# To Show or not to show...



## Settican (Apr 5, 2008)

There's an open conformation show coming up this weekend, on the 5th. I thought I was going to be working so I forgot about it, turns out I'm not working after all and now I'm considering entering Ecco (new name still to be decided on ) in the baby puppy class. There's going to be other things going on apart from the conformation (agility, flyball, obedience, CD etc), so it would be a good experience for her to be around so much activity.

Problem is we've done no training for the ring, I mean zero, at the moment when I try to gait her she thinks it's an awesome game and tries to grab her leash or jump up on me :nono: She doesn't self stack very well, but she is pretty good with allowing me to place her feet and staying (although this could all be forgotten on the day because of distractions). I'm hoping the judge will be a little bit lenient on her behaviour because of her age, but yeah... any one got any tips/advice for us to work with over the next few days in case we do decide to go through with this?


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## TonyBaby (Aug 24, 2007)

You never know until you try. I have thought many times my dog isn't ready or prepared and when I go to the show to spectate, those dogs aren't any better behaved than mine. "Local" shows are nothing like Westminster, so you might as well just jump in!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

judges are often very understanding of young puppies and they don't expect too much from them. They understand that the puppies are just here for fun and to get used to the show ring.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

I personally think it's pretty rude to put a dog in any ring that they aren't trained for. It's great if you can hand stack her, but will she stay put for a stranger touching her? That she won't gait without jumping on you is my main concern though. She doesn't have to be perfect for sure, but I think it's unfair to the dog, the other competitors, and the judge to put a totally unprepared dog in the ring.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

RaeganW said:


> I personally think it's pretty rude to put a dog in any ring that they aren't trained for. It's great if you can hand stack her, but will she stay put for a stranger touching her? That she won't gait without jumping on you is my main concern though. She doesn't have to be perfect for sure, but I think it's unfair to the dog, the other competitors, and the judge to put a totally unprepared dog in the ring.


This, and also the idea that an unprepared dog can lead to a frustrated handler, which, in turn, may lead to a dog who's anxious about being in the ring.

I say wait until she is really ready.


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## Dobelove (Jun 17, 2010)

Is there any fun/puppy matches coming up around you? I would start her there, the judges will usually be a lot more understanding. Some judges can be grumps about puppies, especially untrained ones. I personally think it's fine and all dogs have to start somewhere but it would be better if her first experience is a good one


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## Settican (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks for the input guys  This is about as close as I'll get to a fun/puppy match, as the open shows are the only ones which have the baby puppy class. She will let someone put their hands on her while she stands, had a friend of mine do this to her last weekend.

I worked a bit on gaiting her yesterday, she's much better about not jumping up, but she still makes the odd grab for the lead. Will try and get her into a ringcraft class on Saturday if the trainer turns up and see how she does there


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I personally think it's pretty rude to put a dog in any ring that they aren't trained for.


Not uncommon in the GSD ring :-/ Many breeders/handlers let the dog learn "on the job". It really ticks me off, especially when I spend so much time working my puppy and making sure she's rocksolid for being gone over, as well as gaiting well (at various speeds), and then she gets dumped for the maniac that tears around the ring and can't chill for the exam.


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## Settican (Apr 5, 2008)

I was just checking the schedule and I see that there's a class half an hour before the show starts for new handlers - not that I'm a newbie exactly, but it has been 7 years since I've showed a dog in the all breed ring. So I'm assuming this show will be newbie friendly, of course that doesn't give me an excuse to take in an unruly pup. Ecco however seems to be learning that jumping/leash biting is unacceptable, so we'll see how training goes on Saturday before we decide what to do


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I personally do not like conformation only shows because the dogs have to be perfect. They can't have any abrasions or scratches, scars or anything else on them. With hunting, sporting & esp herding dogs & terriers. How is a dpg supposed to do their orginal form of function IMHO.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

dogdragoness said:


> I personally do not like conformation only shows because the dogs have to be perfect. They can't have any abrasions or scratches, scars or anything else on them. With hunting, sporting & esp herding dogs & terriers. How is a dpg supposed to do their orginal form of function IMHO.


Not true at all. Many working and terrier standards specifically mention marks won in function to be perfectly fine. I was at the Toller National recently and there was a special class only for dogs that had field titles, and both the Hunting Dog and Hunting Bitch were well considered for BOB.


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

dogdragoness said:


> I personally do not like conformation only shows because the dogs have to be perfect. They can't have any abrasions or scratches, scars or anything else on them. With hunting, sporting & esp herding dogs & terriers. How is a dpg supposed to do their orginal form of function IMHO.


You misunderstand. It is even in my breed's standard that honorable scars must not be penalized, and the Flatcoat breed standard is filled with references to function. You can read it here: http://fcrsainc.org/breedstandard/index.html

I've shown many dogs with signs of their working careers...small white marks on a black face (from scratches), scars, a bit of a ragged coat from burrs, etc. We have even finished a dog that had an injury to her eye, causing it to recess into her skull and appear smaller than the other. She was exceptionally well-built and sound-moving and earned her Championship in 8 shows.

No dog is perfect. Not one. Once there is a perfect one, we are all out of a hobby because our quest is over.

Hey Raegan, did you know that the Flatcoat national will be in Oconomowoc in June in 2012?? I am the conformation chair--you should come and watch!!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

There are GSD champions that are missing parts of ears due to both work or a fight with a kennel mate. They are not penalized (clearly, as they're champions).


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

wabanafcr said:


> Hey Raegan, did you know that the Flatcoat national will be in Oconomowoc in June in 2012?? I am the conformation chair--you should come and watch!!


If I am still in Wisconsin I definitely will!!! If I could spend my life going to Nationals I totally would. Utterly fascinating.


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

RaeganW said:


> If I am still in Wisconsin I definitely will!!! If I could spend my life going to Nationals I totally would. Utterly fascinating.


You would really enjoy the field events. It is so cool to see the dogs go from show ring to field or vice-versa!!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

dogdragoness said:


> I personally do not like conformation only shows because the dogs have to be perfect. They can't have any abrasions or scratches, scars or anything else on them. With hunting, sporting & esp herding dogs & terriers. How is a dpg supposed to do their orginal form of function IMHO.


The Australian Shepherd standard states the Scars and Broken or missing teeth as a result of working should not be penalized.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

So wait...you can't show a dog with scars if its not from working?

I ask because Porter has small scars on his legs and face from playing with the cats and i'm sure my next dog (which i want to show) will have the same.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Sure you can. People don't know what the scars are from.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

wabanafcr said:


> You would really enjoy the field events. It is so cool to see the dogs go from show ring to field or vice-versa!!


That's one of my favorite things, that the dogs just do it. Field to ring, ring to field, no big deal, it's just another game. From what I've read and the limited dogs I've met, the Flat Coat temperament is right up my alley. They're just the wrong shape for where my interest lies right now. Which is why I went for the little red edition of retriever.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

I showed Manero with a scar once. Actually, I did disguise it, because it was right on the top of his nose. But it came from a vicious attack squirrel who SCRATCHED him! :lol

The only reason I covered it is because I was showing to all-breed judges, and they often do not understand. As it turned out, I don't think these individual judges would have minded, but I did not know that at the time. A breeder-judge probably would have asked me about it, and laughed at the reply! But given the competition, Manero was clearly the best Borzoi in the ring that weekend, and took BOB both days, AND finished his CH.

But in some sighthounds, the skin is rather thin. Thin-skinned sighthounds can tear very easily, thus scars should not be penalized. If they were, most Whippets and Greyhounds would not be able to compete. It's nearly impossible to keep them in good shape to show without getting a few scars!


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## Settican (Apr 5, 2008)

Well, just in case anyone's curious, Ecco and I went to the show today  We had a great time, she was a little bit distracted in the ring at first, but she settled down nicely and let the judge check her teeth and feel her over with no problems - we had a very nice judge. She didn't place anywhere, I wasn't expecting much as she was up against 2 puppies from German Showlines, but she had her first show experience and it was a good one, so that's all that matters


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

dogdragoness said:


> I personally do not like conformation only shows because the dogs have to be perfect. They can't have any abrasions or scratches, scars or anything else on them. With hunting, sporting & esp herding dogs & terriers. How is a dpg supposed to do their orginal form of function IMHO.


You need to do some research. Most of the working breeds, herding breeds, terriers, sporting breeds, etc are allowed to carry battle scars in the ring. And if they are a quality dog, they finish. I competed against an ACD that finished with one ear.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Settican said:


> Well, just in case anyone's curious, Ecco and I went to the show today  We had a great time, she was a little bit distracted in the ring at first, but she settled down nicely and let the judge check her teeth and feel her over with no problems - we had a very nice judge. She didn't place anywhere, I wasn't expecting much as she was up against 2 puppies from German Showlines, but she had her first show experience and it was a good one, so that's all that matters


I'm glad the two of you had a good experience!


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