# Mini Dalmatians?



## KcCrystal (Sep 12, 2008)

What in the world?

http://miniaturedalmatians.com/home.html


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

As interested as I am in these I can't in good conscience get one because I know they're just Chihuahua/Dalmatian mutts... You can really see the Chi in some of them  Just another designer breed...


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## KcCrystal (Sep 12, 2008)

they're really not that attractive at all. I figured they're mutts people are charging and arm and a leg for.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

If these are truthfully 100% dalmatian as they claim (it is possible that the people have just bred undersized dals together over years to get smaller and smaller ones), then I really want to know how they managed to breed deafness, kidney problems, and "aggressive behavior" out completely. Seems magical. 

I thought I read before that dalmatian mixes don't tend to retain the defined spots... but I'm not sure, so hopefully someone who knows more about genetics will come in here! Would a mix be born pure white and develop the spots later, like a pure dal?



> Q. What colors are available?
> A. All Dalmatians are born solid white, and then develop either Dilute or Mosaic spot patterns. The spots develop into several colors: black and white, liver and white, tri-colors, and brindles.


Also, nonexistent health guarantee:



> We have bred out deafness (1%), kidney problems (.5%), and aggressive behavior. All puppies have a 100% health guarantee (on delivery), however, the continued health of your pet is your responsibility.


And charging more for different colors, sizes, and sexes:



> Toy males start at $1500.00 and Toy females start at $2500.00. Prices are determined by sex, spot pattern, and size. Prices are subject to change without notice.


Yep, really reputable breeder we have here.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Yep they are just another "designer" mutt. They have been around for a while now.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> If these are truthfully 100% dalmatian as they claim (it is possible that the people have just bred undersized dals together over years to get smaller and smaller ones), then I really want to know how they managed to breed deafness, kidney problems, and "aggressive behavior" out completely. Seems magical. . . .


I had asked where that was found by just went back and answered my own question . . . found the FAQ page. 



> Q. How was the Miniature and Toy Dalmatian developed?
> A. The Miniature and Toy Dalmatian was developed over 16 years using nine generations of AKC Standard Dalmatians.


Have to be careful reading here . . . there is no 'only' in that sentence so that does not suggest crossbreeding didn't happen . . . just that a line of purebred Dals were used.

SOB


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

On the FAQ page, SOB. 



> Q. How was the Miniature and Toy Dalmatian developed?
> A. The Miniature and Toy Dalmatian was developed over 16 years using nine generations of AKC Standard Dalmatians.


Edit: And heh, yes, tricky wording! Would mixes be born white and develop spots later like a pure dal?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

If you look closely you can see that on many of the dogs the spots aren't as well defined as a purebred Dal's are.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> On the FAQ page, SOB.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: And heh, yes, tricky wording! Would mixes be born white and develop spots later like a pure dal?


I imagine they realized how to glean the extreme white spotting alleles from the Dals, and as well have worked on retaining the same kind of 'ticking' that Dals have. This would mean they have taken the 'color' genes from the Dalmatian stock and the colors would work the same way in these pups . . . with ticking developing as the dogs grow.

This is classic . . . the way that MANY of our small breeds were refined from larger working breeds through to the 19th Century, mixing with toy dogs to bring down size.

I hope they used kinder methods than were used in the past.

SOB


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I love how they have about 50 pictures of their gazebo but no pics of the inside of the kennel buildings. . ..

But, hey, if they can get a less than 10% deafness rate and don't kill deaf pups that makes them more ethical than regular Dal breeders, IMO.


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## jenneses (Aug 1, 2012)

Kayota said:


> As interested as I am in these I can't in good conscience get one because I know they're just Chihuahua/Dalmatian mutts... You can really see the Chi in some of them  Just another designer breed...


I wonder why these types of breeders don't use rat terriers instead of chi's.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Honestly as with most kind of "designer breeds" I don't see the appeal. I find the supply and demand for these type of things somewhat stupid. I got my dog from the pound, pure mutt, great temperament, and everywhere I take him I get stopped about how adorable he is and "what breed is he?" And it only cost me $60 to adopt him.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Horrible, horrible. Red flags all over this designer breeder.

Not much of a breed, either. There's so much variation between the individual dogs pictured, especially in facial structure. Except for dalmation-like color, they look like major mixes.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Just found this link from the testimonials page with photos of one of the pups there . . . was happy it wasn't gazebo photos!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacklyn-rhea/sets/72157604310811992/

The setup looks similar to many professional setups that I've seen, and better than some others. It is much better than the kennels that I was referred to here by those involved in showing when looking for a Cavalier. 

Myself, I'll reserve judgement and just keep looking for more info. I clearly remember when there were noses out of joint over the AKK and it seems any 'small' breed in development is target for the 'designer' labellers. It takes time and numbers to develop a breed and achieve type and I certainly wouldn't condone the methods that were used (tight inbreeding and culling of breeding stock) to develop breeds quickly in the past. 

I like the look of Dalmatians and small Dalmatians are even more appealing. My sister owned one and I've never been attracted to their temperament traits.

SOB


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I think they're adorable, but of course I'd never buy one.

It's strange that there isn't a legitimate mini dal available though, they have that unique look that most people like. Why not breed it into a smaller, lower maintenance package?


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

My cousin loves Dalmatians, had many in her lifetime but after the loss ad her last one she was wanting a smaller dig with similar personality, well, she got one of these from this breeder you linked. She LOVES her pup, Micky. She got him about two years ago. I don't see them as minimdalmations but she says he is just like her last boy. Shrug.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

> they have that unique look that most people like. Why not breed it into a smaller, lower maintenance package?


I agree. This breeder makes me suspicious though. I dont know much about breeding but he seems to hit a lot of the 'red flags'. The dogs are insanely expensive, they dont look at all standardized, raised outside, no health guarantee, claims to have no genetic problems, "bred out aggression"? Just makes me wonder.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't oppose people developing new breeds, although I'm a little iffy on people attempting to make new size varieties of existing breeds. I do not like it when they mislead people into believing their dogs are not mixes. This site really reads like these are purebred, toy and mini-sized dalmatians. I dislike how these breeders are referring to dalmatians as "standard dalmatians," as if size variations are already accepted. 

My main issues here, though, are with the health guarantee (or lack thereof -- their dogs are not guaranteed at all once they leave their property), the fact that they're claiming to have bred major dalmatian health issues out of their puppies, and the outrageous prices. I have no problem with good breeders charging high prices to recoup some of the costs of showing, trialing, proper health testing, etc... but these people obviously do not show or trial, and do not mention any health testing. They also charge different prices based on size, color, spot pattern, and sex (if all dogs sold have to be spayed or neutered, why are females $1000 more expensive than males?), which I hate to see even from a "good" breeder. I wouldn't buy from or recommend this breeder no matter what they were breeding.

It's also odd to me that they don't have a listing of the parent dogs anywhere. That's a major red flag to me. I have no idea how many dogs they own, what they look like... the only list of dogs on that site is a list of available puppies (and the most dalmatian-looking one is $5,000, wow. The $1,000-$2,000 ones all look like many mixes I've seen in shelters).

That's just my opinion, though -- these are things that are important to me when I choose a breeder. 

P.S. One of their pups is $750 because:



> Has hearing issues---"Uni" at best---Must have experience with deaf pups or already have a Miniature Dalmatian


Guess they didn't _quite_ breed deafness out.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

All dogs who have ticking of any kind are born "white" and develop ticking as they grow... Pure or mixed, Border Collie, Dalmatian, Pointer, or Spaniel... You get the idea. The areas with ticking will be white at birth.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

Are you on Reddit, per chance? There was just a "mini-Dal" discussion today, lol.


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> Not much of a breed, either. There's so much variation between the individual dogs pictured, especially in facial structure.


That's the first thing I noticed.

I don't have a problem with people developing new breeds, as long as it's done right. I don't think that's the case here. Dogs should be looking at least a little consistent before you start calling them a breed and charging tons of money. Not to mention health testing and guarantees, as well as the numerous other points already highlighted here.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah, someone in the process of developing a new breed properly would never charge $1500-$5000 for their "throwaway" dogs. They'd also be upfront about the breeds they were crossing in (The AKK's founder wasn't at first, which annoys me, although she listed her "ingredients" later) and would provide pics of all of their dogs. I'd hope they would also make sure all of their foundation dogs were as free of genetic issues as possible.


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## jenz (Aug 20, 2010)

> And charging more for different colors, sizes, and sexes:
> 
> Toy males start at $1500.00 and Toy females start at $2500.00. Prices are determined by sex, spot pattern, and size. Prices are subject to change without notice.
> Yep, really reputable breeder we have here.


Jeepers! I just noticed that one of the pups up for "adoption" (ummm....) is $5,000! 

:jaw:


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## Weazol (Aug 13, 2012)

Hahaha! I used to have a dachshund dalmation and he was the best dog ever! He lived to be 15 years old. Never heard of dalmation chihuahua....they are awkward looking little buggers! Are we gonna have a Dane mixed with a pom next and have a great pom?


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I actually think these dogs are really freaking cute, but they're mutts and the breeder needs to be up front about that before I would ever consider recommending them. I'd adopt a dog that looked like these from a shelter in a heartbeat.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I think they're adorable. Hopefully by the time I am an old blue hair and want wee dogs they will actually be a breed.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

jenz said:


> Jeepers! I just noticed that one of the pups up for "adoption" (ummm....) is $5,000!
> 
> :jaw:


Maybe becuz I followed Cavaliers for so long . . . I'm not a bit astonished at these prices. I've often seen much higher prices (often) for dogs predisposed to heightened health risks (by conformation or by known breed risk) than these, not only in Cavaliers but also in other breeds. 

SOB


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

zhaor said:


> Honestly as with most kind of "designer breeds" I don't see the appeal. I find the supply and demand for these type of things somewhat stupid. I got my dog from the pound, pure mutt, great temperament, and everywhere I take him I get stopped about how adorable he is and "what breed is he?" And it only cost me $60 to adopt him.


Random people stop me to tell how beautiful Kabota is all the time. Like 4-5 times per week, every week since I got him 8 months ago. Total cost? $250, with neutering, shots and the removal of a benign tumor. $2,500 for an equally mutt "mini dalmation"? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

Wow! Some of them look like dashounds or beagles with spots.This is just another Designer Dog breeder,creating there own breed.crazy:nono::nono:


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Toby is 50 lbs, but some of the pups look just like he did as a puppy!

He's 100% mutt, btw.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Amaryllis said:


> Random people stop me to tell how beautiful Kabota is all the time. Like 4-5 times per week, every week since I got him 8 months ago. Total cost? $250, with neutering, shots and the removal of a benign tumor. $2,500 for an equally mutt "mini dalmation"? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


I've come back to this thread as the reaction on it by many just blows me away. I started to post yesterday and decided to walk away, but today I can't . . . in a mood I guess.

I'm a little aghast at the idea that posters on this forum are going the route of looking at a price like this and saying it is high for a pup. I'm also not ready to accuse a breeder of not health testing on an assumption. When I checked out the site there were not specifics about health testing, but looking through the testimonials there is a hint they are done there. Has any accuser here written or communicated with this breeder to ask before making the accusation that health testing isn't done?

I don't believe I like this breeder's program, but the negative comments made about this breeder for little to know KNOWN reasons surely demonstrates the anti-breeder mentality that has reared its ugly head in the dog world.

What these comments show me is that many are ready to assume the worst about anyone who breeds, and especially if they breed dogs that are not on some groups 'approved list' of what should be bred. 

These dogs are not mutts. That is a fact. They are of known and recorded parentage. ANYONE who is throwing the term "MUTT" out there is showing their ignorance. Everyone of the dogs I looked at (there are mini-dal videos too) were also pretty freaking adorable.

About guarantees: I take issue with the idea that breeders that offer guarantees are doing good in the dog world. I feel the opposite in fact. The reality is that people need to understand that what is being offered for sale is a life and it cannot be guaranteed. Offering guarantees obfuscates this reality. Overall I believe the practise sends the wrong message. Others believe differently. Determinations about a breeder cannot be made on the basis of which ones offer or do not offer guarantees. They might just have a different philosophy from you. 

About price: I know MANY a person that has paid $2500 PLUS for dogs that have a heightened risk of poor heart health and syringomyelia, and that is just Cavalier owners that I know of. There are also those that pay similar or higher prices for French Bulldogs etc. and many other breeds that have a heightened risk - due to conformation - of health difficulties.

I know one retired teacher that paid $5000 for a Cavalier that had symptomatic SM by the age of two. I have an acquaintance with an English Bulldog that paid a similar price and has already had to get her dog's palate fixed, and he isn't yet full grown. I have a relative, and also a vet acquaintance, that paid $3000+ for a PET Labrador Retriever from specific lines (with shipping). I know dogs of similar size/personality can be easily found in the pound.

I don't like the volume of dogs this breeder produces, but I have seen this type of volume defended over and over again on forums from those who insist that to keep breeds from dying out the specialist breeders that know the breed best and breed in large enough numbers to properly 'select' and 'cull' are the ones that are doing best by the breeds. Logically that philosophy has merit even though I don't like it. In this case someone is trying to start one up so I see there would be a need for volume a well.

Because of volume I would PROBABLY choose not to purchase a pup from this breeder (I would have to know more to decide for sure), however to take this guy to task on his prices when those prices are commonly asked for from established breeds shows bigotry IMHO. It is MUCH harder to establish a breed than to take what someone has established already and keep it going. 

In the environment that has been fostered AGAINST breeders today, and ESPECIALLY against those that might think out of the box I imagine it is pretty much impossible and this thread highlights WHY so many are just sticking with F1 crosses insteady of putting the work into establishing new breeds.

Does anyone here know how long it took for the Cesky to become recognized? http://www.ridleyceskyterriers.co.uk/other.html

I saw this same kind of negative direction taken in threads about the AKK breeders before the breed was established. I have seen it first hand of the Carlin Pinscher breeders as well . . . some of whom I've communicated with from close to the beginning of their project. The same attitude surrounds EVERY single upstart breed and EVERY mention of outcrossing in breeds that would probably benefit from it.

What is it about non-established breeds and their breeders that brings out the worst in so many? Is it that they dare? Are people REALLY inclined to love crapping all over other people's dreams?

SOB


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

As I've said before, I don't object to the creation of new breeds if done well. I don't even truly object to the intentional creation of crossbreeds if done well. But - I just want the dogs to be a more consistent type before a breeder starts actually calling their creation a "breed".


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Mutt = mixed breed. _If_ these are not 100% dalmatian (I don't know for sure), then they're mutts. That's not an insult. (I'm not one of the people who believes nobody should buy mutts, though. If they're bred responsibly, that's fine by me.) 

I think that others are assuming some things, too. Several people here have implied that these breeders are attempting to establish a new breed. I see no real evidence of that. I see people selling "toy and mini dalmatians" and referring to AKC-registered dalmatians as "standard" dalmatians, as if these dogs are simply size variations. They claim to be "Home of the World's only Miniature Dalmatians," which suggests they are not cooperating with anyone else. I also see a press release claiming that what they are selling is already "a new breed," yet they do not have a breed club, a code of ethics, a standard, or any of the things I would expect from someone establishing a breed. 



> After 16 years and nine generations of selective line breeding from AKC standard dalmatians, the mini and toy dalmatians were developed. In the process, many of the faults that have long plagued standard dalmatians, such as deafness, kidney problems and aggressive behavior, were eliminated.


I'm confused by the site and the press release, really -- are these 100% dalmatian? If so, they wouldn't be a new breed. Or are these mostly dalmatian with some other small breeds mixed in to bring down the size? I may write and ask, because I am genuinely curious as to what the breeder's attempting here.

As for the prices, my issue is less with the prices themselves (although I do find them high) and more with the variation in the prices. Every dog they sell must be spayed or neutered. Why, then, do males cost $1000 less than females? Why are some females $2000 and some $5000? 

I don't condemn frenchie breeders for charging a lot for their dogs -- frenchies have small litters, and they're almost always born via expensive c-section. Cavaliers need a lot of health testing. All of the breeders I support also show their dogs or prove them in other ways, which are not cheap.

I agree that health guarantees are often useless, especially the ones that require you to return the dog for a replacement or refund. However, I still like to see them, as it makes me feel like the breeder stands behind the health of their lines.

Again, my main issues with this breeder:

1. They do not _seem_ to be attempting to create a new breed (I will find out more about this).
2. They do not provide a list or any pictures of any of their breeding stock.
3. Puppies vary wildly in price based on size, spot pattern, sex.
4. They claim to have eliminated deafness from their lines, yet are selling a deaf (or very nearly deaf) puppy.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm not at all against the creation of new breeds but I think there are some legitimate red flags here.

The dogs don't look standardized enough to be considered a new breed. The site implies that these dogs are purebred dalmatians which doesn't look to be the case from pictures. High volume, outdoor rearing which might be explained by your culling suggestion but if the dogs sold as pets are unsuitable or undesirable why do they cost $5,000? Claims to have entirely bred out common genetic problems from the dalmatian gene pool, in a breed thats not fully developed? Bred out aggression? Is that even possible? 

Despite claiming that all genetic issues are gone the breeder is unwilling to stand by that claim in the form of some kind of health guarantee. No mention anywhere on the site of how the pups are reared (aside from mentioning they are outside "in nature"). No pictures of the facilities. Don't seem to do any kind of home screening (beyond cursory application questions). No mention of health testing (doesnt mean it definitely isnt done but is suspicious nonetheless). Females are automatically $1,000 more? Why? No mention anywhere on the site of puppies parents, who they are, what their health status is, temperament, titles.

In a world where SO many dogs come from puppy mill "breeders" thats a lot of questions. Maybe they would have great answers for all of them. I hope they do, but I think its a good thing for people to be extremely cautious about the legitimacy of breeders and take those questions very seriously. That is so much better than accidentally supporting a puppy mill.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

> As I've said before, I don't object to the creation of new breeds if done well. I don't even truly object to the intentional creation of crossbreeds if done well. But - I just want the dogs to be a more consistent type before a breeder starts actually calling their creation a "breed".


I thought your post was a more positive one, but on this point do you object to JRTs and Border Collies being named as 'breeds' then? How about Tibetan Spaniels - an all color breed with all three bites commonly produced and different muzzle types as well?








- Border Collie

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/



> Mutt = mixed breed. If these are not 100% dalmatian (I don't know for sure), then they're mutts. That's not an insult. (I'm not one of the people who believes nobody should buy mutts, though. If they're bred responsibly, that's fine by me.)


Mutt does not = Mixed breed. Mutt means a dog of unknown heritage . . . and the word mutt has been lobbed about in a deliberately insulting manner in this thread so please do not insult my intelligence by pretending otherwise. 



> Again, my main issues with this breeder:
> 
> 1. They do not seem to be attempting to create a new breed (I will find out more about this).
> 2. They do not provide a list or any pictures of any of their breeding stock.
> ...


1. You haven't asked this breeder their intentions so you don't know if they are or are not. You are making assumptions on no information. Glad to know you will be looking into it further. My impression from something that I read yesterday was that this breeder does not intend on joining an umbrella registry and closing his foundation . . . . good move IMHO. I have to go back and see where I got this impression from.
2. Why the hell would they WANT to provide photos of breeding stock when we live in a world where there are zillions of dream squelchers ready to condemn anyone that breeds a dog that might be seen as 'less than perfect' in a photo? BTW - it took me all of five minutes to find photos which included breeding stock AND videos.
3. Puppies in many breeds vary in price - widely - depending on what is being offered for sale. I know a Cavalier offered for $750 while his sister went for $3000 . . . due to markings and sex, and THAT breeder shows at Westminster.
4. They have NOT claimed to have eliminated deafness in their lines. They state a 1% rate. It makes complete sense, actually, that they have DIMINISHED deafness through using other breeds as my understanding is that the deafness link in Dals probably has to do with it being linked to the piebald trait in the dogs used in the foundation of the Dalmatian breed. Bringing in piebald from breeds with less deafness risk would better the odds.



> We have bred out deafness (1%), kidney problems (.5%), and aggressive behavior. All puppies have a 100% health guarantee (on delivery), however, the continued health of your pet is your responsibility.





aiw said:


> I'm not at all against the creation of new breeds but I think there are some legitimate red flags here..


So do I. 

I was speaking to the fact that things that in this thread posters are on about things that are NOT red flags and then making jerky comments . . . such as by using the word 'mutt' deliberately insultingly and by making remarks about high prices and varied prices when high prices and varied prices are standard in many higher risk breeds . . . even despite the fact that health testing is also often remiss in those breeds and can't proclude a pup from risk of ailment.

There are also claims made that this breeder implies these dogs are purebred . . . when he does not . . . claims that this breeder says all health ailments are bred out . . . when he does not.



aiw said:


> The dogs don't look standardized enough to be considered a new breed. The site implies that these dogs are purebred dalmatians which doesn't look to be the case from pictures. High volume, outdoor rearing which might be explained by your culling suggestion but if the dogs sold as pets are unsuitable or undesirable why do they cost $5,000? Claims to have entirely bred out common genetic problems from the dalmatian gene pool, in a breed thats not fully developed?..


Please see my comment above. It seems to me some posters are skim reading the FAQ page and deciding things are said there that have not been.



aiw said:


> Bred out aggression? Is that even possible? ..


Do you know the reputation for Dalmatians and aggression? My sister owned one for 14 years and I was there when she was finding a breeder. She also dealt with aggression (toward people) with her well reared and trained boy (sweet to them though). Put this breeder's statement into the context of what is known to happen with many Dalmatians and you might understand what is meant.



> I think its a good thing for people to be extremely cautious about the legitimacy of breeders and take those questions very seriously. That is so much better than accidentally supporting a puppy mill


Me too. Too bad the message coming across wasn't about caution. That would have been one I could have gotten on board with.

SOB


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I stand by my opinion -- "mutt" is synonymous with "mixed breed" _to me_ and is not a dirty word _to me_. That said, I hadn't referred to these dogs as mutts even once before your post objecting to it, so you weren't talking about me in that one anyway.

Like I said before, I see a lot of red flags here, and I'd bring them up no matter what these people were breeding. If you disagree with my opinions, that's totally fine, but know that I am not one to hate on people for establishing new breeds, nor am I one to hate on people for breeding mixes. I'm also all for outcrossing in breeds that need help. 

I understand that everyone has different ideas about what they consider a good breeder, and I'm skeptical about this guy. That said, I am willing to be proven wrong, so I'll wait and see what other info we learn.

*Edited to add:* The press release linked on his site says this:



> In the process, many of the faults that have long plagued standard dalmatians, such as deafness, kidney problems and aggressive behavior, were eliminated.


That may be where some of the confusion about eliminated vs. nearly eliminated comes from. The site gives percentages; the press release just says the problems are gone.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I emailed and asked (very politely) if the dogs were 100% dalmatian or if other, smaller breeds of similar conformation were added to bring down the size, and I also asked about any health issues and any recommended health testing. I got an e-mail back, but it was only one line long and said I had to call him if I wanted to discuss the breed. I'm not comfortable doing that, but if someone else wants to, feel free.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

spanielorbust said:


> Mutt does not = Mixed breed. Mutt means a dog of unknown heritage . . . and the word mutt has been lobbed about in a deliberately insulting manner in this thread so please do not insult my intelligence by pretending otherwise.


SOB- I do agree with some of your points, but I really don't think "mutt" is an insulting term. The breeder is making it seem like these are 100% dalmatian, and we are wondering if other breeds have been bred in. If they claim 100% dal but thats not what you're getting, I would classify that as unknown parentage (to the buyer) and therefore a mutt.

I think mutt/ mixed breed can be used interchangably. I call Bubba a mutt, even though his parentage can be traced back for decades. He's a mix of golden and lab, and therefore...a mutt. It isnt a nasty term, I call all my dogs mutts!


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

> Q. How was the Miniature and Toy Dalmatian developed?
> A. The Miniature and Toy Dalmatian was developed over 16 years using nine generations of AKC Standard Dalmatians.


This absolutely implies that their dalmatians are purebred. Reading it VERY closely reveals the possibility that other breeds are mixed in addition to the AKC dalmatians. There is no mention anywhere on the site about other breeds having been mixed in. Perhaps grammatically this isn't a lie but it is definitely intentionally misleading.



> A. Other than the size, we have bred out deafness (1%), kidney problems (.5%), and aggressive behavior.


The press release actually says the problems are non-existent and the FAQ gives such low numbers as to be practically non-existent. If this claim is true it would be quite the feat, taking a breed known specifically for these problems and solving them entirely. Maybe these issues were solved by outcrossing with other breeds. If thats the case I would expect the breeder to be up front about that which invalidates the previous answer. 

Again the volume, the complete absence of information about parentage and health testing coupled with no health guarantee makes me suspicious. Honestly, their pricing method for puppies from an unproven line also makes me wonder. Maybe I've got this operation all wrong but there is enough here to make any educated buyer a little wary. I'm not condemning all breeders or breed creators, I'm not even condemning this one, just saying that even to an amateur there are major red flags.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

As for all the "mutt" and designer breed name calling I agree with you that every breed came from SOMEWHERE and I actually happen to agree with the idea of hybrid vigour (not to mention the fact that my dearly loved dogs are "mutts"). It really doesn't matter to me if someone wants to create a new breed, miniaturize and old one or create the first purple dog, as long as the breeder is responsible about health, temperament, home selection and upfront about their animals then have at it!

Just an aside, I think mini dals are a great idea. If they can be produced responsibly I'm totally on board!


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