# Acana or Orijen



## dogloverforlife (Feb 23, 2013)

My friend switched her dogs from PP SSS to Orijen 6 fish. They are all doing wonderful on this food and she feeds about half the amount of what she was on the PP. I feed Fromm and love it, but want to rotate.
I have read the scary posts from A member on another board about Champion foods.
However I have read more good than bad. 
Have they had a recall?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I have only heard good things about Champion and can't find anything on Google about recalls in the past few years. I fed Orijen for a while and really liked it and I plan to include it on my regular rotation (currently feeding Nature's Variety Instinct, and have fed Fromm as well).


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## domika (Jul 1, 2012)

I would start with Acana and see how they do on that. I think Orijen is too high protein for most dogs unless they are extremely active. If they do well on the Acana you could move up to Orijen from there. I feed Acana right now and I think it is a great food.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

I feed both my cat and dog on champion and have fed previous dogs with champion and the only bad result was one or two dogs having soft stool with Orijen but done well on Acana. I personally love the stuff.

Cat's on Orijen 
and Manna is on both (we rotate for flavor)


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

domika said:


> I would start with Acana and see how they do on that. I think Orijen is too high protein for most dogs unless they are extremely active. If they do well on the Acana you could move up to Orijen from there. I feed Acana right now and I think it is a great food.


I don't understand this - I've always fed my fosters (none of them were crazy high energy or working dogs by any means) Orijen, and they've never had problems with the protein level? I also feed raw, which I would imagine is high protein as well to my pom and have never had any issues? @[email protected]




Aaaat any rate, depending on what you are feeding right now, I do agree on switching to Acana GF (Regionals) first, and then switching to Orijen to avoid tummy upset. You really really have to feed very little of Orijen - it's very concentrated! So just keep that in mind


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

My dog did not do well on Orijen. Some dogs just do not process such a rich food well, as every dog is different. 

We rotate with Fromm grain-free and Acana grain-free, and she loves Acana. She is doing excellent on it and I would highly recommend it. I have never heard anything bad about Champion foods nor have I seen any recent recalls. 

Their facility had a kitchen fire (early this year I believe?), so the foods were harder to find for a little while since production slowed. But they have been up and running again now for some time.


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## domika (Jul 1, 2012)

taquitos said:


> I don't understand this - I've always fed my fosters (none of them were crazy high energy or working dogs by any means) Orijen, and they've never had problems with the protein level? I also feed raw, which I would imagine is high protein as well to my pom and have never had any issues? @[email protected]
> 
> I should have said that most dogs I have seen on Orijen that weren't high energy/working dogs. It is just my opinion I'm not saying it's bad or THE way to do it, just my input. Sorry for the confusion!


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

taquitos said:


> I don't understand this - I've always fed my fosters (none of them were crazy high energy or working dogs by any means) Orijen, and they've never had problems with the protein level? I also feed raw, which I would imagine is high protein as well to my pom and have never had any issues? @[email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I start everone off on Orijen as well, including relatives dogs and that's alot of dogs. out of ~20 or so dogs that were started on Orijen only 1 or 2 had to be moved to Acana due to loose or soft stool.

The only reason I switch Manna around is because it's a bit expensive and harder to get here. 



domika said:


> taquitos said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand this - I've always fed my fosters (none of them were crazy high energy or working dogs by any means) Orijen, and they've never had problems with the protein level? I also feed raw, which I would imagine is high protein as well to my pom and have never had any issues? @[email protected]
> ...


I get what your saying, though I doubt my mothers senior designer and my Newfie are anywhere near high energy. Other than 1 sled team of 8 dogs which were high energy, the rest were typical family dogs or couch potatoes.
Different experiences I suppose


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

I feed acana and Levi loves it and is doing great on it. One thing to keep in mind with orijen being so high in protein is that the more protein, the more ash. The more ash, the harder the kidneys need to work.


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## dogloverforlife (Feb 23, 2013)

I have read, after searching Acana on some other forums, that Champion does not have very good customer service. Anyone have issues with that?


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

dogloverforlife said:


> I have read, after searching Acana on some other forums, that Champion does not have very good customer service. Anyone have issues with that?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I've called them and emailed with no problem over the years. They always got back to me within a decent time frame.

emails usually 48 hours and phone calls on hold for less than 20 minutes.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

As far as I can find, there have been 3 Champion recalls:

1. In July 2003 there was a recall due to an cow infected with pneumonia (and later BSE) getting into their supply. This was a few weeks after BSE was first discovered in a single cow in Alberta, in the same part of the province where Champion is located.

2. Salmon-formulas were recalled in 2008 due to large pieces of salmon bone that was cutting humans, and apparently injuring pets.

3. In Late 2008, Champion had a voluntary recall of food that was shipped to Australia due to the way Australian customs handled the food. If I recall correctly, the issue was that the food was irradiated with gamma-radiation as part of a standard import procedure which caused a chemical change in the food (or you know, irradiated it), and was linked to a severe neurological disorder in cats. There is more issue on it here, although the website (in my admittedly biased opinion) seems very much like a witch hunt. It does give a basic outline of what happened, in among the slamming of the pet food company.... because it was their fault that they didn't know the food would be gamma irradiated, and that the gamma irradiation would lead to health issues.... even though the Australian government has since banned irradiation of cat food. :doh:


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I prefer Acana for most pet dogs.

Jackson's always done very well on Acana.

I've read a lot of the same issues as you, and was very irritated with them but with that said, I can't deny that it's always what my dog has done best on.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

taquitos said:


> I don't understand this - I've always fed my fosters (none of them were crazy high energy or working dogs by any means) Orijen, and they've never had problems with the protein level? I also feed raw, which I would imagine is high protein as well to my pom and have never had any issues? @[email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Raw is not highly concentrated in protein like Orijen is. Raw has plenty of water weight included, which keeps the actual protein content down. 



I prefer Acana over Orijen for a few reasons:

1) I don't think all that protein is necessary for the average dog. Just seems like a waste of money to be paying for that bag when the average dog doesn't *need* all of it.

2) I many more customers whose dogs do well on Acana vs do well on Orijen. Most people I meet that have fed Orijen haven't had great success with it. I think it's just too rich for a lot of dogs. 



I'm on the fence with Champion. There are some other companies I prefer.


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## dogloverforlife (Feb 23, 2013)

meggels said:


> I'm on the fence with Champion. There are some other companies I prefer.


 Do you like Petcurean?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

If the dog doesn't take in water when kibble is the diet he will be in serious trouble, raw fed dogs likely don't drink as much water to maintain good hydration either. You must compare dry weights of the different types of food.

If Max ate 600 calories of Orijen he would get something like 57 grams of protein, just about what he gets in his raw diet. He gets more fat eating raw as he gets very little carbohydrate in a raw diet.

The problem I had feeding a high protein kibble was the amount I had to feed. It didn't seem like enough even giving below the minimum amount for his weight and I overfed Max. Feeding through 2 large bags he never stopped having annoyingly soft stool so I gave up on it. All I needed to do was feed even less but I didn't know that at the time.

You cannot get any more average than Max. He gets an hour walk and a couple play sessions a day and spends a lot of time snoozing in the sun and on various dog beds and the sofa. His favorite time of day is barking at the mailman. On 50-60 grams of protein a day he gained 15% of his previous healthy weight in muscle and can now jump off his rear which was not something he could do on 22% protein kibble with a daily intake of about 35 grams of protein. Why would I want a weak dog that cannot jump up on the sofa or one that cannot go for a long walk? I don't know if he would be calmer on kibble with its necessary carbohydrates but a high protein and fat raw diet makes him calmer, not more excitable. Sassy had good muscle mass and was a good athlete on that same low protein kibble, would have been interesting to see just how much more muscle she could have developed. Strong muscle supports the skeleton and keeps things lined up so joint wear should be lessened. Strong muscle helps prevent injury. 

Most of the high protein kibbles are complicated formulas with loads of unnecessary ingredients. I suspect over feeding and those overcomplicated ingredient lists cause a lot of trouble.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

I think Acana and Orijens formulas are good looking at them but I just hate how there's so many different proteins in each that they might as well all be the same food.... I don't like fish in anything. It just seems so un natural to me. Wolves don't eat fish and neither do wild cats. I don't know who came up with we should feed our pets fish but I'm not a fan.... It's to high in magnesium and phosphorus.... You gotta worry about fish mercury toxins etc blah blah blah.... No thank you lol..... People get good results with Champion Foods it seems like but I just think its a lot of fake glitz and glamour for the HUGE price tag.... Just my two cents :/

As far as protein and ash.... There's very few companies who use low ash proteins. Annamaet, Dr Tims, and Fromm being three I know of... I prefer Dr Tims. I've been reading a lot about it lately. Half the price of Orijen but over 90 percent of the protein comes from just the meat and not veggies? Doesn't Orijens bag say 80?? Dr Tims is ten percent more?? I'd say that's a pretty big step up. Formula on Dr Tims doesn't seem to good lookin at it BUT the way you know he puts things together makes it good... People I've been reading that feed it swear by it completely.... One even said they used to feed Orijen and they feed less of Dr Tims and coats are better...... I don't know. Maybe something for you to look at!! Can't beat the price! Expensive isn't always better.... 




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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

dogloverforlife said:


> Do you like Petcurean?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Yes, I do. I don't feed it right now simply because it's not in my budget, but I really like the company and have had good success in the past with the formulas.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Zilla said:


> I think Acana and Orijens formulas are good looking at them but I just hate how there's so many different proteins in each that they might as well all be the same food.... I don't like fish in anything. It just seems so un natural to me. Wolves don't eat fish and neither do wild cats. I don't know who came up with we should feed our pets fish but I'm not a fan.... It's to high in magnesium and phosphorus.... You gotta worry about fish mercury toxins etc blah blah blah.... No thank you lol..... People get good results with Champion Foods it seems like but I just think its a lot of fake glitz and glamour for the HUGE price tag.... Just my two cents :/
> 
> As far as protein and ash.... There's very few companies who use low ash proteins. Annamaet, Dr Tims, and Fromm being three I know of... I prefer Dr Tims. I've been reading a lot about it lately. Half the price of Orijen but over 90 percent of the protein comes from just the meat and not veggies? Doesn't Orijens bag say 80?? Dr Tims is ten percent more?? I'd say that's a pretty big step up. Formula on Dr Tims doesn't seem to good lookin at it BUT the way you know he puts things together makes it good... People I've been reading that feed it swear by it completely.... One even said they used to feed Orijen and they feed less of Dr Tims and coats are better...... I don't know. Maybe something for you to look at!! Can't beat the price! Expensive isn't always better....
> 
> ...


Wolves and cats don't eat kibble in the wild either lol. Kibble itself is pretty unnatural.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the clarifications on protein levels and dry VS raw. Learned something new 

But yeah, usually I start my fosters on Orijen, if they don't do well then I will switch to Acana (I get both of them free because I work at a pet boutique).

I like Petcurean for Go! but I am not a fan of Now


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Zilla said:


> I prefer Dr Tims. I've been reading a lot about it lately. Half the price of Orijen but over 90 percent of the protein comes from just the meat and not veggies? Doesn't Orijens bag say 80?? Dr Tims is ten percent more?? I'd say that's a pretty big step up.


I've been seeing this 90% trumpeted around a lot here lately and I just had to know how it compared. Since this post is about Champion I wrote to them to find out. Per company sources, "a minimal of *98%* of the crude protein content of our foods comes from animal protein sources." 

They went on to _explain_ that an easy way to determine if a large part of protein content is contributed by plant sources is to read the ingredient list for supplemented amino acids. According to them, since plants are incomplete protein sources manufacturers that rely heavily on them also need to supplement crucial amino acids that they lack. 

I'm not convinced of this last point. It could easily be argued that companies supplement because the _cooking_ involved in making kibble destroys amino acids and they need to be added back, BUT I still think it could be info to keep in mind when shopping around.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

meggels said:


> Wolves and cats don't eat kibble in the wild either lol. Kibble itself is pretty unnatural.


Well duh but fish is even more un natural lol Just my pet peeve I guess 


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Zilla said:


> Well duh but fish is even more un natural lol Just my pet peeve I guess
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Don't be so sure about that, I've seen plenty of strays in NFLD that do go fishing for their meal, and prefer it over the garbage tins, restaurant scraps, and kibble.

Manna even tried it in my dads koi pond.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Zilla said:


> Well duh but fish is even more un natural lol Just my pet peeve I guess


Actually a study conducted in 2008 by the University of Victoria clearly demonstrated that when salmon is available wild wolves prefer it over any other game. This preference is entirely independent of availability of other prey.

Also, many wolves in Alaska, much like grizzlies, rely heavily on salmon to _fatten up_ for the upcoming winters. The Alaska Department of Fish and Game has a very interesting read about this on their website.

As far as cats eating fish, have you never heard of the Fishing Cat?


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Well I'm a cat person that's part of the reason I don't like fish.... How's Orijens ash?? 


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Zilla said:


> I don't like fish in anything. It just seems so un natural to me. Wolves don't eat fish and neither do wild cats.


Wolves don't regularly eat fish in the wild, but some species of wild cat absolutely do... like, you know, fishing cats. Clouded leopards have also been known to catch and eat fish as have a variety of lynx species. Oh yeah, and tigers... who are also very good swimmers.

I do agree with the large number of protein sources, however, only because if one of them causes issues, it is a TON of work to figure out which one it is. But, Snowball absolutely LOVES salmon - it is probably his single favorite food. He will sometimes choose it over red meat, when both are offered. He will actually refuse kibble made primarily with chicken and lamb, but I have yet to see him turn up his nose at his salmon-based kibble.

ETA: Just curious... what does being a cat person have to do with not liking fish?


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> Wolves don't regularly eat fish in the wild...


The thing is many of them do. Like I state above when its available salmon is a food preference. Here's a link for the AK info I was talking about:

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=86


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Domesticated cats are a descended from a desert cat..... Fish is un natural to them... So as you can see below here there's to many reasons to not feed fish to cats.... Im a firm believer of the possible asthma thing. I used feed a fish based kibble and sometimes tuna... My cat Zilla started having these weird coughing episodes and after I learned everything I know now I stopped feeding fish and I swear he's never had a coughing episode again.... It's the weirdest thing.... 

Written by Dr Lisa Pierson of catinfo.org:

Fish - I do not feed fish to cats for the following reasons:

high allergy potential (manifested as skin allergies or inflammatory bowel disease, and possibly asthma)

toxin/mercury contamination

PBDEs (fire retardant chemicals) - PBDEs are potent thyroid disruptors

often high in phosphorus and magnesium (contributes to urinary blockages)

highly addictive - the cat will not eat anything else once it's had fish to many times. 




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## dogloverforlife (Feb 23, 2013)

Zilla said:


> Well I'm a cat person that's part of the reason I don't like fish.... How's Orijens ash??
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


8% on the regular adult formula.

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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Emmett said:


> The thing is many of them do. Like I state above when its available salmon is a food preference. Here's a link for the AK info I was talking about:
> 
> http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=86


Yeah, I posted that before I read your replies, heh. (I'm on holiday, so mostly posting directly from e-mail digests). Really interesting stuff!


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## Teds-slave (Nov 14, 2012)

I've ordered a bag of acana for Ted I'm excited to try it. I was reluctant at first because its so expensive, but as e only small he won't he much. I've ordered chicken and Burbank potato


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

taquitos said:


> I like Petcurean for Go! but I am not a fan of Now


Just curious as to why you don't like Now? When I have to feed kibble, Now is one of my go-to's for Marley, as the phosphorous content is relatively low for her (she has to use the senior formula, though), there are no grains, and it has an okay amount of protein for her (I would prefer something higher, but when you need low phosphorous, beggars can't be choosers, lol). Just wondering if there is something about Now that I don't know about?


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

pawsaddict said:


> Just curious as to why you don't like Now? When I have to feed kibble, Now is one of my go-to's for Marley, as the phosphorous content is relatively low for her (she has to use the senior formula, though), there are no grains, and it has an okay amount of protein for her (I would prefer something higher, but when you need low phosphorous, beggars can't be choosers, lol). Just wondering if there is something about Now that I don't know about?


I just feel like it's more potato than anything, and as a raw feeder, if I would go with any dry food, I would go with one with the most amount of meat. When Petcurean makes Go!, which, imo, is a better food, for not much more in terms of price, I would just go with the Go! not the Now. There's definitely nothing wrong with it, and if your dogs do well on it, that's great. I just prefer higher animal protein foods


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## curt3 (Jun 27, 2013)

I have my dog on Orijen and she is not super active and does very well on it. I have also contacted champion on occasion when I had questions and they always respond to me within 24 hours. Here's an article on orijen that may help you decide.
http://www.squidoo.com/orijen-review


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