# Vaccinations & Outside



## MrsPeck612 (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm new here, because my husband & I are just now getting our first puppy. We pick him up next Friday, & he'll be 8 weeks old. He's a Toy Fox Terrier.  

Anywho...The day we pick him up, he'll have gotten his first round of shots that morning (from what the breeder told me, it's going to be the basic combo vaccine, including parvo). We'll obviously continue his vaccines once he's home with is. In the meantime, what precautions do I need to take? Like, can I take him out back in our small backyard for potty training? Or is that not safe yet? We rent a townhome at the moment (moving out soon to buy a home, thank goodness), & we've only been living here for 10-11 months, so I don't know who lived here previously, or what pets they may have had out there (not to mention strays). 

Basically my questions is...Once he's gotten his first combo vaccine, is it then safe to start taking him outside, & around other people & dogs? Or, so I need to wait until he's had all 3 rounds (8, 12, & 16 weeks)? 

Overall...What's safe & what's not when he's only gotten 1 round of shots? Are there things that need to wait til he has had all 3? 

Sorry for the rambling, & thanks in advance for any advice!


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

I started the potty training outside but I didnt take my pups anywhere else or out to meet other dogs until the series of vaccs were complete. Enjoy your new pup!


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

You should take him to your vet after picking him up from the breeder within the next 48 hours anyway - (most breeder's require or strongly suggest this) to make sure he doesn't have anything wrong with him coming from the kennel and his worming is up to date, along with scheduling his other shots (most vet's will only charge an "office visit/exam" the first time, then just the cost of shots thereafter for the regular puppy shots). The best thing you can do is ask your vet - most will recommend NO visits with unknown dogs/places (parks, rest stops, pet stores, actual walks around the neighborhood where other animals go) until shots are finished. 

It should be safe to take him to a designated "potty area" in your own yard. 6 months typically clears out any virus/germ/yuck from other animals, but only you know if there are a lot of strays that wonder in and out of your yard that you may need to cnsider if they're using it as a restroom. 

"Safe" ADULT dogs that you know have had all their shots and are up to date and healthy currently are fine to introduce him to.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

MrsPeck612 said:


> Anywho...The day we pick him up, he'll have gotten his first round of shots that morning (from what the breeder told me, it's going to be the basic combo vaccine, including parvo). We'll obviously continue his vaccines once he's home with is. In the meantime, what precautions do I need to take? Like, can I take him out back in our small backyard for potty training? Or is that not safe yet? ...Basically my questions is...Once he's gotten his first combo vaccine, is it then safe to start taking him outside, & around other people & dogs? Or, so I need to wait until he's had all 3 rounds (8, 12, & 16 weeks)?


Congrats on your new pup. Sounds like you have done your homework and are well on your way to being a responsible owner.

You should not have a problem taking him out in your own private backyard at this time. In fact, it would be a good thing to do it. Although TFTs don't need a lot of exercise, a short exercise period in the yard is always appreciated. 

Known people and known dogs - that are up to date on _all their vacinations _and _are healthy_ - can usually be visited with after the second vaccination round has taken effect. But let your vet be your guide to that. Sometimes local conditions warrant a more cautious approach and those conditions can be breed specific. 

Do be careful about interaction with larger dogs, even if they are known to be well-tempered. They can inadvertently injure a tiny dog like yours even during play.

Wait until he is quite a bit further along in his vaccination protocol before you take him to public, uncontrolled areas - that also means letting him visit with _unknown dogs_ and _unknown people_. Your vet can give you the thumbs-up on when that will be OK. It depends on what diseases are running through your locale and previous history. 



MrsPeck612 said:


> Overall...What's safe & what's not when he's only gotten 1 round of shots? Are there things that need to wait til he has had all 3?
> 
> Sorry for the rambling, & thanks in advance for any advice!


See above.

TFTs are great dogs but they are terriers through and through. Maintain your NILIF training from the very beginning - _no exceptions_. TFTs are very smart and awfully cute, but keep in mind that as terriers they will always be pushing the behavior envelope, even as puppies.

As soon as your vet says it's OK, sign up for a puppy kindergarden class. Best if you can find one that caters to toy breeds, but no matter what, get started with that. Socialization to other dogs and people in a controlled situation is very important.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

I am afraid risks are unavoidable. The period between 6-12 weeks is a dangerous time. One sniff where a sick dog relieved itself in the last 6 months can bring on parvo or another life threatening disease. Fail to expose it to strangers, including men, women, children, noise, etc. and you could end up with a misfit you can't take out in public. They also need continuing contact with other dogs, but it must be limited to ones you know are getting good care. See http://www.apdt.com/po/news/docs/Messer_Nov06.pdf

After 12 weeks the disease danger continues, but the best time for socialization is past. See http://www.avma.org/animal_health/brochures/canine_parvo/parvo_brochure.asp


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

I should clarify.

I assumed that your puppy had a first vaccination round while at at the breeder, along with the worming, etc.

The second round would be the one that _your vet_ does when your pup first comes home, generally at about 8 weeks. It takes another week or so for the vaccines to take effect. 

You can't eliminate risks of puppy diseases but by being careful and conscientious you can minimize them.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Don't worry about making your dog a misfit. This is all just a guidline and there is very little posibility that your dog will end up a "misfit" if you don't socialize the heck out of him before 12 weeks. My dog didn't get any socialization until after 12 weeks and is the best behaved dog I've ever had OR seen. Explain that to me, huh?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

DJEtzel said:


> Don't worry about making your dog a misfit. This is all just a guidline and there is very little posibility that your dog will end up a "misfit" if you don't socialize the heck out of him before 12 weeks. My dog didn't get any socialization until after 12 weeks and is the best behaved dog I've ever had OR seen. Explain that to me, huh?


Rare! He absolutely didn't get ANY human socialization until after 12 weeks? That does usually make a pup somewhat of a misfit with humans. There is a HUGE risk of a pup ending up a misfit if you don't socialize the heck out of him while young, though I don't know if I'd say it's all over by 12 weeks. Maybe 14-16 weeks, though younger is better. 

Whole Dog Journal had an article last year that said that there are more dogs who are PTS (or forced to live lonely lives chained in the yard) because of problems related to undersocialization than there are those that die from Parvo/Distemper/etc. So they said it was better to get your pup out for socialization (using reasonable judgement, of course) right away rather than wait until he/she has had all the puppy shots. 

Up to you, of course. Like most things in dog ownership, it's all about taking a calculated risk.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

The only socialization he got was littermates and the male human caring for him. sorry i didn't specify that. he never met another dog, cat, woman, child, etc until after 12 weeks. through personal experience, i just don't believe the things said on this subject to some extent.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I think the fact that there is the rare dog that does fine without socialization does not make it worth the risk of taking the chance that your dog is one of them. I think you are better taking your dog out where there are people, kids, other dogs, traffic, etc. even if you just carry them, letting them down in safe areas where there have not been a lot of strange dogs.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

While it would be beneficial to do this at a young age, i'm just saying it's not necessary to do it before 12 weeks. i've met many a dog, not just mine that lived in single animal homes and went on to be fine with other dogs, cats, kids, etc, without that embedded socialization period being fulfilled.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

< mounts soapbox>

We should not panic new dog owners with these "socialization" rules.

A lot of the research on which "socialization theory" is based concerns dogs that were severely sensorily deprived and/or that were raised with little human contact and/or that were removed from the litter too early - or some combination of the three. And it is true that many such dogs did have problems dealing with humans, other dogs, and with new situations as they got older. 

However, it is also true that some of those dogs had a *lot* of contact with other dogs - even ran in feral packs. This did not necessarily mean that they were "socialized". In fact, many had severe problems when meeting new dogs as individuals.

"Socialization" is a complex issue and is not achieved with merely meeting a few other dogs on a random basis. 

A puppy that is kept inside the house with reasonable free time and not kept in a kennel all the time - and is therefore continuously exposed to all the experiences and noise of a modern home - is* not *going to be sensorily deprived. He still may not _like_ some noises, etc, but that's a different issue.

A puppy that happily interacts a lot with even one human on a regular basis is* not* going to be fearful of human contact as it gets older. He may not _like _other people much, but that's a different issue. 

Puppies learn how to interact with other dogs in the litter. Proper care with their mother and their littermates during the first eight weeks imprints the proper dog social behavior. Unfortunately, some dogs are removed from their mom and litterrmates way too early purely for economic reasons. 

I'm not against early introduction to other puppies *in a controlled situation*. In fact, I think it's a good thing because it reinforces what they _should have already learned_ in the litter. 

But if for some reason that introduction doesn't happen until later on - _*and if everything else was done properly*_ - the dog won't be scarred for life. 

<off soapbox>


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

Nor should we encourage a lack of socialization out of fear of disease. See http://www.doglistener.co.uk/puppies/criticalperiods.shtml

What Willowy posted on dogs being put to sleep for lack of socialization is quite true. 

How many of you see fearful dogs out in public? I would like to ask the owners of some of the terrified dogs I see how much they were out in public before 12 weeks? I also grit my teeth over all the very young puppies I see out in places where there are many strange dogs.


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## Trixie (Feb 27, 2008)

The advice on socialization is good advice in general. Citing exceptions (and yes, there are always exceptions) helps no one. In general, dogs need socialization. Telling a new owner anything else can (and often does) lead to lazy puppy-rearing.

I speak from years and years of experience in training people in a whole range of things, not just raising a dog.

We give advice that is good to follow and generally leads to more success.

Telling someone about a personal experience that bucked convention and general advice but lead to success doesn't really help anyone, and is somewhat irresponsible.

In general, puppies need to be socialized. In general they also need their vaccines in order to go into public spaces. Your job (you, rhetorical) is to figure out how to do this.

Our job is to give the best advice we can so that someone can, in general, raise the best dog they can.

40% of all dogs do not end up with their original owner. Personally, I'd like to see that number go down. Lots of quality socialization will help that number go down. Telling people of the exceptions will not.

I want to add that I made a few mistakes raising our dog, and while things ended up OK, I wouldn't recommend the same to others, and I probably would not do the same things to our next dog.


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## DogPaw (Jan 11, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> Nor should we encourage a lack of socialization out of fear of disease. See http://www.doglistener.co.uk/puppies/criticalperiods.shtml
> 
> What Willowy posted on dogs being put to sleep for lack of socialization is quite true.
> 
> How many of you see fearful dogs out in public? I would like to ask the owners of some of the terrified dogs I see how much they were out in public before 12 weeks? I also grit my teeth over all the very young puppies I see out in places where there are many strange dogs.


I just don't agree with this at all. Most of my pups were not socialized before 12 weeks and they turned out just fine. No fear of loud or strange nosies or other dogs or people. Waiting until your dog is 12 weeks old to socialize them is most likely not going to ruin them for life.

As for fearful dogs in public.......We RV full time and spend time in different RV parks and see all kinds of dogs. Not once have I come across dogs with fear issues. 

I think that if you end up with a dog that one or both parents had weak nerves, which can be passed on to the pups, then you could end up with a pup that is not going to be comfortable out in the world. Sometimes no amount of training or socializing is going to change that. But that's a genetic issue, not a "I didn't get my dog out before 12 weeks issue"


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

please complete ALL shots/wormers before letting your puppy interact with any other animals, regardless of what anyone says. your pup's health is more important than socialization at this age. parvo is a very scary and unfortunate thing to go through if you're even willing to try.

my layla contracted parvovirus after her second vaccine. talk to your vet about a vaccination schedule to get all vaccines done as soon as possible. also, please be aware about the 'window of vulnerability' after vaccines. wait 2 weeks or more before introducing your pup to any dogs/territory because the immune system is suppressed after vaccines.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

My puppy is almost 4 months, we have had her for 4 weeks. In her previous home she had no socialization other than her litter mates (they lived next door) and her owners (maybe the random person who came over) she didnt have anyshots. She now has had one set and goes for the second set in the begining of March. Our vet has told us to wait until after her shots to take her out and has advised us to keep our other dog home as well. The dogs do go out in our yard, but I am not willing to take the chance of her getting sick. We do have people come over but not many, but we also have a busy house with 2 preschoolers, 1 teenager a cat and a JRT. I dont think Bella will have socialization issues.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

tonisaysss said:


> please complete ALL shots/wormers before letting your puppy interact with any other animals, regardless of what anyone says. your pup's health is more important than socialization at this age. parvo is a very scary and unfortunate thing to go through if you're even willing to try.
> 
> my layla contracted parvovirus after her second vaccine. talk to your vet about a vaccination schedule to get all vaccines done as soon as possible. also, please be aware about the 'window of vulnerability' after vaccines. wait 2 weeks or more before introducing your pup to any dogs/territory because the immune system is suppressed after vaccines.


I agree. It's completely not worth it to take your dog everywhere to "socialize the heck" out of him just to get parvo and die. It's not that these experiences are irresponsible and exceptions, it's that it's how dogs are. You don't have to socialize them before 12 or 16 weeks to make sure they're perfect dogs. I've never done this with any dog I've had, mostly because I couldn't, and they're all fine. The odds would stack up against me eventually, don't you think? Dogs can learn to function properly after they're safe against disease.

Citing these tons of "exceptions" does help. It shows people that they don't have to be worried to death about their puppy either being a misfit or dieing. They can take care of socialization later in life. I recently socialized my 14y/o pitbull with dogs correctly when he had never been socialized before and was completely aggressive. You can turn anything around.

Keep in mind; just because a large group of people think something is right, doesn't mean it is. Look at how dog food used to be; Iams was the way to go; the best. Now it's been realized that it really isn't as good as people thought.


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## DogPaw (Jan 11, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> Citing these tons of "exceptions" does help. It shows people that they don't have to be worried to death about their puppy either being a misfit or dieing. They can take care of socialization later in life. I recently socialized my 14y/o pitbull with dogs correctly when he had never been socialized before and was completely aggressive. You can turn anything around.
> 
> .


Our bulldog was the same way. She didn't always play well with others and could be quite aggressive with other dogs. For the last 3 years she has been traveling with my husband when he is on the road. She has been exposed to so many dogs and is doing very well in not being aggressive towards them. She will be 6 years old next month.


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## sagira (Nov 5, 2009)

Balance and common sense is key here. I think this is the reason Ian Dunbar stresses puppy parties, and having people coming over to your house as opposed to you going out to meet people when puppy is still very young. If you carry your puppy close to you and take her to the store and running errands I don't think that's a bad idea either. I have a sling that I plan on using for that purpose.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

DogPaw said:


> Our bulldog was the same way. She didn't always play well with others and could be quite aggressive with other dogs. For the last 3 years she has been traveling with my husband when he is on the road. She has been exposed to so many dogs and is doing very well in not being aggressive towards them. She will be 6 years old next month.


Yep, our APBT has been male dog aggressive ever since he was a puppy(never neutered), and since I was so young, there was nothing I could do about it. His father and him got into a few fights while I was growing up, so we always kept him away from other dogs. Then I got my beagle(f) when I was about 12 and he started being okay with dogs again after being an only dog for a good 5 years. Now I recently got a GSD with my boyfriend and we wanted to break LK (my pitbull) of this aggression. Some parties outside with Kit (beagle) and Frag (GSD) have done wonders for him and we can now trust him to play off leash safely in the backyard with Frag (under supervision of course)


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> If you carry your puppy close to you and take her to the store and running errands I don't think that's a bad idea either. I have a sling that I plan on using for that purpose.


I'd love to hear more thoughts on this! This is what I plan to do with my pup. Is it generally regarded as safe/low-risk?


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

If you follow the link I posted in the fifth one, there are some very good techniques for giving your young puppy the exposure to the human world it needs while reducing the chances of exposing it to disease. The sling sounds good. 

I have been carefully socializing a puppy starting at 7 weeks every year since 1991. I have never had a problem, and others doing the same seldom have problems.


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

While it's great that you want to socialize him, (and I'm sure I'm going to get jumped all over here) I think the idea of toting him around in a sling into stores is incredibly presumptuous and rude. *Unless* these are small places that you frequent and know people there who have given you permission, or places that SPECIFICALLY allow pets or have an open pet policy, your animal does not need to go into the store with you. 

I've been in retail management for years and most stores insurance is voided in regard to anything that may happen with the pet, owner, and any third parties at the very least if you bring an unauthorized animal onto premises. This means anything that is not an assistance or guide animal needs to stay out. This is still effected even if you never put the animal on the ground in most cases. In addition, pets are typically strictly forbidden from any sort of place that sells food - even if they are being carried.

Some peoples' allergies are also triggered in the same area as a dog or cat, even if the person doesn't touch them (especially if the pet is nervous or excited, shedding, hot and worked up, etc.). While this may seem like "not a big deal", for some people it is quite unpleasant.

In addition, depending on how well potty-trained the puppy is, if he gets excited and starts straining against you to get down because he wants to see everything, this could cause him to inadvertently lose control of his bladder, leaving a mess for you or others to clean up in an area that isn't yours/particaulrly approved for animals.

By all means, take him to places where they are allowed, carry him or put them in the cart out of sniffing/licking distance to pet stores and to friends that you know, carry him around at outside shopping centers/strip malls if you want to have him see people, etc. Please don't be disrespectful to others by taking him indoors at places that don't cater to pets without permission from someone in charge though.


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

i really don't understand why there is so much fuss on socializing dogs in this thread. there's no need to tote your dog around in a bag or in a sling -- it's just silly. do things the proper way and get your animal vaccinated and socialize him with other animals afterward.

don't make a mountain out of a mole-hill. waiting an extra month or more ensuring he's protected against all canine diseases/viruses will not hurt his demeanor or turn him aggressive. that's just silly.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

Jax said:


> While it's great that you want to socialize him, (and I'm sure I'm going to get jumped all over here) I think the idea of toting him around in a sling into stores is incredibly presumptuous and rude. *Unless* these are small places that you frequent and know people there who have given you permission, or places that SPECIFICALLY allow pets or have an open pet policy, your animal does not need to go into the store with you.
> 
> I've been in retail management for years and most stores insurance is voided in regard to anything that may happen with the pet, owner, and any third parties at the very least if you bring an unauthorized animal onto premises. This means anything that is not an assistance or guide animal needs to stay out. This is still effected even if you never put the animal on the ground in most cases. In addition, pets are typically strictly forbidden from any sort of place that sells food - even if they are being carried.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you. I would never take my puppy into a store unless it was a pet store (and she isnt vacinated so I wont) My husband has allergies and while I doubt his would be triggered by a dog in a sling...what if someone else had worse allergies. Service dogs are the exception, they are legally allowed to be in the store...someones puppy or other dog, No.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

I wasn't even thinking of taking my pup into stores - I don't think I said such a thing? I live near a large outdoor "strip mall" type thing (an old-fashioned town square) where lots of folks walk and window-shop.


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

nekomi said:


> I wasn't even thinking of taking my pup into stores - I don't think I said such a thing? I live near a large outdoor "strip mall" type thing (an old-fashioned town square) where lots of folks walk and window-shop.


heck, stand outside walmart for 20 minutes once a week. your pup will be fawned over like no other there and get accustomed to strangers very quickly if you're looking for human socialization.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

That's a good idea too, thanks! But yeah, human socialization is what I'm going for with the sling... she is getting lots of doggy socialization here at home with my crazies.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

nekomi said:


> I wasn't even thinking of taking my pup into stores - I don't think I said such a thing? I live near a large outdoor "strip mall" type thing (an old-fashioned town square) where lots of folks walk and window-shop.


The person that you quoted said they were going to take their dog to the store and running errands...while it wasnt clearly stated going into stores, thats the impression we (I)got from the " to the store and running errands" cant really do this from the outside.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Oh OK, gotcha. Missed that in the part I quoted. I was more interested in information regarding the safety of using a sling/carrier to prevent disease (as opposed to walking the pup on the ground).


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

To clarify about my post:

1) It was a general "please don't take your puppy into stores that are not made for them" post.
2) It was mostly in reply to the person who said they were going to take their pup "shopping and when I run errands" or something to that effect - in which case I would assume the goal in running errands is to go in the store and get things, which would mean the puppy would either have to go in or be left unattended in the car. Most people just getting a puppy don't think about this, or the fact that they can't just pick it up and hold it and walk in with it. So I was trying to point out that personally I think this is rude and froma legal standpoint is often a no go (unless you have a service animal).

I specifically suggested strip malls and think that's a great idea, as long as you're cautious and DON'T overdo the time - as the previous poster said, 20 minutes or a half an hour is more than enough at once for a puppy.

Was not trying to offend anyone.


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## Jax (Feb 14, 2010)

LOL at my timing - Misty read my mind


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

Yes, sometimes it is too easy to misunderstand somebody else's post. Jax is 100% right about not taking pets in where they aren't welcome, but I didn't see nikomi's post as suggesting that. If so, I would have objected. 

There are some stores that do permit pets. Avoid them. You need people now. Other dogs can wait. 

I don't see why some people don't understand the importance of introducing dogs to the world of people. There is a reason why I can take it in a restaurant on my way home with a 7 week old.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

No one said we didn't understand the importance of it, just that there's NO importance to doing so in such a specific time period. All it does is compromise the health of your dog. It shouldn't be worth it. If it is, I honestly would question your motive for owning a dog. If you're a decent pet parent and have the dedication/will, you don't need to do all of that before 12 weeks.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I take my papillon into lots of stores (and I plan to do the same with my next puppy). If the store has uncovered food or a no dogs sign, obviously I don't take her in there. If there is no sign, I will ask the first employee I see. Some stores are fine with a dog on a leash, some require you carry it, and some don't allow dogs at all. As long as you ask first and leave politely if they deny your dog entry, I don't think it's a big deal.

The ladies at my bank and a handbag store downtown absolutely love my dog, and a clerk at a home supplies store told me she would rather see dogs coming than kids, because most of them are better-behaved. I find that dogs are welcome more often that not (especially small dogs and puppies).

I'm getting my pup soon. I plan to socialize him with people and with friends' dogs who I know are healthy and up-to-date on their shots until he's had his vaccinations, and then we'll enroll in puppy socialization class. Yeah, I would like to get him used to strange dogs earlier, and I do worry about missing that early socialization window, but I worry a lot more about parvo (there are many cases here thanks to this waste of space -- here's a follow-up). You really just have to weigh your options and make the decision that's best for you based on your pup's temperament and your own concerns. It would be a good idea to ask your vet what he or she thinks, too -- parvo is more common in some areas than in others. Good luck with your new pup.


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> I take my papillon into lots of stores (and I plan to do the same with my next puppy). If the store has uncovered food or a no dogs sign, obviously I don't take her in there. If there is no sign, I will ask the first employee I see. Some stores are fine with a dog on a leash, some require you carry it, and some don't allow dogs at all. As long as you ask first and leave politely if they deny your dog entry, I don't think it's a big deal.
> 
> The ladies at my bank and a handbag store downtown absolutely love my dog, and a clerk at a home supplies store told me she would rather see dogs coming than kids, because most of them are better-behaved. I find that dogs are welcome more often that not (especially small dogs and puppies).
> 
> I'm getting my pup soon. I plan to socialize him with people and with friends' dogs who I know are healthy and up-to-date on their shots until he's had his vaccinations, and then we'll enroll in puppy socialization class. Yeah, I would like to get him used to strange dogs earlier, and I do worry about missing that early socialization window, but I worry a lot more about parvo (there are many cases here thanks to this waste of space -- here's a follow-up). You really just have to weigh your options and make the decision that's best for you based on your pup's temperament and your own concerns. It would be a good idea to ask your vet what he or she thinks, too -- parvo is more common in some areas than in others. Good luck with your new pup.


i wouldn't socialize my unvaccinated puppy with dogs regardless if they're up-to-date or not. many dogs can be silent carriers of parvovirus or it can merely be transmitted by soil. parvo vaccines are MLV (live) and are also excreted through recently vaccinated dog's feces.

there is no reason to risk anything. i've been through parvo and it's something i'm going to stress for people until the day i croak. it's not worth it. a few month "window" will not make a difference, hence why your pup was kept with it's litter for 8 weeks.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Do you think it will be enough to socialize the pup with my current dog and my brother's dog (who visits nearly every day) until he's has had all of his vaccinations? Truthfully, I don't care if he loves all other dogs (I never go to dog parks) or human strangers as long as he's not afraid of them or aggressive towards them. (I am also somewhat skeptical of the idea that I NEED to socialize him with strange dogs during that 8-12 week window, but I haven't read enough about it yet to argue either way.) The breed I'm getting is prone to extreme shyness, so my only concern is that he might need to be socialized more than other breeds, and that this early socialization may be more important.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> No one said we didn't understand the importance of it, just that there's NO importance to doing so in such a specific time period. All it does is compromise the health of your dog. It shouldn't be worth it. If it is, I honestly would question your motive for owning a dog. If you're a decent pet parent and have the dedication/will, you don't need to do all of that before 12 weeks.


Do you have anything to base the above on besides the limited experience of one person and conjecture? It is at odds with all the behavioral studies and extensive real work experience.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> Do you have anything to base the above on besides the limited experience of one person and conjecture? It is at odds with all the behavioral studies and extensive real work experience.


I don't. I like to believe that my not so limited expriences and those of ALMOST everyone I know around here (no one ever socializes there dogs, period) shows a pretty good trend about how dogs don't need to be socialized within that time frame and wind up perfectly balanced, healthy, and respectable of people, kids, dogs, cats, etc. 

I would honestly, (and may, in fact) like to do my own study on this, as I am extremely confident I would not end up with a misfit. Obviously there are multiple variables with this, but I would try to limit them as much as possible. Two puppies, same litter, same gender, same time. One with socialization before 12 weeks, the other after. We'll see how they end up.


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## DogPaw (Jan 11, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> Do you think it will be enough to socialize the pup with my current dog and my brother's dog (who visits nearly every day) until he's has had all of his vaccinations? Truthfully, I don't care if he loves all other dogs (I never go to dog parks) or human strangers as long as he's not afraid of them or aggressive towards them. (I am also somewhat skeptical of the idea that I NEED to socialize him with strange dogs during that 8-12 week window, but I haven't read enough about it yet to argue either way.) The breed I'm getting is prone to extreme shyness, so my only concern is that he might need to be socialized more than other breeds, and that this early socialization may be more important.


What kind of pup are you getting?

Most all of my dogs were not exposed to the outside world befor 12 weeks and I can tell you that they were all very confident well mannered dogs when taken out into public. I see nothing wrong with your brother and his dog coming over to play. Although you should care if he likes other dogs, it just makes life so much easier if your dog gets along with others.

But if you don't feel comfortable taking your dog out until after he has had his shots then don't. Don't let someone tell you that if you don't get your pup out between 6 and 12 weeks your dog is ruined and won't be able to function out in public is just bull.


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