# Definition of "Loose Leash"



## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

What would the correct definition of "loose leash" be? Not when you're working on something, or walking somewhere specific? About 50% of the time Dakota walks with a bow in the leash, staying on the sidewalk, sniffing the grass. About 45% of the time she's at the end of the leash, not pulling, but with a little tension. It's almost like she needs that tension for communication when she's not where she can see me without turning, since she can't hear me. Is this something I need to correct, or is it ok as long as she isn't pulling or yanking? That's the other 5%, lol, and we are working on that.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

tskoffina said:


> What would the correct definition of "loose leash" be? Not when you're working on something, or walking somewhere specific? About 50% of the time Dakota walks with a bow in the leash, staying on the sidewalk, sniffing the grass. About 45% of the time she's at the end of the leash, not pulling, but with a little tension. It's almost like she needs that tension for communication when she's not where she can see me without turning, since she can't hear me. Is this something I need to correct, or is it ok as long as she isn't pulling or yanking? That's the other 5%, lol, and we are working on that.


My definition is any tension at all. If the leash doesn't have some slack in it, then it's not loose.


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## Pynzie (Jan 15, 2010)

I think that if it doesn't bother you and it doesn't make her harder to walk then it's fine.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I prefer no tension at all, and mine is pretty good most of the time, but she sometimes walks with tension in the lead without pulling. I don't know how much the tension is affecting her muscles. I know pulling causes problems, but how much tension does it take to cause damage/muscle tension? It doesn't feel like much to me, but she's only little and the tension is on her neck and back. For me it's just my hand, and my hand can handle being pulled a lot better than a dog's neck can....

It's up to you, but I don't call tension a "loose lead".


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you're just talking about walking your dog, then whatever is acceptable to both you and the dog is fine. If you don't mind a taut leash, no problem. But if you're going for the CGC or whatever that requires "loose leash walking", then, no, that probably wouldn't qualify.


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

No, it's just for us. I want to get her to the point my mother can safely walk her, but I swear, it's like she needs it. It doesn't have a bow, as I said, but it's not taught either. I don't have any tension in my arm, other than from my hand holding the leash, but not like I'm pulling or holding it back, but in a good position where I barely have to move to jiggle the leash so she knows to look back at me so I can show her where we're going. I haven't gotten to the point I want to work on the vibrating collar outside yet, I want that to be 100% look at me, so if I have it on out there, and she doesn't look, then that gives her the idea it's ok not to if she'd rather be doing something else, and if I try walking in a more structured way, she doesn't do her business, because she's staying so close and looking at me, and focused, and we haven't gotten the we're done command yet, to tell her done working on this, go play. I worry if I don't do loose leash correctly she won't learn correctly and I'll never get as far with getting her ok with other people. I don't think we'd ever do CGC, maybe if there an equivalent from another organization or club, but not that one.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

I actually enjoy a little bit of tension in my dog's leash. I like her to drive ahead of me with her head low, tail up, and bouncing in her little trot. To me, it means that she is enjoying the experience of being out there. Since that wasn't always the case, it definitely makes me happy to see that.

We still use walks for bonding - usually once a day I walk her on a 20 ft leash and reward for checking in, recalls, etc.

With all that said, she will respond if I tell her to leave it, or to walk "with me". If she's sniffing something, it usually takes a "c'mon" or a slight tug on the leash to get her going again. Works fine for me because she's the type of dog who doesn't take advantage of the situation by becoming an extreme puller.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

My definition is like RBark's.

Tension is a communication method between us. If Wally wants to walk somewhere and he's sniffing around or whatever and I'm not moving, he'll put a little tension while his body is pointed that way and he'll slack the leash and look back at me for direction/permission (which is usually just me walking in the direction he wants to go in).

If he's too far ahead/behind - the light tension gets his attention and he'll keep up/slow down.

Otherwise, if we're on the move or we're both not moving (like stopped at an intersection), zero tension.


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

Ok, but if you're on the move and there's no tension and you turn or stop, do you say or do something or do you wait for tension and him to figure it out? And by allowing tension, does that mean he / she's not learning loose leash walking?


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

tskoffina said:


> Ok, but if you're on the move and there's no tension and you turn or stop, do you say or do something or do you wait for tension and him to figure it out? And by allowing tension, does that mean he / she's not learning loose leash walking?



If I turn and Wally doesn't follow/recognize the turn, he'll get some tension and then has to get back into position, or else it will be "too much tension" and I'll stop and do the "be a tree" routine (which isn't even that big a deal because if I stop, he'll come into finish/heel position forthwith now). I say nothing. I let the tension and/or my sudden non-movement speak for me. He has to recognize what I want from what I do (or am not doing).

So I allow that little bit of tension for him to recognize "oops I'm now out of position" and give him a chance to self-correct. Most of the time he does. If he doesn't I stop and we go nowhere until he gets back into heel/finish position. Then I'll start walking again - again saying nothing. He has to recognize I'm on the move again from my right foot moving forward.

And yes, he and I both do know and feel the difference between no tension, light tension (the one that serves as the "get in position" or "I'd like to go this way" if he's moving and I'm not), and "hard" tension (the one that halts everything until he gets in position).


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm sorry if I'm sounding odd, it's late, lol, and I just can't picture. Does Wally look back as he walks, how much leash does he have? I'm assuming he's not walking in a heel. Should allowing the tension, as long as it isn't pulling, just walking at the end of the leash, delay the learning of the correct behavior then, in your opinion?


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

tskoffina said:


> I'm sorry if I'm sounding odd, it's late, lol, and I just can't picture. Does Wally look back as he walks, how much leash does he have? I'm assuming he's not walking in a heel. Should allowing the tension, as long as it isn't pulling, just walking at the end of the leash, delay the learning of the correct behavior then, in your opinion?


Wally walks in heel position at all times when we are "on the move" (as in going somewhere specific and..."determined" I guess - like if we are taking our walking route at a brisk-ish pace or I want to walk to our resting point at the end of the neighborhood road before continuing on the return route home). It's basically the "default" walking position (before I even know what "heel position" was, I always made him walk side-by-side with me and no pulling or lagging behind). 

The allowing of tension when I stay still is when I let him sniff around or what not and exploring around and I'm just ambling along near him and we walks faster than me. Then he'll feel a hint of tension, stop and look at me. His body is still facing where he wants to go, but his gaze is turned to me, willing me to move in that direction, or waiting for me to give him some direction. The tension in the leash is gone. It's literally like a 1/8 second of tension then it's slack. It's the sensation, he feels it - and slacks it.

The tension I speak of when I turn (and he's supposed to be following in heel position) is also a hint and he is to self-correct. 

I never allow a constant state of tension or any indication of pulling/lunging/yanking (that is never allowed in any situation and I will ignore it and again give a chance for self-correction - and if he doesn't I will snap my fingers once. He's to turn and look at me. If he doesn't I will verbally redirect him to come to my side. I will then go in the opposite direction when I move again, denying him what he wanted to get to). 

All activity on leash, be it sniffing around or a "determined" walk is done with zero tension in the leash.


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

I walk her about 50 to the grass, and she walks well at my side, then we walk about 30 feet back and fourth and she's typically just at the end of the leash, not pulling, but there at the grass. I'll have to find a way to work on this. Hmmm, not sure how to do it if she doesn't pull. I don't think the tree thing would work for the, and the snap won't, lol. Sigh. I really need a trainer...


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Have you tried marking and rewarding while she's walking nicely at your side? For example, while walking to the grass and she's at your side, praise her gently (to help keep her calm) and give her a little tidbit of a treat. This might build in the position since she'll want to be where the rewards come. That's a lot of how I got progress with Wally. 

If she's at the end of the leash, is it possible to walk her away from the grass (negative punishment for going to far)? Then when she gets back into position, praise her and take her back towards the grass. This is sort of like the "penalty yards" approach where she'll get "penalized" some distance for being too far from you.


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

I tried the treats, but I found she has two modes, I LOVE that treat, I'll do anything for it, and you HAVE to be kidding me. If I have a good treat then she never does anything in the grass, she won't go near it. She's glued to my side waiting for more. She's funny like that. I haven't figured out a signal for we're done, or go play, or something. Would it be counter productive to have her come and sit for me if she goes to far?


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

tskoffina said:


> I tried the treats, but I found she has two modes, I LOVE that treat, I'll do anything for it, and you HAVE to be kidding me. If I have a good treat then she never does anything in the grass, she won't go near it. She's glued to my side waiting for more. She's funny like that. I haven't figured out a signal for we're done, or go play, or something. Would it be counter productive to have her come and sit for me if she goes to far?


I don't think so. That's what I did for Wally and then I reward him for when he came back and then we continue on and then reward as he stays by my side. Eventually, feeling the leash go tight was a cue for him to come back (and I'd reward it). Then he started hanging around me while walking (which I reward, of course).


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

So when it's time for Wally to do his business, how do you get him to leave and wander? I can't get her to leave my side.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

If I'm walking a dog it's dog's job to keep an eye on me and adjust accordingly. That being said, I want dog strictly in a heeling program which means if I stop walking dog is sitting. When I get to area for dog to dump then I release dog with an "At Ease" command which allows dog to move to end of lead and investigate area.


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

I think I'm loosing my mind with this, or over analyzing it, but I can't get her to my side yet WITHOUT treating her. And if I do that NOTHING gets her away from my side, including someone else with food. So how do I train an at ease type command if I can't get her to walk away?


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

tskoffina said:


> So when it's time for Wally to do his business, how do you get him to leave and wander? I can't get her to leave my side.


I say "go potty" and he goes, does his thing, then comes back into position when he's done. I "taught" go potty by saying it every time right when he's about to do his thing and then praise when he's finished.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

With me I have large fenced compund to work in and then when done just unsnap lead give "At Ease" command and dog is loose to do as he pleases. Let's say I'm on the road and pull into rest stop I have a 2 lead setup, dog is taken from vehicle on 6 ft lead and heeled to dog area and then a 15 ft lead snapped to dog and the "At Ease" command given and dog can dump. The actual swapping of leads is a pre-signal and dog knows the program. This is also worked on before in compound. Even though I have had dogs trustworthy off lead I am always on lookout for Murphy's Law to strike, hence the 2 lead setup. If dog is a customer's dog they prefer dog is returned unharmed and safe is goooooddddd.

I am fortunate as living on large fenced property don't have to walk dogs unless it's for special training etc.


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

Lol, yeah, we're in a townhouse so I have to walk for everything, and I try to get her some excercise outside too, as she's a pointer and I know at least she seems to need a bit. It's just frustrating the all or nothing reaction she has. I tried walking her with 2 leashes and 2 people, switched when we got there and Dad took the long leash I I tried runing like an idiot, and she stayed right with me, but when I got tired she kept at my side and NEVER did anything, and that was giving Dad treats too.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

tskoffina said:


> Lol, yeah, we're in a townhouse so I have to walk for everything, and I try to get her some excercise outside too, as she's a pointer and I know at least she seems to need a bit. It's just frustrating the all or nothing reaction she has. I tried walking her with 2 leashes and 2 people, switched when we got there and Dad took the long leash I I tried runing like an idiot, and she stayed right with me, but when I got tired she kept at my side and NEVER did anything, and that was giving Dad treats too.


There might be a way, if you had an area that you could plant/hide some treats so they are not obvious sightwise to dog but working a dog into a breeze/wind so that dog could smell hidden treat and then you stop and dog smelling treat may want to continue towards treat away from you and at that time start using a release command when dog gets into close proximity of treat. You will need a lead that you can play out as dog works towards treat and a lot of good boys etc when treat is found. Don't have a clue whether it will work but just something to confuse your program.


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## tskoffina (Jul 23, 2010)

Let me mull on it, I'll prob have more questions tomorrow, cause I have to figure out if a hand signal is conductive to that method. Otherwise that might really work.


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## B-Hizzle (Sep 16, 2010)

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I wanna train my pup to walking with a loose leash. I've taken him for two short walks just up and down the street so far and he seems to respond well most of the time. Sometimes he'll get distracted by something, but a tug or two and he'll start walking again. I haven't had to incorporate treats to reward him for following my directions/commands since he really hasn't strayed too far off.

My biggest concern is him being too young at this point to even be walking even though it's only short distances since he's only 9 weeks old. Should I stop and wait for him to get a bit older?



B


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

B-Hizzle said:


> I haven't had to incorporate treats to reward him for following my directions/commands since he really hasn't strayed too far off.


As long as you praise him.  If he's following your directions on his own, I'd say that's worth some praise at least 



B-Hizzle said:


> My biggest concern is him being too young at this point to even be walking even though it's only short distances since he's only 9 weeks old. Should I stop and wait for him to get a bit older?


Short distances are probably fine, but definitely save the longer stuff for when he gets older. I would also walk on some softer surfaces (like grass) some also. I've heard that staying on hard surfaces might wear joints some at his age. Don't quote me on that, though.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

KBLover said:


> As long as you praise him.  If he's following your directions on his own, I'd say that's worth some praise at least
> 
> 
> 
> Short distances are probably fine, but definitely save the longer stuff for when he gets older. I would also walk on some softer surfaces (like grass) some also. I've heard that staying on hard surfaces might wear joints some at his age. Don't quote me on that, though.


I'll quote you cause it's good info, also remember your pup is not fully protected from parvo and other asst diseases till he gets adult shots. You just want to be careful where you walk him even places with no dog traffic could have squirrels/***** etc that can carry bad stuff.


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