# Iams?!



## thebunnyexpert (Jan 22, 2010)

Does anyone have an opinion on Iams dog food? Good Bad?


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## CorgiKarma (Feb 10, 2009)

There are better foods out there for the price. I prefer a food without corn, by-products, soy and chemical preservatives. Something meat-based and with named meat-sources.


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

there is very little meat content for your dog in iams dog food. it is mostly corn, which is difficult to digest and associated with many allergies in dogs.

considering iams is one of the pricier "low quality" dog foods, i would consider switching to something like california natural, which is a limited ingredient high quality food.

however, if iams is working for your dog, then there's no real reason to switch.


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## ruckusluvr (Sep 20, 2009)

Iams is NOT a good food. but, if you are going to walmart to get dog food, that is your best bet.
Iams has one that is "Iams healthy naturals" that isnt as bad as the regular iams. I have seen many dogs on it do well with a shiny coat and healthy skin. but it is not something that i am comfortable feeding.


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## PetCareBev (Jan 12, 2009)

Hi! Sorry to intrude. I work for Iams and would like to clear up a couple of things posted to this thread that are incorrect regarding Iams dog food. 

Soy is not an ingredient used in Iams dog food. 

Iams dog food is naturally preserved with mixed-tocopherols (vitamin E) and citric acid.

We use corn as a carbohydrate source, not as a protein source.

Our research has show us that dogs are best fed as carnivores, so protein in Iams dog food is animal-based, not vegetable-based. With the exception of our lamb diet and our weight-loss diets, chicken is the first ingredient in our Iams dog foods.

Again, sorry to intrude.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

my opinion is NO. end of story. 
I'll never feed it because of the things i've heard about it and all the ingredients in it. 
Although, since doing a lot of research, there's a lot of foods i'll never feed for this reason.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

Maggie came to us eating Iams puppy food. The same day we switched her to raw (with go kibble for when raw is not possible) That same week we noticed she was Butt scooting. We took her in to have her anal glands done...and she hasnt needed it since a year later. I am not a fan of Iams since...not that I was before


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Definitely not something I would ever feed my dog. You can do much better for the same price.


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## ruckusluvr (Sep 20, 2009)

actually you can do much better for cheaper!

Diamond Naturals
and
4 Health come to mind

(both found at tractor supply company)


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

If your only going to shop at Walmart, I would definitely get Purina One over Iams. Especially their canned foods. I have also heard some animal cruelty things about Iams.. and from more than one place.  I can't trust a company that doesn't care about the dogs they test their foods on. You would be much better off though checking out your local feed/tractor supply store for some better brands.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

I don't work for P&G. It is nice to see somebody admitting their employment. 

For those that look at ingredients, Iams flunks. For those that look at how well dogs eating it do, it does quite well. I fed it to 2 of the puppies we raised for an assistance dog school. As far as I could see, they both did very well as do any of the other dogs I have seen in the service dog programs that feed it. I know a number of programs that do. When you spend the price of a car training a dog before giving it away, you aren't going to recommend feeding it second rate food. And the service dog schools may have more info than P&G on what dogs thrive on. 

If it, Pro Plan, Purina, Eukanuba, and Purina 1 were junk, the dogs I have fed them to should have been noticeably worse than other dogs eating premium foods. I never remember seeing any dog in obviously better condition. My wife's friend breeds Shepherds. She also reps one of the premium brands. Her dogs are nothing special.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I can see a big difference in feeding crappy brands, like beneful and purina to feeding premium brands, like blue buffalo. I switched my Beagle to BB and she already acts less hungry and more enthused about life, where before she always wanted to eat and never wanted to do anything.


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

that's great that your dog does well on iams and purina. some people have dogs that do well on kibbles&bits and will eat nothing else because the food is so saturated in sugar. why would they want to eat anything else?

when it comes down to it, a food that never uses frozen ingredients, by-products, corn/brewer's rice as a filler, and consistently has a main ingredient of meat UNLIKE iams/purina/pedigree/kibbles&bits/etc. will ultimately be better for your dog, in my opinion.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

PetCareBev said:


> Hi! Sorry to intrude. I work for Iams and would like to clear up a couple of things posted to this thread that are incorrect regarding Iams dog food.
> 
> Soy is not an ingredient used in Iams dog food.
> 
> ...


Ok, so you don't use soy anymore, Corn is still a very hard to digest grain and is very poor nutritionally for dogs, even as horse or cow feed it is amongest the cheapest of ingredients nutritionally, a more nutritios grain such as BArly would be SO much better if useing grains as a carb (far more digestable and one of the richest grains nutritionally) Corn is also one of the most common allergens along with wheat, then rice is right behind them (though it's better nutritionally than either corn or wheat)

Iams uses both carmel and Fructooligosaccharides, sugars, which have NO business in a dogs diet as well as Chicken by-product meal, which has nearly no nutritional value. Notice the top three ingredients.

Compare your ingredients :

Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Caramel, Flax Meal, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract. 

To the ingredients of my favorite dog food.

Chicken, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Barley, Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Carrots, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Duck, Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Spinach, Parsley Flakes, Cranberries, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.


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## thebunnyexpert (Jan 22, 2010)

WOW, thanks for all the feedback, everyone! There's nothing wrong with my dog. I'm only asking because he's been eating it his entire life (9 years) and I just wanted to know different opinions.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Far from the best but not the worst(haha there is a LOT worse). A little grain heavy and they use the lower quality grains. 
We use wellness CORE dry food for Chocolate and scratch the grains alltogether. 

I do use canned Iams for my cat with raw supplementation(I do cat food a little differently). So I'll give them that, But I prefer to steer clear of the Iams dry products for either of my animals as I'm not big on the grains they use in them.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Corn is still a very hard to digest grain and is very poor nutritionally for dogs, Corn is also one of the most common allergens


Properly processed corn is quite digestible. 

It is only the leading allergen because it is such a common ingredient. 

I am really troubled by the continually posting of such misleading information.


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## CorgiKarma (Feb 10, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> Properly processed corn is quite digestible.
> 
> It is only the leading allergen because it is such a common ingredient.
> 
> I am really troubled by the continually posting of such misleading information.


I cannot tell you how many people I know whose dogs have been allergic to corn. Not even dogs that have been on a diet including corn for a long period of time. It's a cheap ingredient.

If Iams were to offer my dog a lifetime supply of food for free I would not take it. I would continue to buy a premium food.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Labsnothers said:


> I am really troubled by the continually posting of such misleading information.


That's basically all you do...


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> Properly processed corn is quite digestible.
> 
> It is only the leading allergen because it is such a common ingredient.
> 
> I am really troubled by the continually posting of such misleading information.


Misleading according to who?...You???


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

What is 'misleading' is telling someone that by "Properly processing" a grain, you can make it more digestible to a carnivore. What exactly is this process and how does it allow dogs to get anything more out of corn than they otherwise would?

Also.. if corn is such a common allergen because it's such a common ingredient.. why doesn't Chicken or Rice or any other number of incredibly common ingredients have the same occurrence of allergies? Why do Wheat and Soy follow corn on the list when they are far less common than Chicken/rice/etc?


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## mrslloyd09 (Jul 12, 2009)

People can't properly digest corn, how are dogs supposed to?

I like a food with actual ingedients in it, like the Wellness that I feed my girls, instead of things I can't pronounce and wouldn't feed my girls if they weren't in the food. I feel like if I wouldn't feed a particular ingrediant individually to my dogs, then I don't want it in the kibble that I'm buying.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

RBark said:


> That's basically all you do...[/QUOTE
> 
> Lol!
> 
> ...


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

I think what Labs means by properly processed, is corn that is ground up... I suppose the ground up corn is then considered 'easily digested' simply because you can't see the kernels in the poo.

It's interesting, I think, that when you switch a dog from a corn filler to a rice filler, their poo shrinks significantly, and when you switch them off of grains all together, it's even more noticeable! I wonder.. why would their be less waste on a food without that ever so digestible corn?


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

you wouldn't feed your dog whole grain corn, so why feed it in a different form? bad is still bad no matter what shape it takes.

please view dog food as the saying goes: "opinions are like a--holes, everyone has one." everyone also has a dog and a dog food that they are more than willing to recommend regardless if it will do well with your dog or not.

the key is to look at the ingredients. you do not want corn, brewer's rice, soy, or by-products. *anyone can argue, but those are not ingredients of quality.* do some research, test a few brands out, and see what your dog likes.

find something that works for YOUR dog and something you find financially reasonable


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

You guys claim to know something about dog nutrition? http://www.ddgs.umn.edu/articles-companion/2004-Hill- Alternative proteins in--.pdf


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

Labsnothers said:


> You guys claim to know something about dog nutrition? http://www.ddgs.umn.edu/articles-companion/2004-Hill- Alternative proteins in--.pdf


i have no earthly idea why you insist upon posting in every thread regarding dog food attempting to debunk the "corn and by-products are bad!" theory. 

i don't see how anyone could begin to argue. how do you figure that commercial dog foods (iams/purina/etc) even begin to measure up with never-frozen meats, high quality grains, and the absence of by-products? 

i'm a brand snob by no means, but when you look at the list of ingredients comparatively, you'd have to be blind not to see a substantial difference.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Labsnothers said:


> You guys claim to know something about dog nutrition? http://www.ddgs.umn.edu/articles-companion/2004-Hill- Alternative proteins in--.pdf


This article is nearly 6 years old!

I have only skimmed it but it seems the whole article is talking about what vegetable matter will be cheap to put into dog food. They are looking to save money, not to see what is best for the dogs.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

True blindness is ignoring how well most dogs do on high grain food. Just because something can be found 1000 times on the net doesn't make it true. Ever hear of the ''big Lie'' theory?


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## PetCareBev (Jan 12, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Ok, so you don't use soy anymore, Corn is still a very hard to digest grain and is very poor nutritionally for dogs, even as horse or cow feed it is amongest the cheapest of ingredients nutritionally, a more nutritios grain such as BArly would be SO much better if useing grains as a carb (far more digestable and one of the richest grains nutritionally) Corn is also one of the most common allergens along with wheat, then rice is right behind them (though it's better nutritionally than either corn or wheat)
> 
> Iams uses both carmel and Fructooligosaccharides, sugars, which have NO business in a dogs diet as well as Chicken by-product meal, which has nearly no nutritional value. Notice the top three ingredients....
> [/SIZE][/FONT]


I've worked for Iams for nearly 15 years, and in that time we've never had a soy ingredient in Iams or Eukanuba.

In Iams/Eukanuba, corn is very finely ground--more like corn bread, not like corn-on-the-cob. Our research into carbohydrates indicates that it is very digestible and a great source of energy.

Fructooligosaccharides, or FOS, is a prebiotic. Prebiotics feed (or support) the good bacteria, helping the good bacteria to grow. It’s found in a variety of foods, like bananas, barley, garlic, honey, rye, and wheat. It can also be produced commercially. We (Iams/Eukanuba) have used a natural form of this ingredient (which we source from Canada) in selected diets since 1994. FOS is a fiber that is broken down—or fermented–in the intestine by the good bacteria that live there.

Because it’s a fiber, FOS is not digested by the enzymes in the dog’s or cat’s digestive tract. Instead, the bacteria in the intestinal track break it down and use it for food. Here’s what’s really cool: Fructooligosaccharides does NOT feed the bad bacteria. So the net result is that FOS feeds the good bacteria and starves the bad bacteria, helping to create the right balance between good and bad bacteria.

A dog or cat’s immune system is influenced by the right balance of good and bad bacteria in the intestinal tract. If the good bacteria (like Bifidobacterium, and Lactobacillus) are outnumbered by the bad bacteria (like Salmonella and Clostridium), the pet may end up sick—probably with diarrhea.

We use chicken by-product meal because it includes the internal organs of the chicken. By industry definition, chicken by-product meal can contain the feet of the chicken – but that’s not an acceptable source of protein for us, so our suppliers make every effort to keep the feet out of our chicken by-product meal. In addition to this quality specification we set for our suppliers, we put it through a proprietary screening process to further improve its protein quality.

FYI to all, it is not my intention to spam you or "market" to you. In my opinion, you should feed the food that works best for your pooch. But I would appreciate being allowed to correct misinformation about my products and/or my company.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Labsnothers said:


> Properly processed corn is quite digestible.
> 
> It is only the leading allergen because it is such a common ingredient.
> 
> I am really troubled by the continually posting of such misleading information.


Horses and cattle have problems digesting corn and they're herbivores, of course if you PROCESS anything you can make it digestible, that DOES NOT mean it's nutritious or good for the animal you're feeding it to. 

As far as allergies go many other grains are just as common and prodiuce far fewer allergies than corn does. 

Corn is cheap, therefore it's used in CHEAP dog food; It's a filler ingredient as is beet pulp (which you also use in your dog food) to 'bulk up' the food, Bulked up food means more waste coming out of the dog and less nutrition the dog is getting, too much carbs and sugars in dog food leads to dog being overweight. This is basic nutrition 101 and can be applied to any species. 

I understand this is the company that pays you and you want to believe in what they're doing, but the ugly truth is it's mediocre quality at best and is often sold at premium pricing. I can say the same for Nutro and two or three other companies that are passing their products off as premium quality when they aren't. Fact is, I can get better food for considerably cheaper just by going to Costco and buying Kirklands Lamb and Rice formula or any of the formula's produced by Nature's Recipe or Diamond available at Petco, Petsmart and Tractor Supply Company.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

PetCareBev said:


> Fructooligosaccharides, or FOS, is a prebiotic. Prebiotics feed (or support) the good bacteria, helping the good bacteria to grow. It’s found in a variety of foods, like bananas, barley, garlic, honey, rye, and wheat. It can also be produced commercially. We (Iams/Eukanuba) have used a natural form of this ingredient (which we source from Canada) in selected diets since 1994. FOS is a fiber that is broken down—or fermented–in the intestine by the good bacteria that live there.


 
Actually they are the SUGARS that feed lactobacilli and YEAST. I know what they are as I'm currently studying nutrition. Let the dogs system get out of balance and they can cause as much harm as they do good. They are not prebiotic at all. Dogs can get a steady supply of them by eating high quality grains such as barley as well as from potato/legume products which do NOT produce allergies and it doesn't need to be added in a quality food. In fact nearly any high quality carb source will provide them.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Labsnothers said:


> True blindness is ignoring how well most dogs do on high grain food. Just because something can be found 1000 times on the net doesn't make it true. Ever hear of the ''big Lie'' theory?


How can you say that your precious high grain foods are any better than the grain free diets then? The baloney that you spout can be found a thousand times on the internet too. 

I know that the less you process something the better it is, so how can you say that HIGHLY processes corn is good for your dog? You post a link for an old study that came about only to find a cheaper source of protein for dog food and expect that is going to impress me and make me realize the "truth" about grains. 

Sorry, I am not blind and I am not ignorant, I am happy that I am providing my dogs with a healthy diet that doesn't doesn't contain grains.

Here is a quote from your article:



> For most pet food companies, it has been interesting times to say the least, and has had significant impacts on
> profitability. This paper will explore some of the reasons behind protein pricing volatility along with opportunities and challenges of using alternative proteins in companion animal foods.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

PetCareBev said:


> We use chicken by-product meal because it includes the internal organs of the chicken. By industry definition, chicken by-product meal can contain the feet of the chicken – but that’s not an acceptable source of protein for us, so our suppliers make every effort to keep the feet out of our chicken by-product meal. In addition to this quality specification we set for our suppliers, we put it through a proprietary screening process to further improve its protein quality


I seriously do not believe your suppliers make every effort to not include the feet. Don't they leave the feathers in the by-products too?


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

"Doing well" on a diet, to most people, means the dog is breathing and can stand up without falling over.

Just because your service dog organization uses it and vouches for it doesn't mean anything. To a service dog organization, a dog that can pay attention and walk around with it's owner and lay next to it doing specific training is a dog that's doing well. Most service dogs would not meet my criteria for performance. So a poor diet would not be noticeable on service dogs like it would on my own dogs.

I have never met a musher that feeds Iams. The dogs end up underweight, and have an energy level that amounts to a hour of exercise then crashing for a few days. Their bodies can't simply keep up with the energy demands. Switching my cat from Iams to Solid Gold Katz-n-Flocken turned my lethargic, sickly, way underweight cat into a cat that's never been healthier in her life (she was 12 with renal failure with doctors encouraging me to put her to sleep when I switched, she is 18 today and healthier than ever) . Switching Ollie, my Husky, from Solid Gold Barking at the Moon to Raw fed turned Ollie from a underweight, high-energy dog to a proper weight, high energy high endurance dog.

Most of the people on this forum, who participate in food discussions, have a higher criteria for their dogs than "being alive." That seems to be your criteria for dog food doing well.


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## PetCareBev (Jan 12, 2009)

With respect, I think we must agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as I said earlier the important part is to feed what you think is best for your dog.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

PetCareBev said:


> In Iams/Eukanuba, corn is very finely ground--more like corn bread, not like corn-on-the-cob. Our research into carbohydrates indicates that it is very digestible and a great source of energy.


LOL.. And here I was just kidding about the finely ground thing. So really.. THAT'S what you think makes it more digestible?? That's like saying sawdust is more digestible than chunks of wood.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

lol @ bink.


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## dieterherzog (Sep 28, 2009)

Hi, I must say that Labsnothers is quite right that properly processed corn is quite digestible. The outer kernel of corn is what is hard to digest - that's what comes out in your poop and little puppy's poop. The "meat" however, can be quite easily processed by the body. So ground up corn is in essence quite digestible. 

The problem then with corn is not digestibility but with its nutrient content (applicable for dogs) and the purpose of it being in dog food in the first place. 

* Corn provides more carbohydrates than protein and is made up of 70% starch. In order to process carbohydrates and turn it into nutrients for the body in digestive systems, you need to use amylase. Dogs have lower amylase enzymes, they do not even have salivary amylase - which means that a diet high in carbs can cause the pancreas to malfunction (the pancreas has the highest amylase concentration). 9.8% of corn is protein out of which 50 - 60% is digestible, the rest needs to be processed by ruminant intestinal bacteria which dogs do not have (they only have a short, single, acidic tummy). 

* Corn is low in calcium and high in phosphorus - all grains are. 

* Corn gluten meal has such high nitrogen content that it is now being used as an organic herbicide. What does excess nitrogen do? It causes the kidneys to work overtime in expelling excess nitrogen through urine. What happens to overworked kidneys? We all know what happens. Corn gluten meal = Science Diet K/D, how convenient. 

* The outer kernel of corn is not easily digestible and thus becomes a source of fiber. Even properly ground corn meal contains the outer kernel. More fiber = more poop = more feedings = more waste. And Iams has only 26% crude protein, so if a doggie craps a shitload of food he is consuming, how much nutrients is he really getting?

In conclusion, corn products can cause:
1) My dog's pancreas to work overtime
2) My dog to pee enough urea to destroy my lawn
3) My dog to poop molehills all over my yard

Therefore, my dog has no nutritional need for corn and I consider it a filler. 

Sources including referenced journals and articles which I did not pull out of my ass: 

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/6/1704S
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/turf/dog_lawn_problems.html
http://dogfooddemogirl.com/cornarticle.htm
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/dairy/facts/03-005.htm#energy
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/beef/as1238w.htm


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

dieterherzog said:


> Hi, I must say that Labsnothers is quite right that properly processed corn is quite digestible. The outer kernel of corn is what is hard to digest - that's what comes out in your poop and little puppy's poop. The "meat" however, can be quite easily processed by the body. So ground up corn is in essence quite digestible.
> 
> The problem then with corn is not digestibility but with its nutrient content (applicable for dogs) and the purpose of it being in dog food in the first place.
> 
> ...


Very informative! Thanks for the links with it!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

indeed, that was very informative. 

the point still stands though; no need/want for corn.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> True blindness is ignoring how well most dogs do on high grain food. Just because something can be found 1000 times on the net doesn't make it true. Ever hear of the ''big Lie'' theory?


You never know for sure until your try it all. Chocolate was supposedly healthy on pedigree. But thrived when switching him to higher quality food.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

RBark said:


> "Doing well" on a diet, to most people, means the dog is breathing and can stand up without falling over.
> 
> Just because your service dog organization uses it and vouches for it doesn't mean anything. To a service dog organization, a dog that can pay attention and walk around with it's owner and lay next to it doing specific training is a dog that's doing well. Most service dogs would not meet my criteria for performance. So a poor diet would not be noticeable on service dogs like it would on my own dogs.
> 
> ...


 Well said


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## RaeRae (Dec 1, 2008)

PetCareBev said:


> Hi! Sorry to intrude. I work for Iams and would like to clear up a couple of things posted to this thread that are incorrect regarding Iams dog food.
> 
> Soy is not an ingredient used in Iams dog food.
> 
> ...


Iams is GARBAGE with a capital "G." 

For the same price, you can purchase something that uses much higher quality protein sources, and is grain free. I fed Iams when I was dumb and didn't know anything. Now I know better and my dogs are THRIVING on TOTW and Fromm. On Iams they had allergies, stinky anal glands, ear infections, was always running to the vet for something. 

And here is another thing to consider:

When my dogs were eating Iams, they required TWICE the amount they require of TOTW and Fromm to just maintain weight. My big dog was eating 5-6 cups of Iams a day and now eats about 3 cups of TOTW or Fromm. He is in MUCH better condition now - shiny, healthy, sleek, perfect weight. Dogs are designed to eat high quality, whole proteins. Not feathers, hair, and corn. 

It seemed on Iams there was always a dog having to run outside with diarehea, or there were the ear infections and impacted anal glands, and endless shedding and itching. 

You save money big time in the long run if you just feed a good, high quality food, and not the garbage like Iams, Science Death, Purina, or other junk brands.


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## RaeRae (Dec 1, 2008)

Labsnothers said:


> True blindness is ignoring how well most dogs do on high grain food. Just because something can be found 1000 times on the net doesn't make it true. Ever hear of the ''big Lie'' theory?


Oh I've seen a lot of dogs "doing well" on garbage dog food, but "well" means the dog is alive and running around the back yard. To *me*, "well" is described as much more than that. 

I fail to understand how some people think that garbage does NOT affect our pets? How can it NOT? Certain species have evolved for eons to eat certain types of food. The farther you move outside of that, the more problems you have. It is NOT NORMAL to take a dog to the vet for teeth cleaning and anal gland expressing!  People believe these are just normal grooming techniques good for health and vitality. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Expressing anal glands can cause damage to sensitive tissues and cause the animal to lose muscle tone. It starts a vicious cycle where the dog cannot naturally express these glands while defecatating. They go the vet every 6 months for expressing and the vet, and the owner think this is ok. It's not ok! 

In the natural/healthy state, the dog eats almost primarily meat and bone material, some amount of connective tissue such as cartilage and tendon, etc. This makes for significantly smaller/firmer poops than what most domestic dogs have. When you bulk up their diet with useless fillers like grains and beet pulp, the poops get softer and "fluffier" or runnier. When this poop is passed, it does not exert pressure on the anal glands and therefore excrete the fluid naturally through the defecetation process.

But people will always think the dog is doing "well" just because he's alive and running around the backyard.


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## ruckusluvr (Sep 20, 2009)

great post!


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan? 

If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Labsnothers said:


> If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan?
> 
> If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


Food is not going to change your dog's outward appearance. For a human comparision, a lot of my coworkers look ripped with 6 pack stomaches and huge muscles. They eat nothing but junk food every day. I am similar, but I eat healthy 90% of the time. The difference is in performance, not looks.

Your dog meeting conformation standards has to do with his breeding, not what he eats. It's not rocket science. If you want to see what people feed dogs, don't look at conformation breeders who only need their dogs to be at a healthy weight. Look at sport dogs like Schutzhund dogs, Mushing dogs, etc.


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## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

RaeRae said:


> Oh I've seen a lot of dogs "doing well" on garbage dog food, but "well" means the dog is alive and running around the back yard. To *me*, "well" is described as much more than that.
> 
> It is NOT NORMAL to take a dog to the vet for teeth cleaning and anal gland expressing!  People believe these are just normal grooming techniques good for health and vitality. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Expressing anal glands can cause damage to sensitive tissues and cause the animal to lose muscle tone. It starts a vicious cycle where the dog cannot naturally express these glands while defecatating. They go the vet every 6 months for expressing and the vet, and the owner think this is ok. It's not ok!


I'm quite curious how you came about this information. Most dogs these days are not out scavenging for rabbits, squirrels and other varmints eating the entire body and bones of these creatures where the bones may be helping with cleaning the teeth. Periodontal disease is a real threat to dogs/cats who may not be into eating bones and chew toys and if we, as owners, don't attempt to keep them clean ourselves or have a vet do it, we're setting them up for possible organ damage and rotted teeth to affect their entire health. I brush my dogs teeth twice a week to elimnate the possible problems he could have by not taking care of his teeth. 

Some tings we have no control over-such as cancer and DM or hip dysplasia but their teeth is one area where I have some control and can ward off future health problems by doing something he can't.


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## RaeRae (Dec 1, 2008)

I got that information from the various vets and dog owners/breeders/trainers who have informed me over the years that if dogs are eating a healthy diet, which does include chewing on raw bones, as well as the fleecey and rope toys which clean teeth, they shouldn't need to be cleaned by a veterinarian. And it's been proven to be true in my own dogs.

But I agree that dental health is very important, and if your dog isn't getting everything he needs to chew on and keep the teeth clean, then supplemental cleaning is necessary. I'm not saying to NOT clean or brush teeth, I'm just saying that it should not be necessarily and should not be the "norm" if the dog was eating a diet that consists of foods which naturally clean the teeth. (And obviously the teeth cleaning chews and toys help also)


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## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

The problem with my dog is he chews very little, gulping his food(Innova) more than chewing and isn't into chew toys either. Basically, he's just lazy in many ways so, I have to brush them either with a brush, gauze or both. Every three months I go in to the vet and she scales them if necessary then cleans them in a similar manner as I do. All this eliminates having to put him to sleep in order to properly clean them and that always worries me so, I do what I can to eliminate that. He will, from time to time, chew the C.E.T. dental chews I buy for him but it's not frequent enough to keep plaque/tarter off.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan?
> 
> If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


It's possible you don't run into them because they're feeding the same things. so the dogs all look dull just the same. 

and just because people think you're dog is great, doesn't mean he's eating healthy or his coat is in tip top shape. people think my dog is great, but his coat is dull and he has allergies because of eating purina. unfortunately we can't afford to switch him to raw quite yet.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Labsnothers said:


> If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan?
> 
> If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


I know a lot of show dogs (in fact I own one, soon to be two). The diet will vary as much as it does on here. Our handler fed raw to all the dogs she handled. My breeder feeds IAMs, I know people that feed all over the spectrum. My show dog is fed TOTW right now but he looked best on raw, honestly and that's what he ate while showing. BUT what you don't see is no matter what brand show people use to feed they supplement like crazy. Even if they feed a grocery brand they're not feeding it like a 'normal' person would. They're many times adding nutrients and such to the food.

You will see lots of purina or iams around yes, but often those companies sponsor the shows so of course they get a booth.

Most performance people I run into in agility, etc feed higher end foods.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Slick50 said:


> The problem with my dog is he chews very little, gulping his food(Innova) more than chewing and isn't into chew toys either. Basically, he's just lazy in many ways so, I have to brush them either with a brush, gauze or both. Every three months I go in to the vet and she scales them if necessary then cleans them in a similar manner as I do. All this eliminates having to put him to sleep in order to properly clean them and that always worries me so, I do what I can to eliminate that. He will, from time to time, chew the C.E.T. dental chews I buy for him but it's not frequent enough to keep plaque/tarter off.


Chewing kibble doesn't help keep teeth clean. Dogs teeth is designed to tear and shred meat. They don't have the bacl molars like us for chewing things. 

Have you tried raw bones? Deer antlers? Both help a lot.


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

Like most of you I would never feed Iams, it just is not the kind of food I want my dog on. I want her to be healthier in the long run, and to live a long happy life. I fed Iams once, when I first got my dog, she itched all the time non-stop, she still itches but on BB she does much less of it. I am still trying to figure out if absolutely no grains will get it to go away. 

My husbands grandparents fed Kirkland, it is a low end middle food I would say? So since I have gotten my husband into the whole food thing, he convinced them to feed BB. They are older dogs, one has arthritis, and they had to give him pain supplements because he had a hard time getting up and after a walk he was always stiff. They are both Border Collies and are well behaved for the most part and have always been walked 3 miles on average every day. The only problem is one is over weight and has had fatty tumors (small ones). I also noticed that the poop in the yard was soft or diarrhea and yellowish. After switching they haven't had to give any pain meds to either of them and the male hasn't had a hard time getting up. They were completely amazed that feeding a better dog food caused that big of a difference, and are very happy with the results.

There is no way that Iams or other low end brands can compare to well rounded foods. A dog is not meant to eat corn, that is not what wolves eat in the wild so why should I give it to a dog?! There is a reason they don't eat it in the wild!


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## dieterherzog (Sep 28, 2009)

Slick50 said:


> The problem with my dog is he chews very little, gulping his food(Innova) more than chewing and isn't into chew toys either. Basically, he's just lazy in many ways so, I have to brush them either with a brush, gauze or both. Every three months I go in to the vet and she scales them if necessary then cleans them in a similar manner as I do. All this eliminates having to put him to sleep in order to properly clean them and that always worries me so, I do what I can to eliminate that. He will, from time to time, chew the C.E.T. dental chews I buy for him but it's not frequent enough to keep plaque/tarter off.


I'm not sure when you got your dog, but it is my understanding that if puppies are started on raw at a very early age (like dogs out in the wild), they don't develop the habit of gulping. 

The problem with domesticated dogs these days is that kibble is so small that they don't NEED to chew, thus eliminating the production of salivary enzymes - lysozyme is the enzyme that helps keep dogs' teeth clean. Chewing and biting stimulates saliva production. 

If you want to train your dog how to chew properly, toss him a big, raw beef back rib bone. You'll see the real canine nature in him. (Make sure he has no food aggression issues! You want to be able to take the bare bone away from him). 

Just try feeding a bone every week for a month, your dog's teeth will be shinier than having had it scaled! 

My dachshund (a breed notorious for teeth problems) is 3.5 years and has had shiny teeth for as long as I've been feeding raw.



Labsnothers said:


> If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan?
> 
> If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


My in-laws fed Nutro for the longest time. Their dogs looked beautiful to the untrained eye - then all kinds of problems crept up: their 5-year old female dachshund (from a breeder) had kidney problems and tumor on her forehead. She was also overweight and had back issues. Their 8-year old male dachshund (from a rescue) had a tumor, heartworms and is on some kind of crazy medication for some weird illness. They recently got another puppy and they're all of them on Science Diet K/D. They all had to go under anesthesia for teeth cleaning recently. 

My point is that your dog can _look_ hale and healthy if it was bred right to begin with. Dogs have a crazy resilience towards their environment which allows to survive better than we humans can. Strays can survive on scraps till they're about 3 or 4 if they don't contract rabies or get hit by a truck. I'm sure companion dogs can look completely healthy on a diet of scraps if they were groomed, bath and cleaned properly, don't get rabies, don't get into dog fights and don't get hit by the neighborhood SUV.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Labsnothers said:


> If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan?
> 
> If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


I am tall, slender, and have a nice rack. I eat lots of fast food, and NO fruits or veggies. If you saw me you would probably switch yourself to a MickyD's/Taco Bell diet because I am "doing well"


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

PetCareBev;718937
FYI to all said:


> I don't feed Iams, no offense but it's not my idea of a quality food for my dogs but I appreciate the fact you gave us your information about Iams without shoving it down our throats. Thanks!


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan?
> 
> If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


Everyone things my 10 year old is a puppy


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## ruckusluvr (Sep 20, 2009)

most people that i know who show dogs feed pro plan
but the also add fresh chicken AND about 5 supplements. I have spend the best years of my life dishing out food and supplements to 50+ comformation collies. Not bragging. i quit my job, didnt agree with things going on...

just saying.

and their little click of people all did the supplements, chicken, and pro plan too.
Those dogs DID look great. and I think that they looked better than the other dogs out in the ring. I am not saying that it was due to the food, but maybe the supplements?


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## HersheyPup (May 22, 2008)

groovygroomer777 said:


> i am tall, slender, and have a nice rack. I eat lots of fast food, and no fruits or veggies. If you saw me you would probably switch yourself to a mickyd's/taco bell diet because i am "doing well"


roflmo!


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## Madelyn (Jan 30, 2010)

Labsnothers said:


> If dogs do so much better on premium food, why do I never run into ones that look much better than the ones I am feeding Iams or Pro Plan?
> 
> If I do the booth at the conformation show again this year, I think I will nib around and try to see what sorts of dog food bags are setting around. Funny how many people talked about what a great dog my Iams eating Tux was and how we should be showing him.


My dog was on ProPlan before switching to Wellness and Orijen...she physically looks very obviously better after the switch. She is much shinier and softer, no longer has tear stains, and her skin is perfect (on proplan it was very flakey). She was also hard to keep weight on with the PP, always looked too skinny. Just from these physical differences I would never go back to what I consider to be a low quality food.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

How come we never get to see any pictures of Labs dog?


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Binkalette said:


> LOL.. And here I was just kidding about the finely ground thing. So really.. THAT'S what you think makes it more digestible?? That's like saying sawdust is more digestible than chunks of wood.


Oh Rock on! LOL!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't know, but I would enjoy seeing some too.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> I don't know, but I would enjoy seeing some too.


Labs has two pics of dogs out of ALL of his dogs on Dogster under the name Aster...Aster & Tux that is all you will see there.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

dang. over 16 dogs and only two pictures.  they're cute, anyway.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Binkalette said:


> How come we never get to see any pictures of Labs dog?



yes show us please


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