# How much protein is "too" much?



## mattverde (Aug 8, 2007)

I am switching my 1 year old Puggle to an adult food and am at a loss of which one. Living in a big city, I have access to most the foods on the list, but am wondering about the amounts of protein. It looks like EVO has almost twice as some quality adult foods--but about 10% than some other premiums. Is there any danger in giving a dog too much protein, or will it just show itself in gas and messy stools? I have no problem giving him the best, but am just a bit confused after reading dozens of reviews and forums.

Top contenders:

EVO small bites
Wellness Core

Thanks!


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## Gizm0 (Mar 13, 2008)

A lot of protein is not good for large breed dogs as it will make them grow too fast... its okay when they get a little older. I would think a boxer would be fine with the amount of protein Evo has.

I also read that it also depends on the source of the protein itself that count's. If its protein from grains then its not very good according to what I read here.

I feed my Lhasa Apso and Pug Oriijen (45% Protein) and they do great on it. They eat less and have more solid and less frequent stools.


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## RRM_Mom08 (May 5, 2008)

I would say with a puggle you would be OK the larger/giant breeds need to watch there protien and mineral intakes.Both dog foods are good I actually got the small bags of both and the Orijen to try and see what my dogs like(well actually I purchased every food in the 6 star cat to try ..LOL)


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## mattverde (Aug 8, 2007)

Well I don't think flavor will be an issue with him. He eats rubber, his beds, etc.
He goes nuts for any food or treats.

I take it a good approach is to add some water to the high protein kibble so that he's getting enough water? Does that sound right?

It would be his one and only source of food (ie. won't be mixing in canned).


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## Gizm0 (Mar 13, 2008)

mattverde said:


> I take it a good approach is to add some water to the high protein kibble so that he's getting enough water? Does that sound right?


Yep I do this too to make sure they get enough water. Since they are eating quite a bit of protein its a good idea to always leave some fresh water out for them to drink.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

I would go with either of them.  Both are super foods. I don't think you need to worry too much about the protein issue with your 1 year old. You might actually want to pick a few formulas to choose from - Here's why. 

Changing Foods


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## mattverde (Aug 8, 2007)

Great article. Thanks!


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## JayBarnes (Jan 8, 2008)

Great info. I've been wondering the same thing. As of now my Husky isn't fully grown yet, I dont guess even though he's at 65 lbs. He's only 8 months or so I'm going to give him a little while longer before I go grain free and a higher protein amount.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

My dogs love the EVO small bites. They're small and doing really well on it. (Well, the one that is 'officially' on EVO. The others try to steal when they can.)


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## PeppersPop (Apr 13, 2008)

Unless you have some specific reason to think your dog is dehydrated, I would avoid mixing water in with his food. Dry dog food is supposed to help clean teeth by scraping plaque/tartar off as the dog eats.

If you don't think your dog is getting enough water, I would suggesting giving him ice cubes or popsicles. I make very diluted broth and free it into an ice cube tray and a popsicle maker and when Pepper is having diarrhea (or just for a treat) I give him an ice cube or two.

Dogs should pretty much regulate themselves as far as water/fluid intake. If you don't think your dog is getting enough fluids, talk to your vet as there may be some type of problem going on.

Good luck! 




mattverde said:


> Well I don't think flavor will be an issue with him. He eats rubber, his beds, etc.
> He goes nuts for any food or treats.
> 
> I take it a good approach is to add some water to the high protein kibble so that he's getting enough water? Does that sound right?
> ...


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

PeppersPop said:


> Unless you have some specific reason to think your dog is dehydrated, I would avoid mixing water in with his food. Dry dog food is supposed to help clean teeth by scraping plaque/tartar off as the dog eats.
> 
> If you don't think your dog is getting enough water, I would suggesting giving him ice cubes or popsicles. I make very diluted broth and free it into an ice cube tray and a popsicle maker and when Pepper is having diarrhea (or just for a treat) I give him an ice cube or two.
> 
> ...


Dogs that are fed kibble _are_ in a constant state of dehydration.


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## PeppersPop (Apr 13, 2008)

I have never heard this before and honestly I'm a little bit skeptical. Are you saying that kibble causes dehydration? Or are you saying that dogs who don't drink enough and eat kibble are dehydrated? Does mixing water into kibble remedy the problem? What's the difference between mixing water into kibble and eating dry kibble then drinking the same amount of water afterwards? 

Could you please post a link to a website/article/study that provides information about this? I would especially appreciate some kind of empirical study that shows that kibble eating dogs are constantly dehydrated.

Obviously, I want to do the best for my dog, so any info you have is appreciated.



BoxMeIn21 said:


> Dogs that are fed kibble _are_ in a constant state of dehydration.


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## HuskyLuv (May 16, 2008)

Our 2 year old Husky has been on EVO for about 8 months now and we're very happy with it. I have read in the past that EVO's high protein content causes dogs to drink more (I can't remember where I read it though). After reading that, I paid closer attention to our husky's drinking habits and I don't see any merit to the claim. He drinks the same amount as when he was previously on Natural Balance. I will note that I feed a mix of EVO dry with Natural Balance wet, and he always takes a drink right after he finishes eating.

My in-laws also feed their two Chihuahuas EVO after switching from Eukanuba. Since they switched the Chihuahuas, their stools have improved and they do well on it. 

I think your pug should do well on EVO if you find that he/she can tolerate it. I have found the perfect balance for our husky through trial and error. Too much or too little causes loose stools for our boy, but at just under 2 cups for my 52lb husky he maintains a healthy, muscular, lean build and beautiful shiny coat.

Another note, I had heard for years that dry kibble was supposed to help keep dogs' teeth clean. Again, (I'm not able to find where I read this) I read somewhere within the past year that dry kibble really doesn't do hardly anything for helping clean their teeth even though it's been claimed to do so for years. Either way, I rely on a toothbrush and doggie toothpaste for keeping our little one's teeth clean and healthy.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Dogs will generally drink more on dry kibble than when fed wet food or a raw diet. My raw fed dogs rarely drink much unless it's really hot outside. And it takes an incredible amount of water for the intestines to process dry food, the bacteria require a really moise environment to do their work, so the dog then becomes further dehydrated.

HuskyLuv is correct. Dry food does almost zippo for dental plaque. The crunching helps a bit, if your dog chews. However, more important is the amount of carbohydrates ina diet. Carbs break down into simple sugars which then feed the bacteria that form plaque. Even worse than the dental plaque for some dogs is that those simple sugars are converted to storage as body fat. So when you look at a bag of food and it says 15% fat, 25% protein...that means it is also 60% carbs...sugar.


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## RRM_Mom08 (May 5, 2008)

I have to agree with the opinions that dogs fed a kibble diet require more water.From switching our puppies over to a bland protein rice vegetables diet cooked in water they require much less water where as before on a kibble only diet they were dieing of thirst all the time.also my adults that are currently on a kibble/can food diet do drink less when there is kibble mixed in with there can food.On straight kibble they drink alot of water.

I believe this has to do with the fact that kibble doesn't have any water in it and is not as easily digestable as the homemade or raw diet.I prefer to feed them a home cooked diet but with 6 dogs it can be overwhelming so we do have high quality kibble too.


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## PeppersPop (Apr 13, 2008)

This ABSOLUTELY has to do with the amount of moisture in food. Dogs who eat kibble get less water from their food, thus they drink more. Dogs who eat wet food, get more water from their food, thus they drink less.

But unless you are restricting water intake, which in my opinion should not be done (except in very specific circumstances like vomiting but a vomiting dog shouldn't be eating kibble either), most healthy dogs will drink enough to be adequately hydrated.

Requiring more water is NOT the same thing as dehydration. When dogs don't get enough water through their food, they drink to make up for it. 

As far as dry food and teeth go, my understand is that dry food is somewhat helpful with tartar/plaque because it scrapes against the teeth. But the emphasis is on helpful... dogs that don't chew their kibble probably aren't going to get much benefit. I brush my dog's teeth every night regardless of what he eats because a toothbrush/toothpaste is much cheaper than having to deal with teeth related health problems.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not advocating for kibble. My understanding of dog nutrition is that dogs are carnivores and aren't able to digest grain/carbohydrates very easily. Wet foods, as a group, seem to match up more with what a dog would eat "normally" than kibble, as a group. You gotta go with what makes sense for you and your dogs. 



RRM_Mom08 said:


> I have to agree with the opinions that dogs fed a kibble diet require more water.From switching our puppies over to a bland protein rice vegetables diet cooked in water they require much less water where as before on a kibble only diet they were dieing of thirst all the time.also my adults that are currently on a kibble/can food diet do drink less when there is kibble mixed in with there can food.On straight kibble they drink alot of water.
> 
> I believe this has to do with the fact that kibble doesn't have any water in it and is not as easily digestable as the homemade or raw diet.I prefer to feed them a home cooked diet but with 6 dogs it can be overwhelming so we do have high quality kibble too.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

On a random but related note....cats who are fed only/mostly dry food almost always have kidney disease after a certain age. It's hard to make a cat drink more water. I think dogs do a decent jobs of keeping themselves hydrated most of the time. But the cat thing does indicate that dry food is more conducive to dehydration than a raw or canned diet.


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## Wilbur (Dec 11, 2007)

Answer #1 about protein,,,,,,,,,,, There are educated opinions saying that higher protein, 40% or so, is fine,,, and some educated opinions say that it is too high a percentage...
To be on the safe side, when feeding kibble, which is about 1/3 of my dog's meals, I mix 1/2 the amount with California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato ( 21% protein ) and 1/2 of the amount is Orijen Adult ( 42 % protein ). This way I am getting the goodness of Orijen and not as high a TOTAL protein mixture....

Answer # 2,,,,,,,,,Obviously dogs that eat dry kibble need water from another source to keep hydrated...I feed the kibble dry, and I do believe that it helps keep the teeth clean...After my dog finishes his dry kibble with no water added, I put 5 or 6 additional kibble in his bowl with 1 cup of water and he drinks the water mixed with the 5 to 6 kibble pieces,,,that helps keep him hydrated along with plenty of fresh water during the day...

Good luck to all


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## mattverde (Aug 8, 2007)

Wow, I haven't checked here in awhile and hadn't realized the debate I began.

My remark about adding water to the high protein kibble, was because I read to do it somewhere. I think it had something to do with the kidneys needing sufficient water to filter out the protein, etc. I'm sure it was more of a worst-case kind of thing.

I also think if your dog chews bones a lot, that is doing more for his dental hygiene than the food.

I chose Wellness Core as the first, non-puppy food to start my 1 year Puggle on. He gets his first helping tonight.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Even for a human, if you're on a high protein diet, you have to make sure you are hydrated because high protein dehydrates you and you need the water to help your kidneys deal with the protein.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Protein, per se, does not cause excess water to be eliminated through the kidneys. However, it does cause the kidneys a bit of extra work to process. So drinking more fluids would be helpful. Drinking more fluids would dilute the protein in the blood, making it easier for the kidneys to process the protein present.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

I think the "too much protein" thing is pet feed manufacturer propaganda, to make people think they need to feed their dogs more carbohydrate, which has higher profit margins than quality protein and fat sources. A diet high in carbohydrate will destroy your pet's kidneys down the line due to diabetes, if they don't die from cancer or heart disease first (also caused by high-carb diets).


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