# Agility Course Map Analysis



## MissMutt

So I thought it'd be fun to maybe once a week or every few days post an agility course for people to contemplate over.. talk about how they'd run it if it were their dog.

I'll post a course to start (from one of my favorite judges!)










I've not actually run this course but I'm thinking front cross between 4 and 5, between 8 and 9, and then a slight back over 14 (not confident in my dog's ability to take the pinwheel at enough distance to get a front in) and a back over 17.

Of course, because I'm obsessed with back crosses, I'm currently looking it over again and thinking about how I could try to run the whole thing with backs..


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## LynnI

Looks like a nice flowing course, I would lead out past 2, FC on the landing side of 4, FC on the landing side of 8. I would look at doing a FC on the take off side of 13, but could possibly do a Rear cross before 14, depending on how it walked. RC before 17.


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## Keechak

start on right side 
Slight lead out on #1
FC at #3
Strong call after #5 to lead them away from the table
FC after #9
FC after #13
Done

That is how I'd run for Hawkeye he's still a begginer and isn't very good at anything but the front cross, 
Kechara's could be handled a little different

Start on right
lead out to #2
BC after #3
BC after #7
RC after #13
RC after #16
Done


oh and is what you call a "Back Cross" the same thing as what I call a "Blind Cross"? where you cross in front of the dog facing away from them?


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## MissMutt

That box that says RS isn't a table, Erin, it just means that that's where the ring stewards would be.

Also, what's "BC" mean? Blind cross? Because I saw you said both "BC" and "RC" (which I'm assuming is rear cross).


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## Keechak

ah yes I see now not a table I am blind

BC=blind cross
RC=rear cross
FC=front cross


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## MissMutt

> oh and is what you call a "Back Cross" the same thing as what I call a "Blind Cross"? where you cross in front of the dog facing away from them?


Nope. My back cross is a rear cross. Blind cross is a blind cross.


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## Squeeker

here's how I would run it... orange is Libby, blue is me. I drew this before reading all of your comments, but depending on how it looked when I walked it I might consider doing rear crosses instead at 13 and 16. Add me to the list of people who LOVE rear crosses!


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## Shaina

Blue is Kim, Green is Web...Pink is me lol
Granted this could change with the physical course before me but this would be my plan heading into the walk-through, depending on what environmental factors were in play.

Also a good illustration of how running Kim & Web back to back can be challenging lol















Note: on Kim's the Lead Out is actually a Lead Out Pivot...forgot the P

Normally I designate Front Cross as FX and Rear Cross as RX...I've never intentionally done a Blind Cross so you won't see that...went with RC and FC to be consistent though.


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## MissMutt

Hmm, didn't think about doing a Lead Out Pivot! It seems like one of those courses that could go either way when actually set up (like you said, they're never really exactly the same as the map). But that's a good thought to get rid of that front cross..


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## Shaina

Well I mean, a LOP _is _a front cross, or a form of one at least. You're just starting there which allows you to cue a bit earlier (heck, being there waiting _is_ a cue). With Webster, doing a proper LOP would require too much lateral distance for his skill/confidence level, so I'd have to stay closer and then hustle myself over to hit the FX


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## MissMutt

Yeah, I know, but I'm much more comfortable with lead out pivots than front crosses on course so I regard them as different things


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## LynnI

How does everyone study their maps? For example, I never figure out where or what I am going to do from looking at the map. All I work on at that point is the order, i.e. in my head, jump, tunnel, tire, jump, frame etc. Once I can walk the course is when I first study the path of my dog and then what I need to do and my path. I do this because I have seen too many judges makes huge changes in a course to the point where it can look nothing like what is on the map, therefore changing any crosses etc that I plan. I have also seen too many people get confused or into trouble because of those changes.


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## Squeeker

When I look at the map I first draw the path that the dog needs to take, and then I just sort of get an idea of what I might want to try when I get to walk the course. I never make any decisions until I walk, though. I also watch the dogs before me to get an idea of handling errors that I can avoid making, so what I walk might not even end up being what I walked.


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## Shaina

LynnI said:


> How does everyone study their maps?


In a trial-type situation (either real trial or practice), I may glance at the map to get a general feel for the curves of the course...is it looping down and back, winding around, around the outside, etc. On a standard course, what obstacles are present? But really, maybe 50% of the time I don't even look at the map because small changes can make such a huge difference.

For walking, I usually go out and walk the course once from the dog's perspective first (walking through the jumps, walking up to entrance points and from exit points of contacts/tunnels/weaves) to ID traps, possible off-courses, weird angles, efficient lines, etc. Pick out the key points of the course and figure out where I want to be for those. Then go back and walk the course again as a handler to figure out how I'm getting from point A to B to C without confusing my dog and to see if how I want to handle those key points fit in with the greater flow of the course.


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## MissMutt

Trials are the only times I see maps, so all of what I say applies only to trial situations..

Usually I run to get the maps quickly because studying them gives me something to do during the long wait in between runs!  I identify areas where Marge can be a little more independent, and also areas where I know I'm going to have to really work to get her going to the right obstacle. But, like you guys, its ultimately walking the course where I make up my mind as to what I'm going to do. Usually my final plan resembles somewhat the plan I first laid out looking at the map, but there are a lot of courses that change drastically from map to real life.


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## Xeph

Running Strauss:

Begin on right side of the jump and move on the inside line

Rear cross at 4 to pull him into me over jump 5. If I try a front cross, I will be run over, and so it is far better for me to push him over 4 and use the position of my body to pull him in and get him over jump 5.

Optimally I would call "GET OUT, through!" for a send into the weaves, however, knowing my dog as I do, for now I'd probably have to call him in and circle so he would be on my left for the entry to the weaves (with no practice in over a year, I'm being realistic about what would happen xD).

Send to 7 with a lateral run to 8 to perform a front cross and pull him into and over jumps 9-1e (I HATE PINWHEELS!). I would likely attempt a front cross at 13 to get myself back on the inside line so I could pull my dog into me with my body position, but what would most likely happen is that I would use a rear cross to get on that inside line while sending him over 14, because chances are I will not beat my dog, and we'll just have a "battle".

Send to jump 15 and bust my butt to get forward of his line for that dog walk, because he will crash and burn on the approach if I don't swing him out wide enough. I am one to admit that I would rather have him take the off course jump as opposed to eating it on the dogwalk because my timing was crap.

Front cross at the dog walk, as I know I will get there before he does (this and the teeter are the only contact obstacles where I can "beat" him to a position), send to 17, call in, and send to 18.

I hope I wasn't too wordy, but I do like to explain why I run this dog the way I do.


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## MissMutt

Xeph, 16 isn't a Dog Walk, it's a double jump


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## Xeph

SWEET! That makes it SO much easier.

Also, why didn't I notice before this was "just" a jumpers course? Probably not enough sleep...

In that case, call into 16, rear cross, send over 17, call in to 18!


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## MissMutt

OK, how's about another course??










BTW, feel free to post some of your own; Lynn, seeing some AAC courses might be cool!

I'm thinking dog on left, slight leadout
FC the A-Frame
Let the dog pass and enter weaves, cross behind dog, dog on left again
Push out to 7 and 8
FC between 8 and 9, dog on right to table
Lead out at table, dog on left, send out over 15 and then pull to dog walk
FC dog walk, dog on right for the closing sequence.


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## And

MissMutt said:


> I'm thinking dog on left, slight leadout
> FC the A-Frame
> Let the dog pass and enter weaves, cross behind dog, dog on left again
> Push out to 7 and 8
> FC between 8 and 9, dog on right to table
> Lead out at table, dog on left, send out over 15 and then pull to dog walk
> FC dog walk, dog on right for the closing sequence.


I think I would do pretty much what you said, expect for the closing. Since Belle does not have much of a contact performance, for us I would go..
After the dog walk, send to 17, RC and then finish.


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## LynnI

I don't have a scanner at the moment but for those interested here is a link to the AAC's Regaionl Championships courses.

http://www.aac.ca/en/regionals/main/default.aspx 

To give you an idea what we run for a Masters level course.

If anyone has questions about the traps/problems of the courses in the Ontario binder, I can tell you, as those are the courses that we ran.

In the 2010 Ontario Regionals, we were clean on Jumpers 1 (won it), Gamblers 1, Gamblers 2 (won it) and Standard 2 (4th). Jumpers 2 had some very snotty spots and I missed seeing a very clear OC (along with many other people lol, we were in good company!!).


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## Squeeker

Interesting course! 

My plan would be a bit different because Libby has been running under or around the tire lately, especially off the start. So, I would start with her on my right for the leadout so that she could take the tire without slicing it and see me the whole time through the hole. 

The jumps after the A-Frame are a threadle, right? I've never run one, but I expect I'd send her over the first, wrap her back around, false turn to line her up for the second, and then FC to hit the weaves with her on my left.

FC at 8, FC while she's down on the table, and then either FC or RC after the dog walk (depending on how it walks) for the finish.

I'd like to post some maps, but being at a Starters level I don't think they'd provide much conversation! I also have a couple interesting gamblers and snooker courses that we ran a couple of weeks ago, but I don't think you guys have those games in the US.


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## MissMutt

Oh crap!! I TOTALLY saw 3 - 4 as a 180! But, you're right, it's a threadle!

We DO have Snooker in the US, and it'd definitely be cool if you posted some courses.


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## And

MissMutt said:


> Oh crap!! I TOTALLY saw 3 - 4 as a 180! But, you're right, it's a threadle!
> 
> We DO have Snooker in the US, and it'd definitely be cool if you posted some courses.


Woah I did too. Haha I just looked back at what I drew and thought it was a 180.

@Squeeker - We have both games in the US! Those are actually the two games I have the most Q's in for CPE  

@Lynn - Those courses looked crazy. Especially those gambles.. Congrats on winning those! It would be interesting to run them!


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## Squeeker

OK, here's the snooker course we q'd on at our last fun match. I'll post how we ran it after.


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## And

So for the Open I would use... R1 - Aframe - R2 - Wrap to Aframe - R3 - Tunnel

And for the other Open to get maximum points... R1 - Aframe- R2 Wrap to Aframe - R3 - Wrap- Aframe - Run like hell to the tire and not take anything in between! 

I really like Snookers. Generally I try to avoid jumps in my opening because Belle has a tendency to knock bars  We learned this Snooker Lesson at our first trial.


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## MissMutt

In Starters Snooker, you complete 3 reds when you're doing the opening sequence, right? And then after you're done with all of that you run all of the numbered ones in order?


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## Squeeker

yup! Them's the rules!


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## MissMutt

Hmm.. I am thinking R1 - Tunnel - R3 - 6ABC (could I use the offside tunnel entrance if I wanted to?) - R2 - Jump 3. I think that gives me enough points..


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## LynnI

MissMutt said:


> Hmm.. I am thinking R1 - Tunnel - R3 - 6ABC (could I use the offside tunnel entrance if I wanted to?) - R2 - Jump 3. I think that gives me enough points..


For AAC Starters Snooker you need 37 pts to get a Q, at least 3 reds must be attempted, on the posted course it states that all obstacles are multi directional, so yes you could do the 6ABC in any order as long as each element is completed successfully.


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## MissMutt

That 37 points includes the closing, right? Which in this case would be 27 points?


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## LynnI

Yes that is correct the closing is always worth 27 pts, no matter what level the class is.


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## Squeeker

For our Q we did R1 - AFrame - R2 - Tunnel - R4 - Tire, and then the close.


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## MissMutt

Do you have to take the tire twice in that scenario, Squeeker?


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## Squeeker

Yup, and that's actually part of the reason why I ran it that way. We'd never run snooker before and I wanted to make sure we ended our opening close to the start of the closing!


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## MissMutt

It sounds like a lot of fun!

Someone, quick, post another course! I need to study - got a trial coming up in 6 weeks!


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## Shaina

LOL @ MissMutt 

And yeah, I don't have a scanner...


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## MissMutt

Me either - I have one of my old courses from a trial uploaded on the computer, but it's a Novice Standard Course that literally required one cross - so not much to talk about there.

Lemme go find one on Agilitycoursemaps.com...










This is a toughie that I've looked at alot..


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## MissMutt

Hmm, no one on this one? I think it's got some tricky spots..

I'm thinking lead out just past 2, dog on left, push out over 3 and over 4. I keep looking for a spot to front cross after that but I'm not really seeing it. Maybe after 5 since the triple will mean that the dog lands far out there?? Rear cross between 9 and 10, rear cross between 11 and 12, probably send dog in to weaves and then rear cross, depending on how it walks, dog on left for the close.


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## Shaina

With Kim, I would rear-cross the heck out of that course. LO to 3 or so, dog on left, rear cross between 5 and 6, pull the pinwheel, rear cross between 9 and 10 most likely, again between either 11 and 12 or 12 and 13 (depending on how she was running that day), probably pull into the weaves then rear cross to 18.

With Web, LO to the landing side of 2, front cross to 6 and 9, rear cross to 13, front cross into the weaves and keep dog on left til the finish.


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## Squeeker

I drew it out (too lazy to upload the photo tonight) and it turned out to be pretty much haow Shaina said - RC at 5, 9, 12, and 17. I like that one!


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## KBLover

Map Analysis - sounds like a war or playing a real-time strategy game. 

But this thread is FASCINATING. I don't run agility, but just reading this is really interesting.


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## MissMutt

I'm glad you enjoy it, KB  I myself am enjoying it, too!


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## LynnI

MissMutt said:


> Me either - I have one of my old courses from a trial uploaded on the computer, but it's a Novice Standard Course that literally required one cross - so not much to talk about there.
> 
> Lemme go find one on Agilitycoursemaps.com...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a toughie that I've looked at alot..


Ok, Dog on left, lateral lead out @ 3, FC or RC before 6, FC after 9, send out to 10 while layering 11, FC on landing side of 11, FC before 17, finish with dog on left. Looks like a straight forward course IF it is as the map indicates lol.



KBLover said:


> Map Analysis - sounds like a war or playing a real-time strategy game.
> 
> But this thread is FASCINATING. I don't run agility, but just reading this is really interesting.


Agility is all about strategy, knowing how to best run your dog on any given day, as that can change from day to day or course to course.


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## KBLover

LynnI said:


> Agility is all about strategy, knowing how to best run your dog on any given day, as that can change from day to day or course to course.


Haha as I see!

Some of these diagrams rival playbooks in football. Only difference is instead of x's and o's it's the symbols for the obstacles and the path of the team.

I mean, I can see myself get into just this aspect of agility. Arm chair agility quarterback as it were 

Besides, I'm glad I responded since I'm still autoranking threads (or my ghost is or something) so this one deserves 5 stars and now it has it LOL 

Agilitycoursemaps.com? *runs off to see the site*


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## LynnI

KBLover said:


> Haha as I see!
> 
> Some of these diagrams rival playbooks in football. Only difference is instead of x's and o's it's the symbols for the obstacles and the path of the team.
> 
> I mean, I can see myself get into just this aspect of agility. Arm chair agility quarterback as it were
> 
> Besides, I'm glad I responded since I'm still autoranking threads (or my ghost is or something) so this one deserves 5 stars and now it has it LOL
> 
> Agilitycoursemaps.com? *runs off to see the site*


You should consider play with Wally, bet he would love it!!!


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## KBLover

LynnI said:


> You should consider play with Wally, bet he would love it!!!


I think he would like it. 

At least until it came to the tire jump (he'd worry he can't fit) or the teeter (I can picture it now how big his eyes will get once it starts going down while he's still on it LOL). Tunnel might be interesting too - especially the ones where there's the cloth on the ground that the dog has to drive through. 

He'll like weaving - he....just can't do it yet LOL. Need to get back to practicing it. Can't wait for school to be back in then all the kids can stop wasting all that space in the neighborhood park just screwing around on it when we could be using it to train LOL


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## Xeph

For Strauss on this course, I'd start with him on my right. 1, 2, "Come! Go on!" rear cross at 3, 4, 5, rear cross to 6, "COME!" 7, 8, 9, "Go on!" 10, "COME!" 11, "Go on!" 12, 13, rear cross to 14 to be on the inside line, "Come! Go on!" at 15 and 16 "Come, through!" to the weaves (I'd probably rear cross the weaves, if he'd let me), "Come!" to 18, and Go on through the last of it.

All that said...this isn't a course I'd like to run with this particular dog.


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## LynnI

Off topic but if you had the right trainer, none of your concerns would probably happen. We just don't ask a dog to get on a full size teeter and expect them to bring it down. It is trained very carefully and in stages to ensure that the dog doesn't get a good case of Teeteritis. 



KBLover said:


> I think he would like it.
> 
> At least until it came to the tire jump (he'd worry he can't fit) or the teeter (I can picture it now how big his eyes will get once it starts going down while he's still on it LOL). Tunnel might be interesting too - especially the ones where there's the cloth on the ground that the dog has to drive through.
> 
> He'll like weaving - he....just can't do it yet LOL. Need to get back to practicing it. Can't wait for school to be back in then all the kids can stop wasting all that space in the neighborhood park just screwing around on it when we could be using it to train LOL


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