# EMERGENCY: my 4 month Border Collie mix has been attacked by another dog



## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

so the worse thing that could happen to a newbie dog owner just did.
we were just walking around the neighborhood, same streets we walked for 2 days already.
then we passed by this house. i knew their dog is aggressive towards my dog because we've passed by there for 2 days and it always barked aggressively at Jura, but everything was good because their gate is closed

but today i noticed the gate is open, the owners are there though beside the dog, fixing some car issue i think. i assumed their dog is leashed/chained so me and Jura just passed by, then suddenly their dog(medium size) came rushing without any warning/bark and bite Jura. it was a medium sized dog but Jura is still 4 months so he was like a small toy on the dog's mouth. their dog trashed Jura around for a few seconds before me and the owner got the dog to drop Jura. 

I immediately went to check Jura's bites, he bit me. then i waited for a few seconds to get him to calm down and then i checked on him, he didn't bite me anymore, i guess he finally recognized me. he has 3 bites. not deep but skin is definitely breached. in fact removed i think, because i see some small triangle-like spots and i can see the second layer of my Jura's skin. there wasnt a lot of blood. i didn't panic during the attack, but the owner definitely did. but i kinda regret being too calm. i think i should have been angry with the owners.

she gave me some first aid stuff, called Betadine and some band-aids. i applied the Betadine immediately because i know its good for wounds, but haven't applied the band-aids yet, should i cover the wounds wind band-aids??

Jura was shaking for maybe 15minutes. i got him home and i applied more Betadine on the wounds. he has stopped shaking but still definitely not normal. he's breathing heavy until now. (attack happened around 1hr ago)

how long should i wait before walking him outside again? and he hasn't eaten his post-walk meal yet. when should i give it to him?


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## colliepam (Jul 29, 2009)

Your poor little pup!Thats just the type of incident to make a dog turn fear aggressive,I am so sorry that happened.Im not surprised he didnt want to eat,he was still probably shaken up. Im sorry,I dont know how best to get him over this,but Id wait a bit and try to let him meet dogs that you know are friendly,to build his confidence up.Hopefully someone else will be along with more advice,good luck!


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

You really need to go to a vet. leave the vet to determine what you should do with the wounds. Bites always end up infected cause they do not look like any big deal. shallow bites are not always as shallow as you think. and also do not cover the wounds the most important thing is for the bites to drain of infection. covering them just locks it in. take him to the vet. doing it yourself is a BAD idea. I see hundreds of these cases every year. and what could be solved with simple medication might turn into a whole surgical procedure in a day because of the aggressive nature of dog bite infections. Someones rottweiler came in once cause it had 2 small shallow puncture wounds on his neck. and they were cleaning it everyday and dressing the wound. We saw the dog 2 weeks later and it looked like a little infected on the outside cause that is the nature of puncture wounds. but underneath the entire area was completely rotted away. 4 hours of surgery....a almost 9 inch long cut circling the neck area. and we removed about a pound or 2 of rotten flesh and skin. it was very bad. All caused by 2 tiny bite wounds that seemed insignificant. and then foot the bill to the owners.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I hope by the time you read this, you've already taken your dog to the vet.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

yes i've taken Jura to the vet.
he received 5 total stitches. 3 on his back, 1 on his front leg, and another around his ribs
he was given a shot. i think it was antibiotic
and vet gave me an amoxicilin that i have to give him for 5 days.
-attacker's owners agreed to pay the full bill(although there was quite a lengthy discussion about it. because they only wanted pay 50% at first. i put my foot down and said they have to pay the full bill. but i wasn't being a **** to them. i was conversing with them as calmly as i could.

he looks like he's okay now. obviously he's still in shock.. but one thing i noticed is he's not moving his hind legs at all. his hind legs seems like their dead or something. but he wasn't bit there. the dog that attacked him did lift him from the ground but as i recall, the fall wasn't that hard nor high.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Call your vet and tell them about the legs, see what they say. If he needs to go back in, make sure the other owners pay that bill, as well. If they won't, inform them that you will call the police. The fact that they've already admitted to fault and paid one bill will help.

I'm glad you stood your ground and made them pay the full bill, as they were completely at fault. I will never understand people who think it's okay to have known aggressive dogs loose like that. My pup was almost attacked in this same way when he was around your pup's age, but luckily I managed to grab the other dog before it got to mine (it was stupid for me to grab its collar, but it worked).


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## Wendy523 (Sep 16, 2012)

oh poor pup! I've been on both ends in this kind of situation. Once when walking my corgi/dachshund rescue (may she RIP) another dog that usually barked at us through the window when we went past actually busted through the screen and came out to attack. Fortunately my dog was able to fight back and there were no injuries. I didn't get too angry because my dog was also very territorial when dogs walked past our house (We had a trainer come work with us and we were always trying to help her, not sure what happened in her life before us). However a couple years later I was outside with my kids and I didn't realize the front door didn't latch shut when on of the kids went back inside so when another dog walked past our yard when she jumped on the door it opened and she darted out right past me and attacked our neighbors dog  Only a one bite wound by the time I was able to pull her off but she took him to the vet immediately and got some antibiotics, we of course paid the bill and apologized profusely. He recovered fully. I hope your pup recovers fully too!


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Keep in mind that your puppy was scared out of his mind and had a huge influx of stress hormones. Imagine if you had had a near-death experience. It can take a couple days for the stress hormones to dissipate and for your pup to go back to his usual self. That said, the hind legs thing is very concerning and I would be on the phone with vet for sure.

I'm glad you made these people pay the whole bill.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

is it possible that the hind legs issue is more psychological, than a physical issue?
he's trying to stand up but his hind legs isn't working at all.

the vet is closed now so i have to wait until tomorrow before i can call again


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Not to scare you ... But is there an emergency vet or vet hospital in your area? It may be broken or dislocated ... even internal injuries if he was shaken ... and if he cannot stand ... poor baby!  He needs medical attention quickly! asap!

Do you know someone with medical training ... even human?


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

What about you and your bites,are you ok? maybe you should make sure that dog has had all its shots.you may need some yourself.


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## mashlee08 (Feb 24, 2012)

Abbylynn said:


> Not to scare you ... But is there an emergency vet or vet hospital in your area? It may be broken or dislocated ... even internal injuries if he was shaken ... and if he cannot stand ... poor baby!  He needs medical attention quickly! asap!
> 
> Do you know someone with medical training ... even human?


This. 

Good on you for making them pay for the hole bill. Poor puppy. Hope you and puppy recover soon.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

i will go get a vaccine tomorrow morning for the bite i got. it's very small and very few blood came out even when i tried to push out some blood from it.. its on the tip of my pinky finger, and the tip of my pinky finger now is a little swollen

its already late here in the philippines.. and i dont know anyone who has any medical training.
it sounds like the hind legs issue being psychological is far fetched..
i wonder why the vet didn't notice this earlier on the clinic..
maybe they gave him an anesthesia for the stitches? while they were doing the stitches, i was on the attacker's owner's house discussing the vet bill to them..


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

ok, i read somewhere that since my pup is less than 4 months old(will turn 4 months in a week), it is highly unlikely that he has rabbies unless unless he was bitten by a rabid bat, raccoon, or other mammal.

but im still going to the hospital tomorrow to get a shot.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Dog bites are also puncture wounds that are easily infected, so they might want to give you some antibiotics as well.

It's strange the vet didn't notice the hind leg issue before. It's probably not psychological. Did you notice him using his hind legs after the attack at all?


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

hamandeggs said:


> Dog bites are also puncture wounds that are easily infected, so they might want to give you some antibiotics as well.
> 
> It's strange the vet didn't notice the hind leg issue before. It's probably not psychological. Did you notice him using his hind legs after the attack at all?


yes they gave him antibiotics in the clinic
and i find it strange as well that the vet didn't notice that at all... could it possibly an effect of the anesthesia? although im not sure if they gave him anesthesia before they did the stitches..

no.. after the attacker dropped him, he stayed on the ground shaking as me and the attacker's owner gave some first said on his wounds. after a few minutes i carried him home. sat him in my lap trying to calm him down.
then after he stopped shaking. i went to the attacker's owner's house to tell them i will be bringing Jura to the vet. they gave me money for the check-up. i thanked them but i told them that i will show them a receipt from the vet showing all the medical bills.


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm wondering how is hind legs are? Poor little guy. After reading so many of these stories on this forum, I always carry a stick. Wish I had a cattle prod! 

Sending good thoughts your way from Brazil!


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

titiaamor said:


> I'm wondering how is hind legs are? Poor little guy. After reading so many of these stories on this forum, I always carry a stick. Wish I had a cattle prod!
> 
> Sending good thoughts your way from Brazil!


really appreciate the good thoughts!!

still have the hind legs issue.. just a few minutes ago he tried to stand up again but only his front legs are working.. now he's laying down sleeping and waking up from time to time. moving his front legs while lying down..

im very worried.. earlier with the vet bills(it was quite expensive), it already felt like i've exhausted most of the attacker's owner's money. in fact they're having a garage sale that's why their gate was opened this time..
if Jura needs some spine surgery or something, i doubt i can pay for it even if me and the other dog's owner share the bill.


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## jbuck92 (Sep 28, 2011)

You should not have to "share the bill" in an instance like this. Mistake or not, their dog attacked your dog and medical costs were incurred. You have every right to demand the bills be covered. They should not have left the dog off leash with the gate open like that.

I hope your puppy recovers quickly!


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

jbuck92 said:


> You should not have to "share the bill" in an instance like this. Mistake or not, their dog attacked your dog and medical costs were incurred. You have every right to demand the bills be covered. They should not have left the dog off leash with the gate open like that.
> 
> I hope your puppy recovers quickly!


yes, they already did pay the whole medical fee earlier..
but my point is.. if Jura needs a spinal surgery of some sort. im pretty sure neither me nor the attacker's owners can afford that.


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

You need to get Jura back to the vet ASAP. I had a cat that was attacked by a coyote. She was picked up and shaken by the coyote and it broken her back. She could not move her back legs at all. Xrays showed the damage. She actually died at the vet's office. Please get your pup's back legs checked!!!


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

It's so awful that this happened! The vet really should have noticed the hind leg thing. Take Jura back as soon as you can.

Sending good thoughts your way. I hope he recovers well.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

There may be some swelling that is pinching a nerve, causing the back leg problem. I'm not sure if ice will help, but you could try. The swelling may be in a place where ice won't reduce it. The Vet may have a 24-hour phone number to call, or the pharmacist may be able to suggest something over the counter to help.

I don't know about legal rights in the Philippines, but the dog is your property and the owner of the other dog is negligent about allowing their dog to damage your property. If there is no money to pay the bills, the Vet may take time payments...


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

hanksimon said:


> There may be some swelling that is pinching a nerve, causing the back leg problem. I'm not sure if ice will help, but you could try. The swelling may be in a place where ice won't reduce it. The Vet may have a 24-hour phone number to call, or the pharmacist may be able to suggest something over the counter to help.
> 
> I don't know about legal rights in the Philippines, but the dog is your property and the owner of the other dog is negligent about allowing their dog to damage your property. If there is no money to pay the bills, the Vet may take time payments...


This is what I immediately thought when I seen there was a leg issue. Pinched nerves on his back where there was stitches causing hopefully, temporary 'paralysis'. Does the dog appear to be in pain when he tries to use his leg?. I'm not sure but I hope you can get him in ASAP. Please keep us posted and best wishes.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear of this. But truthfully, if the attacking dog's owner did not contain their dog properly, it's on them to pay for it. I would not care whether they could pay for it or not. I'm not sure how the law works in the Philippines, but here, they would likely be responsible, and if they cannot afford it, you can sue to garnish their wages. But since they were negligent, it's their responsibility to pay up. Don't let it bother you if you think they can't pay. Take care of your Jura - that's the most important thing! Best of luck!


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

thanks for all the best wishes everyone!
im about to go to bed... jura is definitely not in good shape right now. he still can't use his hind legs. he doesn't seem to be in pain when he tries to stand up. but he does seem frustrated that he cant use his hind legs.
there were a couple of times that i was holding him and he seemed to be in pain and i don't know why. he was looking at his back while making sounds like he's in pain..
really hope this is a nerve pinching thing caused by a swelling and not something permanent.
its very hard to take care of him right now. since he cant use his hind legs to stand up, he poops right where he's sitting/laying down, and some poop goes to the fur on his hind legs and butt..
i also noticed that since the attack, his poop became very different.. it became really dark in color, and very wet, like fluid.. 
when before, his poops were solid, just a little bit wet, and light brown in color.

i will definitely try to go back to their house again if it turns out jura needs some surgery of some sort and talk to them. but what will i do if they really can't produce money that big?
you have to remember i live in a 3rd world country.. things are a bit different from the western world.. i really do think that even if we combine our money, we won't have enough for a surgery and buy our family food at the same time. 
we're running on a tight budget..

i really pray the ice thing hanksimon suggested will help.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Have you taken him back to the vet? Or called the vet?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> jura is definitely not in good shape right now. he still can't use his hind legs. he doesn't seem to be in pain when he tries to stand up. but he does seem frustrated that he cant use his hind legs.
> there were a couple of times that i was holding him and he seemed to be in pain and i don't know why. he was looking at his back while making sounds like he's in pain..
> really hope this is a nerve pinching thing caused by a swelling and not something permanent.
> its very hard to take care of him right now. since he cant use his hind legs to stand up, he poops right where he's sitting/laying down, and some poop goes to the fur on his hind legs and butt..
> ...


Your pup NEEDS to go back to the vet IMMEDIATELY! The change in his poop could be an indication of internal bleeding, and add that to the fact that he can't use his legs, and this is NOT something that can wait. PLEASE get your pup back to a vet, don't let him continue to suffer.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

If there is no money to pay the bills, the Vet may take time payments... a little bit every month.

If it is nothing major, swelling might still take 2 - 3 days to go down. Only the Vet can tell...


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## jbuck92 (Sep 28, 2011)

hanksimon said:


> If there is no money to pay the bills, the Vet may take time payments... a little bit every month.
> 
> If it is nothing major, swelling might still take 2 - 3 days to go down. Only the Vet can tell...


And please do not wait 2-3 days to see it gets better. Like mentioned earlier, the changes in stool could be a sign of internal bleeding. Please get Jura looked at ASAP!


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Seriously....take your puppy to the vet...any vet. This is starting to become cruel because obviously there is something wrong with your puppy and you keep dragging your feet about getting him there. Take your puppy to a vet and deal with the money issue later.


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## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

Cut this person some slack. Most people in the Philippines just take the dogs to a different city and dump them, rather than vet them. There may not even be Evets there.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

oh man, still no vet visit?


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

BrittanyG said:


> Cut this person some slack. Most people in the Philippines just take the dogs to a different city and dump them, rather than vet them. There may not even be Evets there.





> i live in a 3rd world country


Yes indeed, definitely more slack please. We have some dogs in the states that live better than some 3rd world people.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

MrsBoats said:


> Seriously....take your puppy to the vet...any vet. This is starting to become cruel because obviously there is something wrong with your puppy and you keep dragging your feet about getting him there. Take your puppy to a vet and deal with the money issue later.


i wasn't dragging my feet..
by the time i posted that my puppy has hind legs issue. it was already night time in the philippines and i called my vet clinic. no answer. means they were closed already. i tried calling other nearby vet clinic..there was none other! only pet grooming etc.
and at my last post, it was 4am..
now it's 7am and im just gonna take shower then head off to a hospital to get myself a shot, and then i will visit the vet for a check up. hopefully they accept time payments.

again, some of you i think should realize, i don't live in a first world country.. im from a lower middle-class family. we do eat better meals than poor people. but our money is almost just always enough for our food at home. as sone of the posters said.. im pretty sure some of the dogs in western countries live better than me lol.
judging from their house. the owner of the attacking dog is also a lower middle-class family. i was actually already feeling very lucky that they payed for the vet bills yesterday, which was surprisingly expensive.
if you meet a filipino and tell them this story that happened in the philippines, im pretty sure they will be surprised to hear that the owner of the attacking dog actually payed. most filipinos would be really sorry about what happened, but won't pay even if you threaten to report them. most of them probably would choose to get their dog euthanized instead of paying the bill that could buy 1 or 2 weeks food supply for their family.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

I for one did not fully consider the time difference. I forgot you're on the other side of the world from me! I'm glad you're taking the pup in, I'm glad you are trying to provide the care he needs, and I really hope the vet says the leg issue will resolve itself.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

hamandeggs said:


> I for one did not fully consider the time difference. I forgot you're on the other side of the world from me! I'm glad you're taking the pup in, I'm glad you are trying to provide the care he needs, and I really hope the vet says the leg issue will resolve itself.


Agree fully, just do the best you can.


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

It is the same for us, here in Brazil. I completely understand your finances and the reimbursement of vet bills issue. I'm with you! FWIW, my neighbors dog got loose (well, she just roamed every day) and was hit by a motorcycle. Her hind legs don't work due to the spinal injury, but she drags herself around! Her life is OK.



Juramentado said:


> i wasn't dragging my feet..
> by the time i posted that my puppy has hind legs issue. it was already night time in the philippines and i called my vet clinic. no answer. means they were closed already. i tried calling other nearby vet clinic..there was none other! only pet grooming etc.
> and at my last post, it was 4am..
> now it's 7am and im just gonna take shower then head off to a hospital to get myself a shot, and then i will visit the vet for a check up. hopefully they accept time payments.
> ...


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## LadyBugAnBuddy (Jul 13, 2012)

Any news? Praying for your puppy!<3

~Erica~


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Your pup NEEDS to go back to the vet IMMEDIATELY! The change in his poop could be an indication of internal bleeding, and add that to the fact that he can't use his legs, and this is NOT something that can wait. PLEASE get your pup back to a vet, don't let him continue to suffer.


^This is exactly what I thought when you said darker poop. Internal bleeding higher up in the GI tract tends to show up more black and tar like and is a great cause for concern, much more so than seeing actual red blood which is more indicative of a lower GI tract bleed.

While yes I understand the difference in animal medical care in other countries, (two of my uncles in China own and love their dogs) some things you really can't just wait and see or take care of yourself. You've been saying some very concerning and serious sounding symptoms which is why everyone is getting nervous.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

guys, i really appreciate the support and prayers!

here's the latest update.. i know you will be disappointed/worried/nervous, but believe me when i say i am 10x more disappointed/worried/nervous. but im trying to remain calm and composed for my puppy and myself as well.

around 5pm i got back home from the hospital. i got there as early as 8:30am but because there were too many people lining up for dog/cat-bite consultations. i was able to receive my consultation at 12:20pm.
its is only one hospital here in manila that administers these kinds of shots. i asked why and what i got is that, some private hospitals have these shots. but they only have few stocks. so most of the time that people go there. it's unavailable.
in this hospital, it is known that the shots/consultations are cheap. so probably 90% of people who get bitten go here. and also the shots can be cheaper because you can find someone to share it with(that's what i did earlier and i saved some money).
anyway, doctor said i have to get 3 shots today, and he recommended that i get another shot(this one is really expensive). he said that expensive shot is optional, if i can observe my dog(he doesn't show any signs of rabbies, i.e. weakness, afraid of the wind, dies in 2 weeks etc). but as you know it.. my dog has his own issues. if he does exhibit some weird behavior, like extreme weakness and stuff in 2 weeks.. its impossible to determine whether he has his own rabbies, or he got rabbies from the attacking dog or he's just too injured(for now though... Jura is fine except for his hind legs still being limp. he just ate a whole bunch of dog food and drank a lot of water with amoxicillin. i made him come to the food instead of me giving him the food. and he started dragging himself towards the food using only his front legs.. really felt sorry for him to see him that way but i tried not to show it. i gave him a lot of praise after he ate lots of dog food and water).

i decided that i want to take that expensive shot.. because the doc said, it is only optional if i can observe the dog fully. but as i just explained, it's not possible..
i phoned the attacking dog's owner.. i explained to her my situation.. and even though it wasn't her dog that bit me. she agreed to give me money so i can get that expensive shot tomorrow.
she swore to me that its the last of their money and her family is short on budget now too, and only giving me that money because there's already a human life at stake..
they might be horrible dog owners, but they are decent human beings.. and remember, they didn't just ignore what happened yesterday. they came to me and helped me give jura first aid. and apologized a lot.

now to the disappointing conclusion..
there is no way now i can take jura to the vet, even for a check up or x-ray.
besides those 3 shots i got today and the expensive shot i will get tomorrow. i have to come back on october 4, 9 and then 25. to get more shots.

jura can't stand up so he poops right where he's sitting.. so the poop gets into his fur on the hind legs/butt and sometimes he drags his body around the living room, making the poop go everywhere on the floor.. lol
i have to clean the floor up and his fur everytime he poops and its a challenging job. like im taking care of a baby. but rest assured that i will not give up on jura even if he remains this way.. i love the dog

i might try to contact PAWS if they can help with jura's legs or anything


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I say this with a very heavy heart, if you can't get Jura treated, PLEASE put him out of his pain. I know you love your pup and I'm sure you don't want to see him suffer like this. Sometimes the best thing to do is the hardest...


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm am so, so sorry for what you're going through. This is an awful situation that nobody should have to go through. My warmest wishes go out to Jura.

You've been in contact with the dog's owners since, and say they're good people but horrible dog owners. This, while a problem in itself, it made MUCH more dangerous by the fact that their dog bit you. Although bites can happen incidentally while breaking up a fight, the bottom line is that the owners failed to keep their dangerous dog contained and as a result, he not only attacked another dog, but bit a person. This is a dangerous dog, and this dog will continue to be dangerous--especially in their hands. While the owners (and not the dog) are ultimately at fault, the dog needs to be dealt with. If they are unwilling (and it seems like they would be) to consult a professional behaviorist, if would be in the best interest of the neighborhood and anyone who may come into contact with the dog that you call animal control. 

The attacking dog needs to be removed, temperament tested, evaluated by a behaviorist and if necessary, PTS. 

Again, my deepest condolences and highest hopes to you and Jura. You will find a way through this.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> I say this with a very heavy heart, if you can't get Jura treated, PLEASE put him out of his pain. I know you love your pup and I'm sure you don't want to see him suffer like this. Sometimes the best thing to do is the hardest...


I agree with Carla. This dog needs to see a vet, if you can't do that, put him out of his pain. This is not fair to him. I'm trying very hard to be very nice, I won't be if I continue so...


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I suggest that you not give up on the Vet yet. Call the Vet and explain the situation, I'm sure they're used to people who have to choose food vs. pet. The Vet may be willing to look at the dog for free and make suggestions that you can do on your own, or may be able to work out another option that we haven't considered... In any case, I don't believe that it will cost anything to call ?


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

cshellenberger said:


> I say this with a very heavy heart, if you can't get Jura treated, PLEASE put him out of his pain. I know you love your pup and I'm sure you don't want to see him suffer like this. Sometimes the best thing to do is the hardest...


but it doesn't seem like he's in any pain right now.
he's acting all normal, except of course his limp legs..
im watching him now sitting, licking his hind legs.
i just showered him like 30minutes ago and seemed to enjoy it.
also i tried the ice theraphy on his back(still hoping its cuz of a pinched/swelling nerve) and he was enjoy it a lot, he was licking the ice on his back lol..
as long as i don't see/hear him in any pain in his situation, i won't give up on him that easily



titiaamor said:


> It is the same for us, here in Brazil. I completely understand your finances and the reimbursement of vet bills issue. I'm with you! FWIW, my neighbors dog got loose (well, she just roamed every day) and was hit by a motorcycle. Her hind legs don't work due to the spinal injury, but she drags herself around! Her life is OK.


this..
in the streets of manila, there's a lot of stray dogs. a lot of them have limp hind legs too, some just have one limp hind leg. but they try to continue living, and they're awesome because they survive in the streets. i think they deserve very much to live.
i also noticed that these stray dogs have better temperament than most pet dogs in here. in the two days i had jura with normal legs, during our walks.. we encounter stray dogs all the time and they approach jura slowly and try to smell him with no problem.

and i will aware you of this dog.. her name is Kabang. 








her face is like that because she saved a little kid from being ran over by a tricycle(this happened maybe 6-8 months ago). she's called a hero dog now. i think she was flewn to the US for facial reconstruction surgery or something.

and this pic was taken a month or two ago i think..
she had babies








imagine if people gave up on her easily. and yes, she's still alive.



hanksimon said:


> I suggest that you not give up on the Vet yet. Call the Vet and explain the situation, I'm sure they're used to people who have to choose food vs. pet. The Vet may be willing to look at the dog for free and make suggestions that you can do on your own, or may be able to work out another option that we haven't considered... In any case, I don't believe that it will cost anything to call ?


i might be able to borrow some money from a good frien of mine the day after tomorrow and get him checked. and i did call the vet earlier but he said the same things as you guys. i.e. it could be swelling in the spinal cord etc, broken bones..



beretw said:


> Again, my deepest condolences and highest hopes to you and Jura. You will find a way through this.


thank you! i really appreciate it. but you misunderstood.. jura is the one who bit me. after the attacking dog drop him, immediately went to jura to check his injuries but in shock, he bit me. after a few seconds he realized that its me and allowed me to check up on him



InkedMarie said:


> I agree with Carla. This dog needs to see a vet, if you can't do that, put him out of his pain. This is not fair to him. I'm trying very hard to be very nice, I won't be if I continue so...


bring it

i noticed all your post here are all about rushing me to get my dog to the vet. not even considering the situation(maybe not even reading my whole posts too). nor considering the time difference between your country and mine. on your second post, you seem like getting annoyed at me (oh man, no vet yet??), and didn't even consider that there are no available vets in my country at that time.

if you wanna say harsh words, just bring it. very easy for you to be angry at me i realize that. maybe if we switch positions and im the one with all the money to use whenever there's an emergency pet situation like this, i would probably say some things to you too for being in poverty. so i don't blame you(i already know what you gotta say. i.e. if you're poor dont have a pet, if you don't have savings for emergencies like this, don't have a pet etc etc)


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

Juramentado said:


> thank you! i really appreciate it. but you misunderstood.. jura is the one who bit me. after the attacking dog drop him, immediately went to jura to check his injuries but in shock, he bit me. after a few seconds he realized that its me and allowed me to check up on him


Whoops! Sorry about that, I was a lazy reader! That certainly changes things, eh?
You are in a very difficult position. I can understand where the other posters are coming from who are advising you to PTS. Frankly, I would have to agree. However, I can also understand that you don't want to give up yet. After all, it's only been been a couple days.

Monitor her for signs of progress, even the smallest ones. Save and save and keep looking for resources that will help you get her to the vet. Her legs weren't mangled from what I read in your story. It could be that the thrashing crossed some wires internally. You can't know for sure until you get her checked out.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

beretw said:


> Whoops! Sorry about that, I was a lazy reader! That certainly changes things, eh?
> You are in a very difficult position. I can understand where the other posters are coming from who are advising you to PTS. Frankly, I would have to agree. However, I can also understand that you don't want to give up yet. After all, it's only been been a couple days.
> 
> Monitor her for signs of progress, even the smallest ones. Save and save and keep looking for resources that will help you get her to the vet. Her legs weren't mangled from what I read in your story. It could be that the thrashing crossed some wires internally. You can't know for sure until you get her checked out.


yeah but if you read my second to last post(i understand if you didn't. it was too long lol)
the owner of the attacking dog agreed to pay for one of the expensive shots i have to get( i will get that tomorrow)

i decided i will try to pawn/sell some stuff tomorrow to get jura to the vet for check up
i will make my decision whether to put him down or no depending on what the vet says..


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> yeah but if you read my second to last post(i understand if you didn't. it was too long lol)
> the owner of the attacking dog agreed to pay for one of the expensive shots i have to get( i will get that tomorrow)
> 
> i decided i will try to pawn/sell some stuff tomorrow to get jura to the vet for check up
> i will make my decision whether to put him down or no depending on what the vet says..


I am sending prayers for the both of you. I am praying for a miracle ............


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

What a sad and tragic situation. It's very clear that you love Jura and are doing the best you can for him.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

What a sad situation. I'm so sorry for you and Jura. Sending good thoughts.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> i decided i will try to pawn/sell some stuff tomorrow to get jura to the vet for check up
> i will make my decision whether to put him down or no depending on what the vet says..


I think this is the best you could do for him, third world country or not. It sounds like you really care for the little guy and I hope the vet gives you good news.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Make sure you tell the vet about the dark poop, which could mean internal bleeding. That is an important detail. (It would probably be a good idea to bring along a fresh sample of the poop to the vet when you go.) Good luck, and I'm sorry you were put in such a bad situation.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

a little bit of possitive news

since this afternoon, his poop began returning to a more solid form and the color was getting lighter and lighter as each poop.
his last poop was just around 2:40am. it was solid like his normal poops before the attacks.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

What a horrible situation, both for you and Jura! It sounds like you love this pup and you're doing the very best you can for him. Good luck to you both!


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm so sorry this happened to Jura. It's a good thing you can take him to a vet soon (and have already done so). That was also very nice of the people to pay for the vet bills and your shots even though it's their responsibility to do so. I hope those people learned a lesson about keeping their aggressive dog on a leash next time. I hope everything works out for you and Jura; I'll pray for you both.


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## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

You should build him some wheels so he can still get around and learn potty training. Another option is to use a scarf, towel, or similar object, and put it under his belly so you can hold his back end up.

Keep us posted.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm so sorry something like this happened to you and your pup! I'm glad that you are okay - did the hospital give YOU antibiotics for your bites? Bites from dogs can get very infected very quickly, and the infections can be quite nasty because of the kinds of bacteria that normally live in a dog's mouth.

It sounds like his GI bleeding has stopped, which is good. Unfortunately, it sounds like his spine might be damaged. In my (limited) experience, pinched nerves tend to hurt, so if he's not showing any pain it seems more likely that its spine damage. To be honest, as long as he does not seem to be suffering, I wouldn't put him down - if he's in good health otherwise and clearly not in any pain. Young dogs (like kids) can adapt more easily to new situations than us adults, even something major like paralysis.... If he's paralyzed you could always look into getting him a doggy wheelchair in the future when he's done growing... but I'm not sure if it would be practical in where you are/a cost that you would be able to afford, etc. But that's only if he's in good health otherwise.

Anyway, I hope its just a pinched nerve or swelling that eventually resolves itself. Please let us know how your next vet visit goes!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Have you not even talked to the vet about the pup's paralysis and possible payment options?


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

just came home from the hospital.. got the shot called equirub or something(can't understand doctor's hand-writing and he looked high as a kite while we wer talking)
and sold my old tv, and electric fan. i got some money for a vet check up, and possibly an x-ray on jura.
his poop is definitely back to normal now, solid and light-brown.
i had to shower him again because we can't go to the doctor with his furs behind all dirty from poo. im just waiting a bit for his fur to dry and then we will head off to the vet.
i don't know if its just my imagination but i thought i saw some hint of movement on his left hind leg while i was showering him...



BrittanyG said:


> You should build him some wheels so he can still get around and learn potty training. Another option is to use a scarf, towel, or similar object, and put it under his belly so you can hold his back end up.
> 
> Keep us posted.


yep definitely, that's what i immediately thought about when i started noticing his hind legs are dead. if the vet says damage is permanent i will definitely get some materials and build him a homemade-cart of some sort.
in my imagination it would be like a small cart where i will put half of his body(back) with some wheels. so he can still walk/exercise using his front legs. i will strap his body there and a hole on the cart for his butt for when he poops.
well thats just what im thinking right now.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

okay im back from the vet with some good news.

it turns out that they(the vet and the trainee) noticed the leg problem the first time i brought Jura in there. and the trainee said that's why they gave me the antibiotic that i have to give jura for 5 days(mixed with his drink)
he said that the hind legs problem is because of the swelling. and that there's a chance that Jura's hind legs will be back in action.
he did recommend me to go back tomorrow morning to see the doctor(because only the trainee was present there). and that the doctor would probably have me buy one of the two tablets that jura needs to take. i forgot the names. i think one was septic and the other starts with a co.. anyway i will know tomorrow.

-good news is they didn't say anything about jura needing a surgery of some sort
-told me that Jura has a chance to talk again, just continue the take-home meds


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## mashlee08 (Feb 24, 2012)

Yay that is great news, sending you and your puppy healing thoughts!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Yay! I am so happy for both of you! Still sending good thoughts and prayers for a full and speedy recovery!


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Oh good news on Friday morning! I've been sending healing thoughts & prayers to both of you. Very strange....you'd think they would have let you know about the temporary paralysis after taking him in the first time....that's a pretty scary thing to have happen! Keep us updated on Jura's & your progress =)


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

That's wonderful news! You're doing a great job, esp. considering the conditions. Continuing to send good thoughts to you & Jura.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

really thanks everyone for the good thoughts and prayers!
most of my friends and family don't know anything about dogs, so you guys were the only ones that gave infos and stuff. so i can't express enough how i appreciate all of your prayers.



BellaPup said:


> Very strange....you'd think they would have let you know about the temporary paralysis after taking him in the first time....


yes.. but when i came back earlier this afternoon, the way the vet acted.. it seemed like he actually told me before i left their clinic the first time i went there.

it went like this..

*i opened the door to their clinic*

vet: sir, how's it going?
me: hi there, i came back because i noticed Jura's hind legs aren't working
vet: yes sir, that's why i gave you the antibiotic, because there's a swelling inside him from the attack. basically what you need to do is continue the medication that i gave you(he said something about fever too, i think he said jura had a fever)
me: oh okay, is there a chance my dog will walk normally again?
vet: yes sir, there is a chance. i also recommend you to come back tomorrow morning to see doc(maybe senior vet or something, i remember that "doc" was the one doing the stitches on Jura). and depending on his evaluation, he might prescribe another medication for Jura.
me: alright, i'll come back tomorrow morning then.
me: oh by the way.. the night after the attack, his poop was black and in liquid form..
vet: yes sir, it's because of the worms. you saw some white stuff on the black poo right? those are worms
me: yes there were some white stuff
vet: yes that's why we really need to deworm him. but not now. we have to wait until he's recovered.
me: alright, see you tomorrow


maybe he did tell me about the swelling the first time i went there, but it just went through right my other ear.. maybe because i was still in shock/worried that time, or its just that he spoke too many science/medical terms that got my mind all over the place.

on a side note.. 
im worried when Jura lays down to sleep. there are times that one of his hind legs are in an awkward position.. i fix his position whenever i see it. but there are times(specially when im sleeping) that i don't see him. hopefully he won't break his bones there or somthing


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Things are looking up, fingers crossed and good wishes for Jura.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

wvasko said:


> Things are looking up, fingers crossed and good wishes for Jura.


thank you
and also thankfully jura didn't lose his appetite. and today, he seemed to want to drink more water. that's good because his water is mixed with the medication.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> yep definitely, that's what i immediately thought about when i started noticing his hind legs are dead. if the vet says damage is permanent i will definitely get some materials and build him a homemade-cart of some sort.
> in my imagination it would be like a small cart where i will put half of his body(back) with some wheels. so he can still walk/exercise using his front legs. i will strap his body there and a hole on the cart for his butt for when he poops.
> well thats just what im thinking right now.


I'm glad you are working on getting the money to get Jura to the vet. It is essential that he has an evaluation of the problem. If you need to make him wheels (which I hope you do not), google dog wheelchair and you will see lots of good examples. As to the dog with no face. Poor thing, how does she eat? I cannot think that her life is happy or easy, despite being allowed to help overpopulate an area already with too many stray mixes.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm afraid she would have to be PTSed had I been in control. No dog or actually no person should be put through that kind of life. (unless they want to)


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

yeah me too. you guys already know i don't give up on animals easily but if im the owner of that dog, i would probably put her to sleep too

but the thin is, she became a hero dog and a local news sensation. so she's being taken care of now specially. i heard she was flewn to the US because some american specialist heard the story and he/she wants to give service to that dog for free.
i dont know much because i dont watch local news anymore lol i just know she's being treated like a royalty right now.. so i don't know if she's suffering or what.
and yeah i have no idea how she eats.

her babies will probably be treated like royalty too, or sold to wealthy families. or be auctioned at a high price...


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm so glad to hear this news! I've been thinking about you and Jura, and I hope more good news is in the future. Please do keep us updated.


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## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

You're doing a great job, keep it up. When people start selling stuff to care for their dog, that's dedication.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Great news about the swelling. When you get the chance, you might also ask about ice and water therapy (if you have access). For water therapy, you take the dog to a pool or a pond... or possibly a large bathtub, and simply help the dog walk around in the water. You may not be able to do it now, if the injuries are open wounds... but it won't hurt to ask.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

I am just curious the thread is so long I might have missed something. Did they shoot any xrays? The Xrays would show a lot. Also when the swelling goes away seeing a dog chiropractic might help get your little one feeling better


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

i went to the vet this morning. the senior vet is there. the one i talked to yesterday is also a vet but the senior vet is the one in charge. they were both present earlier.
the senior vet touched jura in places in his back. the only thing he said is that the only way we can know for sure if something is broken or its a pinched nerve is by taking an x-ray. but they said, when i first went there, there was definite swelling that's why they gave me the anti-biotics.
they don't have an x-ray there. i have to go to another place for the x-ray. i asked how much would the x-ray cost. they answered, and no i can't afford that anymore.
the doc did tell me about the dog wheelchair thing. its either i buy one or i make an improvised one.

i will start trying to make that soon. but i will also post an adoption ad. maybe some wealthy family that can afford x-rays and surgery will take pity on jura and want to adopt him. i think that's the best. but if not, jura will have to get used to a wheelchair

side note: my remaining money wasn't enough for x-rays, but it was enough for de-worming jura. so i just chosed to de-worm him today so those little bastards will stop stealing nutrition from him.
and they gave me a bottle called Proto-Lyte Syrup Formula. they said it will make jura stronger



hanksimon said:


> Great news about the swelling. When you get the chance, you might also ask about ice and water therapy (if you have access). For water therapy, you take the dog to a pool or a pond... or possibly a large bathtub, and simply help the dog walk around in the water. You may not be able to do it now, if the injuries are open wounds... but it won't hurt to ask.


i just called the clinic. they said i could try that too. jura's wounds seem to be healed now because they agreed to do the de-worming. they were looking at jura and his stitches at first to determine if its ok to de-worm him now, and they decided its ok.
they were actually a little surprised at how fast the wounds/stitches healed


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## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

I feel for you. I once gave up a kitty that broke his leg, the vet wanted $800 to set it. I was homeless, wasn't happening. He was taken in by some well off, older people. Bittersweet.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Awwwe .... If you need to give him up for financial reasons .... you are still doing him justice. In my opinion you are putting his needs before your own. In my heart you are doing the best you can.  I hope either way ... it all works out for him and yourself.


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## A.J. (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh how awful, sending best wishes and hoping everything turns out ok for you both


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

thank you everyone..

i will wait until october 10 before i post an adoption ad. hopefully, before october 10 a miracle will occur and he will somehow just walk with his hind legs again..

on a side note..
i just got accepted in a job in advertising, and could potentially earn a lot of money. so i will probably be able to buy Jura a good dog wheelchair, possibly a surgery as well
but my first paycheck won't come until around 50 days...


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## houndies (Feb 2, 2012)

What an epic journey. Make a sling for him and take hime out so he doesn't poo himself.
No animal likes to do that.
Also it gets him used to using his back legs. Wheels are a last resort. And keep him rested while the swelling goes down. Massage his legs and put him on his back and "bicycle" his legs. It all, what your vet is saying sounds very extreme he is young and don't give up on him!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Exercise, massage, and water therapy will help the miracle along.... if the swelling was the main issue, and not permanent injury.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Ask your vet if they think steroid shot and pills will help reduce swelling. If there is swelling pressing on the spinal cord, it will cause paralysis. Steroids are cheap.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

i went to the vet today to ask where i can buy dog diapers for jura
he told me the location but he said he dont recommend me using dog diapers on jura.. he said it will just cause more rashes on his back side because the area will be more closed with no air.
he added the dog diapers are used on dogs that aren't sick..

there might be some change of plans on the adoption thing. last night a filipino pet lover emailed me and interested in adopting jura. he said he can afford a dog wheelchair and surgery if needed. so i said yes with no hesitation. we are still making plans though. nothing is finalized yet.
he said he has 6 shihtzu and 1 dachshund.. so jura will have a lot of playmates there..

it might be better if the adoption will happen as soon as possible because i notice jura is slowly developing some separation anxiety.. even when i will just go to the bathroom or to the kitchen he cries and will only calm down and go back to sleep when i go back to my computer chair beside his bed.



spotted nikes said:


> Ask your vet if they think steroid shot and pills will help reduce swelling. If there is swelling pressing on the spinal cord, it will cause paralysis. Steroids are cheap.


that's the thing.. they want an x-ray first to be sure about everything. but i can't afford the x-ray right now.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

OMG!!!!! there are signs of movements. very small but there's definite some movements on his hind legs.

i noticed it while he was just sitting quietly. i thought his legs were like twitching a bit, but i thought it could be his upper body movement affecting it so i lifted him up to be sure and he was trying to stretch his hind legs a little bit and there are some small movements on his tail too.. very weak movements though.. he still cant stand up.. what could this mean? the vet is already closed crap...

edit: i called the vet directly. it was a downer though.. i asked what could the small weak movements mean, and he just said we still need an x-ray so we will know if its something really serious or just an ordinary sprain or something..


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

OMGoodness! Maybe the swelling is going down .... I am no vet or expert .... but still saying prayers for a full recovery! 

I hope this means he is going to get his legs back!?


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Abbylynn said:


> I hope this means he is going to get his legs back!?


i really hope that! that's why when i called the vet, i asked him what it means. but he didn't say anything about it. he just said we need to x-ray him to determine if its just an ordinary sprain or something serious.
such a downer lol but those small signs of movement definitely brightened up my mood.

im gonna try to sell my headset. its a good quality headset w/ mic so it will get me some money enough for an x-ray.
i use that headset w/ mic to skype with my girlfriend overseas. man shes gonna be sad lol but she can hear my voice again after a month. for the mean time she just have to be satisfied she can see me in webcam


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

Wonderful news about the legs! I hope you can figure out the shot!!!



Juramentado said:


> i really hope that! that's why when i called the vet, i asked him what it means. but he didn't say anything about it. he just said we need to x-ray him to determine if its just an ordinary sprain or something serious.
> such a downer lol but those small signs of movement definitely brightened up my mood.
> 
> im gonna try to sell my headset. its a good quality headset w/ mic so it will get me some money enough for an x-ray.
> i use that headset w/ mic to skype with my girlfriend overseas. man shes gonna be sad lol but she can hear my voice again after a month. for the mean time she just have to be satisfied she can see me in webcam


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well I'm probably gonna take a beating for this but you don't have the money to do anything if it is more serious, another x-ray right now is not help except make you worry/fret about something that (without money) you can't do anything about. I'm just sayin'....


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

wvasko said:


> Well I'm probably gonna take a beating for this but you don't have the money to do anything if it is more serious, another x-ray right now is not help except make you worry/fret about something that (without money) you can't do anything about. I'm just sayin'....


no worries. actually that's what im thinking about.. whether an x-ray is practical or not.. if im gonna sell my headset.. i will be able to get him an x-ray but if the problem is more serious i can't do anything more than that anymore..


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

If you figure out the problem and its something you can't fix at least you'll be able to tell a potential adopter what it is, though. Plus you'll know for sure whether he stands a chance of recovering on his own.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Daenerys said:


> If you figure out the problem and its something you can't fix at least you'll be able to tell a potential adopter what it is, though. Plus you'll know for sure whether he stands a chance of recovering on his own.


I think the reasoning here was that if she can't fix it, anyway, knowing if it stands a chance of getting better on it's own would be nice, but doesn't actually help the dog. If she can't do surgery or further treatment, its going to be a matter of time, either way. 

Potential adopter knowing would be useful, sort of, but their own vet would redo those x-rays, anyway. They always do.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

CptJack said:


> I think the reasoning here was that if she can't fix it, anyway, knowing if it stands a chance of getting better on it's own would be nice, but doesn't actually help the dog. If she can't do surgery or further treatment, its going to be a matter of time, either way.
> 
> Potential adopter knowing would be useful, sort of, but their own vet would redo those x-rays, anyway. They always do.


Exactly the possible adopter already knows there is a problem. Suppose time heals all then x-ray money is wasted and with some people wasting money is definitely not proper.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

my vet called again and apologized lol he said sorry he couldn't talk well earlier because he was entertaining a customer.
i like my vet he's very kind

anyway, he told me that the antibiotics could've helped a lot..
and i forgot to say this but ever since jura couldn't use his hind legs, he couldn't pee well. on the first days, his pees were just little continue drops from his penis. but since earlier this morning i noticed too that even his peeing has improved. the pee still continuously come out of his penis but at least now, its in good amounts. i was really worried his bladder would become full. but not that's not an issue anymore.
anyway i guess that's also one contributing factor besides the slight movements on jura's legs that led my vet to say that there's definitely improvement in jura's condition.
he said if i dont have money for an x-ray right now. at least buy more anti-biotics and continue his medication.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> my vet called again and apologized lol he said sorry he couldn't talk well earlier because he was entertaining a customer.
> i like my vet he's very kind
> 
> anyway, he told me that the antibiotics could've helped a lot..
> ...


I understand that antibiotics will help with any bite wounds, but I'm not getting how antibiotics are going to help swelling from a traumatic injury


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## mashlee08 (Feb 24, 2012)

Pawzk9 said:


> I understand that antibiotics will help with any bite wounds, but I'm not getting how antibiotics are going to help swelling from a traumatic injury


I think he might mean anti inflammatories. Cos I was thinking the same too.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Pawzk9 said:


> I understand that antibiotics will help with any bite wounds, but I'm not getting how antibiotics are going to help swelling from a traumatic injury





mashlee08 said:


> I think he might mean anti inflammatories. Cos I was thinking the same too.


hm.. well, i dont know..
what he gave me before was a powdered form of Amoxicillin. i researched about it, and yeah its a form of antibiotics..
and that's what he wants me to buy again tomorrow


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Really try to press him about reasons NOT to give a steroid shot and pills. There is no medical reason not to provide it, that I can think of. An Xray shouldn't be needed first. If something is broken, it will reduce pain. It won't fix the problem, but won't cause more harm. If nothing is broken, and it is just swelling, it will reduce the swelling, and ease the compression on the spinal cord. In most cases of traumatic spinal injury, steroids are the first thing they give, and they try to do it soon after the injury, to reduce the swelling so you don't end up with permanent spinal cord damage. The benefits of giving steroids, even without an Xray, outweigh any drawbacks to it. Steroids have a few side effects in this type of case, but none that should cause any hesitation in prescribing them for a dog with possible spinal swelling.

If Need be, print this out, and take it to him to discuss. I understand that getting an X ray would be ideal, since if something is broken, then you could schedule surgery if needed/desired, but there is no reason to not do steroids to reduce the swelling unless the dog had other medical issues. My only concern now, would be the time that has been lost since the injury occured. Normally you try to give steroids within 8 hrs of the injury.

Discuss with the vet about keeping your dog crated/contained to reduce movement. For spinal cord injuries, you normally want them kept still..


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## Vinat (Jun 22, 2009)

i dont mean to be cruel or a party pooper, but perhaps the dog should be put to sleep. the owner simply cannot afford to care for the animal's injuries and is already considering adopting it out to someone else, which is very unlikely to happen. if the dog is suffering then i think it should be put down. 

and while the people who own the dog who attacked jura are very wrong for not having that dog contained on a leash, you said yourself that you walked by that house 2 days in a row and noticed that dog being aggressive toward jura, so some blame is to be placed on you. you should have picked a different way to walk, and when you saw those gates open, you should have picked up jura and walked away immediately.

again, sorry to be cruel, but this thread is heart breaking, and it doesnt seem to me that jura's condition is going to improve to what it should be. it's a tragedy. these things happen sometimes. i had a puppy who i had to put to sleep because he broke his hips playing and they were un-repairable. you live and you learn and you be more careful next time. 

this whole thread is reminding me of my friend whose 18 year old dog was clearly dying, yet she, living on disability, was going to vet after vet, seeing specialists, getting tests done, going into thousands of dollars of debt trying to keep the dog alive when he had no quality of life whatsoever. 

please take a serious look from the dog's perspective and ask yourself if this is the kind of life you would want to live? sick, half paralyzed, in a 3rd world country where most people do not consider dogs as part of the family. you have no control over what happens to that dog after it leaves your custody, and jura's next owner may not be so caring or willing to sacrifice and spend so much.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Vinat said:


> i dont mean to be cruel or a party pooper, but perhaps the dog should be put to sleep. the owner simply cannot afford to care for the animal's injuries and is already considering adopting it out to someone else, which is very unlikely to happen. if the dog is suffering then i think it should be put down.
> 
> and while the people who own the dog who attacked jura are very wrong for not having that dog contained on a leash, you said yourself that you walked by that house 2 days in a row and noticed that dog being aggressive toward jura, so some blame is to be placed on you. you should have picked a different way to walk, and when you saw those gates open, you should have picked up jura and walked away immediately.
> 
> ...


Our definitions of suffering differ. A dog without use of it's hindlegs is not necessarily a dog who is 'suffering'. 

These exist for a reason. The dog is not sick. There has been no indication that the dog is in pain.

As for the owner/op - they are in a third world country, doing the best they can. It is not a purely financial situation. It is another WORLD over there. This dog IS being cared for, unlike the others, and really fairly well. She said she would let it go only if someone else was prepared to offer to pay for expensive treatment she could not - that doesn't make her stupid, or mean the dog is going to end up treated badly. 

Not trying to be cruel - just sayin', as nicely as I know how: 
You should probably look at your privilege and stop anthropomorphizing the dog before making those kind of sweeping generalizations and judgements.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Vinat said:


> i dont mean to be cruel or a party pooper, but perhaps the dog should be put to sleep. the owner simply cannot afford to care for the animal's injuries and is already considering adopting it out to someone else, which is very unlikely to happen. if the dog is suffering then i think it should be put down.
> 
> and while the people who own the dog who attacked jura are very wrong for not having that dog contained on a leash, you said yourself that you walked by that house 2 days in a row and noticed that dog being aggressive toward jura, so some blame is to be placed on you. you should have picked a different way to walk, and when you saw those gates open, you should have picked up jura and walked away immediately.
> 
> ...


i think you haven't read the whole thread and i can't blame you for that. it's been going on for too long and i tend to type long as well.
and yes i do regret and blame myself as well for going through that path even though i already saw the gate was opened. i have no qualms in taking blames lol but i think its wrong if the whole blame is to be put on me.
they were having a garage sale, children come in there, and it was a narrow alley way. people pass by there all the time. they should've put the dog on a leash if their gate is opened.

and to answer your question..
if i become half-paralyzed in a 3rd world country. yes i would want to continue to live. i've seen so many people in wheelchairs living their life happy with their family's support. we might not be rich but we have strong family values. and im sure my family will support me if my legs doesn't work anymore.
i dont mean to be cruel but i think you're one weak human being if you choose suicide or to be euthanized if you become half-paralyzed from an accident

again, as long as i don't see my dog being in-pain or suffering.. i won't put him to sleep. 
if i see/feel that he is suffering or enduring pain, trust me.. i would be the first one to think of putting him to sleep


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## Vinat (Jun 22, 2009)

those dog wheel chairs do exist, but they are very expensive -- more expensive than a lot of families in america can afford -- myself being one of them. so my apologies for knowing a bit too much about 3rd world countries to know that many rural areas don't have pavement or plumbing, let alone wheelchairs for injured dogs. 

and look, i'm not trying to pick a fight or offend anyone, i'm just trying to put out there the not so popular option that is something worth considering.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

I honestly don't get why people are so quick to jump to euthanasia as an option. Yes it was already mentioned already a lot earlier a few pages back.

The OP is doing a commendable job given the circumstances. Pawning/selling possessions to get money for what medical bills he can. Looking and finding rehoming options with people that can afford the expenses.

I'm not sure why you'd really even bring up euthanasia now.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Vinat said:


> those dog wheel chairs do exist, but they are very expensive -- more expensive than a lot of families in america can afford -- myself being one of them. so my apologies for knowing a bit too much about 3rd world countries to know that many rural areas don't have pavement or plumbing, let alone wheelchairs for injured dogs.
> 
> and look, i'm not trying to pick a fight or offend anyone, i'm just trying to put out there the not so popular option that is something worth considering.


pretty sure i know more about 3rd world countries than you

i live in one bro

and just because i live in a 3rd world country doesn't mean i live in a rural area and like the poor people you've seen in tv or documentaries. i do live in a decent house. have a car. studied in one of the best high schools and college in manila.
i was just unemployed when this situation happened(i just graduated from college). and i didn't save money for situations like this. never expected this to happen.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Vinat said:


> those dog wheel chairs do exist, but they are very expensive -- more expensive than a lot of families in america can afford -- myself being one of them. so my apologies for knowing a bit too much about 3rd world countries to know that many rural areas don't have pavement or plumbing, let alone wheelchairs for injured dogs.
> 
> and look, i'm not trying to pick a fight or offend anyone, i'm just trying to put out there the not so popular option that is something worth considering.


Dude, those official things are expensive. If you'd read the thread you would see that she has plans to make one - and that would cost me about 2 hours and 15.00, assuming I had to buy the toy to take apart for the wheels, even in America. There are plans all over the place, online. OP obviously has internet, yes?

I'm not trying to fight, either, but no - I don't think a dog that isn't in pain needs to be euthanized. Especially not since it is *getting medical care*. 



zhaor said:


> I honestly don't get why people are so quick to jump to euthanasia as an option. Yes it was already mentioned already a lot earlier a few pages back.
> 
> The OP is doing a commendable job given the circumstances. Pawning/selling possessions to get money for what medical bills he can. Looking and finding rehoming options with people that can afford the expenses.
> 
> I'm not sure why you'd really even bring up euthanasia now.


Pretty much all of this.


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## Vinat (Jun 22, 2009)

like i said, i didnt mean to offend anybody, so please, stop jumping down my throat for mentioning an option that -- fact of the matter, no matter how much anybody dislikes it -- is an option. 

i guess i'm just too pessimistic. i tend to look at things from a practical standpoint. my sincerest apologies. i wont post again.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

I just read through this entire thread, and I thank you for spending your money on Jura's care. Even here in the USA people don't want to pay for vet bills, even if it's a small amount... and they have the resources that you don't. You're doing an exceptional job taking care of Jura and getting him the care he needs, most people would've just thrown him out. 

I don't think people realize that it is nearly taboo to take a dog to a vet and pay for care in a 3rd world country.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Vinat said:


> like i said, i didnt mean to offend anybody, so please, stop jumping down my throat for mentioning an option that -- fact of the matter, no matter how much anybody dislikes it -- is an option.
> 
> i guess i'm just too pessimistic. i tend to look at things from a practical standpoint. my sincerest apologies. i wont post again.


apology accepted.

but i dont think euthanasia is "practical" right now. i think the right term is that, it will be the "easy way out".
and to be honest, there a few times i was tempted to take that easy way out. because if there's anyone who's suffering, it's me. cleaning his pee, poop from where he sits every few hours, cleaning the poop/pee that got to his fur, tail, washing him everyday, washing the area where he always stay, etc(not to mention the emotional/mental stress of worrying about where to get money next if jura needs more medications and stuff) its like im a caregiver taking care of a baby or an old person who cant take care of himself anymore. if you know me in person, you'd never expect i would do these things because im a lazy, laid back person.
but people in this thread kept me strong and i really thank them for that. whatever happens to jura right now, i will appreciate all the good thoughts posters from the other side of the world sent to me and jura.
my decision remains the same. i will not put jura to sleep unless i see him in pain or suffering.



spotted nikes said:


> If Need be, print this out, and take it to him to discuss. I understand that getting an X ray would be ideal, since if something is broken, then you could schedule surgery if needed/desired, but there is no reason to not do steroids to reduce the swelling unless the dog had other medical issues. My only concern now, would be the time that has been lost since the injury occured. Normally you try to give steroids within 8 hrs of the injury.


thanks! i just called my vet and asked about the steroid thing. he told me that's a good idea but he said they need to do some testing first and stuff, so it will be more expensive.. i doubt i can afford that..


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Juramentado said:


> .
> 
> 
> thanks! i just called my vet and asked about the steroid thing. he told me that's a good idea but he said they need to do some testing first and stuff, so it will be more expensive.. i doubt i can afford that..


 I'm sorry to keep pressing the issue, but what kind of testing is he saying would need to be done? In a 4 month old dog, good blood values and a healthy liver is a pretty safe bet. When you weigh the benefits of steroids on a dog with possible spinal swelling, but no x rays or bloodwork, vs no steroids, it seems to weigh heavily in favor of steroids. Does the vet understand the financial limitations? I almost feel like he is trying to either milk you for more money or just doesn't want to treat because he doesn't foresee a good chance of the dog pulling through. 
I apologize if it seems like I am harping on this, but without xrays/surgery, steroids would really seem to be beneficial to at least reduce the swelling. And it is time based...if swelling persists, permanent damage to the spinal cord can result. Is there any other vet you could talk to for a 2nd opinion?
You might also ask him about IV DMSO. It's often used in horses for severe head/spine injuries to reduce swelling. Its very cheap.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Vinat said:


> like i said, i didnt mean to offend anybody, so please, stop jumping down my throat for mentioning an option that -- fact of the matter, no matter how much anybody dislikes it -- is an option.
> 
> i guess i'm just too pessimistic. i tend to look at things from a practical standpoint. my sincerest apologies. i wont post again.


I'm not gonna knock this choice, truth be told many would PTS the dog. A 4 month old pup who would face life with 2 legs and also living in 3rd world country is (in my opinion) a very tough life. Of course I am a glass half full person myself.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm not saying the dog should be put down but I'm wondering how long he's going to go on as he is. I'm gathering from reading everything that the OP doesn't have the money to care for this dog. Either put him down or find someone to adopt him, if you can. He needs help NOW.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

this morning, almost right after the discussion about putting him to sleep has ended. jura started vomiting. i picked him up and saw some blood dripping down his penis..
i cleaned it but it kept on dripping.. so i put him down and taught deeply. after a while i called my vet for euthanasia. he said they don't have it.

i observed jura more.. i noticed he got weaker and weaker. i tried to give him food but he didn't want it at all. even though it was already past his feeding time.
i thought yea this is the time to put him down. i called other vet clinics and learned that i also cant afford putting him asleep. in my panic, i even called my friends and asked if they have a gun so i can end my companion's suffering already.
and then one of my friends told me to call PAWS philippines. i did. and they told me to bring the dog there.

when i got there, the doctor asked what happened. i told him everything, from the attack to whats happening now. he checked on jura. he said the damage is permanent. and there is no surgery like that for dogs available in the philippines. he also said that an x-ray would be useless by now.

he proceeded on checking jura. he gently pressed jura's bladder to stimulate peeing. a lot of dark blood came out. i asked why did this happen. he said its because his bladder became too full.
he then got a thin tube and entered it in jura's penis, and sucked it using that thing they use in injections. i asked if the color of his pee will become normal again eventually. he said yes. i just always need to stimulate his bladder so he can pee. i can't let jura's bladder become too full like that again.

i actually asked about euthanasia too.. he said that it actually came to his mind as well. but as he sees jura right now.. he said that we can still do more for him. he said he doesn't want me to have the feeling that i didn't try everything i have first before i put my dog to sleep..
he did say though, that if by friday, his condition doesn't get any better(he's still weak, no appetite etc). we will put him to sleep.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Awwwe .... I am so sorry it is going this way.

I just had to make that decision with my 5 year old Heart Dog. I had all that could be done first ... I felt that giving him a fighting chance was best ... as I would have peace knowing that I did all I humanly could. There would never be any question in my mind .... There was no cure for my guy ... he was going to die ... so I allowed him to pass peacefully. I owed him that much and I loved him this much.

Whatever happens .... I will still say prayers for you both. It is a very tough decision ...... but I will not allow a dog to suffer.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I am so sorry.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

i also told him about the weak movements i noticed on his hind legs last night.. but he said those movements are involuntary..

jura vomited 3 times more after we came home. he drank water but he just puked it out again.. i offered him food but he's not interested in it..

just a few minutes ago though i saw him wag his tail like what he does when he was normal. he pooed, after after he pooed the wagging stopped.. hm..
i dont know but it seems like the movements from his hind legs, specially on his tail are much better now than last night..

if there's a miracle.. i hope it will arrive before i go back to PAWS on friday to have him euthanized..


edit: oh and about the steroids thing.. i asked the PAWS doctor about it too. he said that steroids would've helped if it was done within 3-4 days after the attack.. by now it would be useless. he did say more stuff to explain it, but it was all science terms that i cant remember


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I don't want to give you false hope, but ask the Vet about the possibility that the swelling which could be causing the paralysis, is also causing the bladder problems - the pup can't feel when he needs to pee. So, when the swelling goes down, walking and peeing will get better ?


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> I don't want to give you false hope, but ask the Vet about the possibility that the swelling which could be causing the paralysis, is also causing the bladder problems - the pup can't feel when he needs to pee. So, when the swelling goes down, walking and peeing will get better ?


that's the first thing he said.. that because of the hit he took on his spinal cord. there was/or still is a swelling that's blocking the nerve signals going to his legs.
but then he said the damage is permanent. his hind legs will remain like that.. he didn't talk about the swelling going down or anything. he just said that the jura's paralysis is permanent..

i asked if a surgery could give him a chance to walk. he didn't say yes or no. he just said that a surgery that complicated doesn't exist here in the philippines..


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm very sorry to hear that. ... I hope the Vet is wrong.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

spotted nikes said:


> I'm sorry to keep pressing the issue, but what kind of testing is he saying would need to be done? In a 4 month old dog, good blood values and a healthy liver is a pretty safe bet. When you weigh the benefits of steroids on a dog with possible spinal swelling, but no x rays or bloodwork, vs no steroids, it seems to weigh heavily in favor of steroids. Does the vet understand the financial limitations? I almost feel like he is trying to either milk you for more money or just doesn't want to treat because he doesn't foresee a good chance of the dog pulling through.
> I apologize if it seems like I am harping on this, but without xrays/surgery, steroids would really seem to be beneficial to at least reduce the swelling. And it is time based...if swelling persists, permanent damage to the spinal cord can result. Is there any other vet you could talk to for a 2nd opinion?
> You might also ask him about IV DMSO. It's often used in horses for severe head/spine injuries to reduce swelling. Its very cheap.


This^^ Antibiotics aren't going to do anything for a damaged spine. A good vet would have probably started steroids as soon as they saw you had a problem (when you first brought him in) As to the xray - I am sure you want the best you can do for Jura. An xray would tell you much about his chances are of recovery. If surgery is an option, and you can't afford it, perhaps you could find a compassionate, well off person who could adopt and do the surgery. If the cord is too damaged for that, you'll know it, and he is just as well-off with you. Have you talked with the vet about financing options? I know some vets will take payments. I don't know if in your country they have plans to finance vet care. But it's certainly worth asking bout.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> that's the first thing he said.. that because of the hit he took on his spinal cord. there was/or still is a swelling that's blocking the nerve signals going to his legs.
> but then he said the damage is permanent. his hind legs will remain like that.. he didn't talk about the swelling going down or anything. he just said that the jura's paralysis is permanent..
> 
> ..


Without an xray, how does he know?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> i also told him about the weak movements i noticed on his hind legs last night.. but he said those movements are involuntary..
> 
> jura vomited 3 times more after we came home. he drank water but he just puked it out again.. i offered him food but he's not interested in it..
> 
> ...


If he noticed the problem with the legs when you brought him in after the attack, why did he not do the steroids then? As to euthanizing him, it's certainly your call and I don't think a rational person would blame you for making that hard choice. But if he is wagging his tail and has some leg movement, I'd give it time. It seems your vet has been wrong on several things, and he might be wrong about this as well. I could be mistaken, but unless the back is noticeably broken, I don't think he can tell you with absolute certainty how permanent the injury is without xrays. The steroids would still help with the swelling at this point, but not reverse damage done by the swelling.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> If he noticed the problem with the legs when you brought him in after the attack, why did he not do the steroids then? As to euthanizing him, it's certainly your call and I don't think a rational person would blame you for making that hard choice. But if he is wagging his tail and has some leg movement, I'd give it time. It seems your vet has been wrong on several things, and he might be wrong about this as well. I could be mistaken, but unless the back is noticeably broken, I don't think he can tell you with absolute certainty how permanent the injury is without xrays. The steroids would still help with the swelling at this point, but not reverse damage done by the swelling.


Pawz, I'm pretty sure this is a different vet that the OP took his pup to for a second opinion.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

CptJack said:


> Our definitions of suffering differ. A dog without use of it's hindlegs is not necessarily a dog who is 'suffering'.
> 
> These exist for a reason. The dog is not sick. There has been no indication that the dog is in pain.
> 
> ...


Here here.

(Or is it Hear Hear... I've never been sure.)

I'm glad to hear that Jura seems to be improving.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Pawz, I'm pretty sure this is a different vet that the OP took his pup to for a second opinion.


It is? I have my own opinions about this whole thread but you're the super mod so i'll just shut up.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Pawz, I'm pretty sure this is a different vet that the OP took his pup to for a second opinion.


So, I'm still left wondering . . . unless the back is obviously broken, without an xray, how does the vet diagnose that the paralysis is permanent? I've seen dogs who were paralyzed recover a considerable amount of function with time and therapy. The dog can eliminate voluntarily. He can move his tail. He is moving his legs a little. Unless it is just more than the poster can do to care for the pup, I have to think giving him more time would be a good idea instead of euthanizing immediately.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> It is? I have my own opinions about this whole thread but you're the super mod so i'll just shut up.


Kuma'sMom reads the thread carefully and not just passing judgement. that's why he's correct. it was a different vet. i took him to PAWS(Philippine Animal Welfare Society) people there including the doctor are volunteers. their service is free. that was my last resort since i didn't have any money even for a vet check up anymore.

like i told you before, just bring it. 
if you have your own opinions about this thread, just throw em at me.
it wont change the fact that i did the best that i could with the little money i had.



Pawzk9 said:


> So, I'm still left wondering . . . unless the back is obviously broken, without an xray, how does the vet diagnose that the paralysis is permanent? I've seen dogs who were paralyzed recover a considerable amount of function with time and therapy. The dog can eliminate voluntarily. He can move his tail. He is moving his legs a little. Unless it is just more than the poster can do to care for the pup, I have to think giving him more time would be a good idea instead of euthanizing immediately.


i don't know why and how he diagnosed the damage as permanent. but that's what he said and he's the doctor, not me, so i just listened to what he said.

whether steroids could've helped or not. i couldn't afford it.
whether x-rays could've helped or not. i couldn't afford it.




i woke up this morning and jura has passed away. hopefully he didn't go with pain or anything. before i went to bed last night, he was just sleeping as well.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> i woke up this morning and jura has passed away. hopefully he didn't go with pain or anything. before i went to bed last night, he was just sleeping as well.


I'm so sorry to hear this.


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## bmilla35 (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh no. I followed this thread the whole way, and this is truly sad. Please be rest assured that you did all you could to provide for Jura and give her life. I wish more owners could be as dedicated as you...

Again, so sorry for your loss.


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about that. I was really hoping he would pull through. I know you did what you could for him and that counts for a lot. Many people wouldn't have tried as hard as you did.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

thank you everyone who wished me and jura good thoughts and prayed for us. jura probably wouldn't have lasted as long as he did without those prayers.

now just trying to find a spot to bury him.. hm.. this is a problem in a city. almost all spots are cemented.


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## mashlee08 (Feb 24, 2012)

RIP little Jura. I hope your trip over the rainbow bridge was a peaceful one. 

Sorry for your loss.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm really sorry to hear about that. I was really hoping for a miracle for you two.

You should tell your neighbours the outcome, knowing the damage their dog has done might make them more inclined to keep it under control.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm so very sorry.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

So very sorry to hear this. I was so hoping for a miracle.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I am so very sorry. You did what you could ....

Run free at The Rainbow Bridge Jura!


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

Oh, gosh. God bless.



Juramentado said:


> Kuma'sMom reads the thread carefully and not just passing judgement. that's why he's correct. it was a different vet. i took him to PAWS(Philippine Animal Welfare Society) people there including the doctor are volunteers. their service is free. that was my last resort since i didn't have any money even for a vet check up anymore.
> 
> like i told you before, just bring it.
> if you have your own opinions about this thread, just throw em at me.
> ...


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm so sorry for your loss. I was really pulling for him! =( 
You did what you could. The best vets and all the $$ in the world may not even have been able to save him. 
RIP Jura baby.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

i was able to bury him.. but after a few hours, my mom arrived and told me to get jura's body.. put it in a plastic and inside a box then put ice..
because she wants to take the body to a center to be tested if he had rabies(remember i was bitten by him)

so i digged again, washed his dead body and try to fit him inside the box.. that was the worst part for me..
no dog lover should experience what i just did..


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> whether steroids could've helped or not. i couldn't afford it.
> whether x-rays could've helped or not. i couldn't afford it.
> 
> 
> i woke up this morning and jura has passed away. hopefully he didn't go with pain or anything. before i went to bed last night, he was just sleeping as well.


Poor puppy. I am so sorry you lost him, and have no doubt you did as much as you felt you could do. A small, unsolicited suggestion. If you decide to get another dog, please wait until you are financially able to meet his needs and save enough for emergencies, or get pet insurance (if it is offered where you live). The fact is, you chose to get a puppy when you were out of work and broke. Prednisone (the steroid often used for swelling/inflammation is a relatively cheap drug and xrays are not that expensive. They might have helped, or the result may have been the same even with better vet care. And I understand when people can't spend thousands on a pet. But it's sad when a pup's life hangs in the balance because even the most basic care is unaffordable.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Pawzk9 said:


> Poor puppy. I am sorry you lost him, and have no doubt you did as much as you felt you could do. A small, unsolicited suggestion. If you decide to get another dog, please wait until you are financially able to meet his needs and save enough for emergencies, or get pet insurance (if it is offered where you live). The fact is, you chose to get a puppy when you were out of work and broke. Prednisone (the steroid often used for swelling/inflammation is a relatively cheap drug and xrays are not that expensive. They might have helped, or the result may have been the same even with better vet care. And I understand when people can't spend thousands on a pet. But it's sad when a pup's life hangs in the balance because even the most basic care is unaffordable.


im not sure how broke you thought i am..
i wouldn't get a puppy if i know i couldn't provide to his needs. food, water, shelter, exercise.
i give him dog food 100% of the time(most people in a 3rd world country won't feed their dog, dog foods)
i had enough to provide for his basic needs.
i just didn't have enough for an emergency like that where expensive stuff are suddenly needed.
also, i was bitten by jura. the owner of the attacking dog agreed to pay for the most expensive shot i had to get. but i had to get more than just one shot. i came back there this monday, and will go back again on friday to get more shots. and again on october 25, and april next year.
those shots costs a lot of money. and i dont know how you will react to this, but i feel my health is more important that jura's

x-rays are not expensive.. maybe where you live yes.. or for you who live in a better country and have a better job.
but i can definitely tell you i was surprised when the vet told me the cost of x-ray.
i deeply apologize to anyone that got disappointed that i didn't afford an x-ray on him. but believe me when i say im 10x more disappointed than any of you.

i do feel that i can take care of a dog. dog food and water are no problem. but if someday i'll get a puppy. i might wait for him to grow into a decent size before taking him outside so he/she can at least defend himself/herself or at least won't look like a toy inside another dog's mouth.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I would not consider X-rays and Prednisone "basic care". Accidents happen and I think she did the best she could for the puppy even selling some of her things to pay the Vet. What may be considered "not expensive" in the USA or Canada is probably a lot where she lives. I am really sorry that the outcome was not better and quite likely even if she could have afforded more Vet care the outcome would have been the same. At lease she gave the puppy a chance.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> i do feel that i can take care of a dog. dog food and water are no problem. but if someday i'll get a puppy. i might wait for him to grow into a decent size before taking him outside so he/she can at least defend himself/herself or at least won't look like a toy inside another dog's mouth.


As you've found out the hard way, emergencies can happen with dogs, and being able to provide appropriate medical care IS a basic need. I think you did what you could, but it's just something to consider when you are ready to get another dog. Not just for you - for anyone considering getting a dog. If Jura tests as clear of rabies, why would you need to continue the shots?


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> i do feel that i can take care of a dog. dog food and water are no problem. but if someday i'll get a puppy. i might wait for him to grow into a decent size before taking him outside so he/she can at least defend himself/herself or at least won't look like a toy inside another dog's mouth.


Well there are many dogs in our country that would like the "being fed every day" program. You have learned much in the last week or so, it may/should help you with a new dog. 

There was a thread a while back about homeless people having dogs and I think the general consensus was, while it might not be the perfect life it was doable. 

Rest in peace little Jura


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Pawzk9 said:


> As you've found out the hard way, emergencies can happen with dogs, and being able to provide appropriate medical care IS a basic need. I think you did what you could, but it's just something to consider when you are ready to get another dog. Not just for you - for anyone considering getting a dog. If Jura tests as clear of rabies, why would you need to continue the shots?


i heard that once i complete the shots it will give me an immunity for rabies for like 1 year or something.

if im wrong. please do so enlighten me. 

i see thousands of people who are poorer than me and cant even afford dog food that take care of dogs, and their dogs grow just fine with their left overs.
im pretty sure im a better owner than those people who are actually in majority here in the philippines.
but yeah im pretty sure im not a better dog owner than you who always have money for emergencies like this. again i apologize if i disappointed you that i didn't have money for emergencies.
won't happen again oh mighty dog master.

unsubscribing and will never visit this forums again either until im rich and always have money for emergencies just to make sure i wont receive any bashing again for not being rich.
goodbye and thanks for everyone who understood the situation and actually cared. deeply appreciated.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

I am so, so sorry that you went through this and even more so that people here are STILL giving you grief about it. Try to ignore them and their unnecessary and unkind judgementalness and know that you did everything you could. My heart goes out to you. Run free, little Jura.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

I think people here are just dog lovers who are maybe accustomed to conditions in first world countries. I agree, this is a bit unkind. 

I'm so sorry about your dog and all you went through. It really seemed like you did the most you could. My heart goes out to you.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> Poor puppy. I am so sorry you lost him, and have no doubt you did as much as you felt you could do. A small, unsolicited suggestion. If you decide to get another dog, please wait until you are financially able to meet his needs and save enough for emergencies, or get pet insurance (if it is offered where you live). The fact is, you chose to get a puppy when you were out of work and broke. Prednisone (the steroid often used for swelling/inflammation is a relatively cheap drug and xrays are not that expensive. They might have helped, or the result may have been the same even with better vet care. And I understand when people can't spend thousands on a pet. But it's sad when a pup's life hangs in the balance because even the most basic care is unaffordable.


Really? Her dog just died and you want to give her a lecture on not having dogs unless you're financially prepared for every possible emergency situation? You didnt explicitly state it this way but its like you're blaming her for her dog dying because she couldn't afford the medical care. How insensitive and unkind. Should people in third world countries just not own dogs?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Daenerys said:


> Really? Her dog just died and you want to give her a lecture on not having dogs unless you're financially prepared for every possible emergency situation? You didnt explicitly state it this way but its like you're blaming her for her dog dying because she couldn't afford the medical care. How insensitive and unkind. Should people in third world countries just not own dogs?


I figured I'd get some flack. But I do believe that people who intentionally seek out owning a puppy should be aware that it is a bigger financial burden than just buying dog food. If it saves one dog, I'm okay with you being shocked by me. I don't know that this pup could have been saved by better treatment, but there are a whole lot of details in the story that don't add up.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm pretty sure even a rich American in the Philippines wouldn't be able to find decent vet care, unless it's an area with a lot of expats and a Western vet saw an opportunity and moved there. It's hard enough to find decent medical care for children there (or at least that was the situation about 20 years ago when I had a Philippina friend who had relatives living there). As to whether a dog would be "saved" by not living with someone who can't afford the limited vet care that is available, I don't know. Street dogs and farm dogs (like this puppy was) are usually better off when brought into a family that cares about them, even if they can't afford a bunch of vet care. It's a whole different world over there. At least the dog avoided being turned into street meat.

Sorry for your loss .


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## jenz (Aug 20, 2010)

I've been quietly following the thread and praying for little Jura. Juramentando, I'm so sorry she passed away. And sorry you have to go through the series of painful rabies shots, too. Deepest condolences,

Jen


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Pawzk9 said:


> I figured I'd get some flack. But I do believe that people who intentionally seek out owning a puppy should be aware that it is a bigger financial burden than just buying dog food. If it saves one dog, I'm okay with you being shocked by me. I don't know that this pup could have been saved by better treatment, but there are a whole lot of details in the story that don't add up.


Well traveling through online world it's sometimes possible a fairy tale or two might sneak in, It just comes with the territory.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

jenz said:


> And sorry you have to go through the series of painful rabies shots, too. Deepest condolences,
> 
> Jen


If the dog who bit him is being tested and is negative for rabies, he doesn't need to go through the series of shots.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

Juramentando, I am so sorry to hear of Jura's passing. I am certain you did the best you could, and even better than many Western pet owners. Please stay around, if you wish, and pay no mind to the nay-sayers. I think you are probably a better pet owner than many wealthy Westerners!


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

> even the most basic care is unaffordable.


Xrays and steroids, multiple vet visits and multiple opinions are not "the most basic care". OP has learned that tragedies happen... lets not add insult to injury.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

aiw said:


> Xrays and steroids, multiple vet visits and multiple opinions are not "the most basic care". OP has learned that tragedies happen... lets not add insult to injury.



Exactly! I am downright disgusted by the level of unkindness of some of the people posting in this thread. Get off your judgmental high horses and have some compassion for a person struggling to do their best in a difficult situation.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I just wanted to say... I am so very sorry that Jura passed. From your posts in earlier threads, he sounded like an awesome puppy. It sounds like he went peacefully at the very end.

The amoxicillin was absolutely necessary to prevent infection in the bite wounds. As I recently learned myself, it can take as little as 1-2 days for a dog bite to become infected, then abscessed, which can then lead to sepsis and death if not treated immediately (prevention is the best cure, in this case - there is also some evidence that some antibiotics including amoxicillin can reduce swelling during prolonged use). Second, Rabies testing is done on brain tissue and can only be done post-mortem. So it wouldn't be possible to test the other dog until it dies. 

Juramento, I am so sorry for the awful things you've had to go through in the past week. I can't imagine having to go through all of that. I also wanted to commend you for putting so much more effort into saving Jura than a lot of people would have. You literally did everything that was possible for you to try to save him.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

gingerkid said:


> Second, Rabies testing is done on brain tissue and can only be done post-mortem. So it wouldn't be possible to test the other dog until it dies.
> 
> .


Jura was the dog who bit him, and he said his mother insisted they take the body in for rabies testing. If the test is negative, no reason he should have to continue the series of painful shots, unless he is a vet tech or at high risk of dog bite, in which case it might provide some immunity.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Pawzk9 said:


> Jura was the dog who bit him, and he said his mother insisted they take the body in for rabies testing. If the test is negative, no reason he should have to continue the series of painful shots, unless he is a vet tech or at high risk of dog bite, in which case it might provide some immunity.


Because Jura could not be kept for examination, and was not healthy, the shots were administered as a safety caution. In the US a vet quarantines the dog for 10 days, and if the dog shows no signs of Rabies, then the person does not need to get the shots. HOWEVER, in the Philippines the protocol is different and testing the animal's brain tissue for Rabies is probably more expensive than just getting the shots. Remember, the OP IS in a third world country.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Hello everyone. i'd like to say both sorry and thank you.
sorry for my last post. i could've taken that better. i'm usually good at dealing with criticism but i guess i was overwhelmed by emotion that time. my dog had just passed away and my own mental and physical stress was at the highest point as well from going back and forth to the vet, to the hospital etc to worrying blah blah blah. i apologize because of just a couple of people, i sorta generalized in my last post that people in this forums are like the person you know im talking about. the truth is it's not. there are so many kind-hearted people in here and one reason i came back to this forums is because of a wonderful motivating message from Avery. and that's what i'm thankful for. the kind people here that gave motivation and prayers.

going against Pawzk9's advice, i actually adopted a 2 year old Giant Black Spitz - Chow Chow mix(can't take pix now since my crapberry got broken the very same day Jura was attacked!). and he's just beautiful! he's almost all black except for his left and right foot which is white, and he looks like a wolf, he also has orange eyes so my family was afraid of him at first. i feed him raw chicken(told you food aint no problem). and we go out for a 20minute leisure walk in the afternoon. and then at 3am i exercise with him at a nearby shopping district where we walk in a fast pace, and him jumping on those little fences they use in parking lots whatever those are called, and climbing up and down the stairs outside the malls. it's great! it's like i have a giant training ground for a dog in there. that place is really busy in the morning, afternoon and night but at dawn... the place is all for me and my dog. that exercise lasts around 1hr and 20minutes. then we walk towards home and when i'm in my neighborhood im always on the lookout for open gates. there have been several times that a dog comes near my dog but i instinctively block that other dog... i know sometimes dogs just want to come and meet a new dog and play, so sometimes i feel bad about blocking the other dog. i guess the attack on jura left me with a little trauma. even though my new dog is pretty decent in size(around 21" height, and 40lbs). i tend to become overprotective.. but that's an issue i'm gonna work on.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Congratulations on your new dog! What is this one's name? I can't wait to see pictures. Here's hoping to a stress- and incident-free life with your new buddy!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Awwwwe .... Congratulations on your new Boy!  I understand how emotional a loss of a pet is .... I am sure that the unfortunate situation you had to endure has left a bit of trauma. I know that was a very very hard lesson. My Boy Leeo left me 6 months ago ... but from disease. I cannot imagine what you had to go through. I would have been more than devastated in your shoes.

I wish you luck with your new guy. I also will be looking forward to some pictures of him some day when you are able. He sounds beautiful!

Now that you have that new employment your new Boy should have no worries.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

@abbylynn
sorry about your loss too. i see him in your sig. what a cute boy! pretty sure he's a cute doggie angel now hehe
yeah i think i have some trauma from the attack on jura, cuz that's when i learned first-hand and the hard way that some dogs can just attack out of no where without warning.
but i dont want to keep that bad experience from socializing my dog. my family in the province has a lot of dogs and i want my new boy to socialize and play with them when we go home there during holidays(which is a lot here in my country)

@daenerys
his name is Smokes haha. i named him that because he has these long hair formation on the back of his ears. 3 kinda thick strands each side. hm.. kinda like dreadlocks lol i asked my vet if that is natural or the previous owner made it intentionally. my vet said that its hair that wasnt brushed properly after getting wet. my vet then commented "at least it looks good on him! he kinda looks like bob marley!". so i named him Smokes, cuz he looks kinda reggae

i can't wait to show you guys some pictures of him!


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

He sounds like a good looking dog! 

Congrats on your new addition! I'm sure he'll help ease the pain of losing Jura. Dogs are good for that.


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Congrats! I am so happy for you finding a new friend. I was worried the experience my have been so traumatic for you that you may have been scared to move on.
Thanks for coming back! Can't wait to see pics of Smokey. I'm sure he be jammin' heehee =)
I hope you are physically feeling better as well!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Congratulations on the new pup, and I'm glad you decided to come back.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Congratulations on the new pup, and I'm glad you decided to come back.


I also would have been disappointed if you had not made it back to us. Might not hurt on your walks to carry a walking stick/wood club etc to protect new dog and you from future attacks. If it's not gonna help it surely won't hurt to be more prepared.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Might not hurt on your walks to carry a walking stick/wood club etc to protect new dog and you from future attacks. If it's not gonna help it surely won't hurt to be more prepared.


Agreed. In addition, some members here carry a cattle prod with them on their walks. Might be a good idea for you to look into.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

thank you folks! this is truly a great forum for dog lovers, and maybe the best forum too.
i've always wanted a wolf-looking dog so i always wanted a syberian husky or alaskan malamute, but those dogs are too expensive and maybe even if i have the money, i'd be hesitant to get one because as per my knowledge. those dogs arent suited for hot countries like mine. and it does get very hot in here all year round. our coolest temperature here is like 21degrees which is around christmas.
so for Smokes to just suddenly come along in my life, and for free as well. black, wolf-like appearance, orange eyes, and the energy is just right. its really a blessing and i couldnt ask for more.
im an aethiest but if spirits are true. i hope jura's spirit doesn't get jealous hehe

@wvasko
i did say that if i get a puppy again, i would carry a stick with me whenever we walk. on another forum where i posted what happened to jura. one poster said "another reason you should carry a gun/knife with you to protect your dog!". and there was actually another thread there where one poster admittedly say that he has a carry and conceal and that he would not hesitate to shoot a dog if one attacks his. so you guys be careful of those kinda of people. im surprised that some people actually have guns with them while walking with dogs!
anyway Smokes isn't a puppy anymore and he's pretty decent in size.. so i dont know if i still need a stick. whenever another dog approaches us and in a fast way. he does get into a stance where you know he's ready to defend himself and i do put myself in between them and the dog. and i live in a metropolitan area. so i think we'll look weird with a stick >_> also i like enjoying our walks specially the 3am walks even though its fast paced and more like a training kind of walk, im not sure if i'll be able to enjoy it as much as i do with a stick on another hand.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> he does get into a stance where you know he's ready to defend himself and i do put myself in between them and the dog.


OK, now I would never tell you what's a better program. You are there in real life while I am here in online fairy tale land. 

Just think about it for a bit, you have a new dog and you are gonna step between him and another dog. You just got bit by your last pup, this is an older/larger and basically a strange new dog for you. May not be the best idea to step between. We got to keep you healthy so you can take care of your new rascal. Just sayin'....


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

wvasko said:


> OK, now I would never tell you what's a better program. You are there in real life while I am here in online fairy tale land.
> 
> Just think about it for a bit, you have a new dog and you are gonna step between him and another dog. You just got bit by your last pup, this is an older/larger and basically a strange new dog for you. May not be the best idea to step between. We got to keep you healthy so you can take care of your new rascal. Just sayin'....


i've actually had him for a week now so its not that he's still a complete stranger for me. when a dog tries to come near us.. Smokes doesn't really go in that showing the teeth and growling thing. hes just aware that a dog i coming near him and he's ready.
and i've almost completed those rabies shots as well, so i would be immune for a year or so from rabbies. Smokes had his anti-rabbies shot too so im not that afraid of getting bitten anymore.

its not that im disregarding your advice. on the contrary, i seriously appreciate every advice i get from you guys. cuz you don't know me at all and you take the time to give me tips so i can take better care of my dog. but for now, i dont think i need a stick. im just trying to be really alert with my surroundings. and whenever i see an open gate.. even though im not sure whether theres a dog there or not. i go back and find another way around. i noticed that those dogs who are kept inside a house are the ones barking at us. and the stray dogs are the ones that are just curious and looking at us. we actually encountered a pack of stray dogs one afternoon. kinda surprised me because i didn't know they were there at the side. i got nervous of course but nothing happened. those stray dogs had really good temperament.


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

Don't feel bad about blocking your dog from loose dogs! You're being responsible and looking out for the safety of your dog! Good for you! I don't think ANYONE should trust loose dogs to approach theirs! It's awful that the trauma from Jura's ordeal left you scared, but IMO, you can never be too cautious. I commend you for being safe and careful and RESPONSIBLE! And congratulations on your new addition!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> @wvasko
> i did say that if i get a puppy again, i would carry a stick with me whenever we walk. on another forum where i posted what happened to jura. one poster said "another reason you should carry a gun/knife with you to protect your dog!". and there was actually another thread there where one poster admittedly say that he has a carry and conceal and that he would not hesitate to shoot a dog if one attacks his. so you guys be careful of those kinda of people. im surprised that some people actually have guns with them while walking with dogs!
> anyway Smokes isn't a puppy anymore and he's pretty decent in size.. so i dont know if i still need a stick. whenever another dog approaches us and in a fast way. he does get into a stance where you know he's ready to defend himself and i do put myself in between them and the dog. and i live in a metropolitan area. so i think we'll look weird with a stick >_> also i like enjoying our walks specially the 3am walks even though its fast paced and more like a training kind of walk, im not sure if i'll be able to enjoy it as much as i do with a stick on another hand.


It's difficult to believe that after your experience with the puppy, you are unwilling to take precautions just because you might not enjoy the walk as much if you are carrying a stick. Even adult dogs can be killed or seriously injured in a fight, and that means medical expenses you can't afford or another traumatic experience (and possible dog bite to you trying to break things up). Can you afford it? It's better to be prepared without need than to find yourself unprepared and risking yourself and your dog. An umbrella (the kind that opens with the push of a button can be an excellent way to block a dog from your dog. Of course you would need to condition your dog not to be afraid of the umbrella when it pops open. Also, the mats behind his ears may be cute, but they are also uncomfortable and need to be removed. And you will probably need to brush out the area behind his ears frequently to keep him from matting.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Daenerys said:


> Really? Her dog just died and you want to give her a lecture on not having dogs unless you're financially prepared for every possible emergency situation? You didnt explicitly state it this way but its like you're blaming her for her dog dying because she couldn't afford the medical care. How insensitive and unkind. Should people in third world countries just not own dogs?


i agree whole-heartedly w/ this....i'm not in a 3rd world country and i couldn't afford emergency care for my dogs either (here comes the lectures, i'm sure)......it's not that i can't afford it at all, i just would not have it readily available to have my dog treated.....unfortunately, there are people out there that have ruined it for people to be able to make payments, instead of having to pay b/4 the animal even gets looked at.....doesn't mean i wouldn't do everything i could to acquire the funds.....


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

Congrats on your new boy! Looking forward to seeing pics soon. I agree with the wisdom a few others have shared that having something to defend Smokes and yourself from attack again would be a good idea. A stick is good. I carry a mini air horn that I would blast if I needed to scare a dog off. It's small and fits in my hand. That might be less conspicuous than a stick, or you could carry a walking cane so it doesn't look so out of place. Congrats again and glad you came back.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

tirluc said:


> i agree whole-heartedly w/ this....i'm not in a 3rd world country and i couldn't afford emergency care for my dogs either (here comes the lectures, i'm sure)......it's not that i can't afford it at all, i just would not have it readily available to have my dog treated.....unfortunately, there are people out there that have ruined it for people to be able to make payments, instead of having to pay b/4 the animal even gets looked at.....doesn't mean i wouldn't do everything i could to acquire the funds.....


I'm the same too. I couldn't afford emergency medical care paid upfront for my dogs if it was more than $200 because I only work part time at almost minimum wage, but I plan on applying for a credit card for such emergencies so that I can make payments. I get paid steadily, just not a lot. Of course credit cards have limits so I would sill only be able to pay so much, but I'm not going to not own dogs simply because I don't have 1k+ set aside in case if emergencies. I can certainly afford food, shelter, basic shots, spaying and neutering, and I can buy them toys and treats and basic supplies like crates bowls and leashes. One of my dogs eats raw and the other eats Earthborn. They get daily exercise and extra when I have time. I think they have it pretty good even though I don't have an emergency fund.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

In my eyes an emergency fund is a good idea when owning a dog... not a requirement.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Pawzk9 said:


> It's difficult to believe that after your experience with the puppy, you are unwilling to take precautions just because you might not enjoy the walk as much if you are carrying a stick. Even adult dogs can be killed or seriously injured in a fight, and that means medical expenses you can't afford or another traumatic experience (and possible dog bite to you trying to break things up). Can you afford it? It's better to be prepared without need than to find yourself unprepared and risking yourself and your dog. An umbrella (the kind that opens with the push of a button can be an excellent way to block a dog from your dog. Of course you would need to condition your dog not to be afraid of the umbrella when it pops open. Also, the mats behind his ears may be cute, but they are also uncomfortable and need to be removed. And you will probably need to brush out the area behind his ears frequently to keep him from matting.


im not sure but i think some people like me consider avoiding opened house gates and keeping distance from on the loose dogs as precautions.
but if not, do so educate me again mr.professor

one of the things i dont like is being tense and too uptight when im walking with my dog. and i think a stick would make me exactly that. especially when every person that sees me looks at me in a weird way because i'm carrying a stick.
call me a bad student mr.professor but i'd rather have a failed grade with your online criticism than me ruining the great experience i'm having with my new dog. thanks for being really concerned about my expenses though but i prefer to live my life not being too uptight about money as well XD

ah and about the mats behind Smokes ears. sorry to disappoint you again but i don't plan to remove that. i think the dog will let me know if he's uncomfortable about it or not.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> im not sure but i think some people like me consider avoiding opened house gates and keeping distance from on the loose dogs as precautions.
> but if not, do so educate me again mr.professor
> 
> one of the things i dont like is being tense and too uptight when im walking with my dog. and i think a stick would make me exactly that. especially when every person that sees me looks at me in a weird way because i'm carrying a stick.
> ...


I'm a Ms., not a Mr. Be snide if you want. I would hate to ruin your experience by pointing out that better safe than sorry, better to be concerned about expenses than unable to help your dog, and better to groom your dog than allow uncomfortable matting. But, you'll do what you will, because basically you are more concerned with what you want than your dog's safety and confort.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

Pawzk9 said:


> I'm a Ms., not a Mr. Be snide if you want. I would hate to ruin your experience by pointing out that better safe than sorry, better to be concerned about expenses than unable to help your dog, and better to groom your dog than allow uncomfortable matting. But, you'll do what you will, because basically you are more concerned with what you want than your dog's safety and confort.


yes i will do what i will. call me a bad dog owner. i'll take that.

i'll even call you a great dog owner. and i'm not being sarcastic. i personally think you're a great dog owner. but not everyone will follow the same rules that you do. and not everyone can.(having emergency funds at all times. grooming the dog the same way as you do) and by the way i do brush my dog.

i'm a bad dog owner. end of story. couldn't care less. i'm enjoying walking/exercising with my dog with our giant play ground and i'm sure he's enjoying it too. i don't care if you are happy about my decision not to carry a stick or not. i only care about me and my dog being happy.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

I don't think you're a bad owner at all Juramentado, I think you went above and beyond for your dog in a tough situation... but I do think you should remove the matts, lots of dogs won't let you know if they're uncomfortable and he can develop hot spots. I also think you might consider a stick or airhorn, lots of members here use them and the airhorn can be quite small, not really noticeable to you or anyone else. Its your choice of course but don't let bad feelings about one member color how you feel about good suggestions.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I've been following this thread and I'm glad to hear that you're happy again! Accidents happen, you did the best with what you had and there is NO shame in that.

Are you able to post pictures? I love big fluffy dogs.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Honestly I'm not willing to walk around carrying a stick, either.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

regarding the mats. just a few minutes ago i grabbed a sharp scissors and tried to remove them myself but he wants to play with my hand and i worry about any accidents with the scissors so i think i'll let the dog groomers do that job. my vet's clinic also has a grooming area.

but the stick is a no no
airhorn.. i'll think about it lol i don't know. its just that.. a 22 year old guy walking around the city with an airhorn.. i dont know if its the right term but its just too cheeky/cheesy for me.

and for those who think that i put what i want first before the safety of my dog. sure sure..
but i'm willing to put myself in between my dog and an attacking dog and use my body as a human shield. 
pretty sure i want not to get bitten too. but that's just how it goes lol


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

I live in rural Brazil where no one walks their dogs. Well, I have seen 1 person walking a dog, but that was months ago and I've never run into them again. For example, this morning I heard a guy talking on his phone and he said "Oh, the American is walking past my house right now." to which the other person must have said- how do you know she's American? because next he said "Because Brazilians would never walk their dog every day like she does."

I walk with a stick, every day. I also keep rocks in my pockets. With bitches going in and out of heat here, any house that has a bitch in heat has males around, and sometimes I don't see them until we are close (they tend to lurk). Bob is still intact, so there's definitely a real and present danger there. 

Everyone seems to know what the stick is for. I'd rather have a cattle prod, but we have different ones here that don't work the same as in the US. The junk yard owner, who LOVES my dogs and still laughs every morning when he sees me- he's never seen a dog on a lead and finds it hilarious- anyway he said this morning your dogs must be really mal-tempered if you need to carry a stick to control them. I didn't bother to correct him!

My DH, who has cowboy skills, also carries his lasso. He had an aggressive dog charge him a few weeks ago (It really pissed him off, but he has lots of animal handling experience so he was able to protect himself and our bitch) , so the next week when a different dog charged he lassoed that dog and kept him away from our pet. I've been charged once, threatened many times, but I never had to hit any dogs, thank gawd. One did come within 5 feet of us, and Bob was ready to fight. That was scary. I didn't need any coffee that morning!

So I write all of this to say we are in a city in rural Brazil- perhaps similar to where you live Juramentado- and carrying a stick is no weirder than walking a dog!



Juramentado said:


> regarding the mats. just a few minutes ago i grabbed a sharp scissors and tried to remove them myself but he wants to play with my hand and i worry about any accidents with the scissors so i think i'll let the dog groomers do that job. my vet's clinic also has a grooming area.
> 
> but the stick is a no no
> airhorn.. i'll think about it lol i don't know. its just that.. a 22 year old guy walking around the city with an airhorn.. i dont know if its the right term but its just too cheeky/cheesy for me.
> ...


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I may be twice your age plus some ... but I use a walking stick .... and use it to lean on when we stop for a break ... poke at the ground in the woods to avoid maybe running into some quicksand ... clear some brush or those nasty spiderwebs ... and there are many creatures in the woods where I live ... including Coyotes. If I were to come across some stray dogs ... I am prepared. What I am "not" prepared for is to risk having my dogs maimed or worse .. or bitten myself.

You can maybe have someone or yourself make a nice looking walking stick ... carve something cool into it ... maybe some "Marley" ... "Smoke's" name ... and it could appear that there is a special purpose for it.

I am also going to use my walking stick for a tug toy once it becomes worn. Lol! Or maybe I will teach the dogs to jump over the stick to have some fun while we are out and about ... Just a thought!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I think we are beating a dead horse, there is not gonna be any stick carrying going on.


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

Donnie Downer 8 )



wvasko said:


> I think we are beating a dead horse, there is not gonna be any stick carrying going on.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

I ready thru the whole post and it was so heart-breaking. I'm sorry for your awful experience. Also i'm glad you didn't let a few bad apples ruin the Forum experience for you. We don't all think so harshly and we know things aren't alway so black and white. 
About the stick thing. Maybe you can carry a smaller stick where it won't be so noticeable or maybe some pepper spray in your pocket. But i have to admit I don't carry anything and I have been approached a few times by large dogs. It is scary. I just keep my dog to the side of me on a tight leash and I stand very stiff and tell the dog NO Back off! in a deep voice. I am a small woman so I try to make myself sound mean and so far it has worked. I'm glad you have new dog to start bonding with.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Juramentado said:


> regarding the mats. just a few minutes ago i grabbed a sharp scissors and tried to remove them myself but he wants to play with my hand and i worry about any accidents with the scissors so i think i'll let the dog groomers do that job. my vet's clinic also has a grooming area.
> 
> but the stick is a no no
> airhorn.. i'll think about it lol i don't know. its just that.. a 22 year old guy walking around the city with an airhorn.. i dont know if its the right term but its just too cheeky/cheesy for me.
> ...


http://www.entirelypets.com/directstop.html safe. effective. available on line. you can clip it to your belt and nobody will notice.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

LMH said:


> I I have been approached a few times by large dogs. It is scary. I just keep my dog to the side of me on a tight leash and I stand very stiff .


Great way to create a reactive dog.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

@titiaamor
walking a dog here in manila is not that weird. although majority of dog owners here don't walk their dogs. i've seen plenty of them.
the only problem here is, people will only walk their dogs if the dog is a purebred. specially if its a syberian husky etc etc people get embarassed walking a mutt because everyone here thinks that a mutt is a poverty/dirty dog.
i was actually just drinking with a high school buddy of mine a few nights ago and he told me they have a dog but they dont walk it because its a mutt and really looks like a common street dog here in manila. i said its still an animal and deserves to be happy. he said even me would be unwilling to walk that dog because its so stupid, it bites and destroys all their slippers in their garage where their dog is leashed. i said it destroys your slippers because its bored full of energy thats why you need to walk him and a chew toy would help. he just changed the subject.

@Abbylyn
that's a cool stick and i mean it. but don't get me wrong guys. walking a dog with a stick would be really cool in a country or when you're going to the woods. i know i would do that when me and Smokes go to the province during holidays and take him hunting with my friends too. but not in the city..

@Pawzk9
that's interesting. i will look it up and see if its available here. if not.. i saw an airhorn that can fit with one of my short's pocket. the short has a deep pocket so if i get an airhorn i guess that's gonna be my dog walking shorts.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)




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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

He's beautiful!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

He is absolutely gorgeous!  Great photos too!

I like your idea for special dog walking shorts.  I do the same thing ... there are items I like to take along just in case .......


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

He's so handsome! What a cutie. I'm glad you've found a new friend!

Special dog-walking shorts is a good idea! We started using the same idea - but there's two of us and we trade off walks so we use a pouch on a belt. Also makes it easier if we need to ask anyone else to look after him for a while.


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## Juramentado (Sep 24, 2012)

thanks guys, im sure if smokes can speak and read he'll be thanking you guys too haha

yeah that shorts that im talking about is pretty thick and long too so most of my legs are protected from bites. pretty heavy but its ok. lots of deep pockets. i have a space for a mini airhorn and for smoke's treats if needed.


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