# Help: Unprepared Puppy Owner



## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

Yeah, I'm "that guy". (Or girl, as it were.)

We got a puppy with no real experience of puppies. We don't really know what we are doing and I'm afraid I am going to have a dog with a host of bad habits if I don't educate myself fast, especially due to her breed/type which is half black lab and half siberian husky.

We got her (Francesca) when she was six weeks old from a neighbor whose dogs had puppies and she is now eight and a half weeks. 

Our situation is that we live on 5 fenced acres in the desert with no close neighbors/dogs. We have three cats and an eight year old Shiba Inu/Shepherd mix of medium size named Jack. We also have four kids ranging from 11 to 2 years old. 

We have a number of problems so far. 

Problem 1: Diarrhea. She has had diarrhea and/or loose stools since we've gotten her. We’ve tried to solve it by:


Taking her to vet and having her checked and dewormed.
Changing her food, first from Puppy Chow to Jack’s food, which is Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover’s Soul (not the puppy variety) to switching them both to Puppy Chow because I couldn’t keep them out of each other’s food. 
I then realized I can’t do the always available food thing like in the past and started mealtimes for both of them (going off internet advice). 
2 days ago gave her rice and hamburger and that firmed up stool. When I gave her rice and Chicken Soup her stools got soft again.
Yesterday bought her Taste of the Wild puppy food and have started giving that to her mixed with rice. We are now out of rice so she’s going on TotW completely as of this evenings feeding. 
It’s possible she’s overeating. I just give her food and take it away after she stops eating...in about 15 minutes. I probably should measure.
Too many changes! I’m going to keep her on TotW and see if she mellows out after a week. If she doesn’t we’ll have to try antibiotics and probiotics. I don’t think she has giardia; Jack had that and it’s not like what he had.
Problem 2: House Training (which involves both sleep and management issues).



After trying some basic house training methods, making pee pads available, leaving doors wide open, and praising like crazy when she went outside, it seemed clear she just didn’t see the difference between inside and outside. 
Not having time to follow her around all day, this means that she spends the day outside with Jack. 
At night she is put in our laundry room with pee pads and a bed, closed off with a baby gate. Obviously this is not helping her figure out how to not go inside! She pees on the pee pads but poops her big wet poops all over the floor, steps in it, and makes a general mess. Out of frustration I would put her outside but then she might get eaten by coyotes and socialization would suffer.
We have a crate but it’s too big and I would need to block it off to make it work for her, but I’m planning on trying that next to my bed at night so I can wake and take her out if she needs to go. She probably will have to do that, right, because she’s still little?
Little kids get attacked when they go outside by puppy “playing”. I’ve tried following them around and squirting her with water while saying “no” when she nips at their dresses and legs and she’s getting better about it, but I’d like to be able to have my kids play outside like they normally would. If/when they want to do this do I crate her? The only other place in my house I can keep her is the laundry room and she hates that of course. She’s very noisy at night or anytime she is in there. 
We are home most of the time but there are times when we have to leave for 2 to 5 hours at a time. As always when I come home the laundry room is full of poop and pee. I’m afraid if I crate her while we are gone she won’t be able “hold it” and she’ll make a mess in her crate too. The diarrhea thing makes me think she wouldn’t be able to go all night without “going”. 
Right now she’s lacking in socializing because she has to be outside all day. How do I manage the house training thing without spending my entire day doing it?
Thanks in advance for your help. Don’t go too hard on me.







Francesca


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## wadeo55 (Feb 19, 2013)

Our crate is really large as well, but it has a partition that you can use to make the place where the dog would go bigger or smaller. I would suggest a smaller crate. I am not sure how the dog will learn to go outside if she can just go at will in the laundry room? In a crate there instinct is to not poop or pee where they sleep.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Well, I would keep looking at that little adorable ball of Baby Dog (I get a warm feeling just looking at her she is so cute)... take a deep breath... and realize.... a Puppy is a Baby, and you will be spending Weeks, yes all of your day potty training and socializing her...
There is alot of info on the Forum around housebreaking (I think there is a sticky on it-
Puppies cant hold it all night , and possibly being removed at age 6 weeks she lost the basic concept of keeping her bed clean (momma dog would have modeled that for the pups)...as well as some early bite inhibition training (the pups teach each other not to bite too hard- so you guys will have to model that for her)...
And her runny poops= that is a huge subject as well, TOTW may not be a good fit for your dog (it wasnt for our they got dieahrea as well) maybe try anther brand... I dont feed Wellness but I have heard it can work well for dogs with stool issues (friends dog has a very sensitive tummy and did great on it )-- they have some all life stages as well as limited ingredient kibbles that would be easier on your dogs tummy, but you want to keep with the rice (we always yogurt for the probiotics) and do your switches gradually..
Good luck, I am sure others on the Forum with chime in with lots of details...


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks BernerMax...at what age should she start to be able to make it through the night? She does keep her bed pretty clean (it's the rest of the floor that's a mess) and Jack is doing a good job in teaching her not to nip. She sees the littles, though, and she knows she can get away more. 

Any information on the temperament/habits of this particular cross would be appreciated too.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

magdelaine said:


> Thanks BernerMax...at what age should she start to be able to make it through the night? She does keep her bed pretty clean (it's the rest of the floor that's a mess) and Jack is doing a good job in teaching her not to nip. She sees the littles, though, and she knows she can get away more.
> 
> Any information on the temperament/habits of this particular cross would be appreciated too.


Its hard to say, large breed dogs can take longer to house train, and if she is having diahrea all bets are off-- no dog can hold it all night if they are having diahrea -- work on that first .... That said, IME our 12-16 week pups only needed to go maybe once a night....Its been a few years though so my memory is rusty...
Those breeds- well both are going to be supermouthy for sure, and only time will tell what parts of the aloof independant Akita, vs the gregarious boisterous people oriented lab -- she inherited (tempraments are pretty opposite actually as you would think since one was bred to guard, dogfight and the other to work closely with their people and desire to please/ retrieve on command-- thats my brief description as I am not a lab or Akita expert!).....Hang in there, maybe put your 2 year old in a baby backpack while you are working with puppy, and provide some big raw marrow bones so she has outlets for those sharp little teeth...


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## Dogdays (Nov 14, 2012)

I think for potty training, you need to realize if you want her to be reliable in the house and not have accidents later, you need to basically follow her around 24/7 so you are actually catching her when she does go in the house. Otherwise she won't make the connection that she is not supposed to go inside...every mistake that you don't catch sets you back a little bit. It sucks and it's exhausting but if you put in the time now, you will be so happy you did! The only time she doesn't need to be watched is basically when she's sleeping...or lying down with a chew toy...all other times she should be watched like a hawk. When my puppy was that age I took him outside to potty every 15 minutes, and believe it or not he'd go almost every time! It's crazy how small their little bladders are when they're so young.

My pup needed a potty break in the middle of the night until he was about 4 or 5 months, and even now at 7 months he'll occasionally whine to go out, does his business, and goes right back to sleep. I've heard of many puppies sleeping through the night much sooner than that though. 

If you want to wake up to zero messes in the morning, you need to block off part of her crate so there is only enough room for her to lay down and turn around. And take her out at night. I know it's hard, but like I said, it's worth it in the long run!


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

It sounds like a lot of this could be helped by scheduling. Scheduling is not my forte! I could schedule "indoor time" I suppose. Maybe after feeding/exercise time. So feed, then exercise, then bring her in for a period of time, then back outside. Does that sound workable? Or do you feed and exercise separately?? *sigh*


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

She won't be able to even notice if she has to go to the bathroom or not until she's about 6 months old. At 8 weeks, she's as baby as babies come. There will be no reliability with house-training. 
Do put a barrier in the crate to make it the right size. She needs to be taken outside every 15-20 minutes. First thing in the morning, after every meal, before and after play time, every 15-20 minutes in general, last thing at night and she may need to go out once during the night. 
Right now, while her stool is like it is, this is likely going to be harder to deal with. I hope you guys are able to get that worked out soon.
When you absolutely cannot watch her, she needs to be in her crate.

For nipping and grabbing, spraying her isn't going to help. You're either going to make her afraid of you and your kids, or she's going to think it's fun and just keep on what she's doing. 
Offer her a toy to play with instead, and if she continues, leave for a few moments. Everyone, including the kids, will need to do this. This stops the fun when she gets too rough. It takes repetition and patience, but she'll get the message after a while. 
But, again, she's as baby as babies come.

Continuing to put her outside will not house train her and it definitely won't help with her socialization.
Because she was taken from her littermates and mother so young, she really needs your older dog right now. There's a lot she'll never know about being a dog unless it's taught to her by another dog.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Adorable pup!

I had a pug pup when my kids were littler. I think they were around 4 and 6 when we had him and even that was a lot to handle. Pups basically just can't be left unsupervised with small kids. They don't know not to nip and the kids don't know how to redirect them. So, it was like having a 2 year old in the mix whenever the three of them were together and I had to stay in the middle of it all to play referee. Kids also make a lot of quick movements and high pitched sounds, which gets puppys all worked up and ready to play...except that the kids aren't really up for being jumped all over and nipped and that is going to happen for quite a while until the pup learns that humans aren't able to handle the kind of play it's littermates enjoyed.

The good news (and bad news, depending on how you look at it) is that a pup only stays a pup so long and they do grow out of a lot of this if you just keep at it. One of the reasons I actually prefer adopting older dogs is that pups do require all day attention. The more time you can spend with them socializing them and helping them learn, the better. Older dogs can be a little more forgiving in that department, but taking on a pup is like having another child. You couldn't have another baby and expect not to have your entire day interrupted with caring for it...same with a pup.

I'd also nix the pee pads. They may be convenient, but I've known too many dogs for whom it only complicated housetraining as they became comfortable with using them.

Good luck and, maybe, think of it as having another 2 year old? If you've got experience with those, then it's likely you've learned a lot of patience and know that a lot of this will fade away as the pup grows and you'll be missing those puppy days!


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

magdelaine said:


> It sounds like a lot of this could be helped by scheduling. Scheduling is not my forte! I could schedule "indoor time" I suppose. Maybe after feeding/exercise time. So feed, then exercise, then bring her in for a period of time, then back outside. Does that sound workable? Or do you feed and exercise separately?? *sigh*


Yes, you need to learn to schedule. Fortunately, we live in the age of smart phones and whatnot, so you can get help with that.

Personally, I have short term memory loss, and I've found that using my ipod calendar and alarm apps is really helpful. You can set alarms with names on your phone and eventually, you'll get on a schedule yourself and not even need it. I have alarms for everything, but I've gotten to the point where I get up to do whatever it is 5 seconds before the alarm goes off.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

HollowHeaven, how do I have them "leave the room" if they are outside? Do I have them go back inside? It may sound strange but on 5 acres we could be just about anywhere...and no where near a room. As far as a room goes, I'm REALLY nervous about leaving her anywhere indoors unattended for even a minute. She manages to pee or poop pretty quickly. 

I also have a big problem with the every 15 minutes outside. I have ADD and I lose track of time (and children, and dogs!) very easily. I'm imagining that I would have to set an alarm and keep it constantly on so it goes off every 15 minutes. Another idea that I saw was that of tying a leash to your belt/belt loop so puppy doesn't get away but still gets to be with you inside. This may be something I can do (with a timer, of course).

paketsmom, thanks...I'm a big fan of adopting older dogs which is why this is the first time in my adult life I've ever had to deal with a puppy. It'll just say it was my husband's idea and leave it at that!  Of course, he IS the one gone at work all day.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

Amaryllis said:


> Yes, you need to learn to schedule. Fortunately, we live in the age of smart phones and whatnot, so you can get help with that.
> 
> Personally, I have short term memory loss, and I've found that using my ipod calendar and alarm apps is really helpful. You can set alarms with names on your phone and eventually, you'll get on a schedule yourself and not even need it. I have alarms for everything, but I've gotten to the point where I get up to do whatever it is 5 seconds before the alarm goes off.


 I think this is what I'm going to have to do...I already use alarms but I think I'm going to have to be more aggressive about it. Thank God for smart phones!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

What a pretty pretty puppy!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

magdelaine said:


> HollowHeaven, how do I have them "leave the room" if they are outside? Do I have them go back inside? It may sound strange but on 5 acres we could be just about anywhere...and no where near a room. As far as a room goes, I'm REALLY nervous about leaving her anywhere indoors unattended for even a minute. She manages to pee or poop pretty quickly.
> 
> I also have a big problem with the every 15 minutes outside. I have ADD and I lose track of time (and children, and dogs!) very easily. I'm imagining that I would have to set an alarm and keep it constantly on so it goes off every 15 minutes. Another idea that I saw was that of tying a leash to your belt/belt loop so puppy doesn't get away but still gets to be with you inside. This may be something I can do (with a timer, of course).
> 
> paketsmom, thanks...I'm a big fan of adopting older dogs which is why this is the first time in my adult life I've ever had to deal with a puppy. It'll just say it was my husband's idea and leave it at that!  Of course, he IS the one gone at work all day.


You can set a kitchen timer for potty trips. As soon as you come in set it for 20min or so. Keeping the pup tethered to you is also a great idea. You really need to be watching the puppy every second unless it's crated, and with a leash she can never get more than a few feet away.

For nipping outside, I would keep a harness on the pup and have a leash ready (or he can drag a leash). If the pup nips, everybody stops moving and stands still like a tree, then attach the leash so you can hold the puppy back from nipping until he calms. If you're indoors, leave the room by stepping over a baby gate - you need to be able to see the puppy, but not give her access to keep nipping you.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

i always tethered my puppies to me so they could never sneak off & use the restroom. in fact just the other night Josefina must've ate something that upset her tummy she had a bout of 'cannon butt' (watery stools LOL) the smell woke me out of a dead sleep but not quick enough to get her outside ... poor girl was so embarrassed & felt so bad about herself i could tell  she NEVER had an accident EVER in the house or her crate because she always told me when she had to go out or i 'just knew', as soon as her nose went to the ground she went outside so i never gave her an oppertunity to go in the house.

& Josefina was an orphan from a shelter enviroment so its not like she was her initial instinct to be neat ... i just think she seemed that way because i never set her up to fail. 

this puppy looks like alab mix of some kind ... labs & lab mixes esp as pups have a reputation for being mouthy little monsters. teach your kids to stop moving imediately when she starts this & do not engage her in any way until she stops the behavior, then treat her & praise her in a calm manner (pups get excited very easily) when she stops. also stop using the spray bottle, often times this only frustrates the puppy & makes biting worse; or at the very least its just another thing for them to play with.

another method is redirecting her nipping on something else like a toy, google "triebbal". this method of redirection is the only thing that worked for me, & I have cattle dogs ... the nipping kings. the other thing that worked is investing in a pair of rubber boots & bitter spray, a few bites on those boots covered in bitter spray & they stop quick ... it also gives you a chance to redirect onto an appropraite toy.

good luck with your pup ... she sure is a cute


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions! We now have some things to work with.

She's Siberian Husky/Black Lab. Do you all have any advice on keeping her away from chickens? We are getting some soon. Huskies have a bad rep with chickens.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

magdelaine said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! We now have some things to work with.
> 
> She's Siberian Husky/Black Lab. Do you all have any advice on keeping her away from chickens? We are getting some soon. Huskies have a bad rep with chickens.


Manage her. Keep the chickens in a fence and keep her on leash.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

elrohwen said:


> Manage her. Keep the chickens in a fence and keep her on leash.


We were planning on letting the chickens free range during the day. Our other dog ignores them completely. Are you saying that this won't be possible?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

magdelaine said:


> We were planning on letting the chickens free range during the day. Our other dog ignores them completely. Are you saying that this won't be possible?


Not saying it won't be possible, but you should plan to manage her as a puppy at least.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

magdelaine said:


> We were planning on letting the chickens free range during the day. Our other dog ignores them completely. Are you saying that this won't be possible?


build a dog proof fenced yard for the chickens off their 'regular' area if you want them to free range, I am thinking about getting chickens in the future & will have to do this because i have four chicken KILLERS.

I would be willing to bet my pay check that she would have a go at them & succeed in killing them or at least learn that chasing them is fun. so i would err on the side of caution & not put them out with each other unless you were out there & your pup was on a leash.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

There's a big difference between an eight year old dog and a young pup, particularly when one of her breeds is known for a high prey drive. Chasing chickens might seem like a wonderful game, particularly if she's bored or not getting enough to do. If that happens, either the chickens or the pup (Roosters can be MEAN) will likely get hurt.

I've never kept chickens and dogs, but I would bet that it would take some training to get a dog to leave free range chickens alone, particularly as they go through that mischievous puppy stage. You wouldn't want the pup to learn at that stage that chasing chickens is great fun and have that behavior reinforced and become even harder to break.

The bottom line of all this is...puppies require supervision, just like small children. They also require training to learn how to behave the way you want them too, again, just like small children. If you wouldn't leave a 2 year old outside with free range chickens alone and expect it all to go well, then you also can't expect it of the pup.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

dogdragoness said:


> build a dog proof fenced yard for the chickens off their 'regular' area if you want them to free range, I am thinking about getting chickens in the future & will have to do this because i have four chicken KILLERS.
> 
> I would be willing to bet my pay check that she would have a go at them & succeed in killing them or at least learn that chasing them is fun. so i would err on the side of caution & not put them out with each other unless you were out there & your pup was on a leash.


I see. The funny thing was that before we got this puppy we were looking at getting a rescue LGB, particularly an Akbash, as a companion and a help for guarding the chickens and possibly other livestock. We lost our chickens to a coyote many months ago and have been rebuilding it, laying construction mesh in the dirt to prevent digging and building a very strong house. I have no doubt that this enclosure will keep her out. BUT the whole idea of getting another dog was to provide extra protection for our critters, not an extra threat. The puppy was an impulse and I'm beginning to think that she won't be a good fit for our family. I'm sure I could find a good family for her, she is such a cutey and has a very nice personality.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

packetsmom said:


> There's a big difference between an eight year old dog and a young pup, particularly when one of her breeds is known for a high prey drive.


I think this is what is important here, that she probably has a high prey drive. I have no problem supervising and training her around birds, but it seems like it would be setting things up for failure to choose a breed that's inclined to eat them rather than protect them. 

I guess we got lucky with our older dog. He kills and eats pigeons but a bit of training with the chickens and he has always let them alone. He's not an outdoor dog at night though, so we missed the coyote entirely.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

magdelaine said:


> I see. The funny thing was that before we got this puppy we were looking at getting a rescue LGB, particularly an Akbash, as a companion and a help for guarding the chickens and possibly other livestock.


Whatever dog you get or keep, it always helps to do some research and be patient for the right dog.



> The Akbash Dog is a primitive guard dog breed, requiring owners who understand canine behavior. The dogs are a combination of submissive posturing to livestock and dominance aggression—to stand up against bears and wolves. They require owners dedicated to constant socialization if kept as companions. They are naturally dog aggressive. In town with sights and sounds everywhere, barrier frustration-aggression is common. This is a serious working breed and is best placed where it can have a job to do. They are opportunists for taking over control so they are *best placed with children over eight years of age*, when the child can participate in submission exercises, with an adult, on the dog.


I don't think this pup is destined to be a chicken killer, but it will need to be trained to know what you want...and what you don't want, like any dog of any age. You'll also need to be patient since it is like a child, with the shorter attention span and such that young things have. Getting an older dog isn't an immediate guarantee that the dog won't have habits that you'll have to break, either and I wouldn't leave a rescue unleashed around other animals until I was sure how it would handle them and I'd trained it to know what I wanted.

Only you know if you have the patience to set this pup up to succeed. I think we all just don't want to see the pup set up to fail. I think, however, with some changes, it wouldn't be impossible to raise her the way you want her. It just would be a lot of work for a while. Dogs grow up pretty quick compared to humans.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

packetsmom said:


> Only you know if you have the patience to set this pup up to succeed. I think we all just don't want to see the pup set up to fail. I think, however, with some changes, it wouldn't be impossible to raise her the way you want her. It just would be a lot of work for a while. Dogs grow up pretty quick compared to humans.


Thanks, great advice! I feel like I have a pretty sharp learning curve ahead of me.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

> HollowHeaven, how do I have them "leave the room" if they are outside? Do I have them go back inside? It may sound strange but on 5 acres we could be just about anywhere...and no where near a room. As far as a room goes, I'm REALLY nervous about leaving her anywhere indoors unattended for even a minute. She manages to pee or poop pretty quickly.
> 
> I also have a big problem with the every 15 minutes outside. I have ADD and I lose track of time (and children, and dogs!) very easily. I'm imagining that I would have to set an alarm and keep it constantly on so it goes off every 15 minutes. Another idea that I saw was that of tying a leash to your belt/belt loop so puppy doesn't get away but still gets to be with you inside. This may be something I can do (with a timer, of course).



Yes, they will have to go back inside. If you're just running around and can't really leave her immediately, the next best thing is to not let her run loose on 5 acres of land. 
You're not supposed to leave her unattended. Not even for a minute. If you absolutely cannot watch her, put her crate. It's like having a baby that's beginning to toddle. You can't leave them alone, they have to go into a playpen or something. This is the exact same thing. Leaving her outside will do nothing to help house train her because all she's learning out there is that she can just use the bathroom any time, any place.

The alarm's will have to happen if you can't remember to take her out. Yes, you can tie the puppy to you. This way you won't lose track of her. 




> She's Siberian Husky/Black Lab. Do you all have any advice on keeping her away from chickens? We are getting some soon. Huskies have a bad rep with chickens.


I'm going to suggest you do a lot of research on Huskies and Labs. Your puppy may be more like a lab, or more like a husky or a good balance of both but it won't hurt to know a lot about both breeds.
Huskies do have a strong preydrive. If mine were to get a chicken, she would maul it and eat it raw in no time flat. 
Start training 'leave it' now. This is will be a great command for later. Build a good strong fence for your chickens. Don't leave her loose with the chickens around. 
Kikopup has lots of videos on it. Here's one.






I'm also going to suggest you start teaching recall as soon as possible. Huskies like to go, and when they go, usually they don't come back.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

check out the other thread on teaching your dog not to kill chickens--- there is a learning curve, be prepared to lose a few chickens(worth it in the long run IMHO, so hens can free range with dogs as protectors)-- someone did it with airedales on Backyardchickens.com and we did it with our giant schnauzer....


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

BernerMax said:


> check out the other thread on teaching your dog not to kill chickens--- there is a learning curve, be prepared to lose a few chickens(worth it in the long run IMHO, so hens can free range with dogs as protectors)-- someone did it with airedales on Backyardchickens.com and we did it with our giant schnauzer....


 Thank you! I'll take a look at that thread. I am starting to see it's possible and we certainly couldn't start any earlier. We should be getting some hens in a month or so. 

I've got a question regarding some of the training videos and advice I've seen/gotten. What do I do when I'm walking and she grabs my legs and chews my pants? I'm supposed to leave but she's hanging on me and I'm in the middle of the yard. I stop and just stand still and at some point she gets bored but she chews pretty good for a minute. Do I say "no"? Shove her away? Stand there? Sorry, it's kind of dumb... I've watched a bunch of videos but you can't learn everything in a night unfortunately. Perhaps I shouldn't walk her without a leash?


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

magdelaine said:


> Thank you! I'll take a look at that thread. I am starting to see it's possible and we certainly couldn't start any earlier. We should be getting some hens in a month or so.
> 
> I've got a question regarding some of the training videos and advice I've seen/gotten. What do I do when I'm walking and she grabs my legs and chews my pants? I'm supposed to leave but she's hanging on me and I'm in the middle of the yard. I stop and just stand still and at some point she gets bored but she chews pretty good for a minute. Do I say "no"? Shove her away? Stand there? Sorry, it's kind of dumb... I've watched a bunch of videos but you can't learn everything in a night unfortunately. Perhaps I shouldn't walk her without a leash?


I have a No-go sound I make when they do something that I dont like (like my Berner just put his muddy paws onto the couch that I am on and I did it)-- I do a guttural UH-OH sound (and then ignore ) and they know that I dont like what ever they just did and know to stop .. They do have to learn this.... Maybe carry a bucket (i know this sounds silly but all in the name of training right) and when she grabs at your leg firmly say your Sound (like my Uh-OH) and get up on the bucket where she cant get at you and stand like a statue.... Does she know SIt yet? An 8wk old pup will easily learn SIT for her food bowl at dinner or treats.... THen give her the SIT command (you want to end on a Positive) and then (presuming she knows SIT and sits) say GOOD DOG and treat, and get off your bucket....

Good luck on the chicken thing we love them and the fresh eggs are Great!!!


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

magdelaine said:


> Do I say "no"? Shove her away? Stand there? Sorry, it's kind of dumb... I've watched a bunch of videos but you can't learn everything in a night unfortunately. Perhaps I shouldn't walk her without a leash?


Definitely don't shove her away. That'll likely make her think you're playing along with the game she's made up.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

Some success! I used a crate with her last night. We had gotten a big one so I had to put some stuff in there to make it the right size for her. She made lots of noise of course, but I did manage to wake up when I heard her moving around in the middle of the night (not crying) and I took her out to go twice. One of those times was for a big poop. No accidents in the crate!

Now this morning I'm trying feeding her in the crate to associate good things with it but she's not having any of it. I've seen lots on gentle introduction to the crate but is it ok if I just go ahead and use the thing? Today it's off to get her a collar and leash and possibly a harness because she likes to pull. I'm also making some "treats" out of boiled chicken. Recommendations welcome.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

If she's not really freaking out in it, yeah sure, just use it. You can still hand her treats through it, give her toys in it and treats, praise her for being in it, little things to reassure that it's a good place to be.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

It sounds like you're off to a better start already! 

I like giving a dog something to work on while they're in the crate, to help them get settled down. Frozen kongs with kibble and peanut butter or yogurt are really good for that.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

Kongs! That's what I wanted to get for her. Couldn't remember what they are called. So would you say feeding her regular meals in the crate is a good idea?


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## PandaSPUR (Mar 5, 2013)

I've read about crate training by feeding daily food using only the kong, and having the kong tied to the inside of the crate.

I dont have a puppy yet though, so I'm just mentioning this to see what others may say, as i'm trying to learn from yours and everyone else's experience lol.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

You can get something like a kong, or even use a large kong to feed her meals in. That makes it take longer for her to get her breakfast, and you can just put her in the crate with the kong or food dispensing toy, and let her go for it.

I really like what Hollow said about thinking about your puppy being a baby learning to toddle....you just can't leave them alone. It's not just that your puppy will get into danger or get hurt (some plants are toxic, also, some foods are toxic - grapes, chocolate, garlic - and if they chew pillows or clothing and swallow it, it can result in internal blockages) but, it's also that you lose very valuable training moments.

Yes, if you leave her outside, you don't have the inside potty accidents. BUT, you also lose the opportunity to teach her what you want her to learn. And, if you are not right there, you can't help redirect when she nips at the kids during play. You have to be there to teach and train her, right there. Because if you don't redirect or correct or interrupt immediately, she won't make the connection you need her to make to learn.

When you praise or redirect a puppy, it has to be within 3-5 seconds. If it's longer than that, they puppy's little brain has moved on. So, when you praise or redirect, the puppy has a tendency to think you're praising/redirecting for what is happening NOW, not what happened 20 seconds ago. If you're not close enough to do that, you've lost that opportunity to reinforce the specific behavior you were trying to reinforce.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

doxiemommy said:


> You can get something like a kong, or even use a large kong to feed her meals in. That makes it take longer for her to get her breakfast, and you can just put her in the crate with the kong or food dispensing toy, and let her go for it.
> 
> I really like what Hollow said about thinking about your puppy being a baby learning to toddle....you just can't leave them alone. It's not just that your puppy will get into danger or get hurt (some plants are toxic, also, some foods are toxic - grapes, chocolate, garlic - and if they chew pillows or clothing and swallow it, it can result in internal blockages) but, it's also that you lose very valuable training moments.
> 
> ...


I have SO much to learn regarding redirecting/praising and not using negative reinforcement/punishment. I can see that particularly given her genetic makeup that I can't wait to do this kind of training. Today should be the last day she will have to spend part of the day outside and in the laundry room alone. I don't have the tools to manage her inside yet (getting those today) and I have to go out of town. We'll be gone for about five to six hours and I can NOT leave her in a crate that long. Looking forward to working with her for real tomorrow. 

So, given that I will be able to go by a PetSmart or other big pet store, any recommendations on necessary tools, treats, or accessories? We live in a town where the only place to buy supplies is Walmart or Kmart so now is our chance to get a few things.

An aside about this process is that Jack is a pretty good dog, but he does have some issues. I think he would really benefit from some obedience training too, and if the puppy is going to learn then so is Jack! My biggest problem with him is being very aggressive with strange vehicles on the property. This isn't a bad thing as it's helpful to know when people are out there, but he won't stop barking and approaching even when we are there. He's mostly nervous, so I call him over and put him inside while I deal with strangers outside. It would be nice if he would settle on command so I wouldn't have to remove him every time. Also, if he got scared enough he could bite and that would be just awful.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

When she grabs your pants just stop & ignore ... Or (if you are one of those ppl who cares about their clothes lol) you can redirect her teeth to something more fun like a soccer ball or other round toy. Or even have a long rope toy to tug with her ... BUT if she touches ANY part of your clothes/skin at ANY time, stop the game & turn your back. when she comes around & bows/barks that is dogish for "I'm sorry lets play some more" you have to accept it every time or she will not learn correctly.


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## gemini6774 (Oct 15, 2012)

I always keep my dog on a leash or in his crate when I'm not able to completely supervise him and the kids. I wouldn't allow the kids alone with him ever. I have a day care so there are 7 kids here every day and even at 1 year old (I've had him since he was 6 months), he's not trustworthy with the kids. He is good for the most part, but after school when i have more kids and the routine is different...the kids are hyper and have tons of energy and he does at this time too. I think he feeds off of it. He gets jumpy and just wants to play, but he's still young and needs to learn that the kids need to be respected and not played with like that.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I'd get a few cheap clickers and at least 2 kongs. I like to have more than one so I can stash a couple in the freezer filled with treats. That way, I'm not always having to prepare one if I need to dash out for a bit. I'd skip all the fancy treats and just go for kibble + peanut butter or kibble + yogurt and I'd also use small pieces of cheese or chicken or whatever your dog goes nuts for for training treats. Some dogs also really enjoy buster/busy cubes or other "game" type treat dispensers that keep them busy and help work off mental energy. Other dogs get frustrated and won't touch them, so I'd probably stick with a few kongs of varying sizes until you know how persistent the pup is. 

I like having a no-pull harness to leash train, but I don't often have a pup, more often a larger rescue. I also like having a nice rope leash that I can tie a knot or two in and is difficult to chew through. Those are just what I like, though.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

dogdragoness said:


> When she grabs your pants just stop & ignore ... Or (if you are one of those ppl who cares about their clothes lol) you can redirect her teeth to something more fun like a soccer ball or other round toy. Or even have a long rope toy to tug with her ... BUT if she touches ANY part of your clothes/skin at ANY time, stop the game & turn your back. when she comes around & bows/barks that is dogish for "I'm sorry lets play some more" you have to accept it every time or she will not learn correctly.


Thanks, this is what I was looking for. I was trying distraction using an "attention noise" (I know what that is now, lol) just a few minutes ago. She would let go, sit and look up at me and I'd praise her like crazy. I was just thinking a fun toy would be perfect for this. It does remind me of when you have a toddler...distraction works so much better than just "no".


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I'll be honest. We have a PetSmart, but I do most of my buying of dog things online and I have found absolutely nothing to be indespensible beyond a crate, a collar, a leash, and a vet. Well, that and a big supply papertowels and laundry detergent when dealing with puppies. Everything else is cake, or I can buy from the grocery store. (BIG jars of PB, and containers of various livers.)



magdelaine said:


> Thanks, this is what I was looking for. I was trying distraction using an "attention noise" (I know what that is now, lol) just a few minutes ago. She would let go, sit and look up at me and I'd praise her like crazy. I was just thinking a fun toy would be perfect for this. It does remind me of when you have a toddler...distraction works so much better than just "no".


You are going to be awesome. And so is she.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

packetsmom said:


> I'd get a few cheap clickers and at least 2 kongs. I like to have more than one so I can stash a couple in the freezer filled with treats. That way, I'm not always having to prepare one if I need to dash out for a bit. I'd skip all the fancy treats and just go for kibble + peanut butter or kibble + yogurt and I'd also use small pieces of cheese or chicken or whatever your dog goes nuts for for training treats. Some dogs also really enjoy buster/busy cubes or other "game" type treat dispensers that keep them busy and help work off mental energy. Other dogs get frustrated and won't touch them, so I'd probably stick with a few kongs of varying sizes until you know how persistent the pup is.
> 
> I like having a no-pull harness to leash train, but I don't often have a pup, more often a larger rescue. I also like having a nice rope leash that I can tie a knot or two in and is difficult to chew through. Those are just what I like, though.


Thanks! do you like to have both a rope leash and a regular leash? And how long a leash should I get? I have a short nylon leash for Jack but it's not like what I'm seeing in the videos.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

magdelaine said:


> Thanks! do you like to have both a rope leash and a regular leash? And how long a leash should I get? I have a short nylon leash for Jack but it's not like what I'm seeing in the videos.


6 foot nylon leash covers it for us. Though a long line (like 100ft horse lung line) is also awesome for some freedom. On the other hand my 'longline' is the clip from a cheap 6ft leash with cotton clothesline tied on. Apparently, I am anti-gimick or something.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about the type of leash at this age. I like rope leashes that are more like a horse lead because I'm more often finding myself leash training a dog that weighs almost as much as me.  For that, I don't even bother with nylon strap leashes for the sake of my hands.

I would probably like a longer leash if you're training recalls. I'm planning on getting a really long leash for training recalls in our fenced yard. Other than that, I like a 6 foot leash for regular walks.

I think everyone has different equipment they like to use and sometimes it's just a matter of finding what works for you. I agree with CptJack, though...you generally don't need a lot of "stuff" to have a good dog. Just like with kids, it's more important that you spend time with them and teach them than if they have all the latest and greatest toys.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

packetsmom said:


> Just like with kids, it's more important that you spend time with them and teach them than if they have all the latest and greatest toys.


And just like with kids when they're growing fast or hard on their toys and stuff - goodwill is awesome. ESPECIALLY for stuffed animals and cheap bedding (like old towels). I am OVER spending 10.00 for a stuffed animal for them to gut in 10minutes. Goodwill and yardsales will net me about 20 toys for that 10.00, thanks  

I do spend money on my dogs, but it's mostly n the form of vet care and high quality food. I also bought them expensive(ish) collars and leashes, but that's not giving the dogs anything particular, you know? They're not more serviceable than the nylon sort. I WILL say, as I've just remembered, that anything that closes with one of those plastic 'quick snaps' does not work for me. I don't trust the things. I want a BUCKLE.


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## magdelaine (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks everyone, very helpful. I love the idea of tying a laundry line to the leash to make a longer lead! That's something hubby would approve of. We don't have a very big budget for stuff so that's why I want to know what I absolutely need. 

And stuffed animals...ahh I've been reluctant to use those because the kid's animals become inevitable victims. Jack loved his stuffed squeakers, but like you say he would gut them in 10 minutes. I might go for a couple of squeakers now for training purposes but I don't imagine they'll last long.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

magdelaine said:


> Thanks everyone, very helpful. I love the idea of tying a laundry line to the leash to make a longer lead! That's something hubby would approve of. We don't have a very big budget for stuff so that's why I want to know what I absolutely need.
> 
> And stuffed animals...ahh I've been reluctant to use those because the kid's animals become inevitable victims. Jack loved his stuffed squeakers, but like you say he would gut them in 10 minutes. I might go for a couple of squeakers now for training purposes but I don't imagine they'll last long.


Kong makes squeaky tennis balls - or you could try the non-plush squeakers. My kids are over stuffed animals, so that thought didn't even enter my head but should have. Also, if you're on a budget I have found the plain, white, boiled and hollowed out bones to be MUCh cheaper than kongs. And they work beautifully well for stuffing with food/pb/whatever and freezing.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Cutie! Awwww!

I am using TOTW as well for Roman and he is 8+ month now. Great dog food BTW and Roman's poop did become smaller (less in amount) and much much nicely formed.

We got him at 11 weeks old.
He is house broken in 2 days (and his early training when he had to go out during Hurricane Sandy was quite traumatic for him I recalled having to go out in that).

Crate training is the absolute best training if you want to housebreak your pup... 

Of course unless it is from a puppy mill or born in a "bad" kennel (some rescues gone wrong, hoarding situation etc.) than all bets are off since the bad habits is ingrained to the pups by their "people" not taking them out (due to time, and more dogs than any human can handle situations) hence letting them form that habit of defecating in the crates. <-Info from many cool books I've read and the scenario makes sense.

There are many great books on pups & dogs... some great ones on "dog temperments" and those are great resources when it comes to "reading" your own dog behaviours (I learn alot from those) and helping in training.

Good luck with your pup!!!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Capt jack is right RELAX ... Everyone has "puppy cold feet" & "buyers/adopters remorse" when they first bring their new friend ESP if its unexpected like your new friend entered your life. 

Josefina is very naughty by nature, if she thinks she can get away with something she will, the reason she seems so well behaved because I manage the crap out of her lol. She is very biddable & listens to commands & the word no but there is always that moment where like when we are taking our jog on the property & she sees the goats/donkeys/horse (who she knows she isn't supposed to chase) where she looks to see if I am paying attention (which I always am) this uses to piss me off ... But now I realize that it's just part of her character


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

> I do spend money on my dogs, but it's mostly n the form of vet care and high quality food. I also bought them expensive(ish) collars and leashes, but that's not giving the dogs anything particular, you know? They're not more serviceable than the nylon sort. I WILL say, as I've just remembered, that anything that closes with one of those plastic 'quick snaps' does not work for me. I don't trust the things. I want a BUCKLE.


Agreed, I don't trust them either unless I REALLY trust the dog 

Also for larger dogs or if you don't want your hands burned (though you can get the cotton webbed ones) you can get a horse lunge line from most tack stores / tractor supply. You can also make one yourself if you want, most home improvement stores in any material you want for cheaper.


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