# Acana Singles Formula Change



## bowie (Apr 26, 2010)

Seems like they added a TON of legumes. Both original formulas were changed, and they've also added a pork option.

Example, Duck & Bartlett Pear:

*Old formulation:*
Duck meal, deboned duck, steel-cut oats, peas, whole pears, whole potato, duck fat, duck liver, sun-cured alfalfa, oat flakes, algae meal (source of DHA, EPA), pea fiber, whole apples, sweet potato, pumpkin, butternut squash, parsnips, carrots, spinach, cranberries, blueberries, kelp, minerals, vitamins, chicory root, juniper berries, angelica root, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, lavender, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product

*New:*
Duck meal, deboned duck*, green lentils, red lentils, duck liver*, pears*, duck fat, green peas, yellow peas, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin*, carrots*, freeze-dried
duck liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

The GA is slightly different, the old was 25/17, new is 27/15, and now there are less kcals per cup, 430 vs 403. 

They're also highlighting how there is only one synthetic supplement in the form of zinc proteinate. I actually like that change, but I can't get behind the addition of all the lentils and peas. Too bad, since my dog liked it quite a bit.

Thoughts? I'm pretty irritated by this and it will no longer be in my rotation.


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

They did this to the regional lines a couple years ago. My dogs turned into itch balls with much larger/frequent poop. I was NOT happy.

Generally, food companies come out with "new" formulas and leave old favorites alone. This is so disappointing to see them follow the trendy direction. I hate it.
Won't be feeding or recommending any of the champion foods.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I dunno. I kinda like the look of the new formula better. Yes, they add lentils but without the oats and potatoes it probably comes out to be less plant matter, or about the same. I've heard that any ingredient listed after the fat is not significant, although probably if they added the green peas and yellow peas together they would be as high on the list as in the first one, so the ingredient splitting is obnoxious. Although they did it in the first one too, with "peas" and "pea fiber" listed separately. I'd prefer to see lentils rather than potatoes, because potatoes can be inflammatory. I don't see anything that would make me change foods anyway.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I am with Willowy on this one.

Lentils are lower on the glycemic index (compared to oats and potatoes), so personally I think it's a better choice.


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

On the other acana line they have field beans.. I asked in email if it's fava beans or ones like kidneys or whatever.. 

The person says it is fava beans. 

Some sites on searches says fava beans are not good for dogs. Some say it is ok and even have dog treat recipe using fava bean flour.. 

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/101027-FAVA-beans-and-dogs-not-a-good-mix!!!

http://naturallysavvy.com/nest/foods-your-pets-should-and-shouldnt-eat


*That’s because broad beans are poisonous to dogs*
http://doggymom.com/tag/broad-beans/

Fava beans are also called broad beans.. >.<

They said it is safe for dogs, but I dunno. I mean one kibble company says Menadoine is safe and fine.. companies will say anything to get person to try the stuff. 

I much preferred acana pacifica's old ingredients I don't mind potatoes, or oats.. Saya does fine on both things. 

I wish they'd at least get rid of the fava beans.. The duck Bartlett doesn't have field beans from looks of it.

Orijen doesn't have field beans listed either.


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## bowie (Apr 26, 2010)

Willowy said:


> I dunno. I kinda like the look of the new formula better. Yes, they add lentils but without the oats and potatoes it probably comes out to be less plant matter, or about the same. I've heard that any ingredient listed after the fat is not significant, although probably if they added the green peas and yellow peas together they would be as high on the list as in the first one, so the ingredient splitting is obnoxious. Although they did it in the first one too, with "peas" and "pea fiber" listed separately. I'd prefer to see lentils rather than potatoes, because potatoes can be inflammatory. I don't see anything that would make me change foods anyway.


I see what you're saying, but I have a sneaking suspicion there is now less meat. The old formula had 20% oats, so while there were peas, there was either less or equal to that amount in the bag. Now, lentils are named right after the duck. I believe there is more plant protein in the new formula. Could be wrong though, not an expert.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

bowie said:


> I see what you're saying, but I have a sneaking suspicion there is now less meat. The old formula had 20% oats, so while there were peas, there was either less or equal to that amount in the bag. Now, lentils are named right after the duck. I believe there is more plant protein in the new formula. Could be wrong though, not an expert.


I'm confused on your reasoning. In the old formula oats were listed right after duck, and that was okay. Now they have completely removed the oats from the formula but it is not okay for lentils to be listed right after the duck? What ingredient would you prefer, in the new formula, be listed right after the duck?


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Ugh. So depressing. Acana Singles was our go to. Jackson does not do as well with all the legumes and beans and peas and whatever. Ugh. It's why I stopped feeding their Gf line. WHY DO YOU HAVE TO CHANGE PERFECTLY GOOD FOODS?!??!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

gingerkid said:


> I'm confused on your reasoning. In the old formula oats were listed right after duck, and that was okay. Now they have completely removed the oats from the formula but it is not okay for lentils to be listed right after the duck? What ingredient would you prefer, in the new formula, be listed right after the duck?


Ingredients are listed in proportion on their EDIT: WET weight. Equal proportions can be listed in any order the manufacturer decides. If the change in the second or third ingredient is from something with minimal protein to something with significant protein (and also something split into multiple ingredients) it would indicate a shift in main protein source. If the % protein stays the same but the amount of legumes increases, then a higher percent of the protein is coming from the legumes rather than the animal sources.

Edit: They are listed on their WET weight (pre-cooking), not dry weight. Brain fart. Which means that "chicken" actually drops down the list when considered on dry weight because it is measured water inclusive.


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## bowie (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for explaining that, Shell.



Jacksons Mom said:


> WHY DO YOU HAVE TO CHANGE PERFECTLY GOOD FOODS?!??!


I'm willing to bet the new version is cheaper to produce.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

bowie said:


> Thanks for explaining that, Shell.
> 
> I'm willing to bet the new version is cheaper to produce.


I did make an edit- it is pre-cooking (wet) weight order, not dry weight order. 

And yep, I bet it is cheaper too since if the protein percent is the same-ish but there is a larger amount of cheap protein sources, then it stands to reason there is a smaller amount of expensive protein sources.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

That makes a lot more sense.

If the price changes (unlikely) we might actually try it now. We hadn't fed Acana because of the oatmeal, which doesn't really agree with Snowball.

ETA: I'm going to e-mail Champion about the % animal protein.

"ACANA DUCK & BARTLETT PEAR is loaded with a full 50% of duck, including meat, liver and cartilage —all of which deliver nutrients naturally, dramatically reducing the need for synthetic ingredients in ACANA foods." Apparently the liver is freeze-dried, which is kind of cool.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Just wanted to respond with Champion's answer to my e-mail. My question was: " I see on your website that 50% of each formula are animal ingredients, but I was wondering if you can tell me what proportion of the dry-weight protein is specifically animal protein in each of the 3 ACANA singles formulas?"



> Hello (Gingerkid),
> 
> Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry.
> 
> ...


The emphasis is mine.


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

Well that quite impressive honestly! 
Unfortunately I wanted to try one of the singles but I won't now that they're GF. My dog does best on grain inclusive. He needs the fibre to keep his poops solid. I guess we'll be sticking to the classics line.


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

gingerkid said:


> Just wanted to respond with Champion's answer to my e-mail. My question was: " I see on your website that 50% of each formula are animal ingredients, but I was wondering if you can tell me what proportion of the dry-weight protein is specifically animal protein in each of the 3 ACANA singles formulas?"
> 
> 
> 
> The emphasis is mine.


Unfortunately, you asked one question and got a different answer. There is no way the response from them is answering your question.

Three percent of the protein of a 27% formula is 0.81%, that would mean that all the legumes are only 2.7% of the dry matter weight of the food. Are they trying to say 5 ingredients in a food that they say is 50% non-animal ingredients total only 2.7%?

It still doesn't work if 24% is animal and 3% is plant, totally 27%, that would mean that the legumes are about 10% of the food post processing. 

More than likely the dry matter weight of the legumes is about 20% - 25% meaning the plant protein portion of the GA protein is 22% - 27%.

We know that 50% of the food is fresh protein and dried protein, so part of the riddle is solved.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

BennySimpson said:


> Unfortunately, you asked one question and got a different answer. There is no way the response from them is answering your question.
> Three percent of the protein of a 27% formula is 0.81%, that would mean that all the legumes are only 2.7% of the dry matter weight of the food. Are they trying to say 5 ingredients in a food that they say is 50% non-animal ingredients total only 2.7%.


Plants are so full of water a lot of animals use them as their only water source. So it is possible.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

BennySimpson said:


> Unfortunately, you asked one question and got a different answer. There is no way the response from them is answering your question.
> 
> Three percent of the protein of a 27% formula is 0.81%, that would mean that all the legumes are only 2.7% of the dry matter weight of the food. Are they trying to say 5 ingredients in a food that they say is 50% non-animal ingredients total only 2.7%?
> 
> ...



Firstly, I'm not quite sure how you got from 0.81% protein to 2.7% dry matter legumes. If you could clarify, that would be great. Legumes range from roughly 15-25% dry weight protein, and about 70% dry weight fiber. When cooked, the per-weight protein of legumes becomes about 7.5-~12%. Ingredients are listed per pre-cooking weight, not per dry-matter weight, and since of the legumes in the ingredients are not listed as dried, that means they are either fresh (unlikely) or precooked/soaked before processing which means, as Amaryllis has pointed out, they will be mostly water. Check out the difference in protein in dried (100g) vs cooked (100g):

Lentils: Dried - 26g, Cooked - 9g
Yellow peas: Dried - 25g, Cooked - 8g
Chickpeas (garbanzo beans): Dried - 18g, Cooked - 9g
Black beans: Dried - 22g, Cooked - 8g

Especially considering that duck meal, which is mostly protein both on a dry-matter and an as-is basis, is the first ingredient, I really don't see the issue with their response. Now, if the legumes in the ingredients were dried legumes, it would be a whole different story - but they're not.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't know about dried versus cooked versus whatever but what about looking at the amount of fiber in the kibble? 

Lentils are 30 grams of fiber per 100 grams raw dry and the Acana is 6.5% fiber, aka 6.5 grams per 100 grams. Sure there are other fiber sources listed but dried pears are only 6.5 g fiber/100g so not going to go through the whole list.
Pears, not all that dry at 25% water
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/2012/2
Raw lentils, pretty dry at about 10%
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4337/2

Are you sure lentils and other legumes must be soaked and cooked before adding to the kibble mix? I know I have ground split peas to make instant pea soup for backpacking. Don't remember how it tasted or any interesting digestive issues however!

Just seeing ~30% fiber for lentils and peas and 6.5% fiber overall makes me think that Acana is mostly meat protein after all.


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

Amaryllis said:


> Plants are so full of water a lot of animals use them as their only water source. So it is possible.


The 5 legumes that were added are dried, dried before they are added and dried after.

The statement the person made about 3% or less protein from plant can be looked at several ways:

1) 3% or less of the gross weight before cooking. I highly doubt this is the case, so I won't even do the math.

2) 3% of the GA protein, which is 27%. You would agree that 3% of 27 is .81%. All you have to do is take .81% and divide it by the protein level in dried legumes to come with the percentage of the whole food. I used 30% protein level, you can use 25% if you want. This means that at 3% of the GA protein (3% of 27) an ingredient with 25% - 30% protein will represent 2.7% to 3.25% of the whole. This is absurd in this case to think that 5 major ingredients in a category that represents 50% of the ingredients only amount to 2.7% to 3.25%.


3) The 3% protein of the whole dry weight, meaning that 24% is from animal and 3% plant. Using the same logic, this would result in 10% - 12% of the dry food being the total of the 5 legumes. Possible, yes, but still doubtful. Even if this were true, the animal protein content is 89% not 97% as implied. 

Here is another way to look at it and maybe the best. Lets assume, and this is a solid assumption, that 25% of the pre-cooking weight is fresh duck and 25% is duck meal. This would mean 5% dry matter duck is from fresh duck and 25% is from the dried duck meal. Best case is that 30% of the food is dry matter duck, so at 65% protein content the best case is that 20% of the 27%, or 75% (20/27), is from the duck. 7% (27-20) is from the legumes. This is consistent with what I said that initially that 25% of the dry matter food is legume. 

Even if 30% is duck meal and 20% fresh duck, the numbers are still weak at around 80% animal protein, 22/27.

What you were told is a complete obfuscation of the truth.

All Champion has to do is state on the bag or website that of the 27% GA protein, X% is animal sourced. They don't do it because the number is not impressive and reveals the truth.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

BennySimpson said:


> The 5 legumes that were added are dried, dried before they are added and dried after.


How do you know that the legumes are dried? Other foods specify that the lentils are dried in the ingredients list. The FDA states:


> The weights of ingredients are determined as they are added in the formulation[/i], including their inherent water content


. It has been my understanding that to be digestible in any fashion, legumes generally must be cooked or soaked first, and I do not see why that wouldn't be the case for dog food, but certainly if you have proof otherwise I would appreciate it.



> The statement the person made about 3% or less protein from plant can be looked at several ways:
> 
> 1) 3% or less of the gross weight before cooking. I highly doubt this is the case, so I won't even do the math.
> 
> ...


Here is another way to look at it and maybe the best. Lets assume, and this is a solid assumption, that 25% of the pre-cooking weight is fresh duck and 25% is duck meal. This would mean 5% dry matter duck is from fresh duck and 25% is from the dried duck meal. Best case is that 30% of the food is dry matter duck, so at 65% protein content the best case is that 20% of the 27%, or 75% (20/27), is from the duck. 7% (27-20) is from the legumes. This is consistent with what I said that initially that 25% of the dry matter food is legume. 

Even if 30% is duck meal and 20% fresh duck, the numbers are still weak at around 80% animal protein, 22/27.[/quote]

If 30% is duck meal, that is 19.5% dry-matter protein (DMP) assuming 65% DMP for duck meal, but that also does not take into account any of the protein in the fresh duck, or the duck liver, or the freeze-dried duck liver. While fresh duck does not have anywhere close to the DMP of duck meal (fresh duck is around 18% I think), you cannot simply ignore it. If 20% of the food is fresh duck that would still contribute 3.6% DMP from fresh duck, making for a total of ~23% of DMP protein coming from duck meal and fresh duck, without considering the protein present in the duck liver and freeze-dried duck liver.

If you adjust the numbers, to 32% duck meal and 18% fresh duck, you end up with 20.8% DMP from the meal and 3.24% from the fresh duck for a total of 24.04% DMP. 

If you adjust the numbers a bit more, to 35% duck meal and 15% fresh duck, you end up with 22.75% DMP from the meal and 2.7% from the fresh duck for a total of 25.45% DMP.

The reality is, we're dealing with relatively small changes - 1% here or there can be shifted around pretty easily. Unless you work for Champion (which seems unlikely), neither of us KNOW the proportions that they are using and there are too many other factors that you (and I) are not able to accurately account for, (e.g. legumes do NOT make up 50% of the food; 50% is the duck ingredients, and the other 50% is the legumes AND the pears AND the pumpkin, etc.) for me to take a random dude's word over a local company. And while statistics are easily manipulated, especially when the claims made are vague, I have a hard time imagining a company flat out lying, which would be the case in all of the scenarios that you have presented.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Just an observation since of course I cannot know their exact proportions.

The first 10 ingredients of the old formula:
Duck meal, deboned duck, steel-cut oats, peas, whole pears, whole potato, duck fat, duck liver, sun-cured alfalfa, oat flakes

The first 10 ingredients of the new formula:
Duck meal, deboned duck*, green lentils, red lentils, duck liver*, pears*, duck fat, green peas, yellow peas, algae

Oats are surprisingly high in protein, about 13 g per 100 g serving dry. Raw potato is only about 2g per 100 g serving. It does seem a shift towards legume based proteins- raw lentils are about 26 g protein per 100 gram serving. Lentils have a fairly low moisture content for a plant. Not knowing the proportions of each ingredient is the hard part, but if the protein content of the food as a whole stays around the same amount but several higher protein plant based foods are included in the first 10 ingredients, I'm still inclined to think that a larger proportion of the food is plant based protein then it was before.


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

Kathyy said:


> I don't know about dried versus cooked versus whatever but what about looking at the amount of fiber in the kibble?
> 
> Lentils are 30 grams of fiber per 100 grams raw dry and the Acana is 6.5% fiber, aka 6.5 grams per 100 grams. Sure there are other fiber sources listed but dried pears are only 6.5 g fiber/100g so not going to go through the whole list.
> Pears, not all that dry at 25% water
> ...


The lentils are dried just as you buy them in the store, dried and hard. They are also ground to a flour before being used in kibble. otherwise they couldn't be processed. If you use the fiber argument you come up with at least 22% lentil so 6.5% protein contributed to overall 27. So 20.5/27 equals 75% animal protein of total protein. 

Its pretty obvious and multiple views show that what the Champion person said is a load a bull.

By their own admission, non-meat sources are 50% of the food so to think that portion with 5 different legumes is so innocent is foolhardy.

If legumes do not represent so much protein, why didn't they use just one form instead of 5. 

Answer is pretty obvious, try to hide the truth.

Right Gingerkid?


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

gingerkid said:


> Firstly, I'm not quite sure how you got from 0.81% protein to 2.7% dry matter legumes. If you could clarify, that would be great. Legumes range from roughly 15-25% dry weight protein, and about 70% dry weight fiber. When cooked, the per-weight protein of legumes becomes about 7.5-~12%. Ingredients are listed per pre-cooking weight, not per dry-matter weight, and since of the legumes in the ingredients are not listed as dried, that means they are either fresh (unlikely) or precooked/soaked before processing which means, as Amaryllis has pointed out, they will be mostly water. Check out the difference in protein in dried (100g) vs cooked (100g):
> 
> Lentils: Dried - 26g, Cooked - 9g
> Yellow peas: Dried - 25g, Cooked - 8g
> ...


Duck meal is not mostly protein, you make it sound its 100%, it is about 60% - 65%

They are dried, come in a box or a bag just like the ones you buy in the store. They don't list them on the label after they have been cooked like you would cook them at home.

So all Champion has to do is disclose what portion of the 27% is animal and which is not, then argument is over.

Why won't they if the story is good? Can anyone explain that?


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

Curious anyone know about issues of *field(fava) beans?* They're on the ingredient list for the pacifica. I was going to get acana pacifica to try as I'm almost out of the fromm surf and turf, but decided to go with orijen 6fish since it didn't have field beans listed on it's ingredients.

Some sites say it's OK for dogs and some say it isn't and is dangerous for dogs. I dunno..

I mainly feed raw diet only use kibble as low value treat and easy treat to use when out walking in the city and need reward for being good or give treat to person if they want to give her treat.. kids goes nuts over having her do tricks and giving her treats. 

I gave Saya a few kibbles of orijen and she went nuts over it and acted like it was good. She likes the fromm surf and turf, but with orijen one she seemed even more excited maybe because it's new formula and brand of kibble and she is used to fromm.


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

KuroSaya said:


> Curious anyone know about issues of *field(fava) beans?* They're on the ingredient list for the pacifica. I was going to get acana pacifica to try as I'm almost out of the fromm surf and turf, but decided to go with orijen 6fish since it didn't have field beans listed on it's ingredients.
> 
> Some sites say it's OK for dogs and some say it isn't and is dangerous for dogs. I dunno..
> 
> ...



Field Beans are not Fava Beans, in fact they are actually opposites The term "Field Bean" is a broad class of common bean that are harvested once the inner seed, the bean is dried. If Fava Beans are called "Field Beans" somewhere else it is just a coincidence.

More than likely the actual variety is white navy bean or black-eyes peas. The common varieties on every supermarket shelf if they harvested once the bean in dried are called Field Beans by the USDA. The company that uses them probably wants the flexibility to use different varieties so rather than say "White Navy Beans" they use the broad term in case Black Eyed Peas are cheaper.


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

This is reply I got when asked if the field beans is fava or some type of other type of beans.. Maybe the person misunderstood me I don't know. 

Fava beans are also called field beans which was one reason I contacted champion to be sure. They're also called broad beans.. 


> Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BennySimpson (Mar 18, 2014)

KuroSaya said:


> This is reply I got when asked if the field beans is fava or some type of other type of beans.. Maybe the person misunderstood me I don't know.
> 
> Fava beans are also called field beans which was one reason I contacted champion to be sure. They're also called broad beans..


Customer Service people say lots of things that are innaccurate, especially this company. I would bet a good bottle of scotch that Fava Beans are not toxic but I would also bet a good bottle of scotch that they are not Fava Beans, especially all year round. The way they label the food allows them to use the USDA definition and use any food bean that is dried on the plant in the field.

One thing to keep in mind about Canada. There are no federal regualtions other than a few like the bag must say the food is either dog or cat food, stuff like that. The Canadian authorities do not regulate ingredients, ingredient quality or ingredient names like the US or Europe. Canadian pet food plants plants are not even inspected by the Canadian Government, according to CFIA. 

In any event I wouldn't worry about Fava Bean toxicity.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

BennySimpson said:


> Duck meal is not mostly protein, you make it sound its 100%, it is about 60% - 65%?


Sorry, last time I checked, 60% was a majority = mostly. You'll also notice that when I did my calculations for DMP (last post on the first page) that I used 65% DMP for duck meal...



BennySimpson said:


> Customer Service people say lots of things that are innaccurate, especially this company. I would bet a good bottle of scotch that Fava Beans are not toxic but I would also bet a good bottle of scotch that they are not Fava Beans, especially all year round. The way they label the food allows them to use the USDA definition and use any food bean that is dried on the plant in the field.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind about Canada. There are no federal regualtions other than a few like the bag must say the food is either dog or cat food, stuff like that. The Canadian authorities do not regulate ingredients, ingredient quality or ingredient names like the US or Europe. Canadian pet food plants plants are not even inspected by the Canadian Government, according to CFIA.


You say this like Canadian food is completely unregulated.  Lastly, pet food labelling is regulated by the Consumer Packaging and Labelling Act, which is overseen by Industry Canada. I'm fairly certain that any food that is exported to the US would have to meet American regulations before export certificates are issued. In fact, point 3 states:



> 3. Ingredients
> 3.1 Ingredient Definitions
> a) Feed ingredient definitions can be found in the current version of the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) Official Publication. They are recommended as the definition guidelines for ingredient labelling in Canada.


Lastly, I found this interesting because it indicates that 90% of Acana Duck & Bartlett Pear is... duck and bartlett Pears. Its basically a smoking gun... or the 50% duck claim is misleading (and they're actually using more than that).



> 4.2 When an ingredient or combination of ingredients constitutes 90% or more of the total mass of all ingredients in the pet food formula, the name or names of such ingredients may form a part of the product name of the pet food without any qualification(s) (for example: "My Brand" Beef Dog Food).


I am still not convinced that Champion is as evil as you say, Bumper1, but I will agree that something doesn't quite add up.


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

I love seeing the same anti-Champion foods arguments brought up time and time again by the same poster under various usernames. 

I wish I had that kind of free time.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

gingerkid said:


> Lastly, I found this interesting because it indicates that 90% of Acana Duck & Bartlett Pear is... duck and bartlett Pears. Its basically a smoking gun... or the 50% duck claim is misleading (and they're actually using more than that).
> 
> I am still not convinced that Champion is as evil as you say, Bumper1, but I will agree that something doesn't quite add up.


LOL. You have deja vu also?

The 90% rule is interesting though. Doesn't add up if duck is 50% in total (all duck products added together) since that would mean pears needed to be 40% and since pear is only listed once as an ingredient and there are non-duck, non-pear ingredients listed before it and duck fat listed after it, then the ingredients don't add up to 100%. Lets say duck is 70%, even then, that would make pears 20% and since two kinds of lentils are listed before pears, they'd each have to be greater than or equal to the pre-cooking weight of the pears. Math doesn't work- 70% duck, 20% each two kinds of lentils, 20% pears = 130% just for those ingredients which is impossible.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Shell said:


> LOL. You have deja vu also?
> 
> The 90% rule is interesting though. Doesn't add up if duck is 50% in total (all duck products added together) since that would mean pears needed to be 40% and since pear is only listed once as an ingredient and there are non-duck, non-pear ingredients listed before it and duck fat listed after it, then the ingredients don't add up to 100%. Lets say duck is 70%, even then, that would make pears 20% and since two kinds of lentils are listed before pears, they'd each have to be greater than or equal to the pre-cooking weight of the pears. Math doesn't work- 70% duck, 20% each two kinds of lentils, 20% pears = 130% just for those ingredients which is impossible.


Totally agree. The other thing I could think of is if it is listed as "flavour" or "dinner" or something like that, it changes the labeling rules. Rereading the regulations I did find this:



> 4.3 When an ingredient or combination of ingredients constitutes at least 25% but less than 90% of the total mass of all ingredients of a pet food formula, the name or names of such ingredients may form a part of the product name of the pet food only if the product name also includes a primary descriptive term such as "meatballs", "fish cakes", "dinner", *"formula"*, "stew", or "meal" (for example: "My Brand Beef Dinner Dog Food").


Unfortunately I don't actually have a bag of Acana and I couldn't find a decent photo of it online to check if there's any small print extraneous descriptors, but I have a feeling it is listed as "Duck and Barlett Pear formula dog food". I don't suppose anyone can confirm that?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Yep, it says "formula"

Clear photo on Chewy
(the pre-ingredient change bag though)


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Well, that answers that question. Duck and Pears makes up >25% but <90% of the food. I feel a lot less irked now.

Also, think about it... why would there be less duck meal than fresh duck? Surely duck meal is less expensive, especially if they are using (as they claim) fresh, never frozen, duck...?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Duck meal is listed first, deboned duck second so the pre-cooking weight of the duck meal is greater than or equal to that of the deboned duck.


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## bowie (Apr 26, 2010)

Shell said:


> Yep, it says "formula"
> 
> Clear photo on Chewy
> (the pre-ingredient change bag though)


The new bag also says "formula." http://www.acana.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ACA-SINGLES-WEB-PDF-2014-DUCK.pdf It's a little hard to see.

This thread has been very interesting, thanks gingerkid, shell, and even bumper1 (lol). I wish dog food labeling was more straightforward. Too bad the weight percentages are not stated on the bag like in Europe.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I noticed they have a new singles pork food as well.

www.acana.com/products/singles/pork-butternut-squash/


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