# Klee kai or shiba mix?



## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

hey guys, my friend just got some klee kai puppies in hopes of becoming a breeder. she drove out of state for both puppies, I believe the male was $2000.00 and the female cost her $2700.00. sadly she didn't talk to me about it very much before she went and got them. the woman she purchased this female from was very suspicious, my friend drove 12 hours to pick this pup up and the lady wouldn't allow her to come to her house, she met my friend in a parking lot and quickly had my friend sign the paper for owner ship of the dog. anyways, the puppies are around 3 to 4 months old now and we cant help but see the huge difference in appearance and attitude of the female compared to the male. we are wondering if my friend got scammed. the female looks like a shiba inu mix to us, not only does she look different but her build is boxy and stocky compared to the male, and her fur is very different in texture and look as well. what do you guys think? here are some pictures of them so you can see what I mean. we are considering taking the woman to court seeing how my friend paid so much for a pure bred klee kai. so let me know your opinions. 

The Female, her name is Kya, she is very independent and acts like she doesn't need no body lol. 









































Here is the Male, his name is Atrayu but we call him Tray for short. he loves to cuddle and is a big talker and a big baby lol


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

For the amount your friend paid for those dogs, EACH and then the "breeder" wouldn't allow you to go on sight where the puppies were supposedly born, is a very, very big red flag. That alone makes me think she scammed you. I can't help you on the breed though, but I do know there is a AKK owner here, and some Shiba owners, I'm sure they'll chime in.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

The top one looks much more shiba to me. The face is not right for AKK at all, the dog already looks too large to be even a standard AKK, the body type is too stocky, and the coloring looks more like the shiba's sesame, which is not a color AKK can come in. The bottom looks AKK, possibly pure but I am not 100% sure. I know that there is at least one bad breeder mixing shibas and AKK... the female looks like she could be a case of that, if not pure shiba. I'll get some AKK people in here to see what they think.

Although, I have to say, your friend almost deserved to be ripped off. It is a TERRIBLE idea to buy a dog from someone in a parking lot. It's stupid to buy two dogs for breeding purposes when you haven't even seen their parents, have no idea how to determine whether or not a dog is breeding quality, and didn't get UKC registration papers (which your friend obviously didn't, as that top dog is not a pure AKK). I hope she will get them both spayed/neutered instead of breeding more AKK mixes.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

Just based on the story you've told and what little I know about how serious AKK breeders are about their pups and who gets them, I'd say your friend got scammed. I'd also suggest that you try to talk her out of breeding entirely. From the sound of it, she has no clue what she's doing.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yes, I belong to an AKK breeders' group (I don't intend to breed, but I'm very interested in learning about good breeding practices), and none of those people would ever sell their dogs to a random stranger in a parking lot. They would never sell to anyone who wanted to breed unless they had _thoroughly_ vetted that person, and there would definitely be contracts to sign.

Also, was the woman who sold the female named Bonnie, by any chance? In Kansas?


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

thank you Crantastic and Juliek1967. sadly I have to agree with you on her not knowing what she is doing. I just posted about this in the training forum but my friend is actually in the hospital right now for a mental illness, she has not been thinking clearly at all, and I have moved in to help her. sadly I am now stuck with 7 dogs 2 of which are mine, and 5 of which are not potty trained. I am pretty much trying to help my friend clean up the mess she has decided to jump into. she didn't tell me about the poor breeder she was getting the female from and she was to sick to be thinking clearly when she went to pick her up. luckily the male seems to be at least from a decent breeder. he is under contract and the breeder was much nicer and more caring for him then the other. I'm really hoping my friend can get some help with her illness and maybe decide on not breeding. but I cant guarantee anything, as of right now all I can do is Guide her in the correct direction and try and help her do the right thing. I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this female is not a pure klee kai.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

The female looks a bit like a very small husky, but NOT an AKK to me. I wouldn't be surprised if she was part or mostly Shiba. 

Though they're on my "to own" list, I'm not overly familiar with AKKs simply for a lack of exposure, but the boy definitely looks _more_ like an AKK than the girl. They're both very cute though!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

And here I was thinking the boy looked like a Chi mix . 

OK, I replied to the other thread but, really, something needs to be done. She's going to end up with the dogs being taken away for neglect, there's no way she can raise healthy puppies in that environment. Not that the world needs more badly-bred puppies in the first place.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Some AKK, especially the toy-sized ones, have more of a chihuahua look about them. I'm not so fond of that; I prefer the mini and standard sizes that look more Sibe-like. A friend of mine takes photographs at shows; here is a nice big album full of pics of the different sizes and colors.


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## Tesoro (Jan 3, 2013)

The female is clearly NOT an AKK. It looks much more Sheaba Inu than AKK. The male is not breed quality even by these few pictures. His tail is much too short to curl over and be able to touch the back (per UKC breed standard). 

Here is the breed standard 
http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breeds/NorthernBreed/AlaskanKleeKai05012012. 

Your friend got scammed, no doubt. Anyone who buys so called "breed quality" dogs in a parking lot without confirming pedigree or lineage probably gets what they deserve. No respectable breeder (AKK or otherwise) would sell someone so called "breed quality" dogs without offering more information or let them visit the kennel/site where the dam/sire are. The pricing is not too far off but your friend should have sought advise or info from the AKK community. There is even a "Beware of AKK Scams" web site out there that would have tipped her off to this situation. Unfortunately not all of the AKK breeders are enforcing their strict placement contracts and this situation is becoming more prevalent. Sorry for the buyer and sorry for the dogs.


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## Nuclear_Glitter (Jun 20, 2012)

Perhaps you should contact the males breeder and see if you can return him. Tell the breeder the situation, because I highly doubt any breeder (that is at least decent) wants their dog in a situation like this. Perhaps you could do it in such a fashion that your friend doesn't have to know you're the one who contacted the breeder? Your friend obviously needs help and having three untrained dogs and two puppies isn't doing her any good right now. Her husband should be able to see that, as well.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Female is deeffiinnitteellyy not an AKK. Looks like a Shiba, Shiba mix to me.

Bottom could be an AKK but...

Hope your friend doesn't breed these dogs.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Can you PM me the name of the male's breeder? If you don't know that, anything else you can tell me about him and where he came from would be great.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

thanks every one, I thought so too. its pretty bad when I can tell the difference and I barley know anything about klee kai's. I will try and find out that info for you crantastic.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Nobody has suggested this, so I will. Crantastic--could the first dog be a puppy Siberian Husky? I only ask that because that doesn't look like a AKK at all and I don't see Shiba Inu at all in any of those two pups. 

Also, I agree with everyone that your friend got scammed. My gosh those two pups were way higher in price than even what Luke cost and he's a rare breed!!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Look up "sesame shiba." It doesn't look husky to me. See the eye shape, and the slope of the face/muzzle? Looks shiba to me. Could be mixed, of course. This is a terrible breeder we're talking about here. (The OP sent me a link to the breeder's site, and they breed "Alaskan Klee Kai," shibas, and several other small breeds -- no Sibes, though.)


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Crantasitc--thank you. I learned something new and can now see how the OP's dog looks like a Shiba.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I cannot help with identification and I'm sorry your friend is sick but she got scammed, in a big way and it's her own fault. I feel sorry for the dogs first, then the lady. Sorry to be blunt.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

its alright Inkedmarie, I know where you are coming from. I have been best friends with this person for 18 years now, and I love her and wish to help her in any way I can, she is a wonderful person and was there for me while my mother was dieing from cancer. she stayed with me at my mothers house helping me stay up all night and push a pain killer button every half hour so my mother wouldn't suffer for the last few weeks of her life. she is a good friend and I just want to be one back, and sadly this illness has really messed with her head and has made her make very rash decisions. as of right now all the dogs are doing well and are kept in a clean healthy environment and loved on all the time. they are all fed well and given the vet care they need. so for them it isn't the worst thing in the world, but I do wish she would have given the new puppies more thought and research before jumping into it. I seem to find that so many dog lovers on here jump the gun and forget to think about the people as well as the dogs, but we are all human and can only do our best lol


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Mother Gaia said:


> I seem to find that so many dog lovers on here jump the gun and forget to think about the people as well as the dogs, but we are all human and can only do our best lol


Well, it's not really just the fact that she paid thousands of dollars for two dogs, hoping to breed them, not knowing what she was looking for... did she plan to health test these dogs? Temperament test them? Show them? Was she going to draw up legal contracts for buyers? 
Did she think this through _at all_? 
Apparently not.

Please at least try to talk your friend out of breeding these dogs, or any at all for that matter. If she's too ill and/or uninformed to know what she's getting as far as breeding stock, then I would think she would be to ill and/or uninformed to breed them responsibly too.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

I agree and I am bringing all of this to her attention. She was unaware of the length one must go to be a good breeder. The people who she has been around are not pet people, I am the only "pet" person she really knows besides a friend that owns a local pet store who buys puppies from back yard breeders. So I do believe that this is a big dose of uninformed thinking. I seem to be the only person in her life who knows the correct ways to go about animals and I think some times she feels that I am just really animal crazy because every one else does things the "easy" way rather then the right way. I am talking to her about it and I will be posting the end result as soon as I can. thanks for your help and support guys.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

You should show your friend this thread:

Or this (it's about boxers, but a lot of that applies to all breeds): http://www.showdogs.org/Bellcrest/littercost.html

Breeding is expensive, a lot can go wrong, and it's something she needs to consider VERY carefully before getting into it. If she still wants to breed after this, she should find herself a great mentor who can help her out.


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