# How to Build a love of Trials!



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I have the world's greatest little staffybull. She is well trained. There is no reason for her not to have a CDX, RE, and Excellent Agility titles. HOWEVER, she hates, hates, hates show sites. She loves all dogs, she doesn't mind craziness, she gladly walks and hikes anywhere. She can perform in new buildings, new classes, Walmart parking lots, you name it. I haul her all over the place all of the time. But when she sees me loading a cooler and a training bag in the wee hours of the morning, she dives under the bed and hides. She always knows when it's a dog trial. 

This is NOT a reactive dog. She doesn't like to be petted by strangers, but all she does is duck a little and back up. She doesn't not have impulse control problems. She just HATES dog trials.

I am certain that this is entirely my fault. She started out with 3 first place wins in Rally A. Then, she got a couple of novice agility titles and 2 CD legs. Then, she quit. I am sure it has everything to do with me being nervous. I think that my fear shot right down the leash and killed her love of trialling.

How can I rebuild her? She has not been anywhere near a ring since April. I would like to try again. She was my first dog to enter a ring. My other two dogs LOVE it. I used up the worst of my fears on my poor staffybull.

She has something very wrong with her that caused mild seizures then culminated with a huge one that left her very screwed up for 2 months. Now, she has most of the use of her body again and rarely runs into things. Obviously, agility is out, but she needs one more leg for her RA and CD and I would love to finish those titles and continue. Even if I never put her in the ring again, I show every other weekend with my other two dogs and she ought to be able to come with and have a nice day...

Any wisdom?


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Were you looking for training tips? or merely some wisdom?

Just curious ... if the dog doesn't want to do it, then why continue to press? especially if she's that terrified at the very first indication, AND she has health concerns on top? 

It sounds as though she'd be more comfortable at home. Besides, you say you have two other dogs to work on. Concentrate on trialling them, and continue to have fun with your girl elsewhere, would likely be my recommendation.


A turnaround is posssible but it'll take some extra work, of course.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Leaving her home when the family trials is not really feasable. I am happy not to compete with her, but I need to make her like being at trails, and if she likes being at trials, why not compete? She LOVES to train. What we have been doing is this: I have nearly stopped trialing to be home with her. Now that she is better, I am going to start going to shows again. My husband can stay home with her for a few of the shows, but then, he would like to go with me. And some weekends, he can't stay home with her. Boarding her is out of the question. She panicks. So, she needs to be with us. 

Does anyone have any tips for how to make show grounds fun for her again? To begin with, I want to take her along and try to make it as fun as possible. For instance, I won't crate more than necessary, I will give her snacks and play with her whenever possible, and I will keep people from touching her. (This is tough. People think she's cute.) I bought a super big crate with a high roof and an orthopedic pad so she feels as safe as possible when she needs to be crated. I am just looking for more ideas to help her feel good at shows, whether she ever steps in the ring again or not. She is only 4. Staying home alone most weekends will upset her too. She hates being left alone. Sort of a bind. If leaving her home was manageable, that is exactly what we would do. It's what we have done since June. But now, it's not really practical. We were happy to stay home when we thought she was dying, but now that it looks like she might live a long time, we are trying to think of how to make this all work.

The dog comes first. Always. I have spent a long time trying to decide what's best for her. She LOVES to train. I am happy to train her, even if we never compete again. But mentally, training is more fun when there's a glimmer of hope that we could test it at trial. Otherwise, it is hard to keep training from becoming "formless." But ultimately, I won't show her unless or until she liked the show grounds again and looked forward to heading to a trial. It's really all about the dog. But I have a whole other life too, and I can't seem to find a way to play with my other two and be a good owner to her at the same time...

Does that clarify my spot? I love this dog. I have stopped everything for her. But she could live a lot of years and it's time to play with my other two as well. If there are any ideas about how to make her happy and comfortable even as a canine spectator, I am open to them!


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

My biggest concern are her neurological issues. You mentioned that she had had seizures. I work with young adults many of whom have severe and complex neurological issues. It may be that the atmosphere at a trial (which is light years different than training in terms of stimulation) may be too overwhelming for her neurologically. She simply may not be able to handle the stimulation due the damage that was caused by the seizures (or what lead up to the seizures). We work very hard with out students to overcome their issues and some do very well. For some kids, certain situations are just too over the top initially and need slow desensitization. Just speculation....but maybe slow, thoughtful reintroduction to trial environments might be helpful. Just wondering...was she evaluated by a neurologist? That might be a good place to start.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I will have to think a lot about that. I wish there was a way to know how her brain was processing everything. 

On the one hand, I don't ever want to stress her unnecessarily. On the other hand, if left to her own devices, she would spend most of her life under the bed. There's a balance to be found between stretching her comfort zones to enrich her life and pushing her to far. My husband and I talk about this a lot and try very hard to make the best possible choices for her. It's a balancing act.

Thank you for the input.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

trainingjunkie said:


> I am certain that this is entirely my fault. She started out with 3 first place wins in Rally A. Then, she got a couple of novice agility titles and 2 CD legs. Then, she quit. I am sure it has everything to do with me being nervous. I think that my fear shot right down the leash and killed her love of trialling.



You nailed it - this is almost certainly what happened. I've seen good dogs shut down in very similar circumstances - especially with new competitors. Initially. you're happy to just Q and everything else is just gravy. But then initial successes lead to built up expectations and you get "competition-itis". 



trainingjunkie said:


> How can I rebuild her? She has not been anywhere near a ring since April. I would like to try again. She was my first dog to enter a ring. My other two dogs LOVE it. I used up the worst of my fears on my poor staffybull.. .. Any wisdom?


I don't know what your personality is, and depending on that, you might not be able to get her back to where she was, even though you might feel that *you* are back to that place yourself. 

I'm sure the seizures didn't help, but I know of a lot of dogs who have had that problem and still competed once the seizures were under control. So that's not an excuse. It's more your attitude than anything else. 

Are you in training classes with your other dogs? if yes, why not try enrolling her in some Novice classes just to get her feeling better and get you back to the joy of just working her for the fun of it. If not, maybe you could try a few drop-ins, or even a private lesson or two, with a good competition trainer, to do the same thing. 

You're obviously having a great time with your other dogs. But this was your first competition dog and she does deserve some special considerations. You made your mistakes with her, and now maybe you owe her more than a little bit. Just think back to those early trials and how great it would be to have her back in the ring with you - even if she never qualifies again. Keep that positive attitude.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> She has something very wrong with her that caused mild seizures then culminated with a huge one that left her very screwed up for 2 months.





> I'm sure the seizures didn't help, but I know of a lot of dogs who have had that problem and still competed once the seizures were under control. So that's not an excuse. It's more your attitude than anything else.


I really have to disagree with you about this. You can't make a blanket statement like that. I said I was speculating.



> On the other hand, if left to her own devices, she would spend most of her life under the bed.


If this is a personality change that happened after the seizures, you can't rule it out. Most people are nervous with their "first competition" dogs, most "first" dogs don't shut down. I would certainly have a plan help her cope with her stress. I agree baby steps are in order. Start with what she handles well and slowly move forward.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I have almost the same problem with Kiska. I started doing Agility with her to help her confidence around other people and dogs. She seemed to like it and finally this spring at her one indoor trial, she got Q's in her three Starter Games, Jumpers, Gamblers and Snooker.

The next few trials, all outdoors, she did pretty well but since then she has started to shut down in the ring and won't move. Since she was not enjoying it, I stopped entering her but thought I would take her along with Remmy when I went to some trials. Instead of helping, she has gotten 100% worse, does not even want to walk around the show grounds. I cannot figure out what has caused her to get so nervous.

There is a little practice in Agility tonight at an indoor arena, only a few dogs and I am going to take her to see if she is alright indoors as she liked the indoor trial this spring. Will see what happens.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Any fun matches in your area? Do the whole go-to-a-trial drill, go in the ring. Do ONE thing, have a party, jackpot and leave. With the two dogs I'm competing with right now, Ray is pretty much consistent, whatever I am doing or thinking. With Alice, if I'm not fully present and doing my part, she gets poopy and disengaged. So her attitude is MY responsibility. Now this is what I would do with a HEALTHY dog able to do the work. And if the dog really hated going to trials, I'd seriously consider if my goals are worth forcing the issue. Having had an epileptic dog, I also know that there are effects on their percept besides just having full out seizures, and I think I would respect that and retire the dog.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

So Cavalier said:


> I really have to disagree with you about this. You can't make a blanket statement like that. ...
> 
> If this is a personality change that happened after the seizures, you can't rule it out. Most people are nervous with their "first competition" dogs, most "first" dogs don't shut down. I would certainly have a plan help her cope with her stress. I agree baby steps are in order. Start with what she handles well and slowly move forward.


I sure can make that statement, since I know dogs that have come back from having seizures to actually compete. If you would have read my whole reply, you would see that I emphasize the fun of training and working more than the actual competition. But I will also say there's nothing wrong with competing as such, either - if that option is available. 

Having experienced dogs with all sorts of health problems having fun in various activities working with their handlers, I will not accept that as an excuse to stop working with a dog. 

Saying that "most first dogs don't shut down " is meaningless. A LOT of first -timers do shut down. Some do it early in the training process, and some do it later. In fact, it's common enough that a good trainer watches for it when working with a first-time team.

Maybe the OP won't be able to resume those particular activities with this dog - she's already accepted that agility is out - but there are lots of other things do do.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond. Lots to think about. 

I would be deleriously happy if she could just come along to trails, but that may be an unreasonable hope. 

It's hard having her so "all-over-the-place." Makes living with her very puzzling.

Thank you for the responses.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Oh, I missed Poly's response while I was typing my own...

Just a little info: I actually have seizures myself. I wouldn't think too much about that. The problem with my dog is that we have no idea what's truly wrong with her, but the strong suspicion is that she has a tumor. We would need an MRI to confirm, but even with confirmation, we wouldn't have a solution. Because the MRI is very, very expensive and won't lead us to a cure, we have decided not to get one. We have spent a bunch of money ruling out other things. We have had her in to several different vets. We have sent spinal X-rays to specialists... We have one screwed up little wonderful dog.

She goes from fearful to fearless, shut-down to manic. Some days, she just hides under the bed and wobbles around and runs into thing. Her eyes go flat and it's clear that she would like to die. Other days, she is TOO strong and TOO driven and we have to keep her from tugging/retrieving/running herself to (literal) death. Then, she is joyful and comical and full of life, just like she used to alway be.

We have had weeks when she seems normal to above normal. That's when I start hoping again. Then, once I start to hope, she crashes and I go into an obsessive depression. It's been a heck of a ride. Both my husband and I have wanted to euthanize, but never at the same time. We agree that the decision has to be mutual, and so far, that has kept her alive. The joyful days out-number the terrible days, but the terrible days are heart-breaking.

Wanting her to be "normal" again is probably a delusion on my part, but I sort of cling to it as a hope. I know on some level that our story probably has a bad ending. My huband reminds me of this whenever I start to think she's getting better.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

trainingjunkie said:


> I would be deleriously happy if she could just come along to trails


 I can appreciate that.



trainingjunkie said:


> But when she sees me loading a cooler and a training bag in the wee hours of the morning, she dives under the bed and hides. She always knows when it's a dog trial.


To me, this ^ would be the place to start. You'll have to set up numerous early morning 'mock preparations'. Try to be accurate in replicating ALL of the subtle/ microscopic details, and keep her under threshhold while counter-conditioning with plenty of R+ (sort of like Pawz described about setting up in the ring, jackpot, release, and immediately exit the ring). Start by creating a positive association with your own 'unusual' a.m. behaviours, briefly at first, and call it a day. Build slowly over time ... it may take a herculean effort on your part, but you seem to have the determination. Hopefully you have the good fortune of spare time and patience being on your side as well.

I'd love to hear back that she's progressed to attending, happily and willingly, as a spectator ... but it's your decision .. it's a call YOU'LL have to make for yourself AND YOUR GIRL. Keep that in mind.

Best wishes.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I would just like to say that last year Remmy had a seizure at a trial. He was fine for about six weeks, then had another one at home. The Vet checked his liver and the enzymes were up so he was put on antibiotics for a month. Before I started him back in Agility, I had him tested again and everything was normal. He has competed all this year and has been fine.

Kiska obviously enjoys doing Agility indoors as she was perfect at the practice last night.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

What's different going to a trial and going to train? Does she hide when its just a training day? 

If she enjoys training, take her along on to trials, but only do fun training with her there. 

Mine are just the opposite, and can tell on real call outs vs training, and get super hyped.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

My goofball was enjoying agility trials this spring. She did 2 in a row with joy and enthusiasm! I am not giving that up because of seizures; she simply does not have enough control of her body anymore. For example, she offered the weaves when I was training out in the yard. She flung herself out of the series on the third pole. Bless her heart, she got up and re-entered, but she can't arc, bend, stop... Except sometimes she can! So, there is simply no possible way that it's safe to do any agility with her. There's no way to predict when her body will go nuts and even on her very best day, there is no way she could get through the weaves even at half speed.

I am glad that things all worked out for yours though!!! Agility is the best! I had this shirt made up to run in:


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> She goes from fearful to fearless, shut-down to manic. Some days, she just hides under the bed and wobbles around and runs into thing. Her eyes go flat and it's clear that she would like to die. Other days, she is TOO strong and TOO driven and we have to keep her from tugging/retrieving/running herself to (literal) death. Then, she is joyful and comical and full of life, just like she used to alway be.
> 
> We have had weeks when she seems normal to above normal. That's when I start hoping again. Then, once I start to hope, she crashes and I go into an obsessive depression. It's been a heck of a ride. Both my husband and I have wanted to euthanize, but never at the same time. We agree that the decision has to be mutual, and so far, that has kept her alive. The joyful days out-number the terrible days, but the terrible days are heart-breaking.
> 
> Wanting her to be "normal" again is probably a delusion on my part, but I sort of cling to it as a hope. I know on some level that our story probably has a bad ending. My huband reminds me of this whenever I start to think she's getting better.


So sorry to hear that you and your dog are going through all this. I hope you get some answers. I hope your "joyful days" continue and the terrible days become less and less.

Love the T shirt....my feelings exactly.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

How old was she when she started having seizures? In young dogs it's likely to be idiopathic (IOW no known cause) epilepsy and in older dogs it's more likely to be a tumor. I will say that for my epileptic dog, gold bead implants were close to a miracle in the last three years of his life. He went from monthly clusters to an occasional mild single seizure, and his affect and cognition improved almost immediately.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> How old was she when she started having seizures? In young dogs it's likely to be idiopathic (IOW no known cause) epilepsy and in older dogs it's more likely to be a tumor. I will say that for my epileptic dog, gold bead implants were close to a miracle in the last three years of his life. He went from monthly clusters to an occasional mild single seizure, and his affect and cognition improved almost immediately.


The strange smaller seizures (staring, tongue flicking like a snake, ending in vomiting) started when she was 3. When she would start to come out of them, she would run and hide under the bed. She was having these maybe twice a week that we saw. Then, in June, she went up for a retrieve and her whole body went limp in the air. She was paralyzed for a while. Then, for a couple of weeks, all four feet knuckled under and she wobbled like she had a head injury. The small seizures have nearly stopped, but she is so NOT right. She is 4. Will be 5 in December. I have a video that shows the problem, but I am not sure how to attach it.


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