# Papillon seems averse to grooming



## North&South (May 20, 2015)

Hi,

We've adopted a 2 year old male Papillon. He was a rescue, and we don't know a whole lot about his history. He has had some good training somewhere, though. The animal rescue people said he was quite matted when they got him, however, and from what I've read about Papillons, they don't mat up easily. The rescue organization had to do a lot of trimming around the dog's back end, that's how badly it was matted. 

We've had this dog for 6 days now and he's very cuddly and affectionate with us. He's allowed me to put my fingers in his mouth when I thought he had picked up something he wasn't supposed to have. He has rolled onto his back for me and enjoyed some belly rubs, so I know he's quite comfortable with me holding and handling him. I was able to brush him a bit when we first got him home. And he's kind of a tick magnet when he's outside. He's been very good about allowing me to remove them. I've had to actually cut a couple of knots on his chest and a small one behind an ear, there was nothing else to be done about it. I am finding, however, that he is becoming more averse to brushing. He loves to spend every minute with me (or my husband, if hubby is playing with him), but if I want him to leave the room, picking up the brush will do it. 

We first used a Conair pin brush which got some soft hair that seems kind of downy. (I thought Papillons only had one coat???). A groomer recommended a slicker brush, and we actually have a small version of the one shown here, second from the top. 

http://www.jwpet.com/dog/grodetails.html

The groomer was grooming a dog at the time, and she showed us what motion to use when brushing our dog. However, our dog really doesn't like it _at all_ and I found that the slicker seemed to pull. 

I'm not sure how to approach this. Right now, all three of us (me, husband, and dog) are still building bonds with each other. We've been working on the dog resource guarding me and we are making wonderful progress with that in a very short time. I don't want to ruin all of that. 

We're in a rural area and we don't have a big selection of groomers handy, but I am considering going that route. But the dog does need to be brushed in the meantime even if we do take him to a professional groomer. I found a wide tooth plastic comb that I myself don't use, so that became the dog's, and he's not bad with me using that for the hair on his sides and back, and I was able to comb his chest with it. 

This kind of belongs in the training thread, but I am wondering first what would be the best sort of brush or comb to use on him. The German Shepherds we used to own absolutely loved being brushed, it felt good to them. I would like this dog to feel the same way, but if he's shying away from it, it obviously doesn't feel good. I think he may have had grooming experiences that were not enjoyable. Likely getting trimmed at his back end under his tail was not pleasant, but it had to be done.


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

Yes, grooming sometimes is uncomfortable for the dog, so if he's learned that leaving is an option, why shouldn't he?

I'd go at it with a two pronged approach. Part of a groomer's advantage is a place/situation where the dog learns that there is no escape. I would find a dedicated grooming spot. Some people use the top of the washing machine, with a rug or mat on top. An elevated place seems to help. Then tether the dog by the leash.

Then I would do everything possible to make grooming enjoyable. I always use plenty of treats when introducing my pups to brushing and combing and nail trimming. They will tolerate it now because I make it worth their while. ;-) With a small dog you need super tiny tiny treats. 

I would stick with a slicker brush if there are any tangles, but some slickers are more gentle than others. The gentle ones are not as good at getting out serious matts and tangles, but if you are staying ahead of the game a gentle slicker will work and be better tolerated. 

Good luck!


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## North&South (May 20, 2015)

Maybe I'm not using the slicker brush correctly, but I found it to be absolutely horrible. I was trying to use a motion like the groomer demonstrated. She was working on a dog that looked like a Bichon, but it had that mane-looking sort of tail like my dog has. The slicker seemed to pull when I used it, which I didn't like. My dog found it very uncomfortable. The Bichon that the groomer was working on didn't seem to be the slightest bit bothered by it. At some point, I am going to have our dog at a groomer, so maybe I'll stay and watch to see the correct technique. 
Our back foyer is the grooming spot because that's where it's needed the most. We have a lot of bits of various vegetation that he manages to sweep up and I remove that as soon as we get in. Yesterday I tethered the leash to the doorknob and gave him a light brushing all over with the pin brush. He didn't like it much, but it wasn't pulling and tugging much either. I think the leash should have been shorter, though, so he wasn't able to turn around so often. 
Nail trimming is probably going to take the 2 of us, as he does not like having his feet touched. I don't think any dog does. His nails are light and the quick is easy to see, so that's good. I found one dew claw that is dark, though, and it really needs cutting. That's going to take a few tries, but it needs to be done soon, as it's already curling under. The other dew claw is cut right down to practically nothing, not sure when or how that happened. That was before he came to us. What is left of that dew claw appears to be light, but I may be mistaken. 
Fortunately, he is really, really good about letting me do anything with his ears. I can touch his ears anywhere, remove small snarls in the hair, check for ticks and remove what I find, doesn't bother him at all. The German Shepherds we used to have couldn't stand having their ears touched.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

If he tolerates the comb then use the comb. Grooming is getting the snarls out without damaging the coat and a comb is actually best. Most dogs dislike combing more than pin brushes and I completely agree about the slicker. It is easy to scrape the skin and the large surface means more fur is pulled with each stroke. Slickers can remove more loose fur but that isn't where you are now anyway.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

You can train a dog to tolerate pretty much anything. Here is the classic video on counter conditioning. It will change your life.

On a related note, it's possible his undercoat is really tangled and you're pulling on those tangles and hurting him. Get him groomed now, make sure there aren't any tangles, matts or damaged skin and then start cc'ing to grooming.


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## North&South (May 20, 2015)

Amazing video! I am learning a lot on the subject of dog training, that's for sure. 

Our dog doesn't have an undercoat (it's the breed). We're kind of lucky there. I'm finding a few snarls and removing them gently when he's relaxed. 

I am really forward to getting him to a professional groomer, but that may not happen for a while. We had a shelter dog here on a trial before this one (didn't work out) and that dog had been to a local groomer. The dog was so perfumed up that my husband was sneezing. I don't know how the dog could stand it. If we go to that groomer, I will be making sure she uses non scented products or try to find a different groomer. I don't think we have a lot of options here. In the meantime, I'm trying to keep pup in decent condition. 

I had no idea there were so many different kinds of brushes and for different kinds of coats.


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## Caro (Sep 10, 2012)

Ask the groomer for no cologne if scents are a problem for your husband. If you find a groomer that you like & trust but her products are all overly scented, most groomers should be willing to let you bring your own shampoo.


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## North&South (May 20, 2015)

Using that technique in the video, pup was quite good for being brushed. I did have to tether him so I could do his tail, but I kept giving him treats and telling him what a good boy he was and I was able to brush his tail and the backs of his legs as well. He doesn't run away when he sees the brush anymore.


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## ICARRY66 (6 mo ago)

North&South said:


> Hi,
> 
> We've adopted a 2 year old male Papillon. He was a rescue, and we don't know a whole lot about his history. He has had some good training somewhere, though. The animal rescue people said he was quite matted when they got him, however, and from what I've read about Papillons, they don't mat up easily. The rescue organization had to do a lot of trimming around the dog's back end, that's how badly it was matted.
> 
> ...


A


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## ICARRY66 (6 mo ago)

ICARRY66 said:


> A


Ooos sent send and empty!! Anyway most bigger dogs loved brushed it seems. So I’ve alway bought the smallest dog brushes and combs. Your comb was smaller thinner than the brushes you used I bet. Mine hates to be brushed and she’s 9 Mo old. I do it approx 3 xs a week. The hip area she lays on gets flat looking to me next is a matt. Also I am curious what makes you think he has more than one coat


North&South said:


> Hi,
> 
> We've adopted a 2 year old male Papillon. He was a rescue, and we don't know a whole lot about his history. He has had some good training somewhere, though. The animal rescue people said he was quite matted when they got him, however, and from what I've read about Papillons, they don't mat up easily. The rescue organization had to do a lot of trimming around the dog's back end, that's how badly it was matted.
> 
> ...


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

This thread is from 2015 and the the OP is no longer active. Please feel free to start your own thread or participate in current discussions, but I'm closing this one to further replies.


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