# wolf dogs



## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

i have always wanted a wolf dog.. i have always loved wolves since i was a kid in elementary. theyve been my idol for a decade! ive researched and found that wolf dogs come in a variety of "levels" and "wolfy personality".. i concluded that id want a low-blood wolfdog, like the daughter of two wolfdogs from a long line of domesticated wolves and huskies/german shepherds.

but i bring this up to my friends and they all act like said im adopting a wolverine!

i dont plan on this adoption for at LEAST 7-8 years, probably 10. that should give me ample time for my daughter to grow up, winston to mature [yea right, like that would happen ever!], and to research a breeder that meets all my high standards.

what do you guys think of wolfdogs? what do you think of adopting a wolfdog? one with very diluted wolf blood?

my friends all tell me to just get a husky or a malamute. but i dont like the classic masked face and they just.. dont look all too wolfy, really. i had a friend who had an "alaskan malamute". now HE looked like a wolf. but im pretty positive it was because he DID have wolf in him. i think i have a picture i can dig up if anyone is curious and wants to debunk or prove my theory.


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm going to let others jump in here, but before I do, I suggest you take a look at the wolf-dog topics on this forum. And spend the next few years thinking very critically about why you want a wolf-dog.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Why do you want a wolf/dog hybrid? If it is because of looks alone, you are going about this the wrong way. 

I am going to leave the partculars to people who have more experience, but, choosing on looks and because you have always liked wolves is not the right reason to get a wolf/dog hybrid.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

There are quite a few threads on this forum about them. Use the search feature and read through them.


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

no, its not just for the looks. its a mixture between wanting something different or a challenge [hence the waiting] and spirituality. i know how unpredictable they can be, how they can run away for weeks, howl, be either aggressive or dangerously timid.. which is why i want one with low blood from a very "doggy" line of wolfdogs.. and i wouldnt get a puppy. not too old, but old enough so the personality of the dog can be confirmed. im not stupid.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

krystina alayne said:


> no, its not just for the looks. its a mixture between wanting something different or a challenge [hence the waiting] and spirituality. i know how unpredictable they can be, how they can run away for weeks, howl, be either aggressive or dangerously timid.. which is why i want one with low blood from a very "doggy" line of wolfdogs.. and i wouldnt get a puppy. not too old, but old enough so the personality of the dog can be confirmed. im not stupid.


No one said you were stupid. I asked because you simply mentioned that you had liked them since elementary school. 

Owning a hybrid is not for everyone. As has been suggested, search on the forums and you will find a lot of information.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

I had two proven wolf hybrids when I was growing up. A father and son, that were 75% Timber Wolf and 25% Alaskan Malamute. They aren't like any dogs you will ever have. I loved them to death, but they are often _wild_ and out of control, despite training. The two we had were unbelievable escape artists and could get out of their kennel easily. They were leary of strangers, and very VERY noisy. Not to mention keeping up on grooming was impossible.

Still, I miss them.


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

i know you didnt call me stupid  im just putting that out there before you do. i know some people who want wolfdogs too. because theyre coooool! and they howl like real wolves!!


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

75% wolf? daang.. thats crazy.. and dangerous lol. im looking for the opposite. NO MORE than 25%.. and again, an older pup or adult.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Another popcorn post


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

sorry, im new here. i didnt figure to search through old threads. thats the thing about being an "oldie"..you see a lot of the same stuff over and over.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Very few people- VERY few- have any business owning a hybrid. I'm not sure breeding wolves even can be ethical. Wolves are wild animals, to breed and own them . . . 

If you like the look, there are dogs bred specifically to look like wolves. As to a challenge, get a shelter dog with behavior issues. Muggsy, my old dog, was one. I loved him, he was my best friend, but that was 12 years of struggle and worry. And spirituality? Yeesh, don't involve wild animals in your spiritual quests. They're not here to fulfill your spiritual needs. 

I'm not trying to be rude, but wolf hybrids make me sad. Some people can do well by them, but mostly, it's a creature with competing instincts at the most basic level that belongs neither here nor there.


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## Alerondogs (Mar 23, 2011)

Wolf Park's info is worth reading:

http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfhybridarticles.shtml


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you have any sort of ideas that it might be possible for your wolf/dog mix to "run away for weeks" (or even for a few minutes), please don't get one. Proper containment is the wolf/dog owner's biggest responsibility.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Willowy said:


> If you have any sort of ideas that it might be possible for your wolf/dog mix to "run away for weeks" (or even for a few minutes), please don't get one. Proper containment is the wolf/dog owner's biggest responsibility.


Yes. I was thinking about the right way to word this.

Wolf hybrids require a special type of fencing in order to safely contain them. A normal backyard fence won't cut it.


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## Alerondogs (Mar 23, 2011)

There are also a lot of breeds that are very wolf-y but are not hybrids. I think one of these would probably suit most people's need for a "wolfdog". A huge advantage of these breeds is you don't have the legal issues involved in owning a hybrid and you're getting something with a much more predictable temperament.

Tamaskan


















Czech Wolfdog


















Saarloos Wolfdog (seem the most "wolf-y" to me):



















Not to mention the nordic breeds that can look quite wolf-y and certainly are independent enough to be a challenge 

Siberian Husky, agouti colored


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## Alerondogs (Mar 23, 2011)

Alaskan Malamute, agouti colored


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't know much about wolf hybrids other than I would never own one.

If you want something that still looks wolfy and seems to me, from what I've read, to be a great dog, maybe look up Tamaskans? They were bred to look like wolves but they are all dog. Certainly not a dog for everyone, of course, but you've got time to research.

Also, they're a newer breed, so they might be harder to come by. Stay away from Right Puppy kennels.

Edit: Whoops, Aleron beat me to it.


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

czech wolfdogs have wolf in them, from what i researched. that was actually my first option. timber wolf and german shepherd dog cross.

how rare/expensive are agouti-colored malamutes or a tamaskan? 

in my state, it is legal to own a wolf hybrid. and part of wanting a wolfdog is spiritual, so i really want wolf blood in it or it defeats the metaphysical purpose, you know?

and of course i will research the breeder who i get ANY future pets from to make sure they are up to my high standards and not a puppy mill. some of my expectations are that the puppies are breastfed and weaned naturally, and given a grain-free food or fed raw. none of that ol'roy crap winston got for his first food.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I guess I don't understand the spiritual or metaphysical benefits to keeping a wolf (or wolf mix) in captivity. What's up with that? 

Make sure you look into all the legalities (even if the state allows them, the municipality or county may not), what kind of permits you need, etc. Find out if you're allowed to build a 12-foot fence where you live (zoning laws frequently don't allow fences over 6 feet), find a good supplier of raw meat, and be sure to find a vet that will treat a wolf mix _before_ you get the animal (a lot of vets won't). Research their dietary needs, containment requirements, medical considerations, and what age to spay/neuter. 

You can also look into rescue. A ton of wolf/dogs end up in rescue because their owners weren't ready for them.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

wvasko said:


> Another popcorn post


Ah, the wise man has spoken. I'll pop enough for both of us...opcorn: opcorn:


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## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

Please explain to me, what metaphysical purpose a wolfdog has.

If you love wolf dogs so much, why would you want to sentence one to life in a heavily fenced environment - because that is the only way to keep them from running. And it will very probably make them crazy, since a wolf is not meant to be caged, but meant to run free.

What you want is a dog to satisfy your ego, not some spiritual yearning. By caging an animal that is meant to roam free, you are doing exactly the opposite of something spiritual.


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## minihart (Feb 14, 2011)

lisaj1354 said:


> Please explain to me, what metaphysical purpose a wolfdog has.
> 
> If you love wolf dogs so much, why would you want to sentence one to life in a heavily fenced environment - because that is the only way to keep them from running. And it will very probably make them crazy, since a wolf is not meant to be caged, but meant to run free.
> 
> What you want is a dog to satisfy your ego, not some spiritual yearning. By caging an animal that is meant to roam free, you are doing exactly the opposite of something spiritual.


Agreed. Interested to know what the OP's response is.


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

Amaryllis said:


> Very few people- VERY few- have any business owning a hybrid. I'm not sure breeding wolves even can be ethical. Wolves are wild animals, to breed and own them . . .
> 
> If you like the look, there are dogs bred specifically to look like wolves. As to a challenge, get a shelter dog with behavior issues. Muggsy, my old dog, was one. I loved him, he was my best friend, but that was 12 years of struggle and worry. And spirituality? Yeesh, don't involve wild animals in your spiritual quests. They're not here to fulfill your spiritual needs.
> 
> I'm not trying to be rude, but wolf hybrids make me sad. Some people can do well by them, but mostly, it's a creature with competing instincts at the most basic level that belongs neither here nor there.


I couldn't agree more. I think wolves are majestic creatures and because of that could never own one or even a low-content hybrid. To me that is like saying you love art and then walking into a museum and spraypainting: 'Insert name was here!' all over them. To me that isn't proving you love them. That's ruining them. If you want to prove you love wolves and wolf dogs then get a job at a zoo or do some fostering or volunteer work for a hybrid rescue organization.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It seems to me that being captive would make the wolf's spirit very cranky. The metaphysical effects would appear to me to be mostly negative. But I don't know much about that particular spiritual belief so there may be an angle I'm not thinking of.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I think wolfdogs or ones that resemble them are cool looking, that being said....they're not for everyone. I hear a lot about them. They retain their wildness in them, don't know whether to live with a pack or with humans, they're intelligent, a bit aggressive sometimes, do not always follow commands, will dig, howl, etc. I would really think hard about this before you commit to getting one in 10yrs or so. 

Besides the Tamaskan and others that were mentioned; there's also the: 
Utonagan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utonagan 
Northern Inuit Dog: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Inuit_Dog Pictures: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/northerninuitdog.htm
Native American Indian Dog: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nativeamericanindiandog.htm
Mackenzie River Husky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackenzie_River_Husky

Hey just found this: http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/wolfdogs/a/wolfdogs.htm 
Hope it helps. Good luck if you get one in the distant future.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

opcorn:
I have nothing to add here, I just want to get updates on this thread.
I will say that I"m curious about the metaphysical/spiritually thing.
Can't you volunteer at a zoo for a while? They usually have wolves.​


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## pkelley (Feb 10, 2012)

How sad that for your ego/needs you want a wolf hybrid that meets YOUR needs. Because of the metaphysical and their "look". My neighbor next door has two hybrids and they are the saddest looking creatures I have ever seen. All you have to do is look in their eyes. What a disservice to this animal who is usually in never never land...dogs in the park run from the hybrid and will not engage. Owners of other dogs grab their pooches and flee the area due to the aggressiveness. How awful if the dog gets loose, what...to hang out with coyotes and get chewed to pieces...or worse to get hit by cars and die roadside??? How terrible to confine them...even if they have what you are calling a "low level" of wolf...they still have the temperament. I don't "get" your need and believe it is self centered and attention seeking, not for the love of the animal itself. 
I have never written a negative comment in this forum but maybe some counseling, or better yet, some work in a volunteer dog shelter might change your mind. Have you ever been bitten? Or or you going to beat the wolf temperament spirit out of them so it will comply? I just don't get you.


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

krystina alayne said:


> czech wolfdogs have wolf in them, from what i researched. that was actually my first option. timber wolf and german shepherd dog cross.
> 
> how rare/expensive are agouti-colored malamutes or a tamaskan?
> 
> ...


I think for a Tamaskan you might have to bring one over from UK/Europe. Not sure. I think there is another user here more familiar with the breed. I can't speak to how common agouti huskies/malamutes are, but I bet you could find some in rescue, since black masks seem to be the current popular color.

I would also like to politely ask you to explain this spiritual/metaphysical purpose?

Technically, dogs are the same species as wolves. Could factoring that in help meet these needs?


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm quite interested in this thread...

Also - for Agouti's you'd have to find a breeder who breeds specifically for color (not a very ethical breeder IMO) but Agouti's aren't exactly "rare" in either breed (and wouldn't listen to anyone who tells you they are or ask for more money for a "rare" color. The same goes for those Mackenzie River Huskies)


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## pkelley (Feb 10, 2012)

Again, only humans will break the spirit of an animal to meet selfish needs; to break the spirit of an animal to meet your metaphysical needs or lack of spirituality is just unbelievable. If you need to get your "spiritual" needs met try religion or go camping in the winter in a coyote/mountain lion infested area. I hear Arizona and Montana are great spots for this. Your post is very disturbing...hmmm...you say you won't get one in about 10 years...are you seeking attention from all of us animal lovers...just a thought.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

You mentioned in another post your boyfriend is native. What does he think of this? This goes against just about every thing most native folk believe.


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## pkelley (Feb 10, 2012)

Hi Forum members,
I have come to the conclusion the person who wants a wolf dog is looking for attention....the more we respond the more attention he/she gains... I for one will not respond again to this post.


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## Alerondogs (Mar 23, 2011)

krystina alayne said:


> czech wolfdogs have wolf in them, from what i researched. that was actually my first option. timber wolf and german shepherd dog cross.


 Tamaskans are pretty uncommon. It's probably easier to find a Czech Wolfdog or Saarloos (which also has wolf in the foundation). Those breeds were founded on using wolf hybrids but they are a developed breed and are no longer outcrossed to wolves. Still if for whatever reason you "need" something with wolf blood for spiritual reasons or whatever, dogs of those breeds do have wolf in their pedigrees somewhere. But behaviorally, they will have much more predictable temperament traits due to generations of selective breeding than buying someone's GSD/Wolf mixes. And they may look more consistently "wolf-y" than some very low percentage hybrids. 

All that said, you probably should consider the exotic animal trade since you say you have high standards for where your puppy comes from. You are much more likely to find the sort of breeder you are looking for if you opt for one of the less common, "wolf-y" breeds. There is absolutely a question of ethics when you start looking into wild animals as pets. I had a captive bred skunk and can tell you, they are pretty much bred for money on a large scale. Even if you find a breeder who breeds on a smaller scale, their breeding stock came from commercial breeders. The same with captive bred foxes and raccoons. And my guess is, captive bred wolves. My skunk came to me second hand. His breeder was a USDA licensed wholesale seller of exotic animals. He traveled all around Ohio every week with a truck full of exotic animals selling them at trade shows and flea markets. He also sold puppies and small domestic animals but the exotics were his main "thing". Any given week at the flea market, you'd see him set up with baby skunks, raccoons, opossums, foxes and wolves. He told people that getting a wolf was "just like getting a dog" and "if you treat them like a Lab, they act like a Lab". This is the reality of how and why many captive bred undomesticated animals are bred and sold. I'm not one to call for outlawing things and I do think people should be allowed to own whatever they want, providing they can properly care for the animal. But there is certainly an ethical question involved with the exotic animal trade. 

And if you're looking at this as some sort of "spiritual journey", what would it mean to have a hybrid who's only a generation or two removed from a captive bred wolf who was kept pen it's whole life? 

Really, what having a pet skunk taught me was that wild animals aren't popular as pets for a reason. I couldn't really imagine attempting to have a larger predator type wild animal as a pet. Definitely read the Wolf Park info I linked to earlier. 

You also may want to check out the book/blog "The Daily Coyote" about someone who raised an orphaned Coyote. The story is not biased one way or another, it tells the good and the bad.



Niraya said:


> I'm quite interested in this thread...
> 
> Also - for Agouti's you'd have to find a breeder who breeds specifically for color (not a very ethical breeder IMO) but Agouti's aren't exactly "rare" in either breed


 I don't think that's true. I know a local Sibe breeder here who has an agouti male from half show, half racing lines. She certainly isn't breeding specifically for color. I also met an agouti racing bred Sibe at a dog show last year and don't think that dog was bred for color either. That said, a breeder shouldn't charge a bunch more for an agouti just based on the color.


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## Alerondogs (Mar 23, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Native American Indian Dog: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nativeamericanindiandog.htm


 I'd stay far, far away from these dogs although some are beautiful!


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Siberian's were also founded and bred quite often with wolves by the Chukchi people.



Alerondogs said:


> I don't think that's true. I know a local Sibe breeder here who has an agouti male from half show, half racing lines. She certainly isn't breeding specifically for color. I also met an agouti racing bred Sibe at a dog show last year and don't think that dog was bred for color either. That said, a breeder shouldn't charge a bunch more for an agouti just based on the color.


Well maybe you have better luck than I do. I haven't found many (any) agouti at shows here - and just looking at random breeder sites through google (for no reason) all of the ones that had agouti's were breeding specifically for "rare" colors.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

Niraya said:


> Siberian's were also founded and bred quite often with wolves by the Chukchi people.
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have better luck than I do. I haven't found many (any) agouti at shows here - and just looking at random breeder sites through google (for no reason) all of the ones that had agouti's were breeding specifically for "rare" colors.


From what I have researched, Agouti Sibes are much more popular in racing lines because when you are breeding for racing potential you don't care what color the dog is, thus a lot more different types of colors pop up, like agouti. Agouti Sibes don't generally do well in show circles, at least not outside the breed club shows. Although all colors are technically accepted the racing type agouti Sibes have a much more racey physique than a show Sibe so they don't generally do well. When you watch AKC/UKC Sibes in conformation you see a lot of the red/white, black/white, gray/white because back when the breed starting being split between showing and racing lines, the breeders in the show rings preferred a dog with symmetrical and more "pretty" markings. At least, this is how I understand it. 

Agouti Sibes show up commonly in racing lines, but in show lines it is almost all but gone (from what I have seen). There are people putting agouti Sibes in shows and getting a Ch on them but usually it is through the breed club because they are, from what was explained to me, more familiar with the breed's history, intended purpose, and are more open to these more unusual colors. 



Alerondogs said:


> I don't think that's true. I know a local Sibe breeder here who has an agouti male from half show, half racing lines. She certainly isn't breeding specifically for color. I also met an agouti racing bred Sibe at a dog show last year and don't think that dog was bred for color either. That said, a breeder shouldn't charge a bunch more for an agouti just based on the color.


Was this agouti Sibe being shown in AKC/UKC or within the breed club, Aleron? There are definitely people mixing the racing/showing lines to create very pretty and very driven dogs that can work and be shown, but of course, it is slow going. Again though, this was just how it was explained to me by a breeder. 

There are people breeding agouti Sibes for profit, I'm sure. There are also merle Sibes popping up too.

While an agouti Sibe has a similar look to a wolf/wolfdog, getting a well bred agouti Sibe generally means getting a dog from racing lines. I don't know many good breeders who would sell a Sibe from racing lines to a person who just wants to have a cool looking dog. Not a good fit, unless this cool looking dog is going to be heavily worked in front of a sled. 

Sorry to kind of get off topic.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks Nil <3


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Alerondogs--I only named them because people were bring up wolf alike dogs, so that's another one I thought of. Maybe I shouldn't have put them up because I don't know much about them. I just remembered they resembled wolves, so I put up a link explaining them.

Niraya--what's wrong with Mackenzie River Huskies? I know they're not a purebred, more of a concoction of breeds together to make this one up. But you acted like, and tell me if I'm wrong here, as if she should stay away from the breed. I'm just curious as to why you said that....that's all. ??


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

You do realize, that you would be condemning this animal to a life in a cage, right? You can't just have this wolf hybrid in your house like a normal dog. There are specific rules to handling them, even the smallest of percentage (which can still have wild tendencies). 

As I remember natives believe wild animals should be free not in cages, so I am confused by your spirituality/metaphysical notion.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Niraya--what's wrong with Mackenzie River Huskies? I know they're not a purebred, more of a concoction of breeds together to make this one up. But you acted like, and tell me if I'm wrong here, as if she should stay away from the breed. I'm just curious as to why you said that....that's all. ??


Not being purebred really has nothing to do with it . The "breed" is a concoction of a bunch of other breeds - including breeds that are either no longer around or breeds that are too few and far between. Since people who are breeding these "freighting Huskies" refuse to talk about how they're getting their so called Mackenzie's - the Mackenzie River Husky to my knowledge are extinct and people now try to use the name and sell Malamute/Husky mixes as "Mackenzie River Huskies" in order to sell the puppies for a much higher price. I've even seen people claim Mackenzie River Huskies to be a "very very rare subspecies of wolf that people know very little to nothing about" X_X. Again, Just Malamute/Husky or German Shepherd/Husky/Malamute mixes etc etc.


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## a7dk (Mar 30, 2011)

Just replying to get updates on the thread. Very interesting. OP - if you return please do elaborate on the spiritual significance.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Actually I'd say a few of our posts after the OP's last have been helpful - as to some insight into the northern breeds and other breeds that appear "wolf-like" and can be traced back to breedings done with wolves.

I'd also venture a guess that since it is Wednesday the OP went to sleep last night and went to work this morning/today and hasn't gotten a chance to check email/forums.
Now - if the post was four or five days or older and no reply I'd say the OP didn't much care for our thoughts or advice but less than a day? =/ I would think that's a bit jumping the gun.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Niraya--that's interesting that they are extinct and people pretend to breed these dogs for money. So are all husky mixes like that, like the Sakhalin Husky and Labrador Husky?

Besides the Tamaskan, don't forget about the Utonagan too. And definitely read up about keeping a wolf dog as I hear/read that it's illegal in some areas. You would have to check with your laws if you're allowed to have one. I saw one at a kennel years ago, but I will swear to this day she was pure wolf. I say no trace of dog within her, but to keep a wolf is illegal too (unless it's a rehab place).


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Willowy said:


> You can also look into rescue. A ton of wolf/dogs end up in rescue because their owners weren't ready for them.


I can vouch for that! 
We get them fairly frequently at the rescue ranch from sanctuaries that simply have no space. Why? Because too many folks out there want a wolfdog because it's different. They soon find out that little puppy grows into something they weren't quite expecting and are not prepared for so they dump them. Sanctuaries and rescues are overflowing with them.
We have 2 at the ranch right now. One has been there for 2yrs, and he's low content, the other, who is mid to high content, for 1yr. No suitable home has been found for either.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Niraya--that's interesting that they are extinct and people pretend to breed these dogs for money. So are all husky mixes like that, like the Sakhalin Husky and Labrador Husky?


Not EVERYONE (just most) who breeds the so called "Mackenzie River Huskies" breeds them for money - there's a couple kennels in Alaska who claim to have them and breed them but they use them as recreational sled dogs, basically.

I don't know anything about and never heard of the Sakhalin Husky but I don't think so. Just from doing a quick search they say they descended from Japanese Spitz and Akitas. Though the history of the breed is pretty poorly documented it seems and they are hardly known outside of Japan. They're a bit larger than a purebred Siberian and looks to be just it's own breed from what I've read not a mix at all. 
Also - The movie Eight Below was "supposedly" to have been based on an expedition the Japanese did that used Sakhalin Huskies. But in the movie they used Malamutes and Siberians.

Looking up the Labrador Husky because again I know nothing about it or even heard of it - I can't make many comments on it being purebred or not. They openly admit to adding Malamutes and German Shepherd to the supposed "pure" Labrador Husky line but other than that - it's another one of those "the breeds history isn't well documented" type things. 

At least that's what I've found looking around and looking at pictures of the supposed "purebred" Labrador Huskies they just look Malamutes or Malamute mixes to me. They claim the dogs are more "wolf-like" but I don't see it. At least in the pictures I saw. So I couldn't make an as definitive conclusion as to whether or not the Labrador Husky is a purebred and not just a mix.

Sorry Spirit, I'm pretty useless .


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Are there tamaskan breeders in the US? I have only been able to find one. That one is located in the Carolinas I believe. Never contacted them, only visited the website. As far as the Czek wolfdog none can be located in the US. The Saarloos breeders do not exist in the US? I am only doing this because I was interested in these breeds. No, not getting one. I am dogged out. I have also heard/read about the Utongan(sp?) Just like to keep up about dog breeds. Very interesting about the agouti color. Anybody interested in a breed of dog, should look at their lifestyle first. Then look at different types of dogs that match their lifestyle.


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## MusherChic (Nov 6, 2010)

To OP,

I honestly think you would be better off getting a husky. Some Siberians and Malamutes can be very "wolfy" looking ~ along with Alaskan Huskies. You said you wanted a challenge if I remember correctly?
Trust me ~ a husky WILL GIVE you a challenge. They're not an easy breed to own. That's coming from someone who owns 6 of them...

If, however, you are dead set on getting a wolf dog, I suggest rescuing rather than going to a breeder. I really feel that "wolf dogs" should not be bred, but because they are there a lot of them in need of homes as people get them for reasons like you have stated, realize they can't handle them and give them up. 
Please ~ adopt one with the intention of saving it's life from the euthanasia needle/giving it a better life rather than satisfying your spiritual needs, ego, or whatever. 

If it's possible for you, you might want to volunteer at a zoo or a wolf dog sanctuary and get some experience under your belt before you bring a wolf dog home.


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

MusherChic said:


> If it's possible for you, you might want to volunteer at a zoo or a wolf dog sanctuary and get some experience under your belt before you bring a wolf dog home.



Great advice!


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

I agree with the statements before. I own an not really wolf looking like mal but I love her. As being a seasoned owner, I don't feel I could handle anything more than a Northern breed. Don't get me wrong I would love a wolfdog but not right now. I volunteer at a wolf dog rescue. We adopt to serious owners. Some of the owners have had huskies and malamutes for years and wanted to get a wolfdog. I don't recommend them to everyone, They are fun to be around though!


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

I don't consider most people able to keep up with the demands of a husky let alone a wolf hybrid! I mean its pretty messed up to expect a wolfdog to live in a dogs world. They aren't meant for it, it would be like putting a human in a room or yard for most of their life except for a couple hours a day. A wolfdog demands a LOT of attention and while there is a member on the forum that does take in wolf hybrids and does a great job of it she is also a musher and understands the needs for them. She has dedicated a lot to get to that point and takes if very seriously, she is also very active with other wolfdog rescuers and established rescues. She doesn't keep them for spiritual reasons as far as I know. I hope she pipes in on this thread.


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## pkelley (Feb 10, 2012)

To the original poster;
Again, I think this issue is a moot point as this person is not even considering getting a wolf hybrid for 10 years...all our responses are a reaction to someone's fantasy of owning one....attention seeking behaviors. It really hit a lot of "nerves" , didn't it???!!!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

pkelley said:


> To the original poster;
> Again, I think this issue is a moot point as this person is not even considering getting a wolf hybrid for 10 years...all our responses are a reaction to someone's fantasy of owning one....attention seeking behaviors. It really hit a lot of "nerves" , didn't it???!!!


Who are you to say if the point is moot? Who are you to decide if the OP is attention seeking. I think that's MY JOB as a moderator.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

pkelley said:


> To the original poster;
> Again, I think this issue is a moot point as this person is not even considering getting a wolf hybrid for 10 years...all our responses are a reaction to someone's fantasy of owning one....attention seeking behaviors. It really hit a lot of "nerves" , didn't it???!!!


So...I spent several years researching Siberian Huskies - would you say all of that was fantasy?

I'm not exactly sure who or what you're referring to stating it "really hit a lot of nerves" Especially from someone who said they wouldn't be posting on the thread anymore


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

pkelley said:


> To the original poster;
> Again, I think this issue is a moot point as this person is not even considering getting a wolf hybrid for 10 years...all our responses are a reaction to someone's fantasy of owning one....attention seeking behaviors. It really hit a lot of "nerves" , didn't it???!!!


 It is true that situations change a lot in 10 years. By that time she could be living somewhere that doesn't allow wolfdogs, or the laws could change, or she might not want one anymore, etc. But even so, if she really does want one, 10 years is not too soon to start researching and making preparations.


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

:behindsofa:


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

krystina alayne said:


> czech wolfdogs have wolf in them, from what i researched. that was actually my first option. timber wolf and german shepherd dog cross.
> 
> how rare/expensive are agouti-colored malamutes or a tamaskan?
> 
> ...


Dogs can be very spiritual. There is no metaphysical advantage to owning a wolf dog. Now, cats . . . they can get very metaphysical.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Alerondogs said:


> I'd stay far, far away from these dogs although some are beautiful!


I actually have one in class at the moment. I don't know much about the breed, but he really is a nice dog. I had to point out to his owner that he was eyeing the westie pup like a lovely white bunny, and she needed to be aware of his prey drive any time he is around small dogs. I've also had a wolf hybrid in class. He was, I think, pretty high percentage, and an absolute mismatch for the family who had him.


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> I actually have one in class at the moment. I don't know much about the breed, but he really is a nice dog. I had to point out to his owner that he was eyeing the westie pup like a lovely white bunny, and she needed to be aware of his prey drive any time he is around small dogs. I've also had a wolf hybrid in class. He was, I think, pretty high percentage, and an absolute mismatch for the family who had him.


I agree with the prey drive part.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Niraya--no you helped a lot, thanks. 

I, too, agree with the prey drive. I actually forgot about it until Pawzk9 brought it up. When we had to bring in Tiffany, she was in a kennel at the time because her owner was in the hospital (and she was a wolfdog), and one of the workers there dragged a dog in front of her cage. I was panicking cause I heard wolves go after dogs (not sure if it's with wolfdogs, but anything could happen). She looked at the little dog as if he was food, but was intelligent enough not to come forward because she knew we were putting dogs in for the night. So yes, there is a prey drive there and an superb intelligence to back it up.


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## jenz (Aug 20, 2010)

> As far as the Czek wolfdog none can be located in the US.


The Czech Wolfdog is actually a FSS breed with the AKC- called the Czechoslovakian Vlcak. If you're interested in a wolfy-breed, check out the CV Club of America. They have a breeder referral link.

The Carpathian Wolf is part of the breed- I guess last bred-in in the mid 1960's. To the OP, I would think this would be a good compromise on a wolf dog for you!

Jen


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

krystina alayne said:


> 75% wolf? daang.. thats crazy.. and dangerous lol. im looking for the opposite. NO MORE than 25%.. and again, an older pup or adult.


Danger?? How so?? I own two wolfdogs that are around 98%, they are not dangerous.
Definately not for everyone though.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I believe the new term is called a 'wolfaboo'. Juvenile, I realize, but I believe it fits perfectly for this.
I think a simple solution to someone desiring a wolf-hybrid based on their need to confine what is supposed to be a wolf animal would be to look at how many wolves and wolf hybrids go into shelters or rescues and have to be put down. 

On the subject of dogs that look feral, the Jämthund is one of my favorite breeds. They seem like such good family pets.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Cindy--beautiful wolfdog you have there! I was wondering something, where is the dog in your wolfdog? I only ask because Tiffany looked like yours but darker and I was unable to tell where she looked like a dog. Thanks.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Pawzk9 said:


> I actually have one in class at the moment. I don't know much about the breed, but he really is a nice dog. I had to point out to his owner that he was eyeing the westie pup like a lovely white bunny, and she needed to be aware of his prey drive any time he is around small dogs. I've also had a wolf hybrid in class. He was, I think, pretty high percentage, and an absolute mismatch for the family who had him.


Prey drive is no higher in NAIDs than in other breeds and they can be trained like other breeds to be called off. They are dogs, not wolf dogs. If there is any % wolf it goes back so many generations as to be insignificant. There have been rumors that some of the original breeders bred wolf dogs to shepherds and northern mixes (all the breeders deny this), but no one outside that circle knows the truth. And still, it would have been many generations ago. Now if you want to say that too many have skittish personalities and/or stomach issues, and for that reason, I would advise caution in getting one, then I'm right there with you.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Most breeders who sell wolfdogs use wolves that were born into captivity and not in the wild. So that being the case why don't breeders try to breed out the shyness of their wolfdog. The reason I bring this up is based on a study done by scientist using foxes. This is the website I am referring to http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/03/taming-wild-animals/ratliff-text Just a thought and I wonder if it could be achieved.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

That study was being done by a scientist  That is the complete difference here. 

The only thing a person breeding a wolfdog cares about is how much money one of those puppies will bring in. They (usually) don't much care for the temperament of these animals. 

Scientists aren't breeding shyness out of wolves because - well - we already have wolves that are taking down farmers livestock and more and more wolves are being killed because of it. Hell I even read an article from a friend of mine saying that there is a bill being proposed to use dogs (and other "live bait") to lure wolves specifically to be shot.

The wild wolf population already suffers =/


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

winniec777 said:


> Prey drive is no higher in NAIDs than in other breeds and they can be trained like other breeds to be called off. They are dogs, not wolf dogs. If there is any % wolf it goes back so many generations as to be insignificant. There have been rumors that some of the original breeders bred wolf dogs to shepherds and northern mixes (all the breeders deny this), but no one outside that circle knows the truth. And still, it would have been many generations ago. Now if you want to say that too many have skittish personalities and/or stomach issues, and for that reason, I would advise caution in getting one, then I'm right there with you.


I never said they were wolf dogs. All I stated that the one in my class appears to have high prey drive (he's the only one I've met). However he is very appropriate and friendly with medium/large dogs and very smart.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

luv mi pets said:


> Most breeders who sell wolfdogs use wolves that were born into captivity and not in the wild. So that being the case why don't breeders try to breed out the shyness of their wolfdog. The reason I bring this up is based on a study done by scientist using foxes. This is the website I am referring to http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/03/taming-wild-animals/ratliff-text Just a thought and I wonder if it could be achieved.


What's the purpose? Isn't a dog a domesticated wolf? And in the fox study, the tamest foxes even had changes in their appearance, so it might be hard to retain the full wolfy look that would be the entire reason for having a domesticated wolf.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I know shyness is a big problem with the wolfdogs. Yes most breeders care more about looks than temperment. There has got to be a few who care about temperments too. I have no interest in breeding to find out if it can be achieved, just wanted to know if it could be done. A dog is a domesticated wolf. Some like the orginal poster are attracted to this type/look of this breed.

As far as the study being done by a scientist, some breeders know what they are doing and will breed dogs to get a certain trait. Some of these breeders have had great success in reaching their goal. 

I am not a breeder. All my animals are spayed or neutered. Fostered a few moms with litter of pups. House smelling like poopy pups. Waking up to whining/screaming pups. Coming home from work to clean and feed puppies. It was a lot of work. Some breeders want to do this and enjoy it. Not in my cards. I only did the foster thing to give pups a chance to get adopted.


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## abigail1989 (Nov 22, 2011)

I gotta say Cindy, regarding the pics a few posts up, stunningly beautiful. What a regal and breath taking animal


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## Alerondogs (Mar 23, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> I actually have one in class at the moment. I don't know much about the breed, but he really is a nice dog. I had to point out to his owner that he was eyeing the westie pup like a lovely white bunny, and she needed to be aware of his prey drive any time he is around small dogs. I've also had a wolf hybrid in class. He was, I think, pretty high percentage, and an absolute mismatch for the family who had him.


 That's great that the NAID you have in class is a good dog. Doing a search on them, I learned quite a lot of people have had issues with their's. I suspect the ones she crossed with the Belgian (that she lied to the breeder to obtain) are probably not the easy pets she claims them to be either, nor are they hypoallergenic. There's also some pretty bad stories about what happened to her higher percentage hybrids but I am not going to repeat them. If one wants to know, they can find out about her just like I did - Google  Or just email her, she had no trouble telling me that she misled a breeder into selling her a Belgian and that she knows the breeder can't do anything about it but no the breeder does not approve of her using the dog to create a designer breed. In fact, she seemed rather proud of it. My understanding is that all of the "real" NAIDs come from her or a breeder she approved. Otherwise she sells her puppies already S/N because she doesn't want people (people like her I suppose) lying about using them for breeding. I found out about her because someone semi-local bought a "Sibercaan" off of her. 

Now there is a totally separate breed called an I think an American Indian Dog that isn't in any way related to her or NAIDs. And I'm sure there's people breeding dogs they call NAIDs that have nothing to do with her, since they are not really a standardized breed.

So my issue with them has nothing to do with prey drive or that they were started with hybrids or possibly still have hybrids in their close pedigrees. It is that getting any factual information on them would be extremely difficult and that I question the ethics of the "breed" founder to the point where I would never, ever suggest one consider getting a puppy from her or any of her approved breeders.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Cindy--beautiful wolfdog you have there! I was wondering something, where is the dog in your wolfdog? I only ask because Tiffany looked like yours but darker and I was unable to tell where she looked like a dog. Thanks.


Do you have a picture of her? Selene, the one laying down getting her tummy rubbed, her ears are slightly to big


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

winniec777 said:


> Prey drive is no higher in NAIDs than in other breeds and they can be trained like other breeds to be called off. They are dogs, not wolf dogs. If there is any % wolf it goes back so many generations as to be insignificant. There have been rumors that some of the original breeders bred wolf dogs to shepherds and northern mixes (all the breeders deny this), but no one outside that circle knows the truth. And still, it would have been many generations ago. Now if you want to say that too many have skittish personalities and/or stomach issues, and for that reason, I would advise caution in getting one, then I'm right there with you.


The NAID were started by Majestic view Kennels in Michigan. The owner used to breed all contents of wolfdogs. Once they went illegal in Michigan, she shot all her higher content animals and kept the lower content animals and continued to breed them but switched the name over to NAIDs


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

luv mi pets said:


> Are there tamaskan breeders in the US? I have only been able to find one. That one is located in the Carolinas I believe. Never contacted them, only visited the website. As far as the Czek wolfdog none can be located in the US. The Saarloos breeders do not exist in the US?


I don't think you're going to find Saarloos breeders anywhere other than the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France and the UK. That's because until about 1-2 years ago, there was only one breed club in their country of origin (the Netherlands) and it did not allow a dog to be sold to anyone living farther than approximately 500 kilometers away from the Netherlands. In other words, it would have been very, very difficult (if not impossible) for anyone across the Atlantic to obtain a Saarloos Wolfdog. I do know that some people have been successful at importing them. Though I'm wondering whether most of the 'I have a Saarloos Wolfdog' claims in the US are actually legit or not. 

To OP: If you really want a wolf-y looking dog with some sort of 'wolf blood' in their veins, I'd suggest the Czech Wolfdog, as they have a breed club in the US and you therefor have a better chance at obtaining one than you have with the Saarloos. If you really just want a wolf-y looking dog, than you could look at huskies and Malamute (mixes). Lots of them have a wolf-y look to them, and I'm sure they are not uncommon in shelters and rescues.


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## lisahi (Jun 19, 2011)

Willowy said:


> What's the purpose? Isn't a dog a domesticated wolf? And in the fox study, the tamest foxes even had changes in their appearance, so it might be hard to retain the full wolfy look that would be the entire reason for having a domesticated wolf.


I think the issue with folks wanting wolfdogs is that they believe the two species are more alike than they actually are. The current grey wolf and the current domesticated dogs came from two lines that diverged so long ago that they bear almost no resemblence to each other socially, tempermentally, etc. Perhaps those who own wolfdogs would disagree, but from what I've read about wolfdog breeders, many are so unreputable that they sell "high content" wolfdogs that, in reality, have almost no wolf in them at all. Hence, the perpetuation of the false belief that grey wolves combined with domesticated dogs in any significant content range would result in an animal that is somehow reliable and predictable (which is what we expect our domesticated dogs to be).


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

i havent read anything past this quote taken from alerondogs.

*Tamaskans are pretty uncommon. It's probably easier to find a Czech Wolfdog or Saarloos (which also has wolf in the foundation). Those breeds were founded on using wolf hybrids but they are a developed breed and are no longer outcrossed to wolves. Still if for whatever reason you "need" something with wolf blood for spiritual reasons or whatever, dogs of those breeds do have wolf in their pedigrees somewhere. But behaviorally, they will have much more predictable temperament traits due to generations of selective breeding than buying someone's GSD/Wolf mixes. And they may look more consistently "wolf-y" than some very low percentage hybrids. *

this is what im looking for! a hybrid with a very low percentage of wolf. i dont know how many generations it takes to do that, so my suggesting the pup from two wolfdogs was a wild guess. too many of you are assuming i want a wild animal.
and for those of you asking about metaphysics.. have you heard about animal idols? 

anyways, i researched tamaskan breeders and i think i may have found one in america. they cost about the same as a wolfdog..and the guy i talked to said that if i make a deposit on an individual puppy, they will respect my wishes of withholding vaccinating. so im takin that as a sign that a tamaskan is the right option for me.

no, im not looking for attention. i knew wolfdogs are controversial but not THIS controversial. on the bright side, forum activity is buzzing, lol. if i was looking for attention, id make an alternate screen name and make a troll post.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Not sure, but I thought Tamaskans were allegedly 'wolf dogs without wolf blood', created from all sorts of nordic breeds and sleddogs. Again, not sure.


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

and to respond to a couple other things that caught my attention.. my husband may be native, but he was raised american. hes no more spiritual than a rock.

and ten years is a gross estimate of when i think ill want another dog. but if my husband agrees, it may be as soon as two or three years. i dont want two dogs that are wildly different in ages. then again, having an older dog when i get a new one would be a good thing because he could be a role model for the younger one. and my daughter will be old enough to help train it.

i think that was it..


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

krystina alayne said:


> i havent read anything past this quote taken from alerondogs.
> 
> [ too many of you are assuming i want a wild animal.
> and for those of you asking about metaphysics.. have you heard about animal idols? .



Never heard of animal idols. I have heard of animal totems and spirit guides. It's not necessary to "own" one to access that power. In fact, it could be counterproductive.



krystina alayne said:


> no, im not looking for attention. i knew wolfdogs are controversial but not THIS controversial. on the bright side, forum activity is buzzing, lol. if i was looking for attention, id make an alternate screen name and make a troll post.



And I suspect if you did that, you'd be out on your tookas before you could say "boo". The moderators here are pretty much "on the ball"


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

oh.. what were the other ones, then? ill research the tamaskan breed a bit more. if they were bred from wolves within the last century or so, that will be good.

a few years back i was looking up czech wolfdogs. i could only find breeders in europe. i dont want the poor thing to have to be shipped that far.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

If you look on the previous page, the very first post mentions interesting info on the Czechoslovakian wolfdog.


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

i dont view having a pet as "owning" it. i dont "own" my daughter. and while i live in washington, its not exactly easy to have contact with wolves. we have a "wolf haven" but those guys look devastatingly miserable in their cages. they have no spirit left [which is also a reason why i want such a low-percentage wolf; so she wouldnt desire the wild like a wolf does].

lol, dont worry, i wouldnt troll this place. im not like that. this other forum i go to has a lot of trolls and its just really, really annoying.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

krystina alayne said:


> no, im not looking for attention. i knew wolfdogs are controversial but not THIS controversial. on the bright side, forum activity is buzzing, lol. if i was looking for attention, id make an alternate screen name and make a troll post.


I can personally gaurantee if you did that, you'd no longer be here.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

krystina alayne said:


> i dont view having a pet as "owning" it. i dont "own" my daughter. and while i live in washington, its not exactly easy to have contact with wolves. we have a "wolf haven" but those guys look devastatingly miserable in their cages. they have no spirit left [which is also a reason why i want such a low-percentage wolf; so she wouldnt desire the wild like a wolf does].
> 
> lol, dont worry, i wouldnt troll this place. im not like that. this other forum i go to has a lot of trolls and its just really, really annoying.


Animals that are born in captivity for many generations do not desire the wild, that is a myth


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## krystina alayne (Jun 23, 2011)

many of the wolves at the haven are not born there. they get most of their wolves by rescuing them from owners who obtain them, sometimes right from the wild. sometimes they do get new puppies, but i dont think they deliberately try to breed them there due to lack of space and ethics.

avie: thanks for pointing that out, i missed that post. ill research the two breeders a bit more. although my husband probably isnt going to want to drive to texas lol!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

krystina alayne said:


> i dont view having a pet as "owning" it. i dont "own" my daughter. and while i live in washington, its not exactly easy to have contact with wolves. we have a "wolf haven" but those guys look devastatingly miserable in their cages. they have no spirit left [which is also a reason why i want such a low-percentage wolf; so she wouldnt desire the wild like a wolf does].
> .


Do you expect your daughter to live in your house and follow your rules for her entire life? Poor girl. I own my dogs. I am a big meanie and don't send them to an ivy league college either. My dogs don't get the "owned" bit. In fact, if you asked them, they probably own me. But legal ownership does give me more control over their life and well-being than legal guardianship would. I can choose to breed them, to sell their puppies, to put them on leash, and in the very end of their time I can choose to euthanize them to end their suffering. If I were only their guardian, the state could decide those things. Not me.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Cindy23323 said:


> Animals that are born in captivity for many generations do not desire the wild, that is a myth


But wolves (not wolf dog hybrids) are not dogs and cannot be made into dogs. They may not desire the wild, but they have a number of behaviors which make living with humans difficult. Nova special (I think it was) Dogs Decoded had an interesting segment about wolf pups raised as pups. They still developed the hardwired behavior of wolves. I know at Wolf Park, they take pups and start socialization before their eyes open. They are safer around people than normal wolves, but they are still wolves. I've met some very nice wolf dogs - I do think they are too much for the average owner, and I think some perceived metaphysical connect is a poor reason to want a wolfdog - or any animal. That's ego talking. Just go buy a nice "Mountain" tee shirt. They have a great selection of wolf prints.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

I didnt say that they werent difficult or anything else, i just said that her coment about desiring the wild was incorrect and a myth.

What wolf park does with the pure wolves pups also is what the true high content breeders of wolfdogs do also. Not the ones that have nothing more then a husky/gsd mix claiming its a high content wolfdog but the real ones. My Selene and Loki were both pulled prior to they're eyes opening

This is Selene









This is Loki being pulled at 10 days old


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

> this is what im looking for! a hybrid with a very low percentage of wolf.


You do realize that the Tamaskans of today DO NOT have ANY wolf in them? They are not "low contet" or have a "very low percentage" of wolf. They are a fully domesticated breed of dog that can be traced back to having wolves in their pedigree.
But they are definately NOT "hybrids". 

Just like a Siberian Husky. They were bred with wolves quite regularly and have wolf in their pedigrees but they are definitely not "hybrids"


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

krystina alayne said:


> 75% wolf? daang.. thats crazy.. and dangerous lol. im looking for the opposite. NO MORE than 25%.. and again, an older pup or adult.


It can be crazy and dangerous no matter what the percentage of a wolf hybrid. If you're unwilling to prepare and acknowledge that, then they are definitely not for you. I'd go with what others have said, and try to find a dog breed that was bred to look like a wolf.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Cindy--no I don't have a picture. This was back in 2001 when I worked at a kennel. If I had to find a picture of her, I'd say she looks like this: http://thornlandwolfdogs.zoomshare.com/files/se2.jpg I can't see where this animal could be a wolfdog. I tried to see the ears of yours, but couldn't see them that well, yours really are beautiful! 

And I think any breed of dog can be found/bred in the US, it's just a matter of telling if the breeder is true to his/her word that the dog is indeed a Tamaskan or a fake. I saw one breeder in the US who bred Stabyhouns and they're rare; they're from the Netherlands.


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## lisahi (Jun 19, 2011)

Cindy23323 said:


> I didnt say that they werent difficult or anything else, i just said that her coment about desiring the wild was incorrect and a myth.


I don't think you can say that about every single captive wolf or wolf hybrid. Genetics is a funky business - traits you would think long-since disappeared from a line can spring up again suddenly and randomly.

Although I don't think longing for the wild is really a trait that would be dormant in captive wolves or wolf hybrids. Look strictly at domestic dogs, and particularly dogs with very strong herding instincts. Puppies that were never exposed to the concept of herding by a parent wind up trying to herd people, other animals, objects. Sight and scent hounds often become escape artists in order to track what they see or smell. The instincts are hard-wired and much of this forum is dedicated to managing those instincts.

I can't imagine the natural instict to hunt would be lost on captive wolves and wolf hybrids, regardless of who raised them, or how captive their line has been. Wolves pretty much spend their time breeding, hunting, eating and playing. They move if the food moves. The idea that captive wolves or wolf-hybrids would simply lose that instinct to head into open land to hunt for their food -- I don't think it's genetically sound. Maybe captive wolves or wolf-hybrids wouldn't be as good at hunting or surviving outside of captivity as their truly wild brothers and sisters, but that doesn't mean the instict is gone. Perhaps not every wolf-hybrid winds up inheriting that instinct to a discernable degree, but I'm sure some do, thus making the concept that captive wolves or wolf-hybrids long for the wild not merely a myth. You just have to think about _why_ they would long for the wild - it's not necessarily freedom they are after, but a hard-wired instinct to do the same as their genetic similars.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

> many of the wolves at the haven are not born there. they get most of their wolves by rescuing them from owners who obtain them, sometimes right from the wild. sometimes they do get new puppies, but i dont think they deliberately try to breed them there due to lack of space and ethics.


The only wolves that are bred at Wolf Haven are the Mexican Grays and Red Wolves. They're one of only a few places allowed in the US to actively breed the Mexican Gray Wolves (pre-release breeding facility) to be released back into the wild. 

Wolf Haven does take in a lot of wolves (and coyotes) from people; not just people who can't handle them but also abused and neglected ones. They also play a huge role in the actual conservation of these animals.

I've sponsored wolves from there and was in contact for a very long time with them.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Cindy--no I don't have a picture. This was back in 2001 when I worked at a kennel. If I had to find a picture of her, I'd say she looks like this: http://thornlandwolfdogs.zoomshare.com/files/se2.jpg I can't see where this animal could be a wolfdog. I tried to see the ears of yours, but couldn't see them that well, yours really are beautiful!
> 
> And I think any breed of dog can be found/bred in the US, it's just a matter of telling if the breeder is true to his/her word that the dog is indeed a Tamaskan or a fake. I saw one breeder in the US who bred Stabyhouns and they're rare; they're from the Netherlands.


Well the animal in that picture is definately a wolfdog, you just found a picture of my girl Selene. Thats her breeders website and I allow her to use any of my pictures she wants.
This is my site http://virginiawolves.zoomshare.com/
She was holding her head down abit and it angeled it so you couldnt see the true size of her ears. This picture of her at another angel shows them off a little better. They're not overly big or anything, just bigger then a pure wolves ears, that are a little smaller


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

ah man.....I could spend all day drooling over Cindy's wolfdog pics.....so gorgious!
That's about as close as I would want to come to owning one, though!


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Wolfdogs seems to be the only breed of dog that has a percentage sign with advertising. Flordia passed a percentage law and overnight the percents in the ads changed. Wow! 

Anybody interested in owning this type of dog should do their research first. A lot of con artist on the web when you look for puppies for sale. This dog is not for everyone but sometimes a chihuahua can be too much dog for some to own.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Cindy--lol, what are the chances that I picked your wolfdog out of many yahoo pictures that I saw? That is too cool; yes I see what you mean by the ears. I guess the muzzle could be longer too. Thank you for helping me and your site is very nice. 

Don't people who own wolfdogs need a license?


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

Have you previously owned a large breed dog? from puppy hood on and taken care of the training and everything afterwards by yourself ? 

Even with the best of knowledge and research and care it doesn't prepare you for the task.
A lot of breeds of dogs you HAVE To be the boss and be prepared to assert your dominance in a direct manner. Especially with a wolf mix. That is something you can't read about but need hands on experience. and some people just don't have that nature. With certain breeds of dogs labeled for " advanced owners" if you do not have this quality of being alpha, your pet can bite you. These are dog breeds. Dog breeds tend to have a " I want to please" attitude and still have a poor outcome. A dog with wolf in it are harder to train and need to know they are not alpha in the pack and NEED to submit to you. If this is something you are not familiar with I would strongly suggest adopting another breed of dog to sharpen your skills.

here are 2 examples:
A client of mine an old lady and her disabled husband purchased a husky puppy. Huskies are normally very friendly and loving , people pleasing dogs. but they do need to have a strong willed owner. I do not normally discourage my clients from owning their dogs but I DID tell this lady, " please get another breed this isn't going to work out."
well they didn't listen to me. The dog became extremely aggressive as it grew and was put down at the age of 1 yr. 
Another client of mine purchased a husky mix from a rescue. Every time she leaves for work it poops and pee's all over itself in the kennel and howls all day long. This is very stressful to her and she spends hundreds of dollars trying to sedate the poor dog when all it needs is a new home.

Wolf hybrids are not huskies. but they have a lot of the same issues, amplified. Prepare yourself! I appreciate the research I see you have done but evaluate yourself. Try to put aside your true desire to own this animal and really crunch the facts in an unbiased way. If this DOESN'T work out, the dog could end up in a shelter, or euthanized. Owning any dog is having their life in your hands it starts with making responsible decisions on the breed.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Don't people who own wolfdogs need a license?


Depends, here in FL if the % is over (I don't remember what it is at the moment) then yes you do need a license. I had a wolf dog, and I had to pay $500 a year to keep a special tag on him.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Cindy--lol, what are the chances that I picked your wolfdog out of many yahoo pictures that I saw? That is too cool; yes I see what you mean by the ears. I guess the muzzle could be longer too. Thank you for helping me and your site is very nice.
> 
> Don't people who own wolfdogs need a license?


Each state has a different law on them. Some say they're not allowed at all. Some states say they are allowed, some say as long as they'res at least 2% dog in them then they're considered dogs. Some require permits, or special things you must do. etc. etc. and just because a state says they're allowed does not mean you can have them, because then each city in the state can make they're own rules against them also.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

luv mi pets said:


> Wolfdogs seems to be the only breed of dog that has a percentage sign with advertising. Flordia passed a percentage law and overnight the percents in the ads changed. Wow!
> 
> Anybody interested in owning this type of dog should do their research first. A lot of con artist on the web when you look for puppies for sale. This dog is not for everyone but sometimes a chihuahua can be too much dog for some to own.


Florida just changed that law recently, it used to be anything over 75% required a class II wildlife permit. Now the percent has been taken away and it states that anything that looks like wolf can be considered a wolf by AC, which in my opinion is a worse law because I've seen AC officers claim that pure blooded huskies or mals are wolfdogs. So whats going to happen when you get a really wolfy looking dog and they think its a wolf.


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

Cindy23323 said:


> Florida just changed that law recently, it used to be anything over 75% required a class II wildlife permit. Now the percent has been taken away and it states that anything that looks like wolf can be considered a wolf by AC, which in my opinion is a worse law because I've seen AC officers claim that pure blooded huskies or mals are wolfdogs. So whats going to happen when you get a really wolfy looking dog and they think its a wolf.


That's ludicrous. AC officers can't even tell pit bulls apart from myriad other dog breeds and mixes. And most people probably can't tell a northern breed apart from a wolfdog, as demonstrated by unscrupulous craigslist breeders. This is, like, racial profiling or something.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Agreed. We went to pull Max out of a AC to foster, they had him listed as a wolfdog and would not let him be adopted out, only pulled by a wd rescue or put down. Tell me this looks like a wolfdog? Anyway I drove 4 hours showed up there at 9am when they opened. We were walking him out to the suv and the ac told him to jump in the back, and when he wouldnt do it, she said thats a wolf hybrid for you, dont listen at all. I was so mad but bit my tongue. I could see any animal being upset and not doing what they were told in that place. He was so afraid. Got him home and found out he was one of the most perfectly well trained animals, is house trained, and knew tons of tricks. Ended up calling the ac back asking them if they did a scan on him to see if he had a chip and they said no they didnt bother to do it. Also told me "oh by the way he has a tattoo, we noticed this when we had him on the table put under to fix him, shaved him down and Oh oops we noticed the tattoo and that he had already been fixed.


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## Allis- (Apr 18, 2012)

I have a 64% and she is crazy! she's a siberian husky-arctic tundra wolf hybrid. she is absolutely gorgeous and is my first ever dog. I know that probably wasn't a ood choice as she was also an impulse buy. however, she is the best choice I have ever made in my life. These dogs are beautiful,loving, gentle and just all around fantastic! she is perfect around kids and doesn't have a mean bone in her. I completely understand hard to train part... its almost l she has split personalities! one day she is perfect then next she's a monster,and the digging, and the HIGH energy. But she gets better every day- I mean she's only eight months old. I really respect your decision to wait, you sound way smarter thdan me! But all things aside- good and annoying getting my baby wolf pup was the best decision I've made in my life and I couldn't possibly imagine life without her.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Got any pics of her?


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