# Best Dog Food



## Dave|Xoxide

What do you guys think is the *best* dog food? Typically I stick with the big name brand stuff, Iams and Purina One Lamb and Rice. Those of you that have experimented with the natural / organic stuff, can you really see a difference in your dog(s), would you recommend it. Hopefully we can spark some good debate. If we come up with handful of really popular ones we can put together a poll as well.

Let's here everyone's recommendations for the Best Dog Food!


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## jzrith

Some people say that giving dogs regular food is the *best* for them. I think that's, in some ways, wrong. It depends on what you give for them and what breed the dog is. I personally just feed my dog whatever my dad gives it.


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## Curbside Prophet

Well, Elsa initially started out with Nutro Ultra, but then I read an article about Nutro Ultra contained menadione, so I decided Elsa deserved better. Having spoken with numerous mini schnauzer owners and breeders, I developed a consensus opinion that Eagle Pack was best for Elsa's energy and activity levels. What I also like about Eagle Pack, is that if you go to their website, they will mail you recommendations for the Eagle Pack product that is best for your dog. Furthermore, I do feel that it's important to consider how all the contents in the food are processed and that supplementation be a component in the product. Eagle Pack does both these things. I'm sure there are other great products out there that do the same thing or more, but Eagle Pack just happened to be the product that satisfied all my needs, and it seems to make Elsa happy too...as evidence in her spirited and bouncy attitude.  I hope I didn't sound like a commercial.


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## Alpha

*gasp* Iams and Purina are just about the worst foods out there! Maybe Kibbles and Bits is worse, but they're all near the end of the road!



I think the best food for dogs, is homemade meals. A proper variety, of organs, muscle, fat, bone, vegetables etc, is what's best for dogs.

But for many of us, including me , homemade is to time consuming. I barely cook for myself.

Canned is much better than kibble as well. Kibble is obviously dry, and a dog must drink much more water to digest it. The kibble absorbs all of the water in their stomach, and three small kibble can turn into a handful once it's absorbed to it's full capacity.

I'm with Prophet, I love *Eagle Pack*.

I've fed: 

*Iams*- A few years ago. Didn't know than, but the reasons for my dogs shiny coat and firm poops were because there are chemicals put directly into the food for those exact purposes. Most people will look at a dogs coat, and stools to determine if a food is good. Iams people know this, and there's a chemical in the foods for that exact reason. I've heard people say, "I've been feeding my dog, so and so, then we switched to Iams and they firmed right up!"... There is a reason and it's NOT because Iams is a good food. It's one of the worst out there.

*Eukanuba*- I saw a commercial, saying that it contained a chemical called DHB, which enhances brain growth. It's true, but I'd rather my dog be all around healthy, than just have a big brain  My girl was overweight, even though she was eating less than the required amounts.

*Wellness*- A higher end brand, when I became more educated about dog food. Although with it's factories changes to go maintstream, to grocery stores and enhance their profit, their formula has suffered.

So I switched to Eagle Pack, I'd prefer to feed Solid Gold or Innova, but neither are available to me. But Eagle Pack is a top of the line food as well.

I really like the fact that their customer service is great. Before switching I spoke to a nutrionist to decide what forumal to feed, and asked what the benefits of feeding canned to kibble were.

So now my guys are on a mixed diet, of canned, for the moisture, and raw protein and the kibble for their teeth.

Dave- Iams and Purina are horrible dog foods. Full of fillers and chemicals and a few months ago a few loads were recalled in my town because a dog died of salmonella poisoning. There are plenty more brands that aren't too expensive and you'll see a great change in your dogs health


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## tirluc

Alpha said:


> *gasp* Iams and Purina are just about the worst foods out there! Maybe Kibbles and Bits is worse, but they're all near the end of the road!
> 
> Canned is much better than kibble as well. Kibble is obviously dry, and a dog must drink much more water to digest it. The kibble absorbs all of the water in their stomach, and three small kibble can turn into a handful once it's absorbed to it's full capacity.
> 
> Dave- Iams and Purina are horrible dog foods. Full of fillers and chemicals and a few months ago a few loads were recalled in my town because a dog died of salmonella poisoning. There are plenty more brands that aren't too expensive and you'll see a great change in your dogs health


ok, this is the main reason i joined this forum at this time.....i totally disagree on the Purina aspect.......i have owned dogs for about 30 yrs now and have tried many different dog foods (Iams, Eukanuba, SD, Canidae) and i have always come back to the Purina products.....a GSD i once owned was on some of your "top foods" and i could never get him to gain/maintain weight, coats looked like crap, stools were never consistant (one day soft/mushy, next day could hardly poop); switched him to Pur Pro Plan and never had a problem w/ him again.....the 3 i have now were on Canidae for about 4-5 mo and their coats went to hell, pooping 3-5 times a day, couldn't keep weight on w/out doubling/tripling their intake....and even my vet said they looked like crap.....put them back over to P.O. and they are back to normal again.....
but not all foods work for all dogs....and sometimes the "best" just don't do 

also, straight canned is NOT better than kibble.....i have never known a vet to recommend (under normal circumstances) straight canned over kibble.....and i have never had a problem w/ my dogs digestion of kibble


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## sheplovr

I agree some of Purina like Pro Plan is basically good. I also like Bil Jac frozen and Innova. Eagle Pack is good, Canidae, Nutro Ultra, there is good and bad in all feed. None are perfect. With 8 Shepherds I will not cook and make the meals I would live in the kitchen and I do not like feeding RAW as u must add so much more to it. Veggies purreed, vitamins, etc. Pick what fits the dog and does well on it and be happy.


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## labloverX3

I have my labs on Nature'sVariety Raw Instinct, 25% raw frozen and 75% raw kibble. I had them on Innova and they too had issues with a dull coat and major poops but I will never feed anything but Nature's Variety Raw Instinct now. They are super shiney, no yeasty ears, teeny poops, twice a day that will totally disintergrate after 3 days if not picked up...although I generally do pick it up on a daily basis.


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## Alpha

I won't argue with you tirluc, I've spoken to many nutrionists, and other than homemade meals, canned is always mentioned as the way to go. 

To be honest, vet's are known for having horrible nutrtion ideas, they are NOT dog nutrionists. 

Many of the brands such as Techni-Cal (made by Royal Canin) that are sold in vet's offices are mere middle of the road foads.

Many people complain about higher end foods giving their dog the runs... it's a richer, higher quality food. Purina and Iams have specific chemicals in those foods to firm your dog up. Most of the higher end foods do not.

So, when you switch from a crap food, to a good food, it's like with people:

You eat crappy Mcdonalds hamburgers everyday. Than one day you eat a real steak. Your gonna get the runs! Your body is not used to those nutrients and needs to begin figuring out what to do with them.

And may I ask why those "vets" said that kibble is better than canned?

From every nutritionist I've spoken too, ALL have stated that canned is better than kibble. They have also given me all of the reasons and scientific explanations as to why.


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## opokki

Alpha: I agree with you on the canned food. 
There are several reasons that I think canned food is better than dry....
- fewer grains/fillers
- more moisture
- doesn't require preservatives (although some formulas add them anyway)
- more fresh, whole ingredients

Having said that, I only feed canned food occasionally because it is too expensive for me to feed more frequently at this time. My poodle was on canned food exclusively for about a year and did fabulous on it. One vet told me that you are paying for mostly water but if you think about it you are paying for mostly water everytime you buy fresh food at the store for yourself as well.... Chicken is about 70% water. The other vet didn't seem to have a preference between canned or dry but did feed her own dogs canned food.

I have been really impressed with Timberwolf Organics dry food and have used it for almost 4yrs now. Other than difficulties in getting responses to my questions from the manufacturer, I have been very happy with it.

I have also used Innova and was very happy with it and with the quick replies to all of my questions from the manufacturer.

Eagle Pack is one brand that I continuously hear great things about. I've used it temporarily in the past but it just wasn't suitable for Natalie's anal gland issues.


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## Alpha

LOl, Opokki, I should mention as well that I don't feed just canned myself either.  ROFL

I should practice what I preach eh? But I do have my reasons.

I spoke with an Eagle Pack nutrionist about the benefits of both, and have since decided a mix is what is best for my dogs. All of which reasons are connected:

The first being I pay $2.50/can, with Roxy's weight she should be eating 6 cans a day!  She would put on weight, guarenteed and with her abnormal hips, she is to be a lean as can be. The second is, Eagle Pack has a great dry food forumula that I am happy so far with, and the dry food does help to a small percentage with the build up of plaque. The few pieces of kibble that my dogs actual chew as oppose to just swallow.

Also, I'm sure, if I fed them just canned, they would have tummy problems from eating too fast. The kibble does slow them down tremendously.

Since feeding a mix of wet and canned, I've noticed they eat less often a day, but Hades is gaining weight (he's only a year) and Roxy has lost a few pounds, which she needed too


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## kellymac

The only thing that we have ever fed any of our dog's is Purina. My boyfriend has some Plot Hounds and then we have Daisy (our little cow dog), so we have joined that program that Purina has. They send us coupons for dog food. Even the cat gets Purina. Their coats stay so shiny and soft and they are all very healthy.


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## Danielle5247

*Wellness*

My Zoe had previously been on Purina ONE until just a week ago when i realized how awful the ingredients were. I then started her on Wellness which is soo wonderful. It has made her coat look great and she absolutly loves it. I even switched my cat to Wellness! All the premium brands seem like they are really good, like Innova and Eagle Pack. But Zoe really loves the Wellness so I plan on keeping her on that for a while!


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## Bonnie

*Canidae*

A few years back someone recommended Canidae becuase my Husky was getting older and having a few issues. I could not believe the change in her in just a couple weeks she was like a puppy again. I swear Canidae gave her 3 extra years! Now its all I feed my 6 Yorkies, its good for all stages of a dogs life. I even feed it to my litters! 
Bonnie


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## Chrissie

Alpha said:


> I won't argue with you tirluc, I've spoken to many nutrionists, and other than homemade meals, canned is always mentioned as the way to go.
> 
> To be honest, vet's are known for having horrible nutrtion ideas, they are NOT dog nutrionists.
> 
> Many of the brands such as Techni-Cal (made by Royal Canin) that are sold in vet's offices are mere middle of the road foads.
> 
> Many people complain about higher end foods giving their dog the runs... it's a richer, higher quality food. Purina and Iams have specific chemicals in those foods to firm your dog up. Most of the higher end foods do not.
> 
> So, when you switch from a crap food, to a good food, it's like with people:
> 
> You eat crappy Mcdonalds hamburgers everyday. Than one day you eat a real steak. Your gonna get the runs! Your body is not used to those nutrients and needs to begin figuring out what to do with them.
> 
> And may I ask why those "vets" said that kibble is better than canned?
> 
> From every nutritionist I've spoken too, ALL have stated that canned is better than kibble. They have also given me all of the reasons and scientific explanations as to why.



Trye about the vet quote. Many vets do not have a clue about what to feed a dog..I would never ask a vet what brand of dry dog food to feed my dogs! 

Science Diet, Alpo, Bil Jac, Purina, Iams, Eukanuba,and most of the dog foods you can find at your local store are trash! I am digusted and saddened when I hear this is what people are feeding their dogs. They say "well my dogs been on it for years and shes doing fine" They just dont get it. There is a science behind it, and really just do some simple research.

Many of these foods contain corn in the top ingrediants, and corn should NOT be in a dogs diet! It leads too many different problems, such as hair/skin/coat problems...to name a few. If you look on your dogs bag and check out the ingrediants if it says corn, soy,no wheat, ..do NOT feed to your dog. 

Also these foods say they have meat in them. LOL..there is no good nutritious meat at all, but nasty byproducts and the trash leftover that they pawn off as meat. There are articles showing that the meat that is in our dogs foods if any really is the spoiled, ooooold, rotten meat that has expired from our local supermarkets..and they get thrown into huge vats that make the dog food...plastic wrapper and all..its true. I didnt know any of this untill I giot my 2nd dog a year ago, and started researching dog foods.

There are many great dog foods out there that have real nutritional value, and are filled with what a dog needs. Remember, dogs are omnivores, and cats are carnivores. Dogs NEED to eat vegetables and fruits, and meat. The dog foods should include tomatoes, blueberries, carrots, kelp, bananas, cranberries, sweet potatos, and more, I could go on and on. 

Raw is awesome for the dogs, and if you cant do raw, which I personally do both..I use a great brand of ready made raw food by Aunt Jenis...its great. I also feed my dogs kibble, by the name of Timberwolf Organics. The problem with many of the crappy dog brands, are also that they have all this added "stuf" in the them, to extend their shelf life..there is just so much I could add, I just cant stand these dog food brands that people swear by. By feeding actual good food, it does and will make a difference in the long turn. Yes, you still have to find which "good" dog food suits your particular breed and its needs....and when switching over it does take some adjustments. If your dog is pooping too much, you maybe feeding too much food, or the wrong particular type of food..there is such a thing as too much protein for your canine companion.

Also if you dont want too, you dont understand it, orcant do it, though if you do it right, it really doesnt take too much time in the kitchjen...it really doesnt (it can be overwhelming for newbies), and if doen right and smart it wont hurt your wallets. But a noice and very healthy simple thing you can do, is to give your dog a tablespoon or two of plain yogurt, or cottage cheese,and even an egg...also if they will eat it just by giving it to them..tyr giving them veggies and fruits! Just never feed them..onions, raisins, grapes, and never salt. If you give them an apple, core it..my dogs love apples and bananas.

Good brands are: Timberwolf Organics, Natures Variety, Merrick, Great Life, Eagle,Innova Evo, Blackwood, Chicken Soup for the dog/puppy, these are a few of excellent choices for your 4 legged friend.

Other good choices: Wellness, I love wellness treats, and Innova treats..only treats I feed my dogs. Do NOT feed treats such as pups in a blanket, or any of those treats made by Alpo, or Purina...just read the ingrdients,..and remember No, corn,soy or wheat!

Allso when feeding your dogs treatsand snacks..same rules..make sure their is NO corn, NO soy, and NO wheat!!!! NO byproducts!!


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## DFrost

Arguments about what to feed have gone on for years. I feed 42 working dogs, they all get Nutro. We don't have skin problems, the dogs have all then energy they need to have. The coats look great and the dogs have better than average life spans. These are all working dogs, Labs, GSD's, Mals, Goldens etc. I've been feeding the same food for at leat the past 15 years and we just don't have any problems. There are always those that say the dogs could be healthier, I have to ask, healthier than what? 

DFrost


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## Chrissie

*Nutro*

You are doing well by your dogs..Nutro is a pretty good food, especially Nutro Ultra, and Hollistic..and hey we could all behealthier, right?! LOL


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## Pitbull

If you need some more info on which dog food to choose, here's a good place to start:

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

Here are my personal choices for good quality dog kibble:
- Timberwolf Organics: Timberwolf Organics - Herbal Natural Pet Food
- Merrick: Merrick Pet Foods
- Nature's Variety: Nature’s Variety
- Wellness: Old Mother Hubbard
- Innova: http://www.naturapet.com
- Canidae: All Natural, Human Grade, Holistic Pet Foods. Dog Food, Cat Food, Kitten Food, Dog Biscuits, & Canidae Platinum Diet

The foods I would definately avoid:
- Pedigree
- Iams
- Purina
- Eukaneuba
- Science Diet
- Ol Roy

Here are some non-kibble foods that I personally like:
- Healthy Paws: Healthy Paws Incorporated - Fresh to Frozen pet food supplier
- Urban Wolf: All Natural Grain-Free Pre-mix for Raw Homemade Dog Foods - Mix With Raw or Cooked Meat & serve. raw holistic dog foods, raw barf, raw barf homemade dog foods, natural pet foods, natural barf dog foods


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## Pitbull

Hey...by the way, does anybody know why the links are automatically changed? I never put all that stuff down lol.


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## all4thedogs

I know what works for my dogs, so IMO is the best food (for MY dogs).

My dogs get raw in the AM (Chicken, turkey, beef, pork, venison, eggs, tripe, sweetbreads etc)

They get Canidae for dinner

I suppliment with Solid Gold SeaMeal.

My dogs have never looked better. They are a healthy weight, no skin issues, and their stools are small and turn white in a day or so (this is great since my dogs are a Great Dane and a GSD).

I know this diet doesnt work for all dogs, but it has made such a change in my dogs lives. My GSD has always had trouble holding weight, and finally he looks great. My Great Dane had skin issues and horrible gas/stools. His coat looks great and his stool is much smaller then my parents lab.


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## toniaxp

Well my parents fed their dog generic food from co-op and that dog never had any health problems and lived to be 16 years old and died from old age.....Beat that Purina lol


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## all4thedogs

There is ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. My mother fed our cat Special Kitty (Walmart brand food) and he lived to be 21yrs old.

Personally, I wouldnt take the risk feeding that junk. Its full of fillers, dyes, by-products and other junk. 

There will always be someone whos pet lived forever on junk food and died young on quality food. Feeding super premium foods is no guarentee that your pet will live a long, healthy, cancer-free life, but it sure increases your odds.

Its the same as people. For example, my 2 Grandmothers. One was active, ate heathly, worked, had low stress, and died at 72yrs old. The other was very inactive, act ONLY junk food, was depressed, had major medical problems and lived to see 86. So because my "un-healthy" Grandmother had a horrible lifestyle and lived longer, should I also live un-healthy? NO, my chances are much better if I live a healthy lifestyle and eat good foods


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## Pitbull

Just knowing what ingredients are in regular grocery store brand dog foods is enough to make me say NO WAY. Would you eat that junk? No...so why feed your dog absolute trash? 

I just don't get it.....


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## puppy girl

*kibbles and Mini chunks*



Dave|Xoxide said:


> What do you guys think is the *best* dog food? Typically I stick with the big name brand stuff, Iams and Purina One Lamb and Rice. Those of you that have experimented with the natural / organic stuff, can you really see a difference in your dog(s), would you recommend it. Hopefully we can spark some good debate. If we come up with handful of really popular ones we can put together a poll as well.
> 
> Let's here everyone's recommendations for the Best Dog Food![/QUOTE
> I would say kibbles and Mini chunks... it says its really healthy, but we are going to change dog food to a healtheyer one.


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## all4thedogs

All dog foods claim to be healthy, they arent going to sell the food if they call it crap. Its up to the consumer to research the ingredients, and purchase what is best for their dogs. Many dogs are allergic to corn, wheat and soy, these are VERY common in most dog foods (including Purina, Iams, Pedigree, Ol' Roy etc). There is a lot of info on the web to help you pick the best food for your pooch


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## all4thedogs

Also, most of the great dog foods dont advertise, they dont have to. They use the money that would be used for advertising and put it back in the food. Better ingredients are more expencive, and this keeps the cost for the consumer down. 

Iams is owned by Proctor and Gamble, and huge company with many products, most of which are not animals products. The dog food is just another way to put money into big company pockets. For the most part, these companies dont care about the consumer, its more about the $$. (Iams is just and example, Purina is also owned by a huge company, Nestle I believe).

Canidae, Califonia Natural, Solid Gold, Pinnacle, Innova, Wellness, Chicken Soup are a few examples of amazing dog food, that you dont see commercials for. This are top of the line kibbles with only the best ingredients.


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## dogluver101

I like innova. Calfornia Natural is good but after feeding it to my dogs their coat wasn't looking good. But Natural balance is good also. I break the rolls in little chunks and put a few pieces in the food.


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## all4thedogs

Not every dog food is great for every dog! My dogs dont do well on Chicken Soup at all, but its still a top quality food. There is just something in it that doesnt agree with their tummies. Canidae is reasonably priced, and my dogs are doing amazing on it. 

My mom feeds Innova Evo, and her dog loves it, and looks great!


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## alundy

When we got Scout from the foster home she was eating Science Diet (crap in my opinion) and her coat looked dull, plus she seemed to have some allergies with small bumps on her tummy. 

We put her on Nutro Natural Balance, which she did not like at all! She just had no interest in eating it. 

Then we switched to California Natural Lamb & Rice, and this is perfect for her. Her allergies and coat cleared up and she enjoys the food a lot. I think we'll stick with this brand when we change to adult food as well.

Now my mom's chihuahua has been eating the cheapest Walmart brand out there and is 13 years old, very healthy (from what we can tell). I guess everyone's different.


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## puppy girl

I would say Kibbles and Bits, my puppy loves it!


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## Dog Meister

I've found that far to many people do not have enough
information on commercial dog food to make informed
decisions on how or what to feed their dogs.

I've been raising dogs for more than 30 years and do know
about commercial dog foods.

Please take a minute to visit my blog @ 
Dog Health ~ Dog Food Recipes
and read the various posts on commercial dog food.

Or go to this link 
Dog Food Recipes - Best Dog Food Recipes
and use Google Site Search for the over 60 articles 
I've written on commercial dog food by typing in "commercial dog food" 

You won't be sorry!


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## Boxermom4

Well, we personally feed Timberwolf Organics, wild n natural. That's what works really good for us. However, 14years ago we started out with Eukanuba, at the time, that was the best around, we went to Wellness, Nutro, Iams. I think over the first 4 years we tried alot, thinking it was good. We learned because we wanted to learn, we wanted to improve their food. I think that everyone learns if they want to and sometimes they find a food that may not be "top of the line" in someones opinion, but that doesn't matter, if your dogs like it and their happy and healthy and that's what your compfortable feeding then that's what you should feed. There are alot of resources out there to get information from, good luck with whatever you decide.


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## tirluc

i think this topic should be titled "WHAT FOOD IS BEST FOR YOUR DOG" because nobody will ever agree on it anyway.....


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## all4thedogs

I agree, it should be titled "What do you feed your dog?"


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## LabLady101

Boxermom4 said:


> Well, we personally feed Timberwolf Organics, wild n natural. That's what works really good for us. However, 14years ago we started out with Eukanuba, at the time, that was the best around, we went to Wellness, Nutro, Iams. I think over the first 4 years we tried alot, thinking it was good. We learned because we wanted to learn, we wanted to improve their food. I think that everyone learns if they want to and sometimes they find a food that may not be "top of the line" in someones opinion, but that doesn't matter, if your dogs like it and their happy and healthy and that's what your compfortable feeding then that's what you should feed. There are alot of resources out there to get information from, good luck with whatever you decide.


I totally agree! Whatever food works best for you and your dog is the best food. For crying out loud, some of the top breeders in the country feed their dogs *gasp* Dog Chow! But, that is what works best for their dogs and I'm certainly not going to tell them they're wrong for feeding it. I, personally, don't ever base my decisions on opinions of what is good or bad- not without some solid research to back it up. If I did, my dogs would NEVER find a stable diet (as opinions seem to change like fads) and my dogs would, therefore, be the ones paying the ultimate price for switching so frequently. Food rollercoaster and allergies, here we come!...

My dogs have been and are doing excellent on NutriSource, so that is what I will continue to feed (unless they begin to have issues with it)- regardless of what other opinions may or may not be about it.

Just my 2c,
Darcy


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## Schnauzer

*Types of Dog Food*

I've been feeding my dogs commercial dog foods for 15 years, but due to recent health issues I've started looking into alternatives. Like the original poster, I'm trying to identify the "best" commercial dog foods. I'm also looking into alternatives to commercial dog food (home-made, etc.).

As part of this research project (I'm a professional student), I've created a site which discusses all the alternatives I've been able to find. You might find it interesting. I would certainly be interested in any comments or feedback on it. The site is:
Natural and Premium Dog Food


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## exotic

My dogs get pretty much the same food that my African Servals get. They have a prey model raw diet that has always worked very well for them.

BTW, in my breeds' natural habitats (because of the type of dogs they are) they would eats what I feed them now.


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## mrggnzlz

*Help!*

I have 10month old husky that has had diarrhea ever since I got her! She Pro Plan sensitive stomach worked good for a little while..but just about every other day her stool is very mushy! Is homemade cooking really the way to go??


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## all4thedogs

Home cooked, Raw, BARF are all great diets, but require a lot of research. Start reading up on it, and then you can decide if its for you and your dog


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## Kodi

Despite what was said about purina one , In my opinion its a good food, the first 2 ingrediants are meat products (which the vet i worked for said was the first thing to look for). And my dogs have maintained good wieght nice coats and healthy joints and theyve been on purina one lamb and rice for 2 years. I certainly wouldnt call it junk, its a premium food. I think its what is healthy and appetizing for your dog that makes a food good.


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## exotic

Really, you should be looking at the first few ingredients, not just the first two.

I also go on the companies that own the brands...Purina is owned by Nestle for example.


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## Curbside Prophet

Mmmmmm...if Purina comes out with a dark chocolate dog food I might try it for myself.


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## DC Whittier

*dog food*

I knew I needed something better than "Beef n more"(too many leftover grains,by-products)and raw or homemade didnt seem practical to me,and there were some safety issues..so i looked for any super-premium brand of dry/canned food i could find that met the following criteria:

1.preferrably organic-sourced ingredients

2.whole-grains rather than fractionated grains(no corn,soy or wheat)

3.no by-products

4.naturally preserved

5.includes probiotics/enzymes(important in any processed and cooked food)

6.chelated minerals(for better utilization)

7.includes some veggies and/or botanicals 

8.whole meats(not parts)

There are several brands in this category,but the one I picked was "Newmans Own organics",so far,my dog has done well on it..reduced scratching and licking and better coat


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## mrbingley

DFrost said:


> Arguments about what to feed have gone on for years. I feed 42 working dogs, they all get Nutro. We don't have skin problems, the dogs have all then energy they need to have. The coats look great and the dogs have better than average life spans. These are all working dogs, Labs, GSD's, Mals, Goldens etc. I've been feeding the same food for at leat the past 15 years and we just don't have any problems. There are always those that say the dogs could be healthier, I have to ask, healthier than what?
> 
> DFrost





Chrissie said:


> You are doing well by your dogs..Nutro is a pretty good food, especially Nutro Ultra, and Hollistic..and hey we could all behealthier, right?! LOL



I recently switched my dogs to Nutro Natural Choice. I like it because it has glucosamine and chondritin in it, and there is no corn or chicken by-product in it. Both dogs seem to be doing very well on it.
Over the years I've fed Iams (liked it), Science Diet (didn't like it--my old dog developed joint stiffness on it which went away as soon as I quit feeding it to him), and Purina Beneful (it was alright).
I don't like to feed canned if it can be avoided just because kibble is so much better for their teeth. I do give canned as a treat to my big dog, and my toy poodle now gets it mixed in with his kibble as he doesn't eat enough otherwise. Both dogs have unlimited access to water--so I don't worry too much about their food's moisture content.
I don't think there is an easy answer to the dog food question. My vet swore by Science Diet, but my old dog had a horrible experience with it.
What we know about health and nutrition is constantly changing, so I base my decisions on my continued learning and, most importantly, what seems to work the best for my dogs.


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## Debbie

Have any of you tried Natural Balance dog food? Had my dogs on the Potato & Duck Formula but my Cocker didn't like it, our English Bulldog did. I have switched them to the Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice formula they both like it. The Cocker has allergies so finding a good for her as well as the EB was important. It's good quality food.

Debbie


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## Meghan&Pedro

I've taken pet nutrition courses, and have been in pet food and supply for almost five years now.

Most of my brain-power is spent learning as much as I can about dog and cat nutrition.

In my opinion for dogs, the best kibble foods available are :

*Orijen* - I love it!
*Innova*
*Solid Gold *(which is a life-stage formula, which I can't say I'm 100% on board with, but great for active adults!)

I like the idea of feeding raw diet or cooked diet - but the biggest thing is that most of the time the dogs teeth suffer - it's hard to keep up with brushing the dogs teeth enough - feeding enough hard cookies and bones to chew, and adding the supplements to the water to help clean the teeth also when they're eating a soft diet. It's not ideal for most people, but the nutrition is there for sure.


----------



## klhaymon

*I'm a Pedigree Girl...*

I have experimented with different dog foods, so far I have only had great results with two types of food, table food and Pedigree but I see no mention of Pedigree here

My very first dog was a german shepard and being that we lived in country, all she ate was table food. She was very healthy until she died (my neighbor's poisoned her)

I had a great dane, a rescue, that came to me in the poorest health :-( He was severely underweight and I gave him Pedigree Puppy mixture of dry and canned combined with multivitamins and had him at an acceptable weight in no time. Everyone suggested the more expensive dogs foods but he wouldn't eat them, he did eat the Bill Jac but it attracted flies and that's when I went back to what I knew worked...Pedigree.

Someone told me that Pedigree was junk food but I have not had any bad experiences with it, I haven't had a single pet that needed any extra veterinary attention while they were on it.


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## Meghan&Pedro

Pedigree is not an awful food. It meets the AAFCO standards for a complete diet, HOWEVER I've pulled the ingredients list off of their website to help explain why there are better foods out there.


> Ingredients
> GROUND YELLOW CORN, MEAT AND BONE MEAL, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCT MEAL, ANIMAL FAT (PRESERVED WITH BHA/BHT), WHEAT MILL RUN, NATURAL POULTRY FLAVOR, RICE, WHEAT FLOUR, SALT, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, VEGETABLE OIL (SOURCE OF LINOLEIC ACID), VITAMINS (CHOLINE CHLORIDE, dl-ALPHA TOCOPHEROL ACETATE [SOURCE OF VITAMIN E], L-ASCORBYL-2- POLYPHOSPHATE [SOURCE OF VITAMIN C*], VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINE MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], BIOTIN, d-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT [VITAMIN B2], VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT), TRACE MINERALS (ZINC SULPHATE, COPPER SULPHATE, POTASSIUM IODIDE).
> GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
> CRUDE PROTEIN, MIN. 21.0%
> CRUDE FAT, MIN. 9.0%
> CRUDE FIBRE, MAX. 4.0%
> MOISTURE, MAX. 12.0%
> VITAMIN E, MIN. 225 IU/kg
> ASCORBIC ACID (VIT. C*), MIN. 70 mg/kg
> 
> *NOT RECOGNIZED AS AN ESSENTIAL NUTRIENT BY THE AAFCO DOG FOOD NUTRIENT PROFILES.
> Calorie Content:
> Metabolized Energy (ME) (Calculated): 3300 kcal/kg
> 305 kcal/cup


Corn is a cheap filler that goes in one end of the dog and out the other. The second ingredient is "meat and bone meal" - what type of meats are these? I have not a clue. And thirdly, the chicken that is it in is Chicken-By-Product.

When they say "by product" it doesn't mean that it's all nessicarily the gross leftovers of the animal, but it does include some of the gross leftovers of the animal, and could be mostly made up of this. They also weigh the meat 'wet' which means with hair (or featers), water, and unusable parts still on it. With the weight of the meat, they come up with the guarenteed analysis for protein. They THEN strip off the feathers (or hair), unusable parts, and dehydrate it. That's the amount of meat that is ACTUALLY going into the food. 

A good rule of thumb is : Any dog food that you can buy at a grocery store, is not top quality.

If you don't want to go up too much in price, but want to go up HUGE in quality, you could do one of the high-end-mid-grade foods such as Nutro (either natural choice or Ultra!)

At the average store (speaking in canadian dollars, and in regards to prices of these foods on Vancouver Island where I live!) most retailers sell Nutro Natural Choice foods for the big bags (13.6kg - 17.1kg, depending on the specific forumla) at about 34.00-42.00, depending on where you go. Nutro also offers a buy 10 bags get 1 free program.

There are definatly steps up in quality from Nutro too, but Nutro is a GREAT food, it's definatly under-priced for what it is compared to foods such as Science Diet and Iams that are lower-quality ingrediets for a much higher price, and eukanuba, which is similar quality for a much higher price!

Just for example, here's the nutritional information of Nutro Natural Choice Chicken And Rice 


> Ingredients
> Chicken Meal, Rice Flour, Ground Rice, Rice Bran, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Oatmeal, Soybean Oil, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Natural Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Dried Kelp (source of Iodine), Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Biotin, Niacin, Garlic Flavor, Manganese Oxide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin A Supplement, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Chondroitin Sulfate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid.
> Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals, including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients.
> 
> Guaranteed Analysis
> Crude Protein (minimum) 21.00%
> Crude Fat (minimum) 12.00%
> Crude Fiber (maximum) 5.00%
> Moisture (maximum) 10.00%
> Linoleic Acid (minimum) 3.50%
> Zinc (minimum) 250 mg/kg
> Vitamin E (minimum) 150 IU/kg
> Ascorbic Acid (minimum)* 35 mg/kg
> Glucosamine (minimum)* 450 mg/kg
> Chondroitin Sulfate (minimum)* 350 mg/kg


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## Debbie

Meghan&Pedro said:


> I've taken pet nutrition courses, and have been in pet food and supply for almost five years now.
> 
> Most of my brain-power is spent learning as much as I can about dog and cat nutrition.
> 
> In my opinion for dogs, the best kibble foods available are :
> 
> *Orijen* - I love it!
> *Innova*
> *Solid Gold *(which is a life-stage formula, which I can't say I'm 100% on board with, but great for active adults!)
> 
> I like the idea of feeding raw diet or cooked diet - but the biggest thing is that most of the time the dogs teeth suffer - it's hard to keep up with brushing the dogs teeth enough - feeding enough hard cookies and bones to chew, and adding the supplements to the water to help clean the teeth also when they're eating a soft diet. It's not ideal for most people, but the nutrition is there for sure.


How about the ingerdients in 
**** Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium Dog Food

Chicken, Brown Rice, Duck, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols-a source of Vitamin E, Citric Acid, and Rosemary Extract), Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Carrots, Potassium Chloride, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Dried Kelp, Sodium Chloride, Parsley Flakes, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplements, Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C), Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Lysine, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Inositol, Folic Acid (Vitamin B, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D-3), Biotin, Ethylene Diamine Dihydriodide (source of Iodine), Cobalt Sulfate, Vitamin K Supplement, Sodium Selenite.
Or these
**** Van Patten's Natural Balance Potato & Duck Formula

Potatoes, duck, duck meal, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), potato fiber, dl-methionine, l-lysine, sodium chloride, salmon oil, flaxseed oil, rosemary extract, natural flavor, yucca schidigera extract, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid. 

Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice Formula Dog Food
Venison, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, venison meal, rice bran, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), natural flavor, flaxseed oil, kelp meal, yucca schidigera extract, potassium chloride, sodium chloride, choline chloride, l-lysine, dl-methionine, dicalcium phosphate, dried parsley, rosemary extract, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), vitamin E supplement, taurine, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, vitamin A supplement, biotin supplement, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid.


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## Debbie

Is any one of the above foods better than the other?

Thanks,

Debbie


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## ice.llagas

ive already tried different brands of pet food for my dog. ive tried optima, pro plan, eukanuba, pet one and beef pro. been switching from one brand to another just to look for a food that my canine loves. but mine is a finicky eater. for awhile, i thought ive found a food that is good for her but after awhile she suddenly loose her appetite. until now, i still couldnt find a food that would really makes a difference. my dilema is that the brands that you guys recommended are not available to me. except for nutro, nutra and eagle pack. my question is what do you guys think is the better food among the brands i mentioned which would also make her coat shine? tnx.


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## Debbie

Do you have a Petco or PetSmart near you? They both have good food. I get the Natural Balance dog food at Petco. Also Tractor Supply and some feed stores sell the good food.
Debbie


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## Keylow

*Pitbull Perspective*

Okay, so I have this one question. What is the best brand of food to feed a pitbull. I have a 1 year old pit and a 3 month old pit. I want to bread them but I want them to look good, shinny, strong, and with muscles wel defined.
What is the right type of food to feed a pitbull?


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## Dulce

Keylow said:


> Okay, so I have this one question. What is the best brand of food to feed a pitbull. I have a 1 year old pit and a 3 month old pit. I want to bread them but I want them to look good, shinny, strong, and with muscles wel defined.
> What is the right type of food to feed a pitbull?


It makes me cringe that you want to breed your Pit Bulls. There are so many homeless Pits out there, why continue to overpopulate, and let others die?

Anyway, back to topic...

Innova, and Innova EVO are great foods. Anything FISH & POTATO are great for their coats (That's what I feed mine)
Neutro, Natural Balance, are also great foods.

For the most part, Fish is the best for the conditioning of coats. 


(PS...you can't breed a 3 month old dog...is that what you're doing?)


I want to add, food won't give your dog muscle definition, only exercise will do that. Weight pulling, spring poles, and tread mills will build great muscle mass.


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## Whitney

Has anyone heard of Nutrience dog food? I have looked through some of the posts to see if it was mentioned, and I just saw it at the pet store (I went to buy some Merrick doggie bones) but I was in a real rush and didn't get to look at the package. We have Eagle Pack brand and something else that starts with an "A" here... otherwise we are pretty limited. I looked at the Nutrience web site:

http://www.nutrience.com/english-eu/dog/index.html

And... I looked at one of there products, 8+ years for large/giant breeds. The first product is Maize. I don't really know what maize is to be exact, but isn't it kind of like a corn...? or a grain? I don't know much about dry kibble, other than to look for certain preservatives that are bad for people let alone dogs, and a bunch of other stuff. I feed Eagle Pack brand, currently... but was just curious about this other food.


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## Dulce

Corn is NOT good for dogs. THat's all I know about the food you mentioned


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## Meghan&Pedro

Corn goes in one end and out the other. 

It does not fill the dog up for very long, and often your dog will be left hungry shortly after eating.

They tend to have larger stools, and a larger VOLUME of stools because they're eating something that they don't digest much of.

It's cheap to use in food, and that's why a lot of brands still use it.

If your dog does not have any type of corn allergy or sensativity, then it's not BAD for your dog to be eating, but it's not good for your dog to be eating. It doesn't benefit them in any way.


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## Honeyshuman

*Nutro/cats and Natures Recipe/Ginger*

I've been reading thru all the info you all have given...I have been feeding 'the girls' (my 3 cats) Nutro,Natural Choice for a yr or so, they seem to be thriving.
When I brought Ginger home from the shelter, they gave me Science Diet..I took it..and have been gradually weaning her off of it. (One of my girlfriend's has been denouncing SD to anyone who will hear, because it had a serious negative effect on her poms, that has been at least 15yrs!) Since I have seen her on it, she itches.
Anyway, so I stopped at PetsSmart on the way home from the shelter and got her Nature's Recipe, the ingredients sound good, after listening to y'all:
Chicken meal, ground rice, pearled barley...at least it lists no corn, soy or wheat.
But I am researching where I can purchase Eagle Pack near me..and will check it out.
Am I ok continuing with the Natures Recipe for the time being? 
I also purchased some 'cows ears' the other day to give her something to do while I was not occupied with her eek: ) for a few minutes.
Please redirect me, if I need to be!
I appreciate it!
Nancy


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## LabLady101

ice.llagas said:


> ive already tried different brands of pet food for my dog. ive tried optima, pro plan, eukanuba, pet one and beef pro. been switching from one brand to another just to look for a food that my canine loves. but mine is a finicky eater. for awhile, i thought ive found a food that is good for her but after awhile she suddenly loose her appetite. until now, i still couldnt find a food that would really makes a difference. my dilema is that the brands that you guys recommended are not available to me. except for nutro, nutra and eagle pack. my question is what do you guys think is the better food among the brands i mentioned which would also make her coat shine? tnx.


Just MHO, but that sounds like too much switching to me. How long do you keep her on a food before switching again? IMHO, it takes at least a good 8 weeks to see true results from a food change. And her being a "finicky eater" or "losing her appetite" is a behavior that she's training you in. You need to be the alpha dog. You decide when & what she eats- not her. To remedy this, I would first suggestion buying one brand of food. Then, go to scheduled meal times- if you're not on them already. Next, at meal times, leave the bowl down for only 10 minutes and then pick it up- no cheating on time either. If she eats it all, she'll get the regular amount of food at the next feeding. If she doesn't eat or only eats a portion, she gets that same meal at the next feeding. Keep doing this (that's right, no cheating no matter how "hungry" she looks), and she should begin to eat her meals right away. She will not starve herself unless there is something medically wrong with her. As for the food, you're the only one who'll be able to tell if it's right for your dog. If her energy level & weight are good, poops are pretty firm and small (but not like rabbit pellets), eyes & ears are clear, and coat is in good condition, then I'd say it's working. If not and she's got large, plentiful poops, poor body condition, and/or she appears to have an allergy (licking, scratching, overly yeasty ears), then switch. But keep in mind that it takes time to see true results. Good luck!

Just MHO and 2c,
Darcy


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## tsteele93

Alpha said:


> So I switched to Eagle Pack, I'd prefer to feed Solid Gold or Innova, but neither are available to me. But Eagle Pack is a top of the line food as well.


I don't know what your situation is, but I use Innova Puppy and if you are on this forum, it is available to you.

http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/

You have to pay shipping, but if you order the largest size bags the shipping isn't quite so bad.

I do think Eagle Pack is a decent food though. But the Innova sure looks a lot better on paper and my dog goes nuts for it.

-Tom Steele
www.myspace.com/dermotdog
www.myspace.com/nordbert


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## tsteele93

toniaxp said:


> Well my parents fed their dog generic food from co-op and that dog never had any health problems and lived to be 16 years old and died from old age.....Beat that Purina lol



Yeah, I think that is amusing since my first dog lived to 13+ and ate nothing but pure unadulterated junk. Mostly moist and meaty or gaines burgers. He liked it, and he seemed just fine.

Now with my new dog I am mail-ordering Innova and wondering if even it might be deficient in some area. 

I think the reality is that if you find a food your pet likes and tolerates well, you are probably just fine rather than worrying about whether your corn content is too high or whatever.

I still like the idea of avoiding ethoxyquin and BHT and BHA.

-Tom Steele
www.myspace.com/dermotdog
www.myspace.com/nordbert


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## tsteele93

Honeyshuman said:


> When I brought Ginger home from the shelter, they gave me Science Diet..I took it..and have been gradually weaning her off of it. (One of my girlfriend's has been denouncing SD to anyone who will hear, because it had a serious negative effect on her poms, that has been at least 15yrs!) Since I have seen her on it, she itches.
> Anyway, so I stopped at PetsSmart on the way home from the shelter and got her Nature's Recipe, the ingredients sound good, after listening to y'all:
> Chicken meal, ground rice, pearled barley...at least it lists no corn, soy or wheat.
> But I am researching where I can purchase Eagle Pack near me..and will check it out.
> Am I ok continuing with the Natures Recipe for the time being?


Nancy, you'll be ok feeding Ginger Gaine's Burgers (do they still make those?) for the "time being." Your dog will be fine with most commercial dog foods and Nature's Recipe isn't going to do your dog any harm.

Now, that said, is it the best thing to feed her? Here is a decent review of the Nature's Best that sounds closest to what you are feeding:

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=191&cat=6

You mentioned trying to find Eagle Pack locally.

How big is your dog? You can order online and ordering the largest packages helps cut the cost of shipping down as a percentage of overall cost.

http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/

They have a wide variety of the Eagle Pack Products and you can analyze them at www.dogfoodanalysis.com

Hope that helps.

-Tom Steele
www.myspace.com/dermotdog
www.myspace.com/nordbert


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## tsteele93

Whitney said:


> Has anyone heard of Nutrience dog food? I have looked through some of the posts to see if it was mentioned, and I just saw it at the pet store (I went to buy some Merrick doggie bones) but I was in a real rush and didn't get to look at the package. We have Eagle Pack brand and something else that starts with an "A" here... otherwise we are pretty limited. I looked at the Nutrience web site:
> 
> http://www.nutrience.com/english-eu/dog/index.html
> 
> And... I looked at one of there products, 8+ years for large/giant breeds. The first product is Maize. I don't really know what maize is to be exact, but isn't it kind of like a corn...? or a grain? I don't know much about dry kibble, other than to look for certain preservatives that are bad for people let alone dogs, and a bunch of other stuff. I feed Eagle Pack brand, currently... but was just curious about this other food.


http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=408&cat=6


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## tsteele93

Debbie said:


> How about the ingerdients in
> **** Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium Dog Food
> 
> Chicken, Brown Rice, Duck, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols-a source of Vitamin E, Citric Acid, and Rosemary Extract), Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Carrots, Potassium Chloride, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Dried Kelp, Sodium Chloride, Parsley Flakes, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplements, Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C), Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Lysine, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Inositol, Folic Acid (Vitamin B, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D-3), Biotin, Ethylene Diamine Dihydriodide (source of Iodine), Cobalt Sulfate, Vitamin K Supplement, Sodium Selenite.
> 
> Or these
> **** Van Patten's Natural Balance Potato & Duck Formula
> 
> Potatoes, duck, duck meal, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), potato fiber, dl-methionine, l-lysine, sodium chloride, salmon oil, flaxseed oil, rosemary extract, natural flavor, yucca schidigera extract, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid.
> 
> Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice Formula Dog Food
> Venison, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, venison meal, rice bran, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), natural flavor, flaxseed oil, kelp meal, yucca schidigera extract, potassium chloride, sodium chloride, choline chloride, l-lysine, dl-methionine, dicalcium phosphate, dried parsley, rosemary extract, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), vitamin E supplement, taurine, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, vitamin A supplement, biotin supplement, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid.


Don't like the menadione...

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

Otherwise, I think the **** Van Patten dog foods are good stuff.

I've seen Innova mentioned.

Artemis is also a great product. 

My dog likes both, but prefers the Innova and since they are both pretty good (although I think the Artemis reads better) I give him the Innova Puppy for now. We'll see what happens when we move to adult foods.

(Note: LOL - the Dck Van Patten dog foods gets edited by the censorbot!)


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## LabLady101

I just want to point out that, while a good place to look up the ingredients list of different foods, the dogfoodanalysis website is just one person's opinion and should be taken as such. The true rating of a food is how well or how poorly your individual dog does on it- regardless of what others say about it. For example, in this person's opinion NutriSource only gets 2 "stars". However, my dogs (and many dogs actually) have done EXTREMELY well on this food and I am likely to give it 5 "stars" and for different reasons than this person or that- see what I mean? He/She also inaccurately states that wheat is the number one food allergy for dogs. (FYI, the top food allergies are soy and beef). Also, while Pro Plan is rated as a 1 "star" food by this person, put into practice it's likely the #1 food fed by Labrador professionals in both show and field- and trust me, it's not economical to feed a food that doesn't work no matter how many kickbacks someone might receive. Don't get me wrong, it's great to educate yourself a bit in nutrition in order to make an informed decision. But, I only take websites like this with a grain of salt.

Just my 2c,
Darcy


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## tsteele93

Darcy,

I tend to agree with you that the author of the dogfoodanalysis site puts too much emphasis on wheat allergies. From the information I have read, probably somewhere around 10% of dogs have food allergies. Even if a large portion of those were wheat-related, that would mean that well over 90% of dogs could tolerate wheat just fine.

That said, I also think there are plenty of good reasons to try and find foods that don't have heavy amounts of corn and wheat in them since there are better options.

I had a pom that lived 13+ years on JUNK. I have no idea if his health would have been better had I gotten him better food, or if he would have lived longer. Ignorance was bliss. Now I know a little more about dog food and figure, with so many options, why not try to find a premium food that my dog likes and does well with?

I would note that the Nutrisource that is listed on his two star page also has menadione which is controversial. 

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

I don't know what to tell you about ProPlan, but it has lots of reasons that it doesn't look great:

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=242&cat=7

"poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, corn bran"

There aren't a lot of good quality products in that list and those are items 4-9 on the ingredient list. So you can take it with a grain of salt, and I suspect dogs can handle lower quality ingredients than the human digestive tract, but compared to some of the ingredients in the 4-6 star foods on the site, that doesn't look very appealing.

Again, I fed a Pom for ~13 years on junk. He was fine. I suspect that that dogs are like people when it comes to nutrition - genetics play a large role. You have people who eat horribly and live to an old age. You will have dogs who eat horribly and live to an old age. But if you are just trying to get that extra bit of nutrition as insurance, and you can afford the more expensive foods, I'd try and see if your dogs thrive on a better quality food.

P.S. Here is a decent link to information about wheat allergies in dogs: http://www.wheat-free.org/wheat-allergy-dogs.html


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## LabLady101

By-products, for one, are just fine as a protein source (and are actually a very good, dense source of protein) when used correctly and only as a support protein- not as the main protein source. There is a lot of misinformation and misguided feelings about by-products out there. Many people do not like them because they are not things they would eat themselves, but are things that a dog would actually prefer over muscle meat given the choice. So, the stigma against these ingredients are purely personal.

Also, the menadione issue is a controversial one, but I look at it this way: It is SO FAR down the ingredients list that the actual amount in the food is most likely just trivial- a "trace" some might call it. So, again this stigma is also personal.

There is also nothing wrong with corn when it's used correctly. When I say "correctly", I mean it's used as a quality grain source and not the main ingredient. There is also an inaccurate stigma that corn is a high allergen when, in reality, there are actually very few accurately veternarian-diagnosed cases. I do not give any weight to those cases that are "home" diagnosed. These cases have not been thoroughly tested and it is even more likely that the real cause for the allergy is something else in the food.

Also, most of those "better" quality foods in the 4-6 "star" range have multiple protein sources which is a HUGE red flag for me. I have heard about too many dogs who have been fed these types of foods that come down with protein source allergies. Where do you go when you have used up all your novel protein source options right away? You are definately stuck in a rut that you wouldn't have gotten into if you had stuck with a single protein source food- which is actually highly recommended by top breeders and nutritional veternarians. Protein sources are way bigger allergens than any wheat or corn product out there.

This is why I take websites like that with a grain of salt. It is all purely opinion. Sure, those "better" foods look good on paper, but in reality there are a lot of dogs that do not do well on them. (And when I say "well" I mean not only in good health but also able to maintain the proper coat for their breed. You don't know how many times I have heard people say their Labrador is doing wonderful because their coat is so nice and shiney- which is VERY incorrect!) This website is just another that pushes these "better" foods on uninformed or inaccurately-informed individuals.

I know of a well-respected Labrador breeder who had a wonderful girl that lived until the ripe old age of 16 (which is quite old for a Labrador). She feeds Pro Plan and that is all her girl was ever fed. Are you going to tell her that her girl would have lived longer if she had been fed something else? I'm not going to because, although she's just an acquaintence, I do know her well enough to know she would take high offense at such a remark. She knows what works best for her dogs and she's sticking with it- regardless of what others say about it.

Did it ever occur to anyone that these so-called "better" foods are just catering to a fad? What happens in 5 years when something better comes along or the accurate information that is already out there finally comes to light? All of a sudden foods like Innova, Wellness, etc. will be labeled "crap" or "junk" as well. Then, everyone will be in a frenzy to switch again. As for me, and most top breeders and professionals, I'm going to stick with my tried and true "junk" food, thank you very much.

Darcy

P.S. I do not mean to be offensive to anyone in any way. I am just so tired of all the misinformation that is floating around about this or that ingredient or this or that food. Most of what the dogfoodanalysis site says is purely personal opinion. Also, the foods that are highly pushed there, have pitfalls that no one is willing to reveal.


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## Whitney

I don't think that anyone should get offended. To each their own, right? I always wondered if breeders fed their dogs different diets, or if say... a dog musher (hah, I hope that's the "term" used) used a special type of dry kibble or home made diets. In my opinion, dog food and what you feed your dogs, other pets, and even what you serve your family and friends for dinner could all be very controversial. Everything is controversial now a-days ._.;

Since you mentioned that Lab story; I read in Canadian Geographic that plenty of people from the East Coast were living to be well over 100+ years old. Scientists wondered how this worked, seeing how the typical diet on the East Coast (in Canada) consisted of a lot of fried foods (the obesity % was also the highest in the Maritime provinces compared to other provinces within Canada, however, the % of people to reach the age of 100+ was higher in these provinces), but also... fish -- which we all know is good for our health. They really emphasized that the centenarians were happy, even in their old age and also mentioned that they had good lives despite not always eating a healthy balanced diet. I think that you definitely need a mix of a good diet, and a happy, stress free (or atleast for the most part) life... and that is what allows certain dogs, and people to live longer. Of course, I try to eat healthy, home made foods... and I try to do the same for my dogs, but maybe there is much more than diet that has to do with the health of our canine companions? Such as smoking, for example, and exercise. 

Anywho, just ranting now. It's bed time =D


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## Momof2Pups

Even if someone's pet did well on a food it does not change the cruddy ingredients it was made of.
Foods that are crap are Pedigree, Purina, Ol Roy(probably the worst), Kibbles N Bits, Iams, Beneful, etc. etc.
Here are the ingredients of some of the foods (and descriptions).

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz

(Natura is home to excellent dog foods such as California Natural, Innova/Innova Evo.)

* Purina Dog Chow Complete Nutrition Formula-*
1. _Ground Yellow Corn_-Ground yellow corn is the entire corn kernel, ground or chopped.While the whole corn kernel is nutritious and follows Natura's philosophy of supplying whole grain nutrition, corn is considered to be highly allergenic.
2. _Poultry By-Product Meal_-Poultry by-product meal consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.This is a low-quality, inconsistent ingredient, with multiple organs used, constantly changing proportions, and questionable nutritional value. The origin can be any fowl (turkeys, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc.), instead of a single source, like chicken. Poultry by-product meal is much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal, which Natura uses and which is considered the single-best source of protein.
3. _Animal Fat_-Animal fat is obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial process of rendering or extracting.
Animal fat is a byproduct of meat meal processing. The origin of the contributing animals is never known, and the resulting oil is very low in linoleic acid -- an essential fatty acid that is important for skin and coat health. Natura uses high quality chicken fat which has the highest levels of linoleic acid.
4. _Corn Gluten Meal_- 
Corn gluten meal is the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm. Corn gluten meal is a low ash source of protein and acts as a urine acidifier in HealthWise Cat 'N Kitten formula. Cats vs Dogs: While not the best quality source of protein, the use of corn gluten in small amounts offer preventive health benefits for cats. In addition, unlike dogs, cats do not usually show signs of allergic reactions to corn products. Natura does feel strongly, however, that there is no justification for the use of corn gluten in dog foods and considers it to be only a cheap protein filler when used in this manner.
5. _Brewer's Rice_-Brewer's rice is the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice.
Brewer's rice is a lower quality rice product that is missing many of the nutrients found in ground rice and ground brown rice. (See the descriptions for those ingredients.) Natura uses only whole ingredients, with their nutrients still intact.
6. _Soybean Meal_-Soybean meal is the product obtained by grinding the flakes which remain after removal of most of the oil from soybeans by a solvent or mechanical extraction process.
Soybean meal is a poor quality protein filler. The "Crude Protein" analysis on pet food labels is only a measurement of the amount of nitrogen in a food -- not the quality of the protein. Because of this, pet food companies can use the cheaper by-products of human food production, such as soybean meal, to boost protein numbers.
Meat is always the best source of quality protein. Meat protein is better absorbed and retained and is higher in essential amino acids like methionine, arginine, and taurine. Soybean meal has a biologic value less than 50% of that of chicken meal.
7. _Animal Digest_-Animal digest is a material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind or flavor(s), it must correspond thereto.
Animal digest is a cooked-down broth made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. Any kind of animal can be included: goats, pigs, horses, rats, etc. The animals can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Natura uses only human grade, single-source meats. You will never find Animal Digest in any of our products.
8. _Calcium Carbonate_-Calcium carbonate is a mineral that is true to its name which contains a minimum of 38% calcium.
The calcium in bone provides structural integrity to the skeleton and also contributes to the maintenance of proper blood calcium levels through ongoing resorption and deposition. Circulating calcium has essential roles in nerve impulse transmission, muscle contraction, blood coagulation, the activation of certain enzyme systems, the maintenance of normal cell-membrane permeability and transport, and cardiac function.
9. _Salt_-Salt is a natural mineral, necessary for life and good health.
Most pet food ingredients contain enough sodium to meet a dog or cat's nutritional needs. The sodium in the Natura products comes only from the natural ingredients, with no added salt or sodium products as flavor enhancers.
10. _Lysine_-Lysine is an amino acid released in the hydrolysis of many common proteins.
The inclusion of meat proteins with cereal proteins in a pet food, coupled with properly controlled processing methods, ensures that the ration contains an adequate level of available lysine. In a completely cereal-based dog food, either supplemental lysine or a meat source of lysine must be added.
11. _Choline Chloride_- Choline chloride is a member of the B-complex group of water-soluble vitamins (vitamin B-4). 
It is used as an animal feed additive, especially for poultry and swine, to increase growth, reduce mortality rate, increase feed efficiency, increase egg production, and improve meat quality. It is not a substitute for any other feed supplement and has no direct substitutes itself. 

*Ol' Roy Premium Dog Food-*
1. _Ground Yellow Corn_-Ground yellow corn is the entire corn kernel, ground or chopped. While the whole corn kernel is nutritious and follows Natura's philosophy of supplying whole grain nutrition, corn is considered to be highly allergenic.
2. _Meat Meal/Meat & Bone Meal_-Meat Meal or Meat & Bone Meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, with or without bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Most people associate this ingredient with beef. The truth is that it can come from any mammal: pigs, goats, horses, rabbits, rendered animals from shelters, and dead animals found on roads. Meat meal can contain condemned parts and animals that are rejected for human consumption, including '4D' animals: dead, diseased, dying, or disabled. It can include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed (spoiled) tissue. This inexpensive ingredient found in many commercial pet foods cannot be considered part of a safe, healthy diet for pets.
3. _Ground Whole Wheat_-Ground wheat is the entire wheat kernel, ground or chopped. Ground wheat is a good quality source of carbohydrates. Because it includes the entire wheat kernel, it contributes additional protein, wheat oil, bran, and vitamins and minerals to the diet. This is in contrast to the fractionated wheat ingredients used by some manufacturers such as wheat bran, wheat flour or wheat middlings, which are leeched of much of their nutritional value.


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## Momof2Pups

(continued. . .)

4. _Soybean Meal_-Soybean meal is the product obtained by grinding the flakes which remain after removal of most of the oil from soybeans by a solvent or mechanical extraction process. Soybean meal is a poor quality protein filler. The "Crude Protein" analysis on pet food labels is only a measurement of the amount of nitrogen in a food -- not the quality of the protein. Because of this, pet food companies can use the cheaper by-products of human food production, such as soybean meal, to boost protein numbers. Meat is always the best source of quality protein. Meat protein is better absorbed and retained and is higher in essential amino acids like methionine, arginine, and taurine. Soybean meal has a biologic value less than 50% of that of chicken meal.
5. _Wheat Mill Run/Middlings_-Wheat Mill Run and Middlings consist of coarse and fine particles of wheat bran and fine particles of wheat shorts, wheat germ, wheat flour and offal from the "tail of the mill" Commonly referred to as "floor sweepings", this ingredient is nothing more than inexpensive filler with little or no nutritional value. Natura does not use fractionated grain ingredients or grain byproducts in any of its foods. 
6. _Animal Fat_-Animal fat is obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial process of rendering or extracting. Animal fat is a byproduct of meat meal processing. The origin of the contributing animals is never known, and the resulting oil is very low in linoleic acid -- an essential fatty acid that is important for skin and coat health. Natura uses high quality chicken fat which has the highest levels of linoleic acid.
7. _Chicken Byproduct Meal_-Chicken byproduct meal consists of the dry, ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Chicken byproduct meal is an inconsistent ingredient because of the multiple organs used, their constantly changing proportions, and their questionable nutritional value. Chicken byproduct meal is much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal, which Natura uses and which is considered the single best source of protein.
8. _Rice_-Rice, unless listed as brown rice, is the de-hulled rice kernel, without the bran -- known as white rice. Rice, in its whole form, is a high quality source of carbohydrates, protein and fiber. This is in contrast to fractionated grain ingredients used by some manufacturers such as rice polishings, rice bran, or brewers rice which have been leeched of much of their nutrient value. Natura uses whole rice, which is the most easily digested grain and the least likely to cause allergic reactions. It is an antidiarrheal and helps lower cholesterol. Natura also uses brown rice, which is the same plant with the bran intact.
9. _Animal Digest_- 
Animal digest is a material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind or flavor(s), it must correspond thereto. Animal digest is a cooked-down broth made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. Any kind of animal can be included: goats, pigs, horses, rats, etc. The animals can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Natura uses only human grade, single-source meats. You will never find Animal Digest in any of our products. 
10. _Salt_- Salt is a natural mineral, necessary for life and good health.
Most pet food ingredients contain enough sodium to meet a dog or cat's nutritional needs. The sodium in the Natura products comes only from the natural ingredients, with no added salt or sodium products as flavor enhancers. 

Some other good foods are Eagle Pack, Canidae, and Timberwolf. 

Use the link at the top of the post to look at the ingredients of almost all foods and click on the ingredient to learn more about it.


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## Momof2Pups

Edit- double post.


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## MoreSushi

has anyone heard of Solid Gold? i was talking to a trainer the other say and she swears by it 110%. i've looked it up and few places carry it, not to metion is kinda pricy. how does this compare to the other brands?


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## LabLady101

Momof2Pups said:


> Even if someone's pet did well on a food it does not change the cruddy ingredients it was made of.
> Foods that are crap are Pedigree, Purina, Ol Roy(probably the worst), Kibbles N Bits, Iams, Beneful, etc. etc.


You do realize that this is only your opinion and not fact, right? The "someone's pet" I was referring to was a very well respected breeder's champion show bitch (as well as her other champion show dogs- and she has bred and raised many). 

While I agree that I personally do not like foods such as Pedigree, Ol' Roy, Beneful, Kibbles N Bits, and Dog Chow, I am not so against the better lines such as Iams (yes, Iams! It does at least have a named meat as the first ingredient and is definately a step up from Dog Chow), Eukanuba, Purina ONE, and Pro Plan. Many champions have been raised on these foods. Are you going to tell the professionals that raised and worked with them they are all wrong/ignorant? I think not. These professionals do indeed know what they are feeding and definately know that, no matter how many benefits they may get from a company, it's _never_ economical to feed a food that their dogs do poorly on. Besides that, show and field dogs alike have to be in peak physical condition to perform their best. To be in peak condition, they need the right nutrition. If some of these dogs that are Pro Plan (for example) are so nutritionally deprived (as you seem to think since these foods have such "cruddy ingredients"), how do they continuously and consistantly come out on top of the competition in both venues? I'll let you stew over that one...

Half of what you posted about the ingredients is true and half is purely opinion. The actual definitions (the ones without the opinion-laced trimmings) of the ingredients are fact. However, it is entirely someone's opinion as far as the quality of the ingredient goes. For example, it is entirely someone's opinion that Brewer's Rice is a low quality grain. How do they know it's low quality? Where's it proven? Not from the straight definition. So, this is just something they think and is not proven fact- but yet, it apparently only takes one person or one company to pass along this misinformation and all of a sudden it's supposedly fact to everyone. Another thing, chicken by-product meal is actually way more digestible and is a denser source of protein than chicken meal, and given the choice your dog would most likely choose the by-products over the muscle meat. However, some people cannot stomach the thought of their dog eating things they themselves would not eat, so all of a sudden by-products are bad now too. See what I mean? It is all highly opinion-based. Just because these particular opinions happen to come from Natura, does not make them anymore factual than those that would come from Purina, Iams, etc. They _are_ still trying to sell you on their product.

All I'm going to say is everyone should feed what works best for their dogs- regardless of what someone else's opinion of it. If that's a so-called "higher quality" food, then that's great. If that's a so-called "lower quality" food, then that's great too. As long as you find that "just right" food, it really doesn't matter what quality it is because it's the best quality for your individual dog.


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## Snowshoe

I guess my thoughts on your comments are these: truly, I have no idea what some of the ingredients are listed on a purina bag. They certainly sound very chemical in nature. 

That's why I wouldn't feed those types of food. In the food I feed, I can identify the top 10 ingredients easily as being healthy. This makes me more comfortable. Plus, my dog does really well on what I feed her; her coat is correct for her breed (no, she is not a lab), and plus she really enjoys her food- wolfs it down, if you will. 

If people feed proplan and it does well for them, then that's great. I just don't want to take a chance on my pup. My breeder told me to stay away from Purina, Iams, Beneful, Science Diet, and Nature's Recipe. My breeder, in fact, feeds Eagle Pack (this is not what I feed). 

She has been breeding and showing for well over 20 years, and she knows what her dogs do well on, and what they don't. So, when I picked my food, I followed her advice and my pup has only thrived. 

In my opinion, as long as a dog is healthy that is all that matters. 

(If you are curious, I feed Fromm's White Fish and Potato).


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## workingdog

we mix chicken soup for the dog lovers soul with purina one, before this it was just purina one and we were/are very happy with purina one but i want them to get more meat that's why we mix it with the chicken soup now.Anyway our dogs just shine and the energy they have is something else.Some might disagree with what we feed but it works for us.I think that with all the different dog foods out there, that's all you can do, find something that works for your dogs and go with it. I do cook them up chicken or some other kind of meat, when i can get it on sale.


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## opokki

LabLady101 said:


> I am just so tired of all the misinformation that is floating around about this or that ingredient or this or that food.


I hear ya!


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## NewfCrazy

Although I would never presume to tell someone what they should be feeding their dog, I do have to say that for those of you that feed Iams, you should check out their animal testing procedures and then decide if you'd like to continue to financially support such a company. 

Ok, stepping off the soap box now.

That being said, I fed Ol Roy and Atta Boy (cheap local brand) to my dogs for years with no health problems. When I got my first newf, the breeder had in her contract to feed Pedigree. After that pup died at 19 months due to total kidney failure (birth defect), I started doing research on everything, including food. Even though all my dogs were completely healthy on the Ol Roy, its not a food that I would even consider feeding anymore, nor is the Pedigree. In my opinion, you might as well be giving your dog corn cobs.

My top food choices are Timberwolf Organics and Solid Gold.

If you are feeding a good quality food and having runny poop issues, you are probably feeding too much. Try cutting back on the food before you say that its bad food.


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## LabLady101

NewfCrazy said:


> Although I would never presume to tell someone what they should be feeding their dog, I do have to say that for those of you that feed Iams, you should check out their animal testing procedures and then decide if you'd like to continue to financially support such a company.


I have checked out Iams testing procedures. To tell you the TRUTH (and not just what those awful PETA websites say), it's no where near what I assume you're thinking- you can correct me if I'm wrongfully assuming. I would do some more investigating yourself if all you have read about is websites made or sponsered by PETA (which is actually showcasing events not even Iams related). Remember, PETA's goal is for no one to be able to keep a pet at all, let alone be able to feed it meat. Websites like those I'm assuming you're referring to, are actually very hypocritical of PETA.

To even the playing field, read this about PETA:
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

That website is just the tip of the iceberg of the horrible things PETA has done to animals. PETA should be the last group who should be pointing any animal-cruelty fingers and I, for one, take anything they have to say with a grain of salt.

I also personally wouldn't feed a food that hasn't been tested on and fed to other dogs. I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer my dogs not to be guinea pigs once the food has hit the shelves.

Darcy


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## ilovemychihuahua

I use Pedigree. Is that good?


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## LabLady101

ilovemychihuahua said:


> I use Pedigree. Is that good?


While I personally don't like Pedigree, I wouldn't tell you to switch if your dog is doing well on it. So, in other words, it's only as good as how your dog does on it. It's for you to decide if you're getting the results from the food that you want.

Hope that helps,
Darcy


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## NewfCrazy

I agree that PETA has their own agenda, but the proof of IAMS testing is global and was exposed in the UK before PETA ever did their undercover expose in the US. Although I don't agree with PETA's methods or their philosophy, I think they have done excellent work in exposing things like this. IAMS testing has been documented in various veterinary medical publications, and although they may not have done the testing themselves in every case, they did certainly fund the research. And although PETA is mentioned on this website, it is only to comment on their expose in the US.

Here's an listing of some the experiments funded by IAMS as summarized by Uncaged, a UK animal rights organization (www.uncaged.co.uk):

28 CATS' BELLIES WERE CUT TO SEE THE EFFECT OF FEEDING THEM FIBRE, THEN THE CATS WERE KILLED
University of Nebraska-Lincoln and The Iams Company. (AR Bueno, GD Sunvold & GA Reinhart (both IAMS CO.) et al., "Feline colonic microbes and fatty acid transport: effects of feeding cellulose, beet pulp and pectin/gum arabic fibers", Nutrition Research, Vol 20, No.9: 1319-1328 (2000).) 

24 YOUNG DOGS WERE INTENTIONALLY PUT INTO KIDNEY FAILURE; SUBJECTED TO INVASIVE EXPERIMENTATION, THEN KILLED
University of Georgia and The Iams Company. (JV White, DA Hirakawa (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effect of dietary protein on functional, morphologic, and histologic changes of the kidney during compensatory renal growth in dogs", Am J Vet Res, Vol 52, No.8, August 1991: 1357-1365.) 

31 DOGS' KIDNEYS WERE REMOVED TO INCREASE THE RISK OF KIDNEY DISEASE, THEN THEY WERE KILLED AND DISSECTED
University of Georgia and The Iams Company. (Delmar R Finco, Daniel P Carey (IAMS CO.), Diane A Hirakawa (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effects of aging and dietary protein intake on uninephrectomized geriatric dogs", Am J vet Res, Vol 55, No.9, September 1994: 1282-1290.) 

BONES IN 18 DOGS' FRONT AND BACK LEGS WERE CUT OUT AND STRESSED UNTIL THEY BROKE
University of Wisconsin and The Iams Company. (Thomas D Crenshaw, Allan J Lepine (IAMS CO.) et al., "Nutritional Effects on Bone Strength in the Growing Canine", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 29-40.) 

10 DOGS WERE KILLED TO STUDY THE EFFECT OF FIBER IN DIETS
Mississippi State University and The Iams Company. (Randal K Buddington, Greg D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Influence of fermentable fiber on small intestinal dimensions and transport of glucose and proline in dogs", AJVR, Vol 60, No.3, March 1999: 354-358.) 

18 MALE PUPPIES' KIDNEYS WERE CHEMICALLY DAMAGED; EXPERIMENTAL DIETS WERE FED; TUBES WERE INSERTED IN THEIR PENISES, THEN THE PUPPIES WERE KILLED
Colorado State University and The Iams Company. (Gregory F Grauer, Gregory A Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effects of dietary n-3 fatty acid supplementation versus thromboxane synthetase inhibition on gentamicin-induced nephrotoxicosis in healthy male dogs", AJVR, Vol 57, No.6, June 1996: 948-956.) 

8 DOGS' KIDNEYS WERE REMOVED TO STUDY THE EFFECT OF PROTEIN ON RECOVERY FROM KIDNEY REMOVAL
University of Georgia and The Iams Company. (JV White, DA Hirakawa (IAMS CO.) et al., "High dietary protein intake does not accelerate development of renal lesions during recovery from renal mass reduction in dogs", ACVIM Abstracts, Vol 3 No 2, p.131) 

28 CATS WERE SURGICALLY FORCED INTO KIDNEY FAILURE AND EITHER DIED DURING THE EXPERIMENT OR WERE KILLED TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF PROTEIN
University of Georgia and The Iams Company. Delmar R Finco, Gregory D. Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Influence of Protein and Energy in Cats with Renal Failure", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 413-424.) 

15 DOGS' BELLIES WERE CUT OPEN; TUBES WERE ATTACHED TO THEIR INTESTINES, THE CONTENTS OF WHICH WERE PUMPED OUT EVERY 10 MINUTES FOR TWO HOURS, THEN THE DOGS WERE KILLED
University of Nebraska-Lincoln and The Iams Company. (JE Hallman, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Colonic mucosal tissue energetics and electrolyte transport in dogs fed cellulose, beet pulp or pectin/gum arabic as their primary fiber source", Nutrition Research, Vol 16, No.2: 303-313 (1996).) 

16 DOGS' BELLIES WERE CUT OPEN AND PARTS OF THEIR INTESTINES TAKEN
University of Alberta and The Iams Company. (Stefan P Massimino, Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.), Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Fermentable Dietary Fiber Increases GLP-1 Secretion and Improves Glucose Homeostasis Despite Increased Glucose Transport Capacity in Healthy Dogs", Journal of the American Society for Nutritional Sciences: 1786-1793 (1998).) 

HEALTHY PUPPIES, CHICKS, AND RATS HAD BONE AND CARTILAGE REMOVED TO STUDY BONE AND JOINT DEVELOPMENT
Purdue University and The Iams Company. (Bruce A Watkins, Allan J Lepine (IAMS CO.), C. Gregory Aldrich (IAMS CO.), Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.), et al., "Relationships of Fat Quality and Antioxidants in Bone and Cartilage", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 505-514.) 

INVASIVE PROCEDURES WERE USED TO STUDY BACTERIA IN 16 DOGS' INTESTINES
Texas A&M University and The Iams Company. (MD Willard, G Reinhart (IAMS CO.), et al., "Effects of dietary supplementation of fructo-oligosaccharides on small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in dogs", Am J Vet Res, Vol 55, No.5, May 1994: 654-659.) 

24 CATS HAD THEIR FEMALE ORGANS AND PARTS OF THEIR LIVERS REMOVED; WERE MADE OBESE, THEN WERE STARVED
University of Kentucky and The Iams Company. (Wissam H Ibrahim, Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effect of dietary protein quality and fatty acid composition on plasma lipoprotein concentrations and hepatic triglyceride fatty acid synthesis in obese cats undergoing rapid weight loss", AJVR, Vol 61, No.5, May 2000: 566-572.) 

56 DOGS HAD THEIR FEMALE ORGANS REMOVED TO STUDY BETA CAROTENE
Washington State University and The Iams Company. (BC Weng, AJ Lepine (IAMS CO.), et al., "Beta-Carotene uptake and changes in ovarian steroids and uterine proteins during the estrous cycle in the canine", J. Anim. Sci. 2000. 78:1284-1290.) 

16 DOGS' BELLIES WERE REPEATEDLY CUT TO TAKE PARTS OF THEIR INTESTINES
Texas A&M and The Iams Company. (MD Willard, DP Carey (IAMS CO.), GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Characterization of naturally developing small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in 16 German Shepherd Dogs", JAVMA, Vol 204, No. 8, April 15, 1994: 1201-1206.) 

6 DOGS HAD TUBES IMPLANTED INTO THEIR INTESTINES AND FLUID DRAINED REPEATEDLY TO STUDY CEREAL FLOURS
University of Illinois and The Iams Company. (SM Murray, GD Sunvold (IAMS CO.), GA Reinhart (IAMS CO) et al., "Evaluation of Selected High-Starch Flours as Ingredients in Canine Diets", J. Anim. Sci. 1999. 77:2180-2186.) 

30 DOGS WERE WOUNDED AND PATCHES OF SKIN CONTAINING THE WOUNDS REMOVED TO STUDY WOUND-HEALING
Auburn University and The Iams Company. (Mark A Mooney, Gregory A Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Evaluation of the effects of omega-3 fatty acid-containing diets on the inflammatory stage of wound-healing in dogs", AJVR, Vol 59, No. 7, July 1998: 859-863.) 

5 DOGS' BELLIES WERE CUT OPEN AND TUBES WERE INSERTED FROM THEIR INTESTINES TO THE OUTSIDE OF THEIR BODIES TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF FIBER
University of Illinois and The Iams Company. (HE Muir, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Nutrient Digestion by Ileal Cannulated Dogs as Affected by Dietary Fibers with Various Fermentation Characteristics", J. Anim. Sci. 1996. 74: 1641-1648.) 

PARTS OF 28 DOGS' LARGE INTESTINES WERE REMOVED TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF FIBER
University of Missouri and The Iams Company. (MD Howard, GD Sunvold (IAMS CO.), GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al, "Dietary fiber sources alter colonic blood flow and epithelial cell proliferation of dogs", J. Anim. Sci. 1997. 74(Suppl. 1).) 

PARTS OF 16 DOGS' INTESTINES AND IMMUNE SYSTEM WERE CUT OUT TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF FIBER
University of Alberta and The Iams Company. (Catherine J Field, Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.), Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Interaction of Fiber Fermentation and Immunology of the Gastrointestinal Tract", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 523-530) 

5 DOGS HAD TISSUE FROM LARGE AND SMALL INTESTINES REMOVED TO STUDY INTESTINAL TRACT NEEDS
University of Illinois and The Iams Company. (James K Drackley, Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al, "Energetic Substrates for Intestinal Cells", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 463-472.) 

8 HEALTHY DOGS HAD TUBES INSERTED THROUGH THEIR CHESTS TO STUDY FAT ABSORPTION
The Ohio State University and The Iams Company. (Jennifer D Newton, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.), et al., "Transport Pathways of Enterally Administered Medium-Chain Triglycerides in Dogs", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 143-152.) 

SECTIONS OF 36 DOGS' SKINS WERE CUT OUT TO STUDY EFFECTS OF DIET ON FUR
Texas A&M and The Iams Company. (Kelly M Credille, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.), GM Davenport (IAMS CO.) et al., "The Role of Nutrition on the Canine Hair Follicle: A Preliminary Report", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 37-53.) 

14 PUPPIES WERE INJECTED WITH SUBSTANCES THAT GAVE THEM LIFE-LONG ALLERGIES, MADE THEM SICK, AND GAVE THEM DIARRHOEA
University of Calgary and The Iams Company. (Merle E Olson, Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.) et al., "Hypersensitivity Reactions to Dietary Antigens in Atopic Dogs", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 69-77.)


----------



## LabLady101

If animals have died in past Iams research it is regrettable, but hardly for nothing. Any research Iams has conducted has gone to give our pets a happier, healthier, longer life. Where do you think all these supposed "higher" quality food manufacturers have gotten the research to develop their formulas? I can tell you it wasn't by doing their own research. No, they let the bigger companies (i.e. Purina and Iams) conduct the research while they sit back and wait for the results, and then they have the audacity to point fingers at Purina and Iams. Must be nice to have that wall of safety. I think it is all very hypocrital- especially PETA (of all organizations) pointing fingers at Iams. PETA kills thousands of animals each year, and they do it for nothing- and it's on the tax payers tab to boot!!!

This Uncaged organization is the UK version of PETA. An organization I'm also likely to take with a grain of salt. If you want to believe in these types of things, that's fine, you're entitled to your beliefs- but then you might has well sign up for membership at the next PETA rally to support those beliefs.

Also, those statistics are grossly misrepresented. A well respected breeder I know was investigating these very same claims. She contacted the company themselves. This is the response she got:

"Thank you very much for taking the time to forward the link to this horrible website. It positively sickens me, and is a gross misrepresentation of The Iams Company and the research we have conducted! We sincerely appreciate loyal customers like you who make the effort to investigate the truth about these horrible accusations. Uncaged Campaigns is an animal rights group in the UK that has connections with a tabloid in London that "broke" this story on Sunday.

Here is our official response:
An article published by a British tabloid newspaper (Sunday Express, "Pet Food Cruelty," May 27) contained inaccurate and misleading information about Iams nutritional studies. The Iams Company is appalled by these false allegations of animal cruelty. More than two years ago - well before our acquisition by Procter & Gamble (P&G) - The Iams Company independently made a firm and binding decision that we would not consider or sponsor any studies that required the euthanasia of dogs and cats. We determined that we could continue to make crucial health advancements without such studies because certain key findings had already been made, and new alternative research methods had been developed (for example, advances in MRI technology can now be used to examine the condition of bones and joints without using invasive procedures). 

Early in our efforts to develop nutritional innovations, we sponsored university and veterinary school research in North America that identified important questions. The answers to those questions could potentially save and enhance the lives of millions of dogs and cats, but could only be determined through studies requiring euthanasia. We exhausted all other alternatives and made choiceful decisions in our research methodology. In those few instances, researchers used the minimum number of animals possible, and the results have benefited dogs and cats world-wide. For example, our studies of canine and feline kidney disease - a chronic and fatal illness affecting millions of pets - resulted in new renal diets that make a significant difference in the lives of dogs and cats with chronic renal failure. Our research into healthy skeletal development has made a big difference for large breed dogs, where painful and debilitating developmental bone problems can occur in up to 40% of puppies. Despite these facts, the story in the Sunday Express portrayed our published research findings in a sensational, negative, and misleading way.

The article repeatedly described ordinary veterinary health practices in unnecessarily horrific terms. For example:
* A skin biopsy - which is a common diagnostic test in both human and veterinary medicine - was described in the article as "giving the animal chest wounds."
* Giving an animal a routine vaccination was described as "injecting with live virus vaccines."

Clearly, this type of language is deceptive and counterproductive. Other leading pet food companies sponsor or have sponsored similar studies to those undertaken by our company. Unlike most of our competitors, Iams openly presents and publishes our findings (for example, veterinary conferences, peer-reviewed veterinary journals) so that other researchers can help improve the health and well-being of dogs and cats, without repeating research projects.

This raises an important question: If our research has been presented, published and part of public record for more than ten years - and if other leading pet food companies sponsor similar studies -- why was The Iams Company singled out now? 

To answer that question, it is important to consider the source of the allegations: This story appears to have been sparked by Uncaged Campaigns, a UK-based animal activist organization that has long called for boycotts of P&G products.

To sum up, our research efforts have always been guided by a strict code of ethics that exceeds the highest standards established by the Animal Welfare Act of the US and the US Department of Agriculture. Today, and in the past, all of our feeding studies have been required to meet very specific criteria, namely:
* The care of animals is of paramount importance, and animal well-being is always our top priority.
* The results must help veterinarians and pet owners nutritionally manage important pet health conditions and give real benefits to dogs and cats world-wide.
* The studies must be unique, relevant, and truly pioneering - in other words, no existing research could answer the questions raised.

At Iams, we stand behind our research, and are proud of our 55-year track record of enhancing the well-being of dogs and cats by providing world-class quality foods. That is our mission, one that we live by every day in every corner of the company, starting with our Research and Development.
The negative Iams information that is flowing through the Internet right now is a distorted view of our research. Unfortunately, this type of sensationalism is at the expense of a company made up of people that are passionate about their dogs and cats, as well as their company's mission (to enhance the well being of dogs and cats by providing world-class, quality foods). 

I wish I could share with you all the thousands of contacts we've had from dog and cat owners reporting on the impact our foods have had on their pets' health. My own dog has experienced terrible allergies that were greatly soothed by feeding her a Eukanuba Veterinary Diet. We are truly grateful for the long-term loyalty you have shown Iams. We hope that we have been helpful in addressing your concerns, but if you have additional questions, please call us at ***-***-**** or contact us anytime through our "Talk to Us" page at www.iams.com .

Sincerely,
Bev, Consumer Relations
The Iams Company"

Now, I know you're likely to say, "Oh, but you can't trust what the company says" and you'd be right in most cases. However, in this particular case, I'm WAY more inclined to believe the company over radical terrorist groups like PETA and Uncaged.

Here's another website to look over:
http://www.iamstruth.com- This has detailed reports of all ASPCA inspections that have been conducted at Iams research facilities.

Darcy


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## NewfCrazy

I would imagine that we could each list many websites that support our personal views on the matter. I've looked at the Iams site - and read each and every site visit report listed on the ASPCA's website as well. I would expect each person to do their own research and decide for themselves what they do or do not believe. And you are right, I wouldn't take anything Iams has to say on the matter as gospel - after all, who has the most incentive to lie?  Organizations like Uncaged will always sensationalize (its how they get the public to take notice), and companies like Iams will always try to whitewash the facts to protect their profits. It's a fact of life. 

I personally don't see the need for any kind of invasive animal testing by dog food companies. Any possible test they could want has already been done many times over and if for some strange reason it hasn't, it could surely be done in non-invasive ways. 

Everyone has to decide for themselves what they can or cannot condone. I cannot condone invasive experimentation on animals for non-medical purposes and therefore choose not to support companies that practice it.


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## LabLady101

NewfCrazy said:


> I would imagine that we could each list many websites that support our personal views on the matter. I've looked at the Iams site - and read each and every site visit report listed on the ASPCA's website as well. I would expect each person to do their own research and decide for themselves what they do or do not believe. And you are right, I wouldn't take anything Iams has to say on the matter as gospel - after all, who has the most incentive to lie?  Organizations like Uncaged will always sensationalize (its how they get the public to take notice), and companies like Iams will always try to whitewash the facts to protect their profits. It's a fact of life.
> 
> I personally don't see the need for any kind of invasive animal testing by dog food companies. Any possible test they could want has already been done many times over and if for some strange reason it hasn't, it could surely be done in non-invasive ways.
> 
> Everyone has to decide for themselves what they can or cannot condone. I cannot condone invasive experimentation on animals for non-medical purposes and therefore choose not to support companies that practice it.


That's fine, but I don't think you get it still. Iams NO LONGER uses invasive procedures! The only kind of tests that are conducted at Iams facilities these days are feeding tests and a possible skin biopsy or blood test. All other non-invasive tests are things such as X-rays and MRIs. Those animals live better than my dogs with heated floors and the works! And then, they are adopted out or go home to their owners (yes, that's right, some owners actually volunteer their animals for Iams tests. No, it doesn't make them bad owners. If your dog or cat has a mysterious illness and Iams could find possibly find a cure with a few blood tests, skin biopsies, and an MRI or two, wouldn't you do it- especially when it could help other animals as well?) after the tests to live full, happy lives. 

And how is Iams protecting their profits? By admitting that years ago they actually did do invasive testing? "Whitewashing the facts to protect their profits" implies that they are lying and hiding things. Far as I can tell, they've been quite honest about their activities- even going as far as publishing their findings in public records. So, what's to whitewash?

Who has the most incentive to lie? Well, that's easy...PETA and Uncaged! Why? Because what they are STILL doing for nothing (killing animals), Iams actually did years ago (and has since ceased) to greatly advance veterinarian medicine. However, if they are pointing the finger at Iams and Iams is under the public's spotlight, the public isn't watching the horrible (and quite illegal) activities that are being performed by these organizations. It's the old slip of the hand trick, and both PETA and Uncaged have managed quite successfully to pull the wool over the people's eyes. They are not just sensationalists. It would be nice if that's all they were. They would be harmless then and I'd probably be more sympathetic to their cause. However, the truth is they are terrorists and murderers!! Doesn't anyone get that? Or have they suceeded in pulling the wool over the eyes of everyone here but me? I don't know how anyone can side with these criminals!

Non-medical purposes, huh? What do you think veterinarian medicine is?? Are you that blind that you don't consider your veterinarian a doctor who practices in a medical field? What, all of sudden because it's for the health of dogs and cats, it's non-medical purposes? I think you really need to rethink this...


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## Booga

When I first adopted my dog, he was fed cheap grocery store food, so he had hot spots. I also think the previous owner fed him junk food.
I friend of mine recommended Breeder's Choice Food. I get the Lamb formula for skin and coat. He's doing much better. Sometimes I'll mix in some vegetables or plain chicken or beef or even broiled fish. He loves everything.


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## NewfCrazy

By non-medical testing, I was referring to the federal government's requirement that all new human drugs be tested according to their protocols, which include animal experimentation. Although I don't agree with that either, that is a whole other subject.

Dog food manufacturer's, cosmetic companies and household product companies have no need to conduct invasive experiments on animals. And if you don't consider a biopsy to be invasive, then I would say you've never had one done.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and if you choose to believe that Iams is not conducting invasive testing, then that's certainly your right. I hope that you will afford me the same courtesy.


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## LabLady101

NewfCrazy said:


> By non-medical testing, I was referring to the federal government's requirement that all new human drugs be tested according to their protocols, which include animal experimentation. Although I don't agree with that either, that is a whole other subject.
> 
> Dog food manufacturer's, cosmetic companies and household product companies have no need to conduct invasive experiments on animals. And if you don't consider a biopsy to be invasive, then I would say you've never had one done.
> 
> You are certainly entitled to your opinion and if you choose to believe that Iams is not conducting invasive testing, then that's certainly your right. I hope that you will afford me the same courtesy.


If you'd care to stop trying to find some false angle in an attempt to enable further finger pointing at Iams, I'd be happy to let this go and afford you the same courtesy. However, it just seems no matter how much you claim that people are entitled to their own opinion, you keep trying to grasp for straws. For example, your post implied that Iams doesn't have to follow any protocols and, therefore, can do anything it wants. This is false. If you think that Iams doesn't have strict protocols they have to follow, not to mention lots of "red tape" to even get approval for a test, you are sadly mistaken. Most times, it is A LOT easier to get approval for new human drug testing than it is for Iams to get approval for even a feeding test. Whether you choose to believe that or not, it is the truth. Also, by attempting to discredit my knowledge of biopsies, you have fallen into further fallacy. If you have nothing else but further false statements to make, you might as well just keep them to yourself.


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## NewfCrazy

As I said, you are certainly entititled to your opinion. I'm sorry that you seem to be so intolerant of differing viewpoints. I hope that others will choose to do their own research and come to their own conclusions.


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## LabLady101

NewfCrazy said:


> As I said, you are certainly entititled to your opinion. I'm sorry that you seem to be so intolerant of differing viewpoints. I hope that others will choose to do their own research and come to their own conclusions.


I also hope others to do their own research and come to their own conclusion. I'm sorry you think that I'm so intolerant of differing viewpoints. I am not. Actually, I just cannot stand it when misinformation (especially coming from terrorists groups like PETA & Uncaged who should do the least amount of talking but often do the most) is passed along as fact. It's like the pot calling the kettle black when in fact the kettle is silver- a bit of a tarnished silver, but still silver. If these claims were to come from a more reliable and reputable source, I might give more weight to them and not only understand your viewpoint but take the same. However, they do not come from reputable sources. If a reputable source is a group that proceeds to burn a corpse at the stake on the steps of a courthouse in an attempt to prove "meat is murder", then I really don't know and am actually very frightened to think of what this country (and the world for that matter) is coming to. Meat is murder...really?...well, seems to me they are doing exactly what they are opposing. If you can believe people who are the "do as I say, not as I do" type, then more power to ya! I just can't. But, hey, I wish you luck with that!


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## ilovemychihuahua

My Dog eats Kibbles 'n Bits, is that ok?


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## workingdog

Nooooooooooooooooooooo


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## ilovemychihuahua

*So....*



workingdog said:


> Nooooooooooooooooooooo


does nooooooooooooooo mean it's good or bad?


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## workingdog

My opinion is it is BAD. To each his/her own, not a food i would feed.


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## Kodi

I also heartily disagree with purina being horrible, Its got meat as the first ingrediant and uses the same products such as corn meal and rice glutons that 90% of dog foods use. My boys have flourished on purina one lamb and rice. Healthy wieght, great coats, regular stools and healthy joints have all resulted in my feeding purina. As long as your not feeding a food thats ALL filler I dont think it should elicit *GASPS*. Try not to be such a dog foood nazi. Also I worked in a vets office and know from experience if ALL you feed is wet food, by the time your dogs 8 its teeth will be falling right out of its head.




Alpha said:


> *gasp* Iams and Purina are just about the worst foods out there! Maybe Kibbles and Bits is worse, but they're all near the end of the road!
> 
> 
> 
> I think the best food for dogs, is homemade meals. A proper variety, of organs, muscle, fat, bone, vegetables etc, is what's best for dogs.
> 
> But for many of us, including me , homemade is to time consuming. I barely cook for myself.
> 
> Canned is much better than kibble as well. Kibble is obviously dry, and a dog must drink much more water to digest it. The kibble absorbs all of the water in their stomach, and three small kibble can turn into a handful once it's absorbed to it's full capacity.
> 
> I'm with Prophet, I love *Eagle Pack*.
> 
> I've fed:
> 
> *Iams*- A few years ago. Didn't know than, but the reasons for my dogs shiny coat and firm poops were because there are chemicals put directly into the food for those exact purposes. Most people will look at a dogs coat, and stools to determine if a food is good. Iams people know this, and there's a chemical in the foods for that exact reason. I've heard people say, "I've been feeding my dog, so and so, then we switched to Iams and they firmed right up!"... There is a reason and it's NOT because Iams is a good food. It's one of the worst out there.
> 
> *Eukanuba*- I saw a commercial, saying that it contained a chemical called DHB, which enhances brain growth. It's true, but I'd rather my dog be all around healthy, than just have a big brain  My girl was overweight, even though she was eating less than the required amounts.
> 
> *Wellness*- A higher end brand, when I became more educated about dog food. Although with it's factories changes to go maintstream, to grocery stores and enhance their profit, their formula has suffered.
> 
> So I switched to Eagle Pack, I'd prefer to feed Solid Gold or Innova, but neither are available to me. But Eagle Pack is a top of the line food as well.
> 
> I really like the fact that their customer service is great. Before switching I spoke to a nutrionist to decide what forumal to feed, and asked what the benefits of feeding canned to kibble were.
> 
> So now my guys are on a mixed diet, of canned, for the moisture, and raw protein and the kibble for their teeth.
> 
> Dave- Iams and Purina are horrible dog foods. Full of fillers and chemicals and a few months ago a few loads were recalled in my town because a dog died of salmonella poisoning. There are plenty more brands that aren't too expensive and you'll see a great change in your dogs health


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## workingdog

Kodi said:


> I also heartily disagree with purina being horrible, Its got meat as the first ingrediant and uses the same products such as corn meal and rice glutons that 90% of dog foods use. My boys have flourished on purina one lamb and rice. Healthy wieght, great coats, regular stools and healthy joints have all resulted in my feeding purina. As long as your not feeding a food thats ALL filler I dont think it should elicit *GASPS*. Try not to be such a dog foood nazi. Also I worked in a vets office and know from experience if ALL you feed is wet food, by the time your dogs 8 its teeth will be falling right out of its head.


Im not sure who you are referring to, as a dog food nazi but i do know that Kibble and Bits is an awful dog food. I like Purina One i have been feeding it for many, many years with great results. I now mix it with Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul and our dogs are doing great.I all so love pro Plan. I would never tell anyone unless asked, and i was, if a dog food was good or not(of corse JMO)


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## LabLady101

workingdog- I can't speak for Kodi but, from my understanding, I don't think he/she was referring to your post about Kibbles'n'Bits. (Just FYI, IMO I don't like Kibbles'n'Bits either, but I do think Purina ONE and Pro Plan are decent foods.)


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## cujo3269

I would love to feed my beloved cujo a steady diet of meat (raw or cooked), veggies and fruit, but man is that expensive. So i use purina everything. plus he usually gets some of what i eat.


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## eilenej1

Alpha said:


> I won't argue with you tirluc, I've spoken to many nutrionists, and other than homemade meals, canned is always mentioned as the way to go.


I still don't know very much about dog nutrition, since I've only had a dog for a couple of weeks now. But I do know that I fed my cats dry food for 12+ years and one of them was just diagnosed with diabetes. Many people chalk it up to the high carb diet of most dry foods. He was also a bit overweight for most of his adult life.

So, all of the cats are receiving more and more canned until they are about 75% canned and 25% dry. The diabetic cat is seperated and is on Inova EVO dry because he won't eat canned. This Inova EVO is a very low carb food - even lower than the Purina DM dry that most pets are placed on when they are diagnosed.

With this philosophy in mind, I decided that my puppy will be a mix of dry and canned too. I'm not buying the super premium $$$ foods for him and some would probably say I'm feeding him cr*p. But his Nutro Max seems to be working well, so I'll most likely stay with it. It's at least a LOT better than some of the foods I've fed my cats and they are all 10+ years old.

So basically, I think that certain high $$$ foods are worth it in select cases. But I also feel that the less expensive foods are just fine as long as the pet's health is good.


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## RobDar

there is no "BEST" dog food...
there are too many variables...
dog breed, dog size, dog health, dog exercise, dog living environment, dog's owners budget, dog food availability,...there just is not one answer to this question...
all there is is what you feel is the best food for your dog and no one can really answer that but you.
I know 14 year old dog's who have been perfectly happy on cheap junk foods like Country Squire for 6 dollars per 40 lbs at Menards...and dogs on real expensive foods and raw diets that are sick and have health issues...so who is to say for sure...
our vet says that any large scale commerically available food is designed to meet a dogs dietary requirements.

We feed Natures Variety...upper end of the mid scale foods...I do not like alot a grain in my dog foods and prefer as good of a quality as the rescue can afford...but that is me...
the underlying secondary reason for the Natures Variety is that is does not seem to give the Coonhounds gas like some others...
and trust me...Coonhound Gas is some of the worst there is...peel the paint of the walls!

Our personal rule is...
if in the top ten ingredients there is something you need a chemical engineer to explain to you, you cannot pronounce, or it does not sound like something you would feed your child...do not feed it to your dog.


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## BellaDog

I have a 8 month rotti, i know diffrent foods may work best for diffrent dogs, but does anyone have a rotti on a food that works well for that breed?


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## compaq__

There may not be a best dog food but there are junk dog foods. If the first ingredient or two is CORN or something other than a meat, they are skimping on quality to save cost. Also, take note if it is BY-PRODUCT meal. For instance, if it is Chicken BY PRODUCT MEAL, it is everything from legs, wings, other organs etc all ground up and put in your dogs food.


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## escapeny

*My take on dog food*

I've owned an Akita for 11 years and now a Doberman for the last five years. I must say that both were full-bred from top kennels, which may be the reason they have been blessed with good health. My Akita ate Solid Gold Millenium and my Dobe eats EVO (Innova). Both were given joint supplements when they reached 8 years old to prevent arthritis and my Dobe also gets a Fish Oil Supplement. I've only used canned food by Merrick and only as an occasional treat. Both dogs had/have beautiful coats, no skin problems, ear problems or even bad breath. I feel that the extra money I spend on dog food is better spent than frequent visits to the vet for one ailment or another. My roommate jokes that I'm eating PB&J while my Dobe is eating steak! I have a book, "The Holistic Dog Book" by Denise Flaim and when you find out what really goes into commercial dog food, you will want to run the other way!

In response to the person who mentioned a dog who died from salmonella poisoning, this book says that dogs are not susceptible to the E-coli virus or salmonella which is why it is alright to feed dogs raw food. 

Anyway, I would be glad to talk about this further. I'm a new member.


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## poodleholic

Dave|Xoxide said:


> What do you guys think is the *best* dog food? Typically I stick with the big name brand stuff, Iams and Purina One Lamb and Rice. Those of you that have experimented with the natural / organic stuff, can you really see a difference in your dog(s), would you recommend it. Hopefully we can spark some good debate. If we come up with handful of really popular ones we can put together a poll as well.
> 
> Let's here everyone's recommendations for the Best Dog Food!


Uh oh, Iams and Purina are two (of many) that I avoid! (Sorry)

I feed Innova EVO and Natural Balance Venison. In addition, I poach fresh, ground meats (buffalo, lamb, sirloin), which I add to brown rice, and provide spinach, kale, green beans, asparagus, sweet potato. They also get live cutured yogurt, hard boiled eggs (an omlette with cheese on the weekend), cottage cheese, apple, pear, other fruits in season (they love watermelon), in moderation, of course. They also are given green tripe (yuk). 

For treats, their favorite is dehydrated lamb lung. 

I keep the phone book hidden because for sure they'd be calling for PIZZA! <BG>


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## Captbob

__________________________
This is a dog food rating system created to help people find a quality food. This is not concrete but to be used as a guide. This was created by Fredalina of the GDR.


Giving Dry Dog Food a Grade: 
Start with a grade of 100: 

For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points 


For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points 

If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points

For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source, subtract 5 points 

If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer’s rice", "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points


If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points 

If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points

If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points 

If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points

If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 2 points 

If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn’t allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points 

If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn’t allergic to beef), subtract 1 point

If it contains salt, subtract 1 point 

Extra Credit: 

If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points 


If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, add 5 points 

If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points 

If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points 

If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points

If the food contains barley, add 2 points 

If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points 

If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point 

If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point 

For every different specific animal protein source (other than the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "turkey" as 2 different sources), add 1 point


If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free, add 1 point



94-100+ = A
86-93 = B
78-85 = C
70-77 = D
<70 = F

Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+

Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F

Canidae / Score 112 A+

Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F

Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B

Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A

Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+

Natural Balance Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+

Hund-n-Flocken Adult Pet (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B

Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D

Innova Pet / Score 114 A+

Innova Evo / Score 114 A+

Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+

Merrick Grammy Pot Pie/ Score 118 A+

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B

Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F

ProPlan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+

Purina Beneful / Score 17 F

Purina Pet / Score 62 F

Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F

Royal Canin BullPet / Score 100 A+

Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+

Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A

Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F


----------



## luvntzus

I've researched foods for a few years and tried a lot of different ones. I like the ingredients and have had the best results with Eagle Pack Holistic and Timberwolf Organics. 

I believe in rotating foods so the dog isn't continually exposed to the same food- especially the protein source. I also think it's important to add some canned or fresh meat with the kibble- it makes it more palatable and is closer to what a dog should really be eating. Feeding kibble mixed with some canned seems to be the best balance between cost effectiveness and good nutrition. So right now I'm feeding Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken Meal & Rice kibble with Innova EVO chicken + turkey canned. After that I'm going to switch over to Timberwolf Organics Wild and Natural kibble (chicken based, grain free) with Innova EVO canned and rotate that with Timberwolf Organics Wilderness Elk and Innova EVO venison canned.


----------



## MelissaDiscerningDog

Alpha said:


> Also, I'm sure, if I fed them just canned, they would have tummy problems from eating too fast. The kibble does slow them down tremendously.


I'm surprised you haven't tried all natural dog food if your concerned about your pet's tummy. It's very hard for me to get Dog food across the border but if your local to my area I highly suggest you give this food a try...

http://www.thediscerningdog.ca/GO!_Dog_Food.php

Heavily processed food is no good for humans... imo... why should it be any different for anybody else.


----------



## Elijah

luvntzus said:


> I've researched foods for a few years and tried a lot of different ones. I like the ingredients and have had the best results with Eagle Pack Holistic and Timberwolf Organics.
> 
> I believe in rotating foods so the dog isn't continually exposed to the same food- especially the protein source. I also think it's important to add some canned or fresh meat with the kibble- it makes it more palatable and is closer to what a dog should really be eating. Feeding kibble mixed with some canned seems to be the best balance between cost effectiveness and good nutrition. So right now I'm feeding Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken Meal & Rice kibble with Innova EVO chicken + turkey canned. After that I'm going to switch over to Timberwolf Organics Wild and Natural kibble (chicken based, grain free) with Innova EVO canned and rotate that with Timberwolf Organics Wilderness Elk and Innova EVO venison canned.


Through in some sweet 'taters, yogurt and cottage cheese now and then and he'll be grinning like a mule eating briars.


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## luvntzus

Elijah said:


> Through in some sweet 'taters, yogurt and cottage cheese now and then and he'll be grinning like a mule eating briars.


Well I didn't include _everything_ I feed. I was trying to keep it to the brands that people can buy. But yeah, when I eat healthy I make a miniature little dinner for Gingerbread. Sometimes he has chicken, sweet potatoes, and green beans.  Other times it's ground beef and peas... you get the idea.  He does seem to be lactose intolerant though, so he gets his probiotics from food other than dairy.


----------



## arielmonzon

Hey guys, new to the forum. 
I started giving my dog Pedigree. He liked it as far as not starving to death.
Then when I went to the trainers, the other guys told me about Nutro.
Since I stated giving him Nutro, his stools have been about 75% smaller, he is happier and eats less. I did notice that he drinks less water too. It has been about 9 months since he started nutro and he looks great.
I should mention that I give him left over meat as a treat. Not bowls of it, but If my son doesn't want all of his food, I will give my dog a peice of steak or chicken. He loves it.
I was told that raw food i better, I preffer Nutro kibble because it's cheap and easier to give. I thought my dog was to fat, but turns out it's all muscle. He is a little bigger than the average boxer. Vet says it's Okay. 
I do get the cheaper of the Butro brands. Sometimes the regular on is on sale and sometimes the puppy one is on sal. Vet says the puppy one is just smaller. Lucas "my dog" like my to switch up his food anyway.
I would stick to the brand though.


----------



## Elijah

luvntzus said:


> Well I didn't include _everything_ I feed. I was trying to keep it to the brands that people can buy. But yeah, when I eat healthy I make a miniature little dinner for Gingerbread. Sometimes he has chicken, sweet potatoes, and green beans.  Other times it's ground beef and peas... you get the idea.  He does seem to be lactose intolerant though, so he gets his probiotics from food other than dairy.


Mmmmm...if you can throw in a glass of ice tea and a piece of apple pie, I'll catch a plane and help him out!


----------



## Ginny01OT

Elijah said:


> Mmmmm...if you can throw in a glass of ice tea and a piece of apple pie, I'll catch a plane and help him out!



How about a glass of chardonney with some cheese and crackers--


----------



## Elijah

Oh-you really know how to hurt a guy, mon chere!! I'll bring some candles and a CD of Barry White or KennyG. and some extra Harvey's Bristol just in case the wine runs out.


----------



## crickette

*Making an Informed Choice on Dog Food*

Have you looked at the list of ingredients on your dog food label lately? Are you aware that many dog foods - including many nationally advertised "name brands" - are actually made from... garbage? Jane Baetz wrote an informative article in the current issue of Spaniel Journal that helps dog owners to understand what makes a quality dog food stand apart from the crowd. 

Spaniel Journal ~ www.spanieljournal.com


----------



## siberian husky lover12

Dave|Xoxide said:


> What do you guys think is the *best* dog food? Typically I stick with the big name brand stuff, Iams and Purina One Lamb and Rice. Those of you that have experimented with the natural / organic stuff, can you really see a difference in your dog(s), would you recommend it. Hopefully we can spark some good debate. If we come up with handful of really popular ones we can put together a poll as well.
> 
> Let's here everyone's recommendations for the Best Dog Food!


Well I just feed mine cheap, Kibbles N Bits. They love it and i can save money on vaccines and stuff.


----------



## Elijah

> Well I just feed mine cheap, Kibbles N Bits. They love it and i can save money on vaccines and stuff.


You'll be cheating them out of a long and healthy life, too, little one. They probably like the smell because it stinks. Dogs don't have the same smeller we do. To them, Channel #5 may smell like poop. The money you save will go to your local friendly vet sooner or later.


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## siberian husky lover12

Well i can aford the name brands like Eukanuba and purina...


----------



## arielmonzon

siberian husky lover12 said:


> Well i can aford the name brands like Eukanuba and purina...


It really not about what you can afford. It's whats better for you dog. 
I am paying 20.00 for 35 lbs of Nutro which in my opinion way better than Iam or any other brand that is not made in store. There are some pet shops out here that make their own food but it is expensive. My boxer is now about 65 pounds and the 35 lbs bag last 2-3 weeks. Maybe 4. I haven't really counted, I just buy it when he is low. I can also say his crap sh!t don't stink as much as it did when he was eating cheaper food. I used to get this big bag from Costco for about 15.00 Now I get a almost half that for about 20.00. He loves it, and it last longer
Besides that, why get a dog who is going to be your best friend when you can't spring an extra couple bucks on his food to make him happy.


----------



## siberian husky lover12

No we really cant afford it its not funy. We are tied in debt right now...


----------



## jesseandstar

*Abady dog food*

Has anyone ever heard of Abady dog food? Any knowledge and experience with it? I currently feed my dog Nutro Ultra and Ultra Dental mixed. Am thinking of changing but not until I find something better.


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## Captbob

siberian husky lover12 said:


> Well i can aford the name brands like Eukanuba and purina...


The cost per meak from a totally garbage dog food like Kibbles and bits to a one of the much better foods that is pennies per mel. The vet bills for the diseases that they probably will get from the horrible diet, wil be much more than that... Incidentally Eukanuba and Purina are not good foods either. 

Check out Kirkland Signature Dog Food at Costco. Thousand times better than the dog junk foods for not much more money.


----------



## shtihl

*beg to differ*



Alpha said:


> I won't argue with you tirluc, I've spoken to many nutrionists, and other than homemade meals, canned is always mentioned as the way to go.
> 
> To be honest, vet's are known for having horrible nutrtion ideas, they are NOT dog nutrionists.
> 
> Many of the brands such as Techni-Cal (made by Royal Canin) that are sold in vet's offices are mere middle of the road foads.
> 
> Many people complain about higher end foods giving their dog the runs... it's a richer, higher quality food. Purina and Iams have specific chemicals in those foods to firm your dog up. Most of the higher end foods do not.
> 
> So, when you switch from a crap food, to a good food, it's like with people:
> 
> You eat crappy Mcdonalds hamburgers everyday. Than one day you eat a real steak. Your gonna get the runs! Your body is not used to those nutrients and needs to begin figuring out what to do with them.
> 
> And may I ask why those "vets" said that kibble is better than canned?
> 
> From every nutritionist I've spoken too, ALL have stated that canned is better than kibble. They have also given me all of the reasons and scientific explanations as to why.


ok lets get something straight. yes some canned foods are good and some dry foods are good but it depends on the dog mostly and as far as that bit about eating McDonalds for weeks and then having steak and getting the runs? what kind of steak did you eat? it will usually have the opposite effect and back up the plumbing. i feed my dogs pedigree dry and as a treat i get an occasional can of iams lamb/rice to mix with it. they love it and pedigree donates $1 from every sale to help rescue animals


----------



## Captbob

shtihl said:


> ok lets get something straight. yes some canned foods are good and some dry foods are good but it depends on the dog mostly and as far as that bit about eating McDonalds for weeks and then having steak and getting the runs? what kind of steak did you eat? it will usually have the opposite effect and back up the plumbing. i feed my dogs pedigree dry and as a treat i get an occasional can of iams lamb/rice to mix with it. they love it and pedigree donates $1 from every sale to help rescue animals


Pedigree is a cheap food with some pretty poor ingredients. It is not the worst food, but pretty close..... Probably would be great for chickens with all the grains that it is made of. Also, the meat sources are vague.. meat meal,, what kind of meat, road kill? I wouldn't feed my dog that , if it was free..... Pedigree should donate some money to a Vet fund for taking care of the dogs that get sick eating their food...

Ingredients:
*Ground yellow corn*,* meat* and bone meal, *corn gluten meal*, *chicken by-product meal*, *animal fat (preserved with BHA/BHT*), *wheat mill run,* natural poultry flavor, rice,* salt,* potassium chloride, *caramel color*,* wheat flour, wheat gluten,* vegetable oil, vitamins (choline chloride, dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate [source of vitamin C], vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], biotin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement), trace minerals (zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide)

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein: 21%
Fat: 9%
Fiber: 4%
Moisture: 12%


http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients


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## Elijah

> [i feed my dogs pedigree dry and as a treat i get an occasional can of iams lamb/rice to mix with it. they love it and pedigree donates $1 from every sale to help rescue animals


After all the information that's been posted here just over the past couple of months about dog food, some still haven't gotten the message. Pedigree should be donating five bucks instead of one.


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## siberian husky lover12

Well were do you get that dog food. If I were to get that food I would have to work to pay for it because my mom is a cheap liar, saying that cheap is stiil good, that one thing i hate bout her.


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## Elijah

Just my opinion, but at 12 years old, Laura, it's not your place to pay for the dog's food. Perhaps you mom isn't into dogs like you are and could care less about what he/she eats. Nothing wrong with a summer job to help pay for it if you desire but, be 12 while you can and don't try to be 18...it goes quick enough as it is.

BTW-give your Mom some slack, after all she's feeding you and the dog. I wouldn't tell her what is recommended here as she may not want you back on the forum anymore.


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## siberian husky lover12

Ok, but she really doesnt care about the dogs, always saing that she's going to get rid of them, but she never does.


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## Captbob

siberian husky lover12 said:


> Ok, but she really doesnt care about the dogs, always saing that she's going to get rid of them, but she never does.


See if there is a Costco near where you live. get the Kirkland Signature. It is inexpensive and good....


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## siberian husky lover12

no costco here


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## Elijah

Since this thread is about the "Best Dog Food", this is a great link for comparing nearly all brands and their ingredients.

http://forums.dogfoodproject.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=dogfood&page=1

Check out the ingredients in Ol' Roy...

*Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, wheat middlings, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), chicken by-product meal, rice, animal digest,*

Three guesses what "animal digest" is.

Laura-I don't know what kind of work a 12 year old could/can do to make a few coins on the side but, the only thing I can think of for a girl is baby sitting. Perhaps if you're serious enough about feeding you dog the best you/Mom can afford, maybe you could try that. Tell her you'll pitch in to help buy something better for your canine buddy. I use to get up at 4:00 am when I was 14 in the summer months to help deliver milk (shows my age!!) but that was to get extra money to take the girls to the movies.


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## siberian husky lover12

HA! Well still if i do get enough money to buy that food you mentioned,I would still not be able to get it becuase there is no brands like that here. I live in a very small town and we dont have much.


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## Dog Mom

My girls eat what I eat and they always have a bowl of dry food called Promise. My vet said as long as they get bones and some crunchy food, it is OK. My dogs usually live into the late teens and have no health problems.


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## Elijah

Oh, well...


----------



## Ginny01OT

siberian husky lover12 said:


> HA! Well still if i do get enough money to buy that food you mentioned,I would still not be able to get it becuase there is no brands like that here. I live in a very small town and we dont have much.


You can get most dog food through Petfooddirect.com or Sitstay.com


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## [email protected]

The best dog food, without question, is Timberwolf Organics. It is the only thing I have fed my GSDs for the last 5 years. It is expensive, but worth every penny.


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## Captbob

siberian husky lover12 said:


> HA! Well still if i do get enough money to buy that food you mentioned,I would still not be able to get it becuase there is no brands like that here. I live in a very small town and we dont have much.


There are places where you can order dog food online and if you buy a large enough bag, they will shop it for free. Maybe someone can post a web site that has good prices for food....


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## spottydog

I completely agree that we should feed our dogs whats best for them, and it's really an individual preference. 
My dog is about 10 years old. However he naturally has very bad skin, and a few years ago my vet recommended Addiction pet food. I did a lot of research before switching brands, and I have to say I'm very happy with the brand. His dry patches and scratching have cleared up and he looks healthy. They have a website and you can order online: www.addictionfoods.com


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## The Mack

[email protected] said:


> The best dog food, without question, is Timberwolf Organics. It is the only thing I have fed my GSDs for the last 5 years. It is expensive, but worth every penny.


There is NO best dog food in general. It all varies on the dog to determine which ones best. When someone asks me what the best dog food is, I can't give them an answer. I need to know more about their dog to determine what I think is the best. Sure, there are many GREAT dog foods out there. Pinpointing which ones the best right off hand is not possible. And yes, I'm well aware of Timberwolf's Ingredients.



spottydog said:


> I completely agree that we should feed our dogs whats best for them, and it's really an individual preference.
> My dog is about 10 years old. However he naturally has very bad skin, and a few years ago my vet recommended Addiction pet food. I did a lot of research before switching brands, and I have to say I'm very happy with the brand. His dry patches and scratching have cleared up and he looks healthy. They have a website and you can order online: www.addictionfoods.com


That's the first time I've ever heard of a vet recommending any food worth anything.



siberian husky lover12 said:


> Well were do you get that dog food. If I were to get that food I would have to work to pay for it because my mom is a cheap liar, saying that cheap is stiil good, that one thing i hate bout her.


Tell her the better the food, the cheaper it'll be.


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## spottydog

"That's the first time I've ever heard of a vet recommending any food worth anything."

Happy to hear that, it feels good knowing that my dog is eating a premium brand and that it's good for him. Does your store distribute Addiction?

Pet food does get expensive, but if it suits the dog and its within your budget, it's worth it.


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## Mama 2 Pebbles

The best food is the highest quality food your dog will eat.



Pebbles eats Solid Gold WolfCub (Bison) Large Puppy
She's been doing great on it.......healthy, shiny, very little dandruff, firm poops. When she's older she'll probably eat the MMillennia or one of the other SG adult foods.


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## vedo

I am afraid of all dog food right now. I began making Vedo's meals...brown rice, fresh vegies, chicken, eggs, cottage cheese.... I thought I would wait and see what happens with all this recall mess. I was feeding him Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers...Something, but that is made by"Diamond Foods" a company that had items on the recall list. Also I found out Diamond Foods was involved in an earlier recall mess. So I really don't know what to do...I am reading all of your comments though.


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## Kim

I've got my dog on the BARF diet and her skin, coat, and teeth are great! I'm reading this great book called Scared Poopless and it covers diet and health problems. Very interesting... (Barf stands for Biologically Appropriate Raw Food)


----------



## SymbaTrooper

I recently switched my dog (and cat) over to Orijen recently, as a result of my discovery that Menu Foods makes Wellness canned foods. Orijen is one of 2 food lines (the other is Acana, but Orijen is the premium brand) manufactured by Champion Pet Foods, a company owned and operated in Alberta, Canada. The ingredients are sourced by regional farmers (all are listed on the website - see Welcome to SPAM.com - Flash Player Installation

The dry kibble is excellent - both the cat and dog love it!! And what's not to love? It's grain-free, 70% meat, 30% fruits/veg, resulting in a dry food that guarantees 40% protein (compared to Wellness at 22%).

It's available and quite popular in Canada in specialty pet food stores - in the U.S., it's becoming available in some states, though online, you might try Welcome to SPAM.com - Flash Player Installation


----------



## Curbside Prophet

This seems like a safe haven for you







, but it's not!


----------



## Dutchie

I use blue buffalo and don't have any problems with it. It is a richer food so switch over slowly and you can use less. I don't know if it is the absolute best but that differs for each breed and even dog. I also give a small amount of meat leftovers more for a treat though. I reccomend you check out the whole dogs journal's approved foods list. And read up on the brands.


----------



## lindseyanne

ok here is my question what is the best food to feed a chi puppy?and where can i get it i live in grand junction colorado.


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## daveysmom

I have recently gotten my little guy from a shelter that recommended the BARF method of feeding my dog. I wouldn't change it for the world. I realized I didnt have to worry about this whole pet food recall because I made his food. It's a little work but it will help his health and immunization system in the long run.


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## Dutchie

I have a 10-11 year old bluetick coonhound. My main concern is that he gets proper vitimins and nutrition because of the poor shape he was in when I rescued him. He had kennel cough really bad, was deathly skinny, some of his teeth were missing, e-coli, urinary infection, burns, sores, and half his tail missing not to mention he was scared of us reaching up to get something ( i think someone beat him). Today he is doing 100% better with lots of vet visits and love he is not scared or skinny anymore! We did have to get 9 teeth removed because they were so badly infected. I am feeding him blue buffalo food. I use boiling water to soften the dry and use canned (some human food too). Does anyone have any sugestions on a better food for him or supplements he may need. (for joints ect.) None of my past dogs needed vitimins but they never had been malnurished their whole life. I want him to live the rest of his life as healthy and happy as possible. (I have no restrictions on price) All sugestions are welcome!!! I also do not want to feed raw foods.


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## OC_Spirit

I feed a mix of Orijen and Innova Evo mixed with raw meat. Works fantastic and the dogs love it!


----------



## AndyVetra

OC_Spirit said:


> I feed a mix of Orijen and Innova Evo mixed with raw meat. Works fantastic and the dogs love it!


The Orijen is very interesting, certainly one of the better foods I've seen. Combine that with a top notch live enzyme and probiotic supplement (hint hint), to enable the dog to maximize the benefits from that food, and that would look to be a great diet.

The combination of the quality proteins plus an ability to digest them is the key. Good as Orijen is, it cannot have live enzyme content or it would self-digest on the shelf. Dogs don't naturally have a great deal of enzymes as they rely on their food source for them (hence eating the innards of their prey in the wild). Therefore combine that food with a top quality live enzyme supplement and it would look to be terrific nutrition.

The Innova doesn't put its ingredients up but seems to be low protein and talks about "five food groups" which leads to the conclusion it is grain based.


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## Renoman

With regard to the Orijen, isn't 40% a little high for protein content? I know there are instances where you would want/require a level of protein that high but in general isn't that high?


----------



## AndyVetra

Renoman said:


> With regard to the Orijen, isn't 40% a little high for protein content? I know there are instances where you would want/require a level of protein that high but in general isn't that high?



When you watch a coyote, it will eat the internal organs of a rabbit and leave the flesh - or the majority of it - for the buzzards and crows. It could be argued, therefore, that dogs are naturally seeking effectively partially digested vegetable matter plus the "meat" of the innards, and critically, the rabbit's own live enzymes. 

The school of thought I have been part of suggest less than 40% protein, however it would also depend on feeding frequency. We feed our dogs at least once a day because that is our human nature. Naturally they would be feeding larger meals once every two or three days.

Quality of protein is key. This product, by ingredients, has high assimilatory quality proteins. I would say that not over-feeding this product would be key.

The only issue I would see with this is that the omega threes come from flax. Once flax seed is ground, the oil quickly becomes rancid, therefore dogs are getting very little value from this at best and at worst, rancid oils are linked to fatty tumors.


----------



## Dutchie

Has anyone heard of Flint River Ranch food??? Is so what is your opinion on it???


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## Renoman

A friend of mine swears by Flint River Ranch. She's fed it for years and will not consider feeding anything else.


----------



## JasonMPA

I've been cooking natural homemade food for my two since this dog food recall started. I don't trust anything commercial, even the so called "natural" dog foods that are being sold. I think I've noticed changes in their energy, but I'm not sure.


----------



## tobybones

sorry, but Iams is crap. Read the ingredients. Besides, Iams tortures dogs and
cats, why would you help them do that by buying that food? Purina is no
better, main ingredient is corn.


----------



## madpiano

Hello

I live in the UK. So half the stuff you are talking about isn't available here. I have found an online shop which sells Orjien and Timberwolf, but I am not impressed by Timberwolf ? What is so special about it ?

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Whole Ground Oats, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Brown Rice, Ground Barley, ( just the first couple of ingredients)

Chicken Meal is the same as Chicken derivatives etc, and as there is more than chicken (which weighs more and therefore is normally listed first), it doesn't sound that high quality ? And it seems to contain a lot of different grains. Isn't that worse than just one sort of grain (at least you can easier determine if your dog might have issues with it). ?

I like the look of Orjien, but the small packet size is off-putting. I prefer to buy 25kg bags. 

Here is what we have available in the UK:
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food

I normally buy whichever is on special deal at Pet Smart. Round about £20 for 25kg. We haven't got much money, so I can't afford to spend an awful lot more. £25 for 25kg is probably the max. 

I think Nutro may be available at Pet Smart, will have to check tonight as we are just running out again. 

Is it really that much better than what we are feeding right now ?
http://www.pero-petfood.co.uk/pero_gold.asp

Cheers
Mad


----------



## deegz

I used to feed my german shepherd Natural Choice but switched to Pedigree a while ago after all the recalls. Now I feed her Life's Abundance which is all natural available at the site below.


----------



## kewade

I feed my dogs Natural Choice dry dog food daily. However, on Sundays they get bacon & eggs mixed in with their dry dog food and I usually add cooked chicken livers to their kibble. I am also known to cook beef ribs and lamb shanks on the grill for them. I also feed them raw beef ribs frequently. Their coats are super shiney, they are happy happy dawgs!! I do wonder if the raw bones are better than the cooked. They actually eat better than I do!!


----------



## kewade

tobybones said:


> sorry, but Iams is crap. Read the ingredients. Besides, Iams tortures dogs and
> cats, why would you help them do that by buying that food? Purina is no
> better, main ingredient is corn.



WOW! Iams tortures animals???????????


----------



## rizzo

I went to a local doggie health food shop after my friend started telling me horror stories about Purina. I got my dogs something by Innova called California Natural. I asked questions and the woman sounded like she really knew what she was talking about. I got a lower cal version (as compared to the one that was 95% meat) because my dogs need to lose/maintain weight. Has anyone had good experience with that? Or have tried it?

It sounded very good--made in the US (got scared after that recall) and has no grains or fillers.


----------



## tobybones

Thank You for posting this. People need to know about Iams. I don't even buy
anything by proctor & Gamble, they own Iams.
My 2 dogs eat Blue Buffalo and what I cook for them, chicken, liver, turkey,
always mixed with brown rice and veggies, added to their dog food. I have a
pit mix and a boxer. Drool is Cool!


----------



## tobybones

he's a little bigger than the average boxer? How big? I have a white boxer that is Very big, 92 lbs, not an ounce of fat, actually he looks thin, he's very tall. My vet says he is fine, just a big, big boy. He'll be 2 yrs in June. Please tell me how big your dog is. My sister has a male boxer, built like a tank, 64 lbs of solid muscle, but about 4 inches shorter than mine. Everyone thinks I have an American Bulldog. Is this possible? I have his AKC papers, they say boxer, but I never saw his parents and I bought him (believe it or not) at a Flea Market. I knew they were a puppy mill, but I felt so sorry for him, I grabbed him up for $300.00. I feed both my dogs Blue Buffalo Puppy (dry, not canned) and I cook for them, fresh meat and brown rice and veggies to mix with it. They will not eat ANY dry dog food all by its-self. Spoiled!


----------



## vizslamomma

I feed my puppy Natrual Choice Large Breed Puppy. Is that good?


----------



## AndyVetra

vizslamomma said:


> I feed my puppy Natrual Choice Large Breed Puppy. Is that good?



Here are the ingredients. Being that chicken meal is the first ingredient, it is better than some, but it goes downhill rapidly from there. The claims of "better digestibility" are not correct. Digestibility requires enzymes. There are none in virtually any commercial food.

the overall protein versus fat percentages are OK for puppies.

Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Dried Beet Pulp, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Natural Flavor, Soybean Oil, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Lamb Meal, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Biotin, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Manganese Proteinate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Manganous Oxide, Chondroitin Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Proteinate, L-Carnitine, Sodium Selenite, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Calcium


----------



## saveourdogs

kewade said:


> WOW! Iams tortures animals???????????


No, there is a Animal Rights Terrorist group that had one of thier people hired by an outside testing lab that P&G used and staged photos and exaggerated claims. 

They gave the dogs thier yearly shots and the claim was they injected them with 'bla bla bla' to make it look really bad. 

The company had no control over this outside company and dropped them the second they heard about this and have since made a point to oversee better contractors. 

So don't believe everything you hear. The site that the AR terrorist put up about this is totally 100% false and each claim has been refuted.


----------



## saveourdogs

vizslamomma said:


> I feed my puppy Natrual Choice Large Breed Puppy. Is that good?


Yes it's a very good food. Is it one of the super premium brands, no but it is considered to be a premium brand. I feed my dogs this line.


----------



## peacock

i was feeding my dog pedegree but she was like a loonatic .she had a dull patchy coat. i then changed that and put her on burns chicken and brown rice dried food .and its the best thing ive done shes calmed right down every one comments on how shiney her coat is she looks so much healthier and doesnt have any bald patces anymore


----------



## SammyDog

I really have not thought about food so much. My last dog lived to 15 till we put him down on a diet of all the crap food stated in here ( and a LOT of table scraps). But now I want a good food for my new pup.

Is Nutro Natural choice any good?


----------



## Ðanisty

Wow, no, I didn't read every page...lol. I was just curious because I had a friend who was a dog nutritionist. She always preferred home cooked, but since I didn't have a lot of time, she recommended Canidae to me. Previously my dogs had been eating Purina One. Once I switched them to the Canidae it was almost an immediate improvement. I don't understand how someone could open a bag of Purina and open a bag of Canidae and look at the two and not be able to see a difference _just looking at it_.


----------



## Border.C.

I have heard the best way to determine good dog food is to look at the ingredents.A good food is one that has a meat as the first one.I also believe that rice is easier for them to digest.


----------



## RonE

You want to look not just at what's included, but what's not included.

Wheat and rice gluten seem like ingredients to avoid. Unfortunately, several companies are now saying that some of their foods were outsourced and they really didn't know WHAT was being included.

I avoid companies that put their label on a food without knowing what's inside the can.


----------



## borzoimom

Well- I feed raw, but there are times, like traveling, or vacations etc that I can not insure proper refrigeration, or even power loss my dogs have to go back on a commercial food. 
The ones I like are Eagle Pack, and Solid Gold. ( I use Bil Jac to wean puppies because of the digestability and it turns to instant mush with esbalac etc.and its made by the company itsself in a unique way and not extruded kibble. Extrustion kills alot of the water soluable vitamins and b vitamins..).. 

The problem with plants like Menu foods etc is just that they run one company after another. When I was in my 20's I guess I worked a second part time job at a apple juice place. We would run one brand- change lables add a few different mixtures, then keep on trucking.. What I learned from that was to use a food that it was made by the OWNING company, in their own place to know for sure you are getting that perticular brand, without cross over " contamination"..


----------



## Elijah

What's happened to Captbob? I figured he'd be posting all over this thread.


----------



## DivaDog

Dave|Xoxide said:


> What do you guys think is the *best* dog food? Typically I stick with the big name brand stuff, Iams and Purina One Lamb and Rice. Those of you that have experimented with the natural / organic stuff, can you really see a difference in your dog(s), would you recommend it. Hopefully we can spark some good debate. If we come up with handful of really popular ones we can put together a poll as well.
> 
> Let's here everyone's recommendations for the Best Dog Food!


I have fed all sorts while trying to find something that would stop my dog scratching herself to death. For about 3 years JamesWellBeloved seemed to help but it went downhill from there - then I tried Burns and saw a little improvement...............now I feed a mix of homecooked and raw and can honestly say she is better than ever before. shes finally keeping weight on which has been an issue most of her life - she hardly itches - and can even tolerate some of the once 'forbidden' foods like rice and certain veggies. We still have bad days- afterall however quick I am she still sometimes picks up something to eat she shouldnt - but on the whole its fantastic, timewise I dont find it an issue - couple of hours every 2/3 months and just freeze it all - and price wise I spend maybe £10 every three months which is far cheaper than any dried food.


----------



## broadwaybones

Look at the bag! If your dog food has more ingredients in it then you can pronounce and remember.... forget it!!! I have spent four months strictly devoted to finding out what is in commercial dog food! My advice, don't buy it! Go all-natural, organic, or HIGH quality raw. Your dog may not show any effects to the commerical dog food now! But, did you know that 1 in every 3 dogs will get cancer! 50% of those will die. Currently, it is linked to the ingestion of enviromental hazards! Ask a vet, but read the bags of food in treir office as well!! I have been told Science Diet has gone down the lines of commerical foods as well!
Vets will always tell you not to let your dog to lick anti-freeze right?? Look at the label and if you see Propylene Glycol.. this is used to make antifreeze. What about Ethoxyquin?? This is used to make rubber! NOT KIDDING!! Did you also know that canines can not process sugars as effectively as humans do? Did you know that various forms of sugars are used in food and treats, and that there has been an extreme increase in canine diabetes??? All this can be found in commercial foods. Go all-natural with your food and treats! Look at my blogs on broadwaybones.com for aditional information! Good luck!


----------



## GreyhoundGirl

Chicken soup for the dog lover's soul has worked wonders with my greyhound mix.


----------



## dice336

I have started using organic brands and have been very happy with the results. The only complaint is price.


----------



## toby toby

I have a 10 month old maltese/toy poodle. I was wondering what is the best dog food to feed him. I am looking for something that will give him a balance diet and to also help his coat become soft and shinny? Any suggestions?


----------



## broadwaybones

toby toby said:


> I have a 10 month old maltese/toy poodle. I was wondering what is the best dog food to feed him. I am looking for something that will give him a balance diet and to also help his coat become soft and shinny? Any suggestions?


Do some research on what particular problems your breed may encounter. Some dogs are prone to back problems other to hip and joint. Check with your vet to see watch nutrients are essential to your breed. Hopefully, your vet will have an answer for you. I regards to overall foods, I suggest staying away from any food that contains chemical preservatives, corn, soy, by-products or meals.  If you are concerned about his coat I would strongly suggest a food high in Omega 3 oils. You can also find Salmon oil supplements for him.


----------



## TomN

What's the best dog food?? Boy.. that's a loaded question, one in which I don't think there is a right answer to. What one dog does well on, another might not. From an ingredient standpoint, I think there are many fine feeds out now that one could say from reading the back of the bag "boy that looks good". But you really don't know until you've tried them.

I think you have to not only read the ingredients listed, but understand what quality ingredients are. I have always believed that meat based diets whether dry or canned are best for most dogs. That is not to say that foods with the proper quantities of vegetables, grains are bad, just that they should not be the dominant ingredient in the food. Balanced diets include the essential amino acids from meat, plants, and grains. The key is the balance.

Many quality meat based diets will have a meat in the form of a meal ie.. chicken meal, turkey meal etc.. as the number #1 ingredient. This will insure that the food has a meat base and not just "chicken", which is 70% water before it is processed, so now it is no longer purely a meat base. 

Ideally two meat sources at the top of the list would be even better. Foods that are heavy in grains will list several grains in the first 5 ingredients. These foods may or may not give the best results when it comes to overall general health, coat condition and stool consistency.

The other factor is cost. How much is one prepared to spend to feed their dogs. If cost is not a factor, then there are plenty of holistic brands to choose from that are fine foods, but come at an extra cost. 

FWIW
Tom


----------



## mydoglovesu

I'd have to agree with Tom. There are a lot of great quality premium end Dog Foods out in the market, do your research and find out what you want your dog to have as far as ingredients, guranteed analysis, etc. We are currently feeding our goldens the Innova EVO Red Meat. Our babies absolutely love this food, never had any problems with loose stools or gas problems. We are not fortunate enough to have a local store supply this line so we do have the expense of buying online. If anyone is having problems finding this food you can purchase it at http://www.heartypet.com. 

Skylar


----------



## goldensummit

mydoglovesu said:


> I'd have to agree with Tom. There are a lot of great quality premium end Dog Foods out in the market, do your research and find out what you want your dog to have as far as ingredients, guranteed analysis, etc. We are currently feeding our goldens the Innova EVO Red Meat. Our babies absolutely love this food, never had any problems with loose stools or gas problems. We are not fortunate enough to have a local store supply this line so we do have the expense of buying online. If anyone is having problems finding this food you can purchase it at http://www.heartypet.com.
> 
> Skylar


Hi Skylar .... if you dont mind me asking, how was your experiences with heartypet.com? I have been using another online store but their delivery takes well over 2 weeks most times! I am on the east coast. Their prices seem great, but im just not sure about their service. Any info you can offer would be great!

Thanks,
Kyle


----------



## mydoglovesu

goldensummit said:


> Hi Skylar .... if you dont mind me asking, how was your experiences with heartypet.com? I have been using another online store but their delivery takes well over 2 weeks most times! I am on the east coast. Their prices seem great, but im just not sure about their service. Any info you can offer would be great!
> 
> Thanks,
> Kyle




Hi Kyle,
I have had nothing but great service with Hearty Pet. We live in the South Carolina area and receive our food within 2 days. I now put our food on their automatic delivery plan which is great; I don't have to keep remembering to go place my order in time before we run out. They do have a map on their Shipping Policy page so you can see from your location how long the shipping time will take. 

Skylar


----------



## broadwaybones

Captbob said:


> Pedigree is a cheap food with some pretty poor ingredients. It is not the worst food, but pretty close..... Probably would be great for chickens with all the grains that it is made of. Also, the meat sources are vague.. meat meal,, what kind of meat, road kill? I wouldn't feed my dog that , if it was free..... Pedigree should donate some money to a Vet fund for taking care of the dogs that get sick eating their food...
> 
> Ingredients:
> *Ground yellow corn*,* meat* and bone meal, *corn gluten meal*, *chicken by-product meal*, *animal fat (preserved with BHA/BHT*), *wheat mill run,* natural poultry flavor, rice,* salt,* potassium chloride, *caramel color*,* wheat flour, wheat gluten,* vegetable oil, vitamins (choline chloride, dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate [source of vitamin C], vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], biotin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement), trace minerals (zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide)
> 
> Guaranteed Analysis
> Protein: 21%
> Fat: 9%
> Fiber: 4%
> Moisture: 12%
> 
> 
> http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients


If any of you have done research on what meat meal consists of than you know that our euthanized cats and dogs are shipped across the border to Canada where the main rendering plants are. Then, it is shipped back across the border as meat meal and bone meal. Gee, why are vets complained about the increase amount of euthanizing drugs to put dogs and cats down???? IMO meat and bone meal should be banned!


----------



## Keenan

Captbob said:


> Pedigree is a cheap food with some pretty poor ingredients. It is not the worst food, but pretty close..... Probably would be great for chickens with all the grains that it is made of. Also, the meat sources are vague.. meat meal,, what kind of meat, road kill? I wouldn't feed my dog that , if it was free..... Pedigree should donate some money to a Vet fund for taking care of the dogs that get sick eating their food...
> 
> Ingredients:
> *Ground yellow corn*,* meat* and bone meal, *corn gluten meal*, *chicken by-product meal*, *animal fat (preserved with BHA/BHT*), *wheat mill run,* natural poultry flavor, rice,* salt,* potassium chloride, *caramel color*,* wheat flour, wheat gluten,* vegetable oil, vitamins (choline chloride, dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate [source of vitamin C], vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], biotin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement), trace minerals (zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide)
> 
> Guaranteed Analysis
> Protein: 21%
> Fat: 9%
> Fiber: 4%
> Moisture: 12%
> 
> 
> http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients


While I agree with you, my mom and dad have fed their dog Pedigree for her entire life. She'll be 17 years old in March and the only thing wrong with her is that her hearing is going bad. Other than that she's spry as a pup, just with less endurance.


----------



## dusty&lulusmom

I have recently been educating myself on dog nutrition and some of the commerical foods available. I was guilty of feeding kibbles n bits, ol roy, etc. I adopted a dog about 2 months ago who refused to eat. After researching how dog food is made and what goes into some of it, I actually became angered that they had the nerve to take my money and have me thinking that my dogs were being fed properly. I recommend reading the book "Pet Food Nation" if you are like me and educating yourself on proper dog nutrition and what is in the commercial dog foods. Anyway with saying that I am now homecooking my dogs food and adding a commercial kibble. I have two smaller dogs so the cooking is not too difficult. I am still in the process of deciding what kibble to commit to but I am leaning towards solid gold holistique blendz. I think this would be best for my dogs since it is lower in protein and should work well with the additional homecooked food being added to it. I am still in the stages of researching and learning so if anyone else has any idea of a kibble that goes best with homecooked food added to it I would like to hear it.


----------



## flipgirl

I'm new here but interested in your discussion. Dogs have lived on the so-called regular dog foods for years but that is not to say that they can't be fed better. Feeding your dog these lower end foods may or may not shorten his life just the same as feeding your dog the super premium foods may or may extend his life. Like humans, there are always exceptions to every rule.  First of all, I believe that it is important that I feed my dog the most nutritious food that I can afford because I believe that good nutrition is the basis of good health. Second of all, even though I strongly believe nutrition is important, genetics play a huge role in your dog's health and lifespan. If you have a dog who comes from a line of dogs with cancer, there is a good chance your dog will end up having cancer, no matter what you feed him. However, I think that feeding your dog nutritious quality food helps in improving your dog's quality of life. Thirdly, I wish I had the research handy but there have been studies done on how a food affects dogs' lifespans and it was concluded that it was not what you fed your dog but how you fed your dog. That is to say, a dog fed the right amounts to maintain a good body condition lived longer than a dog fed improper amounts and did not maintain a good body condition. I would love to see a study where they had dogs from the same litter and one fed a regular foods and another fed a super premium food - that would be interesting. I'm not sure there is a best food out there because every dog is different. I feed mine Innova puppy as that is the most I can afford - raw would probably be the best food but it's expensive and time consuming. Innova EVO is purported to be kibble's answer to raw food but I've heard that many dogs have a problem with gas on it. I think if you are going to switch your dog from a regular to premium food, switch the food very slowly as the quality of the ingredients is quite different.


----------



## SSpiro

I switch between Canidae and Pinnacle. Some great foods, and there some other great ones out there.

And I agree with flipgirl - great post.


----------



## ar3151

i also would like to know what is the best, i see alot of options but not to many are consistant.

nutro from petsmart? that seems to be decent.

bad: Purina and Iams?

ol roy?
science diet?

just throwing some foods out there that i have seen and people have "said" are good.


----------



## SSpiro

ar3151 said:


> i also would like to know what is the best, i see alot of options but not to many are consistant.
> 
> nutro from petsmart? that seems to be decent.
> 
> bad: Purina and Iams?
> 
> ol roy?
> science diet?
> 
> just throwing some foods out there that i have seen and people have "said" are good.


I personally only follow foods listed on the Whole Dog Food Journal's approved list. Anything else I avoid. Included in the "bad" list is Nutro, Iams, Purina, Ol Roy, Science Diet, etc. These foods are typically compared to fast food choices for humans.

This reply might make my unliked - not sure what the consensus is on this forum. Dogs have been fed these "fast food style" foods for years and have survived - but as mentioned by flipgirl - "Feeding your dog these lower end foods may or may not shorten his life just the same as feeding your dog the super premium foods may or may extend his life." 

I chose to use a premium food to ensure an outstanding quality of life.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

I've not read this entire thread.. but just in case, here is the 2006 listing from WDJ.



> Here is the Whole Dog Journal list of foods for 2006 along with their website addresses. Some will send free samples by visiting their websites.
> 
> 2006
> Artemis: artemispetfood.com
> Azmira: azmira.com
> Back to Basics: beowulfs.com
> Bench & Field Holistic Natural Canine: benchandfield.com
> Blue Buffalo: bluebuff.com
> Burns: bpn4u.com
> by Nature BrightLife: bynaturepetfoods.com
> California Natural: naturapet.com:
> Canidae: canidae.com
> Canine Caviar: caninecaviar.com
> Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul: chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com
> Cloud Star Kibble: cloudstar.com
> Drs. Foster & Smith: drsfostersmith.com
> Eagle Pack Holistic Select: eaglepack.com
> Evolve: evolvepet.com
> Firstmate Dog Food: firstmate.com A NEW ONE!
> Flint River: no web
> Foundations: petcurean.com
> Fromm Four Star Nutritionals: frommfamilyfoods.com
> Go! Natural: petcurean.com
> Hund-N-Flocken: solidgoldhealth.com
> Innova: naturapet.com
> Innova Evo: naturapet.com A NEW ONE!
> Karma Organic: karmaorganic.com
> Lick Your Chops: healthypetfoodsinc.com
> Lifespan: petguard.com
> Limited Diets: royalcanin.us
> Merrick Pet Foods: merrickpetcare.com
> Mmillennia: solidgoldhealth.com
> Natural Balance Ultra Premium: naturalbalanceinc.com
> Natural Choice Ultra: nutroproducts.com
> Newman's Own Organics: newmansownorganics.com
> NutriSource: nutrisourcedogfood.com A NEW ONE!
> Organix: castorpolluxpet.com
> Performatrin Ultra: performatrinultra.com A NEW ONE!
> PHD Viand: phdproducts.com
> Pinnacle: breeders-choice.com
> Prairie: naturesvariety.com
> Premium Edge: premiumedgepetfood.com
> Prime Life: ompetproducts.com
> Royal Canin Natural Blend: royalcanin.us
> Timberwolf Organics: timberwolforganics.com
> VeRUS: veruspetfoods.com
> Wellness: oldmotherhubbard.com
> Wellness Simple Food Solutions: oldmotherhubbard.com
> Wenawe: wenawe.com.uy A NEW ONE!
> Wysong: wysong.net
> Zinpro: lincolnbiotech.com A NEW ONE!


----------



## crazihors1

Ive been feeding my dogs Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice (or the lamb) I chose it because of the ingredients. It looks very similiar to Nutro. What do you think? Is it as good as I think it is? ( The ingredient list was not copy and paste friendly)


----------



## Diamend

Is this good for puppy's??


----------



## Occy

thing is about that list that for someone like me in Aus - very few of those foods are available and something like EVO is simply not complex enough for me - where is the glucosamine?


----------



## The Mack

ar3151 said:


> i also would like to know what is the best, i see alot of options but not to many are consistant.
> 
> nutro from petsmart? that seems to be decent.
> 
> bad: Purina and Iams?
> 
> ol roy?
> science diet?
> 
> just throwing some foods out there that i have seen and people have "said" are good.


ol roy is crap. period. nothing good about it at all.
good rule of thumb is this, if you can get it at a grocery store, wal-mart/kmart/target type store, it's not worth the money you're saving.
science diet is filled with fillers. it sells because vets recommend it because most of them don't know a lick about nutrition.

purina, nothing good to come out of them
iams, same.



crazihors1 said:


> Ive been feeding my dogs Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice (or the lamb) I chose it because of the ingredients. It looks very similiar to Nutro. What do you think? Is it as good as I think it is? ( The ingredient list was not copy and paste friendly)


It's ok, but you could do better. It all depends on the limit of your budget.



Occy said:


> thing is about that list that for someone like me in Aus - very few of those foods are available and something like EVO is simply not complex enough for me - where is the glucosamine?


EVO is one of the best foods available on the market.
What makes you think your dog NEEDS added glocosamine?


----------



## Occy

mack - thanks for pushing the barrow of the foods you like

I would argue that purina pro plan is one of the single best foods on the market at present. prove to me that it isn't!!

What makes me think my dog needs glucosamine? well though I might not be an expert on everything like you, I do know my dog - I do know that ALL my dogs are over 7 and ALL have arthritic changes. I know that I have SEEN changes when they have been on glucosamine. I dont think my dogs need it, I know they do.

The proof is in the pooping!!


----------



## ACampbell

Occy, you are 100% right, Glucosamine is very important for anybody or anything that has arthritis...my rheumatologist recommended it since I have osteo-arthritis...which is incureable and is due to damage or heavy use of joints...it's the most common type of arthritis in aging people and pets ...the glucosamine really works, I can speak from personal experience, so does MSM...but it tastes absolutely horrible! It's also good for younger people/animals as it promotes cartiledge health, so I think with arthritis being a common problem with canines that are advanced in age, a dog food should have it as a suppliment, as it's obviously beneficial for both young and old dogs...what do you think?


----------



## Occy

I completely agree

I usually have a glucosamine.chondroitin/msm mix and it works wonders - must get some more


----------



## The Mack

Occy said:


> mack - thanks for pushing the barrow of the foods you like
> 
> I would argue that purina pro plan is one of the single best foods on the market at present. prove to me that it isn't!!
> 
> What makes me think my dog needs glucosamine? well though I might not be an expert on everything like you, I do know my dog - I do know that ALL my dogs are over 7 and ALL have arthritic changes. I know that I have SEEN changes when they have been on glucosamine. I dont think my dogs need it, I know they do.
> 
> The proof is in the pooping!!


Easy man, I was just asking. I don't know your dogs.
I don't consider myself an expert by any means. I know the foods I sell, I do the research and know why I choose which ones I do.
I only, ONLY, bring in Purina products if a customer requests it. Even then I suggest & offer a special to switch.

However, anything Purina makes isn't worth anything. They implement the least cost formula on their foods (equine, dog, cat) etc. Just that makes them NOT the best on the market.

Using the Pro Plan, Chicken & Rice formula...
this is why they aren't the best... see bold. thanks



> Chicken, brewers rice, *whole grain wheat*, *poultry by-product meal* (natural source of glucosamine), *corn gluten meal*, *whole grain corn*, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), *corn bran*, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, dried egg product, calcium phosphate, *salt*, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate,


----------



## Occy

i cant see anything there that is carcenogenic, or that is detrimental to their health. while grains arent particularly necessary theyre not going to kill the dog.

as i said - im all for going better but its a matter of availability


----------



## The Mack

Occy said:


> i cant see anything there that is carcenogenic, or that is detrimental to their health. while grains arent particularly necessary theyre not going to kill the dog.
> 
> as i said - im all for going better but its a matter of availability


In this day and age, anything and everything is available.
The grains aren't something the dog needs, and no, they themselves might not kill the dog, but the contaminated versions might.

Besides Purina's least cost formula, do you know what that is?
For example, 6 years ago we had two grain companies we bought from...

Purina & Blue Seal.

In Hagerstown MD, Blue Seal would bring in a rail car load of corn. Inspect, doesn't pass, send it to Purina. Purina takes it.

They don't care about quality, they're all about what's cheapest that week.


----------



## cascabel

Occy said:


> i cant see anything there that is carcenogenic, or that is detrimental to their health.


Then I think you may need to do some reading on menadione sodium bisulfite complex. 

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione


----------



## Occy

have read that site informative but a little hysterical. Mack - have you been reading my posts or not - most of those foods are simply Not available here in Aus.


----------



## spottydog

I swear by Addiction They have an exotic sounding raw dehydrated food called New Zealand Forest Delicacies! They even have gourmet ingredients like Active Manuka Honey in the food! What is more important, my dog LOVES it!!!!


----------



## RonE

> What is more important, my dog LOVES it!!!!


I wish I had a nickle for every time I read this.

My dog loves bird seed, cedar mulch, acorns and used Kleenex.


----------



## starry15

I think Nutro Natural Choice is the best


----------



## The Mack

RonE said:


> I wish I had a nickle for every time I read this.
> 
> My dog loves bird seed, cedar mulch, acorns and used Kleenex.


lol my dog loves batteries, candles, peanut butter, bread



spottydog said:


> I swear by Addiction They have an exotic sounding raw dehydrated food called New Zealand Forest Delicacies! They even have gourmet ingredients like Active Manuka Honey in the food! What is more important, my dog LOVES it!!!!


I picked up information on them this past show in Chicago.
Looked good, I'll prolly bring it in eventually.


----------



## Occy

My dogs are obviously more clever than yours. they like dog food


----------



## robbyf

Not sure why folks need to post nonsense on threads like this. Seems like you either get people saying "anyone of these 10 brands is good" or you get "i feed my dog Pro Plan". 

Let me sum it up for you in a couple of sentences. There are really only 2 important factors in getting to the best food. #1 It uses the best ingredients #2 It has the best and most balanced formulas

Clearly, if you do any detailed research you will quickly realize that Wellnesses new "Core" product is by far the best product on the market. It uses the best ingredients (all human grade), the formulation is unbelievable and strangely balanced even though its very protein oriented. Additionally, Wellness is a company that is completely committed to quality and per my discussions with their customer service reps, they actually have a 5 person QA department and has hired a human food grade inspection company to audit its manufacturing processes for quality. When you layer in all of these factors, you will easily get to the answer of what is the "best dog food".....Now the stuff is not cheap and is really hard to find so good luck. If you can't find it, Innova's top end products are a close second to this formulation. Then again, you can always order on-line.


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## RonE

Finally, a definitive answer to one of the most common and universal questions from dog owners!

Now, what kind of dog would you recommend for a college fraternity?

I'm just happy we can get rid of this dog food subforum.


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## timnbetsy

Mmmm. . . which dog food is the best? This is an age old question. First, different dogs have different nutritional needs. This is true in the human species also. There are really no "bad" dog foods. . . none of the commercial dog foods will kill dogs. Some just have better quality ingredients than others. My suggestion when searching for a dog food for your baby is RESEARCH. Research your breed, research ancestry, and then do some more research. The same goes for the food you choose to feed. What I feed my 80 lb. puppy is not necessarily what I am going to feed a 4 month old pom or even a 10 yr old GSD. 

There are some really good quality foods on the market! Blue Buffalo carries a line called "Blue" that is a nice quality. As others have posted about human grade ingredients, this company uses only human grade ingredients, no additives! Check out their website, it is full of useful nutritional information.


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## RonE

> none of the commercial dog foods will kill dogs


Not on purpose, maybe, but where were you a few months ago?


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## timnbetsy

Based on ingredients, and not manufacturing screw ups. . . you're right, the foods were killing dogs, but prior to the melamine these foods weren't. Thanks for pointing that out!


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## flipgirl

Why is it good that we can get rid of this "dog food subforum"? Isn't this section of the forum called Dog Food Forum? Of course, everyone is going to think the food they feed their dog is the best, which means it's the best for their dog. If you really want the best food for your dog but do not want to go the RAW route, rotate between 3 different but good brands or foods within a brand, that way, you can ensure you are giving your dog a variety of protein sources (and thereby avoid the development of an allergy) and all the nutrients he needs. Of course, you still have to switch their foods gradually but you can do it every 3 bags. But I think an important thing to do when choosing a dog food is to look at the ingredients and if you see anything funny like propylene glycol or hydrochloric acid, then don't buy it. (Kibbles n Bits has these two apparently FDA approved ingredients in certain amounts). And if it's made by a big company which distributes to other companies, it's probably made with cheaper and lower quality ingredients.


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## cityDog

The best food is the one YOUR dog does best on.

Too many people just fail to (or wish not to) see when their dog is not thriving. Constant scratching/chewing/paw licking, persistant ear infections, soft frequent ginormous stools, foul breath, etc etc are not normal for a healthy dog.


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## kratos88

if u r having a problem with ur dog just swallowing the food and not chewing it u should try to put large rocks in with the food it will help to slow down their eating.


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