# Daddy The Pit Bull



## no1daddythepitbullfan (Mar 8, 2009)

Does anyone know exactly what kind of dog Daddy the Pit Bull from The Dog Whisperer is? I'm pretty sure he's not a pure American Pit Bull Terrier, a pure American Staffordshire Terrier, or a pure Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Does anyone know the exact mix he is? Maybe he is a pure breed, but I don't know. Here are some pictures of him.

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/gallery/daddy.php

Thanks!


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## HersheyBear (Dec 13, 2008)

He is an American Bully, which is an intentional crossing of the American Pit Bull Terrier with the American Staffordshire Terrier for a larger, "bullier", and bulkier dog. American Bully is a relatively new term, and a lot of uninformed people , and backyard breeders, will still refer to them as "pit bulls" despite them not being full pit bull. American Bullies generally top out at over 80lbs, which is over 20lbs heavier than the heaviest of full APBT's. Some merely look like thicker, bigger versions of pit bulls, while others are more extreme and resemble low-rider "hippos".

Certain pit bull blood lines, like Razor's Edge, Greyline, and similar, are the precursor to the American Bully style pit bull, and are Am. Staff/APBT crosses


Cesar's Dogster page for Daddy has him as an Am. Staff/APBT:


http://www.dogster.com/dogs/456424



Examples of Am. Bullies :

http://i44.tinypic.com/30m0l6g.jpg









http://i41.tinypic.com/2zoaqh2.jpg


For comparison's sake:
*
Staffordshire Bull Terrier:
*

http://i41.tinypic.com/30hliz9.jpg
A champion staffy at Crufts.

*
American Staffordshire Terrier:*

http://i40.tinypic.com/qnqyyv.jpg
AKC CH UKC CH Hilltop's Little Lily Of Skye CERF

*
American Pit Bull Terrier:
*

(As the ADBA and UKC have different physical standards for the APBT, you'll find both leaner, more "terrier-like" APBT's (ADBA standard), and more thickset, heavier APBT's (UKC standard). The ADBA pit bull is the closest one can come to the original APBT - the UKC dogs closely resemble the Am. Staff.)(


















ADBA Ch. Narnia

http://i43.tinypic.com/fyl30y.jpg ADBA-standard APBT.


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## no1daddythepitbullfan (Mar 8, 2009)

Thank You for the information!


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Daddy is a sadly overweight "pit bull" without any known background (to my knowledge) so its hard to say.

If I had to make a call I'd say he looks to have a lot of OFRN/Clouse blood in him, particularly looking a lot like some of the old Sarona dogs. This is a bloodline of American Pit Bull Terrier. You can research more to find out about these dogs. Some people have bred the OFRN dogs up in size and weight as some of the earlier dogs were heavier then typical in the first place. Some breeders breeding for size, build (wider/shorter leg) and color (red nose was wanted like blue nose now). If you search on these lines you will see a great resemblance to Daddy in his facial features and build with some of the dogs. APBTs have a wide variance of looks. These dogs were around well before Am Bullies ever came on the scene. 

Here are just a few pics. You can do more research yourself. There really isn't a way to know what Daddy is made of though without a pedigree.








OFRN male









Clouse male

He may very well be mixed too and probably from a byb, so again hard to say. An AST can still be registered as APBT and are bred together, it isn't considered a cross or called an American Bully. An AmBully is a dog bred for an extreme look, although there are cross breds in the American Bully lines that have been admitted to (with other larger breeds outside of the Pit Bull breeds). If it is a AST/APBT bred together then its still considered pure depending on who's opinion and what type of dog they're looking for. It isn't of pure game lines but registered and shown as pure. Point is an AST is still considered as pit bull (as is a SBT) by many, its not incorrect to call them a pit bull nor it is only done by bybs. Breeding any of these 3 breeds together and calling them pit bulls is also not considered incorrect. Some APBT might be pure but have been bred for extreme looks by breeding the faults and heavy set traits in. It really depends which line/dog you're looking at. 

There is no place that I've ever seen that list the "heaviest of full APBTs" whatever that is? I'm guessing that to mean pure. There is a desired top weight for mature adults of 65lbs, which is 15lbs less then 80, not over 20. There are several APBTs well known ones who are/were over 60lbs. Often referred to as catch weight. CH Alligator for instance was about 80lbs and was around before Am Bullies. GR CH May Day 75lbs, considered a real APBT by anyone who knows this breed, only 5lbs less then the 80lbs mark. To say those dogs were not "full pit bulls" is just ridiculous.


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## no1daddythepitbullfan (Mar 8, 2009)

Interesting! I've never heard that explanation before. Thank You.


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## HersheyBear (Dec 13, 2008)

The Am. Staff has been divided from the APBT for over a 100 years, and has become a much different dog from its APBT "cousin". Cesar Milan says he is an Am. Staff/APBT cross, so that's what I'm sticking with. There is no way an 80 lb pit bull is pure. Both the UKC and ADBA standards have them at much less of an average weight than that. The American Bully name is recent, but the idea of breeding Staffs and Pit Bulls has indeed been around for awhile. They just are not full pit bulls, and shouldn't be referred to as such.

While Staffy Bulls and Am. Staffs are classified as Pit Bulls for BSL purposes and by the uninformed, only the American Pit Bull Terrier should be called pit bull. A staffy/APBT cross, an Am. Staff/Staffy Bull Cross, or a mix of two or more would not be considered a pit bull, but would be a mix breed or hybrid.

The bully breeds are all distinct breeds, just as the Retrievers are all distinct breeds, the Spaniels, and so on.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

HersheyBear said:


> The Am. Staff has been divided from the APBT for over a 100 years, and has become a much different dog from its APBT "cousin". Cesar Milan says he is an Am. Staff/APBT cross, so that's what I'm sticking with. There is no way an 80 lb pit bull is pure. Both the UKC and ADBA standards have them at much less of an average weight than that. The American Bully name is recent, but the idea of breeding Staffs and Pit Bulls has indeed been around for awhile. They just are not full pit bulls, and shouldn't be referred to as such.
> 
> While Staffy Bulls and Am. Staffs are classified as Pit Bulls for BSL purposes and by the uninformed, only the American Pit Bull Terrier should be called pit bull. A staffy/APBT cross, an Am. Staff/Staffy Bull Cross, or a mix of two or more would not be considered a pit bull, but would be a mix breed or hybrid.
> 
> The bully breeds are all distinct breeds, just as the Retrievers are all distinct breeds, the Spaniels, and so on.



The only place I have seen Cesar refer to Daddy as an Am Staff/Pit Bull is on Daddy's Dogster profile. Other than that, on Cesar's site, on tv, in his books, etc, he always refers to him as a Pit Bull.

Even if he did originate from a American Pit Bull Terrier/Am Staff Terrier breeding, he is still a Pit Bull. 

The American Pit Bull Terrier / Staffordshire Terrier split did not occur until 1936. Much less than a hundred years ago by my math. The reason for the split is that those that showed dogs in conformation wanted to be part of the AKC. The fighters wanted no part of it. The AKC accepted the breed but wanted a different name to distant it from its fighting roots. The name American Staffordshire Terrier was adopted in the Early 1970's when the AKC admitted the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Which was more the English type dog. No matter the name, all three dogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers, all come from the same genetic foundations. All of these dogs came out of the pits of the British isles derived from Bull Dog / Game Terrier crosses. And they are all the same breed. Am Staffs can be registered as pit bulls in the UKC and some interbreeding between the lines occurs at times.

The appearance of Am Staffs has changed in some lines over the years but the breed standard is still the same as it was when it was originally adopted in August of 1936. 

There is some variance in appearance between bloodlines in American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers. But there are variances in bloodlines of all breeds.

A show line Lab looks different than a field trial line which may look a bit different than a hunting line. A working line German Shepherd Dog will look very different than a show line animal. But that does not mean they are different breeds. It simply means that different breeders are looking for different things out of a gene pool. 

And in reference to the amount of time between the split between Am Saffs and APBTs, time is not relevent here. If you took a bloodline of Doberman's that has been bred and developed here in the US for the last 150 years and a closed bloodline from Germany that has had no influence from any American Dogs, would they be two different breeds? Or two different bloodlines? 

The original genetic foundation is still the same so they would be different bloodlines of the same breed. Its the same with APBTs, Am Staffs, and Staff Bulls.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Well said JohnnyBandit  i agree with all you wrote.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

HersheyBear said:


> The Am. Staff has been divided from the APBT for over a 100 years, and has become a much different dog from its APBT "cousin". Cesar Milan says he is an Am. Staff/APBT cross, so that's what I'm sticking with. There is no way an 80 lb pit bull is pure. Both the UKC and ADBA standards have them at much less of an average weight than that. The American Bully name is recent, but the idea of breeding Staffs and Pit Bulls has indeed been around for awhile. They just are not full pit bulls, and shouldn't be referred to as such.
> 
> While Staffy Bulls and Am. Staffs are classified as Pit Bulls for BSL purposes and by the uninformed, only the American Pit Bull Terrier should be called pit bull. A staffy/APBT cross, an Am. Staff/Staffy Bull Cross, or a mix of two or more would not be considered a pit bull, but would be a mix breed or hybrid.
> 
> The bully breeds are all distinct breeds, just as the Retrievers are all distinct breeds, the Spaniels, and so on.


LMAO the only *uninformed* one on this is *you*. The AST hasn't even existed for over 100yrs so how could it be separate from the APBT for that? Please explain with your vast knowledge. The "AST" has been in "existence" for less then 73yrs for one. Secondly just because a new name was slapped on the APBT doesn't mean it instantly became a different breed. Game bred dogs were originally registered and some kept game for generations (and duel with UKC), more game dogs were also added in the 70s to the AST. IMO they are a separate type now with very little exception to that big rule. I personally call them different breeds but its splitting hairs, same with SBT. Breeds can and do develop from one breed without out crossing when they are bred in different directions. However breeding an APBT/AST together doesn't make an AmBully. There is much more to an AmBully then that. 

So in your uneducated opinion GR CH May Day, Colby's Pincher, CH Alligator, GR CH Black Jack Jr, CH Black Demon are mutts or American Bullies or is it AmStaff. Right.  Before you try to pass information to others perhaps educate yourself first. If Colby's Pincher (and the rest) is whatever you believe he is then most all APBTs are not pure APBTs at all. They are I guess AmBully or AmStaff right? So then there is no such thing as a pure APBT since most have these AmBully/AST/mutts in their pedigree. Yes this opinion makes a whole lot of sense. Hammonds dogs are AmBullies too, after all if its bred down from an Am Bully like Alligator then they too must be classified as mixes. Cool I have an AmBullies awesome!

You don't even make half way sense as you contradict yourself. You said a pure APBT won't be 80lbs but then say this dog "Daddy" is an APBT/AST which means he's still pure _genetically_. If an AST can reach 80lbs or an APBT/AST can reach 80lbs then so can an APBT. The genes had to come from somewhere. That is called common sense. They bred the AST bigger (at least most breeders did) and the same can be done with the APBT.

I'm sure actual dogmen would beg to differ as several of them owned and even campaigned AST/APBT, not anything near an AmBully. 

So you are the only source of true information? Only your opinion is correct and only you must be informed of something everyone else missed. Including the people who've been breeding/owning real APBTs for decades (owning some the "greats" even) who call AST/APBT dogs Pit Bulls. Then the fact which they call their own dogs Pit Bulls, including some of those over 65lbs greats. Its nothing to do with BSL and it'd be nice to see you tell them to their face that they are the uniformed ones. Its really meaningless if only you believe your opinion and no one else follows it. 

Neither the UKC or ADBA has average weights. Cite this if its true? The UKC has a desired weight of 35-65lbs for mature male APBTs in good condition. ADBA has nothing at all. In fact Frank Ferris himself had AST/APBT game dogs. 

Here is a 2xw Am Bully. Wow guess those AmBullies are game lol Right 









Well you learn something new everyday. There are no APBTs out there. Only APBT/AST or AmBully dogs. Next I speak with the Greenwoods I'll be sure to tell them their dogs are mutts but to keep up appearances they should stop registering AST and SBT as APBTs even though we all have AmBullies and there are no APBTs.


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## PaintedPretty33 (Mar 4, 2009)

Has anyone thought to ask Ceasar? He is the only one who could honestly tell us what breed Daddy is and that's if and ONLY IF he got Daddy as a pup and knew where he came from.

The OP asked if anyone knows exactly what breed he is... not for everyone to get into a decent sized discussion on breed specifics.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

True Paintedpretty. I said I don't know (I doubt he got Daddy from a breeder, actually think I remember something to the contrary) without a pedigree its hard to say. However I gave a best guess, he looks so much like the Clouse or Sarona dogs. Although he could have none at all in his pedigree seems really possible to me (even if he is part AST or x breed). I didn't get all my dogs as pups but I know what breeds and bloodlines they are. Threads evolve and if I see misinformation about the APBT said in any thread I usually point it out.


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## 3dogmom26 (Dec 31, 2008)

Daddy doesn't belong to Caesar guys. He is the rapper, Redman's dog, and he is away for shows and such a lot so he stays with Caesar a lot. Just an FYI. And in my opinion, he's a badly bred, Am. Bully/pitbull/staffie......I'm no expert...at all.......just my opion. And because of those mixes, he's labeled a pitbull.

Edited: I stand corrected, it looks like Redman did in fact give Daddy to Caesar when he felt he couldn't care for him properly anymore. I apologize.


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## MoonStr80 (Oct 9, 2006)

I thought you made a thread to tell us he passed away


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## WhiplashAPBTs (Nov 17, 2009)

Not to bump a really old topic or anything but, HersheyBear please in the future ask before you use pictures of my dog, or at the very least give credit or something.



HersheyBear said:


>


That is my boy Red Bull. 









Another pic of him


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Well since you are here you should very well post some pics of your fine looking bulldogs. 

Have to admit I'm guilty of using a pic of Gaia from the PNP forum, she was the only dog I could think of off the top of my head that using a springpole. Well one other than mine that I could actually find a good pic of. Should we say "owned by WhiplashAPBTs" I'm fine for doing that, just making sure if that is appropriate credit.


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## WhiplashAPBTs (Nov 17, 2009)

I wouldn't have an issue at all if I was a member here or if it was posted by someone I 'know' (so you're fine spicy lol) I guess since I found it doing a google search on a random forum I was just a bit surprised. I think one of my biggest issues though was that I have no idea who he/she is and since there is no name along with that pic or anything I have no clue if they are/have claimed him as their dog etc. I suppose it just kinda brushed me the wrong way... plus it's an unedited version of a picture I don't like much less know how they found it! lmao

Sorry to disturb the the board if I did as it wasn't my intention!


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