# Shiba Inu Scream every time we're too far/not visible



## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

I recently (2 weeks ago) got a new Shiba Inu puppy.

When he's around people, he's generally a bundle of joy.
The moment we kennel him for night (or to go out of the house) he starts screaming and wailing and howling. He also does this if we put him outside on a lead and go back inside (leaving him alone).

At night we'll put him away and he's at it for at least .5-1 hour. As long as we don't make any noise he'll eventually shut up and go to sleep, but the moment we go down the stairs in the morning he's back at it again. I try to wait until he pauses before I show up to let him out and feed him, but sometimes that could take 10-20 minutes.

I was told if I just don't respond to the screaming that he'll grow out of it. Is this true? Do I need to approach this differently? It sounds like classic separation anxiety.

My first dog I got at 6 months, and he was generally quiet at night, so I don't know how long to expect this to last.
I'm worried that I'm bothering the neighbors when he's outside, but when I'm working on the lawn I don't feel right leaving him indoors (in the kennel or play pen, because he's not to be trusted alone) The moment I go around the corner he has a fit!

I'd try a bark collar if he was older, but I'd prefer not to resort to that.

Will he actually grow out of it? 

I tried giving him a little more room to roam (play pen) but that didn't work. He just freaks out and pushes the pen around until it collapses and he gets free roam of the room we have it in (which I think he still freaks out, just no longer confined)


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## Chichan (Apr 1, 2014)

Sounds like classic separation anxiety to me.
And yes he will grow out of it.
Every dog is different, SA lasted 2 days with my puppy.
Just tough it out and make sure he gets no reaction to his barking and whining.


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## pandification (Apr 15, 2014)

Most puppies do go through this, especially if they're new to your family and home. 

Give it time, ignore the cries (as hard as it is!) and wait it out.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Most puppies go through this and most grow out of it if you ignore it and reward for being quiet in the crate. 

SA is a whole spectrum covering dogs who are mildly anxious when you leave, to those who panic and destroy the house. I would say my dog has mild SA and he will barks for at least 5-10min when we leave, but he settles down after that and doesn't destroy things, so it's not really a big deal. Maturity helps a lot, as does ignoring in the crate and not rewarding the barking.


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## XenaWarrior (Apr 22, 2014)

Our new puppy does this too. She cries, yelps, and whines if we're not in sight. My husband claps his hands to get her attention/make her stop and then he tells her to go to bed. She quiets down after he does this a few times. We don't cage her but my Mom caged her dog's and I know her lab used to scream/bark. She put blankets and his favorite toy in the cage and it helped a lot. Maybe you can try that?


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Just so you know the screaming thing will never stop, it's a breed trait and they are well known for it....he'll find something else to scream about eventually. My shiba is 6 years old and HATES!! baths, he screams every time but a LOT of shibas don't like water. Also please DON'T bark collar him he's just being a normal puppy he's still adjusting to his new surroundings. Just work with him, don't just put him in there at night leave it open during the day with some treats inside, make it a fun experience and soon he'll go right in the crate at night. He's just a puppy after all. Also bark collars WILL NOT get rid of the screaming


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

I'd be okay if he'd just freak out during baths. This is EVERY night, and EVERY time we let him out to pee. He's making all the sounds that you'd bring an exorcist to get rid of. 
It's almost been 3 weeks and he's kept up the same level of intensity. 
He gets a treat every time we put him in it, and he has to be in it for 3-5 hours while people are out working, so it's not like it's only once a day.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Peppermonkey said:


> I'd be okay if he'd just freak out during baths. This is EVERY night, and EVERY time we let him out to pee. He's making all the sounds that you'd bring an exorcist to get rid of.
> It's almost been 3 weeks and he's kept up the same level of intensity.
> He gets a treat every time we put him in it, and he has to be in it for 3-5 hours while people are out working, so it's not like it's only once a day.


 He's still adjusting to it, he was with his family all his life and is still adjusting like I said. He likes being with you so obviously he doesn't like going in the cage. also the sounds he's making are normal for shibas...it's weird the noises they make


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

He originally would freak out for 30 minutes, now it's been a solid hour. 
I stomped on the floor after an hour (he's in the basement) and it'll generally stop. I fear this will only exacerbate the problem, but I needed sleep. 

I'm beginning to lose hope that this dog will ever calm down. He's almost 16 weeks now and we've been fairly consistent, but he's still freaking out when left alone.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

16 weeks is nothing. He is going to be a puppy until he turns a year old. Shibas have a very strong sense of what is right and he is going to keep this up for longer rather than shorter. He wants to be with his family. Dogs are social animals.

Why must he be in the basement? Either it is going to be a really long haul until he finally gives up or bring him into your room at night. Earplugs all around and you might give some to your poor neighbors as well.


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

It's either have him in the basement or have his loud screaming for hours on end right next to us. 

My neighbors can't hear him when he's in the basement. 
We have an ongoing rule for the dogs to not be in the bedroom. 
With our last dog (who is 2 years old now) if he was in his kennel while we were in the room, he'd start getting really barky at random times, and putting him in the basement when kenneled was the solution to that (once he's out and about, we keep him out of the basement, as he likes to sneak down there and poop).


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Peppermonkey said:


> It's either have him in the basement or have his loud screaming for hours on end right next to us.
> 
> My neighbors can't hear him when he's in the basement.
> We have an ongoing rule for the dogs to not be in the bedroom.
> With our last dog (who is 2 years old now) if he was in his kennel while we were in the room, he'd start getting really barky at random times, and putting him in the basement when kenneled was the solution to that (once he's out and about, we keep him out of the basement, as he likes to sneak down there and poop).


I really don't think a shiba is the right breed for you...they are SUPER stubborn dogs and if they think there is ANY chance of you giving up then you are in trouble. Don't stomp on the ground that is giving attention and therefore keep the behavior happening. Does he have any toys in the crate to keep him a little busy? I've never had a shiba puppy before but my shiba now is stubborn but most of the time will do what we say unless he's off leash then he's not going to listen. Also my shiba screams THE ENTIRE time he is given a bath, I just gave him one 2 days ago because he was getting stinky and he screamed the ENTIRE time.

Luckily baths are only like 10 minutes so it's not too bad but the point is he knows he's getting that bath and he hates every second so if screaming makes the bath quicker *because he knows it's really annoying to us* then he's going to do it and he does. Just be consistent, I honestly think you should've researched more about shibas before getting one.....what attracted you to a shiba inu?


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

I'll avoid stomping then.

At the moment he doesn't have a toy, but I can give him one. He originally had a toy but he'd still scream, then if I didn't let him out in time he'd have a pee covered toy. 

He is a very well behaved puppy, as long as someone's around. 
I knew coming into this that the breed was generally stubborn. I just like to know how long to expect this behavior. If it takes till a year old, that's fine, I'll get earplugs.


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

Just an update.
Two months later and the puppy still screams in the kennel for at least 10-30 minutes, slightly less than the 30-40 minutes two months ago, though I really haven't timed it.
He still barks quite a bit when I let him outside.
He still pees in his kennel almost nightly (he was good for almost a week).

He's managed to get out of his kennel (by folding it inward somehow) about 4-5 times, had to tie parts of the kennel down multiple times.

I just want him to stop peeing overnight so I can finally let him out of the kennel at night.
When is a dog usually at full control bladder-wise?
Would a slightly larger kennel help his freaking out a bit? He's a bit tight in there, but he can stand up and turn around.

I know at 6 months I can't expect him to last an entire 8 hours for sleep.


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## Kibasdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Do you limit his water intake in the evenings and take him for a walk before bedtime ?
Shibas are very clean dogs and don't like to potty where they live. Kiba will not potty in his own yard unless he has absolutely no choice. he would rather hold it until we go for a walk.
And more playtime to tire him out before bedtime.


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

5 months later...

We do limit his water intake. Once around 8 with his food, once around noon, and once around 6.
He seems to hold it for around 3 hours. When we let him outside on the lead he will pee in the yard without issue.
I praise him every time I notice him peeing outside, though I don't give him any treats for it.

He chewed up his kennel. Bent/ripped out bars and got his head stuck in it.
He still would pee in his kennel up to that point.
We tried a larger kennel, and he continued to pee and destroy the kennel.

We decided to move him (and his Corgi brother, who is at this point 100% housebroken) to the computer room, he stopped screaming, however he still peed in the corner almost every night.
On occasion he would get into something in the computer room (chew up a cable, tear up his bed, etc).

For a while we were using the computer room mainly to keep him away from chewing a bunch of other things (sliding glass doors, baseboards, wooden benches, everything that tasted good, hardwood floors). After buying a lot of chew toys we believe he's finally past that stage.

He now has free roam of the house (since he doesn't seem to chew everything in sight anymore). He pees in the same two spots in the house overnight (and any time we're gone for more than 3 or so hours). Sometimes he doesn't, but that's few and far between. I clean up the spots every time I notice them, with a mixture of 1/2 water 1/2 white vinegar on hardwood floors.
I've tried nature's miracle but it doesn't get rid of the pee smell.
I've noticed that the hard wood has started to discolor and warp, so there's that expensive repair down the line.

Would re-introducing a crate be a good idea, even though it didn't solve the peeing issue from the start? How do I keep him from freaking out and destroying it?
If one dog is fine (the corgi) outside of a kennel, do I kennel just the Shiba?

A good plan of attack that doesn't involve destroyed kennels, destroyed hardwood floors, screaming dogs, or me getting up every 3 hours at night (he's a year old, he should be able to last 8 hours at night....) would be preferable.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Has been checked by a vet? When our puppy was 12 1/2 weeks, he could go all night without a potty break. 

If he's consistently going in the same two spots, I'd block his access. I suspect that he can still smell urine in those areas, especially since you mentioned the discolored, warped wood. 

Start treating when he goes outside - whatever he absolutely loves, give it to him _only_ when he goes outside.

You could try crate games to help him deal with being in the crate (there's a post with a description or you could buy the Susan Garrett DVD). If the corgi is fine, no need to crate him. I have our puppy crated and our older dog loose; they don't seem to care.

Since this has been going on for quite a few months, it may be time to consult someone in person to assess the situation. S/He will be able to see what's going on and offer suggestions based on your situation. Pet Professional Guild has a directory of force-free trainers.


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

He hasn't been looked at for that particular reason, I figured I can mention it when I get his shots renewed for 2015.
I'll see what I can do to block it, though the layout of the house makes it difficult to do so without him losing access to most of the rest of the house.

I'll look into trying crate games.

I'll probably hold off getting professional help until I feel I can afford such things.


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

Shiba's are one of the most profficient people trainers I have ever met. I know thats not very constructive for the thread sorry.


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## Galathiel (Apr 11, 2012)

If you do decide to get a crate, you might look into a plastic (varikennel type) crate instead of a metal. They are much harder to get out of.


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

3 more months later...

I have kept him with free roaming, praising him every time he goes potty outside, and as long as we keep letting him out every 2-4 hours we usually don't see a pee spot.

Except for night. Almost Every. Single. Night. There is a pee spot on my hard wood floors. Sometimes in the same place, sometime migrates a few feet.
I ALWAYS clean it up with half and half vinegar water.
I'm going to have to rip up the boards for how much damage has been done to them now.

I'm still limiting his water intake. He doesn't get any water after 7 pm.

I bought a new plastic kennel a couple months ago and have been feeding him inside it. He seems to have no issues with being fed in it, however, tonight was the first night I tried actually putting him in the kennel overnight.
He still hates them. Still barks every 15 or so seconds (just enough to keep me awake for 3 hours). I went back and noticed a large chew mark in the plastic against the door. He hasn't destroyed it but if I gave him a couple days I bet he'll have destroyed ANOTHER $50+ kennel.

I'm not letting him out of the kennel until the morning. I've no idea if he'll pee on himself nowadays, but here's hoping that he gets the memo that peeing at night is not okay.

Also, he doesn't scream anymore to go back inside, but after he's done his business outside he does his incessant barking every 10 seconds and pulls on the tie out as hard as he can, wearing out all the grass in a semicircle(I need a fence, but I can't afford it at the moment).


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## notgaga (Oct 25, 2014)

Can't you block his access off to most of the house at night? Shut him in a room he doesn't pee in? I don't understand why he has free roam when he's consistently peeing inside.

During the time you've had him did you ever take him out during the night? Dogs his age should be able to hold it... And should've been able to do so since a much younger age. Maybe you should schedule a time or two to take him out at night to pee and see if that helps? Don't talk to him or engage him, just take him out let him pee and go back to sleep.


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## ChelseaOliver (Nov 5, 2014)

ETA: Didn't realize this was an old post. He definitely shouldn't have free roam if he's peeing overnight. Also, why is he put on a tie out alone to do his business? It might be better for you to go out with him just around your house, or take him for short potty walks. For cleaning up pee, you need a proper enzymatic cleaner to remove the smell, vinegar and water usually won't cut it.


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

Update after another 9 months.

Mochi is now okay with his kennel. There's no pee in his kennel.
However during the day he has free-roam. He doesn't pee on the hardwood anymore, but he seems to have found a new spot: the carpet in the living room.

He's kenneled during the night.

Aaaaaand I now have a second shiba. She also HATES her kennel (after 5 days). She'll scream and eventually after 30-45 minutes she'll shut up and fall asleep.
If we wake her it starts all over again.

This time we're more able to ignore the screams, but it's still quite annoying at night.
The Shiba is a girl this time so there's no chance that she can pee outside her kennel, and she's doing really well so far (I'm watching her like a hawk!).


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

Try feeding him right on the spots where he likes to pee. This really works quite well for most dogs. If he finds a new spot, move the food bowl there. Eventually he may run out of spots away from an eating area!


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Awe another shiba  pictures please


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

Here's a link to the album I threw together.

http://imgur.com/a/g66Mr


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Peppermonkey said:


> Here's a link to the album I threw together.
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/g66Mr


She's so cute!!! Also on the last picture I can read your name and address and some other stuff so I would either take that one off or black out the info


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## Peppermonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

Thanks, I edited the image.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Peppermonkey said:


> Thanks, I edited the image.


No problem, I knew that if it was me I'd want someone to say something


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