# Why do vets push this food?



## Erin80 (Oct 12, 2014)

So I just got back from Ghosts appt at the vet. She said I should change his food from Blue to Hill's Healthy Advantage. I used to work in a pet food store, so I know that Hill's is crap food. She sent me home with a free bag of it - sure enough, the first ingredient is corn, followed by chicken by product meal, followed by more corn. 

When I questioned her on the ingredients, she said that by products are actually GOOD for dogs since they contain cartilage, which is a great thing to be added to the dogs diet. She said corn is a nutrient rich vegetable, and went on about how amazing corn is.....which is false. Corn has little nutrient value and is used as filler.

This isn't the first vet to tell me these things, and to push Royal Canin, Hill's Science Diet, Iams AND Purina - claiming they are "amazing" companies who have research to back their food. She said that many of the holistic foods out there are just good ingredients thrown together with no research done. 

Anyway, I DO need to switch Ghosts food - the pet store lady recommended Diamond Naturals but now I'm hearing about recalls, etc. on that. There is no way my husband will go for the crazy high priced "best food out there", AND we live in Canada, so we don't have as many brands here are as available in the States. I am so confused right now.


----------



## LoveBugs (Oct 13, 2014)

Everyone seems to have a different opinion on corn, but I refuse to feed it. My vet also pushes her food, hard. The only reason we still go to her is because she's so great at her job, but she argues with me every time I'm in lol. 

Do you have a place that sells Fromm near you? Fromm Gold or Classic probably isn't much more than Diamond Naturals.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

If it's your preference not to feed corn, that's fine, but it is patently false to say it has little nutrient value. Ground corn has plenty of nutrient value. It provides carbohydrates, protein and micro and macro nutrients as well as fiber.


----------



## Erin80 (Oct 12, 2014)

^ Hmmm yes, you're right.....I just read about that in an article. When I worked at the pet store, the manager was dead against corn, so I guess that's where I learned it from.


----------



## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I don't feed corn because I believe it's for dogs to digest. I haven't had dogs thrive on most foods that contain corn, so I don't feed it.

To me it's like this: Just like your general physician is not qualified to give you nutrition advice, the same goes with your vet. I will go see a veterinary nutritionist if I want nutrition advice.

If you're in Canada, I honestly think Acana or Orijen is the way to go. I've seen most dogs do well on both 

Or if you are comfortable in dabbling in raw, there's ZiwiPeak (although pretty expensive), or the Honest Kitchen. Or try making your owN


----------



## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Erin80 said:


> There is no way my husband will go for the crazy high priced "best food out there", AND we live in Canada, so we don't have as many brands here are as available in the States. I am so confused right now.


If price is a concern I would look into these foods, I will post how much it cost near me as well. I am sure it will be different in Canad though. 

Fromm Family Classics Adult 33lbs for $38
Pro Pac 28-30 pounds for $28-$30
Professional 35lbs for $35
Earthborn Holistic GF 28lbs for $49
Earthborn Holistic 25lbs $44
Taste of the Wild 30lbs for $43-$46
sportmix wholesomes chicken (4 star out of 5 on dogfoodadvisor.com) 40lbs for $25
Chicken Soup for the Soul 30lb for $43
Merrick Classic 30lb for $53
Canidae Life Stages 30lb for $35
Merrick Whole Earth Farms Grain-Free 25lb for $36
Eagle Pack 30lb for $37


I personally love Acana, Orijen, Wellness, Nature's Variety, The Honest Kitchen, and Merrick.


----------



## Kyle071785 (Nov 28, 2013)

on the topic of why do they push it, one of my wife's friends is a vet and the main reasons she said that they push the food so hard are:
a) *apparently* its more "scientifically" tested than any other food and really is the best for your dog
b) vet offices will get either a kick-back from each sale or heavily discounted purchase for their store from the distributor
c) much of their training and supplies throughout schooling (and beyond) is sponsored by Hills or their affiliates. Just go toa vet ffice and count how many signs are up in the office based on Hills. Everything is sponsored.

Personally the ingredients and reviews on Hills just turn me off. Will it work and be a necessity for some dogs? Absolutely. Will I try every other option available to me first? Absolutely.

Jax is on the Acana brand (Pacifica to be exact). Loves it. As taquitos mentioned above, made it Canada (alongside its sister company Orijen) so its cheaper in Canada. As for your husband who won't go for that "crazy high priced food", keep in mind that usually the more nutrient rich foods actually require less feeding (amount wise) per day. So that slightly cheaper brand of food may be used up at a faster rate than a higher priced food because the higher priced food is more dense.

Just as an example. Prior to shifting Jax to Acana he was on Taste of the Wild's formula (also a great brand IMO) and loved it. On that formula he was taking in 3 cups/day of food...after the shift to Acana, he was taking in only 2.5 cups/day. So that 30lb bag cost a tiny bit more on Acana's end but actually lasted up "x" number of days longer than its TotW counterpart.

Good luck with the choice


----------



## tiger89 (Oct 13, 2014)

Science Diet was developed through the work of the Morris Animal Foundation. The MAF is dedicated to the health of animals via nutrition. It is safe to say that Science Diet is a well researched diet, and many vets recommend it because of qualified clinical studies with documented and repeatable results. Having said that, just because Science Diet is a great food, it might not be the best for your particular situation. I found that my bulldog liked SD the best, but his skin did much better on a different brand of food. I certainly prefer the grain free, novel protein diets, but there are many dogs out there that are doing just fine on Ol' Roy.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I heard that pet stores get a kickback and heavily discounted prices from food manufacturers, too! WHEN WILL IT END.


----------



## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

See, this is why I love my vet, and the place I work. We may sell Royal Canin, but my vet who is also my boss doesn't push it on people. She pushes what she thinks is right for the individual dog. They love that I feed Evangers and fully support it. Know why? Because my dog does great on it and that is all that matters. All vets should be the same, but unfortunately - they're not.


----------



## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Vets make money on anything they sell other than prescriptions and vaccines. Conflict of interest much?


----------



## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

In my experience, most brands that are available in the US are also available in Canada, it's just a matter of where in Canada you're located, and finding a retailer that carries them. My local feed store carries all of the brands that Damon's mom listed, except for Sportmix. You can find prices for most of the brands she listed on Pet Valu's website. I'm not advocating buying through them, but will at least give you an idea of what each brand costs in Canada - their prices are pretty similar to other retailers. However, the prices in my area are about 30-60% higher than what Damon'sMom posted, and it really varies greatly. E.g. the 30lb bag of Eagle Pack at my local Pet Valu is ~$55 (vs. $37), but at the same store, 30lbs of Taste of the Wild is ~$80 (vs $45), which is the same price as Orijen.

If you're a Costco Member, and price is a huge deal, the Nature's Domain is a really great food for the price. The catch is, it is made by Diamond and it only comes in 30lb bags, which is just too much if you have a small dog.

Depending on which part of Canada, you may want to look into Horizon. I find the Legacy line is at least as good as Acana and maybe as good as Orijen, but the price is better, and the company is a bit more transparent, IMO. I also really like the idea of FirstMate, but I've never fed it to the dog because it's about the same price as Orijen, which is a bit out of reach for us. (We fed it to the cat when it first came out, and he loved it - their canned cat food is only 3 ingredients, which I absolutely love). All of these brands are available at Pet Planet and at Global Foods (if they don't have it, they can usually order it in).

Yet another option is Petcurean's Now! or Go! lines.



tiger89 said:


> Science Diet was developed through the work of the Morris Animal Foundation. The MAF is dedicated to the health of animals via nutrition. It is safe to say that Science Diet is a well researched diet, and many vets recommend it because of qualified clinical studies with documented and repeatable results. Having said that, just because Science Diet is a great food, it might not be the best for your particular situation. I found that my bulldog liked SD the best, but his skin did much better on a different brand of food. I certainly prefer the grain free, novel protein diets, but there are many dogs out there that are doing just fine on Ol' Roy.


Well said! Ultimately, the best food for your dog is whatever your dog does best on.


----------



## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

One bonus in Canada is we have some darn good store brands! PC Nutrition first is great and has a grain free line as well. Walmart has Act1um Holistic, i work in a kennel and every last dog i have seen come in eating Actr1um holistic has been in impeccable condition with coats beyond soft and shiny.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Amaryllis said:


> Vets make money on anything they sell other than prescriptions and vaccines. Conflict of interest much?


Every store that sells anything makes money on what they sell. Conflict of interest much? 


Would it be ok for a vet to recommend, sell, and make money on Orijen? Why or why not?


----------



## CandyLeopard (Oct 14, 2013)

I got a free bag of some Purina medical diet or something, I didn't open it and don't plan to use it. I've been meaning to donate it..
But yeah, similar ingredients, my vet also talks highly of this food. Says corn is healthy and good for digestion.


----------



## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, Miss Bugs totally brought up a good brand to try! PC's Extra Meaty formula is pretty awesome for a grocery store brand  Worth a try


----------



## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Never had my vet push a brand of food on me. Well they did recommend something grain free for my cat which was having some skin issues at the time but nothing specific. Perhaps they don't sell any food.
Now it does seem a bit odd if a dog is doing well on something for them push a different kind of food for really no reason,but hardly worse than all the commercials for these kind of foods on tv.


----------



## CandyLeopard (Oct 14, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> One bonus in Canada is we have some darn good store brands! PC Nutrition first is great and has a grain free line as well. Walmart has Act1um Holistic, i work in a kennel and every last dog i have seen come in eating Actr1um holistic has been in impeccable condition with coats beyond soft and shiny.


I started Logan on Actr1um, it has good ingredients, but too much potato/sweet potato for my dog. My cat does great on the cat food though.  I'd recommend it to people who want affordable brands.


----------



## Erin80 (Oct 12, 2014)

CandyLeopard said:


> I started Logan on Actr1um, it has good ingredients, but too much potato/sweet potato for my dog. My cat does great on the cat food though.  I'd recommend it to people who want affordable brands.


What does too much sweet potato do to your dog? Just curious! I bought Diamond Naturals chicken and sweet potato to try with Ghost, and every time he has ANY of it, he gets horrible gas! I don't know if it's the sweet potato or what.


----------



## Doggymum (Oct 18, 2014)

I'm a new member but thought I'd stick my nose in and have my say anyway  Personally I say the only one who know what's best for your dog is you, my vets have their own opinions, some I agree with some I don't...at the end of the day I feed what works for mine....I've been lucky with my vet they're a really small really old practice and are pretty much on top but in reality, we all pay our vets to do a service for our dogs, yes they need to be good at what they do and love their jobs,have the passion and hopefully agree with what we do but they are paid to help you and your babies, not tell you what to feed your dogs.


----------



## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

While I guess some Vets may be pushy (human doctors can be as well) I think they sell food that is a trusted source and they have experience with. Zoey's Vet doesn't know all the foods out there, she said that she couldn't possibly keep up with the new foods that are popping up. The office sells Hills and Royal Canin and when Zoey was having UTI problems she suggested one of those for her.

When we had our last dog she was getting over colitis and was being fed the Hills prescription chicken recipe. Once the prescription cans were done I bought Hills Chicken kibble from Petsmart. About 2 weeks later there was a recall on a ton of foods, Hills was not one of them ... I was so glad I was feeding that.

Personally, I think Hills and Purina and possibly Royal Canin are foods that have been around for a while, have a system to back up their products and are "trusted" names in the pet food industry. With so many foods out there how many companies have the support system that the big ones have? Most people don't have a clue about dog food so Hills is OK and if the Vet knows the food well there is guidance for the dog owner.


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nutritionist. But I'd still like to address some of the comments made by others, by adding a few of my own. At the end of the day they are just my OPINION, my unprofessional opinion. My overall suggestion to the op is, if you have legitimate concerns and possible related health problems in your dog, it would be best to consult with a professional animal NUTRITIONIST - which incidentally, is not likely to be your vet.




> She sent me home with a free bag of it - sure enough, the first ingredient is corn, followed by chicken by product meal, followed by more corn.


 More on this, later.




> When I questioned her on the ingredients, she said that by products are actually GOOD for dogs since they contain cartilage, which is a great thing to be added to the dogs diet. She said corn is a nutrient rich vegetable, and went on about how amazing corn is.....which is false. Corn has little nutrient value and is used as filler.


 I believe cartilage (maybe tendons, ligaments too ?) is considered _non-digestible_ material, which means it will have little to NO nutritional value if it can't be digested of course. It's there because it's nearly impossible / impractical to remove during manufacturing, so in it goes, even though it's the equivalent of gravel, just as an example.
Sass is right about the corn HAVING value, carbs are essential and corn is a carb source. Most pet foods use either corn or rice as the source. The United States has a very large agricultural production of corn, so it's inclusion in pet foods is largely economical in nature, and therefore usually more prevalent than rice. It's not "filler", but at the same time, there are other 'exotic' perhaps more nutritious sources of carbs, just that they typically cost more to produce.




> If you're a Costco Member, and price is a huge deal, the Nature's Domain is a really great food for the price. The catch is, it is made by Diamond and it only comes in 30lb bags, which is just too much if you have a small dog.


 Excess kibble can be stored in tupperware-type containers and then frozen, to extend shelf life and prevent nutritional loss over longer periods of time. 



> Yet another option is Petcurean's Now! or Go! lines.


 Decent, Canadian-made food at reasonable cost. A viable option imo.




> I bought Diamond Naturals chicken and sweet potato to try with Ghost, and every time he has ANY of it, he gets horrible gas! I don't know if it's the sweet potato or what.


 Gas is *usually* temporary, whenever switching foods. Given a little time, it should go away.




> Personally, I think Hills and Purina and possibly Royal Canin are foods that have been around for a while, have a system to back up their products and are "trusted" names in the pet food industry.


 Re: the op's earlier comment 'corn, chicken, and more corn' .. Purina, in particular, is NOTORIOUS for utilizing what's known as "ingredient splitting". In my opinion, a company of their stature and long-standing heritage should be above such incredibly deceptive tactics. I think it may have even been them and their legal advisors, who started the whole trend years ago. Personally, I believe a company should be completely forthright, at the very least in their labeling practices, in order to earn my business. If they're not? then I wouldn't even give them the sweat off my dog's _____ .


----------



## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

petpeeve said:


> DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nutritionist. But I'd still like to address some of the comments made by others, by adding a few of my own. At the end of the day they are just my OPINION, my unprofessional opinion. My overall suggestion to the op is, if you have legitimate concerns and possible related health problems in your dog, it would be best to consult with a professional animal NUTRITIONIST - which incidentally, is not likely to be your vet.
> 
> 
> More on this, later.
> ...


The post I made was the first in this thread, I don't know if you quoting me is directed at me or the OP. The word trusted is in quotes because most people associate those foods as being good either from being sold at a Vet's office (Hills and Royal Canin) or from the shear abundance of foods (Purina). Even though most people on this forum wouldn't touch them I tend to think Hills and Purina blows away the competition in the amount of food sold. Almost every time I see a bag of dog food being bought at the local big box pet store or supermarket it is a Purina brand. I truly believe people trust them for their pet's nutrition.

I agree with you that I probably wouldn't feed my dog those brands now but I have fed both Hills and Purina to my last dog with nothing bad to report. Of course I wasn't in tune to dog food then as I am now but dogs are given very low quality foods and live happy and possibly long lives. The truth is for me, I've learned a little about foods by being here most dog owners aren't learning about dog food.


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Yeah, actually I noticed that too, right after I pressed submit. Didn't mean to offend or cause confusion, so I've now amended it by replacing 'your' with 'the op'.


----------



## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It's true that the big companies do TONS of research. As pet owners we do owe them a debt of gratitude for doing all that research or we wouldn't know a whole lot about what nutrients animals need. But I don't necessarily trust that they're using what they learn to produce the best pet food. I think a lot of their knowledge is used to find a way to make the food as cheaply as possible without killing too many pets :/. So, well, their food probably won't kill your pet, at least not acutely (might contribute to chronic problems though), which is a plus. But it probably won't be the best-quality food available either.


----------



## CandyLeopard (Oct 14, 2013)

Erin80 said:


> What does too much sweet potato do to your dog? Just curious! I bought Diamond Naturals chicken and sweet potato to try with Ghost, and every time he has ANY of it, he gets horrible gas! I don't know if it's the sweet potato or what.


It gives him yeast infections


----------



## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to chime in and say that doctors get little to no training in nutrition. Their job is to cure disease. Keeping you healthy would keep them out of a job.

And yes, I think all those prescription foods are mostly crap. Ever see what they put on a meal tray in a hospital? Refined garbage with hardly a vitamin anywhere. (yes, I work in a hospital)


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

MollyM said:


> Their job is to cure disease. Keeping you healthy would keep them out of a job.


No, their job is to keep your dog healthy.

If I thought for one second that my vet had a vested interest in allowing my dog to become sick, just so they could make money treating them, I'd be finding a new vet.


----------



## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

You misunderstand. 

Doctors specialize in disease processes. They do not specialize in health. Who goes to the doctor because they're healthy? Even when you go for your annual checkup (if you go), your doctor has nothing more to do with you for the year if they find no disease. 

I work in radiology. Of course radiologists are not running around smashing peoples' bones with crowbars, but radiologists would have no purpose if people didn't get injured or sick. Just like plumbers wouldn't have much to do if pipes didn't burst or get clogged.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "keeping you healthy would keep them out of a job." That's harsh sounding and not exactly what I meant. What I meant was that healthy animals and people have little need for doctors. And it's well known that doctors don't get much nutrition education in medical school. I'm sure veterinary school isn't much different.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/


----------



## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Hmmm... if doctors don't get much education in nutrition, I wonder why my husband is required to take Nutrition before he'll even be considered for acceptance in the RN program. So weird..


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I have some experience with healthcare - both as a consumer and in my professional life. What I'm seeing is a very gradual increase in emphasis on preventive care and a resurgence in the old managed care HMOs. We have a very long way to go, but we;re headed in the right direction.

With regard to vet care, I'm pretty confident that my vet would rather do a heartworm test and sell me Heartguard than to treat my dogs for heartworm.


----------



## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

I'm sure my vet would, too....on an emotional and ethical level. The same way my doctor would probably rather do a Pap test than treat me for stage IV cervical cancer.

On a practical, rational, logical level....there's no money to be made in Pap tests. Cancer treatment, though....cha-ching! 

People like you and I who love our pets and go above and beyond for them....sometimes we forget that we are the minority. I had a cat that had heartworms. There's no cure for heartworm in cats. You just have to manage the symptoms until all the worms die and the cat tests negative. My cat was on Prednisone for over four years. There are a lot of people who would have let the cat die or have it euthanized. There's no money in that, either. 

Heartworm is difficult and expensive to cure even in dogs. Lots of folks would choose not to bother. "It's just a dog." So really, I think the annual heartworm test and pharmacy charges make more money for the vet in the long run (and overall....averaging all the dogs in the area) than heartworm treatment.

As for requiring nutrition classes for RNs, it's possible that it's that particular school's policy. Or it could be because nurses are far more involved in the daily routines of hospital inpatients than doctors are. And what does this nutrition class entail? Does it teach about thinks like fatty liver disease being caused by a high carb diet (focusing on prevention)? Or is it just teaching why heart patients need a reduced sodium diet (focusing on managing disease)?


----------



## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Too bad doctors don't take an oath to do no harm.... oh wait...


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

MollyM said:


> On a practical, rational, logical level....there's no money to be made in Pap tests. Cancer treatment, though....cha-ching!


Except that the GP or OB/GYN who does pap smears isn't an oncologist and wouldn't be seeing a dime of money from cancer treatment. 

It's very sad that you have such a jaded view of medical professionals. You probably shouldn't use them if you think they're more concerned about money than your health.


----------



## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

sassafras said:


> Except that the GP or OB/GYN who does pap smears isn't an oncologist and wouldn't be seeing a dime of money from cancer treatment.
> 
> It's very sad that you have such a jaded view of medical professionals. You probably shouldn't use them if you think they're more concerned about money than your health.


Stop trying to make money off of us! We all know after you paid off your student loans 38 days after graduation you designated an entire room in your mansion to fill with the $100 bills you get every week from science diet and you go roll around in them when you get home every day.

Jeez, doesn't ANYONE understand how all doctors and vets operate?!


----------



## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

sassafras said:


> Except that the GP or OB/GYN who does pap smears isn't an oncologist and wouldn't be seeing a dime of money from cancer treatment.


You're focusing on individual physicians. I'm focusing on the entire medical industrial complex. 



> It's very sad that you have such a jaded view of medical professionals. You probably shouldn't use them if you think they're more concerned about money than your health.


It's very sad that you feel the need to be condescending towards people you disagree with. You probably shouldn't behave as though you have any authority over strangers on the internet. FWIW, I try to stay away from doctors as much as possible. 

As for being jaded about medical professionals, I've worked in the health professions for most of my adult life. I hear physicians talking amongst themselves all the time. Do I think that most doctors care about me as an individual? No, I don't. I think they care about me as a client and a reimbursement. I doubt my PCP would call me at home to check on me if I didn't make it in for my physical next year. Maybe things are more quaint where you live. Thanks for your concern.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

MollyM said:


> You're focusing on individual physicians. I'm focusing on the entire medical industrial complex.


But an individual doctor is going to recommend a pap smear or not, not he entire medical industrial complex.





> It's very sad that you feel the need to be condescending towards people you disagree with. You probably shouldn't behave as though you have any authority over strangers on the internet. FWIW, I try to stay away from doctors as much as possible.


 You're projecting. I expressed a sentiment. I DO honestly think it's sad you're so jaded about the medical profession and I DO honestly think that if you really think they are more interested in money than your health, you shouldn't see doctors. Not sure how that's being condescending or thinking I have any authority over you? Especially when it's a choice you've largely made yourself already/agree with?



> Maybe things are more quaint where you live. Thanks for your concern.


Heheh irony.


----------



## MollyM (May 19, 2015)

So you're saying that if I get sick, I should just rot rather than see a doctor who is providing a service for payment? 

I'm not sure how I am projecting...? *I* was having a discussion. _*You*_ made it personal. 

Feel free to take the last word. I won't be replying any more to this thread.


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

MollyM said:


> So you're saying that if I get sick, I should just rot rather than see a doctor who is providing a service for payment?


If you truly think they're more interested in your money than your health, then yes. Why on earth would you trust them?


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Nobody will.


----------

