# Dog attacked by 2 others while walking - How to stop in future?!



## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

Last night I was walking our dog, a female 3 1/2 yr old chocolate lab. And to be honest, by walking I mean I was skating a long with her so she could run. It was about 11pm.

As we were about a block and a half from home, 2 pitbulls (possibly mixes) came out from a dark area and went straight for mine. They were between blocks probably sniffing some bushes. I didn't see them until after they had came out into the light about 5 or 10 feet after we had gone past them.

There was never any warning as they just ran out from the dark and attacked. I tried punching, eye gouging, etc. I was able to break them free once but they didn't have collars on so one would slip out of my grasp and resume attacking. It felt like a never ending battle that I was going to lose and possibly lose my dog. Luckily neighbors heard the commotion and came out to help stop them.

Today Animal Control issued the owners a citation (65$ fine!) and came over to have me write out a statement. He told me that the dogs owners cousin was home with the dogs and was too lazy to take them out use the bathroom - they live in apartments near by and have no fenced backyard - and just let them out the front door and went back to sleep.

I sorta feel like, "Hey it was late at night and dark! I shouldn't of been out there" and "We were running and dogs love to chase so that might have started it". If those people hadn't come and helped me I don't know If our girl would have survived.

But enough about the sob story. It happened and I wanna make sure that if it does happen again (I hope it never does) I'm prepared.

My question is: What should I do to protect myself? I don't want to carry a gun, it's just not something I'm comfortable with. I've read pepper spray won't work if the dogs are already attacking and that It's more of a preventative measure? I didn't have that luxury. Maybe a knife? I was close enough that I could punch and gouge at them. At one point I had one in a head lock and the other by the scruff of it's neck but the headlocked one weaseled out and went back to attacking. A retractable baton? Would that do anything to dogs in that kind of attack mode? I don't want to carry around a big bat. Something that I can put in my pocket or in a holster would be best.

Thanks for any ideas you guys have and I hope no one here has to ever go through something like this.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

First off, I am so sorry that this happened to you and your girl, and I am so thankful to hear that she is okay. 

What a POS the person that let those dogs out sounds like. Yet another reason to add to the list of the bad reps Pits get all thanks to an irresponsible piece of scum that was too lazy to leash a dog and stand outside with it for a few minutes. Some people are just unbelievable. 

I find it interesting that you're uncomfortable with carrying a gun, yet feel okay with a knife? Why that is, I'm not sure, as a gun would be more reliable and less invasive, but if you are okay with a knife I think that is a good means of self protection. I would look into investing in some bear mace. I find it hard to believe that even a dog in the middle of an attack wouldn't be effected by that. 


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

I've heard that throwing water on them is a good way to break up a fight, but honestly I don't usually carry water for just a walk near home. I'm not sure what I would do if this happened to us.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

am so sorry .. I started carrying a baton taszer it will stop a dog in it's tracks at a good distance from you... The lab that kept running through his fence at us onto the road only used it once on a charge at us... he will not even bark at us and will walk around to the other side of the house when we are coming up the road.. Never touched the dog with the taszer... The sound was enough... You will have to do extensive training with your own dog for them to be ok with the sound,, and never point your device at your dog always activate it behind you and away from them in a short burst ... and if you use it... step out in front of your dog to activate it. yes check to see if it is legal in your state, and that your dog can learn to handle it (short burst at a distance away from them is a good place to start none of my guys liked it but now they are curious about it as there is a reward for when they hear it that was over a months worth of short 1 time burst exposure training... The baton is very high powered, I don't feel you need something that strong,, because it's the sound that bothers the dogs.

one to add very important point.... would use this for prevention to stop a dog from approaching/charging... I do not promote using it if a dog is physically latched onto your dog... because it might escalate the dog to attack/ripp harder into your dog..


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Jen2010 said:


> I've heard that throwing water on them is a good way to break up a fight, but honestly I don't usually carry water for just a walk near home. I'm not sure what I would do if this happened to us.



Water will not stop a dog that is intent...


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## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

BubbaMoose said:


> First off, I am so sorry that this happened to you and your girl, and I am so thankful to hear that she is okay.
> 
> What a POS the person that let those dogs out sounds like. Yet another reason to add to the list of the bad reps Pits get all thanks to an irresponsible piece of scum that was too lazy to leash a dog and stand outside with it for a few minutes. Some people are just unbelievable.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply!

I guess now I'm another statistic in the database about pits being a bad breed. I kinda don't know who I'm angry at now. Like you said, they already have a bad reputation so you'd hope that owners of the breed would be even that much more active in trying to responsible owners. But it appears the cousin let them out. So who am I suppose to be angry at? The cousin? Maybe he didn't even know they'd be any problem since they could be the nicest dogs in the world in the home around him. The owners? but they didn't let them out.. but maybe they should have trained them not to attack? Is that a thing? They were never there to stop them.

As for the gun thing. I think it's because when I was a teen a "friend" pulled a "prank" where they woke me up and were pointing a gun at me. Since then I've always had an uneasiness when handling a gun myself. I'm not against others carrying or anything. It's just a personal problem I have. Probably a combination of the power it has combined with a bad experience. I know I would be responsible but just holding one makes me feel uneasy. Also I would be afraid that I might shoot my own dog by accident. Though that could happen with a knife but I don't have that irrational fear about them.

Do you know of any brands I could look up? Or just a bear mace search on amazon would be fine?


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

A knife is a lot more "up close and personal" than a gun. Knives are very hand to hand and a lot of folks cannot do it... inflicting a serious injury with a knife is likely going to result in you being sprayed with blood. 
Just something to keep in mind.

A retractable baton. Same thing... A blow hard enough to inflict pain and injury enough to stop something... Also going to be dramatic. 

Sprays do not work. 

Shocking device.... Will usually work.


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## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

PatriciafromCO said:


> one to add very important point.... would use this for prevention to stop a dog from approaching/charging... I do not promote using it if a dog is physically latched onto your dog... because it might escalate the dog to attack/ripp harder into your dog..


Yeah, that was the problem. I had no time for any prevention and in the areas I go I'm able to see ahead of us. Had I seen those dogs (it was at night and they were pitch black between street lights) there's no way I would of went down that road home. So maybe a tazer isn't the best for my situation. I'm usually skating with my dog so were going around at the speed of about someone riding a bike.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Cattle prod or bear mace.
Make sure PB owners get the vet bill for your dog.


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## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

JohnnyBandit said:


> A knife is a lot more "up close and personal" than a gun. Knives are very hand to hand and a lot of folks cannot do it... inflicting a serious injury with a knife is likely going to result in you being sprayed with blood.
> Just something to keep in mind.
> 
> A retractable baton. Same thing... A blow hard enough to inflict pain and injury enough to stop something... Also going to be dramatic.
> ...


The blood wouldn't bother me. I don't think I would have hesitated to bash those dogs skulls in with a baton or stab them to death. Though I wonder if I could inflict a good enough blow to stop them. Gonna be honest here, I'm not the strongest guy out there.

I'm just not sure which would be the best overall tool if it ever happens again.


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## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

spotted nikes said:


> Cattle prod or bear mace.
> Make sure PB owners get the vet bill for your dog.


They've offered to pay as told to us by the Sheriff and Animal Control. Hopefully they come through with that, looks like it's gonna be around $200. But I'm not planning on it, ya know?

Also, Thank you for all the replies!


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

jim123 said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> 
> I guess now I'm another statistic in the database about pits being a bad breed. I kinda don't know who I'm angry at now. Like you said, they already have a bad reputation so you'd hope that owners of the breed would be even that much more active in trying to responsible owners. But it appears the cousin let them out. So who am I suppose to be angry at? The cousin? Maybe he didn't even know they'd be any problem since they could be the nicest dogs in the world in the home around him. The owners? but they didn't let them out.. but maybe they should have trained them not to attack? Is that a thing? They were never there to stop them.
> 
> ...


Hi! 

I find it pretty disturbing that someone could be enough of an idiot to open the front door of an apartment and let two dogs completely free to roam as they please in the middle of the night. If they owners weren't there, I wouldn't be upset with them. They had no control over the situation, and some dogs are just dog aggressive (DA). IMO, that's okay as long as it's managed (sometimes that's all there is to do). Don't want to delve too deep into it, but it's very common for pit bulls to be DA. Doesn't mean they're bad dogs, they aren't, from my understanding it is literally a part of their genetics. That's why it's so important for them especially to be in the hands of a responsible owner. Obviously that didn't happen last night, hopefully it's been a learning lesson for the owners, not to leave them alone in the hands of people that can't be trusted. Unfortunately this happened at the expense of your girl, but it's great news that she'll make a full recovery. How is she today?

Sorry to hear about the scare you had with the gun. That's pretty sick, I don't blame you for feeling the way that you do. I think a knife would definitely be a good investment. As for the mace, I really have no idea where to find that. I would start off with a search online. Do you have a Cabela's or Bass Pro Shop near you? If so, I think it might be worth it to call them and see if they carry any. 

Edit: so good to hear they're picking up the bill. I didn't even think of that. Fingers crossed that they actually pull through with that!

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## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

BubbaMoose said:


> Hi!
> 
> I find it pretty disturbing that someone could be enough of an idiot to open the front door of an apartment and let two dogs completely free to roam as they please in the middle of the night. If they owners weren't there, I wouldn't be upset with them. They had no control over the situation, and some dogs are just dog aggressive (DA). IMO, that's okay as long as it's managed (sometimes that's all there is to do). Don't want to delve too deep into it, but it's very common for pit bulls to be DA. Doesn't mean they're bad dogs, they aren't, from my understanding it is literally a part of their genetics. That's why it's so important for them especially to be in the hands of a responsible owner. Obviously that didn't happen last night, hopefully it's been a learning lesson for the owners, not to leave them alone in the hands of people that can't be trusted. Unfortunately this happened at the expense of your girl, but it's great news that she'll make a full recovery. How is she today?
> 
> ...


That's what the Animal Control guy said. He told me from the events I described that they are probably Dog Aggressive. They never snapped at me and my only injury other than bruised and scratched knuckles is my thumbnail has a bruise from one biting down but that was because I had my thumb in ones mouth when trying to push them off. When I had one by the neck and the other in a headlock they could of went after me at any moment. I totally agree with you on that!

She's still at the vet. I'm gonna go pick her up in about 30 minutes. They said she'd need stitches for an ear laceration and something about a drain? for the big puncture wounds behind that same ear. She was limping but I'm not sure what may have caused that. She seemed in good spirits this morning while waiting at the vet, she was still friendly to the dogs - though they were small - one got a little in her face and she looked a bit defensive but didn't do anything. I really hope this doesn't affect her in a bad way and makes her aggressive to larger dogs. She always wants to play when she sees others.

Looks like the only ones of those shops near us are an hour plus drive away 

Thank you for your help!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

jim123 said:


> The blood wouldn't bother me. I don't think I would have hesitated to bash those dogs skulls in with a baton or stab them to death. Though I wonder if I could inflict a good enough blow to stop them. Gonna be honest here, I'm not the strongest guy out there.
> 
> I'm just not sure which would be the best overall tool if it ever happens again.


Frankly a firearm. IF you are in a location where it is legal to carry..... sign up for a class at a gun range and get past your issue.


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## funky_shep (Oct 18, 2013)

short of a gun, which would work but much more permanently than another option and you could hit your dog if theyve begun fighting already. i dont know if pit bull would be scared by this, but a trainer from years ago told me that the best thing was a collapsable umbrella. ideally it is a one button, push and it open in a half a second, and then the dog has a big bright obstacle that was a huge surprise. with a pit bull maybe get a taser (hand held) and use it after they are already in a fight to break it up.

that is definately a tough one. irresponsible PIT BULL owners have ruined it for all of us, pit bulls included.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Frankly a firearm. IF you are in a location where it is legal to carry..... sign up for a class at a gun range and get past your issue.


Personally, in an urban area I don't think that's a great idea. OP is unlikely to have the kind of accuracy that a handgun on rollerblades against fighting or running dogs would require. People walking around with guns in the city to shoot dogs they deem a threat just seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I suspect Johnny and I just have a difference of opinion about gun usage in general though. Make sure to check legislation in your area as Johnny suggests, you could be charged with a felony even without hitting anything in some areas.

I would go for a breakstick or baton. Maybe spray or a shocking device. Was this a one-time thing or are there often loose dogs in your neighbourhood? 

Sorry about the attack OP.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

A cattle prod or stun gun. I've never seen electricity fail to stop an animal in its tracks.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

a metal cane with ice grips (the spiky metal one) You can bash or stab, whichever the dogs respond to. 
I carry one on occasion, or steel toed boots, haven't had to use them but in a pinch I could break a few ribs.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

aiw said:


> Personally, in an urban area I don't think that's a great idea. OP is unlikely to have the kind of accuracy that a handgun on rollerblades against fighting or running dogs would require. People walking around with guns in the city to shoot dogs they deem a threat just seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I suspect Johnny and I just have a difference of opinion about gun usage in general though. Make sure to check legislation in your area as Johnny suggests, you could be charged with a felony even without hitting anything in some areas.
> 
> I would go for a breakstick or baton. Maybe spray or a shocking device. Was this a one-time thing or are there often loose dogs in your neighbourhood?
> 
> Sorry about the attack OP.


ANYPLACE in which it is legal to carry a concealed firearm, discharging in a self defensive situation, is deemed self defense.... 

Say I am walking down the street, and am rushed by two large dogs in, Atlanta, Tampa, Miami, Dallas, Birmingham, Charlotte, Nashville, Phoenix, Houston, Jacksonville, Biloxi, (virtually any city that is not in the Northeast or on the Pacific Coast), and.. I pull out my gun and pop the two dogs, I would be FINE and LEGAL. 

Now.... All of the Cities, Counties and States, in the places I mentioned, without checking, without a doubt have laws making the discharge of a firearm in an urban setting a felony. But all of those States have concealed carry and self defense laws that trump the discharging of a firearm law.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

aiw said:


> Personally, in an urban area I don't think that's a great idea. OP is unlikely to have the kind of accuracy that a handgun on rollerblades against fighting or running dogs would require. People walking around with guns in the city to shoot dogs they deem a threat just seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I suspect Johnny and I just have a difference of opinion about gun usage in general though. Make sure to check legislation in your area as Johnny suggests, you could be charged with a felony even without hitting anything in some areas.
> 
> I would go for a breakstick or baton. Maybe spray or a shocking device. Was this a one-time thing or are there often loose dogs in your neighbourhood?
> 
> Sorry about the attack OP.


And your example is not really relevant. The man fired the gun in the air. Most places the is reckless endangerment. If you are shooting in the air you are 1) being stupid and 2) trying to scare someone or something. Scaring something is not self defense.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

And the OP questioned whether he could hit a dog hard enough in the head with a baton.......

With the proper technique a 90 pound person could kill a dog or human with one hit from one of these. 

But in many places, batons are regulated.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> And your example is not really relevant. The man fired the gun in the air. Most places the is reckless endangerment. If you are shooting in the air you are 1) being stupid and 2) trying to scare someone or something. Scaring something is not self defense.


Well, the man was trying to break up a dogfight so if OP does go the gun route its probably good for him to know not to fire in the air. He'll need to be willing to shoot a dog that's just rushing them though, once they're tussling its just as likely he'll hit his own dog. Now that I think about it, I don't know that defense of your dog qualifies as self defense. Maybe its the culture up here (I don't know where OP is) but shooting a dog that's rushing you is not going to go down well.

I would still strongly recommend against, but again we likely just disagree about appropriate gun use in general.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm going with bear mace or an electric prod. I don't agree with the use of a gun, and I'll leave it at that. There are other options.

So sorry to hear about what happened, that sounds terrifying. I always worry about my dog when we're out for a walk because is is leash reactive and we have come across loose dogs before. It's scary. One big thing to keep in mind, and I know it's easier said than done, but if it happens again keep calm! If you are stressed or panicked then the situation can escalate, your dog will be stressed and panicked a lot worse and over all can make things much worse.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I agree with the break stick and the mace, not a gun or a knife I feel you could stop the dogs without killing them. But I understand it's a scary situation, if my dogs were attacked I would do whatever I could to stop it. I tried to get myself educated on stopping dog fights when I got Xena, I have read things mentioning break sticks, grabbing the dog's back legs and lifting them up like a wheelbarrow and pulling them back, grabbing the collar or scruff of the neck and pulling straight up. 

I can't say I wouldn't hit or kick a dog attacking mine but I would be careful doing that as the dog might decide to attack you instead. I am a big fan of the mace idea as you could stop the dog at a distance and the dog is no worse for the wear after a bath.


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## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

aiw said:


> Personally, in an urban area I don't think that's a great idea. OP is unlikely to have the kind of accuracy that a handgun on rollerblades against fighting or running dogs would require. People walking around with guns in the city to shoot dogs they deem a threat just seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I suspect Johnny and I just have a difference of opinion about gun usage in general though. Make sure to check legislation in your area as Johnny suggests, you could be charged with a felony even without hitting anything in some areas.
> 
> I would go for a breakstick or baton. Maybe spray or a shocking device. Was this a one-time thing or are there often loose dogs in your neighbourhood?
> 
> Sorry about the attack OP.


This was a one time thing. I've ran into a couple smaller dogs that have got loose and a few retriever types but have been able to avoid them. I've never seen any at night before.

Those dogs will still be around so it's possible they get loose again. Animal Control won't be putting them down or anything. They were given a citation which ended up just being a 65$ ticket since it was their first offense.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

aiw said:


> Well, the man was trying to break up a dogfight so if OP does go the gun route its probably good for him to know not to fire in the air. He'll need to be willing to shoot a dog that's just rushing them though, once they're tussling its just as likely he'll hit his own dog. Now that I think about it, I don't know that defense of your dog qualifies as self defense. Maybe its the culture up here (I don't know where OP is) but shooting a dog that's rushing you is not going to go down well.
> 
> I would still strongly recommend against, but again we likely just disagree about appropriate gun use in general.


The first test of the Stand your ground law in Florida was a guy that had already been robbed and had given up his wallet and pulled his gun and shot I believe three men, killing two of them because they threatened to kill his dog...

The thing is... two dogs attacking your leashed dog, at your feet, is a danger to you.... It certainly qualifies as self defense. 

There is no way shooting a dog that is rushing at you is not self defense... At least in most of the U.S. 

A loose dog is a threat... 

As far as shooting a dog that is attacking your dog.... Very easy to do without putting your dog in danger. The guy was guilty of reckless endangerment. If he felt the dogs were a real threat, he would have shot at them. 

As for your example.... The very fact that he shot in the air, proves he never felt the dogs were a threat. 

As an aside... I seriously doubt I would or could shoot a dog that was attacking me. 

Attacking my dog? It would have to be a SERIOUS mismatch.


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## jim123 (Oct 25, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone. For more information I live in NW Florida.

Also keep in mind that there were 2 dogs of about the same size. If I grabbed control of one, the other was getting her. I couldn't figure out a way to stop both. I don't know if any 1 dog strategies would have worked. If I were to have singled one from the fight the other would of just had their way with her.

I went to thank the ladies who came to our rescue and asked one about some time during the scuffle that I don't remember. After punching and doing everything I could think of I ended up trying to cover my dog. Then the next thing I remember I was about a block down the street where it all ended. I don't know how I got there. She said that as I was covering my dog they were dragging her down the street. She said I kept crawling with her to try to keep her covered while at the same time trying to push the dogs off and screaming help.

As for guns and preventative measures before the attack: I had none. It was literally like being jumped by 2 people who were hiding in the dark behind a bush as you jogged past. I felt I had about a half second to respond to the attack. There's no way I could of lined up a shot, unfolded a pocket knife, sprayed them to keep them away, etc.

I admit this is a very unique situation but I feel it may be a "worst case scenario".

She's back from the vet and has a drain (never dealt with one before). Here's a pic of her today - WARNING IT'S BLOODY LOOKING: http://i.imgur.com/ZJmz1DA.jpg. The other ear was unscathed and nothing else required sutures. They were either small puncture wounds or scrapes and scratches. That same ear also has a long laceration under it too. Here's the most recent picture I have of her our brother took christmas day 2012 http://i.imgur.com/Dn5OT76.jpg. 

Again thank you all for you're responses! I'm still kinda stuck on whether a knife, pepper spray, or some sort of club/bat/stick is what I'll carry with me in the future. Maybe some combination with pepper spray since it's very small and easy to carry.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Those advocating mace, pepper sprays etc. Should take a hard look at their effectiveness on dogs. 
It is not reliable.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> The first test of the Stand your ground law in Florida was a guy that had already been robbed and had given up his wallet and pulled his gun and shot I believe three men, killing two of them because they threatened to kill his dog...
> 
> The thing is... two dogs attacking your leashed dog, at your feet, is a danger to you.... It certainly qualifies as self defense.


I see OP is in Florida, so you'd know the laws there better than I would. This is one aspect where our countries/culture diverge quite a bit.

If preventing the fight isn't an option (sounds like OP didn't have time) a breakstick long enough to double as a billy club might be best? I haven't broken up enough dog fights to know.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

aiw said:


> I see OP is in Florida, so you'd know the laws there better than I would. This is one aspect where our countries/culture diverge quite a bit.
> 
> If preventing the fight isn't an option (sounds like OP didn't have time) a breakstick long enough to double as a billy club might be best? I haven't broken up enough dog fights to know.



Florida is like MOST of the country in regard to firearms and self defense laws... 

As for a situation where two dogs rushed and attacked my dog. It would be a two on two... I would wheel barrel one out of there.... Figure out a way to deal with that one and move on from there...


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Florida is like MOST of the country in regard to firearms and self defense laws...
> 
> As for a situation where two dogs rushed and attacked my dog. It would be a two on two... I would wheel barrel one out of there.... Figure out a way to deal with that one and move on from there...


I didn't think most states had stand your ground laws? In any event, I'm up in Canada so both the laws and culture are *very* different where guns are concerned.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Those advocating mace, pepper sprays etc. Should take a hard look at their effectiveness on dogs.
> It is not reliable.


Good point, but something, but something to consider....even if it were effective it is highly likely if not guaranteed that your own dog would get a good spray of it. 
As for guns...I really don't think it is a good idea. A person can get a gun and go to the firing range all they want, but there are a couple of other issues. First, can you pull the trigger when it is pointed at a living being (I suppose, if you're willing to use a knife most likely yes...), second, can you stay cool enough in the head (and maybe you can, I don't know) to aim accurately, and have the chance at a good shot in that situation without hitting your own dog? To me any kind of projectile or spray could put your own dog in danger unless you are extremely skilled, or extremely lucky. 

I personally would go with a cattle prod/taser type of thing (though I guess if your dogs are joined your own dog might get a hit). A baton, stick or knife would also work, again, bloody, messy and very violent, but worth it in some cases, and you say you are ok with that, so sounds like a decent option for when it gets that bad.

Just a thought, perhaps a starter pistol....they are LOUD, it might (and I say might) be enough to get the dogs to break for a second. That is the least harmful thing I can think of that might at least give an advantage. 

I'm really sorry to hear this happened, I hope your dog is going to make it through ok with the minimum of scars, and with no other bad reactions. I would personally try to go beyond animal control with this and go to the police and see if any charges can be laid, at very least it might scare the owners into making sure their dogs are more controlled even when they are gone rather than some POS tossing them in the yard. Please don't blame yourself for this at all, there is no reason that you should have had a problem going down that road, other than those dogs, which are NOT your responsibility...people are supposed to control their dogs, and you were controlling your own, you really shouldn't have to do that for them!


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Mace/pepper spray will affect you as well as your dog. If you miss the other dogs eyes, and even with a direct hit, high fight driven dogs wont stop. 
It may take several blows from a baton, and with two dogs, and a scuffle you are likely to hit your own dog, as you draw back to swing and the dogs are moving quickly.

The cattle prod or stun gun, however, offers excellent aim, is powerful enough to stop any size dog, can be used over and over, and has no lasting effects on you, your dog, or the attacking dogs. I have seen many methods fail, but not this.

At the clinic I worked for years ago, we had an apbt attack a cat while boarding (long, bad story). With four people, a broom handle, and a metal rod used as a break stick, we were unable to prevent the dog from killing the cat. We choked, wheeled his back legs (total joke!) Smacked him in the head, finally used pentothal injected IV to sedate him! A stun gun would have worked instantly.


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## 3's a Charm (Oct 17, 2013)

I am very comfortable with guns and knives, but I have never considered that they would be helpful in preventing dog attacks on walks. My thoughts are
1. I am not willing to use deadly force on an animal that hasn't engaged yet. Lots of dogs will run up and bark and growl, far fewer actually attack. I would have killed nearly twenty dogs if I shot every dog that ran up aggressively to my dogs (yet they have never been attacked) .
2. If I wait for an attack then I am as likely to shoot my own dog or another person accidentally. I have shot guns my whole life. Accuracy at a time when you are scared, surprised and in a hurry is hard to come by. Trying to hit the attacking dog instead of your own while they are tusseling is gonna be tough.
3. A knife might escalate the situation, or cause the dog to turn on you. 

I carry bearspray and it has worked well both times I have used it. I still hate to use it, but I know the dog isn't going to die if I have made a bad judgement call. Even if the dog still wants to attack, he is going to have a hard time because his vision is impaired. If I accidently spray my dog or a human, they will not be injured. It is easy to carry, quick to use and safe. 

I think carrying bearspray and a stick is a good option. I am so sorry about what happened to you. Whatever measure you decide on, I hope you never have to use it.


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## 3's a Charm (Oct 17, 2013)

The stun gun /cattle prod idea is really interesting. I never thought about that one, thanks for sharing everyone!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

aiw said:


> I didn't think most states had stand your ground laws? In any event, I'm up in Canada so both the laws and culture are *very* different where guns are concerned.


Actually 34 States do....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Greater Swiss said:


> First, can you pull the trigger when it is pointed at a living being (I suppose, if you're willing to use a knife most likely yes...), second, can you stay cool enough in the head (and maybe you can, I don't know) to aim accurately, and have the chance at a good shot in that situation without hitting your own dog?


No problem. Been There done that. But never on a dog... Frankly a dog would be the hardest animal for me to shoot. Harder than a person. 




Greater Swiss said:


> Just a thought, perhaps a starter pistol....they are LOUD, it might (and I say might) be enough to get the dogs to break for a second. That is the least harmful thing I can think of that might at least give an advantage.


The same dogs that ignore the pepper spray are likely to ignore a starter pistol.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I didn't think 'stand your ground' referred to dogs. I thought it was simpler, that the law says that if a dog is off leash and barks/growls at you, then you are in danger and can protect yourself with deadly force ... Maybe that was just in Texas. (I know most of us know better).

I believe that a small airhorn that you can easily carry in your pocket, pointed directly at a charging dog would be as effective as a starter gun, and would be comparatively safe.

For those who have to deal with aggressive dogs, we learned a release point years ago, in the inguinal area. If a dog is holding onto something or someone and you want him to release, then jam your thumb up inside the back leg, in the inguinal area where the leg connects to the belly. It doesn't injure the dog, but it does put your face close to the dog, so you want someone holding his head, just in case.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

hanksimon said:


> I didn't think 'stand your ground' referred to dogs. I thought it was simpler, that the law says that if a dog is off leash and barks/growls at you, then you are in danger and can protect yourself with deadly force ... Maybe that was just in Texas. (I know most of us know better).
> 
> I believe that a small airhorn that you can easily carry in your pocket, pointed directly at a charging dog would be as effective as a starter gun, and would be comparatively safe.
> 
> For those who have to deal with aggressive dogs, we learned a release point years ago, in the inguinal area. If a dog is holding onto something or someone and you want him to release, then jam your thumb up inside the back leg, in the inguinal area where the leg connects to the belly. It doesn't injure the dog, but it does put your face close to the dog, so you want someone holding his head, just in case.


Stand your ground doesn't. Don't need stand your ground to shoot a dog.

I brought up stand your ground way back because the first test of the law in Florida, three guys robbed an old man with his dog, he was going to let them walk. Gave up his stuff.. (Except his gun that was concealed and they did not know he had) But then they said they were going to kill his dog. He drew and shot all three. I believe killing two.

I would not have been so nice. I as soon as they tried to rob me, I would have shot them. 

Anyway, then AIW said she did not believe most states had Stand your ground laws. 

So it got brought up twice.


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## kbt_guy (Dec 2, 2012)

When we walk our dog, I carry a pistol for two legged idiots and a stun baton for four legged attackers. Mind you, our neighborhood is generally safe and all the dogs we've encountered are well controlled by their owners and also well behaved, but you never know. Occasionally we will see a stray dog in the neighborhood but so far we've not had a problem. Still, I operate under the "better to have it and not need it, than need it but not have it" theory. The pistol would be my last resort if a dog situation got out of control. I really do not want to kill someone else's dog, but if it comes down to it and given a choice of someone else's or mine, someone else loses. 

When my wife walks our dog alone, she will not carry the pistol but she will carry the stun baton.


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