# Is vegetarian dog food suitable for a lab?



## Cytosol (Jan 19, 2010)

I have a 3-year old yellow lab who I believe has a meat intolerance. I have tried him on dozens of different brands over the years, including virtually every different type of meat under the sun including fish. He gets very runny stools, sometimes vomits and gets pretty sick.

The only food he is able to tolerate is a vet food made for sensitive stomachs, which is chicken-based. I believe this food has some sort of beneficial bacteria or something in it that makes it easily digestible, but I really have no idea. This is the food he's on:

http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/...rmulas/Gastro-Intestinal-Moderate-Calorie-Dry

Needless to say, it is EXTREMELY expensive and I am having a hard time affording this brand of food. I just bought a bag and the price has gone up another 20%, so I am spending almost $200 per month on this stuff. Looking at the ingredients, it isn’t anything special either. I have no idea why it works so well and he is not able to tolerate any other high quality foods.

Anyway, I have seen there are some vegetarian foods like this one:

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/Vegetarian.html


Would this type of food be suitable for an active lab? Would I need to supplement anything else in his diet, or would this be good enough on its own? I haven’t tried it yet, and there could be a chance he won’t tolerate it either, but I am guessing his problem is meat intolerance because he has the worst reactions to rich foods like orijen and acana. 

Thanks!


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Have you ever tried him on raw? I don't believe dogs should be fed a vegetarian diet. Have you had an allergy panel run? I would bet he could tolerate duck or buffalo. My guess is its sonething other than meat causing his reaction.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

I would second the raw. Even if he's had issues with a meat source in kibble, he may be ok with it if it's raw. If he's doing well with a chicken based dog food, even better, chicken's easy enough to find. 

I would start on three different meats only, starting with one then adding another a week or so later and so on. No supplements at first either, just one thing at a time and see how he does. After a month start adding one supplement at a time, or a different meat.

My old girl didn't tolerate chicken based dog food, but could have raw chicken without exploding.


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## roxiefoxie08 (Dec 15, 2011)

i would try a limited diet kibble


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## Pekinchick (Jun 11, 2012)

Dogs need meat, so you can try raw or kibbles that are low in protein. Both acana and Orijen are one of the foods with a very high protein content which some dogs just can't process. Try chicken and rice or potatoe only kibbles from Natural Balance, the less ingredients there are, the better it will be for your dog.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

lots of dogs dont do well on orijen, its not uncommon. there is probably no shot your dog has a "meat intollerance". he is most likely reacting to something else in the food, OR you may not be transitioning foods properly/giving him enough time to adjust to the new food. and IMO, no, i would never feed a veg. diet.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Natures variety makes a prairie kibble & also a chicken grain free, duck/turkey grain free & also a few limited ingredient diets. www.naturesvariety.com I think is their site they are still pricy but not as much as RC which is horridly overpriced for what it is (a mid-tier dog food) I also would stay away from natural balance, their products are made at the diamond plant which has tons of probs with salmonella contamination. Also NB foods are filled with potatoe fillers (i think their food's ingredient lists have a named meat product but then have a bunch of potatoe stuff after it, if it doesn't say 'meal' after thr meat name (I.e. chicken MEAL) then it's fresh meat which is weighed BEFORE the water is cooked out making the potato stuff the first three ingredients. Some dogs have probs with potatoes I would try NV prairie (they have a few flavors including a chicken one ) if they doesn't work you could also go raw, or go with cooking for your dog.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

I agree with everyone else. Dogs should have meat, its just what their bodies need. Whereas a veg. diet may be okay for humans, it isn't okay for dogs and I think it is very unlikely that your dog has meat allergies/intolerance. 
I would try raw or a limited ingredient dog food.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Largely unrelated, but Dalmatians come to mind on the vegetarian diet front. If he has been doing well on a chicken based food, it's unlikely it's meat in general.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I have a relative that feeds their dog Beneful Healthy Harvest because she believed one of them had a meat intolerance. I don't know what made her think that, but whatever issues her dog was having with meat I'm sure couldn't have been as bad as the issues *caused* by the vegetarian food. All 3 dogs have terrible dark tear stains and dry, flaky, itchy skin. Their coats are dull. They are a mess. After being around them I have to say I am not at all a proponent of feeding dogs vegetarian. 

Here's one of their dogs. You can see the stains on her eyes and feet and even a small sore spot on her back knee where she'd been itching.









IMO, it is highly unlikely that your dog has issues with ALL types of meat. It could be just cooked meat. It could be just certain types of cooked meat. It good be something else entirely. IMO, eliminating all meat from your carnivorous pet's diet would be a hasty and poor choice with the amount of information you have currently. Have you tried any other chicken-based foods? Have you thought about a raw diet? Have you had any allergy tests done?


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Blech I hate going to Walmart & seeing ppl buying that crap, one lady was in front of us at checkout talking with the clerk about how she feeds beneful bc she wants 'only the best' for her dogs *facepalm* it takes a lot of restraint not to say anything.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

What foods has he been on that cause diarrhea?

I would suggest raw as well. I've met many digs that simply can't have carbs in their diet, you cut out the carbs, and their daily diarrhea went away. I doubt your dog is allergic to every food out there.

I would try raw or possibly another LID kibble (Natures Variety Instinct LID would be my choice) and a digestive enzyme and probiotic combo


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

OP, I feel your frustration. I adopted an allergy prone dog - a westiepoo. Westies are notorious for skin allergies. So far I've found that she seems to be sensitive to potato, rice, barley, lamb, chicken, and God knows what else. Right now, I have her eating Innova Prime, which uses legumes rather than potatoes. She's still itchy, but better than before. Her stomach is cast iron, but her feet are constantly itchy. Currently, the vet has her on a steroid, which is doing nothing... We're also thinking it may be environmental, in addition to food. Sigh... I'm considering trying RAW - perhaps Instinct pre made. Since Maddie's a small dog, it would be so expensive compared to your lab. For some reason, some dogs can eat a protein source in raw form, but can't tolerate the kibble form - the processing/chemicals may be to blame, I guess.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

I would try raw or freeze dried/ dehydrated raw. Some people just are not comfortable feeding raw and it is completely understandable. I am one of those people. I have cats running around and My brother lives with us - I do not want to chance Salmonella. However, if you don't have little ones it may be right for you. If not, freeze dried food may be good. We switched Delilah and Cato (My Siberian Huskies) over to Grandma Lucy's Pureformance and it's gotten rid of Delilahs allergies entirely. There is no grain and we alternate between flavors. Their favorite is either the rabbit or chicken and they eat it incredibly fast. No hacking, no itching, no rubbing their eyes and no licking their paws. When we switched, we saw a little increase in BM, but now it is regulated. For a dog that has sensitivities I would try a grain free freeze dried option. Grandma Lucy's has a line of Grain Free Artisan pet foods, I would get a 10 lb. bag of either the venison, bison or lamb. Neither of these are consistently used foods, and should be rather hypoallergenic for a sensitive dog. Don't be confused by sticker shock. You can get 55lbs prepared from a 10lb bag of the freeze dried. Which evens it out to about 1.25/lb for the rabbit formula - the royal canin is 70 for a 28lb bag, which is 2.50/lb - DOUBLE, what you would pay for a much better food. 

Just my two cents.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

georgiapeach said:


> OP, I feel your frustration. I adopted an allergy prone dog - a westiepoo. Westies are notorious for skin allergies. So far I've found that she seems to be sensitive to potato, rice, barley, lamb, chicken, and God knows what else. Right now, I have her eating Innova Prime, which uses legumes rather than potatoes. She's still itchy, but better than before. Her stomach is cast iron, but her feet are constantly itchy. Currently, the vet has her on a steroid, which is doing nothing... We're also thinking it may be environmental, in addition to food. Sigh... I'm considering trying RAW - perhaps Instinct pre made. Since Maddie's a small dog, it would be so expensive compared to your lab. For some reason, some dogs can eat a protein source in raw form, but can't tolerate the kibble form - the processing/chemicals may be to blame, I guess.



What does your vet have you on? I just want you to check this forum out, not the same breed, but I would be wary of long time steroid use. http://www.itsahuskything.com/t3626-auto-immune-or-allergies#83860


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Mheath0429 said:


> I would try raw or freeze dried/ dehydrated raw. Some people just are not comfortable feeding raw and it is completely understandable. I am one of those people. I have cats running around and My brother lives with us - I do not want to chance Salmonella. However, if you don't have little ones it may be right for you. If not, freeze dried food may be good. We switched Delilah and Cato (My Siberian Huskies) over to Grandma Lucy's Pureformance and it's gotten rid of Delilahs allergies entirely. There is no grain and we alternate between flavors. Their favorite is either the rabbit or chicken and they eat it incredibly fast. No hacking, no itching, no rubbing their eyes and no licking their paws. When we switched, we saw a little increase in BM, but now it is regulated. For a dog that has sensitivities I would try a grain free freeze dried option. Grandma Lucy's has a line of Grain Free Artisan pet foods, I would get a 10 lb. bag of either the venison, bison or lamb. Neither of these are consistently used foods, and should be rather hypoallergenic for a sensitive dog. Don't be confused by sticker shock. You can get 55lbs prepared from a 10lb bag of the freeze dried. Which evens it out to about 1.25/lb for the rabbit formula - the royal canin is 70 for a 28lb bag, which is 2.50/lb - DOUBLE, what you would pay for a much better food.
> 
> Just my two cents.




The huge recent Diamond recall was related to salmonella in kibble...

People prepare chicken and meats for themselves...salmonella isn't really a big concern in raw feeding lol.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

It isn't a concern for the dogs, but if you have children and they pick it up it is a concern in humans. Yes, people prepare meet for themselves, but it is cooked.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It isn't cooked before they prepare it . Seriously, just use the same common-sense precautions you use with your own meat. . .the dogs will just eat it instead of cooking it .


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

But it's starts out raw...so why no concern over having raw meat for the humans?


You put it down, the dogs eat it, and it's gone. And a child shouldn't be bothering a dog while they eat, really no chance fir them to just handle raw meat.

And again, many people have gotten sick from salmonella in kibble, so the argument that raw is risky because of salmonella, isn't really a calid one. You'd have to be doing a lot of things wrong or trying very hard to get salmonella just from feeding a raw diet. People shouldn't be scared off from a claim that isn't particularly valid


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

IF the dog eats raw on the floor and it is contaminated with Salmonella and the pet parent misses one spot, it could end up on a crawling babies hand or foot. It's a preference. I didn't hate on raw in any way, I just listed a precaution, because dogs do eat on the floor and children spend a lot of time there too. 

Raw is a great choice, but it's not for everyone.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

_But kibble has salmonella too_. If you miss cleaning one spot where kibble has fallen on the floor, it could end up on a crawling baby's hand or foot. Really, don't feed raw if you don't want to, but don't be naïve about the safety of kibble either.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Mheath0429 said:


> IF the dog eats raw on the floor and it is contaminated with Salmonella and the pet parent misses one spot, it could end up on a crawling babies hand or foot. It's a preference. I didn't hate on raw in any way, I just listed a precaution, because dogs do eat on the floor and children spend a lot of time there too.
> 
> Raw is a great choice, but it's not for everyone.


Easy fix. Put a towel under a bowl and feed the dog in the bowl then throw the towel in the wash. If you want to give bones and such to gnaw on do it outside or teach the dog to stay on the towel.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm certainly not naive, and I didn't even say I fed kibble. BTW, not all kibble has salmonella. Yes, there was a recall with Diamond, but a majority of those bags came back free of Salmonella and it was precautionary. I never said there wasn't a Salmonella issue with some kibble, but I certainly don't feed them and I never stated I did.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

I also never even suggested the OP feed kibble.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

LOTS of kibble has salmonella. Diamond just got caught . If you tested all kibble you would find it in a very large percentage. It's best to assume all kibble is infected and take proper precautions.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Once again, i didn't suggest kibble. So obviously, if you read my original post you would notice that I never said I feed kibble either.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

So much bickering tonight, sigh.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

dogdragoness said:


> Blech I hate going to Walmart & seeing ppl buying that crap, one lady was in front of us at checkout talking with the clerk about how she feeds beneful bc she wants 'only the best' for her dogs *facepalm* it takes a lot of restraint not to say anything.


Try working there...


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

dogdragoness said:


> Blech I hate going to Walmart & seeing ppl buying that crap, one lady was in front of us at checkout talking with the clerk about how she feeds beneful bc she wants 'only the best' for her dogs *facepalm* it takes a lot of restraint not to say anything.


i hate seeing it too. on the flipside though, sometimes, if you approach them correctly, theyre open to hearing what youre saying. i have had some success with it, thats for sure. some people on the other hand, theres just no telling them anything.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> I also would stay away from natural balance, their products are made at the diamond plant which has tons of probs with salmonella contamination. .


one recall doesn't equal "tons of probs" And a lot of other foods have been recalled - for worse reasons. Salmonella is always a possibility when working with raw meat products.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

If you can do raw, either pre made or "real" raw, it may work great. I've been told that a dog may not do well on (fill in the meat) in kibble but can eat it raw. Might be worth a shot.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

I also am just curious if perhaps you were overfeeding the protein - rich kibbles, dogs need significantly less of these brands compared to others, and if overfed it could certainly cause digestive upset. You may want to anaylize other ingredients in these foods as well that aren't aparent in the Royal Canin. Some dogs can't tolerate the fillers such as potatoes, etc. 

However, I do agree with trying raw as well. 

As far as the whole salmonella thing, well its just as easy to drop a chicken or peice of raw meat you prepare for yourself on the floor, and miss a spot when disinfecting.. so its not different really with dogs eating raw food, and their is simple solution to this, feed it outside, or on a towel or in a crate and thoroughly clean the crate afterward.

I plan to have children in the next few years, and my dogs will continue to eat a raw diet when that happens, and I will also continue to prepare raw meats for human consumption in the kitchen where any raw meat or juice can accidentally fall on the floor..You just need to be careful, don't feed the dogs directly on the floor.. feed them elsewhere or train them to eat on a towl or in the crate which is easy to clean up after.

I would be more concerned about a dog going to lick a child on the face after its eaten a raw meal.. and the solution to that is don't allow the dogs near the children for a while after they've eaten. Feed once a day as opposed to twice a day so that this becomes an easier schedule..


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

Mheath0429 said:


> IF the dog eats raw on the floor and it is contaminated with Salmonella and the pet parent misses one spot, it could end up on a crawling babies hand or foot. It's a preference. I didn't hate on raw in any way, I just listed a precaution, because dogs do eat on the floor and children spend a lot of time there too.
> 
> Raw is a great choice, but it's not for everyone.


My raw fed dog is trained to stay on her eating mat while she's eating. She's not allowed to carry her food around the house. She's really too interested in eating it to be bothered carrying it around. I can understand your concern but there are many ways to feed raw and keep young ones safe. As a few others have said, children shouldn't be around an eating dog anyway.


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## turtlesocks (May 18, 2012)

Salmonella is something you just have to kind of plan for as a consumer of both "whole" and/or processed food . There have been salmonella recalls on lettuce, after all, and recently on fresh Jalapenos! 

I am by no means a clean freak, though I wash my hands after feeding the dogs, and we feed one of the brands on the salmonella recall with no problems. We also fed raw for a short period last year, with no issues, though I did make the dog eat on the (covered) front porch. Also, as a very basic precaution with the kibble, I did stop letting my kid help scoop food into the bowls.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Is this is obvious, I don't mean to be insulting - Have you looked at the ingredients of Royal Canin, then tried to find a less expensive brand
(Chicken Soup for Pet Lover's; The Taste of Wild; etc.) 

Also, have you tried hard boiled eggs?

BTW, with vegan dogs, I believe that hair and skin problems may be related to a lack of healthy fats. Adequate quantities of fats have to be specifically included Flax, Borage, Lecithin, etc. I think if the dog food includes much more fat, it'll help the dogs mentioned....


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## skysky (Dec 18, 2011)

If your dog is having ongoing intestinal problems from different brands of dog food there's an underlying problem that needs veterinary attention. Allergic reactions are different than intolerance.

I have a cat who has this problem. The vet gave her a steroid injection which cleared it right up. We now give her very low dose prednisolone every 3-4 days and she's fine. When the pred wears off she gets horrible, foul-smelling diarrhea and her coat looks really bad. We don't know what the problem is but even if we did, the treatment would probably be the same.

What ever the problem, don't feed your dog any brands that contain meat-or chicken-by-products. These are the pet equivalent of pink slime. Also avoid corn and grain fillers which have no nutritional value and are hard to digest. My aussie has a rare auto immune disease so the vet prescribed a diet of Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Venison & Potato dry food supplemented with 400iu Vit E and 3000iu fish oil daily. I give the same to my older dog and both are doing well on this diet.

I would be interested in hearing if you find out what your dog's problem is.
Good luck.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Steroids don't "clear up" anything. They just mask the symptoms. And long-term use is dangerous. If a pet has a food intolerance, it's much better to address the underlying cause rather than "clear up" the symptoms with steroids (note: someone I know on the cat forum cured her cat's IBD with a raw diet. Worth looking into).


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## XansArt (Mar 10, 2011)

As to the original question of vegetarian food, there is quite a bit of good hard evidence that dogs can thrive on a vegetarian diet (I think the current record holder for longest living dog is a vegetarian). I did a lot of homework on this for my own dogs. I have greyhounds, and fed them all a combination of home-made and Natural Balance Vegetarian kibble (which is vegan right down to the supplemental vitamins). Avoiding corn, soy, and wheat is a good way to extend your dogs' lives and support their best health. Unfortunately, a lot of the vegan kibbles rely heavily on all three of these. NB does not have any of them.

Home prepping the food was not as hard as you might think, even though it did mean adding various supplements. I could make several days' worth of food at once, and freeze it, even for my 3 large active dogs. The kibble made it easier when time was tight, but it is spendy, especially if you have to buy it online. 

It worked great for my dogs, and they all gobbled everything up happily. Poops were bigger, which makes sense, as it's a bulkier diet, but no Big D, LESS gas, skin and fur were great, etc.. Healthy, happy dogs.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am no longer feeding that way because I'm lazy and poorer now. If I keep talking like this, I may just guilt myself back into home cooking! :redface:

Good luck with your lab!


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

hanksimon said:


> BTW, with vegan dogs, I believe that hair and skin problems may be related to a lack of healthy fats. Adequate quantities of fats have to be specifically included Flax, Borage, Lecithin, etc. I think if the dog food includes much more fat, it'll help the dogs mentioned....


I definitely agree that more fat in the diet would help the "vegetarian" dogs I know. Sydney's never eaten vegetarian but she still does WAY better on foods that are high in fat like Earthborn PN and ToTW, compared to something like Whole Earth Farms which is a decent food but low in fat. I think their tear stains are probably at least related to the large amount of dye in their food as well. But anyway, try telling their owner that. She thinks she's doing the best she can for them and it's difficult to convince a person otherwise even with hard evidence. Not to mention that every vegetarian kibble I've ever seen was exceptionally low in protein and fat...


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## XansArt (Mar 10, 2011)

Fats are important in any diet, for sure. Be careful to do your homework here, too. Too much fat will not only make your dog fat (and skin and fur greasy), but may also cause pancreatitis.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Not arguing, but I think the diseased-looking dogs in the pictures were pure vegetarian (Vegan)... The term vegetarian usually implies potential inclusion of products such as eggs, milk... not sure if it includes animal oils ... that was my only reason for the distinction. Vegan peopole have to be more diligent about B-12 and amino acids.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

hanksimon said:


> Not arguing, but I think the diseased-looking dogs in the pictures were pure vegetarian (Vegan)... The term vegetarian usually implies potential inclusion of products such as eggs, milk... not sure if it includes animal oils ... that was my only reason for the distinction. Vegan peopole have to be more diligent about B-12 and amino acids.


I'm not sure who you were addressing here (I'm also not arguing.  ) but the maltese I posted does get marginal amounts of animal products. The main treats she gets are yogurt drops and also things like Milk Bones that contain some animal products. Her owner isn't that diligent about it (she isn't vegetarian herself), but she does eat a vegetarian staple diet and it's obviously not working for her.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I think I was addressing you, I was too lazy to page back  That Maltese looks abused-level bad, but I imagine the owner means well. ... I'd assumed vegan...

I don't do it, but I like the old idea of adding a raw egg to the dog food... I haven't heard of examples where it, in fact, caused harm.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Yep, it makes me cringe to think that our family lab ate the same line of food for years. He probably wasn't in much better condition but his size and coat type/color made it less obvious. And why wouldn't your average loving family buy this for their dog? Look at all the healthy-looking ingredients (from a human standpoint) revolving around that happy, healthy dog? It's criminal. We'd have been better off feeding dog chow.










I'd recommend eggs, but they are vehemently opposed to giving dogs "people food." Sydney gets an egg with shell for dinner about once a week and she loves it.

EDIT: Woah, sorry for the enormous image. Not sure how to resize it, though. :/


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Healthy Harvest isn't even vegetarian--just meatless. It has animal sourced ingredients; an actual vegan wouldn't feed it to their dog. I bet they could sell more if they took those out and advertised it as vegetarian! 

Ugh.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

I have to kinda chuckle here, my hubby's childhood dog (samoyed mix) whom passed away about 2 years ago now, lived until 19 years old, and she ate Beneful and other terrible quality food her whole life, but his family was extremely poor growing up and could barely afford to feed themselves let alone the dog. Although she lived a long life, from the few years I knew her they were not healthy ones. This dog cost my hubby a lot of money in vet bills the last few years of her life, because his Mom, whom she was left with when he moved out, could not afford it. My hubby eventually had to make the decision to just put her down because of the frequent need to see a vet, and constant health issues, and all the money spent on treatments, etc. 

Haha sorry I know this was kinda off topic but seeing the Beneful bag reminded me of that since that is what she was fed, and it took a toll on her, and the wallet. 

Now on the contrary, I know a Shiba Inu whom just passed away at 18.5 years old, raw and kibble fed throughout her life, and mostly raw fed in her older years, and she had no chronic health issues up until her death, she had just started going partially blind, and couldn't hear very well.. but she still had plenty of energy for her age. Couple days before her passing she started having frequent accidents in the house, but still ate all her food, enjoyed spending time outside trotting around, and one afternoon she decided to have a nap in the shade and never woke up....

Point of my story is I guess that sure you can feed dogs poorer quallity foods and they can still live a long and somewhat 'healthy' life, but I think they are more likely to have tons of health problems in the older years and incur lots of vet bills...and suffer a bit more than those who have eaten better throughout their life. 

Now on the topic of vegan dog vs meat or meat-based fed dog... Dont have any personal experience with this one nor do I know anyone who's fed a dog a vegan diet its whole life to know, but it just sure doesn't sound natural or all that healthy for a carnivore


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Willowy said:


> Healthy Harvest isn't even vegetarian--just meatless. It has animal sourced ingredients; an actual vegan wouldn't feed it to their dog. I bet they could sell more if they took those out and advertised it as vegetarian!
> 
> Ugh.


Well, she claims her one dog is allergic to meat and that is why she feeds it. I have no clue why she thinks that. I just looked up the ingredients and all I see is "animal fat." It's interesting that there isn't any meat shown on the bag. The other formulas are raining bits of beef and chicken. lol



PackMomma said:


> I have to kinda chuckle here, my hubby's childhood dog (samoyed mix) whom passed away about 2 years ago now, lived until 19 years old, and she ate Beneful and other terrible quality food her whole life, but his family was extremely poor growing up and could barely afford to feed themselves let alone the dog. Although she lived a long life, from the few years I knew her they were not healthy ones. This dog cost my hubby a lot of money in vet bills the last few years of her life, because his Mom, whom she was left with when he moved out, could not afford it. My hubby eventually had to make the decision to just put her down because of the frequent need to see a vet, and constant health issues, and all the money spent on treatments, etc.
> 
> Haha sorry I know this was kinda off topic but seeing the Beneful bag reminded me of that since that is what she was fed, and it took a toll on her, and the wallet.
> 
> ...


That basically describes our lab's story. He didn't ever appear to be suffering much but in his old age he was just ridden with medical issues. He had a cancerous cyst removed from his head at around 8 years old. His nose was dry and cracked. Around 10 he started having major issues with not eating and that ended up being related to very bad dental issues. I'm not sure of everything he had going on at the end because I was no longer living at home, but he was put to sleep due to overwhelming expensive medical problems which appeared to be directly related to diet.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

kafkabeetle said:


> Well, she claims her one dog is allergic to meat and that is why she feeds it. I have no clue why she thinks that. I just looked up the ingredients and all I see is "animal fat." It's interesting that there isn't any meat shown on the bag. The other formulas are raining bits of beef and chicken. lol
> 
> 
> 
> That basically describes our lab's story. He didn't ever appear to be suffering much but in his old age he was just ridden with medical issues. He had a cancerous cyst removed from his head at around 8 years old. His nose was dry and cracked. Around 10 he started having major issues with not eating and that ended up being related to very bad dental issues. I'm not sure of everything he had going on at the end because I was no longer living at home, but he was put to sleep due to overwhelming expensive medical problems which appeared to be directly related to diet.


I am very much a strong believer, and passionate about the saying "you are what you eat". Of course dogs can have huge medical bills caused by accidents, unforseen events, or genetic issues, but I strongly, strongly believe the MAJORITY of dogs health issues or complications later in life are related to diet - and frequently just 'blamed' on genetics, or old age. Apparently, something simple as neutering a dog too early in life, can cause a wide variety of joint and health issues, leading to very extensive operations and vet bills.. this isn't related to diet of course, but it just kinda goes to show that when dogs don't eat or live as naturally as possible...well it can certainly cause problems. However, if ones dog did incur some joint issues and complications, and the dog was neutered way too early, or wasn't fed properly - My guess would be it would first be assumed or blamed on genetics, or something, not its diet or lifestyle.


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## Galathiel (Apr 11, 2012)

I had a German Shepherd with chronic diarrhea. Couldn't keep weight on him as well. The vet didn't seem overly concerned about his condition, but I was. It took a few years and some frustrated researching on the internet for me to discover the possibility that he might actually have had EPI - exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. If you look at this site, those emaciated looking dogs look just like mine did. I didn't know that German Shepherds make up 40-45 percent of the dogs that can get EPI. 

http://www.epi4dogs.com/

Hopefully yours is just an allergy or intolerance!


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## hillgrass (Nov 27, 2011)

Both my dogs have been on Natural Balance Vegetarian dry kibble for about five years now. I was desperately experimenting with various foods because my pitbull was stinking up the house with his sensitive stomach. Let's just say he could really let 'em rip. I think that I tried every food under the sun so that I wouldn't wake up in the middle of the night gasping for breath. This particular recipe seemed to do the trick and firmed up his stools in the process. He's a powerfully built dog with explosive energy during playtime and always coasts through his annual check ups with flying colors. My other dog is a blue heeler mix between the age of 13 and 14. She's a bit of an old geezer, but she's still playful, likes to antagonize the other dogs in the neighborhood, and is still antsy for 3 long walks a day off lead. I am not saying that this brand will work for all dogs, but it seems to work quite well for mine. During the transition from their old food, they hardly seemed to notice--diving right in. They sell it at Petco alongside all the other Natural Balance foods.


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