# Sparatic and Severe Aggression in 7 wk old Siberian Husky puppy



## Dielawn (Apr 3, 2010)

My puppy is 7 weeks old and sparatically goes into a fit of rage where he'll attack, bite, maul anything in front of him....then it just goes away and he's normal again.



At first I thought it was rabies, lol



Now I think it was because he was attacked by him Mom (at the breeder) twice when he was around 4 weeks old. His jaw was broken, his eye is messed up, was bleeding from the head, and his ear will forever point forward, I guess it was torn as well. I'm thinking it's how he deals with pain.



But I just read something about rage syndrome? I know it's mostly in spaniels but they said it can be in other breeds? what are they? do I just need to call Cesar?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

No you do not need to call Cesar.
First you need to have the puppy assessed. This is, if it is not just "puppy crazies", most likely a behaviour with a physical or genetic cause.
You need to have a neurological exam at your vet, and maybe a specialist assess the pup. It's possible that the attack by the mother dog has done some cerebral damage and that he is having seizure like attacks. Or yes, it could be pain related. Either way this is not a behaviour fixit.
Rage syndrome is often a form of epilepsy and yes it can occur in other breeds.

And you may want to think about returning the puppy to the breeder. Why did the breeder sell you a dog with injuries? It's only been three weeks so the pup cannot be fully healed.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Or, there could have been something "off" or wrong with the pup that lead to the mother's attack.

Get the puppy seen by a behaviorist and a vet.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> At first I thought it was rabies, lol


You wouldn't normally expect to see a lol at the end of that sentence.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Without seeing the behavior it's impossible to do more than guess. Sometimes wild puppy play looks like aggression, and it can be disconcerting if you've never seen it before. If it is actual rage in a 7 week old puppy, it could be the result of brain damage suffered in the attacks. Run--don't walk--to a veterinarian who understands canine behavior. I'd spend the dough and take him to a veterinary college and have his brain pan MRI'd. If that's the diagnosis, a pup of mine wouldn't make it to 8 weeks. YMMV.

ETA:


trainingjunkie said:


> Or, there could have been something "off" or wrong with the pup that lead to the mother's attack.


That's a very good point.


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## Dielawn (Apr 3, 2010)

I kinda got him second-hand. Someone got him from the breeder (for free I'm guessing). She had an assload of animals and didn't have time for him.

I'll see about a behaviorist though.

He was on Pain Medicine thought, he never attacked when he was on it. How long can a puppy stay on pain medicine. Will they become dependant?

Edit: And by the way, the attacks....on a scale of 1 to 10 would be a 9 on a scale of agression. I've seen him bite at the air.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> Edit: And by the way, the attacks....on a scale of 1 to 10 would be a 9 on a scale of agression.


That's a difficult thing to access unless you've seen a 'ten.'


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## Dielawn (Apr 3, 2010)

Well he'll attack you no matter what and if you try to avoid him or run he will chase you. He bit the hell out of my foot and drew blood.

Monday I'll see what the vet wants to do.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

In my opinion, without seeing this first hand, it's pretty irresposible for anyone to say anything other than get this pup to a vet and a behaviorist. It's always possible that you are misreading play behavior. As far as the pain meds question, ask your vet. You need to see him anyway.

I wish you the very best and hope that you find some way to help this puppy have a rich and safe life.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

trainingjunkie said:


> In my opinion, without seeing this first hand, it's pretty irresposible for anyone to say anything other than get this pup to a vet and a behaviorist. * It's always possible that you are misreading play behavior.* As far as the pain meds question, ask your vet. You need to see him anyway.
> 
> I wish you the very best and hope that you find some way to help this puppy have a rich and safe life.


Very possible. But a 7 week old puppy who was attacked badly by his own mother at 4 weeks of age who bites, draws blood, and randomly attacks the air IMO screams neurological damage (especially since the attack from his mother was at his head, and damaged his eye/ear, etc). I would run like hell to a vet college and get my checkbook ready. As far as a behaviorist goes, I would get my video camera ready, as well.


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## ankalei01 (Apr 4, 2010)

I am his girlfriend... he did not mention everything. We took Kahnrad ( our puppy ) in as a rescue. We did not buy him from the breeder. The lady didn't want to deal with him so we took him in hoping we could help him. We took him to the vet the next day to get dewormed and shots. He still had an infection so they delayed shots and gave him anti-biotics and pain killers. He was doing great until the very last day of medicine and he started to growl. We didn't think much of it until he started going after my children. We tried petting him to calm him and it seemed to make it worst. We took him to the pet hospital that night and they said it was pain related and gave him more pain killers. However, he is getting worst. He know does it when he is alone in the basement ( vet said to isolate him to give him rest). When he does it it seems like he can't control it, after about a couple of minutes of his lashing out he kinda stumbles around and then he is fine. Ten minutes later he's back at it. We have taken him to the vet twice in 5 days. So you cant say were are neglecting him. We are only asking for help and advice. He has an appointment again on monday.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

We can only guess. I'd be very concerned--not about a 7 week old puppy, but about how he will be when he gets older. If I had to toss a guess out across the internets, I'd hazard that it's some kind of seizure or otherwise neurologically based. Pain might very well be a factor, but I doubt that's the end of it. 

I'd prepare for the end of this puppy, though I'd be thrilled if it turns out I'm wrong. TIFWIW.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Marsh Muppet said:


> We can only guess. I'd be very concerned--not about a 7 week old puppy, but about how he will be when he gets older. If I had to toss a guess out across the internets, I'd hazard that it's some kind of seizure or otherwise neurologically based. Pain might very well be a factor, but I doubt that's the end of it.
> 
> I'd prepare for the end of this puppy, though I'd be thrilled if it turns out I'm wrong. TIFWIW.


Unfortunately, I second this. With the stumbling around after the episodes, it might be some form of "rage" syndrome like the OP read about in spaniels (which is actually a neurological thing, too). The vet might want to try seizure medication (phenobarbital or potassium bromide?) Unfortunately, if it is related to his past injuries he sustained as such a youngster, there's no telling if the medication will help or not. Such a sad situation


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## ankalei01 (Apr 4, 2010)

Thank You for the comments. I have had dogs all my life and never put one down. Never even thought of it, until now. It hurts to even think about it, but at the same time, he will be a pretty big dog and I don't want children or anyone else getting hurt. Secondly, he has no life and I hate to think he will have to suffer this forever. He has an appointment today, so we will see.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Good luck at the appointment. I hope it goes well. If it doesn't, I hope that you can find peace with your decisions. 

You took on a hard, hard case. You probably have tried more than most would have. You gave him his very best shot. Sometimes, that's all we can do. The rest is out of our hands.

Hang in there. Best wishes.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Very interesting. Please let us know what the vet says. Please bring up some of the neurological comments here to your vet. The stumbling around (like a drunk?) after an episode is very concerning. 

Of course, some puppies get the puppy sillies and move so quick tht they will stumble around. He is, after all, only 7 weeks old. It is also surprising and somewhat disturbing to hear of this level of play crazies (like biting the air) in a 7 week old puppy in a new environment. 

You are correct in that this will be a very large dogs someday and if he has neurological issues making him dangerous (and which he cannot control) it would be like owning a ticking bomb.. never know when it goes off.

Please let us know what you find out. If it ends with the pupy needing to be PTS, I offer my sympathy.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> The vet might want to try seizure medication (phenobarbital or potassium bromide?) Unfortunately, if it is related to his past injuries he sustained as such a youngster, there's no telling if the medication will help or not.


Depending on the extent of the brain injury or defect, medication may not completely control seizures. I had a Rott bitch who began being afflicted with grand mal seizures at about 1.5 years of age. We took her up to Cornell U vet hospital, even though we could ill afford it. She really was a wonderful dog, so doing everything possible for her was the only option. Phenobarb worked well until she developed a tolerance for it. I think we tried Darvon next, and that went about the same way. I forget what the vet put her on next but it seemed to be doing the job, but she still had the occasional seizure.

One night we were all sitting around the living room, when she began snarling and snapping at a blank wall. When she came out of it, I crated her and called in sick for work the next day. First thing next morning, I took her in to have her put down. That was a sad day, but her "baby" brother (120 lb. male Rott) was going to take matters unto himself and end her, right then and there. I literally intercepted him while he was in mid air, going for the kill. Those two were as thick as thieves, so there was no glossing over what had happened.


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

Gee that's scary! My vet was telling me about rage syndrome in some breeds (if this is what it is) Idiopathic aggression I think it's called. I have a Bernese and this is why he told me about it. He's from Europe and took his schooling there in the 70's and was telling me that they had to put alot of BMD downs due to turning on their owners. Alot of inbreeding is partly the cause and is inherited through genetics. Sounds like your pup may have suffered some brain damage from it's mother, and from the other posts I wonder too why the mother would attack this one pup? sensing something is not right


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

dakotajo said:


> Gee that's scary! My vet was telling me about rage syndrome in some breeds (if this is what it is) Idiopathic aggression I think it's called.


IDK if the cause is understood to a certainty, but one researcher believes "spaniel rage" is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain of afflicted dogs. Serotonin, I believe. Anyway, according to her, the dogs are reacting to normal stimuli, but there are no intervening steps between stimulus and full out attack. No growls, no calming signals, no avoidance, just total "rage".

I'm not well informed enough to critique her theory.


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## Dielawn (Apr 3, 2010)

Well we took him to our regular vet today, and started explaining our case...show him video of him lashing out in the car on the way there, he was pretty quiet and listening to us until we mention that we had kids (two and four) and he stopped us right there. He said that changed the whole ballgame.

He didn't act like there was a magical "cure" or "solution" to his behavior, seeing how extreme it really was. He said playing around with different medications wouldn't be prudent either because of the kids around. He said we couldn't give him away because it'd be like giving away a loaded gun with a trigger problem.

He basically gave us two options.

Quarantine him for 10 days then put him to sleep (because I've been bitten and blood has been drawn) or put him to sleep and then submit brain sample for testing.

I'm personally tired of watching him suffer and would not stand to have him alone and suffering for ten straight days. We had to do it and it was for the best.

The Vet said that he could barely see because he kept trying to walk off of the table (I thought it was just because he was young).

I've also noticed because his jaw has been broken he had a SEVERE overbite. So severe that his bottom teeth had made red painful holes in his palette. 

He was suffering so we did the best thing for him. We tried.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Thank you for doing the right thing. I feel very sad for you. You did the right thing.

Thank you for trying and thank you for being responsible, even though it was hard.

My condolences.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

So sorry that you had to make that decision. Thank you for giving him your best!


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Dielawn, 
I am so sorry that this had to come to this, but please feel secure in your decision. You did your best and he simply wasn't meant to be here with you for long. You gave him love and care and that is all that mattered. He will forever be a healthy happy pup across the bridge. You made the right decision, for the greater good. 

My thoughts are with you and your family right now. It's never easy, even when it is "right".


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## kwippy (Apr 5, 2010)

I'm so sad to hear that! I've been following this post since yesterday and wanted to give my condolences. That pup was lucky to have such kind and sensible humans looking after him. Sorry for you loss.


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## Dielawn (Apr 3, 2010)

Thanks for the support, I teared up a little bit.


We're looking at a Border Collie Mix at the Animal Shelter right now...I'd kinda like to get a purebred the a mixbreed is much cheaper. Thanks again for all the help and support.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I am sorry this was the necessary decision. I do not have kids but I would have done likewise. 

We cannot save them all. I am glad you had him and did the responsible thing.. not just put him out on a chain somewhere and feed him 1X a day. 

You did the right thing even tho it felt lousy.


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