# Help with prong



## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

I have a prong collar for Porter that I use on walks and out around people. He's pretty well on loose lead walking so i'm using to help with training him not to run at every person and animal he sees. He does great with it on when its up higher on his neck like it should be. The problem I am having is that it keeps sliding down. Once the collar gets to he middle of his neck it doesn't do a thing for him any more and he will pull again at people/animals. I have as tight as it will go without hurting him with the links I have. Does anyone know of they have replacement prong links that are about half the length of normal ones? I think half a link shorter would keep it from sliding, but a whole link would be to tight. Also are there any other ways I can keep it from sliding down?


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

The links come in different sizes. The severity of the correction would be greater with the smaller prongs. This is opposite of what many people think. They see the heavy duty collar and think "oh my, must be a very tough dog" or "how cruel." Obviously, it is all in how you use it. I have used the smaller collars with many extra links on dogs in the past. Not because I wanted tougher corrections but because it fit them better. I didn't have to add a whole inch, I could add a 1/2 inch. One thing to keep in mind is that these collars can pop off. If you are truly using it for control, ask yourself if you could call your dog back if it did pop off? This happens less with good quality collars and people who watch the prongs making sure they are not bending in. Make sure you don't always take them apart at the same spot. Take them apart at different spots all the time, to avoid bending the prongs in.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Inga said:


> The links come in different sizes. The severity of the correction would be greater with the smaller prongs. This is opposite of what many people think. They see the heavy duty collar and think "oh my, must be a very tough dog" or "how cruel." Obviously, it is all in how you use it. I have used the smaller collars with many extra links on dogs in the past. Not because I wanted tougher corrections but because it fit them better. I didn't have to add a whole inch, I could add a 1/2 inch. One thing to keep in mind is that these collars can pop off. If you are truly using it for control, ask yourself if you could call your dog back if it did pop off? This happens less with good quality collars and people who watch the prongs making sure they are not bending in. Make sure you don't always take them apart at the same spot. Take them apart at different spots all the time, to avoid bending the prongs in.


Can't say more then Inga has. I have had a prong collar pop off at one of the WORST times ever. I was at a Pit Bull gathering and Nubs yanked just right and pop went the collar. He wasn't aggressive he just wanted to play be still I had a heart attack.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

Thanks! The one I am using is a "medium weight" one. I'll try one of the smaller ones for size. I use a martingale that is really loose along with the prong just incase it pops off. When we have him off leash in the yard we can call him back when he takes off running up to people, but i'd rather be safe out on walks because I don't know if the dog he is running up to will be friendly. I'm only using the prong because when he sees people and animals he starts pulling to them and I can't get him to sit.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Inga said:


> The links come in different sizes. The severity of the correction would be greater with the smaller prongs. This is opposite of what many people think. They see the heavy duty collar and think "oh my, must be a very tough dog" or "how cruel." Obviously, it is all in how you use it. I have used the smaller collars with many extra links on dogs in the past. Not because I wanted tougher corrections but because it fit them better. I didn't have to add a whole inch, I could add a 1/2 inch. One thing to keep in mind is that these collars can pop off. If you are truly using it for control, ask yourself if you could call your dog back if it did pop off? This happens less with good quality collars and people who watch the prongs making sure they are not bending in. Make sure you don't always take them apart at the same spot. Take them apart at different spots all the time, to avoid bending the prongs in.


Double collar the dog use a marti with prong cause they both have same closures.(clip lead to both) At least that way you won't have a loose dog. The marti collar may help keep prong collar higher but half of corrections will be absorbed by the marti collar and may defeat your purpose. I have never used the high on neck setup with prong but that's just me.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

wvasko said:


> Double collar the dog use a marti with prong cause they both have same closures.(clip lead to both) At least that way you won't have a loose dog. The marti collar may help keep prong collar higher but half of corrections will be absorbed by the marti collar and may defeat your purpose. I have never used the high on neck setup with prong but that's just me.


Thats what I do. When I get one with smaller links I may not have to have to up so high for it work with him. I really just think with size links I have right now he can't feel enough to bother him. He doesn't really need tough corrections, he just needs to feel it. When it's up on his neck he doesn't pull, he sits when I tell him to and watches the other person until I tell him "alright". Hopefully a few more months of doing that (we don't get to train with new people that often) and we wont need the prong anymore. Its already working because he do very well when meeting a new person one day when we just had him on his normal collar.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

This thread interested me because I have the same issue with Frag. He shakes because the prong annoys him and down it goes, but it could NOT get any tighter. He yelps (he's VERY soft) when I'm trying to get it off because of the added tension getting it off. I can still fit a few fingers under, but it's TIGHT. Don't know how to rectify this situation. 

We always double collar too.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> This thread interested me because I have the same issue with Frag. He shakes because the prong annoys him and down it goes, but it could NOT get any tighter. He yelps (he's VERY soft) when I'm trying to get it off because of the added tension getting it off. I can still fit a few fingers under, but it's TIGHT. Don't know how to rectify this situation.
> 
> We always double collar too.


What size collar do you use as far as thinkness of the links goes? Right now i'm having to just keep a very short leash and hold my arm up at my waist. I keep him in a heel on walks anyway so he isn't all over people's yards and the shorter leash helps hold the collar up. I just don't enjoy it because it makes my arm hurt


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

TStafford said:


> What size collar do you use as far as thinkness of the links goes? Right now i'm having to just keep a very short leash and hold my arm up at my waist. I keep him in a heel on walks anyway so he isn't all over people's yards and the shorter leash helps hold the collar up. I just don't enjoy it because it makes my arm hurt


According to petsmart's website they're 3mm links on the 22" collar. I do the same; keep my arm at my waist, which hurts my arm also.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> According to petsmart's website they're 3mm links on the 22" collar. I do the same; keep my arm at my waist, which hurts my arm also.


Lol, we have the same prong, same problem, and same silly painful walk to make the prong work. If I can talk my SO into getting one with smaller links and it works out i'll let you know.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

TStafford said:


> Lol, we have the same prong, same problem, and same silly painful walk to make the prong work. If I can talk my SO into getting one with smaller links and it works out i'll let you know.


Haha, please do. It took three 1 hour sessions of working with Frag and holding my arm like that to figure out whhhhhy my arm hurt SO bad.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Forgetting the Positive issues, there are two things to consider with a Prong collar or a choke chain. The first is technique and the second is habituation.
1. If someone taught you, ask for a refresher, while you watch. The technique is to use a very rapid snap that provides no pain. It is difficult to do it quickly without doing it too hard. But you want the links to close, then you want to release it. The timing is crucial, and an effective correction will work equally well on a stationary dog, a walking dog, a lunging dog, and a running dog. However, it is important that the snap provides a distractor only; you shouldn't use it to pull or restrain the dog... it is not meant to work that way.
A correct snap should not result in a pulling force that moves the dog. It should mimic a mother dog clamping on the neck of a pup... no shaking allowed.

2. It's interesting that we tend to use the German pinch on the most pain resistant dogs - Pits, Labs, Rotts. And, when the wrong technique is used, the dog realizes that there is no damage being done, so they will pull harder, ignoring the pain. --- That's one reason for the quick snap, rather than the continuous pull. And, in most cases, I've observed that the Prong collar is no longer effective after about a month.

Turid Rugaas has a small book about Pulling: http://www.amazon.com/My-Dog-Pulls-What-Do/dp/1929242239
It is a gentle, powerful technique... but it takes patience and discipline, because it requires a consistent progressive approach for about 30 days. However, the method does work on all dogs if you put in the time....re-reading the book throughout the 30 days.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

hanksimon said:


> 2. It's interesting that we tend to use the German pinch on the most pain resistant dogs - Pits, Labs, Rotts. And, when the wrong technique is used, the dog realizes that there is no damage being done, so they will pull harder, ignoring the pain. --- That's one reason for the quick snap, rather than the continuous pull. And, in most cases, I've observed that the Prong collar is no longer effective after about a month.


I agree with this. Having used prongs in the past I found they lost effectiveness very quickly and no longer use them, even on the 170 lb Dane. 

I'm not suprised about the comments from many here that they are not having success, are having arm and shoulder pain...

If a training tool or method is not working/not showing improvement after about six weeks of consistent training (assuming it is done properly) why would you continue to use it?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

hanksimon said:


> Forgetting the Positive issues, there are two things to consider with a Prong collar or a choke chain. The first is technique and the second is habituation.
> 1. If someone taught you, ask for a refresher, while you watch. The technique is to use a very rapid snap that provides no pain. It is difficult to do it quickly without doing it too hard. But you want the links to close, then you want to release it. The timing is crucial, and an effective correction will work equally well on a stationary dog, a walking dog, a lunging dog, and a running dog. However, it is important that the snap provides a distractor only; you shouldn't use it to pull or restrain the dog... it is not meant to work that way.
> A correct snap should not result in a pulling force that moves the dog. It should mimic a mother dog clamping on the neck of a pup... no shaking allowed.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for TStafford, but personally I don't have an issue with HOW to use it, I just have an issue with it not staying where I want it. Frag walks perfectly on a prong and I never even have to correct him, it just keeps sliding down to where he can't feel it and forgets and starts pulling because he can't feel it.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> I can't speak for TStafford, but personally I don't have an issue with HOW to use it, I just have an issue with it not staying where I want it. Frag walks perfectly on a prong and I never even have to correct him, it just keeps sliding down to where he can't feel it and forgets and starts pulling because he can't feel it.


That.

I also don't have to correct Porter while he has it on. The problem is once it slides down he doesn't feel it (or feel it as much i guess), then when he sees other dogs he pulls.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

But if it only works as a management tool (ie only when it is there to inhibit the behaviour and is only working due to an anticipation of discomfort) where is the learning aspect? Where's the changing of the behaviour that goes with training? The whole concept of punishment (in the OC vernacular) is that it works to decrease a behaviour to the point where the punishment no longer needs to occur. If they still respond to other dogs in the same way without the collar(or without the collar fitting properly) they are not learning anything about the behaviour itself, only avoiding discomfort. The dogs have become collar smart. This is a training issue, not a collar issue.


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## DJsMom (Jun 6, 2008)

hanksimon said:


> Turid Rugaas has a small book about Pulling: http://www.amazon.com/My-Dog-Pulls-What-Do/dp/1929242239
> It is a gentle, powerful technique... but it takes patience and discipline, because it requires a consistent progressive approach for about 30 days. However, the method does work on all dogs if you put in the time....re-reading the book throughout the 30 days.


Thanks for that link, I think I'm going to order that book - I've had a terrible time getting Coco to walk nicely without pulling ahead terribly! I have used a prong collar, I used a light weight 1 for her & it makes a WHOLE WORLD of difference for me! However, no matter how I've tried, when we put a regular flat collar on her she's right back to pulling my arms out of socket.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Cracker said:


> But if it only works as a management tool (ie only when it is there to inhibit the behaviour and is only working due to an anticipation of discomfort) where is the learning aspect? Where's the changing of the behaviour that goes with training? The whole concept of punishment (in the OC vernacular) is that it works to decrease a behaviour to the point where the punishment no longer needs to occur. If they still respond to other dogs in the same way without the collar(or without the collar fitting properly) they are not learning anything about the behaviour itself, only avoiding discomfort. The dogs have become collar smart. This is a training issue, not a collar issue.


I've worked with Frag since day one on loose leash walking. He still doesn't get it. Prong makes it manageable to walk him, and he is learned that if he hits tension, it's gonna be uncomfortable, so he might as well avoid that altogether. Just with the prong on he walks like a dream. And he has learned that if he hits the end and I stop he backs up immediately, it's just that he won't walk where he should on his own otherwise. I'll have to video tape it, he literally goes flying backwards when he hits the end and I stop, but it doesn't stop him from hitting the end.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I've worked with Frag since day one on loose leash walking. He still doesn't get it. Prong makes it manageable to walk him, and he is learned that if he hits tension, it's gonna be uncomfortable, so he might as well avoid that altogether. Just with the prong on he walks like a dream. And he has learned that if he hits the end and I stop he backs up immediately, it's just that he won't walk where he should on his own otherwise. I'll have to video tape it, he literally goes flying backwards when he hits the end and I stop, but it doesn't stop him from hitting the end.


I would suggest that you get to a good trainer that can instruct you and your dog on proper loose leash walking without gagets.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

LynnI said:


> I would suggest that you get to a good trainer that can instruct you and your dog on proper loose leash walking without gagets.


I know how to teach loose leash walking, thank you very much. I've successfully trained more than a dozen dogs to loose lead walk. Frag's just never picked it up. I don't mind the added control anyway, so it doesn't matter to me. It'd be nice if he didn't pull with just a buckle, but he's learning.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

Cracker said:


> But if it only works as a management tool (ie only when it is there to inhibit the behaviour and is only working due to an anticipation of discomfort) where is the learning aspect? Where's the changing of the behaviour that goes with training? The whole concept of punishment (in the OC vernacular) is that it works to decrease a behaviour to the point where the punishment no longer needs to occur. If they still respond to other dogs in the same way without the collar(or without the collar fitting properly) they are not learning anything about the behaviour itself, only avoiding discomfort. The dogs have become collar smart. This is a training issue, not a collar issue.


Porter is learning with the prong. Normally when he meets a person he starts pulling, jumping, and then when he gets to them he does everything he can to lick thier face. The other day we had him in petsmart (he was on his harness then because we have classes there and didnt want the trainer getting in trouble) and a lady started asking us about him. Once we turned to face her Porter sat down on my SO left side, and was as calm as he could be. We told the lady she could pet him (is reward for being so good) and Porter sat there until she walked over to him and started talk to him. Then he just stood up and let her love all over him. So using the collar is working. I just need to keep using it for working with him around off leash dogs and when he is around groups of people.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

TStafford said:


> Porter is learning with the prong. Normally when he meets a person he starts pulling, jumping, and then when he gets to them he does everything he can to lick thier face. The other day we had him in petsmart (he was on his harness then because we have classes there and didnt want the trainer getting in trouble) and a lady started asking us about him. Once we turned to face her Porter sat down on my SO left side, and was as calm as he could be. We told the lady she could pet him (is reward for being so good) and Porter sat there until she walked over to him and started talk to him. Then he just stood up and let her love all over him. So using the collar is working. I just need to keep using it for working with him around off leash dogs and when he is around groups of people.


That's great he was so good at the store. Glad to hear it. 

Is he reactive around off leash dogs only when he's leashed? Is it "go say hi" behaviour or "go away" behaviour? I'm just trying to get an idea of what his issue is regarding the off leash dogs and the groups of people? Are you working from a distance *ie under threshold*? What are you using in addition to the prong? Is there rewarding for calm at all? Have you given him a default behaviour to do?

DJ, 
Regarding Frag. I have found that some dogs just don't "get" LLW consistently until they are well over two years old. Some pick it up really quickly. The first year I had Cracker I worked with a choke chain for several months, no improvement (and a stressed dog), then tried a prong (improvement for a bit of time) and then switched to a waist leash, a bait bag and a clicker and made more progress in a week than I had in several months of other methods. Have you looked at the "silky leash" vids on youtube? I use an easy walk with C when we are group walking (since it's hard for me to work on LLW with her when I've got all hands on dogs so to speak) but do flat collar and clicker work a couple of times a week and the rest of the time she's walking very well.

Now, back to the original question:
I saw today while walking, a man with a young GR (18 mos) using a choke but the dog also had an elastic around his muzzle. So I had to ask...what's the dealio here? Turns out it's an elastic ladies headband, that he looped around the choke chain and the around the dogs muzzle to keep the choke up under the chin. Pretty creative, really. 

Here's my mini rant about this guy and his "board and train" dog (he was the trainer):
Disappointingly this lovely young dog, who I asked to greet and was told it was okay, went to sniff my proferred hand (which of course is the point) was CORRECTED for it, layed down on the sidewalk and wouldn't even look at me. Good dog the man said. THIS is why I find using corrective measures for greeting behaviours (dog or human) to be very sad. Taking a friendly dog and removing totally one of the innate pleasures of BEING a friendly dog is counterproductive.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Cracker said:


> That's great he was so good at the store. Glad to hear it.
> 
> Is he reactive around off leash dogs only when he's leashed? Is it "go say hi" behaviour or "go away" behaviour? I'm just trying to get an idea of what his issue is regarding the off leash dogs and the groups of people? Are you working from a distance *ie under threshold*? What are you using in addition to the prong? Is there rewarding for calm at all? Have you given him a default behaviour to do?
> 
> ...


I completely agree. 

And no, I haven't seen silky leash videos. I've heard of it, but have never gotten any info about it, so I'll have to check that out. I do a lot like you do; I work with the clicker and walking like crazy, but he still doesn't get the point of STAYING there, he'd rather reach the end, stop, then have to back up to go forward. I'll have to video tape it sometime and how I work it out and get some feedback here. There must be something I'm doing wrong, I just can't figure out what it is.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> And no, I haven't seen silky leash videos. I've heard of it, but have never gotten any info about it, so I'll have to check that out. I do a lot like you do; I work with the clicker and walking like crazy, but he still doesn't get the point of STAYING there, he'd rather reach the end, stop, then have to back up to go forward. I'll have to video tape it sometime and how I work it out and get some feedback here. There must be something I'm doing wrong, I just can't figure out what it is.


Silky leash is about teaching the dog it is more rewarding to release tension in the leash/collar. It's a process I think is really cool. I think the "channel" on youtube is ahismadogtraining. 

It's possible Frag (I love that name btw) has inadvertently learned a behaviour chain...walk well, go to end of leash, get pressure, come back be rewarded. So essentially being rewarded for going to the end and coming back rather than rewarded for staying "in thepocket". Could be a too low rate of reinforcement (most common error), clicker timing or waiting til he hits the end before communicating to him he's too far.

I had a similar issue when I was dealing with Cracker's response to "surprise people" at the wooded off leash area. She would typically run up to them and bark at them. So I was just learning the 'look at that" game and decided to try it. She would see the person and my attempt was to click AT THE LOOK, but I wasnt' quick enough, so got the click at the "advance and bark" stage instead and then she'd run back and look for the treat. Initially I was yay! I'm interrupting the behaviour and YAY it's changing her feelings about the people! And technically this was correct. Her fear bark changed to a different bark (more like a HEY YOU!!) which in the big picture was a good thing, but she was STILL doing the rush up. My friend Etsuko was there one day (she's a much better clickerer than I was then, probably still is better). So she says to me "Nice behaviour chain ya got there" (sarcasm). I was like HUH? Oh. Cracker had learned "people appear, I rush up, bark happily, turn around and go back for a treat! YAY)

We worked together on the timing and did some setups with some willing volunteers and I managed to change the chain. It helped a lot to have someone there to point it out. LOL


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Thanks! I found some videos I'm going to try to implement. Hopefully it works. I wondered if he had formed a chain behavior like that, but wasn't sure if they could get that much into it.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

If the Prong slips, remove one link ?

Rant: Using a Prong in that way on a GR is just wrong ... Even with exuberance, they are so biddable.

What is the "Look at That" method ? If it is what I think - re-direction - I learned it with a tongue click, specifically to be less precise than a clicker ... ?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

hanksimon said:


> If the Prong slips, remove one link ?
> 
> Rant: Using a Prong in that way on a GR is just wrong ... Even with exuberance, they are so biddable.
> 
> What is the "Look at That" method ? If it is what I think - re-direction - I learned it with a tongue click, specifically to be less precise than a clicker ... ?


Hank, it was actually a choke. A prong would have been much less upsetting in my mind...but ANY correction for very nicely sniffing the hand of the person you are greeting is wrong. 

LAT is a game, originally written in Control Unleashed, using a clicker (or other marker) as soon as a dog LOOKS at the reactivity trigger. In a clicker savvy dog this means he gets to briefly glance at what he's afraid of, without getting fixated (as this increases the reactivity) getting clicked for the glance and then being rewarded for looking back for the treat. It is a very effective game for changing the dog's mind about the scary thing. It enables classical conditioning to happen but also gives the dog a chance to 'keep an eye on" the thing that scares it. It is technically a redirect but is repeated so the glance is done several times (as long as dog is under threshold) because the more reps you get, the more the CC gets to work. I now use the cue "look at that" for anything Cracker finds either stressful or 'too interesting' ie squirrels or cats or soccer games..all things that get her a bit too over the top. It's like a built in relaxer.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Cool ! Thanks.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

Cracker said:


> That's great he was so good at the store. Glad to hear it.
> 
> Is he reactive around off leash dogs only when he's leashed? Is it "go say hi" behaviour or "go away" behaviour? I'm just trying to get an idea of what his issue is regarding the off leash dogs and the groups of people? Are you working from a distance *ie under threshold*? What are you using in addition to the prong? Is there rewarding for calm at all? Have you given him a default behaviour to do?


Thanks! I'm hoping to get him to where he can get his CGC soon. 

It's just "omg I have to say hey right now or i'll burst!!!". On walks when we sees people and dogs behind a fence i'm working on getting him to stop looking at them and keep watching me and walking. On walks he gets treats, lots of praise, and a we run (he loves running!). In stores I get him to do tricks to keep his focus on me and give him treats. If the person we are working around wants to pet him I make him sit and be calm before they can pet him. Being petted is his reward. I'm using the prong because its the only thing he wont keep pulling on.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Okay, that's a bit clearer. 
I want you to think a bit about this, just so you are careful...the point I made about the GR on the choke chain is important to remember. Using a punisher (which a prong is) for mediating greetings CAN over time change how the dog views the people and dogs that he wants to meet. This can develop into barrier frustration and leash aggression in some dogs. 

You are doing some great work with him, but you may want to use the people and the dogs as much as possible as their own reward. If you know some folks with relatively calm dogs that Porter likes you can do set ups where he gets to move towards them if calm, or you stop/turn away/back up if he's not. His ultimate reward for calm is to actually GREET the people or dogs or both. This is premack principle at it's best. And it will, I can practically guarantee you, produce a calmer dog who will greet or not greet on your CUE. By _only_ working on his focus on you and keeping going you are taking away the thing he wants most and are ignoring your greatest reinforcer. 

Cracker used to be a leaper, paws first into people she liked (now she woowhhooos at them)...we put the greeting on cue "go say hi" when I got a CALM SIT or WAIT first. I now use the "go say hi" for certain dogs as well. Having it on cue means I can decide who she greets and who she doesn't and how nicely she does it. 

I have seen too many very friendly dogs get frustrated and depressed by too much handler focus training. We should all be ecstatic to have friendly dogs and learn how to CHANNEL that desire for interaction into a reward for calm, polite behaviour rather than extinguish it.

Does this make sense?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Cracker said:


> Okay, that's a bit clearer.
> I want you to think a bit about this, just so you are careful...the point I made about the GR on the choke chain is important to remember. Using a punisher (which a prong is) for mediating greetings CAN over time change how the dog views the people and dogs that he wants to meet. This can develop into barrier frustration and leash aggression in some dogs.
> 
> You are doing some great work with him, but you may want to use the people and the dogs as much as possible as their own reward. If you know some folks with relatively calm dogs that Porter likes you can do set ups where he gets to move towards them if calm, or you stop/turn away/back up if he's not. His ultimate reward for calm is to actually GREET the people or dogs or both. This is premack principle at it's best. And it will, I can practically guarantee you, produce a calmer dog who will greet or not greet on your CUE. By _only_ working on his focus on you and keeping going you are taking away the thing he wants most and are ignoring your greatest reinforcer.
> ...


I know you were directing this more at TStafford than myself, but I see how it makes a lot of sense. I'm luckily to have not stressed this so bad to the point of discouragement, but I do when the possibility of him meeting a trigger is non-existent. Dogs behind fences, dogs walking on the other side of the road, etc. I do use premack with people that want to meet him and squirrels though. He shows great impulse control in the squirrel department.


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