# Question About Food And Bloat...



## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

So I've been reading info on the net and now... I think I need some nerve pills, LOL.

I always never really worried about bloat, with all my dachshunds, my two beagles, or my other small dogs. I do have my 50lb dalmation/pointer mix, and a 85lb pit bull, but other than that, all small dogs. And I was always one to go, "Oh, it's a big dog thing." Working for my vet, we saw plenty bloat cases, but it was mostly danes, a bloodhound, a newfoundland, and a german shepherd. Then I started talking to people I know, including the breeder I know who raises Dachshunds, and she said that bloat in dachshunds is a more common thing than noted. And then my vet agreed with this. So then I started looking online, and found several places about stories of dachshunds with bloat. (And a few sites on larger, deep-chested beagles, like Bo who is 36 pounds and deeeeep-chested, who have gotten bloat).

I'm curious, because I can't find much on the internet about this, but does dry dog food vs. wet canned food play any part? I know Perdue did a study that concluded about foods that used chicken fat and citric acid as a preservative had a higher rate of bloat, ect. But the food I feed doesn't cause that to come into play anyways, because it uses vitamin e, not citric acid.

However, I used to feed raw, and then went back to dry kibble. I'm curious if feeding a dog all canned food would prevent, or lessen the risk, of bloat. For two reasons: the can food won't swell up and expand once ingested like dry kibble, and dogs will drink less water because of the moisture of the food.

Or, if you let dry kibble soak and swell up like wet food, as opposed to feeding straight, dry kibble.

I'm curious about this because I do notice some of my guys gulp down their food, and then gulp down tons of water because they're thirsty. But every now and then, I'll feed them canned and they lick up the canned, and rarely (if at all) drink much water afterwards. This almost seems safer.

Thoughts anyone? I'm being an extremely nervous nelly tonight (I live an hour from my vet, and a ways away from the CLOSEST vet there is out here, who closes at 4:30(!!), even though I've never used him. I'm also over an hour from the nearest E-Vet. Scary.)

Curious on y'alls thoughts about the wet/dry food relationship.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

My Irish setter mentor feeds dry. But she runs HOT water over it (until the top layer of kibble 'bubbles') and then feeds it as soon as we put the water in.

She's only had two bloat cases in 25+ years. 

I think RAW has the less bloat risk of all the foods.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

i think most of that research perdue put out on bloat was proven wrong, mostly BS. a raised feeder does not help prevent or cause bloat, etc.

im a freak on bloat having my 2 danes. heres things you can do to help try to prevent it:

1- feed smaller meals. i still have my dogs on 3 meals a day because one eats 6 cups, so she gets 3- 2cup meals. the smaller the meal, the less food in the belly.

2- dont let them eat their food so fast. use large rocks to eat around in their dish, or get a "slow down" dish

3- you can test your food. put a piece of kibble in water. let it sit. watch and see what it does. if the food swells up real large there is a bigger chance of bloat than if the food just crumbles

4- you can limit water while they eat. or add the water right to the food. if you add water right to the food, make sure you feed it as soon as you put the water on it (dont let it sit) or else it starts to deplete the nutrients in the food

5- limit play/exercise before and after eating. wait 1/2hr after any activity to eat, and an hour after eating. this gives them time to settle.


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## PureMutt (Feb 6, 2009)

GreatDaneMom said:


> i think most of that research perdue put out on bloat was proven wrong, mostly BS. a raised feeder does not help prevent or cause bloat, etc.
> 
> im a freak on bloat having my 2 danes. heres things you can do to help try to prevent it:
> 
> ...



Wow, that is awesome advice.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

I, too, worry about bloat. It seems to happen during the midnight hours, and wouldn't you know those are the hours I work (midnight to 8:00 am). 

I do feed dry kibble - EVO. However, it's supplemented with fresh ground meats that are poached in water with garlic and a celery stalk. I have never used hot water to pour over the EVO kibble. Their food bowls are on the floor, not on raised feeders. I allow them to first run off their "zoomies" in the morning before being fed breakfast. I feed two main meals a day, with snacks in between. Snacks consist of foods like sardines in olive oil, hard boiled eggs, sweet potatoes, live culture plain yogurt, low fat cottage cheese (usually with wild Alaskan salmon oil drizzeled in), braunsweiger (liver sausage), grape tomatoes, blueberries, strawberries, cubes of apple and pear that have been peeled, omlettes made with French Mountain Cheese and fresh spinach, along with poached ground meats: bison, venison, lamb, and, chicken breast meat, shredded while warm with a fork. 

I also make pot roast, with baby carrots and new potatoes, which I share with them once a month, and/or meatloaf made with oatmeal, cottage cheese, and other ingredients, along with pasta with a homemade red sauce and meatballs. 

Oh, and PIZZA! LOL Not often, but hey, they love it, and they let me know when the delivery guy is pulling up. Freaks him out! LOL

I do not limit water (notice that they do not drink with meals), nor do I allow them to fully exercise after eating. I pray a lot!


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## Dad2labs (Jan 25, 2009)

Anybody can try all these folk remedies they want to but in all seriousness there is nothing you can do to reduce the risk of bloat. No one knows what causes it. No one even has a good educated guess what causes it. If you don't know what causes it, you can't prevent it. I suspect the 2 greatest causes are genetics and stress.

My suggestion is to forget bloat but be aware of the symptoms and have a plan of action at to what you will do if your dog starts bloating. You might have a daytime plan and a nighttime plan.

Try Googling "bloat kit" and you will get some advice as to what to do if your dog bloats.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Dad2labs said:


> Anybody can try all these folk remedies they want to but in all seriousness there is nothing you can do to reduce the risk of bloat. No one knows what causes it. No one even has a good educated guess what causes it. If you don't know what causes it, you can't prevent it. I suspect the 2 greatest causes are genetics and stress.
> 
> My suggestion is to forget bloat but be aware of the symptoms and have a plan of action at to what you will do if your dog starts bloating. You might have a daytime plan and a nighttime plan.
> 
> Try Googling "bloat kit" and you will get some advice as to what to do if your dog bloats.


wow that was the most ill informed post ive ever read


ETA: that "bloat kit" requires you to tube your dog. thats rediculous. for one, its easy to screw up and have the tube run into the LUNGS and not the STOMACH, and 2, not many people could even tube their own dog. its hard enough tubing a horse, nevertheless a dog.


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## Dad2labs (Jan 25, 2009)

GreatDaneMom said:


> wow that was the most ill informed post ive ever read


We really learn a lot from posts like this ... how is it ill informed?

Lets look at your folk prevenatives ...

1. Feed small meals ... I know a lot of people even with breeds that are prone to bloat to feed once a day and even every other day with no problems. There is no proof or even serious suggestion that large meals lead to bloat. They don't.

2. Don't let them eat too fast ... there is no reputable research that concludes fast eating causes bloat. It doesn't. There isn't even a definition for "too fast"

3. Dipping food in water to see what happens just doesn't make any sense. Sure some foods swell up more and if your dog eats a lot of it dry, their stomach may bloat in the sense of swelling up but that is not the bloat that we are discussion here.

4. Don't let them drink water just before or after eating. ... There is no reputable research that concludes that water will cause bloat.

5. Thats really an old folk remedy. ... Again there is no evidence that this will prevent bloat. This one comes from the same people as don't go swimming for an hour after eating. 

How are all those well informed?? This is stuff people make up. Most of this has been around for 100 years and dogs still get bloat and die. 

Dogs are just as likely to bloat hours before or after eating as just after. There is no substantial link to eating or drinking anything causing bloat.

There is no decrease in the incidence of bloat no matter all the folk remedies people try. The smart thing to do is just learn how to handle it. There are plenty of web pages that give good instructions on how to handle bloat.



> ETA: that "bloat kit" requires you to tube your dog. thats rediculous. for one, its easy to screw up and have the tube run into the LUNGS and not the STOMACH, and 2, not many people could even tube their own dog. its hard enough tubing a horse, nevertheless a dog.


The bloat kit does not require anything. It simply provides tools and hints on how to help your dog if he bloats. If my dog is dying from bloat and I can't get him to the vet in less than an hour, you better believe I would try tubing him. Doing something dangerous is much better than just sitting there and watching him die.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I've read that having baby Gas-X on hand is good, because it will buy you some time to get a bloaty dog to the vet. Is that true or just an old wives' tale?


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## Dad2labs (Jan 25, 2009)

Willowy said:


> I've read that having baby Gas-X on hand is good, because it will buy you some time to get a bloaty dog to the vet. Is that true or just an old wives' tale?


Yes! I was trying to think of the name of it as I was making the previous post. It can be a lifesaver or it might do nothing. It won't hurt anything. PhaZyme is another pill that might help. I think its a different brand name of the same thing.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Good. I bought some the other day.....the liquid kind, because I don't think a pill would dissolve fast enough to do any good.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

I believe you can get a bloat kit from the collie health foundation. I think owners of bloat prone dogs should keep one around, and know how to use one. 

I know of someone who fixed her dogs bloat case by acupressure points. She was too far away from a vet and the dog hadn't torsioned or anything like that. 

I was told a long time ago by an old time breeder that, "if they are going to get bloat, they'll bloat". I'm inclined to agree with her. Dogs that are perfectly managed bloat as much as dogs that have nothing special done to them.

I agree with dad2labs, should the dire need arise, I *will* use my bloat kit. I'm not going to sit there like a dummy and wring my hands 'cuz there's no vet. But then, I'm the oddball, we've actually sewn up a dog before.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

Willowy said:


> I've read that having baby Gas-X on hand is good, because it will buy you some time to get a bloaty dog to the vet. Is that true or just an old wives' tale?


Simethacone (sp?) does work, and can give you time to get the dog to the vet.



> I was told a long time ago by an old time breeder that, "if they are going to get bloat, they'll bloat". I'm inclined to agree with her. Dogs that are perfectly managed bloat as much as dogs that have nothing special done to them.



Sadly, this is true.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

I don't worry about my dogs getting bloat for the most part. I feed my large dogs raw and I think there might be less risk with that. I did worry with Boxers but not that greatly. 

My friends Dane 10 cups a day into 2 meals, 5 cups at a time. No bloat. 

I think maybe environmental factors play a part but there is also that individual dog factor. Whether it be genetics or some other reason why they are prone to it. 

Some of my dogs drink lots after they eat, some bloat up but don't get bloat. Others have the water in their food. My dogs have eaten major amounts of kibble (including those who normally eat raw got into it) and not got bloat, which of course made them very thirsty where they wanted lots of water. Certain times they did throw up some of the water/kibble, did poop out undigested kibble, had a lot of gas or did have diarrhea. I know they were uncomfortable but other then that ok. 

I don't go out and exercise them right after eating but I also don't make them take "bed rest" either, some are very active won't stop to settle much even after eating.



txcollies said:


> I believe you can get a bloat kit from the collie health foundation. I think owners of bloat prone dogs should keep one around, and know how to use one.
> 
> I know of someone who fixed her dogs bloat case by acupressure points. She was too far away from a vet and the dog hadn't torsioned or anything like that.
> 
> ...


I agree too. I'm not telling people not to use the managing techniques, it could work and maybe make the owner feel more comfortable but there is a chance it doesn't work or do anything. Which means don't count on it to prevent it, still watch the signs, have a kit, a plan, ects if you have a breed prone to bloat just in case. 

I don't have a problem tubing. You have to make sure to start/go in correctly but I don't find it that incredibly hard. Then again I also find suturing is a snap too. I actually didn't even like the last ones my vet did. 

I'd love to see a study or data collected on dogs who bloat to see if their is genetic link. More then just being prone by breed but related dogs within a breed or specific bloodlines that are prone to it.


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