in our home, not as a staple in Elsa's diet.


What supplement do you use?

I am sorry for all the questions, but I am always learning!!


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Angie's Bella said:


> What supplement do you use?


I use BalanceIT as advised by my vet, for its simplicity in use.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Curbside Prophet said:


> I use BalanceIT as advised by my vet, for its simplicity in use.


Interesting. Do you have to use it with their recipes?

EDIT: Found my answer...


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

BoxMeIn21 said:


> Interesting. Do you have to use it with their recipes?


No, I use the supplement independent of their other services. Elsa's recipe was formulated by our vet, but it's likely not much different than those advised on BalanceIt's website. IDK. Elsa would get Comedone Syndrome pretty bad on any kibble we tried, and her vet's recommended diet has completely alleviated it. Pays to have an awesome vet.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Pays to have an awesome vet.


Amen to that.


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## Jacafamala (Apr 6, 2009)

My vet says don't feed a raw diet. She says that because dogs are domesticated animals, they need the grain in their diet. Plus, it's easier to provide balanced nutrition using a good brand of dog food. *Shrug*


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Jacafamala said:


> My vet says don't feed a raw diet. She says that because dogs are domesticated animals, they need the grain in their diet. Plus, it's easier to provide balanced nutrition. *Shrug*


Dogs don't have ingredient requirements...they have nutrient requirements. Domestication doesn't change that fact.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Dogs don't have ingredient requirements...they have nutrient requirements. Domestication doesn't change that fact.


I agree!! My vet recommended Science Diet , yuck!!!


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## Jacafamala (Apr 6, 2009)

Angie's Bella said:


> I agree!! My vet recommended Science Diet , yuck!!!


What's thew matter with Science Diet?




> Curbside Prophet: Dogs don't have ingredient requirements...they have nutrient requirements. Domestication doesn't change that fact.


The vet says they need the grain. I don't see how you can get the same nutrients found in grains from raw meats. That's two completely different food groups.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Jacafamala said:


> The vet says they need the grain. I don't see how you can get the same nutrients found in grains from raw meats. That's two completely different food groups.


Raw meats don't provide just a "meat" nutrient. The nutrients meat can provide are as numerous as the number of meat sources a dog can enjoy. Nevertheless, dogs don't need any one ingredient...meat or grain. If all the nutrients can be had from marshmallows, marshmallows would be an appropriate diet for dogs. I do not recommend feeding marshmallows to your dog. 

A raw meat diet that is constructed appropriately can provide all the nutrients a dog needs without grains. There's no harm in feeding some grains to some dogs, and some dogs like my own, benefit from the nutrients and fiber in grains, this does not mean grains are a necessary ingredient in a dog's diet. Your vet would have made a better statement had he or she stated the nutrients that can be had from grain x.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Jacafamala said:


> What's thew matter with Science Diet?
> 
> 
> 
> The vet says they need the grain. I don't see how you can get the same nutrients found in grains from raw meats. That's two completely different food groups.


Science diet is full of by-products and other yucky stuff! Here is an informational site that explains what is in dog food and what that stuff is. This site is not a pro-raw or pro-anything, just informational. 

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359

As far as grain, do your research! I am no expert, but I haven't read anything that says that dogs need to eat grain.


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## Jacafamala (Apr 6, 2009)

Well, if your dogs are doing well on the raw meat diet, then I won't argue. 

The vet told me she has a friend with a dog on raw meat only and her friend's dog is all skin and bones. So go figure.

BTW, my vet sent me home today with a bag of Science Diet puppy kibble. That's why I asked.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Jacafamala said:


> The vet told me she has a friend with a dog on raw meat only and her friend's dog is all skin and bones. So go figure.
> 
> BTW, my vet sent me home today with a bag of Science Diet puppy kibble. That's why I asked.


Well, raw meat is not a complete diet in itself. You can't just throw some raw hamburger to a dog and expect it to do well. There's a lot more to it then that. 

A lot of vets don't get much nutrition training and they don't really know much about the subject. Hill's pays for most of the nutrition training they do get, so they're basically trained in vet school to recommend Science Diet. IMO, Science Diet isn't truly awful, but you could get a lot better food for the price they charge ($$$!).


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Jacafamala said:


> Well, if your dogs are doing well on the raw meat diet, then I won't argue.
> 
> The vet told me she has a friend with a dog on raw meat only and her friend's dog is all skin and bones. So go figure.
> 
> BTW, my vet sent me home today with a bag of Science Diet puppy kibble. That's why I asked.


Bella looks great!!! I actually started her on Science Diet when she was a puppy and she was so thin and kept having tummy issues. So, one day I was in the pet store, to buy more Science Diet, and someone asked why I fed my dog that "junk". I was taken back by the comment because as a dog owner who just adored my sweet little poodle, I was trying to do what I thought was a good thing by feeding her Science Diet, I mean, the vet did recommend it. So, that was when I started researching what was in commercial dog food and OMW was I in for a shock!!

For a while I cooked for Bella and added all kinds of stuff like veggies and brown rice, ect. and then I came here. There are so many people on here who have such great stories on how well their dogs have done on raw, so I tried it. Here I am 4 months later and couldn't be more pleased with my decision to switch!!


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## andreangil (Apr 4, 2009)

I plan on feeding my dog raw because I believe food in its natural state is better than food that has been processed. I don't eat processed food, everything I make is fresh (or frozen) and made from ingredients I have at home. We rarely buy convenience foods. I want to do the same thing for my dog. Plus, I really hate the smell of dog food! Gross!


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

I like the benefits it has for th my dog's teeth, especially; they are smaller breed dogs, and as most people know, small dogs, do not, as a general rule, have 'great' teeth, so feeding RAW even as a supplementation is a great thing. They love it too


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> I use BalanceIT as advised by my vet, for its simplicity in use.


Curbside, I bought BalanceIt, but can't figure out the dosage. They never sent me the recipes.

Do you know how much I'd feed a 4 lb. and 6 lb. dog?


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

kelliope said:


> Curbside, I bought BalanceIt, but can't figure out the dosage. They never sent me the recipes.
> 
> Do you know how much I'd feed a 4 lb. and 6 lb. dog?


Did you order a recipe from BalanceIt? Or just the supplement? 

I don't know how much a 4-6 lb dog would need. The dosage is dependent on what recipe you're using and any other specifics BalanceIt would need to know about your dog. 

I know for my 20 lb dog and her diet, Elsa's dosage is 4 black scoops per day.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

I ordered the supplement AND the recipes. I never got around to calling the company.


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## Charlee26 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have a question: would you feed your own child kibbles? In all honesty, no matter how much I pay for dry food (I buy wellness super mix 5), I feel terrible feeding it to my dog. 

No animal on the face of the planet should not have the pleasures of eating truly delicious foods. Kibbles are not delicious. They smell bad, and their looks are equally as bad. With a raw diet, you know your animal is loving every second of it. That's why, from time to time, I'll feed my little guy some steak, eggs, carrots, broccoli, apple, etc.

You also know what your dog is eating. Kibbles, as healthy as some may say they can be for the more expensive brands, just don't seem like a complete diet to me. I can't say I would meet my nutritional needs from kibbles if they made it for humans. 

Also, I think the concept of domestication is silly. A dog is a dog. My girlfriend's Jack Russel/Pug killed a squirrel and ate it. How domestic is that? Animals do not lose their hunting abilities because they're suddenly house pets. 

At the end of the day, do coyotes have kibbles to eat everyday? Evolution has made these animals raw food eaters. No one cooks their food for them outside of the house. If you were to leave your beloved pets out in the wild, I'm sure they would love eating organs, raw meat, vegetables, and fruits available to them.

I've also seen many issues raised with vets because their education is generally lacking in the diet of dog food, or so I've heard. In my opinion, there is too much emphasis on grains. Dogs did not evolve with grains. Neither did humans, and I'm shocked so many of us indulge in copious amounts of refined carbohydrates. I'm not saying that dogs shouldn't have grains. There are specific nutrients that aren't available to the creatures in the wild. 

I'm sure many would disagree with my points, and more than likely your points are valid. I, on the other hand, believe it being completely raw. If I was not a student, my puppy would get a raw diet. Until I can actually afford a raw diet for him, I supplement him with vegetables and fruits which are safe, and healthy, for dogs. Since eggs are so cheap, I feed them to him once in a while because of their great nutritional value.

In the end, it's about the moolah. A lot of us cannot afford feeding our dogs the optimal diet because they may be too large. I have the benefits of having a petite guy, and it would be much cheaper for me to feed him. Especially in a recession, I'm sure it would be hard to feed a dog raw food when some of us can't even afford luxurious foods for ourselves.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

seems to me last time I looked they were talking about dogs, not kids.

They can't and shouldn't be compared in the least. And I don't know why you feel bad feeding your dog kibble, you should be thankful that the dog is being fed period. I guess you don't have money troubles.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

well, imo, dogs can be compared to children in the fact that they are in your care, you provide everything that they need: nutrition, medical care, love. they cannot get the things they require on their own.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Yea, but you are going to work a whole lot harder at getting the quality food that kid (during these times) than you would, or should, for a dog. I won't sit down and cry just because I can't put them back on raw. 

I did feed raw for awhile, I liked, the dogs liked it. But now due to a layoff, they back and on kibble, and still loving their food. They adore what they are being fed. End result is they are still getting fed, and still doing well and still enjoying their food. I don't see any sign of unhappiness or mistreatment, and I sure ain't going to feed the dogs better than myself in times like these when I walk a tight budget.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

well, maybe it is because i don't have kids or maybe it is just that i feel that whatever you care for should have the best that you can afford. i am not rich, but i do feed my pets the best that i can, even though it costs way more than i ever expected to have to pay to feed them. if i couldn't afford to feed the way i do now, i would find other areas to cut back on and try to find the money for the animals. it is the same if i did have kids, my kids would eat the fresh fruits and veggies and i would eat kraft dinner if i had to. if it came down to it and i had to go back to kibble (it wouldn't be a good scene with the mushy poops) i would do it, but go back to raw the second i could.


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## Charlee26 (Apr 11, 2009)

Some people choose to never have children as they treat their dogs as their own. To each their own, though. Also, I feel terrible because I can only imagine my life with shoddy food. If I had to eat that smelly crap everyday, it would be sad. I'm just saying, if someone can actually afford it, I don't see why not. Maybe it's because I love my puppy that much that I feel bad for giving him crappy stuff? I have a very solid attachment to my dog. I would obviously treat my own child better because I would go out of my way to make sure he/she would receive excellent food. My point is that if you have purchased a puppy, you've made a commitment to take care of it to the extreme. Some people take advantage of having a dog because they generally show unconditional love, or at least in my cases. 

Anyways, I don't feed my dog raw, and I wouldn't say everyone should. I think it's optimal and more humane, but that's pretty much it.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I dunno....my dogs get all excited and dance around EVERY time i feed them, whether it's kibble or raw (or dark-meat (I only like the white meat so they get the rest) rotisserie chicken, fresh from the store and custom-picked off the bone by yours truly  ). Personally I wouldn't want to eat kibble, but they seem perfectly happy with it.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I don't find that raw costs any more than a quality kibble. Up until this year I was able to do it for around $0.75 / pound of food. Now it is more like $1.00 per pound. But what are you paying for a 25 pound bag of Wellness or Evo these days?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I posted this on another forum. 
I did this a couple days ago and was surprised at the figures so I did it again.

Taste of the Wild 3719 kcal/kg $41.99 for 30 lb bag
~85 meals for Max-$.49 per meal.
EVO red meat 4035 kcal/kg $66.69 for 28.6 lb bag
~87 meals for Max-$.76 per meal
Wellness Core 3600 kcal/kg $50.50 for 26 lbs
~71 meals for Max-$.71 per meal

One food I was feeding before switching to real food was this one. It has been nearly 2 years so formulas and bag sizes have changed since I fed this.
Wellness Super5mix 405 kcal/8 ounces. $50.49 for 30 lbs.
~40 meals-$1.26 per meal

Prices from PetFood Direct, kcal numbers from Dogfoodanalysis.

My calculation went - Pounds [lbs] in bag divided by 2.2 kg [kilogram] per lb times kcal per kg divided by 600 kcal per day gives meals per bag. Divide cost of bag by number of meals per bag for cost per meal.

Okay fine. Last month I spent $22 for 21 pounds of meat, organ and fish for his food. $22 divided by 30 meals is $.73 a meal. Granted other stuff sneaks in, eggs and special treats, but that happens with kibble as well. I thought raw cost quite a bit more than even premium kibble. I thought raw was cheaper than canned and more than kibble. 

And a lot of what he gets isn't food I would eat. Liver, kidney, chicken carcass, oily fish, pork feet, pork shoulder, chicken feet? Yuck.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

briteday said:


> I don't find that raw costs any more than a quality kibble.


Ditto on that...for me feeding raw costs a bit less than kibble.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I am a raw feeder, and I would NOT live the rest of my life eating raw meat, bones and organs, not if you paid me.


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