# Are Classes Worth it?



## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

I keep wanting to take a class on something, but every time I try to find one I run into the same problem...

It just seems so easy and so much faster to just start all the stuff at home? 
I was going to take my GSD to obedience classes but now that I'm working on it at home, she's right in between the stages of the classes... She's not really beginner because she knows all the commands and is reliable in the house, but she's not ready for advanced yet either because she's not off-leash-with-distractions reliable. 

Then I wanted to try nose work... While I was waiting for a few instructors to get back to me on classes in the area, I just started it myself at home and a few sessions later Porsche is doing all the things the beginner classes say they teach... But she's gotta be way too new to it to go into the next level of the class?

Same thing with agility... I'd be interested in learning it, but it just seems too easy to set up the obstacles at home when it gets warmer?

I can see how protection classes are valuable, that's not something I can just teach at home. But Protection is like, ridiculously expensive in comparison to everything else, and I'm pretty sure my dog is too submissive for it anyways. 

Classes are expensive and are also usually once a week... I want to take one, but can't really justify spending so much money on them?

What do classes give you?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> She's not really beginner because she knows all the commands and is reliable in the house,


One reason to consider classes is that a dog who "knows" all the commands at home often forgets many of those commands amid the distraction of a class. A good class can also help you refine your techniques and tighten up the dog's responses to commands. 

For agility, I would start with a class for safety's sake even if you then set up obstacles at home. Proper form and such being important to not injure a dog.

Classes aren't a requirement by any means, but if you can find a good training facility that is reasonably affordable to you, trying a class and seeing if you (and the dog) like it is often a useful and fun activity. You might also look into the online classes; there is a thread on the Fenzi (sp?) courses that a lot of people have liked.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

For agility you NEED classes. If you've never done it before I think in person classes are preferable (from a good trainer). Online classes can be great though. I have loved the Fenzi agility courses thus far and would highly recommend AG110 to anyone interested in agility, novice or not. You will not have access to all the equipment either more than likely. Things like the dog walk, A frame, teeter are EXPENSIVE to buy- like hundreds to thousands a piece. 90% of agility training is not the obstacles but the stuff that happens in between. A novice is just not going to know enough to know what is good and bad. Agility classes will safely and effectively introduce your dog to equipment. True competition agility training is an ongoing and quite involved process. Most people take classes and seminars and also do a lot of training at home. Competition dogs need to also be able to train in multiple rings preferably on multiple equipment sets. It is a lot easier to get a dog to do things at home than at a trial.

I have done nosework both ways. It's easy to teach on your own but a certified instructor could help with NASCW or UKC rules if you plan on trialling. They also are probably better at setting up unique hides that test certain things.

I like classes mostly for the distractions, instructor expertise, and getting feedback. My trainers notice things I never would and I have improved immensely from being in classes. It also provides discipline and structure to training programs and gives you ideas of what to work on at home to supplement the class.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Alla said:


> I was going to take my GSD to obedience classes but now that I'm working on it at home, she's right in between the stages of the classes... She's not really beginner because she knows all the commands and is reliable in the house, but she's not ready for advanced yet either because she's not off-leash-with-distractions reliable.


This is why I did Rally Obedience with my dog when I started. He knew too much for the basic obedience class to be really engaging (and I wasn't interested in competition obedience), but he needed a lot of polishing and reliability improvement. The rally course made it more interesting and goal-oriented. We started on-leash (you can be on-leash for Rally Novice, but have to go off-leash for Rally Advanced and Excellent) and went to off-leash pretty quickly.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't do a lot of of 'beginner' obedience type classes, because they bore me to tears, but you absolutely need classes for agility. It's really easy to get a dog to jump, climb, and run. It's not even TOO hard to get them to weave. 

Getting them to do those things at speed, switching sides with you, doing it from some distance, from the right side of the jump, right end of the tunnel, to find the entrance to the weaves from a variety of angles and approaches (and to always do it with their shoulder on the left) and in an order that *isn't* obvious but constantly changing, is harder. Getting them to do it SAFELY, while following all the rules you might not know about, not becoming distracted by the other dogs, the other people in the ring (judges, ring crew) and in a variety of environments from cow barns to open fields to stadiums? 

You need the classes.

In general, though, I like classes! I like them for the socializing with other dog people, the feed back, the ability to ask questions and get them answered, the exposure for the dogs to other dogs and working, and for the structure of a path to follow from week to week.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Classes are great for getting your dog out and about and learning how to interact in the world. The first obedience class I took with Luke was a basic Level 1 class and he knew all the behaviors that were taught. But it was super hard for him to do them all out in public, in a classroom full of other dogs and people. It provided a more difficult environment for him to practice it all in. I also learned general things like dog behavior and such that I didn't previously know. Now, fast forward about 5 years and I'm teaching for the trainer I took my first classes with, and I still take my own dogs to classes, especially my puppy. My puppy goes to class once a week or so just for working in the class environment. I also attend agility classes at least once a week (as well as occasional private lessons) and take online obedience classes. I love classes!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Classes are valuable because they provide a distracting environment to work your dog. If titles were awarded at home my dog would have all sorts of titles by now, but having to listen and perform complex behaviors in a distracting environment surrounded by other dogs is a whole different thing. Most dogs are not really learning anything new in classes, and the point of classes isn't to teach new things - it's to show you how to do something so you can go home and train it, then come back and practice it with distractions. 

There are also things that are not as easy to learn on your own as they first appear. Agility is actually far more complex than most people imagine and there is a lot more to it than setting up some obstacles in the yard and sending your dog over them. 

I enjoy classes for a couple reasons. One is the proofing around distractions. Two is the social atmosphere, and meeting other people and talking through issues in real time. Third, it keeps me on track with my training. My dog learns the individual exercises at home, not at classes.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

elrohwen said:


> I enjoy classes for a couple reasons. One is the proofing around distractions. Two is the social atmosphere, and meeting other people and talking through issues in real time. Third, it keeps me on track with my training. My dog learns the individual exercises at home, not at classes.


Yes all of these reasons! Dog classes is definitely a socialization thing for me as well as my dogs!


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I love classes!

They're fun for me and Luna. I agree with what everyone is saying about a new environment, distractions, and socializing. I'll also add that I find it really valuable to be able to observe other people with their dogs as well. Maybe they're trying something I hadn't thought of, or I'm struggling with something they found a solution for, and we can help each other out. Also just seeing the different approaches for different dogs in general. (some dogs need loads of encouragement and building up, where other dogs need more strict requirements and generally more engagement from their handler to stay engaged)


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Aside from safety in agility (which I didn't know about, thank you to those who pointed that out!) it seems like all the other benefits of classes can be had just by going to an off leash dog park, especially if you're not interested in competing?

There's the socialization and the distractions and the proofing around new dogs and people and noises... We're working on proofing all the basic commands in dog parks at the moment. 

I dunno, it just seems excessive to pay $200+ for a few weeks of classes just for someone to give me a schedule to adhere to and provide some distractions. 

Am I still looking at it wrong? Lol


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Alla said:


> Aside from safety in agility (which I didn't know about, thank you to those who pointed that out!) it seems like all the other benefits of classes can be had just by going to an off leash dog park, especially if you're not interested in competing?
> 
> There's the socialization and the distractions and the proofing around new dogs and people and noises... We're working on proofing all the basic commands in dog parks at the moment.
> 
> ...


I guess it depends how good of a trainer you are. I know people who do almost all of their training outside of classes, but they know what they're doing and have trained multiple dogs. They also typically have a support network to fall back on when they need help or advice. And these people still typically go to open ring times when they can run through things in a distracting environment (though this is much cheaper than an actual class)

Have you trained a dog before? It can all seem really easy when you're watching videos online, but once you start training you may find you hit a road block and need in person help.

So not saying you can't train stuff at home - you totally can. But you've only had your dog a couple weeks so you might find that classes seem like a better idea once you've worked on things more. Or not, maybe you'll be happy working on things at home and that's fine too.

I'm to the point with my dog where I wasn't getting anything out of most of our classes, so we're only signed up for online classes at the moment. However, there are holes in his training that I don't know how to fix, so I'm pursuing private lessons. There are always things to learn and I think it's great that there are people out there who can teach me those things, whether it's online or in person. If it were that easy to train dogs for sports, everybody would have titles on their dogs, but it's a lot harder than it looks at first glance.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I also know professional trainers and behaviourists who will still take puppies and new dogs to a beginner class just for the experience of other the dogs and feedback. Sometimes a 3rd party can see what you can't see 1st hand. 

It's really up to you, if you want to train just on your own of course you can.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Alla said:


> Aside from safety in agility (which I didn't know about, thank you to those who pointed that out!) it seems like all the other benefits of classes can be had just by going to an off leash dog park, especially if you're not interested in competing?
> 
> There's the socialization and the distractions and the proofing around new dogs and people and noises... We're working on proofing all the basic commands in dog parks at the moment.
> 
> ...


Well, one big difference between an off-leash dog park and a well run training class is the control of the situation. You have no control over the other dogs in an off-leash park, they can run up and bother your dog at any time, try to instigate play or even start a fight. Many (most?) off-leash parks discourage or do not allow food treats and a fair number discourage toys also. With good reason, as treats can be a major cause of fights, but it limits what rewards you can use for training.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

I've never seriously trained a dog before, no. But I have trained multiple horses using clicker training, and they are certainly much harder than dogs to motivate, teach safety to, and require your timing to be impeccable, otherwise off horsie goes to his horsie friends, the lush green grass, and the hay bale. Bye bye trainer.

i wouldn't call myself a good trainer, but I wouldn't say I have zero experience either.

I guess I'm looking for some way to justify the expense other than "it would be fun" lol, because I know it would be fun and that's why I want to do it.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> If it were that easy to train dogs for sports, everybody would have titles on their dogs, but it's a lot harder than it looks at first glance.


This. All of it, actually.

I have trained a lot of dogs for a long time, and to be honest I had no desire to do classes when my biggest concern was a well mannered house pet and off leash reliability for off leash hiking. Those things aren't too challenging, to be honest, and if you find yourself having success with them and have the means to do the distractions and proofing work, sure - stay home, save the money. Just keep in the back of your mind that you might hit an issue that requires some personal involvement and be mentally prepared to take classes or private lessons if that happens.

The sports stuff is a whole different world. It's not just about teaching your dog to do obstacles, it's really not. Safety is a major consideration. There are more ways for a dog to get hurt than you might think which is why correct performance is so important, and homemade equipment makes it MORE dangerous.

But the other thing is just knowing what the heck YOU are doing. If you are EVER going to compete or think you MIGHT compete, you really need the class. The bottom line is there are roughly 2 billion things that aren't apparent from watching youtube videos of agility runs or even agility training videos that will get you disqualified and that you will have to UNteach your dog later. Things like the dog must ALWAYS enter the weave poles with the first pole on its left. Which organizations require you run naked, how many feet from the ring you can have treats/can't have treats, that touching your dog or the equipment on the course will eliminate you, how far apart the weave poles are set, rules relating to broken start line stays, what constitutes training in the ring, how and when to use front, blind, or rear crosses. And a lot of those answers vary by sanctioning body, along with what equipment is on which courses (it is not all the same).

I'm all for home training but agility I would not even TRY to figure out agility on my own. I'm not sure I've figured it out NOW, and I'm coming up on something like 18 months in classes! My dog's got it down. Me? PAH.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Alla said:


> I guess I'm looking for some way to justify the expense other than "it would be fun" lol, because I know it would be fun and that's why I want to do it.


I think the fact that pretty much every person who does dog sports consistently takes classes, or took classes with their first dogs, says a lot. There's clearly something that all of those people are getting out of it. I don't know a single person doing dog sports who didn't take classes (probably a lot of classes) at one point, even if only online classes (which aren't necessarily cheaper than in person classes).

As CptJack said, if you're just interested in teaching manners and having a well behaved pet, I think you can do that on your own without a problem. But if you're interested in sports, I think you'll get a lot out of classes. You don't have to take everything from basic on up either - you can do the basic stuff on your own and then join classes when things get more challenging.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Alla said:


> I've never seriously trained a dog before, no. But I have trained multiple horses using clicker training, and they are certainly much harder than dogs to motivate, teach safety to, and require your timing to be impeccable, otherwise off horsie goes to his horsie friends, the lush green grass, and the hay bale. Bye bye trainer.
> 
> i wouldn't call myself a good trainer, but I wouldn't say I have zero experience either.
> 
> I guess I'm looking for some way to justify the expense other than "it would be fun" lol, because I know it would be fun and that's why I want to do it.


If you can afford it, then "fun" can be a justification all on its own. Its good bonding time with your dog. 

While the basic principles are similar, training horses is different than training dogs. The difference in motivation, the difference between a flight animal and a fight animal (simplified example but you get the gist), physical coordination differences, the types of activities and sports you can work on, etc. Sometimes just having access to a good indoor facility is worth it if the weather is very hot/very cold or your yard is soaking wet and slippery.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

I didn't see the point on paying for classes at first either. Jubel is my first dog, he was two when I got him and his previous owner had taken him to petsmart/petco for basic training. So he knew the basics already, I worked with him myself to teach him some new stuff and refine some of what he already knew. I too thought paying for classes would just be a waste of money. 

Eventually I decided I wanted to try agility with him, something I knew I couldn't do on my own. All the facilities that do agility in my area have a pre-req of basic obedience and petsmart/petco training doesn't count. He already knew all that stuff and in retrospect I probably could have just taken a basic skills type test and skipped the basic obedience class but I figured I'd never taken him to a class so what the hell. Yes he already knew the material with the exception of a "settle" command which he understood in minutes but it was still a fun and helpful class. 

I learned a bit more about proofing skills and upping the difficulty level on some skills. Like stays, he had a pretty damn solid stay if I walked away from him, even if I walked out of site through a door way. But if I circled him he broke his stay to turn and follow me. He didn't actually get up and move but he'd turn himself around instead of staying. So while most of the class was working on the basics of stay the instructor helped me with improving his stay to include not turning around if I went behind him. A good instructor will help find areas you can work on if you've already mastered the basics some others are still working on. 

I didn't really end up getting that into agility myself so we didn't go farther than one beginners agility class but I did catch the bug for taking classes. We took a manners class which ended in a CGC test. Then we discovered nosework and have taken all four foundation classes offered and now attend travel classes almost every weekend. Also gotten into barn hunt which we just dove into without any classes. We are now taking a step back and seeking out training for barn hunt because without the structured class/practice environment that allows me to reward my dog with food finding the rat in barn hunt has no value. 

So I guess for barn hunt I COULD train at home if I was willing and able to own my own rats.... Nosework I can train the foundations myself now that I've taken the classes. And with how expensive the foundation classes are in my area I will self train any future dogs and then have them join the travel classes I take Jubel too.

It all depends on what your final goals are and how skilled/experienced you already are as a trainer on if you REALLY need classes. They are fun and in my opinion taking at least one class is worth it just for the experience of working in a distracting environment. Plus having someone watching you work and able to give feedback.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

I agree with the others. Especially in agility.. the classes (especially beginners) focuses way more on teaching YOU. There is a whole lot more to it than jump over things and play on obstacles. YOU need to have proper foundations so that when you run a course, it is clean and smooth. You would be amazed at how difficult that is to achieve. I've been in classes for over a year. I'm still learning to properly maneuver my dog and myself. I have stuff I use at home to practice too. And.. I've been watching agility competitions and obsessing about it since I was very young. It's not as easy as it looks. So.. yes class is beyond worth it for agility. Agility is great for bonding and a good confidence builder for your dog. 

With basic/advanced obedience it is definitely worth it if you don't know what you are doing, need distraction work, or (like in my case with my dog's reactivity) need to work on a behavioral issue in a controlled environment. Beyond that.. eh. Up to you. 

If you are all about doing things at home but want to do something with your dog look into Trick Dog classes online.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Shell said:


> While the basic principles are similar, training horses is different than training dogs. The difference in motivation, the difference between a flight animal and a fight animal (simplified example but you get the gist), physical coordination differences, the types of activities and sports you can work on, etc. Sometimes just having access to a good indoor facility is worth it if the weather is very hot/very cold or your yard is soaking wet and slippery.


This ^^ very much so. I was training horses professionally (and with a college degree) before I got into doing stuff with my dogs and it's different. Yes, there are basic similarities but 2 very different animals.

I personally find the feedback from instructors very useful. I'm constantly learning new and/or different ways to do things, adapting those different techniques and styles to my own individual dogs. Having someone watch what I'm doing, while I'm doing it and then give feedback instantly is an important part of the learning process for me. 

Also....dog park....not a good place to train. For all the reasons Shell mentioned. Regular park, on-leash, with lots of distractions, sure. Off leash dog park...no. 

That being said, lots of people don't take their dogs to classes and they are fine dogs. I think a lot of it depends on what your goals for you and your dog are and what type of lifestyle you want to have with your dog.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Shell said:


> If you can afford it, then "fun" can be a justification all on its own. Its good bonding time with your dog.


Very much this. When we got Luna I had intended on doing a basic obedience class, but not much more. I -love- doing classes. I love working with my dog, and it has basically become my hobby. I'm only in one class right now and the week feels so empty, haha. I don't do it because she needs the classes as much as I do it as a fun activity to do together.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Running full agility courses usually takes 1-2 years of training. It doesn't seem like it would be that complicated but the pieces are all taught in very small increments all the while focusing on safety and on a dog that enjoys the game. The type of precision you need at the speed its done takes a long time. I had no idea when I first started the sport about what was good and what was bad and how long it took to teach. I am on my third agility dog and I am constantly learning.

Even for people wanting to do agility just for fun, I would go to a good class from a trainer that competes. You will learn a lot about dog training and it is much more fun teaching in a way that sets you and the dog up for success. I have done some bad agility classes, some so-so ones, and some great ones. The good ones are worth their weight in gold. Novices are not going to know how to do agility foundation work. 

Agility has been the best thing I have ever done for my dogs and one of the best things I have done for myself too. Not saying that lightly and it sounds corny but it is true. I have made a lot of very good friends there, grown in tremendous strides as a dog trainer, accomplished things that I wouldn't have otherwise, strengthened my bond and communication with my dogs, gone on many adventures, and just plain had fun.  It won't be for everybody though. But for me it's more than worth it. It is a great sport.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> Very much this. When we got Luna I had intended on doing a basic obedience class, but not much more. I -love- doing classes. I love working with my dog, and it has basically become my hobby. I'm only in one class right now and the week feels so empty, haha. I don't do it because she needs the classes as much as I do it as a fun activity to do together.


Yeah, dog classes are definitely my thing that I do in the evenings. My husband plays intramural sports 1-2 nights a week, and I go to dog classes 1-2 nights a week.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm not looking to compete at the moment.. I mean, if it was free, I would, but its a bit too expensive of a hobby.  But now that you've mentioned it, I'm wondering just what all the people who compete are getting out of classes. Cause my initial thought would be if you are at a level to compete, you should know enough to be able to continue your dog's training at home, but that doesn't appear to be the case. 

So I guess I am only interested at the level of having a good pet. I guess I'm also looking for a justification of the likes "if you don't take classes for reason X, your dog will never be ____", blank being some useful skill like off-leash reliable, able to be called off a cat/squirrel in mid-chase, etc. I mean if I was having serious trouble that wasn't getting better then that would be an excellent justification to take a class lol. But I'm not having such trouble.

Are online classes expensive?

Maybe there will be a level where I plateau in my knowledge and then classes will make more sense. I reached that level with horses where I needed in-person guidance, but was not able to find a trainer in my area to help me. Clicker training with horses isn't very common around here...


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> Agility has been the best thing I have ever done for my dogs and one of the best things I have done for myself too. Not saying that lightly and it sounds corny but it is true. I have made a lot of very good friends there, grown in tremendous strides as a dog trainer, accomplished things that I wouldn't have otherwise, strengthened my bond and communication with my dogs, gone on many adventures, and just plain had fun.  It won't be for everybody though. But for me it's more than worth it. It is a great sport.


Same here.  Not corny at all.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Alla said:


> I'm not looking to compete at the moment.. I mean, if it was free, I would, but its a bit too expensive of a hobby.  But now that you've mentioned it, I'm wondering just what all the people who compete are getting out of classes. Cause my initial thought would be if you are at a level to compete, you should know enough to be able to continue your dog's training at home, but that doesn't appear to be the case.


Yeah, definitely not the case! It's just like riding horses - even the top riders take lessons or seminars or have colleagues watch and critique their riding. People at all levels of dog sports still need ongoing instruction of some sort even if they aren't in lots of classes. And at the beginning, just like riding, you often need someone on the ground showing you how to do things correctly.



> So I guess I am only interested at the level of having a good pet. I guess I'm also looking for a justification of the likes "if you don't take classes for reason X, your dog will never be ____", blank being some useful skill like off-leash reliable, able to be called off a cat/squirrel in mid-chase, etc. I mean if I was having serious trouble that wasn't getting better then that would be an excellent justification to take a class lol. But I'm not having such trouble.


If you're able to train the skills you want to train, then no, classes are not *needed*. It's not like there's anything magical about them you can't do in the real world. I will say that getting the mechanics down on your first dog may prove harder than you think and attending classes helps. Or some dogs are just more difficult than others and a professional can help you figure out what makes that dog tick.



> Are online classes expensive?


I take classes with the Fenzi Academy. It's $65 for an auditing spot, $130 for a level where you can ask questions and participate in the forums, and $260 for a gold spot where you submit videos and interact directly with the instructor. Some classes are great at the auditing level, but for some you won't get much out of it without direct instructor guidance, especially if you are a new trainer. All classes run for 6 weeks.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Alla said:


> I'm not looking to compete at the moment.. I mean, if it was free, I would, but its a bit too expensive of a hobby.  But now that you've mentioned it, I'm wondering just what all the people who compete are getting out of classes. Cause my initial thought would be if you are at a level to compete, you should know enough to be able to continue your dog's training at home, but that doesn't appear to be the case.


Nope, in agility it's definitely not true. Like I said, few people own a full set of equipment so that's one major reason people need classes or ring rentals.

I do know instructors that don't take classes and just train themselves (most do seminars though). I also know instructors that train themselves but still take classes. I know one high level competitor that told me she trains in the back yard 100% but she's had several national champion dogs and a world team dog. So not a novice by far. Almost everyone I know that competes takes classes/seminars either online or in person or both.

It's also fun to have a club and know people and watch teams grow. We all cheer for each other and learn from each other. 

Clubs also host trials so it's nice to be a part of a club that is involved in hosting competitions.

There are different levels in sports too so you may be ready for a novice course but still need a lot of training to get to masters. Agility is a sport that never gets dull. Every course is unique and there is always something to train and improve.



> Are online classes expensive?


Some are, some aren't. Most do working spots that are more expensive then auditor spots that are cheaper.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Alla said:


> So I guess I am only interested at the level of having a good pet. I guess I'm also looking for a justification of the likes "if you don't take classes for reason X, your dog will never be ____", blank being some useful skill like off-leash reliable, able to be called off a cat/squirrel in mid-chase, etc. I mean if I was having serious trouble that wasn't getting better then that would be an excellent justification to take a class lol. But I'm not having such trouble.


Your example isn't the greatest because being reliable off leash has a great deal to do with the dog in question not just the training you do. Some dogs just aren't reliable off leash no matter how much training you put in. Other dogs are just natural orbiters and take very little effort to be off leash reliable.

Personally I haven't put a great deal of work into Jubel being off leash reliable as it isn't that important to me. Though I know that overall he would be a challenge and on some levels always a risk to run off after a critter or scent of a critter. So I just don't bother. I've had a foster dog who was just a natural orbiter with no intention of ever running off, he got off leash time in certain areas. Even proved himself to be reliable when one of the other dogs ran off after a fox, he ran to the tree line, stopped, looked back at me and trotted back to me without a word or gesture from me. He was NOT going to go out of sight of me by choice. My guy has pulled the leash out/off my hand a few times when I wasn't paying attention to go chase a critter. He doesn't really want to "run away" and he's always came back pretty easily in those cases but I'm not trusting him. 

You don't need a class for an off leash reliable dog. You need a dog with the right temperament for it and a lot of long term consistent training building the habit of recalling without thought, plus a solid leave it/ability to recall off prey.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Plus most of the work of the class is done outside of class. So in class you could be shown how to teach the best most solid 'leave it' ever, but if you don't practice it at home your dog wont respond to the cue.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Alla said:


> But now that you've mentioned it, I'm wondering just what all the people who compete are getting out of classes. Cause my initial thought would be if you are at a level to compete, you should know enough to be able to continue your dog's training at home, but that doesn't appear to be the case.


You should never stop learning. Training, techniques and competitions are constantly evolving, so is a good handler. The way I handle one of my dogs is different from the next and the next. When I was training & showing horses I was riding with other trainers as much as possible, having an extra set of eyes and an extra set of experiences to learn from is invaluable. 

I am competing in agility, I take private lessons and classes, my instructor takes lessons and classes, her instructor takes lessons and attends seminars, ect. 

Also the access to equipment thing is big. Being the member of the club I get access to our equipment and floor space, which is way out of my reach financially to do on my own.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I've only taken a couple classes with a former foster dog and while they were very useful in that case, I wasn't impressed in the end with the instructor. However, I could see how classes and structured training could be fun and beneficial with a good trainer and good facility (big enough, right number of dogs per class, good equipment for agility or other sports). 

Using the horse and rider analogy, even very good riders will take classes when entering a new discipline, when working with a new horse, when they have a chance to gain knowledge from someone above their level and just to prevent themselves from unconsciously repeating mistakes or creating bad habits. I got to watch a dressage clinic one time with a world class instructor and some of the students taking the class that day were nationally and internationally ranked riders and I could observe that basically all of them learned something helpful to their riding that day from constructive criticism from the keen eye of the instructor.



> Maybe there will be a level where I plateau in my knowledge and then classes will make more sense. I reached that level with horses where I needed in-person guidance, but was not able to find a trainer in my area to help me. Clicker training with horses isn't very common around here...


One observation is that sometimes it is hard to know when you plateau in your knowledge without an outside observer. Depending on the quality of instructor, you can also gain information on how to finesse what you have already taught and such. 

You could also look into the 1-2 day seminars or the short dog camps which could give you an intro into various activities, meeting different instructors etc to get a taste of what you might like to work more on with your dog. 

I don't know anywhere that clicker training with horses is actually _common_ but it should be easier to find it in the dog training arena


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> Plus most of the work of the class is done outside of class. So in class you could be shown how to teach the best most solid 'leave it' ever, but if you don't practice it at home your dog wont respond to the cue.


Yes, very much this. Classes aren't about training the dog, they are about training you to train the dog. The dog gets trained outside of class.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I have only taken one course (Foundations -- it's a prereq at my training facility if you want to try any dog sports, etc.), but Meeko and I LOVED it. I already knew like 90% of what they were teaching but it was good to have it on a schedule and to have "homework" to force me to get it done. Another plus was that it REALLY helped with my dog's recall. It's still not perfect but they gave me a lot of tips (typically used when teaching dogs flyball) that really sped up Meeko's recall and enthusiasm for the command 

So yeah... I'd say go! As long as the trainer and the classes are good of course ^_^ I looked into several schools but this one was my favorite in terms of philosophy (and because my next-dog breeder runs it lol)


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Instructor quality is the biggest variable in how worth it classes are. Some people are great, knowledgeable and good at teaching. Others are good trainers but poor teachers. Or maybe they are niche trainers who excel at a certain breed/type of dog but fail when trying to teach teams that don't fit that narrow category.

For sports you should look for someone that is/has been trialling and competing a while and that is a good teacher who can teach your dog and adapt to your dog. I have not personally experienced it but I know people that have gone to top tier competitors for classes and seminars and they were next to useless because they only knew how to have success with a very narrow type of dog.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> Instructor quality is the biggest variable in how worth it classes are. Some people are great, knowledgeable and good at teaching. Others are good trainers but poor teachers. Or maybe they are niche trainers who excel at a certain breed/type of dog but fail when trying to teach teams that don't fit that narrow category.
> 
> For sports you should look for someone that is/has been trialling and competing a while and that is a good teacher who can teach your dog and adapt to your dog. I have not personally experienced it but I know people that have gone to top tier competitors for classes and seminars and they were next to useless because they only knew how to have success with a very narrow type of dog.


Yes, 100%. Some trainers just completely don't mesh with your style of training. Other trainers are fine, but maybe can't take you where you need to go for whatever reason. Some are good at manners training and have done some sports, but it's not their specialty. It's definitely worth it to try different facilities and different trainers if you have more than one place in the area.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

My agility instructor has gone to a national level several times, with different dogs. The field we hold practices for trials on is in her (huge) backyard. She owns the equipment that we use *at* the trials. She is the head of our little-ish, club. She still travels to another facility to take classes with her dogs. She has a new puppy right now (about 6 months old?) she is just finishing up puppy classes with. The reality is, she gets the same things out of classes that those of us in novice do. Other sets of eyes, other people's experiences, unfamiliar dogs and settings, different equipment, and a bigger circle of people to play the game with. 

And that's the other thing, honestly. The agility community kind of has to be self-supporting. You're right that it isn't cheap. The money you pay to enter the trials, to take the classes, to take private lessons, etc, feeds back into being what makes trials available for you to take. If entries in the classes, trials, and private lessons fall off to nothing, then there's no one to pay the judges, secure the ring, buy the ribbons, etc. Vendors at the trials, photographers at the trials, etc, all come from participation and financial support. 

It's definitely not cheap, but I don't think it HAS to be crazy expensive. At least not at the start, though finances will limit how far you go. Group classes are cheaper than private lessons. Some clubs (like mine) host practice sessions in the run ups to trials they host, in exchange for volunteer workers at the trial. Others (including mine) will feed you at the trial if you volunteer. Area definitely does matter - in mine I pay 75/7 weeks of group classes that will take you through all the handling and equipment introductions. After that, you kind of have to hop to privates, which are about 20/half hour lesson (and most dogs focusing on just them are only really good for about that half hour, anyway). I pay about 150-200.00, including gas to the locations and the odd fast food meal out on agility 2-3 times a week for 2 dogs. 

Trial entries vary. Ours are 9-15.00 per run, depending on how many runs you're doing and when you register for them (more runs are less per, day of is more with no packages). My upcoming trial, I entered 4 runs, 44.00, done. One after that, I'll probably enter all the runs and end up with more like 120.00 in entry fees, but that's my call and if money is tight it might well be 66. If I ever start trialing with Molly, it'll obviously be more. 

Equipment wise, I don't even know. You don't need much more for practice between things. A tunnel, some jumps, stick in the ground weave poles and you can probably get or make most of that for around the 100.00 mark. A slip leash and crate that can be transported comes into play at some point and lots of outdoor trials you'll really want a chair, and some kind of rain/sun protection you can set up. 

You can absolutely spend a billion times that, you probably can't spend much less than that, but it doesn't have to be INSANE unless you have really high ambitions. 

And, you know, all of that said, I still burn out and go several months a year going "naaaah, I don't wanna." I'm not a social person and sometimes I'd really rather just go tromp off into the woods and play by myself with my dogs.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

> Which organizations require you run naked,


Hehehehe. I know very well that means the dog isn't wearing a collar but the visual it brings up is making me laugh. 

I didn't like classes. I'm not social and they weren't positive so the dogs didn't enjoy them and I was uncomfortable with the methods taught and so it just wasn't fun. But for different people and different dogs under different circumstances. . .could be fun. But definitely make sure the trainer uses/teaches methods you're comfortable with. Before you drop the money.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Even Josefina, who has been EVERYWHERE had to "learn" to behave in a formal class setting.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

My experience with classes? It's for me. All for me. Yes, Cupcake found it stimulating and definitely something fun added to the routine, but I take them for myself. It's something FI and I can do together with the dogs (well, Donut eventually) and it keeps us accountable. I'm horrible with keeping up practice. Cupcake is a keen dog and Donut has a strong drive for food, so that's already in my favor--training just gives me structure and proofing. 

Price point where I go is $150/6 weeks. This facility offers obedience, agility, nosework, therapy dog, etc. And one off tricks classes which are $20-25 I think (those are a lot of fun too, and you can repeat them). What also sold me was that in the attached store they sell books by Patricia McConnell and Sophia Yin, which tells me something about their philosophy. They also don't allow dogs to greet (though it does happen), which is good for reactive dogs and just from a caution standpoint. And they offer Puppy Socialization classes--so I have another safe outlet (though haven't gone to any yet) for Donut to interact with other dogs. 

So yes, it's just plain fun. I advise you do it. But at the end of the day it is recreational and not *needed* to be a "good" dog owner (unless you are just brand new to training and don't learn well by watching kikopup).

EDIT: Starting Dog Manners 3 (aka obedience) with Cupcake tomorrow night and very excited. No new behaviors, just more proofing and refining. Should be great.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Hehehehe. I know very well that means the dog isn't wearing a collar but the visual it brings up is making me laugh.


Man, I've got enough nerves without adding naked PEOPLE into the mix. Also the image will never leave me - or stop making me giggle.

That said, I never liked a single BASIC obedience class I've been too, because both dogs and I were bored, but once you get a little further along you're left with Real Dog People and them? Even as lacking a desire to socialize as I often am, I enjoy them.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Thank you guys for all the thoughts and advice. 

I’ve found a more affordable trainer in the area ($150/6 weeks) with nose work, agility, and obedience classes. Can’t find much about her philosophy on her site, so that’s something we’ll be chatting about with her before I sign up for anything. 

I’m thinking of doing a beginner’s obedience class. You guys have made me realize that its not about the dog, really, but rather training the trainer. Which, I think, being forced to train in front of others and make mistakes in front of others could do wonders for my anxiety issues that are related to making mistakes while training. Kind of a “trial by fire” scenario. When nice techniques don’t work for one thing or another (and I’ve been trying various nice ones for ages) I have a history of putting myself in a situation of facing the problem head on, and while stressful, at least it works. 

So perhaps a class atmosphere is exactly what I need, especially if most of the training -is- supposed to be done outside of class.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

> Which, I think, being forced to train in front of others and make mistakes in front of others could do wonders for my anxiety issues that are related to making mistakes while training.


I have massive anxiety issues, and some of those issues are related to perfectionism and some of them are just 'oh god, people', and some of them are just freaking anxiety. Classes have been a godsend. I mean, yeah, I stressed the heck out a lot but seeing other people with their dogs making mistakes and moving on has helped. So has making my own and the world not ending. At this stage, I just laugh about it. Not something I ever thought I'd manage to do a few years ago.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

CptJack said:


> I have massive anxiety issues, and some of those issues are related to perfectionism and some of them are just 'oh god, people', and some of them are just freaking anxiety. Classes have been a godsend. I mean, yeah, I stressed the heck out a lot but seeing other people with their dogs making mistakes and moving on has helped. So has making my own and the world not ending. At this stage, I just laugh about it. Not something I ever thought I'd manage to do a few years ago.


It helped eh? Great to hear! I've spent a lot of life working on my anxiety issues. I used to have a fear of calling strangers on the phone - I couldn't even order pizza. Dealt with it by getting an outbound telemarketing job where I called people and asked for donations. So classes have helped you with perfectionism, that's awesome to hear


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Alla said:


> It helped eh? Great to hear! I've spent a lot of life working on my anxiety issues. I used to have a fear of calling strangers on the phone - I couldn't even order pizza. Dealt with it by getting an outbound telemarketing job where I called people and asked for donations. So classes have helped you with perfectionism, that's awesome to hear


Yep. My instructor spent a lot of time convincing me to stop micromanaging my dog and to loosen up (gently) too, which also accidentally helped me with the whole thing. At this stage I really don't care what the dog does in class. I still worry about ME screwing up horribly but not so much in relation to the dog's performance. Dog's gonna dog.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Wait, but, isn’t micromanaging your dog’s every head turn and paw movement exactly what you’re supposed to do? I.e. make sure your timing for asks and rewards is spot on, make sure the dog is actually doing what you’re asking, figuring out how/what to change in the moment if what’s supposed to be happening is not happening… Otherwise how to do you train? 

Or am I applying too much horse thinking to dogs...

Although I guess if that kind of mental pressure is driving you into a frenzy, maybe it would be more productive to care a little bit less about every head turn..


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

There's a difference between training and asking for precise behaviors, and completely micromanaging your dog's every movement when it doesn't really matter. Some dogs need more control and management than others at all times, but going into training as a control freak is going to be frustrating for you (general you) and the dog.

There's also a lot to be said for rewarding effort instead of precision. If a dog is trying really hard and his position is off, I will reward for how hard he's trying. If you only reward for perfect behaviors, you can create a dog who is confused, shut down, or overly careful. Not necessarily, some dogs have a lot of drive won't have an issue with that kind of training, but other dogs will start to lose energy and engagement. Once the dog is in the game, you can raise criteria and get more and more precise.

You can always add precision later, but as CptJack said, if you overly control a dog to where he's not thinking and trying hard and is only waiting for you to tell him exactly what to do, you will struggle with sports.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Noooo. I mean you teach them and timing matters and matters more for really precise behaviors, but it's possible to be way too controlling with the dog (depending on the dog) and end up squashing enthusiasm, independent performance, and decision making. I mean, yeah, you say sit you want the dog to sit and reward when it's butt is on the ground or for precise criteria. 

But take it from me, it's possible to be so 'on top of' your dog that the dog's training and performance SUFFERS. You want a dog who is willing to try things, a dog who is confident enough to do things AWAY from you, and a dog who will freely interact with its environment. Too much controlling the dog instead of teaching it and that kind of... goes away and you'll hit all kinds of road blocks.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> There's also a lot to be said for rewarding effort instead of precision. If a dog is trying really hard and his position is off, I will reward for how hard he's trying. If you only reward for perfect behaviors, you can create a dog who is confused, shut down, or overly careful. Not necessarily, some dogs have a lot of drive won't have an issue with that kind of training, but other dogs will start to lose energy and engagement.


Lol not quite what I meant. I meant rewarding the slightest effort in the right direction - slightest muscle movement. I've worked with some horses where I had to reward literally muscle twitches to get them to unfreeze and try things. With animals more open to putting in effort, yes absolutely you reward the effort. If the effort is wrong, change your method of asking and lower criteria for correct response. Then build back up. 

I also meant things like if i'm training stay, I don't want any paws to move. So I'll reward continuously for stationary paws as I move around/away from the dog. The second a paw thinks about moving, I reverse the movement I just did to "block" the paw actually moving, then reward immediately for the paw not moving. Then try again. But I'm always conscious about the first thought of that paw moving, or an ear twitch in the direction of the cat, etc, because its much easier to catch at that stage than when the dog has lost focus, gotten halfway up, and you have to go and physically bring the dog back into original position.

But anyways. lol. I'm derailing my own thread lol.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Yes, in that sense it is about precision and timing, but I wouldn't call that the same thing as controlling the dog. He is controlling his movements and I'm just rewarding something in the right direction. Controlling the dog like CptJack was talking about is completely different.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Yes, in that sense it is about precision and timing, but I wouldn't call that the same thing as controlling the dog. He is controlling his movements and I'm just rewarding something in the right direction. Controlling the dog like CptJack was talking about is completely different.


Yes.

And in particular what I was being taken to ask for were things like not wanting to let my dog's leash go, and not wanting to let her get more than, oh, 4 feet away from me. Ie: I'd try and accompany her on every step of the course, and as a result she wouldn't, you know, RUN/leave me behind. In an agility class. That's a problem. 

I mean it's a problem in agility class, obviously, but it was a global problem I had to work to undo.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

Ohhh I see.  So more general controlling behaviour as opposed to reward timings.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Micromanaging =/= being precise. 

The people I see trying really hard to micromanage tend to fall into nit picking and often forget the fun aspect of training. Can really demotivate a dog imo.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

> The people I see trying really hard to micromanage tend to fall into nit picking and often forget the fun aspect of training. Can really demotivate a dog imo.


Where is the line? Can you give an example? I'm having a hard time grasping the difference...


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

The line varies depending on the dog and the training you're doing of course.

Ohhh it's mostly a general thing I see- people get very caught up on the right performance that they don't reward the enthusiasm and eventually lose the enthusiasm. They get so caught up in doing things right that they squash the dog's drive.

*I* am part of 'they' sometimes but I try not to be.

example: If I have a soft dog that struggles with enthusiasm sometimes it's best to skip a mistake versus go back and correct it. If she runs past a jump and you stop the run to have the dog redo the mistake then you may end up just losing all enthusiasm. 

It really just takes time to learn your specific dog.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Micromanaging is controlling everything your dog does.

Shaping is giving up all control and letting the dog do what it wants and rewarding closer approximations to what you want.

But as I mentioned before, there's a line that's dependent on the dog where you have to learn to reward for enthusiasm even if the behavior isn't precise in order to keep them engaged and working. If you train a behavior and then demand precision every time, and withhold rewards when you don't get it, that can demotivate a lot of dogs. It's a feel and something that isn't really an issue when you start training a behavior (lots of clicks! lots of treats! yay! fun!) vs when you are trying to get ring ready behaviors with longer periods of times without a reward. 

Also with more complex behaviors that are not black and white like sit or down - the dog might be trying very hard to heel but might be slightly out of position. How do you handle that? Do you correct them by helping them get into position? Do you break off and not reward because you think the dog should be able to do better? Do you reward in some way because the dog is more excited to heel than usual even though it's causing forging? The answer is different for different dogs.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Yea, there was a dog in our copy class that was so sensitive that even a no-reward marker just completely defeated his confidence and he would shut down and not want to try anymore. (go on his mat and sit and not respond to cues anymore)

So even if he didn't really do exactly what was being asked, for him it was very important to reward the effort to help him build confidence in himself. And it was -very- easy to throw him off. Once I remember he was supposed to go around a chair, but the way the chair was setup he didn't feel like he had enough room to go around so he stopped halfway and wouldn't try again for a bit.

Edit: For comparison, if my dog felt like she didn't have room to go around a chair, she would just shove the chair out of the way and make room.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> It really just takes time to learn your specific dog.


Yep. 

I squashed all of Kylie's drive and enthusiasm for toys and agility by being too caught up in doing it right. I took a break, built some toy drive, worked on making it fun for her again and came back and she's much better. I still only have about 2 times that I can correct a mistake/ask for a redo with precision before she gets sad, though, so I mostly just... don't? I just set up to work on that thing and give her success separately, and later. 

Molly's different. Molly needs to have some control brought into the game, and I have to ask her to come down to think about what she's doing. Her, I WILL bring back and ask for her to do it again, because usually the problem is that her brain leaked out of her ears in response to super-high enthusiasm/drive/desire/whatever. 

One I have to build up, the other I have to steady down a little. One I'm looking to get LESS controlled and thoughtful and more enthusiastic and happy. The other I'm asking to slow down a bit, think, so I can have ANY control. Kylie demotivates easily. Molly never demotivates, ever, really, but gets so high her brain falls out. Very different dogs.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

For comparison again because maybe it's a good example...

Another dog in our copy class wouldn't complete behaviours all the way, but for her she found it too easy so was trying to see how little she could get away with. For example, for touch she would put her face -reeeeeeally- close to the touch object, but not actually touch it. 

I'm not sure how to explain it, but there was definitely a difference between her and the other male dog who wouldn't do behaviours because he had no confidence and was unsure.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Alla said:


> I've never seriously trained a dog before, no. But I have trained multiple horses using clicker training, and they are certainly much harder than dogs to motivate, teach safety to, and require your timing to be impeccable, otherwise off horsie goes to his horsie friends, the lush green grass, and the hay bale. Bye bye trainer.
> 
> i wouldn't call myself a good trainer, but I wouldn't say I have zero experience either.
> 
> I guess I'm looking for some way to justify the expense other than "it would be fun" lol, because I know it would be fun and that's why I want to do it.


A good class is great. In my experience, it's hard to find a good class, and a class with too many enrolled and a so-so trainer is not worth the time or expense. 
All depends on what you're looking for, what you can do yourself, and what's available in your area.
Note, despite others talk of classes as good for 'proofing', I have yet to find a class that's good for the thing I most need to train . . . recall under distraction. My dogs are fine about coming in class. But give them an interesting animal to chase or a dead fish to roll in and their recall goes out the window.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

sandgrubber said:


> A good class is great. In my experience, it's hard to find a good class, and a class with too many enrolled and a so-so trainer is not worth the time or expense.
> All depends on what you're looking for, what you can do yourself, and what's available in your area.
> Note, despite others talk of classes as good for 'proofing', I have yet to find a class that's good for the thing I most need to train . . . recall under distraction. My dogs are fine about coming in class. But give them an interesting animal to chase or a dead fish to roll in and their recall goes out the window.


We actually have a separate 'distractions' class set offered sometimes. It's been the best. I think it is mostly recallers like games. 

Of course that's not going to proof everything you can encounter in the wilderness but we do proof with toys, other dogs, people, etc. Common things that could distract in agility.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

We do recall with distractions as part of our agility foundations class - and distractions in general play a pretty big role in the classes. Recalling past food, toys, other dogs, dogs going the other way, etc.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> We do recall with distractions as part of our agility foundations class - and distractions in general play a pretty big role in the classes. Recalling past food, toys, other dogs, dogs going the other way, etc.


We did all of this in obedience classes too.

Watson's recall still sucks if there is something else he really really wants to do (chase deer, zoom around the training facility). I've learned that working with you off leash is a completely different skill from just recalling from a stay. We need a class that teaches that!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

And recalling in a class when that's the point is still radically different than taking it off leash and outside. 

I can get a lot of stuff from Molly in a class that I would not trust 'in the wild'. Recall isn't part of it because border collie, but.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

We do it as part of our foundations classes too and it's part of the end of course 'exam'. We still work it weekly in Hank's classes. 

We also have recall workshops and then the distractions class. Distractions class does some crazy things like having dogs do agility with people sitting and laying on the ground, playing with toys, dancing around the ring, etc. It's always quite fun!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I WISH we had distractions classes, but they aren't a thing offered here. Would help a lot, I think, if only with my confidence with Kylie at the trial. Strangers in the ring could make things interesting.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

We did so many stationary distractions. So balls bouncing and electronic toys moving around and making noises, things like that, so Watson is good with that type of thing, but he also knows when he's in a training facility vs the real world, probably because most of our practice of that stuff was at training places. I *hate* working stays in the real world. 

And once he's in motion all bets are off! Though weirdly his best official obedience behavior is the recall. Doing a sit stay and then being called from across the training facility is like his most favorite thing ever, and he has only blown me off once. We even did races where two dogs recalled at the same time and he was the champ (granted we had two BMDs in our class who were unlikely to put up a challenge for the smaller faster dogs)


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

elrohwen said:


> We did all of this in obedience classes too.
> 
> Watson's recall still sucks if there is something else he really really wants to do (chase deer, zoom around the training facility). I've learned that working with you off leash is a completely different skill from just recalling from a stay. We need a class that teaches that!


THIS X 1000!!!

Jubel never had an issue with recalls in classes even pass food distracters and he is absolutely food crazy. He understands recalls, he just doesn't care if he thinks something else is more interesting. He does not get much off leash time unless it's in a fenced in area. When he knows he's "contained" he actually behaves the majority of the time and listens. 

The baseball field in the park near my house is MOSTLY fenced, he knows it isn't fully fenced. If I drop his leash to let him play with my neighbors dogs 8/10 times he runs straight for the dug outs to "escape". He doesn't actually have a goal in mind beyond getting outside the fence and will come back but he WANTS to "escape".... or go find deer poop or acorns to eat off the ground...


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

dagwall said:


> THIS X 1000!!!
> 
> Jubel never had an issue with recalls in classes even pass food distracters and he is absolutely food crazy. He understands recalls, he just doesn't care if he thinks something else is more interesting. He does not get much off leash time unless it's in a fenced in area. When he knows he's "contained" he actually behaves the majority of the time and listens.
> 
> The baseball field in the park near my house is MOSTLY fenced, he knows it isn't fully fenced. If I drop his leash to let him play with my neighbors dogs 8/10 times he runs straight for the dug outs to "escape". He doesn't actually have a goal in mind beyond getting outside the fence and will come back but he WANTS to "escape".... or go find deer poop or acorns to eat off the ground...


That is exactly like Watson. I put up 3ft garden fencing to make an agility area and within 2 seconds of being let off leash he slipped under the fence to run around. So then we got tent stakes and staked it down, and then he was perfectly fine and well behaved because he couldn't get out. Jerk.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

There are a few classes in my area that are held outside in various locations. As in, sometimes the location is different each class and sometimes it is just a class held outside in a park. Depends on the facility/company. Great for urban distraction proofing and also for dogs that need to build confidence around stuff like construction work, traffic noises etc.

I had a laugh at Watson going under the fence because I had a foster dog, a ~70ish lb dog, go under a chain link fence. I mean, how does that even work!? While Chester, who is not reliable for off leash hikes etc, has a strong respect for visual boundaries to the point that he won't go under 4 board horse fencing and won't push over a cardboard box blocking a doorway.


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## St. Quiteria (Mar 23, 2015)

The obedience training class helped me a lot with my first dog (rip). I haven't been back for other classes. I think it'd be a lot of fun, but with five human kids I'm just short on money and time. So instead I just make sure to do good daily walks and I read and watch videos on dog training.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

So as a result of this thread I just signed up for a basic obedience class for 5 weeks on Saturday mornings.  exciting! 

It's outside though, which is kind of bleh, but we'll see how it goes. She said she'll teach me how to teach my dog to play (among other things, of course), which would be awesome!

It should be nice weather on Saturday at least


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

That's great! Let us know how it goes!


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Shell said:


> There are a few classes in my area that are held outside in various locations. As in, sometimes the location is different each class and sometimes it is just a class held outside in a park. Depends on the facility/company. Great for urban distraction proofing and also for dogs that need to build confidence around stuff like construction work, traffic noises etc.
> 
> I had a laugh at Watson going under the fence because I had a foster dog, a ~70ish lb dog, go under a chain link fence. I mean, how does that even work!? While Chester, who is not reliable for off leash hikes etc, has a strong respect for visual boundaries to the point that he won't go under 4 board horse fencing and won't push over a cardboard box blocking a doorway.


Yea, the main facility that we train with has beginner, advanced, and then outdoor life skills (obedience) classes.


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> That's great! Let us know how it goes!


Hahaha and because you guys are good at convincing, I also signed up for a private trial agility class two weeks from now, just to see if we like it.


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## St. Quiteria (Mar 23, 2015)

That's great. Have fun!


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