# Introducing Kirin - Sibe Husky Puppy!



## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

So on the 29th we brought this little girl home <3 She's a racing line Siberian Husky























































I am co-owning her with my roommate/cousin/good friend. She belongs to both of us and while my roommate pays for all expenses, I do all training, socializing, shaping, etc. She'll be an active companion for my roommate and another casual performance dog for me. She's very, very sweet, turning out exactly as I had hoped, and is absolutely gorgeous. 

I was not looking for a third dog and was definitely not going to get a husky (and _definitely_ not a Sibe), but my roommate was dead set on getting one, with or without my guidance. From what I knew of some racing bred Sibes, I thought I could mesh okay with one so I sought out a breeder and litter that was closer to what I was looking for. So even if the dog isn't textbook Siberian, as long as it's a dog I can live and work with I am happy. I'm incredibly pleased with the breeder we ended up going with, and this little puppy.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Siege has been so good with her (as has Trent, but he's not as forgiving and we have to be more watchful with him)




































SO TINY









Photos from yesterday! And yes, her eyes are that blue. They'll lighten and clear up pretty quickly with age though.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

annnnnd today. First snow! She wasn't keen at first


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

But I reminded her she was a husky


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Oh my god I need 5.
onlynotreallycauseLol

She's very pretty. Excited to see what you guys can do with her!


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

So CUTE! I love the colors! You are so lucky!

Can you tell me what the differences in a "normal" Sibe and a racing type Sibe are?


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

HollowHeaven said:


> Oh my god I need 5.
> onlynotreallycauseLol
> 
> She's very pretty. Excited to see what you guys can do with her!


Hahaha that's so funny because I was JUST reading through the "would you own that breed again?" thread and saw your reply saying no more huskies ever. Which basically was kinda my sentiment, though I always felt that I may end up with an Alaskan Husky one day? But if my cousin and I are getting a Sibe together, I'm at least happy I found a breeder who prioritizes handler focus, biddability, intelligence/willingness to work with handler, responsiveness, etc. Because my cousin just wants a well behaved pet, we're doing equal parts impulse control and drive building, but stuff like rally, casual frisbee, maybe even urban mushing for exercise? They're all in the cards!  I'm really excited too! 

I'm also really interested to see how she turns out lol There was a pretty big variety in her litter!



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> So CUTE! I love the colors! You are so lucky!
> 
> Can you tell me what the differences in a "normal" Sibe and a racing type Sibe are?


Thank you!! I feel like I really am - we got a really, really good puppy here. She is spunky and sassy but with a GREAT disposition. Very very sweet and social and confident. Extremely lovable. 

I'm honestly noooot the best person to ask about this, but I've discussed this with my go to husky/mushing friend before so let me search our conversations and I'll get back to you!! Maybe meanwhile someone else can respond if they know? But a lot of what I was going off of is purely anecdotal - I've had some problems with a bit of neurosis in conformation and some pet bred huskies I've known, and that combined with the complete lack of biddability and disregard for their handler is not something I can really deal with. But with Kirin's breeder, he puts more emphasis on producing thinking dogs, handler focus, and higher thresholds.


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## mudypony (Jul 31, 2014)

Yay, a photo thread!!

I'll say it again... she's gorgeous, I LOVE her eyes, & your photography is amazing. The end.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

She is gorgeous! I love that Seige loves her! Has Trent met her?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

WHAT?

That's so great! I hope she turns out to be everything you want. I've found that people sometimes overstate the independence of the northern breeds -- none of mine have been as biddable as a BC or my papillon, but they haven't been the type to completely blow off a handler, either.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Cuuuuuuute!!!! Have fun!


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> So CUTE! I love the colors! You are so lucky!
> 
> Can you tell me what the differences in a "normal" Sibe and a racing type Sibe are?


 Showline sibes tend to be shorter legged, stockier, and thicker coat.
Racing lines tend to have longer leg, leaner, less coat, more energy and drive.

Quick pics so not prime examples of each, but

Show









Working line









Racing lines tend to be even leggier, shorter coat, and leaner









Alaskan Husky mutts, mix of whatever northern breeds and often pointer/greyhound/eurohound/lurcher bred for purpose of sledding.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

And some cellphone pics





























mudypony said:


> Yay, a photo thread!!
> 
> I'll say it again... she's gorgeous, I LOVE her eyes, & your photography is amazing. The end.


I'll continue updating this thread for sure!! And thank you! I think she's super pretty too, and should grow up really nicely. I'm very excited to see how she turns out! Haha and thank you (AGAIN <3) for complimenting my photography  Having a puppy around has definitely inspired me to take more photos!!

And videos as promised!






Mouth sounds are super interesting





Her and Siege playing. Siege gets grumpy occasionally when Kirin gets too annoying or rough, but I trust Siege 110%. Because Kirin is very young I need Siege to teach her how to play appropriately and trust her to be fair with her corrections. It helps that Siege has raised lots of puppies before!




 


jade5280 said:


> She is gorgeous! I love that Seige loves her! Has Trent met her?


Thank you! Trent has, but they require more management together so I can't really take pictures. Trent really, really likes her and is very friendly and sweet with her, but he's also just an incredibly exuberant dog and doesn't really know how to be gentle. He's also possessive and guardy and grumpy and isn't as patient, so I don't like Kirin bothering him too much. He likes her a lot though! I just want to keep it that way haha. 



Crantastic said:


> WHAT?
> 
> That's so great! I hope she turns out to be everything you want. I've found that people sometimes overstate the independence of the northern breeds -- none of mine have been as biddable as a BC or my papillon, but they haven't been the type to completely blow off a handler, either.


Haha yeah it was kinda unexpected for sure!! Thank you so much, I'm hoping so too and so far so good! 



Sibe said:


> Cuuuuuuute!!!! Have fun!


Thank you! And definitely will do 



Sibe said:


> Showline sibes tend to be shorter legged, stockier, and thicker coat.
> Racing lines tend to have longer leg, leaner, less coat, more energy and drive.


Oh I didn't realize there were working lines *and* racing lines! That's really interesting. 



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Can you tell me what the differences in a "normal" Sibe and a racing type Sibe are?


To add onto the examples Sibe gave, I looked through some old conversations and also based on my own limited experience - 

I have found show line Sibes to be a little more thin nerved, less drivey, less focused, and a bit more high strung (as a very general, blanket statement). Very fun and very sweet dogs, but a bit scattered overall. I can't really speak for racing line Sibes based on personal experience because Kirin and her breeder's dogs are the limit of my exposure...but from what my mushing friend says, racing line Sibes and Alaskans generally have a better off switch (because they need to conserve energy at check points), stronger nerves and more stability (they travel everywhere and are handled in all manners of ways by their owners/vets/people at races/etc), and can't be too low threshold or weird when it comes to prey, touch or noise sensitivities, being in tight quarters with other dogs, being around people. 

So the nice thing about Kirin's breeder is that he is still very active with his dogs and has worked with some of his lines since 30+ years ago. He talked a lot about what he focuses on and selects for and a lot of those attributes (handler focus, thinking ability, bombproof-ness, etc.) are what I value too. So hopefully we've stacked the odds in our favor


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

The "racing" line Siberians are highly debated because they may as well be a separate breed. Usually working/racing lines are taken as meaning non-show sibes, and not exactly meaning the super lean/leggy/weirdo ones


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Sibe said:


> The "racing" line Siberians are highly debated because they may as well be a separate breed. Usually working/racing lines are taken as meaning non-show sibes, and not exactly meaning the super lean/leggy/weirdo ones


Gotcha! Yeah just based off of generalizations made about both types and comparing confo and pet lines to those observations/generalizations about racing lines, there seems to be a big divergence? We'll see how this little puppy turns out!


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Yeah it's fairly significant. Not as huge as in some breeds, and nothing so exaggerated it's detrimental, but you can tell a show vs working line. Mostly you see the leg length and the coat thickness as the major difference. Show line siberians run hot, more easily overheat because of the denser, thicker, plush type coat.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

There's definitely a bigger divergence between racing sibes and show sibes than working line GSDs and show GSDs. Racing sibes are more like the hunting hounds- not much concern for purity of lines (working line GSDs are still all GSD), all the concern for performance. So you'll end up with hunting line hounds who are more "small hound that hunts a certain way" and "large hound that hunts a certain way" than beagle and coonhound. From what I understand, racing sibes are the same deal.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

That's Alaskan Huskies. Alaskans are the mutts, not caring about purity, just going for a good racing/working dog. Mixed with other Nordic breeds, pointers, even sighthounds/lurchers, going for the long legs and deep chest.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Sibe said:


> That's Alaskan Huskies. Alaskans are the mutts, not caring about purity, just going for a good racing/working dog. Mixed with other Nordic breeds, pointers, even sighthounds/lurchers, going for the long legs and deep chest.


Right, that's what I was wondering and what I was about to ask. I actually have said before I'd consider getting an Alaskan down the road, but guess we jumped the gun and went with a racing Sibe instead!


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

I've never met one. From what I hear (from professionals, the people who race competitively and run the Yukon and the Iditarod and such) Alaskans have no "all done." They will literally run until they drop.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Sibe said:


> I've never met one. From what I hear (from professionals, the people who race competitively and run the Yukon and the Iditarod and such) Alaskans have no "all done." They will literally run until they drop.


Does that necessarily mean they don't have an off switch though? Like Siege will go until I force her to stop too but still possesses/was taught an off switch. A good friend of mine owns distance line Alaskans and they're all really easy to have around the house (and she has several cats too). She's said that their ability to recall is better than what she's seen on show line Sibes too. It probably differs depending on lineage, even within a specific type?


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

I don't know of anyone who has one as an indoor pet, just as working dogs, so I honestly don't know. I would assume that since they are dogs and have dog brains, despite the natural tendencies, that with the training, management, and supervision, they could be great house pets. I would assume natural recall would be better- but people assume "huskies run away, you can't teach them recall, so never let them offleash" so never even work on it. I've had Denali offleash her entire life and she has awesome recall because we worked on it.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Sibe said:


> I don't know of anyone who has one as an indoor pet, just as working dogs, so I honestly don't know. I would assume that since they are dogs and have dog brains, despite the natural tendencies, that with the training, management, and supervision, they could be great house pets. I would assume natural recall would be better- but people assume "huskies run away, you can't teach them recall, so never let them offleash" so never even work on it. I've had Denali offleash her entire life and she has awesome recall because we worked on it.


Ah okay, yeah said friend has/had a bunch of them that have all hung out indoors with her at some point and they just chill out. As far as I know, she didn't have to work really hard with training and management to get to that point, and she acquired all of her current Alaskans as adults I _believe_, and from various sources. 

And yeah I agree about recall (and same as what Amy/Cran mentioned above), self fulfilling prophecy and all that. We're working hard on building towards a solid recall with her! Very cool about Denali, I did not know that.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

All very interesting on the types of Sibes! Thanks.


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## mudypony (Jul 31, 2014)

The videos are private


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> All very interesting on the types of Sibes! Thanks.


No problem! Maybe some day I'll learn enough about them to be able to give a better answer haha 



mudypony said:


> The videos are private


Fixed!! Sorry about that pffbhhhht, I totally forgot.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

The Alaskans I have met have been decent pets in active/recreational mushing homes. I wouldn't find them impossible to live with at all.


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## mudypony (Jul 31, 2014)

Equinox said:


> Fixed!! Sorry about that pffbhhhht, I totally forgot.


Ha, no problem!

That second video is the best! She's so adorable! Duke freaked out at the noises too, haha. My laptop and I were almost totaled... :redface:

And, Siege sounds like the perfect puppy raiser! I might need to borrow her when my pup comes along :wink:


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Equinox said:


> And yeah I agree about recall (and same as what Amy/Cran mentioned above), self fulfilling prophecy and all that. We're working hard on building towards a solid recall with her! Very cool about Denali, I did not know that.


 Starting at 8 weeks old, Denali was usually offleash when in front of the apartment building when out to potty, and dragging a long line at the neighborhood park. Within a month or so she wasn't dragging anything. We did a *ton* of recall work, husband and I calling her back and forth across the field, ask for 1-3 cues, then other person calls her. Starting at 4 months at dog parks, I had treats with me (yes, I know it's bad to bring treats in and against most park rules because it can cause fights; she never got treats in front of other dogs and we'd leave if any other dog was too focused on the treats after sniffing them out) and I would reward any random check ins where she offered to approach, if she ever paused and gave eye contact to me I'd call her and reward, I'd walk around to different (non-crowded) parts of the park to be able to give treats safely without other dogs noticing, stuff like that. On hikes where dogs can be offleash she'd start on leash getting treats for checking in and staying close until she'd settled a bit, then she'd be let offleash. I still continue that to this day, and continue rewarding random check ins, and practice calling her. Mushing training with "on by" has been a huge factor in being able to call her off critters that bolt, admittedly she has always struggled being called off birds (she even tried many times to chase down low flying helicopters and planes in San Diego as the dog beach shared a border with a Navy base) but she doesn't go too far and she does come back. Almost every time I call her it's a Premack style recall. Come, treats, do 0-5 known cues, then "go play!" and send her off again. I have no fear letting her offleash in the mountains. If Kaytu ever got loose I'd burst into tears and assume I'd never see her again.









Yellow lab friend on left, Nali on right.. she blends.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Beautiful pup, can't wait to see her mature


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

sassafras said:


> The Alaskans I have met have been decent pets in active/recreational mushing homes. I wouldn't find them impossible to live with at all.


mmm yeah, I mean I know Squash can be busy around the house but not unbearably so, and obviously I don't mind that nor do I consider that hard to live with anymore. From what Amanda's said of her dogs (as she's my go to for everything husky), they seem pretty good indoors without excessive management and training. Of her dogs though I've only seen Bandit, Martha, and Hoover in her house (and that was via Skype) so I can't quite go off of that, but I haven't seen/been told anything to imply that they're crazy indoors. But since they're more type and breed and presumably have so much variation, it's tricky for me to figure out.



mudypony said:


> Ha, no problem!
> 
> That second video is the best! She's so adorable! Duke freaked out at the noises too, haha. My laptop and I were almost totaled... :redface:
> 
> And, Siege sounds like the perfect puppy raiser! I might need to borrow her when my pup comes along :wink:


Hahaha I was just making funny noises with my mouth to get that head tilt, it's SO CUTE. Siege was over it, I've tricked her one too many times (for photos) so she didn't care. I should've warned you though LOL And she is absolutely wonderful with this puppy!! I'd let you borrow her, but I can't stand to be apart from her so I'll have to come attached haha.



Sibe said:


> Starting at 8 weeks old, Denali was usually offleash when in front of the apartment building when out to potty, and dragging a long line at the neighborhood park. Within a month or so she wasn't dragging anything. We did a *ton* of recall work, husband and I calling her back and forth across the field, ask for 1-3 cues, then other person calls her. Starting at 4 months at dog parks, I had treats with me (yes, I know it's bad to bring treats in and against most park rules because it can cause fights; she never got treats in front of other dogs and we'd leave if any other dog was too focused on the treats after sniffing them out) and I would reward any random check ins where she offered to approach, if she ever paused and gave eye contact to me I'd call her and reward, I'd walk around to different (non-crowded) parts of the park to be able to give treats safely without other dogs noticing, stuff like that. On hikes where dogs can be offleash she'd start on leash getting treats for checking in and staying close until she'd settled a bit, then she'd be let offleash. I still continue that to this day, and continue rewarding random check ins, and practice calling her. Mushing training with "on by" has been a huge factor in being able to call her off critters that bolt, admittedly she has always struggled being called off birds (she even tried many times to chase down low flying helicopters and planes in San Diego as the dog beach shared a border with a Navy base) but she doesn't go too far and she does come back. Almost every time I call her it's a Premack style recall. Come, treats, do 0-5 known cues, then "go play!" and send her off again. I have no fear letting her offleash in the mountains. If Kaytu ever got loose I'd burst into tears and assume I'd never see her again.


Ah this is really great info, thanks! I do this with Siege and Trent already and have started this with Kirin as well (rewarding for check ins, playing hide and seek, playing "be the cookie") and will soon start on restrained recalls as well. We'll have to watch out and work hard when the prey drive surfaces too, but I'll do my best (Siege is makes recall training so easy, aughhh)!



Adjecyca1 said:


> Beautiful pup, can't wait to see her mature


Thank you, same here!! Huge congrats on your GORGEOUS puppy too, I've been such a fan of Turtle!


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## mudypony (Jul 31, 2014)

Equinox said:


> Hahaha I was just making funny noises with my mouth to get that head tilt, it's SO CUTE. Siege was over it, I've tricked her one too many times (for photos) so she didn't care. I should've warned you though LOL And she is absolutely wonderful with this puppy!! I'd let you borrow her, but I can't stand to be apart from her so I'll have to come attached haha.


As long as your camera comes too, then I'm good with that hahaha!!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

She is beautiful! Love her color. 

Do you have a link to the breeder? I'd love to see what their adults look like. I see a lot of siberian puppies but only from one breeder and her dogs very much have a type. I'd be interested to see what others look like.


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## DogtorWho15 (Aug 31, 2015)

She is so gorgeous!! I cant wait to see what she looks like as she gets older.


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## parapluie (Oct 20, 2015)

Came in search of the videos you promised in the puppy fever thread  Ahhhhdehidewf The last one with Siege licking her at the end, my heart melts!


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

mudypony said:


> As long as your camera comes too, then I'm good with that hahaha!!


Haha definitely!! We'll swap photography services 



elrohwen said:


> She is beautiful! Love her color.
> 
> Do you have a link to the breeder? I'd love to see what their adults look like. I see a lot of siberian puppies but only from one breeder and her dogs very much have a type. I'd be interested to see what others look like.


Thank you!! Unfortunately the breeder doesn't have a website or really any sort of online presence aside from the occasional mention on the local mushing mailing lists. I have a photo of the dam uploaded but can't find one of the sire currently. This is the dam










The sire was a light red and white, and 4 of the 5 puppies had a unique coat color/pattern. This was Kirin at an even younger age










Here are some Sibe breeder websites you can check out to get a general feel for the type/variety being bred. I really love all these dogs (the first link is to an Oregon mushing kennel)

http://www.tumnatkisiberians.com/dogs.html
http://www.sibersong.com/kennel/dogs.php
http://redlinesiberians.com/dogs.html
http://www.wildwindsiberians.com/WildWindSiberians/Huskies.html
http://www.kelimhuskies.com/ourdogs.html
https://howlingspiritracingsleddogs.shutterfly.com/dogteamsiberianhusky



DogtorWho15 said:


> She is so gorgeous!! I cant wait to see what she looks like as she gets older.


Thank you!! Same here!



parapluie said:


> Came in search of the videos you promised in the puppy fever thread  Ahhhhdehidewf The last one with Siege licking her at the end, my heart melts!


Haha right?? They're ridiculously cute together, and Siege has been great with her. She's raised a few litters before and has been a huge help with socializing and teaching Kirin how to play appropriately.


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## dogsule (Nov 6, 2013)

Awww, soo cute!!


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

dogsule said:


> Awww, soo cute!!


Thank you, she is!! It makes it a LITTLE easier on me when she wakes me up at 4 am to play


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