# "Flirt Pole"? Should I or shouldn't I?



## TMFranklin (Apr 29, 2013)

Recently I've heard of the idea to exercise Finn using a Flirt pole, and I was keen on the idea so I made my own using a the handle part of my broken broom, a shoelace, and a pair of ratty socks. However, I hesitated on using it because I wanted to do further research. My system for him, even though I haven't started it yet, is for him to sit, lay down, and stay until I tell him when to start playing. He knows drop it, so when he catches it I know I could do that and then repeat the process. Further research was very mixed.

There were voices saying it was very effective and good and helped to tire out the dogs "prey drive" (which I desperately need because my body can't take his constant chasing of butterflies on leash) but I also got concerned because one person was in a discussion with others about how she was considered a dog fighter for using the flirt pole. Will playing with Finnley using a flirt pole effect his future interactions with dogs, people, and other animals? He's an incredibly friendly dog who everyone loves, but he is teeming with excess energy and the flirt pole seems like a perfect way to eliminate some of it so it would be easier to take him for a walk, but I don't want to run the risk of him hurting a child, another dog, or a cat because of my want to have more of a handle on his strength. 

Would playing with him this way be a good course of action?


----------



## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Flirt poles and spring poles can be used to condition fighting dogs but that doesn't mean it is a bad idea to use for your dog. They won't help teach the dog to like fighting or anything for sure! That old sock doesn't seem much like a cat, chicken, dog, child at all. In fact the restraint you are teaching with the flirt pole will help him learn to leave exciting running cats, chattering squirrels and such!

Lure coursing dogs and sporting dogs use flirt poles as well and probably lots of people with bully breeds and probably a lot of people with any breed of dog that adore playing tug hang up spring poles for their dogs. It is good for dogs to learn to use what they want to do in a positive manner.

I hope it is a long shoelace, wouldn't want to bop him on the head with the stick! Max's favorite lure was an old sock too.


----------



## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

we have a squeaky toy as a lure, though Manna just this morning snapped the line (hubby is fixing it now for me  )
yes flirt poles and such can and sometimes are used to tire out or amp up fighting dogs but the toy itself does not cause aggression, fighters encourage aggression in other ways.

We use a flirt pole for a few minutes before every walk, I found it really helps Manna with her impulse control if she's allowed to get her chasing out in a more controlled manner first. No more chasing leaves and bugs for us on walks.


----------



## TMFranklin (Apr 29, 2013)

Kathyy said:


> Flirt poles and spring poles can be used to condition fighting dogs but that doesn't mean it is a bad idea to use for your dog. They won't help teach the dog to like fighting or anything for sure! That old sock doesn't seem much like a cat, chicken, dog, child at all. In fact the restraint you are teaching with the flirt pole will help him learn to leave exciting running cats, chattering squirrels and such!
> 
> Lure coursing dogs and sporting dogs use flirt poles as well and probably lots of people with bully breeds and probably a lot of people with any breed of dog that adore playing tug hang up spring poles for their dogs. It is good for dogs to learn to use what they want to do in a positive manner.
> 
> I hope it is a long shoelace, wouldn't want to bop him on the head with the stick! Max's favorite lure was an old sock too.


It's a really long shoelace! 
So it won't make him aggressive at all and create him to be a machine of chasing innocent animals or small children?


----------



## TMFranklin (Apr 29, 2013)

Flaming said:


> we have a squeaky toy as a lure, though Manna just this morning snapped the line (hubby is fixing it now for me  )
> yes flirt poles and such can and sometimes are used to tire out or amp up fighting dogs but the toy itself does not cause aggression, fighters encourage aggression in other ways.
> 
> We use a flirt pole for a few minutes before every walk, I found it really helps Manna with her impulse control if she's allowed to get her chasing out in a more controlled manner first. No more chasing leaves and bugs for us on walks.


So it's not the flirt pole itself that makes the fighting dogs aggressive, but just gets them ready to do what they were trained to do through other methods by the dogfighters?

The flirt pole will have no effect on my dog becoming aggressive?


----------



## Melle (Aug 9, 2013)

Flirt poles are awesome for impulse control training. Not only does 15 minutes of it do a good job of wearing out my girl before a walk, but I have her "out" (drop the lure and lie down), before I give he "okay," her release command. That way most of the excess energy is gone, it promotes self-control, and there's a little less lunging after squirrels on our walks, which in turn, makes it easier to work on distraction training as we're walking.

It's also fun to watch the dog go sliding across the lawn after it 

And nope, the flirt pole does not make the dog aggressive. It's basically the same thing as a dog chasing a ball. Either way its chasing to catch its toy, except that balls don't come on strings. That's how I tend to explain it. But no, a dog can only be made aggressive through stress, implied by its handler or situations that place it over its threshold of comfort, and lack of training.


----------



## TMFranklin (Apr 29, 2013)

Thank you very much for the input! I was so nervous to use it (sorry I was asking so much!) but learning that it could help with impulse control (which Finn desperately needs to keep himself safe), I think I'll start training him with it! Thank you once again for everyone's time!


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

It is just a controlled chase-fetch basically. And provides lots of training chances for "drop it"

Great exercise for adult dogs, I wouldn't just one much for a dog under 1 year old due to the jumping and twisting motions and for the same reason I wouldn't use one for a dog with joint problems. Otherwise, lots of fun.


----------



## TMFranklin (Apr 29, 2013)

Shell said:


> It is just a controlled chase-fetch basically. And provides lots of training chances for "drop it"
> 
> Great exercise for adult dogs, I wouldn't just one much for a dog under 1 year old due to the jumping and twisting motions and for the same reason I wouldn't use one for a dog with joint problems. Otherwise, lots of fun.


What about petting the dog when he catches the toy? Will this encourage anything negative? And petting him after he releases? Will that?


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

TMFranklin said:


> What about petting the dog when he catches the toy? Will this encourage anything negative? And petting him after he releases? Will that?


I don't see how petting (rewarding) a dog after he releases a toy or object could be bad. When he catches it, he will want to play tug so you can let him tug it a bit and then ask for him to release it. That is when you give praise or a small treat (when he gives it up)


----------



## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Petting a dog that is all into an exciting game is irritating to most dogs. I doubt he would like you to do it. A much better reward would be to allow him to get to chase the lure again! Here is an excerpt from a book by Patricia McConnell on the subject. Pumpkin and petting

Sassy definitely thought the flirt pole was some sort of strange ball. She chased it then brought the lure back to me like it was a ball!


----------



## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Caeda doesn't like petting at all when she's all drivey....if anything a good solid (but friendly) pat/slap on her side is more what she'll respond to. Think of a boxer in the middle of a fight, probably not prone to be interested in a gentle hug lol. The best reward I've found is to get to chase again (its a good idea to have a treat or two in your pocket for when you're ready to stop the game....just to still end with a reward). Flirt pole was EXCELLENT for Caeda's impulse control, I even worked on having her stay in a down while I swept it around the ground until I released her to go for it (I don't overdo that though...). It won't (IMO and IME) encourage going after children or small animals, if anything it gives your dog an appropriate outlet for the prey drive and an excellent setup for teaching the dog to 'cap' that drive when necessary so it learns to keep up some attentiveness to obedience commands while still in drive. I'd say using the flirt pole coupled with a little bit of obedience helped with Caeda's urge to chase wildlife, we played fetch 20 feet or so away from a flock of geese the other day (some landed during that time), and she only glanced at them...not her 'natural' inclination if her puppy behavior was any indication lol. 

Just start out easy, there are some rules to the game (you'll probably need to work on "give" the first couple of times it gets caught, and maybe enforce no jumping at it until it hits the ground (nothing worse than getting body slammed while you are carrying it outside to go play lol), or whatever you find works for you, easy stuff to start with though. It is SO fun.


----------



## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Honestly, unless you're beating you dog with the hard stick end or your dog is afraid of the lure, then I can't see anything about a flirt pole causing any sort of aggression. 
Dog parks and many other activities are more likely to cause aggression but that's still not common.


----------



## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

My Rott became less prey driven with animals and much less dog aggressive after using the flirt pole and a tiny bit of spring pole but I think that's partly coincidence,but does show I do not think it increases such drives.

Although I think controlled playing at dog parks with only 2-3 dogs can decrease aggression,being sometimes it's the only way a dog can get a play date,and the dog associating dogs with playing instead of barking at them across the road makes them see others more positively. Frankly anything can go bad and increase dog aggression,I can say the same with dog walks and potty breaks because of loose dogs,but if your dog is cooped up all the time it can do the same.

Flirt poles where used to increase endurance,lean muscle and agility with fighting dogs,something that's good for all working and sporting dogs. It did not make them a better fighter or more aggressive mentally. Similar to why they use tread mills,running by bikes(roadwork) and spring poles for conditioning fighting dogs before a match as well. They want a dog that can fight over an hour or more,which would be very difficult for a un fit dog,so that is why they use flirt pole and usually a mixture of other exercises so the dog is physically ready for the pit. Alaskan Huskies are usually conditioned as well before doing a race.


----------



## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

The lure on ours is braided fleece. My dogs (high prey drive) LOVE the flirt pole. It is their absolute favorite thing, and they get so excited when they see me bring it out into the yard. It has caused zero changes in any of their interactions with people/other dogs/each other, etc. Actually, quite the opposite, it has helped with impulse control and commands such as drop it.


----------

