# Puppy Countdown for Gypsy the Pregnant Stray



## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

If she gets any bigger I think she'll explode. According the vet, we should only have a week to go, at the most.




























Yes, that last picture is my puppy birthing station... I feel like a nervous mom-to-be!


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Look at that belleh! I haven't followed this super closely but did the vet give an estimate on how many there could be in there?

I saw a pic of a papillon dam with 4 pups inside her and she too looked like she was going to burst. Multiple pup fetuses wiggling around and kicking their organs can't be comfortable!


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Good luck! We'll be waiting for updates.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Indigo said:


> Look at that belleh! I haven't followed this super closely but did the vet give an estimate on how many there could be in there?
> 
> I saw a pic of a papillon dam with 4 pups inside her and she too looked like she was going to burst. Multiple pup fetuses wiggling around and kicking their organs can't be comfortable!


The vet didn't take an x-ray, as he said it wasn't "neccesary"... when I left, it dawned on me that it was a bonehead move for me to not demand one, since I need to know how many pups are coming so I can make sure all things are going okay during the delivery. She was so stressed out about the visit that I am hesitant to take her back. She's just now gotten used to me, but she still freaks out when I try to pick her up, and she won't walk on a leash. But for my peace of mind and her safety, I think I will take her back tomorrow and have one done.

I bought enough ribbon for six, but she looks like she could have 20. I think my hubby is hoping for one... haha, we'll see!

Mostly I'm excited to see what they look like. Have no idea what dog(s) she mated with... I have a feeling I'm going to get a mixed bag of unidentifiable mutt pups, who will no doubt be cute as can be.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Having a little bit of a panic attack at the moment. The vet gave me a calcium supplement to give Gypsy twice a day, but while reading another website about whelping I saw where it said to NOT give a pregnant dog calcium until labor begins or after the puppies are born. WTF? Also read that I'm not supposed to be feeding her puppy food, but again that is what the vet told me.

Meanwhile, I think I saw something that looked like a string of spit come out of Gypsy's lady bits when we had our evening pee break. Her vulva doesn't look like any of the vulvas I've seen in the articles I've read, maybe because she's older and has probably had a few litters before? She has a little triangle flap of skin protruding, and has since the first day I got her. Vet said it was just her vulva... God, I hope I never have to type that word again.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

All my brood bitches get puppy food, with various other mix ins. I don't give calcium supplements though. Too much calcium can cause problems in pregnant bitches. I do make a gruel of things that have calcium in them mixed in puppy food and give that to them while they are feeding puppies. 

The only food/supplement my girls get during whelping is nutrical and that is only if they need it.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Lol it's just a vulva.  Perfectly natural. Or maybe I'm desensitized from years of biology studies. I don't know if it's the same with dogs, but human vulva have huge variation in how they can look.

Get a second opinion from another vet maybe. It would be nice if an experienced breeder could weigh in on this too.

How much stuff came out of her? It's not green, right? It might just be discharge. From what little I know of birth, she could also be leaking amniotic fluid as well as discharge if she is getting close to giving birth. Check for wet spots around where you're keeping her, and in her bed.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Indigo said:


> Lol it's just a vulva.  Perfectly natural. Or maybe I'm desensitized from years of biology studies. I don't know if it's the same with dogs, but human vulva have huge variation in how they can look.
> 
> Get a second opinion from another vet maybe. It would be nice if an experienced breeder could weigh in on this too.
> 
> How much stuff came out of her? It's not green, right? It might just be discharge. From what little I know of birth, she could also be leaking amniotic fluid as well as discharge if she is getting close to giving birth. Check for wet spots around where you're keeping her, and in her bed.


It was clear. Maybe just discharge. She leaves nipple leakage everywhere she lays... just little white smudges. But jeez, her nipples are the size of AK47 bullets, so it's to be expected. I did see movement in her tummy for the first time. You can hear her breathe, possibly a symptom of the HW+, and so I can tell when her tummy is moving from her breathing, her whole middle will shift. But after a breath, I saw a movement under her skin that looked like something out of aliens... like something trying to break out. It was very brief, but I've seen it twice in the past hour. She's not panting or fidgety yet. I keep hearing her stomach gurgle and I let her out, but she only peed. trust me, I was out on my patio with a towel in hand, ready to catch a wayward puppy that came out with a poop, but no such luck.



ChaosIsAWeim said:


> All my brood bitches get puppy food, with various other mix ins. I don't give calcium supplements though. Too much calcium can cause problems in pregnant bitches. I do make a gruel of things that have calcium in them mixed in puppy food and give that to them while they are feeding puppies.
> 
> The only food/supplement my girls get during whelping is nutrical and that is only if they need it.


I'm not sure she's whelping yet. No physical signs, her behavior hasn't changed, but I still can't get a temp on her. Increased belly movement, but that's about it. I hope I haven't caused any problems with those calcium supplements I've been giving her. I can give her some of Panda's Blue Buffalo tomorrow instead of the Nutro Ultra Puppy food. She'll eat practically anything. I'm guessing I can find Nutracal at Petsmart? What's crazy is that when I went in there to get the other stuff I already have, I asked one of the store associates what I might need since I am a puppy whelping virgin. He kinda acted like I was making a big deal out of notihing, like it was ridiculous to want to buy things in case something went wrong. I'm tired of hearing people say "Dogs have puppies in the wild all the time." Uh huh, and who knows how many of them live? Not to mention, i care about Gypsy's health too. And people have been having babies for thousands of years, but it's still nice to be in a hospital and have doctors, right? Ugh.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Yeah most pet store workers probably know diddly squat about proper puppy raising/whelping. Yes I believe you can get nutrical at petsmart, but I am not 100% sure about that.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Yeah most pet store workers probably know diddly squat about proper puppy raising/whelping. Yes I believe you can get nutrical at petsmart, but I am not 100% sure about that.


I'll check when I go on my hunt for hemostats tomorrow. Thanks for the info!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If they don't have it in the dog section (they should) check the ferret section. It might be called Ferret-Vite or whatever, but it's the same stuff. It's fairly necessary for ferrets because so many of them get insulinoma when they get older.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

You sure she's actually got puppies in there and not an alien?



PandaCakes said:


> And people have been having babies for thousands of years, but it's still nice to be in a hospital and have doctors, right? Ugh.


If I ever give birth I don't want it to be in a hospital. >.> That's how I feel anyway. The only way I'd agree to go to a hospital is if life was in danger.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Indigo said:


> If I ever give birth I don't want it to be in a hospital. >.> That's how I feel anyway. The only way I'd agree to go to a hospital is if life was in danger.


Me, too. A germy hospital is no place for a healthy baby, and I don't want a lot of unnecessary interventions. If I ever get pregnant (big if), I'd want a home birth. Or, if I HAD to have a doctor around, a birthing center. But only if the doctor promised to respect my choices. Fortunately they just legalized midwives in this state, so I wouldn't just have to have my husband or my mom catching (I know a few women who did that because they couldn't find a midwife willling to do it illegally).

Anway, back to PUPPIES!! I know when Sonja had her kittens (she was a pregnant stray I picked up), the last few days the kittens were really kicking around in there! So hopefully they'll be here soon :biggrin1:.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I have always heard that giving a pregnant female calcium while they are in whelp is not good for them so have never done that with any females I have had. I did have one female that had eclampsia before I got her which I did not find out till after I had bred her so I did give her calcium AFTER she whelped, the Vet recommended one Tums a day for her. It was such a worry after she whelped that I had her spayed and found her a good pet home even though she had no problems with her litter.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Kyllobernese said:


> I have always heard that giving a pregnant female calcium while they are in whelp is not good for them so have never done that with any females I have had. I did have one female that had eclampsia before I got her which I did not find out till after I had bred her so I did give her calcium AFTER she whelped, the Vet recommended one Tums a day for her. It was such a worry after she whelped that I had her spayed and found her a good pet home even though she had no problems with her litter.


I'm worried I've caused some kind of problem by giving it to her, but I was following the vet's advice. I'm not giivng her puppy food now, so maybe I'll be able to make up for it a little bit.

And Indigo, lord, I hope it's not an alien. It almost looked like she'd just eaten a slightly smaller dog. She can't possibly get any bigger. We need puppies ASAP. As for the human birth, I'm actually inclined to follow a more holistic approach as well. I think one of our big hospitals here has birthing suites now that allow you to have a natural birth in a tub or however you want, and the suites are designed to look more like a home than a hospital room. I'd still like modern medicine to be close by, even if I elected to go the natural route. My mother had significant problems with me, and I have some complicated medical problems as well that are not even diagnosed yet (I spent quite a lot of time bouncing around from specialists when I'm not being neurotic about the dogs.)


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

PandaCakes said:


> I'd still like modern medicine to be close by, even if I elected to go the natural route.


Yes, this. I've got no problem with doing it mom's way, but home births scare the living **** outta me. I wouldn't be alive if I hadn't been born in a hospital, and a good one at that.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Yes, this. I've got no problem with doing it mom's way, but home births scare the living **** outta me. I wouldn't be alive if I hadn't been born in a hospital, and a good one at that.


Well, I wouldn't say I was born in a good one... good enough, I suppose. Haha, it was the best hospital in Lucedale, MS  

On the Gypsy front, more of that clear stringy discharge today, but not a lot. I only notice it sometimes when she gets up. If they're not here by Tuesday I'm going to take all of my puppy stuff back, because I'll be convinced she's going to give birth to a full-grown dog. Her belly is so tight that it looks almost painful.

I'm praying to the puppy gods that we have Memorial Day pups.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

one thing you might want to have on hand is ice cream (vanilla).....many breeders that i have talked w/ give about a tbsp of ice cream in between each pup....it seems to help w/ contractions and the delivery, making them easier.....


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I have also heard that it is not good to give dogs dairy products? Who knows?


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Kyllobernese said:


> I have also heard that it is not good to give dogs dairy products? Who knows?


Dogs can be lactose intolerant, not all are though.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Oh, jeez. If Panda sees Gypsy getting ice cream, she'll be trying to break out of the house to go get herself knocked up. She's spayed, but that won't stop her from trying to get sympathy ice cream. She loves that doggy ice cream in those little cups. Correction, she _loved _them. She's on a diet, so no more. She acts like she's in a chain gang. She's been funny about having Gypsy around, it's brought out a competitive spirit in her; she even gets jealous of Gypsy's vitamins, and Panda can smell (and avoid) a vitamin from a mile away. She's like a jealous older sister with a new baby in the house.

During belly rub time tonight, I felt three distinct fidgeting lumps; one to her left side, one to the right side, and one on the bottom. I'm assuming these are puppies :whoo:

Lots of movement, and she looks increasingly uncomfortable. She seemed to get some relief from me rubbing those certain spots. So, either we're going to have pups soon or I've massaged a big poop out of her.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

We've got panting and trembling folks... 
I moved her out of my sunroom. She's now in my living room, so I can watch her more closely and get her off the tile floor. I've got a play fence around her area, with her box and lots of blankets and cold water inside. Luckily she doesn't mind me being in there with her. She'll pant heavily for about a minute, and then rest for a little bit, and then it starts again. She won't drink water, though she seems to soothe herself by licking me so I'll cup some in my hand and she'll drink it that way.

Memorial Day pups, here we come! :rockon:


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## aBlueDog (Feb 14, 2011)

Cant wait to see the little mutt babies! post pictures!


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm excited to see them myself. I still can't wrap my head around the idea that every pup could have a different father. I did decide that, to me anyway, Gypsy resembles a smooth fox terrier crossed with some other type of terrier. She has a spotted/pigmented belly like a fox terrier, and the black mask is common. I'm just hoping I'm not going to end up with Rotti/terrier or some giant hairy breed/terrier... I guess I'll know in a little while. 

I'm assuming that since she's panting/trembling, labor is close enough that I need to stay up all night with her.

Oh, and did I mention the God-awful pregnant dog farts? She's worse than my husband. Even Panda looks impressed.


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## EscVelocity (Mar 31, 2011)

Can you lay your hand on her side and feel for contractions? The belly will get hard, then relax. Early contractions happen about every 10-15 min, and last about 30 seconds.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

EscVelocity said:


> Can you lay your hand on her side and feel for contractions? The belly will get hard, then relax. Early contractions happen about every 10-15 min, and last about 30 seconds.


Honestly, I'm not sure. Her entire belly feels hard and tight. But since I can still feel individual pups (I identify them by the little moving hard circles) then I guess the rest of her belly is still somewhat normal. I haven't seen anything that looked like a contraction yet. I see individual areas move a little, but she's just so fat ad her belly's too tight. It may be 12 hours before they get here. I keep checking her vulva. She ate a treat willingly, but I don't know if that's telling or not. I took some pictures, will post them in a few!


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Make sure she isn't on carpet that you want to keep. Whelping is messy.

I can't wait to see the pups. Sending good wishes for an easy delivery and healthy puppies.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

There's a puppy behind that nipple... I can feel it!










Panda will not be left out!










I gotta say, my baby has pretty teeth... and she's such a ham! reggers:


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

move Panda from the room.....it can cause her to delay delivery if she gets stressed, which can cause MAJOR problems for you, Gypsy and babies


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## AngelandShifusHuman (Jun 16, 2010)

Good Luck and hope gypsy has easy labour.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

tirluc said:


> move Panda from the room.....it can cause her to delay delivery if she gets stressed, which can cause MAJOR problems for you, Gypsy and babies


Yes agreed, get Panda out of the room. No other dog should be near the mother while she is whelping.

Contractions are easy to see, there will be a little ripple in the stomach area, and the mom will start to grunt. At least that is what my weim did.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Yes agreed, get Panda out of the room. No other dog should be near the mother while she is whelping.
> 
> Contractions are easy to see, there will be a little ripple in the stomach area, and the mom will start to grunt. At least that is what my weim did.


Good to know and easily remedied. I wasn't sure if I needed to remove her, since Gypsy hasn't seemed to mind her at all, but I'd rather be cautious than end up with a problem.

I just wish I had some idea of a time line, of whether she was going to give birth in the next 12 hours or 24 hours, that way I would know how much sleep I could get. She seems pretty laid back at the moment, but she's laying down more than usual. Hope she gets some rest too!

I was soooo hoping they were coming tonight, since I already had a memorial day theme for their names, but oh well. The pups shall come when they need to come!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

PandaCakes said:


> Good to know and easily remedied. I wasn't sure if I needed to remove her, since Gypsy hasn't seemed to mind her at all, but I'd rather be cautious than end up with a problem.
> 
> I just wish I had some idea of a time line, of whether she was going to give birth in the next 12 hours or 24 hours, that way I would know how much sleep I could get. She seems pretty laid back at the moment, but she's laying down more than usual. Hope she gets some rest too!
> 
> I was soooo hoping they were coming tonight, since I already had a memorial day theme for their names, but oh well. The pups shall come when they need to come!


Your not going to get much sleep for a while, since once they are born you need to stay in the same room as mom, too make sure mom doesn't squash them or any other issues. I didn't get much sleep for 3 weeks, with this past litter.

And if you need to supplement any puppies with extra milk, they will need to be fed every 2 hours. 

So just say goodbye to sleep.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Good luck with everything! Sounds like she's getting really close to delivery!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

It's morning on the 31st...any babies yet? What IS Panda anyway? Looks alot like my Boone!


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> It's morning on the 31st...any babies yet? What IS Panda anyway? Looks alot like my Boone!


We have no babies yet. I had a dream last night that Gypsy was staying at my old high school, in the Musical Theatre class, and that she had her babies while I was at school. Except she was a cat. She had two kittens, and I was freaking out wondering if there were more but she was flat as a peice of paper. Oy, weird dream. She's digging, moving towels and blankets around her area. I'm going to cover all the smaller pieces of fabric with one big blanket so no puppies will get tangled up once they come. She did eat breakfast, and she peed and pooped. But she looks uncomfortable, and there's still lots of pup movement, especially from the pup on her left side.

I've thought that Panda looked like Boone's long lost sister ever since I saw that pic! When Panda's hair is longer, she looks almost identical... her hair looks grayish when it's longer, but it's black near the roots so when she's clipped she's a different color. She's a rescue, but the best guess on this board about her breed was bearded collie. And when I got her, her fur was long and almost sweeping the floor, and she did indeed resemble a beardie. Who knows, she's just a Panda.



ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Your not going to get much sleep for a while, since once they are born you need to stay in the same room as mom, too make sure mom doesn't squash them or any other issues. I didn't get much sleep for 3 weeks, with this past litter.
> 
> And if you need to supplement any puppies with extra milk, they will need to be fed every 2 hours.
> 
> So just say goodbye to sleep.


I guess I'm practicing for a human baby!

I do have a question about the cords... in a natural birth, mom should chew through it. I followed the advice of an article I read and bought two hemostats so I could attach one to the cord on the puppy side, and one of the cord on the placenta side. Will I still need to tie off the cord? Obviously I can't leave a hemostat attached to each puppy.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I've been closely following this thread and hoping Gypsy gives birth soon! It's like sitting on pins and needles at this time, hoping the delivery goes well. 

Btw- there was never any question my mind that Panda is a Bearded Collie. I see her pic and it's Panda the Bearded Collie. Especially knowing that her hair was very long when you got her, there's no question to me that she's purebred. Anyway, I know that's not important to you. I was just surprised to find out that she's an unknown rescue. I really like Beardies.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

PandaCakes said:


> We have no babies yet. I had a dream last night that Gypsy was staying at my old high school, in the Musical Theatre class, and that she had her babies while I was at school. Except she was a cat. She had two kittens, and I was freaking out wondering if there were more but she was flat as a peice of paper. Oy, weird dream. She's digging, moving towels and blankets around her area. I'm going to cover all the smaller pieces of fabric with one big blanket so no puppies will get tangled up once they come. She did eat breakfast, and she peed and pooped. But she looks uncomfortable, and there's still lots of pup movement, especially from the pup on her left side.
> 
> 
> I do have a question about the cords... in a natural birth, mom should chew through it. I followed the advice of an article I read and bought two hemostats so I could attach one to the cord on the puppy side, and one of the cord on the placenta side. Will I still need to tie off the cord? Obviously I can't leave a hemostat attached to each puppy.


sounds like she's getting mighty close.....as for the cord, i have always just let mama take care of it herself, keeping a close eye that she doesn't cut too close......sometimes if you interfere too much, mama may tend to leave them alone and not take care of them......as soon as my mama starts to clean herself a bit i take the pup, dry it and weigh it, documenting time, weight, sex, and distinctive markings if the pups look a lot alike.....and the cord quits bleeding real quick after, as long as it's not to close.....



> I've thought that Panda looked like Boone's long lost sister ever since I saw that pic! When Panda's hair is longer, she looks almost identical... her hair looks grayish when it's longer, but it's black near the roots so when she's clipped she's a different color. She's a rescue, but the best guess on this board about her breed was bearded collie. And when I got her, her fur was long and almost sweeping the floor, and she did indeed resemble a beardie. Who knows, she's just a Panda.


i always thought she was a Beardie, too.....sure looks like one to me.....


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

I don't know if it works exactly the same biologically in dogs, but at the very least, cutting cords is controversial in humans. There are groups of women who opt not to cut the cord anymore, especially if it hasn't stopped pulsing. I imagine mom dog will know what to do, however.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Indigo said:


> I don't know if it works exactly the same biologically in dogs, but at the very least, cutting cords is controversial in humans. There are groups of women who opt not to cut the cord anymore, especially if it hasn't stopped pulsing. I imagine mom dog will know what to do, however.


I plan on letting Gypsy do as much as she wants/is able to... but just in case for whatever reason she doesn't (especially with her being HW+, since I imagine labor will be hard on her) I want to be prepared to do everything just in case I have to.



luvntzus said:


> I've been closely following this thread and hoping Gypsy gives birth soon! It's like sitting on pins and needles at this time, hoping the delivery goes well.
> 
> Btw- there was never any question my mind that Panda is a Bearded Collie. I see her pic and it's Panda the Bearded Collie. Especially knowing that her hair was very long when you got her, there's no question to me that she's purebred. Anyway, I know that's not important to you. I was just surprised to find out that she's an unknown rescue. I really like Beardies.


Occasionally she rides around with me o run errands, and when we go to the bank or through a drive-thru, I think the person working the window thinks I have a baby bear in the back of the van.


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## Nerobella (May 23, 2011)

This is so exciting :]:] It's not my dog and i'm on edge lol. I hope one day, as selfish as it is, that i get to watch/aide in puppy birth. I say it's selfish because there's so many shelter dogs who need homes already, wishing for more to be brought into the world just so *i* can experience it makes me feel kind of bad. *BUT* i wish Gypsy a safe delivery, and i can't wait to see the pups, you most definitely have to post pictures asap :]


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Nerobella said:


> This is so exciting :]:] It's not my dog and i'm on edge lol. I hope one day, as selfish as it is, that i get to watch/aide in puppy birth. I say it's selfish because there's so many shelter dogs who need homes already, wishing for more to be brought into the world just so *i* can experience it makes me feel kind of bad. *BUT* i wish Gypsy a safe delivery, and i can't wait to see the pups, you most definitely have to post pictures asap :]


If you really want to see puppies born (I do someday!), you can talk to a few dog rescue groups/shelters about fostering a pregnant dog. Sometimes they get pregnant pets in who are too far along to spay, and it's not healthy for the pups to be born in a shelter. So there is a need for it! And then you get all the work and fun of raising puppies and still help the shelter.

Come on Gypsy! Those last few days are just excruciating.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

PandaCakes said:


> Occasionally she rides around with me o run errands, and when we go to the bank or through a drive-thru, I think the person working the window thinks I have a baby bear in the back of the van.


That is too cute. 

Wanted to add- hurry up Gypsy! There are lots of us who can't wait for your puppies to be born.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Since I don't have puppy pictures yet, I figured I'd share Panda's Christmas pics...




























I told ya'll she was a ham!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Hehe, she looks like Sprocket in that middle pic (except for the hair bows of course). Cute!

Sprocket (from Fraggle Rock)


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

PandaCakes said:


> Since I don't have puppy pictures yet, I figured I'd share Panda's Christmas pics...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She has to have some peeb in her LOL! So adorable!


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> She has to have some peeb in her LOL! So adorable!


What breed is Boone?

Pups are on their way! Water sac has presented, about 20 minutes ago. Heavy panting, she doesn't want me out of her sight. She's a fan of the Vanilla ice cream...


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

PandaCakes said:


> What breed is Boone?
> 
> Pups are on their way! Water sac has presented, about 20 minutes ago. Heavy panting, she doesn't want me out of her sight. She's a fan of the Vanilla ice cream...


PBGV=petit basset griffon vendeen, aka peeb!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Best of luck! Keeping Gypsie in my prayers!


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

PandaCakes said:


> Pups are on their way! Water sac has presented, about 20 minutes ago. Heavy panting, she doesn't want me out of her sight.


Yay! I'm hoping for a safe delivery. Please keep us updated!


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## Nerobella (May 23, 2011)

You should have someone take pictures during the delivery if you can


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Panda, you really need to focus on the delivery, yes we all want updates and pictures, but a safe delivery is all that matters. A safe delivery requires your undivided attention.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

The waiting is killing me! Still no pups, but she keeps going to corners of her area and digging, and then fluid will come out and she'll lick at it... keeps trying to lick her lady parts, but bless her heart her back boobs are too big and she can't reach...


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read that this first stage can take 6 hours or more to pass... it's gonna be a long haul. Good luck!


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Indigo said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read that this first stage can take 6 hours or more to pass... it's gonna be a long haul. Good luck!


I couldn't tell from the different articles I read if this is the 1st stage of labor... she started panting and whining last night. She started panting and whining more this evening, and then the water sac appeared and broke. She may have had two break, there were two different puddles. I can't get a clear idea of how many hours it should be from that happening. She seems to be having contractions, though they're far apart. Anybody know how long I am supposed to give her before I get worried? I'm just extra nervous since she's heartworm positive.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Good luck tonight!


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Sending good wishes!

Are you able to call your vet if you get worried? Or a vet tech? Or a breeder from this forum?


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

We have three beautiful and talkative puppies, two brindle-ish and one solid black. I'm not the best at determining sex when their parts are the size of pinheads, but I think we have three little girls! Delta, India & Juliet.
They are searching for nipples, and Gypsy has plenty... the problem is that hers are way way big... some of them look almost deformed, very wide at the top almost like broccoli. Do I need to be worried about them latching on? Also, she wants to curl up with them, instead of laying on her side, and she's freaking me out because she wants to move her legs around so much. She was the best mother during the birth, I didn't have to do anything. I just want to make sure they're OK with her.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Is that all you think she is going to have, or do you think there are more to come? 

The nipples should be fine. Curling up with them is fine as long as no pup gets stuck underneath her. She doesn't have to be on her side all the time. Roomba fed puppies while she was sitting a lot of the time until too many puppies wanted to drink. Since you only have three it should be fine.

Like I said, say goodbye to sleep.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Yay, Gypsy! Congrats! Her uterus will continue to contract (actually, nursing the pups will help stimulate the contractions that will return it back to a smaller size), so she may not be comfortable on her side right away. Make sure the pups all do get to nurse, as they need to receive the Colostrum.

Big nipples are ok and shouldn't cause a problem.

We want pics when able!!!


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Is that all you think she is going to have, or do you think there are more to come?
> 
> The nipples should be fine. Curling up with them is fine as long as no pup gets stuck underneath her. She doesn't have to be on her side all the time. Roomba fed puppies while she was sitting a lot of the time until too many puppies wanted to drink. Since you only have three it should be fine.


I only ever felt three during her pregnancy. She had them in quick succession, so I think she'd probably have already had the fourth. I'm guessing she's trying to keep them warm and contained. They are moving around like crazy!



spotted nikes said:


> Yay, Gypsy! Congrats! Her uterus will continue to contract (actually, nursing the pups will help stimulate the contractions that will return it back to a smaller size), so she may not be comfortable on her side right away. Make sure the pups all do get to nurse, as they need to receive the Colostrum.
> 
> Big nipples are ok and shouldn't cause a problem.
> 
> We want pics when able!!!


I'm really not able to help them nurse. She keeps moving them and cleaning them, and they keep moving like crazy, and it seems as though their mouths aren't big enough to put her nipple in their mouth yet.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

They need to nurse mom though, as colostrum (the first milk), is vital for their immune systems. Movement is good as well, shows you have nice strong healthy puppies.


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## Nerobella (May 23, 2011)

YAY GYPSY! Can't wait for the pics


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

And we just had a fourth little surprise, baby boy Bravo. Did I mention that one of the brindle-ish ones has a bob tail?

Gypsy doesn't mind me being around the pups, but she doesn't like when I hold one. Mainly because they are all very talkative and when she hears it, she wants it beside her right then and she will try to mouth it from wherever it is.

Every towel and blanket that I put down is now damp, and she shredded the actual whelping box before she even went into labor. How the heck can I keep them contained? She has to get up and keep moving anytime one gets behind her, and I'm afraid that increases the chances that she'll step on one. But she will not get into any designated area with them, and her current area may be too large.

And a fifth surprise, born breach, little black one. Don't know the sex, mom still has it taking care of it. I did get her back into a box, and she seems much happier since she can contain them. Three are nursing, and the two black ones are hanging out under mom's chin getting baths. All healthy and rambunctious, all loud and clear.

Update: fifth baby is a girl.

That makes four girls (Delta, India, Juliet & Tango) and one boy (Bravo)


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Yay, puppies! Take pics when you're able!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

it's morning now, hope mom & puppies are doing okay. I'll be gone for the day, will check back later!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

You will need to change the towels, puppies can not regulate their body heat. If they get chilled they could die, and a wet puppy can easily get chilled. Might try getting something she can't shred to use as a whelping box. I would say use a crate and put peg board around the bottom, but she seems a little too stressed to use that safely.

Fleece blankets work great, as they provide traction and warmth.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

If she's as small as I think she is, a large clothes basket MAY do to keep them contained and she should be able to get in and out easily. It may not be over yet, so keep an eye on her and keep those pups DRY, a heating pad under the blankets or towels will help too, just keep it on low.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Still only five pups, all are warm and active and talking. They have all nursed, and Gypsy has eaten and had some water. I'm surprised that she doesn't have to go to the bathroom, but I tried to get her to leave the pups to go out for a minute and it wasn't happening. I'm going to move them back into the sunroom at some point today, so Panda doesn't have to stay locked in the bedroom.

What's the deworming situation? Am I supposed to do that or does the vet? The vet said they don't have to come in to see him until they are a few weeks old.


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## dantero (Feb 2, 2011)

Congrats on what sounds like a nice routine birth.

For worming, that doesn't need to happen for a few weeks. You can have the vet check a stool sample and then worm accordingly, or you can just assume they have worms (chances are good with her history as a stray they will have something) and worm them yourselves. The vet can tell you want type to get. 

They can start on heartworm preventative at 8 weeks. Also first vaccines around that time, once again the vet can help you with that.

Many moms won't want to leave their pups for the first few days, you may have to force her to go outside with you for a quick potty break, which will take about 2 seconds as she will want back in with the pups as fast as possible. 

If Gypsy and the pups are small enough to fit in a laundry basket, just be sure it's got really small holes in the sides, if a pup can fit their head through a hole, they will find a way to do it. A large crate, just the bottom half, will keep the pups contained for the first week and let Gypsy go in and out as needed. After about a week though you will need to put something across the opening or the pups will start climbing out.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

The first worming does not need to be done till 3-4 weeks old. I use nemex, and use a syringe. It goes by weight of the individual puppy.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Hehe, I love the names. 

Glad to hear it went well and was uneventful. Now we need pictures!


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm so glad that they made it out okay! I agree with using the bottom half of a crate. If she's in an actual box it'll be hard to keep it dry and sanitary.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Since the last two pups were surprises I don't have pictures of them yet. My camera batteries died last night 

To recap, we have four girls and one boy. I originally thought two of the puppies were black, but now that they've dried they look dark brown. The other three have coloring similar to a german shepherd, they have little black skunk stripes down their backs. One has a bob tail, three of them have white feet. Who the hell knows what they are mixed with... I think Gypsy may have found a GSD/Pit/Lab/Chihuahua/Pekignese for all I know.

In a few days I'll take some more pics of all of them, right now they're so little that they aren't the most photogenic. Just think really, really adorable rats.

Oh, and my husband was super psyched that Gypsy gave birth on his Chicago Cubs towel. Whoops.


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## Irishman (May 13, 2011)

PandaCakes said:


> The vet didn't take an x-ray, as he said it wasn't "neccesary"... when I left, it dawned on me that it was a bonehead move for me to not demand one, since I need to know how many pups are coming so I can make sure all things are going okay during the delivery. She was so stressed out about the visit that I am hesitant to take her back. She's just now gotten used to me, but she still freaks out when I try to pick her up, and she won't walk on a leash. But for my peace of mind and her safety, I think I will take her back tomorrow and have one done.
> 
> I bought enough ribbon for six, but she looks like she could have 20. I think my hubby is hoping for one... haha, we'll see!
> 
> Mostly I'm excited to see what they look like. Have no idea what dog(s) she mated with... I have a feeling I'm going to get a mixed bag of unidentifiable mutt pups, who will no doubt be cute as can be.


I delivered a litter of puppies once, and I would have been much happier if I'd had the dratted x-rays. I wasn't aware of just how long the process is. The first pup came out over the course of several minutes, and gave me a scare. But he was healthy and all was good. About 15 minutes later, the mommy dog gave one little grunt, then a second, and another puppy just shot right out. I started to get comfortable. The mommy was calm and happy, so all should be good. It was 45 minutes until the next one came, and it was as easy as the last. Then the wait increased to 1.5 hours. Then nearly 3 hours, then nearly 4. I ended up sleeping on the floor next to the mom because I couldn't be 100% sure she was done. I don't know if you've ever delivered puppies before, but here's some advice - get an old bed cover if you have one to provide a 'nest' for the mommy dog to lay down on. Under this cover place a tarp (can get one for $6 at Walmart). You wouldn't believe the amount of icky liquids you're going to have to deal with - the tarp will save your carpet or prevent a digusting mop-up of your hard floor. After all is done, just throw away the old bed cover. All in all, it was a cool experience, but I'd rather have known how many buns were in the oven.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

I am so glad you shared this with us. It is so interesting! You are a great facilitator and Gypsy is very lucky to have you. The puppies, Gypsy, and especially Panda are all adorable.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

They're gorgeous pups, congrats on a successful whelp!



PandaCakes said:


> Still only five pups, all are warm and active and talking. They have all nursed, and Gypsy has eaten and had some water. I'm surprised that she doesn't have to go to the bathroom, but I tried to get her to leave the pups to go out for a minute and it wasn't happening. I'm going to move them back into the sunroom at some point today, so Panda doesn't have to stay locked in the bedroom.
> 
> What's the deworming situation? Am I supposed to do that or does the vet? The vet said they don't have to come in to see him until they are a few weeks old.


Is there any way the vet can come to you? Or an experienced breeder can come and do it? The pups (and Mom) will be exposed to so, so many dangerous things in a clinic, parvo only being one of them.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Yay, I was hoping there might be pics by the time I got off work! Glad to see there are, and that everyone is doing well. 

Any plans for the pups yet? Keeping one? How do you plan to find them homes?


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Yay, I was hoping there might be pics by the time I got off work! Glad to see there are, and that everyone is doing well.
> 
> Any plans for the pups yet? Keeping one? How do you plan to find them homes?


I've thought about this a lot. I'm actually surprised by the amount of people that assume they can have a puppy because I took in a pregnant stray and surely I don't really want them all. Well, no, I'd rather not have seven dogs, but I'm not just giving them away for the sake of giving them away. The point of taking Gypsy in and giving her a safe place to live and have a healthy delivery of her pups was so that I could prevent ANY of these animals from ending up in a shelter where they might ultimately be put down or get sick. For that reason, I'm screening prospective owners. I'm not charging, but I am only considering people that I actually know or can be vouched for by someone that I know. 

My mother-in-law has a home health worker that comes in every day, and she assumed I would be willing to give her daughter one because she's pregnant and it could "Grow up with the baby." This is a bad idea. If a couple spent $500 on a pup to raise with their baby, then that might be some incentive for them to really be patient and make it work--after all, having a new baby and a new puppy that needs training is tough! But somebody who takes a free mutt puppy who's likely a mix of two high-energy breeds and tries to juggle that with a new baby... I feel like I'd be sending a puppy off to live somewhere for just a few weeks or months before it becomes a stray or ends up at a shelter because the owners couldn't handle it. She also specifically asked if they were going to be "fluffy" and were they going to be small like Gypsy because she "only wants a small dog that's gonna stay small." Lady, please. When I was a kid I used to go to fast-food places and mix every soda they had on the fountain into one drink. 7-Up, Root Beer, Hi-C (I know, disgusting.) All us kids called it a "suicide". These puppies are sort of like that, probably a little bit of a whole lot of things and I make no guarantees about what they are going to become. But I know lots of puppies end up in shelters or in the streets because they got bigger than the size that their owner wanted. 

Luckily, I hope I won't have to worry about finding them a home for a while. Gypsy's HW treatment will take a while, and I would love to be able to spay/neuter all the pups before they go to new homes. I'm thinking of ways to financially make that happen, until then... I guess I own seven dogs!



Irishman said:


> I delivered a litter of puppies once, and I would have been much happier if I'd had the dratted x-rays. I wasn't aware of just how long the process is. The first pup came out over the course of several minutes, and gave me a scare. But he was healthy and all was good. About 15 minutes later, the mommy dog gave one little grunt, then a second, and another puppy just shot right out. I started to get comfortable. The mommy was calm and happy, so all should be good. It was 45 minutes until the next one came, and it was as easy as the last. Then the wait increased to 1.5 hours. Then nearly 3 hours, then nearly 4. I ended up sleeping on the floor next to the mom because I couldn't be 100% sure she was done. I don't know if you've ever delivered puppies before, but here's some advice - get an old bed cover if you have one to provide a 'nest' for the mommy dog to lay down on. Under this cover place a tarp (can get one for $6 at Walmart). You wouldn't believe the amount of icky liquids you're going to have to deal with - the tarp will save your carpet or prevent a digusting mop-up of your hard floor. After all is done, just throw away the old bed cover. All in all, it was a cool experience, but I'd rather have known how many buns were in the oven.


Oh, trust me. I now know about icky liquids. Why some people decide on a whim to start breeding (referring to the numerous backyard breeders in the want-ads) is beyond me. Why would you want to deal with that all the time? Good lord, my house smells terrible. And I thought Gypsy's prego farts were bad, but her post-birth poops are much worse. Even Panda is impressed.



RoughCollie said:


> I am so glad you shared this with us. It is so interesting! You are a great facilitator and Gypsy is very lucky to have you. The puppies, Gypsy, and especially Panda are all adorable.


Panda feels very jealous and left out, she'll be glad to know she's still adored  I DID let her have a cup of doggy ice cream tonight... off the diet!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I see two Sable(not brindle) puppies in those pictures and a black butt lol


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

PandaCakes said:


> I've thought about this a lot. I'm actually surprised by the amount of people that assume they can have a puppy because I took in a pregnant stray and surely I don't really want them all. Well, no, I'd rather not have seven dogs, but I'm not just giving them away for the sake of giving them away. The point of taking Gypsy in and giving her a safe place to live and have a healthy delivery of her pups was so that I could prevent ANY of these animals from ending up in a shelter where they might ultimately be put down or get sick. For that reason, I'm screening prospective owners. I'm not charging, but I am only considering people that I actually know or can be vouched for by someone that I know.
> 
> My mother-in-law has a home health worker that comes in every day, and she assumed I would be willing to give her daughter one because she's pregnant and it could "Grow up with the baby." This is a bad idea. If a couple spent $500 on a pup to raise with their baby, then that might be some incentive for them to really be patient and make it work--after all, having a new baby and a new puppy that needs training is tough! But somebody who takes a free mutt puppy who's likely a mix of two high-energy breeds and tries to juggle that with a new baby... I feel like I'd be sending a puppy off to live somewhere for just a few weeks or months before it becomes a stray or ends up at a shelter because the owners couldn't handle it. She also specifically asked if they were going to be "fluffy" and were they going to be small like Gypsy because she "only wants a small dog that's gonna stay small." Lady, please. When I was a kid I used to go to fast-food places and mix every soda they had on the fountain into one drink. 7-Up, Root Beer, Hi-C (I know, disgusting.) All us kids called it a "suicide". These puppies are sort of like that, probably a little bit of a whole lot of things and I make no guarantees about what they are going to become. But I know lots of puppies end up in shelters or in the streets because they got bigger than the size that their owner wanted.
> 
> Luckily, I hope I won't have to worry about finding them a home for a while. Gypsy's HW treatment will take a while, and I would love to be able to spay/neuter all the pups before they go to new homes. I'm thinking of ways to financially make that happen, until then... I guess I own seven dogs!


I'm hoping this doesn't come off as critical - it isn't meant to be.

I absolutely understand your desire to keep these pups from being strays or ending up in shelters. I also admire your dedication to find great homes and not take financial compensation for them, even to reimburse yourself for your expenses.

I will say that I'm not a huge fan of speutering puppies too young. Shelters around here will do it as soon as they're big enough to live thru the surgery, which is really a bad policy, IMO. I think a pup should be at least 6mo before speuter, but preferably a little older. After the first heat is good for a female, around the same time for the males I guess. 

So now I'm assuming that you're keeping the pups for ~6mo minimum. Again, still admiring your dedication here. I'm just wondering if 6mo old puppies will be as adoptable as 8wk old ones. I got Kit around 6mo, and I will probably always prefer young-ish shelter dogs. But I'm probably in the minority there. 

I really like what you said about the size of the full-grown dogs. People can look at Gypsy and get an idea, but they need to understand that she could have mated with any (or all!) of the Rovers, Spots, and Cujos in the neighborhood, so there's no way to predict possible size of the pups. Health and temperament, either for that matter. 

I'm not sure if you were around for the Pumpkin Pie Litter that nekomi whelped a while back. If not, she purchased a dog that she didn't know was preggers and then saw the whole thing thru. If you missed it, look it up - you might find some tips and suggestions there, especially about adopting them out to great homes. She might even be willing to share her adoption application with you! All of this is a long ways off, though, so probably not your biggest concern right now.

Good luck! And thanks for sharing the birth.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> I will say that I'm not a huge fan of speutering puppies too young. Shelters around here will do it as soon as they're big enough to live thru the surgery, which is really a bad policy, IMO. I think a pup should be at least 6mo before speuter, but preferably a little older. After the first heat is good for a female, around the same time for the males I guess.
> 
> So now I'm assuming that you're keeping the pups for ~6mo minimum. Again, still admiring your dedication here. I'm just wondering if 6mo old puppies will be as adoptable as 8wk old ones. I got Kit around 6mo, and I will probably always prefer young-ish shelter dogs. But I'm probably in the minority there.


While I agree in general that it is better to wait till the dogs are a little older, I think that if one cannot ABSOLUTELY guarantee that every single pup will be s/n by their new owners AND prevented from breeding until then, it is a reasonable "risk" to take. Maybe 10-12 weeks instead of 8 like the shelters will do it at but like everything, it is a trade-off and considering where they are located, the outlook wouldn't be too good for another generation of puppies to end up in a shelter.

That said, if your income is low-moderate, there are spay and neuter clinics in most areas a few times a year that give a discount. One of my friends found 4 kittens at her farm and was able to get each of them s/n for $50 apiece. If your income is just over the limit, it might be worth chatting up the local humane society etc and ask if they can arrange for the dogs to go to the vet they use at their (generally) discounted price (which you'd then pay that discounted price).


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

One way that sometimes works is to ask a reasonable price for the puppy and offer a refund when they are spayed or neutered and put a time they must be done by. It does not guarantee it but at least the people cannot say they could not afford to get it done.


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

Kyllobernese said:


> One way that sometimes works is to ask a reasonable price for the puppy and offer a refund when they are spayed or neutered and put a time they must be done by. It does not guarantee it but at least the people cannot say they could not afford to get it done.


or, make the adoption fee proof of a prepaid s/n appt for, say, 6 months from time of adoption (pup ruffly 8 mo old)

also, take into consideration, the pups may be HW +, too.....


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

tirluc said:


> also, take into consideration, the pups may be HW +, too.....


Is that medically possible? I thought that mosquitoes were the required intermediary because of how the heartworms' life cycle works, and that it's not possible for a dog to have adult heartworms before 6 months of age. 

They might test positive (depending what kind of test is used) due to Gypsy's antibodies, but I don't think they could actually have heartworms.

I have to say I'm not a fan of spay/neuter contracts, even pre-paid appointments can be blown off. If you want something done, you have to do it yourself. . .maybe I'm just not trusting enough but that's not a risk I'd take.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

PandaCakes said:


> I've thought about this a lot. I'm actually surprised by the amount of people that assume they can have a puppy because I took in a pregnant stray and surely I don't really want them all. (...)


I think your plan to only adopt to friends of friends and such is a good idea. You'd be able to easily follow up on them for sure. I don't know how many people you know though... you might run out of people to ask. O_O

If it comes to having to go beyond friends of friends, one reason rescuers will charge a re-homing fee is that even if it's just $50 you'll turn away people that want a freebie just because it's free. If the dog is highly adoptable (super cute), a higher fee might be put in place to protect from impulse buyers.



PandaCakes said:


> Lady, please. When I was a kid I used to go to fast-food places and mix every soda they had on the fountain into one drink. 7-Up, Root Beer, Hi-C (I know, disgusting.)


Aw man I used to do that too! XD


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## Polywoggy (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard it said that you should always charge at least $100 for a dog. Are people really trained to pose as loving and responsible and then take free dogs to research labs? I would like to think this is Urban Myth- but some people are really warped.
Larger dogs can also be picked up free and used for fighting.
I'm quite low income and would pay more than that for a dog- dogs are highest priority to me after rent and food.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you're posting ads, I do think that listing an asking price of at least $100 is a good way to weed out some of the undesirables. If you're giving the pups to well-screened homes, especially people you know, you can waive the fee if you want. But any ad for "free puppies!" will probably attract the wrong people.

Bunchers do like to answer "free pet" ads. I'm sure some pose as nice pet owners to get the animals. . .but mostly they take those whose owners don't care what kind of home they go to--"oh you want the whole litter? Sure, take them!", no faking necessary.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

I also heard $100 is the minimum. I don't know what a bait or research dog is worth, but charging more than that would be a good deterrent as no profit can be made.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I'm hoping this doesn't come off as critical - it isn't meant to be.
> 
> I absolutely understand your desire to keep these pups from being strays or ending up in shelters. I also admire your dedication to find great homes and not take financial compensation for them, even to reimburse yourself for your expenses.
> 
> ...


I really have no qualms about waiting 6 months if I have to, but I guess I'll see how the next few weeks go. In the time that I have them, I do hope to housebreak/socialize them so that they can more than make up for their questionable pedigree with charm, cuteness and convenience.



Willowy said:


> I have to say I'm not a fan of spay/neuter contracts, even pre-paid appointments can be blown off. If you want something done, you have to do it yourself. . .maybe I'm just not trusting enough but that's not a risk I'd take.


My thoughts exactly. And it's not that I assume people will purposefulyl blow me off, but things come up and owners get sidetracked, and most people are surprised by how young females can get pregnant.

And from what I read, it's not really possible for the pups to have HW simply because Gypsy does.



Polywoggy said:


> I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard it said that you should always charge at least $100 for a dog. Are people really trained to pose as loving and responsible and then take free dogs to research labs? I would like to think this is Urban Myth- but some people are really warped.
> Larger dogs can also be picked up free and used for fighting.
> I'm quite low income and would pay more than that for a dog- dogs are highest priority to me after rent and food.


I was hoping to avoid this by only adopting to people I know. I'd much rather they spend their $100 on a few bags of good dog food or heartworm preventative... I want these puppies going to someone who plans on taking them to a vet regularly, and generally doing everything that responsible dog owners due, i.e. preventatives, vaccines, dental care, good nutrition, training. $100 wouldn't convince me that a stranger can take care of a dog. If Panda truly is a Bearded Collie, they are expensive dogs, and pretty rare in my area. At some point somebody paid a lot of money for her, and she ended up being dumped off. Lots of rescues are purebred dogs, and they still end up in shelters because of negligence or indifference.

Also, I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I will ask for vet references if the people own other dogs. Vacciness are required on a regular basis, and anybody with a dog should be able to provide that without a problem.

More pictures of the pups...

This is Bravo, our only little boy









Delta, or as I affectionately call her "Chunk", firstborn









India, 2nd born (she looks like a little black and white kitten)









All the pups with mom (from left to right: India, Juliet, Delta, Bravo, Tango)


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## Nerobella (May 23, 2011)

They're all so beautiful  I'm glad everything seems to have gone well.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I think it would be very hard on you as well as the pups to keep them till they are six months old. Unless you did a lot of individual things with them they would bond with each other and have a harder time settling into a new home on their own. It is one thing to raise a single pup and most people advise you not to get two at a time, five would be almost impossible.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

PandaCakes said:


> This is Bravo, our only little boy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE little puppy feet!!!!! So cute!!!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Panda cakes, I know this has like... Nothing to do with the topic, but I had a huge LOL about the suicide because I used to do that too lol... Except the Hi C when I was doing sodas, except sprite, which goes well with pink lemonade or Hi C fruit punch.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Panda cakes, I know this has like... Nothing to do with the topic, but I had a huge LOL about the suicide because I used to do that too lol... Except the Hi C when I was doing sodas, except sprite, which goes well with pink lemonade or Hi C fruit punch.


Another off topic, I love love love sprite with pink lemonade, also cherry/strawberry juice/syrup (aka Shirley Temple).

Back on topic, the the puppies are looking great and mom seems to be doing well. Seems like you have two reds, and two blacks and a Sable.


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Another off topic, I love love love sprite with pink lemonade, also cherry/strawberry juice/syrup (aka Shirley Temple).
> 
> Back on topic, the the puppies are looking great and mom seems to be doing well. Seems like you have two reds, and two blacks and a Sable.


Two are black, in fact they seem identical. They have the exact same white marking on the same parts of their bodies... white bellies, right feet, very tip of tail. Twins, maybe?  Delta and Juliet seem to be about the same color, both are that sable color with the black streak down their back, but Delta (aka Chunk) has a white slash across her shoulder. But the little boy definitely seems red. He's the runt fo the litter, and he nurses the weirdest way. He gets his neck into and looks like a chicken pecking... I'm not sure if that's just his cute quirk or indicative of a problem? He's not the best at finding nipples, even when I try to put him on one, but he does seem to be eating well.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Keeping a litter of puppies for 6 months is a long time and a lot of money! I would have to charge about $100 just to offset my costs a little. You're going to have a much harder time finding homes for 6 month old puppies as opposed to 8 week old puppies. Friends and family always plan to take a puppy, but disappear when the time comes.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

OMG they are sooooooo cute!!!! KEEP POSTING PICS!!!!!


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## Deeken (Feb 14, 2011)

They are super gorgeous. 

I have to say, I would not want to see them kept for 6 months together. I would worry that it would cause them to bond with each other and not to bond with humans. Its recommended not to get two puppies at the same time due to the difficulty in raising them to properly bond with people and not with each other. I can't imagine it would be possible to properly raise 5... Honestly, if you're adopting them to friends or family that you see regularly, I would adopt them out between 8 and 12 weeks on spay or neuter contracts if you trust the adopter. If not or if you're not in a position to closely follow up with the puppy, I would have paediatric spay/neuters done and still adopt them out at 8 - 12 weeks. I'm not trying to be a debbie downer. You've done a great thing by taking Gypsy in and making sure her babies all get great homes. I just want to see these pups get a great outcome.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Just have to say that I LOVE the names!!


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## PandaCakes (Sep 25, 2009)

Deeken said:


> They are super gorgeous.
> 
> I have to say, I would not want to see them kept for 6 months together. I would worry that it would cause them to bond with each other and not to bond with humans. Its recommended not to get two puppies at the same time due to the difficulty in raising them to properly bond with people and not with each other. I can't imagine it would be possible to properly raise 5... Honestly, if you're adopting them to friends or family that you see regularly, I would adopt them out between 8 and 12 weeks on spay or neuter contracts if you trust the adopter. If not or if you're not in a position to closely follow up with the puppy, I would have paediatric spay/neuters done and still adopt them out at 8 - 12 weeks. I'm not trying to be a debbie downer. You've done a great thing by taking Gypsy in and making sure her babies all get great homes. I just want to see these pups get a great outcome.


My main objective is to have them spayed/neutered before they are adopted out. I wasn't sure if it was safe to do that before 6 months, but that's my primary goal.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

PandaCakes said:


> My main objective is to have them spayed/neutered before they are adopted out. I wasn't sure if it was safe to do that before 6 months, but that's my primary goal.


While there are some debated issues with early spay/neuter, I would never call it "unsafe"-- as in, the puppies will survive it and be generally fine. A large number of shelter dogs are speutered at 8 weeks and go on to be happy, healthy dogs. Now, if I was buying a dog from a breeder or if this was in some situation where you could absolutely trust the dogs to be speutered and/or never bred, I would opt to speuter around 1 year old. But that is not the situation, and if it is a choice between speutering the dogs earlier than you'd prefer or keeping the dogs until 6 months and having them end up with major problems bonding with humans...well I absolutely believe earlier speuter is a healthier choice for the pups. That isn't even considering the fact that they will be much easier to find homes for at 8-10 weeks than at 6 months old.


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## Deeken (Feb 14, 2011)

PandaCakes said:


> My main objective is to have them spayed/neutered before they are adopted out. I wasn't sure if it was safe to do that before 6 months, but that's my primary goal.


You can definitely have them speutered before 6 months. At the shelter, we spay/neuter around 8 weeks. And I truly commend you for being so responsible with them. You've been a blessing to Gypsy and her babies!


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

I think since Gypsy is a smaller breed of dog, it's much less of a big deal to spay/neuter the puppies early than it would be if she was a giant breed. If these puppies were from a giant breed, there might be a significant risk of hip and elbow displasia developing, but it's not as much of a concern for smaller breeds. And personally, I think the risk associated with letting the puppies go to their new homes intact would be greater than the risks posed by early spaying and neutering in this particular situation. If you can, I'd try to keep them for 10-12 weeks before altering them, though.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Panda-How are the puppies?


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## AngelandShifusHuman (Jun 16, 2010)

Any new pup pics??


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