# collar/harness questions



## troglodyte (Jul 10, 2014)

:wave:

hello!

i perused the forum a bit looking for some answers but didn't quite find what i was looking for..

i'm a big fan of the martingale on my gsd, but i recently took in a pair of american bullies.. one of which has a neck much fatter than his head and he's all muscle and the martingale does not help much in that respect

i've been working with him for a few months now (he was a year old when i took him in - completely untrained in anything and very badly abused..) and i spent a while just getting him used to leash walking in general. he was completely terrified at first. both of my bullies were.. the female has taken WONDERFULLY to walking and it's so easy with her even though she has a bit of the same neck problem but not as bad

anyways.. since then he's adjusted and now he manages to escape his collar pretty easily. he tires quickly and when he decides he's tired he comes to a dead stop and the collar will just slip off, the same goes for when he's really excited and wants to run off and sniff something

so i'm thinking a collar won't work.. and i've heard a lot about harnesses encouraging pulling and he's so far been easy to correct when it comes to the pulling but he is about 100lbs of pure muscle it feels like, specifically in the chest area (we joke that he skips leg day) and i still haven't worked with him around strange dogs and the like.. so i'm unsure if he's reactive or not at the moment

does anybody have any suggestions on what would be a good route to go? i'm looking into the freedom no-pull harness and have also looked into the sense-ation harness, as well as the no-pull harness lupine carries

anybody have some firsthand experience with this?

any advice is much appreciated, thank you!

err.. also sorry if this doesn't belong in the training section? was not sure where to post.. sorry!


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Harnesses do not encourage pulling. Lack of training leads to pulling. There are also no-pull harnesses that will help with the training (EasyWalk, for example).

I honestly don't think a dog that is not trained 100% on LLW should be walked on a collar at all, but that's my personal opinion. I've walked several dogs with some serious pulling issues, all on harnesses, and honestly didn't see much of a difference when they were on a collar.

I used the EasyWalk for my AmStaff-x foster in the past. She has some serious dog reactivity (lunging/barking/trying to attack). I'm a 107 lbs person and I was able to keep her under control with just one hand (to give you an idea of how effective the harness is)  Make sure it's fitted properly though!


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Harness don't normally encourage pulling any more than most other management tools. 

I would suggest a no pull harness, there are multiple types of these from the front clip to the ones that tighten around the ribs and the ones that lift the front paws off the ground. You have plenty of choices. 

I just use a standard ruffwear webmaster harness for my dog, and she only pills when I ask her to pull. 

Training is you best friend, believe me. I'm 135# my dog is 140# and I have balance and nerve issues that don't make me as strong as the average person my size. Pulling would be bad for me.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

All of the harnesses you mentioned will make it easier to walk him. The EasyWalk is another option. I agree with not walking a dog who pulls on a collar anyway, because it can harm his neck long term.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

I had heard the same thing about harnesses promoting pulling. It was part of day 1 of obedience class and they encouraged us all to buy martingale collars. I've since heard that this isn't true. I ended up getting the Freedom No-Pull harness to use in addition to his loose leash training. Honestly, what I think I liked best about it was how short and sturdy the leash was because it gave me more control. It caused terrible matting, which probably wouldn't be a problem with your dogs and I do think it also started to change his gait, so I switched to the comfortflex. I wouldn't recommend the comfortflex for an escape artist dog though. I can say that the switch to a normal harness didn't seem to do anything to encourage pulling. The Ruffwear Webmaster harness mentioned above has been mentioned several times on the forum as a great harness for dogs who like to escape. It also looks like a good quality harness too. They also have a new harness, Front Range, that some people here have seemed happy with as well and there is a front attachment (which is supposed to help discourage pulling). 

The Easy Walk and Freedom No-Pull are very similar in concept, but between the two I decided on the freedom harness personally based on reviews and talking to people who had the harnesses.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I would not put a dog I thought might escape in an easy walk harness. It would take nothing for the dog to be out and gone. Honestly I do have a good bit of experience with dogs pulling more in harnesses. Harnesses are designed for pulling. I've had quite a few dogs that did not pull in a collar but pulled badly in a harness. The other thing to keep in mind is that a large strong dog has far more leverage in a harness than in a collar. However that being said a harness does not make a dog pull, you can train a dog to walk in anything however having control is important. I think I would opt for something like the Freedom or even just the Kong harness with the ring in the front you can clip the leash to. If you are very worried about him slipping his harness I would suggest using a double leash and clipping to his collar as well for back up. I guess what I am saying is, I don't recommend the Easy walk at all, I've used it and didn't like it. Hobgoblin learned to walk in a simple "Top Paw" brand harness that had a ring on the front but he honestly didn't need it. I think I will be buying a Ruffwear Front Range soon for Freyja to replace the Easy Walk that I hated.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I agree with everyone else that harnesses do not encourage pulling. You just need to teach LLW on a harness the same as you would a collar.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Remaru said:


> I would not put a dog I thought might escape in an easy walk harness. It would take nothing for the dog to be out and gone.


The Easy Walk is the only harness I have that Watson absolutely can't slip. Slipping out of anything clipped to the front is harder than slipping out of a rear clip harness, at least for dogs who tend to pull back.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Remaru said:


> I would not put a dog I thought might escape in an easy walk harness. It would take nothing for the dog to be out and gone. Honestly I do have a good bit of experience with dogs pulling more in harnesses. Harnesses are designed for pulling. I've had quite a few dogs that did not pull in a collar but pulled badly in a harness. The other thing to keep in mind is that a large strong dog has far more leverage in a harness than in a collar. However that being said a harness does not make a dog pull, you can train a dog to walk in anything however having control is important. I think I would opt for something like the Freedom or even just the Kong harness with the ring in the front you can clip the leash to. If you are very worried about him slipping his harness I would suggest using a double leash and clipping to his collar as well for back up. I guess what I am saying is, I don't recommend the Easy walk at all, I've used it and didn't like it. Hobgoblin learned to walk in a simple "Top Paw" brand harness that had a ring on the front but he honestly didn't need it. I think I will be buying a Ruffwear Front Range soon for Freyja to replace the Easy Walk that I hated.


Whaaa? I have never had any dog escape out of an EasyWalk. If it's fitted properly, there is no reason it should slip off. STEP-IN HARNESSES on the other hand...


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## troglodyte (Jul 10, 2014)

Thanks so much for all the responses!

My main concern was whether or not it would even hold I think or him slipping out (I had all these problems with one of my other dogs.. The trainer I was working with said that harnesses were bad because of those reasons, and that's when I switched to the martingale). He doesn't pull a lot, and when he does he's easy to correct usually, but he's still not 100% on LLW.

I've done most of our training just in our yard because of his past history (was very badly abused by a neighbor before just being abandoned all together and living on the street.. same with my other bully). He was very reactive to me just coming towards him with things in my hands, cowering etc. so we're just now venturing out since he isn't trying to RUN FROM the leash anymore and is becoming much more interested in exploring. 

So since we're just leaving the area of my yard I'm really trying to take into consideration the possibility that he may be reactive. There's a lot of strays/unfenced dogs in my area so I just wanted to be prepared in the case that he does pull, I don't want him having too much leverage on me or risk the possibility of the quick releasing popping open or him wrangling his way out. I'm still learning a lot about this dog, maybe I'm being too cautious? 

He has a large chest and broad shoulders though so I think he probably wouldn't be able to slip out so long as I make sure it's fitted properly? I think I might try the easy walk first just because of that reason.. With the way it fits I don't see it getting over his shoulders from the looks of it.

Have any of you guys had problems with chaffing? Reading about all of these harnesses that seems to be the thing that always comes up the most, and if so, any tips for helping or avoiding it?


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

You can NEVER be too cautious 

If you want extra safety, you could always hook something between the collar and harness so that if he DOES take off, at least you will be able to keep him on leash.

The Freedom Harness will not chafe because it has fleece lining. But on a GSD I don't think you will have problems with chafing.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Chafing shouldn't be an issue if the harness is fitted properly. (Tight material doesn't chafe, loose material does.) The Front Range harness is nicely padded and has smooth fabric overall, so chafing shouldn't be such an issue.

I will note this:


> he's so far been easy to correct when it comes to the pulling


You can't leash pop a harness. If that's how you're training, you'll need a new strategy, which I will be happy to help you with.

and this:

Any trainer who says things like "harnesses cause pulling" is getting major side eye from me. How is he teaching you to train?


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Amaryllis said:


> Chafing shouldn't be an issue if the harness is fitted properly. (Tight material doesn't chafe, loose material does.) The Front Range harness is nicely padded and has smooth fabric overall, so chafing shouldn't be such an issue.
> 
> I will note this:
> 
> ...


+1 This too.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

taquitos said:


> If you want extra safety, you could always hook something between the collar and harness so that if he DOES take off, at least you will be able to keep him on leash.


My dog wears a limited slip collar, so like a martingale it will tighten enough that he can't get out of it. I attach the limited slip collar to his harness with a small carabiner so if he does wiggle out of the harness, it is still attached to his collar.


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## troglodyte (Jul 10, 2014)

taquitos said:


> You can NEVER be too cautious
> 
> If you want extra safety, you could always hook something between the collar and harness so that if he DOES take off, at least you will be able to keep him on leash.
> 
> The Freedom Harness will not chafe because it has fleece lining. But on a GSD I don't think you will have problems with chafing.


I hadn't thought of that! I'll definitely look into something to clip both together, just in case. 

And this isn't so much for my GSD as it is my America Bully, although I will probably switch him over as well.. 

The chafing concerns me for my bully cause he has a lot of extra skin? I don't know how else to describe it but there's a bit of an excess for things to hug onto and rub on, it seems like.. If that makes any sense. 



Amaryllis said:


> Chafing shouldn't be an issue if the harness is fitted properly. (Tight material doesn't chafe, loose material does.) The Front Range harness is nicely padded and has smooth fabric overall, so chafing shouldn't be such an issue.
> 
> I will note this:
> 
> ...



I'd also appreciate any help I can get!

I no longer work with said trainer, they weren't much of a help actually... and there are none in my area now. I moved to a much smaller town so I'm out of luck on trainers unless I count that one guy who keeps telling people to just "pinch your dogs ear with your nail" to keep them "in line" ugh..

Right now the only thing I do is just turn and walk the opposite direction he pulls in.. Sometimes I find myself walking in circles!


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## troglodyte (Jul 10, 2014)

elrohwen said:


> My dog wears a limited slip collar, so like a martingale it will tighten enough that he can't get out of it. I attach the limited slip collar to his harness with a small carabiner so if he does wiggle out of the harness, it is still attached to his collar.


I have a ton of carabiners too (I don't know why either) so I'll definitely be doing this!


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

The easy walk is just a loop at the chest and around the body. If your dog rolls over or plants front feet and pulls backward they are out. A simple H harness is more escape proof. It also works itself loose as you walk so it is often too loose by the end of a walk (particularly in the early stages of training). Nope, I don't trust that harness on a dog that might be an escape risk. Freyja slipped it without trying, she was just doing normal puppy rolling on the ground and it came off. Freyja is not an escape risk, her harness being off meant she frisked around my feet for a while. It also seriously messed up her gait. I would opt for pretty much any of the other training harnesses over the easy walk. I also wouldn't suggest a step in harness for a dog that was an escape risk. I have a "doggie straight jacket" for my tiny escape artist and a Ruffwear webmaster for Remus. I don't worry about the other three. 

OP, I know another poster had an issue with the Freedom harness chafing her dog. It can happen, not all harnesses fit all dogs the same. You want to look for one that doesn't rub right under his "arms" and keep an eye on him.


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## Countycruiser (Sep 28, 2014)

Amaryllis said:


> Chafing shouldn't be an issue if the harness is fitted properly. (Tight material doesn't chafe, loose material does.) The Front Range harness is nicely padded and has smooth fabric overall, so chafing shouldn't be such an issue.
> 
> I will note this:
> I have tried quite a few harnesses that resulted in chafing for Miles my Vizsla I recently bought the front range harness thinking
> ...


I have tried quite a few harnesses that resulted in chafing for Miles my Vizsla I recently bought the front range harness thinking 
"this is the one" and took Miles for a run in it and it resulted in bad chafing in his arm pits. His girth size is within the med size range that I bought but maybe I don't have the leg straps tight enough? I will try to tighten them up and see if that works for him.


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## brooklynfc (Jul 8, 2014)

My pup has only had a harness from about 8 weeks old. But she has chewed threw three of them. After the third one I didn't have a spare harness so I found an old collar I bought when I first got her (she is not 7 months). She has adjusted to it well. She can't get to it to chew and I've noticed when I walk her to go potty she will not pull me as much with the collar on. I'm sure if she gets used to it, she might, but so far.........it has helped her LLW training more than anything. It might just depend on the dog.


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