# Considering Std Poodle, Airedale or Std Schnauzer...



## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

*Considering Standard Poodle or Standard Schnauzer...*

**EDIT** I've taken Airedales off the list due to cat issues and a lack of good breeders in our area. We have 2 cats. So it's a debate about Standards... the kind with beards vs the kind with topknots! :decision:

Hi folks, we have been dogless for several years now, and we'd like to become dog owners again. My wife and I live in the suburbs with our 3yo son and [almost7]yo daughter. We have 2 indoor cats, and both of our kids are great with them. My daughter feeds the cats every morning. It's her responsibility. We have a house with a fenced yard. I work shiftwork, and my wife teaches elementary school Mon-Wed. 

Our last dog was an old rescue Rottie we got at about age 8, estimated by the shelter. He was a great buddy, but my wife did not like being alpha to him. She also waffles on following through with the kids, at times. This worries me since I'm looking at 2 terriers of the 3 choices. 

We're looking for medium size <75lbs, protective without being aggressive, smart and good with the kids, and no crazy shedding. We could handle some shedding, but no Corgis(they were on the list until I found out how much they shed!) or GSDs. We had [female]Bouviers on our first list but took them off when they just didn't click with us in person. We all love the several Schnauzers we've met, and in fact have a great breeder locally. I'm arranging visits with some Spoodles and Airedales in the next couple weeks so we can check them out too. I know they all have pluses and minuses, and I've spent months researching all 3 breeds. (I've also read the Standard Schnauzer vs. Irish Terrier epic thread from a few years back).

One thing I noticed is that of the SS and Airedale owners, some don't recommend their own breed, whereas universally all the Spoo owners do and love theirs to death. Coincidence? Are all Airedales and SS a royal PITA to own? The SS breeder we have is very laid back with her dogs. So is the owner she referred us too. These particular Schnauzers seem more like bearded square labs in temperament than the nightmares some owners describe. 
_MOST_ Airedale owners have nothing but praise for the breed, but I've seen a few who wouldn't exactly give their dogs a 5-star amazon review!:help: I know we could be happy with any of the three, but I don't really want a 4-legged problem child, lol. Any dog we get will be going to obedience training and hopefully some fun-level competitions. I loved teaching our old Rottie tricks etc., and would want to do it again. We are planning on about 45 minutes a day for adult dog walks, with indoor and outdoor playtime on top of that. We will eventually have to leave the adult dog alone 2-3 days a week for work. I will be taking night shifts until the dog is mature enough to be make it through a work day. It will be crated until old enough to be trustworthy. 
Experts please chime in!
Thanks!


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

I have a giant schnauzer standard poodle mix. I would say out of those breeds and a toddler in the house, a standard poodle is what I would recommend. My dog is 9 months old and I don't think I'd becomfortable with her around a kid under 8 or so. I don't think she'd like attack them or anything, she's just very very very energetic and independent and so....well there's no other way yo describe it...schnauzer. she just thinks that she knows better than everyone else and everything should go her way all of the time and is quick to guard arond other dogs. I have never seen a poidle act this way from the many I have met. Poodles to me are more of a typical family dog, in my eyes.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

I'll leave the "alpha" stuff to someone with a better arsenal of tools. 

I'd be willing to bet that the SS and Airedale breeders/owners love their breed just as much as the SP folks it's just that they are being realistic about what it takes to own one. Not that any breed is a breeze, but terriers in general are just _more_ dog than most people are up for taking on. Couple that with all the usual puppy stuff and those breeders are trying to make darn sure that anybody interested in their breed is well prepared for what they are getting into. It's a real shame when someone "thinks they're ready for X breed", gets one and is miserable and frustrated with their choice. IME this happens way more often with any of the terriers than with a poodle of any size. 

SP's are relatively adaptable dogs that don't often wind up being highly prey driven manic whirling dervishes...which I've seen with MANY schnauzers of all sizes and Airedales when their needs are not being met. Of course keep in mind ALL dogs are individuals so you _could_ wind up with a nutty poodle or a laid back terrier. 

45 min of walking and daily playtime in the yard does not sound like enough to keep the SS and Airedales I've met happy. Most of them get 1+ hour of *hard* exercise, which means off leash running, rain or shine plus daily training. The SS breeder I know also set up an agility course in her yard because despite an hour of RUNNING her dogs where still pretty crazy. Most of the SP I've met would be perfectly happy with that, but also up for anything else you might be willing to throw at them. In fact on rainy days you could even skip the walk if you just spent some time teaching a new trick or two...mental exercise tires the out just ads well.

Have you considered getting a "retired show dog" instead of a pup from these breeds? That way you could be sure of the laid back temperament in the terriers AND also of that individual dog's exercise requirements. Most of them are relatively young when they retire and you could get that terrier you really enjoy without having to take a crapshoot on a puppy that may turn into a "whole lotta dog". Alternatively, the exercise requirements are similar, but there is another terrier breed that In my experience temperamentally tends to mesh with far more family's and situations. The Wheaten Terrier might be something you should look into.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I would recommend the spoodle. They are awesome dogs, and generally great family dogs. The ones I have met have all been calm, but ready to run around and play and be active whenever you are. They are very trainable and biddable.

The standard schnauzer is really more of a working breed than anything. I wouldn't classify them as terriers at all (and I know owners/breeders who definitely wouldn't classify them as terriers). So maybe that makes them easier or more difficult for you, not sure. Generally working breeds need consistent training and expectations, and a job to do. They are also not super cuddly or loving with strangers (the ones I know don't give the time of day to anyone but their owners or people they know well), which could be challenging in a house with young children and friends coming in and out.

Airedales are also challenging dogs to own and have a lot of energy and I don't think a 45min walk every day would be enough. I also don't think they're the best choice with small children either.

So basically, I think the SS and airedale might be more dog than you're looking for. Out of those 3, the standard poodle is most likely to fit easily into your life and be a great companion for your kids.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Clead said:


> Our last dog was an old rescue Rottie we got at about age 8, estimated by the shelter. He was a great buddy, but my wife did not like being alpha to him. She also waffles on following through with the kids, at times. This worries me since I'm looking at 2 terriers of the 3 choices.


Gonna go ahead and address it.

She doesn't have to be an "alpha" because dogs do not work on a system of dominance with humans. There is no need to try and dominate your dog or be it's alpha.


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## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

HollowHeaven said:


> Gonna go ahead and address it.
> 
> She doesn't have to be an "alpha" because dogs do not work on a system of dominance with humans. There is no need to try and dominate your dog or be it's alpha.


I'm not talking about aggressive stuff like alpha-rolling. I mean she didn't make him follow commands. If he didn't sit, she just let him. I always stopped until he followed a command. Usually eye contact was enough for him to do it, but I would give him a push on the bum if he wasn't listening at all.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

I would recommend the Standard Poodle. I think a SS and Airedale would be more dog than you are looking for. 

Are you okay with the grooming requirements for a poodle?

My boss has a 6 month old Spoodle and she is just the most amazing dog. She also has kids, a 4 year old and 6 year old, and the dog is amazing with them. She is so smart, so sweet, so friendly, has a really good off switch. She comes to the office every day, and even since 8 weeks old, she's been a great office dog. Not many accidents, so easy to train, just wonderful.

I really can't sing her praises enough haha. If only all puppies were so easy


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Clead said:


> I'm not talking about aggressive stuff like alpha-rolling. I mean she didn't make him follow commands. If he didn't sit, she just let him. I always stopped until he followed a command. Usually eye contact was enough for him to do it, but I would give him a push on the bum if he wasn't listening at all.


Ah, I apologize then. The word is synonymous with being forceful.


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## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

Hmm, well we're meeting some spoodles at the big B.C. show this weekend, so we'll have a better idea of what they're about after that. Re: grooming, I'm a very hands-on DIY kinda guy. I make the kids' birthday cakes, built a deck this summer... I would just buy a heavy duty set of clippers and plan on clipping short every time I trim my beard. Thanks for the help


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Out of the three, I prefer the Poodle. They're awesome dogs


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I'd go with a spoo, but I'm biased.  I will say that from what I've read about standard schnauzers and airedales, they're not the right dog for everyone. My husband would love an airedale, but they're just not right for us.


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## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

Well, we met some awesome Airedales, including the "Unlikely Friendship" Airedale, Sunshade, who loves her Guinea pigs. We absolutely loved all 3 of them. They were much softer than the generic Airedale temperament I've read about. Goofballs, especially the male, Jaffa. But not in a negative disobedient manner. Very cuddly and friendly. The one Spoo we went to meet in particular was too busy winning his puppy show, but I did get a chance to meet with his breeder and plan for a future Spoo playdate in the park. Oddly, even though the Airedales' owner thought we'd be a great fit, her breeder replied to my enquiry that she wouldn't put one of her pups in a home with anyone under 5. My son is 3 1/2. Obviously she does know better than us, so I'm dropping the Airedale idea for now, but I'm really looking forward to meeting some Spoos in a non-show environment.


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## HayleyMarie (Dec 22, 2008)

I baby sit an Airdale pup, and although he might change a touch as he matures his temperament with stay fairly the same. He is a dog that follows me everywhere. And I mean everywhere. He is very, very Velcro. Drives me crazy as I am more into independent breeds. He barks a lot,especially to get your attention. He also does not have any drives. He does not play with toys, or tug. He is from a show breeder in Calgary, AB I have terriers and he is not like a terrier at all.


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## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

*Update*: We've decided to take Airedales off the list, leaving Standard_ something _:laugh: as our future dog.

We finally met and socialized with some Spoodles at a breeder's home today. Impressions compared to Schnauzers: More playful, way more indoor energy, more affectionate, more barky, even though I'd consider these spoos to be well-behaved.

So as of now, things that Standard Schnauzers win (for me): their coat, size and overall look. They lose on their independence and purported refusal to repeat tasks (tricks etc), and mostly reported aloof/serious nature.
I loved the Spoodle affection, energy and playfulness. I know I could get tons of fun for the dog and myself training it to a service level of tricks. I wasn't a big fan of their much slighter build or overall height.That's gonna be a monster crate in the car and in the house. Her big yearling boy was 65lbs 25" at the shoulder. I didn't mind the Spoodle coat/grooming but I like the Schnauzer's a bit more. I was a bit concerned when the Spoodle breeder said her lines didn't take to doggy daycare well at all. I guess the Schnauzer wins that one with its less anxious/Velcro nature. 

In any event, we need to figure out our plan because our favourite Schnauzer in this neck of the woods is having a litter at the end of February, and it will be her only one. The pressure is on! We met her in her pet home summer of 2012 as a referral from this breeder, and absolutely loved her temperament, size, and play with their kids and our kids. I was thrilled to learn that she's being bred, and we are on the list for a pup. 
Thoughts? Sorry to revive my zombie thread.:redface:


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## gsdhunter (Nov 10, 2013)

Oh no, I'm so sad you took airedales off the list! I grew up with them, they are awesome dogs! My parents are n ot good with dogs and all of our airedales turned out great ! They had one while me and my sister were babies (he was under a year when we were born) not sure why they wouldn't be fine for kids under 5.

They are not typically Velcro dogs and can be very aloof. Every airedale I've met has been great with other dogs. They are energetic, but not as much as a gsd or some labs.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Ohhh I am sad you took airedales of the list-- the size is perfect for you-- and the temprament not too terrier -like -- we had one growing up, great sweet family pet (not terrier like at all, all though she - like the one mentioned above also had a predilcition for small animals, but she liked to carry around baby birds)... coat is much easier than a Spoo as well... although, I bought a pair of clippers and groom our Giant Schnauzer my self....
Also we did maintain our airedale in a large yard...

My hesitation with the standard schnauzer is that they are fairly dominant and need consistent limits (as all dogs do - but there is not as much wiggle room in this demanding breed- our breeder bred standards as well)... in my case I am the "softie" in the family, and while my schnauzer is my "heart" dog she constantly tests me and it is a constant adjustment on my part to meet her needs...
And with the toddler, be warned that they are very mouthy and can nip, the standards are a very hard working dog as well....
it would be great (a family pasttime maybe) if you were prepared to do a dog sport like agility with the dog...
ALso our breeder has a page full of dogs that need homes, a fair number (usu intact males) of the standards tend to be nippy as the reason for their rehoming....


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## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks for the input.:wave:
We have a SS breeder here who has a line of very easygoing, soft dogs. I've met several of her dogs in her home and their owners' homes, and they all seem much easier than a Schnauzer should be! And it's crunch time... She's just bred her most awesome female, who is co-owned with a family that has kids a bit older than mine. We went over for a playdate/referral a year and a half ago, and my wife and I both loved Bella, the dam of the upcoming litter. 

As for Airedales, I would only go with a breeder we found in WA state, who has also has a softer line. And she basically told me to come back to her when both of my kids were 5+. My son turns 4 in March.:doh: We met a few of her dogs with their owner, a true "Airedale person", and thought they were much easier than what I've read Airedales to be. 

Of course these two breed[er]s may become fond memories if a Spoo works out for us. I've really enjoyed meeting some. The energy level would be be a bit of a challenge, but I love the fact that they're handler-focussed, can be exercised with fetch, don't mind repeating tricks, and are more inclined to follow commands without giving me their interpretation of what they _thought_ I meant.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

I have a 4 month standard schnauzer/ standard poodle mix that we got from a rescue so his breeding was a crapshoot. We do know that his mom was SP and his dad was SS and his coat is soft and wavy with some poo curl, particularly when wet. He's still a baby but I can say that with the combination of the two breeds he does have a lot of energy and needs to run full speed to get that energy out. He absolutely loves to play, adores children and tolerates them touching his feet and brushing him, follows me everywhere so he's a bit Velcro, loves to be cuddled and get belly rubs. He had a very nippy first month with us but has been a quick learner when it comes to commands and housebreaking. He loves all people and dogs he meets, although he loves a little too much and cries whenever guests leave. Barking has recently become a bit of an issue but we're trying to nip that in the bud. This might not be terribly helpful since he's a hybrid, but both breeds are a part of him and he's smart and loving so that's got to say something about one or the other, or both!

I think breed and genetics go so far and then it comes down to environment and training. I'm aware that the schnauzer half of my dog may have the tendency of only liking a small group of people. For this reason, I've been diligent about exposing him to as many people and dogs as I can. We've also been working diligently in obedience class, and although he's definitely a little class clown instead of the teachers pet, he's learned very quickly.

Good luck making a decision!


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## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

Well, it's decision time. The Schnauzer breeder we have picked out has a litter on the ground right now, born last week. Dam is an awesome family dog, and the sire we just met this week. He's quite reserved, but was a great watchdog when we knocked on his door. He was calm in the house, stubborn, even at age 6, and not very playful. The SS breeder needs a deposit this weekend or we go to the back of the line. I hate to close this door, but I think maybe a poodle is the best bet for a fun canine playmate for the kids and I. My wife still insists they're too big and doesn't like their in-your-face attention seeking, but I imagine we can reduce that with training. Thoughts, Dogforum nation? :redface:


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## Schnauzerkid (Feb 10, 2013)

Schnauzers are rambunctious,crazy,headstrong and can get rough when playing.But saying that they can be gentle,sweet and affectionate.It difeers with every dog.To be quite honest a mini schnuazer would be better size and wouldnt be knocking over the children,or even a mini poodle.I think with your circumstances I would pick the poodle.I own a schnauzer myself and I have no experience with poodles but I think the schnauzer might be a bit rough when playing.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

How many kids again and how young? for a 3 small children a standard can be very mouthy as well as over protective when their friends come over to play... Our breeder usu has a couple that needs to be rehomed for biting issues (a terrier bites that is what they do)-- our Giant is a fine family pet but as an adolescent Holy Cow, we only have one child who was 6 when we got her , not sure we could have made it through if we had- say toddlers about underfoot-- love the schnauzer though, a poodle cant really compare (I mean the looks for me dont do it-- and we do all our own clipping for the schnauzer its not that hard, and if you choose to strip, its a really bonding time)-- But if you can make the commitment, well this dog is the closest to my heart really....
(Just saying though that I agree with Schnauzerkid, a poodle would be easier, if easier is what you want)..


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Also our girl is not Aloof at all, in fact she is a little bit velcro and wants to keep an eye on me- and loves a good game of Find the child when we go hiking its really funny watching her searching for her--

she gets into everything with my kid- up on the tractor we borrowed, up the ladder (took her about 5 sec to figure that out) to childs treehouse, she loves Ball (her version is kill it and run away, or dig a big hole and you drop in a ball and she keeps digging like its a rodent barking the whole time)-- she is still funny and playful at age 4....

I think it depends on how you are with them- if you raise them in with the family and involve them with lots of play, they learn how to , and remain, playful....


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

OMG look what Taquitos posted, adorable! Thats a plus for standard poodle

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/272473-willy-standard-poodle-pup.html


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Clead said:


> Well, it's decision time. The Schnauzer breeder we have picked out has a litter on the ground right now, born last week. Dam is an awesome family dog, and the sire we just met this week. He's quite reserved, but was a great watchdog when we knocked on his door. He was calm in the house, stubborn, even at age 6, and not very playful. The SS breeder needs a deposit this weekend or we go to the back of the line. I hate to close this door, but I think maybe a poodle is the best bet for a fun canine playmate for the kids and I. My wife still insists *they're too big* and doesn't like their in-your-face attention seeking, but I imagine we can reduce that with training. Thoughts, Dogforum nation? :redface:


A poodle from a breeder who focuses on / breeds for conformation or other sports should not be huge. My girl is about 23" and 42lbs.; a male would be a bit bigger. She loves attention, but (usually) isn't pushy about it. You're right about training; I'd work on impulse control and tons and tons of work on polite greeting (no jumping, no pawing, no acting like a goof) if that's important to you (and that would be for any breed, really).

If you're interested in poodle, I'd be happy to ask around about breeders.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

I didnt catch that about the in your face issue-- a pushy, demanding schnauzer that is determined to get something out of you is the very definition of In Your Face....


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## Clead (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks folks. I just declined to place a deposit on a schnauzer pup from this litter, so I guess we're future Spoodle owners! Nothing solid yet, but I think it'll be a much better choice for us. The fact that spoodles are recommended for first-time owners is an exciting factor for me. I don't think we need any additional difficulty levels in our dog ownership. I don't generally play anything on "hard" difficulty. ;-)


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## katbou (Jan 24, 2012)

I just got my first standard poodle. He is 18 weeks old. He is the easiest puppy I have ever had. Smart, easy to train. His focus is just amazing for his age. Took one week to potty train him. He is reserved with strangers but warms up quickly. He can keep up with my 2 yr old brittany but is quiet in the house. Can't say enough good. From what I have read, he is pretty typical for a poodle. My only complaint is that he his hard to keep clean. The brittany has taught him how much fun mud puddles are.


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## Jen1959 (Jan 29, 2014)

My first dogs as an adult were standard poodles. First one I was given by a friend because the 4 month old pup was just sitting in a kennel as payment for the kennel owner training an attack dog. She was the best dog ever. So loyal and loving , but not needy. Decent watch dog too. She was a small standard, only 15 inches at withers, 30 lbs, but the love of my life. She lived to be 12 when cancer took her. My second I got 3 days later, also black and female, 8 months old, had answered an add in paper. She was raised as a guard dog, her parents were on site, in a trailer park. She ended up being a decent dog, very much the watch dog. I kept her coat long so she looked way bigger than her 50 lbs,and she was tall. Not as devoted as her predecessor , but a good family dog none the less. No shedding but needed to be groomed about once a month. Love the breed. They are super smart,,for sure!


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