# Doberman vs German Shepherd



## Kevin2011 (Oct 4, 2010)

This is my first post so I'd like to start with Hello, I'm Kevin!
anyway.. 

This won't be my first dog BTW, I just never had one of these dogs. I've had boxers, pitbulls, and a lab mix.

I always wanted a German Shepherd, but I have been reading a lot about these two breeds. This isn't a thread about fighting! I just would like to know what you guy/girls here think would suit me more, since I can't find too much about this. 

I'm 18 and in a month I'll leave for boot camp (USMC Resves. I'm buying puppy after bootcamp/AIT) When I come back I'll only have drill once a month so I wont be gone too much, I work part time at a retail store and also for my parents so I'm not gone too much at all, when I work for my parents I can take the puppy with me. 

I live in Mid-West America so a winter can get to -5 degrees and 100s in the summer very humid, which sucks! 
I run alot, every morning and would love to have a dog to run with, 3-5 miles a morning. (I heard not to run with a dog until they are one so I won't)

I love hunting, camping, swimming, being outside anytime pretty much, 3 foot snowy winters, 98 degrees summers. I would like my dog to do all these with me, we had a pitbull when I was small that went crazy when we went camping so we had to stop bringing her and I don't want this stuff to a be a problem, and by hunting I don't want a hunting dog just a dog that will be still and quiet. 

I've always loved larger breeds of dogs, I'm not looking for a guard dog but I do want it to kick ass if it has too, robber, rapist (For my girlfriend) other lose dogs, etc.

Also I'm trying to become a dog trainer, I have trained all my dogs before to some degree onless i was too small and im starting to read alot of books on different breeds/trains techq. also looking into a college for it. I have woods all around me and a creek about half mile back in the woods for my dogs to play in and a large fenced in yard.

I also plan on training for schutzhund sport, tracking mainly.

The BIGGEST thing and probably the thing I'm stuck on with the doberman is being a companion. I would like a dog who follows me around room to room and just wants to be with their master all the time. Ive read the GSD will watch you and make sure where you are and okay but other then that, that's it where as a doberman wants to be with you at all times everywhere you go, which makes sense, since the doberman was breed for a one man tax collector and the GSD to be a service dog.

If you made it to the end of this thanks for even reading it all!
I'm new to the breeds but I love dogs! So any advice would be awesome!

PS, its kinda late here and I'm tired so If i don't make sense or if i forgot to add something I'm sorry, I'll check this post as often as possible! Thanks again!


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

Hello, Kevin.

I would like to ask you some more questions and get a better feel of you and also clear up some things. 

1. German Shepherds are originally bred as herding dogs to herd very large flocks of sheep, not as service dogs. So, in effect, they have been bred to have a strong bond with their handler and to be able to "think on their feet" depending upon which lines or breeder you get the dog from. 

2. How much money do you plan to spend on this puppy and where do you plan to get one? With these two breeds specifically, you want to go to a reputable breeder who does testing on hips, eyes, and genetic disorders along with giving you a lifetime health guarantee of that dog.

3. What type of training books have you read? What type of methods do you use to train or will you use to train this puppy? This board is general not accepting or supportive of those who "manhandle" dogs by alpha rolls, rubbing their dog's nose in their messes, or using hitting to teach a dog anything. I'm not saying you are, but it's best to know how you are going to train your dog before you get it.

4.


> I've always loved larger breeds of dogs, I'm not looking for a guard dog but I do want it to kick ass if it has too, robber, rapist (For my girlfriend) other lose dogs, etc.


This is unacceptable to me personally. There is no way to know if your dog is going to attack someone and encouraging aggression in a dog is not the way to make a good attack dog. If you want a trained attack dog, you go through a schutzhund course with your dog, and your dog is maintained 100%.

Here's the deal Kevin. These two breeds are under a lot of flack about aggression, etc. If your dog WERE to bite someone and do harm, more than likely your dog is going to get put down and on the news will be stories about how GSDs and Dobermans should all be put to sleep. If you want protection, invest in pepper spray. Otherwise, I can't support your decision to get one of these breeds. In all honesty, you'd be doing more harm than good. A dog showing aggression to a human shouldn't be encouraged UNLESS there is a professional to help manage it. (Schutzhund is 5% bite and 95% obedience, just so you know.)

5. Both these dogs can have high prey drive. Meaning, in a hunting situation with moving prey, they will not be reliable to have around UNTRAINED. You said you plan to train these dogs but until you can give me a vague training plan of how you will train this I find it kind of iffy. These breeds can be tough to own and manage and they require a lot of time.

6. Is there a schutzhund club around you? I suggest going there, talking to the trainer, watching some of the dogs and talking to them about the sport and the different breeds. They will no doubt be very helpful. 

7. Is there BSL (breed specific legislation) against these two breeds in your area? Both these breeds are highly prejudiced against and this means that if you want to move away in the future, it may be hard to find someplace that will allow you to keep this dog.

8. How do you plan to pay for the dog, medical expenses, etc? GSDs are very prone to hip dysplasia which can mean $$$ down the road. Dobermans require money to crop ears if you would want to do that. They also have a lot of genetic problems if not bought with caution. Both of these breeds will cost around $1000-$1500
if bought from a reputable breeder and sold to a pet home, meaning they won't be shown.

9. Would you consider a rescue of either breed? It would be cheaper, already neutered/spayed, with known health/temperament. Young Dobermans and GSDs (3 months to 2 years) are often in shelters because people can not handle them. These dogs can be trained in schutzhund, are still young, and yet won't require you to get up every hour to let the puppy relieve itself. Also, you'd be saving a life. 

I know it sounds like I am being harsh, being mean, and even a bit know it all. But I respect both these breeds dearly and hope to own a Doberman one day. I just want to see this work out for both of you in the end. There are a lot of breeds that will cover these aspects you laid out though, I'm wondering why you gravitate towards the Doberman and GSD?


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

Awesome post Nil.

Just one more question. What do you plan to do with the dog if you were to be deployed?


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

1. Read everything you can find by Ian Dunbar, then go seek out more.
2. Both dogs require lots of socialization in the first 12 weeks of life.
3. Don't teach the dogs to bite, they already know that. Don't teach them to protect, they already know that.
4. Instead teach them Bite inhibition (look it up) and teach them to be friendly. If you feel threatened, then they will bark. Anyone who is not scared of a 90 lb dog barking at them, probably is not going to be stopped by one that bites.
5. When you and your girlfriend get married and have kids, a bite inhibited dog will not bite the kids. Safest method.
6. You have difficult requirements. A shepherd can take the cold, but a Dobie can take the heat.
7. Personally, I recommend a Lab. Easier to train, will run with you, will bark on cue, won't bite from fear. Loves to romp.


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## Kevin2011 (Oct 4, 2010)

Nil,

1. I have watched Dog 101, breed all about it, and read different websites saying Captian Max von Stephanitz breed it for a service dog. I'm not saying your wrong at all, just what i have read.

2. I always planned of getting a good breeder with tests, I just haven't been looking for one yet since I won't buy it for more then half of a year. Also I figured the puppy would cost $1000 and up.

3. I wouldn't hit my dog, or rub its nose in poo even if its on the new couch lol, positive renforcement works great for me, a clicker worked pretty well on my boxer, as for the books I'll edit this post with the title and author when I get home.

4. I just want a dog that could defend, I'm in not wanting agression. I undersatnd where your coming from but I would like a dog trained sort of like a police K9, and again I understand that takes ALOT of training from professionals even but still, I can dream.

5. Since I'm so new to this type of training I would get a professionals help in hunting.


6. At this time I can't find one, I did a quick google search because I'm on break at work and will look into this more when I get home.


7. I don't live in city limits, and honestly I didn't know if there are, I don't think there is but I will check that for sure.

8. My dogs won't go unhealthy, I'm new to this stuff (again I admit it lol) and I don't know how often I will have to take them to the vet a year, but at least once for check ups and any shots they need, if not more. I plan on paying them with the money I earn from my jobs.

9. Yes I would consider that, I am volunteering at a local pet shelter just to be around different types of dogs. This is a No kill shelter too which makes it all the better!

I have a lot to learn so be as harsh as you want, as long as your giving me good info I appreciate it. I gravitate towards the Doberman and GSD because they are both some of the smartest dogs and best guard dogs. 


Katielou, I would leave the dog to my parents who work at home and had dogs their entire life. This is a good home I just bet they won't train her/he as much as I would.

Hanksimon, I will take that advice! Thanks! BTW girlfriend has a lab, they are awesome fun loving dogs!

I really got to go, but thank you to all of you and will check this post again tonight! Thanks again!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> would like a dog who follows me around room to room and just wants to be with their master all the time. Ive read the GSD will watch you and make sure where you are and okay but other then that, that's it where as a doberman wants to be with you at all times everywhere you go, which makes sense, since the doberman was breed for a one man tax collector and the GSD to be a service dog.


As a GSD owner, I can tell you that you basically have it backwards. My friends with Dobermans do the "Oh hey, I see you there", but are much more independent than the GSD. The GSD is the "I want to be with you always!" kind of dog.

The GSD is also a "one man" dog. The GSD was bred to do many different kinds of service work...but all of those jobs involved the dog working with ONE handler for the duration of it's life.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

Glad to see you back Kevin!

According to the American Kennel Club and United Kennel Club German Shepherd Dogs were originally bred as herders of large stock, those are my sources. Now, I could see some German Shepherds being bred to be service dogs, but their origin is of herding is still my belief.



> Captain Max Von Stephanitz began breeding several different kinds of German herding dogs to create one that could work under all conditions. This is why the Standard focuses on the well-bred German Shepherd Dog that has the gait to allow him to trot around the sheep (a "living" fence) all day, guard the shepherd and the sheep, and provide loyal companionship to the shepherd.
> -The German Shepherd Dog Club of America


However, we can agree to disagree. 

It sounds like you really do have a good perception of what you are doing and I respect that. It's quite wonderful to see how thought out you have been so far.

In all honesty, I would say that you should pour over Ian Dunbar's articles as Hanksimom said and check out the free downloads on puppies (Before and After Getting a Puppy) at Dog Star Daily

Look at both the German Shepherd Dog Club of America for articles, faqs, a list of responsible breeders, etc.

I would do the same with the Doberman Pinscher Club of America. Read up on both, do as much research as you can on these sites. Both these sites involve people who love these breeds and work hard training and educating others.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

You've gotten good advice here, but there is one thing I want to address.

I'm assuming you're not hunting upland game or ducks (because if that were the case I presume you would want a bird dog), and I don't really know a ton about hunting, but at least for deer bringing a dog along is a bad idea. First of all the deer are going to smell him and not come anywhere near you, you can't keep him totally still and silent that long it's just not going to be fun at all for the dog, and hunting deer with dogs is EXTREMELY illegal. So illegal I wouldn't even think of putting the dog in a situation where he might even THINK about chasing a deer. Plus mixing your dog with deer during hunting season is dangerous, even if he's wearing a blaze orange vest. The risks and consequences drown out any possible fun or benefit for owner or dog when bringing a dog along on a hunt that isn't expected to hunt.


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## l2andom (Aug 30, 2010)

Xeph said:


> The GSD is also a "one man" dog. The GSD was bred to do many different kinds of service work...but all of those jobs involved the dog working with ONE handler for the duration of it's life.


I'm actually in the military and our K9 handlers, every time they move to a new duty station get a new/different dog. A lot of times when they deploy they get different dogs also, because a narcotic dog doesn't really do any good when looking for explosives. Most of the dogs are GSDs or Belgian Malinois. 

And the heat will be a big factor. Yes it does get 115+ to the places I've deployed and have had my K9 buddies and their dogs around, but the dogs are constantly kept in AC until needed. Dogs getting AC/good temp actually take priority over the people :]. Best thing about being K9 handler I guess, because you get the AC with your dog while everybody else is roasting ;x.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> A lot of times when they deploy they get different dogs also, because a narcotic dog doesn't really do any good when looking for explosives.


Yes...the handler. But that doesn't tell you anything about how the DOG adjusted. As a general whole, the GSD is a one man dog. They can readapt, but it isn't easy for a lot of them.


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## Kevin2011 (Oct 4, 2010)

Nil, First off It's good to be back! and Thank you for your kind words lol I really do want nothing but the best for my future dog! I will check out Ian Dunbar's stuff for sure!
Thanks for the sites btw!

RaeganW, I don't want to really hunt deer or ducks with a dog, I won't take him hunting where he has to sit still for long, I'm thinking about it more and more, as for him chasing a deer? No way. He could get hurt by one of those things for no reason. I'll just take him in the woods mid day so he can chase rabbits or something lol

About the military thing, thats not the smartest thing... they should keep the dog and trainer together as much as possible. Just my 2 cents lol

I thank you all for your advice! If i missed something I'm going to read over this post many times lol


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Kevin, what do you find to be the ideal temperament in a dog? When you are looking at a dog's traits, what do you prioritize? 

Personally, I think both German Shepherds and Dobermans are very much "velcro dogs"... with the Doberman Pinscher taking it a bit further than the GSD. German Shepherds will follow you from room to room and gravitate around you even off leash and outside with distractions. A Doberman Pinscher will often follow you from room to room and insist on touching you in some way, or at least being right up in your face. 

German Shepherds deal better with cold weather than Doberman Pinschers do, but my GSD, with his dark double coat, hates hot weather and would rather be hanging out in the shade than hiking (so would I, for the record!).

Also, in all technicality, the German Shepherd Dog was not created for the sole purpose of herding, but from herding stock as an all purpose working dog. 

And I would take whatever Dogs 101 says with a very, very small grain of salt.


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## l2andom (Aug 30, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Yes...the handler. But that doesn't tell you anything about how the DOG adjusted. As a general whole, the GSD is a one man dog. They can readapt, but it isn't easy for a lot of them.


I understand. I was just saying that a lot of our GSDs/Malinois end up with multiple handlers throughout the course of their careers due to this. They dont like moving the dogs because they have a fear of 'new' dogs bringing any foreign diseases that the current dogs in the kennel aren't used to. 

I've always been for the whole, dog goes with handler to wherever he goes, but I'm in the middle of the totem pole and my voice doesnt carry that high up ;x
When I first found out, I questioned multiple kennel masters. But they said *that's how its written and told and that is how it will be done*. :\


I apologize for taking this off topic.

GSD's are great dogs, I grew up with them. But what someone said earlier about deploying, that is what has kept me from having a current dog. The past 6 years I have been outside of the US for about 3-4 of them. The longest I've been home is 6months before being sent out again. But you're going Reserves, so hopefully that will allow you plenty of time for whatever pup you decide on.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> They dont like moving the dogs because they have a fear of 'new' dogs bringing any foreign diseases that the current dogs in the kennel aren't used to.


Which is smart. You don't want to introduce new diseases if you don't have to. And again, I'm not saying the dogs DON'T adjust, but for the herders and working breeds, it can be very difficult for them.

My husband is also currently an active USMC officer, just finishing his training. Deployment is a concern for him, but because he married me, Ms Dog Nut, it's not concerning for our dogs, as I will always be around for them.

That said, we have put off our new working line puppy for awhile longer (It was an extremely hard decision) because we will be moving twice more in the next year, and we want to be more financially and geographically stable before we introduce the new dog. It's going to be hell as is in order to find housing for our current crew. Can't wait until we have THREE GSDs and the cat.


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## Kevin2011 (Oct 4, 2010)

My ideal temperament is a dog that is clam when things are clam and very active when it's time to be active, of course I don't expect that from a puppy. I'm very glad these dogs want to be with their owner. 

It's awesome your husband is going to be an officer, I thought about that too at one point lol


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## Pynzie (Jan 15, 2010)

katielou said:


> Just one more question. What do you plan to do with the dog if you were to be deployed?


I was wondering about this too. 

You've gotten some really great advice. It's great to see someone who takes advice well! That doesn't always happen. If you want to be a good trainer, stick around here and keep that ready to learn attitude. There are soooo many great people here who know a ridiculous amount about dogs. You'll learn a lot.


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## psbatth (Mar 7, 2012)

hi my name is Puneet i have had 4 GSD's and 2 dobe's till date . if u plan on having a dog outdoors all the time doberman is not the right choice. dobe's left alone will start to get bored and start destroying things and they are good at that so good that my female doberman was a lovely dog but when i got a GSD my mom exclaimed ,"this guy is good she was too intelligent to be a dog." however GSD's are also very intelligent not as smart as the dobe in my experience but far more internal discipline and obedience . still one must know that the dog responsible for highest no of dog bites is the GSD not the pitbull not the dobe not the rotti but there are no bad dogs only bad owners 
on the other hand if u r planing to keep the dog in doors DO NOT GET A GSD plz do not . i just moved to bay area usa from north india where weather conditions are just like yours and we have mostly marble floors however the difference i have noted in the houses is wooden floors or wall to wall carpeting. it was a menace for us to see the hair of GSD every where despite being groomed every alternate day plz trust me when i say take the GSD shedding seriously in consideration.
GSD pro's--> 1. discipline has the obedience of a soldier will never say NO I WONT
2. weather proof . even in summers all a GSD needs is shade and water if u do not get it used to the comforts of an AC 
3. GSD is a calm dog as compared ti the dobe and not as destructive 
4. can be brought up from a pup to a good adult dog even by an inexperienced owner.
5. independence: this dog has the ability to live eight to ten hours alone without destroying your house or yard and wait for u patiently .
CONS-->1. SHEDDING : hair everywhere and i mean no matter where in the house u r how much u groom ur dog u will get hair .
2. long coat means u have to be more careful and check the coat throughly for skin diseases as the surface hides most of whats going under those long locks
3. hip displacia is something that u have to really look out for coz it cripples a dog and is painful to even look at a dog go through that.
4. because of the independent nature some mature GSDs stop taking inexperienced owners seriously and just ignore their commands turning a def ear to them
DOBERMAN pro's-->1. unlimited enrgy: this is a dog on permanent steroid boost the energy level never falls and can accompany u where ever when ever and how ever 
2. a dobe is bigger and heavier than a GSD and that mean look no one will dare enter ur place just looking at the dog even if ur dog may be a total candy loving couch potato 
3. a dobe is probably the words easiest dog to train and who ever tells u otherwise is probably a breed fan boy and u get plenty of those.
4. courage : nothing beats the boldness of a dobe absolutely nothing if the GSD is a soldier then the dobe is special forces with a bit of bruce lee and a sprinkle of chuck norris . since u know about the marines u must also know that doberman was the official dog for us marines and that the war dog memorial has the statue of a doberman against all breeds and if the marines picked the dobe as a war dog then it has to be something .
5. innovative : a dobe is very innovative and will invent ways to get through or around a problem which is there in GSD too but to a very minimal degree.
6. health : a dobe compared to a GSD has fewer health problems but then luck is a bitch and i have also seen GSD who have lived very healthy lives where as some dobes who were always sick .. but on an average the dobe is a healthier dog than the GSD 
7. retention factor : in my experience a dobe has a better retention of everything right from tanning to ticks to mischief compared to a GSD
8. a dobe is the quickest dog in the size ratio other than the dedicated runners like the greyhound and afghanhound . no guard dog has as much speed and endurance as the dobe u just dont get that mix of speed power and endurance
cons-->1. destructive when left alone . where a GSD will maybe ruffle up some soil to sit in a cool place a dobe will not just break things but distroy things out of boredom .
2. repeat offender : this dog will wait for u to look away to start with what u just told him not to and i am so serious tell ur dobe not to chew on the toy and he will stop wait for u to move out of the room and start at it again and stop when it senses u coming back
3. energy : it is also a pro and a con too . fewer dogs need as much work out as a dobe . needs lots of space . if u r not prepared to run like an athlete and wrestle like the rock do not get a dobe.
4. perception : probably the most misunderstood of all breeds the dobe is hated by lot of people without even the knowledge of the dog but then they are stupid . however if u have a dobe and no mater how sweet he is u will mostly be feared .
both dogs are good with children
both need firm handling though dobe more than GSD
both need lods of work out , dobe more than GSD
both are excellent family pets dont listen to what people say
both are good guard dogs though dobe more than GSD
both are very very intelighent , dobe more than GSD
both are v.v obidient though GSD more than dobe at times

in my opinion i would consider a dobie or dobe as u might write to be a better dog for me as i like a bigger faster stronger dog and rate intelligence over obedience . however the ease of a GSD's understanding behaviour is a blessing . 
dobe= supermodel troublesome girl friend 
GSD= beautiful nurse wife 
the choice is urs 
however i would want u to consider pointer , blood hound , Irish setter , ridge-back , and dogo argentino too .
do let me know onthe blog if u have already amde up ur mind...
have a great day


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

This thread is nearly two years old.


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