# This is why I despise kids



## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

My husband and I have never wanted kids. They don't fit in our lifestyle, and neither one of us has the patience for kids. People always tell us that we are missing out on the greatest thing in life, blah blah blah. It's our life decision, so butt out!

Now to reason # 4836728 why I hate kids.

I have an extreemly reactive Germand Shepherd. He was rescued from an ex friend of ours that had him chained up in the backyard for his entire life.

We've been working with a trainer for about 9 months now and he has come SO FAR and is doing amazing. :clap2:

He now has a doggie best friend that he loves to pieces, and we go on walks with her once a week.

Last weekend we decided that it was finally time for them to have some play time off leash. Something that we've never done before because, well, my dog can still be a total unpredictable jerk at times. :redface:

I called my trainer and he joined us just to make sure everything went well.

We decided to NOT go to a dog park, because DUH! they are terrible for reactive dogs like mine.

There is a Tennis court near my house that is all fenced in, so we headed there. When we got there, we saw that some kids were playing hockey inside the court. My trainer asked them if they would mind taking a 10 minute break so we could do some dog training, and that they could stay and watch. 

Lako was muzzled, just to make sure everyone was safe and to make sure he couldn't hurt the other dog if he panicked or decided to be a bully.
The kids came out of the tennis court, and on our way in walking past them, one of them took his hockey stick and JAMMED it in Lako's face, while yelling at him "DOGGIE DOGGIE DOGGIE!"

The hockey stick got stuck in Lako's muzzle and needless to say he had a moment of panic and yanked his head back taking the hockey stick with it. This scared the crap out of the kid as well and he freaked out.

Thankfully, Lako was unhurt and my trainer stepped in faster than I could and grabbed the hockey stick first. If I had have grabbed it first i probably would have beat the kid over the head with it without thinking first! Instead, my trainer gave the kid a mini lecture about what he just did. 

We had our offleash session and it was AMAZING!! So happy with how things went. They played, they ran, Lako was happy and I couldn't have asked for a better play session. No muzzle was actually needed. :clap2::whoo::clap2::whoo:

On our way out, of course the kids wanted to pet the dogs. They were told that they could pet Meeka (The other dog with me) because she LOVES people and attention and is a giant suck. 

They were told to leave Lako alone. I left the tennis court and was waiting on the other side for my trainer, my girlfriend and Meeka to finish up with the kids.

The one who jammed his hockey stick in Lako's face glanced up and saw us on the other side and decided he wanted to take "revenge"? He came charging at the fence where we were waiting, screaming RRRAWWWRRRRR at Lako. Thankfully I saw this coming and guided Lako away from the fence. Lako didn't even flinch at this kid's antics, just gave him a confused sideways glance and decided that training treats were more fun that this stupid kid.

Despite the stupid kid, we had a really great day. Training was perfect, play time was perfect, and at the end of the day I had a tired, content and happy pup.


The two dogs, safely away from stupid kids.


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

I wouldn't say I despise kids...I avoid them if I can, but I don't all-out hate them. And if kids are good for anything, it's to help teach us patience and self-control. Can't exactly haul off and smack one as much as some may deserve it. And sounds like you and Lako handled that one very well! That kid certainly needs to be taught some respect or he's gonna end up getting himself hurt one day.


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## SamiSaysRawr (May 26, 2012)

That's why I despise parents who are too lazy to teach their children how to act properly around dogs. -_-


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## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

That too !

The kid is going to be bit one day if he continues to act like that. I fear that he's going to run into a dog with no patience or training or even just a fearful dog and something bad is going to happen. Thankfully we already had precautions in place and nothing bad happened. I can say with 99.99% certainty that Lako would never have bitten the kid.....but he's a dog, and he has teeth in his head and I'm not an idiot. Any dog can bite, no matter how well trained. It could have been a lot worse if this had happened a year ago with no training in him (or with me).


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## ChelseaOliver (Nov 5, 2014)

SamiSaysRawr said:


> That's why I despise parents who are too lazy to teach their children how to act properly around dogs. -_-


THIS SO HARD. 

Lako, I'm sorry this happened to you and your pup! It doesn't sound like the child interactions were a good experience for him but I'm glad everything else went well. 

I used to have a chi-cavalier mix (RIP little guy) and he was small and cute and super fluffy and ALL THE TIME kids would come up and try to pet him without asking me, no parents in sight even half the time. This was a dog who was so old he was partially blind and partially deaf and he truly did not like many people. Like many chihuahuas and mixes, he was a one person dog. He would be jumping up at the kids, actually trying to bite them in the face, and the parents would do nothing, if they were even supervising their children. I would have to step in to prevent the child getting bitten by a dog who also had an infected mouth up until his dental procedure. Terrible.


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## eduller (Apr 16, 2015)

That's a case of badly trained kids! Not all kids are horrible. My 4 year old daughter knows better than that. She *always* asks before approaching a strange dog, and she *always* backs off if the owner says she can't pet said dog. And this was even before we got our puppy. Because I've taught her how to behave in the world.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Ugh, how dare humans have undeveloped offspring! Good thing I was never so undeveloped . 

I dislike the term "trained" in reference to humans, unless referring to a specific job. When used in general, it makes me uncomfortable. But really, do people not remember their own childhoods? I remember just about everything, though I'm told most people don't. And I distinctly remember doing things my parents taught me not to do, when they weren't around to enforce it. Not objectively WRONG things, just things they didn't like. And I was a frightfully timid and obedient (note: I now object to parents demanding obedience. It is NOT a valuable life skill) child; I imagine more self-assured kids did even more. 

So, I mean, parents should teach their kids how to behave around dogs, because that's a valuable life skill and pretty much the entire point of parenting is imparting valuable life skills, but there's that pesky autonomy and free will! Too bad humans don't come fully programmed . At some point kids will do stupid things, because that's an important developmental stage. Now, clearly, poking dogs with hockey sticks is stupid and dangerous, and telling him that would not be wrong. I wouldn't let an adult do it either.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

I think it's one of those "if you tell a kid about 100 times not to do something and he's still doing it, you should probably change your parenting style." 

Like Willowy, I was very obedient towards my parents, mostly my mother (you actually helped me find the term that had been escaping me! Thanks!). She wanted a kid that when she said "no" they listened without question, but also did what ever she said to. Again, like Willowy said, I have free will and autonomy, and now it's coming back to bite my mom in the butt. But one thing she did do fairly well is instill good manners, ethics and morals in me, albeit in somewhat of an unhealthy way.

When I see older kids (I'd say anywhere between the ages of 8 to preteen) who, like this one, after having had a little speech given to him by the dog trainer, will still choose to go and bug the dog? He's just a little **** who is looking to get bitten by a dog. Sometimes, kids need to learn by doing, not by being told, unfortunately we live in a society where if said child does something wrong, it's the other persons fault.

At this point, kids should be learning a sense of responsibility, as in "if I stick my finger in the electrical socket and I get electrocuted, maybe it's my own fault"


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Lako said:


> My husband and I have never wanted kids. They don't fit in our lifestyle, and neither one of us has the patience for kids. People always tell us that we are missing out on the greatest thing in life, blah blah blah. It's our life decision, so butt out!
> 
> Now to reason # 4836728 why I hate kids.
> 
> ...


AMEN to this a thousand times!!! As the owner of a cute, fluffy dog who looks like a plush toy AND doesnt like strangers, I feel your pain, believe me. You should learn to recite this phrase, its what I use when people think that just because I am in public, that means they have a right to pet my dog, no matter what I say: "My dog is mine, not yours MINE. I am not a petting zoo, and I owe you NOTHING." and I walk off. I have even told people off for staring at Lincoln because it makes him uncomfortable and scared (he is in his final fear period right now -_-).

@willowy- "Underdeveloped" is no excuse. Making that excuse for a kid acting out is the same as saying that about a dog who is running around and being obnoxious "Oh well, he's underdeveloped, he can't help it!" No ... in BOTH cases, it's the PARENT or guardian's job and if they don't do it, then I will (within reason) be HAPPY to do it for them, there is no law against telling a kid off and scaring the crap out of them, I just cant legally touch them.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Reminds me of...


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Reminds me of...


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I loved this episode


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## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

OMG that's terrible! But sooooo funny! I'm crying at work because I'm laughing so hard.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Lako said:


> OMG that's terrible! But sooooo funny! I'm crying at work because I'm laughing so hard.


Love that episode so very very MUCH!!!


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Good on lako for being so good and not reacting. If a kid did that to one of my dogs, it probably would have ended extremely bad. Sadly that kid is going to learn the hard way. It doesn't seem like he learnt anything from the experience.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> @willowy- "Underdeveloped" is no excuse. Making that excuse for a kid acting out is the same as saying that about a dog who is running around and being obnoxious "Oh well, he's underdeveloped, he can't help it!" No ... in BOTH cases, it's the PARENT or guardian's job and if they don't do it, then I will (within reason) be HAPPY to do it for them, there is no law against telling a kid off and scaring the crap out of them, I just cant legally touch them.


A -dog-? No. A puppy or adolescent? Yea, plenty of us have talked about how a certain behaviour is largely related to age and that they will grow out of it with time and consistency.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> @willowy- "Underdeveloped" is no excuse. Making that excuse for a kid acting out is the same as saying that about a dog who is running around and being obnoxious "Oh well, he's underdeveloped, he can't help it!" No ... in BOTH cases, it's the PARENT or guardian's job and if they don't do it, then I will (within reason) be HAPPY to do it for them, there is no law against telling a kid off and scaring the crap out of them, I just cant legally touch them.


Except that, unlike dogs, kids need to develop autonomy or they'll never be functioning adults. If a parent is tightly controlling a child that age, something is going to end up going very wrong (yes, personal experience :/). Kids need to make mistakes or they won't learn how things work. And, sure, being yelled at by strangers is part of that process. As long as the stranger is being reasonable, not just cranky about being inconvenienced by other human beings. If faced with unreasonable people, they just learn that some people are jerks . Which I guess is also valuable, in a way. So, no, I wouldn't have a problem with a dog owner yelling at anyone (of any age) who is repeatedly invading their dog's personal space. I would have a problem with someone yelling at anyone (of any age) for merely existing and using a public space in a manner the space is allowed to be used.

In short: I would have a big problem with someone (of any age) poking my dog with a hockey stick. I would also have a problem if I proclaimed that I hate all people in that age group (or other classification) :/.

And, yeah, let's go with the puppy analogy, why not. If someone proclaimed that your puppy is horrible and out of control and ought to be put down, just because he was jumping around at the end of his leash, biting the leash, maybe barking or whatever puppies do, possibly nipping at someone's pants leg, you would say "he's just a puppy!" There's only so much training you can do at home; the puppy has to actually get out in the real world and make mistakes and experience things in order to learn how to deal with those things.

(Oh, and I don't want kids either. But that's entirely different from hating humans of any particular age group)


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## MelTruffles (Jan 27, 2015)

I am so happy for you and Lako!! I am glad you guys had a great time despite the kids being around. 

I personally do not want kids either. Truffles has taught me that. I'd rather it just be my SO and me with our furry kids. You know? I also have 13 nieces and nephews are are great reasons not to have kids either.

Kids are a challenge when around Truffles and Sherman because they see Truffles and they IMMEDIATELY rush to them despite their parents insisting they come back to them. Truffles is okay with this by Sherman is like "the heck is this. OMG THIS LITTLE GIRL IS RUNNING TO ME AH." Truffles just rolls over for the belly rubs so naturally they go to Truffles, however, this makes Truffles excited because he knows he's about to get attention. This makes him very reactive to seeing people around him. He assumes everyone in this world was designed to give him belly rubs. It's annoying to have a 5lb giant (heh) jumping up and down and unresponsive to me cause he wants to get cuddled.

There was this one amazing exception which I have noted as the best parenting. This little girl came up to me with her dad in the distance and asked "hello miss, may I pet your dogs if you have a moment?" This child was like 5, she was very polite and did not even look at my dogs or try to touch even though Truffles was jumping towards her. I, of course, said yes and asked her to wait a moment while I got Truffles and Sherman in a sit position (what I usually do before I catch someone trying to touch them) and I let her introduce herself to them. They all had a great time together. I didn't mind spending some time with her because she was so polite. The dad allowed her to play for like 3 minutes and came over and told her that I needed to carry on with my shopping. She said "thank you very much, you have sweet puppies" and shook my hand. That was the only minute in my life I have ever considered having a child.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Alright, I'll throw a curve ball and say that I actually kind of _want_ kids and I still think that that child's behaviour was unwarranted. 

I'll throw you all another curve ball and say that I really do NOT like children, especially other peoples children. In fact, I dislike most of humanity, because I find that the world is overpopulated with the type of people who just are not good people.

All of that being said, I'm still going to have my own kids, because there's gotta be SOME smart kid out there, right?  And not all those who are little terrors as kids grow up to be terrors as adults. I try to find the good in everyone, and give people the benefit of the doubt, but I will not have my kindness mistaken for weakness. If you do something I find rude, unethical, insulting, morally unjust, I try to see where they could be coming from before I judge. Unfortunately, it is not often that I am wrong about certain people :/ but those people I just learn to ignore. What they want is someone to pay attention to them, so if you pretend they aren't there, they lose their 'powers'


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Ugh I dislike most of humanity, too and I dont venture out unless I have to. There was actually an ADULT in petsmart (it was national adoption day, so it was PACKED) that was going around with a squeak toy, squeaking it at all the dogs. I walked by the rescue booth and squeaked it at all the dogs, and he followed a golden out of the store, squeaking it (and no, there was nothing wrong with him developmentally ... he was just a jerk) He is lucky, because if he would have done that to my dog, I would have told him that if he didnt stop, I was going to shove that toy down his throat so far, he would be pooping it out later.

Age doesnt matter to me, if you are being a jerk, I am going to treat you like one, Lako, in your situation I would have flat out told that kid that if he didnt stop, he was going to regret it, and make sure no one else but me or him heard me, or make sure a very trusted friend (who would back me up when I denied it LOL) heard me.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

A grown man stopped as I was walking past with Bennie and started loudly barking at her. I think he was under the influence of something.

I just hate rude people who think a dog is an excuse to do whatever they want.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

I would have thrown the guy a stick and told him to fetch..heheheh


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Eenypup said:


> A grown man stopped as I was walking past with Bennie and started loudly barking at her. I think he was under the influence of something.
> 
> I just hate rude people who think a dog is an excuse to do whatever they want.


A guy barked at us before too!

And we got mooed at once as well.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

ireth0 said:


> A guy barked at us before too!
> 
> And we got mooed at once as well.


You have got to be kidding! What the heck people lol


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I have had more trouble with adults than children. Adults sometimes get really odd when they see dogs. I don't know if it is where I live or what but most kids either just smile and wave or ask nicely if they can pet my dogs. The only run by pettings I get are from toddlers that have escaped their parents and those are pretty rare. It isn't a big deal, all of my dogs love kids and I wouldn't have them out in an area I knew would have a lot of kids if I didn't know they would tolerate a child possibly grabbing them. Then I will have these adults that think they can grab my dog, hug my dog (who hugs a strange dog?), demand that I give them my dog (yes some one has done this, a woman actually followed me around a Christmas event demanding that I give her my dog, she was in her 50s), or argue with me about what breed my dog is. Just all kinds of weird stuff. I don't even have to be walking one of my "scary" breed dogs, walking Lad and I get "are you sure he isn't part Akita" arguments. I just expect adults to be as polite as my children.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

missc89 said:


> You have got to be kidding! What the heck people lol


I'll admit the moo left me a little dumbfounded, lol.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

ireth0 said:


> I'll admit the moo left me a little dumbfounded, lol.


I think I would have laughed at him and not been able to react any other way.



Remaru said:


> I have had more trouble with adults than children. Adults sometimes get really odd when they see dogs. I don't know if it is where I live or what but most kids either just smile and wave or ask nicely if they can pet my dogs. The only run by pettings I get are from toddlers that have escaped their parents and those are pretty rare. It isn't a big deal, all of my dogs love kids and I wouldn't have them out in an area I knew would have a lot of kids if I didn't know they would tolerate a child possibly grabbing them. Then I will have these adults that think they can grab my dog, hug my dog (who hugs a strange dog?), demand that I give them my dog (yes some one has done this, a woman actually followed me around a Christmas event demanding that I give her my dog, she was in her 50s), or argue with me about what breed my dog is. Just all kinds of weird stuff. I don't even have to be walking one of my "scary" breed dogs, walking Lad and I get "are you sure he isn't part Akita" arguments. I just expect adults to be as polite as my children.


Yup - what I am looking forward to the least. People who think they know what they are talking about. Oh! OH! Wait I have a quote for this... "it's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but its darn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person"

Also someone seriously tried to get you to give them your dog? Seriously!? If someone did that to me, I think I'd be staring at them blankly and the only thing that would be able to come out besides hysterical laughter is "Seriously?"


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## Kingfisher (Jan 2, 2015)

That episode of South Park kills me every time. It combines my two loves of mocking Cesar and mocking poorly behaved kids. 

I am also in the "never want kids" camp. I really, really don't like being around the vast majority of them. Mostly because I understand that they do stupid things in order to learn, but I still don't like it. It's not like I dislike people because they're under a certain age, it's that their habits make me uncomfortable. It's like my mutual respect of animals that I don't care for. Snakes eat rats, it's completely normal. But I'd rather take my pet rats and avoid snakes, because they make me uncomfortable. Snakes are still awesome, I just don't really want to spend my time with one. Kids are awesome too, but I still don't want one of those either.  Everyone has a different threshold. Some people don't want a dog because they're loud, messy, and difficult to control. Others don't want a kid because they're loud, messy, and difficult to control.  I'm not bothered when people don't like dogs, I get it. 

I think I told this story here before. But I was in a Home Depot in the self check out with Keeper, who was nicely sitting in a heel. I'm fiddling with the machine when I feel a tug on the leash. I turn around to see a 4 or 5 year old boy LAYING on Keeper, giving him a hug. The kid is so incredibly lucky that Keeper is a kid sponge. Even worse, the parents were just standing 15 feet away smiling. Unfortunately they didn't speak English, so I was unable to give my lecture on proper dog greeting etiquette.

But I have a good parent story! I was at a horse show where a mom had 3 kids with her, probably 2, 3, and 5. Her oldest daughter was obviously obsessed with dogs, she'd get SO excited at every dog she saw. The mom had obviously dealt with this for years, and her brilliant solution was that her daughter could wave at every dog. But no touching unless the owner offered. She didn't allow for her to ask to pet the dog, she had to be invited. I've had so many kids "ask" to pet while moving in for the kill. I thought this was the smartest thing ever. Her daughter got to interact with every dog and it wouldn't be bothersome to any dog owners. Everyone was left happy!


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Kingfisher said:


> But I have a good parent story! I was at a horse show where a mom had 3 kids with her, probably 2, 3, and 5. Her oldest daughter was obviously obsessed with dogs, she'd get SO excited at every dog she saw. The mom had obviously dealt with this for years, and her brilliant solution was that her daughter could wave at every dog. But no touching unless the owner offered. She didn't allow for her to ask to pet the dog, she had to be invited. I've had so many kids "ask" to pet while moving in for the kill. I thought this was the smartest thing ever. Her daughter got to interact with every dog and it wouldn't be bothersome to any dog owners. Everyone was left happy!


That is a really awesome story!! Thank you for sharing!


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Kingfisher said:


> But I have a good parent story! I was at a horse show where a mom had 3 kids with her, probably 2, 3, and 5. Her oldest daughter was obviously obsessed with dogs, she'd get SO excited at every dog she saw. The mom had obviously dealt with this for years, and her brilliant solution was that her daughter could wave at every dog. But no touching unless the owner offered. She didn't allow for her to ask to pet the dog, she had to be invited. I've had so many kids "ask" to pet while moving in for the kill. I thought this was the smartest thing ever. Her daughter got to interact with every dog and it wouldn't be bothersome to any dog owners. Everyone was left happy!


Kinda the same method to train dogs...hahaha! Don't let THEM decide they're going to do something...they need direct permission. Good mommy - very good!


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

Though I don't despise the kids, I do look at it as very poor parenting, going to say he only did it because the dog was muzzled and he knew he could not get bitten.

Mouse is great with kids but I've had a 14 or 15 year old boy yank his ear once, while Mouse did not snap at the kid or get the crease up his neck, he whipped around and gave him a warning bark, to which or course lead to your dog is trying to attack me, told him then don't grab other peoples dogs roughly.

Later on the way back got to meet the kids father who tried to give me crap with I'll call the cops if I see you walking that dog around here speech. Told him go ahead, and he could learn why the dog is the last thing he needed to worry about hurting his son or him. 

Most likely the same bad parenting and the parent is no better.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

MastiffGuy said:


> Though I don't despise the kids, I do look at it as very poor parenting, going to say he only did it because the dog was muzzled and he knew he could not get bitten.
> 
> Mouse is great with kids but I've had a 14 or 15 year old boy yank his ear once, while Mouse did not snap at the kid or get the crease up his neck, he whipped around and gave him a warning bark, to which or course lead to your dog is trying to attack me, told him then don't grab other peoples dogs roughly.
> 
> ...


It's part of the whole "my kid is an angel it must be YOUR kid who's the terror". Parents seem to be completely unable to accept that their children are anything but perfect. "They're perfect in MY eyes so they MUST be a perfect child! MY child does NO WRONG!"

I was badly bullied (to the point of suicide) at the age of 12 by some idjit who was my (then) ex-best friend and her father of a cop had the nerve to call me and yell at me for what _I_ was doing to _his_ daughter. Boy I would have loved to see the look on his face when he got a call from the principle of my school saying his daughter is literally one dumb comment away from being expelled and charged with slander. AT TWELVE!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Remaru said:


> I have had more trouble with adults than children. Adults sometimes get really odd when they see dogs. I don't know if it is where I live or what but most kids either just smile and wave or ask nicely if they can pet my dogs. The only run by pettings I get are from toddlers that have escaped their parents and those are pretty rare. It isn't a big deal, all of my dogs love kids and I wouldn't have them out in an area I knew would have a lot of kids if I didn't know they would tolerate a child possibly grabbing them. Then I will have these adults that think they can grab my dog, hug my dog (who hugs a strange dog?), demand that I give them my dog (yes some one has done this, a woman actually followed me around a Christmas event demanding that I give her my dog, she was in her 50s), or argue with me about what breed my dog is. Just all kinds of weird stuff. I don't even have to be walking one of my "scary" breed dogs, walking Lad and I get "are you sure he isn't part Akita" arguments. I just expect adults to be as polite as my children.


I find more stupid and clueless people in pet speciality stores than places like, say, TSC or home depot/ Lowes. when we go into non pet speciality places where pets are allowed (I am working very hard on socializing Lincoln), most people ignore us or say hi to him as they pass by. The only exception would be some of the employees, they can be a bit dumb LOL.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

missc89 said:


> I think I would have laughed at him and not been able to react any other way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I just didn't know what to even say. The first time I thought it was some sort of weird compliment and I sort of laughed it off and went on my way. I was talking to the volunteers at the animal shelter booth about how I had adopted him and the time we had put in with training ect when she started saying how she wanted to adopt a dog, how well behaved he was and if I could take a shelter dog and make him so well behaved in such a short time maybe I should just give him to her and adopt another. Ok, pretty weird but whatever. Then she just kept following me around. It was our city's big Christmas event so all of the stores in down town are open with arts and crafts for the kids, an elf scavenger hunt, pictures with Santa, the big Christmas tree lighting, parade, whole nine yards. I'm trying to take pics of my kids and enjoy doing things with them while she is following me around saying stuff like "there is the woman with MY DOG" and "That dog is going home with me tonight" or "you can always adopt another dog, you don't need THAT DOG." She even followed us to lunch! I have horrible social anxiety and I completely froze. It wasn't one of my break through manic days or I probably would have said something unfortunate to her (hubby calls them my b*%$^ days). When hubby met us at the diner for lunch he managed to get rid of her but it was so crazy. 



OwnedbyACDs said:


> I find more stupid and clueless people in pet speciality stores than places like, say, TSC or home depot/ Lowes. when we go into non pet speciality places where pets are allowed (I am working very hard on socializing Lincoln), most people ignore us or say hi to him as they pass by. The only exception would be some of the employees, they can be a bit dumb LOL.


Pet Supplies Plus is pretty good, mostly because it is small and quiet inside. Not a whole lot of people milling around and the employees are good. I don't mind going there to just walk around for a while, plus they don't do training there so there isn't a trainer wandering around/stalking me trying to convince me I need their services. I hate going to Petsmart, I swear the trainer is worse than any of the people shopping. At the one closest to me the trainer will stalk you and interrupt whatever you are doing to tell you why you are wrong and try to sell training. Ugh. TSC is usually pretty safe, and I've never had issue at Lowes. I get some "that is a big puppy" comments and that's about it. LOL


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

The only time I like kids is when they are 3-5 years old. Younger and they cry a lot and you can't make them understand you, older and they become willful and annoying. Sometimes they have a good period around 9-13 years old. Then it's god awful puberty. 

I've been known to glare at kids (and teenagers) wanting to annoy my dog. Two weeks ago some 15 year old scared the hell out of Mike suddenly jumping at him. He didn't think it was so funny anymore when I suddenly turned to stare him down. If looks could kill... 

Polite kids are welcome to come near though. If they are polite enough to ask, they'll usually pet the dog politely as well.


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

Once I went to the shop with my three dogs(had only three at that time) and as the shop doesn't allow dogs I tied them next to cash desks,most of the sellers did know us,so I didn't worry about them being stolen,besides I was going for just for a bottle of water,so that was going to be quick.So I tie them (in a shot leash,so they don't bother people passing by) and leave,then I see a mother with three kids coming.The kids of course get excited about the dogs,the mother did see me tying them there,so she must have seen that I was standing near.I hear the kids asking if they could pet them.That woman didn't even consider asking me if they could,instead she just said-yes,you can,they are friendly. I didn't know that woman,she didn't know me or the dogs-how can she tell that? So all three kids start running towards my dogs,who started to bark their heads of,because they don't like strange people,Then they walked away saying that they are mean dogs.No,they are not mean they just don't like strange people who run at them screaming.
Many people at bus stops try to make friends with my dogs.If I'm whit Fanta she usually gives them a big smile when they try to pet her.
Of course some people have asked me to give them one of my dogs,one asked me if no one is buying them and looked very shocked when I told I'm not even selling them.
But mostly people in Latvia are afraid of dogs. Maybe because we are post Soviet Russia country and at times Latvia where a part of it,people loved aggressive dogs,many people still thinks that aggressive is the best and only the new generation thinks different


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## 2Dogfarm (Apr 23, 2015)

It's one thing for children to have poor manners, but you really kicked them out of the tennis court so you could train your dogs?


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

Sorry 2Dogfarm I'm guessing that's sarcasm. The OP asked them before using the court, and think both owner and dog handled it very well. 

As truth be told I would not have and most likely snapped the kids hockey stick in 2.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Yeah I blame the adult supervising the kids (there was one right)...people are idiots.... Reminds of the day some guy pulled into a driveway/ not his/ blocking it (busy SF, busy sidewalk) so I had to walk my dogs around his car, and he commented about how the dogs made him nervous, and that dogs were dangerous/ a menace to society... this was during that time that kids were going missing (5-year-old Samantha Runnion in LA, Elizabeth Smart etc...).... and I said are you kidding, like some random obnoxious dude aint? Really sometimes people don't have a sense of perspective, or sense... at all....
Ok so I digress... thoughts... sorry this happened/ yeah kids are fairly random, they are learning and need to be managed, but yeah kinda necessary...

And the dogs (especially Lako) just beautiful! Keep up the training and socialization!! (have a couple fairly reactive dogs over here too)..

PS when your dog looks like this, its hard to keep people away...(these are my 2 reactive ones, the one in front obviously is the one people come running to and he is skittish as heck)


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

Yeah, kids can suck sometimes. I have two grown kids and the oldest was a handful. People who say that if your kid doesn't listen, you should try something else? They either don't have children or were lucky enough to have easy children who were eager to please. 

That being said, children are just *people* who have yet to figure out how to behave in the world. They won't learn unless people actively teach or model proper behavior. That includes kindness, both to animals and to other people. 

And since kids are just people, some of them will be pathological in nature and will never really learn how to behave. That's how you end up with adults who moo at you in public.

I don't think it's okay to openly hate any group of people based on the nature of a few. Replace the word "kids" with any other subgroup of people in this sentence..."This is why I really despise _______." How does it sound? Ageism, classism, sexism, racism.....none of it is okay, and hopefully today's youth are learning less of it from the adults they encounter.

Wag more, bark less.


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## 2Dogfarm (Apr 23, 2015)

MastiffGuy said:


> Sorry 2Dogfarm I'm guessing that's sarcasm. The OP asked them before using the court, and think both owner and dog handled it very well.
> 
> As truth be told I would not have and most likely snapped the kids hockey stick in 2.


No, I would not have taken kindly to a child tormenting my dog. But I do think OP should have waited her turn to use the court. I'm betting OP would not have asked adults to stop their game while OP trained her dogs in the court.


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## Galathiel (Apr 11, 2012)

It was actually a bit presumptuous. What answer did you expect the kids to give three adults when approached and asked if they could leave for ten minutes because the grown ups needed it? Doesn't mean that they WANTED to or would be feeling particularly gracious about it. I doubt they would have done the same if adults had been using the courts.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

SamiSaysRawr said:


> That's why I despise parents who are too lazy to teach their children how to act properly around dogs. -_-


Yeah, but we see it time and again - many adults have no clue how to appropriately approach/interact with a dog. Hard to teach your kids how to act around dogs if you don't know yourself.


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## Joy Job (May 20, 2015)

'despise' very hard word for any good thing in this universe..


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

2Dogfarm said:


> No, I would not have taken kindly to a child tormenting my dog. But I do think OP should have waited her turn to use the court. I'm betting OP would not have asked adults to stop their game while OP trained her dogs in the court.


I actually agree with this. While the way the kid was acting was far from acceptable, so was technically kicking them out to let a dog run around in there. I've used tennis courts in the past to let my dogs run around in as well (ironically when I myself was a kid), but if they were in use, I'd always passed them up, and if someone wanted in while we were there, we would leave immediately. That's really not what Tennis Courts are for, and it's kind of rude in itself to interrupt a game, kids or not, so you can let your dogs run around.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

RCloud said:


> I actually agree with this. While the way the kid was acting was far from acceptable, so was technically kicking them out to let a dog run around in there. I've used tennis courts in the past to let my dogs run around in as well (ironically when I myself was a kid), but if they were in use, I'd always passed them up, and if someone wanted in while we were there, we would leave immediately. That's really not what Tennis Courts are for, and it's kind of rude in itself to interrupt a game, kids or not, so you can let your dogs run around.


Agreed. Tennis Courts aren't really supposed to be used for off leash dog training, if you're going to use it that way, use it when there isn't anyone currently using them. 

The OP should have found somewhere else to do the training.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Remaru said:


> Yes, I just didn't know what to even say. The first time I thought it was some sort of weird compliment and I sort of laughed it off and went on my way. I was talking to the volunteers at the animal shelter booth about how I had adopted him and the time we had put in with training ect when she started saying how she wanted to adopt a dog, how well behaved he was and if I could take a shelter dog and make him so well behaved in such a short time maybe I should just give him to her and adopt another. Ok, pretty weird but whatever. Then she just kept following me around. It was our city's big Christmas event so all of the stores in down town are open with arts and crafts for the kids, an elf scavenger hunt, pictures with Santa, the big Christmas tree lighting, parade, whole nine yards. I'm trying to take pics of my kids and enjoy doing things with them while she is following me around saying stuff like "there is the woman with MY DOG" and "That dog is going home with me tonight" or "you can always adopt another dog, you don't need THAT DOG." She even followed us to lunch! I have horrible social anxiety and I completely froze. It wasn't one of my break through manic days or I probably would have said something unfortunate to her (hubby calls them my b*%$^ days). When hubby met us at the diner for lunch he managed to get rid of her but it was so crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> Pet Supplies Plus is pretty good, mostly because it is small and quiet inside. Not a whole lot of people milling around and the employees are good. I don't mind going there to just walk around for a while, plus they don't do training there so there isn't a trainer wandering around/stalking me trying to convince me I need their services. I hate going to Petsmart, I swear the trainer is worse than any of the people shopping. At the one closest to me the trainer will stalk you and interrupt whatever you are doing to tell you why you are wrong and try to sell training. Ugh. TSC is usually pretty safe, and I've never had issue at Lowes. I get some "that is a big puppy" comments and that's about it. LOL


Yes, I know the Pet Supplies plus you are talking about I think and yes, all of the Pet Supplies plus I have been in have been really great full of really knowledgeable people! I hate to sound conceded and I really don't mean to, but its very annoying when I know more than the employees at pet speciality stores :/.

And that's crazy about the trainer at petsmart! I have never even seen one at any of the petco's or petsmart's I have been in ... maybe it is timing? Usually my dogs are so well behaved, other customers usually mistake ME for the trainer haha (true story).



Avie said:


> The only time I like kids is when they are 3-5 years old. Younger and they cry a lot and you can't make them understand you, older and they become willful and annoying. Sometimes they have a good period around 9-13 years old. Then it's god awful puberty.
> 
> I've been known to glare at kids (and teenagers) wanting to annoy my dog. Two weeks ago some 15 year old scared the hell out of Mike suddenly jumping at him. He didn't think it was so funny anymore when I suddenly turned to stare him down. If looks could kill...
> 
> Polite kids are welcome to come near though. If they are polite enough to ask, they'll usually pet the dog politely as well.


Me too!!! I have been told I have a glare that could kill LOL, and I am like my late old dog ... a glare is all the warning you get before I "bite" LOL



RCloud said:


> I actually agree with this. While the way the kid was acting was far from acceptable, so was technically kicking them out to let a dog run around in there. I've used tennis courts in the past to let my dogs run around in as well (ironically when I myself was a kid), but if they were in use, I'd always passed them up, and if someone wanted in while we were there, we would leave immediately. That's really not what Tennis Courts are for, and it's kind of rude in itself to interrupt a game, kids or not, so you can let your dogs run around.





SydTheSpaniel said:


> Agreed. Tennis Courts aren't really supposed to be used for off leash dog training, if you're going to use it that way, use it when there isn't anyone currently using them.
> 
> The OP should have found somewhere else to do the training.


What? she POLITELY ASKED to use the court ... for 10 minutes! they probably had been using it all day, what is ten minutes! I mean they could have taken a breather, gotten some water, snacks etc ... but noooooo ... they had to be little gremlins about it -_-.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> What? she POLITELY ASKED to use the court ... for 10 minutes! they probably had been using it all day, what is ten minutes! I mean they could have taken a breather, gotten some water, snacks etc ... but noooooo ... they had to be little gremlins about it -_-.


You have no idea how long they had been there for - it could've been 5 hours or 5 minutes. Just because they are younger than the OP doesn't mean they had any less right of access to a public space, regardless of how long they were there prior to the OP arriving.

Yes, the OP was polite about it, and maybe if it had been adults using the court maybe she would've asked them regardless (I'm not her so I can't say what she would or would not have done). The difference though is that asking other adults is two peers asking each other, whereas when you ask younger people there is a definite imbalance of power. Kind of like starting a new job and then your new boss coming up to your desk and asking you to get them a coffee. Sure, you could say "no", but it's really not a big thing and there is a real possibility that declining (even if you don't reasonably have to) might have a negative impact on your employment in the future. Would it be silly and petty of your boss to make a big thing of you declining to be their barista? Yes. But that doesn't stop it from being a possibility, because sometimes people suck and unless you know the person it can be hard to know whether that person will be sucky or not.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Yeah, definitely not something I personally would do, and it is rude and unfair the kids. Of course that does nothing to excuse his behavior, as it was not only disrespectful but downright dangerous. But was OP entirely in the right to "suggest" to kids that they use the courts for dog training? Imo, no. The kids likely felt compelled to leave and that could easily have annoyed them enough to think that being rude was a good idea.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Tennis courts, baseball fields, basketball courts, etc. are not meant for dog training or play. I'll use them for that purpose if they're empty, but I'll never ask someone playing sports to leave so I can let my dogs loose. 

I agree that the kid was way out of line. But I don't think that this situation should have even had the chance to happen in the first place.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> You have no idea how long they had been there for - it could've been 5 hours or 5 minutes. Just because they are younger than the OP doesn't mean they had any less right of access to a public space, regardless of how long they were there prior to the OP arriving.
> 
> Yes, the OP was polite about it, and maybe if it had been adults using the court maybe she would've asked them regardless (I'm not her so I can't say what she would or would not have done). The difference though is that asking other adults is two peers asking each other, whereas when you ask younger people there is a definite imbalance of power. Kind of like starting a new job and then your new boss coming up to your desk and asking you to get them a coffee. Sure, you could say "no", but it's really not a big thing and there is a real possibility that declining (even if you don't reasonably have to) might have a negative impact on your employment in the future. Would it be silly and petty of your boss to make a big thing of you declining to be their barista? Yes. But that doesn't stop it from being a possibility, because sometimes people suck and unless you know the person it can be hard to know whether that person will be sucky or not.


Boy, that is sure a big deal to make about asking to use a tennis court for 10 minutes


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Boy, that is sure a big deal to make about asking to use a tennis court for 10 minutes


You don't know anything about the kids involved or their schedules or family lives. It's entirely possible that they were only allowed 30 minutes of play time that day. It's possible that one of them had just gotten off being grounded or something and had been stuck at home for a week. The kid who caused the trouble might come from an abusive family and resents adults who impose upon him. Or he might come from a large family where he always has to share and gets sick of it.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Boy, that is sure a big deal to make about asking to use a tennis court for 10 minutes


I agree with the others, we have a tennis court nearby that I have used for training before. However, I would never ask someone currently using it to leave so I could use it. I don't fancy myself so high and mighty that other people should stop what they're doing so I can do what -I- want. Not to mention that dog training isn't what a tennis court is there for. 

I might make a loop around the block and come back to see if it was still in use, but if not then I would just go back home and go back another time/day.

If we were in there doing dog stuff and someone came that obviously wanted to play tennis, I would just leave, no request necessary.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Boy, that is sure a big deal to make about asking to use a tennis court for 10 minutes


It wasn't a "big deal" over someone asking to use a tennis court; it was a "big deal" about someone acting entitled (albeit likely subconsciously) to use public property that was currently in use by someone who had just as much right to use it, but less social power.


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## watch4whales (May 24, 2015)

Cute babies!!! That's why kids get bit. Especially with strange dogs they don't know.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> What? she POLITELY ASKED to use the court ... for 10 minutes! they probably had been using it all day, what is ten minutes! I mean they could have taken a breather, gotten some water, snacks etc ... but noooooo ... they had to be little gremlins about it -_-.


No one is excusing the way the kid was acting, but yes, it's extremely rude to interrupt a game in a Tennis court, which is for HUMAN USE, to let your DOG run around and play. 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour...doesn't matter how long. Tennis courts weren't made for that purpose, and your dog doesn't have the right over people that are using it for it's actual intended purpose. And I agree, if it had been adults in there having a game, I'm willing to bet they wouldn't have asked. Same thing goes for baseball fields. There are some park districts that will kick you out if you're in there with a dog even if the courts aren't in use.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I really just hate parents that don't supervise their kids. Kids are kids and don't always know the smartest thing to do so they need adults to teach them and also supervise them.

We had an incident at the agility trial yesterday with two kids (no parents around, they were at a nearby soccer event) trying to unzip crates and let dogs out.  I can't imagine a parent letting their kids roam unsupervised at a dog show.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> I really just hate parents that don't supervise their kids. Kids are kids and don't always know the smartest thing to do so they need adults to teach them and also supervise them.
> 
> We had an incident at the agility trial yesterday with two kids (no parents around, they were at a nearby soccer event) trying to unzip crates and let dogs out.  I can't imagine a parent letting their kids roam unsupervised at a dog show.


Oh absolutely. I think we can all agree that people who allow their kids to just run around and be rude little brats to people and their dogs fail at parenting. But for kids who are initially minding their own business, I also find it extremely rude to ask them to leave an area they have every right to be in, that a dog does not so you can train your dog.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

MollyM said:


> You don't know anything about the kids involved or their schedules or family lives. It's entirely possible that they were only allowed 30 minutes of play time that day. It's possible that one of them had just gotten off being grounded or something and had been stuck at home for a week. The kid who caused the trouble might come from an abusive family and resents adults who impose upon him. Or he might come from a large family where he always has to share and gets sick of it.


Well, the sooner they learn that the world isn't fair, thr better IMO. 



ireth0 said:


> I agree with the others, we have a tennis court nearby that I have used for training before. However, I would never ask someone currently using it to leave so I could use it. I don't fancy myself so high and mighty that other people should stop what they're doing so I can do what -I- want. Not to mention that dog training isn't what a tennis court is there for.
> 
> I might make a loop around the block and come back to see if it was still in use, but if not then I would just go back home and go back another time/day.
> 
> If we were in there doing dog stuff and someone came that obviously wanted to play tennis, I would just leave, no request necessary.


I guess I don't understand the stigma of politely asking to use the court for 10 minutes! And it does seem like everyone is overlooking the fact that this kid was a total brat!

And yes I have had kids, who were at another event come and wonder around the dog show ... I caught one trying to feed something to a dog, no parents in sight ... I told them to get lost.


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Well, the sooner they learn that the world isn't fair, thr better IMO.


The world not being fair is not an excuse to treat children like second-class citizens just because they're younger than you. This is an example of narcissism.



> I guess I don't understand the stigma of politely asking to use the court for 10 minutes! And it does seem like everyone is overlooking the fact that this kid was a total brat!


Actually, if you go and READ all of the posts without projecting your own feelings onto them, you'll see no such thing. Nobody is excusing the kid's behavior. There is no excuse for what the child did, but there probably ARE reasons. If you _still_ don't understand why it's messed up for an adult to "ask" children to leave someplace so that the adult can use it for their dog, then I don't think you ever will. 



> And yes I have had kids, who were at another event come and wonder around the dog show ... I caught one trying to feed something to a dog, no parents in sight ... I told them to get lost.


As much as I believe that children should be supervised and taught, isn't anyone supervising the dogs at dog shows? Why would you let your star animal be unsupervised around hundreds of strangers?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Ah yes children can't go to dog shows now... the horror


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

To reverse it, it would be like you being at a dog park and your dogs were playing, and then some people come and ask you to stop for 10 mins because they want to play soccer.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

MollyM said:


> The world not being fair is not an excuse to treat children like second-class citizens just because they're younger than you. This is an example of narcissism.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol I guess you have never been to a dog show before. .. sometimes you have to leave them you know, to get something to eat, or to register for a class etc ... plus dogs need quiet time, too! 

@ Kayota no one is saying kids shouldn't be allowed at dog shows ... but these kids came from another venue UNSUPERVISED, but yes I do wish they had an age limit.


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

No, I've never been to a dog show. I can think of about 500 other things I'd rather do. 

You expect parents to have their kids under their watchful eye 100% of the time. If a dog needs quiet time or to be left without supervision, I would expect the dog to be put in an area inaccessible to the general public. Do you just tie the dog and leave it? How do children get to your unattended dog at a dog show? Did they break into your private area? Is there no secure place in which to leave a dog?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

MollyM said:


> No, I've never been to a dog show. I can think of about 500 other things I'd rather do.
> 
> You expect parents to have their kids under their watchful eye 100% of the time. If a dog needs quiet time or to be left without supervision, I would expect the dog to be put in an area inaccessible to the general public. Do you just tie the dog and leave it? How do children get to your unattended dog at a dog show? Did they break into your private area? Is there no secure place in which to leave a dog?


I still think it is a bit amusing that you feel you know enough to comment and tell me how it should be done when you have never even been to a dog show, but whatever, ok.

I guess you missed the part where dogs were in crates? they WERE secured, many dog shows are held at places that host other things, like pavilions, and fairgrounds etc ... and it is not all too uncommon for more than one event to be going on at any one time there, which I don't blame the event property owner for, that is how they make their money. 

Many people DO put their dogs away from the general public, many bring portable canopies and awnings they set up, and some even put ex pens and other fencing around their area to make it inaccessible to the general public. The kid I was was trying to climb over the ex pen fencing to get to the dogs, so yeah, I told him, flat out to "get lost", and he did. It's also not just about quiet time, if you run / show more than one dog (and MANY people do) then there is NO WAY you can take both with you, you will have to leave one, unless you have an idea that solves this, I would very much like to hear it.

I also don't think it is far fetched to ask parents to have 100% control and supervision over their kids, THEY chose to have them, it is their responsibility, and with all that can happen to a kid nowadays, I am surprised that a parent would say "You expect parents to have their kids under their watchful eye 100% of the time."


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I also don't think it is far fetched to ask parents to have 100% control and supervision over their kids, THEY chose to have them, it is their responsibility, and with all that can happen to a kid nowadays, I am surprised that a parent would say "You expect parents to have their kids under their watchful eye 100% of the time."


Um.. yea no. 1) Parents have other things to do than watch their kids 24/7. Like working, and doing household chores. 2) Kids need to be allowed some freedom to make mistakes so they learn. You can't tell a kid what to do every second of the day. They need to learn and discover and make mistakes in order to grow as a person. 3) If my mother had wanted to have 100% control and be involved in EVERTHING I DID once I got past a certain age (like 5-6) I would have gone crazy.


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I still think it is a bit amusing that you feel you know enough to comment and tell me how it should be done when you have never even been to a dog show, but whatever, ok.
> 
> I guess you missed the part where dogs were in crates?


I'm asking questions precisely because I *don't* know. I'm not sure why you have such an attitude about answering. If you don't want to answer my questions, then just don't. Nobody is telling you how to do anything.

And yes, I *missed* the part where they were in crates because you _*never said*_ as such.

Thank you for providing enough detail now that your story is clear.

And no, I don't think children should be hovered over every single minute. That's how you raise helpless adults. "Stranger danger" is largely overblown hysteria. Most kids who are abducted are taken by someone they know and trust.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I also don't think it is far fetched to ask parents to have 100% control and supervision over their kids, THEY chose to have them, it is their responsibility, and with all that can happen to a kid nowadays, I am surprised that a parent would say "You expect parents to have their kids under their watchful eye 100% of the time."


The world is no more dangerous for children now than it was decades ago; the only thing that is different is that the world is more connected so we hear about ALL of the bad things happening all over the world, instead of just the few bad things happening to those close to us (socially or geographically).

I do not plan to have "100%" control over my children when I am a parent: first, because that totally prevents the child from making their own mistakes which is how people learn, and second because I recognize that they're not tiny robot-clones, and second, it is totally unrealistic because children have free-will and the ability to make their own choices and that - just like adults! - sometimes those choices will not be the right ones.

Children are basically just puppies. You can set them up for success, and do everything to make sure they make the right choices, but you cannot control _everything_ they do.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> To reverse it, it would be like you being at a dog park and your dogs were playing, and then some people come and ask you to stop for 10 mins because they want to play soccer.


Except in most cases, small kids arent allowed at dog parks, while in most cases, dogs are allowed at general parks. Now, if the tennis court had a sign saying dogs werent allowed, then yes, the OP would be completely in the wrong, they didnt state whether or not it do, so I dont know if it did or not.



MollyM said:


> I'm asking questions precisely because I *don't* know. I'm not sure why you have such an attitude about answering. If you don't want to answer my questions, then just don't. Nobody is telling you how to do anything.
> 
> And yes, I *missed* the part where they were in crates because you _*never said*_ as such.
> 
> ...


It wasn't me who said dogs are in crates at dog shows and dog sporting events, it was this person, who I quoted below, not to single them out, their experience was just very similar to ones I have experienced. 

I still find it amusing that you pass judgement regarding dog shows, sporting events and the people who attend them when you know nothing about them and have no interest in learning anything about them. If you cared to read anything about the subject you are debating, then you would know that in general, dogs are in crates or ex pens at dog shows, in fact, at many dog event venues, it is REQUIRED that dogs be on a leash at all times (except when in competition) or in a crate when unsupervised.



Laurelin said:


> I really just hate parents that don't supervise their kids. Kids are kids and don't always know the smartest thing to do so they need adults to teach them and also supervise them.
> 
> We had an incident at the agility trial yesterday with two kids (no parents around, they were at a nearby soccer event) trying to unzip crates and let dogs out.  I can't imagine a parent letting their kids roam unsupervised at a dog show.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Except in most cases, small kids arent allowed at dog parks, while in most cases, dogs are allowed at general parks. Now, if the tennis court had a sign saying dogs werent allowed, then yes, the OP would be completely in the wrong, they didnt state whether or not it do, so I dont know if it did or not.


This was a tennis court, not a general park, so I'm not sure why who is allowed at what parks is relevant. I'm also not sure why you are presuming the kids were small? To me a small kid would be younger than school aged. 

Lots of places don't specifically have 'no dogs allowed' signs but are still not intended for dog use. Playgrounds come to mind. Lots of people use them for obstacles for their dogs, but I wouldn't be going in and asking kids to get off the equipment so my dog can use it. 

Same with sport fields. "Sorry guys, can you stop this baseball game? My dog needs an offleash run."


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Well generally agility shows don't have spectators, it's just dog people there. Many of whom know each other. People leave their dogs all the time. We had more than usual because of circumstances and being right next to a soccer tournament. There was also a few people that just came, including families, that were great. Hank spent a long time doing tricks and getting petted by several kids. All the kids save these two were nice, not messing with the crated dogs, supervised by parents, asked before petting, etc. 

No, there is no private area to crate dogs. No, general public is not usually there (they amy be at bigger conformation shows but I don't do conformation). 

For anyone thinking about going to watch a dog show or dog performance event, please do supervise your kids. I think it's great people come watch and agility in particular is a lot of fun to watch. But we just want everyone to be safe.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> This was a tennis court, not a general park, so I'm not sure why who is allowed at what parks is relevant. I'm also not sure why you are presuming the kids were small? To me a small kid would be younger than school aged.
> 
> Lots of places don't specifically have 'no dogs allowed' signs but are still not intended for dog use. Playgrounds come to mind. Lots of people use them for obstacles for their dogs, but I wouldn't be going in and asking kids to get off the equipment so my dog can use it.
> 
> Same with sport fields. "Sorry guys, can you stop this baseball game? My dog needs an offleash run."


They werent playing an organized match, they were just messing around anyway, the OP mentioned hockey sticks, which, last time I checked, arent used to tennis. So if you wanted to get technical about it, these kids werent using the court for its original intended purpose, either. 

And yes, I do know a lot of people (myself included) who use playgrounds for training and yes, I have asked kids if they would mind letting us train a bit, if I was pressed for time or something. But I made it fun for THEM too, ("Hey kids, wanna see something cool?" and I run my dog through their paces while they get to watch, then they clap, I leave, then the kids get to go back to their playing.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> Well generally agility shows don't have spectators, it's just dog people there. Many of whom know each other. People leave their dogs all the time. We had more than usual because of circumstances and being right next to a soccer tournament. There was also a few people that just came, including families, that were great. Hank spent a long time doing tricks and getting petted by several kids. All the kids save these two were nice, not messing with the crated dogs, supervised by parents, asked before petting, etc.
> 
> No, there is no private area to crate dogs. No, general public is not usually there (they amy be at bigger conformation shows but I don't do conformation).
> 
> For anyone thinking about going to watch a dog show or dog performance event, please do supervise your kids. I think it's great people come watch and agility in particular is a lot of fun to watch. But we just want everyone to be safe.


Yes, we dont mind spectators ... really, in fact, a lot of us like showing off our dogs LOL. I agree, we want everyone to be safe, dogs included, a lot of places that hold agility competitions are outside and alongside a budy road, I would hate for someone's dog to be hit and killed, or for a kid to let out the wrong dog and be hurt as well.


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## 2Dogfarm (Apr 23, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> They werent playing an organized match, they were just messing around anyway, the OP mentioned hockey sticks, which, last time I checked, arent used to tennis. So if you wanted to get technical about it, these kids werent using the court for its original intended purpose, either.
> 
> And yes, I do know a lot of people (myself included) who use playgrounds for training and yes, I have asked kids if they would mind letting us train a bit, if I was pressed for time or something. But I made it fun for THEM too, ("Hey kids, wanna see something cool?" and I run my dog through their paces while they get to watch, then they clap, I leave, then the kids get to go back to their playing.



Blows my mind that you think this is ok. 

Just. Wow. 

Yes, it is ok to use playgrounds for dog training. IF you wait your turn and then leave if kids show up to play!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs detests children, so arguing with her about anything having to do with kids is pointless.

Tennis courts are not meant for dogs any way you slice it. It was (mildly) rude to ask the kids to stop playing their game. It doesn't make what that kid did okay, but it was still (again, mildly) rude. The age of the players has nothing to do with that. I am not fond of kids myself, but I'd think it was rude whether the players were preteens, teenagers, or adults.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

I think it depends on the circumstances. Maybe the OP waited for a while, while they played then asked them if she could have a turn.

For instance, the tennis courts in my city have time limits of 30 minutes. So if the kids were over their time limit, I would have asked them to leave if they weren't playing tennis, and I would have not gone over my time limit. However, if anyone was using the court to play tennis, I think it would be rude to ask them to leave to use it for something it's not intended for.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

ireth0 said:


> Lots of places don't specifically have 'no dogs allowed' signs but are still not intended for dog use. Playgrounds come to mind.


In my city it is against city by-laws for dogs to be in playground areas. There generally aren't signs posted stating as such, and it is not really enforced, but that's the law none the less: dogs are not allowed on playgrounds.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> OwnedbyACDs detests children, so arguing with her about anything having to do with kids is pointless.
> 
> Tennis courts are not meant for dogs any way you slice it. It was (mildly) rude to ask the kids to stop playing their game. It doesn't make what that kid did okay, but it was still (again, mildly) rude. The age of the players has nothing to do with that. I am not fond of kids myself, but I'd think it was rude whether the players were preteens, teenagers, or adults.


That has nothing to do with it, if it had been adults, then my view would be the same.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> In my city it is against city by-laws for dogs to be in playground areas. There generally aren't signs posted stating as such, and it is not really enforced, but that's the law none the less: dogs are not allowed on playgrounds.


We have the same bylaw. There are usually signs though. I get it. I wouldn't want my kids playing in sand full of dog pee.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> That has nothing to do with it, if it had been adults, then my view would be the same.


That they should've been supervised...?


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

d_ray said:


> We have the same bylaw. There are usually signs though. I get it. I wouldn't want my kids playing in sand full of dog pee.


Or doggy poop! Honestly I think it's smart that they have playgrounds for kids and dog parks for dogs where we live (specifically talking to d_ray because we share the same home city! Woo! Haha) 

Alternatively, if parents could keep their kids out of the dog parks, or at least keep a better eye on them in dog parks, that'd be great...


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

> It wasn't me who said dogs are in crates at dog shows and dog sporting events, it was this person, who I quoted below, not to single them out, their experience was just very similar to ones I have experienced.


For the love of Pete, never mind.



> I still find it amusing that you pass judgement regarding dog shows, sporting events and the people who attend them when you know nothing about them and have no interest in learning anything about them. If you cared to read anything about the subject you are debating, then you would know that in general, dogs are in crates or ex pens at dog shows, in fact, at many dog event venues, it is REQUIRED that dogs be on a leash at all times (except when in competition) or in a crate when unsupervised.


Who the heck is passing judgement on dog shows and sporting events? Please, just stop already. For one thing, I'm not debating. For another, straw men (and other fallacies) aren't impressive in a debate. Bye now.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

To some of you anti-kid people, let's put it this way... If you were at a dog park, and someone walked in with their kid and politely asked you to leave for 10 minutes so they could let their kid run around and play, what would you think? I can only imagine the reaction! So why is it different when it's the other way around?


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm not really a kid person by any means, but I also agree that maybe it wasn't the best idea to ask the kids to stop playing their game for dog training. I'm sure they were thinking "why can't these people wait their turn or go somewhere else?". I'm sure they didn't take into account the scheduling of the trainer and friend and that this had to be a bit more structured. They're game was probably equally important to them as the training was to the op, and they maybe felt a little bit ganged up on. One of the kids acted out. Not that that behaviour was okay, but I think, under different circumstances, things may have been different.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

MollyM said:


> For the love of Pete, never mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Who the heck is passing judgement on dog shows and sporting events? Please, just stop already. For one thing, I'm not debating. For another, straw men (and other fallacies) aren't impressive in a debate. Bye now.


Nope, the only fallacies that were posted were on your side, you made some assumptions about something you admitted to know nothing about ... I was just returning thr favor 

And again ... here, there is no law against dogs in playgrounds and other parks ... there ARE rules at many dog parks that say no kids under a certain age.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Rules about kids at "many" dog parks is irrelevant here. "Many" tennis courts explicitly forbid dogs as well, so that's a moot point. And no one is talking about whether the dogs technically were allowed to be there. It's about being respectful toward the kids.

The fact remains, if you were utilizing a dog park with your dogs and some kids came up (there was perhaps no sign or rule about kids), it would still be very rude and presumptuous for a mother to come up and tell you she needed the space for her child to run around. Not to mention that it's worse when an adult asks a child to leave, because they feel compelled to obey. Just plain rude. Again, not an excuse for his dangerous actions. But perhaps part of the explanation.


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## Ravenclaw2010 (May 25, 2015)

That's horrible! I am with you though, I also cannot stand kids. I have a child but she is a 6 month old golden retriever/boxer mix! My boyfriend and I both decided no kids! I once had a golden retriever who was also a rescue and she came from an abusive home. (Mind you this was like 4 years ago) and so I was sitting on the porch with my mom and I had to run inside quick to grab Bella (my golden) some more fresh water because it was summer time and it was hot. Long story short this little girl came up and asked my mom if she could pet Bella and my mom said "As long as she will let you" (because she had been abused and was not a sociable dog because of it) so needless to say Bella DID NOT let this little girl pet her so the little girl decided to kick Bella as hard as she could in the ribs.... Let me just say she's lucky I wasn't out there to see it because I would have ripped her a new behind for kicking my dog. Abused or not, you do not hit animals.

I also want to add in to my relevance with your story is that we had children over recently and they were slapping our older dog (Molly) and pushing around my puppy (Marley) and I had to yell at them several times to stop. I don't know what it is with children and thinking it's okay to do this type of thing to animals but seriously it's not!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea the kids' behavior was unacceptable, but I think it's a little odd to essentially kick someone out of a public space because you wanted to use it instead. Regardless of their age.


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## Shep (May 16, 2013)

My God, hasn't anyone here ever met any nice kids? I can't believe I even have to say this, but plenty of kids love animals and treat them kindly. I certainly did, and I'll bet the vast majority of people on this forum did. Some kids are terrors, some kids are great. Some kids show dogs, adore their pets, raise money for rescue efforts.

If you've got a complaint about individual kids, fine. But making sweeping statements about hating and despising "kids" as if there were only one kind of kid in the world is just asinine and deeply, deeply offensive. And I speak as someone who has no kids and doesn't want any.

Grow up people, for heaven's sake, and stop acting, uh...childish.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I can't believe I read the whole thing!


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## Ravenclaw2010 (May 25, 2015)

I do agree that not ALL kids are bad. I've only ever came across a couple kids who were mean to my dogs (the ones I mentioned) but I mostly don't like kids just because to me they are annoying. I'd rather be in a room full of puppies than be in a room full of young children but that's just me.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Nope, the only fallacies that were posted were on your side, you made some assumptions about something you admitted to know nothing about ... I was just returning thr favor
> 
> And again ... here, there is no law against dogs in playgrounds and other parks ... there ARE rules at many dog parks that say no kids under a certain age.


But there ARE rules against dogs in Tennis Courts. Again, many park districts will kick you out if you have a dog in there, even if no one was using it. Same with Baseball fields.

And it's funny, because even AS A KID, I had the etiquette and manners to understand that letting my dogs run around in a tennis court was called being lucky, NOT a right. I would never have asked anyone to give up the tennis court of any age so I could let my dogs run around, nor would I have stayed if someone wanted to use it. The fact I knew that as a kid, but some people here as adults don't get that is pretty...well....


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

But nobody ordered anyone ... she ASKED POLITELY. Though personally I would have waited or found an empty court, though I am sure she had her reasons for what she did.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> But nobody ordered anyone ... she ASKED POLITELY. Though personally I would have waited or found an empty court, though I am sure she had her reasons for what she did.


And if the kids said no? They had every right to refuse, but they are kids. Of course they are going to give it up by default of them being adults. And I'm sure if one of them had the guts to say no, there would of been lots of guilt and intimidation crap that wouldn't of been pulled if they had been adults rather than kids.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

RCloud said:


> And if the kids said no? They had every right to refuse, but they are kids. Of course they are going to give it up by default of them being adults. And I'm sure if one of them had the guts to say no, there would of been lots of guilt and intimidation crap that wouldn't of been pulled if they had been adults rather than kids.


Yes... there is a difference between someone who is a peer asking you to do something, and someone who has some power or authority over you asking you to do something. For the latter, it doesn't always feel like you're being -asked- with the option to decline.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I will quote the original message again, points I think are important will be in bold.



Lako said:


> My husband and I have never wanted kids. They don't fit in our lifestyle, and neither one of us has the patience for kids. People always tell us that we are missing out on the greatest thing in life, blah blah blah. It's our life decision, so butt out!
> 
> Now to reason # 4836728 why I hate kids.
> 
> ...


It was ten minutes!!! for the love of Pete ... everyone here is making like she and her trainer took the entire afternoon!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> Yea the kids' behavior was unacceptable, but I think it's a little odd to essentially kick someone out of a public space because you wanted to use it instead. Regardless of their age.


Well we want what we want, when we want it.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I will quote the original message again, points I think are important will be in bold.
> 
> 
> 
> It was ten minutes!!! for the love of Pete ... everyone here is making like she and her trainer took the entire afternoon!


Actually I'm pretty sure nobody mentioned a time period, of the people who thought it was rude, that is.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Asking someone for a little time is NOT kicking them out ... OMG LOL, I just cant understand how asking someone politely for a little time is rude??? Especially when training a dog doesnt take that long, maybe ten minutes at the most??? I ask, would it have been different if they were two humans, a kid and an adult, who wanted to play a game of tennis and they asked the kids (who were NOT using the court for its original purpose, either BTW) if they would mind vacating the court for ten minutes.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

If neither party was using the court for the intended purpose, then they had equal claim to use it. The kids were there first so they had priority. 'Dibs' if you will.

So, yea. Someone else is using the space, it's rude IMO to ask them to stop so -you- can use the space. Because why should you have any more right to use the space than they did?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> If neither party was using the court for the intended purpose, then they had equal claim to use it. The kids were there first so they had priority. 'Dibs' if you will.
> 
> So, yea. Someone else is using the space, it's rude IMO to ask them to stop so -you- can use the space. Because why should you have any more right to use the space than they did?


Maybe because its a public space, perhaps? Like I said again, the kids werent playing regulation tennis, having a lesson or whatever. 

Again: if it had been two people wanting to practice or play TENNIS and they asked the kids to leave so they could, would it be as wrong? IMO no, because to me, two people wanting to use the court for its original intended purpose takes pretense over a bunch of kids just messing around.

Also I know a lot of people in the younger generation weren't raised this way, but I was always taught to defer to someone older and vacate for them, whether they were in the right or not. 

As a kid, and even as an adult, if someone wanted to come and train their dog in an area I was playing in, I would be totally okay with it, because it would be an opportunity for me to watch and maybe learn something (and yes, even as a kid I was like that)! IMO the kid (and the parents, where in the heck WERE they in all this, anyway?!) missed a golden opportunity to learn something about dogs and instead decided to be prats about it ... and its a shame that one day those prats will be milling in society having kids of their own and continuing the vicious cycle of NO common sense when it comes to animals.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Maybe because its a public space, perhaps?


What about it being a public space gives you more right to use it than people who are already using it?


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Again: if it had been two people wanting to practice or play TENNIS and they asked the kids to leave so they could, would it be as wrong? IMO no, because to me, two people wanting to use the court for its original intended purpose takes pretense over a bunch of kids just messing around.


But that wasn't the case here. No one wanted to use the tennis court to play tennis. The kids were there first, so they had priority. Also, they were playing a game of hockey, not just messing around/goofing off.



OwnedbyACDs said:


> Also I know a lot of people in the younger generation weren't raised this way, but I was always taught to defer to someone older and vacate for them, whether they were in the right or not.


Exactly. The kids, being younger, probably felt forced to leave because they were raised to defer to adults. They defered to be polite, but that doesn't mean they were happy about it. Clearly, one child wasn't.



OwnedbyACDs said:


> As a kid, and even as an adult, if someone wanted to come and train their dog in an area I was playing in, I would be totally okay with it, because it would be an opportunity for me to watch and maybe learn something (and yes, even as a kid I was like that)! IMO the kid (and the parents, where in the heck WERE they in all this, anyway?!) missed a golden opportunity to learn something about dogs and instead decided to be prats about it ... and its a shame that one day those prats will be milling in society having kids of their own and continuing the vicious cycle of NO common sense when it comes to animals.


If I was a child in this situation, I would be a little miffed too....and I love animals. It was presumed that the dog training was of more importance than their game, which isn't correct or fair at all. I would feel a little walked on. Would I act out like that one child did? No, because that is not acceptable behaviour and is a good way of getting hurt (edit: and because my brain is fully developed at this point). But I can see *why* he felt the way he did.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> What about it being a public space gives you more right to use it than people who are already using it?


Because no one has "dibs" on a public space, it doesnt belong to anyone.

If I was the trainer I would have given that kid a lecture on how life is not fair, and things dont always go the way you want them to, and he'd basically better get used to it, because that is how the world is. Odds are he is probably a spoiled brat who was never told no at home.

And I wouldnt be miffed at all, because I would know that TEN MINUTES LATER I would be back, playing.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> If I was the trainer I would have given that kid a lecture on how life is not fair, and things dont always go the way you want them to, and he'd basically better get used to it, because that is how the world is. Odds are he is probably a spoiled brat who was never told no at home.


I...can't even...


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Omg I hope there aren't many times when poor kids have to interact with you. You can't be serious? Not every child is dog obsessed and they have as much right to enjoy their activities as you do. Your special doggie training sessions are NOT more important than kids playing a game. 

Yes, it would be different if you asked kids to leave a tennis court because you actually wanted to play tennis. And just because kids should respect their parents, older authority figured etc, doesn't mean they're going to be all smiles when some random adults ask them to use the space their playing in because they want to train a dog.

Some of the places I take Bennie to on her long line are public parks and baseball fields. I have never asked anyone to leave, adults or kids, because I wanted to train her l there. Because that would be incredibly rude.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

...I'm a little bit stunned at the entitlement going on, while railing against supposed entitlement of someone else. 

"LIFE ISN"T FAIR AND YOU DON"T GET SPECIAL TREATMENT, You spoiled brat!" "My right to use a space for you're already using for what I want trumps yours (because I don't like you and I say so), so I'm going to use it and I'm right and I get my way or I'll lecture at you about how life isn't fair and you can't get YOUR way!~!"

LOL, irony much? Well, hypocrisy, really.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> ...I'm a little bit stunned at the entitlement going on, while railing against supposed entitlement of someone else.
> 
> "LIFE ISN"T FAIR AND YOU DON"T GET SPECIAL TREATMENT, You spoiled brat!" "My right to use a space for you're already using for what I want trumps yours (because I don't like you and I say so), so I'm going to use it and I'm right and I get my way or I'll lecture at you about how life isn't fair and you can't get YOUR way!~!"
> 
> LOL, irony much? Well, hypocrisy, really.


Yes, for ten minutes, no I dont see the problem, and I never will, the end.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

The length of time is irrelevant when you make someone else leave a space that you are no more entitled to than they are.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

And honestly, a hockey game is much harder to pack up, pause, and restart than a dog training session. Also, kids don't drive, and have limited range so fewer options of finding an alternative location.

Sometimes, you just need to move on and find another space. Those times are usually when you're using a public space for purposes not intended and someone else is already there. You don't win. Go somewhere else. Reschedule. Try again. Move on, like an, er, grow-up. Being a grown-up doesn't mean always getting your way.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> As a kid, and even as an adult, if someone wanted to come and train their dog in an area I was playing in, I would be totally okay with it, because it would be an opportunity for me to watch and maybe learn something (and yes, even as a kid I was like that)! IMO the kid *(and the parents, where in the heck WERE they in all this, anyway?!)* missed a golden opportunity to learn something about dogs and instead decided to be prats about it ... and its a shame that one day those prats will be milling in society having kids of their own and continuing the vicious cycle of NO common sense when it comes to animals.


I just have to say, I'm getting really sick of the notion that anyone under the age of 18 needs to have an adult lingering over them at all times. At age 8, I was allowed to go to the park by myself, and I thank God every day my mother loved me enough to give me the freedom to grow and become a person without being insanely over baring, and dictating every little move I made. That's the way it should be. Parents don't need to breast feed their kids until they are 25.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

You know, seriously. Little kids need parents. Older kids need some freedom. It was a park, with a tennis court. Kids tend to go to parks. They're also usually able to be trusted not to be irresponsible jerks. This kid acted badly, but so did the adult in the equation and no one's ranting about how they needed to be supervised by her parents.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> And honestly, a hockey game is much harder to pack up, pause, and restart than a dog training session. Also, kids don't drive, and have limited range so fewer options of finding an alternative location.
> 
> Sometimes, you just need to move on and find another space. Those times are usually when you're using a public space for purposes not intended and someone else is already there. You don't win. Go somewhere else. Reschedule. Try again. Move on, like an, er, grow-up. Being a grown-up doesn't mean always getting your way.


I myself have never done what the OP has done, but what I am saying is that I don't see anything wrong with it. Would I have done it? No, because I am avoidant of society in general, but no, I dont see anything wrong with what the OP did. She was polite about asking.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I myself have never done what the OP has done, but what I am saying is that I don't see anything wrong with it. Would I have done it? No, because I am avoidant of society in general, but no, I dont see anything wrong with what the OP did. She was polite about asking.


Asking at all is rude, IMO. 

If a random person came up to me and very politely asked me for some of my ice cream, being polite wouldn't make it an okay thing to do.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I myself have never done what the OP has done, but what I am saying is that I don't see anything wrong with it. Would I have done it? No, because I am avoidant of society in general, but no, I dont see anything wrong with what the OP did. She was polite about asking.


WAS it asking though? Or was it a veiled demand made to kids who are going to obey adults by default?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ireth0 said:


> Asking at all is rude, IMO.
> 
> If a random person came up to me and very politely asked me for some of my ice cream, being polite wouldn't make it an okay thing to do.


Yeah, this.

If the kids were just hanging around in there, not clearly doing something, asking if they were going to be long/they'd mind letting her use it would be one thing, but clearly engaged in a game? No, not really. Engaged in a game, the best you can do with that and still not be inappropriate/rude in the asking is to ask if they have a timeline for when they might be finished so you can come back. 

"There's no harm in asking" is a fallacy. Asking nicely is not always polite. There are things you just don't ask people for, and circumstances it isn't okay to ask in. One of those is when there's a power imbalance making a no unlikely (ie: they feel they can't say no to you), in spite of it being a clear inconvenience or hardship for the other party. Barring REALLY SERIOUS NEED, you just don't do that. Kind of like walking onto a bus and asking an elderly person to stand up so you can have her seat, while you're looming over her. Can she say no? Technically. Is she likely to? Depends on the elderly but maybe not, especially not if intimidated (and let's be real, adults have authority). Is it okay to ask, because you want to sit? NO!

Oh, better yet: You get on a bus in a, I don't know, police uniform and 'ask' someone to leave their seat so you can sit. Odds are high they're going to move because of your presumed authority (uniform). Can you say no? Yes, but few people are because of that assumed authority. Asking in that situation is not okay, either. You have no more right to the seat than they do, but you do have power on your side because of the uniform and you're using it, consciously or not, to make someone else give up their seat. Not okay.


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## MelTruffles (Jan 27, 2015)

This thread is getting very intense. :tape:


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

pawsaddict said:


> If I was a child in this situation, I would be a little miffed too....and I love animals. It was presumed that the dog training was of more importance than their game, which isn't correct or fair at all. I would feel a little walked on. Would I act out like that one child did? No, because that is not acceptable behaviour and is a good way of getting hurt (edit: and because my brain is fully developed at this point). But I can see *why* he felt the way he did.


10 minutes or not. To me the dog owner comes off as the entitled one.

I agree 100%. If I was one of those kids I would be thinking "This is a public park, we were here first, we shouldn't have to end our game early just because these dog people say so, who are they to me?". Honestly if I was one of those kids I would have said "We want to finish our game, sorry!" and carried on. Why would have been such a big deal for the dog owners to wait for the kids to be finished? 

I would never walk my dogs up to a public park area and expect all people who were already using said court to "clear out" because I said so. In my opinion that is super rude. 

I am a 26 year old woman by the way . I never ever plan on having kids and am not a fan of rude and obnoxious kids. But I can see both sides of the fence with this story. Should the kid have taunted the dog? Absolutely not. But should the kids have been asked to get out of the court, even for a short time? NO, they were there first and had the right to take as much time as they needed/wanted to finish their game. It's the kind of stuff you run into in a public area. 

Also kids can usually tell when adults despise them for no reason. And they tend to act accordingly.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yeah, this.
> 
> If the kids were just hanging around in there, not clearly doing something, asking if they were going to be long/they'd mind letting her use it would be one thing, but clearly engaged in a game? No, not really. Engaged in a game, the best you can do with that and still not be inappropriate/rude in the asking is to ask if they have a timeline for when they might be finished so you can come back.
> 
> ...


For me it is backward, if an elderly person came onto a bus I was on, I would give my seat to them, because that is what I was taught to do, even if they didnt ask for it or even if they didnt thank me, that doesnt matter, I did what was right.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yeah, this.
> 
> If the kids were just hanging around in there, not clearly doing something, asking if they were going to be long/they'd mind letting her use it would be one thing, but clearly engaged in a game? No, not really. Engaged in a game, the best you can do with that and still not be inappropriate/rude in the asking is to ask if they have a timeline for when they might be finished so you can come back.
> 
> ...


All of these things.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Or if your boss 'asks' you to do something related to their personal life for them. (not related to work) Sure, you CAN say no, it's not part of your job to do that thing, but there is the unspoken implication that it could effect your job if you refuse.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I myself have never done what the OP has done, but what I am saying is that I don't see anything wrong with it. Would I have done it? No, because I am avoidant of society in general, but no, I dont see anything wrong with what the OP did. She was polite about asking.


Really because you posted otherwise.

"And yes, I do know a lot of people (myself included) who use playgrounds for training and yes, I have asked kids if they would mind letting us train a bit, if I was pressed for time or something. But I made it fun for THEM too, ("Hey kids, wanna see something cool?" and I run my dog through their paces while they get to watch, then they clap, I leave, then the kids get to go back to their playing. "

It is actually shocking to me that you throw a fit about people bringing their children to dog parks but then go to playgrounds, places designated for children to play, with your dogs. I know it is hard to believe but there are people out there who are as uninterested in dogs as you are in children. Those people do not want to sit back and "learn something" by watching you or the OP train their dog. They just want to play on the playground that is a designated children's play area just like you want to use the dog park for your dogs.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

And I just have to add that telling the kids that "they can watch" the training session like it's some sort of consolation prize just rubs me the wrong way...like rubbing salt in the wound. "Our training is more important than your game and you are privileged just to be able to watch it." Yeah...no.

Edit: Remaru hit the nail on the head. Said it way better than me.


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

Remaru said:


> It is actually shocking to me that you throw a fit about people bringing their children to dog parks but then go to playgrounds, places designated for children to play, with your dogs. I know it is hard to believe but there are people out there who are as uninterested in dogs as you are in children. Those people do not want to sit back and "learn something" by watching you or the OP train their dog. They just want to play on the playground that is a designated children's play area just like you want to use the dog park for your dogs.


This! This! A THOUSAND times THIS!!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Remaru said:


> Really because you posted otherwise.
> 
> "And yes, I do know a lot of people (myself included) who use playgrounds for training and yes, I have asked kids if they would mind letting us train a bit, if I was pressed for time or something. But I made it fun for THEM too, ("Hey kids, wanna see something cool?" and I run my dog through their paces while they get to watch, then they clap, I leave, then the kids get to go back to their playing. "
> 
> It is actually shocking to me that you throw a fit about people bringing their children to dog parks but then go to playgrounds, places designated for children to play, with your dogs. I know it is hard to believe but there are people out there who are as uninterested in dogs as you are in children. Those people do not want to sit back and "learn something" by watching you or the OP train their dog. They just want to play on the playground that is a designated children's play area just like you want to use the dog park for your dogs.


With playgrounds, not tennis courts LOL, and the kids could have continued their game elsewhere, like a field (which hockey would be more fun in anyway), the kids had many more options then a person training a dog, because sometimes you need a unfamiliar fenced area for some things.

That being said I would NEVER go to an occupied park/playground with my current dog, because of his aversion to strangers, he would be way too stressed to even train, anyway. Josefina? no problem, she is a very sweet and friendly dog, but she is now having hip issues and we dont make her do anything anymore that involves jumping or climbing.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

How is kicking kids off a playground any more acceptable than kicking kids out of a tennis court? Both are meant for humans, not dogs.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> With playgrounds, not tennis courts LOL, and the kids could have continued their game elsewhere, like a field (which hockey would be more fun in anyway), the kids had many more options then a person training a dog, because sometimes you need a unfamiliar fenced area for somethings.


You definitely can't play hockey in a field. But again, why should they be forced to go somewhere else just because?


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Remaru said:


> Really because you posted otherwise.
> 
> "And yes, I do know a lot of people (myself included) who use playgrounds for training and yes, I have asked kids if they would mind letting us train a bit, if I was pressed for time or something. But I made it fun for THEM too, ("Hey kids, wanna see something cool?" and I run my dog through their paces while they get to watch, then they clap, I leave, then the kids get to go back to their playing. "
> 
> It is actually shocking to me that you throw a fit about people bringing their children to dog parks but then go to playgrounds, places designated for children to play, with your dogs. *I know it is hard to believe but there are people out there who are as uninterested in dogs as you are in children. Those people do not want to sit back and "learn something" by watching you or the OP train their dog.* They just want to play on the playground that is a designated children's play area just like you want to use the dog park for your dogs.


YES! ALL of this, particularly the bolded! What exactly makes you think all kids give a flying rat's a** about your dog?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Especially since they were already into the game? I mean honestly you don't pick up and move that, and even if you didn't need a hard, flat surface for it.... Um, they're already there and engaged in the game. YOU go find somewhere else. Only right to ask those kids to move would come from someone who wanted to play tennis. 

Playing with your dog is just not that important. No, not even more important an kids playing hockey.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

The reality is this. By making the choice to own a dog and train it, you also take on the inconvenience of having to find a safe place to exercise and train them. Like it or not, you don't get to tell people to give up space designated for human use for your dog. You either wait your turn, come back later when it's not being used, or go find someplace else. That's what you signed up for when you made the decision to get a dog.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Especially since they were already into the game? I mean honestly you don't pick up and move that, and even if you didn't need a hard, flat surface for it.... Um, they're already there and engaged in the game. YOU go find somewhere else. Only right to ask those kids to move would come from someone who wanted to play tennis.
> 
> Playing with your dog is just not that important. No, not even more important an kids playing hockey.


Maybe not to you, but is to me. Like I said, present day I would not have done this, I would have found somewhere else to train, because I have a dog who gets nervous around strangers and commotion, so he would probably have been too overwhelmed to learn anyway (not ready for that kind of environment) so we are working on being in strange deserted public places FIRST before we add people to the mix.


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## watch4whales (May 24, 2015)

RCloud said:


> No one is excusing the way the kid was acting, but yes, it's extremely rude to interrupt a game in a Tennis court, which is for HUMAN USE, to let your DOG run around and play. 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour...doesn't matter how long. Tennis courts weren't made for that purpose, and your dog doesn't have the right over people that are using it for it's actual intended purpose. And I agree, if it had been adults in there having a game, I'm willing to bet they wouldn't have asked. Same thing goes for baseball fields. There are some park districts that will kick you out if you're in there with a dog even if the courts aren't in use.


Most "tennis" courts also have signs posted that if it's a tennis court there's no hockey allowed.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

watch4whales said:


> Most "tennis" courts also have signs posted that if it's a tennis court there's no hockey allowed.


I know the ones around here do, no skateboarding or rollerblading, either LOL.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

watch4whales said:


> Most "tennis" courts also have signs posted that if it's a tennis court there's no hockey allowed.


It doesn't matter. Recreational purposes still get rights over dogs. Only time they would need to move is if someone else came in wanting to play tennis.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

watch4whales said:


> Most "tennis" courts also have signs posted that if it's a tennis court there's no hockey allowed.


No one debates that. Just that kicking one person engaged in against the rules activity when you want to use it for an against the rules activity doesn't make you right.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Whether they were playing actual tennis or some version of Calvinball D), still, tennis courts are primarily for people to use, any dog use is strictly a privilege. I don't think asking people to vacate the tennis courts for dog training is polite. 

The tennis courts in my town's park have basketball hoops too. Dual purpose!


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Maybe not to you, but is to me.


Me, me, me. I don't think it's the kids that need the lecture...


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

The idea that because playing with your dog is more important to you makes it more important, but kids today are not being raised right because they are self absorbed and don't defer to adults. I don't even know where to begin with this.



pawsaddict said:


> Me, me, me. I don't think it's the kids that need the lecture...



Thank you! We posted at the same time and this is exactly what I was trying to say.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Finding a place to play and train with your dog should NOT be made into an inconvenience to others. It's simply not their problem.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> No one debates that. Just that kicking one person engaged in against the rules activity when you want to use it for an against the rules activity doesn't make you right.


What if THEY were breaking the rules as well (if the court has a sign saying no hockey playing ... etc) does this come down to who is breaking the rules MORE?


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

No it comes down to the FACT that it is a place INTENDED FOR HUMANS NOT DOGS! It doesn't say "Dog training area". It is meant for people so who cares if they are playing tennis or hockey. They still have more of a right to be there than the dogs...Without a doubt.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> What if THEY were breaking the rules as well (if the court has a sign saying no hockey playing ... etc) does this come down to who is breaking the rules MORE?


Everyone in this scenario was breaking the rules (not using the court for it's intensed purpose). And in this senario, I bet the dog training was in greater violation. But this is going in circles. The people that were there first have priority since no one was playing tennis.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

When everyone is breaking the rules, the rights to the space of both parties are about the same: none. So either no one uses it, or whoever was there first does. But kicking someone breaking the rules out so you can break the rules gives you no one it's more right to it. Just kicking them out nd not using it would have been less of a jerk move. At least then you'd have a leg to stand on.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Again, recreational use by HUMANS gets priority over dogs in a tennis court. Period.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> When everyone is breaking the rules, the rights to the space of both parties are about the same: none. So either no one uses it, or whoever was there first does. But kicking someone breaking the rules out so you can break the rules gives you no one it's more right to it. Just kicking them out nd not using it would have been less of a jerk move. At least then you'd have a leg to stand on.


The way I would have handled this like that, I would have told them they were breaking the rules (if there was a sign saying no hockey in the court) waited until they left, then used the court LOL.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

So much self righteousness.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

RCloud said:


> So much self righteousness.


It's a little unreal it's so extreme, honestly. Like how can you... Not see the conflict in talking about lecturing other people about life not being fair and calling them brats and then argue about your special rights and entitlement above others?


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

Wow *facepalm*


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Among many other things that are just straight up wrong with this whole conversation, the attitude, and almost dare I say belief, that your dog is somehow above human kids and gets rights over them is just absolutely insane to me! You don't have to like children, I really don't care! You can even love your dog more than kids. But when someone starts giving off the bizarre notion that children are inferior to dogs, then there is something very, very wrong.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Te reality is, however you feel about kids, they become voters and pay taxes. Their parents, relatives, siblings, and other relatives already are. Basically, you know, humans vote and pay taxes. Every human is, somehow, attached to a child (id only htrough having been one) When your dog does so, they will have equal rights to be everywhere people of all ages are. Until then, you're just out of luck.

And yes. There are several things very, very wrong.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Holy wow. What is wrong with you? Just because you CAN tell the kids to leave and conveniently train your dog, doesn't mean you should. They were there first, no one wants to play tennis, and they likely don't care at all about being blessed by your dog training presence. It's not some reward for them to be "allowed" to watch you train your dog when they wanted to play. Wow.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> The way I would have handled this like that, I would have told them they were breaking the rules (if there was a sign saying no hockey in the court) waited until they left, then used the court LOL.


So if someone does something disrespectful and no one is around to witness it, that makes it okay?


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

gingerkid said:


> So if someone does something disrespectful and no one is around to witness it, that makes it okay?


Yes! Because her dog is the most important to HER, so he's clearly the most important thing in the universe! Priority over everyone, especially kids, because SHE likes her dog!


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Eenypup said:


> Yes! Because her dog is the most important to HER, so he's clearly the most important thing in the universe! Priority over everyone, especially kids, because SHE likes her dog!


Okay good, then as long as no one's looking it's okay to leave my dog's poop on my neighbor's lawn. WHEW!


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Eenypup said:


> Yes! Because her dog is the most important to HER, so he's clearly the most important thing in the universe! Priority over everyone, especially kids, because SHE likes her dog!



But kids today are horrible little brats because they have no respect for anyone and only think of themselves. It makes perfect sense.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

gingerkid said:


> Okay good, then as long as no one's looking it's okay to leave my dog's poop on my neighbor's lawn. WHEW!


Even better, bring him to the local playground and let him poop all over the equipment. No need to pick it up, kids need to learn that life isn't always clean & pristine!


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> That being said I would NEVER go to an occupied park/playground with my current dog, because of his aversion to strangers, he would be way too stressed to even train, anyway.


Is this the same dog you don't allow to interact affectionately with people other than yourself because you paid for it so you want it to love only you?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I wonder why he's stranger-averse. Heh.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Am I horribly missing out for not training dogs in tennis courts?

There's a looooooooot of places you can train dogs in this world.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Laurelin said:


> Am I horribly missing out for not training dogs in tennis courts?
> 
> .


I am not catching your meaning on this one.


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## hounddawg (Jan 10, 2012)

Wow. This thread is... interesting. I get not wanting kids. More people than ever are seeming to choose that. That's fine. But it looks like there are some adults who still behave like children, like schoolyard bullies, "despising" an entire group of people, having a sense of entitlement to public spaces, no respect for others. Talk about "brats."


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> Am I horribly missing out for not training dogs in tennis courts?
> 
> There's a looooooooot of places you can train dogs in this world.


The only thing I like about tennis courts is that in my hometown they're fully fenced with 15 ft tall fencing = great place for someone to do off-leash stuff if you don't have a reliable recall or a fenced yard.


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

pawsaddict said:


> If I was a child in this situation, I would be a little miffed too....and I love animals. It was presumed that the dog training was of more importance than their game, which isn't correct or fair at all. I would feel a little walked on. Would I act out like that one child did? No, because that is not acceptable behaviour and is a good way of getting hurt (edit: and because my brain is fully developed at this point). But I can see *why* he felt the way he did.


Yes. This is called empathy. Some people don't have it. I was raised by one, and was blind enough to marry another one when I was too young and broken to know better.


Narcissistic Traits


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

hounddawg said:


> Wow. This thread is... interesting. I get not wanting kids. More people than ever are seeming to choose that. That's fine. But it looks like there are some adults who still behave like children, like schoolyard bullies, "despising" an entire group of people, having a sense of entitlement to public spaces, no respect for others. Talk about "brats."


This. SO and I have chosen not to have children. Neither of us are particularly drawn to them. But not wanting children/not showing much interest in them is completely different than having no empathy towards them and treating them like second-class citizens.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I've been following this thread all along and I literally am speechless. Like cannot even comprehend things that have been said. Holy goodness. 

I will come back to edit this. I just LITERALLY HAVE NO WORDS besides entitlement. I didn't know people like this actually existed. Like honest to god didn't know.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

What is even going on right now.


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## Denisekay (Apr 22, 2015)

lol My thoughts exactly, I've been watching this thread the whole time. Just wow.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

As my wise (best friends) grandmother once said... "Ain't trust no one that don't love a baby."


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Rescued said:


> As my wise (best friends) grandmother once said... "Ain't trust no one that don't love a baby."


I wouldn't say that I love babies in the way I think you're meaning. I don't get all mushy when I see a baby. I really have no desire to interact with them like some people do. Do I care about them being treated well? Yes. Do I despise them? No.

Does that make me untrustworthy? I sure hope not.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Rescued said:


> As my wise (best friends) grandmother once said... "Ain't trust no one that don't love a baby."


UGH ... that's all I have to say to that, sorry but that saying is not accurate. .. there are a lot of perfectly trustworthy people who don't love kids and babies.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Rescued said:


> As my wise (best friends) grandmother once said... "Ain't trust no one that don't love a baby."


Nope don't love babies. That doesn't make me untrustworthy.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, more like don't trust grossly entitled, self-centered people who can't see past the end of their nose and think their desires trump o,eone else's based on the demographic of the someone else. Or, really, at all.

Basically, jerks are jerks. Liking babies and kids or not doesn't matter. Name calling, hypocrisy and being a bully... Is a whole unrelated ball of nastiness.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

It's just a saying.  I think to be more accurate my problem is just... hypocritical self-obsessed people who think treating others like dirt is fine because they want to train their dog in a public place meant for humans. I just can't wrap my head around how that's still being discussed as something that isn't incredibly rude. 

I highly doubt Rescued thinks anyone is untrustworthy regarding their feelings around babies... aside from maybe one outlier on this particular thread.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

I've known some pretty big A*holes who actually loved kids, and vice versa with really great people who didn't like kids. I get what you're saying though. I also think there's a difference with disliking kids, and having this terrifying deep seething hatred for them. It really makes me wonder what happened to someone as a kid to give them such hatred.


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

Do any of these people who despise kids, remember being a kid? Did you encounter adults that despised you just because you were a kid? Assumed you were a stupid idiot right off the bat, because you were unfortunate enough to be a kid? I knew people like that growing up and honestly they made me feel like unwanted trash just for existing.

I never understood why people assumed that because I was a kid, I was this or that. Because in reality I was a quiet, shy, super respectful kid. I never was grounded, never acted out, never raised my voice.

Personally I would never ever want to make a kid feel this way. No matter how little patience I have.

I don't despise and I don't belittle or degrade. And again I don't want kids and to be honest most I meet get annoying pretty quick. Doesn't mean I treat them as second class citizens. Don't understand why they deserve that? Because they are young?


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Rescued said:


> I've been following this thread all along and I literally am speechless. Like cannot even comprehend things that have been said. Holy goodness.
> 
> I will come back to edit this. I just LITERALLY HAVE NO WORDS besides entitlement. I didn't know people like this actually existed. Like honest to god didn't know.


I didn't either... learn something new every day!


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

TheDarkestMinds said:


> Do any of these people who despise kids, remember being a kid? Did you encounter adults that despised you just because you were a kid? Assumed you were a stupid idiot right off the bat, because you were unfortunate enough to be a kid? I knew people like that growing up and honestly they made me feel like unwanted trash just for existing.
> 
> Personally I would never ever want to make a kid feel this way. No matter how little patience I have.
> 
> I don't despise and I don't belittle or degrade. And again I don't want kids and to be honest most I meet get annoying pretty quick. Doesn't mean I treat them as second class citizens. Don't understand why they deserve that? Because they are young?


Not sure who "these" people are. I only really saw 1 person say that.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Two, the OP (it's in the title) and OwnedByACDs.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> Two, the OP (it's in the title) and OwnedByACDs.


I Thought I was missing something cause it seems like the majority are not in that boat. 

"These" made it sound like there were a lot more.


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

I was making a general statement. I wasn't counting heads and taking names as to who said what. No need to freak.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

TheDarkestMinds said:


> I was making a general statement. I wasn't counting heads and taking names as to who said what
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No freak from me.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Eenypup said:


> It's just a saying.


To me it's another unfair, sweeping generalization. I'm sure Rescued didn't mean it like that, but I don't think generalizations should be used on either side of this argument.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

pawsaddict said:


> To me it's another unfair, sweeping generalization. I'm sure Rescued didn't mean it like that, but I don't think generalizations should be used on either side of this argument.


Seemed lighthearted to me. I can see why people didn't appreciate it though. Although imo there isn't much of an argument that should be going on here, aside from people wondering why one specific poster is a million miles off her freakin' rocker. Not that it should shock anyone frankly, after seeing her selfish, hypocritical viewpoints in other threads. Still manages to catch me off guard every time!


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

Oh and to make it clear despise can be traded out for hate/dislike (also generalizing here, not pointing at a specific person). I am just saying. You don't have to be a fan of kids. But you don't have to treat them like second class citizens. Young or old I believe in kindness and understanding. Being hateful just for the sake of being hateful is exhausting. I don't understand why people feel the need to put it out there.

But I am just a peace loving hippie. What do I know?


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Eenypup said:


> Seemed lighthearted to me. I can see why people didn't appreciate it though.


Thanks for understanding. I appreciate that 

See....putting yourself in other people's shoes. It's a good thing and should be done more (not directed at you Eeny).


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm not interested in babies at all. As for kids, I don't ever want any, but I like some and I dislike some... because each kid is an individual just like anyone else. I don't hate all humans, so I don't hate all kids.

I wouldn't ask anyone to leave a tennis court so that my dogs could run around in there, regardless of laws or age. I used to let my dogs run around a nice baseball field, but I left it immediately if anyone wanted to use it for sports purposes.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

d_ray said:


> Nope don't love babies. That doesn't make me untrustworthy.





pawsaddict said:


> To me it's another unfair, sweeping generalization. I'm sure Rescued didn't mean it like that, but I don't think generalizations should be used on either side of this argument.


Oh it's definitely just a funny saying, i don't think it's true (she said it tipsy at a family function teasing a new dad about diaper changes  ) . 

I know plenty of people who are ew kids but are not ew lesser human beings who need to respect me because they are so gross and I'm an adult who was never a kid and kids suck. 

You can totally be "kids really aren't my thing" but understand that they are the next generation and we should be polite and work with them- like most people commenting on this thread . Doing what some other posters have mentioned and the rationale behind it just seems so... Unnecessary, I guess? Idk captain jack said it best.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Crantastic said:


> I don't hate all humans, so I don't hate all kids.


I think this is a totally logical and reasonable statement.
But, even though I know it's fair and logical it still isn't the way I feel and I struggle with that concept.
I don't like kids. I don't like any kids anywhere at any time. It's not that I think they are all demon spawn, some are perfectly nice. It's simply that I don't understand them. Children make me extremely uncomfortable. I'm only 21 so I'm not even that far over the hill and removed from the situation. It's just that I don't 'get' kids. 
Children in general make me uncomfortable. I don't understand them and I don't understand how to behave around them. I'd like to treat them like little adults but I have no idea at what age that is ok and and at what age that is not ok. I don't know what their brains can understand and when.
This stems from the fact that I literally have no experience around kids, no nieces or nephews, no younger siblings or cousins. No family friends with children. If someone handed me a crying baby I'd panic. If someone handed me a toddler with a tantrum or a moody teenager I'd panic. 
I wish I could say that kids are great and I love them but I'm just so uncomfortable around them that I avoid all kids all the time. 

HOWEVER, I am in agreement with the vast majority of you guys and gals that say that the kids shouldn't have been asked to leave. I agree with what most of you have to say about the subject. If someone was sitting on a park bench bird watching I wouldn't ask them to leave so I could sit there and do a crossword puzzle. 
I don't think that just because I'm an 'adult' that I have any more right to any public space than a kid.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

On a lighter note. There is a girl in our advanced obedience class maybe 11 or 12 who has a 10 month old GSD. And that GSD is heads and tails above others I've seen behaviour and training-wise. So... even though I generally don't prefer to interact with kids, I think she is awesome, and we had a nice little conversation after class was over on Sunday.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Kids/babies just generally terrify me. Which people who know me just don't understand because kids apparently LOVE me. Of course, that just makes it all the more terrifying!

There were a few little kids at the dog park the last time we went and this one little girl seemed really enamored with Annabel (well, to be honest, who isn't!) and at one point when my husband and I were chatting and keeping one eye on the dog, this little girl toddled as fast as her legs would carry her at Annabel, screeching in glee, then TRIPPED and fell whole body against our dog. Her parents were like "Sweetie, don't chase the dogs, okay?" but if Annabel hadn't been... Annabel, that could have ended so very very badly. 

As it was, Annabel flopped over onto her back, wiggling and licking the kid all over. There was much slobber and happy body language, so it all worked out but WOW. Oh, and under the little shade structure was the woman with her NEWBORN while a bunch of high-drive dogs worked themselves up into frenzies over the fun new "squeaky toy". Oy.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Effisia said:


> Kids/babies just generally terrify me. Which people who know me just don't understand because kids apparently LOVE me. Of course, that just makes it all the more terrifying!
> 
> There were a few little kids at the dog park the last time we went and this one little girl seemed really enamored with Annabel (well, to be honest, who isn't!) and at one point when my husband and I were chatting and keeping one eye on the dog, this little girl toddled as fast as her legs would carry her at Annabel, screeching in glee, then TRIPPED and fell whole body against our dog. Her parents were like "Sweetie, don't chase the dogs, okay?" but if Annabel hadn't been... Annabel, that could have ended so very very badly.
> 
> As it was, Annabel flopped over onto her back, wiggling and licking the kid all over. There was much slobber and happy body language, so it all worked out but WOW. Oh, and under the little shade structure was the woman with her NEWBORN while a bunch of high-drive dogs worked themselves up into frenzies over the fun new "squeaky toy". Oy.


See, these are the kind of people I think about when I say I despise kids.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> See, these are the kind of people I think about when I say I despise kids.


Yeah, but why would you despise the babies for being born to naive and not-too-smart people? Despise them, not the helpless children :/. 

But, seriously, who brings tiny tots into a cage full of sharp-toothed predators? Someone needs a nature lesson.


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

KodiBarracuda said:


> I think this is a totally logical and reasonable statement.
> But, even though I know it's fair and logical it still isn't the way I feel and I struggle with that concept.
> I don't like kids. I don't like any kids anywhere at any time. It's not that I think they are all demon spawn, some are perfectly nice. It's simply that I don't understand them. Children make me extremely uncomfortable. I'm only 21 so I'm not even that far over the hill and removed from the situation. It's just that I don't 'get' kids.
> Children in general make me uncomfortable. I don't understand them and I don't understand how to behave around them. I'd like to treat them like little adults but I have no idea at what age that is ok and and at what age that is not ok. I don't know what their brains can understand and when.
> ...


Wow KodiB - you just described how I feel...but didn't really know it. I don't understand kids at all and that makes me uncomfortable so I avoid them. And part of avoiding kids would also include not going up to them and telling or asking them to do anything....especially kids I don't know. Because who knows - my dog *might* just get a hockey stick to the face!  But I still wouldn't say I hate or despise them at all....would just rather not deal with them I guess.

I remember one time a friend of my b/f wanted me to watch his 3-year old daughter while he and Joe did some work to the apartment next door. As soon as her dad left, she started FREAKING out...and then I freaked out...and she freaked out more. The kid KNEW I didn't know what to do and all she did was scream and cry. I had to carry her back to her dad. I could only give the kid so many cookies and popsicles, ya know?! LOL


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Willowy said:


> But, seriously, who brings tiny tots into a cage full of sharp-toothed predators? Someone needs a nature lesson.


No kidding. And our dog park (at least when we go) is filled with Aussies and GSDs, Newfs and St. Bernard puppies, Vizsla 
and Ridgebacks and Boxers and bully breeds of all kinds. Plus one very intimidating Corgi and his Doxie partner-in-crime. I mean, this is not an area filled with small dogs by any means. I was terrified for these kids! Especially since I've seen some dogs behaving in a not so great manner (including the one GSD police-fail that was super aggressive and kept getting shocked and shouted at in German by his owner - that was horrific)

Kids of all ages seem to be a regular fixture at that particular dog park, though. There's a playground in the same large park area and lots of fun, easy nature trails. So, of course, the kids want to go play with the doggies. Annabel really doesn't care at all and, in fact, adores kids, but once we get Obi I think we might exclusively go to the private pay-to-enter parks. Which Annabel ALSO won't mind - one of them has a doggy swimming pool!


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks Rescued for clarifying 



Effisia said:


> As it was, Annabel flopped over onto her back, wiggling and licking the kid all over.


Totally off topic sorry. Just curious we have 2 awesome newfies in our neighbourhood. One of them always head butts me and then flops onto her back and rolls so happy waiting for belly rubs. Is this a newfie thing? Owner thinks she picked it up from the cats haha


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Quite a few members have stated on this forum that they really don't like people, so it shouldn't be surprising that they don't care for children. Young children are really just small, drunk humans.

What puzzles me is why anyone who doesn't like people would choose to participate on a mostly social forum with other humans. True, we mostly talk about dogs, but we're talking about dogs with humans. Maybe the forum venue is a more comfortable way to deal with people than in-person encounters. 

I have two adult children. Both were raised to respect and appreciate all animals and both have multiple rescue animals. My daughter is particularly interested in dogs with disabilities. 

Like most of us, I don't appreciate rudeness from anyone. I think there is a chance, at least, that rude children may grow up to be kind adults. I see very little hope that rude adults are going to improve with age. 

We have no control at all over how members treat each other in the real world. We can, however, insist that you all treat each other with some respect on this forum.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

d_ray said:


> Thanks Rescued for clarifying


Ditto, Rescued


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

RonE said:


> Like most of us, I don't appreciate rudeness from anyone. I think there is a chance, at least, that rude children may grow up to be kind adults. I see very little hope that rude adults are going to improve with age.


Pretty much this. There are plenty of irritating, rude or unkind children out there. At least with children there's the hope they'll grow out of it.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

BellaPup said:


> Wow KodiB - you just described how I feel...but didn't really know it. I don't understand kids at all and that makes me uncomfortable so I avoid them. And part of avoiding kids would also include not going up to them and telling or asking them to do anything....especially kids I don't know. Because who knows - my dog *might* just get a hockey stick to the face!  But I still wouldn't say I hate or despise them at all....would just rather not deal with them I guess.
> 
> I remember one time a friend of my b/f wanted me to watch his 3-year old daughter while he and Joe did some work to the apartment next door. As soon as her dad left, she started FREAKING out...and then I freaked out...and she freaked out more. The kid KNEW I didn't know what to do and all she did was scream and cry. I had to carry her back to her dad. I could only give the kid so many cookies and popsicles, ya know?! LOL


I know, crying and screaming kids drive my anxiety through the roof.

And yes, asking was nerve wracking ... so much so that even though I didnt have a bad experience with the kids or anything, I would never ask to use a playground or tennis court again! I just wait and do other things (like training, with distractions and such) until the playground was empty, and if it didnt, then at least I got some training in.

Nowadays if I want to go to those types of places, I try to do so when I think the intended demographic wont be there.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I'm older, I'm sure, than most of you here. Yet I remember what it was like to be a child. And I remember every little insult like it was yesterday. 

When I was a kid, we had corner grocery stores - not supermarkets. My mother would call in her order. If it was a very large order, they'd deliver it and bill her at the end of the month. If it was a smaller order, she'd send me to the store, a couple blocks away, to pick it up. 

During one of those grocery runs, they gave me a sucker. I still had it in my mouth when I returned home and my mother assumed I stole it, though I had never stolen anything in my life. She marched me right back there to apologize and learned that I had been telling the truth. 

I'm inclined to give people, and especially children, the benefit of the doubt.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

d_ray said:


> Thanks Rescued for clarifying
> 
> 
> 
> Totally off topic sorry. Just curious we have 2 awesome newfies in our neighbourhood. One of them always head butts me and then flops onto her back and rolls so happy waiting for belly rubs. Is this a newfie thing? Owner thinks she picked it up from the cats haha


You know, I dunno if I'd call it a Newfie thing, but a lot of the Newfs I know do it. Annabel's mum preferred the leaning technique and leaned until I almost fell over. But I do know that sleeping and napping on their backs is definitely something I see in the majority of Newfs on my other forums. Maybe they just like being belly-up!


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

d_ray said:


> Thanks Rescued for clarifying
> 
> 
> 
> Totally off topic sorry. Just curious we have 2 awesome newfies in our neighbourhood. One of them always head butts me and then flops onto her back and rolls so happy waiting for belly rubs. Is this a newfie thing? Owner thinks she picked it up from the cats haha





Effisia said:


> You know, I dunno if I'd call it a Newfie thing, but a lot of the Newfs I know do it. Annabel's mum preferred the leaning technique and leaned until I almost fell over. But I do know that sleeping and napping on their backs is definitely something I see in the majority of Newfs on my other forums. Maybe they just like being belly-up!


Oh they love belly up. Manna's more of a leaner as well...except after you fall she'll be belly up in your lap


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

It's so hysterical to see this huge dog flop down and roll around. Such gentle giants.


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## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

WOA ! Looks like I opened up Pandora's Box! I didn't expect this type of reaction!



2Dogfarm said:


> It's one thing for children to have poor manners, but you really kicked them out of the tennis court so you could train your dogs?


No, we did NOT kick them out, we asked politly to use it for 10 minutes. Big Difference.



BernerMax said:


> View attachment 203473
> Yeah I blame the adult supervising the kids (there was one right)


No, there was no adult in sight. The kids were (I'm guessing) between the ages of 7-10

But, when I was at that age, my parents didn't hover over me and supervise me 24/7



OwnedbyACDs said:


> They werent playing an organized match, they were just messing around anyway, the OP mentioned hockey sticks, which, last time I checked, arent used to tennis. So if you wanted to get technical about it, these kids werent using the court for its original intended purpose, either.


Exactly.




CptJack said:


> And honestly, a hockey game is much harder to pack up, pause, and restart than a dog training session. Also, kids don't drive, and have limited range so fewer options of finding an alternative location.


They didn't even pack anything up, there was no need. They left their equipment right in the middle where they were playing and we kept the dogs away from it. Easy peasy.



ireth0 said:


> Asking at all is rude, IMO.
> 
> If a random person came up to me and very politely asked me for some of my ice cream, being polite wouldn't make it an okay thing to do.


Even if asking is rude, you still have the choice to say "NO, go away".



I don't feel bad about asking them to borrow the court for 10 minutes. Even if it were adults in there, I STILL wouldn't feel bad about asking for some time. And even if there was a parent there, I STILL would have asked. Some of you think that rude, but in reality, rude would have been me just barging into the court with the dogs and bullying them out of the space.

For the record, we took the dogs to the court again last weekend, and there were a few girls riding thier bikes around in the court. So we did another loop around the block and by the time we came back the court was empty.
I did not have the trainer with us, so I was not worried about a time shcedule, or having to reschedule everyone for another time that works for everyone.


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## Shep (May 16, 2013)

Lako said:


> Even if asking is rude, you still have the choice to say "NO, go away".


Yes, and 7-10 year-olds have no problem at all saying "No, go away" to adults, right?

Look, these kids, at least the one who bashed your dog with a hockey stick, sound like right little terrors. I'm not excusing them, and I haven't read a single post here that implied it's OK to bash dogs with hockey sticks. But it's also not OK to talk about "despising" an entire huge subgroup of the human race. If you said that about any other group of people you'd be called a bigot, at the very least.

Lots of people don't like German Shepherds. They're guilty of making sweeping generalizations based on a few representatives of the breed. Sound familiar?


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## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

Shep said:


> Yes, and 7-10 year-olds have no problem at all saying "No, go away" to adults, right?


Absolutely. What if I were to ask them if they wanted free candy from the back of my van? They have the ability to say "NO go away" for any situation.



Shep said:


> Lots of people don't like German Shepherds. They're guilty of making sweeping generalizations based on a few representatives of the breed. Sound familiar?


Yes it does sound familiar. But do I let it bother me? No. That's their own opinnion and who am I to change it for them? Maybe they hate GSD's because of a bad experience, or they are scared of them because they are a large dog, or because a neighbor has one that barks at them, the possibilities are endless. They are allowed to hate something based on past experiences.

Exactly the same way I'm allowed to hate kids based on my personal experiences. I have no patience for kids who cry, scream, throw tantrums, disobey, shove hockey sticks in my dogs face, ect. I don't even like the kids that I'm related to, and have never met a kid that I actually like. Those are my personal experiences and I'm entitled to them. 

I'm sure there is something in your life that you hate, and I'm not going to call you a Bigot for it.


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## JanJanBunny (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm a mom. By bad decisions when I was 16 rofl. I HATE kids. HATE. HATE. HATE. I of course, love mine, but hate the rest! With THAT said, I learned a valuable lesson. Its not the kids that I hate, no, I hate kids when their parents are dumbasses! Yes, kids do things on their own, but if the parent had taught them how to be respectful, it wouldn't have happened. You had MUCH more patience than I did! I would have found a way to hurt that little brat >.>; Even if it was just tripping him with my foot.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Lako said:


> Absolutely. What if I were to ask them if they wanted free candy from the back of my van? They have the ability to say "NO go away" for any situation.


Yes, because someone seen as an authority figure (adult vs another kid) is so easy to just blow off. When I was that age I would have left the court too if an adult asked me to, regardless of if I really wanted to or not.

Did you read the whole thread? Do you not see the issue with this argument?

Like a police officer 'asking' you to do something you don't legally have to do. Sure, you technically have free will and can choose to blow them off, but there are implied repercussions because they have perceived authority over you.


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## Lako (Apr 2, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> Yes, because someone seen as an authority figure (adult vs another kid) is so easy to just blow off. When I was that age I would have left the court too if an adult asked me to, regardless of if I really wanted to or not.
> 
> Did you read the whole thread? Do you not see the issue with this argument?
> 
> Like a police officer 'asking' you to do something you don't legally have to do. Sure, you technically have free will and can choose to blow them off, but there are implied repercussions because they have perceived authority over you.


And what would the repercussions be for the kids if they had told me no? Absolutely nothing. I don't know these kids, they don't know me. What would I have done if they said no? I would have walked away and rescheduled everything with my trainer.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

^^It doesn't matter that YOU know nothing would happen, THEY didn't know you from a hole in the ground and didn't know how you'd react.

I mean, I don't think that asking them was worse than Hitler or anything. Just a tad odd and a bit rude. But a 7-10 year old realistically probably isn't going to feel comfortable telling a grown-up "no" in this situation.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Doesn't anyone use tennis courts to actually play tennis?

And didn't I read, on this very forum, that the surface on many tennis courts is very hard on a dog's paws? (I may have imagined that. I have a very active dream-life.)

And wasn't nearly everyone here once a child? How'd you all turn out?


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## The Feather Duster (Apr 14, 2010)

I thought that Ron E had put this not-so-nice thread to rest with his wise words (and that is not in any way meant to be sarcastic).

Kids generally, if raised right, are not little demons from hell. The problem is that some of them are not raised right and that is on their clueless parents.

Kids are just little mini-me, unformed beings that can (and should) be molded and shaped into decent human beings as they grow and mature. I love kids to death and have taught them for many years.

Also, I loved and laughed at what Rescued wrote and thought it was very good of her to come back and clarify when a couple of people got tetchy about it. She didn't mean anything by it and was just being lighthearted. Nothing wrong with a laugh.

"Despise" and ""Detest" are strong words. If anyone feels that strongly about a group of Little people, Big people or whomever, it may be a good idea to take a very close look at yourself. Maybe a close look in a mirror will reveal some not so lovely truths about yourself.

And darn, I wasn't even going to comment on this thread but geesh ...


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

RonE said:


> Doesn't anyone use tennis courts to actually play tennis?
> 
> And didn't I read, on this very forum, that the surface on many tennis courts is very hard on a dog's paws? (I may have imagined that. I have a very active dream-life.)
> 
> And wasn't nearly everyone here once a child? How'd you all turn out?


As a kid I didnt even like other kids, I found them annoying, loud and obnoxious.


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## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

Lako said:


> I'm sure there is something in your life that you hate, and I'm not going to call you a Bigot for it.


I hate beets. Beets aren't people.

Hating one person because they did something lousy to you does not make you a bigot. Hating an entire group of people is the very definition of bigotry.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Quick poll: Can anyone think of a good reason to continue this thread? 

If you're entertained by it, you should probably take a close look at yourself.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

RonE said:


> Quick poll: Can anyone think of a good reason to continue this thread?


Guess not.


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