# What breeds Have NOT changed over Time



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I just felt like we've never had this discussion.

What breeds do you think HAVEN'T changed very much or branched out in different directions in the last 100 years since dog shows became popular. I think this thread should try to stick to breeds that are at LEAST 50 years old from their founding and the writing of their standard to at least allow for some time for change to have happened.

I will start with the Harrier 
Then 

















And Now


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Well bred pits have changed very little over time. 

Colby's Pinscher (1910)











Super dog, Blue Moon's She's just a Memory


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Great Pyrenees have changed little to none since antiquity...I don't have the patience to find & post pics right now though.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Caucasians, central Asian shepherds...I can never remember which is which lol. But they're ancient dogs. Kangals too.

Honestly most breeds have in one way or another. Some look remarkably like the old dogs and others don't. To me pit bulls have changed. Not the well bred ones no but they've definitely branched all different directions and they're still a younger breed too. Same goes for border collies. The working lines haven't changed much but they've diverged quite a bit. Also a young breed comparatively.

I can find paintings from the 1500s of toy spaniels that look an awful lot like phalenes and I can find some that look totally different. Certainly there were dogs of a similar type around back then.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Laur I'm talking about change starting from when the breed standard was originally written


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

circa 1920


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

or better yet


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Beagles and Harriers have both stayed the same. I think most hounds have stayed the same throughout time. Beagles have changed almost zip. Body structure is the same, colors are the same, coat is the same, and sizes are the same. 

Most beagles now are perfect saddle back tri colors although the AKC allows any true hound color in any combination with ticking and a broken saddle or no saddle at all. I actually think the mostly white beagles are striking. 

Beagles-


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

digits mama said:


> or better yet


There are definitely some conformational changes there, but nothing too major for that amount of timespan. It's actually quite impressive.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

And it looks like those conformational changes were for the better. The only difference I can really see aside from improved topline is the grooming of the coat. The texture is the same, but the dog looks less scruff and more presentable.

The Ibizan Hound, Pharoah Hound, Saluki, and Cirneco d'ell Etna have changed very very little as well.


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

pharoh hounds. i think the name says it all -- they've been around a while!










they are a large breed dog that is not predisposed to ANY genetic defects, health issues, etc. their average life span is 15 or so years old.

beautiful dogs.

EDIT

and i was beat to it.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Saluki?


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Huskies and Malamutes looked the same for thousands of years. But they look different now since they started showing them in the last 30 years. So doesn't really count, I guess.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

RBark said:


> Huskies and Malamutes looked the same for thousands of years. But they look different now since they started showing them in the last 30 years. So doesn't really count, I guess.


Aren't there different varieties of huskies (not siberian) that are either racers or show dogs? Have seppelas changed much?


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> Aren't there different varieties of huskies (not siberian) that are either racers or show dogs? Have seppelas changed much?


Nobody really races siberian huskies and expects to win any more. It's almost all mixed breed working dogs in sledding now.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

tonisaysss said:


> pharoh hounds. i think the name says it all -- they've been around a while!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually Pharaoh Hounds are a modern breed.  It's been genetically proven that they're a recreation of an ancient breed and doesn't actually originate in ancient Egypt. Same with Ibizan hounds. Pharaoh Hounds are likely an offshoot of the Ibizan hound and were tested to be only about 200 years old.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

i don't think pugs have changed much....although i think their genetic issues have increased due to puppy mill and back yard breeding..


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## Shaggydog (Mar 4, 2009)

I don't think hounds in general have changed much,especially in Bloodhounds and **** hounds.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> Aren't there different varieties of huskies (not siberian) that are either racers or show dogs? Have seppelas changed much?


The seppalas haven't changed much. There shouldn't be a "show" and "working" line. There's no point to "show" line Huskies and Malamutes if they can't do their job.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

RBark said:


> The seppalas haven't changed much. There shouldn't be a "show" and "working" line. There's no point to "show" line Huskies and Malamutes if they can't do their job.


I agree, but a lot of the breeds with a purpose DO have a split. It sucks. I like the fact there's no real split in brittanys; I've heard the dogs hunt during the week and show during the weekends


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I agree, but a lot of the breeds with a purpose DO have a split. It sucks. I like the fact there's no real split in brittanys; I've heard the dogs hunt during the week and show during the weekends


Oh I know there is a split. I was just saying that they remained the same for thousands of years until this recent meaningless "split". Going from running 100 miles a day to walking 5 miles a day doesn't sound like a improvement to me  They also look completely different conformation, their coat is completely different too. That only took 30 years, yikes.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

I would imagine most of the "Toy" breeds haven't changed much?

I can't imagine there being much change in a Havanese, Maltese, Toy Poodle, etc.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I agree, but a lot of the breeds with a purpose DO have a split. It sucks. I like the fact there's no real split in brittanys; I've heard the dogs hunt during the week and show during the weekends


There is a split in brittanies but it's not a field/show split. It's a split across continents.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> There is a split in brittanies but it's not a field/show split. It's a split across continents.


I've seen some brittanys from other countries, france in particular. The dogs looked (to me) like cute, speckled mutts.
























Do you think it would be considered a breed split, or just different breeding stock producing a different "type"?


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

RBark said:


> Oh I know there is a split. I was just saying that they remained the same for thousands of years until this recent meaningless "split". Going from running 100 miles a day to walking 5 miles a day doesn't sound like a improvement to me  They also look completely different conformation, their coat is completely different too. That only took 30 years, yikes.


I know in GSD's, the split is so extreme they've considered naming them different breeds. This is an awesome site I have saved http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html
This page in particular is about the different breed types (west german show, czech, DDR, amline, old amline, etc). The original site (http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/Index_Page/Index_Page.htm) goes piece by piece of the dog and made me pretty good at identifying GSD types


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Japanese Chins are also very similar:
*
1905:*









2010:


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I've seen some brittanys from other countries, france in particular. The dogs looked (to me) like cute, speckled mutts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A little of both. Most people consider the French Brittany to be a different breed (at least, I haven't seen many/any one interbreeding the two), but they're certainly related. There's some differences between the AKC and the French standards.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I think they'll end up like Cocker Spaniels, personally. Some people already consider them to be two different breeds.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Laurelin said:


> I think they'll end up like Cocker Spaniels, personally. Some people already consider them to be two different breeds.


I'm pretty sure *most* dog people (not just some) consider the american and english separate.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

trumpetjock said:


> I'm pretty sure *most* dog people (not just some) consider the american and english separate.


I'm talking about French v American Brittany. I think they'll end up as two breeds like the cocker spaniels have.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> A little of both. Most people consider the French Brittany to be a different breed (at least, I haven't seen many/any one interbreeding the two), but they're certainly related. There's some differences between the AKC and the French standards.


Interesting. I don't have much experience with brittanies (they're not too popular around here) but I've liked the ones I've met. 
And as far as cockers go, I can barely see the similarities between the two anymore. Same for field bred springers and bench bred springers!


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

[/QUOTE]

Too adorable!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

The interesting thing with britts is the americans aren't really a 'show version'. There's lots and lots of dual purpose american brittanies. Just they work differently if i recall correctly.


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