# Best method for controlling negative dog behavior



## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

Can anyone point me towards a reliable information source regarding mild aggression? I have had my latest dog about 5 months. He is a pound pup and he was very malnourished, and I don't think he had any social skills. He's fat and healthy now, but all of a sudden, he has decided he doesn't want my oldest daughter touching him. He gives her a warning growl when she tries. He seems to give her mixed signals. He acts like he wants attention at first. I do not want to punish him for warning her(I'm afraid he'd bite without warning instead), but I'd like this behavior to stop. It's scary to have a 110+ pound dog decide he doesn't like you anymore. He's perfectly fine with me. The only other place he exhibits such behavior is the vet office. As far as I know, my daughter hasn't intentionally done anything to cause this behavior. She may have accidentally triggered it. She's now afraid to be alone with him, and I'm afraid her anxiety is feeding it. I don't blame her though. He hasn't come after her aggressively, but he reacts negatively when she approaches him. I've told her to ignore him for the time being, until I figure this out. I don't have a lot of options for one on one training with a dog trainer. If anyone has any web suggestions, I'd appreciate it. I found one called dogproblems.com, but I'm not sure if it's legit. If there are opinions out there on that site, I'd love to her them.
Thanks. 
PS-I tried to post another version of this question, and I got a message about having to be reviewed by an admistrator. If they both show up, I apologize,


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

When there are kids and aggression involved it's always best to find a behaviourist come see the problem first hand and work directly with you to develop a solution. Until then I would keep him separated from your daughter.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> When there are kids and aggression involved it's always best to find a behaviourist come see the problem first hand and work directly with you to develop a solution. Until then I would keep him separated from your daughter.


This ^^^ If not a credentialed behaviorist, then someone _very, very_ knowledgeable about dog body language. Perhaps someone certified as a behavior consultant through CPDT or similar organization.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

She isn't a child, she's 24. Sorry I didn't clarify that originally. But still, it is not a good situation. He is not sleeping in the house-he has a heated garage-since she is a night owl and I don't leave her alone in the house with him.


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

Professional help


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

I took a look at that dogproblems site, stay far, far away. It's nothing but dominance/alpha negative corrections garbage, and that's the last thing you want here. Look for a professional that uses positive methods, no dominance/alpha garbage.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

am glad she is older  totally was feeling awful for you if she had been a tot or tween... I would turn the tables around on who controls the situation.. right now the dog does... I would tell your daughter when the dogs acts like he wants interaction.. for her to walk away and have the pup follow her , to her space and not go into his space where he changes his mind.. It's weird, lots of dogs like to be the approch-ie and not the one being approached.. If anything don't play into his current game of inviting her, then rejecting. her... If the dog wants interaction,, then move them out of the current space to follow to another space.. and then just drop a treat and walk off... avoid reaching for the dog, staring the dog down... to start... but always make it on your daughters terms of interaction to follow her... and the rest of the time for now ignore him and her go on her own business doing her own thing.. then you can build up to follow me sit,, drop treats and progress to coming to take the treat from your hand instead of reaching towards the dog to give the treat.. Your controlling it, but the dog is making the effort instead of rejecting yours.. if that makes sense


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

The dog sounds like it's fearful.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

cmoorewv said:


> She isn't a child, she's 24. Sorry I didn't clarify that originally. But still, it is not a good situation. He is not sleeping in the house-he has a heated garage-since she is a night owl and I don't leave her alone in the house with him.


I still recommend a professional trainer or behaviorist. He's a big dog - I'd be terrified.

ETA: You may be able to find someone to give an initial assessment, training protocol, and then offer phone support (depending, of course, on the assessment). It needn't be prohibitively expensive or a huge commitment for weekly sessions with the consultant as I know it can be difficult to find professionals in less populated areas.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

cookieface said:


> I still recommend a professional trainer or behaviorist. He's a big dog - I'd be terrified.


Agreed. Even a medium-sized dog can do a lot of damage if they want to, never mind one 100+lbs.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

will also add put the pup on a restrictive house schedule.. give him crate time and baby gate area time.. don't let him own the entire house... work him into a constructive daily schedule between the crate and a larger but defined boundary area.. They have to be happy areas full of rewards for being there.. going in to a crate or a space means they there waiting for something good after wards for waiting their turn... eating, potty break, grooming, toy, treat, walk, quick vehicle ride to the store.. or even a fun NO CORRECTION ob skill session... If a dog don't know his place or job in the house, show him what it is and reward him learning how to do his job and be in his place... 

I don't disagree with the others in finding a behaviorist.... but you can control you environment that it is your daughters house first and she has free movement without fear , control your own behaviors that are known to provoke the poor situations and get a dog to follow you (willing) in what you need of him, that is better then you chasing,forcing him into behaviors that he will do the opposite of willing into pushing back against it...


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

PatriciafromCO said:


> will also add put the pup on a restrictive house schedule.. give him crate time and baby gate area time.. don't let him own the entire house... work him into a constructive daily schedule between the crate and a larger but defined boundary area.. They have to be happy areas full of rewards for being there.. going in to a crate or a space means they there waiting for something good after wards for waiting their turn... eating, potty break, grooming, toy, treat, walk, quick vehicle ride to the store.. or even a fun NO CORRECTION ob skill session... If a dog don't know his place or job in the house, show him what it is and reward him learning how to do his job and be in his place...
> 
> I don't disagree with the others in finding a behaviorist.... but you can control you environment that it is your daughters house first and she has free movement without fear , control your own behaviors that are known to provoke the poor situations and get a dog to follow you (willing) in what you need of him, that is better then you chasing,forcing him into behaviors that he will do the opposite of willing into pushing back against it...


Patricia has a point. Dogs naturally push when we pull, it's just how they are. So when you chase a dog, you may well get an attack, when you corner a dog, you're guaranteeing at least a warning snap, even from the most placid of dogs. Constantly pushing the dog to take affection can result in dog that wants nothing to do with you.

So, yes, she should ignore the dog, but also,

1. Take the dog to the vet. It's possible he's hurt, sick or has a low thyroid. Vision or hearing problems can lead to aggression, too, if the dog gets surprised by someone approaching him.

2. She should throw treats to him, but not offer them. Just toss something really good his way, really good, like cheese or hot dog or chicken. This should be done as she passes by, no trying to get him to approach her, no stopping and staring at him, just "I'm walking away, here's yummy goodness."

3. How much exercise is this dog getting? How much mental stimulation? Is he being punished regularly? Underexercised, bored dogs are trouble. Dogs who are regularly punished can become fearful aggressive not just at the person punishing them, but at anyone.

4. Learn the signs of stress that precede growling. Remember, growling isn't negative behavior, it's the last attempt of a mute animal to say, "Hey, I'm uncomfortable with what you're doing, I need it to stop." You need your dog to growl, because if you ignore all the other signs, and punish growling, you end up with a dog who bites any time he thinks you might do something that makes him stressed.

Here's a chart:


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Good advice from Patricia and Amaryllis.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

Amaryllis said:


> Patricia has a point. Dogs naturally push when we pull, it's just how they are. So when you chase a dog, you may well get an attack, when you corner a dog, you're guaranteeing at least a warning snap, even from the most placid of dogs. Constantly pushing the dog to take affection can result in dog that wants nothing to do with you.
> 
> So, yes, she should ignore the dog, but also,
> 
> ...


I don't think he has any health problems, but I'll take it under advisement. He's about 2 years old, neutered, and his hearing/vision seem fine. He only has this issue with her. But my youngest daughter (18) will be returning home tomorrow for a few days for Thanksgiving break. Hank hasn't seen her in 3 months, so I'm interested in his reaction to her. Danielle (oldest daughter) seems to think that Hank may be guarding me and my husband and that's why he's growling at her. She's always afraid he is "watching" her. I'm not totally sure that's the case, but it could be. The first time he growled at her, he had been sleeping outside my door. That was the first and last night he slept with me. Last night, I had her go with me to put him to bed, with a handful of treats. He sat on her command three times and she threw him the treats. No hint of aggression. It mainly seems to be when she leans toward him to pet him that he growls. This is a tricky situation because I'd like him to be suspicious of strangers, but relax when I tell him it's ok. He isn't making that distinction apparently. We have to be able to have the occasional visitor without fear of Hank getting mean or over excited. I'm going to repeat her putting him to bed with the treats for awhile and see if that helps soften his attitude towards her. She's the meekest member of the family, so I need to safely build her confidence where he is concerned. But I will see how he reacts to my other daughter coming in the house. That may dictate how aggressively I deal with him. He's a good dog in every other way-he's submissive and nonchalant with my other three dogs, and my cats. I'll update tomorrow.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

My youngest daughter came and went this weekend without any issues with Hank. I really think that he is sensing fear and anxiety on the part of my oldest daughter and is either bullying her or being made fearful as well. The middle daughter has no issues with him either. (All adult age) I am stymied. The one dog trainer I considered checking into isn't taking appointments until March. I may still call and talk to them anyway. I am unsure of their training style though. I don't think the trainers at petsmart like to deal with problem dogs like he could wind up being. At least where my daughter is concerned. I did find a site that uses Foundation style training but no one local. Any one here experienced with this method? It's kind of vague and my research is limited. All I know is they stress positive reinforcement with gentle correction when needed and specialuze in aggression cases. We are not experiencing full blown aggression but I'd like to keep it from getting there.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Glad things went well with your youngest daughter. 

You're right that chain store trainers are not always equipped to deal with complicated issues. Some are great, but others could possibly do more harm than good. Do you have a link for the site you found? Correction combined with fearfulness or aggression can be a recipe for disaster. 

You might take the advice Amaryllis gave or try some basic counter-conditioning. Sophia Yin and Donna Hill have good videos detailing the process.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

Mike d'Abruzzio is the person who developed Foundation Style dog training method. The site is www.selfhelpdogtraining.com I believe. It's a site where you pay monthly for full access, and if it works I'd pay for it. They have some certified trainers, but none anywhere near me. The one here in my state I was going to contact is K9 precision, I think but I can't remember off the top of my head. If anyone more experienced than I am can check out the website or has firsthand knowledge re FST, I'd like your opinion


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

When I click on the hyperlink in my post it says page not found but if I type it into my browser as selfhelpdogtraining.com
It works. Maybe the www is unnecessary. I will check into the videos you mentioned too. Thanks.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

IMO, you need a C 'P' DT trainer, not a CFDT trainer (CFDT holds no value or credibility, as far as I'm concerned). Or look for a board certified behaviourist.

I've seen the videos and related text articles by the two outfits you mentioned. I'm not impressed with either one.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

Oh boy. I may just be screwed then. Pardon my French. I found one more site that may be promising. Certified pet behaviorists in my state with a person in my city. If you don't mind, check this one out and tell me what you think. 
petbehaviorchange.com
They all seem to have college and graduate degrees in human psychology in some instances, and animal behavior education. Now if I can just come up with the money. It seems pricey, but still reasonable when compared around. Reading the page, I seem to have a number of animals that would benefit. LOL.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Well, it's not the ACVB. But I'd take someone with a PhD over a bunch of knuckleheads with ecollars, hands down.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

cmoorewv said:


> Mike d'Abruzzio is the person who developed Foundation Style dog training method. The site is [B]www.selfhelpdogtraining.com[/B] I believe. It's a site where you pay monthly for full access, and if it works I'd pay for it. They have some certified trainers, but none anywhere near me. The one here in my state I was going to contact is K9 precision, I think but I can't remember off the top of my head. If anyone more experienced than I am can check out the website or has firsthand knowledge re FST, I'd like your opinion


That was site I found when I googled earlier - completely unimpressed with d'Abruzzio.



petpeeve said:


> Well, it's not the ACVB. But I'd take someone with a PhD over a bunch of knuckleheads with ecollars, hands down.


Maxwell is a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, which counts for something to me and veterinary behaviorists aren't readily available in all areas of the the US. But, yeah, someone with a PhD is likely going to be more thoughtful and knowledgeable than (mostly) self-taught trainers.

I would ask for details on this aspect of training specifically,


> We employ all four kinds of behavioral consequences as needed: positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment, and negative punishment. At all times, we operate under the ethical guidelines of the American Psychological Association, the Association for Behavior Analysis International, and the Animal Behavior Society in deciding which strategies are most appropriate and effective while being least intrusive and minimally aversive.


from http://petbehaviorchange.com/faq.htm


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

cookieface said:


> Maxwell is a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, which counts for something to me and veterinary behaviorists aren't readily available in all areas of the the US.


 Definitely agree with this.

Just a note for the op .. "They have some certified trainers, but none anywhere near me." The certification process for general trainers is sometimes dubious at best. The most widely recognized and respected organization is CPDT. Ironic, but you'll see here at the 38 to 51 second mark that even the people in question admit to. http://www.dekhona.com/cartoons-animation-videos/iahhestwnt/Foundation-Style-Dog-Training-video And I say 'ironic' because they've pretty much invented their own certification. Anyone or any trainer can do that, heck if I wanted to I could start up a CppDT program (certified petpeeve dog trainer, lol) then print "graduate" on a universal certificate from Staples, and seal it with a gold stamp .

Bottom line when looking for a _certified_ trainer, go strictly with CPDT. The rest really don't count for diddly, in my opinion.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

No ACVB's anywhere close to me. 
: (
Looks like the applied animal behaviorist is the closest I'm going to come. Now to come up with the money. I really wish I knew what triggered this whole change in Hank. I may never, though.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I would be willing to bet that he is being made anxious by her anxiety, I should know, I have anxiety myself (generalized, not towards anything) and I have sometimes made my own dogs anxious LOL because I also have stress meltdowns due to my ADHD so I need a laid back 'take it in stride' dog. 

I think Patricia has it nailed, have the daughter call him to her, instead of going to him. It also sounds like he is guarding you, if your daughter is around and he starts guarding you, both of you get up and leave the room for a bit, like a minute, then come back in, rinse and repeat.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

My daughter is very timid by nature and not very assertive so I do think he feels that. He was fine around her for four months though. The first time it happened and she got scared has started a pattern of action and reaction. He growls when he plays with the other big dog, too, so it's difficult for her to distinguish between both tones. Plus he grunts. So any little noise he makes worries her. I can't brush it off though, because I've seen him "warn" at the vets office. There are times he just does not want anyone but me touching him. He's also perfectly safe with my other three dogs and my cats. It's just weird.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

some dogs are just weird like that. At least he is nice about it, my other ACD girl would warn, if she didnt like something someone did, she would give them a look, if they missed that, too bad, she was in the the bite, and she bit to mean it, too. 

My current dog is like the best most forgiving dog ever. I still think the get up and leave (in the mean time while you wait for a consultation with an expert) when he does this is the best way, it would be telling him that if you cant be nice then you get no attention at all. Sometimes less is more with dogs, and its a nonconfrontational way to get your point across. 

Also, have the daughter walk by and drop treats for him (without looking at him or bending down) once he is okay with this, then have her crouch a ways from him (without facing him) and toss a treat to him and then leave.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

He just did it again. My middle daughter tried to scratch his butt with a wooden scratcher. Growls and teeth baring. I had to get between them. I think I'm going to go buy a muzzle first off and get him to the vet for an exam and then scramble for the cash for a consultation. Maybe he's been abused and hit with objects. I don't know but I know I can't trust him. He hasn't threatened me, but it may just be a matter of time before I do something inadvertently he doesn't like. I am the only one I'd trust at this moment to not be targeted. Maybe my husband. It seems like he's quick to turn if you scare or threaten him. I really don't want to have to rehome him or worse, but he's huge and capable of doing grave harm if he snaps. He's been with me about 6 months. Maybe he's now feeling comfortable enough to show his true colors. Send me good thoughts.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

It does sound like he's feeding off her anxiety, at least partly. I had a similar issue with my AKK (who is generally wary and anxious around strangers) and a soft-spoken friend who is not used to dogs and was too nervous to even hand him treats. My AKK would be fine with her when she was sitting down, but the second she'd stand up, he'd leap up, raise his hackles, and bark angrily. She wasn't over at my place all that often, so I'd just crate him when she was and everything was fine. I agree that you need to see that pro in your situation; this is much more serious.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

A nervous dog is pretty unpredictable. Normal everyday things all of a sudden is not so pleasant anymore to the dog. 

I have a dog like you describe even though I've had him since he was 4 months old. We do a lot of management and avoidance, but sometimes even everyday things trigger aggression so we redirect him to his crate so he can calm down. Recently, we discovered he has spinal problems and low thyroid so that really adds fuel to the fire and explained a lot of his behaviors. He's always been a nervous dog though and I completely sympathize with you. Training can only go so far and rehoming is seriously the wrong thing to do, so our options are to keep and deal with him or pts.

I don't wish an aggressive fearful dog on anyone.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

This is a different daughter. One he was ok with until today. She lives here, so I have to get this under control quickly.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

cmoorewv said:


> This is a different daughter. One he was ok with until today. She lives here, so I have to get this under control quickly.


Sorry, but a dog like yours is not going to be predictable and sometimes there's no way to help them. We have been using a calming treat called composure and it does reduce his anxiety and jumpiness.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

How were the spinal issues diagnosed Hector? I have read also that thyroid issues contribute to aggression, so I have a few things to discuss with the vet. But he is not safe there, either, so getting him acclimated to a muzzle is the first order of business. I don't think he will tolerate an exam. He's been terrible there from almost the beginning.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

cmoorewv said:


> How were the spinal issues diagnosed Hector? I have read also that thyroid issues contribute to aggression, so I have a few things to discuss with the vet. But he is not safe there, either, so getting him acclimated to a muzzle is the first order of business. I don't think he will tolerate an exam. He's been terrible there from almost the beginning.


Yeah, my dog is terrible at vets. No time to condition to muzzle. He will tolerate it and we just tell him to leave it (he keeps pawing to get muzzle off) and he will for a little while. We muzzle and restrain him for simple stuff and he's a pretty big boy - 130lbs. 

Well he went lame one day after a walk. That day before we were done with the walk, he acted very strange and acted like he wanted me to stop and kept pushing me and he didn't want to go any further. After we got home he refused to get up and cried every time he switched sides or got up to walk. He cried all night and all day and finally I got him to a vet. At that time, the goal was to get the pain under control. Whether he would be able to walk without pain was to be seen. If not, then the next step was neurologist. The vet examined his spine and found a warm spot on his lower spine at the time. He was on a lot of meds for a month and a half and now he's not in pain anymore, but he limps.

So 2 months post injury, I wanted answers. I took him back to the vets and got his spinal column xrayed. We were lucky that his condition showed up on x-rays (this condition doesn't always show up) called lumbosacral stenosis. It is a condition of the lower spine that causes pinched nerves. The vet's initial diagnosis was spot on. He told us usually when a dog screams in pain, it's a nerve problem and not hips. Another symptom I noticed was a bald patch on his tail that he had chewed without me knowing. I researched the disease and it all made sense, everything made sense.

A couple of weeks before his lameness, he slipped pretty hard and limped, but acted okay. 3 months prior, he had some trouble going up and down stairs, but mostly up - he'd whimper. I thought he had sprained something and it went away so I couldn't tell what was bothering him.

Right now we are on gluco supplements and aspirin, yes aspirin long term. I am looking into other alternatives like canineactiv. 

When he was sedated for xrays, I asked them to take his blood to get me a baseline blood panel and the thyroid came up .9 when the range is .9 - 4. Even though it wasn't the full panel, it gave me some explanation to his behaviors. The vet told us that he was going to need antidepressants down the road lol and I'm thinking my god what other medication does he need.

Before all of this made any sense, the dog was very bipolar - it was very strange and upsetting. Sometimes, there were things he didn't like anymore for example me hugging him or stuff like me bending over his back to reach something, he would get very very defensive. Other things he would do was like redirect on our other dog or redirect his aggression on us. Sometimes he felt cornered in the middle of the room lol. I'm not saying all his behavioral issues stem from these medical issues, but definitely we wouldn't know when he felt pain and when he associated us with his pain. The worst/funniest thing is (depending how you look at it) is that me and my bf constantly ask each other if he will growl at us if we got up or if we did this or if he's uncomfortable or if he's acting weird. Also, another thing I noticed when we were training is that sometimes he acted shut down when I asked for behaviors that required him to lift his upper body onto something. He'd start off eager, but started to shut down after a couple of repetitions.

He's 2.5 years old and he has definitely added a lot of stress and anxiety in our lives, but I love the boy to death. It's a good thing we don't have children, just 2 adults and 2 other dogs and there are definitely days we were ready to just give up.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Also, also...I always thought he would never redirect to me or treat me badly. Nothing matters to this dog in pain or fear, especially a dog that is quick to feel trapped and get defensive. 

His behavior started with the other male dog and then my bf and then eventually I was also targeted. All I can say is that you can never trust a dog like this.

I have another fearful, skittish dog, but I don't have to worry about him killing us in our sleep as bad as that sounds.

People might think I'm stupid to be keeping a dog like this (yes I often think that about myself too), but he has his good, loving, normal dog side too.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

Hank is large also-110 pounds at least. I do not think he has spinal issues. He never acts in pain but it's worth looking into. Thyroid probably needs looked at too just in case. He is definitely unpredictable to say the least. He has good points too and I really don't want to move him if I don't have to, but I also don't like risking a bad bite. He was an abandoned malnourished dog when I took him in and he's been generally good until recently.


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