# Why do dogs prefer cheaper, low quality food?



## Hellocat (May 13, 2013)

When we first got our rescue dog, she was in good health aside from being bald (she was shaved due to matting). I'm guessing she wasn't accustomed to eating quality food, having came from a shelter. Her breath was nauseating. 

After being with us for a week, her stink breath was completely gone. We have fed her salmon food since day one, initially because I wanted her hair to grow back healthy. She is now a big fan of salmon. I buy salmon treats, and occasionally wet her dry food w/ some salmon oil from the ak king salmon my mom jarred for us. Duchess loves her food, but the couple times she has been at a friends (who feed their dog cheap dog food), she loved it! 

I talked to a couple friends who said the same thing about their dogs- they prefer the cheap food. My cousin likened it to us humans enjoying junk food that isn't good for us. Is this the same thing w/ dogs?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

A lot of cheaper food has high fructose corn syrup and added salt to make it more palatable, so it's not that surprising that they enjoy it. Similar to people though, what we are drawn to isn't always what is best for us.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> A lot of cheaper food has high fructose corn syrup and added salt to make it more palatable, so it's not that surprising that they enjoy it. Similar to people though, what we are drawn to isn't always what is best for us.


That isn't entirely correct. Many lower-priced foods and some mid-priced foods use chicken or turkey by-product meals. These meals have a lot of organ content like liver, hearts, gizzards, skin and lungs. Beef, fish and pork meal are also by-product meals (even if not labelled that way), so you find better palatability in those foods. Palatability is much greater when there is organ content. Dogs also are attracted to amino acid peptides which you will find in animal protein digests.

Apart from being equally nutritious and sometimes better, palatability is much, much better with by-products. Dogs hate the taste of legumes and concentrated pea protein, so if you use a food with that, they use all the tricks to get the dog to eat it.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

That's not necessarily true.

A lot of dogs just like food. My dogs leave puddles of drool all over my floors when just from seeing me open up their food bin. They both eat pretty expensive foods, wet and dry. 

I've also had my dog turn his nose up to one brand of "cheap" food and gulp down another, so I really think it all just depends. 


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

If Summer got her way she'd eat Meow Mix soo....


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I actually find a lot of the dogs are very ho-hum about the really cheap stuff. Depending on where a foster is coming from, sometimes the previous caretaker sends along a few baggies of their current food. Usually the cheapest of the cheap and half the time the dogs turn up their noses at it (even though they are obviously skinny and hungry). Or pick at it and make a mess and only eat half of it. So I switch them cold turkey to a new food and don't bother taking a transition time. 

Corn is a sweet vegetable and the first ingredient of most of the cheap foods is corn, so I can see why many dogs would find that tasty. I don't think I've seen HFCS in all the major grocery store brands by any means, but enough corn can make for a sweet flavor. As a specific ingredient, Kibbles' n Bits has corn syrup, Purina Be Happy has sugar, Wegman's house brand has HFCS, Purina's Moist and Meaty has HFCS, Beneful Original has sugar. Those are just the ones that came to mind.

I haven't seen any preference towards or against peas/legumes. Fish based foods seem to be something the dogs either love or hate. I have noticed that even if a dog doesn't actually like a food, if he sees another dog eating it, he often wants to eat it too.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Here we go with the false information about corn. That train always arrives on time. Corn is not high in sugar at all. Peas, sweet potato, carrots, etc all have dramatically higher sugar content.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I did not say corn was high in sugar. I said it was "sweet"-- obviously I have no way to know if a dog perceives the flavor the same, but many people find the flavor of corn to be sweet. Of course "sweet corn" tastes sweeter.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

Maybe the dog is just hungrier on the cheaper food because they're not getting a quality meal?


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Shell said:


> I did not say corn was high in sugar. I said it was "sweet"-- obviously I have no way to know if a dog perceives the flavor the same, but many people find the flavor of corn to be sweet. Of course "sweet corn" tastes sweeter.


Dent Field Corn does not taste sweet at all.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Sassy had sweet smelling poop when she ate kibbles that were mostly corn, one for healthy dogs and one for kidney disease. She loved both but she wasn't exactly a picky eater.

My sister's little dog was a picky eater [no they practically force fed her so she was really fat] but she would happily eat my dogs' food when my dogs were eating it. Sister would go buy that food and her dog wouldn't eat it. Grass was always greener on the other side of the fence in that case.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Pffft. My dogs are into catfood, but their interest in cheap dog food is nonexistent. My mom feeds Dog Chow and other grocery store brands, and they won't even look at the bowl. We have to send their 5 star fairly expensive stuff with them, before they'll eat at her place. 

And they are NOT generally picky.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

For cats, they spray the cheap kibbles with animal digest to make the cats eat it. . .but I never bothered to see if they do the same for dogs . Dogs being generally less picky, I don't know if it's necessary. But a lot of the foods (that Shell listed) have sugar, and I do think dogs like sugar. Other than that I've never really noticed dogs preferring cheaper kibble, just cats.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

cheaper food is much stinkier... it has a weird smell, but there's definitely more of it.

Bumper1... what do you feed your dogs  you're always very opinionated on the food discussions.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Willowy said:


> For cats, they spray the cheap kibbles with animal digest to make the cats eat it. . .but I never bothered to see if they do the same for dogs . Dogs being generally less picky, I don't know if it's necessary. But a lot of the foods (that Shell listed) have sugar, and I do think dogs like sugar. Other than that I've never really noticed dogs preferring cheaper kibble, just cats.


Animal digest is used in dog foods too. It is the peptide form of amino acids. Some companies will use ingredients like "real Wisconsin cheese" because it sounds better. Aged dry cheese is high in MSG. "Natural Flavoring" is usually chicken liver that has been fermented and dried in some way.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> cheaper food is much stinkier... it has a weird smell, but there's definitely more of it.
> 
> Bumper1... what do you feed your dogs  you're always very opinionated on the food discussions.


I use Dr. Tim's Pursuit and wouldn't think to switch.

Prior to that I used Annamaet Ultra for close to 15 years, then my supplier retired and it became too hard to get. I had several dogs live until 17, 18 and almost 20 on Annamaet Ultra with no supplements. Before Annamaet Ultra they all ate Pro Plan.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> cheaper food is much stinkier... it has a weird smell, but there's definitely more of it.


Do you have specific foods that you feel are that way? All the cheap foods I've come in contact with have little to no smell!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> I use Dr. Tim's Pursuit and wouldn't think to switch.
> 
> Prior to that I used Annamaet Ultra for close to 15 years, then my supplier retired and it became too hard to get. I had several dogs live until 17, 18 and almost 20 on Annamaet Ultra with no supplements. Before Annamaet Ultra they all ate Pro Plan.


Interesting. Do you think Dr. Tim's is superior to Pro Plan? If so, why?


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> I use Dr. Tim's Pursuit and wouldn't think to switch.
> 
> Prior to that I used Annamaet Ultra for close to 15 years, then my supplier retired and it became too hard to get. I had several dogs live until 17, 18 and almost 20 on Annamaet Ultra with no supplements. Before Annamaet Ultra they all ate Pro Plan.


What kind of dogs do you have?


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

BubbaMoose said:


> Do you have specific foods that you feel are that way? All the cheap foods I've come in contact with have little to no smell!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


All of the dyed ones... beneful, Puppy chow, ect. all have this NASTY "chemically" smell. I work at a shelter so I come in contact with the nasty stuff a lot- luckily we have enough donations that we don't use the really bad stuff, but we do pass it on to other rescue groups and the subsidized elderly dog food program.

Beneful is stinky stinky. It doesn't smell like meat or fish, but it sure does smell like SOMETHING.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> All of the dyed ones... beneful, Puppy chow, ect. all have this NASTY "chemically" smell. I work at a shelter so I come in contact with the nasty stuff a lot- luckily we have enough donations that we don't use the really bad stuff, but we do pass it on to other rescue groups and the subsidized elderly dog food program.
> 
> Beneful is stinky stinky. It doesn't smell like meat or fish, but it sure does smell like SOMETHING.


Oh no. Gross! Glad I've never had to come in contact with it.  Thanks for the info. 


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> Interesting. Do you think Dr. Tim's is superior to Pro Plan? If so, why?


Way back when, Pro Plan was largely made with animal protein. If you know the brand Exclusive that is the old Pro Plan formula. Exclusive was part of Purina's feed store line, now it is part of Land O Lakes. Pro Plan was a really, really good food when it first came out. Its ok now too but animal protein at best is around 60%.

Dr. Tim's has a ton of animal protein, 92% of the GA protein in Pursuit I believe and 94% in Momentum. Dr. Tim's is at the top of performance foods now, no question. In the past two years at the Iditarod he has won and also placed 3-4 other teams in the top ten each of those years. In field sports, the better teams are using the food too.

I think its the best out there now, Annamaet Ultra tied or just behind. The guy knows his stuff and the ingredient quality is the best. Just look at the ash levels. He makes a 35% protein food with NO vegetable concentrates, 94% animal protein, and ash with a max of 6%. That is astonishing. I also like the use of blood plasma. Studies show it strengthens the immune system so well than antibiotics can be cut back or eliminated in young animals.

The way you can tell a good performance food is how the stool is during stress and exercise. The stool should be no different than at rest.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

BubbaMoose said:


> Oh no. Gross! Glad I've never had to come in contact with it.  Thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If you've ever bought cheap dog treats, like canine carryouts, beggin strips, ect- similar smell.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> Here we go with the false information about corn. That train always arrives on time. Corn is not high in sugar at all. Peas, sweet potato, carrots, etc all have dramatically higher sugar content.


Do you have a citation for this?


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> Do you have a citation for this?


Citation as in a source? Look on any nutrition website. Corn has 1 gram of sugar per cup (160 grams). Peas have 8 grams per cup (145 grams).

Almost everything you read on forums like this about corn is completely false.

I like the one that corn isn't digestible, but in fact its much more digestible than potato, sweet potato or peas. Over 90% digestible on average. Like any starch is just has to be gelatinzed.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> Citation as in a source? Look on any nutrition website. Corn has 1 gram of sugar per cup (160 grams). Peas have 8 grams per cup (145 grams).
> 
> Almost everything you read on forums like this about corn is completely false.
> 
> I like the one that corn isn't digestible, but in fact its much more digestible than potato, sweet potato or peas. Over 90% digestible on average. Like any starch is just has to be gelatinzed.


Okay I know that, just wondering if you had an article that was referring specifically to its use in pet food- especially since "corn gluten meal" is a much more common form of corn in pet foods than "whole ground corn."

Trying to find some info about the sugar content in different corn formulations, with no success  anyone?


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> Okay I know that, just wondering if you had an article that was referring specifically to its use in pet food- especially since "corn gluten meal" is a much more common form of corn in pet foods than "whole ground corn."
> 
> Trying to find some info about the sugar content in different corn formulations, with no success  anyone?


The USDA website shows ground yellow corn at 1.6 grams per cup, others at 1.1 grams. Corn Gluten should have zero sugar. Ground corn is just as common, more so probably. Most Eukanuba foods have ground corn but no corn gluten.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5692/2


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> The USDA website shows ground yellow corn at 1.6 grams per cup, others at 1.1 grams. Corn Gluten should have zero sugar. Ground corn is just as common, more so probably. Most Eukanuba foods have ground corn but no corn gluten.
> 
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5692/2


But it does appear that peas (when used as a filler in dog food) have a lower carb content and higher fiber- would you say that is correct?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Bumper1 said:


> Dent Field Corn does not taste sweet at all.


I think field corn has a starchy sweetness to it. Not like sweet corn, no, but as a vegetable it is on the "sweet" side of things comparatively.  I would think that to a dog, with their sense of smell, corn would smell and taste relatively sweet.

Peanut is a legume and around here they all go crazy for peanuts so if you think "dogs hate the taste of legumes", then maybe some dogs have different tastes than your dogs...


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

My dog will happily eat cat poop or puke, moose poop, or bear scat. I don't consider his tastes to be a determining factor of what is nutritious for him.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

packetsmom said:


> My dog will happily eat cat poop or puke, moose poop, or bear scat. I don't consider his tastes to be a determining factor of what is nutritious for him.


Hahaha yeah for real. 

Heck, if it's "fresh" enough, dog poop might be his idea of an "appetizer". 

Then, of course, he loves lemon cake, doughnuts, cinnamon rolls - not exactly the best for him either.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> But it does appear that peas (when used as a filler in dog food) have a lower carb content and higher fiber- would you say that is correct?


Peas have more protein and less carbohydrate that is true. The word filler is a bad word, it means very little. Things are in foods for a purpose, whether I agree with the purpose or not. 

Corn is not used to the same extent as peas, lentils, chickpeas, etc.

You have to look at the whole formula and decide how much total carbohydrate the food has, whether there are peas, corn, rice or whatever.

Let me give you a really good example. Pro Pac Performance 30/20 uses ground yellow corn and has total carbohydrate at around 28% of calories, pretty low. Something like Earthborn GRAIN FREE Meadow Feast 26/15 will have total carbohydrate of around 40%, very big difference.

So yes, per gram peas have less carbohydrate than corn but foods with corn generally have much more animal protein because corn is very low in protein. Peas and other legumes and legume derivatives are being used to substitute for more expensive animal protein. You cannot do that with ground corn or any other grain for that matter.

I gave you one example that you have to look at the total formula as well.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> Let me give you a really good example. Pro Pac Performance 30/20 uses ground yellow corn and has total carbohydrate at around 28% of calories, pretty low. Something like Earthborn GRAIN FREE Meadow Feast 26/15 will have total carbohydrate of around 40%, very big difference.


How do you derive these numbers? (/where can you find ash content numbers online?)


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> How do you derive these numbers? (/where can you find ash content numbers online?)


I can almost do the Atwater calculation in my head. Ash is not required to be disclosed. That is why many really crappy foods won't disclose it but good ones will like Dr. Tim's, Annamaet, Precise and some others do. 

If you call them they will generally tell you what the Ash is. Ash is like a woman's diary. It tells you all the secrets about the quality of the ingredients used.

The higher the ash the more bone is in the proteins sources, more bone equals more calcium and more phosphorous. More bone equals lower costs to the pet food company. Simple as that.

Ever wonder why Taste of the Wild is so cheap? 1) Lots of cheap bone-laden protein and 2) Pea Protein & Potato Protein concentrate.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> I can almost do the Atwater calculation in my head. Ash is not required to be disclosed. That is why many really crappy foods won't disclose it but good ones will like Dr. Tim's, Annamaet, Precise and some others do.
> 
> If you call them they will generally tell you what the Ash is. Ash is like a woman's diary. It tells you all the secrets about the quality of the ingredients used.
> 
> ...


Okay... so what is the downside of protein from bone? Are you saying bone = lower quality protein, or just that bone = higher Ca/P levels?


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Rescued said:


> Okay... so what is the downside of protein from bone? Are you saying bone = lower quality protein, or just that bone = higher Ca/P levels?


I am saying both. It is poor quality protein #1 and #2 it introduces mineral levels that are too high. #2 is an actual danger whereas #1 means the food has less usable protein than the label suggests.

Dogs need around 2% - 3% mineral, when you get to 10%, 11% & 12% you are taking a lot of risk. When you get a puppy it doesn't come with a sticker on its head saying "Heathy Kidneys for Life". Kidney disease is the second largest killer of some breeds after cancer.

Another thing, calcium oxalate stones used to be pretty rare. Now you seen them often even in females. Why? Rising ash levels. Skin problems due to zinc deficiency are on the rise. Why? Ash interferes with zinc absorption.

If you can do one good thing for your dog, pick a food with low ash and controlled phosphorous.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I don't know, but Jackson lovessss 'the bad foods'. Purina, Euk, Royal Canin. He chows down. But I'm not sure if it's simply because it's different or exciting... since the only time he's gotten bites of those foods is when we visit friends or family houses. He really hasn't liked many other kibbles - Dr. Tim's GF is what we're trying now... we're over halfway thru the bag now though and it hasn't stopped him having loose stool while on a walk which is what I was hoping it would do. I think I'm just going to chalk it up to the excitement because no food has ever stopped that. He's completely regular otherwise, if we just stay at home, or play fetch outside, etc. But we're going to continue this bag but I haven't seen any major noticeable differences for better or worse. However, taste-wise, he HATES Tims and Annamaet. Maybe I need to try the regular grain inclusive Kinesis. Taste-wise, Acana was by far always his favorite kibble (besides the 'crappy' foods).


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Junk food is tasty? Why do people choose to eat french fries instead of vegetables? I figure it's about the same.


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## MaDeuce (Sep 5, 2013)

Yup, same reason why McDonalds, Burger King and Wendys are booming...

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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I don't know, but Jackson lovessss 'the bad foods'. Purina, Euk, Royal Canin. He chows down. But I'm not sure if it's simply because it's different or exciting... since the only time he's gotten bites of those foods is when we visit friends or family houses. He really hasn't liked many other kibbles - Dr. Tim's GF is what we're trying now... we're over halfway thru the bag now though and it hasn't stopped him having loose stool while on a walk which is what I was hoping it would do. I think I'm just going to chalk it up to the excitement because no food has ever stopped that. He's completely regular otherwise, if we just stay at home, or play fetch outside, etc. But we're going to continue this bag but I haven't seen any major noticeable differences for better or worse. However, taste-wise, he HATES Tims and Annamaet. Maybe I need to try the regular grain inclusive Kinesis. Taste-wise, Acana was by far always his favorite kibble (besides the 'crappy' foods).


All of those brands use very good, low ash by-product meals that is why he likes them. You should feed little Jackson once a day in the evening. That will help with going poo on walks. Also, cut his food by about 10%. Try those two things. I am sure he is high energy and food that is not digested well will move through him quickly. I think once a day will solve your problem or at least help.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Bumper1 said:


> All of those brands use very good, low ash by-product meals that is why he likes them. You should feed little Jackson once a day in the evening. That will help with going poo on walks. Also, cut his food by about 10%. Try those two things. I am sure he is high energy and food that is not digested well will move through him quickly. I think once a day will solve your problem or at least help.


Nope, we've had this discussion on another forum lol. He used to be fed once a day and it didn't matter. Plus he is usually begging for his breakfast in the mornings now so I know he's hungry. I prefer feeding twice a day. I won't feed less than what I already am (1/2 cup per day). He's about 18lbs and active. But thank you for the feedback!


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