# Caucasian Ovcharka breed



## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Does anyone actually own one of these magestic creatures or know anyone who does? I've done a very extensive amount of research on this breed for the past couple years and am in the process of considering one but I'm not swayed in the least yet...

If you have any stories/share any info please do


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think that if you live in the Caucasian mountains you probably need one. And if you live in the suburbs or city you probably shouldn't get one. Or at least you should think about it real hard first. 

There is a member who has a few, but he doesn't really come here anymore. He might answer PMs, I don't know. Brad something.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Yep, Brad A. Love his dogs.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

What do you want to know? They are one of the greatest breeds IMO, prior to owning one I was a die hard Pit fancier ok still am but coming from me I say it says a lot of the breed. They are an excellent family dog, true natural guardian, great LGD and beautiful too!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

I want to know if they're suitable pets for a house with a lower fence yard located in a suburb close to neighbors etc...given proper socialization of course. Main reason I am hesitant is because I don't know if these dogs are suitable for regular family living...if that makes sense


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I would say no. These dogs are natural guardians, meaning they don't have to be taught to protect their family and property -- they just do it. I would not own one unless I had something I wanted it to guard. I definitely wouldn't own one in the suburbs, close to neighbors, with a low fence. That's asking for trouble, especially with curious neighbor kids running around.

Read these. Brad (BradA1878) posted some good CO information on them way back when:

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/65278-caucasian-ovtcharka.html
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/67821-my-dogs.html
http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/70132-do-you-own-guardian.html


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks so much for the links! After reading some more and really thinking about it I think I'll stay away from this specific breed for now. If in the future I move to a more rural place that I find suitable I probably will look into getting one.

What breeds would you guys recommend that are manageable but maybe not as "difficult" as a CO...I don't mind dealing with tough breeds but this one may be a little out of my element


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Tell us a little more about what you like! I'm assuming a large breed? Does coat matter to you -- do you prefer long or short? How much exercise do you plan to give the dog, and will it spend most of its time inside or outside? Do you have any kids/do you want the dog to be good with kids? Just give us a little bit of info about your situation and your likes/dislikes and we can probably help!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Sure thing!

I have no "coat preference" Personality is more important to me than looks
The dog would have a fenced yard and be taken on daily walks/socialized well in suburb streets as well as busy city sidewalks...not real "working" conditions though...more of a companion dog I'd be spending a lot of time with
I currently do not have kids but absolutely will in the future. The dog would have to welcome that

I don't mind dealing with training/socialization or even agression. I prefer a breed which has natural protective guard instincts but that is also suitable to live in a "normal" populated area. Obviously certain restrictions and responsibility would apply. (This is my main reason for NOT getting a CO) I do have a lot of work which I do so I can't dedicate all day to the dog. It would have to be okay by itself for some hours but it WILL be given daily exercise.

In essence I guess what I'm looking for is something similar to a CO but not as unmanageable as they obviously are not for everyone and require to be watched at all times


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

What do you think of rottweilers? They definitely have natural protective instincts (and as a large black dog, a rottie is a good visual deterrent), and are generally good with kids. A rottie would have to live inside with you, not out in the yard (I think that most breeds should live inside, really), but would definitely enjoy time outside and lots of exercise. Rotties are smart and trainable.

The Cane Corso is another choice. Brad has mentioned here that CCs are good family dogs. He linked this breed description before and said it was accurate. He also discussed his CC here:. I think they're a handsome breed, too.

Other potentials to research: Doberman, American Bulldog (not American Bully; they're different), Boerboel, Leonberger. The last two are described as good family dogs on their Wikipedia pages, although definitely do a lot of research into any breed you are considering, and make sure to ask breeders about their suitability as family pets in the suburbs.


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Don't forget the Boxer! 

And above all either rescue or get your pup from a responsible breeder who health tests and shows possibly.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

If you want something similar to the Caucasian in looks but is much more manageable, I'd go for the Leonberger. Possibly even a Saint Bernard, though they're more likely to be plain friendly and not much of a guard dog. But they'd do wonderful in your living environment. The thing is, you'd like a dog that is suitable for living in a normally populated area, with neighbors close by and all that jazz. A guard dog might not be the best choice. But that's my personal opinion. 

I myself am a fan of LGDs too, my favorites being the Sarplaninac, Estrela mountain dog and Mastin de los Pirineos, among others. The Sarpla is very similar to the Caucasian Ovcharka, though they're a bit milder in character. Even so, in a (densely) populated area, they wouldn't be a good choice, and since I live in a place where lots of people live close together, with or without dogs, that means it's not likely I'll ever get that dream dog. 

Come to think of it, there are only a couple LGDs I can think of that might do well where you live. I'd think of Mastin de los Pirineos or the Polish Tatra sheepdog (Owczarek Podhalanski). My mom has a Tatra living in her street (and they're terraced houses/townhouses) so lots of people in close quarters, also lots of dogs. The Tatra does fine, he's good natured. The breed description of the Tatra states they're calm, generally good with other dogs and people and quite biddable (for an LGD). The Mastin I mentioned is a breed that is generally good with other dogs and calm and friendly by nature--though it is a guardian breed and will protect if it perceives a threat. 

This said, I'm not sure whether these breeds are readily available where you live. 

Tatras: 















Mastins:


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

You also might want to check with your insurance agent cause some dogs are not covered.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks Avie! I think you hit the nail on the head of the "type" I'm looking for. I'm located on the East coast of USA. Do you have any links to breeders/resources for these types of dogs? I can see already this may be difficult!


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

There is an American breed club for the Tatra: http://www.ptsca.com/. I have to say that some points on their website do not reflect what is said in my encyclopedias and the Dutch breed club site for this breed. 

Also (to my surprise) there is a Mastin de los Pirineos breed club in America, but they call the breed Pyrenean Mastiff  Here's the link: http://www.pyreneanmastiff.org/ 
What they say about the breed's character on the site: 
_"3. Behavior and character: Meek, docile and extremely intelligent. It is very brave and fierce with strangers. It shows extreme benevolence with other dogs knowing of its strength. Should the time arise it is skilled at fight, remembering its acquired behaviour in the fight with wolves. It has a deep and intense bark."_

If you're interested, you could contact these breed clubs and I'm sure they'll be able to help you out. 

Oh, and also these: 
Leonberger club: http://www.leonbergerclubofamerica.com/
Saint Bernard: http://www.saintbernardclub.org/

And some more LGD breed club sites for you to browse through. 
Slovensky cuvac: http://www.slovenskycuvacusa.com/photos.html
Great Pyrenees: http://www.gpcaonline.org/
Estrela mountain dog: http://www.emdaa.com/
Caucasian Ovcharka: http://www.cocaclub.us/
Central Asian shepherd: http://cassa.homestead.com/
Kuvasz: http://www.kuvasz.com/
Akbash: http://akbashclub.com/
Mastin Español: http://spanishmastiffclub.org/
Kangal: http://kangalclub.com/
Anatolian shepherd: http://www.asdca.org/
Tibetan mastiff: http://www.tibetanmastiff.org/
Maremma: http://maremmaclub.com/
Some rarer breeds, like the Kraski Ovcar, Tornjak, Sarplaninac, Bucovina shepherd, Carpathian shepherd and Rafeiro do Alentejo, do not (yet) appear to have an American breed club, for I haven't found them.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Not an AKC registered breed yet, but an old German one that you might want to consider - the Hovawart. 

http://www.hovawartclub.org/faq.html


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Oh, and maybe this is way off your preference, but for a huge fluffy but friendly dog--there's also the Newfoundlander. 

And I agree with Winniec777 about the Hovawart, that might be something interesting as well.

















They also come in blond and all black.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the info...I'm definitely going to read through all of this...you guys are great!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Avie said:


> Some rarer breeds, like the Kraski Ovcar, Tornjak, Sarplaninac, Bucovina shepherd, Carpathian shepherd and Rafeiro do Alentejo, do not (yet) appear to have an American breed club, for I haven't found them.


I llike the Tornjak. If I ever had a large fenced yard in the country, I'd consider trying to get one of those. The temperament sounds great, plus I like the looks as well. This writeup is neat/amusing:



> During the walks, my tornjaks act like I'm their flock, they keep me on eye while not necessarily staying close to me. Sometimes I think they're letting me graze in peace. Even though they know and quickly learn basic obedience, any accidental observers would never think so, because each interruption of their usual area patrolling they consider as mistreating from the owner. Really sometimes their logic seems better than mine (though nobody asks that), when they look at me with those questioning stares, while standing 10 m in front of me and not moving a muscle even if I called them to come, I can't but think about the way story goes inside their heads: "Why coming back to you now when we're already headed in a right direction? Ain't it better that I wait for you to come here to me?".





> Agricultural work is also very popular with tornjaks, and that doesn't always please the owner. Each backyard should have at least one hole in the soil, size of at least one tornjak. Don't worry, you don't have to dig it, tornjak will do that for you. You also don't have to worry about trimming hedges, because tornjaks enjoy that, too. Sometimes he gets carried away, but "who works, makes errors", people say. And tornjaks seem to like this kind of work very much.





> So, tall and sturdy fence is very important. I've realized that after seeing my bitch jumping over it, because our tomcat had fought with another cat, and she thought he needed to be protected, like everything else that belongs to us. Once she found how, she jumped over for many times without any apparent reason, until we rose and consolidated the fence.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Just going to add a plug for Swiss Bernese Mountain Dog or Greater Swiss. We had a Bernese growing up and he was a truly incredible dog. SO gentle with children and babies (despite being 110 lbs). Very affectionate and sweet with dogs and people, does require exercise like any big dog but not a 'working dog' mentality. Just a gentle soul. 

Of course with any dog there is good and a little bad so here is the less than awesome stuff (its typical LGD things compounded by the fact that my parents arent really dog people). He was quite protective, especially as he aged of our property and us kids. As soon as someone was 'accepted' by the family everything was good but he developed issues with the front door which required management. Occasionally he would pretend not to hear us when we called him inside at night. Slow to mature he was a pest until he was about 2.5. Also he was a racist... not really an LGD thing just a weird quirk Buster developed.

Given half a chance I would love to have a Bernese again... definitely on my 'one day' breed list.
Swiss Bernese Mountain Dog









Greater Swiss


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## BlackShadowCaneCorso (Feb 3, 2011)

Do you mind if I ask what your experience is with guardian/working breeds? I am not trying to deter you but some require more experience than others and it would help to know what you are used to as far as dealing with breeds.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Sure thing,

I have been involved in dog training a fair amount and currently own a working line GSD. I realize guardian breeds are quite different but I am a very "strict" person so to speak. I set bounds and they're followed. I've also extensively researched different breeds/temperaments and the first thing I plan on doing upon getting the pup is enrolling him/her in puppy classes as well as doing a lot of positive reinforcement training. 

That said, I'm really looking into three breeds right now...

1. Estrela Mountain dog: I found a breeder who has been helpful but if anyone has information on this breed they'd like to share PLEASE do so.
2. Polish Tatra: Very intriguing breed but my knowledge is limited
3. Black Russian Terrier: I'm not terribly fond of the looks but these guys seem to have it all. 

If anyone has knowledge on these three breeds they'd like to share please feel free to do so!

You guys have been a TREMENDOUS help Thanks!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

One of the members here at DF breeds Black Russian Terriers: http://www.dogforums.com/members/prntmkr.html

Might be a good idea to drop prntmkr a message and ask more about the breed.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

I already shared the info I have on the Tatra  

About the Estrela: they tend to bark (a lot). It's part of the breed. I've read something somewhere, saying that 'like a Labrador retrieves, an Estrela barks'. You might want to keep that in might with regard to your neighbors  
That said, I love these star mountain dogs. There's a breeder in Sweden who's dogs I greatly admire, called Zoians.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> One of the members here at DF breeds Black Russian Terriers: http://www.dogforums.com/members/prntmkr.html
> 
> Might be a good idea to drop prntmkr a message and ask more about the breed.


Hi from Ontario, 
_eh_, Cran. :canada:


Thanks for the plug but, 
just for the record,
I am not a breeder...

And although our boy 
has been and will be bred,
quite frankly, the
chances of getting 
one of his puppies
are slim to none.

On the other hand,
like most of us here,
I'm always happy to 
share information. :wave:


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## BlackShadowCaneCorso (Feb 3, 2011)

cheebamaster said:


> Sure thing,
> 
> I have been involved in dog training a fair amount and currently own a working line GSD. I realize guardian breeds are quite different but I am a very "strict" person so to speak. I set bounds and they're followed. I've also extensively researched different breeds/temperaments and the first thing I plan on doing upon getting the pup is enrolling him/her in puppy classes as well as doing a lot of positive reinforcement training.
> 
> ...


Thanks I wasn't trying to say you aren't qualified but some of the breeds mentioned need more than just the basics and we have a lot of people in my breed of choice that thinking reading on the internet is enough experience to own one of these dogs (this in no way means I think you aren't as the breeds you are looking at are harder to find).

Brad has/had COs but isn't active all the time but can give you some great first hand knowledge of the breed as used to breed (although rarely and only when he needed a new guardian) but I don't know that he has many left since the move. He also had Boerboels and a Cane Corso so can provide knowledge on those as well. 



prntmkr said:


> Hi from Ontario,
> _eh_, Cran. :canada:
> 
> 
> ...


You are being far to modest when it comes to your breed knowledge! You have been a great source of information when I have asked about BRTs and other things like training and such.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

About the breed in your original post,.from someone that owns a large breed and weighs 160 pounds( Great Pyr) you have to remember these dogs are very large,a trip to the vet is not easy..we have to trailer him in the horse trailer,to big for my car,want fit in the cab of the truck and we dont haul our dogs in the back of a truck.So transoprtation is something to look at.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Bear2010 said:


> About the breed in your original post,.from someone that owns a large breed and weighs 160 pounds( Great Pyr) you have to remember these dogs are very large,a trip to the vet is not easy..we have to trailer him in the horse trailer,to big for my car...


Just sayin'....Holy cow!!


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks everyone,

Does anyone know much about Tamara Follet? I keep hearing negative things about her but I've been in contact with her for awhile and it really does seem she takes care of her CO's...they go through a TON of different tests and she backs her purchases with full warranty etc...I know there is controversy over that Nat geo clip that aired but I don't think she was really wrong with her assessment of the breed. They definitely AREN'T for most people. 

Anyway, I've contacted her and a couple other breeders who claim they've sold the CO's to people in suburban areas/cities etc and never had a problem if the dog was socialized. I've also talked to a couple people that have owned them that said that as long as there is extensive socialization and they're on leash, it's definitely possible to have in a neighborhood.

I'd like to be "over" the whole CO thing but something about them is extremely drawing to me. I would just hate to make a bad decision....If I don't go with a CO I'm almost definitely going for the Estrela or the BRT....choosing time.


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## BlackShadowCaneCorso (Feb 3, 2011)

cheebamaster said:


> Thanks everyone,
> 
> Does anyone know much about Tamara Follet? I keep hearing negative things about her but I've been in contact with her for awhile and it really does seem she takes care of her CO's...they go through a TON of different tests and she backs her purchases with full warranty etc...I know there is controversy over that Nat geo clip that aired but I don't think she was really wrong with her assessment of the breed. They definitely AREN'T for most people.
> 
> ...


PM Brad as he keep in contact with people in those breeds and to me is unbias when it comes to to an assessment. To me he tells it like it is and it might not be pretty but you know where you stand and has experience with the breed that you are looking hard at. Prntmkr is an awesome source of info on BRT but he is probably going to tell you something that you don't want to hear, that BRT aren't what they used to be  he has seen a huge shift in quality of dogs and he is right, I haven't seen it from the BRT angle but from my breed of choice the corso it is going down hill FAST!

My RAW food supplier has one (and she lives out in the country some) and while she loves her girl she said she wouldn't own another. They have done EXTENSIVE socializing and while she won't eat you she is not a dog they would be at all comfortable with having in a more urban setting. She is a beautiful girl and we have talked about her quite often while there as I have a good appreciation for COs and CAS but with that many people around it would make me leery of the situation.


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## cheebamaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Ah, looks like brad doesn't do private messages but i'll continue to read and mull


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

Hi OP! Let me do some searching and I will link you to Brad. He has a wonderful number of pics of his COs. the last time I checked he had like 5 or 6 of them, I believe. 

Also, there is someone else on this forum who lives in the suburbs and has a CO. Let me see if I can find that thread. hang on..


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

Here is his flickr link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brada1878/

You should be able to contact him thru flickr.


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

Here is a member who also got a CO as a pet:

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/40192-4-1-2-month.html#post417707


and here is pretty good website on CO's:

http://courageouscaucasians.com/shouldI.htm


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

I also wanted to throw the Boz Shepard into the pot. lol Here is a thread about them. They have the temperment that you are looking for and are HUGE. lol

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/100904-our-boz-shepherds.html


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Bear2010 said:


> About the breed in your original post,.from someone that owns a large breed and weighs 160 pounds( Great Pyr) you have to remember these dogs are very large,a trip to the vet is not easy..we have to trailer him in the horse trailer,to big for my car,want fit in the cab of the truck and we dont haul our dogs in the back of a truck.So transoprtation is something to look at.


Horse trailer? LOL crazy. My friend and I fit 4 COs in her SUV (Explorer). My dogs breeder uses a mini van. I guess it depends on the vehicle.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

having owned an LPD (for the goats we have here) i would have to say no to a LPD type in a suburban setting, but a leonburger, St Bernard, or even a collie (lassie) would be a good fit for a family.


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