# American and Japanese Akita



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

They are considered one breed in the US, but pretty much everywhere else they aren't. 
I came across this picture that, to me, summed up just how different they are in their built. 









Source
American Akita on the left, Japanese Akita on the right. 

I was wondering though, why are they considered one breed in the US?


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Wow, there is a huge difference!! The one looks like a huge near lol. The other kinda resembles a husky.


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## Dog Dad (Nov 27, 2012)

The difference isn't always so obvious besides markings. Japanese Akitas simply being the strains that best hid the European blood used to keep the breed around. Many Japanese are less foxy and American more foxy. Without European blood, native Japanese dogs would have never topped 50lbs.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

I wouldn't say they're "the same breed" in the US. The American Akita is recognized by the AKC but the Akita Inu is not. If you tried to show an Akita Inu in the US under the American Akita standard, you wouldn't get very far.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I have a hard time believing those are the same breed. Mals and GSDs are much closer, look wise. You can really see the mastiff in the American version.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

They're not the same breed over here. AKC only recognizes the American Akita. The UKC recognizes both the Akita and Japanese Akita separately.


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## annadee (Aug 22, 2012)

Wow!! What a difference, I knew about the markings but not the size!! Both are gorgeous dogs nonetheless!!


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes the Japanese Akita Inu strongly resembles its smaller cousin, the Shiba Inu. But like others have mentioned I do believe, for the most part, they are recognized as separate breeds although some might be oblivious to the difference.

Was just gonna say, wow that particular American one looks an awful lot like a Mastiff. I've seen many that range in looks, but wow, that one especially is very 'Mastiffy'.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> They're not the same breed over here. AKC only recognizes the American Akita. The UKC recognizes both the Akita and Japanese Akita separately.


What I meant was that in the US (the AKC) only recognizes the 'Akita'. They don't call it the 'American Akita', right? It's 'Akita' and there's the not recognized version 'Japanese Akita' (or Akita inu, I don't know by what name they go over at yours). But why isn't the Japanese Akita recognized as well? I thought that was because there wasn't a need for it, because the already existing Akita form (American Akita) contained all forms and shapes of the breed. Hence my original question in my first post, why are they considered one breed. 

Maybe a better question would be: Why aren't they both recognized as separate breeds? (instead of just recognizing the 'Akita', the American version that is, and not recognizing the Japanese version) I'm really interested in knowing why. 

It was a bit confusing for me reading about Akitas in English at first, because I'm used to 'American Akita' and 'Akita', while in English it's 'Akita' and 'Japanese Akita'.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Huh, when we lived in Japan, our neighbors had a couple of Akitas, and they looked like the one on the left (well, not quite so "Mastiff-y" but close), definitely not like a big Shiba. I thought they got them in Japan. . .


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Huh, when we lived in Japan, our neighbors had a couple of Akitas, and they looked like the one on the left (well, not quite so "Mastiff-y" but close), definitely not like a big Shiba. I thought they got them in Japan. . .


I'm sure there are also American Akita breeders in Japan? 

But the Akita originates from Japan, and if it's anything like native breeds here and what I saw in Spain, then there's probably also a lot of unregistered breeding of Akitas in Japan. Like what happens here with stabyhoun and wetterhoun, and like what happens in Spain with podencos. You get dogs that are definitely that breed... but not registered, and varied in type. Not what you'd see on shows. Not 'perfect specimen', whatever those are.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Avie said:


> What I meant was that in the US (the AKC) only recognizes the 'Akita'. They don't call it the 'American Akita', right? It's 'Akita' and there's the not recognized version 'Japanese Akita' (or Akita inu, I don't know by what name they go over at yours). But why isn't the Japanese Akita recognized as well? I thought that was because there wasn't a need for it, because the already existing Akita form (American Akita) contained all forms and shapes of the breed. Hence my original question in my first post, why are they considered one breed.
> 
> Maybe a better question would be: Why aren't they both recognized as separate breeds? (instead of just recognizing the 'Akita', the American version that is, and not recognizing the Japanese version) I'm really interested in knowing why.
> 
> It was a bit confusing for me reading about Akitas in English at first, because I'm used to 'American Akita' and 'Akita', while in English it's 'Akita' and 'Japanese Akita'.


There are a lot of breeds that aren't accepted by the AKC so I would assume the Japanese akita is not an AKC breed for the same reason that other breeds are not AKC recognized. In order to be an AKC breed there needs to be a fairly decent population here and the interest at least by part of the breed to join the AKC. I am fairly certain that the AKC 'akita' is the American akita. I have never seen a Japanese style akita in shows.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Avie said:


> Not 'perfect specimen', whatever those are.


Ahhh the elusive "perfect specimen" I've yet to find one of those in any breed.


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## Dog Dad (Nov 27, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Huh, when we lived in Japan, our neighbors had a couple of Akitas, and they looked like the one on the left (well, not quite so "Mastiff-y" but close), definitely not like a big Shiba. I thought they got them in Japan. . .


This photo is comparing a very heavy structured male to a female to exaggerate the difference. All strains have mastiff and other European dogs in them or we wouldn't have them. Look at photos of the famous Hachiko and you can see it, he was considered one of the last handful of Akita at the time. The shift in what people want has a lot to do with what is exotic. Native Japanese dogs before foreign blood being added were all small-medium size and there wasn't an Akita.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Avie said:


> Maybe a better question would be: Why aren't they both recognized as separate breeds? (instead of just recognizing the 'Akita', the American version that is, and not recognizing the Japanese version) I'm really interested in knowing why.
> 
> It was a bit confusing for me reading about Akitas in English at first, because I'm used to 'American Akita' and 'Akita', while in English it's 'Akita' and 'Japanese Akita'.


There are a lot of breeds that are not recognized by the AKC, and there are recognized breeds in North America that are not recognized by European kennel clubs. The one I'm most familiar with, of course, is the American Eskimo/German Spitz pairing. Its a similar situation to the Akita - the breed originally started in Europe, but the two have since diverged (although not quite to the point of the Akita/Akita Inu), and AKC only recognizes the American Eskimo, and European KCs only recognize the German Spitz. Although you can register an American Eskimo as a German Spitz in some European clubs; it then becomes a Spitz and neither it nor its offspring can ever be registered with the AKC/CKC as an American Eskimo.

Dog breeds are too confusing to me, especially internationally. 

To further confuse matters, where most other countries only has one national kennel club, the USA has two - the UKC (United Kennel Club) and AKC (American Kennel Club).


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Dog Dad said:


> This photo is comparing a very heavy structured male to a female to exaggerate the difference. All strains have mastiff and other European dogs in them or we wouldn't have them. Look at photos of the famous Hachiko and you can see it, he was considered one of the last handful of Akita at the time. The shift in what people want has a lot to do with what is exotic. Native Japanese dogs before foreign blood being added were all small-medium size and there wasn't an Akita.


They had a male and a female and neither looked "foxy". They both looked like the dog on the left and the female was only slightly smaller. But now I'm looking at pictures of Japanese Akita Inu and I don't know what's up, LOL. I kinda doubt there were "American Akita" breeders in Japan 25 years ago. So now I'm just confused .


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Keechak said:


> Ahhh the elusive "perfect specimen" I've yet to find one of those in any breed.


Exactly


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

gingerkid said:


> There are a lot of breeds that are not recognized by the AKC, and there are recognized breeds in North America that are not recognized by European kennel clubs. The one I'm most familiar with, of course, is the American Eskimo/German Spitz pairing. Its a similar situation to the Akita - the breed originally started in Europe, but the two have since diverged (although not quite to the point of the Akita/Akita Inu), and AKC only recognizes the American Eskimo, and European KCs only recognize the German Spitz. Although you can register an American Eskimo as a German Spitz in some European clubs; it then becomes a Spitz and neither it nor its offspring can ever be registered with the AKC/CKC as an American Eskimo.
> 
> Dog breeds are too confusing to me, especially internationally.
> 
> To further confuse matters, where most other countries only has one national kennel club, the USA has two - the UKC (United Kennel Club) and AKC (American Kennel Club).


I didn't know about the American Eskimo and the German Spitz. That's interesting, and somewhat similar too, yes. I can think of more similar situations (thinks of my own breed and white GSDs) 
The whole AKC/UKC/CKC thing has always confused me. CKC is Canadian, right? AKC is American. But UKC is... a legit American kennel club as well? 



Willowy said:


> They had a male and a female and neither looked "foxy". They both looked like the dog on the left and the female was only slightly smaller. But now I'm looking at pictures of Japanese Akita Inu and I don't know what's up, LOL. I kinda doubt there were "American Akita" breeders in Japan 25 years ago. So now I'm just confused .


Hahah, well, I'll believe you on your word if you say there weren't any Am Akita breeders around when you lived in Japan. It's not like I've ever been there (though I'd love to). 
As far as I'm aware of, the Japanese Akita is a pretty 'new' breed, right? They were near extinct several times, and the breed was last 'resurrected' after WOII and they used several other breeds. But the Japanese had a certain type in mind they wanted to recreate, and the Akitas the Americans brought back with them became a population of themselves. Both groups, Japanese and American, developed apart from each other and that's how they got their different looks nowadays. 
Is this somewhat accurate? Or am I totally off?


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Avie said:


> I didn't know about the American Eskimo and the German Spitz. That's interesting, and somewhat similar too, yes. I can think of more similar situations (thinks of my own breed and white GSDs)
> The whole AKC/UKC/CKC thing has always confused me. CKC is Canadian, right? AKC is American. But UKC is... a legit American kennel club as well?


Yup. They're the second oldest kennel club in the USA, and one of the. To be honest, I like the UKC model better. From the wikipedia page:

"The UKC was founded by Chauncey Z. Bennett in 1898. The UKC states that Bennett formed the club in order to provide a registry for working dogs as opposed to the American Kennel Club's emphasis on dog conformation shows."

To further confuse matters, the British kennel club is just The Kennel Club.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah, the United Kennel Club is legit. They have conformation shows and lots of trials! Casper is registered with the UKC. I like how they've set up their groups -- Cas is in the Northern Breed group.

To further complicate matters, though, there are a lot of scam registries purposefully using the same acronyms as legitimate kennel clubs... registries like the Continental Kennel Club and the Universal Kennel Club. Some puppy mills use these registries so that their pups will have "papers" and people will think they're legit.


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## JJ Jones (May 3, 2008)

PackMomma said:


> Yes the Japanese Akita Inu strongly resembles its smaller cousin, the Shiba Inu. But like others have mentioned I do believe, for the most part, they are recognized as separate breeds although some might be oblivious to the difference.
> 
> Was just gonna say, wow that particular American one looks an awful lot like a Mastiff. I've seen many that range in looks, but wow, that one especially is very 'Mastiffy'.


yeah I agree the akita inu is like a shiba with longer legs.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

gingerkid said:


> Yup. They're the second oldest kennel club in the USA, and one of the. To be honest, I like the UKC model better. From the wikipedia page:
> 
> "The UKC was founded by Chauncey Z. Bennett in 1898. The UKC states that Bennett formed the club in order to provide a registry for working dogs as opposed to the American Kennel Club's emphasis on dog conformation shows."
> 
> To further confuse matters, the British kennel club is just The Kennel Club.





Crantastic said:


> Yeah, the United Kennel Club is legit. They have conformation shows and lots of trials! Casper is registered with the UKC. I like how they've set up their groups -- Cas is in the Northern Breed group.
> 
> To further complicate matters, though, there are a lot of scam registries purposefully using the same acronyms as legitimate kennel clubs... registries like the Continental Kennel Club and the Universal Kennel Club. Some puppy mills use these registries so that their pups will have "papers" and people will think they're legit.


Thanks for clearing that up. It's always been a source of confusion to me.


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## Taiheiyo-Kensha (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi everybody, I'm a little late to this thread. 

First let me introduce myself... my name is Sean, I am a member of both the AkitaInu Hozonkai as well as the Japanese Akita Club of America. I also breed Japanese Akitas(Akita Inus) here in the US. 

While reading through this post, I noticed a lot of confusion about how the American Akita and Japanese Akita/Akita Inu came to be. I wont go into detail about events before World War II, instead I will focus on the restoration of the Akita post World War II. 

The Akita is a regional dog that developed both in the major cities and rural communities. It was influenced by two distinct periods of cross-breeding. The first being 1806s-1900s where the desire to win in the dog fighting ring encouraged breeders to use Mastiff, Tosa, and just about anything of size. The second period was right before WWII, where some Japanese favored european military dogs (GSD is an example). As WWII continued, the Japanese government started buying and confiscating japanese dogs. The only except was dogs that had a military/police use. Many breeders in the north started breeding their dogs with GSD. <--- A lot of this is covered in the book The Dog Man. 

Post-War, Japan was left with a handful of Akitas throughout the country. Breeders along with the breed clubs like the Akitainu Hozonkai (AKIHO) started restoring the breed. The early dogs were from the Dewa line, had a very large build, and most had a black mask. Another line came from Ichinoseki Goma-Go. Dogs from the Dewa line became very popular with many of them making their way back to the United States. This group would become the foundation stock of the Akita population in the United States. Dogs from the Ichinoseki line were improved on and would become the foundation stock of the population in Japan. Here is a decent write up about the two lines: http://www.caccia.se/Akita_two_lines_sid_2.htm

Breeders were importing both types of akitas to the United States but significantly more Dewa based Akitas were sent over. As the years went on, more and more dogs from the Ichinoseki line started to win in the ring. You can see the change in the Akita here: http://akitainu-hozonkai.com/award/award_all.html 

By the early 70s the Akita was starting to change over here in the states as well. Akiho setup a branch in Los Angeles and soon more breeders were starting to register newly imported dogs with AKC. Looking at the Akiho award link, you'll see that around 1970 the Akita really started to change in Japan. About the same time (1972/3), the AKC closed it's stud books to imports from Japan. This is the moment that allowed the AKC Akita to become the modern day American Akita. Imports would not be allowed for almost 20 years. 

Japanese dogs were still being imported into the United States but only Akiho would register them. In Europe, breeders were still allowed to import and eventually FCI would vote to split the breed.
However the United States would still have one breed of Akita until the United Kennel Club recognized the Japanese Akita in 2012. Today AKC is still one akita. 

Anyway i hope this helps clear things up or at least makes it a little less confusing. BTW I strongly recommend The Dog Man it is a good read. Also if you are interested in seeing a Japanese Akita show, JACA and Akiho LA will be having their shows Feb 9 and 10th 2013 at Johnson Park in Gardena California.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Taiheiyo-Kensha, thanks so much for your story! It added a whole lot of information.


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## nkmccoy2007 (Nov 18, 2012)

I LOVE the American Akita as far as looks go, but i also love the Japanese Akita colors. Im looking to purchase my 1st Akita very soon.


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