# Herding - Instinct Test



## Co-Jack (Sep 5, 2015)

Just for funsies, I'm taking Co-Jack a few hours north (should be fun, 3 hours of cattle dog yipping in a closed car, lol) of us this weekend. I haven't seen any threads within the past year about herding... I called and double checked cattle dogs are welcome, as they tend to nip and sometimes do kooky things, like running across the backs of the sheep (I sort of get it, why go the long way when you can simply cut across an area?!).

Has anyone else done these types of activities with their pooch? This will be my first EVER time to a "dog sport" event, much less participating in it. Not sure what to expect, lol.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Not a herding dog owner, but there have been a couple herding threads lately in the general and maybe training forums that you can look at. I think the instinct test is pretty basic. Good luck!


----------



## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Instinct testing will involve an explanation by the instructor who is doing the test. That instructors job is to protect the sheep. The dog normally goes in on leash to see if there is interest. The dog is suppose to push the sheep toward the shepherd and keep them grouped together by the shepherd. The dog is not allowed to bite or take hold of the sheep. The shepherd carries a paddle to push the dog out if necessary to protect the sheep. If the dog gets too rough with the sheep the shepherd will throw the paddle at the dog. The instructor should give you a report as to your ddog's herding style. It is important that your dog have a good recall. Good luck and have fun. It is interesting to watch herding breeds work at the job they are breed for. When Savannah didi her test the instructor told me that at first she was in play mode, tail up playing chase, as working mode kicked in she carried her tail lower like a rudder. It was fun to watch her work! One more thing when you are in the pen with the sheep be aware of where they are (sheep) as they will run you down if excited.


----------



## Bentwings (Mar 30, 2015)

Herding
I'm currently into herding with my Aussie/ACD mix. She is a very high drive dog and a real handfull. I'm just learning the herding process so I can't offer much beyond what has been presented and what I have observed. Here is a bit of what to expect.

The herding instinct is either there or it is not. You can't really teach it. However you can direct it and control it. Your evaluator will talk to you about what your dog has. I've seen the ever popular Border Collie ignor sheep like plague and " a something" dog work like a pro so again it's there or it is not.

More than likely the trainer will take your dog into the ring with 4-5 sheep while you watch. The trainer will have a small plastic rake or paddle to keep the dog off the sheep. Some dogs, ACD and Aussies use nips and bites to move stock. The trainers don't like their sheep to get unnecessary bites hence the rake. The dogs will learn when this is appropriate later on. They just can't barge in and decimate the herd. During the evaluation the trainer will direct the dog and see what it's natural instincts are. One thing I learned early is that dogs are left or right oriented. IE left or right handed. Part of training will be to balance this.

Assuming the evaluation is ok, you will need to learn how to go into and out of the pen gates. The dog must sit, Stand or down before you open the gate. Then you "invite" the dog in. What ever command you want. The dog must come in and remain at your side until you close the gate Ultimately off lead and no collars. It's not as easy as it sounds. We have spent a whole training session just going in and out of the gate.

Don't be surprised if your dog is only worked for five minutes. The trainer is looking for a natural correct move. As with other training it is good to stop on a correct exercise rather than a mistake. Many sessions will only last fifteen minutes. Some times you will get multiple sessions sometimes not. 

The dog needs to be in good condition as he will be doing lots of high speed running and quick reverses. The sheep can be pretty big, 250-300 pounds and they can jump! I got hit by a big one and it was like being hit by a big fast linebacker in football. At 73 believe me I felt that one.

Most likely you will get an evaluation and if successful you will start with just basics and not chasing sheep all over. You may got several lessons with no contact with stock so you can teach your dog commands needed. You need good basic obedience commands before you get very far.

We have had to relearn a bunch of obedience especially with big distraction.....sheep and other dogs working sheep.

Good luck!


----------



## Co-Jack (Sep 5, 2015)

It seems things went well, the trainer is also an AHBA judge. She said we "have definite prospects." I was just so pleased to see him having a good time, I didn't think to clarify what she meant by that. She said he was thoughtful and deliberate in his interaction with the sheep, and he was very interested in the sheep as well. He kept his tail up high, twirling the very tip around, that's his "happy happy joy joy" tail. The trainer worked with him a second time, similar body language, only barked once second try. When the judge brought him back out a second time, she said he is "quite nice to work stock with." Many of the other half ACD people were asking me if he had seen sheep before, I kept telling them he's a rescue, so I really doubted it. They said he did better than their dogs who have been working at this for months. Of course I'm proud of him, and I enjoy seeing the under dog get the upper paw, lol.

There is another herding judge and trainer nearby, just to satisfy my curiosity, I think I'm going to ask for a second opinion to be sure of what I'm doing.


----------



## Bentwings (Mar 30, 2015)

I forgot needed equipment....tall rubber boots. When it gets wet you will be ankle deep in sheep......so will your dog so prepare for a bath. Haha.

A few weeks ago after we had serious rain a lady brought her rough collie out. This dog was freshly groomed, not a hair out of place, perfect tan, perfect white nice long coat. Oh, what a mess! He was covered with brownish gray muck, it looked like he rolled in sheep......and was he happy....nice big collie smile.

I should talk....one of the big sheep body blocked me flat into the muck and my dog did roll in it. Fortunately my dog loves water so we stopped on the way home at a near by lake for a bath. My shoes still have a "distinctive oder " even after multiple washes.


----------



## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Recently went to observe a herding trial. Here's my thread about it. http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/404690-herding-clinic.html My puppy is still too young, but it's definitely something I want to do!


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Yep I do herding trials with my Aussies! Sheep, Ducks and Cattle; Farm trials and Arena trials, but only ASCA at the moment.


----------



## Bentwings (Mar 30, 2015)

We have continued even with the wet cold and some snowy weather. We were in the pen with 5 sheep, the goal was to not bark and stay calmly by my side....heel position and get as close to the sheep as possible. We got to about 5 feet after starting across the pen from the sheep. Samantha worked very hard to control herself, occasionally whining but No barking.

We did this twice plus entering and leaving the pen correctly. The trainer stopped us there and input Sam in her crate for a while. Then I got her out again just to watch the other dogs. It was good to stop here on a good note.

This herding training has carried over to manners at our appartment complex. There about 75 rude dogs to deal with and Sam is now pretty good with just ignoring them and watching me. Opening a door and meeting is still a problem but our training to wait at doors is working well.

I've had to stop for Dec and most of Jan due to travel and work but we'll pick up after that.

It will give us time to work on recall, stand, recall with stand and we just started hand direction control.


----------



## Bentwings (Mar 30, 2015)

Keechak, where are you training? I'm in St.Paul


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Bentwings said:


> Keechak, where are you training? I'm in St.Paul


 I train primarily at Diamond Aire Farm near Red Wing MN. They do take new handlers and allow you to pay per session.


----------



## Bentwings (Mar 30, 2015)

Thanks, I'll give a call and possibly go there, it's an easy drive from my place. 

I'm actually happy training where I do. I found early in Schutzhund training that saying at only one field was a real disadvantage when it came to events or trials. I use to train at 6-8 different fields/clubs. We never failed a trial, maybe not scored at potential but at least passed. We even scored a couple high in trial. I saw many home field only very good dogs fail when not at home.


----------



## ELRod (Jan 12, 2016)

Good luck, its best to start them as puppies. Hopefully he's not to high strung you don't want him chasing the dam's. I operate a cattle ranch in NE Texas with a few Dogo Argentino's. There's definitely a process to training up a good cow dog. If they aren't your cows then that won't be their dog and they will charge him and get crazy and that's not good for the cows. Introductions are everything and it has to be the herd manager doing the intro.


----------



## Bentwings (Mar 30, 2015)

I wish I could have had this Aussie as a pup, as it is she was 2 years old when I got her and she had no training at all. It's been a real learning experience dealing with reactivity after she was bitten three times right after I got her. Interestingly since we started herding the reactivity problem has diminished. She gets along fine with the herding dogs often sharing the cool off pool and water buckets. I was really skeptical that this would happen but since she can gather and occasionally Perdue errant sheep she has calmed down a lot. She has become easier to train and guide. 

I don't think we will get to do cattle as I simply don't know enough about them and with due respect to the owners I don't want to cause problems. I think Samantha could work cattle but it will take someone that knows cattle and how to deal with a high strung Aussie.


----------

