# Husband wants to get a dog for the family...



## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Tony told me a week ago he'd like to get a dog for our daughter for Christmas. All our animals have a "main" owner, but they are all family pets - the 4 tarantulas, the 2 guinea pigs, and the Jendaya conure. We've had nearly every type of animal in our home other than cats and dogs in the past 3 years, but Tony was very very ill for awhile in early 2008 so we had to rehome nearly all of our animals as we couldn't properly care for them.

Now, we're both working full time (Tony SOME overtime - on call every few weeks), and bowl a couple evenings a week. We're about to move into a slightly larger appartment (1300 square feet at least - can't remember exactly), and it has a large fenced dog run near our building on the property, plus a HUGE park 5 minute drive away.

We live in FL, too, so heat can be a problem for some breeds.

Our daughter is 4 years old, but very mature for her age with animals as she has been helping care for them since she was just over 12 months old, and she does much of the care for the guinea pigs herself (we still check to make sure of course). I know that a dog would be primarily my responsibility, and I'm willing to do the work.

Schedule: Monday, I leave just after 9am, Tony gets back for a short time between 5:30 and 6:15, then we all get home around 9:30-10pm. Tuesday, we all leave before 7:30am, get home around 5:30. Wednesday is same as tuesday. Thursday I leave at just after 9am again, we all get home around 5:30. Fridays I leave just after 11am or 12pm depending on what time I start work that day, and we all get home around 10/10:30. Saturdays I am home, usually Tony is too. Sundays we have church and about 2.5 hours of bowling in the evening. In the week, Tony can come home for a potty break during his lunch as he works at the property that we are moving to in 3 weeks.

I'm more than willing to go for 30-60 minute walks in the morning, and play most eveings for 30-60 minutes outside in the dog run, plus play time in the house, and outings for much of the day some weekends. Becca would play with the dog a BUNCH as well, and so would Tony. Finances are not going to be an issue, as we are able to save significantly more money now than just recently, and can make sure we have enough for any emergencies saved up.

We also want to have another baby in the next couple years, but that will likely be it for kids in the house. And I've never owned a dog, though Tony used to have dogs a LOT in his past, but it's been 7 years or so.

All that being said, I've looked at small dogs mostly - maltese, bishon, pug-mixes like bugs and chugs, maybe even a puggle, and know that I'll likely not find one for awhile at a shelter as I'd prefer adopting from. I'm also willing to get a medium sized dog if it's the right dog for the family. No big dogs, and I need to make sure the dog would be good with Becca. 

We're looking to likely get a young dog around 9-12 months old so as we don't have the puppy-horrors. 

We went to the local no-kill shelter to talk to them about their rules and such, and we found the P-E-R-F-E-C-T dog attitude-wise. she's an unknown mix - Australian Shepherd and something else, making her a short-haired, slight shedding, but very smart and wanting to please like AS's often are. She's 1 year old and 35 pounds I think. She also warmed up to us right away, listened to us, and is GORGEOUS.

Again, it's a large appartment but still an appartment. There's a BIG dog run though, and we'll do lots of playing with her the whole time we're home. Becca will also be big on being a friend of her's... We also would make sure Becca visited with her at the shelter before we made the final decision. 

So.... Would Carly be a good match for us? The ladies at the shelter said personality-wise, she'd match perfectly for us, and do very well with Becca as she's been good with other kids that spent time with her. But do we have enough TIME to keep her occupied? I'd make sure we'd try teaching her new things every day, and kept her very active. With how much I read, I could go to the dog park and just read while Becca and she played. I'm willing to do whatever training is needed too. 

AKA, my big trepidation, as I have not owned dogs myself before (my husband has, and has had many different breeds in his past), I don't know if that would be enough time for the dog. I'd make sure once she's adjusted to our home that she would be able to at least be out much of the day in the house while we're gone, with tons of toys. If nothing else she could be in Becca's room where her kennel likely would be (becca's toys will be in a different room always, and her nightly toy to sleep with would go back to the toy room during the day), and be able to be out playing with her toys in there. Heck, Becca has a tv she is allowed to sometimes watch in her room (30-60 minutes a day) that could be on for the dog if needed while we're gone. 

Thoughts, ideas? I really really really really liked Carly and think she'd be perfect for us, as long as the time issue would work for us. 

Thank you for all your help!!! Any other ideas for breeds and things to be concerned of would be greatly appreciated.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh, two other things.

1) my bird, Pheonix, is flighted and presently rules the home. I know she'd get used to a dog, and I'd watch them very very closely for the first couple weeks to make sure they'd get along or keep them apart as needed. Suggestions in all of this? What should I watch out for in the dog not liking the bird? How to I get a dog used to a bird that flys, without an interest in EATING the bird?

2) Where is a check-list of everything I need for bringing a dog home? I want to make sure I have everything I need - I know most things but I don't know if I have everything or not. I want to be the best owner I can be for the dog, which is why I'm asking questions instead of just going and GETTING the dog.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Well first because your daughter is so young I would suggest an adult dog. Puppies like to bite and young children are usually the main target, a 4 year old can't defend herself from a rambunctious puppy thats using her hair as if it were a tug toy (I've personally seen it happen). Adult dogs around a year and a half to two years old have usually already learned not to bite or play rough, and their energy level and personality it pretty solidified at the age. If you were to go with a puppy you may pick out a calm puppy only to find out in 10 months that the calm puppy has grown into a hyperactive terror.

Most dogs in shelters are dumped there around 10-11 months old because they became too much to handle.

Puppies are also a LOT of work, It's just like raising a second child for the first year, you have to watch them every second to make sure they don't kill themselves. And you have to raise them right otherwise they can turn into that child that hits and screams when it gets older, except with a dog it would be Biting and Barking.


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## lizziedog1 (Oct 21, 2009)

> Now, we're both working full time (Tony SOME overtime - on call every few weeks), and bowl a couple evenings a week. We're about to move into a slightly larger appartment (1300 square feet at least - can't remember exactly), and it has a large fenced dog run near our building on the property, plus a HUGE park 5 minute drive away.


I really, really feel this is not the best situation for a dog. That is *my* opinion based on *my* observations for almost half a century. You can get the dog and hopefully all works out well, but I really, really think dogs need more time then you seem to have. Dogs are pack animals. They are social beings. 

If you really want a dog, please research breeds. There are some that do better with less human contact then others. There are exceptions to every case, but breed standards do serve as a guideline.

Whatever you do, good luck. If you do get one, please let us know what you got and how it is going. Even though I come across as grumpy, I do care.

Keechak



> Most dogs in shelters are dumped there around 10-11 months old because they became too much to handle.


You are so right. Extra time may have prevented some of them. I ask that people observe folks that spend a lot of time with their dogs. Usually, not always, those dogs are well behaved.

In another thread, a reply came about a small community were the people are lucky enough to allow thier dogs free roam. Everyone seems to interact with dogs all the time. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts behavior issues are minimal.

Again, good repsose, you show maturity beyond your age.


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## Thracian (Dec 24, 2008)

Lots of people work fulltime and have dogs. In fact, I'm one of them. I have to admit, though, that I'm pretty concerned about the Monday and Friday schedules. Even with a short visit, 10-12 hours is a long time for a dog to be alone and to be expected to hold her bladder. Is there some way the dog could go to doggy day care on those days?

Also, my impression of Aussies is that they are fairly high energy. Hopefully our Aussie owners will jump in with their experiences. For your situation, though, a low or medium energy dog would be best.

I would do my best to keep the dog and bird separated.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Thanks for your replies.  I'm one to spend lots of time, actually, with the animals. Considering full time work, as Tony and I both are working different schedules we'd be able to spend more time at home with a dog than many other dog-owners I know. I'm willing to get up early for the walks when needed, play late when needed... Same as with my conure - she gets 4-6 hours a day out of her cage while we're home on average to play with each of us as she wants to, and plenty of toys to occupy her in her cage...

I know I'd be able to spend the same 4-6 hours with a dog - and I'd prefer really getting a year-old dog or so myself, though Tony wants it slightly younger. But it all depends on what we find that would work well for our family. The one Australian Shepherd puppy (6 months old) at the shelter was WAY too rambunctious for us to handle right now, while Carly (at around 1 year) was perfect in so many ways in the shelter. 

But can the 1-2 hours a day OUTSIDE plus the play inside be enough for an AS mix? Tony is kinda set on her, but I don't want to bring her home if that amount of outside time and then another 2-4 hours of inside constant human time wouldn't be enough for such a dog.

What breeds WOULD you suggest in such a household? With both of our full-time jobs being on different schedules, we could really spend more time with the dog than if both of us worked 8-5 during the week, which to me means we'd have that much more time for an active dog - we're at home with our bird more right now than most of the people I know with dogs are home with their animals... And with such a gem as Carly seems to be I'd be more than willing to do it.

 I don't want to do any sudden decisions though, even though in many ways I'd LOVE to get carly TODAY.  What do you think we'd need FOR an AS if that is what we go with? What requirements of time in morning and evening? What foods, toys, and training materials would we need for her? What sort of vet care would be expected with such a dog? Or other breeds you might suggest?

Again, I don't know if Carly would even still be there when we were able to get her (we're moving to the appartments from a slightly smaller place in just over 3 weeks), so we could easily look into a different match for our family, too. I'm trying to do as much research as I can... And I know it will be a LOT of excercise time needed daily, which is why I'm wondering if 1 and 1/2 hours at the minimum on one day of the week and then usually 2-3 hours of outdoor time would be enough for an active dog like her? What sorts of dogs would that NOT be sufficient for, so I can keep them in mind as not appropriate? Again, I'm trying to educate myself, too. 

Anyhoo, I have a few things to pack now, and I'll look into this more later, as well as your responces. THANK YOU AGAIN! Trust me. 

Krystie

Edit - Thracian: Tony has his hour lunch and a couple breaks, and since we'll live at the property where he works he can let him/her out a few times each day, or at very least for 20 minutes (I asked him) during his lunch. So s/he would be in our home from just after 9am on mondays until around noon for Tony's break, then a break around 5:30 with him home with Becca, and then right before they leave around 6:15/6:20. So there IS that 5-6 hour time frame for the dog, and then another 4 hours that evening. Friday is the same other than I leave usually around 11am instead but s/he will have the same afternoon/evening schedule. If I need to, I'll find a daycare for the dog, too, as I don't want to neglect my animals - if they need more time than I can give them, I shouldn't have them basically.

I also agree that a low to medium energy dog would fit, but the AS mix we met today, Carly, seems to be within the upper limits of the range. The other AS mix was much more AS-looking, with long fur and HIGH ENERGY!!! Sheesh he was jumping everywhere and stealing treats and ripping toys... Too high energy for where we live right now. If we owned a home with a BIG back yard and I was only working part time or not at all, he might work for us. But not now. certainly not now. I was leary of the AS part of Carly until we spent time with her since she was very calm about it all - wanted to lick and love and cuddle, would fetch, would drop the toy with a gentle pull from her, and was willing to just lay there for us for pets. Although, I will be going back a few times to see her again so I know whether or not she'll be a good match for us, and I'll take Becca to "play with the puppies without homes so they have someone to play with" *cough*. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

And Pheonix will be kept in her cage until she can not yell at the dog and the dog is not interested in her while in the cage, and then she'll be held with us for awhile for the dog to get used to her out of the cage. Then the dog kenneled while the bird flys around so the dog knows what she can do... step by step for them to get used to one another and then respect one another. If it doesn't work, though, we'll reorganize things and the bird can play with Becca in her room while the dog is in the main house, or the bird on the porch for awhile, or whatever. People with multiple birds that don't get along can do it, so I know I'll be able to figure this out too. 

Cheers all - more packing!


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## lizziedog1 (Oct 21, 2009)

You will get many replies from many different folks here. You need to weigh them all. The final answer will be yours to make. I want to offer one more suggestion.

Go check out real live, flesh and blood dog experts. Go talk to vets, groomers, trainers and breeders. Pick their brains and see what they tell you. Also, go somewhere that has a lot of dogs playing. Look at the ones that mind and behave. Go talk to that dog's owner and really listen.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Lots of good info..I have afew things to add:

An aussie mix is a high energy breed and it sounds like you could have the exercise time to work with her BUT it is also important that the dog get to WORK. This means lots of training time, maybe agility or herding classes occasionally to keep her mind occupied. 

Also...regarding timing..Christmas is a bad idea. Sorry to be blunt but Christmas time in many houses is high activity, stressful, lots of comings and goings and excitement. A newly adopted dog of any kind in this environment can experience some pretty intense stress..I would look at getting the dog either well before or AFTER the New Year instead of in the midst of the insanity that is family holidays. Whether this dog is a good fit or not will make little difference in the stress she will feel trying to acclimate to a new environment during the holidays.


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## lizziedog1 (Oct 21, 2009)

Cracker



> Also...regarding timing..Christmas is a bad idea. Sorry to be blunt but Christmas time in many houses is high activity, stressful, lots of comings and goings and excitement.


Very good point. If the puppy is meant to be a Christmas present, even more of a bad idea.


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

I think ultimately it will be your decision. If you feel confident in the amount of time you can spend training, walking etc then I cant see a huge issue. An older dog(like what you are looking at) is better for a younger child. I do have a malamute puppy around my just turned 3 year old and I don't have issues, he gets treated like a toddler too! If you get the dog now it's better than at Christmas, less stress and gives the new family member some time before the craziness starts, if you have that much craziness in your house, I know I try to keep the holidays low key. Good luck to you


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Ok, back a bit more.  

We're a low-key family for holidays, and even with my parents in town it will not be too much different, really - it'll just be the 5 of us, plus animals. Not too much decor other than the tree, and we could keep the dog away from that by putting it up late and keeping the dog out of that room...

Also, we might just up and get Carly, which would be sooner for sure, or give Becca all the stuff needed for a dog for Christmas and then go searching for the "right" one then... It doesn't have to be a Christmas gift, that's just what Tony originally thought. But it is unlikely to be that way. 

I think the excitement of a new puppy would be about the same for my family as it is for Christmas, but what determines it will be when we find the right dog for our family. And yes, there's a big part of me wanting Carly - she's pretty and loving and... *sigh* Again, I'm not gonna make a final decision until after I see her at least two more times, including one time with Becca there interacting with the dog.

Goodnight all. I'm off to bed to finish getting over this cold and more packing for the move in 3 more weeks. Bleh, I really don't want to move. 

Oh, and we're making sure the move isn't crazy too - moving over a 2 week period, so if we DO get a dog around that time, it won't be too horrible - we'll make sure that we have basically what we NEED to have in the new place quickly with the dog, and then get the rest moved over in the ensuing 2 weeks.  Lots going on.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Sorry if I'm a bit grumpy today and not taking crits well - bad argument with my mom about something just after we got back from the shelter (nothing to do with dogs though), so I'm more defensive than usual.

I know plenty of people with all size dogs that DON'T mind. I also know people with small dogs that are really badly behaved because of poor training, although I don't personally know any badly behaved larger dogs. I also see how much they exercise their dogs - little to none. My boss has two labs, she and her husband work more than we do, and run and bike with their dogs quite a bit daily. They are fairly well behaved because of the right care. My sister-in-law has a couple larger dogs: a huskey/pit mix, and a collie-pit mix. She doesn't walk them, just lets them out on the long leads in the back yard, but does good training inside basically and they are really NOT well-behaved since she won't take the time. *sigh* My mother-in-law has knee problems and a large mutt who needs excercise but cannot do it because of her problems. Luckily the dog is understanding and though a bit wound up she is calm enough and doesn't go nutty....

Each dog is different. I know Carly might be a holy terror as just an "Aussie mix", but there are differences within a breed and especially within breed mixes. If she seems to be near the top end of my preferred energy level the next time or two I go see her, I'll not adopt her as I don't want to give her a bad home. But, I do want to give her a chance - as I like to give to all animals. I've taken in a few reptiles and a guinea pig to rehab, and I've usually been fairly successful. I know dogs are a totally different story, but I want to be open to all the dogs there, waiting for the one that is right for us. I hope Carly is it, but I'm OK if she's not.

Heck, people told me Tony wasn't a good guy for me, and we've had some issues, but... I couldn't imagine being married to any other man, even with the issues (all relationships have issues).

As I do more research, I'll let you know progress.  If Carly doesn't come home with us, I'll be looking into bugs, chugs, puggles, malteses, bishons, pugs... Maybe others too as they fit us, although if we find a match we'll take it. As today went, we found a better match with Carly as a medium sized dog than the small dog there. We'll just wait for the right dog and the right connection.

I also want to talk to a few people I know around here that have dogs and see what they think. The people at my church have well-behaved dogs generally, and they do spend a good amount of time with their dogs, too. Although, my pastor's dog is quite rotund as he's usually doing historical research and his wife is a teacher and does alot of work for the church.  

I don't mean to be closed today, and I'll be going over what you said to me already tomorrow and the next day so I can really grasp what you are saying about all of this and really think it over. I've just had alot going on today.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

Buggzter said:


> Sorry if I'm a bit grumpy today and not taking crits well - bad argument with my mom about something just after we got back from the shelter (nothing to do with dogs though), so I'm more defensive than usual.
> 
> I know plenty of people with all size dogs that DON'T mind. I also know people with small dogs that are really badly behaved because of poor training, although I don't personally know any badly behaved larger dogs. I also see how much they exercise their dogs - little to none. My boss has two labs, she and her husband work more than we do, and run and bike with their dogs quite a bit daily. They are fairly well behaved because of the right care. My sister-in-law has a couple larger dogs: a huskey/pit mix, and a collie-pit mix. She doesn't walk them, just lets them out on the long leads in the back yard, but does good training inside basically and they are really NOT well-behaved since she won't take the time. *sigh* My mother-in-law has knee problems and a large mutt who needs excercise but cannot do it because of her problems. Luckily the dog is understanding and though a bit wound up she is calm enough and doesn't go nutty....
> 
> ...



I just wanted to say that I have an aussie/acd mix and he is just over a year old. He is the most calm dog that I have ever met. We also have a corgi/shnauzer mix and she bounces off the WALLS! It is all in the dog. Every dog is different and just because it is a certain breed does not dictate personality. I really hope that everything works out for you and you get the dog that fits you the best.

Oh, only one thing about my boy: he likes to herd children. Some herding breeds nip at the kids when they do this, so I would be sure to let your daughter meet Carly first.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

I absolutely am making sure Becca meets Carly first. Becca is excellent with animals, and if Carly is as smart as she seems to be (from the little we saw her), I hope I can train her NOT to herd humans, but maybe to herd the guinea pigs when they are out...  Nah, I'll be trick-training her as much as I can for quite awhile, and then when we own our own home we'll have agility training to do with her. 

I just hope she IS as calm with Becca. If she stays calm over the net couple visits, and is good with Becca as well, I'd say she's a match made in heaven!  YAY!!! If not, that's OK and we'll find that perfect pup for our family.

Thanks everyone - still looking forward to reading what you think on the matter, no matter your opinions. Once I get some good sleep in me I should be fine. (still can't sleep... stupid pains from the cold... Nearly gone tho)


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Carly sounds like a great dog and here is just another little food for thought... sometimes you don't see a dog's true colors when they are still in the shelter... a smart breed like a cattle dog might just figure out that being mellow and calm makes more people pay attention to me and you might not see the tazmanian devil inside until after a week or 2 at home... we call this the honeymoon period and it is when most dogs are returned to the shelter (within 2 weeks of adoption).

Second there is a great site called dogbreedinfo.com which gives you great decriptions of all dog breeds pure bred and designer breeds alike. www.dogbreedinfo.com

If you go with a smaller breed I'd make sure it was a tough breed maybe like a boston terrier (and if you get a more bully boston they're nowher near as hyper as a more terrier type boston. Mine is more bully and he is quite mellow and always was. Most smaller breeds are going to be huigher eneregy than larger breeds... my Dane ws the most laid back stotic dog you could find (next to my 80 pound boxer) whereas my toy fox terrier could and did run circles around him even at 7 yrs old. Don't rule out the big guys just because you think they're going to be more active. Some of the best breeds are in the 50 lb and up group... hounds like coonhounds fox hounds and the sort are GREAT family dogs. Treeing walker and black and tan coonhound is actually on my list of breeds to own some day. Go to dogbreed info and they have a section there called something like "match me with my breed" and it'll ask you a few questions about what you're looking for in a dog and offer the best suggestions for breeds that suit those desires. 

Good luck.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Thanks for the tips DS, the returning issue is something I'm going to talk to them about the next time I go in, really. And the reason for small to medium breeds is because I'll be in an appartment - a LARGE appartment with a really nice dog run, but still an appartment. Thus most medium/big dogs are out. And I have to make sure the dog breed would work well with having other animals in the house, especially the flighted conure, and more than anything work well with my daughter!

That website has helped me a lot in looking at a number of different breeds I've looked at, and they kinda matched me up with some interesting mixes for small dogs. But since I'm looking into shelters, it's just a guideline for us as we go through and look there.

I HOPE that's not what Carly is doing. I really hope she'll be a good match. But I will NOT decide until 1) we see what she's like a couple more times, 2) we have everything we need for her and can put her in the new home, and 3) SHE IS STILL THERE WHEN WE ARE READY. LOL!!! After thinking about her, I really am hoping she'll be there still and that she'll fit us. 

Also, sometimes the actions after the honeymoon period - could they also be the dog testing the new home out, finding the boundaries of the rules? Just curious - as I've never had a dog before, this is all going to be very new to me whichever dog I bring home! What resourses would all of you sugest for me to look into? Thanks everyone for your help, too.

Good night everyone!


PS - http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf76753168.tip.html Carly has different coloring, but I'm fairly positive she's a boxer/AS mix!!! From what I see, some CAN be laid back... I can only hope...  Silly insomnia, but at least it led to what I think is her breeding!


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Just to let you know I had 3 rough collies in the past and all three were raised in apartments successfully. In fact the last 2 helped manage hotels (LOL). What I'm saying is that any dog can be raised in an apartment IF you're willing to do the work. My collies went to obedience classes, agility lessons, and had playdates with known dog friends. Plus long walks and playtime and mega-grooming sessions with me. Btw, Aussies do tend to shed--- alot.

Also, if you get one of the designer mixes, please get it from a shelter or rescue group and do not support the BYB by purchasing an over-priced mutt from a so-called breeder.


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## FaithFurMom09 (Oct 24, 2009)

I have a beagle/rotti mix and live in an apartment. The hardest part? Not having a yard. Space isnt an issue, just not having a yard is. We are moving to a house with a yard so i wont have to worry anymore.  

As far as Carly, if you feel in your heart that shes the dog for you, then get her. I think when you find that perfect dog, you will just have that feeling and youll know.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Good for you ASKING QUESTIONS before doing. 

I read thru this and conisdering your flighted Conure, you will need to crate train your dog. This is for the safety of the Conure. You do not want to leave the apartment with the Conure and the Dog free together. Ever. Prey drive can give you a dead bird. There is a DVD you should get called "Crate Games" for crate training your dog. Source is www.dogwise.com 

A crate will do a few other things. It will prevent the dog from getting on the furniture or chewing things inapporpriately (like electrical cords) or getting into the trash. It is also a good place to store the dog when you are preparing meals or eating (prevent begging at the table or counter surfing by preventing it from ever happening). 

Another thing.. you are looking at breeds and all the rest but admit to knowing little about dogs. READ. Start with this book: "The Other End of The Leash" by Patricia McConnell Phd. It is an easy read and interesting with anecdotal stories in it. You will learn a LOT about dogs and what they do and why. READ that BEFORE getting a dog. Tony should read it too. Also can be had from Dogwise.

Next.. most dogs in shelters need training. Before you get a dog, find out where you can go and take a beginner obedience class with your adult rescue dog or other dog you might get (I too am thinking adult better than puppy at this point). If you get a dog, get signed up for a training class sooner rather than later. Many dogs are IN shelters because no one ever bothered to train them. 

I like that you are planning this, including time spent with the dog, potty outs and the rest. I think you should read the above book as a starter before you get a dog. Knowledge is power!


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

We lived in a small one bedroom apartment with 2 large dogs and both worked full time (and sometimes overtime). If you are willing to make it work, it will work. I would definitly do obedience classes, find somewhere your daughter can go too, it would be great for her to learn how to handle the dog. My dogs still go to classes simply because it gives them something to do that they enjoy. 

One thing that is great with an intellegent dog is to feed them out of toys and puzzles instead of out of a bowl. My dogs love this toy: http://www.petvetsupply.com/ptodtrc037.html, it can make meals last a lot long and therefore keep them them busy and entertained for awhile!


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

Welcome to the forum...I think you're on the right track looking for an adult dog and not a puppy. Many people work full time and have dogs and I think that's fine...I think it would be very difficult to housebreak a _puppy_ while working full time just because of the frequency that they need to be taken out, but I think you've already realized that. 

Looking at shelter dogs around the 1 year mark, you are still going to have some housebreaking to do, it'll be easier than a puppy and maybe just a refresher course, but you might also end up with a dog that was never housebroken in it's previous home, so be prepared for that. Also puppy stuff like chewing will still be going on...most dogs are 2 or 3 before they settle down and get out of that puppy stage. I highly recommend training classes, and with your child, bird, and other small animals I also recommend crate training or at least several baby gates.

Ok, so the dog you like, Carly...I'm just going to go ahead and say personally if you like her, I think you should go ahead and get her. Aussies are high energy breeds typically and very smart, but you are looking at a shelter dog that is _possibly_ an aussie mix...she may be high energy, or may not. Just be prepared if she is...I have a mini aussie, 22 lbs, who is very high energy, but it is pretty easy to occupy her playing ball in the house. She also loves training and running with other dogs. Also be prepared for possible nipping, mine gets nippy when the kids rough house with her, and if they run she will chase them and bite them on the butt, not hard, but still, something to think about. There is no way to say though if Carly would have any of those issues, just ask a bunch of questions of the shelter staff.

Let us know what you decide.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't think Tony cares what I've found out here - he wants Carly!!! LOL!!! BUT, I am asking him to wait to see how she is with Becca first before a decision is made. Then we also have to get everything together for her to come home. If she's still there by the time we're set, we'll get her. (won't get *everything* as we'll make sure the kennel and certain size-items are good fits, as if we don't get Carly we don't want to waste money) 

Tony misses his old dog, and he's gone quite awhile without a dog. Poor guy.


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## Thracian (Dec 24, 2008)

It sounds like I got the wrong impression about how much time you'd be away. As long as you are willing to give the dog time and exercise, I'm sure you'll be fine.



> Also, sometimes the actions after the honeymoon period - could they also be the dog testing the new home out, finding the boundaries of the rules? Just curious - as I've never had a dog before, this is all going to be very new to me whichever dog I bring home! What resourses would all of you sugest for me to look into?


I don't have any resources to recommend, just something to keep in mind. Dogs respond differently to the shelter environment. Some get hyper and barky and settle down a bit when they are in a home. Others become shy and reserved in the shelter and open up once they get home.

My first dog, Cupid, was a real sweetheart in the shelter. He seemed calm and very mellow. Also shy and uncomfortable, so I resolved to bring him home. Turns out he was having physical issues which had an impact on his energy level in the shelter. He became much more comfortable once I brought him home. My calm and mellow dog is a very active fetch-a-holic. Don't get me wrong--he's still a sweetheart, and I wouldn't trade him for the most calm and mellow dog. I'm just saying you should expect to see some change in personality. It's not usually about finding the boundaries but is instead seeing a dog's true personality come out.

Another thought: if you're concerned about herding, you could bring a friend of your daughter's along with you to see how she does with more than one child around.

Hope it works out for you. Good luck!


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## My Dog Bishop (Sep 27, 2009)

It sounds like you guys are going to be bringing home Carly! 

I adopted a two year old Aussie mix from a rescue. I have no idea what he is mixed with, but he is completely mellow at home. I work long days Mon-Thurs, and though I live in a house, I don't have a doggie door yet (the gate won't always stay shut). I let him out three times a day: in the morning, when I get home from work, and before I go to bed.

I take him to the dog park everyday, and let him run around and play for about an hour or so. When I take him hiking, we're hiking for 3-7 hours. That does him in for the rest of the weekend. LOL 

Anyhow, of course it's going to depend on the dog, but I think time-wise for working and exercising your dog, you'll do just fine.

My dog tries to herd me sometimes. I think it is hilarious! I just stand there and stare at him, though.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

My Dog Bishop said:


> My dog tries to herd me sometimes. I think it is hilarious! I just stand there and stare at him, though.


Tony DOES want to bring home Carly, but it'll be about 5-6 days before we could get things set to have her here at home, and she may be gone by then. Plus we'll see if Becca and Carly gets along. I think Becca knows SOMETHING is up, but she doesn't really pay attention to "adult" conversations so she doesn't know much. 

In dealing with herding, how would I teach a dog to NOT herd the family? How would that training come about? Becca is not allowed to run in the house, so that would help with any dog but especially a herder. 

I also found out that a friend's daughter just adopted a 20-pound mutt and DNA tested it, finding out it's (from most to least) doberman, collie, boxer, and Chi!!! Big-dog attitude of a Dob, energy of a collie, playfullness and friendliness of a boxer, and LOOKS LIKE A GIANT CHI!!!!! LOL!!! He's CUTE though. Aubrey has had all sorts of dogs, from Great Danes to Boston Terriers (hers was just put down a few months ago from old age problems with his bowls). She is also going to help with any assistance we need in basic training and care issues, which is awesome. And since she knows Becca, she has suggestions for how to have Becca deal with whatever dog we get so the dog doesn't push her around... I also am thinking about getting into obedience classes at the start of the year with the dog so as we can learn how to handle him/her the best.

Although I'd love to bring Carly home, I do think she'd be a challenge for me as a first-time dog owner. But then, Tony has had lots of prior experience (it's just been about 5 years now) and we have many friends to help. Plus she could easily be gone from the shelter by the time we're ready to bring her home...  Thus, I'm not gonna keep my hopes up too high. I tried to not do so, but I've fallen in love with that beautiful face and pleasing attitude. Though she'll be different at home, I want to BE her home. *sigh* but I'll always find another dog to fall in love with later if that happens to be the case.

Thanks for all the help everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm looking at toys from a few suggestions, and some books suggested as well. And reading alot of the stickies here and links from the stickies... I now just have to figure out which FOOD to get too, for Carly and then what I would get for a smaller toy dog... *sigh* Lots to do yet.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

You really can't train the herding instinct out of a herding dog like an aussie cattle or shepherd dog. All you can hope to do is replace the nipping that they use to drive with a more socially accptable behavior. That training would all depend on how this pup showed it's herding instinct. Running would be a prey drive reaction and not a herding reaction. herding would be more like the daughter was in a part of the yard and the dog wasn't comfortable with that so she would "drive" your daughter to another part of the yard as if she were a sheep so that she could keep a better eye on her. (watch Babe). I have worked with several aussies over my 17 year career and it's always the same thing... how do I get my aussie to stop nipping at my kids. I don't usually recommend Aussies with smaller kids. it seems that as the kids age the desire to herd them lessens. What is your zip code?? Or a listing of the dog you're looking at. Does the shelter have a web site? what breeds was dogbreeinfo suggesting for you?

Lastly I know you keep saying that you dont have a lot of expereince but Tony does... that will only help you so far. You work opposite shifts so you have to know how to deal with the dog or she'll never respect you. You are doing a good job at eeducating yourself so far and I think just take your time and don't jump on the first dog you see if you don't honestly feel ready and educated enough to be alone with it. Tony isn't going to always be able to prepare you for everything the dog might throw at you until it happens... You need to be able to control this dog as much as Tony does or you're going to be unhappy. Classes for you and the dog and your daughter would be an AWESOME idea so that you can learn form some one that is not your husband and develop your own technique, you can have the time to bond with the dog yourself and to learn together, plus helping your daughter to learn how to deal with the dog and that will help elevate her status in the dog's eye and hopefully avoid any potential issues that might arise after the honeymoon period.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Ok, Becca knows not to run in the house, but what about outside play time? I know you can't get a herding dog not to herd, but how would you suggest redirecting that so Becca is not herded? Is there a way to redirect that behavior when we are in a dog park or the appartment's dog run so as we could get Carly to stop? Would you suggest telling her right when she starts herding those she shouldn't that we command her to lay down, then treat as she behaved? Or is there another redirection for herding? I want to have her help clean up her toys each day, and maybe even help becca clean up hers later on, as well as working on lots of training, obedience, and tricks now, agility later or therapy-type work depending on what she likes doing. But would any of this help her not herd becca? I don't know if she even WILL, though it's likely there will be times of it.

Personally, I feel confident with Carly. At least, now I do. She listened very well to me. She listened to Tony, yes, but she went mostly to me at the shelter. I am stubborn and determined and I'm forcefull enough to usually make my strong-willed bird listen to me (that's a challenge!!! LOL!), so I feel I can handle MOST dogs that at least are willing to listen. If the dog didn't WANT to listen is where I don't know how to deal with that - which a couple of the dogs there had no interest in listening to me so I said "no" to them emphatically. While I train her, I'm going to have Becca working with her at the same time so as Carly listens to both of us - and teaching Tony too so we have the same commands, treating ways, and redirections as needed. We'll do the same for any dog we get, really. Thus Becca will be higher ranked than the dog in our home. At least, that's the present plan.

Unfortunately, Bishop does not put their animals on a website usually, if at all. They don't have a large population, but they get a lot of dogs from the kill shelters that they don't WANT to kill for whatever reason (that's what I've gathered, at least, but I'm not 100% on that), and then a bunch dropped off at the shelter too. Carly was dropped off there, had a short intake period of a few days to do vet work, microchipping, and tatooing. I think she was already spayed - if I remember correctly she had only been in the system for about 7-10 days, and as she showed no signs of needing to heal from surgery... 

But her front-end stance was quite boxer-like, her facial expressions/size/looks are Aussie, and she was SOOOO sweet and listened right away to us, unlike any of the other dogs we looked at. I'd say there's about 25-30 dogs there right now, and they get a few in on Mondays and Fridays from the SPCA for adoption. If we don't get Carly for whatever reason, we'll always be able to find another dog - whether there or at another shelter.  But we'll wait for the right match, time is no constraint except for wanting to get Carly NOW when we do in fact have to wait... LOL!!! 

Yes, I want her - she's beautiful, sweet, she'll be great for me to "have" to train so both of us have good challenges and activity, and Becca will learn about training intelligent creatures. We also have a few people from church willing to help us with the beginning basics as needed, and Aubrey will help a LOT in finding what we need for her as well as training issues that might come up (she's 22/23 I think and has had many many dogs of all sizes with her mother's and father's families as well as now her own 20-pound dob/collie/boxer/chi mutt!!! She did DNA testing, even!)

But, the two things that will prevent us from giving Carly a home:
1) Becca and Carly do NOT get along - if that happens, she will not obviously come home with us. I sure hope they get along, but if not that's OK. It wasn't ment to be then.
2) Carly finds a home before we can bring her home. If that's the case, we'll be sad, but there will always be more dogs to adopt that will fit our home. 

Thanks for your advice. Becca IS 4, although she's fairly mature for her age especially with animals. But we still might have another child, which at that point the dog will likely be kept apart from the child until the baby is old enough to respect the dog - I'm willing to do that as needed, but that will be awhile and Aubrey and Lindsay both know steps in helping dogs get used to new babies, and Aubrey has connections around our area to help with whatever snags happen, as well.

And dog matches I mostly was looking at small and toy breed dogs, mostly bringing up bishon, maltese, and mixes relating to those as I "ideally" would look for a lower-energy small dog... But although that's my thought ideal, I'd rather my family became less sedentary and a dog that needs exercise and the mental stimulation would be perfect for me as I also need much more exercise and mental stimulation which the dog would provide for ME by me providing what the dog needs. I'm always willing to do what I need to for my animals, much more than I am for myself. So even what *I* think I need, doesn't mean that's what is best for me, and the dog that WANTS me as a home that I can provide a good home for is better to me that getting a dog that doesn't want me in particular but fits my perceived ideals... I love all animals, and I wouldn't really like tiny dogs or huge dogs, but she seems just right really... Can't help it - I'm practically in love as much as Tony is with her!

have a good night everyone. Working in the morning, so I'm out for now.  Cheers!


ps - what collars and leashes do you recommend for an AS/boxer mix type dog? What about smaller breeds, such as toy dogs (which I'll be more leaning towards of course if Carly doesn't work out - she's not the ideal breed-match although I'm willing to do the work). I'm looking at toys, but I see more of a concensis of hardy, learning toys out there for Carly's breed and easier toys for smaller dogs. Kennels are easier, as are dog beds... Food is debated in the forum for me to read, along with treats. And I think I'll make all her food at first be stuffed in toys and as treats with learning... And I'm going to get some interactive feeders for her so it helps her mind too (IF she's the one we bring home - I'm not getting anything breed-specific until we are bringing the dog itself home)


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

**I"M BACK!!!!**

Ok, two days of packing and cleaning left, and we *MAY* be bringing a dog home...

We've talked to Aubrey, Sam, Audrey, Teresa, my pastor, and a few of my husband's coworkers about their experiences and what all they suggest with everything, and I think we're prepared for Carly - if not her, whatever next dog chooses us (and that's only if Carly has found a different home in the 5 days since we were at the shelter - they do NOT "hold" dogs after adoption, you must take the dog THEN, and as we have not 1) had time to go down there to get her, and 2) picked up all the things she'll need as we don't know "for sure" that she's coming home with us we don't want to get Carly-sized things and not need them)...

The two friends that I'm going to rely on most (other than forum-people) are Sam and Aubrey. Both are HUGE dog people, and Sam used to work in kennels and for an AKC kennel as well apparently. Aubrey has experience with most types of dogs and she's trained many as well, plus she's an animal-adovocate more than most animal people I know. Sam? She's got a deaf boxer and a APBT mix at home, plus usually is babysitting one or two other dogs most weeks for friends in the area that are out of town (will only babysit for one person's dog/s at a time though). I work with Sam, and Aubrey and I go to church together so this is really really good for me. 

Friday Carly comes home if she's still there. First though I'm going to get a few things from my work as Friday there's a 25% discount for employees as a "flu-shot-season thankyou" from corporate... A dog bed, some toys, treats, poo bags... maybe some food if it's the same type that Carly is on now. Then stop at a store to get the few other things I'll need (harness, collar, leash, crate, food, more treats, more toys). Then, 9am, pick up Carly, sign paperwork and pay $50 for an awesome baby, take her home for a long walk or training in the dog-run, and some play time!!! Then a treat or two, and I'd have to get going to work. Tony would check on her at lunch most days, but I'd be leaving at that point, around 12:30. Tony would be back around 5:30 for about an hour, then we'd be back around 10pm - then be with her almost the entire weekend, minus a couple hours on Sunday for church and then for bowling that night...

What should I prepare for? How do I get her used to a crate if she's not crate trained? Where do you suggest I look for info on how to crate-train (I've found SOME, but I'd like to know how YOU did it). Also, which harnesses and leashes would you suggest to get for an Aussie/boxer mix? What treat brands are your dogs' favorites? What size dog BED would I need for a small boxer sized dog?

Also, I'm thinking I don't want to give her any plush toys as Becca has stuffed animals we don't want Carly stealing. How do YOU suggest negative-training be done (aka, DO NOT TOUCH, CARLY!!! that works, and sticks relatively quickly)? What is your best suggestion for training her to stop in her tracks if I don't want her doing whatever she is doing??

What are your favorite training resources outside of a trainer (which I'll turn to as well!)?  I'm reading as much as I can here on the site and other sites, but I also like seeing people's personal preferences.

Oh, and what preference do people have for crates for in the home/not traveling? And how much bigger SHOULD the crate be than the dog, IYO, as I've seen 36-42" suggested for Aussies, and I'm not sure which to get right now? I think I'd err on the bigger side if I didn't have a good idea by the time I went to get it...

OK, looking for more info, as well as cheapest place to get good-quality kennel, as that's really the most expensive part of the bring-home right now.  Cheers all, and more later as I know it!


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

I would get a Bichon Frise because they don't need a large amount of excersise and you can give them lots of hair cuts. 

We have a Poodle/Maltese mix and it's a great puppy. No bad odors, no shedding, no alergies, lots of cool hair styles are possible.. and they are super smart.. it almost trains itself... I would say just get a non shedding puppy like a Bichon, Maltese, Poodle, or any mix of them. I Believe I read that a Poodle is a higher energy dog though as compared to a Bichon.

I also like a solid white coat because it contrasts well with the dark eyes and nose. Really cute.

Here's what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zze13KH85DY


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

***DROOL***

I WOULD love a Bichon as my mentor from years back had one that I loved dearly... But, a big part of what dog we get is who's available at the shelters that fits us. At Bishop, right now there is only one small dog - a 7-year old daushund/chi mix who did NOT have any interest in either myself or my husband. There were two others we looked at more serriously - an older herding-dog looking gal who had arthritis so was not too active, and Carly at a year old who LOVED us and felt perfect. We'll wait as needed until we find the right dog. But, I hope Carly is the dog for us right now. A bishon would be good for us as a second dog, really, as Tony really really really does NOT want a high-maintenance-with-grooming dog, which most of the small dogs that would be perfect for us would actually BE. Oh well.

But, if Carly is not there, we'll look around and see if one of the other shelters in the area has a smaller dog in the types that are more ideal for our family, and see what dog matches us (we'd meet dog and see if the dog likes us and vice versa, too)... BUT... I really really really really really really really really really really really really really want to bring Carly home.

I'm stopping for a couple minutes tomorrow at the shelter to see if she's still there, and Friday will be take-home day if she's still there then (we needs just a LITTLE more money for the rest of the supplies plus adoption fee - $50 - and payday is midnight Thus/Fri). If she's not there? I'll go to work and be fairly depressed for the day or the weekend or so, and then I'll start looking for the next match for us. We'll find the right one - I'm willing to wait until we find him or her, no matter how much my heart is set on the one. 

Anyhoo, I stopped at Walmart to see prices on what I still need. I found the right size kennel I THINK (36" long) for $60 USD!!! WOOT!!!! Even if it's not the sturdiest, I'll take it for the next 6 weeks until everything is totally taken care of with having all bills a month-extra paid off and some MORE savings put away in case of emergencies so as any health problems are averted... Then I get a better one if needed. I also found most of the toys I want, the leash, collar, walking-harness, car harness, treats, FOOD... good bowls... EVERYTHING I need minus the pet bed that I want that is at my work for $10.  YAY!!!!! 

And IF it turns out that she's gone, I can still get what I need for a dog from Walmart when we pick the dog - just stop for 15 minutes of shopping and check out (plus wait time in line) for what's needed, really, as I know where it is and all that I really want - 5 different types of treats that aren't too bad quality and price, a dozen different toys (no plus), a good collar and leash... the right size harnesses, too!  YAY!!!

Ok, that's done. I need to get to bed soon as it's late and I have a long day tomorrow for work and cleaning and shopping. Heck, I have to finish cleaning my house tomorrow night, and that will take QUITE awhile as I have alot to do before the dog can come home - it's a bit messy from packing and sorting. All my clothes and my daughter's are strewn all over the living room for sorting and packing what we don't need over the next few days, and what will be donated for the church's yard sale. Can't have that out for the dog - she needs cleanliness and space!!!

What would you suggest for what is needed clean-wise for an Aussie/boxer mix, as she is? I'm a cluttered person generally, but I can adapt for what I NEED to do for my animals much much better than for just myself. 

Cheers all! Going to clean a tad more before bed!

Krystie


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## zturtilli (Aug 5, 2009)

Buggzter said:


> Tony told me a week ago he'd like to get a dog for our daughter for Christmas. All our animals have a "main" owner, but they are all family pets - the 4 tarantulas, the 2 guinea pigs, and the Jendaya conure. We've had nearly every type of animal in our home other than cats and dogs in the past 3 years, but Tony was very very ill for awhile in early 2008 so we had to rehome nearly all of our animals as we couldn't properly care for them.
> 
> Now, we're both working full time (Tony SOME overtime - on call every few weeks), and bowl a couple evenings a week. We're about to move into a slightly larger appartment (1300 square feet at least - can't remember exactly), and it has a large fenced dog run near our building on the property, plus a HUGE park 5 minute drive away.
> 
> ...


Hey, you'll find that spending 10-20 minutes a day of training time with your new dog should be enough... but you'll certainly need more time for feeding, walking, etc. It's an important decision, and the last thing you'd want would be to neglect the dog... good luck!


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Buggzter said:


> ***DROOL***
> 
> I WOULD love a Bichon as my mentor from years back had one that I loved dearly... But, a big part of what dog we get is who's available at the shelters that fits us.


Hey I know you have your heart set on that doggy, but keep in mind that at a year old it was probably given up due to behavioural issues. I think owners will try what is reasonable in their comfort level to correct problems but if they persist give up the dog.

I just noticed that the Australian Shepherd is a herding dog. These dogs have very strong instinct to chase things. For instance if a child is in the room it may try to herd the child. It may also not get along well with other animals. They are also very high energy and need lots of outdoor excersise.

Boxers are fine though.

Look at this video regarding the Australian Shepherd. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut09MXG7cyg

Also keep in mind that the dog might have behavioral problems that you will inherit and since the dog is grown and has been given up and it will be harder to teach this dog new behaviors because you didn't get him early enough as a puppy.

If I really wanted an adopted dog with great temperment and not get a puppy, I would play it safe and adopt a greyhound or whippet. They have their own rescue's and foster homes and you can ask for a specific temperment that suits you. There's many to chose from, have had shots, been fixed, fed good food, etc. Usually the foster parents will be able to descibe the personalities so it makes chosing that much more easy. 

With the shelter, you honestly won't know what you are getting. All we know is that someone(s) gave up this 1 year old dog. They must have had a reason.

But don't mind me.. I'm a worry wart so always plan for the worst


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> But don't mind me.. I'm a worry wart so always plan for the worst


Don't worry, I'm an optomist, so we meet in the middle. 

I'm planning on teaching Becca RIGHT AWAY this weekend as I teach Carly (IF she comes home) so as Becca will know how to give Carly commands - including to stop and to sit/lay down. Hopefully we will quickly get those instilled in Carly so as she stops and lays down immediately with a certain command. That way if Carly starts doing anything with Becca, Becca can tell her to stop. I'm also making sure Becca and Carly get along before Carly comes home on Friday - thus why also Becca will be going with me on Friday before the papers are signed, to see the first stuff.

Also, two friends (Sam and Aubrey) both have had dogs of all sizes, as well as herding dogs before. Sam also has a deaf boxer right now, and both are willing to work with us to help train Carly as needed (though we'll be doing most of course). 

For your reassurance, Carly was taken to Bishop because her family faced forclosure and a move, and would have to live with family and could not take care of her in that home anymore (shelter worker knows the family - they live in a 4-bedroom appartment with sibling's full family, so 7 people living there with 3 cats and a bunny). She's housebroken, good with kids according to the worker, and she was GREAT with us from the first moment we saw her. So we're hoping, and our hearts ARE set.

BUT we're willing to be disappointed for the sake of Becca and for the sake of Carly's best interest if 1) she found a good home already, or 2) she and Becca don't mix.

I will be also giving Carly a job - learning TONS of tricks, obedience, and likely later various obsticle courses that I make up later this year if I get the chance to reduce my hours at work (MAYBE, if Tony's job keeps getting better as it looks to be). If not, we'll figure out new things for her to learn always.  I'm good at coming up with that sort of thing. Maybe even dog-dressage if I can! THAT would be fun! 

Anyways, I need to get going. have a good night all, and I'll report more tomorrow. Maybe I'll be less OCD and be able to write less... LOL!!!

Krystie


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> Hey I know you have your heart set on that doggy, but keep in mind that at a year old it was probably given up due to behavioural issues. I think owners will try what is reasonable in their comfort level to correct problems but if they persist give up the dog.


That may be true but it isn't always true. From most of the homeless dogs I've dealt with, most were not dumped because of their behavior. People make up lame excuses, they move, they have babies, they lose jobs, things happen... it's not always because of behavior issues. 


Aussies are great dogs. If she really is an Aussie-Boxer mix, she will be super high energy and very smart. I don't know much about Boxers really, but I do know about Aussies. Mental exercise is key. No one likes a bored Aussie (or any bored dog for that matter). I'd try and find an obedience class to take with her (if you aren't already planning on doing so). 

It's late I can't think of much more to say haha!

But I really can sense your enthusiasm! I'm very excited for you and I hope things work out with Carly. If sounds like you would be a great home for her from what I've read.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

In all honisty I have met two Boxer Aussie mixes in my life and If may shock you to see me say, they were fabulous dogs! The Boxer seems to take off any "edge" the Aussie may have and the two I met loved to play and were very energetic but they lacked the herding instinct, which IMO is great for a family.


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## sadd3j (Aug 13, 2009)

Buggzter said:


> Anyways, I need to get going. have a good night all, and I'll report more tomorrow. Maybe I'll be less OCD and be able to write less... LOL!!!


Haha, after reading this thread, it's gotten quite exciting and I really hope you guys manage to get Carly and that it works out for you. Keep us updated


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> That may be true but it isn't always true. From most of the homeless dogs I've dealt with, most were not dumped because of their behavior. People make up lame excuses, they move, they have babies, they lose jobs, things happen... it's not always because of behavior issues. .


Yes the kids and moving are the two most common excuses. Around here it's leaving the country and they need to give dog away.

Where I disagree with most dog lovers is they usually place all the blame on the owners 100%. 

I think that people do care for their pets and are willing to make a *reasonable* effort for them to behave, but if the breed or instinct is too strong on a particular breed, people will give up the dog and make excuses.

Moving and kids both are excuses of course as any dog can be moved or be around kids UNLESS they have problems like biting or other problems that the owner cannot resolve and thus is why they give it away and it ends back to the shelter time and time again.

There was this one sheep dog that lived in our old 23 story building. A big huge scruffy thing. It would get in the elevator with people and go* NUTS *barking and trying to herd the people in the elevator. He would bark and go nuts. I saw this one asian lady FREAK out and hide in the corner like she was going to die. After complaints, the poor guy couldn't use the elevator unless it was empty. 

I can't blame the owner for wanting to give up the dog as he made a mistake getting that type of dog for an apartment building living when it is bred to be herding in fields.

The key is not to mess with farm herding breeds that are not bread for home conditions. If you notice there's maybe a couple of dozen 'common' breeds that you see over and over again. I have a poodle/maltese mix that I'm blessed with. He almost trains himself. We never tought him how to sit and he just does it when we tell him to sit or stay or come. He just knows. Common mix good for modern domestic situations.

I wouldn't claim that all dogs are equal and all dogs can be trained the same or have the same temperment. If you tell people that they might believe it and get these dogs when they will end up back at the shelter.

I was just saying that a 'safe' bet for getting a good temperment dog is a greyhound or whippet from a resue IMO. Even then they need their excersised in a closed fence location.

But again I'm not an optomist so my reasoning and logic is different than most people who are natural optomists


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Go for it Buggzter. One of the BEST dogs I ever had I rescued. We trained thru her lack of training issues and all was WELL. 

You can watch videos on dog training and on dog breeds until it is impossible to come up for air.. 

..better to just get this pup you have your heart set on and keep on asking questions.. go to an obedience class and ENJOY YOUR DOG. Your first hand experience with your own dog will give you more than anything you can imagine.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

*** Sigh***

Long story short, she found a home YESTERDAY... 

So, now the personal hunt online, trying to figure out JUST WHAT DOG I WANT TO LOOK FOR!!!! lol!

Ok, so at first I was thinking smaller dog since the appartment, less exercise, usually better with kids and pets... But... I think I'm going to look into another aussie/boxer mix IF I can find one, or maybe some boxer or boxer mix. Boxer is BIGGEST dog I'd dare get, really, as I'm not a "big dog" person, so a mix with a slightly smaller dog would be GREAT. I don't want a hound, terrier, or spaniel even though they are all awesome, since I'm a small-animal person too and don't want my other babies being hunted by my dog, even if they are in their cage...

Ok, I'm just really really really disappointed that we won't get Carly. I WISH either 1) we hadn't gone to see Bishop before we were ready to bring one home, or 2) Carly wasn't there when we went... I nearly wish her adoptive family would bring her back and we could get her, but that would be really hard on her so I actually DO NOT feel that way other than a lingering bit. Heck, I'll leave a note with them saying I'm looking for that sort of dog, and if they get one in before the new year to call us to come in and meet the dog! Then, if Carly comes back we can scoop the sweetie up...

*sigh* Sad day. Anyhoo, this DOES give us more time to prepare, move, my PARENTS won't have to freak out as they are getting here 12/1 and leaving 1/1 (aka, they will have more time with us, unless we find the right dog in the meantime)...

But, if I find the "right" dog for us in the meantime, I'll break down and get him/her. I'm sad, depressed, and nearly want to wipe the 50+ training articles I have downloaded on my computer to read and study (to see all the different opinions on training ways) just in rebellion. My coworkers are all sad for us, too - especially Sam, as she knows what it's like to fall for a dog and not get to bring it home. She's the one with the deaf boxer, and is getting me in touch with the local boxer rescue to see if we can get hooked up with a good dog for our family sometime in the future.

I think I'm going to be gone for about a week. I need time to think, to feel what I want to do next. Tony wants to wait until my parents leave to get the dog as they would FREAK OUT (not exactly animal people nor understand animal people - they have NO idea why my brother and his wife have just two cats and a dog, let alone us with our menagerie we've had over the past years - from our tarantulas and birds and rats and GPs to the 12' burm and my screaming conure!!!)... Thus, it COULD be a present for Becca - we could go out a couple days a week to the shelters and rescues to see about finding the right dog for the family, until we find the right match for our whole family... But at the same time, I want to get one sooner as I'm really really wanting to get a dog now that I've figured out how to deal with all the issues with it. My OCD has found a slight focus, was prepared for how to deal with all the issues and how to solve problems, and now has an empty hole as there is nothing to use my preperations on yet...

So... More study, more decisions for what I want....

I think I'm going for a small to medium dog - not "toy" sized although some are OK matches, and for SURE not bigger than a smallish boxer unless it's the "perfect" dog/boxer which might still be found - willing to go with up to 70 pounds likely IF the dog is "perfectly matching" for us, which for me is mostly a feeling not just facts. I need one that's not too bad allergy-wise, though I've found out that maybe certain foods and/or shampoos can help with that? I also need one that would be OK with my daughter and bird especially, and not attack the guinea pigs through their cage nor any other animal we might get (bird flies!!!), and is not a very-high energy dog nor not too barky as we already have a bird that screams too much and don't need a dog to do the same (we're working on reducing the screaming, but as she's a Jendaya conure there's not much more we can do with her - they are just NOISY NOISY NOISY NOISY *NOISY *birds!!!)... And prefered not to have really-high-maintenance fur/hair such as poodles. BUT, we're willing to deal with any of those issues not being met, other than the noise I think, as long as we find a fair match to our family. I've done searches, found some good breeds.... but it's too soon for me to really think about it other than thinking about finding another boxer/ aussie mix for the family. 

Really, the boxer/aussie mix seems P-E-R-F-E-C-T for my family with the energy, intelligence, sweetness, wanting to please... That's how most of the dogs I've read of from that breed are. If I had a larger area and could own a few barnyard type animals I'd get a full aussie likely, but... I don't have that and won't for a LONG time, so that's not an option as Bear was much much much more Aussie than Carly (he was 6 months old and very very very Aussie, tho some sort of mix.).... 

Again, too close to the loss. Yeah, she's in a good home. It's great for her, and gives us more time to prep. But I had already decided the collar, leash, toys, food, crate, bed, treats, schedule, where she'd go in both appartments, what to do with her while my parents are here and for the nights we bowl... *sigh* Crap. What a day. Was at the shelter right at 9am today, too... And had to wait an hour before the bliss of a TOUGH day at work to kinda forget - pharmacy tech at a BUSY pharmacy giving lots and lots of flu shots and tons of Rxs with a computer system not really working the right way today - chaos, in other words, and it helped. BLEH.

Goodnight. I think I'll be ending this thread. I'll read what you put, but when I'm ready to get back on the searching-for-the-right-dog-for-my-family-horse... I'll start a new thread to be more up-to-date and people don't need to read this long thing (though I'll link back for those who WANT to read). Thanks for all the help and suggestions and links. I read everything, watched everything, went from links from where you linked me to, and got a LOT of great information that I will be able to use for the rest of my life as I will always be an animal person and likely have a dog in my life for most of it in the future.

Again, thank you.

Krystie

*sigh*

ps - I have a feeling for animals, and for me an animal feels "right" to me when it's the right match for me emotionally - the animal and I connect properly, and I can be a good owner FOR that particular animal.... Although i have certain guidelines for the animals, I know I'm willing to go outside of them for the right dog for us. If that dog is found tomorrow, it's found tomorrow. If it's next year, it's next year. I just wish it had been Carly. I think I might always wish my first dog HAD been Carly... Good luck Carly - I wish that you have the BEST life ever imagined a dog could possibly have.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

So sorry that Carly didn't work out but that's just the stars way of telling you that she wasn't the one... but if she comes back to the shelter then she was... during your searching look up a breed called a Bugle (bulldog beagle mix) everything you want with none of the BS.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Buggzter said:


> I have a feeling for animals, and for me an animal feels "right" to me when it's the right match for me emotionally


Yeah that's the polar opposite of my logic and reasoning hehehe.. that way of running my life has burt me in huge ways when I was younger.

Good luck with your search.. Eventually you'll get your doggy. It took me 14 years of reading and hoping and praying and waiting for the right time before I got mine hehehe..


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Hmmm. Bugle? I'll see what I can find. 

And I of COURSE just found a 10-week old puppy... 3000 miles away in California!!!!  Aussie/boxer mix just as we're "ideally" gonna find. *sigh*. we will get the right dog. Eventually.

Thanks you guys. I'll get there. I'm going to keep in contact with Bishop and see if they WILL call me if Carly comes back. I doubt she will though, if she's as sweet and loving as she seemed to be. Dunno. But I'm gonna obsess for a few more days over finding my "Bossie" as i think of them... We'll see.  (yeah, I've made a name for the mix. any worse than a bugg or chugg?? LOL!)

A weekend of sleeping and I'll be doing better. We'll see how it goes. I have to prep for the move in TWO WEEKS and that is scaring me now... *gulp* I'm kinda glad I don't have to stress about a move AND a new dog, but it would be worth it with the right dog, you know? If it's the RIGHT fit, the perfectly matched dog you've dreamed of, it's worth it to be inconvenienced sometimes for the sake of the dog. 

Have a good weekend all!


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

*bangs head on wall* Found TWO now, a 7 month old babe and I emailed the person to see where they are - I THINK it's Louisianna, which is reachable from here... *cough* *sigh* Gotta think about being prepared first, though... If it's ment to be, it's ment to be.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

I just sent you a rather lengthy PM Buggzter


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## Paulinka18 (Nov 7, 2009)

Ive had a lot of dogs growing up and stumbled across the best dog I've ever owned. Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier. When you think terriers you think barking and digging but that's not the case. These dogs are playful, energetic, friendly with people and kids, and best of all Hypoallergenic (non-shedding). I stumbled across this breed when me and my bf were compromising on a dog. We wanted a non-shedding breed that wasn't a barking cat. The poodle wasn't really an option and these dogs are the perfect size. 30 lbs, not too big and not too small. They're considered perfect apartment dogs because they don't need much room but will use it if they have it. 

My dog is extremely intelligent, never pees or poops in the house (taught with discipline) and can go a pretty long time without needing to go to the bathroom. When they're puppies they look like little teddy bears. This is the perfect family dog. I won't ever be getting another breed. The typical pictures do no justice for this dog. If you like you can look at my videos on YouTube by typing Paulina0618 or look on my site fabupet to get an idea of what they look like when cut properly. Good luck and I hope you find your perfect dog!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have had more than a few dogs and I can only tell you this.. my VERY best dogs found ME. I did not choose them. 

My current dog I was at the very beginning of looking for a GSD dog.. and I really had no intention of buying a dog from this person.. but I met the dogs and Atka became mine. She had what I describe as "the look." This is my second German Shepherd.

One of my best PET dogs was Sheba.. a black Lab mix who was dumped on a farm (not my farm) and was preggo. She had 6 puppies and the farmer did not feed her "she is just a stray." Sheba went out and hunted and killed wood chucks and rabbits etc. and she made suer she fed her puppies. When they were weaned this farmer was going to put Sheba down.. and I said, "No. I will take her.." and suddenly I had this dog. There was something about her (plus I admired her ability to think and take care of those puppies). 

If I were you and I was looking for a pet dog I would be going to the local shelter and meeting dogs AFTER you are set up at home. The right dog will choose YOU.. and trust me, it will be the most memorable experience. Funny thing is, it may not be any of the breeds you mention or think you want.. but it won't matter because it will be the right dog. 

There are lots of Sheba's out there looking for YOU.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Paulinka18 said:


> Ive had a lot of dogs growing up and stumbled across the best dog I've ever owned.


Hey I saw your videos and thanks for that recommendation. We both see eye to eye on what is 'desireable' in a breed.

I think picking a dog just on looks, or just on a hunch can be a mistake.



Elana55 said:


> If I were you and I was looking for a pet dog I would be going to the local shelter and meeting dogs AFTER you are set up at home. The right dog will choose YOU.. and trust me, it will be the most memorable experience. Funny thing is, it may not be any of the breeds you mention or think you want.. but it won't matter because it will be the right dog..


I would recommend the exact opposite to basically everything above and is probably the worst advice I could give any perspective new dog owner.

That's just my personal opinion of course and it's not worth a lot 



Buggzter said:


> *bangs head on wall* Found TWO now, a 7 month old babe and I emailed the person to see where they are - I THINK it's Louisianna, which is reachable from here... *cough* *sigh* Gotta think about being prepared first, though... If it's ment to be, it's ment to be.


But if the dog is 7 months and someone gave it up.. don't you think it likely has behavioral problems that will require a *LOT* of effort to work with?

An Ausie is a herding breed of dog. I saw some videos on them last night and basically it will want to chase and herd a moving leaf or 18 wheeler truck as one dog trainer put it. A boxer can also be hard to handle by its nature. Mixing the two and with the puppy not getting proper training..... man.. it can be more than a handful for you. Especially in an apartment or if you're working...

I'm just trying to reason a bit.

If you don't want a puppy, a whippet/greyhound are readily available, doesn't smell, is litter trained, stays out of trouble, is socialized with other animals as the rescues almost always have cats, and you can pick which one has the temperment you like. I think they are such a good bargain. I would have gotten one but my wife doesn't like the way they look.

I just feel that maybe a herd breed that has been given up at 7 months might have behavioral problems that could be a bit too much.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Nothing against Wheaton Terriers at all. Just a note on grooming.. they need a lot of grooming and one of the primary reasons for their turn in at shelters is the grooming needs. 

If you do not want a poodle due to grooming needs (and poodles are excellant dogs.. I have had 2) you probably do not want a Wheaton either. If you can deal with the grooming needs then that is not an issue. I would have recommended a poodle but you did indicate you wanted to avoid grooming. 

Puppies need a lot of work.. going out to potty etc. on a schedule. I stick by my recommendation to get an older dog and going to SEE dogs and meeting dogs. You might find that one or not, but looking will give you experience. 

Get set up FIRST. Parents moved, yourselves moved. You have been w/o a dog for awhile so awhile longer won't hurt anything. Better to do it right than end up wishing you could do it over.


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

I have had multiple Golden Retrievers in a one bedroom apartment. All did fine! They were extremely fit, muscular, active dogs. I have a house now but I have five dogs and a baby. We do just fine. If the dog is a priority in life, then I think it can work out in almost any situation 

Greyhounds and Whippets are beautiful and clean and wonderful, lazy pets that don't bark. My Whippet's breeder had free flight birds and her dogs never bothered them. Her German Shepherd did attack one once, but he miraculously survived (an African grey).

I gotta admit I could never suggest a Wheaten. In the past month alone two have growled at my baby (who was sleeping in a stroller and at least ten feet away). I've boarded one and it was the worst, most hyper, OCD, nutty dog I have ever handled (and I've handled hundreds of dogs) with the possible exception of some springers. It would spin in circles in its crate like a lunatic, even after a long run. I find Springers to be the same way. Definitely, IMHO, avoid those two breeds unless you plan to spend five hours a day hiking off leash with your dog. I wouldn't ever have either one with a child, either, especially not a springer. No offense intended, these are just personal experiences. I am glad someone has a wonderful Wheaten. I hope to meet some one day soon that I can enjoy being around.


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## PandaBear (Sep 6, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> I would get a Bichon Frise because they don't need a large amount of excersise and you can give them lots of hair cuts.
> 
> We have a Poodle/Maltese mix and it's a great puppy. No bad odors, no shedding, no alergies, lots of cool hair styles are possible.. and they are super smart.. it almost trains itself... I would say just get a non shedding puppy like a Bichon, Maltese, Poodle, or any mix of them. I Believe I read that a Poodle is a higher energy dog though as compared to a Bichon.
> 
> ...


I dont agree that bichon would fit into this family, bichons generally do not do well with being left alone for long periods, of time. And they require a lots of grooming even on the puppy clip. They are medium energy dog, but they can adopt to any situation. One major reason why bichons are given up is because of potty training. I know many bichons who took up to a year to potty train.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Mike, is this your first dog? I'm just really curious...

I think you have some untrue misconceptions about herding breeds in general. Watching a video is very different from living with them. A 7 month old puppy of any breed is going through the teenage age and yes when dealing with a high energy herding breed they can be handfuls. But so can any other breed, really. Most dogs surrendered at 6-7 months are there because quite rankly their owners were stupid. I've worked with a lot of young bcs and aussies and most were simply in the shelter because their owners didn't have any time to put into them. It's not because they're horrible or have all these issues. A little training and some exercise is all they need. 

There is this weird thought that herding breeds (especially bcs) are the most difficult dogs ever and I think much of that is just stereotype. I know a lot of first time owners that do well with these breeds as generally they're extremely handler oriented and WANT to please. No, they're not for everyone, nor are any breeds. 

Anyways, I think checking out the shelter is a good place to start. I'd keep breed in mind and characteristics in mind but dogs are individuals, and that is important to remember.


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> Hey I saw your videos and thanks for that recommendation. We both see eye to eye on what is 'desireable' in a breed.
> 
> I think picking a dog just on looks, or just on a hunch can be a mistake.
> 
> ...


First off, it isn't necessarily true that herding dogs that are rehomed are rehomed because of behavioral issues. And if that is the case, then the person who originally got the dog had no idea what they were getting into.

However, I really think that Buggzter is researching both breeds to see what she could possibly be getting into.

So now let's talk a little about Aussies.
They are highly intelligent and it can get them in trouble. If you don't provide them with something to do, they will provide themselves with something to do. I currently have an Aussie who I now have to keep locked in the house most of the day because a neighbor shot her with a BB gun. She would be pretty upset if I hadn't giving her things to do. Right now we're doing some "training" things. Small things like "bring me this" or "helping" me do laundry. These are things she's never done before (I've had other dogs do them, but not her). Training really is a big part of my life with her. Sometimes we see how long she can hold a sit stay. They don't have to be big things. I do have it easy, for most of the play time I have 2 other dogs she can play with. (p.s. mikedavid, she's never tried to herd them or my cats once)

I will say that they do have a herding instinct. But most Aussies I've met aren't so insane that they try to herd falling leaves. My Aussie, was the puppy out of the litter that first started to try and herd the chickens at 8 weeks old. When we bought her, we were told we'd have our hands full. We knew Aussies though, so it was no problem. We never ever let her get bored as a puppy. Training her was very strict. We never even gave her a chance to start up an obnoxious herding instinct on people. You can't train herding instincts out of a dog, but you can redirect that energy to something else.

Buggzter, if you get an Aussie mix you must remember it is a mix. You have no idea at all what you're really getting. Some mixes are quite obvious, and others keep people guessing. You also will have no idea what traits from which breed your dog will have. Just because it's an Aussie mix doesn't mean it's going to be an obnoxious herding machine. No matter what kind of dog you end up with, start training immediately. Try and leave no room for bad habits to start. And that goes for saying for any dog you end up with... whether it has "behavioral issues" or not.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

I would just like to point out that just because you get a certain breed of dog does not mean that it is going to act like the standard for its breed. I really think that you just need to go to the shelter and meet different dogs and take your daughter with you. 

I also think that an older dog is better. The best dog that I ever had was 4 years old when my husband and I adopted him. He was the sweetest, quietest dog ever. The people on the shelter staff hated him for whatever reason. He was amazing.
When we met him we just knew. I really think that is how it is for most people that adopt from a shelter. I didn't care what mix he was after we took him for a walk and spent some time with him. It really didn't matter because he was gentle and quiet yet alert and playful. 

I wish you luck finding that perfect family dog!


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Ya know Mikedavid most dogs are in shelters because of owner stupidity not always because of a fault of the dog. If all people held the same beliefs you seem to about shelter dogs then no one would ever get adopted. There are a TON of great dogs in the shelter for no fault of their own and by telling some one that any shelter dog is going to have behavioral problems is selling those poor dogs short. yes any dog that has spent any amount of time in a shelter is going to have issues... more so from the shelter experience than any baggage they came in with and I think that your comments are doing a great dis-service to shelter dogs. Some of the best dogs I've ever worked with are shelter dogs. They are the most appreciative loving dogs. they KNOW they're getting a second chance and thank you for it every day in spades. Maybe some day you'll get one and discover the joys of a shelter reject for yourself.


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

I think you should reconsider getting a puppy. For inexperienced dog people, puppies and young children really, really don't mix. Puppies are mouthy and easily over-stimulated. How will you handle it if your puppy bites your four year old? It may not be aggression, but it could still break the skin. Adult dogs are easier to train, calmer, and better with children.

So many of the young dogs that show up in shelters get there because families adopted them as puppies, and then they grew into mouthy, pushy, hyperactive, untrained terrors and the family decides they're not safe with the children any more and gets rid of them.

Remember that children can never be left alone with dogs. This goes double for puppies and young dogs. When you are not able to supervise, they will need to be separated. Real life with dogs is not like a sitcom, where dogs are like these idealized best friends/guardians for little kids, and never do anything wrong. In real life, puppies nip, they go to the bathroom on your bed, sometimes they develop behavioral problems, and they need training.

I also want to add that you absolutely can't think of it as a dog for your four year old. It will be completely _your _dog, even if you turn its arrival into a "present" of sorts for your child. It will be your dog, and your responsibility.

ETA: Boxer? Really? There is variation from dog to dog, but they're usually pretty high energy. By high energy, I mean walks aren't enough, they often need daily runs and other methods to burn energy. Will you be prepared if this is the case?


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

With young children in a household, I would say the dog should at least be a year old. Unless you are prepared to be there the WHOLE time. I give my puppy all my time except when I am at the university and I always feel like I need more time with her. 

I have to admit, I'm one of those that underestimated getting a puppy. I was so excited at the time that I went crazy and got the youngest one at the shelter. I love her dearly and she's a wonderful dog but she is A LOT of work and I if I could turn back time I wouldn't pick another puppy because I personally love the work. My boyfriend for example, doesn't really enjoy the work and he was as excited as I was when we got her. He doesn't like taking her for walks and he doesn't like us going out a lone, I have to sneak out for 'potty' breaks sometimes. But anyways, what I'm trying to say is puppies are all cute and everything but for some people, the work(as I call it) gets really old really fast.

Good luck, I hope you find the pup of your dreams


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

canteloupe said:


> I think you should reconsider getting a puppy. For inexperienced dog people, puppies and young children really, really don't mix. Puppies are mouthy and easily over-stimulated. How will you handle it if your puppy bites your four year old? It may not be aggression, but it could still break the skin. Adult dogs are easier to train, calmer, and better with children.
> 
> So many of the young dogs that show up in shelters get there because families adopted them as puppies, and then they grew into mouthy, pushy, hyperactive, untrained terrors and the family decides they're not safe with the children any more and gets rid of them.
> 
> ...


I missed where the OP said she was planing to get a puppy. I though she said she was looking for a one year old or older


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

Keechak said:


> I missed where the OP said she was planing to get a puppy. I though she said she was looking for a one year old or older


At the beginning she said that, but then on this page (after carla didn't work out) she's been talking about puppies. (Ten weeks and seven months.)


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Elana55 said:


> Nothing against Wheaton Terriers at all. Just a note on grooming.. they need a lot of grooming and one of the primary reasons for their turn in at shelters is the grooming needs.


I pass a brush through my puppy for maybe 2 min a day and he has no mats or tangles. the grooming is farily low maintance actually. I thought it would be much worse as everyone says. But 2 min. a day is like nothing at all.

I also think that shelter dogs should be left to the pro's or experienced dog owners. 

It sounds like she needs a cute little addorable puppy from a breeder so she can have her full experience as an owner as she sound like she might like the whole experience.



Foyerhawk said:


> IGreyhounds and Whippets are beautiful and clean and wonderful, lazy pets that don't bark..


Yes I agree! I would still love to have one some day. Maybe my wife will come around and we can get a whippet or greyhound in the future. 

I highly, highly recommend them for any average dog owner who wants to adopt a dog.


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> I also think that shelter dogs should be left to the pro's or experienced dog owners.
> 
> It sounds like she needs a cute little addorable puppy from a breeder so she can have her full experience as an owner as she sound like she might like the whole experience.


Huh? You do realize that most of those dogs at the shelter are or were "cute little adorable puppies from breeders," right? There is no fundamental difference between shelter dogs and other dogs. Most dogs at shelters are simply dogs whose owners couldn't keep them, for one reason or another.

Assuming that dogs at shelters are somehow damaged, or automatically more work than dogs from breeders is wrong-headed.

Above all, dogs at shelters are individuals. Each one is different, and comes from different circumstances. You can't make assumptions about them as a group, because each one is unique and has unique needs.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Dog_Shrink said:


> They are the most appreciative loving dogs. they KNOW they're getting a second chance and thank you for it every day in spades. Maybe some day you'll get one and discover the joys of a shelter reject for yourself.


I'm not knocking shelter dogs. I have had my old boss have serious problems with his adopted dog. 

Honestly, the shelter really can't tell you much about their temperment. Possibly in smaller shelters they can. They can't tell you much about the dog or the real truth of why they were given up. 

My old boss decided to take on a dog from a shelter, only to find out that he bites and was aggressive. They tried everything and could not get it to stop. 

The difference is though, they were not bad dog owners. They did what they fealt was the best they could do including a dog behavioral pro. But alas, to a dog enthusiest, it's never good enough. It's *always* the owenrs fault. If you knew these people as people, you would say he was a great guy. He was actually the best boss I had. He gave a reasonable effort to correct the behavior and ultimately the dog went back to the shelter.

I feel that most shelter dogs should be left to dog enthusiests and pro's.

Not a girl in an apartment who has never owned a dog and is a more mainstreme dog owner. And *CERTAINLY* not a 7 month old Australian/Boxer mix. That is simply asking for trouble. The level of excersise he will need to make him feel satisfied will be tremendous. 

If someone has an Ausie, that is great if you are living in a farm and are a dog enthusiest who will spend full time days with the dog. 

But when you are in an apt. and working full time and to get that kind of mix from a shelter.

And then for some people to recommend this is a good idea.. 

I just can't recommend it and would run far away from the idea.

She'll make her own descision what she wants to do of course.. but I have to voice my opinion. It's only fair everyone voices theirs.

The opinion of whether to purchase a dog is important because it involves a dog so both sides of the issue really matter. This isn't the same of asking about what color of countertop she should buy. 

After what I read and under all the cicumstances, I really do not recommend this kind of mix from a shelter at 7 months. If she was a hardcore dog enthusies, experienced, or a pro that would be different.

I strongly advice against it.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

mikedavid00 said:


> It sounds like she needs a cute little addorable puppy from a breeder so she can have her full experience as an owner as she sound like she might like the whole experience.


Do you really want to know my experience with a "cute little adorable puppy from a breeder"? Seriously, it was a disaster. We loved her and she lived a good long life with us but it was Not Good for the first year or so. If we were less committed to our pets she would have ended up in a shelter early on. I SO wish my family had gotten an older dog as our first dog. Puppies are so difficult for those with no prior dog experience.

My shelter/rescue dogs have been so much easier. I wish I had Toby as my first dog. It would have been a much better experience.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

canteloupe said:


> Assuming that dogs at shelters are somehow damaged, or automatically more work than dogs from breeders is wrong-headed.


There's no real valid reason to give up a dog except for the owner passing, or temperment problems. You can move accross the world and bring your dog with you. There are lots of standard excuses but realistically why do you think people are giving up a 7 month old dog? Moving?

There can be great dogs at shelters, but there's absolutely no garuntee. it's a crap shoot. 

If you adopt a whippet, you can ask the rescue 'i would like the whippet with a very lively personality who is hyper' and you shall get your dog.

I personally think she needs first and foremost a puppy that is known to be a less-likely biting breed, that takes horseplay, and that she can grow up around the child. She seems like she would enjoy the experience.

A young shelter dog.. wow i seriously do not recommend that.

"The study, published in the journal Pediatrics, reported that the dogs *least likely to bite were golden retrievers, Chihuahuas, poodles, and Scottish terriers*. This study, conducted in Denver, Colorado, for the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta."


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

One bad run with one rescue dog isn't a reason to say rescue dogs are bad or not for beginners. All but one of my dogs have come from breeders as I tend to prefer that for my own dogs. But I harbor no illusions that things go perfectly that way (just ask around I've had some real tragedy going that route). I have also worked in a shelter long enough to know many GREAT dogs come through shelters through no fault of their own. 

The dog I've had with the most temperament issues (and he had a LOT)- from a reputable breeder. The dog I had that died from a genetic defect- from a reputable breeder. There are NO guarantees with dogs.

Also, be aware there are ways to get a rescue dog without going through the city shelter. Breed specific rescues and some other rescue groups will have dogs that are fostered in a home so you will often 

Personally, my favorite way to get a dog is to get an adult dog from a breeder that's either retired or has been returned for whatever reason. I've done that three times now and they're just the easiest dogs to integrate.


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> I'm not knocking shelter dogs. I have had my old boss have serious problems with his adopted dog...My old boss decided to take on a dog that bites and was aggressive. They tried everything and could not get it to stop.
> ...
> I feel that most shelter dogs should be left to dog enthusiests and pro's.


This is one anecdote about one dog. Again, you can't judge all shelter dogs based on one. They are wildly varied. I can tell you that the majority of the dogs that go through the three shelters I've volunteered at have no aggression issues. Saying that most shelter dogs should be left to enthusiast and pros is both a death sentence and it's based on inaccurate assumptions. 

Always remember that YOUR dog could end up as one of those dogs in a shelter. It can happen to any dog. So when you make generalizations about shelter dogs, you have to include dogs like yours.



> Honestly, the shelter really can't tell you much about their temperment. Possibly in smaller shelters they can. They can't tell you much about the dog or the real truth of why they were given up.


This also varies from shelter to shelter. Some shelters have in-house behaviorists, and some go to great lengths to match families to the right dog for them. So it varies. But ultimately, it's the OP's responsibility to understand her own needs and to learn how to choose the right dog to fit them.



> And *CERTAINLY* not a 7 month old Australian/Boxer mix. That is simply asking for trouble. The level of excersise he will need to make him feel satisfied will be tremendous.


I do agree with you here. I think an older, less energetic dog would be a better match (although, for the sake of accuracy, I should say that while this mix is likely to be too high energy, there are always exceptions to breed norms).


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

mikedavid00 said:


> There's no real valid reason to give up a dog except for the owner passing, or temperment problems. You can move accross the world and bring your dog with you. There are lots of standard excuses but realistically why do you think people are giving up a 7 month old dog? Moving?


Really? Are you serious? Have you ever looked at Craigslist or looked at a shelter? Half the dogs are given up for lame reasons like 'I'm moving.' Or 'I had a baby'. Or 'dog sheds.' 

As I've said before, I've worked for over a year in a kill shelter (don't anymore) and we got in so many dogs. You cannot paint them all with the 'broken' paint brush. Many are quite honestly darn close to perfect. Some were unruly but that was only because they had never had any training at all. Very few had serious issues and all of them were put to sleep.



> There can be great dogs at shelters, but there's absolutely no garuntee. it's a crap shoot.


ANY dog is essentially a crap shoot.



> If you adopt a whippet, you can ask the rescue 'i would like the whippet with a very lively personality who is hyper' and you shall get your dog.
> 
> I personally think she needs first and foremost a puppy that is known to be a less-likely biting breed, that takes horseplay, and that she can grow up around the child. She seems like she would enjoy the experience.
> 
> ...


The biting statistics are really random and have nothing to do with anything. I have seen others that placed some of those breeds up much higher than that. There is no way to predict bites... there are so many factors when it comes to dog bites that you cannot possibly make a properly controlled study.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

canteloupe said:


> I do agree with you here. I think an older, less energetic dog would be a better match (although, for the sake of accuracy, I should say that while this mix is likely to be too high energy, there are always exceptions to breed norms).


Most people don't consider energy levels in as part of the buying descision. The Ausie/Boxer mix is amongst the hightest levels you may see in a dog.

The question is, what happens when a dogs energy levels are not fully met?


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> There's no real valid reason to give up a dog except for the owner passing, or temperment problems. You can move accross the world and bring your dog with you. There are lots of standard excuses but realistically why do you think people are giving up a 7 month old dog? Moving?


There are tons of reasons that people give up dogs, valid or otherwise. You can't just say those reasons don't happen just because you don't think they are valid.

They do it because they are having financial problems. They do it because they don't have time. They do it because they have a no-pets clause in their lease. They do it because of completely solvable behavioral issues that they never bothered to solve, like basic house training. They do it because dogs need exercise or they become destructive, and they don't feel like exercising their dog. They do it because they got a puppy and puppies need training -- something they didn't bother with.

It's usually young adult dogs simply because most inexperienced and ill-prepared new dog owners get puppies. And then when those puppies prove too much for them to handle, they dump them at the shelter.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

canteloupe said:


> There are tons of reasons that people give up dogs, valid or otherwise. You can't just say those reasons don't happen just because you don't think they are valid.
> 
> They do it because they are having financial problems. They do it because they don't have time. They do it because they have a no-pets clause in their lease. They do it because of completely solvable behavioral issues that they never bothered to solve, like basic house training. They do it because dogs need exercise or they become destructive, and they don't feel like exercising their dog. They do it because they got a puppy and puppies need training -- something they didn't bother with.
> 
> It's usually young adult dogs simply because most inexperienced and ill-prepared new dog owners get puppies. And then when those puppies prove too much for them to handle, they dump them at the shelter.


Yep, seen it a million times!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

And besides, even if a dog is given up because of behavioral reasons, it doesn't mean it wouldn't do better with someone else. If someone gave up their dog because it got on the couch (yes, people do this), that dog would be perfect for me; I love a couch buddy. 

But of the dogs I've personally known that were given up to shelters, the reasons were: 
moving (low-income housing does not take pets, and with so many people losing jobs, this happens a lot, and they have no other options really) 
dog "ran away too much" (this was the reason Toby was given up....duh, have him neutered, and keep him leashed!) 
neighbors complained about dog for no reason and the AC officer was harassing the family (this was why Moose was given up) 
"the kids aren't taking care of her" (this was a GREAT dog, I would have taken her if they asked me before they took her to the shelter....sadly I think she was PTS)
"she's pregnant" (like that's her fault?)
And, in one sad instance, the dog was taken to the shelter because the husband was beating her and the wife felt the dog would be better off dead than beaten. Yes, she was killed at the shelter (shot, because that's how the city shelter operated at that point).
And so on. 

Anyway, I don't know of any dog that ended up in a shelter because of serious behavioral issues. Mostly they're there because the owners were just plain lazy.

Also because young adult dogs aren't cute anymore and the novelty has worn off. So off they go!


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

I can't speak for all shelters but the one in my area does temperament tests on their dogs and I'm sure these tests are nothing special but if a dog had any serious behavioral issues, they would not put it up for adoption. They would PTS it as it is a high kill shelter and they get dozens of dogs/pups every day. I mentioned this somewhere else, but also at my shelter, we get a lot of young huskies. Never any puppies...I wonder why...

Also, breeders aren't the only place to get a cute puppy. Our shelter gets entire litters almost every day. Do new born pups have behavior issues? No they do not.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

I used to volunteer as an assistant dog trainer at our local shelter. They do intensive temperment testing on all new dogs, plus they have dog trainers working with the dogs on their basic obedience. Dogs with behaviour issues were a rarity in my shelter. The worst were simply lacking in obedience, and had some trouble with pulling on leash or jumping up. Nothing major and nothing that couldn't be solved with some basic obedience training.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> .
> 
> "The study, published in the journal Pediatrics, reported that the dogs *least likely to bite were golden retrievers, Chihuahuas, poodles, and Scottish terriers*. This study, conducted in Denver, Colorado, for the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta."


Sorry but that study is a load of bunk. In the last 6 months I have had to refer 3 goldens back to their breeders for genetic agressive disorders, chihuahuas, don't even get me started on them... I have more aggression cases involving chihuahuas than any other breed... and I have also seen some very aggressive scotties. Terriers aren't afraid to use their teeth AT ALL. 

There is actually another post here listing dogs by breed and bites incurred by those breeds... read it and enlighten yourself to the fact that the journal where you get your information is NOT published by people who regulate the dog industry such as the CDC or any humane agency, which to me makes me question the validity of their findings. A pediatrics journal is most likely getting thier information from bias sources or victims of dog bites who are not educated at determining a dog's breed. Could you post a link to this article you are referring to so that I can explore it further?

http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/8689-dog-bite-statistics-breed.html


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

I understand the want and the reasoning behind being selective when choosing a dog, especially when there's a child in the household, but I would never "discriminate" against shelter dogs. Doing so is like saying, "I don't want to adopt a child because you don't know what problems they may have" it just seems a bit ridiculous to me to say that shelter dogs are not up to par for some people. While shelter dogs have different backgrounds, I have to agree with what everyone else is saying on here, you can never have a guaranteed "perfect" dog, even if it comes from a breeder.


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

I think this is being turned into way too complicated.

I have five dogs, three are rescues of young'ish ages of an active, large breed. One is a PUPPY German Shepherd and the 5th is Whippet that is pretty much art that breathes  But he is 12 years old and never lived with kids until now. I have a seven month old "little explorer" (human son, that is!) and I don't have problems. It's NOT rocket science, but maybe I haven't got a case since I am a "natural" with dogs and quite experienced.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Ya know Mikedavid most dogs are in shelters because of owner stupidity not always because of a fault of the dog. If all people held the same beliefs you seem to about shelter dogs then no one would ever get adopted. There are a TON of great dogs in the shelter for no fault of their own and by telling some one that any shelter dog is going to have behavioral problems is selling those poor dogs short. yes any dog that has spent any amount of time in a shelter is going to have issues... more so from the shelter experience than any baggage they came in with and I think that your comments are doing a great dis-service to shelter dogs. Some of the best dogs I've ever worked with are shelter dogs. They are the most appreciative loving dogs. they KNOW they're getting a second chance and thank you for it every day in spades. Maybe some day you'll get one and discover the joys of a shelter reject for yourself.


Well, you know.. owning one dog and having one boss with one dog and looking at videos makes one an expert.  

Having had SEVERAL rescue dogs I never had a bad one, had one exrtremely good one and all of them needed training. 

Most were given up because the owners did not want to take the time to train, take the time to walk, take the time a dog needs.. and the cute puppy ended up a nuisance and at the shelter. 

The ones I got were untrained so I trained them and they were not a problem. ALL of them worked off leash and all lived long lives. 

Not a single dog I have had or dealt with in my life had a behavioral issue that I could not handle. I do not have the expereince of someone like WVasko so I am sure there ARE dogs I could not handle. I think that is the minority of dogs, shelter or otherwise.



canteloupe said:


> There are tons of reasons that people give up dogs, valid or otherwise. You can't just say those reasons don't happen just because you don't think they are valid.
> 
> They do it because they are having financial problems. They do it because they don't have time. They do it because they have a no-pets clause in their lease. They do it because of completely solvable behavioral issues that they never bothered to solve, like basic house training. They do it because dogs need exercise or they become destructive, and they don't feel like exercising their dog. They do it because they got a puppy and puppies need training -- something they didn't bother with.
> 
> It's usually young adult dogs simply because most inexperienced and ill-prepared new dog owners get puppies. And then when those puppies prove too much for them to handle, they dump them at the shelter.


So true. I am on a different path these days with dogs and training but if I wanted a pet and that is all I wanted, I would go to the shelter and get a truly wonderful dog.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Elana55 said:


> So true. I am on a different path these days with dogs and training but if I wanted a pet and that is all I wanted, I would go to the shelter and get a truly wonderful dog.


My whole opinion on this is based off the context of a mainstreme dog owner. A casual dog owner. There are tons and tons of them on Youtube. 

People have a threshold of what is exceptable for training time.

Those who are more 'into dogs' or 'dog enthusiasts' which are the majority of the people on tis website need to look at their neighbour and remember who the average families are. 

I consider myself and average guy and my awsome puppy is here right now reseting under the coffee table. 

But honestly I do not have the time and patience (with all the other stuff going on in my life) to train and excersise an Ausie/Boxer mix. I admit I can't do it with my lifestyle becuase I'm every day folk. 

This is why I do not think it's a good idea to encourage someone to get that kind of breed, especially from a shelter. 

All households deserve a dog, but I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect everyone to spend 10x the effort to train a breed they did NOT KNOW in the first place it would be that difficult to train. 

My ex co worker loved the Siberian Husky. Yes.. a very iconic dog. In all the pictures and paintings. 

So she got one from a breeder and brought the puppy back to her small town house in the city with barely any back yard. 

You know the rest of the story.

The thing is, NO ONE warned her of the energy requirements of that kind of dog. No one was thre to warn her what happens when a dog doesn't get it's energy requirements what it will do. Her simple mind thinks a dog is a dog and they just 'look different'. 

That particular breed can last excersising for DAYS straight.

When I was younger I used to think all breeds were the same, but the dogs just 'looked different'. Thus I thought a Lab was the same as Sheep Dog and the temperment is 100% the owners result. A lot of people still think this.

I dont know what else to say but *I would get ONLY Greyhounds, Whippets, and Poodle/Maltese/Havenese/Bichon breeds and mixes for myself*. I probably would never own another breed except the above.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Mike, what are you _talking about_? 

You don't think the OP should get the mix she's interested in because _you _don't have the time and patience to exercise it. Did she ask _you _to exercise her dog?

You think everyone should get their dogs as puppies from breeders because shelter dogs are dangerous and unpredictable. So how do you account for the failure your friend experienced with her purebred Siberian Husky?

The OP seems quite capable of evaluating her own life and habits. She has also asked for and taken into account some very good advice. The ability to research and learn is really all that is required to choose a great dog.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

FilleBelle said:


> The OP seems quite capable of evaluating her own life and habits..


Not if she has not been explained correctly of what to realistically expect when she gets this kind of dog. 

I think you might take for granted how little people know about dogs. 

My friend got a Syberian Husky becuase it looks pretty. At the time, even I had no idea about this kind of dog. The breeder said she had her dogs in the past in some movies. The puppy was also CKC registered.

Not one person along the way gave her the straight goods about owning this type of dog and what it was bred for.

Keep in mind that most breeds were bred during times that we used to 'live off the land'. We are now modernized and times are different this days with families being away from the home 10 hours a day each day and having almost no yard space or parks near by. Just the work day and cooking dinner alone can eat up most of the night for many families. 

So I urge you to try to see things from the mainstreme dog owners point of view. If you want whats best for the dog, you'll want to place it with the best owners for the dog. 

Also I was just mentioning dogs that I would personally own. Not that she should own. I do recommend that she not mess with a hearding breed and various types of high requirement dogs under her circumstances.. That I can say for sure.

But I'm a new dog owner so my opinion isn't worth much.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

She HAS been correctly explained the issues that could arise. Many people have said both breeds are very high energy. Many people have also recommended an adult. I agree with this advice. 

But I'll say again you have little experience with herding breeds and show repeatedly you don't understand them. These things you are saying are not facts at all, they're opinions. Please don't treat them as facts.

Loads and loads of casual owners have boxers and aussies with ZERO problem. It's great you like a certain kind of dog. I and many other people do not like those kinds of dogs. I would not own the dogs you've mentioned at all. People have different tastes so I think it is silly to keep saying what you'd get. YOU are not the original poster here so your opinion of these breeds really doesn't matter.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

mikedavid00 said:


> But honestly I do not have the time and patience (with all the other stuff going on in my life) to train and excersise an Ausie/Boxer mix. I admit I can't do it with my lifestyle becuase I'm every day folk.
> 
> This is why I do not think it's a good idea to encourage someone to get that kind of breed, especially from a shelter.


This thread isn't about you and what you can do. Offering the OP advice on the type of dog YOU can own doesn't help HER.

I think your opinion is not worth much, not because you're a new dog owner, but because you are not reading the thread and therefore do not have all the information. She has been clear about the amount of time, space, money, and just plain energy her family has for this dog. She has also gotten to know the dogs she was interested in in the past and we can assume she will do so with future dogs until she finds one she believes is suited to her family.

I am sorry that your friend didn't do her research before buying her Husky. That is a problem easily solved...do research before buying a dog.


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## ValtheAussie (Apr 19, 2009)

Personally, I think that you folk are plenty busy enough without the responsibilities of a dog. Just my suspicion, don't take offense.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> Not a single dog I have had or dealt with in my life had a behavioral issue that I could not handle. I do not have the expereince of someone like WVasko so I am sure there ARE dogs I could not handle. I think that is the minority of dogs, shelter or otherwise.


I don't really belong on this thread, one quick statement, there are thousands upon thousands of dogs in shelters that are great dogs. They are just homeless. After reading a number of mikedavid's thread/replies etc, at the end of which he admits to being a "new dog owner and his opinion isn't worth much" I agree fully with his disclaimer and would hope that people take his disclaimer seriously before using any of his training or dog care advice. His dog knowledge is not from personal experience and it needs growth. Good luck with your new dog mike.


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## mrslloyd09 (Jul 12, 2009)

So OP how goes the search? My hubby and I were in a similar situation where we fell in love with a dog and he ended up being adopted before we coul get to him. We were looking for a companion for our girl and the little guy we fell in love with was this beautiful long haired dachsund from the same rescue we got Mandie from. I had my heart set on him and when I contacted the rescue, he had already been adopted. I was so sad and we're still searching for the right "little brother" for Mandie. I hope you still are searching hardcore for the perfect addition to your family and I hope it proves as fruitful for you as it did for us when we found our two year old rescue darling.


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Not one person along the way gave her the straight goods about owning this type of dog and what it was bred for.



I think your friend's probem lies here: a good Husky breeder, well the ones I know of, would never let a dog go without taking the time to talk with the new owner about the breed to make sure they know if owner and dog are a good fit.

As for the OP, I think he/she is perfectly capable of figuring things out: the simple fatc that this person is here inquiring about dogs shows that they do not fall in your "average owner" category who would get a dog without getting information first.

The fact that an Aussie mix needs a lot of exercise and stimulation has been stated multiple times. I own an Aussie mix myself and live in the city, and my dog is perfectly well-adjusted and exercised. It's all about getting information.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

Yes an aussie/boxer is going to be high energy, but I think the OP can be capable. They've already shown they're above the majority of dog owners by researching first.

From personal experience, I can say that I have an aussiexlab who is currently 6 months old. She is one of the best dogs I've had the pleasure of knowing, let alone owning. She's an absolute sweetheart and extremely obedient. At six months she has the impulse control to resist chasing her ball when in a stay until I release her, which is major for her because a tennis ball is the greatest thing there is in her book. For that matter she has the impulse control to resist greeting other puppies in petco when in a stay until I tell her too. It all comes down to proper exercise and training.

If you feel you are capable of it, then by all means I'd say go for it, but please look in a shelter. No reputable breeder is going to mix these two breeds.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> There is this weird thought that herding breeds (especially bcs) are the most difficult dogs ever and I think much of that is just stereotype. I know a lot of first time owners that do well with these breeds as generally they're extremely handler oriented and WANT to please. No, they're not for everyone, nor are any breeds.


I agree, Having grown up with an aussie and owned a border collie mix they are astoundingly smart, very easily trained, and very loyal and protective.

They just need reasonable exercise, meaning not locked in a house 6 days a week without walks or daily game of fetch.

My two girls now are herders, GSD's, same deal. Very smart, very loyal, just need a walk every day or some fetch to be happy.

To me they are quite easy dogs to own, as long they aren't treated as couch potatoes and ignored and expected to behave that way. Very good for active young people.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

upendi'smommy said:


> No reputable breeder is going to mix these two breeds.


That's actually not true. These days they are making efforts to create new breeds and new associations have been established. 

For instance, my dog is actually recognized and I feel is worth showing becuase of its even blend of maltese and poodle. Also its temperment.

*American Canine Hybrid Club *= Malt-A-Poo
*Designer Dogs Kennel Club* = Malt-A-Poo
*Designer Breed Registry* = Malt-A-Poo

There are also serious efforts being made especially with the Doodles. They are really trying to create low energy, non shedding dog for families.

These days owners can be away from the house for 11 hours a day including gridlock and traffic. Also homes are further away than every from the workplace and people simply cannot dedicate the amount of time to their dogs that they used to. 

Action is being taken and that is why there are so many Doodles around and being worked on by breeders. 










If I was to breed myself, I would do a designer breed and attempt to stabalize it. Everyone wants Doodles these days. Even my neighbour has one. 

The puppy to your right with the brown pigment is the winner here. Has the Lab characteristics WITH a non shedding coat so it will demand top dollar. Could be thousands of dollars if it's a smaller female.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

> If I was to breed myself, I would do a designer breed and attempt to stabalize it. Everyone wants Doodles these days. Even my neighbour has one.


No, not everyone wants doodles. 



> There are also serious efforts being made especially with the Doodles. They are really trying to create low energy, non shedding dog for families.
> 
> These days owners can be away from the house for 11 hours a day including gridlock and traffic. Also homes are further away than every from the workplace and people simply cannot dedicate the amount of time to their dogs that they used to.


I am actually quite a fan of the well bred labradoodles I've met but it's just plain stupid to say 'everyone wants one'. Everyone does not want one. I personally don't want one and obviously many other people don't either because I see lots of kinds of dogs around. That's the wonderful thing about dogs... something for everyone. 

Labradoodles are good dogs but they DO have some potential downsides. They require more grooming than most breeds. They'll require clipping or a lot of brushing to keep the coat long. Poodles and labs are both sporting breeds and taking after that doodles tend to be high energy and smart. Parading them around as the miracle dog that poops gold isn't going to do anything good. I would in no way call them low energy or insinuate they need less time than other dogs. That's just not good for the dog.



> American Canine Hybrid Club = Malt-A-Poo
> Designer Dogs Kennel Club = Malt-A-Poo
> Designer Breed Registry = Malt-A-Poo


None of those are remotely reputable registries.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

How is breeding a S.Poodle and a Lab together going to get you a dog that is low energy and can be left alone longer....am I missing something here?


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

All hybrid and designer breeders are doing is ruining the work that has been put into breeding for type and standard for hundreds of years by REAL breeders who actually care about the breed and aren't trying to produce a marketable goldmine peddled to an ignorent public for nothing but pure profit... there is sooo much debate even amongst hyrid breeders that they are at least another couple hundred years away from being taken seriously. when making a "new" breed of dog they were developed with a specific intenet and purpose. These doodle breeds serve no purpose aside of over glorified over priced mutts. 
And like laurelin said those clubs aren't crap.. I could take my mutt delux and find 20 different registeries that would "register" him. It means nothing but a piece of paper for the ego maniac that feels that having a slip of paper somehow validates their mutt. "These lesser quality registries are sometimes referred to as paper mills for puppy mills. Some registries will allow the registration of designer mutts, sometimes called "new rare breeds", for breeding purposes. Puppy buyers are sometimes fooled into paying pay hundreds of dollars for a "registered" mutt. Being a registered mutt does not make a dog any different from a similar one sitting in a shelter, and it certainly does not turn a mutt into a purebred. Any registration can often cause the price of a mutt to skyrocket, when the paper it's printed on may only be worth using for housebreaking. Many of these breeders are breaking away from AKC and now registering their pups (often found for sale in pet shops nationwide) with other, less restrictive, registries. Regardless of where you get your pup, if your pup is registered with anything other than AKC or United Kennel Club, the chances of your pup being bred by an irresponsible breeder rises dramatically. It's up to you, the potential puppy buyer, to educate yourself and to avoid being part of the puppy mill/ backyard breeder problem. Do not put your money into the pockets of irresponsible breeders under any circumstances. The only thing they'll feel is getting hit in the wallet. 

Red Flags!!!!! Be careful of kennel club/registry sites that have: 

Recognizing mixed breeds (such as Cockapoo) for breeding purposes 
Been founded around a single new breed that someone has recently "created", often not even set in breed type or has vague standards - that can mean the breed isn't "breeding true". 
No competitions to prove the dogs' qualities (or links to competition pages that go nowhere and the site is not very new). 
No suggestion or education about OFA type health testing/screening, and none or very few of the breeders seem to know what it is. 
No limited registrations available. 
Advertising sections for breeders, and most ads don't mention health clearances beyond a vet check if at all. 
Listing private breeders as "breed clubs", or breed clubs are composed of a very small group of just a few breeders. 
Breed standards missing or have very, very broad descriptions - can cover up the fact that the dogs are really mutts. Multiple breed standards recognized by single registry, for a single breed, can cover up lots of problems too. 
Clubs that have same or similar initials to more reputable clubs (to confuse people who haven't done their homework). UKC can be United Kennel Club or Universal Kennel Club, CKC can be Canadian Kennel Club or Continental Kennel Club, FIC can easily be confused with FCI, etc.... 
Supported mainly by a pet store, pet store chain, or other special interest groups who's interest may not be the welfare of dogs, but the welfare of their wallets. 
Clubs and registries who have emphasis on what the registration certificate looks like ("includes a gold seal for only $5 more") " http://www.wonderpuppy.net/kc.htm

The only true registeries are those that show in national and international competition and point dogs according to the breed standard. Those doodle abominations can't even decide on a working standard let alone what being a true hybrid entails...


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

Uh....

Yeah.

Walking away. That's best.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Foyerhawk said:


> Uh....
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> Walking away. That's best.


I wish I had your self control.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

wow have we ever made a shambles outta Buggzters thread... she's gonna be like what the hell when she gets back to this...


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

IME herders are the EASIEST to train! LOL!



> All households deserve a dog


Very much NOT true



> I consider myself and average guy and my awsome puppy is here right now reseting under the coffee table.


Next to all the electrical cords you have all over your floor?



> But honestly I do not have the time and patience (with all the other stuff going on in my life) to train and excersise an Ausie/Boxer mix. I admit I can't do it with my lifestyle becuase I'm every day folk.


That is YOU. YOU are not the OP



> The thing is, NO ONE warned her of the energy requirements of that kind of dog. No one was thre to warn her what happens when a dog doesn't get it's energy requirements what it will do. Her simple mind thinks a dog is a dog and they just 'look different'.


Well she could have warned herself by, oh, I don't know. RESEARCHING?! It's not our fault or anybody else's if she was too lazy or ignorant to do so.



> I think you might take for granted how little people know about dogs.


You have shown us with every post how little you know...



> But I'm a new dog owner so my opinion isn't worth much.


It wouldn't mean much if you'd own your dog for 10 years instead of 10 days and still spread this misinformation,

And please, for the love of God. It is *mainstream*.


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## Lizmo (Sep 21, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Thus I thought a Lab was the same as Sheep Dog and the temperment is 100% the owners result. A lot of people still think this.


Really? _R e a l l y ? ? _

I've NEVER met a person who doesn't _atleast_ know that Goldens usually have pretty decent, loving temperments and Border Collies are high energy breeds. 

If you knew about sheepdogs, you would know it's not spelled Sheep Dog. It's Sheepdog.


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

Wow, OK. My computer broke for a week, and I'm back.

My communication skills are kinda... broken, I guess, by the fact that I don't think in words and have sometimes a hard time getting them back into words after reading responces.  It's annoying, but I deal with it.

As I've known a few boxers in the past, and this week was introduced to a dozen more (actually, a bakers' dozen: 13), I think I'm up for that breed's needs gener- and the dogs' owners think I could handle it as well, and so could my daughter as she got along very well with MOST of the boxers we met (some were a little too rough in their play for her, but those two were REALLY hyper according to the owners for the breed). I have not PERSONALLY met any other Aussie/boxer mix, but all those that I've talked to say they are just about the same energy needs as a boxer - just more agile and a bit more of the smarts of Aussies rather than boxers. Again, each individual is different. *sigh* I'm not sure if I'd go in that direction or not when we really are ready - I'll see what happens, but Tony I think is going to want to find a fairly local dog and not have to search F-O-R-E-V-E-R for the dog we want and then not be sure of the attitude and all... 

BUT, I do know that an Aussie/boxer mix is extrememly unlikely, no matter what we decide. I AM talking with lots of dog owners in person so I can learn as much as I can, and I'm interacting with the dogs in thinking about what it is to own one instead of just playing with someone else's dog (just like playing with someone's baby is NOT like having one of your own!!!). Have you ever just fallen in love with a certain dog, and decided that you are willing to make it work for the sake of the dog? 

Again, I'm not too busy - if you discount the time we bowl, we're home more than other families as my schedule and Tony's schedule are different. If you then just say that we are out two evenings a week doing other things for a variety and ONE of those days I'm home until noon... Thus I'd say we have more time for our animals than many families with two full-time jobs. No, dogs that need you home nearly all the time would NOT work for us. But dogs that would be OK with us giving a 1 hour walk in the morning, 1-3 hours of outside play time in the evenings, and all day on weekends while they are crated or in the kitchen during our work hours with 1-3 potty breaks on those work days... I'd say that's enough for most dogs.

Again, the appartment is about 1400 square feet, and there is a HUGE dog-play-area (likely 50x75 feet, and I'm NOT exagerating - I was thinking 75x100+, but didn't want to go over) that is grassed and fenced where we can play as long as we want. It would be no different from a 3-bedroom HOUSE with a large yard, where the people crate the dog while they are at work, other than the fact that the neighbors are a little closer and can hear more.

So I'm revamping my criteria for a dog:
1) Good with kids, including able to handle a baby either when the dog comes into the home or having a baby ENTER the home.
2) NOT "high" energy, OK with most days having 2-4 hours of activity plus downtime with family but Mondays having just the long morning walk (Saturday and Sunday have HIGH energy output days, and Tuesday a long walk and lots of evening play to make up for Monday).
3) Willing to put up with our Conure - at least be able to live in the same home with her, as she'll live longer than they do if she doesn't get strangled first by my husband (JUST KIDDING!!!!)
4) Lower on the shedding scale, as Tony is slightly allergic to dog dander (not really a big issue, though), and I am NOT big on cleaning daily - although for the right match for our family, I'm more than willing to bend on that rule as long as Tony can deal with it.

I'm also wondering on the whole good-with-kids issue... With dogs from shelters or rescues, you don't KNOW their history most of the time. Tony and I are talking about having a baby sometime in the next couple years. We want to make sure of a couple things. 1) the dog is of course good with Becca. 2) the dog is good with other kids, even babies.

How do we find out if a dog is good with other kids? How about with babies, as I don't want to put any babies at risk, and I also want to make sure that the dog I'm getting would do well in my home and with a baby when we have the child. I know some of you will say to have the child first and the dog later, and we ARE considering that. Truely we are. 

Since that one factor is the BIGGEST part of what dog will be good for us (as an individual, not as a breed - that's a separate subject), we have even thought about looking for a younger pup than we otherwise would. We would only do that IF our schedules changed so we had more time for training the puppy, but... Even at that we'd look for a shelter/rescue dog that was already partially trained and work CLOSELY with a few big dog people we know in our area to raise the dog well...

Also, as we are kinda leaning boxer (biggest reason for me: great with kids, and with the variety of personalities I likely could find one on the calmer end of the scale for Becca's sake although I don't mind the knocking down - Becca does though!), I want to make sure I get in contact with the right rescues, the right shelters for that... And I want to make sure I know what to look for in a rescued/sheltered boxer. If it's from a rescue, I doubt I'd adopt one that was not fostered with children in the family, or interacting a LOT with kids so as I KNOW how the dog does with children - it's my biggest factor. We're also not looking into getting a dog right NOW - we've at least 6 weeks until we want to bring one home (we've talked, and as the one we REALLY liked is not possible we want to wait until my parents at least are gone, if not waiting until after we have a baby which is also quite possible - it depends on how things are going with our jobs and with Becca at the start of the year).

Now, we're NOT set on a boxer, I'm still looking at all the small dogs too - it all depends on what dog "fits" with us properly at the shelters. If we got a puppy, we'd decide on a breed first and then pick the personality that fits us. Instead, we're looking at size/breed/energy and picking the personality from there with what fits us. But I do think it's likely a maltese or Boxer (yeah, two TOTALLY different sizes, but both GREAT with kids - downside of a maltese is the grooming, downside of the boxer is the higher-possible energy needs, though we'd look for one that is a little calmer than the average... I know there are other downsides, those are just the biggest). But then, the fact that we're looking at shelter/rescue dogs we'll be likely getting a mutt - but I do think I know what I'm looking for.

I've read many of the other posts around here about all the different issues, the breeds, the good parts and the bad... What brands are good and not... I think I know what I want for a leash, crate, collar, harnesses, food, bowls, treats, toys, what I'm looking for in a vet, and what I'm looking for in a groomer if I get a dog that needs a pro groomer. 

Only think I need to still choose is the dog, and WHEN I'm getting the dog. 

If anyone has suggestions for what rescues are good and bad in my area (west coast of Florida, a bit south of Tampa), I want to talk to multiple so as I can get all the pre-adoption issues taken care of - then when we're ready to bring a dog home we have everything else taken care of. We also can educate ourselves on what dogs the rescues feel would work best for us one-on-one (it's HARD to really get a feel for people, as well as give a REAL perspective on my family, just online on a forum - and with my odd communication issues it's not any easier. Plus then I can really see a person's reaction, not misread a person's written statements - very easy to do onine.). 

One of my friends, who has raised over a dozen dogs of all sizes with and without her family (she's 23), feels that if we do enough research and are willing to do the amount of walking the dog would need and whatever else is needed, we could handle most breeds of dogs. She IS going to help us look at dogs when she's able, as well as researching different dogs and handling them, training them, and she's talking to us about what obedience classes would work best for us and whatever dog we get. She did feel Carly would have been a challenge for us, but that we could have handled it with the excercise and obedience classes she suggested. She DOES suggest to be careful with which boxer we do get IF we go that route, and we'll have her help us choose to make sure we have a good match - taking in the opinions of a LOT of individuals for the choice. She's a lot more open with other dog choices (the small dog breeds, really), as many of the ones we've talked about more than fit in our "needs" for the most part. 

But just because a dog fits what we are looking for logistically, doesn't mean that's a dog we're really interested in...Although, we know there are dogs that are NOT good for us (certain dogs of any breed that are "ideal", even, as each are individuals). We'll get there, either sooner or later.

Thanks everyone - I'm out for now, but I'll be back most days (packing for the move).


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## Buggzter (Oct 31, 2009)

ps - I HAVE researched about how much dogs do need exercize, of many different breeds. I do see how much pure Aussies need. I see how much various boxers need. I see how much pugs need, malteses need, bishons need, APBTs need... I've looked into it all. I also have met high energy dogs that will be excercized until exhaustion the day before and after a day where the owners cannot do much with the dog other than a half-walk... They think that a full hour's walk on Monday, following a TON of excercize on Saturday and Sunday and then followed by a lot of evening excercize Tuesday would be good for most higher energy dogs, although I'm not likely up to a true high-energy dog no matter what - which is why I'd be VERY careful to find a lower-energy needing boxer IF we go that way (again, IF). I'm not saying I need a low-energy dog. 2-5 hours a day during the week should be sufficient for any dog (with the one hour on Monday and much more time on Saturday and Sunday), according to most of the people I've talked to.

If 2 VERY ACTIVE hours daily plus more in-home play time isn't enough for a dog, then I wouldn't get that dog. I'm up for 1-2 hours daily of rigorous play/walking/running, which every person I've talked to says is enough. As the dog park at my complex is around 30x50 conservatively, and the dog would likely be allowed in the kitchen with a baby gate while we're at work (again, Tony giving 1-3 potty breaks each day, depending on the dog's need). 

I also DO understand that dogs will howl, bark, and destroy incessantly if they are not kept mentally and physically active enough - and we don't want that. I'm not kidding myself about how much work a dog will be. Heck, a BABY is a ton of work, and a child even more. I KNOW it will be work, and I know that I've decided I'm up to it and an willing to do the work needed for the dog's NEEDS. That's also why picking the right individual is also important - even if MOST dogs of a certain breed need barely any excercize outside, there will be those that need LOTS of outdoor time. It is a personal issue, depending on the dog. Thus, we WILL try to pick carefully, and take our time doing just that. No awe-it's-so-cute-at-the-pet-store dogs, it will always be a situation where we need to sleep on the decision. We slept on Carly, spoke with people. We made up our minds but it didn't work out. Some think it would have been horrible, but that IS from generalizations knowing both breeds. I understand that, and Carly WAS an individual - not necesarily what her breeding-mix would "normally" be nor maybe what our impression said of her either. No way to know though. From here out, we ARE still going to research and see what we find.

I'll update as I know more.  Have a great night everyone, and good luck with the work week!


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## the_mighty_khan (Nov 10, 2009)

I have a boxer mix. I walk her in the mornings and in the evenings when I get home. We also play and do training for a while in the evenings. That's about 3 hours of exercise per day during the week and more on the weekends. She is not destructive or neurotic at all. 

There's a boxer rescue in Tampa. This girl is apparently good with cats, so she may do okay with your conure too. Of course you'd need to speak with the rescue workers about it. Good luck with your search.


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## Siye (Sep 8, 2009)

This is just my 2 cents, but a boxer could be a bit much to handle. I'd recommend a more newbie breed and a smaller size.

They may be generally good with children, but a boxer is still a 50 pound dog. Personally I wouldn't be comfortable leaving a 4 year old toddler with ANY medium sized or large dog (i would be wary with small ones too) unsupervised for any period of time. The only exception perhaps... would be after years of trust and no problems. But I've never been a parent so perhaps my opinion holds little validity in this case.

Boxers can also be stubborn too... this just means you may have to be more patient and persistent with training.

I hope the best with your search, but my key factors would be.

1. An older dog (atleast 1-2 years)
2. A breed known to be more "docile" and low energy
3. Smaller in size. I know small doesn't necessarily mean "easy" of an "angel" but atleast it's "physically" safer with such a small child.


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## hgreen (Oct 15, 2009)

LOL mikedavid!

I would actually suggest the average medium to large sized dog over a small breed. Toy breeds an terriers can be a bit snappy.
I would however recommend a Westie if you're going after a small doggy. They tend to do better with kids than most terriers, and are playful and active but still do well in apartments. In my experience they are also not super clingy and don't mind hanging out during the day while you are at work.

I'd also look into a greyhound rescue. I don't have any personal experience beyond simply meeting a few, but I hear racing dogs take their retirement very seriously and are mild mannered and good with kids. Good luck, it sounds like you are doing everything right!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

kafkabeetle said:


>


Not trying to hijack this thread but I think Kafkabeetle, you are getting the Australian Cattle Dog Mixed u with the Australian shepherd. That pup you posted looks very much like an Australian Cattle Dog mix more so than an Aussie Shepherd mix.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

kafkabeetle said:


> I know the difference. But she stated earlier that the aussie mix she had found was short haired. The coloration of a short-haired aussie mix sounds pretty similar to a blue heeler/ACD to me. For instance, the mottled spot on the face of "Hawk" in your signature is pretty similar to what you'd see on an ACD (IMO). Am I mistaken?
> 
> It's interesting you should mention this though because the rescue we got Sydney from said she was an "Aussie mix". It wasn't until we saw she was full grown at 18 pounds and her fur stayed short that I did some research to see what she really was. I actually have a thread going right now for speculations on what she's made of. I now have your vote!
> 
> But back to the original poster, I really do think it's the individual and not the breed that matter, especially in a mixed breed where 1. There's no way of knowing exactly what breeds are in them and 2. Different aspects of each breed could manifest themselves in unpredictable ways.


ACD's Don't come in Merle, they come in Roan, Roan is mottling of pigmented and white hairs together. Merle is patches of Grey Hairs next to patches of black hairs (for blue) Merle and Roan are seperate genes, aussies don't come in Roan.

People commonly get them mixed up because the Roaning can apear like a grey patch from far but when you look closely you will see seperate pigmented and white hairs _not_ solid patches of grey hairs.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

A breeds accepted colors are something that would be likly to show up in a mix and considering the shape of the head and ears combined with the roaning I see ACD mix. I'm sorry if I upset you in anyway, it wasn't my intent. I especially felt the need to correct this line "beautiful "Aussie-like" coloring" in case others would see this they would be aware roaning is not aussie like.


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## Morganhorse2003 (Apr 17, 2009)

I realize that this thread is a little old but I just wanted to add in my 2 cents worth:

I have one rescue dog from a shelter who looks to be a golden retriever mix. One of THE best dogs I have EVER been around. Was medium energy in the shelter, got him home and literally was learning any trick I threw at him within minutes. Absolutely LOVES people and wants to please more than anything. Many other of my friends have shelter dogs as well and I have not yet stumbled upon a bad shelter dog.

Mikedavid keeps insisting on a greyhound or whippet. My family adopted a greyhound from a foster home, we were told he was very good with children, etc. He was great for a while. My sister at the time was about 5 or 6 years old. She got a little too close to his face one day and he lost it and nearly tore her face up. We thought it was just a situation where the dog had not been near younger kids and tried again with a whippet who was also supposedly good with kids...however, he snapped at any small kid around. So, no don't get a greyhound/whippet just because they have been in foster homes...this does not always mean they're going to be good...you may find a great one or they may not be for you.

As for smaller dogs, I have been around many small breed dogs who tend to be very nippy with young kids. I'm sure they're not all that way, but I have noticed that it seems to be the smaller breeds that are more snappy.

Lastly...I have a purebred Australian Shepherd who is a year old. I live in a very large apartment. We go on walks in the morning and evening and spend about 2 hrs at the dog park during the afternoon. He is a dream. He wears a backpack on our walks and he seems to feel like he has a job and this is enough to keep him quite happy. Occasionally we do little agility courses just for fun which he also enjoys. While many aussies would absolutely LOVE to have a farm to run on, they can also be happy in smaller areas IF given exercise, discipline, and attention. 

Thought I should add in for Mikedavid...I am not a pro, nor would I consider myself an enthusiast...I enjoy dogs very much, but I would consider myself an average owner...have loved all shelter dogs I've met and I love my aussie...greyhounds are also a breed that I LOVE but are not always good with kids...even those from foster homes 

Good look to the OP...hope you find that perfect dog


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

Morgan, mikedavid got banned shortly after this thread. In his short time here, he hijacked a bunch of threads with comments like the ones he made here. Eventually I think it got to be too much for the mods.

But I totally understand you posting. It's so, so hard to resist responding to some of the ridiculous stuff he said, as we saw during his brief tenure here, when he was everyone's favorite troll. And I like your response, too.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Buggzter said:


> Oh, two other things.
> 
> 1) my bird, Pheonix, is flighted and presently rules the home. I know she'd get used to a dog, and I'd watch them very very closely for the first couple weeks to make sure they'd get along or keep them apart as needed. Suggestions in all of this? What should I watch out for in the dog not liking the bird? How to I get a dog used to a bird that flys, without an interest in EATING the bird?


Unless I'm reading your OP wrong, it appears you're gone for an awful lot of hours but others can address that issue. I'm going to address the above. We have three birds, all were flighted and were loose for 6hrs a day (two or three times a day). One of our dogs was very interested in the birds but I thought all would be well, he'd get used to the birds. Then, he snatched one out of midair, luckily my son was home to help me pry open his jaws to remove the bird. Sonny, the bird, had to undergo surgery to repair the damage. Now, the dogs are loose only in their room and only loose in the rest of the house when the dogs are outside. If you get a dog, be VERY careful


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