# Leaky Gut Syndrome / IBD



## izaksunami (Sep 15, 2008)

Does anyone out there have any experience with "Leaky Gut Syndrome" or "IBD?" I have a 71/2 year old Dobermann that has had this problem since February 2007. He began to bloat and approx. every 30 to 40 days approx. 5 to 6 liters of fluid is drained from his belly. Nico is leaking Albumin protein into his belly cavity. He has been under the care of a conventional vet hospital for several months. I stopped his meds as they were literally killing him. He went from a 100 pound very muscular and thick boy to a thin 66 pound skeleton. We switched to a holistic vet approx. 3 months ago. Nico has put on some weight he is approx. 70 pounds now. His energy level is through the roof he goes 100 percent 100 percent of the time! He still however has the leaky gut pproblem and the fluid build up. Nico has had exploritory surgery and tissue samples were taken from every organ and they all came back negative. His albumin level fluctuates between 1.6 and 1.9 The normal albumin level from what I can remeber is supposed to be 4.0 and higher. At first the vets thought that Nico had a food allergy. He was taken off conventional food and given new foods with proteins that he has never had before. This didn't cure the problem. After refusing to eat perscription dog foods, we decided to go the holistic route. My bride id a believer in holistic medecine, I still equate it to Voo-Doo! I have learned over the years that my bride is right 99.999 percent of the time so I am hoping that she is right on the holistic approach. We have spent close to $12,000.00 since February 2008. Nico is an outstanding Dobermann. We imported him from Slovakia in 2001. Nico has no fear, is guard trained, trained with gun fire, has an extremely hard bite yet is is a very social dog and great with young children. In closing we are hoping that "someone" out there has had this problem and has successfully dealt with it and can share his/her experience with us.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I guess nobody has had any experience with this.....I do know that diet plays a huge role in treating IBD in humans. What are you currently feeding him?


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

Willowy said:


> I do know that diet plays a huge role in treating IBD in humans. What are you currently feeding him?


No experience, but I have read that diet is everything. Looks like your poor dog has more than his share of illness. Have you been to a Vet Teaching Hospital? They would probably be up on the very latest treatments and diets. 

I wish you and your dog the very best.


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## izaksunami (Sep 15, 2008)

Willowy said:


> I guess nobody has had any experience with this.....I do know that diet plays a huge role in treating IBD in humans. What are you currently feeding him?



We have been feeding Nico home made food. He has been off conventional dog food since February 2008. We cook beef, liver, potatos, black beans, fresh spinach, green beans, carrots and sweet potatoes. Plus Nico is taking several holistic meds. Early on Nico was on perscription dog food. He got to the point where he simply refused to eat the perscription food. Nico is eating approx. 5 pounds of this food a day. His energy level is extremely high. Nico has this energy level since he was 6 weeks old. Nico is now 7.5 years old. 

I can't believe that no one has had any experience with Nico's problem. One of the links ( Vet link) I believe that was on this forum wanted to know how much I would "pay" for their response. Does this forum encourage this? I personally believe that the link should be banned.

Mario


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

izaksunami said:


> One of the links ( Vet link) I believe that was on this forum wanted to know how much I would "pay" for their response. Does this forum encourage this? I personally believe that the link should be banned.
> 
> Mario


If you think it is wrong than report the post. If it's incorrect I'm sure it will be deleted by one of the mods.


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## PeppersPop (Apr 13, 2008)

I have an "IBD" (aka Inflammatory Bowel Disease)... the two most common ones are ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. I would suggest doing a google search... a lot of the medications used on humans seem to be used on dogs as well. I don't know anything about the holisitic stuff tho.

I don't think that giving you a bunch of info about my medical history is going to be very helpful... are there any specific questions or things I could maybe help clarify? If you want to do conventional stuff, a GI vet affiliated with a major college or university vet school would probably be your best bet.

Regards,
Sid




izaksunami said:


> Does anyone out there have any experience with "Leaky Gut Syndrome" or "IBD?" I have a 71/2 year old Dobermann that has had this problem since February 2007. He began to bloat and approx. every 30 to 40 days approx. 5 to 6 liters of fluid is drained from his belly. Nico is leaking Albumin protein into his belly cavity. He has been under the care of a conventional vet hospital for several months. I stopped his meds as they were literally killing him. He went from a 100 pound very muscular and thick boy to a thin 66 pound skeleton. We switched to a holistic vet approx. 3 months ago. Nico has put on some weight he is approx. 70 pounds now. His energy level is through the roof he goes 100 percent 100 percent of the time! He still however has the leaky gut pproblem and the fluid build up. Nico has had exploritory surgery and tissue samples were taken from every organ and they all came back negative. His albumin level fluctuates between 1.6 and 1.9 The normal albumin level from what I can remeber is supposed to be 4.0 and higher. At first the vets thought that Nico had a food allergy. He was taken off conventional food and given new foods with proteins that he has never had before. This didn't cure the problem. After refusing to eat perscription dog foods, we decided to go the holistic route. My bride id a believer in holistic medecine, I still equate it to Voo-Doo! I have learned over the years that my bride is right 99.999 percent of the time so I am hoping that she is right on the holistic approach. We have spent close to $12,000.00 since February 2008. Nico is an outstanding Dobermann. We imported him from Slovakia in 2001. Nico has no fear, is guard trained, trained with gun fire, has an extremely hard bite yet is is a very social dog and great with young children. In closing we are hoping that "someone" out there has had this problem and has successfully dealt with it and can share his/her experience with us.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I wonder if all the vegetable matter in his diet could be a problem for him? Dogs have no biological need for veggies or grains, and they're kind of hard for dogs to digest. It's not usually a problem for healthy dogs, but since he's already got tummy troubles, it might be an issue for him. Ask the holistic vet about a "prey model" raw diet, which consists entirely of raw meat (and bones and organs, etc.). Very easy for dogs to digest.


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## izaksunami (Sep 15, 2008)

Willowy said:


> I wonder if all the vegetable matter in his diet could be a problem for him? Dogs have no biological need for veggies or grains, and they're kind of hard for dogs to digest. It's not usually a problem for healthy dogs, but since he's already got tummy troubles, it might be an issue for him. Ask the holistic vet about a "prey model" raw diet, which consists entirely of raw meat (and bones and organs, etc.). Very easy for dogs to digest.


We are going to the holistic vet this A.M. I will definitely ask about the veggies and going on a raw diet. I will forward her reply.

Thanks,

Mario


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## Suzi's Mom (Oct 12, 2008)

What is happening with your dog? My dog has the same thing (inflamatory bowel disease). She only weighs 6# (Maltese) and lost 2#. 

We took her to a specialist. We were able to get the water in her swelled belly down with a steroid, diuretic and change of food to Royal Canin potato and venison. We chose that food because she had never had venison before. The potato is for chemical balance. Her last blood work showed vast improvement in her albumin and total protein. Three days after we took her off the diuretic (Wednesday) she started to swell up with water again and is lethargic again. I'll be calling Monday. I wish we knew what was causing it.


I am really scared.


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## izaksunami (Sep 15, 2008)

We have been dealing with LGS/IBD since February of 2008. Nico was an extremely healthy and powerful 100 dobermann. He developed a bloat and within a week or so dropped down to 66 pounds! He lost i/3 of his body weight. Coincidentially if my math is correct your dog also has lost 1/3 of her weight. Unfortunately vets do not know exactly what causes these diseases. They have taken educated guesses an treat with a bunch of meds which is probably what your dog is on. We decided to take our Nico off of the conventional meds because they were killing him. We took Nico to a holistic vet and believe it or not he was doing better from a general health perspective but still had the bloat/albumin leak. Our holistic vet said that she had to treat his poor general health condition before she could deal with the LGS/IBD. I am curious as to what your dog's albumin level was/is. Nico's was as low as 1.6 and not gotten over 1.9 to date. Nico has never been lethargic in fact his energy level, which has always been extremey high, has been through the roof. I have got to assume that the holistic therapies that he has been on for a few months now has had to help. Last Saterday we gave Nico a marrow bone and he apparently broke it into pieces and swallowed sharp pieces of the bone fragments. Sunday morning he was passing blood big time. Our yard looked like a crime scene. We rushed him to the vet hospital that had been treating him for is LGS/IBD. They put him on IV's and an antibiotic. He was in the hospital for about three days. During this time he went from approx.76 pounds back down to approx. 70 pounds. While in the hospital I asked his vet to tap his belly to remove as much fluid as possible. They removed 5.2 liters. Exactly one month ago they tapped his belly and removed almost 6.5 liters. I have been tracking his weight pre and post taps and have also been conscious to have the taps done exactly the same number of days as the previous taps in order to establish some type of "baseline" regarding his weight, amount of fluid removed and number of days. While passing large amounts of blood Nico also passed what appeared to be flat elongated "things" that tappered at each end to a point. There were about 5 or 5 of them. The "things" were not pieces of bone as they were flexible and tissue like structures. They were about 4 or 5 inches in length, approx. 3/8 of an inch wide and about a 1/16 of an inch thick. I removed thes "things" from the blood puddle and placed them on a white paper towel to get a better look at them.. I brought them to the emergency vet hospital and the attending vet had no clue as to what they were. I assumed that they would save them so that Nico's regular emergency doctor could see them. My assumption was incorrest as they got thrown away!! I spoke with Nico's regular doctor and told him that I thought that they pieces of his iintestines. The doctor informed me that if Nico's itestines were cut that bad Nico would have either bled to death or would have developed a significant infection from fecal matter leaking into his body cavity. In addition to the IV's they put Nico on Metronidozal (not sure of the spelling). This was one of the meds that they put him on when they diagnosed the LGS/IBD. They doses then were small 50mg, then 75mg, then 100mg. With his most recent problem they put him on the Metro but 500mg doses. We noticed today that he does not have any bloat and his abdomen is looking like it did when he was at his powerful 100 pound weight. It almost appears that the bone marrow shards caused the "things" in his intestines to become dislodged and passed out of his body. The mega dose of the Metro, I think had a lot to do with what appears to be putting Nico on the mend. We went through all of the expensive perscription dog foods. Nico got to the point where he refused to eat this bland food. We started preparing our own food consisting of potato, beef (no fat), liver, sweet potatoes, spinich, pureed green beans, black beans, squash, and fish.

I have kind of rambled on but I think that the combination of holistic and conventional vet approach seems to work. Nico still as very loose stools. They were firming up to a thick pudding consistency but his recent marrow bone incident and the introduction of heavy doses of antibiotics has put him back into the watery stool mode because the antibiotics kill the good as well as the bad bacteria.

I hope this helps to some degree. I would still like you you forward your dogs albumin levels.

Sincerely,

Mario


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Was the marrow bone cooked or raw? Just curious about that one. 

The "things" interest me greatly. I wonder if they're the cause of his tummy trouble to date. Maybe he ate something a long time ago and they're just now coming out? Weird. Too bad the vets didn't keep them for analysis  . I would have been very interested to know what they were. I doubt they were bits of his intestines. Intestines are very gooshy and soft, not cartilage-like (as your description seems to indicate). Just buy some tripe for your dog and you'll see what intestines look like  . 

You might want to try giving him some probiotics while he's on the antibiotics (and even afterward). Even the cheap brands seem to help with the diarrhea. Or give him some plain yogurt, that can work, too.


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## izaksunami (Sep 15, 2008)

I neglected to mention that early on Nico had exploritory surgery so that the vets could take all sorts of tissue samples for testing. All of the tests came back negative. If I knew then what I know now after having hundred of hours of internet research on LGS/IBD I would have never agreed to the surgery. 

As far as Nico's "future" diet our holistic vet is looking forward to the day when she can put him on a raw diet. Raw diets are not easy for domestic dogs to get used to. The conventional dog foods that floods the market are garbage! The wheat products and glutem are the worst things that we can feed our pets. A lot of vets attribute LGS/IBD to food alergies resulting from commercial dog foods. After what we just went through with the bone marrow bone, I will never give Nico any kind of raw bones. If he needs what ever the bones contribute to his overall health I will either buy a bone grinder or substitute a powered bone meal.

To date between the conventional vet and the holistic vet we have spent in excess of $10,000.00 The holistic therapy route is extremely expensive. Some of the therapies like Nano Detox cost $30.00 for an 8 ounce bottle. For a big dog the doses that they assign the 8 ounces only lasts a few days. On our last holistic visit it cost us $940.00! The office visit was only around $120.00 The rest was for the holistic therapies. Nico has been going to the holistic vet approx every 30 to 45 days. The fees average about $800.00 per visit and this does not include his daily food that we make. The recent bone marrow incident cost us a little over $1,300.00 Obviously we love our Nico and we do without for the betterment of our boy!

Mario

The marrow bone was raw. In fact we never gave Nico marrow bones before. The introduction of marrow bones was at the direction of the holistic vet. The "things" that I referenced reminded me of anchovies!! Although I do not eat anchovies I have seen them on pizzas. The "things" were definitely not anything we were giving Nico to eat because all of the beef and liver that we prepared we ground up with a ham burger grinder. We had to grind the meet so that we could mix in the holistic powered and liquid therapies and also had to make "meatballs" for the therapy pills which amounted to about 12 pills a day.

Mario


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## felipesam (Oct 14, 2008)

Ok, maybe this will help.
My chihuahua went through a bad time of vomiting and dehydration. They thought allergies so I had an allergen panel for foods done on him. It showed an allergy to dairy and fleas. Then I had internal medicine specialists check him inside and out. They found a disease called Lymphangiectasia. It's an Intestinal Irritable Bowl that involves an accumulation of fluid in various parts of the body. Knock on wood I haven't delt with fluid retention, but the other symptoms could kill him. They put him on Purina HA (I'm not thrilled about it but it seems to help), prednizone and pepsid ac. I asked them about any holistic supplements. They gave me Purina Forti Flora to sprinkle on his food. Since I've added the Forti Flora he is healthier than ever and is down to 1/2 the prednizone every other day, so they added fish oil. The research I did talk about medium chain fats recommended Extra Virgin Coconut Oil which I've just started giving him. He looks awesome and is a playing fool. My doctor did give me home made recipes that are lowfat for intestinal disease.
*1st lamb*
6oz lean lamb, 
no corn oil,
10oz boiled white rice
1 teasp dicalcium phosphate
1 teasp light salt
1/2 capsule "Centrum" adult vitamin

You can change out the meat to...
6oz Venison
or 
6oz Rabbit

I hope this helps. I know the the probiotics are very important. You many want to ask about enzymes as well.
Good luck


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## izaksunami (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks for the input. The lymphangiectasia has similar characteristics to LGS / IBD but they are different. Nico was on Spironolactone (fuid build up preventative), Tramadol (after exploritory surgery), Rimadyl (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory), and Metronidazole (for diarrhea) and Pepcid AC. Additional meds were added when these did not work. I don't recall the others right now but they were pulling him down health wise. When we started on the holistic approach Nico went on several different "therapies." Most of these "therapies" are still in the program but at different doses. His current therapies are Pet Cod Liver Oil 2 1/2 tsp day, HM Namo Detox 12 Tsp Day, Pulmonest 45 Drops Day, System Saver ¼ Day, Whey Pro Complete 2 ½ Tbsp Day, Cataplex GTF 5 Day, Hi-Pep 4 Day, Plat Plus Essential Amino 1/2 Day, Canine Cardiac Support 4 large Day,Thymus PM 4 1/2 Day, Antronex 8 Day, Natural Hydiocortisone 60 mg day.

Since last Friday, October 10, 2008 Nico has not had any bloat or albumin build up in his abdomen and body cavity. His abdomen is no longer distended. It is tucked up in his groin area where it is suppose to be. He still has watery stools but no gas. We are praying that he has gotten over the IBD /LGS. We realize that it may be too soon to jump to this conclusion.

Mario


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