# Fence question for a new dog



## LoloMyDear (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi all,

My name is Lauren and I'm new here. My husband and I are closing on our first house this week and finally have a fenced yard for a dog, so we're starting to look for our newest family member. We're open to most breeds, but have a couple of concerns. Our main concern is that our fence is short, just under 4 feet. We both grew up with large labs, so that is what we're leaning toward, but I'm worried about them being able to jump over the fence. My husband says that if we get a puppy and train it properly, that won't be an issue. But I'm inclined to rescue a dog and worry that a dog that's 1-3 years old won't be trainable in that area. So I'm leaning toward smaller dogs, up to 40/45 lbs. Also, we have lots of other dogs around and have nieces and nephews and other small children around a lot, so we need a friendly, sociable dog. 

I would really appreciate any thoughts! Thanks!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I think starting off with a young adult dog (closer to 2-3 years rather than 1 year) is a good way to go. You can get an idea of the dog around other dogs and around children, a grown dog is sturdier around kids (always always supervise of course) and you can get right to walking and having fun with the dog since he'd already be fully vaccinated and fully grown. You also get to skip the time consuming potty training stage. 

Fences are mental boundaries as much as they are physical boundaries and you can teach an adult dog to respect them just fine. Now, if the individual dog is a known escape artist or a breed known for getting out (like Huskies), it would be harder. But I don't see any reason that a medium sized dog of 40-50 lbs won't be fine within a ~4 foot fence (is it an actual fence or a decorative fence?) while supervised. I have a regular 4 foot chain link fence and an 80 lbs dog and a 70 lbs dog. Either _could_ clear it if they wanted to. But I keep an eye on them and make the backyard a fun place to interact with me or to have a good chew toy.
The only dog I had take a runner went UNDER the fence while I was watching him.... I wouldn't have guessed a 70 lbs Labrador could go under a chain link fence in about 5 seconds but he did and then grabbed a stick and ran around in circles in my neighbor's yard. It was his first week with me 

I've seen a PUG climb a fence so size isn't the main issue.

If you need to leave a dog outside alone now and then, a secure kennel with a shade cover and a lock could be set up in a suitable location. But most dogs would greatly prefer to be inside with their people or even if you aren't home, in a crate or room in the nice climate controlled house with no chance of rain or heat etc.


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## LoloMyDear (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks for the response! 

I am definitely leaning toward a 2-3 year old dog (or really anything already trained under 4ish years). For just the reasons you said: hopefully will already know basic commands and be potty trained. Plus, my heart breaks for the poor little orphans. 

Thanks for the insight on the fence. Our fence is wooden (like this http://www.superiorfenceandrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Bunting_Wood_CrossBuck-Fence.jpg), but with wire inside so there's no way to crawl/climb through. We're moving in this weekend, so we'll do a thorough check of the wire to ensure there aren't any holes, breaks, etc. 

I grew up with a lab/chow mutt who was about 70lbs and loved to run around the back yard. My parents had a 6 ft. fence, but more than once he dug under and got out of the yard. He was mostly an inside dog, but did love to run around from time to time and since they had almost an acre, sometimes my parents would just leave outside to enjoy himself. Our yard is much smaller, but I want our dog to be able to enjoy himself outside if he wants without having to watch him like a hawk every time he's out there. I do remember though, that my dad trained our dog not to go into certain rooms of the new house when we moved when the dog was 2/3 years old. So that gives me hope that I could train a new dog to respect the fence. 

Thanks for the information on Huskies. Do you know of other breeds that wouldn't be a good fit for us in regards to the fence?

Thanks!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Dogs that are left outside to "enjoy themselves" without sufficient exercise first are more likely to dig and escape. Bored dogs basically. Not that is it bad for a dog to hang around outside on a nice weather day for awhile, just that you still have to keep an eye out. Like, if I have the dogs outside while I am inside doing chores like dishes, I keep the window and door open so I can hear them and glance at them regularly and I give them something like a safe chew toy to occupy them inside the yard (the dogs are separated into two sections of yard when they have chew toys for safety's sake). 
I wouldn't trust a 4 foot fence to contain any dog left totally alone, plus they are vulnerable to things like neighborhood kids reaching through the fence or throwing toys or trying to feed them or to other passersby. 

Working with a rescue that has dogs in foster can help you find a dog that already respects fences. Oddly, the only foster I had that was a real escape artist went to a home with a very minimal fence, like a 3 foot decorative picket fence. The family was fully informed that he was an athlete that may try to escape and since the fence was so small it couldn't be relied on to contain any dog, he is always supervised outside. 
Regardless of how much the dog seems to acknowledge the fence as a boundary, I highly suggest 100% supervision for the first ~2 or 3 months of having a dog in a new home (also, microchip the dog and keep the contact info current). Something may frighten the dog (like a clap of thunder or a fire truck siren) and cause the dog to run or they may get panicked at being "left" until they are comfortable and secure in their new home. Use that time to train recall and always make coming back to you a good thing. Use lots of treats in the beginning and never call the dog and then do something the dog dislikes such as a bath or nail trim.


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## LoloMyDear (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks for all the input, Shell. We'll do some more research and talk to the foster parents before we settle on a certain dog. We both grew up with dogs, but certainly have a lot to learn about being the primary caregivers!


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I would go ahead and line the fence with something (maybe like decorative stones) to discourage digging. 

As long as you are there to supervise the dog, you may be fine. 

Don't leave your dog unattended in the yard. That will cut down a lot of risk.


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## LoloMyDear (Apr 7, 2014)

The rocks are a good idea, HollowHeaven. We'll definitely supervise. Thanks!


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

We have a wooden fence its more like 2 boards top and bottom, so more gaps than yours actually- we have a Bernese Mt dog and a great pyreenes mix in it and they are primarily outdoor dogs- but we do try to keep them engaged and they have 2 acres(only the front has this kind of board fencing the rest is stock fencing). 
What we did was line the inside of the fence with 4inch welded agricultural wire (like they use for field fencing). Ours is higher than yours though, about 5 ft. I think it helps that the (2yr old) Berner doesnt test the fence, so Puppy (10 months) doesnt either. The one time he got out, he crawled Under (like someone else mentioned) the back cattle gate...


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

My mothers 15pound dog fence jumps a 7foot fence. (like a mountain goat) While my 130 odd pounder respects a 2 foot babygate and 3 foot garden fence. Size although doesn't hurt, isn't always the best indicator. 

It's a mix of training, management, supervision and making the yard "the best place ever!"

You can start this training as an adult but I would suggest to ask the shelter for a dog that is not a known escape artist.


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## LoloMyDear (Apr 7, 2014)

This is great information. Thanks, everyone, for the input!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Yep with supervision you should be fine! My "fence" is a two foot tall x pen on one side, and it keeps my 80 lb lab in just fine. It's definitely as much of a training thing as anything else.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Rescued said:


> Yep with supervision you should be fine! My "fence" is a two foot tall x pen on one side, and it keeps my 80 lb lab in just fine. It's definitely as much of a training thing as anything else.


It actually took me a long time to get Chester to jump over any sort of line or tree when I wanted him to. Even a single rope strung across a driveway acted as a barrier to him but of course on hikes and stuff sometimes he'd have to go over a barrier.

He also won't push open any doors or gates. I try to train a dog to stop and wait before crossing an exterior threshold or going through a gate- no door dashing. Once my father put Chester in the yard while we unloaded the car and put things away so he was there about 15 minutes, which is fine except my father forgot to latch the gate. He shut the gate but any push at all and it would have swung open. Chester waited patiently for me to come open the gate for him. 
Eva still tries to run through to the backyard but at least at my parents house where they don't have a fenced yard, she stops at the top of the steps, surveys the yard and waits about 15 seconds before going down the steps.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

You can also run a couple of strands of hot wire about 2 feet inside the fence. Put one about a foot off the ground, and another about a foot above it. The dog will touch it once and stay away. You can buy it at any agriculture store. Get the one made for horses as it's cheaper and more durable than the cheap crap for dogs. They make solar ones too.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I know this is technically for coyotes, and I don't know what material your fence is, but a lot of people use these: http://www.coyoteroller.com/ where electric fences are not allowed.

someone posted the link a while back on facebook about one that used large PVC piping, but I cant for the life of me find it. But most of them use the same basic design this is the search I used: https://www.google.com/search?sourc...5883...........0.z64HBn2CCQE#q=coyote+rollers


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

I just wanted to voice my agreement that their motivation to escape is a lot more dependent on the individual dog. Our neighbor has a 4' fence and a 75lb dog who does agility and could probably clear it with no problem, but he hasn't ever tried in the 4 years they've had him. Smaller dogs who like to dig under would be as much of a concern as a large dog that could jump a 4' fence. Our puppy got out once... we heard him barking and went out to bring him in but he was on the other side of the fence barking at the gate to get back into the yard. We're guessing that the gate wasn't properly latched and he got out and then it closed behind him. We were fortunate that he didn't take off and wanted back in instead! We don't leave him out alone for long and always peek out to check on him, and now we're extra careful to pull on the gate to be sure it latched. We live on the top of a hill and he enjoys looking out over the neighborhood and waiting for the kids next door to leave for school because they always go over to the fence to say goodbye to him.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I would be a lot more worried about a dog going under the fence then going over it, that's my problem LOL. But those coyote roller bars are easy and cheap to install and they prevent a dog from getting a "launch point" to get over the fence, they also add some height as well.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

For adding height, a simple and aesthetically matching option is lattice fence top panels. 

Like this:









or this:









Personally, even if I trust my dog won't jump a low fence, I wish I had a higher and more solid fence to discourage the neighbor's small kids from try to reach over and through the fence to pet the dog.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

I trusted our dog not to jump our 5' fence. Until yesterday when she did. She's almost a year and a half old and weighs 75lbs. She was only outside for a few minutes, but the neighbor's dog on the other side was just too interesting for her to resist! And from their yard, she can get out to the street. So we'll be adding a top panel as suggested above.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

I love the lattice idea! It's an attractive and practical solution


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I think we are going to opt for the coyote roller because of the way our dogs jump on the fence, they lead with their front paws, and something that is rolling every time they try to grip it is going to be unpleasant for them.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

It is all about the fence the dog has in its head. For me I have welded wire with hot wire on the bottom and on the top along with invisible fencing for the big dogs. The invisible fencing is not buried but run along in the middle between the two hot wires. The hot wires are for the horses and the dog wire to keep the dogs off the fence line to prevent jumping, digging or anything else to try and escape. They really want to get out to chase those darn coyotes. Out in the country loose dogs are more likely to be shot so I have to make sure my dogs stay in. I also live out in the country and do not have to worry except for one neighbor.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

i don't leave my dog in the yard unattended. if you're going to leave your dog in the yard
you have yo make sure the fence is tall enough so the dog can't jump, you have to make sure
the dog can't out or climb out.

i think you should get a puppy since you have small children visiting. i wouldn't trust a rescue
around children or other animals. you get a pup and train it, socialize it then you know what
type of dog you have.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

doggiepop said:


> i think you should get a puppy since you have small children visiting. i wouldn't trust a rescue
> around children or other animals. you get a pup and train it, socialize it then you know what
> type of dog you have.


Ugh, I hate this misconception about rescue dogs. MANY rescue dogs are great with children, many are great with other animals. I just got back from visiting some friends and of course my two adult rescue dogs came with me. My friends have a 9 month old baby and 2 rescue dogs of their own. All 4 dogs are great with the baby; under close and careful within-arms-reach supervision of course and no rambunctious play near her. They go happily out and about where kids in public greet them, pet them and move around them. My dog Chester LOVES children and will sit or lay down for the littlest to pet him, Eva stands nicely and wags her tail while kids pet her. 

Getting a puppy is no guarantee of it being great with kids or animals either; you can help the odds by picking a breed that is outgoing vs shy etc, but as the puppy grows into an adult, even with socializing there is nothing certain. 

Basically, if you (a person) wants a puppy, that's all well and good, but don't feel pressured to get a puppy thinking that rescue dogs are somehow damaged goods or cannot be trusted any more than any other dog. 

Dogs of all ages, sizes, breeds and backgrounds need supervision around small children but I know easily a hundred rescue dogs that are great with kids. I have friends who take their dogs into schools for special programs, even into a place for abused and neglected children to help them read and get into a comfort zone (dogs are great therapy) and of course the everyday family dogs that are around kids in and out of the home both.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

depending on the size of the dog and the weight of the stone, i wouldn't trust a stone lined fence to keep a dog in. if you have to leave your dog outside unattended build him/her a nice size kennel.



LoloMyDear said:


> >>>>> The rocks are a good idea, <<<<<
> 
> HollowHeaven. We'll definitely supervise. Thanks!


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

i'm sure there's some great rescues with great tempermants. i look at getting a puppy as stacking the
odds in my favor for being social.



doggiepop said:


> i think you should get a puppy since you have small children visiting. i wouldn't trust a rescue
> around children or other animals. you get a pup and train it, socialize it then you know what
> type of dog you have.





Shell said:


> >>>> Ugh, I hate this misconception about rescue dogs.<<<<<
> 
> MANY rescue dogs are great with children, many are great with other animals. I just got back from visiting some friends and of course my two adult rescue dogs came with me. My friends have a 9 month old baby and 2 rescue dogs of their own. All 4 dogs are great with the baby; under close and careful within-arms-reach supervision of course and no rambunctious play near her. They go happily out and about where kids in public greet them, pet them and move around them. My dog Chester LOVES children and will sit or lay down for the littlest to pet him, Eva stands nicely and wags her tail while kids pet her.
> 
> ...


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

doggiepop said:


> i'm sure there's some great rescues with great tempermants. i look at getting a puppy as stacking the
> odds in my favor for being social.


Some? Try "most" 

You _might_ be stacking the odds in your favor with a puppy, of course a good breeder and a breed known for dog and human friendly nature will help, but if there is an adult dog that is happy and at ease with kids and dogs? That is really stacking the odds in your favor. 

Now, getting a purebred puppy to aim for a certain level of herding instinct, hunting instinct, specific task or health issue, okay, I getcha. But just general good nature towards children and adults? Yeah, that would be a ton of adult dogs available in rescue.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I am with Shell on this one. I have adopted/rescued/placed adult dogs into homes that have worked out fabulous. My bro being one of them. For years he was in the same mind frame about having to get a puppy for his family. That was until, he got a adult Keeshond mix from me. The dog absolutely loved his family fit right in like she had been there her whole life, did not chew anything up, potty in the house and she already came trained. Bro saw the light and has since adopted two adult dogs since then. His last adopter was 5 when he got her. She had been through two different homes prior to her placement with my bro. The first family just decided they did not want a dog and gave her to a ranch. She did not stick at the ranch and ended up in a rescue. Of course the ranch never fenced her in or tied her up. She has traveled across the US with my bro and his family who has expanded to a grandchild. The dog adores the baby. 

My own dogs that I have owned, some have come to me as adults. I got to admit it. I do like not having to do the puppy thing. Some families would be better off getting a young adult rather than a tiny puppy. Some kids end up not intentionally, being mean to the puppy. Puppies have sharp teeth and claws. Kids do not like it when the puppy keeps biting them. Also, getting bigger dog the kids are less likely to carry the dog around like they would a puppy. Kids carrying puppies can result in injuries to the puppy or the kid. 

Nope for me, I like the young adults and sometimes the older dog over the tiny little puppy. Lots of rescues, papers have these available.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Shell said:


> Ugh, I hate this misconception about rescue dogs. MANY rescue dogs are great with children, many are great with other animals. I just got back from visiting some friends and of course my two adult rescue dogs came with me. My friends have a 9 month old baby and 2 rescue dogs of their own. All 4 dogs are great with the baby; under close and careful within-arms-reach supervision of course and no rambunctious play near her. They go happily out and about where kids in public greet them, pet them and move around them. My dog Chester LOVES children and will sit or lay down for the littlest to pet him, Eva stands nicely and wags her tail while kids pet her.
> 
> Getting a puppy is no guarantee of it being great with kids or animals either; you can help the odds by picking a breed that is outgoing vs shy etc, but as the puppy grows into an adult, even with socializing there is nothing certain.
> 
> ...


I hate it too ... the rescue male I have is wonderful with everyone and if he gets uncomfortable, he would just leave or hide. IME adult rescues (the one I adopted officially and the few I have fostered) have been better with kids then the dogs I raised myself.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Shell said:


> Ugh, I hate this misconception about rescue dogs. MANY rescue dogs are great with children, many are great with other animals. I just got back from visiting some friends and of course my two adult rescue dogs came with me. My friends have a 9 month old baby and 2 rescue dogs of their own. All 4 dogs are great with the baby; under close and careful within-arms-reach supervision of course and no rambunctious play near her. They go happily out and about where kids in public greet them, pet them and move around them. My dog Chester LOVES children and will sit or lay down for the littlest to pet him, Eva stands nicely and wags her tail while kids pet her.
> 
> Getting a puppy is no guarantee of it being great with kids or animals either; you can help the odds by picking a breed that is outgoing vs shy etc, but as the puppy grows into an adult, even with socializing there is nothing certain.
> 
> ...


I hate it too. My rescue is the sweetest, most gentle, amazing dog. She is great around kids and other dogs. She is even pretty good with my cats and she has AN INSANE prey drive so it is shocking. I am confident that she wouldn't have turned out quite so good if I raised from a puppy.

I found it super easy getting an adult rescue. She came house broken and knew the basic commands. Integrating her into our family was a breeze.


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## SillyDogs (May 28, 2013)

Def rescue, maybe a bulldog mix(preferably a fixed female). My friend has a pure bred bulldog, my only peeve is having to wipe their mouths after they eat. They are great, smaller, affectionate dogs though. I suggest going to local shelters, spent time with multiple dogs that you feel a connection with, and choose from their.


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