# english mastiff vs. bullmastiff



## cooksomerice (Jul 1, 2009)

have been a Lab owner for years. I have owned 3 labs over many years. I trained them well and raised them from pups. They were great companions and very obiedient. They have past now and I have decided to try a new breed. 

I want a mastiff. I have considered getting one for a few years, but other pets and babies of my own kept me from doing so. 

I live on a shaddy .7 acre lot completely enclosed by fence. But we live in the city and there is crime around us. I want an intimidating and protective dog for my home. 

To get my four daughters aquainted with dogs, we purchased an english bulldog 6 months ago. They have done well with adjusting to a dog in our family. They love Daisy. 

I am not a fan of the dog. I have been unsucessful in training the dog in any way. She is about 30% housetrained. If we are prompt, she will go outside. If we hesitated after feeding or just random times in the evening, she will go in the house. She does not respond well to commands, even though I have spent time traing her to commands such as Come, sit, stay. 

I am Hijacking my own post. Dont get me started on the bully, on with the post. 

I am aware of the origin of the bull mastiff and so, I want to avoid then if are very similar to the bully. 

However, I want to hear from owners/ breeders who can speak to their temperment and intellect. Are they trainable. Will they respond well to training. 

Same with regards to the english mastiff. 

What are the stricking differences? 

Which would you pick and why? 

Thanks in advance for everyones time and thoughts.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

none of the mastiff breeds are high on the trainability list, but most are high on the snuggly list

Bull Mastiffs are smaller than English mastiffs. both are heartbreaker breeds (live avery short life)


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Keechak said:


> none of the mastiff breeds are high on the trainability list, but most are high on the snuggly list
> 
> Bull Mastiffs are smaller than English mastiffs. both are heartbreaker breeds (live avery short life)


I agree with what Keechak said here. Mind you I absolutely LOVE both of these breeds. I prefer the Bull Mastiff as it is slightly more agile and athletic. Neither will be like a Lab in anyway. Labs are bred to work "with" you and Mastiff's and Bull Mastiff's were bred to be able to work alone. This is not to say that they are not trainable it is just that they are different. You would be less likely to see either of these breeds winning the high points at an obedience trial. Not because they are less intelligent either. They are just different. They have a "Why should I do that?" way of thinking vs. "Would you like me to do that for you?" type of thinking of the Lab. If that makes any sense?
As far as training your Bull dog, I am surprised you are having a hard time with him. Set up a tight schedule and stick to it. If your dog is not yet reliable, I would take away any and all unsupervised time until you are certain that the job is done. Do you crate your dog? Are you intending to get a second dog or re-home the dog you currently have?


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## cooksomerice (Jul 1, 2009)

I am crating out bully at night. During the day, she spends much of the day on our porch, with many short breaks inside. We walk her out to pee before coming inside for breaks from the heat. We have a sitter with our children who knows what's going on.

We care for her and are growing closer to her in spite of the trouble we have had adjusting to her differences.

We do not have any plans to rehome her or whatever.

I do plan on bringing a new breed into our family and hope that, if anything, it might help her learn and pick up some skilz.

Good to know regarding the comments above. Thanks.
I do realize that the bullmasiff is more agile and athletic than the english.
But I guess I have to come to grips with the fact that both breeds are not going to be as obiedient and willing to learn as the lab.

have to decide if I am have the patience and ability to adapt.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

cooksomerice said:


> I am not a fan of the dog. I have been unsucessful in training the dog in any way. She is about 30% housetrained. If we are prompt, she will go outside. If we hesitated after feeding or just random times in the evening, she will go in the house. She does not respond well to commands, even though I have spent time traing her to commands such as Come, sit, stay.


I just wanted to touch on this and kind of echo what Inga said. You didn't mention how old Daisy is but with puppies (or really any potty training) strict scheduling is the key. Dogs learn to hold it by following a pattern from day to do - so if she is used to going out after dinner and you are late in doing so, it's not surprising that she goes in the house. Granted once the schedule is in place and rock solid, the dog should eventually learn to hold enough that a little variation between times isn't a big deal. Until she IS trained though, consistence is vital. 

And then, for your general info here are the links to the national club sites for both breeds. Usually this is a good place to start with breed research as most of your early questions are answered along the way.

English Mastiff:
http://www.mastiff.org/

Bullmastiff:
http://bullmastiff.us/

Edit: We posted at the same time, so some of what I said above may be negated by your current set up. Though as a point of interest, if a dog spends most of it's time living outside then it can be harder to potty train.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I HIGHLY suggest that if you're planning on getting EITHER of these breeds you go to a breed specific discussion forum and talk to the hundreds of owners you'll find there. I know of a great on that I and a few others on this board are members of (I'm a prior EM owner and I'm the state Coordinator for a Major Mastiff rescue). I will send you the sites address if you wish via PM. It has a WONDERFUL training section as well a great general MAstiff section which discusses what to look for in a reputable breeder and any other information you might need. 

I will tell you that Mastiffs, Bulldogs and Bullmastiffs are all VERY independent thinkers, it's part of the mollossor traits. This is mostly because of their history as fighting dogs (be it other dogs, Lions or Bulls) and as independent gaurdians of the properties of royalty. They need MUCH different training techniques and alot of patience. They are NOT labs or Dobes, both of which are HIGHLY trainable because they are motivated by instinct to please their owners.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I wouldn't advise getting either dog until your current dog is where you would like her as far as behavior and training are concerned. You can keep working with and training dog #1 after you get dog #2, but it's going to get more challenging as you have more dog work to do.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

As a Lab owner AND an English Mastiff owner, there are MAJOR differences in mentality between the two. It's even kind of hard to describe.

As for trainability...gosh there is a world of difference between my Lab and my Mastiff. Mastiff's are incredibly stubborn in that they will only do something when they feel like it, or with Uallis, sometimes not at all...if its not worth his while. Uallis is 2 years old and still will only come when called when he feels like it or when he decides to get around to it. Some of that, sure, is that I'm not the world's best dog trainer, but some of it is just his sheer stubbornness of..."I'll _maybe_ do what you want...when I want to do it". We've been working on recall since he was 10 weeks old... Uallis is the definition of the phase "Selective Hearing".


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I'd also recommend getting Daisy's problems figured out before you bring another dog in. 

Also, it is CRAZY HOT right now. Are you not in the States? Because if so, it is NOT safe to leave a bulldog outside right now.


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## cooksomerice (Jul 1, 2009)

thanks to all for your thoughts and advice.

I have no immediate plans to purchase a second dog this year. I am just planning and considering for next year.

I will definitely continue to work with Daisy and try to get her on a regular and more consistent schedule. Maybe this will help. Thanks for that.

She is crated inside each night and stays inside right up to each feeding. Then we scoot her out after meals and leave her for an hour or two. W have a covered and fanned porch where it stay considerably cooler than the yard.

We monitor her and when she looks ready to come inside, we invite her in. She actually seems to enjoy being out. 

Just hearing the differences in breeds from multiple posters has helped me sort of accept daisy for what she is. I have to let go of the lab expectations that I may have had for her.

Thanks again


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Dogstar said:


> I'd also recommend getting Daisy's problems figured out before you bring another dog in.
> 
> Also, it is CRAZY HOT right now. Are you not in the States? Because if so, it is NOT safe to leave a bulldog outside right now.


hehe. come to Wisconsin, it's been a high of 75 F here for the past week


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## Buddy Jacobs (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi 
I am a first time owner of a mastiff. His mom is an English masiff and dad is a Neo. I am also a former owner of a black lab. My lab was the best. I had to put him to sleep at 16, I miss him everyday. 

My mastiff and my lab are totally different dogs. Where my lab wanted to please all the time, my mastiff is like Hello!!

Anyway my hubby(dh) and I have always loved the look of mastiffs. A friend of mine bred her female and on the spot I put down a deposit with the understanding we would get a male. Anyway we got to meet him at 2 1/2 weeks and picked him up at 8 weeks. He has always been an inside dog and part of this family. NO LIE, he was trained within 2 weeks, never had that happen with my other pups.

He is definitely a lover and suck-up, very spoiled. I have never doubted getting this breed. The only thing I worry about is their short life span.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

I agree with Mdawn..the 10 week old mastiff/boxer I have is stubborn!! She'll look at you and bark in your face if you tell her what to do and she doesnt want to do it! She'll sit 8 out of 10 times and come 7 out of 10 times...Most of the time I'm dancing around looking like a dumb dumb trying to get her to come to me when she disobeys. While the 8-11 month old lab/cattle dog I have is like...I'LL DO WHATEVER YOU WANT!! TEACH ME!!!!

A lot of mastiffs aren't really that protective either, they weren't bred to attack an intruder, only hold them down until the owner comes to relieve them. Most just bark and look intimidating, but will let strangers in to the house..



> NO LIE, he was trained within 2 weeks, never had that happen with my other pups.


Weird! My mastiff pup house trained way faster than any of my other pups too! I was messing around with her one day and took her paw to scratch the door and took her out to potty, she's been doing it ever since!


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## Buddy Jacobs (Jul 24, 2009)

Please don't get me wrong, Buddy can be stubborn, definitely. But he is rewarded for good behavior and for bad he gets nothing. We will ignore him and trust me he hates that. He is definitely not dumb. He knows what he can get away with and what he can't. 

A trainer let me know that they need to know who the boss is. In other words if there are 2 people in the house and the dog, the dog needs to know they are on the bottom of the totem pole. In other words they need to listen to you or there are consequences. Does that make sense.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Pepper said:


> A lot of mastiffs aren't really that protective either, they weren't bred to attack an intruder, only hold them down until the owner comes to relieve them. Most just bark and look intimidating, but will let strangers in to the house..
> 
> *Aslan is one of those exceptions Pep,you wont get in here if he does not know you,the SBT well everyone is their best friend,idiots*
> 
> Weird! My mastiff pup house trained way faster than any of my other pups too! I was messing around with her one day and took her paw to scratch the door and took her out to potty, she's been doing it ever since!


*This is also true of Aslan he was very easy to train in regard to number 2's (poo)*

ETA:

forgot the topic at hand.
I think the bullmastiff and English mastiff are very similar in both look and personality and the one outstanding factor is the EM larger size,aside from that their guardian instinct and companionship is near enough the same.

Like others have said if you dont like stubborn then avoid both breeds.


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## Buddy Jacobs (Jul 24, 2009)

Mr Pooch said:


> *This is also true of Aslan he was very easy to train in regard to number 2's (poo)*
> 
> ETA:
> 
> ...


Definitely mastiffs both them and the bull mastiffs are stubborn but if you have the patience and the desire to own one of these breeds you will not be disappointed. They are a loyal and loving breed. 

Also the size of a mastiff will deter an intruder faster than a smaller more aggresive dog.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Keechak said:


> hehe. come to Wisconsin, it's been a high of 75 F here for the past week


Oh, just rub it in why doncha??!!!! 

Just had to pop in. Another mastiff discussion...whooohoooo!!!!


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

I have both a neo mastiifX Corso and a lab I can say without any doubt that labs are far easier to do ANYTHING with. my lab is 8 weeks old and knows sit, stay, come, walk on leash and wait.... my mastiff is 12 months and has just mastered sit, stay (sort of), come (if she thinks she should) and walk on leash...unless something else looks more interesting...

Labs are by far a more amiable breed...mastiffs are "i love you and we are friends but I think you're wrong so i'll do this" where as labs are more "OMG you're so neat, omg is that SIT, I don't want to get this wrong...OH I'm SO sorry you meant stay...i'm staying..see look at me stay..i love you, did you hear me I LOVE YOU!" so it depends what you're looking for.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

cooksomerice said:


> ... But we live in the city and there is crime around us. I want an intimidating and protective dog for my home.
> 
> ... I am not a fan of the dog. I have been unsucessful in training the dog in any way. She is about 30% housetrained. If we are prompt, she will go outside. If we hesitated after feeding or just random times in the evening, she will go in the house. She does not respond well to commands, even though I have spent time traing her to commands such as Come, sit, stay.
> 
> ... I am aware of the origin of the bull mastiff and so, I want to avoid then if are very similar to the bully.


It's been my experience that, of the 2 breeds, the Mastiff is more likely to _look_ more intimidating, solely due to size. The Bull Mastiff is more likely to be sharper, and more actively protective. Of the 2, my strong preference would be the B.M...

Having said that, and I suppose this is rather obvious:
There _are _"intimidating and protective" dogs which are also _highly trainable, _as well as being _handler/family friendly_.

I know the Bully breeds have a definite appeal, but perhaps you should consider another option, more appropriate for your needs, and for your family???


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## PetDogDepot (Jul 25, 2009)

I love them both, but I'd sway more to the English given the softer attitude towards children I have found between the breeds anyway..


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

I currently have 5 month old Great Dane/Bullmastiff mix. 

She has so much of that Bullmastiff behavior it ain't even funny! She can be *so* stubborn sometimes, but then she looks at you with those sad little dog eyes! She's spoiled and she knows it...

My Great Dane/Bullmastiff was a LOT easier to train then my APBT was. My APBT wasn't FULLY house trained (or anything similar to that) until about 8 months or so.. Doesn't mean I love him any less, but man did that get annoying! lol.

With Harleigh (Great Dane/Bullmastiff) I had her trained to sit-by-the-door-when-she-needed-to-use-the-bathroom in about 1 1/2 weeks. I was amazed! She also learned how to sit, lay, shake hands, wait/stay in about 1 1/2 months. She still hasn't gotten the come yet. It's more "I'll come when I wanna come" thing with that one.

I also agree with everyone else on here.. English Mastiff's and Bullmastiff's were not bred to attack, but simply pin them down. They are very protective of their family though and will not hesitate to pen down someone who they think is not welcome. 

One of the things I like Harleigh is that she'll only bark when she feels she needs too.. like when she hears something suspicious or something like that. I honestly think I've only heard her bark maybe 10 times since I've had her. Also, another thing I like about these breeds is that they are usually so gentle with kids and other animals (provided they are raised with them properly)... Harleigh is best friends with Phoebe (4 1/2 month old kitten), they play together, nap together, even use the same water bowl, even though they both have their own. They even LOVE to play in the water together. Yes, Phoebe (kitten) LOVES water. I have caught her numerous times swimming in the toilet.. We now have to make sure to keep all the lids down at night. LOL.

Anyways... I also agree that when you feel you have Daisy's habits under control, that then you should look into getting a dog. But it's good that you are thinking this far ahead and planning. Good luck!!


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## PetDogDepot (Jul 25, 2009)

Kitten swimming in the toilet, wow, lol!


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## HARLEYS MOM (Sep 8, 2009)

I am speaking for myself, I have owned/trained Dobermans and German Shepherds, both that are easy trainers. I bought my Bullmastiff when she was 16 weeks old, she knew how to sit/lay down/walk on a leash and was potty trained at 6 months old (it took me only 2 days!). She is a year and can crawl and "speak" on command. It's not like I'm constantly working with her as I have 4 kids and little time. I too wanted an English bulldog for an indoor dog and my friend bought one, she swears he's untrainable and he is always chewing up stuff. She also had a Dogue De Bordeaux, they both look mean but need socialization early so they aren't timid. I live on 13 acres and wanted something that looks mean but is great with kids. My little 2 yr old can ride her and she just lays there, but she has a natural instinct to protect. I really thought she would stay a wimp but one day the kids were at our pond (next to our neighbor, separated by a fence) and the neighbor came out and said in a deep voice "what are you kids doing?" and I thought there was a 300# dog out there by the way she was barking!! and she was 8 months old then. So don't always go by what people say, look at the breed info, if I only knew their life expectancy was 10-12 yrs! If you do end up buying one, the best training tool for these dogs are treats!! I could get her to do alot with treats! Good Luck!!


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## KasparovII (Aug 30, 2009)

For what you want the dog to be, which seems like a companion / protection role, I'd go with a bullmastiff. An English Mastiff is a huge animal, but so much of their drive has been bred out that IMO they are questionable guards, unless you get a line that is of the more vigilant variety (if you decide this is what you want, drop me a pm and I'll connect you to a good mastiff breeder whose dogs are good guardians). The bull mastiff, IMO, is a bit stubborn and training will probably be more difficult than it had been with your labs. But once they are taught who's the boss they are fairly responsive. They are usually pretty confident animals and are definitely more aggressive than an English Mastiff. The size difference is also pretty big. I wouldn't want an English simply because it's like having a cow living with you! The bull mastiff is just about (for me) an ideal size and even the females are plenty big enough to be a real threat if you have a home intruder or are messed with on the street. If I may, I would also ask you to consider a Cane Corso. They are, to my way of thinking, the "Cadillac" of the bull and mastiff breeds. They are usually pretty laid back but I have been involved in personal protection work and the Corsos are superb guardians...superior to either of the English breeds. They are more intense, more athletic and usually taller than a bull mastiff, which they closely resemble. But they do not have that "squat" overly wide physique that plagues some bull mastiff lines.They are usually slightly larger overall than a bullmastiff, but not by much. I good male goes between 110-140 lbs. with the females slightly less (95-115 lbs.). Both sexes are wonderful companion/protection dogs. They are also very quiet, barking only in appropriate situations. Hope this helps.

Just a quick p.s.
Do not judge the bull mastiff by the English bulldog. IMO, the English bulldog was developed as a show dog, with their confirmation being the first and foremost consideration. In fact, out of all of the English bulldogs I've seen/known, very few are what I would call good functioning companion dogs. The few that were functional (they could actually breathe properly and had legs!) would never win in an AKC show ring, which seems to prefer a meatloaf with tiny legs as the standard. They seem to be nice dogs, but not very functional. I'm not trying to degrade these dogs, just giving you my honest opinion. I am sure there are people who adore these dogs for what they are. But as you can see with yours, they aren't exactly responsive and I believe that this breed was created primarily for a given "look" rather than their brains or brawn.


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## sparkle (Mar 3, 2009)

cooksomerice said:


> I want an intimidating and protective dog for my home.
> 
> I have been unsucessful in training the dog in any way. She does not respond well to commands, even though I have spent time traing her to commands such as Come, sit, stay.
> 
> ...


FIrst of all if you are perpetuating a mastiff for protection then you increase the likehood of of having behavior issues especially if you and your family are not really good at setting boundaries for your dog and having a high leadership skill set.

In my work with Mastiffs and mastiffs rescues (I usually have 5 or 6 in foster or training) ALL the mastiffs are taught a reliable sit/stay, down/stay,come when called, heeling on leash, no jumping up ,no resource guarding, no chasing cats/things, and for the most part no excessive barking,and no teeth on human bodies.. This is accomplished with great success on all the mastiffs in a relative short time..

So YES definity Mastiffs can be easily trained in this regard. Temperment will depend mainly on the environment in which the dog is exposed to (management, socilization, and training) and how well the leadership role of the human is being played.

It depends on what I am looking for in a dog as to making a decision on wether I would own a mastiff of any type and for the most part if I wanted a protection dog I would choose something more proficient, more managable,something with less health issues, and a dog that has a longer life span in general. I too would recommend the Cane Corso if you like that *look/style* as they have a huge range of capabilities in this regard. ;')


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## Buddy Jacobs (Jul 24, 2009)

KasparovII said:


> I wouldn't want an English simply because it's like having a cow living with you!
> 
> Sorry but I love my cow, er, I mean mastiff. LOL. He was 176 lbs at 10 1/2 months, his doc said he will tip 200 by 1 yr. And the doc says he's all muscle, no fat. On a different note I think the doc would steal him in a second, he is so in love with my buddy. LOL
> 
> And I do have a list of possible kidnappers.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

I also love the "cow" that happens to live in my house! LOL  

It's true that they do take up a lot of space though. I prefer English Mastiff's because I don't desire a dog that is more aggressive in nature. My _Lab_ can be aggressive enough for both of them...lol Not to mention that while I think BM's are beautiful dogs, I prefer the looks AND size of the EM more. EM's, in my experience, ARE VERY stubborn. Uallis is stubborn as the day is long. He has a nice calm steady temperament though. He isn't overly protective because he has no reason to be but he has stood "guard" when he believes that he should. There have been a few strangers that have come to my house that couldn't even get close to me because attempts to come near me were body blocked by Uallis. Because of his size and his looks...he doesn't really need to do more than that. Not very many people are going to mess with a 200+lb dog. If they do then they are insane... I don't expect or want either of my dogs to take on the role of my protector though. I'm completely in love with the EM breed and love everything about them, from their size, the shape of their head, their HUGE paws and their tree trunk bodies. They are one of the most beautiful breeds of dog to me.


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## bully (Sep 16, 2009)

I definitely prefer the more athletic fit look and more lively enthusiasm of the BM over the EM. They are both great breeds!! I much prefer these stubborn independent thinkers over a dog staring at me drooling, waiting for the next sit command.


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## KasparovII (Aug 30, 2009)

I hope every English Mastiff owner/lover knows I was using "cow" in a positive way as these are absolutely huge. Pics do not ever convey their awesome size. But as I saidI'm more inclined to have a smaller (110-140lbs!) dog and look at my Cane Corso as MY personal standard for a companion dog.As an aside, I have owned two great (American)Akitas. Talk about stubborn! But once they learned a command they had it down pat. I would be very hesitant to have them participate in any protection training because they can be very aggressive with strangers...man or beast and such training may intensify that attitude to levels that aren't necessarily conducive to the average family life.JMO.


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## Buddy Jacobs (Jul 24, 2009)

I knew you didn't mean anything by calling my EM a cow. He actually wears a calf collar because the rest are either to small or to flimsy. The owner of the pet store I frequent actually recommended it because of his size. So you weren't off with the cow reference. LOL


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

KasparovII said:


> I hope every English Mastiff owner/lover knows I was using "cow" in a positive way as these are absolutely huge.


Oh, no worries! I wasn't offended in the least. It's a household joke that Uallis thinks he's a cow...so I found your reference particularly amusing because of that.  Even though you didn't single me out...I reread my post and it does sound a little snotty...My apologizes...I didn't mean it to sound that way. I'm just a cranky person by nature I think! haha 

Buddy, we actually considered a calf collar for our EM as I couldn't find a place locally that sold collars large enough to fit him. I wanted a nice sturdy leather collar for him and REFUSED to pay $50 or MORE for one. I went to this site at the suggestion of someone else and have bought a few collars from them. They are good quality, decently priced and most importantly...are LARGE enough to fit our dogs with their massive neck sizes...haha...I highly recommend them and if memory serves...they have free shipping, though I won't guarantee that...It's definitely worth checking out! 

http://www.yourpetstore.com/p-106-1-34-wide-leather-collars.aspx


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

bully said:


> I definitely prefer the more athletic fit look and more lively enthusiasm of the BM over the EM. They are both great breeds!! I much prefer a stubborn independent thinker over a dog staring at me drooling, waiting for the next sit command.


Hmm, sounds like you don't know much about EM's, they are VERY independent thinkers, that's what CAN make them a little harder to train. They also happen to be very athletic, I know EM's that compete in weight pull and agility. Yes they drool, however I will tell you that my English Bulldog drools just as much (if not more) than my EM did. The biggest difference in an EM from a BM is SIZE and head shape. They are close as far as temperament and the BM has a slightly higher energy level (from the Bulldog).


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## bully (Sep 16, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Hmm, sounds like you don't know much about EM's, they are VERY independent thinkers, that's what CAN make them a little harder to train. They also happen to be very athletic, I know EM's that compete in weight pull and agility. Yes they drool, however I will tell you that my English Bulldog drools just as much (if not more) than my EM did. The biggest difference in an EM from a BM is SIZE and head shape. They are close as far as temperament and the BM has a slightly higher energy level (from the Bulldog).


Sorry my fault!! I didn't explain that post correct. I meant to say that I prefer Both EM's and BM's over say a "retriever" or "Collie" type dog who have little independent type characteristics (who stare and "drool" waiting for their next command)

Make sense?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

bully said:


> Sorry my fault!! I didn't explain that post correct. I meant to say that I prefer Both EM's and BM's over say a "retriever" or "Collie" type dog who have little independent type characteristics (who stare and "drool" waiting for their next command)
> 
> Make sense?


Yeah, it does a little more. Though I don't that either if the other breeds exactly do that either. OF course I've never had a retriever or a collie, but have owned a number of working breeds as well as Bullies and my pug.


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## KasparovII (Aug 30, 2009)

If was post was unclear, my apologies. I would restate my opinion thusly. I realize that the EM is an ancient breed that was not deliberately bred to be a huge "cow". It's size, IMO, came from a natural selection process that has been going on since long before any of us were born. They are a "naturally" huge dog with "natural" being the operative word. And I have seen excellent movement in many top quality EM's. Because they are so big is why I wouldn't own one, but I do prefer very large mastiff breeds of all kinds. I've owned an excellent Cane Corso (about 140 lbs.) and he filled my requirements for size, movement, etc., quite nicely. But obviously their are EM almost twice his size AND can move very well as far as the breed goes. I have nothing but respect for this legendary "behemoth". And I have walked a few with a sense of pride. It's like walking an African lion! So, hopefully this clears up any misconceptions of what may have been perceived by a poorly worded post.


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## gilbequick (Jun 21, 2009)

We have an English Mastiff and he as not been difficult to train at all. He's more stubborn than many other breeds, but with a little bit of patience (and I have very little in general) they are very trainable. 

He is 11 months old now. He will not touch his food until allowed to, when you say "leave it" he'll not touch the object in question or drop whatever is in his mouth, he is trained to pee in the same 2'X4' area, sits/stays, loose leash walks like a champ, his mouth does not go on human skin, backs up upon command, and when you tell him "out" and point your finger away he'll leave the room (which was taught to make dinner a more pleasureable experience than having a dog than can reach most anything on the kitchen table without lifting his front legs).

He's still a puppy so he's extremely energetic, but does more than his fair share of lounging around. Obviously not as athletic as a Bull Mastiff, and I'd imagine much more messy with the never ending slobber. 

Incredibly good with children of all sorts, calm or screaming and wild. He just loves to be a part of the group. For us, he's the perfect family companion. 

Strangers are extremely reluctant to approach our doorstep, and he'll let you know when a stranger is approaching his house/yard. Even though he's friendly and gentle, his commanding bark, large size body and huge head is intimidating to those who don't know better, and some who do!

Yeah, if you can't tell I'm a fan of the English Mastiff. We will have more in the future.


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## KasparovII (Aug 30, 2009)

Sound like a great dog and you've obviously done a great job training him. Good luck with him and a long, good life for him!


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## BJohn27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I just registered, so kinda late for this topic, but did want to throw in my two cents worth here....

I have been fortunate enough to raise two english mastiffs. My closest friend had a bull mastiff. Both are wonderful breeds. In terms of my two english mastiffs they were on the opposite end of the spectrum with respect to family protection. My current mastiff is the sweetest animal. In fact, he is so sweet and harmless that I often times find this 220 pound dog running away from butterflies and rabbits in the yard. ahhhh..

My first engligh mastiff on the other hand had an extremely vibrant and out going personality. With that said though he was Extremely protective (more so than any corsos, rotts, dobermans etc that I have ever seen). Due to my work scheudule I had to keep him at a "doggie daycare" where he was frequently "suspended" for fighting with two Akitas. This 180 pound extremely powerful dog was very affectionate to all my family and extended family members and wonderful with children. However for any unknown adults walking in the house was a whole new story. Although he went through a tremendous amount of training, he was never safe with strangers in the house or when walking him in the neighborhood (ironically, as a pup he went to the dog park daily, pets mart every weekend had countless number of trainings etc.). He was just extremely protective of me and would not allow any strangers within twenty feet. On a side note, I never worried about anyone breaking into the house. 

Each breed has their strengths and shortcomings, albeit the two that I mentioned probably fall on the end of the continum of each other. Although there are other breeds with more of a hair trigger attack reaction, your standard english or bull mastiff will be as good a family protector as just about any other breed in the world.


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't have any personal experience with either of these breeds other than from seeing them at PetSmart. I do have experience with English Bulldogs though.. and yes they can be difficult to train! From what I'm reading in these posts, some people seem to think the mastiffs are also difficult to train, or "independent thinkers" as well (although obviously individual dogs are different of course regardless of breed). Maybe its just they have a different way of learning than the labs you are used to.
Have you considered any other breeds? My sister has always had rottweilers. They are intimidating in appearance and are very protective of their families. My sisters dogs have all been sweethearts but man do they have mean sounding barks! They are intelligent dogs who are easy to train, but are obviously very strong so you do need to work on the training for safety (example my sisters dog saw a cat while on leash and took off to chase it and pulled my mom straight onto the ground in a split second). 
I have a Pit Bull.. they are intimidating to most people but honestly mine and several I know make lousy guard dogs.. they just love people too much. My pit was incredibly easy to train. 
I love the looks of mastiffs and the ones I have met have been awesome dogs. I just personally couldn't deal with the short lifespan and all the drool!


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