# Sport prospect dog/puppy - To Neuter or not to Neuter?



## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

This question has been on my mind for the past while. 

My next dog(tentatively Border Collie for now, it could turn into a Pap though ) I'm planning to get as a sport prospect and there's always the question to get him on a limited registration or full registration but with a contract on breeding. 

I don't plan on breeding unless I've actually achieved something like open level USBCHA which I highly highly doubt I will.

I know a few people on here have sport/pet dogs that are not neutered saying there is no real benefits to neutering. Is it more beneficial to leave a male sport dog intact because it helps their bones grow better? Does it really make a difference after 2 yrs of age?

I know I could never handle an unspayed bitch but I'm positive I can handle an intact male. 

Price of the puppy is not an issue for me so that doesn't have any weight in the consideration.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

There are certainly benefits to neutering in my opinion, but first I do agree with not spaying/neutering before 18 months especially for a sport dog. To ensure that the growth plates close properly etc. Now for the benefits, I have an intact male and a neutered male, they are littermates. My male Bobbi (intact) does stress more around the girls, if the girls are coming into heat, during a heat etc. This includes when we are competing too, even spayed girls can put off a scent sometimes that makes the boys want to check them out. Certainly harder if someones dog pee's in an agility ring, at the very least he gets distracted and it can effect his run. And of the littermates, my intact dog is aging faster than my neutered boy..........at he appears to be and he is getting a tad grumpier as he ages (they are 11 1/2 now). Petie (neutered) on the other hand is remaining in awesome condition, has slowed down a bit but can still rock it around an agility course and people are often surprised at how old he is because he certainly doesn't look or act it.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

May I ask why you chose to keep one dog intact while the littermate neutered?


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> May I ask why you chose to keep one dog intact while the littermate neutered?


Sure I don't mind. There were multiple valid reasons for neutering Petie and they are all equal in my mind. He had one testicle just outside of where it should have been and the other reason was Bobbi had a more stable temperament. Although I love Petie and he is my heart dog, he easily could have been turned into a SA dog, he had some fear aggression issues as well, all and all not a good prospect as a stud. Funny enough he is also my most titled dog in multiple events and is an awesome performance dog. lol Many years ago, I had Petie at an agility seminar with a guy that had won and judged the FCI World Agility Championships and he asked me, " Who was the fool that neutered this dog?" lmao

Bobbi on the other hand, although not as titled as Petie (just because I couldn't afford to show him as much) has proven to be an excellent producer. Many of his pups (very limited breedings) have gone on to win a bunch and be multi titled dogs along with some National championships. His pups are known for awesome minds and dispositions liveablity, biddablity, athletism and no health issues. Bobbi is one of those dogs that has never met a stranger and treats everyone like they are his long lost friend and it appears that he has passed that too along to his offspring.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

There was some research done not long ago that I believe made a connection between neutered dogs and CCL/ACL tears. With the amount of dogs I have heard of that suffer a CCL/ACL injury, it seems wise to me to stack the deck.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> There was some research done not long ago that I believe made a connection between neutered dogs and CCL/ACL tears. With the amount of dogs I have heard of that suffer a CCL/ACL injury, it seems wise to me to stack the deck.



It was in the rescue contract that Tag be neutered at or before 6 months. I didn't want to, but I respected the rescues wishes and I signed a contract stating I would. He was neutered at 6 months old...to the day. I worry about that. 
Dude was neutered at 8 weeks, and his legs have been crap since he was 2 years old. 
Auz was neutered at 2 years and he's got arthritis at 5 1/2 years, but the general agreement between a few vets and the breeder is this was due to lacking nutrition in his growth stages. Poor dog. 
And Tag is VERY interested in my trainers female corgi. (Doesn't help that every time they see eachother, the corgi goes belly-up and spreads her legs open, lmao!!!) Tag knows he should be interested...he just doesn't know why 



LynnI said:


> Sure I don't mind. There were multiple valid reasons for neutering Petie and they are all equal in my mind. He had one testicle just outside of where it should have been and the other reason was Bobbi had a more stable temperament. Although I love Petie and he is my heart dog, he easily could have been turned into a SA dog, he had some fear aggression issues as well, all and all not a good prospect as a stud. Funny enough he is also my most titled dog in multiple events and is an awesome performance dog. lol Many years ago, I had Petie at an agility seminar with a guy that had won and judged the FCI World Agility Championships and he asked me, " Who was the fool that neutered this dog?" lmao
> 
> Bobbi on the other hand, although not as titled as Petie (just because I couldn't afford to show him as much) has proven to be an excellent producer. Many of his pups (very limited breedings) have gone on to win a bunch and be multi titled dogs along with some National championships. His pups are known for awesome minds and dispositions liveablity, biddablity, athletism and no health issues. Bobbi is one of those dogs that has never met a stranger and treats everyone like they are his long lost friend and it appears that he has passed that too along to his offspring.


Just curious but if you don't mind sharing, what breed are Bobbi and Petie? They sound great


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> It was in the rescue contract that Tag be neutered at or before 6 months. I didn't want to, but I respected the rescues wishes and I signed a contract stating I would. He was neutered at 6 months old...to the day. I worry about that.
> Dude was neutered at 8 weeks, and his legs have been crap since he was 2 years old.
> Auz was neutered at 2 years and he's got arthritis at 5 1/2 years, but the general agreement between a few vets and the breeder is this was due to lacking nutrition in his growth stages. Poor dog.
> And Tag is VERY interested in my trainers female corgi. (Doesn't help that every time they see eachother, the corgi goes belly-up and spreads her legs open, lmao!!!) Tag knows he should be interested...he just doesn't know why


Six months isn't too bad, although if I had to neuter a dog I'd prefer to push it out to 12-18 months, but I get LIVID over the puppy spay. Hate, hate, hate it. I understand it's very common in the (Australian) Labradoodle community to send puppies home already fixed, it's seen as part of being a responsible breeder, but I HATE IT. 

Somewhere I saw a reference to that when population scientists want to get numbers down, they fix either the males or the females, but usually not both sexes. Has anyone else heard this?


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## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

You can look at what goes on with horses. They only neuter the males, and leave the females intact. The difference however is there aren't a bunch of intact male horses running around jumping into your pasture to impregnate your mares.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Six months isn't too bad, although if I had to neuter a dog I'd prefer to push it out to 12-18 months, but I get LIVID over the puppy spay. Hate, hate, hate it. I understand it's very common in the (Australian) Labradoodle community to send puppies home already fixed, it's seen as part of being a responsible breeder, but I HATE IT. 

*I did a puppy neuter on Dude. NEVER again. I wish I would have been able to let Tag go til he was a year old or so...oh well. Not much I can do about it now except feed him testosterone supplements *

Somewhere I saw a reference to that when population scientists want to get numbers down, they fix either the males or the females, but usually not both sexes. Has anyone else heard this? 

*I've heard in the wolf population, it's not uncommon for biologists (or whoever studies wolves) to tranq dart a male wolf and give him a vasectomy right there in the field. It takes only a few minutes apparently, and the male wolf still acts and smells "all boy", but just can't reproduce. Keeps the population at bay without totally screwing with the pack dynamics.*


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

dbulick said:


> You can look at what goes on with horses. They only neuter the males, and leave the females intact. The difference however is there aren't a bunch of intact male horses running around jumping into your pasture to impregnate your mares.


Actually the reason they don't spay fillies and mares in horses is because it is major surgery and very expensive. To my knowledge your average Vet can't do a spay but she has to be sent to a University or very large clinic that is equipped to do major surgeries on horses, where as the any equine Vet can perform a gelding (neuter). And the other reason is stallions/studs are not the easiest to handle for the average horse owner, therefore most horse owners avoid having them. It is also not allowed for anyone under the age of 18 to show an intact horse of any age. Not to mention that most people are not set up to properly to have a stallion and they are a legal liablilty if they do get out. And many boarding stables will not take in stallions/studs as boarders which also limits where a person to keep them. In short you had better be a very experienced horse person with the right place to own a stud or lots of money to keep them at a facility that will/can 



LazyGRanch713 said:


> It was in the rescue contract that Tag be neutered at or before 6 months. I didn't want to, but I respected the rescues wishes and I signed a contract stating I would. He was neutered at 6 months old...to the day. I worry about that.
> Dude was neutered at 8 weeks, and his legs have been crap since he was 2 years old.
> Auz was neutered at 2 years and he's got arthritis at 5 1/2 years, but the general agreement between a few vets and the breeder is this was due to lacking nutrition in his growth stages. Poor dog.
> And Tag is VERY interested in my trainers female corgi. (Doesn't help that every time they see eachother, the corgi goes belly-up and spreads her legs open, lmao!!!) Tag knows he should be interested...he just doesn't know why
> ...


My dogs are all JRTCA reg'd Jrts  Thanks, I think they are wonderful but then don't we all thing our dogs are (or at least we should lol)


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