# Spiteful Seperation Anxiety, Pees on Couches and Bed



## tlec (Jul 14, 2014)

Hello everyone, this is our first post on here!

I have a beautiful and very intelligent pure bred standard American Eskimo boy named Kobe. He just turned 5 and is not yet spayed because we planned on mating him soon. He is polite, kind, well mannered, basically the PERFECT dog, except for this one problem.

He's not an anxious dog by any means, very calm actually. But I used to be able to take him to work when I first got him when he was 12 weeks old. So he was spoiled for the first year that I had that job. Since leaving that job, he wasn't as bad at first when home alone, peeing in corners here and there.

Well another year after that he graduated to peeing on our couches out of pure spite. We know this because he is potty trained in every other way. When we are home with him he NEVER has any accidents and can hold himself for a very long time. But if we leave him only for even 20 minutes (we did a test), we come home to a couch with urine on it. If we leave him in our bedroom he jumps on our bed and pees right on our pillows.

We don't know what else to do but make him wear a doggy diaper (with a maxi pad) when we leave. But this is just (literally) putting a band aid over the problem. Because there are times when we are in a hurry and forget to put the diaper on him and come home to an agonizing 30 minute job of scrubbing our couches.

Does anyone know if this can be treated or corrected? And if so how?

PLEASE HELP US AND KOBE! thx


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Dogs don't have the capacity for spite. 

Do you think it really is separation anxiety? If so, try DAP plug-ins, a Thundershirt, herbal anti-anxiety products. If the anxiety is bad, do consider prescription anti-anxiety meds; they can really help. 

It may be general stress (not necessarily related to separation). Is his life fairly stable? Has anything weird happened lately? How do you react when you come home and find that he's peed on something?

How often is he taken out? It actually sounds like he never was fully housetrained, so it might be a good idea to go back to potty training 101---treat him like a new puppy, take him out frequently, praise/treat heavily for pottying outside, never leave him unsupervised except in a crate, etc.

I will also urge you not to breed a dog with separation anxiety, or with any unexplained behavioral issues. Temperment is largely genetic and you don't want to pass that on.


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## tlec (Jul 14, 2014)

When we are around him he is the most chillest dog ever. He has a calm demeanor and likes to just lay around. But he is also very active and in great shape.....I am a runner and take him running a few miles often.

His life is very stable other than we dog sit from time to time now. But this problem has been like this for years, even before we started dog sitting.

To be honest, I get very angry at him when I come home and find his pee all over my couches.

He is taken out at least 3 times a day which is plenty for him. On the weekends when we stay home all day, if we forget to take him out for a few hours it's no big deal. He can hold it well. Again, theres only this issue when we leave. We have even tried taking him out first, he did his thing, then we left (for a very short time period) and he still peed on the couch.

As far as crates, if left in there he will bark violently non stop until let out. He HATES the crate.

When I got him he was shipped to me in a crate on a plane. Maybe that's why?


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

How are you cleaning the couch? Are you using a product specifically designed to remove pet odors? If not, he may smell residual urine and think it's an appropriate place to go.

I agree with Willowy, that it's not spite. If he was urinating in the house when you first started leaving him home, it's possible that he never was house trained to begin with. Since you said you get very angry with him when you find that he's urinated on your sofa, he may be fine while you're home out of fear.

You might try going back to house training basics - have eyes on him or confine him (ex-pens or baby gates work if a crate doesn't) to prevent accidents, take him out on a regular schedule (and it may need to be more often than three times a day), and praise / reward for going outside.

I also agree with Willowy that you should not breed your dog. Please leave that to people with the appropriate knowledge.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

crate him. if you're in a situation where his barking won't bother anybody let him bark. have someone
come in throughout the day to give him a break. make sure you take him out often. a Vet visit maybe
in order to make sure there's no medical issue going on.

when it comes to breeding i would leave that to the professionals. how do you know your dog is worthy
of being bred? is your dog titled and tested? are his parents titled and tested? does he come from a line
of titled and tested dogs? what do you know about breeding?

don't be annoyed if you find a lot of people here are against "someone just breeding". everyone has the
best interest of the dog in mind.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

There are plenty of dogs that are perfectly fine and normal, then freak the heck out as soon as you walk out that door. The dog is stressed when you leave, which more than likely causes the accidents. I've known many dogs like this. Dog doesn't like the crate? Work on desensitizing your dog to the crate with 'crate games'. I'd also work on desensitizing your dog to your leaving. Try the calming collars, and thundershirt etc to see if it makes a difference. 

Also.. unless you plan on making sure every single one of those puppy goes to a well researched home AND you REQUIRE they return the pup/dog at any point if they decide they don't want it.. DON'T BREED. Yes.. NO puppy is allowed to end up in a shelter because you helped create them and you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives. Oh, and you should have your dog OFA'd, CERF and tested for other genetic issues in the breed. So should the mom. If the parents weren't also.. don't even think about it. We have plenty of dogs in this world.. don't breed unless you are doing the absolute best by the dog and the breed. 

I'm going to guess your dog isn't "breeding quality". Neither is my purebred Australian Shepherd and she has generations of titled and health tested dogs in her background. Don't be offended.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

"Spite" is a human motivation.

Sounds like time for crate training, or confining when you're not home to a room without soft surfaces (e.g. laundry room, bathroom).

There are so many puppies already available that I would question the wisdom in breeding a dog that has a behavior problem.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you get angry when you come home, he may spend all his time while you're gone worrying about what will happen when you get back :/. That could cause anxiety (and, yes, it started with his behavior but then it just made a vicious cycle. . .dogs can't reason like humans). 

Try staying super chill and calm when you get home. Don't even interact with him for 5-10 minutes. Sometimes even being greeted too enthusiastically can create separation anxiety. Put the belly band on him if it will help you not get angry. Do whatever you can to try to prevent the behavior (if he doesn't like crates, he may be OK gated in the bathroom or something like that), because the more often he does it, the more he'll get used to it, plus your anger plus his anxiety. . .it all builds up.


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## tlec (Jul 14, 2014)

Thank you for all your suggestions. I am quite surprised, this has turned more into a backlash about breeding him. I actually thought I was going to get yelled at a lot more about him not being spayed yet! lol

Yes he is registered, full AKC, from a champion blood line. His parents reside in Baton Rouge, LA and I had him shipped to me when he was about 12 weeks old. That took quite a lot out of him and he was very timid in the beginning with the whole new surroundings. I am sure this is where some of the problems are stemming from.











I am not 100% for sure I am going to breed him, it all depends if we can find another female with similar qualities. I just wanted to explain why he hasn't been neutered yet. Plus I wasn't sure if him not being nuetered had anything to do with his issue.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Honestly, one thing you need to ask yourself before breeding is, is does the world need copies of this particular dog? It's been five years since his difficult shipping experience. The problems may be related to it, but many dogs can bounce back from way worse things much more quickly. If your ongoing housebreaking and crating problem are purely a training issue - i.e. a problem with you, rather than a problem with the dog - then that's one thing, assuming all the health tests are done and come out well. But what you have now is a dog that doesn't tolerate being confined, and pees in corners and on furniture, that you describe as "spiteful." These behaviors are things that land dogs in the pound. This is not what people want in a house dog. He's adorable and and I'm certain he's a great dog and a wonderful part of your family, and I'm not trying to be harsh, but I would really think long and hard and realistically before putting him out to stud. If someone told me the sire of the pups I was considering persistently pissed all over the house and barked incessantly if not allowed to roam freely, I would be like NOPE regardless of how cute and fluffy they were.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

parus said:


> Honestly, one thing you need to ask yourself before breeding is, is does the world need copies of this particular dog? It's been five years since his difficult shipping experience. The problems may be related to it, but many dogs can bounce back from way worse things much more quickly. If your ongoing housebreaking and crating problem are purely a training issue - i.e. a problem with you, rather than a problem with the dog - then that's one thing, assuming all the health tests are done and come out well. But what you have now is a dog that doesn't tolerate being confined, and pees in corners and on furniture, that you describe as "spiteful." These behaviors are things that land dogs in the pound. This is not what people want in a house dog. He's adorable and and I'm certain he's a great dog and a wonderful part of your family, and I'm not trying to be harsh, but I would really think long and hard and realistically before putting him out to stud. If someone told me the sire of the pups I was considering persistently pissed all over the house and barked incessantly if not allowed to roam freely, I would be like NOPE regardless of how cute and fluffy they were.


I am going to second this. My intact male does not pee around the house, that is a training issue not an intact status issue. If it is a separation anxiety issue then you need to consider if that is something you want to be passing on genetically. Really though, has your dog had health testing done? You say "championship bloodlines" but what does that mean? Was his sire a champion? Was his Dam? Has your dog attained his own championship or proven himself in some working area? Why do his genes need to be passed on? 

I'm not going to criticize you for having an intact male dog, many members here dog and I myself have one. There are many reasons to leave a dog intact other than breeding. However I think you need to consider how you approach your dog behaviorally and your view on breeding.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Unless your dog himself is a champion, "champion bloodlines" means nothing. It's a tactic a lot of bad breeders use to make their dogs sound special. Often these dogs have a champion or two somewhere back in their lines, like a grandparent or great-grandparent. But even if you breed a champion to a champion, not all of the pups will be show/breeding quality.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

I would also note that "not breeding quality" doesn't mean that the dog isn't a super dog or a capable one. It just means they either have some fault that shouldn't be passed on, or are not superlative examples of their breed/type. They can still be great family dogs, pets, working dogs, sport dogs, etc. Neither of my dogs should ever in a million years be bred but both are useful, healthy, and agreeable animals that I am proud of.


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## tlec (Jul 14, 2014)

OK EVERYONE PLEASE RELAX. I repeat, I am not certain I am going to breed my dog. It was just a thought to explain why he isn't neutered. CHILL OUT. This is now turning into a bashing session against myself and my dog that is leading to no positive resolution.

CAN WE GET BACK TO THE POINT. I originally came to this forum and started this thread for HELP on possibly resolving an ongoing issues with my dog. Can you help? Because I really didn't come here to get lectured about another topic totally off subject.

Thank you.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Teach your dog to tolerate a crate and/or confined area.

Crate games work well with many dogs. They've been discussed a ton. Do a search. 

Then crate him when you're not home. No more pee on your bed and sofa.

Your dog's been allowed to pee in the house for years. This is an extremely established behavior. At this point for practical purposes I think it becomes more about managing the problem than about housebreaking.


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## hounddawg (Jan 10, 2012)

tlec said:


> OK EVERYONE PLEASE RELAX. I repeat, I am not certain I am going to breed my dog. It was just a thought to explain why he isn't neutered. CHILL OUT. This is now turning into a bashing session against myself and my dog that is leading to no positive resolution.
> 
> CAN WE GET BACK TO THE POINT. I originally came to this forum and started this thread for HELP on possibly resolving an ongoing issues with my dog. Can you help? Because I really didn't come here to get lectured about another topic totally off subject.
> 
> Thank you.


I agree with the crate training (never force him in, just use treats and toys to get him more comfortable to start) or some type of confinement in a small room (again, give him something to keep him entertained and work up the hours he can be left). He's peeing on your sofa and on your bed because he has access. Take away the access. 

Also, he's not doing it out of spite. He's probably stressed and anxious for any number of reasons. If it's separation anxiety, you can try the steps on the ASPCA's website: http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/separation-anxiety 

People have offered these suggestions in the thread already. 

One thing I would add is to not get angry about the peeing. I think dogs can pick up on that, especially if they're scolded or punished in any way. Be proactive so it doesn't happen instead of stressing everyone out after the fact.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

crate games overview


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

i am almost certain based on your description that your dog is terrified to pee in front of you. i bet if you stood outside with him it would take him a very long time to actually pee. also you would be wise to let him out more. when he pees ignore him, clean it up, carry on.

also no one is bashing you and your dog, we are saying please do not breed him. thats it. there is no good reason to breed this dog.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Also.. unless you plan on making sure every single one of those puppy goes to a well researched home AND you REQUIRE they return the pup/dog at any point if they decide they don't want it.. DON'T BREED. Yes.. NO puppy is allowed to end up in a shelter because you helped create them and you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives.


This is typically the responsibility of the owner of the bitch, not the owner of the stud. That's part of the problem with these arranged "CL" types of breedings - when the deed is done the owner of the stud happily collects the stud fee or pick of the litter and goes merrily on their way, oblivious to any neglect of duty by the other party and, consequently, whatever heartbreak may be left in the wake.

Sorry. Not to keep harping on the DON'T BREED aspect, but I think this is worth a mention.


As far as addressing the peeing issue, posters have already given you good thorough advice with regards to crating, cleaning up residual stains and smells, not yelling, praise and reward when he does go outside, a more frequent schedule, etc etc. If you put in the extra effort and follow those suggestions, things WILL improve.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

lots of animals prefer to pee on absorbent material guess they don't like the splash back


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## tlec (Jul 14, 2014)

Kayota said:


> i am almost certain based on your description that your dog is terrified to pee in front of you. i bet if you stood outside with him it would take him a very long time to actually pee. also you would be wise to let him out more. when he pees ignore him, clean it up, carry on.


That is a logical assumption but no, he loves to pee on everything. As soon as we take him out he pees on the first bush or tree he walks up on. He pees at least 4-6 times everytime he goes out, marking as many things as he can. 

We have been cleaning our couches with the Orange Oxi Clean pet spray which works really well, but now we are going to rent a Resolve steam cleaner and clean our couches and rug with that.

Looks like there's a lot of reading, researching, and training ahead for me and Kobe. Thanks again for all the helpful tips and advice!


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Three times a day just doesn't seem like enough, especially with a small dog. Since he clearly isn't holding it, I'd up his pee breaks to at least 6, 3 good length walks and 3 quick potty breaks. 

You really do need to stay calm about the peeing inside. Dogs are not capable of cause and effect reasoning like humans are. This is what's going on from his perspective: He pees because he's nervous because he's alone and scared. You come home and freak out. He doesn't know why you freak out, just that when owner comes home, owner is angry and owner scares him. Every time you leave, he knows you'll come back and be angry, so now he's even more scared of being alone. The poor dog has no idea what's going on, other than he's going to get yelled at by the person he loves most in the world for no apparent reason.


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## tlec (Jul 14, 2014)

Amaryllis said:


> Three times a day just doesn't seem like enough, especially with a small dog. Since he clearly isn't holding it, I'd up his pee breaks to at least 6, 3 good length walks and 3 quick potty breaks.


Its not an issue of him not getting enough potty breaks. We did a test where we took him out to go potty and then left right after (only for a short time) and he still did it.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

petpeeve said:


> This is typically the responsibility of the owner of the bitch, not the owner of the stud. That's part of the problem with these arranged "CL" types of breedings - when the deed is done the owner of the stud happily collects the stud fee or pick of the litter and goes merrily on their way, oblivious to any neglect of duty by the other party and, consequently, whatever heartbreak may be left in the wake.
> 
> Sorry. Not to keep harping on the DON'T BREED aspect, but I think this is worth a mention.


I'm quite aware of this.. just trying to let them know what SHOULD go into it. Also, it can happen. My breeder only owned Dad, but she was in charge of puppy stuff.


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