# Soon-to-be first-time owner



## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

I've wanted a dog for very long now, but was never able to get one. Now the opportunity has suddenly arisen when I least expected it and I haven't had a chance to do much research. I was hoping people could direct me to some good links, either here on these forums or elsewhere, so that I can get a thorough idea of what is going to have to happen. I guess it's best to begin with what my situation is, and what my major concerns are...

First off, I live in a large three-story house across the street from a park. There is no backyard for the dog, and it will definitely not be doing its business inside. Currently, my mother, grandmother, brother, and I live in the house, and we often get visitors.

I am looking for a dog in the range of 1 - 3 years, and already housebroken. My preferred breeds are Huskies, Malamutes, German Shepherds, Labradors, (Golden) Retrievers, and (Border) Collies. There's quite a few shelters and pounds in my area, so I don't think finding a dog will be an issue. However, I would like to know if there is anything in particular I should keep in mind about the breeds I mentioned, or something that may make a particular breed best suited for my situation (Feel free to ask me questions if you need to).

Some breed-related questions I already have in particular:
- I have heard from someone that Huskies and Malamutes have a tendency to run away when not on a leash. Is this true? Additionally, is it cruel to keep a Husky/Malamute in an environment with hot weather, or is it not a problem so long as I have its fur trimmed? It gets very hot and humid here in the summers and I have no AC.
- In my experiences, German Shepherds tend to shed much more heavily then other breeds, and also have much oilier fur. Is this accurate, or just a fluke with the dogs I've known? If this is a breed-specific thing, what kind of grooming does the typical German Shepherd need to keep a clean coat?
- I've read that Border Collies require challenging tasks, not only physically but mentally, on a near-daily basis or they will become restless. What counts as a suitably challenging task? And how often do we need to do some sort of "job" as opposed to just running around the park and playing games?

A more general question I have is about something someone mentioned to me. Namely, that if the dog detects someone else in the household as "alpha" it will be confused as to who is its master. Is this something to be concerned about? I'm sorry if this seems silly to be asking about, but my family has some weird dynamics. It's not something I really want to go into detail about here, but I do need to know if I should be concerned about maintaining my dog's view of me as its owner/master/whatever.

As of now, my biggest concern is my ability to provide a regular schedule for my dog, and to give it the amount of attention it requires... My brother and I were going to share the responsibility, but I'm realizing that's a fantasy. The dog will likely be solely mine, and I have to have to plan for that. The problem is that everyone in my family is either physically unable to walk the dog, or has school/work. My schedule is the most flexible, but there are still some spots throughout the week where I will be unable to personally tend to my dog. If I have a better idea of how often I should be walking my dog, I can try and arrange some help.

If anybody has any questions or advice aside from the things I mentioned, PLEASE feel free to add it in. Again, any and all help is appreciated. Thanks!


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

Husky, mals, BC are NOT for a first time owner. All very high energy, with high training needs.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Check out this site http://animal.discovery.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds.html I did the test and it said that I am best suited for a Standard Poodle, which is okay because I love them (I am also a dog groomer so that is an expense that I no longer have to endure.)

You may want to start out a bit smaller. Larger dogs need more room to run and not having a back yard is a bit of a hindrance. I have a Golden and a lab mix myself and know that you do need a larger yard for even just one of them. So be sure you do your homework, and if you are heck bent on getting a larger dog go for a Lab or a Golden they are easy to train. The only down fall with these two breeds is that they are both highly susceptible to different medical issues, cancer being a MAJOR issue.

Then go online to the http://www.grca.org/ (Golden Retriever Club of America) or http://www.thelabradorclub.com/ (The Labrador Retriever Club of America) you can find rescues from either club. Just check out these sites and see what breed best suits your lifestyle. This is a huge decision and should never be made on a whim, this a living being, just imagine what it must feel like to them having to go from one place to the next over and over.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

zeronightfarm said:


> Husky, mals, BC are NOT for a first time owner. All very high energy, with high training needs.


I have heard this quite a few times now, so it's likely I'll stay away from those breeds as suggested. 



Sarayu14 said:


> You may want to start out a bit smaller. Larger dogs need more room to run and not having a back yard is a bit of a hindrance. I have a Golden and a lab mix myself and know that you do need a larger yard for even just one of them. So be sure you do your homework, and if you are heck bent on getting a larger dog go for a Lab or a Golden they are easy to train. The only down fall with these two breeds is that they are both highly susceptible to different medical issues, cancer being a MAJOR issue.


I am definitely what would be described as "heck bent on getting a larger dog". No offense to anyone but while I don't dislike any dog, I'm not particularly fond of small ones. At any rate, I do live across from a park so even without a backyard, getting exercise isn't an issue so long as someone is actually around. Having someone around is the issue... What I will say is I've wanted a dog for almost my whole life now, and have spent time with plenty of dogs that I didn't own. So this definitely isn't being done on a whim.

Thanks for the info so far people. Is there anyone who can answer by more specific questions and concerns indepth?


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

New York City! My neck of the woods 
What's your current occupation? Realistically, how many hours of undivided attention (walks, training, cuddles, etc) would you say you would be able to give the dog each day?


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Some breed-related questions I already have in particular:
-


> I have heard from someone that Huskies and Malamutes have a tendency to run away when not on a leash. Is this true? Additionally, is it cruel to keep a Husky/Malamute in an environment with hot weather, or is it not a problem so long as I have its fur trimmed? It gets very hot and humid here in the summers and I have no AC.


Yes. they are generally unreliable offleash, as a breed. Heat is a concern but thats not to say it makes owning one in the south completely impossible. The coat actually insulates the dog so you would not want to trim the fur.
-


> In my experiences, German Shepherds tend to shed much more heavily then other breeds, and also have much oilier fur. Is this accurate, or just a fluke with the dogs I've known? If this is a breed-specific thing, what kind of grooming does the typical German Shepherd need to keep a clean coat?


xeph has shepherds and might be able to chime in. Not sure about the oils, but grooming would be similar to most of the larger shedding breeds.
-


> I've read that Border Collies require challenging tasks, not only physically but mentally, on a near-daily basis or they will become restless. What counts as a suitably challenging task? And how often do we need to do some sort of "job" as opposed to just running around the park and playing games?


individual dogs vary in personality and activity level. "near daily" is not accurate- "multiple times a day" is. and yes, running alone would be of little use. they need mental stimulation as well. The amount and intensity varies by dog, but in general think of exercise alone 2-3 hours a day plus an hour or two or training a day.

A more general question I have is about something someone mentioned to


> me. Namely, that if the dog detects someone else in the household as "alpha" it will be confused as to who is its master. Is this something to be concerned about?


No. The dominance theory stuff is bunk, and the dog will "bond" to whoever spends the most time with it- training, feeding, ect. Don't worry about the alpha nonsense.
I'm sorry if this seems silly to be asking about, but my family has some weird dynamics. It's not something I really want to go into detail about here, but I do need to know if I should be concerned about maintaining my dog's view of me as its owner/master/whatever.



> As of now, my biggest concern is my ability to provide a regular schedule for my dog, and to give it the amount of attention it requires...


This is a legitimate concern. Dogs (as you know) arent something you can just turn off. Before you bring a dog home, you need to have a plan in place for every day of the week, PLUS a backup plan if someone is sick or something happens (money set aside for daycare/a dog walker, for example.) Plan first, REALLY plan, and it will be much easier.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Canyx said:


> New York City! My neck of the woods
> What's your current occupation? Realistically, how many hours of undivided attention (walks, training, cuddles, etc) would you say you would be able to give the dog each day?


/ realistically what would your schedule for a typical week look like?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

> First off, I live in a large three-story house across the street from a park. There is no backyard for the dog, and it will definitely not be doing its business inside.


A yard is nice, but not a requirement. As long as the dog is being taken out for substantial exercise and a reasonable amount of times to potty, it shouldn't be an issue.



> I am looking for a dog in the range of 1 - 3 years, and already housebroken.


Awesome :thumbsup: Realize you may have to do some work while the dog settles in, but it'll be much better than a puppy.



> My preferred breeds are Huskies, Malamutes, German Shepherds, Labradors, (Golden) Retrievers, and (Border) Collies. There's quite a few shelters and pounds in my area, so I don't think finding a dog will be an issue. However, I would like to know if there is anything in particular I should keep in mind about the breeds I mentioned, or something that may make a particular breed best suited for my situation


Hair, intelligence, size, energy. They've all got it in common and it should be taken into account.




> I have heard from someone that Huskies and Malamutes have a tendency to run away when not on a leash. Is this true?


Yes. Yes it is. There are people who have been able to trust their huskies (especially) and mals offleash but don't count on it. Huskies, in particular, are extreme escape artists. They will spend their time figuring out every little different way to escape, and they'll try it and try it and try it until they succeed. My girl has chewed through chain link, wood, hard plastic, etc. She can EASILY get clocked at 30 mph and can jump 6feet straight up from a standstill. She pulls out of collars and tries her best with harnesses. She can climb trees and fencing. 




> Additionally, is it cruel to keep a Husky/Malamute in an environment with hot weather, or is it not a problem so long as I have its fur trimmed? It gets very hot and humid here in the summers and I have no AC.


I live in Kentucky and our summers can get up there. You have to realize they're an arctic breed and can overheat but it shouldn't be too much of a concern. PLEASE do not shave or trim a husky/mal if you get one, or a shepherd, or a border collie, or a golden. They NEED their hair. It's not what makes them hot, it actually helps keep them cool. 




> I've read that Border Collies require challenging tasks, not only physically but mentally, on a near-daily basis or they will become restless. What counts as a suitably challenging task? And how often do we need to do some sort of "job" as opposed to just running around the park and playing games?


All of those breeds need it, the BC and the husky especially as they are very intelligent, high energy breeds. All dogs need exercise and mental stimulation, and this can mean everything from daily runs/jogs/walks to training, to tricks, to toys, etc. If it keeps them busy, it's good. A bored dog is a bad dog, a dog that will likely eat your walls and aggravate the crap out of you.



> A more general question I have is about something someone mentioned to me. Namely, that if the dog detects someone else in the household as "alpha" it will be confused as to who is its master. Is this something to be concerned about? I'm sorry if this seems silly to be asking about, but my family has some weird dynamics. It's not something I really want to go into detail about here, but I do need to know if I should be concerned about maintaining my dog's view of me as its owner/master/whatever.


PLEASE do not believe any alpha or dominance stuff you read. It's false and will not do anything to help your dog or your relationship with your dog. 
However, how much time and love you put into your dog, will.



> As of now, my biggest concern is my ability to provide a regular schedule for my dog, and to give it the amount of attention it requires... My brother and I were going to share the responsibility, but I'm realizing that's a fantasy. The dog will likely be solely mine, and I have to have to plan for that. The problem is that everyone in my family is either physically unable to walk the dog, or has school/work. My schedule is the most flexible, but there are still some spots throughout the week where I will be unable to personally tend to my dog. If I have a better idea of how often I should be walking my dog, I can try and arrange some help.


Honestly, if you're not too sure how much time you'll be able to devote, I would instantly rule out mals, huskies, shepherds and border collies. Those are all breeds that need a good amount of exercise, training, grooming and just general attention. I don't know how your family feels about dog hair, but I can tell you those are breeds that are going to leave it lying around. In clumps. in food. in drinks. on clothes. on sheets. You'll live in a snow globe. Lol

I know you said you're not into smaller dogs, but maybe you should consider one depending on how your schedule is and how much time you can devote. Dogs of all breeds, ages, sizes and genders need regular exercise and training, but some more than others. In general (this doesn't apply to all small breeds) smaller dogs require less. Just, less. Less space, less food, less exercise. They're compact and can travel more easily and are just as active and friendly as larger dogs.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

> - I have heard from someone that Huskies and Malamutes have a tendency to run away when not on a leash. Is this true? Additionally, is it cruel to keep a Husky/Malamute in an environment with hot weather, or is it not a problem so long as I have its fur trimmed? It gets very hot and humid here in the summers and I have no AC.


I know that you have decided not to get one of these breeds which is a good choice on your part. What do you mean by keeping the fur "trimmed" please say you don't mean clipped. Clipping the coat of a double coated dog will destroy the coat, it will not grow the same and you run the risk of it never growing back. In my personal opinion, keeping one of these breeds in the city is cruel, I feel that they are one of the breeds that needs to do what they were bred to do ie pulling a sled. You could look into Skijoring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skijoring.



> - In my experiences, German Shepherds tend to shed much more heavily then other breeds, and also have much oilier fur. Is this accurate, or just a fluke with the dogs I've known? If this is a breed-specific thing, what kind of grooming does the typical German Shepherd need to keep a clean coat?


All breeds shed differently, some less some more it all depends on the individual dog; diet can also play a large part in the condition of the coat, a diet lacking in any protein, vitamin, or nutrient can make the dogs fur dull; on the other hand, a diet higher in any protein, vitamin, or nutrient can make the coat shiny, I personally feed a raw diet to my dogs and their coats are very shiny. The oil on the coat could be an indicator that the dog just needs a bath. GSDs are fairly low maintenance, all they really need is a bath when you start to feel a build up of oils on the coat, when you take it to a groomer ask if they do the Furminator treatment. This is a shampoo and conditioner that they will use on the dog in the bath, following the bath they will use a high velocity drier to blast out the fur, after that they will use the Furminator deshedding tool on the dog to get the remainder of the dead coat. It does work, however it can be harsh on the dogs skin, so if you see any redness or an increase in scratching stop the full treatment and just ask them to use the deshedding tool instead. Sorry, I got off topic but I hope this helps.



> - I've read that Border Collies require challenging tasks, not only physically but mentally, on a near-daily basis or they will become restless. What counts as a suitably challenging task? And how often do we need to do some sort of "job" as opposed to just running around the park and playing games?


Again, I know that you are probably not getting one of these but here is some info. I feel that just like Huskies and Mals, Border's need to be on a farm or ranch not in the city. They need continuous mental stimulation or they will destroy the house. With a Border Collie, you can do dog sports like Flyball, instead of listing them off look at this site www.dogsportmagazine.com/. You can also get involved in obedience with them.



> A more general question I have is about something someone mentioned to me. Namely, that if the dog detects someone else in the household as "alpha" it will be confused as to who is its master. Is this something to be concerned about? I'm sorry if this seems silly to be asking about, but my family has some weird dynamics. It's not something I really want to go into detail about here, but I do need to know if I should be concerned about maintaining my dog's view of me as its owner/master/whatever.


This is a great book, you should take a look at _On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals_ By Truid Rugaas.



> As of now, my biggest concern is my ability to provide a regular schedule for my dog, and to give it the amount of attention it requires... My brother and I were going to share the responsibility, but I'm realizing that's a fantasy. The dog will likely be solely mine, and I have to have to plan for that. The problem is that everyone in my family is either physically unable to walk the dog, or has school/work. My schedule is the most flexible, but there are still some spots throughout the week where I will be unable to personally tend to my dog. If I have a better idea of how often I should be walking my dog, I can try and arrange some help.


You could look at taking the dog to a doggie daycare that may be in your community, they will be able to look after the dog and it would be a good place to socialize with other dogs and get rid of some of that pent up energy. You don't have to do the daycare thing every day on days that you choose not to do daycare and you know that you can't work around your schedule get a dog walker this is all up to you in the long run.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Sarayu14 said:


> Again, I know that you are probably not getting one of these but here is some info. I feel that just like Huskies and Mals, Border's need to be on a farm or ranch not in the city. They need continuous mental stimulation or they will destroy the house.


Well, nobody told my husky she should be on a farm, as after only an hour of walking/jogging, she's on the couch working at a bone, just a few minutes from falling asleep.
While my border collie mix is sitting on his mattress, all but snoring.

~~
I want to add to this in that I don't want to give off the impression of 'oh well her dogs get by on just an hour!' because, well, eh. Yes and no. It's been very cold and raining. I'm not into that. Fortunately for me, my dogs aren't into it either. So, we waited until the rain let up, then went until we ran out of road, came back, did a little jogging, and they both got their toys for the night. They settled for it and aren't going berserk. This is how my dogs work. usually they get about 2 hours minimum a day, but, life.
Like CapJack said, dogs are individuals. Don't trust them all to be cookiecutter same, and be prepared for the dogs that lose it without soandso hours of activity.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you to Rescued, Saruya, and HollowedHeaven for all your answers and information! And I'm definitely planning this out before I get the dog, not the other way around.



Canyx said:


> New York City! My neck of the woods
> What's your current occupation? Realistically, how many hours of undivided attention (walks, training, cuddles, etc) would you say you would be able to give the dog each day?





Rescued said:


> / realistically what would your schedule for a typical week look like?


 My schedule is not permanent as I am a student and am bound to whatever weekly class schedule I manage to set up for myself each semester. For now though, my typical weekly schedule goes like this:

Monday: Leave at around 12:30 pm, be back by around 4:00 - 4:30
Tuesday: Leave at around 12:30 pm, be back by around 6:00 - 6:30
Wednesday: Leave at around 12:30 pm, be back by around 4:00 - 4:30
Thursday: Leave the house by 10:00 am, be back by around 10:30 - 11:00 pm
Friday - Sunday: No regular obligations

I have one appointment that would keep me from home for 2 - 3 hours that I have to work into my week somewhere in addition to all that.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

HollowHeaven said:


> Well, nobody told my husky she should be on a farm, as after only an hour of walking/jogging, she's on the couch working at a bone, just a few minutes from falling asleep.
> While my border collie mix is sitting on his mattress, all but snoring.


Seriously. 

Again: Dogs are individuals. Even those high energy dogs have outlets beyond pulling sleds or herding sheep. And what benefit does a dog really get from being on a farm or ranch, anyway? It's like all those 'needs room to roam' ads on craigslist. NO. The dog doesn't need to roam. It needs YOU to exercise it. It also needs you to train it - including high energy breeds learning how to behave in a house.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

On Thurs do you have family that can walk and feed the dog? And are they physically capable of handling a larger, strong breed? Even if it sees a cat or squirrel and tries to bolt after it?
Have you considered a retired Greyhound? Very good dogs for those that keep them inside. Very smart, can keep up if you like to jog, bike, hike. Easy grooming requirements. Just can't ever be off leash, and some may have a strong prey drive, so wouldn't do well with cats, or sometimes small dogs. Great Danes might work as well, because in spite of their size, they are fairly low energy.
How about fostering first for a rescue to see how a dog fits into your schedule? That way, when you are done with school, if you have to move away for a job, you wouldn't have a hard time finding a place to rent. Or worrying if your work schedule doesn't allow time for a pet.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

spotted nikes said:


> On Thurs do you have family that can walk and feed the dog? And are they physically capable of handling a larger, strong breed? Even if it sees a cat or squirrel and tries to bolt after it?
> Have you considered a retired Greyhound? Very good dogs for those that keep them inside. Very smart, can keep up if you like to jog, bike, hike. Easy grooming requirements. Just can't ever be off leash, and some may have a strong prey drive, so wouldn't do well with cats, or sometimes small dogs. Great Danes might work as well, because in spite of their size, they are fairly low energy.
> How about fostering first for a rescue to see how a dog fits into your schedule? That way, when you are done with school, if you have to move away for a job, you wouldn't have a hard time finding a place to rent. Or worrying if your work schedule doesn't allow time for a pet.


My mother isn't home till around the same time I get back, or later. My brother could be home by 3 or 4, but I don't feel comfortable relying on him for much, let alone this. My grandma is physically unable to handle a large dog, especially once winter comes and the sidewalks ice over.

And while it may seem that I want an inside dog, I really have no issues with going out and playing with it, which is what I intend on doing when I have the time. I just need to find someone/place to fill in the holes.

Is fostering something they have everywhere? I was under the impression that where I live, all the dogs were kept in pounds and shelters, and euthanized when they had to go.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

HollowHeaven said:


> Well, nobody told my husky she should be on a farm, as after only an hour of walking/jogging, she's on the couch working at a bone, just a few minutes from falling asleep.
> While my border collie mix is sitting on his mattress, all but snoring.
> 
> ~~
> ...


You are right I did just make a cookie cutter dog; sorry 'bout that . It does all depend on the individual dog. This is where working alongside a breeder can help, they know their puppies the best, and if you are lucky you can get an older pup or even an adult that the breeder needed to re-home because any good breeder will accept any of their dogs back if needed.

Again, I am truly sorry for making an assumption, I have just had some experiences being a groomer with those breeds, but it really does come down to the individual dog and owner.


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

Seizure1990 said:


> Some breed-related questions I already have in particular:
> - I have heard from someone that Huskies and Malamutes have a tendency to run away when not on a leash. Is this true? Additionally, is it cruel to keep a Husky/Malamute in an environment with hot weather, or is it not a problem so long as I have its fur trimmed? It gets very hot and humid here in the summers and I have no AC.
> 
> - I've read that Border Collies require challenging tasks, not only physically but mentally, on a near-daily basis or they will become restless. What counts as a suitably challenging task? And how often do we need to do some sort of "job" as opposed to just running around the park and playing games?


yes yes no off leash. Huskies and Malamutes have high prey drive. I was living with a malamute in hot weather. She likes sunbathing. Also you shouldn't trim of shave an mal or husky.

To add on about the city thing. I live in an apartment with a malamute. We are fine because my husband and me are active people. To tell you the truth malamutes are more calm then Siberians. They are active but like to spend cuddling a lot! I actually don't crate her. She doesn't chew anything up. She rather sleep or chew a bone.



Border collies: The one breed I grew up with. My mom still has one. We would teach a lot of tricks. Running is a big common job. We do a lot of throwing tennis balls. My mom does agility with hers. He also has a doggie backpack, she walks him with that on and hiking. That is his job he looks so proud! This also works for malamutes

Though I agree with the not for first time owner. I have had dogs since I was 2, I am prepared for mals or BCS!


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Seizure1990 said:


> Thank you to Rescued, Saruya, and HollowedHeaven for all your answers and information! And I'm definitely planning this out before I get the dog, not the other way around.
> 
> My schedule is not permanent as I am a student and am bound to whatever weekly class schedule I manage to set up for myself each semester. For now though, my typical weekly schedule goes like this:
> 
> ...


Well you could feed the dog earlier in the morning, I try to feed my girls by 6 am, but choose a time that suites you. Seeing that you are a student, daycare may be out of the question, it can be expensive you could look into hiring a dog walker but they could be a bit expensive as well. You actually may have to board your dog for that one night.

I have found some daycare sites that you may want to look at when you get the chance.
http://www.thewaggingtail.com On the left hand side of the page click the "Services" link and then click the "Price List" link. Phone: 212-285-4900

http://www.dogspa.com on the left hand side of the page click the "dog daycare" link it will give you the prices. 32 West 25th Street, New York, NY 10010 (between 6th Ave & Broadway) Telephone: 212-243-1199  or 415 East 91st Street, New York, NY 10128 (between 1st and York Avenues) Telephone: 212-410-1755

http://www.cheekydog.net here is the phone number 718-222-9270

There are more, just Google "Dog Daycares In NYC"


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

NYC!!! Lordy! I couldnt imagine how having a dog would go in az city like NY, being from Nowhere Texas where the nearest remortly large town is 40 min away LOL. I would definately look into an older rescue or shelter dog, most are al ready housetrained the majority just need a couch to hold ddown & someone to love .

I wouldnt go into it looking for [insert] breed, i would be more focused on which individual dog best fits your lifestyle & personality. talk with the shelter or rescue staff, tell them what your dday to day life is like & what you are looking for in a dog & they should be able to help you.


good luck! we look forward to lotsa pix of your new friend


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

malamutelove said:


> He also has a doggie backpack, she walks him with that on and hiking. That is his job he looks so proud! This also works for malamutes.


Works for huskies too, and BC mixes ;D
As far as backpacks go, when it comes to Aleu, having one on her seemed to help keep her chill and she's very sturdy when she moves.
For Diesel, I dunno, he seems just really, pleased with himself I guess when he carries a backpack. I've never really taught him anything with it besides tolerance of it, but it truly seems like he feels very important with the backpack on.

This is something you can do with almost any dog is have them carry a backpack on hikes or walks. That can be their 'job' if you feel like they really must have one.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I vote for adopting a 3- 5 yo Lab or Lab mix from a Lab Rescue. Rescues may match a dog to your needs. A Lab is forgiving of new-owner mistakes, and will sleep most of the day when you're gone, with a bit of training, and a 30 min. walk, as well as some Kongs and hard rubber bones to chew. Thursday, you'll need some help in the afternoon, and maybe Tuesday... You don't want to force a dog to wait 12 hours to go potty. ^ hours may be OK, but it'll help with consistency if someone walks, potty, feeds the dog at 4:30 on Tuesday...


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> Is fostering something they have everywhere? I was under the impression that where I live, all the dogs were kept in pounds and shelters, and euthanized when they had to go.


The intent of groups that organize fostering is to get those dogs out of the shelters, keep them healthy (kennel cough and skin diseases and such are common in close quarters in shelters), provide training and care (keeps them sane) and promote them to adoption which reduces the euthanasia rate and frees up space in the shelter for incoming dogs. 

There are a number of foster programs in a city like NYC. Some are breed specific and "pull" specific dogs from the shelters while others partner with a single shelter and take as many dogs as they can. Others focus on older dogs or blind dogs or deaf dogs or whatever sub-group. My rescue focuses on bully breeds and particularly abuse and neglect cases so we get dogs not just from the city shelter but also from police confiscates, fighting ring busts, abandoned in the woods, or just wandering the streets types. 

Here's a resource to start you off
Foster Dogs NYC
You can also find a lot of rescue groups on Facebook.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

yep just google any breed you want to know more about like "[insert breed name here] information" or "[insert breed name] rescue" even if they arent in your area, you are just looking for info, rescue pages are great places to find info on the breeds you might be interested in because they are uaually really good at explaining the "bad dog talk" as well as the good points of [insert name] breed.

Also, here are some generic rescue sites: www.petfinder.com & www.adoptapet.com


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Sarayu14 said:


> Well you could feed the dog earlier in the morning, I try to feed my girls by 6 am, but choose a time that suites you. Seeing that you are a student, daycare may be out of the question, it can be expensive you could look into hiring a dog walker but they could be a bit expensive as well. You actually may have to board your dog for that one night.


Cost is definitely the main concern here, but I will have to do some price checking because I'm not sure if I have another choice. There are tons of dog-related business in my area, but I'm worried they cater to the yuppies and displaced Manhattanites, with prices to match.



dogdragoness said:


> NYC!!! Lordy! I couldnt imagine how having a dog would go in az city like NY, being from Nowhere Texas where the nearest remortly large town is 40 min away LOL. I would definately look into an older rescue or shelter dog, most are al ready housetrained the majority just need a couch to hold ddown & someone to love .
> 
> I wouldnt go into it looking for [insert] breed, i would be more focused on which individual dog best fits your lifestyle & personality. talk with the shelter or rescue staff, tell them what your dday to day life is like & what you are looking for in a dog & they should be able to help you.
> 
> ...


I'm not looking for any one particular breed, but there is a set of breeds I prefer, as I said. Having said that, I'm not going to leave the shelter with a dog that doesn't suit my life style. I'm very much aware personality is very important.



hanksimon said:


> I vote for adopting a 3- 5 yo Lab or Lab mix from a Lab Rescue. Rescues may match a dog to your needs. A Lab is forgiving of new-owner mistakes, and will sleep most of the day when you're gone, with a bit of training, and a 30 min. walk, as well as some Kongs and hard rubber bones to chew.


As I was thinking about all this, I definitely realized that a Labrador would be a good possible match. What about Golden Retrievers? Are they much the same in that respect?



hanksimon said:


> Thursday, you'll need some help in the afternoon, and maybe Tuesday... You don't want to force a dog to wait 12 hours to go potty. ^ hours may be OK, but it'll help with consistency if someone walks, potty, feeds the dog at 4:30 on Tuesday...


Yes, I knew from the get-go I would need help on Thursdays, but I will need help on Tuesdays too? Thanks for clearing that up for me.



Shell said:


> *snip*


Thanks for all the info, and I will do a bit of reading, but I think I would rather just get a dog of my own and have that be that. Your help is appreciated though.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Seizure1990 said:


> Thanks for all the info, and I will do a bit of reading, but I think I would rather just get a dog of my own and have that be that. Your help is appreciated though.


Foster programs are a GREAT source for getting that dog of your own! Since the dogs are in homes, often with other dogs or cats or kids etc, the foster home can provide tons of good information and help match the dogs to the person. So for all those dogs that don't follow their breeds "typical" energy level or personality, the individual dog can be judged. You'll generally have a LOT more info on a dog that has been fostered for a few weeks or more than one that has been in a shelter for 2 days with no background. Dogs also tend to change personality a bit for the first 2-3 months out of a shelter situation: a very anxious dog may calm a lot, a very shut-down dog may turn into a ball of energy.

Shelter dogs are great but it does take a little bit of a practiced eye to judge a dog's personality within the shelter situation. The more staff and volunteers a shelter has, the more they can probably help you, but some of the busy urban shelters can tell you little more than if a dog is male or female and that it has been vaccinated. 

A good rescue, if they have enough volunteers to do so, also often gives follow-up support in things like recommending trainers, connecting you with a good vet, and maybe even having social events for the dogs (like group walks). Some simply don't have the manpower for this though.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Sorry, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were suggesting I volunteer to foster dogs my self. But this is definitely another route I will be looking at, thanks for the info!


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Hey guys, so a lot sooner then I expected but I got the dog! He's a 2 year old "lab mix" but he looks mostly lab to me. However, three people so far today, morning, evening, and night have told me he has some pit in him.  What do you guys think?

Headshot: http://i.imgur.com/oADkM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gdDy4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8goJd.jpg

I don't have any full-body shots. He's still quite excited about his new home and has yet to calm down for any amount of time save when he's laying down. Also, excuse the atrocious lighting.

I also have a bunch of questions, so I'm just gonna rapid-fire these as they come to me:
- As the photos sort of show, he has bald patches on his legs. The people at the adoption event said that it is probably just from laying in the kennels so long. Is that common? Will it likely grow back?
- He's had on-off diarrhea since I got him, and it's always light-tan-colored and a weird texture, not at all solid like the ones I occasionally see laying around from irresponsible owners. I've read this is common with new dogs, but how long should it last? I'm planning on taking him to a vet for a basic checkup asap but that may be a few days.
- When I leave him alone in my room, he scratches at the door (real problem, we have nice woodwork) and whines loudly. I'm hoping this is just a phase until he gets used to his new home and learns that I'll be returning, but how should I handle this behavior if it persists? For now, I'm using the kong.
- So far, he's been going to the bathroom every time we go out for a walk. Today, he went out a total of *five* times. I specifically got a 2 yo dog so that I could reasonably fit him into my schedule/life, whileas I knew a puppy I could not. On one hand, he seems extremely well house-broken, but on the other hand, I'm afraid I'm setting him up for a habit I can't sustain, while on the third hand (foot?) I'm worried that If I don't walk him, he'll go regardless, but in the house. I know he wants to go out bad when he slips downstairs when I'm leaving my room and refuses to come up away from the front door, but I'm not sure if that's for bathroom, or just because he needs exercise. Nor am I sure how to separate the two.
- At the adoption even, the volunteers told me to feed him once in the day, around noon, but when I brought him to the pet supply store for food, the guy remarked he was very skinny. On top of that, my grandmother says when she had a dog, they fed him twice, once in the morning and once in the evening. And once again on top of all that, if I feed my dog early in the day, he starts going crazy by evening, looking at his bowl and letting me know he's hungry. What is the right move here?

I'm sure I'm forgetting some but those are the most important ones I think. I know most of these should be asked of an actual veterinarian but I'm hoping to get some basic advice until I can bring him in this week.

Thanks again for the help everyone!


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Labs usually LOVE to eat. I'd feed either once or twice a day. Once a day is fine if he gets some treats and stuff about 12 hrs after he gets his meal. Going 24 hrs with nothing at all in between can make a dog start throwing up bile.I'd try twice a day, personally.
Definitely get a vet check. I'd bring a fecal sample, and have bloodwork done, just to rule out any problems and give you a normal baseline for the future.

If he is having soft stools (which can happen with stress) take him out as often as he needs to go. But take him to where you want him to potty, and tell him "go potty" or whatever word you want to train him to. If he doesn't go in 5 min, bring him back inside and try again in a half hr or so. Do walk him for about 45 min briskly, twice a day. Buy some pure canned pumpkin and add a couple of heaping tablespoons of it to his food to stop the diarrhea. Labs are fairly high energy. Plus, he is probably stressed from the new environment, and exercise reduces stress/anxiety. It might also help with the scratching at the door/whining. 

Bald spots on elbows are elbow calluses. Common in larger dogs. May diminish with a soft place to lay.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Seizure1990 said:


> Hey guys, so a lot sooner then I expected but I got the dog! He's a 2 year old "lab mix" but he looks mostly lab to me. However, three people so far today, morning, evening, and night have told me he has some pit in him.  What do you guys think?
> 
> Headshot: http://i.imgur.com/oADkM.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/gdDy4.jpg
> ...


He looks a lot like my lab mix. Yes I do think that he may have pit bull in him.

I also have a bunch of questions, so I'm just gonna rapid-fire these as they come to me:



> - As the photos sort of show, he has bald patches on his legs. The people at the adoption event said that it is probably just from laying in the kennels so long. Is that common? Will it likely grow back?


The hair may or may not grow back, this is pretty common in dogs that lay on cement or concrete. My lab mix has them too.



> - He's had on-off diarrhea since I got him, and it's always light-tan-colored and a weird texture, not at all solid like the ones I occasionally see laying around from irresponsible owners. I've read this is common with new dogs, but how long should it last? I'm planning on taking him to a vet for a basic checkup asap but that may be a few days.


The diarrhea could be anything from stress to food. What are you feeding him?



> - When I leave him alone in my room, he scratches at the door (real problem, we have nice woodwork) and whines loudly. I'm hoping this is just a phase until he gets used to his new home and learns that I'll be returning, but how should I handle this behavior if it persists? For now, I'm using the Kong.


You may want to start crate training him, he will be more comfortable and he will also feel safe, dogs are after all den animals. You can start by using treats and just toss them in the crate and he may follow, then just close the door (don't latch it) and have him in the crate until he calms down invite him out and shower him with praise. Next step is to latch the door and leave the room, he will whine, but when he calms down go back and let him out; make him sit and wait until you invite him out of the crate, then increase the time that you are away from the crate and he will learn that it is not a bad place to be. NEVER use the crate as a punishment, if you do he will hate the crate and be afraid of it.



> - So far, he's been going to the bathroom every time we go out for a walk. Today, he went out a total of *five* times. I specifically got a 2 yo dog so that I could reasonably fit him into my schedule/life, whileas I knew a puppy I could not. On one hand, he seems extremely well house-broken, but on the other hand, I'm afraid I'm setting him up for a habit I can't sustain, while on the third hand (foot?) I'm worried that If I don't walk him, he'll go regardless, but in the house. I know he wants to go out bad when he slips downstairs when I'm leaving my room and refuses to come up away from the front door, but I'm not sure if that's for bathroom, or just because he needs exercise. Nor am I sure how to separate the two.


When he goes to the door and whines or paws the door then reward him and take him out. You shouldn't have to take him out every 20 minutes.



> - At the adoption even, the volunteers told me to feed him once in the day, around noon, but when I brought him to the pet supply store for food, the guy remarked he was very skinny. On top of that, my grandmother says when she had a dog, they fed him twice, once in the morning and once in the evening. And once again on top of all that, if I feed my dog early in the day, he starts going crazy by evening, looking at his bowl and letting me know he's hungry. What is the right move here?


I would listen to the guy at the pet supply store, you should feed him twice a day to avoid the chance of Bloat and Gastric Torsion. Check out these sites for more info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastric_dilatation_volvulus

http://www.eclipse.net/~bobaloo/bloat.htm

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/bloat.html


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Great looking dog! I'm jealous of black Labs, b/c they can have amazingly beautiful shiny coats. BTW, I don't have facts, but he looks subdued... I think his personality and enthusiasm will improve in the next few weeks as he gets used to a stable and consistent schedule. 

Regardless of his breed - Lab or Lab/Pit (I can't tell, could be pure Lab?), He NEEDS some chew toys - a Kong and a hard rubber bone at first. If you don't provide them, he will...

You can still teach him bite inhibition - see the Sticky: The Bite Stops Here in the new owner section... this training will help him control how he plays with people.

Start introducing him to lots of people, places, experiences, and other animals .. so that you can get a feeling for issues to watch. Also, if you can find another dog with similar energy for a playdate once a week, it will help to calm him. 

1. Bald spots are common, not an issue - ask the Vet about the hair growing back.
2. Diarrhea is due to anxiety, change, and food changes. If you don't use the Rescue food, then try to transition to your food over a week or two. If you don't, then assume the diarrhea will last about 1 - 2 weeks, as his system adjusts to your food. You might hold off on treats, except for training, for a few weeks to give his stomach some time.
3. Don't feed him Any people food, don't feed him from the table, nor when you are eating. If someone in the house weakens - even once - the dog will beg, and can get obnoxiously insistent.... this is important. 
4. Scratching - I agree with the crate. It's the simplest method. But consider - he's been in and out of his home, has no stability, and is anxious. He's scared and lonely, so he whines. You can try a little simple training: Ask him to lie Down, leave the room, then return immediately, maybe give him a peice of kibble. Repeat this for 10 min. ... doubling the time that you are gone, returning before he gets anxious and scratches or whines. Try this twice a day... But don't push beyond his tolerance.
5. Scratching - you can also get baby gates to block the door. What happens if you use a baby gates, and leave the door open so he can see out?
6. He needs at least a 30 min walk per day, two is better... He looks like you could run him with a little conditioning. When you feed him regularly, his bathroom schedule will improve, but his diarrhea will have to clear up ... Give him a couple of weeks to settle in... Thing are very new and strange. ... Plan for a few accidents.
7. Dogs, especially Labs, are eating machines. They want to eat all the time. I used to feed mine at night after work, once a day, their system adjusts quickly. When my dog was 7 - 8, I started feeding him twice a day. Feed your dog at the same time everyday and he will adjust. I suggest that you feed him at 6 pm everyday. If you can't get help on Thursday, then feed him half in the morning and half at 10 on Thursday, only.
8. You do have to walk him when you get back at 10 pm on Thursday... just make that plan now.
9. You might walk him every morning for 30 min. before you shower ... at 8 or 9am (or earlier, if you like. And schedule a 15 min. potty walk for an hour before you leave around Noon. He'll learn your schedule and adapt.
10. You will get additional opinions from the Vet. Ask the Vet for his best guess about breed, (don't prompt - ask with no suggestion and stop). Don't buy food from the Vet.
Get the basic check-up ($100 - $500), supply any medical records that you have, expect heartworm meds to cost $100 - $200 (you can buy it cheaper online or from Costco... but for this first trip, go through the Vet). Ask about brushing teeth and clipping nails, and brushing his coat. Ask about the inside of the dogs ears. Ask the Vet to show you how to determine if the dog is too fat or too skinny, by feeling his ribs. The first trip is always expensive.

Also, when you schedule the check-up, ask about feeding the dog before the check-up. Some blood tests work better on an empty stomach. Get the Vet's card, phone number, email.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

5X/day doesn't seem excessive for bathroom trips, but at the same time, he may be going because you're taking him out. "I'm here, might as well go!"

I'd recommend finding some basic obedience classes in your area. I was skeptical at first about puppy classes because I'd already taught my pup basic commands, but our trainer was great (we're on 3rd lvl classes now) and I learned so much more about dealing with my dog than just teaching him how to sit!!


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

spotted nikes said:


> *snip*


Thanks for all the info! I would love to find him a playmate, but right now, I don't want to even take him off his leash. He seems well trained, and not at all the sort of dog that would just run away and not come back, but... I'd rather play safe.



Sarayu14 said:


> The diarrhea could be anything from stress to food. What are you feeding him?


I was recommended Inova dog food, which is what I got. Large-adult kind (has a picture of a GSD on it).



Sarayu14 said:


> *crate stuff*


I was very much expecting to get him a crate, but aside from the door scratching I mentioned, he actually seems very well house broken. From what I can tell, he doesn't even scratch that long, and eventually goes to his spot to lie down.

The biggest issue right now is that I can't personally afford one (The rest of the family is handling financial expenses while I am the primarily responsible for all the physical responsibilities. And both my mother and grandma have decided that given how well trained he is, they don't need to/want to spend money on a crate. I have to admit, they are absurdly expensive. If i do the experiences you described for crate training, but used my room as the crate instead, would it work the same way? Or is it important to have a substantially smaller space?

And thanks for the other info in general!



hanksimon said:


> Great looking dog! I'm jealous of black Labs, b/c they can have amazingly beautiful shiny coats. BTW, I don't have facts, but he looks subdued... I think his personality and enthusiasm will improve in the next few weeks as he gets used to a stable and consistent schedule.
> 
> Regardless of his breed - Lab or Lab/Pit (I can't tell, could be pure Lab?), He NEEDS some chew toys - a Kong and a hard rubber bone at first. If you don't provide them, he will...
> 
> ...


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Check Craigslist for crates. People sell them all the time for way less than they cost at the store. 



Seizure1990 said:


> I hope to get the time and money together for official classes asap. Right now though, I'm trying to get as much training info as I can so that I can manage the basics myself. I want a well-behaved dog first, a dog that knows fun and interesting tricks later.


That sounds like me before I went to his first class. I could manage the basics fine, but the class taught more about canine behavior, good manners, canine/human relationships, and having your dog assimilate to living in a human world than I would have gotten from just teaching him basic training skills at home. Basically, it trained me so I could work with my dog effectively.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Hambonez said:


> Check Craigslist for crates. People sell them all the time for way less than they cost at the store.
> 
> That sounds like me before I went to his first class. I could manage the basics fine, but the class taught more about canine behavior, good manners, canine/human relationships, and having your dog assimilate to living in a human world than I would have gotten from just teaching him basic training skills at home. Basically, it trained me so I could work with my dog effectively.


 I've definitely heard that those classes are more for the human then the dog.  However... money is money. >_< I'm hoping that after Maxi has adjusted to his new home, and after my family gets more comfortable with him and accepts him as a permanent part of our family (not that they don't adore him already), people will be more willing to throw a bit of cash my way for the sake of a healthier, cleaner, better-behaved dog.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Seizure1990 said:


> I've definitely heard that those classes are more for the human then the dog.  However... money is money. >_< I'm hoping that after Maxi has adjusted to his new home, and after my family gets more comfortable with him and accepts him as a permanent part of our family (not that they don't adore him already), people will be more willing to throw a bit of cash my way for the sake of a healthier, cleaner, better-behaved dog.


Are you sure you didn't jump into pet ownership a little too soon? It sounds like you don't work, and are relying on family for funds, and they aren't 100% supportive since they don't want to pay for training/crates etc, and your comment that if the dog had accidents you'd have to get rid of the dog...


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I imagine that there are free classes in NYC, maybe even through the University, Pound, or Humane Society.

To protect the wood, you might find a babygate that needs some repair in the trash or thriftstore .

You can try playing with him, teasing him, with one of the tougher chew toys and play Tug, then let him start chewing on it. Chewing provides stress relief, so dogs look for a certain taste and feel, which is unique to the individual dog. 

Millions of dogs know the difference between the Friday schedule and the Saturday schedule. They are VERY good at learning patterns, so you can set a schedule now, and change it again in a few weeks, if needed. The point is to establish a routine for a few weeks, maintain some consistency, and he will adapt. And, if you notice nervousness or accidents, ask yourself if you deviated from the schedule... where the schedule is whatever you set it to be. EXtra time, additional training, and additional walks won't hurt, the main point is for him to learn when you are home and when you leave and return.

It was over 100 degrees this summer, so I changed our walk from 4:00 to 6:00. When the weather cooled, I moved back to 4:00. There were problems in the playground so I moved back to 6. My dog complained, b/c I feed him after the walk... but he adapted. When daylight saving time changes, I'll probably go back to 4... and he'll adapt. 

Growling - a dog on a leash may behave differently than when off leash.

Helpful downloads: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

Teach him "off" the bed. Say "off," show him the treat, reward and praise when he gets off. Tell him to go to his own bed.. reward and treat. If you put pillows or other things on the bed to block him, he won't jump on... But you have to be consistent to 're-train' him. When the weather is cold, you may find that it's nice to have a warm puppy... as long as he is invited.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Seizure1990 said:


> As the photos sort of show, he has bald patches on his legs. The people at the adoption event said that it is probably just from laying in the kennels so long. Is that common? Will it likely grow back?


May or may not. They don't look too old, so probably. 



> At the adoption even, the volunteers told me to feed him once in the day, around noon, but when I brought him to the pet supply store for food, the guy remarked he was very skinny. On top of that, my grandmother says when she had a dog, they fed him twice, once in the morning and once in the evening. And once again on top of all that, if I feed my dog early in the day, he starts going crazy by evening, looking at his bowl and letting me know he's hungry. What is the right move here?


To me, he doesn't look too thin. I feed mine twice a day just because I can't imagine only eating once a day. If I only had breakfast, then had to wait until the next day to have more food, with maybe only a snack from one point to the other, I'd be sick, but that's me. I offer my dogs that option as well.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

spotted nikes said:


> Are you sure you didn't jump into pet ownership a little too soon? It sounds like you don't work, and are relying on family for funds, and they aren't 100% supportive since they don't want to pay for training/crates etc, and your comment that if the dog had accidents you'd have to get rid of the dog...


My family is willing to buy anything that is required. What is required obviously differs depending on who you ask, and the others seem to think it's unnecessary so far... I'm going to be bringing these subjects up at the vet office though and getting more opinions... Just saying that since I'm not the one spending the money here, it's hard for me to argue too much that they should buy something they think we don't need...

And yes, I'm expecting accidents now and then. I meant that if there were irreconcilable difference between my schedule, my family's capacity to pay for doggy walkers/daycare, and his needs, then he would unfortunately need to go. So far, it doesn't seem like it will be that way at all. 



hanksimon said:


> *snip*


Thanks for all the info! It's also encouraging to hear that these guys aren't as sensitive to changes in routine as I thought. I'm definitely going to find something to put against the door (he tore a sheet I draped over it in half within a minute -- should have seen that one coming...). And I'll start looking around for free classes. Anything free is good!



HollowHeaven said:


> To me, he doesn't look too thin. I feed mine twice a day just because I can't imagine only eating once a day. If I only had breakfast, then had to wait until the next day to have more food, with maybe only a snack from one point to the other, I'd be sick, but that's me. I offer my dogs that option as well.


That's sort of how I've been thinking about it...

Speaking of which, the directions on the dog bag are made for single feedings. How do I split it up for two feedings per day? Exactly half? Half plus some?


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Seizure1990 said:


> My family is willing to buy anything that is required. What is required obviously differs depending on who you ask, and the others seem to think it's unnecessary so far... I'm going to be bringing these subjects up at the vet office though and getting more opinions... Just saying that since I'm not the one spending the money here, it's hard for me to argue too much that they should buy something they think we don't need...
> 
> And yes, I'm expecting accidents now and then. I meant that if there were irreconcilable difference between my schedule, my family's capacity to pay for doggy walkers/daycare, and his needs, then he would unfortunately need to go. So far, it doesn't seem like it will be that way at all.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear that family is ok with paying for dog expenses if needed.
You can screw in a piece of clear plexiglass, and just remove, fill holes and paint when no longer desired. Or keep a piece of plywood by door, and slide it into place when you shut door.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Calorie count is important. Split the two feedings exactly in half. Start with the lower part of the range (if given) and slowly add more if the pup starts to lose weight... the feed bags are sometimes too generous. And, if the pup starts gaining too much weight ( 5 lb overweight is a lot ), then cut back on treat, snacks, rewards... table scraps sneaking under the table


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

spotted nikes said:


> Glad to hear that family is ok with paying for dog expenses if needed.
> You can screw in a piece of clear plexiglass, and just remove, fill holes and paint when no longer desired. Or keep a piece of plywood by door, and slide it into place when you shut door.


I'm thinking of putting a wooden board in front too. The issue is finding a way to mount it without damaging the door at ALL (if my grandmother wasn't so crazy about this one thing, then it wouldn't even matter that he was scratching the door). I'm sure I'll figure out something though with a bit of thinking so no big deal.



hanksimon said:


> Calorie count is important. Split the two feedings exactly in half. Start with the lower part of the range (if given) and slowly add more if the pup starts to lose weight... the feed bags are sometimes too generous. And, if the pup starts gaining too much weight ( 5 lb overweight is a lot ), then cut back on treat, snacks, rewards... table scraps sneaking under the table


Oh gee. And I've been feeding him the full amount twice a day because they said he was skinny and I worried about underfeeding him... At any rate, should I ramp down slowly from his current diet to prevent issues, or is it ok to go straight down to halves?

I've been VERY clear to family that feeding Maxi human food is a big NO. It looks like his previous family fed him plenty of it, but that stops here. For treats, he gets his own special doggy treats, or peanut butter, or for a real special occasion, the two mixed together. 

Are there any other human foods besides peanut butter which make good, healthy treats for dogs?


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

It's OK to go 'cold turkey' ... and cut his food back. He won't like it, but he'll adjust in a few days, and it won't hurt him.

Try to avoid giving him any people food with lots of animal fat... Turkey skins have been implicated as being a major cause of pancreatitis (serious!) during Thanksgiving. Also, no onion, garlic, chocolate, grapes, raisins, macademias, coffee, cooked bones, etc.

You can give him raw carrots (cut off the green top, it is poisonous), steamed green beans, steamed brocolli, most other vegetables are OK... Try to remove strings from beans or celery. Search the Forum for more info, especially the food section.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> It's OK to go 'cold turkey' ... and cut his food back. He won't like it, but he'll adjust in a few days, and it won't hurt him.
> 
> Try to avoid giving him any people food with lots of animal fat... Turkey skins have been implicated as being a major cause of pancreatitis (serious!) during Thanksgiving. Also, no onion, garlic, chocolate, grapes, raisins, macademias, coffee, cooked bones, etc.
> 
> You can give him raw carrots (cut off the green top, it is poisonous), steamed green beans, steamed brocolli, most other vegetables are OK... Try to remove strings from beans or celery. Search the Forum for more info, especially the food section.


Thanks, I'll be checking the food section now!

If there isn't a thread there elaborating on the Yes's and No's of food for dogs, can you tell me what the "etc" is? Some sort of pattern I can follow, or just random stuff I'll have to cobble together from different sources?

Again, thanks to everyone for all the help!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Hopefully, someone will post the link to foods toxic to pets. Most vegetables are OK. Steam potatoes and Yams, and remove green stuff (on carrots and potatoes), as well as seeds from any vegetables (or fruit). Avoid processed people food and any stimulants. No alcohol or artificial sweetners (one in particular, but I don't recall.) Those are also toxic to us, but can be deadly to dogs. There isn't a pattern, but there are a number of places that list most of these things, there may even be a Sticky in one of the Forums.

Your vet may have "the List."

Also, if you give your dog too much of some food, it may upset his stomach. For example, feeding a lot of treats for an hour training session may be too much. It won't hurt him... and you'll learn.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

People often use cheese and hotdogs as treats. Obviously not large portions-one hot dog could be cut into a dozen or so pieces. Even bread would work. As long as it isn't poisonous/unhealthy and given in moderation, mostly anything the dog likes will work as a treat. But I knew a dog that LOVED chocolate poptarts. Obviously not ok to give the dog that lol in a way they are like little kids.


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

Not sure i'm adding anything new here. Malamutes do get damn hot in the summer. If your house is going to be hot, then I'd probably avoid them. They're a big dog and aren't around a long time. I'm not sure why you'd go there.

Border Collies require a lot of activity. I don't think there's a ratio of the ideal type, but they're high energy and smart. They need time with people. You have a big household so that helps, but as someone said, they're not best for first time owners. You've read lots about breeds, but you don't know what type of dog owner you are yet. You might not be suitable.

I'd get a mix from a shelter. Rescues are nice as well, but unless you make $250k, have 3 children between the ages of 10 and 14, have at least 1/10th of an acre, have had dogs before, are willing to let them inspect your home and in the end be willing to have them tell you that they'd rather have dogs killed than give you one then they might not be a good idea.

Thursday will be rough. Are you getting a puppy? If so, you need to realize that finding a place for it to chill is harder. Until they've had their 3rd round of shots, I'd keep them away from kennels or daycares. That can mean you have to wait 3 months. My advice would be to enlicit some help from friends and give them a stake in it. Ask for advice on type of dogs, send them links, etc. When you find the one you want, you can really do that or bring some close friends in to see him/her before you adopt. Lots of people want a dog, but can't really have one. You'll have one and need some help. They can get the joy of being a grandparent. "Oh I stopped by your place and took your dog out and played for an hour. Then he pooped on the floor. You might want to pick that up when you get home.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Toxic foods:

http://www.entirelypets.com/toxicfoods.html

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-control/people-foods.aspx

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/tips/foods_poisonous_to_pets.html

http://www.webvet.com/main/ToxicFoodFinder


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

seaboxador said:


> Not sure i'm adding anything new here. Malamutes do get damn hot in the summer. If your house is going to be hot, then I'd probably avoid them. They're a big dog and aren't around a long time. I'm not sure why you'd go there.
> 
> Border Collies require a lot of activity. I don't think there's a ratio of the ideal type, but they're high energy and smart. They need time with people. You have a big household so that helps, but as someone said, they're not best for first time owners. You've read lots about breeds, but you don't know what type of dog owner you are yet. You might not be suitable.
> 
> ...



The OP has already brought the dog home.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> Toxic foods:
> 
> http://www.entirelypets.com/toxicfoods.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for saving me the effort!  Been sick with the flu, and had my mid-term today. I'm just glad the weekend is finally here and I can rest up and spend some serious bonding time with my new friend.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

What's news with Sandy ?


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> What's news with Sandy ?


This.

Also, hope you are feeling better.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm getting better slowly, and thanks for asking! Everything is fine though. I live in a high-lying area, so we just have to deal with some nasty rain and winds. Other parts of NYC are being evacuated though.

Maxi has been bonding very well with me and follows me around the house without any interaction on my part. The groomer cancelled last-minute on me, so I bought some doggie shampoo and gave him a bath myself, and he looks, feels, and smells tons better now.

We've been working on a combination of bite inhibition and learning to SIT and STAY, along with the basic rules of the house like "no going into the kitchen" and "no shoving your head into the feeding cup while I'm trying to pour it into your bowl".

We also started Giardia and round-worm medication today. Poor maxi is infected, which explains how super skinny he is, and why his poop is so runny and gross.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

>>>Poor maxi is infected

Sorry to hear this... b/c: When he's cleared up, now he might have much more energy and be more enthusiastic 

Sounds like you're doing the right thing and making progress. SIT is your friend...

Glad to hear that Sandy won't be catastrophic in your area...


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> >>>Poor maxi is infected
> 
> Sorry to hear this... b/c: When he's cleared up, now he might have much more energy and be more enthusiastic
> 
> ...


You should see how he jumps when he knows we're going for a walk. o.o

If more energy is coming along the way, even more important to get these good behaviors and commands into his head!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Opening an old thread ... Don't expect an answer...

How is Maxi doing? And, what's new with school ... or the new job (?)

Too late now, I should have mentioned it 3 years ago ... When I had the flu & chills and Shep was young, I used him as a hot water bottle


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

Seizure1990 said:


> Some breed-related questions I already have in particular:
> - I have heard from someone that Huskies and Malamutes have a tendency to run away when not on a leash. Is this true? Additionally, is it cruel to keep a Husky/Malamute in an environment with hot weather, or is it not a problem so long as I have its fur trimmed? It gets very hot and humid here in the summers and I have no AC.


If you can live there a dog will be fine. Just make sure they have plenty of water. A husky or malamute will be pretty chill in those hot days. That said, if you live in phoenix or somehwere like that, a dog more suited to the climate would be a good idea.



zeronightfarm said:


> Husky, mals, BC are NOT for a first time owner. All very high energy, with high training needs.


Yeah I'd love a BC but I'm not active enough for one. They're really ideally suited for families where a few people can split up the dog's daily entertainment.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> Opening an old thread ... Don't expect an answer...
> 
> How is Maxi doing? And, what's new with school ... or the new job (?)
> 
> Too late now, I should have mentioned it 3 years ago ... When I had the flu & chills and Shep was young, I used him as a hot water bottle


Wow, what a surprise to get a notification in my inbox about this thread! I'm more then happy to give an update!

Just recently finished my associates, and I'll be transferring to a new school for my BS. I currently work part time at the local HQ of a global NGO.

Maxi is basically fine. He somehow managed to get lyme disease, even though we use Vectra anti flea and tick on him... sigh... He had a nasty limp and swollen ankle for a while, we thought it was a sprain but then he got tested and came up positive. :/ Oh well, he's being treated for it now.

I'm actually at the tail end of two and a half week vacation in Norway, and he started treatment while I was gone. Hoping he'll be much better when I get back. In either case, I look forward to seeing him again and giving him a big hug, I've missed him a lot!


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Gorgeous dog. So glad things worked out for you!


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

I found out literally within an hour of making that post that Maxi actually has cancer...

They're amputating his leg today, and they will probably start him on a chemo regimen. There's two possibilities for which kind of cancer he has. I can't remember their names, but they are both very aggressive. The vet says he probably has 1 to 2 years, best case scenario.

I'm trying to enjoy my last day in Norway, but it's not easy. I can't believe this is happening, I was expecting to see him grow old. This is too short and sudden.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Seizure1990 said:


> I found out literally within an hour of making that post that Maxi actually has cancer...
> 
> They're amputating his leg today, and they will probably start him on a chemo regimen. There's two possibilities for which kind of cancer he has. I can't remember their names, but they are both very aggressive. The vet says he probably has 1 to 2 years, best case scenario.
> 
> I'm trying to enjoy my last day in Norway, but it's not easy. I can't believe this is happening, I was expecting to see him grow old. This is too short and sudden.


Hello. I am very new to the community and was just browsing and saw your post. Having gone through something similar recently, I had to respond.

First of all, I'm really sorry to hear about Maxi's diagnosis. The two types of cancer are most likely osteosarcoma and chondrosarcoma. I know because my 6-year-old Great Dane/shepherd mix was diagnosed with osteosarcoma that presented in the front right ulna earlier this year. Because of the location of his tumor, I was able to opt to have 5" of his ulna removed instead of amputating his leg. He started chemotherapy four weeks after surgery, however the cancer recurred in his leg ten weeks after the surgery date. I lost him last Monday.

If you are going the aggressive treatment route, I believe you are making the right choices for Maxi. Amputation means that there is a complete and utter removal of discomfort and that there is no chance the cancer will return in the leg. Chemotherapy was not bad for Loki at all - he seemed more tired than normal, but otherwise ate, eliminated and played with my other dog just fine. Recovery time from amputation is supposed to generally be short, and Maxi will most likely barely notice the limb is gone, other than being relieved he isn't hurting every time he walks. 

People frequently asked me if I was doing the right thing, if I was sure I wanted to spend that much money, why didn't I just end his suffering the weekend he was diagnosed. I would advise that you do your best to ignore those questions - you should do what is right for you and what is right for Maxi. 

I wouldn't do anything different with Loki. I made the best of the last ten weeks I had with him, and I hope that you can do the same with Maxi and that Maxi falls in the category of dogs who live for a year or more.

I'm mostly a lurker, but if you ever want to talk, or vent, or ask questions (about anything, including CareCredit loans to cover vet costs, about which I am officially an expert), or whatever, please feel free to send me a PM. Since I went through this scenario very recently, I understand the emotional roller coaster it puts you through, and I found that talking to other 'dog people' can really be therapeutic. 

Best wishes,

Hiraeth


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

@Hiraeth - Very sorry to hear about your loss. Appreciate your experience/advice.

Seizure1990 - We've enjoyed hearing about Maxi, and we're sorry to hear about his cancer. What Hiraeth wrote is a good suggestion ... most surgery and amputation is more uncomfortable for the owner than for the dog. Maxi may stumble a bit for the first month or so, as he gets his sea-legs, but in a month or two he should be able to run, and go up and downstairs with minimal trouble. Follow the Vet's advice for helping recuperation and minimizing 'babying' Maxi as he learns to walk etc. Make a point of enjoying the next year or so. You might jot things down in a journal and take more pictures.

I don't want to give false hope, but living in NY you may have access to more Vet research ... You might visit the local Vet school, or even some med schools to see what current research offers. The very important issue is that you want to extend Quality of life, NOT a few additional months of discomfort. On the flip side, you may want to become more educated about the trade-offs of the different chemo options. You may discover that a slightly more expensive option may provide more comfort. I'm not a cancer expert, but I know there's a lot of info out there, and many different trade-offs ... To me, the most important trade-offs are Comfort and cost... 

Ask the Vet lots of questions, write down the issues, chemicals, pain meds, costs, disease names, etc. Ask the Vet about non-conventional methods [Not to replace but] to support current treatment ... and ask where you can go for more info. Then, you might come back to the Dog Health Forum for layman opinions....


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks Hiraeth and hanksimon for your input.

We indeed went for the "aggressive" amputation. The original prognosis they gave was apparently somewhat misleading - Just something the vet was reading out of a textbook more or less, with very little information on Maxi's individual case. Since they amputated his entire leg, including the local lymph node at his shoulder, they will be doing testing on said lymph node to see if it had already spread. From my understanding, if it hadn't yet spread to the lymph node, there is a chance that chemo can completely rid Maxi of his cancer and any micro-metastasizes he may have.

If it has spread, I suppose we're simply looking at a scenario like you described... making him as comfortable as possible with the time we have left.

And thanks for mentioning the CreditCare. I had no idea something like this existed. I will be looking into if it makes sense for us. Too bad I didn't know about this before the amputation. It really discourages me that financial pressure should affect decision making when it comes to my dog's health and life, but that's the reality of the world I suppose. Anything to lessen that pressure is great.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Seizure1990 said:


> Thanks Hiraeth and hanksimon for your input.
> 
> We indeed went for the "aggressive" amputation. The original prognosis they gave was apparently somewhat misleading - Just something the vet was reading out of a textbook more or less, with very little information on Maxi's individual case. Since they amputated his entire leg, including the local lymph node at his shoulder, they will be doing testing on said lymph node to see if it had already spread. From my understanding, if it hadn't yet spread to the lymph node, there is a chance that chemo can completely rid Maxi of his cancer and any micro-metastasizes he may have.
> 
> ...


I also received a misleading original prognosis with Loki and did not get accurate information until I spoke for several hours with an oncologist. I do not want to be negative and ruin your hopes, but I do want to pass along the information that I have so you can be prepared to ask the proper questions. 

If it is osteosarcoma that Maxi has, which is the most common type of long bone cancer in dogs, I was told that there is a 95-98% chance that the cancer had spread to Loki's lungs at the time of diagnosis. Is your vet doing chest radiographs? While the metastases don't show up on radiographs until they are sizeable, I was told that eventually what would end Loki's life was the tumors overtaking his lungs, which I would notice through signs like shortness of breath and light coughing.

Also, when Loki was diagnosed, I was told that there is absolutely no cure for bone cancer, even with amputation and chemotherapy. So perhaps Maxi has a different type of cancer and my information is not relevant. I hope that's the case!

CareCredit is both great and terrible. I wouldn't have been able to afford Loki's treatment without it. From start to finish, I spent slightly over $12K on his care, which included a $4k surgery, three emergency bandage changes, multiple rounds of antibiotics and painkillers, four sets of complete leg/chest radiographs, chemotherapy and vet visit charges. The loan is six months with no interest, or there are other options for a year or two year loans with interest. I warn you - they are absolute fiends about interest rates. If I make a payment even ONE day late, retroactive 29% interest is added to the *entirety* of my loan, even the portions I've paid off. So if you go that route, be very careful about the terms you are agreeing to.

I'm sending good thoughts your way and I'll keep an eye out here in case you have any questions or concerns about loans or anything else that I may be able to help with


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

They did radiographs of his chest and didn't see anything sizeable... He's been coughing a bit, but it's almost impossible to get any meaningful conclusions from that... He's been a sneezy and even somewhat cough-y dog since the day I got him, and he also likes to snap at the moths that flutter in front of him, which also induces coughing.

It's also impossible to gauge "shortness of breath" since he is still getting used to hopping around on 3 legs, and that alone winds him pretty quickly.

We still have no clue what kind of cancer it is, when the vet told me that chemo could possibly cure him, I think he was speaking in very general and theoretical terms. It will be another week at least before we have results though...


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Seizure1990 said:


> They did radiographs of his chest and didn't see anything sizeable... He's been coughing a bit, but it's almost impossible to get any meaningful conclusions from that... He's been a sneezy and even somewhat cough-y dog since the day I got him, and he also likes to snap at the moths that flutter in front of him, which also induces coughing.
> 
> It's also impossible to gauge "shortness of breath" since he is still getting used to hopping around on 3 legs, and that alone winds him pretty quickly.
> 
> We still have no clue what kind of cancer it is, when the vet told me that chemo could possibly cure him, I think he was speaking in very general and theoretical terms. It will be another week at least before we have results though...


The shortness of breath and coughing will appear much further along the road, if they're going to show up at all, sorry I wasn't clear about that. My oncologist told me those symptoms would appear when tumors covered over 50% of Loki's lungs. So don't worry about looking for signs of those symptoms yet, especially if his radiographs are clear! Metastases in the lungs show up on x-rays long before they begin actively effecting the dog.

Loki developed a small cough during chemo which scared the crap out of me, but it was just a reaction to the chemo drugs and not any tumor growth.

Hang in there - I know waiting for results for a week is super stressful. I just tried to remind myself that dwelling on it wouldn't change it, and then Loki would know something was bothering me, so I put on a brave face for him and pushed it to the back of my mind. 

Also, just in case: I know my particular situation didn't turn out well, but please don't take that into account when thinking about Maxi's care. Had I fully amputated Loki's leg instead of trying to save it, he would still be with me today. Drawing from my own experiences, you are definitely doing the right thing and giving Maxi the best chance you can by being very aggressive with his treatment.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you for your help, recommendations, and assurances. I really appreciate it. I will make sure to update this thread when I have new information.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Hey all. A few days ago, the results for his lymph node came back. They tested the flesh around where his lymph node should be, and it came back negative.... they couldn't find the actual lymph node, which I found a bit strange, but on the plus side, that means it wasn't swollen or cancerous, so we're considering that a good result.

Now we're just waiting on the bone tests, which should be coming in early this coming week.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Terrific! Now an optimistic question .... Has Maxi climbed up and down stairs, any trouble with the bathroom,.... when is the last time that he fell?


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

My mother says he climbed up the stairs once, but I wasn't around to see it. Still, good to know he can. He nonetheless prefers to keep downstairs, and I'm not going to pressure him otherwise until he gets his staples out, at the very least.

He doesn't have any real trouble using the bathroom, only exception being when he is specifically trying to mark something. I think he's still trying to figure out how to lift up one hind leg and still remain balanced.

He hasn't fell in a while, I guess half a week to a week now. He's very ginger about where he steps though, probably learned to be more careful and thoughtful about where he walks from the previous falls.

He seems to finally be learning how to moderate his pace and walk around slowly. For a while, he only had two speeds: Laying down, and bounding around at jogging pace.

Also, not an answer to any question in particular, but if you wanted a happy anecdote...

Just a short bit ago, a squirrel somehow managed to sneak into the dining room through a gap in one of the window screens. Before I could really react, Maxi noticed and started chasing the squirrel around the table, hopping around on his three legs as fast as he could... which is actually surprisingly fast.

I finally managed to chase the squirrel out of a window I opened up, and it leaped out without even looking and fell three stories into a rose bush. For anyone who cares to know, I saw it scamper out of the garden so I imagine it's fine.

But for a brief moment, I thought I was in a really bad sitcom.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

So today we found out that Maxi has histiocytic sarcoma. I did some reading on this type of cancer, and nothing I found made me feel very good about the prognosis. They all seem to say that even in the best of cases (localized tumor without any signs of major metastasizing, with radical surgery and chemotherapy as the chosen treatment) most dogs will not live more then a couple years.

I keep telling myself that maybe Maxi is an exceptional case and we caught it early enough to "cure" but perhaps I am just trying to be hopeful and am in denial.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear that  

You never know how cancer will go, but maybe it's time to consider how to make these next couple of years the best.

Sending good thoughts your way, that's just such a hard thing to deal with. *hugs*


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Seizure1990 said:


> So today we found out that Maxi has histiocytic sarcoma. I did some reading on this type of cancer, and nothing I found made me feel very good about the prognosis. They all seem to say that even in the best of cases (localized tumor without any signs of major metastasizing, with radical surgery and chemotherapy as the chosen treatment) most dogs will not live more then a couple years.
> 
> I keep telling myself that maybe Maxi is an exceptional case and we caught it early enough to "cure" but perhaps I am just trying to be hopeful and am in denial.


I am very happy Maxi doesn't have osteosarcoma, as the prognosis would be worse.

This is hard advice to give, honestly, as it's already an upsetting situation and I don't really want to make it worse. However, realistically, bone cancer is not a curable disease. Because dogs are conditioned to hide their discomfort, by the time bone cancer presents in a visible way that is causing a reaction, it has already been present for months. Something like 95-98% of cases (depending on who you ask) progress with metastases occurring. 

It was horrible, but I accepted that Loki was going to lose his life to cancer the minute he was diagnosed. It was only a matter of when. What I would suggest to you is hoping for the best in a very small part of your heart, but preparing for the worst. Cancer is unpredictable at best - Loki survived a fraction of the time that was actually posed to me as a median survival rate. 

When the time came to put Loki to sleep, I had already came to terms with his illness, and therefore was able to hold it together and be there for him at the end. On the timeline of things, his diagnosis was much harder for me to endure than the actual end of his life 10 weeks later, and that is because I refused to live in denial.

I hope Maxi is an exception and that he survives much longer than the average you've been given. However, my best advice would be to enjoy your time with him and be realistic about the fact that your time has been limited. Being honest about his diagnosis will make it easier for both of you in the long run.

Best wishes.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Based on the facts that Hiraeth has experienced ... I recommend that you stay in denial  rather than fretting and worrying. 

Ask the Vet the Hard Questions right now: How much time? How will I know? How do we improve the Quality of the remaining time? Is there anything else that I can do? How do you Euthanize and dispose of the body [My 'favorite' euth is an anesthetic to relax the dog and give me time to say goodbye, and then an overdose to complete the passing. Some Vets will just overdose, which I find to be too quick, if I'm in the room. Disposal can be cremation, burial, or other. It's good to know these things so that you don't have to make a decision through emotional distress.]

Once you have an idea what to expect and you do everything that you can, I think you may feel a little better. The mystery and lack of control adds to the anxiety. After you understand what is possible and you've done everything that you can, some of that anxiety may decrease, and you can enjoy the remaining time. 

Shep is 15yo with a baseball sized tumor on his side and arthritic hips that will fail eventually. A friend gave me the suggestions above ... I've done what I can, so now I'm in 'denial' enjoying the final time. His vision is going but his mind is still very sharp [ I want to do a brain transplant to a younger dog  ] One morning he may wake up coughing from metastasis into his lungs, or we may be walking and he'll fall, unable to stand anymore. Until that time, I'm enjoying every day one day at a time .... and also treating him as I always have treated him ... telling him to go away when he tells me he's starving [Labs are always starving ] .... but fretting when he decides that he doesn't want to eat right now ... skipping a meal is not a good sign, but he still makes up for it later in the day... And I'm keeping a diary.

Good Luck.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks to both of you. I have an appointment tomorrow afternoon to remove Maxi's staples. I already have a few questions I would like to ask, and I will be adding those in as well.

I'll be updating as I continue to get more information and eventually speak to an oncologist.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

hanksimon said:


> Based on the facts that Hiraeth has experienced ... I recommend that you stay in denial  rather than fretting and worrying.
> 
> Ask the Vet the Hard Questions right now: How much time? How will I know? How do we improve the Quality of the remaining time? Is there anything else that I can do? How do you Euthanize and dispose of the body [My 'favorite' euth is an anesthetic to relax the dog and give me time to say goodbye, and then an overdose to complete the passing. Some Vets will just overdose, which I find to be too quick, if I'm in the room. Disposal can be cremation, burial, or other. It's good to know these things so that you don't have to make a decision through emotional distress.]
> 
> ...


See, I think there's a difference between "denial" and "acceptance". Denial will lead to devastation. Acceptance will lead to being able to enjoy the years you have left with Maxi because you've accepted that you can't change his diagnosis, and that you've done everything you can to make sure he lives a happy life 

The horrible things to think of: I'd also recommend against the "overdose" method of euthanasia - Loki got one shot that allowed him to fall asleep and then another that stopped his heart after he was already totally out of it. I had him cremated and the ashes returned to me. These were both decisions I made *way* beforehand and informed my vet of before I took him in.

The great things to think of: Acceptance made sure I got things done with Loki that I wouldn't have otherwise. I got ink prints of his paws (for later tattoos on my ribs), I took a picture with him every day, I made sure he got his favorite treats and got outside to play when he was able to. I trimmed off some of his fur and have it stored in a locket. I wouldn't have done some of those things right away if I had gone with the "years" estimate.

Yes, please keep us updated, and I hope the oncologist is able to answer many of your questions. My oncologist was a wonderful woman who somehow managed to make me feel better despite the horrible things we were having to discuss. 

The mantra that got me through it was "this sucks but I'm doing everything I can and he is still with me today".


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Agreed. "Denial" joke intended to soften the bluntness of the message that followed.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Well the test results were all as good as can be hoped for. His lymph node tested negative, as I said, and they also got the bone results in, which came back negative as well.

I am waiting for them to "finalize" the results, and recommend me an oncologist. I will try to call them about that tomorrow and ask them what the hold up on that is.

It also seems that my beloved Maxi, always too smart for his own good, has realized that with an entire leg missing, he can now fit through the bars of the front gate, and did so today in what I assume was meant to be an epic quest from our house to the local pet supply store... Someone saw him hopping about and caught him, and took him to the local vet office, where they scanned his chip and contacted us.

So now we need to block up the front gate.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Seizure1990 said:


> Well the test results were all as good as can be hoped for. His lymph node tested negative, as I said, and they also got the bone results in, which came back negative as well.
> 
> I am waiting for them to "finalize" the results, and recommend me an oncologist. I will try to call them about that tomorrow and ask them what the hold up on that is.
> 
> ...


I'm glad all of the results are coming in negative and I hope you find an oncologist you really like! Remember, if anything about the oncologist your vet recommends sets off red flags, it's okay to get another opinion. I am always really hesitant to say 'hey, I appreciate your thoughts but I'm nervous and would like another expert to examine my dog', but that's sometimes a really important thing to be able to do.

Maxi escaping probably wasn't funny at the time, but it sounds to me like he has retained his personality and energy/mischief levels and is recovering really well, so that's a good thing  

Please keep us updated!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

When you go to the oncologist, continue to ask about Comfort, Quality of Life, Side Effects, etc.


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

We went to an oncologist a short while ago, had Maxi checked out, and asked all the important questions.

This Tuesday, we are going for another appointment, to get Maxi his chemo prescription and continue with the treatment process. He'll be getting an oral chemo treatment, which makes me feel better. At the least, I can administer it myself and it doesn't have to be a needle every three weeks. He will have to go to the vet for weekly checkups though, partially to make sure he doesn't have any dangerously adverse reactions to the chemo, and partially to monitor the progress of the cancer.

The doctor told me that 90% of dogs with the sort of cancer he has have to be put to sleep within two years of starting chemo treatment, but that if he goes for two years without any metastasis, it's unlikely that we will ever see any in him. So I am trying to be hopeful, while also realizing that it's very likely these are the last handful of months I have with him.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Wishing for the best!!!!

Be sure to ask the oncologist (and ANY pharmacist that you can talk with) about side effects, if any, with the chemo and ways to address them.

After the gate escape, it doesn't sound like Maxi has slowed down  I still suggest keeping a journal, as well as videos.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

To follow up hanksimon's advice, if a side effect of the pill form of chemo is nausea and/or vomiting (I know these are side effects of IV administered chemo), your vet can send you home with an anti-nausea pill. This is what my oncologist did for me - she said 95% of people never need them, but it's better to have and not need than need and not have. 

Sounds like Maxi is in the best hands possible and I'm crossing my fingers that everything goes well for both of you!


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## Seizure1990 (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you, I plan to document him, mostly through photography.

We spoke with the oncologist plenty before going through with this, and discussed all the side effects and how we plan to deal with them. Most likely, the only side effect we'll be seeing is a temporary reduction in white blood cells. He'll be taking anti-biotics for the duration until they go back up to normal levels.

Yes, he's still quite active.

The vet told me matter of factly that 90% of dogs diagnosed with histiocytic sarcoma have to be put to sleep within two years of starting chemo treatment. If he goes two years without any signs of metastasis, then it's unlikely he will have any metastasizes past then.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Seizure1990 said:


> Thank you, I plan to document him, mostly through photography.
> 
> We spoke with the oncologist plenty before going through with this, and discussed all the side effects and how we plan to deal with them. Most likely, the only side effect we'll be seeing is a temporary reduction in white blood cells. He'll be taking anti-biotics for the duration until they go back up to normal levels.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a wonderful plan  I documented Loki through photography, as well, and while I cannot bring myself to look at the photos yet, I am thankful that I have them for the future. 

Something to help keep you calm if his white blood cell count is low - Loki's was *very* low the week after his first chemo and I was incredibly worried about it. The oncologist told me that it would go back up to almost normal levels before the next chemo, but I was still scared silly. Before the second chemo, his wbcc was slightly below average, but not a concerning amount. So even if his first count comes back low, don't get too scared - they rebound a lot faster than you'd think possible


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