# Finally decided to see a behaviorist- SA



## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm going to be calling to make an appointment on Monday. 

Every time I think that his separation anxiety is getting slightly better he just goes back to do what he has always done. I feel like by 9 months old things should have gotten maybe a little better, but he's been the same since 8 weeks with almost no improvement.

He poops in the house EVERY day. I can run for hours with him and leave him home and he will bark constantly and poop whether I'm gone 20 minutes or 2 hours. I've pretty much tried everything that I've read/been told to try and help him.

I may have to put nosework classes on hold until later in the year, but we will see how things go. I just want my baby to not be so stressed out. If only dogs could understand us when we tell them not to be scared.


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## Chichan (Apr 1, 2014)

I hope the behaviorist can help you two out.
You both deserve peace of mind whether you're together or apart.


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## Andrea_P (Sep 26, 2013)

Good luck.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you both. I've been debating it for a while. I'm pretty sure they will want to put him on medication, which is what I wanted to avoid and use as a last resort. At this point I think if it will help him then it will be worth it. I think anxiety meds are usually only ment to be used short term while working on training anyways. The behaviorist seems to be well experienced with anxiety and has a good reputation.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

We just got back from the visit with the behaviorist. She said he does have severe SA and that most of the time severe SA cannot be helped with just training. She said the best thing to do would be to use a combination of medication and training. We were prescribed Prozac and Xanax. The Xanax will be taken for just a month until the Prozac starts to work then we can wean off the Xanax. The Prozac will be taken for 6-9 months or until the desensitization training starts to show improvement. 

She gave us an outline of training to do with desensitization as well as learning to settle. She said he is generally an anxious dog and that teaching him to settle will help with the SA. She also told me to not come home for lunchtime to let him out because it is triggering another episode of SA. 

Overall she said that she is confident that we will be able to get past the SA. She also said that it is important to take care of it now before it becomes a life long habit.

I feel very hopeful and relieved. Maybe this summer I can fix my destroyed front door! Yay!


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## CalliePup (May 19, 2014)

Good luck!!! My puppy has SA too, but after hearing some of the stories on this forum, her SA doesn't seem quite so bad. Definitely keep us posted with how the training/medication goes! Also have you ever heard of GNC's calming chews for dogs? They have tryptophan and herbal stuff in them, I'm not sure what everyone else thinks of them (I've been meaning to ask). Reviews on Petsmart's website say they work...


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Training a settle as in training a place command? A place command will help with anxiety and excitement. Structured, calm walks will also help with anxiety. Also slow jogging on a treadmill is also good.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

CalliePup said:


> Good luck!!! My puppy has SA too, but after hearing some of the stories on this forum, her SA doesn't seem quite so bad. Definitely keep us posted with how the training/medication goes! Also have you ever heard of GNC's calming chews for dogs? They have tryptophan and herbal stuff in them, I'm not sure what everyone else thinks of them (I've been meaning to ask). Reviews on Petsmart's website say they work...


I haven't heard of that specific calming chew but I have tried various different brands of calming chews. They didn't work for Ryker's level of anxiety but they had no negative effects either. I think they could be beneficial to more mild SA like in your case. I'm not sure if they recommend the supplements for young puppies. If your pup is still really young I would wait it out and see if it improves over time. She could just grow out of it. If the chews are okay for puppies then I don't see the harm in trying them.



Hector4 said:


> Training a settle as in training a place command? A place command will help with anxiety and excitement. Structured, calm walks will also help with anxiety. Also slow jogging on a treadmill is also good.


Training "place" as well as teaching him to settle himself in distracting environments (like obedience class or new places). Teaching him that good things only happen when he is calm and not when he's hyped up and anxious. For the most part I already include this in our daily routine but I'm going to be more conscious of my actions and what behaviors I'm actually rewarding.

He gets a slow paced walk in the morning and then I run with him after work. Would there be a difference jogging on a treadmill as opposed to running with me?

She also suggested that I take him to daycare once or twice a week after he's fixed (daycare doesn't allow intact dogs) so he can learn that the world doesn't revolve around just me.

I'm kind of hesitant on the not coming home to let him out at lunch. I KNOW it will be good for his SA but I don't want him to be uncomfortable holding his bladder for 7-8 hours. That just seems like a really long time to me. It's going to be hard watching him on the IP cam get up and go to the door at lunch in anticipation that I'm coming home.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Alarm bells are going off in my head about the meds. Have you talked to your vet about the drugs and are you getting them from him/her? Dosage is different than humans, side effects are different. Xanax can cause dependence. Can also be liver/kidney issues - your dog should have bloodwork done before the meds to make sure there are no issues before dosing. My dog gets Xanax for vet visits - we use it rarely and only when needed. I would not put her on it daily, esp for months. Do talk to a vet if you haven't already. Just concerned.

P.S. my dog also has SA. We've tried a number of things but it's not curable, we just manage it. A really good book: "I'll Be Home Soon" by Patricia McConnell will help you understand what the trainer is doing. Highly recommend it.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

winniec777 said:


> Alarm bells are going off in my head about the meds. Have you talked to your vet about the drugs and are you getting them from him/her? Dosage is different than humans, side effects are different. Xanax can cause dependence. Can also be liver/kidney issues - your dog should have bloodwork done before the meds to make sure there are no issues before dosing. My dog gets Xanax for vet visits - we use it rarely and only when needed. I would not put her on it daily, esp for months. Do talk to a vet if you haven't already. Just concerned.
> 
> P.S. my dog also has SA. We've tried a number of things but it's not curable, we just manage it. A really good book: "I'll Be Home Soon" by Patricia McConnell will help you understand what the trainer is doing. Highly recommend it.


Sorry, I edited my post. The Xanax will be short term and the Prozac will be for a few months. The doctor I saw was a veterinary behaviorist that my regular vet refered me to. We discussed side effects of the medication and I understand how chemical dependence works but she did not mention bloodwork before administering the medication. I will ask her about that before I give him anything. Thank you for the advice. 

This is quoted from her website_ "Dr. Michelle Posage holds a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree from Michigan State University (1998), as well as a Bachelor of Science degree in Zoology with concentrations in neurobiology and animal behavior, also from MSU (1994)"_


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

I have two dogs that have SA. It took the rescue a year before he settled down. He still has SA, but it is not nearly as intense. He used to rip off fence boards, chew up doors, pace intensely, salivate excessively, jump at windows to get in. Melatonin works okay with my other dog, but it is short lived. Is your dog kept in the crate or free roaming? Can you maybe open a doggie door that leads to a small chainlink kennel outdoors. 

I don't know if there is a difference, but I feel that a paced treadmill workout keeps the dog focused and calm whereas a jog outdoors might elevate the dog's excitement where it becomes stressful and certain dogs have a hard time calming down afterwards and I've read some pace and whine afterwards because they get so worked up.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about chemical dependence in this situation. It's a month of xanax and then a taper off, don't worry. 

I hate that people are so resistant to medication for dogs. I have anxiety issues. I couldn't begin to work on them until the meds calmed my brain down to a quiet shriek. Lord knows, I tried. I'm not terrified all the time anymore, and all it took was a few months of meds and cognitive behavioral therapy. I don't see why dogs would be any different.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

jade5280 said:


> Sorry, I edited my post. The Xanax will be short term and the Prozac will be for a few months. The doctor I saw was a veterinary behaviorist that my regular vet refered me to. We discussed side effects of the medication and I understand how chemical dependence works but she did not mention bloodwork before administering the medication. I will ask her about that before I give him anything. Thank you for the advice.
> 
> This is quoted from her website_ "Dr. Michelle Posage holds a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree from Michigan State University (1998), as well as a Bachelor of Science degree in Zoology with concentrations in neurobiology and animal behavior, also from MSU (1994)"_



That's terrific. So many people ignore SA or rehome the dog when they can't deal with it anymore. Nice to see someone doing so much to help.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Hector4 said:


> I have two dogs that have SA. It took the rescue a year before he settled down. He still has SA, but it is not nearly as intense. He used to rip off fence boards, chew up doors, pace intensely, salivate excessively, jump at windows to get in. Melatonin works okay with my other dog, but it is short lived. Is your dog kept in the crate or free roaming? Can you maybe open a doggie door that leads to a small chainlink kennel outdoors.
> 
> I don't know if there is a difference, but I feel that a paced treadmill workout keeps the dog focused and calm whereas a jog outdoors might elevate the dog's excitement where it becomes stressful and certain dogs have a hard time calming down afterwards and I've read some pace and whine afterwards because they get so worked up.


We've given him free range of the house after unsuccessful attempts at confinement. For the most part he is not destructive (aside from the front door). And giving him more room seemed to help his anxiety somewhat. His crate is left open and he sleeps there during the day.



Amaryllis said:


> I wouldn't worry about chemical dependence in this situation. It's a month of xanax and then a taper off, don't worry.
> 
> I hate that people are so resistant to medication for dogs. I have anxiety issues. I couldn't begin to work on them until the meds calmed my brain down to a quiet shriek. Lord knows, I tried. I'm not terrified all the time anymore, and all it took was a few months of meds and cognitive behavioral therapy. I don't see why dogs would be any different.


This was what the doctor felt as well. I feel like I've tried everything to help him and medication was my last resort. She thought that his and our quality of life would benefit greatly from medication. I can't imagine that it's very healthy to be stressed out all the time. It would be great if me and the SO could go out to dinner or even to the grocery store together! Or maybe I can once again walk to my mailbox without hearing his desperate howls.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

winniec777 said:


> That's terrific. So many people ignore SA or rehome the dog when they can't deal with it anymore. Nice to see someone doing so much to help.


 Thank you. I think I would just live in a hole in the ground before I rehomed him. Almost every website/thread I've read about SA recommends "I'll Be Home Soon" by Patricia McConnell. I'll have to check it out!


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Sending yall good thoughts for progress and look forward to hear updates of your journey..


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

SA is so tough. My thoughts go out to you and him. We struggled with SA a lot when we first got Jewel, but uncrating her seemed to fix the issues. If we weren't able to fix it, I don't know what I would have done. It's so hard to deal at work knowing that they are stressed and not knowing what you would come home to. Poor Jewel would bleed trying to get out of her crate. Please keep us posted and hang in there.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you for the support everyone! 

We had to take him off the Xanax (alprazolam) because it was having the opposite effect. He became more anxious and would pace, whine, bark for hours. He also acted like a brat and didn't listen to us while he was on it. It did not make him tired or relaxed at all!

The Prozac doesn't seem to be having any negative effects so we will continue with that and hopefully it will start to work sooner than later. Desensitization is going slow but we'll get there.

He doesn't bark in the afternoon at all since we stopped coming home for lunch. I don't know why I didn't try that sooner. He will get up an walk around at noon but so far he doesn't seem to be anxious.

We're going to be dog sitting his GSP friend tonight and tomorrow so I'm going to try leaving for 10-20 min and see how he handles being alone with another dog.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

jade5280 said:


> Thank you for the support everyone!
> 
> We had to take him off the Xanax (alprazolam) because it was having the opposite effect. He became more anxious and would pace, whine, bark for hours. He also acted like a brat and didn't listen to us while he was on it. It did not make him tired or relaxed at all!
> 
> ...


It would be better if you simply kept them separated when you aren't there to supervise. There's too much potential for a fight breaking out over a toy, a spot to sleep or nothing at all.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Amaryllis said:


> It would be better if you simply kept them separated when you aren't there to supervise. There's too much potential for a fight breaking out over a toy, a spot to sleep or nothing at all.


I hadn't thought of that. My house has gates in every door way so I can keep them separated. I also have cameras set up so I can watch them from my phone.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I figured that I should update this in case anyone comes across it who has a dog with SA.

Ryker's progress has been TREMENDOUS. He is currently on 30mg of fluoxetine. I could almost say his separation anxiety is 100% gone except for some whining right after we leave. Dealing with his SA has been one of the most stressful things I've had to do. I'm so thankful that we went to a behaviorist for him and myself. He will be on the medication for at least a few months and eventually would like to wean him off. I'm hoping that all will go well when that time comes.

This picture is so awesome (taken about 10 minutes after I left, he's sleeping on the couch with his toy)


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

awesome   Thanks for the update


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Woohoo! I hope you guys continue to see progress and are able to wean him off the meds.

Watson is not quite as bad as Ryker, but he has some SA. I found that moving to a new place (and apt with my parents) seemed to help for some reason. Maybe it's just about breaking that pattern? I imagine the meds would do something similar and if he can break that pattern, he may never go back to it even when off the meds.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

PatriciafromCO said:


> awesome   Thanks for the update


Thank you!



elrohwen said:


> Woohoo! I hope you guys continue to see progress and are able to wean him off the meds.
> 
> Watson is not quite as bad as Ryker, but he has some SA. I found that moving to a new place (and apt with my parents) seemed to help for some reason. Maybe it's just about breaking that pattern? I imagine the meds would do something similar and if he can break that pattern, he may never go back to it even when off the meds.


Yes this is what I'm hoping and that he doesn't regress when he's finally taken off the medication. I do think that SA symptoms can develop into a habit and that changing things can help like it did for Watson. I know that they say change isn't good for dogs with SA, but I think it really depends on the dog and that change can sometimes break habits (like barking) because dogs are relating your schedule/place/house with the stress that they feel when you're gone, which then turns into a habit.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I am so glad that he is doing better. You have put in a great deal of work with him. Here is hoping he continues to improve and does well when he is weaned off the medication.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Wow, I hadn't seen this thread before your update just now - I'm so glad he's doing so well!!


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Remaru said:


> I am so glad that he is doing better. You have put in a great deal of work with him. Here is hoping he continues to improve and does well when he is weaned off the medication.





BostonBullMama said:


> Wow, I hadn't seen this thread before your update just now - I'm so glad he's doing so well!!


Thank you both!


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