# Purina Food: Proplan, Proplan Selects



## Miki the aussie owner (Mar 4, 2012)

*Is it ok to have meat by-products in dog food?* What is your opion. Or any other by-products. I have looked at the proplan and proplan selects labels and i was not very pleased with them. *How can most top show dogs eat this stuff, and still look good? 
*
Even Proplan selects has by products! it is the rice! Proplan Selects is pruinas highesdt quailty dog food! i wonder when dog food companies will make good food.

I have bought Purina food a few times, i have noticed the food smell different, proabally all the chemicals in it, natral balance, nutro, and the natraul scince hills diet all do not have a stron smell. 

I feed my dogs the best i can get. they eat nutro natral choice. and they look great!


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Show dogs are groomed... a lot. A lot of show dogs eat it. But I know plenty of show dogs that eat premium kibbles and raw too. 

Would personally never feed Purina or Nutro, not even remotely trust worthy companies IMO.


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## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm not a fan of Purina, Hills or Nutro.

But with that said, not every dog requires a high quality food to do well. I know with my own dogs, they do "fine" on Diamond Naturals or Chicken Soup dog food--but they do even better on something like Fromm (for example). It's all in what you can afford and what the dog does well on. 

Personally I do not like by products and avoid them.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Nutro Natural Choice is almost all rice.. . .I would choose Pro Plan Selects over it. Examples: 
Nutro: Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Whole Brown Rice, Chicken, Poultry Fat
Pro Plan Selects: Chicken, barley, dried egg product, chicken meal, brewers dried yeast, brewers rice, animal fat


In general, I think Pro Plan is overpriced for the quality. But it's not the worst food out there. I don't like meat by-products in dry foods, but I'm more forgiving of it in canned foods. 

As for the show dogs, we don't know what else they're eating or what supplements they get. So just saying "a lot of show dogs eat Pro Plan" doesn't tell us much about their overall nutritional intake.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

I think that the trustworthiness of a company is very important.

With all the recalls from 2007, and the things we are seeing with chicken jerky now, knowing where companies get their ingredients from (and that being a decent source) is in some ways, more important than the ingredients themselves....


I'm willing to feed foods from companies like Fromm, Acana, Earthborn, Verus, Precise, etc, most of these have grains, and the company itself and their manufacturing process is more important I think....



The pet food industry is really a scary thing. Wish there were tighter regulations so people wouldn't have to worry about what they are putting in their dogs mouth every day (they shouldn't have to...) but they do...


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Willowy said:


> Nutro Natural Choice is almost all rice.. . .I would choose Pro Plan Selects over it. Examples:
> Nutro: Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Whole Brown Rice, Chicken, Poultry Fat
> Pro Plan Selects: Chicken, barley, dried egg product, chicken meal, brewers dried yeast, brewers rice, animal fat
> 
> ...




Yes but Nutro at least has chicken meal as a first ingredient. When you remove the water content of the chicken in the pro plan, it will be much farther down the ingredient list. So the first two ingredients are actually barley and dried egg product....


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

meggels said:


> Yes but Nutro at least has chicken meal as a first ingredient. When you remove the water content of the chicken in the pro plan, it will be much farther down the ingredient list. So the first two ingredients are actually barley and dried egg product....


Yeah, but with ALL those rice ingredients in the Nutro, it probably ends up being way more rice than chicken, and I'd rather see egg than rice. But I wouldn't choose either of them, personally. Just pointing out how silly it is to bash Purina if you feed Nutro.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Agree....I can't really say a good thing about either of them lol.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

ProPlan has also tested positive for pentobarbital.. the chemical used to euthanize pets (see link below). That was in 1998 so I'm not sure if they still use euthanized pets in their food or not. Animal shelters are a legal source of meat, which is why I avoid ANY food that has unnamed sources. "Meat and bone meal" or "animal fat" or things like that can be euthanized pets.

http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Centers...VM/CVMFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm129135.htm


More on topic, I don't think there is anything really wrong with byproducts themselves. But there is little if any meat in byproducts so they should not be counted as a meat source. Heads and feet are great to feed, but meat needs to be meat.


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## Miki the aussie owner (Mar 4, 2012)

I was kinda wondering if nutro had to much rice in it. in my opinion by products are a red flag to show how cheap the company is willing to give over quality. I know show dogs they eat a lot of coat supplements, if they need coat. I try to get the best food that i can afford. do any of you know any good food that runs $50 per bag for about 30 pounds?


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## amandadun (Mar 11, 2012)

I like to buy my dog organic dog food from Amazon


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you shop at the right places (hint: not big-box pet stores), you can get almost any food for under that. My recommendation is Taste of the Wild. Tractor Supply Co has the best prices on it. Surprisingly, small boutique pet stores/groomers sometimes have better prices than the big-box places. But farm stores and feed stores are your best bet for low prices. And Amazon, if you don't have a dealer in your area. They usually cost a wee bit more, but the extra could be less than the cost of gas to the store.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Miki the aussie owner said:


> I was kinda wondering if nutro had to much rice in it. in my opinion by products are a red flag to show how cheap the company is willing to give over quality. I know show dogs they eat a lot of coat supplements, if they need coat. I try to get the best food that i can afford. do any of you know any good food that runs $50 per bag for about 30 pounds?


Nature's Domain from Costco seems to be a good food. Grain free. Less than $30 for 35 lbs.
http://www.naturesdomainpetfood.com/about-natures-domain


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

OnPoint said:


> Sibe, what are you talking about? There are more amino acids per gram in by-product meals than meat meals, and there is less ash and they are generally balanced with respect to calcium and phosphorous. Dogs don't need "meat" they need animal based amino acids.
> 
> So then you recommend Natures Domain a food that is 50% carbohydrate.
> 
> *Do you know anything about dog food?*


You might want to reconsider the way you talk to people here, your first post to this forum is quite rude. There are nicer ways to disagree with people.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Perhaps, OnPoint, you could recommend a better food for the same price? Dogs do need meat. They can survive on byproduct, sure, but to really thrive they need meat. It's what they are designed to eat. Please feel free to offer me any scientific studies that back up your point.


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## OnPoint (Mar 17, 2012)

Sibe said:


> Perhaps, OnPoint, you could recommend a better food for the same price? Dogs do need meat. They can survive on byproduct, sure, but to really thrive they need meat. It's what they are designed to eat. Please feel free to offer me any scientific studies that back up your point.


Show me evidence the amino acids that are in the skin, organs and digestive tract are any different than the ones in muscle meat. There is nothing magic about meat, in fact a lot of calcium has to be added to dog food that uses just meat meals. 

It is clear you are not well schooled in this. Pet Food Grade By Product meal is meat, skin, organs, the digestive tract and bone. Not heads, feet and feathers.

Explain why, chemically, dogs need meat. Please do. What is in meat?

I can give you a list of 30% protein foods that have half the carbohydrates and more protein that are cheaper.

The problem with these forums is that they seem to have novices that read bits and pieces from other sites and they think they are experts.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

OnPoint said:


> The problem with these forums is that they seem to have novices that read bits and pieces from other sites and they think they are experts.


The bigger problem is that some folks don't know how to stay banned. Eventually, you're going to run out of new user names.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

neither am I, www.dogfoodadvisor.com is a great site to compare dog food, pefrsonally i dont feed anything below 4 stars or that is grain inclusive.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

It seems you're about to go bye bye, but for the sake of other people I'll post this anyway.

AAFCO definitions of byproducts (which I honestly can't seem to find on the AAFCO site itself, but these definitions are plastered all over dog sites. Not much credibility I know. If someone has the definitions from AAFCO itself I'd love a link please.)
Poultry byproduct meal: Consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices. 
Meat byproducts: the non rendered, clean parts, *other than meat*, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hooves. 
Chicken byproduct meal - consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice. 

Not much meat in byproducts. There might be a little on the necks or carcasses of whatever animals are being used but the point of byproducts is to use what's left over after the animal has had the "good" parts cut off.

As far as I know, all kibbles are sprayed ("fortified") with supplements to replace the nutrition that is lost during rendering and extruding, as the heat ruins the natural nutrition.

Why would a dog need 30% protein? That's really high unless it's an extremely active working dog, isn't it? Even most raw meat is 14-20%.

As for meat vs other, here's an example. Info from http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/list. It doesn't matter what I list, the point I really want to make is that feeding *just* meat is not adequate, nor is feeding *just* byproduct. The whole animal, all parts, is ideal. Meat, bone, and organ. Majority meat though because that's where the nutrition is. Organs and bones are important, but the diet should be mostly meat. That's why pet food companies add supplements, vitamins, etc. is to make up for what's not already in the food.

Chicken skin (raw) vs Chicken breast (raw).

The numbers are how many mg per 100g
Iron: 1.08 vs 0.74
Magnesium: 13 vs 25
Phosphorus: 100 vs 174
Potassium: 103 vs 220

Thiamin: 0.033 vs 0.063
Riboflavin: 0.069 vs 0.085
Niacin: 3.987 vs 9.908
B-6: 0.09 vs 0.5

The skin has slightly more Vitamin A, D, and K, and also of course has more fatty acids and cholesterol.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

RonE said:


> The bigger problem is that some folks don't know how to stay banned. Eventually, you're going to run out of new user names.


who is this person anyway? i have seen them go thru like...... a zillion names? i guess some ppl dont have lives :/


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I don't feed by products to my dogs. There are too many dog foods that are higher quality out there, no need for me to feed what I consider an inferior food.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Show dogs are also usually getting a lot of supplements to their diet regardless of what they eat.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Pro Plan is not so good, Pro Plan Selects is decent but way overpriced.


Canidae would be my first choice as far as good quality, and affordable foods go. Chocolate has always done really well on it, even post formula change. About $45 for 30 pounds.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Sibe said:


> ProPlan has also tested positive for pentobarbital.. the chemical used to euthanize pets (see link below). That was in 1998 so I'm not sure if they still use euthanized pets in their food or not. Animal shelters are a legal source of meat, which is why I avoid ANY food that has unnamed sources. "Meat and bone meal" or "animal fat" or things like that can be euthanized pets.
> 
> http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Centers...VM/CVMFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm129135.htm
> 
> ...


Your comment about "meat" just goes to show that you don't know a thing about nutrition. Animals make their own muscle fiber, the only value to eating meat is that meat or muscle fiber contains amino acids. By-products in dog food are from skin, meat, bone, organs and the intestinal tract. Pet Food Grade By-Product Meal does not contain heads, feather or feet. Now, as far as Pet Food Grade By-Product Meal goes, there are generally higher levels of all the amino acids than in any meat meal and the ash is much lower. Chemically, the amino acids in beans and other plant sources are IDENTICAL to those amino acids found in animal sources. The problem with plant-based sources of amino acids is that they are not complete. 

So when you say dogs need "meat" you are completely wrong. In fact, high protein muscle fiber-based kibbles require a lot of calcium to balance the phosphorous. That is why raw diets are best when RMB are the core.

Again, dogs like every other mammal create muscle from amino acids not by eating meat. By-products actually have better sources of amino acids. The best grades of by-product meals are better than most grades of meat meals that are in most dry foods.

Also, your comment about euthanized pets is completely wrong as well because DNA tests confirmed no cats or dogs were in the food. The only Pro Plan that showed any trace was the Beef Formula so the source was probably the fat.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Rourk said:


> Was, I honestly think you need to research dog foods and nutrition again. I'm sorry but Meat is a source of protein; which is a main conductor in proper muscle production. Amino acids might help. So With your statement. I disagree. Also I have seen reports where euthanized animals in their foods. One reason I wont ever feed Ol'Roy as example. I do feed Purina brands to my dogs currently. My dogs had shiny coats and happy and healthy. But this isn't a for sure diet I am keeping my dogs on. I am currently on the hunt for a better quality food.


You are 100% wrong. Meat is a source of amino acids. When meat is digested a mammal's body extracts the amino acids so it can form its own proteins. Depending on the type of protein, the body assembles the amino acids in chains to form the protein. 

The structure of all the proteins in a dog's body is self-determined. What you are suggesting is that beef for example is just absorbed and becomes the muscle fiber of the dogs. This is completely and 100% wrong.

Anyone that confuses protein with amino acids just does not understand basic biology.

The quality of a diet is determined by the level and availability of the amino acids not whether it is the wall of the intestinal tract, the skin or the leg muscle.

Animals do not use protein per se, they use the amino acids in those proteins in there own unique way.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Rourk said:


> Was, I honestly think you need to research dog foods and nutrition again. I'm sorry but Meat is a source of protein; which is a main conductor in proper muscle production. Amino acids might help. So With your statement. I disagree. Also I have seen reports where euthanized animals in their foods. One reason I wont ever feed Ol'Roy as example. I do feed Purina brands to my dogs currently. My dogs had shiny coats and happy and healthy. But this isn't a for sure diet I am keeping my dogs on. I am currently on the hunt for a better quality food.


amino acids MIGHT help? YOU need to go research your nutrition again. amino acids are the building blocks for your dog. they are from your protein source! proteins contain 10 amino acids that your dog can not produce on their own. this is why you need high quality proteins because they are balanced in these amino acids.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I'm disappointed in you guys. Usually somebody spots this guy and reports him so we can ban him yet again. (14 times, so far.) This time I had to hunt him down myself.

You need to step it up a little. :attention:

52Paws 
Beards 
BeingHomest 
BeingHonest 
DogsInTheHouse 
DogsWithBeards 
OnPoint 
RhodesianRB
SeriousDogGuy
tomtommy 
TruthDog 
WalterHasManyDogs 
WasChampionFan
westminsterthree


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Rone I haven't been on in a long time so I'm not us to snuff on who everyone is...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

John Truthman? Yay!


I was starting to suspect but the specific foods he was recommending were different. I think.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> So when you say dogs need "meat" you are completely wrong. In fact, high protein muscle fiber-based kibbles require a lot of calcium to balance the phosphorous. That is why raw diets are best when RMB are the core.
> 
> Again, dogs like every other mammal create muscle from amino acids not by eating meat. By-products actually have better sources of amino acids. The best grades of by-product meals are better than most grades of meat meals that are in most dry foods.
> 
> .


It's been my understanding that the concern is not meat by products, but knowing WHAT species of byproducts we are getting. That sub-par foods are much more tended to not specify.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Sorry Ron. Annamaet is usually the give away for me. What exactly is their motive for being here? Wouldn't 14 bans make it quite clear that they aren't welcome?


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