# FRUSTRATED, my dog won't stop itching



## Big Bear (Jan 18, 2009)

What can I do? It's been 2 years already and he's getting worse every day. I know he has food and environmental allergies but I'm starting to doubt that it's the main issue. Tried several different foods and shampoos with no change. He's been on a lot of meds that didn't work. I would convince myself that some of them worked but they just made him drowsy and he continued to itch. He's on amitriptyline now with absolutely no difference. (I think the vet wanted me to take them because they think something is wrong with me.) One thing I know I haven't tried is some kind of nose mask so he doesn't inhale the grass and tree spores.

He's always itching, all day every day. It went from scratching to licking and biting. He licks himself raw and his hair looks like he just got out of the shower. He bites patches of hair out and poops full clumps of hair. It looks like someone just pulling hair out of their but it's with his teeth. Then he gnaws the little stubs off when it starts growing back. He scratches until he whines but still keeps scratching. I've seen spots of blood on the floor and walls from all of this and sometimes he gets infections from it. The Dr. thought it might be separation anxiety but I'm usually home all day. Whenever I leave for more than 2 hours he always has a huge spot of hair missing because I'm not there to stop him. The only way I can stop him is with an e-collar but he lays in the same spot and looks dazed for hours until I take it off. As soon as I take it off he goes right back to licking. Sometimes he acts like he wants the e-collar on so he can take a break to relax.

I've given him medicated baths prescribed by the Dr. and he licks during the bath and as soon as I'm done. He usually stinks within a day because he's covered in saliva. Last week he started smelling fishy. He gets the fish oil capsules but I doubt that's why he smells fishy.

He'll stop eating, stop playing, and stop in the middle of a walk just to scratch and lick. He doesn't even sleep during the night like he used to. I can hear him whining and bumping into the walls from scratching and licking himself. The licking sounds like someone smacking gum with their mouth open while holding a microphone. The Dr. said it might have started with his allergies but now he's doing it just for endorphins. That's why he's on amitriptyline. She say's that he should've responded to at least one of the other meds he was on.

He doesn't like to be touched either unless he initiates it. Even then he acts like humans are weird. He's okay with you petting his stomach and chest but does't want you stop. He also has a thing about bugs. He won't eat or play until he finds it and then he has to eat it. If he can't reach it he just backs into a corner and won't move until I find it. The amitriptyline was supposed to help all this too but it didn't do anything. He's going back to the vet this week, whenever the Dr. is in, because he's starting to get weird spots on him. Not sure if it's a reaction to the meds or just my paranoia. His urine smelled strong today too, don't know if it's from the meds or because he's not drinking enough water. Lately, I have to tell him to drink some water and watch him to make sure he does. If I don't, he just sits there and scratch and lick. If he sees me watching he just goes around a corner and wait a few seconds then runs back like he really drunk some water. Sometimes I have to walk him to the water bucket and stand there with him watching me. If I leave he leaves, if I stay he drinks the water. I'm not 100% sure he's thirsty, I just go by his actions based on his previous routines and habits. I assume I'm right because he will drink some water if he actually gets to the bucket.

Maybe this is just a rant but I will appreicate any insight, thoughts, suggestions or recommedations. I refuse to give up. I know there's something out there to help him but just can't seem to find it.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

What foods have you tried? What are you currently feeding?


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## Bird-Dog (Dec 24, 2008)

If he doesn't itch with an e-collar on then for heaven's sake leave it on! He might be mopey but consider it tough love. Keep trying to play with him while it's on and leave it on when you take him for his daily walks/runs.

Food allergies are not the issue, correct? You are avoiding the foods he's allergic to? So that leaves environmental. What exactly is he allergic to and how have you been mitigating exposure?

Be sure not to over bathe. Medicated shampoos (for the open sores) notwithstanding, too much bathing with make most skin conditions worse because you are stripping the natural oils and dry skin itches. A healthy dog should not smell unless they get into something particularly nasty and can go weeks if not months without a bath.

How much exercise does he get daily? Exercise can reduce anxiety levels.

How long has he been on amitriptyline? And how long did your vet say it would take to show a change?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

If it's an option, see if you can get a referral to a veterinary dermatologist for more options such as allergy testing and allergy shots. Pip has environmental allergies and allergy shots help him a lot.


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## mustlovedogs123 (Mar 23, 2011)

what foods and shampoos have you tried?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

I'd be looking for a good vet dermatologist. alternately, I would also see if there is a good holistic vet in the area. Sometimes I find they approach things from some a different angle that it works. As to the elizabethan collar (assuming that's the ecollar you mean - it's so confusing that two things that are so different are called the same thing) there are new alternatives that aren't as uncomfortable for the dog as hard plastic http://www.ryanspet.com/search.aspx?criteria=soft collar&sort1=&sort2=


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

mustlovedogs123 said:


> what foods and shampoos have you tried?


This is important to know...waiting for the OP to respond.

Have you tried Taste of the Wild high Prairie?

Have you tried Microtek anti itch shampoo?

Has the dog had his thyroid tested?

Do you have Oleanders in your yard/where he's walked?

Have you tried putting a t-shirt on him before taking him out, and removing it when he comes inside?

Have you tried keeping him off grass as much as possible?

Has the vet done a skin scraping?


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## Big Bear (Jan 18, 2009)

I can't remember the names of all of the foods. I know them more by sight but I've tried Taste of the Wild, Pedigree, Purina, Blue Buffalo, Solid Gold, and RAW. I didn't see any differences between any of the foods that's why I don't think it's from the food. I haven't been able to find anything, besides RAW, that's doesn't have at least one ingredient he's allergic to.

Environmental allergies are grasses and trees. I can't keep him totally away from it because he has to go outside to poop and walk. I had a lot of trees removed from the yard but there's plenty more in the neighbors' yards. I put shirts on him before he went out and removed them and wiped him down when came back in. Didn't see any changes but I only did it for 1.5 weeks. He doesn't care to be touched and gets annoyed when I put them on or remove them. He's fine with it once it's on and will wear them all day so. I'm trying to find something that I can snap on and off so it won't be a hassle for him.

The medicated shampoos are Vet Solutions Universal Medicated Shampoo and Hylyt. I wait a minimum of two weeks between baths but it's usually longer. I bathe him to remove the odor when it gets too bad or to help remove loose scabs and skin flakes.

He gets more mental exercise than physical exercise. His jogs/walks are usually 25 minutes each. They used to be longer but he gets overheated and starts panting heavily. Some of his meds also require limited sun exposure.

He's been on amitriptyline for 4 weeks. Dr. said to wait 3 weeks before making a decision. He had an allergy test and they offered a series of steroid shots. I think it was for 9-12 months and they were supposed to desensitize him. At that time, he was less than a year old and I didn't want him to have any growth/health problems from the steroid. Plus there was no guarantee that it would work. I tried to get the cortisone shots after he was a year old but I have been declined several times by two Drs. Both said they prefer steroid pills because he can stop taking them or reduce the dosage if he has side effects. With the shots we would have to live with the side effects until the shots wear off. I told one Dr. that I would sign paperwork to go ahead with the shots but she said it's too dangerous because he's over 100 lbs. and if it caused behavior problems I wouldn't be able to stop him. Haven't tried a holistic vet so I'll look into that.

The e-collar is the Elizabethan collar. I used the hard plastic but I'll try the soft one. I think he doesn't like it because it limits his sight. I noticed that on the rare occasion that he does move the collar bumps into things which bumps the collar back into him then he just flops. I can leave the e-collar on all day but he won't pee or poop with it on. He just holds everything in. I don't want him to get constipated or have an accident on himself because he refuses to move. I assume he's smart enough not to let it get that far. I've tried giving him treats while the e-collar is on but he acts like I'm weird and won't touch the treat. If I put it in his mouth he still won't chew it. His actions show that he's afraid of it but I really don't think he is because sometimes it looks like he tries to put it on himself.

Yes, I tried Taste of the Wild high Prairie. Have you noticed it having a strong burnt odor lately? I've only found it at a feed store and the last 2 bags I bought smelled funny. They cut open 3 bags for me and they all smelled funny.

Haven't tried Microtek anti itch shampoo, I will try to get some.

His thyroid hasn't been tested recently. I think it was done when he did the allergy test.

I don't have Oleanders in my yard or the neighbors'. The closest things around are orange, lemon, oak, pine, and I think a willow tree. There may be one on the walk. I remember seeing small pink flowers. Can't remember if it was a tree or shrub. It's raining now but I'll go take a look when the weather clears.

Yes, tried avoiding the grass. He usually follows the same sandy dirt path. Most of the grass was dug up and it's growing back in patches now. No one on our street has used a mower in months because the grass isn't growing that fast. When I do cut the grass, I cut the front and back on different days so he has a semi-safe place when he goes outside. I was told it's the spores causing a reaction and not the grass and tree itself. So he doesn't have to actually touch it because it's inhaled.

What is the skin scrape for? I think it was done because they wanted to rule out fleas and mange.

*Allergy Test Results:
Food-wheat, rice, potato, carrots, rabbit, milk, alfalfa
Environment-trees (bluegrass/ june grass, orchard, bermuda, redtop, bahhia), weeds (pigweed/ careless weed, lamb's quarters, english plantain, baccharis), trees (palm, privet, hackberry, willow, elm), fungi (alternaria, cladosporium, smut mix, stemphylium, fusarium), housedust mites
Indoor- cotton


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## mustlovedogs123 (Mar 23, 2011)

My dog has a skin condition don't quite know what it is assuming allergies but mt vet never really did any tests he wanted to wait and see what the change of food will do. 
I have been using Tropiclean oatmeal anti-itch formula, it is all natural and can be used every day if NEEDED. It has been working well for my dog.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

I'd seek a veterinary dermatologist as suggested above. Hyposensitization shots can work wonders in dogs. However, if your dog has concurrent bacterial skin infections (which seems very likely given the history you provided then you can't really evaluate any therapy fairly. Also, if he does have those infections then the last thing you want to do is give him any steroids as they'll just make it worse. You always have to correct the secondary problems before you can get rid of the underlying causes. The suggestions above (while they can be helpful) may not do anything for an infection - long term systemic antibiotics are usually indicated and often require culture and susceptibility testing to determine the type and dosage of antibiotics you need.


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## Big Bear (Jan 18, 2009)

Not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. Is the itching caused by a skin infection and not related to the allergies? Or is it a combination of both? I'm not sure I'm understanding this. The Dr. did mention a dermatologist briefly at the last visit but really didn't suggest it. She said it while she was thinking out loud.

The infections I mentioned earlier was when he kept licking and pulling hair. I would put a bandage and some cream on it but he kept getting them off. They eventually turned into hotspots. He was put on antibiotics for the hot spots twice. Most of the time I can keep it under control and he doesn't need antibiotics. Not sure if that's still considered a skin infection or just a result of not keeping the wound clean.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

He may WELL have a secondary skin infection (bacterial or Fungal) that is making the itching worse. This is often the case with allergies such as you're describing, I've had the same trouble with a foster Bulldog I had in my home for a year. 

Try training him to use doggy shoes to minimize contact when he's walking in the yard. 

I also think he needs to see a veterinary Dermatologist, they are much better prepared to treat your dog and help him get comfortable. 

Oh and as to diet, it sometimes takes WEEKS to get a dog detoxed once you change diet, as many allergies as he has, I'd stick to either raw or home cooked so you can control the ingredients. Keep it to ONE protien at a time, and perhaps eliminate the carbs altogether (dogs doen't really need them anyhow).


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Big Bear said:


> Not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. Is the itching caused by a skin infection and not related to the allergies? Or is it a combination of both? I'm not sure I'm understanding this. The Dr. did mention a dermatologist briefly at the last visit but really didn't suggest it. She said it while she was thinking out loud.
> 
> The infections I mentioned earlier was when he kept licking and pulling hair. I would put a bandage and some cream on it but he kept getting them off. They eventually turned into hotspots. He was put on antibiotics for the hot spots twice. Most of the time I can keep it under control and he doesn't need antibiotics. Not sure if that's still considered a skin infection or just a result of not keeping the wound clean.


I know it can be a little confusing. With allergies, their itchyness is primarily caused by the allergen (whatever that happens to be) itself. Between the changes in the skin, the constant licking (creating a nice moist environment), and other factors, yeast and/or bacteria are permitted to grow (often you get both) and that makes the dog even more itchy. At times, a bandage and cream simply aren't enough to control these situations and thus a prescription med is often needed. As I mentioned, the worse thing you can do is dish out a bunch of steroids while those infections are going on. It will only make them worse. 

There are skin conditions that are not itchy but cause the skin to look terrible. They can confuse people when they too have concurrent bacterial/fungal infections because those maek the dog uncomfortable. However, these aren't as common as allergies mentioned above and it seems from your history you provided that your dog does in fact have allergies.

Clear as mud?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

This is why I hate skin problems.


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## Big Bear (Jan 18, 2009)

Definitely clear as mud but I get the gist of it.

There's only one veterinary dermatologist kinda local so I'll have to take a chance that they're good. Anyone know how much I can expect to pay?

I wanted to take him back to the current Dr. to get a checkup since starting the current meds and show them the weird spots that are popping up. I think it's something from the amitriptyline. Should I just go straight to the dermatologist and let them look at it, to save a few dollars, or just let the current Dr. look at them since she prescribed the meds?


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

I am not real familiar with dermatologists outside of academia world. And even then the price varies with location. You'll have to get a referral from your vet, just call him and ask him for it if that's what you want.



sassafras said:


> This is why I hate skin problems.


LOL. I am looking into a rotating internship that includes a derm unit and possibly a derm residency. Not sure yet. Guess I just like the punishment?


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## Big Bear (Jan 18, 2009)

There aren't any oleanders in the area.

Spoke with the dermatologist. They said skin problems are harder to treat and can take over a year to notice anything if it works. Also suggested I go back to RAW.

Took him back to the vet. They put him back on antibiotics and increased the dosage. Found out they had been dosing him according to his puppy weight even though he was weighed again on every visit. I asked about the Microtek shampoo. Dr. said she hasn't heard of it but suggested Keratolux. I'm still trying to get some Microtek.

He has not had his throids tested. While reading online I saw this article, http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/systemic_yeast_mini_course.htm, and asked for a T3 and T4 test. They were willing to do 'their' thyroid test in the beginning, but not the T3 and T4. Eventually she suggested doing just the T4 and free T4 then do the T3 depending on the results. She doesn't think it's thyroid related because everything started when he was a puppy. They also said there's a possibility it could be yeast but he doesn't have the symptoms. He definitely doesn't look like the dog in the article. She also suggested going back to RAW. He's also being weaned off the amitriptyline.

Not sure what's next but he'll be going back to RAW. Also looking into holistic vets. I'm saving up for the dermatologist just in case we decide to go.

Thanks Everyone


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Thyroid can start as a puppy, I've seen borderline low in dogs as young as 9 Months. Questions 
to *Dr*. Jean *Dodds* of HEMOPET on Hypothyroidism
*Canine 
Thyroid Testing, Dr Jean Dodds, Canine Food 
...*


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## La Mer (Apr 3, 2011)

*Make sure your vet tests for yeast.*

Veterinary dermatologists can be reasonably priced to very expensive, it all depends on what your dog needs. I have taken my dog to one and other than running special tests, they did not do anything different than the primary vet.

If you have to, I would suggest taking them to a dermatologist for tests just to see what is going on and from there your primary vet could take action.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

Poor little pup, I can relate. 

I had a senior lab that itched incessantly for a while. The vet tried everything, but nothing worked. He was 17 so I hesitated to use many drugs.

IMO< using an E collar is not fair to the dog. If he truly itches, it is best to find the source rather than to keep him from scratching.

We finally used the Microtek Shampoo along with the spray, (you can get it at most tack shops) along with Cedarcide spray. When he went outside, I put a t-shirt on him to keep grasses, bugs, etc off him as much as possible. I sprayed his bed with Cedarcide as well. I used diatomaceous earth in his food and fish oil. 

After 3 weeks, he totally stopped itching. I am not sure which of the remedies worked, or if it was the whole regimen, but whatever it was, I will always have it on hand.

Each dog has different issues ,but possibly one of the remedies I used can help.


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## Big Bear (Jan 18, 2009)

***UPDATE*** He has gotten a little bit better. I can take the collar off for most of the day as long as I am home.

I avoided the vet and dermatologist and switched him back to RAW. Stopped giving him all the oral meds prescribed by the vet, after discussing it with the Dr. first. Reduced his outdoor exposure to twice a day. That was his own decision, not mine. Bathe him as needed with Dawn and the vet prescibed shampoo.

I haven't used the Microtek or cedarcide. I still plan to use those products but the semi-local store burned down and haven't replaced it yet. 

I saw a couple of dots on him once during a bath and realized they were fleas. Now I'm wondering if he's always had them or if they came from next door because the neighbor and all of his dogs moved away. I checked him often and he was checked several times at the vet but nobody ever found any fleas on him or saw any evidence of fleas until now. I've been dusting him and the yard with diatomaceous earth but haven't seen any obvious results. Not quite sure about adding it to his food yet. I'm considering using Capstar to make sure there are no fleas on him but I really don't want to use any chemicals. I'll probably end up trying it so I can rule out fleas being the culprit. I know that ant, gnat, and mosquito bites causes severe itching so it may be flea dematitis and that only takes one flea.

Pasofino, I agree that it is not fair for him to wear the e-collar all day if he has a legitimate itch. Personally, I think it is mental abuse but the physical damage that he does to himself seems far worse. I see the affect the collar has on him but once it's off he reverts back to normal. Now I'm trying to find a balance because sometimes I think he's going to eat himself when he's only trying to clean himself or scratch a regular itch.


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