# vegetarian dog foods???



## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

I am wondering if anybody on here has fed their dog and vegetarian dog food and if so what brand it was, if it was canned or dry and whether or not your dog liked it. 
Thankyou in advance for your help. I look forward to hearing anybody's replies on this.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

There is absolutely no sound reason to feed dogs a vegetarian diet, unless that dog has been diagnosed with some medical problem necessitating the elimination of meat from the diet, or risk death. 

Dogs are meat eaters. WHY on earth would you be interested in vegetarian dog food?


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

thanks for sharing your opinion with me but however that was not my question.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/se...andard&OVADID=18801080012&OVKWID=180673616512

You might try this source. I believe they sell some vegetarian dog foods. But, the fact is that dogs are basically carnivores and most of them do better on meat than on a vegetarian diet. So if you decide to go with this type diet, please be very careful and check the diet with a canine nutritionist to make sure your dog is actually getting all the nutrients it needs.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

I would be very careful with this. Soy flour is an unwanted ingredient in dog food, so I'm not sure how well they would do on soy protein. I understand your desire to feed the dog vegetarian as you eat vegetarian, but the simple fact of the matter is you are an omnivore. You can survive on a diet that consists of no meat. You dog is a carnivore and can not survive on a diet that consists of no meat. You MAY be able to get away with soy protein, but you'll have to give supplements for the missing nutrients in your dog's diet. 

My plea to you is to realize the very ancestral and genetic makeup of your animal and treat it right. You dog is a meat eater and should eat meat. If you have objections, consider feeding a raw diet with kosher/halal/free range meat. Use free range organic eggs in the diet. Please don't deprive your dog of necessary nutrition to support your own ideologies.


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## secondchance (Sep 9, 2008)

Can I ask why you are interested in feeding vegetarian?


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## HersheyPup (May 22, 2008)

**** Van Patten's Natural Balance makes a vegetarian dog food.

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/Vegetarian.html

I've read the ingredients and can't see myself feeding it to my dog, but there must be a market for it. 

I wanted to add that Natura makes Karma http://www.karmaorganicpet.com/, which is certified 95% organic and they use free-range, certified organic chicken as their only meat source. The dog food is mostly vegetarian, it appears to have very little meat. This might be a healthy compromise for you and your dog. Best of Luck!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> thanks for sharing your opinion with me but however that was not my question.


You got a better answer than your question asked for.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> I am wondering if anybody on here has fed their dog and vegetarian dog food and if so what brand it was, if it was canned or dry and whether or not your dog liked it.
> Thankyou in advance for your help. I look forward to hearing anybody's replies on this.


I am not bashing on you here. But by your member name and the wording of your question, I have to assume you with to feed your dog a vegetarian diet based on personal feelings and opinions towards consuming meat. 

IF your personal convictions are that strong you should not own a carnivore as a pet. It is unfair, unhealthy, and unethical to force your personal feelings on an animal whose digestive system and organ functions are set up to eat primarily a meat diet.


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> You got a better answer than your question asked for.


not really since I never said that I fed my dog vegetarian.....


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I am not bashing on you here. But by your member name and the wording of your question, I have to assume you with to feed your dog a vegetarian diet based on personal feelings and opinions towards consuming meat.
> 
> IF your personal convictions are that strong you should not own a carnivore as a pet. It is unfair, unhealthy, and unethical to force your personal feelings on an animal whose digestive system and organ functions are set up to eat primarily a meat diet.


once again......I am not bashing you here either but i never said that I was a vegetarian or that I had any intentions of feeding my dog vegetarian...you people are strange!!!!


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I am not bashing on you here. But by your member name and the wording of your question, I have to assume you with to feed your dog a vegetarian diet based on personal feelings and opinions towards consuming meat.
> 
> IF your personal convictions are that strong you should not own a carnivore as a pet. It is unfair, unhealthy, and unethical to force your personal feelings on an animal whose digestive system and organ functions are set up to eat primarily a meat diet.


once again......I am not bashing you here either but i never said that I was a vegetarian or that I had any intentions of feeding my dog vegetarian...you people need to read my post and stop analyzing it....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> once again......I am not bashing you here either but i never said that I was a vegetarian or that I had any intentions of feeding my dog vegetarian...you people need to read my post and stop analyzing it....


Then why would you even ask any questions about vegetarian diets for dogs if you are not considering feeding one?


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

and just a tid bit of information.....some dogs can do very well on a vegetarian diet while others may not. It all depends on many different things. There is alot of evidence that supports these claims that I do not have the time or desire to look up on the internet since this was never my original question to begin with...you people just read into what I was asking
I was looking to hear from those that have fed their dog vegetarian dog food and what there experience was with it....if you have not than please do not bother me with this ridicuolousness......I did not ask for peoples opinions on the subject...



JohnnyBandit said:


> Then why would you even ask any questions about vegetarian diets for dogs if you are not considering feeding one?


isn't that my business.


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## RRM_Mom08 (May 5, 2008)

If you don't plan on feeding veggie then why do you want to know brands and types (canned/kibble) of veggie foods are out there and how there dogs are doing on them ? ..This is something I go indepth with new puppy owners on espically if they are veggie themselves dogs need meat to thrive and be healthy..I really see no need for them to even make/market veggie food except for the fact that hard core vegan's and animal curelty folks want to feel good about themselves.

well then why don't you ask your question on a veggie board ??? Where there are like minded people that feel the same as you 

You see we here understand that dogs require MEAT (not soy..I don't even feed that to my children let alone my dogs)


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> and just a tid bit of information.....some dogs can do very well on a vegetarian diet while others may not. It all depends on many different things. There is alot of evidence that supports these claims that I do not have the time or desire to look up on the internet since this was never my original question to begin with...you people just read into what I was asking
> I was looking to hear from those that have fed their dog vegetarian dog food and what there experience was with it....if you have not than please do not bother me with this ridicuolousness......I did not ask for peoples opinions on the subject...
> 
> 
> ...


I have done a fair amount of dog food and feeding research over the years. The only places I have ever seen that advocated feeding dogs a vegetarian diet are those that advocate not eating meat what so ever.

There is no biological evidence that a dog could thrive on a vegetarian diet. 

It makes about as much sense to feed a dog a vegetarian diet as it would be to feed a cow chicken wings. 

Here is a fact for you. Dogs CANNOT digest or absorb cellular nutrients unless the cell walls are broken down. Which means pre digested or pureed. Even then while dogs can absorb some nutrients and probably benefit from some of the vitamins and minerals and acids in the pureed vegetable matter, (I feed a little pureed vegetable matter) a dog will not get all the nutrients it needs from vegetable matter.

That being said, dogs are pretty resiliant. They may survive on it, but they will not thrive on it.


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## secondchance (Sep 9, 2008)

secondchance said:


> Can I ask why you are interested in feeding vegetarian?


I am quoting myself here.... Not trying to read into your post, asking for clarification before I make assumptions...
so once again, what interests you about feeding your dog a vegetarian diet?


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

for those that doubt that dogs can survive off a vegetarian diet.....what about dogs with meat allergies????

I will ignore everyone on here that does not respond to the question that I asked regarding if they have had experience feeding their dogs a vegetarian dog food. I have no interest in discussing my personal affairs as to why I want to know this since I do not know anybody on here and I do not feel that it is anybody's business but my own.

If you are not responding to my original post you are wasting your time saying anything else since I will not pay any attention to it.

I believe that there is someone on here that has fed their dog veggie dog food and that is the only people I want to hear from, thankyou.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> for those that doubt that dogs can survive off a vegetarian diet.....what about dogs with meat allergies????


There are no dogs allergic to raw meat. A dog being allergic to meat is like a cow or horse allergic to grass. It just doesn't happen. Some kibble feeders think their dog is allergic to certain meat, but with all the other ingredients in kibble, they have no way of knowing and I maintain they are not allergic to meat.



> I will ignore everyone on here that does not respond to the question that I asked regarding if they have had experience feeding their dogs a vegetarian dog food.


Feeding a dog a vegetarian diet is like feeding meat to a cow, horse, rabbit, goat, or sheep. Dogs absolutely cannot digest nor extract sufficient nutrients from plant matter. Their mouth, teeth, stomach, pancreas, liver, and intestines prevent it. All thier digestive system is designed and very well equipped to eat and digest meat, bones, and organs. They cannot digest plant material. Yes you can process plant material and keep a dog alive using nothing but plants but who wants to do that?



> I have no interest in discussing my personal affairs as to why I want to know this since I do not know anybody on here and I do not feel that it is anybody's business but my own.


You can't discuss feeding dogs plant matter because you don't have enough knowledge to justify it. If you want to be a vegetarian, fine but don't force it on your dogs. I think you would do much better with a pet rabbit than a dog.



> If you are not responding to my original post you are wasting your time saying anything else since I will not pay any attention to it.


Because you don't have the knowledge to defend an indefencable stand.



> I believe that there is someone on here that has fed their dog veggie dog food and that is the only people I want to hear from, thankyou.


Yeah there may be but the dog died. Learn a little bit about canine biology and you will see why it doesn't work.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> for those that doubt that dogs can survive off a vegetarian diet.....what about dogs with meat allergies????
> 
> I will ignore everyone on here that does not respond to the question that I asked regarding if they have had experience feeding their dogs a vegetarian dog food. I have no interest in discussing my personal affairs as to why I want to know this since I do not know anybody on here and I do not feel that it is anybody's business but my own.
> 
> ...


You are free to ignore anyone you wish..... But this is a public forum and when you start a thread it is very rare that you will get every post in agreement. Additionally you cannot prevent members from posting on a thread you start. 

And I must have missed it because I did not see anyone say that they did not think a dog would survive on a vegetarian diet. I specifically said they would. What I said is they would not thrive. There is a big difference between surviving and thriving.... Dogs are pretty resiliant and can "survive" on all sorts of diets. Including scavanging. But that does not mean they are healthy or will live out to a normal life expectancy.

As for the meat allergies.. Some dogs (very few) show sensitivities to certain protien sources. But there are a great many protien sources out there. If a dog is sensitive to beef, feed lamb, chicken feed duck, turkey feed rabbit, etc.... 

In any case..... Keeping a pet carnivore with the intention of feeding it a vegetarian is negligent at best and borders on cruelty......


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

I haven't.....but my cousin did....keyword is did...because her dog died of malnutrition even though it was being fed everyday.

Feed vegitarian if you wish...just know that you are responsible for the consequences.


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## secondchance (Sep 9, 2008)

My close friend fed her dogs veg. when she was trying to deal with food allergies and couldn't pinpoint what protein they were sensitive to. Their bm's got worse, so did their coats, teeth, energy levels etc. She is a very strict vegan and has been for a very long time, in the end she decided to switched them to a non vegetarian food. 
The reason I want to know why you are asking is because if you are having a pet feeding issue or exploring new options this is a great place to get some useful information. If you would simply tell us why we could give you more accurate information.
But since you are being rather stubborn about it I am just going to assume (based on your name) that it is a "cruelty to animals" issue. If this is the case I would like to point out that it is kind of hypocritical to feed a dog an unsuitable diet (which veg is, and which I strongly feel is CRUEL) just so that you can feed them a "cruelty free" diet that doesn't kill animals.
If you feed veg because you are a vegetarian you are being cruel. You are forcing your values onto another being that relies on you to make decisions with their best interest in mind.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> I am wondering if anybody on here has fed their dog and vegetarian dog food and if so what brand it was, if it was canned or dry and whether or not your dog liked it.
> Thankyou in advance for your help. I look forward to hearing anybody's replies on this.


I do not feed my dogs a vegan diet, but I was talking to a lady today that does. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get much info b/c I was busy with other clients. I found the following links perhaps they will be helpful. I know not as good as someone actually feeding vegan........ 

http://www.vegetariandogs.com/

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/dogfood1.html

http://www.vegepet.com/

Good luck.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Patt said:


> I do not feed my dogs a vegan diet, but I was talking to a lady today that does. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get much info b/c I was busy with other clients. I found the following links perhaps they will be helpful. I know not as good as someone actually feeding vegan........
> 
> http://www.vegetariandogs.com/
> 
> ...


The second site reccomends feeding dogs whole apples.... Apple seeds contain cyanide.


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## kendallj (Apr 22, 2007)

my friend has a dog that was sick for the first two years of his life.. he was in and out of the vet hospital... and was REALLY sick! finally she was refered to a histologist that looked at the lining of his intestins (which is wear the issue was centered) and she did extensive tested and found that his symptoms were caused by inflamation that was caused by an allergy to protein... yes protein... she has tried taking him off just red meat... that did nothing... she took him off chicken and tried duck.. that made it worse... she tried fish... no change... she tried venisin... basically every meat that you can think of... she even tried homemade foods... NOTHING the only thing that worked was a prescription diet (ZD) which basically is a vegatarian diet... she is now mixing it with a vegetarian diet and other than he cant seem to gain weight he is doing well... he has been symptom free and inflamation free for almost a year!!! So there IS such a thing as a dog allergic to meat... and FYI... there IS such a thing as a cow having an allergy to grass.... its rare.. but it DOES happen....please check your facts before you make a difinitive comment... thanks


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## boxergirl87 (Oct 19, 2008)

Nature's recipe vegetarian diet works well. One of my dogs is a vegetarian, not by choice and that food works as well as it can. It depends on your dog's situation.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

kendallj said:


> my friend has a dog that was sick for the first two years of his life.. he was in and out of the vet hospital... and was REALLY sick! finally she was refered to a histologist that looked at the lining of his intestins (which is wear the issue was centered) and she did extensive tested and found that his symptoms were caused by inflamation that was caused by an allergy to protein... yes protein... she has tried taking him off just red meat... that did nothing... she took him off chicken and tried duck.. that made it worse... she tried fish... no change... she tried venisin... basically every meat that you can think of... she even tried homemade foods... NOTHING the only thing that worked was a prescription diet (ZD) which basically is a vegatarian diet... she is now mixing it with a vegetarian diet and other than he cant seem to gain weight he is doing well... he has been symptom free and inflamation free for almost a year!!! So there IS such a thing as a dog allergic to meat... and FYI... there IS such a thing as a cow having an allergy to grass.... its rare.. but it DOES happen....please check your facts before you make a difinitive comment... thanks


Can you site your reference regarding the cow/grass issue...I would love to read it ..it sounds interesting


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

pugmom said:


> Can you site your reference regarding the cow/grass issue...I would love to read it ..it sounds interesting


I wouldn't mind reading something on it either. I have been in or around the cattle industry the majority of my life. I have seen cases in which cattle (and horses) have respiratory allergies to grasses. But have never heard of allergies in livestock related to eating grass.


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## secondchance (Sep 9, 2008)

I also would like to read it!
what kendallj is saying is true, i am sure there are instances where a vegetarian diet is the right food, although in most cases it isn't. Once again kfc, that is why I am asking why you want to know about veg. foods? If your dog has a health problem that is a whole other can of worms, and you would likely get a completely different response to your question, and a different attitude from some of the posters.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

kendallj said:


> finally she was refered to a histologist that looked at the lining of his intestins (which is wear the issue was centered) and she did extensive tested and found that his symptoms were caused by inflamation that was caused by an allergy to protein... yes protein... she has tried taking him off just red meat... that did nothing... she took him off chicken and tried duck.. that made it worse... she tried fish... no change... she tried venisin... basically every meat that you can think of... she even tried homemade foods... NOTHING the only thing that worked was a prescription diet (ZD) which basically is a vegatarian diet


Thats the most convoluted test for an allergy I have ever seen in my life. There is no way that test proves allergy to meat proteins. 



> So there IS such a thing as a dog allergic to meat


It's not proven in that test. 



> there IS such a thing as a cow having an allergy to grass.... its rare.. but it DOES happen....please check your facts before you make a difinitive comment... thanks


I would also like to see more about this.

I stand by my definitive comments.


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## HersheyPup (May 22, 2008)

I know of an older scottie dog that had very bad kidneys along with a myriad of other health issues and their Vet put the dog on a vegetarian diet. The dog lived another year or slightly longer than they thought she would. I cannot say whether or not it was the vegetarian food that kept her alive longer than expected, but she was unable to process hardly any protein.

That is the only dog I know/knew personally that was eating a veg diet.


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## Canadian Dog (Nov 3, 2007)

kfccruelty said:


> I am wondering if anybody on here has fed their dog and vegetarian dog food and if so what brand it was, if it was canned or dry and whether or not your dog liked it.
> Thankyou in advance for your help. I look forward to hearing anybody's replies on this.


Answer: No.

Reason: Why would anyone even consider it, unless it's a 'boy in the bubble' situation?


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## rokinrandy (Oct 19, 2008)

I've been researching the net all day long in hopes of getting my dog back to normal. without the vet bills. Her symptoms are very close as to what some may consider to be allergies to food or inadequate nutrition from what I have gathered..

The only thing I have found so far is there is still insufficient proof for dogs being allergic directly to meat .. supposedly this also has been done by scientist for a long period of time.. I also found a lot more convincing evidence that the dogs anatomy is designed to digest and receive the nutrients from meat more than vegetables ... I'm leaning towards taking the advice of "rawfooddogs" and some of the others because of this..

But I am not a vet or k-9 nutritionist... I feel your best bet is to listen to the people that specialize in nutrition for dogs. . They seem to be the ones that really know what is going on inside your dog while they eat store bought foods , veggies, raw food..and everything else.. 

But hey ,these people here are just trying to help you, don't get all mad and pissy with them. answer theyre questions. 
They are just concerned about your pets well being, I'm sure they could care less about yours at this point ...So listen to them, it's hard to find people to care enough to help anyone these days and do your own research as well .. 
good luck with your pet,RR


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

HersheyPup said:


> I know of an older scottie dog that had very bad kidneys along with a myriad of other health issues and their Vet put the dog on a vegetarian diet.


In some situations, bad kidneys have a difficult time processing the highly processed meat in kibble but never raw meat. Raw meat is good for a dog with kidney problems. The fat level should be kept down however.

I'm sure the vet didn't know this as, in general, they know so little about raw meat and how the dog's body handles it. All they are familiar with is what the kibble salespeople tell them.


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

boxergirl87 said:


> Nature's recipe vegetarian diet works well. One of my dogs is a vegetarian, not by choice and that food works as well as it can. It depends on your dog's situation.


thankyou boxergirl, that was all that I was trying to find out. Thanks for simply reading my question and answering it since that was all I was asking. I do not understand why people on here felt the need to assume and attack me without even knowing all the facts. 
I conclude that the people on here do not like animal rights activists and made assumptions on here about me based on my chosen username Which is why I will not be taking part in this forum any further after I get my anwers to this.

Anyway, I was just wondering how your dog likes the taste of Natures Recipe as opposed to the meat based? Did he/she automatically like it or did you need to coax her into eating it?
Thanks in advance.

.



secondchance said:


> My close friend fed her dogs veg. when she was trying to deal with food allergies and couldn't pinpoint what protein they were sensitive to. Their bm's got worse, so did their coats, teeth, energy levels etc. She is a very strict vegan and has been for a very long time, in the end she decided to switched them to a non vegetarian food.
> The reason I want to know why you are asking is because if you are having a pet feeding issue or exploring new options this is a great place to get some useful information. If you would simply tell us why we could give you more accurate information.
> But since you are being rather stubborn about it I am just going to assume (based on your name) that it is a "cruelty to animals" issue. If this is the case I would like to point out that it is kind of hypocritical to feed a dog an unsuitable diet (which veg is, and which I strongly feel is CRUEL) just so that you can feed them a "cruelty free" diet that doesn't kill animals.
> If you feed veg because you are a vegetarian you are being cruel. You are forcing your values onto another being that relies on you to make decisions with their best interest in mind.


Can you really blame me for not wanting to share the reason for my question when people on here make assumptions and start lecturing to me about it before hand.
Put yourself in my shoes, would you confide in people that attack a person before knowing the facts?
I simply asked a question and wanted an answer to that question and I do not see why I should have to devulge any further information than that in order to get my question answered.
But just for the record,and since you seem to insist on knowing....It was not something I was even planning on feeding my dog. I wanted to know which would be the best vegetarian dog food to donate to a local charity that a dog would find most palatable.
and also just for the record...my dog is probably the most healthiest and happiest dog around. she goes to the vet regularly and never has had any problems. In fact, if anything she is spoiled rotten. so there is no need to worry about my dog being treated cruelly by any means.
She is a semi vegetarian. She always has animal based food available to her via dry food and I also feed her animal based canned food as well. She even gets to eat things like ham and chicken sometimes. I get unwanted food from a local soup kitchen that I give to her. But I also offer her vegetarian food as well. And she quite often perfers it. 
My dog has a wide variety of food to eat. She is really more fortunate than most dogs who get fed the same hum drum food all the time. 
as you can see, she is far from deprived.
I always think about her and do things for her. I have no kids so she is my baby.
As an animal rights activist I fight animal cruelty. I do not promote it or do it.



JohnnyBandit said:


> I have done a fair amount of dog food and feeding research over the years. The only places I have ever seen that advocated feeding dogs a vegetarian diet are those that advocate not eating meat what so ever.
> 
> There is no biological evidence that a dog could thrive on a vegetarian diet.
> 
> ...



Thats funny because I too have done a fair amount of research myself on the subject of vegetarianism for dogs and have found that the only ones that bash the vegetarian diet for both people and dogs has been the MEAT INDUSTRY !!

I agree that it does not make sense to feed a cow chicken wings but than again how much sense does it make to feed a dog a cow or a pig. In nature they would only catch and eat things like mice and maybe birds.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> And I too have done a fair amount of research on the subject and the only groups that i have ever seen bashing a vegetarian diet for both people and dogs have been the MEAT INDUSTRY and all their special interest friends!!


Hehe, you just accept what your "animal rights' friends agree with. Look at the world around you. Carnivores live by eating herbivores. It's been the way of nature since time immomorial. Lions, tigers, panthers, wolves and all the rest of carnivores eat herbivores in nature every day. It's all they eat. 

Dogs are carnivores. Their bodies are designed to eat and digest meat, bones, and organs. They cannot survive on plant material in the wild. Their teeth and lower jaw structure doesn't allow them to chew it. Their digestive juices are too acidic to properly digest plant material. Their intestines are too short to absorb nutrients from plant material.

It is nothing short of intentional cruelty to subject a carnivore to a vegetarian diet.

Carnivores were eating meat since millions of years before there was a meat industry. If people had never eaten meat, there would be no meat industry. The meat industry is there to fulfill a demand. Man has been eating meat for millions of years.



> I agree that is does not make sense to feed a cow chicken wings but than again how much sense does it make to feed a dog a cow or a pig. In nature they would only catch and eat things like mice and maybe birds.


In packs dogs would certainly eat cows, pigs, deer, elk, moose, and buffalo just as wild wolves do regularly today. I don't know how you got so far from nature with your beliefs. Your arguments against feeding meat to dogs or humans are based on emotion, not logic or reason.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Feral and Wild dogs quite often attack and kill larger livestock as well as attack and kill everything from deer to antelope to zebra and beyond depending on location.


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## kfccruelty (Jul 17, 2008)

This will likely be my last post and my last visit to this site. I just wanted to ask a simple question and instead I had to be berated because of my beliefs. You people are pathetic and too argumentative and ignorant for me to waste my time with!!You do not even deserve the time i have spent on this already.
Rawfeddogs, do you by any chance work for the meat industry or are you somehow involved with the cruelty to animals industry??? I can see that you are just bent on picking a fight with me perhaps because you disagree with my beliefs that all animals deserve to be free from pain and suffering unless they are of course a dog since that is all you have been taught to believe all your life and you are too closed minded to question these set of beliefs and to think otherwise!!
And since you are bashing vegetarianism and in effect animal rights I feel compelled to tell you how sorry that I feel for you. I , as an Indian, Hindu believe that you and anybody else who takes part in hurting others (in your case through eating meat and promoting it) is bringing on terrible karma to themselves. You will likely have to be reincarnated as the poor animals you have so callously killed for your own desires to eat their flesh!!And you are probably having alot of problems in your life or will wind up running into alot of problems as long as you continue to support violence and death through your meat eating ways. This is the way karma works on an individual level. Never mind what we will all have to suffer as a whole for what we have done and continue to do to animals for our own selfish desires.
Meat eating is not necessary, in fact humans do better without it. Our teeth are not designed to eat animal flesh and the fact that we have to cook it in order to eat it or else we will get sick proves that we are not meant to eat animals, so since it is not neccesary it is nothing short of murder to do it.
Are you aware that the average US meat eater kills about 98 animals a year!!And there is no seperating it,if you are buying meat you are the one killing the animal. By paying for meat you are paying someone to kill an animal for you so you are therefore killing the animal yourself.
Just remember that DOGS AND CATS ARE NOT THE ONLY ANIMALS WITH FEELINGS!! FOOD ANIMALS HAVE JUST AS MUCH FEELINGS AS DOGS AND CATS DO!!and many are even smarter than your beloved dog!! although society may try to make you believe otherwise.
There is no sound reason to justify a person to eat meat at this point. Even mainstream groups like the American Diabetes Association and the American Heart Association promote a vegetarian diet. They would never do this if it were not a sound diet. So for a human to eat meat at this point it is out and out cruel!!
You say that meat eating has been around for millions of years but so has vegetarianism!! 
And even so, does that mean we should continue to do something wrong just because we have been doing so for millions of years??
Slavery was around for millions of years as well but we all eventually realized that is was wrong and we no longer do it and the same thing is going to happen regarding meat eating. It will eventually become a thing of the past that people will look back on with disgust just in the same way that we now look back on atrocities like slavery and the holocaust! I know that you are probably not going to believe me on this one but it has already started happening. More and more people are going vegetarian than ever before!!
It just never ceases to amaze me that there can be people who love animals such as cats and dogs so much that they would participate in a dog forum but yet not think twice about paying someone to torture and kill a poor helpless pig for them just to satisfy their desires to eat their flesh. 
HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop being robots and doing what everyone else does just because that is all that you were taught to believe!! 
In closing, I recommed that you people read the book "Animal Liberation" and learn to include in your circle of compassion not just dogs and cats but all the furry friends that we live amongst.
There is no nice way to say it MEAT IS MURDER and MEAT EATERS ARE MURDERERS!! Plan and simple.



"The question is not, Can they reason?nor, Can they talk?but, Can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham.


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## AkiraleShiba (Dec 9, 2007)

Slavery is still in existence to this day in many parts of the world including in the G8 countries ...

A Forum is made for sharing not lecturing, other members thought they would help you.



HersheyPup said:


> I know of an older scottie dog that had very bad kidneys along with a myriad of other health issues and their Vet put the dog on a vegetarian diet. The dog lived another year or slightly longer than they thought she would. I cannot say whether or not it was the vegetarian food that kept her alive longer than expected, but she was unable to process hardly any protein.
> 
> That is the only dog I know/knew personally that was eating a veg diet.


Actually cereal/vegetable proteins are harder on the kidney


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, this was interesting. Now I'm hungry... Mmmmmmmmm, murder...


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## Max'sHuman (Oct 6, 2007)

kfccruelty said:


> Stop being robots


Does not compute.

LOL, I crack myself up!

Seriously though, I lived in India this summer and my host family had a dog. She was basically fed the family's leftovers which were 99% vegetarian (they occasionally ate eggs). Although I cannot say how her health would compare long-term to a dog on a primarily meat-based diet, she did seem pretty healthy during the duration of my stay with them (about 10 weeks). I suspect that because dog food is not super accessible in India and given that there are so many vegetarians in India, there are probably many dogs on a home-made vegetarian diet. Again, whether that's ideal is debatable, but I assume that many of the animals do OK on it. Heck at the shelter in Jaipur that I volunteered at a few times, the cats were the only animals on a strictly carnivorous diet. The dogs ate mostly milk, digestive biscuits and leftovers donated by local families, hotels and restaurants. I guess that doesn't answer your question about kibble, but I thought it was kind of interesting.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

LOL....I just spit coffee all over my computer 

Danger! Will Robinson Danger!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> This will likely be my last post and my last visit to this site. I just wanted to ask a simple question and instead I had to be berated because of my beliefs.


You weren't berated at all. You were merely questioned and there is a difference. No one called you crazy or a whacko, both of which would have been accurate. I think the people in this thread treated you wish respect.



> You people are pathetic and too argumentative and ignorant for me to waste my time with!!You do not even deserve the time i have spent on this already.


Hehe, Tact is not one of my strong points. 



> Rawfeddogs, do you by any chance work for the meat industry or are you somehow involved with the cruelty to animals industry???


Actually I don't work anywhere and I have never been cruel to an animal in my long adult life.



> I can see that you are just bent on picking a fight with me perhaps because you disagree with my beliefs that all animals deserve to be free from pain and suffering unless they are of course a dog since that is all you have been taught to believe all your life and you are too closed minded to question these set of beliefs and to think otherwise!!


I'm not picking on you, just trying to educate you. Dogs are carnivores. Carnivores eat meat. Dogs do not have the teeth, jaw structure, stomach juices, pancreas, liver, nor intestines to properly eat and digest plant matter. Those are all facts. They are not in dispute by reasonable people who look at the body structure of a dog and are capable of thinking for themselves.



> And since you are bashing vegetarianism and in effect animal rights I feel compelled to tell you how sorry that I feel for you.


Animals have no rights. Do I beleive in animal welfare? Yes, of course. Rights? No. Vegetarianism is great for a human if thats the way you choose to eat but don't force it on your poor carnivore pets. THAT is animal cruelty but of course you can't see that. Your mind is too closed.



> I , as an Indian, Hindu believe that you and anybody else who takes part in hurting others (in your case through eating meat and promoting it) is bringing on terrible karma to themselves. You will likely have to be reincarnated as the poor animals you have so callously killed for your own desires to eat their flesh!!And you are probably having alot of problems in your life or will wind up running into alot of problems as long as you continue to support violence and death through your meat eating ways. This is the way karma works on an individual level.


I'll worry about my own karma but thanks for your concern.



> Meat eating is not necessary, in fact humans do better without it.


Sorry, but I love my meat and have no desire to give it up. It is debatable as to whether humans do better without it.



> Our teeth are not designed to eat animal flesh and the fact that we have to cook it in order to eat it or else we will get sick proves that we are not meant to eat animals, so since it is not neccesary it is nothing short of murder to do it.


Actually, our front teeth ARE designed to eat animal flesh. Back teeth to chew plant matter. If you look at an herbivore's teeth, they are all flat, both front and back.



> Are you aware that the average US meat eater kills about 98 animals a year!!


With the amount of meat I eat, its probably twice that much for me but I have to kill the animals you aren't killing.



> There is no sound reason to justify a person to eat meat at this point. Even mainstream groups like the American Diabetes Association and the American Heart Association promote a vegetarian diet. They would never do this if it were not a sound diet.


Could you point me to some of their literature that promotes vegetarianism?



> So for a human to eat meat at this point it is out and out cruel!!


Just as it's cruel to feed plant matter to a carnivore.



> You say that meat eating has been around for millions of years but so has vegetarianism!!


"Vegetarian" is an old American Indian word that means, "Poor hunter". LOL 



> And even so, does that mean we should continue to do something wrong just because we have been doing so for millions of years??


Yes until some sane person proves it is wrong.



> I know that you are probably not going to believe me on this ...


That is probably the truest statement in your entire post. 



> one but it has already started happening. More and more people are going vegetarian than ever before!!


You are probably a young person but I am not. I have been around a long time and I can promise you that that statement is false.



> It just never ceases to amaze me that there can be people who love animals such as cats and dogs so much that they would participate in a dog forum but yet not think twice about paying someone to torture and kill a poor helpless pig for them just to satisfy their desires to eat their flesh.
> HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Pot - kettle.  It is just as cruel to feed a vegetarian diet to a carnivore.



> Stop being robots and doing what everyone else does just because that is all that you were taught to believe!!


You stop being a robot and stop spreading your vegetarian friend's propoganda. Look around you. There are carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores in this world. In nature the carnivores eat the omnivores and herbivores. It's the natural order of things designed by nature and nature got it right. The world would be overrun with herbivores if not for the carnivores to keep their populations in check.



> In closing, I recommed that you people read the book "Animal Liberation" and learn to include in your circle of compassion not just dogs and cats but all the furry friends that we live amongst.


I suggest you stop reading such books and get out in the world and look around you. Nature created carnivores to eat meat. Their entire body was designed to catch, kill, eat, digest, and eliminate meat. If eating meat was murder, nature would never have designed them so. Stop being a robot. Look around and learn to think for yourself instead of just parrotting other's words.



> There is no nice way to say it MEAT IS MURDER and MEAT EATERS ARE MURDERERS!! Plan and simple.


I hope you don't leave, you are fun.


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## secondchance (Sep 9, 2008)

Take a biology class.. learn about the FOOD CHAIN.
So because your vegetarian peers tell you it is wrong.. we should redefine what a carnivore is? Do you protest when a bear kills a deer? Or a wolf kills one? Is that cruelty? Sure it sucks for the deer... but wouldn't it be just as harsh if the carnivorous animal slowly starved to death?
Now I do agree that the slaughter practices in North America are excessively cruel... and I strongly feel that an animal we consider food has just as much value as one that we consider a pet BUT I will not subject my dog to an unnatural and inadequate diet.
The only person in this forum who started the discussion about humans eating meat was YOU. If you choose to be a vegetarian then go ahead... nobody questioned or argued that point. We do however take issue with someone who nutritionally deprives their dog because of their own personal beliefs.
And since you were so reluctant to give us any further information (your recent explanation doesn't make ANY sense by the way.. why can't you just donate a regular food???) we were forced to make assumptions based on the way you presented yourself. We are all over this topic, BECAUSE we care about your dogs well being and we can't advise you about veg. food because there aren't very many instances where veg. food is appropriate.

One more thing... you have made assumptions about us (that we are meat eaters, that we work in the meat industry..!!!) that you have based on absolutely nothing but the fact that we oppose your point of view. For all you know some of us ARE vegetarians. I can tell you that I personally only buy meat from SPCA approved local suppliers who practice ethical slaughter methods, the animals are raised to be happy until the day they die. I also only buy vegetarian packaged products for myself so that I will not support companies that practice unethical slaughter methods. How dare you make assumptions about me or about anyone else on here, even those that may not be aware or concerned about slaughter practices.

These people are ambassadors for the breeds that they own and promote fair and humane treatment of animals. You have no right to come on here and criticize us about our beliefs or advise us of our karma. THIS IS A DOG FORUM.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

kfccruelty said:


> and just a tid bit of information.....some dogs can do very well on a vegetarian diet while others may not. It all depends on many different things. There is alot of evidence that supports these claims that I do not have the time or desire to look up on the internet since this was never my original question to begin with...you people just read into what I was asking
> I was looking to hear from those that have fed their dog vegetarian dog food and what there experience was with it....if you have not than please do not bother me with this ridicuolousness......I did not ask for peoples opinions on the subject...
> 
> isn't that my business.



Ok. You come here with a handle straight out of the PETA handbook  and get annoyed when the posters here who have a great deal of knowledge regarding canine nutrrition advise you against vegetarian diets. I don't really care if a manufacturer is unscrupulous enough to make a Veg kibble for dogs and market it to their vegetarian owners. If you have an animal that requires meat as the staple of the diet, why would you consider completely going against common sense by feeding a dog a veggie diet? Even if you argue dogs are omnivores, which most of us here would probably agree with (omnivores that require the bulk of the diet to me meat) going w/ the veggie food IS going to lead to problems down the road. The only thing keeping a dog alive on those diets are the vitamin premix. Could you imagine feeding dogs rice & beans every day and adding in a vitamin pill to fill in the nutritional gaps? 

Don't get angry with anyone here and then get snappy and say you aren't a vegetarian and neither is the dog, etc. What else can be assumed by your OP? you're not going to find too many people here who have experience w/ vegetarian kibbles because DOGS AREN'T VEGETARIANS!!!!!!!!! I could also argue humans shouldn't be strictly veggie eaters, either, but that's another day, another forum, lol 

You can get good levels of protein in veggie diets, but what vegetarians often overlook are the indivigual amino acids that compose that protein. Dogs require the amino acids found only in meat, they can synthesize some in their bodies unlike cats, but providing them in the diet is profoundly more beneficial. They can survuve on it, unlike cats, but not maintain health. Soy may give the coat a nice shine but animal based fats are best for growing and maintaining coat. 

Since you feel killing chickens for food is cruel go ahead and feed your dogs a vegetarian diet and enough with trying to stir up the board. We're not going to change your mind, you're not going to change ours.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

> As an animal rights activist I fight animal cruelty. I do not promote it or do it.



No. NO. NOOOOOO. As an AR activist, you and your sort infringe on the rights of other people, LIE like rugs, con people out of their money, and use that income not to help dogs but to fund your quasi socialist agenda. The real issue with you ARs is control and manipulation. If you dispute any of this I would be more than happy to provide you with references as to where ARs harass innocent people involved in the animal field, manipulate the system, and believe animals should not even be owned by humans. 
Honestly. Don't drink the AR Kool Aid. Farmers, breeders, hunters - you have no idea how these people truly operate, you have no understanding of it. If you people ever got to know those involved in animal related industries instead of jumping to conclusions and making misrepresentations about them, maybe you woudl find a new understanding. It can be done! We can be rehabbed. Many here don't know this but I myself am a former recovered AR  Yup, I drank the Kool Aid ... but I spit it out, threw it up and am now a breeder of dual purpose Beagles that just love huntin' them thar bunnies and squirrls. lol. 



> Thats funny because I too have done a fair amount of research myself on the subject of vegetarianism for dogs and have found that the only ones that bash the vegetarian diet for both people and dogs has been the MEAT INDUSTRY !!



Pray tell. What has the meat industry shoved down our throats about feeding dogs a meat based diet? I betcha I can find scientific resources not related to meat marketers at all that promotes the dog as primarily a carnivorous animal. RFD, aren't I making you proud? ROFL! http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Ray+Coppinger+dogs+carnivores 





> I agree that it does not make sense to feed a cow chicken wings but than again how much sense does it make to feed a dog a cow or a pig. In nature they would only catch and eat things like mice and maybe birds.



Really? Because the wolf population does a number on sheep, goats, lamb, chickens, etc. never heard of a dog/wplf/coyote raiding a hen house? Or killing a farmer's sheep? They and coyotes help keep down the rabbit population. In nature, when dogs are allowed to become feral they both hunt and scavange. I don't know what dog you're thinking of that is agile, fast and quiet enough to successfully hunt mice and birds?! That's cat territory. I love dogs, but compared to cats, they're the brawn, not the brains! lol They go for larger prey items such as rabbit, chickens ... We used to have a european neighbor that raised his own chickens and his next door neighbors wire fox terriers WREAKED HAVOC on the chicken pen! When I had a mouse in the house ::shudder:: my dogs RAN AWAY from it, my brave fearless Beagles watched it from the couch and had a look of stupification on their faces as they watched the cat eat it whole  There is no way a 100+lb wolf or a 45lb feral dog could survive on a measley few mice a day.



> Just remember that DOGS AND CATS ARE NOT THE ONLY ANIMALS WITH FEELINGS!! FOOD ANIMALS HAVE JUST AS MUCH FEELINGS AS DOGS AND CATS DO!!and many are even smarter than your beloved dog!! although society may try to make you believe otherwise.



Oh, that makes me want to break out into that song ... "feeeelings..." 
Actually, you're wrong. I do think a chicken feels it when his head is cut off but that's just life. That doesn't mean the animal was treated cruelly - everything dies, it's part of the chain of life. The prey dies to feed the predator. I don't condone animal suffering or torture, but killing animals for our own survival and benefit is just part of life. Don't touth the American Heart Association to me! I eat my share of legumes, frutis and veggies, but as someone living with a relatively bad heart murmur the only things that bother me are excess salt & caffeine. If I do not eat meat, I suffer terribly from extreme exhaustion, mental and physical. I cannot function. That's my reason for eating meat. I LOVE it, and I actually feel better physically when the other foods are equalled out with meat consumption. Maybe you'd feel better too and wouldn't be so touchy if you ate a nice, rare steak ::drool:: 




> Stop being robots and doing what everyone else does just because that is all that you were taught to believe!!
> In closing, I recommed that you people read the book "Animal Liberation" and learn to include in your circle of compassion not just dogs and cats but all the furry friends that we live amongst.
> There is no nice way to say it MEAT IS MURDER and MEAT EATERS ARE MURDERERS!! Plan and simple.



The only robot here is you. I'm no conformist but my meat consumption is a personal choice, not because someone raised me to do it and I just can't think for myself @@ 
Meat is murder, huh? ROFLMAOPIMP!!!! You are funny. Thanks, I needed some comic relief today


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

Well, there's not really anything else to say here. I just hope some poor dog doesn't suffer malnutrition for a person's ideologies.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

kendallj said:


> my friend has a dog that was sick for the first two years of his life.. he was in and out of the vet hospital... and was REALLY sick! finally she was refered to a histologist that looked at the lining of his intestins (which is wear the issue was centered) and she did extensive tested and found that his symptoms were caused by inflamation that was caused by an allergy to protein... yes protein... she has tried taking him off just red meat... that did nothing... she took him off chicken and tried duck.. that made it worse... she tried fish... no change... she tried venisin... basically every meat that you can think of... she even tried homemade foods... NOTHING the only thing that worked was a prescription diet (ZD) which basically is a vegatarian diet... she is now mixing it with a vegetarian diet and other than he cant seem to gain weight he is doing well... he has been symptom free and inflamation free for almost a year!!! So there IS such a thing as a dog allergic to meat... and FYI... there IS such a thing as a cow having an allergy to grass.... its rare.. but it DOES happen....please check your facts before you make a difinitive comment... thanks


Poster above was right in that there isnt much to say on this thread anymore, but i did have one thing.

the pster i quoted was wrong. ZD is Not a veg diet. you can look up the ingrediants yourself and find that chicken is in there. That basically takes all the credibility of this post away.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

I'm sorry, kfccruelty, that you have felt the need to defend yourself here. You asked a question and could have received answers without some of the sarcasm/assumptions I saw here.

It appears from your post that you are Hindu and have strong beliefs. You are entitled to those beliefs and should be free from ridicule for those beliefs.

I am sorry that some here don't respect that.

I wish you and your dog health and happiness whatever your decision.


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## wolfsnaps (Apr 27, 2007)

Here I am kicking a dead post!  Anyways, while I am not a member of PETA, it is terrible how our food sources are treated. There should be an economical, humane way to slaughter animals for food consumption. 

I myself hunt for both fun and to stock the fridge. I am omnivore, hear me roar! Really, if your pet is a carnivore, it shouldn't even be an issue of whether or not to feed it meat. The answer is obvious. And how can a dog be allergic to meat/chicken/fish/etc.? They are meat eaters. I have heard that they can be allergic to one specific source...or two. Like, they might be allergic to fish or something. But how can they be allergic to ALL MEAT?


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

> It appears from your post that you are Hindu and have strong beliefs. You are entitled to those beliefs and should be free from ridicule for those beliefs.
> 
> I am sorry that some here don't respect that.




NO ONE, not one poster, came even remotely close to ridiculing KFCCruelty for her beliefs, despite the fact that those here who choose to eat meat were basically called murderers by this poster. In fact, KFC Cruelty was the one pushing her beliefs on this board, telling us that she believes karma is going to bite us in the butt b/c of our decisions to eat meat. I have studied Hinduism in college & albeit this was not an in depth course, I never once learned where that religion views eating meat & killing animals other than cows for food as a sin punishable by karma. KFCCruelty, by that posted, disrespected the members here of other religions, such as myself, who do not even believe there is such a force as karma. Had I said that the Judeo Christian religions do encourage eating most meats and slaughtering animals for food, I'd probably have been flamed until kingdom come. So not only did the OP disregard the info and be the first to get snippy about posters telling her dogs were not vegetarians, she also managed to insult or at the very least, trivialize other religious backgrounds on this forum.


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## Canadian Dog (Nov 3, 2007)

kfccruelty said:


> This will likely be my last post


Wow - I hope not. Look at Miss Chatty now spewing info and yet didn't want to give any initially. Obviously came to this board with the intent to educate us.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> This will likely be my last post and my last visit to this site. I just wanted to ask a simple question and instead I had to be berated because of my beliefs. You people are pathetic and too argumentative and ignorant for me to waste my time with!!You do not even deserve the time i have spent on this already.
> Rawfeddogs, do you by any chance work for the meat industry or are you somehow involved with the cruelty to animals industry??? I can see that you are just bent on picking a fight with me perhaps because you disagree with my beliefs that all animals deserve to be free from pain and suffering unless they are of course a dog since that is all you have been taught to believe all your life and you are too closed minded to question these set of beliefs and to think otherwise!!
> And since you are bashing vegetarianism and in effect animal rights I feel compelled to tell you how sorry that I feel for you. I , as an Indian, Hindu believe that you and anybody else who takes part in hurting others (in your case through eating meat and promoting it) is bringing on terrible karma to themselves. You will likely have to be reincarnated as the poor animals you have so callously killed for your own desires to eat their flesh!!And you are probably having alot of problems in your life or will wind up running into alot of problems as long as you continue to support violence and death through your meat eating ways. This is the way karma works on an individual level. Never mind what we will all have to suffer as a whole for what we have done and continue to do to animals for our own selfish desires.
> Meat eating is not necessary, in fact humans do better without it. Our teeth are not designed to eat animal flesh and the fact that we have to cook it in order to eat it or else we will get sick proves that we are not meant to eat animals, so since it is not neccesary it is nothing short of murder to do it.
> ...


Wow.... Just wow......

BTW..... It only took you two pages to get to the point you were trying to make..... Which was to spread your misguided propaganda.....

But I knew that with the first post.......

If you really have plans to feed your dog a vegetarian diet, I feel sorry for the dog.....

I actually feel sorry for you as well. Because whomever brainwashed you did a good job.... You not only buy into the spew.... You are angry about it......


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

kfccruelty said:


> MEAT EATERS ARE MURDERERS!! Plan and simple.


Heh...I guess that makes my dogs murderers. 



harrise said:


> Well, this was interesting. Now I'm hungry... Mmmmmmmmm, murder...


Mmm...Medium rare, please.

Best. Thread. Ever.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Harrise, I'm coming to your house for some of them murder patties...and I've been a vegetarian since I was eight!


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## Liberacion-Igualdad (Dec 26, 2008)

*Carnivores or omnivores?*

Hi people,

I just found this thread, and since I had always thought that dogs were omnivores (having lived with many of them in my childhood, and seeing that they had no problems in eating lots of cereals, legumes and other vegetables) I had to do a little research on google. Not that I dig too further, but I found this on wikipedia.

"There is some debate as to whether domestic dogs should be classified as omnivores or carnivores, by diet. The classification in the Order Carnivora does not necessarily mean that a dog's diet must be restricted to meat; unlike an obligate carnivore, such as the cat family with its shorter small intestine, a dog is neither dependent on meat-specific protein nor a very high level of protein in order to fulfill its basic dietary requirements. Dogs are able to healthily digest a variety of foods including vegetables and grains, and in fact dogs can consume a large proportion of these in their diet. Wild canines not only eat available plants to obtain essential amino acids, but also obtain nutrients from vegetable matter from the stomach and intestinal contents of their herbivorous prey, which they usually consume. Domestic dogs can survive healthily on a reasonable and carefully designed vegetarian diet, particularly if eggs and milk products are included. Some sources suggest that a dog fed on a strict vegetarian diet without L-carnitine may develop dilated cardiomyopathy,[80] however, L-carnitine is found in many nuts, seeds, beans, vegetables, fruits and whole grains. In the wild, dogs can survive on a vegetarian diet when animal prey is not available. Observation of extremely stressful conditions such as the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race, and scientific studies of similar conditions has shown that high-protein (approximately 40%) diets including meat help prevent damage to muscle tissue in dogs and some other mammals. This level of protein corresponds to the percentage of protein found in the wild dog's diet when prey is abundant; higher levels of protein seem to confer no added benefit."

I don't live with dogs now, but I know of other people that feed their dogs veg*an diets, and they do pretty well. I think that with cats the issue is much difficult, since they are obligate carnivores.

I hope this helps to anyone that wants to feed the dogs that live with them a veg*an diet, or just want to know whether they CAN actually live without eating other animals or animal products.

Regards,

Samuel.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

I have done a ton of research on this and found that dogs fed a vegetarian diet for any length of time will die. They do not receive proper nutrition. Sure, for the short term, anything will do. For an entire lifetime, though, dogs cannot survive on a vegetarian diet. They MUST be fed a protein source to ensure they get their proper nutrients. I don't think tofu works, either. 

Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all of every argument. This is a debate you see on all dog forums. From all I've read, researched, seen, heard, etc., I believe dogs REQUIRE meat on a fairly regular basis to be healthy.


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## nandeyane (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

XD Oh man. I got a good laugh out of this thread, thaaank you kfccruelty.
lmao.

secondchance handled it all very well, nice job D:
and RawFedDogs... you're my hero.


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## BTLA (Dec 2, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

Oh wow. This person has made vegetarians/vegans look bad. I'm a vegetarian (been one for 4 years) and NEVER would I EVER feed my dog a vegetarian diet. They're made to eat meat.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*



Liberacion-Igualdad said:


> Hi people,
> 
> I just found this thread, and since I had always thought that dogs were omnivores (having lived with many of them in my childhood, and seeing that they had no problems in eating lots of cereals, legumes and other vegetables) I had to do a little research on google. Not that I dig too further, but I found this on wikipedia.


Dogs are obligate carnivores. That means they _can_ eat non-meat things, but that doesn't give half as much nutrition to them as meat. Meat should always be a primary ingredient in any dog meal.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

A wolf cannot properly digest and live off of plants. A dog is closely related to a wolf and should not be fed a vegetarian diet. Anyone who loves animals wouldn't try to do that.

I, for one, am mostly vegetarian (I refrain from eating most types of meat), and yet I plan to be feeding my dog raw.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

argh! i thought that this thread was dead long ago...


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

I plan on going vegetarian again once I get back on my feet financially, but my dogs will continue to eat meat, since dogs have evolved eating at least a mostly meat diet for thousands of years. It might be considered "murder" for a human to kill another living thing, but for a carnivore, it's just called "nature."

So as for vegetarian diets for dogs, I consider them only to be necessary if the dog has some sort of unnatural digestive intolerance for meat. If it's only being fed to a dog just so a human can feel better about some AR agenda that the dog doesn't care about, it's wrong IMO.

There is actually an article on this very subject at the Dog Food Project website, here:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=vegetarian_vegan
I think anyone who may be planning on switching their dog to a vegetarian/vegan diet should read it, as the creator and owner of that website is a certified nutritionist, and dog nutrition is her specialty.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

wow, you're right, I just realized how long ago the OP posted... I just had to say something because I only received a question regarding vegetarian dog foods only last week... which got me kind of peeved. sorry 'bout that!


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

*Re: Carnivores or omnivores?*

oh! i don't mean that! i just meant that this thread made me so angry (and i am sure that i was not the only one!) that i didn't want the silliness to start up again  i think that the person who originally posted had some other intentions in mind... i am sure that it won't go that way again.


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## Adelyn (Dec 27, 2008)

kfccruelty said:


> I am wondering if anybody on here has fed their dog and vegetarian dog food and if so what brand it was, if it was canned or dry and whether or not your dog liked it.
> Thankyou in advance for your help. I look forward to hearing anybody's replies on this.


kfc - I have to agree with you - you asked a question and these people jumped down your throat like you were a bad person! Maybe you are doing research for an article, whatever it is, you asked a simple question. 

Now, please allow me to educate the posters here who said dogs are carnivores. - (ding) WRONG! Dogs more closely resemble the coyotes which are omnivores. Coyotes adapt to what is available to them. That is why you find a lot of coyote dens in fields by or on veggie farms. If they can't find or hunt meat, they will adapt and eat grains and veggies.

Dog DO NOT need meat to live (making them omnivores) however, Cats do need meat! Cats are true carnivores and WILL die if they don't eat meat. 

One of the oldest living dogs was.....YOU GUESSED IT - A VEGAN!
Check out the article here: http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0209/articles/020918a.htm

I have never fed a vegan diet to a dog and I've never really looked into it. I have some strict vegan friends that have 4 dogs and I'm guessing the dogs don't get meat either. I never really asked but I know she won't even eat out in restaurants for fear they might use cooking utensils that touched meat, then her food so I'm guessing she won't have any kind of meat in her house even if it is in a bag. I'll be seeing her next weekend, I'll have to ask.


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## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

Wow, that link of the 28 year old dog was really interesting!


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## Adelyn (Dec 27, 2008)

Just to be clear here before y'all jump down my throat. I am NOT a tree hugging animal rights PETA freak! I have no problem eating a nice thick slab of Prime Rib! Or aplump and juicy chicken! And as some of you may have read on another post - I have no problem killing snakes! 

Just because I feed my dogs meat and you feed your dogsmeat doesn't mean everyone must! Obviosuly dogs can survive and even thrive on a vegan diet (hence one of the oldest living dogs is a vegan) Cat's on the other hand NEED MEAT! - no way around it! 

You have to ask why hasn't the life expectancy of dogs increased at the same rate as humans? It's not even close! I asked myself that many times and that's why my dogs haven't had dog food in several years.


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## 709Juggalette (Feb 21, 2008)

I didn't read everything in this thread yet.I don't have much time.I did read alot of it though.

First off I am a vegetarian and have been for 6+ yrs and am quite healthy.BUT....I would NEVER dream of feeding a carnivorous animal a vegetarian diet.I have rats,a cat and I foster dogs...all which require meat.I have no problem with it either.My 4 yr old daughter also eats some meat.

Not all vegetarians are crazy and think the way this person is.I just wanna throw that out there!  I have no problem with people who eat meat.And I am very much against vegetarian diets for cats and dogs.

I didn't hear anything good come of people who fed their cats/dogs veggie diets.The animals were malnorished and sick.Humans can survive without eating meat,as we are omnivores...dogs and cats NEED meat! They are carnivores.

Not to make assumptions...but the OP seems kind of like one of those PETA freaks!


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## GeorgeGlass (Jun 5, 2008)

Anyone else craving some chicken? Original recipe, here I come....


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## Nallah06 (Nov 26, 2008)

Adelyn said:


> Now, please allow me to educate the posters here who said dogs are carnivores. - (ding) WRONG! Dogs more closely resemble the coyotes which are omnivores. Coyotes adapt to what is available to them. That is why you find a lot of coyote dens in fields by or on veggie farms. If they can't find or hunt meat, they will adapt and eat grains and veggies.
> 
> Dog DO NOT need meat to live (making them omnivores) however, Cats do need meat! Cats are true carnivores and WILL die if they don't eat meat.
> 
> ...


Adelyn-

May I ask where you got your information about dogs being Omnivores and more closely related to coyotes than wolves? Just curious. 

Dogs are NATURAL CARNIVORES. They were put into the food chain to eat meat. The definenition of a Carnivore is this:

_Any of various generally meat-eating mammals of the order Carnivora. Carnivores have large, sharp canine teeth and large brains, and the musculoskeletal structure of their forelimbs permits great flexibility for springing at prey. Many carnivores remain in and defend a single territory. Dogs, cats, bears, weasels, raccoons, hyenas, and (according to some classifications) seals and walruses are all carnivores_






Check this out: 

_Dogs are so much like wolves physiologically that they are frequently used in wolf studies as a physiological model for wolf body processes
(Mech, L.D. 2003. Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation). 
Additionally, dogs and wolves share 99.8% of their mitochondrial DNA (
Wayne, R.K. Molecular Evolution of the Dog Family). br>This next quote is from Robert K. Wayne, Ph.D., and his discussion on canine genetics (taken from www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html). "The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mDNA sequence..." 

Dogs have recently been reclassified as Canis lupus familiaris by the Smithsonian Institute (Wayne, R.K. "What is a Wolfdog?"(www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html), placing it in the same species as the gray wolf, Canis lupus. The dog is, by all scientific standards and by evolutionary history, a domesticated wolf
(Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 472.). _

I got this from: http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

They are NOT Obligate Carnivores like the cat. I will agree with you on that. They can survive on plant matter. Again, Can is the key word. 

Being that they are a member of the Carnivora family, meat should be in their diet. Plain & Simple. There's a reason Nature made it that way.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

I take offense to that "tree-hugger" comment!


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

For every study that concludes that dogs are obligate or any other type of carnivore, there are those studies that dispute it. 

This issue has gone around way too many times on the forum. Do a search for the past threads. This one has gone far enough.


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