# Good companion and guard dog breed?



## muki89 (May 27, 2008)

Next year I'll be moving to Bangkok where I will be attending University and possibly spending the rest of my life. I leave behind my beautiful Malamute, my dorky Dalmatian and my cheeky DSH tabby who will be sorely missed.

I'm planning to obtain one or two dogs. Mainly as companions since my Thai (even though I'm a native) is horrendous and it's so comforting to hug and talk to a pet.

If I get two, one will be my companion and the other will be more of a guard and family dog. If I only get one, it'll have to be a mix of both. I'll love to have a Malamute but the extreme heat there will be cruel.

Guard dog is essential as my family there are quite wealthy and my grandma is not on good terms with her ex husband (Who has tried to kill her once).

What I'm looking for in both dogs:
Intelligence - A mix of collie intelligence (blind obedience) and independent thinking and cheek of Malamutes (I find it endearing even though it can be a right pain)
Coat will be able to cope with the heat - German Shepards and Goldens seem to be able to stand the Bangkok summers pretty well
Temperament - Must be able to put up with 4 rowdy kids (who will be supervised and warned not to annoy the dog)
Loyalty and protectiveness - Won't be inclined to wander and will protect the home and family members
Size - I prefer large dogs, you can hug them properly and I love large dogs personalities and surprising gentleness

The companion dog will be my best friend. I plan to take it every where I go so it will learn to travel. I hope it will like water (since my Mal and Dal hate it...) I'm planing to clicker train it, teaching it obedience and would like to do agility trials with it. It'll sleep at the foot of my bed and will be wary of strangers. I'm going to love it to bits

The family dog must be a protector. It will get along with or tolerate the kids. It will be gentle with my grandma and will be taught not to be rough around her. It will also be loved by me but it will be shared with the family. It must be a large dog, around 40-50kg.

Both dogs will have plenty of room to run around in and must get along with each other. Breed does not have to meet all the requirements.

Breeds I'm considering:
First and foremost, German Shepard (my grandma loves these) Intelligent and highly trainable as well as protective
Doberman - Good guardians and I love their sleek look
Akita - Great guardians, loyal and protective but are as stubborn as a mule

I think that's all... Anyway, breed suggestions and some examples if you happen to own the breed I'm looking for.


----------



## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

i'd say a pit bull if you weren't looking for a home guardian. a well treated pit bull will defend it's family but not property. they are very good with kids and respond beautifully to clicker training. the are also intellegent and good at dog sports. 

short coats, average size is around 45 to 70 lbs. 

you would have to have one dog only most likely and check for bsl in your area first though.

perhaps a cane corso or other mastiff of some sort...


look at this site for good pit bull info

www.workingpitbull.com

ps. pits don't train well as guardians. they were bred to love their people so much they would die for them. they defend instinctively. but will remain friendly towards those who remain friendly.


----------



## HoundedByHounds (Aug 17, 2007)

muki89 said:


> Akita - Great guardians, loyal and protective but are as stubborn as a mule
> 
> I .


Akitas carry JUST as much coat as a Malamute...so if that's a concern to you, they mightn't be a good fit. They also are very good guard dogs...but not always the best choice for big households where people come and go frequently or lots of activity and visitors are commonplace. Also not the best choice for multidog households...in general...tho opp sex can work okay providing both are fixed.


----------



## petstar (Dec 7, 2007)

Doberman kept coming to mind while I was reading your post. I think it would be a great all around dog for your sitaution.


----------



## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

Here are some breeds that came to mind that you may not have considered:
Cane Corso
Dogo Argentino
Bull Mastiff
Mastiff....basically different types of Mastiff (Dogue de Bordeaux, Neapolitan, etc.)

A lot of guardian type breeds aren't bets friends with other dogs. If you are planning on getting two, make sure they are opposite sex.

IMO, a "gaurdian" dog is just the same as a companion dog...it is a companion dog that will protect you as well. Unless by companion you ment small.


----------



## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

I second the suggestion of a Pit Bull. They are a wonderful breed, but as the poster said, check the breed specific legislation laws in the area where you are moving. However, I believe they can do wonderfully with other dogs if raised properly around them. My 10 year old lives happily with my 5 other dogs, and would be so lonely without them. He also does great with strangers dogs, and with my cats. He is wonderfully protective, yet not aggressive. He's a good guard dog with the house and a wonderful protector of his master if threatened.

Other good breeds would be a rottweiler or a doberman, in my opinion. Not sure about the water, but I know my Pit Bull LOVES water and his favorite past time is playing in the big water sprinkler:










If you get two dogs, it's always best to get puppies, or young dogs, so that they can be raised together and trained easier.

Good luck!


----------



## Bextastic (Apr 8, 2008)

I see you mentioned German Shepherds - sounds like a pretty good fit to me. They are great at protecting family and property as well as being good companion dogs. And they do like swimming. If you get the normal kind with the short coat (not like mine) it should do alright in the heat. As for the patient temperament - keep in mind they start out hyper and don't settle into mellow big dog mode until roughly two years old, and even then they will need lots of exercise.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm going to say the same as before. 

I would say get a mix of both. Well I mean even if you get a guard dog/guardian breed you still want them to be a companion and be a good dog right? I understand you also might want to get a companion breed too.

My main recommendation would be Cane Corso. I don't know if there is a breed to meet all your needs, but I think they would be a good fit.

They are intelligent but I'm not sure any dog will be collie/malamute/independent all into one. Basically they are smart as any dog and obedient. It takes consistency and some patience but they are not really hard or stubborn. They are very loving and want to please you, they want to make you happy. Use positive reinforcement. Don't scold because that really doesn't help. You can correct and say no, but don't get angry or upset. They are alert to things that are amiss but they are not big barkers. They will let you know if somethings wrong/out of place. Generally they are friendly with welcomed guest and want to make friends, but are defensive with those who are not friends.
They have a short coat, they can take the heat, it gets triple digits here. Some I know live in very hot/humid type climates. Heat stroke is a worry for almost any breed though if it is too hot, outside exerting themselves or without ample shade and no water. So its always soemthing to consider even with breeds that handle the heat well.
They are very loving with their family, they love everyone within the family kids included. Like any large breed they might knock down small kids by accident. They also like to paw so they will heat you with their feet and will do the same with children. They use their legs almost like arms and wrap their paws around things like hands. When raised with kids and brought up right though they are great with them. They are also more considerate and gentle with the smaller ones as they know what is proper. I think with how the kids sound they would be fine around a CC. They typically are pretty tolerant too, not easily annoyed they just love attention.
That is certainly them, they don't not typically wonder, they stick closer to home. They don't want to leave their territory. They bond closely with their people.
They are a large breed 90-110lbs, sometimes a little bigger or smaller. Most important is balanced, not exact weight.

Another breed that might fit would be a Boerboel. Compared to the CC they mature slower, are larger (typically not always, this might not be a big deal for you anyway), they seem to me that they have more health problems in general. Obviously a well bred one you're likely to not have health issues but there are certain problems popping up that there isn't exactly health testing for. They like a CC are not wanderers, again they will stick close to their home, not leaving. They are again defensive with strangers, won't allow intruders. When raised with children and taught the ropes they get along great. They are very sensitive, loving and gentle in nature. Just like CC. They love attention. I think training can be similar in style. They are sensitive so you need to be aware of that, no being too harsh. They also have a short coat and do well in the heat for the most part. Some with a shorter muzzle might not do great running a marathon or something but general activity in the heat doesn't seem to cause them any grief.

These others are breeds that I haven't owned but ones that you might consider Bullmastiff, maybe a Neo, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Dogue De Bordeaux, maybe even an American Bulldog. Some ABs can be a little DA and Neos can be too. So if you were getting another companion dog might not be a good fit.



MyRescueCrew said:


> I second the suggestion of a Pit Bull. They are a wonderful breed, but as the poster said, check the breed specific legislation laws in the area where you are moving. However, *I believe they can do wonderfully with other dogs if raised properly around them.* My 10 year old lives happily with my 5 other dogs, and would be so lonely without them. He also does great with strangers dogs, and with my cats. He is wonderfully protective, yet not aggressive. He's a good guard dog with the house and a wonderful protector of his master if threatened.
> 
> Other good breeds would be a rottweiler or a doberman, in my opinion.
> 
> If you get two dogs, it's always best to get puppies, or young dogs, so that they can be raised together and trained easier.


It depends on the dog. If they are going to turn on then raising them properly around other dogs and socializing them is probably not going to prevent it. Just as some not socialized and raised improperly still love other animals. You have to look at each dog as an individual. Some don't tolerate other dogs and some love other dogs. Most of mine are stuck in puppy land and play like big, goofy puppies with other dogs. They can be social dogs and enjoy the company of other canine companions. (other animals too) Oh and can we see pics!!!!!! Have you posted in the gallery yet?


----------



## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

What do you mean by guard dogs? Protective by nature or trained? Well, it requires a lot of training and finding the right temperament to protect the whole family. In my humble opinion, many dogs don't meet that requirements. There are tons of nervy dogs out that people though they are being "protective."

Even if you have a "protective" breed, it can attract people who are interested to steal your dog for dog meat or dogfighting. I've seen crazy people abhor dogs and poison them. Do you have any plan on how to protect your dogs from people tossing toxic things into your yard?


----------



## mom2kdg (Jan 12, 2007)

Take a look at the lab breed. They are great companions, family dogs, smart, trainable and great guard dogs.


----------



## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Doberman was jumping out at me as the breed to get when I was reading your post too. Definitely give it a look.


----------



## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm not trying to start an argument - but why can't you take the pets you have? If you're planning on moving there for good why not take them along? Or are they family pets for family who are staying here?

What about dogs native to the area, maybe that would be better than something that won't be able to handle the environment.


----------



## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

How do you intend on getting this dog? Will the dog travel with you to Bangkok? How competent are you with training a guard dog?


----------



## muki89 (May 27, 2008)

I was planning on buying the dog from a reputable breeder in Bangkok then sending the guard dog to training. The companion dog I will train myself. I'll also be training the dogs to only take food on command.

I can't take the dogs I currently have cause they don't just belong to me, but to my immediate family. My parents and siblings are remaining in Sydney and it'll be better for the dogs to stay with them.

At the moment I'm leaning towards German Shepards since my family there have kept them before. With Pit Bulls they don't seem to be quite common there and would probably be too hard to get.

On native dogs, the only breed I know of is the Thai Ridgeback but it seems too aggressive and I'm too unfamiliar with the breed to be comfortable buying one.


----------



## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

muki89 said:


> I was planning on buying the dog from a reputable breeder in Bangkok then sending the guard dog to training.


Perhaps that's where you should start. Inquire with the training facility. they would better know what kind of dogs are available in your area, and perhaps could even recommend a few breeds for you. Since you're going to send the dog to training it would better serve you to find the best trainer available. But from my experience, the better guard dogs require their owners to be an integral part of training, not to mention how you'll have to manage the dog so as not to confuse a family member with a predator. I have no idea what the prospects are in finding a reputable breeder in Bangkok but I'd imagine it's pretty tough.


----------



## muki89 (May 27, 2008)

I'm looking up breeders on the internet now and I've come across two. One looks very promising with pictures of the dogs including show photos and prizes.

I'll also ask relatives where they got their GSDs.

EDIT: Promising breeder also breeds Champion Goldens and I'm fairly sure that it's his champ that is in the Pedigree ads shown on TV in Thailand right now...


----------



## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

It's worth pointing out that a golden should NOT be any type of guard dog- if they are, that's REALLY abnormal golden temperament. So I assume you meant for the companion. 

If you're planning to go back to Australia in a few years, I'd stick to medium-sized breeds (ie, a female Dobe or GSD or even a Malinois) and just get one dog- since I assume the dog will have to go through quarantine on the way home with you, which gets ludicrously expensive.


----------



## Lovin'Dawgs (May 22, 2008)

I see that most of the dogs mentioned here are full breeds and you intend to get such. So you can totally ignore this post probably, but I have found that half-breeds (with know parents, in that I could see the mom and the dad) with golden retriever/german shepherd and also border collie or healer/doberman mixes have been exceptional dogs for being good with family but also very protective of family. So just an idea that if you need one dog with a dual personality, perhaps a half breed that you can verify the two parents is an option.


----------



## muki89 (May 27, 2008)

I'm not even interested in getting a Golden. Love the breed but just not suitable for me. Too goofy? And I know they make bad guard dogs... If I get one it'll probably get itself killed.

I'm also very certain that I will not be moving back to Australia, I'll need to come back on short visits but I don't intend to spend my life here. I visited Bangkok a month ago and this is the only way I can put it, my soul feels so much more at home there. I knew that it was true when I returned to Sydney to have it feel like a strange place.

Good half breeds are very hard to find in Thailand. Generally you get purebred or total mutts. As in mutts that have long pedigrees of mixed-breed parents. To the point that you can barely tell what breed may be in it. As much as I would like to rescue one, many are bred for dog fights and personality and temperment is not guaranteed.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Rottweiler's do not fair well in the heat either.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

mom2kdg said:


> Take a look at the lab breed. They are great companions, family dogs, smart, trainable and great guard dogs.


Labs don't make great guard dogs. Perhaps with the correct training they could make some sort of guardian, there are certain training facilities that claim to be able to train "any breed" as a protection or guard dog which some consider questionable. They can make great watch dogs. A guard dog is a totally different animal all together. One that is defensive, will bite/defend and will show aggressive tendencies to strangers. It is considered a serious fault for a Lab to be HA and highly looked down upon. Breeds were created to do certain task. There are lots of guardian/protection breeds to chose from, those will be anyone's best bet.


----------



## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

muki89 said:


> I'm looking up breeders on the internet now and I've come across two. One looks very promising with pictures of the dogs including show photos and prizes.
> 
> I'll also ask relatives where they got their GSDs.


 I really don't want to be rude, but showline GSD who are doing protection tend to be crap. I wouldn't buy a top german shepherd from showline. I have been involved with ring sports, schutzhund, and personal protection for a long time.  I'm sure people who are on this forum might find it offensive, but I'm not trying to bash their dogs in anyway. I'm speaking of their abilities to do personal protection training. They aren't that great, really, but they are so darn gorgeous to look at. 

If I want a very good working/protection german shepherd, I will look into Czech/west German lines. (No showline GSD) I would be cautious about who I am sending my dog for protection training. Because they would charge you about 20,000.00 for a trained dog, later you find out that dog isn't that trained. All of sudden that person ran away with your 20 K. Be careful, there are a lot of scumbags who would scam and steal your money off of dog that you thought was trained.

I'm not trying to advocate this breeder; however, I have a huge respect for Ivan Balabanov. He is considered one of the best trainers around and he has great credentials. I would taken his tips seriously. If I want a well trained dog, I might go for his dogs.

http://www.ivanbalabanov.com/


----------



## muki89 (May 27, 2008)

Can you give me more info on GSDs? More info on schutzhund? While they are protection dogs do they still make good companions?

Both companion and guard dogs I will buy as pups and be heavily involved in their training and socializing.


----------



## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Another dog that makes a great guard dog and is very protective, as well as be a great companion is the Cattle Dog. And they can do well with kids as well, my Betty has gone to the neighbors to play with their kids, and one time their dad had to come and get me because Betty would not let him near the kids. So I went and got Betty so he could get his own kids, lol. They are not a large dog, but they do well in the heat. Their coats don't need a whole lot of maintenance either, as they have a short coat. They can do well in the cold, as well as the hot. Also to mention, when I first got Betty, she had got loose from the gal that worked at the humane society and threw an adult pit bull back 6 feet. Also, when on one of our walks, she had to fend off 3 rotties. But then you also have to weigh in, as my sister who is a vet tech says, they can also be totally neurotic as well, lol. That's what she says they are, lol. They are extremely independent, and protective of his person, and very intelligent. They are a medium dog with a big punch, as my sister puts it, lol. And Betty is all of that and more, lol.


----------



## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

Dobermans are generally not in love with water. My family has had dobermans for years, and Ollie is the first water dog. But that love for water is in her genes, passed own fom her mother's side. So you could always ask the breeder how there lines tend to feel about water. But that will not be a guarntee. 

They don't mind the heat too much. I NEVER excersice them in the heat, because they can't handle that. So we tend to do our run at 5 in the morning during the hotter months. But they enjoy laying outside and sleeping in the sun. I usually have to call Dusk in the house before I leave. He'll lay out on the patio all afternoon if I'm home. But I'm always to nervous to let them walk in and out of the house when I'm not there.


----------



## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

muki89 said:


> Can you give me more info on GSDs? More info on schutzhund? While they are protection dogs do they still make good companions?
> 
> Both companion and guard dogs I will buy as pups and be heavily involved in their training and socializing.


First of all, you need to educate yourself about owning a personal protection dog. You can't just buy one and expect it to protect you with the money you can buy. If you handled a protection dog in the wrong way, you would have a super dangerous dog in your hand. You want to be involved with their trainings and getting them to recognize that you are someone they need to listen to. You must understand what kind of animal you are bringing in and when you invite somebody over. You MUST crate the PP dog and don't let your friends and family play and tease it. To have a dog like this, you must control his environment 100%.

_*A woman from different dog forum bought a German shepherd schH titles 3 and the importer told her that the dog is good with kids. Four months later, the dog bit one of her grandkids and severed one of her hands from biting by accidentally. The woman doesn't know how to handle the dog and now she is very afraid. Guess what, she is trying to find the dog a new home, but she paid 20 grand for a schH 3 dog. She didn't do any research because she is rich enough to get what she wants. Now after the dog bit her grandkids and her, she no longer wants to keep it.*_ 

Having a personal protection dog is very different from having a regular house pet. They aren't something you can toy around and I wouldn't be so gullible to believe someone saying that this dog is 100% safe with my family and kids. You and your family have to take precaution and treat with respect. Don't spoil them rotten like you always do with your pet dogs. 

The definition for guard dogs and protection dogs are not the same. Protection dogs are trained with commands and other things. Guard dogs are just something to alert you that someone's coming into the yard. It doesn't necessary mean that they are trained. It is nothing like you see in a stupid hollywood movie with those rotts and Doberman barking and chasing bad guys. 

By the way.... schutzhund dogs and PP dogs are not the same. Don't get this in the wrong way, schtuzhund is just a dog sport and that is all. They still can get scared if a criminal approached and hit them with a stick. They will run away from the criminal.


----------

