# New German Shepherd Questions for you dogaholics!



## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

Howdy! I just brought me home a great little GS female puppy. 4 months old, black & brown (FYI: I named her Chewy since she loves chewing on my fist and looks like a mini-Chewbacca!) Anyway, I'm sure these questions have already been asked and answered a million times but I'm a lazy sloth and would love a Plain and Simple answer for these questions/scenarios. I need input from veteran dog-owners who KNOW HOW TO RAISE AN INDOOR DOG!Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
1. I leave for work at 9:00 in the morning, get home at 9:00 at night.
2. I don't have a crate, just a split-bathroom (one room for the tub/sinks, one room for the bowl. (only room in house not carpeted)
3. I have a seperate garage
4. I sleep from about 2:00am to 8:30am
5. I take her out to do her duty and run around for about 20 minutes before work. After work, I take her back out for an hour or so.

There's the current situation, now for the questions:

1. When should I feed & water her?
2. How much? 
3. When is it alright to let her roam around the living room, other rooms
4. What is an x-pen?
5. If I leave her in the garage while I'm gone, she has about 1000 sq. ft. to roam around in, but she'll probably do her duty on the floor, which might send mixed signals (indoors vs. outdoor doodie/wee-wee)....what should I do abotu the time I'm gone? I can't leave her penned up in the bathroom all that time so...
6. what's the best place to leave her during the day while I'm gone so she'll know not do do her duty inside, but yet have plenty of freedom without being all couped up?

Sorry for the complexity, I'd just like some input from some veteran dog-owners who know how to raise an indoor dog! THANKS!


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Feeding - it is often recommended to feed young puppies about three times a day. Don't know how well this works for you, as you're gone for half the day. Not really sure how much.

It is alright to let her roam when you are confident that she knows where she is supposed to go to the bathroom. Also when you know that she isn't going to chew, eat things, etc

An X-Pen is kind of like a playpen for dogs. They're cheap and sometimes used to confine dogs when crates are not an option.







Those are rabbits but you get the idea. lol.

Honestly, you're not home ALOT to be housetraining a 4 month old puppy. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's going to take a lot longer. I would probably put down wee-wee pads and train her that way for now. If you have a laundry room or large bathroom, those are usually safe places to leave a puppy.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

12 hours is a very long time to leave a puppy, even some adult dogs can't hold it for that long. Any way you can get someone to come in during the day for a potty break? 

If you leave her in the garage you'll condition her to potty on concrete floors. I did that with Penny and, even now, she still poops on concrete floors. So if you don't want that, another solution would be best.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Yes, I would be interested in the garage program as with your hours it appears to be the best solution. I would also advice crate work in home as this is a fine weapon to have in your arsenal. Depending on size of garage actually a portable kennel run could be setup. You would want to be careful as to excessive heat in garage in summer. I don't worry as much about cold as heat. Feeding twice a day will work as a lot of the dog foods are pretty high powered. Now is this advice the ideal setup for pup? No but it is functional and will work, just throwing options out there for you to think about and confuse you.

Willowy 
is correct about the concrete but it beats the in home dumps and I am not a fan of the pads solutions.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

For food, follow the recommendations on the bag and keep an eye on her weight. If she looks chubby, cut back slightly, if she looks really thing, increase it a bit. Its ok for her to be a little on the thin side though. For water, while you are home she should have it available at all times. If you are going to leave her for 12 hours with no one to stop by then she should have it then too, and you could try to train her to puppy pads or something. If you can have someone stop by then I would take the water up about 20 minutes before you leave and then they can let her have some water when they stop to let her out. I would also pick it up about 20 minutes before bed.

I would hire a dog walker to come and let her out probably twice while you are gone until she is a bit older. Then drop it down to one visit while you are gone. A 4 month old puppy can really only hold it for maybe 4 hours. Usually the visit will also include a walk which would be nice for her. Once she is 6 or 7 months old you could probably drop it down to one visit halfway through the day as she would be able to hold it longer. 12 hours would be hard for even an adult dog to make it through the day so I would keep the single visit while you have such a long shift. 

If you are able to hire a dogwalker to come by then the safest place for her would be a crate and it would also help with the potty training. I honestly wouldn't leave a dog loose in the house until at least 2 years old, but all dogs are different and some might be more trustworthy earlier. 

If you can't have someone stop by to let her out then I would probably teach her to potty on puppy pads and then keep her either in the bathroom or the garage (as long as it doesn't get hot during the day). Or you could try some sort of indoor do potty and put it in the garage. Many basically have fake turf over a tray and the dog goes on that.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Any reason why you can't get a crate? I just got my own German shepherd puppy, and he is already potty trained, thanks to the wonders of a crate! 

But if you can't get a crate, I second the suggestion for a pee pad.

Now, why haven't we seen pictures of your new pup?


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## rutylr (Apr 26, 2009)

That is along time to be alone for a baby.
With so little time, do you plan on taking the puppy to puppy class so it can learn to play with other dogs.
Having her around just you could make her a dog aggressive adult.


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks a BUNCH guys! THat helps me out a good chunk. For right nor, my wife is laid-off at work, so she can take care of taking Chewy out for walks, play-time, etc. for the time being, but that won't always be the case. The probable arrangement will be me and her both leaving around 9:00am, with her coming home around 6:00. That's still a pretty good while to be outside. I had another idea that might work while we're gone. I have a carport beside my garage that just has a boat in it, the other side could be cleared out and I could put in a chain-link setup for her to stay in during the day. That'd give her about 450 sq. ft. of roaming room, plenty of open air, and plenty of shade - and the floor is gravel. It'd be a little messy cleaining it up, but at least she'd know not to crap on a concrete floor.  Would this mess up her indoor-training at all? Right now, she'll wee-wee in her bathroom during the night (about a 5x5 square room - seperate from the tub/sink room section). She just can't hold it for that long. Accoridng to this forum, 4hrs is max time to hold it, so I don't blame her for letting it go. She always holds her duty until we take her out in the morning, which is a good sign, but I want to make sure she doesn't get conditioned improperly to think it's ok to wee-wee inside.  At what age will she be able to hold it all night (I take her out around midnight, and my wife takes her out in the morning 6-7am) ? The puppy pad sounds like good damage, stench control, but I agree that it might make the dog think its okay to wet the great indoors instead of holding it and whining to go outside. I knew a guy once that had a full-grown male GS that would go to the back door and whine for a couple minutes, letting the guy know he wanted to go out and do his stuff. That's what I want.  REALLY, what I eventaully would like is to be able to let her roam around INSIDE the house while we're gone, but I agree she might not be able to hold it that long. ONCE MORE OPTION: I could leave her in the garage (it's vented good enough and partially in the shade) and use a puppy pad - would this be the equivelant of training a cat to go in a litter box? If that's the case, then I'd rather leave her in the garage during the day. All the chewables, chemicals, etc. are in cabinets, she'd have plenty of room to move around, and she wouldn't stink up the floor if she kne to use the pad. How long will a dog use a pad though? As for the picture, I'm charging my camera right now guys! THANKS AGAIN and SORRY for loading you up with questions, I just want to make sure I don't condition this dog to do its duty in the wrong places. As far as aggression, I'll admit that this may be an issue. BUT, to tell you the truth, I'm mainly getting this dog for my wife while I'm at work - for protection. A couple weeks ago a guy tried to break in through the kitchen window at 3:30 AM! I grabbed my shotgun and blew a hole through the window, they caugh thim two days later and he's in the slammer. But, the damage is done. My wife just doesn't feel safe alone in the house any more. SO, if CHewy is aggressive towards strangers, then GREAT. We're not training a killer, just a protector. Chewy's mom was like that. As long as the owner was around, she was cool, but don't come knocking if the owner's gone. :


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

If I were you I would get an alarm system and not rely on the dog for "protection." This way when you go places the dog will go with you and you will have a ton of fun. You really do not want an aggressive dog. A dog that alert barks would be fine but an aggressive dog is a serious liability. 

German Shepherds do not fully mature until about 3 years old. You have a nice slate with which to write on if you choose to take the time to write things well!

In all you have good ideas but I caution against leaving a dog loose in the house during the day, even when the dog is older. A loose dog can get into all kinds of things, some of which may be deadly. German Shepherds are high drive breeds and if they get bored, they will find something to do. It is unlikely what they find to do will be something you like. My GSD is crated ddays while I am at work. I do not, nore would I, crate a dog for 12 hours. That is IMO too long on a day to day basis even for an adult dog. Mine goes 6:00AM to 4:30PM MAX. I live alone and go to work and I reasearched this a LOT b4 getting a dog. Now you have your wife to let the dog out and walk her but as you note that will change.

I hope you like to walk a LOT. This breed of dog needs lots of ecxercise, and not just letting the dog out in the yard exercise, but directed exercise such as walking. Mine gets walked about 4-5 miles a day total.. PLUS training time. 

As to the long days alone, a good, solid dog kennel as described by WVasko would work (in the garage). I suggest putting pine shavings at one end to encourage the dog to pee/poop in that area. Most dogs do not like to pee/poop on concrete. I would also suggest putting a rubber "cattle mat" under the pine shavings. The chain link keneel in the car port would also work out well. Again.. put a cattle mat down under the kennel so that you can easily clean up. 

Beyond all of this I strongly reommend you go to two obedience classes AT LEAST. The first you can put her in NOW (get her vaccinated and vet checked.. I assume you already have done this). After puppy class, get her through at least Beginners Obedience. This will help socialize your dog and will help you learn how to train her. I would strongly recommend your wife go with you and work with this dog as well. Dogs do not generalize behavior locationally or between people. She may learn to come when called for you but she has to realern if from your wife. Just like location.. she may learn to do things for you at home, but she will need to re-learn those same commands in other places to make her reliable everywhere. 

Again, I must reiterate, you do NOT want a dog that is truly aggressive towards strangers. This is a REAL liability and if the dog should bite any stranger (your neighbor's kid for instance.. or the UPS man) you could end up in a law suit AND your dog woud likely be PTS. 

The German Shepherd dog was really bred originally to tend and herd sheep and other livestock. Protection training came out of that. True protection training is a very specialized discipline and one I would never recommend it as something you "do at home."


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I'm sorry, but as the owner of GSDs....our dogs are not weapons. They are deterrents and nothing more, and withholding IMPORTANT SOCIALIZATION on this breed is irresponsible. No two bones about it.

This breed is NOT supposed to be about aggression! It's about STABILITY! Dogs that are trained (note the word TRAINED) in bite work HAVE to be stable tolerant dogs. Don't make your Shepherd a liability for people.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

One thing I forgot to mention.. Get a Crate and Crate Train your dog. There is a book you can get from www.dogwise.com called "Crate Games" to help you crate train your dog. 

Since you want to train your dog to go OUTSIDE and you know she cannot hold it all night, why not get up in the middle of the night and get her out to go? In anothe 8 weeks she will be able to hold it all night if she is last out at midnight and then out again at 6:00AM. Put her in the crate and she will hold it until she can go out. Just at this stage you have to get up in the middle of the night.. that is what alarm clocks are for (and you thought alarm clocks were so you could get up to go to work.. )

EVERY SINGLE TIME YOUR DOG PEES IN THE HOUSE YOU HAVE MISSED A CHANCE TO TRAIN HER TO PEE OUTSIDE. EVERY TIME SHE PEES IN THE HOUSE, PEEING IN THE HOUSE IS REINFORCED. 

And yeah.. what Xeph said. Absolutely what Xeph said.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

By the way, on this forum, caps doesn't tend to be yelling....it seems to be easier for most of us to use caps to emphasize....we tend to forget about bolding.

Protection training is about one thing and one thing only....obedience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX3DUHBJ1LA&feature=related

People think that protection is all about the bite when it is NOT. It is about obedience and self control of the dog. The judge does not judge how HARD the dog is biting. The only thing the judge actually counts in terms of the actual BITE is the fullness of the grip (comittment of the dog in his defense of his handler). Other than that, the judge is assessing the dog's ability to maintain a clear head and release when told, as well as the dog's ability to maintain self control when in the fuss and the decoy is not being a threat.

Tracking is about obedience and biddability.

Obedience is about obedience and biddability.

Protection is about obedience and biddability.

Get what I'm saying?

A dog like Hawk that is withheld in socialization and "trained" through lack thereof is a detriment to the breed and menace to society. Hawk himself? The epitome of a sound dog.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Oh Xeph.. I remember watching a show on TV a LONG time ago about someone training "attack" dogs and how he left the dog in isolation for months until the dog was litterally a freaking nut job. The dog was originally as sound mentally and physically as any really well bred GSD.. but putting the dog in isolation just destroyed his mind. 

Mind you, he was a "guard" dog and they turne dhim loose to "guard" a warehouse at night when no one was there. Problem was getting him back in his pen in the morning. They litterally had to feed him in his pen and use a guillotine door that cloesd behind him. The dog was never touched by human hands.. He was that crazed. 

It broke my heart to watch that program. I was only about 10 and never had a German Shepherd but I just felt that dog was in mental agony. 

To the OP.. you don't want to wthold socializing your dog to any degree. You have an absolutely wonderful breed of dog. Like I said.. you have this slate you can write anything on. Write it well and you will be amazed. These dogs never cease to amaze me.


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

Well I'll tell you guys what, this dog is already a BRAIN! I left her in the garage today (while me and my wife were gone). I put up all the chewables (forgot about the paper-towel dispenser - that won't happen again - OOPS!) and put all the chemicals in cabinets. I laid some newspapers on the floor (the cow-mat and wood shavings sounds like a good idea, or maybe a puppy-pad?) and she didn't leave a wet spot anywhere! My wife let her out about 6:00 and she went to her favorite spot and took a leak (the dog, not my wife ) and did her duty just like that! You're right, she's not fond of soiling the concrete. As far as socialization goes, the compionship she has right now consists of me, my wife, my Paw and Maw (and in-laws) and two big fat cats. The cats seem to like picking and pawing with her and are otherwise annoyed at her barking and jumping around, but they get along pretty good, which is great since I need my cats to take care of the mice poulation out in the woods! I dig what you guys mean about training an attack dog. I'm not going to raise a dog-of-death, but you will NEVER know how traumatic it is on a woman unless you'd seen my wife that night about to faint when she saw somebody trying to crawl through the kitchen window. I'm fine whether the dog's present or not. But my wife doesn't feel safe alone in the house unless I'm there. Now, if I have a dog that can add some extra muscle while I'm gone, then great. I'm currently installing an alarm sys and camera system, as well as enough outside lights to light up an airport, but having a big, noisy, hairy dog adds a little extra security. I'll have my buddies over every other week or so also (two of them have kids), so the dog won't be isolated from society or be anything like that guilletine-door-dog you mentioned. Anyway, so far Chewy's learned the following commands:
AHHHHTTT!!! (means NO, especially effective when she tries eating the cat food)
GIMME FIVE!!! (yep, she knows all about it!)
GOOD CHEWY!!! (after she does her duty in the right place, comes when we call her, etc.)
ROOOAARRRR!!! (the sound my Maine Coone cat makes when Chewy gets to close to his tail! )
STAY (still working on that one )
C'MAHNN!!! (unless she gets distracted, she comes right over when called - I LOVE this puppy!)
Thanks again for all your help guys. BTW, when talking about the crate, when is she old enough to let out of the crate at night? She'll be restricted to about 4 rooms (chewable-free) in the house, but she'll be free to roam and patrol. What's your advice? THANKS AGAIN!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> but you will NEVER know how traumatic it is on a woman unless you'd seen my wife that night about to faint when she saw somebody trying to crawl through the kitchen window


Yes...I do. Don't assume that just because we don't advocate what you want out of your dog that we don't know.

I most certainly DO know...but my dogs are not weapons, and I do NOT expect them to protect me.

Two of mine have, but I did not train nor expect them to, and even then neither needed to actively engage in terms of biting.

You need to get this puppy out and expose her to EVERYTHING. Black people, white people, Asian people, Hispanic people, other dogs, cats, kids, the elderly, the infirm, those with various disabilities...it is extremely important that you do so!


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Agreed. Socializing her with a handful of people and two cats really isn't going to make a "protective" dog.. it's going to create a nutcase.

Shepherds are supposed to be indifferent to strangers and aloof by temperament. They're supposed to form very strong bonds with their owners. Protection work and withholding socialization are two very different things and the latter is quite irresponsible, especially given the stigmas that GSDs are still recovering from as a breed.

The dog in the house is enough. I hate to be blunt.. but if someone's going to break in, they'll either do it anyway and have a weapon powerful enough to take down the dog, or they won't do it just based on the dog's presence, NOT the dog's temperament. A dog who bites can't stop someone with a gun.

You're in the critical period for socialization.. and I really suggest you do it. Puppy classes, trips to the park, EVERYTHING.. a few people here and there at your house just doesn't cut it. You'll either wind up with a dog who barks and lunges at everything or a dog like mine who's been scared s#!tless for two years of her life of everything.

Please.. take it from people who know.. and Xeph certainly knows her stuff about GSDs


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Look at it this way and see if it makes sense, the more socialization you do with your pup the chances are the braver your dog becomes. The braver your dog, the better protection dog you will end up with. Many years ago in the old school days police depts had some very crazy dogs that if let loose could and did go off on innocent people. These dogs were poorly trained and had little socialization because the thoughts then were to not let dogs meet strangers at all. It was thought by meeting people the dogs would then not bite when needed. They ended up with something in those days called sharp-aggression which meant scared agressive dogs, who sometimes turned on handlers also.

This does not mean that all dogs turned out like this but people here are trying to warn you of the possibilities. Forewarned is forearmed.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I must, must, MUST reiterate again that THIS is what you want:









Otherwise you get this:









So not cool.

And without the first picture, you do NOT get "protection".

Most dogs when faced with fight or flight, INCLUDING schutzhund dogs, will choose flight if they have the option. Without training, the chance of fight is significantly less, however, when your dog is well socialized and bonded to you, your family, but can ALSO tell a static difference between friend and enemy, they're at least more likely to bark at an intruder.

It is the bond between dog and family that helps out bring territoriality and protection of said family...not lack of socialization. And it should NEVER be left up to the dog to decide who gets bitten and who doesn't...that is YOUR job!

When I was heading down to TN for a job, I stopped at a truck stop. People were not particularly friendly...it's the south...."my kind" still aren't always treated the best.

It was terribly hot (at least compared to temperate WI), so I had the windows rolled down for Strauss while I got out to stretch my legs. A rather surly and unkempt trucker was making all sorts of rude comments to me, but I ignored them....that made him madder, and I got "Hey, n*****! I'm talkin' ta you!"

I was going to get back in my car, but I was being approached rather quickly. Strauss was sitting stock still in the back of the car, laid out on the seats (he's not allowed to stick his head out of the window, regardless of whether or not the car is moving). The yeller didn't see my dog, but the leash was hanging out the window, so I held on to it.

He got closer, Strauss got pissed, and he leapt through that window before I could say a damn thing about it. He NEVER made any move to bite, but he stood in front of me and barked his (wonderful) fool head off. I immediately told him to fuss and sitz, and he complied....and he sat there with a low center and a forward stare that would have put the fear of God in anyone.

The man stopped, quickly reassessed his situation, and turned the other direction.

Strauss was only 18 months old at the time. He had never been trained in protection work, and, if push came to shove, I don't believe he would have engaged the guy....but he didn't need to. His presence was a big enough deterrent because while the guy was an absolute %*@#&(%&@#*%&#@ in all other regards he was normal...aka, the big furry thing with a mouth full of teeth wasn't worth messing with.

Dogs sense vibes....they know good vibes and bad vibes, and that guy definitely sent bad vibes to my dog.

My dog is not the norm....but he exhibited a Shepherd trait in coming to his handler's aid, and exhibited the even BIGGER and more IMPORTANT trait...IMMEDIATE compliance and being called off the threat.

I will say again that my dog was NOT trained in bitework at the time, but solid obedience saved that man from a possible bite, and it put and kept me in control of the situation.

Without this:









You have *NOTHING!!!!!*


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I know a couple of German Shepherds who were deliberately undersocialised so they would be wary of strangers and good protection dogs. Let me describe these dogs to you. When they're in the house and they see a stranger, they bark, growl and generally freak out. When guests are over at their owners' houses, they freak out. When they're on walks and they see strangers approaching, they freak out. But wait, there's more! Once the stranger actually gets within 8 feet of them, they're so terrified out of their wits that they're behind their owners piddling on the floor. 

A well-socialised German Shepherd is a well-behaved, stable, loyal, confident dog. Just the kind of dog that crooks don't want to mess with.

EDIT: Xeph and I posted at roughly the same time... Erm, what she said.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

jacobs454 said:


> I'm not going to raise a dog-of-death, but you will NEVER know how traumatic it is on a woman unless you'd seen my wife that night about to faint when she saw somebody trying to crawl through the kitchen window.


Been there done that. I live alone. I have 5 cats and a GSD. My dog is well socialized. I also own, and can use effectively, a .12 ga Savage Pump. 

The .12 ga is NOT well socialized. 

I would suggest the same for your wife along with lessons in its use and effectivness. 

*Women should not feel the need for man or dog as protector.* They have their own brains, skills and ability for that and man and beast should beware when those brains, skills and abilities are honed! 



jacobs454 said:


> Anyway, so far Chewy's learned the following commands:
> AHHHHTTT!!! (means NO, especially effective when she tries eating the cat food)
> GIMME FIVE!!! (yep, she knows all about it!)
> GOOD CHEWY!!! (after she does her duty in the right place, comes when we call her, etc.)
> ...


Then, out of that love you will socialize her and get your wife the 12 ga.... 



jacobs454 said:


> BTW, when talking about the crate, when is she old enough to let out of the crate at night? She'll be restricted to about 4 rooms (chewable-free) in the house, but she'll be free to roam and patrol. What's your advice? THANKS AGAIN!


I confine my dog at night. Some do not. She is in an area, not in a crate, at night. 



Xeph said:


> When I was heading down to TN for a job, I stopped at a truck stop. People were not particularly friendly...it's the south...."my kind" still aren't always treated the best.
> 
> It was terribly hot (at least compared to temperate WI), so I had the windows rolled down for Strauss while I got out to stretch my legs. A rather surly and unkempt trucker was making all sorts of rude comments to me, but I ignored them....that made him madder, and I got "Hey, n*****! I'm talkin' ta you!"
> 
> ...


This story makes my stomach curdle.. I hate prejudice. It bespeaks of small closed minds.

Strauss, BTW, (as you already know) is just awesome. GOOD DOG! WOW!!!



Xeph said:


> Dogs sense vibes....they know good vibes and bad vibes, and that guy definitely sent bad vibes to my dog.
> 
> My dog is not the norm....but he exhibited a Shepherd trait in coming to his handler's aid, and exhibited the even BIGGER and more IMPORTANT trait...IMMEDIATE compliance and being called off the threat.
> 
> I will say again that my dog was NOT trained in bitework at the time, but *solid obedience saved that man from a possible bite, and it put and kept me in control of the situation.*


Emphasis added because that is what it is ALL about in a bad situation.. whether it is a jerk at a truck stop or a jerk coming thru the window in the middle of the night.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> I will say again that my dog was NOT trained in bitework at the time, but solid obedience saved that man from a possible bite, and it put and kept me in control of the situation.




Years ago I trained a male GSD, that I started as a pup and took dog everywhere with me, I had a friend who ran a Obedience school and once a week I would work dog in a class just for more social skills for dog. When dog was 2 yrs old I sold him to a young woman who had just started a camping business, people would pull in with campers plug in and there was clubhouse with a bar and playground setup for kids etc. She had an older security type guard/watchman type, no gun etc just would patrol the area. The watchman called one night, he had trouble getting a drunk off property, she drove down with dog from clubhouse got out of car with dog walked over to where they were arguing and stopped a few feet away. The drunk started to approach her and and there was no barking but the dog sitting at her side started growling with a full toothed snarl. the drunk became undrunk and left immediately. This dog had no bitework either. Would the dog have attacked the man? I don't know, it never got that far.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Continuing Socialization: An unsocialized dog is NOT aggressive ... he is scared and even more dangerous than an aggressive dog. 

1. Socialize the dog with lots of different people and with lots and lots of children, as already mentioned.
2. Socialize her with lots of different dogs and different animals - cats, rabbits, squirrels, horses - so that you get a stable and predictable dog.

I have a Lab x GSD rescue that was ultra-socialized, so that I can trust him with a child and an ice cream cone - he may take a lick, but will never do harm, even if the child sticks her hand in his mouth. However, when a stranger sees him, the stranger is very wary of the large dog ... unless the stranger knows dogs. However, even my gentle dog will bark when startled. He won't do anything, but you have to really know dogs to see that.

And, as far as a burglar alarm, I think that is all that most people need... is a large scary, noisy .... teddy bear !

- Hank Simon


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

THANKS A MILLION for all the replies people! I'll take your advice on increasing her social status. I'm gonna get my wife to take her on walks as much as humanly possible (a walking trail around town for people, pets, bicyclists, joggers, etc.) Then I'm gonna bring her to my shop so she can hang out with my mum, customers, etc. Like I said from the start, I don't know much about dogs in general, so really didn't think that socializing with other people/critters was so important. The Black/Silver GSD male I had wwwaaaay back was hardly ever around people, yet acted like a big ole' playful puppy around ANYBODY. The only thing he didn't get along with was a Doberman that would get loose in the neighborhood (YIKES!) but other than that he was good to go. I really ain't thinking about the dog's "instincts" that much though. After reading your posts and several other forums, these dogs are naturally a protective (not viscious) breed. So, like Xeph said, just having a big furry oaf with big white teeth is enough to deter most would-be house-crashers. 
Elana, the 12-guage ain't socialized, but EXTREMEMLY WELL TRAINED. It did EXACTLY what I wanted it to do, because I was the brains behind the barrel. It has no brain of its own, just does exactly as its told when the trigger's squeezed . Like the GSD, just its presence and noise alone will run off most crooks (as the shotgun did, the guy never made it through the window). My wife knows how to shoot proficiently and accurately, with the shotgun, a rifle, and the two pistols I just bought. BUT, when she gets scared, she freezes. She's not got any phobias of being alone and she's not a gutless winny, but her feeling of security (in the house alone) has simply been wiped out since that fateful night, whether it's day or night. A woman should feel GREAT depending on her big, hairy, husky, manly-man to protect and cover her butt. I take pride and pleasure (as ALL REAL MEN should) in squeezing her up against my scruffy chest where she feels ultimate safety and security (before AND after the failed-break-in) So getting a big, hairy, husky dog to give her some added comfort of not being alone in the house when I'm at work is as good as it gets. The alarm sys, surveillence sys. and lights are almost up 100%, so that, coupled with Chewy and the extra guns are gonna make life much more secure around my kingdom. In a way, I actually thank that dork for trying to break in that night - it instigated that extra initiative to make the place more safe in a world that's growing more and more unGodly by the week.
Xeph, thanks for what you said about Strauss. That's EXACTLY the kind of reaction I want out of my Chewy. Like I said, I'll take your advice on getting her to interact with other people and as many different types of people and animals as humanly possible. And don't let the words of that truck-stop-trash-freak scew your thinking on all us southerners. Here in Mayberry (REALLY!) prejudice against other races or time-zones is OVER. The only people we don't like around here is people that try crawling through our windows at night. In that case they get the whole welcome-wagon: Smith, Wesson, and their cousin from Winchester! 
ON ANOTHER NOTE: Should I leave water in the crate at night (just a little)? Prolly not, but just wondering: she sure whined alot last night and when I took her outside (just 3-1/2 hrs later) she ran to her water bowl and gulped for a good 30 seconds!
AND ONE MORE NOTE: Spiders...I live out in the woods, and along with all the other critters that crawl out of the woods at night are these godzilla-sized wolf-spiders. Not poisonous, just big and freaky. Chewy just walks right up and eats about anything that crawls or flies, including the spiders. She ate about four of them last night. Is this unhealthy? The cats eat them too, and don't have any ill-fated side-effects. What about the pup? THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP - you guys are the GREATEST!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Socialisation is definitely key... if I were hassling someone with a GSD (let's skip the fact that I am a girl, 5'1" on a good day) and that GSD was flipping out, showing signs of fear, cowering once I got close, I wouldn't be that worried. A GSD that's in that stage of fear and self-defense can very well end up biting its owner out of sheer panic. If I were hassling Xeph, on the other hand, and she had sitting right by her side a GSD that responded perfectly to her commands and could look me straight in the eye... that'd be intimidating.

I don't have any experience with wolf spiders, but you want to be careful as I've read their bites are poisonous.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

If it is hot (and you are in the south) I would not withold water from a dog at night in her crate (especially if she seems to have the hang of housebreaking and does not pee in her crate anyway). Dogs do not sweat to cool themselves and panting and evaporation is how they cool off. This requires a lot of water. My GSD also drinks a LOT of water.. and I actually add water to her Evo kibble. If I do not she will drink a bowl full right after eating. If I feed her in her Buster Cube (instead of in a bowl) then I have a lot of water available after for her to drink. Wet (canned or Raw) food does not cause this need to drink immediately after eating. Adding the water to the kibble also eliminated the need to drink right after eating. 

I am very glad to hear you are taking all the advice to heart. It is good to see that happen (sometimes really knowledgeable peopl, Like Xeph and WVasko etc., give advice and the OP argues instead... *sigh*). You have some great ideas for following the advice given. 

As to the unsocialized Smith and Wesson Bros. etc., your wife is lucky to have a reliable guy around.. I have not been so lucky. I have found the the Savage Bros. and Mr. Remington to be WAY more reliable than the guys I have known. I got a dog for my BF.. it was a good Trade!!!!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

rosemaryninja said:


> Socialisation is definitely key... if I were hassling someone with a GSD (let's skip the fact that I am a girl, 5'1" on a good day) and that GSD was flipping out, showing signs of fear, cowering once I got close, I wouldn't be that worried. A GSD that's in that stage of fear and self-defense can very well end up biting its owner out of sheer panic. If I were hassling Xeph, on the other hand, and she had sitting right by her side a GSD that responded perfectly to her commands and could look me straight in the eye... that'd be intimidating.
> 
> I don't have any experience with wolf spiders, but you want to be careful as I've read their bites are poisonous.


I agree with your reply, small addition though. I am very leery of a panicky type dog as if they do happen to pick you as target the results could be much worse than the bite of a dog socialized /trained/courage etc. It can be like a person on PCP, they lose it and are uncontrollable, a scared dog could go off like 3 chain-saws on any part of your body. Fear can be a very strong motivator.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Just a viewpoint.

Working in a lot of people's homes and yards when they weren't home in my experience GSD is a fine dog, and tends to be protective of owner and kids... But I've found when the owners and kids are not there that most will not guard your house past a few warning barks.

After years of that kind of work I probably only ran into 2-3 GSD that would not trust me after a couple of minutes to come in the yard or house and get my job done. Goes for 90% of other dogs as well including rotties and dobies.

I do believe that the number would be much higher for actually protecting the wife and kids though. And a couple big woofs is enough to frighten most burglars away, they usually aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.. 

That's all I need a dog for protection wise, to alert me as soon as possible or wake me up if I'm sleeping. If that scares em away fine, but I don't want a dog that bites unless I'm physically fighting someone off if even then. I recently got a 3yr old GSD, she does just about what I want her to already, but I'm still walking her and socializing with people as much as I can. She's a little on the fearful side due to abuse and I want to diminish that as much as possible.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I only have one small request for the OP...would you mind putting in some "returns" (spaces) in your posts?

I think I may be missing information because everything is a bit squished 

By the way, I know that the way Strauss reacted is how you'd want Chewy to react, but I can NEVER stress enough that I was incredibly surprised he reacted that way. I held onto his leash for general reassurance, not because I was going to tell him to do anything.

My immediate response to call him to fuss was NOT out of concern for the safety of my assailant, but the safety of my dog! The man had no weapon but his mouth and meaty hands, so my concern was of Strauss biting him and me being sued (Yes, it can happen!)

I called my dog into heel to keep him safe from any negative consequences towards him. That is another reason that I DON'T let my dogs take care of things and why obedience is solid. One bite can mean a death sentence for this breed, even if they were RIGHT!

Also, my dog reacting that way once is NOT a promise that he would ever do it again! I'm proud of my dog not for leaping out of a car window, but for obeying under pressure.

I will say, just for emphasis, imagine this coming at you through a window with nothing but teeth in his face:


















With this posture staring at you:









Would you believe the same dog does this?:


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks again guys! Y'allz are GREAT! Yea, I think the water will be OK. I need to get her a water bowl she won't chew on (did I mention she chews on EVERYTHING) Anyway, she did great last night too. I think she whines more if she can actually SEE me or my wife than she does if we leave the door closed. I told my wife not to fall for Chewy's whining for attention so she won't get in the habit of getting what she wants every time she cries for a whaaaa-mbulance. She's fine until right after I take her inside (even if I had her out long enough that she's about to fall asleep!) After about five minutes of fussing, finally I hear a "plop" and look in adn she's laying down about to fall asleep.
Elana, get hitched with a man that's bigger, hairier, and louder than your dog and you got a winner baby!!! (my wife knows ALL about it!)
Xeph, I'm so sorry...it must be swell to have the perfet dog AND the perfect grammar!  JK...I'll make sure my future posts are more readable since you've been such a help. Thanks again!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Now.. where was that thread about the perfect breed of dog? 

I really love your posts Xeph. You have taught me so much! Thank you for sharing your knowledge, your experiences and your dog! I clicked your eggies if that helps! LOL

To the OP all I can say is OH YEAH.. THIS is what you want!!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Is that elana sittin in a tree with a big, hairy, loud man


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*ROFLMAO!!* <3 you guys ^_^



> Xeph, I'm so sorry...it must be swell to have the perfect dog AND the perfect grammar!


Thank you for the laugh! God I wish that dog was perfect sometimes! Although, if he were, training wouldn't be necessary, and there'd be no point in having him, lol.

By the way, metal bowls are helpful for chewing. Metal against teeth = unpleasant.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Xeph, I don't know what world your in, I do understand in theory about the metal bowls and teeth etc. You have just never seen or met any of the the infamous IL metal bowl/bucket eaters that run loose in the wilds of central IL. Maybe if I had some of those famous Wisconsin Brats/Cheeses I could break these bad habits.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Hey, I'm headed down to Bloomington in a couple weeks xD I'll bring some Curds your Whey

*ROFL!!!*


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

wvasko said:


> Is that elana sittin in a tree with a big, hairy, loud man


pfffpffftttt

There is really NO WAY to effectively make a rasberry in print.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Hey, I'm headed down to Bloomington in a couple weeks xD I'll bring some Curds your Whey
> 
> *ROFL!!!*


I see, if you insist on the curds program I will have to alert border patrol. Any kind of sausage good, curds bad.
Are you showing this week-end or just personal trip.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I'm showing this weekend, but it's in madison. Two weekends from that I'll be in Bloomington...I might have the Sable Moose with me but I'm going to go look at/pick up my (possible) foundation bitch *innocent whistle* (and no, it's not the one you think).


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

SO far its been GREAT! So far she's went on the floor one time in the garage, but I ended up pulling a 14HR shift that night so she was in there for a long time. No wee-wee, just one big, fat dump right in the middle of the floor. Strange, cause I had a puppy pad. Oh yea, and one night I got home and she was so excited to see me that she ALMOST made it to the door then wee-wee'd her bladder out right in front of me.  I didn't give her a hard time over it, but she didn't get a jerky-treat either! 
(hey Xeph - I hit ENTER for ya!)

I got a question for you guys (again! HEHEE!) She has a bad habit of SNEAKING over to the cat bowl and eating their grub that they left over. She sneaks, because if I catch her inthe act, I'll yell HEY!!! and stomp my foot. She'll actually yelp and run over to me with her tail between her legs. Which is good, because she knows when she's doing something wrong. BUT, if I'm not paying attention, she'll wander. If I catch her in the act, what's the best disciplinary action that won't make her afraid of my presence? 

ALSO, I think I've already mentioned this, but should I intervene for my cat when Chewy is being an annoyance to him? He's a big ole' fluff-wad (Fluffwad's his name, BTW) thats been fixed, has a good attitude, and has been happy laying around in the shade when he's not out killing mice, rabbits, etc. UNTIL Chewy arrived. Now he's always on guard when she's around. He doesn't understand that running and growling just make her want to mess with him that much more. My other cat (Billy) is alot smarter. He'll give her a few warning swats if she gets too rowdy. Other than that, he likes stalking her and making her yelp when she least expects his presence. I DEFINITELY don't want CHewy to run Fluffwad off. Should I make her leave him alone? Also, I'd hat to see FLuffwad crack one day and really lay it on her, leaving me with the vet-bill  THANKS AGAIN GUYS!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm not a cat person but they would be fed same way as dogs 15 minutes and food would be picked up and that ends problem as chewy can be crated during feeding. I'm sure some cat people will jump in and beat me up for being cruel to cats. I'm going to run away and hide now.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Please put the cat food somewhere your dog cannot get to it. Your dog doesn't know eating the cat food is wrong, she just knows that you make a scene when she is in the proximity of the cat food when you are around. Eating cat food is a self-reinforcing behavior for her and nothing happens but tasty goodness when you're not around, which is why she is going to continue to risk going back to it when you are not around unless you manage the situation so she cannot. The same goes for the kitty litter box.

As for the cats bothering your dog, I intervene whenever any of my critters is getting picked on or otherwise annoyed by anyone (dog, cat, human, whatever). It's rude, unfair and can lead not only to injury requiring medical attention, but may also result in death. Be your pets' advocate.

ETA: wvasko, I agree. My cat is fed meals just like the dogs and also just like the dogs sometimes those meals are incorporated into training sessions. As a result my cat is fit, friendly, has an excellent recall and knows a few other tricks, too.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Dogs are scavengers which mean they eat as opportunity arrises. Your dog, (no dog) should ever be trusted NOT to eat things left around (including human food on a table or counter). The minute a dog eats something not allowed, the dog has been rewarded for doing so. 

Feed the cat 2X a day and do not put cat food where the dog can get at it. I have 5 cats with Atka and cat food is not left out free choice (bad for the cats.. lets them get fat). I have owned more cats than dogs and I have shown them. 

As to the dog harassing the cat. The cat needs places in the house the dog cannot physically go. This is very important. NEVER allow the dog and cat to occupy the same area UNSUPERVISED. EVER. Right now your dog is playing. At some point this can escalate to prey drive and the cat will lose. Prevention is 9/10ths of the cure. 

Actually, in my house, there are areas where the dog has been trained she cannot go: No dogs in Bedrooms, Kitchen or Bathrooms or Down the Hall to any of those places. This means cat food is placed in a no dog area as are litter boxes. However, I also supervise and if I cannot the dog is physically separated from the cats (I crate her or she has an area I put her in).

When the dog harasses the cat, get between her and the cat and lean over the dog and cha cha into her space in a threatening manner. I would tell her "no cats" or something else appropriate that you can repeat exactly every or any time she approaches the cat. This is doing two things. It lets her know YOU OWN THE CAT. It is YOURS. It also lets her know your displeasure at her touching things that are YOURS. 

I would also never allow her to freely approach the cat. The cat does ALL the approaching. This realtionship needs to be in the cat's control, NOT the dog's, which means you get to leash, crate, hold or isolate the dog into another room if she gets playful with the cat. 

In my house, after two years, Atka will walk up to any of the cats. If they hiss (and they do sometimes), I tell her leave it (BTW you need to teach your dog "Leave It"). She looks disappointed but she does leave it. Meanwhile, she will also walk up to some of the cats and they will rub on her and wind around her legs while she distrubutes dog kisses. I have 2 cats who are 14, two cats who are almost 13 and 1 cat who is 2. Oliver, the 2 year old cat, will initiate play with Atka and I allow it but ONLY WHEN I AM PRESENT. Supervision, for the safety of the cat, is extremely important. Cant supervise, physically separate.

Curly (one of the hissers) will lay on Atka's bed so she cannot lie down there (Atka comes to me and asks me to remove the cat). Fireball (a dog loving cat) will do the same and, if Atka were a little less wiggly would probably sleep on the bed with her. 

The older cats ran my last dog's life. She was an East German bred German Shepherd who also herded cattle for me when I had the dairy farm. 

Attached is an image I have posted b4 of Oliver doing his Bruce WIllis impersonation with Atka. Oliver was only 6 months old here and Atka was 8 months old.. and well.. Cats Rule and Dogs Drool...


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Great cat pic elana, I'm back since you and pamperedpups didn't pick on me I came out of hiding.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

jacobs454 said:


> I got a question for you guys (again! HEHEE!) She has a bad habit of SNEAKING over to the cat bowl and eating their grub that they left over. She sneaks, because if I catch her inthe act, I'll yell HEY!!! and stomp my foot. She'll actually yelp and run over to me with her tail between her legs. Which is good, because she knows when she's doing something wrong. BUT, if I'm not paying attention, she'll wander. If I catch her in the act, what's the best disciplinary action that won't make her afraid of my presence?


As others have said, the cat food should be placed somewhere she can't get it. Take advantage of your cats' ability to jump and climb by putting the food on a raised platform/table/counter, or in a room that is closed off with a baby gate that the cats can climb over. Dogs are natural opportunists and will eat food that has been left on the floor, or on the counter -- it is their instinct to do so, and when they successfully do it, it is very very self-reinforcing. Dog only needs to successfully steal a ham off the counter ONCE to be a serial counter-surfer after that.

Definitely work on "leave it" -- work, work, work. It's such an important command. You should also try to keep an eye on her at all times -- if this means tethering her to you with a leash, by all means do so.

Listen to everything Elana said regarding dog-cat interaction. BTW Elana, GREAT pic.


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

GREAT stuff guys. Thanks a MILLION. So you're saying no matter what reinforcement techniques you make, the dog will always eat whatever's "ripe for the pickin?" That STINKS, but makes sense. He knows to be a good little doggy when I'm around, but if I leave her to her own devices, she'll start wandering closer to the "cat-lair." One thing that concerns me is this: when I yell "HEY!" and stomp my foot, she yelps and runs for cover for a few seconds. Unfortunately, after this she acts a little skittish and afraid of me. I hope this doesn't lead to her being paranoid. I don't kick her butt, I just have a deep, loud voice. Anyway, I have a few new developments:

I left her in the garage after church today wo me and my wife could relax inside and take our afternoon nap. Well, time got away from us and ended up leaving her out there for about 6 hours. I figured she prolly wasn't able to "hold it" that long so I went to the garage suspecting a steamin pile or two. SUre enough, right on the floor was a dunhill of devestation, right next to a yellow puddle of wee-wee. But NOT on the puppy pad  Is there a better solution than a puppy pad for in the garage? Somebody else mentioned a cow-mat, or floor mat with wood shavings on it. Would that do the trick? Usually she holds it and does her duty AS SOON as I let her out, so I don't think she'll get used to crapping the floor up, but I'd rather be a bud-nipper.

ALSO, she threw up today. I couldn't attribute it to anyhting other than the fact that she ate the dog food out of the bowl that I left for her yesterday, so it was about 12hrs old. She might have ate a frog too, along with the spiders, beatles, and pretty much anything that moves. Any ideas about this? Also, you guys mentioned exercise as being UTIMATELY important. When I let her out, she mostly hangs around the house, snffing, chewing, etc. Not much running. Should I get her a leash and take her up and down the road for walks so she'll get some more exercise? 

ONE MORE THING : If she does her duty in the garage, is it too late to correct her about it? Is it after the fact to show her her stuff and say NO or BAD DOGGY? SORRY for all the questions, I just want to work all this stuff out of her ASAP. THANKS A MILLION!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

jacobs454 said:


> GREAT stuff guys. Thanks a MILLION. So you're saying no matter what reinforcement techniques you make, the dog will always eat whatever's "ripe for the pickin?" That STINKS, but makes sense.


Well, they may not ALWAYS eat what's there, but they should never be trusted not to. In other words, if you leave it out where it's accessible to the dog, it's all fair game, and if you come back and the cat food's gone, it's kind of "you should've seen it coming". Obviously, training helps, but you'd need REALLY extensive training for a dog to completely ignore a bowl of food on the ground even when no one was looking.



> He knows to be a good little doggy when I'm around, but if I leave her to her own devices, she'll start wandering closer to the "cat-lair." One thing that concerns me is this: when I yell "HEY!" and stomp my foot, she yelps and runs for cover for a few seconds. Unfortunately, after this she acts a little skittish and afraid of me. I hope this doesn't lead to her being paranoid. I don't kick her butt, I just have a deep, loud voice.


I can very easily see a dog becoming skittish or at least slightly fearful of you that way. Have you tried just giving an "Ah ah" or a "Chewyyyyy..." ? Often a low, drawn out reprimand can have the same effect as a sudden, loud one, and doesn't give the dog as much of a fright.



> I left her in the garage after church today wo me and my wife could relax inside and take our afternoon nap. Well, time got away from us and ended up leaving her out there for about 6 hours. I figured she prolly wasn't able to "hold it" that long so I went to the garage suspecting a steamin pile or two. SUre enough, right on the floor was a dunhill of devestation, right next to a yellow puddle of wee-wee. But NOT on the puppy pad  Is there a better solution than a puppy pad for in the garage? Somebody else mentioned a cow-mat, or floor mat with wood shavings on it. Would that do the trick? Usually she holds it and does her duty AS SOON as I let her out, so I don't think she'll get used to crapping the floor up, but I'd rather be a bud-nipper.


Puppies don't automatically know that they should be soiling the puppy pad instead of the floor. To pups, the puppy pad is just another section of the room that happens to be made of a different material.



> ALSO, she threw up today. I couldn't attribute it to anyhting other than the fact that she ate the dog food out of the bowl that I left for her yesterday, so it was about 12hrs old. She might have ate a frog too, along with the spiders, beatles, and pretty much anything that moves. Any ideas about this? Also, you guys mentioned exercise as being UTIMATELY important. When I let her out, she mostly hangs around the house, snffing, chewing, etc. Not much running. Should I get her a leash and take her up and down the road for walks so she'll get some more exercise?


Has she eaten again? Any vomiting? Can she hold food down?

Yes, you should definitely take her out. I'm pretty sure she'll perk up a little. Imagine if you were kept in your house and let out into your yard every day for exercise. The first time you ever saw that yard it would be pretty interesting. The next day, less so. After a few days you'd be pretty darn tired of that same yard. You might walk around and sniff a couple of things but it's still the same old yard. If you took her up the street, where there are thousands of new smells and sounds for her to discover, it will engage her a lot more. It's also very important for her to be socialised -- this means being exposed to new things so that she doesn't become afraid of them when she gets older. She needs to meet strangers, new dogs, see cars and bicycles, go to the store...remember, that is the first step to creating a stable, confident dog that can help protect the home.



> ONE MORE THING : If she does her duty in the garage, is it too late to correct her about it? Is it after the fact to show her her stuff and say NO or BAD DOGGY? SORRY for all the questions, I just want to work all this stuff out of her ASAP. THANKS A MILLION!


Yup, it's too late. You need to catch her in the act; mid-poop, so to speak. Even five seconds is too late. (I know, it's a little absurd, but that's how dogs' minds work.)


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

The way to house break a dog is to have her with you all the time and to get her on a feeding and going out schedule. 

This means she is with you (tethered to you with a leash), in her crate, or outside WITH YOU. The ONLY time she should be left alone is when she is in her crate. That crate should be in the house. The only time I would use the Garage (what happened to the kennel under the Breezeway idea and using shavings?) is when you are not going to be home at all and for more than 4 hours. The only time to use the crate is when you are too busy to watch her and then at night and/or for only a couple of hours during the day when you are home. 

Most dogs are clean. They will not eliminate in a crate. You get your dog on a food schedule and then after she eats, crate her for 20-30 minutes then you go out with her. When she poops or pees, you make like she has just pooped gold or pee's platinum. Give her food rewards and let her know she is a good dog. Potty time outside is NOT play time. 

When she is with you and tethered, keep an eye on her. She will start to sniff the ground etc. and that is when you take her out. Again, every time she pees or poops outside, make a big deal out of it and praise her.

If she goes inside and you are there to see it, *quietly and quickly interrupt her *and get her out. *Praise and food rewards when she finishes up outside.*

This is a very young dog.. a Baby. You will be writing what you want on her as a blank slate. She must have a LOT of attention. This means time does NOT "get away from you" when you are home. This means that as much as humanly possible the dog should be with you and NOT in the garage. For a few months, this dog is what comes b4 other stuff in your life _if you want her to be the dog you said you want._ She is a baby animal with a high degree of intelligence. You cannot develop that intelligence by putting her in the garage. 

This dog needs you to be WITH HER outside, not just "let out in the yard." You need to be with her out there and if she has a penchant for eating everything she finds, it is YOUR repsonsibility to prevent it. Prevention is 9/10ths of the cure and vets are very expensive. 

You need to train her. This means on lead and this means learning how to get her to do what you ask, such at sit, like down, stay, wait, stand, come here, and Leave It. She needs to be taught to walk on a leash and she needs to learn about riding in the car.. and doing so nicely without reacting and barking at every little thing she sees. 

It has been suggested b4 that you get her vaccinated and get to puppy class and to basic obedience classes. You can access on line training sites through the stickies on this forum (dog training forum portion of the Dog Forum). There are some really good books you shoud read. Here is a list:

"The Complete Idiots Guide to Positive Dog Training" Pamela Dennison
"Get Connected with Your Dog" Brenda Aloff (includes a DVD)
Publications on www.clickertraining.com
"control Unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt

for Dog Behavior and understanding why dogs do what they do:
"The Other End of the Leash" Patricia McConnell phd
"The Culture Clash" Jean Donaldson

This will get you started. 

As much as I like the Dog Forum and as helpful as it is, you have a PUPPY. Get off the computer and away from the TV and spend time with your dog. LOTS and LOTS of time. She can teach you a lot more than anyone here.

Also, don't stamp your foot at her, initimidate her, threaten her, yell at her, strike her or scare her. That is no way to build a realtionship with your dog.


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

THANKS again guys! I'm gonna clarify something here...I don't just 'let her out of the garage" and do my own thing inside or otherwise. I let her out and walk around the yard with her, wrestle with her, play tug of war with sticks, rope, etc. BUT, unless I'm giving her all my attention, she just sniffs around and chews stuff. THat's where I need to get her out of the yard more. Point taken. I decided NOT to use the car-port due to one point I forgot about: copperheads. For some reason, I get a conglomeration of copperheads around my boat (in the carport). Not a lot of them, but I'll see a few every year. As long as she's in the garage, she's safe from this stuff. I bought a cow-mat and some wood shavings for the garage, so I'll see how this works. Unfortunately, the garage is her home until me or my wife comes home. Since the attempted robbery, I don't let my wife stay home alone until I get the surveillence system installed. SO, as I've mentioned before, we're gonna take turns taking her into town with us on thos elong days so she doesn't have to be alone all day. 

GREAT NEWS: she used the puppy-pad tonight! HALLELUJAH! She didn't doodie on it, just wee-wee. I fed her, took her out and WHAM, she let it roll

BTW, is Front-Line a good product? I've been giving her weekly baths with flea/tick shampoo. She's not too crazy about it, but she makes it alright. With front-line, does she still need the weekly baths? THANKS AGAIN!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Once a week seems kind of often for baths in a temperate area. Many owners in cooler, drier countries bathe their dogs about once a month, or even twice a year. They go on a "bathe only when the dog needs it" philosophy. Bathing too often can dry out your dog's coat and cause skin issues. 

If fleas and ticks are common in your area, then yes I would put her on Frontline. With the Frontline you don't need the flea/tick shampoo.

Anytime that you or your wife are at home, she should be in the house. If you/your wife are at home but busy (taking a shower, doing work, sleeping) and can't keep an eye on her, she should be in the house but in a crate. No exceptions. The only time she should be left in the garage is when you and your wife are out of the home. Any other time, she is in the house, tethered to you with a leash OR in her crate when you can't have a puppy tied to you. Remember that she shouldn't be in her crate for more than four hours at a time.

Along with vital socialisation, you should also be starting some basic obedience training. If you can, get both her and yourself to a puppy class or a basic obedience class. If you don't wish to go to a class, you need to start prepping to train her yourself pronto, because there is a lot to learn about training a dog. Read, read, read. Check out the books Elana mentioned. Pat Miller's "The Power of Positive Dog Training" is also an excellent book that has effective methods and is easy to understand. "Sit" or "watch me" are good simple commands to start with.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Frontline Plus is a good product but it will not repel fleas and ticks. It will kill them after they are on the dog. 

I use Vectra 3D (Rx) on my dog for fleas and ticks as it not only kills but repels and that includes mosquitoes. I used to use Frontline Plus but she developed a hot spot where it was applied. Due to heavy tick infestation here, I also used a Preventic Collar on her (it is for ticks only) with the frontline plus under the direction and supervision of the vet. 

Vectra is not applied all in one spot but along her back in 3 different spots. I have not seen a tick/Flea or Mosquito on her since using this product. 

I bathe her 1X a month a day b4 I put on the Vectra 3D. She got a bath yesterday. Vectra is poisonous to cats so I put it on her in the morning and then she is crated during the day (in a separate room where there are no cats). By night the stuff has spread and dried and the cats have never had a reaction to it. She got her Vectra this morning along with her heartworm preventative. 



jacobs454 said:


> Since the attempted robbery, I don't let my wife stay home alone until I get the surveillence system installed.


*LET??*


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

GREAT! That VECTRA stuff looks like a winner. Yea, I too need something not only to kill the ticks, but repel the little blood-sucking freaks. 

ON CRATING: Let's say I'm inside, watching the tube. I don't trust her enough around the couch (she's a MAJOR chewer), and the house is fully carpeted, so should I crate her in the tube room with me when I'm inside? I've tried that BTW, and she whines the whole time like she wants out, even if its only 45 minutes - she'll whine on and off the whole time. She's got a chew toy, water, the works. What gives?

OBEDIENCE: I've got a few of those books ordered, but don't have the time to go to classes (the nearest one is 1-1/2 hrs away) and I'm in the process of starting up another business on the side. What's the best thing to do when you call your dog and it doesn't come, just looks, stares, or walks the other way? What's the best way to keep her from trying to bite all the time (not viscous, just chewy). THANKS again for your patience and helping me out!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> She's got a chew toy, water, the works. What gives?


She's a puppy and wants you to interact with her. Ignore the whining and only let her out when she's quiet. She needs to learn to entertain herself.

That said she IS a baby, so when you notice her silence, let her out and reward with some play time! Tucker her out and put her back in the kennel so she can learn to put herself away to sleep.



> What's the best thing to do when you call your dog and it doesn't come, just looks, stares, or walks the other way?


#1 Put her on a long line so she cannot choose to ignore you/you teach her to ignore you
#2 Run the opposite direction and shriek like a freak. Prey drive is your friend.

Always use a different word for "Come" and going inside.

I actually have three "come commands".

Hier! - Come sit in front of me
Come! - Come where I can see you, but continue playing
Let's go INSIDE! - Playtime is over out here, we'll continue in the house

And never, EVER scold your puppy for coming to you, even if it just did something godawful like tearing apart a family heirloom. You are a safe person, and coming to you is to be rewarded, not corrected.

By the same token, ALWAYS go get the puppy for things it finds "unpleasant", do not call it to you. Nail clipping, bathing, ear cleaning, etc you should fetch the puppy. After all, I wouldn't come to a person that was going to force me to get all wet!



> What's the best way to keep her from trying to bite all the time (not viscous, just chewy)


.
Yelp like a puppy. If that doesn't work, yelp again, get up, and ignore the bugger for a few seconds. When the puppy plays nicely, the game continues. Also do a lot of "Tradesies". "Don't chew that! Chew this! YAYYYY!!!"

It's a lot like living with a teething 2 year old...


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## LHMonster (May 7, 2009)

I didn't read all the posts so I apologize for repeating what someone has said. A few recommendations that I received when I got my 8 week old GSD (now 6 months old) from a very, very reputable breeder in Germany with over 30 years GSD experience. 

-Weight control! Weight Control! Weight Control! Very important as a GSDs puppies. Males especially appear skinny. Never let your GSD get fat or grow to fast. A lot of people will think their pup is skinny and feed them more, causing the dog to grow too big too fast. To much weight on the pups soft bones can cause joint/elbow/hip problems. You should always be able to feel the ribs without any fat in between. You should not be able so see the ribs, but should feel them. I was instructed to switch to adult food (no more than 23% protein) at 4 months of age. Give your dog egg yolks (and its shells) a couple times a week and cottage cheese a couple times a week.

-Socialization. Take your pup everywhere and teach him manners from the start. Very important to have a good natured dog if you choose to train for schutzhund. No respectable schutzhund club will let an unbalanced/undersocialized dog in their club.

-Don't over exercise your dog. Limit walks to about 30 min until 6 months of age. This is for joint/hip/elbow problems. Don't let him/her climb lots of stairs or jump off high places (like car) until bones have developed. Don't run the pup with bike. I was told about 8 months is when the bones are strong.

-Using a crate! I was able to potty train my pup in 1 day, no joke. I kept it by my bed and every time she whined I took her out. Even if she just went out before, no mistakes on my part = easy potty training. At about 4 months she could hold it for the 6 hours I sleep 90% of the time. 

I got a lot of crap from friends and family for enforcing what I was told by the breeder. Especially the car, stair, weight control. But I know the breeder breeds, trains, and shows Sch3's and German/World champ GSDs for decades. Good luck!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

LHMonster said:


> I didn't read all the posts so I apologize for repeating what someone has said. A few recommendations that I received when I got my 8 week old GSD (now 6 months old) from a very, very reputable breeder in Germany with over 30 years GSD experience.
> 
> -Weight control! Weight Control! Weight Control! Very important as a GSDs puppies. Males especially appear skinny. Never let your GSD get fat or grow to fast. A lot of people will think their pup is skinny and feed them more, causing the dog to grow too big too fast. To much weight on the pups soft bones can cause joint/elbow/hip problems. You should always be able to feel the ribs without any fat in between. You should not be able so see the ribs, but should feel them. I was instructed to switch to adult food (no more than 23% protein) at 4 months of age. Give your dog egg yolks (and its shells) a couple times a week and cottage cheese a couple times a week.
> 
> ...


LHMonster



> -Weight control! Weight Control! Weight Control! Very important as a GSDs puppies. Males especially appear skinny. Never let your GSD get fat or grow to fast. A lot of people will think their pup is skinny and feed them more, causing the dog to grow too big too fast. To much weight on the pups soft bones can cause joint/elbow/hip problems. You should always be able to feel the ribs without any fat in between. You should not be able so see the ribs, but should feel them. I was instructed to switch to adult food (no more than 23% protein) at 4 months of age. Give your dog egg yolks (and its shells) a couple times a week and cottage cheese a couple times a week.


I absolutely love it, this is old school especially the adult food low protien at 4 months of age. The attitude that pushing this high powered/protien puppy food at these pups that promotes quick growth and all that entails is just stupid. I have been preaching for years about the adult food routine.

The socialization of pups is pushed very heavy (as it should be) for all breeds on DF but I think some new GSD owners think that a good natured pup may not be the protector that some people buy GSDs for, 30 years ago a lot of the police dogs were 1 step the other side of insanity. I digress, an excellent reply.


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

SWWWEEET! I've been leashing her more the last few nights and she's gettin the hang of it. SHe's still a little goofy when it comes to calling her over, but I figure she'll grow out of it with some more training. 

I tell ya guys (and I might become enemy of the state for saying this) but this is EXACTLY why I've always LOVED my kitties and never got a dog! They just sit there, lick themselves, keep the mice and critters of the estate, and pur when they're pet! BUT, after getting Chewy, and seeing that playful look in her eyes when I'm playing dog-of-war (I get one end of her slobbery chew toy in my mouth, the other end in hers and we yank back and forth ) I shout HALLELUJAH for the day I brought her home baby! She'll take some work, but the reward is PRICELESS!

ALSO, the mat with wood shavings worked, almost TOO good. Now, she just goes on the mat and hardly ever goes outside  But, when I bring her inside, she whines when she needs to go out, so it's close enough to perfect for me. I bought some ONESHOT (I think thats what its called) from PetSense today and put it on her back and rump, so hopefully that'll get rid of the ticks (not too much problems with fleas). I'm building a new cage to keep her in at my shop (at work) so I'm gonna start taking her with me a few days a week and let her roam around with my buddies (and another kitty cat) and get her out more often so she don't get cabin-fever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobs454, then quoted by Elana:
Since the attempted robbery, I don't let my wife stay home alone until I get the surveillence system installed. 

LET?? 

You GOT IT BABY! She just don't feel safe without being in the presence of me, her big ole' HAIRY MANLY MAN! WHOOOO!!! Heck, even if I did "Let" her stay home alone, she couldn't stand it  BTW, I don't know if I told you guys or not, but they caught the "kid" that was breaking into our house, along with 45 other counts of breaking and entering!  But, at least he's alive to reflect on his stupidity (behind bars) and think about changing the direction of his life. 

THANKS AGAIN for all your help ladies and gents!


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

ONE MORE POINT: when transferring her back and forth to work (about 25 mintues), what's the best way to haul her? I drive a fuel-saver back and forth, and doesn't have enough room for her travel case, so what's the best, cleanest, and safest way to haul her? THANKS AGAIN!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

If you can't figure out how to get a dog in the car for transport, I wonder if this dog has been to the vet for shots, exams and worming (let alone being prepared for any E-Vet situations). 

Considering previous posts discussing taking the dog places for socializing I wonder about a lot more as well.

You are on your own. I'm done.


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> If you can't figure out how to get a dog in the car for transport, I wonder if this dog has been to the vet for shots, exams and worming (let alone being prepared for any E-Vet situations).
> 
> Considering previous posts discussing taking the dog places for socializing I wonder about a lot more as well.
> 
> You are on your own. I'm done.


Thanks for your optimism Elana!  Really, the only time she's been in a car (or truck) is when I took her from the breeder's house, to my house. All the shots/vet exams etc. were all taken care of. I got all that paperwork for proof when I bought her. Keep in mind that I'm a dog-newbie, so don't give up on me yet, I'm learnin it more every day and every night...REALLY! BTW, what's a Vet? 

BTW Xeph, I tried that "HIER" command, and she went to teh side yard and wee-wee'd??  Not exactly the reaction I was looking for, but it'll work! 

THANKS AGAIN GUYS!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

jacobs454
I know you're new, but did you think you just had to say words to your pup and he would do whatever you wanted. Don't you know you got to let him read the command instruction manual 1st so he knows what he is suppose to do when you speak the magic words.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You can't just tell a dog "Hier" and expect it to know what it means....what if someone told you to "Rutabaga" and they expected you to know that it meant to jump over a fencepost but they never told you that?


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## jacobs454 (Apr 26, 2009)

Point taken WVASKO. I'll get her some reading glasses!  Really, those books are on the way and I'll read em ASAP. BTW Xeph, I really didn't know what RUTABAGA meant, until somebody said that word one time and I had this uncontrollable urge to jump over a fence post!  THANKS AGAIN for ALL your help guys, I don't wanna wear out my welcome, so I'll hit the books next week and before you know it, you'll see me on TV with my new award-winning Chewy the Great! Thanks again!


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