# Get a dog to poop outside without treats



## RogueLegend (Sep 19, 2012)

I am the 5th owner of a 4 year old Maltese Bichon. I've had him for 2.5 years. I've trained him to do many tricks without treats (as he doesn't respond to treats, often time leaving them for days). I take him for walks 2-3x daily, for at least 20-30 minutes. Most of the time he refuses to poop outside. 

I have tried:
-Rewarding good behavior (again, he doesn't respond to treats)
-Crate training (he'd rather poop on himself than go outside at times)
-Sprinkling food where he poops (he'll eat before and after he poops in a spot)
-Taking him for longer walks (he'll just wait to go inside and poop in the house)
-Attempting to train on command(he hasn't responded to repetition of command or treats)


Please don't respond AT ALL if you're going to suggest any of the above (or say "more" or "more consistent"). You're not reading my post and responding properly. You're just wasting both of our time. I want *NEW*, *UNIQUE* methods that worked well from personal experience, not the stuff that 99.9% of dog owners know. I will likely insult and berate you if you don't follow the preceding instructions.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

RogueLegend said:


> I am the 5th owner of a 4 year old Maltese Bichon. I've had him for 2.5 years. I've trained him to do many tricks without treats (as he doesn't respond to treats, often time leaving them for days). I take him for walks 2-3x daily, for at least 20-30 minutes. Most of the time he refuses to poop outside.
> 
> I have tried:
> -Rewarding good behavior (again, he doesn't respond to treats)
> ...


And you will be treated to a ban if you do. I highly suggest you take some time to peruse the forum rules, as insults are not tolerated here, and neither is backseat moderating. You do not get to dictate the responses you get, and as this is a public forum, people are free to respond to anything you post, whether you want them to or not.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

This is usually not what's recommended, but have you tried using training pads or newspaper? If he *insists* on going inside, at least he can go on an appropriate surface.


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## RogueLegend (Sep 19, 2012)

Thank you Canyx for reading and providing an actually thoughtful response- it is appreciated.

I have tried pads, bathmats (I would be ecstatic it if he did it consistently on a bathmat), and the like. Even with consistent, extended attempted training, my results with him have been inconsistent. Since treats/toys/other rewards don't work with this dog as my other dogs- do you have any thoughts on how to get his behavior consistent?

Kuma's mom- it really doesn't make sense for you to argue freedom of response, but then limit mine, unless you're interested in something other than freedom of response. As someone who manages information (and has moderated)- repetition of the same responses drown out and make it harder to generate/find useful information (the case in this forum). I don't want to waste my time here (and I'm pretty certain you don't want your userbase to waste their time here).


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Okay this is going to sound REALLY old fashioned... But how about leaving him in a room when he's alone, and have it carpeted with potty pads? Gradually reduce the 'area' of the potty pads and hope he will eventually go on just the pad?

Also, is there ANY consistency at all regarding his pooping? Time of day? Specific part of house? And is it only pooping?


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## RogueLegend (Sep 19, 2012)

It's an interesting idea- I've never tried it- overall, I'm sure it'll have limited success. My concerns:

1) He's prone to running fits as a Bichon, pads aren't a good idea in general because he'll run and move/tear the pad.
2) I have tried the same idea, but with sticky, plastic floor protection (which you can lift off and dispose of)
3) I'm on the cusp of just covering the room with cheap vinyl flooring that I can just wipe off, rather than an ongoing investment in pads.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

I don't love your attitude at all, as "the stuff that 99.9% of dog owners know" is what works for 99.9 percent of dogs and your dog is probably not a special snowflake, but...is there something else he responds to that you can use as a reward? Playtime, attention, a favorite toy or tug session? 

Also, how is he having the opportunity to go in the house? Have you tried preventing him from having any opportunity to have an accident, by watching him so closely that he doesn't have the chance? Eventually he will have to give in to your program.

Also. What are you feeding him, and are you feeding him on a schedule or is he free fed?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

RogueLegend said:


> Thank you Canyx for reading and providing an actually thoughtful response- it is appreciated.
> 
> I have tried pads, bathmats (I would be ecstatic it if he did it consistently on a bathmat), and the like. Even with consistent, extended attempted training, my results with him have been inconsistent. Since treats/toys/other rewards don't work with this dog as my other dogs- do you have any thoughts on how to get his behavior consistent?
> 
> Kuma's mom- it really doesn't make sense for you to argue freedom of response, but then limit mine, unless you're interested in something other than freedom of response. As someone who manages information (and has moderated)- repetition of the same responses drown out and make it harder to generate/find useful information (the case in this forum). I don't want to waste my time here (and I'm pretty certain you don't want your userbase to waste their time here).


I see you did not take my advice to read the forum rules before posting, as you would be aware that arguing with mods, like backseat moderating and insulting forum members, is against the rules here. I think a time out is in order, hopefully when you come back you'll be better prepared to read forum rules and follow them.


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## nolisi (Sep 20, 2012)

Hamandeggs- I would tend to agree with you, except I have trained other dogs prior with solid success with that 99.9% knowledge I mentioned. I think you can agree that rehomed are more prone to behavioral issues than others. 

Regarding playtime- this is topic he's fussy about. He only seems to like to play in the mornings. I came home a bit ago, and although he was excited to see me, he didn't want to fetch or wrestle as he does in the mornings. 

Feeding- another fussy subject. I can leave him with food in his bowl all day and he won't touch it until I sit down to eat, or gets absolutely starving. His schedule is around 6-7 when I eat. If I eat out, I usually have to sit down to have dessert at home or snack on something after to make sure he eats. 

Watching him- this is the one area that I can't claim much consistency with. Most of the time it seems he'll wait until I'm out of the house (I know they say make sure dogs have had enough of a walk, but I've tried hour long walks before work, it's not a practical solution when he won't do it in that hour). I've had a few instances where I'll be in the shower with him locked in the bathroom with me, and he'll poop in the bathroom as I give him a firm no and send him outside- but at that point he just stops altogether and won't finish the job outside because he's just been yelled at. More commonly, he'll do it after I'm asleep in spite of the fact that we've taken a walk prior to bed.

A good anecdote about his behavior: I had company last week. Even though he ate regularly he didn't go for two days (and several walks between me and my friend), the subsequent evening I woke up in the middle of the night to a pile on the floor.

Kuma's Mum- can you clarify freedom of response? I haven't done anything to backseat moderate yet (tell you to close down/move/delete threads, silence anyone else, etc)- I merely espoused a position on data management and usefulness of information. I suppose you banned me for "arguing"- but really, I was responding to your freedom of response comment. Is this covered under freedom of response?*

*Nothing in the previous comment is an argument, nor a suggestion for any action on the part of the moderator, but rather a statement of definitions and clarification of a previous comment.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

All dogs must eat, so if the dog isn't responding to treats at all, you are most likely overfeeding him at meal times, or the treats you're using are just not good enough. Have you tried using raw chicken for obedience training and housetraining?


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

nolisi said:


> Feeding- another fussy subject. I can leave him with food in his bowl all day and he won't touch it until I sit down to eat, or gets absolutely starving. His schedule is around 6-7 when I eat. If I eat out, I usually have to sit down to have dessert at home or snack on something after to make sure he eats.
> 
> *So he gets one meal? Maybe you can try splitting it up into two meals, morning and night. Pick your times. Set the food down and if he doesn't eat 15 minutes take it back up. No food or treats, try again (same alotted food amount, don't add the ration from a previous meal) at his next scheduled feeding time. He is a small dog so I wouldn't recommend doing this long. But if he decides he wants to be picky, 24 hours without food won't hurt him. Based on your description though, it seems like he isn't likely to completely not want food, but rather he's just fussy with it. This won't fix your poop problem but I think it can help make the whole situation more predictable.*
> 
> ...


I think you should keep him in an ex pen any instant that you are not supervising (ie, when you are showering, when you are sleeping, etc). The good thing about that is you can move it around with you. Tile PART of the inside of the ex pen with potty pads (or vinyl, if you want). I think he will like more absorbant surfaces though. If he likes to go when you're not watching at least he is confined in an area and he might just choose the 'acceptable' surface. 
Regarding running and tearing the pad... Hopefully exercise and some acceptable chew toys in the pen will prevent that.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Wow. Just wow. I usually am full of advice for potty training issues, in fact I usually go on and on and on, but I'm not touching this one, because I don't want to be "insulted or berated" for failing to follow your instructions. Wow.

Ever heard that you catch more flies with honey? And, really, how much extra time does it waste for you to quickly scan through replies because you've already tried what they suggested? Jeez.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> Kuma's Mum- can you clarify freedom of response? I haven't done anything to backseat moderate yet (tell you to close down/move/delete threads, silence anyone else, etc)- I merely espoused a position on data management and usefulness of information. I suppose you banned me for "arguing"- but really, I was responding to your freedom of response comment. Is this covered under freedom of response?*


Too late for the OP and for the other (re-registered after a short warning ban) OP, but I'd suggest that 99.9% of the members here know the difference between a random member telling other members what kind of responses they will accept (and threatening insults if they are unhappy with the responses) and a moderator, charged with enforcing the forum rules, telling you what's acceptable here.

Kuma's Mom gave the OP one more chance than I would have.

Let US worry about utilization of forum resources and you worry about reading and following the rules. (On your NEXT forum, that is.)


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## zera (Feb 7, 2007)

I had a Bichon for 17 years and experienced the same thing. One day we stayed outside for six hours while I waited for him to poop outside. As soon as he came in, he went in the house. I gave up and ended up training him to go on wee-wee pads and newspaper in the mudroom. Once I did that, he never pooped anywhere other than the paper. No mistakes. Once in a blue moon, he would go on the sidewalk. I talked to another Bichon owner who ended up using kitty litter.


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## Landslyde (Dec 14, 2011)

This suggestion might seem a bit unorthodox, but it works. Have you tried the matchstick trick? Perhaps your dog just likes doing his business inside. By using the matchstick trick and making him do it outside you might just break the cycle. Here are details on the method:

Get a book of matches. They should be the soft, cardboard kind that you rip out of a book. Take your dog out for a walk and when you are in a good place for him to do his thing rip off a match. Now insert the NON-sulfur side, or the torn side of the match, into your dog's rear end. DO NOT LIGHT THE MATCH! That should go without saying, but you never know what people are thinking! Insert the match about halfway into the backside of your dog and let the rest hang out. Any further and it could go all the way inside and that would be bad news. Now wait. The dog isn't going to like having the match in his butt so he is going to want to get rid of that feeling. To get rid of it your dog will squat to try and push it out. In the process of pushing out the match your dog will make a bowel movement. I have friends who have sworn by this method. Good luck! I hope it works for you.


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## traindogs (Nov 21, 2009)

Matchstick method - are you nuts!! That is animal cruelty!

I also suspect that the treats you are offering are not sufficiently appealing to your dog. Treats or toys that are used as rewards must be of great value to the dog. I don't feed my dogs commercial foods so I give them dried liver or lung or cooked chicken (all of which they are crazy excited over). Some people also offer small pieces of chicken dog. 5 owners in his short life - no wonder this poor dog has behavior issues. You don't mention whether you've worked with a dog trainer - I would strongly recommend that you do as your attitude in this forum clearly shows that you are not very patient. I'm sure your dog must be picking up on your negative attitude.

I would agree that you need to monitor your dog very closely until you get this under control. Every time you catch him pooping indoors, say "No!" sternly and take him outside. There is no point in reprimanding him unless you catch him in the act. I never gave my dogs treats for housetraining - I made a complete fool of myself jumping up and down in excitement to let my dog know how happy I was with him.

Are you using an enzyme cleaner to thoroughly clean the area where he pooped indoors?

You also haven't mentioned whether you've had the dog examined by a vet in case there's a health related issue that's causing this behavior.

I hope you find a solution soon so this poor dog doesn't get owner #6!


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

I have a Bichon so I understand how difficult it can be to potty train them. If it's already been this long and they're still not potty trained, to be honest, I would just litter box train them. Like you would a cat.


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## traindogs (Nov 21, 2009)

chubby said:


> I have a Bichon so I understand how difficult it can be to potty train them. If it's already been this long and they're still not potty trained, to be honest, I would just litter box train them. Like you would a cat.


I have a chihuahua who is trained to use a potty pad and goes outside when it's not too cold. I'd love to be able to litter box train her but have had no success. What's your secret? I know you shouldn't use cat litter so what do you use?


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

traindogs said:


> I have a chihuahua who is trained to use a potty pad and goes outside when it's not too cold. I'd love to be able to litter box train her but have had no success. What's your secret? I know you shouldn't use cat litter so what do you use?


I found this link to a litterbox training article that I am seriously thinking about using. Eddee has been working on this with me for over 5 months now ... and he will only poop in front of the commode! I have potty trained many dogs ... but either he has a breed mix other than the Schnauzer in him that is hard to train this to ... or he just cannot get it! Lol! I am not sure how good this method is ... but looks pretty good to me .........

Slightly graphic here .... 

He has also been known to take a toy with him .........

http://www.kturby.com/litter/litter.htm


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## volito (Oct 14, 2010)

I would try play pen wee wee pad with one of the protector cases so dog can't eat pads or rip them. Also try the drops that want dogs to go in that spot, Load pad with it. And find what motivates dog maybe cut back on food or try ALL food comes from you now and the little guy will get motivatde if all food comes from your hands now . 

Hope I didn't repeat something and get bashed lol funny stuff actually never heard some one come for help and start a post like that to funny. Very knowledgable people here stick Around you'll find something for your toolbox to help your furry friend.


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## Landslyde (Dec 14, 2011)

traindogs said:


> Matchstick method - are you nuts!! That is animal cruelty!


Nope, definitely not nuts, and definitely not animal cruelty, any more than taking a dog's temperature is! I have trained and shown dogs for over 20 years and this is a method used by many people I know with toy dogs. Small dogs are notoriously difficult to house train. Many of the preferred positive reinforcement methods just don't work with the stubborn little guys. The person who posted the original plea for help was looking for suggestions she had not heard of or tried yet. I just offered another one.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

traindogs said:


> Matchstick method - are you nuts!! That is animal cruelty!


... no more 'cruel' than pee pad or litterbox training, IMPO.



I honestly don't know why some people have such a difficult time with housebreaking. I mean, like _really_... how hard can it be to apply a consistent schedule, manage the indoor environment, and REWARD for appropriate outdoor elimination ??? 
By gum , I'd almost think some dogs were idiots, incapable of learning, ... or something.





doxiemommy said:


> Wow. Just wow. I usually am full of advice for potty training issues, in fact I usually go on and on and on, but I'm not touching this one, because I don't want to be "insulted or berated" for failing to follow your instructions. Wow.


When you've alienated the forum's foremost expert for kindly and relevant advice, that says a lot. What a shame.


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## Jeepskate (Oct 31, 2011)

I think that some dogs who have gone through multiple homes in a short time (and probably were never trained properly from the start) just will not get it. I sadly had to part with one of my dogs a couple of months ago for basically the same issue (he had been through at least 2 homes before us at just barely a year old). We tried to make it work with him for almost a year and it just became intolerable, too much additional work, and not much of a life for him as he ended up spending his days alone in a kennel in the basement other than when we brought him out for walks & potty attempts and heavily supervised play time with our other dog. NONE of the standard training methods worked with him.He simply did not have the instinct not to potty in his den & he liked to eat his feces. Sometimes even if you did keep him outside long enough that he'd give in and potty, he'd promptly do it again in the house within 5-10 minutes. The reality may be that you're stuck with what you've got and you can either live with it or you can't...you simply do not know what psychological damage may have been done prior.


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

petpeeve said:


> ... no more 'cruel' than pee pad or litterbox training, IMPO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not always about the human. Each dog is an individual. And trust me, some are a lot more stubborn than others. Let's just say the first dog I had learned to pee outside in a week, and also did a reliable stay inside a bustling pet smart at the age of 3 months. Butters, on the other hand, 6 months into solid housebreaking training, and still not reliable with come or stay inside a PetSmart, though she can do those things without distractions. Every dog is different.


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