# TWELVE golden retriever puppies!



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

I went to meet my new pup this afternoon. When I got there, the breeder's daughters were playing with some them on the back deck while others were napping with mom. We took them down into the yard to play and I took some pictures.

It was hilarious! They were obsessed with the part of the yard that went into the woods...probably because of all the interesting smells there. At one point, mom came down as did one of the other dogs, a 13 year old golden that is absolutely huge and beautiful (not a parent to this litter).

Oh! I forgot to add...the vet was there when I got there, so I got to chat with him for a while. He was completely impressed with them. He said he had been almost positive that with 12 puppies, one would have problems, but they were all healthy. 

Here's the full album, but I'm pasting in a few gems.


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

A few more...

Here's mom (poor thing is pooped and very skinny right now):


















Their other adult dog (not a parent to the litter). She's 13 years old!









Dancing!









This is interesting...he soaks their kibble in (I think I have this right) sterilized lamb's milk. Ever heard of that?


----------



## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Awwwww... so sweet  Poor mom looks awful, but with 12 puppies, who could blame her.


----------



## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

So Adorable...Which one is your pup?! And when do you get to bring him/her home? Congrats!


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

I don't really know which one is mine yet! He didn't want anyone to pick before their personalities started coming out. They'll be five weeks old on Saturday and he's letting people pick in two weeks. From there, we'll designate pick up dates.

I've never done this before, but it sounded like a good way to go about doing it.


----------



## sillylilykitty (Mar 11, 2007)

JeanninePC99 said:


> This is interesting...he soaks their kibble in (I think I have this right) sterilized lamb's milk. Ever heard of that?


I have not heard of soaking it in lambs milk before but the breeder I worked for, she soaked the kibble in warm water when the puppies are being weaned onto the kibble.

Very cute puppies! Im glad the breeder is making you wait before getting attached to a puppy, its one sign (of many!) you picked a good breeder.


----------



## Shell&Jas (Jul 4, 2007)

They are so Cute! Congrats!

It's so great that you are getting time with them now (at 5 weeks old). It is the best way to go about it. This way (especially if you get a few visits in before 8 weeks) you can really find the best pup for you as far as personality goes. We recommend that everyone does it this way!

Are you getting a male or female?


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm getting a male. They'll be five weeks old on Saturday and the picking will take place at six weeks. At that point, everyone will work out when they take them home.

There's so much conflicting opinion about the best age to take them home. One friend said that Wolters recommends 7 weeks, but I've seen anywhere from 6-8 weeks recommended.


----------



## sillylilykitty (Mar 11, 2007)

Please wait till the puppy is at least 8 weeks before you take him home. They need to stay that long to learn things from their littermates (such as bite inhibition....trust me you want him to learn that!).


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

All i can tell you is that I am keeping my puppies until ten weeks. Alot has changed since Wolters wrote his book and more is known about puppies ability to adapt and bond. I keep all of my retriever litters to ten weeks, they have better bite inhibition and are more confident puppies. they still bond to their people and are excellent little guys. 

Oh and I don't let anyone pick.... I match puppies to people.... people inexplicably pick the wrong puppy for them..... often going for the cutest most outgoing puppy in the litter when another puppy may be a better choice but isn't as outgoing so nobody pays attention to it. 

I would not take your puppy earlier than 9 weeks. 6 weeks is an infant who has no bite inhibition..... 7 weeks is still very very young.... 8 or 9 is ok.... I prefer 10 so 9 would be better to me. Remember that goldens are mouthy puppies so the more lessons they can learn from mom and their siblings about mouthing and biting the better.


----------



## viccky (Aug 1, 2007)

oh wow how cute i just want to scoop them up and cuddle them,mum so looks tired but who wouldnt 12 fiesty little pups to look after,bless her.girl power.


----------



## SammyDog (May 21, 2007)

The mom is a very good looking Golden. Nice golden color


----------



## Snowshoe (Nov 17, 2006)

They ARE very cute! My boyfriend is a huge fan of goldens. I know that the darker colors aren't the "fad" right now, but I've always like the darker goldens in comparison to the English Cream goldens. 

Part of me wants to ask a million questions about your breeder before you get your puppy to make sure that you as a buyer made the right decision before its too late. 

The other part of me remembers how sense goes out the window when you see a cute little puppy playing at your feet, playing tug of war with your shoe strings. 

To satisfy myself, I will ask a few: 

1) Does your breeder health test? If so, do you get proof? 

2) Does your breeder title their dogs, either by showing, hunting, or agility? 

2) Are they sold with a contract that states that you must spay or neuter your puppy with in a certain amount of time (typically one year) and also that the breeder guarentees the health of the puppy for at least three years? 

If so, I will jump for joy for you, because you made a good decision as a buyer. 

If you don't know the answers to these questions, then I'd ask them and make sure that your breeder answers them all with a resounding "yes!" 

~Snow


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Snowshoe said:


> Part of me wants to ask a million questions about your breeder before you get your puppy to make sure that you as a buyer made the right decision before its too late.


I did my homework.


----------



## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

sillylilykitty said:


> Please wait till the puppy is at least 8 weeks before you take him home. They need to stay that long to learn things from their littermates (such as bite inhibition....trust me you want him to learn that!).


Yes, let the breeder keep the pups till at least 8 weeks. I got snoopy when he was 9 weeks and I had to teach him alittle bit on how not to bite to hard, I've got the bite marks and scars to prove it.


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Thanks, folks. As I wrote in my intro (in the welcome forum), I'm from a family of dog people. This is the first dog I've owned exclusively, but it's not really my first time.


----------



## gizmobaby (Apr 30, 2007)

Too adorable!! I wish I could have some fun with those puppies  Awww!


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

JeanninePC99 said:


> I did my homework.


alot of people think they do their homework and find out later that they did the wrong assignment and didn't ask the right questions..... 
coming from a family of dog people does not mean that you necessarily know how to find a reputable breeder.... I know lots of folks who love animals and consider themselves to be "dog people" who have no clue about clearances and showing and why all of that is important..... 

s


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

My last two posts were subtly trying to convey that I'm not going to engage in the discussion that has popped up. 

The intent of this thread is to share some cute pictures. I don't feel making this a "prove you know what you're doing" thread is necessary.


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

well you want people to ooohhhh and aaaahhhhhh over your puppies and many of us will not oooohhhhh and aaahhhhhh over puppies from breeders that haven't done what they are supposed to.... 

What set off the bells for many of us is the you get to pick your puppy and to be honest I don't know a responsible breeder that allows people to pick ...... 

actually to be honest I just got my GRCA membership book out and it clearly says that most responsible breeders DON't let you pick and that has been my experience with all of the dogs that I did not breed myself and I don't let puppy people pick at all...... I take certain things into consideration .... gender..... but ultimately nobody picks..... 

if the breeder is keeping a performance puppy or show puppy from the litter then how would HE know which puppy he is keeping at five weeks or six weeks to allow you to pick your puppy at that age.....???? is he not temperament testing??? as that can't be done until 7-8 weeks and if he is doing it, he is asking you to pick prior to the temperament testing????? 

and if he is breeding pets and not keeping one.... well that is another bell.... 

then there is the fact that you state you did your homework and are from a line of dog people but come here asking when you should bring your puppy home which clearly tells us that you aren't as knowledgeable as you suggest and that you didn't really "do your homework" ..... 

so there ya have it..... you wondered why.... and those are just the three that I can think of at this time of the morning..... 

regardless..... 

whether you did your homework or not.... 

make sure that you have 
hip 
eye (CERF)
elbow AND 
Heart clearances (done by a cardiologist) 

if the person says the vet has done them and they are ok..... that is a crock.... you need to see the hip certifications from OFA, OVC, BVA, or PennHip 

Xrays for elbows can only be done by OFA if you are in the states 

eye is done by CERF 

and the heart needs to be cardiologist cleared.... NOT practitioner cleared, goldens have a high rate of SAS 

Make sure that there is no history of PRA in the lines as PRA can skip many generations..... and you end up with a blind dog ...... 

it would have been easier to just answer the question..... but as you refused to do that .... as a responsible golden breeder here are some tips..... 

if you have done all of this GREAT..... I would be VERY surprised..... 

none the less use the information as need be. 
and don't be surprised when people want to ask questions about your breeder ...when I first arrived at this board I was pretty much grilled being a breeder.... you would be surprised at how many people don't do their homework.... or think they did only to find out they didn't. 
s


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Ah! This is the welcome I expected after reading the new member forum!

I didn't offer many details about my breeder for this exact reason. I also haven't really asked any questions, aside from whether anyone had heard of soaking kibble in goat/sheep's milk. I know the answers to the basic questions and was trying to be say that I'd accept my breeder's decision about when the puppies were ready.

Your concern was expected and noted, but as I wrote above, I'm not going to engage in this discussion. If I am to post details about my dog's pedigree and breeder with my posts so that some members can decide whether they will accept me, than perhaps members should post a list of their degrees and schools (my currency) so that I know whether I will accept them.


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

happily 
BS degree Notre Dame 
MSW U. of NH 
PhD U of NH (just finishing up) 

current Profession Prof. of Sociology and this semester I am teaching two sections of First Year Seminar..... not exactly part of my repertoire although we each choose a question for the students to research and my question is "Does Everyone have Bootstraps" a look at whether the american dream exists and if everyone really does have equal opportunity. 
Research areas of interest: Stratification, Race and Disability..... 
current research: Life Stress amongst Adult Siblings of People with Significant Independance Limiting Disabilities...... 
I have another project at present that looks at African Americans and Disability. 

Anything else you want to know?????? 

if you expected this then you should have been prepared.... it would have been easier to just answer the questions.... and as you didn't and refuse to do so..... even in a light discussion..... I will go with my previous assumption.... 
backyard breeder.
s (over and out)


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Your assumption that my refusal to answer your OT questions is a sign of ignorance is wrong. If I wanted to talk about breeding, I'd post in the breeding forum.

Good luck with your defense (I'm assuming by "finishing up", you're ABD right now) and good luck with that intro course.


Perhaps it's time to ask a mod to lock this thread.


----------



## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

JeanninePC99 said:


> I also haven't really asked any questions, aside from whether anyone had heard of soaking kibble in goat/sheep's milk.


You also asked what age you should bring a pup home...one would think you would know the answer to this question, coming from a family of dog people an all.
I thought I did my homework with my first boxer too - turns out I bought from a backyard breeder. 

In your intro you also mentioned knowing the devastating effects of HD - certainly you wouldn't buy a pup from a breeder who hasn't had their hips checked right? It would be heart breaking to have your pup crippled at the age of 2 from HD or drop dead from a heart attack because the breeder was too irresponsible to health test.


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

I did not ask a question about when it was best to take home a puppy. I commented on the conflicting opinions that are out there.


JeanninePC99 said:


> There's so much conflicting opinion about the best age to take them home. One friend said that Wolters recommends 7 weeks, but I've seen anywhere from 6-8 weeks recommended.



Enough is enough. Enjoy the pictures and move on.


----------



## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Sorry you had to endure these kinds of questions from here as I did when I was getting my shih tzu. It turned out to be a 15 page topic with them asking so many questions and bringing the quality of the breeder down. But once I got the dog they stopped. So just try and hang in there and maybe answer a couple of questions, even if you don't want to, just to sastifiy them.


----------



## nrhareiner (Dec 6, 2006)

BoxMeIn21;105562
In your intro you also mentioned knowing the devastating effects of HD - certainly you wouldn't buy a pup from a breeder who hasn't had their hips checked right? It would be heart breaking to have your pup crippled at the age of 2 from HD or drop dead from a heart attack because the breeder was too irresponsible to health test.
[URL=http://smiliesftw.com said:


> [/URL]



So answered me this. Is it any less hart braking if you buy from a reputable breeder who shows and has every animal health tested and you still end up with a HD or a dog with a heart problem? In the end it is still the same it does happen and I personally really find it disheartening to hear people who put SO MUCH emphases on testing and make it sound like it is the end all be all of everything. It is not. Until they come up with a DNA test that excludes the possibility of a genetic defect there is no way to truly know.

All you can really do is your best and hope for the best. 

Heidi


----------



## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

It's heartbreaking when any dog dies, whether it's the sweet mutt from the SPCA or the sparkling specimen of a breed.

I think in their seemingly aggressive way, these people are trying to save people from the heartbreak of watching a dog deteriorate before it's able to live a long, happy life. They may also be trying to curb demand for puppies so people won't see their dog as a cash cow and those with a propensity for problems down the road don't pass those tendencies on to puppies.

Of course, once a puppy is born, there's no way to undo that, so if it doesn't have the right numbers, I'm not sure what they'd suggest.


----------



## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> *In the end it is still the same *it does happen and I personally really find it disheartening to hear people who put SO MUCH emphases on testing and make it sound like it is the end all be all of everything. It is not. Until they come up with a DNA test that excludes the possibility of a genetic defect there is no way to truly know.
> 
> All you can really do is your best and hope for the best.
> 
> Heidi


*No, the same doesn't happen*
Health testing may not be 100%, but it *greatly* reduces the risk. People who care about the puppies they produce reduce this risk by completing the necessary tests AND most of the breeders guarantee the health of their pups. Show me a backyard breeder who does this? 
Apparently this board is becoming more divided - those who support backyard breeding and those who don't.


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

JeanninePC99 said:


> It's heartbreaking when any dog dies, whether it's the sweet mutt from the SPCA or the sparkling specimen of a breed.
> 
> I think in their seemingly aggressive way, these people are trying to save people from the heartbreak of watching a dog deteriorate before it's able to live a long, happy life. They may also be trying to curb demand for puppies so people won't see their dog as a cash cow and those with a propensity for problems down the road don't pass those tendencies on to puppies.
> 
> Of course, once a puppy is born, there's no way to undo that, so if it doesn't have the right numbers, I'm not sure what they'd suggest.


what most of us would suggest I woudl guess.... is that if people stopped buying them then the people who are breeding for money would stop doing it if all of a sudden people stopped buying their puppies...... it wouldn't be as much fun..... 

I would also add that it is not just health issues but temperament issues.... you may not realize this but we are seeing more and more temperament problems in GOLDENS..... can you imagine.... no longer is a golden the trustworthy family dog..... you have to watch temperaments now and this has to do with people breeding for the wrong reason..... 

My neighbor wanted a puppy.... years ago.... she had four kids.... age 3-12 ..... she saw an add in the paper.... german shepherd pups... so she went.... when she got there... the woman had a pile of pups.... told her to hurry up and pick one.... so there she was with 4 kids.... so they picked up a puppy and went home..... Maggie.... adorable.... big honking GSD ears..... she was put to sleep at age 3 for biting..... she was OK with the family but not all that trustworthy.... but on at least two occasions she ran through their fence to bite joggers in the road..... she was fearful of everything.... even I who am dog savvy was not comfortable around her.... but she was better with me because I was confident.... so not only were her kids upset..... that they had to get rid of their dog.... but maggie is the one that ultimately paid the price because of the breeder ....... the breeder didn't care... she got her $500 bucks..... 

a responsible breeder would have told the family that now was not the right time for a dog.... a responsible breeder would have matched the right puppy with the family and not allowed them to pick..... a responsible breeder would have known the temperaments and it is unlikely that their puppies would have had maggies temperament..... lets not even talk about health because Maggie never lived long enough to really know what her health would have been like. 

so there that is the problem..... you get upset because people ask you the questions.... but all of this breed legislation is a direct response to irresponsible breeders..... the heartbreak that people go through with badly bred dogs who don't have clearances.... and haven't been made to prove themselves is part of this.... and ultimately the dog suffers.... 

and ya know what .... its supply and demand.... if nobody bought the pups then there would be no reinforcement for breeding the pups...... very simple. 


and to NHAReiner..... dogs are not horses...... and simply because a well bred dog can get HD or other diseases..... doesn't mean that we should throw the baby out with the bath water.... two things first a well bred dog can get genetic diseases.... it happens.... but a responsible breeder will stand behind that pup..... and yes there are irresponsible show breeders as well..... 
however, because this does happen should we totally stop trying to increase our odds of improved health, lets forget clearances all together is that what you are saying???? shoot lets just breed any old dog who cares about health...... there is no logic to that..... while clearances are not hte end all, they are a step in the right direction to decrease our odds of having problems the best we can.... that and knowing pedigree (which most backyard breeders do not have a clue about) is the best thing we can do for our dogs. Back years ago Golden Retrievers had a huge problem with SAS ...... many many dogs were dropping dead at one and two years of age..... and due to clearances and breeders clearing their pups the incidence has gone way down..... 

but I suppose we shouldn't do that..... 

I can see why so many breeds are in such a mess when people think this way..... 


S


----------



## nrhareiner (Dec 6, 2006)

I am not supporting byb I am saying that to state that it is not likly to have a pup with problems just b/c the parents have been tested in missleading. I test evey animal I own when appropriate. I prefere the test to be DNA however for some reason the dog world dose not think this is nessasary. If it is genetice they should be looking for a DNA test. May not be easy may not be cheep however that does not change the fact it should be done.

I have seen pups come from breeders who have tested and the pups still have problems and I have seen pups come from breeders who do not test or only test for a few things and have no problems.

Testing in just ONE tool. It should be used but to say it is the only tool is not correct. Does it lower the chance of a problem. Yes to some degree it does. Heck I know a breeder that has every dog she breeds tested. Her older stud dog is OFA Hip Fair. This Dog has gone one to produce great dogs. Most may not feel it is correct to breed this dog but to each their own and the people who have pups by him are happy. He has not produced pups with HD.

Heidi


----------



## luv4gsds (Jul 27, 2006)

What beautiful golden puppies.


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> I am not supporting byb I am saying that to state that it is not likly to have a pup with problems just b/c the parents have been tested in missleading. I test evey animal I own when appropriate. I prefere the test to be DNA however for some reason the dog world dose not think this is nessasary. If it is genetice they should be looking for a DNA test. May not be easy may not be cheep however that does not change the fact it should be done.
> 
> I have seen pups come from breeders who have tested and the pups still have problems and I have seen pups come from breeders who do not test or only test for a few things and have no problems.
> 
> ...


you can't dna test for hips, elbows, patellas or heart ..... 
and clearances are only one piece of the puzzle..... fair hips is a passing score on OFA, I wouldn't breed a fair but it is a passing hip score.... 

nobody said that having clearances is all you need to do.... clearances, knowledge of pedigree, making a dog prove itself. What else is back there that you can't clear for.... that is all a piece of it.... just clearances is not enough, just titles is not enough, just a nice pedigree is not enough.... just being a nice dog is not enough..... 

and when dna tests can tell you about these things then I dont think dog people will object to using them... personally I can't wait for a dna screening for epilepsy to come out.... and we are almost there.... but right now.... dna can't screen for most clearance issues. 
s


----------



## nrhareiner (Dec 6, 2006)

Shalva said:


> what most of us would suggest I woudl guess.... is that if people stopped buying them then the people who are breeding for money would stop doing it if all of a sudden people stopped buying their puppies...... it wouldn't be as much fun.....
> 
> I would also add that it is not just health issues but temperament issues.... you may not realize this but we are seeing more and more temperament problems in GOLDENS..... can you imagine.... no longer is a golden the trustworthy family dog..... you have to watch temperaments now and this has to do with people breeding for the wrong reason.....
> 
> ...


If you read my post you will see that I agree animals all animals should be tested. However until there is a test that definately shows a true sign that the animal will produce or not that they are just one tool. Breeding/pedigree I feel is also a very big tool in the breeding process as is showing in what every you are breeding for and proving the animal that way. When I am looking for a prospect I take many things into consideration and will waigh which ones are most important to me. My Golden that I have now I picked b/c of her conformation, temperment, and less on lines. She is all hunt lines and although not show hunt lines the are hunted. Now I had to deside what I wanted. Did I want a conformations show dog or an obediance agility show dog or both. I desided that since I had Libby who I was showing in conformation that I really did not care if I showed Abby in conformation so the hair coat was somthing I wanted less of for reasons that if you lived on a farm you would understand. Breeder gave a garentee and if for any reason the dog did not work out I could return her and get my money back. To me that was what sold me on this breeder. The ones who would not do this I did not even bother calling.

Heidi

I agree 100% that it is just a part of the puzzal. You are one of the few that seem to see it that way. When I am looking for a prospect any prospect I look at everything. I may start and feel one thing is more important then anouther but I still look at everything. Like I said I am starting to look again for anouther Golden. I am not ready to buy as Abby is only about 8 months and I want to get her well started b/c I take on anouther especally with all the other things going. But I find it is never to early to start looking. If I find the right one before I totally ready I may just get it anyway. Only time will tell on that.

Also just FYI I have alreay had prelimes on Abby for hart and will probably do eyes next month and she is like I said only 8 months. Will have to be done again but I want as much info as I can get. This is whay I prefer when posible DNA testing. Once you have a negative animal the next generation should also be neg.

Heidi


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

This thread is an embarrassment to dog forums and I apologize to the OP.


----------

