# High priced -VS- Low priced Dog food???



## bmckenzie (Aug 25, 2008)

I know you get what you pay for, but what if you can't pay the high price to get the quaranteed health benifits. What are the better choices on the lower end of the price scale? I have a Boxer and a Samoa/Husky mix big eaters. Thanks for your input.


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## 5 s corral (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi 
I am not a food expert i work at my local shelter and i have to say i have seen a lot of old dogs come through and they have been on the cheeper food and did well you need to do what works best for you and what you can afford
hope this helps 
jamie


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

How cheap are you looking at? If you have to keep it at the very lowest price range, I'd recommend Purina Dog Chow. It's better than the other choices in that price range, and all the dogs I know who eat it are doing reasonably well. I think Dog Chow runs about $20.00 for a 55 pound bag.

If you can go up a notch from that, I recommend Diamond Naturals or Kirkland (Costco brand) food. They're both about $25.00 for a 40 pound bag (cheaper than Purina ONE, and better, too). 

Another notch up would be Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul and Canidae. Chicken Soup is about $30.00 for a 35 pound bag, and Canidae runs about $40.00 for a 40 pound bag (except the price has gone up recently, so I'm not positive about that). 

Anything with semi-moist bits (Kibbles n Bits, Purina Moist n Meaty, etc.) is a BIG no-no, because the moist bits contain corn syrup. Dogs do not need sugar in their diets; it can cause all kinds of health problems, and possibly hyperactivity (sugar buzz!). 

And you want to avoid store brands. They're just no good at all, and all the dogs I've know who are fed store brand food are really unhealthy.

You can feed your dog less of a better brand, so it usually comes out even (say, store brand vs. Chicken Soup---the dog will probably have to eat twice as much store brand to get the same amount of nutrition)


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## bmckenzie (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks, I've never heard of Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul. I'll check it out.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, that's what I feed my dogs most of the time. Here's the store locator on their website: http://www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com/dealer_locator/


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## Layladog (Sep 25, 2008)

I've known a lot of dogs, and it seems to be generally true from observing them that feeding a better food makes a big difference in their health - lifespan, weight, coat, teeth. All of the dogs I've known that were on a cheap food for any prolonged period of time tended to have a greasy coat, flaky skin, stinkier stools, and poorer overall health. 

Better usually means more expensive, but more expensive does not necessarily mean better. Case in point: Science Diet. *Terrible* food, high price tag.

I don't know what you're looking to pay so I'm not really sure what to recommend. However, bear in mind that with some of the more expensive foods you don't have to feed as much to maintain the dog's weight.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

bmckenzie said:


> I know you get what you pay for, but what if you can't pay the high price to get the quaranteed health benifits.


There are no guaranteed health benefits with any higher priced food...alot of people swear by premium foods, and the ingredients sure do look better, but I personally was unimpressed with the actual results of the ones I tried. If my budget was bigger I would probably try a few more just to see, but for now I have used both Purina One and Walmart's Maxximum Nutrition and have been happy with both. If you're near a Costco, Kirklands is supposed to be good.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Kirkland and Chicken Soup are both quite affordable and fairly decent brands of kibble. I would also look into Premium Edge, Taste of the Wild, Natural Balance and Authority Harvest Baked.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

bmckenzie said:


> Thanks, I've never heard of Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul. I'll check it out.


This is the cheapest I'll feed my animals now. I'm switching from it to Innova. This may sound harsh, but if you can't afford to feed your animals the proper diet, you can't afford to care for them and have them.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

Falkon said:


> This is the cheapest I'll feed my animals now. I'm switching from it to Innova. This may sound harsh, but if you can't afford to feed your animals the proper diet, you can't afford to care for them and have them.


Ok then, I'll go drop my dogs off at the pound.


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## Bellasmom (Aug 14, 2008)

Falkon said:


> This is the cheapest I'll feed my animals now. I'm switching from it to Innova. This may sound harsh, but if you can't afford to feed your animals the proper diet, you can't afford to care for them and have them.


My aren't you full of yourself!


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## dleggs15 (Mar 4, 2008)

Layladog said:


> I've known a lot of dogs, and it seems to be generally true from observing them that feeding a better food makes a big difference in their health - lifespan, weight, coat, teeth. All of the dogs I've known that were on a cheap food for any prolonged period of time tended to have a greasy coat, flaky skin, stinkier stools, and poorer overall health.
> 
> Better usually means more expensive, but more expensive does not necessarily mean better. Case in point: Science Diet. *Terrible* food, high price tag.
> 
> I don't know what you're looking to pay so I'm not really sure what to recommend. However, bear in mind that with some of the more expensive foods you don't have to feed as much to maintain the dog's weight.


I agree with you on the Science Diet. my dog is on the prescription KD for her kidneys and ever since she has been on it she has had skin problems and itchs a lot! before the vet recommend us put her on the prescription we were feeding the Royal Canine Bulldog food! when she was on that she had hardly any itching and never had to many skin problems! I would love to find a good food that is good for her kidney's as well but I have not been able to yet! 

Oh yeah and we pay $75 for a 40lb of this food..geesh talk about a rip off!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Falkon said:


> but if you can't afford to feed your animals the proper diet, you can't afford to care for them and have them.


I used to think that....but, really, there are more important issues. 

If you can't afford to feed your dog AT ALL, you should definitely re-home him. If you can't afford to feed him anything but store brand, you should look into what you could do in order to buy a name brand (give up/cut back on smoking, sodas, candy, etc.), because those store brands really are awful. 

But saying that you should give up your dog because you can't afford Innova.....really now, I think that with all the dogs dying in shelters for lack of homes, giving up your dog should never be an option, especially for a reason like food choices.

And of course, "proper diet" is highly subjective.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

Bellasmom said:


> My aren't you full of yourself!


You know, I can't afford the time to walk my dog, so I think I'll just leave her in the crate or yard all day instead.



Willowy said:


> I used to think that....but, really, there are more important issues.
> 
> If you can't afford to feed your dog AT ALL, you should definitely re-home him. If you can't afford to feed him anything but store brand, you should look into what you could do in order to buy a name brand (give up/cut back on smoking, sodas, candy, etc.), because those store brands really are awful.
> 
> ...


I'm totally with you. I'm not saying that anyone should give up their dog. They should, however, consider the cost of vet bills and proper food. I just wouldn't settle for feeding my dog Iams. I'd sooner give up spending money doing something I like. If that means not eating out for lunch, fine. I'm not going to make my dog suffer for my own poor financial planning.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Here is the ingredient list for Purina Dog Chow, with the ingredients bolded, which I won't touch with a 40 foot pole:

*Whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, animal fat* preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), *corn gluten meal, meat and bone meal*, brewers rice, soybean meal, barley, whole grain wheat, *animal digest*, calcium carbonate, salt, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, *added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 2, Yellow 6)*, DL-Methionine, manganese sulfate, manganese proteinate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, copper proteinate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite. 

The first four ingredients all suck in a row. No thank you. If I ran out of money, I'd feed them MY food before I fed them this (and I've done it before).

I do love Kirkland. A 40 lb bag of food for 20 bucks, and no wheat, corn, by-products, or artificial colors/preservatives? Yes please! Mine are on this right now because I am short on cash, and they're doing great. I'd recommend it to anyone.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Cheetah said:


> I do love Kirkland. A 40 lb bag of food for 20 bucks, and no wheat, corn, by-products, or artificial colors/preservatives? Yes please! Mine are on this right now because I am short on cash, and they're doing great. I'd recommend it to anyone.


For those without a Costco (like me), Diamond Naturals is almost identical to Kirkland. I pay $26.99 for the chicken and rice formula (40 pounds) and $20.99 for the beef and rice formula (I don't know why the beef costs less). I forget how much the lamb and rice formula costs, because my dogs don't do well on lamb.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Willowy said:


> For those without a Costco (like me), Diamond Naturals is almost identical to Kirkland.


Good point. Diamond makes Kirkland and I totally forgot.

I don't have a Costco membership either, so I just have others take me to Costco lol...


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I had never even _heard_ of a Costco until I was on dog forums. 

Is it like a Sam's?


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

Laurelin said:


> I had never even _heard_ of a Costco until I was on dog forums.
> 
> Is it like a Sam's?


I don't know for sure, but I think they are similar.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Costco is a membership club store, like Sam's Club. But I guess most people prefer Costco, given a choice. I have a friend that moved here from New Jersey, and she's mad that there's no Costco here. She says Sam's isn't half as good.


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## CyBill (Nov 12, 2006)

I guess the way I prefer to see this is that I would prefer to spend more for premium dog food now and not have to pay huge vet bills later. With the recalls with the lower grade foods, I'm personally just too apprehensive about purchasing them. Just my preference and opinion, but I do believe that corn (which is usd in many common dog foods) not only can be an allergen for dogs but can also cause behavioral probelms as well.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

CyBill said:


> but I do believe that corn (which is usd in many common dog foods) not only can be an allergen for dogs but can also cause behavioral probelms as well.


Like "hot feed" and horses? Interesting theory. I'd like to see someone do a study....although "behavioral problems" are highly subjective. I do know that my mom's new dog was eating Ol' Roy Kibbles 'n' Chunks before they got her, and now she's a lot less hyper and more focused. But that particular food has corn syrup as the 5th ingredient, so she might have been on a sugar high before.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

CyBill said:


> I guess the way I prefer to see this is that I would prefer to spend more for premium dog food now and not have to pay huge vet bills later. With the recalls with the lower grade foods, I'm personally just too apprehensive about purchasing them. Just my preference and opinion, but I do believe that corn (which is usd in many common dog foods) not only can be an allergen for dogs but can also cause behavioral probelms as well.


Exactly. As for a price issue... I'm a full time undergrad student. I don't really have any extra money, yet I'm willing to feed my dog a good food that may cost me $50 a 35lb bag. I'd feed her well even if it meant eating only veggies and tofu for me.


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## gale (Sep 11, 2007)

Falkon said:


> Exactly. As for a price issue... I'm a full time undergrad student. I don't really have any extra money, yet I'm willing to feed my dog a good food that may cost me $50 a 35lb bag. I'd feed her well even if it meant eating only veggies and tofu for me.


But that changes when you have kids. My dh farms which comes with a very inconsistent income. Some years we barely made 10K and that's for a family of 5. Some are better. I'm not giving my kids veggies and tofu so the dog can eat $50 a bag dog food. On the other hand I wouldn't feed any grocery store food either. We're feeding Calif. Natural right now but it is getting very hard to find (special order, and the last time the guy went to pick up supplies, the distributor was out of it so we have to wait 4-6 more weeks before he gets another order-and then they STILL may be out of it) and pretty expensive ($45 a bag) so we are going to switch to the ONLY decent food available locally which is Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice (no chicken & rice available either). It STINKS so much to live out in the sticks sometimes.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

gale said:


> But that changes when you have kids. My dh farms which comes with a very inconsistent income. Some years we barely made 10K and that's for a family of 5. Some are better. I'm not giving my kids veggies and tofu so the dog can eat $50 a bag dog food. On the other hand I wouldn't feed any grocery store food either. We're feeding Calif. Natural right now but it is getting very hard to find (special order, and the last time the guy went to pick up supplies, the distributor was out of it so we have to wait 4-6 more weeks before he gets another order-and then they STILL may be out of it) and pretty expensive ($45 a bag) so we are going to switch to the ONLY decent food available locally which is Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice (no chicken & rice available either). It STINKS so much to live out in the sticks sometimes.


I know about living out there as well. The Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice was a decently rated food. You do with what you can get in that case. I would recommend supplementing with some raw food, such as a raw egg every now and then. Eggs are cheap. As a student working I bring in about 10k a year. Most of it goes to living expenses - rent, food, and utilities. There's no discretionary income here. Thank god the dog park is free. Getting dog food shipped is a huge pain. One thing that is good is that many grain stores will carry good food. If it means that once a month you have to make a 30 - 45 minute drive to stock up on dog food, it's worth it in my opinion.


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## gale (Sep 11, 2007)

There are lots of farm stores around here but one carries the diamond naturals (and a lot of crappy brands like dura-life) and the other only carries iams, euk, and science diet (plus the no-name brands). The grain and feed stores don't carry anything but their own brand (the brand of all the feed they carry-in our case Kent brand). It's an hour to a pet store that carries any variety but their prices are really high. The diamond naturals at the store here is about $23 for a $40 lb bag and at that store, it is $35 for the same bag. I was shocked (we were there yesterday buying cat food). I actually wouldn't mind driving that far every few months other than in the winter when the roads are really bad at times.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

gale said:


> There are lots of farm stores around here but one carries the diamond naturals (and a lot of crappy brands like dura-life) and the other only carries iams, euk, and science diet (plus the no-name brands). The grain and feed stores don't carry anything but their own brand (the brand of all the feed they carry-in our case Kent brand). It's an hour to a pet store that carries any variety but their prices are really high. The diamond naturals at the store here is about $23 for a $40 lb bag and at that store, it is $35 for the same bag. I was shocked (we were there yesterday buying cat food). I actually wouldn't mind driving that far every few months other than in the winter when the roads are really bad at times.


Most of these grain stores are small businesses. The one down the street from me has been run by the same people for decades. I would ask them to look into carrying a premium brand such as California Natural or Innova. It can't hurt. I'm lucky that the store close by has just about every highly rated food out there. They had the timberwolf, wellness, innova, chicken soup, before grain, canidae, solid gold, and that evolution diet one.


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## gale (Sep 11, 2007)

They are small here too. I actually worked at this one before I had my oldest. I am pretty sure he wouldn't order anything like that. Everything they buy other than the straight grain is from Kent feeds. They have no other distributor (my dh picks up feed for them on a regular basis). They do have a variety of foods but none look all that great (definitely no better than the Diamond). The guy we were getting the Calif Natural from said that most people around here (farming community) are just not willing to spend a lot of money on dog food so he can't really keep it in stock because it may not sell before it expires. My fil is a perfect example of the norm around here-he feeds diamond originals to his dog because it's the cheapest thing he can find and it's pretty crappy food.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you can find a place that sells the original Diamond foods, ask them if they'll order the Naturals line for you. Since they already have an account with Diamond, it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Pupsbegood (Sep 12, 2008)

IMO the best high quality food that is also a decent value (i.e. not one of those "caviar in a dish" overpriced ones) is Canidae - do they carry that one at your local store? They just started stocking a new one that is a grain free formula at the store in Virginia closest to me, and that balances out w/ value pretty well.


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## DogsforMe (Mar 11, 2007)

Of course if we all wanted to feed our dogs the very best diet, we would be feeding raw meaty bones. Me included. And before anyone says OH NO! Check out this article on raw feeding myths.
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
My dogs do get some bones, but I will only feed human grade which is very expensive.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

DogsforMe said:


> Of course if we all wanted to feed our dogs the very best diet, we would be feeding raw meaty bones. Me included. And before anyone says OH NO! Check out this article on raw feeding myths.
> http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
> .


I disagree, I'll stick will kibble thank you.



gale said:


> But that changes when you have kids. My dh farms which comes with a very inconsistent income. Some years we barely made 10K and that's for a family of 5. Some are better. I'm not giving my kids veggies and tofu so the dog can eat $50 a bag dog food. On the other hand I wouldn't feed any grocery store food either. We're feeding Calif. Natural right now but it is getting very hard to find (special order, and the last time the guy went to pick up supplies, the distributor was out of it so we have to wait 4-6 more weeks before he gets another order-and then they STILL may be out of it) and pretty expensive ($45 a bag) so we are going to switch to the ONLY decent food available locally which is Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice (no chicken & rice available either). It STINKS so much to live out in the sticks sometimes.


Feed stores usually carry Innova which is a pretty good brand, maybe they will carry it for you.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

Innova is very good. I highly recommend it.


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## OreosMom1 (May 7, 2008)

Falkon said:


> This is the cheapest I'll feed my animals now. I'm switching from it to Innova. This may sound harsh, but if you can't afford to feed your animals the proper diet, you can't afford to care for them and have them.


So I'm assuming that you've never heard of anyone losing a job while owning a dog or running into some financial hardship? If everyone were to give up their dogs when they have money problems none of us would have dogs. 

Ignorant people amuse me


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

You do what you can. Nobody should adopt a dog with the intention to feed it the cheapest food possible. If you aren't taking proper care of your dog, be it time, feeding, etc, you are at least somewhat neglecting it. 

People with little reading comprehension amuse me.


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## OreosMom1 (May 7, 2008)

Falkon said:


> You do what you can. Nobody should adopt a dog with the intention to feed it the cheapest food possible. If you aren't taking proper care of your dog, be it time, feeding, etc, you are at least somewhat neglecting it.
> 
> People with little reading comprehension amuse me.


I never said to go into a shelter find a dog, bring them home then decide to feed them dollar general dog food from the start. If you would have read my statement correctly, you would have seen that I said that you must have never heard of people running into financial hardships WHILE owning a dog. That's totally different than being broke to begin with, THEN decided to get a dog or any animal for that matter. 

Example: Someone gets a dog from either a shelter, rescue or other means with the best of intentions. This person has quite a bit of extra money to buy more expensive dog food brands. A year or two goes by and that person looses their job or runs into some other financial issues. That person then decides to buy a less expensive brand of dog food, until they are back on their feet again. According to you, that person should go without certain foods so they can buy the $50 a bag dog food. Or that person should make their children as well, go without certain foods. Just because you don't go broke for your dog, does not automatically mean that you are neglecting it. If we didn't care about our dog's welfare and health, we wouldn't be on this forum, so telling the original poster that they should rethink owning a dog because they want to go with a cheaper brand of food is asinine.


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## AJF080170 (Oct 6, 2008)

I want to thank you all for such good advice! I've been going back and forth what to feed my dogs. I hate to say it, but my dogs always have eaten Pedigree. I know it's terrible;they wouldn't touch anything else. But, they've stopped eating that, too. I'm glad they did; now THAT'S been recalled from Salmonella outbreaks, about 3 weeks ago! I had taken them off NutraMax, 3 months before the recall. Thank goodness I did! Our neighbor gave his dog Purina, and he passed away. It was so sad~he was only 10. I was, actually, thinking of putting my dogs on Science Diet. Our other neighbor said how great it was, and how much their dog loved it. I had no idea it was "stinky", so I'm glad I joined! I've never heard of Kirkland or Innova~I will DEFINITELY check them out! Thanks!


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## EGK (Oct 6, 2008)

This is my first time here and i'm just browsing threads. Reading this one makes me wonder how dogs durvived into the 21st century. I mean without yuppy food to eat you'd think man's best friend would have gone extinct


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

OreosMom1 said:


> I never said to go into a shelter find a dog, bring them home then decide to feed them dollar general dog food from the start. If you would have read my statement correctly, you would have seen that I said that you must have never heard of people running into financial hardships WHILE owning a dog. That's totally different than being broke to begin with, THEN decided to get a dog or any animal for that matter.
> 
> Example: Someone gets a dog from either a shelter, rescue or other means with the best of intentions. This person has quite a bit of extra money to buy more expensive dog food brands. A year or two goes by and that person looses their job or runs into some other financial issues. That person then decides to buy a less expensive brand of dog food, until they are back on their feet again. According to you, that person should go without certain foods so they can buy the $50 a bag dog food. Or that person should make their children as well, go without certain foods. Just because you don't go broke for your dog, does not automatically mean that you are neglecting it. If we didn't care about our dog's welfare and health, we wouldn't be on this forum, so telling the original poster that they should rethink owning a dog because they want to go with a cheaper brand of food is asinine.


I would say someone should rethink owning a dog if they never walk it or let it out to exercise as well. Neglect comes in many forms. If I were to lose my job right now, I would have to budget. Considering if you read any of these other threads, unless you feed your dog the cheap cheap stuff like ol Roy, it costs about the same to feed Canidae as it does to feed Purina due to the amount. Once you get over the sticker shock and learn the facts, your argument holds no water. 

So, at what part did I even IMPLY that someone should let their children go without proper nutrition? Please quote it, because I sure as hell don't see that in my posts. If you can't afford $0.65 a day to feed your dog properly, you can't afford a dog. This is just a truth. This is a hell of a lot less than I eat for daily. Stop being such a reactionary and look at the facts.



EGK said:


> This is my first time here and i'm just browsing threads. Reading this one makes me wonder how dogs durvived into the 21st century. I mean without yuppy food to eat you'd think man's best friend would have gone extinct


Nah, we've just seen a rise in dog cancers, thyroid problems, diabetes, and a nice handful of other diseases we humans enjoy.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

EGK said:


> This is my first time here and i'm just browsing threads. Reading this one makes me wonder how dogs durvived into the 21st century. I mean without yuppy food to eat you'd think man's best friend would have gone extinct


http://www.rawfed.com/


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## EGK (Oct 6, 2008)

Falkon said:


> Nah, we've just seen a rise in dog cancers, thyroid problems, diabetes, and a nice handful of other diseases we humans enjoy.


I would bet that's more from lack of exercise and people feeding their dogs human junk foods. 

My brother fed his dog the best dog food money could buy, even buying raw meat when he'd read articles about commercial foods being contaminated. His dog was probably 30lbs overweight because he also fed her tons of human junk food and she hardly got any exercise. It had lots of health problems and died at an early age.

My point is no matter what someone feeds their dog, others will find some fault with it. As with people, moderation is key. I've been feeding IAMS to my shelter dog yet I read posts on these forums saying it's garbage. Loose dogs routinely rummage in garbage cans. I'm sure Sally did since she was picked up as a stray. I have to think IAMS isn't so bad.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

EGK said:


> I would bet that's more from lack of exercise and people feeding their dogs human junk foods.
> 
> My brother fed his dog the best dog food money could buy, even buying raw meat when he'd read articles about commercial foods being contaminated. His dog was probably 30lbs overweight because he also fed her tons of human junk food and she hardly got any exercise. It had lots of health problems and died at an early age.
> 
> My point is no matter what someone feeds their dog, others will find some fault with it. As with people, moderation is key. I've been feeding IAMS to my shelter dog yet I read posts on these forums saying it's garbage. Loose dogs routinely rummage in garbage cans. I'm sure Sally did since she was picked up as a stray. I have to think IAMS isn't so bad.


It hasn't been that long since kibble was created and why do you think it was created? So us humans would have a convenient and easy way to feed our animals. Kilbble is like a TV dinner for dogs. More and more, fast and easy processed meals are being invented for both animals and humans because of the way we live. They are made with chemicals and additives which our bodies don't know how to process. Along with lack of exercise and bad eating habits, processed food has contributed greatly to the increase in obesity, cancer and other diseases. Pesticides, drugs, artificial flavourings, colourings, fat substitutes etc. have infested our (and our pets') food supply. It's no wonder our bodies mutate themselves and end up with cancer, diabetes, and such.

At the same time, we are learning more about nutrition and how food contributes to our and our pets' health. This is why these premium dog foods were created. Call it the holistic bandwagon but we've taken the bait. I do agree that some kibble are better than others. I cannot vouch for Iams because a former colleague told me that she feeds her dogs Iams and if she looks closely at the kibble she can see fur sticking out. That alone makes me want to puke. What do you think the result would be of such cannibalism?

However, consider that large pet food manufacturers want to mass produce dog or cat food while making a profit. Thus, they will want to make it with the cheapest ingredients. Where do you think their meat comes from? From the flanks of grain-fed cattle? I think not. The cheapest would be from dead, disabled and diseased animals who have been euthanized. Plus you are getting a bonus - the drugs used to euthanize the animals. What goes into chicken meal for example? Who knows? What about the fiber content of your dog food? Could it be hair as in Iams kibble? I wouldn't be so flippant about dog food just because your dog is still alive. I realize every dog is different but whether you like it or not, the market of pet food has changed and is more focused on healthier foods. It's still kibble but the marketing is more sophisticated. In light of the pet food recalls, it behooves us to make sure that we are giving our dogs, at the very least, the best TV dinner possible.

I do believe that since we have brought dogs and cats into our homes and trained them to become part of our family, we have an obligation to provide for them as we would for our children. I do as best as I can with as much as I can afford. As for the person who said that people who can't afford good food are neglecting their dogs, I recently lost my job and am still giving my dog homecooked food. However, I don't have kids, just a mortgage and bills, whereas some people, especially in light of the credit crisis going on, have lost their jobs and have families so I wouldn't be so judgemental.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. 
Inform yourself. I wouldn't feed IAMS due to the gruesome testing they do on dogs and cats alone. 

many of these cheap foods contain great ingredients such as "chicken by-product" which is the lungs, feet, feathers, beaks, etc.

Beef remains from 4D cows, that is Diseased, Dying, Disabled, and Dead. 

Preservatives linked to cancer in humans

Fillers with little to no nutritional value. 

Fats and parts from rendered euthanized dogs and cats.

Artificial colors known to cause brain tumors.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients

Yeah, I'll give all that a miss.



flipgirl said:


> It hasn't been that long since kibble was created and why do you think it was created? So us humans would have a convenient and easy way to feed our animals. Kilbble is like a TV dinner for dogs. More and more, fast and easy processed meals are being invented for both animals and humans because of the way we live. They are made with chemicals and additives which our bodies don't know how to process. Along with lack of exercise and bad eating habits, processed food has contributed greatly to the increase in obesity, cancer and other diseases. Pesticides, drugs, artificial flavourings, colourings, fat substitutes etc. have infested our (and our pets') food supply. It's no wonder our bodies mutate themselves and end up with cancer, diabetes, and such.
> 
> At the same time, we are learning more about nutrition and how food contributes to our and our pets' health. This is why these premium dog foods were created. Call it the holistic bandwagon but we've taken the bait. I do agree that some kibble are better than others. I cannot vouch for Iams because a former colleague told me that she feeds her dogs Iams and if she looks closely at the kibble she can see fur sticking out. That alone makes me want to puke. What do you think the result would be of such cannibalism?
> 
> ...


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## wackyweim (Oct 11, 2008)

sheltiemom said:


> There are no guaranteed health benefits with any higher priced food...alot of people swear by premium foods, and the ingredients sure do look better, but I personally was unimpressed with the actual results of the ones I tried. If my budget was bigger I would probably try a few more just to see, but for now I have used both Purina One and Walmart's Maxximum Nutrition and have been happy with both. If you're near a Costco, Kirklands is supposed to be good.



Hey Sheltiemom, I agree with you when you pointed out that there are no guaranteed health benefits with the higher priced food. I to have used the super premium all natural foods with poor results. When I look for a dog food I look at the company who develops it. For example, I would have to believe a company like Purina would have better R&D then the much smaller companies that make the ultra premium foods. I think what it comes down is that if your dog is healthy and well with the food you use then use it whether it be Dog Chow or Evo.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

At the risk of sounding like a dog food snob, every dog is different and while some of the premium dog foods may not work for your dog, I still would hesitate to buy a grocery store brand simply because the companies are huge and thus, make their food with the cheapest ingredients possible (a large part of them being filler and other strange ingredients like propylene glycol - added to increase sweetness - and hydrochloric acid). Companies like Purina may have a larger R&D department yet they do not list their ingredients on their website. So what research has Purina done that says artificial colours (in their Beneful food) are good for dogs? I emailed the company that makes Kibbles and Bits to ask about the purpose of propylene glycol and hydrochloric acid in the food and all I got as a response was that propylene glycol was at acceptable levels for consumption. My friend said hydrochloric acid is used in aspirin - yeah so? What is it doing in dog food? Just because I'm still alive eating cereal doesn't mean it's good for me. I could do better...There may be some ingredients in the premium foods that don't agree with your dog but there are other diets other than cheap dog food that may be better for your dog's well-being. No there are no guaranteed health benefits with any food. Also consider that genetics play a huge role in a dog's health. So your dog may be doing well on purina yet he may thrive anyway because of genetics. Think of it this way, there are people who gain weight easily, like myself, even though they try to eat right and exercise yet there are those people, like my brother, who can eat McDonalds and ice cream every day and still be skinny like a rail. (apparently those genes skipped me).


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

flipgirl said:


> At the same time, we are learning more about nutrition and how food contributes to our and our pets' health. This is why these premium dog foods were created. Call it the holistic bandwagon but we've taken the bait.


There are no requirements for a dog food to call itself "premium" or "super premium" or "holistic" or "natural" Ol' Roy could change it's name to "Holistic Super Premium Ol' Roy Dog Food" if they wanted to without changing anything in their foumula. "Taken the bait" is a good phrase because so many people believe the marketing departments when they buy these so called high end dog foods.

"Premium" dog food was created by marketing departments in order to be able to charge higher prices for the same stuff, not because of any increase in value of the ingredients.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

flipgirl said:


> Companies like Purina may have a larger R&D department yet they do not list their ingredients on their website.


Purina does list their ingredients on their website, I'll see if I can find a link for it....I do think some Purina products are better than others though, I think One and Pro Plan are ok, Dog Chow along with K&B, Beneful, etc, are farther down on the ladder imo, but I would never judge anyone who feeds these b/c of budget or whatever.

Here's a link for the Purina One Lamb and Rice...http://www.purinaone.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2F90783D-40D5-4E7C-BCA5-8BBB36943F30...here's all their products http://www.purina.com/products/dogs.aspx, all show ingredients if you click around a bit, like I said, some are better than others...


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## wackyweim (Oct 11, 2008)

"Also consider that genetics play a huge role in a dog's health. So your dog may be doing well on purina yet he may thrive anyway because of genetics."

Hey flipgirl, first, thanks for taking the time to reply. The point you made above was where I was going with part of my comment. Genetics does play a huge role in the health of the dog. My sister fed a very large mixed breed dog grocery store brand dog food and he lived a very healthy life for almost 15 years. My conclusion from this is that the food store brand didn't hinder his health and he had very good genetics.

I would also like to point out that whether the company is large or small they are still out to make a profit or else they wouldn't be in business. A mass produced dog food is mass produced because the company has the resources to do so. I believe that as long as the food you feed your dog keeps within AAFCO guidelines then genetics and exercise will play a larger role in the longevity of your dog. This is just my take on the subject. Thanks again


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

sheltiemom said:


> Purina does list their ingredients on their website, I'll see if I can find a link for it....I do think some Purina products are better than others though, I think One and Pro Plan are ok, Dog Chow along with K&B, Beneful, etc, are farther down on the ladder imo, but I would never judge anyone who feeds these b/c of budget or whatever.
> 
> Here's a link for the Purina One Lamb and Rice...http://www.purinaone.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2F90783D-40D5-4E7C-BCA5-8BBB36943F30...here's all their products http://www.purina.com/products/dogs.aspx, all show ingredients if you click around a bit, like I said, some are better than others...


 Ok thanks sheltiemom, I looked on their website and couldn't find it. I guess I didn't look hard enough. I stand corrected. 

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was judging people who feed grocery store brands or whatever because of budgetary reasons. Like I said, I recently lost my job and luckily, for now, I am still feeding my dog homecooked food. Although, if I can't find a job soon, I will have to go back to kibble. I was responding to one of the posts where someone's dog didn't respond to a premium dog food. I was just trying to point out that these so-called premium foods are marketed as such because nutrition has become an important issue with respect to our pets as they, in turn, become more and more a part of our families. But also that since we bring them into our families, we should try and feed them the best we can. 

In response to wackyweim, if, Purina, let's say, has the resources to mass produce dog food, tell me why put artificial colouring in Beneful? I know it's to make the food look 'healthier' but why not just provide a cheaper food that doesn't have unnecessary ingredients? As a big company, they should be able to do the research to come up with a simpler food at a cheaper price or include a better quality ingredient without having to colour the food. Both large and small companies have to make a profit yes I agree but I tend to go with the smaller, independent companies who use local ingredients like Orijen. They usually don't have the resources that Purina does to advertise on TV so they have to advertise through word of mouth and other means. I'm not saying every small company produces good dog food but I think I would consider it more than a grocery store brand (if my budget allows of course) However, the downside of this is cost. 

With respect to genetics, as I said, they play a huge role in a dog's health and lifespan but if you can, why not increase its quality of life with good food? You do the best you can with what you have, just as you would for yourself.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

flipgirl said:


> I'm sorry if I sounded like I was judging people who feed grocery store brands or whatever because of budgetary reasons.


I didn't mean you personally, your posts have never come across like that.


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

This should cover most of the foods out there.

The pet food market has been dominated in the last few years by the acquisition of big companies by even bigger companies.

* Nestlé’s bought Purina to form Nestlé Purina Petcare Company (Fancy Feast, Alpo, Friskies, Mighty Dog, Dog Chow, Cat Chow, Puppy Chow, Kitten Chow, Beneful, One, ProPlan, DeliCat, HiPro, Kit’n’Kaboodle, Tender Vittles, Purina Veterinary Diets).
* Del Monte gobbled up Heinz (MeowMix, Gravy Train, Kibbles ’n Bits, Wagwells, 9Lives, Cycle, Skippy, Nature’s Recipe, and pet treats Milk Bone, Pup-Peroni, Snausages, Pounce).
* MasterFoods owns Mars, Inc., which consumed Royal Canin (Pedigree, Waltham’s, Cesar, Sheba, Temptations, Goodlife Recipe, Sensible Choice, Excel).

Other major pet food makers are not best known for pet care, although many of their household and personal care products do use ingredients derived from animal by-products:

* Procter and Gamble (P&G) purchased The Iams Company (Iams, Eukanuba) in 1999. P&G shortly thereafter introduced Iams into grocery stores, where it did very well.
* Colgate-Palmolive bought Hill’s Science Diet (founded in 1939) in 1976 (Hill’s Science Diet, Prescription Diets, Nature’s Best).

It's convenient that these companies already produce human grade foods, for humans of course. This means they can take all the leftover beaks, feet, feathers, lungs, and other parts of the carcass not suitable for human consumption and turn them into kibble. Poultry by-product is one name for it on the ingredients list. 

Speaking of ingredients list, here's the one for Pedigree.
Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, animal fat (preserved with bha/bht), wheat mill run, natural poultry flavor, rice, salt, potassium chloride, caramel color, wheat flour, wheat gluten, vegetable oil, vitamins (choline chloride, dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin e], l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate [source of vitamin c*], vitamin a supplement, thiamine mononitrate [vitamin b1], biotin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement [vitamin b2], vitamin d3 supplement, vitamin b12 supplement), trace minerals (zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide).

Wow, more corn than meat, that's great! There's nothing that carnivores like more than GRAIN. Oh BHA/BHT? Yes, they are linked to several cancers, but who's really watching? Ahh, there's that chicken by-product. wheat gluten, a common allergen in dogs. 

Well, that just convinces me right there. It's cheaper to feed my dog peanut shells and leftover animal carcasses, so I think I'll just do that.


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## wackyweim (Oct 11, 2008)

Hey flipgirl, I would assume there just making it more appealing to the human customer. It looks cool, I'll buy it. The same could be said for Solid Gold or Wellness. The packaging looks like an artist did it  If they used cheaper packaging maybe the price would come down and I would be able to afford it. Like someone said in another post, it's marketing. This is one of those topics that could be and will be debated on for years to come. I think what it comes down to is that if your dog does well on what your feeding it whether it be raw, kibble etc... then stick to it. Take care.


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## ashmouse (Oct 14, 2008)

here's my 2cents

Brands that I'll say Yes to for the time being.

- Nutra Gold
- Wellness
- Over baked

Brands that I have doubts with

- Pedigree, Alpo, Eukanuka (too salty)
- Science Diet (too commercialise / food recall before)
- Brands found in super markets (too commercialise)
- Natural Balance (history filled with recalls)
- Innova (contain animal fats and bones)
- Solid gold (the standard of colour and smell in the cat food has dropped, doubts on the dog food)
-Purina / Royal Canin / Iams / Nutro (food recall before)
- Timberwolf (the cat food has too much added oil, doubts on what's healthy)

List of brands that have been recalled in 2007
http://www.aplus-flint-river-ranch.com/recall-menufoods-petfoods.php

Honesty, as i run through this list, i wonder what can my cats and dogs eat. I think the best is home-cooked food  But then again, our human food are no better either.


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## janesca (Sep 11, 2008)

Has anyone used Bil-Jac? I have a 15 week old puppy, Hannah, she was eating Royal Canin when I got her, but that is pretty pricey. I used to feed my other dog Iams, she was raised on it, thrived and lived to 15 1/2 (boy do I still miss her so much!) I talked to a Bil-Jac rep at my local Pet Smart and was impressed with what I saw and read, she gave me a 3 lb bag to sample and some coupons. Hannah really took to it and seems to be thriving on it. I am at the point where I will be needing more food soon and am trying to decide if I should keep her on the Bil-Jac, transition her to the Iams or go with something else. Feedback?? Thanks!


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## Falkon (Aug 21, 2008)

Bil-Jac is one of the cheapest, least nutritious dog foods on the market. You'd be be better off feeding even Iams than that. You'd be better off feeding road kill and corn husks than Iams.


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## janesca (Sep 11, 2008)

Falkon said:


> Bil-Jac is one of the cheapest, least nutritious dog foods on the market. You'd be be better off feeding even Iams than that. You'd be better off feeding road kill and corn husks than Iams.


Any other sane repies?


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## gale (Sep 11, 2007)

janesca said:


> Any other sane repies?


 Bil-Jac is horrible food. Iams is better than Bil-Jac and it's also horrible food. Maybe not what you wanted to hear but it's true.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

janesca said:


> I am at the point where I will be needing more food soon and am trying to decide if I should keep her on the Bil-Jac, transition her to the Iams or go with something else. Feedback?? Thanks!


Definitely go with something else. Iams is a terrible food and Bil-Jac is even worse. 

The information on these pages will help you learn to identify good foods by reading their ingredients:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=labelinfo101
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Falkon said:


> You'd be better off feeding road kill and corn husks than Iams.


Hey! Road kill is more nutritious to your dog than any kibble on the market. Seriously


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

RawFedDogs said:


> Hey! Road kill is more nutritious to your dog than any kibble on the market. Seriously


I knew someone (very low-income) who went out looking for fresh-ish roadkill to feed his dogs. He also went through the garbage at the park for picnic leftovers. I have to say his dogs looked better than the dogs I know who eat grocery store generic brand dog food. And my cousins had a farm dog that lived to be 17 on purely table scraps and what he caught. I'm really having doubts about dog food. *sigh*, I'm going to end up going raw someday. I just need to get to it.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Willowy said:


> I knew someone (very low-income) who went out looking for fresh-ish roadkill to feed his dogs.


Years ago, before even knowing about raw feeding I had a Golden Retriever whose favorite treat was a road kill squirrel who had been laying out in the hot GA sunshine for a few days. I didn't intentionally feed them to her but if she could get mouth on it before I could stop her, she would eat it before I could get it out of her mouth. She got away with this 3 or 4 times in her life and never once had any ill effects from it. No diarrhea. No vomiting. of course, I was horrified each time she did it. 

Since beginning raw feeding, I don't feed road kill but if one of my dogs finds a dead animal and eats it, it's no big deal. It's also no big deal if they catch live prey and eat it, or steal a kill from one of the cats.


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## rahulmittal (Oct 15, 2008)

I am not a food advisor but I can tell you most of the dogs like to eat cheaper food. And the most important thing is Upto you what you can afford?
Thanks.

________________________________________________________________
Rahul

http://www.raleighdentist.com


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

rahulmittal said:


> I am not a food advisor but I can tell you most of the dogs like to eat cheaper food. And the most important thing is Upto you what you can afford?
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Falkon said:


> This is the cheapest I'll feed my animals now. I'm switching from it to Innova. This may sound harsh, but if you can't afford to feed your animals the proper diet, you can't afford to care for them and have them.


Proper diet is a matter of opinion. Given the choice of getting rid of my dogs, starving them or feeding them something cheaper for awhile I'd go with the last choice. There are more important things then premium foods. Dogs are priority along with other as important priotities. 

There are some foods I just won't feed, no matter what type of bind I'm in because going with really cheap "nasty" foods equates to feeding more and not saving anything in the end. So it'd be better for them and me to spend a little more for the bag and have it last longer.


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## Laurence (Nov 16, 2008)

Anyone familar with the Fromm brand? I found it recommended on another site. 

I am looking for a good, less expensive alternative to the Nutro Natural Choice, which is stretching my purse at $60 for a 40 lb bag. 

My dog doesn't really like kibble at all, by the way, but I have been told he should get some once a day to keep his teeth clean. 

What he likes is homemade food. I make him a big pot of chicken soup to which I add brown rice, barley, oats, carrots, and beet tops, cook it all to a mush. I leave the bones and cartilage in, and add flax seed oil too. Then I freeze it in meal-sized bags. Then I add hot water so he gets a warm meal in the morning. He is a very happy 13 1/2 year old mutt, and I have noticed that his joints are much less stiff and his coat looks great. 

I look forward to your thoughts on this.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Laurence said:


> My dog doesn't really like kibble at all, by the way, but I have been told he should get some once a day to keep his teeth clean.


I don't have any experience with the Fromm brand, but I did want to let you know that the idea of kibble cleaning a dog's teeth is more or less a myth. Kibble just isn't hard enough to really do any substantial cleaning, at least not in the sense originally thought possible. 

So honestly, if you have him on a homemade diet that is going well and seems to be benefiting his heath - I would likely just stick with that. Particularly if he isn't a fan of the kibble anyway.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

Laurence said:


> Anyone familar with the Fromm brand? I found it recommended on another site.
> 
> What he likes is homemade food. I make him a big pot of chicken soup to which I add brown rice, barley, oats, carrots, and beet tops, cook it all to a mush. I leave the bones and cartilage in, and add flax seed oil too. Then I freeze it in meal-sized bags. Then I add hot water so he gets a warm meal in the morning. He is a very happy 13 1/2 year old mutt, and I have noticed that his joints are much less stiff and his coat looks great.
> 
> I look forward to your thoughts on this.


Welcome to DF.

Do a search on Fromm, there is a lot of threads regarding this brand.

Do you feed the cooked bones or take them out? Cooked bones are dangerous.


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## Laurence (Nov 16, 2008)

Patt said:


> Welcome to DF.
> 
> Do a search on Fromm, there is a lot of threads regarding this brand.
> 
> Do you feed the cooked bones or take them out? Cooked bones are dangerous.


I used to take out the bones, but recently I haven't been. I figured that dogs are related to coyotes, and they eat the bones of small critters they catch, so I thought it would be nutritious. Should I stop?


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I don't think the coyotes typically cook their prey.

Cooking bones makes them brittle and potentially deadly.


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## Laurence (Nov 16, 2008)

RonE said:


> I don't think the coyotes typically cook their prey.
> 
> Cooking bones makes them brittle and potentially deadly.


Thanks for letting me know, I'll stop leaving them in


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Laurence said:


> Thanks for letting me know, I'll stop leaving them in


You can feed them to him raw. (That's how the coyotes eat them.) Raw bones are fine; it's the cooked bones that can splinter and cause problems.


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