# Feeding raw eggs?



## LunarFlame (Jul 6, 2008)

I've read conflicting info on this topic.

Is it safe to feed my puppy raw eggs? We had been putting a raw egg on his food occasionally because I had been told it was good for him, but I googled it, and have found some sources say it is fine, and other say it will not allow the absorption of biotin/vitamin b.

What is correct? I don't want to be harming my puppy!


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

The egg white is what causes the problems with Biotin which is contained in the yolk. You could always boil the egg and give that to your pup. Although I think boiling it will eliminate the biotin in the yolk. You could cook the whites and give the yolk raw. Its all up to you.

I do feed mine raw egg about once a week, I also grind up the shell with a coffee grinder. The shell is needed to keep it balanced for the dog. However they can't digest them if they are not ground, they will come out the same way they went in.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> You could always boil the egg and give that to your pup. Although I think boiling it will eliminate the biotin in the yolk. You could cook the whites and give the yolk raw. Its all up to you.


I think you have it backwards. Raw eggs are fine, cooked ones have the problem with biotin absorption. I feed raw eggs once or twice a week.



> I also grind up the shell with a coffee grinder. The shell is needed to keep it balanced for the dog. However they can't digest them if they are not ground, they will come out the same way they went in.


I used to feed shells with the eggs and they get digested just fine. I would just break the eggs open and put both the insides and the broken shell in the bowl. I never saw any egg shells in the stools. It's no different than digesting bone, only easier.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

RawFedDogs said:


> I think you have it backwards. Raw eggs are fine, cooked ones have the problem with biotin absorption. I feed raw eggs once or twice a week.


No the avidin in *raw* egg whites is what binds biotin and inhibits its absorption. Since cooking the whites denatures the avidin it eliminates that problem. There is no reason why cooking the whites would stop the biotin from being absorbed. 

I really don't think you are in a position to argue with scientist and doctors who have studed the egg itself. The effects on the body in dogs, humans and cats. Including studies over a period of time of raw egg consumption. Unless you have studied this and have documented proof that hasn't yet been published. 



> I used to feed shells with the eggs and they get digested just fine. I would just break the eggs open and put both the insides and the broken shell in the bowl. I never saw any egg shells in the stools. It's no different than digesting bone, only easier.


I used to crack the eggs and throw in the shell they would have egg shell bits in their poop. I'm pretty sure I know what is coming out the backend of my dogs better then you do. After that I tried only smashed up shell and then those same pieces would come out, now that I grind them I haven't had an issue and assume they are being digested. I try to keep the correct balance of calcium and phosphorus levels.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I grind the shells otherwise my dogs poop them out the same way they went in. My little dogs split a whole egg about 2-3 times per week, raw.

Hope this helps those interested in the biotin / avidin issue as well as the nutritional breakdown of the average egg white (don't know why they didn't do the nutritional analysis of a whole egg)...

"Many clinical nutrition books discuss biotin (one of the water soluble vitamin B complex) as being an essential nutrient which can be bound by avidin, which is found in raw egg white. This binding prevents it's absorption from the gastrointestinal tract. Fortunately cooking deactivates this effect of avidin, and egg yolk is so high in biotin content that biotin deficiency does not occur when whole raw eggs are fed. So, whilst biotin deficiency is a potential problem - in reality it is unlikely to be seen in domesticated animals unless they are fed an extremely imbalanced ration that is predominantly egg white.

On the positive side - raw chicken egg white does of course have some nutritional value and contains the following :

88.3% water 
9% protein 
Trace of fat 
Trace of carbohydrate 
Minerals - 
Sodium - 190mg/100g 
Chlorine - 170mg/100g 
Potassium - 150mg/100g 
Phosphorus - 33mg/100g 
Magnesium - 11mg/100g 
Calcium - 5mg/100g 
Vitamins and vitamin precursors 
Tryptophan (an amino acid and niacin precursor in dogs and other species but not cats, mink or fish) - 2.6 mg/100g 
Riboflavin - 0.43 mg/100g 
Pantothenate 0.3 mg/100g 
Folate - 13 mg/100g 
Biotin - 7 mg/100g 
Vitamin C - 0 
Vitamin D -0 
Vitamin E - 0 
No dietary fibre 
36 kcal energy per 100g"


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

I feed my guys raw eggs about twice a week and I just grind the eggshell with my hands. I have never seen any shells in my guys poop hehe they love it doesnt seem like it does anything bad for them. From what I have always read... it's good for them. 
Nessa


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Thanks for the good info post briteday

I figured my dogs couldn't be the only ones pooping out shell bits since I have so many, that'd be too much of a coincidence. 

I feed mine raw eggs about once a week, sometimes twice. DH has given a couple of his a little longer. But since it is still not long term and they get biotin from other sources I don't feel that a deficiency would be a problem. Study which show deficiency was being fed for consecutive days over a period of time.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> Thanks for the good info post briteday
> 
> I figured my dogs couldn't be the only ones pooping out shell bits since I have so many, that'd be too much of a coincidence.
> 
> I feed mine raw eggs about once a week, sometimes twice. DH has given a couple of his a little longer. But since it is still not long term and they get biotin from other sources I don't feel that a deficiency would be a problem. Study which show deficiency was being fed for consecutive days over a period of time.


The biotin is a concern. But I think if you only feed once or twice a week and the dog eats the white and the yolk it is okay. 

I have heard others say they find shell in their dogs poop if they do not crush them. So I am sure it happens. But I have to say I have never seen any shell in my dogs poop. I don't even crack the egg for my Lab. I just hand him the egg. He cracks it in his mouth then chews up the shell.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> I really don't think you are in a position to argue with scientist and doctors who have studed the egg itself.


Hehe, calm down, Spicy ... I'm not arguing with anyone. If you notice the first 2 words in my post were "I think" ... "I think" generally means, I'm not sure but this is my impression. I often make absolute statements were I am sure of what I say. Thats not the case in this statement. 



> I used to crack the eggs and throw in the shell they would have egg shell bits in their poop.


I'm sorry your dogs can't digest egg shells, mine can and do. When I fed eggshells I would drop 2 halves of an egg shell in their bowl along with the rest of the egg as well as other stuff. Back in those days I inspected stools very closely. I decided my dogs were getting more than enough calcium in their diet without egg shells so I stopped feeding them.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

JohnnyBandit said:


> The biotin is a concern. But I think if you only feed once or twice a week and the dog eats the white and the yolk it is okay.
> 
> I have heard others say they find shell in their dogs poop if they do not crush them. So I am sure it happens. But I have to say I have never seen any shell in my dogs poop. I don't even crack the egg for my Lab. I just hand him the egg. He cracks it in his mouth then chews up the shell.


Yeah I don't find it to be a big deal at all, like I said. 

It seems some dogs don't have a problem digesting it. Perhaps different in the way they digest or stomach acid, ect. I'm really not sure. 

Some of mine I didn't crack it either fed it to them outside they just grab it right out of my hand or roll it around a while on the ground then eat it. Others I had to because they don't know what the heck to do with it. They just leave it in the bowl, or sniff it/lick it then can't figure out what its supposed to be. I crack them into each bowl now and add a little ground shell.



RawFedDogs said:


> Hehe, calm down, Spicy ... I'm not arguing with anyone. If you notice the first 2 words in my post were "I think" ... "I think" generally means, I'm not sure but this is my impression. I often make absolute statements were I am sure of what I say. Thats not the case in this statement.
> 
> I'm sorry your dogs can't digest egg shells, mine can and do. When I fed eggshells I would drop 2 halves of an egg shell in their bowl along with the rest of the egg as well as other stuff. Back in those days I inspected stools very closely. I decided my dogs were getting more than enough calcium in their diet without egg shells so I stopped feeding them.


Ok my bad, yeah I do see the I think part. I still assumed that you were disagreeing fully on it. 

I'm sure some do digest it easier then others as with anything else. With mine not being able, some seemed not it is just better to grind it up for them. It looked like paint chips in their stool.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Our dogs love raw eggs and get them about once a week or so. They have had no problems digesting the shells.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> Ok my bad, yeah I do see the I think part. I still assumed that you were disagreeing fully on it.
> 
> Well, you know me. If I had been more sure of my knowledge I would have disagreed more fully.
> 
> ...


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

RawFedDogs said:


> My dogs eat a lot of bone so they are used to digesting that type of material. Maybe thats the reason they digest shells so well. Thats a guess.


My dogs eat up to about 30% bone. What is the highest ratio you feed? How much do they digest? What comes out should be mostly the excess bone anyway but with some of mine I get the undigested larger bone parts in their poop. Ever see that in yours?


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> My dogs eat up to about 30% bone. What is the highest ratio you feed? How much do they digest? What comes out should be mostly the excess bone anyway but with some of mine I get the undigested larger bone parts in their poop. Ever see that in yours?



I am feeding about 65 percent meaty bones. Chicken backs and necks. Other days I feed beef, lamb, venison, etc. 

I never see big chunks of bone in my dogs poop. The evidence I see of bone is whitesh looking poops.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> My dogs eat up to about 30% bone. What is the highest ratio you feed? How much do they digest? What comes out should be mostly the excess bone anyway but with some of mine I get the undigested larger bone parts in their poop. Ever see that in yours?


I would guess that would be about what mine would average. I feed them each 2 chicken backs every morning and they are 44% bone. Other meals would be chicken quarters 35% bone, turkey neck 42% bone, beef heart no bone, pork roast ALMOST no bone, Canned salmon or mackerel verry little bone, beef liver no bone, raw eggs no bone, differnent cuts of venison when I can find it usually with no bone. I almost never see any bone in the stools but most of the bones are chicken and turkey which are comparatively soft bones. 

Sometimes I see tiny specks that are about half the sice of a pin head. Are those little bone fragments? I don't know. They are pretty well covered in fecal matter so they aren't white and I can't tell if they are bone fragments or not and don't care enough to go into deeper inspection.  They are very very very tiny.

I really wouldn't be concerned if I saw bone fragments a half inch or smaller. I used to see those in the early days of raw feeding
'



JohnnyBandit said:


> I am feeding about 65 percent meaty bones. Chicken backs and necks. Other days I feed beef, lamb, venison, etc.
> 
> I never see big chunks of bone in my dogs poop. The evidence I see of bone is whitesh looking poops.


Chicken produces a yellowish/orangish color stool. That is normal. White poop coming right out of the anus is a symptom of feeding too much bone. It's normal for poop to turn white and powdery in a day or two.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I would guess that would be about what mine would average. I feed them each 2 chicken backs every morning and they are 44% bone. Other meals would be chicken quarters 35% bone, turkey neck 42% bone, beef heart no bone, pork roast ALMOST no bone, Canned salmon or mackerel verry little bone, beef liver no bone, raw eggs no bone, differnent cuts of venison when I can find it usually with no bone. I almost never see any bone in the stools but most of the bones are chicken and turkey which are comparatively soft bones.
> 
> Sometimes I see tiny specks that are about half the sice of a pin head. Are those little bone fragments? I don't know. They are pretty well covered in fecal matter so they aren't white and I can't tell if they are bone fragments or not and don't care enough to go into deeper inspection.  They are very very very tiny.
> 
> ...


That sounds about right. My dogs eat at night and usually poop after dark. I pick up the poops every couple of days. Some are whitish. Some aren't


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

RawFedDogs said:


> I would guess that would be about what mine would average. I feed them each 2 chicken backs every morning and they are 44% bone. Other meals would be chicken quarters 35% bone, turkey neck 42% bone, beef heart no bone, pork roast ALMOST no bone, Canned salmon or mackerel verry little bone, beef liver no bone, raw eggs no bone, differnent cuts of venison when I can find it usually with no bone. I almost never see any bone in the stools but most of the bones are chicken and turkey which are comparatively soft bones.
> 
> Sometimes I see tiny specks that are about half the sice of a pin head. Are those little bone fragments? I don't know. They are pretty well covered in fecal matter so they aren't white and I can't tell if they are bone fragments or not and don't care enough to go into deeper inspection.  They are very very very tiny.
> 
> ...


Here is some with most of the rest of the poo gone away









I have had some bigger but the dog is the one who isn't chewing very well, like a 3rd of a bone probably. I had one that has been on raw pretty much her whole life and chews pretty good, takes her time to eat then one day when I fed her she started gulping down trying to swallow hole pieces for whatever reason. 

For the boneless meat I will add bone to that (except for the organ meat I just feed with everything else), usually chicken bones or add some of the ground egg shell. To keep it balanced. Sometimes I mix too, they will have meat with bone and some other meat added so it is balanced enough for them.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

JohnnyBandit said:


> That sounds about right. My dogs eat at night and usually poop after dark. I pick up the poops every couple of days. Some are whitish. Some aren't


What they ate for the meal that is being eliminated determines what happens. When I feed my dogs a meal of beef heart, the stools are black and never turn white. They are also longer and narrower than the chicken stools.



Spicy1_VV said:


> Here is some with most of the rest of the poo gone away


Mine have never had stools with anywhere near that much bone in them. Even in the beginning.



> I have had some bigger but the dog is the one who isn't chewing very well, like a 3rd of a bone probably. I had one that has been on raw pretty much her whole life and chews pretty good, takes her time to eat then one day when I fed her she started gulping down trying to swallow hole pieces for whatever reason.


Dogs don't chew like humans. Humans(omnivores) chew our food into a mush before we swallow. There are digestive juices in our salava and digestion begins in the mouth.

Dogs(carnivores), on the other hand, only crunch, riip, and tear their food until it is small enough to fit down their throat. Amazingly large pieces of stuff will fit down their throats. My dogs can swallow a chicken quarter whole, no problem. Anyway ... digestion in a dog doesn't begin until the food reaches the stomach.

As long as the food isn't coming back up, she is chewing enough. It's not unusual for one of my dogs to swallow a chicken drumstick without one crunch. (They steal them from the cats).



> For the boneless meat I will add bone to that (except for the organ meat I just feed with everything else), usually chicken bones or add some of the ground egg shell.


I suggest when you feed boneless meat, not to add more bone. Your dogs are getting more than enough bone in their diet without doing that. I would also stop feeding the egg shells. Considering all the bones they are eating, what little calcium you get from egg shells are not contributing anything nutritionally. 

It's not necessary to feed bone with every meal. I feed two and sometimes 3 boneless meals a week. Don't worry about balancing every meal. Balance over time. Time can be a week or a month or whatever you want it to be, even 3 months. 



> To keep it balanced. Sometimes I mix too, they will have meat with bone and some other meat added so it is balanced enough for them.


I feed a variety of animal parts from a variety of animals and never give a thought to balance. Balance will work out over time. Perfect balance is impossible to feed and not really critical. Most excesses of most nutrients are eliminated from the body anyway.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

RawFedDogs said:


> Mine have never had stools with anywhere near that much bone in them. Even in the beginning.


Interesting. Not all mine have the same either.



> Dogs don't chew like humans. Humans(omnivores) chew our food into a mush before we swallow. There are digestive juices in our salava and digestion begins in the mouth.
> 
> Dogs(carnivores), on the other hand, only crunch, riip, and tear their food until it is small enough to fit down their throat. Amazingly large pieces of stuff will fit down their throats. My dogs can swallow a chicken quarter whole, no problem. Anyway ... digestion in a dog doesn't begin until the food reaches the stomach.
> 
> As long as the food isn't coming back up, she is chewing enough. It's not unusual for one of my dogs to swallow a chicken drumstick without one crunch. (They steal them from the cats).


Yes I'm aware of how I eat.  As well as how my dogs eat. I never said they need to chew it up into "mush" like humans. I never meant to imply that. Most my dogs can't swallow a chicken quarter whole. When I see a 18lbs dog who's eaten fine before try gulping down the whole parts "choking" gagging and regurgitating a few times I will grab it and hold it until they start to go at it properly. Since she didn't chew at all IMO she isn't chewing enough. Maybe I was not clear that she grabbed and tried to swallow the food. They need to chew some at least mine do they are after all dogs and not monitors or tegus by any means. One of my males has tried a few times to swallow chicken legs and they always never make it down coming back out of his throat mouth. Is that what you mean by "coming back up" or do you mean like eating it then puking it back up? His daughter also tried the same a few times. 



> I suggest when you feed boneless meat, not to add more bone. Your dogs are getting more than enough bone in their diet without doing that. I would also stop feeding the egg shells. Considering all the bones they are eating, what little calcium you get from egg shells are not contributing anything nutritionally.
> 
> It's not necessary to feed bone with every meal. I feed two and sometimes 3 boneless meals a week. Don't worry about balancing every meal. Balance over time. Time can be a week or a month or whatever you want it to be, even 3 months.


I will add more bone/egg shell to most as I don't like a softer stool. Not as easy to pick up and nasty if I don't pick it up and step in it. I especially don't like the ones that burst out, yuck. Really nasty with organ meat and boneless meat together. 

Anyway they are really not getting too much bone, they get the right amount of bones for each dog. Most are pretty much the same (which is varied from more or less with each meal) and a few differ to where they are kept within close ranges. 

Egg shells have what 1.5-2.5 grams of calcium as compared to I believe 3-6grams found in most chicken bones. Depending on the shells. (I'm willing to bet mine probably have more and are healthier/better quality then commercially available eggs.) 

Yes an egg shell is less but still enough to matter some, if I feed two of my large eggs then it would probably be 5grams, so similar enough to bone. So they are nutritionally contributing 5 grams of calcium. 

Raw diet is all about not being overly balanced or rigid, that is why they get somewhat varied amount and varied meat sources. Although it is up to each person to do as little or as much "balance" as they see fit. 



> I feed a variety of animal parts from a variety of animals and never give a thought to balance. Balance will work out over time. Perfect balance is impossible to feed and not really critical. Most excesses of most nutrients are eliminated from the body anyway.


As do eye, but I care if it is what I feel is needed/what the dog does best on. Balance from one dog to another varies. Such as I have one dog that doesn't do well with over 15- maybe 25% bone (gets constipated). Another that every other day I add extra bone (not much at all just a little bit) or he will have runny looser darker stool. One male that eats on average more beef, especially steak trimming/fat, and the higher fat ground beef and brisket with the fatty parts and more deer/antelope it is what he does best with. 

I never try to attain perfect balance or be ultra critical. I like to know exactly what is going into them and I keep good records. If I do not know exactly what they ate/the amount, what specific excercise and work they did/the amount time and/or distance, any other supplements, treats that they ate/drank, how much they weighted and not exactly but about how much fluid intake they had I will not be able to replicate it again or know what produced the best results or simply the results period. I'd be totally lost and just winging it or blind.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> Most my dogs can't swallow a chicken quarter whole.


I doubt your dog are not as big as mine either (145lbs). Don't misunderstand me, they don't swallow without crunching them pretty good but they are in one piece when they go down the hatch.



> When I see a 18lbs dog who's eaten fine before try gulping down the whole parts "choking" gagging and regurgitating a few times I will grab it and hold it until they start to go at it properly.


My dogs occasionally do this when they misjudge the size of something. They bring it back, chew it a little more and re-swallow. I never intefere with it. It's how they learn to guage how large of a piece they can swallow.



> Since she didn't chew at all IMO she isn't chewing enough. Maybe I was not clear that she grabbed and tried to swallow the food. They need to chew some at least mine do they are after all dogs and not monitors or tegus by any means. One of my males has tried a few times to swallow chicken legs and they always never make it down coming back out of his throat mouth.


If they are swallowing without crunching some, feed larger pieces so they HAVE to crunch them. My dogs always swallow a drumstick whole but I never feed them drumsticks. Occasionally one gets lucky and is able to steal one from the cats. If you feed a piece large enough that they can't get it all in their mouth, problem solved. 



> Is that what you mean by "coming back up" or do you mean like eating it then puking it back up? His daughter also tried the same a few times.


Yes ... most times my dogs don't regurgitate it all the way to the ground but only back into their mouth and they chew it some more. Occasionally it will go all the way to the ground. They will always re-eat it, crunching it a little more.



> I will add more bone/egg shell to most as I don't like a softer stool. Not as easy to pick up and nasty if I don't pick it up and step in it.


My dogs stools will be a little softer when eating a boneless meal but still well formed and firm. Living out in the country like I do, I don't have to pick them up.  I do a poop patrol in my yard maybe twice a year if that much. Usually the stools just go away on their own if we have enough rain.



> I especially don't like the ones that burst out, yuck. Really nasty with organ meat and boneless meat together.


Well, thats a simple one ... don't feed organs with a boneless meal. 



> Anyway they are really not getting too much bone, they get the right amount of bones for each dog. Most are pretty much the same (which is varied from more or less with each meal) and a few differ to where they are kept within close ranges.


You are the one looking at their stools but the picture you posted a few posts back were from a dog that was fed too much bone.



> Egg shells have what 1.5-2.5 grams of calcium as compared to I believe 3-6grams found in most chicken bones. Depending on the shells. (I'm willing to bet mine probably have more and are healthier/better quality then commercially available eggs.)


If you are feeding a diet that is 30% bone, your dogs are getting plenty enough calcium that they don't need any more from egg shells. Most places I see say a dog doesn't need but around 10% to 15% bone in their diet. Of course you know i am feeding more than that also. I'm not saying that you are feeding them so much calcium as to be unhealthy, just that I don't think they need the little amount they would get from the shells. I don't think leaving off the shells would make one bit of difference in their stools or their overall health.



> Yes an egg shell is less but still enough to matter some, if I feed two of my large eggs then it would probably be 5grams, so similar enough to bone. So they are nutritionally contributing 5 grams of calcium.


BUT ... if you are already over feeding them calcium then feeding a little more doesn't contribute anything. Thats the point I have been trying to make. If an animal is getting as much of any nutrient that he needs, adding more does nothing nutritionally.



> Raw diet is all about not being overly balanced or rigid, that is why they get somewhat varied amount and varied meat sources. Although it is up to each person to do as little or as much "balance" as they see fit.
> 
> As do eye, but I care if it is what I feel is needed/what the dog does best on. Balance from one dog to another varies. Such as I have one dog that doesn't do well with over 15- maybe 25% bone (gets constipated). Another that every other day I add extra bone (not much at all just a little bit) or he will have runny looser darker stool.


If you have a dog who has a looser darker stool when being fed the same as the others, you have a dog that could possibly have a problem in the GI tract. Darker stool usually means blood in the stool, most likely from the stomach or the first part of the small intestine. A stool that is more red in color would indicate blood coming from the large intestines.



> One male that eats on average more beef, especially steak trimming/fat, and the higher fat ground beef and brisket with the fatty parts and more deer/antelope it is what he does best with.


A dog that eats more beef/deer/antelope SHOULD have a darker stool than a dog eating more chicken.



> I never try to attain perfect balance or be ultra critical. I like to know exactly what is going into them and I keep good records. If I do not know exactly what they ate/the amount, what specific excercise and work they did/the amount time and/or distance, any other supplements, treats that they ate/drank, how much they weighted and not exactly but about how much fluid intake they had I will not be able to replicate it again or know what produced the best results or simply the results period. I'd be totally lost and just winging it or blind.


Heck, I don't even keep up with how much I pay for the food. Hehe ... Your dogs must be hunters or in some kind of competition. Mine are just two of the most wonderful companions anyone could want.  I don't even plan meals more than 1/2 day ahead. I just reach in the freezer and pull out something I haven't fed for a while. Of course there are the backs each morning so I guess that part is planned.


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## Jake Jackson (Sep 6, 2008)

I think I may have missed it in all the discussion of digesting shells and what not, but whats the primary purpose of feeding raw eggs?

And is it something I should consider with a 2 month old puppy, or something to consider later on in his life stages?


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

RawFedDogs said:


> I doubt your dog are not as big as mine either (145lbs). Don't misunderstand me, they don't swallow without crunching them pretty good but they are in one piece when they go down the hatch.


I'm not sure what you mean? You mean they are or arn't as big? 
My largest dog is about 120lbs, she is actually the one that has to chew and crunch everything up and practically dissect what she eats. After she shakes it around and "kills" it. My other bigger dog is probably in the 70s. She eats big hunks like nothing, chews them up some of course. She is the type to carry each piece away and eat on it. Sometimes take all the pieces out of her bowl before she starts to eat them. My smallest dogs now are 24-26lbs. The rest are mostly around give or take 35lbs. Then some that are 40s and a couple in the 50s. 



> My dogs occasionally do this when they misjudge the size of something. They bring it back, chew it a little more and re-swallow. I never intefere with it. It's how they learn to guage how large of a piece they can swallow.


That is pretty much what they do. When she was having trouble I did interfere and don't regret it. The other male/daughter they do it at times which I just let them spit it up and then re eat it, I'm not going to get my hands nasty and slimy for no reason. His son actually does it too with the trying to swallow but doesn't spit it up nearly that often because he can get a big piece down really with minimal chewing.



> If they are swallowing without crunching some, feed larger pieces so they HAVE to crunch them. My dogs always swallow a drumstick whole but I never feed them drumsticks. Occasionally one gets lucky and is able to steal one from the cats. If you feed a piece large enough that they can't get it all in their mouth, problem solved.


Then I'd be overfeeding them I believe as it'd be way more food then what they need, at least for some. They can get most things in their mouth, especially once chewing on it. The food that is rather large/bulky where they can't exactly fit the whole piece they will just chew on it and get a big hunk off that they can fit in their mouth which leads to the same thing.



> Yes ... most times my dogs don't regurgitate it all the way to the ground but only back into their mouth and they chew it some more. Occasionally it will go all the way to the ground. They will always re-eat it, crunching it a little more.


That is how mine mostly are, to the mouth sometime out to the ground where they drop it but usually not. 



> My dogs stools will be a little softer when eating a boneless meal but still well formed and firm. Living out in the country like I do, I don't have to pick them up. I do a poop patrol in my yard maybe twice a year if that much. Usually the stools just go away on their own if we have enough rain.


Yes of course they would be because there isn't any bone. I live out in the country as well with plenty of acres but I still don't want so much poop all over my yard or even in their yards/play areas. You only have a couple dogs, since I have 10xs the dogs you do that is a heck of a lot more poop. I'm sure if I only had 2 dogs it wouldn't be a big deal. We had an inspection in winter with poop frozen in the snow which they thought we should somehow find a way to melt around it and pick it up. 



> Well, thats a simple one ... don't feed organs with a boneless meal.


Hmmmm no kidding. 



> You are the one looking at their stools but the picture you posted a few posts back were from a dog that was fed too much bone.


So how much bone would you say would have been correct? 

I do not feel the same. Some digest it better then others. Just as with the egg shells. If they have white or real light poop, problems going or too hard of poop that is when I judge if they have too much bone. 



> If you are feeding a diet that is 30% bone, your dogs are getting plenty enough calcium that they don't need any more from egg shells. Most places I see say a dog doesn't need but around 10% to 15% bone in their diet. Of course you know i am feeding more than that also. I'm not saying that you are feeding them so much calcium as to be unhealthy, just that I don't think they need the little amount they would get from the shells. I don't think leaving off the shells would make one bit of difference in their stools or their overall health.


They do not get a diet that is always 30% bone, they usually just get up to that, occasionally a little more but usually that is around the max. It is varied from less to more depending on what meat they eat and how much bone is in it. They also get meals with ground beef, ground turkey or canned fish added which has little or no bone. So that takes down the percentage. 



> BUT ... if you are already over feeding them calcium then feeding a little more doesn't contribute anything. Thats the point I have been trying to make. If an animal is getting as much of any nutrient that he needs, adding more does nothing nutritionally.


Ok now I understand what you are saying. However if they have 1lb of meat and 1 - 2 egg shells I don't think that is too much calcium for that meal. 



> If you have a dog who has a looser darker stool when being fed the same as the others, you have a dog that could possibly have a problem in the GI tract. Darker stool usually means blood in the stool, most likely from the stomach or the first part of the small intestine. A stool that is more red in color would indicate blood coming from the large intestines.


It isn't reddish nor anything that is typically seen with blood in the stool. Its not dark dark, just kind of darkish, hard to explain. I'm not sure what type of problem? I mean what would be the reason or at least the symptoms? It is always possible but I believe improvable. I really don't think it is odd for some dogs to need something a little different then the others. 



> A dog that eats more beef/deer/antelope SHOULD have a darker stool than a dog eating more chicken.


Wow no kidding. That is because they are darker meats. 



> Heck, I don't even keep up with how much I pay for the food. Hehe ... Your dogs must be hunters or in some kind of competition. Mine are just two of the most wonderful companions anyone could want.  I don't even plan meals more than 1/2 day ahead. I just reach in the freezer and pull out something I haven't fed for a while. Of course there are the backs each morning so I guess that part is planned.


Everyone has their own ways. Yeah that is my dogs, most dogs are not the couch potato pet variety. I don't have a problem with companion dogs of course, they are great. A couple of mine are actually just pets as it worked out that way with them even if that wasn't the plan. I like to have enough meat prepared ahead of time where I don't have to stop in the day and do it because of the time consumption.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 22, 2008)

Jake Jackson said:


> I think I may have missed it in all the discussion of digesting shells and what not, but whats the primary purpose of feeding raw eggs?


Nutrition



> And is it something I should consider with a 2 month old puppy, or something to consider later on in his life stages?


It depends on what else you feed. Most of us that feed eggs only feed an egg once or twice a week with a meal.



Spicy1_VV said:


> I'm not sure what you mean? You mean they are or arn't as big?


I mean your dogs probably aren't as big as mine so they may not be able to swallow a whole chicken quarter.



> You only have a couple dogs, since I have 10xs the dogs you do that is a heck of a lot more poop. I'm sure if I only had 2 dogs it wouldn't be a big deal.


Yes, the number of dogs you have would make a bit of a difference. 



> So how much bone would you say would have been correct?


Enough so they could digest it all without pooping out so much of it.



> I do not feel the same. Some digest it better then others. Just as with the egg shells. If they have white or real light poop, problems going or too hard of poop that is when I judge if they have too much bone.


I use the same methods of judging how much bone to feed but when fragments begin appearing in stools, thats another sign to me that a dog was fed more bone than he was capable of digesting. I guess It's not really that big a deal, but it sure scares a lot of people when they see bone fragments in stools. I get a lot of email about that.



> They do not get a diet that is always 30% bone, they usually just get up to that, occasionally a little more but usually that is around the max. It is varied from less to more depending on what meat they eat and how much bone is in it. They also get meals with ground beef, ground turkey or canned fish added which has little or no bone. So that takes down the percentage.


OK, I misunderstood. I thought bone was 30% of the total diet. 



> Ok now I understand what you are saying. However if they have 1lb of meat and 1 - 2 egg shells I don't think that is too much calcium for that meal.


OK, here is where we differ a little in our thinking. Don't worry about how much calcium is in a meal. Worry about how much calcium the dogs get in a week or a month. I feed 2 or 3 boneless meal each week but I am very confident that my dogs get more than enough bone in a week. I haven't found that a boneless meal produces that softer of a stool. I rarely feed 2 boneless meals back to back.



> It isn't reddish nor anything that is typically seen with blood in the stool. Its not dark dark, just kind of darkish, hard to explain. I'm not sure what type of problem? I mean what would be the reason or at least the symptoms?


Darker stools COULD mean blood in the stool. If it's blacker and not redder, it can mean blood from the stomach or small intestine which would mean and inflamed or irritated stomach or small intestine. It may or may not be serious, just something to be aware of and keep an eye on that dog.



> It is always possible but I believe improvable. I really don't think it is odd for some dogs to need something a little different then the others.


I agree and a consistantly darker stool may not mean anything but it COULD.. 



> Everyone has their own ways. Yeah that is my dogs, most dogs are not the couch potato pet variety. I don't have a problem with companion dogs of course, they are great.


Hehe, mine are pretty much couch potatoes.  They will go outside with me when I'm working in the yard providing i'm not working with something that makes a lot of noise like a lawm mower or blower or weed eater. LOL The back door is always open so they can go out into the fenced back yard anytime they want but seem to prefer to be where ever i am. I walk them 1.5 miles a day but that is nothing for a dog.



> I like to have enough meat prepared ahead of time where I don't have to stop in the day and do it because of the time consumption.


I'm sure I have it much easier with just 2 dogs but I break everything down into meal size portions when I bring it home. Tomorrow I am picking up 40 lbs of chicken backs and 30lbs of beef heart. I will put them into meal size zip locks as soon as I get them home. It makes things a lot easier. I don't have a clue how I would handle it for the number of dogs you have.

Have you ever fed whole animals like a goat or pig and just let your dogs eat the carcass? I know a few people who do that regularly. One lady drags a whole pig into her pasture and lets the dogs eat on it for several days. 

Another lady will drag a goat into her back yard and lets her dogs devour it. She says is that you MUST have more food than the dogs will eat in a single serving to prevent fights. She has about 14 or so dogs. Anyway, I thought that was interesting.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

RawFedDogs said:


> I use the same methods of judging how much bone to feed but when fragments begin appearing in stools, thats another sign to me that a dog was fed more bone than he was capable of digesting. I guess It's not really that big a deal, but it sure scares a lot of people when they see bone fragments in stools. I get a lot of email about that.


It doesn't bother me at all. 



> OK, here is where we differ a little in our thinking. Don't worry about how much calcium is in a meal. Worry about how much calcium the dogs get in a week or a month. I feed 2 or 3 boneless meal each week but I am very confident that my dogs get more than enough bone in a week. I haven't found that a boneless meal produces that softer of a stool. I rarely feed 2 boneless meals back to back.


We sure to. I too bet they are getting enough bone because of the amount of bone you feed in the other meals. Mine is varied from less to more. I know who gets what, how much, ect. I suppose adding 1 boneless meal per week for everyone or most everyone would not be that hard to incorporate but I don't think it is an absolute must. 



> Darker stools COULD mean blood in the stool. If it's blacker and not redder, it can mean blood from the stomach or small intestine which would mean and inflamed or irritated stomach or small intestine. It may or may not be serious, just something to be aware of and keep an eye on that dog.


Its not anything like that. It is just darker then what I'd expect or typically used to. It is also soft or even a bit runny when he gets less bone. 



> Hehe, mine are pretty much couch potatoes.  They will go outside with me when I'm working in the yard providing i'm not working with something that makes a lot of noise like a lawm mower or blower or weed eater. LOL The back door is always open so they can go out into the fenced back yard anytime they want but seem to prefer to be where ever i am. I walk them 1.5 miles a day but that is nothing for a dog.


LOL several of mine like to go after weed eaters and lawn more tires. I like to do that too and let them out with me with I'm doing something. 



> I'm sure I have it much easier with just 2 dogs but I break everything down into meal size portions when I bring it home. Tomorrow I am picking up 40 lbs of chicken backs and 30lbs of beef heart. I will put them into meal size zip locks as soon as I get them home. It makes things a lot easier. I don't have a clue how I would handle it for the number of dogs you have.


That is what I do except I don't create more waste and use zip locks, although one of my friends does that. I use plastic containers. I try to do it a week ahead of time, more if I have the time to. That way I can just grab out the correct meal size for the dog and put it in the bowl. The organ meat I just put into one container and add it to the pre measured meals. 



> Have you ever fed whole animals like a goat or pig and just let your dogs eat the carcass? I know a few people who do that regularly. One lady drags a whole pig into her pasture and lets the dogs eat on it for several days.


Yes on goat. I don't have pigs, nor do I want them. Had a friend who them and IMO they are nasty. Goats are clean and easy to keep. 

I want sheep but DH doesn't like how they feed. They are a bit more work too. I only want a few though. 



> Another lady will drag a goat into her back yard and lets her dogs devour it. She says is that you MUST have more food than the dogs will eat in a single serving to prevent fights. She has about 14 or so dogs. Anyway, I thought that was interesting.


LOL I guess with hers that would not apply to mine. Most of mine would fight even if it was a 3 ton elephant. Some would be fine if they felt like sharing and it was plenty. I just wouldn't put them in that situation. One didn't work out as a hunter because she would attack the other catch dogs when coming right up on the hog.


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## charlievan (Jul 21, 2009)

Spicy1_VV said:


> No the avidin in *raw* egg whites is what binds biotin and inhibits its absorption. Since cooking the whites denatures the avidin it eliminates that problem. There is no reason why cooking the whites would stop the biotin from being absorbed.
> 
> I really don't think you are in a position to argue with scientist and doctors who have studed the egg itself. The effects on the body in dogs, humans and cats. Including studies over a period of time of raw egg consumption. Unless you have studied this and have documented proof that hasn't yet been published.
> 
> I used to crack the eggs and throw in the shell they would have egg shell bits in their poop. I'm pretty sure I know what is coming out the backend of my dogs better then you do. After that I tried only smashed up shell and then those same pieces would come out, now that I grind them I haven't had an issue and assume they are being digested. I try to keep the correct balance of calcium and phosphorus levels.


Well to put this all in perspective first feeding your dog 1 raw egg a day is not going to create a Biotin deficiency. It would take multiple eggs daily for 30 days to just start a deficiency,but if its a concern to you then just buy pasturized eggs that way the nutritional value is intact but the eggs have been heated to denature the Avidin, or better yet do it yourself at home as I do for my raw eggs and my dogs raw eggs. google E-How how to home pasturize eggs. All you need to do to denature the avidin protien is heat the eggs to 140 degree's for 4 minutes and cool, thats all it takes the egg doesnot start to cook till 160 degree's so you still have a perfect raw egg with no fear of Biotin deficiency or salmonella.


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