# Serious Dog Show people - what do you feed?



## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

I was watching the Animal Planet dog show and couldn't help notice how good those dogs looked! I know the amount of grooming involved, etc., but I can't help but wonder how much of the glowing good looks is food.

So, I ask, dog show people - What do you feed - including supplements?


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

kelliope said:


> I was watching the Animal Planet dog show and couldn't help notice how good those dogs looked! I know the amount of grooming involved, etc., but I can't help but wonder how much of the glowing good looks is food.
> 
> So, I ask, dog show people - What do you feed - including supplements?


I feed raw and I dont do a lot of supplementing.... fish oil mostly to keep the coat shiny.... 

I think if you asked this you would get the same variety of results that you would get on the board.... the show folks that I know feed a variety of foods 
Most of my friends feed raw..... but 
others feed Pro-Plan (pretty popular amongst show folks) 
Innova
Canidae
Eagle
Iams and Eukaneuba 
whats the cream bag with the green at the top.... thats another one I see alot of is that Canidae?? ..... but these are the bags I see alot of at the shows.... 

The one consistent that I think most of us do is fish oil..... most of us give extra fish oil to supplement the coats....

We also all make sure that our dogs are not fat (well most breeds aren't fat) 
and that they are health and in good shape.... 

the thing is that while food is a big part of a dog looking great.... they are what they eat so to speak.... there is also the fact that these dogs are well cared for in other ways as well.... they are in shape and get plenty of exercise.... they are clean and well groomed..... and eating a good is a plus.... 

I can tell you what bags I don't see at the rings..... 
Beneful, kibbles and bits, alpo..... while I am sure that people use them.... I don't generally see them..... 

So better quality kibble or raw or something like honest kitchen but despite what anyone says there is more to a health dog that just food..... 

s


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## JeanninePC99 (Jul 24, 2007)

I think some of the companies sponsor show dogs and give the food to the owners for free. 

I run into a Canidae sponsored dog owner all the time at Pet Supplies Plus and he just flashes a large, laminated card that Canidae gave him and his food is free (I'm sure it wasn't that easy the first few times he showed up there).


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm pretty much the same as Shalva in feeding ( however we are yet to get into a ring as of right this moment)
The boxer I co-owned was on a bizarre diet.
Breeder insisted we fed, Kirkland, adding in, yogurt, pumpkin, spirulina, fish oil and there was something else too... oh yeah flax oil

Slight thread jack in process after this*

Shalva, what kind of fish oil are you using?


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

Eagle. We've fed Eagle since it came out:



















I love how it works for my dogs, but I know it isn't the food for every dog. I am a firm believer in "Feed What Works." For us, Eagle works, but for others, they may prefer something else. As long as it isn't Kibbles N Bits or Ol' Roy or something equally filled with junk and chemicals, and your dog does well on it (or on raw, if you are so inclined and do your homework on it), then that is the right food.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

Thanks for the replies!

My Chi's are kept very fit and I agree that is a big part of their health. I saw the guy with the pug (it was the cutest pug I've ever seen!) and he had the pug on a doggie treadmill.

My dogs hike with me every other day approx. 2 hours, and on the off days we do field running at the barn (practicing recalls, coursing, etc.) so they are quite fit.

Is Pro-Plan a good kibble? I'll have to look that up...


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

I have read many posts on dog food (and yes, there are many opinions on what is best) and I see fish oil a lot.

Where would I find what is used for a dog? Can i use it for my cat as well (who won't eat anything but dry...strange cat!)?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

You can use regular human-grade fish oil capsules from any place that sells them. I get the BIG bottle at Sam's Club. Consumer Reports did tests and found that none of the fish oil capsules sold in stores had mercury in them, so that's not a worry. I figure fish oil is fish oil  .


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Willowy said:


> You can use regular human-grade fish oil capsules from any place that sells them. I get the BIG bottle at Sam's Club. Consumer Reports did tests and found that none of the fish oil capsules sold in stores had mercury in them, so that's not a worry. I figure fish oil is fish oil  .


I'm assuming you just give them the pill...


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Yup, just the oil-filled capsules. I used to get mine at Costco, the giant bottle since both humans and dogs take fish oil at our house. B

ut my little dogs got picky about the capsules and started spitting them out around the house...ewwwww!! So I switched the dogs to Grizzly Salmon Oil which I can purchase locally or through JeffersPet.com or many other places online...if I am placing an online order for other stuff it is cheaper to purchase online rather than in our little boutique-y pet places here. 

So as not to hijack...we are not currently showing any dogs, but have in the past. Our breeder is currently feeding Solid Gold, Barking at the Moon flavor. We usually feed raw now, and have been for about the last 3 years. I can do it for far less than the >$1/pound high end kibble was costing me, and I can control the ingredients. However, when we recently went on vacation and left the dogs with a sitter (didn't expect them to feed raw) I had sticker shock over the Solid Gold so we went with Taste of the Wild, on the advice of another local breeder.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> I'm assuming you just give them the pill...


Toby and Moose will eat the pills, no problem. Penny will carry it around in her mouth for a while, then spit it out and roll on it , which can get messy if it breaks open. So I put it down her throat or squeeze it into her food. I bite the capsule open and squeeze it onto the cat's food occasionally. It's too big for the cats to swallow.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Thanks Willowy!


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## LuvmyRotti (Oct 26, 2007)

I give our Berners Fish Oil capsules as well. We do change our pills around every once in a while. Sometimes, I give them Cod Oil, sometimes Flax. - mostly Salmon. Although I don't show my dogs, i did want to mention the difference I noticed with supplementing with the oils, their coats - it has a sheen. I give them anywhere from 4-6 capsules.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

Does anyone know if Grizzly Salmon Oil for dogs is a good product? It says it's wild Alaskan salmon oil.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

kelliope said:


> Does anyone know if Grizzly Salmon Oil for dogs is a good product? It says it's wild Alaskan salmon oil.


I'd like to know too...and will a place like PetsMart carry it? 

Kelliope...you babies are sooooooooo cute!


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I use Grizzly Salmon Oil and my dogs love it. I love it because they have stopped carrying around the fish oil capsules that I used to put in their food.

In my area the big box stores do not carry the oil probably because it degrades over time, not the longest shelf life. So I find it locally in the small privately owned food pet food stores. You can also get it online at JeffersPet.com as well as many other websites I'm sure. 

I keep mine in the fridge and I wrap the bottle in a brown paper bag. My dogs are small so a bottle lasts quite a while and I don't want the oil to go bad. So keeping it in a cool, dark container is best.

I also bought one of those pour spouts at the kitchen store, like they use on olive oil bottles or on liquer bottles, so I can just drizzle a controlled amount on their food. 

Lastly, if your dogs are not used to fish oil...go slow. My dogs had a bit of loose stools when I first started so I backtracked to just a tiny amount and then worked my way up to maybe a teaspoon per dog 2-3x per week. My dogs are 10 pounds. The Grizzly brand comes with a measured pump so that you get the same amount with each full pump. And they tell you on the label how many pumps to use for different sized dogs. Works great for larger dogs, though I would still start out giving a minimal amount and working up to the suggested amount.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> I'd like to know too...and will a place like PetsMart carry it?
> 
> Kelliope...you babies are sooooooooo cute!


Take a look because I think I saw the grizzly salmon oil at my petsmart the other day. It was in the supplement section.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

I'd be really careful about fish oil in capsules - break them open from time to time and taste/sniff the oil to make sure it hasn't gone rancid. Rancid oil is toxic.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

I'm actually surprised that more dog show people aren't feeding raw or homecooked. Honestly, I find that surprising. The person I know who shows dogs doesn't give anything other than the recommended kibble amount. Seems odd to me that with all the money they have invested in the dogs that they wouldn't be more extreme with foods.


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## LuvmyRotti (Oct 26, 2007)

wyx said:


> I'd be really careful about fish oil in capsules - break them open from time to time and taste/sniff the oil to make sure it hasn't gone rancid. Rancid oil is toxic.


Thanks! I did not know this. I found the following:

Would you eat spoiled fish?

Of course not. But you get the same distasteful and harmful spoilage chemicals if you unknowingly take fish oil capsules that are rancid.

Scientists increasingly worry that the hazard of rancid fish oil supplements is widespread. Recent tests by a team of New Zealand researchers found that many fish oil samples contain "oxidative byproducts," indicating the oil is degrading and becoming rancid.

Taking rancid fish oil is dangerous because it can actually promote instead of prevent heart disease--as well as other chronic diseases. In humans, oxidized fats raise the risk of atherosclerosis and blood clots--even at the low levels found in fish oil capsules, says Rufus Turner, leading oils expert at the University of Reading in the United Kingdom. 

The problem: fish oil is so unstable it starts to oxidize as soon as it is extracted from the fish and exposed to oxygen, metals, light and heat. Further, fish oil begins to go rancid within days, although labels often say it's safe to use it for three or four years.

Consumers usually don't smell or taste the danger, especially when the fish oil is in capsules that conceal the rancidity.

One solution: Fortifying encapsulated oil with antioxidants, mainly vitamin E, blocks the oxidation. But many manufacturers use only alpha tocopherol, the least effective form of E. Far more anti-rancid are combinations of natural tocopherols, rich in gamma and delta-forms of vitamin E. Only premium oils use gamma and delta vitamin E because they are expensive.

*Here's how to protect yourself:*

Test your fish oil capsules by biting into one. It should taste fresh and mildly fishy. If it tastes bad or strong, throw them away and don't buy that brand again. 
Choose brands that include d-gamma and d-delta forms of tocopherols (vitamin E) to prevent harmful oxidation and rancidity. 
Don't buy the cheapest fish oil. It is not apt to be a health bargain. It could harm you more than help you if it lacks purity and adequate antioxidants essential to preserve freshness. 
Only take fish oil supplements that are not rancid.


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

kelliope said:


> I'm actually surprised that more dog show people aren't feeding raw or homecooked. Honestly, I find that surprising. The person I know who shows dogs doesn't give anything other than the recommended kibble amount. Seems odd to me that with all the money they have invested in the dogs that they wouldn't be more extreme with foods.


You seem to be under the assumption that raw and home-cooked are the only ways to go. We've used the same kibble for over 20 years. It was "holistic" before the holistic label got thrown around. Dogs from our household are living 2 1/2 to 3 years LONGER than the breed average, and most of our puppy buyers feed this kibble as well. Why would I change to raw when what I am feeding is working for my dogs and has for over 20 years? 

Your post insinuates that those of us that choose to feed kibble haven't put any thought at all into our choices, and that is often far from true. There are very good alternatives to raw. I always hesitate to get into the raw vs kibble debate because I think that there are never any winners in that discussion. I am not at all anti-raw feeding, but I'm not switching because what we feed has a proven track record for our dogs. 

People should feed their dogs what works for them, but I think it is important for people to not make assumptions about how others choose to feed their dogs.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

wabanafcr said:


> You seem to be under the assumption that raw and home-cooked are the only ways to go.


Yes, I guess I do feel homecooked or raw is the best. That's why I do it. I'm not really passing judgement on what others do in the sense that I condemn them for their choices, rather I'm surprised that more show dog people don't choose raw or homecooked. And I think it is fair to say that I am under the assumption that it's best or I wouldn't be doing it.

I am a bit of a food snob for myself (meaning I choose organic, fresh, whole foods only for myself) and therefore it only makes sense to me to do the same for my dog.

I didn't post this as an insult to anyone choosing to feed kibble or commercial foods (my dogs also get free choice kibble, btw) but I guess I'm starting to wonder if my choices really are the best. My reasoning is that it would seem dog show people would choose the best, yet I don't know of any that choose raw or homecooked. So is it really the best?

My logic says yes. Fresh, whole, nutritious foods are always better than processed. But I do worry that maybe I'm missing something.

As for the rest of your post: I don't care if people make assumptions about my choices in feeding my dogs - why would anyone let someone else's opinion bother them if they think they are doing right by their dog? And what I meant by the "more extreme" in feeding also includes supplements. Maybe it's my horse show background, but most people who show horses supplement the crap out of their horses.

I have to add that it can be really difficult to get advice on dog nutrition from trusted sources. My vet hospital (which is otherwise fantastic) is lacking in nutritional advice. They have chiropractors, Acupuncturists, etc. but no nutritionist. So I'm always left wondering if I'm really doing right by my dogs.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

I don't know any show people, but I do know quite a few working dog people (SAR, Schutzhund) and a lot of them - maybe half - are feeding entirely raw or supplemental raw with a grain-free kibble.


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

But what works for one dog or even one household doesn't necessarily work best for everyone. I know people that feed raw and it works great. I know another person that fed raw and has gone back to kibble because she kept having problems with her meat source and her dogs had repeated and very expensive bouts of e-coli. I know another that tried raw and her dogs had more ear and coat problems than when they were on kibble. There is no "one-size-fits-all" method of feeding! The oldest dog I ever knew was a 21-year-old terrier mix and the danged thing ate Gaines Burgers for his entire life (of course, I think he was simply too mean to consider dying, as he was a nasty little dog!). 

So raw is what you feel is best for your dogs, and that is great for you and for other raw feeders that get great results from that method of feeding, but that doesn't make it best for everyone across the board. Another thing to consider is that there are plenty of households that can't feed raw--mine being one of them. I live with a immuno-compromised individual, and lived with a chemo-taking cancer patient up until 16 months ago when he lost his battle. Raw isn't an option, as I can't take any extra risk of having bacteria around. 

Dog show people are not all created equal--just as regular pet owners are not all created equal. Some do their homework and some do not, so I wouldn't think that dog show people would choose best simply because they are dog show folks. BTW, Shalva feeds raw, as do many of the other show folks on this board. She is a good friend, but we do not argue about food, because we both know that the other has put a lot of thought, effort and experience into the choices made. 

The food I feed is made from human-A-grade ingredients. Ingredients like chicken are made with no added hormones and are antibiotics-free. Grains are herbicide-free. The dry food is manufactured in their own plant, with ingredients from sources that they have contracted with for years and years--sources in the US, with very few ingredients being imported. They don't research on lab animals, but have their own Breeders Advisory Council that helps develop and test their new formulas. It is a good food. 

My dogs don't get supplements, other than the 8-year-old with spondylosis, and she only gets glucosamine/chondroitin. They don't need the supplements because they are fed a complete diet. 

Vets do not take classes in nutrition, which is sad. People are left to fend for themselves, absolutely, and it is difficult to decide sometimes what is right for you because there is a lot of information out there. This is where your own research has to take place, and I agree that it is difficult to find what is right for you. The answer is in your dogs. Do they look great? Correct weight, good coat, bright eyes, good stools, clean ears, clean teeth, correct amount of energy for breed and age, normal vet bills (meaning nothing beyond the usual vet care)? Then what you are doing is working, and you shouldn't change it.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

They do look excellent (but they are still young and most young dogs look excellent!), have great energy, stools, etc. but they refuse to eat any organ meats. No matter what I do. So I end up worrying that they aren't getting the proper nutrition. So I free feed kibble. But then some say if they eat kibble and then eat their raw food that's bad, and so on and so on. And my vet points out that nutritional deficencies sometimes take a long time to show up physically.

So I thought I'd look to the dog show people for advice. But I guess it's the same with that group - differing views, etc.

So here I am. Back at square one.  I guess I was just hoping for that magic answer that would make it easy to know I was doing the best for my dogs.


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

And mine are such piggys that I'd never be able to free-feed anything! LOL! I'd have the fattest Flatcoats in the world.

Talk to Shalva about the organ meats thing...she might know of how you can compensate for that, as she has fed raw for several years and has had dogs that will eat one thing and not the next.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

Thanks wabanafc!


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

wabanafcr said:


> You seem to be under the assumption that raw and home-cooked are the only ways to go. We've used the same kibble for over 20 years. It was "holistic" before the holistic label got thrown around. Dogs from our household are living 2 1/2 to 3 years LONGER than the breed average, and most of our puppy buyers feed this kibble as well. Why would I change to raw when what I am feeding is working for my dogs and has for over 20 years?


What type of food are you feeding that yours are living longer? I'm always game for new stuff...


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## wabanafcr (Jun 28, 2007)

We feed Eagle. We also live in the country and our dogs drink well water that has been tested and certified very pure. We vaccinate, but follow the "every 3 years" protocol. We do treat with Frontline and Interceptor, but really nothing else, and like I said, no supplements for all but 1 of them. 

I think part of it has to do with bloodlines, and we have had our share of cancer (the big killer in Flatcoats), including 3 that died at age 5 of cancer. We are always looking for more longevity, as I think that is the biggest problem our breed faces--bigger than breed type, bigger than temperament. Those things are by far easier to manage, but the longevity issue plagues this breed across the board.

The breed average is between 7 and 8 years of age, which is a shame. Ours tend to live, on average, to 10. My oldest was 13 1/2, and Paddy has bred one that lived to 16 1/2. I just lost my old guy, who was 3 months shy of 12.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Thanks for the info. The puppy in your avatar is so cute...makes me want to go out and get another dog...NOT!


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