# Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural or Canidae Grain Free



## agalf (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm currently feeding our 3-months old boxer Royal Canin but he poops around 5-6 times a day from it, so I'm looking for another brand. We live in Belarus so it's not so many brands available. I've found "Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural" but can I really feed him with a diet so high in protein (38 %), I've heard both good and bad things about feeding a high-protein diet for puppies of a large breed. I've also found Canidae Grain Free. But which of them is the best?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I can't speak to the protein content for a puppy (hopefully someone else will) but I feed the Primitive Natural and like it very much. It is a "5-star" food on dogfoodadvisor and the ingredient list is very good. I have fed it to my 75 lbs adult dog for 2 years and have switched over 2 foster dogs to it (35 lbs 9 month old pit and 30 lbs 1 yr old GSD mix) and both of the fosters did well on it... smaller poops, less smelly, their coats improved and got more soft and shiny.


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## Adventure (Apr 4, 2011)

I believe Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural has high percentages of calcium/phosphorus and I would worry more over that than protein. I can't remember the exact values but I e-mailed the company a few months ago asking and that's what kept me from purchasing it.

Eta:
I looked up Canidae's Pure Elements and their percentages are
As fed; 2% calcium/ 1.5% phosphorus
Dry matter; 2.2% calcium/ 1.6% phosphorus

I believe Earthborn's will look pretty much the same as Canidae's.

The correct ratio of calcium to phosphorus is 1.2:1. So 1.2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus. I believe pups should get between .8 and 1.5 percent calcium and between .6 and 1.2 percent phosphorus. Excess calcium is sometimes blamed for bone problems in growing dogs.

Although I could be wrong and I hope someone with more knowledge chimes in. I'm on my cellphone so research tends to be a little slow and I've been known to confuse things and make mistakes before!

While they both look like great food ingredient wise, I would probably not feed either to a pup and wouldn't feed it to my adults since they need a great deal less calcium/phosphorus than growing puppies. Just my opinion.  I'm sure many people feed it with no problems, I just wouldn't.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Below I've pasted the ingredient information on both the brands - I was actually curious myself since I've never looked at these brands before. Supposively the ingredients are listed in order based on their content in the food, and the first 3 ingredients on both brands are protien so that's a good sign. I'm not educated enough regarding the calcium/phosphorus ingredients and how bad they are, but calcium carbonate shows up as the 20th ingredient on Earthborn, and like the 40th on the Canidae. The first handful of ingredients on both brands looks pretty good IMO though.

EARTHBORN

Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Whitefish Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Tomato Pomace, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Peas, Spinach, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Cottage Cheese, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Beta-Carotene, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, L-Carnitine, Vitamin B12 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Biotin, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.

CANIDAE GRAIN-FREE PURE ELEMENTS

Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, ocean fish meal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, papaya, pineapple.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

You cannot determine the amount of calcium from reading the ingredients. Meat meals can have lots of calcium in them.

Protein is good for all dogs, it is the excessive calcium for large breed dogs that is the problem. If the skeleton grows too fast serious problems can develop later in life.

They do sell a grainy puppy formula and the amount of calcium is suitable for large breed dogs. Maybe that would be better than the RC.
http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/us/dog_formulas/puppy_vantage/guaranteed_analysis.php


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## agalf (Dec 8, 2011)

What about Canidae All Life Stage? Maybe that's better until he mature and then switch to Canidae Grain Free?


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

I'd go with Earthborn. I've fed it and had great results on it (and also love the other GF formula, great plains feast, which is lower in protein at 32%). 

Earthborn is manufactured by Midwestern Pet Foods, which I would trust more than Diamond (who makes Canidae). Canidae's grain free is super expensive from what I've seen, more so than it's worth. I think EB is cheaper compared to the GF Canidae everywhere I've seen the two.


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## agalf (Dec 8, 2011)

meggels said:


> I'd go with Earthborn. I've fed it and had great results on it (and also love the other GF formula, great plains feast, which is lower in protein at 32%).
> 
> Earthborn is manufactured by Midwestern Pet Foods, which I would trust more than Diamond (who makes Canidae). Canidae's grain free is super expensive from what I've seen, more so than it's worth. I think EB is cheaper compared to the GF Canidae everywhere I've seen the two.


Here Earthborn cost much more, it cost around 30 USD more and you don't get 13,5 kg as for Canidae but 12.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

The Canidae ALS is fine, just low in protein. The calcium is 1.2% which is fine. None of the other formulas are okay as Adventure mentioned.

Maybe you could make stewed meat and substitute it for some of the kibble to increase meat content? Eggs, liver, fish are all fine additions to the diet anyway.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I feed taste of the wild they have puppy foods now (tho I haven't seen them in stores yet) in the high prairie & pacific stream varieties tho I do not know the CALCIUM content ..... The thing I believe one has to watch with a large breed(s) (if it's a mix of course  ) I don't know the right ratio of calcium, having never had a large/giant breed. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable then me will chime in. 

Oh before I forget, here is the site addy for the dog food advisor: www.dogfoodadvisor.com


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## agalf (Dec 8, 2011)

Kathyy said:


> The Canidae ALS is fine, just low in protein. The calcium is 1.2% which is fine. None of the other formulas are okay as Adventure mentioned.
> 
> Maybe you could make stewed meat and substitute it for some of the kibble to increase meat content? Eggs, liver, fish are all fine additions to the diet anyway.


Yeah eggs should be fine to give him. But how often should we give it to him? Can we fry them?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Max gets raw egg but he eats raw. If we have scrambled egg I scrape the pan and add water. Fried is fine if that is how you usually fix them. Another of my issues with kibble is it is low in fat and fat is really good for dogs so don't be concerned that you are adding a little fat to the kibble along with the egg.

He can have lots of egg, dogs on special diets may use only egg for the protein they get but one a day for a big dog is probably the limit. And don't start with that amount! Start with just a bit and increase the amount as you see he is tolerating it. Egg is rich and if you are frying them that adds fat. Both can cause poop issues so start small!


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Any idea what the Earthborn Vantage Adult formula kibble size looks like?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

They are all tiny kibble as far as I know. Suitable for little dogs.

ETA: They sell a $3 sample size bag that is about 3 cups and it has a coupon on the bag for $3 off any of the full size bags, so its a risk free way to try it out. I bought a sample bag of the fish formula to use as training treats since it smells different than Chester's regular food (of course, he's a hound so its all good to him)


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

OK, funnily enough, Jackson prefers larger kibble most of the time, so I tend to gravitate towards bigger kibble (like Natural Balance and Acana size).

There is actually no retailers near me, listed on their site anyways. So if I were to try it, I'd have to order online.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> OK, funnily enough, Jackson prefers larger kibble most of the time, so I tend to gravitate towards bigger kibble (like Natural Balance and Acana size).
> 
> There is actually no retailers near me, listed on their site anyways. So if I were to try it, I'd have to order online.




It's more like a NB kibble, but kind of triangular in shape.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

The fish variety has a larger kibble size  (or did when I last tried it)


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