# This is the dog I know and love. (Molly - BC + Ball)



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Sometimes, I think most of my frustration with Molly being so reactive is that the dog I know and live with isn't what the public sees. Even when she's not reactive and is being incredibly good, they just don't get to see her shine. 

And man, she can shine. 



























































































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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I guess maybe that's what really bothered me last night - more than making my dog uncomfortable or implying I broke her. It was that this woman seemed to see this profoundly broken dog, who was so terrified of everything that she was non-functional. Molly HAS issues, but she's also a sweet, goofy, loving, smart, intense, willing, beautiful dog and if she'd just paid a little more attention - she would have seen at least some of that, even with Molly outside of her comfort zone. 

Come down on me all you want, but dang it my dog is an awesome freaking dog.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

She IS awesome! I love Molly!


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

She _is_ freaking awesome!

I have the same feelings about Tyson. He's such a happy little boy, smart, cuddly. Unfortunately, most people just see barking and cowering.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I just get so tangled up inside my head about the whole thing.

On one hand, I am about 95% sure if I could get people to leave her alone for a year (maybe even 3-4 months) and treat her basically the same way I did Kylie I'd emerge with a dog who was okay and solid. She needs to be around people and dogs, she needs to work around people and dogs, and if I can get some focused work on her reactivity with the trainer all the better. Cart her to agility trials and practices, do the classes, let her gain confidence in her own safety and in me keeping her safe and let. it. go. This is where I live most of the time.

But every once in a while I want to pull my hair out, and my confidence goes through the floor and I fall into this pit of honestly believing I broke my dog. I mean, 2 of 3 puppies I've raised have or had some sort of issue with strange people and/or dogs, and also why haven't I managed to fix Molly yet?!?! It's not logical, but seeing her afraid and melting down breaks my heart and I want to make it better for her. 

And I want to grab and shake people and sort of scream "I SOCIALIZED HER! I KNOW WHAT I AM DOING!" and follow it up with "Look, what you're seeing? This isn't what life with her looks like. She's a *good* dog, she's a well trained dog, she is a *sweet* dog." 

I don't know. I have a lot of feelings about this stuff, lately. Most of them just centered around the fact that I really, really, love this dog and she's a great dog and she's, believe it or not a REALLY friendly dog! And I feel pretty helpless when we crash - or at least I feel like nothing I'm doing is really helping her. Two steps forward, one back, and I know that's normal but it makes me hurt for her.

*ETA: * And yeah, I'm basically paralyzing myself, mentally and am aware of it.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

What about something like this? Would that help? I know it would have helped me and Zoey a couple years ago. 



Unfortunately I totally understand your pain. It really sucks when other people ruin the progress you have made by their insistence to "help". I just finished teaching a puppy class and there is a family that has an ACD puppy. They have had ACD's before but it's been awhile and this puppy has a lot of fear issues going on, combined with the desire to also "guard" the family members, particularly one of the daughters. I spent a lot of extra time with them before/after class, specifically demonstrating the types of interactions this puppy needs and the types that will be bad for her. I flat out told the whole class one day...you do or say whatever it is you have to do in order to keep your puppies feeling safe. Whether that means getting a harness patch, picking them up and leaving or if that means you have to yell at the unhelpful stranger who refuses to give you space on the street that your puppy has ringworm and is contagious, then do it! Because interactions just like you had last night with Molly, are what will cause this puppy to get worse rather than better, and fast.

ETA: That patch belongs to someone who has trained with my friend and they were working with her dog through lots of fearful re-activity stuff. He has come a long way and I know having the patch gives her more confidence when she it out with him. She had it custom made by a collar maker we all order collars from.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

https://www.etsy.com/shop/PatienceandLove143?section_id=13789359&ref=shopsection_leftnav_3

Or like this ^^


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

You're right, Molly is awesome! Almost everyone on the outside thinks my dogs are nuts, they don't get to see the good sides that I see. They are awesome 99% of the time, but usually that 1% is what everyone else sees depending on the situation. Don't take what people say to heart or get frustrated when all they can see with their tunnel vision is the more frustrating and/or obnoxious side of your dog. You will probably never meet these people again in your life.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

kadylady said:


> What about something like this? Would that help? I know it would have helped me and Zoey a couple years ago.


YES! Also just as you posted that link I was seeing if I could find anything even remotely similar on etsy, so thanks for that.

My saving grace with the headgame this is turning into for me is that my trainer *is* seeing the same things in Molly that I am - and that is that she is a basically friendly dog - with dogs AND people - but who gets freaked out and just really wants some freaking space and resorts to growling/barking/lunging as a means of getting it. Classical fear reactivity, basically. She has a HUGE repertoire of truly friendly behavior, when she feels safe (with people and dogs). It doesn't even take much for her TO feel safe, most of the time. She doesn't go after anyone or anything, ever. 

Sometimes she's danged close to being fairly normal and then something happens and she either doesn't feel safe *OR* her losing her crap makes the other dog/thing 'go away' and reinforces it. 

So yeah, vest time. If I can't get the focused training with our trainer, I'm just going back to my original teaching plan hardcore: Nothing out that is important to you, will hurt you, or is something you need to worry about.



jade5280 said:


> You're right, Molly is awesome! Almost everyone on the outside thinks my dogs are nuts, they don't get to see the good sides that I see. They are awesome 99% of the time, but usually that 1% is what everyone else sees depending on the situation. Don't take what people say to heart or get frustrated when all they can see with their tunnel vision is the more frustrating and/or obnoxious side of your dog. You will probably never meet these people again in your life.


Well. I'll certainly be seeing the agility people again, but honestly I'm rapidly losing the ability to care on that front. So, same thing


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

I really wish I had thought of getting something like that for Zoey. I know it would have helped me help her better. Zoey is the same in the sense that, when she feels safe she's perfectly happy and normal and a great agility dog. She is different from Molly in that when she feels unsafe she doesn't react forwardly about it, she melts into a puddle of scared helplessness. And maybe, if she were more vocal and forward about her fears I would have helped her better and been able to stand up for her better. But back then I didn't know enough and I didn't stand up for my dog. Now I do. I have told more people "no" in the last year when it comes to my dogs than I have in all the years I've had my dogs. And I am not a person who is comfortable saying no. But dang it.... NO! Leave my dogs alone!

ETA: Whoa....I got a little ranty there!  Sorry!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Part of what kills me about Molly is that while she's the one who is forward aggressing and screaming "STAY BACK" is that she is about a billion times friendlier AND less likely to snap at someone than Kylie. Kylie is now a fairly confident dog who likes who she likes but she is not a fan of being handled by people she doesn't live with and never has been. She used to melt down a bit like Zoe, but doesn't do that these days and hasn't in years - but she also doesn't really like much of anyone, not really. She'll go to them for food, she'll let whoever hold her leash while I walk a course or whatever, but she doesn't like people and she doesn't really like MOST other dogs. 

Molly does. Molly's afraid and that's a problem, but GOD KNOWS she gives appropriate warnings and... as odd as it sounds? She likes people. She likes dogs. You give her half a chance to know you and she will be climbing you to give kisses or play bowing at the dog. Somehow that almost makes it sadder for me. 

But anyway, I just bought a couple of 'no touch, no talk, no eye-contact' patches and a julius harness. That SHOULD help in general. Along with me being a lot more aware that people are idiots in places I didn't expect them to be. I thought I'd toughened up and learned to stand up for my dogs with Kylie, but apparently not as much as I thought. Time to step up my game on that front.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

It's frustrating to have a dog that's so, so different in public. Muggsy ... I know people wondered why I kept such a horrid beast. He wasn't, though. He was smart, so smart, and loving and sweet and fun. He was my best friend, my soul mate, and then we'd go outside or go to the vet and he was a monster. I eventually got him under control (it took a long time), but you'd get idiots who wanted to pet the (huge, dangerous looking) puppy! or whose dogs were so friendly! 

ugh.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I really do wish more people truly saw Molly the way I do. The trainer does see a lot of what I do, but even she hasn't experienced Molly being truly Molly. You know, the dog who is full of joy and love and life and energy and is this beautifully willing, smart, loving dog who will turn herself inside out for a ball or a disc and can ignore the whole wide world, recall off of deer or birds, who shuts everything out and just lets go and is JOYFUL. 

It makes me sad. She's a fantastic dog. A LOT of these dogs are fantastic dogs. Mugsy and Gypsy and Ryker and WATSON and it really, really illustrates how a glimpse of a few minutes or even hours doesn't really let you know what the real picture is.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Molly is a very good dog. She has already come such a long way. Don't let the stupid bother you. The dog people see isn't always the dog that actually IS. There are tons of perfect dogs that I deal with at work that owners tell me are hellions at home. 

I have yet to have someone tell me how to fix Kairi. If that day comes, I will laugh in their faces, hand her over and laugh some more when they figure out all they can do is try to manage her. She is the absolute best dog at home.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

One of my favourite quotes for a situation like this... "Dear everyone, don't judge my story based on the chapter you walked in on."

If someone is going to judge my dog and my skills based on a five minute interaction, they clearly aren't worth my time, because those are the type of people who read the caption in an article, think they have the story without reading it, and go on to spew something that they know nothing about.

Molly is a great dog for what she is, and you do a great job with her. That's all that should matter.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Molly is a very good dog. She has already come such a long way. Don't let the stupid bother you. The dog people see isn't always the dog that actually IS. There are tons of perfect dogs that I deal with at work that owners tell me are hellions at home.
> 
> I have yet to have someone tell me how to fix Kairi. If that day comes, I will laugh in their faces, hand her over and laugh some more when they figure out all they can do is try to manage her. She is the absolute best dog at home.


 I'm more relaxed about the whole thing, now. Somehow every time I get to talk to the person I actually pay to help me with my dogs and who *knows my dogs*, I end up feeling less like strangling other people about general dog related things. And less helpless, in general. I'm still not sure when we're going to be able to get together and work on the reactivity in a more focused way since life's kind of busy and there are three of us who need to have our schedules mesh, but it's something we're working toward. Plus, well, Andrea sees Molly as Molly - not completely, but the good parts, too - and that helps. 



missc89 said:


> One of my favourite quotes for a situation like this... "Dear everyone, don't judge my story based on the chapter you walked in on."
> 
> If someone is going to judge my dog and my skills based on a five minute interaction, they clearly aren't worth my time, because those are the type of people who read the caption in an article, think they have the story without reading it, and go on to spew something that they know nothing about.
> 
> Molly is a great dog for what she is, and you do a great job with her. That's all that should matter.


Thank you - and that's a great quote.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Harness ACHIEVED. In time for vacation, AND tomorrow's training group.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Yay! That looks great! Curious to know how you like it and how it works with the general public.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I will let you know as soon as I have a chance to test it out. I got it a couple of hours ago. Her initial reaction was INTENSE WOE. Then I waved a ball at her and she forgot it existed. That's about all we've done with it so far. Tomorrow will be test 1, I suppose. Then we're off this weekend for vacation so after that, I'll have all the opportunity I never wanted to try it.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

As an aside, these patches are a little too big, so I'm probably going to go back after we get home and have ones that fit right (oops) made and have them just say "IGNORE ME". I think that covers it a lot more concisely.


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## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

I love Molly. and Love the patches. My aunt has one for her dog that simply says "I bite, stay away." The dog doesn't bite, but it keeps people away from him and is nearly as effective as when she would walk him with a muzzle to scare people off. Of course, 'Ignore me' seems like a better, less harsh way to go about it


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I'll be interested to see how this works out with changing public perception and interaction with her (or lack of) and how many people notice/pay attention. I might even later compare it to the one that just says 'ignore me'. I could be wrong, but I somewhat suspect Ignore me will work better, just because it's fewer words and therefore easier to take in at a glance instead of having to _read_. 

I also suspect if I stick a halti on her (I bought one of those, too) it'll have a similar affect as a muzzle in making people wary. Obviously it isn't one but the combination may well make her look intimidating enough to keep people at a distance. That would be a good thing.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Molly is gorgeous!! I have the same issue with Lucy- she was very well socialized, but she can only really be handled by about 5 people. But with me, she's just the nicest, sweetest, kind-hearted dog in the entire world. On the other hand, I have Lola who is a therapy dog and can be handled by anyone-- but she's not particularly sweet. Easy-going, insanely confident, and loves people, but in more of a "what can you do for ME?" Sort of way haha.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

LoMD13 said:


> Molly is gorgeous!! I have the same issue with Lucy- she was very well socialized, but she can only really be handled by about 5 people. But with me, she's just the nicest, sweetest, kind-hearted dog in the entire world. On the other hand, I have Lola who is a therapy dog and can be handled by anyone-- but she's not particularly sweet. Easy-going, insanely confident, and loves people, but in more of a "what can you do for ME?" Sort of way haha.


Lola and Kylie really do sound a lot alike, sometimes. A LOT. 

And Molly and Lucy, for that matter. 

-- Kadylady? Night and day with the harness. THe people here this time were mostly different, and so were the dogs, but people were friendly with me while utterly ignoring Molly. I know a bunch of agility nerds aren't the general public, but it worked and it helped. One person who is a friend and going to be using her dog as the decoy for the reactivity work later fed Molly - but after asking, and without acknowledging her (she turned her back, I led Molly up, Molly got the food) and overall it was just a much, much better experience. 

I also think that to some degree just wearing the harness calms her. I could be wrong about that - I don't want to say it shut her down because it didn't, but she seems just a little bit more even keeled with it on.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh and so it's not all text:









(I also tried the halti. Meh. It didn't make that much difference in any regard, and it did prove to be a pain in the butt. I probably won't bother with it again.)


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

CptJack said:


> -- Kadylady? Night and day with the harness. THe people here this time were mostly different, and so were the dogs, but people were friendly with me while utterly ignoring Molly. I know a bunch of agility nerds aren't the general public, but it worked and it helped. One person who is a friend and going to be using her dog as the decoy for the reactivity work later fed Molly - but after asking, and without acknowledging her (she turned her back, I led Molly up, Molly got the food) and overall it was just a much, much better experience.
> 
> I also think that to some degree just wearing the harness calms her. I could be wrong about that - I don't want to say it shut her down because it didn't, but she seems just a little bit more even keeled with it on.


Awesome! I'm so glad it worked for you! I really wish I had done something like this for Zoey when she was younger. I may still have to get her something like this.... She's so much more comfortable if people just ignore her and don't stare at her.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

kadylady said:


> Awesome! I'm so glad it worked for you! I really wish I had done something like this for Zoey when she was younger. I may still have to get her something like this.... She's so much more comfortable if people just ignore her and don't stare at her.


I will say I think I would be/will be more comfortable when the signage just says ignore me. There's something about the wording/phrasing in those patches that seems a little... aggressive to me. 

And honestly, I can see me using these harnesses on ALL the dogs, though not necessarily re: ignoring. DEAF for Bug, for instance, would be fantastic. Just the ability to communicate about the dog, in advance of someone being there and reaching is so, so much more hugely helpful than I ever imagined it would be. It cuts my anxiety, and would make things so much better for the dogs.

So, um. Yeah. Get her one.


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## Kingfisher (Jan 2, 2015)

I've always wanted to get one of these. We don't have any problems, but I'm a huge stickler about behavior in public. It's really tough to train when people assume "that dog is for petting". We were in a hardware store and I had Keeper in a down stay about 6 ft from me. A girl turned the aisle and squeals "look at the dog!!!", so I (much more for her benefit) give a stern "leave it" and was pretty obviously not wanting her to approach. But no, she marches right up and pets him. So frustrating. But I sometimes doubt the ability of people like that to read the harness anyway...

I was a little concerned about people thinking that vest = service dog. But I decided that it could very well bring awareness to the "stop means stop" mentality. I'd love to give service dog handlers an easier time, maybe by more people enforcing proper dog greeting/not greeting etiquette they might not have so many problems.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

There are some that just say 'in training' or whatever. I don't know, I am really not sure what I expect the impact of the vest to be when we're around 'non-dog' people with her this coming week. To be honest, while I would never impersonate a service dog intentionally or lie about it, I'm not too worried if they decide the harness makes her look like one and give her a wide berth. I'm possibly just a little fed up and jaded though and sick of having them constantly reinforcing that she needs to act like a lunatic to get some space, you know? Mostly the last one. The rest is just being tired of stupid people.


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