# Dog Park Not Allowing Pitbulls



## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

So, there is a dog park opening in my area soon, which is cool because we don't have any 'true' dog parks here, just parks that happen to allow dogs as well, with some off leash areas.

However, this park isn't allowing bully breeds.

Since this is the first facility of it's kind in my area, I wanted to hear from people with experience with dog parks as to if this is typical or not. Yea, the argument can be made that it may be due to insurance, but there are lots of dog daycares in the area who allow all dogs on a case by case evaluation basis, and they don't seem to have an issue getting insured. The people who own the facility have refused to comment on the policy to any news agency and don't want to be talked about in relation to this in general, so no one knows for sure what the reasoning behind it is.

Many people are concerned that the government could use this as justification to create BSL, which worries me if that's true.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Will it be an open to the public dog park that is self monitored by the people using it or a private park requiring membership and has employees on site? That makes a huge difference and why daycares are much different than dog parks. At any decent daycare the dog must pass an evaluation before being allowed to attend and if their behavior changes you can and will be asked not to return. 

When I still went to dog parks we had some pits come. Some were great, some were great with some dogs and bad with others, some should never have been in the dog park. The same could be said for any breed really. I know a lot of experienced pit/bully owners simply say it's best to avoid dog parks period as there are just too many unknowns and often the pit/bully will be blamed no matter what happens.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

The park is privately owned and you have to pay a membership fee to be allowed access.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Well a private park can do whatever it wants really. The private dog park I looked into near me (45 minute drive so not really 'near' me) doesn't blanketly ban pits/bullies but they do make special note to talk to them first before coming to any of their "open house" days if you have an "aggressive breed" like pits, rotties, GSD, bullies, chows, and a handful of other breeds. They actually do a evaluation for every dog before you can become a member but a lesser screening before you can attend an open house visit. I had sent the coordinator a message asking if I should get a letter from his daycare because to the average Joe my dog is brindle therefore my dog is a pit. Basically because I had bothered to read the information they posted and responded accordingly if showed me as responsible and to come on out to the open house. Overall I liked the place but it was too much money for a park 45 minutes away I wouldn't want to drive to often enough.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

I was going to look at signing up and bringing my boy there (not necessarily all the time, but it's nice having different options and dog for him to go see). 

Once I heard that they will be blanketedly banning certain breeds (even though they will be temperament testing each individual) I have decided that I don't want to bring my dog there. I don't believe in BSL and that is too close for me. I will choose to bring my dog to other places and will keep my eyes out instead for the aggressive dogs myself.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I have heard of this elsewhere and I find it sad. I prefer judging dogs as individuals rather than breed bans.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not for BSL in any way, but I will say that I do not believe dog parks are the place for most Pit Bulls. Or heck most bully breeds. MOST of the fights I see break out involve a Pit Bull-looking dog. I no longer even attempt to bring my 17lb'er over on the bigger side (I used to because I meet up with friends who have nice big dogs, and it often wouldn't be too crowded) but then a Pit would come in and just be really pushy and starting stuff. So I just watch from the small dog side and it's always the "oh, it's ALL how you raise them!" people. Sorry. Instincts usually rule over that. Pit Bulls are pre-disposed to have the potential for DA. I would never bring my terrier into a fence full of rabbits and expect him NOT to go after them. Maybe a bad comparision and I used to feel differently but after speaking with Pit Bill owners themselves and how most responsible Pit owners will NOT bring their dogs to dog parks... I have changed my thoughts, and especially after seeing it with my own eyes many times over and over again. Again, not saying Pit Bulls are bad, I like them, and not ALL Pit Bulls are going to be DA but the chance is too high IMO. I allow my Jackson around my aunt's Pit Bull because he's 12 years old and has proven to be safe around dogs his entire life and I'm very good at reading dogs body language. But at the dog park, you just never know who these dogs are, etc.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

SDRRanger said:


> I was going to look at signing up and bringing my boy there (not necessarily all the time, but it's nice having different options and dog for him to go see).
> 
> *Once I heard that they will be blanketedly banning certain breeds (even though they will be temperament testing each individual) *I have decided that I don't want to bring my dog there. I don't believe in BSL and that is too close for me. I will choose to bring my dog to other places and will keep my eyes out instead for the aggressive dogs myself.


This is what gets me, I think. If you're going to temperament test ANYWAY, then why not just say all dogs are allowed pending temperament evaluation? At first I thought they weren't temp testing at all due to limited resources and limiting breeds to reduce liability, (play at your own risk sorta thing) but I found out that wasn't the case, so now I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning. 

I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but IF they are limiting breeds based on personal bias then that's not cool, and isn't helping the cause of the bully breeds at all. I know that technically it's their business and they can allow who they want, but it still doesn't seem right to me.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

I think it is irresponsible to take Pit Bulls to dog parks..


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I'm not for BSL in any way, but I will say that I do not believe dog parks are the place for most Pit Bulls. Or heck most bully breeds. MOST of the fights I see break out involve a Pit Bull-looking dog. I no longer even attempt to bring my 17lb'er over on the bigger side (I used to because I meet up with friends who have nice big dogs, and it often wouldn't be too crowded) but then a Pit would come in and just be really pushy and starting stuff. So I just watch from the small dog side and it's always the "oh, it's ALL how you raise them!" people. Sorry. Instincts usually rule over that. Pit Bulls are pre-disposed to have the potential for DA. I would never bring my terrier into a fence full of rabbits and expect him NOT to go after them. Maybe a bad comparision and I used to feel differently but after speaking with Pit Bill owners themselves and how most responsible Pit owners will NOT bring their dogs to dog parks... I have changed my thoughts, and especially after seeing it with my own eyes many times over and over again. Again, not saying Pit Bulls are bad, I like them, and not ALL Pit Bulls are going to be DA but the chance is too high IMO. I allow my Jackson around my aunt's Pit Bull because he's 12 years old and has proven to be safe around dogs his entire life and I'm very good at reading dogs body language. But at the dog park, you just never know who these dogs are, etc.


 I agree with this..Pit Bulls and DA go hand in hand, it's like expecting a border collie not to herd...


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

The daycare where Alannah currently goes does not allow pits. It's privately owned, you have to be a member, pay, have vet records up to date with their requirements, and they do individual temperament testing on every dog. Sadly, they had two incidents with pits in a very short period of time and the owners decided to no longer allow them. It caused a lot of uproar in the area by people who disagreed with their decision.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Sadly I think this goes back to the "Bred to be Bad " thread..... Around here there is a fair amount of BYB pitts and their temprament suffers... I do not believe in BSL either (and here they arent Banned from Anything, but are supposed to be Fixed, but obviously enforcement is lax), but I do think that due to the proliferation of irresponsible breeding, they do have more of a tendency to be DA/ dangerous(more than other breeds with BYB), I can see why a private park would ban them....


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## missPenny (Oct 2, 2012)

I have seen hundreds of sweet pittbulls at our dog beach and dog parks. I think it's ignorant too assume just because a dog is a pit, that it will cause a problem. The biggest and worst fight I've ever seen at a dog park was from a beagle. 

Don't blame the dog/the breed. Blame the people.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

A correct Pit Bull should be human friendly, and a park with leashed dogs i see no reason why a Pit Bull should be banned from it, BUT i do not believe Bully Breeds should be in dog parks, being DA is something very natural, and most APBTs are DA


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

missPenny said:


> I have seen hundreds of sweet pittbulls at our dog beach and dog parks. I think it's ignorant too assume just because a dog is a pit, that it will cause a problem. The biggest and worst fight I've ever seen at a dog park was from a beagle.
> 
> Don't blame the dog/the breed. Blame the people.


I do blame the people. People are idiots, and have ruined the rep of a fine family dog that started off as a game farm dog. We have plenty of well behaved pitts at our dog run area, and a fair amount of dogs that are run in muzzles (and they are not all pitts either-- yesterday it was a GSP and another one was some sort of smaller mix)....


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Unfortunately, I've heard a few too many stories from pit owners about pits who "turned on" at 2, 3, 5 years of age or even later. The breed was bred, and still is bred by a lot of people, to fight other dogs. It doesn't make them bad dogs, it just is what it is. 

Add to that the fear and hatred many people have of pit bulls, and you have the perfect storm if an incident occurs at a park. A beagle gets into a vicious fight at the dog park and everyone says, "Huh, a beagle? Really?" A pit bull gets into a mild snark off at a park and everyone is calling for a ban on the breed altogether, not just at parks.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

at dog parks I have actually seen (at least in my area) more adversion to herding breeds like ACDs & BC's then bullies due to their tendency to herd other dogs LOL


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Adjecyca1: Well, I guess that make me an irresponsible person then because when I bring Ranger to the dog park I try to also bring my brother's pit mix to get her out for a run. She spends the whole time complaining loudly to Ranger while she chases him, chews on him, and generally spends her entire visit within 15 feet of him. When other people's dog come over to say hi, she politely stands for them to smell her and then runs back to Ranger to play some more. 

While I agree that there are many bully breeds that do not get along with other dogs, I find the pits in HRM that go to the dog parks are well behaved. I've had more problems with huskys and JRTs (ugh, the terrors lol), If you're going to take the time to temp test the animals prior to membership, then who cares about the breed as we all know that it is based on the individual


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## swack (Nov 10, 2012)

ireth0 said:


> Many people are concerned that the government could use this as justification to create BSL, which worries me if that's true.


This makes no sense and thankfully is not how government works.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

swack said:


> This makes no sense and thankfully is not how government works.


They're concerned that, should someone want to propose BSL, they could point to the breed exclusion of the park as validation for bully breeds being dangerous dogs.


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## missPenny (Oct 2, 2012)

Adjecyca1 said:


> A correct Pit Bull should be human friendly, and a park with leashed dogs i see no reason why a Pit Bull should be banned from it, BUT i do not believe Bully Breeds should be in dog parks, being DA is something very natural, and most APBTs are DA


My bostons are part of the bully breed family. They're a joy at the park and well behaved and play nice. Does this mean they shouldn't be there just because they're in the bully family? No. It doesn't. I disagree with not allowing pities at dog parks either. As long as they're well behaved and are properly trained by responsible owners, it isn't a problem, just like any other dog.
But this is why I could never own a pit, because I could not tolerate people telling me where I could, and could not bring my dog just because of what it is.


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## lforrest0913 (Apr 17, 2013)

This thread reminds me of so many others that have the same sort of conundrum... *IF* any dog, regardless of whichever breed characteristics it has that may cause an issue in a public place with other dogs/people, has been properly socialized and trained and has a competent, watchful owner, then that dog can be perfectly lovely in any situation and should not be discriminated against. *HOWEVER*, sadly, this is not the case ~50% of the time (I just picked a random percentage... the point is, not every dog owner is as responsible as they should be).

With breeds that have fewer less-than-desirable characteristics or those characteristics are easier to train away, even some of the least attentive owners are still able to handle their dogs in public without any issues (or the dogs are small enough that they can't do too much damage).

The problem is that breeds like pit bulls require a lot more care and attention than many owners realize, so their bad traits are seen by the public more regularly, hence people wanting to ban them from public places. I totally agree that, as seen on a case-by-case basis, any breed of dog should be allowed into whatever private dog park. At a public park where people are self-policing the rules, chances are high that there are going to be dogs there that have issues that have not been addressed by their owners. By going to a public park, everyone is taking the risk that their own dog may either cause or become part of a fight, which is the sad-but-true fact of the matter.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

missPenny said:


> My bostons are part of the bully breed family. They're a joy at the park and well behaved and play nice. Does this mean they shouldn't be there just because they're in the bully family? No. It doesn't. I disagree with not allowing pities at dog parks either. As long as they're well behaved and are properly trained by responsible owners, it isn't a problem, just like any other dog.
> But this is why I could never own a pit, because I could not tolerate people telling me where I could, and could not bring my dog just because of what it is.


You have Bostons, not pit bulls. I haven't heard of entire cities or countries banning Bostons, or of shelters with policies of automatically euthing Bostons. These things happen with pit bulls. Pit bulls are banned in cities across the US, the entirety of the UK and Ireland. Many shelters in the US kill any pit bull or suspected pit bull that comes through the door. 

Owning a Boston is not like owning a pit bull.


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## missPenny (Oct 2, 2012)

Amaryllis said:


> You have Bostons, not pit bulls. I haven't heard of entire cities or countries banning Bostons, or of shelters with policies of automatically euthing Bostons. These things happen with pit bulls. Pit bulls are banned in cities across the US, the entirety of the UK and Ireland. Many shelters in the US kill any pit bull or suspected pit bull that comes through the door.
> 
> Owning a Boston is not like owning a pit bull.


Yes, I know this. However, I was replying to the post, and segment that said *I do not believe Bully Breeds should be in dog parks* which is not just saying pitbulls, and is categorizing all of those breeds.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

When I was looking up BSL, I actually saw one that had Bostons...and Pugs! I was left scratching my head wondering about what horrific incident had happened with a pug in that particular community?!

BSL sucks. However, I can see where a private dog park should be allowed to have whatever rules and restrictions they like, being a private business. For example, what if a dog park wanted to cater to only specific breeds and mixes? (I've never heard of this, but maybe in a large city somewhere?) Or, what if they decided only dogs of certain sizes were allowed? If it's a private business or club, I can see where they should be free to make their own rules...even if I think their rules are stupid.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

I am not a fan of dog parks in general.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

When I said bully breeds I was referring to the APBT,AST,AMbully, Staffie bull, American bull dog,ect.. The Boston terrier is far from the fighting dogs it was bred from, and if the Boston started a fight it wouldn't cause the damage or hysteria of many of the other bully breeds, there also probably wouldn't be an uproar stating Boston terriers should be banned I will respond with more later I am on my phone...


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

For THEIR reasons, I find it pretty unfair, as I'm guessing their reasons are similar to the reasons of other dog parks that have a "no pit bull" rule, and that's simply playing into the whole "dangerous breed" deal. Any dog that walks through those gates, regardless of breed, can be dangerous and unstable. I've lost count of how many dog fights I've witnessed in dog parks, and stopped going when my own dog was mauled by a lab. 

However...as much as it sickens me to say this, I do think it's a good idea to ban bully breeds from dog parks, simply because when a fight does happen, even if it's not the Pit Bull's fault, it's the Pit Bull that WILL be blamed for it, no matter what. The owner of the lab and his friends, a bunch of dumb college kids who were off chit chatting amongst themselves rather then watching their dog, tried to blame Charlotte for the fight that happened to her, despite the fact that it was the other dog who had gone after her by grabbing her by the neck and dragging her through the mud while she was standing there unsuspectingly. The owner also tried claiming she had bit him, when infact she hadn't. He didn't even have a mark on his hand. 

We got out of there pronto before things got worse, but it was a wake up call for me. It's not fair, but in an unfair world I've accepted that a vast majority of society is going to hate my dog for no other reason then the fact that she happens to be a Pit Bull, and they WILL use that against her. As their owners, it's up to us to use our heads and protect them. You don't bring Pit Bulls to dog parks because they are dangerous and unstable. You don't bring them because society is dangerous and unstable.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

There was an update from someone claiming to be a friend of the park owners (they themselves are still refusing to be interviewed on the topic). Allegedly the issue is with the insurance policy, not the park owners' feelings toward the bully breeds. 

The park is just a section of woods that is sectioned off with trails and etc, open 24/7 to the members, so there would be no staff on hand supervising the interactions, and thus they couldn't get an insurance policy that would cover bully breeds without paying several more thousands of dollars than they currently are.


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## EagleRiverDee (Mar 14, 2011)

My rescue dog is a lab/pit mix and she's my first experience the pitbull breed. I'd have to say if she's representative of the breed's personality, I agree that a dog park is not the place for her. She's ok in our house with our other dog, and she's ok on a leash under my direct control (but has her moments). She may even reach the point where she can play off leash with some other dogs (carefully introduced). But would I turn her loose in a dog park with everything from small dogs to large dogs and all those personalities? No freaking way. She is good with mellow dogs but if another dog lunges or snarls at her, the gloves come off and she's ready to fight right now. I'm working on it, but I don't think she would be a good candidate for a dog park and don't see us ever going to one. At the same token, I don't know that I agree with breed bans. I know, as my dog's owner, that she isn't a good candidate for the dog parks. But why should a pitbull that has never shown dog aggression be banned? Seems like it should be based more on the individual personality of the dog. Then again, that assumes that all dog owners will be responsible, and not all will. Maybe bully breed bans are more about the people than the dogs.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

EagleRiverDee said:


> My rescue dog is a lab/pit mix and she's my first experience the pitbull breed. I'd have to say if she's representative of the breed's personality, I agree that a dog park is not the place for her. She's ok in our house with our other dog, and she's ok on a leash under my direct control (but has her moments). She may even reach the point where she can play off leash with some other dogs (carefully introduced). But would I turn her loose in a dog park with everything from small dogs to large dogs and all those personalities? No freaking way. She is good with mellow dogs but if another dog lunges or snarls at her, the gloves come off and she's ready to fight right now. I'm working on it, but I don't think she would be a good candidate for a dog park and don't see us ever going to one. At the same token, I don't know that I agree with breed bans. I know, as my dog's owner, that she isn't a good candidate for the dog parks. But why should a pitbull that has never shown dog aggression be banned? Seems like it should be based more on the individual personality of the dog. *Then again, that assumes that all dog owners will be responsible, and not all will*. Maybe bully breed bans are more about the people than the dogs.


Unfortunately this is what it all comes down too. The fact is with dog parks (atleast in public dog parks) anyone can walk through the gate, and things can happen in the blink of an eye. I won't even take Ma'ii, my ACD, to dog parks for the simple fact that I've seen too many things and know the risk is just far to high. Dog fights happen at dog parks all the time, regardless of the breed, and if a bully breed happens to be involved, regardless if they were aggressive or defending themselves, that's a potential death sentence and more bad media BS.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

RCloud said:


> Unfortunately this is what it all comes down too. The fact is with dog parks (atleast in public dog parks) anyone can walk through the gate, and things can happen in the blink of an eye. I won't even take Ma'ii, my ACD, to dog parks for the simple fact that I've seen too many things and know the risk is just far to high. Dog fights happen at dog parks all the time, regardless of the breed, and if a bully breed happens to be involved, regardless if they were aggressive or defending themselves, that's a potential death sentence and more bad media BS.


Yea ACDs are terrible dog park candidates. Because even the ones that are not in the habit of starting crap, are usually more than willing to go at it should another dog get testy. When things push ACDs they push back HARDER!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I think pit bulls are great. My brother has one and she is a lovely dog; several members of this forum have gorgeous and well-behaved pits. I think that pit bulls make great companions and family pets. However, I don't think that pits belong in a dog park. It's not just the propensity for dog aggression (which often shows up once they're two years old or even older), or the fact that they often won't start a fight, but will finish it. It's the fact that if a pit gets into a fight, even if some other dog started it, and even if the pit is just defending itself, that pit is going to be blamed. If the other dog dies, that pit is going to make the news. That just adds more fuel to the "pits are killers and should be banned" fire.

If your pit has a couple of doggie friends, that's awesome. Find a big yard or an unused sports field for them to run and play in (my dogs aren't pits, but they are not dog park material, so we use a ball field for running loose). Dogs don't _need_ to go to dog parks.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Yea ACDs are terrible dog park candidates. Because even the ones that are not in the habit of starting crap, are usually more than willing to go at it should another dog get testy. When things push ACDs they push back HARDER!


Very true, but what I was getting at is I've called it quits on dog parks, period, regardless of my dogs breeds. I have no intentions of ever returning to one with my two or any future dogs (of course, I think I'm pretty much hooked on ACDs from here on out, but you get my point, lol).


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Amaryllis said:


> Add to that the fear and hatred many people have of pit bulls, and you have the perfect storm if an incident occurs at a park. A beagle gets into a vicious fight at the dog park and everyone says, "Huh, a beagle? Really?" A pit bull gets into a mild snark off at a park and everyone is calling for a ban on the breed altogether, not just at parks.



I agree! Instead of a beagle it usually a golden. A GOLDEN! being bad no way the other dog must of done something. A pitbull does something and the news media is called.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

RCloud said:


> The owner of the lab and his friends, a bunch of dumb college kids who were off chit chatting amongst themselves rather then watching their dog, tried to blame Charlotte for the fight that happened to her, despite the fact that it was the other dog who had gone after her by grabbing her by the neck and dragging her through the mud while she was standing there unsuspectingly.
> 
> You don't bring Pit Bulls to dog parks because they are dangerous and unstable. You don't bring them because society is dangerous and unstable.


UGH. We had a big chocolate that was doing a number on a little pittie looking thing this weekend. It was my fourth or fifth time going ever, and i wont be back, it just makes me too nervous.

This assh*** college guy had this big chocolate that was just being a complete butthole to all the other dogs there. take your freaking lab out of here, its completely incorrect temperment for the breed and that dog shouldnt have been in a dog park.

the pitties were angels. Its the boxers that nug cant handle, their play style is just way too rude for him. He gets flipped upside down and they keep knocking him over and hes such a LAB that he won't growl or correct anyone. So I dont think its the right place for him (even though he seems to still have fun when hes getting dragged through the dirt by boxers) and we'll stick to the people park


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

It is a private park and the owners have the right to do what they want. It is no different than a training facility. I would hate to have someone say I had to allow such and such on my own private place. 

It is too bad that these dogs have gotten a bad rap. There are alot of sweet pitties out there the public just does not see it. The news does not show the pits who does search and rescue, the therapy ones. No, for most all they see is a pitbull being loaded up into the animal control vehicle. That the pit was involved with a MAULING, not a bite but, a mauling. Typical, good news does not make the evening news only the bad.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

Vader is wonderful with other dogs. Even though he is UKC reg pit bull...I know for a fact from his blood lines he has American bully in him...which are bred to be less dog aggressive so I think I got lucky with him. 
Before we got Vader, he went to dog parks all the time and loved it. ( according to owner / inlaws ) He was even attacked by another dog and cowered away instead of fighting. however he tends to play very rough and he is very strong and so he got " kicked out " lol =p I still have been unable to find a good playmate for him. He bulldozes dogs over cause he is clumsy and heavy. He went to play with a friends dog and he jumped up and fell on her. and that was the end of it. The next play time was with a boxer...they were playing chase and he plowed into her and sent her tumbling. She wouldn't play after that but if dogs can feel bad I think he did...after eh knocked her down...he walked over to her, with his head head down...and licked her face all over. and laid down. that was his best chance of a regular play friend too >.< HE LOVES to play. He will roll onto his back against the fence on spots that the fence has a bigger gap under it and try to get the dogs next door to play lol...they just growl and bark at him <.< I can not take him to dog parks simply because he plays to rough. He looses himself in his happy moments and just goes crazy. Its funny on a little dog when it runs in crazy circles as fast as it can go but a 90lb stocky pit bull is not so good. He does wonderfully with our basset because Flash growls at him if he gets to excited lol. So Vader will try to get into a game of chase but he stopped trying to wrestle with him. He is super gentle with Flash and lets Flash bully him around. I don't know how a basset hound ended up in charge but somehow Vader is respectfully afraid of the short old dog. It is sad though that he has no true play mate. Flash is a no fun old fart.

Also if another dog STARTED a fight with him...he would be afraid he would finish it. Some people bring dogs they should not bring to the parks and it scares me even walking him in town someday a aggressive dog might charge us start something with him. and then he gets blamed because he is the pit bull. He is so strong I would not want to be a dog that started a fight with him. We have had dogs run up on us during our walks and Vader is always super sweet. but I am just thinking in my head when I see this dogs running toward me. Please don't try to fight with him cause I would not want to be in the middle of that. Every time the people come to get their loose dogs away from us...I tell them...your lucky my dog is friendly or there was not a car coming.


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## Trillian (Jan 17, 2011)

The only time my dogs go to dog parks are when they're empty and it's just me and a select few of their 'friends' (owned by my friends). In general my dogs to not start fights (with the exception of my selectively aggressive Capone) but will finish it if pushed. Too many people bring in dogs who have ZERO social manners and my dogs aren't very tolerant of overly rude dogs and just don't ENJOY being jumped, humped, pounced, barked at or any other overly rude behavior dogs do when they don't know 'dog language'. 

There are also TOO many people who bring their Resource Guarding dogs and high value items with them. And people who bring in their over the top. flipping their sh!t untrained dogs to start fights just because they're going freaking nuts. There was one man who brought a lab into the main dog park with several shepherd types and a bully. The Lab was going CRAZY, screaming, leaping, and just TOO over excited to be allowed in the park. Two GSDs and bully got overly excited as well, they redirected into aggression and were on the dog in a blink of an eye. 

All in all it's not MY dogs that I'm really worried about, it's idiots and their dogs that worry me. My biggest suggestion is to KNOW YOUR DOG. Know what they can and can NOT tolerate and do not fool yourself if/when your dog acts aggressively. Should MOST bullies be allowed in parks, NO. However I do know a few Bullies who have gone to parks since they were babies and are STILL dog friendly in their older age with non aggressive dogs.


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

> It is too bad that these dogs have gotten a bad rap. There are alot of sweet pitties out there the public just does not see it. The news does not show the pits who does search and rescue, the therapy ones. No, for most all they see is a pitbull being loaded up into the animal control vehicle. That the pit was involved with a MAULING, not a bite but, a mauling. Typical, good news does not make the evening news only the bad.


Sorry, none of that really matters. There are far too many pitts around and the glut of them are rescue dogs which usually means even with a huge amount of training, they're a mess behaviorally. To boot, their bite is so intensely strong that their ability to seriously hurt another dog or a human. Pit bulls and dobermans make up the largest number of the the dog bite related fatalities by far. Yes, in some cases that is related to bad owners and not all. Other dog breeds have bad owners as well, but end up with only a fraction of the fatalities.

That dog won't hunt to to speak. My dog plays with a number of pits, but in almost all of the cases, he's the only they'll play with, they're all nut cases and if he wasn't ok with play that rough, I'd not help them out at all.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

luv mi pets said:


> It is too bad that these dogs have gotten a bad rap. There are alot of sweet pitties out there the public just does not see it. The news does not show the pits who does search and rescue, the therapy ones. No, for most all they see is a pitbull being loaded up into the animal control vehicle. That the pit was involved with a MAULING, not a bite but, a mauling. Typical, good news does not make the evening news only the bad.


It's so true. When I first started volunteering it never occurred to me that I had come in contact with any pit bulls for a month or two. I hadn't seen any dogs that were aggressive or that made me feel uncomfortable in their behaviour at all, certainly nothing like the monsters you read about in the news. Lo and behold MANY of those sweet, loving, happy dogs had been pits. It blew my mind and totally changed my perspective. Some of those dogs had gone through such crappy circumstances in their lives, but were able to come back from it and be totally loving and sweet, butt waggling dogs. Boisterous? Sure. Lacking in manners? A lot of them, but nothing some proper training couldn't help fix. (most hadn't had any training before)

Now I'm much more at ease taking a pit or pit mix out than a lot of the other, more hyper and bouncy mixes.

It really is a shame that public perception makes owning these breeds so much more difficult than a more socially acceptable breed. I feel if that were to change, more responsible owners would consider adopting one, rather than the irresponsible ones who want to cash in on the bad image the dog currently has.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

My guess is the insurance policy they looked at getting is based out of ON which would have the breed legislation involved. The same thing is the issue with Therapeutic Paws in NS as their main office is in ON and so is their insurance. 

IF you're going to be temperament test all the dogs who apply, then why does breed matter? The $320 it will cost you a year to be a member should be more than enough to cover temp testing on renewal if you're worried they're going to change from year to year and from the people I know who are getting memberships, you wouldn't need anyone out there to monitor the animals as they will let people know if the behaviour of a certain dog changes. 

I hate blanket type refusal on anything. Yes it is a personal business so they can choose who they want to cater to if they so choose, but when you open a business to the public you need to understand you're serving the public and I can choose to take my money elsewhere if I don't agree with your practices. I haven't met many shepherds that if attacked will back down from the fight, but of course they will be monitoring them with temp testing....the same as they should be doing with the pits.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

seaboxador said:


> Sorry, none of that really matters. There are far too many pitts around and the glut of them are rescue dogs which usually means even with a huge amount of training, they're a mess behaviorally. To boot, their bite is so intensely strong that their ability to seriously hurt another dog or a human. Pit bulls and dobermans make up the largest number of the the dog bite related fatalities by far. Yes, in some cases that is related to bad owners and not all. Other dog breeds have bad owners as well, but end up with only a fraction of the fatalities.
> 
> That dog won't hunt to to speak. My dog plays with a number of pits, but in almost all of the cases, he's the only they'll play with, they're all nut cases and if he wasn't ok with play that rough, I'd not help them out at all.


Nearly every word of your post is a load of crap. The bite of an APBT is as strong as their body size and weight would suggest, meaning, it is completely proportionate to their size just like other breeds of dogs. 
I've met hundreds of rescue pit bull types (APBT/AmStaff/generic "pibble") and the vast vast majority have been highly human friendly, happy-go-lucky, stable dogs (not overly fearful, comfortable with busy streets etc) and in no way a "mess behaviorally." Are some dog reactive or aggressive? Sure, but that doesn't equal a behavioral mess either. 

Dog bite statistics by breed are horribly unreliable and even the CDC has backed away from its previous dog bite fatality statistics in regards to any breed identification or correlation. 


> the CDC (now CDC-P) had retracted that study admitting methodological problems and asserting that legislation should not be based on breed of dog: "The CDC is firmly against breed specific legislation," said Dr. Julie Gilchrist, medical epidemiologist and pediatrician with the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, Ga.


Source

Or here's another comment regarding any "danger" from pit bulls as a breed


> In an American Bar Association publication, “A Lawyer’s Guide to Dangerous Dog Issues” (Joan E. Schaffner, George Washington University School of Law) maintained “that breed discriminatory laws are unfair, inefficient and ineffective. The laws must target conduct not breed”.





> My dog plays with a number of pits, but in almost all of the cases, he's the only they'll play with, they're all nut cases and if he wasn't ok with play that rough, I'd not help them out at all.


I know plenty of pit bulls that enjoy playing with dogs of various breeds from toy poodles to shih tzus to hounds to muttly mutt dingo dogs. Supervised play with known dogs is a great thing and many pit bulls quite enjoy it and many can learn to play at the "roughness" level of their companion.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Rescued said:


> UGH. We had a big chocolate that was doing a number on a little pittie looking thing this weekend. It was my fourth or fifth time going ever, and i wont be back, it just makes me too nervous.
> 
> This assh*** college guy had this big chocolate that was just being a complete butthole to all the other dogs there. take your freaking lab out of here, its completely incorrect temperment for the breed and that dog shouldnt have been in a dog park.
> 
> the pitties were angels. Its the boxers that nug cant handle, their play style is just way too rude for him. He gets flipped upside down and they keep knocking him over and hes such a LAB that he won't growl or correct anyone. So I dont think its the right place for him (even though he seems to still have fun when hes getting dragged through the dirt by boxers) and we'll stick to the people park


We go (went) to the same dog park, and I agree, the majority of pitties there are angels. I've seen more fights between non-bully type dogs than I have bullies (and by fights, I mean scuffles. I've never seen blood drawn, though I've heard that it's happened.). My dog enjoys playing with the boxers and hasn't been harassed much by rude labs (or any rude dogs in general), so we will keep going. He has made a lot of friends at the dog park.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

seaboxador said:


> Pit bulls and dobermans make up the largest number of the the dog bite related fatalities by far. Yes, in some cases that is related to bad owners and not all. Other dog breeds have bad owners as well, but end up with only a fraction of the fatalities.


And just where are you getting your statistics for this?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Not this again... even if those bite numbers are accurate, the raw NUMBER of bites by breed is almost useless data. What matters is the rate per population of the breed. I'm not going through it all again. I just don't have the energy to type it all out. It's floating around somewhere here, I should find it some day and copy/paste it but today is not the day.

Anyway, as a private business they can do whatever they like. Personally, I think the size and layout of the park has far more to do with dog fights than the breeds of dogs or anything else. The dog park I go to regularly is something like 4-5 acres of wooded river bottom with walking trails. I've never seen or heard of a serious fight there. Instead of congregating, people hike/walk through it and it's easy to get out of sight/contact with other people and dogs at any time. Even if you should encounter someone with a dog who really shouldn't be there (and they are there) it's so easy to just get away from each other that I've never had a serious problem.

I hate, HATE the "thunderdome" style of park where it's basically a fenced open area where people and dogs congregate. There is one of those near my house that I used to go to until I realized it seemed like some conflict ALWAYS happened every single time regardless of the dogs' ages, breeds, personalities, etc. Because no one can get away from each other other than to leave the park entirely, and the dogs just turn into a giant mob while people sip coffee.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

I find that happens at one of ours here (the thunderdome congregation) because of the small space and number of people. I've never seen a bad dog fight there tough, even with the people who never move (we walk the circuit about 30 times in a trip over). Luckiy the centre is raised, so they don't get to see what's on the otherside until we walk around it.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Bite statistics depend on the report you are reading. Also some will call any shorthair dog a pit mix even if it does not resemble a pit. According to a study done by NatGeo the pitbull had the least bite force than a rott, and a wolf had a higher bite force. What you find out by creeping such things is that the first wolf after 45 minutes would not bite the contraption and the crew had to use another wolf. The second wolf only bit the thing after being cornered and poked did it bite the thing. If you believed what you read or heard on the tv and internet you would think the wolf would have bitten and killed the whole crew. Same goes for the pits. A lot of bad rap for a breed of dog that is generally a real nice dog. What I witness in the waiting room at the clinic the pits just hanging out while the boisterous lab is making sure everyone knows he is there. 

There are a lot of dog breeds that are reactive to other dogs. You can always tell when a shepherd is there. The dog bites/wounds I have seen by pits tend to be puncture wounds. Now husky/husky mixes dog bites/wounds are more tearing open damage to the other dog. 

If they are going to temperament test the dogs than all dogs should be given the chance to join. Is it a fair that the park due to insurance cost banned this breed from the park? No, it is a business and they have to look at ways to save money. Especially since they are a new business.

Is it fair that insurance companies do it? No, does this insurance company ban certain cars because of accident reports.

Again, it is sad that this dog breed is getting a bad rap when so many good pits are out there and the public does not get to see these angels of a dog.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

I personally will never bring any of my dogs to dog parks, they are not for me and not for my dogs regardless as to what breed of dog i am owning.. Pit Bulls are prone to being DA, MOST APBTS develop some type of dog aggression. Most owners and knowledgeable breed rescues will tell you these dogs do NOT belong in dog parks.Most GOOD apbt breeders will not give you a puppy if you plan on taking the dog to a dog park. I'm sorry but because someone who is irresponsible and brings their pit bull to a dog park, probably without a break stick, around owners who are probably also clueless as to how to break up a fight with a Pit Bull, And when a pit bull grabs a hold of someones yorkie, People will probably start screaming and other dogs may try to get involved, and people may do really stupid things to try and break up the fight. NOT SAYING ALL PEOPLE WHO GO TO DOG PARKS AREN"T KNOWLEDGEABLE, i am just saying most of them wouldn't know how to break up that kind of fight. So because of that Pit Bull, doing what Pit Bulls were BRED to do, MY dog will possibly get banned? And that dog will be euthanized for the owners irresponsibility, RESEARCH your dog breeds, and take proper precautions for dogs with certain breed traits.. One mistake one oops and ALL pit bull owners suffer, why risk it? 

I posted this else where on this board but check out these links about pit bulls and dog parks :
http://www.badrap.org/dog-parks
http://www.pbrc.net/socializing.html
http://www.realpitbull.com/dogparks.html
http://happypitbull.com/owners-manua...and-dog-parks/

Heres a good poem


> A Day at the Park
> 
> 
> He is just like other dogs I would always say; He loves to go to the dog park to play every day.
> ...



I think a much better alternative to dog parks are doggy playdates, where you can watch your dog closely and you have more control over the environment.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I think if owners would just open their eyes and examine their dog's temperament HONESTLY instead of with bias then there wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue at dog parks at all.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Kayota said:


> I think if owners would just open their eyes and examine their dog's temperament HONESTLY instead of with bias then there wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue at dog parks at all.


I may be wrong because like I said before, I don't have experience with actual dog parks.... but isn't temperament testing supposed to -do- just that? Evaluate if the dog is appropriate regardless of if the owner thinks they are?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Yes it is, I was thinking more along the lines of public dog parks.. We have a few questionable regulars who always make me pick up and go when I see them coming.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

I went to the dog park last night with Ranger. His collie friend was there who runs with him (and will let him know when she is done) and there were some danes and a dobie he played with. His favourite dog at the park: a 3-y- pit who ran like the wind, played as hard as Ranger wanted to and left the little and nervous dogs alone. She was probably the best behaved dog at the park. I've never had a problem at the dog park with a pit (actually, the only 'bad' dogs I've seen were a JRT, a lab and a frenchie). 

I know this is an argument that will have people strongly on each side, but for me and my dogs I will continue to keep my eyes open and go to the dog parks were I can bring my brother's dog to play too.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Honestly I think publicity-wise the owners would have been better off to have come out and said from the beginning that they couldn't afford an insurance policy that included the bully breeds, and that's why they aren't allowed. Instead, they have been very... I don't know, like they're trying to avoid the subject which makes people think they have personal motives for the ban.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

I would have understood that When I called Therapeutic Paws to sign up for their fall therapy dog evaluation, they said right off the get go that unfortunately they cannot allow pitbull and pitbull type into the organization due to their insurance being located in ON which has the breed ban. They even gave me the name of another group that I could contact if I didn't agree with the situation. Said that if the opportunity ever came up to have pits in their group they would.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

SDRRanger said:


> I would have understood that When I called Therapeutic Paws to sign up for their fall therapy dog evaluation, they said right off the get go that unfortunately they cannot allow pitbull and pitbull type into the organization due to their insurance being located in ON which has the breed ban. They even gave me the name of another group that I could contact if I didn't agree with the situation. Said that if the opportunity ever came up to have pits in their group they would.


Seriously! I heard this one reporter woman on the radio the other day talking about how it made sense that they were banned because they're so aggressive always and people who say they make good family dogs are waiting for their kids to get mauled and pits bit more than any other breed, and when they get into a scuffle they're in it till the end and eventually they all will snap and turn on their owners etc and etc. All the anti-pit propaganda you could think of. She was seriously making my blood boil. If they had said it was due to an insurance issue and they would otherwise have allowed the breeds, she would have had no platform to make those ridiculous claims.

-That- is why it's different than a park only allowing... I dunno, say only allowing Dalmatians and Springer Spaniels. People wouldn't presume they're only allowing Dalmatians and Springers because all other dogs are too dangerous.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Adjecyca1 said:


> I posted this else where on this board but check out these links about pit bulls and dog parks :
> http://www.badrap.org/dog-parks
> http://www.pbrc.net/socializing.html
> http://www.realpitbull.com/dogparks.html
> http://happypitbull.com/owners-manual/basic-care/leashes-and-dog-parks/


And all of those are from VERY pro-pit bull sites that work to dispel myths about the breed. Responsible breeders and owners, like you said, realize that pits and dog parks are not a good combination, regardless of the temperament of the individual dog. 

I definitely hate BSL and think it's useless, and all of the pits I've met have been lovely (although even my brother's sweet little pit, who is great with my dogs, can get testy with strange small dogs). However, I am not upset about them being disallowed in dog parks. If I had a pit, I'd find it some dog friends with a similar play style and do "play dates" in someone's yard or in an unused sports field.


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## BlueDiamond (Mar 18, 2013)

I have been taking my pup to a dog park, and she loves it. She loves everyone and everything, and everyone loves her. She is almost 6 months old now. She does great. She doesnt nip or get over ruly in other dogs faces, like some other dogs do, that is how fights start. If a dog starts to get unruly with her, like trying to pin her down, she runs right to me. She runs with the active dogs, calms down with the older calm dogs, and lays down for the smaller dogs to climb on. Shes just a perfect little pit, just like our other dogs. Its the reason why my family will probably only ever get pits, because we believe they are the best family dogs for us. They are all raised with other dogs, kids, babies, other animals, and A LOT of training. Our dogs are in training pretty much constantly.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

BlueDiamond said:


> I have been taking my pup to a dog park, and she loves it. She loves everyone and everything, and everyone loves her. She is almost 6 months old now. She does great. She doesnt nip or get over ruly in other dogs faces, like some other dogs do, that is how fights start. If a dog starts to get unruly with her, like trying to pin her down, she runs right to me. She runs with the active dogs, calms down with the older calm dogs, and lays down for the smaller dogs to climb on. Shes just a perfect little pit, just like our other dogs. Its the reason why my family will probably only ever get pits, because we believe they are the best family dogs for us. They are all raised with other dogs, kids, babies, other animals, and A LOT of training. Our dogs are in training pretty much constantly.


FIRST i want to say she is 6 months old! if she were to be DA it very well may be years until she turns "on", She's a puppy, most pit bull puppies like other dogs until they mature. I'm happy all your past dogs weren't DA but you are pushing your luck, part of being a good owner is accepting your breeds history! Accepting that your dog, is in fact a dog, with certain breed traits bred into it..Answer this do you have a break stick with you when you go to the dog part, do you know how to break up a fight?


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## BlueDiamond (Mar 18, 2013)

Yea I know she is still a pup and time will tell if she will play well with others when she matures. Im and experienced dog owner and trainer. This is our 5th pit, and they are all great and dont fight. I only had 1 problem dog, and it was a german sheppard, and he still had a great life with us. I know how to handle my dogs. Our dogs dont fight because we dont let it get to that point. Theyre very socialized obedient dogs. I think nowadays a lot are bred for house pets and some of the breed is getting farther and farther away from the "working" bloodlines. You can accuse me of "pushing my luck", and I can accuse you of not properly socializing and training your dog. Id rather show what a great example my dogs are, if you need some training technique tips, just pm me.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

BlueDiamond said:


> Yea I know she is still a pup and time will tell if she will play well with others when she matures. Im and experienced dog owner and trainer. This is our 5th pit, and they are all great and dont fight. I only had 1 problem dog, and it was a german sheppard, and he still had a great life with us. I know how to handle my dogs. Our dogs dont fight because we dont let it get to that point. Theyre very socialized obedient dogs. I think nowadays a lot are bred for house pets and some of the breed is getting farther and farther away from the "working" bloodlines. You can accuse me of "pushing my luck", and I can accuse you of not properly socializing and training your dog. Id rather show what a great example my dogs are, if you need some training technique tips, just pm me.


 LMAO i train and socialize my dog very well thank you very much you don't know me or my dogs, I do socialize my dog i just don't do it by bringing it a park with 20+ off leash uncontrolled other dogs with owners who may or may not be paying attention to them. I will not set my dog up for failure by bringing them to a dog park, i will not risk injury, illness, or parasites in my dog by going to dog parks, this does NOT mean i do not train or socialize my dogs. MY dogs are trained very well because that is what i expect of them, you can't TRAIN OUT DA! Just like you can't train the prey drive out of a sight hound. YOU CAN MANAGE IT, my dog Scruffy isn't a fan of a lot of other dogs, but i expect her to behave around them, she behaves better walking on leash past other dogs better than most dog friendly dogs i see, my dog was trained in front of a lot of distractions. We would practice our training at work with free roaming cats (she has a very high prey drive) and other leashed dogs, and she can focus and behave THAT is good training, just because a dog likes other dogs doesn't mean it's trained well.I've seen plenty of unruly rude dogs who LOVE other dogs. I've worked at more than one vets office and dog training facilities and thankfully my bosses were kind enough to allow me to bring my dogs and work on their training. My dog selective dog was in a play with over 300 people in the audience, and her training needed to be ROCK SOLID for that.My dog is dog selective and she has a circle of doggy friends that she likes, her and my other dog use to LOVE each other, they would do everything and everything together, sleep together, play together, whine when they were separated ect..They were best friends until they decided they weren't. They are kept separate now. I am not comfortable with dog parks, when i socialize my dogs i socialize them with dogs i know and owners i know in a situation i can control, with a break stick handy if needed.

Yes Mutt Pit bull type dogs, Amstaff or Ambullies *MAY* be less likely to be dog aggressive than a well bred APBT, but that does not mean it will not turn on or it will not be DA because the dogs who made up that breed or mix had the genes for it. Owning 5 "Pit Bull" type dogs IDK if you have a pedigree on your dogs doesn't make you an expert on these dogs by FAR, i've grown up with these dogs, and now that i am choosing to get a full bred apbt, i have invested the last few years of my life learning as much as i can about these dogs and other breeds i am interested in owning. Seriously don't you think there is a GOOD reason most of our knowledgeable breed advocates and breeders SAY NO TO DOG PARKS?!? I don't understand why this is such a hard thing for people to accept, it's not like the Pit Bull is the only breed that is prone to being DA, there are plenty of breeds people should take extra precautions with when it comes to other dogs

And people who are breeding "House pet pit bulls" most likely are back yard breeders who aren't breeding real APBT at all... NO good breeder breeds dogs that are pet quality especially pit bulls, there are enough pet quality bully breeds in shelters as it is...


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

My cousin's pit bull played out that poem, sadly enough, and killed a large dog. 

The last time I was at the dog park years ago with my foster dog a pit bull and a mastiff decided to go at it. The thing with pit bulls is that they are GOOD fighters when they decide to fight. I don't do dog parks at all and never will but I sure as heck wouldn't bring a pit bull to one.


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## EagleRiverDee (Mar 14, 2011)

I'll bite. What's a "break stick"? I already can tell it's some sort of tool to break up a dog fight, but I've never heard of it.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

EagleRiverDee said:


> I'll bite. What's a "break stick"? I already can tell it's some sort of tool to break up a dog fight, but I've never heard of it.


It's a tool that's good for breaking up fights between pit bulls, amstaffs, ambullies, ect.. http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html 
They are not meant to be used on other dogs, and they work when breaking up a fight with an APBT better than most other methods, that work on other dogs, but may not work for these dogs...It can break up a fight very quickly once the pit bull has a hold, and can save a life


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Break Stick information: http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

If they are going to ban breeds, then shouldn't they do a wider breed selection? Cane Corsos, rotties, dobermans, mastiffs, chows, shar peis and the like. I'm sure that if ANY of those breeds are pushed to their limits they will inflict as much (if not more damage) than a pitbull and personally I've seen a lot of DA (and people aggressive) chows in my life time. 

While they're at it, they should ban JRTs. Those little buggers can have more fury than a pitbull and they NEVER back down.

My issue with the whole thing is that they are blanketedly stating that the pitbull and pitbull types are the dbanned breed. Any dog has the ability to be DA, but they're allowing those breeds so long as they pass the temperament testing. 

Now of course, this has nothing to do with it if they come out and states it is an insurance issue instead of keeping mum.


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## EagleRiverDee (Mar 14, 2011)

Thank you both for the link on break sticks.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

BlueDiamond said:


> Yea I know she is still a pup and time will tell if she will play well with others when she matures. Im and experienced dog owner and trainer. This is our 5th pit, and they are all great and dont fight. I only had 1 problem dog, and it was a german sheppard, and he still had a great life with us. I know how to handle my dogs. Our dogs dont fight because we dont let it get to that point. Theyre very socialized obedient dogs. I think nowadays a lot are bred for house pets and some of the breed is getting farther and farther away from the "working" bloodlines. You can accuse me of "pushing my luck", and I can accuse you of not properly socializing and training your dog. Id rather show what a great example my dogs are, if you need some training technique tips, just pm me.


I had this EXACT same attitude right before the incident with Charlotte happened. I use to be a huge dog park advocate, and brought my Pit Bull to the park nearly everyday for 2 years, until she was attacked by an aggressive Lab and a HUGE fight erupted that she ultimately won. The problem is, even if your dogs don't turn out DA, by taking ANY dog to the dog park, you run a very high risk of a fight breaking out, because fights happen at dog parks, regardless of breed. If your dog somehow ends up in one of these fights, even if she didn't start it and is just defending herself, she will still end up being the bad guy in the eyes of everyone else. It's not fair, but if she hurts another dog in the process of fighting back, even if it's not her fault, it's her that will ultimately pay the price. You could face a massive fine and your dog could be taken away and killed. This isn't an exaggeration, it's the truth. Pit Bulls are HATED and feared by society to the point where it defies logic and common sense.

And even if you paid no legal repercussions, it can effect your dog in other negative ways. Charlotte now has fear aggression as the result of that dog park fight, where as before she didn't even bat an eye at other dogs. We've been working on it since she was diagnosed, and she's made steps, but she's still sketchy, and I constantly have to be aware of loose dogs, should one run up to her while out in public.

It's NOT worth it!


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Personally, I would not take any of my dogs, different breeds, to any dog parks. I state this because my reason is more of an ever-excusing owners issue than a dog breed issue. 
Another thing is that if I was to bring in my 150 dog and a small dog came up to start a fight and my big dog had enough and took care of the problem. My dog would be blamed on the size factor. Dog parks will not get my money to join them!

I always think about if it was mandatory that all dog bites no matter how severe had to be reported and people abided by such rule what breed would then be at the top. My vote would be Chihuahuas. The problem is most dog bites do not get reported.


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

> I know plenty of pit bulls that enjoy playing with dogs of various breeds from toy poodles to shih tzus to hounds to muttly mutt dingo dogs. Supervised play with known dogs is a great thing and many pit bulls quite enjoy it and many can learn to play at the "roughness" level of their companion./QUOTE]
> 
> No sorry, it's who you is emotionally attached and not logical here. Want more statistics? Try this. In case you want to whine about the sources, they're all fully documented. They even made a pretty little pie graph. As you can see, the statistics go completely against what you say.
> 
> ...


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Dogsbite.org is full of crap. Please find statistics from somewhere else.

Dog bite statistics are useless for a few reasons, though. I'll just copy/paste one of my posts from another thread:

Dog bite statistics are notoriously unreliable, and they don't take into account the number of the breed out there. Let's say that I interact with 1000 pit bulls and 10 of them bite me, and I interact with 160 poodles and 6 bite me. You could look at that and say, well, pits are definitely more dangerous, because Cran got bitten by almost twice as many pits as poodles! But only 1% of pits bit me, while 4% of poodles bit me.

Also, as mentioned, two things happen regarding the media: Often, only pit bull attacks are widely reported, while attacks by other breeds only get mentioned in the local paper (if at all), and also, many breeds are misidentified as pits.

http://www.nopitbullbans.com/about-cdc-bite-stats/
http://www.badrap.org/monster-myths
http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

(Also, no emotion playing into my view on the matter. I think pits are fine, and my brother's pit is a sweet dog, but they aren't a breed that I'd mesh well with as an owner. I'll never own one.)


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

seaboxador said:


> No sorry, it's who you is emotionally attached and not logical here. Want more statistics? Try this. In case you want to whine about the sources, they're all fully documented. They even made a pretty little pie graph. As you can see, the statistics go completely against what you say.
> 
> http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/8-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf
> http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatality-citations.php
> ...


Not all sources are created equal. I presented information from the Centers for Disease Control, Justice Department, etc; I can source the AVMA, NY Surpreme Court and other reputable entities in support of my "non-logical" claim that pit bulls by nature are no more human aggressive than the "average" dog (and data indicates much LESS human aggressive than many common and well loved breeds)
Once again, you cite the notoriously biased dogbites.org. That entire site is an emotional response.


As for this:


> It's nice that you try to do things to rescue pit bulls, but perhaps you should be doing more work to discourage people from breeding them.


You know what they say about assumptions right? Since you don't know me or the rescue or what work is getting done, then I suggest you avoid snap judgments so you can avoid sounding like an arse.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

seaboxador said:


> > I know plenty of pit bulls that enjoy playing with dogs of various breeds from toy poodles to shih tzus to hounds to muttly mutt dingo dogs. Supervised play with known dogs is a great thing and many pit bulls quite enjoy it and many can learn to play at the "roughness" level of their companion./QUOTE]
> >
> > No sorry, it's who you is emotionally attached and not logical here. Want more statistics? Try this. In case you want to whine about the sources, they're all fully documented. They even made a pretty little pie graph. As you can see, the statistics go completely against what you say.
> >
> ...


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

> Not all sources are created equal. I presented information from the Centers for Disease Control, Justice Department, etc; I can source the AVMA, NY Surpreme Court and other reputable entities in support of my "non-logical" claim that pit bulls by nature are no more human aggressive than the "average" dog (and data indicates much LESS human aggressive than many common and well loved breeds)
> Once again, you cite the notoriously biased dogbites.org. That entire site is an emotional response.


It's funny how you post things from pit bull associations as fact yet you criticize other sources. Quite frankly, I'd buy your arguments except, since you're biased and close minded on the issue, you didn't bother reading the citations from which they put together their information. Let me give you an except.

Betty Todd
Associated Press, "Dog mauls woman to death in Greenwood County home," Charlotte Observer, January 9, 2013 (www.charlotteobserver.com)
Matt Bruce, "Woman killed in pit bull attack," Index-Journal, January 9, 2013 (www.indexjournal.com)
"Deputies: SC woman killed by dog while babysitting," WISTV.com, January 9, 2013 (www.wistv.com)
"Deputies: Grandmother killed by dog while babysitting," WYFF4.com, January 9, 2013 (www.wyff4.com)
Brian King, "More details released in dog mauling incident," GwdToday.com, January 9, 2013 (www.gwdtoday.com)
Snejana Farberov, "Grandmother of 13 mauled to death by pet pit bull while babysitting three of her young grandkids who witnessed bloody attack," MailOnline, January 10, 2013 (www.dailymail.com)
Obituary, "Betty Anne Chapman Todd," Legacy.com, January 10, 2013 (www.legacy.com)
Brian King, "Pit bulls in recent attacks both had history of violence," GwdToday.com, January 17, 2013 (www.gwdtoday.com)
Christian Gormanous
Scott Engle, "4-Year-Old Boy Dies After Dog Attack When Boy Climbs Over Fence," Montgomery County Police Reporter, January 19, 2013 (www.montgomerycountypolicereporter.com)
"Pit bull kills Conroe-area boy who climbed fence into neighbor’s yard," YouHoustonNews.com, January 19, 2013 (yourhoustonnews.com)
Sonia Azad, "Boy, 4, killed by dog in Conroe," KTRK-TV, January 20, 2013 (abclocal.go.com)
Doug Miller, "4-year-old dies after pit bull attack in Conroe," KHOU11, January 20, 2013 (www.khou.com)
"4-year-old killed in pit bull attack," Click2Houston.com, January 20, 2013 (www.click2houston.com)
Minh Dam, "Dog fatally mauls 4-year-old near Conroe," Houston Chronicle, January 20, 2013 (www.chron.com)
Nick Dutton, "Sister tries to save 4-year-old as neighbor’s pit bull attacks," WTVR.com, January 21, 2013 (www.wtvr.com)
"Chained Pit Bull Kills 4-Year-Old Near Houston," KEYETV, January 21, 2013 (www.keyetv.com)
Scott Engle, "Fund Set Up to Assist Family with Funeral of Boy Attacked by Dog," Montgomery County Police Reporter, January 21, 2013 (www.montgomerycountypolicereporter.com)
Beth Stebner, "Boy, 4, fatally mauled by his neighbor's pit bull after he climbed over chain link fence and into the dog's reach," Mail Online, January 21, 2013 (dailymail.com)

So either those various news organizations are all co-conspirators in some anti-pit bull conspiracy from which they would gain nothing or your argument is a load of what I just picked up off of the curb.

I'm neither a pit bull lover, like you, nor a pit bull hater. I'm around quite a few of them and pet them on a regular basis. That said, the DATA says that they and Rottweilers are far more likely to be involved in a very dangerous situation than any other breed.

Feel free to actually read what I post next time.



> Dogsbite.org is a propaganda site run by a known Pit Bull hater who has nothing better to do with her life then lie and manipulate people.


It very well mgiht be, but he or she has backed up their assertions rather well. By the way, it's than, not then.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

You do realize a boxer/lab mix is probably going to get labelled as a 'pit bull' by the media, right?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

And any brindle dog, and there was an instance I read about where a sheltie was called a pit bull and it had to be changed in the article, and many lab or pointer mixes, any rottie mixes without the black and tan coloring, bull terriers, "red-nosed" dogs, many shar-pei or chow mixes, even alaskan huskies... the list goes on...


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

Love how this thread went from Pit Bulls and dog parks to listing dog attack fatalities.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Also, how are "Centers for Disease Control, Justice Department, etc; I can source the AVMA, NY Surpreme Court" pit bull associations?

The media reports what sells. Right now because of faulted public perception, violent killer pit bulls sell.

Also, speaking of reading posts, I'd like to refer you back to the one explaining how the statistics on Dogsbite.org are flawed independently from the owner's views.

Edit* Also, no one is saying pits are darling little angels that would never hurt anything ever in the world. We -are- however saying that they are no more inherently human aggressive than any other breed. Actually, they tend to be less so, because that's what they were bred to be.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> You do realize a boxer/lab mix is probably going to get labelled as a 'pit bull' by the media, right?


Spot the APBT quiz:











This may also help explain some of the "statistics" sourced directly from media reports


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

*Snerk* People can't identify breeds. 'That's not a border collie!' might be kind of interesting for people, but my response there fits here.

This is my, according to most of the public we run into, miniature pit. 










Seriously.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

seaboxador said:


> It very well mgiht be, but he or she has backed up their assertions rather well. *By the way, it's than, not then.*


Correcting my spelling error doesn't make my point any less valid. Nice try though.

And no she doesn't. Her assertions have been proven flawed and debunked MANY, many times. Maybe you should read the links I posted rather then avoiding the argument by attacking people's spelling mistakes.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

seaboxador said:


> It very well mgiht be, but he or she has backed up their assertions rather well. By the way, it's than, not then.


By the way, it's might, not mgiht. 

Also, I fail to understand how anyone can use a news report as a credible source. By that reasoning, I could find support for.... well, just about anything.

Being on the news doesn't make it true.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

I am a bit digusting with this i don't believe this breed should be treated this way at all. I don't care if public or private wrong is wrong. Anyways bully breeds are very caring breeds i wouldn't call them "bully breeds" in else you mean they just bully by the general public than i agree.

Dog park are alright but any dog can have issues with other dogs. I had to take our old dog harley out cause another dog was a brat and its hard to get along with that "dog"


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Shell said:


>


I laughed pretty hard!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

had to add this, as it makes a nice thinking point.

from the NCRC http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit Bull Placebo.pdf



> Fact: In 2002 over 420 children were killed as the direct result of physical abuse by a
> parent or a guardian (this number does not include death from neglect).
> 
> Fact: The majority of physical abuse deaths of children were inflicted by fathers or
> ...


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

rescued said:


> had to add this, as it makes a nice thinking point.
> 
> From the ncrc http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_pit bull placebo.pdf
> 
> ...


ding ding ding


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

hahaha I guess nobody can argue that point?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Rescued said:


> had to add this, as it makes a nice thinking point.
> 
> from the NCRC http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit Bull Placebo.pdf
> 
> ...



Actually, sadly, I'd argue that the first is more reasonable or accurate. 

Visual identification of a dog's breed is highly inaccurate and statistically suspect. So their "fact" may or may not be actual fact.

The identification of the humans who inflict physical abuse is pretty accurate. It is horrible to think, but children are more at risk from the male of the household, typically an unrelated male such as a step-father or live-in boyfriend of the mother, than they are from so-called "stranger danger" or other individual. 

Accidental death is another thing. Large dogs and very small children can be a dangerous combination that has nothing to do with the aggression level of a dog. I can think of a case about a year ago of a 3-month old infant left alone with a large dog (unknown breed) who died. By all appearances, the dog tried to drag the child like she/he would drag a puppy- by the neck. The dog did NOT attack the child, the dog was NOT aggressive. The parents failed to supervise the two together and the child suffered the tragic consequences. 
Whereas I'd argue that child abuse deaths at the hands of an adult human are knowing, willful actions and do in fact relate to the human's capacity for aggression.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Interesting point. The NCRC did mention that this example only worked for that year, and was untrue for the three years prior (in reference to the breed ID).

If I was going to believe anyones statements about breed though, it would be the NCRC.


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## AmandaN (Apr 15, 2013)

I don't personally think Pit Bulls should be allowed at dog parks and other off leash dog areas. A properly bred Pit, as mentioned, should be human friendly, but not dog safe. It's not a fault in the standard, but human aggression is.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

AmandaN said:


> I don't personally think Pit Bulls should be allowed at dog parks and other off leash dog areas. A properly bred Pit, as mentioned, should be human friendly, but not dog safe. It's not a fault in the standard, but human aggression is.



Than there no point of a dog park. your going to judge base of the look of a breeed is like a judge base off a person skin color the only difference is the fact these are animals and not people.


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## AmandaN (Apr 15, 2013)

Umpire said:


> Than there no point of a dog park. your going to judge base of the look of a breeed is like a judge base off a person skin color the only difference is the fact these are animals and not people.


I'm actually judging the dog's purpose, not looks. And there is a difference. We, humans, aren't bred for centuries for a purpose that is deadly. I love pitties, but I don't think it's safe to let them loose around other dogs, any more than I think it's safe to let a hound off around small animals.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

AmandaN said:


> I'm actually judging the *dog's purpose,* not looks. And there is a difference. We, humans, aren't bred for centuries for a purpose that is deadly. I love pitties, but I don't think it's safe to let them loose around other dogs, any more than I think it's safe to let a hound off around small animals.



Thee dog purpose is to be with us so yes that is still wrong. Pitbulls are not more dangerous than any other dog breed get that through your think skull. I am sick and tired of this double standard. humans are not deadly really they are not... than why are some murders... why did someone kill innocent kids in Boston marathon 911 attacks you act like pitbulls are only for one purpose and that is not even remotely true.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Umpire said:


> Thee dog purpose is to be with us so yes that is still wrong. Pitbulls are not more dangerous than any other dog breed get that through your think skull. I am sick and tired of this double standard. humans are not deadly really they are not... than why are some murders... why did someone kill innocent kids in Boston marathon 911 attacks you act like pitbulls are only for one purpose and that is not even remotely true.


We aren't saying pit bulls are more dangerous to humans, than other dogs. But are they potentially more dangerous to other animals? Yes, Pit Bulls along with a variety of other breeds are genetically predisposed to animal aggression..


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

Adjecyca1 said:


> We aren't saying pit bulls are more dangerous to humans, than other dogs. But are they potentially more dangerous to other animals? Yes, Pit Bulls along with a variety of other breeds are genetically predisposed to animal aggression..


No there not i am sick of this double standard believe what you want since you are going to do that but i can tell you write now you are dead wrong. Pitbulls are not more dangerous than any other breed my statement stands and many groups do not support limiting "bread" so therefore you can think what you want its a shame we have people who think like this. I stand by my comment.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I take Pip to the dog park several times a week. I'm the most irresponsible long-haired pit bull owner EVER.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

sassafras said:


> I take Pip to the dog park several times a week. I'm the most irresponsible long-haired pit bull owner EVER.


 I don't agree with you, I think you are a repsonbile owner and i think it so unfair these dogs are laebl like that. Its up to the owner to know if any bread can handle a dog park.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Umpire said:


> No there not i am sick of this double standard believe what you want since you are going to do that but i can tell you write now you are dead wrong. Pitbulls are not more dangerous than any other breed my statement stands and many groups do not support limiting "bread" so therefore you can think what you want its a shame we have people who think like this. I stand by my comment.


It isn't a double standard. Again i am not saying pit bulls are more dangerous than other breeds. LIKE other breeds pit bulls are predisposed to certain breed traits. Pit Bulls exist because of dog fighting, they were bred to fight for many many years before becoming house pets. Just like a sighthound was bred to chase hare. So because they were bred for many years for those purposes, they have certain breed TRAITS. Pit Bulls have a high probability for being dog aggressive, while a sighthound has a high probability to chase and kill small animals like a rabbit..

MOST knowledgeable pit bull savvy groups DO NOT recommend taking your pit bull to a dog park, and most responsible breeders will not give you a puppy if you plan on taking it to a dog park.. Go read my posts earlier in this thread and check out the links.. All of those articles were written by people whose heart and soul belongs to the pit bull,people who want us to be responsible with these dogs, and not give anyone an excuse to propose BSL.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

Adjecyca1 said:


> It isn't a double standard. Again i am not saying pit bulls are more dangerous than other breeds. LIKE other breeds pit bulls are predisposed to certain breed traits. Pit Bulls exist because of dog fighting, they were bred to fight for many many years before becoming house pets. Just like a sighthound was bred to chase hare. So because they were bred for many years for those purposes, they have certain breed TRAITS. Pit Bulls have a high probability for being dog aggressive, while a sighthound has a high probability to chase and kill small animals like a rabbit..
> 
> 
> MOST knowledgeable pit bull savvy groups DO NOT recommend taking your pit bull to a dog park, and most responsible breeders will not give you a puppy if you plan on taking it to a dog park.. Go read my posts earlier in this thread and check out the links.. All of those articles were written by people whose heart and soul belongs to the pit bull,people who want us to be responsible with these dogs, and not give anyone an excuse to propose BSL.



When you state there more aggersive that a double standard any dog can be more aggesive than other dogs.
For instancts my Brother has a mix boxer/pitbull and comes over to play with a yellow lab who bites his face etc... Charley allows him to do it. No reaction no care in the world he a happy dog. "high probalility of being aggressive" no they don't in else your a terrible owner. Yes its a double standard, I cannot accpet anything else from people on these message board should defend pitbulls its a shame.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Umpire said:


> When you state there more aggersive that a double standard any dog can be more aggesive than other dogs.
> For instancts my Brother has a mix boxer/pitbull and comes over to play with a yellow lab who bites his face etc... Charley allows him to do it. No reaction no care in the world he a happy dog. "high probalility of being aggressive" no they don't in else your a terrible owner. Yes its a double standard, I cannot accpet anything else from people on these message board should defend pitbulls its a shame.


You aren't reading my statements correctly, i am defending pit bulls AND being a responsible pit bull owner by accepting my dogs history and what it was bred to do, and exposing him to situations he can handle and not expecting him to be something he is not. I'm not saying Pit bulls are overly aggressive hell raisers. MANY BREEDS BESIDES PIT BULLS ARE PRONE TO ANIMAL AGGRESSION!!! *MANY BREEDS!* and people who own those breeds should take certain precautions when exposing those dogs to other animals. To think otherwise is humanizing your dog,ignoring your dogs history, and is doing a HUGE disservice to the breed...PLEASE go back and read my earlier comments and check out the links i posted.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

When a sighthound kills a small dog due to predatory drift, no one starts calling for citywide bans on sighthounds or calls for Animal Control to euthanize all sighthounds after their stray hold is up. 
When a dog-aggressive Golden Retriever kills another dog in a dog fight, no one starts calling for citywide bans on retrievers or calls for Animal Control to euthanize all retrievers after their stray hold is up. 
When a pit bull type dog kills a dog for any reason (even if the other dog was the aggressor), it can have a huge negative impact on the lives of all pit bull types in the area and their owners. People really do call for pit bull bans and restrictions after such incidents. 

Many responsible pit bull owners know that regardless of how dog-friendly their individual dog is, that there is an inherent additional risk to both their dog and the breed as a whole should anything go wrong and it is far safer and more secure to avoid the free-for-all dog parks, especially the "thunderdome" style.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Umpire said:


> I don't agree with you, I think you are a repsonbile owner and i think it so unfair these dogs are laebl like that. Its up to the owner to know if any bread can handle a dog park.


I actually don't think I'm being irresponsible, either. My point is this: An owner of ANY dog has a responsibility to get to know how their dog acts around other dogs before going to a dog park. And an owner of a dog breed that is potentially DA absolutely has a bigger responsibility in this regard... it doesn't do a breed any favors to turn a blind eye to their potential to be DA. 

However, having said that I also don't think it does a breed any favors to make blanket statements about them. I personally don't agree that a mature, stable _individual_ dog who has demonstrated no signs of DA in interactions and play with smaller, more controlled groups of dogs should necessarily be excluded from an appropriate style of dog park (eg not the "thunderdome" style which I don't like for any breed, anyway) just because of its breed. I know my opinion differs from a lot of people's, and honestly I'm ok with that. 

My eight year old bully mix, who has been going to dog parks for most of his life, greets strange dogs appropriately and then rarely wants to interact with them beyond that. I'm confident he's not going to "turn on" any time soon... or really ever. My five year old hound mix can be a terrible bully to other dogs and she can't go to dog parks, period. But I'm not about to say that hounds don't belong at dog parks because they're bullies. What I DO say is that EVERY dog owner should be aware of their dog's potential breed traits, yes, but what is more important to me is how their individual dog interacts with other dogs regardless of its breed.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Shell said:


> When a sighthound kills a small dog due to predatory drift, no one starts calling for citywide bans on sighthounds or calls for Animal Control to euthanize all sighthounds after their stray hold is up.
> When a dog-aggressive Golden Retriever kills another dog in a dog fight, no one starts calling for citywide bans on retrievers or calls for Animal Control to euthanize all retrievers after their stray hold is up.
> When a pit bull type dog kills a dog for any reason (even if the other dog was the aggressor), it can have a huge negative impact on the lives of all pit bull types in the area and their owners. People really do call for pit bull bans and restrictions after such incidents.
> 
> Many responsible pit bull owners know that regardless of how dog-friendly their individual dog is, that there is an inherent additional risk to both their dog and the breed as a whole should anything go wrong and it is far safer and more secure to avoid the free-for-all dog parks, especially the "thunderdome" style.


I do get your point, but at the same time... when even pit bull owners won't bring a stable, dog-park appropriate pit bull to an appropriate dog park, I think THAT also fuels BSL. There's an "OMG even the pit owners think the dogs aren't safe!!!!" message there that I think can be as harmful as any actual incident, and I don't think John Q. BSL is going to see it as people being responsible but rather people being afraid of their own dogs. Stable dogs acting appropriately at dog parks do more to help than what can be seen as keeping the breed "hidden away," although... it's kind of danged if you do, danged if you don't. Again, I understand my position is against the grain, but... oh well. I've got my flame retardant suit on today.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

Adjecyca1 said:


> You aren't reading my statements correctly, i am defending pit bulls AND being a responsible pit bull owner by accepting* my dogs history and what it was bred to do*, and exposing him to situations he can handle and not expecting him to be something he is not. I'm not saying Pit bulls are overly aggressive hell raisers. MANY BREEDS BESIDES PIT BULLS ARE PRONE TO ANIMAL AGGRESSION!!! *MANY BREEDS!* and people who own those breeds should take certain precautions when exposing those dogs to other animals. To think otherwise is humanizing your dog,ignoring your dogs history, and is doing a HUGE disservice to the breed...PLEASE go back and read my earlier comments and check out the links i posted.


i have nothing more to speak or say to you as i stated before believe what you want but what your doing is wrong.If you are defending pitbulls you doing terrible job.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

sassafras said:


> *I actually don't think I'm being irresponsible*, either. My point is this: An owner of ANY dog has a responsibility to get to know how their dog acts around other dogs before going to a dog park. And an owner of a dog breed that is potentially DA absolutely has a bigger responsibility in this regard... it doesn't do a breed any favors to turn a blind eye to their potential to be DA.
> 
> However, having said that I also don't think it does a breed any favors to make blanket statements about them. I personally don't agree that a mature, stable _individual_ dog who has demonstrated no signs of DA in interactions and play with smaller, more controlled groups of dogs should necessarily be excluded from an appropriate style of dog park (eg not the "thunderdome" style which I don't like for any breed, anyway) just because of its breed. I know my opinion differs from a lot of people's, and honestly I'm ok with that.
> 
> My eight year old bully mix, who has been going to dog parks for most of his life, greets strange dogs appropriately and then rarely wants to interact with them beyond that. I'm confident he's not going to "turn on" any time soon... or really ever. My five year old hound mix can be a terrible bully to other dogs and she can't go to dog parks, period. But I'm not about to say that hounds don't belong at dog parks because they're bullies. What I DO say is that EVERY dog owner should be aware of their dog's potential breed traits, yes, but what is more important to me is how their individual dog interacts with other dogs regardless of its breed.


Sorry i should of said i knew you were joking with that. That why i keep saying any bread so i agree with what your saying.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

sassafras said:


> I do get your point, but at the same time... when even pit bull owners won't bring a stable, dog-park appropriate pit bull to an appropriate dog park, I think THAT also fuels BSL. There's an "OMG even the pit owners think the dogs aren't safe around other dogs!!!!" message there that I think can be as harmful as any actual incident. Stable dogs acting appropriately at dog parks do more to help than what can be seen as keeping the breed "hidden away," although... it's kind of danged if you do, danged if you don't. Again, I understand my position is against the grain, but... oh well. I've got my flame retardant suit on today.


I think there are better alternatives to show that pit bull types can be just fine with other dogs than free-for-all dog parks where anyone with any dog can come in. That's all. One problem is that a lot of people don't know what "acting appropriately" is- I've had people freak out watching my fosters play with Chester because they play a lot of bitey face or have their teeth showing while they body slam each other. The same play with his flat coat friend is viewed differently.
Membership dog parks with temperament testing and an employee supervising or very large off-leash hiking areas where dogs don't gang up or corner other dogs can be a middle ground between the parks I think aren't suitable for most dogs of most breeds anyway but even less suitable for bullies and not taking them around other dogs at all.

I like more controlled situations that still show the dogs off to the public in a very positive light.
For example, we do regular group dog walks with 15-30 bully breed types and a handful of non-bullies (including a toy poodle regular and a few GSDs) and they happily walk together, take turns at the water stops, get pets and attention from passersby etc. 
Or there is an annual Pittie Fair with tons of dogs and agility fun courses, wading pools, entertainment, shopping and many of the attendees are pit types.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Umpire said:


> i have nothing more to speak or say to you as i stated before believe what you want but what your doing is wrong.If you are defending pitbulls you doing terrible job.


 Did you bother to go back and look at those posts? Or no just because you don't like what i have to say? I actually am being a great breed ambassador because i am willing to accept and love my dog for what it is. A Pit Bull is a dog,a Pit Bull is an animal, a Pit bull isn't a unicorn who farts rainbows, and and coughs up butterflies, stop trying to sugar coat the breed an accept it for the animal it is


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Shell said:


> I think there are better alternatives to show that pit bull types can be just fine with other dogs than free-for-all dog parks where anyone with any dog can come in. That's all. One problem is that a lot of people don't know what "acting appropriately" is- I've had people freak out watching my fosters play with Chester because they play a lot of bitey face or have their teeth showing while they body slam each other. The same play with his flat coat friend is viewed differently.
> Membership dog parks with temperament testing and an employee supervising or very large off-leash hiking areas where dogs don't gang up or corner other dogs can be a middle ground between the parks I think aren't suitable for most dogs of most breeds anyway but even less suitable for bullies and not taking them around other dogs at all.
> 
> I like more controlled situations that still show the dogs off to the public in a very positive light.
> ...


Well, I will say that I am fortunate to live in a city with a government, AC, and (for the most part) population who is relatively reasonable and rational when it comes to dogs, dog breeds, dog bites, and BSL. And access to some very large, well laid out dog parks (probably by accident and getting thrown a scrap of land that couldn't be used for anything else rather than design, but not going to look a gift horse in the mouth). So definitely that affects my opinion on the matter. If I lived elsewhere, my opinion might be different. In general I don't like to make decisions based on hypothetical reactions to hypothetical situations, and around here I actually don't think most people would blame a pit bull for an altercation it didn't start... so definitely that informs my decisions.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

sassafras said:


> I actually don't think I'm being irresponsible, either. My point is this: An owner of ANY dog has a responsibility to get to know how their dog acts around other dogs before going to a dog park. And an owner of a dog breed that is potentially DA absolutely has a bigger responsibility in this regard... it doesn't do a breed any favors to turn a blind eye to their potential to be DA.
> 
> However, having said that I also don't think it does a breed any favors to make blanket statements about them. I personally don't agree that a mature, stable _individual_ dog who has demonstrated no signs of DA in interactions and play with smaller, more controlled groups of dogs should necessarily be excluded from an appropriate style of dog park (eg not the "thunderdome" style which I don't like for any breed, anyway) just because of its breed. I know my opinion differs from a lot of people's, and honestly I'm ok with that.
> 
> My eight year old bully mix, who has been going to dog parks for most of his life, greets strange dogs appropriately and then rarely wants to interact with them beyond that. I'm confident he's not going to "turn on" any time soon... or really ever. My five year old hound mix can be a terrible bully to other dogs and she can't go to dog parks, period. But I'm not about to say that hounds don't belong at dog parks because they're bullies. What I DO say is that EVERY dog owner should be aware of their dog's potential breed traits, yes, but what is more important to me is how their individual dog interacts with other dogs regardless of its breed.


I wish I could like this post again and again. This is truly what my opinion is too and I am glad that I am not alone.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't buy the whole "every Pit Bull WILL become DA when it reaches maturity, no matter what" thing that I've seen people on some of the Pit Bull forums throw around, but I do think people need to be careful when allowing them to interact with other dogs, simply because they are so tenacious when a fight is presented to them, whether they are DA or not.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

sassafras said:


> Well, I will say that I am fortunate to live in a city with a government, AC, and (for the most part) population who is relatively reasonable and rational when it comes to dogs, dog breeds, dog bites, and BSL. And access to some very large, well laid out dog parks (probably by accident and getting thrown a scrap of land that couldn't be used for anything else rather than design, but not going to look a gift horse in the mouth). So definitely that affects my opinion on the matter. If I lived elsewhere, my opinion might be different. In general I don't like to make decisions based on hypothetical reactions to hypothetical situations, and around here I actually don't think most people would blame a pit bull for an altercation it didn't start... so definitely that informs my decisions.


Much agreed on the location specific part. I do think there are plenty of areas where officials and the public are just itching for excuses to blame pit bulls. In those areas, it pays to be more cautious and avoid giving them ammo to "support" bans.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

Adjecyca1 said:


> Did you bother to go back and look at those posts? Or no just because you don't like what i have to say? I actually am being a great breed ambassador because i am willing to accept and love my dog for what it is. A Pit Bull is a dog,a Pit Bull is an animal, a Pit bull isn't a unicorn who farts rainbows, and and coughs up butterflies, stop trying to sugar coat the breed an accept it for the animal it is


I already stated my opioion and that can be said for any "animal" I am suger coating it no i am not you are being ingorance.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Umpire: These links are from VERY pro-pit bull sites and are worth a read:

http://www.badrap.org/dog-parks
http://www.pbrc.net/socializing.html
http://www.realpitbull.com/dogparks.html
http://happypitbull.com/owners-manual/basic-care/leashes-and-dog-parks/

I agree with these, but mostly just when it comes to the "Thunderdome" style of park. I have seen photos of the off-leash park sassafras goes to, and it is a large open area where dogs aren't forced to play in a pack. I don't see the problem with taking a stable, non-dog-aggressive dog of any breed into a park like that.

As for dogs "turning on," I think it's pretty safe to say that a six-year-old or eight-year-old dog who's never shown any of those tendencies is probably going to be okay. Not all pits "turn on" (my brother's never did, and she's six). It _is_ dangerous to say, "Oh, my nine-month-old pit loves all dogs!" and keep tossing him into the Thunderdome parks as he matures. At least keep in the back of your mind that he _could_ mature into a different mindset, and be watchful for any behavioral changes.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> Umpire: These links are from VERY pro-pit bull sites and are worth a read:
> 
> http://www.badrap.org/dog-parks
> http://www.pbrc.net/socializing.html
> ...


reading that speaks of all breads now my trun to share.


http://gamedogguardian.com/education-and-resources/dog-parks-pit-bulls


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Umpire said:


> reading that speaks of all breads now my trun to share.
> 
> 
> http://gamedogguardian.com/education-and-resources/dog-parks-pit-bulls


I have to jump in because it's annoying the crap out of me.... it's spelled "breed"... :/


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I likely won't take Sam to off-leash dog parks when he's older and fully grown. Not because I don't think I can socialize him or train him properly, but because I KNOW there will be other dogs there that aren't socialized properly or well trained. If one of those starts something with my big fellow...who will be blamed? Pitbull or not, it will be the bigger dog.

Besides, honestly, I'm just not that indiscriminately social myself. There are people I like and people I don't like and there are dogs I like and dogs I don't like. I'd rather be able to socialize with those I get along with and have my dog socialize with dogs he enjoys, than be stuck socializing with every yahoo who comes along, regardless of whether they have any social graces (human or canine) or not.

Another reason I LOVE our trail systems here. If we meet dogs and people we click with, everyone can play for a bit and congregate for a while. If not, we just give a wave and a hello and a quick sniff and continue on our way.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> I have to jump in because it's annoying the crap out of me.... it's spelled "breed"... :/


LOL I kept thinking the same thing.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> I have to jump in because it's annoying the crap out of me.... it's spelled "breed"... :/


Now...I have known some sourdoughs or dark ryes to be a bit aggressive.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Further more, Umpire, regardless weather or not Pit Bulls are anymore dangerous as a whole around other dogs then other breeds, like it or not, Pit Bulls ARE viewed by society as monsters, however unfair as that may be. If you take your Pit Bull to a dog park, and something happens, even if it wasn't your dog's fault, it's the Pit Bull who WILL pay the price! Just because BSL is unfair, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

RCloud said:


> Further more, Umpire, regardless weather or not Pit Bulls are anymore dangerous as a whole around other dogs then other breeds, like it or not, Pit Bulls ARE viewed by society as monsters, however unfair as that may be. If you take your Pit Bull to a dog park, and something happens, even if it wasn't your dog's fault, it's the Pit Bull who WILL pay the price! Just because BSL is unfair, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


It's our job to protect our dogs...even against the stupidity of other humans.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Umpire said:


> reading that speaks of all breads now my trun to share.
> 
> 
> http://gamedogguardian.com/education-and-resources/dog-parks-pit-bulls


Did you read the "Game Dog Guardian Statement on Dog Parks" that they link at the bottom of that page? Although they don't state that all pits should stay out of dog parks, they do say some of the same things we've all been saying:



> As a “pit bull” owner, fair or not, there is a higher standard for you and your dog when you are at
> the dog park. If there is an incident at the dog park, no matter what really happened, the “pit bull” is
> often blamed. There could be hundreds of “pit bull” type dogs at the dog park with no incident
> every day, but if a “pit bull” is involved in a scuffle, that is what people will remember.





> We support more structured energy outlets for your dog and more supervised
> socialization, such as doggie daycare. Although we do not bring our dogs to dog parks, we do bring
> our dogs to daycare. The pack supervision at a daycare facility is managed by more experienced
> people and the stress of the owner’s presence is removed.


There are certain things you have to consider while owning this breed that you don't have to consider with something like a golden. If a golden gets into a fight at a dog park, even if it badly injures another dog, people aren't going to try to make laws stating that people can't own goldens. If a pit gets into a fight -- even if the pit didn't start it -- people are far less forgiving. That's a big reason why many responsible pit owners avoid that "Thunderdome" style of park altogether -- because they realize that any kind of altercation fuels the BSL fire.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

packetsmom said:


> Another reason I LOVE our trail systems here. If we meet dogs and people we click with, everyone can play for a bit and congregate for a while. If not, we just give a wave and a hello and a quick sniff and continue on our way.


That's how my dog park is. It's something like 4 or 5 acres of wooded river bottoms with trails running through. The only place people really congregate is on the beach (along the Mississippi River) but that is easy enough to avoid.

So, I fully realize my dog park is unusual as far as dog parks go... and that is part of why I'm very comfortable with a stable, adult pit bull or bully mix there. At this point you could not pay me all the money in the world to step in to a "thunderdome" dog park with ANY dog, I'm too spoiled.

ETA: Here are a few pictures from my dog park:


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

That's an AWESOME dog park.  Mine is pretty much...Alaska.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

AmandaN said:


> I'm actually judging the dog's purpose, not looks. And there is a difference. We, humans, aren't bred for centuries for a purpose that is deadly. I love pitties, but I don't think it's safe to let them loose around other dogs, any more than I think it's safe to let a hound off around small animals.


A couple of weeks back I had started a thread about most people don't bother to learn what their dog's breed purpose before they bring them home. Then when the dog does something that is breed appropriate but not desirable in this day and age in a pet home...they freak. Once again, if people truly understood what drives their dog at it's essence of their breed...a lot of people wouldn't have the problems they have. 

And for the record...you will never see my rottweilers in a dog park and they are good dogs.

Oh...and a quick need for clarification...when you guys say temperament test, do you mean an official recognized test like ATTS http://atts.org/ or just a test someone makes up who over sees the dog park??? According to ATTS, 86.8% of pit bulls who have taken their recognized test pass - http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/ See, ATTS will look at the breed and determine if the dog's temperament is in line with the breed of dog. I have to add....only 76.7% of Bichon Frises passed the ATTS temperament test. Interesting....


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> Did you read the "Game Dog Guardian Statement on Dog Parks" that they link at the bottom of that page? Although they don't state that all pits should stay out of dog parks, they do say some of the same things we've all been saying:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


there also certin things with every breed. I don't give two rats what people think or forgiving that there own issue.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Umpire said:


> there also certin things with every breed. I don't give two rats what people think or forgiving that there own issue.


Recognizing that pits are not good candidates for free for all thunderdome style dog parks, or saying that many are dog aggressive is no more maligning the breed than me saying I can't let my rat terrier play with my rat. Dogs are dogs. They are bred to do things. Pits are prone to dog aggression and have a lot of bias against them. That means owners have to manage them to keep them safe, from other dogs, themselves, and *stupid people*. 

I like pits. I like my rat terrier. My rat terrier tearing apart a squirrel in the yard does not make him any bad, anymore than a dog who is dog aggressive is a 'bad dog'. 

That doesn't mean I would take my hypothetical pit to hang out and play with other, unknown dogs, owned by unknown people. I don't let my rat terrier hang out with my rat. 

NO one has said pits aren't good dogs. We're saying that burying your head in the sand about the potential for dog aggression and the fact that by virtue of being a pit your dog has a target painted on it when it comes to law enforcement and public perception means you have to take some safety measures.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

MrsBoats said:


> Oh...and a quick need for clarification...when you guys say temperament test, do you mean an official recognized test like ATTS http://atts.org/ or just a test someone makes up who over sees the dog park??? According to ATTS, 86.8% of pit bulls who have taken their recognized test pass - http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/ See, ATTS will look at the breed and determine if the dog's temperament is in line with the breed of dog. I have to add....only 76.7% of Bichon Frises passed the ATTS temperament test. Interesting....


As I understand it, the ATTS tests for behavior towards humans. APBTs are very human friendly dogs.

For me, temperament testing for doggie daycare or a dog park would be at least with an experienced trainer or dog care worker who can test a dog with small dogs, large dogs, male and female and for barrier and leash aggression. IMO a Canine Good Citizen cert is NOT the same as testing for dog park or dog play compatibility but good for overall general public reasonably trained type proof. The one dog I put through to pass a CGC cert was selectively aggressive and kind of a nutcase, she shouldn't set within 100 feet of a dog park but she was perfectly safe on-leash in the city.


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## Umpire (Feb 12, 2013)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> I have to jump in because it's annoying the crap out of me.... it's spelled "breed"... :/





Umpire said:


> reading that speaks of all breads now my trun to share.
> 
> 
> http://gamedogguardian.com/education-and-resources/dog-parks-pit-bulls





CptJack said:


> Recognizing that pits are not good candidates for free for all thunderdome style dog parks, or saying that many are dog aggressive is no more maligning the breed than me saying I can't let my rat terrier play with my rat. Dogs are dogs. They are bred to do things. Pits are prone to dog aggression and have a lot of bias against them. That means owners have to manage them to keep them safe, from other dogs, themselves, and *stupid people*.
> 
> I like pits. I like my rat terrier. My rat terrier tearing apart a squirrel in the yard does not make him any bad, anymore than a dog who is dog aggressive is a 'bad dog'.
> 
> ...


Any dog can be aggression get that through your think hating skull. I don't care what police think or do they are laws that protect dog and its owners. But many humans are push over and afarid to challenge the law. Officers have more than once choice before using a gun. the fact they have more use a gun first response is there own issue. 




SydTheSpaniel said:


> I have to jump in because it's annoying the crap out of me.... it's spelled "breed"... :/


I really could care less about my grammar find something else to whine about and it shouldn't bug you that much for the love of god ui hate grammar Nazi 


Umpire said:


> reading that speaks of all breads now my trun to share.
> 
> 
> http://gamedogguardian.com/education-and-resources/dog-parks-pit-bulls





RCloud said:


> Further more, Umpire, regardless weather or not Pit Bulls are anymore dangerous as a whole around other dogs then other breeds, like it or not, Pit Bulls ARE viewed by society as monsters, however unfair as that may be. If you take your Pit Bull to a dog park, and something happens, even if it wasn't your dog's fault, it's the Pit Bull who WILL pay the price! Just because BSL is unfair, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Society can think what it wants if i went by everything a public thinks of my call they be calling the game not me. I never said it didn't exist i said the pit ban is unfair and not justified. Don't follow the crowd to fit it fight for what you believe in.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Umpire said:


> Any dog can be aggression get that through your think hating skull. I don't care what police think or do they are laws that protect dog and its owners. But many humans are push over and afarid to challenge the law. Officers have more than once choice before using a gun. the fact they have more use a gun first response is there own issue.


Do you own or care for a pit bull type dog? Have you seen the issue that people get when trying to find rental housing that allows pit bull type dogs?

Yes, any INDIVIDUAL dog can be dog aggressive. The only dog so far that has actually bit my dog (all the way through his lip) was a border collie/retriever mix. The pit bulls he plays with? Fine WITH supervision. But most of them have carefully needed supervision also. 

You should care what authorities think when they have the legal ability to seize a dog and put it to death. When they can shoot a dog without repercussions. When far too many people in the public hate your breed of dog. 

There is more than one breed of dog that has dog aggression as an issue, for ALL those breeds, additional caution is a prudent move. The same with any breed trait that can be a problem.

My dog Chester is a hunting hound type. He has major prey drive. He has tried to kill a cat before, he has snatched a bird out of the air, he had gotten the tail of a squirrel. As such, he is not at all trustworthy with small game. He has been trained to ignore cats on daily walks but that doesn't make him safe to hang out with cats either. It is a breed trait and nothing more or less.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Umpire said:


> Society can think what it wants if i went by everything a public thinks of my call they be calling the game not me. I never said it didn't exist i said the pit ban is unfair and not justified. Don't follow the crowd to fit it fight for what you believe in.


The public DOES call the shots when it comes to Pit Bulls, and those shots are, if a Pit Bull hurts another dog for ANY reason, even if that reasoning is justified and logical for any living creature, human or animal, such as self defense, they are labeled a "vicious animal", and by bringing a Pit Bull to a dog park, you are putting them in danger. Because dog fights happen at dog parks, and like it or not, if something happens at the dog park, regardless of what dog started it, if your Pit Bull is involved, they WILL be taken away and killed.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

RCloud said:


> The public DOES call the shots when it comes to Pit Bulls, and those shots are, if a Pit Bull hurts another dog for ANY reason, even if that reasoning is justified and logical for any living creature, human or animal, such as self defense, they are labeled a "vicious animal", and by bringing a Pit Bull to a dog park, you are putting them in danger. Because dog fights happen at dog parks, and like it or not, if something happens at the dog park, regardless of what dog started it, if your Pit Bull is involved, they WILL be taken away and killed.


Unfortunately, this is true. It is also why I probably wont own a pit. Nothing against the breed, but I know I'm not the right owner. If an altercation did happen and my dog was put down, I don't think I would be able to live with myself.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> Unfortunately, this is true. It is also why I probably wont own a pit. Nothing against the breed, but I know I'm not the right owner. If an altercation did happen and my dog was put down, I don't think I would be able to live with myself.


I know I sure as hell couldn't, especially if the situation happened as a result of me not being able to get over my pride.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

I just want to say i don't think every dog labeled "Pit Bull" is gonna be DA. MOST of the dogs in pet homes aren't APBT, or at least aren't pure bred. Most of them are probably a mix of a bully breed, Your Amstaffx, or Ambullyx *MAY * be less likely to become DA than a real well bred APBT. That said, doesn't mean they WON'T be DA, and even if they aren't if a dog starts a fight, they will probably still finish it, and than be called a "pit bull" once it's over... I wasn't trying to say all dogs will "turn on" there are plenty of dogs that LOVE other dogs, but it is in their genes so it's something you should understand and take extra caution with..


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

RCloud said:


> Very true, but what I was getting at is I've called it quits on dog parks, period, regardless of my dogs breeds. I have no intentions of ever returning to one with my two or any future dogs (of course, I think I'm pretty much hooked on ACDs from here on out, but you get my point, lol).


This ^^^ is exactly why I don't go to DP's anymore, I have seen Izze shoulder-smack one of those "vicious pit bulls" so hard they she rolled him a fee times just because he tried to go for a stick on the ground she wanted too :/ luckily the dog wasn't hurt & the owner was great about it, but that kind of turned me off to DP's after that because the next owner might not be as gracious & people might not realize it, but there is also a good amount of bias against ACDs / herding breeds at the DP. I have actually had people leave when they saw us coming, just because of her breed.

Hence why I am so against BSL & breed bias, because I OWN a breed BRED for biting that is actually MORE likely to bite someone then any pit bull/ bully. So for me there is the "what if it was my dog" factor.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Adjecyca1 said:


> We aren't saying pit bulls are more dangerous to humans, than other dogs. But are they potentially more dangerous to other animals? Yes, Pit Bulls along with a variety of other breeds are genetically predisposed to animal aggression..


Pit bulls/ APBTs are TERRIERS bred for animal aggression, heck my small, cute agility/obedience titled jack Russell terrier can't go to the DP, because ... Yep ... He believe it or not will attack smallish, furry "vermin looking" (to him not me ) dogs & given the chance, he would kill them. Maybe not now that he is 13 but I still wouldn't want to take the chance.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I am also of the "No Pit Bulls in dog parks" camp. I love the breed and think they are amazing in the right hands. That said, I believe that the right hands are those that wouldn't consider taking a breed that is specifically bred to be dog aggressive to a dog park no matter how socialized and trained that individual dog is.  Instinct is Instinct and it can show itself at any time. I have known Pit Bulls that played great with other dogs for years and then seemingly out of the blue, they got into fights with other dogs and after that were not allowed around other dogs. Why take a chance? IT is protection for your own Pit Bull to NOT take them to a dog park and NOT chance an incedent. Why become the next story for the media to blow out of proportion? Saying a dog aggressive dog shouldn't be in a park full of dogs isn't saying they shouldn't be allowed to exsist. In the right situations all dog can fight BUT not all of them are bred to do so.

I won't take my dogs to a dog park either. I tried it years ago and had a few bad situations none of which were the faults of my dogs but I won't risk them being hurt or hurting anyone else's dog. Isn't worth it to me. My dogs do play with other friends dogs in controlled, monitored situations. To me, that is better then any dog park.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I think dog parks were a great thing while they were in the heads and on paper of the originator of such things. Then real life happened and dog parks are not that great anymore for a number of different breeds. The 'Thunderdome' ones especially. You would think e-vets have a share in the local ones because of the accidents that seem to happen weekly at them. 

I do not own a pit but have variety of different breeds and sizes. I would never think about using one because of the mishaps I read about online but also see firsthand at work. The worst one a dog fell off of a 'cliff' and was having trouble breathing. A collapsed lung was to blame. The dog for several hours was in critical condition. It did go on to make a full recovery. I have Chihuahuas who think they can go up to a big dog and bite its leg. I do not encourage such behavior and would not blame the strange dog for attacking my dog for such behavior. The dogs at a dog park would probably do better if humans were not allowed..


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

luv mi pets said:


> The dogs at a dog park would probably do better if humans were not allowed..


Hahaha thats funny and probably true-- it would probably work better if the humans were checked in at the door....


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## jedonspring (Jun 9, 2013)

You are correct....but how does one know they can trust the people who raised the dog - any dog.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I'm not for BSL in any way, but I will say that I do not believe dog parks are the place for most Pit Bulls. Or heck most bully breeds. MOST of the fights I see break out involve a Pit Bull-looking dog. I no longer even attempt to bring my 17lb'er over on the bigger side (I used to because I meet up with friends who have nice big dogs, and it often wouldn't be too crowded) but then a Pit would come in and just be really pushy and starting stuff. So I just watch from the small dog side and it's always the "oh, it's ALL how you raise them!" people. Sorry. Instincts usually rule over that. Pit Bulls are pre-disposed to have the potential for DA. I would never bring my terrier into a fence full of rabbits and expect him NOT to go after them. Maybe a bad comparision and I used to feel differently but after speaking with Pit Bill owners themselves and how most responsible Pit owners will NOT bring their dogs to dog parks... I have changed my thoughts, and especially after seeing it with my own eyes many times over and over again. Again, not saying Pit Bulls are bad, I like them, and not ALL Pit Bulls are going to be DA but the chance is too high IMO. I allow my Jackson around my aunt's Pit Bull because he's 12 years old and has proven to be safe around dogs his entire life and I'm very good at reading dogs body language. But at the dog park, you just never know who these dogs are, etc.


Agreed! I think it is fairly reasonable to not allow Pit Bulls at dog parks. I think it sad and I think it sucks to have a breed that is looked down on by the majority of people BUT Pit Bulls are specifically bred to be dog aggressive so... many/most cannot be in a dog park and be safe. That said, I am not a fan of dog parks for any breed because I think the chance of a problem is too great. I used to bring my dogs to dog parks and on several occasions had dog attack my dogs. Considering my breed, I didn't want to risk a dog attacking MY dog and then being blamed for the fight even though my dogs didn't do anything. There isn't a breed ban on my breed at parks but I chose not to put them into a situation that could end badly for them or risk another dog. Rotties are not bred to be dog aggressive but same sex aggression can be an issue AND they are a big powerful breed that CAN do damage so why risk it?


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Nope...
No dog parks for Roman.
Not because I worry that Roman will be biting other dogs but worried other dogs bad behaviour may rub off Roman.

No bad exposure... No bad experience... You are almost guaranteed that great dog.

Besides... Dog parks are so small compared to the thousands of acres parks and trails Roman enjoyed.
Privacy is precious... Controlled dog & people exposure... Priceless when it comes to Roman.


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## jec1521 (Jun 6, 2012)

I own a pitbull mix and I have no problem with this. As already stated, it is irresponsible to bring a pitbull to a dog park. Even if your pit bull is not dog aggressive (mine is not, yet anyway) Another dog can cause a fight and your pit bull will be blamed.

Just a bad situation all around. So I stay away.


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

It's a private organization. If you don't like it, don't become a member. German Shepherds are the usual troublemakers at dog parks in my opinion. Not that I go to them often, but when I do I'm avoid GSD's where possible.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

seaboxador said:


> It's a private organization. If you don't like it, don't become a member. German Shepherds are the usual troublemakers at dog parks in my opinion. Not that I go to them often, but when I do I'm avoid GSD's where possible.


I had a GSD protect me at a dog park once. He was really young, just under a year, and I was a complete stranger. A couple of dogs were playing really rough a few feet away from me, when this dog bolted from out of nowhere and threw itself between myself and the dogs. He stood directly in front of me with his haunches pressed firmly against my legs, and began barking and growling at the dogs, passing looks at me from time to time as if to say "I'll protect you", than turned back and continued barking at the dogs.

I was impressed.


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