# EXTREMELY aggressive 7 month German Shepherd



## gsdowner1 (Sep 8, 2013)

I have a 7 month old German Shepherd who is extremely aggressive. At home, she isn't allowed inside and stays in the backyard. Whenever someone comes over, she will immediately start barking (very loudly) and jumping and scratching at the door. On walks, she will go crazy when the second she sees another dog. The trainers at PetSmart suggested that we should take her to a dog park to socialize with other dogs. If she goes crazy when seeing another human or a single dog, would it be safe to take her to a dog park?

Also, she won't eat her food (Kirkland Signature Puppy Food) unless its mixed with either brown rice or chicken/pork. Is there any way to make her eat her food without mixing in rice/meat? She's REALLY skinny right now so I'd rather not try the "put the food out, take it back if she doesn't eat it, repeat" method.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

First and foremost, why are you keeping a puppy outdoors at all times? Second, she sounds like she is extremely unsocialized. What sort of socialization did you do when she was younger?


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> First and foremost, why are you keeping a puppy outdoors at all times? Second, she sounds like she is extremely unsocialized. What sort of socialization did you do when she was younger?


I agree....I've got to say, it sounds like the PetSmart trainers were actually pointing you in the right direction. That isn't aggression, that is a puppy that is justifiably excited with the world. You've obviously missed some major socialization, and your only option now is to play catch-up (much harder with a 7 month old than with a little puppy!). Seriously, for the sake of your dog and your eventual relationship with it and your family work on this. Of course if your intention is to just keep the dog in the back yard and not work on this, please consider rehoming.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Greater Swiss said:


> I agree....I've got to say, it sounds like the PetSmart trainers were actually pointing you in the right direction. That isn't aggression, that is a puppy that is justifiably excited with the world. You've obviously missed some major socialization, and your only option now is to play catch-up (much harder with a 7 month old than with a little puppy!). Seriously, for the sake of your dog and your eventual relationship with it and your family work on this. Of course if your intention is to just keep the dog in the back yard and not work on this, please consider rehoming.


 Gonna agree with these guys....also the dog park is NOT the best idea...it sounds like either it would be too much for your dog or you might have a bite problem. Take it slow and socialize your dog...also why is your dog an outdoor dog? Dogs USUALLY *not always* like being with their people so why is your dog outside when she probably jut wants to be with you guys


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

The last place you should take her is to a dog park. You would have no control over her or the other dogs and could result in a bad accident. Has she had any obedience training at all? The best thing would be to get her in a good obedience class is she is not too out of control or get a behaviorist in to help you to socialize her although this should have been done all along as it will be much harder now at her age but can be done with a lot of hard work.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

You're fixin to be highly offended but...

PLEASE bring your dog inside to be part of the family. GSDs crave being with their family and you've got her stuck outside all by herself.
1: You're exposing her to danger. Your dog is already barking and hitting the fence when people come near. She is a time bomb to be poisoned or shot. She could be stolen or escape and get lost/killed
2: She is still a baby and has no business being outside alone.

At least give her the option of coming inside. Most likely, she would much prefer to be inside with her family than outside alone.


Don't take her to the dog park.

But this may not be aggression, more like reactivity. I see it a lot in strictly outdoor dogs. They spend their time alone and unsocialized in a yard, so they react badly when they do get social interaction.
After you make her a part of your family and not a lawn ornament, try teaching her to 'sit' and 'watch me'. Also teach her 'leave it'. Look up the 'Look At That' game.


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## Doglover65 (Aug 10, 2013)

Uhm i see EVERYTHING wrong here

Under socialized, poor thing lives outside and you're takin her to PETSMART uhm yeah... 

You my friend should be going to a profession behaviourist/trainer, not a forum. Or petsmart....


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## Missy123 (May 30, 2012)

If I were kept outside in a backyard all the time, I'd go crazy when I saw other signs of life as well. :|


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

It sounds more like this is a normal GSD puppy who is starved for attention. Please, if you're not able to raise this puppy the way she needs, rehome her while she is still young enough to find a good home. This kind of life is cruel for a puppy like her.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

We fostered a GSD that lived in this kind of situation, Diesel....left outside for the most part once he wasn't cute and fuzzy any more. He came to us when he was about 2. Serious lack of socialization. Sweet guy, and very affectionate once he trusted you but nervous about a lot of simple things. Also, barely house trained. He was very like a puppy about many things, he hadn't learned much in the way of self control.....what does a puppy do when it is a bit scared? It does something instinctive: It bites. It doesn't mean it is a bad puppy, it just hasn't learned the appropriate reactions to simple things, like a person tripping for instance. It doesn't know when to back away from a dog that doesn't like it. Deis ended up in a home, that luckily, the new owner had a great affinity for him, and took him to a behaviorist. As wonderful as that dog was (and yes....aside from his fear, he was a sweet, dog, loving, loyal and affectionate, if we didn't have the other dogs I would have wanted to keep him and I still miss him), he will likely never be able to be considered a safe dog. An unsocialized dog, that made it to 90lbs that lacks the self control and socialization to know what is and isn't an attack. Not a good thing. Ask my DH and I....we both have the scars to prove it, and honestly, he didn't bite as hard as he could have. 

The OP is creating a situation like Diesel, though when the OP's dog finally bites someone, or attacks another dog or animal, he may not have the luck of finding people who understand, and a forever home that can put the work into him....he may simply be put down as a bad dog, not as the lonely creature, that probably wants love but is continually scared of the world, that the dog probably is. 

Please OP, if you aren't going to put some serious work into this dog, PLEASE rehome or talk to a breed-specific rescue....the dog may have missed some of the major socialization stages, but he is still young and may be salvageable by the right person.


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## gsdowner1 (Sep 8, 2013)

How would we socialize her when she goes crazy seeing just one dog?



SydTheSpaniel said:


> First and foremost, why are you keeping a puppy outdoors at all times? Second, she sounds like she is extremely unsocialized. What sort of socialization did you do when she was younger?


Right now she is confined outdoors because she is in heat, we don't really want blood dripping everywhere around the house. 
We got her from a friend when she was about 2-3 months old. When she moved in with us, she didn't have her shots yet so we didn't want to take her out. We started taking her for daily walks (about 40 minutes) when she was about 5 months old (the doctor recommended a waiting period after the shots before taking her out). The closest she's ever really gotten to another dog (excluding her family) was when we took her to PetSmart's class training. We had to drop out after the 3rd meeting because she kept going crazy and barking while the trainer was talking.



Greater Swiss said:


> I agree....I've got to say, it sounds like the PetSmart trainers were actually pointing you in the right direction. That isn't aggression, that is a puppy that is justifiably excited with the world. You've obviously missed some major socialization, and your only option now is to play catch-up (much harder with a 7 month old than with a little puppy!). Seriously, for the sake of your dog and your eventual relationship with it and your family work on this. Of course if your intention is to just keep the dog in the back yard and not work on this, please consider rehoming.


When we're on a walk and she sees another dog, she gets extremely aggressive. When she first sees the other dog, her posture straightens and her ears go up. As the other dog gets closer, her tail goes up and she starts whining, barking, jumping, etc.



kcomstoc said:


> Gonna agree with these guys....also the dog park is NOT the best idea...it sounds like either it would be too much for your dog or you might have a bite problem. Take it slow and socialize your dog...also why is your dog an outdoor dog? Dogs USUALLY *not always* like being with their people so why is your dog outside when she probably jut wants to be with you guys


What would be a good place to start? We can't even walk into PetSmart without her going crazy...
She's confined outdoors for now because she is in heat and because there is a guest staying at our house. When she sees the guest, she starts barking and jumping and clawing at the door.
We want to move her back indoors after she's out of heat but we're scared that she might "attack" the guest.



Kyllobernese said:


> The last place you should take her is to a dog park. You would have no control over her or the other dogs and could result in a bad accident. Has she had any obedience training at all? The best thing would be to get her in a good obedience class is she is not too out of control or get a behaviorist in to help you to socialize her although this should have been done all along as it will be much harder now at her age but can be done with a lot of hard work.


We took her to PetSmart for class training and dropped out the 3rd week because she kept barking in class. We rescheduled for 1 on 1 training and will start soon.



HollowHeaven said:


> You're fixin to be highly offended but...
> 
> PLEASE bring your dog inside to be part of the family. GSDs crave being with their family and you've got her stuck outside all by herself.
> 1: You're exposing her to danger. Your dog is already barking and hitting the fence when people come near. She is a time bomb to be poisoned or shot. She could be stolen or escape and get lost/killed
> ...


I guess I should have mentioned that she was in heat... Before she entered heat, she was freely able to go indoors or outdoors. One time, however, a relative came over and she lunged towards him and bit his pants.
She already knows sit and shake and will lie down/roll over when given a treat.


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## Jmc1985 (Nov 27, 2012)

How much exercise/mental stimulation is she getting? The GSD's I've met were active dogs who needed a job. If she's bored and underworked, I'm not surprised that she reacts negatively on leash. Something that might also help is private lessons with an animal behaviorist. That way the distractions could be slowly added and controlled more than a class environment, especially one held in a pet store.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

> When we're on a walk and she sees another dog, she gets extremely aggressive. When she first sees the other dog, her posture straightens and her ears go up. As the other dog gets closer, her tail goes up and she starts whining, barking, jumping, etc.


This doesn't sound like aggression to me, is she snarling and lunging? This sounds like she's just excited to see the other dog. Do you have any friends with nice, calm dogs that could come over and you could introduce them in a calm supervised manner? I would start working on obedience training pretty hard now, especially if she lunged at your friend. Confine or leash her when guests are over, use guests as a training tool and reward her for calm behavior when guests arrive. Start doing the "look at me training" I've conditioned Ammy with a kissing noise, when I make it she knows to look my way and pay attention. Start doing this in a low distraction environment and rewarding her, and once she is pretty good at that start taking her out and about with more distractions and asking her to pay attention to you. With exercise and training I think this will help!


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

You want to find a person with a very stable dog that won't react to anything just a very calm relaxed dog and start off far away, then get slowly closer if she starts reacting go back a little bit to before she started reacting and have her sit and focus on you (have a lot of treats with you). Every time she is calm then give her a treat try to get closer and closer as long as she is comfortable and not reacting. This might take awhile but slowly she will learn that other dogs aren't scary (which is probably why she acts aggressively). She could also have leash reactivate (not sure how to fix that someone else on here might know). Also if she is outside during heat I would actually move her inside...I would personally deal with the blood as opposed to her possibly getting pregnant that is the last thing you want. Is she at least in a secure fenced in area where NO other dog can get to? Also she needs to start seeing people (including your relative) as good things. Start having the people toss treats to her when the dog is ignoring the person. You want this all to go very slowly so the dog can get comfortable.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

gsdowner1 said:


> Right now she is confined outdoors because she is in heat, we don't really want blood dripping everywhere around the house.




^^^^This stopped me dead in my tracks. 

I will only say, my dachshund mix was the product of a dachshund in heat and confined in the yard. Rumor has it, she tied with a doberman, but no one really knows. I'm not sure what the confinement arrangement is, but a litter is certainly messier than a female pup in heat. I use diapers, crates and blankets when females are in heat, but they are never alone outside.



I agree, she sounds like a typical bored, underworked, undersocialized teenager and you would benefit from a more experienced trainer/behaviorist than one from PetSmart.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

You might want to get in touch with other GSD owners in your local area. It really sounds like you're misinterpreting a lot of normal puppy behavior that is a product of boredom and a desire to play and your puppy is the one who is suffering for it. If you can't get a handle on this dog now, when she is a puppy, how are you going to handle her when she is fully grown and under socialized? Is this situation really fair to her?

Please, either bring the dog inside to prevent it from being bred so young or contact a GSD rescue that can get her into a home that can provide for her needs. This story is already headed toward a sad conclusion for this poor puppy, through no fault of her own.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

This thread breaks my heart. Our dogs never go outside without us, we play frisbee upwards of 10x/day, we crawl on the floor every night playing & interacting in a fun way, we routinely play games such as sniffing out the hidden treat,me attended 5 classes for obedience lead by a highly trained & certified trainers & as I sit eating dinner our dogs are laying right next to us waiting for their time for loving after we eat.

People need to understand true ownership responsibility. Our lives are based around the dogs, not theirs only around our life nor are they a status symbol.


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## Doglover65 (Aug 10, 2013)

You said she isnt aloud in the house and stays in the backyard. That doesnt sound like a temporary situation because "shes in heat"

Buy a diaper, jeez. Shes aggressive because shes under socialized, and its going to be A LOT of work to start now. How sad... 

Can i ask where you got the puppy from? They may be able to help, but if its a byb id seek other sources. Id talk to a professional about this, i dont NOT recommend trying to socialize her alone. Shes very afraid, and may act out in her fear. 

Before i tell you how important it is that the puppy lives inside with you, may i ask why shes left outside in the first place? The real reason besides "shes in heat". Allergies, too much hair, no mess? 

As i already said, petsmart isnt the best place to be taking your puppy. I suggest looking at other training facilities/academies instead who have more knowledge and may be able to help. Make sure the methods they use are strictly positive as your girl is already afraid


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

gsdowner1 said:


> I guess I should have mentioned that she was in heat... Before she entered heat, she was freely able to go indoors or outdoors. One time, however, a relative came over and she lunged towards him and bit his pants.
> She already knows sit and shake and will lie down/roll over when given a treat.


Being in heat isn't a reason to throw her outside. It's not her fault.
Put some panties or a diaper on her. That's what I do with my bitch.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

HollowHeaven said:


> Being in heat isn't a reason to throw her outside. It's not her fault.
> Put some panties or a diaper on her. That's what I do with my bitch.


Why not spay? It's clear she isn't being used for SAR, agility, or any sport to prove better lineage for breeding at appropriate age.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Greater Swiss said:


> You've obviously missed some major socialization, and your only option now is to play catch-up (much harder with a 7 month old than with a little puppy!)..


yes, and even though it's not aggression, as your dog ages it will just become harder... and harder... and worse and worse. i'm playing catch-up with a one year old shelter dog right now. NOT FUN. i wish often that i could have raised her from puppyhood. She is not aggressive, she's desperate to see all the things she's been deprived of for so long. so many NEW PEOPLE and NEW DOGS and NEW PLACES YAY!!! that's how a puppy sees it. i wish my unsocialized shelter dog had the same attitude about the world; you're LUCKY. embrace it.

She probably lunged at the person IN PLAY. she's a PUPPY. dogs don't stop being puppies for TWO YEARS at least, generally.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

luv2byte said:


> Why not spay? It's clear she isn't being used for SAR, agility, or any sport to prove better lineage for breeding at appropriate age.


1: Because she's 7 months old
2: because an owner has the right to do as they like with their dogs.

There's nothing wrong with keeping your pet in tact if you're up to the task of keeping them from reproducing. 


However... OP obviously isn't.
This just now crossed my mind. OP, you threw your intact PUPPY outside in heat.
You are/will be soooooo lucky if she doesn't wind up pregnant. Males can come from miles around for a piece of that and will do whatever it takes. Nature will find a way. Perhaps it would be best you have her spayed immediately after she's out of heat. She needs to be inside ASAP.


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## Doglover65 (Aug 10, 2013)

luv2byte said:


> Why not spay? It's clear she isn't being used for SAR, agility, or any sport to prove better lineage for breeding at appropriate age.


Shes still young for spay, but that doesnt give the OP the excuse for leaving her outside at high risk of unwanted litters


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Here, watch this video. It's on leash reactivity, and using counterconditioning to help with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMLrYaoxNOs

Your dog sounds like she needs more exercise and mental stimulation. She doesn't sound aggressive, she sounds like she's super excitable... like way too excited when she sees other people/dogs. And even if she is more "aggressive", this works the same way.

You need to exercise her more and train her more.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I agree with everyone that she sounds under stimulated and under socialised. When she finally sees something new she just doesn't know what to do with herself and all the excitement.

A lot of people mistake mouthiness in large breed adolescent pups for aggression, rather than seeing it for what it is, an untrained puppy being a puppy. It can be intimidating (a 70lb 7 month old jumping in your face and putting teeth on you...) but there is no aggression behind it, just misguided playfulness.


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## gsdowner1 (Sep 8, 2013)

Kyndall54 said:


> This doesn't sound like aggression to me, is she snarling and lunging? This sounds like she's just excited to see the other dog. Do you have any friends with nice, calm dogs that could come over and you could introduce them in a calm supervised manner? I would start working on obedience training pretty hard now, especially if she lunged at your friend. Confine or leash her when guests are over, use guests as a training tool and reward her for calm behavior when guests arrive. Start doing the "look at me training" I've conditioned Ammy with a kissing noise, when I make it she knows to look my way and pay attention. Start doing this in a low distraction environment and rewarding her, and once she is pretty good at that start taking her out and about with more distractions and asking her to pay attention to you. With exercise and training I think this will help!


Yes, she snarls, lunges and just goes crazy.



kcomstoc said:


> You want to find a person with a very stable dog that won't react to anything just a very calm relaxed dog and start off far away, then get slowly closer if she starts reacting go back a little bit to before she started reacting and have her sit and focus on you (have a lot of treats with you). Every time she is calm then give her a treat try to get closer and closer as long as she is comfortable and not reacting. This might take awhile but slowly she will learn that other dogs aren't scary (which is probably why she acts aggressively). She could also have leash reactivate (not sure how to fix that someone else on here might know). Also if she is outside during heat I would actually move her inside...I would personally deal with the blood as opposed to her possibly getting pregnant that is the last thing you want. Is she at least in a secure fenced in area where NO other dog can get to? Also she needs to start seeing people (including your relative) as good things. Start having the people toss treats to her when the dog is ignoring the person. You want this all to go very slowly so the dog can get comfortable.


The dogs that she sees on our walks usually don't even notice her... She notices them and immediately goes into high alert/crazy mode.



luv2byte said:


> This thread breaks my heart. Our dogs never go outside without us, we play frisbee upwards of 10x/day, we crawl on the floor every night playing & interacting in a fun way, we routinely play games such as sniffing out the hidden treat,me attended 5 classes for obedience lead by a highly trained & certified trainers & as I sit eating dinner our dogs are laying right next to us waiting for their time for loving after we eat.
> 
> People need to understand true ownership responsibility. Our lives are based around the dogs, not theirs only around our life nor are they a status symbol.


So in other words, only people without jobs/school should own dogs...



HollowHeaven said:


> Being in heat isn't a reason to throw her outside. It's not her fault.
> Put some panties or a diaper on her. That's what I do with my bitch.


Our friend (the original owner) says its best to avoid diapers as they could cause skin problems. We know its not her fault for being in heat, we just don't want her dripping blood inside the house. Her being confined outside while in heat does not mean we don't interact with her... Also, are outdoor dogs unheard of on this forum?



luv2byte said:


> Why not spay? It's clear she isn't being used for SAR, agility, or any sport to prove better lineage for breeding at appropriate age.


She's a purebred and the original owner wants her to give birth eventually.



Kayota said:


> yes, and even though it's not aggression, as your dog ages it will just become harder... and harder... and worse and worse. i'm playing catch-up with a one year old shelter dog right now. NOT FUN. i wish often that i could have raised her from puppyhood. She is not aggressive, she's desperate to see all the things she's been deprived of for so long. so many NEW PEOPLE and NEW DOGS and NEW PLACES YAY!!! that's how a puppy sees it. i wish my unsocialized shelter dog had the same attitude about the world; you're LUCKY. embrace it.
> 
> She probably lunged at the person IN PLAY. she's a PUPPY. dogs don't stop being puppies for TWO YEARS at least, generally.


How is it not aggression? She lunges and barks extremely loudly the second she sees another dog. She also starts growling and clawing at the ground when the dog gets closer...


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## Roman Empire (Jul 14, 2013)

:banghead:

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## mrgoodkat (Oct 21, 2012)

gsdowner1 said:


> Yes, she snarls, lunges and just goes crazy.





gsdowner1 said:


> How is it not aggression? She lunges and barks extremely loudly the second she sees another dog. She also starts growling and clawing at the ground when the dog gets closer...


That's not aggression, as others have already stated. You just don't seem to listen. She just really, really, really wants to interact with the other dog, because she doesn't have much of a social life. Get the previous owner to come over with one of his calmer dogs and have them play around your yard together.




gsdowner1 said:


> So in other words, only people without jobs/school should own dogs...


Nobody said something like that and most members here are working/studying full-time. Including myself. That still is no excuse for neglecting your dog. If you don't have at least 2 hours a day to play with your dog than you shouldn't have one. You have to take her on walks, play fetch and flirt-pole, do some obedience training at home etc. All that takes up TIME. But it's a very rewarding experience. 




gsdowner1 said:


> Our friend (the original owner) says its best to avoid diapers as they could cause skin problems. We know its not her fault for being in heat, we just don't want her dripping blood inside the house. Her being confined outside while in heat does not mean we don't interact with her... Also, are outdoor dogs unheard of on this forum?


Dogs should be allowed to be with their family, even if they are outside dogs. And while it's annoying to have blood drops everywhere while she is in heat it's just one of things you have to live with when owning a dog. If that already annoys the crap out of you, what will happen if the puppy chews on something expensive? You gonna put her down?




gsdowner1 said:


> She's a purebred and the original owner wants her to give birth eventually.


Do you have papers to that effect? Grandparents, Great Grandparents etc? No offence, but it just sounds highly unlikely to me that a respectable breeder with all the necessary paperwork would give a pure-bred GSD as an outdoor dog to someone who doesn't have time. 
Breeding two random GSDs together doesn't make a pure-bred dog.




You need to get your dog socialized ASAP. Ask the original owner for help and spend some time with your dog. She will be almost impossible to handle when she is older if you don't act now.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

It might just be me, but I don't see how a responsible breeder would recommend keeping a dog in heat outside alone. That's just.... asking for trouble.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

gsdowner1 said:


> Our friend (the original owner) says its best to avoid diapers as they could cause skin problems. We know its not her fault for being in heat, we just don't want her dripping blood inside the house. Her being confined outside while in heat does not mean we don't interact with her... Also, are outdoor dogs unheard of on this forum?
> 
> 
> She's a purebred and the original owner wants her to give birth eventually.



She is going to get pregnant. Diapers will not cause skin problems. If you're that concerned, put a pad in a pair of panties, cut a hole for her tail and put them on her. She is going to get pregnant. And if she does, she could die very easily because she is a baby. Suck it up and bring this dog inside before a male ends up in your yard to get her. And don't think a fence will stop them.


Is he showing her? Is he competing with her? Will her title her? Health test her? Temperament test her? If she is aggressive, why would he breed an aggressive dog? There's absolutely no reason for breeding this poor dog unless he's doing all those thing. 



I cannot stop slamming my head against the desk.


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## misswolfy (Jul 13, 2013)

Maybe you should contact a rescue. It's clear your not the right home for this dog. She's not trained, not socializes, and throwing a dog outside all day while in heat is neglect. Maybe Looking into a cat or fish? They may be better suited for a hands off owner. The dog isn't aggressive, just needs someone to pay attention to it. 

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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Nothing said here sounds like an aggressive GSD at all. It sounds like a very intelligent, yet totally untrained, unsocialized and completely bored, starved for attention, GSD pup.

It really sounds like you're in over your head with this breed. Maybe you can find her a more suitable home and find a less active breed for yourself.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If she is aggressive (and I'm not saying she is; she just sounds like a typical big untrained puppy), WHY would you/her breeder want to breed from her? Temperment is inherited, if she has a temperment you don't like, that's a VERY good reason not to breed. 

Regardless, if she's left out unattended in the yard while in heat, she's going to get pregnant, and probably not by a pedigreed GSD. Big hairy mutt puppies are extremely hard to re-home, and especially if their mother has a bad temperment (and who know what daddy dog will be like). So have fun raising a dozen big puppies. I'm sure most of them will end up dead before a year old. IF she survives the birthing---not being full-grown, she could have complications.


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

gsdowner1 said:


> Yes, she snarls, lunges and just goes crazy
> 
> She's a purebred and the original owner wants her to give birth eventually.


I don't get this if this dog is aggressive as you say she shouldn't be bred. Are you using her to work any herding, or whatever GSD do?

This your first time owning a dog?

Socialization should start at 8weeks of age meeting people, training, meeting stable known vaccinated dogs who are well socialized too. actual puppy class. Petsmart is very hit or miss on if the trainer is good or not. 

Here's list of good dog trainers maybe one is in your state.
http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=4

If your not willing to deal with an in heat female then what are you going to do with mess with the puppies? They are going to be outside too? Puppies poo the mess from pup birth.. etc. 

I don't get why vets tell owners to keep their dog in a bubble till it's too late for good socialization! Dogs end up in shelters due to lack of socialization from young age.

I don't mind people keeping dog intact, but only if they're prepared and done their research. I used panties for my first dog she went in heat before we spayed her so we put them on her she didn't like it, but she got used to it eventually. She was spayed once she was done and OK to have it done.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Kayota said:


> yes, and even though it's not aggression, as your dog ages it will just become harder... and harder... and worse and worse. i'm playing catch-up with a one year old shelter dog right now. NOT FUN. i wish often that i could have raised her from puppyhood. She is not aggressive, she's desperate to see all the things she's been deprived of for so long. so many NEW PEOPLE and NEW DOGS and NEW PLACES YAY!!! that's how a puppy sees it. i wish my unsocialized shelter dog had the same attitude about the world; you're LUCKY. embrace it.
> 
> She probably lunged at the person IN PLAY. she's a PUPPY. dogs don't stop being puppies for TWO YEARS at least, generally.


I am also kind of in the same boat as you. I have a 7 year old shelter / rescue dog. he was found as a stray & taken to a shelter where he did horribly. He was pulled by cattle dog rescue & placed in a foster home for a year before I got him. The foster home was great but they didn't really have the experience to take him further (he hated leashes & they used to just let him go where ever he wanted & take him home when he didn't want to walk anymore & started fighting, as a result he was a bit overweight when I got him) so leash training was like if he was a young puppy getting their leash on for the first time. He did throw his tantrums & the typical stuff a dog with no leash experience does but with time & patience, he learned that the leash meant he got to go do fun things & the rest was easy after that.

Also I would like to say that I don't mind people keeping dogs intact either IF they are responsible ... which I am sorry for coming off as rude, but I don't think this person is, giving they keep their intact in heat dog outside because they are afraid off a little blood.

I am going to be frank & honest here for a moment, so I am sorry if this comes off as rude ... just a disclaimer.

I am active in rescue, there are 15 pages of dogs in ONE of the AC's in my city ALONE & half off them are puppies, most are GSDs or mixes. One of my dogs, Josefina was most likely from an "oops" litter, she was dumped on the door step of AC in a cage at 4 weeks old with with her three brothers ... no mom. They would have put them to sleep because they did not have the ffunds to care for puppies that young if they didn't have a mom or no one stepped up to take them right then & there. 

Luckily a nice woman who volunteered there did offer to take them & called the local SPCA who does have foster homes, & agreed to keep them until a more permanent foster situation could be found. If you think it is easy to "get rid" of puppies? think again, half of the puppies in shelters & animal controls all over the country are from people who probably thought the same thing, & ended up learning the hard way that there is a REASON good breeders have waiting lists. 

Please spay your dog as soon as you can (once she is out of heat), & then get with a good trainer to help you with her issues. Remember your dog is a (right now) hormonal, untrained, under socialized teenager, you need to help her through this!


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## Whistlejacket (Jul 26, 2012)

Wait, what. Your puppy is in heat, so your first reaction is to put her outside WHERE ALL THE MALES CAN GET TO HER?

What kind of logic is this?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I am also kind of in the same boat as you. I have a 7 year old shelter / rescue dog. he was found as a stray & taken to a shelter where he did horribly. He was pulled by cattle dog rescue & placed in a foster home for a year before I got him. The foster home was great but they didn't really have the experience to take him further (he hated leashes & they used to just let him go where ever he wanted & take him home when he didn't want to walk anymore & started fighting, as a result he was a bit overweight when I got him) so leash training was like if he was a young puppy getting their leash on for the first time. He did throw his tantrums & the typical stuff a dog with no leash experience does but with time & patience, he learned that the leash meant he got to go do fun things & the rest was easy after that.


Yeah, Faxon was like that at first too. I found it REALLY helped to walk her on the long line for about a week or two, gradually shortening it to a normal leash length. None of my neighbors minded her exploring their yards lol, and I think it helped her get more comfortable with the area and her new home. She still throws "tantrums" from time to time but she's doing better for sure.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

He used to throw horrid tantrums as in come up the leash at you tantrums when he couldn't "get his way" in going where he wanted to go. I know the foster home meant well, but they actually made my job harder then just having to habituate him to feeling the pressure & tug of the leash. I used one of those leads they use on greyhounds, its all one piece with a kind of half check at the end, its anti-slip so no matter how much he fought he wouldn't be able to pull out of it, but he also wouldn't hurt or choke him when he did have his moments either. 

I also used a long line in the form of a flexi (I know, I know ... LOL) but he wasn't a puller, in fact as soon as he felt any resistance on the leash at all he comes back to me, wanting to know what he should do. Though he is a smart dude, so it didn't take him long to learn where the end of the leash was & when he was approaching it. to this day, even when he is chasing something, & he hits the end, he will come back to me. because every time he comes back he gets a treat or praise ... or both. 

I love Buddy to death .... I really do, but this has steeled my resolve about NO more adult rescues. they have their advantages, but the cons IMHO outweigh the pros. even though they are both shelter / rescue dogs, there are things I can do with Josefina that I cant do with Buddy & it makes managing him in certain situations harder.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

Some things you just can't fix............oh, never mind.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Is this your first high energy working breed?

Your dog is not extremely aggressive. It's a normal under stimulated, unsocialized puppy.

Why not donate this dog to a working home, before it does bite someone and you end up in a lawsuit? She seriously needs much more training than you seem capable of handling. I'd be happy to help you find her a work home, if she passes evaluation.


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## gsdowner1 (Sep 8, 2013)

Roman Empire said:


> :banghead:
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If you're not going to post something useful, why bother posting at all?



mrgoodkat said:


> That's not aggression, as others have already stated. You just don't seem to listen. She just really, really, really wants to interact with the other dog, because she doesn't have much of a social life. Get the previous owner to come over with one of his calmer dogs and have them play around your yard together.


Today we were on a walk when we got near a park (NOT a dog park). Someone's dog wasn't on a leash and started walking toward our dog. My dog went into crazy mode and started lunging around/snarling/barking/jumping. While she was going crazy, she bit my pants. This is seriously not aggression?




mrgoodkat said:


> Nobody said something like that and most members here are working/studying full-time. Including myself. That still is no excuse for neglecting your dog. If you don't have at least 2 hours a day to play with your dog than you shouldn't have one. You have to take her on walks, play fetch and flirt-pole, do some obedience training at home etc. All that takes up TIME. But it's a very rewarding experience.
> 
> Dogs should be allowed to be with their family, even if they are outside dogs. And while it's annoying to have blood drops everywhere while she is in heat it's just one of things you have to live with when owning a dog. If that already annoys the crap out of you, what will happen if the puppy chews on something expensive? You gonna put her down?


Since when does "she isn't allowed inside and stays in the backyard" mean "we ignore her the entire day"?



mrgoodkat said:


> Do you have papers to that effect? Grandparents, Great Grandparents etc? No offence, but it just sounds highly unlikely to me that a respectable breeder with all the necessary paperwork would give a pure-bred GSD as an outdoor dog to someone who doesn't have time.
> Breeding two random GSDs together doesn't make a pure-bred dog.


We got it from a friend who wanted to keep her intact because he said she has good genes. 



ireth0 said:


> It might just be me, but I don't see how a responsible breeder would recommend keeping a dog in heat outside alone. That's just.... asking for trouble.


Does your backyard not have any type of fence or something?



KuroSaya said:


> I don't mind people keeping dog intact, but only if they're prepared and done their research. I used panties for my first dog she went in heat before we spayed her so we put them on her she didn't like it, but she got used to it eventually. She was spayed once she was done and OK to have it done.


No offense, but who are you to mind when people want to keep their dog intact?



Whistlejacket said:


> Wait, what. Your puppy is in heat, so your first reaction is to put her outside WHERE ALL THE MALES CAN GET TO HER?
> 
> What kind of logic is this?


I don't know what your backyard looks like, but my backyard has a thing called a fence.

Seriously, has no one on this forum heard of an outdoor/outside dog?


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

gsdowner1 said:


> If you're not going to post something useful, why bother posting at all?
> 
> 
> Today we were on a walk when we got near a park (NOT a dog park). Someone's dog wasn't on a leash and started walking toward our dog. My dog went into crazy mode and started lunging around/snarling/barking/jumping. While she was going crazy, she bit my pants. This is seriously not aggression?
> ...


You are asking for advice... but aren't seeming to really listen or even consider anyone's advice. There are a variety of dog owners here. I know at least one person has a primarily outside dog, there are several very responsible breeders here, and everything in between. Keeping your INTACT bitch outdoors simply because you do not want her dripping blood on the floor is an incredibly poor reason, and you are putting her at risk for getting pregnant. There are solutions to keeping your floor clean and also protecting your intact bitch.. An intact male dog WILL find a way into your yard, it happens all the time. How do you think all these "oops" litters happen? I'm willing to bet many "oops" litters happen because of poor supervision and simply leaving intact bitches outdoors like you are.


I'm also going to say again, your dog does NOT sound aggressive. She sounds extremely under socialized, and under stimulated, and under exercised. I have a dog who acts VERY reactive when she sees other dogs while she is on leash, it's because she isn't as socialized as she should be and we are working on it. But I would never call her aggressive because she "goes into crazy mode" as you put it around strange dogs. She bit your pant leg, likely out of excitement, not aggression.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> She bit your pant leg, likely out of excitement, not aggression.


Took the words out of my mouth! Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between aggression and excitement, especially if you haven't seen a lot of dog behavior. You should really start working on the look at me training, it will help immensely when you're out in public. Get a flirt pole to release some of her energy in the back yard before you go on another walk. Walks are important for her because she needs the socialization, just try and work out some of that built up energy. 

What does having good genes mean? German shepherds are highly prone to hip dysplasia. Gathering from other posters on here, it seems really hard to get a german shepherd even from a reputable breeder that doesn't have minor hip/health issues; apparently the breeding lines have been compromised a lot. That being said a german shepherd that ESPECIALLY hasn't had its hips tested shouldn't be bred (not to mention other health tests).

I posted on here earlier about diapers but I don't know if it went through, my puppy just went into heat as well. I bought a pair of diapers from walmart (I think for $14?), she's been bleeding pretty inconsistently but she doesn't mind wearing them that much, they don't irritate her skin at all.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> He used to throw horrid tantrums as in come up the leash at you tantrums when he couldn't "get his way" in going where he wanted to go. I know the foster home meant well, but they actually made my job harder then just having to habituate him to feeling the pressure & tug of the leash. I used one of those leads they use on greyhounds, its all one piece with a kind of half check at the end, its anti-slip so no matter how much he fought he wouldn't be able to pull out of it, but he also wouldn't hurt or choke him when he did have his moments either.
> 
> I also used a long line in the form of a flexi (I know, I know ... LOL) but he wasn't a puller, in fact as soon as he felt any resistance on the leash at all he comes back to me, wanting to know what he should do. Though he is a smart dude, so it didn't take him long to learn where the end of the leash was & when he was approaching it. to this day, even when he is chasing something, & he hits the end, he will come back to me. because every time he comes back he gets a treat or praise ... or both.
> 
> I love Buddy to death .... I really do, but this has steeled my resolve about NO more adult rescues. they have their advantages, but the cons IMHO outweigh the pros. even though they are both shelter / rescue dogs, there are things I can do with Josefina that I cant do with Buddy & it makes managing him in certain situations harder.


Yeah I feel you. It's worth it to me though, Faxon has been more a blessing than anything. She'll just flail around at the end of a leash if she doesn't want to go anywhere. I was going to get her a martingale but she has an excessively sensitive neck (the tiniest tug makes her cough) so I got her an H-style harness instead and made it somewhat tight and it pretty much does the same thing. She loves to be with me so I feel like it's a tough choice for her and I know that just coming to see me rewards her pretty well because she'll almost always follow if I crouch down and call to her. I once walked all the way around the block going to the end of the leash, crouching, calling and treating. My back hurt but it helped lol

When I got Faxon she was in heat so I made a diaper out of some panties and a pad, things most people have lying around if they are female or live with one. Free and easy.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

gsdowner1 said:


> Does your backyard not have any type of fence or something?


As many have already said; a fence is NOT going to prevent males from getting to her while in heat. They will find a way. They will do whatever they have to. All it takes is a second and your dog's life could be in danger. It happens all the time. 

We actually have by-laws here that female dogs in heat must be kept inside during their heat cycle to prevent exactly that.

Also to repeat what everyone has been telling you; what you are describing does NOT sound like aggressive behaviour. It sounds like under stimulation combined with an excited dog that needs activity and socialization. I work with shelter dogs with this problem ALL THE TIME. It is easy to mistake it for aggression if you don't know what you're looking for.


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## zack (May 27, 2013)

HollowHeaven said:


> You're fixin to be highly offended but...
> 
> PLEASE bring your dog inside to be part of the family. GSDs crave being with their family and you've got her stuck outside all by herself.
> 1: You're exposing her to danger. Your dog is already barking and hitting the fence when people come near. She is a time bomb to be poisoned or shot. She could be stolen or escape and get lost/killed
> ...


 Totally agree with you HollowHeaven,


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

As far as fences go. . .there is a young intact male ACD who visits my dogs (inside the fence) regularly. I've never see him actually go over the fence---so I don't know if he climbs or jumps---but it appears to be absolutely no problem for him. He just appears inside the fence randomly and suddenly, and my dogs, oddly, don't seem to care. But fortunately my female is spayed, and if she wasn't, I'd keep her inside while in heat, so this is barely a minor annoyance. But fences do NOT keep a determined male away from a female in heat, not at all. Unless she's in a secure kennel with a top cover and dig-proof bottom. 

If she's aggressive she does not have good enough genes to pass on. That's how more aggressive dogs are made.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Op, is this even your dog? Because you said the owner doesn't want her fixed.

I would whoop your butt if I found out you were throwing my in heat 7 month old outside by herself.


Male dogs are like a lot of human men. They will do whatever it takes to get some. They have a very basic, innate drive to reproduce. They can smell an in heat female a mile or more off. They will climb, dig, jump, tear through, chew through fences, I have known them to bust through screen doors and everything else. I have known poodles to mate with GSDs and redbones to mate with chihauhaus to get what they want. I know NEUTERED MALES who will TIE with a female, despite the fact they cannot do anything.


*If this dog is not being shown, competed with, titled, health tested (heart, hips, elbows, patellas, ears, eyes, etc) then she has no business being bred. You already cannot handle her.*



This is why so many people in animal welfare fields have lost their sanity and patience. i swear.



Op, it's unlikely your dog is aggressive. She may be dog aggressive. Same sex aggression is common in GSDs, but I doubt she is. 

1: Put some panties on the dog or a diaper and bring her inside before she gets pregnant and her behavioral problems increase. Make her a part of your family or get rid of her.
2: She need to be going on 1 or 2 45 minute - an hour walks a day. She needs mental stimulation as well. Sit down and take some time to train her to do things.
3: This is, overall, reactivity. Teach your dog a 'watch me' command and a 'leave it' command. Google the 'Look At That' game. 
4:* Your dog does not need to be bred from.* Don't be selfish. You don't have to have her fixed, all of my dogs are in tact, but you need to be 100% more responsible. Throwing her outside because you don't want to put a diaper on her is the most irresponsible, stupid thing you can do.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

My dog is a 6 month old St. Bernard/Beligian Malinois cross. He is a handful. IF he doesn't get enough stimulation, both physical and mental, he is an absolute PITA. When his needs are not met, he lets us know by barking, tearing things up, and getting nippy. When I'm not working him enough, sometimes he will throw a tantrum, like a toddler...except his tantrums may involve jumping and pulling on his leash or barking at me or even trying to nip me. If I did not know him better, if I wasn't familiar already with GSD's and if I didn't know other owners of breeds like these, I might, like the OP, be throwing my hands in the air and declaring my dog a "aggressive" dog. Instead, I'm smacking myself on the forehead for not meeting his needs and working to get back to doing so.

I can tell you, in the past week, I haven't been able to work my dog enough due to recovering from surgery and we've ALL suffered for it. I'm very much looking forward to getting back on our regular schedule. These dogs don't do well without a high amount of interaction with their owners. They need regular training sessions and exercise. They need to be worn out both mentally and physically regularly. And...at 7 months, you're at the teenaged stage where, just like human teenagers, they push boundaries and try to find out what you're made of. You have to show them that you are consistent and predictable and that rules are rules regardless of what fit they will throw.

These breeds are NOT for everyone. They do reward those, though, that are willing to rise to their challenges. Tossing a dog that is in heat (which is going through huge hormonal fluctuations that will make ALL of the above worse) is not even coming close to being prepared for the challenges of owning a breed like this.

Backyard, outside GSD's all too often end up missing out on socialization unless they have owners that take them out and work them regularly. All too often those GSD's end up in rescues or being euthanized. If you are not committed to working with your dog, daily, and meeting her needs, then please contact a rescue now before it is too late.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Highly suggest walking your dog at a different time of day. Early in the morning and later in the evening tend to be better times because there are less dogs. 

My husky/collie/shepherd mix is also dog reactive. He does exactly what you describe. He sounds and looks scary when he sees other dogs. I can promise you that despite his squirming, growling, barking, and jumping that he is both human and other dog friendly. Off leash- an angel. Walking with dogs he knows- perfectly fine. It's hard and not fun to deal with. Alas, I lack a fences in yard (he would jump a fence anyhow) and a long line or tie out isn't enough exercise for him. I walk at odd hours and turn around if I see another dog approaching our threshold. 

Excellent Kikopup video on training away from leash reactivity: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4vEayrRyB0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Q4vEayrRyB0
Look at That: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EdraNF2hcgA
German Shepherd Rescue: http://www.agsra.com/

Please consider these training options or relinquishing your pup to a rescue. Leash reactivity isn't fun to deal with especially when you MUST walk your dog out multiple times a day. I can tell you that your dog will only get crazier if left to herself most of the day in the backyard. I know mine turns into a nut without his walks and training. There is no shame in giving this dog up if she is too much for you.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I'm not going to comment on the outdoor/in season part of this. But I am going to comment on the behavior. This dog needs to be seen by a trainer...and a qualified one. Not some petsmart/petco wanna be or someone who loves dogs and just decided to be a trainer. You need to get off the internet looking for help and get someone to see the behavior in person. I wasn't going to say anything on this at all...but I think without seeing the behavior going on, we should be careful about telling this person what this is and how to deal with it. 

I see weak nerved, bad temperamented GSD every week at the training facility that I teach. Some are just over excited puppies and some are dogs who want to go start kicking some ass. Most of the GSDs I see come through there, I would trust about as far as I could throw. Some of them I won't touch because I know they have weak nerve threshhold and they will bite me if I push them too much in my CGC class (Petting, distractions, touching feet.) I have friends with well bred GSD and they are lovely, stable dogs. But, there are a large percent of the GSD population who are not lovely or stable. 

It's not right we're trying to tell her this is something versus something else without actually seeing the behavior in action. The biting of the pants...that's redirection. Because I can't see what is going on...I don't know if she's redirecting out frustration that she can't go and tear into the dog she's freaking out over or if it's frustration that she's just over-excited. 

Someone needs to see this behavior before we go and say it's nothing serious and something that can be fixed by watching videos on youtube. Get this dog to a trainer who is familiar with working breeds now.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> I'm not going to comment on the outdoor/in season part of this. But I am going to comment on the behavior. This dog needs to be seen by a trainer...and a qualified one. Not some petsmart/petco wanna be or someone who loves dogs and just decided to be a trainer. You need to get off the internet looking for help and get someone to see the behavior in person. I wasn't going to say anything on this at all...but I think without seeing the behavior going on, we should be careful about telling this person what this is and how to deal with it.
> 
> I see weak nerved, bad temperamented GSD every week at the training facility that I teach. Some are just over excited puppies and some are dogs who want to go start kicking some ass. Most of the GSDs I see come through there, I would trust about as far as I could throw. Some of them I won't touch because I know they have weak nerve threshhold and they will bite me if I push them too much in my CGC class (Petting, distractions, touching feet.) I have friends with well bred GSD and they are lovely, stable dogs. But, there are a large percent of the GSD population who are not lovely or stable.
> 
> ...


This is actually a really good point, particularly considering the OP's comment about the "breeder" wanting to keep the dog intact for later breeding. Any breeder who would give a breeding female to someone without experience with the breed and who isn't going to work or show the dog to proof them for breeding...is unlikely to be a good breeder. Even moreso if they are allowing a young breeding female to be left outside while in her first heat. All that sounds like a pretty bad BYB, which makes the likelihood of a poorly bred GSD with a bad temperment higher.

This situation is just so sad to me...it's hard for me to see straight in it. I think it's because I could easily see my own dog in a similar situation, in a different home.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Weak nerve strength and sharpness is not something you can train out of a dog. It's the core of the dog and you live with it the best you can. 

Once again, without seeing the behavior ...I don't know if that's the problem. Someone who understand things like nerve strength needs to see this dog in person. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## lego (Sep 13, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> I'm not going to comment on the outdoor/in season part of this. But I am going to comment on the behavior. This dog needs to be seen by a trainer...and a qualified one. Not some petsmart/petco wanna be or someone who loves dogs and just decided to be a trainer. You need to get off the internet looking for help and get someone to see the behavior in person. I wasn't going to say anything on this at all...but I think without seeing the behavior going on, we should be careful about telling this person what this is and how to deal with it.
> 
> I see weak nerved, bad temperamented GSD every week at the training facility that I teach. Some are just over excited puppies and some are dogs who want to go start kicking some ass. Most of the GSDs I see come through there, I would trust about as far as I could throw. Some of them I won't touch because I know they have weak nerve threshhold and they will bite me if I push them too much in my CGC class (Petting, distractions, touching feet.) I have friends with well bred GSD and they are lovely, stable dogs. But, there are a large percent of the GSD population who are not lovely or stable.
> 
> ...


So much THIS^^


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

MrsBoats said:


> This dog needs to be seen by a trainer...and a qualified one.


Not to mention, a vet. Especially in light of the appetite issue, I'd start there with some bloodwork and a physical before any further training is even considered. Preferably, a vet who also understands the importance of socialization and can explain the risks vs benefits of waiting while immunization takes effect.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> Weak nerve strength and sharpness is not something you can train out of a dog. It's the core of the dog and you live with it the best you can.
> 
> Once again, without seeing the behavior ...I don't know if that's the problem. Someone who understand things like nerve strength needs to see this dog in person.
> 
> ...


This is very, very true. We thought we were actually dealing with weak nerve strength and sharpness in Sam and were preparing to deal with it. We also had one trainer who reinforced this concern. However, getting him out and working with him, the trainers who were more familiar with these breeds of dogs actually told us that, while further in that direction on the spectrum than some other puppies, he was not to the point where it would be an ongoing issue if we handled it properly and then they proceeded to teach me how to handle it properly.

It takes someone with that kind of experience, which not all trainers have, to really see what's going on with the dog and be able to give you the best advice on how to handle it. I'd probably contact the local GSD breed club for a recommendation as my first step, if I didn't know my local dog community well enough to find that kind of person.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

My internal filter is going to come down for a second....

[vent]

This is probably my biggest issue with dog message boards. People are so quick to dish out training advice without *seeing* the undesirable behavior in question. It drives me absolutely nuts. There is so much being missed on what is really happening by not seeing what is going on with the dog. 

There should be serious caution exercised with giving training advice via message board for serious issues like this, or reactivity, aggression....whatever. You collectively need to see the behavior and what is happening around the dog before making an opinion on what the problem is and how it should be handled. Holy slippery slope...and god help someone if they take a piece of advice they get off of a message board and it back fires and they or someone else gets hurt because the advice giver completely misinterpreted what was really going on with the dog. After all, they have only the dog owner's interpretation of what's happening. Most people are not skilled at reading dog body language, let alone relay what is happening to the world wide web. There are times when qualified trainer needs to see what the hell is really going on with a dog. 

[/vent]


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Mrs. Boats, I see your point, in general terms. In this case I do think the OP is getting some pretty decent advice. At LEAST work on some socialization, if you feel you can't do that REHOME. Also spattered with some suggestions regarding finding a qualified trainer. Relatively safe. Far safer than "keep going as you are". 
I've been given (and seen) far more dangerous advice given on this, and other forums....for example regarding resource guarding. Approach and drop a treat in the dish while the dog is eating, or nearby. If the dog is really reactive, this can be dangerous, especially if the person doesn't have a good sense of their dog's body language. Dangerous perhaps, but less dangerous than letting the guarding continue...especially for those who are unwilling or unable to find a trainer, also potentially far better for the dog than euthanizing because it is aggressive. 

As for the biting the pants thing....OP, your dog is a puppy still (yeah, perhaps it looks full grown, but it's brain isn't!). Your dog has no hands, its mouth is its hands, so if it is trying to get you to let it go it might grab you, and it might be fairly hard, if she hasn't learned bite inhibition properly. Have you lost meat from your leg? If not, your dog probably didn't mean it that much. The GSD that I mentioned in my last post....he left me with a pretty significant set of scars on my arm. I still maintain that he was NOT truly aggressive, he was SCARED partially because he hadn't been exposed to lots of things and when something new and scary came up, he would react to defend himself because he had never learned that the human would defend him, or take care of him. Yes, he did react aggressively, but he did so because he was scared. He wouldn't have been so scared if he had been better socialized. 

If you intend on keeping the dog I really think you need to find a VERY experienced trainer or behaviorist (not just a vet) to help you with the socialization process if you don't feel you can do it safely on your own. 

By the way, when I was dealing with the GSD, I also had another foster, who had some guarding issues, as well as my own girl....I worked full time. It can be done, but your dog has to be part of your life all of the time when you are home, it is important to have a good bond and solid training with a dog, especially one that can grow as large as a GSD (not that small dogs don't need it, but I think we can all agree....the bigger the dog the bigger the bite if things go wrong). If you don't want to deal with this by at least consulting an expert (rather than an internet forum...though there are some here who have some expertise), then contact a breed specific rescue to help you rehome.


I just thought of another thing, here's an article to consider on having Too Much Dog. There is some information there that may be some good food for thought for you OP, there are other articles there as well, but this one might give you some insight into the kind of dog you have.


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## lego (Sep 13, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> My internal filter is going to come down for a second....
> 
> [vent]
> 
> ...


 Spot on. Thank you for pointing this out.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

HollowHeaven said:


> 1: Because she's 7 months old


I definitely prefer early s/n to irresponsible owners breeding, even unintentionally.



gsdowner1 said:


> Today we were on a walk when we got near a park (NOT a dog park). Someone's dog wasn't on a leash and started walking toward our dog. My dog went into crazy mode and started lunging around/snarling/barking/jumping. While she was going crazy, she bit my pants. This is seriously not aggression?
> 
> *No. She's reacting because she was never taught what to do when she saw new dogs, and she's redirecting her energy into biting your pants. *
> 
> ...


Answers in bold, OP. I'm a dog trainer, I've been working with reactive dogs (my own included!) for many years, including those in shelters and homes. Your dog is just reacting, she may or may not be actually aggressive. 

Take her to a park, take the best dog treats you can find that she LOVES. Sit. Wait for a dog to come around. If she starts reacting right away and you can't get her attention, create space between you two and the other dog. Increase in space until she can work for you. Ask for some sits, downs, hand/nose touches, focus on you, etc. ANYTHING and reward heavily with the treats that she loves. Do this frequently- every day if possible, and you will notice that it will start taking less space for her to be able to focus. When she does look at the other dogs and DOESN'T react, praise her with your marker word ("yes" or "good girl") and reward for that! You want her to know that the game is to pay attention to you or calmly look at the other dogs, NOT make a fool of herself. 

This will take time. I worked a few times a week with my German Shepherd for about 3-5 months before I saw improvement that made it manageable to take him around other dogs and not stress. BUT, it is possible. The more exercise you give her (not walks either, those don't do much!) the more tired and calm she will be and less likely to react, making training easier. Try a flirt pole (Kong makes them!) if you can get your hands on one, or fetch/Frisbee/tug in the yard with some basic obedience before you leave the house to get her attention on you and to take the edge off. 

Good luck.


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

MrsBoats said:


> My internal filter is going to come down for a second....
> 
> [vent]
> 
> ...


Good post Mrs boots! I so agree it's sad this person doesn't seem to take any advice though I have yet to see this person say I'm going to find a behaviorist or an actual dog trainer. 

So again since this person didn't read my full message



> Socialization should start at *8weeks* of age meeting people, training, meeting stable known vaccinated dogs who are well socialized too. actual puppy class. Petsmart is very hit or miss on if the trainer is good or not.
> 
> Here's list of good dog trainers maybe one is in your state.
> http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=4


See that 8Weeks socialization does not begin at age 5months 1year or 2 years 8 weeks. Yes socialization can be done when the dog is older, but if you get a puppy you should do proper socialization. 

I mean what age did you start puppy class? 



> No offense, but who are you to mind when people want to keep their dog intact?


I don't see why you even say no offense as you do mean offense. 

Many others have said to spay your dog not just me. 

Your posting this on a public message board you are going to get different opinions on things it's not our fault you won't show us a video of this supposedly aggressive behavior. 

Shiba inu are very mouthy breed and as puppies even more mouthy. Biting hair, pants, hands, legs causing blood, bruises etc. Have you worked any on bite inhibition and no biting all together? 

I mean really if your so inexperienced with owning a dog you don't have enough experience to breed one. 

Why haven't your breeder helped you on this? 

Breeding takes more then just letting two dogs have at it you should consider their temperament and at least test them for health issues are you going to do all the needed health tests GSD need? 

GSD do have health issues. 

You say fence will stop it I guess you never heard term UFP. before I know of a cause where a litter happened between a shiba and an Tamaskan wolf dog do some searching and you'll know the breeder I'm talking about.. 

I've heard from actual people not fake it has happened a male dog broke through their window to get to their female glass everywhere luckily wounds were not too bad. 

Dogs can dig well this what people means how it isn't good for inheat dog to be outside alone. 

Fences are great, but can be dugged under some fences can be climbed etc. 

You don't have to take advice if you don't want to. Then why did you post for help if you have no intentions of listening.

Biting you could be different things it could be due to frustration, redirection, excitement and many other things. 

If you ever seen two dogs in a fenced yard a dog walker or kids walked by the two fenced dogs are running along the fence excited and probably mad about intruder being near. 

The frustrated dog can't get at the intruder so it redirects at the other dog. 

Just an example I'm sure someone else could give a better one. 

*Again search for a more better trainer petsmart is good and all, but can be hit or miss a better trainer could work with the owner to get the dog conditioned to not be so impulsive or reactive.

This link has list of trainers by state you can search via google if you don't find anyone. 
http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=4
*
Most of us here are average dog owners, breeders, trainers or whatever, but even if a poster her is a trainer help can't really do much due to such low information on the issue. 

My best advise again find a behaviorist or trainer to help in person.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

FWIW, redirection bites are more common then you might think, all the bites I have gotten from dogs were redirection bites ... Only one or two were bite from what I would call a "truly" aggressive dog.

I know it sounds like a lot of people are picking on you, but they are really just thing to help.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Male dogs will do ANYTHING they can to get to your dog including digging under the fence to going over the fence...they can do almost anything to get to the female in heat. Please put your dog inside....if it was a choice between having my dog have puppies or deal with some blood on my floor I think I'd deal with the blood seriously....it just doesn't make sense to me. Also nobody is condemning you for putting your dog outside we don't think it's evil...it's just VERY irresponsible while she's in heat because she can EASILY get pregnant. I know HH has a strictly outside dog but I know they give their dog plenty of mental and physical stimulation, also this dog should NOT be getting bred so regardless of what that other owner wants they are not a responsible breeder so I would spay you dog. Also I know some of us on here have intact dogs but they take precautions when they go into heat by putting diapers on the dog or keeping the dog inside or keeping them on a leash so they can't get away to impregnate another dog. Please put a diaper on her inside and please do the responsible thing and don't breed your dog...we don't need anymore puppies that have health issues because there is NO way this puppy was health checked (I DON'T mean vet checked)


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> I definitely prefer early s/n to irresponsible owners breeding, even unintentionally.





> There's nothing wrong with keeping your pet in tact if you're up to the task of keeping them from reproducing.
> 
> 
> However... OP obviously isn't.


In this case, I agree with you.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I know there are a few members here who have strictly outside dogs, myself included (I have had LGD's before) & even my "pet" dogs stay outside during the day & only come inside when the weather is too cold or when no one is home. Even with a fenced yard, I still don't feel comfortable leaving my bunch outside when no one is here.

It is also worth mentioning that males hav been known to mate with females THROUGH fences.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

It's not just about keeping males out... Females when they ready to be bred, are intense too about finding their way out of a fence. Its' only for a few days of of the full heat cycle, so don't be fool'd that they all content staying in the backyard when they are not ready to be bred..  having 6ft fencing and double fencing for my grew only works because they don't want to get out. Not because they can't


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## mrgoodkat (Oct 21, 2012)

gsdowner1 said:


> We got it from a friend who wanted to keep her intact because he said she has good genes.


That's the second worst reason for breeding a dog. Right after "But she is the best dog ever!"


Most people here couldn't care less if an owner has an intact dog or not. But breeding should only be done by people who know what they are doing from a health tested and shown stock. Especially GSDs, their gene pool is already so limited and they are prone to more inherited problems than you can count. Having your friend breed her because "She has good genes" is just going to produce a litter that will end up in a shelter. That's an attitude that's quite common here in China. Everybody and there mother is breeding their dogs at home because "She is so beautiful" and a bunch of other stupid reasons.
I'd say 99% of the members here think you a moron for even considering it. A dog that is not worked/shown and not bred for the improvement of the race should be spayed. Easy as that.


If you tell us in which area you are living, someone with more experience might offer you to come over with his or her dogs and have a play day with your dog and show you how to handle her. Our two-legged members seldom bite anyone


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

mrgoodkat said:


> A dog that is not worked/shown and not bred for the improvement of the race should be spayed. Easy as that.


I wouldn't go as far to say 'should be spayed' but I would without hesitation say "should not be bred under any circumstances and should be spayed if this isn't possible."


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

Good grief. There was no part of my post that mentioned money, the things we've done & do w our dogs take time, not money. Perfect example is playing, stimulating & integrating our pets in our home. 

Not spaying is owner choice just as it's an illogical one to put a female in heat OUTSIDE unsupervised (meaning eyes on her 100% of the time, fenced or not) but there is no reason to breed her if she is or won't be titling in something to show she is an exception to her breed that should be continued. My eskie is beautiful w an amazing (understatement actually) temperament, I spayed her at 6mo of age. Why? She isn't show quality, and her only title is CGC.

Your original post was callous & unintelligent - which is obvious from all the responses to to it voicing disdain.

And if she had such "good genes" there wouldn't be such glaring behavior issues aside from the neglect the poor thing is receiving.


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## mrgoodkat (Oct 21, 2012)

KodiBarracuda said:


> I wouldn't go as far to say 'should be spayed' but I would without hesitation say "should not be bred under any circumstances and should be spayed if this isn't possible."


In my experience most owners who don't breed professionally have almost no ability or will to prevent an unwanted litter withan unfixed dog. That's why I said it should be spayed. But maybe that's just because I'm living in China. There might be more responsible owners in other countries who can handle intact dogs without getting them pregnant. But if that were true, then there wouldn't be places with mandatory spay and neuter laws 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

mrgoodkat said:


> In my experience most owners who don't breed professionally have almost no ability or will to prevent an unwanted litter withan unfixed dog. That's why I said it should be spayed. But maybe that's just because I'm living in China. There might be more responsible owners in other countries who can handle intact dogs without getting them pregnant. But if that were true, then there wouldn't be places with mandatory spay and neuter laws
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


There aren't places like that in America. I have owned numerous intact males for years without breeding them or letting them breed. A lot of responsible dog owners exist that aren't breeders with intact dogs in the us.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> There aren't places like that in America. I have owned numerous intact males for years without breeding them or letting them breed. A lot of responsible dog owners exist that aren't breeders with intact dogs in the us.


Key word is " responsible"


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> There aren't places like that in America.


And boy am I thankful for that.
So glad to have control over my property. I love them, but they are my property. None of my three have ever reproduced. They're 9, 6 and 5.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

HollowHeaven said:


> And boy am I thankful for that.
> So glad to have control over my property. I love them, but they are my property. None of my three have ever reproduced. They're 9, 6 and 5.


And you have two males and a female! Impossible!


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## jedonspring (Jun 9, 2013)

Some people shouldn't have dogs. Or children. JMO.


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

As everyone else mentioned, your dog doesn't sound at all agressive but just hyper and overexcited to the point of being wild. That it a normal response for any puppy who is left outside. Especially a working breed like a shepherd. While in heat is probably the worst time to abandone her outside. Get her some diapers, bring her in and then have her spayed. 
Honestly, while I could give you endless tips on helping this situation, the fact that you allowed it to get to this shows that you really can't be bothered to take proper care of her. I'm not trying to offend you, but please just rehome the poor pup with someone who will actually meet her needs.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> As everyone else mentioned, your dog doesn't sound at all agressive but just hyper and overexcited to the point of being wild. That it a normal response for any puppy who is left outside. Especially a working breed like a shepherd. While in heat is probably the worst time to abandone her outside. Get her some diapers, bring her in and then have her spayed.
> Honestly, while I could give you endless tips on helping this situation, the fact that you allowed it to get to this shows that you really can't be bothered to take proper care of her. I'm not trying to offend you, but please just rehome the poor pup with someone who will actually meet her needs.


I hate to agree but that's what I am starting to think about this situation as well.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> As everyone else mentioned, your dog doesn't sound at all agressive but just hyper and overexcited to the point of being wild. That it a normal response for any puppy who is left outside. Especially a working breed like a shepherd.


I'd bet that there was pant biting when the puppy was 2-3 months old and it was REALLY CUTE at the time.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

DJEtzel said:


> There aren't places like that in America.


Do you mean you think there's no mandatory spay/neuter in America? Because lots of cities/towns/counties have mandatory spay/neuter ordinances.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Do you mean you think there's no mandatory spay/neuter in America? Because lots of cities/towns/counties have mandatory spay/neuter ordinances.


Where? I have never experienced a mandatory spay neuter ever.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Where? I have never experienced a mandatory spay neuter ever.


Los Angeles County (and by extension City), CA
Sacramento, CA
Volusia County, FL
Denver, CO 
Dallas, TX

There's at least a half dozen more, but I can't remember them all. Most mandatory spay and neuter laws allow for certain exemptions (though some have zero tolerance) but many make it really difficult to qualify for those exemptions.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Emmett said:


> Los Angeles County (and by extension City), CA
> Sacramento, CA
> Volusia County, FL
> Denver, CO
> ...


The closest thing we have here is most of the shelters & AC's have mandatory spay & neuter policies on adopted animals


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

So... on the topic of redirections....



OP, you really need to see a trainer (and a good trainer). Because otherwise stuff like this happens, from dogs that are frustrated, overstimulated, and underworked. This bite was NOT the result of aggression. This bite was the result of a poorly bred, frustrated, redirecting dog. And it is something that could have been helped a lot while the dog was younger, like the age of your dog.

And let me tell you- its a really, really obnoxious healing process 

(and second, third, and fourth everything that Mrs. Boats said. seriously.)


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Emmett said:


> Los Angeles County (and by extension City), CA
> Sacramento, CA
> Volusia County, FL
> Denver, CO
> ...


not sure about Denver CO ,, had thought some of the surrounding areas in within their city limits were set up that you had to pay an unreasonable amount to licence an unaltered dog. but you could still have one if you didn't mind the cost.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Rescued said:


> So... on the topic of redirections....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would cross out the poorly bred ..... this happens to the best of bred dogs when needs don't get met..


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I have outside dogs. My outside dogs are spayed and neutered. They are LGD's and the last thing I need is a litter of coydogs running around. I know that the last thing you want OP is to have the dog ruining your furniture and carpeting inside. If I lived within the city I would suggest keeping the dog in a crate indoors. Fences do not stop a male or a female dog from escaping or entering your yard. Hopefully at 7 months of age you do not breed her just yet. If your intent is to breed her at the very least have her hips x-rayed prior to her being bred. Hip dysplasia is rampant in this breed. So do this breed a favor and have her hips x-rayed. 


For the lunging at other dogs and people. I think you need to go somewhere other than Petsmart for training advice. See if there are trainers in your area who do private lessons and have worked with this type of situation before. It is good that you are trying to stop the behavior now. These types of dogs need consistent work/training.. If you feel you can not follow through with this, I would suggest calling the breeder and returning the dog back to the breeder. If possible I would rather see the dog re-homed to a home/owner who would/has worked with this type of behavior before. It can be very frustrating to deal with a dog like what you are describing. Owning a dog should be a joy and not frustration. There are owners out there who see it as a challenge to work with these dogs and do enjoy working through this to see the end result. If you feel that you are going to be the owner who get frustrated with the dog, I strongly suggest to re-home the dog. If you do decide to keep the dog remember this type of behavior will take time, patience to work through. This breed of dog requires owners to be active. 

I would wait till the dog is out of heat to continue with the training or the walks. It will be only a couple of weeks. It is her first heat and some dogs just get goofy/bitchy while they are in heat.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Rescued said:


> So... on the topic of redirections....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You guys see that?? This is the reality of what I was venting about earlier in this thread...this isn't "oh, my dog can't walk on a loose leash" where Kikopup (who everyone seems to think is the second coming of Christ or something) videos could be helpful. 

I'll say it again, it's not right that people try to speculate and guess what might be the issue with a dog they can't observe themselves...and it's even less right to give advice based on a guess of dog behavior you can't witness yourself. 

If the behavior is serious where someone or something is going to get hurt and it can't be seen and observed first hand...don't play armchair trainer. Tell the person to get their dog to an actual trainer.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

not to mention obnoxious healing process (I've been teetering around on crutches while trying to deal with an 80 lb lab pup that hasn't been exercised in two weeks due to the bite, and no, it was not a bite from my nug or any assistance dog) but there is all kinds of paperwork and legal stuff to deal with- luckily this bite happened at work for me and so everything was covered and the dog was UTD on vax and everything...

but this is what happens when we have poorly bred, nervy working breeds that redirect.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Rescued said:


> but this is what happens when we have poorly bred, nervy working breeds that redirect.


Yup...and it can be dangerous in the hands of people who don't know how to correctly address it and make the life long commitment to manage it (and please note I didn't say train the behavior out) 24/7.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

PatriciafromCO said:


> not sure about Denver CO ,, had thought some of the surrounding areas in within their city limits were set up that you had to pay an unreasonable amount to licence an unaltered dog. but you could still have one if you didn't mind the cost.


Last I heard this was the provision:

Ord. No. 999-95, Sec. 8-71. It shall be unlawful to own, possess or keep in the city any dog or cat over the age of six (6) months that has not been spayed or neutered.

Of course, laws frequently change so things could have been amended since then. Coincidentally, ALL breeding is illegal within city limits. You can pay for an "intact permit" but there is some sort of approval process and my understanding is that unless there is a verifiable medical reason the permits are invariably denied. I don't live there, just have a family friend that does so my information should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Emmett said:


> Last I heard this was the provision:
> 
> Ord. No. 999-95, Sec. 8-71. It shall be unlawful to own, possess or keep in the city any dog or cat over the age of six (6) months that has not been spayed or neutered.
> 
> Of course, laws frequently change so things could have been amended since then. Coincidentally, ALL breeding is illegal within city limits. You can pay for an "intact permit" but there is some sort of approval process and my understanding is that unless there is a verifiable medical reason the permits are invariably denied. I don't live there, just have a family friend that does so my information should be taken with a grain of salt.


Thanks Emmett that is really interesting,, never lived in the city limits.. to know how far things have gone... last I heard you could only have like 3 dogs was the only imposed limitation... I live in a county that is is legal to own a known aggressive dog, who has a history of attacking people.. as so long as they are kept in a very specified containment... "that blew me away...


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Yow that looks painful! Hope you get to healing up soon!


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

MrsBoats said:


> You guys see that?? This is the reality of what I was venting about earlier in this thread...this isn't "oh, my dog can't walk on a loose leash" where Kikopup (who everyone seems to think is the second coming of Christ or something) videos could be helpful.
> 
> I'll say it again, it's not right that people try to speculate and guess what might be the issue with a dog they can't observe themselves...and it's even less right to give advice based on a guess of dog behavior you can't witness yourself.
> 
> If the behavior is serious where someone or something is going to get hurt and it can't be seen and observed first hand...don't play armchair trainer. Tell the person to get their dog to an actual trainer.


Mrs. Boats, people here are telling the Op to find a good trainer. Also many here are assuming (and rightfully so IMO) that like many new dog owners the Op is overreacting to puppy antics and calling it aggression when it is likely fear, excitement and undersocialization. I am however very glad that picture was posted saying that it was a redirect. It has been understated the seriousness of behavior like this. As far as Kikopup goes, her methods are sound, especially with a dog like this where any negative reinforcement could make matters worse. Yes they need a trainer to help, or perhaps a behaviorist, but so far the Op has shown no interest in that. I get your points Mrs. Boats, and completely agree, but the tone is that everyone making suggestions are...... Well...... Idiots. No need to be harsh about it. 
I wish the Op would post and let us know how they intend on dealing with things.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Ouch, Rescued! I have been a victim of a redirect bite, but it was on the arm (the dog came up the leash at me) & his canines punctured my forearm, the injury looked much like the one on your leg. Luckily the dog wasn't a mean one, just a DA, overstimulated puppy, so as soon as he realized he had ME ... he let go. 

the lesson I learned? Don't push dogs over their threshold ... lol.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

gsdowner1 said:


> One time, however, a relative came over and she lunged towards him and bit his pants.


 By my definition, ^ THAT'S aggression.



gsdowner1 said:


> Someone's dog wasn't on a leash and started walking toward our dog. My dog went into crazy mode and started lunging around/snarling/barking/jumping. While she was going crazy, she bit my pants.


 By contrast, ^ THAT'S redirected aggression. But it's still aggression nonetheless.



MrsBoats said:


> But, there are a large percent of the GSD population who are not lovely or stable.


 FWIW, underscore.



MrsBoats said:


> ...don't play armchair trainer. Tell the person to get their dog to an actual trainer.


 Double underscore.



Greater Swiss said:


> I'd bet that there was pant biting when the puppy was 2-3 months old (...)


I'd bet that, more recently, there's been the use of a prong or choke. Again .. FWIW.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

MrsBoats said:


> You guys see that?? This is the reality of what I was venting about earlier in this thread...this isn't "oh, my dog can't walk on a loose leash" where Kikopup (who everyone seems to think is the second coming of Christ or something) videos could be helpful.
> 
> I'll say it again, it's not right that people try to speculate and guess what might be the issue with a dog they can't observe themselves...and it's even less right to give advice based on a guess of dog behavior you can't witness yourself.
> 
> If the behavior is serious where someone or something is going to get hurt and it can't be seen and observed first hand...don't play armchair trainer. Tell the person to get their dog to an actual trainer.


The video I posted wasn't about loose leash walking, it was to help redirect the dog's attention to stop barking and lunging. The advice I gave worked for my dog, who becomes outright vicious around certain dogs. He has not redirected onto me, but he's also probably 10 times more stable than this dog.
OP came here for advice and opinions, and s/he got them. 
I agree that OP needs to call in a positive trainer and a behaviorist but until then, maybe they can get off their hind end and use some of the advice here to try and ease up on the situation. 
or they can just continue to let the dog lay in the backyard and let her keep lunging and loosing her mind.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I'm being blunt because this thread infuriates me. I'm not posting for the OP. I'm posting for the umpteen hundreds of guests who are going to find this thread because they did a search on "Aggressive German Shepherds." I had said my two cents on page three and I was going to walk away. But, then I see on page 4, we're back to 



> As everyone else mentioned, your dog doesn't sound at all agressive but just hyper and overexcited to the point of being wild. That it a normal response for any puppy who is left outside.


OMG!!!!!!! That's when I went nuclear. 

There's seems to be an attitude in the dog world that everything dog is this happy utopia where if you love your dog enough, any behavioral problem can be fixed. With enough love, every dog can enjoy a normal existence of dog parks and play dates. 

That's not true...there are dogs who are haunted by demons no amount training can fix. Those are the dogs who have weak nerves, bad temperaments, high fight/defense drives. The most dangerous dogs are those with both high fight/defense drive and weak nerves....they are the ones who will "shoot first" and not ask any questions. That dog will never, ever be a normal, happy dog no matter how much positive training you put into the dog. There are many GSD like that who fall into the hands of people who are ill prepared to deal with that...and then they end up with trainers who are just as ill prepared to deal with a dog like that. Nervy working breeds need trainers who understand this sort of dog behavior...and that usually means trainers who work Schutzhund, ring sport, and stuff like that. People who belong to GSD clubs understand dogs with these sorts of temperaments. 

It's as irresponsible for arm chair trainers to give advice on things of this severity without seeing the dog in action as it is for someone to leave an in season bitch out in the yard unsupervised.


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

> No need to be harsh about it.


Why not be harsh? Sometimes it is good to be blunt or harsh..

I am pretty tired of people seeking behavioral advise with aggressive dog on a forum instead of searching for a proper trainer.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Message boards ought to treat threads about this sort of behavior just like they would a thread about "My dog has had projectile bloody diarrhea for the last 5 days. What should I do?" It should be closed and the poster be told see a real life trainer.

And I'm going to edit this and add something. While I am not posting just for the OP who I'm considering a lost cause...I am posting for the masses who will see this because they could be dealing with aggression issues themselves. It's not just GSD who can be unstable and weaked nerved. Unstable dogs are serious business...and it gets even more serious as the dog's size and strength increases. 

This is a great read - http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/behavior/108732-baby-vs-two-year-old-whats-difference-dog.html

Unstable dogs are not normal dogs....nor will they ever be.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

KuroSaya said:


> Why not be harsh? Sometimes it is good to be blunt or harsh..
> 
> I am pretty tired of people seeking behavioral advise with aggressive dog on a forum instead of searching for a proper trainer.


There is no reason not to be blunt and to the point, but there is a perfectly good reason not to be harsh...people won't listen. The minute you start barking, lecturing, belittling, discounting and insulting people will tune you out. That goes not just for the posters of any thread, but for any hapless Googlers who may stumble upon it. In real estate they say location, location, location. Anyone who is remotely effective at trying to educate and persuade knows that delivery, delivery, delivery is the key.

There are members on this forum who have tons of experience and who I am sure could give invaluable and insightful advice, but because of their tone, (occasional) condescension and judgemental attitudes I simply choose not to read what they have to say. I'm sure there are people who appreciate that brutal style, but if you're trying to reach the masses it is better to err on the side of honey and not vinegar.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm sorry, but I hear this description day in and day out from people looking to take classes, but who think that their dog is going to kill anyone or anything that comes near it (and a lot of them are GSDs lately!) and I haven't met one yet who was an unstable mess that couldn't be fixed with redirection and positive reinforcement. Especially a dog this young... I don't understand what the harm is in offering safe training techniques after trainers have obviously been recommended?


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

The harm is that a person will opt to deal with the undesirable behavior themselves armed with videos and advice from people who have not witnessed the behavior and the dog in person. They don't need to spend all of that money on a trainer!! They can fix it all themselves because it worked for so and so with their dog who is actually a hyper puppy. 

So, if someone does get injured by the aggressive dog after the online advice is given and attempted by the dog owner...who's liable for the damages? I'm quite sure Rescued isn't okay with the big gaping holes in her leg she has now from the bag of nerves dog that did it and its owner.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

The dog has already bitten at least twice. The op describes the situations as EXTREMELY aggressive. And unlike us, they have had a first-hand vantage point. I'd accept their interpretation over others who think it's just playful, excited puppy behavior. 

Considering the element of public safety and all, I too firmly believe this is one of those cases that transcends 'blind' internet advice. Thus a personal visit to a good trainer is recommended. DJ, as a trainer yourself I'm surprised that you don't agree.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

MrsBoats said:


> Message boards ought to treat threads about this sort of behavior just like they would a thread about "My dog has had projectile bloody diarrhea for the last 5 days. What should I do?" It should be closed and the poster be told see a real life trainer.
> 
> And I'm going to edit this and add something. While I am not posting just for the OP who I'm considering a lost cause...I am posting for the masses who will see this because they could be dealing with aggression issues themselves. It's not just GSD who can be unstable and weaked nerved. Unstable dogs are serious business...and it gets even more serious as the dog's size and strength increases.
> 
> ...


Ms Boats- is this the same dog from the "Doza bites" thread you posted one time?!?!?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

MrsBoats said:


> The harm is that a person will opt to deal with the undesirable behavior themselves armed with videos and advice from people who have not witnessed the behavior and the dog in person. They don't need to spend all of that money on a trainer!! They can fix it all themselves because it worked for so and so with their dog who is actually a hyper puppy.
> 
> So, if someone does get injured by the aggressive dog after the online advice is given and attempted by the dog owner...who's liable for the damages? I'm quite sure Rescued isn't okay with the big gaping holes in her leg she has now from the bag of nerves dog that did it and its owner.
> 
> ...


The person is already trying to deal with it themselves by coming here. We recommended trainers- next we should completely ignore her so that she has no idea how to try to prevent the behavior or change it in the mean time, if a trainer is not feasible TODAY? Sorry, I don't buy that. I'm not going to give advice that could harm someone, but I'm also not going to shy away from giving advice because the dog may be better/worse than it sounds and could bite someone. Every dog could bite someone. Some people exaggerate their view of the dog and some are modest about it- I'm sure it has happened plenty of times here, but that is their own liability, coming to the internet for advice on anything. Someone could come here downplaying real aggression signs and we may recommend the same thing. It is not our fault if that dog bites someone. 

You seem to be throwing out words like unstable, aggressive, nervy, weak, etc. as if they have no meaning. Should I remind you that you haven't seen this dog, or the others that you're talking about, either? 



petpeeve said:


> The dog has already bitten at least twice. The op describes the situations as EXTREMELY aggressive. And unlike us, they have had a first-hand vantage point. I'd accept their interpretation over others who think it's just playful, excited puppy behavior.
> 
> Considering the element of public safety and all, I too firmly believe this is one of those cases that transcends 'blind' internet advice. Thus a personal visit to a good trainer is recommended. DJ, as a trainer yourself I'm surprised that you don't agree.


I said that I completely recommended the trainer, but the OP already has scheduled to have private lessons with a trainer and was coming here for secondary help. 

I'm not sure where I see the dog has bit two people? I went back and re-read everything... She is described the dog as VERY aggressive... which entails barking, jumping, lunging and whining. Not snapping, though growling was mentioned once... She was free to come and go in the house and ran at a guest and bit his _pants_ once... Doubt a nervey/unstable aggressive GSD would have stopped at the pants... and this was a 6 month old? Recently she bit the owners pants in the park while redirecting her excitement... still no skin bites/blood draw even, which is common from dogs that size when they're excited and mouthing, even. So yes, I feel this is made out to sound much worse than it is, just like 9 out of 10 dogs I meet. I don't think that "look at that" training can harm anything along with the trainer working with the OP in person.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I know I haven't seen the dog and that's why I said this - 



> Once again, without seeing the behavior ...I don't know if that's the problem. Someone who understand things like nerve strength needs to see this dog in person.


I own a dog that leans on the "sharp" side of the spectrum. He's been like that since the day I brought him home at 10 weeks. He thinks there are viable threats out in the world when there are not. I know he would take matters into his own hands if i allowed him to. I manage him in certain situations and I don't ever expect him to be like my more confident older boy. I would set myself and him up to fail if I did. 




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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Rescued said:


> Ms Boats- is this the same dog from the "Doza bites" thread you posted one time?!?!?


Yes...the one and the same.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

MrsBoats said:


> That's not true...there are dogs who are haunted by demons no amount training can fix. Those are the dogs who have weak nerves, bad temperaments, high fight/defense drives. The most dangerous dogs are those with both high fight/defense drive and weak nerves....they are the ones who will "shoot first" and not ask any questions. That dog will never, ever be a normal, happy dog no matter how much positive training you put into the dog. There are many GSD like that who fall into the hands of people who are ill prepared to deal with that...and then they end up with trainers who are just as ill prepared to deal with a dog like that. Nervy working breeds need trainers who understand this sort of dog behavior...and that usually means trainers who work Schutzhund, ring sport, and stuff like that. People who belong to GSD clubs understand dogs with these sorts of temperaments.
> 
> It's as irresponsible for arm chair trainers to give advice on things of this severity without seeing the dog in action as it is for someone to leave an in season bitch out in the yard unsupervised.


Well, we can't say OPs dog is one of those either and we really have no evidence to believe she is vicious - although it is possible. There is no bite history against dog or person, no abuse or trauma we've heard about. No teeth baring, and she is still a puppy. We've just heard about lots of barking, some lunging and bitten pant legs. In either situation (unsocialized reactivity or actual aggression) the advice below seems completely reasonable to me.

1. Call a trainer/behaviourist
2. Ensure the dog doesn't tie
3. Get it some serious exercise and basic positive training
4. Keep it below threshold and reward calmness

I don't think anyone should be advocating aversives over the internet (especially on a dog like this). As those definitely can backfire really easily. But I don't really see why if someone is looking for advice telling them 1) professional help is best and 2) here are options I would consider is bad. Positive methods aren't going to make her worse. Maybe not better, but nothing is going to be worse than keeping her locked in that backyard alone 'til maturity.

EDIT: 


> The dog has already bitten at least twice.


I must've missed where she says this.


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

MrsBoats said:


> Message boards ought to treat threads about this sort of behavior just like they would a thread about "My dog has had projectile bloody diarrhea for the last 5 days. What should I do?" It should be closed and the poster be told see a real life trainer.


I so agree with this I seen this on a different forum I'm on and I'm like vomiting and diarrhea is serious! Take pup to vet. sad. 

They're like I don't want to go to emergency vet.. "Sigh"

Emmett I get that, but I don't see Mrsboats as being harsh. Dunno why people think that. One thing to need help working on sit, crawl, speak, down, not jumping and loose leash walking, but aggression or fearful and reactiveness? 

At least provide video or picture of this behavior.

To add this person posting this all sudden very little background info. If this person is first time dog owner or first time intact dog owner if this dog came from good breeder etc. What socialization done which sounds of it none. 

Wait till dog gets all it's shots if I did that Saya wouldn't be such a bombproof dog with kids and people. 
Sure we try to help I gave some decent suggestions. 

I just don't get it this dog came from a breeder who wants breed her, but apparently not good source of support since this owner not asking for help from breeder.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

aiw said:


> I must've missed where she says this.


The op used the word "bit". A true bite to skin would only be one layer of material away, _potentially_, but I don't think we need to debate the nuances here ... do we ???


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

petpeeve said:


> The op used the word "bit". A true bite to skin would only be one layer of material away, _potentially_, but I don't think we need to debate the nuances here ... do we ???





> bit his pants.


I think the difference between biting pants and person is quite a bit more than nuance.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

petpeeve said:


> The op used the word "bit". A true bite to skin would only be one layer of material away, _potentially_, but I don't think we need to debate the nuances here ... do we ???


Apparently we do. 

There have been innumerable threads on this forum from people who have decided that their puppies are horribly aggressive. Most of these threads are from people who have puppies (albeit usually younger puppies) that are boisterous and biting the way we all know that puppies do, and the responses are usually along the lines of "yep, you've got a puppy". I haven't seen responses to those threads like there is to this thread....why? In this thread, any response even close to that has been thoroughly condemned (even though, it could be the case, though more dangerous because of the size of the dog). 

There are several different kinds of bites someone can get from a dog, and for instance the situation with Rescued (I believe it was, who gave us the picture of the bite), some dogs aren't aggressive, they are scared, or upset or wound up and sometimes they redirect or they just don't know how to act appropriately. There are different levels of bite, whether they break skin or not. Also consider some of the threads on this forum and elsewhere (I can't remember their titles right now) that talk about the different levels of bites. Would the bite to the pants have broke the skin, fact is we don't know. I do however know that when Caeda was a puppy she put holes in many a pant cuff and housecoat as well as the sleeves of a couple of jackets when she got into her jumping phase. The biggest problem with the OP's dog that I see is its size and strength, and the potential time bomb that could be created if they don't do something with their dog. 

Oh, and that is something, sure, recommend getting a trainer until you turn blue....a trainer isn't a magic wand either! The trainer will likely want the owners involved in things like those that have been recommended here. Even the bad advice on this thread (and I personally can't say that any of it was really 100% bad, though yes, some perhaps a bit less safe) suggests DOING SOMETHING WITH THE DOG. This is VERY important, especially for this dog. Yes, perhaps it should be done under the guidance of a trainer, at least the more advanced/risky desensitization stuff, but no matter what the OP NEEDS to do more with the dog, needs to be encouraged to integrate it into the family no matter what or else all of the trainers in the world will not be able to help.

A dog that isn't given decent socialization, and left outside all of the time without good interaction with it's family is only going to be "helped" by a vet with a needle because it'll be suffering from being tied up alone all of the time, probably, justifiably going a little nuts and a danger to anyone who goes near. I personally think that this dog is young enough to be helped (and yes, due to its size and potential danger, preferably with the help of a trainer), assuming that it isn't the product of a nightmare breeding pair, but only if the OP starts working with it....even if working with it is simply hand feeding and building trust. Oh....is hand feeding too risky to suggest?


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Look-

all I'm saying, and the moral of the story:

When dogs have crappy genetics: they don't have the best start.
When these dogs with crappy genetics are underexercised, undersocialized, and understimulated, they tend to get frustrated.
When dogs get frustrated, they tend to "act out" in ways that us humans find NOT OKAY.
When this happens, the dogs receive even less training and attention, and things like barrier frustration start to develop.
When things like barrier frustration develop, dogs are stressed and need an "outlet" for their frustration.

When the above dog is now 90 lbs and becomes frustrated, the dog can be a serious liability.

Moral?

well... I don't know. But the statements above are about all we can deduce from the OP's posts. I posted my picture as a warning- when someone talks about an "aggressive 8 week old lab pup that bites ankles and growls"... we can all pretty much say that the puppy is being a puppy and there are probably no huge issues.

Add in poor breeding, a "sharper" working breed, and a lot of weight? Suddenly, I am not so quick to say that biting pants legs when another dog walks by is *not* redirected barrier frustration.

Is it? I don't know. But this case has a few things different than our typical "my puppy is aggressive post."


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## lego (Sep 13, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> You guys see that?? This is the reality of what I was venting about earlier in this thread...this isn't "oh, my dog can't walk on a loose leash" where Kikopup (who everyone seems to think is the second coming of Christ or something) videos could be helpful.
> 
> I'll say it again, it's not right that people try to speculate and guess what might be the issue with a dog they can't observe themselves...and it's even less right to give advice based on a guess of dog behavior you can't witness yourself.
> 
> If the behavior is serious where someone or something is going to get hurt and it can't be seen and observed first hand...don't play armchair trainer. Tell the person to get their dog to an actual trainer.


 Hit the nail on the head. Again.
This dog needs a behaviourist ASAP.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Well, both sides of the 'get a trainer / don't get a trainer' and 'bite occurred / no bite occured' cases have been fairly well presented for the op to carefully consider now, and anyone else who happens upon this thread. Although in my opinion anyway, whenever a person uses the words "EXTREME aggression" be it factual or not - careful consideration is still good thing.

Think I'll just leave my own comments at that ... you guys feel free to continue of course, :deadhorse: I'm out.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

petpeeve said:


> Well, both sides of the 'get a trainer / don't get a trainer' and 'bite occurred / no bite occured' cases have been fairly well presented for the op to carefully consider now, and anyone else who happens upon this thread. Although in my opinion anyway, whenever a person uses the words "EXTREME aggression" be it factual or not - careful consideration is still good thing.
> 
> Think I'll just leave my own comments at that ... you guys feel free to continue of course, :deadhorse: I'm out.


Um, I am seriously procrastinating studying for my two tests tomorrow, so if everyone could continue to beat the dying (dead?) horse, it would be much appreciated. And yes, i am serious.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

You need to study!!! 

I'm done too...this thread makes my blood pressure unsafe and makes me want to drink a ridiculous amount of wine. 


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I have all ready had a couple of glasses of wine so not too much is bothering me right now xD


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## MaDeuce (Sep 5, 2013)

Man....it could just be a bratty 7mo old that has never been shown any rules or boundaries....

Not everything is poor genetics. A lot of people do not have the slightest clue what true aggression truly is. I get so many calls about aggressive 10 week old gsd puppies it aint funny. 

Dogs need rules. Dogs need CONSISTENCY! Dogs need exercise and last but not least they need affection and someone to bond with! 

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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

You shouldn't have a dog. Period. Please contact a German Shepherd rescue organization and have them help you place the dog with a family that will train it properly.

I'd suggest maybe getting a cat if you want a pet where you're strangers passing in the night


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

A cat is actually more work then ppl think, if this person wants a low maintenance pet, something like a Betta fish would be good, you don't have to walk them, but you do have to feed them lol.

Josefina is what I would call (& Lardner my French) a "dog asshole" in a lot of ways, ESP with other dogs & because of that is a fairly high maintenance dog, in the wrong hands a dog like her would be ... Prolly like this dog.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> A cat is actually more work then ppl think, if this person wants a low maintenance pet, something like a Betta fish would be good, you don't have to walk them, but you do have to feed them lol.


How about a pet rock? I have a friend who has one and she thinks its swell. You don't have to clean the tank out if you have a pet rock (but don't open that cage door, hers is crazy!)


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> A cat is actually more work then ppl think, if this person wants a low maintenance pet, something like a Betta fish would be good, you don't have to walk them, but you do have to feed them lol.


In my experience, properly caring for a Betta is actually hard work! Fish tanks can be quite tricky.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

I think this is being a little hard on the OP....it is late, and perhaps too late, but at least it does seem like they are seeking help to some degree. I had NO idea how much it would take and what the full scale of needs were when I got Caeda (yep, I was one of those). Luckily though I went out of my way, very quickly to learn and had minimal catch-up to do (though I admit, her lack of intensive socialization early on still shows a little, but I've taught her a lot of control). 
To the OP....give it a shot, try hard with your dog, you WILL have to modify the way you are used to living, but from personal experience, it can be a worthwhile change. If it turns out that there are things you are not willing to give up, or change, then at that point definitely consider a different kind of pet, and if you decide you want a dog still, please at very least consider getting some good help and input on a more appropriate breed for you that will fit more with your lifestyle, and will require changes you are willing to make. If you aren't willing to make any changes other than looking out the back window to look at your pet....yeah, get a rock, heck, get a big piece of granite or something and have someone sandblast your address on it or something....that can be shown off....sorry, that is a little rude, but you get my point. I do truly hope that you do have it in you to work with your dog and bring it up to speed and give it a happy, healthy and social life, it really is a rewarding experience, though it might not be for you....if it isn't admit that and don't force a round peg into a square hole, rehome your dog so it can be happy and you won't have the stress anymore. At it's age there may still be a chance that it can be brought around.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

All you have to do is clean the tank every week, I used distilled water when I lived in the city but now we have a softener that has a faucet for water that goes through a additional 5 stage filter so I just use that. 

I just me too ex them because they don't need an air filter, they don't need to be walked or trained.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Well, we can be thankful no one suggested the OP to contact the CM to help her with her dog. 

Sorry Mrs Boats suggestion of wine and I took her up on that made me say that. 

People get a breed of dog because it was given to them or it was so cute in the cage or the internet picture without doing research leads a lot of owners to search forums to find the clues on how to have a good dog after the fact. Too many people are looking for the magical pill with no work or money involved to correct their mistakes they have made. Owning any pet is hard work and takes time out of your schedule to take care of it. Owning a pet is a luxury and not a law. Shut up quit your whining and learn to deal with it or buy a stuffed pet to own. They even have stuffed pets that look like they are breathing.

You should have seen how long it took me to train the cat to teach the dogs how lie down and stay on that couch. The trainer cat is in the lower left hand corner of the picture. And yes most of his students are looking at him for the next command.


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## Teds-slave (Nov 14, 2012)

That's a 7 month old puppy challenging you in their juvenile months. She thinks she is in charge and probably hasn't socialized enough. You need to get on top of it now. Gsd's are a strong breed, although deemed easy to train, they will protect their owners at all cost unless told otherwise. Get her straight to training classes and try out some dog agility, they like to have something to work at. Walk about the streets and keep her at heal, where there is lots going on. Let her off the leash only in rural areas for now where you won't meet anyone. Use lots of nice treats to keep her distracted. She may not be getting enough one to one attention being shut outside. Dogs like to be part of the family


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Teds-slave said:


> That's a 7 month old puppy challenging you in their juvenile months. She thinks she is in charge and probably hasn't socialized enough. You need to get on top of it now. Gsd's are a strong breed, although deemed easy to train, they will protect their owners at all cost unless told otherwise. Get her straight to training classes and try out some dog agility, they like to have something to work at. Walk about the streets and keep her at heal, where there is lots going on. Let her off the leash only in rural areas for now where you won't meet anyone. Use lots of nice treats to keep her distracted. She may not be getting enough one to one attention being shut outside. Dogs like to be part of the family


No dominance / pack dogs-as-wolves stuff please it is seriously outdated & has long since been debunked, even by the "creator" has dismissed it. 

This is simply an unruly, under stimulated, under trained teenage puppy.

OP I'd you are still here please google "nothing in life is free for dogs" as we'll as check out the NILF link in the stickies on the training ... Or the first time dog owner forum, I can't remember which forum it's on lol.


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## AvaBear (Mar 27, 2012)

I have a 2 year old german shepherd and she HATES being outside alone. GSDs need their pack. Just muzzle her for a while and take her to an off leash park. Let her see how the other Dogs interact with one another and she will catch on


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

If the OP thinks that a dog in heat messes up the house, she will be in a shock when the dog has a litter of pups. I wonder what she will do with the pups when they destroy everything in the back yard and constantly pooping and peeing. Be another one of those breeders who sell puppies at 5 and 6 weeks old I suppose.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Or dump them off at the nearest AC or shelter  , there (at least in my area) are FAR too many GSD and mixes flooding the shelters, and we all know that large, hairy, dark colored dogs are usually the last to be adopted


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## Emily1188 (Jun 21, 2011)

AvaBear said:


> I have a 2 year old german shepherd and she HATES being outside alone. GSDs need their pack. Just muzzle her for a while and take her to an off leash park. Let her see how the other Dogs interact with one another and she will catch on


Please, OP or anyone reading with a similar situation, please don't do this. This is extremely dangerous, and totally unfair to your dog or other patrons of the dog park, who have a right visit without their dogs being subjected to a potentially aggressive dog, muzzled or not. A muzzled, dog aggressive dog still has the same feelings and urges but it is unable to act on them and unable to defend themselves. Not to mention, dogs can and do hurt people and dogs by "muzzle punching", and some dogs can and _will _get their muzzles off.

Do not take this dog or a dog like this to an off leash park, muzzled or no.

I realize the OP probably has not been back for a while but I just wanted anyone reading this who might be in a similar situation to realize this is very dangerous advice.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Emily1188 said:


> Please, OP or anyone reading with a similar situation, please don't do this. This is extremely dangerous, and totally unfair to your dog or other patrons of the dog park, who have a right visit without their dogs being subjected to a potentially aggressive dog, muzzled or not. A muzzled, dog aggressive dog still has the same feelings and urges but it is unable to act on them and unable to defend themselves. Not to mention, dogs can and do hurt people and dogs by "muzzle punching", and some dogs can and _will _get their muzzles off.
> 
> Do not take this dog or a dog like this to an off leash park, muzzled or no.
> 
> I realize the OP probably has not been back for a while but I just wanted anyone reading this who might be in a similar situation to realize this is very dangerous advice.


God thank you for this.


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