# "Only Child Syndrome"



## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

It may have a technical term, but the title is what I call "it." 

My pup, despite my best efforts, is a brat when it comes to other dogs. Now, let me clarify. She reads dogs' body language just fine, greets politely, and is a eager and polite playmate. She even takes other dogs' misbehavior and puppy rudeness well. 

BUT! She cannot share with other dogs. Attention, toys, food. She's whiney when another dog has my attention. She's snarky over sharing her toys, downright nasty when it comes to her tennis ball. And during a get-together at my SO's parents house recently, she got into a tiff with an elderly rat terrier over a couple pieces of kibble. Except a scratch on the terrier's ear, no blood was drawn, but it was a really loud scuffle. I broke it up. 

Eventually, I'd like to own a second dog. Is there any way to teach Gypsy the concept of "sharing." Haha. The food isn't a problem, really. I'll feed them separately. But I don't want snarkiness (read: fights) over toys or my attention.


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## Analogdog (Apr 3, 2012)

In short, as I am no expert, you can become the owner of all the toys and not let her own toys would help the toy sharing. Sharing you is going to be a trick and I am not sure where you would start. Dogs fighting over kibble happens often here, and can result in a vet visit, it would be nice to change that dynamic, but I just accept dogs will be dogs.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

K&G, I'm glad you posted this. Biscuit does the same stuff. She goes to doggy daycare and plays well with other dogs, but if I take her to the dog park and there's a tennis ball, I'm in for an annoying loud scuffle. She gets snippy at family gatherings where there's other dogs and food as well. She's fine with people, thankfully. I really do think this is an "only dog" thing! Dogs that aren't onlies seem to be more accepting of this stuff. I've been thinking about doing a couple of 1x1 training sessions to deal with the dog park tennis ball thing. I'm not in the market for a second dog right now, but it would be nice not to worry about this kind of thing. Maybe some training sessions would help you? One of the side effects of only owning one dog is a lack of other dogs to assist with working on problems. 

Analogdog, do you mean not let the dog have any of her own toys even at home where there are no other dogs? Interesting idea. I'm not sure if that would help in other situations but it's something to think about.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Yeah, ditto. Here's my take: I NEED my dog to be highly food-motivated and toy-motivated in order to play disc and agility. I taught her that I'm the best thing in the world. So why in the world would I expect her to be ok with sharing me, toys, or food? That seems really counter-productive. In this case, I think management is the best option.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Wally has no other dogs around, but I noticed that he's snarky and such initially, but then it tends to fad gradually, especially if he sees I'm interacting with the other dog. For him, it seems that once I touch or interact with the other dog, he becomes accepting, otherwise, he's like "why are YOU here?"

When we had to stay at someone's house because of the fire and she had cats. Wally did that snarky bit for a while, but once he saw me with the one female cat that "fell in love" with me for whatever reason (I have no idea why, but that cat just latched on to me...), Wally was okay with both of them, and basically was like "whatever..."

He does this with stray dogs or other people's dogs. I remember the next door neighbor's dog some time back - Wally would be snippy, but then after a while, they are getting along and peeing on ground near each other and sniffing together, etc. 

So maybe that's the trick? Have your dog see you interact with the other and don't stop no matter the protesting? For the stuff, I'd just get some new things and interact with both of them with the new stuff. That's more likely to be "neutral" to both instead of any existing toys having a "connection" for the existing dog, perhaps triggering an "oh no, I might lose that!" feeling?


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Yeah, ditto. Here's my take: I NEED my dog to be highly food-motivated and toy-motivated in order to play disc and agility. I taught her that I'm the best thing in the world. So why in the world would I expect her to be ok with sharing me, toys, or food? That seems really counter-productive. In this case, I think management is the best option.


That is a very pragmatic view! I guess I'd like to be able to throw a tennis ball in a soccer field with one other dog around AND have my dog run agility, but I agree there's some inconsistency there. GLM, you might have already talked about this, but how did it go with your foster? Was Kit OK with sharing her space with him?


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

> In short, as I am no expert, you can become the owner of all the toys and not let her own toys would help the toy sharing. Sharing you is going to be a trick and I am not sure where you would start. Dogs fighting over kibble happens often here, and can result in a vet visit, it would be nice to change that dynamic, but I just accept dogs will be dogs.


I've exercised Nothing-In-Life-Is-Free with Gypsy since she was a tot. If I hadn't, she'd walk all over me. She "down-stays" before meals, "sits" before going outside, "sits" before crossing the street on walks, does tricks before receiving any sort of treat or toy, etc. She has a solid "drop it" and "leave it" with me and decent obedience with other people. I would say she knows I am the owner of all things fun and tasty. The bummer is this seems not to transfer over to her attitude with other dogs. The food thing I'm okay with not fixing exactly. It's easy enough to feed dogs separately and leave no munchies lying out. 

But I have this beautiful image in my mind of throwing a tennis ball and having two eager dogs run after it, one reach it first, and have them both gallop back to me in play. Or, at the very least, have Gypsy tolerate another dog chewing on a toy she was just playing with. 



> K&G, I'm glad you posted this. Biscuit does the same stuff. She goes to doggy daycare and plays well with other dogs, but if I take her to the dog park and there's a tennis ball, I'm in for an annoying loud scuffle. She gets snippy at family gatherings where there's other dogs and food as well. She's fine with people, thankfully. I really do think this is an "only dog" thing! Dogs that aren't onlies seem to be more accepting of this stuff. I've been thinking about doing a couple of 1x1 training sessions to deal with the dog park tennis ball thing. I'm not in the market for a second dog right now, but it would be nice not to worry about this kind of thing. Maybe some training sessions would help you? One of the side effects of only owning one dog is a lack of other dogs to assist with working on problems.


Yep, Biscuit and Gyps sound alike here. I was actually considering enrolling Gypsy in a doggy daycare, thinking that more prolonged exposure to dogs might ease her behavior without specific training. But no help with Biscuit's issues, hrm? Yeah, the only dogs I have access to on a regular basis are my SO's parents', and as delightful as they are, they're not particularly well-trained. It would be unwise, I think to troubleshoot Gypsy using them. I do have local trainers and groups, though. I have been meaning to get involved...



> Yeah, ditto. Here's my take: I NEED my dog to be highly food-motivated and toy-motivated in order to play disc and agility. I taught her that I'm the best thing in the world. So why in the world would I expect her to be ok with sharing me, toys, or food? That seems really counter-productive. In this case, I think management is the best option.


Ha. You'd love Gypsy. She is HIGHLY both food and toy motivated, VERY oriented to her person (me), and hilariously and ingeniously naughty without close management. The difference between you and I, I think, is that I'm less concerned about my dog's drive and focus and more about her manners, since we don't compete. I do believe, perhaps foolishly, that a dog would be able to have all of the above, given proper training. I just lack the insight as to what that training would specifically entail.



> So maybe that's the trick? Have your dog see you interact with the other and don't stop no matter the protesting? For the stuff, I'd just get some new things and interact with both of them with the new stuff. That's more likely to be "neutral" to both instead of any existing toys having a "connection" for the existing dog, perhaps triggering an "oh no, I might lose that!" feeling?


That's a really good suggestion. The snarkiness over toys, unfortunately, occurred with toys that belonged to other dogs (with the exception of the tennis ball), but Gypsy took them out of the toy box first or started playing first. I wonder if I introduced the toy to the scene whether that would have any sort of effect. 

I wonder if one can play "trade up games" between dogs. Have dog #1 drop a high value item, i.e. tennis ball, provide a treat to #1 while commanding dog #2 to pick up the tennis ball, and so on. Hm.

Unrelated: The letter "d" on my laptop is broken. It is an enormous PITA to type a post about d-ogs when your d is broken. I've been hitting copying and hitting CTRL_V every time. So, sorry if I missed some. Haha.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

It went ok with the foster (as it does when I watch friend's dogs when they're out of town), but it takes a lot of management that I'm not used to doing on a daily basis. Frankly, I don't love to do that kind of management, and that's part of the reason I really don't see myself adding another dog to my pack any time soon. Space is never an issue with Kit (she doesn't even care about guarding her crate space), but...

Meal times were (and always will be) separate. Kit eats out of a treat ball that she rolls all over the place. I can't have another dog stealing stray kibbles while she's trying to eat. The only option is to crate the visitor. Same for treats. I can give two dogs treats simultaneously, but it won't fly if I'm treating the visiting dog and Kit isn't getting any.

At the park, I don't usually bring a ball. If someone else has a ball, I don't throw it for Kit or any other dog. She gets snarky with other dogs if she sees me with a toy in my hand and she thinks that they're going to interfere with her fetch. It's never gotten out of hand (like biting or a real fight), but she will snark in their faces to tell them off, which she would never do without a toy. If I want to practice disc, I find a place where I won't be dealing with other dogs. If one shows up, I stop and (very importantly) drop the discs on the ground to avoid the snarking behavior.

None of the visiting dogs I've had have been attention whores to the point that Kit is. Probably because I'm her person and not theirs. So I haven't had issues with a visiting dog getting more attention and her being jealous about that. Occasionally I'll find a stray dog out and about. If I'm in the car, I'll stop and look for tags and see if I can find where it belongs, or take it to the humane society. If Kit's along, she's crated in the car, but she will scream bloody murder for as long as I interact with that dog. Such a drama queen.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

> I wonder if one can play "trade up games" between dogs. Have dog #1 drop a high value item, i.e. tennis ball, provide a treat to #1 while commanding dog #2 to pick up the tennis ball, and so on. Hm.


I'm thinking not. Dogs are unpredictable. Trade-up games with humans work because there's only one dog and thus only one unpredictable element. What would you do if one of the dogs growled at the other? What would that teach the other dog?



> Unrelated: The letter "d" on my laptop is broken. It is an enormous PITA to type a post about d-ogs when your d is broken. I've been hitting copying and hitting CTRL_V every time. So, sorry if I missed some. Haha.


Happened to me, too. Try blowing the air thru the keyboard to get the dog hair out. If that doesn't work, you can plug in a different keyboard (USB).


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> Yep, Biscuit and Gyps sound alike here. I was actually considering enrolling Gypsy in a doggy daycare, thinking that more prolonged exposure to dogs might ease her behavior without specific training. But no help with Biscuit's issues, hrm? Yeah, the only dogs I have access to on a regular basis are my SO's parents', and as delightful as they are, they're not particularly well-trained. It would be unwise, I think to troubleshoot Gypsy using them. I do have local trainers and groups, though. I have been meaning to get involved...


I don't think daycare has hurt, but I don't think it's helped with this. Most daycares severely limit the guardable resources available to the dogs in order to avoid fights. If anything, maybe it makes the situation where there are other dogs around plus a toy seem even MORE rare and the toy therefore even MORE super-desirable (because that situation never happens at daycare). I don't think it normalizes a sharing-type situation any.

Biscuit will sometimes even get snippy about particularly desirable wood chips at the dog park - no joke. She is bad about ANY toy, even if it is a dirty tennis ball that lives at the dog park. I think part of it is boredom and part of it is supply-and-demand, and part of it is that Biscuit is an only child who has not learned to share. I think it's something you have to teach and I'm not super clear on how that's accomplished without having other dogs around to help, you know? It's hard to invite other dogs over for playdates when you know there might be snippiness. Like you, we have done NILIF since B was a puppy, although we have slacked a bit of late. I also suspect that since Biscuit is almost 2, maybe she's just becoming a bit bitchy in her maturity. Maybe it will last, maybe not. 

The hard part for me is that about 50% of the time, Biscuit is perfectly fine with other dogs and toys. She'll chase the tennis ball and bring it back, even if another dog is there. But the other 50% of the time, she'll chase it, then run off with it, refuse to bring it back, and loudly reprimand any dog who comes near her. Very stressful (for me AND her). I do think "trade up games" are theoretically a good way to work on it, but at least for Biscuit, I'm not sure how to make the game "easy" enough to make it effective for training. She's way past her ability-to-listen threshold when these situations occur, not to mention that high-value treats around loose dogs when Biscuit is already totally freaked out is asking for even worse trouble.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I think it's one of those things where you really need a second dog in your LIFESTYLE to truly fix it. 

Soro won't tolerate another dog touching his stuff either. But when I had Sumic, after living her her for a few days he'll let her pick up toys and such. Mind, he snarled at her at first when she tried to take his food. She was used to a trough system and that was fixed on day one. 
So that. And I think the other part of it is the _other_ dog learning when it's okay to be near another dog and when it isn't. It's up to the resident dog and the owner to teach this. After a few exercises where I rewarded both dogs at the same time and trained them both at the same time, Soro would let Sumic pick up stray kibble _inches_ from his face when he rolled his ball or when I dropped some by accident. He allowed this because he expected ME to be fair about food distribution. That's something he could only have picked up on when I taught him the rules in a two dog household.

I just don't see a practical way of fixing the problem otherwise, other than good management. Because each dog would be a new 'stranger' trying to take your dog's food, toys, etc.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I wouldn't really expect a dog to "share". Some dogs can share fine, and still be highly motivated by things. I don't think resource guarding should ever be excused with "oh but he/she is just highly motivated/drivey".

Resource guarding is something that can be worked on, and you could get to the point where two dogs can be around food and toys without being snarky with each other. They might not ever actually "share" things though, and I don't care if my dogs don't share. Which they don't, they take turns.


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