# boerboel help!!!



## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

Hey everybody!! This is my first post on this site but I've been checking it out for months. Anyways I need some serious help! I have a Boerboel puppy thats 4 months old. I bought it because its supposed to be a great family dog and a protection dog!! I have a 2 year old girl and a 4 year old boy. The dog is great for a family dog. However it sucks as for a guard dog. Its scared of everything. I have put it through puppy school and every dog in there picks on mine. My dog weighs 65 pounds and comes out with cuts on him everytime because 9 other dogs gang up on him. I've had many other dogs in the past and I've never seen one that was so unsure of himself. He's a joke that cost me 2000. I need some serious help on how to build this dog's confidence. I can't take him pissing everytime he sees a new person or a new dog. I know about positive/negitive reenforcement and I'm not doing anything I shouldn't be doing. I'm thinking about puting him into a guard dog school? I live in owensboro KY and I don't even know if they have anything like that around here but I have to try to fix this dog somehow. Everytime I take him around the block for a walk all the other dogs run up to him and he pisses everywhere!!! He does on everybody!!! My friends quit coming over, I have to tell others not to approach the dog, I can't take him to the pet store. I don't want an alpha male but I would like a dog that is assertive. Please help give advice on how to build confidence and quit submissive urination!!! I can't handle this anymore. By the way this is the smartest dog I've ever seen for his age. I taught him all kinds of tricks (I thought I'd leave on a good note).

Please help!!!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

need more info before i can help

what happens before he sub urinates? What kinds of SPECIFIC _situations_ trigger it.

like is it when he sees a stimulus or when he interacts with the stimulus? Does he do it when there are loud noises? 

like can you give as many details as possible? heavy emphasis on *details*. his body language, your body language...everything.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

I am not a trainer and I am sure someone will post with some great advice, but I do have 2 submissive pee'ers. My Bella is 5-6 months old and Maggie is 1.5 years. Maggie was the worst but we just ignored her and asked other to ignor her and it got better...she eventually stopped. But then we moved and didnt have alot of company over and it started again  so we were back to square one with her...but she is alot better now...I also give my dogs a bully stick or dental bone when people come over to distract them from the whole scary/excited thing they do. Bella is also getting better, but I took her out with me to pick my daughter up from the mall one day and we gave her friend a ride home...my daughter was standing outside the van holding Bella and as soon as the friend spoke to her she peed all over my daughter .

I would think taking your dog to the petstore would be good, I am sure lots of dogs pee there...but if you stop doing all these things then the dog wont get used to them and build up its confidence.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

A good way to build his confidence is to make sure he stays out from under piles of dogs. It's not reasonable to expect a young pup to stand up for himself when swarmed like that, and the day he does, you may have a helluva time getting him to stop. A dog-aggressive guard dog is a pretty useless thing.

If a dog does not have the appropriate temperament to be a guard dog, guard dog training won't fix it. It can make him a severe liability, though,


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

Alright here's a typical scenario of what the dog does when meeting guest, animals, strangers, lawn mowers (not running), 4 wheelers (not running), my motor cycle (not running) or when my girl friend or I get home. I work and she doesn't. She's a stay at home mom. The dog is used to loud noises because we have a 2 and 4 year old and if anybody else has kids you know they're not so quite at times. Anyways here's what always happens, everytime the dog is approached by any of the things I've listed above he turns over and pees. If I work a 10 hour shift i'll call my girlfriend and tell her I'm comming home so she can stick the dog out. I do this becaus I love my dog and I want to pet it when I get home but if it's inside it'll pee everywhere when I get home (the dog is potty trained by the way). I have a cage that I've crate trained him in and that's also where he sleeps at night because he's a huge lap dog and wants to sleep in the bed with us. Anyways back to the info about the submissive urnation. I always know when he's going to do it. He'll walk up with his head down, ears down, and I can sense his fear but I never act on it. Then he'll roll over and pees everywhere. I've tried keeping him in his cage when guest come over but if he sees them he'll pee in his cage. Now that it's warm we keep him out back the majority of the time. He's peed on may of ppl's feet. If the mail man walks up to the door and the dog see him then he pees everywhere. I've tried to take him into the pet store many times but I'm getting tired of cleaning up pee. I love the dogs temperment but I would have bought a lab and saved 1700 dollars if that's what I was going for. I just need some help on how to cure this dog. I've had labs, a Newfoundland, a pit bull, an American bull dog, and 3 Maltese. This dog is by far the most fearful dog I've ever seen!!! I've read that if you lay on the ground then he'll feel safe and that helps build confidence. I've been doing that for weeks and there hasn't been results. I've heard if you let him win at tug a war that helps and it hasn't. I'm at a lost!!! I thank everybody for the replies!!! I forgot to mention that I've tried to give him bully sticks to keep him occupied and he'll just bring it to whatever scares him and give it up. Then the urnation begins!!!


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

> My dog weighs 65 pounds and comes out with cuts on him everytime because 9 other dogs gang up on him.


How can your poor puppy trust you when you let this happen to him?

IF you can actually keep him safe, I've heard that learning agility can be great for a dogs confidence.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

i think what you need to do is take it down a notch with this dog.

first thing you might want to get him checked out for a UTI or any other thing that might be causing excessive urination. you need to rule out physical causes for an undesirable behavior before you start looking at training it out. if there is a chance that he can't help it, there is no way he can learn not to. the best person to talk to about that is your vet. its worth checking out.

second. once you rule that out. take a bit to observe him and note any situations where he displays calm behavior and doesnt urinate. that's where you want to start. you want to train in those times and places where he is chill...then what you want to do is work on building his confidence by setting him up to succeed. Reward any and all calm behavior. do some easy trick training to help flex his mental muscles and build confidence. 

basically breathe...i know the pee is annoying but if you let it get to you, he will pick up on it. calm it down. lots of food treats would help. ease him into situations that will stimulate his curiousity about his environment and the people and dogs in it.

a note on dogs.

start being picky about dogs he interacts with for a while. choose real solid stable and well behaved polite dogs. you know, real friendly but not pushy or bullying. stoic is a good word for it. 

and people. get a jar or two of good doggie treats and put them in easy access in your home. when people come over, have them ignore him and pick up a few treats. tell them to wait until he comes to them and toss him a treat without looking at him. 

dont freak about the pee. wash him down after he pees(subtle consequence for his actions) and then clean the stain with either vinigar and water or an enzymatic cleaner and dont acknowledge it beyond that.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Three things to start off with:

He's four months old so body control under stress is difficult and he could be going through a fear stage (this happens several times in the first year of development).

Get him out of that puppy class! What sort of trainer ALLOWS a fearful dog to be ganged up on...that is HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE and is very likely to turn your soft dog into a fearful DOG AGGRESSIVE dog. The whole point of puppy classes is to have safe and positive socialization with other puppies..this is clearly not what is happening.

Do NOT send your dog to guard dog training! He is too soft to do it and that is not going to help him build confidence and he is still a very young puppy. 

Okay..that's done. 

Yes, playing tug is a great game to build confidence..but remember that he is also a fearful dog and it takes time and repetition and LOTS of training and play to develop confidence. It's not an overnight thing by any means. Have you spoken to your breeder at all about his fearfulness? Have you thought about getting a different pup? (Not that I am recommending this at all, I'm just curious).

You say you want him to be a guard dog. Really, honestly, this is not always necessary...the sheer size of the dog can be a deterrent and he will not be lacking in that area for sure. 

Lastly, 
go to www.fearfuldogs.com this website is VERY informative and helpful on the ways to desensitize dogs to things they are fearful of and will help you positively work with your dog to build his confidence. 

Good luck.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

There is a huge difference between protection/attack dogs and family watchdogs.
Protection dogs demand professional training otherwise you've in for real trouble trying to do this on your own. I strongly urge you to rethink this.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

He's only 4 months old, give him some time. Many guardian breeds don't start to show their guardian tendencies untill they hit social maturity around a year and a half old.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Matt_lowry said:


> Anyways I need some serious help! I have a Boerboel puppy thats 4 months old. I bought it because its supposed to be a great family dog and a protection dog!! However it sucks as for a guard dog. Its scared of everything. I have put it through puppy school and every dog in there picks on mine. My dog weighs 65 pounds and comes out with cuts on him everytime because 9 other dogs gang up on him.


 As you've already received some good advice, 
I'll keep this brief and "protection dog" specific":

- He may be 65 pounds but, at 4 months old, 
your dog is still a baby! 
Keep socializing the heck out of him,
keep his experiences positive, 
and make sure his confidence is bolstered. 
A unstable or timid "protection" dog is a tragedy waiting to happen. 

- The protective nature of the Boerboel is often overstated. 
It's possible that, even doing everything right, 
he may _never_ end up to be that fearless guardian you had expected. 

- If 9 other dogs gang up on your dog in puppy school, 
you're in the wrong school! 

- At $2K, do you not have a breeder with whom you can speak??? 
He/she will be most knowledgeable about the line from which your dog comes, 
and will let you know what you can expect from your boy, and when.


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the replys everybody!!! I'm going to quit taking the dog to dog school from here on out. I called the breeder and he told me that when the pup was born he didn't let it play with the rest of the dogs. Maybe that's why it's so fearful of everything!!! I never thought about carrying treats and letting guest feed the dog. That sounds like it might work. The reason I was thinking about taking the dog to a guard dog program was to build it's confidence. I wasn't trying to have a huge mean dog that would or could go loco. I just thought maybe they could give me some tips or one on one training with the dog to build confidence. I'm going to rule it out thought from the responces I've recieved. I appreciate all the info everybody has provided!!!


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Did the breeder give any explanation as to why they didn't let the puppy play with other dogs?


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Did the breeder say why he removed your puppy from playing with the other pups? I assume you mean his littermates? Pups learn important early socialization from their littermates and this is a crucial development stage that is very likely contributing to his poor socialization and lack of confidence now.


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

He said because I have two young kids. I don't know anything about breeding dogs but would this be a valid reason?


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Matt_lowry said:


> He said because I have two young kids. I don't know anything about breeding dogs but would this be a valid reason?


Absolutely the opposite! I am not sure your breeder knows too much about breeding dogs either!


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

THat really stinks!!! I hope with the info everybody has provided and the info I can gain off of this site I can over come my dogs fear of everything!!!

Thanks all for your help!!


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Your pup is a BABY still!...It is YOUR job to make sure that he is safe so he can gain confidence!
Mess this up now & you might find you've bit off more than you can chew!...A fear aggressive guardian breed is no walk in the park!!!!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

DO nOT give up on a Puppy K, just find one where rthe trainer isn't going to allow your dog to be ganged up on. Your pup need to be able to interact with other pups, perhaps only one or two at a time and in very controlled situations right now. 

It's also very possible that your pup is going through a fear period, this is a crucial time for training, so I'm going to give you some good excercises you can do at home (and once they're learned have the kids work under you supervision). 

To teach 'Leave it' Doggy Zen 

To teach him to calm down on command (very important with young children in the house) Rev Up/Cool Down 

Desesitizing to objects/people/noises Desensitizing A Dog To Inanimate Objects Or Noises 

Controlled introductions to other dogs Meet Me in the Middle – The Best Way To Introduce Dogs 

Manners at home and in public
Greeting Politely at the door 

Training Dog to Greet Politely 

Train one thing each session, several time a day for around 5-10 minutes.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Matt, you've gotten some good advice so far. Getting him out of that horrible puppy class with the inept trainer is the first step. Possibly trying to find a well-behaved, polite puppy for a few play dates for him to learn healthy puppy interaction (since he was never afforded that!) is in order. Do away with the idea of guard dog training (allow his natural guarding instincts to develop in due course, with his confidence levels), work on repetitive play with him along with your family and friends (if they're willing) outside at first so as to minimize messes to help build trust and confidence.

As I said, this pup missed out on a vital developmental stage in his life - early socialization. So, difficult as it is, it's now up to you to try to catch him up and socialize him to other puppies, people, the world, and show him that life is a fun, friendly, exciting place to be and not a scary place to freak out about all the time.

Your breeder really did you a disservice, and I have to ask ... was this a "reputable" breeder (I kind of know the answer to this) or some dude selling puppies out of his garage or backyard? Because it really sounds like some doofus who doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground (pardon my bluntness).


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Matt_lowry said:


> Hey everybody!! This is my first post on this site but I've been checking it out for months. Anyways I need some serious help! I have a Boerboel puppy thats 4 months old. I bought it because its supposed to be a great family dog and a protection dog!! I have a 2 year old girl and a 4 year old boy. The dog is great for a family dog. However it sucks as for a guard dog. Its scared of everything. I have put it through puppy school and every dog in there picks on mine. My dog weighs 65 pounds and comes out with cuts on him everytime because 9 other dogs gang up on him. I've had many other dogs in the past and I've never seen one that was so unsure of himself. He's a joke that cost me 2000. I need some serious help on how to build this dog's confidence. I can't take him pissing everytime he sees a new person or a new dog. I know about positive/negitive reenforcement and I'm not doing anything I shouldn't be doing. I'm thinking about puting him into a guard dog school? I live in owensboro KY and I don't even know if they have anything like that around here but I have to try to fix this dog somehow. Everytime I take him around the block for a walk all the other dogs run up to him and he pisses everywhere!!! He does on everybody!!! My friends quit coming over, I have to tell others not to approach the dog, I can't take him to the pet store. I don't want an alpha male but I would like a dog that is assertive. Please help give advice on how to build confidence and quit submissive urination!!! I can't handle this anymore. By the way this is the smartest dog I've ever seen for his age. I taught him all kinds of tricks (I thought I'd leave on a good note).
> 
> Please help!!!


This is not meant to be harsh or an attack on you. 

Your dog is a BABY..... He may become a brave protector in time. But thinking a four month old pup should be bold and showing protective instinct is just asking too much. 

I sense your frustration and possible anger in your post. This is not going to help. 
Puppies go through fear periods. Opinions differ on how many. Some folks say two. Some say one, I say it varies from puppy to puppy. 

What you need to be doing now is keeping EVERYTHING positive. Don't baby him, encourage him.
IF you take the mindset on creating a bold guardian with the behaviors he is currently displaying, you are going to create an unstable nerve bag. 

Relax, socialize him, reward the positive, ignore the submissive stuff, don't feed it with positive or negative attention, take baby steps, find his thresholds and slowly build on them. And LET HIM BE A PUPPY.


He may never be a fire eater but then again he may just be in a fear period. But if you stress and try to fix it now you can mess him up. 

BTW when you discussed a puppy with the breeder did you share that you wanted a guardian with them? If so did they help you chose a bold puppy?


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

BTW this puppy class with the other dogs ganging up is crap. You need to get him out of there. Don't take him back there.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Puppies go through fear periods. Opinions differ on how many. Some folks say two. Some say one,* I say it varies from puppy to puppy. *


 
Absolutely right, and some pups are just shy, anxious and fearful, those are the one you have to watch and really work with as they can become FEAR BITERS and that's dangerous to everyone. 

MAtt. where are you? Perhaps I can help you find a better trainer and Puppy K.


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

I live in Owensboro KY. I don't want to give up the guys name that I bought the dog from because I don't want to give him a bad name. I'll PM whoever ask but I don't want to say anything too bad about the guy. I feel like its my fault anyways!!! I guess I should have done more research on him before investing into his business. I bought this dog because I wanted it to be a home protector for my family and I. I also heard that they're great with kids (which this part holds true). I've taking the dog to two different vets to get him looked at and they said that whoever raised the dog probably kept it in a kennel because of hair loss on its elbows and other places. They're gone now but it looked like huge callouses. The vet also said that whoever docked the tail and removed the dew claws did a terrible job. he has huge scares on his feet where the dew claws were removed and about the last inch of his tail doesn't have/grow hair on it. If this dog did become angry out of fear would there be signs or him getting ready to go loco? That news kind of has me worried!!! I can't take any chances with a 2 and 4 year old in the house. The breeder asked if I've never hit my dog. I told him I've never hit him or punished the dog. I treat the dog like he's my child. I redirect the dogs attention if he's doing something wrong. I do the same with my kids.

I knew I should have went with my gut and bought a cane corso!!!!


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Matt ... don't panic, and don't start blaming the breed, which is basically what you are doing by saying you should have gotten a corso. Besides, you could have had the same issues with a Corso had you gotten yet another moronic breeder!

The dog wasn't treated properly by the breeder. However, the dog is still a baby, and YOU have a great opportunity to properly socialize the dog and create a loving, trusting family pet out of him. Don't jump the gun here and start second guessing yourself. I tend to think you have gotten attached to the pup, right? If so, just follow the guidance you are being given here and give faith, love, hope a chance. You are already doing the right things with not hitting, redirecting, positive reinforcement. There's no reason for the dog to become fear aggressive as long as you remain consistent in your training efforts and he learns to trust you. Again, he's still young.

The dog is not going to just "turn" on your kids. Just properly socialize him with them. He can be the best friend and best defender they've ever known.

I will suggest to you that you neither use, nor recommend to anyone else, this particular breeder ever again. When I say the breeder did you a disservice, I basically meant that he created a great deal of work for you that was really unnecessary and charged you a ridiculous amount of money for it! Also, he did a grave injustice to that dear puppy as well. No pup should be forced to leave his dam and littermates too early. Sorry Matt, the breeder is a complete moron. I'm sure he's leaving his own "bad name" all over the place where he is selling puppies.

I had actually never heard of a Boerboel, so I looked them up. That is going to be one great looking and formidable looking dog when he grows up, and I am sure he is a great looking pup now!

Hang tough, Matt!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Matt_lowry said:


> I knew I should have went with my gut and bought a cane corso!!!!


The thing is, there are no guarantees how a puppy will turn out. A reputable breeder will give health guarantees (replace the pup if congenital defects develop), but they have no control over the pup's environment so they can't reasonably be expected to make good on a timid "guard dog". Perhaps if the breeder has a longstanding relationship with a trusted pro trainer, but otherwise not.

Plus, some dogs don't come into their own until the onset of puberty. So don't write him off just yet. Keep him out of situations that are likely to shake his confidence, and you may see a different dog in 7-9 months. Especially keep him from being pinned by other dogs. When the hormone storm makes landfall, he may just decide that other dogs need preemptive killing.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

No you shouldve done your research better. Both about breeders and about protection dogs. I didnt want to say anything about some of the underlying issues in order to redirect the op more towards the direction they should go...generally its better to go pretty easy on fearful dogs as well as puppies...a fearful pup even more so. Ease up on him. Stop having such specific expectations of this pup and just work on getting him confident and easygoing...then worry about anything else you wantj


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> No you shouldve done your research better. Both about breeders and about protection dogs. Ease up on him. Stop having such specific expectations of this pup and just work on getting him confident and easygoing...then worry about anything else you wantj


It's very ture that I should have done my research better. I was ignorant for buying this dog. I should have know better because the guy told me to feed eukanuba and I didn't get any papers with the dog. I singed a 10 page contract so I thought that the guy knew what he was talking about. I might have a bull mastiff for all I know. My only expectations are for him to stop pissin all over my house when people come over including myself. I don't want a dog to go out and kill stuff but I did buy him for protection. 

This is what eveybody tells me about this dog, they say man he's really passive thats just what you want. He'll be great.

now let put that into a different perspective: I drive a 2008 corvette and I would be pissed if it only had 200HP. Then I would drive one of my friends around and they say man it sure does ride good. Yeah every car rides good I could have save a ton of money on a taraus.

Thats how I feel about this dog. I didn't get what I paid for. I know the dog is still a baby and I know that I can fix the dog but I'm not going to stick in and do this for a year or two if thats what its going to take. I've never seen a dog so scared!!!! For 20 years I've had maltese and they have more courage then this dog. Its funny because my grandma just bought an 14 week old jack russel and she brought it over and it made my dog pee and run for the hills. The guy had it for three months before he sold it to me so I'm going to blame 90% on him and 10% on me. My ten is from lack of research. I'm going to re-read the contract. To see if I can trade it back or get some of my money back. This dog is an embarrasment to boerboels everywhere!!!!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

its really not an embarrassment for Boerboels everywhere. what a terrible thing to say about a baby. *this dog is still a baby.* Do you expect a human baby not to fear? NO you have to show them how to not fear. some dogs spook more easily than others and if you are so antagonistic toward the dog, you are likely making it _worse._ they pick up on our moods very easily. 

i dont know what you should do. i cant comment on this anymore.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

You know Matt, I am a bleeding heart, and my biggest concern is ultimately for the dog's well-being. Since this kind of dog is apparently not what you are looking for, and not willing to invest the time into, I would definitely recommend you trying to work out a return with the breeder. Although that in itself is painful for me to say, because it's obvious that the breeder is an idiot of gigantic proportions and again I wonder about the ultimate destination of this poor pup.

However, in looking at it from a business transaction, as you obviously are. You did get taken for a ride. I would review the contract, see if you have any recourse with regard to returning the dog for a refund or exchange of another puppy. You could consider small claims court, as well.

If protection is your primary goal in obtaining a dog, my suggestion is to shelve that idea altogether and get an alarm system and a Glock. If an intruder really wants to get into your house and hurt your family, a dog isn't going to stop him from doing so. Dogs can be shot too.

I'm done too.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

BTW I temperament test pups I get at 7 weeks. This is before I make the final decision on which dog I am going to get. 

There are a bunch of different tests out there you can follow. I have used several over the years and can make up my own. I want a drivey, dominant pup. Frankly I want a challenging pup. Full of piss and vinegar. Its what I like.I used the Volhard test on Merlin. He scored mostly 2's on that test. And most of the sections that he did not score a two in, he scored ones in. 
I remember when we were banging on the pan he came running and barking. Barking so hard his feet came off the ground. I am like thats my little fireball. 

After that I didn't worry about it. I brought him home right at 9 weeks and started training and socializing. During the first year, he went up and down. Mostly up but there were two distinct periods where he was pretty fearful about stuff. around 3-4 months, around 8 months and then a slight one at about a year. During those times he would submissive pee. I should have bought stock in Bounty when he was around eight months.

I ignored all that stuff and kept training and socializing. He grew up to be the dog I thought he would. Bold, drivey and fearless. 

I am pretty convinced that the temperament you have at 7 weeks is what you will end up with unless you screw it up.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

I'm not gonna repeat "just a baby" stuff, but, being a big fan of this breed, I will say this...

Mastiffs mature very slowly and tend to have a lot of defensive instincts (that's what makes them great guardians). If you want your dog to be a solid guardian when he is mature and ready to guard, then you should focus your socialization on him having _only positive experiences_ until he is over a year. You push too hard now, when he is so young, and you will break this dog (if you haven't already).

Many mastiffs will not guard at all until they are comfortable with you and their environment, which means you have to build the trust in your relationship with him.

I have a Caucasian Ovcharka that didn't guard at all until he reached 1.5 years of age and now he is the most fierce and impressive guardian I have ever seen (and I have seen a lot of them).

As others have said, you need to give this pup time to bond with you and mature, you should expect him to be a _real_ guard dog until he reaches social maturity, and that can be as late as 3-5 years old in some Mastiffs! You should be focused on giving him positive experiences in life now, so he can be a guardian with good judgment later once he is socially mature.

We also have a Cane Corso, Blue, who showed solid guardian instincts at a very young age (8 weeks) but didn't actually mature into anything I would consider a "guard dog" until he hit 1 year, and even now (he is 1.5 years) I think he needs more work and more socialization and experience before I'll trust his guarding instincts.

It takes time to raise a Mastiff, but if you do it right you will have an awesome dog.

PS: I agree with everyone else, please don't take him to that puppy class. It sounds poorly managed and counter productive.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

I'll add that "fear" is a _really important_ part of the foundation of a good guard dog's temperament. Its their recovery from a fearful situation that really matters. Without the fear a guard dog would have poor judgment, and that would be a HUGE liability. The defensiveness (aka "fear") is what keeps a working dog alive and alert.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Marsh Muppet said:


> A dog-aggressive guard dog is a pretty useless thing.


I think that depends on what you need your dog to guard against.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

I am amazed that anyone would think a 4 mth old puppy would be able to guard anything. That's like saying a one of your kids can take care of themself...NOT going to happen.

I think you have unrealistic expectations from this BABY dog (emphasis on baby). Yep, get an alarm system and a gun...that way you won't have to worry about pee or training.

This is probably going to get me in trouble but you don't deserve this puppy. And yes, I know I haven't said anything constructive, but I couldn't NOT respond. 

I won't post again...I might get banned if I actually wrote what I was thinking.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I am a little late to the party but I have to tell you, I have had to deal with a few submissive peeing dogs and it is a challenge. You CAN improve this with time and patients and of course, if the dog doesn't have anything physically wrong like a UTI. 

Handing out treats to everyone that came to my house and doing the ignore, treat thing worked well. Time, patience, and love will help him.

Please tell me you are going to post pictures of this little honey. Boerboels are one of my favorite breeds. Give this little shaver some time to grow up, right now he is just an infant. Socialize the heck out of him but protect him from his environment at the same time. IF you want him to feel safe, you must protect him.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Inga said:


> IF you want him to feel safe, you must protect him.


Against my better judgment I am going to say one last thing, prompted by this that Inga posted: 

You want this dog to eventually protect YOU and your family, but in the meantime you aren't willing to do what it takes to protect him. Why should he trust you and why in the world would he want to ever protect you?? 

It's a shame when people expect more from a dog than they are willing to put into one.


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

Some of you all take what I'm saying way too far. I know the dog is 4 months old. I'm not retarded. I also know the dog pissed all over my floor when my grand mother brought her 3 month old Maltese over about 2 hours ago. I'm not worried about myself. I take full advantage of my ccw license. Most of you are acting like this isn't a dog forum for questions like the one I'm asking. For all the ones that think they're experts about dog traing I called a guy in Cali that has been training swat/police dogs for 12 years and he told me not all dogs are guard dogs. He told me it's all bull crap about leaving the nest too early. He also said that all dogs turn out the way nature makes them. He said if they're born mean then they'll be mean and if they're nice then they'll be nice. 

None of this matters!!! It's not even my question. Most of you need to read my post over. I bought a working class dog that could fit in the toy group. My orignal question was how to build confidence. That's funny that you said I shouldn't own a dog. I guess I'll go downtown where it smells like coco butter and newports and ask them how they build confidence. 

I thank all of you for your input!!! The mods can take my thread off because I got all the info I need. 

If anybody knows mike vick tell him I have a dog for him!!!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

BradA1878 said:


> I think that depends on what you need your dog to guard against.



True. I was assuming an antipersonnel unit is what is desired.


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## losinsusan (Nov 20, 2009)

A good breeder should breed for temperment first. And after reading about your breed since I had not heard of it before, it just seems like the puppy is not as described. A puppy going to a home with children or in my opinion any home should be with the other puppies to learn bit inhibition and many other things. Did the breeder offer to replace the puppy due to the circumstances. I realized I am sure you have fallen in love with your pup, but in the long haul, it might be a consideration. I had gotten an English Pointer pup many years ago from a breeder. Gorgeous dog but totally agoraphobic and seriously damaged. It couldn't go anywhere but our house and yard. It would pee when walked out in front we never got much further. Training wasn't helping. Car rides to the vet meant a mess in the car with fear vomitting and feces everywhere. We hung in there with this for three long years. We left for work one day, came home five hours later and the dog had a nervous breakdown. Unresponsive, shock like, foaming etc. Rushed to vet and recommended the dog be put down. This was before medications that could of helped the dog's anxiety. I would hate for anyone to go through such heartbreak. And I hate to see a dog suffer so. I am not saying this will happen to you, but in the early part of the puppies life, perhaps starting over with a different pup from the breeder might be wise. For us fearful dogs are just that. Hard to train it out of them and hard to live with. My heart breaks for the dogs who suffer.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Matt_lowry said:


> Some of you all take what I'm saying way too far. I know the dog is 4 months old. I'm not retarded. I also know the dog pissed all over my floor when my grand mother brought her 3 month old Maltese over about 2 hours ago. I'm not worried about myself. I take full advantage of my ccw license. Most of you are acting like this isn't a dog forum for questions like the one I'm asking. For all the ones that think they're experts about dog traing I called a guy in Cali that has been training swat/police dogs for 12 years and he told me not all dogs are guard dogs. He told me it's all bull crap about leaving the nest too early. He also said that all dogs turn out the way nature makes them. He said if they're born mean then they'll be mean and if they're nice then they'll be nice.
> 
> None of this matters!!! It's not even my question. Most of you need to read my post over. I bought a working class dog that could fit in the toy group. My orignal question was how to build confidence. That's funny that you said I shouldn't own a dog. I guess I'll go downtown where it smells like coco butter and newports and ask them how they build confidence.
> 
> ...


With the info given, I think most of the people DID answer your question (myself excluded of course). That said, I would like to know what you got from this thread. Hopefully, that you need to protect this pup from getting beat up and have the patience to work with him to make him into a confident, well rounded dog. 

Good luck.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Matt_lowry said:


> If anybody knows mike vick tell him I have a dog for him!!!


Pray you never meet me in real life. After the above comment...youd need a guard dog...wait..no an elephant gun to stop me from kicking your *** for that.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Matt_lowry said:


> That's funny that you said I shouldn't own a dog. I guess I'll go downtown where it smells like coco butter and newports and ask them how they build confidence.


Please tell me this isn't saying what I think you are saying. We already had one recent poster blame bad dogs on minorities and low-income people, we don't need anymore racist idiots.


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## QuidditchGirl (Apr 9, 2010)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> That said, I would like to know what you got from this thread. Hopefully, that you need to protect this pup from getting beat up and have the patience to work with him to make him into a confident, well rounded dog.





Matt_lowry said:


> If anybody knows mike vick tell him I have a dog for him!!!


I'm not overly confident. 

I wish I could take that dog off your hands. I'm sad for its future.


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## Matt_lowry (Apr 17, 2010)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> With the info given, I think most of the people DID answer your question (myself excluded of course). That said, I would like to know what you got from this thread. Hopefully, that you need to protect this pup from getting beat up and have the patience to work with him to make him into a confident, well rounded dog.
> 
> Good luck.


what you said is what I've learned from this thread.



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Pray you never meet me in real life. After the above comment...youd need a guard dog...wait..no an elephant gun to stop me from kicking your *** for that.


If thats really how you feel we can set up an MMA match. Lets find out whos the better man. You can type in OG WOYER in youtube and find out who I am. I'm the strong looking tall guy. I'll for real set up a match with you if you want too

I called the breeder and returning the dog at my lost. I'm sure he'll just resale it to some other sucker.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Matt_lowry said:


> I called a guy in Cali that has been training swat/police dogs for 12 years and he told me not all dogs are guard dogs. He told me it's all bull crap about leaving the nest too early. He also said that all dogs turn out the way nature makes them. He said if they're born mean then they'll be mean and if they're nice then they'll be nice.





Matt_lowry said:


> I guess I'll go downtown where it smells like coco butter and newports and ask them how they build confidence.





Matt_lowry said:


> If anybody knows mike vick tell him I have a dog for him!!!


Boy, you're batting a thousand with comments like these!!!

You're showing you are combative, ignorant, racist, surround yourself with idiots who know nothing about dogs, and that you are not willing to learn anything about dogs. 

I don't normally pray, but I definitely pray for this puppy's safety in the hands of someone like you. 

By the way ... I hope you DO meet Zim someday ... you will deserve everything you get and then some!


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Sadly, this seems to be one of those lose/lose situations  ...

It seems that, before it's too late for the dog,
our O.P. should find a caring home for his puppy,
and then go out and purchase a nice pet handgun?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Matt_lowry said:


> what you said is what I've learned from this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all Zim is a woman. 

Second your Vick comment is out of line as is your racial slur. 

Third if that's your attitude, the dog is better off returned to the breeder. 

Many people here, myself included tried to help you and your dog however for some people there is no help.


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