# RMB questions



## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I just gave my 2 Shih Tzus raw chicken wings for the first time ever. I have resisted raw for YEARS. I'm still going to feed kibble with canned. This will be a once a week teeth cleaning thing. So I have a couple of questions: 

It's dinnertime right now and they just finished the RMB. Is that their dinner? I've read that raw and cooked digest at different rates, so..... not sure what to do.

How long will it take to clean their teeth? My older Shih Tzu (6 year old Gingerbread) is the one with bad teeth. I looked at them just now and they're the exact same- lots of plaque on the back teeth.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

My vet told me the chicken replaces their regular meal. Dunno how long it takes to clean their teeth. I decided against feeding chicken wings regularly, and started getting dried roo bones and bully sticks instead. They take longer, so they have more of a cleaning effect, and they are less messy than raw, and it doesn't replace a regular meal.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Thank you, I guess it's their dinner then. I think that'll be fine once a week. Bullysticks made absolutely no difference. They ate the chicken wings on our balcony and I was surprised that there was really no mess. But we might have different definitions!


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Have you tried brushing them? I just do a quick brush every day, part of our nightly routine.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Yes, I've done lots of tooth brushing! Also tried Petzlife gel, nylabones, hartz dental bone, rawhides, nylabone edibles, dehydrated chicken, dehydrated sweet potato, bully sticks, dentastix...


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

I've never done chicken bones, but since I only give a raw bone about once every week or two I go ahead and feed their next meal of dog food but I do reduce his scoop by about half. The bone probably accounts for a whole meal, but since it's not often I don't worry much about it. And on the subject of how fast their teeth will clean up: my dog's teeth looked as good as if they had been pro cleaned after 2 or 3 small beef soup bones. (And they were pretty plaque covered... lots of brownish build up stuff.) However, the soup bones are very hard and less meaty than others so that's probably why they cleaned up so fast. Different types of bones may have different results, not really sure. Give it a couple of weeks and take b & a pics and see how they look.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

If your six year old Shih Tzu's teeth have a lot of plaque on them, you may have to take her to the Vet for a dental. The five year old Shih Tzu x Maltese that I got to find a home for had really bad teeth. When I took her into the Vet to be spayed and have her teeth done, they had to pull 16 of her teeth. I found her a good home and now that her teeth are done, they should be able to keep them clean with brushing and feeding her bones.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

This is what i have noticed.

Feeding RMB once a week to a dog with already bad teeth will manage them. As in they will not get any worse, they may get slightly better but its not going to make them into puppy sparkle whites. Bad teeth is also genetics and something i know a lot of zu owners have issues with.

For me (not saying you should just showing you the flip side) when i got Abe he was 12 months old and his teeth were terrible. He is now 2 years old and after just a few months of being completely raw everyone comments on his white teeth!


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Hmmm, thanks katie lou for answering my question. I was hoping that once a week rmb would be enough to get the plaque off. Sigh. 

kyllobernese- I had his teeth cleaned a couple of years ago. I'm hoping to avoid him going under anesthesia every couple of years.

I think I'm going to get a tooth scaler. It's looking like that might be the only thing that will work.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

It will for sure at least stop them from getting worse.

If you had them cleaned and then kept them on RMB maybe twice a week, with something that takes them a good while to chew. Mine love turkey necks (chicken backs would probably be good for your size) then you will probably be able to keep them that clean and not need another cleaning.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

oh, the joys of having dogs with bad teeth. More of mine have had yucky teeth than not


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't think chicken bones last long enough to do much. It is the repetitive scraping that does the work, not some sort of magic in the bone. Try something that lasts longer - my favorite was those long BBQ beef ribs. It takes my dog half an hour to clean the soft stuff off and the tough membrane covering the bone has to act like floss.

Turkey necks would work too but that is a huge amount of food. One is more than a whole day's worth for 38 pound Max.

Pig feet? The skin is really hard to chew up and they aren't as fatty as you would think, the white stuff inside is more cartilage/tendon than fat. Max doesn't think much of these, they are too much work for him.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

how about dividing the meals....feed kibble in the morning and give your dog an edible bone or a beef rib for dinner....see how the teeth look after a month or two and then decide.....


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Beef ribs do more for my dogs' teeth than chicken quarters do. I don't know how well a Shih Tzu can handle a beef rib, but I don't think they're too big. Shug had terrible teeth when my mom got her, now that she gets raw ribs now and then her teeth are shiny clean.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Artie is a 20 pound terrier mix and he did just fine with beef ribs. I don't mean for all the bone to be eaten here. A smaller one served as dinner for him and he didn't have any upset after.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Ohhhh, everyone has always said chicken wings, so I've got chicken wings in the freezer. I forgot to mention that my dogs also have those hard, indestructible bones that you can find a Petsmart. I think they might be cooked soup bones, not sure.

Really, I think I'm going to get a tooth scaler. I've done nothing but worry since I gave my dogs the chicken wings. Something about swallowing ANY bones makes me very nervous. 

And thank you devilmafia! My dogs are my pride and joy.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

Lol and I am the opposite. If my dogs ever get kibble I feel horrible for days.


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

katielou said:


> Lol and I am the opposite. If my dogs ever get kibble I feel horrible for days.


Lol same here!! My boys LOVE their raw food, and I love being able to give it to them!. 

To the OP, be VERY careful as to the bones that you say your giving to them from petsmart, cause if they ARE cooked then they shouldn't be fed!:wink:


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

luvntzus said:


> Ohhhh, everyone has always said chicken wings, so I've got chicken wings in the freezer. I forgot to mention that my dogs also have those hard, indestructible bones that you can find a Petsmart. I think they might be cooked soup bones, not sure.
> 
> Really, I think I'm going to get a tooth scaler. I've done nothing but worry since I gave my dogs the chicken wings. Something about swallowing ANY bones makes me very nervous.
> 
> And thank you devilmafia! My dogs are my pride and joy.


i love shih tzus...had four of them up to a few years ago. i wish i knew then what i know now.....but i do have a pug and he's got the same kind of teeth....crooked and all that...and they are also known for having bad teeth....

chicken wings should do fine....and a beef or pork rib on occasion should do fine...some small dogs can eat pork ribs..most small dogs can not eat beef ribs, but they can gnaw them to death...and it gives them something fun to do..


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Do larger dogs usually eat beef ribs? My dogs don't. . .not even Moose and he's 110 pounds. They just gnaw on them for a week or so until I throw them away. Now and then Toby will find a weaker bone and manage to eat some of it, but mostly they're just for chewing on.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Willowy said:


> Do larger dogs usually eat beef ribs? My dogs don't. . .not even Moose and he's 110 pounds. They just gnaw on them for a week or so until I throw them away. Now and then Toby will find a weaker bone and manage to eat some of it, but mostly they're just for chewing on.


some dogs can power through them. we feed them because we don't want them to eat the bone....it's a toothbrush for our dogs


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

katielou said:


> Lol and I am the opposite. If my dogs ever get kibble I feel horrible for days.


It's funny how different opinions are! I'm mostly scared of the bones puncturing something. Even though they aren't cooked, they're sharp. It seems that beef ribs would be too much for an 11 lb. and 8 1/2 lb. dog. It seems like something they could crack a tooth on, like weight bearing bones.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

luvntzus said:


> It's funny how different opinions are! I'm mostly scared of the bones puncturing something. Even though they aren't cooked, they're sharp. It seems that beef ribs would be too much for an 11 lb. and 8 1/2 lb. dog. It seems like something they could crack a tooth on, like weight bearing bones.


I don't know. . .the raw ribs are really kind of softish and pliable (as far as bones go LOL). Softer than a dog's teeth, I think. I suppose there's some risk of damaging a tooth (same as with Nylabones. . .Toby chipped a tooth on his Nylabone), but I don't think it's a big risk. And probably safer than the anesthetic for a dental.


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

Willowy said:


> ... And probably safer than the anesthetic for a dental.


And cheaper!


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

i agree with willowy.....

beef ribs aren't meant to be eaten, that's the beauty of them...they are not like weight bearing bones...at all...they are spongy, not that they bend in the middle....but if you don't want your dog to have bad teeth, they are the best toothbrush there is without the chemicals they use for other things....

if you feed kibble and your dog isn't used to raw meat, strip the bone of most of it, leaving just enough for your dog to play with...it's more of a work out for your dog's teeth and jaw and muscles of the face....

the bones you get from stores...those are from weight bearing animals and are dangerous


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## kelii36 (May 7, 2011)

I feed my puppy chicken legs or turkey necks in the morning for breakfast. He also loves chewing on beef ribs between meals. So far his teeth are still sparkly white


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

So it would be ok for me to feed raw in supplement with their kibble? I feed yogurt wih their food now but i would love to feed perhaps one raw meal a wk or supplement their kibble with raw things, i have a blender though i really don't want to use the human blender to make dog soup lmbo. I have read somewhere of owners using ground beef but the cheap stuff, which would that be? We have a meat market here in town, could hey help me get bones?


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> So it would be ok for me to feed raw in supplement with their kibble? I feed yogurt wih their food now but i would love to feed perhaps one raw meal a wk or supplement their kibble with raw things, i have a blender though i really don't want to use the human blender to make dog soup lmbo. I have read somewhere of owners using ground beef but the cheap stuff, which would that be? We have a meat market here in town, could hey help me get bones?


everything i've studied about nutrition for dogs says don't feed dairy.....i won't ever tell a person not to feed dairy, but it's a real gas causer and a dog's digestive system is so acidic that any of the 'good' bacteria that benefits us does not benefit them...actually it's one of the greater causes of sibo and ibd....in dogs..

but sure, you can supplement with raw. i wouldn't feed it at the same meal...and why do you think you'd have to use a blender...

what size dog do you have?.....that would determine what you can feed as edible bone although beef ribs, often work out just fine...with a chicken wing thrown in or a boney part of the chicken as a meal. you can do one meal raw and one meal kibble if you desire. it's not recommended that you feed them at the same time because they have different digesting times..

hamburger has a wide surface for bacteria...those of us who feed prey model don't feed hamburger because it requires no work on the dog's part. and we want them to work their teeth, their tongues, their gums, their jaws, their necks....hamburger doesn't do a thing for getting white teeth.... 

make life easy for yourself...

give your dog kibble in the morning, or kibble in the evening and give your dog a boney chicken neck or leg...depending on the dog's size. don't want to give too small if you have a german shepherd....

but you don't need a blender....and you don't need to mix anything...kibble for one meal, boney piece of chicken, pork rib, beef rib, lamb rib, any kind of rib, for dinner or vice versa.....


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I talked to my husband and he thinks it's fine for the dogs to eat the chicken wings whole. That made me feel better. I also googled "RMB punctures" and couldn't find anything. So it looks like today or tomorrow I'll give them each another chicken wing. I'm thinking maybe twice a week might be good enough (hopefully) to clean their teeth.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I red something on the web a while back that meats could be blended into a soup & poured over kibble, I need something to mix with their kibble that isn't canned food, I read that yogurt was good for them, now its not? I'm so confused lol. I used to feed ground beef but not anymore? 

Is there anything that I can put with their kibble that is good for them hat is affordable?


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

the thing with chicken, especially chicken, which is why we start with chicken...is because their bones are very porous and soft...even though you'll still cringe at that first crunch.....even though you'll cringe if you see it in their poo or if they hork it up the first few times....and don't let that stop you....it's normal for that to happen, until they get used to raw food.....the benefits outweigh the 'i'm killing my dog' feeling......

i know that's how i felt as i watched my pug swallow an entire drumstick and hork it back up....that was my first experience with raw feeding; and, at the time, didn't know that they no more know how to eat raw than i knew how to feed raw...it took a few weeks, but eventually everything turned out fine....my pug is afraid of no bone...and there isn't a food he won't eat 



dogdragoness said:


> I red something on the web a while back that meats could be blended into a soup & poured over kibble, I need something to mix with their kibble that isn't canned food, I read that yogurt was good for them, now its not? I'm so confused lol. I used to feed ground beef but not anymore?
> 
> Is there anything that I can put with their kibble that is good for them hat is affordable?


why do you need something to mix with their kibble?

yogurt is dairy. their digestive systems will kill anything beneficial before it ever gets to them...

if you want, you could i guess buy hamburger and mix it with kibble, many people do.

but everything i have ever been taught says keep kibble and raw separate because of the differing digestion times....cooked is another story, but i would not mix raw and kibble..i'd feed boney raw for one meal and kibble for the next....easy peasy.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Yogurt is dairy, but is widely recommended. I'm talking about plain yogurt that has live active cultures and no sugar.


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

After reading this thread I went to the store today looking for beef ribs. All I found were beef short ribs, which were pretty meaty with small bones - I'd say some were about the size of a quarter around, but of course thicker. Are they the right ones to buy or is there something different usually sold? They looked way too small to expect my dog not to swallow them whole.

My dog is about 30 lbs. She has a small head/mouth for her size but is a pretty aggressive chewer.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I think im going to supplement with bones for their teeth, phase the yogurt out & try eggs perhaps... I have never been so confused about what is good for my dogs, the more I learn, the more questions I have :S


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

luvntzus said:


> Yogurt is dairy, but is widely recommended. I'm talking about plain yogurt that has live active cultures and no sugar.


i know it is...but what is not known as much, is the probiotics are destroyed before they can do any good due to the high acidity and the pH of the dog's digestive system....



dogdragoness said:


> I think im going to supplement with bones for their teeth, phase the yogurt out & try eggs perhaps... I have never been so confused about what is good for my dogs, the more I learn, the more questions I have :S


i think you're getting confused because there is so much info and opinion out there and so little scientific study....and no manuals, really.

it's actually pretty easy...

protein. bone. organ.

that's it.

if you feed kibble, keep the two separate. feed raw at one meal and kibble at the next one. feed soft edible bone if you want the dog to eat the bone. feed beef ribs once they've gotten used to eating chicken and turkey bones.....so they don't get diarrhea....

and that's it. you don't have to worry about organ because you're not feeding totally raw...you are feeding kibble, and that gives them food quality and vitamins and supplements.

the only reason you would add boney chicken or lamb ribs or any ribs...is to clean their teeth. and give them a work out. 

pm me with any question or ask me here...believe me, i've been doing this a little more than a year. it took me a year to figure out that this was the way i wanted to go, so two and a half years later, i know more than i did, but less than i will.



melaka said:


> After reading this thread I went to the store today looking for beef ribs. All I found were beef short ribs, which were pretty meaty with small bones - I'd say some were about the size of a quarter around, but of course thicker. Are they the right ones to buy or is there something different usually sold? They looked way too small to expect my dog not to swallow them whole.
> 
> My dog is about 30 lbs. She has a small head/mouth for her size but is a pretty aggressive chewer.


you don't want short ribs. they're for you 
beef ribs are very common at grocery stores...just ask the butcher in the back and they are usually pretty cheap..your 30 pounder is close to the size of my dog.

i would start with chicken because your dog's teeth are soft and the jaw is not so strong......if you buy a whole chicken and cut it up and feed your dog the chicken back (carcass - minus the excess fat until she gets used to it) work up to beef ribs....beef is richer than chicken and it takes a while to get used to...she won't be able to eat the actual beef rib bone, but she will get a toothbrush session like you've never seen before


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

melaka said:


> After reading this thread I went to the store today looking for beef ribs. All I found were beef short ribs, which were pretty meaty with small bones - I'd say some were about the size of a quarter around, but of course thicker. Are they the right ones to buy or is there something different usually sold? They looked way too small to expect my dog not to swallow them whole.
> 
> My dog is about 30 lbs. She has a small head/mouth for her size but is a pretty aggressive chewer.


No, those aren't the right ones, not if they're that small. Just a rack of beef ribs, the kind people put on the barbeque. Usually there are 7 to a rack, the bones are about 8 inches long. I find them shrink-wrapped at Wal-Mart but I'm sure you can get them at grocery stores and butchers too.



dogdragoness said:


> I think im going to supplement with bones for their teeth, phase the yogurt out & try eggs perhaps... I have never been so confused about what is good for my dogs, the more I learn, the more questions I have :S


If your dogs do well with the yogurt and it helps them eat their kibble, no reason to change even if the probiotics don't do anything (which I'm not sure of. . .MagicRe--do you have any links about that?).

I sometimes give my dogs a raw chicken quarter for dinner. They don't have any trouble with that. But they are bigger than your dogs.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks willowy I have also read about yogurt causing IBD & such in dogs becsuse they can't digest dairy very well. I use cannon au natural plain yogurt (not the fat free), so that's ok? They do like eggs also but Izze was having itching probs with them, but now hzt I think back on it I think that it was the grainy food & treats I was giving her at the time that was causing the itches.

We have 10 hens, so eggs aren't in short supply here


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Only you can know if your dogs do well with yogurt. . .if they start developing IBD-like symptoms that would probably be the first thing to cut out.

Did you do raw eggs or cooked? Cooked eggs give my dogs such terrible gas! But they do well with raw eggs. One of my co-workers used to have chickens and would bring eggs in to work. But he quit chicken keeping and I don't have a source for the good stuff anymore!


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> you don't want short ribs. they're for you
> beef ribs are very common at grocery stores...just ask the butcher in the back and they are usually pretty cheap..your 30 pounder is close to the size of my dog.
> 
> i would start with chicken because your dog's teeth are soft and the jaw is not so strong......if you buy a whole chicken and cut it up and feed your dog the chicken back (carcass - minus the excess fat until she gets used to it) work up to beef ribs....beef is richer than chicken and it takes a while to get used to...she won't be able to eat the actual beef rib bone, but she will get a toothbrush session like you've never seen before





Willowy said:


> No, those aren't the right ones, not if they're that small. Just a rack of beef ribs, the kind people put on the barbeque. Usually there are 7 to a rack, the bones are about 8 inches long. I find them shrink-wrapped at Wal-Mart but I'm sure you can get them at grocery stores and butchers too.


OK, thanks. I asked my mom and she said they only sell pork ribs like that. I never bought ribs for myself, and I think my family usually buys pork ones, so didn't know what's usually available in beef.

I'm just doing it for her teeth. I was going to start with chicken wings but then saw other people talking about beef ribs, so that's why I was looking for them. There are 3 threads talking about this right now, so I guess I'm just getting confused. I'll pick up the chicken instead. (I thought I read that beef ribs stripped of most meat were an OK place to start.)


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Well, of course everyone has their own opinion. . .but if you're only doing it for teeth cleaning I do think beef ribs are best. I don't remove any of the meat and my dogs (and my mom's dogs who are a lot smaller and never get raw food otherwise) do fine that way. But they have cast-iron stomachs. If your dog is more sensitive removing the meat is probably a good idea.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I have a question about chicken. I have a 5yr old dog who had many ear infections as a puppy. One of the ingredients we keep him away from is chicken as it seems to be something he's sensitive to and no, we did no allergy testing. I'm assuming if I decide to try raw with him, I should go with something else other than chicken?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I would but many raw feeders think kibble chicken sensitivity isn't the same thing as chicken allergy. Since raw can upset the gut anyway why risk it says me.

Regional preferences with the beef ribs, here in southern California they are a staple. Maybe if you ever buy a bone in beef rib roast you could have the butcher bone it and give you the bones to give to the dog? I cannot find turkey necks and they are a staple item in other areas. A turkey neck lasts Max a long time but they are a big meal for him. He has had 2 in 3.5 years of raw feeding as any turkeys I buy get the necks simmered up for MY gravy.

For oodles of information on feeding dogs I love http://www.dogaware.com/index.html After the protein, fat, vitamins and minerals are taken care of it is know your dog and common sense mostly. If yogurt suits, then use some.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah I don't use very much yogurt, just enough for a little taste & such. I just want to do right by my dogs :S I don't see any bad things going on, the yogurt was the reason Izze ate the crappy food I was feeding before, but I just kept with it, Izze has been getting it for yrs & I see no adverse change in her or puppy.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> Yeah I don't use very much yogurt, just enough for a little taste & such. I just want to do right by my dogs :S I don't see any bad things going on, the yogurt was the reason Izze ate the crappy food I was feeding before, but I just kept with it, Izze has been getting it for yrs & I see no adverse change in her or puppy.



if you want to feed yogurt....by all means, feed yogurt 

in my world....dogs don't eat dairy, as it upsets the balance of their digestive systems....

to the poster who talks about chicken sensitivity...my dogs could not eat chicken in kibble. made them vomit and their poo was awful. when i home cooked for them, they ate chicken just fine and now they eat raw chicken just fine.

but if giving raw chicken bothers you, then by all means you don't have to feed it.

i think we're getting away from what the op wanted, which was a tooth cleaning agent.....beef ribs are the best in my world for that....as are lamb necks and pork necks....and other inedible bone that is NOT weightbearing, such as femurs, marrow bones, soup bones, etc....cooked bones are a never feed your dog because they are too brittle bone....

so the suggestion was to feed a beef rib, which many dogs cannot ingest the bone, but can work the meat off. i was saying that since these dogs are fed kibble, beef from a beef rib might be too rich....so the idea is to strip off most of the meat and fat to avoid diarrhea whilst leaving some on to give the dog a tooth work out.

as far as dairy is concerned..yoghurt contains bacterias that are wonderful for us. that same bacteria can throw a dog's gut entirely off balance....
read orijen's white paper (just type orijen's white paper into google) or back track through this thread and i think i posted it in here somewhere...and even orijen, a kibble manufacturer for whom i respect says the same thing about fruits and veggies and dairy.

but again, these are your dogs....and you feed them what you want.....for real


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

OK, so I went to two more supermarkets looking for a beef rack of ribs, but didn't find any. I did find more substantial looking short ribs in one of them, so I bought them. I just wanted to post images here to see if people think they're OK. As you can see, they are pretty substantial but not very long. The butcher in the one shop said they don't usually sell a beef ribs apart from the short ribs or rib roasts.



















My dog is about 30 lbs.

And ever since I was cutting the meat off, Buffy has been following me around with such a look on her face. =P I don't usually buy red meat, so I think it got her pretty excited. I threw it in the freezer though and wanted to get opinions here before giving anything to her. Thanks again.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

superfresh doesn't carry beef ribs? they come in slabs....that is so strange...i used to buy them from acme or superfresh..and i forget the other one..

not sure what stores are there now, i've been gone sixteen years....but i am so surprised....

i think i would not feed your dog that bone....they look like riblets or baby back ribs....

what i'm recommending are bbq beef ribs....

and i am at a loss to advise you where to get them....only to say how surprised i am that supermarkets don't carry them in philly anymore.


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

OK, thanks. I've been to a Giant, Shop-Rite and Acme.


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

I'd give it a try, and in the meantime keep searching for what you think will be ideal.


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

Would the 4 inch size that Melaka just posted be appropriate for a shih tzu pup?


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

@Fuzzy Pants- I think it'd be okay.

I just found a perfect supply of raw beef ribs, cut especially for my dog  I've had to make do with pork necks and soup bones since I can't find the beef ribs in our area grocery stores so I called a small meat packing place in my area and asked if they sold bones for dogs and they do! Made to order, too, not just whatever they had on hand to get rid of. She asked pork or beef, what cut, and how long I would like them cut. Great service and very helpful! And they're only $1.19/lb which is AWESOME. I'm getting 3 lbs to start off and will likely make it over there once a month or two to replenish our supply. I'm so happy b/c I'd prefer to give him beef over pork if given a choice and the bones are just the perfect size and type.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

My vet told me that after 24 hours, the plaque hardens, so unless you're brushing or feeding raw every day, it won't help very much. I would think that once per week wouldn't make much of a difference. If you don't want to go totally raw, you can still give them a raw "snack" every evening. 

IMO if you're feeding grain free kibble, there shouldn't be any risk of different digestion rates. Grains definitely take longer to digest, but grain free kibble is meat anyways, so it should take just as long to digest as raw meat. So I wouldn't worry about feeding both raw and kibble in the same day. 

Perhaps you could give them like half a chicken neck as a "toothbrush" every evening in addition to their regular meals. I personally prefer necks and backs to wings because they've got a lot of knobbly nooks and crannies that can get up into your dog's gums as he crunches through them. 

I wouldn't worry about bones puncturing your dog's insides. The way they chew on the bones, they tend to grind them up into a pulp before they swallow. If they're breaking off big shards, chances are, the bone is too hard anyways. I'd stick to softer bones. All chicken bones are fine, the necks and backs of turkey are fine (Not sure about the wings, but I'm not comfortable feeding legs or breast bones of turkey), and beef ribs are great. Basil doesn't actually eat the whole bone, he just strips it clean and gnaws on the ends and kind of grinds them up a little. 



InkedMarie said:


> I have a question about chicken. I have a 5yr old dog who had many ear infections as a puppy. One of the ingredients we keep him away from is chicken as it seems to be something he's sensitive to and no, we did no allergy testing. I'm assuming if I decide to try raw with him, I should go with something else other than chicken?


What about starting with turkey? I've actually found a lot of necks and backs for cheap, and you can add in ground turkey to offset all the bone. I've also found whole turkeys for cheap on occasion and ended up with meals for like a month for Basil, lol!


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

Nargle said:


> My vet told me that* after 24 hours, the plaque hardens, so unless you're brushing or feeding raw every day, it won't help very much*. I would think that once per week wouldn't make much of a difference. If you don't want to go totally raw, you can still give them a raw "snack" every evening.


I wish I'd taken before and after pics to post here. 

For real, my dog's teeth were _grody_, I'm embarrassed we let it get that bad :doh: (money for pro cleanings was not in the budget and I guess I just wasn't paying attention and thought a nylabone or rawhide were sufficient). Over half of each tooth had a pretty good coating of yucky brown buildup and after reading here about raw bones being so helpful with their teeth I thought I'd try it before spending money we really didn't have for the vet clean them. After a couple of soup bones his teeth looked amazing. The buildup is _gone_. And I only gave him one per week for a couple of weeks and now just one every few weeks to maintain. Maybe it worked for my dog because he had soup bones which are very hard, I don't know. (BTW- we are switching to beef ribs since I was told the soup bones could possibly cause a broken tooth, though so far we've not had any problems, but better safe than sorry.)


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

^Yeah that^ Really, Shug's teeth were BAD when she came to live with my mom. We were going to have them professionally cleaned. After just one rib they looked a lot better. After 3 or 4 (given once a week) you wouldn't have known how bad they had been.


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## saharazin (Jun 15, 2011)

Very good thread. I'm making a list of the kinds of raw meaty bones that are the best for my lab mix. I was giving her the marrow soup bones. Ellie (20 mo) so far has had great teeth.


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

Maggie Girl said:


> I just found a perfect supply of raw beef ribs, cut especially for my dog  I've had to make do with pork necks and soup bones since I can't find the beef ribs in our area grocery stores so I called a small meat packing place in my area and asked if they sold bones for dogs and they do! Made to order, too, not just whatever they had on hand to get rid of. She asked pork or beef, what cut, and how long I would like them cut. Great service and very helpful! And they're only $1.19/lb which is AWESOME. I'm getting 3 lbs to start off and will likely make it over there once a month or two to replenish our supply. I'm so happy b/c I'd prefer to give him beef over pork if given a choice and the bones are just the perfect size and type.


Heh I'm glad I'm not the only one having trouble finding them in local shops - I was starting to feel that I was just dumb and not looking well enough (though I spent a good 20 minutes looking at every cut of beef I could find, and even asked the butcher once). I'm glad you were able to find them from another source, and cheap too!

I'll go searching some more during the week - I won't have a chance to give any to Buffy until next weekend now. I want to give her a good long time with it outside, while I'm home, since she's never had a raw bone before and I don't want to have to take it away from her before she's ready to give it up (never had any food aggression issues yet).


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

@melaka- look in the phone book for an area slaughter house/meat packer. I guess in some areas beef ribs just aren't sold in stores. Pork ribs are plentiful here but beef ribs are nowhere to be found. I was making do with soup bones and pork necks but will likely be sticking w/the beef ribs from now on since they're so cheap and the safest type anyhow. The meat packer is about a half hour away but it's en route to where I do a lot of shopping so it's fairly convenient for me. I'm just going to buy them for a month at a time for now.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

sure....those would be fine for a pup...

in all reality, the pup would probably not be able to eat a pork rib, either, if that's all you can get.

if the dog eats the bone, i wouldn't worry about it. make it a meal...

i had an eight pound shih tzu and i guarantee she would not have been able to eat the bone....short ribs are just too small and they could be swallowed by an overenthusiastic dog. i had to stop giving my pug short ribs for that reason. he just swallowed the whole thing.


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## Fuzzy Pants (Jul 31, 2010)

Thanks, guess I'll go searching to see if I can find some beef ribs. I think we're going camping again so it will be something nice to give my pup while we roast sausages over the campfire.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I guess I'll looking for some racks of ribs and/or turkey necks and backs.


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

I did finally find something called beef back ribs. They should be good, I think, because they are about 8" long, but they have so much meat on them that I'm going to have to trim off. I guess I'll have to figure out a good way to cook the meat for myself. The pack was about $10 for 7 ($3-something/lb.).










I did wind up giving her the beef short rib yesterday. She loved it and did eat the bone. I watched her the entire time though, she chewed it up real well. She hasn't gotten sick and her stool looks normal today. I imagine that she will be able to eat these bones too, unless they are a lot thicker than the other one I gave her (hard to tell with all that meat on them ). I also found a meat store near us, so I may check that out next time. Thanks again everyone for all the helpful info in this thread.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

melaka said:


> I did finally find something called beef back ribs. They should be good, I think, because they are about 8" long, but they have so much meat on them that I'm going to have to trim off. I guess I'll have to figure out a good way to cook the meat for myself. The pack was about $10 for 7 ($3-something/lb.).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


those are beef ribs....yay yay yay....sorry i didn't call them by their rightful name.....actually, i never called them that, although you're right. that's the right name....

oh, i'm so glad you found them. 

some dogs can power through them...ribs are fine. they are not weight bearing....


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

If you cut the meat off, season and slow cook it, then shred it up and add sauce, it would make tasty pulled beef bbq for sandwiches


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## gloria66 (May 11, 2011)

I'm just wondering if raw bones can cause diarrhea. I would love to give my puppy a raw bone (without any meat or marrow) for his teeth. He's almost six months old and has had diarrhea and soft stools on and off since we got him at nine weeks. We're in the process of transitioning him to a grain free kibble and we're very cautious about what we give him; no treats other than kibble and no table scraps.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

gloria66 said:


> I'm just wondering if raw bones can cause diarrhea. I would love to give my puppy a raw bone (without any meat or marrow) for his teeth. He's almost six months old and has had diarrhea and soft stools on and off since we got him at nine weeks. We're in the process of transitioning him to a grain free kibble and we're very cautious about what we give him; no treats other than kibble and no table scraps.


If you take all the meat off, I think the chances of upset tummy are rare.


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

Hi, sorry I keep resurrecting this thread, but I got so many good answers here.

I was just wondering what to do with the bone when Buffy doesn't finish it. Unlike the smaller bone I gave her last week, the bigger bone was more than she could handle in even two days. She chewed on it for about an hour the first day, but it still had some stuff on it. She tried to bury it, but I got it back from her, rinsed it off and stuck it back in a bag in the freezer. I gave it back to her today and she got most of the stuff off, but I rinsed it off again and put it back in the freezer. I mean, since it's raw, do I have to worry about it getting really gross and infested if she leaves it outside for a couple days? Thanks.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

melaka said:


> Hi, sorry I keep resurrecting this thread, but I got so many good answers here.
> 
> I was just wondering what to do with the bone when Buffy doesn't finish it. Unlike the smaller bone I gave her last week, the bigger bone was more than she could handle in even two days. She chewed on it for about an hour the first day, but it still had some stuff on it. She tried to bury it, but I got it back from her, rinsed it off and stuck it back in a bag in the freezer. I gave it back to her today and she got most of the stuff off, but I rinsed it off again and put it back in the freezer. I mean, since it's raw, do I have to worry about it getting really gross and infested if she leaves it outside for a couple days? Thanks.


it cannot get infested enough to gross out your dog or affect him...maybe it will gross you out 

what can happen, though, is as time goes by, the bone starts to dry out and then becomes brittle.....generally, if my dogs are done with a beef rib and have stripped it down to bone, if they leave it and aren't gnawing on it and they lose interest in it....i throw it out...


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

OK, thanks. Next time I give it to her, I'll let her leave it outside, then throw it away in a day or so.


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## gloria66 (May 11, 2011)

I gave my puppy his first raw bone today and he loved it. It just had a small amount of gristle on it which he managed to get off. Is it the gristle that gets their teeth clean? Will just chewing on the bare bone accomplish the same thing? I'm also uncertain as to how often or how long to let hims chew on a bone.


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

It depends on the type of bones you're giving them. I give mine either a soup bone or beef ribs (preferably ribs now). I let him chew on them for as long as he wants, and he usually still likes to gnaw on them a good while after he's cleaned them of the "good stuff". He's got a soup bone that is over a month old that he is very attached to, LOL. He even sleeps with it! The beef rib bones end up partially eaten, since they're thinner and less dense, but they look like they start to splinter somewhat as they dry after a few days so then I throw them out. If I were feeding chicken feet, necks, pork bones, etc I would not let him keep the bones. The beef bones somehow seem cleaner to me, and once the meaty stuff is eaten off I don't mind him taking him around the house.


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