# New "agility classes" thread



## GottaLuvMutts

I'm reviving (or restarting) the old thread "agility classes" because I miss it. For those that missed that thread, it was about progress/brags/problems in members' agility classes.

I'll start:

The wet/cold season has meant a hiatus from disc training, so we've been concentrating on agility for the last few months. Classes couldn't be better: the instructor is fabulous - I love how organized and resourceful she is, and how I never know what challenge I'll face on any given week until I get there. Agility class is like the highlight of my week.

Come to think of it, agility class is the highlight of Kit's week, too. Sometime I'll have to record and post here her screams of joy (no better way to describe it) as we pull into the training facility. 

I love, love, love the drive that Kit has on course. She eats ground like a greyhound. I'm loving this stage of her training, because as she becomes slightly more independent and is starting to read me better, I'm starting to be able to think about my next move instead of worrying about her. She's got a nice balance of equipment focus vs. handler focus. Her weaves are the envy of many, and her only Q so far is in a NADAC weavers course.

Our challenges lately are start-line stays (complete with lots of backtalk from her), distance work, directionals, and getting her up to her regular jump height (20"). A few weeks ago we went thru a stage (around 3 weeks) of naughtiness where she basically just wanted to make up her own courses and run around out of control. That seems to have passed, though.

Our second, third, and fourth trials (all NADAC) are coming up, starting about 3 weeks from now. I'm excited to finally get to run Kit in some standard novice NADAC courses, rather than in games trials where all levels run the same course (so courses are beyond us both).


----------



## Sibe

Awesome! I've been doing agility since last October with Denali. She was almost 8 months when we started I think, and just turned 13 months. A few weeks ago we got the weave poles down, the last obstacle we had to conquer! Obviously still working on consistency and distance but she gets it right 90% of the time. Distance on all obstacles is something we need to work on. Been taking it easy overall because of her age, class once a week and I go in for extra practice about once a week. We're about to take an entire month off though because I'm moving.

What needs to or should be done before competing? I plan on getting x-rays done in a month or two to see how closed her joints are. I know there are age requirements anyways so we have several months more of prep- which we need! Still very much in training but she is doing really well and loving every moment.

I'll link to my thread and let that die, and start posting here instead if that's ok. Started the thread when we had only been in 7 weeks, she has come so far!
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-sports-show-forum/87242-learning-agility.html


----------



## baredul

May I ask? What kind of pricing dog training runs for agility? I have a very smart pup with my rudimentary training he has 17 tricks down and begs to learn more. However he is a big dog so what can I do with Rufus? He will go about 130-150 when he's finished growing...


----------



## MegaMuttMom

My biggest news is that Cherokee hasn't missed a weave entry in months! I can send him in from any direction and he knows exactly what to do. Occasionally he pops out before the last weave on a 12 weave stretch but, that's usually because I have done something to pull him out early  

I have a question, what word do you use to cue the 2 on 2 off? His perfect running contact at the end of the A-frame has turned into a jump off if I am not right at the near the base (like when I have to run around the tunnel). I wish we had taught 2 on 2 off to start but, it is what it is..........Anyway, we are working on targeting right now to help him out.

And, last week, the sequence started with a straight line tire, double jump, triple jump, table. I just LOVED it when Cherokee took off and the other students gasped in awe at his beautiful jumping. He really is a fine tuned athlete and if you let him go full guns, he is a sight to behold!


----------



## Shaina

<3 Cherokee  He and Kim would be great together in so many ways lol

Anyway we are still adrift in mid-move land so no class per se and no building/equip access except for the things I've hodge-podged together over time. Have a few trials planned over the next ouple months, including Miral- debut (just 1 day JWW Nov B) to see where our training is when put in a ring situation. Though since Mira's never been in an agility class this is maybe not relevant to the thread :s


----------



## Sibe

Baredul, big dogs can do alright! We have a big golden retriever/poodle named Duffy. His personality is such that he's not very focused because he wants to go say hi to everyone all the time, but he can physically do the obstacles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ogfqw8bors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIQAs00Y6YQ (he gets it by the end)

Price varies a lot. Where I am, classes started at $120 for the first 6 weeks, $110 for the next six, $100 for the next six, then after that you pay $60/month+optional $30/month to come in any time.

Denali today 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O34rFhFEno (handler error on the jumps lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AvBZsVK304 (LOVE the tunnels in this one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeJKQ3Lmgok (weaves at the end!!
Weave poles! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pKYOr_yb8k

Um yeah, I'm REALLY excited that she weaves!


----------



## LazyGRanch713

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I'm reviving (or restarting) the old thread "agility classes" because I miss it. For those that missed that thread, it was about progress/brags/problems in members' agility classes.
> 
> I'll start:
> 
> The wet/cold season has meant a hiatus from disc training, so we've been concentrating on agility for the last few months. Classes couldn't be better: the instructor is fabulous - I love how organized and resourceful she is, and how I never know what challenge I'll face on any given week until I get there. Agility class is like the highlight of my week.
> 
> Come to think of it, agility class is the highlight of Kit's week, too. Sometime I'll have to record and post here her screams of joy (no better way to describe it) as we pull into the training facility.
> 
> I love, love, love the drive that Kit has on course. She eats ground like a greyhound. I'm loving this stage of her training, because as she becomes slightly more independent and is starting to read me better, I'm starting to be able to think about my next move instead of worrying about her. She's got a nice balance of equipment focus vs. handler focus. Her weaves are the envy of many, and her only Q so far is in a NADAC weavers course.
> 
> Our challenges lately are start-line stays (complete with lots of backtalk from her), distance work, directionals, and getting her up to her regular jump height (20"). A few weeks ago we went thru a stage (around 3 weeks) of naughtiness where she basically just wanted to make up her own courses and run around out of control. That seems to have passed, though.
> 
> Our second, third, and fourth trials (all NADAC) are coming up, starting about 3 weeks from now. I'm excited to finally get to run Kit in some standard novice NADAC courses, rather than in games trials where all levels run the same course (so courses are beyond us both).


Kit sounds pretty much like Tag. The golden moment was deciding to trust my dog and just GO and know he'd follow (and he did). His biggest problem at the moment is anticipating (anticipating a release from the startline, anticipating a release from contacts, from the table, etc). A few times in the past few weeks he's ran PAST the weave poles...cueing him to weave the second he commits to the obstacle in front of him has solved that for the time being. I'm still loving it, and hope things are a little better for me this summer so we can enjoy it even more. This dogs biddability rocks. (Slightly OT, but Tag just joined a competition obedience class an hour away on Tuesday nights. We've only been to one class but I'm having a ball with that as well because it's very PR based with very small classes).



MegaMuttMom said:


> My biggest news is that Cherokee hasn't missed a weave entry in months! I can send him in from any direction and he knows exactly what to do. Occasionally he pops out before the last weave on a 12 weave stretch but, that's usually because I have done something to pull him out early
> 
> I* have a question, what word do you use to cue the 2 on 2 off?* His perfect running contact at the end of the A-frame has turned into a jump off if I am not right at the near the base (like when I have to run around the tunnel). I wish we had taught 2 on 2 off to start but, it is what it is..........Anyway, we are working on targeting right now to help him out.
> 
> And, last week, the sequence started with a straight line tire, double jump, triple jump, table. I just LOVED it when Cherokee took off and the other students gasped in awe at his beautiful jumping. He really is a fine tuned athlete and if you let him go full guns, he is a sight to behold!


I just use "feet". Several people in my class use "bottom" or "target". "Feet" just falls out of my mouth easier as a one syllable word, rather than two.


----------



## And

I'm glad this thread got started up again. It's nice to hear about how everyone's training is going!

As for Belle and I, our trainer finally moved locations! She and one of my good friends went in to business and now they have a much larger facility. They have a turfed area that is huge! We are taking a Competition Handling Class right now. Belle has been doing very well! I think we finally have been making positive progress with our table issue. A year ago she wouldn't down on a table in competition and now she does it 8 or 9 times out of 10! We still are working on making our table performance 100% but I am so happy with her success. Our trainer talked about starting a Running Contact class and I hope she starts one soon. Contacts seem to be our issue now! Lol

Also, I have to brag about a few things! First off, I got an e-mail saying Belle got her first UKI title! Lol. We ran two days at a trial and Belle earned her 'Speed Stakes Beginner (SSB)' title. We only run UKI to support our trainer when she holds the trials, but I really like the venue!

Another brag is last weekend we ran a TDAA trial, and Belle got her Teacup Master Agility Games 3 (TMAG3) Title! We Q'd 7 out of 10 runs which is really good for us. Belle's speed often times makes it difficult to control her on the small courses. Now after this weekend Belle only needs 4 more Q's til our Championship title in TDAA! If all goes well we can do this in 1 or 2 trials! After we 'finish' TDAA I think we may stray away from the venue and sign up for USDAA! 

Here is a picture of Belle and her ribbons from the weekend.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Looks like the thread has been successfully revived! Woot!

Sibe, one thing that helped me prepare for trials is to actually attend a few before your dog is entered. They'll put you to work in the ring, but the jobs are easy and you'll learn a ton (plus get a front-row seat). You'll also meet a lot of folks. If you're lucky, you might be able to find some room to crate your dog to get them used to the trial environment. I'm lucky to have a dog that doesn't care much about her surroundings, but a lot of dogs get nervous in trial environments.

Baredul, I've seen dogs as large as danes compete in agility. It is possible, but IMO, making a very tall dog go thru a small tunnel is a bit cruel. Prices at my training facility are $90 for six classes. I wouldn't pay this price for just any instructor, but our current one is absolutely worth it. The facility is also open for practice (when there aren't classes going on) for $5/visit per handler (no dog limit). It's a converted hay barn with a dirt/sawdust floor and a ton of equipment.

MMM, I wish I had used "spot" as my 2o2o command. As it stands right now, I'm using "toto" (two on, two off), which sounds an awful lot like "tunnel". So far there hasn't been any confusion, but I see that day coming.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Yay! I love this thread! Good idea to revive it, GLM 

We're in a bit of a transitional period right now... While I LOVE our trainer and like most of her methods, I do think that her classes are taught too much equipment too soon (i.e. not enough focus on handling/obedience). It's more like "fun agility," but that doesn't exactly work out well when I want to compete. So we have an "evaluation" at one of the best training facilities in the area to see if we can get in to classes there. I think that we will be switching gears to obedience in order to perfect my handling and our teamwork. 

That being said, I most likely won't be doing much with equipment for a while, except for continuing weave training and maybe working on some jump work/directionals, and all of that will be on our own. 

One of the trainers we've worked with (she's done some private lessons with me and Kimma) said that we should work for our CD, so I think that maybe we should pursue that for a while and hopefully it will improve our teamwork. 

I will be attending my first trial involving bringing Kimma along to get used to the environment in a couple of weeks! I will be going with the owner/handler of the 2nd most-winning agility Finnish Spitz in the country (this dog is 10 years old, and just retired)! So I will be in good hands, LOL. And hopefully, I will be in her class at this new place eventually! It would be awesome to have two of such a rare breed in one agility class, and competing at the same time (she has a young bitch that is 18 months, and Kimma is 15, so they should make their debuts at a similar time!). 

Wow. Long post for no real agility stuff, LOL.

ETA - We use "feet" for our 2o2os. I like it and it's easy for me to remember, hahah


----------



## baredul

Danali is gorgeous and I am very interested in maybe doing something like this with Rufus. This pup is amazing in his own intelligence and I think he can go a long way as long as I don't fall down on my job as being a forever mom.


----------



## LazyGRanch713

And said:


> I'm glad this thread got started up again. It's nice to hear about how everyone's training is going!
> 
> As for Belle and I, our trainer finally moved locations! She and one of my good friends went in to business and now they have a much larger facility. They have a turfed area that is huge! We are taking a Competition Handling Class right now. Belle has been doing very well! I think we finally have been making positive progress with our table issue. A year ago she wouldn't down on a table in competition and now she does it 8 or 9 times out of 10! We still are working on making our table performance 100% but I am so happy with her success. Our trainer talked about starting a Running Contact class and I hope she starts one soon. Contacts seem to be our issue now! Lol
> 
> Also, I have to brag about a few things! First off, I got an e-mail saying Belle got her first UKI title! Lol. We ran two days at a trial and Belle earned her 'Speed Stakes Beginner (SSB)' title. We only run UKI to support our trainer when she holds the trials, but I really like the venue!
> 
> Another brag is last weekend we ran a TDAA trial, and Belle got her Teacup Master Agility Games 3 (TMAG3) Title! We Q'd 7 out of 10 runs which is really good for us. Belle's speed often times makes it difficult to control her on the small courses. Now after this weekend Belle only needs 4 more Q's til our Championship title in TDAA! If all goes well we can do this in 1 or 2 trials! After we 'finish' TDAA I think we may stray away from the venue and sign up for USDAA!
> 
> Here is a picture of Belle and her ribbons from the weekend.


Great job!! Belle looks very modest  I looked into TDAA, but there are very little trials in my area so I doubt it would be worth it. CWags nixed their agility program, so we're probably going to start with CPE...


----------



## And

LazyGRanch713 said:


> Great job!! Belle looks very modest  I looked into TDAA, but there are very little trials in my area so I doubt it would be worth it. CWags nixed their agility program, so we're probably going to start with CPE...


I like TDAA because it is very laid back, but I do better with handling larger courses so I am glad we are almost done. We do CPE too and I really like it too! One things about CPE that I really like is that you can have minor faults in the lower Levels. So you can still progress in moving up Levels even with a small mess up. I am lucky to live right by the Wisconsin/Illinois border so there are always trials going on. When do you plan on starting to trial in CPE?!


----------



## LazyGRanch713

And said:


> I like TDAA because it is very laid back, but I do better with handling larger courses so I am glad we are almost done. We do CPE too and I really like it too! One things about CPE that I really like is that you can have minor faults in the lower Levels. So you can still progress in moving up Levels even with a small mess up. I am lucky to live right by the Wisconsin/Illinois border so there are always trials going on.* When do you plan on starting to trial in CPE*?!


Soon, bascially to get my agility friends off my back xD (j/k). I'd like to start sometime this summer if possible.


----------



## Shaina

We're in a big trialing valley of death right now due to lack of availability and getting closed out of a breed trial. One day of trialing in April, none in March...ouch!

That said I tossed Mira's first trial entry in the mail this morning. On April Fool's Day...hmmm that might be fitting . A single NovB JWW run at a trial in May to see how our training translates to a trial environment. Should be fun lolol


----------



## melaka

Buffy is just in an "agility for fun" class, but it's cool to read about all of you who are doing it for real. We just started our second 7-week session last week. The instructor does say that she tries to teach us the rules in case any of us want to go on to serious classes elsewhere.

Buffy is still having trouble with weaves (I plan to buy some poles to practice at home soon), but she especially loves the walk, jumps and A-frame.

I figured I would check it out locally before I decided if I want to get serious about it.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I can hardly wait for the snow to go so we can start training again. There are no trials in our area in March/April so our first trials won't be till May. Can never understand why they have trials in Jan/Feb when it is too cold, then don't have any in March and April. Instead they start in May and are all crammed into May through Sept. with one we go to in Nov.

Guess I shouldn't complain as it gives us time to get back into training. I know the dogs really miss it when we can't train. If I mention the word Agility, they start bouncing around.


----------



## agility collie mom

Have not been here forever. I am now assisting in a puppy agility foundations class and teaching an agility games class. I love doing both. Watching the puppies (and humanes) discovering the fun of agility is so rewarding. In the games class we have done CPE games: colors, wildcard, & snookers so far. I have also incorporated TDAA games we have done: copy cat and dare to double. Will be doing "Pittsburgh" bowling. I plan courses so that dogs of all heights and abilities can come and have fun. As for competing Rio and I will be starting again in May in CPE. I may take Savannah to a few this year but that depends on time and money. Rio and my distance work is much improved. I just need to learn to trust him more. Our club is having a TDAA trial April 30-May 1. I am the awards chairperson. So glad to see better weather coming our way and that everyone here is doing great and having fun!!


----------



## LexiPup

Hi, I'm new to the forum, but I want to jump in and get to know people! I've got a 10-month-old Aussie that I cannot wait to do serious agility with, even though we've got a long way to go! The trainer in my town (I live in a very small town in the middle of nowhere with only one trainer) insists that we can't do anything at all until she's a year old, which is incredibly frustrating because I know she can do ground work and everything just as long as she isn't jumping much or high. But I've been using Pamela Marxsen's videos on youtube to start foundation training and my pup loves it! She also got to try out some contact obstacles at a dog park and she did amazing. I hope we'll be able to start classes next fall and go to a trial next year.

Here's some links if you'd like to see her. The first one is Lexi doing contacts and the second is some disc/agility work we've been doing lately.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Nice videos, Lexipup! Welcome to the forum. 

There's a lot you can do with a 10 month old dog to start agility training. Certainly you can work on targeting (I use a bathroom tile), which will help later when you get to contact performance work. You can also do plenty of flatwork and obedience drills (no equipment). For example, the heel work looks great in your second video - what happens if you take the leash off? I also liked the "stay". Proof it by pairing it with a piece of equipment and teasing the dog to make her break. A ball or other toy can also help with this. At this age, tunnels and hoops are great obstacles, but I'd worry more about fundamentals right now and leave the equipment for later.

I'm the resident disc dogger 'round these parts, so lemme know if you have questions. Here's a video of my dog Kit at a discdog club demo recently:


----------



## LexiPup

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Nice videos, Lexipup! Welcome to the forum.
> 
> There's a lot you can do with a 10 month old dog to start agility training. Certainly you can work on targeting (I use a bathroom tile), which will help later when you get to contact performance work. You can also do plenty of flatwork and obedience drills (no equipment). For example, the heel work looks great in your second video - what happens if you take the leash off? I also liked the "stay". Proof it by pairing it with a piece of equipment and teasing the dog to make her break. A ball or other toy can also help with this. At this age, tunnels and hoops are great obstacles, but I'd worry more about fundamentals right now and leave the equipment for later.
> 
> I'm the resident disc dogger 'round these parts, so lemme know if you have questions. Here's a video of my dog Kit at a discdog club demo recently:


Thank you for your comments! I appreciate any help I can get.

If I take the leash off, sometimes she pays attention and sometimes she doesn't. She hates to heel...a lot--so I try to do really short sessions (like 3 minutes a couple times a day...more than that and she starts ignoring me). Help on heelwork would be fantastic! Also help on targeting. I tried clicker training for the first three or four months of her life and she really doesn't seem to "get it," for such a smart dog. Any suggestions on how to train targeting without the clicker? (And yes, I really, really tried the clicker. I'm aware of how awesome it is and how it encourages the dog to think for herself. But she learns a lot faster without it).

Her stay rocks--I can jump around with a squeaky ball and run and yell and she stays put. I've put a lot of work into her stay--I just didn't include it in that particular video.

As for the obstacles--we were just at the dog park for the day (I live two hours from it) and she ran over and did them first. I just couldn't resist (even though I know that one day will probably ruin her forever). But hey, we had a good time.


----------



## Laurelin

Ugh we don't start back up for yet another week! I'm literally dying, haven't had a class since december.


----------



## Indigo

At least you guys have a dog, I'm still waiting for mine.  I really want to get back into dog sports.


----------



## LazyGRanch713

Last night wasn't a eureka class, but it wasn't horrible either. Tag befriended an older kid (around 12-13?) and figured out he really, really likes kids  He was SUPER happy to be there, and very talkative. Not barky, just lots of yawn-squeaks and making his excited little growly-noise as he sprung straight up in the air. We worked a few serpentines intregrated into a course design, and some back-crosses (getting better). Tag had a stupid moment at one point, we did 2 jumps followed by a 180 degree turn into the weaves. Tag decided he'd rather go visit than weave, and rudely ran up to a GSP. The GSP gave an appropriate growl-snark and Tag backed off and decided now he'd rather weave than visit. Next time around, he totally ignored the dog. I gave him a really ugly approach the to A-frame and slammed on the brakes, and he did too before he ran off the side. (The A-frame was after a jump that was about 90 degrees away. I had to step out a step further and give him a better approach). The A-frame was also more steep than he was used to, and he did a running contact, backed up about 4 steps and did his 2o2o, staring at me intently.
Funny time. When we were getting done with our 2nd to last run, the trainer and the other students were horsing around. I leashed Tag up and the trainer started making a high pitched barky-yip noise (why, I don't know. I missed the convo!) Tag shot to the end of the leash, stood straight as an arrow on his hind legs and stared at her. He exploded with a screech, and then proceeded to leap 4 feet into the air every 1.2 seconds, as the class roared laughing. He continued leaping, growly-chatting at them all, and I was ready to lose my mind. We were laughing SO hard. It was a riot  After class Tag ran over to the trainer and kissed her like "do NOT swallow any more canaries, you scared me!!!!" It was a fun class. 
Apparently after the next class was over, one of the girls and the trainer let their dogs play off leash. They took a video and posted it on youtube and sent it to me. The dogs were chasing eachother, zoomies style, into the tunnel, out of the tunnel, back in the tunnel, out of the tunnel. About 10 times in a row. The trainer was laughing and started talking. When Tag heard her voice, he woke up out of a sound sleep and stared at the speakers, tail waving 1,000mph. He *LOVES* the trainer. It was pretty cute


----------



## MegaMuttMom

While on our off-leash walk in the woods today I think I came up with an idea to help Cherokee slow down on the A-frame so he won't miss the contact. In case you don't know, he had a perfect running contact but recently he has started getting CLOSE to jumping off and missing the contact (he doesn't miss the contact but it seems like he could if he doesn't slow down). In the woods, when he is running on the trail ahead of me and I want him to stop, I use the command WAIT. He usually takes a few steps to slow down to a stop and he waits for my next signal. I am thinking, if I say WAIT as he goes over the top of the A-frame, he may do the same as he does in the woods and slow himself down to a stop. Do you think it's crazy for me to think this may work? is it worth a try? I really don't want to train a 2 on 2 off at this point if I don't have to.


----------



## Shaina

MegaMuttMom said:


> While on our off-leash walk in the woods today I think I came up with an idea to help Cherokee slow down on the A-frame so he won't miss the contact. In case you don't know, he had a perfect running contact but recently he has started getting CLOSE to jumping off and missing the contact (he doesn't miss the contact but it seems like he could if he doesn't slow down). In the woods, when he is running on the trail ahead of me and I want him to stop, I use the command WAIT. He usually takes a few steps to slow down to a stop and he waits for my next signal. I am thinking, if I say WAIT as he goes over the top of the A-frame, he may do the same as he does in the woods and slow himself down to a stop. Do you think it's crazy for me to think this may work? is it worth a try? I really don't want to train a 2 on 2 off at this point if I don't have to.



You'd have to know your dog -- I've seen people do this sort of thing before and if they have a soft dog it usually adds confusion or a slight negative to the down contact and the dog either slows way in advance and creeps or starts intentionally leaping the contact zone to avoid the "stress area." I mean I have seen it work as a management technique for some people but more often than not it either causes problems or works temporarily then, with time, is ignored as noise.






Taking Kim & Web to a local drop-in agility class tonight


----------



## MissMutt

If you plan on competing, MMM, be very careful about relying on a word like wait for Cherokee to hit his contact.. their hearing starts to go at trials with all of the confusion/excitement on course 

People I know use a hoop at the bottom of the A-Frame or a PVC box around the contact area to maintain performance of a running contact.

Class doesn't start until the 19th for me. Ugh!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Last night's class was fun. We learned the rules for NADAC hoopers and ran it a couple of times (each time doing different tests). We get to do this in trial in about ~3 weeks! Kit has a giant "bubble" around her, and if I step into that space, she responds, often going AROUND a hoop instead of thru it. I'm learning to give her some space.


----------



## And

@MegaMuttMom - how did you teach running contacts?? I am trying to teach Belle running contacts at home until my trainer has a running contact class..

So far I have been using Silvia Trkman's running contact method. We have only been doing it for a few days and so far I have seen some small improvements. I also have looked into the 'Hit it!' board.. They are a little expensive, but for the amount I have spent on trials where we have missed contacts I am not too concerned with the price lol. Anyone have any experience with this? And as MissMutt mentioned I may look into the PVC box/ Rachel Sander method with the running A-frame after we get down somewhat of a running dogwalk... I have all the ideas now I just need to find something that works. 

For class this week we worked on some double-box/handling exercises and we focused a lot on rear crosses. I was surprised how well Belle did seeing as I rarely attempt rear crosses! Next week I think I may sign up for a 2x2 weave class.. I really want to reteach Belle's weaves just so we get better entrances, drive, and no popping out at the 10th pole anymore! (even though Belle's weaves are already pretty good!)

So looks like a little less trialing and a little more training.. I think it will really pay off in the end.


----------



## LynnI

Cool, happy to see this thread a live.

Been busy around here and other than once a week in a class I haven't been working much with Who in agility but what we have been doing I have been very happy with her. Been far to busy and training in the Recallers course that I am taking online with Susan Garrett. Btw, it is excellent 

I have Who entered in a fun match this weekend but the goal isn't to actually run her but just do some training in the ring (piece work/sequences) and get her use to more strange equipment in a different place.

My ol boy Petie has been recovered from a dislocated toe for a few months and he has been coming out of his skin wanting to play. He has also had his nose seriously out of joint because of all the training I have been doing with the youngster. So while he had to on the some down time I did a lot of shaping games with him.
We also went to a trial last month, one run for the ol man to keep him happy and he Q'd. We have another trial for him next weekend, needless to say the ol man is thrilled and still flying.


----------



## MegaMuttMom

And said:


> @MegaMuttMom - how did you teach running contacts?? I am trying to teach Belle running contacts at home until my trainer has a running contact class..


We used our finger as a target and slowed down the dog on the downside by following our target. The only time he now kind of comes close to jumping off is if I have to run away from the A-frame in order to go around a tunnel and it pulls him off towards me. He really watches and follows my body closely so it's really easy to pull him off track if I am not super aware of myself or do something to compensate for my body facing away from him. The upside to this is he is magnificent when I use false turns. They put on his breaks and redirect him fabulously.


----------



## Shaina

Nothing exciting, just me & the pups playing around in the sideyard...

Kimsta:





Webba:





Cheeeeseface:





Feedback/suggestions welcome


----------



## MegaMuttMom

Ummmmm, wow Shaina, that was amazing!


----------



## Shaina

thanks MMM









The poles are split because I wanted to work extra weave entrances...Kim had trouble last trial with her weaves entrances and NQ'd some otherwise beautiful runs as a result, which was a bit heartbreaking. Web debuts in Excellent shortly, though tbh he's been very consistent with his weaves anyway and not using the retry try allotted in Open for the most part.

Mira's first evah trial is in a month (just one entry, JWW) so I thought I should probably start actually sequencing with her lol...the all-white jumps were made a few days ago to give me more flexibility...this is her 2nd time doing sequences with more than say 4 obstacles. However there was a lot of earlier single jump work over the last few months...she's a big dog so I wanted to make sure she really understood jumping and turning over the jump...she seems to be figuring out how to translate all this knowledge to a sequence without wasting too much yardage but we'll see how that works out in the excitement of a trial situation hehe...should be exciting!


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Me & Harleigh are having so much fun. We've been doing "real" weaving (we still have guides) for the past few weeks and it is slowly becoming one of Harleigh's favorite obstacles. Her favorite is still the chute & tunnel though. 

We have a love/hate relationship with the A-frame it seems. She had been rock solid with her 2o2o for quite a few weeks, but then last class she didn't do so well. I think I might have been saying her contact word too late though - we'll see how she does this next week to see if it was a fluke or not. 

And last class she was not holding her stays very well at all  She is usually really good at that, it was just an overall "off" night for her (& me!) But we still had fun 

We're doing a lot of sequences and besides me messing up most of the time, we're doing pretty good... I guess. LOL Here are a few videos.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Shaina, is the lawn mower on purpose to desensitize the dogs to loud noises they might hear at trials?


----------



## Shaina

No, the front lawn just happened to be getting mowed at the time lol


----------



## Laurelin

Mira is so fast! Wow! 

Mia's first class was yesterday. Mostly orientation. We're starting back with foundations on her with a competitive trainer. I am stoked to get started, I can already tell a BIG difference between the quality of this trainer and my past trainers. She's trained lots of teams to their MACHs and nationals (even one national champion). I really feel this is where Mia and I need to be, even if we are starting back with the basics, it'll be a good review for Mia and really helpful to work through some issues we've had that past trainers haven't really been able to help with. The biggest problem is Mia has always been very drivey and very intense compared to the other dogs and I feel like this trainer will have a better idea how to specialize training for Mia individually. Plus she's trained toy breeds before (unlike the past trainers, Mia was always the smallest). Very professional so far and very informative. I really feel good about this switch. 

So yes, already am seeing the benefits of a trainer that really truly knows what they're doing. Definitely take the time to find a GOOD trainer. The crazy part is it's cheaper than the last place I was taking classes at.


----------



## LazyGRanch713

Funny moment at class last night. Tag has an auto-down on the table. I sent him to the table and started counting out 5 seconds. I moved out to be where I needed to be, and he decided to follow. I repeated "TABLE" and he backed up to the table, felt around the air with his back feet (eyes riveted on mine) and backed UP onto the table and did his down. It was really pretty comical 

I was really proud of his weaves. We had some hard sequences last night. I sent him into the weave poles and he missed his entry...he got about 1 step into the weaves, BACKED out of them, found his entry, and then weaved. I didn't say a word as he was doing this, and boy was I proud!!!


----------



## Shaina

Yeah I'm kind of wondering...if she's that fast in the yard...how fast will she be at trials???? Guess I'll find out next month lol

Laur I am very jealous of your new class -- it sounds awesome.

LazyG -- That's cute lol. Mira and Web will do that sort of thing...Kim not so much...she'll turn around.


In other news I am retraining Kim's weaves (one could say, I am actually laying a proper foundation finally) from the ground up...already seeing an improvement in desire/confidence so here's hoping. Taking it slowly.

As a result, however, she is not going to the drop-in class tonight. It's an Exc-level (must be in AKC Exc or equivalent to play) class that's doing an Int'l-style JWW course tonight...and I got the okay to bring Mira  So tonight will be Mira's first-ever agility class lol. I'm going to treat it like a trial just to see how she does and prep for next month...it's a new place so will be a good test. I'll try to get vid for entertainment value


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Laurelin, I can definitely attest to the value of a good trainer whose methods are similar to your own. Kit and I had hit a major plateau with our old agility instructor and getting into the new class sent us rocketing off it. Like Mia, Kit has intense drive which is not matched by other dogs in our class. Our old instructor wanted me to take that drive down a notch. Our current instructor is teaching me how to harness it. In my case, both instructors were highly qualified with gobs of titles on their own dogs (including nationals titles) and others that they've instructed. But only one of them is someone who can teach (me) effectively, and implements training methods that I can get on board with.


----------



## Shaina

I'm still looking for that sort of class...just training on my own in the meantime...and retraining poor Kim since her group class seriously lacked in fundamentals, though you'd never know it to look at her most of the time...

Anyway, I am pretty much the worse videographer ever. Mira had 3 runs tonight -- the first one I left the camera running and ummm filled the whole memory card (oops) so I deleted it to make room for the two later courses figuring 2 > 1 (wooo look at the math skills!). Got the second one on vid. The third one was the most crazy course, heavy on Euro influence so with some interesting jump wraps and jump pushes...and I thought I'd turned on the camera but apparently I missed so all I have is a 2 second video of my shoe when I went to turn OFF the camera and turned it on...grrrrrrrr. Her handling of that course was NICE too... 

Anyway, here's the one vid I did get, such as it is. Mira's first ever agility class...


----------



## And

Shaina said:


> In other news I am retraining Kim's weaves (one could say, I am actually laying a proper foundation finally) from the ground up...already seeing an improvement in desire/confidence so here's hoping. Taking it slowly.


I actually signed up for a 2x2 weave class that starts next week. I also am going back to laying a better foundation lol. I wish I would have known of my trainer NOW before I went to my old trainer... 

Also, Mira looked great for it being her first class!! I am sure she will do awesome at her first trial.

I'm going to a TDAA trial this weekend, there are 6 standards and we only need 4 for our Championship Title... I'm hoping to get atleast 2 this weekend. I would love 4, but with TDAA I never know what the weekend will be like. Everyone keep their fingers crossed, I just want to finish TDAA and move on! Lol


----------



## Finkie_Mom

We're taking a break from formal agility classes to practice on our own. We've been working TONS on weaves, but I'm scared to introduce all of them! We have 6 down, fast, with some pretty difficult entries, and with obstacles before and after. We've also proofed it a bunch at different locations. How do you know when you're ready to move on?

Anyway, I've also been trying to find a new trainer, but I'm coming up with nothing. It's so frustrating! A bunch of the places I've looked at are more "agility for fun," including, to a degree, the place we were at most recently. Now we're at a new place that seems ridiculously harsh, but has a reputation for producing some awesome agility dogs. So annoying! It may just be the class we are in that's harsh (different people teach the agility classes - this is a basic obedience class, needed to be passed before agility), but I'm not sure. 

For now, I will live vicariously through you all and your agility triumphs! I have no idea when we'll be able to take classes again...

But we are working on the Susan Garrett Recallers course, and it's awesome! Hopefully it will help us with focus - it already has helped with recall itself!


----------



## Shaina

And said:


> Also, Mira looked great for it being her first class!! I am sure she will do awesome at her first trial.
> 
> I'm going to a TDAA trial this weekend, there are 6 standards and we only need 4 for our Championship Title... I'm hoping to get atleast 2 this weekend. I would love 4, but with TDAA I never know what the weekend will be like. Everyone keep their fingers crossed, I just want to finish TDAA and move on! Lol


Thanks  I let her do a couple jumps and two weave sets today and she was like "OMG YAY! Back in my familiar place! On grippy grass!!!!" lol She was definitely holding back last night, and that she double-strided some weaves showed her lack of confidence in the footing there. but yeah for a first time in a new place, first time in a class, very different environment...I am very very happy *grin*

Good luck at TDAA!



Finkie_Mom said:


> We're taking a break from formal agility classes to practice on our own. We've been working TONS on weaves, but I'm scared to introduce all of them! We have 6 down, fast, with some pretty difficult entries, and with obstacles before and after. We've also proofed it a bunch at different locations. How do you know when you're ready to move on?


If she's that solid in various places I'd say you are more than ready to move on from six and probably could have a while ago.

Personally once Mira was doing six solidly I just added the whole second set of six, with a gap between the two sets. Rewarded in between and sent to the next set, then just rewarded at the end. Then moved the two sets together. She actually weaves 12 poles by herself on accident when she shot away and did a set I had up for Kim and Web when she'd only even done a set of six once or twice...and she did them perfectly...but we went back and kept laying the foundation to be sure she understood what she was doing. Just adding the example because it's amazing how well they generalize when it's been built up...but at the same time I wouldn't stay at six any longer than you need to. 

I can't remember if the above is the way Garrett does it or not...I just did what worked for my dog.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Shaina said:


> If she's that solid in various places I'd say you are more than ready to move on from six and probably could have a while ago.
> 
> Personally once Mira was doing six solidly I just added the whole second set of six, with a gap between the two sets. Rewarded in between and sent to the next set, then just rewarded at the end. Then moved the two sets together. She actually weaves 12 poles by herself on accident when she shot away and did a set I had up for Kim and Web when she'd only even done a set of six once or twice...and she did them perfectly...but we went back and kept laying the foundation to be sure she understood what she was doing. Just adding the example because it's amazing how well they generalize when it's been built up...but at the same time I wouldn't stay at six any longer than you need to.
> 
> I can't remember if the above is the way Garrett does it or not...I just did what worked for my dog.


I think that's what Garrett does, but don't quote me on that, LOL.

I'm just so paranoid. I've had to re-teach so much stuff with her, hahaha. Though today in our yard she was skipping out early for no apparent reason, so maybe we're not as solid as I thought. But only at one specific entry is she doing it... It's one of the "easier" entries, too. It's bizarre. So maybe I will train that entry a bit better over the next week, and add the other 6 after that is secure. 

Mira looks GREAT, BTW! It looks so effortless between the two of you. Fantastic to see!!!


----------



## Shaina

Well good luck 

It doesn't *feel* effortless lol...she was holding back a bit in the vid because of the new place and the mats being a bit slick...normally it "feels" like I'm working my butt off lol. She is fast but doesn't have enough experience to really find and hold a line lol. I'm using to Kim, with whom I learned everything so we run together more on instinct and muscle memory than anything else...I think "go there" and she understands...so I have to keep reminding myself that Mira needs to be supported a bit longer before she commits, needs a bit more clarity to really give her confidence...then I ended up doing a late FX because I was more worried about supporting her working ahead and around a jump standard...lol...she's a BLAST to run and I am so excited for when she really takes the bit in her teeth (so to speak) no matter where we are...and gains that confidence and understanding to move out...just keeping everything fun and letting her learn at her own pace because it will be so worth it


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Finkie_Mom said:


> We're taking a break from formal agility classes to practice on our own. We've been working TONS on weaves, but I'm scared to introduce all of them! We have 6 down, fast, with some pretty difficult entries, and with obstacles before and after. We've also proofed it a bunch at different locations. How do you know when you're ready to move on?


I was told that it can be harmful to stick with 6 for a very long time because the dog comes to expect 6 and will pop out at the 7th poll when you try to introduce a second set. I was encouraged to move to 12 pretty quickly after mastering 6, and I'm not sorry for doing it. Kit's weaves are great, particularly compared to her classmates'. Our classes start with 5mins of weave practice (dogs are at varying stages of weave training - some with guide wires, some channels, some successfully doing 6), but Kit and I work mostly on start line stays during that time because she's so much weaker there.


----------



## Laurelin

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Laurelin, I can definitely attest to the value of a good trainer whose methods are similar to your own. Kit and I had hit a major plateau with our old agility instructor and getting into the new class sent us rocketing off it. Like Mia, Kit has intense drive which is not matched by other dogs in our class. Our old instructor wanted me to take that drive down a notch. Our current instructor is teaching me how to harness it. In my case, both instructors were highly qualified with gobs of titles on their own dogs (including nationals titles) and others that they've instructed. But only one of them is someone who can teach (me) effectively, and implements training methods that I can get on board with.


I really like that this trainer focuses on the individual dog even though it's a class. She teaches contacts and obstacles differently depending on how fast and how big/small your dog is. she is the first instructor I've had that has successfully taught toy sized dogs to high level. (Her sheltie is less than an inch taller than Summer as is).


----------



## Shaina

Laurelin said:


> she is the first instructor I've had that has successfully taught toy sized dogs to high level. (Her sheltie is less than an inch taller than Summer as is).


Funny...the vast majority of instructors here are small dog people (16" at the tallest...usually 12 or even 8")...ironic lol


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I was told that it can be harmful to stick with 6 for a very long time because the dog comes to expect 6 and will pop out at the 7th poll when you try to introduce a second set. I was encouraged to move to 12 pretty quickly after mastering 6, and I'm not sorry for doing it. Kit's weaves are great, particularly compared to her classmates'. Our classes start with 5mins of weave practice (dogs are at varying stages of weave training - some with guide wires, some channels, some successfully doing 6), but Kit and I work mostly on start line stays during that time because she's so much weaker there.


Huh. OK I think we should maybe start with 12 sooner, rather than later. We've been on 6 for a looonnng time! I guess I was so paranoid about not teaching the entries correctly... We usually don't do weave training every day, though, if that makes a difference. Usually every other/every third day. 

Our weave training at our previous class was weird (as in pretty much non-existent LOL), so we learned them on our own. And now that we're not even in agility class anymore, I sort of just kept them static I guess (though she definitely still has TONS of drive, so not static in her performance at all). 

Now I just need another 6 from somewhere, LOL. Time to break out the PVC pipe cutter, I suppose!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Laurelin said:


> I really like that this trainer focuses on the individual dog even though it's a class.


It can be so frustrating to take a class from someone who won't recognize individual differences between dogs. Drive is certainly a big one that requires different approaches. In addition to this, I think a good instructor is flexible and creative with their methods. If something doesn't work, better to try something different than keep doing it the same way over and over again. 

I got some good agility-related news this morning: our trainer invited us to a more advanced class (upper intermediate) starting in about 6 weeks! I'm excited because I have good friends in that class and it's above us. I'd rather be pushed by being the least advanced team in a better class than be held back by being the most advanced team in a lower class. Plus our current instructor co-teaches it with her husband, so we get two instructors for the price of one. And it's at night, so I don't have to leave work early anymore! Woot!


----------



## Shaina

*does a happy dance for GottaLuvMutts*


----------



## Kyllobernese

The biggest problem in our area is that the only Agility Instructor available trains all the dogs the same. Our little dogs do not do well if you keep repeating things over and over. I know I could learn a lot more about handling with her but I am afraid it will sour Remmy. Haven't quite figured out what to do yet.

Right now I am waiting for my brother-in-law to take our weave poles apart and reweld them at the 24 inches apart as right now they are at 22". I am going to build an A-frame as that is one obstacle we do not have, and a proper collapsible chute. Can hardly wait for all this snow to leave! Snow on the ground this morning which melted off where there was bare ground but still have lots of the old snow to melt yet.


----------



## Shaina

K I'll stop dumping vids since _some_ people here need to post some too (GLM, Laurelin, etc...... ) but just for the sake of comparison to her first class vid, here's Mira back at home. Playing around with rear crosses vs. decel which are tough for the Newbie since they require a lot both physically and mentally. 

btw sorry the vids are always so choppy...the raw footage is usually about 10-15 minutes long (though all or all the interesting agility is presented in the cut version) since we tend to do 2-3 little sequences then break for some relaxation work so Da Baby can continue using her brain instead of frothing at the mouth...I like her enthusiasm but she can get kind kamikaze...little breaks let me channel that enthusiasm while still setting her up for success, and keeping her in a mind frame to learn from mistakes without being discouraged.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

She looks great, Shaina! Very impressive - how long have you been at this with her?

Sorry, no videos yet. This morning we had a practice session for next weekend's NADAC games trial, but I didn't manage to get any video. I did get some good pointers from a friend on our start line stay issues and A-frame issues, though. We've got 10 runs at next weekend's trial, so hopefully I'll be able to post some video then.


----------



## Shaina

I hope so 

Mira jumped her very first jump in December, just single jump. She did one-jump-only til about early March I think, in the loft in the house. Since early March we have practiced for about 10-20 minutes of agility per week, weather permitting, with an exception when I visited home twice and that drop in class last week. 

She started 2-pole weave entries late last summer, then took a break instead of adding more poles, returning to the weaves in the late fall. Weave work is included in that 10-20 minute deal above.


----------



## Laurelin

Shaina said:


> Funny...the vast majority of instructors here are small dog people (16" at the tallest...usually 12 or even 8")...ironic lol


My last instructor literally had giant dogs and most the students had BCs, Aussies, ACDs, very large mixes, etc. Almost every dog in class was very slow too, save one corgi. Then there was Mia who was the total opposite of them.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

We had agility class on Monday and it was a GREAT class! Some of you may recall that we had been having some problems with Harleigh doing the 2o2o on the a-frame, so I thought I'd post a video of her progress on it. I'm so proud, lol 





As far as small/big dog, there is a bit of everything. In my class Harleigh is the biggest one... the other dogs are a Cocker Spaniel, Terrier mix and Sheltie. Oh and my instructor has Keeshonds. But, in the advanced class that goes on the same night we have our class there is quite a few bigger dogs.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Kit took a dogwalk from a very odd angle (pretty much 90 degrees) in class tonight and ended up falling off it and landing on a tunnel below it. She was fine (thank doG!), but didn't want to go back on the dogwalk right away. We worked thru it and after a couple more tries and some good treats, I convinced her it was safe again. Hopefully we won't have problems with the dogwalk at the trial this weekend!


----------



## Laurelin

We had our second agility class tonight and actually did some stuff (mostly just contact behavior and obedience). Mia's already done that so was pretty good although her stays were AWFUL all night. She kept popping up every two seconds. She also barked in her crate a bit but eventually settled down which is a plus. One dog started flipping out in his crate and I think that caused Mia to bark. She was also a bit nervous at first and a bit flighty around this one GSD that kept barking but she calmed down. She's never been good in a crate so progress is good...

She wasn't particularly 'on' tonight, but for having months off and a new place with lots of distractions, she did good. My new trainer seemed to be pretty smitten with her. It's kind of funny to me, Mia was being WILD. From the get-go Mia was 'okay are we ready are we ready'? Her focus was superb and intense. Her eyes just didn't leave me at all. She was playing ball hardcore in the middle of all that distraction with gusto. Mia was so enthusiastic and bouncing around and smacking the ground with her feet and screeching in excitement and the trainer loved it. Usually that just annoys people. :lol-sign:

The instructor just kept coming back and telling me 'I just love your dog'. Then she finally said, "I want to steal your dog'. I was actually just saying the other day that even though people on-line have threatened to steal Mia, no one in real life ever has. So there was a first! She was very complimentary of Mia's enthusiasm and intensity. She also liked what work I'd done with Mia before although she did point out a few handling mistakes I was making that I didn't even realize I was doing. 

Now I've just got to harness that enthusiasm that Mia has and make it something productive.


----------



## And

@Nikki - You guys are doing great! Your 2o2o looks good!!
@GottaLuvMutts - Sorry to hear about Kit, but I am glad to hear that she went back on it! Good luck at your trial this weekend!!

I am starting a 6 week 2x2 weave class tonight. I'm hoping Belle does well! She has nice weaves already, but I am just looking to fix them a little. 

Our TDAA performance last weekend was a mess! Lol :redface: We Q'd in a game but no Standards. I think we would have Q'd in almost all of them but she missed EVERY single dogwalk contact.:doh: 
So we are finally just taking a group private lesson with 2 of my friends and we are working on contacts. I am HOPING we can get some sort of contact performance before CPE Nationals in June... :help:


----------



## Shaina

Good luck at your trial this weekend, GLM. Hopefully if you're relaxed and with being in a different place her one bad DW exp will get lost in all the good.

Laur -- Glad your class is going well 

And -- Have fun at Nat'ls in June! A lot of my friends will be there...kinda bummed we only did CPE for a short time as it would have been fun. Ah well. And good luck with the contact thing  Nice thing about little dogs, though...easier to just kinda manage their contacts if you need to! I'm taking Web out of competition after May to train a proper running contact with him. He had a beautiful 2o2o then I broke it (intentionally) and have just kinda been managing it for a bit. Looking forward to the challenge of training a real running 


Kim's weave retraining is going well...she's driving in and working out ahead of me. Did 12 for the first time today (well first time since retraining) and she's letting me just stand off to the side as she works them from beginning to end on her own! Definitely the best her weaves have ever been. Will try moving them around a bit, then go back to the drop-in class and try them there...*fingers crossed*


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Shaina said:


> Good luck at your trial this weekend, GLM. Hopefully if you're relaxed and with being in a different place her one bad DW exp will get lost in all the good.


For better or for worse, the trial is actually at the same facility where we have class and train. I thought that was a good thing (Kit's already comfortable with the place), but given the bad experience on Wed, I'm not so sure. The good news is that Kit is so trusting and confident that she tends to forget bad experiences quickly. I guess we'll see what happens.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Even though we're not "training" at the moment, we are going to our "first" trial tomorrow to spectate! I want to start getting her used to the environment well before she will ever have to compete. Wish us luck! I hope she doesn't act like a brat... Though I'm sure she will! That girl lives to embarrass me 

OH! And Kimma will be published in a local dog magazine next month, in an article about weave training!!! I'm so excited 

It's Urban Paws, for anyone in the Houston area. It's available online, so once it's out (comes out beginning/middle of next month) I will put up a link!


----------



## MegaMuttMom

Yesterday our class played Snooker! I have to tell you, for the first time learning to play, the rules are ridiculously complicated. We all felt like we were brain dead by the end. He put a table right in the middle as a decoy "magnet". It had no value but, oh my goodness, if you even spent a split second being confused as to where you were going next, it was impossible to keep the dogs from jumping on the table. Lots of laughing happened.......


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Results from today's trial:
We had six runs total and Q'ed in two. Not great, but not bad for a newbie. We started the day off with a bang: not only did we Q in our first run (tunnelers), but we came in 1st, one full second ahead of our INSTRUCTOR!!! If y'all are familiar with the OK GO white knuckles video, she was running the big golden who busts thru the tower of plastic pails. She was laughing about it afterwards and they trounced us later in the day, so no big deal, but I was proud. Anyway, here's the video of that run:








We also Q'ed in our second tunnelers run. It was "clean", but sort of a mess. We came in 4th there - really bad considering Kit is faster than pretty much all the 20+ dogs. But hey, a Q is a Q. 

Other good things: I was loving Kit's start line stays today. Gorgeous! She held every one of them perfectly. I was ready to yank her off if she didn't (we call it "no stay, no play") but I didn't have to. She also remained focused all day (no sniffing, no greeting ring crew or judge) and seemed into it, even if she was making mistakes. Contacts were also nice.

Other bad things: We need to spend more time working on discriminations. She missed 3 in a row in a TouchNGo run :-(
Also, this is less of a training thing and more of an environmental thing, but the garage door was open (you can sort of see it in the video) and it was such a lovely day that the light was just streaming in. Kit got every set of weaves that was facing away from the light, but blew every one facing into the light. I think tomorrow's weather is supposed to be worse, so maybe they'll close the garage door and I'll Q.


----------



## Shaina

Nice run! and congrats on the Qs and placements  Good luck today!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Great run, GLM!!! Kit is looking fantastic! I hope you had a successful day today, too


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Results from today's trial:

3 more Q's: two in weavers, plus a touchNgo! The weavers runs were both first place (again beating our instructor), but the touch and go was not. It was ugly and we shouldn't have Q'ed but we did anyway. The garage door was down today, and Kit nailed every set of weaves perfectly, confirming my suspicion that it was the light that caused us problems yesterday. We still had big problems with discriminations, so that's definitely something to work on. 

Perfect weavers run #1:





Perfect weavers run #2 (loved this course!):





A fugly touchNgo run (but we still Q'ed):





And a heartbreaker of a tunnelers run:





We ended up Q'ing in 5 runs out of 12 for the weekend, and winning second place overall in the large dogs (16'' and up). That's based on Q's, not times. We were, of course, beaten by our instructor, who had a perfect weekend (Q'ed in every run) with her novice dog. When was the last time I told you all how much I love our instructor?


----------



## Shaina

Congrats!!!!!!


----------



## DJEtzel

Hey guys, I hope you don't mind if I jump in later in the thread... 

Frag and I are starting agility classes in June (soonest we could find any!) and I was just looking for some general advice to get prepared/started for the class. We have access to all of the equipment other than the dog walk at the dog park to practice/work on, so I'd like to get started sooner rather than later. I took him out yesterday to do a little stuff with the clicker and we ran a few small sequences really well, but I don't want to do too much without knowing what I'm doing so that I don't mess him up. I don't know a ton about agility training or competing, so I'm going to be needing a lot of help. What sort of things should I work on first? Should I be using the ball/clicker, or will this engage him too much with ME? 

Also, for contact obstacles (is that even what they're called? Teeter, a-frame I'm talking, maybe dogwalk?) it's required that all four feet are on the yellow area going up AND down, correct? For those of you with long-bodied dogs, how do you train/shape that? While getts Frag used to the A-Frame, I realized even walking slowly down (or up) it's a long stretch from him being all the way on the yellow, and I believe these are all regulation sized/painted, so the yellow area should be the correct amount of space. 





GottaLuvMutts said:


> Results from today's trial:
> We had six runs total and Q'ed in two. Not great, but not bad for a newbie. We started the day off with a bang: not only did we Q in our first run (tunnelers), but we came in 1st, one full second ahead of our INSTRUCTOR!!! If y'all are familiar with the OK GO white knuckles video, she was running the big golden who busts thru the tower of plastic pails. She was laughing about it afterwards and they trounced us later in the day, so no big deal, but I was proud. Anyway, here's the video of that run:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We also Q'ed in our second tunnelers run. It was "clean", but sort of a mess. We came in 4th there - really bad considering Kit is faster than pretty much all the 20+ dogs. But hey, a Q is a Q.
> 
> Other good things: I was loving Kit's start line stays today. Gorgeous! She held every one of them perfectly. I was ready to yank her off if she didn't (we call it "no stay, no play") but I didn't have to. She also remained focused all day (no sniffing, no greeting ring crew or judge) and seemed into it, even if she was making mistakes. Contacts were also nice.
> 
> Other bad things: We need to spend more time working on discriminations. She missed 3 in a row in a TouchNGo run :-(
> Also, this is less of a training thing and more of an environmental thing, but the garage door was open (you can sort of see it in the video) and it was such a lovely day that the light was just streaming in. Kit got every set of weaves that was facing away from the light, but blew every one facing into the light. I think tomorrow's weather is supposed to be worse, so maybe they'll close the garage door and I'll Q.


I just wanted to comment on this video and tell you that you look really happy and it was very fun to watch you enjoying her so much out there.


----------



## Kyllobernese

They do not need all four feet on the contact, just one has to touch it but most people prefer the 2 on 2 off at the bottom. In other words the back feet stay on the contact and the front feet are on the ground. A good way to teach it is at the bottom of stairs. The thing with Agility is if you plan on competing, you can teach your dog lots of bad habits if you do not know what you are doing and it is harder to correct them than to do it right in the first place.

I love doing Agility and so do my dogs, it is a great fun sport.


----------



## Shaina

DJEtzel said:


> Also, for contact obstacles (is that even what they're called? Teeter, a-frame I'm talking, maybe dogwalk?)


Yup!



DJEtzel said:


> it's required that all four feet are on the yellow area going up AND down, correct?


All four feet aren't required...technically just need a touch (even a single paw is fine). Whether they are required to touch both up and down depends on the venue and the obstacle. So UKC agility requires a straight entry and touching both the up and down contacts. AKC doesn't judge the up contact on the dogwalk, so only the down contact counts. Not sure on most of the other venues...which do you plan to train for?


----------



## DJEtzel

Shaina said:


> All four feet aren't required...technically just need a touch (even a single paw is fine). Whether they are required to touch both up and down depends on the venue and the obstacle. So UKC agility requires a straight entry and touching both the up and down contacts. AKC doesn't judge the up contact on the dogwalk, so only the down contact counts. Not sure on most of the other venues...which do you plan to train for?


Probably AKC if anything. We're starting just as a hobby and to see if he has the skill/desire TO compete. If we did, it would probably be AKC because they're easier to find. 

Thanks for clearing that up though, I was under the impression all four had to be on and I was like, "How on earth will this dog fit on this space while he's running?" but that makes much more sense. 

@Kyllo- yes, I have heard it is very easy to mess up a dog on agility and hard to correct it, that's why after one session working with Frag I decided to come her to get some tips/idea before ruining him.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Start some target training. I like to use the 4" x 4" white tiles from home improvement stores. Get him really jazzed about hitting his target (just practice around the house) and then name it (spot, target, touch, whatever you want). When you're sure he's got it, put it at the end of a contact obstacle. He should do the obstacle and target the tile, which is perfect 2o2o contact performance. Months later, when he's got this down, just take a away the tile.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

I'm beginning to get a bit frustrated with Harleigh. She's been absolutely PERFECT with her 2o2o on the a-frame for quite a few classes/weeks, then all the sudden Monday (25th) at class she decided she didn't want to do the 2o2o for the a-frame... no matter what. She knows the 2o2o and does it perfectly with every other contact obstacle, but she goes through stages on the a-frame where she just doesn't want to do the 2o2o for some reason (I have no clue why though). 

I'm hoping it was just "one of those days" on the a-frame for her. We've moved up a level, so next week we'll be "sharing" instructors. For 1/2 the time we'll get our original instructor (who we've been with since beginning agility training) and then for the other 1/2 we'll be getting what my instructor likes to call "the mastermind", so I'm really hoping Harleigh doesn't decide to show her butt  haha If not, I don't know what I'm going to do with her... we've tried everything out there!

In other news. Here is a video from last class. This was one of our tougher (for us newbies!) sequences and Harleigh did amazing (even though I messed up, lol)! I was so proud of her...


----------



## DJEtzel

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Start some target training. I like to use the 4" x 4" white tiles from home improvement stores. Get him really jazzed about hitting his target (just practice around the house) and then name it (spot, target, touch, whatever you want). When you're sure he's got it, put it at the end of a contact obstacle. He should do the obstacle and target the tile, which is perfect 2o2o contact performance. Months later, when he's got this down, just take a away the tile.


Ah, good idea. So, it's just one tile being targetted by one paw, and the idea is that his other paw would follow suit and be 2o2o? Do you think it'd help if I paint it yellow to match the contact area on obstacles, or not?

I'm also completely over-analyzing this 2o2o business, and need to read up on it with diagrams. I'm picturing so many ways that this could be interpretted!


----------



## Sibe

Denali has her evaluation on Thursday, then we're back in the game! She can be skittish of strangers so hopefully that won't prevent her from joining. She won't bite or anything but if a stranger walks up to her she backs away and doesn't want them to touch her. I'm excited to start back up after about 6 weeks off. I built poles so we've been working those, but nothing else. I'm ready to start stepping it up and getting her ready for trials!

We've been jumping 16" but I know she can do more and get up to her 20-24" she'll need to do (excuse bad quality, it's a screenshot from a video)


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

DJEtzel said:


> Ah, good idea. So, it's just one tile being targetted by one paw, and the idea is that his other paw would follow suit and be 2o2o? Do you think it'd help if I paint it yellow to match the contact area on obstacles, or not?
> 
> I'm also completely over-analyzing this 2o2o business, and need to read up on it with diagrams. I'm picturing so many ways that this could be interpretted!


The tile would go on the ground, about 6 - 12 inches away from the contact obstacle for a big dog (maybe less for a small dog). The color of the tile doesn't matter, cause it doesn't go on the contact obstacle, anyway. The rule for competitions is that the dog has to get a foot somewhere (anywhere) in the contact zone. 2o2o is just one easy way to teach that. I wouldn't worry about whether the dog is targeting with one or both paws. Some people (I'm thinking MMM on here?) even have their dogs target with their nose instead of paw(s). The purpose is just to slow the dog down enough to get a foot somewhere in the contact zone. In the early stages of training, the dog should come to a dead stop at the end of the contact obstacle, and then wait for a release cue. When you see highly competitive/experienced folks run in trials, though, often the whole thing is more fluid so that the contact still happens, but without wasting a lot of time.


----------



## DJEtzel

GottaLuvMutts said:


> The tile would go on the ground, about 6 - 12 inches away from the contact obstacle for a big dog (maybe less for a small dog). The color of the tile doesn't matter, cause it doesn't go on the contact obstacle, anyway. The rule for competitions is that the dog has to get a foot somewhere (anywhere) in the contact zone. 2o2o is just one easy way to teach that. I wouldn't worry about whether the dog is targeting with one or both paws. Some people (I'm thinking MMM on here?) even have their dogs target with their nose instead of paw(s). The purpose is just to slow the dog down enough to get a foot somewhere in the contact zone. In the early stages of training, the dog should come to a dead stop at the end of the contact obstacle, and then wait for a release cue. When you see highly competitive/experienced folks run in trials, though, often the whole thing is more fluid so that the contact still happens, but without wasting a lot of time.


I understand a LOT better now, thank you.


----------



## Shaina

Mira started her first class last night  It was supoosed to be Kim's class but being a new club, I wasn't sure how the various class levels stacked up. Brought both girls simply because Cheeseface needed a change of scene after being confined all day...when I arrived and heard the lesson plan I just crated the Gold Dog with a NB Kong instead of the Black Dog and carried on. She did very well, and Kim still has that Exc drop-in class so she is covered too  Web goes to drop-in as well sometimes for exp but after May he's done w/ agility trialing for a while as he and I play around with true running contacts.

So there's the ShaiCrew update


----------



## Sibe

Denali passed her evaluation and we start classes back up next Thursday. She was pretty distracted at the eval since it was outside, as the course is, so I'm really really really hoping that it won't be too difficult for her to keep focus running outside on grass. Also, there is an AKC trial here in July! If she adjusts to running outside and we get her jump height up, I think we'll do it. We may have a problem in that in order to become a member of the club (and thus have access to the field outside of class for practice) you are supposed to complete one class. Which is 6 weeks of instruction. The trial is in 8 weeks. Would really love to have that extra practice time, I'm going to see what I can do. There are always more trials and I'd rather wait than set her up to fail. If all goes well, she'll catch on fast and we'll be ready anyways regardless of extra practice time!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Sibe - That is the one thing I love about Agility. Kiska is a little on the timid side, will not let anyone pat her or even get that close to her. She has improved so much since I started doing Agility with her as they do not have to let anyone interact with them. Once she is focused on the obstacles, she just ignores everyone and even let someone pat her the last trial I was at. She would never do well in Obedience where she had to do Stand for examination, or even the figure eight around two people but in Agility, I think she will be great.


----------



## Shaina

Well Kim's class that became Mira's class is now Kim's class for a couple weeks...and Mira won't be debuting in agility this month after all...

Surest way to bring an intact girl into season? Enter her in a trial.

Gr. Ah well...she's entered in two JWW runs in June so hopefully we can do that.


----------



## Hapybublebeagle

baredul said:


> May I ask? What kind of pricing dog training runs for agility? I have a very smart pup with my rudimentary training he has 17 tricks down and begs to learn more. However he is a big dog so what can I do with Rufus? He will go about 130-150 when he's finished growing...


Sound like a good candidate for weight pulling to me. My favorite website to learn about dog sports is http://www.dogplay.com/


----------



## Sibe

Denali had her first agility class out here today, after a whole 7 weeks or so off. She did pretty well! As expected she was a bit distracted waiting around as it was outside and everything was new, but during the runs she did great and was very focused on me. We bumped her up from 16" to 20" jump height and she did great. She knocked a few bars here and there but that's expected. Unfortunately she got her zoomies on... my goodness, it was super zoomies. She went over 2 jumps and then lost control. She ran around the entire field as fast as she could, taking random jumps, and being a total spaz! It lasted about 10 seconds or so, I waited for her to slow down before I called her back. She's never done that before, but she was quite excited. Bad puppy. Other than that she did great. Best of all, the instructor thinks she is plenty ready for the trials in July.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Been a while since I updated...

We've been working hard on discriminations since the last trial (March), because they really fell apart there. We're trialing Sunday, so I'll get to see if it worked. The trial is in a new location, so I'm curious to see how that goes. We had 3 runs tonight in the new location, and each included a little sniffing, but not too much, so I'm hopeful. 

Classes have been moved outdoors (yay - more distractions!), but we only have one more class in the current series and then we're changing to a more advanced class (woot, woot!) which meets later at night and so can't be outdoors. However, a friend invited me to come use her agility setup (outdoors) any time, so I'm super psyched about that prospect.


----------



## Laurelin

Been working foundations still, mostly 2o2o and weaves. Mia's really blowing me away lately.

Question... how long did you train before trialing? My trainer says she usually holds her students back for about 2 years. Seems long but she also really seems to know what she's doing.


----------



## Sibe

I wonder how long people train too. My first trainer had students in trials when they were ready. Sometimes as little as 3 months for very motivated students with dogs that learn quick. I've entered Denali for trials in July, and we started last October, so that'd be 10 months but we just took 2 months off when we moved.


----------



## Shaina

Training never ends 

I think it depends on your goals. I have Mira entered in a trial in June...not because she's ready per se but because she needs experience in new places and she's far enough along. However I am perfectly okay with an NQ and we will have a blast. Anyone who's going to get at all annoyed if their dog messes up shouldn't be running a dog before they are very very ready.

With Kim I had the opportunity to do fun matches and such at different places and get experience in new locations. Here I don't have that so have to do something else. And with some dogs, new places are a bigger deal than with others...Kim's OCD so everything different requires consideration. I suspect that once Mira gets a few places under her belt, new ones won't phase her a bit. But only one way to find out 

So basically, it's a personal judgement call. For big-time trainers, it is good to hold students back longer because those students are also advertising for your training facility. I have no one to embarrass but myself, and a puppy getting a bit wild is no reason for me to be embarrassed


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

I think how long it takes to go to trial depends on the dog. A very confident dog will have a fabulous time no matter what happens, so I don't see the harm in trialing before they're really "ready". A very shy or fearful dog may never get to trial, because no matter what, it's always going to be a bad experience for them. 

Kit's first trial was around a year after we started training, and I would say she wasn't really "ready". She was more than happy to run, and we both had fun, so I don't regret the decision to trial then, even though we only got 1 Q out of 6 runs. At that point, it wasn't really about Q's. Our Q rate has improved significantly since then, and continues to improve with each trial, but we're still very green, so it's less about the Q's and more about the experience. With "baby dogs", you just act like they did fabulously, even if they didn't.

I think the major benefit of trialing is to identify issues that need further training. These issues tend to rear their ugly head at trials, but many will stay hidden in class. If you can, get someone to tape your runs so that you can go back and identify what went wrong later.

ETA:

Go get your popcorn, cause it's movie time!!! Kit and I had 6 runs today at a NADAC fun raiser. She Q'ed in 4 of the 6 runs, and got her first ever Q's in regular and chances! We had major issues with jumps today (as you'll see in the chances video), but this is also Kit's first trial with jumps, so it's to be expected. I'm proud of her.

Here's the chances run:





...and the tunnelers run:


----------



## And

@GottaLuvMutts congrats on the Q's!! And based on the Chances video you posted I think the only issue Kit had was collecting her self. She was moving so fast that she just didn't slow down enough between jumps. She looked great in both videos, and as she gets older and gets more experience the jumping 'issue' should go away.

We had our first CPE trial since January. It is our last trial before CPE Nationals in two weekends. And I will just say it was a disaster! We had some nice weave entries that many dogs missed which was the highlight of the trial. I'm glad because it seems our 2x2 training has payed off. I need to run her on more equipment in the next 2 weeks just to try and not make a fool of ourselves at Nationals  This is our first big event, and I am sure it will be a lot of fun. We have one more week in 2x2 class and then I will probably sign us back up for our competition handling class. 

Hopefully everyone's training is going well.


----------



## Shaina

GLM I don't know how I missed your vids -- just now got to watch them! I love Kit's enthusiasm...and her start line stays are hilarious as she's just itching to go but hanging on to her stay for dear life. Nice runs! 

In the chances run, is there any particular reason you decided to rear cross on the flat between the first and second jump out of the tunnel? Just wondering as to the why...it looked like you had time to get on the inside of that turn while Kit was in the tunnel since she gave you nice distance as she committed to the tunnel. Just an idea though.




And -- sorry about your rough weekend  Good luck at Nationals!




Mira had her first post-heat class tonight (and second class ever), which was very fun. Brand new place so she was thinking hard. Her makeshift contact training seemed to translate very well, and she nailed the weaves both times. Only flaw is that her handler forgot that while the Baby Dog is excellent she is not yet Excellent...gotta support those cues more than with the Gold Dog!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

OK so we're not in classes for a little while, but we've been doing some training on our own. Here's a video from earlier today, incorporating some mini recall games. It is super hot out, so she's not super speedy. And of course, the camera my DH was using died halfway through, which is why there's a cut out, LOL. Excuse her missed weave entry part way through - she thought I threw a treat which is why shes sniffing looking for it LOL.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

And said:


> @GottaLuvMutts congrats on the Q's!! And based on the Chances video you posted I think the only issue Kit had was collecting her self. She was moving so fast that she just didn't slow down enough between jumps. She looked great in both videos, and as she gets older and gets more experience the jumping 'issue' should go away.


Yes, this is the consensus from pretty much everyone I've talked to. She loves to run fast, and jumps require her to slow down and collect herself, which is not exactly her forte. Another big part of the problem is that I'm a newbie handler and my cues aren't always timed properly to put her in the right position to get her jumps. And then of course I need to start really rewarding her for jumps (in practice) cause we haven't really done that. The good news is that when she actually does take a jump, it's pretty, so I probably won't have to work on jumping style as much.

Shaina, you're right, a front cross before the second hoop would have worked. I think I wasn't expecting the nice tunnel commitment that I got, so I walked it thinking that I might have to hang back.

We had another trial this weekend. Only got 2 Q's, thanks to our ongoing jump issue. BUT...Kit got all her weave polls, every discrimination, and every contact. People were laughing about her contact performance because she gets to the end, hits her spot, and then rocks forward, leaning WAY out in anticipation of my release. Makes me chuckle every time. Start line stays were only mediocre today, gonna have to go back to that. We got some great advice from a friend on how to work on the jump issue, though, so definitely worth participating. At this stage, trialing is less about Q'ing for us and more about identifying issues that need work, getting advice, and finding motivation to work on those issues. I'll try to post some videos when I get time, but a lot of them are heart-breakers cause she misses a clean run by one jump. 

Nice video, Finkie! Are you using 21" or 24" weave polls? The reason I ask is that Kimma is stepping with both front feet on the side of each poll. This method is of course fine, but she might be large enough to single-step her polls. From what I've heard, it can be more efficient.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Nice video, Finkie! Are you using 21" or 24" weave polls? The reason I ask is that Kimma is stepping with both front feet on the side of each poll. This method is of course fine, but she might be large enough to single-step her polls. From what I've heard, it can be more efficient.


Thank you 

Kimma is really the brains of the operation - I'm just trying not to mess her up 

We're using 24" poles. She usually does single-step, but she was definitely not at top speed that day. I didn't notice she wasn't single-stepping until I watched the video hahaha. Part of the reason, I think, is because it was like 90 degrees out there (even though it was still morning!), and we had gone for a hike a little bit before. We are hopefully going to try all 12 poles soon, and I think that might actually help with her speed. We have to borrow more poles from a friend, as that ones we are using are actually her 6 LOL.


----------



## Sibe

Denali has done this once before, but last night she did it again and it scared the bejeebus out of me. When she has a straight line for the A-frame, she sprints for it and leaps halfway up it, not a single toe touching the contact zone. I'm not worried about her hitting the contact so much as that she hits it REALLY HARD when she's coming at it that fast. Last night we had a straight line of tire, jump, and A-frame. I lead out to the jump and she was FLYING when she got to me. When she hit the A-frame I cringed it was so forceful and loud. She hit it so hard her front legs bent to where she almost scraped her chest on it. Any suggestions for getting her to take it more nicely when we have a straight line? She was also *really* hyped up last night which didn't help. It's obviously not good for her legs or body, I stopped her at the bottom to make sure she hadn't broken her legs it was so hard.

At slower speeds she does it quite well. For comparison to what I just described, in this vid from a few months ago she misses the entire contact zone as her back feet are planted right at the base of the obstacle, but she does it gracefully and doesn't slam into it. (she did cough a treat out at the top, ignore that lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSic8xASRiY&feature=player_profilepage#t=22s


----------



## Shaina

In agility news -- put it on my ongoing all-in-one-place thread but Kimmy finished her AX title and Mira had her first trial runs. It was really fun...I wasn't expecting or intending to Q with Mira but she did anyway -- was really fun either way. Despite the heat...it was nearly 100 degrees out there 

Anyway, back to playing around whereever we can, focusing in particular on clearly understood contact performance with Mira, weaves & confidence with Kim and Web. Good times!


----------



## Sibe

Spent about an hour at the field today working on rear crosses, taking the line presented (we have a ways to go on that!), sending her out to obstacles, and basically just obstacle focus. She tends to be too focused on me. Our first trial is this weekend, we're doing standard and jumpers runs on saturday, sunday, and monday.

It's best to jump with your tongue out


----------



## MegaMuttMom

Sibe said:


> Spent about an hour at the field today working on rear crosses, taking the line presented (we have a ways to go on that!), sending her out to obstacles, and basically just obstacle focus. She tends to be too focused on me. Our first trial is this weekend, we're doing standard and jumpers runs on saturday, sunday, and monday.
> 
> It's best to jump with your tongue out


Good luck this weekend!


----------



## Shaina

lol very cute picture Sibe

Good luck at the trial!


----------



## And

Well I got to run Belle at a fun match this weekend! This is my last time running her until December since I am leaving for Australia for 5 months to study abroad. There were about 50 dogs, and when I got there I found out my instructor/friend had gotten a spider bite on her foot so she asked if I could run her dogs.. So today I got to run 6 dogs on 5 different courses. I got to run Belle my little mutt, 2 Aussies, 2 Goldens, and a young border collie. 

Belle got 1st place out of all 50 dogs in jumpers! Considering she jumps 8" and was competing against some amazing border collies and aussies I was very impressed. She also got 3rd overall in the 24 weave pole challenge! She did 24 poles in 5.6 seconds, not bad for such a small dog! She also Q'd in Gamblers and Tunnelers and I think placed like 4th and 5th?? 

And for the other dogs I ran.. one of the Aussies who jumps 24" took 1st overall in Gamblers and 1st in the weave pole challenge. And the other 16" Aussie I ran took 1st in a tunnelers course. I think I placed in the top 5 with at least 3 dogs in all of the classes besides Standard (which I only ran Belle in). The two Goldens were looking for their mom on a few of the runs, but as the day went on they got used to running with me. I think one golden took 5th in tunnelers and 5th in the weave pole challenge. The border collie I ran had NEVER run a full course, but I got to run her on tunnelers. She was FAST and did very well! We ran for fun, but she would have ranked well against everyone!

So I had a really nice time at the fun match! I really enjoyed running my instructor's dogs, who are amazing!! It's going to be a long 5 months without agility, but I should hopefully have some free time in Australia to do some research on a new puppy!  I will linger on this forum to check and see how you guys do the rest of the summer! Good luck & have FUN!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

So we finally got back in to an agility class! And of course, we are moving in three weeks and will need to find another place to train... Anyone know of anywhere good near Philadelphia??? I have a few places on my list, but of course someone's personal experience is probably more useful than my calling randomly! (Though I will definitely sit in on some classes before I make a final decision)

Anyway, Kimma did great. We ended class with a simple sequence including a chute (which she is not fond of), 8 jumps, and dog walk, and she just did it! No issues, no trying to run away and sniff! 

So I guess she's over the chute fear? LOL. Though she got out of it and was like, "Hey, man, where's my treat???" So that slowed us down. But she was with me the whole time, we did front/rear crosses flawlessly (they were easy ones though haha), and she seems like she's getting back to her old self. A couple of times I had to call her away from the dog walk since she loves doing it so much, but she didn't actually ever get on it - she just would end up going that direction. And she did 6 weaves, but not in sequence. She was a bit weird about them since they were all made of PVC pipe, and the ones we have trained on previously are either metal with a flat base, or poles in the ground. So it was probably good she didn't do them in sequence 

I hope that her good focus/drive continues, though I would love for her drive to increase a bit. Hopefully that will come with her general anxiety level decreasing.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Finkie_Mom said:


> So we finally got back in to an agility class! And of course, we are moving in three weeks and will need to find another place to train... Anyone know of anywhere good near Philadelphia??? I have a few places on my list, but of course someone's personal experience is probably more useful than my calling randomly! (Though I will definitely sit in on some classes before I make a final decision)


My suggestion would be to check out a trial or two and ask around there. In my experience, people at trials are pretty helpful, especially if you can devote some time to volunteering as ring crew, etc. Around here, anyway, people are very opinionated as to which trainers they like and dislike, and no one is shy about letting that be known.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> My suggestion would be to check out a trial or two and ask around there. In my experience, people at trials are pretty helpful, especially if you can devote some time to volunteering as ring crew, etc. Around here, anyway, people are very opinionated as to which trainers they like and dislike, and no one is shy about letting that be known.


Ahhhh that's a fabulous idea!!! I just looked and there are a few trials in the area that I could try and get to. As a competitor, do you ever mind people asking you questions? Obviously not like right before your run LOL. I don't want to be rude!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Finkie_Mom said:


> Ahhhh that's a fabulous idea!!! I just looked and there are a few trials in the area that I could try and get to. As a competitor, do you ever mind people asking you questions? Obviously not like right before your run LOL. I don't want to be rude!


Attending trials, even long before Kit was trialing, has been one of the best things I could do, and has made us progress faster than we would have otherwise. First, there's tons to learn, and you can get a front row seat if you're willing to help. The jobs are pretty simple - like resetting knocked bars. You will meet lots of people, and they are generally very helpful and friendly. Be prepared for lots of people to say "What kind of dog do you have? What stage of training are you at? When are you going to trial?" As long as you don't bother people just before or just after a run, everyone loves to share their experiences. People have tons of free advice for newbies, and you can benefit from it. As a reward for working, lots of agility clubs give out workers coupons which can be used for various goodies like food, raffle tickets, and money off entries. One time I wont a big stack of outdated Clean Run magazines in the raffle, which was nice compensation for helping all day. Eventually, because I was attending trials and helping out so much, I was invited to join a more advanced class with a better instructor. I was also invited to social functions surrounding trials, and got to know judges and other folks in the agility community that way. Now I know all the regulars in our agility club (they make up a big part of Kit's fan club!), and I can volunteer to take on bigger organizational jobs at trials, which earns me free entries. 

If you can find some trials to attend, be sure to ask people to point out instructors for you. Watching their runs can really tell you a lot about what sort of instructor they'd be. It goes without saying that the best instructors are going to have a lot of experience and will have placed titles on their dogs (although they may still be running younger dogs in novice).


----------



## RaeganW

Marsh and I have a private lesson with a judge (Joan Simon) next Sunday. I am totally spazzing out. 

A friend told me about a NADAC trial at the start of August that has Tunnelers. I'm probably going to be really stupid and enter, Tunnelers for certain and maybe also Jumpers and Hoops. On one hand there is NO WAY Marsh will be ready to really compete by then. But, he's stable enough to enjoy a day at a trial, it's NADAC and goofy so it won't ruin him for more "serious" venues, we'll have fun, and I'll finally get a chance to scratch my trial itch. We've been playing around a little and he's very responsive. I can lead out for days and he takes any obstacle in his path with no problem (weaves are still in training and we haven't started contact work yet).

Skimming the NADAC rules, Marsh's normal jump height would be 16". I could run him in Skilled, and that puts him at 12". I could then run him For Exhibition Only that would knock him down to 8". Athletically, I do not think it is likely that jumping at 16" would impede him in anyway. Is it worth it to run him lower? I'm leaning towards 12".


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Pixie and I had our first agility class tonight, so I can finally join this thread

She did really well, she has a history of not being very focused in classed, but she focused really well and did well with all the read end awareness stuff and shaping and generally just interacting with the equipment. She even played with her tug toy, and got really into it. That really surprised me, because I had to shape her to play with it at home, and she has never played in class before, but she loved it.

So really happy with our first class She was actually supposed to be my obedience dog, and Obi my agility dog, but Obi can't do agility cuz of his knees, so I decided to swap them. And it turns out Pixie seems happier doing agility than she ever did with obedience, and Obi loves obedience, so it's all good


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

RaeganW said:


> A friend told me about a NADAC trial at the start of August that has Tunnelers. I'm probably going to be really stupid and enter, Tunnelers for certain and maybe also Jumpers and Hoops. On one hand there is NO WAY Marsh will be ready to really compete by then. But, he's stable enough to enjoy a day at a trial, it's NADAC and goofy so it won't ruin him for more "serious" venues, we'll have fun, and I'll finally get a chance to scratch my trial itch. We've been playing around a little and he's very responsive. I can lead out for days and he takes any obstacle in his path with no problem (weaves are still in training and we haven't started contact work yet).


Tunnelers runs are fun. If your dog has any speed whatsoever, you're in for a wild ride. I'd avoid hoopers for a newbie dog. First, the rules are kinda strange (it's not just a straightforward course - you make your own), so it's easy to get lost. Second, a lot of newbie dogs (like mine) dont' really view hoops as obstacles. Motivating them on a course made up of nothing but hoops can be difficult. 
NADAC is big in my area, and although I've heard people say that it's not really serious agility, judges do build challenges into it. It does lack some equipment (teeter, chute, table, ?), but has some of the more challenging elements (weaves, discriminations, threadles, off course obstacles, etc.).



RaeganW said:


> Skimming the NADAC rules, Marsh's normal jump height would be 16". I could run him in Skilled, and that puts him at 12". I could then run him For Exhibition Only that would knock him down to 8". Athletically, I do not think it is likely that jumping at 16" would impede him in anyway. Is it worth it to run him lower? I'm leaning towards 12".


Completely dependent on the dog. If the dog is jumping 16" in practice and you don't expect him to be affected by the trial environment, then I'd jump him his normal jump height. If you suspect that he'll knock bars or run around jumps at this height (for whatever reason), then go to 12". There will be fewer competitors in the 12" class.


----------



## MegaMuttMom

RaeganW said:


> Marsh and I have a private lesson with a judge (Joan Simon) next Sunday. I am totally spazzing out.
> 
> A friend told me about a NADAC trial at the start of August that has Tunnelers. I'm probably going to be really stupid and enter, Tunnelers for certain and maybe also Jumpers and Hoops. On one hand there is NO WAY Marsh will be ready to really compete by then. But, he's stable enough to enjoy a day at a trial, it's NADAC and goofy so it won't ruin him for more "serious" venues, we'll have fun, and I'll finally get a chance to scratch my trial itch. We've been playing around a little and he's very responsive. I can lead out for days and he takes any obstacle in his path with no problem (weaves are still in training and we haven't started contact work yet).
> 
> Skimming the NADAC rules, Marsh's normal jump height would be 16". I could run him in Skilled, and that puts him at 12". I could then run him For Exhibition Only that would knock him down to 8". Athletically, I do not think it is likely that jumping at 16" would impede him in anyway. Is it worth it to run him lower? I'm leaning towards 12".


Cherokee has more drive and focus when I run him at full height. It's almost like the lower bars let him have time to think for himself and, with him, that's never a good idea


----------



## DJEtzel

MegaMuttMom said:


> Cherokee has more drive and focus when I run him at full height. It's almost like the lower bars let him have time to think for himself and, with him, that's never a good idea


The same thing is true for Frag. During class bars are set at 8 inches and he just walks over them and is somewhat uncaring/focused. In our free time I raise them to at least 12 and he starts working a little harder and paying more attention.


----------



## RaeganW

Our private went GREAT! I love love love having a dog that is willing to connect with me and gives a damn if I am in the ring.

I learned some tips about leading out, which I can't articulate but make sense enough for me to put them in to practice. I got to feel how my motion changes the dog's path.

We played on contacts. Marsh doesn't have any contact behavior at all so I just listen to what she said, even though I'm going to do it slightly different "for real." It seems like she has a word for the obstacle, then a word for the contact behavior. She had me place him into 2o2o and have him hold it there on a stay, and if he broke early I was supposed to physically put him back on. Ehhh, it's not the way I prefer to do it, but it didn't break him so whatever. The biggest problem we had was him going too fast on the contacts and not knowing to stop at the end. So my benchmark for scheduling another private (since I LOVE working with her and the price is super reasonable!) is a solid 2o2o on A-Frame and Dogwalk. 

He went on the teeter as well, on leash, no problems except blowing the contact, because he doesn't know it. I was given permission to take him over the teeter on leash, he wasn't noticeably bothered by the sound or motion, but for my own sanity I'm going to enlist a helper a few times just in case.

She showed me a drill that involved the dog doing figure eight over a jump and around the uprights while you slowly walk up to the jump. It gets you into the dog's space and requires him to wrap tighter. I'm a little iffy on it, to be honest, but we'll see. She really wanted me to use it to teach "left" and "right," something I have specifically never taught my dogs because I have a lot of trouble with my left and right, and it's even worse under pressure. I've called heeling patterns in puppy class and gotten the turn wrong every time! I had been planning on teaching "here" and "out" to tell the dog to take the obstacle closer or farther from me. Like going over a jump to a C-shaped tunnel, call "here" for the dog to take the entrance to his right and "out" for the left (assuming handler is on the dog's right).

REALLY fun was what we ended with! I told her I was thinking about entering Tunnelers and she gave me permission and thought it was a good idea, even! Let me see if I can explain it. I might have to draw you guys a picture. There was a short tunnel set up in a C underneath the dogwalk. About fifteen feet past the right entrance (facing the tunnel) was a long tunnel, mostly straight and perpendicular to the dog's path coming out of the tunnel. About three feet past that was another tunnel going off at roughly a 45* angle.









The red lines are a jump and double jump. We didn't use them in this exercise, but they were there. Marsh *really* likes jumping. Have I mentioned I love this dog?

First pass was purple (enter on left) to yellow. This went better than it should have! I think we did a rear cross by accident. XD
Second pass was purple (enter on left) to blue. This one took us a couple of tries. Bless this dog, he is so willing to work through mistakes and come back for another go, even when it's my fault. What finally made the difference was pointing my feet the right way. I ended up having to side-step to keep my feet from pointing at the yellow, but by jove he got it! It was really something. I "know" that the dog follows your feet and shoulders as much as anything, but through this exercise I really got to *feel* it. 

I think we also did Yellow from the other end (the one going off screen) to blue, practicing calling him while he's still in the tunnel so he knows where I am when he comes out. 

I really can start naming obstacles, he's very smart and understands that well. 

I really, really liked training with her and I think we mesh really well as far as teaching/learning styles.

I have one question to put to the DF Agility Crew: Do you name the contact behavior separate from the obstacle name? Such as "A-frame!" to get on the A-frame in the first place, then "bottom!" to land in a 2o2o? Or is the contact behavior inherent in the "A-frame!" I suppose there's no real harm in either way, it just changes how I want to name things. Is the teeter different than the A-Frame and Dogwalk?

2o2o is going to be our new religion. I already have stairs picked out to practice on.


----------



## DJEtzel

I've only been working on Frag's 2o2o with the A Frame, as he doesn't try to fly off the teeter and hasn't been on a dog walk yet. 

I use "frame" for the obstacle and "easy" for his 2o2o, because it comes naturally and that's what I want, him to take it easy, slow into position, not fly off like he has a bottle rocket up his butt like he wants to. I would like to keep the name of the obstacles seperate from asking him to do stuff on them, because I think it's easier to teach and easier in his mind. "Frame" means he's heading to the big triangle thing & that's that. Once he's there I can worry about how I want him on it, kwim?

Obviously if that doesn't work for you don't do it, but it's working for us. XD


----------



## Shaina

RaeganW said:


> I have one question to put to the DF Agility Crew: Do you name the contact behavior separate from the obstacle name? Such as "A-frame!" to get on the A-frame in the first place, then "bottom!" to land in a 2o2o? Or is the contact behavior inherent in the "A-frame!" I suppose there's no real harm in either way, it just changes how I want to name things. Is the teeter different than the A-Frame and Dogwalk?


Well I teach the end behavior away from the real equipment so I name that first. End behavior, though, is just the obstacle cue. But I have that cue to fall back on if needed.


----------



## Sibe

I say "walk it" for A-frame and dogwalk, and "feet" to hit the contact. On the A-frame I say "feet" as she's going over the top, and for the dogwalk just as she's about to hit the joint for the downward slope. We learned the end behavior first. For the teeter, I say "Teeter" and she's been taught to stay on the end until it's down, so I don't have a word for that.


----------



## RaeganW

Shaina said:


> Well I teach the end behavior away from the real equipment so I name that first. End behavior, though, is just the obstacle cue. But I have that cue to fall back on if needed.


This is I think what I was planning. I will teach Marsh to put his back feet on a box, then we'll transfer that to stairs, then when he is backing into position (a tip I picked up from my first agility instructor that has really stuck with me) I'll name it. For the A-Frame and Dogwalk I was planning on using "walk it" and the teeter as "tip it!" because they make me think of the game bop it. To my way of thinking the contact behavior is a part of the obstacle. Like, the point of the A frame isn't just to run over it (and oh! you should see how pretty he looks floating over the crest of the a-frame! I stopped handling to watch him and got yelled at XD), it's to run over the top and land in 2o2o. 

I feel like this might just be showing off though, and it might be more practical to name the obstacle and the contact. Maybe this is just something I need to be patient on, and as he gets experience he won't need so much coaching. I have this aversion to having to babysit my dog that I think I might not be supporting him enough. This is what happens when you WATCH too much agility without DOING it!


----------



## Shaina

Yeah sorry my post was pretty incoherent now that I'm re-reading it. 

With Mira, I started by teaching the end behavior (jumping into 2o2o)
Then named that behavior
Then introduced to full height obstacles with no words, just playing on them (yay happy obstacles!)
Then introduced the end behavior on the contacts just using that 2o2o name (for me, "bottom")
Once she's offering the 2o2o behavior (happened fast), just started calling the obstacles by the names I use (WalkIt, Frame, Bang) and not saying the end contact behavior name because she's offering it anyway. If she fails I either wait her out or remind her with the "bottom" cue depending on how she fails but her success rate was high by then. 

We're still perfecting but this seemed to work well. Basically taking what I learned with Kim, Web, helping others, and various other sources remixing for this particular dog...a.k.a. typical training


----------



## Shaina

We started new classes tonight -- I am really excited about Kim's. Taught by two very experienced agility people, both are great but one has an exceptional eye and the other has vast experience running very touchy dogs so really picks up on the effect of movement on path. 

Mira at long last gets her very own class -- not sure how it's going to go yet since day 1 was just running two courses to give the instructors an idea of the skills levels...which range from possibly ready for Novice to MACH dogs...Mira somewhere in the middle...good skills set, plenty of will and drive, but green as the grass we run on  Will be nice to have a chance to get her on actual contacts once in a while instead of just my practice board! Poor deprived puppy.

Web just moved back (yaaaaaay for seeing Web again! <3) so I wasn't sure if he would be back in time for classes, but he gets to ride along and play before and after the classes. He was pretty excited about the whole thing lol.


----------



## zeronightfarm

Cheecho and I start classes in october! Can't wait.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Shaina said:


> We started new classes tonight -- I am really excited about Kim's. Taught by two very experienced agility people, both are great but one has an exceptional eye and the other has vast experience running very touchy dogs so really picks up on the effect of movement on path.


What's a "touchy dog"?


----------



## MegaMuttMom

We had so much fun today! There were 4 jumps in a row to the table and the 3rd jump was set up in a way to suck the dogs up the A-frame. ALL the dogs, except Cherokee, went up the A-frame. Cherokee did just what I asked and bolted over the jumps and sat beautifully on the table. But, with time to think, he then got the zoomies and had to go check out the human table, all the way across the room, with the box of donuts on it. He never steals food off the table but he just HAS to go and sniff. He makes everybody laugh so hard.

Anyway, when I got him away from the donuts, we went back to the doggie table and he finished the rest of the course with flying colors including a magnificent entry on the weaves.

He is such a prankster and the clown of class. I just love him 

And, by the way, he is no longer afraid of the teeter!!!!!!!!


----------



## Shaina

GottaLuvMutts said:


> What's a "touchy dog"?


There's probably a better term for it but he's one of those dogs where if you take a step and it's, say, a necessary step but you take it too quickly, the dog is literally 3 jumps away and skidding...or if you look at him at the wrong time suddenly he is warping in and taking a jump you didn't intend as a result of that look...



MegaMuttMom said:


> We had so much fun today! There were 4 jumps in a row to the table and the 3rd jump was set up in a way to suck the dogs up the A-frame. ALL the dogs, except Cherokee, went up the A-frame. Cherokee did just what I asked and bolted over the jumps and sat beautifully on the table. But, with time to think, he then got the zoomies and had to go check out the human table, all the way across the room, with the box of donuts on it. He never steals food off the table but he just HAS to go and sniff. He makes everybody laugh so hard.
> 
> Anyway, when I got him away from the donuts, we went back to the doggie table and he finished the rest of the course with flying colors including a magnificent entry on the weaves.
> 
> He is such a prankster and the clown of class. I just love him
> 
> And, by the way, he is no longer afraid of the teeter!!!!!!!!


Yaaaaaaaaay Cherokee!!!


----------



## DJEtzel

Frag's getting AWESOME at weaves, through no help of mine. Idk what his deal is, but we started out getting him to go down a 12 pole set slid apart so that he could walk easily between them, and tuesday night at drop in (9weeks into agility) we started sliding them back to a close. Well, about an inch or two from close, and Frag flew through them without thinking, perfect entrance and finish along the way, I was completey shocked!

However, I sent him too far for a teeter than he was ready and he stopped in the middle turning to look for me and slid off his hind end. He looked absolutely shocked and I felt really bad, but it didn't phase him long-term. You'd think a dog with as much rear-end awareness training on him would have better control of his back feet and butt!


----------



## lil_fuzzy

So I have been doing contacts with Pixie, 2o2o, and she's sitting at the end of the contact because she's so little. She's doing really well with it, but only while I'm right next to her. She seems to think it's a heeling exercise. If I try to stop one step further back, she will stop too, and either have all 4 on, or have 2 off but be sideways on the plank, facing me.

I have tried waiting her out, but she then just freezes in position, because if she just sits there long enough it must work.

Any tips?


----------



## Shaina

If waiting her out and shaping the little bits of behavior really isn't working, I would try either using something besides the plank in a new place, or teaching some sort of target (either nose or front paws), then adding that to the contact, and fading it. Just to get her moving and getting the reward rate up. But if you are going to train a target and add it back, I would truly shape it so you can get away from this freezing/lack of offering business...no helping! But really reward the little stuff and keep it fun.

For my retrieving maniac I was able to just train the 2o2o from day one at a distance and rewarding with a retrieve, but she's only trialed 5 standard classes so it's too soon to tell if the resulting behavior will stand up to the test of time. Probably mostly contingent on my consistency in releasing properly. For now I am extremely pleased with the result.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

lil_fuzzy said:


> So I have been doing contacts with Pixie, 2o2o, and she's sitting at the end of the contact because she's so little. She's doing really well with it, but only while I'm right next to her. She seems to think it's a heeling exercise. If I try to stop one step further back, she will stop too, and either have all 4 on, or have 2 off but be sideways on the plank, facing me.
> 
> I have tried waiting her out, but she then just freezes in position, because if she just sits there long enough it must work.
> 
> Any tips?


I'd train a separate behavior: use a target plate (I like the 4" x 4" bathroom tiles from Home Depot) and get her really interested in touching it, either with her nose or her front feet. Pair it with a command (touch, spot, whatever). Then you can just put it at the bottom of the contact equipment and give the command while she's still on the equipment.

Also, for small dogs, a lot of people prefer running contacts because the 2o2o behavior eats time and a small dog is unlikely to miss the entire contact zone anyway.


----------



## Sibe

I second the target plate. I use a lid for canned food. A tupeprware lid works too. And I also agree that with a small dog, you shouldn't need to worry about 2o2o. Running contacts are easier on the body for any sized dog anyway. Unless she's missing the contact, I wouldn't worry about it. Or if she's REALLY fast so you want to have the contacts as stops where she can wait a second for you to catch up lol.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

A target is a good idea, can't believe I didn't think of it. Thanks, will try that 

I considered doing running contact with her, but she is my first agility dog and I have no clue what I'm doing and the class is doing 2o2o so I figured why not just do it the way they teach it. Plus, she is actually really really fast when she wants to be, and it wouldn't surprise me if she just jumps off before reaching the contact, or just runs ahead of me.


----------



## Shaina

Agility classes were awesome tonight. Both Kim and Mira were amazing. I am so lucky 

That is all


----------



## DJEtzel

Frag performed pretty well tonight too. I was a little off my game, but we got some videos since my friend came with. I look like crap, sorry. Here is a half run and full run of the course we had tonight. We've switched to using running contacts in the meantime because Frag's been really good about touching contacts and he's just getting annoyed (as am I) working on 2o2o.

As always, critique, comments, ideas are welcome/appreciated! I know we have far to go still!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeChk_BOZY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D964nkgNtqA


----------



## MegaMuttMom

Cherokee has always had great running contacts. His only problem is coming down the A frame. If I have to divert around a tunnel, it tends to pull him off the side. Last week I got out his target and put it at the bottom of the A frame and ran over him over it 3 times. He was so excited to see his target it was hysterical!

Anyway, fast forward to this week. The A frame had tunnels poking out on either side and the course had him going over with me on both sides. I had to take huge detours and his performance was perfect! I can't believe how the targeting last week helped him focus on the proper way to come down and he remembered from last week.

Lil fuzzy, give it a try!


----------



## Sibe

DJEtzel said:


> Frag's getting AWESOME at weaves, through no help of mine. Idk what his deal is, but we started out getting him to go down a 12 pole set slid apart so that he could walk easily between them, and tuesday night at drop in (9weeks into agility) we started sliding them back to a close. Well, about an inch or two from close, and Frag flew through them without thinking, perfect entrance and finish along the way, I was completey shocked!


That style of learning weaves is called "channel weaves" btw.

And the videos look good! He seems very focused and enjoying it. I'm jealous of his table, Nali hates laying down completely. I guess because of the rough surface because she tries to keep her elbows up a little bit.


----------



## DJEtzel

Sibe said:


> That style of learning weaves is called "channel weaves" btw.
> 
> And the videos look good! He seems very focused and enjoying it. I'm jealous of his table, Nali hates laying down completely. I guess because of the rough surface because she tries to keep her elbows up a little bit.


Thanks for letting me know, I had no idea about the different typs of training weaves, this is just how my trainer started us.  I have got to say, of all the stuff, his attention and focus is my favorite part. Other dogs are sniffing stuff and running amok, or running off to see other dogs, but he pays attention to me so well and listens really well, I LOVE it. And down is by far his favorite command/position, so I knew that would be a no-brainer, but I can understand why some dogs wouldn't like it, it's high, new, rough, etc. In AKC they don't even have to sit down on it now though, if that's where you're planning to trial. I will probably do mostly AKC, but I like the security of a down that way I know he's not jumping off the table early.


----------



## Sibe

I like the security of a down too. She will do it pretty well in class, but at trials she usually refuses. I've only done a few AKC so far so it hasn't mattered. Sometimes she'll sit, sometimes I can't even get that and she just stands. But she's never jumped off early. Trials are just so much more exciting for her. Each trial has gotten better and better though and she's still very young. Lots of time for improvement. I'm finding things to help her too, like running her a mile or two before we go, then letting her walk around a lot before we get in the ring. Takes the edge off her energy and helps her focus.


----------



## RaeganW

Weekend Wrap Up: No ribbons.
Tunnelers 1: Pointed at the wrong tunnel. Yelled Crap! and got a laugh, but was later informed this was an excusal. Okay, good to know.
Jumpers 1: Overfaced dog. For some reason thought it was a good idea to ask him to jump 3x as many jumps than I've ever asked him to jump in a row at 4" higher than I regularly jump him in practice. Run kind of fell apart.
Tunnelers 2: Went alright, until Marsh decided to go visit the ring crew???
I have video of course, so more in depth analysis is waiting, up all in all it was a good weekend. The trial site is LOVELY, and the people were great. Learned a lot about what Marsh needs as far as warm up and prep, and what I need. Like, not getting him out of the crate before I've walked, because I will only have to put him right back in, and he doesn't like that.

Tuesday night run thrus, Marsh was AWESOME. Worked on Jumps at 12", tried to practice rear crosses which I'm sure was hilarious, did some work on contacts. 2o2o was not happening. So now I just shout DOWN!!! at him and it works. Sloppy, I know. But it got him down, and he was leaping over the yellow if I didn't, so... Mostly I just need to run and run and run so we can get a rhythm and I can figure out how not to terribly confuse my poor dog. All night he was great. Runrunrunrun, break. Pant, pant, pant, drink. Ball? Runrunrunrunrun. Break. Drink. Treats. Run? Whattadog.

If I can get him to weave, I'll put him in my club's AKC trial in October. It will be nice to debut in AKC at home. My other big goal is a Novice only trial in September, because they have FAST and I love it. 

As far as weaves, we're chugging along with 2x2. He just *can't* make the jump to 4 straight poles! Any offset at all and he's nailing them, and from any angle too, but the second that second set goes shut, he just skips right past them.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

It's been quite a while since I posted an update here, but tonight's class was lots of fun, so I thought I'd brag a little.

Summer always means that people are out of town, or occasionally that the weather is too hot, so classes have been sort of wonky all summer. Sometimes they were cancelled, other times we combined with a much more advanced class or just had a small class. We got in some practice time on grass, but the evening light is gone now, so we're back to having classes in the barn, which we both prefer.

Kit seems to have overcome most of her weaving and jumping issues and is progressing nicely. She ran a full course tonight with the advanced dogs and nailed it. Her little fan club cheered her through another run with just one little bobble. Combining with the more advanced class has meant that we've gotten to work on some more technical stuff recently, and we've really been challenged this summer. I love being at the bottom of the heap, instead of the top, because that's where you learn the most.

We have a trial coming up in October and then I think a few more into the late Fall and Winter. I haven't checked scores online recently, but I might be ready to move her up to open around the new year or so.


----------



## Shaina

GLM-- What venue(s) do you compete in again? NADAC and CPE? I can't remember.



We've been having fun as well. Got an invite to the top lass locally which is just awesome -- the instructors train regularly with some of the top trainers/competitors in the nation, judge around the country, teach seminars, etc...and bring their xp to our little local class. Very very fun and a lot to learn. Unfortunately they only teach one class and I have three dogs, so I have Mira in that class since she benefits most from it and I benefit most from running her. Web is a different sort of dog, and Kim's so intuitive that she masks some of my mistakes by reading what I mean not what I say. Her issue is more with confidence and the occasional snark/incompatible priority, which is rather different . So I learn a lot in Mira's class and take those lessons to the other dogs so all benefit. Next session all three dogs have class (outside! Yay!) back to back so I have three straight hours of agility...should sleep well that night!


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Haven't posted here in a little while  Harleigh is having a blast at agility... and some am I! We had a lot of class rained out last month, so this coming up month we didn't have to pay as much PLUS we get more classes! Its a win-win, lol. Here are a couple videos from Monday. 

She's still in the process of learning the weave poles, but we're slowly starting to phase out the "guides". The main problem that she has is that I haven't been able to find/build any weave poles that are strong enough.





Actually made it in time to do a front cross - which is something I usually can't do because she is so fast, lol.





For a dog that used to be absolutely terrified of the teeter, I think she's come a long way!


----------



## DJEtzel

Nice videos Nikki! 

Frag and I started our intermediate agility class two weeks ago now and we're learning so much more. Frag is running weaves almost closed now, and has been introduced to the chute and loves it. Still hasn't been on a dog walk. After a PERFECT, clean run tuesday night our instructor (AKC agility judge and agility competitor in multiple venues) told me I had to get him to a trial soon because we were ready. Something like CPE she said, she definitely didn't recommend starting now in AKC. I'm glad that she has the faith in me and thinks we're that good, but we will see how we progress. Jon's going to start coming and videotaping.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Sounds like we're all sticking with classes and loving them. Congrats, Shaina, on the invite to the top class.



Shaina said:


> GLM-- What venue(s) do you compete in again? NADAC and CPE? I can't remember.


So far just NADAC. I'll eventually be open to competing in any venue (aside from AKC), but I think NADAC offers a lot of advantages for newbie dogs and handlers, and it's the most popular venue with the local agility club. I've started volunteering for the bigger organizational jobs at trials now, which means I don't have to pay entry fees!


----------



## Shaina

Not having to pay entry fees -- awesome!!!

Glad you're loving NADAC  A couple friends from where I lived before do a lot of NADAC and like it. There's only one or two trials a year within two hours of here so not really an option. We have very occasional USDAA (maybe 3 trials a year), ~6 CPE a year, and about 1.5 AKC a month. So if you only do one venue, you really have one choice, unless you want to travel a lot and stay in hotels.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

On a whim, I decided to look up Kit's points on nadac.com. We're actually getting pretty close to the novice title: we need one more TNG (no problem), plus all the jumpers (big problem!). She's already got chances, regular, tunnelers, and weavers. We've even got the O-WV-N, which requires twice as many points as the WV-N title. Guess weavers is her thing! I'm hoping jumpers starts going better now that we're at 16" instead of 20". In class she's not running around jumps anymore, so that's a start. I just have a hard time keeping her pumped when there's nothing but jumps out there. 

We've got one trial coming up in October, and possibly two in November, if I can get my act (and money) together!


----------



## Shaina

Good luck wrapping up that title!

How tall is Kit? Somehow I just can't picture her as a 16" jumping dog...I mean Webster (22lb) is a 16" jumping dog and he's one of the taller dogs in the class!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

She's around 21" at the withers. She should be jumping 20", but I moved her to "skilled" (4" shorter jumping height), at least till we get to elite. She can jump 20" just fine, but often chooses to run around the jump instead. I'm still in the process of adding value to jumps, and until she really gets the idea that running around jumps doesn't pay, I'll keep her at 16". NADAC is really lenient on stuff like this.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

We start classes again on Wednesday night!!! I'm so excited! 6 months of no classes is INSANE. Hopefully we picked a good new training club


----------



## Sibe

Finkie_Mom said:


> We start classes again on Wednesday night!!! I'm so excited! 6 months of no classes is INSANE. Hopefully we picked a good new training club


Have fun! I might die if I had to go 6 months without.

--
We've been working a lot of wraps, lead outs/lead out pivots, and sending. I lead out past 3 jumps today and Nali was like JHAVIUBAVKSHBVLJSFVBSJBGHBS I WANNA GO!!!! She gets soooo intense and stares me down when I get a big lead out. She is spending too much time around the border collies with that stare she gives me...


----------



## Finkie_Mom

So we had our "first" class last night. It was AWESOME. Kimma did soooooo well! She did the chute, no issues (she was scared of it for a while). Slow teeter, again, no issues (she was/is scared of that, too LOL). GREAT 2o2os at the end of the a-frame and dog walk. Did OK on a short sequence (tire, jump, jump, table), though she overshot one of the jumps and ended up going around the next jump and coming back to me (she's too fast). But we fixed it the second go-around. Was perfect on another even shorter sequence (tunnel, chute). And she shocked everyone when she did 12 straight weaves FAST. They rest of the class is doing channels (which I personally don't like - Kimma was taught using 2x2s), so the trainer had us do the 12 weaves at a close-ish channel once with the rest of the class. Then she sent the rest on to do something else with the other trainer, and put the weaves straight for us. I just let Kimma go and she DID IT! Girl hasn't seen a weave pole in 3-4 months, and even so, they were just in my backyard! Obviously, it was at an easy entry, but still! I, for one, was pleasantly surprised 

Our trainer also commented on her focus on me. She said she was very impressed because this is not the typical agility breed, for the simple fact that they do not tend to focus very well on anything but doing what they want to do, LOL. I let her know that it has taken A LOT of work to get her where she is. We were told that we could move to the next class, but I think that with Kimma's teeter issues, and my need to be able to control her a bit better (when she ran the a-frame the first time off leash and you could hear people gasping - she's MUCH faster than she looks like she would be hahaha), it would be better to start slow. The trainer said we could move up part way through the session if we need to. Kimma also didn't do much boredom barking until the last 10 minutes or so of class, which is a small victory in itself!

SO PROUD OF MY GIRL!!! Another woman who runs her Finkies in agility said that Kimma could very well be the first one of the breed to get a MACH, for various reasons. Not sure about that, exactly, but I do appreciate the vote of confidence! And we can dream, I suppose


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

We also had class tonight...

On the first run, Kit sliced a jump and hit one of the stanchions (side part), knocking the bar. For a second she wasn't putting weight on a back leg, but then she seemed fine. I gave her a treat, a break, and then walked around a bit. She seemed ok, so we did the rest of the class, which ran really long. I dunno if it was because of the long class, the fact that her toe/leg still hurt, or maybe cause I was using treats instead of a ball as a reward, but she wasn't feeling it tonight. She still had enough drive to run the courses, hit her contacts, ace the weaves with a tough entry, etc., but I could tell her heart wasn't in it tonight. She wasn't trying to test me on the start line stay, which is a sure sign that she's had enough. Better luck next week, I guess. I'll bring a ball in case it was the food.


----------



## MegaMuttMom

Last week we worked only on handling skills so, there were only jumps and tables. It was so much fun because it highlighted how much we have learned and how well Cherokee and I can work as a team. I loved it, especially doing blind crosses, which I thought would be a massive failure with my highly distractible dog. He did fabulously and the blind crosses were actually the fastest crosses for us and, now, I will be brave enough to try them in full courses. This session, my teacher seems to be teaching our class as a competitive handling class instead of intermediate because the less experienced classmates aren't attending. I'm loving it and so is Cherokee. He seems to perform best when the tasks are harder. It brings him into focus (maybe the same goes for me).


----------



## Sibe

MegaMuttMom said:


> He seems to perform best when the tasks are harder. It brings him into focus (maybe the same goes for me).


I have found this to be true for Denali and I as well. I think it forces me to focus more and to walk the course an extra couple times, and to be more proactive rather than reactive. I'm finding that I tend to wait for her to move before I tell her what I want (both with my body and voice) but when the course is more challenging I'm on top of it and my cues to her are much better.


----------



## MegaMuttMom

Cherokee had insane zoomies for his first run in class today which was a 3 jump serpentine to another jump and then a call back through the tire. Anyway, much later, the teacher ended class saying he thought all the dogs were "fried" but, I thought Cherokee was just getting settled in. So, we went back to do the first combo and it was like he was a pro. Sometimes I feel like we are in a choreographed dance together. Other times it's mayhem. You just never know what to expect.....


----------



## waterbaby

I don't think I ever joined this thread before. Sophie and I started doing agility last spring. I wasn't sure what to expect out of her when we signed up, but we both ended up having a good time so I've been happy to continue with it. We took a few months off this fall and I decided on a whim to sign up for a 6 week class with a new instructor. 

Our first class was last night. First of all, I _love_ our new instructor. She is so helpful, much more focused on me as a handler, but also really responsive to the different dogs' personalities and skills. Second of all, if I ever doubted that Sophie likes agility, those doubts were washed away last night. She was soooooo wound up when we got there, which I expected. She's a 3.5 yo puppy. But she focused really quickly, loved hitting all the equipment and was just fast and responsive all night. She got a little discouraged doing a series of jumps into a tunnel because I am rather slow compared to her and just wasn't communicating very well, but we backed up and chained it together. I know we'll have some bad classes, but I was really happy with how well she did considering it was her first class back after weeks off.

Anyway, I'm very excited because I think I'll learn a _lot_ about handling in this class. We did a lot of heel work and start line stays and contacts. I'm definitely the novice in the class so I should be able to learn a lot just by watching.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

We had a good class last week! Here were a few videos:

Short sequence with jumps and a table:
Now she FLIES off of the table, here, and she keeps doing that when we have a table as a part of a sequence. I think we need some table work... I don't WANT to slow her down, but maybe I have to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLTrOZEqA9g

Short sequence with Tunnel and Dog Walk:
We need to keep working on contacts. She did her 2o2o, but then she broke it and got off of the Walk. I need to make sure they are solid, because contacts will most likely be my saving grace since she's so fast LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hZRt8IzI8o

Sequence with Tunnel and Weaves:
I think I need to stop treating her after the weaves, as it screws her up. She ended up not taking the last jump because I think I messed with her "flow."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GttAJGVP8_w

As always, any comments/criticisms are appreciated!


----------



## waterbaby

Kimma looks so good! She looks fast, but attentive to you.

Last night in class we did more handling. We ran each sequence 3-4 times using different body language each time to see how our dogs respond to us ... kind of to give us an idea of when and where they need verbal help and how sensitive they are to what we're doing with our bodies and arms. Phew. This class is really hard! I think it will be awesome, but I'm still trying to get used to coordinating giving her a general idea and rewarding in the right place and time. Add trainer instructions like, "stay one step back from the jump, then turn your body 1/4 turn more" and trying to learn front crosses -and- still get the timing right. Wow. I mean, we were doing short, easy sequences (just jumps and tunnels) that Sophie got right away. Then we moved to 101 ways the handler can screw up, basically.

Anyway, it was totally worth it because Sophie completely shocked me as to how much she actually responds to me. Here I thought she was fast and easily distracted, but we did a jump, jump, tunnel sequence a few times. Then all I did was send her over the two jumps and instead of taking the next step towards the tunnel (and saying "tunnel" obviously), I took a step backwards. And she turned right back to me! This is probably old news to most of you (this handling stuff), but I was amazed.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Haven't been around in a while, but am reading some of the updates!  

Me and Harleigh have had to take a short break from agility... she had a strained back muscle and we haven't quite got back to agility yet. We both miss it so much, so hopefully it won't be much longer until we can return!!


----------



## Sibe

nikki, Ouch! Hope she heals quickly! Good to take it easy.

Nali has been doing amazing in class. Tonight the instructor commented yet again about how well she is doing. She said once Nali gets her Excellent titles (AKC) it's likely we'll be invited to the Invitational as Nali will easily be in the top 5 huskies in the country!  I'm so proud of her. I mean, it's not like there's a lot of competition against other huskies as they're not common for agility at all, but it's still awesome! Tonight and last week she was just on fire. Very focused, fast, accurate, doing exactly what I ask. I'm skipping the last two trials of this year but have high hopes for 2012! I hope to finish her Open titles as well as her Excellent titles. She turns 2 in February, it blows my mind that she's doing so well at such a young age. Still taking it pretty easy, just class once a week and trials once or twice a month. No extra practice sessions.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Sounds like everyone is doing well. Keep up the good work! Nikki, sorry to hear about Harleigh's back.

A member of my agility class recently came down with mono and can't run her dog for several more weeks or maybe even months. I offered to step in and run her dog if she'd like. The dog is a female Aussie, medium drive, medium food motivation, a little overweight, pretty clingy. In other words, not what I'm used to. Last week I was surprised to see how fast she ran with me - I was actually out of breath! And as an added benefit, running her gives me an excuse to run Kit in the more advanced class that meets before mine (since I'd rather not run two dogs in one class). Last week's class was so much fun with Kit! The instructor commented that she had never seen Kit run such a complex course so well. The people in that class are all good friends who have been very encouraging from day one. They're also very experienced and accomplished handlers. Kit and I love hearing them cheer after a good run. Eventually we'll probably join that class permanently (can't wait!), but it may be a while before we earn that invitation.

We also had a trial this past weekend and earned 6 more Q's towards our novice superior title. We're getting really close to superiors in weavers and tunnelers! Our next trial is in 2 weeks, and then we have another around new years. We will move up to open in each class as we earn the superior titles.


----------



## waterbaby

Ugh, nikki, that sounds awful! I hope Harleigh is feeling better soon. I love watching your videos, you guys are great together.



Sibe said:


> Nali has been doing amazing in class. Tonight the instructor commented yet again about how well she is doing. She said once Nali gets her Excellent titles (AKC) it's likely we'll be invited to the Invitational as Nali will easily be in the top 5 huskies in the country!


That's an incredible accomplishment, Sibe. I can't even imagine competing yet let alone being so good! You'll have to put up some recent videos.

Do any of you take notes during class? After last night's class, I can't help but think I need to start. I know I'm still the baby in these classes so I expect to be a little clueless, but we've covered something different every week so far and I just can't seem to get my feet under me. Last night we did serpentine handling, which I liked a lot, but it was a full class and we didn't get as much ground time as I would have liked. We also worked on increasing lateral distance from obstacles and it went pretty well. Now I have to be a lot more aware of my body angles and where I'm sending her. Before I could just kind of herd her to the obstacle.

Also wondering where you all compete. I think NADAC is my only real option here.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

LOL Sibe, I will be right there with you, as once Kimma and I get out of Novice we will automatically going to be invited to Nationals since she's one of maaaaayyyybbbeeeee 3 Finkies that compete in agility, hahaha.

nikki - I hope Harleigh feels better soon 

waterbaby - I don't take notes, but I always try to have someone come with me to tape class. Then I can watch the footage and see from that what needs to be worked on. It's been super helpful!!!

We will be doing AKC for sure and I'm not sure what else.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Thanks everyone! Harleigh is feeling much better - she has been off of crate rest for a little while now and has recovered wonderfully. We are still taking it slow, but thinking about going to the December 12th class, which is the last class until after New Years. 

Not sure if I ever shared these, but here are some pictures we got before it got too dark outside (ugh - I hate how early it gets dark now!).

IMG_6345 by AdventuresOfACrazyLab, on Flickr

IMG_6346 by AdventuresOfACrazyLab, on Flickr

IMG_6347 by AdventuresOfACrazyLab, on Flickr

dogwalk by AdventuresOfACrazyLab, on Flickr

IMG_6307 by AdventuresOfACrazyLab, on Flickr


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

waterbaby said:


> Do any of you take notes during class? After last night's class, I can't help but think I need to start. I know I'm still the baby in these classes so I expect to be a little clueless, but we've covered something different every week so far and I just can't seem to get my feet under me. Last night we did serpentine handling, which I liked a lot, but it was a full class and we didn't get as much ground time as I would have liked. We also worked on increasing lateral distance from obstacles and it went pretty well. Now I have to be a lot more aware of my body angles and where I'm sending her. Before I could just kind of herd her to the obstacle.
> 
> Also wondering where you all compete. I think NADAC is my only real option here.


Waterbaby, notes are great when you're a novice handler. If you can go back later and re-set the drills, then you can practice outside of class.

NADAC is a wonderful place to start with a novice dog. It's maybe a little more laid back than some other venues (USDAA, AKC). Courses are a little more open and flowing, with more yardage between obstacles. I've found NADAC competitors and judges to be very open, friendly, and helpful. Eventually I'll be open to competing in any venue except AKC (they will never get a dime from me), but for a newbie handler and a newbie dog, I'll stick with NADAC for now.


----------



## Sibe

Thanks waterbaby! As to notes, I never took them during class but during the first 6-10 weeks of being in classes I would write things down as soon as I got home. Things to work on in between classes, ways to move my body, etc. and I found it very helpful to be able to remind myself.

Finkie, I have never even seen a finnish spitz in person, so it's not surprising to me at all that you'll be in the same boat as I am. It's pretty awesome to have a rarer agility breed- though I imagine the honor in having a border collie or such there is quiet a bit more satisfying than basically being given a guaranteed invite. Either way, I'm excited at the idea of it! Maybe we'll get to meet 

Here are Nali's runs from the end of October, an AKC trial. She is in Open. We were both a little slow that weekend, I think due to the heat. Typically she runs much faster.
JWW was perfect except for knocking the very first bar :doh: and it was a really challenging course. I was incredibly proud of her!





She Q'd in standard right after, a little trouble with the weaves and took the wrong end of the tunnel. She got 2nd place.





JWW the next day. Right off the line someone said "and she went anyway" or something which threw me off, I thought for a second that I jumped the "go" so lost my focus. She took the jump directly in front of her instead of turning because I was really late with my cue. Otherwise great!





She Q'd in standard right after that again, I don't have a vid as the battery died. So of course it was a flawless run.

We just had our last class of the year tonight. No trial until Jan 21-22. No classes until the beginning on January. Sad to take a break but at the same time it's good to let her rest from it.


----------



## LoveCWCs

I just want to say that I've really enjoyed reading all the stories and watching the videos! It's wonderful to see all the dogs of different shapes and sizes be successful in agility and enjoy the training. 

Opal and I have been taking classes since she was 15 weeks old; we started off in conformation, but then moved on to obedience, then herding, agility and now we're going to work on Rally, too. 

Our conformation instructor was a pro handler and the things we learned from her have helped us immensly in every other class we've ever taken. 

Our first agility class started when Opal was about a year old, but previous to that we started working on getting her used to the different equipment. She had issues with objects that were round, probably because she had a bad experience with a bike when she was a puppy and unfortunately remembers everything like an elephant. 

Once she was comfortable with the tire, chutes and tunnels (my mentor has these things) we finally started taking classes and she took to agility like a duck to water. After doing so many other things with her and having her bored or completely disinterested in them, it was wonderful to see her come alive and be the dog I knew she was. 

We are finishing up Agility Beginner's II and we've learned all kinds of things! Most of what we've worked on are course strategies, like front crosses, blind crosses, right/left crosses, post turns, threadeling, serpentine, contacts, etc. Opal is really good at watching me and staying with me- as I've said before to friends, she's a dog that I can't scrape off with a spatula. 

We're working on weaving; she likes to pop out of the weaves when she can. I think in Intermediate I, we'll be working with "real" weave polls and also introducing the teeter. 

Opal is very high drive, so much so that I have to encourage her to chill out and slow down. She's definitely more of a working mentality type dog (constantly go go go even at home) then a couch potato type. That's been the real challenge for me, as I'm a newbie and she's already a professional LMAO!!!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Rackin' up more Q's here. We had 5 runs in today's trial and Q'ed in 4: two TNG and two weavers. That makes 10 weavers Q's, which is enough for our very first novice superior title!!! It's pretty odd that our first title would be in weavers, but I'm not complaining. We need 3 more tunnelers Q's and 3 more TNG Q's for our superiors there. I'll move up in each class as soon as we get those superiors, which means we've officially graduated to Open in weavers! We've got 5 more runs tomorrow, so we'll see how they go.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

So excited!!

We are going to agility class tomorrow, it will be our first time back in FOREVER! I'm so excited and I know Harleigh can't wait


----------



## Shaina

Congrats on the Qs and title, GLM!

And enjoy class, nikki!


I've been traveling the last few weeks and am just happy to see my pups again. We've mostly just be playing around in mud puddles and being silly good-for-nothings. Guess that's situation normal around here though, really


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

GottaLuvMutts said:


> We've got 5 more runs tomorrow, so we'll see how they go.


Woot! 5 more Q's today, so 9 out of 10 for the weekend. We're one measly Q away from our TNG superior and 2 Q's away from our tunnelers superior. We've also been granted permission to join the more advanced class, as long as there's space for us each week. On weeks when it's too crowded, I'll wait for the later, less advanced class.


----------



## Shaina

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Woot! 5 more Q's today, so 9 out of 10 for the weekend. We're one measly Q away from our TNG superior and 2 Q's away from our tunnelers superior. We've also been granted permission to join the more advanced class, as long as there's space for us each week. On weeks when it's too crowded, I'll wait for the later, less advanced class.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Everyone seems like they're having a good time with classes/trials!!! 

Hope your first class back is/was awesome, nikki!!!

GOOO GLM and Kit!!! That's amazing! Congrats on the Qs and title and being invited into the advanced class 

Shaina - That's like what my guys have been doing lately, too LOL. I'm currently working retail and I've been sick on and off for the past few weeks, so my life has been ridiculous. Not as much training going on as I would like. But still lots of hikes/walks/playtime/goofing around 

Only one more class on Wednesday before we break for a month. Boooo!!! We will move up to the next level (I think most in our class is) in January, and then have another 8 week session before we split up even more. After this 8 week session (once we progress out of it, that is) comes the pre-Novice, THEN finally we get to compete! HOPEFULLY we can try some trials by next summer. I'm excited at the prospect, but I'm in no rush. I think that Kimma will let me know when we are ready


----------



## waterbaby

Yay GLM! That's so exciting! 

I had my last agility class (I think!) last night until middle/end of January. I actually have one more class, but I'll be 39 weeks pregnant next week and the last 2 weeks have been killer. I run around all class and don't pay attention to how much it hurts until afterwards, then I can't move for 2 days. So... boo.

Anyway, the last classes have had good and bad. Last night was a pretty easy course in terms of handling. I basically just couldn't keep up with her, which I think was the idea - we did a lot of sending our dogs forward over/through obstacles. Sophie did the dogwalk and contacts beautifully and drove forward over a series of jumps (but didn't get the tunnel at the end), which was pretty cool. She really attacked the jumps, which was fun to see. She always has a lot of enthusiasm, but I rarely see any kind of intensity in her. 

She's been a little sniffy and distracted at the end of class the last 2 nights. I don't know if it's because my enthusiasm has been waning or if it's because class is at an awkward time and I've been feeding her a few hours before we go...

Anyway, have fun with classes everyone and keep reporting so I can at least live vicariously through you!


----------



## DJEtzel

Classes are finally starting back up at the beginning of January. I cannot wait. HOPEFULLY Frag and I will be entering our first agility trial for the first weekend in January, depending on my work schedule. Very excited.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

waterbaby said:


> Yay GLM! That's so exciting!
> 
> I had my last agility class (I think!) last night until middle/end of January. I actually have one more class, but I'll be 39 weeks pregnant next week and the last 2 weeks have been killer. I run around all class and don't pay attention to how much it hurts until afterwards, then I can't move for 2 days. So... boo.
> 
> Anyway, the last classes have had good and bad. Last night was a pretty easy course in terms of handling. I basically just couldn't keep up with her, which I think was the idea - we did a lot of sending our dogs forward over/through obstacles. Sophie did the dogwalk and contacts beautifully and drove forward over a series of jumps (but didn't get the tunnel at the end), which was pretty cool. She really attacked the jumps, which was fun to see. She always has a lot of enthusiasm, but I rarely see any kind of intensity in her.
> 
> She's been a little sniffy and distracted at the end of class the last 2 nights. I don't know if it's because my enthusiasm has been waning or if it's because class is at an awkward time and I've been feeding her a few hours before we go...
> 
> Anyway, have fun with classes everyone and keep reporting so I can at least live vicariously through you!


OMG, agility when you're 8mo pregnant? Are you crazy? Coming off a course, I'm usually completely out of breath, and I'm young, fit, a non-smoker, with no allergies/asthma. I can't imagine trying to keep up at anything more than a couple of months pregnant. Not to mention the risk of falling - I've done a faceplant more than once in agility.


----------



## LoveCWCs

OMG I'm pregnant, too! AND still taking agility classes and adding on Rally this time around... Congrats on your new soon-to-arrive addition!!!!!

I'm only three months along and not even really showing yet. 

Our next set of classes is starting at a different facility, one that's known for competition. Our old facility was more for fun. Truthfully, the only reason we're doing a new facility is that classes filled up too quickly this time and due to the holidays, I just couldn't send the money in when they needed it. 

This new place has instructors that compete on an international level with their dogs. One in particular is considered, "world class." 

Frankly, this makes me a bit nervous because I'm incredibly new at agility (just started training about seven months ago) and I don't know the first thing about competing. I also don't really have that "killer instinct" that so many people seem to have when it comes to WINNING. I also get a bit sensitive when people start yelling, so I'm hoping they don't flip out on me if I do something goofy (which will happen). 

Anyway. We'll see what happens!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

LOL, generally even the top competitors can recognize that this is a game and we play it for fun. I train with some top-notch competitors and no one yells (although my former instructor was a believer in old-school methods, and would yell at a dog, alpha-roll, throw things, etc. - but that's whole different thread). My current instructors are reasonable, friendly people who really truly love dogs and have normal people skills, as I believe most agility instructors do. 

Now, that's not to say that there isn't sometimes some frustration with handlers who lack consistency. I guess my advice would be to have very clear ideas about what your criteria are (start-line stay, contact performance, etc.) and then stick to them. Try not to worry about wasting other class member's time by correcting these things if they aren't solid.

It's interesting that your old "for fun" facility's classes filled quickly, but the new place with the top handlers had openings. I would think it would be the other way around.


----------



## waterbaby

GottaLuvMutts said:


> OMG, agility when you're 8mo pregnant? Are you crazy? Coming off a course, I'm usually completely out of breath, and I'm young, fit, a non-smoker, with no allergies/asthma. I can't imagine trying to keep up at anything more than a couple of months pregnant. Not to mention the risk of falling - I've done a faceplant more than once in agility.


Haha! you would do it too, I think. It's hard to give up all your activities. Everything Sophie and I do together requires a lot of energy. Agility is actually manageable. We only do about 4 obstacles at a time. My instructor said she competed up to 36 weeks and was back competing 2 weeks after her baby was born. Now that is nuts - she runs border collies.

I did kind of want a video though. Maybe I should just go to that last class... 

LoveCWCs, I would actually be doing rally now instead of agility if it were an option. But they can't get enough people to get a class together. :/ So we do freestyle and agility instead.


----------



## And

I am glad to read about everyone's successes in trailing and training! I am home from a 6 month exchange trip to Australia and Belle and I will hopefully begin training again soon. (If I have enough money saved up! ) Also looking into a CPE trial near the end of January and finally starting to trial in USDAA... Belle finished off her Teacup Agility Championship with a friend when I was away so we can focus on those 2 venues now. Hopefully the two of us are not too rusty when we go play agility again!


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

We had our first class back since Harleigh's injury (our 12/12 class got canceled) and I got some videos. Keep in mind that we hadn't been to class since October 24th, so we were a little bit rusty. Okay, a LOT rusty.

You should have seen her at the weave poles - needless to say we're definitely going to be working on them, A LOT.

This was our first run. We did an advanced snooker course, this was the closing of the course. I won't say anymore, you can just see how bad we were and how crazy Harleigh was. I don't blame her, this was her first doing ANY type of agility except for jumps in a long time. Everyone seemed to enjoy her little episode 





Thankfully we got a little bit smoother as the night went on, but I'm hoping next week we'll get into a better groove. I will say that I was VERY pleased with her 2o2o on the a-frame! However, I think the one video that you can see her coming down she doesn't do very good haha.












 (the one time she didn't stick her 2o2o, lol)

Unfortunately, I only got the ending of this. We did jump, tunnel, come/teeter and turn/chute. For those who remember Harleigh's issues with the teeter, she had absolutely no hesitation at all tonight!!! My, how far we have come


----------



## And

Belle and I have been doing a bit of training as well as trying to get back into shape, for the both of us! We are going to be starting a new class in the next few weeks called Advancing Through Jump Grids. I am really looking forward to it because Belle has some jumping issues, and this class should hopefully help us out a bit! It also incorporates some of Susan Salo's work, and seeing as I cannot spend $450 dollars to go to one of her seminars this is the next best thing! Also we are doing private training/lessons on running contacts with a friend. That is going so-so.. However I know this will take us some time!
As for trials.. I am thinking about registering her for USDAA this weekend and then in 2 weekends taking her to run in Jumpers and possibly Steeplechase/Performance Speed Jumping (seeing as I will be running her in Performance 8"). I am looking forward to that! We also have our first full weekend of trailing (hopefully) in the middle of February for a CPE trial at our training facility! Big plans for this year I hope!! And on top of all this I am trying to get a new puppy...


----------



## Sibe

We start classes again next Tuesday, I am so excited!!! But then we trial that weekend (AKC), I'm kind of nervous about it since we haven't done anything since mid-December. Classes were supposed to start back up this last Tuesday but it was postponed another week.

She needs one more Standard Q for her Open title. She doesn't have any JWW Qs yet in Open.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Sibe said:


> We start classes again next Tuesday, I am so excited!!! But then we trial that weekend (AKC), I'm kind of nervous about it since we haven't done anything since mid-December. Classes were supposed to start back up this last Tuesday but it was postponed another week.
> 
> She needs one more Standard Q for her Open title. She doesn't have any JWW Qs yet in Open.


Remind me: what does JWW stand for? I don't know the AKC acronyms.

Had a moment of panic tonight: took Kit to agility class and then put on her fleece jacket because I was going to dinner with friends while she stayed crated in the cold car. When I got home and got her out, I thought I saw a limp. I got all worried, but the velcro on the fleece jacket had come partially open and the jacket was falling off, tripping her. She was fine as soon as I got it off. 

We've got 6 runs at a trial on Saturday. If I'm lucky, we'll earn our novice superior title in TNG, which means we'll be ready for Open in two classes (weavers and TNG). Wish us luck!


----------



## Sibe

JWW = Jumpers With Weaves

Tunnels are also included.


----------



## LoveCWCs

Well, we had our first agility class last night after the holiday season, but it's technically the second class of this session. We had to miss the first because Opal was playing frisbee and jumped like a maniac (caught the frisbee of course) but came down wrong on one of her front legs. 

Then, since we're trying a new facility, we got ridiculously lost in the snow on the way there and finally found the facility which is in the ghetto.  

When we got there, the session was almost done, but they did let us get one run in, and she did really well. We just did a short sequence and worked on front cross, and we just tore through it because that's old hat stuff for us. 

The instructor is thinking of upping our jump height and letting us practice at 12 inches, because she has no trouble jumping that. She's a bit higher on leg then most Cardigans, so it's not such a big deal for her as it would be for a much lower dog. 

We DID start work on the teeter, and Opal did fine with that. 

Right after that, we started our first Rally class, and I like Rally! It's easy to do, but hard to do right. Opal and I definitely need to work on our finishes and heeling.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

So we finally got some weave poles built and have been practicing! She seems to "remember" what the weaves are


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Good luck at your trial, Sibe! You have to let us know how she does (obviously!) 

Have fun tomorrow, GLM! I know Kit will do great! 

We had our first class back on Wednesday since the holiday break. It was lots of front crosses/discrimination stuff (so work for the handlers, not really for the dogs LOL), which is what I need more and more of. Kimma did wonderfully. Everything was just solid. Even if I messed up a bit, she nailed it. I just can't wait to start competing with her. I'm glad we are taking our time (getting in some Open stuff even before we begin Novice - it's the way the club does things LOL), but I'm so anxious hahaha.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Finkie_Mom said:


> We had our first class back on Wednesday since the holiday break. It was lots of front crosses/discrimination stuff (so work for the handlers, not really for the dogs LOL), which is what I need more and more of. Kimma did wonderfully. Everything was just solid. Even if I messed up a bit, she nailed it. I just can't wait to start competing with her. I'm glad we are taking our time (getting in some Open stuff even before we begin Novice - it's the way the club does things LOL), but I'm so anxious hahaha.


Oh, totally. Working beyond the level you're trialing at is paramount. Case in point: Kit has been weaving 12 poles in class for over a year now, but has never seen 12 at a trial (but that's coming soon!) My current agility class is composed exclusively of dogs who are already in elite. Several of them have their NATCH's, or even multiple NATCH's (me = in awe). It's good for me, because I learn way more by being the least experienced handler in an advanced class than by being the most experienced handler in an intermediate class.

My instructors (hubby/wife team) are on vacation right now for 3 weeks :-( It's ok, though, because we have a substitute instructor and he rocks.

Off to bed now so that Kit can get her beauty sleep before the trial tomorrow!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Oh, totally. Working beyond the level you're trialing at is paramount. Case in point: Kit has been weaving 12 poles in class for over a year now, but has never seen 12 at a trial (but that's coming soon!) My current agility class is composed exclusively of dogs who are already in elite. Several of them have their NATCH's, or even multiple NATCH's (me = in awe). It's good for me, because I learn way more by being the least experienced handler in an advanced class than by being the most experienced handler in an intermediate class.
> 
> My instructors (hubby/wife team) are on vacation right now for 3 weeks :-( It's ok, though, because we have a substitute instructor and he rocks.
> 
> Off to bed now so that Kit can get her beauty sleep before the trial tomorrow!


Yeah, we've been doing 12 weaves for months LOL. And we do serpentines and pinwheels and all that junk. It's just SO MUCH FUN that I can't wait to see how she does in competition (so then I can see what I need to work on more, too, because I'm sure I will be a mess LOL). Right now, I'm the high/middle of my class, but that's pretty much just because I've never done it before (we have handlers in there that have competed with other dogs). I am pretty sure that once we work our way to Monday nights (the competition level classes) we will be in the bottom of the group. And that's totally cool with me!

Hope you guys have fun at your trial


----------



## Shaina

Good luck to everyone trialing this weekend


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Not only did Kit get her TNG superior and 4 more Q's today (that's 5/6 for anyone counting), I got to watch my closest agility friend and mentor earn his NATCH2 with his bullet of a BC. So awesome to watch!

Our TNG run was beautiful, but the other Q's were dirty dirty dirty! Kit is easily distracted on course and I find it very difficult to prevent this, especially in places other than our own regular training facility. I wonder how far I'd get if I worked on just keeping her attention in distracting settings (dog park, crowded street market, etc.).


----------



## And

@GottaLuvMutts - Congrats on the Q's! I don't think it would hurt just to try and keep Kit's attention in all sorts of distracting settings! Other than that though I don't know enough about distractions, how is her recall?? 

So we have not 'officially' started our jumping/jump grid class yet, 2 weeks I believe it starts. For now we have been able to train with one of the owner's of my training facility on running contacts! We are using the Silvia Trkman method and things are actually going really well (knock on wood). Coming from a dog who has had no contact performance we have been able to raise a dogwalk plank to about 2" off the ground and she hits the contact nearly 100% of the time. The plans for that now is to just keep raising the dogwalk plank & using a lowered dog walk to make sure she still hits her running contacts. My ultimate goal would be to have nice running contacts by the end of February.. we can dream? 

However this weekend we are trialing in USDAA for the first time! I only entered her in Jumpers on both days & Performance Speed Jumping on Saturday. She has a decent A-Frame contact so I didn't think it would be bad to just give it a try. This will be our first trial since I left for Australia in July, so who knows what will happen. I am excited to see an actual USDAA trial and we will go out and just have a few fun runs! No expectations, just going out to run!

Hope everyone has been doing well in their training & good luck to anyone trialing this weekend!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

We had a good class last night. She had some trouble with 180s, but only because she decided that instead of turning in a way that completes the 180, she would go straight ahead for the table LOL. (The class before us did lots of table work, and I think there were some good treats/crumbs there hahaha). So yay for her listening 

She's usually good with 180s and serpentines/pinwheels, so I'm not too concerned. It was just really funny LOL. It was good on the second try, though!

We also did some more difficult weave entries, which she nailed. I'm so happy with her weaves thus far. Here are a couple of videos from last night. Sorry for the quality - I had my camera on some weird setting and my friend taking the video didn't notice haha:


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Nice videos, Finkie. Your practice barn is extremely similar to ours - I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't the same place. 

And, Kit's recalls are generally good. I don't think the sniffing is displacement behavior - she just has a good nose and likes to use it in new places, particularly where there have been other dogs, treats, horses, etc. It's hard to work on it much, cause she doesn't do it in class or practice at our normal training facility - mostly it's in new places where we trial. Frustrating!

Good luck to anyone trialing this weekend! Although there's a trial near me, I have other commitments this weekend, so I'll be skipping it. We have agility league on Sunday, though.


----------



## Sibe

Finkie that was great!!

Denali can almost always hit entries in class but she rarely gets it the first time at trials. She likes to shove her nose into the grass as she approaches, ugh.

So after being off for 2 months and only one class right before the trial last weekend (which was great, she got her OA title!), I then showed up to class Tuesday and the field was dark- great, it only takes me an hour of driving and costs me $6 in tolls and $8 in gas to get out there and back.. I emailed the instructor and apparently she'd sent out an email telling us there was no class but I didn't get the message. There is also no class next week because the Club is having a dinner for members. The next week there is a class, and I'm trialing that weekend. Just wonderful. I thought we were going to have a few weeks of classes before the trial, not just one again! :/ I am definitely going to need to make a PVC jump or two and practice at home. I have weaves but no other equipment at home. I have a good guide on making a PVC jump at least!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Nice videos, Finkie. Your practice barn is extremely similar to ours - I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't the same place.
> 
> And, Kit's recalls are generally good. I don't think the sniffing is displacement behavior - she just has a good nose and likes to use it in new places, particularly where there have been other dogs, treats, horses, etc. It's hard to work on it much, cause she doesn't do it in class or practice at our normal training facility - mostly it's in new places where we trial. Frustrating!
> 
> Good luck to anyone trialing this weekend! Although there's a trial near me, I have other commitments this weekend, so I'll be skipping it. We have agility league on Sunday, though.


Thanks, GLM! Yeah, I actually really like where we train. Big enough for full courses, but not too heavily distracting. Though Kimma always finds stuff on the ground to smell and/or eat. Gross 

Though as long as she's not interrupting her runs to sniff, I have no problem with it! It's while we are waiting that she goes nuts with it. Fine by me as she used to get distracted by smells and go off course. Took lots of work including a 6 month break from agility and most off leash stuff to work on it.



Sibe said:


> Finkie that was great!!
> 
> Denali can almost always hit entries in class but she rarely gets it the first time at trials. She likes to shove her nose into the grass as she approaches, ugh.
> 
> So after being off for 2 months and only one class right before the trial last weekend (which was great, she got her OA title!), I then showed up to class Tuesday and the field was dark- great, it only takes me an hour of driving and costs me $6 in tolls and $8 in gas to get out there and back.. I emailed the instructor and apparently she'd sent out an email telling us there was no class but I didn't get the message. There is also no class next week because the Club is having a dinner for members. The next week there is a class, and I'm trialing that weekend. Just wonderful. I thought we were going to have a few weeks of classes before the trial, not just one again! :/ I am definitely going to need to make a PVC jump or two and practice at home. I have weaves but no other equipment at home. I have a good guide on making a PVC jump at least!


Thanks, Sibe! We've worked hard at the entries, and she has never had an issue with weaving in class or elsewhere so far. Hopefully it stays that way! We have too many other things to work on HAHAHA. 

I used this for building my jumps - http://www.instantagility.com/2008/04/14/bar-jump-or-hurdle/. I have 4 of them now (perfect number for us) and I use them constantly. And since they didn't cost that much to make, I just leave them outside on the porch when we aren't using them


----------



## Sibe

That jump is basically the same as I am doing. Instead of adjustable jump cups I will be cutting off part of the T connector. The jump will only be able to be set at 20", with a lower bar at 12".

Speaking of jump heights, Denali was measured at 16 months old to be 21 and 1/4" which has her jumping 20" for AKC. She is coming up on her 2nd birthday so will need to be remeasured. I am hoping and praying that she hasn't squeaked up another 3/4" because that would have her jumping 24". I'm not going to do that, instead I would just enter in Preferred. I see no reason to have her jump 24". I'm not going to measure her myself to get an idea, I like living in ignorance for now haha. At 9 months old she was 20 and 3/4", so between then and 16 months she only grew 1/2 inch. I'm sure she's going to be under 22.


----------



## Sibe

I built two jumps today! For stability purposes, the bottom bar is built in and cannot be knocked. The top bar is displacable.










Cost for two jumps:
10 feet long, 3/4" pvc (x4) = $7.88
T Connector (x12) = $3.96
End caps (optional) (x12) = $4.20

PVC cutters = $12.98
PVC purple primer (optional) = $2.22

Total = $30.30

I already had blue painter's tape for the stripes.

If you already have (or can borrow) cutters and don't use the optional stuff, it would have been about $10.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Nice jump, Sibe! We (uh my dad, lol) built 3 jumps for Harleigh, definitely have been enjoying having sturdy jumps around.

On the subject of jumping and Harleigh... we had agility class last night and I think we had two of our "best" runs! We've had some other great ones before at class, but last night everything went so good. Harleigh seemed to be following whatever I did and we just seemed in sync.. it was nice, lol. Her turns were awesome as well.

I figured she would be a bit distracted as we had 2 new dogs in class - which she was in between our runs, but when it came to our turn she was all business 









Ya'll can be jealous I'm in shorts  LOL - the joys of a Florida winter!


----------



## Sibe

:frusty::frusty::frusty:

At the trial in January, Denali got her Open Standard title on Saturday. I did the moveup form for Sunday.

I had already submitted the form for the trial this coming weekend, and had marked Open of course since she hadn't gotten the last Q yet. After the trial in January I completely forgot to move her up for this trial. I always double check everything a couple weeks before but I had a few migraines that completely messed up my head (husband almost took me to the hospital, I am still having random numbness and not ok). So I called and of course it's too late to do anything now. I'll run as is tomorrow, do another moveup form, and run Excellent on Sunday. I'm so mad at myself.

:doh:


----------



## Shaina

Oops  Well...hopefully they run Standard first and you get a really get totally stress-free practice run on Saturday to kick off the weekend


----------



## Sibe

JWW is first, then Standard. I figure I already paid so I might as well stick around and get the run in! I'm trying to be positive but I'm embarrassed. At least I have the excuse of my brain exploding, right? lol


----------



## Shaina

Meh, it happens, no need to be embarrassed! Honestly, I can't imagine a single person caring other than being bummed for you that an entry fee was wasted. You guys are doing great! A silly paperwork issue is no biggie at all.


----------



## Sibe

Her JWW run went awesome today. I'm not sure why she decided to take that jump to the side before the tunnel in the beginning, so with the wrong course there we didn't Q. But I'm very happy with the run! She was really focused and didn't have any zoomies. I'm having a hell of a time trying to keep her nose up when she goes into the weaves though, she almost always misses them at trials because she starts to smell around. Even walking around and warming up before our run her nose is GLUED to the grass.





Then our Standard run, just for fun and practice since I forgot to move her up but she has been moved up to Excellent for tomorrow. Husband was a second late hitting the record button, first obstacle was the tire. And again with the weaves! She seemed like she was going to head straight into them but then she blew by them all. She also refused a jump in order to eat a feather. How do I keep her little nose up??





Edit to add a pic! Focusing before our JWW run.


----------



## Shaina

Sibe she reminds me a lot of Kim early on...it looks like the weaves are really stressing her out. She is probably somewhat stressed throughout the course but the weaves require a lot of concentration so that tends to be where it shows up for a lot of dogs. How does she do on the weaves outside of trials? At home, at class, at new non-trial places?

That JWW run looked really nice. She seemed a bit deflated after the weaves but she came off the start line nicely and that was a pretty lead out . The OC jump situation was hard to see for me...I couldn't tell how much lateral motion you were giving her but I think she really thought she was supposed to go straight. 

In any case, good luck tomorrow!


----------



## Sibe

Outside of trials she's fine with the weaves. She can hit pretty tough entrances, consistently, and on the first send. Though if we haven't been to class in a while she will have her nose in the grass and I have to really work to get her motivated enough to hit them without smelling around. I have weaves at home and she never has any trouble at all with them. She flies through them. At one trial she even peed at the first pole.

Someone at the trial today mentioned to me that she was seeming stressed with the weaves. What are the signs she's stressed, opposed to just smelling something?


----------



## Shaina

Well sniffing can be sniffing or it can be an avoidance behavior and it looks to me more like she's dropping her head and body as she runs by the weaves, not really sniffing. That and it would be odd if the only place on course that there is consistently a smell she can't resist is right before the weaves . It looks like she _sees_ the weaves and just isn't confident about it so curves around checks out a bit, then regains some confidence when she can enter carefully and with your help. 

I would have sworn to you that Kim knew weaves inside and out...could do them anywhere...but at trials the weakness of confidence manifested way more often that I liked. In her case it was shoddy foundation work, because all of Kim's foundation work was shoddy lol. Poor, forgiving, eternally retrained Kim!

One thing that helped for us was breaking it down to just two poles on a practice course and really charging into them. Then slowly rebuilding to four, six, then twelve poles. I think it helped her to not see the weaves as this one big obstacle to be tackled but to just focus on and seek the entry...which is much less stressful. And from there, well you've already found where to start, the rest is cake! 

Every dog is different and you know your dog better than I do but the stress and lack of confidence would be my best bet from what I see. She may just get better with time anyway. Just an idea, though 

Good luck again today, and don't worry!


----------



## Alerondogs

Savvy is starting sequencing in class 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150667822930850&set=vb.287557245498&type=2&theater


----------



## Sibe

Thanks Shaina, I'll bring it up with my trainer on Tuesday and give the charging method a try


----------



## Sibe

Nali had an AWESOME run in Standard. It was a really tricky course with some tough angles but she did it all fantastically. The weaves were an awkward angle and right off the table but she got right in and did them the first try. Out of the weaves was a tunnel which was set to suck dogs in the wrong end of it but I called her and she went in the right way. That part (table -> weaves -> tunnel -> dw) was one of the hardest parts so I was really happy. She got really excited going down the dogwalk to the next tunnel and she missed the contact zone. I was sooooo excited with how great the rest of the run was though, I was all smiles.  She did awesome.










Her Jumpers run was great.. until she saw a dog right next to the fence after the second jump. Some random guy was standing right up against the fence with his dog. Nali went over the first two jumps then straight over to the dog. Then her focus was totally gone, right after the next jump was the weaves and she went into them on the first try but then stopped weaving halfway through. Started smelling. I restarted her and again she stopped. Tried again and she missed the first pole but was in so I just let her keep going to get through them and be super excited for her for doing them. After my run the judge was walking toward the guy to tell him to back up, but my instructor beat him to it and she gave the guy quite an earful from my understanding. I didn't hear it. Oh well. There's always next time.


----------



## Shaina

Nice! Congratulations!

That judge always has such smooth courses


----------



## Sibe

The JWW was very smooth but I overheard more than one comment about the standard one being a little choppy. I think because of the angles off the teeter, off the table, and out of the #16 tunnel. The rest of it was pretty smooth. I did really like his courses!


----------



## Shaina

Yeah with the teeter I guess I depends on if you can get there and how your dog exits the teeter. The tunnel he gave lots of room before the triple so that looks pretty nice. The Table-Weave angle is actually very very similar to a course he build a while ago -- generally dogs did well if their handlers held back or shaped it, but the handlers who crept too far down course often had their dogs skip the entry and jump in farther down the line. Sounds like you guys handled it great though!


----------



## Sibe

Almost everybody (self included) stayed on the left of the teeter then cut in front of it. Out of the tunnel was very nice to have that space but a few dogs still did get sucked over the #6 jump. For the table, most people (self included) did a front cross to it. Then your body was already in a great position to guide the dog off and into the weaves. I walked that part sooo many times to get the feel of where my feet needed to be pointing and how far I should push her. Most dogs got it just fine, and I was surprised how many managed to take the right side of the tunnel instead of the end opening up right after the weaves. I was expecting more dogs to come flying out of the weaves and straight into the open end in front of them.


----------



## Sibe

Harumph. Apparently "we're having class even if it snows" means "unless the parking lot is muddy." I threw away the premium for the next trial that I'd already filled out for March 17-18th. I want at least 4-5 weeks of classes before I trial again. We haven't had a class in over 2 months (except one in January) and I don't feel it's fair to me or Nali to show up at trials and expect to do well when we're not able to practice. It gets me too nervous and frustrated, and that's not good. Not to mention the money.. AKC trials ain't cheap.

I can practice some at home with weaves and those 2 jumps I built but it's nothing like class and being able to run full courses.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Sibe - One thing that helped Kimma get out of her sniffing habit was to break down sequences/courses in to MUCH smaller pieces and reward more frequently. Essentially building more value for the obstacle itself. It also has helped her speed. We did that for jumps (LOTS of one jump work) and the tunnel especially, since contact equipment was already highly rewarding (except for her darn fear of the teeter!). So she's not concerned with the world around her, but with what obstacle comes next. 

Sorry your class was cancelled... You can always just see how she fares after having class for a few weeks before the trial and enter her if you feel she's ready 

We had a nice class last night! She's getting her speed back (I had had to slow her down a bit to gain some control), which is awesome. I know I still have tons to work on, but I'm proud of our progress thus far. A few videos:

Sequence with jumps:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oINF9I1Jrac

I had to shove treats in her face after the tunnel because the weaves were right there and she LOVES weaving LOL:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqTeTThSQmc

Part of a Jumpers course:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=B30NWGP-ycs

She was also a bit more barky than usual while we were waiting for our turns to go... But if it means she's more in to the game, I'll take it!


----------



## Sibe

You guys look great  Go Kimma!!

I do need to wait before signing up for another trial, I only did the two trials so far this year because we were supposed to be having classes. We've done pretty well (I mean she did get her Open Standard title!) but both of us are too out of practice for trials right now. If we have class next week and it goes really well I might sign up for a 3 day trial at the end of March.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

We're trialing this weekend. I'm looking for superiors in tunnelers (1 Q needed, we just get one chance at it) and regular (2 Q's needed, we get 4 chances at it). We will also have our first run in open weavers (first time Kit's ever seen 12 poles in a trial) and our second run in open TNG. Feels nice to be movin' on up.

I couldn't be happier with progress in class. Kit has never been more enthusiastic for every run. She's fast, though I'm young and fit, so I tend to do a decent job at keeping up. Her accuracy is improving, and we continue to work on more complex, technical handling skills. She has very nice weaves, stellar contacts, and a solid turn away, all of which serve us well. Our biggest challenge now is distance work. Being in the more advanced class is fabulous for both of us - doG knows I love a challenge. Tonight, a friend who rarely gives out compliments unless she means them (sort of like me) commented on what a fabulous agility dog Kit is. Not "you've come so far" or "good, considering where she came from", or "your hard work is paying off" but a genuine compliment about Kit's natural ability. Last week one of the instructors who doesn't often say much commented out of the blue "I just love this dog." 

In addition to Kit, I'm running an extra dog (not mine) in a less advanced class each week. Her owner is very ill and can't participate right now, so I'm stepping in so that the dog doesn't lose the privilege. The dog is a red merle Aussie. I like her ok (generally a nice dog), but she's not as drivey as Kit, nor as food/toy-motivated. She's a much easier (well-behaved) dog than Kit, but not soft. She's a bit clingy, even with her owner, and most of the time I end up feeling like a cheerleader. It's good experience for me to go back to basics, though, and good experience to work with a dog entirely different from my own. Doesn't make me want an Aussie, though.

ETA: After major success today, I just had to brag to someone. We were 6 for 6 (perfect day!!!!), earning both of the regular Q's we needed, AND the last tunnelers Q!!! Today's open weavers run was particularly smooth - she found all 3 weave pole entrances on her own on the first try, didn't even blink at seeing 12 poles for the first time in trial, and beat the next best time by several seconds. So Kit is officially in open in everything except jumpers, chances, and hoopers (though hoopers is sort of a joke and doesn't count for much in NADAC). Tomorrow we have another 6 runs including those 3 classes, so I'm hoping for a repeat of today.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Had a disappointing class last night. I was a bit all over the place, and therefore Kimma was too LOL. She had a weird/random obsession with the table and kept going to it (I'm assuming there were treat crumbs on/around it), but at least she would come back to me after getting off course. And she also would run for one of my instructors, which is cool (in case I can't run her for some reason at least I know she might listen to others!). Here are a couple of videos from last night:

I wish the beginning of this was caught, and I wish there wasn't other people/equipment in the way LOL. She actually did nicely:





This took us a few times to get (she kept going to that darn table!). I'm also trying to figure out how far I should lead out with her (she's fast so I FEEL like I need to lead out a lot, but she also needs direction so I can't lead out TOO much - maybe as I/we get better and gain more experience I can lead out more). I also wish the weaves weren't open!!!


----------



## Sibe

Finkie, she looked good in the vids! I also struggle with how much to lead out. Classes are great practice because since we do each course a few times I can try different things. I like to do big lead outs when I can because sometimes it's the best option for a trial, so having had the practice in class I won't chicken out. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJAwEW3A



GottaLuvMutts said:


> ETA: After major success today, I just had to brag to someone. We were 6 for 6 (perfect day!!!!), earning both of the regular Q's we needed, AND the last tunnelers Q!!! Today's open weavers run was particularly smooth - she found all 3 weave pole entrances on her own on the first try, didn't even blink at seeing 12 poles for the first time in trial, and beat the next best time by several seconds. So Kit is officially in open in everything except jumpers, chances, and hoopers (though hoopers is sort of a joke and doesn't count for much in NADAC). Tomorrow we have another 6 runs including those 3 classes, so I'm hoping for a repeat of today.


Congrats!!!!


----------



## And

@GottLuvMutts Congratulations on your perfect day!!









So the past weekend I took Belle down for 1 day of a CPE trial, we entered as Day of Show. We had another great day! 4 out of 5 Q's. Our NQ was in standard we had an off-course on a tunnel/weave discrimination.. I handled it wrong. However, Belle had a perfect running dogwalk contact, her first ever - that made the whole trial for me!

We had a 1st place & Q in Level 5 Fullhouse and 2 Rounds of Jumpers. All 3 were nice runs.
We had a 2nd place & Q in Level C Snookers. This was our first Level C class and we had a really nice run. Our 7 point A-Frame contact was not counted.. I was pretty positive she made the contact, but who knows. We had a great run regardless!

Belle needs a Q in standard to finish Level 4, and then we need only 24 more Q's in Level 5 to finish our CPE Championship! 

This weekend we are running our first full USDAA trial. Should be interesting!! After this weekend we have a few weekends off!
I will try to actually get videos at this trial..


----------



## Kyllobernese

The finally have the indoor arena ready to use and are going to start some Agility classes on the 15th of March. I use the word "classes" but there is actually no trainer. People just come and bring their dogs and use the equipment. We have a trial on the 9th-10th of March so last Wednesday and the next two Wednesdays, we are taking the dogs to the arena to practice on the Agiltity equipment. They had a great time last Wednesday even though they have done no Agility since last fall. I have both Remmy and Kiska entered and my sister has Mikey entered. We are renting the arena for an hour which gives us time to put up the equipment, do some practicing, and put the equipment away. Really looking forward to getting back doing Agility again.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Sibe - Oh yeah, I tried a few distances in class on that specific run, and the one where I didn't lead out at all is the one that she followed me on! So go figure! She's usually pretty good about my leading out. But now I know to keep thinking about it and experimenting when I can 

GLM - Wow - you guys are on FIRE! How did the rest of your weekend go?? 

And - Glad you had a good weekend!!! That's so cool how close you are to your CPE Championship! Good luck this weekend and have fun 

Kyllobernese - I hate taking agility breaks... And we don't even trial yet! Sounds like a cool opportunity to get some great extra practice in. Wish I could find a place like that around here...


----------



## sassafras

I am just taking for-fun classes, but I have a question. Both Maisy and Squash like to _walk_ over the broad jump, even if there are only one or two segments put together. I don't really care because we're never going to compete, but any tips? Would approaching them faster help?


----------



## agility collie mom

Jump bar in front and behind the boards on the broad jump will help them figure out that they are suppose to jump it. Once they get the idea than eliminate the rear bar and finally the front bar.


----------



## sassafras

agility collie mom said:


> Jump bar in front and behind the boards on the broad jump will help them figure out that they are suppose to jump it. Once they get the idea than eliminate the rear bar and finally the front bar.


That's a great idea, thank you.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Finkie_Mom said:


> GLM - Wow - you guys are on FIRE! How did the rest of your weekend go??


Good, we were 4 for 6 on Sunday. We got the jumpers and hoopers Q's we needed, but not the chances Q. There was an off course fault near the beginning. The frustrating part was that she nailed the rest of the course, including the distance challenge, which is what is tested in chances. Oh well, I'm just glad we got 1 chances Q on Saturday - it was my first chances Q in a very long time. Overall, it was a fabulous weekend - at no point did Kit disconnect from me while running, which is a new record. 

I'm busy with work, so it'll be several weeks before we trial again. We have a special skills trial coming up in April that will include tunnelers, weavers, and TNG. At the end, they choose the winners of the Willamette Cup based on who got the most Q's in novice, open, and elite. Last year we got second in Novice, beaten only by our instructor who had a perfect weekend. I'm hoping for 1st place in Open this year.

Thursday's class was fun - some distance work and u-turns into the weaves. Also a table, which isn't something we see very much. At one point I put Kit in a start-line stay near the gallery where people sit and watch. They were all laughing at her for the involuntary quivering she does on the start line. 

Sass, I'd try approaching the broad jump faster. You could also try recall over the jump: put the dog in a start line stay far enough away from the jump that they can get a running start, but close enough so that they knew you want them to take it. Go to the other side of the jump, being sure to leave enough room for them to land and keep moving in stride. Release, and call them over (usually two separate commands, such as "ok" "hup"). If you place a tunnel or something after the broad jump, you can run towards it and throw them in there as a reward. This gets them thinking that there's something fun coming after the jump, so they better hurry up and leap over the jump to catch up to you and get their reward. I guess it's a little bit like training recall while you're running in the opposite direction (very fun!) vs. stationary (not so fun).


----------



## Laurelin

Guess who is FINALLY signed back up for agility classes?  

We're starting back on foundation work (this will be foundation course #3 lol) but it can't hurt considering it's been a year since she's really seen equipment.


----------



## And

Belle and I went to our first full USDAA trial this weekend. We were entered in Performance I because I don't want her to jump 12", so I kept her at 8"

Saturday:
1st place and Q in Gamblers with 40 points and a really nice run
NQ in Jumpers (1 knocked bar) but a fast run
1st place and Q in Round 1 of Performance Speed Jumping (The Performance version of Steeplechase) so we made it to the final round on Sunday!

Sunday: NQ in Jumpers (1 knocked bar) but she looked really well during the run, I think my leadout-pivots are causing the problems. I will post a video below. 
1st place and Q'd in Snookers
1st place and Q in Pairs Relay. In addition to my own partner, someone else also needed a partner so I got to run twice! Managed to run clean and get both partners a Q. (Thankfully!!)
Performance Speed Jumping Finals: Only 1 knocked bar but you can have bars down in this event it just adds to your final time. Belle ended up winning Round 2 so we took home a little bit of money! This will be spent on toys/treats this week I am sure! 

Here is our Jumpers run from Sunday. Besides the knocked bar after jump 2 I was very happy with this run:
View My Video

We have no trials planned for at least 2-3 weekends so now more time to train or contacts and jumps.


----------



## Sibe

^Gooooood grief that lil dog is fast! Congrats on all the Q's!!

Laurelin, which dog(s) do you do agility with?


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GLM - Sounds like you guys had an awesome weekend! Congrats 

And - WOW you guys are awesome! Congrats on a good trial!


----------



## Shaina

Hurray Laurelin! Hurray And!


----------



## Laurelin

Sibe said:


> ^Gooooood grief that lil dog is fast! Congrats on all the Q's!!
> 
> Laurelin, which dog(s) do you do agility with?


I did almost 2 years (first 6 months were 'for fun' classes) with Summer. But she's getting old now and so I'm just going to take Mia. Mia really needs to get into agility.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Laurelin said:


> I did almost 2 years (first 6 months were 'for fun' classes) with Summer. But she's getting old now and so I'm just going to take Mia. Mia really needs to get into agility.


Yaayyy!!! Can't wait for updates of her progress


----------



## Shaina

Laurelin said:


> Mia really needs to get into agility.


Yes.

(msg too short)


----------



## Sibe

Good night at agility! We've been having issue with Denali stressing at the weave poles. Before we ran I was warming her up on 6 poles and she was hitting the poles perfectly. No hesitation, charging and driving through them. Everyone ran the first part of the course (no poles), then I took her aside to do the other set of 12 poles at the back of the field and she started stressing. Head down, sniffing around, not liking it (though that set was next to the evil big noisy generator too). Lightbulb moment. I only have 6 poles at home to practice with, she was doing perfect with the 6 not 15 minutes earlier, and it's always 12 at trials where she stresses. It's gotta be the 12 causing issue. Anyway, we did the next part of the course with the poles. It was a tough entry, coming out of a tunnel, then a jump followed by lots of green and a 90* left turn into the poles. She went right in, was doing fine, I was about to celebrate, and with 2 poles to go her head dropped and she started sniffing. I asked the instructor if she'd stopped because I had stopped, but no, she said it was because Denali stressed. Ugh! Instructor told me don't reward, let it go, finish the run. After that run I went back to the poles, lined her up straight, and sent her through. She did it perfectly. I sent her in again from the 90* angle, and again it was perfect. For the next part of the course we were starting at the obstacle after the poles, so I asked to start at the poles instead. I started at the 90* angle and she charged right in and did it beautifully! I rewarded her and finished that part of the course. Next we ran the entire course. We hit the weaves perfectly, she charged into them, was focused, and we had a perfect run. I'm so, so happy!


----------



## And

Thank you all for the comments! Belle is a great dog, and I'm glad she enjoys it! We took a few days off of training this week, going to start tomorrow with some jump grids and contact work.

@Side - glad to hear that you had a "lightbulb" moment with the weaves!! Sounds like you had a good night of agility!


----------



## Laurelin

Shaina said:


> Yes.
> 
> (msg too short)


I keep counting down the days! One week from tomorrow is the first class.


----------



## RaeganW

It's been sooooo long since I've had any classes at all! Marsh and I did two fun days over New Year's Weekend. Marsh was fantastic, I suck. But, he can now weave 12 poles no problem? Even though I had never trained with more than 6? He did it multiple times over two days, so it wasn't just luck. My dog is perfect. 

Tomorrow night I'm taking a friend's spot in her agility class because her dog is in heat. I'm so pumped! This weekend we have another fun day in Sheboygan. Marsh is already entered in his first trial of the year (NADAC at the site we went to last year). My goal is to get one AKC Novice title this year. I have a couple of trials picked out. It comes down to money though.  If I can afford it I really want to go to a Toller supported trial in July and get his working certificate while we're there.


----------



## Shaina

I hope your "borrowed" class is going well, Raegan!

Good luck next week, Laurelin!

I'm going a bit stir-crazy here. Competed ONCE so far this year, right after the new year...Mira earned her AXJ...we had some very nice Team Moments between Mira and I as well as between Kim and I. It was a blast. And then...dead zone. We've trialed twice since November. Not much in the way of practice due to rain and such making outdoor agility hazardous...was closed out of the trial I entered so we have a month before we compete again...and I just found out I'll be traveling for work the week prior to that first-trial-in-months so I'll be gone Sunday, returning late Friday, then heading off to trial Saturday morning and praying Kim has forgiven me for leaving (she gets cranky with me when I'm gone for several days in a row). Argh!


----------



## DJEtzel

Finally started a new agility session last week- an agility skills set class.

Frag did his first 12 weave set on the first night. The instructor didn't know that he had never done 12 before, but we tried anyway and we were both pleasantly surprised.  Going to our first trial this month!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

DJEtzel said:


> Going to our first trial this month!


Fun! What venue?

We're trialing Sunday: 4 open runs (weavers, tunnelers, and 2 regulars), and 2 novice runs (jumpers, chances). Wish us luck!


----------



## DJEtzel

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Fun! What venue?
> 
> We're trialing Sunday: 4 open runs (weavers, tunnelers, and 2 regulars), and 2 novice runs (jumpers, chances). Wish us luck!


CPE. We're not set on weaves well enough yet to try AKC, and I know we'll both have way too many nerves to try out something more "strict" right away. CPE seems more laid back for us to get started. Good luck on sunday!


----------



## Laurelin

Today is the day. 

I'm still sick (sinus infection). Do you think it's a bad idea to go? I feel fine but sound like crud. Not contagious obviously.


----------



## Sibe

You should go! We have a girl in our class who sounded like death for about a month, battling bronchitis and whooping cough. They still did great, she just sounded awful.


----------



## And

@DJ good luck with CPE. I really enjoy running in CPE trials. Always have a nice group of people.

@Laurelin if you feel okay to go, I would go! Last year I was at a UKI trial and was sick with a sinus infection, pinkeye, a cold, and then later got the flu and pneumonia.. The things we do for agility.. haha

Speaking of being sick.. Belle has had some sort of flare-up with allergies it seems. Sneezing/Lethargic for the past few days. Took her to the vet and they prescribed Flonase along with her allergy meds so I will be trying that.. We tried playing ball yesterday since it was so nice here but she had a few sneezing episodes and seemed to get short of breathe really quick.. Let's hope that rest and the Flonase does the trick..

Good luck to anyone trialing this weekend!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

And another perfect day on the books: 6 runs and 6 Q's, all 1st places. Have I mentioned lately that I love this dog?

When I put Kit in her start-line stay for our last run, I started to remove the leash and the judge says "oh, my favorite dog!", staring right at Kit. Kit proceeds to stare right back at her, tail thumping the ground, whining that she would love to break her stay and go plant a great big kiss right on her face. I told her to leave it and she contained herself. Impulse control - it saves Q's.


----------



## Sibe

GottaLuvMutts said:


> And another perfect day on the books: 6 runs and 6 Q's, all 1st places. Have I mentioned lately that I love this dog?


Congrats!!!! That is awesome!!


----------



## Shaina

Congrats Team Kit!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY! Go Kit!!!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Just got home from our two day trial. Remmy had a rough start when a Fox Terrier came running out of the ring and attacked him when he was sitting beside me. It grabbed him a couple of times before I could fend it off with my foot. Luckily it did not break the skin, just left some red spots on him. He got zoomies in both his classes on Saturday and on Sunday he finally settled down in his last class, a Masters Jumpers and had a clean round but may have not been fast enough, thanks to me.

Kiska, who I had almost quit with last fall as she did not seem to enjoy it, suddenly woke up. She Q'd in three of her four classes and got two firsts and a second. The classes were Starters Gambler, Snooker and Jumper. I had only competed in a few Jumpers with her until this trial so it was a real surprise how well she did. We only had three practices before the trial.

Starting this Thursday we will be able to practice once a week for at least the next six weeks as they are starting classes. When I say classes, they really aren't as we don't have any instructor, just use the equipment.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Kyllobernese said:


> Just got home from our two day trial. Remmy had a rough start when a Fox Terrier came running out of the ring and attacked him when he was sitting beside me. It grabbed him a couple of times before I could fend it off with my foot. Luckily it did not break the skin, just left some red spots on him. He got zoomies in both his classes on Saturday and on Sunday he finally settled down in his last class, a Masters Jumpers and had a clean round but may have not been fast enough, thanks to me.
> 
> Kiska, who I had almost quit with last fall as she did not seem to enjoy it, suddenly woke up. She Q'd in three of her four classes and got two firsts and a second. The classes were Starters Gambler, Snooker and Jumper. I had only competed in a few Jumpers with her until this trial so it was a real surprise how well she did. We only had three practices before the trial.
> 
> Starting this Thursday we will be able to practice once a week for at least the next six weeks as they are starting classes. When I say classes, they really aren't as we don't have any instructor, just use the equipment.


Oh man, I always hate to see scuffles in the ring at agility trials. Unfortunately, I've witnessed 3 during my short time in the sport. No one was injured, but all three resulted in dismissals, two of which were permanent. Did the fox terrier who attacked Remmy earn a dismissal? Glad Remmy was ok!

This weekend I'm volunteering at a USDAA trial in town. I'm not competing (not my venue), but I'm running a raffle, helping build courses, and doing whatever odd jobs need doing. The trial is within biking distance of home, and since I'm not running a dog, I can just go back and forth as needed, without wasting gas. Best of all, I get a free entry to be used at a future trial hosted by the club. I'm very much looking forward to watching USDAA Brace: for those who've never seen it, two dogs run a course simultaneously with one handler. I plan to record it - I'll try to post the video.


----------



## Miki the aussie owner

what a pretty aussie!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Went to our Obedience/Agility training club on Thursday. My sister and I practiced with our dogs on the Agility equipment while the Obedience was going on, then stayed to help. There was a Border Collie pup there and I asked how old it was. It was only FOUR months old. I said they should not be doing Agility with it yet and told them why. They said that it was a smart pup and had been told they could do the Agility with it. Some people just won't listen and think they know best. It had already been in the Obedience class which was plenty for a pup of that age.


----------



## Sibe

Doing agility as in actually having it go over jumps and such? I would definitely say something to them too.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Yeah, 4mo is way too young. Kit didn't have the impulse control necessary for much of anything until ~18mo or so. Of course the potential for physical harm is bad, too. There's a dog currently in my agility class (not Kit's, but the one that I've been attending with the Aussie I'm running) who has no business being there, IMO. She is a great dog and definitely has potential, but she and her green handler have only been doing agility for like 1-2mo and will be trialing already this weekend. I just think she's progressing WAY too fast and the poor dog is probably overwhelmed. It takes time and patience to build the skill set necessary to be successful, and people are very impatient.

The USDAA trial I attended, but didn't run in, went well this weekend. I worked all weekend and earned worker's coupons, which I turned in for raffle tickets. I ended up winning a big bag of good dog food (not my brand, but Kit eats anything) and a nice 4' leather leash. All in all, a good weekend. Brace was fun to watch, but there were only 4 teams, so not too exciting. I haven't downloaded the video yet.

This is going to be a busy week for us agility-wise: Thursday night class with both dogs, a demo thingy on Friday, and trialing all weekend. The demo is at a women's youth correctional facility (in other words, a "jail"), and 60 girls will get to run ~10 or so dogs thru a simple course. Should be fun...I expect that the girls will love Kit as much as she loves them - she's a bit of a delinquent herself ;-)


----------



## DJEtzel

That jail thing sounds fun! I hope you and Kit (and the girls!) have a good time. I know that kind of stuff can be SO beneficial to them. 

Roommate got a Border Collie for performance events and I've been training her. She started on the wobble board today and we started doing some rear end awareness on a box.


----------



## Sibe

Had a good class tonight. Denali is showing no hesitation on the weaves. I ran them twice right before class started and she blasted through them just like she used to, fast and confident. When running the course she hit them perfectly every time and it was a tough 90* entrance. I think we've fixed the issue of her stressing and dropping her head to smell around.

But now she's having teeter issues. She's NEVER had teeter issues except when she was first learning almost a year and a half ago. She ran it twice just fine tonight. Then she wouldn't do it. She ran halfway up and jumped off. I sent her up again, staying next to her, and she jumped off again halfway. Instructor came over and I had Denali sit and wait at the end and watch me put treats on the end of the teeter. I walked back to her and released her, and she went up until all 4 paws were on then jumped off again. There were no shadows crossing it, no lights shining right in her face, no reason we could find why she wouldn't do it. Instructor had the end down so I could reward the end behavior to at least have a chance for positive reinforcement. Next week there will be a teeter on the field but not as part of the course so we can work on it. I couldn't tell if there was something environmental stopping her or if was more mental. None of the other dogs were having issue so I'm pretty sure it was mental. I don't think she'd slipped tonight. The grass was a little wet and the contact obstacles were starting to get wet, and she did have one paw slip off on the dogwalk but she finished that just fine and didn't have issue on the DW after. I dunno...


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Trialed today. Kit was so exhausted from yesterday's demo (see above for an explanation) that things were a little slow. She didn't really enjoy the jumpers run, and the weaves were quite a bit slower than I'm used to. When I went to get her out of the crate for tunnelers, she was sprawled out fast asleep. She opened an eye and groaned when she saw me. We ended up with 4 Q's out of 6 runs for the day, and neither of the NQ's were time faults, so I guess she wasn't TOO slow. 3 of the 4 Q's were titles (open weavers, open regular, and finally finally got our novice jumpers superior). We've got 6 more runs tomorrow, so I put her to bed as soon as we got home this afternoon. I'm sure she'll be happy for a break come Monday.

ETA: Interesting day today. Much peppier than yesterday, which was good. Started with a really nice TNG run w/ Q. Then two regulars, neither of which ended with a Q - one was an off course at a discrimination (my fault - I was late) and the other was a freak accident which could have ended badly. More on that in a sec. Then we had the most gorgeous chances run I've ever had - I was brimming with pride. More on that below, too. Then jumpers and hoopers, both w/ Qs. 

The accident: We'd done the whole course without a fault, but Kit fell off the dog walk. Not jumped, fell. She looked up to check out the judge and lost her footing. The good news is she came down on all 4's and then immediately went to greet the judge. I put her back on the dog walk, which she took happily, and we finished the run. It cost us, though - an E. 

The chances run: I walked the course and thought "I don't have a prayer - this is WAY beyond us". For those who don't do NADAC, the chances class includes flagging tape on the ground, and you can't cross it without getting faulted. The course started with a discrimination: two straight tunnels side by side, and you have to take the outer one. Then a call off the jump straight ahead, turn the dog 90 degrees to the left toward the handler. That led into a pin wheel of jumps, so you had to turn the dog away from you. One you had completed the full pinwheel (4 jumps in a perfect circle) and called the dog off the initial tunnels, then back over the second jump, out to a couple of hoops, and then a dog walk, hoop. Anyway, the whole thing went off without a hitch. I was surprised that she took the out tunnel (given how far away the line was), then surprised she took my call off, happy about the turn away (she's good at that), shocked that we got the out jump (the distance felt like an ocean for us, but it was probably like 12'), and then the second call off (especially a tunnel!), plus that redirect over the jumps. It was like all of our weaknesses combined into one nasty course. But she did it flawlessly! I think the pinwheel actually might have worked in our favor: because of the turn away, she couldn't see me as she was running toward the out jump. By the time she realized how far away she'd gotten, she had already done it.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

WOW! I'm glad Kit is OK! Sounds like a crazy weekend after a crazy week. Congrats on the Qs and on the awesome chances run!

FINALLY had a good night! Our instructors were really complimentary and said that we should be in the higher-level classes (which was cool to hear!), but that they need to move some people around first. This current session doesn't end for another few weeks, so we will be in this class for at least that much longer. I'm anxious to compete (some people in our class do compete already), but I just don't think we're quite where I want to be yet... Hopefully by summer 

Weaves (a bit slower than I like):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nHcGhUVhFA

Teeter (she used to be terrified of it but she did it 3 times tonight with no issues!):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUIzKu5UUJs

Another case of fast dog, slow handler:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CRdRa1zDJ0

More fast dog:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PWDz6MdtgY

We're getting there, I think!!!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Nice videos! Crosses are tough with running contacts. If I cross in a 2o2o position, though, Kit gets super annoyed and starts air snapping from impatience. 

What are the longest sequences you're doing in class now? What really got me ready to trial was moving up to a more advanced class that did course-length sequences on a regular basis.


----------



## DJEtzel

It's fun to see where different people train and what they're working on. 

Last night in class we working on obstacle discrimination, higher jump heights, and blind crosses. I have to say that I'm in LOVE with blind crosses and will definitely use them in the future. It was a fun, open course set up with a lot of challenges, and TONS of opportunities for front/rear/blind crosses, which I loved. We worked obstacle discrimination mostly between dog walk and a tunnel at the bottom. No weaves, tire, or a frame in this course. Lots of jumps, tunnels, the dog walk and teeter. Frag's doing so much better at the teeter & dog walk- during our animal communicator session he made a comment about being afraid of the teeter, which he has been because he has fallen off (silly puppy!), and the communicator reassured him- since then he's been flying over the teeter without me close by. I love it!  

Definitely need to get some videos taken. I'm the videographer for my trainer, so I never get videos of myself.  Our last class is next week, I'll have to get Jon to come and tape it.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Nice videos! Crosses are tough with running contacts. If I cross in a 2o2o position, though, Kit gets super annoyed and starts air snapping from impatience.
> 
> What are the longest sequences you're doing in class now? What really got me ready to trial was moving up to a more advanced class that did course-length sequences on a regular basis.


The longest we have done were like 6-7 obstacles. So no full courses yet. The next class up does full courses, I believe (it's considered pre-novice), and then the one after that is considered competition novice (where they expect you to begin competing). So we have at least 3 months before we would even be considered for competition novice (1 month of this session + 2 months of the pre-novice). But I agree with what you're saying - I definitely don't want to attempt a full course at a trial until we've done quite a few in class  - I just can't believe people are already competing from my class!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Finkie_Mom said:


> I just can't believe people are already competing from my class!


From what I've observed, there's a HUGE disparity in level at first competition between different handlers, different classes, etc. We were in classes for just over a year before we started trialing. I think we started trialing at a good time for us - Kit had mastered weave polls and had done plenty of full-length courses. Her first run in a trial (weavers, of all things!) was perfect with a big fat Q - I was so proud. I could have trialed earlier, especially because she isn't sensitive about environment, crowds, other dogs, etc., but I am competitive enough (and also cheap enough) that I wouldn't have been happy if our Q rate was really low. And of course the dog picks up on it if you're unhappy, which I didn't want. 

On the flip side, though, I know someone who will be trialing very soon, after only 2mo of training. Personally, I don't feel that the dog is ready, but I guess we'll see how it goes.

In general, I think that experienced handlers tend to trial their dogs sooner than novice handlers (sometimes even before they've mastered weaves!), but they're also happier to accept whatever they get from their newbie dogs.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> From what I've observed, there's a HUGE disparity in level at first competition between different handlers, different classes, etc. We were in classes for just over a year before we started trialing. I think we started trialing at a good time for us - Kit had mastered weave polls and had done plenty of full-length courses. Her first run in a trial (weavers, of all things!) was perfect with a big fat Q - I was so proud. I could have trialed earlier, especially because she isn't sensitive about environment, crowds, other dogs, etc., but I am competitive enough (and also cheap enough) that I wouldn't have been happy if our Q rate was really low. And of course the dog picks up on it if you're unhappy, which I didn't want.
> 
> On the flip side, though, I know someone who will be trialing very soon, after only 2mo of training. Personally, I don't feel that the dog is ready, but I guess we'll see how it goes.
> 
> In general, I think that experienced handlers tend to trial their dogs sooner than novice handlers (sometimes even before they've mastered weaves!), but they're also happier to accept whatever they get from their newbie dogs.


Hahaha you sound like me... We've been training for about a year total at this point (we took lots of time off for recall work and also when we moved). I will take my time for sure (she's super sensitive to me and my mood and picks up in a heartbeat if I'm not happy) and only compete when I feel we are ready. I don't have the money to put out there for her to just like zoom around the ring LOL.


----------



## Sibe

I trained for about 9 months before my first trial. The maturity was nowhere to be found as she decided investigating and zoomies were more fun. She'd only been running on grass for a couple months and it was a completely new place. First trial was bad, but I was truly just happy to be trialing and getting into it more. Denali wasn't even a year and a half old. I honestly didn't know to not start her so young. The first few months is all ground work and learning the obstacles anyway but if I'd known I would have waited. Regardless, we took it easy and still do. Haven't even trialed since January as we've been working out the confidence issue on the weaves. Next trial is in May and we're signed up, I'm excited!


----------



## Kyllobernese

In AAC you can't trial till the dog is 18 months old which I think is a good rule. I did not start trialing Remmy till he was 18 months and Kiska, I did start trialing her with not too much training (she was three years old) but I started her in Agility more to get her more confident around people and it really helped her. This year at her first trial she Q'd in Gamblers, Snooker and Jumpers with two firsts and a second.

I will have to start her on weave poles this year as I have not done them with her very much as she seemed to really stress out with them and I wanted her to have fun and she loved all the other equipment.


----------



## MrsBoats

Lars was my first agility dog and I started agility foundation with him when he about 6 months...and we didn't trial until he was almost 3. He wasn't the easiest of dogs to learn on and I definitely had my work cut out for me with him and his drive. I did play in a lot of other things with him while we were developing our agility team. 

Now, I have a pup and I'm starting foundation agility stuff with him now at 5 months old. Lars has taught me TONS which I will and will not do with Ocean. I do NADAC and AKC agility and in NADAC a dog has to be 18 months old to participate and AKC, it's 15 months. I doubt that I will bring Ocean out in AKC at that age even in preferred because of growth plates and that sort of stuff. But, I do plan on trying our hands at the ground games in NADAC like tunnelers, weavers, and touch and go with Ocean when he's 18 months.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Long time, no post!  Hope everyone is having fun on their agility adventures  We've been having a blast, I think we are finally back to 100% after her back injury. A couple weeks ago she did have a little relapse, but I think that was more with how she slept and she was over it by the next day. Here are a few videos from last night..






We're up to 12 poles now! She still has to build some more muscle memory and learn her rhythm, but she definitely loves the weaves!





Ignoring her bolt in the first part, this was a tough sequence to do. We (more like I) messed up on the very last jump.. if I would have given just ONE more step she would have got it, but I pulled away. Anyways, why was it tough? My agility instructor told us after we completed it that it was the course for the England Agility National Championship. Wow!





(personally I think she was just doing that to show us what we and our dogs are capable of... meaning she wants us to compete because Novice would be so easy for them. I'm still not sure if we're (I'm) ready though).


----------



## Sibe

nikki those were great! Don't be pressured to compete. If you don't feel ready, don't do it. I think the mental prep is just as important as knowing the moves.


Denali and I had another fantastic class tonight. She's showing no hesitation on the weaves, and whatever her issue was with the teeter a couple weeks ago is history as she's conquering that just fine too. I put the papers in the mail today for two trials in May. We're only going to compete on Saturday both trials. We're ready to get back to trialing! We will have taken off 3 months of trialing by that time.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

You guys look awesome, nikki!!! Harleigh really seems to love it 

It's officially spring! There are birds living in the barn that we train in and therefore there are also bird eggs! So it proved to be a distraction to most of the dogs, and especially to Kimma. But she still did some OK stuff. 

I put these together because I did different things wrong each time LOL.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSpC8mprBMM

She did both of these runs just fine, but you can see her head going towards the ground a bit the second time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPJOIFo5pVU

Aaaand I was asked why we aren't competing yet LOL. I have been thinking about it for the past day or so, and I think that I will set a goal time frame and stick to it. If we waited for ME to be ready, we would never do it haha. I get SOOO nervous! Even at class I get nervous sometimes! But at least this way I can see where we stand and it would give us more to work on. And by summer we should be up a class or two (I'm going to aim for July, as there is a local AKC trial then, I think). Ugh. Time to get a bit serious, I suppose!!!


----------



## Sibe

Second vid, that was awesome going tunnel -> weaves -> wrap -> weaves. Tunnel to weaves like that can be really tough; tunnels are so fun and the dogs build up speed, and then a straight-on entrance to the weaves in itself can be tough. Her weaves look great!


----------



## DJEtzel

Well, here's the only video that I got from our last agility class for a while... Frag's going in for radiographs and may not be living with me anymore, so I'm not sure if I'll get to do more with him or not. I brought my roommate along to record... but she only recorded our cool-down sequence at the end, lol. Oh well, still figured I'd share.. 7 jumps & a tire at 12", plus a rear cross that Frag loves because we've been working hard on rear crosses from the right... he always had a problem with them & would only follow a rear cross if I was on his left for the longest time.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/4otgHY_18v4

I also happened to come across these two videos on my youtube account that I had forgotten about from last summer, so I figured I'd share them just for fun. They are from our beginning agility class. 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/D964nkgNtqA

http://www.youtube.com/embed/TEeChk_BOZY

I'm gonna miss Agility with Frag if we cannot do it again. :'(


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Good class this week: we tried gamblers for the first (and second) time. Since I do NADAC, I needed an explanation of what gamblers involved. I can't say my strategy was great, but it was fun. 

The topic of NADAC champs (in Utah in Oct) came up in class and we discussed requirements to qualify. I looked up details when I got home and came to the conclusion that I would need to earn the following Q's between now and August in order to qualify:
2 Open Jumpers Q's - No problem! We'd have these already except that we just got to Open in this class. I could conceivably earn these next weekend.
6 Open Regular Q's - Also no problem. Our Q rate in regular is very high. I could conceivably have 4 of these next weekend.
2 Open Chances Q's - Big problem! Our Q rate in chances is quite low, and I want to finish our Novice Superior (4 more Q's) before moving up to Open. 6 Chances Q's in 4 months is a stretch, I think. But maybe just doable???

If I qualified, I'd entertain the notion of going, depending on my work schedule. What a thrill that would be! A girl can dream, I guess.

I think I'm taking this weekend off agility. We can work on nosework, maybe go for a hike, and I have a lot of real work to get done, too. We trial next weekend and the following weekend.

ETA: It's been a long time since I posted videos. Here are two that I think you'll like.

A touch and go run at a trial recently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VwVjDa1z30
The strange noises that come out of Kit when we pull into the agility barn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvJIpyavm44


----------



## And

Belle and I ran at a UKI trial over the weekend. We would have Q'd in every run; however, we are back to knocking 1 bar during every run.. And in any level of UKI you need to run clean so it was a lot of "almost Q" runs this weekend.

However, we did run in the "Masters Series Qualifier" It was a Jumpers and Agility course designed by Laura Derrett and if you placed 1st or 2nd (combined scores) in your height category you qualified for the Finals which is held at the UKI US Open. Belle ran 2 very nice runs and we placed 1st in both, so we qualified for the event in California! Both of my instructors qualified as well! Not sure if I will make the trip from Wisconsin to California, but I have been thinking about it. 

No trials for at least 2-3 weeks so more training for us until then.


----------



## Shaina

GottaLuvMutts -- Good luck getting all the Qs you need to qualify!

And -- Congrats on qualifying!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Love that pic, And! You should totally go to the trial in Cali! Belle is small enough to pass as carry on luggage, right?

We were 11/12 Q's this weekend. I love, love, love how consistent we're becoming!!! We nail our start line stays, our contacts, our weaves (though they're still a little slow for my tastes), our discriminations, we never drop bars, and distraction/displacement sniffing is a thing of the past. Below is a video of a regular run (the judge says "elite" at the beginning, but it's actually open). We earned both of the jumpers Q's we needed to qualify for champs, along with 4 of the 6 regulars we needed, plus one of the chances we needed. So to qualify, I would still need...

2 Regulars (in open) - very doable.
5 Chances (3 in novice and 2 in open) - not very doable!

We got yesterday's chances run, but missed today's. While walking the course, I was thinking of handling the opening sequence two different ways, and I chose wrong. I was mad at myself (and maybe just a tiny bit at Kit) cause it was a pretty easy one. She got her treats, though, so she had no idea that I wasn't happy. Even with the mess up, the judge was wavering on how to call it, cause we weren't 100% sure about whether Kit had crossed the line or not. Alas, it wasn't called in my favor, but even if it had been, it would have been awfully dirty.

Next weekend we have a games trial: 4 runs each in TNG, tunnelers, and weavers. We should be getting close to elite in those classes after that trial.

Here's the regular run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8wBPMkqLyQ


----------



## trainingjunkie

Went to an AKC trial this weekend and earned my way into Excellent Standard! And got two Open JWW legs!

And best of all, my fearful little female was bold, fearless, and fast in her two novice runs! Looks like she will get to continue in agility after all!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

And - Congrats on qualifying!!! You have to let us know if you decide to go! LOVE that picture of Belle - a framer for sure!

GLM - Another nice weekend! I hope you can qualify for the Championships!!!!! I love watching Kit work - thanks for posting the video 

trainingjunkie - That's great! You must be over the moon


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Kimma was a BRAT last week (4/11). She was all over the place. So we worked recall A LOT over the week following that class, and she was pretty good last Wednesday (4/18). I think we are going to hold off on trialing for a while, as I know that she will become ring-wise REAL QUICK. I'm aiming for fall now. 

We are, however, moving up to the next class next session (starts middle of May) so that's exciting! They do more full courses, which I think will be good for us. 

I didn't get any clips from her bad week (my friend couldn't come with to tape me), but here are a few from last Wednesday 

I need to work on her automatic down on the table...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp1h1RvQ3p0

Her weaves are a bit slower than usual here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYntNK0sVF4

And here is some payoff for our recall work!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBeKobrxnfU


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Moving up a class will definitely help, Finkie. I couldn't wait to do that, cause it's so much better to be at the bottom of your class than at the top!

Speaking of being at the top...
Kit was 10 for 12 this weekend. That earned us the "Willamette Cup", which is a big award in our agility club. It was a very full trial (judge remarked one of the biggest she's ever judged), and at the end they award 9 Willamette Cups to the dogs with the most Q's for the weekend in novice, open, and elite. We got a huge ribbon and a very nice trophy/picture frame thingy. Pics to come soon. Love my little girl!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations! What a great weekend!


----------



## Sibe

Good job Kimma and Kit!! I can't wait to see pics of Kit


----------



## trainingjunkie

At the risk of embarrassing myself, here is a video of my dog on a JWW course. (open akc) We have struggled getting Q's due to handler impairment...


----------



## Sibe

trainingjunkie said:


> At the risk of embarrassing myself, here is a video of my dog on a JWW course. (open akc) We have struggled getting Q's due to handler impairment...


That was great! A jump into straight-on weaves is a tough starting sequence. At one trial we had a freakin' PANEL JUMP as the first obstacle then directly into the weaves. The dogs couldn't see a darned thing so most didn't gather themselves in time and missed the entrance.


----------



## trainingjunkie

It was a bummer that I didn't add a front cross to the closing. That caused the refusal on the last jump. You can't really see the angles in the video, but I should have handled the ending differently. It was still a Q! A better, faster handler would have gotten my dog out of open a long time ago! 

I imagine we would have really struggled if that first jump had been a panel!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

OK so Kimma was a bit of a brat (well, actually a huge brat) at class, BUT she had SO MUCH FUN and had no fear of the Teeter and no issues with her running contacts! So I will take it. She also came right back when called if she got off track, which is much better than her old habit of completely blowing me off LOL.

This sequence was just plain pretty good:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcXWwsxHTQw

Weaves were open (we're the only ones that do straight poles all of the time so it's annoying to close them just for us - it's not so bad, but I can't wait for next class when they are closed always) but she did good:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFbiRXt1K2Q

No Teeter fear! But I screwed up at the end of the Frame which is why she went on to the Dog Walk LOL. But she got right back in to it!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=65CVBeM1KwQ

This one is just funny because she was like, "Chute? What's that???" And you hear everyone go "Ohhhhhh!!!" in unison hahaha. I love my class - we are always rooting for each other and everyone is just so nice 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lUV25j-38s

Looking for some fun matches in the area to try out during the summer with the hopes of entering our first AKC trial in the early fall


----------



## Shaina

Everyone's coming along so nicely in their training! Love to see all the progress!

We had a fun weekend in agility -- it was a bit of a smaller trial with 15-18 dogs in our class. Kim took blue in Standard to finish her MX title (10 Qs in Excellent B Standard). Mira is all in B now too and had a great run as well but we're still feeling one another out and handling two different dogs is a bit of a challenge...an extra step by me sent miss Mira to an OC obstacle which is an NQ. Oops! Otherwise a lovely run and nice time. 

In JWW Mira cleaned up and took blue with a nice time for points and what is I think her second MXJ leg. That left Kim, who also ran cleanly, with third place...which means she earned another QQ toward her MACH. Go girlie go!

Looking forward in our next trial sometime late next month!

(cell pic, sorry for the quality!)


----------



## trainingjunkie

Huge congratulations! You guys are rock stars!

Good luck in the pursuit of the MACH! I am so jealous!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Congrats, Shaina!

After too many weekends of trialing, I decided to take this weekend off. Class this week went well, though - we had some very tough weave entries (flip the dog 180 into the weaves???) and a couple of nice AKC-style courses. Nothing I'll see in a real trial, of course, but I love that the courses we see in class are tougher than what we see in trial - makes trial courses feel easy!


----------



## Sibe

Last Tuesday was an interesting class. There's no way I could try to describe this, so I drew a quick crappy sketch. Our instructor said she likes giving us things we'll probably never see in competition. That way we're less surprised or unsure when the weird things do show up in competitions.

Red is jumps.
Blue is weaves.
Orange is tunnel.

The black dot is where I started. Each purple dot is where I did a front cross. The green line is the dog's path. It worked very well! If you notice, between 2 and 3 you're going NOWHERE. The dogs are like "uh... what?"









On the actual course there were two jumps in a straight line before the #1 jump on my little drawing, and in front of the tunnel was another straight tunnel.


----------



## Shaina

Don't be so sure you won't see that in competition  I've seen similar weave entries though not often...and while threadles still aren't really used in AKC jump wraps are getting more and more popular...threadles may well be next as I've seen several judges kind of sneak in quasi-threadles like this 

Congrats on handling it well!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

The long-awaited pic of me, Kit, and our fabulous agility instructors. This was taken two weekends ago when we won the Willamette Cup, the big annual award from my agility club.










I'm really surprised Kit doesn't look more deranged: the photographer had a squeaky ball and french fries and Kit was vibrating with anticipation for both.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY!!! Congrats, Shaina!!!!

Awwwww what an awesome picture, GLM! Congrats again (if I didn't say so already!)

So I haven't had anyone to come to class with me for a while, which is why I don't have any new videos. I also am in the midst of moving, which is why I can't take any of training sessions LOL. I will have to get on that again soon 

Anyway, just wanted to update this with a bit of awesome news! We have been "promoted" up past a class, and will start up in an official Novice competition class for the next session! I'm bummed that we won't have the same trainers anymore (we will be on a different night altogether now), but I'm excited that they think we're improving enough to let us skip a level.

We are also going to do a Show 'n Go on May 20, so that should be... Interesting... Hoping I can break out some of my equipment and practice a bit beforehand... It should be a good experience nevertheless! Hopefully I will be able to get someone to take some video for me then - even if it ends up poorly it will probably be super useful to see.


----------



## Sibe

Kit does look VERY focused haha!

Today was trial day, a mix of awesome and weird and bad. The bad was Denali refusing to be measured. She's over 2 years old now so needs her permanent jump height card. The measuring official just so happened to be an AKC rep. Denali has some skittishness issues, particularly with men, but this was ridiculous. I haven't seen her so bad about strangers in a loooong time as it's something I work very hard on. The guy was wearing a hat and sunglasses, someone's sunshade on their popup was blowing toward her face, dogs were barking, and she just freaked out. Treats weren't helping at all. The rep had us move onto the sidewalk since Denali was backing off the table. We couldn't get her to stand still. He told me no big deal, it's ok as long as she is measured before the end of the day, and I should practice with her. He left and I had her walk back and forth, luring her and giving her lots of praise and treats. She got to where she would walk calmly under it so I then had her walk slower and slower, then stopping for a second, and working up to having her stop for about 5-10 seconds. After our Standard run we relaxed as all the little dogs had to do JWW and Standard (they ran tall to small today). I practiced with her again. Then I had the rep come over again and try. It took her a few minutes but she finally settled down and got measured. After all that, she was exactly the height she was before- 21 1/4".

First up, Excellent Standard. She was slow slow slow, but having been recently sketched out by the rep and that whole fiasco it doesn't surprise me. Off the A-frame we go into a pinwheel and she stopped to look at the judge for a second before remembering that she was doing agility haha. She hit her weaves perfect, woohoo! Then the bit with the 180 was sloppy. I tried to front cross but she ran behind. Managed to squeak in the jump anyway. She found her speed on the dogwalk at the end. We Q'd and got 1st place as she was the only only of the 4 dogs in her specific class to Q. She got 3 points off for time.




link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2tJProCLiQ

JWW I felt really good about. Some tight turns but we've been practicing wraps a lot in class. My biggest concern was the weaves. She did get the entry, woohoo! but then skipped a pole because of the angle she was at. I got too far ahead of her before the rear cross at the jump before the weaves which didn't leave me room or time to get in front of the jump to push her out more. Then more bad. She fell on her landing over the triple. It felt like I was completely stopped for a couple seconds as I asked her if she was ok, but the video shows I kept moving. I moved out to far, so when I front crossed I sent her over the wrong jump. She was supposed to take the double. I hadn't even been concerned about doing that; I hadn't even noticed that jump was so close tbh. Still no Q's in Open JWW.




link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srWewVD57oU

Oh, and feel free to LAUGH at my AWESOME farmer's tan!! lol


----------



## trainingjunkie

Looked Great! Open JWW is a bear. What a beautiful day for a trial! 

It was fun to see the videos! Thank you so much for posting!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Good news: one more chances Q in the books. Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th98anRHYT8
4 more to go to qualify for champs!

Bad news: Kit's weaves have absolutely fallen apart. BUT! I know why: I'm staring her down and she gets softer and softer with every poll until she's too nervous and pops out (always away from me rather than towards me, and usually near the end, rather than at the beginning). I need to give her space and look in front of her, not at her. I should have figured this out sooner; she's always been pretty sensitive about her space bubble. Step into it and she'll go around an obstacle that's right in front of her. I also want to go back and work on targeting a food bowl placed at the end of the weaves, rather than getting rewards from me directly (which has led to too much concentration on me). I'm mad at myself for being a terrible handler and freaking her out!


----------



## Sibe

Open JWW is still kicking our butt. No Q again! She refused the triple. She hasn't done a triple since crashing at the last trial so I'm wondering if that was her issue with it. We'll find out our next class in a couple weeks, I'll make sure to get a triple set up. Anyway she refused this time so I lined her back up, and she refused again so we just continued. She'd started smelling around (stressing, and I didn't want her to pee) and I'm not a fan of skipping an obstacle and allowing the dog to say "nope! not gonna do it!" but I didn't want to make it worse or let her pee. It was hot today so she'd been drinking a lot of water. Apart from that refusal it was a flawless run. Not as in tune as our first run in Standard..

Her Exc Standard run was BEAUTIFUL. It was a very open course where the dog was always seeing many obstacles in its path. Inviting tunnels and well-rewarded contacts at every tun! But she stayed on course, hit all her contacts, didn't knock any bars, had a *perfect* wrap, she was with me and focused and fast. She was understanding exactly what I was asking, we so in tune! But there was a bug that flew up in her face at the panel jump. Even _*I*_ could see the bug it was so big. Her head shot up and followed the bug around the jump instead of over it. Whoops! So she had a refusal on that. I really wish we got this run on camera but the memory stick wasn't in right. Next trial isn't until mid-June, with lots of time off in between. We'll only have 3 classes between now and then. I like taking it easy though.


----------



## hamandeggs

OK, newbie here! I posted a couple weeks ago about how we had signed Biscuit up for agility. We had our first with-dogs class last night (there was also a no-dog session before that) and it was AWESOME! We're officially addicted and it's only been one session. But it really is fun, and I could tell Biscuit was having a blast! We got lucky with a course-registration snafu and there are only 2 dogs in our class, Biscuit and a border collie named Cody, so we got a ton of one-on-one attention, and the trainer and assistants are really great. It's all clicker-training, shaping, targeting, which is great for Biscuit. 

Biscuit can be sensitive and tentative, and is generally a VERY mellow dog, so it was really cool to watch her get brave and turn on the drive. That's a side of her we rarely see, and it was cool to encourage it to come out. We did some basic obedience-type stuff ("go to mat," handling/positioning, and targeting), but we did some equipment things too: open and closed tunnels, wobble board, and A-frame. Biscuit is really fast! I'll try to get pictures next time. 

You know, usually when Biscuit is driving for something, it's an old chicken bone in the gutter and we're trying to keep her from getting to it. It is really cool to harness that drive for something positive! She came home happy and exhausted, and I can already tell she's feeling more confident: last night, for the first time ever, she nosed our bedroom door open all by herself. Baby steps, but very cool to see.

So much fun! Can't wait for more!


----------



## dagwall

Haha I was just wondering about how you and Biscuit were doing in your agility class, glad I saw this post. We really enjoyed our Agility I class at Woofs I knew you and Biscuit would have fun too.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

hamandeggs said:


> OK, newbie here! I posted a couple weeks ago about how we had signed Biscuit up for agility. We had our first with-dogs class last night (there was also a no-dog session before that) and it was AWESOME! We're officially addicted and it's only been one session. But it really is fun, and I could tell Biscuit was having a blast! We got lucky with a course-registration snafu and there are only 2 dogs in our class, Biscuit and a border collie named Cody, so we got a ton of one-on-one attention, and the trainer and assistants are really great. It's all clicker-training, shaping, targeting, which is great for Biscuit.
> 
> Biscuit can be sensitive and tentative, and is generally a VERY mellow dog, so it was really cool to watch her get brave and turn on the drive. That's a side of her we rarely see, and it was cool to encourage it to come out. We did some basic obedience-type stuff ("go to mat," handling/positioning, and targeting), but we did some equipment things too: open and closed tunnels, wobble board, and A-frame. Biscuit is really fast! I'll try to get pictures next time.
> 
> You know, usually when Biscuit is driving for something, it's an old chicken bone in the gutter and we're trying to keep her from getting to it. It is really cool to harness that drive for something positive! She came home happy and exhausted, and I can already tell she's feeling more confident: last night, for the first time ever, she nosed our bedroom door open all by herself. Baby steps, but very cool to see.
> 
> So much fun! Can't wait for more!


Glad you both liked it so much, and welcome to our thread! I love watching dogs bloom by doing agility. Many shy dogs will come out of their shell. I distinctly remember a very shy Aussie who started agility class with us way back when. He acted like he was totally uninterested/shut down, but after a few weeks, he was really getting into it. I still know him now, and he's quite the different dog.

Kit never had a confidence problem, but agility really helped sharpen her focus. Recently I was at an agility demo with her and a small crowd was watching us perform contacts and such. Thinking about how this must look from the crowd's perspective made me realize how far we've come from that wild puppy who was too much for any normal person to handle. Doing agility helped me tame the beast and gave me a very good reason to work on control.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Yay! We were 5 for 6 today, and one of those Q's was a chances Q! So we're down to needing one more novice chances Q plus two more in open to qualify for champs! We've got a shot at the novice one first thing tomorrow.


----------



## Sibe

Woohoo!!!! Awesome day. Good luck in the morning!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Woot! We got our chances Q today, earning us our Novice Superior Versatility title! Two more to qualify for champs!!!

The rest of the day went well, too: 6 for 6 for the day!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAAAYYY!!! Go Kit!!! You guys are on a roll!

And congrats on your successes, Sibe! She'll get those Open JWW Qs - just a matter of time 

I haven't updated in a couple of weeks because I thought I broke my dog. That Show and Go we went to a couple of weeks ago was so bad. She did stuff, but was super stressed the whole time. And here I thought my dog would go crazy zooming around. She was displacement sniffing all over the place, whining, refusing contact equipment... It was crazy. I felt so bad for her. Then the next night we had our first competition class with a new instructor. That was also a disaster. She just acted like I wasn't there. So we did like one jump, reward. Tunnel, reward. A Frame, reward. Like we were super beginners. Then we had a couple of weeks off. I did LOTS of recall games, brought crate games back in to the training routine, and didn't do much of any agility training. 

Fast forward to tonight...

She was AWESOME. Apparently not doing any agility is what she needs LOL. Here are the courses we ran tonight - she did them with only minor issues the first time around, and then PERFECTLY the second time. I couldn't believe it. My instructor was in shock LOL. Her weaves are still slow, but I think those will come back with time.









Of course I didn't have anyone there to tape me... But tonight gives me hope. We are also going to be riding the Show and Go circuit for a while to get her used to playing agility in different places. I think doing that will be worth it, though, especially seeing her run like she did tonight


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

After having what seems like 5 billion classes cancelled because of stupid rain (I live in the SUNSHINE state for crying out loud, LOL), we finally had one last night. Woot!

Anyways... last night at agility class, Harleigh ran an excellent course! Her only mishap was with the weave poles and I honestly have NO clue what went wrong there. I know she can do them, but for some reason I guess she just didn't want to last night  





A couple more videos...


----------



## Sibe

Finkie, I find that when we take 2-4 weeks off it can really help sometimes. I'm glad you're back on track! I know it can be really worrying when your dog suddenly starts stressing and refusing.

nikki I'm going to watch those vids but I'm currently uploading and my comp is so laggy it's skipping.. but I'm excited to watch them in a moment!


Denali is having A-frame issues. She's refusing to do 2o/2o as she's been trained to do, and recently she's been pausing at the top to take in the view. If I stand at the bottom and tell her "feet" she'll put herself in 2o/2o position. But if she does the entire obstacle, she won't do it. We've done absolutely no agility for 4 weeks. There was supposed to be class tonight but it was canceled last minute (and I didn't know) so I worked her anyway as we have a 3 day trial this weekend. She was great on everything but I'd hate for us to lose a Q because she misses her contact. She's not driving to the bottom like she used to. After trying for some 2o/2o and failing, working just the 2o/2o, then back to failing at the whole thing, I started just running. Told her "walk it" then ran and kept running away, looking over my shoulder to see what she'd do. It made her pause less at the top and she is hitting the contact on the way down, so maybe I should give up the 2o/2o and work on a running contact for her. Oh, and she does 2o/2o just fine on the dogwalk, and on a lowered A-frame. It's the full size steep A-frame she won't do it on.

Anyway, wish us luck this weekend! It's an AKC trial. She needs one more Q in Exc Standard, and 3 in Open JWW. I have really good feelings about how it's going to go


----------



## Sibe

So, we have been getting our butts _kicked_ by Open JWW. She moved from Novice to Open last September and we have had no Q's since in JWW and have run at least 7 courses of it (granted we have also had about 3 months of no trials in there). Today was FINALLY our lucky day!!!! She did it perfectly! Not only was she clean, but she was the only dog of the entire Open class that even Q'd! She has one more shiny blue ribbon to put on the board. Here is her run, the really tricky part was the entrance to the tunnel. One jump in the pinwheel at the beginning lines them up for it, and at the end the dog is on a straight line for the wrong end. It sucked a lot of dogs in.





I did notice that at the last weave pole her head dropped, showing stress, and she had her head down pretty much the rest of the course. Le sigh. Am I maybe staring her down too much? Eyes on the dog is important but I know she likes her space when she runs. Poles her been stress-free in class for a few months now.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Well, they are calling for thunderstorms today, but we are trialling anyways! Today will be my first time competing where I am in excellent for both standard and JWW! Heaven help us. Hopefully it will be super hot and muggy so my dog will be a little "melted." I think him verging on heatstroke will enhance our chance at success! We simply aren't ready for excellent, but we're there anyway. 

To Sibe--- Congratulations!!! Now that the dry spell is broken, it's all Q's ahead! Nice run!


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Are any of you doing the Susan Garrett online contacts course? I am, even though we're not doing agility at the moment. I did some agility with Pixie last year, and I'm starting with Obi in July...


----------



## Sibe

Our JWW today was sooooooo close! Perfect example of why to NEVER take your eyes off your dog.. I had to front cross after the weaves, and in the split second it took to make sure I was in the right spot and wasn't going to run myself into the jump, she slipped behind me. I'm still super proud of her for this course as it was exactly the same as the Exc one, minus one jump.





Standard was overall fantastic but we had weave issues, and then she flew off the A-frame at the end.


----------



## So Cavalier

Hey Sibe...I was at the site yesterday (Saturday) in the early afternoon. You must have left. I wasn't competing. I have done NADAC there but never AKC. I am thinking about starting up with AKC and just checking out the layout. Sorry I missed you.


----------



## Sibe

So Cavalier said:


> Hey Sibe...I was at the site yesterday (Saturday) in the early afternoon. You must have left. I wasn't competing. I have done NADAC there but never AKC. I am thinking about starting up with AKC and just checking out the layout. Sorry I missed you.


I wish I'd known you were there! I ran Exc Standard at about 10:30am I think. We were there, under our popup until the Open JWW run which was about 2pm. We were on the far end of the JWW course. Red popup with a gray screen. Had Kaytu and foster boxer dog there too.

Today was a mess. She was completely unfocused. Standard run she did the first 2 jumps then ran past the next 2. When I called her back to me, she jumped over both the wrong way. We continued and she did fine the next several obstacles. Then she refused the weaves. I walked her off the course. As soon as we were on the grass she pooped! I'm so thankful she didn't do it on the course, and no wonder she wasn't running well!! She had plenty of time to go as we were walking around and warming up..

3+ hours later was her JWW run. She started out beautifully. First 9 jumps were awesome. Then she randomly stopped. Just stopped and smelled and WOULD NOT leave the spot. I don't know if a dog had peed there earlier or if something was spilled or what. I really don't think it was stress as she was so intensely focused on the spot. Thoughts?? She then refused the weaves and I didn't ask her to redo them, but the rest of it was great.





This year has been yucky. We only got 1 Q out of 6 runs this weekend  . She got 1 Q in Exc Standard in January I think (I thought she has 2 but she only has one). Nothing in between, though we did take about two months off because she was stressing on the weaves. Last fall she was on fire, then we took 3 months off, and our training schedule has been really unpredictable this year.


----------



## So Cavalier

Oh no...I was there about that time. I was even standing right by the JWW ring as they were setting up the Novice course. I was talking to my friend who has a Parsons Russell Terrier named Molly. She had the blue canopy right by that ring. I even told my husband to look for a white husky. Well maybe next time. I will probably enter my dog in a AKC trial sometime this summer. I'll have to read the rules to see how they differ from what I am used to. My club only does NADAC and CPE so that is what we have been doing. I still don't quite understand the rules about "refusals" because we really don't have that in NADAC or CPE. I prefer this site to Rohr park because the grass is so much nicer. The planes are a pain though. We have a couple of CPE trials coming up in July. One in La Jolla and the other in Valley Center.



> Then she randomly stopped. Just stopped and smelled and WOULD NOT leave the spot.


My friend (Molly's owner) said she had seen pinto beans out on the course on Sat....You never know. At a CPE trial a few months back, a lot of dogs stopped in a tunnel and wouldn't come out. Turns out some rats had invaded the shed where the tunnels were stored and left either their smell, food, poop or all three in the tunnel. They had to switch out tunnels and really hose down that one. Not a good day to run a Jack....


----------



## Shaina

Sibe, Denali's looking good! I like the first vid on the second post...she was moving nicely for the first half of that course! She'll get more consistent as she figures it out!



Sibe said:


> 3+ hours later was her JWW run. She started out beautifully. First 9 jumps were awesome. Then she randomly stopped. Just stopped and smelled and WOULD NOT leave the spot. I don't know if a dog had peed there earlier or if something was spilled or what. I really don't think it was stress as she was so intensely focused on the spot. Thoughts?? She then refused the weaves and I didn't ask her to redo them, but the rest of it was great.


It did look to me like she really was sniffing "something" not just avoidance stiffing. Kim used to do that. How you deal with it depends on the dog I think. Kim enjoyed agility in a general sense but it wasn't the love of her life so to speak...she's also a fun combination of independent and very soft lol. The last time she did that was about a year ago...we were running outside on grass and there was one spot in one course she just wouldn't leave alone...just like Denali there her nose went down and glued...told her to come on...told her to LEAVE IT...she said Nope we're in a trial and you can't stop me...so I thanked the judge, picked her up, and carried her off course and all the way back to her crate. Didn't say anything, didn't get mad, just picked her up (she hates that...loss of control...) and removed her from the situation. 

She hasn't done it since . And since in her mind the option was removed, she focused a lot more on course instead of being so open to distraction...faster and more consistent from then on out.


----------



## Sibe

I feeling better now. I was really discouraged after our runs today, but my instructor knocked some sense back into me reminding me that she's a young, green dog and also a husky. She has great work ethic for her breed! I typically don't let it get me down when we have a bad weekend but I had high hopes for this trial for some reason.

The pinto beans were on the Standard course. I know my instructor (Patti, she has bearded collies and a pumi) and some others had been out there picking them up on Friday.

We're going to work on keeping her head up in class. She is constantly grazing, I call her my "little goat" even. She doesn't lose focus that bad in class.. unless there is dead bunny fluff.

My husband took some pics that I didn't know about!

Derpin' while waiting for our run









During that last JWW run. This looks like right where she was about to spin around (our cam can take pics while recording)









Then the rear cross once I got her attention back. Check out that fluffy tail! Hahaa


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Congrats on your Q, Sibe! She IS still so young - my instructors have to remind me of that constantly with Kimma, and we haven't even begun to compete yet! LOL. Just keep having fun with her - she seems to love playing the game 

Can't wait to hear results from your next trial


----------



## Sibe

Finkie_Mom said:


> Congrats on your Q, Sibe! She IS still so young - my instructors have to remind me of that constantly with Kimma, and we haven't even begun to compete yet! LOL. Just keep having fun with her - she seems to love playing the game
> 
> Can't wait to hear results from your next trial


Thanks! Will you guys be trialing any time soon? Sometimes you can find a fun run for charities or rescues, which are a lot less pressure and stress than a trial.

Our next trial probably won't be until August. I'm going to enter her in just JWW until she gets her last 2 Qs as waiting around for 3-4 hours between runs is boring and it turns into an all day event that exhausts everyone. It's so exhausting that hubby slept in the crate with Denali on Friday!









Sunday I brought the blanket. Was actually very comfy, I slept for about an hour between runs.









Saturday was the only day we brought the other two dogs, Kaytu and our foster boxer boy Diesel. They were full of drama. Such deep sorrow!


----------



## hamandeggs

First - Sibe, your dogs are gorgeous! And congrats on your Q!

Second - Biscuit and I, the total newbies, have really been enjoying our class. We had another session last night - we had to go to the Monday class instead of our usual Sunday class, and there were a lot more dogs than our usual class. Like twice as many. That's not a big deal. They had us sharing the equipment, so we were paired up with another dog/handler team and took turns running through each piece of equipment. We were supposed to stand way off to the side when it wasn't our turn, but not everyone was so good about giving enough space. This got a lot of dogs VERY wound up, including Biscuit, and of course agility class is a high-excitement environment to begin with. We did the weave poles first and Biscuit got extremely excited and lunged/snarled at our partner dog who had gotten too close to the target (yogurt lid loaded with cookies at the end of the weaves). Seemed like resource guarding/reactivity exacerbated by excitement and tension to me and my husband, but it was unnerving for sure. It happened with at least one other pair of dogs in the class, a golden and cocker the instructor had called "the ringers" when she paired them off. 

The instructor really didn't make a big deal of it and just said to stick cookies in Biscuit's face and get her to focus on me/not focus on the other dogs. The instructor said this is just as important to teach the dog as the equipment, and that she had had to teach her own border collie not to stare. She also said we could take a break and step out in the hallway if needed, like if Biscuit became too stressed out and stopped accepting treats. We didn't have to do that - backing off into a corner and sticking coookies in Biscuit's face really did work to help her calm down, especially once our partner got the memo and stopped hovering so close to the end of the equipment with her dog. The weaves was the first piece of equipment we worked on, and by time we had cycled through all the stations Biscuit was much calmer and was focusing on me and listening to me. But it was a little awkward. I felt like our partner was thinking Biscuit was a bad/aggressive dog, and every time Biscuit exhibits any kind of aggression I find it completely unnerving and sort of freak out a little. (Similar things have happened before, with other dogs' toys at the dog park.) 

So. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing, to ease my mind? It certainly seemed like a common thing - if a well-behaved golden and cocker were also mixing it up, it must not just be Biscuit! But I'd love to hear other people's experiences and advice. And training suggestions. Do you think some of the suggestions for reactive dogs would help? Biscuit does tend to stare down other dogs - any good suggestions (besides "look at that") for training her not to do that?

BTW - Biscuit is LOVING all the equipment and agility class, aka Time for a Trip to Hot Dog Town, is her favorite thing! Her favorite is the A-Frame! 

Also, if anyone is looking for training treat ideas (i.e. if there are newbies lurking) - we had been using tiny bits of regular hot dogs and string cheese, but then we realized that each hot dog had 150 calories! That is a lot of calories, considering that we go through three hot dogs and two or three string cheeses per class. We skip dinner on nights we have class, but that is still a lot and was sort of upsetting her stomach. So we switched to turkey dogs last night for a third the calories, and Biscuit thought they were just as awesome. Turkey dogs FTW!


----------



## dagwall

hamandeggs said:


> First - Sibe, your dogs are gorgeous! And congrats on your Q!
> 
> Second - Biscuit and I, the total newbies, have really been enjoying our class. We had another session last night - we had to go to the Monday class instead of our usual Sunday class, and there were a lot more dogs than our usual class. Like twice as many. That's not a big deal. They had us sharing the equipment, so we were paired up with another dog/handler team and took turns running through each piece of equipment. We were supposed to stand way off to the side when it wasn't our turn, but not everyone was so good about giving enough space. This got a lot of dogs VERY wound up, including Biscuit, and of course agility class is a high-excitement environment to begin with. We did the weave poles first and Biscuit got extremely excited and lunged/snarled at our partner dog who had gotten too close to the target (yogurt lid loaded with cookies at the end of the weaves). Seemed like resource guarding exacerbated by excitement and tension to me and my husband, but it was unnerving for sure. It happened with at least one other pair of dogs in the class, a golden and cocker the instructor had called "the ringers" when she paired them off.
> 
> The instructor really didn't make a big deal of it and just said to stick cookies in Biscuit's face and get her to focus on me/not focus on the other dogs. The instructor said this is just as important to teach the dog as the equipment, and that she had had to teach her own border collie not to stare. She also said we could take a break and step out in the hallway if needed, like if Biscuit became too stressed out and stopped accepting treats. We didn't have to do that - backing off into a corner and sticking coookies in Biscuit's face really did work, especially once our partner got the memo and stopped hovering so close to the end of the equipment with her dog. The weaves was the first piece of equipment we worked on, and by time we had cycled through all the stations Biscuit was much calmer and was focusing on me and listening to me. But it was a little awkward. I felt like our partner was thinking Biscuit was a bad/aggressive dog, and every time Biscuit exhibits any kind of aggression I find it completely unnerving and sort of freak out a little. (Similar things have happened before, with other dogs' toys at the dog park.)
> 
> So. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing, to ease my mind? It certainly seemed like a common thing - if a well-behaved golden and cocker were also mixing it up, it must not just be Biscuit! But I'd love to hear other people's experiences and advice.
> 
> BTW - Biscuit is LOVING all the equipment and agility class, aka Time for a Trip to Hot Dog Town, is her favorite thing! Her favorite is the A-Frame!
> 
> Also, if anyone is looking for training treat ideas (i.e. if there are newbies lurking) - we had been using tiny bits of regular hot dogs and string cheese, but then we realized that each hot dog had 150 calories! That is a lot of calories, considering that we go through three hot dogs and two or three string cheeses per class. We skip dinner on nights we have class, but that is still a lot and was sort of upsetting her stomach. So we switched to turkey dogs last night for a third the calories, and Biscuit thought they were just as awesome. Turkey dogs FTW!


We had a similar issue one of the nights in our agility class with having to wait to move on to the next piece of equipment for the dog/handler ahead of us to finish and clear the area. I would keep my distance from the dog/handler in front of us and ask the dog/handler behind us to do the same but far to often the dog/handler behind us would come stand right next to us. Jubel would then try and get that handler to give him treats by whatever means he thought might work. So they'd either be pestered by Jubel, their dog would possibly be bothered by this and start snarking at Jubel... then they'd give me dirty/questioning looks even though they are the ones who didn't respect OUR space. Stay 4-5' away and there is no issue, stand right next to us and my food whore of a dog WILL try and get you to give him more food. 

As for treats I wouldn't feed Jubel before class (much to his despair) and we'd go through about 2.5 turkey dogs during class. For the warm up exercises at the start of class I'd just start with kibble for as long as he'd continue to work for it, once most other handlers/dogs arrived and were handing out cheese, hot dogs, chicken, etc he wasn't going to pay attention to me and my kibble. Then I'd break out the hot dogs. I did make the mistake of buying some beef hot dogs the first week and I think there was just too much fat in them as he had very loose stool the next day, swapping to turkey dogs the following week and had no more issues.

I'm pretty sure Jubel's favorite was the A-frame as well. Really want to get into another agility class down the road but we're about to start a Manners II class in a few weeks that will end in a CGC test. After that will either be agility II or nose work II, whichever I can manage to get into first.


----------



## hamandeggs

I think we might do a second level of obedience after we're done with Agility 1. I want to do Agility 2, but obedience is a good thing. I really enjoy doing these classes, although it's really expensive. But I think my husband is starting to get freaked out by all the "crazy dog people" so I might be on my own after this semester!


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Sibe - I love Denali! She is absolutely gorgeous <3 Congrats on your Q! I'm trying to work up the courage to enter Harleigh in our first agility trial, but I just don't know yet. 

Anyways, last night at agility we were working on a lot of distance work and "angle" turns. She definitely worked her brain last night... this was her slow speed  

I think she is finally grasping the turn command, but she still has some hitches every now and then. 





Here is one time where I was sending her to an "out jump", she is weird with distance work sometimes. Sometimes she doesn't mind it, but other times she does not want to be far from me at all.





More "out" command work





As you can see in this video, she still has trouble with turn/rear crosses at times. Other than that, I really liked this sequence she did.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Nice videos, Nikki! I'd consider retraining the A-frame contact (or at least not letting her get away with blowing it off), unless you're looking for a running contact there. She seemed unsure.

We trial again two weekends from now. I'm looking for those last 2 chances Q's to qualify for nationals.


----------



## hamandeggs

Ugh, first we had our snarkiness issues (which, as I said, seemed like overexcitement and resource guarding to me) on Monday night, and then last night we got this email from the instructor (sent to all agility students):



> Dogs with people/dog issues must be crated and NOT tethered. This is for their stress level, student learning, and class safety. These pups MUST be crated and not be held on leash behind the gates as this creates stress for the pup and a hazard for classmates in close quarters. Plus it is no fun for the owner!
> 
> There have been a couple close calls recently: students will be excused if their pup is a danger to others. Please, everyone, read the recent link regarding DINOS (dogs in Need of Space!).
> 
> I am happy to work with anyone to help their dog transition to crating as this will now be required so classes can run smoothly and safely.
> 
> If we need to additional help with your dog, please contact me directly.


I'm a little unclear about how this would work, and I REALLY hope it's not directed at Biscuit! Crating would have helped us not a whit - our issues were from another dog hanging too close to the target at the end of the weave poles. 

This is stressing me out. Isn't agility supposed to be fun?


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Nice videos, Nikki! I'd consider retraining the A-frame contact (or at least not letting her get away with blowing it off), unless you're looking for a running contact there. She seemed unsure.
> 
> We trial again two weekends from now. I'm looking for those last 2 chances Q's to qualify for nationals.


Thanks!  Yeah, we are looking for a running contact there. We started training with 2o2o, but most of the time she physically could not stop herself on the a-frame. She is fine with 2o2o on the dog walk and teeter, but I think the running contact on the a-frame will be better for her. She still isn't 100% sold on the running contact which is probably why she is a bit unsure (well that and she IS quite the diva )

Good luck at your trial!!


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

It has been quiet these past few weeks. Where is everyone?! :

Anyways, we had a great night at agility yesterday! Harleigh had a blast, as usual. I think her favorite part was getting hosed down before we got started though : Crazy water lovin' dog! Since everyone else in my class was out of town, I just went into the more advanced class - eek! I didn't make myself look that bad though, LOL.

Didn't get many videos, but this was our first run of the night. This is an excellent course, I believe. Ignoring her little "crazy lab on the loose" in the beginning (and the jumping off the pause table ), I was pleased with it. We are still having trouble with her a-frame at times, but we did go back and let her redo the a-frame (just didn't get videoed). We're still working on it.






Oh yeah, my mom and my instructor evidently made plan for me and Harleigh. For October. First agility trial.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Been a while since I've posted in this thread... Kimma is still a bit stressy, but nowhere near where she was. So we've been doing tons of small exercises at home, lots of recall games in fields, and keeping up with crate games. 

I finally managed to get my DH to come out to class with me, so he shot some video. There were people standing in his way for one of them, but here is one full course - actually, the first video I have of her running a full course!

This was our last run of the day, and it was HOT in that barn so she was tired. Here ya go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e20amyiBpk

I only lose her once and she came back (I think she was distracted by my husband standing there LOL). We also had a bad serpentine in the run before this one that I, of course, went right home and tried with her and she did it perfectly. Grrrr 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnU60bLygfg


----------



## Finkie_Mom

So Kimma's weaves have been SLOWWW in class. I'm not sure if it's because we just started doing full courses and she's overwhelmed or what. So I finally was able to get some of my weaves to stick in the ground and I got some video of our going back to 6 in the hopes of getting faster/more confident entries and more speed overall.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Gnz0vYSrE

I don't want to stay with 6 for long at all, so I'm hoping to build 12 in the next few days. A few of my stick in the grounds are all broken (the soil here is SO ROCKY) and I hate that they never quite end up straight even with the guide thing I have - so building new ones is my goal LOL.

Any tips/comments?


----------



## MegaMuttMom

Just popping in to say hi and Cherokee loves to serpentine  In today's class everybody but me and Cherokee struggled with the serpentine. We don't train serpentines very much in class. When Cherokee's jumping, I can steer him like a sports car. It feels like we are dancing together and I love it.

Oh, we did one trial this summer and we would have Q'd in novice tunnelers but, I forgot to take off his collar! DOH! For jumpers, someone loaned me a slip lead. I lost him going into a front cross and it took me over 6 seconds to get him back around. Once I lose his attention, he is slow to pick up again. We did a nice finish but DQ'd for going over time  

The highlight of the day was meeting Mrs Boats and her sweet rotties!!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Somebody new around here is starting up an Obedience Class and a Beginners Agility. I am taking Lucy, who is six months old now, to the Obedience as she needs the socialization and will have to see what the Beginners Agility is like. The same person is putting on both (different nights and the Obedience is in the Park and the Agility at her place). The Obedience starts this coming Monday, 8 weeks for $100.00 which is quite reasonable. Depending on how she teaches the Obedience I may look into the Agility later in the year when Lucy is older. I want to find out first what her qualifications are as I have never seen her competing in Agility.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Kyllobernese said:


> I want to find out first what her qualifications are as I have never seen her competing in Agility.


I'd be a little wary. Around here, the agility community is tight. If I don't know someone, that means they aren't seriously into the sport (i.e. they haven't joined the local club), which means I'm not interested in taking classes from them. Obviously things may be different in other places, though.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

I was just told by my agility club that I can't train with them. I was due to start in about a month with Obi, and emailed them recently to ask if I can train SG style, which just means I want to use 2o2o with a target, instead of 2o2o without a target like the club teaches, and also start on really low equipment, because the club expects dogs to go over near full height equipment within a few sessions and a full seesaw without doing any desensitisation to the movement and noise. They said they can't accommodate that, and if I won't train their way I shouldn't train with them. They also seemed to think I was criticising their way of doing it because I wanted to do things differently.

So that's quite disappointing. Hubby built me a seesaw this weekend so I can do some basics at home, but I don't have room for the other stuff. The only other club I can get to is a bit of a drive away, and Obi doesn't travel that well. I don't know how flexible they are either.

Blergh.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

"Clubs" must mean different things in different places. My local agility club has a couple of hundred members who compete in lots of different venues, with lots of different instructors and lots of different methods. It's pretty much the go-to place for anyone who has an interest in the sport, no matter what breed, level, or method they train. The club hosts maybe 8-ish trials per year, but is very supportive of people attending trials put on by other clubs, any venue, fun runs, etc. The club list serve is a fabulous place to advertise anything agility-related, such as upcoming local trials, etc.

From what you've said, your "club" seems like a for-profit business with one or more instructors offering agility classes. Is this accurate? It's a shame they won't let you participate without buying into their methods. One thing I've learned thru agility is that dogs are individuals and the owner is likely to know best what will and won't work for their dog.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Your club sounds great 

My club is pretty small, and not for profit. I think it's a community thing, run by volunteers, but the people who run it have run it for years and years, like a family business almost. They do puppy classes, obedience geared towards agility, advanced obedience geared towards agility, and then beginner's, intermediate and advanced agility classes. 

The agility classes all run on the same night, there is one section where there is a full course set up for the advanced group, one section where they have all the contact equipment and one section for jumps and weaves, and the 3 classes take turns on the equipment and jumps. So it's a bit crowded and there wouldn't be much time where I would be able to adjust the equipment how I wanted it.

You'd think they'd be happy to accommodate someone who's serious about the sport though, especially seeing as they claim to like SG's methods. Even if they don't want to change how their classes are run, you'd think they'd be interested in just seeing how a famous agility trainer would do it. If I was running a class and someone came along and said they'd done training with this really famous trainer and if they could have some time on the equipment to just do their own thing, I would welcome it, and be interested in how it was done. I find it very arrogant for the club to say "we've worked out the best possible way to do this, there is no room for improvement, and for you to suggest you have a better way of doing it is rude and we don't want you here".

Keeping in mind that I never suggested their method is inferior to SG, I only asked if I could train SG style and do my own thing for part of the class, they're the ones who felt threatened by something different.


----------



## Sibe

I stayed an extra half hour at class last night to work on the A-frame. She's been consistently blowing her contact and jumping off from halfway up. She's also been stopping at the top to admire the view. We have a trial this weekend and she's only entered in JWW but I really need the behavior fixed. She knows the end behavior perfectly. I bring her around at the base and say "feet" and she hops on in perfect 2o/2o form. If she did the whole thing she'd never stop at the bottom.

First we lowered the A-frame to give her an easier stop. (I was also using a clicker and every single time would click when her front paws touched the grass). Worked both sides until she was stopping every time. Then I started from farther away and really pushed her to run fast, again doing both sides. Then we went back over to the fullsized one. Put the treat plate down at the base. Started a little closer, less speed. She was doing awesome so we backed up and got more speed. She was still hesitating at the top most of the time. Instructor told me to stop halfway just before the top. Nali stopped too. I give the "feet" cue as her back feet leave the ground on the way up. Since she stopped I said "feet" again and she scooted herself down while I waited. She got better and better, and I started lagging more and more. She has to be able to do the behavior herself. Each time there was one treat on the plate at the bottom, and she would wait for me to catch up, treat, and then release her. Much faster reward if you don't stop at the top! She had a few misses but by the end of the half hour she was at least 90-95% as long as the treat plate was there. Without the plate she'd twist her rear off the end and look back for me so we still have some work to do. It was a VERY long time to work on one behavior but she was excited and motivated. We took a couple breaks too.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I am re-teaching my A-frame. It's going really well. Instead of a 2o/2o, I am switching to a quick drop at the base (all feet on the ground). Then, I release from a down. My coaches reasoning: I have a very top-heavy dog and this will take a bunch of pressure off of his shoulders and by him more time in the sport.

To do this, I have a box frame that just fits his body. He has to place himself in the box completely. I put the box at the base of the A frame. Eventually, you fade the box. As a result of this change, my dog is even faster on his descent. He isn't worried about dumping speed in the same was as he was doing the 2o/2o.


----------



## Sibe

I've seen the box method used before with a larger dog and it worked really well for her. I'd prefer a 2o/2o for Denali, she's dainty and lightweight enough (40 lbs) and doesn't tend to ram forward on her shoulders too much. I've had more issue with her slamming into the A-frame on the way up than jarring herself on the way down. When she's running fast in a straight line for it she jumps straight up into it sometimes instead of angling herself up. Really scary! We worked on it and she hasn't done it in a long time.


----------



## Kyllobernese

The A-frame is what crippled Susie up. The trainer wanted her to do a 2o2o at the bottom. Susie being Bernese cross is very front heavy and she came down the A-frame and stopped too fast hurting her shoulder. It always seemed to bother her after that and she started not wanting to go into the tunnels because she had to crouch so I retired her. It is a shame as she loved Agility. I just recently set up my weave poles for Remmy and even though she has not seen them for literally five years, when I asked Remmy to go through them, Susie ran over and went through them. She was so proud of herself. She got lots of treats because you could tell she was not comfortable doing them, but still did.


----------



## Sibe

Weeeeell miss Denali didn't do so great today. You can tell just by the image.. I'm going one way and she's going another! ETA: she blew straight by the weaves on her first try, it's hard to see.





It was freakin 85* with not a cloud in the sky and no breeze. You could tell none of the dogs were thrilled about the heat. She was surprisingly focused on the warmup jump. We got in the ring and she kind of followed but basically did her own thing. She derp'd around and we didn't finish the course. It's really frustrating because she *never* does that in class.

Today was a bit challenging anyway. The course itself was no piece of cake. Then there was the heat, I had a migraine last night I'm still recovering from (I get them with an aura, numbness in my face and arm, and my brain stops working- can't recognize words or names, can't put a piece of bread on a plate, etc so excuse any typos or wrong words).

1 is at the bottom right, the green line. Then pink line, then red line. Tricky part was jump 10. I rear crossed it.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Sibe, do you think Denali could have known about the migraine and been reacting to that?

We've been doing a lot of agility lately. Last week we had Thursday class, Sunday group practice, Tuesday individual practice, and then Thursday class again. Our trial two weekends ago went well: 4 Q's out of 6. We'll trial again next weekend, Saturday and Monday. We're also doing flatwork at the park as often as I can manage. All of this is in preparation for champs in October. The courses there will be long (30+ obstacles!), so we're trying to run a lot of long courses. Kit doesn't even seem to notice, but I'm working on my think-on-your-feet skills, as well as my lung capacity.


----------



## Sibe

It's possible, but there were so many dogs having "off" days that I'm chalking it up to it be so dang hot and her having too much energy. I typically run her a lot more to get the edge off her crazy unfocused energy and I wasn't able to do that either due to the heat. Lately I've been bringing my bike to trials and mushing her for a good 10-15 minutes shortly before her run. It seems to help a lot.

I always have to remind myself that 1) I'm working with a typically "difficult" breed for agility, and 2) she is only 2 and 1/2 years old. We've come a long way and I'm always proud of what she accomplishes, even if I end up a bit frustrated too.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

LOL Sibe - off days are the story of Kimma's life. I can sympathize 

GLM - WOAH. That is a LONG course! Glad Kit is taking it all in stride. I can't wait to hear all about Champs! I'm so glad you guys get to go 

We haven't been able to get anyone to record any of our runs recently, but here are a couple from the end of July:









We also did another Fun Run at the beginning of the month, and it went TONS better than the first one back in May! But she was so intrigued by the turf (we had never been on a surface like that before) so of course she immediately has to go investigate 





Other than that, I've been working to get her weaves faster and her entries more consistent. Here are some weave training videos from the past week:









I have also started running WITH her from the start line to get her speed/energy up, as has been recommended to me by my instructor. It's been working well for us so far!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

So class on Monday was AWESOME! She was happy, into it, and really liked playing the game. Still not as fast as she used to be, and in one of the clips I screwed up her weave entry, but still a HUGE improvement. Here are our runs:










With all that being said/done, I think we might FINALLY enter our first trial in the middle of October!!! Just gotta figure out the height measuring stuff?


----------



## Sibe

Finkie, on the second video EXCELLENT wrap coming out of the tunnel, over that jump, to the A-frame. Beautiful 

Are you planning on doing AKC or something else? I know about height measuring for AKC but that's it lol.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Sibe said:


> Finkie, on the second video EXCELLENT wrap coming out of the tunnel, over that jump, to the A-frame. Beautiful
> 
> Are you planning on doing AKC or something else? I know about height measuring for AKC but that's it lol.


Thanks!!! We've done a decent amount of wrap work, but haven't had to use it much until more recently. 

We will be doing AKC, probably exclusively.


----------



## Sibe

I had Denali measured by my instructor and used that to mark on the Trial Premium what height she would jump at, and then also you need to mark the box that says "My dog needs to be measured." You will receive an email with all the trial info, judging schedule, etc. and it should include times when dogs can be measured (for example, it could say "MEASURING: Our Judge is a Volunteer Measuring Official. He will be available to measure before the Excellent Classes, before the Open classes and before the Novice classes.") When you get to the trial, set up your stuff and then find the check in table which (around here at least) it always next to a big trailer. Get your sticker with your number on it, look in the "Dogs to be Measured" papers. I asked what I needed to do to get my dog measured as she'd never been measured before and it was our first trial. The volunteers are very helpful; they brought the judge over for me between classes. Your dog will be put on the measuring table and measured, and you'll either be given a temporary jump height card if the judge is not a VMO, or a permanent one if the judge is. You will need 2 VMO judges to measure for a permanent jump height card. Once one VMO judge has measured, you do not need to be measured again until another VMO judge is available (for example, you trial in November and are lucky enough to have a VMO judge so get one signature. You trial in Decemeber and the judge is not a VMO, but you don't need to be measured for that trial. You trial in January and the judge is a different VMO, so you should get measured at that trial to get the second signature).

Make sure you show up early enough to set up, get your dog measured, walk the course, and get your dog warmed up. Your check in time is the earliest the class could start- starting meaning the judge gives a briefing and you have 8 minutes to walk the course before they call for first dog on the line. They won't start early, and typically things run late. I recommend showing up at least half an hour before your check in time to get yourself oriented. In front of each ring will be papers with the running order for that class, make sure you check off your dog there too. Don't be afraid to ask people there if you have a question or aren't sure what to do.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Thanks for the advice, Sibe!!!! I spoke to my old instructor (who is a VMO) and plan to go to my club's trial in September to get Kimma measured by her, and I think another VMO will be there. That would be ideal! Either way, I checked the box for "my dog needs to be measured" on the entry forms, so that would be fine as well. 

With that being said, I just mailed out the entry forms for our first trial in October


----------



## agility_addict

I started doing agility when I was 17 with my ESS, Nikota but before graduation from beginners class I was badly injured in a near fatal mva and didn't go further after graduation due to the amount of pain I was in, I regret it to this day that I didn't stick it out and see how far she could have gone as she passed almost 2 years ago now from cancer, she was almost 14. I have her daughter, Roxy and at almost 10 I am going to try her out in beginners class, mainly for fun and the experience of working with a high strung/low focus dog, but my trialing agility dog is my 3 year old Doberman/Schnauzer/Sheltie X, Elli Mae. We started beginners lessons when she was 8 months old and she advanced quite quickly to competition level classes. We have done 3 trials (2 this summer and 1 last fall) and on Sunday she got her first Q, in jumpers. She almost moved up to advanced jumpers in one day, she placed 1st in both jumpers runs and only received 5 faults on the first run (she was running around like a loon at first) and she was clean on the second run. She placed 4th in gamblers the day before, and we never even tried gamblers before that day and she didn't do too bad in snooker either for her first time, making it all the way to 6b before getting timed out. I am so incredibly proud of her, and myself for that matter as I didn't expect to Q her that quickly. We have our 3rd trial this year next month and though I'm not holding my breath I'm hoping for another jumpers Q so we can move up to advanced... though that just means more work and dedication on both our parts, lol.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Class last night was fun. We did three short sequences with a lot of distance. At one point, I turned Kit away from me and sent her out to a jump and then a dog walk that was a good 25 or 30' from me, layering multiple obstacles. We need the distance practice cause each champs course will have a distance challenge in it!!!

We're trialing tomorrow and Monday, then individual practice on Tuesday and class again on Thursday. I'm thinking we might take a little break after champs. At this rate, we're both gonna need it!

ETA:
Yesterday's trial went well: 4 Q's out of 6. Unfortunately we missed the chances Q's, which is what I really wanted. But on the bright side, we completed our superior in open weavers, which means we're now in ELITE!!! Holy cow we zoomed thru open. It's certainly odd, but Kit's first novice Q, first novice title, first outstanding novice title, first superior novice title, first open title, first outstanding open title, and first superior open title have all been weavers! We're almost out of open regular, tunnelers, and touchNgo, too. We're slightly behind in jumpers, and way behind in chances. We've got two more opportunities at chances Q's tomorrow.


----------



## hamandeggs

In stark contrast to GottaLuvMutts and Kit, here is a newbie post! Last night was the first time I saw Biscuit "get" the weaves. I had been working her on leash on the weaves, on the theory that otherwise she would pop out, and I just could not get her any kind of enthusiastic about it. Targeting, pepperoni, her favorite toys...no. She moseyed through with her head down, clearly bored to tears. The instructor could get her revved up a little more, but still nothing spectacular. The instructor said to keep trying to get that bouncy motion, but Biscuit just was not into it. 

BUT! Then, last night, I tried running her through the weaves off leash as an experiment. HOLY COW. She knew exactly what to do, bounced back and forth like a pro, and I had to run to keep up with her. And she was totally driving to get back in and do it again in the other direction. It was seriously like night and day - I had no idea the leash could make such a difference. I had been considering quitting agility because of this, but...maybe not!


----------



## valuta8

hamandeggs- Huh. I've had the same problem you have with the weaves, but she's been on-leash the whole time! I guess I'll try it next class  

Lulu used to do agility and she so so so eager about it, she flies around courses. Unfortunately, horse show season started and I could hardly ever make it to class! So now we're starting up this wednesday, I'm really excited about it.


----------



## Sibe

I haven't heard of simply guiding a dog through with a leash... sounds like it would take them a VERY long time to understand what the heck they're supposed to do! Most dogs are taught using channel weaves or, my preferred method, 2 by 2s.

Channel weaves look like this. The dog runs straight through.









Then the weaves are slowly brought together over time









The 2x2 method is amazing. Teaches the dog to find the entrance very, very well and teaches them a different way to think about the weaves that makes a lot of sense.
[I didn't toss a treat or toy through for Denali, I captured it by waiting for her to walk through on her own. Dogs often understand better when they figure it out themselves and aren't lured.]


----------



## hamandeggs

We started with pole guides on the poles so there was only one way through and that was to weave, and at that point we worked off leash. Then they got rid of the pole guides and added little fence panels sticking out from the poles in alternating directions, so now the sides are open and the dog can choose to either weave or pop out, but the fence panel makes it obvious which side of the pole the dog should be on. Most dogs learn through repetition what they're supposed to be doing. I suspect that Biscuit knew the drill a long time ago, but no one suggested I remove the leash so I didn't (until I decided to experiment). That's where we're at now - with the fence panels - about midway through level 3. I'm not sure when they remove the fence panels and how they'll introduce it when they do. 

We did a little bit of the 2x2/shaping method at first, but we spent the most time working on repetition. 

Does this method sound crazy? I'm a bit on the fence about continuing with this instructor (slash, at all). She has a great reputation, but even though there are only 6 dogs in the 60-minute class, Biscuit and I hardly get any attention or advice. I don't have a yard or space for my own equipment, and I'm a total newbie so I wouldn't have it anyway, but ... I sort of feel like this instructor blows me off because I'm "green."


----------



## Sibe

Repetition works, but it's much faster and more effective to actually teach them what to do. You dog doesn't have to think about what they're doing when you're guiding them. You can always do 2x2s on your own as well.


----------



## hamandeggs

Sibe said:


> Repetition works, but it's much faster and more effective to actually teach them what to do. You dog doesn't have to think about what they're doing when you're guiding them. You can always do 2x2s on your own as well.


I agree, and definitely favor that kind of training, but for agility it's hard because we have no equipment or space to use equipment! Not even a park where it would be a possibility. My living room is too small for that sort of thing. I know that might sound crazy, but it's true!


----------



## Sibe

Do you have a garage or level driveway? I see you're in DC, so I get it if you truly don't have any room!

I built my own 2x2 poles for super cheap out of PVC plumbing pipe.


















After putting them together I spiraled blue painters tape down the poles to give them a stripe. You can also use nail polish remover to get rid of the text if you want.


----------



## hamandeggs

Sibe said:


> Do you have a garage or level driveway? I see you're in DC, so I get it if you truly don't have any room!
> 
> I built my own 2x2 poles for super cheap out of PVC plumbing pipe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After putting them together I spiraled blue painters tape down the poles to give them a stripe. You can also use nail polish remover to get rid of the text if you want.


Wow that is ingenius! I can't believe how much agility equipment costs when I look at it online. I think I could probably work something like that in my living room, but only one at a time. 

We don't have a driveway or a garage - we park our car in an alley. We don't have any kind of outdoor space at all. Our condo building has a very small courtyard, but it's the route everyone in all the units takes to get into their apartments, not really great for dog things (I've tried with jumps). Basically, the nearest thing would be a 45 minute drive out to my in-laws' house in the suburbs. It's just one of those city frustrations, I guess.

PS, love that your cat appears to be checking out the 2x2. So cute!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

So we have a bit of news.... Kimma and I went to our first trial this weekend, and pulled out 4 Qs and 4 first places out of 4 runs (2 standard, 2 jumpers)!!!! I'm SO PROUD of my girl, and that means we are ALMOST titled LOL. We have another trial for sure in the beginning of November (I only entered one day, though), so hopefully we can pull off one title then. Not only did she DO everything (though of course not with out some things that could have been better), but she had fun!!! I think I've fixed her anxiety problem LOL. No video, as I didn't want to jinx anything, but here's a pic of the happy girl with her ribbons 










And we have class tonight, so I will be able to start addressing the issues we ran in to (breaking her table stay, which of course she NEVER does, and a bit of a teeter problem). I know we will probably never have a weekend like this again, but I'm so thankful that she just was excited to run and that she listened LOL.


----------



## Sibe

Wow!!!! Congrats to you and Kimma!!


----------



## Kyllobernese

This coming Saturday I am finally able to start some Foundation Agility classes with Lucy and my sister is taking her Sister, Lisa, to the same classes. I never got the chance with Remmy and missed out on a lot of things he should have learned. He has done really well, so I am not complaining, but really looking forward to teaching Lucy right from the start. She has one course of Obedience training and is really smart. I am also putting Remmy in some Agility handling classes as I need to get better at it now that he is in Masters in almost everything. (just needs two more Advanced Snooker to move up in games) The Instructor has done and trained Agility for over 11 years and is an AAC judge. Both Lucy and Lisa are Shih Tzu x Maltese like Remmy.


----------



## mashlee08

Starting adult foundation with Indie tonight! Very excited and unsure at the same time. I have NO idea how she is going to go. So... watch this space


----------



## Laurelin

I was reminded once again at how great a difference good training makes. Summer and I did agility at two places before my current training facility. She was always a pretty natural dog at it. but as we trained, she got slower and slower. At 6 years old I called it quits. Didn't know what was going on with her, figured she was getting old. I started back with Mia and felt bad Summer wasn't getting to go so we decided 'what the heck, we'll try it.' Started her back up in pre-agility. Summer is blowing me away at 8 1/2 years old. She's incredibly fast and responsive. She's hilarious too, always trying to come up with something to do if I give her a confusing signal. Unfortunately I've accidentally sent her the wrong way a few times which has ended up in embarassment. She did a wonderful run of a few obstacles and then jumped over someone on the sideline's arms. 

Still on the baby stuff but i'm having so much fun relearning with her. This place is big into lots and lots of foundations. We've been training since april and still haven't seen all the equipment. But man has it changed her entire outlook in regards to agility. She is the wildest and fastest dog in the class (even faster than Mia). And she's having so much fun, it just makes me smile to see my old dog that way. It does make me sad to think we wasted her best years though with bad trainers.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

WTG Kimma! 

ham, I'm thinking I'd drop any instructor who had the dog leashed while learning weaves. Really, after people establish control (i.e. dog won't run off to visit others), there's no place for leashes anymore, IMO. Traditional methods that I'd accept include the guides and channels, though I'd really prefer an instructor to use 2x2 nowadays.

Leading up to champs, we were doing agility 2-3 times a week. It was pretty draining for me, though Kit is always ready for more. I've scaled back since we got back. Still attending weekly classes, and trialing this weekend, but no extra practice sessions recently. 

I do have a bit of an update on classes:
Though I had two fabulous instructors (hubby-wife team) who I adored, I decided to switch instructors. My new instructor is a guy whose handling style I've admired forever. I credit him with recruiting me and Kit to the sport years ago. He runs a wicked fast BC and is extremely thoughtful in his handling style, as well as in his teaching style, and he makes an effort to comment on something that could be improved in every run. I'm excited for the improvements that his instruction is likely to bring, though I fully understand the responsibility to make those improvements rests with me. He's also good friends with my former instructors (same training facility, etc.), so I definitely haven't burned any bridges there. And as an added bonus (or not, depending on how you look at it), he happens to be Kit's favorite person on the planet. She goes ape **** whenever she sees him. I've even been known to use him as a reward for a good run.


----------



## hamandeggs

GottaLuvMutts said:


> ham, I'm thinking I'd drop any instructor who had the dog leashed while learning weaves. Really, after people establish control (i.e. dog won't run off to visit others), there's no place for leashes anymore, IMO. Traditional methods that I'd accept include the guides and channels, though I'd really prefer an instructor to use 2x2 nowadays.


Congrats on the new instructor! Sounds like a great move.

Thanks for the good advice. I agree. Biscuit has been off leash for everything but the weaves for awhile now. There are problems with dogs coming visiting and I wish they had focused a little more on that. I understand having dogs leashed or crated when they're not working, that makes sense, but I sort of think in this class some dogs have been moving up levels before they're really ready. I would also really like Biscuit to get a little more attention than she gets now (basically none). 

I've already started looking around and I talked to a lady at the AKC club here the other day. She seemed very nice and I liked what she was saying about their program, but it's very hard for me, not being super familiar with the agility world, to evaluate potential instructors. But we have time and will figure something out. (And if on the off chance anyone here knows of someone great in the DC area, I'd love to know!)


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

ham, I would highly recommend attending some trials. They're always looking for workers to help out, and the jobs are easy. Some clubs even give out worker's tickets so that you get compensated for your time. This is the best place to meet people, learn more about the sport, and talk to people about their instructors to get a better sense of what's available in the area. I moved from my first instructor (mediocre) to my second instructor (a huge improvement) because I attended a trial where my current (and third) instructor introduced me to my second instructor and asked her to make room in her class for me. At least in my area, a lot of classes are like this: by invitation only, and you really have to prove yourself to get that invite.

Recap of today's trial:
We got 4 Q's out of 6 runs. Two were nearly flawless: a jumpers run (open) and a regular run (elite). Two were "dirty Q's" (not perfect, but clean enough to Q and under the time limit): another regular run and a touch n' go. The NQ's were chances (first run: she was wild!) and a weavers run that included a bobbled hoop and some distraction in the weaves. The TNG run was our open superior, so we're moving to elite in another class. Tomorrow we've got chances, 2 more regulars, jumpers, tunnelers, and weavers.

ETA: 
Today (Sunday) went very well for us. 6 runs, 6 Q's, and the bobbles were few and far between. The tunnelers run was another open superior, so we're now in elite in everything except jumpers (need 1 more), chances (need 4 more), and hoopers (throw-away class - doesn't really count). Today's chances run blew my socks off. It was a tough course, but we ran it fast and squeaky clean, and it was really fun. 

So for the weekend, we were 10 for 12. Of those 12 runs, placements were awarded in 10, and we placed 1st in 6 out of those 10. Proud of my little girlie, as always.


----------



## kadylady

I have been stalking this thread for quite awhile and really enjoy reading everyone's posts. Zoey and I are agility newbies and totally loving it! Tonight we finished class 7 of 8 and finally feel like I can post in the agility classes thread! We are taking our class at the local agility club and I really like the instructors so far. Tonight we worked up to running 5 obstacles in a sequence and I really felt like we were doing agility for real!! (obviously I know we have a loooooong way to go lol) It was awesome and Zoey did so great! Our best sequence was dog walk, tunnel, jump, jump. She nailed it every time! She is doing so amazing in class and I can tell she loves it. We have worked up to full height dog walk and A-frame, full height jumps and tire jump, tunnels (curved and straight) and the tables. We have only done the chute twice so she is pretty careful going through that still but was much more confident with it tonight. We are about halfway with the teeter (the ends are propped on 2 tables and one table gets lowered every class) and she gets more confident every time, she love love loves the wobble board. Next week is our last class and I'm already sad that its ending and hoping that whatever class we need next is offered soon! I am hoping to persuade my husband to come to our last class so he can take some videos for me. Anyway, just wanted to share and say that I love reading everyone's agility posts!


----------



## valuta8

hamandeggs said:


> We started with pole guides on the poles so there was only one way through and that was to weave, and at that point we worked off leash. Then they got rid of the pole guides and added little fence panels sticking out from the poles in alternating directions, so now the sides are open and the dog can choose to either weave or pop out, but the fence panel makes it obvious which side of the pole the dog should be on. Most dogs learn through repetition what they're supposed to be doing. I suspect that Biscuit knew the drill a long time ago, but no one suggested I remove the leash so I didn't (until I decided to experiment). That's where we're at now - with the fence panels - about midway through level 3. I'm not sure when they remove the fence panels and how they'll introduce it when they do.
> 
> We did a little bit of the 2x2/shaping method at first, but we spent the most time working on repetition.
> 
> Does this method sound crazy? I'm a bit on the fence about continuing with this instructor (slash, at all). She has a great reputation, but even though there are only 6 dogs in the 60-minute class, Biscuit and I hardly get any attention or advice. I don't have a yard or space for my own equipment, and I'm a total newbie so I wouldn't have it anyway, but ... I sort of feel like this instructor blows me off because I'm "green."


 No instructor should blow you off. She should have separate classes for the greenies, and then diffferent classes to graduate up to as you get better. In my sixty minute class I got an average of maybe five minutes of attention today, because almost every other handler took FOREVER and is obnoxious about their practice runs, like "well I'd really like to do this again" and having on-going conversations about how good the dog is at home blah blah blah and I'm just gonna try this blah blah blah what about this blah blah blah and meanwhile the dog is running around sniffing the ground picking up dropped treats and I'm going :frusty: Usually there are more instructors in the class to take care of the time issue. but today there was only one.


----------



## valuta8

hamandeggs said:


> Congrats on the new instructor! Sounds like a great move.
> 
> Thanks for the good advice. I agree. Biscuit has been off leash for everything but the weaves for awhile now. There are problems with dogs coming visiting and I wish they had focused a little more on that. I understand having dogs leashed or crated when they're not working, that makes sense, but I sort of think in this class some dogs have been moving up levels before they're really ready. I would also really like Biscuit to get a little more attention than she gets now (basically none).
> 
> I've already started looking around and I talked to a lady at the AKC club here the other day. She seemed very nice and I liked what she was saying about their program, but it's very hard for me, not being super familiar with the agility world, to evaluate potential instructors. But we have time and will figure something out. (And if on the off chance anyone here knows of someone great in the DC area, I'd love to know!)


ME ME! 
Haha, I don't think it's close enough to you though. She has wonderful beginner classes and has great instruction on handling skills when it's your turn to run, and she does do a thorough assessment before moving you up. She teaches weaves with channels, and she has a view assistant instructors too. 
It's Mountain View Dog Agility in Amissville. You can google them. It's about twenty minutes from Warrenton, so that'd be about an hour drive for you.


----------



## hamandeggs

valuta8 said:


> ME ME!
> Haha, I don't think it's close enough to you though. She has wonderful beginner classes and has great instruction on handling skills when it's your turn to run, and she does do a thorough assessment before moving you up. She teaches weaves with channels, and she has a view assistant instructors too.
> It's Mountain View Dog Agility in Amissville. You can google them. It's about twenty minutes from Warrenton, so that'd be about an hour drive for you.


Thanks for the rec...that place looks fabulous, and once again I am wishing I lived out in the country! That's really a 90 minute drive each way from me - I live all the way downtown in the District. 

I'm thinking about doing a 3-week weave mini-class. We're now working without the guides and fences, and Biscuit is like THISCLOSE to being off the leash. I was trying to figure out why my instructor teaches weaves on leash. She said she teaches her dogs the same way. I think it's because the leash removes the temptation to use your body to guide the dog through the weaves and because it makes it easier to take the dog back to the start if she pops out. She has us hold the leash loose, but directly above the dog and the poles. Still not sold. I wish I had space to practice outside class.


----------



## Laurelin

It is interesting how trainers teach differently. We're months into training now. Mia's been going this round since April and we started over at the foundation. I think the most we've done is 3 obstacles so far. It's been a lot of the tedious handling work. Wrapping versus driving forward, collecting, etc. Lots of figure 8s and things like that. Front and back crosses, which I suck at. Last week I was turning every single sequence the wrong direction. I need some way to tell my left from my right.

Our big focus lately is gaining distance. We've been working Mia's teeter a lot too. I thought we had it down after weeks of work to get her to pause at the tipping point. We tried it without that really forced break and she bailed. Just used it as a launching pad pretty much. So we're back to targetting at the tipping point.

It's interesting and definitely a departure from my old classes where by now we were running half courses. I like it though, a lot. Still getting used to the silent handling too. Pretty much the only words the trainers use are go (drive forward), and then the dog's name (come back in to me). Everything else is very very sparingly used. I don't even think we named an obstacle to the dogs at all. I still slide back into the 'Mia jump jump tunnel!' though. I noticed before that I could call the wrong obstacle and the dog would take the correct one. It really is mostly cueing from our body position that they go off of.

anyways, we're spectating a fun match this weekend. Should be fun. Maybe I can get some pictures. 

And tonight is class.


----------



## hamandeggs

Laurelin said:


> It's interesting and definitely a departure from my old classes where by now we were running half courses. I like it though, a lot. Still getting used to the silent handling too. Pretty much the only words the trainers use are go (drive forward), and then the dog's name (come back in to me). Everything else is very very sparingly used. I don't even think we named an obstacle to the dogs at all. I still slide back into the 'Mia jump jump tunnel!' though. I noticed before that I could call the wrong obstacle and the dog would take the correct one. It really is mostly cueing from our body position that they go off of.


That is interesting. Our instructor basically left the vocal command decision up to us so far. I hear a lot of people say "Go Tunnel" and so forth. I tend to get tongue-tied though, so I'm basically limiting myself to Biscuit's name and "Go!" like they're doing in your class. It's amazing what they pick up from body language.


----------



## Laurelin

hamandeggs said:


> That is interesting. Our instructor basically left the vocal command decision up to us so far. I hear a lot of people say "Go Tunnel" and so forth. I tend to get tongue-tied though, so I'm basically limiting myself to Biscuit's name and "Go!" like they're doing in your class. It's amazing what they pick up from body language.


I slip up all the time and yell obstacle names. I could yell sandwich and if my dog was in front of a jump and my body position was telling her to go over it, she'd take it. 

I have been very surprised at how non verbal training really can be. 

Last week we were working on a three obstacle 'run'. It was tunnel, jump, then back through the same tunnel. Every time Mia would back jump the jump to go into the tunnel. Yep, handling error on my part. In fact every time Mia has messed up so far, my trainer will point it out to me that my body position is telling her to go where she is going. Aka: Mia's right, I'm wrong.

Mia is a lot more sensitive to me than Summer is. If I'm off much, she will go off course. 

Agility training is so interesting to me.


----------



## LoMD13

We're told to use verbal commands and to say the next obstacle AS the dog is taking the one that she's on- just as a way to get her prepared for what she's about to do. I always get tongue tied though and forget what I call stuff, so I've always suspected it didn't make that much difference.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our first Foundation Agility class last Saturday. We worked on two things. She teaches the weaves using the channel method. We had them running down the channel as we won't be actually doing the weaves with Lucy and Lisa until they are a little older. We then taught them what Jump meant, clicking as they went over the really low bar. I will have to take more treats with me this Saturday as you sure go through a lot more using the clicker as every time you click you give them a treat.

Had fun running some short courses with Remmy, learning front crosses. Never realized how much I depend on the numbered obstacles at the trials. I have only gone off-course at one trial in the last year but I must have gone off-course several times at the practice. Probably good for the old brain to memorize the courses better without the numbers.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

I've tried running silently or using words minimally. It doesn't work so well for me because Kit derives much of her drive from my voice (or maybe tone). If I'm quiet, she tends to think she's wrong. That said, I don't cue every obstacle. I verbally cue contacts, tunnels, and polls. I say "out" or "here" for discriminations. I use "turn" to mean turn away, and here for turn towards me. I use "go" to cue the straight path if I'm behind. I use "out" to cue far away obstacles. What I try to avoid is cueing every obstacle. For example, a line of jumps leading to a tunnel is just "go tunnel".

Last night's class was fun. So far I'm loving the new class. Lots of elite distance challenges, which we need. I keep thinking that they're just slightly beyond our comfort zone, and then Kit goes and does it perfectly, knocking my socks off. She's really starting to understand that my body language and verbal cues mean the same thing, no matter if I'm right next to her or 20' away. 4 more chances Q's will put us in elite! I'm quaking in my boots, cause those elite lines make you feel like you're in outer space.

And plenty of feedback in the new class, too. The new instructor has vowed to make me work on improving my front crosses.


----------



## kadylady

I have my first agility videos and I'm so happy!!! Tonight was our last class and we had "evaluations" to determine if we were allowed to move on to the next class. We worked on short sequences of 4 obstacles then moved up to the longest that we have done yet which was like 8 obstacles. That was a lot! Zoey did great! I did okay, lol, there is so much to think about and so little time to do it all in. We were having a little trouble with the tunnel tonight, she preferred to just jump over the entrance, but the instructor was great helping us go back to the beginning and showing me different things to try. And I'm sure it was mostly me trying to figure out where I should be too. Our next class will be Beginning Handling and I'm guessing will focus on obviously more handling skills. 











So proud of how far she has come in 8 weeks. We are having so much fun. I think that I may join the club where we are taking classes, I'm really loving being with all these dog people.


----------



## hamandeggs

Zoey looks GREAT! 

I signed up for a 3-week short course on weaves. Biscuit is like ALMOST THERE with the weaves. I can't do the next session of classes with this instructor anyway because of scheduling, so I think we'll either take a couple months off or switch instructors. But at least this way B will get some extra practice on the weaves. She's super comfortable on all the other contacts, so I think this will be fun.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Kady, it looks like Zoey is having a lot of fun!

Not sure if you're looking for feedback, but here it is anyway, take it or leave it:
In the second video, you have a very nice "break" from the table. Zoey is still lying down when the command is given, and she rises immediately and jumps off as soon as the command is given. This is what you want! However, in the first video, she is standing up and THEN you are giving the release cue. From the dog's perspective, you are "rewarding" the early break by allowing her to move on to the next obstacle. This problem is common and IMO contributes to troubles with dogs breaking start line stays, table stays, and contacts. Case in point: Zoey is standing up in expectation of the release in video 1. In the event of an early break, I would suggest starting over: if it's a start-line stay, then replace the dog in a sit-stay (it helps if you can do this from a distance, but not necessary). If it's breaking contact criteria (talking 2o2o here) or the table, then redo that piece of equipment. If it continues to happen even after the dog understands what is being asked, you can play "lose your turn", where the dog doesn't get to run. In other words, play by my rules, or we don't play at all. Above all, be consistent.

As an aside, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the "lose your turn" game with a dog that shuts down easily. I run an overconfident, headstrong dog who refuses to believe that any mistake is hers, so I resort to stricter methods than some people, just to get my point across. Regardless, though, consistency is key!


----------



## DJEtzel

Working with my Agility trainer now is a lot of fun. Frag got to be a "demo" dog at a dog-o-ween event here last weekend. Myself and another trainer worked the booth and both of our dogs along with two other agility student's dogs got to run a small course forwards and backwards and play around a bit/show off for the public while we talked about agility. Got a lot of positive remarks out of it, and a few dogs signed up for our agility skills classes this fall. Wish I could have gotten pictures of it.

Frag's gonna be taking the agility skills class this winter inside too. We're working really hard on his weaves, so we can start trialing in AKC. CPE is fun, but it is so far to travel from here to get to any CPE events that it's almost not worth it. I think now that I'm working fewer hours (weekends off!) and making decent money, I'll take him to a few CPE trials this winter and then switch to AKC agility unless CPE events start coming around here more. He's got the skills for it just fine, but between money for gas to drive 3 hours one way and the fact that my car wouldn't make it, it's just not too feasible right now.


----------



## LoMD13

Here is one of the longest sequences we've done to date. I'm going to enter her in Jumpers in a trial in a couple of weeks just for funsies.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

LOVE that little Lola dog <3

Haven't had much to update about, but here are a couple of runs from class today. Our trial last weekend in north Jersey was canceled due to Sandy (we got lucky where I was and only lost power for a few days/had minor damage compared to that area), so that's it for us for the year. Hoping to refine some skills and hopefully get out of Novice and right in to Open early next year.


----------



## kadylady

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Kady, it looks like Zoey is having a lot of fun!
> 
> Not sure if you're looking for feedback, but here it is anyway, take it or leave it:
> In the second video, you have a very nice "break" from the table. Zoey is still lying down when the command is given, and she rises immediately and jumps off as soon as the command is given. This is what you want! However, in the first video, she is standing up and THEN you are giving the release cue. From the dog's perspective, you are "rewarding" the early break by allowing her to move on to the next obstacle. This problem is common and IMO contributes to troubles with dogs breaking start line stays, table stays, and contacts. Case in point: Zoey is standing up in expectation of the release in video 1. In the event of an early break, I would suggest starting over: if it's a start-line stay, then replace the dog in a sit-stay (it helps if you can do this from a distance, but not necessary). If it's breaking contact criteria (talking 2o2o here) or the table, then redo that piece of equipment. If it continues to happen even after the dog understands what is being asked, you can play "lose your turn", where the dog doesn't get to run. In other words, play by my rules, or we don't play at all. Above all, be consistent.
> 
> As an aside, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the "lose your turn" game with a dog that shuts down easily. I run an overconfident, headstrong dog who refuses to believe that any mistake is hers, so I resort to stricter methods than some people, just to get my point across. Regardless, though, consistency is key!


Yes, definitely open to any feedback and yes she has a lot of fun! I think what happened at the table in the first video is that I said "break" but must have like choked on it or something cuz I hear myself say something and that's when she stood and was probably like WTF, then I said it clearly and she was like oh ok gotcha. Sometimes she is hesistant to break though and I think it may be because it's a new word? I only started using it in agility class and that's the only time I ever use it. I'm wondering if maybe I should start using it a little more? Or if it is better to save it for agility? 

One thing my instructor recommended was to try and build other types of reward with her other than just food, like with toys and tug. She's very food motivated but sometimes I think she gets a little too focused on the food. She will play tug with me every now and then but usually for a only a very short period of time, less than a minute, but she does like to tug with Luke and other dogs. Any suggestions on building to those other rewards would be appreciated. Our next class doesn't start until January and I'm already missing class every week!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Had another awesome class! Weaves are getting back to where they used to be, which is great. Still a bit slow and we need more work on the difficult entries again, but my DH is building me some weaves as a 3 year wedding anniversary present (AWESOME HUBBY!), so I'm hoping we will be able to actually start working at home again on them. Cold weather is also Kimma's friend BIG TIME, so I'm hoping to enter a lot of trials at the beginning of next year, then take it easy during the summer where she won't run quite as well due to the heat.

Here are a couple of videos from class tonight. The second one includes a bad 2o2o on the teeter (BOO!) and a should-have-been-a-front-cross-but-turned-in-to-a-sloppy-rear-cross towards the end:


----------



## LoMD13

I'm doing our first agility trial with the wee munchkin this weekend. We've entered Jumpers and (I don't know what I was thinking on this one) Snooker. If we don't completely embarrass ourselves I'll consider it a success!


----------



## mashlee08

Indie and I have been doing agility for a couple months now, she is super duper smart, gets the hang of the crosses so easy and is really starting to push on and want to go for it. *hoping* to trial with her sometime next year. Just need to minimise handler error


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Last night's class was fun and I definitely felt like we learning something. Unfortunately, Kit crashed a jump pretty badly on the first run. That's really unlike her - she rarely ever drops bars. She got up immediately and finished the course, and we ran two other courses before going home. But a couple hours after getting home, I realized that she was trembling a little, and when I made her get up, she was tucking her tail, both sure signs that she's in pain. I was convinced that she had pulled a muscle until I flipped her over and discovered that she had skinned the flap of skin that connects body to back leg (in the "tuck"). It looked red and she didn't want me to touch it. She was moving a little slow, too. I'm guessing that her front feet knocked the bar and it (or maybe the bar settings on the stanchion) caught that skin flap.

She seems mostly better today. The area looks like it's healing, and I see no sign of infection, it just seems kinda hardened. She was ok with me touching it tonight, and I'm trying to stretch and massage both back legs a couple times a day. She's acting close to normal, but still a little slow, maybe. We skipped both walks today (she wasn't happy about that), but we'll try to get back to normal tomorrow. Hopefully if we take it easy for a couple of days, she'll be fine.


----------



## Kyllobernese

This Saturday is our last Foundation Agility Class with Lucy and Advanced Agility with Remmy. We have done all the equipment now with Lucy and she has the 2o2o really solid. When we are practicing at home I will not be paying attention to her and turn around and she is standing at the end of the dog walk with 2o2o or if I do not keep her moving right along the teeter, she will turn around and do the 2o2o on the end of the teeter on the ground.

When we are waiting our turn to go over the equipment (still only doing one piece at a time, no sequences yet) she is pulling on the lead to have her turn. Really made sure she had an automatic down on the table as have noticed how many dogs have a problem with that. They will get on the table but then not want to lie down. Have really enjoyed starting at the beginning with Lucy as I did not have the opportunity with Remmy to do the foundation work yet he has done so well as he is very smart.

Have started to get my handling of Remmy at a better level which should help next year. Have both of them entered in another class starting the 5th of January. The indoor arena is not heated so a lot will depend on the weather, will have to cancel if it gets 10 below zero or more.


----------



## LoMD13

Just got back from our first ever trial! We entered Snooker and Jumpers. She did very well in Snooker and got first place in our height class (And 3rd overall amongst all the height classes)






Not pretty but we got the job done! 

Jumpers was less than impressive. She had pretty much just mentally checked out by that point, and she was just barely motivated enough to do it, and decided she had to go visit the judge at one point-- so though she finished and didn't fault, our time was pretty bad and it was a NQ


----------



## LoMD13

I've also started to put a lot of focus on "Out" and "go" since the trial. Her major problem at the trial seemed to be a lack of confidence and checking out (She used to go very slow until she gained confidence in what we were doing--at the trial she kinda reverted back to that speed). But I think in general getting more distance should help a lot.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

What a fantastic class we had tonight! Kit's little scrape from last week is all healed, so we could participate. 

One thing my new instructor has me doing is this: Kit's contacts are pretty darn solid (she's NEVER been faulted in a trial!), but sometimes I early release for various reasons. Even when I do, she still hits solidly in the yellow, it just turns into a running contact. The new instructor wants me to proof the 2o2o more in class. Fine with me, if he doesn't think we can do it, then I'll just have to prove that we can (for some reason, this sort of thinking is highly motivating to me). So...lately I've been skipping the verbal command and relying on Kit to just do it (in other words, teaching her that 2o2o is HER responsibility, not mine). In addition, sometimes I proof it by running right past her, even accelerating as I go, and once I left the building entirely and left her in 2o2o. She was nailing all of this tonight. 

We also got to work on some distance (including weaves from a distance) with layering. Also nailed that. I LOVE it when I think something is right on the edge of our comfort zone and then we nail it.

And we worked on threadles and the timing of commands near hoops. I often anticipate the next move, which pulls Kit off a hoop at the last second. Hard to explain, but we worked on that tonight and had some success.

We're trialing all weekend this weekend, and this trial is the 2 year anniversary of Kit's debut. So hard to believe it's only been 2 years!!! We'll see about trialing next weekend - maybe one day. The next goal to be met is that we're getting awfully close to being in Elite in everything. Just one more Chances Q and one more Jumpers Q to go. In Regular, we're more than half way to a NATCH now!


----------



## LoMD13

Good luck this weekend, Kit! 

We had a very nice class this week too.We worked on Serpentines and "Come to side" after a jump.I was glad to see that her speed and confidence was back up, as she had slowed way down at the trial.


----------



## hamandeggs

Glad it's going so well, LoMD and GLM!!

I'm having a bit of frustration. Not with classes - B is doing great. But with hardware stores! I've been trying to build some PVC weave poles. I spent all day last Saturday trying to buy the pipes and fixings, but I went to three hardware stores, including Home Depot, and I couldn't find the right kind of stupid elbows that connect the pipes. So I ordered some online. And of course, when they arrived yesterday, it turned out that 3/4" at Home Depot isn't the same as 3/4" at US Plastics, so of course nothing fits. SO FRUSTRATING. Any suggestions? Is Lowe's better than Home Depot for this?


----------



## Kyllobernese

Finished our classes last Saturday. Did a sequence with Lucy, chute, two jumps and the tunnel. The first time she did great till she got to the tunnel. I am so used to Remmy automatically going through the tunnel that I ended up pulling Lucy away from the tunnel mouth. Once I supported her right into the tunnel she did it perfectly. She was very fast so I am going to have to start running faster.

Remmy's class had two combinations which we had to send them out to, one was two jumps and a tunnel, and the other was the tunnel mouth and dog walk alongside each other. Remmy got both of them correct and we did sending them to the tunnel mouth the first time, then ran the course again sending them up the dog walk. The is a common combination in trials and one that catches a lot of dogs out. Made me realize how much my body position made the difference which one I wanted him to take.


----------



## tuckersmom20

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted on this forum in a very long time.. But noticed it has an active agility community.. Which has been hard to find!

I live in Ontario Canada, just started private agility classes with my black lab Tucker.
He's 70 lbs.. Built out of pure muscle.. A few extra pounds at the moment (due to a thyroid that stopped working).
Tuck is a Dockdog, has been for 3 years and this winter I wanted to find something for him to do.. Many of our DR teammates do agility.. So I figured why not!

Last week at his first ever lesson... He loved it! He's taking to this easier than dockdogs!
The first obstacle he tried was the tunnel.. At first he cried and stood there trying to figure it out.. I was at the exit end of the tunnel.. Our instructor asked me to call his name.. He cried once and bolted through the tunnel!
Of course then he spotted the blue tunnel across the room and bolted for it !
I have a tunnel monster.

Our instructor then got us started on figure 8's with the jumps... No actual jumping, but tuck and I learning how to wrap around a jump.
He picked it up very quickly... Me, his mom... Needs to stop luring.
I also have a habit of bending over to treat him... He's 23" at the withers... Need to stop, he can reach me when I'm standing.

Unfortunately now his trainer is on break until new year  so i bought some PVC piping today.. And am having the hardest finding elbows and fittings!
But over the Christmas holiday we'll be working on jumps, stays and down stays (something tuck finds optional).
Thanks!


----------



## agility collie mom

Here's a link for pvc fittings I don't know if they ship to Canada but their selection and prices are the best that I have found. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=555&parentcatid=690


----------



## hamandeggs

agility collie mom said:


> Here's a link for pvc fittings I don't know if they ship to Canada but their selection and prices are the best that I have found. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=555&parentcatid=690


That is where I ordered from! And their 3/4" fittings don't fit the 3/4" inch pipe from the hardware store! They seem like a good company, but beware! Argh.


----------



## LoMD13

tuckersmom20 said:


> I also have a habit of bending over to treat him... He's 23" at the withers... Need to stop, he can reach me when I'm standing.


That's the ONE thing that drives me nuts about the littles. My girl measures 9 inches at the withers, so I was really glad when we got to the point where we arn't treating all the time!!


----------



## agility collie mom

hamandeggs said:


> That is where I ordered from! And their 3/4" fittings don't fit the 3/4" inch pipe from the hardware store! They seem like a good company, but beware! Argh.


I have ordered a lot of fittings from this company. Sometimes they are out of round. If you file the edge of your pipe a little on an angle and push hard they will go in. I made about thirty jumps, dogwalk stands and fencing for my club. Also their is two types of pipe schedule 40 which is thick walled and drinking grade which is thin walled.


----------



## agility collie mom

LoMD13 said:


> That's the ONE thing that drives me nuts about the littles. My girl measures 9 inches at the withers, so I was really glad when we got to the point where we arn't treating all the time!!


Yep! I run rough collies at 24" and maltese at 8". Tough on the back and I worry about squishing the little ones!!!


----------



## hamandeggs

agility collie mom said:


> I have ordered a lot of fittings from this company. Sometimes they are out of round. If you file the edge of your pipe a little on an angle and push hard they will go in. I made about thirty jumps, dogwalk stands and fencing for my club. Also their is two types of pipe schedule 40 which is thick walled and drinking grade which is thin walled.


No, the fittings they sent me just don't fit whatsoever. They're basically the same diameter as my pipe, no amount of filing will fix it. They listed the diameter wrong on the website, or maybe I misunderstood the listing. I got the fittings listed as "furniture grade" but my pipe is hardware grade - maybe they are measured differently and I didn't realize it? I knew this might happen ordering online, but the listing sounded right and I could not find the 3-way and 4-way elbow fittings anywhere near where I live. This has been abundantly frustrating.


----------



## agility collie mom

hamandeggs said:


> No, the fittings they sent me just don't fit whatsoever. They're basically the same diameter as my pipe, no amount of filing will fix it. They listed the diameter wrong on the website, or maybe I misunderstood the listing. I got the fittings listed as "furniture grade" but my pipe is hardware grade - maybe they are measured differently and I didn't realize it? I knew this might happen ordering online, but the listing sounded right and I could not find the 3-way and 4-way elbow fittings anywhere near where I live. This has been abundantly frustrating.


I would contact the company. I used pvc bought at Lowe's which was not furniture grade. I bought 1" for teacup jumps and 1 1/4" for regular. Did you try taking the fittings with you to the hardware store? You could try it on the pipe there and see if they fit anything. Sorry to hear that you had problems with the fittings. Wish you luck.


----------



## hamandeggs

agility collie mom said:


> I would contact the company. I used pvc bought at Lowe's which was not furniture grade. I bought 1" for teacup jumps and 1 1/4" for regular. Did you try taking the fittings with you to the hardware store? You could try it on the pipe there and see if they fit anything. Sorry to hear that you had problems with the fittings. Wish you luck.


I had already spent like $35 on the pipe so I didn't want to buy all new pipe to fit the fittings, you know? I have 3/4" pipe which is 3/4" inside diameter and 1" on the outside, pretty standard. The 3/4" fittings at US plastic are "copper tube size" which is actually 7/8", which would be a useful thing to have on the website. The hardware store's 3/4" fittings all fit my 3/4" pipe, but of course they don't have the right types of fittings. I will say, I did contact the company and they just gave me my money back. I would recommend calling, not ordering online - if I had done that I bet they would have helped me get the right thing (if they sell it). I'm going to try Lowe's this weekend - my agility instructor said they're better than Home Depot. I was surprised than of the seemingly thousands of fittings they sell at HD, none were the ones I needed. Life is never easy is it?


----------



## agility collie mom

As far as I know none of the big box store sell the 5-way fitting and the 4-ways and 3-ways are shaped wrong. I buy my pipe from Lowes because they carry silver line and the lettering comes off much easier than hd stuff.


----------



## hamandeggs

agility collie mom said:


> As far as I know none of the big box store sell the 5-way fitting and the 4-ways and 3-ways are shaped wrong. I buy my pipe from Lowes because they carry silver line and the lettering comes off much easier than hd stuff.


Yeah, the 4-ways and 3-ways at HD were shaped wrong. Of course I didn't notice the first time and had to make a return trip to HD. I couldn't find the right thing at True Value or Ace Hardware either. I really just need the 4-ways, I guess. What do you use the 5-ways for?

Update: I just ordered 3/4" fittings (which will allegedly fit hardware-grade pipe that is 3/4" inside diameter/1" outside diameter) from www.formufit.com. We shall see if they fit. 

I called US Plastic and they told me that the fittings I want don't exist, so those who are buying pipe from the hardware store and want to get the fittings from US Plastic should get 1" pipe (I think they have fittings in that size). Very annoying.

I also called Lowe's, two plumbing supply stores, and an industrial plastic distributor this morning, trying to buy this locally. Who knew that finding stupid pieces of plastic would be so annoying??


----------



## DJEtzel

I love bowwowflix and having a complete set of agility equipment at my disposal for puppy training.


----------



## hamandeggs

DJEtzel said:


> I love bowwowflix and having a complete set of agility equipment at my disposal for puppy training.


...congratulations. Those of us work in office jobs are envious.


----------



## agility collie mom

You can try on e-bay too. Sometimes have box lots of them. I found that the 5 ways are more stable in my yard. Made the feet bigger 
(8" rather than the 4" that I made for the club which of course has a level floor.) here is another site that has fittings and other cool stuff. http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/pvc.shtml


----------



## agility collie mom

DJEtzel said:


> I love bowwowflix and having a complete set of agility equipment at my disposal for puppy training.


I have access to the building where I teach and train. But I like to train out in my yard too when the weather is nice!


----------



## DJEtzel

agility collie mom said:


> I have access to the building where I teach and train. But I like to train out in my yard too when the weather is nice!


I'm definitely putting together some equipment in the spring for my yard once we plant grass. Until then, it's nice to set up tunnels and jumps and wobble boards in the office while I'm working.  and BowWowFlix is the best thing since sliced bread. I watched on the flat screen in our office while working with my pup all at the same time!


----------



## tuckersmom20

LoMD13 said:


> That's the ONE thing that drives me nuts about the littles. My girl measures 9 inches at the withers, so I was really glad when we got to the point where we arn't treating all the time!!


I'll be happy too when we get to the non treat stage...

I've always leaned over to treat. Tuck is very food motivated, so it helps in the beginning stages... But will have to use treats until his focus is more on me then when the next treat is


----------



## LoMD13

I just got pipes from home depot and attached a long thick nail to them so we can just poke them in the grass. It's not beautiful but it's enough for us.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

I will have to go out tomorrow and take pics of the weaves we built a couple of weeks ago. I didn't glue them all the way so that I can use them for 2x2 training as well. Total cost of the project was something like $30 and that was including buying the pipe cutting tool, the pipe glue, pipe, all connectors/end caps, and I think tape (I had some already so I didn't need to buy more). The pipe I used was 3/4" schedule 40. Found it all at Home Depot.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

DJEtzel said:


> having a complete set of agility equipment at my disposal for puppy training.


My yard is flooded for a decent 4-6 months a year, and is at least somewhat wet for 9 months a year, so I train exclusively at an agility barn, the same one where we have classes and occasional trials. It's a bit on the small side, but the equipment is fantastic. For a small fee ($5) I can go practice on my own any time when classes aren't being taught. For me, that mostly means weekends, since I work days and classes are taught weeknights. But I often have the place to myself when I go practice on weekends. It's a bit of a drive, but definitely worth it. 

I also don't practice *that* much, outside of class. Maybe once a month, if I'm lucky. Kit picks up stuff very quickly, so drilling stuff on a daily basis just isn't necessary most of the time.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Here are some pics of the weaves I built. You can see the legs going to the right/left come a bit BEFORE the poles. That's how you avoid needing a crazy connector that is difficult to find and/or doesn't exist.




























For 2x2 use:









Kimma tested, Kimma approved:


----------



## agility collie mom

Nice job on the weave poles! I built channel weaves for Savannah by the time she was finished learning to weave she destroyed them. She hits them so fast and so hard that they just didn't have a chance! But they were great for what I needed them for.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

We were 4 for 5 today. I sort of had my heart set on a perfect weekend, but oh well. The joy is in stepping to the line with a fantastic partner, not in the Q's.


----------



## DJEtzel

My boyfriend is awesome. He's buying me chute and PVC/tape for jumps for Christmas. He wanted to buy me a teeter, then realized they were a little expensive! But the beginning of my backyard agility course is coming!


----------



## LoMD13

GottaLuvMutts said:


> We were 4 for 5 today. I sort of had my heart set on a perfect weekend, but oh well. The joy is in stepping to the line with a fantastic partner, not in the Q's.


Excellent job!!!! 4/5 is something to be pretty proud of. Our next trial is in February- just have to work on getting her speed up. It's there in practice but was very absent for our first trial.


----------



## tuckersmom20

Built our PVC jumps this afternoon..

Ok boyfriend built and i helped, needless to say they dont look as good as your Finkie!

I may change mine, i used end caps as holders for the post that goes across, and i just dont like it.
Might end up doing T's and cutting pieces to match requirements.

Btw, what are the jump heights when building the jumps? Tuck is 22.5' at the withers, but ideally i want to start him low and build him up.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

5 for 5 today and another small brag:

I was scorekeeping all weekend, so I got to see and input everyone's times and faults. We started off today with back-to-back touch-N-go (TNG) runs. As I was inputting scores, I realized that in one of the TNG runs, Kit had the fastest (clean) run of anyone at the whole trial!!! That includes several national champions, judges dogs, people who've been doing this for decades, screaming fast BC's, everyone. Such a good girl!


----------



## Canyx

CONGRATSSS!!!!
Any video footage of this accomplishment?


----------



## Finkie_Mom

You guys are doing AWESOME, GLM!!! I second the desire to see more videos of you and Kit 

Just a quick video from class tonight... She saved me after the chute LOL. Her weaves are STILL slower than they used to be, but we're working on them at home a bit (I don't want to overdo it), and I'm hoping that she will continue to get her speed back. I may ask if the courses next week don't overlap if I can just do some quick weave work (the ones today did with the weaves so that would have been a no-go). Her wraps are also iffy (she had a REALLY bad one on the other course, but DH was busy shooting stills of that one versus video so I didn't get to really go over what I/she did wrong), so that's something else we will work on a bit at home.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Canyx said:


> CONGRATSSS!!!!
> Any video footage of this accomplishment?


No, sorry, no video. I think we're trialing one day this weekend (regular, jumpers, and weavers), so I'll see if I can get someone to film me. Come to think of it, class would be a good option too. The instructor sets up some really challenging stuff for us.


----------



## DJEtzel

Couple of videos of Recon from today. I introduced two bars on jumps to see how he'd react, we don't typically jump and aren't making any habits out of it. Just to get the idea. And the tunnel; he's loved that since he was 7 weeks old, and after a few sends he'll go through just fine without any toys present, but it's been a while so I kept it fun and rewarding for him, working a lot on sending out and driving through obstacles. He's 2o2o is coming along FANTASTICALLY, I'll have to get a video of him on his plank soon. 

http://www.facebook.com/v/10151180378707705

http://www.facebook.com/v/10151180492797705


----------



## Canyx

Recon is doing great! The look on him just screams: "Ladeedaaa, this is too easy, raise the poles why doncha? Ooo toy!"


----------



## Pammy

Hi agility peeps. I am new to the forum and somewhat new to agility. Jazz my 2 1/2 yr old Aussie and I have been at it since he was about 8 months old. He trials in CPE and ASCA in Western Pa and Ohio so far. Our newest teammate is Willow a border collie mix rescue puppy who is now 14 months old and LOVES agility! We train weekly in a large indoor facilty in Ohio and Jazz trials about 1 x month. Looking forward to learning new things and possibly sharing lessons learned so far.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Welcome! 

It will be fun to have more voices on this thread! Agility is wonderful! Pictures?


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Welcome Pammy! Any pics or videos you'd like to share?

I trialed today, but was a bit disappointed. We tried for 2 chances Q's and came up empty handed. I just need one more for the open superior versatility title! We did manage a TNG Q, a tunnelers Q, and a regular Q, though. Days like this remind me that I'm running for the fun of it, not the Q's. As long as Kit and I are still having fun (and we are), we'll keep trying.


----------



## Pammy

Still learning how to navigate the site, but future pics to come. It is always a little disappointing to lose the Q but fun to be with our furry friends anyway. Our last trial we did pretty good but I lost one Q by 1.3 seconds that was due to my little habit of hand flicking.....uuuggg. But Jazz didnt care he came out of the wrong end of the tunnel with the same happy face as if he went into the right end! LOL.


----------



## Pammy

Wiilow and Jazz getting some snow play in last week.


----------



## DJEtzel

Thanks Canyx! I'm sure he'd love it if I encouraged jumping more; he's like a kangaroo and it's all I can do to keep his butt on the ground once someone bends over to pet him. 

Recon and Frag both have agility classes starting Wednesday night; we're very excited for it! I just got Frag back after a month and he needs to brush up on a lot of stuff before our trial at the end of the month!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our last Agility class in 2012, we did a sequence of chute, jump and tunnel and Lucy did well. The first time she missed the tunnel mouth but that was because I did not start her into the tunnel before I moved away, used to Remmy just automatically going in. Once I did it right she did it perfectly.

We started our first class this year, last Saturday. We concentrated on the channel weaves, then we had three jumps and did front and rear crosses. It was the first time we have made them sit and stay in front of jumps so took a bit to get her to remember what a stay was. There are only four dogs, Lucy and my sister with Liza (Lucy's sister) and a Doberman and a collie cross. I was glad the two dogs that were so aggressive did not come back.

In Remmy's class there was just him, my sister with Mikey, a Papillon, a Miniature Poodle and the Instructors Flat Coated Retriever. We practiced front and rear crosses and the Weave Poles and into a tunnel, sending them ahead of us. Don't try and run with heavy winter boots on, I tried to outrun Remmy and did a face plant. Didn't hurt myself but hate when that happens. It was just below zero, in an unheated arena so hard to put running shoes on.

Looking forward to next Saturday. By the time we set up the equipment, practice, then put the equipment away, we are there for three hours.


----------



## kadylady

Starting my second 8 week class with Zoey next Tuesday night and I can't wait! I pulled my jump out outside this weekend and did a little practicing after having a couple weeks off and oh boy was she thrilled!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Woke up to 26 below temperature (-10F) so had to cancel our Agility classes in our indoor unheated arena. It will be added on to the end of our classes so they will run for an extra week. Really look forward to our classes but agree it would have been too cold.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Cold here too, today. Around 25F I think, which is about as cold as it gets here. 

We had 6 runs at a trial today and got 5 Q's including the very last chances Q I needed for the Open Superior Versatility title! That means from here on out, it's all elite!


----------



## Sibe

Congrats!!!

I can't wait for class next Tuesday. We only have two classes before our trial on the 27th. Only entered in Open JWW (AKC). I'll be doing what I can at home with a couple jumps and weaves.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Congratulations on your five Q's. Our first trials will not be till March, can hardly wait. Lucy will not be 18 months till August so have to wait a while before I can start trialing her but can concentrate on Remmy till then.


----------



## DJEtzel

Frag and I are trialing next weekend in Grand Rapids... hoping to finish up our cpe 1 title, but it's probably not going to happen. I've only had him back for a week from my ex and we've been to one night of agility that went OK, but we need more practice and we can't make it this week because of a small-business event. We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Sibe

Class tonight was canceled because it was too cold. Hopefully class next week won't be canceled too, I'd like to do at least one class before our trial since we haven't done anything in about a month. Looks like I'll be taking a few jumps and my weaves to the park to practice what I can!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Sibe said:


> Class tonight was canceled because it was too cold. Hopefully class next week won't be canceled too, I'd like to do at least one class before our trial since we haven't done anything in about a month. Looks like I'll be taking a few jumps and my weaves to the park to practice what I can!


It's too cold in SanDiego???? No one told the dogs around here. The agility barn where I take classes and all the trial venues here are unheated. It's been in the twenties for the past week or two, and no one has said boo about cancelling class. The only thing that might cause that is heavy snow, very heavy fog, or flooding, which would prevent people from making the drive safely.


----------



## Sibe

San Diegans aren't used to cold at all. I would have been fine running around (I'm from Colorado). It's been in the low 30s at night here. It actually does get cold, not as cold as other places but cold enough to be frosty and icy. Last weekend a trial was delayed I guess because the field was a sheet of ice.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our Agility class was cancelled last Saturday as it was -26 in the morning and our arena is unheated. It has warmed up a little since so hopefully we will be able to practice this coming Saturday.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey and I had our first class of our second session last night. It was mostly a review from the previous session and a chance for the instructors to see where the group is at as these are different instructors from the previously class. I was really proud of Zoey because we hadn't had a whole lot of practice over the 2 month break and she seemed to pick up right where we left off. I'm strongly considering joining the club where we are doing the classes. I was talking with one of the instructors last night and they have a point system that they use to accept new members, where you have to earn so many point in order to join the club and then I think you have to earn a certain number of points to maintain your membership as well. They have a trail coming up the end of February and working the trials is the biggest way to earn points so I'm thinking that I will try and help out with that and see what the trails are like as I have not been to one yet and then see where Zoey and I are going with all of this agility stuff. Right now I know that she loves it and I am really having fun with it!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

kadylady said:


> Zoey and I had our first class of our second session last night. It was mostly a review from the previous session and a chance for the instructors to see where the group is at as these are different instructors from the previously class. I was really proud of Zoey because we hadn't had a whole lot of practice over the 2 month break and she seemed to pick up right where we left off. I'm strongly considering joining the club where we are doing the classes. I was talking with one of the instructors last night and they have a point system that they use to accept new members, where you have to earn so many point in order to join the club and then I think you have to earn a certain number of points to maintain your membership as well. They have a trail coming up the end of February and working the trials is the biggest way to earn points so I'm thinking that I will try and help out with that and see what the trails are like as I have not been to one yet and then see where Zoey and I are going with all of this agility stuff. Right now I know that she loves it and I am really having fun with it!


Attending trials is a fantastic way to learn more about the sport and meet a ton of people. I helped out at trials for almost a year before entering, and by the time I actually entered, it wasn't scary anymore. 

Awesome class tonight! Tough courses, but we did them well. I'm so lucky to have a dog who delights in doing whatever I ask, an instructor who can provide a challenge week after week, a community of avid agility enthusiasts for support, and a nearby facility stocked with the best equipment. Kit's fast asleep now: I love those post-agility Z's.


----------



## kadylady

I have a question that I meant to add to my last post and forgot. We started introducing 2o2o at my class and the instructor mentioned that we should name it. What does everyone name that (if you name it)? I'm kind of struggling with what I should name things.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

kadylady said:


> I have a question that I meant to add to my last post and forgot. We started introducing 2o2o at my class and the instructor mentioned that we should name it. What does everyone name that (if you name it)? I'm kind of struggling with what I should name things.


I've heard people call it "pause" (or maybe it's "paws"?), "touch", "hit it", "mark it", "target", etc. My word is "toto", which stands for 2o2o. I actually don't like the word anymore because it sounds too much like "tunnel", and also because I feel silly saying it. 

The easiest way to train 2o2o is with a target plate - is that what you're doing? A couple of things to keep in mind: 
1) You can name it while you're training it, but eventually you'll probably want to fade the verbal cue. It is the dog's responsibility to perform the behavior properly, not your responsibility to babysit it every time.
2) 2o2o means having the front two feet on the ground and the back two on the contact equipment. Therefore, the line that separates the contact zone from the rest of the obstacle should mean absolutely nothing to you or your dog. It's there for the judge only. I can't tell you how often I see dogs at trials who inch toward the contact zone ever-so-slowly and the second they get a toenail in it, their handler releases. Dogs learn this game quickly and it becomes a huge time sink. Better to teach 2o2o and never even make the judge think twice about faulting your contact.


----------



## Sibe

I say "Feet" for 2o/2o. Most people I've heard say "Touch" but mine know that as Targeting, like to bump my hand with their nose, so that was out. "Feet" doesn't sound like anything else either. I like 2o/2o because I think it sets a solid contact and also helps the dog drive to the bottom.

I practice at home on ours stairs.


----------



## DJEtzel

I call it feet as well


----------



## DJEtzel

No Q in standard, but a second place for time. He bailed off the dog walk.  GREAT run otherwise... 29 seconds despite that. One round of snooker that I'm not counting on. Haha.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I just did a running contact with Remmy and it worked out fine but with Lucy, I wanted to try the 2o2o. I also had never tried clicker training. Well, the combination worked great. She loves doing the 2o2o and is very steady on it. I used "touch" when I first started but I am sure that I will eventually not have to say anything. She has only had her first six Foundation Agility classes and is starting on her second ones so it is early times yet. Until I started doing it with Lucy, I never realized how much time it gives you to catch up and get ahead of the dog.


----------



## DJEtzel

Snooker went great until I lost my place and Frag hesitated mid-jump, dropping a bar at 23 points. Kicking myself for it.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our second class this year for Foundation Agility. We had a sequence of jump, A-frame and tunnel. Lucy did well but had trouble maintaining her 2o2o on the A-frame as she came down it too fast. She would correct herself but apparently that is not good because if she did it in a trial, she would not Q. I know trialing is a while in the future but it is not a good habit to get into. She has no problem with the 2o2o on the teeter and dog walk but it is not as steep so will have to work on a steeper board at home. I have to train in the house as there is too much snow to use our regular equipment outside. She did well on the channel weaves and has a good automatic down on the table and stays till I release her. We even got a little bit of a wiggle on the channel weaves and she did not duck out once. Really pleased with the way she is training.


----------



## DJEtzel

Kyllobernese said:


> Had our second class this year for Foundation Agility. We had a sequence of jump, A-frame and tunnel. Lucy did well but had trouble maintaining her 2o2o on the A-frame as she came down it too fast. She would correct herself but apparently that is not good because if she did it in a trial, she would not Q. I know trialing is a while in the future but it is not a good habit to get into. She has no problem with the 2o2o on the teeter and dog walk but it is not as steep so will have to work on a steeper board at home. I have to train in the house as there is too much snow to use our regular equipment outside. She did well on the channel weaves and has a good automatic down on the table and stays till I release her. We even got a little bit of a wiggle on the channel weaves and she did not duck out once. Really pleased with the way she is training.


Why can't she correct herself? Why wouldn't she Q? How is she correcting herself...?


----------



## Kyllobernese

When Lucy comes down the A-frame and does not stop with her back feet on the A-frame and her front feet on the ground, then backs up and puts her back feet on the A-frame, that is considered a fault and in AAC Agility one fault and you do not Q. If she misses the 2o2o and continues on to the next obstacle, that is okay as you can do running contacts so would not be a fault.

When she misses the 2o2o, the instructor wants me to do it over or pick her up and place her on the A-frame to come down again but not let her correct herself. I never had a problem doing running contacts with Remmy so I would much rather carry on as the main thing is that she hits the contact on the way down the A-frame, the 2o2o is just something I wanted to try this time with my dog and she does it perfectly on the Dog Walk and Teeter which are not as steep as the A-frame.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

I've been a bad forum member - dealing with some personal stuff (BLAH)... But I did want to post a short video of Kimma from class tonight - first time running her since my foot surgery! She was HAPPY to get out there LOL.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgwG8fArntI

We have our next trial in 2 weeks! I'm hoping that we can pull out both novice titles (she needs one more leg each for standard and jumpers), but I'm not holding my breath 

(Though some "good agility trial" thoughts would be greatly appreciated in any case )


----------



## Sibe

Class tonight was awesome, so proud of my girlie. We've done absolutely no agility training in about 2 months. Put her on the line and she ran great! She hit all her contacts perfectly which I loved since we'd worked so hard on the A-frame contact toward the end of last year. She kept blowing it and it took a while to get her 2o/2o back but she really has it again.

I've found a great reward for her is to let her go crazy and run around after a run. After we finish I tell her to go get the bunnies which are always on the other side of the fence. The field we train at is really big and we only use half of it, so she can run around all excited on the other half no problem. After she runs around for a minute I take her to the hose and let her bite the water and get a drink. She loves it. We're far enough away from the equipment she doesn't distract the dog that goes after us. Agility dogs tend to be pretty good about ignoring whatever else is going on anyway but I don't want to be a distraction! 

Trial on Sunday.


----------



## kadylady

Good luck on Sunday Sibe!

Class last night was great again. Before class when I was practicing during the week I was struggling with how I was supposed to be practicing the 2o2o at home but after applying it to some of the obstacles last night I think it clicked more for me. We will see this week I guess! I feel like in class Zoey is so much farther ahead of me as far as what we are learning. I'm trying to remember 100 things and she's just like "come on I got this" lol 

We made some good progress on the teeter last night. So far there as always been someone holding the other end of it but last night we faded that out (it's not full height) and Zoey did really great. At this point she prefers to sit on the end of the teeter rather than stay in 2o2o, but I suspect that is because this 2o2o is pretty new still, as is the teeter itself? She did it really well at the A-frame.

We also measured her last night with the "official" measuring thing and she measured 15 7/8". Apparently I did a horrible job with the tape measure because I had her at 20" (in my defense she was uncooperative and I was by myself). I think the instructors said her job height would be 16" for AKC? I don't know much about the different venues yet, we are a long way off from that! But I am definitely going to help out with the club's trial at the end of Feb.


----------



## RabbleFox

I just joined the forums but this isn't our first time doing agility! Pepper and I have been training since early November. He is a 10 year old full blooded Australian Shepherd who is getting ready for his first trial in early March. We started training in our backyard with homemade jumps, a homemade tire jump, and a tunnel that we got for cheaps at Toys R' Us (we can't really afford to be spending $90 on a tunnel...). Since then, I've built us a teeter and have started Beginner's agility classes earlier this January. Pepper has been such a good boy. He has the energy of a younger dog but the focus of an older, wiser dog.

Here we are at this week's training session, 3rd week in class:






We are actually really good at the teeter but the rest of the class isn't there yet. Pep can do the full teeter at a low height. I'm moving him up to the dogwalk and A-frame tomorrow (low heights for now). Are there any tricks/tips for training the dogwalk and A-frame?


----------



## DJEtzel

RabbleFox said:


> I just joined the forums but this isn't our first time doing agility! Pepper and I have been training since early November. He is a 10 year old full blooded Australian Shepherd who is getting ready for his first trial in early March. We started training in our backyard with homemade jumps, a homemade tire jump, and a tunnel that we got for cheaps at Toys R' Us (we can't really afford to be spending $90 on a tunnel...). Since then, I've built us a teeter and have started Beginner's agility classes earlier this January. Pepper has been such a good boy. He has the energy of a younger dog but the focus of an older, wiser dog.
> 
> Here we are at this week's training session, 3rd week in class:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are actually really good at the teeter but the rest of the class isn't there yet. Pep can do the full teeter at a low height. I'm moving him up to the dogwalk and A-frame tomorrow (low heights for now). Are there any tricks/tips for training the dogwalk and A-frame?


Awesome video! Pepper looked great!


----------



## RabbleFox

Thanks! He is such a good boy. I don't want to push him too hard but we need to get our weaves down (currently working through the channel), the dogwalk, and the A-frame. We've got a month and a little bit before our trial. I mailed out our premium today. I'm super excited and super nervous for our first trial! I also can't get open floor time until Saturday so tomorrow we will have to do our work in the freezing cold backyard. Bleh...


----------



## DJEtzel

RabbleFox said:


> Thanks! He is such a good boy. I don't want to push him too hard but we need to get our weaves down (currently working through the channel), the dogwalk, and the A-frame. We've got a month and a little bit before our trial. I mailed out our premium today. I'm super excited and super nervous for our first trial! I also can't get open floor time until Saturday so tomorrow we will have to do our work in the freezing cold backyard. Bleh...


Where are you trialing/what venue? Good luck getting it all ironed out, sounds like he hasn't been training for too long so go easy on him.


----------



## RabbleFox

We will be doing an AKC All-Breed Agility Trial held by the Sportmen's Dog Training of Detroit. It will be held at All Dogs Can LLC in Lapeer. 

Don't worry! I won't go too hard on him. As our first trial, it will be more of a practice trial. If we do super well, great. If not, its great practice. We went to the Michigan Winter Classic Dog Show to do the "My Dog Can Do That!" demonstration earlier this month. It was below his level of training but it was good to get him exposed to the "dog show experience".


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Class tonight was a bunch of relatively short courses with complex bits. It was fun to think up my own way of running each one, and then watch other people's strategies before my turn came. A grumpy/rude classmate ruined my agility high, though, and Kit noticed my mood change.


----------



## Sibe

Finkie_Mom said:


> I've been a bad forum member - dealing with some personal stuff (BLAH)... But I did want to post a short video of Kimma from class tonight - first time running her since my foot surgery! She was HAPPY to get out there LOL.
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgwG8fArntI
> 
> We have our next trial in 2 weeks! I'm hoping that we can pull out both novice titles (she needs one more leg each for standard and jumpers), but I'm not holding my breath
> 
> (Though some "good agility trial" thoughts would be greatly appreciated in any case )


She's looking so good!! The table seemed rushed, and like she anticipated the release. She looked like she moved before you cued her to jump off. Maybe just a fluke, but keep an eye on it. No fun to have a dog bouncing off the table a split second too soon!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Sibe said:


> She's looking so good!! The table seemed rushed, and like she anticipated the release. She looked like she moved before you cued her to jump off. Maybe just a fluke, but keep an eye on it. No fun to have a dog bouncing off the table a split second too soon!


Nah, I cued her off. My instructor was talking to someone else and wasn't counting, and in watching the video again, I apparently count fast haha. Plus I was cold and wanted to just be done


----------



## Sibe

Gotcha. Very fast count  lol


----------



## Kyllobernese

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saturday was our third class this year in Foundation Agility. (had six classes last year) Had a really good class today. We set up a full course with jumps, dog walk, table, tunnel, teeter, tire, so all obstacles but the A-frame and weaves. We did 6 obstacles, then the other 6, then combined all 12. Lucy ran them perfectly, doing her 2o2o on both the dog walk and teeter and since I kept running to the next obstacle she did her "touch" and went on to the next obstacle when I told her to. The last run she even sent out to the tunnel so I did not have to run as far but she sure kept me going. I am really going to have to work at keeping up with her.

Remmy is doing good too and is starting to pay more attention to where I am sending him now that I am giving him the right signals. We are all having a lot of fun.


----------



## Sibe

Almost got our Q today. Almost! After the first 2 jumps she spazzed and had some butt-scootin' zoomies but fortunately didn't take any jumps. I got her back, we continued and she was perfect. There were some really tough moves she got perfectly so I'm very proud of her. She hit the weaves and it seems her issue of stressing about them is history, she was so confident and didn't hesitate at all. Second to last jump she knocked a bar, which lost us the Q, but I am very proud of her. We've had a lot of time off and only 1 class since getting back into trials.

Meanwhile, the ravens tried to fly off with my treat bag I set on the bench by the ring...


----------



## trainingjunkie

We should have a thread where we celebrate our near Q's! 


Here's my most recent near Q:


----------



## trainingjunkie

And Sibe---

Congratulations! Glad it went well! 

I so, so love ravens!


----------



## DJEtzel

trainingjunkie said:


> We should have a thread where we celebrate our near Q's!
> 
> 
> Here's my most recent near Q:


I liked the commentary.  Haha, good run though otherwise!

Here are our two near Qs from last weekend.

Snooker
https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151238299222705

And standard
https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151238319657705


----------



## trainingjunkie

Nice runs!!! You will be consistently Qing in no time!

Oh, and my coach wouldn't be good for sissies! You gotta be able to handle the truth, because that's what she's going to give you!


----------



## Sibe

Awesome runs!!

Here's the course map from our run today. Blue -> purple is Denali's path obviously, and the green is the path I took, with the dot between 2 & 3 being where I started with a lead out - pivot. The big green dots are where I did crosses, all front crosses this time. There were some really tricky parts! Entering the weaves and not having the dog suck into the tunnel. Leaving the weaves that jump is right there to suck them in, and then wrapping the jump after the weaves was also tough. Some people didn't cross out of the weaves but I felt it was best to flip her around, block that jump (13), and direct her to the correct jump (12). Some people also wrapped that jump (12) to the left instead of to the right.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Interesting course! Open isn't easy. How many legs do you have?


----------



## Sibe

Only 1 and we've been in Open since September 2011. We've taken off several months during that time, but it can be frustrating and discouraging. I have a good time and so does she and that's what matters most. I'm doing better about reminding myself she's not a border collie, she's a husky. You don't see many huskies doing agility. She does *awesome* for her breed.

This was her first Open JWW way back then.. we've come a long way


----------



## trainingjunkie

Looks like fun! At least you aren't wrestling with shut down!!! 

I have now stood at the start line of 44 Excellent courses since June 2012. We have ONE Q! I had two major surgeries this fall, one right after the other, and that has really slowed us down. However, so has our lack of control!!!

Here's our last jumpers course:


I love the sport. I love running my psychotic dog. I have no trouble remembering that the game is the same, whether we get the Q or not.


----------



## Sibe

Great run! Stinks to miss something at the very end but it happens. Just when you think you have it, nope! I love running my crazy dog too. It's so much fun! I agree, I'd much rather have a crazy dog than one that shuts down. The crazies are fun even if they cost a Q. I always have fun watching the dogs that seem just barely enough in control to be guided through the course. Whether they get the Q or not doesn't matter. You know the dog is having a blast.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Got her NAJ 

Our first NQ ever though in standard, which is a bummer, but she had FUN! Can't wait to see what tomorrow brings


----------



## Kyllobernese

Fourth Agility class, only one more to go. Set up a course and ran it a few times. The first time Lucy missed the chute but that was my fault as she has not done it for over a month. Once I went back and encouraged her, she ran through it fine. She is running the weave channel really good now. I am horrible at throwing the treat bag in a straight line so what I have been doing is putting it out from the end of the weave channel, then taking Lucy back (under protest) to the entry. When I take her collar off and release her, she races down the weaves even when I closed it up more and she had a real "wiggle" going. Still a ways to go but she is getting the idea.

There is a trial the middle of March and I may decide to enter Remmy depending on what kind of weather we have between now and then. They do refund your entry if the roads are really bad as it is about a four hour drive each way.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Well both of our runs were ALMOST Qs today (Novice Standard, Open Jumpers), and both NQs were my fault LOL. For Standard, she apparently popped out of the weaves and I didn't know it (?) resulting in an F. BOO. Otherwise clean. Jumpers I sent her on the wrong course by accident, so that cost us the Q. Clean otherwise. Oh well! She followed me VERY well (to a fault in one case LOL), and she was happy. So it was a great day. We have our next trial in a month, so lots of time to work out some things


----------



## trainingjunkie

Glad to hear it went well! The mistakes are easier to take when you know what caused them! 


Here are my two runs from this morning!


----------



## DJEtzel

trainingjunkie said:


> Glad to hear it went well! The mistakes are easier to take when you know what caused them!
> 
> 
> Here are my two runs from this morning!


Those were awesome!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

trainingjunkie said:


> Glad to hear it went well! The mistakes are easier to take when you know what caused them!
> 
> 
> Here are my two runs from this morning!


Yep! Now it's obvious what needs more work, and now that she's used to that environment (she was a bit spooky for our first run there, but loosened up throughout the weekend), it works out that our next 2 trials (early March, late March) are there. We shouldn't have to worry about that aspect of things for the next time 

NICE runs! I love your dog. You guys look like you are having a blast


----------



## RabbleFox

trainingjunkie said:


> Glad to hear it went well! The mistakes are easier to take when you know what caused them!
> 
> 
> Here are my two runs from this morning!


I love how bouncy your dog's gait is! He is so happy to be there. You guys really rocked those courses out.

Pepper was insane this week (not in a good way). This video is just a sample, I haven't had the time to edit our footage from last Tuesday special thanks to my Orgo Exam tomorrow. Generally, he is super focused on me but this week he was all over the trainers when we were running off leash. They were treating him for doing easy things like going over a teeter that was 3 inches off the ground (he has run all the obstacles prior to this class and he can do a full height teeter all by himself). I'm going to ask them to stop treating him but I'm afraid that he now associates the trainers as treaters. How can I refocus him?






A trainer comes from behind us and fixes the jump we knocked which is why Pepper re-jumps it. You can't see it but he sits really nice for her and asks for a snack politely.


----------



## DJEtzel

RabbleFox said:


> I love how bouncy your dog's gait is! He is so happy to be there. You guys really rocked those courses out.
> 
> Pepper was insane this week (not in a good way). This video is just a sample, I haven't had the time to edit our footage from last Tuesday special thanks to my Orgo Exam tomorrow. Generally, he is super focused on me but this week he was all over the trainers when we were running off leash. They were treating him for doing easy things like going over a teeter that was 3 inches off the ground (he has run all the obstacles prior to this class and he can do a full height teeter all by himself). I'm going to ask them to stop treating him but I'm afraid that he now associates the trainers as treaters. How can I refocus him?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A trainer comes from behind us and fixes the jump we knocked which is why Pepper re-jumps it. You can't see it but he sits really nice for her and asks for a snack politely.


Your video is private! 

All of our trainers treat our dogs for random good things during greetings, for targets, etc. My puppy ran behind me in a post turn to weaves the other day to go sit at our instructor's feet because she was feeding the target. 

You just have to be more fun than the instructor! We do a ton of focus work and engagement, which is my go to for having a drivey dog that wants to work for you!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Your video does not open, but here's a thought:

If food is available on the other people in the ring, why wouldn't Pepper go for it? Often, my trainer rewards my dog. However, she only does it when she has asked for a behavior. This means that if my dog were to mob her, my dog would get nothing. However, if I do a send, she might place a treat on a target at the end of my send. Because of the use of the target, my dog knows not to go to "her" for the treat, but rather, he goes to the target even though the trainer actually has the food.

My trainer might throw a toy too, but again, it's at the end of a sequence OR it's tossed in the middle of a sequence and my dog has to ignore it until the sequence is over.

Letting your dog be rewarded for soliciting a treat while working (I think!) might be training him to buzz the humans in the ring. They ought to be invisible to him while he's running, so I would ask people to ignore him or even turn their backs to him if he approaches during lessons. If they refuse, I would consider finding another group of people to train with. 

On occasion, my trainer and friend have actually been bar-setters at trials, so they are sitting in the ring while we run. My dog LOVES them, but runs right on by when competing because he knows that I hold the good stuff and that he has to run to the end before the party starts. If he had a history of getting "free food" off of them while training, I am sure that they would have to leave the ring while we ran.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I just reaad DJEtzel's posting. If a person had a fearful dog or a dog that showed concern over the other people on-course, having those people feed the dog/pup might make a lot of sense until the dog got used to having others on the field. There are always exceptions. But in general, I would avoid having great reinforcers come from anywhere but me or on the run-line, earned at the end of a sequence. 

My trainer sometimes runs my dog in practice. In that case, the treats come from her and I offer nothing. My dogs have all learned that reinforcement is only available from the person they are working with, even if that person is not me. Otherwise, the rewards are located on the lines of travel. 

There are a million good ways of doing things. All dogs and handlers are different. This is just what works for me.


----------



## RabbleFox

I fixed the video!

They generally treat him for doing super easy stuff. Want me to run down the middle of some weave poles or jump up and down on a teeter? Ok. Auto-treat. I think he is also testing them. He is super smart so he knows that anyone wearing a fanny pack mostly likely has snacks inside of there. He will poke at their bags, whine, and sit. By sitting really sweetly right in front, he is hoping they will treat him. They don't, so he comes back to me, I send him again, and he find some other lady to sit for and ask for treats.

I'm thinking about upping the reward from me and asking the trainers to never treat him. I would rather have him look at me during a run than always be looking for others for rewards. Cheese is the greatest treat of all to Pepper so mayhaps if I brought that, he wouldn't want their silly meat treats. 

I am thinking I will also ask them to turn their backs to him if he runs up to them during our runs. Thats an excellent idea! I would agree that the more fearful dogs or the dogs who've never done these obstacles definitely benefit from the treats scattered all over the teeter and the constant treating from the other trainers. Its just that Pepper is much more advanced than the others. I keep trying to tell the trainers that subtly but it hasn't clicked yet, apparently. We are the only pair that does open floor time or who work on our own outside of class.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Everyone trains different. There are no real "right or wrongs." With that said, I would have responded very differently than you did in your clip with all of my dogs. ( I run 3.) 
The SECOND my dog would have tried to cross behind me, I would have stopped the run. I would not have allowed my dogs to engage the teeter. The cross behind you is ALWAYS wrong and always will be, so the second a dog tried to duck behind me, I would have said, "OOPS! Come!" and I would have restarted the exercise. The teeter would not have been in play until we got there correctly. Certainly, the backwards teeter would not have been either.

My reasoning for the quick "oops" and the stop is this: If you let the performance carry on, the dog has no way of understanding that he can't cut behind his handler. That cut is more important than the teeter in the big picture, because the teeter becomes an independently performed obstacle. (Eventually.) The handling rules are teamwork and forever. The handling cues should be the most important part of the work. The obstacles are secondary in the sense that they should come AFTER the handling skills are learned or they should be worked on indepndently of the handling until they are solid.

My youngest dog and I work handling and obstacles. First, we do handling drills with jumps, chutes, tunnels and a table. THEN, we go and work each obstacle as an island. Until my dog is rock-solid on an obstacle, I do not introduce it into a handling sequence. In your case, I might consider breaking the teeter out of a jump seqence until your teeter is full-hight and totally independent and solid.

Everyone is different. Your dog has a great attitude and looks like a super fun little guy! He also looks durable! I don't think that a re-start would demotivate him in the least. You are going to have so much fun!


----------



## RabbleFox

trainingjunkie said:


> First, we do handling drills with jumps, chutes, tunnels and a table. THEN, we go and work each obstacle as an island. Until my dog is rock-solid on an obstacle, I do not introduce it into a handling sequence. In your case, I might consider breaking the teeter out of a jump seqence until your teeter is full-hight and totally independent and solid.
> 
> Everyone is different. Your dog has a great attitude and looks like a super fun little guy! He also looks durable! I don't think that a re-start would demotivate him in the least. You are going to have so much fun!


Now that I look back, I know I should have stopped and restarted. Hind sight is 20-20! He is extremely durable special thanks to his breed. I read somewhere that Aussies are supposed to be able to work all day even after getting kicked in the face by cattle. When we do work on our own, we do each obstacle independently then mini sequences, then longer sequences. Generally that works better than working each easy, low obstacle independently and then running a longer sequence after having him sit around for 20 minutes. The dogs prior to us took quite a long time to do their work so he was _really_ excited by the time our turn came around. I'm hoping tomorrow's class will be better all around. We'll do it our way and see how that goes.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I have always wanted to train and run an Aussie! They look like so much fun!

My personal dogs are terriers and hounds!!! WHAT WAS I THINKING!!!

I hope I didn't sound icky with my feedback! It was totally not my intent in the least! I have recently been through a really strange learning curve when it comes to agility and the quality of trainers out there. I have always taken private lessons with great trainers but decided to supplement my dog's experiences by taking classes. Some of the CRAP I have seen in classes just curls my toes!

I have no idea what people know or don't know, so I assume that a fresh prespective is helpful.

I really wish there was a way to help new-comers to the sport sift through trainers and make informed decisions about how they start and who they start with. It seems that the new people need the best help but often end up with the poorest trainers and end up having to go backwards and repair damage/gaps if they start to compete in the sport. Some of the "trainers" out there are really bad and have no idea what they are doing. I am in no way saying that YOUR trainers are that way! I have no information at all about them! But I just chimed in! 

I can't wait to watch you develop as a team! It will be a ton of fun to track you on your adventure!


----------



## RabbleFox

Terriers and hounds... I don't know if I could do it! I bet they are a riot to work with.  I totally respect your opinion and value it. I hope I didn't come off as annoyed or something. I need some feedback and some advice! Hahah you've been really helpful. My class is just kind of behind compared to Pepper so I think I have to step it up and tell the trainers what I think. No point in regressing, right? My trainers are nice but its hard to tailor class to each individual dog. Being the owners, I think its our job to speak up. I just have a hard time finding my voice in class. I know what you mean about some trainers not being as good as others. Thank you so much for your advice.

Tomorrow night or Wednesday I will post about tomorrow's class. Finger's crossed we do a full teeter. Or at least something that will challenge Pepper. He needs a challenge or else things get boring for him. You should try an Aussie out sometime. They are a total blast. Fast and agile but not insane like a Border Collie (No offense to BC owners!).


----------



## trainingjunkie

I actually was supposed to get a mini-aussie last month as a foster. I was super excited about playing with him! I figured he would adopt fast, but I was still looking forward to learning. He was a really intense dog with an aggression issue, so he should have been a blast! Unfortunately, just a few days before he was supposed to come to me, he swallowed a toy at his owner's house and had a full bowel obstruction and the family put him down.

I shouldn't speak poorly of my terriers and hound. They are super intense and willing workers. My male has the spirit of a bc, no doubt. He never tires, complains, slows down, or quits. I got really lucky. My whippet is on fire too.


----------



## RabbleFox

trainingjunkie said:


> I actually was supposed to get a mini-aussie last month as a foster... I shouldn't speak poorly of my terriers and hound. They are super intense and willing workers. My male has the spirit of a bc, no doubt. He never tires, complains, slows down, or quits. I got really lucky. My whippet is on fire too.


Next time an opportunity presents itself, go for it! There really isn't another breed like the Australian Shepherd. As you probably know, without the proper training they can form some nasty habits. Thats really sad that they had to put him down.  Size appropriate toys are a must! I admit that Pepper sometimes plays with the cats' toys but he also has never eaten any of his toys. He is really careful about his "guys".

I want to try my hand at running a hound dog or terrier. I've only ever worked with Pepper on agility. It would be cool to try another type of dog besides a herder. I wish I had the money/permission to adopt a dog right now. Its a good time for me, training-wise, minus the cash flow problem.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Oh, gosh...other people treating dogs while they're supposed to be doing agility. This has been a huge problem for me from day one because of my dog's INSANE food motivation. She knows that I make her work for treats. But she's learned that other people won't make her work as hard. So guess what??? I got *so* fed up with my first agility instructor because she wouldn't quit doing this no matter how many times I told her not to. It really set us back a lot. When I moved to my next instructor, I pulled her aside during our first class and asked (very politely) that she NEVER EVER treat my dog, no matter what. To this day, I have a strange policy for people who ask if my dog can have a treat. Are you likely to ever be in or near the agility ring when I'm running? Yes? Then the answer is no, you may not treat my dog. No? Sure, go ahead.

We're at an away trial this weekend. I'm leaving on Friday afternoon to make the trek up there. Should be fun.


----------



## RabbleFox

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Oh, gosh...other people treating dogs while they're supposed to be doing agility. This has been a huge problem for me from day one because of my dog's INSANE food motivation...
> 
> ...We're at an away trial this weekend. I'm leaving on Friday afternoon to make the trek up there. Should be fun.


Tell me about it! Treat motivated dogs are a blessing and a curse. Darn you delicious dog trainer treats! Here is our full video from last week:






I'm excited for tonight's class. We are going to be sooooo focused on not the trainers.

What level are ya'll competing at this weekend, GottaLuvMutts? Novice? Open? Excellent?


----------



## trainingjunkie

RabbleFox---

I like what I know of you! You have a super-cool dog! You are doing great!! I want you to know that I am on your side. So please take this is the best possible spirit...

If your goal is to compete AND if you think that you might want to play in this sport in some sort of semi-serious way, I would suggest quitting this class and finding a private trainer. A lesson every two weeks wouldn't cost tons more and you would get much further ahead. Watching this extended video just makes me cringe.

There are a lot of ways to do things, but this method is not for me. Anytime a trainer puts a dog over a jump with a leash, I load up my gear and leave. I know that there are a million ways to train, but teaching a dog that the bar will always drop and risking a hang-up is simply where I sign off. I have witnessed dogs in prongs jumping lines with a 6 foot leather leash attached and it made me nuts. 

I think that there's better training out there. I know that there's worse too. But unless this is billed as "agility for pet dogs" I would not sign up for another session. Are private lessons possible for you?

And, heck, maybe I'm just flat-out wrong. If so, I am confident that plenty of people will say so. Who am I to give advice?

BUT, your dog is clearly having a blast and is super-awesome and watching the fun that the two of you are having makes me smile! I am not trying to be a grump. I simply believe that you deserve better.


----------



## RabbleFox

trainingjunkie said:


> There are a lot of ways to do things, but this method is not for me. Anytime a trainer puts a dog over a jump with a leash, I load up my gear and leave. I know that there are a million ways to train, but teaching a dog that the bar will always drop and risking a hang-up is simply where I sign off. I have witnessed dogs in prongs jumping lines with a 6 foot leather leash attached and it made me nuts.


That is actually my fault. I should be holding the leash but I dropped it because I want to try and work him from further away. I wish I could have him off leash when we practice jumping then re-clip him for the standing around part of class. I'm also supposed to hold the leash when he is in the weave poles but that also annoys me. He runs it much better without me accidentally tugging on his neck. Its their policy that no two dogs be in the ring together off leash. In my area we have very few places who offer agility classes. I think I will sit in on a few other classes and see how those are. Can't hurt to shop around, right?

I'm not sure about private lessons. Its unclear who I would take them from! Or how much they'd cost here. I might try and do some stuff again by myself. We did about 2 months of work on our own before winter set in. By my standards it went really well. I've got jumps, a tire jump, a teeter, and tunnel at home so we can do that plus open floor time for 15 bucks a week.

P.S. I really value you opinion and appreciate that you take the time to respond to my posts. I'm super new to this so I don't know whats right and whats a wrong way to train. Thanks!


----------



## trainingjunkie

It's my pleasure to respond so long as I am not upsetting you!

I philosophically believe (rightly or wrongly) that agility should be the dog's choice. Always. It's up to me to make the sport so much fun that the dog choses it. A leash plays no part in this... Whenever I see dogs being led and sorta gently forced, I am not interested in that method. I believe in working motivation. I also think that a dog should have pretty solid obedience skills before starting agility training. If a dog can't focus and recall, that's what the handler should be working on. Not weaves and contacts. I also don't think that weaves, contacts, teeters, jumps, and sequenceing should be taught concurrently. But again, just me. My trainer and I spent 3 months working a start-line with my puppy. THREE FREAKING MONTHS!!! I thought I was going to die from it. But man on man did it work out well.

When I started agility, I started with someone who freaked out my dog. The trainer tried to throw my dog into a tunnel and super-soaked some dogs that were barking in crates. The one long-term student that I was training with couldn't get her dog to stop doing zoomies. We spent half the class time trying to catch her dog. At least that was better than terrifying mine! I quit after 2 lessons and just abandoned the money I spent. I then got a referal to a good private trainer who is someone significant in the sport. After a while, I wanted something different. I felt that this trainer and I had come to an impass. I also noticed that none of this trainer's students were accomplishing much, even though the trainer was. SO, I went to trials and watched people run. I watched about a dozen trials, all the time asking myself which handlers seemed to have the skills I most needed. Once I identified someone I admired, I approached her and asked her if she was taking on students. This trainer changed my agility life entirely. I learned a ton from both of my trainers and from time to time, I go and take a lesson from someone else just to keep perspective. In fact, I am driving 4 hours each way for a 3 hour private on Friday.

Your foundation work is the most important work you will do. Maybe ask your instructors if they do privates. If they do, ask them how privates are different from class. 

OR, if your instructors are turning out successful teams, disregard every word I have said. Are their students out there accomplishing their goals? If so, then they must know what they're doing and you can trust them. It's a question worth asking.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

RabbleFox said:


> What level are ya'll competing at this weekend, GottaLuvMutts? Novice? Open? Excellent?


All elite now 

Just watched the video. I'm with trainingjunkie. Leashes have no place in agility. Yes, insanity ensues when you lose the leash. That's because you're just beginning and the dog doesn't know what you want. But working through that insanity is the formula for progress. Also, what's up with the contacts? He's a big enough dog that you should at least consider training 2o2o rather than a running contact. 

Your trainer treat problem isn't nearly as bad as mine was. Your dog sits politely for treats. My (former) trainer would position herself on the course and then call my dog, encouraging the dog to do the equipment along the way. This strategy worked well for many dogs in my class, because once they got to the trainer, they lost interest after they got their treat. My dog would get so amped about the greeting and treats that the equipment was an afterthought. Once there, she didn't hold back. She'd be happy to knock someone off their feet to get their treats. After receiving her treat, she'd continue to jump at the person in hopes of more. Manners were never her forte. She doesn't do this to me because she knows that treats from me must be earned.


----------



## kadylady

Had another really good class last night. We learned lateral sends and continued practicing front crosses (which I'm finally starting to get now that we have coupled it with a short sequence). We have also started having the dogs run down a line of increasingly offset jumps, and so far Zoey has nailed it everytime. The others in the class were commenting about her insane extension in between jumps (pretty much how Zoey approaches life).

The second half of class we worked on a longer sequence. We did jump, lateral send to tunnel, table, tire, tunnel, A-frame, dog walk. We really focused a lot on contact behavior this week and I feel like that is finally starting to click for me and how I need to practice it at home. I was really proud of how well Zoey focused on me tonight. A couple of the dogs were having some trouble with the longer sequence and wanting to run off to a different obstacle, but Zoey was really focused tonight and followed me really well. We had a slightly difficult spot to go from A-frame to dog walk, where you had to make a corner and the first tunnel was tempting to a couple dogs. But Zoey really nailed it and stayed with me and I probably could have sped up/looked ahead a bit. I feel like I am at the point where I need to start trusting her a little more and looking ahead to the next obstacle instead of watching her so much to make sure she makes it through the current obstacle.

To comment on the treating issues above...our instructors make sure not to treat the dogs or even interact with them on the floor unless they are specifically working on something with them. They use a target as much as possible vs treating the dog themselves. I feel like I would have some issues with Zoey as well if they were treating her directly.

I was actually really nervous for my first agility class because in the description is said the dog would need to work off leash and I though that would be Zoey's downfall. But since starting I have only had one time where she got over excited to see another dog and ran across the floor. I did use a short tab sometimes in the first class I took. But now the level of focus she shows me during class is amazing to me, something that I wasn't sure I would get from her (based on her personality/characteristics). I am also starting to see improvement in her off leash behavior outside of agility class. It's great!

Anyways...that's my rambling of the week! Good luck this weekend GottaLuvMutts!


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know what Training Junkie is saying. I trained Remmy more or less on my own, being able to use the equipment that belonged to a "trainer" that did Obedience and Agility classes. The Agility classes were on leash, forcing them over full height teeters from the start, etc. I never did any Agility on leash as Remmy was a dog that was focused on me and not interested in going to others even if they had treats.

Well, now I am starting with Lucy, I have finally got her into a Foundation Agility class with a great instructor and I know it is going to be so much better. I have also put Remmy into her Handling classes which is making such a difference with Remmy as he was getting inclined to do zoomies and set his own course this last year. I am sure it was just from frustration as I was not giving him the right direction and the Masters Courses were tougher.

Lucy and Remmy are into their second session and are really doing well. We have one more Saturday, then won't have any classes for a while but hopefully the snow will finally go and we can practice on our own equipment at home.

Our first trial for Remmy is in March and hopefully he can get his last two Q's in Snooker, then he will be in Masters in Standard and Games. He has his Starters Titles and his Advanced Title in Standard. Lucy is not 18 months old till August so can't compete with her till then.

Attached is a Video of Remmy in a Masters Gambler. Despite my bad handling, he just missed getting a Q. He has improved on his start line by lots of treats and using OK instead of his name.



http://youtu.be/T1Mg6LbPZjw


----------



## RabbleFox

GottaLuvMutts said:


> All elite now
> 
> Just watched the video. I'm with trainingjunkie. Leashes have no place in agility. Yes, insanity ensues when you lose the leash. That's because you're just beginning and the dog doesn't know what you want. But working through that insanity is the formula for progress. Also, what's up with the contacts? He's a big enough dog that you should at least consider training 2o2o rather than a running contact.


Congrats on the elite! Thats soooo exciting. Best of luck. 

I will probably go back to training by myself for a time after intermediate agility. Unfortunately, I've looked around this seems to be the only place that has a good agility program. I think we still benefit from the dog to dog-new experience-exposure to other people-distraction parts of class. The dogs that run in the higher classes do compete and do achieve so maybe its just beginner's agility that is kind of weird? I don't know. Have you been to classes where the dogs are all off leash?

We haven't done 2o2o yet because when the teeter is high, he waits for me. Nice and slow. Its the low teeter + treats that made him run all over the thing.






Thats us on a full teeter, waiting all nice for me. The dog walk in there is slippery and I shouldn't have lead him with the treats so much. The teeter, dogwalk, and A-frame from class are so much nicer than our open floor time space. Another reason why I want to continue classes... They've got grippy contacts!


----------



## Canyx

This thread makes me happy.
And I thought I'd share a VERY old video, taken around 4 years ago. This was one of our last classes before I dropped agility for college and we haven't touched it since. But I'm thinking about getting back into it again.
Jumps and one weave only.





I see most of my mistakes; dropping my arm and basically stopping at the table, not pulling his turns tight enough. But we pretty much just lollygag around in class anyways  I also forgot the order of the courses all the time. If there was such a thing as casual-agility, that would be our thing. Soro LOVED it though.


----------



## LoMD13

We had a REALLY good class this week, which hopefully will bode well for our trial in a couple of weeks! 

Lo was super focused, FAST (which is where we struggle sometimes), and she was actually starting to do distance. She's pretty velcro, so that's been a challenge for us too. We especially struggle with distance tunnels-- she has been running to the tunnel, goes in about a foot, and will turn around and stare at me and sometimes lay down. Tonight she did the stop and stare a few times, but then it "clicked" and she figured out what I wanted. 

Weaves are...getting there. She'll do them, but very slowly and she tends to look up at me after each one to see if she's doing it right and that can sometimes cause her to miss one. 

We were supposed to have run-throughs this weekend, but I suspect the 30 inches of predicted snow is going to put a damper on that.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Something interesting happened at class tonight:

NADAC publishes a "top 10" list for each breed every year. Basically, it lists the top 10 scoring dogs of each breed for each class. My instructor informed me tonight that Kit and I made this list for mixed breeds. At first I didn't believe it, because only elite points count, and we just got into elite. So I checked. Sure enough, we made top 10 in 3 different classes. I find this remarkable because we earned our very first elite Q in ANY of those classes in late October 2012 (meaning that our Q's from Jan-Sept didn't even count!). I bet if you counted our Q's for the whole year, we'd be at or near the top of the list for each class.


----------



## trainingjunkie

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Something interesting happened at class tonight:
> 
> NADAC publishes a "top 10" list for each breed every year. Basically, it lists the top 10 scoring dogs of each breed for each class. My instructor informed me tonight that Kit and I made this list for mixed breeds. At first I didn't believe it, because only elite points count, and we just got into elite. So I checked. Sure enough, we made top 10 in 3 different classes. I find this remarkable because we earned our very first elite Q in ANY of those classes in late October 2012 (meaning that our Q's from Jan-Sept didn't even count!). I bet if you counted our Q's for the whole year, we'd be at or near the top of the list for each class.


Congratulations! That's wonderful! There's something even more satisfying about accomplishing all of that with a rescue! Good for you guys!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Something interesting happened at class tonight:
> 
> NADAC publishes a "top 10" list for each breed every year. Basically, it lists the top 10 scoring dogs of each breed for each class. My instructor informed me tonight that Kit and I made this list for mixed breeds. At first I didn't believe it, because only elite points count, and we just got into elite. So I checked. Sure enough, we made top 10 in 3 different classes. I find this remarkable because we earned our very first elite Q in ANY of those classes in late October 2012 (meaning that our Q's from Jan-Sept didn't even count!). I bet if you counted our Q's for the whole year, we'd be at or near the top of the list for each class.


That's AMAZING!!! Huge congrats to you and Kit! You totally deserve it


----------



## LoMD13

We had a trial over the weekend (our second) with some mixed success/fail

For the good: Her first run (snooker) was REALLY nice. She was fast, confident, listening to what I was telling her. Basically perfect. She also did weaves which was a really pleasant surprised because she can barely do them in class. We didn't Q (But came within a second of it, she was IN the tunnel when the time buzzer rang and the points for that tunnel would have been enough to Q) , but I thought the course was much harder than our last trials and she was actually better than the time we did Q. 

And then after that we did Jumpers. And that was just a hot mess. She was SO distracted, sniffy, checking out every single spot on the ground to see if it might be a crumb. Basically needed me to cheerlead her through the whole thing. 

So that makes the second trial where we've had a really nice first run, and a really bad second run. Thinking I should only enter one next time, but I really wish I could figure out why.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

It sounds like you and Lo are doing so well!!! (More videos please??? )

Maybe it's just too much for her to do two runs in one day? Could you try a run one day and another the next? Or just one per weekend. How is she at class with multiple runs sort of in a row?

We'e had NICE classes the past couple of weeks (took last week off because of Bubbles). Apparently my sending her to the weaves is what needs to happen - the second I try to babysit her to send her in, she bails. So yeah. Hoping my theory proves true in our next trial in a couple of weeks. She's just FAST now, and getting more focused by the week. I am so proud of her, and SO SO SO glad I waited as long as I did to begin trialing her


----------



## LoMD13

Finkie_Mom said:


> It sounds like you and Lo are doing so well!!! (More videos please??? )
> 
> Maybe it's just too much for her to do two runs in one day? Could you try a run one day and another the next? Or just one per weekend. How is she at class with multiple runs sort of in a row?
> 
> We'e had NICE classes the past couple of weeks (took last week off because of Bubbles). Apparently my sending her to the weaves is what needs to happen - the second I try to babysit her to send her in, she bails. So yeah. Hoping my theory proves true in our next trial in a couple of weeks. She's just FAST now, and getting more focused by the week. I am so proud of her, and SO SO SO glad I waited as long as I did to begin trialing her


I think we'll try one per day next time. She has no problem whatsoever doing 2-3 sequences in class- if anything she gets better as the hour goes on. At trials her first and second runs are like two different dogs- night and day. It wasn't me she was feeding off of because I was feeling pretty confident going into our second since she'd done so well in the first. The only difference was that it was the second run and the course was different.

I'm starting to think maybe the difference is that during class I usually treat her right after the last obstacle, or sometimes in between if it's a particularly tough one- so I'm thinking maybe she's figured out after the first run that she doesn't get rewarded? We're doing run throughs on saturday so I'll have to experiment with that. And maybe start treating when we get outside the ring in class. 

That's fantastic about the weaves with Kimma!!! Weaves are HARD, I see a lot of the really good dogs messing them up. Can't WAIT to hear how she does at her next trial!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

LoMD13 said:


> I think we'll try one per day next time. She has no problem whatsoever doing 2-3 sequences in class- if anything she gets better as the hour goes on. At trials her first and second runs are like two different dogs- night and day. It wasn't me she was feeding off of because I was feeling pretty confident going into our second since she'd done so well in the first. The only difference was that it was the second run and the course was different.
> 
> I'm starting to think maybe the difference is that during class I usually treat her right after the last obstacle, or sometimes in between if it's a particularly tough one- so I'm thinking maybe she's figured out after the first run that she doesn't get rewarded? We're doing run throughs on saturday so I'll have to experiment with that. And maybe start treating when we get outside the ring in class.
> 
> That's fantastic about the weaves with Kimma!!! Weaves are HARD, I see a lot of the really good dogs messing them up. Can't WAIT to hear how she does at her next trial!


That's what I was thinking - it must be a treating issue. How long does it take for you to treat her in a trial? Maybe there's a way to shorten the wait time? 

One thing that NADAC has done recently is to allow people to carry their treats (or toys) on their person during a run. They must be in a sealed container, such as a ziplock or small Tupperware. If they fall out during your run, you're eliminated, and you can't indicate to the dog that you have them. But it cuts down on the wait time after a run and it cuts down on people leaving treats outside the ring that might be accessible to other dogs.

ETA: Sad news tonight. At the trial a couple of weekends ago, I roomed with a woman and her two goldens. She ran the older one in the trial. Just found out tonight that the dog died Tuesday of a chocolate overdose. Not even 4 years old :-(


----------



## Laurelin

I need to break down and work on weaves. It's really the major area we need to work to get to trialling. the trials I've been to, we could definitely run in the classs without the weaves. I haven't done much work at all with them. I have a set of 2x2s but wished I had bought channels as that's what we're doing in class. Anyone have suggestions for us? Everything else has gone smoothly and both girls are doing very well. Very fast and having lots of fun! I think I worked Summer through her tunnel weirdness. I think she really just got confused and truly thought I wanted her to jump on top of the tunnel and run on it. lol

My trainer can't teach thursday nights anymore though. Not sure what the plan is- if I'll have to move into one of the other classes with another trainer or if we're changing to a weekend class.


----------



## Laurelin

trainingjunkie said:


> It's my pleasure to respond so long as I am not upsetting you!
> 
> I philosophically believe (rightly or wrongly) that agility should be the dog's choice. Always. It's up to me to make the sport so much fun that the dog choses it. A leash plays no part in this... Whenever I see dogs being led and sorta gently forced, I am not interested in that method. I believe in working motivation. I also think that a dog should have pretty solid obedience skills before starting agility training. If a dog can't focus and recall, that's what the handler should be working on. Not weaves and contacts. I also don't think that weaves, contacts, teeters, jumps, and sequenceing should be taught concurrently. But again, just me. My trainer and I spent 3 months working a start-line with my puppy. THREE FREAKING MONTHS!!! I thought I was going to die from it. But man on man did it work out well.
> 
> When I started agility, I started with someone who freaked out my dog. The trainer tried to throw my dog into a tunnel and super-soaked some dogs that were barking in crates. The one long-term student that I was training with couldn't get her dog to stop doing zoomies. We spent half the class time trying to catch her dog. At least that was better than terrifying mine! I quit after 2 lessons and just abandoned the money I spent. I then got a referal to a good private trainer who is someone significant in the sport. After a while, I wanted something different. I felt that this trainer and I had come to an impass. I also noticed that none of this trainer's students were accomplishing much, even though the trainer was. SO, I went to trials and watched people run. I watched about a dozen trials, all the time asking myself which handlers seemed to have the skills I most needed. Once I identified someone I admired, I approached her and asked her if she was taking on students. This trainer changed my agility life entirely. I learned a ton from both of my trainers and from time to time, I go and take a lesson from someone else just to keep perspective. In fact, I am driving 4 hours each way for a 3 hour private on Friday.
> 
> Your foundation work is the most important work you will do. Maybe ask your instructors if they do privates. If they do, ask them how privates are different from class.
> 
> OR, if your instructors are turning out successful teams, disregard every word I have said. Are their students out there accomplishing their goals? If so, then they must know what they're doing and you can trust them. It's a question worth asking.


So much this! I spent years with both my dogs in these kinds of classes. It's not worth it. Summer in particular was almost ruined and ended up stopping having fun. We started back up with good foundations and voila! It's like running a new dog. It's a super slow approach though, which is why other places don't do it. We did not see equipment until week 6. Very heavy on the foundation work. But it is all coming together so much nicer than my past classes I've been to. And summer went from turning ho-hum and walking everything to really flying and having a blast (at 9 years old).



RabbleFox said:


> Congrats on the elite! Thats soooo exciting. Best of luck.
> 
> I will probably go back to training by myself for a time after intermediate agility. Unfortunately, I've looked around this seems to be the only place that has a good agility program. I think we still benefit from the dog to dog-new experience-exposure to other people-distraction parts of class. The dogs that run in the higher classes do compete and do achieve so maybe its just beginner's agility that is kind of weird? I don't know. Have you been to classes where the dogs are all off leash?


Every class at my current place is off leash. The first night is on leash working on focus and introducing new handlers to shaping. After that... no leash. There is no point to having a leash for competitive agility. You are trying to build drive and speed. Leashes get in the way. If dogs aren't running, they are crated in our class. Honestly, having so many dogs in the ring at once in your class seems stressful.


----------



## kadylady

I went to my first agility trial this weekend (to volunteer and spectate). I had a really great time and learned so much from watching. All of the little pieces that we are working on in class just clicked seeing them in runs. I was helping on the ring crew, setting bars and setting up/tearing down courses, so I got a nice close up view of everything. Loved it! The people were really nice and welcoming. I got my paperwork to join the club as well.

I was curious as to what venues everyone here competes in? This trial was an AKC trial. One of my instructors was talking me through some of the stuff going on there and he mentioned that the AKC people are more competetive than the CPE? I've got to start learning the lingo and what everything means! lol 

Unfortunately class was canceled tonight due to weather (rained all day then turned into snow). Previous 2 weeks we started learning rear crosses. For me, the front crosses are still the most difficult. I think it's because I have trouble taking my eyes off Zoey so I don't time my front crosses right in relation to the obstacles. That's the hardest thing for me right now, not wanting to take my eyes off her, even though she is doing so good.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our last Agility practice last Saturday. We set up four short courses, practiced a little on each, then combined them all. The footing was horrible, it was so deep from the horses having used it. Everyone was puffing by the time they ran the full course, even the young people. I have just been concentrating on Remmy the last two Saturdays as we have a trial on the 9/10 of March. I am hoping I can finally get my last two Advanced Snooker Q's so Remmy will get his Advanced Games Title. He has his Advanced Standard Title and is in Masters in Standard, Gamblers and Jumpers.

I will start back with Lucy once this trial and the one at the end of March are over. Maybe by then the snow will be gone and we can start to do some training at home, not just one day a week at the classes.


----------



## LoMD13

GottaLuvMutts said:


> That's what I was thinking - it must be a treating issue. How long does it take for you to treat her in a trial? Maybe there's a way to shorten the wait time?
> 
> One thing that NADAC has done recently is to allow people to carry their treats (or toys) on their person during a run. They must be in a sealed container, such as a ziplock or small Tupperware. If they fall out during your run, you're eliminated, and you can't indicate to the dog that you have them. But it cuts down on the wait time after a run and it cuts down on people leaving treats outside the ring that might be accessible to other dogs.
> 
> ETA: Sad news tonight. At the trial a couple of weekends ago, I roomed with a woman and her two goldens. She ran the older one in the trial. Just found out tonight that the dog died Tuesday of a chocolate overdose. Not even 4 years old :-(


Well we've only been to 2 trials so far, but it's been about 1-2 minutes for me to to get out of the ring and get her treat. We're going to one more, and that'll probably be it for a while. I'm planning on having somebody with treats wait right outside the ring at the finish. Hopefully between that, not having to wake up at 6 am, and splitting it up into 2 days we'll have some better outcomes. 

So sad about that woman's dog- 4 years old is way, way too young


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> I need to break down and work on weaves. It's really the major area we need to work to get to trialling. the trials I've been to, we could definitely run in the classs without the weaves. I haven't done much work at all with them. I have a set of 2x2s but wished I had bought channels as that's what we're doing in class. Anyone have suggestions for us? Everything else has gone smoothly and both girls are doing very well. Very fast and having lots of fun! I think I worked Summer through her tunnel weirdness. I think she really just got confused and truly thought I wanted her to jump on top of the tunnel and run on it. lol
> 
> My trainer can't teach thursday nights anymore though. Not sure what the plan is- if I'll have to move into one of the other classes with another trainer or if we're changing to a weekend class.


I'm definitely no weave expert, but we'd been using channels in class for a longggg time and couldn't seem to get them closed. The last 2 months, our trainer had us ditch them and try shaping them and that really made it click for Lo. The downside is that she still glances at me after each weave, but she's doing it less and getting quicker as she gains confidence.


----------



## DJEtzel

Frag and I won't be able to go to class for the next few weeks and I'm very sad. Was hoping to go to a show and go Sunday, too, but he cut his hock wide open on something at the park and I spent the weekend babying him/keeping it wrapped and not bleeding. Now he's got a limp and the pain killers he's on make him pretty loopy; no class for Fwaddums. Recon's excited for class tomorrow though!

It's so weird working with a fast, drivey dog. I have a video I will post tomorrow, where we were working on a jump tunnel weave post turn at tunnel and it was so nice to be able to send Recon to tunnel and not have I guide him to it. In the video you can see me shrug because I was expecting to have to go all the way to the tunnel and barely made it past the jump before Recon took the tunnel. It was... NICE.


----------



## Sibe

Sorry about Frag, hope he heals well and quickly!


Denali was on FIRE tonight, she was super fast and focused. She always seems to have a great class when we don't do a darned thing for a couple weeks. Next trial is end of March.


----------



## Laurelin

Weave training is stressing me out, lol. I need to just go with a method and do baby-steps. We work on it some in class but like I said, channels and there's only so much you can do in a weekly class. In my past classes, they slapped guides on the weaves for Summer and she was doing those ok but I think she had no idea what to do because it hasn't ever translated over. 

Maybe my two will be on fire on thursday coming off of a two week break.


----------



## Sibe

I'm a huge fan of the 2x2 method. Dogs that learned 2x2 seem to have the best entrances and really grasp the concept of weaving.


----------



## Laurelin

I have a set of 2x2s, I just need to play with them. My instructor recommended those. Is there a good youtube for that method? I should probably buy the dvd but I really can't at the moment.


----------



## DJEtzel

Sibe said:


> I'm a huge fan of the 2x2 method. Dogs that learned 2x2 seem to have the best entrances and really grasp the concept of weaving.


I agree. I THINK what we were working on last week in Recon's class was this 2x2 method, but I'm not going to lie, I hear a lot of people talk about it differently and it confuses me... Here's two pictures of him working on it.. yes?


Agility! by DJetzel, on Flickr


Agility! by DJetzel, on Flickr




Laurelin said:


> I have a set of 2x2s, I just need to play with them. My instructor recommended those. Is there a good youtube for that method? I should probably buy the dvd but I really can't at the moment.


Have you considered bowwowflix? I LOVE it.


----------



## DJEtzel

Here's a video of Recon's sequence from last week... I must have deleted the one with myself shrugging, but this is just awesome because with Frag I literally have to run all the way to the tunnel, and with Recon I don't. It's nice knowing what to do and what not to do, starting with a puppy who LOVES agility already. 

http://youtu.be/Z0rFnngTj8E


----------



## Sibe

Here is a good 2x2 video. Make sure you practice each step quite a bit and from different angles before moving on.


----------



## kadylady

I love that you guys are talking about weaves!! I was told that the club does not teach weaves in the handling classes because there are so many methods of teaching them, but they do offer a couple "specialty" classes that cover weaves. My very first instructor highly recommended the 2x2 method. I would really like to start doing this with Zoey and I'm wondering if it's okay to use like stakes in the ground versus buying a whole weave set? Or if I would be better off investing in real weave poles? (My birthday is coming up soon...) I feel like this is something we can definitely practice at home.

Also...maybe a silly question...but does the dog have to always enter the weave poles on one specific side?


----------



## Sibe

Stakes in the ground is totally fine. I made my own weaves out of PVC, super cheap! The stripes are blue painters tape. I didn't cement much of it, so it's easy to take them apart. I did cement the base between the 2 joints so it can never twist or be crooked, and cemented the poles into the piece that screws into the joint. The screw piece is not cemented to the joint though. Basically, where you see the purple cement stuff is the only place it's cemented


----------



## DJEtzel

kadylady said:


> Also...maybe a silly question...but does the dog have to always enter the weave poles on one specific side?


Always from the right, with the first pole on the dog's left.


----------



## Sibe

kadylady said:


> Also...maybe a silly question...but does the dog have to always enter the weave poles on one specific side?


 Yes! Dogs need to have the first pole on their left. They enter from the right side.

This image can help you visualize it. See how no matter which way the dog was to enter, their left shoulder would touch the first pole?



























This also means they always come out the same side too









and they may have to wrap around the last pole on the way out


----------



## Laurelin

Well poo. Thursday back from the 2 week hiatus did not go so hot. Both my dogs decided to let their brains fall out. I even had to stop and kennel them each once because they were just SO not with me. 

On the other hand, some good things happened. Mia was able to be rewarded by a toy for the first time ever. I had a great last run with Mia doing a speed circle. Summer's went well until she decided to revert back to running on top of the tunnel instead of running through it. But after a couple runs on top of the tunnel, she ran through it. Lots of treats for her.


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> Mia was able to be rewarded by a toy for the first time ever.



Oy, we're supposed to try this next week and I have a feeling she's going to say "shove the toy, I believe I get hot dogs at this place".


----------



## RabbleFox

Update: Our Intermediate Agility class does not use leashes and there are only 2 other dogs besides Pepper. Way better than Beginner's class! Also, our trial trial is this Saturday. Yay!

How do agility trials go exactly? I've only been to agility trials that were also part of conformation shows so I'm not sure how they proceed solo. Or how they start! *helpless novice person*

Note about weaves that stake into the ground: They are wonderful! I use them. But now its winter and they can't get into the ground as its frozen... I'm thinking about making my own set like Sibe did with my next paycheck. 1in PVC is like $2.30 for 10 feet and the connectors aren't very expensive either. Its worth it to make as much agility equipment yourself as you can. Anything you can't make gets really expensive really quick!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

RabbleFox said:


> Update: Our Intermediate Agility class does not use leashes and there are only 2 other dogs besides Pepper. Way better than Beginner's class! Also, our trial trial is this Saturday. Yay!
> 
> How do agility trials go exactly? I've only been to agility trials that were also part of conformation shows so I'm not sure how they proceed solo. Or how they start! *helpless novice person*
> 
> Note about weaves that stake into the ground: They are wonderful! I use them. But now its winter and they can't get into the ground as its frozen... I'm thinking about making my own set like Sibe did with my next paycheck. 1in PVC is like $2.30 for 10 feet and the connectors aren't very expensive either. Its worth it to make as much agility equipment yourself as you can. Anything you can't make gets really expensive really quick!


What venue is this trial? Just to check, you're going to spectate and help, not enter, right? 
Most trials will have a running order posted so that competitors know when they need to be in the ring. They'll go small to tall or tall to small, then sometimes switch for the next day. Trials can be one or two rings. Usually there's a briefing before the first run when they remind people of the rules. A new course is built, then everyone walks it, then everyone runs it, then they build the next course. This is venue-dependent, but most trials will have anywhere from 3 to 6 runs in a day.

Regarding making equipment...
I own none of my own equipment, but last year I entered a national championship with my first agility dog, who was barely 4 at the time. You don't _need_ your own equipment, but it's nice to have a place to practice once in a while. The facility where I take class has "open practice" whenever there's not classes going on, and classes are really only weeknights. Often there's still a course or two set from the last class. They have plenty of trial-quality equipment. I pay $5 to go and run as many dogs as I want for as long as I want. If other people show up to practice, we take turns and help each other. I find this much nicer and easier than trying to build my own stuff.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

So I'm officially in love with Kimma. If no other reason than she makes me laugh.

We had our 5th ever trial day, in novice standard and open jumpers. For standard she was HYPED. More so than I've seen her at a trial yet. Which is good as she's very weird in new places (and locations can remain "new" to her for a WHILE) and fortunately seems to have gotten over that in this commonly used trial site, but bad as she is FAST. So not anticipating that, she went right by me as I did a bit of a lead out for her (appropriate to what I figured she would do), and ZOOMED. Just a couple of times in a circle around me, but then she did come back and do perfect weaves (YAY!). Decided to zoom around the chute, do a good frame, some jumps, and zoom around a jump. At which point I decided to be done since we wouldn't Q anyway, but she left with a big grin on her face and was quite out of breath LOL.

Then came jumpers. I figured that she would be super hyped again, so I wanted to get a good lead out. Well she broke her start line stay and I put her back in to it. At which point her feelings were crushed, sensitive dog that she is. She gave me the saddest look ever as I walked away from her, but did hold her stay. Then she was super slow over a few jumps, refused a jump, then got back in to it and realized that this stuff is SUPER FUN. Took a wrong course since, hey, she remembered that THIS IS AWESOME AND SHE NEEDS TO JUMP ALL THE THINGS even if they aren't in her path, but then got it together for an great finish (including GOOD weaves!). Again, leaving with a huge grin on her face. 

So in conclusion, Kimma is awesomely crazy. She gives everyone a laugh, including me, and she really is such a good girl when all is said and done. One day we will get out of novice standard, and then we shall be stuck in open-limbo until forever I'm sure


----------



## Kicks

13 obstacle corse in class today.


----------



## Kyllobernese

So far Lucy has had a course of 6 and one of 5 in Foundation Agility. She is still just running the channels and what really worked for me was having a "toy" with treats in it. As I am horrible at throwing in a straight line, I would take the treat bag to the end of the weave channel, walk back to the start and turn Lucy loose. She would just race through the channel for her treat. She used to keep looking at me but since I have done it this way now, she really homes in on the bag and has not ducked out once. As she is just over a year, we have just started to close up the channel enough so she is starting to give a little wiggle as she goes through. You can also have someone else put the bag at the end of the channel. She cannot get the treat till I open the bag so if she did happen to duck out, she would not get one.

We have no classes for a while and there is too much snow (just had another 6 inches) to train outside, we will be off for a little while. This weekend we are heading out for a trial with Remmy and Mikey.


----------



## RabbleFox

So we went to our first trial and it was... funny. I got there wayyyy too early and despite being ready physically (we can do all the obstacles) Pepper was kind of shut down mentally so it resulted in this:






He made up for it in class this week.






Almost all of this class is off leash. Most of the video is from us "warming up" on leash. My sister forgot to video us actually practicing off leash until we were doing our runs at the very end!

Lesson learned: Don't come to your first agility trial 8 hours early. Pepper needs to get there like... 2 seconds before he runs.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Your videos show as "private" so we can't view them! I would love to see them though!


----------



## RabbleFox

Go ahead and try now! Sorry... I'm bad at uploading Youtube videos apparently.


----------



## kadylady

I had a great class this week! Usually I say that Zoey had a great class, but I had a great class this week!! (Of course so did great too...lol). We hadn't had class in 2 weeks due to a weather cancellation and this is the first class since I was at the agility trial. I really think watching the trail helped me click everything that we've been learning. My front crosses were great for the first time ever, I had been struggling with those but nailed them this week. We did some small sequences with some more difficult manuvers and I was shocked how well we did. I have been saying that I need to trust her more and watch her less and I did that this week and it went great. We were doing this sequence of 3 jumps in a line with a tunnel at the end and the first couple times we took the tunnel and then we did pulls away from the tunnel and Zoey nailed it every time! I think she is really getting the 2o2o contact as well. Next week is our last class and I'm going to try and get a video. Okay...gushing over! lol


----------



## DJEtzel

RabbleFox said:


> So we went to our first trial and it was... funny. I got there wayyyy too early and despite being ready physically (we can do all the obstacles) Pepper was kind of shut down mentally so it resulted in this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He made up for it in class this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost all of this class is off leash. Most of the video is from us "warming up" on leash. My sister forgot to video us actually practicing off leash until we were doing our runs at the very end!
> 
> Lesson learned: Don't come to your first agility trial 8 hours early. Pepper needs to get there like... 2 seconds before he runs.


From the looks of it, he's just not used to being in that big of an area and RUNNING a course. You practice in a very enclosed area, which I'm sure you're aware of. Videos from class look great though. What venue was the trial?


----------



## RabbleFox

The trial was at All Dogs Can, Lapeer Mi. Its about an hour away, one way. I really like their facility but a 2 hour's drive even once a week would cripple my gas tank. I'm still looking for a better open floor time facility. Something with more room and rubberized contact equipment is my goal. I have judged the A-frame to be too slippery without it being rubberized. I don't want to stress out Pepper's body on old equipment.

I'm really happy with the way he has been in class lately. Its unclear if I want to do 2o2o though. He has been relatively consistent with hitting them regardless of him bottoming out or not. I do have a "wait" command that I use on the teeter to slow him up and to make sure he makes the contact there but we haven't applied it to the dog walk or A-frame yet. It wasn't until we were working courses that Pepper started to drive through the weaves. We need more work on those, definitely. Here is to hoping to ground thaws out soon! I want to set my own weave poles back up again. We can do 6 poles but Pepper looks at me like the entire time so we're trying to wean him from that in class with the weaves a little bit more open.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Was the trial a CPE, AKC, USDAA trial or was it a fun match? What were your goals in entering? Did your class go? 

You may want to spend some time thinking about your contact criteria before doing too many repetitions of the contacts. You can always go back and build a behavior, but it's much harder to train the behaviors later. Under stress, many dogs will resort to what they learned first. If you are thinking of a 2o2o, I would train it right away. It's easy to get rid of the 2o2o behavior but hard to reinstall it. Take it from someone who learned the hard way! A lot of dogs will run contacts nicely in practice only to expode at trial. Seems like dogs either stress high or stress low. Looks like yours is likely to stress high! The "high" dogs are candidates for launching!

I am so glad that you are happy with your class! Looks like things are going great! 

Isn't agility awesome!


----------



## Laurelin

We did some good stuff this week. Unfortunately I started out this weeks' class by crashing into Mia and stomping down on her foot. That makes you feel fantastic... Getting some weave entrances going. It's going slowly. I am hoping to get them good enough to do the next round of weaves classes. They just started up one set but they need to be a little more advanced than mine are.

summer and I are starting a teamwork class today with a different instructor. So we will see how that goes. I kind of feel bad taking her and not Mia. That means Mia is training 1-2x a week now and Summer is training 3x a week at the training place. But my trainer and I agree that Summer is far less focused and more in need of distraction classes. I'm hoping to get Mia in the next round of these classes. 

I'm really hoping to start competition fall maybe early winter.

Oh and I will be at the AKC nationals all friday and hopefully Sunday morning next weekend! I have agility and nosework Sunday afternoon and distractions class on Saturday.

Ever feel like dogs are slowly becoming your life? lol But I'm really excited to get to see the nationals. Wish some other DFers were going.


----------



## RabbleFox

trainingjunkie said:


> Was the trial a CPE, AKC, USDAA trial or was it a fun match? *AKC trial. Next time I think I want to try to do some CPE. My instructor recommended it for us. A little more forgiving for newbies like us.* What were your goals in entering? *We went to check it out and see how he did. I didn't expect to Q. I was expecting a little bit more than a hoop and jump off the table but I realize I got him there too early and he was going nutty.* Did your class go? *My class did not go but one of my instructors was there running her dog.*
> 
> You may want to spend some time thinking about your contact criteria before doing too many repetitions of the contacts. You can always go back and build a behavior, but it's much harder to train the behaviors later. Under stress, many dogs will resort to what they learned first. If you are thinking of a 2o2o, I would train it right away. It's easy to get rid of the 2o2o behavior but hard to reinstall it. Take it from someone who learned the hard way! A lot of dogs will run contacts nicely in practice only to expode at trial. Seems like dogs either stress high or stress low. Looks like yours is likely to stress high! The "high" dogs are candidates for launching!
> 
> *Uh-oh... I would rather have him 2o2o than launching. I'm a bit worried about it (2o2o) stressing out his back but I think launching isn't a great alternative. I think I will try and transfer the "wait" command I use on the teeter to the other contacts. The only issue is the way I trained that was by hooking a finger in his collar, saying "wait" and gently stopping him where I wanted (I promise I'm not yanking him!). In class we running the contacts a couple times and he is expected to stop at the bottom using a treat and my voice. Pepper sees TREATS!!!! and hurries to the bottom and scampers off, as seen in the video. With the treats he is less inclined to stay on the obstacle! I believe in a pretty hands off approach to contacts considering its kind of like training wheels to have my hands on him but I can't think of another way to teach him to stop. Ideas?*
> 
> I am so glad that you are happy with your class! Looks like things are going great! *They are! Way less dogs and more dogs are at our level. Pepper was the best running the mini courses though... Nothing like a little friendly competition. Hahaha.*
> 
> Isn't agility awesome! *For sure!*


Laurelin... I always feel like my dog is moving too fast! Make it stoppppp!


----------



## LoMD13

So doing Jumpers on its very own day worked out well for us! We had a really nice lead-out, and Lo was fast and into it. And I didn't make any mistakes either. Our very first Jumpers Q.

Unfortunately she was pretty bad with Snooker today. Same old thing, slow, stopping and staring at me after 2 jumps and being just basically completely unmotivated to do anything at all. We probably won't trial again til winter, so hopefully by that time we can figure it out.


----------



## agility collie mom

Had a great weekend with Rio and friends at CPE. Eight runs, 7Q's with 7 Firsts. Not bad for a 8 year old dog and an "older lady" with not so great knees lol.


----------



## agility collie mom

RabbleFox said:


> The trial was at All Dogs Can, Lapeer Mi. Its about an hour away, one way. I really like their facility but a 2 hour's drive even once a week would cripple my gas tank. I'm still looking for a better open floor time facility. Something with more room and rubberized contact equipment is my goal. I have judged the A-frame to be too slippery without it being rubberized. I don't want to stress out Pepper's body on old equipment.
> 
> I'm really happy with the way he has been in class lately. Its unclear if I want to do 2o2o though. He has been relatively consistent with hitting them regardless of him bottoming out or not. I do have a "wait" command that I use on the teeter to slow him up and to make sure he makes the contact there but we haven't applied it to the dog walk or A-frame yet. It wasn't until we were working courses that Pepper started to drive through the weaves. We need more work on those, definitely. Here is to hoping to ground thaws out soon! I want to set my own weave poles back up again. We can do 6 poles but Pepper looks at me like the entire time so we're trying to wean him from that in class with the weaves a little bit more open.


Had a very good trainer with MAChs dog once tell me that he never taught only 6 weave poles he always taught twelve. The reason he gave is that the dog will have a tendency to pop out after the sixth pole. When I began training Rio in agility I didn't know any better and had 8 weave poles. Guess which pole he use to pop out at?


----------



## agility collie mom

LoMD13 said:


> So doing Jumpers on its very own day worked out well for us! We had a really nice lead-out, and Lo was fast and into it. And I didn't make any mistakes either. Our very first Jumpers Q.
> 
> Unfortunately she was pretty bad with Snooker today. Same old thing, slow, stopping and staring at me after 2 jumps and being just basically completely unmotivated to do anything at all. We probably won't trial again til winter, so hopefully by that time we can figure it out.


Congratulations to both of you!!!


----------



## CptJack

Does anyone know anything about equestrian sand as flooring for agility? Kylie's classes are held in an indoor riding arena, and they made a point of pointing out the sort of flooring so the humans would be appropriately shod and I got curious. It sounds awesome to me, but since I know nothing - I thought I'd ask.

(*Plus, you know, any contact with that trainer about anything and I bounce a little. I'm so excited.)


----------



## agility collie mom

CptJack said:


> Does anyone know anything about equestrian sand as flooring for agility? Kylie's classes are held in an indoor riding arena, and they made a point of pointing out the sort of flooring so the humans would be appropriately shod and I got curious. It sounds awesome to me, but since I know nothing - I thought I'd ask.
> 
> (*Plus, you know, any contact with that trainer about anything and I bounce a little. I'm so excited.)


As long as it is not too deep and they pack it correctly it is a wonderful surface to run on.


----------



## DJEtzel

CptJack said:


> Does anyone know anything about equestrian sand as flooring for agility? Kylie's classes are held in an indoor riding arena, and they made a point of pointing out the sort of flooring so the humans would be appropriately shod and I got curious. It sounds awesome to me, but since I know nothing - I thought I'd ask.
> 
> (*Plus, you know, any contact with that trainer about anything and I bounce a little. I'm so excited.)


It's what many agility trainers prefer, from the sounds of it. I've never ran on it, but many, MANY do.

Good luck/have fun btw! We will need to see pictures and videos.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our two days of Agility at our first trial of the year went good in spots but no Q's. Remmy got the zoomies the first class and did a few extra obstacles but always came back to do the right one. Then he was doing really well in his Advanced Snooker class and could have easily Q'd but he tripped just before a jump and crashed it. It was a metal jump with a solid metal bar across the bottom so he hit it hard and was really shaking his head but seemed alright when I took him out of the ring.

The next day he did super good in his Master Gamblers and got the really tough closing Gamble with it's five obstacles but I had counted wrong and he needed one more point. Was really pleased though as not many made it. In his first Masters Standard he just seemed to run out of energy and although he did everything, he was really slow and I had to really work at keeping him going. Not another trial until May.


----------



## kadylady

We successfully completed our second 8 week agility this tonight! About a 4 week break before the next class. I got a video of our long sequence. The first tunnel got cut off and my awesome front cross between the jump and chute got cut out but you can see Zoey lined up good for it, that made me super happy. We had a little trouble at the end, she was not feeling the tire jump tonight and was loving the dog walk. But overall I'm so thrilled with where we are at! Zoey is just eating this up.


----------



## agility collie mom

Very nice!


----------



## CptJack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP8FiXAzCRg

I watched this. I am no longer concerned about Kylie making a fool of me.


----------



## KyjenPaul

Hi Lexipup!

I work for a company that designs starter agility kits. They make excellent starting points for teaching your pup agility on your own: https://shop.kyjen.com/dog-agility-starter-kit.html

Check em out, and let me know if you have any questions!


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP8FiXAzCRg
> 
> I watched this. I am no longer concerned about Kylie making a fool of me.


Lolie likes to try very hard to make a fool of me at least once per trial. She will consistently do one perfect, fast, outstanding run and then follow it up with a horrid one. :laugh: And of course, I didn't even get the good one on video! 
This was our very sorry attempt at Snooker in the last trial! 






Our class was very nice this week-- we did some very short tricky sequences, worked on Weave poles, Pre-Qs and lead outs. Our weave poles are finally getting there, she can do them REALLY nice on the left but is much less confident on the right.


----------



## LoMD13

One thing I tried to do this week was to try and get Lolie to be interested in a toy at class. At home she's VERY toy motivated and will actually be much faster and snappier when I'm rewarding with a toy. At class, she had pretty much zero interest in it and only had eyes for the hot dogs. So I think I'm going to take her toys out to some different public places and try to get her interested in them.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Fun run from today! Happy with a lot of stuff, especially how her contacts are coming along (only been doing 2o2o for 3 weeks now, though she did learn "how" to do it in foundations class way back). I do need to work on her drive coming off of the contact obstacles, and her weave speed will hopefully keep improving with every new place we run/trial at. 






We also love rear crosses LOL.


----------



## samshine

LoMD13 said:


> One thing I tried to do this week was to try and get Lolie to be interested in a toy at class. At home she's VERY toy motivated and will actually be much faster and snappier when I'm rewarding with a toy. At class, she had pretty much zero interest in it and only had eyes for the hot dogs. So I think I'm going to take her toys out to some different public places and try to get her interested in them.


I had the same problem, my girl is ball crazy at home but not at class or trials. So I got her one of these and it worked wonders. Put some smelly treats in the middle. http://www.amazon.com/Premier-Rip-Tug-Lotus-Small/dp/B006QMYS9K Some dogs like to bring it back to the owner to open up, but my girl is just thrilled with the fact that she can get it open herself. I think she feels especially smart and proud of herself. ;-) 

I could never get her to tug, and wished she would in hopes of improving her focus. So I got the same kind of thing but on a rope. Worked like a charm, she's instantly into the tug game. http://www.amazon.com/Petsafe-Busy-Buddy-Rip-Small/dp/B00520ELEY/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_2


----------



## Kyllobernese

http://youtu.be/RA6tzvl_c-k http://youtu.be/lI8RYs9n_po

LoMD13's round made me think if Remmy's round last weekend in Masters Standard. He really did not want to do it. He ended up with a clear round but way over time. In the other video he had a really good round in Masters Gambler but I miscounted and was one point short but he did the closing which not many dogs did.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Ugliest Excellent Standard Q Possibly Ever. But hey, my first excellent standard Q!


----------



## Sibe

Woohoooo!!!! Ugly or pretty, you did it!! Congrats


----------



## trainingjunkie

Sibe said:


> Woohoooo!!!! Ugly or pretty, you did it!! Congrats


Thanks! And when you get right down to it, are there "really" any Ugly Q's???


----------



## agility collie mom

Whoo hoo a Q, a Q!!!! Congratulations training junkie and your smiling little pittie!


----------



## agility collie mom

Had a really good agility instructor have to retire from agility because of medical issues. I sent him this in a e-mail:

You were making us think which is what agility is all about. It is like you are in a dark room trying to connect with your dog and at first the light just flashes when you make the connection. It is so brief at first that you really have to think about it to try and figure out what you did. Pretty soon the light flashes more often and for longer periods as you become a team. Then the light is on more often than off. Finally the light is on all the time and it is brillant. (But even then every once in awhile the light goes off but, such is life.) 
You have given me the thinking skills to work through on my journey to find that light. For that I thank you. 
We learn all of our lives when we close the door to learning we indeed shortchange ourselves. Our dogs teach us so much and ask for so little in return.

Each run we do is a gift of time with our dogs. We should rejoice in the time spent with them.


----------



## samshine

Well put agility collie mom. We had the light stay on a while at training class tonight. 

We walked the course and when our turn came up everything just flowed and it seemed smooth and easy. My girl was running fast but not out of control. Felt good! Then after everybody ran we gathered and the teacher told us that this course was from the finals at the agility championships last weekend. And we rocked it!! :whoo:

Now I am really looking forward to the trial this weekend. Our first weekend completely in Open.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

I found out yesterday that for four weeks this summer, I have a conflict with my normal class time, and it's not something I can get out of :-( Although I really hate to miss four weeks with my normal (incredibly great) instructor, I think I'm going to ask to transfer into another class for those four weeks. This is the class I transferred out of last fall, but I did it politely and I made it very clear that I wasn't unhappy with the instruction at all - just wanted to try someone different. I still have a good relationship with my former instructors. I feel bad about asking back into the class, even temporarily, but they'll understand. They keep telling me that they miss seeing me and Kit every week, so maybe they'll look at it as a good thing. The way things are set up here, the class fee that I pay goes to the same place no matter which class I take.

We have a trial in April and another in July. I'm thinking those could be my last NADAC trials. I'm graduating next quarter, and hopefully moving, if I can find a job. I'll continue with NADAC if it's available in my new area, but if not, then I'll have to move to a new venue. My first choice would be USDAA. The only venue I absolutely won't do is AKC - I'd rather quit trialing.


----------



## Laurelin

We're looking at possibly entering novice non weave classes in NADAC in June or July. Excited and nervous.  the girls are both doing well in class lately. Having some issues with driving forward on a rear cross. I think I may have poisoned the signal to drive forward ('Go!') by my tendency to say 'gogogogogo!' when I want them to pick up speed. Do you guys have a word to ramp up the dog? Someone suggested hurry but I don't know that I could really change my tendency to sya gogogogo. I didn't realize I did it at all until my trainer pointed out that I was.

AKC nationals was an awesome experience. The first really big trial I've been to and a lot of fun. Sunday's challengers were probably the most fun to watch. Lots of crowd participation. I didn't get to see the finals though- I drove back to my city for our Sunday class.


----------



## Sibe

I don't have a word to ramp her up as I'm finding it's better for her to be calm and collected than ramped up and excited (some do awesome when ramped up! nothing wrong with getting her ramped up). In reading Control Unleashed, there was a case where the more the handler got excited and tried to ramp up the dog the more slowly it moved as it was trying to tell the handler to calm down haha. 

I see many handlers saying "go on" when they do a rear cross, or when the dog has a straight line, to mean "just go! take what's in front of you! i'll be here, I'll catch up!" 

Maybe take some time to practice rear crosses. Have two jumps, offset so you can run straight but she has to cross between them, if that makes sense. Get a good running start, say your "go" as you toss a toy over the second jump and cross. See if that helps her drive over it. Practice until she seems to get it, then try without the toy. Then try crossing on a tunnel where you can't throw a toy (you can roll a ball through it though).

You also have to make sure she's out in front of you in order to do a rear cross. I've been too quick on rears sometimes and end up next to her or even in front of her. If you stop or decelerate in the middle of a rear it's confusing for the dog.


----------



## agility collie mom

Have you played race to reward with her? Or aim it?


----------



## Spazmelda

Lenny and I had our first agility class today. It was fun. He was a little rambunctious, I think because he had just been boarded for 4 nights.

They gave us orientation for about 30 minutes without the dogs where we learned about clicker training, setting up equipment, what types of treats to use, etc...

Then we set up some baby equipment and got the dogs. We started with getting the dogs to relax on a mat that we brought from home. We a supposed to practice that at home and will do it for 5 minutes at the beginning of each class. Lenny wasn't too great at that. He kept wanting to get up and meet the other dogs.

Then we split into two groups. One group let the dogs explore the equipment and the other worked on shadowing. Lenny loved the equipment. Basically there were a few wobble boards, a ladder laid on the ground, a barrel (like a baby tunnel), some boards painted blue and yellow (like a baby dog walk), and some boxes to eventually practice 2o2o. Lenny loved the wobble boards, and walked on the flat boards like a champ. He was lured through the tunnel a few times and seemed okay with it. We didn't do the ladder, but I may lay one out at home and practice that here.

Then we practiced shadowing. The way they had us do this was to pass the leash behind us and have the dogs on our right. We offered treats from the right hand, level with the dog's mouth and right at the seam of our pants. Basically they wanted the dogs licking our hands while walking, then about every 5 steps a click and treat from the hand they were licking. This was difficult, but Lenny did okay. He more nibbled at my hand than licked, but I guess that was alright.

We also played the cardboard box game of having them get all 4 feet in a cardboard box. Oh, we also did touch. Lenny was good at that.

We don't have class next week, so I will practice shadowing, mat time, the cardboard box game, and touch. All in all it was fun.

ETA: a few more things I forgot... Sit at the side and stay. Rewarding for looking at your face, and shoot... At least one other thing I can't remember.


----------



## agility collie mom

Sounds like you had a great first class! Make sure you do your homework it is so important. http://www.dogforums.com/images/smilies/smilies/clap2.gif


----------



## Spazmelda

agility collie mom said:


> Sounds like you had a great first class! Make sure you do your homework it is so important. http://www.dogforums.com/images/smilies/smilies/clap2.gif


Yes. I even worked on a few things this afternoon. I had to write them an email to clarify what they are wanting us to do with the sit stay. I was confused because sometimes they wanted the dog in front of us, and sometimes to the side, and I wasn't sure what direction we were supposed to be moving while the dogs were staying. They kind of ran through that at the end and I didn't get it. I need to know for sure, so we can practice it.


----------



## CptJack

Congratulations, Spazmelda! It sounds like you guys had a blast!

Kylie and I start on Tuesday. I'm nervous. She always acts like a dork when she's somewhere brand new and being introduced to new things. Not loud or obnoxious just... air headed. It never lasts long, so I'm hoping we can avoid getting kicked out in the first twenty minutes because she's pretending she doesn't know her name, much less anything else.


----------



## DJEtzel

CptJack said:


> Congratulations, Spazmelda! It sounds like you guys had a blast!
> 
> Kylie and I start on Tuesday. I'm nervous. She always acts like a dork when she's somewhere brand new and being introduced to new things. Not loud or obnoxious just... air headed. It never lasts long, so I'm hoping we can avoid getting kicked out in the first twenty minutes because she's pretending she doesn't know her name, much less anything else.


You'd be so surprised at the number of dogs who act totally fine at home or out in the pet store that do this. Many wont even take treats or sit during the first class they take. If a trainer isn't willing to be patient and work through some "air-headed"ness, they're probably not the trainer for you anyway. 

But relax, you'll be fine and Kylie will have a blast, even if she doesn't obey a sinle command.  And no one there is out to prove anything, anyway. Good luck! I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes!!

Recon and I have our handling class tonight which is pretty much centered around using no or very little arm movements on course and teaching dogs to drive. It's really interesting and fun because this is my first time with a new trainer and she's so different and gives us a lot of feedback. She's a little close minded (no treats, only toys... No "here", only the dog's name) but it is for a good reason, at least. Recon has been so happy being able to run full courses again, as we haven't been able to over the winter because we don't have an arena. He's doing great focusing in such a big new area, and his 2o2o is coming along FABULOUSLY. We're starting an intro to agility class next week even though we've advanced through three classes above that already because we will be moving outside, so he gets to learn everything all over on the grass.  He's starting to get chatty on course, too, which I don't know if I hate or love, as of yet.


----------



## Spazmelda

CptJack, I was kind of worried about that too, especially since Lenny had just been boarded. A lot of the other dogs were very distracted as well on the first day. Probably not as badly as Lenny, but definitely distracted. I know that Lenny was kind of goofy for the entire first session of the obedience class we took (although he still did well) and I was embarrassed. Lol, kind of like when your kids act all crazy.

But, I'm sure the trainers know this. In fact I think they mentioned several times that it would take the dogs a while to get used to the whole thing.


----------



## CptJack

Spazmelda said:


> CptJack, I was kind of worried about that too, especially since Lenny had just been boarded. A lot of the other dogs were very distracted as well on the first day. Probably not as badly as Lenny, but definitely distracted. I know that Lenny was kind of goofy for the entire first session of the obedience class we took (although he still did well) and I was embarrassed. Lol, kind of like when your kids act all crazy.
> 
> But, I'm sure the trainers know this. In fact I think they mentioned several times that it would take the dogs a while to get used to the whole thing.





DJEtzel said:


> You'd be so surprised at the number of dogs who act totally fine at home or out in the pet store that do this. Many wont even take treats or sit during the first class they take. If a trainer isn't willing to be patient and work through some "air-headed"ness, they're probably not the trainer for you anyway.



This is what I'm figuring, when the logical half of my brain is working. The more anxiety ridden part of me is still, honestly, looking for excuses NOT to go, and blaming the dog. I know me. I'm nervous about dealing with new people and doing new things. Once I've gone ONCE, I will be over it and fine. 

And Kylie is going to probably be shy, refuse to do anything and just generally take at least one class to chill. It's a 7 week class, and most of the training is at home, anyway. It'll be fine and I know it, and it'll be GOOD for me. I just need to keep consistently shutting down the part of me that would rather stay home


----------



## LoMD13

Lo's been in classes for a long time now, but every time a new session starts and there are different dogs and a different vibe, she's completely thrown off her game. Don't worry about a thing, you'll have fun!


----------



## Sibe

Denali did not get a Q today in Open JWW but she had an amazing run! She missed her weave entry (I think I didn't slow down/turn enough to cue her which way we were going?) so we had to redo those which count as one Refusal. Then she crashed a landing, recovered and did the next couple jumps but I think was still dazed from the crash and didn't really see the third and she ran around it. Another Refusal. You can only have 1 in order to Qualify in Open. Overall she was very focused, relaxed while being energetic and fast, she didn't stop to sniff except when she missed the weaves, and she was great start to finish! So proud of her 






Oh, and this is the site where planes are taking off which is what that loud noise is!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Nice run! Looks like she just needed you to shape the weave entry a little bit, but that's just a tiny bobble! Nice run! I love how poised and calm she is! Wonderful!

What a crash though! Wow! It's great that she pulled it together and kept working!

Good job!


----------



## Sibe

I really didn't decel as much as I'd planned! The jump right before the weaves has a dummy jump next to it so I was too focused on making sure I kept her straight and away from that. She recovered great though and when I said "reeeeady?" she bounced back into them with enthusiasm, and that made me very happy as previously we've had issues where she stressed on the weaves and looked miserable doing them. I'm super happy that she's back to loving them.

I was VERY happy with how poised and calm she was. I think reading Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt has really helped me to get her in the right zone. So often you see people revving their dogs up and that just doesn't work for us. Since that doesn't work and causes her to get zoomies and be a total spaz I didn't know what to do to get her ready! Control Unleashed made me realize she needs to be calm and focused, not excited. She can still be very fast when she's relaxed! So before our run I had been walking her around encouraging her to go potty, instead of spending a lot of time with the practice jump I just had her jump it twice, and really we just walked around until the runs started. Small class so then I stayed kind of near the gate and was "present" with her as described in the book. Calm, slow gentle petting, chatting with people instead of focusing and stressing about our run (I was still thinking about it and focused, but in a different way).

I still had ring nerves and before our run suddenly needed to pee, I could feel that my heart was beating a little faster and could feel a bit of adrenaline and tight stomach and such but not as bad as it usually is! I'm also more aware of it now. I find it odd I get ring nerves so bad when I'm totally relaxed in class.


----------



## CptJack

It is entirely possible that we will not be starting agility tonight. In spite of ASKING, and digging around the website about required documentation to begin classes at that facility, I have just found something buried (deeply, in another section) of their website saying they want a specific sort of letter from the vet before dogs do anything at their facility. It is possible that I'm still fine, and what I was told was correct. It is more possible that what's on the site, buried under daycare (but with 'training' added to the header) that it is not. I'm not making the trip to find out I can't be there; it's an hour away, each way. I'm waiting to hear back now.

I have never been more irritated in my life.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> This is what I'm figuring, when the logical half of my brain is working. The more anxiety ridden part of me is still, honestly, looking for excuses NOT to go, and blaming the dog. I know me. I'm nervous about dealing with new people and doing new things. Once I've gone ONCE, I will be over it and fine.
> 
> And Kylie is going to probably be shy, refuse to do anything and just generally take at least one class to chill. It's a 7 week class, and most of the training is at home, anyway. It'll be fine and I know it, and it'll be GOOD for me. I just need to keep consistently shutting down the part of me that would rather stay home


Watson acts like a total idiot in class most of the time (and he's been going to the same place for months). You'll be fine :-D I've learned that people think the spazzy dogs are the cutest ones. I can't tell you how many times I've had people come up and tell me how adorable Watson is and how much they love him - I was more focused on how embarrassing he was, but cute works too.

I've often run a simple rally course (speed up, slow down, right turn, etc) three times because the first two times his brain doesn't seem to be turned on and he's running all over. By the third time he's like "Ohhh! This is what we're doing! Why didn't you say so!" and is perfect. Such are puppies.

Kylie is going to have so much fun! I can't wait when you can post videos of her running some equipment. I hope everything works out with your paperwork and you're able to go tonight.

ETA: He also lifted his leg and peed on a tunnel the first time he saw one (in the indoor training facility that he has never once peed in, even at 11 weeks old). So at least that probably won't happen with Kylie, right?


----------



## CptJack

Okay. They told me the truth, rather than the website. I am good to go with a waiver.

Also: Yeah, it's unlikely that she pees on the tunnel/hikes her leg. Though Bug probably would 

I AM SO EXCITED AGAIN NOW. And I really want to get video of her someday. She's going to have a blast.


----------



## Spazmelda

CptJack said:


> Okay. They told me the truth, rather than the website. I am good to go with a waiver.
> 
> Also: Yeah, it's unlikely that she pees on the tunnel/hikes her leg. Though Bug probably would
> 
> I AM SO EXCITED AGAIN NOW. And I really want to get video of her someday. She's going to have a blast.


Yay! I was hopeful that it would work out okay.


----------



## CptJack

Spazmelda said:


> Yay! I was hopeful that it would work out okay.


Apparently the agility trainer just uses the facility. So the facility's rules and trainer's rules aren't the same. Awkward, but YAY!


----------



## CptJack

I am trying to get my brain sorted out enough to update with actual information about the first class, for anyone else who might be reading this.

2 trainers and either 10 or 11 dogs (I think it was 11, but for the life of me I can not remember what that 11th dog was). The facility was really nice, if cold as heck. If next week is this cold, I'm putting Kylie in a sweater.

Class itself was a short evaluation of what the dogs already knew, a few recall exercises, and then 'targeting'. For the purposes of this class, the target is a lid on the ground that one of the trainers put food on. The exercise was to have the trainer get the dog's attention, run the dog to the target, have them run to get the food, and then keep them moving. Homework is watch me, loading a verbal marker (they don't want clickers while we're trying to learn, because there's so much other stuff going on, though pointed out the advantages is other situations), and the targeting. 

My worries about Kylie were completely unfounded. While she WAS reserved and slower to take the food off the target/lid/thing with the trainer crouched down right there, she did it and I think as she warms up she'll do better. She had no issue at all performing or taking treats (from me), and her recall cracked up the whole class it was so enthusiastic and fast. She also didn't have issues with having her leash held by one of the trainers so I could walk away TO call her. She was fine with the other dogs, and really really wants to be BFF with the dog closest to us (a golden), but not to the degree that she was distracted or a distraction. The trainers LOVED her and spent a lot of time trying to figure out what she was (surprise) and finding her adorable and awesome.

Most of the dogs seem reasonably well behaved, their owners overall seem to have a clue about dogs in general and their dogs in particular. No one was in Kylie's face, forcing interaction on her, or making a big deal out of her being a bit reserved with the people - including the trainers, which was nice. Kylie came out bouncing off the walsl, fell asleep after 2 minutes in the car and slept the rest of the hour ride home. She is now yapping at me to throw her ball, but she obviously had a really, really good time. Totally worth it, and I'm looking forward to next week.


----------



## DJEtzel

CptJack said:


> I am trying to get my brain sorted out enough to update with actual information about the first class, for anyone else who might be reading this.
> 
> 2 trainers and either 10 or 11 dogs (I think it was 11, but for the life of me I can not remember what that 11th dog was). The facility was really nice, if cold as heck. If next week is this cold, I'm putting Kylie in a sweater.
> 
> Class itself was a short evaluation of what the dogs already knew, a few recall exercises, and then 'targeting'. For the purposes of this class, the target is a lid on the ground that one of the trainers put food on. The exercise was to have the trainer get the dog's attention, run the dog to the target, have them run to get the food, and then keep them moving. Homework is watch me, loading a verbal marker (they don't want clickers while we're trying to learn, because there's so much other stuff going on, though pointed out the advantages is other situations), and the targeting.
> 
> My worries about Kylie were completely unfounded. While she WAS reserved and slower to take the food off the target/lid/thing with the trainer crouched down right there, she did it and I think as she warms up she'll do better. She had no issue at all performing or taking treats (from me), and her recall cracked up the whole class it was so enthusiastic and fast. She also didn't have issues with having her leash held by one of the trainers so I could walk away TO call her. She was fine with the other dogs, and really really wants to be BFF with the dog closest to us (a golden), but not to the degree that she was distracted or a distraction. The trainers LOVED her and spent a lot of time trying to figure out what she was (surprise) and finding her adorable and awesome.
> 
> Most of the dogs seem reasonably well behaved, their owners overall seem to have a clue about dogs in general and their dogs in particular. No one was in Kylie's face, forcing interaction on her, or making a big deal out of her being a bit reserved with the people - including the trainers, which was nice. Kylie came out bouncing off the walsl, fell asleep after 2 minutes in the car and slept the rest of the hour ride home. She is now yapping at me to throw her ball, but she obviously had a really, really good time. Totally worth it, and I'm looking forward to next week.


Yay! Awesome! Go kylie! Glad you had a good first night of class!

Recon and I start our outdoor intro to agility class tomorrow night.  His Thursday night handling class is a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to being able to work with him two nights a week instead of just one!


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> I am trying to get my brain sorted out enough to update with actual information about the first class, for anyone else who might be reading this.
> 
> 2 trainers and either 10 or 11 dogs (I think it was 11, but for the life of me I can not remember what that 11th dog was). The facility was really nice, if cold as heck. If next week is this cold, I'm putting Kylie in a sweater.
> 
> Class itself was a short evaluation of what the dogs already knew, a few recall exercises, and then 'targeting'. For the purposes of this class, the target is a lid on the ground that one of the trainers put food on. The exercise was to have the trainer get the dog's attention, run the dog to the target, have them run to get the food, and then keep them moving. Homework is watch me, loading a verbal marker (they don't want clickers while we're trying to learn, because there's so much other stuff going on, though pointed out the advantages is other situations), and the targeting.
> 
> My worries about Kylie were completely unfounded. While she WAS reserved and slower to take the food off the target/lid/thing with the trainer crouched down right there, she did it and I think as she warms up she'll do better. She had no issue at all performing or taking treats (from me), and her recall cracked up the whole class it was so enthusiastic and fast. She also didn't have issues with having her leash held by one of the trainers so I could walk away TO call her. She was fine with the other dogs, and really really wants to be BFF with the dog closest to us (a golden), but not to the degree that she was distracted or a distraction. The trainers LOVED her and spent a lot of time trying to figure out what she was (surprise) and finding her adorable and awesome.
> 
> Most of the dogs seem reasonably well behaved, their owners overall seem to have a clue about dogs in general and their dogs in particular. No one was in Kylie's face, forcing interaction on her, or making a big deal out of her being a bit reserved with the people - including the trainers, which was nice. Kylie came out bouncing off the walsl, fell asleep after 2 minutes in the car and slept the rest of the hour ride home. She is now yapping at me to throw her ball, but she obviously had a really, really good time. Totally worth it, and I'm looking forward to next week.


Sounds like you found a really nice group!!! Looking forward to seeing how fast she progresses. We use the same kind of target, it's really good for teaching 2o2o.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Sounds like you found a really nice group!!! Looking forward to seeing how fast she progresses. We use the same kind of target, it's really good for teaching 2o2o.


I think she'll pick it up fine. But the combination of what is for her a REALLY low value treat (string cheese) and a stranger RIGHT THERE was just a little much. 

Oh and the other thing: Equestrian sand is very good but it's also HECK on shoes.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> I think she'll pick it up fine. But the combination of what is for her a REALLY low value treat (string cheese) and a stranger RIGHT THERE was just a little much.
> 
> Oh and the other thing: Equestrian sand is very good but it's also HECK on shoes.


Oh I'd bring higher value treats next time! Not THE highest value, but fairly high value. For Lo I use hot dogs, because they are so easy to cut up into teeny teeny pieces. When she was having teeter worries, i brought out the big guns- meatballs.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Oh I'd bring higher value treats next time! Not THE highest value, but fairly high value. For Lo I use hot dogs, because they are so easy to cut up into teeny teeny pieces. When she was having teeter worries, i brought out the big guns- meatballs.


I had high value treats she cared about? They... insisted on using string cheese they brought/had/provided for this. I have NO IDEA why. It was kind of strange and awkward since Kylie's opinion of string cheese is more or less 'why do I have to eat this stuff?'. ...I brought homemade beef liver jerky. I was POPULAR.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> I had high value treats she cared about? They... insisted on using string cheese they brought/had/provided for this. I have NO IDEA why. It was kind of strange and awkward since Kylie's opinion of string cheese is more or less 'why do I have to eat this stuff?'. ...I brought homemade beef liver jerky. I was POPULAR.


Oh that's kind of weird. Maybe ask at the beginning next week if you can use your own stuff since she doesn't really care for cheese? The results will probably speak for themselves. Lo would be less than enthusiastic about agility if all we used were low value treats.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Oh that's kind of weird. Maybe ask at the beginning next week if you can use your own stuff since she doesn't really care for cheese? The results will probably speak for themselves. Lo would be less than enthusiastic about agility if all we used were low value treats.


It was just this one exercise with the cheese, and I THINK it was because it was done as a running circle. As in the trainer dropped the treat on the target, the person went, dog got the treat, kept going, next person went? So everyone providing their own treats would have been awkward. There is just. There's no way that between the stranger and boring treat she was going to get into it. I mean she figured out what the point WAS, but she was just blah. I'm hoping I can load the target itself over the next week for her to go to.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> It was just this one exercise with the cheese, and I THINK it was because it was done as a running circle. As in the trainer dropped the treat on the target, the person went, dog got the treat, kept going, next person went? So everyone providing their own treats would have been awkward. There is just. There's no way that between the stranger and boring treat she was going to get into it. I mean she figured out what the point WAS, but she was just blah. I'm hoping I can load the target itself over the next week for her to go to.


The only other thing I can think of is maybe give her your own treat once you caught up to her, little bit of a lag but as long as you give her a marker word she would probably get it.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> The only other thing I can think of is maybe give her your own treat once you caught up to her, little bit of a lag but as long as you give her a marker word she would probably get it.


Oh, that's a good idea. Since she's just supposed to hit the target, I can 'yes' and reward her myself. Will remember to ask about that at the next class to see if they'll let it go at that.


----------



## elrohwen

I'm glad you guys had such a good time! I hope you keep updating about it, since I'm very interested to learn what a beginning agility class is all about. I only really know what finished agility looks like, but I have no idea on foundations, so I'll learn what I have to look forward to.


----------



## Kyllobernese

That would not have worked for Lucy. Our instructor was going to use her for demonstrating going over a low jump and there was no way Lucy was going to co-operate, she does not like strangers. We used the same targeting, a lid, and Lucy learned it really fast and loves the 
2o2o with the target. I am anxious for our weather to warm up and get rid of the snow so we can go back to training. We have two Saturdays in April, then the Instructor will be taking her equipment home and will start to have classes at her place which is good as all of Lucy's training so far has been in an arena.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I'm glad you guys had such a good time! I hope you keep updating about it, since I'm very interested to learn what a beginning agility class is all about. I only really know what finished agility looks like, but I have no idea on foundations, so I'll learn what I have to look forward to.


I will. I'm kind of interested in seeing how it all comes together, too, and figured other people getting a report from these early stages might demystify it a little, reassure some folks and maybe even inspire some other people to give it a go since it's not intimidating broken down. Also! Little Miss is STILL ASLEEP. She woke up to pee this morning and went back to bed. That has NEVER HAPPENED.



Kyllobernese said:


> That would not have worked for Lucy. Our instructor was going to use her for demonstrating going over a low jump and there was no way Lucy was going to co-operate, she does not like strangers. We used the same targeting, a lid, and Lucy learned it really fast and loves the 2o2o with the target. I am anxious for our weather to warm up and get rid of the snow so we can go back to training. We have two Saturdays in April, then the Instructor will be taking her equipment home and will start to have classes at her place which is good as all of Lucy's training so far has been in an arena.


Yeah. I may send the trainer and email and ask more specifically about putting the target touch on a marker and let her skip picking food up from it in class, or trying to get to that point and giving her the reward myself after we've moved along since she's so slow about picking it up. She WILL warm up to the trainers, I suspect, but that's just not happening immediately. 

Also: getting to shift locations sounds REALLY useful and fun!


----------



## agility collie mom

CptJack said:


> It was just this one exercise with the cheese, and I THINK it was because it was done as a running circle. As in the trainer dropped the treat on the target, the person went, dog got the treat, kept going, next person went? So everyone providing their own treats would have been awkward. There is just. There's no way that between the stranger and boring treat she was going to get into it. I mean she figured out what the point WAS, but she was just blah. I'm hoping I can load the target itself over the next week for her to go to.


Ask again next week and explain once again that the cheese is not a high value treat for her. I teach that exercise in foundations class also and the other instructor and I use everyone's treats that they bring. You know what will make your dog do back flips they do not. Meatballs and liver are "puppy crack" for my two little ones, Cheese not so much.


----------



## CptJack

agility collie mom said:


> Ask again next week and explain once again that the cheese is not a high value treat for her. I teach that exercise in foundations class also and the other instructor and I use everyone's treats that they bring. You know what will make your dog do back flips they do not. Meatballs and liver are "puppy crack" for my two little ones, Cheese not so much.


Will do. Thank you!


----------



## agility collie mom

Have a dog in class that is not comfortable around strangers so when we do the retrained recalls (lead out exercise) I take treats from Mom and at first just dropped them on the floor next to her and didn't even look at her, held her leash lightly because she was uncomfortable with being held by her collar. She is getting more comfortable with me but, I do not push her personal space. She had some issues about being too far from Mom at first so we cut the distance in half for her. I am starting to get a butt wag (aussie) and she is driving forward to and away from Mom.


----------



## CptJack

agility collie mom said:


> Have a dog in class that is not comfortable around strangers so when we do the retrained recalls (lead out exercise) I take treats from Mom and at first just dropped them on the floor next to her and didn't even look at her, held her leash lightly because she was uncomfortable with being held by her collar. She is getting more comfortable with me but, I do not push her personal space. She had some issues about being too far from Mom at first so we cut the distance in half for her. I am starting to get a butt wag (aussie) and she is driving forward to and away from Mom.


Kylie's not all that bad, honestly. She isn't comfortable with strange people petting or picking her up, but holding her by the collar or leash while I walk off are okay (no problem with the recall to me exercise), and she'll go in front of me with some gusto when I tell her to go. The combination of having someone crouched down right there and being expected to stop and eat is just enough to slow her WAAAAY down and make her cautious. I think if we can work with it some here so she understands what's going on better, and use a higher value treat, she'll get over it really fast.

Heck, by the end of the month I half expect her to be crazy about the trainers. She's just slow to warm up to people and needs them not to be foolish with her. Fortunately, these people look like they know what they're doing.


----------



## CptJack

As something almost irrelevant, but I found interesting:

There is not a single border collie in our class. 

We have a beagle, a greyhound, a golden, a GSD, an aussieXstandard poodle, an aussie, a MAS, a pit, a boxerXhound, and Kylie. I still think I'm forgetting someone, but the point remains: No Border Collies. I probably shouldn't be surprised, but I kind of am. I also thought it was kind of neat that about half the dogs in the class were older puppies (10-12 months), the rest were about 6 years old. ...and of course even the beagle is twice her size, but she is her: she didn't care. She is in LOVE with the aussie and golden.


----------



## Laurelin

I think the very first group session class can be intimidating/stressful for some dogs. Lots of distractions, lots of them trying to learn about the environment as well as the game. It's Kylie's first class, right? I wouldn't worry. I was all pumped about agility with Mia and her first class she was like '....' Boring and so not into it. Second class went much better and the third class she thought was SOFUN.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> I think the very first group session class can be intimidating/stressful for some dogs. Lots of distractions, lots of them trying to learn about the environment as well as the game. It's Kylie's first class, right? I wouldn't worry. I was all pumped about agility with Mia and her first class she was like '....' Boring and so not into it. Second class went much better and the third class she thought was SOFUN.


It was her first class, and she had a really good time - LOVED the restrained recall stuff, since it's so similar to games we played. I suspect she IS going to have more fun as time goes, though, and she gets used to the people and dogs there. By the time she left she was sniffing at the golden's owner and wagging her tail and being cute, which is a pretty big deal for her. I Do need to work on the target thing, and talk about using a different treat if we're doing that exercise next week, but eh. That's what homework's for .


----------



## agility collie mom

CptJack said:


> As something almost irrelevant, but I found interesting:
> 
> There is not a single border collie in our class.
> 
> We have a beagle, a greyhound, a golden, a GSD, an aussieXstandard poodle, an aussie, a MAS, a pit, a boxerXhound, and Kylie. I still think I'm forgetting someone, but the point remains: No Border Collies. I probably shouldn't be surprised, but I kind of am. I also thought it was kind of neat that about half the dogs in the class were older puppies (10-12 months), the rest were about 6 years old. ...and of course even the beagle is twice her size, but she is her: she didn't care. She is in LOVE with the aussie and golden.


Interesting mix of breeds. This is the first time that we have had two border collies in class in quite awhile. We have had everything from yorkies, boxer, pit mix, gsd, aussies, doxies, paps, wolfhound mix, redbone coonhound, berger picard, beagle, shelties, chihuahua, shep mixes, setter mix, cocker spaniel, spaniel mix, eskimo, husky, sammie, goldens, goldendoodle, poodles of all sizes, italian greyhound, whippet, cavaliers, scottish terriers, jrt and rotties are the ones I can remember. Of them all the ones that sticks in my memory the most was the wolfhound mix his handler was a young girl around 11-12. It was amazing how he would crouch down to go through the tunnel!


----------



## Sibe

CptJack said:


> As something almost irrelevant, but I found interesting:
> 
> There is not a single border collie in our class.
> 
> We have a beagle, a greyhound, a golden, a GSD, an aussieXstandard poodle, an aussie, a MAS, a pit, a boxerXhound, and Kylie. I still think I'm forgetting someone, but the point remains: No Border Collies. I probably shouldn't be surprised, but I kind of am. I also thought it was kind of neat that about half the dogs in the class were older puppies (10-12 months), the rest were about 6 years old. ...and of course even the beagle is twice her size, but she is her: she didn't care. She is in LOVE with the aussie and golden.


 Our class is Denali (husky), a Golden Retriever, 2 Irish Setters, two australian shepherds, a russell terrier, and a black GSD.


----------



## Laurelin

I would be prepared for a lot to drop out of foundations/after the first couple rounds of classes. That's always been my experience.

My regular class right now is: Mia, Summer, a boxery/pitty/pointery mix, a dog that looks like a black golden retreiver, and a supposed maltesexshih tzu but I think he is really a shih tzu/poodle and so does his owner. Mine are the only purebreds in class.

Distractions class: One shorthaired black mix (pit x ?), 2 aussies, 2-3 belgian tervurens depending on the day, 1 border collie, Summer, and then the shih tzu mix above.

We've had in the past BCs, Aussies, smooth collies, ACDs, german shepherds, malinois, JRT, a JRT x ACD, Giant schnauzer, boxer, and shelties in class. Probably more that I am not thinking of.

ETA: Distractions class is fun. I got run into by the border collie (my trainer's) going full blast last weekend. He's a goof, I really really like him. It's a funny thing though. I get to sit by the jumps waving a toy around or playing ball by myself in front of the tunnel. 

Summer's having some trouble with the heat. It's really worrying me to be honest. She was panting like crazy on Saturday when it was about 80 and humid outside. Kind of a small realization that Summer really isn't a young dog anymore.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

She looks SO GOOD, Sibe! Can't wait to see more of you guys 

Oh my class is a sea of black and white (4 BCs), then Kimma LOL.


----------



## LoMD13

Lola has been REALLY good for about the past month! She's *finally* got the hang of the weaves. She does them fantastic when she's on my right, and CAN do them now on my left but she gets frustrated and barks at me between poles. 

She also was doing really nice rear crosses today, which was something she really struggled with a lot in the past.


----------



## Sibe

Finkie_Mom said:


> She looks SO GOOD, Sibe! Can't wait to see more of you guys
> 
> Oh my class is a sea of black and white (4 BCs), then Kimma LOL.


 Thanks 

I'm so extremely happy with that run. Getting a Q would have been nice but I'm truly, honestly, completely 110% happy with how she ran. We're doing another Open JWW next Sunday.


----------



## DJEtzel

I've only taken one agility class that had a border collie in it, personally.

In our intro class there is Recon, an ACD mix, Mal, Pitx, PBGV mix, Corgi mix, Cocker Spaniel, and Newf. In our agility handling class there is Recon, and ACD mix, a lab, and a MAS. Border Collies aren't that popular in agility around here. 

Our first intro class outside was last night in town... It's our 4th class now, but the first outside so I went back to intro to back up and re-work foundations outside. Recon was kind of all over the place and was up and down in attention... We worked on flatwork crosses/post turns/etc. keeping the dog with us, and target lid work, then worked on targetting through tunnels, which Recon didn't want to do a few times even though it was condensed and he can run a full curved tunnel just fine, because it was outside I'm assuming. 

Tonight we have our handling class inside at a nice facility... I love this class. Last week we worked on threadles and had some nice challenges. I love threadles, and so does Recon with the new handling techniques we're learning. No arms, no hands, no "here", and no cueing every obstacle. It's interesting and we're learning a lot, and Recon's TUG is developing great, we're no longer using food for training and it's a blessing, he's focusing so much more on what he's doing now.


----------



## elrohwen

A couple weeks ago we attended a 2 day training seminar that combined heeling, agility, other obstacle work, and nosework. The mix was 3 Aussies, a golden, 2 GSDs, a rough collie, 2 standard poodles, a mini poodle, an ACD, 2 keeshonden, 2 bulldogs, 2 siberian huskies, a beagle, a Catahoula, and a couple labby looking mutts. Not a BC in sight except the one owned by the woman running the seminar. I love checking out the mix of breeds every time we start a new class. The vast majority seem to be labs and goldens in the obedience and handling classes I've been in.


----------



## Kyllobernese

When Lucy first started the targeting for 2o2o she would be so into getting the treat that I would have trouble making her move on as she was sure there must be more treats. It took a few classes before she would leave the target and move on. We have two Saturdays that are booked in April for us to go in and practice which will be nice.

They have started the other Obedience and Agility classes on Thursday nights. I cannot really call them training classes as everybody just goes around and does the obstacles, no foundation work, just do the obstacles. They call it Fun Agility but I feel sorry for people who take it thinking they are going to learn the right way of doing things. I go in and help set up the obstacles and take them down after the classes so I can get some practice in with Remmy after they are finished. I am so happy that I found an experienced trainer to start Lucy off the right way.


----------



## agility collie mom

Kyllobernese said:


> When Lucy first started the targeting for 2o2o she would be so into getting the treat that I would have trouble making her move on as she was sure there must be more treats. It took a few classes before she would leave the target and move on. We have two Saturdays that are booked in April for us to go in and practice which will be nice.
> 
> They have started the other Obedience and Agility classes on Thursday nights. I cannot really call them training classes as everybody just goes around and does the obstacles, no foundation work, just do the obstacles. They call it Fun Agility but I feel sorry for people who take it thinking they are going to learn the right way of doing things. I go in and help set up the obstacles and take them down after the classes so I can get some practice in with Remmy after they are finished. I am so happy that I found an experienced trainer to start Lucy off the right way.


Have been to a couple of classes like that once before I knew any better and recently to work on Savannah's start line stay (which was not the intention until I went to the one day "class"). Both were pretty scary with people dragging their dogs across equipment like the teeter and the dog walk. However Savannah was awesome with her stays while all the havoc reeked around her.


----------



## DJEtzel

We had our handling class last night. Recon was sort of all over the place. He was doing great running contacts on the frame and dog walk however. We were running an international course, so of course we had a little trouble, but in general it was a nice challenge and was fun.  We started macaroni weave work as well which we will be practicing a few times a week now, our instructor said it would be fine to start teaching him the idea now and add speed and jamming in after he turns a year or maybe 11 months. He picked it up REAL quick and I'm SOOO excited to keep working with this guy!


----------



## LoMD13

I'm starting to think Lola just hates trial environments. Even in run-throughs today she was very "Meh, I'll do everything correctly but I don't really want to". Dragging wicked bad. We'll probably give run-throughs a few more tries before we cut our losses and just keep havin fun in classes.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Glad to see some new folks getting into agility and joining this thread! Welcome!

Regarding the cheese thing:
First, I don't really like the idea of putting food on the target plate at all. Teach the dog that touching the target plate results in a reward from you. That way, the dog is concentrating on performing the job so they can obtain their reward from you, instead of having it appear from the environment. With highly food-motivated dogs, you could easily end up with a dog who thinks that food magically appears on course. Then they get distracted and look for food whenever they feel like it. Also, the food ends up acting like a lure if it's just sitting there, and instead of being mindful about performing the correct behavior to earn a reward, the dog just concentrates on food. There's a golden in my class who is a fantastic agility dog, but has major issues with contacts. Week after week, the owner puts food on a target plate at the contact. Guess what? Instead of collecting, the dog goes screaming down contact obstacles to get her food, then comes off whenever she's finished eating, instead of waiting for the release. And when there's no food/target plate she just leaps. She often takes contact obstacles even when they're not cued, because she's expecting food. This is a smart dog and I have no doubt that they could master contacts with no problem. But what they're doing just isn't working.

Regarding the instructors:
In an upper-level class, the instructor isn't going to interact with the dog at all. But in a beginning agility class, sometimes it's necessary. My advice is to minimize that interaction as much as possible. Your dog needs to learn that agility is something that they do with you, not with you and any other random people who might be hanging around. If the instructor needs to demonstrate something, they should use their own dog. Having instructors feed my dog in beginning agility classes caused me A LOT of frustration. My dog, who is extremely food motivated, thought that everyone she saw was a sucker who was going to feed her. She learned to run towards them for food and became more intent on them than on me. Later I had to go back and fix this before we could trial. The teeter was particularly difficult for us, not because my dog was afraid of it, but because she learned that there would be multiple people there to help tip it slowly and she would likely get a lot of food in the process. If she thought we were doing the teeter, she would go way over threshold before she even set foot on it. Once I got rid of the people and the food, the problem disappeared immediately.

My agility class consists of:
Two border collies, a mini poodle, a standard poodle, a corgi, a golden, a dalmation, an Aussie, and collie - all purebreds except Kit. On any given week, usually only around 6 or 7 dogs show up to run, so it's not overly full.


----------



## CptJack

I can't quote from the ipad, but teaching her to hit the target with her nose is what I ended up doing. She didn't understand what she was doing with just picking it up from the cottage cheese lid, besides running TO it. Since she already had a 'touch' to my hand, I just transferred it over. Much cleaner and honestly faster. 

No idea how it'll go down in class with the distractions and instructor right there, but we'll see!


----------



## Kyllobernese

I phased out the treats on the target pretty fast as Lucy seems to love doing the 2o2o and will do it consistently without a treat now. I have always done running contacts with Remmy and it works fine for him but Lucy is going to be way faster so thought I would try the 2o2o this time.

Her last class was on the 2nd of Feb. and no where to practice since then so can hardly wait till next Saturday to get back at it.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

CptJack said:


> I can't quote from the ipad, but teaching her to hit the target with her nose is what I ended up doing. She didn't understand what she was doing with just picking it up from the cottage cheese lid, besides running TO it. Since she already had a 'touch' to my hand, I just transferred it over. Much cleaner and honestly faster.
> 
> No idea how it'll go down in class with the distractions and instructor right there, but we'll see!


A nose touch should be fine. I'd be slightly hesitant with extremely drivey dogs because I've heard of dogs ramming their nose into it so hard that they end up with a bloody nose. But that's probably pretty rare.


----------



## Laurelin

They recommended nose touhes here but I already had them using their paws so I didn't see a need to change it.


----------



## Sibe

Denali's run yesterday was really good. I was fighting for her attention a bit as the course was extremely tight but overall she ran very well. One off course (which is not surprising given the course) which cost the Q. I wasn't confident about the course- I felt capable, but not very confident. Other than the wrong jump she did great, and her weave entry was OUTSTANDING. Coming off a pinwheel, which makes her fly, then a 90* turn into the weaves. She gathered herself very well and hopped right into them!

My instructor says I am the queen. It is always ONE thing! ONE knocked bar, ONE wrong course ONE too many refusals keeping us in Open JWW. We're still having fun and it's always that close, so we'll keep at it! For a while about this time last year I was getting very frustrated and burned out and left nearly in tears after a few trials wondering why I was wasting my time and money. I'm over that now. I'm able to see how much fun we're both having, and focus on the good.


----------



## Kyllobernese

That seems to be the same thing with Remmy trying to get his two Adanced Snooker so he is in Masters in everything. He was going great at his last trial only needed to take two more jumps when he tripped and smacked his nose on the bottom bar which was metal. Another time the flag on the teeter was turned inwards and he stopped as he would have had to duck around it. It is so hard to get the Snooker as usually they only have one Snooker class each trial, two of everything else like Jumpers and Gamblers in the Game section.

At our next trial the first of May, there is only one Snooker class, then there are no more trials till July. At least we will be camping at our summer trials which is fun anyway.


----------



## CptJack

I said I'd keep updating about the Foundations Class, since there was some interest, so.

Week 2.

Looks like the beagle dropped. I'm not entirely surprised - they were pretty put out by being asked to move to a verbal marker for the class, instead of using a clicker. 

Kylie was much more comfortable. I got there a little early and handed over some of my treats for the targeting exercises, and just to plain let both trainers give her a treat. Between having been there before and that, she blasted through the targeting stuff this time, with a lot more enthusiasm and a lot less caution. I had to remove the greyhound's nose from my pocket roughly 8 billion times, because he really, really, really wanted my chicken liver and he was right behind or beside me for the entire class. 

Actual content, to the best of my memory:
Talked about removing the cue from watch me and getting it on just a verbal, and how to do that.

Started with the targeting exercise we did for last week's class, with the moving circle. (Go, take the treat from the target, keep moving). After a round or so of that we started switching the side we had the dog running on, each pass.

Did more targeting work where we had the trainer hold the dog, walked forward to place the treat ourselves, then moved back about six feet and directed the dog past us to the target when the trainer released them. 

Directed them through a hoop to the target with a treat on the other side.

Introduced 'get out' and directing the dog away from us around an object to the left and right.

The only other things I can add are that the GSD and pit are owned by people who can NOT control them and it's vaguely annoying, especially combined with (There should be a bingo card for this) "(S)He's friendly!" while the dog is scaring the pants off Kylie by attempting to flip her over with their nose and/or trample her and that Bug had a nice time tooling around with Michael and investigating the play yard and doing a bit of romping with the other dog that was hanging out waiting on the intermediate agility class.


----------



## LoMD13

LoMD13 said:


> I'm starting to think Lola just hates trial environments. Even in run-throughs today she was very "Meh, I'll do everything correctly but I don't really want to". Dragging wicked bad. We'll probably give run-throughs a few more tries before we cut our losses and just keep havin fun in classes.


Well, I think I spoke too soon! She's been real sick ever since run-throughs, so I'm thinking she probably was just feeling icky that morning.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> I said I'd keep updating about the Foundations Class, since there was some interest, so.
> 
> Week 2.
> 
> Looks like the beagle dropped. I'm not entirely surprised - they were pretty put out by being asked to move to a verbal marker for the class, instead of using a clicker.
> 
> Kylie was much more comfortable. I got there a little early and handed over some of my treats for the targeting exercises, and just to plain let both trainers give her a treat. Between having been there before and that, she blasted through the targeting stuff this time, with a lot more enthusiasm and a lot less caution. I had to remove the greyhound's nose from my pocket roughly 8 billion times, because he really, really, really wanted my chicken liver and he was right behind or beside me for the entire class.
> 
> Actual content, to the best of my memory:
> Talked about removing the cue from watch me and getting it on just a verbal, and how to do that.
> 
> Started with the targeting exercise we did for last week's class, with the moving circle. (Go, take the treat from the target, keep moving). After a round or so of that we started switching the side we had the dog running on, each pass.
> 
> Did more targeting work where we had the trainer hold the dog, walked forward to place the treat ourselves, then moved back about six feet and directed the dog past us to the target when the trainer released them.
> 
> Directed them through a hoop to the target with a treat on the other side.
> 
> Introduced 'get out' and directing the dog away from us around an object to the left and right.
> 
> The only other things I can add are that the GSD and pit are owned by people who can NOT control them and it's vaguely annoying, especially combined with (There should be a bingo card for this) "(S)He's friendly!" while the dog is scaring the pants off Kylie by attempting to flip her over with their nose and/or trample her and that Bug had a nice time tooling around with Michael and investigating the play yard and doing a bit of romping with the other dog that was hanging out waiting on the intermediate agility class.


This sounds like a really good class!! And I'm really glad Bug had a nice time too, kill two birds with one stone!


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> This sounds like a really good class!! And I'm really glad Bug had a nice time too, kill two birds with one stone!


I am having the time of my life. It's FUN, the trainers are really, really nice and on top of things. Plus, I'm realizing just how... real the dogs and people doing this are. People screw up, dogs are doofs and WAY less well behaved/trained than I expected, but in pleasant ways. Dogs and people screw up and c'est la vie, laugh and move on. I went in with a 'we'll see' attitude and two weeks in, I don't think I'd voluntarily stop. It's just a really good time.

I really hope Lola's feeling better soon. Poor girl.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> I am having the time of my life. It's FUN, the trainers are really, really nice and on top of things. Plus, I'm realizing just how... real the dogs and people doing this are. People screw up, dogs are doofs and WAY less well behaved/trained than I expected, but in pleasant ways. Dogs and people screw up and c'est la vie, laugh and move on. I went in with a 'we'll see' attitude and two weeks in, I don't think I'd voluntarily stop. It's just a really good time.
> 
> I really hope Lola's feeling better soon. Poor girl.


Haha yeah, we've been doing it about a year and we still screw up SO much. Lo likes to bow on the table instead of down every once in a while and everybody has to pretend not to laugh so that it's not encouraging, but it's SO funny because she's pretty sure she's a show girl.


----------



## agility collie mom

CptJack said:


> I said I'd keep updating about the Foundations Class, since there was some interest, so.
> 
> Week 2.
> 
> Looks like the beagle dropped. I'm not entirely surprised - they were pretty put out by being asked to move to a verbal marker for the class, instead of using a clicker.
> 
> Kylie was much more comfortable. I got there a little early and handed over some of my treats for the targeting exercises, and just to plain let both trainers give her a treat. Between having been there before and that, she blasted through the targeting stuff this time, with a lot more enthusiasm and a lot less caution. I had to remove the greyhound's nose from my pocket roughly 8 billion times, because he really, really, really wanted my chicken liver and he was right behind or beside me for the entire class.
> 
> Actual content, to the best of my memory:
> Talked about removing the cue from watch me and getting it on just a verbal, and how to do that.
> 
> Started with the targeting exercise we did for last week's class, with the moving circle. (Go, take the treat from the target, keep moving). After a round or so of that we started switching the side we had the dog running on, each pass.
> 
> Did more targeting work where we had the trainer hold the dog, walked forward to place the treat ourselves, then moved back about six feet and directed the dog past us to the target when the trainer released them.
> 
> Directed them through a hoop to the target with a treat on the other side.
> 
> Introduced 'get out' and directing the dog away from us around an object to the left and right.
> 
> The only other things I can add are that the GSD and pit are owned by people who can NOT control them and it's vaguely annoying, especially combined with (There should be a bingo card for this) "(S)He's friendly!" while the dog is scaring the pants off Kylie by attempting to flip her over with their nose and/or trample her and that Bug had a nice time tooling around with Michael and investigating the play yard and doing a bit of romping with the other dog that was hanging out waiting on the intermediate agility class.


We moved a weimaraner back to a puppy obedience class for this exact reason. We expect some attention issues at first with puppies but, the handler had no control over the pup. It was not fair to the other students or the weimaraner. He will be coming back to class after he is better at staying focused. had a really great instructor who use to always say "we have a lot of dogs here in very little real estate, watch your dogs." She was so right.


----------



## elrohwen

agility collie mom said:


> We moved a weimaraner back to a puppy obedience class for this exact reason. We expect some attention issues at first with puppies but, the handler had no control over the pup. It was not fair to the other students or the weimaraner. He will be coming back to class after he is better at staying focused. had a really great instructor who use to always say "we have a lot of dogs here in very little real estate, watch your dogs." She was so right.


And this is why Watson is repeating "better than basic" for the third time, instead of moving on to rally. Haha. Oh sporting dog puppies ...



CptJack, glad you guys are having such a fun time! Some of the best parts of class are watching the other dogs. It's so fun to see their quirks and the silly things they all do. In my experience, the only ones in class who appear "really well trained" are the ones who are 6+ years old and been-there-done-that. Anybody there with a young-ish dog is going to have screw ups and silly moments. It's great that the people in your class can all laugh about it together! I wouldn't want to be in a class where everybody was serious.


----------



## Sibe

Class last night was crossapalooza. 20 obstacles with 5 front crosses, plus 2 rears. We've had really crazy courses in class and I like it. Spinning and winding and crossing, hard weave entries, back side of jumps, and lots of weird angles. So much fun!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Here's a video from class the other night. Kimma's slowness has to do partly with the unseasonably warm weather we've been having and also a bit with her just being a bit slow. Dunno what that's about. Oh Kimma. If it's not one thing it's the other...


----------



## Spazmelda

Lenny did terrible at our 2nd class today. He was just a hot mess. We practiced everything so much, but it was all out the window today. I don't know what his deal was. He was even barking a lot which he never does. I was super stressed, and I don't like one of the instructors. She makes me feel stupid. Sigh. Next week I will try to let him play with the neighbor dog for a while before class so maybe it will get his, "I wanna meet the other dogs!!!" out of his system.

ETA: In an effort to be less negative, I will say that Lenny really liked the teeter totter. They had a baby one that used a 4" pvc as the fulcrum and he seemed to enjoy going over that a few times. And he still enjoyed the wobble board.


----------



## Laurelin

Mia was acting a bit slow for Saturday class and then the first half of Sunday class. I swear I am a worry wart about it all. The second one of my dogs slow down, I am anticipating problems. she picked up once we got to her favorite obstacle- the a-frame. It's just odd, I'm finding myself having to be way more happyhappyhappy with her lately. We went to the park right afterwards and she ran around. I amwondering if it was the fact is was 83 degrees out. All the dogs were ho hum on Sunday. Saturday was a really difficult sequence (we are the only beginners in that class). 

Summer was WILD and crazy. Our first run was about 10 obstacles with a couple turns in there and I lost her a few times. She ran over and said hi once, rocketed herself off the teeter (she has never done that before), and I ended up running into her at one point. So not really great but I always get a kick out of running her. <3 my little old dog.


----------



## Kyllobernese

At our first Agility trial this year, Remmy really slowed down in his Masters Standard Class on the Sunday. I mean really did not want to do it and I had to really work at getting him to keep going. He had only had two classes on Saturday and it was his second class on Sunday, the first being a Snooker in which he went over the A-frame and would not pull off the tunnel so only did the two obstacles.

When we went for a walk in the fields the next week, he still seemed really quiet and it was about four or five days before he started racing around again. Like you I kept trying to think why he was like this but he seemed normal otherwise. Dogs keep you guessing.


----------



## CptJack

*snort* We made it through two classes!

Family medical drama. I can't say I'm HAPPY about dropping, but I'd be a lot less happy if I failed to help my family out because of a dog (and it conflicts pretty directly, because of travel times). It's okay, we can try agility again. I can't try having a grandmother again. Just letting people know, so they don't wonder where those rambling emails went.


----------



## Spazmelda

Sorry to hear about your grandmother. Is she okay?


----------



## CptJack

Spazmelda said:


> Sorry to hear about your grandmother. Is she okay?


As okay as you can be at 87 with a broken hip and fractured cervical vertebrae? She's home again, which is sort of where my time's going. Because my mom has her similarly aged, dementia patient mother in law living with her, and my uncle who usually takes care of my grandmother just had a quadruple bypass (same day grandma had surgery for her broken hip, actually). So now grandma's out of rehab, home health hasn't been worked out yet, and. Someone needs to be there. We've got a bit of a schedule with all the grandkids and kids who live even a little close, so no one's doing it all but we're all spread pretty thin. I can work from 'home' (anywhere), so- 

No resentment about that, seriously. She's my grandma and I love her.


----------



## Spazmelda

CptJack said:


> As okay as you can be at 87 with a broken hip and fractured cervical vertebrae? She's home again, which is sort of where my time's going. Because my mom has her similarly aged, dementia patient living with her, and my uncle who usually takes care of my grandmother just had a quadruple bypass (same day grandma had surgery for her broken hip, actually). So now grandma's out of rehab, home health hasn't been worked out yet, and. Someone needs to be there.


Goodness! When it rains it pours, doesn't it? You have my sincere hopes that everybody heals up as quickly as possible. It's wonderful that you are able to help out.


----------



## CptJack

Spazmelda said:


> Goodness! When it rains it pours, doesn't it? You have my sincere hopes that everybody heals up as quickly as possible. It's wonderful that you are able to help out.


Thank you!


----------



## elrohwen

Sending positive vibes for your grandmother!


----------



## agility collie mom

CptJack said:


> *snort* We made it through two classes!
> 
> Family medical drama. I can't say I'm HAPPY about dropping, but I'd be a lot less happy if I failed to help my family out because of a dog (and it conflicts pretty directly, because of travel times). It's okay, we can try agility again. I can't try having a grandmother again. Just letting people know, so they don't wonder where those rambling emails went.


I am so sorry to hear about your Grandmother. Hang in there. My Mom was just placed in Hospice Care yesterday. So classes and trialing will be on hold for a while. Wonderful friends have stepped in to help teach classes. As you said family comes first.


----------



## kadylady

Sorry to hear about your grandmother CptJack, sending good thoughts your way.

Started up class #3 tonight with Zoey, Intermediate Handling. We had about a 4 week break between classes....man did I miss it! We did mostly review tonight and Zoey absolutely rocked. She was so fast and she was so focused on me. I felt like we were working together so well, I was trusting her more and therefore guiding her better and she was totally focused and responsive. We were working a couple different short sequences with jumps, tunnels and crosses. We had a little trouble with the curved tunnel at the beginning but once I drove harder to it so did she and then she was nailing it. I'm finally getting more comfortable with the front crosses I think too. This class has 6 dogs in it (my biggest so far), 1 Aussie, 1 GSD, 1 Poodle, Zoey and 2 other mixes. So glad to be back at it again and also glad to have a tired dog again!


----------



## Spazmelda

Our third class went much better for us than last week. Either the instructor was more positive, or I was just in a better frame of mind. Either way, it was much more enjoyable. Lenny still had a hard time settling down. He's so different in class than he is elsewhere. He almost never barks at home, but in the class he's a barking maniac. I think we will get it under control though. He won't like it, but he will learn.

He did a good job on the baby obstacles and loves to go across a board or teeter totter. He won't yet run through a tunnel without some coaxing, but he will eventually do it. His recall to heel is going well. We had to work on that at home a lot, because he was taking any movement from me as a release, but he's got it down pretty well now that I have to say "free" first before he can move.

All in all, it was much better. Now... to improve the barking!


----------



## dagwall

Spazmelda said:


> Our third class went much better for us than last week. Either the instructor was more positive, or I was just in a better frame of mind. Either way, it was much more enjoyable. Lenny still had a hard time settling down. He's so different in class than he is elsewhere. He almost never barks at home, but in the class he's a barking maniac. I think we will get it under control though. He won't like it, but he will learn.
> 
> He did a good job on the baby obstacles and loves to go across a board or teeter totter. He won't yet run through a tunnel without some coaxing, but he will eventually do it. His recall to heel is going well. We had to work on that at home a lot, because he was taking any movement from me as a release, but he's got it down pretty well now that I have to say "free" first before he can move.
> 
> All in all, it was much better. Now... to improve the barking!


I can sympathize with the barking in classes. Jubel seems to think I should be focused on him during the entire class shoving treats in his mouth. He's very happy to DO something for those treats but any significant lull in the dispensing of treats or activities and he'll start to whine/bark/grumble. For our nosework classes he's put in a crate when we go outside to watch one of the other dogs do a search outside. He'll bark the majority of the time he's in there... not so much because he has a problem with the crate but just that he isn't part of the fun going on outside.

My only suggestion I've had limited success with is to slowly increase the interval between commands/rewards while we wait our turn again. He's getting better but won't just chill until it's our turn again. Doesn't help that he'll empty a frozen peanut butter filled kong in about 5 minutes tops, I have nothing I can give him that will last more than 10-15 minutes as a distraction. The closest would be a bully stick but he'd be too focused on that and probably wouldn't be interested in "working" when his turn came and leave the bully stick.


----------



## Spazmelda

What the instructor has me do (and this sounds mean, but it's not so bad) is this, when he starts barking I tell him no, and put him in a down. When he's down I step on his leash really close to the collar, so he can't get back up. When he's down like that he quits barking (I don't know why, but it's true). Once he settles down I praise him and pet him quietly and gently, so as not to get him riled up. I'll let him up and ask him to sit/stay again once he's been calm for a variable amount of time. If he sits nicely without barking he gets clicks, treats and "good boys". If/when he starts barking again, I do the whole thing over again. At least this way I can pay attention in class if he's being troublesome. At first he would really struggle and want to get up (I ignored him during this part), but he seemed to quickly realize that the fastest way to be able to get up again was to calm down and be quiet. Then, the frequency of his barking episodes started to slack off. He didn't really like being held down like that, and I think he will catch on quickly to be more polite in class.


----------



## Spazmelda

I love that picture of Jubel, btw.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our first drop-in Agility last Saturday. I took Lucy and she has not done anything since the 2nd of Feb. We had three sets of obstacles and did each of them a few times, then ran the full course. The first time I sent Lucy into the tunnel which was under the Dog Walk, she jumped up on the tunnel, up onto the Dog Walk, then did a perfect 2o2o and thought she was so smart! She was good after that and did all the obstacles really well. I did not do the complete course with her as I figured she had done enough with the three shorter courses.

I will take Remmy this Saturday as we have a trial at the beginning of May. I have been taking him on Thursday nights to the arena and using their equipment after they do their "fun agility" which is just racing around doing all the equipment, they are never taught anything. They give Obedience and Agility classes but I would never attend either of them.


----------



## dagwall

Spazmelda said:


> What the instructor has me do (and this sounds mean, but it's not so bad) is this, when he starts barking I tell him no, and put him in a down. When he's down I step on his leash really close to the collar, so he can't get back up. When he's down like that he quits barking (I don't know why, but it's true). Once he settles down I praise him and pet him quietly and gently, so as not to get him riled up. I'll let him up and ask him to sit/stay again once he's been calm for a variable amount of time. If he sits nicely without barking he gets clicks, treats and "good boys". If/when he starts barking again, I do the whole thing over again. At least this way I can pay attention in class if he's being troublesome. At first he would really struggle and want to get up (I ignored him during this part), but he seemed to quickly realize that the fastest way to be able to get up again was to calm down and be quiet. Then, the frequency of his barking episodes started to slack off. He didn't really like being held down like that, and I think he will catch on quickly to be more polite in class.


Ha, Jubel is too big and strong to try that even if I wanted to. 
*shrug* it doesn't really bother me that much as he only does this in class. If he constantly did this at home it'd be a problem.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

FINALLY out of Novice! And the only thing that messed us up (though we didn't lose points over it since it was Novice so she still managed a 1st place) was the weaves. Grrrrrrr.... In class she's pretty great, but at trials she displacement sniffs. Every. Time. FRUSTRATING. We have our next trial in a month so we will keep working on it. But YAY Open Purgatory!


----------



## Laurelin

That's too bad you're having to drop classes, but they will be there when you have the time. 

One thing I am sure most of the 'old hats' know but the newer people might not is that they should check to see if they can volunteer for their local clubs' trials! It's a GREAT experience and probably the best way to learn. They always need help and there's plenty of jobs to do- gate steward, timer, scribe, resetting bars, building courses, leash runner, etc. I just got back from 2 days of volunteering. It's a great way to learn the rules of various games, to get to know people competing in your area, and of course... a weekend spent with a bunch of dogs and dog people is always a good time.

Holy crap I am sunburnt though.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Woo! And we got our first Q in Open JWW! We ALMOST had it in Standard, too, but I screwed something up and then those weaves got us again! At least in JWW she was totally clean, hit the entry with no sniffing. She was still slow, but they were there. I'm going to ask my instructor for some ideas at class tomorrow. I'm still SO EXCITED that we are in Open, though


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Here's a video of our Open run yesterday:





And a pic of Kimma with her weekend winnings:


----------



## agility collie mom

Finkie_Mom said:


> Here's a video of our Open run yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a pic of Kimma with her weekend winnings:


I watched a video of you and Kimmie in class. How did you train weaves? 2x2, channel, lure or wires? I noticed that she sped up at the end of the last weave pole sequence when you "cheered" her on. Also that you moved more quickly so she did. Have a couple friend's who dogs are soft. The one friend's dog was slow to and through the weave poles. She placed the table at the end of the weaves at a distance. Placed a target with a high value treat (chicken) on it sent her to the table. She then sent her dog through the weave poles to the table with the target and the chicken reward. As the dogs speed picked up she placed the food reward only with the fastest performances. eventually she removed the target too. She still on occasion rewards with a target at a distance after the weave poles. You can also use a toy that you keep in your pocket. Toy should be thrown as her nose is at the last weave pole which will teach her to drive for a reward. Hope this makes sense.


----------



## Sibe

Go Kimma!!!! Congrats!

Good luck in Open.. I've been there since October 2011 and only have one Q. We have taken several months off during the last year and a half and typically only do 1 trial a month though.

Denali used to do the same with the weaves. Fine in class, then at trials would stress sniff. Every time. I didn't know it was stress at the time but I'm *so* glad someone pointed it out to me. I didn't know what to do about it though. After several trials she started doing it in class and that's when I knew we really had a problem. Here's how I fixed it:

1. Went back to 6 poles.
2. Started about 20 feet back in a straight-on or nearly straight line to the poles. Nothing at the end, nothing at the beginning. Just us and the weaves.
3. I give her weave cue "go weave" in an tone that is not overly excited nor overly flat and commanding. Same tone as I tell her "hup" for a jump. I found that in trials I had a much more urgent voice.
4. Split second after giving the cue, we're running toward them at a pretty fast pace. Not so fast she'll overrun them, but so she has a good bit of momentum.
5. When she exits, we have a party. Treats, go get the bunnies, go play in the hose water, "omg good girl you're the best dog ever I'm so proud of you you're so smart and awesome!!!", all the best things.

After several sessions of that she was really charging through the weaves and looking up at me expectantly and excitedly, waiting for the cue. I started having her charge though a few times before a party, and from different angles, and having her do 12 poles. Until she was ready for 12 we'd simply skip the weaves when running a course in class. I also wanted to make sure to keep her super stoked about the weaves, so only doing a few charges before being done for the session. DO NOT OVERWORK THEM! During class, I started every class by having her charge through weaves 2-3 times. She'd run them during the courses when she was ready for 12, and then I'd have her do another few at the end. We took a break from trialing for about 2-3 months iirc to get her weaves fixed. No point in trialing when 1) She's not having fun and is stressing out every single time and it's not going to get better at trials, and 2) There's no possible way we're going to Q. When we finally went back to trialing her weaves were great and she's been fine since.

I also found, with the help of my instructor, that she really needs space with the weaves. If I crowd her she stresses and pops out. She'll also pop out if she notices me getting a treat ready before she's done, but that's not a stress thing that's an "omg a treat!" thing.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Thanks for the congrats and weave advice! Yes, we learned 2x2 method. My instructor suggested similar solutions, so we will just keep on working it 

We are already entered in a few more trials, but we will be taking the summer off to just train.


----------



## LoMD13

Man that Kimma is on a roll!!! Congrats on getting out of novice!!!

Lola and I are starting a new class today, my brain is pretty much completely fried from the past fee weeks so I predict it should go well.


----------



## Spazmelda

Congrats Kimma and Finke Mom!

Class last Wednesday was pretty good. It lasted way longer than the scheduled time though (like an hour longer than normal), so Lenny was pretty done by that time. He wasn't even interested in treats anymore, which I has never happened before with him. 

We learned how to do a front cross turn, which was confusing to me. Practicing it, I've got a way that gets us turned around with both of us turning towards each other, but I'm not sure I'm doing it the way they said.

Oh, I made a jump the other day. I had pvc and fittings laying around from a previous project, so I just made one up. We are not actually jumping in class, but we are practicing wrapping around a pole, so I can use this to practice that. I went ahead and made jump cups and a jump bar, but not using them yet.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff423/Spazmelda/586cb35cbf82c74cf1574b737356e8b8.jpg

I want to make a teeter totter now, but I can't figure out how I'd get a 12' board home in my rav4.


----------



## Kyllobernese

My sister and I have our two dogs in a trial on the 4th and 5th of June.  Remmy has one Advanced Snooker class, two Master Gamblers and a Master Standard. I hope the weather turns out good as it is an outdoor trial. Last year it poured rain but Remmy got his third Advanced Standard Q so moved into Masters. We will be taking the Fifth-wheel trailer and camping on the grounds.


----------



## LoMD13

Stick in the ground weaves are out! Love that it's warm enough to play outside.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Thanks, guys! We've been working the weaves, and I think the speed is coming back. The only places I have to work her are at class, in the yard, and at the place I teach classes at. So here's a video from there, using a target at the end. I only did a few reps then did some contact work. So far so good!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Lucy is just at the stage of running the channel weaves with them starting to close up. I am not great at throwing my treat bag so I would make Lucy stay, walk to the end of the weaves or have someone else do it and put down the treat bag, then walk back and send her and she just tore through them. If I threw it and it did not go straight she would duck out which is not good. She cannot get the treat from the bag till I open it so if she did duck out, she would not get a treat.


----------



## agility collie mom

Great job with Kimma!! Love the tug n treat bags kyllobernese!! Love love channel weaves for teaching weaves. 2 X 2's are great too if you do not have a large breed dog who "rocks" them out of position.


----------



## agility collie mom

Nice weaves LoMd13! One thing though you do not want her stopping and looking back at you at the end. This will slow her weave performance down. Instead throw the ball when she commits to the final weave pole (nose at the last weave on the correct side). This will produce speed and make her want to drive forward. By the way she is a QT!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Not sure if I am going to the Agility trial this weekend. We had a real disaster yesterday as my sister's dog, Mikey, was killed by their Aerdale. They rushed him to the Vet and he underwent 2 hours of Surgery for broken ribs, punctured liver, and a hole is his diaphragm. He survived the surgery but then died a little later. Just too much damage for a little Shih Tzu x Maltese from a big 80 lb. Aerdale. They do not know what set him off as he has always been good with the little dogs, I have had mine down there a lot times with no problem. They are just devastated and I do not know if I have the heart to go and do Agility without them. I still cannot believe it happened, it is like a piece of my life is missing and far worse for them. Life can change in the blink of an eye.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I am so, so sorry for your family's loss. How devastating. I can't imagine. 

Are they going to keep/forgive the airdale? How terribly hard.


----------



## Sibe

I forgot my crate at home. It's always in the car, but I'd taken it out to bring our big wire crate for a camping trip a couple weekends ago and forgotten to put it back in. I forgot it last week as well- this week it was right next to the front door so I wouldn't forget it again, but forgot anyway! Without a place to settle, last week she was quite a bit unfocused. I figured I'd grab the blanket from the car as she has a good "go to mat" cue. I set her loose to play with the other dogs as they always run free before class. I went to my car. As I pulled the blanket out I hear commotion, people saying Nali's name. Not screaming or panic but definitely not good sounds. I start jogging back and see a big brown thing in her mouth. At first I assume it's a toy, as the field is part of the greyhound rescue center and they leave toys out there sometimes. But I called, "DID SHE GET A RABBIT!?" Sure enough. Bunbun in her mouth. Other dogs were of course very curious and owners were calling them away, worried about resource guarding. I called out "Nali, DROP. Leave it!" as I tossed the blanket down and when running to her. She did drop and leave it. As I feed raw I thought 'sweet, free meal!" but saw some ticks and other bugs on it so didn't really want it, and I also didn't want it to sit in the car or outside for another hour and a half ungutted. If I'd been able to freeze it immediately I may have taken it and just skinned it before feeding. Someone grabbed a poo bag to pick it up, and tossed it over the fence for the coyotes and birds.

We aren't sure if she killed it or found it dead. There is a shed in the middle of the field she'd been poking around, dogs often dig around it. Nobody heard a rabbit death squeak. I asked the guy who picked it up if it was warm. He said yes.. but it had also been in her mouth, and the greyhounds could have killed it just before class. It was still very floppy, not rigid at all. Whether she had killed it or not, it was a fresh kill. 

Surprisingly she didn't fixate on bunnies and did awesome the rest of the class! Trial Sunday.. still Open JWW.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Their daughter took the Airedale for now but is going to see if the Rescue can place him as they do not want him around as a reminder. It is hard to say why he did this after all these years of being around the small dogs. He has always been a friendly happy dog and loves to chase his ball. He has never bothered with my two males when I have been down there or any of the other dogs so it was just so unexpected. I still cannot believe Mikey won't be around. He was turning 7 this year and was such a great little dog and so special to my sister and her husband.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Did people see this happen? Were they there when it happened?


----------



## Sibe

Oh Kyllobernese, I'm so sorry for the loss! That is so tragic. 

I should have read before posting, I would have waited on the silly rabbit story.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Yes, they were home. My sister had just looked out and the Airedale was down by the gate into the riding ring and Mikey with the Rat Terrier were in the top pen where they go all the time. All of a sudden the Rat Terrier was screaming and when they looked over the Airedale had Mikey down. He bit him at least a couple of times and even tried to grab him when Ron ran over and picked him up. It is not as if he did not recognize Mikey, had lived with him for a long time and with small dogs most of his life. I have been over there a lot with three of my small dogs (two males) and he never bothered them at all. The Airedale is neutered and had never ever shown the slightest aggression so they do not know why he did it. They turned the Airedale over to a rescue and they will find him a home.


----------



## agility collie mom

I am so sorry for you and your family. What a terrible incident.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Well, I have decided to go to the Agility trial after all. My sister will not have anything for Agility till her Rat Terrier is old enough in the fall to start training so I will be having to go to the Agility trials alone again this year. Her and I have been attending a handling class for Agility all winter and had planned on it being a big trial year as last year she was too busy. I am taking Kris, the Doberman, as I will have lots of time to get her out and around the other dogs and people as I only have Remmy in two classes a day, so other than that and working as Ring Crew in some classes, there is lots of free time.

It is about a four hour drive to the trial but my classes on Sunday are finished before noon so I will be able to drive home early. It is supposed to get quite warm all weekend, hope it does not turn out really hot as not used to it yet.


----------



## Sibe

Open Purgatory. When are we gonna catch a break?!  But still, good job Denali!! No Q due to a knocked bar but otherwise she was great (refusal after the knocked bar too). She did crash hard enough to get a grass stain on her leg but she was fine. Poor girl ALWAYS falls at this site. I think I overran her and was too far ahead which is what caused the knocked bar.. I'd planned to take off and get ahead at the beginning to pull her away from the weaves. Start of this course was nuts!
**SPEAKERS DOWN!!** Airplanes scream over this site.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Home from the trial. It did not go that great as far as Remmy's classes. When our temperatures have been no higher than 15 (about 50degrees) and you start running in a class and it is 67 (closer to 90 degrees) you and the dog loose a lot of your enthusiasm. I don't know who ran out of gas first, Remmy or me.

It was great for Kris though, she got to meet lots of doggy people and different dogs. She liked the people, not too sure about some of the dogs. She spent a lot of time just sitting or lying down and watching what was going on.


----------



## Miss Bugs

so Gem started Agility classes last week. it was different because with the Rally I had already done all the training, I was only taking a class for the atmosphere. Agility I have never done any foundation work with Gem..with my work schedule I figured Agility would never be an option so why bother? lol however my work schedule changed opening up my evenings..when all the classes are. I am so used to Gem already "knowing" that her learning the same as the rest of the class threw me off lol so anyway:

last week it was low jumps, pause table and tunnel:

low jumps:
she is used to full height jumps for Rally..she looked at the low jumps went "WTH is this?" and walked through the bars...lol 

Pause table:
she has a GREAT down and LOVES getting up on things, so right off the bat she was racing to the table leaping up and dropping into a down

Tunnel:
she was really nervous, and took a lot of tried and coaxing..several times she lept onto the tunnel , once she got it down, tried from my right side..that took everything right back to square one, trying to dart around the tunnel, jumping on it etc.. she figured it out though. 

this week:

Weaves-
caught onto the pattern quickly, but not totally sure about it yet. 

Teeter-
loud noises are COOL!!! Gem has always LOVED to make things make loud crashes..as a puppy she would walk by me holding a stack of metal dishes and purposely send them crashing to the ground, wait till I picked them up and she would do it again. the teeter was no different, the teacher would place a treat at the tipping point to make the dog pause on the board at that point, second time over the board Gem marched over the board, ignored the treat and pounced on the end to make it bang..ya... needless to say Gem has no fear of the teeter lol 

A-frame-
she looked at it curiously at first, was coaxed up..realized it goes UP! and forever there after dragged me to the frame at full speed flying over it..usually completely missing the contact..took several tried to get her to even notice the contact reward..who the heck wants a treat? this thing is FUN! 

Chute-
I was concerned since she was so weird about the tunnel...I needn't have been. what was SUPPOSED to happen was teacher holds dog, you go to other end, hold open fabric and call dog through..was DID happen was teacher holds Gem, I get just past the barrel and Gem rips the leash from the teachers hand and goes racing through unaided. the other students were like "oh come on! that's not even fair!" lol 

so far I think she is liking this agility thing lol


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY! Got our first Open Standard Q with a clean run and a first place! It was a bit slow, but that's OK. She was super accurate and still had fun. Jumpers was a bit of a mess in the beginning, but after the 5th jump she was great. She refused jumps 3 and 4 for no apparent reason, which cost us our Q. The rest was clean, though, so I'm not complaining. Weave entries for the day were perfect, and definitely faster than they have been. 2o2os were also great. And it was my club's trial so I had people cheering for me which was cool


----------



## Miss Bugs

ok Gem agility classes week 3..seriously I really didn't think she would like Agility, I mean this is a dog that does Rally really freakin slow because she refuses to walk fast, a dog that I tried to take running with me and I was pulling her while she acted like "seriously? is this really necessary?", she plops on the floor for a nap in between turns in class for petes sake..BUT she see's an obstical and she is ON, instructor dragged out the tunnel? other dog were like "OMG" and getting all nervous, Gem popped up from her nap and hit the end of her leash, ears up, head cocked, like "something new?? YAY!!!" they had to put the teeter away when we were not working on it because Gem run for the thing every chance she got, which was frightening the dogs that still needed the board on the floor and hand tipped for them. 

ok so overview of the class

practised Teeter more, Gem thinks its the greatest thing ever invented, and even remembered to pause on contact without que

practised weaves more... she has the pattern down, and runs for the weaves..the on leash thing is a problem because I am too slow, but she needs no guidance at all, she just barrels through all 6 like a pro...bear in mind this was only the second times she's ever seen weave poles on her life. 

dogwalk.. she loved THAT the second she saw it, no struggle at any point, from either direction, and she has already generalized contacts

curved tunnel, locks on races through no hesitation. 

wing jump chained with U tunnel..again, no issue whatsoever..well the leash was a problem, but SHE was a star lol 

I dunno but I think I have a rock star of an agility dog on my hands lol, the teacher has a heeler mix she competes with, she calls Gem his clone..except better behaved lol


----------



## Sibe

Another fantastic run, another NQ. For the first time in a very long time she stressed out of the weaves. The judge was standing fairly close and though I didn't notice, my instructor watched our run and said to her it was so obvious the issue was with the judge. She would pop out after just a couple poles and then get a big bite of grass. Didn't complete the weaves. The rest of the run was *beautiful* and just how I hoped it would be.

Videographer missed the first 4 jumps (first 3 were beautiful, 4th was a refusal then she did it) and accidentally zoomed in so it's a shaky video. I'm so glad we finished strong!!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Woo! Got our second Standard Q, so one more then we are in Excellent! I figured we wouldn't Q in Jumpers, as due to the rain all day, they spread mulch around the ring, therefore making Kimma super interested in the ground. So she ran parts where there was no mulch, walked where there was, and our run was basically a mess. Oh well. Now I know to try and train in/around mulch? Didn't feel too badly, though, as there were LOTS of dogs with the same problem and I did not prepare her for that in any way. Caused her to refuse a couple of jumps and the weaves :/ 

But hey, I'll take 2 for 2 with first places in each Standard run!


----------



## lauren17

I have started taking agility classes with my aussie again! We took classes for a couple years plus did a couple years of 4H agility. Quit classes when he was really getting good because I went to college. he had been to a couple trial and did great. Won grand champion at the State Fair which was a UKC trial I believe. 

It's been 5 years since he did agility. He'd been on a teeter, and seen a couple jumps over the years but never an actual course. I started an intermediate class hoping that he would remember enough to not be too behind in the class. I was worried he wouldn't remember much! But he is doing great! I was really impressed with him the first class, he had no problems with the obstacles, remembered his contacts, followed all my signals, and he was so happy the whole time! His biggest issue is the weaves (gets the wrong entrance and will skip a pole), which is understandable. That was always the hardest thing for him, so I've started him back on the channel weaves. And I'm doing a lot of distance work.

Training him now is way different than before though, he's slower, gets distracted easier, and isn't quite so into me and motivated to work just for me if that makes sense. However he still has a ton of ball and food drive. But for a nearly 10 year old dog that hasn't done this in years, I'm very proud of him! And he hasn't been stiff after classes at all. He has arthritis so I was really worried about making that worse but his new supplement seems to work great and he gets more sore chasing his ball or going swimming than he does at class (I'm jumping him very low).


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Good to see some new people joining this thread and some of the regulars earning Q's! 

Kit and I have been attending agility classes weekly, though not getting in much practice time besides that. She's such a quick study, though, I feel like we continue to improve, just with weekly classes. I love seeing her excitement when we get to class and before each run. She's running fast, paying attention, and when we screw up, it's almost always my fault. I'd like to see faster weaves in trials, but they're great in class. Recently we got 3rd place in her division in the local Willamette Cup. We won it last year, but given that she's in elite now, which is a big division, I was proud of 3rd place. Here's a pic from that trial:









She takes every opportunity to show our instructor how much he's appreciated (he *loves* her too):









We're looking forward to a trial on the coast in early July.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

WOO! Got our OA title today and our second Open JWW Q! 

We have our first Excellent Standard run next weekend


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY! Officially all in Excellent! Kimma got her OAJ yesterday with a really nice run. It was 94-degrees out and sunny and muggy, and I honestly didn't even expect her to run much of anything - but she had a clean run, and got a first place out of the deal! Our last first place, I'm sure, now that we've moved up

WOO!


----------



## DJEtzel

Frag and I had an awesome class last night. He's been dropping bars so we're working on his jump style and my cueing, but it's going well other than that, and our last run of the night he only dropped one bar and I didn't say a word or have my hands leave my side for the entire course. GETTING THERE.


----------



## mashlee08

We had our firstest ever trial run last night!!! It was a casual trial but still one nevertheless, Indie did surprisingly well despite the fact that I had been working her hard for an hour beforehand so her brain wasn't as onto it as it should have been, dropped 1 bar, weaves were a disaster, but she handled nicely for our first go and I was happy  
it was a modified masters course, so the fact we did ok makes me happy to be able to enter some novice stuff from now on.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey and I completed our Intermediate Handling class tonight (this was our 3rd agility class). She's doing so awesome, I'm so proud of her. And we are both having so much fun. This class we worked up to serpentine's, did lots of work with front and rear crosses, learned pushes and pulls and spent a lot of time working jump sequences. 

Here is our first mini course tonight. For this course the instructor told us how to run it, where do to crosses, etc. Everything was great til the serpentine, I got just a little to far ahead of her and she missed the second jump. I knew it was about to happen to and I just couldn't slow myself down in time. We went back and did it again and she nailed it. 






This was our second mini course tonight and I think we nailed it! I was so happy! This course the instructor let us each decide how to handle the course. Zoey and I were the only ones that didn't have trouble with the jump sequence after the teeter, we were the only ones that ran it that way too. I had been practicing rear crosses and her driving to the jump quite a bit this week and was pretty confident in that path.






We start Advanced Handling next week. 

**Sorry, not sure how to embed the videos**


----------



## Sibe

* Sunday, July 07, 2013 / Agility Club of San Diego *
Open JWW Class
Judge: Mary Mullen
Course Yards: 157 Time: 45 seconds
Dog's Time: 0:33:51 Score: 95 QUALIFIED 1st
Faults - TmF: 0 R: 1 W: 0 F: 0 E: 0

OMG WE QUALIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We now have 2 Q's in JWW. The first we got in Sept 2011. Almost 2 years ago. Wooooo!!!! Video to come, I'm too excited to wait for it to finish uploading. I tackled Denali after our run I was so happy


----------



## Sibe

Ok, here's the video and a picture.


----------



## kadylady

Congratulations Sibe and Denali!!


----------



## elrohwen

Congrats to Denali!!


----------



## elrohwen

I think I found a place to take agility classes and I plan to sign up in August. Very excited! My regular training facility only offers a fundamentals course and I was told it's geared towards dogs with more basic training than Watson has (impulse control, off leash, etc). I respect that, but I would rather get him started on a beginner level sooner rather than later to see if we like it. My regular facility is also not really set up for agility, and doesn't have all of the equipment, but this other place has a great set up. The only downside is that it's about an hour away.

I can't wait! They just started a block of 4 week classes, so new ones should be starting in August.


----------



## Laurelin

Trial in 2 days..... Yikes!


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Trial in 2 days..... Yikes!


Good luck! You're running both dogs?


----------



## Laurelin

That is the plan. Mia in gamblers both days and Summer is in jumpers/gamblers. 

I'm a little worried that Mia will totally stress out with all the hustle but we will see. Our goal is simple: keep things fun. If all she does is be happy and engaged then we'll be good.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> That is the plan. Mia in gamblers both days and Summer is in jumpers/gamblers.


Explain gamblers to me. I always get confused with all of the different types of agility classes.


----------



## Laurelin

Gamblers is essentially an open course. There are obstacles and the judge tells you what is worth however many points. You can do each obstacle 2 times but no more. So example dog walk is 5 points and a jump is 1 and a tunnel 3, etc. You get a set amount of time to wrack up the points and you need a certain amount to get the necessary points to Q. The judge blows a whistle and then you have to go run the gamble. The gamble is a set of obstacles that is behind a line on the ground that the handler cannot cross. In novice the ones I've seen are not bad but in the advanced classes there can be some real distance work. So you need the points plus you need the gamble performed.

I chose gamblers because we can just get out there and try her favorite obstacles. Hopefully.


----------



## LoMD13

The gamble can be pretty tough with the little dogs, but we're also not so great distance. I always liked Snooker best because it's similar that you can sort of pick your own course, but no distance gamble. 


Hope Mia and Summer have a blast!!! I think they are going to awesome.


----------



## elrohwen

Sounds like fun!

I always assumed that agility was basically a set course (with or without certain obstacles depending on level) and everybody in that level ran the same course, similar to jumping for horses. Until recently I had no idea there were so many fun options. 

How many times do most people run in a day? It sounds like more fun that other sports where you are at the show all day to only run once (one reason conformation is so boring for me, because I spend 3 hours waiting around and am in the ring for 2 min).


----------



## Laurelin

LoMD13 said:


> The gamble can be pretty tough with the little dogs, but we're also not so great distance. I always liked Snooker best because it's similar that you can sort of pick your own course, but no distance gamble.
> 
> 
> Hope Mia and Summer have a blast!!! I think they are going to awesome.


Snookers confuses the hell out of me, LOL.

So you take 1 red, 1 blue, 1 red, etc then the closing sequence? Someone explained it to me. Can you do an obstacle more than once? Can you use part of the closing sequence as your 1 red, 1 blue, etc?

I don't even know if we will attempt the gamble or just run past the line. I really have zero expectations for Mia beyond not wanting a meltdown in the ring. I think Summer has a decent chance of Qing at least once if I can hold my act together. She's bombproof about everything. At the least I have no worries about her stressing. She may go say hi to the ring crew though.



elrohwen said:


> Sounds like fun!
> 
> I always assumed that agility was basically a set course (with or without certain obstacles depending on level) and everybody in that level ran the same course, similar to jumping for horses. Until recently I had no idea there were so many fun options.
> 
> How many times do most people run in a day? It sounds like more fun that other sports where you are at the show all day to only run once (one reason conformation is so boring for me, because I spend 3 hours waiting around and am in the ring for 2 min).


If you enter everything at the shows I've been to it's 4-5 runs a day (depending on if we have a relay run that day). 2-4 days a trial depending. I've been to a few AKC trials but am not as up on their rules as USDAA since that's what my home club is. 

NADAC looks even weirder but I'd have to go out of state for that. There is no CPE that I'm aware of around here. There is some TDAA and I've considered that. 

Agility is definitely lots of fun. There's a lot of strategy in it too.

I need more money to enter more things. My 6 runs this weekend will cost $90.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I need more money to enter more things. My 6 runs this weekend will cost $90.


Yeah, each day of conformation costs me $30 for 2min in the ring. It seems cheap (only $30 per show!) until you go to a couple in a row.

I'm not sure what people do around here. The place I plan to take classes had something on their website about a CPE trial, but otherwise I don't know. None of the AKC shows I have been to or signed up for confo offered agility - only obedience and rally in addition to breed.


----------



## DJEtzel

I love snooker! It's the only one I really feel comfortable with aside from standard. 

You can take any not red obstacle after each different red jump and can take the same obstacles more than once if you want those points. Just remember that if you drop a bar from a jump that's in the closing sequence during your opening red sequence, you will have to stop at that obstacle and go to table during your closing and won't Q (I believe... Someone correct me but if you don't finish the closing sequence I don't think you can Q.. Maybe you can if you got enough points prior?)


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> Snookers confuses the hell out of me, LOL.
> 
> So you take 1 red, 1 blue, 1 red, etc then the closing sequence? Someone explained it to me. Can you do an obstacle more than once? Can you use part of the closing sequence as your 1 red, 1 blue, etc?
> 
> I don't even know if we will attempt the gamble or just run past the line. I really have zero expectations for Mia beyond not wanting a meltdown in the ring. I think Summer has a decent chance of Qing at least once if I can hold my act together. She's bombproof about everything. At the least I have no worries about her stressing. She may go say hi to the ring crew though.
> 
> 
> 
> If you enter everything at the shows I've been to it's 4-5 runs a day (depending on if we have a relay run that day). 2-4 days a trial depending. I've been to a few AKC trials but am not as up on their rules as USDAA since that's what my home club is.
> 
> NADAC looks even weirder but I'd have to go out of state for that. There is no CPE that I'm aware of around here. There is some TDAA and I've considered that.
> 
> Agility is definitely lots of fun. There's a lot of strategy in it too.
> 
> I need more money to enter more things. My 6 runs this weekend will cost $90.


You have to take one red (labeled on the maps as 1), and if you successfully complete that, you earn the right to take one numbered obstacle of your choosing, then you have to take successfully complete another red in order to to take another numbered obstacle. Then you take one more red, and one more numbered. If you mess up a red, you don't get to take the numbered obstacle and you have to move on to the next red. If you mess up the obstacle, you move on to the next red. When you run out of reds, you just do the closing sequence labeled 2-7, which usually flows really nicely.

You can Q without completing your closing, you just have to earn enough points. When the whistle blows (if you take two reds in a row, or two numbered obstacles in a row, or do the closing sequence out of order, or just run out of time) you run to the finish line and if you had earned enough points you'll Q


----------



## LoMD13

http://m.youtube.com/?reload=2&rdm=02bo#/watch?v=-wKcSfmOviA


Here was our Snooker Q from our very first trial! I love it because Lola's not the speediest, but we can still Q if we play our cards right.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh I totally forgot there was points with snookers too. For some reason snookers makes absolutely NO sense to me. I've watched it several times and helped score it even (but then you're just writing down what the judge says). That's why I didn't enter it. Thought about it with Summer but I think I'd make a fool out of myself.

So essentially:

- you are earning points and obstacles are all given point values? Do the reds have any points attached to them?
- you take 1 red then take 1 non red. Then 1 red. You must take all red obstacles?
- closing sequence doesn't contain any reds?
- This is all timed, right?
- In novice you only get one shot at a red obstacle however you can re-attempt non-reds? 
- You have to start with the red labelled 1?

There's no tricks in jumpers, right? Just run the designated course of jumps and tunnels.

The AKC trials I've gone to are usually either JUST agility or agility and obedience only. I don't see them with confo shows much unless it's like a breed specialty. I'm guessing confo folks think we're too wild, lol.


----------



## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> Yeah, each day of conformation costs me $30 for 2min in the ring. It seems cheap (only $30 per show!) until you go to a couple in a row.


It is the one thing holding me back from dog #3. I'd love another dog right now. Not sure I could pay entry fees on 3 dogs though.... 

If I just did all runs at a 2 day trial with my 2 dogs... that's 16 runs a weekend at $15 a piece. How do people trial in everything with 3+ dogs every weekend? Wouldn't that be nice...

Nationals was something like $25 a run?


----------



## LoMD13

So essentially:

- you are earning points and obstacles are all given point values? Do the reds have any points attached to them?
Exactly, it's all about the points. The Reds are 1 point apiece. 


- you take 1 red then take 1 non red. Then 1 red. You must take all red obstacles?
You have to attempt however many reds the judge tells you to, for the ones I've done, it has always been you have to attempt 3 out of 3 reds. I've seen some More advanced courses where you have to attempt 3 out of 4 though. If you knock the bar on a red, you forfeit the points and have to move on to the next red. 

- closing sequence doesn't contain any reds?
Right, closing sequence is 2-7 usually. 

- This is all timed, right?

Yep, we jump in performance novice, and I think we have somewhere around a minute.

- In novice you only get one shot at a red obstacle however you can re-attempt non-reds? 
I'm not sure about this one, I know there is no refusals but I think if they attempt it and say miss the contact- it would just be counted as a 0


- You have to start with the red labelled 1?

Yes, but there are 3 usually, and you can start with any of the 3 red jumps labeled 1

There's no tricks in jumpers, right? Just run the designated course of jumps and tunnels.

Yep, Jumpers is very straightforward and it flows really nicely in Novice. No tricks.


----------



## DJEtzel

Here's a video of a Snooker run with Frag. You can see we started at the jump with the Red one, went to tire, another red one, BACK to tire (because I wanted that point) then down to the third red and took the tunnel afterwards, then came up to finish the sequence, but dropped a bar 2 obstacles in and had to end with 23/24 points. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151238299222705&l=2642754039316807521


----------



## mashlee08

Laurelin said:


> Trial in 2 days..... Yikes!


 Oh good luck! Let us know how you go  we have a trial in a couple weeks, only for jumpers though.


----------



## Laurelin

Q2 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## kadylady

Congratulations!!!!


----------



## Laurelin

Here's a final recap of our first time out. 


first trial by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Saturday:

Mia gamblers: 3rd (I didn't even check yesterday since I knew we didn't Q)
Summer gamblers: --
Summer jumpers: 2nd, Q

Sunday:

Mia gamblers: 3rd
Summer gamblers: 2nd, Q
Summer jumpers: 2nd (forgot to pick up a ribbon)

Gamblers went phenomenal with both. Mia actually got the gamble but I positioned myself too far away when the buzzer went and we couldn't make it back in time. My fault. Summer's gamblers run was superb and pretty much flawless. We racked up a ton of points.

Jumpers started well but the second tunnel got us. My dogs both think highly curved tunnels are a bit scary. My trainer said afterwards that I got too far ahead of her and stopped at the tunnel and then she stopped. I tried again and again (shouldn't have) then ran past it. Then Summer had lost steam. I think it was just a lot. End of the day on the second day and she was pooped. I think if I hadn't botched the tunnel she wouldn't have lost speed though. 

But they were happy and stayed with me the entire time. No freak outs or anything, no saying hi while they were working, no panic attacks. It was a good time but I am pooped. I worked most the time I was not running.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

First QQ in Excellent today! Not bad for her second time in Excellent Standard and first time in Excellent JWW! Proud of my girl. Just have some more things to work out (i.e. getting her to NOT be a stress-case) before we start trialing again in September. With any luck, we will be invited to the Invitational next year


----------



## DJEtzel

I'd love some critique on this video. Got a jump made for home finally, and had a short session with Ricky tonight. His first time at home, with the moo tug, at 16", doing backsides, and it was about to storm. I LOVED his drive and ambition for the tug, that's the best he's played with me yet... 

We started doing these small easy drills because he stopped sending well in class, and we're out of class now so we're working on our own for a while. 

What would you do differently and why? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSNqYeGLdv4


----------



## trainingjunkie

I really enjoyed watching! You guys look great and you're going to have a ton of fun!

I only had a couple of questions/thoughts:

When you reward on the "send," I question the decision to have him come back to you for his reward. I would consider tossing the toy onto his line of travel AWAY from you and headed in the direction that you want him to travel. Then recall him back for the play. I wonder if you are inadvertently turning your "send" into more of a "wrap" by consistently having him turn back to you. Just food for thought!

Your "backsides" look really nice! It looks like you are really ready to put then into context and add the jumps into and out of the exercise. 

Nice job! Congratulations!


----------



## MrsBoats

> When you reward on the "send," I question the decision to have him come back to you for his reward. I would consider tossing the toy onto his line of travel AWAY from you and headed in the direction that you want him to travel. Then recall him back for the play. I wonder if you are inadvertently turning your "send" into more of a "wrap" by consistently having him turn back to you. Just food for thought!


Great advice...I am going to echo this same exact thing. You are making him wrap instead of send. A forward send is used to send your dog to an obstacle while you are moving and getting in place to continue setting the dogs path. I use sends so I can get myself in place for a front or blind cross a jump or two in front of my dog. I would start practicing sending him over a jump and rewarding him with a toy thrown t the ground about 8' past the jump while you move off in a lateral fashion. I would definitely name it with something. I use "Go!" because "Out" is my drop it command. A lot of people use out. Does that make sense??

I forgot to mention...make sure you practice both sending forward and sending your dog laterally. 

If you looking for something to help you at home to teach various handling skills...Linda Mecklenberg has a kick ass handling book. http://cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2717 There are small drills all throughout this book which would be easy to build in a backyard. It's a must have in anyone's agility library. 

I like your backsides...that's something we need to work on more with. 

Great work!


----------



## DJEtzel

trainingjunkie said:


> I really enjoyed watching! You guys look great and you're going to have a ton of fun!
> 
> I only had a couple of questions/thoughts:
> 
> When you reward on the "send," I question the decision to have him come back to you for his reward. I would consider tossing the toy onto his line of travel AWAY from you and headed in the direction that you want him to travel. Then recall him back for the play. I wonder if you are inadvertently turning your "send" into more of a "wrap" by consistently having him turn back to you. Just food for thought!
> 
> Your "backsides" look really nice! It looks like you are really ready to put then into context and add the jumps into and out of the exercise.
> 
> Nice job! Congratulations!





MrsBoats said:


> Great advice...I am going to echo this same exact thing. You are making him wrap instead of send. A forward send is used to send your dog to an obstacle while you are moving and getting in place to continue setting the dogs path. I use sends so I can get myself in place for a front or blind cross a jump or two in front of my dog. I would start practicing sending him over a jump and rewarding him with a toy thrown t the ground about 8' past the jump while you move off in a lateral fashion. I would definitely name it with something. I use "Go!" because "Out" is my drop it command. A lot of people use out. Does that make sense??
> 
> I forgot to mention...make sure you practice both sending forward and sending your dog laterally.
> 
> If you looking for something to help you at home to teach various handling skills...Linda Mecklenberg has a kick ass handling book. http://cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2717 There are small drills all throughout this book which would be easy to build in a backyard. It's a must have in anyone's agility library.
> 
> I like your backsides...that's something we need to work on more with.
> 
> Great work!


Thank you guys! 

I *knew* I was doing this and shouldn't be, and during training classes I usually do throw toys out for him and I'll start doing that at home, too. He is not good about coming back to play unfortunately, and I wanted to keep him amped up (which worked really well!) so I kept him coming back, but I was thinking about how I probably shouldn't be doing it most of the time. That and there was some poop in the yard I hadn't picked up and I didn't want the new toy to get all poopy. XD

I'm glad the backsides look good- I have never trained one before that video, and he started to run past the jump when I called him back and he hit it, so I just went with it and it looked awesome to me, but I wasn't sure if it was "right" or if I was doing anything wrong with it, really. 

A+ on stuff I don't know and F on stuff I do. 

Found an awesome deal on $25 dog walk and Recon's breeder offered me a teeter base, table base, set of weaves, tire, and chute, so we will have more to work with soon!


----------



## DJEtzel

Here's a video of some weave work we started on again. Just some clips of our 15 or so minutes of practice. I'm pretty proud of him- this is the best he's ever done and the first time we had worked on weaves since before his injury, so the first time having them closed up more, and some of the last clips were even more closed with awesome entrances, or so I think? Maybe they aren't that fantastic, but he made me proud regardless! I'm hoping to get out there regularly this week and work on it daily. 

http://flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/38k2vN


----------



## kadylady

First, love your videos DJEtzel! I watched your backsides video, and then that night we learned them in my class. So thanks, I felt like I knew what I was doing a little! lol 

The club where I am taking my classes at does not cover weaves in the handling classes, so I have started on my own, with the help of reading and youtube. My attempt was to do the 2x2 method, not sure how closely we followed but it at least got us started. My biggest struggle so far I think has been getting her to drive forward. She is very food motivated but it can be difficult to get her toy motivated. I tried a bunch of stuff and found a couple things that worked and we have finally gotten up to 6 poles consistently.

One thing I am really not sure of is how to react when she does pop out or miss an entrance. So far I have just been stopping and starting over, trying not to make much of a reaction because she can be a little sensitive. Not sure if that is the appropriate response? After videoing and watching several practice sessions I noticed that it seemed like the times she did pop out (usually at pole 4 or 5) it was when I got ahead of her. So I tried to stay a little behind her and that seemed to lessen the occurrences. Is that okay for now, until she gets more consistent and confident or is there something I should be doing to correct that?

Here is a video from tonight, would love any feedback! 






She was really unmotivated and distracted when we started tonight. So I pulled out her water only toy that we take to the lake to practice dock diving (the one toy she LOVES), and wow! She perked right up! Will have to use that sparingly.


----------



## Miss Bugs

the Gem monster is back in agility classes  level 2 but with a different club so the levels are a tad different lol, apparently this classes level one only teaches some of the obstacles but all the way, the one I did teaches all of the obstacles at basic level..made an odd learning curve lol, for example the folks in this class had not learned weave or chute at all, but Gem already knows weaves and chutes, but they were doing full height teeters and other contacts, which Gem has never done! it was fine, Gem has no fear so the only problem with full height contacts was..well the same issue she had with teeter on the ground..she LOVES the crashing noise, which is a problem on the full height teeter because in order to make it make the biggest crash possible she has to tear over it at high speed and launch off the end like she's dock diving :redface: other then that she did great, aside from bar knocking on the jumps, but that was just because all the other dogs in the class are small, so the jumps were set low..Gem always knocks bars of lows jumps, but never of high ones, she looks at low ones like they are not worth her while to bother with lol


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Kady, a couple of thoughts regarding the video:

If the dog misses the entrance but is already weaving, don't pull the dog out of the weaves. The dog doesn't remember that they missed the first poll and will not understand why they're being corrected. It can make a sensitive dog even more sensitive. 

Do you see how the dog looks toward you when it finishes the polls? That's because your reward is late. You should be throwing the reward forward before the dog has a chance to look at you. If you'd prefer to use food, that's fine too. You can throw a piece of food out in front of the dog, or use a bait bag that can be thrown. Alternatively, a food bowl can be used as a target near the end of the weaves.

Also, I like how you're working on both sides of the weave polls, but make sure you vary the direction, too. To make practice more efficient, weave forwards, then turn around and weave backwards.


----------



## kadylady

GottaLuvMutts: Responses in bold...



GottaLuvMutts said:


> Kady, a couple of thoughts regarding the video:
> 
> If the dog misses the entrance but is already weaving, don't pull the dog out of the weaves. The dog doesn't remember that they missed the first poll and will not understand why they're being corrected. It can make a sensitive dog even more sensitive.
> 
> *So if she misses the entrance let her keep going. Would I treat/reward her at the end still or just go back and try again? How about if she gets the entrance but comes out somewhere in the middle? Same thing? Was actually discussing with some agility peeps at a trial this weekend about whether or not you stop and re-try the weaves in a competition, it was interesting the different responses. *
> 
> Do you see how the dog looks toward you when it finishes the polls? That's because your reward is late. You should be throwing the reward forward before the dog has a chance to look at you. If you'd prefer to use food, that's fine too. You can throw a piece of food out in front of the dog, or use a bait bag that can be thrown. Alternatively, a food bowl can be used as a target near the end of the weaves.
> 
> *Yes I did see that and have been trying to be more conscious of that. For awhile she was not finishing the last pole (probably due to my timing) and so I was trying to make sure she was finishing before rewarding but I see the problem that was causing. I have been alternating between throwing toy and throwing food, seems to just depend on her mood that day what she works best for.*
> 
> Also, I like how you're working on both sides of the weave polls, but make sure you vary the direction, too. To make practice more efficient, weave forwards, then turn around and weave backwards.


Thank you very much for the feedback GottaLuvMutts! I really appreciate it! She seems to be getting more consistent, less missed entrances and less popping out. I do need to spend more time proofing entrances and working different angles. When do you recommend going from 6 to 12?


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

kadylady said:


> GottaLuvMutts: Responses in bold...
> 
> Thank you very much for the feedback GottaLuvMutts! I really appreciate it! She seems to be getting more consistent, less missed entrances and less popping out. I do need to spend more time proofing entrances and working different angles. When do you recommend going from 6 to 12?


I guess I'd reward for a good attempt at the beginning, but after she "gets it", only reward for perfect. Stop and retry is probably dependent on dog and venue. Some dogs will shut down if corrected, others don't care. Some venues allow you to retry the weaves if entrance missed or popped out, others don't allow that. In general, I will go back and try the weaves again if I don't get them the first time, even in a competition. 

If things are going well for you, here's a few proofing exercises to try:
Can you hold a toy visible in your hand while the dog weaves? 
Can you do a front cross while the dog is weaving?
Can you do a rear cross while the dog is weaving? (tougher than it sounds!)
What if you stand still and cue the weaves with your voice only?
How about distance?
Test the boundaries of the angles at which your dog can successfully get the entrance. Then stretch them.

I'm not sure there's a huge rush to get to 12 polls. Usually if the dog can successfully do 6, 12 isn't much of a leap.


----------



## DJEtzel

Here's a little clip from last Wednesday night. My co-worker was the only one that showed up for her class that I was teaching, so we just left the course and worked on some drills together! Had a great time and Recon ran SO SMOOTHLY. My handling leaves much to be desired, but we're getting there. Maybe a trial by the end of the year won't be a ridiculous thought! 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151595660377705&l=5706331409582587223

I know my first FC was terribly late, I had to stay to support unfortunately, but other than that, I welcome all critique!


----------



## CoverTune

I guess I should be posting my Corona updates here instead, so I'll just repeat what I said, lol. At class last night, the instructor STRONGLY recommended that we enter a trial that's in two weeks, but I'm not sure... even if we just entered the Jumpers classes, we haven't worked with a tire jump in a couple of years and Corona liked to run under that jump!

Here's a little clip from class..


----------



## LoMD13

Sort of an interesting observation I made this week. I've been trying to build Lo's interest in toys at our facility. She'll be very very toy driven at home, but then get to agility and she'll humor me for a minute but she's clearly uninterested. I always took it as an "at home" vs "out in public" sort of thing, but this past week we were at an assisted living home doing a therapy visit, and one of the residents had bought a stuffie for her. I expected the usual "Meh", but she was LOVING it. Fetching, tugging, the works. So now I just gotta figure out how to bring it to agility, and what the roadblocks there are.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have an Agility trial coming up next weekend. It will be Lucy's first trial so I just have her in Jumpers on Saturday and as there is no Jumpers on Sunday, I have her in Snooker on Sunday. I am not expecting much as she has not had a class since spring, I have just been practicing at home although I did do a Rally class a few months ago just to get her out around strange people and dogs. It is being put on by the Agility club I belong to and is local.

I have Remmy entered also, then have him in a three day trial the following weekend and a third trial two weeks after that. That will probably be all the trials for this year. I will be camping out for the other two trials. Hopefully my sister can video the local trial for me.


----------



## CoverTune

At the insistence of my instructor and classmates, I've entered next weekend's trial. There's a reasonable chance I'll chicken out though and not go.. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing and without a mentor/friend to go with, the closer it gets, the more uncomfortable I'm getting.

Class has been a BLAST though, and I do hope to trial eventually.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

CoverTune said:


> At the insistence of my instructor and classmates, I've entered next weekend's trial. There's a reasonable chance I'll chicken out though and not go.. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing and without a mentor/friend to go with, the closer it gets, the more uncomfortable I'm getting.
> 
> Class has been a BLAST though, and I do hope to trial eventually.


What's the venue? AKC? USDAA? NADAC? CPE? other? Most people I've met at agility trials are very friendly and if you identify yourself to them as a newbie, they would be happy to show you the ropes. It's not meant to be scary!


----------



## CoverTune

GottaLuvMutts said:


> What's the venue? AKC? USDAA? NADAC? CPE? other? Most people I've met at agility trials are very friendly and if you identify yourself to them as a newbie, they would be happy to show you the ropes. It's not meant to be scary!


It's AAC. I just don't like having no clue how things work or what the expectations are.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I am going to the three day trial next weekend. If it is the same one, I will keep an eye out for you. I have Remmy entered all three days and will be camping in my fifth-wheel trailer. I have found the AAC trials to be very friendly, have made lots of friends at them. I just came home from a trial today and will be going back tomorrow. I had Lucy in her first trial ever, in Starters Jumpers. She did great, had a clean run but we are not quite working together as a team yet so we lost out on time by 4 seconds but I was really pleased with her. I have her in a Snooker Class tomorrow as they did not have another Jumpers class for her.

Remmy had his usual Zoomie class in Master Standard, did really well in Masters Gambler although we did not Q and we were both tired by his last class so did not do too well. It was great fun and the weather co-operated as it was cloudy and only around 20 instead of the 30 it has been.


----------



## CoverTune

5 Star in Kamloops? We can't do weaves yet, so I've just entered the Starters Jumper classes, as a Special, on Friday and Sunday.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Will see you there. You can't miss Remmy. I have him in Master Jumpers. 2 Master Gamblers and 1 Advanced Snooker. Lucy does not do the weaves yet either so that is why I had her in Jumpers and in Snooker tomorrow as you can choose most of your course and usually avoid having to do the weaves and she does everything else. I don't have her entered next weekend or the weekend of 14th 15th, just have Remmy in. Running two dogs when it is really hot is too much for me.

My shade tentis a big white one and you are welcome to share it with me.


----------



## Kyllobernese

As a matter of interest, the AAC has brought in a rule that your dog does not have to lie down on the table now. They start the count as soon as all four feet are on the table whether it is standing, sitting or walking around as long as it does not jump off. Sure speeds things up because so often the handlers spend time trying to get their dogs to lie down and some dogs got penalized as the way they were built it was hard for them to lie down flat enough to suit the judge.

This weekends trial was the first time I have seen it done.


----------



## CoverTune

I hadn't thought of Snooker as another no-weaves option.. that's a good idea. It would be great if I could share your tent! I'll send you a PM with my cell # and we can figure out details via text if that's cool.

I'm not sure how I feel about the new AAC rule.. for those breeds that you're referencing I'm sure it's a good thing, but I gotta say, I love watching dogs hit that table and drop to their belly. Any idea the reasoning behind the change?

I have a friend from the coast who's planning to meet me at the trial and give me a hand.. she's been to a number of trials (and plans to get into agility with her new puppy) so she'll help keep me from wussing out... hopefully.


----------



## CoverTune

Hm, I can't send you a PM.. maybe email me? covertune[at]mac.com

We had practice today at a new (to us) location and I was feeling pretty great after our first turn, she was totally focussed on me and didn't miss a thing. Then we had two crappy turns, and then an ok turn. And then I found out that there's going to be a chute in our classes *facepalm*


----------



## Indigo

kadylady said:


> My biggest struggle so far I think has been getting her to drive forward. She is very food motivated but it can be difficult to get her toy motivated. I tried a bunch of stuff and found a couple things that worked and we have finally gotten up to 6 poles consistently.


Curious, what did you try? The water toy seems to work well in the video.

I had the same issues with my dog not caring for toys, and I eventually fixed it by deliberately training him to love tennis balls for flyball. The side effect of him being motivated by the tennis ball alone was accidental and totally awesome.

Prior to that I used one of these:
http://www.nkconcepts.com/foodtube.htm
Found one at the hardware store actually. Their original function was to store small things like bolts and screws. Instead I filled it with treats. It worked okay, but getting him to love a toy made things much easier.


----------



## kadylady

Good luck to everyone this weekend at trials! Zoey and I will be competing in our first trial on Saturday! It's a CPE trial and I am thinking that we will try Colors and Standard. This trial is at an indoor facility that is very very similar to the place we train at. In Sept the club I train with is hosting an outdoor CPE trial so my instructor strongly recommended going to this one indoor for our very first trial. I am very excited! We started this agility journey almost exactly a year ago and I can't believe how far we have come and how much we both love it! Hoping that one of my friends will come with me to the trial and take some video!



Indigo said:


> Curious, what did you try? The water toy seems to work well in the video.
> 
> I had the same issues with my dog not caring for toys, and I eventually fixed it by deliberately training him to love tennis balls for flyball. The side effect of him being motivated by the tennis ball alone was accidental and totally awesome.


When I was trying to get her to drive through the weave poles, after trying with a target and tossing my bait bag, I ended up putting a jump at the end of the weaves because ever since the beginning she has always drove to the jumps. It really helped until I could up her toy drive.

With the toy drive I had to try a few different toys to figure out what she liked best, and I'm finding that it is still variable. Sometimes she goes crazy for her plain old rope, other times I have to go for the Kong wubba and use the squeaker to amp her up. I also had to really up my level of excitement to get her excited. Like way over the top. My neighbors probably think I'm looney lol. Also she is more toy drivey when she has some pent up energy to release. I'm very happy with the drive she has developed though. Is it weird that it makes me happy that she wants to tug on her leash now?! lol


----------



## DJEtzel

Here's a video of a short sequence Recon and I worked on with a friend last week. We're both getting better! Couldn't figure out why he dropped that bar... 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151631202857705&l=2438319482875023498

We are leaving for BC Nationals in 5 days now... can't wait!! I will have so many stories and pictures to post. XD I'll hopefully be running a friend's dog in FAST one day as well, which should prove educational. 

Recon is officially entered into beginners weaves and teeter class with my co-trainer starting the week after BC Nats. This will be perfect to get us through the fall and hopefully we can trial before the year's over in AKC!


----------



## Indigo

kadylady said:


> Is it weird that it makes me happy that she wants to tug on her leash now?! lol


Haha!
A lot of people here use tug leashes so that's not really all that strange. 
http://www.kollarsbykathryn.com/DSC_0004_op_800x534.jpg


----------



## Indigo

Kyllobernese said:


> As a matter of interest, the AAC has brought in a rule that your dog does not have to lie down on the table now. They start the count as soon as all four feet are on the table whether it is standing, sitting or walking around as long as it does not jump off. Sure speeds things up because so often the handlers spend time trying to get their dogs to lie down and some dogs got penalized as the way they were built it was hard for them to lie down flat enough to suit the judge.


I can sort of see why they did it... how low is enough to be down can be subjective and I guess they want to eliminate that. Is a sit not good enough though? I've seen dogs have trouble with down but not really with sitting.
To me the rule change kind of reduces the challenge of control in favor of speed... which further helps driven dogs and reduces the tiny advantage that methodical dogs might have. The whole point of the obstacle is to show impulse control. Next shall we remove contact zones because some dogs have too big a stride? Just a thought.


----------



## kadylady

Indigo said:


> Haha!
> A lot of people here use tug leashes so that's not really all that strange.
> http://www.kollarsbykathryn.com/DSC_0004_op_800x534.jpg


Already have one picked out, probably her Christmas present! lol


----------



## GrinningDog

Good luck at your trials this weekend, guys! And DJ, I'm looking forward to hearing about BC Nationals. Yes, take lots of pictures! 

Gypsy and I have 1 more week of our second agility course. Last Monday, to end class, we did a 9-obstacle run that included slightly tilted weaves (which Gypsy loves), tunnels and jumps. Gyp did GREAT. Her (my?) only major mistake was veering off course and doing the teter right at the end. The other BC in the class did that, too. I was actually happy about it, because teter is Gyp's weakest obstacle. It made me happy that she was open to trying it!

We're getting to the point where my handling REALLY matters. Gyp is so dang fast (and enthusiastic), and I don't know what I'm doing yet. Haha. We're having a blast with it!


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know even though they have changed the table rules, I will still have my dog down as she is good at it. My sister has a Rat Terrier and it is very hard for her to do a down tight enough to please some judges. I even had one judge tell me that Remmy was not right down when that is the only way he can go down. He ended up jumping off the table as he could not figure out why I was telling him to down when he was already lying down. They have eliminated the table in Masters classes so don't have to worry about it now for him.

I have not started with Kris yet but will probably do a sit with her.


----------



## CoverTune

Corona and I had our first trial class yesterday, a really nice Starters Jumpers course. My handling wasn't great, I missed some crosses, but thankfully with a small dog, it's not as hard to keep up and take the long way around.. but Corona was a total STAR and we had a clean run!!! I'm not certain, but I think we may have even gotten a Q! She had no problem with the jumps and didn't even bat at an eye at any of the tunnels, like she'd done it a hundred times before.

Tomorrow we have another Starters Jumper class and I'm trying not to get my expectations up, lol.

They've got a photographer and videographer at the trial, so I'd like to see if I can get a copy of our run.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats on success at your first trial CoverTune!

I know the feeling....Just got home from mine and Zoey's first trial! She was fantastic! She was composed and relaxed the whole time and ran beautifully! We ran Level 1 Colors and Level 1 Standard, Q'd and first place in both classes! So so so so proud of her right now! Video's and pics to come!


----------



## CoverTune

Congratulations kadylady, that's a fantastic first trial!

Corona and I were back at it today. I found out that we missed our Q on Friday by 1.6 seconds - ugh, that hurts! Today's course was a bit trickier, and longer, and we had a couple of minor bobbles especially when I made a poor front cross which got the Chi out of position for the next jump.. but she managed to complete every obstacle (including the chute!) and stayed with me pretty well. We ended up with 28 faults - ouch - but I really have zero complaints about her performance. The whole weekend went so much better than I had envisioned!


----------



## Sibe

Wow, everyone is doing awesome things!! Congrats and good luck all.

My next AKC trial is mid-Sept with Denali. 3 day trial, and I'm signed up for only Open JWW all 3 days. I'm determined to get our last Open JWW Q! Even moreso, I'm determined to have fun with my dog and enjoy competing with her in a sport we both love. :rockon:

We've been stuck in Open JWW for so dang long, I'm just ready to move on!


----------



## kadylady

Here is the video my friend put together of our runs on Saturday!


----------



## CoverTune

Very nice, and what a snazzy facility! What is Color?


----------



## Kyllobernese

I saw Corona's run on Friday and she did great for her first time out. She is certainly one of the smallest dogs I have seen compete in our area. Some of the courses it is hard to make the time with the smaller dogs. Lucy's first trial a couple of weeks ago, she was 4 seconds to slow but that was mostly my fault as she was waiting for me so also got a fault as she turned in a circle before a jump as she was not sure whether to take it or not. I am not going to compete with her again till next year as she is just 18 months old and we can train more this winter so she will learn to go on without me.


----------



## kadylady

CoverTune said:


> Very nice, and what a snazzy facility! What is Color?


The facility is really great and from what I have seen so far they hold a lot of trials for several venues, and are only an hour away so I am sure we will be competing there again.

Colors is one of the CPE games. There are basically two courses that overlap and you pick which course you want to run. They are labeled with two different color cones. It was a pretty easy course, only 9 obstacles and it seemed to flow well, so I was pretty glad I entered that for our first time out. I haven't quite figured out all of the point games yet, but am getting a better idea now that I have seen them run. I would have liked to enter Jumpers but it was running last that day and I didn't want to throw too much at her.


----------



## CoverTune

I just got terrible news this morning.. my instructor is moving away at the end of this month! I don't know yet if that will mean the end of our little agility group or what, but I'm really disappointed. This instructor has been so fantastic, she explains things extremely well and is great at breaking things up into tiny little steps so both dog and human can figure it out quickly.

I should know more in a week or so.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Glad you two had a good time at your first trials!

Kit and I trialed over the weekend. We got 8 Q's out of 12 runs. 4 of those were Regular runs, and based on our times, we won third place in the Columbia Cup (elite large dogs). I was proud. Also very happy to be back to weekly classes - summer is pretty hit and miss around here.


----------



## CoverTune

Here's a video of our clean run the Friday night..


----------



## kadylady

Nice job CoverTune!!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations!!! Super nice! Way to go!!!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Yay!!! Nice job, CoverTune


----------



## MegaMuttMom

I haven't been on DF in ages. Just thought I'd pop in and say Cherokee has been amazing at agility and we just missed 2 weeks of class. On his return to class he was so happy/excited that he pulled off some serious goofy zoomies and had everyone cracking up. Then he got busy and showed all the other dogs how to do things the right way. He's so much fun. I haven't been trialing because they just start too darn early in the morning and it is exhausting to spend the whole day with him around tons of other people and dogs. So, we just keep going to class for the fun and the way it helps us work together in every-day life. He is such a great dog.


----------



## GrinningDog

I love hearing everyone's updates. And seeing trial and practice videos. More, please!  I understand what I'm watching now, haha. 

Gypsy and I graduated from Beginner to Advanced Beginner Agility on Monday. ABA is held on Mondays after Beginner, so we were invited to stay after class to see what we'd be doing next session. The last class of ABA was a mock CPE Trial. Gyp and I participated. It was a blast! We did Snooker (?), where you make your own course and collect as many points as possible in a given time, with certain required obstacles. Especially considering we'd never done anything near this in Beginner, Gypsy did GREAT. Funfunfun.


----------



## DJEtzel

Hoping to get some more videos next week, but we had our first teeter and weaves class last night (Recon) and decided to switch from the beginner class to the advanced class since he was sending to weaves accurately from 10 feet away at angles and completing an entire set (12 poles bent just a smidgeon) and apparently loves the teeter again (he had recently been afraid and hated it) and was driving over it with crosses and angles thrown in there as well. My little boy is growing up, and thankfully leaving his fear stages in the past! XD


----------



## Sibe

AKC three day trial this weekend, I'm doing Open JWW all three days. C'mon Denali, let's get you that title! Only need 1 more Q.


----------



## Miss Bugs

dunno if this will work for everyone lol

https://www.facebook.com/EncoreDogsports?hc_location=stream

the video on this page "Gem at last class of agility this set" this was beginner level 2..SHE is doing pretty good...MY handling kinda sucked lol


----------



## Sibe

*grumbles*
3 day AKC trial. Denali does not like the judge, she has issues with male judges. Today she hit her poles great and just as she went in the judge started walking toward us and she popped out. I tried to send her through again and she wouldn't go in at all so I skipped them and we just kept going, moving away from the judge. She finished awesome!! We'll see how she does tomorrow.

Video uploading, I'll add it later tonight. It's incredible how sensitive she is to the judge.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Had a great class this week. Three runs that were nearly perfect. Other people were working on the pieces that didn't go well for them, but since we nailed each one, I got an opportunity to think about alternate ways of handling pieces and then try it out. I just love running my eager beaver. 

As an extra bonus, Kit always enjoys seeing her human friends in class. I put her in a stay on a couch (she's allowed to move around, as long as she's on the couch). People will come by and greet her, and she just goes nuts. Tail wagging a million miles an hour, and feet so close to the edge of the couch I dunno how she keeps her balance. Sometimes people will give her treats, which sends her right over the top. Always makes me laugh.


----------



## Sibe

Here we go. The scary judge, aaaaahhh!!!! I don't think I'll be trialing with him again, it's just too stressful for Denali.


----------



## Miss Bugs

that wasn't THAT bad sibe! just a little stress avoidance, but he picked it back up and did ok. Gem totally freaked out when a guy videoed her yesterday, litterally walked into several jumps, and wouldn't stop staring and growling under her breath lol


----------



## Miss Bugs

Gem's response to be video'd..by a guy she has known forever BTW :doh: lol


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had the most fantastic judge at our show this weekend. In his first class, Remmy had everyone (except me) almost rolling on the floor laughing at his antics, including the judge. He decided he was going to do the most fantasctic "zoomy" ever and he certainly did. Completely ignoring me and doing all the obstacles just enjoying every minutes. I goofed up in both our Advanced Snooker, his Master Jumpers was great once he had gone through the tunnel three times. He and I were just not getting together.

It was really hot out and I had only one class on Sunday, an Advanced Snooker and we somehow managed to goof up right at the start. I went back to the trailer, intending to head for home. There was a knock on the door and someone said the judge wanted to see me. She had paid for an FEO start for me in Starter Snooker as she "wanted to see Remmy run" again. He did great distance work, even came out of the tunnel and I just said "weave" and he ran right to the weaves and did them perfectly. I thought that was so nice of her as she knew how disappointed I was with my other Snooker class, not even getting to run. It made the whole weekend worthwhile to know that someone cared enough to do that.


----------



## Sibe

Goodness Bugs!

Same thing today, I didn't ask her to try the weaves a third time. She was *phenomenal* the entire run except the part closest to the judge. Tomorrow I'm taking her to the beach, and we're skipping class Tuesday to give her a week off.


----------



## Kayota

So as I posted in my thread Faxon and I start private Agility lessons on Wednesday night  I'll update you guys on how it goes!


----------



## kadylady

We have our 2nd trial this weekend (CPE again), going to do 2 days this time. I signed up for 3 classes each day. We have 2 rounds of standard and colors on Saturday then Snooker, Fullhouse and Jumpers on Sunday. I keep studying the games like crazy. This trial is outside, so hoping that isn't too much of a distraction for her.


----------



## LoMD13

Yay, our speed is back! We've had a couple of really nice classes, it's insane how much faster she is now that we've got fall temperatures out there rather than 90 degrees. Everything seems to be clicking right now, she's gaining confidence on the weaves, tons of confidence on the teeter (Even running to the end and riding it down). She does know the difference between class and trials, so our trial in November should be interesting.

Actually, one thing we very consistently have issues with is the table. She is SO very certain that she's supposed to "Bow" on the table and it always takes about 5-10 seconds for me to get her to drop her bum. I really hope USDAA changes their rules on that someday, table has been baffling us for over a year lol.


----------



## LoMD13

Kayota said:


> So as I posted in my thread Faxon and I start private Agility lessons on Wednesday night  I'll update you guys on how it goes!


Hope you had fun! You'll get addicted fast.


----------



## Kayota

I did! It was awesome  I've always wanted to do it with Roxie too so I'm working out the kinks with my instructor as I can only afford (time and money-wise) to attend once a week. Roxie already knows how to jump and I tried some of the exercises she sent me home with and Roxie just went mad for that fun! Haha. She is such a nutso dog, I love it. She'll go freaking crazy for agility.


----------



## Laurelin

Are you doing private lessons? I do those sometimes but I bring both dogs and split the time (same cost though). In actuality my private lessons are $40 and my weeklys are $80 per 6 weeks. So to work my dog in one private lesson for 30 mins is $20 and weekly is a bit less but we get more time working in the private lesson.


----------



## Kayota

Yeah, and that's exactly what my instructor suggested--bringing both.


----------



## DJEtzel

I do the same thing as Laurelin and split the time with both dogs- Most can't focus and get a ton done working for a full hour anyway, so it's more bang for your buck!


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> Are you doing private lessons? I do those sometimes but I bring both dogs and split the time (same cost though). In actuality my private lessons are $40 and my weeklys are $80 per 6 weeks. So to work my dog in one private lesson for 30 mins is $20 and weekly is a bit less but we get more time working in the private lesson.


Man I am so, so jealous of those prices!


----------



## Kyllobernese

We pay $100 for 6 weeks with the good instructor, and $60 for the one who just sets up the equipment. I use both as it gives me a chance to once a week, work Remmy over equipment in an indoor arena, and once a week do more complicated courses with an Instructor that tells me what I am doing wrong.

I made the mistake (not knowing any better) that I only taught Remmy to weave when I am on the right side of the weaves. It has not been a problem most of the time but no matter how much I have tried, he cannot seem to understand that he can also weave when I am on the left of the weaves. I am not making that mistake again.


----------



## Kayota

LoMD13 said:


> Man I am so, so jealous of those prices!


My instructor does $15 for 30 minutes, $22 for 45 and $30 for an hour.

lol Kyllobernese, my instructor was really thrilled that I teach my dogs to walk on either side of me (as i don't really care and let them pick on walks) and put a lot of emphasis on switching sides often. she was less thrilled that i teach them to cross in front of me (as on walks the leash gets wrapped around me if they cross behind)


----------



## mashlee08

I pay $35 for 10 sessions, 1 each week over a school term, the classes normally have about 6 people in them and go for over an hour so it's pretty good value. The instructors make sure to spend lots of one on one time with people so we progress at a good rate.


----------



## Sibe

I do $65 for 6 weeks. Classes have about 5 dogs.

Usual training lesson is we walk a course, run the first part, run the second part, then put it all together. We often do a specific exercise at the end to work on things like weave entry, serpertines, wraps, Ketschker turn, sending to obstacles, distance work, etc.


----------



## Laurelin

LoMD13 said:


> Man I am so, so jealous of those prices!


I also get discounts since I have multiple dogs. 

There are 5 dogs in my regular class usually. My class right now is all small dogs, which is cool.


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> I also get discounts since I have multiple dogs.
> 
> There are 5 dogs in my regular class usually. My class right now is all small dogs, which is cool.


Well I pay 135 for 6 classes so now I just feel bad about my life LOL. 

We have 2 Aussies, a border collie, and a little corgi. A class of little dogs sounds fun!


----------



## Sibe

I seem to remember when I first started in Colorado that I was paying about $100 for 6 classes. Don't remember, that was about 3 years ago.


----------



## Kayota

I hope I can attend group classes when I get to the next level with my two. But I may not be living around here by then! lol


----------



## Miss Bugs

can I trade you all for prices? lol I pay $105 for 6 weeks. the first class i took was actually $75, but it was very "pet, just for the experience with no intention to compete" orientated, I don't think they meant it to be that way, but they don't even teach things properly and the instructor outright stated that what she was showing us was a horrible way to train if you actually planned to compete lol. the $105 class with a different club is much more geared to proper training and handling lol I PREFER them, however they do not have access to the large facility at times that I have access to a car lol(the facility is out of town) the one class I attended I was only able to because I got a ride with another student that I am friends with, but the other student's dog is waayyy behind my dog , so I need to move up a level and she cant lol. 

gotta say I wish I could find a class that WASN'T all small dogs! it always seems to be Gem and a bunch of little guys(well there was big guys in her fisrt class, but they were all under a year old, so the jumps were kept low anyhow), so everything constantly has to be reset for Gem, because Gem needs to jump 26"..and all the dogs in her classes jump 6"-10", so if we do anything that involves everyone just running through jumps, then everything is set so low and Gem wont even trouble herself with 6"-10", she just runs through them lol


----------



## DJEtzel

I'm so sorry for your prices! lol

I pay $45/8 weeks and it just comes out of my check, or $10 per drop in session with my handling instructor.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Geez, we are $145 for 8 weeks here ($205 if you're not a member of the club). Expensive. I'm trying to work out privates for both my guys now that I have Jari to work with and my schedule is tight, but my instructor unfortunately doesn't have any time to give to privates. Hopefully one day.....

We have 3 Border Collies and a Pom and us. The Pom just started so before it was Kimma in a sea of black and white


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

I pay $90 for 6 weeks of group classes. We get to do 3 runs per class, no matter if that takes 30 mins (if relatively few people attend) or 1.5 hrs (if lots of people attend). I consider my instructor to be the best in the area and this is his most advanced class, so I don't think it's too exorbitant. I like group classes because I get to listen to the advice that others receive - often it applies to me as well. If I'm not the first person to run, I sometimes adjust my handling based on the advice that others receive.

I'm curious: For those who have been doing agility for a while, have you ever heard of Jane Simmons-Moake? Any personal experiences with her? What do you think?


----------



## dagwall

I only did the first level of agility and it was $205 for 6 weeks, higher levels are $185 for 6 weeks. Part of the reason for me not continuing in agility is the cost, plus the demand for classes is really high so you could be wait listed. Hell $100 for 6 weeks sounds awesome for my area for ANY type of class.


----------



## GrinningDog

My (CPE) class is $95 for 6 weeks.

Locally, I could go elsewhere and spend $80 for 8 weeks or $75 for 8 weeks (both AKC facilities). But of course, I started with the expensive place, and now I really like the people there. LOL.


----------



## kadylady

Day 1 of our 2 day trial today. Overall pretty dang good for our second time ever and first time outside. We have never trained outside before (aside from practicing on my own in the backyard) so there were a lot of new distractions for Zoey. Add in that it is a male judge (she is nervous around men she doesn't know) who had to measure her this morning (which was almost impossible). She decided during our Colors run (which was our third and final run of the day) that she needed to tell him how much she did not like him. Thankfully the judge was very nice, and we were able to complete the run for a Q. We also Q'd in one of our 2 standard runs. Video of our colors run today: 




Tomorrow we attempt Snooker, Fullhouse and Jumpers all for the first time.

I also pay $100 for 8 week classes at my club. Once I become a member it will be $80 I think. But they are going to be dropping from 8 weeks to 6 weeks.


----------



## Laurelin

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I'm curious: For those who have been doing agility for a while, have you ever heard of Jane Simmons-Moake? Any personal experiences with her? What do you think?


I don't KNOW her nor have I taken any classes with her, however she attends some of the bigger AKC trials around here and I have been SUPER impressed with her dogs and also her students' dogs. I always pull up her dogs when people mention that golden retrievers are boring and not driven. Her dogs are electric and they frequently win the border collie classes. A lot of her students run goldens as well and a friend mentioned that she breeds goldens? 

Anyways, love watching her run.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Laurelin said:


> I don't KNOW her nor have I taken any classes with her, however she attends some of the bigger AKC trials around here and I have been SUPER impressed with her dogs and also her students' dogs. I always pull up her dogs when people mention that golden retrievers are boring and not driven. Her dogs are electric and they frequently win the border collie classes. A lot of her students run goldens as well and a friend mentioned that she breeds goldens?
> 
> Anyways, love watching her run.


She has written a ton of books. If you are considering her for a coach, I would think that looking at her books will tell you a lot about her theories and how she works.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah haven't looked up her books or anything. Just know the name and the dogs from trials around here. Like I said, they're very fun to watch and they seem to win their classes a lot.


----------



## kadylady

No Q's on day 2 of the trial but I felt like she did better than the day before, no barking at the judge and she was listening better. The mess ups on snooker and fullhouse were my fault, and we were so close on jumpers but one too many off course faults. It was a great experience for us though and I'm really proud of how she did overall. I can't believe what a difference trialing outside makes when all of our training has been inside. She was like a totally different dog outside, and not necessarily in bad ways. When we train she is so serious about everything (and was the same way at out first trial indoors), outside she was faster and bouncier and goofier, obviously more distracted. It was interesting for sure, safe to say we both had a good time though. I think she was on a high when we got home Sunday because she was tearing around the house and yard and terrorizing Luke, took about an hour or so for her to finally crash. 

No good videos from Sunday but here's a pic from Saturday night.


We start class again next week, thinking about entering a trial the last weekend in October at the indoor facility we went to the first time.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations! Great picture!


----------



## LoMD13

We learned something new today- backside jumps! Lola looked at me like I'd lost my mind the first time I asked her to do one. She did it, but she was like "wait, what? Really?"

As an aside, her individual obstacle performance is getting SO much better but she's slowing down between obstacles. So good news and bad news! I'm so proud of her teeter and weaves though. The teeter she runs to the very end and then rides it down like a champ. The weaves, ever since I started adding distance it's like she had a brain flashlight. she's looking up at me a LOT less and just running through them.


----------



## Sibe

LoMD13 said:


> We learned something new today- backside jumps! Lola looked at me like I'd lost my mind the first time I asked her to do one. She did it, but she was like "wait, what? Really?"
> 
> As an aside, her individual obstacle performance is getting SO much better but she's slowing down between obstacles. So good news and bad news! I'm so proud of her teeter and weaves though. The teeter she runs to the very end and then rides it down like a champ. The weaves, ever since I started adding distance it's like she had a brain flashlight. she's looking up at me a LOT less and just running through them.


 I like doing the back side! Are you going to have a word for it? Many people use "push."

The Ketschker turn is our new one and I love it. I'm slowly getting used to blind crosses and having her go behind me. I like having my eyes on her but I'm using blinds more on tunnels now and the Ketschker is just so much fun!


----------



## LoMD13

Sibe said:


> I like doing the back side! Are you going to have a word for it? Many people use "push."
> 
> The Ketschker turn is our new one and I love it. I'm slowly getting used to blind crosses and having her go behind me. I like having my eyes on her but I'm using blinds more on tunnels now and the Ketschker is just so much fun!


I am going to name it once she's seen it a few more times. I've never heard of a ketschker turn, going to go google it!! We've never done blind crosses, I mostly use front crosses because she's much, much faster when she's "chasing" me. I'll use an occasional rear, but she's not really that comfortable with them.


----------



## Sibe

Watch the video, it shows great uses! Basically you are facing your dog, with your back to the jump. Let's say the jump is just to your right (behind you). You use your right arm to pull the dog over the jump. Your dog goes behind your back to your left, then you reward with your left hand.

Like a front cross but the dog is going behind your back.


----------



## Laurelin

We started doing some foundation work for Ketschkers about 2 weeks ago. I use out for backside jumps. Push would have probably been better.

Since all I have is a tiny yard and 3 jumps really we do a lot of threadles, backsides, things like that.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Some pictures from Remmy's last trial of the year. No Q's but he had fun.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/Kyllobernese/DSC01293.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/Kyllobernese/DSC01290.jpg


----------



## Sibe

Kyllobernese said:


> Some pictures from Remmy's last trial of the year. No Q's but he had fun.
> 
> http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/Kyllobernese/DSC01293.jpg
> 
> http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/Kyllobernese/DSC01290.jpg


 Nice pictures!! Even at distance his eyes are stunning.


----------



## elrohwen

Sent in the registration for my first agility class! It starts November 7th and is 6 weeks. I was stuck between whether I should do the Foundations class or Beginners, but the Foundations isn't offered this session so that made the decision easier. I'm a bit nervous about jumping right into beginners, but from the class descriptions it sounds like Foundations is stuff we have covered a million times in obedience classes (stay, sit, touch, etc) and is more for puppies or very green dogs. They do recommend Beginners for anyone who hasn't done agility before, so there is no requirement to start with Foundations. 

I'm pretty nervous about how my wild child is gonna do. I think he will either love it and be totally in the zone with faster paced activities, or he will be a hot mess. lol


----------



## LoMD13

Oh good, I can't wait to hear how Watson does!!!! 

We had another really nice class today. It's amazing how just the weather change can bring such a change in her speed. It was a tough long course (20 obstacles) and Lola was...well I won't say fast (115 seconds) but she was running enthusiastically and about as fast as she can get, so that's all I want. 

I *think* we're going try to run Standard for the first time ever this November. It might be a disaster since she still bows on the table, but why not lol.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Laurelin said:


> I don't KNOW her nor have I taken any classes with her, however she attends some of the bigger AKC trials around here and I have been SUPER impressed with her dogs and also her students' dogs. I always pull up her dogs when people mention that golden retrievers are boring and not driven. Her dogs are electric and they frequently win the border collie classes. A lot of her students run goldens as well and a friend mentioned that she breeds goldens?
> 
> Anyways, love watching her run.


Thanks, Laurelin. The reason I ask is because I'm moving to Texas in January. Her training facility is about an hour from me. I've look at her website and was impressed, but it's hard to tell from someone's website whether they're actually good. Now that my news about moving is public, I've asked some local folks and a few of them knew of her. That's a good sign I think.


----------



## Shaina

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I'm curious: For those who have been doing agility for a while, have you ever heard of Jane Simmons-Moake? Any personal experiences with her? What do you think?


I have never worked with her as she hasn't done anything up my way in a while but she used to do seminars in my current area periodically and I've never anything but good things about her from people that I have worked with. 

Second-hand, I know, but the universal opinion of people I do know who've worked with her has been both-thumbs-up.

Good luck with the move!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Thanks, Laurelin. The reason I ask is because I'm moving to Texas in January. Her training facility is about an hour from me. I've look at her website and was impressed, but it's hard to tell from someone's website whether they're actually good. Now that my news about moving is public, I've asked some local folks and a few of them knew of her. That's a good sign I think.


I used to live outside of Houston, and her facility was one of the places I was considering taking Kimma to before we moved back home. We chose another place for a more specific breed reason (long story that may not even involve her), but that decision to go elsewhere was based on one good friend's experience. I will say that her facility generally is very well-known in the area for producing some great dogs.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Finkie_Mom said:


> I used to live outside of Houston, and her facility was one of the places I was considering taking Kimma to before we moved back home. We chose another place for a more specific breed reason (long story that may not even involve her), but that decision to go elsewhere was based on one good friend's experience. I will say that her facility generally is very well-known in the area for producing some great dogs.


Can you tell me about the place you chose instead? PM is fine if you don't want to share details publicly. Thanks!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Can you tell me about the place you chose instead? PM is fine if you don't want to share details publicly. Thanks!


PM sent


----------



## Laurelin

Things have been going really well in classes so we entered our first travel-trial next month.  I'm excited! Maybe Summer will magically Q in jumpers/gamblers both days and title. lol


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY! Kimma got her AX with a first place today

She's the first Finnish Spitz female to achieve that title and only the fourth Finnish Spitz ever. I think she's also the youngest (still researching that) and got there in the shortest amount of time (we've only been trialing for a year).

AHHHEEEEE!!! Love my babydog <3

And now, we take a break for a couple of months so that she can maybe de-stress and work on other things. All of our NQs lately have been over times/she stresses and refuses something. Super frustrating, especially because we will be over by like a second, or she will just refuse one jump/one tunnel entry. So break time it is! We will go on hikes, maybe try for more Rally stuff, and just have fun for a bit

(Oh, and in the Standard ring today she was so not stressed at all - she ran happily and pretty fast - a marked difference from our JWW today where she was over time by a total of 5 seconds and trotted the entire thing)


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations!!!! That's wonderful! Enjoy your well-earned break!!!

You need to update your signature now!!! 

Video?


----------



## Finkie_Mom

trainingjunkie said:


> Congratulations!!!! That's wonderful! Enjoy your well-earned break!!!
> 
> You need to update your signature now!!!
> 
> Video?


Thank you so much! Yes my signature is WAY out of date.... I don't even have a pic of Jari in it 

A friend took video (thank goodness!) but I'm not sure when I will get it, as it was on his camera (he ended up filming like everyone in my class that was competing today hahaha). Hopefully soon because I want to see maybe what I did differently in Standard that I didn't do in JWW to get her hyped.


----------



## Sibe

Finkie_Mom said:


> YAY! Kimma got her AX with a first place today
> 
> She's the first Finnish Spitz female to achieve that title and only the fourth Finnish Spitz ever. I think she's also the youngest (still researching that) and got there in the shortest amount of time (we've only been trialing for a year).
> 
> AHHHEEEEE!!! Love my babydog <3
> 
> And now, we take a break for a couple of months so that she can maybe de-stress and work on other things. All of our NQs lately have been over times/she stresses and refuses something. Super frustrating, especially because we will be over by like a second, or she will just refuse one jump/one tunnel entry. So break time it is! We will go on hikes, maybe try for more Rally stuff, and just have fun for a bit
> 
> (Oh, and in the Standard ring today she was so not stressed at all - she ran happily and pretty fast - a marked difference from our JWW today where she was over time by a total of 5 seconds and trotted the entire thing)


Wow, huge congratulations!!!!

I think Nali might end up being the longest ever of any breed to get her AX title haha. (Still need one more Q for her Open JWW... I haven't even run a standard course in many months).


----------



## DJEtzel

This is the course we set up for Students yesterday.. Recon and I ran it a few times first... he's getting there. No idea why he kept pushing so far out around that close jump. :/ We did eventually complete it correctly! haha.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151717418737705&l=1367817581101136491


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Trialed today and got 4 Q's out of 6 runs. That's a pretty normal Q rate for us, but geez Kit was SO happy today and the Q's we got were gorgeous runs, mostly without bobbles. Even the NQ's were very nice tries. Here's my favorite, a Touch-N-Go run. I have so many TNG Q's already that I figured I'd risk it and try some distance on this run. And it worked!!! Notice her little celebratory bark/growl thing at the end? She knows she did good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWxA-lddbgU


----------



## DJEtzel

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Trialed today and got 4 Q's out of 6 runs. That's a pretty normal Q rate for us, but geez Kit was SO happy today and the Q's we got were gorgeous runs, mostly without bobbles. Even the NQ's were very nice tries. Here's my favorite, a Touch-N-Go run. I have so many TNG Q's already that I figured I'd risk it and try some distance on this run. And it worked!!! Notice her little celebratory bark/growl thing at the end? She knows she did good.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWxA-lddbgU


Very nice!! Great distance work! What is touch and go/what venue is this? I've never heard of it before! Lol


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

TNG is one of the games in NADAC. It's a course that's mostly about contact obstacles. For example, in the video here, the course includes 2 dogwalks and 1 A-frame. Other NADAC games include tunnelers (a course of nothing but tunnels!) and weavers (includes hoops, tunnels, and three sets of weave polls). A typical NADAC trial (2 days) will include 4 regular runs, 2 chances (a distance challenge), 2 jumpers, 1 or 2 weavers, 1 or 2 TNG, and a tunnelers.


----------



## GrinningDog

Kit looks great, GLM! Great distance work, too!


----------



## SDRRanger

That was awesome GLM. That was certainly a BIG distance and Kit behaved perfectly.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

4 more Q's today, so that's 8/12 for the weekend. Best of all, two of them were Chances, which is a distance challenge that is the bane of my existence. I was *extremely* pleased about getting 2 in one weekend because it's been almost a year since we've had one!!!

Here's today's best run, a Regular course. Just a smooth run with a very happy dog. Well, except when I tripped over a hoop (I was not faulted)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HS144mDtNo

To top off a fantastic weekend, I won a free entry (worth $100) in the raffle today. I'll apply it towards my very last trial in Oregon (*tear*) which will be in early Dec. And Kit won a new food toy in the raffle - it was a big hit at dinner time.


----------



## DJEtzel

Recon is debuting on the 2nd. 

SO NERVOUS GUUUUUUH.


----------



## kadylady

DJEtzel said:


> Recon is debuting on the 2nd.
> 
> SO NERVOUS GUUUUUUH.


Exciting! Good luck to you both! What venue will you guys be doing?


----------



## DJEtzel

kadylady said:


> Exciting! Good luck to you both! What venue will you guys be doing?


We're starting out with CPE because it's around a lot this fall, and we'll be doing both CPE and AKC come springtime.  

I don't like/have the money for/have the gas mileage for/have the time for travelling too far so I'm going to stick to what is local (within a 2 hour drive) for a while. 

Thanks for the luck!


----------



## kadylady

DJEtzel said:


> We're starting out with CPE because it's around a lot this fall, and we'll be doing both CPE and AKC come springtime.
> 
> I don't like/have the money for/have the gas mileage for/have the time for travelling too far so I'm going to stick to what is local (within a 2 hour drive) for a while.
> 
> Thanks for the luck!


In Wyoming? I thought about going to that trial but decided to wait a couple weeks and am going to Dexter on the 16th instead. I hear you on the money/time thing, luckily I'm only about an hour from Dexter and they hold a lot of CPE it looks like, so that works great for us getting started.


----------



## GrinningDog

Our session finished yesterday. In the last class, Gypsy tried a full set (12 poles) of straight-up weaves for the first time. No problem! She nailed 'em! We were advanced to Intermediate II for next session. I also signed us up for the Agility "League" that begins in Nov. Basically, the facility holds a mock trial for students every week. We compete - usually CPE games, but sometimes NADAC or AKC, it sounds like - in teams that are made of dog & handlers of varying skill levels. I'm excited! And nervous, since we're among the least experienced pairs joining.

Agility twice a week will be fun! (And expensive, eek. o.o)



> Recon is debuting on the 2nd.
> 
> SO NERVOUS GUUUUUUH.


Good luck!


----------



## Laurelin

My dogs and weaving... I suck at training it. Mia is getting there at home but then at class is cheating bad. Brat. Summer doesn't get the concept at all, haha. She will do well then just start flailing jumping and trying to touch all the poles or circle them. She tries, lol. You should have seen when I tried to add guides to the poles. 

Other than that though, they're doing very well on the handling stuff. Mia's obstacle focus is incredible and my new trainer keeps talking about how talented she is.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Laurelin said:


> My dogs and weaving... I suck at training it. Mia is getting there at home but then at class is cheating bad. Brat. Summer doesn't get the concept at all, haha. She will do well then just start flailing jumping and trying to touch all the poles or circle them. She tries, lol. You should have seen when I tried to add guides to the poles.
> 
> Other than that though, they're doing very well on the handling stuff. Mia's obstacle focus is incredible and my new trainer keeps talking about how talented she is.


What is your method? Maybe it's just a method problem?


----------



## Laurelin

trainingjunkie said:


> What is your method? Maybe it's just a method problem?


I'm pretty sure I just suck. We have tried 2x2s, channels, shaping, etc. Shaping is what is working with Mia. Summer really seems to have no flipping idea though. Mia has 6 poles closed at home but at class wants to run around them.


----------



## trainingjunkie

When you are shaping, are you rewarding along the path of travel? Meaning, if you click, do you deliver the treat IN the weaves where the next step ought to occur?

I shaped my weaves with all 3 dogs and it never took more than a week or 2 to get to 12 poles with me on either side and out of the picture. Are you rewarding off of the path?


----------



## Laurelin

trainingjunkie said:


> When you are shaping, are you rewarding along the path of travel? Meaning, if you click, do you deliver the treat IN the weaves where the next step ought to occur?
> 
> I shaped my weaves with all 3 dogs and it never took more than a week or 2 to get to 12 poles with me on either side and out of the picture. Are you rewarding off of the path?


Can you come train my dogs? Please?

I do try to reward in the path of travel, yes. I reward after every pole at first then after a few.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Have you tried using targets at the end on the path? With rewards on them that you can cover if your dog makes an error? You can do this after the first pole or the second until the entry is fluid. I think that a key component is getting the dog's eyes off of their handler and onto the poles and the path. If you are running into trouble, working 2 or 3 poles for a while is critical. Don't be in a hurry to advance until you have worked through the entry. It will only lead to errors and demotivation.

I would absolutely love to see video. Weaves totally fascinate me.


----------



## trainingjunkie

In re-reading, I never reward within the weaves, only at the end. The "end" might be after 2 poles, but then I will have pulled poles 3-10 off of the base. I only treat at the end and along the predicted line of travel. To try to reward a dog who is within the weaves will only distract them.


----------



## Laurelin

One problem I had originally was rewarding from myself instead of in front of them. Then they were weaving but looking back at me all the time. We are using bowls now at the end of the channels now.

I think I have no idea how to use the target at the end of the channel with shaping though. I'll have to video some of it this weekend.


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> One problem I had originally was rewarding from myself instead of in front of them. Then they were weaving but looking back at me all the time. We are using bowls now at the end of the channels now.
> 
> .


This is kind of where me and Lola were about 6 months ago, and we're still there on the left side. I did reward mid-weave and it caused her to look back at me after each weave. But I just slowed it way down and waited her out, she'd stop and stare at me for a treat after each weave and if I waited, she'd figure it out on her own. I saw her glances back get shorter and shorter the more we worked on it, and now on one side she doesn't glance back at all. We're still working on the other side, she gets more frustrated on that side too and barks at me after a couple weaves.


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Yeah, I wouldn't reward when the dog is in the weaves. Otherwise they'll constantly be looking at you expectantly, instead of concentrating on the task at hand. I'd reward at the end of weaves. You could start with just a few polls and reward immediately, then add polls. Channels worked really well for me, but the reward has to be like the best thing ever. Even now I reserve the highest value reward I can find for major successes in agility.


----------



## DJEtzel

kadylady said:


> In Wyoming? I thought about going to that trial but decided to wait a couple weeks and am going to Dexter on the 16th instead. I hear you on the money/time thing, luckily I'm only about an hour from Dexter and they hold a lot of CPE it looks like, so that works great for us getting started.


Yep! Wyoming is just about 45 minutes from me and we train there already. Home field advantage? lol I do want to get over to Dexter soon though- maybe we'll meet up at some point! 



Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> Our session finished yesterday. In the last class, Gypsy tried a full set (12 poles) of straight-up weaves for the first time. No problem! She nailed 'em! We were advanced to Intermediate II for next session. I also signed us up for the Agility "League" that begins in Nov. Basically, the facility holds a mock trial for students every week. We compete - usually CPE games, but sometimes NADAC or AKC, it sounds like - in teams that are made of dog & handlers of varying skill levels. I'm excited! And nervous, since we're among the least experienced pairs joining.
> 
> Agility twice a week will be fun! (And expensive, eek. o.o)
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you, and good luck! You guys look like you're doing great... it really is addicting, which adds in the expense, huh!? haha


----------



## SheltieQuirks

So I'm very new to this, but I decided to take Astro to a puppy agility class, and he did GREAT! 

Since the class was for puppies, there wasn't any jumping or anything involved - really just more of a positive introduction to the equipment - but I was very impressed about how bold he was, and how happy he was to work. He did (to a rudimentary, newbie degree):

-wobble board
-weave poles
-tunnel
-jump bar (on the ground)
-ladder walk through

It was so much fun. His focus was really wonderful, he was engaged the whole time. He especially loved the tunnel and the weave poles. I know he's young and we'll have to put off a lot of it for his development, but I'm really pleased at how much he enjoyed it. After the end of the class, I did some down/stays with him, which he aced, and then we let our pups have some off-leash play together. His playmate/classmate was so cute, looked like some kind of pointer mix. I think we'll both be back as our puppies grow up!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

You guys look awesome, GLM!! I always love watching your videos.


----------



## DJEtzel

SheltieQuirks said:


> So I'm very new to this, but I decided to take Astro to a puppy agility class, and he did GREAT!
> 
> Since the class was for puppies, there wasn't any jumping or anything involved - really just more of a positive introduction to the equipment - but I was very impressed about how bold he was, and how happy he was to work. He did (to a rudimentary, newbie degree):
> 
> -wobble board
> -weave poles
> -tunnel
> -jump bar (on the ground)
> -ladder walk through
> 
> It was so much fun. His focus was really wonderful, he was engaged the whole time. He especially loved the tunnel and the weave poles. I know he's young and we'll have to put off a lot of it for his development, but I'm really pleased at how much he enjoyed it. After the end of the class, I did some down/stays with him, which he aced, and then we let our pups have some off-leash play together. His playmate/classmate was so cute, looked like some kind of pointer mix. I think we'll both be back as our puppies grow up!


Sounds awesome! Good luck!


----------



## So Cavalier

> One problem I had originally was rewarding from myself instead of in front of them. Then they were weaving but looking back at me all the time. We are using bowls now at the end of the channels now.
> 
> I think I have no idea how to use the target at the end of the channel with shaping though. I'll have to video some of it this weekend.


We are using the Rip N Tug lotus ball for training in our classes. http://cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=3098

It works really well for weaves. You can toss it to the end of the weaves. It directs the dog's attention forward and not back towards you. It is also great for sends.


----------



## SheltieQuirks

DJEtzel said:


> Sounds awesome! Good luck!


Thanks!  I'm really glad I decided to go for it. Astro isn't the biggest fan of walks - he really only likes more interactive things - so I think this will be right up his ally.

That said, the trainer said we'd be fine if we wanted to sign up for the longer (6 weeks) Intro to Agility class starting in January, she'd just keep the bars very low for him (they were on the ground during the Puppy Agility class I took him to). I'm still unsure if I want to do that. I don't know if I'm just overly anxious about exercise and his joints or what, but it makes me nervous. He would be 7 months old in January, turning 8 months old over the course of the class. Shouldn't I wait until he's a full year old at least, even if they keep the bars low or on the ground? Or am I just being a worrier?


----------



## DJEtzel

SheltieQuirks said:


> Thanks!  I'm really glad I decided to go for it. Astro isn't the biggest fan of walks - he really only likes more interactive things - so I think this will be right up his ally.
> 
> That said, the trainer said we'd be fine if we wanted to sign up for the longer (6 weeks) Intro to Agility class starting in January, she'd just keep the bars very low for him (they were on the ground during the Puppy Agility class I took him to). I'm still unsure if I want to do that. I don't know if I'm just overly anxious about exercise and his joints or what, but it makes me nervous. He would be 7 months old in January, turning 8 months old over the course of the class. Shouldn't I wait until he's a full year old at least, even if they keep the bars low or on the ground? Or am I just being a worrier?



That's going to be your risk to assess and decide. My breeder was comfortable with having me work on the flat with the standards until Recon was about 3-4 mos, then moving to 4" jumps until about 6 mos, then 8" jumps until about 10 mos, then 12" jumps until a year at which we worked on 16" jumps and we are now transitioning to 20" at 15 mos. She said any jumps below his elbows were fine by her, and I was ok with that too. During our classes, we were only only the floor actually working for maybe 15 minutes total, and a good 5-10 of that was not jumping time. So it was not very frequent, and this was only once a week. We did a ton of focus work, sends, and handling on the flat to get us ready to add in more obstacles. I introduced him to the contact obstacles a few times before he was a year old, but just to get used to them- no running, just a lured walk up and down, and no weaves until a year old, either, unless you're using weave o matics and they're completely open.


----------



## SheltieQuirks

DJEtzel said:


> That's going to be your risk to assess and decide. My breeder was comfortable with having me work on the flat with the standards until Recon was about 3-4 mos, then moving to 4" jumps until about 6 mos, then 8" jumps until about 10 mos, then 12" jumps until a year at which we worked on 16" jumps and we are now transitioning to 20" at 15 mos. She said any jumps below his elbows were fine by her, and I was ok with that too. During our classes, we were only only the floor actually working for maybe 15 minutes total, and a good 5-10 of that was not jumping time. So it was not very frequent, and this was only once a week. We did a ton of focus work, sends, and handling on the flat to get us ready to add in more obstacles. I introduced him to the contact obstacles a few times before he was a year old, but just to get used to them- no running, just a lured walk up and down, and no weaves until a year old, either, unless you're using weave o matics and they're completely open.


Thanks for sharing your experience! I think if I hadn't owned a dog already with arthritis and hip dysplaysia so severe and so early (and it was likely due to bad breeding more than anything else, but still it messes with my thought process), I'd be less paranoid...on the other hand, the instructor herself said she'd keep the jumps very low to accommodate him, and she doesn't seem like the type to push for higher stuff if I wasn't comfortable with it, so that puts me at ease. We'll see, I still have time to think it over and decide whether I want to sign up or not. If I don't do the class in January, I'll definitely hit up the same instructor in the summer - she was very bubbly and seemed to like Astro a lot, and she and I already seem to agree on a lot of training principles, from the bit we discussed.


----------



## kadylady

DJEtzel said:


> Yep! Wyoming is just about 45 minutes from me and we train there already. Home field advantage? lol I do want to get over to Dexter soon though- maybe we'll meet up at some point!


That would be neat! The setup in Dexter is very similar to where I train and I think that definitely helped Zoey at lot for our first time. I really like it over there.


----------



## Sibe

From Nancy Gyes on facebook:
"We have heard lots of different thoughts about what caused so many dogs in the GP Finals of Cynosport World Games to fly off the seesaw. Diane Dubow may have gotten it right, she called it the "perfect visual storm". Red and yellow have almost no color contrast for dogs, the tunnel ahead seems from this perspective to be located under the seesaw which may have caused the dogs to believe it was a DW and it is the same red color. The lack of visible stanchions on the seesaw likely did not help, and the bright light coming through the window above the grandstand may also have played a part. The actual photo of the setup and a filtered photo of how dogs see this picture with their color limited vision."


























Post: "I am thinking the dogs thought it was a DW with a tunnel underneath, or else the horizon line in the grandstand confused them."


----------



## So Cavalier

My trainer always says to first walk a course from the dog's perspective. Guessing some filtered glasses are in order next. We need to watch for glare from their height. Especially with my small girl. What I see is often very different than what she sees.


----------



## DJEtzel

Three first place Qs for my baby dog so far! Two clean, one bar knocked in wildcard. Hoping for a perfect day, but I'm very proud of my little red dog!!


----------



## kadylady

DJEtzel said:


> Three first place Qs for my baby dog so far! Two clean, one bar knocked in wildcard. Hoping for a perfect day, but I'm very proud of my little red dog!!


Congrats!!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Well our "break" may come to a close sooner than I thought - I was able to get a spot for private classes with Kimma starting this week LOL. To be fair, it's an hour that's going to be split between her and Jari (YAY Jari will be in class!!!!!!) and I think we're going to focus only on short course work to up her motivation levels. It's also a new instructor so it will be nice to have a fresh perspective on my handling. I'm not going to attempt to trial Kimma for a few months yet. But she has been freaking out when she's seen me work Jari, so maybe that's a good sign? I'm so excited!!!


----------



## DJEtzel

Well, perfect Saturday! 3 clean first place Qs and one fault in a 4th run- still 1st place Q. I'm wondering if we should have just entered level 2 right away, but at least he had a great time and we had some good runs to motivate us! One of our trainers was there trialing as well as a few friends, so we got a lot of input and had a lot of fun. Here are videos...

Standard- I thought for sure we'd have a problem with contacts. I obviously baby'd them, but it worked! I was really surprised that he didn't hold his start line... he's never broken it before.  The floor was pretty slick and he biffed it too, but we pulled it off for a clean run.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151760105107705&l=5092931468745052655

Wildcard- Didn't go quite as smooth and he dropped a bar, but still first and a Q!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151760275267705&l=6467812043187393622

Colors- Clean first place Q!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151760376937705&l=5603175092269424108

And Snooker- A little iffy as I decided to change my cues for this course and NOT call the tunnels, but we still came in first!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151760748317705&l=1247674949615425757

So proud of my guy for his first trial ever, at only 15 mos old. His breeder was very pleased and his uncle's owner even came to cheer us on. Also got to trial under my favorite Judge ever, Jerry McKenzie. Recon even had the same standard course that Frag did for his first trial.


----------



## mashlee08

Indie and I moved up to the big kids class with all the Masters dogs at agility last night, it was such a step up, more challenging for me then her I think. I need to get my head around the fact that Indie is capable and just work with her rather then keep second guessing her and myself. Also, need to learn to run FAST, not just dawdle anymore. I was exhausted!


----------



## elrohwen

Watson and I are taking our first agility class tonight. So excited! The facility seems to be a good one with a good variety of classes (beginners, advanced beginners, etc up to competition level), good instructors, and recommendations from some people I know. I hope Watson's little brain stays in his head for the first class.


----------



## GrinningDog

We begin the Agility League tonight. There will be 7 teams, 28 dogs and almost as many handlers, all of varying skill levels. It's basically a mock trial. Friendly competition and fun. We're doing Fullhouse this week. I'm... kinda nervous! Gypsy and I are SO NEW at this. 



elrohwen said:


> Watson and I are taking our first agility class tonight. So excited! The facility seems to be a good one with a good variety of classes (beginners, advanced beginners, etc up to competition level), good instructors, and recommendations from some people I know. I hope Watson's little brain stays in his head for the first class.


Oooo, have fun! Tell us how it goes!


----------



## elrohwen

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> We begin the Agility League tonight. There will be 7 teams, 28 dogs and almost as many handlers, all of varying skill levels. It's basically a mock trial. Friendly competition and fun. We're doing Fullhouse this week. I'm... kinda nervous! Gypsy and I are SO NEW at this.


That sounds absolutely awesome! I would love to do something like that. And I think it's so great that you and Gyp are taking to agility like ducks to water. Gypsy has found her calling in life.

I remember when I played polo in college as a new player and they put us on intramural teams with experienced people and it was so much fun. There wasn't any pressure to be awesome, because we had experienced people to carry the team, and they could give us tons of advice and help in real time.


----------



## LoMD13

One huge positive that came out of tonight's class- it was the first time ever Lola worked for a toy. I guess it was all about the toy that I was using. I expect this to really help us out a ton because toys really amp her up in ways that food doesn't. But until today she's only played with toys at home.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Here is Kimma's title run for her AX. 






I actually showed this to my husband and he was like, "That's not our Kimma - why is she running so slow?" He hadn't seen her run since class months and months ago, so hearing him say that was a real eye-opener. I think we are in good hands now, though, as our new private instructor seems awesome. She and I seem to share a lot of training ideals, and even within the first half hour with her, I was noticing a difference in Kimma. It was pretty awesome.

Jari also did great, too! We did some baby contact equipment with running contacts as well as some short sequences with pinwheels and tunnels. I was told that I need to begin working on tunnel sends ASAP because he's, "going to be too fast." She also commented on the fact that he's pretty confident with life - I'm very happy that I got some good advice about socialization and various things to desensitize him to when he was a baby. It's all paying off so much already!


----------



## elrohwen

We had our first ever agility class last night and it went so so well. Watson was the most focused and engaged he's ever been in a class environment, and there was a minimal amount of sniffing and lunging at other dogs (and none when it was time to work). The majority of the class he sat there staring at me like "What are we doing next?!" instead of being distracted by the environment, which is huge for him. The amount of training I've done with him really showed and he was in his element. I felt like there was a lot of communication and trust between us, and he was able to intuit what I wanted a lot of the time, which he's normally not that good at. I was just very proud of him. I've been frustrated with him in obedience class lately, because we've plateaued, but I think trying something completely new in a new environment was really good for him.

I like the facility - it's in an indoor arena (no longer used for horses) with about 2/3 set up with a large course, and 1/3 set up with a few pieces of equipment for classes (even that small area is quite large). The trainer is great, and super upbeat and positive. There were only 3 other dogs, which was perfect - a tiny little lhasa, a black standard poodle, and a 7 month old GSP girl (the only dog with an experienced handler). We did some minor equipment (like getting comfortable with a dog walk ramp set up with one end on a table), send outs around jump standards, recalls, and beginning weaves. They teach weaves with the poles bent out at an angle - I can't remember what that method is called. I'm looking forward to more classes!


----------



## DJEtzel

LoMD13 said:


> One huge positive that came out of tonight's class- it was the first time ever Lola worked for a toy. I guess it was all about the toy that I was using. I expect this to really help us out a ton because toys really amp her up in ways that food doesn't. But until today she's only played with toys at home.


That's awesome! We always throw huge parties in class when dogs finally start playing with toys- it's like the beginning of something fantastic!



elrohwen said:


> We had our first ever agility class last night and it went so so well. Watson was the most focused and engaged he's ever been in a class environment, and there was a minimal amount of sniffing and lunging at other dogs (and none when it was time to work). The majority of the class he sat there staring at me like "What are we doing next?!" instead of being distracted by the environment, which is huge for him. The amount of training I've done with him really showed and he was in his element. I felt like there was a lot of communication and trust between us, and he was able to intuit what I wanted a lot of the time, which he's normally not that good at. I was just very proud of him. I've been frustrated with him in obedience class lately, because we've plateaued, but I think trying something completely new in a new environment was really good for him.
> 
> I like the facility - it's in an indoor arena (no longer used for horses) with about 2/3 set up with a large course, and 1/3 set up with a few pieces of equipment for classes (even that small area is quite large). The trainer is great, and super upbeat and positive. There were only 3 other dogs, which was perfect - a tiny little lhasa, a black standard poodle, and a 7 month old GSP girl (the only dog with an experienced handler). We did some minor equipment (like getting comfortable with a dog walk ramp set up with one end on a table), send outs around jump standards, recalls, and beginning weaves. They teach weaves with the poles bent out at an angle - I can't remember what that method is called. I'm looking forward to more classes!


That sounds great! Glad you had a good time and he was so excited for it- maybe agility will be your calling!

That weave style is called Weave o matics, btw! Frag learned on them great, but some dogs will be great until you get them completely straight, and then will have no idea what's going on (*cough* Recon) and you'll have to go back and marker train them- which worked great for us!


----------



## elrohwen

DJEtzel said:


> That weave style is called Weave o matics, btw! Frag learned on them great, but some dogs will be great until you get them completely straight, and then will have no idea what's going on (*cough* Recon) and you'll have to go back and marker train them- which worked great for us!


Yeah, I know nothing about training weaves (except the names of a few styles) so I'll go with it and see what happens. Watson was pretty funny because he kept popping out and trying to go around, because obviously that was the easier path to get to me and the treat on the target plate. Why would he take the hard way? Haha. It was fun to watch all of the dogs get the hang of it, and a good method because we had 3 dogs under 18 months (one only 7 months) so it could be done without any bending or strain.


----------



## DJEtzel

elrohwen said:


> Yeah, I know nothing about training weaves (except the names of a few styles) so I'll go with it and see what happens. Watson was pretty funny because he kept popping out and trying to go around, because obviously that was the easier path to get to me and the treat on the target plate. Why would he take the hard way? Haha. It was fun to watch all of the dogs get the hang of it, and a good method because we had 3 dogs under 18 months (one only 7 months) so it could be done without any bending or strain.


I loved them for that reason, too. From 3 months when Recon entered agility classes he was able to get used to the weaves with this method since there was no jaring of the body!


----------



## Kathyy

Ginger had her first Foundations of Agility class last night. I thought there would be a lot of barking at other dogs but she was great until she got tired 3/4 of the way through the class and started sniffing. I haven't ever had a dog that has such great attention, guess my cookies have gotten more numerous and better tasting over the years. We did a lot and since I have been good and only worked on obedience basics and playing with her up until now all completely new to her. Sitting at my side, front cross basics, sending, table and walking on a travel plank were started. Today we practiced the ground work stuff. Max was delighted to practice sends and front crosses on the flat and Ginger sure seems to get it when he shows the way. I will get the board and table down tomorrow to practice those as well.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Here is a video of Jari doing some foundation stuff as well as some tricks. He hasn't done too much jump work at this location, so I was pretty happy with him. I love that he seems to really like playing the game so far


----------



## LoMD13

We had a good week in class and a good run at the trial! She was still a bit unsure outside the ring with the crowds and screaming dogs, but this time once she got into the ring she did a REALLY nice job on our jumpers run. Got a nice lead out, running pretty much as fast as she does in class, stayed focused, and had really nice tight wraps. A few people came up to us afterwards and said it was the best she's ever looked in a trial. 

Still going to work on building a consistent routine, and I'm definitely going to try to do run throughs at different venues, but I think we have something to build off of now which is awesome.


----------



## mashlee08

Indie and I are bumping into a few problems now we have moved up to the advanced classes, but the benefits have been huge also. She can run them fine when we first get there, and she does incredibly well for a dog who hasn't even trialled in Novice (first trials in two weeks), however we have 2 maybe 3 courses set up for a night and at the start obviously she works very well, I really need to work on her weaver entry because she has lapsed big time(but I already knew that). I need to get her to work longer, on the last course she was off with the fairies, and it was jumpers, which is her favourite. We only run each course maybe 2 or 3 times. And she only really works for food, she is not toy driven at all. 

Has anyone found anything that you can do to improve concentration span? Or is it a matter of getting used to it again as it's a completely new challenge? 

Or should I work on crating her between runs so she has a chill out time? Normally I stop when I know her brain has had enough, but it is hard for me to learn to run these sorts of courses when I can't run my dog on them. I can watch all I like, but every dog is different so it's a lot more beneficial to try it with Indie.
Any advice would be good


----------



## elrohwen

Mashlee, not an experienced agility person by any means, but my first thought was to definitely let her relax in her crate between runs, and towards the end of class when she's tired, just break out sections of the course that you want to work on. So instead of doing 10 obstacles, do 3 with some tricky handling that you wanted to figure out, then reward heavily and leave the ring. That way you can still practice it, and still increase her ability to focus, but without risking the crash and burn when her brain is fried.


We had our second class last night. When we arrived Watson realized there were cats on the property and his brain promptly fell out his ears. Oh my dog, I've never seen him so jacked up about fuzzy critters before. He was wild. I think the combination of being excited to be there in general just made him loose it with the cats. Impressively he actually focused when I asked, but during down time he randomly lunged to the end of the leash looking for cats. Luckily they didn't show their face inside or he would have been useless. Apparently last week, in the class after mine, two cats literally fell out of the rafters in the middle of the class. LOL Hoping that never happens to us!

I think being high as a kite actually helped his confidence though. We're doing some baby obstacles, like climbing onto a plank and rewarding in the 2o2o position, and he didn't hesitate at all. We were also driving to the teeter, and rewarding for two front feet on it, and he was pulling so hard when I restrained him that I could barely keep him back (and could barely keep him from running right up). Even when the instructor lifted the teeter an inch off the ground, so he would slam it back down, he hesitated for just a second and thought about getting off, then put both of his feet back on again. He was much more confident about that stuff than I was expecting. All of our obedience work has paid off in the foundations/flatwork stuff too.

Funny story. I ran into a guy in the next class with a chessie, and since one of our obedience instructors breeds them, I asked where he got it. When he said he bred it, I was a little thrown because I thought either he's another guy breeding chessies for agility, or he's married to her. So I asked "Oh, do you know Jill So-and-so?" and he said "Oh her? She's such a pain in the ass. ..... She's my wife." Lol I told him to ask her about Watson, since I'm sure she has all sorts of stories to tell about his ridiculousness.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey and I had a really really great class last night. We are currently in a 4 week games class where we are learning some of the different venue games. We did AKC Fast first week, CPE Jackpot 2nd week and last night we did CPE snooker. I'm starting to get more comfortable in these strategy games and not completely freaking out about not having a set course and forgetting about my dog. My goal last night was to connect better with her, as that has been where I am struggling as we are advancing and I am trying to learn/remember my handling skills. We ran 2 courses of snooker and both times were really great. She was eager and focused and I was connecting with her and guiding her clearly. It felt like a really great break through! My instructor for this class also taught my very first intro to obstacles class last September and I haven't had class with her since and she was so impressed with where we are at and was really proud of my handling last night, so that was exciting.

We are trialing on Saturday, CPE, running all 5 classes (Standard, Colors, Jackpot, Jumpers and Snooker). It will be the first time we've run 5 classes in a day, but I'm pretty confident that Zoey will handle it fine. She settles and rests really well in her crate between runs. I'm feeling much more confident in my abilities as a handler for this trial, especially after last night. Hopefully I will have some video to share!

ETA: Glad to hear Watson is enjoying agility elrohwen!


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> We are trialing on Saturday, CPE, running all 5 classes (Standard, Colors, Jackpot, Jumpers and Snooker). It will be the first time we've run 5 classes in a day, but I'm pretty confident that Zoey will handle it fine. She settles and rests really well in her crate between runs. I'm feeling much more confident in my abilities as a handler for this trial, especially after last night. Hopefully I will have some video to share!
> 
> ETA: Glad to hear Watson is enjoying agility elrohwen!



Good luck! I hope you get some video.

I'm glad he's enjoying it too. He's really surprised me with his level of focus and confidence with new things and new footing. Maybe he's actually maturing a bit?


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> Good luck! I hope you get some video.
> 
> I'm glad he's enjoying it too. He's really surprised me with his level of focus and confidence with new things and new footing. Maybe he's actually maturing a bit?


I was feeling the same way with Zoey when we first started. I was really worried that she would just be a crazy mess. And she really shocked me in the exact same way, with her focus and confidence in everything. She's still all wiggly and happy and crazy when we first get to the club, she lets out her little hound dog noises (only time she ever does that btw lol) but when we get into the ring she turns on her little serious face and is ready to go.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> I was feeling the same way with Zoey when we first started. I was really worried that she would just be a crazy mess. And she really shocked me in the exact same way, with her focus and confidence in everything. She's still all wiggly and happy and crazy when we first get to the club, she lets out her little hound dog noises (only time she ever does that btw lol) but when we get into the ring she turns on her little serious face and is ready to go.


That's great! 

I've done a lot of classes with Watson - we've been in at least one pretty much continuously for the past year - and I've been so frustrated with his focus problems in the last couple months. I think he just needed something different and was getting bored with obedience (no matter how much the instructors tried to switch it up). It really helps that there are less dogs in agility (only 3 others) vs obedience, and they can get quite far away from us while we're working. His major struggle is focusing within 10-20 feet of other dogs. But yeah, I feel he went from the wild child in his obedience class, to the most well trained dog in his agility class (though still a wild child, he can focus when it counts and 2 other dogs have similar personalities, so he's not out of place anymore).


----------



## Kathyy

Ginger is amazing, she can focus on me for an hour long class. I didn't think such a dog existed! She only starts sniffing after we have been in class for 50 minutes plus 20 minutes settling down in the new place. Sassy and Max had horrible focus but could at trials, probably Ginger will have trouble at trialing if we get there

Last night was her second foundations class and we had to go off leash! Since she gets offended at the sight of large dogs I was concerned but she was awesome. Did restrained recalls and go to the baited bucket over 4" jumps off leash brilliantly. Was hesitant about the tunnel but on her own was aiming for it as food gets dropped in there. We did a short ladder and she seemed to really get it. That morning I saw her first okay table/down at home and she surprised me by being able to do a table/down in class. At home she has been very skittery about the plank but again, she did it fine in class. We are supposed to train the dogs to sit at either side and she hasn't been very consistent at home and again, did them much better in class. Perhaps she wants to be a teacher's pet? I know all the instructors well and have been trialing, training and working trials along side them for years. Would think me wanting to look good would pressure Ginger into being her worst in class.

The bad. She managed to scream at just about all the dogs in class at one point or another. I really hate training with a leash on so leave a lot of slack and my reaction time was just not there last night. 

I got her to engage with a toy very briefly but it is too early for her yet. She eagerly takes food and was able to potty which isn't easy for some dogs in new places. And she knew where we were going, started to whine a mile away from the site.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I am really looking forward to starting Foundation Agility with Kris, my Dobe. The new classes start in January so I am planning on getting her spayed in December. (She is a year old on the 24th of Dec. and had her first season in Sept.) She weighs 75 lbs. and has maintained that weight the past month so hope she has stopped growing although she will probably fill out a little more. This picture was taken a couple of months ago.http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/Kyllobernese/2013-09-22020.jpg


----------



## JTurner

My dog was absolutely crazy in basic obedience and intermediate - people came up to me and flat out told me that, that always made the situation better 0_o...The trainer even told me to take some time off for him to mature, which I chose not to do because it probably would have made things worst. 

Anyway, we have started fundamental agility and my dog (and I) are in love! He is even top of his class! I don't even need to use the gentle leader anymore! The class is fast paced, and he works best in a fast paced environment because he is being kept busy less time to look around and think about what he can get into to. 

I am so proud of him! I have about a year's worth of classes before I get to competitive level. He is going to be great - super fast and focused! Cannot wait to see where agility takes us! Hopefully to many trials!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly what he needed glad I chose this over Rally.


----------



## kadylady

Extremely successful day at the trial today!! Q'd in 4 out of 5 classes, all 1st place! First run was Jackpot, she had a little bobble and fell off the end of the dog walk but went right back over it a second time no hesitation. She handled really well other than popping out of a tunnel. Second run was Standard, we entered Level 2 but weren't ready for the weaves. She was a little distracted through the course but did fine. No Q because we didn't get the weaves. Third run was Colors, she was extremely distracted and decided to be a little social butterfly and had to greet every single person siting on the side as bar setters, which is totally unlike her considering she is very shy meeting new people. We managed to get through it enough to Q though. Fourth run was Snooker, and we nailed it! Very clean, handled beautifully, so proud! Fifth and final run was Jumpers, also nailed it, clean and awesome! Great, great day! So proud of her and proud of myself too that I was able to work through the distractions and not get flustered on the course.


----------



## kadylady

Post trial posing with the ribbons pic


----------



## mashlee08

Yay go Kadylady!  

Well I put Indie in her crate last night between runs (and I upped the treat value, salami) she managed to get a few clear runs in a masters jumping course and some really really lovely work with some masters agility. She panicked a bit with a tunnel under a dog walk so had to modify the course a bit for my novice dog lol, but I am really happy with how she did. Hopefully she does well in her first trials this weekend  just need to to some last effort weaves training in the hopes she will find the entry and stick in the weaves by the weekend haha.


----------



## CoverTune

Not a great video cuz it's just off my cell phone, but this is what we did at practice last week.






I'm really happy with how she's doing on the teeter.. we built one at home so we could work on it. Her biggest issue with it is simply the hight.

Weaves, however, are the bane of my existence. We're trying to use the 2x2 method and she's just not able to figure out what it is I'm looking for.. and I'm not able to figure out how to teach it to her. We'll do one thing (i.e. use a target plate) for a session and she'll consistently get it, but as soon as I try to change the angle of the entry, or move further away, or do anything.. we're right back to square one.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

CoverTune said:


> Not a great video cuz it's just off my cell phone, but this is what we did at practice last week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really happy with how she's doing on the teeter.. we built one at home so we could work on it. Her biggest issue with it is simply the hight.
> 
> Weaves, however, are the bane of my existence. We're trying to use the 2x2 method and she's just not able to figure out what it is I'm looking for.. and I'm not able to figure out how to teach it to her. We'll do one thing (i.e. use a target plate) for a session and she'll consistently get it, *but as soon as I try to change the angle of the entry, or move further away, or do anything.. we're right back to square one.*


Do you mean that you move the starting point so your dog is running at a different line between the poles, or do you move the poles so they are at an angle but the dog's line is the same?

If it's the first, that would be why your dog is confused. In the early stages, the reward line needs to be clear to the dog. It's always rewarded for running in a straight line, from the same starting point forward along the same line to the reward. So you have to pick up the poles and change them so they are at an increasing angle. You never change where the dog is starting from.

You can start with no poles, and just have her running in a straight line from a starting point to a target, but throw the reward so she gets rewarded while still moving forward, not after she's stopped on the target. Once she understands to run along this line you remove the visible target so she runs the same line with no target. Throw the reward as before. When she gets this, you can introduce 2 poles, so she's now simply running the same line as before, but between the 2 poles. Then move the poles gradually. The dog's starting point and the reward line stays the same.

Then add another 2 poles, same reward line. Once she gets this, you can change her starting point, but the reward line is the same, meaning the reward appears in the same place once she comes out of the poles.


----------



## CoverTune

lil_fuzzy said:


> Do you mean that you move the starting point so your dog is running at a different line between the poles, or do you move the poles so they are at an angle but the dog's line is the same?
> 
> If it's the first, that would be why your dog is confused. In the early stages, the reward line needs to be clear to the dog. It's always rewarded for running in a straight line, from the same starting point forward along the same line to the reward. So you have to pick up the poles and change them so they are at an increasing angle. You never change where the dog is starting from.
> 
> You can start with no poles, and just have her running in a straight line from a starting point to a target, but throw the reward so she gets rewarded while still moving forward, not after she's stopped on the target. Once she understands to run along this line you remove the visible target so she runs the same line with no target. Throw the reward as before. When she gets this, you can introduce 2 poles, so she's now simply running the same line as before, but between the 2 poles. Then move the poles gradually. The dog's starting point and the reward line stays the same.
> 
> Then add another 2 poles, same reward line. Once she gets this, you can change her starting point, but the reward line is the same, meaning the reward appears in the same place once she comes out of the poles.


To be honest, I've done both - moving the poles and moving our starting point - so that's obviously a big mistake. I think I need to study the method some more and make sure I understand what I'm supposed to be doing and be more careful about making sure I'm not rushing things.


----------



## Kathyy

Wow, she looks great!

Thanks, Lil Fuzzy. I don't understand 2x2 at all either. Max is a much better weaver than Sassy ever was but I stink at training weaves. Will refer to your post when the time comes.

Ginger turned on this afternoon when we played agility before dinner. Before she was goody cookies and this is fun but she was SEQUENCING!!! She may have been focusing on the obstacle and I wasn't leading her. Not that that is really a good idea after being introduced to agility 3 weeks ago but how cool. She bounced around and moved where I wanted her to be and listened really well. Was awesome.

I put out a jump without a bar, the trash can for going around, table and the flattened teeter fully intending to do sequences with Max and work individual obstacles with Ginger. She could go over the jump, do a backside jump, I could do a front cross, she went around the can and to the table and I wasn't leading her. She was pawing and making the teeter go all of 3" to the ground but was NOT going on it. Might be worth my while to make up a training plan for the teeter. I probably ought to put the 22" jump cups down to 8" as well. 

Max went before her and she was led into in the xpen. She was screaming that it was her turn after she thought he ought to be finished, I waited her out [continuing to work with Max] and she stopped quite soon. We did 2 sessions and her screaming was half as long the second time. I didn't go to the last show and go at the training field but maybe will try the next one. Learning to sit around while other dogs get to have fun is a huge part of agility training I have found. I could work for a jump height, get her out and play with her, put her away and sit with her just like a real trial. Er, the other way around makes more sense.


----------



## Sibe

This is a good video demo of 2x2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7anJ3egQmyw


----------



## CoverTune

Sibe said:


> This is a good video demo of 2x2s
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7anJ3egQmyw


This actually seems different than the method I looked at, but maybe it just progresses much faster. This is the one I've been watching; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb63MpbdxDA


----------



## Finkie_Mom

CoverTune said:


> This actually seems different than the method I looked at, but maybe it just progresses much faster. This is the one I've been watching; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb63MpbdxDA


The one you're following looks to be more in line with what I did, CoverTune. I followed Susan's DVD of 2x2 method.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

kadylady said:


> Post trial posing with the ribbons pic


AWESOME job and great photo!!!! Congrats


----------



## Peppermint

The weave pole method we use in class has us starting by getting them to move off our side and go between the two poles (always shoulder on the left) but treat in line with the poles to get them to come back and then repeat behavior. It really didn't "click" for my dog until I could get her to do 4 and reward by throwing a toy out ahead (she kind of loses interest in treats). I'm actually not sure what to think of my Pita at the moment. We went to a handling class (instead of a level class) and the instructor had set up 12 weave poles. Instead of telling her that Pita only does 4, I just thought "I'll give it a try, she'll probably stop after 4 and then we can continue" but, even though she has never entered the weaves from another obstacle, she entered perfectly, and completed the weaves. When I told the instructor (a different instructor than my normal one) we'd never done a set of 12 weaves before, or done weaves in a sequence, I'm not sure she believed me, because that was her top praise for the whole sequence. That my dog's weaves were solid, which I find laughable, since they are the main reason I chose to repeat Advanced Beginner rather than move on to Intermediate. Oh well, dogs will surprise us I suppose. 

Wow, so many people trialling! Seems such a far away goal. I'm looking at taking Pita to an open Run Through or competition in late spring. It is hilarious because everyone looks at her and thinks lab, but after a run, most people can guess Border Collie is the other half... she does the BC crouch-run sometimes.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

We had some fun this morning, as we opted to have our private class LOL. It was nice to go to Thanksgiving dinner with two relatively tired pups at home 

Kimma is getting back to her old self, slowly but surely. I'm missing trialing, but I know that this hard work and the waiting will be worth it. I think I'm on to something with how I set her up before her runs, and that can easily transfer to a trial environment. "Think" being the key word LOL.





And Jari. He's just awesome. He may never be the fastest dog, but I have a feeling (and a hope!) that he will be a pretty consistent. As for now, I'm proud of my little guy. Even as he's going through his, "I'm not listening, LA LA LA, I'm a boy and must sniff ALL THE THINGS" stage.





He's also developed teeter-suck. Yeah. We have the teeter super low, and he just like wants to KEEP DOING IT. OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL FOREVER. At least he has no fear?


----------



## lil_fuzzy

CoverTune said:


> This actually seems different than the method I looked at, but maybe it just progresses much faster. This is the one I've been watching; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb63MpbdxDA


Silvia Trkman has recently released a new video/DVD of weave training. I have no idea how she actually teaches it, but everything else I've seen from her has been good, and it's cheaper than Susan Garrett's DVD. Another advantage is that it's downloadable, so you don't have to wait for it. http://www.lolabuland.com/training-videos/weaves/


----------



## Sibe

OH MY GOD SHE FINALLY GOT HER AKC OPEN JWW TITLE!!!!





Finally, finally!! She moved up to Open JWW in Sept. 2011. She got her first Q on June 15th, 2012, her second on July 7th, 2013 over a year later, and her third today!! We were stuck in Open a very long time.. I'm very proud of her!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAAYYY!!! Huge congrats! Lovely run, too


----------



## CoverTune

lil_fuzzy said:


> Silvia Trkman has recently released a new video/DVD of weave training. I have no idea how she actually teaches it, but everything else I've seen from her has been good, and it's cheaper than Susan Garrett's DVD. Another advantage is that it's downloadable, so you don't have to wait for it. http://www.lolabuland.com/training-videos/weaves/


Thanks, I'll check it out! I did some more digging on YouTube too and found a short, but good clip of the very very basics of starting and I think it's something that's going to work for us.. at least to get through this very first bit.

I'm a little jealous of those of you who get to trial year-round.. there's nothing around here until the new year. Not that we can do anything other than Starters Jumpers, but still, lol.


----------



## kadylady

Congratulations Sibe and Denali!! Cute picture!


----------



## CoverTune

It looks like Silvia Trkman uses scissor weaves, which will definitely not work with Corona, and I can't see working with any tiny dog, unfortunately.

I just bit the bullet today and ordered the DVDs from Susan Garrett. I think I'll be much better off going through the whole program and really getting an understanding of it. Maybe I can rent them out in the future to help get my money back  lol


----------



## DJEtzel

Recon's second trial is next weekend!


----------



## mashlee08

Indie had her 2nd trials on the weekend just been, 1 refusal on each course (dog walk, and tyre, yes we have issues) other then that she was great, no dropped bars and no hiccups! Courses were simple and a lot easier then what we do in training, she aced her weavers yuss, and had a fun break up trial at the club last night and she had a clear run and aced them again, coming a long nicely. Very proud of how far she has come, a nervous little wreck at the grounds to a confident young dog who really knows how to drive forward and looks forward to running a course. Now the handler needs a bit of confidence and coordination


----------



## lil_fuzzy

CoverTune said:


> It looks like Silvia Trkman uses scissor weaves, which will definitely not work with Corona, and I can't see working with any tiny dog, unfortunately.
> 
> I just bit the bullet today and ordered the DVDs from Susan Garrett. I think I'll be much better off going through the whole program and really getting an understanding of it. Maybe I can rent them out in the future to help get my money back  lol


Cool  I have the 2x2 DVD and it's very good on how to teach it and also how to challenge the dog once it gets it. I wouldn't expect to do 12 poles in 12 days though 

But one thing that isn't in the DVD which she did with her youngest dog is teaching a reward line like I mentioned previously. She did that first, and then introduced the first two poles so the dog just continues along the same reward line between the poles.

And also, I think it's a bit silly of her to put the pressure on to get it done in 12 days. You're much better off taking a bit longer, and make sure that your dog loves the poles before you try to move on. Your dog should get excited when it sees the poles, and if it doesn't it's too soon to progress. The whole idea of 2x2 is that you can built desire and speed first, when it's easy for the dog. Only when the dog is going fast through 2 poles can you expect them to actually weave fast. I actually got it slightly wrong about the reward line though, Susan only did one session where she introduced the foot target, then added poles with the foot target still in place, and kept it there for a couple of sessions until she had the first two poles at an angle.

I'm surprised that Trkman's DVD wouldn't work for small dogs, as she has small dogs herself. But I don't really know anything about how she does it.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson's classes are going fairly well. He's way overly distracted by other dogs and ran away from me during off leash periods to play with a standard poodle. If we could practice in the ring alone I would be pretty pleased with him. Ultimately, working through his other dog issues will help immensely. It's just frustrating because we've been in obedience classes with other dogs for a year and he's still a spazz who wants to play with everybody, no matter how much I work on ignoring. I think he needs to grow up mentally a bit for some of this to sink in.

Obstacles are going great. He's totally confident and throwing himself at everything we introduce, which is awesome. When he was younger he would occasionally spook at some things, especially if they required any type of rear end awareness, but he seems to be completely over that now. Last night he charged up and over a lowered A-frame on his first try (previously he had just gone up a short way and back down, to practice 2o2o).


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

My last trial in Oregon is this weekend. The weather is looking pretty dicey, so I expect there will be a lot of no-shows. I was supposed to be running an extra dog (an English shepherd) in Novice because her owner isn't able to run her. But due to the weather, I'm not sure if they'll make it. Either way, the trial is going to be a sob-fest for me, because I'll have to say goodbye to people and dogs.


----------



## Kyllobernese

We had already cancelled our drop-in Agility class today and I was sure glad. It went down to -31C (-23F) last night and is only expected to go up to around -18 today. No fun doing Agility in an unheated arena in those temperatures. I expect we will probably cancel next Saturday also as it is the last one for this year and we will not start the new classes till February.


----------



## So Cavalier

> We had already cancelled our drop-in Agility class today and I was sure glad. It went down to -31C (-23F) last night and is only expected to go up to around -18 today. No fun doing Agility in an unheated arena in those temperatures. I expect we will probably cancel next Saturday also as it is the last one for this year and we will not start the new classes till February.


I guess I shouldn't complain about how cold it is here for our classes. With the time change, we are working outside in the dark with lights. It was around 50 F......the grass gets wet. But I am a Southern Californian.....and a wienie! I can't wait for Spring!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Trial went well: 9 Q's out of 11 runs. Weaves looked great, and Kit was oh-so-happy to be playing with me. It was freezing cold (single digits) and bad driving conditions, so there were a lot of no-shows including the English shepherd I was supposed to run. Oh well. We got one good pic and one really derpy pic:

















Class was great tonight. Still very cold and bad driving conditions, so not well attended. At the end of class, we all switched dogs and ran a course. The instructor ran Kit, because they're really tight. He had to put the cheese away so that she would pay attention to him. I ran an unbelievably fast (but novice) border collie. I was joking that I got to take the Ferrari for a spin. We did pretty well, all considered. 

This weekend is a Christmas party, my last opportunity to see a lot of agility folks. More sobbing for me, I think. doG I hate that I have to move!


----------



## mashlee08

Oh those photos are so awesome! 

Indies first clear run in novice jumping last night, and 2nd place to boot. Good girl Indie


----------



## DJEtzel

Four classes entered today and we're both running on 3 hours of sleep. XD


----------



## CoverTune

I received my Susan Garrett 2x2 Weaves DVD yesterday and I think I'm actually feeling even more discouraged about ever being able to get Corona to weave! It just feels like there's 100 things I need to put together all at once, and do it perfectly, in order to train this.

On top of that, my friend sent me a link to a trial in February and keeps telling me to "just go ahead" and enter the Standard classes. We've wanted to trial together since before I even started training Corona, but we've got no weaves and half a teeter and now I'm feeling pressured to have her trial ready in two months, ack!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

This week was my last agility class in Oregon. My friends gave me this, along with a jump bar signed by everybody. I sobbed the whole way home. I'll seek out agility wherever I am, but I know I'll never find a better club.


----------



## CptJack

So... Kylie and I scored a free agility class run. Granted it's for foundations and we did the beginner class after we had to drop out of foundation about half way through, so this is going backward (sort of), but the instructor wanted someone in the class to help out as a demo team and knew we hadn't gotten to finish the class last time. 

We start 1-21. I'm sadly more excited about this than I was the more agility focused things. Go figure.

(Also? If anyone has any favorite agility videos, share them with me? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0DUGQC4e9U This one is currently delighting me. I want more.)


----------



## DJEtzel

Never updated here... we had 2 Qs out of 4 on Sunday. Fullhouse and Jumpers! I only have Fullhouse and Colors right now on youtube..

Fullhouse- dry run from a break in practice for over a month! Third place Q





Colors- beautiful, but a dropped bar.  No Q





I still need to get jumpers video up... we Qd first in that class. 

This was Recon's first trial jumping 20" as well!


----------



## trainingjunkie

CoverTune said:


> I received my Susan Garrett 2x2 Weaves DVD yesterday and I think I'm actually feeling even more discouraged about ever being able to get Corona to weave! It just feels like there's 100 things I need to put together all at once, and do it perfectly, in order to train this.
> 
> On top of that, my friend sent me a link to a trial in February and keeps telling me to "just go ahead" and enter the Standard classes. We've wanted to trial together since before I even started training Corona, but we've got no weaves and half a teeter and now I'm feeling pressured to have her trial ready in two months, ack!


This is just my strenuous but humble opinion: NEVER let anyone pressure you to trial. Never. If you are struggling with weaves and a teeter, just think how much harder they will be when you are both nervous and there all sorts of eyes on both of you. The very real risk is that your poor dog walks away believing that trialing is HORRIBLE. You will spend months/years fixing the fear triggered by a bad experience. 

I recently trialed my dog "too early" but I have competed a lot and I wasn't nervous in the least. If my dog had shown signs of stress, I would have found the quickest path out of the ring and run it with her. As it was, we went 7/8 and got both novice titles and an open leg (AKC) in 2 weekends, but still, she wasn't ready.

Take your time!!! It's the fastest way to success.


----------



## trainingjunkie

GottaLuvMutts said:


> This week was my last agility class in Oregon. My friends gave me this, along with a jump bar signed by everybody. I sobbed the whole way home. I'll seek out agility wherever I am, but I know I'll never find a better club.


That is SO CUTE!!! WOW!!! What great friends. I am sorry you have to leave them behind. Best wishes in finding your new club. I agree, these guys will be a tough act to follow!


----------



## Kathyy

trainingjunkie said:


> This is just my strenuous but humble opinion: NEVER let anyone pressure you to trial. Never. If you are struggling with weaves and a teeter, just think how much harder they will be when you are both nervous and there all sorts of eyes on both of you. The very real risk is that your poor dog walks away believing that trialing is HORRIBLE. You will spend months/years fixing the fear triggered by a bad experience.
> 
> I recently trialed my dog "too early" but I have competed a lot and I wasn't nervous in the least. If my dog had shown signs of stress, I would have found the quickest path out of the ring and run it with her. As it was, we went 7/8 and got both novice titles and an open leg (AKC) in 2 weekends, but still, she wasn't ready.
> 
> Take your time!!! It's the fastest way to success.


I completely agree! However...... if you do NADAC, CPE or USDAA you can choose to enter classes that avoid the problem obstacles. Maybe AKC has one too, I am not familiar with that program. I am not sure there is any way to get over ring nerves other than getting out there and playing with the dog, if you won't have the scary obstacle planned for your course then ring nerves won't be as big an issue. When Max broke his nail and was petrified of teeters we did jumpers and such. When he and I were having the worst time with weaves, avoided standard. I even went down to Performance so he could get titles in I and II when he was running Championship Masters courses so I could continue trialing while we were having trouble. Sure you might not Q if the gamblers course has weaves or teeter in a spot where it must be done to qualify but you don't have to try for it when in the ring if you know it is a bad idea.

Can you go to the trial as a worker and work on good trial manners for your dog? Max was HORRID at first and took years to get really comfortable there. I am planning on working with Ginger from the start long before she could possibly be entered in a trial, going to go to the next Show and Go to work and work on her learning to be calm by herself while fun is being had by other dogs.

Ginger finished her preagility class. She was almost an angel for the last class as there were only 4 dogs present. I did a whole lot of watching her and treating her when her eyes were on me. At the end of the class I took her off leash so we could do tables and jumps properly. We have been doing a tiny bit of training left/right/close/side at the off leash park and she is getting really good at those finally. She had a break through with down stay. If I use my 'anchor eye' on her she can now stay with me walking in a complete circle around her so she might yet turn into a dog subject to the laws of gravity rather than a leaf blowing in the wind. At home we have been working on 'honoring', Max does an obstacle or behavior and she is supposed to sit/down/stay then he stays while she does something and they have been doing it! Sure Max does everything slow but he does bark. 

Now she is getting the contact thing down. Why she gets it when the instructor explains it but not from me and Max I don't know, she is an interesting dog. Will be working on me standing UP when doing sequences, training contacts and tunnels [she hates not being able to see me with those big eyes of hers] and maybe I will get brave enough to work on weaves before we go back to class. Hard to stand up when I am doing a lot of luring still but she really isn't that tiny a dog anyway. Okay, make that get away from luring her so much AND standing up.

Been 13 years since I had a dog starting agility. Forgot so much and so much has changed except that it is just as big a blast to see a new dog turn on to the game as before. The light in her eyes when I tell her to go and she knows what it means and GOES, just awesome.


----------



## Kyllobernese

In AAC in Canada, they have Jumpers classes which are just jumps, tunnel and sometimes the chute. I put Lucy in that class in August just to get her into a trial and give her some ring experience without any pressure to do the contact obstacles. She did great and would have even Q'd if she had not waited on me and made a circle before a jump which was a 5 point penalty so no Q. I also put her in a Snooker class as you can choose your obstacles but did not get too far as she doubled back into a tunnel but had a really good experience.


----------



## Laurelin

GottaLuvMutts said:


> This week was my last agility class in Oregon. My friends gave me this, along with a jump bar signed by everybody. I sobbed the whole way home. I'll seek out agility wherever I am, but I know I'll never find a better club.


That is seriously awesome!


----------



## JazzyTheSiberian

GottaLuvMutts said:


> This week was my last agility class in Oregon. My friends gave me this, along with a jump bar signed by everybody. I sobbed the whole way home. I'll seek out agility wherever I am, but I know I'll never find a better club.


That's so neat, it has got to be one of my favorite picture frames.

Good luck on finding a new agility club.


----------



## littlesoprano

What are some things I could work on with my pup? He's 6 months old but we plan on getting him into agility when he gets older (my vet's really excited about it lol). What kind of obedience style things are good to work on? We have an entire fold-away agility set, and he actually runs through and sleeps in the tunnel (its in our living room haha), but I'd love to know what things I could work on with him at such a young age!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> That's so neat, it has got to be one of my favorite picture frames.


I know, right? I keep packing it, then getting it back out just to stare at it and cry some more. When I got Kit, I just wanted a companion. I couldn't have foreseen how many wonderful people she would bring into my life. I hope she makes me some new friends after the move!


----------



## CptJack

littlesoprano said:


> What are some things I could work on with my pup? He's 6 months old but we plan on getting him into agility when he gets older (my vet's really excited about it lol). What kind of obedience style things are good to work on? We have an entire fold-away agility set, and he actually runs through and sleeps in the tunnel (its in our living room haha), but I'd love to know what things I could work on with him at such a young age!


The first, most important parts of agility are focus, basic obedience, and targeting. (My classes use a cottage cheese lid). Any work with equipment is totally secondary and pretty irrelevant until the dog's somewhere around 2 - at least any work with the equipment beyond basic familiarity. Working on that targeting and just buildling a relationship with your puppy and learning to train and work together is the most important part.

This next bit may come out harshly. I'm sorry, it isn't intended to, I just don't know how to say it otherwise:

You risk developing bad habits that don't work for agility if you let your puppy run the course the way he wants right now, that will make teaching him the proper way of doing things later much, much harder. There's more going on with agility than there seems to be. It isn't just about taking the jumps, climbing the frame, or doing the waves. It's doing those things the right way, in the right order, and with the proper control of the dog. You have to learn to run that course in a specific way, too - cues like which directions your shoulders point, or how you step toward an obstacle MATTER, and your dog has to learn to read those things. 

That's all outside the potential damage to joints by doing weaves or jumps in a puppy whose growth plates haven't shut (and especially that many people I see try to jump too high for their dog; agility jumps are actually pretty low). 

Leave the agility equipment alone until you get into a formal class and do the foundations and ground work. Focus on basic obedience, working in distractions, watch me and the 'put your nose on this plastic thing' for now.


----------



## littlesoprano

CptJack said:


> The first, most important parts of agility are focus, basic obedience, and targeting. (My classes use a cottage cheese lid). Any work with equipment is totally secondary and pretty irrelevant until the dog's somewhere around 2 - at least any work with the equipment beyond basic familiarity. Working on that targeting and just buildling a relationship with your puppy and learning to train and work together is the most important part.
> 
> This next bit may come out harshly. I'm sorry, it isn't intended to, I just don't know how to say it otherwise:
> 
> You risk developing bad habits that don't work for agility if you let your puppy run the course the way he wants right now, that will make teaching him the proper way of doing things later much, much harder. There's more going on with agility than there seems to be. It isn't just about taking the jumps, climbing the frame, or doing the waves. It's doing those things the right way, in the right order, and with the proper control of the dog. You have to learn to run that course in a specific way, too - cues like which directions your shoulders point, or how you step toward an obstacle MATTER, and your dog has to learn to read those things.
> 
> That's all outside the potential damage to joints by doing weaves or jumps in a puppy whose growth plates haven't shut (and especially that many people I see try to jump too high for their dog; agility jumps are actually pretty low).
> 
> Leave the agility equipment alone until you get into a formal class and do the foundations and ground work. Focus on basic obedience, working in distractions, watch me and the 'put your nose on this plastic thing' for now.


I understand, all we have out is the tunnel but it will be put away for a few years. We have been practicing targeting a plastic lid with his paw (we learned the command yesterday actually!), and the nose will be soon to come. Thank you for the advice.


----------



## CptJack

littlesoprano said:


> I understand, all we have out is the tunnel but it will be put away for a few years. We have been practicing targeting a plastic lid with his paw (we learned the command yesterday actually!), and the nose will be soon to come. Thank you for the advice.


Oh, well if it's just a tunnel it probably isn't a bad thing. Being comfortable with it isn't bad, either.

Targeting's awesome fun, actually. I had trouble with Kylie for a while because for a long time my 'touch' was her nose to my hand. Getting her to target to a lid was a pain in the rear, but once she got it she really got into it.


----------



## littlesoprano

CptJack said:


> Oh, well if it's just a tunnel it probably isn't a bad thing. Being comfortable with it isn't bad, either.
> 
> Targeting's awesome fun, actually. I had trouble with Kylie for a while because for a long time my 'touch' was her nose to my hand. Getting her to target to a lid was a pain in the rear, but once she got it she really got into it.


He was having trouble at first but in the middle of teaching it to him he had to go herd the cat and then he came back and magically understood. Today I was throwing it across the room and he'd just run to it tap it with his paw and come back to me. He's having a blast with it!


----------



## petpeeve

CptJack said:


> Leave the agility equipment alone until you get into a formal class and do the foundations and ground work. Focus on basic obedience, working in distractions, watch me and the 'put your nose on this plastic thing' for now.


 I agree, although you probably could stretch things a little to include something like this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC9uDgiIwTA
and / or this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjquFzYNlw

That said, I'm not an agility expert by any means so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. Perhaps someone here (or your future instructor) could advise better, if you're actually interested in incorporating something like those in your early training. Personally, I don't see a problem with it.


----------



## CptJack

petpeeve said:


> I agree, although you probably could stretch things a little to include something like this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC9uDgiIwTA
> and / or this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjquFzYNlw
> 
> That said, I'm not an agility expert by any means so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. Perhaps someone here (or your future instructor) could advise better, if you're actually interested in incorporating something like those in your early training. Personally, I don't see a problem with it.


We do do both of those things in our classes and they're good ideas. I Just zoned/forgot, but yeah. Unsteady surfaces and re-end awareness are pretty danged useful.


----------



## littlesoprano

CptJack said:


> We do do both of those things in our classes and they're good ideas. I Just zoned/forgot, but yeah. Unsteady surfaces and re-end awareness are pretty danged useful.


That does seem like it could help a bit. Cosmo's a bit skiddish, and the tunnel we had out for our aussie (just for fun), and he was pretty terrified of it, but now he sleeps in it and hides all his toys in there. I do like the idea of introducing him to unsteady surfaces since he's skiddish at first.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I had not done any wobble board with Kris but I had been working on her putting her front feet on a big lid from my feed tub. I switched to the wobble board today and she was slamming her feet down and climbing all over it. She gets a little too excited though and will not just stand with her feet on it.


----------



## DJEtzel

littlesoprano said:


> What are some things I could work on with my pup? He's 6 months old but we plan on getting him into agility when he gets older (my vet's really excited about it lol). What kind of obedience style things are good to work on? We have an entire fold-away agility set, and he actually runs through and sleeps in the tunnel (its in our living room haha), but I'd love to know what things I could work on with him at such a young age!


Do a lot of work with him on both sides of you, targeting, sending to targets from a distance, wrapping around poles in the ground, get him going through the tunnel and sending to it, lots of uneven surfaces, work crosses on the flat with target lids, build drive in a toy and try to avoid food once you get going. Have fun!


----------



## Shaina

GottaLuvMutts said:


>


That is beautiful (both the frame and the dog pictured within ). Good luck in your move!


----------



## JTurner

Mac and I just graduated from fundamental agility and for Christmas my family bought me the following eight week courses: pre beginners, beginners, and intermediate agility plus gas to and from. I'm so happy! This is something I've dreamed about pursuing for 12 years now & it's finally happening!


----------



## DJEtzel

JTurner said:


> Mac and I just graduated from fundamental agility and for Christmas my family bought me the following eight week courses: pre beginners, beginners, and intermediate agility plus gas to and from. I'm so happy! This is something I've dreamed about pursuing for 12 years now & it's finally happening!


That's awesome! What a great family!


----------



## GottaLuvMutts

Shaina said:


> That is beautiful (both the frame and the dog pictured within ). Good luck in your move!


Thanks! I can't wait to hang it up in the new place. 
Right now I'm so sad I feel almost physically ill. I'm down to my last couple of days here, and this morning started off with a heartfelt email from the best agility instructor on the planet. Tough day. Even Kit is sick of my crying.


----------



## CptJack

Does anyone have any thoughts relating to doing a foundations class with a deaf dog? Since Kylie and I will be in that class for free, and there's one more slot open, my husband's been considering signing up with Bug. He won't go any further than than maybe the beginning class, and I don't see any reason she wouldn't be able to do everything in the class, but I'm not exactly experienced, here.


----------



## So Cavalier

My friend has a deaf sheltie who is actively competing in agility. The dog has his C-ATCH in CPE and earned several honors at the last NADAC nationals. She has developed her own signals in addition to the general handler movements most us employ. She has some videos on youtube...Here is Alva. http://www.youtube.com/user/DeafSheltieMom


----------



## Kyllobernese

There is a deaf Border Collie that competes in Agility in our area. He does pretty good at it too. Should be fun for the dog and your husband. We finally got my sister's husband going to the foundation Agility class with a dog (not deaf) and he is enjoying it.


----------



## mashlee08

1st place over all heights for Indie in novice jumpers last night, she got some chicken nuggets afterwards  hopefully the video works.


----------



## agility collie mom

Beautiful!!!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Good Run. Where are you that there is green grass? We just had another 6 inches of snow last night and it is still coming down.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> Good Run. Where are you that there is green grass? We just had another 6 inches of snow last night and it is still coming down.


Australian  They have SUMMER.


----------



## mashlee08

Yep, summer here at the mo so it's night trials too  so much fun!


----------



## JTurner

Just curious, but how many months or years of training did it take before you all started to compete in agility? I cannot wait until we can compete, but I don't expect to begin competing until maybe next fall? In theory, I should graduate from advance agility in August-ish & plan on obtaining a membership this spring so I can use the ring/equipment whenever I need too.


----------



## Laurelin

Most the trainers I talked to say 1-2 years of training before competing. We started competing a little over a year after our first classes but are now having issues with Mia so who knows if we'll compete much for a while (or ever). Coming up on two years with my current club this spring.

Trialling is a whole nother ballgame than practice imo.


----------



## DJEtzel

JTurner said:


> Just curious, but how many months or years of training did it take before you all started to compete in agility? I cannot wait until we can compete, but I don't expect to begin competing until maybe next fall? In theory, I should graduate from advance agility in August-ish & plan on obtaining a membership this spring so I can use the ring/equipment whenever I need too.


Frag had been training for about 2 years before he started trailing. Recon just about a year. Your mileage may vary!


----------



## Kathyy

The dogs can learn their half of the game pretty fast but it takes a long time for us two leggers to get it all down. I expect if Ginger learns to be calm around other excited dogs she can be having fun in jumpers, tunnelers and maybe hoopers in 6 months or so as I have been doing agility for a very long time - not particularly well but a long time. It can take just as long to get a dog past the whole being there thing as through learning obstacles and handling cues.

As soon as you can get both of you to other class sites, show and goes, just local parks with a jump and toy. Then take dog to trials first just to watch then to actually set up and work a class height then a class taking lots of time to play/practice legal stuff between leaving the dog crated/penned.

Ginger's progress-
She has graduated from first level and gets to go to a new class and instructor in the new year. She is doing great, very happy about the game. She can do a nice fold down on the table, front crosses and is learning about contacts now. She is doing the ground work for play now instead of cookies so it is all getting into that teeny head of hers. I am seeing good focus over 4-5 obstacle sequences with lots of crosses. My teeter is now off its blocks and moving a couple inches and is just fine by her plus she is able to run the whole board instead of leaping off and around it. I started weave training yesterday and she could run through 6 poles set in a 4' chute but I am going back to entries now. We played around 2 poles this morning and she was quite a blast. Wouldn't go through the poles but I was doing okay at landing the toy where it was supposed to be anyway. 

My problem is she is my little cutie pie and I need to treat her like the serious athlete she can easily become. Her problems are toys don't exist if food is present and what does that word _retrieve_ mean? Oh well, I get loads of exercise playing tug with her back to the start.


----------



## GrinningDog

I forgot to share that Gypsy won her first ribbon!

Our team - consisting of Gyp, a red merle Aussie, a rat terrier mix, and a Boston terrier - came in 1st place out of 7 teams after 6 weeks of friendly Agility League competition.  Gypsy couldn't care less about the ribbon, of course. She just wants MORE AGILITY.

Unfortunately, mom is switching from 3rd shift to 2nd at work. With me working 3 PM - 11 PM, I don't know how we'll do agility. All the classes conflict.  I'm going to talk to the owner and see if there's some option. I really want to continue this with her...


----------



## Shaina

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Thanks! I can't wait to hang it up in the new place.
> Right now I'm so sad I feel almost physically ill. I'm down to my last couple of days here, and this morning started off with a heartfelt email from the best agility instructor on the planet. Tough day. Even Kit is sick of my crying.


*hugs* I'm sorry  When I moved about 3 years ago now (gosh how has it been that long already!?) I was more upset about leaving my club and all my agility friends and the opportunities for some great private instruction than anything else. I got into dog training and competition while living there and it's just really hard to walk away from everyone and everything. 

But if I helps at all, I've found great people on the landing side of the move as well, and great instructors as well. If anything agility is even better here and we have a great time and I feel like we've really come a long way. I don't get to see my old friends nearly enough, but if social media has any perk it's the ability to stay in touch across distances. It's not the same, but it's something


----------



## Finkie_Mom

We had a seminar about OneMind Dogs today. It was really interesting, as well as mentally draining for me AND Kimma LOL. Here's a video of the course work from the seminar - the entire morning was filled with learning some of the new techniques, so we were already really beat. So she's slow, but it's only because she was tired and not because she was stressed (ring stress is something we've been struggling with lately). I'm excited to see how much of this we can work in to our course at trials and in class. All in all a pretty fun day!


----------



## agility collie mom

Nice handling. Saw a Susan Garrette handling video teaching this method. Amazing how agility continues to evolve.


----------



## Blueduck1105

I have learned Holt is scared of the tunnel and ladder! More fears to be continued 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Finkie_Mom

agility collie mom said:


> Nice handling. Saw a Susan Garrette handling video teaching this method. Amazing how agility continues to evolve.


Thanks! It was a really fun day (but totally exhausting). I actually started working Jari a bit earlier this morning with some of it, and he caught on quickly. Some of them (like the tandem turn, lap turn, reverse spin, Japanese turn to name a few) honestly feel natural once you learn them so I figured that I might as well teach the puppy


----------



## mashlee08

It has been too hot for any training for the past 3 weeks, my dogs are so bored and we are going straight into trials this week! Indie is gonna be cray. Gah!


----------



## Sibe

Was supposed to resume classes tonight after over a month off, and my cold that's been going on for two weeks decided to bring along a nonstop headache yesterday. I can't run without my head throbbing. I'm so bummed!!! Hopefully better for next week, doctor tomorrow. Really, 2 weeks of snot is more than enough. I'm so excited to start up classes again, and I'm planning on taking Denali to a couple trials to hang out ringside and not compete to help her relax. The EXC group is much more intense, busy, and freaks her out. Open and Novice were always so quiet around the ring!


----------



## kadylady

We started classes again last week after having close to 2 months off and boy did we miss it. Best part...Zoey is doing her weaves in class!!! YAY! So far I had only been getting them at home with my stick in the ground ones and she would totally forget everything when we tried on the competition weaves in class. So I bought us a set of 6 PVC weaves for Christmas so we could continue practicing inside while it is frozen outside. We have been working on it a lot and she was rocking them last night, I was so excited! I feel like this was a big step moving forward for us because we are almost to the point in the CPE levels were we have to have weaves. And this means we can actually think about an AKC competition this year (which my instructor really wants us to do). Depending on the weather we may go to a CPE trial next weekend. Zoey is so much easier to live with when we are consistently doing agility, especially during the cold weather.


----------



## GrinningDog

Tentative plans to debut in March, CPE Level 1. We got the go-ahead from our instructor and club owner.

Gypsy is still insanely barky and uber gung ho, but her contacts are excellent and she's been holding her stays a lot better. And as ever, she's very focused and confident. Since I work evenings now, we've been renting the facility for an hour a week with another student and an instructor. I feel like we get a lot more practice this way.


----------



## Sibe

First class after two months off, boy we were rusty! Nali was so excited to be there that she did jump, tunnel then bolted off to chase the bunnies. I tried again with the same result so we skipped a turn as I had her run along the back fence to get the crazies out. After that she was very focused.

I wanted to share a funky wrap we did. Everyone was trying the red line, but it didn't feel right and didn't flow well for me to wrap, pull her in to me, then push her out to the second jump. I tried a front cross followed by a rear into the weaves but that was sloppy. On my way home I had a *LIGHTBULB* moment and smacked my head with my palm. Of course, wrap the OTHER way! If I'd sent her around the right (green line) it sets a much better line for the jump and weaves, and I'm in a good position to guide her.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I start Foundation Agility with Kris, my Dobe, on the 8th of Feb. providing there are enough dogs. I am really looking forward to the challenge as she is still so much of a puppy compared to the small dogs I have started in Agility. I joined a group of Obedience people, no instructor, but lots of practices so she is more used to working in the Arena where the Agility is going to be and around a lot of different dogs. She seems to get bored pretty quickly doing Obedience still even with lots of treats so I am hoping the Agility will keep her more interested.

She has been on restricted exercise the past ten days as she was spayed but will be able to make up for that before the Agility starts.


----------



## kadylady

So tonight in class Zoey did a full set of 12 weaves for the first time ever!!! She had never even seen 12 before and the first time we tried it she got 10 before I distracted her in my eagerness to treat her and then the second try she got all 12 perfect! I couldn't believe it, I was really not expecting her to get them so fast but figured we would give it a try since it was in our course. She is constantly surprising me and I am so proud of her!


----------



## Kathyy

Ginger's class was cancelled tonight as the ground was wet and when the ground is wet the parking lot is a mud pit.

She was not a happy camper let me tell you! Bossy thing she is. At class she is doing much better with the other dogs as long as I have a harness rather than a collar on her. Collars really bring out the worst in her. She has been doing off leash stuff really well.

This weekend there is a trial at the field but think I need to wait for a show n go to take her around dogs running courses. A real trial will be too much for both of us. She can watch other dogs run and not go nuts every time already but even going nuts 10% of the time is 10% too much.

We made some progress during the week, worked on contacts, started rear crosses and continued weave training. Just today she seems to have had a break through, doing 4 poles apparently with conviction when before this week she was extremely hesitant. Sliced hot dogs is the trick, she can see them on the grass and I sure can slice thin. We are doing 3-5 1-4 minute training sessions a day before/after meals, when I come home, before/after walks and the like. I figure I know what I am doing at this level and don't need to be working the old muscle memory yet so many very short sessions will be more productive. Hoping she will be confident and even more turned on to the game by the time I need to work harder on my end.

Max is loving this too. He gets to do the same stuff and loves to show his smooth moves. I will just keep his old bones off the teeter as it gets tipped higher is all. I love working with him, same feeling I had when practicing with Sassy when Max was starting out, comfortable and fun where dealing with an unsure baby dog is all jerky and do overs.

kadylady, pretty cool!


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Anyone planning on doing Susan Garrett's online handling class?


----------



## Kyllobernese

Of course, because we are starting the Foundation Agility class on the 8th, our weather has decided to take a nosedive and it went down to -25C (-10F) last night and is not warming up much today. The highest it is forecasting is -8 this afternoon and the same weather for the next little while. I have my last Obedience practice on this Saturday and it is not going to be very pleasant in our unheated arena that is usually colder than outside. At least if it gets too cold, I can go upstairs to their heated room which is small but has rubber mats down so can do some training.

Not fun handling the Agility equipment when it is this cold. Sounds like there will probably be about five dogs in the class, all big dogs so far.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Just found out they are cancelling the Agility classes for now, not enough interest. I think it is probably the weather more than anything as it will be really cold in the arena, usually colder than outside. Oh well, just gives me more time to practice my Obedience as we can do it in a heated room. I have been going and practicing on Wednesdays and Saturdays with a group, no instructor. I went today and will be going again tomorrow.

They are having a practice Agility and Obedience trial on the 22nd and I would like to enter Kris in the Obedience.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Kimma got her first Q in Masters Standard yesterday so we got our first MACH points! YAY! We also got our second Q in Excellent JWW, so hopefully sometime in the next few months we will be in Masters there, too. But I THINK getting some MACH points means we get to go to AKC Invitationals this year!!! (There aren't many Finkies that compete in agility LOL)


----------



## kadylady

Finkie_Mom said:


> Kimma got her first Q in Masters Standard yesterday so we got our first MACH points! YAY! We also got our second Q in Excellent JWW, so hopefully sometime in the next few months we will be in Masters there, too. But I THINK getting some MACH points means we get to go to AKC Invitationals this year!!! (There aren't many Finkies that compete in agility LOL)


Congrats Kimma and Finkie_Mom!!!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

kadylady said:


> Congrats Kimma and Finkie_Mom!!!


Thank you


----------



## CptJack

We're back in classes, finally (weather put us off a bit).

Kylie acted like she'd never seen the instructor before and had some hissy fits for a bit of class, and after that was pretty good. I like the other dogs and owners in this class more - 2 BCs, an ACD, a golden, a labradoodle (who was INSANE), and another little mutt about Kylie's size. Most of the owners have competed with other dogs (except me and labradoodle who is being handled by like a 12 year old kid), all the owners except labradoodle kid are in their 30s-50s, there are very few of us and it's very, very _relaxed_.

In other news, my butt and thighs are on fire. I haven't done that much sprinting since I ran track and field.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

CptJack said:


> We're back in classes, finally (weather put us off a bit).
> 
> Kylie acted like she'd never seen the instructor before and had some hissy fits for a bit of class, and after that was pretty good. I like the other dogs and owners in this class more - 2 BCs, an ACD, a golden, a labradoodle (who was INSANE), and another little mutt about Kylie's size. Most of the owners have competed with other dogs (except me and labradoodle who is being handled by like a 12 year old kid), all the owners except labradoodle kid are in their 30s-50s, there are very few of us and it's very, very _relaxed_.
> 
> In other news, my butt and thighs are on fire. I haven't done that much sprinting since I ran track and field.


Man, I'm so glad I've found an inside place to train. All this bad weather is really messing up peoples' training time! 

I'm sorry you're sore (been there done that!), but we need videos, please!!!!!!!


----------



## CptJack

Finkie_Mom said:


> Man, I'm so glad I've found an inside place to train. All this bad weather is really messing up peoples' training time!
> 
> I'm sorry you're sore (been there done that!), but we need videos, please!!!!!!!


We are inside - sort of. We're in a horse riding arena. Unfortunately with night-time temperatures dropping into the negatives (F) it's just been too cold even indoors, and some of the snow was badly timed enough to make the road down to it pretty rough. 

Videos will happen if I can figure out how to make them  Need to drag in my husband for help!


----------



## Kathyy

No class last week and probably no class this week as it might rain. Boo. Hoping posting this will prove me wrong and there will be class tonight after all. Both dogs were in a snit last week since there wasn't class. 

Ginger got poles! Six of them and she does both sides with entries from 10-2 already. The more poles I added the less she looks at me but I can only do them 4x a session right now or she thinks she is doing something wrong and starts experimenting. And with that she has settled down on her table and rear turns are not causing as much skittering. No such thing as jump weave yet, maybe next week. Will be working entries on the 6 poles and maybe hauling out the other 6 if I cannot stand the suspense later this week.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

CptJack said:


> We are inside - sort of. We're in a horse riding arena. Unfortunately with night-time temperatures dropping into the negatives (F) it's just been too cold even indoors, and some of the snow was badly timed enough to make the road down to it pretty rough.
> 
> Videos will happen if I can figure out how to make them  Need to drag in my husband for help!


The club I used to train with was in a horse barn, too. Definitely better than being totally outdoors, but yeah. Still cold. Actually the place I work/train at now just finished an insulation install so the heaters will be even more efficient. Very exciting. 

Yes, bribe your husband to come. I want to see Kylie run


----------



## GrinningDog

In agility class/practice today, we recreated the A-frame, jump sequence that tripped everyone up at Westminster. 






Is this the first video I've posted of Gyp doing agility?


----------



## CptJack

I think some switch flipped in Kylie's brain tonight. She's always done well with agility but been, I don't know, too serious?

She spent the night being an idiot, but a wiggling, bouncing, barking, tearing up and down the a-frame for no good reason, tail wagging, spazzy idiot who was having the time of her life. I couldn't do a thing with her and to be honest? I don't care. I've never, ever seen her have more fun. *That* is going to be what keeps me in agility, I think.

In other news (that is definitely related) I need to stop 'babysitting' and micromanaging Kylie to the degree that I do.


----------



## kadylady

Nice video with Gypsy! You should definitely post more! And I agree, we need to see a Kylie video!

We had an really awesome night last night. Started a new 4 week class called Competition Readiness. Basically the class is attempting to mock a trial setting and the courses we ran last night were open/excellent level with specific difficult areas based on what people had said they have troubles with (ie backsides, weave entries, tunnel sucking ect.). It was a little intimidating walking the more difficult courses and trying to figure out the best ways to run it but then once we actually did it I was surprised at how we didn't have as much trouble as I was expecting. 

After class one of the instructors who I have been working with on and off since we started our intro class asked if I wanted to hang back and play a little longer with her, so basically got a private class afterwards which was so awesome! Picked her brain a lot and we went over some of the tougher sequences and practiced them different ways so I could get the feel of which handling techniques worked best in each situation. It was eye opening and a lot of clicking was going on in my brain last night. 

We have a busy agility weekend next weekend that I am really looking forward too. Our club is hosting an AKC trial so I will be working that all day Saturday, then Sunday we are going to a CPE trial. My instructor definitely thinks we are ready for AKC Novice so we will probably make that venue debut in the next month or so.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Kimma got her AXJ today!!!!! 

She is the highest titling female Finnish Spitz in agility. The youngest Finnish Spitz to get to the Masters level/got there in the fastest time (from starting to trial until now has been a year and 4 months). Now holds the breed record for the most amount of MACH points in a single run (and already is half way to the current leader in MACH points).

She will be the second Finnish Spitz invited to Invitationals, and the first female, and the youngest. 

Title run





Masters Standard





I'm so proud of her <3


----------



## LoMD13

Oh man Lola and I were extremely bad at agility today lol. Our snooker run was going well, but then she dropped a bar in the opening, so I wasnt sure what to do with that jump in the closing (since it didn't really exist anymore) and we got whistled out. My bad, pup! Then by the time Jumpers came along at the end of the day, she had mentally checked out for the day so that was just a mess. 

But we got to meet Lars, the crazy fast, incredibly sweet Rottie so that was awesome.


----------



## cluelesskat09

I love reading all these updates. I'm starting an agility class next weekend and I'm so excited. My little guy is fearless (which scares the bejeezus out of me, to be honest!) and I'm hoping that carries over to agility. It seems like so much fun and I'm really excited to share the connection with my dog.  Keep the updates and videos coming guys!!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Finkie_Mom! That is so awesome!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

LoMD13 said:


> Oh man Lola and I were extremely bad at agility today lol. Our snooker run was going well, but then she dropped a bar in the opening, so I wasnt sure what to do with that jump in the closing (since it didn't really exist anymore) and we got whistled out. My bad, pup! Then by the time Jumpers came along at the end of the day, she had mentally checked out for the day so that was just a mess.
> 
> But we got to meet Lars, the crazy fast, incredibly sweet Rottie so that was awesome.


JEALOUS. I want to meet Lars!

...And I want to steal Lo........ 



kadylady said:


> Congrats Finkie_Mom! That is so awesome!


Thank you so much! I'm really excited about it 

Now begins the MACH chase LOL.


----------



## MrsBoats

Congrats to Kimma!!! Good luck for the hunt for the MACH. 

Yes...Lars and Lola got to meet and hang out. Lars adored Lola...and I think once she got over how big he was, she thought he was really cool too.  I am kicking myself that didn't take photos of the two pups. Lars loves the littles...and Lola was smaller than all of Lars' head. It was precious beyond words. 

Anyway...we had some very nice almosts yesterday and Saturday. I didn't realize until today that the contact area in USDAA is smaller than what it is in AKC. What works well for Lars as a running dog walk contact in AKC and NADAC...didn't work well for USDAA. He kept striding over the yellow...and we blew a perfect P1 Standard run because of it. Oh well. Here are the videos of his runs from this weekend. 

The near perfect standard run...






P1 Gamblers from yesterday...turned to check in with him on the a-frame. My shoulders were pointed at the off course side of the tunnel in the closing. He read that and went out of his way to get that off course tunnel end. The right end was way easier than what he thought he needed to do. 






The standard course time was 36 seconds...we ran it in 17.something seconds. Two bars down...one because I decelerated too much going into a pinwheel and one because Lars couldn't get the lift needed to get himself over the jump coming out of a tunnel that close....one of those big, fast dog problems. 






Standard from Saturday...strided over the dog walk contact again. Tried opposite arm to catch his head...he read my shoulders and flicked off to wrong course tunnel. Oh well...


----------



## Tashapaws

While I'm a little late, congratulations to Finkie_Mom 
And MrBoats, Lars is impressive. 

At last I can post here. I'm just back from my firs agility class. While Natasha was a little uneasy, she did very well overall. We have the classes on the dog park where we usually bring Natasha, so she found it strange to be on-leash and not being able to play all the time with the other dogs. But I believe she will some day concentrate :3
Also, our teacher has pointed out that she's stopping after every obstacle to get a treat. So no treating regularly, so she can get speed. 
(Yes, we ran a very simple obstacle course as Natasha knew some of the obstacles from out obedience class)


----------



## SDRRanger

Got the call today - Agility starts this Sunday at 10am  So excited the class has opened up and can't wait to get started.


----------



## CptJack

I have come to the conclusion that I belong in the camp of owners who believe their dogs would be ten thousand percent better if they were being handled by someone who knows what the heck they are doing. Kylie's got this. Me? Ahahaha- OH god, no.


----------



## Laurelin

My trainer commented on Monday that my handling is getting a lot better and more thoughtful vs me flailing. 

That's good, right?


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> I have come to the conclusion that I belong in the camp of owners who believe their dogs would be ten thousand percent better if they were being handled by someone who knows what the heck they are doing. Kylie's got this. Me? Ahahaha- OH god, no.


Ranger always makes me look a thousand times better than I actually am...I always think how far he'd be if someone who knew something had him lol



Laurelin said:


> My trainer commented on Monday that my handling is getting a lot better and more thoughtful vs me flailing.
> 
> That's good, right?


The less like a seizure the better? lol


----------



## Laurelin

Summer is that dog for me. She routinely saves my butt on the course.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie knows what she's doing, for reasons I can't determine. She really does - she's also confusingly fearless with this stuff. 

Me? You want me to flip the dog out away from me, while I pivot toward the dog and do WHAT with which leg and hand?


----------



## LoMD13

Well that must be nice! 

Lola's completely hit or miss. It's hard to get my timing with her down because she's either a tiny little speed demon or "Lah dee dah, oh hello there ring crew!" 

We've started doing blind crosses a lot lately and those are coming along REALLY nice. Much, much nicer than rear crosses which we still struggle with.


----------



## Laurelin

I like blind crosses but I always feel like I'm doing them late when I'm really on time.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> I like blind crosses but I always feel like I'm doing them late when I'm really on time.


We have been doing more blind crosses lately and I am always really nervous about them leading up to them and then I do it and I'm like wow that actually worked really well! Probably a confidence thing since they are newer to us, I'm always worried about getting there in time for it to work.


----------



## GrinningDog

Gyp and I aren't doing Agility League this session, due to my work schedule. But I was off today, so we subbed for an absent team in CPE Jackpot. It was fun! There was a 24 Weave Challenge at the end of League. Gyp has never done more than 12 weaves, but we gave it a go and WON, ahaha. *5.86 seconds* for 24 weaves! My girl sure does love her weave poles.


----------



## kadylady

We had a really great weekend full of agility. Saturday I was helping at my club's AKC trial all day. Did a lot of ring crew work so was able to watch and learn all day. Spent a lot of time talking and analyzing with my favorite instructor which was great. I love picking her brain and always learn so much talking with her.

Went to a CPE trial today with Zoey. We had 3 pretty good runs, 2 that could have been better. The biggest area that we need to improve in is ring focus. She will do really great sometimes and then other times its like I'm begging her to pay attention. I think it is just a combination of stress and lack of experience that will hopefully get better with more trial experience. On a good note, she got her weaves every time, didn't struggle with entries at all! She also had no hesitation in any of her tunnels. In the past she has had some tunnel avoidance issues but none whatsoever today. We ended up with Q's in 4 out of 5 classes. Very happy with her. We have another CPE trial planned for March and then our first AKC trial in April.

Here's our Standard run (level 2). Was very happy with this one, best of the day. 





Here's our Jumpers run (level 2). Pretty happy with this one too, this was last of the day and she was pretty tired.


----------



## SDRRanger

Today was our first class in our course and I couldn't have been happier with Ranger. He worked off leash without trying to visit, followed me over/around some obstacles, and held all of his stays! 

Our new instructor is quick to praise, but also quick to let you know exactly what you can be doing to make your commands easier for your dog to understand which is how I like to be trained (same as when I was with horses). I'm looking forward to next week already!


----------



## GrinningDog

Good runs, Zoey! I loved watching the videos, kadylady.  4/5 Qs is great!



> Today was our first class in our course and I couldn't have been happier with Ranger. He worked off leash without trying to visit, followed me over/around some obstacles, and held all of his stays!


Yay, Ranger!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our Fun Trial on Saturday and luckily the weather co-operated and it was not too cold. Did a couple of run-throughs with Remmy. There were a lot of dogs for the Obedience but only four dogs for the Agility. Went down to -25C (-10F) on Saturday night and has stayed around there ever since so not going to be doing any Agility classes for a while yet.


----------



## Tashapaws

Just back from our second agility class. Natasha was a little distracted at first, but better than last week... until I took out the new treats. We've ran two courses of leash. It feels as great as I thought it would, running with her next to me and guiding her through the obstacles. It was a reaaly easy course... but I'm proud of ourselves


----------



## Sibe

We're out. Done for at least several weeks, if not longer. Denali's pads have had chronic peeling issues but this is the worst one yet. I spoke to her breeder, and also asked a mushing group since they tend to be paw-savvy and breed-savvy and the consensus was it could be a zinc deficiency issue, common for the breed. I've ordered Zinpro. The last time she had a bad peel it took about a month for it to look ok again, and this one is worse.









This happened last week Tuesday so we missed that class, as well as the class a couple days ago. I think I'll go by myself for the remainder of the sessions though as it would be beneficial for me to walk courses and such.

ETA: I also normally do keep the fur around her pads trimmed, about even with her pads. It grows fast! When it's long like in the pic, her traction is not so good on the grass at class/trials.


----------



## UpShift

OUCH! I hope the zinc helps.
So, I have a question for all you agility folk. When did you decide your pup was ready for classes? I'm looking to do something more than walks with our pups and one I know is not ready but the other is very good with her basic commands and tends to not get distracted. We are working on our heel command but it's not great. She can also get really amped up and basically just go berserk and I'm having no luck finding a way to bring her back from the edge, so to speak. The classes I'm looking at would be starting in April and they start with a very basic introduction class. I feel like the classes would help her and am not expecting perfection at first but I know some places really stress having a good heel command to start with. Thoughts?


----------



## Sibe

I started Denali at about 8 months old in the basic class. Learning some specific handling moves, the obstacles, body awareness. It was a great class. We kept taking classes but she was "jumping" only 8-12" until she was over a year old, and then we typically did 16 in class and not the full 20" until close to her first trial. Tried to take it easy on the weaves, and the teeter but she had issues with the teeter so we did that more than I would have liked I think. A-frame was always low when she was that young too. She was pretty much done growing at 9 months, she hit 40lbs and since then has held that weight and grown only 1/2" at the withers.


----------



## Kyllobernese

The only Foundation Agility Classes we have around here won't let you attend till the dogs are a year old. The smaller breed dogs she will allow them at 10 months. Even at a year, the jumps and all the other equipment is low and the weaves are taught with the "channel method" so they are not even really weaving for quite some time.

They are planning on starting a Foundation Agility Class on the 22nd of March and I was going to put Kris in them (she was a year old in December) but have re-considered and think I will wait till Fall to give her more time to "grow up". I am having fun with Obedience and will try Rally with her.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> The only Foundation Agility Classes we have around here won't let you attend till the dogs are a year old. The smaller breed dogs she will allow them at 10 months. Even at a year, the jumps and all the other equipment is low and the weaves are taught with the "channel method" so they are not even really weaving for quite some time.
> 
> They are planning on starting a Foundation Agility Class on the 22nd of March and I was going to put Kris in them (she was a year old in December) but have re-considered and think I will wait till Fall to give her more time to "grow up". I am having fun with Obedience and will try Rally with her.


Our foundation classes start at 6 months and there's a 9 month old golden in Kylie's class. It's jumping - but at Kylie heights. I'm kinda torn. It's basically something the dog can walk over, and we run on polymer clay equestrian sand, but. I don't know. Not my dog, not my call. Kylie started at about 8 months and is small. This dog, not so much.

That said, I'm probably going to do the next offered foundations class with Thud. I'm finally seeing enough brain from him to think he might get something more than WHEE YAY out of the class. I have no intention of going further with him until we do hip and elbow xrays next fall though. I just think the handling classes, regardless of agility would be good for him. Come to that, I'm starting to think foundations classes are good for just about EVERY dog.


----------



## SDRRanger

Sibe said:


>


Dang, sorry to hear about the injury. Do you know what she was doing when it happened? I've been lucky that Ranger's pads seem VERY strong and we haven't had an issue (knock on wood). Does she notice it and protects it, or is she more of the "what do you mean my leg is hanging off" personality.


----------



## MrsBoats

Agility foundation is more than doing just jumps and obstacles...there is so much handling and working jump bumps that puppies can do. Agility training can start at ages of under 6 months and have it all be flat work or jump bumps. Most foundation classes focus solely on equipment skills and very little goes into developing good handling skills and flatwork....they essential stuff that no one really talks about. 

For those of you guys who have youngsters that you want to do agility with but can't get into a class because of age (I had both O and Lars in foundation classes at 6 months and we jumped 4 - 6" jumps,) here are some great DVD's that focus on puppy skills. 

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2625&ParentCat=215

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2083&ParentCat=215

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?f...product_id=1213&ParentCat=407&string=flatwork

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?f...ay&product_id=1729&ParentCat=501&string=puppy

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?f...ay&product_id=1029&ParentCat=397&string=puppy

There is so, so much you can and need to teach a young dog about agility that doesn't involve equipment.


----------



## CptJack

MrsBoats said:


> Agility foundation is more than doing just jumps and obstacles...there is so much handling and working jump bumps that puppies can do. Agility training can start at ages of under 6 months and have it all be flat work or jump bumps. Most foundation classes focus solely on equipment skills and very little goes into developing good handling skills and flatwork....they essential stuff that no one really talks about.


I will say, hands down, the foundations class I did with Kylie/will do with THud/this trainer teaches IS handling and flat work. There's very little obstacle introduction. There's luring the dog onto the a-frame from the side and bringing it down toward the target to reward two on-two off, there's some going through a (Shortened) tunnel, and the next to last class does a little bit of jumping. The other classes are targeting, crosses (front and back), teaching the dog to "GO OUT!" from both sides, distracted recall and recalling to specific sides based on handler body language. Oh, and watch me and fast downs.

This? This is why I think it's a pretty good foundation for any dog and why I'd do it with Thud. I have ZERO desire to do agility with him as a real thing, but those handling skills are enormous.

It really is 95% off leash handling skills.


----------



## SDRRanger

Ranger's first agility class had a couple youngsters in it, but they only went over something like 4" and it was more getting them comfortable with new equipment and working with other dogs in the classroom. 

The one I am in now (beginner agility, but at a new place) has an 8 or 9 month old as our youngest. This class is much more geared to competition training so I don't think we'll even be going over any height for possibly the whole thing, but more working on the foundations we'll need later.


----------



## elrohwen

I didn't start Watson in a foundations agility class until he was just over a year (15 months I think). We spent our time before that working on obedience foundation type stuff and I'm pleased with my decision. Agility requires so much off leash work and between 9 and 15 months I don't think he would have been successful and we would have been frustrated. Even at 15 months it took a while to get him to focus enough to stop running around the ring like a nut. The youngest dog in our class is 10 months and she's been doing agility for a while - all foundations stuff and low jumps.

I do think it's important to start some sort of foundations with a young dog though, and no age is too early. Not necessarily agility, but a well run obedience class can give you a lot of foundations in communicating with your dog and teaching basic skills. If you want to work on those foundations in an agility specific way, that's great too. Having good communication and training skills on the flat is more important than doing obstacles.


----------



## Peppermint

So I'm getting to the point where I'm considerig taking my girl to agility run-throughs. We've been doing agility for almost a year, and she has all her obstacles (though we have to retrain the A-frame with a stop due to recent leaping). The problem I've been running into most is Pita is a VERY fast dog, and I am a VERY green handler. Some days, we do great and get awesome clean runs. Other days I get lost and my dog makes up her own course. 

Some days I just want to give up or go back to a foundations class, since most of the people in our current class are competing, and I have never even done a timed run through.


----------



## SDRRanger

Peppermint said:


> So I'm getting to the point where I'm considerig taking my girl to agility run-throughs. We've been doing agility for almost a year, and she has all her obstacles (though we have to retrain the A-frame with a stop due to recent leaping). The problem I've been running into most is Pita is a VERY fast dog, and I am a VERY green handler. Some days, we do great and get awesome clean runs. Other days I get lost and my dog makes up her own course.
> 
> Some days I just want to give up or go back to a foundations class, since most of the people in our current class are competing, and I have never even done a timed run through.



I worry about Ranger being too fast for me once we start actually running. I have a gimpy back and he is super fast. Don't give up though if you're having fun. Dog sports (like horse sports) are more about working on personal goals than competing against others....at least that's what I've found.


----------



## elrohwen

There is a pup in my class who is too fast for her handlers. She's just balls to the wall and they are doing great but are novices. It's harder for them sometimes, but they have a blast. I would just stick with it if you're having fun and not worry too much about what level everyone else is at. And going back to foundations is always a good idea! Sometimes you can only get so far going to the same classes and doing the same stuff if you never break down where you're having issues. Doing foundations work will help you figure out where your communication is breaking down and focus on fixing them.


----------



## GrinningDog

Pita sounds like Gypsy. We have ON runs and very, very OFF runs, really depending on whether my handling is decent or not. Gypsy typically does everything without issue, but she does it fast and with enormous gusto, which is overwhelming for a green handler. If I'm not clear with my body lingo or verbals, she's all over the place. I don't have a lot of room to correct my mistakes. If I hesitate or try to correct myself, Gypsy has already read me as was and moved on.

For example, a bad run, haha:






This was our second agility run EVER outside of our home facility. Our first run was, believe it or not, almost perfect. This one was a mess. It was a Colors run, where I drew my color right before running the dog, and I was trying to figure out the course as we went. So I was hesitant, and that affected the run. I can't hesitate with my dog. And for some reason Gypsy took out a panel jump? I'm just thrilled she hit her contacts! (We've been working on them.)


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have done a lot of the basic training with Kris from the time she was old enough, like the wobble board, 2o2o, tunnels, table, etc. and the Foundation class is a lot of handling skills, not just the equipment. I may still change my mind about the classes but until the weather gets better and does not keep going down to -25 and the snow goes so we can practice on our own equipment at home, it is hard to just go to Agility classes once a week for 6 weeks in an unheated arena. I go to Obedience practices right now three or four times a week so she is getting lots of work and I can do the Obedience where it is warm!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY! We're going to Florida this year


----------



## Tashapaws

Finkie_Mom said:


> YAY! We're going to Florida this year


Yay, congratulations!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Finkie_Mom and Kimma!! That's awesome!!! 

So Zoey had zoomies in class last night for the first time ever. We worked some jumpers courses last night with some tricky sequences and traps. The first run she just ran and jumped and ran and jumped, surprisingly we got a couple of the tricky spots even with her zoomies. I couldn't stop laughing though. I'm actually kind of happy that she did that because at the trial this past weekend I just kept thinking that I wish she would get distracted and unfocused in class so I could work on it there, and she was happy to oblige. It was kind of nice to see her so crazy happy though because she is usually very serious when we work. So first run was a zoomie bust, second run a little better, third run was PERFECT! She handled beautifully and I nailed a couple front crosses in some tough spots and a fast pace. Wish we had videoed that run. We've got a 2 day CPE trial in 3 weeks and our first AKC trial in 6 weeks.

Also, I just got a membership for BowWowFlix so any favorite agility DVD recommendations? I've already got a good list going, including some Linda Mecklenburg stuff and some 2o2o contact training stuff.


----------



## elrohwen

Congrats Finkie_Mom!! That's awesome!



kadylady said:


> Also, I just got a membership for BowWowFlix so any favorite agility DVD recommendations? I've already got a good list going, including some Linda Mecklenburg stuff and some 2o2o contact training stuff.


This is a good question. I have Bowwowflix but I haven't rented any agility videos yet.


----------



## MrsBoats

Congratulations Finkie's Mom!!!!!


----------



## JTurner

I am so incredibly proud of Mac! I wish someone could have video recorded last night!
We just graduated from prebeginners which is basically taking one piece of equipment at a time and building it up and everything is on leash.
Last night was our first night in beginners agility, and the trainers wanted to see where our dogs stand so that they know where we need help. They set up a simple course with 7 obstacles and us the owners walked through it pretending our dogs were with us. After that, they took us in the ring one at a time. I was first up! [No pressure ] She asks me to take his leash off, which surprised me, so I nervously took it off thinking he was going to bolt towards the other dogs and people, but he didn't. I line him up at the first jump and gave him his release command and he took off like a bullet! He jumped the first jump, sprinted through the open tunnel, jumped again, sprinted over the teeter touched his target I released him, jumped a jump again, ran onto the a-frame stopped to touch his target, and jumped over another jump! I couldn't believe how well he did! I'm a pretty meek person, but I coudln't help myself but freak out and start doing a weird dance at the end haha at least my dog seemed to enjoy it he was jumping all over me. I think this is the start of a good thing! The trainers seemed pretty surprised as well!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Thank you so much! I'm really pumped. That news made up for Jari's ugly private lesson yesterday that consisted of him just blowing me off a few times. Ugh. Adolescent boys


----------



## elrohwen

Finkie_Mom said:


> Thank you so much! I'm really pumped. That news made up for Jari's ugly private lesson yesterday that consisted of him just blowing me off a few times. Ugh. Adolescent boys


Haha. I know how that goes. I feel like I'm an expert in adolescent boy shenanigans now. They can drive you to drink.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

elrohwen said:


> Haha. I know how that goes. I feel like I'm an expert in adolescent boy shenanigans now. They can drive you to drink.


Hahaha yes, I know that you are well-versed in that whole world 

He did really well during training today (at the same facility) so all hope is not lost! Though I would much rather deal with an adolescent male than an adolescent female of my breed - Kimma was quite the trip when she was going through that LOL. At least at the end of the day Jari still likes to snuggle with me and be pet hahaha.


----------



## elrohwen

Yes! One snuggle session and I forget how much I wanted to strangle him. Glad Jari did better today!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

elrohwen said:


> Yes! One snuggle session and I forget how much I wanted to strangle him.


Hahaha pretty much!!!

Jeez, Kimma would pay as little attention to me at home as she did at class most days. Until it was food time LOL. I guess she's still kind of that way..... But she runs full courses first now


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Well, I think I'm going to start some (puppy/intro) agility classes this spring/summer with Kairi. I'm getting anxiety just thinking about the failures that will come from my poor handling skills, and coordination for that matter. I've always dreamed of being a competitor in agility, and I will achieve that goal someday! I love watching all of these videos and seeing your agility stories.


----------



## SDRRanger

Today was class number two and I can't stop smiling. He did what I asked and he noticed the cavaletti on a few of the passes. We had a little trouble with keeping him on the right, but it's completely my fault for not practicing it...I always have him on the left. We have to work on him not curling his front leg under himself when he lays down. Best part was he kept focused on me while the other dogs were working on the tunnel and stayed close off leash.


----------



## JTurner

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Well, I think I'm going to start some (puppy/intro) agility classes this spring/summer with Kairi. I'm getting anxiety just thinking about the failures that will come from my poor handling skills, and coordination for that matter. I've always dreamed of being a competitor in agility, and I will achieve that goal someday! I love watching all of these videos and seeing your agility stories.


I am in the same boat as you except I began agility only a couple of months ago! I am not very coordinated nor do I work well in fast paced environments, but I have always dreamed of competing in agility. Everybody is so supportive & I have def caught the agility bug early on!


----------



## So Cavalier

So this is how our last weekend's agility trial went.


We were actually able to complete all the classes. There were a lot of no-shows...(the smart people stayed home and dry...:wink

Luckily the thunderstorms and high winds that were predicted never did show up. Gemma did not like running in the soupy, soggy, wet grass but we did Q in 6 out of 10 classes with an awesome 1st place Jackpot run which included a send to the weave poles that she executed perfectly! We also got a super important Standard Q. She only needs Standards now to get her C-ATCH 2. We are also really close to getting her Champion Jackpot title. 

Becky Dean was our judge. She was great! I have to say she ranks as one of my favorites.

I can't complain about the rain. We are in drought conditions and we need it desperately. The drive home was down right scary as the rain was coming down so hard my poor windshield wipers had a hard time keeping up. All of my stuff is super wet and I will have to dry things out before packing them up for the next time.


----------



## CptJack

I am also with the 'what is coordination, and which left did you mean?' group of humans.

That said, we have two more classes at this level. The one on Sunday is a make-up class that is being (*gasp*) held outside. There will only be about 1/3 of the class there, as it's a make-up session for people who had to miss a class due to whatever reason. We all missed DIFFERENT classes (I think this is mostly to make sure we all get our money's worth) so I have no idea what it's going to actually be, but I'm looking forward to it. The last class with all of us together is a distance handling competition - sending the dogs, directing them around things, etc at increasingly greater distances. Whoever can do it from the furthest away wins. Spoiler: It won't be us. Getting Kylie to stop waiting on me every time she's more than about 4-6 feet ahead of me has been our biggest actual challenge.

Then there's a two week break and 4-1 the class with ALL THE EQUIPMENT, sequencing and getting up to regulation heights starts. I can not WAIT for this one. Kylie gets this weird sort of GLEE with the equipment she's been introduced to so far that I can not wait to see her that happy. I mean the happier she gets the harder she is to do anything with, but it's so freaking awesome to see her light up like that.

Oh, also: The instructor is the same one we started with, but I've been so much happier. I know I didn't get to finish the first class I did with her, but I feel like having a smaller group AND longer sessions means there's a lot more ground being covered WELL. The dogs and people IN the class has been helpful, too. There are only a few of us, we're mostly older and so are the dogs. I mean we've got the one jerk gold-doodle being handled by a kid that makes the entire thing more stressful than it needs to be due to sheer lack of control (a 50lb kid and a hyper 70lb dog is a BAD MATCH OKAY?), and one of the BCs is a nervous wreck, but everybody is having fun happy. It's... very low chaos, I guess is my point.

**ETA** and if that golden-doodle shows up for the next level and is still being handled by a child who can't control her, while his father sits on his behind and watches her drag the kid around and snickers about her being a good distraction and/or yelling at the dog and kid from the sidelines, there are going to be words. Polite ones, possibly with the instructor. If he continues to try to touch Kylie while the line moves past his chair there are going to be less polite ones and directly with him. I don't dislike the dog or the kid, but I DO dislike sideline coaching Dad, with a PASSION and the kid is not capable of physically controlling that dog.


----------



## CptJack

Book written and rant had, how about a fun one:

What are the breed/age make-ups of your current agility class? (If you don't know ages, just skip)

We have :

A 9 month old golden.
An 8 year old golden
A year old goldendoodle
The ones I'm not sure of the ages of:
And 3 BCS (two black and white, one blue merle)
An ACD
Kylie
And a Pug/chihuahua mix who's turned up for 3 whole classes.


----------



## kadylady

Not sure of the ages of the dogs in my current class but I know what levels most are competing at. It's a class for those who are competing already so no real young dogs.

A pair of gorgeous flat coat retrievers, one just got his MACH and one is just starting excellent they are both young though under 4 for sure.
A pair of Belgian Tervs, one young who just started in novice one in excellent.
A little mutt who is novice.
Another mutt who is mid level CPE and ukc, she's older I wanna say 8 ish.
My friends Aussie who is 3 and novice.
Zoey who is 2.5 and novice.
Another mutt who I don't know much about.


----------



## elrohwen

We're in between sessions, so the dogs in my class last Thursday might not show up for the one next Thursday. I'm staying at the same level (advanced beginner) as are some others, but a few will move on to intermediate. At least I really hope so! Our class is way too big, and one dog in particular is just not safe.

For most I don't know age, but I think 2-5 years probably.
10 month old black lab/beagle female (my best guess on breed)
3-legged beagle female
golden retriever female
golden retriever male
bouvier male
2 year old lhasa apso female
terrier male (not sure if he's a large yorkie, or one of the similar breeds like a silky, or a mutt)
Watson


The bouvier is just out of control, and his owner can barely keep a grip on the leash. He's also somewhat DA and has tried to start things with Watson and other dogs. He kind of scares the pants off of me, because he's huge, she has no control over him, and I can't read his body language at all (furry dog with no tail or ears, and I can't see his face). I really hope he's moving on to intermediate.


----------



## GrinningDog

I switched from working nights to working 3 - 11 PM, which makes taking classes tough. All classes at our facility are in the evening, but I do NOT want to switch to the local AKC facility I had bad experiences at.

We've been renting our CPE facility in the mornings with one of the younger instructors as well as the occasional other student, so that makes our "class":

Gypsy
an 8ish-year-old rat terrier

sometimes an adult Papillion


----------



## Laurelin

My class right now is my two dogs and two shih poos (best guess for breed). One shih poo is probably going to quit for a while because his owner is ill.  We may be getting a toy fox terrier in our class. My instructor runs her viszla or border collie sometimes. But usually just me and the one shih poo.


----------



## CptJack

There is a second dog training facility that's a bit closer to me that does basically this kind of private instruction or classes with just a few dogs. I've never been, but classes there would be much smaller. The place I go is basically sandwiched between two major universities, and a couple of decent sized Cities. The second place is more rural. There's also a kind of divide with very little overlap. The place Kylie and I go to does do basic obedience and puppy classes, but otherwise it's really flyball and agility focused. They even have a competitive flyball team. The other place has the same puppy and basic manners type classes, but also goes on to higher level obedience and rally. 

The *biggest* selling point for me is that the place we go to doesn't demand the dog take ALL their pre-req classes with them. I checked the place we don't go out initially for Kylie and they were going to make me start with basic manners for Kylie, because I'd never gone there. Kylie did not need to know a danged thing that class taught, and it would have been a monumental waste of time, energy and money. She needed in a class, yeah, but not one that taught sit, down, and how not to jump up on people.

This makes me sad, since I'd like to explore Rally at some point, but I have no desire to do so at the expense of starting any of my dogs in a Basic Manners class. I wouldn't mind one if that's what it took to show what the dog could do, but working up through something like 6 months of rudimentary classes, and spending something like 400.00 to get to the class I actually want? I don't want it that bad. (I just keep editing) also looking at what's covered, the Basics classes at the other place cover more ground - By Basic 2 you're doing out of sight stays, off leash heeling and they have 'try it nights' for agility and flyball. The other class basic 2 covers staying at all and loose leash walking. Possibly because of the agility and flyball focus of the club/facility, they also include building and controlling drive in their FIRST basic class, as opposed to literally sit, down, and not jumping on people.

So, yeah. Blergh.


----------



## GrinningDog

CptJack said:


> The *biggest* selling point for me is that the place we go to doesn't demand the dog take ALL their pre-req classes with them. I checked the place we don't go out initially for Kylie and they were going to make me start with basic manners for Kylie, because I'd never gone there. Kylie did not need to know a danged thing that class taught, and it would have been a monumental waste of time, energy and money. She needed in a class, yeah, but not one that taught sit, down, and how not to jump up on people.


I'm moving to FL in a couple months, and I have a feeling agility will be vital to maintaining my sanity with Gypsy in a small apartment. I am SO, SO worried that this will be the situation at the facilities down there.

I don't mind backtracking a few classes and practicing more basic skills than where we're at. But we better not be falling back to intro or obedience work. _I_ will go insane.


----------



## CptJack

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> I'm moving to FL in a couple months, and I have a feeling agility will be vital to maintaining my sanity with Gypsy in a small apartment. I am SO, SO worried that this will be the situation at the facilities down there.
> 
> I don't mind backtracking a few classes and practicing more basic skills than where we're at. But we better not be falling back to intro or obedience work. _I_ will go insane.


I have everything crossable crossed for you, because I can't imagine both of you not being bored stupid and, as a result, driven nuts. 

I sort of understand the rule - sort of - in as much as you'd want to know where the dog is at. But for the love of GOD if I/You/Someone can show that the dog knows what it's doing and is willing to demonstrate where it's at, WHY CAN YOU NOT SKIP THIS STUFF?


----------



## elrohwen

Wow, I'm glad none of the places around here are like that! They are definitely willing to work with you and see where you are at, instead of making you take pointless intro classes all over again.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Wow, I'm glad none of the places around here are like that! They are definitely willing to work with you and see where you are at, instead of making you take pointless intro classes all over again.


It is really obnoxious. I found a sort of intermediate class to do with thud on Monday nights that will keep him busy until I can get his hips Xrayed next fall and decide if I want to try agility with him. He really needs the socialization and experience of working around other dogs and people and distractions, but I'm going to grumble growl and resent the fact that I am in no way going to do rally with him because the other place is so asinine. 

On the other hand: yay more dog classes. 

Also: Oh god, Thud. Kylie makes me look so good. Thud is so not.


----------



## CptJack

And then someone I know who does rally was discussing this with me and speculated that it's because facility We Don't Go To _competes_ and regular old training classes aren't the same. She may or may not have a point, I don't know, but -

...Lady, the facility we do go to is owned by the Captain of a club with 30 flyball teams and more specifically the individual team that won the Division 4 Can-America classic. Don't get me wrong, it's not Rally but I think there's some competition going on out of that place. Never mind the number of dogs taking agility there that ARE competing. 

WTH.


----------



## SDRRanger

In my class there is:

- Ranger (bc x gsd x lab of 2 years)
- Aus. Shepherd who is wired for sound and seem a little overwhelming for his owner..he's full grown but I'm sure he's young
- Sheltie who is under a year. He's handled by his breeder and she also shows him
- Sheltie who I have no idea how old he is. His handler is an 11-y-o girl and this is HER dog. She asked for him specifically and apparently gets up every morning before school to exercise him and does all his training. (her mother sits with my friend who comes to the classes and they chat).


----------



## Kathyy

My school allows you to be evaluated for a fee to see where you belong rather than start at zero. I wanted to start at zero with a bunch of novice dogs as Ginger hasn't ever been in a class before. 

Ginger's intro to agility class has
2 10 month old Rhodesian Ridgeback siblings owned by different families. One comes to class on a choke chain and is handled by a young girl with no idea on how to get her frantic shy pup to listen to her. Driving me crazy. Beautiful pups both of them. I love watching them move.

1 3 year old North American Shepherd handled by an experienced agility competitor who just acquired him last year. He is very handler focused and unsure of himself still.

1 1.5 year old rough collie handled by another experienced dog owner, very mild dog that has a great relationship with his owner but not driven at all.

1 young mini dachshund handled by a novice person. You can imagine how this dog acts in class. Wears a mesh harness so at least the lunges and barking fits aren't strangled and she is getting so much better whether she or her handler are dealing better I don't know, have my own stinker to attend to.

Me and Ginger, 14" and 15.5 pounds of unknown age and breed with a marvelously long haired tail. I have well over a decade of experience in agility but you wouldn't know it to see me although Ginger looks drivier than the other dogs in her class because I have been able to work with her on my home made equipment during the week.

Instructor brings one or another of her BC pups to class which I really like. Ginger watches other dogs and copies their behavior so I like her seeing pups that aren't space cadets.

Really, she copies other dogs. She had no stay before starting class - I worked with her from day one on this and got nowhere. She watched the other dogs and the following week I could actually lead out as long as she could see me over a jump. She started out leaping over the wobble board but after watching the other dogs figured out it wasn't so scary after all. Her side and close, at home nothing but at class she was all precise about the position. I HATE that she is a verbal learner as I am a big mush mouth and mix up my words constantly. She just looks at me when I say close and signal right leg when close is left leg. I am supposed to release her to her treat and always forget, Ginger waits for the release. That was what the instructor told ME but Ginger is the one that LEARNED it. 

Okay, up and work with my marvelous mutt. Work on moving away tonight I think. I will never get anywhere with her unless I can work at a distance and do sends.

Update. After 15 minute session [which also included Max doing sends and tunnels] she was doing a rear cross to the play tunnel [which is new for her], 6 very zippy but imperfect poles [only about 75% accurate] and moving up to 10' from me around the trash can. Also doing better sending into the tunnel but she isn't a fan of me being out of sight. She was also sort of staying when Max got his turn sending around the trash can. Not staying in a sit but staying on the patio and not 'helping' him go around the can anyway. Neither of us wanted to stop but less is more with agility.


----------



## LoMD13

Well, I think I discovered the secret of building Lola's toy drive at agility. Up until now she's had CRAZY toy drive at home, and basically none at agility. She'd halfheartedly tug a little bit, but nothing to write home about. 

So I had an epiphany last week that Lola's FAVORITE toy was a new toy. So I took a squeaky ball that I had bought but hadn't given to her, put it in it's own gift bag and whipped it out right before our first run. Oh my goodness- she ran as fast as her little legs could possibly run, she was bouncy and peppy and just awesome. And kept up that pace all night where she usually peters off after the first run. I had brought bacon as a backup plan because she's in such a funk, and she never even needed it in the ring.

So basically, spoiled dog needs a "new" toy every week.


----------



## elrohwen

Agility was really blah last night. First, we sort of signed up for the wrong class this term. The schedule said that my 8:00 class was changed from advanced beginner to intermediate, so I signed up for the 6:00 advanced beginner class. Apparently there were supposed to be two adv beginner classes and the 8:00 people were expected to stay at that time. Most people somehow found out after last class, except for me and two others who showed up at 6. It's probably better though, because this group is less advanced than the other, which is a better fit for us. The 8:00 people are in their 3rd or 4th time in adv beginner, while the 6:00 people just started. Since Watson still has jumping issues, I'd rather be in a class that moves slower. Second, the 6:00 time is so much better for me. And third, some of the people in the later class were really getting on my nerves. Haha. 

The other reason it wasn't fun is that we worked on the teeter, and Watson had a panic attack. He has worked with it a couple times, just baby steps, but has never heard it slam down as another dog ran across, since the others were doing baby steps too. This time, two of the dogs were advanced enough to do it normally and he didn't like the banging. The first couple times he was fine, startled, but took a treat and recovered. As it kept going on, he got more and more panicked. :-( I'm not really sure what to do about it the next time we work teeters. We left the arena and were as far away as we could be in the barn without being outside, and he was flailing at the end of the leash each time it banged down. He wouldn't take treats, which is so unusual for him. He's always been a little uncomfortable with loud noises, but just a startle and then back to normal, never this panic.


----------



## elrohwen

LoMD13 said:


> So basically, spoiled dog needs a "new" toy every week.


That was probably her plan all along


----------



## RabbleFox

Could you maybe get some open floor time to work on teeters with him?

You'll want the teeter to hit the ground quietly for a while. So maybe it's a two person job. One person will tilt the teeter without it hitting the ground, treat Watson. Repeat. Tilt the teeter, allow it to hit the ground really, really softly. Treat Watson. Increases the noisibess of the teeter as he becomes more comfortable. 

I built my own teeter to work Pepper on. We did teeters at home way before class did as we were a bit more advanced. It helps to be able to work it daily in a safe environment without other dogs slamming the teeter down.

I can't wait for the snow to melt so Mer can try his hand at my obstacles.


----------



## elrohwen

RabbleFox said:


> Could you maybe get some open floor time to work on teeters with him?


Not really. I think they only rent out ring time to members, and I'm not at the stage where I'm willing to pay the money to be a member and work the required volunteer hours. I could talk to my instructor and see if there's anything we can do. It would've been better if we were still in the 8:00 class, because it's the last one and maybe she would have stayed 10min later to work with us.

So far the teeter has hit the ground very softly and he never noticed or cared (and he was still fine with it when the more beginner dogs were doing just that). We don't work teeters often, but I'll have to figure something out for next time. I'll probably just put him in the car if other dogs are going to slam it down. Or let him hear the bang once, take a treat, and then go sit in the car. He's only mildly uncomfortable the first couple times, I think it was just the repetition that really got him.


----------



## elrohwen

I was also really proud of him for recovering and rocking the weave-o-matics later in class. He's a good boy. I'm glad that he's able to recover from things fairly quickly instead of shutting down.


----------



## CptJack

Why don't you ask the instructor to alter the order of dogs going so there is a break between the teeter slamming down - or am I not reading right and most of the dogs are slapping it to the ground?


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Why don't you ask the instructor to alter the order of dogs going so there is a break between the teeter slamming down - or am I not reading right and most of the dogs are slapping it to the ground?


There were 5 beginner teeter dogs, including Watson, so they all went first. In some cases the teeter came down softly, and he was fine with that. The two more advanced dogs went back to back, which certainly didn't help him. Each went maybe 3-4 times in a row, so it was like 6-8 bangs and then the quiet of the other dogs going (really double that, since it bangs going down, and again as it resets). If it had just been one bang, then quiet for a while, I think he would have been able to recover between each. That's a good idea to ask her to split those two up at least, so it's half as much noise at a time.

Honestly, we rarely work on the teeter (maybe 1-2 times in a 6 week session, IME so far) so I'm not sure when it will come up again. I really don't want him to panic the next time we do it though.


----------



## Kathyy

Sassy had fear of teeters. I built a practice one at home. 6' board with a 4x4 lag bolted off center so it would stay tipped to one end. First I worked it on the grass so she got comfortable with the movement then moved it so it rocked back on the patio making a little noise then finally on the patio so it slammed when she ran to the end. Nothing as loud as the ones in class but it got her over her noise/movement anxiety. Now I have a nifty 8' one with an adjustable pvc base as I tossed the 6' board when Max was fine with teeters until he broke a dewclaw on one and came up with a fancy semi official looking one. So far Ginger is showing no problem with it on grass but perhaps I need to move it to the patio for more noise. I have her pull the 1/3 height end down so she knows how it works and she can do the same with the 1/3 height one in class. Celebrate the noise rather than it be an unpleasant surprise. One thing I did with Sassy was have her retrieve her stainless steel bowl for meals. She had a grand time slamming it all over the house and with my tile floors it wasn't exactly quiet! We spend so much time training dogs to be quiet they don't learn that it can be fun to make noise I guess.

Ginger was awesome last night. I didn't run out of treats even. She had a rotten carnassial pulled on Monday and was on antibiotics and pain killers. She was pulling to go do the weaves [and was accurate and hopping through fast] and running the dog walk beautifully. Tunnel not so much and I was outrunning her on a 3 jump/tunnel circle but she was doing the jumps even though I was so far ahead it was hard to keep my eye on her. Maybe tunnels will be easier once daylight savings starts and we won't be under artificial lighting.


----------



## elrohwen

Kathyy, that's a great idea. I was thinking that I would have to get a real teeter (or build something expensive) to work on it, but a board with a pivot point a few inches off the ground would be really good too. Even if it doesn't help the noise issue so much, he's also nervous about the movement so we can help at least one of his issues.

I've got to work on building jumps too so they'll be ready when the ground finally thaws and isn't ridiculously muddy. I want to build a jump chute in the backyard and follow Suzanne Clothier's jumping protocol to improve his confidence. I think he's nervous about jumps because he hasn't worked out the distance yet, and this should help a lot. 

I'm lucky that he loves tunnels and the A-frame so far. He's ok with the dog walk, but if we've recently worked on the teeter he thinks it might move on him and sometimes bails. When we haven't done the teeter in weeks he's great with it, so he just needs to figure that part out.

Oh, and since our class has completely changed up I should share the dogs in it. 
male golden (same from last class)
female golden (also the same)
male lab (seems older than 5, but not sure)
female Aussie (seems around a year)
female mix (almost looks like a smaller black great dane - no clue, probably about a year old)
female corgi (puppy!! with big corgi ears!)


----------



## CptJack

The make-up agility class was today. It was held outside in the agility field behind the instructor's house. Open field, surrounded by horses, sheep, some cows, and several LGD. Oh and a pond with ducks and wild rabbits around. 

All things considered, it didn't go badly. We got some extra attention because there were only four of us there, a good time was had by all but - 

Oh. My. God.

All the dogs were fried because it was the end of a weekend. All the dogs were over the moon because OMG IT'S A BIG OPEN FIELD AND THERE ARE LIVESTOCK. I have never laughed so hard in my LIFE. It was absolute, utter, chaos. Don't get me wrong, the dogs DID do what they were supposed to do - They went over the A-frame, did their jumps, went through the tunnel, we worked on some blind and I got politely chewed out for not trusting Kylie and an important reminder, but...

Oh. My _God._

Kylie needs about four baths, and I sprained something laughing. 

WOW. Just... wow.


----------



## GrinningDog

@ elrohwen - Gypsy had trouble with the teeter noise too. I wasn't surprised, since she's extremely noise sensitive in general. What helped A TON was playing with a cheapo Walmart skateboard on our hardwood deck and rewarding when she caused one side to bang down. Our agility facility is indoors and the noise is somewhat muted on the flooring, but she's totally fine with it now. I kinda wonder how she'll handle the teeter when we move to a new facility.


----------



## elrohwen

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> @ elrohwen - Gypsy had trouble with the teeter noise too. I wasn't surprised, since she's extremely noise sensitive in general. What helped A TON was playing with a cheapo Walmart skateboard on our hardwood deck and rewarding when she caused one side to bang down. Our agility facility is indoors and the noise is somewhat muted on the flooring, but she's totally fine with it now. I kinda wonder how she'll handle the teeter when we move to a new facility.


How long did it take for her to be ok with the skateboard? I've tried teaching him to make noise with pots and pans, and he'll smack them with his paw and look at me like "I did it, but I didn't like it. Now give me my treat." I feel like I'm torturing him by asking him to do it. I'm not sure if I should keep trying things like that, or change up my method a little.


----------



## GrinningDog

> How long did it take for her to be ok with the skateboard? I've tried teaching him to make noise with pots and pans, and he'll smack them with his paw and look at me like "I did it, but I didn't like it. Now give me my treat." I feel like I'm torturing him by asking him to do it. I'm not sure if I should keep trying things like that, or change up my method a little.


Probably like 10 short sessions over a couple days to where she wasn't totally weirded out the first few times she made it smash. I can tell, she doesn't love the noise of the skateboard, even now, but she does know it gets her high value treats, tugs, tennis ball throws, and freakout praise from mom, and she REALLY likes all of that. I tried to get her revved up to earn the reward, and she worked through her discomfort. And since the skateboard on our deck is way noisier than the teeter, she has little to no problem with the teeter now. The only issue we have with the teeter these days appears if we haven't seen it in a couple weeks, she won't hold the contact as confidently the first time through. I think the noise distracts her for a moment, and she forgets I need her to WAIT.

We played with the skateboard on carpet a little bit before bringing it outside too. If Watson is concerned with the tipping AND the noise, maybe work with him on the tipping indoors on a quieter surface first and then introduce the smash?


----------



## elrohwen

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> Probably like 10 short sessions over a couple days to where she wasn't totally weirded out the first few times she made it smash. I can tell, she doesn't love the noise of the skateboard, even now, but she does know it gets her high value treats, tugs, tennis ball throws, and freakout praise from mom, and she REALLY likes all of that. I tried to get her revved up to earn the reward, and she worked through her discomfort. And since the skateboard on our deck is way noisier than the teeter, she has little to no problem with the teeter now. The only issue we have with the teeter these days appears if we haven't seen it in a couple weeks, she won't hold the contact as confidently the first time through. I think the noise distracts her for a moment, and she forgets I need her to WAIT.
> 
> We played with the skateboard on carpet a little bit before bringing it outside too. If Watson is concerned with the tipping AND the noise, maybe work with him on the tipping indoors on a quieter surface first and then introduce the smash?


We've done at least that many sessions with pot and pan lids, quiet (one lid on the linoleum) and loud (multiple lids banging into each other) and he still doesn't like it. I feel bad because the purpose of the conditioning is to make him say "Yay noise!" but instead it's like "Oh god, I have to do this again? Let's get it over with." It also didn't make him any less concerned about hearing pots and pans banging when I get them out of the cabinet.

I think the other problem with the teeter is that it only makes noise when he's not on it (so far anyway), so he's not controlling the noise and that makes it scarier. He was doing ok with learning to make it move, but once he heard it banging he regressed a bit and we went back to putting his feet on it while it was stationary.

I was going to try making a baby teeter, just a board with a pipe attached or something, so it's at floor level but still involves movement and noise (like a wobble board x teeter combination). I hope I can get him more comfortable with the movement and noise, but I don't want to push him over the edge into hating it more because I'm forcing him.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> We've done at least that many sessions with pot and pan lids, quiet (one lid on the linoleum) and loud (multiple lids banging into each other) and he still doesn't like it. I feel bad because the purpose of the conditioning is to make him say "Yay noise!" but instead it's like "Oh god, I have to do this again? Let's get it over with." It also didn't make him any less concerned about hearing pots and pans banging when I get them out of the cabinet.
> 
> I think the other problem with the teeter is that it only makes noise when he's not on it (so far anyway), so he's not controlling the noise and that makes it scarier. He was doing ok with learning to make it move, but once he heard it banging he regressed a bit and we went back to putting his feet on it while it was stationary.
> 
> I was going to try making a baby teeter, just a board with a pipe attached or something, so it's at floor level but still involves movement and noise (like a wobble board x teeter combination). I hope I can get him more comfortable with the movement and noise, but I don't want to push him over the edge into hating it more because I'm forcing him.


Going out on a limb here, but have you looked into some info for desensitizing gunshy dogs? Put the sound at a distance, or record it and control the volume and reward for increasing closeness/volume? So he stays under threshold with the 'bang', rather than asking him to be right on top of it and MAKING the noise?


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Going out on a limb here, but have you looked into some info for desensitizing gunshy dogs? Put the sound at a distance, or record it and control the volume and reward for increasing closeness/volume? So he stays under threshold with the 'bang', rather than asking him to be right on top of it and MAKING the noise?


That's what I planned to try in class next time the teeter comes out, though last time no distance was far enough away for him to stop freaking out (he was way over threshold by then). I may be able to simulate that at home with pots and pans and a helper (that's the only other loud noise I can think of that makes him nervous).

It's tricky because he's not afraid of any recording. He has never reacted to any loud recorded noise. He shies a little from fireworks and gunshots if they are very close, but because they were always isolated events he was able to recover quickly and be more confident the next time. He had such an issue in class because the noise kept repeating. So using that information, it seems like we should slam the teeter once when he's a reasonable distance away, treat him, then not do it again until another class. If he can fully recover after the sound, he seems to become desensitized to it.


----------



## GrinningDog

elrohwen said:


> We've done at least that many sessions with pot and pan lids, quiet (one lid on the linoleum) and loud (multiple lids banging into each other) and he still doesn't like it. I feel bad because the purpose of the conditioning is to make him say "Yay noise!" but instead it's like "Oh god, I have to do this again? Let's get it over with." It also didn't make him any less concerned about hearing pots and pans banging when I get them out of the cabinet.
> 
> I think the other problem with the teeter is that it only makes noise when he's not on it (so far anyway), so he's not controlling the noise and that makes it scarier. He was doing ok with learning to make it move, but once he heard it banging he regressed a bit and we went back to putting his feet on it while it was stationary.
> 
> I was going to try making a baby teeter, just a board with a pipe attached or something, so it's at floor level but still involves movement and noise (like a wobble board x teeter combination). I hope I can get him more comfortable with the movement and noise, but I don't want to push him over the edge into hating it more because I'm forcing him.


Hm, that's tough then. What got us through was that Gypsy's desire to earn her reward was so much greater than her fear of the noise, especially after continued exposure to the noise made it less novel and scary. Is there some creative reward you could use that Watson goes bananas for? Or a new, awesome toy that you pull out just for a reward in teeter practice?

We never delved into the pots and pans technique, but Gypsy definitely seemed to generalize the skateboard training. Training on a makeshift teeter/wobble board would probably be even easier for a dog to translate over to an agility course. You're probably right to take it waaay slow, staying under threshold, and reward heavily (i.e. throw a crazy puppy party).


----------



## CptJack

CptJack said:


> The last class with all of us together is a distance handling competition - sending the dogs, directing them around things, etc at increasingly greater distances. Whoever can do it from the furthest away wins. Spoiler: It won't be us.


...Guess who tied for the win and won a squeaky teddy bear?


----------



## GrinningDog

CptJack said:


> ...Guess who tied for the win and won a squeaky teddy bear?


Yaaay! And a squeaky teddy bear prize? Awesome.  Bet Kylie is thrilled.


----------



## SDRRanger

Ranger's class on Sunday was great. We're working on downs with both front legs out as he likes to curl one under himself, and I still haven't been working on him LLW on the right side which I need to do before Sunday otherwise I risk the wrath of Serious Instructor (or SI as I will now refer to her lol). The temp instructor that was in for this class said he had the best stay in the group which made me proud. 

I'm getting nervous now though. The power which he coils into his explosive release really makes me wonder if I am going to be able to keep up with him. I've recently been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and on a good day I'm slow. The speed that he's showing means I am going to have to work very hard on training long lead offs and working independently past me otherwise we'll never make it round a course. 

Also, for Elrohwen: Ranger HATED to teeter noise when we first started and literally wouldn't go near it. We worked with a lower teeter and put a pillow under the bottom to deaden the noise until he was happy to be on it, then moved to having him go over it with something less softening (a book) and finally started asking for him to thump a baby teeter (about 2 inches off the ground) even with only one foot and then come back for a treat. Now he'll go from one end to the other with it slamming but still only a few inches off the ground. Haven't moved up yet, but I hope the basics are there for him to be comfortable on a higher one.


----------



## Sibe

Yay Kylie!!


----------



## CptJack

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> Yaaay! And a squeaky teddy bear prize? Awesome.  Bet Kylie is thrilled.


She liked the graduation cookie more XD but yeah, squeaky fetch toys ftw. 

I'm so crazy proud of her. She just keeps surprising and impressing me - both with the actual agility stuff and, more importantly to me, socially and in confidence. She'd still prefer not to be pet by strangers, but she's so much less wary around people now and so much happier as a result. I can not WAIT for the next set of classes.



Sibe said:


> Yay Kylie!!


Thanks!


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> ...Guess who tied for the win and won a squeaky teddy bear?


Woohoo! Good job!


----------



## Sibe

For the teeter, the very first thing we did with it was "the band game." Instructor gently pushes the teeter down from a low height and when it hits we all click and treat our dogs. Repeat, repeat, repeat, gradually instructor pushes it down harder and from higher up until she's forcefully banging it down and all the dogs are looking up expectantly for their treat. Then the next class we repeated that for a bit, then she put a Table under the low end to prop it up, dogs got on the table and walked down the teeter which then only had a couple inches to move before it touched the ground. Instructor put squeeze cheese on the end of the teeter. Each lesson the Table was moved a little more to allow the teeter to move more. Worked great for Nali.


We're still out due to her paw, new session starting today... I miss it


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY Kylie!!!


----------



## CptJack

Finkie_Mom said:


> YAY Kylie!!!


I may, just possibly, have also registered her with the Pet Partner's program. Just in case, you know. 

Seriously, thanks. I'm *still*, hours and hours later, surprised and impressed and all chuffed.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

CptJack said:


> I may, just possibly, have also registered her with the Pet Partner's program. Just in case, you know.
> 
> Seriously, thanks. I'm *still*, hours and hours later, surprised and impressed and all chuffed.


Sooooo trialing in your future????


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Sibe said:


> We're still out due to her paw, new session starting today... I miss it


 I hope she gets better quickly and you guys can start running again. I love hearing about your progress and seeing videos - you are both an awesome team!!!


----------



## elrohwen

Yay Kylie!!!!


SRDRanger and Sibe, those are the exact methods we have been using, but so far we have only done about 3-4 sessions with the teeter. His progress was slow once he realized it moved, but he was figuring it out. Now that he knows it can make noise (beyond than a soft thump) he wants nothing to do with it and it set us back pretty far. He could surprise me and jump back to where he was previously (just about walking the whole way across while the instructor gradually lowering it), but at the end of the last class he had to be convinced to put his back feet on at all when it was completely stationary (propped on a table with the instructor sitting on it, treating him). 

So yeah, I dunno. I just feel like I'm so bad at counter conditioning. He'll do things because I ask (like banging pots and pans, or putting his feet on the teeter), but he really doesn't like it. He's generally so confident, sometimes overly confident, but when he decides he doesn't like something he totally shuts down. At least when he's stressing up I know he's normal and will work through it, but when he shuts down it's not good. I worry that my counter conditioning is going to turn counter productive because I'm asking him to do something he still doesn't like. I hope he just needs more time and if we go slowly enough he'll come around. I wasn't worried about the teeter at all before, because he was progressing, but dealing with the noise when other dogs practice is a much harder thing to get him over.


----------



## RabbleFox

So it's still super snowy and the agility classes we have around here require a bunch of prerequisites. Whilst I train Mer in obedience skills, I've brought one of my jumps inside to start him on that. When we move, we will start taking classes at a nice facility that is completely agility focused. He's jumped over it before but it was outside and a few months ago. Now that the jump is inside, it's terrifying. I spent this morning trying to get him to take treats in the same room as the jump with little success. Working with this scaredy cat can be very trying sometimes. 

Conclusion: Everyday objects in novel places are scary. More treats are necessary.


----------



## Laurelin

We've been having some issues with Mia. So depending on the way the vet goes this weekend we may be quitting.  It's sad to think about. I'm really worried about her breathing and think she may be slowing down so much in agility because of it. 

Summer is progressing very well and lots of fun to run. 

I'm just worried. :/


----------



## elrohwen

RabbleFox said:


> So it's still super snowy and the agility classes we have around here require a bunch of prerequisites. Whilst I train Mer in obedience skills, I've brought one of my jumps inside to start him on that. When we move, we will start taking classes at a nice facility that is completely agility focused. He's jumped over it before but it was outside and a few months ago. Now that the jump is inside, it's terrifying. I spent this morning trying to get him to take treats in the same room as the jump with little success. Working with this scaredy cat can be very trying sometimes.
> 
> Conclusion: Everyday objects in novel places are scary. More treats are necessary.


Oh no! Poor little guy. Watson's not super comfortable with jumps either, thought at least he's not scared of them. I know what you mean about regular objects popping up in new places being scary for them.



Laurelin said:


> We've been having some issues with Mia. So depending on the way the vet goes this weekend we may be quitting.  It's sad to think about. I'm really worried about her breathing and think she may be slowing down so much in agility because of it.
> 
> Summer is progressing very well and lots of fun to run.
> 
> I'm just worried. :/


Vibes for Mia! I hope if the vet finds anything that it's fixable.


----------



## CptJack

Finkie_Mom said:


> Sooooo trialing in your future????


Maybe! I'm very, very used to seeing any kind of competition as BAD pressure that makes me choke - I've spent a long time struggling with anxiety issues with a psychologist and meds - and I guess I assumed somehow I would be MISERABLE with even the slightest bit of pressure above and beyond classes. But somehow that doesn't seem to be happening. Probably because it's so much more about you and your dog as opposed to you vs. someone else (directly, anyway). 



Laurelin said:


> We've been having some issues with Mia. So depending on the way the vet goes this weekend we may be quitting.  It's sad to think about. I'm really worried about her breathing and think she may be slowing down so much in agility because of it.
> 
> Summer is progressing very well and lots of fun to run.
> 
> I'm just worried. :/



Oh gosh, I am so sorry. I've got everything crossed for her- and you. That sounds absolutely terrifying.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> So yeah, I dunno. I just feel like I'm so bad at counter conditioning. He'll do things because I ask (like banging pots and pans, or putting his feet on the teeter), but he really doesn't like it. He's generally so confident, sometimes overly confident, but when he decides he doesn't like something he totally shuts down. At least when he's stressing up I know he's normal and will work through it, but when he shuts down it's not good. I worry that my counter conditioning is going to turn counter productive because I'm asking him to do something he still doesn't like. I hope he just needs more time and if we go slowly enough he'll come around. I wasn't worried about the teeter at all before, because he was progressing, but dealing with the noise when other dogs practice is a much harder thing to get him over.


I know you know what you're doing so please don't think I'm doing more than sharing my experiences here, but - 

One of the things I have noticed with Kylie is that she will do anything I ask her to do, but if she hates it all the treats in the world will not make her like it doing it in those circumstances. It's like when I was trying to socialize her and people would give her a treat and pet her (or pet her and give her a treat). She didn't learn to like being pet because of the treat, she just learned to hate the treat and the petting. The only thing in the world that has worked with those things is 'choose to ______'. Lure or ask it once, jackpot the dog and then consistently continue high value treats every time the behavior is _offered_. Unfortunately, that takes pretty much FOREVER when it's something she doesn't like or is afraid of and is even a bigger pinta when it's something like jumping that requires equipment be out since I have to start by pretty much rewarding the stuffing out of her for LOOKING at the thing.


----------



## Laurelin

Yep, I'm worried. I guess I just won't know till Friday but I'm just worried. That's my baby girl, you know?


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I know you know what you're doing so please don't think I'm doing more than sharing my experiences here, but -
> 
> One of the things I have noticed with Kylie is that she will do anything I ask her to do, but if she hates it all the treats in the world will not make her like it doing it in those circumstances. It's like when I was trying to socialize her and people would give her a treat and pet her (or pet her and give her a treat). She didn't learn to like being pet because of the treat, she just learned to hate the treat and the petting. The only thing in the world that has worked with those things is 'choose to ______'. Lure or ask it once, jackpot the dog and then consistently continue high value treats every time the behavior is _offered_. Unfortunately, that takes pretty much FOREVER when it's something she doesn't like or is afraid of and is even a bigger pinta when it's something like jumping that requires equipment be out since I have to start by pretty much rewarding the stuffing out of her for LOOKING at the thing.


I think this is really really smart and it's why I've never felt very good at counter conditioning. I keep asking and he keeps doing it, but I *know* that he's starting to resent that I'm asking it since he really doesn't like it. I've tried to counter condition my rabbits for things too and some worked, while others just made them shut down and leave training.

I'm going to leave a pot lid out in the kitchen and not ask him to touch it, because he knows how the game works now. I'll see what he does and if he'll offer anything. I really want him to *like* making noise, instead of doing it because I'm basically bribing him.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Sorry to hear about Mia. Cptjack, I found with one of my Shih Tzu x Maltese, that the Agility really helped her confidence. When I first started she would not let strange people near her and she gradually got better. She did end up getting three Q's in games at our one and only indoor trial. She got worse at the outdoor trials as she was terrified of big dogs so started to shut down so I did not push it and retired her. She still loves running Agility indoors even if there are big dogs, but with only one indoor trial a year it was not worth keeping up her training.

We do not have a lot of problem with noisy teeters as most of our trials are outdoors on grass so it is more muffled. We started with the low teeter, a few inches off the ground and when it got higher, we put a pillow under it at first until they were confident. Remmy has always done running contacts but I started Lucy right off with the 2o2o and she does it really well. Can hardly wait till we can get back to training. We have had really nice weather the past week, only down to freezing at night and sunny during the day and up to 10C so the snow is going fairly fast.


----------



## LoMD13

When Lo started refusing the teeter, I just went right back to square 1. Teeter flat on the ground so that it only moved maybe an inch. When she could do that confidently and happy, I moved it up to the next notch, a few inches off the ground, and so on and so on. I think with the teeter it's really easy to go too far too fast. 

Another thing to watch for is he might be a bit hesitant on the dogwalk since it looks a lot like the teeter from the dogs angle, Lo started refusing that too when she had was having teeter trouble.


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> We've been having some issues with Mia. So depending on the way the vet goes this weekend we may be quitting.  It's sad to think about. I'm really worried about her breathing and think she may be slowing down so much in agility because of it.
> 
> Summer is progressing very well and lots of fun to run.
> 
> I'm just worried. :/


Tons of vibes for Mia, I'll be thinking of her Friday with my fingers crossed.


----------



## elrohwen

LoMD13 said:


> When Lo started refusing the teeter, I just went right back to square 1. Teeter flat on the ground so that it only moved maybe an inch. When she could do that confidently and happy, I moved it up to the next notch, a few inches off the ground, and so on and so on. I think with the teeter it's really easy to go too far too fast.


He was doing so well with the slow introduction method that I'm discouraged by the big set back of hearing the teeter slam into the ground. Too much too fast for him.



> Another thing to watch for is he might be a bit hesitant on the dogwalk since it looks a lot like the teeter from the dogs angle, Lo started refusing that too when she had was having teeter trouble.


This has already been an issue. He was ok on the dog walk at first, then we worked on the teeter and the next time he did the dog walk he bailed off. I got him confident on the dog walk again (he realizes it's not going to move on him), but now with the teeter set back I'm going to have to help him on the dog walk again.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I always tried to make sure that I used a definitely different command for the teeter and dog walk and practiced getting them to know the difference. Even so, one time Remmy was really raring to go and the way he ran up the teeter it was obvious he thought it was the dog walk till he flew off the end. Luckily it did not bother him and he never ever did that again.

My sister's Rat Terrier was having a bit of an issue with the teeter and what the instructor suggested was tipping the teeter so the end that tipped down was on the ground and holding the teeter so it would not move and lifting the dog and putting it on the raised end and letting her run down the teeter. She just gradually adjusted how much the teeter was off the ground. (Don't know if that makes sense and only works for a dog you can lift up) Took a while but soon she was happily running up the teeter and riding it down.


----------



## elrohwen

Kyllobernese said:


> My sister's Rat Terrier was having a bit of an issue with the teeter and what the instructor suggested was tipping the teeter so the end that tipped down was on the ground and holding the teeter so it would not move and lifting the dog and putting it on the raised end and letting her run down the teeter. She just gradually adjusted how much the teeter was off the ground. (Don't know if that makes sense and only works for a dog you can lift up) Took a while but soon she was happily running up the teeter and riding it down.


Watson is way too big for that. Haha. We did something like that for the dog walk the first time (lift them up on the "down" side, and let them run down and hit the contact, before making them do the whole thing). It was really awkward getting him on there. My husband is good at picking him up, but when I do his legs are flailing every which way.


----------



## MrsBoats

Finally my backyard has no snow and the ground has dried so we're not running on mud. I can start breaking out agility equipment!

Today's mission was front crosses and the pause table. It was a little sequence from the Alphabet Drills book and the last jump, I substituted the table. It was a lot of fun to handle and we got to work collection, collection, collection which is something the black and tans have issues with...like don't wanna ever. It's much more exciting to run in full extention...all...the...time. LOL

Lars - 






Ocean -


----------



## SDRRanger

fingers crossed for Mia....


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks. I'm hoping for good news. Having a bit of a health crisis myself too on top of it and hoping for good news on boht. I'm stressed. 

In good news Summer is entered in her first NADAC. 2 touch and go runs, one tunnelers, and one jumpers. We will see how that goes. I'm nervous!


----------



## GrinningDog

Laurelin said:


> Thanks. I'm hoping for good news. Having a bit of a health crisis myself too on top of it and hoping for good news on boht. I'm stressed.
> 
> In good news Summer is entered in her first NADAC. 2 touch and go runs, one tunnelers, and one jumpers. We will see how that goes. I'm nervous!


Best wishes for you and the pup, Laurelin! 

I'm not too familiar with NADAC. But I'm curious: what is a touch and go run?


----------



## Laurelin

No idea! Never done NADAC before. I just wante 2 run days since she's older and new to it all. 

Probably should figure it out before we run haha. I do know it has contact obstacles and jumps. Not sure about tunnels.


----------



## Laurelin

Apparently it's contacts tunnels and hoops. Good to know.


----------



## MrsBoats

I've done a lot of NADAC with Lars and the one thing I will tell you about it especially with touch and go is be ready for contact/tunnel discrimination. NADAC is big on that. With Touch and Go, Elite, Open and Novice all run the same course...but each level has a different course time. Elite has a very, very tight course time where wide turns and running an inefficient path will bite you and eat up time. Novice has much more time of course. There are no refusals in NADAC but you are NQ'ed with an off course. 

Here's a touch and go class with Lars -

[video]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151347272866928&set=vb.690476927&type=3&theater[/video]

This is tunnelers with Lars - 

[video]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151345406796928&set=vb.690476927&type=3&theater[/video]

NADAC is all about speed and flow so their courses are wide open and you have to be ready to really run with your dog or use a lot of distance handling. You'll have fun though.


----------



## elrohwen

Yesterday's class went so well! The teeter came out and I won't pretend like I was happy about it. This time the instructor was able to find two tables, so the teeter was propped up on both sides and unable to make as much noise as last week. She walked us through how to train it, then left half of the class to work on it more or less independently, while the other half did some jumping. Of course Watson was pretty uncomfortable at first, but by the end of the session we had moved from him sitting under a chair at the other end of the arena, to waiting his turn in line fairly calmly. He was also walking across the teeter without needing too much encouragement by the end of class, though someone still helped lower it gently (and it was only lowering about 6"). A huge improvement from not wanting to put more than two feet on it. The best part was when our instructor realized he wasn't crazy about food on the teeter, but loved cuddles, so she would sit at the end and he would have to cross it to get to her and cuddle. lol What a silly dog.

Then we went to the jumping exercise. It was basically one jump-tunnel, then two jumps-tunnel, then three (but my group ran out of time for three). The first time with two jumps he knocked the first bar, but instead of shutting down and running out on the second jump he rallied and did fine. She had me to do it again to see what he would do about the first jump, and he flew through confidently and without an issue the second time. I think he's starting to figure out jumping! Yay! And as usual he flew to the tunnel, and the first time considered running off to the dogs training on the teeter, but he changed his mind and came to me. Every time after that he didn't even think about running off. 

He's really come so far and I'm so relieved that he was able to progress with the teeter without going over threshold again. I love my new class time too - the people are really nice, and the dogs who are about the same level as Watson. And they drive me so much less crazy than my previous class.


----------



## Kathyy

Good that Watson had a good teeter lesson.

MrsBoats, it has been quite a while but I remember being very interested watching competitors at an NADAC trial obsessing over a simple contact/tunnel discrimination as there was only one discrimination on the course. All of these people ran USDAA and saw much tougher stuff there. Guess the wide open course meant if they couldn't get lateral distance and good sends they couldn't be there in time to help the dog out. I decided Max's NADAC goal was triple superior open as I didn't think he had it in him to go to elite as it was impossible for him to qualify in steeplechase in USDAA. He easily did that and most of his extra runs did make elite time, oh well.

Laurelin, be sure to watch the Elite people run whatever standard is called. They get extra points for staying behind a line and doing a huge portion of the course like a very far gamble. It is awesome. And I know Summer is amazing but ask if there is a hoop at the trial for her to see before running or make up something at home so she understands what it is. I know they did intro for the breakaway tire back when, perhaps they do one for the hoop as they are the only organization that has that obstacle.

Ginger's class last night was fine. She was fine running the board, the dogwalk and the 2" tipped teeter but the wobble board was hard as it tipped up 6" for a 3' circle. She was doing 4 jump pinwheels to the curved very dark tunnel really nicely holding a start line and I even got some lateral distance on her for the first jump out the the tunnel. AND probably best of all, she was distracted by another dog as she was running and decided it was more fun to do agility than be the fun police. There was a goofy golden pup there handled by an extremely competent handler last night. He got the zoomies and wanted to visit so she had to do her buzz saw routine though. I worked with her when the scary big dogs that she wanted to grumble at were running and she was cooperating with that strategy. I had a better time staying with her too, love those pinwheels.

Hate treat bits so I decided to slice the hot dog and string cheese lengthwise. Hot dogs look and feel like worms sliced lengthwise. Eww.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer has seen a hoop like... 6 years ago when we did UKC agility for a few months....even though they don't have a hoop in UKC they had some at the facility. So that should be interesting.


----------



## Laurelin

MrsBoats said:


> I've done a lot of NADAC with Lars and the one thing I will tell you about it especially with touch and go is be ready for contact/tunnel discrimination. NADAC is big on that. With Touch and Go, Elite, Open and Novice all run the same course...but each level has a different course time. Elite has a very, very tight course time where wide turns and running an inefficient path will bite you and eat up time. Novice has much more time of course. There are no refusals in NADAC but you are NQ'ed with an off course.
> 
> Here's a touch and go class with Lars -
> 
> [video]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151347272866928&set=vb.690476927&type=3&theater[/video]
> 
> This is tunnelers with Lars -
> 
> [video]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151345406796928&set=vb.690476927&type=3&theater[/video]
> 
> NADAC is all about speed and flow so their courses are wide open and you have to be ready to really run with your dog or use a lot of distance handling. You'll have fun though.


I need to watch these when I get home! I can't get on facebook at work. :/

I'm excited but nervous she'll do something weird with the hoop. Oh well should be fun. Only 1 week to go!


----------



## elrohwen

I forgot to mention how much I love the corgi pup in our new class. OMG the ears! I'm not sure how old, maybe 6 months? Last night the owner went to the exit of the tunnel while the instructor held her at start, then released her (she's not allowed off leash because of crazy puppy zoomies) and she rocketed through so fast I didn't think the owner would be able to catch her on the other end. She's just a blast.


----------



## CptJack

Heh. Youtubing around for the NADAC agility stuff, I actually found our trainer:


----------



## Laurelin

Well, Mia is officially done with agility. Collapsing trachea.


----------



## LoMD13

Oh Mia  I'm so sorry, not what we were hoping to hear.


----------



## CptJack

I'm so sorry, Laurelin.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Sorry to hear about Mia. Is there anything that can be done for it?


----------



## Laurelin

No, there is not much to be done with it. It is a progressive disease and if it gets bad enough she may have to have a stent put in to open her airway. As it is right now when she breathes she is only getting half the air to her heart and lungs as she is supposed to. She's supposed to trim up as much as possible, limit her exercise for life, and keep her out of the heat. Sucks.


----------



## trainingjunkie

What caused this?
I am so sorry.


----------



## Laurelin

They don't know what exactly causes collapsing trachea, but it's not uncommon in small breeds. Sometimes it's congenital but hers obviously isn't because she's been fine her whole life till now.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> They don't know what exactly causes collapsing trachea, but it's not uncommon in small breeds. Sometimes it's congenital but hers obviously isn't because she's been fine her whole life till now.


It's actually something that most commonly appears around 5-6 years old - or so I've been told. It's like the rings just get tired and go floppy with age, or something.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah I read 6-7 years old but she's pretty close to that at 5 years. Ugh gosh lots of reading to do now.


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> Well, Mia is officially done with agility. Collapsing trachea.


 Oh God, I'm so sorry Laurelin  That's awful.


----------



## SDRRanger

Sorry to hear about Mia. I'd be interested to know what you find out reading if you'd be up for sharing.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Oh no, Laurelin. That is not what I was hoping to hear... Poor you and Mia


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks guys. It is rough. I'm trying to adjust to the new normal and try not to worry so much about the what ifs that the future holds. I just wish I could explain to her... I hope we have many more years together that are happy.


----------



## Abbylynn

Laurelin said:


> Thanks guys. It is rough. I'm trying to adjust to the new normal and try not to worry so much about the what ifs that the future holds. I just wish I could explain to her... I hope we have many more years together that are happy.


I am so sorry to hear this. I too wish you many more happy years together. Sending prayers for both of you.


----------



## Whistlejacket

I'm so very sorry to hear about Mia, Laurelin  But I have no doubt that you will give her the best quality of life she can have, and that you will manage to keep her life as happy and fulfilling as it has been so far.


----------



## Laurelin

Thank you so much both of you. We had a great hike yesterday for a couple of hours. It was good to focus on what she can do- whcih is hike and play and run in cooler weather. Taking it a day at a time. She is very happy right now. 

Agility news: Summer and I trial TOMORROW and we've never seen a hoop. Whoops. 

There's a fun run prior but I wasn't planning on entering as little old dog can get tired after a few runs. But maybe I should so she could see the hoop? Fun run is 3-5 and trial at 5:30. I think I need to be there at 3 to check in anyways.

Also saturday she's probably going to be the last run- jumpers is last in the day and they're going tall to small. So she's jumping 4 as a vet so should be last? Trial days are long for her since she settles poorly. Her other class on saturday is in the AM. How to get her to rest between the AM classes and the late late late PM one?


----------



## MrsBoats

Don't sweat tomorrow and don't sweat not seeing a hoop...almost every agility dog does something squirrely in their novice runs (especially their debut in novice.) You'll be fine no matter what and have fun. 

Editing to add about getting her to rest...do you have a crate you can bring for her to chill?? If you do...bring it and bring a sheet where you can cover her like a bird in a cage. That helps with getting dogs to settle.


----------



## Laurelin

The covering doesn't work so well though recently she has been settling in class (you know.... since we decided to put a stop to the maniac barking). I have not tested this at a trial yet. I'm hopeful it has translated well. At least Friday I won't have Mia with me so that will be a good test. Mia's coming with on Saturday just to hang out since I'll be there the entire day.

So far we've only done USDAA. She Q'd her first runs there so she has a lot to live up to in NADAC. lol


----------



## MrsBoats

LOL!! If you Q'd in USDAA, you'll Q in NADAC jumpers. NADAC courses tend to run on the easy/simple side. USDAA jumpers in starters is like AKC open JWW.


----------



## Laurelin

I didn't know that! We jumped right in to USDAA (p1 haven't tried veterans with her since it's masters level yikes!). She did great. Our last trial she was very off for some reason. Practice has been fantastic recently so I'm hoping she was just off that weekend. Either way I'm excited about a day with my little old dog!


----------



## MrsBoats

This is NADAC Novice jumpers...you'll be fine!


----------



## Laurelin

Woohoo! Look at him go!


----------



## elrohwen

Watson became a flight risk in yesterday's class. He had been doing so well too! It was a tunnel to a jump, and sort of pointing to other dogs on the exit of the tunnel, which was too much for him. I already lose so much connection in a tunnel anyway and just pray I can get him back afterward. Plus the dogs in this class are still new to him. What a brat dog. He runs up to them and sniffs some butts, then takes off around the ring, generally stopping to mark something. In early classes the instructor would hold a spray bottle (no need to spray him) and it really helped, so we might need to do that again next time. I know some people think an aversive like that in agility is the worst thing on the planet, but it works for him and I like that we can prevent his running away and instill successful habits. I feel like I'm putting pennies in a jar every time he stays with me, and I take out a quarter every time he runs off. If it takes somebody holding a spray bottle once every 5 classes while he's learning, I'm ok with that.

Also, he got a target on his back with the male Aussie in our class. The dog kept staring at Watson and the owner thought he wanted to play. But then the dog took off after us while we were going outside for a potty break and the aussie actually opened the huge heavy sliding arena door to get out to us. He's a nice dog and I don't think he really had any ill intentions (unlike the bouvier in our previous class), but I'm not sure. The owner did say "Oh, is your dog intact? That explains it." I made sure to stay out of his sight during runs. Luckily, though Watson did approach him off leash, he just sniffed his butt and moved on - he may be a rude greeter, and be a target for neutered dogs, but at least he doesn't try to start anything with these dogs. He even approached the bouvier once, who really didn't like him, and just sniffed his butt and moved on.

In other news, I successfully did a front cross! It was hard, because he's an iffy jumper as it is and me turning my body pulled him off of the jump the first time, but we figured it out. Except for the running away he's a pretty easy dog to learn with because he goes at my speed. The little Aussie girl in our class is nuts, and her owner can't handle fast enough to tell her where to go, so the dog just runs circles around her. She's one of those dogs who would be a dream for an experienced person, but is tough for a newbie. She's fun to watch though and is going to be so good once they figure things out.


----------



## CptJack

You know, the one thing I have really come to appreciate about agility is that no matter what level people are working at -

They're working with dogs, dogs are unpredictable and stupid, ridiculous, stuff happens and mistakes are made and _nobody really cares_. 

I tend to be utterly uncompetitive, but also an utter perfectionist with a deep horror of being embarrassed. Agility's slowly, slowly, teaching me to just laugh and move on, because they all act like idiots sometimes and there is nothing that hasn't been seen and done before. I'm hoping I can keep my brain there when we actually get back in classes, because to be honest my biggest issue is that I tend to flatten Kylie by trying to keep too much control over her. I was pretty good about hyping her up last session (and why we managed to do well in the distance handling competition). I really, really need to keep that.

And the ability to snicker, shrug, and laugh when she does something goofy.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> You know, the one thing I have really come to appreciate about agility is that no matter what level people are working at -
> 
> They're working with dogs, dogs are unpredictable and stupid, ridiculous, stuff happens and mistakes are made and _nobody really cares_.
> 
> I tend to be utterly uncompetitive, but also an utter perfectionist with a deep horror of being embarrassed. Agility's slowly, slowly, teaching me to just laugh and move on, because they all act like idiots sometimes and isn't nothing that hasn't been seen and done before. I'm hoping I can keep my brain there when we actually get back in classes, because to be honest my biggest issue is that I tend to flatten Kylie by trying to keep too much control over her. I was pretty good about hyping her up last session (and why we managed to do well in the distance handling competition). I really, really need to keep that.
> 
> And the ability to snicker, shrug, and laugh when she does something goofy.


My ability to laugh at my idiot dog running away falls short the second or third time he does it. Haha. Especially because it's not like a random act of "whee!" - it's turning into a pattern that will haunt us. I'm sure other people find it hilarious though! I know I find it funny when their dogs do ridiculous things, even though they are probably frustrated. We could all learn to laugh at ourselves a bit more.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> My ability to laugh at my idiot dog running away falls short the second or third time he does it. Haha. I'm sure other people find it hilarious though! I know I find it funny when their dogs do ridiculous things, even though they are probably frustrated. We could all learn to laugh at ourselves a bit more.


I spend time watching high level competition agility bloopers. It really improves my sense of humor about it. I mean, at least I know it's NOT JUST ME and we're in good company.

I wasn't poking at you though, I promise. I just... I have to let it go. I want to be able to do at least a couple of classes with Thud, and ain't no way I can do that without the capacity to laugh at myself because he's going to humiliate me - badly, and I can see it from here. Kylie's the real issue. I legitimately have the ability to suck the fun out of this for her with micromanaging, and I'm doing this for her! 

Thud needs micromanaged, watched, babysat, and to learn control. Kylie doesn't need any of that, but for whatever reason - My inclination in class is to demand perfection and she responds to that by being serious and to my fear of losing control of her (has never happened) by not being willing to move away from me. Last class session was the eyeopener for me, that if I can bounce and push and play and get her all riled up she WILL drive away from me and will still do what I'm asking of her. But if I'm being all nervous and uptight, she's not getting off my heels and *she* is nervous and uptight, you know?

And it's been an issue with me from day, oh, 1. I just have to keep putting action to that knowledge.


----------



## Kathyy

I am so concerned about zoomies with Ginger as she is a little buzz saw when she is worried about other dogs. 

Last night the teacher was discussing the course [11 obstacles!!] we did and Ginger sat and listened off leash in perfect control and moving along nicely. I was leaving her at the table for a 1.5 jump lead and she was doing it. The baby dachshund was back and much calmer and when she barked at Ginger Ginger ignored her! 

I had planned to take her to the dog park to let her run for 1/2 hour before class but it was closed so we went for a 1/2 hour hike instead. Helped me too as it was switchbacks up to the top of a ridge which loosened me up nicely and I was able to run with her and even do one pretty good front cross although the other attempt was a mess.


----------



## CptJack

This is a bit random, but reading other people's posts here has made me curious:

What was the order that things were taught in your classes? 

Because we have done front, back, and blind crosses, but introductions to obstacles has been really minimal. We've done contacts (2o2o) by luring the dog onto the table and side of the a-frame and introducing them to the position and rewarding them there. We've done low jumps and a tunnel. Dogs ran the a-frame in my make-up/extra class, but not the regular class. Otherwise, obstacle introduction has been really, really minimal. But we've learned a whole lot of handling - like I said, all the crosses, directional cues and distance work with the directional cues. Also fast downs, and deliberately worked on working through distractions (food, other dogs, people milling around).

But to this point it's been mostly flat work. Next class is all the equipment and building to standard heights ON the equipment, but the first couple are just heavy, heavy, heavy on handling skills (which I appreciate because I suck) and attention.


----------



## elrohwen

We started on equipment pretty early, but it wasn't *just* equipment. A nice balance I think. The very beginner classes had almost no equipment and were about going through things and around a jump standard, driving towards a target on the ground, recall to side, and intro to 2o2o with basically just a ramp. That class was 6 weeks.

After that is advanced beginner which tends to vary in ability level (people take it multiple times), so we've done different things. One class might be mostly learning the teeter, and the next might be jump-tunnel-jump type short sequences. The sequences always have some greater purpose of teaching the dogs to jump, or teaching handling skills, or something - it's not just aim the dogs at the jump and see if you can get through it. The exact instructions are often modified for individuals and where they are at. Sometimes there is an A-frame or dog walk thrown in to work on 2o2o, but we don't drill that repeatedly (we are to the point of being hands off, but using a target at the bottom to stop the dog in position, then reward). I've done a front cross once and a rear cross once. We've gone over the basic move and luring/handling it kind of in place on the flat, but we've only done it for real with jumps while running once.

The progression is basically to teach some very basic foundations, then some simple equipment skills, like going over a low jump, and then build handling skills onto that using the equipment. It does mean that the dogs have to be off leash quite early, because you can't be jumping and doing a front cross on leash. That has been our biggest challenge, obviously, but I think confronting that sooner rather than later has been good for us. I mean, he did obedience for a full year (including off leash recalls from a stay), so I don't think more on leash training was going to get us anywhere with off leash reliability. I have heard others talk about classes where they were working on leash for a couple months.

One thing we haven't worked on at all is sit/down/stay. Some of the dogs seem to start in agility as puppies and only work on agility, and they lack in those behaviors. I don't lead out with Watson (because he might run off), but I have no doubt that he would hold a stay in front of a jump as long as I asked (he would just run away after the release  )


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, I forgot the driving toward a target. That was introduced probably first session, if I remember right, and we were off leash when working with the dogs from go, too. 

There was no basic sit/down/stay (those and a good recall were the pre-reqs). We were off leash from go, too (when it was our turn - on leash between runs, mostly) but things like recalling past and over food and other dogs going the opposite direction - or staying while that was going on - throw a toy past the dog and have them hold it, other dogs milling around, whatever. The down is a specific HIT THE GROUND RIGHT NOW FAST AS YOU CAN for the table. Otherwise, equipment introduction was - well basically seemed to be so we could do the crosses and learn them. Like using various ones to collect out of the tunnel and send the dog on over the jump, and entering the jump from different angles. Or get the dog past one end of the tunnel and into the 'proper' one. 

Should be interesting to see how the rest of the equipment introduction goes.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I wasn't poking at you though, I promise. I just... I have to let it go. I want to be able to do at least a couple of classes with Thud, and ain't no way I can do that without the capacity to laugh at myself because he's going to humiliate me - badly, and I can see it from here. Kylie's the real issue. I legitimately have the ability to suck the fun out of this for her with micromanaging, and I'm doing this for her!


Yeah, I know what you mean. And I know you weren't poking at me. 

Some days I'm good at laughing, because he does silly things, and acts like an idiot, and there's nothing to do but laugh. Other days I just wish he would grow up and stop running away from me. Do other silly things, just stop leaving me while we're in the middle of something. I keep reminding myself that he's come a long way even since November, and he never would have been able to stick with me even 6 months ago, but I do worry that this will always be a problem. I would like to at least try to compete in obedience/rally/agility, but to get beyond the basic levels you need a dog who isn't going to run away from you.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> There was no basic sit/down/stay (those and a good recall were the pre-reqs). We were off leash from go, too (when it was our turn - on leash between runs, mostly) but things like recalling past and over food and other dogs going the opposite direction - or staying while that was going on - throw a toy past the dog and have them hold it, other dogs milling around, whatever. The down is a specific HIT THE GROUND RIGHT NOW FAST AS YOU CAN for the table. Otherwise, equipment introduction was - well basically seemed to be so we could do the crosses and learn them. Like using various ones to collect out of the tunnel and send the dog on over the jump, and entering the jump from different angles. Or get the dog past one end of the tunnel and into the 'proper' one.


That's pretty similar to what we do most days. There are days where we focus on weaves a little, or the teeter, or A-frame, but 75% of class is handling skills with jumps and tunnels. At least with Watson, a lot of time was spent getting him to go over the jumps at all, and not to run away from me, so it was hard to focus on real handling skills. The class I'm in now has people right out of beginners (I'm in it for the second time) which is why we haven't focused on too much serious handling, because just getting through jump-tunnel-jump can be challenging to different teams for various reasons. 

We haven't practiced formal recalls, but other dogs are around (on leash) while you're running, so that practice is built in. You can't progress to intermediate without a solid recall.


----------



## Laurelin

Well day 1 went well. No Qs but I'm still very very happy with it. My trainer got video but I don't have it yet. 

We just had 2 Touch n Go runs. It's interesting.... the course was the same for masters, open, and novice. Is that typical? My trainer who is running masters said our second course was really hard.

I was also surprised that there's no veterans class for non jumping events. So Summer didn't get any extra time (not that we needed it. We were well under it even with a fumble in each run). But it seemed weird that vets get extra time on jumping courses but not on regular courses? 

I also FINALLY figured out the proficient vs skilled thing. That's confusing. Anyways, we were the only proficient in our height, everyone else was skilled! So we had faster course times and couldn't make any errors. If I'd known that I'd have run her skilled and we would have Q'd. Oh well.

Our first run was perfect save a missed dogwalk- EXACT same thing that got us last trial. I got to rewatch and I think it's a combo of her going WHEEEEE YAYYYY AGILITY! and me not being good at cuing it. We also missed a tunnel/A-frame discrimination. Second run went fabulous. Except for the fact that Lauren ran the wrong course at the end. Whoops! My trainer said it was a gorgeous run... except I ran the wrong course. That's the second tme I've done that. We also missed another tunnel/dog walk discrimination. We need to work those, haven't visited them in a while. I guess it's a GOOD thing because she hated tunnels previously, lol.

Also, this trial is FULL of papillons! Everywhere! Maybe the most populous breed there. So weird, we've always been the only pap!

And probably most important- Summer settled in her crate! One minor barking fit then she settled in and relaxed some. She also ran very happy and focused and had a lot of fun. Very happy even though no Qs. We did get a third place which actually meant something since there were so many dogs running in the short dog class. I had a lot of fun too. There's 3 of my classmates starting to trial too so it's great to see the teams start to compete.


----------



## Laurelin

Also, OMG no course maps handed out!? What is this!?

I swear that's why I ran off course. I need to draw out my plan to remember it. Plus we were the dead last novice dog to run both times.

The hoops went just fine. I said go and she went!


----------



## So Cavalier

> Also, OMG no course maps handed out!? What is this!?


NADAC judges don't design their own courses. The courses are designed by a group of NADAC designers. As it was explained to me, NADAC has designated different regions. Each course can only be used once in each region. Once each course has been used in all regions, it is "retired" and can't be used again. I am guessing that they don't provide course maps so that other regions can't study them. I don't remember when they stopped providing maps but when we first started trialing, they used to give out maps. NADAC has changed quite a bit since we first started trialing.


----------



## So Cavalier

> What was the order that things were taught in your classes?


I have started training fluffy white dog. I am with a group of mostly puppies. We pretty much all started together. We began with basic proprioception and body awareness and started gradually adding obstacles. I don't remember exactly but I think we started with tunnels. We have been exposed to all the obstacles at this point with the exception of weave poles. None are at full height and the chute is not collapsed. We have introduced front crosses and began rear crosses last week. We are working on start line stays. Since this is a "puppy class", we are nowhere close to jumping anything but "bumps". We did a jump to A frame sequence in one class. There are about half experienced handlers and half novice handlers in our group. Now that Daylight Savings time has begun, we are now working in daylight and not on a lighted field. It makes a huge difference. No scary shadows.


----------



## Kyllobernese

When I started with Remmy, there were no classes with an Instructor, just went ahead and used the equipment. Consequently I made lots of errors with Remmy particularly in directing him. Despite that he went through his Starters Standard and Jumpers in seven trials and moved into Advanced. We did not do badly in Advanced but my lack of training in directing him was starting to show up. He is in Masters in Standard now and just needs two Snookers to be in Masters Games. What has happened with him, is because I was not giving him very good direction, he has started to take it on himself and we get at least one zoomie class at every trial, usually always the first class. I don't get upset at him as I know he is not going to listen and it certainly amuses everybody else as he is so enjoying himself.

I finally started taking classes with a good instructor and we have been working on me, Remmy knows how to do everything even at a great distance. When I started with Lucy, I started her in the Foundation agility as I did not want to make the same mistake with her that I did with Remmy. I often think how great Remmy would have been with the proper foundation but we have fun and he loves Agility.


----------



## So Cavalier

> When I started with Lucy, I started her in the Foundation agility as I did not want to make the same mistake with her that I did with Remmy. I often think how great Remmy would have been with the proper foundation but we have fun and he loves Agility.


Oh yes, this! There is a huge difference in the way my little girl, Gemma, was trained vs how fluffy white dog, Baxter is being trained. Even though I am still with the same excellent trainer and I believe Gemma was trained using the best methods available at the time, the sport and training has changed so much in the past 8 years that I have been actively involved. There is whole lot more emphasis on foundation and handling skills than when I first started. Gemma learned to weave using guide wires. Baxter will learn 2X2. It is amazing that at a younger age, he is much more focused. Gemma was the queen of the zoomies. I wouldn't trial for a long time because she was such a nut. I was finally "forced" into competing by my classmates who told me not to worry, there were a lot of zoomies at trials. Gemma is an excellent agility dog despite being my partner which is really her greatest handicap. I do find that I am less hesitant with fluffy white dog and more comfortable in testing his abilities. My trainer lets me move a little ahead because he is so fearless and eager. We will be starting weave poles soon. I will be investing in a set of 2x2s.


----------



## Laurelin

Well overall we had a great trial. 0 Qs. It's funny how pleased I am with this trial considering it's our only trial with no Qs but still. It was WAY better than our last trial even though we Qd there once. I feel like we've figured a lot out nicely and our non Qs were stupid, fixable stuff. I ended up entering some more runs today day of just because and while no Qs they were happy, fun runs. 

The best thing is the settling in her crate. She is doing fabulous and it is making a world of difference in her energy level throughout the day. I was really getting worried she just didn't have the stamina for trials but it turns out if she sleeps during the trial instead of bouncing and barking the entire time, she doesn't have that problem! Her last run of the trial, jumpers, was her fastest of the whole thing!

And speaking of that jumpers run... It was FABULOUS. So great. She did her blind crosses and the serpentine just wonderfully. It was flowing spectacularly and she was running at her fastest. And then we made the home stretch of three jumps. It went *jump* *Jump* "Jump in the bar setter's lap and give kisses*. Yeah... we ended up eliminated but everyone laughed. So that's good right? LOL 

I would get the video but I'm too tired.  I only videod our tunnelers, which was the worst run by FAR. 

I also took video of them in their crates not making any noise. Haha. Just for proof. I had to ask my trainer halfway through today, "Do you hear my dogs?' 'I don't hear anything.' 'I know! Isn't that incredible!'


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have found over the years that some of my best runs were ones I did not Q in for some small mistake. (usually by me) Sounds great that yours did so well in the crate. Remmy still gets excited and he has quite the scream (never a bark) so I usually just leave him in my RV till it is time to run and he goes to sleep.


----------



## SDRRanger

Just got back from our agility class of the week. We did some new things (like try out the crawl half tunnel and one-jump work) and did the basics too. Ranger still has a hard time looking forward over the cavaletti and away from me, but we worked on me staying behind him or ahead while the instructor held his lead. Seems when he isn't beside me he has an easier time not trying to obedience heel (even though we've never even practiced an obedience heel lol). 

Also worked on nose targeting to our dish at the bottom of a baby ramp. Exuberant Ranger exploded onto it the first couple times sliding off the side (and this is from a walk) but by the end was figuring out to use some restraint. 

Worked on our stays in front of a line of jumps and then releasing them. I'm now releasing him with my back to him (watching over my shoulder sneakily) and feeding by my ankle. We're trying to stop him from watching my face so much and not paying attention to where the ground and equipment is. It seems to be helping as we finally put the jumps up (about to his ankle joint) and he waited, released, and jump the three in proper form. 

Stayed after to speak with the instructor and I'm putting in Ranger's name to meet with a chiro. The vet is apparently great and does most of the agility dogs at this centre. We're not seeing any lameness, but Ranger is a very loose/clumsy dog and with his habit of curling his front paw under in the down we wonder if he might have a little pinch/annoyance in his lower back/hips that might cause problems down the way. 

Also going to start looking to add supplements to his diet for bone, muscle, tendon health...and pet insurance in case something does happen. Figure if we're going to make a real run at agility then we better put forth a good effort on all fronts.


----------



## CptJack

So, looks like the session after this one (which doesn't even start until the 1st) is where Foundations and Kylie's agility class line up so they're back to back. That means, technically, that's the point I should get Thud in there. I know he has the attention span and obedience skills NOW that are on par with most of the dogs that were in Kylie's foundation class, and he will have a 7 week obedience class to get used to the facility and working around other dogs and distractions. There's also very limited, very low jumps so being under 2 isn't really a deterrent for this particular class.

I just need to decide if I'm going to do it or if I'm just going to go ahead to Obed. 2 with him in the session following this one. I mean eventually, yeah, because in order to keep him in classes as long as I'd like to, I'm going to have to scoop up some of the sport's classes. Just like to keep Kylie in some kind of training environment, I'm going to have to pick up the basic obedience classes, in spite of there being very, very few things she needs to learn from them (though they do cover some stuff I'd like to pick up with her, like out of sight stays and off leash heeling). 

And writing all of this out, I think most of my lack of enthusiasm is that working with Thud feels less like team work and more like a wrestling match. Either one of those classes should help in that regard, so I guess I'm signing up for it and we'll just see how it goes.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

BLAH had one of the best runs ever, and Kimma got spooked by the judge walking behind her. Not really directly behind, but close enough where she noticed and blew by a jump because she turned to look. I saw other dogs get spooked by the path the judge took, as well. At first I thought I didn't cue her early enough, but my instructor was watching us and said it was because of the judge. She's never even paid attention to the judge/ring crew before. Now we have one more thing to work on. I swear it's never ending with this fearful little girly.

At least we had a nice, clean JWW run, and Jari was able to go inside the building without being super freaked out and reactive. Silver lining and all of that...

But STILL. It would have been 15 MACH points, which is a big deal for us


----------



## Laurelin

Here is tiny old dog tunnelers.  I wish I would have picked a better run to video but oh well. I'm hoping I get the video of the touch n go runs from my trainer. They were much better.






It's slow but not as slow as I remember. When she's really running her tail is down. She's one happy old girly though. <3

Obnoxious background dog is Mia. lol Don't know why the video is tiny.


----------



## SDRRanger

Laurelin said:


> Here is tiny old dog tunnelers.  I wish I would have picked a better run to video but oh well. I'm hoping I get the video of the touch n go runs from my trainer. They were much better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's slow but not as slow as I remember. When she's really running her tail is down. She's one happy old girly though. <3
> 
> Obnoxious background dog is Mia. lol Don't know why the video is tiny.



Oh god, Ranger would love that...tunnels everywhere! I doubt I would be able to keep up though haha. 

She looks like she was having a great time.


----------



## elrohwen

Yay Lauren and Summer! 

I'm impressed that you could remember a course like that full of just tunnels. Haha


----------



## Laurelin

And I was dead last too so I had to sit through all the other dogs running first. On Friday I totally blanked in the middle of our course and ran the wrong thing. Haha


----------



## kadylady

Congratulations to Laurelin and Summer and Finkie_Mom on your successes this weekend!

I don't even know where to start for our weekend, I'm still on cloud nine trying to wrap my head around everything!

We did a Rally trial Friday, Zoey's first and she picked up her first AKC Novice leg with a really fabulous performance and pretty much set the tone for the rest of the weekend.

We did 2 full days (5 runs per day) of CPE agility Saturday and Sunday. LONG LONG LONG days, 16 hours on Saturday and 13 hours on Sunday (including 2 hrs of drive time each day). I am EXHAUSTED but thrilled beyond belief with how everything went. Zoey Q'd in 9 out of 10 classes! And every Q was a clean run, no faults! Recap of the highlights:

- She was so confident in the ring. Only 1 time did she even think about visiting a bar setter and she didn't, came right back to focus. No sniffing or wandering in the ring at all. Totally relaxed and focused.
- She was fast! Faster than she's ever been in a trial and I think that is due to her increased confidence. We have trialed at this facility 3 times now and I think she is finally comfortable there.
- She got her weaves every time and she got her contacts all but once (we have been doing lots of 2o2o contact work lately).
- She had no tunnel hesitation!! She's not always a fan of tunnels and is usually slow going into them or will try to go around them sometimes. She sent fabulously every time and we had a lot of tunnels this weekend! In our Jackpot run there was a send to the far end of the tunnel during the gamble (where you can't cross a line) and I really had no expectations of getting it and she did perfectly!!
- I handled her well! I did a couple blinds and a couple tricky fronts and while they weren't perfect she read them well and they worked.

Basically I couldn't be happier and prouder of us both right now! Our next trial is in 3 weeks and its our first AKC trial at the same facility and I am feeling so much better about it now.

Here's a couple videos (didn't get any Saturday videos) and the post weekend ribbon picture:

Sunday Jumpers Level 3





Sunday Standard Level 2





Sunday Fullhouse Level 1 (last class of the weekend and she's flying!)


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady, that's fantastic! She looks so proud with all of her ribbons.


----------



## Laurelin

Awesome haul! I want big ribbons, all ours have been small so far.

I know... it's the important things lol.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Awesome haul! I want big ribbons, all ours have been small so far.
> 
> I know... it's the important things lol.


I got big fancy ribbons for "Best of Winners" at a show a few weekends ago, instead of the standard tiny conformation ribbons. I was way more excited about it than I probably should have been. They're just a rosette thing with one ribbon hanging off of it, so not even that nice, but they make me happy.


----------



## Sibe

My husband jokes that ribbons are like crack for agility people. 

Denali and I are still out. Her pad is almost fully healed, so I want to give it another couple weeks at least.


----------



## SDRRanger

Congrats on the haul KadyLady. 

When I showed horses I always loved getting the big rosettes for champion/reserve. Although one of my favourites was a small flat ribbon that I got with my boy after a lengthy illness. There are all kinds of cool things you can do with flat ribbons too, like wall hangings.


----------



## elrohwen

SDRRanger said:


> Congrats on the haul KadyLady.
> 
> When I showed horses I always loved getting the big rosettes for champion/reserve. Although one of my favourites was a small flat ribbon that I got with my boy after a lengthy illness. There are all kinds of cool things you can do with flat ribbons too, like wall hangings.


That reminds me of this picture. Cracks me up every time:









We have a ton of flat ribbons for conformation (I end up with 2-3 per day of a show typically). Right now I have them rolled up in a mason jar, just to keep them together. I'm not sure if I want to do anything with them.


----------



## kadylady

Thanks all!! 

Yeah CPE has big ribbons. Luke got a huge one at the AKC Rally trial, put the tiny UKC ones to shame lol 

I have boxes upon boxes of horse show ribbons. When I was a kid I practically wall papered my room with them! Going to have to figure out something fun to do with all these, the dogs are all sitting in a pile in my office/spare bedroom right now until I figure out what to do with them.


----------



## GrinningDog

Awesome job, kadylady and Zoey!


----------



## SDRRanger

Here are some of the things that I've seen friends do with ribbons (pics just found online randomly)



















This one uses a horse blanket rack: 




































And for the VERY artistic


----------



## Laurelin

Here's more little old dog agility. Considering we didn't get started till she was 8, I'm super proud of how far she's come. We will never be the most impressive team but she has fun and she tries her little heart out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_7350iDsZ4&feature=youtu.be

She just makes me smile. So much.


----------



## Tashapaws

Laurelin, kadylady, congratulations! 


I'm truly happy today. It's our fifth agility class and this has been the best so far. Natasha has ran most of her courses off-leash (there weren't other dogs apart from the class, and she ignored those most of the time, yay!), and she's done most of them really well. She's not running at full speed, and sometimes distracted, but I'm truly proud of her. She's also gotten over her fear of the tether, and even went into it off-leash. Also, starting to get the hang of weave poles. 
There will be an agility competition in a couple of months, and we'll probably enter in the pre-agility (in which you aren't judged, but watched by a lot of people and the judge, it's mainly for handlers to get over their nerves). Now I can believe we can cause a good impression


----------



## GrinningDog

Has anyone owned or seen a dog that fixates on and "attacks" an agility obstacle during downtime on the course? 

This is a minor issue we're working on with Gypsy. The problem occurs if I'm distracted (e.g. talking with the instructor) and don't immediately put her into a down-stay after a run or allow her to wander at all. She'll run up to the hoop jump, wherever it is, and bite it! I really don't know WHY she does it, and it's making solving the issue difficult. She has, way in the past, bitten at the weaves and the regular jumps a few times, but now it's just the hoop jump and it's a thing. We've introduced a tug rope instead of treats during practice, and that seems to have helped lessen the behavior somehow. I've also gotten very good at interrupting the behavior before she bites. But still, the other day, I was talking to the instructor and Gypsy sauntered over the A-frame on her own, then walked straight to the hoop jump and bit it. o.o She'll still do the hoop jump without issue during a run. It's almost like she's frustrated or riled up and takes it out on the jump. She's LOVES agility, and is VERY high energy and drive.

Any thoughts on WHY she does this? Suggestions to fix the problem?


----------



## elrohwen

It's not really the same thing, but when Watson gets over stimulated he gets bitey. Typically he'll make grabs at the leash, though at home he'll run around biting and hands clothes. Redirecting to an appropriate tug toy (or using the leash as one if it's the right type of leash) helps him get that excess energy out of his system. I don't know if he and Gypsy are doing those things for the same reason though.

Personally, I would just be totally on top of her in class - don't give her the chance to run off and do anything you didn't direct her to do. Use a leash if necessary. I'm probably more sensitive about this because I have a dog who looooves to run off and be a nut in agility class, but I think it benefits everybody. I see people in my classes with dogs who generally stay close and they get less and less vigilant about what the dog is doing after an exercise and it often ends in the dog taking obstacles on their own, or doing something else inappropriate.


----------



## Laurelin

Mia bites trees when she's over stimulated. Wonder if it's a similar thing. It's just soooo exciting and something to redirect onto. I think it began out of frustration when chasing a squirrel a long long time ago and has been ritualized and is very self rewarding to her. She will scream then jump up and start biting frantically at trees and pull the bark off of them. She will also bite other dogs if they're in the vicinity and she gets to that state. With her it's an ongoing thing of just managing her overarousal and keeping her head on as well as giving her something else to do. But it's not something I've managed to 'fix' as in I don't have to stay on top of it every time she goes outside. It's been something that we practice self control with every single day. For a long time I just kind of let it be since it didn't bother me that much but once I cracked down to work on it the behavior has become a lot nicer. Also noticed it got worse when our tree got chopped down and Summer started taking the brunt of the redirection... Still have to enforce my rules though because if I don't tell her the alternative good behavior, she's going to scream and bite either Summer or the trees. 

A lot of BCs I know have biting problems when they get overstimmed and also frustrated too. 

I'd do something similar with Gypsy- give her something else to do and focus on. Then reward and give her a good outlet to get that biting out of her system.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Yay Zoey!! You guys look awesome. Love the ribbon picture!

Summer is seriously the cutest dog. She just looks like she's having the best time <3


----------



## MrsBoats

Ocean got to play some NADAC agility this weekend and tried his hand at some open classes. He blew the doors off of his first attempt at Open Tunnelers with his first Q at 6.58 yards/second! He was the third fastest dog out of all the Tunnelers classes (Elite, Open, and Novice.) 










He also earned his Novice Jumpers title with another nice and fast run:










Sunday, Ocean got his 2nd Open Tunnelers Q! It was a little hairy a couple of spots because he doesn't understand tunnelers handling shorthand like Lars does. LOL Despite overshooting two tunnels and correcting them, it was still a 5 yards per second run...Little Mr. O was movin'!










I did move him up to Open Jumpers and we had a blast. He had one little wheeeeeee (AKA baby dog brain farts) moment at the beginning. He ran past me and took an off course jump and dropped that off course bar when I called his name. The rest of it was a load of fun to handle and he listened so well. Front crosses all over that course! What a good, good boy O!!

(I saw someone wondered how one remembers a tunnelers course. I'll share how I remember a course while running a 6.5 YPS dog and you do not have time to think...colors. I remember the order of the tunnel colors. Purple, purple, clear, blue, yellow, orange, orange, etc.)


----------



## SDRRanger

wow, you guys had a good time MrsBoats  How fast were you moving?


----------



## Tashapaws

I'm really happy with Natasha today. I think she's starting to concentrate on doing agility, there were many more dogs than last class and she did even better, she ran the first circuits quite fast and centered, and then she slowed down a little, but I can understand it. Most of our class today was off-leash, in fact I only leashed her for the times we were waiting our turn. She's advancing in giant steps, she gets everything quite quickly. We're not into the very difficult stuff yet, but for the basics I believe we're in the right track


----------



## CptJack

Class started again tonight.

There are four other dogs in the class 3 from the previous one (the golden, the doodle, the BC) and one new, medium mutt. I get the feeling shit just got real and things are going to move fast from here - and not just because it's a tiny class. This class is all the obstacles (except weaves, which is a separate class), moves all of them to regulation height in 7 weeks. We also went from largely handling and flatwork focus to 'here are six obstacles, two your dogs have never laid eyes on before: GO'.

Yeah.

Mostly, Kylie did fine. She was a little harebrained, but so were ALL the dogs, including the super-star golden with the already competing handler. They were just all over, I guess after the gap. The biggest two issues are that she really needs to slow down on the a-frame (trainer said she'd never seen a dog that little go that hard at it) but it's being worked on and that she's randomly decided that she absolutely LOATHES the tunnel. I should probably buy one so I can work on it more than once a week.

*ETA:* I am weak when I am tired. Tunnel obtained. It'll be here within the next week or so.


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> *ETA:* Never mind, I am weak when I am tired. Tunnel obtained.


Hahahaha, just remember you ordered it.


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> Hahahaha, just remember you ordered it.


Well, if I forget it'll be a really pleasant surprise when it shows up? It was only about 40.00, shipped (it's not a good one, but it's the right diameter and collapses), so it won't kill my back account too hard.


----------



## Kathyy

I love my cheap tunnel and the dogs love it too. Ginger wasn't a fan at first as I was out of sight and she didn't think that was a good idea.

Last week we learned how to use a jackpot toy. Ginger now loves mine. She wouldn't touch it before the instructor showed the dogs how much fun they were. What a stinker she can be. *I* know nothing, teacher knows everything. Grr.

Another instructor showed how to train 2o2o contact and I have been working it at home. I realized I have the perfect equipment for practicing this at home - Treat&Train and pet ramp. Ginger loves any reason to play with the T&T. We have been running the dogwalk without stopping and gone over a low A frame and banged the teeter in class but that is it so far. Never did running of the contact obstacles then put a stop on the performance, not sure how it is done.


----------



## CptJack

Kathyy said:


> I love my cheap tunnel and the dogs love it too. Ginger wasn't a fan at first as I was out of sight and she didn't think that was a good idea.
> 
> Last week we learned how to use a jackpot toy. Ginger now loves mine. She wouldn't touch it before the instructor showed the dogs how much fun they were. What a stinker she can be. *I* know nothing, teacher knows everything. Grr.
> 
> Another instructor showed how to train 2o2o contact and I have been working it at home. I realized I have the perfect equipment for practicing this at home - Treat&Train and pet ramp. Ginger loves any reason to play with the T&T. We have been running the dogwalk without stopping and gone over a low A frame and banged the teeter in class but that is it so far. Never did running of the contact obstacles then put a stop on the performance, not sure how it is done.



In our class they trained the 2o2o, as a separate thing - trained it, treated it, and even put a command to it. Then simply added the obstacle. So it's sort of a chain of commands and chained behavior. "Climb (for the A-frame), Tat (2o2o), and GO (next obstacle indicated by handler). It's rapidly becoming habit for the dogs to stop there AND look to the handler for where to go next, since agility courses never end on a contact. So basically the behavior's being chained into one action for the dogs.

I am 900% sure having an agility tunnel at home will make a world of difference for Kylie. Her issue is DEFINITELY not being able to see me, but it's also just that she... doesn't get what's being asked of her. It's almost like she doesn't recognize the tunnel is a 'thing'. I'm going to do some work myself and get it on a command and I think she'll come around pretty fast. Might take a week or so to work up to the U we're using in class, but she'll get it.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey has never been a huge fan of tunnels (which has its pros and cons... no "tunnel sucking" issues like some dogs, but it would be nice to have a more solid/consistent send to the tunnels so I can get to where I need to be). She is mostly just inconsistent with them. Sometimes she will try every other option first (around, over, around the other side) before finally going in. Other times she will go about halfway and come back out the end. And other times she will drive right into them. I have been working on it by A) treating her at the end of tunnels and B) supporting her more into them and all the way through them. She knows "go" means keep going the way you are headed so I give the tunnel command and once she's in I might say go go go while she is in. That way she knows that A) she is heading in the right direction and B) she knows where I am even though she can't see me. It's helping. Our last trial she drove to all of the tunnels more than she ever has, including a tunnel in the gamble (distance challenge) where I couldn't support her physically like I usually have to.

I also just bought a cheap tunnel for home to continue building on this.

We are working on 2o2o as well right now, pretty much the same way CptJack explained. When we introduced the equipment in my first class we always treated at the end of the contact obstacles even though we weren't expecting a stopped 2o2o. We also used contact trainers (hoops at the end) to discourage the dogs from jumping off the end (Zoey liked to do that). After that first class though people kind of were able to decide on their own what type of contact behavior they wanted and it wasn't super enforced one way or another in the other classes, unless someone was having a problem. I didn't really enforce anything with Zoey until now, I have decided that I definitely want a solid stopped 2o2o with her. So I trained the command on a step stool and the stairs at home, then took that command back to the obstacles. She is doing pretty good with it. The hardest part for her was figuring out that she had to stay in the position until released. We are working on proofing that now. 

We are supposed to start a new class Thursday night called Contacts & Weaves but I'm not sure if she will be able to go. She cut her paw pad Monday night, it's looking a lot better this morning but she has been on crate rest trying to let it heal and I certainly don't want it to go backwards. We have a trial in 10 days so I'm going to baby the heck out of her to get that thing healed.


----------



## SDRRanger

In class this past weekend we did a one jump exercise working on the dogs stepping over it with front and back legs with a treat held a foot out and then brought right into the standard (with us kneeling by the standard on the outside. Ranger is a little draggy with his hind end (we're working on hind end awareness), but I've been thinking about buying a single jump so we have things to work on....apparently there are a million things you can do with one jump.


----------



## Kathyy

That would help Ginger, she doesn't really get the rear end thing yet. There are a million things to do with a single jump. On my own I come up with plenty but know I am missing plenty.

I haven't ever bought a jump and am on my third set of jumps just because I want them to be prettier. I used this sort of design for the first sets. They are sold for cost of materials on various websites but shipping bumps it way up there.
http://www.instantagility.com/2008/04/14/bar-jump-or-hurdle/ 

Do not have a fixed upper jump bar though. I take an end cup and put 4 screws through it into a scrap of wood then saw into 4ths and there are good shallow cups. 

If you use 3/4" PVC for the frame you can use 1/2" PVC just slid through the bottom Ts to keep the jump up so the jump is flat when stored. Not as pretty and a bit wobbly but works and you want the dog to never touch the jump anyway. 

You don't have to glue anything, PVC will stay together for our purposes without it. 

I would buy 1 length of 3/4" for the frame of a 4' wide jump, 1 length of 1/2" for the jump bar and support bit, 4 3/4" Ts, 3 3/4" end caps to make the jump pretty on top and to cut into jump cups which gives you 2 different jump heights. I can use loppers to cut 3/4" PVC so don't need a PVC cutter or wrestle with a saw. You actually don't even need the second T on the bottom and it can be more stable if you just have a tripod jump.

Width of the jump is important too, I didn't realize that before building my first couple of jumps. 4' is fine for small dogs but 5' is better for larger dogs. It is better if it is wider then the length of your dog nose to tip of tail as many times you are asking for turns over jumps. 5' is standard for competition jumps. Mine are 4'.


----------



## elrohwen

We're hopefully going out to buy jump equipment this weekend. Yay! I'm using the plans that Kathyy posted from Instant Agility. Watson is iffy about jumps - I think he just doesn't see distances well and gets unsure, then botches them. Sometimes he'll stop right before the jump and fling himself over, or stutter step, or even run out. My plan is to set up a jump chute as laid out by Suzanne Clothier and really train him to jump. It starts with 5 jumps, but eventually moves up to oxers so I think 8 jumps total should do it. I'd also like to use them as cavaletti. We don't have a fenced in yard so I'm going to use 3ft high temporary garden fencing (the plastic mesh kind with metal stakes) and I just hope he doesn't try to escape once we're working. It would be really nice to set up a little area to practice some simple jumping exercises once we're done with the jump chute.

Watson looooves tunnels. Since the first time he saw one he's never had an issue, even if I'm sending him from a bit of a distance (while jumps I need to be right there helping him). The only issue is that he loses contact with me and engagement when he's in a tunnel, and on the exit if the first thing he sees is other dogs, that's what he's going to aim for. So for that reason I hate tunnels, but he loves them. I'm sure he will have a bit of a tunnel suck problem when he has to make a differentiation, but on a simple course it's not like he's running completely away from me in order to find tunnels.


----------



## kadylady

I bought a jump from the club when we started classes, it was a requirement to have at least one jump to be able to work on homework assignments. There is a ton that you can do with one jump. http://agilitynerd.com/blog/agility/courses/steve/OneJumpDrills.html 

I am now up to 4 jumps, a set of 6 weaves and a tunnel. That's about all I can fit in my backyard and should allow me to be able to practice lots of stuff, anything else I can go to the club for. I have had the weaves and 1 jump in my bedroom all winter long. Can't wait to be able to practice outside, but it is a mud pit right now.

Zoey is not a tunnel sucker, but she is definitely a contact sucker, she has always LOVED the dogwalk and A frame, right from the beginning. And even more now lately since we have been working on reinforcing the 2o2o behavior.


----------



## Kathyy

Right when Max needed to learn to jump an instructor at my school held a mini seminar on Clothier's method and I went through most of the program with Max. Completely worth it. I only have room for 3 jumps at home plus there really is enough of a safe run out at the end so took the jumps to the park. Super fun hauling, setting up and taking down for a 5 minute session but I did it. The really cool thing was it was so boring I started training rear crosses and sending and lead outs and who knows what else at the same time as Max was so patterned to go to the end of the jumps. Great for me too as I ran as much as I could so probably helped my general fitness level.

Max adores the dogwalk, no idea why. It is actually the reason I retired him, he was just looking really wobbly on it and you sure don't want to have your dog wobbly 4' off the ground! 

Going to the agilitynerd site now. Ginger loves jumping but she isn't doing a lot of thinking about it yet.

I sure am having a blast training my little dog. Got Max 13 years ago so it has been a really long time since I got to see a dog turn on to the fun of training.

I have just the 2 jumps [real pretty they are though], 2 sets of 6 poles but one is 20" centers so I don't like it, a 9' tunnel, 2x2' table and an 8' teeter and should never have them all out at the same time. 4 obstacles plus table off to the side is about all my 40x16' yard can hold.


----------



## elrohwen

I'm lucky that I have essentially unlimited space (a small-ish front yard, the "back field" that is about 75'x60', then the "field of dreams" is a full acre, though we've only mowed half). I'm unlucky because none of it is fenced and my dog is not good off leash. I really hope we can work something out with the plastic mesh fencing we got for the garden a couple years ago - I'm sure he could jump the 3' fence, but maybe he won't think about it, or maybe I can make it a little higher somehow. Next time we get a house I'd love a flat fenced in back yard, if only for training purposes!


----------



## CptJack

I'm giving serious thought to using some of this stuff to fence off our 'field of dreams'. It's not a whole acre, and it's not entirely mowed, but it's flat, open, and... unfenced. The fence in the back yard is just not going to work for agility anything; it's mostly on a hill and it's tiny. 400.00 of the slat snow fencing and I can fence in a quarter of an acre with 4ft high fencing. It's not perfect, but it's good enough to work with (with supervision).


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I'm giving serious thought to using some of this stuff to fence off our 'field of dreams'. It's not a whole acre, and it's not entirely mowed, but it's flat, open, and... unfenced. The fence in the back yard is just not going to work for agility anything; it's mostly on a hill and it's tiny. 400.00 of the slat snow fencing and I can fence in a quarter of an acre with 4ft high fencing. It's not perfect, but it's good enough to work with (with supervision).


Oo, that's pretty nice! Do you need to buy stakes to use with it or anything? I'd feel much more comfortable with 4ft of something semi-solid, vs the 3ft plastic fence we have (which he could either jump over or push out underneath). Obviously he would be supervised and we'd be working any time we used the space, but he's a brat and I don't trust him. 

I'm going to check out our options when we go to the store to buy PVC for jumps. Since we have the 3ft stakes, maybe we just need something else, like the fencing you posted, to make it sturdier and taller.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Oo, that's pretty nice! Do you need to buy stakes to use with it or anything? I'd feel much more comfortable with 4ft of something semi-solid, vs the 3ft plastic fence we have (which he could either jump over or push out underneath). Obviously he would be supervised and we'd be working any time we used the space, but he's a brat and I don't trust him.
> 
> I'm going to check out our options when we go to the store to buy PVC for jumps. Since we have the 3ft stakes, maybe we just need something else, like the fencing you posted, to make it sturdier and taller.



Wait, no. I was wrong:

Follow these tips to install your wooden.

T-posts should be placed a maximum of 10 feet apart
Vertical strand of fence should be sandwiched between flat side of T-post and a 1" x 2" wood slat
T-post clips or plastic cable ties can then be used to secure the slat and fence strand to the T-post
To connect fence sections, overlap 2 strand section from each end and weave a 1" x 2" slat through the overlapped strands
Fence should be tensioned by hand only - DO NOT USE MECHANICAL TENSIONERS.

That said? You can use the posts you have with it - it's got enough structure that a foot of spare fence isn't going to fall over.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> That said? You can use the posts you have with it - it's got enough structure that a foot of spare fence isn't going to fall over.


Right, that's exactly what I was thinking. Ok, so I would need probably 100ft to start for the jump chute, and that's still less than $100


----------



## kadylady

One of my agility friends lives in a townhouse with 2 Aussies and she has a flat back yard area but it is not fenced because it is a public shared space. Last summer she bought the plastic mesh fencing with the posts so she could setup a little work area and it worked really well. I went over there a couple times with Zoey so we could work on distractions and being in different places. When she was done she just rolled it up and left it on her back porch. Also, our club hosts outdoor trials twice a year and they are always fenced with the orange snow fence.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> One of my agility friends lives in a townhouse with 2 Aussies and she has a flat back yard area but it is not fenced because it is a public shared space. Last summer she bought the plastic mesh fencing with the posts so she could setup a little work area and it worked really well. I went over there a couple times with Zoey so we could work on distractions and being in different places. When she was done she just rolled it up and left it on her back porch. Also, our club hosts outdoor trials twice a year and they are always fenced with the orange snow fence.


I'm terrified to ever trial outdoors (or do highest level obedience/rally with off leash requirements) with Watson. I guess if he jumped out at a trial he would just run up to someone else's dog and we could grab him. At home, I don't trust that he wouldn't jump out, and then run off like an idiot (probably to harass people on the local walking trail, or chase deer). lol He's weird about fences though and oddly respectful of some that he could jump over, but I'm still not sure. Our agility place has 3ft high fencing (fairly solid) that divides the arena in half and he's occasionally looked at it like he was seriously considering jumping.

He's just not all that engaged yet, especially outdoors, and once he's turned off, he's gone and not responding and just running. One of the big reasons I want to set up some little fenced area is so we can really work on that kind of stuff outside (especially heeling), since it's not the same on a leash or long line.


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> I'm terrified to ever trial outdoors (or do highest level obedience/rally with off leash requirements) with Watson. I guess if he jumped out at a trial he would just run up to someone else's dog and we could grab him. At home, I don't trust that he wouldn't jump out, and then run off like an idiot (probably to harass people on the local walking trail, or chase deer). lol He's weird about fences though and oddly respectful of some that he could jump over, but I'm still not sure. Our agility place has 3ft high fencing (fairly solid) that divides the arena in half and he's occasionally looked at it like he was seriously considering jumping.
> 
> He's just not all that engaged yet, especially outdoors, and once he's turned off, he's gone and not responding and just running. One of the big reasons I want to set up some little fenced area is so we can really work on that kind of stuff outside (especially heeling), since it's not the same on a leash or long line.


Trialing outside was REALLY REALLY hard for Zoey! Granted it was only our second trial, but still, it was way harder than the first. She would do 2-3 obstacles and then get lost in sniffy/looky land, I would get her back, we would do 2-3 more obstacles and then off to wonder land again. I'm actually looking forward to our outdoor trials this year to see what her focus is like with several trials under our belt now. I am going to try and take some jumps out to the lake this summer when we go so that we can at least get some outside practice in (the backyard doesn't really count because its home and its nothing new or exciting to her). The lake is a very exciting place so getting her to want to work there would be great. 

Zoey did jump out of the ring at one of our trials this year. I really think she thought it was a jump, it was white 2ft gating and it was right after out last jump, she just kept going like it was another jump. Scared the crap out of her when everyone jumped up to grab her and she turned and jumped back in.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> Zoey did jump out of the ring at one of our trials this year. I really think she thought it was a jump, it was white 2ft gating and it was right after out last jump, she just kept going like it was another jump. Scared the crap out of her when everyone jumped up to grab her and she turned and jumped back in.


Haha, I could see a dog doing that. "Oh wait, I thought I was supposed to jump that?"

In nosework we've been working off leash lately (indoors) with some 3ft semi-solid barriers. There are ways to escape, but in general the dogs are too busy searching. Some have wandered out (while searching) and their owners just told them to get back in and they did. Well, Watson is in his spring fever "I don't wanna work!" phase and got out of the barrier and took off zooming around the facility. He's such a brat! He definitely gets that "FREEDOM!!!" thing when he realizes he's free sometimes. I worked so hard with him off leash when he was little, but it kind of went out the window with adolescence.

I was actually impressed with him when we went to a fenced in playground area over the winter and he was pretty responsive to me. Not heeling or anything, but he would zoom around and then still come when I called.


----------



## Kyllobernese

All but two of our trials are outdoors. Kiska did great at the indoor trial, getting 3 Q's, one each in Jumpers, Snooker and Gamblers but when we moved outdoors she would just freeze up and not want to do anything. I ended up retiring her as she obviously was not enjoying it.

Can hardly wait for the snow to go so we can start training. We had made a lot of our own equipment, then managed to buy some more last year from someone who was not trialing anymore so have the proper equipment for Kris as some of ours was made for the small dogs. At our Obedience today, they had some equipment set up so got a chance to put Lucy over it. Lucy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese, ran in one trial, her first, last August and had not seen equipment since. She did the Dog walk, A-frame and teeter with a perfect 2o2o. Had to get her to sit stay by the entrance to the Chute and hold the end up for her a couple of times before she remembered how to do it. She was learning the weave poles using the method where they run down between two rows and you gradually close them up so we did not do that as they were not set up for her.

All I have done with Kris so far, is sending her to the table, a couple of tunnels and today she went over the dog walk and over a couple of low jumps. The foundation Agility class did not get enough dogs so I am just slowly introducing her to the equipment.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson's jumping is giving me something to think about. In normal scenarios (ie one or two jumps, any configuration of straight line or curved) he's unsure about jumping. He doesn't usually run out at this point, but he goes slow and sometimes stops right before and pops over. It's clear that he's having a hard time watching me, watching the jumps, and figuring out what the heck distance to jump. It's ugly. 

Last night we started with a line of jumps and a target at the end, starting with one jump, then adding on the others. He's actually a very pretty jumper! When he focuses out ahead and has something to drive towards, he uses his body very well. A horsey person in the class even commented on how nice of a jumper he is.

So I guess my question is will working on lines (like in Suzanne Clothier's method) help him with individual jumps too? Or is his problem with individual jumps related more to my handling and trying to divide his focus between me and the obstacles? 

Just a rhetorical question really - I think the right thing to do is improve his confidence with a real focused jumping program. I was just surprised and how confident and athletic he really is when the jumping situation is ideal, because I was wondering if his problem was mechanical (like if he was a poor natural jumper). 

Has anyone else had a jumping issue that they worked through?


----------



## SDRRanger

elrohwen said:


> Has anyone else had a jumping issue that they worked through?


Currently working through Ranger diverting his attention from me and onto the jumps. He's naturally athletic, but you can't get your legs over every jump if you only pay attention to it as your front legs are coming off the ground.


----------



## MrsBoats

Ask and Elrohwen shall receive - 

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1457 (I'm actually working on some of this with Ocean who has the opposite problem as Watson. O jumps BIG...like takes off 4' in front of the jump and lands 4' past the jump. Collecting oneself to make a turn after the jump? HA! Who needs to do that! Not me says O.)

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1499&ParentCat=215

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1892&ParentCat=215

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3133&ParentCat=215


----------



## elrohwen

MrsBoats said:


> Ask and Elrohwen shall receive -
> 
> http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1457 (I'm actually working on some of this with Ocean who has the opposite problem as Watson. O jumps BIG...like takes off 4' in front of the jump and lands 4' past the jump. Collecting oneself to make a turn after the jump? HA! Who needs to do that! Not me says O.)
> 
> http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1499&ParentCat=215
> 
> http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1892&ParentCat=215
> 
> http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3133&ParentCat=215


Thank you! What is the basis of Linda Mecklenburg's approach? I have Suzanne Clothier's book which is basically a 5 jump grid program in a jump chute - it seems like a good place to start and I'm going to build some jumps this weekend and get started on it soon (now that the snow is melted). I think he'll really enjoy this since he does so well at jumping lines with a target placed at the end. After we finish that, I can try Linda's approach. I put some of the videos you recommended at the top of my BowWowFlix queue too. I plan to take video in the jump chute so I can see what he's doing - it's hard to tell when I'm right on top of him, but I know enough about horse jumping mechanics that I might pick something up from video.

Our instructor does set things up to work on specific jumping fundamentals, but Watson is the only dog in our current class with issues (unlike the last class) so I need to do some work at home or he's going to fall behind. The other dogs his size all moved up to 16" last night, but he needs to stay at 12" (his competition height will be 20"). I will say that the other dogs aren't all necessarily pretty jumpers, they are just confident and fast and fly over everything (like Ocean), which can become its own problem as we advance beyond fundamentals. Watson's funny because most of the time in life he doesn't think and just races through things, but when he does think, like over a single jump, he slows way down and you can see the wheels turning. Thinking and running at the same time is apparently an advanced skill. lol

I wish we had a class devoted to jumping - that would be perfect.


----------



## MrsBoats

Mecklenburg's methods teach the dog how to teach the dog how to control his body over the jump and how to control the jumping effort. She works on teaching the dog how to jump with a rounded style and arc over the jump. Ocean doesn't do that...he jumps flat and he doesn't know how to chip in at a close set point in front of the jump. He isn't using his body...he's using his momentum to fling himself over the jump. (Like Lars in the photo to the left there...that's a picture perfect example of how not to jump in a rounded form. He's completely inverted over the jump.)

Her foundation is teaching a dog to get over a jump with no motion and to click and treat each successful jump. The jumps start low...4" and slowly move them up to competition height. The very first steps are done with the handler sitting on the floor delivering the rewards low on the floor so the dog learns to keep it's head down while over the jump. Ocean and I just finished that stage...we started at 8" and he can make it from a stand still over a 24" jump and not drop the bar. My next step is kneeling next to the jump and delivering the treat to the floor and teaching him to jump with no motion. Then I go to standing. Then I go to gradually changing my location in proximity to the jump and delivering rewards low. All of this teaches the dog to use it's rear to propel him upwards. These exercises teach front and rear end awareness and to keep the focus low so they will round their spine. 

The next stage of the book is you walk (not run) simple courses with your dog along side of you so they offer jumping with no speed and they get used to jumping with your motion. Rewards are still delivered on the ground with a clicker when the bars stay up. At this stage, you work forward motion, deceleration, and lateral motion with your dog. The last stage of the foundation jumping is pairing jumping with verbal cues, location cues, and body cues. 

The intermediate stages of the book is where jumping with speed starts to happen where there are exercises where the dog must learn how to extend and collect while maintaining a rounded jumping form. She has a couple of chapters of different small sequences with using curved tunnels to gain speed before having to read collection and turning cues from the handler. It's not about handling...but how to teach your dog how to read the cues and then make the adjustments needed for collection/extension and to maintain the right jumping arc. As the book progresses...the sequences become longer and more complicated. The last part of the book is the advanced stages...this is where she brings in grid work. 

There is a big difference it sounds from Suzanne Clothier's book. I love me some Suzanne Clothier...but I definitely wouldn't consider her to be an agility resource. I would seek out info from Julie Daniels, Linda Mecklenburg, Susan Salo, and Mary Ellen Bary. When I think agility...Clothier isn't in my top 50 references.


----------



## elrohwen

Interesting! That is quite different. 

An experienced agility person actually recommended Clothier's program. It was developed more for obedience and Sch jumping (before agility was as popular I think). Coming from a horse background using grids makes sense to me. At the least I don't think it can hurt and will improve his confidence, but I worry it won't be super helpful since agility is not composed of neat lines with plenty of room to approach. I like the idea of the program you mentioned to go with it, though Watson doesn't seem to have any issues with jumping flat (since he often gets very close to the jump and then goes over very rounded). I think it will teach him how to deal with single jumps better than grid work.


----------



## MrsBoats

It's very different. That book could be more or less your class for jumping.  It definitely wouldn't hurt...and I think that whole program will teach him how to be more comfortable with jumping. 

I'm recording my sessions with O and I'm sending them to my agility instructor so she can make sure I'm not screwing anything up by misinterpreting what I'm reading. I can send you the links via FB message so you can watch how we do it. 

Editing to add in about Clothier and obedience jumping/agility jumping. I googled her and agility and saw some of the blog posts she had made. You are right...that was geared more towards obedience jumping than agility. Obedience jumping is a completely different animal than jumping on an agility course. Lars has zero issues getting himself over a 24" obedience jump. On an agility course...he will wipe out almost half of the jumps at 24" because he is moving a a higher rate of speed, I'm running and giving commands while we're both moving, there are turns before and after jumps, etc. Obedience jumping, I'm standing still and it is a straight line out and a straight line back to me. I'm not saying anything or moving while he is in the air. Totally different universes of jumping...


----------



## elrohwen

Yeah, that's what I was thinking - there's a lot more complexity to agility. I think her grid work will be a great foundation for confidence and learning the mechanics of jumping and adjusting stride. After that we'll try some more agility focused stuff. He does love a line of jumps when he focuses on the end and not the individual jumps, so I think it will bump his enjoyment of jumping. We have plenty of time for complexities! Haha. 

He made me proud and did a full height teeter last night. I helped a ton and the instructor controlled the movement of the teeter, but it was a huge improvement for a dog who didn't want to put all four feet on it a couple weeks ago.


----------



## Kathyy

Max did seem to learn some more advanced jumping technique from the simple repetition of the chute, raising the bar slowly and varying the distances and adding in doubles and triples and all that. 

I think I will work some of Linda's techniques with Ginger though as she is convinced she can fly where Max didn't think he could jump. These two couldn't be much different in their approach to life but I love them both.

Class was all obstacle training last night, no fun jumpers courses. Boo. Then again watching our agility newbies do awesome running teeters and dogwalks was really fun. Ginger didn't cheat once on the channel weaves either. She did the cutest cheat on the teeter. Sit wait. Done waiting and jerked forward, oh I was supposed to wait. She checked herself 5x and finally released on her own. Too cute and very naughty but we all laughed at her anyway. Bad handler. Take a video if you want to watch your dog work! 

She behaved herself around the other dogs in class too. I took her to the dog park to blow off some steam before hand and she was focused on me and handled on a loose leash for the whole class and even ignored the large silly puppy the instructor was puppy sitting. What was really interesting was her behavior at the dog park. She ran and barked but was more polite than usual about asking to play, even chased the ball a few times and was mostly waiting to leave to go to class. I think I am better off hiking up that hill as class warm up I was so slow running the dog walk with her.


----------



## elrohwen

I wanted to share that Watson's new nicknames are No-No-Bad-Dog and Yes-Yes-Good-Dog. Each week after agility class I make my husband guess what his name is this week. Haha. Yes-Yes-Good-Dog is slowly gaining ground.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Found out today that I have done so much heeling work with Kris, that being on my right side is awkward for her. I will really have to concentrate on working her on both sides in the Agility. She would go over the Dog walk fine and confidently when she was on my left but when I switched sides, it took a couple of tries before she did as well on my right.

The dogs that were there today were practicing for their Open obedience in the big arena so I went and did the dog walk and A-frame (really low) with Kris as they had some agility equipment set up. They have had the table set up where we do our Obedience and she runs and gets on it and sits even though it is a wobbly. I did not do the teeter as it is too shaky and want her to start off right on it. The only jump they had set up was the tire so left that for now. Can hardly wait till our snow goes.


----------



## kadylady

All of our Intro and then Handling classes follow Linda Mecklenberg's material. In our Intro class we spent a lot of time teaching proper jumping skills based on her methods. Since it's the only way I have ever learned I can't really compare it to anything else, but it has always made sense and Zoey has never had any jumping issues, she's a very confident jumper. One of the classes I take repeatedly they call Skills Drills and I'm pretty sure the exercises we do are from the intermediate stages of the book that MrsBoats talked about. It's very fun. I will be taking the class for a 3rd time in a couple weeks.


----------



## elrohwen

I'll have to order the book. Based on what MrsBoats described it sounds like we've incorporated some of Linda's stuff in our classes. My instructor keeps things simple and doesn't always say why we are doing specific exercises or who recommends them, but looking back I see that she has set things up with a lot of thought.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Possibly starting my first agility class in May! I'm so nervous! I think Kairi is ready though, she loves learning so much and is bored when we aren't in obedience classes. I'll be very surprised if she doesn't take to agility, but we'll see. Unfortunately I have to drive an hour to get to class, but I kept getting referred there to people who compete. Guess it will be worth it to learn it "right".


----------



## SDRRanger

Last agility class of the session was today. We worked on a line of four jumps (6" high set as bounces from a sit-stay) where Ranger's enthusiasm overflowed and he thought the last two jumps was actually a reaaaaalllly broad oxer and flung himself over both lol. Had to work around it by doing only three jumps and then building back to four. He's getting really good at our starting position (duck around my leg and sit between them starting in a front sit). 

He still doesn't seem to pay enough attention to his feet and we worked on low cavaletti off leash having them trot over two on an arch. He had no issues moving over them, but also had no issues standing on them...going to do some more foot awareness drills with him at home. 










New class starts not this Wednesday but next. From my understanding we're being placed with three other people from a different class, and moving forward each session (of six classes) will rearrange the participant depending on how far we've each come in the previous one. Hoping there will be some larger dogs in the next one. Being surrounded by shelties is fine, but having to move everything bigger for only one dog must suck.


----------



## elrohwen

We made jumps this weekend! I ordered cups today (weren't sure if we were going to try to make them) so I can't use the bars, but otherwise my 8 jumps are ready to go. Hopefully we can get the fenced area set up next weekend and start working.

Here's a pic - the cross bar that holds the jump together is about 5" high, for reference. I'm going to see if these will work as cavaletti while I'm waiting for jump cups.


----------



## Laurelin

Yay! I totally love Watson. Just wanted to throw that out there.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Yay! I totally love Watson. Just wanted to throw that out there.


Aww, thanks!

Here are a couple more. My husband has to work on his timing. Though I guess it's hard to get a jumping picture when the dog barely has to jump. I flipped it over so it was about 12" in the second picture. So excited to actually set up a little area and work on jumping more than once a week in classes.


----------



## MrsBoats

elrohwen...quick question going back to the jumping issue he has. (I'm thinking out loud at the moment) Is Watson always on leash when he is jumping?


----------



## elrohwen

MrsBoats said:


> elrohwen...quick question going back to the jumping issue he has. (I'm thinking out loud at the moment) Is Watson always on leash when he is jumping?


No, he's never been on leash for jumping, except for maybe one time in class where he was being a brat and running away after the jump - I leashed him that once and rewarded when he turned back to me after. But otherwise our instructor doesn't let us jump on leash.

I just leashed him in the yard because he's a brat-dog and I wanted to take pictures with my new jumps. Haha We have some temporary 3ft high garden fencing that we'll set up next weekend so he can't run away after wildlife.


----------



## CptJack

Our tunnel arrived today. 

It's currently in the living room but I'll set it up outside tomorrow and do some more proper things with her, but just being able to send her back and forth and praising her seems to have her exploding at the seams with happy. We'll see how she does with it tomorrow and then tomorrow in class. I don't expect a huge difference this fast, but I'm hoping she'll at least get comfortable and the action of running through associated to a verbal cue.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Our tunnel arrived today.
> 
> It's currently in the living room but I'll set it up outside tomorrow and do some more proper things with her, but just being able to send her back and forth and praising her seems to have her exploding at the seams with happy. We'll see how she does with it tomorrow and then tomorrow in class. I don't expect a huge difference this fast, but I'm hoping she'll at least get comfortable and the action of running through associated to a verbal cue.


Pictures!!


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Pictures!!


If I can figure out how! There's only one of me! My husband can play photographer later this week, though. (It's pouring rain now and we leave for class as soon as he's home tomorrow).


----------



## MrsBoats

elrohwen said:


> No, he's never been on leash for jumping, except for maybe one time in class where he was being a brat and running away after the jump - I leashed him that once and rewarded when he turned back to me after. But otherwise our instructor doesn't let us jump on leash.
> 
> I just leashed him in the yard because he's a brat-dog and I wanted to take pictures with my new jumps. Haha We have some temporary 3ft high garden fencing that we'll set up next weekend so he can't run away after wildlife.


Okay...like I said I was just wondering because leashed jumping could have it's issues. Carry on!


----------



## elrohwen

MrsBoats said:


> Okay...like I said I was just wondering because leashed jumping could have it's issues. Carry on!


Oh yeah, at least that's not his problem! I've heard of classes that work on leash for a long time and that makes me wonder what they do about jumping. The first time we did a jump we were off leash (which ended with Watson and a standard poodle running away together to play for 5 minutes before we could catch them).


----------



## Tashapaws

elrohwen said:


> Oh yeah, at least that's not his problem! I've heard of classes that work on leash for a long time and that makes me wonder what they do about jumping. The first time we did a jump we were off leash (which ended with Watson and a standard poodle running away together to play for 5 minutes before we could catch them).


In our class, most of the jumps are on-leash. Natasha is not anymore because she's now attentive enough to ignore other things and run with me, and thus I can concentrate on guiding her and not on the leash. Our teacher warns us a lot about the eashes and how we should be hiper-careful so dogs don't get tangled on jumps.


----------



## Laurelin

Our first place had us start them on leash. It's kind of... pointless. Idk, I really don't see why people still train their classes that way.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Our first place had us start them on leash. It's kind of... pointless. Idk, I really don't see why people still train their classes that way.


A lot of people in our classes TRIED to start with their dogs on leash/wanted to keep their dogs on leash and maybe just drop it but the instructor came down pretty firm about taking them off _fast_, for jumping and everything else. It was messing up the form for a lot of dogs, and some others were getting spooked by the trailing leash (like in the tunnel). It was also leading to some really bad handling that was making a lot of things worse (like trying to drag the dog around instead of guide them).

So yeah, I don't know. Bad idea when you introduce obstacles, I'd think.


----------



## MrsBoats

So you can see some of the foundation stuff of the Mecklenburg book...here's me and O working step 2. He's made his way up to 22" in this video. We progress to a new height or step when he is at least 80% successful with what we're doing at the current step. 

Here's 24" (complete with a husband f-bomb off camera directed at Hell's kitchen on TV. Consider yourself warned. LOL)






Our next step is to do this but have me in a kneeling position and to gradually move to a standing position next to the jump.


----------



## SDRRanger

That is what we were working on in class, but we're at about 6"


----------



## Laurelin

I don't know whether to laugh or just sigh.. Ok, I'll admit it I laughed mostly and then sighed. 

Old Dog is so wild. We were indoors and indoors means her brain just goes kersplat on the floor. Major old dog zoomies tonight forever. Just circle and circle and circle. When she was focused she was ON like you wouldn't believe. As my trainer exclaimed, 'Granny is fast!'

Weaves ar still our struggling point. We are the worst easily at them but so much further along in everything else. Urgh. My trainer commented that Summer is a dog that will force me into being a better trainer which is funny since she's so easy in a lot of ways. 

Also this week (starting last thursday) we have TUG happening. With Summer. My dog that would hide from any toy. She is actually gripping the tug and pulling on it ever so shortly.


----------



## Tashapaws

Laurelin said:


> Our first place had us start them on leash. It's kind of... pointless. Idk, I really don't see why people still train their classes that way.


In ours its because we train in a public fenced park. And if some dog bothers the instructor can legally ask them to leave, but if they don't... for Natasha, having dogs running around at a fair distance was a distraction I couldn't compete with. Now I can, thus I trust she won't spend the class running there to play.


----------



## elrohwen

MrsBoats, I tried to buy the book and it's out of stock at Clean Run :-( Boo. I like that it uses one jump - I could do most of that in my bedroom without needing to work outside.


----------



## MrsBoats

A lot of the foundation stuff (Steps 1 -7) can and probably should be done inside. Steps after that are done as little sequences. Is it on back order??

Editing to add...I just looked at J & J Dog supplies and amazon...both of them are sold out of the book too.  I knew it was a great book, but damn.


----------



## elrohwen

MrsBoats said:


> A lot of the foundation stuff (Steps 1 -7) can and probably should be done inside. Steps after that are done as little sequences. Is it on back order??


It just says out of stock with no information on backorder


----------



## elrohwen

I set up 3 of my new jumps (at the default 5" height) in the basement last night to work as cavaletti. It took a second for him to realize I wanted him to go over instead of around, but once he did he loved it. I also worked on sending him to a single jump as we practiced heeling games. So far he loves his new jumps and isn't showing any hesitation like he does in class, which is a great sign.

Later that night DH went to the basement to get something from the pantry - Watson followed him down and ran over to his jump and stood there, wanting to work more. Cute pup.


----------



## SDRRanger

elrohwen said:


> I set up 3 of my new jumps (at the default 5" height) in the basement last night to work as cavaletti. It took a second for him to realize I wanted him to go over instead of around, but once he did he loved it. I also worked on sending him to a single jump as we practiced heeling games. So far he loves his new jumps and isn't showing any hesitation like he does in class, which is a great sign.
> 
> Later that night DH went to the basement to get something from the pantry - Watson followed him down and ran over to his jump and stood there, wanting to work more. Cute pup.



It's wonderful when they wanna keep going


----------



## Laurelin

I finally got up the courage to enter snookers. I'm a little bit scared.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I finally got up the courage to enter snookers. I'm a little bit scared.


I can't say I know much about it, but good luck!


----------



## Kathyy

Took me years to figure it out, now it is my favorite game. Max has a bazillion regular Qs in snooker but only got 2 super Qs so no title for him. Get the course map and talk about what to do with a buddy and do not miss the judge's briefing!


----------



## CptJack

I don't understand Kylie at all. She still is absolutely inconsistent with tunnels - but she really, loves the chute? IDEK what to do with that, besides keep working with the tunnel at home.

We did channel jumps (4, only without an actual channel) with resetting the bars on each end of Kylie's runs since she continues to be Tiny Dog In Class. Introduced the dog walk and chute (And she really loved both). Ran some smallish series of obstacles with both. Next week is teeter introduction (should be interesting), and more work on sending out to jumps. 

Instructor actually praised us for how hard Kylie's keeping her eyes on me between obstacles and me for keeping my direction of her solid and tight which made me feel good.

All around good class and really good time.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I don't understand Kylie at all. She still is absolutely inconsistent with tunnels - but she really, loves the chute? IDEK what to do with that, besides keep working with the tunnel at home.


That seems like the opposite of typical. Dogs are weird I guess. I think dogs are weird about tunnels in general - out of the dogs I have seen, every one either takes to the tunnel immediately (yay tunnels!) or actively dislikes them and tries to go around or over. 



> We did channel jumps (4, only without an actual channel) with resetting the bars on each end of Kylie's runs since she continues to be Tiny Dog In Class.


What are channel jumps? I have a picture in my mind, but I might be imagining them wrong.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> That seems like the opposite of typical. Dogs are weird I guess. I think dogs are weird about tunnels in general - out of the dogs I have seen, every one either takes to the tunnel immediately (yay tunnels!) or actively dislikes them and tries to go around or over.


I'm kind of starting to think that the issue is the curve/bend on the thing. Like it's not fun for her and 'WHY DO YOU WANT ME TO GO THE LONG WAY AROUND' on top. Cute she's blind and can't see me, but she also gets to push the fabric up WHEE and it's necessarily straight. Dunno.



> What are channel jumps? I have a picture in my mind, but I might be imagining them wrong.


Um, I think it's what you're calling a jump chute? We just lost the chute. Fencing down the side of the jumps and target at the end (last week). Now it's just a bunch of jumps in a row with the instructor on the end.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I'm kind of starting to think that the issue is the curve/bend on the thing. Like it's not fun for her and 'WHY DO YOU WANT ME TO GO THE LONG WAY AROUND' on top. Cute she's blind and can't see me, but she also gets to push the fabric up WHEE and it's necessarily straight. Dunno.
> 
> 
> Um, I think it's what you're calling a jump chute? We just lost the chute. Fencing down the side of the jumps and target at the end (last week). Now it's just a bunch of jumps in a row with the instructor on the end.


Ahh. Yeah same as a jump chute. We haven't done that in class exactly but we do lines with a target.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer had issues with curved tunnels for a while. I think it was because it was dark and intimidating and a lot of times they can hear you running kind of a different direction so they get confused. She would avoid tunnels like the plague at first and our first trial that is what got us on both our jumpers runs. She used to jump on top and run on top too.

On the plus side, Summer now LOVES tunnels so much she missed every tunnel/contact discrimination in her last trial. So there's that. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_7350iDsZ4&feature=youtu.be <--- look at that tunnel love LOL

Also make sure you're not reaching the tunnel too fast and stopping to wait for her. I have to watch that one a lot because if I reach the tunnel too fast Summer will stop too at the entrance.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Ahh. Yeah same as a jump chute. We haven't done that in class exactly but we do lines with a target.


We only did a couple of classes with it (between the two sessions) but they were really useful. Especially for the golden doodle that, shall we say, reminds me a lot of Thud. And that is being handled by an 11 year old. 

But that's a WHOLE different post here.



Laurelin said:


> Also make sure you're not reaching the tunnel too fast and stopping to wait for her. I have to watch that one a lot because if I reach the tunnel too fast Summer will stop too at the entrance.


I definitely think the reason she's turning around and appearing beside me is she can hear me going somewhere else and does not like it. Getting to her ahead of the tunnel is something I... am probably doing. I'll pay more attention when we get out this evening and work on adjusting that. Because I'm willing to bet if I am stopping at ALL then, yeah, that's at least one of our problems.


----------



## Laurelin

I've found out that speeding up along jumps works well but if I do contacts an tunnels that way I tend to stop to wait for her so he gets confused an is like 'why we stopping?' Lol. Sometimes she's a lot faster than I am but sometimes I beat here there.


----------



## GrinningDog

Laurelin said:


> I finally got up the courage to enter snookers. I'm a little bit scared.


Good luck! We did CPE Snookers a while ago in our Agility League. It was CRAZY. The reds weren't in any kind of convenient setup with the colors. Our first run was 9 seconds long, LOL, obviously a complete and utter flop. The second run went fantastic, but I really had to manage Gypsy on the course. I felt like I was reigning in a wild beast, while people were cheering us on. We made it through! And had a BLAST. I practically collapsed into a chair afterward.


----------



## elrohwen

Tunnels are Watson's best obstacle - I can stop, point, and say tunnel and he's like "Heck yeah tunnel!" I'm sure he'll have issues with tunnel sucking later. Last class we did teeter then dog walk (so he thought the dog walk was a teeter and it freaked him out a bit). A tunnel was positioned under the dog walk and when we got there I could see him thinking "Hm, don't like the dog walk. I'll do the tunnel! Maybe that will be good enough!" 

A cattle dog in our current class has a lot of tunnel issues because she's so velcro - I think her natural orbit from her person is 5ft. She just doesn't see the point of going into a tunnel where she can't see her owner.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Remmy loves tunnels. Was always happy to see them in Gamblers as he would send a long way if there was a tunnel. He should have Q'd in an Advanced Gamblers if I had counted right and was one of the few that completed the closing Gamble.

It is also a disadvantage sometimes as he has gotten the zoomies and gone through the same tunnel over and over and could not get him away from it.


----------



## CptJack

Being velcro probably isn't helping Kylie here, either. If I'm not moving and giving instructions loud, clear, and constantly (and screaming GO! when she's going straight) she's not willing to move ahead of me at ALL. We're really new at this, though. 

Kylie sucks to contacts. End of the A-frame or dog-walk is anywhere near by even just moving through the class and she wants to do the obstacle REALLY REALLY BAD - or will sit her butt on the contact point if we're standing around anywhere near them.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer was trained on leash at first when she was in agility at 5 years. She likes to stay right next to me as you can tell in the video. It's frustrating. 

Maybe it'll help us in snookers though LOL.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> Kylie sucks to contacts. End of the A-frame or dog-walk is anywhere near by even just moving through the class and she wants to do the obstacle REALLY REALLY BAD - or will sit her butt on the contact point if we're standing around anywhere near them.


Zoey is a big time contact sucker, and since we have been reinforcing 2o2o so much lately she is even more into them now. I also have to watch my motion, or lack of, into the tunnels because that is definitely one of the things that throws her off. She just doesn't have that drive into them all the time (sometimes she surprises me) and needs the extra support. I have been doing a lot of treating at the end of tunnels to try and help that. Have you done any targeting at the end of the tunnels? I was helping someone at the club last week, her cocker wouldn't take the tunnel when she would try to rear cross it so she had me stand at one end with the target and if he committed to the tunnel I placed on the treat on it for him at the end. She started with a straight tunnel and gradually added a curve, it was definitely helping. That might be something to play with at home with your new tunnel.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> Have you done any targeting at the end of the tunnels? I was helping someone at the club last week, her cocker wouldn't take the tunnel when she would try to rear cross it so she had me stand at one end with the target and if he committed to the tunnel I placed on the treat on it for him at the end. She started with a straight tunnel and gradually added a curve, it was definitely helping. That might be something to play with at home with your new tunnel.


That's my instructor's go-to thing for dogs who don't like tunnels. 

The cattle dog I mentioned initially didn't want to go to the target or instructor until they got some really great treats. She loved those hot dogs so much that her owner walked away and the dog ran back to the instructor at the end of the tunnel, begging for treats. It was one of those classic comic moments where the owner is spinning around in circles looking for her dog (who is never more than 5ft away from her) and the dog is staring at the instructor. Then she calls the dog, but as soon as he back is turned the dog runs straight back to the instructor. We were all cracking up.


----------



## CptJack

We definitely use a target/treats at the other end, though about once every couple of classes we have to swap places so the instructor is releasing her into the tunnel and she's coming to me. I've also started providing my own treats to go onto the target, since the stuff the instructor uses doesn't work for Kylie.

I THINK I'm going to keep working with the target and tunnel at home with husband, gradually increasing the curve. I'm also going to get a freaking verbal command associated with it, which is something the instructor suggested we NOT do, but I think will help Kylie.


----------



## MrsBoats

For tunnel discrimination...having a verbal command for either obstacle is key especially if you can't get there to direct the dog with handling cues. When I tell Lars "Target" he knows to go for the contact equipment. If I tell him "Chute" that means take the tunnel. Lars was an incredible tunnel sucker when we started out...and having a clear verbal for him to know which thing was right helped a lot. 






This is an Elite regular class from NADAC (which is notorious for contact/tunnel stuff in their courses) and you can see how a verbal works when I'm not anywhere near the discrimination.


----------



## Laurelin

We have verbals. We've worked discriminations before but not in a while. Seems like they're not so common in USDAA. Need to work them again.


----------



## MrsBoats

They aren't common in USDAA or AKC agility. NADAC they are a given on any course at any level that has a piece of contact equipment.

Editing to add in...This is something to keep in mind for those of you guys who are new to agility. Agility skills can be very hard to master or maintain if you do not have regular access to agility equipment. What I mean by regular access is getting your dog on equipment a couple of times a week at least. If you have the space at your house...find a used a-frame or dog walk or teeter to work contacts and get a set of 12 weave poles. If you don't have the space...make friends with someone who does have equipment and will let you train with them. Or, be ready to rent ring time at a facility. 

When I realized I was going to get serious about this sport...I spent two years collecting equipment and the only thing I don't have now is a chute and a double/triple jump. My BFF doesn't have the space and she comes over a couple of times a week here and then does classes two other times a week. So, her dog is on equipment 4 times a week on average and then she has trials on the weekend. 

If your dog is only seeing equipment once a week at class (I'm being real for a minute,) it's going to be incredibly hard for your dog to learn the obstacles and the skills they need to perform them well let alone being able to proof those obstacles. Agility is a sport that really needs to be worked outside of your class.


----------



## Laurelin

CprJack, was it Kylie or Thud you found in the trash? At that trial I talked to a girl that is running a chi mix that she found in the trash. Made me think of you and Kylie. 

One of my big requirements for the house I'm buying is that we have enough room to set up a partial course. I can't fit a darn thing in my current yard.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> CprJack, was it Kylie or Thud you found in the trash? At that trial I talked to a girl that is running a chi mix that she found in the trash. Made me think of you and Kylie. .


Both of them, actually. Kylie we found screaming INSIDE a (Commercial) trash dumpster. Thud we just found at a county dump, wet, and trying to eat thrown out shrimp cocktail that had frozen to the ground.

I am somehow delighted that there's another little dumpster dog out there running agility.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah apparently this dude was found inside a trash can. It always makes me happy to see the teams that have gotten really far. They're running masters too!


----------



## LoMD13

The little munchkin and I have had a fantastic week. We did a really tough course with a serpentine and threadle, and she was speedy, happy, and completely focused. I've changed two things in the past few months and they're paying off in a huge way- I've started using a squeaky ball as a reward sometimes, and I'm trying to be WAY peppier and cheerleaderish in the ring.

On the way there, I left her in the car for 1 minute to run in and get a coffee. I put her treat bag in the way back (hatchback), in my purse figuring that she'd never be able to get back there in that amount of time, I wasn't even sure she could figure out how to get back there in the first place. When I got back, she had gone back there, carefully dragged the bag up to the front seat (to dine in comfort I assume?) , and was JUST about to dive in. She hated her life so much when I stopped her!


----------



## elrohwen

Watson was super stressy in class last night :-( I think it was a combination of just being weird/hormonal/uber-distracted lately, and being nervous about the teeter since we worked on it the last 2 or 3 classes. He was disconnected and super sniffy (in a stressed way) when we arrived, so I don't think it was related to the specific activities we did. We basically did some 3 jump exercises and when we worked independently he got faster and more confident with each rep. When we went into the big ring for the final activity (still 3 jumps, similar to what we had just practiced) he was mentally gone. Like, staring into space, going super slow, and trotting off to other obstacles (not zooming or going to see other dogs, just wandering off to jump on the table or go and stand in the tunnel). We salvaged it by using targets after each jump (he still likes jumping to a target) but he really wasn't himself. He's so hot and cold - one class he'll be having fun and progressing, and the next class he's either running away from me (usually distraction more than stress) or stressing out. He's normally such a confident and happy dog that it's really hard to watch him be stressed. I hope part of this is related to whatever general phase he's going through right now which has made him completely uninterested in nosework. He's still upbeat at home and we've been training/playing more than ever (and he's bugging me to work) but in training places he previously loved, he's just shutting down and sniffing. I'm used to him being distracted by the environment (dogs! people! yay!) but not this spacing out and inability to focus on anything.

In positive news, we spent a couple minutes with the weave-o-matics and he rocked them off leash with no issues. The first time through his nose was on the ground, but he did it. By the third time he seemed confident and was enjoying himself. We don't practice these often, so I was glad to see he's retaining what he learned and knows what to do. At least it's something he enjoys and isn't stressing about.


----------



## kadylady

My instructor told me last night that it is time for me to pick up the pace. 2 ways. One, I just plain need to start running faster. Zoey is so very nice to me and will pretty much just match whatever pace I set and I totally take advantage of that. Apparently we are ready to speed up that pace and it's up to me to do it. Second, I need to amp her up more. We were discussing her teeter performance, which is overall pretty good for the level we are at, but she could definitely use more confidence on it at the tipping point. My instructor took her and really got her amped up and excited and went over it a couple times in quick succession and it made such a huge difference! Her excitement totally overshadowed any worries she had about it and she was much more confident in tipping it. She can be a really serious dog sometimes so I definitely need to work harder on building that drive and excitement in her. It's been a long process trying to build tug and toy drive but I have been getting more of it at home with her, now just have to work on transitioning that over to other places.

We have our first AKC trial this weekend!! Same building we have done most of our CPE at so that will definitely help. I'm super excited and a little bit nervous, but my instructor assures me we are ready. If she is confident and happy in the ring like last time I will be thrilled regardless of anything else.


----------



## elrohwen

Good luck, Kadylady and Zoe!


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> Good luck, Kadylady and Zoe!


Thank you


----------



## Chichan

I have a quick question for anyone that knows about Agility in this thread.
Can any breed do agility?
I have a Chihuahua and I always thought it might be fun to do agility training with him when he's older.
I read on a site that Chis can't do agility and should do obedience instead.
Thoughts?


----------



## CptJack

Chichan said:


> I have a quick question for anyone that knows about Agility in this thread.
> Can any breed do agility?
> I have a Chihuahua and I always thought it might be fun to do agility training with him when he's older.
> I read on a site that Chis can't do agility and should do obedience instead.
> Thoughts?


ANY breed can do agility, and I have no idea in the world why people would say chis can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7C5WNF1Eb4


----------



## elrohwen

Chichan said:


> I have a quick question for anyone that knows about Agility in this thread.
> Can any breed do agility?
> I have a Chihuahua and I always thought it might be fun to do agility training with him when he's older.
> I read on a site that Chis can't do agility and should do obedience instead.
> Thoughts?


Any breed can do agility, and chis certainly can! I know a woman who competes with chis.

Not every breed will be the fastest and "best" breed for agility, but every breed can have fun doing it.


----------



## kadylady

There was a super cute Chi at one of the last trials I was at, he was fast too! Isn't there someone on here that has done agility with their Chi? CoverTune maybe?


----------



## CptJack

Tunnel!

I took a billion pictures. This one is the only one that worked at all.









I guess you can sort of make out what's happening in this one, with weird color removal and prodding to cope with how dark it came out. Either way, she seems to be getting comfortable in there.


----------



## SDRRanger

She looks like she's having a good time. How many times through did it take for her to be more comfortable?


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> She looks like she's having a good time. How many times through did it take for her to be more comfortable?


I'm not really sure, to be honest. Not as long as I expected, by any means. We've played with it a few times in the house, straight, and just let her run through from one of the kids or my husband to me, treating her and working on the verbal. Today's the first time we took it outside and set it up with the curve, started the same way - just using hte verbal, sending her through to the other person and getting a treat. Then sent her through and I started running to Michael at the other end and giving her the treat myself. It probably took about half hour out there, with some breaks to take photos or just goof off and play. 

The problem is DEFINITELY losing sight of me. Michel being able to call her from the other end a few times while I was moving with her was more helpful than anything we did to be able to help her 'get' that she shouldn't pop out and come running back to me. Putting the action of going ALL THE WAY THROUGH on a command seems to have helped, too, since I could NRM when she popped out and reset. Definitely going to be something we keep working on and playing with, though, and it'll be interesting to see what happens on Tuesday.


----------



## GrinningDog

Chichan said:


> I have a quick question for anyone that knows about Agility in this thread.
> Can any breed do agility?
> I have a Chihuahua and I always thought it might be fun to do agility training with him when he's older.
> I read on a site that Chis can't do agility and should do obedience instead.
> Thoughts?


One of my agility instructors/friends has an AWESOME 4 lb agility Chihuahua! I'm not savvy when it comes to agility titles, but he has 'em. You can definitely do agility with a chi!


----------



## kadylady

We had a fantastic weekend at our first AKC trial!!! Saturday we Q'd in Jumpers, almost Q'd standard but she got really excited and took a flying leap off the dog walk. We got a little disconnected after that but I was so happy with how quickly we were able to reconnect and finish. Today we Q'd in both Standard and JWW!! She got all her contacts in Standard today, had a little trouble with the weaves today (had to retry them in each class) but I think it was because she was runner quite a bit faster today and just hasn't got the weaves down at that speed yet. She got them fine once she slowed down and focused. Video from Saturday, no video from Sunday.

Saturday Novice Standard, NQ





Sunday Novice JWW, Q


----------



## Sibe

Really nice Novice standard course, she did great! Congrats on the JWW Q, and a 1st place


----------



## SDRRanger

Great job! She looked really happy doing her job.


----------



## kadylady

Sibe said:


> Really nice Novice standard course, she did great! Congrats on the JWW Q, and a 1st place


Thanks Sibe! 




SDRRanger said:


> Great job! She looked really happy doing her job.


Thanks! She was SO HAPPY which was the best part of the whole weekend! Love seeing her happy and confident out there, makes it all worth it!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

You guys look great!! Congrats to you and Zoey


----------



## Laurelin

Awesome runs!

We have another trial with the Old Lady this weekend. I'm crossing my fingers for a few Qs. I said this last time but we're so close to titling. If she will just not jump in peoples' laps this time...


----------



## Laurelin

Has anyone ever played blackjack or colors? I'm entering a TDAA trial just to try it out. Can't decide if I want to do just standard runs or enter the games too.....

ETA: Decided to enter FAST and Colors for now. Skipping blackjack and run til you drop though they sound fun! That's 6 runs. A lot for Old Dog.

Next month 3/4 of my weekends are dog trials. Haha I love it.


----------



## CptJack

So, class tonight.

A-) We introduced the teeter (with one end propped on a table so they got up and then walked down and tipped it a few inches). No problem.

B-) We introduced the breakaway tire. That one's going to take some time.

C-) Kylie tried to climb the a-frame while it was still all the way up for storage. As in basically vertical. And wouldn't come off it. Nearly gave me a heart attack, do you are not a mountain goat.


D-) The golden she's been in both classes with, and who has never noticed she exited realized she's alive this week and kept veering off course to pounce on top of her. Everyone was quite impressed by how little Kylie cared, but we ended up having to pick her up and turn my back to the room every time he ran because otherwise he'd come pounce. From everywhere. Funniest thing EVER, to be honest.

E-) Strings of obstacles. Instructor says "As soon as she finishes one obstacle, call out the command for the next." This is good sense! Except when coming out of the tunnel and being told 'over' fora jump she immediately jumped. Over nothing. I don't think she's quite got this looking ahead of herself down yet. And I'm not sure how to work on it except continued to exposure that I'm calling out the NEXT THING. Guess we'll see how next week goes for that one.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, also. I have convinced my husband to come to our next to last class of this session and take some photographs and maybe video of Kylie. I kinda don't want to show myself on camera, but I'll suck it up for this one.


----------



## SDRRanger

Good on Kylie dealing with the rude dog. Do you think she was putting up with it because she wanted to work?


----------



## SDRRanger

Also, my next agility class starts tonight  They've started working outside now, but it's pretty much a hurricane so I think we'll be in tonight. With all the fosters lately it will be nice to spend some one-on-one time with Ranger working.


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> Good on Kylie dealing with the rude dog. Do you think she was putting up with it because she wanted to work?


I think so. First time I was leashing her up after her run, the others we were waiting to go. I don't think she really even NOTICED the dog because she was focused elsewhere. Which is impressive when it was on top of her. LOL.


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> I think so. First time I was leashing her up after her run, the others we were waiting to go. I don't think she really even NOTICED the dog because she was focused elsewhere. Which is impressive when it was on top of her. LOL.


I've found that some of my proudest moments with Ranger aren't when he's going over the obstacles, but when one of the other dogs comes bounding over to him while he's in a settle waiting his turn and he doesn't break the down. For a dog that is SO play driven I know how hard it is for him to stay focused


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> I've found that some of my proudest moments with Ranger aren't when he's going over the obstacles, but when one of the other dogs comes bounding over to him while he's in a settle waiting his turn and he doesn't break the down. For a dog that is SO play driven I know how hard it is for him to stay focused


I have to admit, the atmosphere of our class is a LOT lower key and more casual since we're down to just the 5 of us. I do however have a tiny bit of a gloat every time anybody says 'to their dog' "WHY CAN"T YOU BEHAVE LAST NIGHT." The golden's only a year old, though, and his owner asked me last night how old Kylie was- and was relieved at my answer. She's already competitively handling other dogs and knowing that her dog is a cracker jack who screws up makes me feel better about myself in general.

Well, that and Kylie being Kylie. She never does anything that's really WRONG. Sometimes she's more interested in the target with treats (new obstacles) than she should be, sometimes she takes some convincing with something new, but she's crazy well behaved. My ego is going to take a heck of a hit when I get in there with Thud


----------



## SDRRanger

new class started tonight and omg so many new things. 

For starters it's outside which is completely new for us. And we were joining a new group so there were new dogs around too. 

My class now consists of:
2 shelties (one handled by a young girl) both from my previous class
1 schnauzer
1 pitty mix looking thing
1 BC type who is dog reactive, but handled very well
and my goof. 

After one jump warmup (in which the instructor held the bar steady so Ranger would stop plowing through it...he lifted his legs once he realized he couldn't smash it down) we worked on tunnel-jump which Ranger loved. He's got so much power and strength that he throws the footing around. Now only if we can harness it lol. 

Also went over the teeter with the instructor lowering it slowly. Ranger clambered over that as well and did well going along the walk except for once when he zipped down the side and had to try again. 

Final thing was tunnel to tunnel on sort of a turn. Ranger overshot the second tunnel but went through on the second. 

I'm looking forward to continuing this class. Outside means more distractions, but we're getting to use some of the foundations we've worked with in class before.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Kimma now holds the breed record for most total MACH points earned by a Finnish Spitz and most MACH points earned in a single run


----------



## kadylady

Finkie_Mom said:


> Kimma now holds the breed record for most total MACH points earned by a Finnish Spitz and most MACH points earned in a single run


Wow! Congrats to you and Kimma! That is super exciting!


----------



## elrohwen

Ugh, Watson is so hot and cold. Last week he was super stressy and slow and I thought he might be nervous of the teeter (though we didn't actually do the teeter last week). This week he was super high and overstimulated (which is much more typical for him) and he got the zoomies half the time. I can't seem to find that happy balance between the two. I'm going to have to change what I'm doing, obviously. My instructor has had me get him and bring him back, and re-run the exercise, treating after every jump (since he isn't crazy about jumps in the first place I often do this even if he isn't running off). Typically the second time through he does well, but then on our next turn he's back to being a jerk and sprinting off after the first or second obstacle. Sometimes it's towards other dogs to play/sniff butts, but last night he was just randomly running off. I even exercised him before class which usually seems to help, and he had seemed as focused as ever when we were waiting our turn. I think part of the problem is his impulse control. He has it in stationary exercises when I ask, but it the pressure to "be good" builds and then he explodes into zoomies once we're moving. I have no doubt that I could leave him on a stay and walk the entire way across the arena, but I can't promise he would then recall to me or take an obstacle, or if he would zoom off. Maybe some of this is just maturity.

My new plan is to crate after he runs away and just let him miss his turn. I can even run the handling exercise by myself. He pretends to be independent, but he *hates* to be crated away from me and left out of stuff. I hope it works. I thought what I was doing was working because he was zooming less, but the past few weeks have been really bad.

In his non-idiot moments, he actually seems to like the teeter now. He ran up it all on his own and was fairly confident about tipping it (instructor held it so the movement was slow and controlled). I made sure to take him out of the building when the two fast dogs were slamming it down since that still stresses him out. His obstacle performance in general (except maybe jumps) is on track with no major issues, so I don't feel like he'll fall behind if I end up crating him most of the class for running away.


----------



## SDRRanger

That's good that he is getting better with the teeter  I'm worried that Ranger's enthusiasm for bursting onto it is going to cause us issues when he get to go on it free (like he'll take it too fast, pop over the end and scare himself) but we're taking it slow and hoping he'll settle.


----------



## kadylady

We had a really fantastic class last night working contacts. I'm really loving how this instructor is teaching and progressing the 2o2o. We did lots of proofing and back chaining last night and the dogs were doing well enough with it that she had us run the whole obstacle (both A frame and Dog walk) by the end of class. Zoey was nailing the contacts and with speed too. I was really trying to get her amped up last night and trying to figure out what gets her amped up. Apparently playing with Goldens gets her amped up lol she got to meet a golden while we were taking a break and she was super amped up after that. I did get her tugging on her a leash a little bit, which is a huge deal for us because I've been really trying to build tug drive with her and its been a slow process, so I was thrilled she was wanting to tug in class.


----------



## Kathyy

I am really liking my extremely brave instructor's approach to contact training as well. She sits at the bottom with treats and hand feeds the dogs. We have a RR and a rough collie in the class. Both really like having her at the bottom of the contact. Both are young dogs with a lot of enthusiasm. She says it is a bit scary seeing them come down the contact. You think? Ginger loves this, last night was her first time on the A frame, she about did a somersault just from half way up a 3' tall frame and stuck her contact.

We were supposed to be doing channel weaves but she took a detour on the 2' tall teeter and stuck her contact! Stinker, doesn't do as asked then she does it the right way! She has been doing 6 poles at home nicely this week but didn't do well in class for some reason, I don't think I was focused properly. End of class and this is fun and I am assuming. Assuming anything is bad, very bad.

Dogs did better on the jump/tunnel sequence we were doing as one of our more brilliant class members suggested doing it when it was still a little light so the dogs could see better. I was demonstrating rear crosses [mostly with spins] where we were supposed to be doing fronts though. I was almost getting there as she was sending to the tunnel better than she had been but between her speed and my knees I would much rather do rears anyway. I am working tunnel at home with the Treat&Train, will continue that. Using a jackpot pouch will work later on but right now she mostly just tugs on it after an exercise rather than targeting it after a sequence. And even that was a long time coming, I had tried the jackpot tug earlier and she would have nothing to do with it. She accepted a tossed toy as reward at home this week so apparently is getting more comfortable with agility stuff.

So as a result of my illicit rear crosses we got some new rear cross homework! Max learned rear crosses as a result of chute jump work and I am not doing that with Ginger so very glad to get this help. Been 13 years and I know there were always huge holes in my training anyway.

I have been leaving home 1/2 hour early and taking a short hike before class. Last night apparently I chose the hiking hot spot of the valley as there were at least a couple dozen cars in the parking lot. I had her sit/stay when hikers and bikers passed by and since the 'trail' was a double wide dirt road was able to treattreattreat her past a large calm dog rather than pick her up as I do when passing horses and dogs on a normal trail. This seems to focus her and is fun at the same time. I had brought the flexi but seeing all the cars put on the 6' lead and was very glad I did!

elrohwen, Watson is stressing up and feeling over faced. When Sassy stressed up I needed to keep my eyes and attention on her like a tractor beam or she got away and off she went. Take a slow blink and off she went, not kidding. I am so pleased with the way Ginger settles down after a short pre class hike I wonder if he would do better with something relaxing like that at least for now. I like putting up dogs that act like that as well, my fussing at keeping them sitting, keeping loose leash and ignoring other dogs is really just nagging at them that works them up more and why would they want to work with somebody that is nagging all the time???? 

School is having a fun run this week and I am going. Ginger will not run of course. I may put her on the practice jump and do on leash flat work but that is it. I am going to walk her around the perimeter, sit with her outside the ring and in a trial type set up to get her used to being around running dogs outside class. If that goes well I will pretend to work a class for a couple minutes so she is alone in the set up. I hope the measuring thingie is around so I can put her on the table and measure her and if I can pretend to be in a line that would be a good idea as well. A trial day may be 8 hours long and you are running only 3-5 minutes of that. Sassy was okay but Max was miserable [crying] if I wasn't right there with him. Raymond screamed when around running dogs. I am expecting Ginger will be miserable without me and screaming around other dogs but is a quick learner. This is at her home field so the best place to start trial manner training. I will report how it goes. I may be walking around the outside of the field the whole time, hope I get to the point I can sit by the ring pretending to work a class.


----------



## CptJack

I really really want to be working on weaves, but they're a separate class with this facility which means I won't even see them until sometime this summer at the very soonest. And I likely won't until sometime in the fall or early next year. I may buy a set of stick in the ground poles to work with at home but dammit WANT WEAVES.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I really really want to be working on weaves, but they're a separate class with this facility which means I won't even see them until sometime this summer at the very soonest. And I likely won't until sometime in the fall or early next year. I may buy a set of stick in the ground poles to work with at home but dammit WANT WEAVES.


We use the weave-o-matics occasionally and I was surprised how quickly Watson got the hang of them. He can run through completely on his own now, though they are still opened up. Curious to see how it goes as we start to close them, but I'm in no hurry.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> We use the weave-o-matics occasionally and I was surprised how quickly Watson got the hang of them. He can run through completely on his own now, though they are still opened up. Curious to see how it goes as we start to close them, but I'm in no hurry.


I don't want to teach Kylie to do it wrong or start bad habits, but I REALLY want to start working on weaves. I don't think she's going to have major issues with them, but... Eh. I guess I'll decide one way or the other. In truth I should probably spend most of the class break working on things with THud so he's not fighting for new information AND distractions at once. Since I know what the class covers.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I don't want to teach Kylie to do it wrong or start bad habits, but I REALLY want to start working on weaves. I don't think she's going to have major issues with them, but... Eh. I guess I'll decide one way or the other. In truth I should probably spend most of the class break working on things with THud so he's not fighting for new information AND distractions at once. Since I know what the class covers.


Why do you think she'll struggle?


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Why do you think she'll struggle?


I don't, actually. I think she's mostly kind of bored and if we're not introducing new information to her instead of just practicing for too long she's going to get really bored and flake.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> I really really want to be working on weaves, but they're a separate class with this facility which means I won't even see them until sometime this summer at the very soonest. And I likely won't until sometime in the fall or early next year. I may buy a set of stick in the ground poles to work with at home but dammit WANT WEAVES.


My club doesn't really teach weaves, and I've been told it's because there are so many ways to teach them. They do have a contacts & weaves class which I am in right now, but it focuses much more on contacts than weaves. I ended up teaching Zoey the weaves all on my own last summer (which makes me pretty proud because she weaves pretty well). I used the Susan Garrett 2x2 method which I really liked. I was worried about messing her up as well but I found the 2x2 method to be very easy to understand and use. I didn't buy her DVD (may in the future) I just used youtube videos. I used stick in the ground weaves and then bought a set of 6 later to use inside this winter.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I don't, actually. I think she's mostly kind of bored and if we're not introducing new information to her instead of just practicing for too long she's going to get really bored and flake.


Oh, just that a class of only weaves will be hard for her to stay interested in? I can see that. In some ways I like that we jump around and do some different things most weeks, so if a dog is scared or equipment or bored by it they get a break. On the other hand, I completely see the value in focusing on one thing.

I always thought Watson was easily bored, but I'm finding that when he completely understands expectations and enjoys the activity, he doesn't get bored. We took a precision heeling class online that basically involved left pivots (for us at least, since we were just starting out). The instructor even said that most dogs find this boring so once you get the basics you can move on to adding games into your heeling. Well, Watson loves doing those dang left pivots. It's like the most fun trick he knows. I think I just taught it so thoroughly and he knows exactly what to do, so he'll do it again and again.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Oh, just that a class of only weaves will be hard for her to stay interested in? I can see that. In some ways I like that we jump around and do some different things most weeks, so if a dog is scared or equipment or bored by it they get a break. On the other hand, I completely see the value in focusing on one thing.
> 
> I always thought Watson was easily bored, but I'm finding that when he completely understands expectations and enjoys the activity, he doesn't get bored. We took a precision heeling class online that basically involved left pivots (for us at least, since we were just starting out). The instructor even said that most dogs find this boring so once you get the basics you can move on to adding games into your heeling. Well, Watson loves doing those dang left pivots. It's like the most fun trick he knows. I think I just taught it so thoroughly and he knows exactly what to do, so he'll do it again and again.



Thud's sort of like that. He's got a couple of tricks he knows well and always gets a great amount of delight in doing them (spinning and giving a high five) because they're easy and drilled and how he earned a lot of food when he was little and they just make him derpily happy, unlike some of the other stuff. 

Kylie... No. Kylie does not drill. She's got a fantastic attention span _if she is interested_, but if things get too repetitive she's over it, done and starting to throw random things in to amuse herself. You ask her to sit five times, she'll do it four and the fifth is sit-speak-spin-situpandbeg-sit. Or she'll sit but then just stare and yap. That one's always fun.


----------



## Laurelin

Yay we broke our NQ streak. Finally. We took home the only p1 snookers Q of any height. It was a great run. Our gamblers went great except the gamble. We did get 1st but NQ. Jumpers I left her collar on accidentally so we got eliminated. Whoops.


----------



## melaka

It's been a long time since I posted in this thread. I was wondering what people thought of going back to agility post-injury. Has anyone done it with their dogs?

Buffy only did "fun" agility, but she and I both loved it. We did it for about 1.5-2 years, but stopped due to money reasons. Now, she seems to be fully recovered from her ACL tear/repair surgery and I find myself missing it again. (I was considering trying it again last year, before she got injured.) I'd probably give it a few more months before trying again anyway.

Our fun agility classes consisted of most of the same equipment, I think -- dog walk, tunnels, chute, A-frame, teeter, jumps, tire, table, weaves -- but in an indoor, smaller setting on foam floors. We were pretty limited with our courses, but the dogs loved it. She was usually one of the medium dogs in the class - not tearing through the course, but not the slowest either.

I worry about her injuring her other knee, since many dogs seem to tear their second ACL within a year or so, but I put her on joint supplements in the hopes of preventing that. Am I just fooling myself that she'll ever be able to do agility again?


----------



## CptJack

I would talk to your vet about it, but I know even in my 'real' agility classes that concessions are made for things like injury recovery and age of the dog (no jumping, lower jumps, skip this or that obstacle'. So if the vet thinks it's okay to do some of the things and the instructor is aware that there may be limits, I see no reason you couldn't go play. I find this particularly true since my vet ENCOURAGED us doing a lot of climbing with Bug to strengthen the muscles in her knees (like steep hills and he even mentioned the A-frame and dog walk as good things, but advised us to stay away from jumping).

But talk to the vet.


----------



## Laurelin

I have known a few dogs come back after ACL tears. I believe my trainers BC has torn his. One of my classmates is having some sort of surgery on his shih-poo and it may be ACL? I'm not sure. SHe'll be out of commission a while sadly.

My aussie friends are all really pushing the MAS idea haha. I do really love them... 

I wish I'd videod Summer's runs today but since it's a home trial all my friends were swamped. We were way understaffed and everyone had ring conflicts. I worked all day. We go back tomorrow.


----------



## melaka

Thanks to you both. Maybe I'll talk to our specialist about it. We didn't go to our regular vet for the surgery, and they are really only a low-cost vet anyway. I'll have to see what it takes to get back in touch with her surgeon again.

And I'm lucky that one of the parks that we go to has steep hills, which I think helps with her leg strength. And, I just remembered, it has several low walls that are similar to the dog walk that she has started going back on to again.


----------



## CoverTune

Corona and I are finally, slowly, making progress on the weaves. There's only about 3" between the sets of 2x2s here, and we started with a couple feet between them last week.







ETA: Why can I never get my videos to embed on this forum? Arg!


----------



## Laurelin

I have a great Little Old Dog.


summerribbons by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> I have a great Little Old Dog.
> 
> 
> summerribbons by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


Congrats!!!


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> I have a great Little Old Dog.
> 
> 
> summerribbons by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr



Good job both of you!


----------



## LoMD13

Great job Summer!!!! 

We're still on competition hiatus, I can't really seem to get Lola CONSISTENTLY psyched up in classes. Last week she was fantastic and into it, completely focused, This week she was slower but still OK. Sometimes she loves to work for toys, the next week she acts like I'm a complete fool for waving a toy in front of her face.


----------



## Laurelin

THanks guys. I could not ask for more from a dog that didn't even start real agility till she was 8 years old. She's a good little dog.


----------



## Kathyy

You go girl! Awesome Summer.

We went to a show and go this afternoon at Ginger's school. 4 fields, 2 completely separate and the 2 competition ones that had garage covers as shelter between where everybody wanted to crate their dog. One fenced ring was for dogs like Ginger not ready to run courses, just a chance to play on equipment. I set up the little xpen outside one of the competition rings for Max and Ginger with shade cloth over it. Ginger did a good job being quiet and was very observant the whole time. The BCs didn't bother her, it was the Belgian and the field lab that clearly worried her.

I took her into the baby field a couple times working on driving into the tunnel, not much improvement there, sending to the table just because she likes doing that, contacts were a flop but weaves were good. The field has a couple sets of channel weaves and she was getting it with them only 1" out from center. I just waited and got the field all to myself, heaven. My problem was rushing. Didn't want to take the field for more than 5 minutes and I wasn't patient with her so all we got done was practicing stuff she was already good at.

I think I picked her up when crossing the practice field to get to the baby field as a drivey large dog was working and I didn't want her to charge him but she was on the ground the rest of the day even walking past all the crated dogs between the competition rings. She was very good about coming away from the crates, kept trying to poke her nose in them all. Not a good idea!

Max had a great time and was such a good dog. This was his happy place when he was a baby dog and it was really nice to be able to take him back again. He is feeling so good he jumped a 16" jump this morning! *I* wasn't happy about that but so far so good.


----------



## elrohwen

Yay Summer!

I was going through pictures my dad took in February and wanted to post some from agility class.

Love how focused he is here. This is a rare sight. Haha









And proof that he knows how to jump, even if he thinks he doesn't.


----------



## Laurelin

Trying to decide if we want to enter a trial 3 hours away in May (I think the 24th or around then?) Closing date is coming up so need to decide quickly... If not there's no close USDAA trials until July. :/ Bummer about living in Oklahoma.

Next trial is TDAA on May 10-11. Already counting down the days! I hear TDAA is relatively easy compared to USDAA so maybe we can actually Q more. :whoo:

Our last jumpers run in USDAA this weekend was 0.8 seconds over time. So darn close! If we hadn't had those two little bobbles...


----------



## kadylady

<3 Watson!

My problem isn't lack of trials in the area...it's lack of money! There seem to be a decent amount of trials in this area and most are only about an hour or so away (perk of living in the middle of the state, drive more than 2 hours due east or west and you hit a big lake). At the beginning of the year I made a training/showing budget spreadsheet, entered all the trials that I definitely wanted to be at throughout the year (mainly club trials) and then filled in from there....pretty much at the end of it. We have another AKC trial in 2 weeks then will probably have a break til August, unless I magically find some more money!


----------



## CptJack

Class tonight was introduction of the wait table as an actual obstacle and letting the teeter drop further (we've started with it blocked up and just walking down with a couple of inches drop - it now starts level and drops half way). Kylie was unimpressed with the teeter, but isn't horrified of it or anything. Otherwise, things went well and I was informed that Kylie sent beautifully and to DO IT MORE. I still have to stay on top of her into and through the tunnel but she's pretty great at being sent ahead to the rest (though our sequences are still very, very simple). 

Resetting bars for her continues to be a PINTA.

There should be video either next week or the one after. May do video of both and maybe even the sending out to a jump contest the very last class and post what I've got at the end. Either way, video and/or photos are a coming.


----------



## CptJack

What agility equipment do you guys own? I have a tunnel. I need to buy at least a couple of jumps but am contemplating the whole set of four. To be honest, though, I want to buy or build everything - some prioritizing in what comes in when would be good though


----------



## Kathyy

I made jumps first then made obstacles as Sassy and I ran into trouble during class. Table, she kept running over the top of it rather than stopping, teeter because she was afraid of both the motion and the sound, tire because it is ever so much fun to go through all those other openings, weaves because they are hard to figure out in a single hour a week, mini contact trainer because the teeter is so different from the frame and walk, tunnel because I had so much trouble sending to it. Only ones I bought were the weaves after 3 home made PVC sets and the tunnel. I also made wings for the jumps as my first school was in a middle school yard and we had to unload and reload the truck before and after class so the instructors didn't like putting wings on. Trial courses will have wings! If I wanted to practice spreads I just put a couple jumps next to one another roughly the distance needed.

If you use 3/4" PVC you can use garden loppers to cut the pipe, don't need the PVC cutter. Make jumps like Watson's mom. I only glue them together if they start getting annoying and fall apart, just run a screw into the Ts on the spreader bar so the uprights stay more or less vertical.

I hate PVC weaves with a passion, made 3 sets of varying complexity over the years hoping THIS was the one that would work out. If you can stake them down maybe they would be marginally acceptable but the ground bar sticking up bothered even medium sized Sassy.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> What agility equipment do you guys own? I have a tunnel. I need to buy at least a couple of jumps but am contemplating the whole set of four. To be honest, though, I want to buy or build everything - some prioritizing in what comes in when would be good though


I have 5 jumps, a tunnel, a set of 6 weave poles and a set of 12 stick in the ground weave poles. We started with just the 1 jump when I signed up for my first class, I bought it from the club as it was required to have one in order to do the homework. Last summer I made the stick in the ground poles to start teaching weaves. This winter I bought the set of 6 weaves because stick in the grounds don't work in the house or when there is 2 feet of snow. I just bought the tunnel and a set of 4 jumps within the last 2 months or so, so that I could set up mini courses in the backyard. I started a subscription to clean run this winter and really wanted to be able to try all the stuff in there. 

As far as contact equipment goes, I have access to the club to work on that stuff. I did find an exercise step stool thing at my parents house that has worked really well for teaching and practicing 2o2o. I also use the stairs for that.

My recommendation would be jumps (either make or buy), you can practice so much with just a couple jumps.


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> I have 5 jumps, a tunnel, a set of 6 weave poles and a set of 12 stick in the ground weave poles. We started with just the 1 jump when I signed up for my first class, I bought it from the club as it was required to have one in order to do the homework. Last summer I made the stick in the ground poles to start teaching weaves. This winter I bought the set of 6 weaves because stick in the grounds don't work in the house or when there is 2 feet of snow. I just bought the tunnel and a set of 4 jumps within the last 2 months or so, so that I could set up mini courses in the backyard. I started a subscription to clean run this winter and really wanted to be able to try all the stuff in there.
> 
> As far as contact equipment goes, I have access to the club to work on that stuff. I did find an exercise step stool thing at my parents house that has worked really well for teaching and practicing 2o2o. I also use the stairs for that.
> 
> My recommendation would be jumps (either make or buy), you can practice so much with just a couple jumps.



Yeah, jumps are definitely next. I don't know if I want two or four. To be honest, four's probably overkill for the amount of space I have to work with (well, cleared space), but they're so bloody FUN. Stick in the ground weave poles come with the weaves class, but I *still* have no idea when those are except 'by invitation' and sometime this summer. If they're compatible with our intermediate agility class, I don't know, yet. I guess they have to be, at least sort of, since it's the same instructor but. Gargh.


----------



## elrohwen

I have 8 jumps that I made and that's it. They were pretty easy and much cheaper than the jumps I saw online. I followed the instructions pretty much exactly except I didn't glue the pieces together. I pounded everything together with a rubber mallet and they stay together well.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I have 8 jumps that I made and that's it. They were pretty easy and much cheaper than the jumps I saw online. I followed the instructions pretty much exactly except I didn't glue the pieces together. I pounded everything together with a rubber mallet and they stay together well.


I am *vaguely* considering making some but I'm afraid. On the other hand, Kylie's short. If I get really desperate I can use a couple of boxes, a stick and duct-tape. (I joke but I am so, so not good at putting things together.)


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I am *vaguely* considering making some but I'm afraid. On the other hand, Kylie's short. If I get really desperate I can use a couple of boxes, a stick and duct-tape. (I joke but I am so, so not good at putting things together.)


It's really not hard! You can get a PVC cutter cheaply (we found one for less than $10) and do it that way. It was even easier since we used the miter saw and cutting everything took us less than half an hour (for all 8 jumps). Literally just cut and stick the pieces together. I didn't glue or even put end caps on. It's so cheap! As the instructions say, it's about $12. I used colored tape to decorate the bars, so I didn't even have to get paint out.
http://www.instantagility.com/2008/04/14/bar-jump-or-hurdle/

I did order jump cups. I read various ways to make them and they sounded overly complicated or looked sloppy. Even those weren't crazy expensive.


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> It's really not hard! You can get a PVC cutter cheaply (we found one for less than $10) and do it that way. It was even easier since we used the miter saw and cutting everything took us less than half an hour (for all 8 jumps). Literally just cut and stick the pieces together. I didn't glue or even put end caps on. It's so cheap! As the instructions say, it's about $12. I used colored tape to decorate the bars, so I didn't even have to get paint out.
> http://www.instantagility.com/2008/04/14/bar-jump-or-hurdle/
> 
> I did order jump cups. I read various ways to make them and they sounded overly complicated or looked sloppy. Even those weren't crazy expensive.


My instructor showed me her PVC cutters last week...if I had known those things existed I totally would have made my own jumps rather than buying. One thing that I think I would do next time is buy the jump cup strips vs just single jump cups. I am going to mark my jumps with tape so I know where the heights are but jump cup strips would definitely be nice for having multiple dogs at different heights or setting double bars.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> My instructor showed me her PVC cutters last week...if I had known those things existed I totally would have made my own jumps rather than buying. One thing that I think I would do next time is buy the jump cup strips vs just single jump cups. I am going to mark my jumps with tape so I know where the heights are but jump cup strips would definitely be nice for having multiple dogs at different heights or setting double bars.


Yeah, I went back and forth on the strips vs cups. The strips were just way too expensive for doing 8 jumps, but I really like them. I ended up marking mine with sharpie and it was pretty easy. The cups are exactly 1" from the bottom to where the bar sits, so I just marked at 7", 11", 15", and 19" to get jump heights of 8, 12, 16, and 20 when I line up the bottom of the cups. 

One thing is that the minimum height of those jumps is 5" where the support bar crosses. For medium sized dogs that doesn't matter, but for very small dogs that is actually a jump. It might be an issue if you were starting out a tiny dog and just wanted them to step over a pole.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Yeah, I went back and forth on the strips vs cups. The strips were just way too expensive for doing 8 jumps, but I really like them. I ended up marking mine with sharpie and it was pretty easy. The cups are exactly 1" from the bottom to where the bar sits, so I just marked at 7", 11", 15", and 19" to get jump heights of 8, 12, 16, and 20 when I line up the bottom of the cups.
> 
> One thing is that the minimum height of those jumps is 5" where the support bar crosses. For medium sized dogs that doesn't matter, but for very small dogs that is actually a jump. It might be an issue if you were starting out a tiny dog and just wanted them to step over a pole.


It looks like Kylie's ultimate jump height is going to be 12". In classes she's still jumping 8 and the other dogs are jumping about 12. But, well, it is still the beginning class, you know? Either way, that's a nice easy height to work out and work with.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> It looks like Kylie's ultimate jump height is going to be 12". In classes she's still jumping 8 and the other dogs are jumping about 12. But, well, it is still the beginning class, you know? Either way, that's a nice easy height to work out and work with.


I think Watson will do 20" eventually. He's currently doing 8-12" - he is totally comfortable at 8" and we're still working on his comfort level with 12".


----------



## Laurelin

Have you wicketed Kylie? 

It also depends on the organization. Summer measures into 4-12" depending on the org and if they require veterans to downgrade (and a couple orgs are now double downgrading for double digit veterans, I'm not sure how you can jump lower than 4" though). In USDAA she'd measure into 12" jump height. She CAN jump 12, but really? She's 10 and 9.5-9.75 inches in height. She runs performance, which is 8". She could run veterans but USDAA makes you run masters courses if you're avet. Dumb if you ask me because just because the dog is old doesn't mean you've been training them their entire life. 

Everywhere else she jumps 4" as a veteran.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Have you wicketed Kylie?
> 
> It also depends on the organization. Summer measures into 4-12" depending on the org and if they require veterans to downgrade (and a couple orgs are now double downgrading for double digit veterans, I'm not sure how you can jump lower than 4" though). In USDAA she'd measure into 12" jump height. She CAN jump 12, but really? She's 10 and 9.5-9.75 inches in height. She runs performance, which is 8". She could run veterans but USDAA makes you run masters courses if you're avet. Dumb if you ask me because just because the dog is old doesn't mean you've been training them their entire life.
> 
> Everywhere else she jumps 4" as a veteran.



I haven't officially had her measured yet, no, but she's measuring right around 12" according to my less than precise measurements with a tape measure, carpenter's level, sharpie and wall. Which looking around at regs means she could be jumping 8 or 12 and that's assuming I can measure. I'm also going to have to register her with NADAC, I think. That and AKC are about all that's around and I've already done the AKC reg thing. It'd be nice if they'd take money online though.

And yeah, that USDAA rule makes no sense to me at all.


----------



## Laurelin

I thought Summer was 11" till she got wicketed. It was definitely a surprise!


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I thought Summer was 11" till she got wicketed. It was definitely a surprise!


I'd really like to wicket Watson. The only measurement I have is me stacking him and my husband measuring with a measuring tape and straight edge. Looking at the jump height lists I doubt he would be in the 16" category though, unfortunately, even if my measurements are off.

ETA: Actually, he could be 16" for CPE if he's under 20". For AKC he would have to be under 18" which I don't think is possible. Those are the two big ones near me.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey has had 6 official measurements now (PIA for dog who hates being touched by strangers).

She has measured within a quarter inch of 19.5" every time. Which means CPE her jump height is 16", AKC her jump height is 20". I jump her at 20" in both organizations, she jumps much better at 20 than 16.


----------



## GrinningDog

I jump Gypsy at 16" in practice. I was told by the instructor that she's was right on the border of 16" and 20" for CPE. I'd really like to have her officially measured, to see what we'll be at in AKC.

Speaking of which, I contacted an AKC facility in FL near to where I'm moving that looked good. Turns out they don't do advanced classes.  The woman I spoke to told me she'll help me get in contact with other trainers. Hopefully something will come of that. I REALLYREALLY want to continue this with Gypsy. She loves it, and we've both improved tremendously. The only reason we haven't entered trials yet is because I've been so busy prepping for my wedding and then The Big Move.


----------



## Kathyy

NADAC uses a simple U in the various cut off heights rather than finding the dog's actual height. After fumbling with a yardstick and such I cut an old rectangle of PVC into a 14" wicket. Doh. Try cutting a U from cardboard or tacking a couple of boards together to make such a thing. And do work on this during class and at any show and gos you attend, as Zoey's mom found out measuring is not always easy for dogs to tolerate. Judges try really hard to be careful and nice but that line can get so long. Sassy was fine but Max was a horror being so fearful of everybody and everything. Ginger likes people but is very suspicious of things. Hoping learning to tolerate this less scary type of wicket will help with the precise one all the other organizations use. 

When 19" Max was jumping 20" in USDAA I jumped him at 20" in CPE even though he measured for 16" just so he wouldn't get confused. When we were working through teeter issues I jumped him at 20" in USDAA Performance as well. I could go back through the lower levels even though he was up to Masters Championship. Just have to stick to one or the other for a given trial.

Lucky me Ginger measures precisely 14". If she is on her toes getting measured she would jump 16" USDAA Championship, if not, 14". I thought she would shrink a little losing all that weight but her front legs are under her body more, guess that is making up for the loss of fat over her shoulders.

I have all that agility stuff but only set up a few obstacles at a time. 40x15' is enough room for 4 jumps to 2 jumps and 2 long obstacles easily.

Good to have at least a single jump. I don't think I am but I am really one sided. Working on rear crosses this week, going to the right makes sense to me and we are getting it but going left is really odd for me. Poor Ginger.


----------



## elrohwen

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> I REALLYREALLY want to continue this with Gypsy. She loves it, and we've both improved tremendously. The only reason we haven't entered trials yet is because I've been so busy prepping for my wedding and then The Big Move.


I hope you find something! I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be *some place* training advanced agility, but you never know. I have to drive an hour away for where I train and it's really the only place nearby who trains more than "fun" classes.



Kathyy said:


> NADAC uses a simple U in the various cut off heights rather than finding the dog's actual height. After fumbling with a yardstick and such I cut an old rectangle of PVC into a 14" wicket. Doh. Try cutting a U from cardboard or tacking a couple of boards together to make such a thing. And do work on this during class and at any show and gos you attend, as Zoey's mom found out measuring is not always easy for dogs to tolerate. Judges try really hard to be careful and nice but that line can get so long. Sassy was fine but Max was a horror being so fearful of everybody and everything. Ginger likes people but is very suspicious of things. Hoping learning to tolerate this less scary type of wicket will help with the precise one all the other organizations use.


That's a good idea. I'm hoping that Watson has no issues with measuring since he's been in the conformation ring enough times. For the most part he actually stands still now as the judge approaches, with only a little wiggling. Haha. It's a good idea to try something over his back like that.


----------



## elrohwen

All this talk of jump heights has given me an idea. I think Watson partially runs off in class because he's nervous/uncomfortable with jumping. Sure sometimes he's just overstimulated, and other times he sees a dog he wants to meet, but I think the jumping thing might be his real reason. At home we've been working with one jump (still setting up the jump chute outside) and at 8" he's happy as a clam, but at 12" he still balks sometimes for no "good" reason (meaning I set him up at an appropriate distance, sometimes as a grid with a ground pole, etc). I'm going to put him back to 8" at class and see if that improves his focus. I can work on jump height later, but the running off is really frustrating.


----------



## SDRRanger

Had class #2 today. Outside again. 

Did work on tunnel to jump. Ranger jumps out so fast and with so much "enthusiasm" that I had to position myself between exit and jump and walk to the jump. He did better after that with his concentration. 

He loved the teeter again and has no problems so far with the crashing sound. I'm not sure he actually notices it, or if the thoughts of food block it out since when we originally learned the teeter in another class (last summer) it took us a lot to get him used to it and it definitely wasn't as high as it is now. 

The A-frame was good with him only bypassing it once (seems to do it at least once pet class) and we did some targeting using the ramp by the stairs. 

My favourite part of the whole class was when one of the shelties wouldn't stick with his handler (wanted to play with the other sheltie) and Ranger stayed in his "settle" focusing on me...while I clicked and treated over and over again lol. I know how hard it is for him to stay focused when confusion is happening elsewhere and he was a star.


----------



## Kathyy

Good job Ranger! A settle, I can only dream. Sassy had an amazing stay, Max an acceptable one and Ginger sort of floats off at best unless she is showing off for teacher.

'Wicketed' Ginger today. She is well over the 14" one and under the 16" one. My itty bitty girl is 15" tall! How the heck did that happen? That is only 4" shorter than Max.

Well anyway we had the best practice tonight at home. She was teasing me with a toy and *I* got all engaged. I used it as a tug reward working on our rear cross homework and we got better at it - both sides even. Then I used it for a short sequence and some weave practice. It was really hard for her to weave even though I hid the toy behind me. Max was super jealous so I asked him to do a couple tunnels for the toy and he did. That is the longest play/train session I have had with her to date, maybe 5-6 minutes long. 

Now I am going to go mow the lawn as I moved everything off the poor grass.


----------



## SDRRanger

Thanks Kathyy. I find that when it isn't the person's turn they tend to just stand in line waiting...if I do that with Ranger he just gets more and more bottled until he starts barking at the dogs taking equipment (especially the tunnel) and generally being annoying. We've worked hard on a settle command since I got him (he can sit, lay down, or switch between the two, but he's not allowed to stand). We do hand targeting, high fives, watch me, shake, and sit/down commands in between the settling to keep him from overflowing.


----------



## elrohwen

Big vent coming.

So discouraged. If I hadn't already paid for the next set of classes (starting next week) I would consider quitting agility. I'm also about ready to quit nosework, but I paid for a NW1 trial at the end of May. Watson has zero engagement or focus most of the time and it's so frustrating. He was really improving in everything around Jan/Feb and I was hopeful, but he's slid so far back. At home our training sessions have actually been better than ever, but go to a training facility and add other dogs and he just doesn't care what I want him to do. 

Last night while we were waiting our turn I had him doing tricks and stringing behavior together, I would reward, then release and on the release he ran out and slammed into the end of the leash in the direction of other dogs. Over and over and over. Dog, you're on a 4ft leash - where do you think you're going to go?

My agility instructor brought out the spray bottle again. She hasn't used it in months, but every time we would take our turn he would sprint off and try to visit another dog (this dog has been in our class for weeks and just now Watson is obsessed with him). She didn't even spray him, just stood by the other dogs and held it, and he turned on a dime and came right back to me. He actually rocked the hardest sequence we've ever done because he knew she had the bottle at that point. What the heck?! It's not like he doesn't understand what I'm asking, or enjoy it when he's doing it. 

I know some people are really unhappy about using any kind of punisher in agility, but honestly, if it works and we can phase it out, I don't care. It's basically just making other dogs and running around less reinforcing than what I'm doing. I'm less enthused by the idea of crating since timeouts have never worked with him in his life and I don't see them working now - he just doesn't put action and consequence together when it comes to crating (probably because crating happens too long after his behavior).

I'm just kind of feeling done with the whole training thing. I always thought that if I put him through puppy class, and then into appropriate obedience classes, that he would become a well behaved dog and be able to work with me on a basic level (not even talking competing). I've tried so hard not to overface him, and I've done a ton of things right as far as trying to get his focus, teach him to calm down, and teach him to work around other dogs. I'm sure things would be better if I was a better trainer, but I'm kind of at a loss for what else I should be doing most of the time since I've tried so hard to be consistent and do the right things for so long. I pulled him out of obedience classes at the beginning of the year because he had hit a plateau, and now I'm considering pulling him out of agility and nosework too. I don't know, maybe if I just wait until he's 4 years old he will be over some of this crap. I never thought adolescence would last so long and be so hard, honestly.


----------



## Kyllobernese

My Shih Tzu x Maltese are all under 12 inches so they start out jumping 10 inches. You can put them in Specials so they jump 6 inches but that is all they are eligible for in AAC. If you put them into Specials for one year, they can go into Veteran classes at five years of age otherwise they have to wait till they are seven to drop them down to 6 inches.

I am afraid Kris is going to have to jump the maximum of 26 inches and even though I know she is capable of it, I may (if I get that far) start her right out in Specials so she only has to jump 22 inches. Right now I have never jumped her higher than about 12 inches in practice.


----------



## Kathyy

Watson is having a long adolescence but don't gun dogs mature late? Sassy was apparently a lab mix and really didn't come into her own until she was FIVE years old. I don't know if it was all her or me being inexperienced with dogs or what but we were a team after she hit five and butting heads before that. 

Well I did better than I thought I would at class last night. Teacher is breaking it down and we are doing advanced sequences already. So last night was serpentines. I adore them, they are so much fun to figure out how to handle elegantly and I am so happy to have the chance to present them to Ginger. She was such a sponge and precisely did as I asked. Of course what I asked and what I MEANT to ask were usually two completely different things. We are going to have fun at home this week!

She was better about wait before release to the dog walk last night and was amazing on the 1' tall teeter. She was loving her food dispensing teacher but not dashing to her every time she was off leash like the MAS in class. The MAS was quite a clown which I loved to see as he was quite shut down when I met them. The rough collie, wow. If he can do dogwalks like he does them in class chins will drop when he runs courses.

Before class Ginger was going through 2" offset weaves really well, hopping very efficiently. She just thinks 12 are a couple too many like a whole lot of novice dogs!

Tunnels are our downfall. I am going to have to work up something so she thinks they are the best thing ever.


----------



## CptJack

I am not the expert agility person here, but frankly?

There's nothing wrong with taking a break when frustration outweighs fun. Do what you've paid for already, reassess where you are, and if you want to stop for a while? Stop for a while. He's obviously doing well in some areas (conformation in particular) and he's obviously a good dog. Spend some time with him, *enjoy him*, remember that you enjoy him, and just... take some pressure off YOU.


----------



## elrohwen

Kathyy said:


> Watson is having a long adolescence but don't gun dogs mature late? Sassy was apparently a lab mix and really didn't come into her own until she was FIVE years old. I don't know if it was all her or me being inexperienced with dogs or what but we were a team after she hit five and butting heads before that.


Yeah, I guess I've always known that, but didn't realize what it actually meant. Haha. Growing up I only had schnauzers and the females were mature at a very young age, while the males took until about a year. I figured there would be a few rough months, but he's been a butthead from 9 months until now at 21 months. I was so excited about his progress a couple months ago and that makes the back slide even harder I guess. Can I just have my puppy back? He was such a cool little puppy.

I can't tell how bad our instructor thinks it is. She's experienced in all sorts of breeds and she just says he's a typical adolescent boy and we'll get it eventually, but maybe she secretly thinks we're a lost cause. She has a demeanor of a kindergarten teacher so she's way too nice to say that out loud. I just watch my classmates working on their own handling while I work on getting my dog to take one jump (at only 8") without running away like a lunatic. 

I take it out on myself too and think that if I were more consistent, or worked harder on focus in lots of environments, and really really put in the effort he would be better. But then I think about how much effort I have put in, and how hard I try to be consistent and do the right things with him, and then I feel kind of hopeless. He's a sweet dog and a great pet, but I don't feel like we've made much (if any) progress in any dog sports in the past 9 months. I would have said nosework was going well, but now that's a mess too.

I don't want to quit classes because I feel like we're not going to make any progress without facing our failures and working through them, but part of me thinks he's just not mature enough and I'm beating my head against a wall.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I am not the expert agility person here, but frankly?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with taking a break when frustration outweighs fun. Do what you've paid for already, reassess where you are, and if you want to stop for a while? Stop for a while. He's obviously doing well in some areas (conformation in particular) and he's obviously a good dog. Spend some time with him, *enjoy him*, remember that you enjoy him, and just... take some pressure off YOU.


Thanks for that. It sucks because I do enjoy classes and I enjoy doing stuff with him, and he obviously enjoys going places and doing things (though what he wants to do might not be what I want to do once we get there). These last few weeks have just been so frustrating and not fun at all. I go in to each class and think "We're going to be awesome this week! He's going to get it together!" and then it all falls apart again.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

I'm telling you - taking 6 months off with Kimma from ANYTHING was the best move I've ever made. All we worked was focus/recall, tricks, and we just went places. No expectations in new locations, we just went for walks and she got to explore from the comfort of her 6' leash. Even in my yard she was on a long line. When we did go back to class, it was a basic obedience type of thing (required at the new facility we wanted to train at) and all it covered she had mastered at home so we just worked on focus and playing together. She didn't have the prettiest heel, or the fastest down, but she just had fun. It took the pressure off of me for sure, and we went back in to agility with no real expectations. 

Even now with Jari, if he bolts, I just use it as an opportunity to train. We play recall games during training, and when I'm not directly focusing on him he's on leash or in a controlled down/stay. However we ARE in private classes, which I think helps a ton. Eventually we will move in to group class, but for now the dogs coming and going during other classes at the center where we train is enough of a distraction for him. We will also do like one jump with HUGE reward if things get bad. Or just a piece of contact equipment with a huge reward. No punishment needed and I keep sessions short. He gets 10 minutes, Kimma gets around 30, then he gets the final 10-20 of our hour private. I'm also lucky that I have a great positive trainer with a sense of humor and creative mind


----------



## elrohwen

Finkie_Mom said:


> I'm telling you - taking 6 months off with Kimma from ANYTHING was the best move I've ever made. All we worked was focus/recall, tricks, and we just went places. No expectations in new locations, we just went for walks and she got to explore from the comfort of her 6' leash. Even in my yard she was on a long line. When we did go back to class, it was a basic obedience type of thing (required at the new facility we wanted to train at) and all it covered she had mastered at home so we just worked on focus and playing together. She didn't have the prettiest heel, or the fastest down, but she just had fun. It took the pressure off of me for sure, and we went back in to agility with no real expectations.


It's great to hear from someone who has done this. Part of me feels like we won't get past this dog obsession if we don't keep going to classes, but maybe that's completely false. Especially since he needs some maturity, time alone might help a lot.



> Even now with Jari, if he bolts, I just use it as an opportunity to train. We play recall games during training, and when I'm not directly focusing on him he's on leash or in a controlled down/stay. However we ARE in private classes, which I think helps a ton.


As far as I know there are no opportunities for private classes right now. 90% of his problem is other dogs, so I'm sure privates would help. He's never off leash unless we're working and I am 100% focused on him. I have worked recall games until I'm blue in the face and he is great, but once he decides that he's "not listening" it doesn't matter what I do. He knows that I'm calling and he chooses to close his ears and run around. It's a matter of self-reinforcing by zooming around and especially visiting other dogs. At this point recall games aren't the answer, but I'm still not sure what it. He doesn't just do this in agility and will do it at home too which is why he's not allowed off leash anymore.



> I'm also lucky that I have a great positive trainer with a sense of humor and creative mind


As much as I love positive training, I'm not against mild punishment either. I've been chastised for using any punishment in agility by people who then recommend crating for a dog running off, which is still punishment (and not one my dog responds to, IME). I have never seen my instructor use anything but positive methods with every other dog we've been in classes with (probably 15+ dogs at this point), but even she is at a loss with Watson sometimes. One of the reasons I want to quit is that even the instructor doesn't know what to do with him, so how am I supposed to figure it out?


----------



## CptJack

I have no idea if this is going to make you feel better or not, but I'm going to give it a go.

There is a golden in Kylie's class, handled by someone who already runs with and competes with two other dogs -one of them a BEAGLE, of all things - and is putting agility titles on those dogs. She shows the golden in conformation and also does (and does well at) rally. The dog started agility classes knowing the targeting, the directional commands, the positions (two on two off), and a slew of other stuff (obedience and tricks - beautiful heel on that dog). He started the foundations class with us when he was 9 months old, and is something like 14-15 months old now. 

The last two classes, he has blown obstacles, been released to do things and torn off to pounce on other dogs or to the other end of the building, is failing to recall, going to visit the instructor and other handlers, and is just a hare-brained dummy.

The instructor and owner are just laughing at it off, sending him back to repeat or having him start closer or work on leash and are snarking about the dog in gentle ways that amount to 'young dogs are morons, he'll be fantastic when he's three and has some maturity' and 'you should have seen the lab when he was this age!'. I don't think what you're seeing is at ALL abnormal. Watson isn't even 2 yet.

And while this is going to sound harsh: I don't have a problem with the mild use of aversives but I think that one way or the other you have to get the pressure off you and him, or you're going to end up creating a situation where both of you are miserable and that's going to do you both more harm than good. If that means stepping back your expectations of ever putting a title or entering a trial with him, going back a few class levels with him, or taking 6 months or a year off doing classes, I don't know - But you sound HARRIED and that's really not a good place to be.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> The instructor and owner are just laughing at it off, sending him back to repeat or having him start closer or work on leash and are snarking about the dog in gentle ways that amount to 'young dogs are morons, he'll be fantastic when he's three and has some maturity' and 'you should have seen the lab when he was this age!'. I don't think what you're seeing is at ALL abnormal. Watson isn't even 2 yet.


That does make me feel better. That is exactly how my instructor has had me handle him running off and she doesn't seem overly bothered by it. I just have no frame of reference since I haven't had a dog like him before, and in all of the classes we've been in I haven't seen dogs like him (possibly those people just stop going to classes! hah) I guess I don't trust that he will grow out of this stuff, but maybe I should.



> And while this is going to sound harsh: I don't have a problem with the mild use of aversives but I think that one way or the other you have to get the pressure off you and him, or you're going to end up creating a situation where both of you are miserable and that's going to do you both more harm than good. If that means stepping back your expectations of ever putting a title or entering a trial with him, going back a few class levels with him, or taking 6 months or a year off doing classes, I don't know - But you sound HARRIED and that's really not a good place to be.


Yeah, I know, you're completely right. I really have no expectations of trialing him in anything at this point, except nosework (which may crash and burn anyway), though in the back of my head I have expectations for "someday" and I feel like if we quit now we'll never get there. I can't go back to an easier class because this is the easiest class. Really my only option is to try and make private lessons happen, or just drop out for a while. The last month has been really hard with him, so yeah, I'm kind of all over the place and not happy with how any class is going. Maybe it's time to step back and take a break once we're done with everything we've paid for.


----------



## Laurelin

To me it sounds like he's being pushed too far too fast maybe. If jumping isn't that rewarding to him and he's struggling then maybe he needs to go slower? It's hard to say from behind a screen without seeing him. Maybe instead of a break dropping down to foundations? I know a dog in person that I really think would do so much better if they'd drop him down to a beginner class. If you can't do foundations in class, maybe it's best to work at home or try an online course?


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> To me it sounds like he's being pushed too far too fast maybe. If jumping isn't that rewarding to him and he's struggling then maybe he needs to go slower? It's hard to say from behind a screen without seeing him. Maybe instead of a break dropping down to foundations? I know a dog in person that I really think would do so much better if they'd drop him down to a beginner class. If you can't do foundations in class, maybe it's best to work at home or try an online course?


Problem is that we *are* in a beginner class. Haha. He's only jumping 8" (which is the height he seems comfortable at, both at home and in class) and he's rewarded after every jump. We only do 1-3 jumps at a time and I set them up like individual jumps rather than sequences (rewarding after each one, etc). There aren't any more basic foundations classes, unfortunately, though everything I do with him in class is at the foundations level really even when other people are working on handling foundations or making things into short sequences. Every class is based on "Can you do this single jump/obstacle at an easy level without running away from me? Yay! Jackpot!" and he's not able to do that lately unless it's something on leash.

That's really why I'm so disappointed. I would have no problem dropping him down a level, but he is at the beginner level. If this is too much for him, the only other option is to drop out. I like going to classes and doing things with him, and he seems to really enjoy going to classes (though he enjoys running up to other dogs more than doing what I'm interested in doing). It just makes me sad to think of quitting everything.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know after working with my Shih Tzu x Maltese, which seem to mature a lot faster than Kris and were so easy to train, I have had a real struggle with Kris. I was planning on starting her in Agility this year (she is 16 months old now) but think it would be a bit of a disaster so I am sticking with Rally and Obedience right now. I keep expecting her to do better but she is taking a long time to mature. Remmy was trialing at 18 months and had his Starters Titles in 7 trials.

What I have found is that even if you stop doing Agility for a period of time, my dogs do not seem to forget what they have learned. I have backed off on Remmy as he was getting bad for having the zoomies in his first class at every trial which is a form of stress and may not even trial him this year. He is in Masters (except for Snooker) which does make the courses tougher as well.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Problem is that we *are* in a beginner class. Haha. He's only jumping 8" (which is the height he seems comfortable at, both at home and in class) and he's rewarded after every jump. We only do 1-3 jumps at a time and I set them up like individual jumps rather than sequences (rewarding after each one, etc). There aren't any more basic foundations classes, unfortunately, though everything I do with him in class is at the foundations level really even when other people are working on handling foundations or making things into short sequences. Every class is based on "Can you do this single jump/obstacle at an easy level without running away from me? Yay! Jackpot!" and he's not able to do that lately unless it's something on leash.
> 
> That's really why I'm so disappointed. I would have no problem dropping him down a level, but he is at the beginner level. If this is too much for him, the only other option is to drop out. I like going to classes and doing things with him, and he seems to really enjoy going to classes (though he enjoys running up to other dogs more than doing what I'm interested in doing). It just makes me sad to think of quitting everything.


I don't think you have to quit everything, but I do think that if this is the lowest level agility class you can get to there is an issue with the way the classes are structured - which is 200% not your fault - and maybe trying to find a _foundations_ class online that focuses on off leash handling and body awareness would benefit you both - though obviously you wouldn't have the benefit of a class setting. 

I know all classes are set up differently, but things like sending to a target (no obstacle at all), going out around a bucket (or tree) and coming back to get a treat (while you're standing close enough to lure at first, or on leash), recalling with the distractions of other dogs moving around, food and toy distractions, and doing two on two off WITHOUT running the obstacle (just positioning on it) don't sound like things that your current class has ever really done. It sounds like the kind of things he would benefit enormously from working on while he is gaining maturity (which, yeah, you should have faith that he will gain because he will - watching golden go from rock-star to doofus makes me feel worlds better about Thud, too). 

So, my advice? Stay in the classes you've paid for but work on that kind of thing at home and take it everywhere you can to work on distractions with those things, but build it up fairly slowly. We had 2 MONTHS of sending out around a bucket before the next class made it 'send out to a jump'. 

All of that said, though again: the golden did amazingly in all of those foundations and right now is just NOT AT HOME. He'd rather go see his dad (in the room watching), or another dog, or try to get the abandoned ball out of the equipment cage, or try to get somebody else to give him pets or treats than work. Because his brain fell out and he's a teenage boy with balls and what're you going to do?


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I don't think you have to quit everything, but I do think that if this is the lowest level agility class you can get to there is an issue with the way the classes are structured - which is 200% not your fault - and maybe trying to find a _foundations_ class online that focuses on off leash handling and body awareness would benefit you both - though obviously you wouldn't have the benefit of a class setting.
> 
> I know all classes are set up differently, but things like sending to a target (no obstacle at all), going out around a bucket (or tree) and coming back to get a treat (while you're standing close enough to lure at first, or on leash), recalling with the distractions of other dogs moving around, food and toy distractions, and doing two on two off WITHOUT running the obstacle (just positioning on it) don't sound like things that your current class has ever really done. It sounds like the kind of things he would benefit enormously from working on while he is gaining maturity (which, yeah, you should have faith that he will gain because he will - watching golden go from rock-star to doofus makes me feel worlds better about Thud, too).
> 
> So, my advice? Stay in the classes you've paid for but work on that kind of thing at home and take it everywhere you can to work on distractions with those things, but build it up fairly slowly. We had 2 MONTHS of sending out around a bucket before the next class made it 'send out to a jump'.
> 
> All of that said, though again: the golden did amazingly in all of those foundations and right now is just NOT AT HOME. He'd rather go see his dad (in the room watching), or another dog, or try to get the abandoned ball out of the equipment cage, or try to get somebody else to give him pets or treats than work. Because his brain fell out and he's a teenage boy with balls and what're you going to do?


He knows foundations stuff though - the problem is the other dogs. I've worked on all sorts of stuff with him at home and he's awesome, and then he gets into a class environment and falls apart and can't focus unless I'm 5ft away and attached by a leash. When the instructor pulled out the spray bottle and stood with it near the other dogs, he was perfect and understood exactly what I wanted. He understands my cues, but he's really not interested in me or what I'm doing. We've also played recall games a million times, but once he has decided to turn off, he's just not going to listen. His eyes glaze over and he decides to zoom - I've seen it at home and in class. If it's a game that I've set up, like a restrained recall, or recalling between two people, he's fantastic and having fun, but once he's decided to zoom, there's no point in calling him until he's done. He's just mentally not available.

We did all of the foundations stuff in class, and we continue to do them now every class. It's not like we're running full sequences - it's all stuff about driving to targets, 2o2o, front crosses, and wrapping around things. As soon as the leash is off he is gone - doesn't matter what we're doing (he will stay, and he will do the first thing I ask, but then he won't come back to me after). He would not be able to go out around a cone any more than he's able to jump an 8" jump right now, but at home he could do both things perfectly and happily. There really isn't anywhere else I can have him off leash to practice these things either, other than inside my house. He's not all that distracted by places that are dog free. For example, he can't focus in nosework anymore and only wants to sniff the footprints of other dogs. I took him to a feed store that he hasn't been to in over a year, put out some hides, and he was fantastic and focused despite new smells, people walking around, and cars zipping by. I don't know how to address the dog issue without going to classes, but I no longer know how to make him successful in classes either, so that's why I think we should quit. If we quit agility and nosework, we're kind of out of options for things. I pulled him out of obedience classes for the same reason in January (and the obedience classes were super low pressure, not competition focused classes)


----------



## elrohwen

Kyllobernese said:


> I know after working with my Shih Tzu x Maltese, which seem to mature a lot faster than Kris and were so easy to train, I have had a real struggle with Kris. I was planning on starting her in Agility this year (she is 16 months old now) but think it would be a bit of a disaster so I am sticking with Rally and Obedience right now. I keep expecting her to do better but she is taking a long time to mature. Remmy was trialing at 18 months and had his Starters Titles in 7 trials.
> 
> What I have found is that even if you stop doing Agility for a period of time, my dogs do not seem to forget what they have learned. I have backed off on Remmy as he was getting bad for having the zoomies in his first class at every trial which is a form of stress and may not even trial him this year. He is in Masters (except for Snooker) which does make the courses tougher as well.


Glad to know others with more experience have the same issues! It's tough for me to just believe he'll grow out of it with me *doing* something. I guess I like to fix problems and I don't trust that they will fix themselves. 

I'm glad you and Kris have a sport you enjoy! I'm considering going to back to obedience classes which we haven't done since January since he reached a plateau and wasn't doing very well there either. Maybe he would like to switch things up.


----------



## kadylady

So this may be a way out there idea that may not even be doable or on the right track but it popped in my head so I figured I would share...

I feel like you have described Watson as being somewhat of a clingy dog? And I know that the thrill of the other dogs is way more rewarding than anything you are doing right now. I know you said crating or implementing a timeout doesn't work for him. But what if there was a way for you to leave him when he takes off? As in leave the building without him, or hide somewhere he can't see or hear you? He runs off to visit, you call him once or twice, doesn't listen, he finally comes back to find you and you are gone? I just wonder if that would do anything in his mind to make running off and visiting less rewarding? Like I said it's way out there and may not even be doable or may not even work, but just a thought I figured I might as well share.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> So this may be a way out there idea that may not even be doable or on the right track but it popped in my head so I figured I would share...
> 
> I feel like you have described Watson as being somewhat of a clingy dog? And I know that the thrill of the other dogs is way more rewarding than anything you are doing right now. I know you said crating or implementing a timeout doesn't work for him. But what if there was a way for you to leave him when he takes off? As in leave the building without him, or hide somewhere he can't see or hear you? He runs off to visit, you call him once or twice, doesn't listen, he finally comes back to find you and you are gone? I just wonder if that would do anything in his mind to make running off and visiting less rewarding? Like I said it's way out there and may not even be doable or may not even work, but just a thought I figured I might as well share.


You know, I have totally thought of this and my husband also thought of it, so it's not crazy! So far I haven't asked the instructor because some of the dogs don't like him and I wouldn't want to leave him to harass them while I run out of sight. However, I think those dogs are moving up to a more advanced class, so it might be possible starting this week. In theory I really do think it could work - I just need to figure out if it's practical. I know that outside if I call he might glance at me and keep going, but if I call and then hide he gets anxious and has to find me.


----------



## MrsBoats

Ocean CRUSHED it in NADAC agility this past Saturday...and Q'ed in 5 out of 5 classes!! It was my best agility day ever with any dog. He Q'ed in Open Jumpers, Novice Touch and Go, Novice Regular, Novice Weavers, and got his Open Tunnelers title (and now can play in Elite Tunnelers with the "grown ups!")

OMG....he and I were so on as a team and his Open Jumpers run was beautiful...and 5.73 yards per second. He was flying! I keep forgetting he's only 2...OMG, he's ONLY 2! (Lars was a 2 months away from 3 when he set foot for the very first time into an agility show ring.) I am so excited about where he and I might go with agility. 

Here's my little lightning bug with his haul from the perfect game he pitched!


----------



## elrohwen

Huge congrats to you and O!


----------



## CptJack

Agility class tonight...

I wanted to hug the golden's owner/handler. Every time we'd set up to do a sequence, he'd do one obstacle and then dash off. This dog was ROCKING IT until the past few classes and I just... think I was reminded so much of Watson and Elrohwen's frustration that I really, really wanted to hug the stuffing out of her. Instead I made a joke about teenage boy dogs and hope it helped. Her sense of humor with this stuff's wearing thin, though.

Kylie didn't do horribly, but she actually blew past a jump once to go to the tunnel which was... new. Missed the dog walk 'entrance' once, but otherwise was pretty typically decent Kylie. Handling exercises earlier in class got a little more advanced with pulling the dog into tighter corners and past one jump to hit another. It was actually pretty fun.

I'm uploading video of tonight's class, now. Trying to decide if I'm brave enough to show it or not given that my pants were falling off and I look like crap, but well. I probably will.


----------



## CptJack

All right, here's me sucking it up.






Very last thing we did in class before closing, and I've had the flu for a week - and... screw the justifications. Have video.


----------



## elrohwen

Kylie is awesome! You guys did great. I love the floofy tail.

And I totally sympathize with the owner of the golden in your class. It helps to know there are others out there going through the same thing. For whatever reason the only adolescents in our classes have been females and except for some puppy-brain moments they are pretty good.


----------



## SDRRanger

Yay O  so glad he had such a fantastic day, and you did too! Those are the days that keep you going through the ones where you fall over your own feet lol. 

CptJack: Kylie is such a little awesome bundle of dog  It looks like she really enjoys it. Your obstacle handling looks so composed and correct. I hope Ranger can get to that point instead of blasting through everything like he's on fire and OMGWHOCARESABOUTTHATHAVEYOUSEENTHELEAF?!

Ranger cut his toe on the weekend (possibly could have needed stitches, but seems to be healing) so I don't think we're going to make class this week  I don't think it could handle him rocketing around, but I am going to bring him for them to check and see if we can do something at least (even if that's just standing in a corner going through his commands.


----------



## CptJack

"Composed and correct". ROFL. I'm very blessed with a dog who will not go faster than I can handle and who cares if I am likely to fall on my face, I think. Seriously, I was passing out on my feet by the time we did that (it was the last run of the class and I have been crazy sick all week). Also, you haven't seen me trying to do a front cross ;-) (But thank you. I"m proud of that little dog)

No, seriously, my favorite part of the class was what didn't make it. We had a tunnel set up in a u with a jump out from both end and ran jump (the one in front of the entrance), tunnel, jump (the one in front of the exit) a few times and then switched to jump-tunnel-SAME jump. Successfully managing that the first go is possibly the highlight of agility so far for me.

Poor Ranger! I hope his toe gets better fast and he doesn't lose too much agility time and can at least manage to hang out in class.

*ETA* One thing the video and even more so the pictures we took last night, including ones that didn't get posted showed me is how much Kylie is watching me. *Intently* watching me, even when I'm not watching her at all. There are places where she looks back to me to see where we're going next/is looking for the next command or me to tell her to go, because I'm slow. I think being aware of that's going to help my handling a TON come next session.










Also she loves me and is cute. 

(I bought a couple of jumps. Should be here this week so I can work on MORE THINGS at home).


----------



## LoMD13

Congrats to Ocean!!! He's a rock star. 

Kylie is looking great! You two have come a long way in a short period of time,


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Kylie is looking great! You two have come a long way in a short period of time,


Thanks. The further we get into this, the more fun it is and the more I want to do. No surprise there, I'm sure!

(Which is why by the end of next week we will have a tunnel, a chute, two jumps, a wobble board, and some weaves. Shush. I wasn't doing anything with that field, anyway).


----------



## CptJack

All right, actually I'm spamming this thread but talk to me.

I am taking the foundations class next session because it starts right before intermediate and that's an opportunity too good to pass up. Also, I just want to do another class, and with another dog. It's fun, and it's good for me.

My plan has been to take Thud to the class. I'm now waffling between taking Thud as planned and putting Thud off for another 6 months to continue to grow a brain and taking Bug. Bug would, by far, be the easier dog to work in class with. She's bouncy and happy and playful and loves everybody and is fearless. She's got SOME attention problems and is deaf, but she's 7. She'd have a blast. I'd like to do the class with her eventually and she's not going to get any younger. 

The thing is... I'm pretty sure I'm just scared to do this class with Thud and am looking for an excuse to not do it. I am pretty sure that the only way Thud's going to improve any more than he already has is to get into formal class settings and do the work and fall on my face as necessary. He has some issues with being guardy/weird with strange people sometimes right now, and that's a consideration too. 

So um. Someone kick me in the butt, here? 

Or validate me if you want, but mostly just kick me in the rear and tell me to get over myself and take the danged class.


----------



## elrohwen

Touch decision. I would take Thud I guess, because I'm a glutton for punishment, and I feel like my similarly crazy adolescent dog must have received some benefit from the countless classes we've attended. 

Then again, Bug sounds like way more fun. 

When do they offer the class again?

ETA: And spam away! You all listened to me whine about my agility problems for a couple pages. haha


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Touch decision. I would take Thud I guess, because I'm a glutton for punishment, and I feel like my similarly crazy adolescent dog must have received some benefit from the countless classes we've attended.
> 
> Then again, Bug sounds like way more fun.
> 
> When do they offer the class again?



Bug would be so much more fun for me, but I really do keep thinking he'd benefit from the class. I just wobble between thinking the classes will help him get to sane faster, or if he'll get more out of the class with more maturity and basic work behind him :/

There's a new foundation's class every 6 months. They start in June and January, from what I can tell. So if he waits until the next one, he'll be just a bit over 2.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I have been taking some on-line classes at Fenzie Academy. The classes are not expensive if you take them as an observer and the information is really, really good. These classes might be a really great resource for getting your training going without having to deal with the public shame of local classes. I would give it a thought and take a peek. The next round of classes start June 1. So far, all of the ones I have taken have been really useful.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Bug would be so much more fun for me, but I really do keep thinking he'd benefit from the class. I just wobble between thinking the classes will help him get to sane faster, or if he'll get more out of the class with more maturity and basic work behind him :/
> 
> There's a new foundation's class every 6 months. They start in June and January, from what I can tell. So if he waits until the next one, he'll be just a bit over 2.


I'm the poster child for assuming that my dog will mature faster if I keep him in classes, and you've seen how that's going for me. lol Not to say it doesn't work, but I've learned that Watson has his own timeline sometimes. Not that I wouldn't still try Thud in the foundations class just to see. At some level I absolutely think classes are good for crazy adolescent dogs and Watson would probably be way crazier if we hadn't done so much, even if it seems he is still nuts.

Yeah, I'm not really being much help. I can see why you are conflicted!

ETA: Seconding Fenzi classes, though I get much less out of them as an observer because I'm not forced to keep up and work hard. We did one class at gold level and I think we really progressed. If you are more self-motivated than I am, the bronze level is awesome. And even if you're lazy like me, the information is good.

I also haven't found it to help with Watson's issues in classes (despite being in a Fenzi class about "focus" right now), though it has really helped our training at home. It's nice to be successful and progress at home even if we are stuck in the class environment.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Ocean and MrsBoats! What a fantastic day!

Love the Kylie pics and video! You guys look like you are coming along quite well! And she's adorable!

As far as classes... Has Thud ever done a formal class? (if he has my initial thoughts are probably not applicable) My initial thought was if you could swing it, do just a general basic obedience class with Thud to get him used to the formal class setting and ease your mind and do the agility class with Bug to have some fun and work on your handling. Then next time it comes around maybe that would help you feel more ready to tackle it with Thud? I know the more confidence I gain in myself the better Zoey and I get as a team. If you're not feeling confident about the class with Thud maybe taking it with Bug first, who you sound more confident and excited about, would be more beneficial to you as a handler. Of course that means more time and money so may not be possible but just some food for thought.


----------



## CptJack

Thud has NOT done a formal class, yet. The closest he has come is doing training with me in the middle of a PetSmart. He was meant to do that this term, but there was a scheduling conflict with one of my kids, so he didn't get that. If he had, I think I'd feel better about doing Foundations this term with him. I won't be able to do that class for another 3-4 months, either, but I could probably slide him in right before next term, if I go that route.

I think a lot of my reason for wanting to take Bug is she's sort of... intermediate handling wise? Now that I'm thinking and talking to you guys. Kylie's easy-peasy. Let's be real, her little eyes are glued on me all the time and if I flail around odds are still good that she's going to figure out what I want her to do and do it. Bug's... not quite as biddable or attentive and she's deaf, but she's still a lot easier than Thud. I'm not bad with Thud. Thud is not bad. Thud performs very, very well when he performs at all but I'm nowhere NEAR as confident in my ability to handle him. He's not untrained and a total wildchild (just enthusiastic, kind of hyper, and easily distracted), I just feel like I'm going from a tricycle to a souped up Harley with him. 

I dunno. He'll be doing something this summer, regardless. It's just going to be a matter of whether or not I can find the spine and nerves to actually put him out there in an agility class. It's weird. I've seen the dogs in those classes. He's not a bit 'worse' than any of them and is better than some, but I'm half scared of trying this with him and I honestly have no earthly idea why.

Maybe Bug just needs to be my training wheels, while I work him into a basic obedience class or an online course.

(ETA: It's an attention thing that's making me nervous. I just did a short training session with him. It took me five minutes to teach him to twirl (as opposed to spin), but in that session he wandered off entirely three times. Kylie, meanwhile, heard training going on and came from the other side of the house and a floor below us to get in on it and did every. single. command along with him. Without being asked or treated. I obviously just need to keep things shorter with him, but an hour long class? QUIVERING on my end.)


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> (ETA: It's an attention thing that's making me nervous. I just did a short training session with him. It took me five minutes to teach him to twirl (as opposed to spin), but in that session he wandered off entirely three times. Kylie, meanwhile, heard training going on and came from the other side of the house and a floor below us to get in on it and did every. single. command along with him. Without being asked or treated. I obviously just need to keep things shorter with him, but an hour long class? QUIVERING on my end.)


An hour is a long time, but there should be down time throughout, right? There have been some classes where I could tell Watson's brain was just not functioning by the end, so we backed way off and just let him chill. Most of the time his lack of focus has nothing to do with the length though and is related to other factors (ie distractions). 

Do you think Thud would settle well in between his turns? That helps a ton. Watson is still not good at this many days and those are often the classes where he struggles the most - he just stays overstimulated for the whole hour and can't think. 

People take hour long obedience classes with dogs of all ages and ability levels, so I wouldn't worry too much about the length of the class. He'll be able to chill out when it's not his turn (or he'll learn to chill out) and the moments where he is working can be short and upbeat.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Do you think Thud would settle well in between his turns?


I don't know. 

I'd like to think he will learn, but reality is I have never seen Thud settle without being told to settle and then it's not really settling so much as lying in place and vibrating until either he's released or his impulse control breaks. He spent 2+ hours in the car standing up whinging and pawing at people and pacing around the back seat on a trip to my mothers. I guess we'll find out when we get there and maybe he'll learn something on the way.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I don't know.
> 
> I'd like to think he will learn, but reality is I have never seen Thud settle without being told to settle and then it's not really settling so much as lying in place and vibrating until either he's released or his impulse control breaks. He spent 2+ hours in the car standing up whinging and pawing at people and pacing around the back seat on a trip to my mothers. I guess we'll find out when we get there and maybe he'll learn something on the way.


Well, if we're considering a "settle" to be true relaxation of his own choice, then Watson has never settled in a class in his life. lol Doesn't mean he hasn't learned some things! A forced settle is fine, or working on tricks and known behaviors. It's the continuous barking and lunging and acting like a fool that is hard, but working through that is part of going to classes in the first place. In most obedience classes I was much more concerned with how well he settled between exercises and his ability to ignore other dogs, vs how well he performed.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Well, if we're considering a "settle" to be true relaxation of his own choice, then Watson has never settled in a class in his life. lol Doesn't mean he hasn't learned some things! A forced settle is fine, or working on tricks and known behaviors. It's the continuous barking and lunging and acting like a fool that is hard, but working through that is part of going to classes in the first place. In most obedience classes I was much more concerned with how well he settled between exercises and his ability to ignore other dogs, vs how well he performed.


Oh, for sure. And I'm pretty confident in putting him in a basic obedience class or something done on leash to let him get that experience and figure it out. It's... dealing with that off leash, in a stimulating environment, when he does it IN THE HOUSE that I'm not quite so sure of. I'll probably try it. I think she'll let me switch dogs mid-stream, if it's a disaster. Or maybe I'll sign my husband and bug up and we can just drop and keep going with Bug.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Oh, for sure. And I'm pretty confident in putting him in a basic obedience class or something done on leash to let him get that experience and figure it out. It's... dealing with that off leash, in a stimulating environment, when he does it IN THE HOUSE that I'm not quite so sure of. I'll probably try it. I think she'll let me switch dogs mid-stream, if it's a disaster. Or maybe I'll sign my husband and bug up and we can just drop and keep going with Bug.


Yeah, on leash vs off leash thing is pretty much where it fell apart for us. 

I've used some of Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed stuff in the house when he wouldn't focus, and now he won't leave me alone, but it hasn't helped around other dogs. I wish I had a good off leash area to practice. I really need to find a tennis court that is open to the public, but I haven't had any success.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY O! You guys are amazing!!!! And to think he's still just a babydog 

Finally some video of Kylie  She looks great. I love how much she seems to be enjoying herself 

I would try taking Thud through another group class first, on leash. I think that it would help for you to really see how he can focus for a longer amount of time without the stress of potentially having him blow you off while off leash. Just my suggestion 

elrohwen - Have you tried doing some stuff on a long line near, say, a dog park? That seems to have been helping us a bit... He gets the "feeling" of off leash (though he kinda knows he's not LOL) and the distraction of lots of dogs, without fear he may take off and not pay attention. I honestly NEVER have my dogs off leash ANYWHERE except for at class and Kimma at trials. I still am able to get a lot of recall work done just on long lines. Keep sessions short, bursts of running and play with fast sits and downs, then all done and back in the house/crate/car before they even have the chance to get bored of me. 

And for everything, mat work has been my savior. Seriously. I had Kimma working last Saturday as my demo dog for 2 hours. She just stayed on her mat the whole time, got off and would work with me when I released her, then I was able to put her right back. This dog is a disaster in a crate, and cannot settle AT ALL when we are working otherwise, like at classes she used to have to be doing tricks and various other things to keep her busy. But the mat has been associated with a calm settle (this has also been years in the making) and it's finally paying off for both of us. I am working on the same with Jari, and I do think it's helped him to relax even while he's not on the mat itself. He's generally more relaxed than she is anyway so hopefully he will get to the point she is quicker


----------



## Kyllobernese

Finally got some decent weather on Sunday and helped set up a course at the trainer's home. My sister was almost thinking of quitting with her Rat Terrier but she ran her over a couple of short courses and she did really well. She had not done any Agility since last fall with her so was pleasantly surprised. We then went to her place and set up our own agility equipment.

We have always done just short sessions when we are practicing (about 10 or 15 minutes at the one time) and hopefully that will work for the Rat Terrier. She knows the equipment and will do it but loses interest really fast and just walks off so she is trying to quit before the dog does. Hope it will work as after Mikey, her Shih Tzu x Maltese was killed, she has had nothing to do Agility with and it is much nicer when we can travel together. (It was 75 degrees out today so I did not do any Agility as I had Kris in an Obedience class at 1 pm.)


----------



## SDRRanger

Well, I spoke with my instructor and took a look at Ranger's toe and we decided to wrap, boot, and see how he was. He's not lame on it at all and it seems to have handled the class now that we're home and it's uncovered again. I still have to give it a good wash, treatment and possibly a bootie for tonight. 

Class was awesome. We did one jump warmup and now he is only getting rewarded when he actually LIFTS his legs over the jump. By the end he was popping over it more times than not. He is definitely better CCW as opposed to CW and that's a whole load of my fault because I don't work him nearly enough both ways...but we're changing that. 

This week was giving the dogs a lot more freedom (eep). We worked on A-frame with click on contact, treat is marked area at the bottom then release. Ranger handled it well and SLOW, which is what we're working on. He's gotta think where those big feet are going. Then we were divided with half the class working on the ramp (two feet off, three nose touches to the target with rewards in between) and the other half working on the teeter. Ranger tends to crash down the ramp and try to assault the target so we worked on slowing him down and not eating the target. On the teeter Ranger's first attempt involved his whole front end making it 75% of the way across with his back feet never touching...he tipped off the side. On his second attempt he was more deliberate (and I slowed down too) and he made it perfectly. 

Added a jump to the end of the teeter for after the release (jump was at about 3 o'clock to the teeter). My horse riding past got the best of me and I wanted to have him release into a nice loop and come straight on...dogs do not need hunter ring perfect approaches and after being told I was getting in his way our next attempts were much better as I cut directly to the standard. 

Last exercises were jump-tunnel-jump in both directions. Ranger is fast and I need to move fast to be in the right position. We made it though and he only missed the second jump once. 

There was one moment when the schnauzer bolted from his owner and came over to try to pick an argument with Ranger. Pulled the old shove your dog's face into your crotch and wait for the other dog to get corralled. Ranger was good although he certainly didn't like the growling salt and pepper snuffling him. Better Ranger than the reactive dog though. 

He's crashed hard now and I'm hoping his foot is doing ok tomorrow because I want to start scootering with him. He's now the proud owner of a full set of boots which mean I don't necessarily need to stay away from actual asphalt.


----------



## elrohwen

Finkie_Mom said:


> elrohwen - Have you tried doing some stuff on a long line near, say, a dog park? That seems to have been helping us a bit... He gets the "feeling" of off leash (though he kinda knows he's not LOL) and the distraction of lots of dogs, without fear he may take off and not pay attention. I honestly NEVER have my dogs off leash ANYWHERE except for at class and Kimma at trials. I still am able to get a lot of recall work done just on long lines. Keep sessions short, bursts of running and play with fast sits and downs, then all done and back in the house/crate/car before they even have the chance to get bored of me.
> 
> And for everything, mat work has been my savior. Seriously. I had Kimma working last Saturday as my demo dog for 2 hours. She just stayed on her mat the whole time, got off and would work with me when I released her, then I was able to put her right back. This dog is a disaster in a crate, and cannot settle AT ALL when we are working otherwise, like at classes she used to have to be doing tricks and various other things to keep her busy. But the mat has been associated with a calm settle (this has also been years in the making) and it's finally paying off for both of us. I am working on the same with Jari, and I do think it's helped him to relax even while he's not on the mat itself. He's generally more relaxed than she is anyway so hopefully he will get to the point she is quicker


I do have him on the long line a lot, both on our property and on the walking trail we use every day, and I work on recalls and things. I don't think I make use of it as much as I could/should though. I should try tying it to something and considering that my "fenced area" and trying to train. He definitely knows when he's on it though and it's like I have a 20ft radius of influence. When he gets further than that, or knows he can get further, he zooms (and I mean at home on our property, as well as agility). I swear his brain shuts off, and it doesn't have to do with anything specific lots of the time - it's not like he's just seen a dog or a deer, he just spaces out and zooms. Maybe it's age related? He never did that before 9 or 10 months. I wish I could do agility on a long line. I'm trying to get some temporary fencing set up in my field so we can start working on agility stuff on our own in a much smaller area than the facility where we train (and there won't be other dogs around).

I should do more with mat work too. He has mats, and he knows what they're for, but I haven't used them much outside of the house and a few training classes. It's more a matter of proofing at this point, which I've avoided. I've always thought it might help settle him between turns in class and let him get his head together (I might try crating for that as well).


----------



## Laurelin

Do they offer distractions classes ever? Those have been great with Summer. All the other dogs are having other dog and toy distractions and Summer's BIG distraction is people sitting in chairs (which unfortunately every agility trial ring contains). I put her through a round whenever it is offered. Having a trainer watch and see what I am doing and point out to me when she was zoning out is invaluable.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Do they offer distractions classes ever? Those have been great with Summer. All the other dogs are having other dog and toy distractions and Summer's BIG distraction is people sitting in chairs (which unfortunately every agility trial ring contains). I put her through a round whenever it is offered. Having a trainer watch and see what I am doing and point out to me when she was zoning out is invaluable.


No :-( They pretty much only have a linear progression of classes from beginner through competition. What that really turns into is that you start in beginner with one group, and just keep moving along with that group (we actually dropped back to a more beginner group for this most recent round). If someone becomes more advanced than everyone else, they can move up to a more advanced class. The classes are basically set to the level of the people in them, rather than having a strict curriculum. The website claims they have a foundation class, but I haven't seen it offered yet and they really cover foundations stuff ongoing from beginning up. A pure foundations class would be a nice change though, and better for puppies who really need sit/stay and things like that, so I would take it if they ever offered it.

The obedience classes we were doing were a lot of distraction training, but it was a) all on leash (except for recalls from a sit/stay) and b) was a lot of stationary stuff which Watson is fine with. He can hold a stay with dogs moving and people jumping in front of him and throwing toys, but once he's in motion his inertia takes over and his brain turns off. lol He can do a recall from a stay with other dogs running next to him, but I think that's so clearly a specific targeting behavior (targeting me) that it's easier for him. In agility, he's next to me and his field of vision is wide open with fun things to do.


----------



## Laurelin

That stinks. Ours works imilar sort of. We progress with the same group pretty much. Sometimes people quit and you get reshuffled.

I think you could maybe implement distraction ideas though in your own runs in class. Our big thing was that if the dog was out of the crate, the dog was being engaged. Period. Even if you're tired and don't feel like being peppy, the dog is working when out of the crate. We did a lot of work on leash actually just through a lot of the distractions- people sqeuaking toys, sitting , etc. And then trying to keep the dog cued in. Then eventually do the same off leash. With Summer I learned she has a space bubble which is constantly shrinking as far as how close she can get to a distractor without losing it. We also played a lot of games with the dogs. A lot of games that require the dog (off leash) to chase us and catch us. We also played hide and seek a lot (and I do that on my own too). So out on the agility field and then let the dog go and they'd find us and get rewarded.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> That stinks. Ours works imilar sort of. We progress with the same group pretty much. Sometimes people quit and you get reshuffled.
> 
> I think you could maybe implement distraction ideas though in your own runs in class. Our big thing was that if the dog was out of the crate, the dog was being engaged. Period. Even if you're tired and don't feel like being peppy, the dog is working when out of the crate. We did a lot of work on leash actually just through a lot of the distractions- people sqeuaking toys, sitting , etc. And then trying to keep the dog cued in. Then eventually do the same off leash. With Summer I learned she has a space bubble which is constantly shrinking as far as how close she can get to a distractor without losing it. We also played a lot of games with the dogs. A lot of games that require the dog (off leash) to chase us and catch us. We also played hide and seek a lot (and I do that on my own too). So out on the agility field and then let the dog go and they'd find us and get rewarded.


That sounds awesome. I really wish we had a class like that where we could just focus on the distraction stuff and building it up, rather than having to incorporate it into everything else. "Jump this *and* don't run up to the other dogs" is so much harder than just "don't run up to the other dogs".

Our new session starts tonight and I know a couple people are moving up, so I'm curious to see how many dogs are still in our class (unfortunately the instructor said we are the biggest class still). There is a big ring and a smaller side ring, so if the class is small enough maybe I can have the side area to myself and just work on my own private distraction class. Then I can easily run away and hide, or wait him out, without him running up to other dogs (unless he can slip between the ring gates, I don't think he would jump them). I don't really care if we miss out on the class activity - I can catch up on handling stuff or obstacles later if I can just get him to stop running away.

I might start crating when it's not his turn too. It's so hard to keep him engaged or settled between turns (some days are better than others) and at least with a crate i could ignore him and he wouldn't be able to see the other dogs. Not sure if it will help or if he'll come out even more ready to zoom.

I really wish my obedience classes had offered off leash stuff. I think that was the next logical step, but we never got beyond stays and recalls off leash. I've seen other facilities that offer those types of classes and it would've been so helpful. The owner of the obedience place went to an Ian Dunbar seminar recently all about off leash control, so maybe I should try to talk her into offering an off leash obedience class. They could set up small rings for each dog who is actively working, so they can't rush the other dogs, and progress from there.


----------



## kadylady

Had a super awesome class tonight, totally riding a high right now between class and being super excited for our trial this weekend. Lots of club members and my instructor will be there so should be super fun. We have never been to this facility before and its our first time on turf, so should be interesting! I'm pretty sure that I will not be able to concentrate on anything at work tomorrow.

I'm taking the Skills Drills class again where we work on jumping drills and handling them in a certain way. My blind crosses have improved tremendously since I first took the class. Got a couple good front crosses in with some speed too so that was exciting. Overall we just worked really well together tonight, she was reading me really well, I was reading her really well. Felt very cohesive.


----------



## elrohwen

Last night's class went better than the previous weeks. Watson did run away from me a number of times, but he didn't go far and actually came back when I called. Instead of calling and moving after him, this time I just called and walked the other way, or crouched down and let him run to me, which seemed to work better. When he goes after other dogs I kind of need to get him, but he was mostly going off to check out other equipment so I just let him come back on his own (and he even came back on his own from checking out another dog). 

I also gave him Rescue Remedy and he did seem less high for most of the class. Turns out when he's not high he's sort of slow and stressy about things (mostly contact obstacles, which may or may not turn into teeters at any moment), but he also doesn't zoom off and get completely out of control.

The best thing is that he seems more comfortable with jumping since we've been working at home. He's only doing 8", because I know he's comfortable with that, and he was actually running from jump to jump and following my cues instead of stopping at each one. Twice he jumped random jumps when I was calling him back from running off - one a small broad jump, and one a 12" triple. For a dog who used to run out on jumps, going out of his way to take them on his own was actually pretty exciting.


----------



## elrohwen

Thinking about what I posted earlier, I think I hit on part of Watson's personality that I didn't fully understand. I know that he gets easily over excited and overstimulated. I also know (or assumed) that he is a stress-up dog, rather than stress down. Now I've realized how hard it is to tell the difference between his excited face and his stressed face. Once I can get him to be less high at agility, he actually comes across as a bit confused and stressed. Like when he's high he charges through tunnels and over A-frames, but when he's calmer he looks unsure and I have to go back a few steps with him. He just comes across as so confident sometimes it's hard to tell when he's actually confident, vs just throwing himself at things because he's stressing up. At least when he's calmer I can work on what stresses him out and hopefully get him more confident.


----------



## Laurelin

Link to this here as well as the general forum.

AKC World Team tryouts livestream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYYXzLO07Kg


----------



## Guest

This may have been mentioned somewhere in the previous 69 pages... But how much do agility classes usually cost? And are there criteria, except age, that's required to join one (s.a. clearance from a vet, prior obedience class, etc)?

My dog is a very bouncy 14 month old border collie mix. She is obedient and knows tons of tricks, despite never having any classes. But she NEEDS some sporty activity to channel her energy!
I run with her, but she has gotten much faster than me and her endurance is unbelievable. 8 miles does nothing to tire her...so we both need something else sporty to do


----------



## Kyllobernese

It really depends where you are and what is available. It goes anywhere from $40 for just using the equipment which is not a good option if you have never done any training with an instructor to $100.00, both for six lessons. That is in our area where there are only the two options, only one instructor available.


----------



## CptJack

Varies by location. Mine are 70.00 per 7 week class.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Mine generally run $20 per class for a group class (so $140 per 7 week session) to $60 per hour for a private where I work (which is what I do since I cannot make any group times, plus I like the one-on-one better). Ring rentals are $40 per hour there, but I'm lucky in that I never actually have to pay for that - I just use the ring when I'm there and it's not otherwise occupied 

If you are new to the sport, I would definitely make sure to get a private or group class with an instructor versus just renting on your own. I definitely do not think I would have been able to figure lots of this out on my own, even with the multitude of YouTube videos/other resources out there.


----------



## SDRRanger

The original agility foundations class I was in was around $135.00 for six weeks. Once you've moved on, the amount goes down to $80 for six weeks (which I didn't know and was a wonderful surprise when I paid last time).


----------



## Laurelin

Mine are now $90 per 6 weeks.


----------



## Kathyy

Mine are $20 a class after the beginning series. The requirements the school requires varies from place to place, you would have to ask. Mine has obedience and pre agility classes on site and once you demonstrate simple obedience you move on. Sassy was trained to most of the open obedience level exercises, Max never had any obedience as that school didn't require it at the time plus they trusted me as I had been training Sassy there for years and Ginger took the class at the school and moved on. Sounds like your dog is fine. My school would have you two evaluated for a fee or have you take an obedience course before you start preagility.


----------



## kadylady

We had a really fun weekend at the AKC trial. No Q's but I was so happy with her performance. This was a new facility for us, 2 rings, first time on turf. She LOVED the turf. While we were waiting our turns she was rolling around on in, army crawling across it, just being a silly goof. Our first run of the day was Novice FAST, she had zoomies the entire time, but we did get the send bonus so there's that. Second run was an absolutely perfect JWW run....until she jumped out of the ring at the end. :doh: Apparently we have to work on that since that is the second time she has jumped the short ring gating at trials. Our Standard run was also pretty good on Saturday minus the flying leap off the A frame so NQ there. Sunday JWW was a really nice opening and then I got a little too far away from her and didn't cue a turn very well and we had trouble reconnecting after that. Standard run Sunday I knew was going to be a mess because as we were waiting our turn she was just not mentally with me. My goal for that class was to stick her contacts and not jump off the table, both of which we accomplished so I was pleased. I was mostly just very happy that she did so well at the new place on the new surface. She really wasn't stressed at all and she was so happy out there so that's a win in my book. 

Saturday Novice JWW, perfect run then she jumps the short fence.





Saturday Novice Standard





Sunday Novice JWW


----------



## kadylady

I take classes at the club where I am a member now so I get the reduced member price on classes and also have access to open floor times at no cost (other than yearly club dues of like 20 or 30 bucks plus being an active volunteering member). The club just updated prices, so 6 week classes are $72 for members, $90 for non-members. 4 week classes are $60 for non-members, $48 for members. My club requires a basic obedience class or instructor approval prior to taking the first class. I think the Intro class may have an age restriction of one year old or older but I'm not 100% sure. They do offer a puppy class occasionally.


----------



## elrohwen

I pay $165 for a 7 week class. It's $140 if you are a member of the agility club, but membership is expensive and requires a time commitment

My facility doesn't require any previous obedience - anyone can sign up for the beginner class and go from there.


----------



## Tashapaws

So I'm equally flying and frustrated with agility. The park where we give classes has really long herbs that will be cut this week... but Natasha has atarted eating them, so we cannot practise nor take her to play. Mainly, that was the reason why she didn't behave at all apart from the first run last saturday, then she kept eating the herbs and not obeying nor paying attention. I got angry with her and I hope I haven't messed with anything. 
But man, that firs run before she noticed the ground... I've never ran like that, it was impressive. Her and I, running full speed across the obstacles. It was so fantastic I can hardly believe it. Like if we had been practising for years. 
But then, she noticed the ground U_U

Anyway, in two weeks I'll enter a pre-agility trial (that doesn't qualify, but there's a judge, people and dogs around and it's free, it's mostly for the handler and dog to get used to the situation). If she runs like that first run, or only half that good, I will be the proudest owner in the world.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and I should say - Our instructor does a make-up class. It's just one, but if you miss during the regular session you and anybody else who have missed a class get one on a weekend at her outside agility field to make up for it. Which is why I'm skipping this week - if no one else had missed any classes, I wouldn't miss and make the instructor do a make-up class just for me, but since one other person has... I am, shamelessly taking advantage of a smaller class size, more focused attention, and a better arena. 

Absolutely related: Mail today brought me a jump and the things to make weave poles.


----------



## Guest

Thank you all! Sounds like it's just something I have to look into in my area. Will see if we can find a place this summer


----------



## CptJack

We skipped this week - then Kylie managed to hurt herself. I have no idea how. She just screamed bloody murder in the kitchen and now has a slightly swollen ankle and is limping. Vet advice was to leave it for about 48 hours and bring her in if she was still limping - or if it got worse in the meanwhile. I'm probably taking her in, anyway. I don't feel great about some kind of joint injury of undefined origin and then going into a class where the only thing happening is running and taking a jump. :/ (It's our last class, therefore it's a 'competition' of sending the dog from increasing distances to go over a jump).


----------



## Laurelin

Trial this weekend! Woohoo! I swear it is freaking addicting. I want to trial every weekend. Thank god there's not a trial every weekend close enough to me. I'd be broke. And my poor old dog would probably disown me.

Doing 6 runs- 4 standards and 2 games. Can't remember which games now though.


----------



## SDRRanger

Tonight's agility reconfirmed that Ranger needs to LOOK where he is going instead of trying to make eye contact/look at my hands. We did some work building up to jump - chute - tunnel - jump and we had some issues with him looking at me right before he is supposed to be entering the tunnel/chute. Luckily he didn't smash his noggin off the entry, but if we don't get focused off me I think it's a matter of when, not if. 

I'm running (well, hobbling) now with my arms straight by my side to see if that helps, and it kind of does; at least he didn't smash himself off anything. He did have some problems going through the chute (he did fine with it last summer, but that's the last time he saw one) but we think it's related to him not looking forward but at me. 

We also did our very first cross over tonight...how do you guys not trip over yourself/the jumps/the dog...I'm thinking of putting pvc pipes on the ground at home so that I can work on my footwork without Ranger. We managed it in class all right and didn't trip over myself!

Our final section was jump - jump - tunnel - crossover to jump...you know, no big deal (hand over face). I was nervous, but it was probably Ranger's best moment in the class. We went slow (to prevent his over enthusiasm, but he took each piece of equipment well and listened to me when he needed to slow down after barrelling out of the tunnel before the crossover/last jump. 

Positives of the class: He held his wait before every turn, he didn't bark at the other dogs at all, settled in between turns AND he spent 90% of the class off leash/not being held. 

He wore his bootie again for his toe which seems to be healing nicely. It was such a deep cut that it's taking forever, but the skin where it's knitting is pink and healthy.


----------



## Kathyy

My teachers have always used bars on the ground to help us with footwork. Put a bar on the front cross line between the two jumps and practice the move without the dog then practice with a human accomplice to see how it works. Just walk through slowly.


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, it just takes practice. I remember being BEWILDERED by crosses not all that long ago, and feeling like I was going to fall over myself or step on the dog. Doing various crosses throughout this class and I'm okay - and about as graceful as a sack of bricks. I will say that front crosses REALLY hurt my knees when done with any regularity, at least on the sand in our building.


----------



## kadylady

Seconding the lots of practice and repetition. Front crosses were super hard for me at first, I had a hard time grasping the concept of it. I practiced a lot with one jump, with and without my dog. Now they come much more natural and we are working on executing them at a faster speed. Make sure you practice both directions too. One was definitely more difficult for me at first, can't remember which now. Rear crosses were much easier for Zoey and I, were are improving on the blind crosses. Had some really good ones last night, my timing and commitment is improving and therefore she is reading them better.


----------



## Kathyy

I was the star of the class last week when I could demonstrate the rear cross on the flat with the jump standard. Since I learned on the fly I am trying really hard to do all the little steps so Ginger really understands the move and doing my homework. The other members of the class have done agility and at least one of them is in Masters USDAA and yet doing the starting out part was hard for her to figure out. Rears are natural when you are moving but it sure is strange on the flat. Sassy was rarely in front of me and I never really learned how to do them with her but on our first Grand Prix course I had to do it and she understood perfectly.

Except for the time I stood up and pedaled on a bike ride all my knee owies have been due to front crosses. Besides getting lost rotating I jam the knees. So glad blinds aren't so looked down on these days, they are much easier on knees. Now whether I can manage to figure out how to handle her on either fronts or blinds or rears is another matter.

This week we had to switch fields half way through the class. On the strange field we did 2 jumps to a 2 jump serpentine then a single jump out. *I* did cookie, wait, cookie, lead out, cookie, lead out jump, cookie, jump, cookie, jump, cookie, jump, cookie then I think we managed the last two jumps without a cookie between. Went back to the start and she nailed it without needing all the extra help and moving nice and quick. Going to be fun finding show and goes all over so she isn't so worried about new places.


----------



## Laurelin

We did a TDAA trial today and ended up running 5 runs- 3 games, 2 standards. I really liked it. It was laid back and yes, easier, but very well suited to my tiny elderly dog. We walked away with 4 Qs and Summer earned her TG1 title!

Going back tomorrow for at least 4 runs....hoping to get her TBAD knocked out.


----------



## Laurelin

We added 3 more Qs today- 2 standards and 1 leg towards her games 2 title. So now she has both the TG1 and TBAD. And we got HIT veteran dog.


TDAA trial HIT by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

I really had a great time. I know a lot of people poo poo TDAA but really it was a lot of fun and I think it is a great venue. Particularly for people like me with old tiny dogs. She can obviously Q in USDAA, etc but she's 9 inches tall and 10 years old. It's nice to have a little less running for her! And everyone was very nice and supportive and it's very laid back. I enjoyed it a lot.


----------



## elrohwen

Woohoo! Go Summer!


----------



## CptJack

YAY SUMMER! Congrats!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Laurelin and Summer!!


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks guys! I got some video of the Crazy Old Dog tonight at practice. Just a couple little sequences.

Just 2 weeks shy of her 10th birthday. 











We are having so much fun. <3


----------



## Tashapaws

Yay, Congratulations, Laurelin! 
The vids are Awesome, too. I wish I had that level with Natasha. 


Today it's my last agility class before our pre-agility trial. While I know there's no reward, no classifying, I can't help but to be nervous. Yet I wish I could make time go faster, I want to be on Sunday so badly!


----------



## Tashapaws

I'm about to start bouncing up and down. Seriously. This has been the best class ever. I forgot to take a video, sorry, but someday I will, or at least I'll bring pictures. I'm just so happy... 
Today we only did jumps in order to practise our guiding abilities, and even though there was an impressive ammount of distraction, I've felt what it is to be a team with Natasha. I'm worn out. She onlys slowed down a little after some runs, but I still keep that feeling of "This is the best thing ever". I didn't have to worry about obstacles she didn't know, it was only me and her running at full speed, enjoying the simple act of running and jumping. 
We did an exercise in which there was no course, I just had to guide Natasha and take whatever jumps I wanted. Man, I didn't even think, it was soo fun! I'm starting to believe I'm addicted to agility.


----------



## LoMD13

Congrats Laurelin and Summer!!! 

I'd like to try TDAA if it comes this way sometime. We've been Incredibly hit or miss in USDAA.


----------



## CptJack

Well, that's officially it for Kylie and I in Beginning Agility. Intermediate starts June 17th, if there are enough people to fill the class (dunno when I'll find out about that one). She didn't win the get out jump competition thing, but 3 of the 4 dogs there went out at the same spot and the dog who won BARELY got it. No upset on that front from me, anyway.

Tonight was kind of miserable because of the heat and humidity in the barn, but we did real sequences (10+ obstacles, requiring multiple crosses and including the tire and 'half-a-teeter) and we ROCKED IT. I even managed to do a good enough job with the crosses to get complimented, which is huge given how much trouble I had with some of them to start with. Overall, I'm pleased and really looking forward to the next class session. I am NOT looking forward to the heat and humidity in there, but we'll manage.

And for those interested, I talked to the instructor and... We're doing the Foundations with Thud. If he needs to take it twice, or three times, so be it. He's not going to learn the skills in a class setting without BEING in a class setting. So, we'll see how this goes.

And hopefully I don't die from 'fat, old, and heat stroke', because seriously? That was freaking miserable.


----------



## SDRRanger

Yay Summer!

And I can't wait to hear about your stories of Thud, CptJack. I think he's going to rock it


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> I can't wait to hear about your stories of Thud, CptJack. I think he's going to rock it


I hope so, but I have no idea what to expect. I'm very, very used to Kylie and Kylie is just strange. Like the instructor was cracking up tonight, because I have to _give Kylie a command_ to go get the treat off the target at the end of her run, and then she comes to me looking for a treat for having gone to get the treat. 

And the instructor laughed harder when, right after telling one person who gave the wrong verbal command for a chute (said jump) that it showed how much body language mattered when the dog took the chute anyway, I did the same thing with Kylie and she stopped cold, sat down and barked at me. "I can't jump the chute mom, but you're signaling me to go through it so WHICH IS IT? I AM FRUSTRATED AND CONFUSED YAP".

Either way, it's gonna be a learning experience for both Thud and I, and maybe kinda cool to work with a doggy-dog instead of little Miss Priss. At least Miss Priss has given me some handling skills.


----------



## SDRRanger

I think Thud is going to be like Ranger: at the beginning you'll get some play bows, then he'll realize how fun it is and will gallop at EVERYTHING with so much enthusiasm you think he'll smash through the end of the ring fencing, and will have that sloppy happy grin and glazed eyes lol.


----------



## CptJack

That's... about what I expect, but I think he'll take a little bit to loosen up in the environment. He's got some GSD-y traits and can get pretty wary/suspicious if he's too far outside his comfort zone, so I'm expecting a session of two of him being a wary dork. 

Or, he'll just want to play with other dogs and it'll take a bit for him to go 'Hey, wait. This is AWESOME'. He won't really see any equipment besides a tunnel and low jump in Foundations, but that's not a bad thing. I'm not quite sure but I DO think there are going to be things that are easier for him to being quite as smart as Kylie. Some that are harder, for sure, but definitely some that are easier.


----------



## Sibe

Last week was Denali's first lesson back after MONTHS off due to her paw pad being messed up. She's been on a zinc supplement and it's helped a lot.









I took he a little early to let her run around the field, she started whining and getting amped up about 10 minutes away from the field (takes me 30 mins to get there) so after letting her romp I had her do a couple jumps, A-frame, and a tunnel, and she was excellent. The class was running the entire course right away so we just did a big loop around the outside which she nailed perfectly. Next time around we did the whole thing.

Tonight she was a bit spazzy, I couldn't let her run at the beginning much. Her first run she *really* wanted to have zoomies. You could see it coming. Body would get tight and she'd stiff-leg hop a step and drop her chest in a slight playbow with front legs splayed a bit. I'd do one or two obstacles at most then reward as an interruption. We made it through without zoomies!!!! I was super proud of her for hanging on. After we finished the run I told her to get the bunnies and she spazzy ran across the field and I had her run up and down a few times before having her jump in the big kiddie pool and playing in the hose (it was about 90* outside). After that she was really solid, we had a very tight course with lots of tight turns, obstacle discrimination, and she did awesome. I even threw in a backside of a jump that she nailed and we haven't done that in forever.

Tonight was the start of a 6 week course, I want to do at least this before any trials.. but then we're deep into summer type weather and considering it's already pushing 100* and I'm feeling this summer is going to be miserably hot I don't know if we'll trial at all this summer.


----------



## Laurelin

Progress. We are making progress.






So this is going to be weird. But my trainer had a dream Sunday night about a method to use with Summer's weaves because she was NOT getting them any way we'd tried or any of our 3 former trainers had tried- 2x2s, guides, channels, WOMs, etc. So I decided what the hell, we will try the trainer's dream.

I started clicking and rewarding for her finding the third pole. She was finding the entrance and running through on the right side just fine before but seemed to think her job was finding the entrance and that was it. Then I actually lured her to find the third pole. Then I started clicking and treating when she'd find the third pole independently. And we were going so slowly. This is session #3 of trying this method. 

I know everyone is very gung ho about 2x2s or doing super fast channels but omg I think she is getting it. Summer is the kind of dog that needs very obvious guidance when learning something then once she gets it tends to automatically go faster. I'm not hoping for super awesome weaves just enough weaves to get us through novice AKC and Int TDAA. lol

That was the only time we did it with the poles that straight the rest were open a bit more.

Oh and I CANNOT call it 'weave'. When I try to put weave to it she shuts down. :/ I think that cue got totally poisoned. I thought I was filming more of our session but the camera died.


----------



## LoMD13

That's really very similar to how I taught Lola weaves. We just sort of shaped them one by one after the channels and 2x2's failed. She does them pretty quick now, still struggles a bit when she's on my right.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm really excited considering that is our third session. We started yesterday at noon teaching her this way. It was the first time I saw her brain engage at all in any weave method. When I started we were going really really slow. She was practically walking but I could see her thinking. All the weave techniques I've seen want the dog running and driving but I think she turns off her brain when we do that. I mean we're talking over a year of working channels and she still randomly pops out when they're a foot and a half wide.


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> I'm really excited considering that is our third session. We started yesterday at noon teaching her this way. It was the first time I saw her brain engage at all in any weave method. When I started we were going really really slow. She was practically walking but I could see her thinking. All the weave techniques I've seen want the dog running and driving but I think she turns off her brain when we do that. I mean we're talking over a year of working channels and she still randomly pops out when they're a foot and a half wide.


I feel like Summer and Lola have a very similar training style! We did a year of channels too and nothing came of it. Once I started going very slow and clicking after each pole, (and then gradually clicking every other pole and every 3rd pole etc) she picked it up within a month. Once she was confident that she was doing it right, that's when I saw her speed pick up.


----------



## Laurelin

It has been very frustrating because all the videos I watch are like... super high drive young border collies and I'm working with an elderly papillon with zero toy drive and not a lot of forward momentum. I have the food tossing ball but she can't open it because she has no teeth in the front. She'll open it a few times but it's hard and she will give up after a few times of that. 

Here's how we started in all it's non sexy glory.






LOL so bad but yet it seems to be working?


----------



## Tjrsports

I'm new to this thread but my dog and I recently started agility. I really have enjoyed it so far, but some of the other handlers in the class, frankly, have no business having dogs IMO. Others are very good. Rascal and I have had fun though!


----------



## CptJack

Tjrsports said:


> I'm new to this thread but my dog and I recently started agility. I really have enjoyed it so far, but some of the other handlers in the class, frankly, have no business having dogs IMO. Others are very good. Rascal and I have had fun though!


As you progress through classes, you will see some people improving their handling as they learn and a lot dropping out. Heck, even between our first couple of foundations classes 2 or 3 people quit because it wasn't what they expected -too much actual work, not enough running around looking cool. I'm not sure there's even going to be enough people for our intermediate class to happen, yet (may have to wait until fall to combine a couple of beginner classes). It sounds snotty as heck but the further it goes the more you weed out the, erm, more questionable elements.

Also: Squee! Terriers.


----------



## CptJack

So, this thing is coming to town:

Show-n-Go/VT Run, and the agility instructor just sent out an email suggesting that everybody who has enrolled in the intermediate class (or will) check it out as maybe a way of getting some experience. It wraps at the end of the intermediate classes, and... the dogs probably still wouldn't be ready to do weaves very well, but it sounds like a fairly great experience for exposing the dogs to things. If not being submitted for Qs (and i wouldn't be, obviously) you can use treats, toys, and take up to 2 minutes at a time on the course. 

I think this sounds freaking awesome and useful, but I'm also kind of quivery at the idea.

Has anybody else done anything like this?


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> So, this thing is coming to town:
> 
> Show-n-Go/VT Run, and the agility instructor just sent out an email suggesting that everybody who has enrolled in the intermediate class (or will) check it out as maybe a way of getting some experience. It wraps at the end of the intermediate classes, and... the dogs probably still wouldn't be ready to do weaves, but it sounds like a fairly great experience for exposing the dogs to things. If not being submitted for Qs (and i wouldn't be, obviously) you can use treats, toys, and take up to 2 minutes at a time on the course.
> 
> I think this sounds freaking awesome and useful, but I'm also kind of quivery at the idea.
> 
> Has anybody else done anything like this?


Sounds awesome and I personally would jump at the opportunity!! The more experience and exposure the better. Plus being able to treat and train in a trial environment...yes!!


----------



## SDRRanger

One day I will get some pictures from agility to go with these posts. This was supposed to be the class, but with game 7 on that night (go habs go, sorry for your loss bruins *evil laugh*) I decided to drag my photographer out next week instead. 

We worked on our one jump warm up with me facing the jump with Ranger at my side in a sit, then asking him to jump. The point of the exercise was having him jump over and away from me, circling back round the standards to come back for his reward. He picked it up well and did it half a dozen times before he got bored. Trying to keep his attention on things and stopping before he gets bored is something I will always need to work on with him. 

We worked on the chute again and as long as I keep my hands down by my side we have more of a chance that he will look where he is going. He'll now go through with the chute fully on the ground. 

We also worked up to a jump-jump-tunnel-jump-jump and a single really curved tunnel. Ranger gets a little fumbled as he gets excited so we did a lot of my walking with him instead of trying to add even a slow jog. He loves jumping though and he's moved up to 16" which means he pays a lot more attention going over. 

The schnauzer had it in for him this class for some reason and actually zoomed off from his handler a couple of times to try to go after Ranger...lots of grumbling and circling with some sniffing, but I pulled the old "shove your dogs face in your crotch" trick so there was never a face to face meeting. Ranger was super good about it though and didn't seem put off by any of it. Anything to get more treats lol. 

This was the first agility class that Ranger got spacey towards the end. I'm not sure if nosework on Mondays with a day off in between means that his brain is more tired, or if adding the sequences is using his brain power more, but he crashed HARD when he got home so his brain definitely got a workout too.


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> This was the first agility class that Ranger got spacey towards the end. I'm not sure if nosework on Mondays with a day off in between means that his brain is more tired, or if adding the sequences is using his brain power more, but he crashed HARD when he got home so his brain definitely got a workout too.


I can't speak for Ranger, but our last class this week laid Kylie out dead. I think some of it was the heat, but a lot of it was the fact that we *ran a course*, and a course that had everything in it except weaves. It was teeter (propped up so jump up onto the table, walk the teeter and it dropped from level to the ground), tire, tunnel, A-frame, jump, jump, dog walk, tunnel, jump, chute. We each ran that course 5 times and it was enough that she not only slept on the ride home, she ended up being carried inside once we got there. 

The watching thing kind of amuses me, because if I lower my arm AT ALL on the course, rather than continuing to direct her, she veers back into me rather than staying out and taking the obstacle. I found it out because I tried to drop my arm once she was on the a-frame and she actually turned around to come back to me. I'm going to have to watch that pretty hard.



kadylady said:


> Sounds awesome and I personally would jump at the opportunity!! The more experience and exposure the better. Plus being able to treat and train in a trial environment...yes!!


I suppose if I can keep myself convinced it's basically just a chance to train and exposure to a trial environment I can save myself being a nervous wreck and feeling bad that she may or may not be up to doing all the obstacles well. In truth, given her temperament just going out there and doing ANYTHING with an audience and a new place will help her a ton. She needs the exposure. I'm still wibbly about it, though >.> But 5 runs for 20 bucks is DIRT cheap.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Laurelin, when I started training Remmy in Agility, there was no instructor so I just did it on my own. I taught Remmy weaves much like you are doing and he has really fast, reliable weaves. The one problem I have had is that I always did it with my dog on my left so have never been able to get really good weaves if I am on the left side of the weaves (Remmy on my right). It never was a problem when I was competing as I always seemed to be able to get to the side so he was on my left but next time I will work the dog on both sides.

I started Lucy using the channel but have not had a lot of success with it yet. The whole time we just sent them down the channel to a marker and never got them closed up enough to really call it a weave. They taught what they call "independent" weaves so you do not run with your dog which I can see being a problem as it is not that often that you do not run with your dog on the weaves so it is going to be a completely different thing when we start going with the dog.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> I suppose if I can keep myself convinced it's basically just a chance to train and exposure to a trial environment I can save myself being a nervous wreck and feeling bad that she may or may not be up to doing all the obstacles well. In truth, given her temperament just going out there and doing ANYTHING with an audience and a new place will help her a ton. She needs the exposure. I'm still wibbly about it, though >.> But 5 runs for 20 bucks is DIRT cheap.


Yes! The price is great! And yeah, if you think about it as a training opportunity, much less pressure than a "real trial". Plus, you gotta get the first one out of the way sometime right? That's what I kept telling myself at my first trial to try and help with the nerves. Great exposure for her but for you too!


----------



## Kathyy

If you ever even think you might trial go. If you aren't sure enough to spend the extra money ask if you can just go watch and train trial manners. There will be lots of baby dogs there with not so great manners to work around, lots of excitement and such.

Me and the dogs went to the last one at our school. I paid because the baby dog field was open so every 1/2 hour I got her out and played there with her. Am debating whether to do go to one 20 miles away in the valley in a couple weeks where I wouldn't be brave enough to run her as food isn't allowed on course but it would be a great place to get used to being around dogs she doesn't know in a strange place.

Max was fine without lots of show and goes because he went to trials with me and Sassy from the second week he was with me so knew all the venues and dogs in the area and that won't be the case with Ginger. I did every show and go for 50 miles around for quite a while with Sassy and it really helped a lot.

You don't have to run each course like a trial either. You can stop and reward as you please [and allowed], go back and work a bit that she didn't understand and so on. If the course is the same you could use the whole 2 minutes the first time training and then run through the next. Watch the experienced handlers with baby dogs. Usually it looks like a play session with lots of tossed toys and tug games throughout the time on the course. They will make a circle to go back and work a move again rather than reset the dog too because as we very well know it was our handling that meant the dog didn't perform the move correctly and we are the ones that need the do over.

That arm is super important. I have lost legs with my 'floating' arm that sent Max away when he needs to be close. On his first run ever in competition I floated the arm and he ran around the A frame. Good dog that he is we just circled and I did it properly and he Qed. And it is super irritating that Ginger wants the proper cue for each obstacle as I generally get all flustered and tell the dog to go up that thing there and such no matter how hard I work my cues during the walk throughs. First jumpers course I ever Qed on I just called out the numbers so I didn't get lost and that worked for me on courses with few marker tunnels later on as well. Guess that won't work with little Missy unless I practice that.

Haven't reset the back yard after moving everything off to water yet. There is just a small trash can out there for send work. Max is awesome at it and loves to send for his supper but Ginger thinks the sequence is to face me, run a bit and look at me, spin a couple times then go zoom around the can. Back to the beginning I guess.


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Yes! The price is great! And yeah, if you think about it as a training opportunity, much less pressure than a "real trial". Plus, you gotta get the first one out of the way sometime right? That's what I kept telling myself at my first trial to try and help with the nerves. Great exposure for her but for you too!


Yeah, definitely. Me and my nerves need at least as much work as Kylie and hers. There's another Show-n-Go next month at the same place that I will probably go watch, just so I can get a feel of things. Work myself up to doing *stuff*, and get us both a little more comfortable.



> nd it is super irritating that Ginger wants the proper cue for each obstacle as I generally get all flustered and tell the dog to go up that thing there and such no matter how hard I work my cues during the walk throughs.


LOL. Yeah, that sounds familiar. Other people in class? Tell the dog to jump at a tunnel, but signal the tunnel? They take the tunnel. I tell Kylie to jump at a tunnel and she sits down and barks at me because "that's not right, Mom." Fortunately, she'll take some generalized cues (over (tire, jump, hoop), tunnel (tunnel, chute), climb (a-frame, dog walk). teeter gets its own as will weaves), just not 'over' for 'tunnel'. 

The arm being down means more to her than the arm being up. Which means go, or go that way depending. It comes down and I'm going to have her rushing in toward me, whether she's on an obstacle or not. We're figuring it out, though, and MAN it's more fun when it's this kind of thing instead of 'this is an obstacle, do it.'

ETA: Actually, re arm.








You can see exactly what I mean when she's coming off hte dog walk and my arm stops to drop. She veers in toward me until I throw it back out and give the verbal. I was also WAY too slow on the verbal.

I totally need to make my husband video more of this stuff. Seeing myself from the outside is HUGELY helpful. Way more than I expected.


----------



## GrinningDog

I'm going to watch a Masters level agility class tonight. If I get a good impression, I'll be scheduling a half-hour private assessment with the trainer to determine what level we're at. Then we'll be in classes again! Wahoo! I'm sure gonna miss the people at our old facility. Hated to leave them when we moved. But I have high hopes for this new place. The main trainer sounds awesome.

I'm hoping that getting back into agility will help build Gypsy's confidence in other things. She's been having pretty severe fear issues in our new apartment complex.  I think she needs an outlet for her energy and a place were she feels happy and anxiety-free.

And because I'm missing agility, I'll drop these pictures and vid here. It makes me happy to look at them. I don't think I've shared them yet?


Dogwalk! 2o2o by grinningd0g, on Flickr


Dogwalk 2o2o by grinningd0g, on Flickr

And a crappy video, haha:


----------



## SDRRanger

Awww, I hope you like it and Gypsy has fun. I'm sure she'll feel better once she has more of a job and outlet again.


----------



## kadylady

Nice weaves Gypsy!!


----------



## LoMD13

We had a nice class today! The biggest struggle I have with Lola is consistency at tapping into her drive. There's no middle ground for her, she's either going full out 100%, and when she does she is as fast as a little dog can be...or she's lagging behind acting like this is the stupidest thing ever. 

I've discovered that she is VERY toy driven, but only when they are brand new. I bought her a new mouse toy and for the first run, she was unbelievably fast. Once I gave it to her as a reward though, she wouldn't work for it again for the rest of the night and acted like I was a fool for even suggesting she'd want it. Thanks dog LOL.


----------



## kadylady

Great great great class tonight! We worked on a really tough 10 jump sequence, it included a backside, a serpentine, and a threadle. We ended on it last week and didn't get much time to work on it which left me feeling kind of frustrated at the end of the class. So this week we broke it down into 2 parts, worked those parts separately then put it all back together. And holy crap our final put it all back together run was A-MAZING! My instructor has really been on me about blending better and showing her the desired path in a timely manner. And I finally felt like I accomplished that tonight! The threadle was really difficult for us last week, I was struggling a lot with my timing which was really messing her up. Did so much better with that this week and our last run through she read it perfect. Felt so awesome tonight!

Mailed entries today for our next trial, July AKC.


----------



## Kathyy

Me and Ginger did okay tonight too. The stinker was HITTING her contacts like glue IF she was on the walk/teeter/frame because she snuck on and bouncing off or to the side if she was told to run whatever plank we were working. Did two different sequences as well and she was sending into the tunnel really well which made me happy after all the send practice we have been doing this past week. 

I worked really hard on attention by shortening up her leash so she had less room to sniff and telling her she was a good girl when she looked at me instead of sniffing and when we went into the other baby dog field she was able to concentrate better than on the big dog field last week. She [and the other dogs as well] were able to look at one another without making faces or noises which was nice.

I didn't think she was much affected by heat but just like Max when the temperature dropped a couple degrees she was clearly more comfortable. When I left home it was still over 90*F in that town so was probably still over 80*F when I got there and I am sure it was more like 70*F when I left at 8:30.


----------



## Tashapaws

Well, today has been our first mock trial. We can only get better from now on: we arrived there too soon, stayed there four hours waiting and when our turn came some people had taken down part of the barrier that covered the ring, that and the fact that Natasha was really stressed made her start running around as soon as I let her off-leash. 
So yeah... not quite good.


----------



## CptJack

Tashapaws said:


> Well, today has been our first mock trial. We can only get better from now on: we arrived there too soon, stayed there four hours waiting and when our turn came some people had taken down part of the barrier that covered the ring, that and the fact that Natasha was really stressed made her start running around as soon as I let her off-leash.
> So yeah... not quite good.


It happens. I'm pretty convinced it happens to everyone, at all levels. And she's still had the experience of a crowd, people, and trial type setting and that's a good thing! 

I'm no longer concerned about Thud in this class, but am really excited and looking forward to it. I still expect that we're going to have issues with the setting re: distractions, but we have gotten him targeting, introduced him to the tunnel and had him love it and have him doing get outs through a jump with the pole down. Basically, by the time class starts he shouldn't have to learn any new skills, just work on his behavior with distractions. I also kind of plan to get all the dogs out there to play with the tunnel later this week, because we had an whole line of little dogs sitting at the fence watching wistfully. 

Kylie, meanwhile, we're working with treadles. I also need to work on chaining the 'get out' to the 'over' (or whatever), because she doesn't quite seem to understand that I'm asking her to go over there and jump. I screwed something up with that one, somewhere. I'm not quite sure how to fix it, but we'll mess around with it and figure it out. The weird jump configurations seem to be helping some. I think we're also going to start hauling at least a single jump and tunnel around to some of our common off leash running places. It'll be annoying, but hopefully worthwhile in teaching that agility can happen anywhere there's equipment.

So, you know, Goals until the next class, and I am having SO MUCH FUN.


----------



## CptJack

And I have emailed the agility instructor who also happens to be the person who hosts most of the local trials about those two show-n-gos and am waiting on confirmation. My plan right now is that we'll go to the one in June to let Kylie get used to the feeling of the place, stuff her face with treats and let her get comfortable and take her for a few runs in July. Maybe bring Thud along to be the observer and learner in that scenario, depending. This of course requires the instructor/host not tell me dogs aren't allowed to be there if they aren't working.

I also sent off her NADAC registration. I'm kind of boggled here. It feels like we're actually going to *do agility* instead of just play with it. How'd that happen?!

*ETA:* Confirmed. We're going to go in June and stuff her full of treats and teach her some manners, and go back in July and actually play on the field.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

WAHOO! Kimma finally got her first QQ! She's the first female Finnish Spitz to get one, and the second ever in the breed. I'm so proud of my girl! Now we've just got to get over the stress issues (JWW felt like pulling teeth, she was running so slowly!) and we will be great


----------



## kadylady

Finkie_Mom said:


> WAHOO! Kimma finally got her first QQ! She's the first female Finnish Spitz to get one, and the second ever in the breed. I'm so proud of my girl! Now we've just got to get over the stress issues (JWW felt like pulling teeth, she was running so slowly!) and we will be great


Go Kimma!!! Congrats Finkie_Mom!!


----------



## elrohwen

Well, the decision to quit agility was made for me. My company is transferring me 2 hours north for 10 months. It could end up being permanent, which would better than staying in a hotel every week and then I could buy a house and bring the dog up. My husband wasn't transferred, so he'll stay here with the pup and bunnies and I'll come home on weekends, but no more agility or any other training classes for us. 

I might be able to finish the last 4 weeks of my current session though. There are classes at 8pm and if I drove down after work and he drove the dog out there, we could make it work. Watson honestly hasn't been enjoying it that much (he goes through fear issues with the teeter and other contact obstacles) so I'm not sure it's worth the extra driving.

I'm really disappointed though. I won't even get to see him 4 nights a week and our training will be more or less on hold for a year.


----------



## CptJack

That sucks, Elrohewen. Being away from Watson that much and sidelined for a year doesn't sound fun at all, even if taking a break was something you were thinking about, anyway. 

Agility instructor just emailed saying she'd forgotten our make-up class, so we're going to be playing outside at her agility field tomorrow. It's going to be one of those exciting classes, I can just tell. Good news is, that it both closes the gap between sessions a little bit and it's outside practice before the show-n-go in June. In which I'm still going with the intent of feeding her treats and other people are going "GET HER ON THE FIELD". I still don't know what's happening with that. But outside practice is good!


----------



## GrinningDog

Congratulations, Finkie_Mom! Huge accomplishment! 



elrohwen said:


> Well, the decision to quit agility was made for me. My company is transferring me 2 hours north for 10 months. It could end up being permanent, which would better than staying in a hotel every week and then I could buy a house and bring the dog up. My husband wasn't transferred, so he'll stay here with the pup and bunnies and I'll come home on weekends, but no more agility or any other training classes for us.
> 
> I might be able to finish the last 4 weeks of my current session though. There are classes at 8pm and if I drove down after work and he drove the dog out there, we could make it work. Watson honestly hasn't been enjoying it that much (he goes through fear issues with the teeter and other contact obstacles) so I'm not sure it's worth the extra driving.
> 
> I'm really disappointed though. I won't even get to see him 4 nights a week and our training will be more or less on hold for a year.


That's a huge, stressful life change, yikes. It'll be sad not to see Watson (and your husband?) during the week. Sorry to hear that. 

But for the agility, maybe not the worst thing. Watson is still very young. It might not hurt to give him time to mature, and revisit agility when he's older. I think if I had done agility with an <3-year-old Gypsy, I would have found it incredibly challenging. In her case, she had to learn some impulse control and how to chill (a little).


----------



## SDRRanger

Man, I missed a lot here over the weekend. 

Congrats Finkie_mom, and big congrats to Kimma for showing off her breed  

Elrohwen, I'm sorry for the disappointment you must be feeling (and my SO is in the navy so I understand the frustration/etc of not being able to be with your person). Look at it this way though; you were considering taking a break, but worried that it wouldn't be in his best interests. You were undecided and I'm (assuming) worried you'd pick the wrong choice...this way, it's been made so that's one less thing to stress about, right? I'm sure you'll both come back to it and see loads of positive results  

CptJack: I am waiting in only slightly less excitement than you to see Thud in classes lol ....


----------



## elrohwen

I'm not as upset about the agility as I am about leaving my home, dog, husband, and bunnies every week. I feel like I'm going to miss Watson growing up :-(


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> CptJack: I am waiting in only slightly less excitement than you to see Thud in classes lol ....


You're just excited for the opportunity to laugh at me. It's okay, I'm prepared. ;-)

I have never wanted to go to an agility class *less* than I do this one. I don't know what my problem is. Should be us and one, maybe 2 other dogs. It's a fantastic opportunity for more attention and work and a new environment. I just... don't wanna. I think it's because I thought we were on break but aren't and my schedule got changed but MEH.

Will update when I'm back. I'll call that my reward.


----------



## Laurelin

Our small dog class is renting out a TDAA ring a few times a month now! I'm super stoked because 1) More practice! For 2 hours it is $50 and split between 5 people. So not bad at all. And 2) we get extra time on the TDAA equipment at the place where they host 7 TDAA trials a year. Hopefully with the actual trial facility becoming 'home turf' it will help the dogs really rock out the trials. 

Is it bad I'm already thinking we may actually get our TACh? I know we have a ways but.... 

And my trainer is actually getting us some TDAA equipment at the facility now too and we can use the barn. She runs big dogs but we have a group that is toy dogs so she's helping us out to get practice on TDAA size equipment. I'm excited!

Elrohwen, that sucks you have to travel so much. I couldn't do it.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Elrohwen, that sucks you have to travel so much. I couldn't do it.


Yeah, it really really does. I traveled a lot for work in my previous job (though not all week every week) and I hated it. I waited 5 years to be out of that job and have a stable non-travel job before I got a dog, and now I'm stuck traveling again.


----------



## Laurelin

Man that sucks so bad.


----------



## Laurelin

Also, so I guess this is a good a place as any other but I got to meet some very cool agility shelties last weekend and am going to meet more this weekend. <3 I mean I had met the ones last weekend before but I got to pick their owners' brains some and got to run one of them a bit. So fast. So much fun. Such cool dogs.

This weekend there will be PUPPIES. Tricolor sheltie fluffballs.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Also, so I guess this is a good a place as any other but I got to meet some very cool agility shelties last weekend and am going to meet more this weekend. <3 I mean I had met the ones last weekend before but I got to pick their owners' brains some and got to run one of them a bit. So fast. So much fun. Such cool dogs.
> 
> This weekend there will be PUPPIES. Tricolor sheltie fluffballs.


I am so excited. And maybe just a little bit jealous because I'm leaning more and more toward sheltie.

Tonight's class was mostly just strange. It was a 'make up' class, but all but one of the dogs was there. It was outside, the equipment was different and there were more distractions but everyone did fairly well. We did get more chat time with the instructor which was nice. I think I'm going to try to get a private lesson in there sometime between now and the next class. I really need to work on my timing in general, but tonight specifically it was just crap. Like Kylie would finish an obstacle and we'd be two steps toward the next one before I'd remember to signal or call it. I don't know what was wrong with my brain, but it wasn't pretty.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

We've been gone a long, long time and I'm sure not many (if any!) remember us. But I still thought I would share some Harleigh updates!

We took off a year of agility training (mainly due to schedule conflicts), but I contacted our former trainer to see if there were any openings and we started back up last month. Harleigh is so very excited to be back, she enjoys every minute  

I was surprised at how much she remembered after not doing really anything agility related for that long. Me on the other hand? Hahahahaha! I forgot so much handling skills! 99.9% of the mistakes Harleigh does are completely my fault and my instructor makes sure I know that lol. 

We dp still have confident issues with the teeter at times, but she is slowly getting better about it. Everything else she does with much enthusiasm. I'm so glad I decided to get her back into it because she loves it so much and you can definitely tell that she is happy to be back.

Anyways, enough yapping on my part. Here are a couple videos.

This first video is not very good quality, not sure why as it was taken with the same phone as the second video. But whatever. 





A little bit of background on this video. She was supposed to start at the broad jump and end at the last jump in the pinwheel. That was it. 

But little miss overachiever decided she wanted to do ALL THE THINGS and finish the course out.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and Kylie fell off the side of the a-frame today because the instructor tried to feed her cheese on the way down and Kylie veered so far away from her she ran out of a-frame. It wasn't very far, she owned her mistake and added: "Forgot I was working with the Princess." Which kind of sums up everything, ever, about Kylie. She's not afraid of the instructor, will trot around behind her all day. BUT DON"T LOOK LIKE YOU MIGHT TOUCH HER, OMG.


----------



## SDRRanger

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MY ARMS /rant

Today's class was pretty good although we did have some little hiccups. I think a lot has to do with Ranger's limited exercise since last Friday, and throw in the warmer evening. We started with having them go over some low caveletti work and then some table work. Ranger is happy to bounce on and off the table, but still needs luring into the down. I really need to work on it at home, but first need to find something to be the table. He has a pretty solid "go to your mat" so that should help us. 

Jump-tunnel-jump involved him coming unglued and trying to climb/jump/stand on the tunnel entrance the first couple tries. Just full of bouncy _omgicannotcontainmyself_ energy but we finally managed a good sequence. We're still running into issues with him watching me or my hands and not paying attention (which I think had a lot to do with this). I end up moving like a robot with my arms by my side trying to draw no attention to them, but sometimes he still tries to come mouth them and loses his line to the next obstacle. Putting them on my stomach doesn't help either. 

His A-frame was good, but he's fast and we weren't using a wait before it. If I rush to get to the other side he goes faster, if I stay slow he is ahead of me and I can't see to click as he hits the contact. I know a lot has to do with my timing and ability so we'll trundle along. Maybe I should ask to put him in a wait before most obstacles? 

Tunnel-jump-tunnel had to be broken down into a reward after each piece to slow him down and re-engage his brain. He did check out once though and bombed past the tunnel and headed for the fence...I ran (read: quickly hobbled) in the opposite direction and he came right back (this was before we broke it down). 

Sometimes I watch the other people in the class and wish my dog was as slow. It's partially that he's the biggest dog in the class (him and one other are jumping at 16", the rest are at 10") so he's obviously going to get places faster, but even the other big dog has a beautiful slow canter between obstacles while mine it creating his own squeal marks and dust clouds. I think it's going to take us longer to get farther along (not that I care how long it takes us if/when we're ready to trial) only because I have to learn how to do everything fast...and trying to control my brain, eyes, voice, and arms while he's at mach 10 makes me feel like a lump.

*deep breath*

Ranger's teeter (and eventual teeter-jump-jump) were the highlight of my class though. I use a wait command so that I can get up to the end in time (still having the instructor there to control it) and he handled it really well and wasn't bothered by the noise. He released and popped over both jumps...apparently it's the straightest they've every seen him go. I'm super happy he enjoys the teeter because when we started with the baby teeter last summer at a previous beginner agility he was terrified of the noise and we had to use pillows under the landing to soften it. Also, at least for now, his wait is fantastic. 

Is it easier or harder to start agility with a fast dog? While I glance wistfully at the other people who need to encourage their dogs to pick up the pace in class I can't help but feel a little jealous since I blink and mine would be 5 jumps ahead. This is the dog who kept taking the last two once strides as a spread jump in our last set of sessions.


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> Is it easier or harder to start agility with a fast dog? While I glance wistfully at the other people who need to encourage their dogs to pick up the pace in class I can't help but feel a little jealous since I blink and mine would be 5 jumps ahead. This is the dog who kept taking the last two once strides as a spread jump in our last set of sessions.


Honestly, I'm pretty happy with my pokey dog. Kylie can book it, but in agility she's willing to stay step by step with me, rather than tearing off. It's why the instructor is coming down on me like a ton of bricks right now. In order for Kylie to go I have two choices: Haul my fat butt fast enough around the course to not slow her down (yeah, right), or get on the ball and give her commands at a speed that keeps her from slowing down. It's not without pitfalls and problems, obviously. I am having MAJOR timing issues right now, for whatever reason. ANY delay in her finishing one obstacle and the command and cue for the next, and she loses momentum and swings in toward me. If my arm so much as STARTS to lower, she's doing the same thing, so the physical cue and verbal have to be RIGHT THERE for her, or we're going at the slow trot seen in my video. 

But I've never, and I mean never, lost control of her. She's ONCE blown past one obstacle to take another. She's NEVER left a contact without waiting on me to catch up. She missed a contact once and that was the thing I mentioned with veering all the way off the side to avoid the instructor. And moving at the speed of Me means I could teach her the verbals really easily, because she was with me while she was doing it.

So um. Yeah. Given my druthers for learning, I'd prefer slow.


----------



## SDRRanger

I'd prefer a slower dog to learn on I think too. I'll release Ranger for a jump-jump-jump (for example) and have to be damn near at the next jump before I release him otherwise he's blasted over the jump and past me over the second before I can even start trying to help him know where to go next. It would be nice to have a little short strided trot to work with so I could have a chance sometimes to LOOK where I am going/how he's responding/where he's going next before he's already done everything I've told him and feeling like I've left him hanging without guidance and support. 

And if I stay slow he will jump to shoulder height beside me and try to figure out what the next thing is supposed to be. Thankfully we're only doing small sequences so I can kind of try to keep him on track but then that also gives me no time to figure out my own fumbling arms/legs/hands.


----------



## Laurelin

Bittersweet stuff going on here... I switched classes. I loved my old class but this time is better and it's a more competitive class. So it's a better fit by far. Summer held her own tonight and then some with all the young herding breeds. Everyone is trialing in this class so that's good. Our weaves are not where the others' are but other than that, she was actually probably the best with the handling stuff. She did great today and was fast despite it being hot. It's also a better time for me to get there after work without rushing and also it's later in the evening so a touch cooler...

But now I have to tell my friends from the other class that I am moving to a new class. Sucks. I really liked my old small dog class. I do like and know all the people in my new class though. I've had class with all but one before and have talked to the other girl at trials. 

And this weekend we are doing a TDAA ring rental with my old class. :/ So I guess I will have to tell them then.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer is a great learning speed. She's fast but not as fast as a lot of the larger dogs. I don't have to cheerlead unless it's 95+ and sunny out but I also can usually keep pace with her. She's also very responsive and just plain very keyed in with me. She hardly ever blows me off to go run something else. So that's nice. But I'd hate to have to cheerlead for motivation.

I've run a couple dogs that are not just fast but so incredibly fast. I ran a friend's MACH and nationals and world teams' tryout sheltie last saturday and HOLYSHIT. I would still be lost with a dog like that. He is cool but you have to be way ahead. She's trained him for incredible distance work and rock solid contact stops. Otherwise I would have been lost. 

I'm hoping next dog is a bit drivier and speedier than Summer but not Asher level yet.

I think Summer is actually really fast for an elderly 9 inch tall dog. She blows her contacts when she's booking it and has bailed A frames and dog walks many times. 

I swear I could not have picked a better learner's dog though. She makes me look so much better than I am.

Summer speed:


----------



## kadylady

Zoey has been a fantastic first dog to learn with. She is super handler focused, very serious about her "job" and generally matches my pace pretty well. The stage we are at right now, I am actually working on getting her more amped up in practice and training, because we get in the ring at a trial and all of the sudden she has some SPEED! And speed definitely changes things, we both need practice at that faster pace and sometimes its really hard to get that out of her at class or practice.


----------



## sassafras

Well Squash has officially started his agility career. This was the first night, and mostly we just had various pieces of really basic equipment laying around and took turns introducing our dogs to investigating and getting on stuff... Like, planks from the dog walk and teeter just on the floor, some pool noodle and PVC cavalettis, a gentle wobble board, a few low perches, a short tunnel, a box to play shaping with, stuff like that. Squash gave no effs about anything, as usual. Also discussed shaping and general good habits to get into (like working your dog from both sides of your body). 

The only thing I wasn't thrilled about is that there are a lot of dogs in the class and it was a little chaotic and hard to stay out of each other's way all the time. Squash got a little grumpy and laid a verbal smackdown on an overly enthusiastically greeting adolescent Golden (oh, the irony dripping off THAT encounter) and we had to just stand off to the side working on focus for awhile, but all in all I think it will be fun.


----------



## SDRRanger

I can't wait to hear Squash's agility adventures! How tall is Squash at the withers?

Maybe if Ranger's legs were only as long as Summer's I'd be able to keep up more...maybe she's super fast, but it's retarded by the length of stride. Ranger is 24" at the shoulder which means there is A LOT of leg underneath him for zooming.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah Summer does run faster (harder) than most dogs but her legs are short so she has to take a lot more strides. 

But like.... the sheltie I was talking about is only 14" at the withers but he is way fast anyways. I can't really think of many dogs that are faster than him. He is very high drive though. Summer is not very high drive.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson is fairly slow which makes things so much easier for me. Part of that is that he's unsure, so he's not going to run on ahead taking random obstacles. If anything, he'll zoom away not taking any obstacles. I think with confidence and distance training he will pick up speed, but for now it's nice that he goes my speed. I don't necessarily need to cheerlead - he's a fast and somewhat drivey dog normally, he's just still unsure about this agility thing and doesn't find much intrinsic value in the game yet. I think if we take it slow he'll get there and the speed will increase a lot. When he's confident, he doesn't need cheerleading.

There is an Aussie girl in our class who is ridiculously fast. Her owner is new at this and has such a hard time getting her cues out before the dog is halfway across the ring doing the dog walk or something. She's had to learn lot of handling skills in a short time, but it's nice that when she gets it right, her dog gets it right. If she moves fast and confidently, the dog is right there and perfect. As our instructor says, "If you're going to drive a Maserati, you've gotta hit the accelerator!"

So yeah, it's easier to have a dog who goes your speed starting out I think. Then again, I would take that Mazerati over a dog like Watson who is unsure and distracted and ready to zoom off at a moment's notice. The grass is always greener.

ETA: Edited to correct my spelling of Maserati ;-)


----------



## sassafras

SDRRanger said:


> I can't wait to hear Squash's agility adventures! How tall is Squash at the withers?


I can't remember, but I think around 26-27"


----------



## CptJack

> "If you're going to drive a Mazerati, you've gotta hit the accelerator!"


...Sounds like our instructors took pages from the same book. If not in agility training then metaphor use, because that's really close to what mine keeps telling me about Kylie. It's sad. I've been hearing this stuff for, oh, four months and I'm now more willing to trust that Kylie is going to do what she's asked to do, but I still fumble commands and cues and timing all over the place.

Honestly, Kylie is dead on perfect for me. If I'm fast, she can and will book it. If I'm off my game, or just slow with a command she just slows down and stays with me, or waits on me. That's not something I (or Instructor Lady) expects to last - there is some 'Green dog' going on with her, where she's not sure where the sequence ends and is sort of anticipating that it might at any given moment. For now, it's nice and is at least making me feel like I have control of my dog. Whether she ever gets really good or not, she's going to be a dog I learn a lot with and that will teach me a lot for the next dog I do this with. 

I don't expect that feeling to last when I take Thud. I also don't expect to take more than one class with Thud, unless he suddenly engages and blows me away.


----------



## GrinningDog

Gypsy is too fast for me, aheh. I'll readily admit it. We did an agility league, for-fun team competition thingy, where we watched probably 25 other dogs run full courses over a 6-week session. And ran them ourselves. Gypsy was one of the fastest, drivest dogs, even compared to the other border collies. My dad, who came to watch several times, swore she WAS the fastest and said there was no contest. I dunno. I DO know that we definitely weren't the most accurate!

We're only now, after a half year of classes and a near-half-year of basically private lessons, getting my handling skills to the point where I can run my dog with some skill. She is very loud, very eager, and veryvery fast... and I'm so green! Haha! My instructor ran her through a course one day, to demonstrate something, and I was just floored. They were incredible together! I think my instructor was struck by the moment too. She joked about keeping Gypsy to trial with and giving her back to me to live with. I want to get to that point with my dog, where when we run a course together it's an incredible thing.

By the way, I watched some classes at our new FL facility, loved them, loved the trainer, so I scheduled an assessment. That was Tues night. We did some sequences, some quite tricky, and Gypsy blew me away. She held all of her startline stays, all of her contacts, stayed focused even with the new outdoor facility and a month off. Did everything I asked of her. I was so proud! The instructor loved Gyp, was highly complimentary, and was excited to work with us. We're currently awaiting an email with our class & time options, and then we'll be back into agility. Can't wait!


----------



## Kathyy

Most any dog can outrun us. We need to get lateral distance on the dog. That extra stride really makes a huge difference. 
That plus a good send to tunnels and around pinwheels and you have it made unless the judge has made up a particularly evil course. The issue is with newbie dogs you don't have that 5' away from the jump and they refuse to go into the tunnel or around a pinwheel unless you are right with them. This will pass. Did a seminar with Bud Houston a million years ago and even though the people with the speedy dogs didn't think they could everybody in class could do fronts and such with the dogs at the end of the day. My dog was tired but I don't think the BCs had lost any speed!

I really didn't want to be doing sequences early on as keeping up is impossible with most dogs. I want to learn individual obstacles, contacts, work on sending, turns, short tricky jump sequences like serps and such first.

I have trouble working with Ginger in class as I don't want her zooming up to a dog, getting scared and doing the buzz saw thing and she is having trouble understanding me standing lateral to her and asking for a jump at home but this will pass soon enough. I hope. As is fronts are not possible but she is doing great serps for me.

Get homework from your instructor on sending and working away. I use a small trash can to send Ginger around and she thinks it is a blast. Now translating that to an exercise in class is another matter but it will work out eventually. I hope.

It is a huge challenge working with a long strided dog. You are going to have to work on him being on the correct lead or he is never going to be able to run an efficient course having so few strides between obstacles. It is awesome seeing a well trained dog doing this. Candy Geiser runs whippets, foxhounds and lurchers here and you can see her dogs switch leads, really neat to see. They don't look like they are moving but blink and the course has been run. I suspect this was one of the reasons Sassy was like driving a truck, if I cued her late she couldn't turn and would just decide to do what was the logical obstacle for her. Max was a lot more flexible in his back and could switch leads and turn if I messed up. Don't remember off hand how it is taught though. Probably cuing properly does most of the work for you. I cued Sassy for the obstacle after the one she was on before she took off. Max would pull off in mid air if I did that with him.


----------



## MrsBoats

> Is it easier or harder to start agility with a fast dog? While I glance wistfully at the other people who need to encourage their dogs to pick up the pace in class I can't help but feel a little jealous since I blink and mine would be 5 jumps ahead. This is the dog who kept taking the last two once strides as a spread jump in our last set of sessions.


I feel it's harder. My friend who was teaching the class I had been taking with Lars once told me - I couldn't have found a harder dog than Lars to learn agility with if I tried. And that's true. Faster and bigger dogs don't give you the time or the space to fix your incorrect handling. You have to be early with your cues and you have to treat agility as lines of obstacles versus individual pieces. Lars or Ocean can cover the same amount of space in 2 strides that a sheltie can cover in 5, 6, or 7 strides. Like Kathy mentioned above...I have distance on my dogs where I can send them to something and while they are off doing whatever, I'm getting myself in place to handle the next line. 

Looking forward to hearing about agility adventures with Squash...you wait Sass, you will become ADDICTED to agility.


----------



## CptJack

Kathyy said:


> I really didn't want to be doing sequences early on as keeping up is impossible with most dogs. I want to learn individual obstacles, contacts, work on sending, turns, short tricky jump sequences like serps and such first.


I have to agree with this. I am NOT an expert so probably don't have any business having an opinion, but sometimes I hear other people talking about their very, very beginner/foundations classes and I get confused. We spent a good two months where 95% of the work was how to send the dog out and around buckets, sending the dog to targets, and doing the various crosses without obstacles. I mean, yeah, we introduced a tunnel and I think a low jump, but we did so much flat work. Then we introduced obstacles individually, and a lot of our jump work was stuff like sending over a single jump from different angles, or staying stationary between two jumps and sending the dog in a figure 8 over both, from assorted directions. Once all that was introduced we started on sequences, and at first even those were like the big loop in my video - no changing sides, or crosses of any sort necessary. THEN we started with like 3 obstacles and obstacle discrimination and pulling the dog around what you didn't want them to do to what you did. End of this class we were doing some crosses mid-course and moving with a little bit more speed.

I can not imagine trying to handle a dog on the course without every bit of the foundations stuff firmly in place BEFORE trying to add it to the obstacles, to be honest. I mean clearly it's working well but I would be utterly and completely lost, overwhelmed, and probably curled up somewhere sobbing.


----------



## Laurelin

I feel like the flip side of the stride thing though is that me and most small dog people I know have a harder time doing distance stuff. I think it's because what takes a 26 inch dog 1-2 strides MAYBE takes Summer like... 10 strides. So she really has to commit to leaving me and driving out.

Or it could be a Summer thing. She is very Velcro and wants to stay right with me 24/7. That is one of my main focuses lately- just forcing her to run at a distance. Even if right now it means I am running away from the dog walk while she's already committed.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I have to agree with this. I am NOT an expert so probably don't have any business having an opinion, but sometimes I hear other people talking about their very, very beginner/foundations classes and I get confused. We spent a good two months where 95% of the work was how to send the dog out and around buckets, sending the dog to targets, and doing the various crosses without obstacles. I mean, yeah, we introduced a tunnel and I think a low jump, but we did so much flat work.


I think I'm one who may have caused confusion? I seem to get people thinking my beginner/foundation class is all sequences or something. We did a 7 week session, almost two months, exactly the way you described. In the next class of 7 weeks, sequences were maybe two obstacles. So maybe I just gloss over that? But we had at least 14 weeks of almost entirely individual obstacles, targets, flat work and things like that. 6 months in, we *still* brush up on things like that every class.

So yeah, I call my class a beginner class because I feel that I'm very much a beginner, and so are the people in it, but we have all been taking classes for 6+ months. These aren't pure foundations classes for brand new people anymore when I refer to a 3-5 obstacle sequence. No way are they starting beginning classes like that. The class I'm in now, 6 months down the line, is still very much foundations - learning individual obstacles, contacts, simple handling things like front crosses, etc. It's just all done with actual jumps (very low) and actual curved tunnels. I think I give the impression that it's much more advanced than it is?

Honestly, your classes are moving much faster than mine ever have. Haha


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Z-XA4UvfI

This. This is the kind of thing that just makes my jaw drop (speaking of distance work!)



elrohwen said:


> I think I'm one who may have caused confusion? I seem to get people thinking my beginner/foundation class is all sequences or something. We did a 7 week session, almost two months, exactly the way you described. In the next class of 7 weeks, sequences were maybe two obstacles. So maybe I just gloss over that? But we had at least 14 weeks of almost entirely individual obstacles, targets, flat work and things like that. 6 months in, we *still* brush up on things like that every class.
> 
> So yeah, I call my class a beginner class because I feel that I'm very much a beginner, and so are the people in it, but we have all been taking classes for 6+ months. These aren't pure foundations classes for brand new people anymore when I refer to a 3-5 obstacle sequence. No way are they starting beginning classes like that. The class I'm in now, 6 months down the line, is still very much foundations - learning individual obstacles, contacts, simple handling things like front crosses, etc. It's just all done with actual jumps (very low) and actual curved tunnels. I think I give the impression that it's much more advanced than it is?
> 
> Honestly, your classes are moving much faster than mine ever have. Haha


We talked about it once, but you gave me more info and I think it made more sense to me? Though yeah, I was thinking you were in like... Foundations. Mostly I was thinking about real life people. The other club in driving distance (opposite direction) is the one a couple from my husband's gaming group go to. They started after Kylie and they pretty much introduced all the obstacles over 2 classes and then just sort of... work handling in around that, from what they said. I don't know how TRUE that is, but I don't really doubt them, either. I'm also pretty sure that particular facility only does 'for fun' agility and focuses mainly on rally, so who knows. It just sounds miserable and chaotic to me. 

The speed my class moves at... I'm going to be cycling between beginner and intermediate depending on what's offered for a while, I think. The truth is, Foundations were very, very basic. Then we hit Beginner and the learning curve and speed of introducing new things shot through the roof. The other handlers and dogs are doing well with it, but mostly they've been competitive in the past or are competing with other dogs now. The instructor is also crazy competitive and massively involved in NADAC. We still have no weaves and only half a teeter, though, so that's something. 

I'm kind of scared of the intermediate class. The woman with the golden is TRIALING her lab (and getting Qs and actually got her first title) while IN that class (for the first time). The instructor is making noises about us actually entering the local trial in October - like ALL OF US. I think she's lost her freaking mind.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I feel like the flip side of the stride thing though is that me and most small dog people I know have a harder time doing distance stuff. I think it's because what takes a 26 inch dog 1-2 strides MAYBE takes Summer like... 10 strides. So she really has to commit to leaving me and driving out.
> 
> Or it could be a Summer thing. She is very Velcro and wants to stay right with me 24/7. That is one of my main focuses lately- just forcing her to run at a distance. Even if right now it means I am running away from the dog walk while she's already committed.



In a Denise Fenzi class someone had trouble getting her chi mix to send around a cone, and Denise said her little chixterrier has the same issue. So maybe trouble with distance work is a small dog thing? She said in a week her big dogs would be sending to a cone across a football field, while the little dog could barely do 10ft after a month of work.


----------



## MrsBoats

Laurelin said:


> I feel like the flip side of the stride thing though is that me and most small dog people I know have a harder time doing distance stuff. I think it's because what takes a 26 inch dog 1-2 strides MAYBE takes Summer like... 10 strides. So she really has to commit to leaving me and driving out.
> 
> Or it could be a Summer thing. She is very Velcro and wants to stay right with me 24/7. That is one of my main focuses lately- just forcing her to run at a distance. Even if right now it means I am running away from the dog walk while she's already committed.


Absolutely. With a smaller dog, you're going to be running along side more than I would be with my guys. You can probably pull off a front cross on the landing side of a jump while your dog is committing to take off on that jump. I try that?? I end up catching airborne 80 pounds of 5.5 yards per second in the chest. (I have done that too in class.) I time my front cross while my dogs are landing the jump ahead of the jump I'm front crossing for. Big dog problems versus little dog problem.


----------



## Laurelin

I've really enjoyed running my trainers' dogs some. It's neat to see how different it feels and you have to time it so well. I think my trainer just likes to test me too. She says I'm one of the best runners in her classes (LOL imagine that). 

I'm thinking Nextdog will still be small/medium. Probably 16" jumper. So different but not too different. 

I find myself outpacing Summer a lot. I mean to be fair she's 9 inches tall and 10 years old. She does amazing for all that considered. I have to slow myself down more often than speed myself up. I'm always beating her to obstacles. And that's why we have contact issues even in such a tiny dog because I am always beating her and she'll jump if I do. So that's a work in progress.... But I think my natural 'agility speed' on ME is actually more suited to a slightly bigger/faster dog. I was really nervous the first time I ran the BC but we did not crash and burn at all. It went really well. With the superfast sheltie other than the fact I kept using Summer's 'WAIT' for the teeter instead of 'CONTACT' we did good. He held his contact though. Probably thinking I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.


----------



## MrsBoats

elrohwen said:


> In a Denise Fenzi class someone had trouble getting her chi mix to send around a cone, and Denise said her little chixterrier has the same issue. So maybe trouble with distance work is a small dog thing? She said in a week her big dogs would be sending to a cone across a football field, while the little dog could barely do 10ft after a month of work.


I see this in utility obedience during go outs for directed jumping. Little dogs don't go charging out 50 feet to the back of the ring for the most part...especially in trial settings. To them it must feel like they are running a quarter of a mile out into nothing. A lot of them stall out half way out and stand there and stare at their handlers. You don't see that behavior as much in larger dogs. So, I think issues with working away from handlers very well could be a small dog thing.


----------



## LoMD13

Lola and I definitely have distance issues, I don't really even press the issue anymore since I don't think we really need it except for in gamblers. 

She's got a hurt leg, (but seems to be better), so we're on an agility break for probably the next 2-3 weeks. I'll talk about it with the vet next week.  bummer since the weather finally is nice. I think I'll probably lower the bars down to 4 inches for a few weeks when we go back too.


----------



## MrsBoats

I do know of one little dog who shows locally around here who is very big dog like...he's a min pin and his name is Zeus. He's known around here as "Zeus Almighty." LOL I know his owner pretty well...and she doesn't have a problem with sends on him. In fact, she uses sends a lot like I do so she can get in place to handle as she needs. He's a take charge sort of little guy and a way confident little dog.


----------



## CptJack

I don't even know what to say about Kylie and distance. She'll 'get out' or send as its separate thing for a good thirty feet, to take a jump or circle something before heading back. If I'm stationary. She seems to have no understanding of it applying while we're in motion, though I'm guessing this is something that will get better as we keep practicing it. 

However ANY SIGNAL that I might want her closer, even down to pulling my arm in, slowing down physically, or not giving verbal commands fast enough and she's on my butt. I'm kind of hoping that that's something *I* get better at, with practice. She's willing to be fast and drive ahead, but it's not her default and she's way, way more willing to attach to my ankle than stay away from me. Even tunnels curving away from me she's started getting sketchy about.


----------



## SDRRanger

I think part of our problem too (or at least in my mind) is my health issues. Keeping up with him yesterday evening has resulted in really bad hip pain today and my shuffle foot (not moving my hip joint if at all possible) is back. Granted I'm willing to deal with it for agility once a week, but in the back of my mind I wonder how well I'll be able to manage him when I don't have the little bit in unsureness in him. Honestly yesterday he could have done the sequence 2 -possibly 3- times in the amount of time it took the next fastest dog. I have to stop thinking future and work on now. 

I'm definitely going to look into getting some homework to do at home in between. I've been thinking about starting distance work anyway (just his regular commands from farther away) so this can tie into it. Our instructor is now back from coaching the WAO in Italy so I'll speak with her. 

MrsBoats I can't imagine taking a smash from a big dog as they come over the fence....one day I will remember this as it's happening to me lol.


----------



## Laurelin

This is a good article on this subject, I think:

http://agilitymach.hubpages.com/hub...petitors-are-not-Limited-to-Only-the-Athletic


----------



## elrohwen

SDRRanger said:


> MrsBoats I can't imagine taking a smash from a big dog as they come over the fence....one day I will remember this as it's happening to me lol.


Not a big dog, but a ~40lb dog in our previous class was super fast, and also came towards her handler when he wasn't fast enough with cues. She smashed into him multiple times, but once she tripped him and he landed on his shoulder on the Aframe. Not good! She was kind of like Kylie in that any mishandling brought her in close, but she was also 40lbs and running full speed all the time.


----------



## MrsBoats

Twice I have caught Ocean in the air as he came rocketing over a jump...caught him with my arms and chest. I did stay on my feet thankfully. This weekend he almost slammed into me on the ground at a trial. He came flying over two jumps from his start line and I held my spot facing him to indicate do not take that jump behind me. He was moving much faster than I thought and he grazed my thigh (to the sound of the crowd's **GASP**) and sort of bounced off of me. It worked and he didn't take the jump behind me. 

I'll share a thought that my current instructor has about baby dogs. She's been reminding me to keep working baby dog foundation stuff and easy sequences like straight lines, sweeping curves, straight weave pole entrances. She's noticed this big trend of everyone making young dogs do all of this sexy handling and sequencing before they really need to be doing that. I saw a big name handler have a very hard time with her new young BC on an AKC novice course. The end was a line of 5 jumps on a slight curve. She said her dog hasn't ever seen that and nor would he. Her dog can do jaakko turns, ketchkers, and threadles....but couldn't handle a straight line of jumps. Ocean actually had a hard time maintaining the slight curve and wiped out the upright of the last jump and tried to bounce jump a couple of them. He didn't know how to regulate his stride with speed in a line of slightly curved jumps. He also had a hard time with straight on weave entrances...but I work all of the hard ones at home. My instructor says she's been seeing a lot of people have a hard time getting out of novice and open because they fast tracked basic, baby dog stuff to push the hard handling needed in the higher levels. So, that's what I am going back to with Ocean...easier things while he's still a youngster.


----------



## kadylady

MrsBoats said:


> I'll share a thought that my current instructor has about baby dogs. She's been reminding me to keep working baby dog foundation stuff and easy sequences like straight lines, sweeping curves, straight weave pole entrances. She's noticed this big trend of everyone making young dogs do all of this sexy handling and sequencing before they really need to be doing that. I saw a big name handler have a very hard time with her new young BC on an AKC novice course. The end was a line of 5 jumps on a slight curve. She said her dog hasn't ever seen that and nor would he. Her dog can do jaakko turns, ketchkers, and threadles....but couldn't handle a straight line of jumps. Ocean actually had a hard time maintaining the slight curve and wiped out the upright of the last jump and tried to bounce jump a couple of them. He didn't know how to regulate his stride with speed in a line of slightly curved jumps. He also had a hard time with straight on weave entrances...but I work all of the hard ones at home. My instructor says she's been seeing a lot of people have a hard time getting out of novice and open because they fast tracked basic, baby dog stuff to push the hard handling needed in the higher levels. So, that's what I am going back to with Ocean...easier things while he's still a youngster.


I am kind of in this place with Zoey right now. We are in a class that the focus is learning these different and more advanced jumping and handling skills. This is the 3rd time I've taken this class and I'm signed up again for next session because I love my instructor and I love this class and I love learning as much as I possibly can. But I do have to remember me and my baby dog are still green and while it is fun to learn the fancy stuff and we are doing good with it, we still have to practice the foundations like you said. 2 weeks ago I was really frustrated because we really struggled on a tough sequence. I stayed after class with another lady who I really admire her handling skills and how she runs her dogs and our intention was to keep practicing this sequence. As we were walking it she was like "lets just do something fun instead and work on building Zoey's confidence" She saw in class that our struggling through this sequence was really blowing the confidence for both of us. So we set up a nice big speed circle. Couple jumps, tunnel and the A frame. And we just took turns running laps on that big circle. It was great, Zoey loved it and was picking up the pace and having a blast, and even her and her Master level dogs benefited from it. She really helped me realize that while its okay for us to be practicing the harder stuff, keeping Zoey's confidence up and strengthening our foundations is so much more important right now in the stage that we are at. And wouldn't ya know, the next week when we came back and revisited the tough sequence, I was so less stressed about it and we handled it beautifully!


----------



## Kathyy

CptJack said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Z-XA4UvfI
> 
> This. This is the kind of thing that just makes my jaw drop (speaking of distance work!)
> only half a teeter, though, so that's something.


Wow, I have only seen a few people handle NADAC stuff from a distance and nothing like that. Awesome. And reason I may stick to novice level in that organization. I never had a chance in the open level regular class when the class structure changed and Max has MAD and PIII Gamble titles and legs in IV if not all the Qs required in the CPE Gamble IV level. This is more like how to run a fast dog using sends. http://youtu.be/wHU_ZujIyWU

When I started a million years ago we started sequencing as soon as dogs got the idea that agility was fun and courses were fun but the table, the walk, the teeter and so on were just something to get over so you could do fun jumps and tunnels rather then the way it has properly evolved to everything is fun and rewarding about agility. Sassy and Max were somewhat handicapped by that. I know a wonderful handler who's first dog could NOT get down on the table and could not earn her Championship. One leg short and it was absolutely impossible for her.

Max started trialing and Qing a year after I got him and 6 months after he started classes. Ginger has been in classes since October and has been here 10 months but this fall is the very soonest she might get in the ring. It isn't just putting obstacles into a course, she needs to get comfortable around all the new places, noise and dogs as well. Max had been around it all since the week after I got him. 

Yeah, small dogs have more strides to think about it but they can do it. I know I baby little Ginger more than I babied Max and Sassy, that is part of it. We don't trust the dog and try to keep them close then when we need the distance they won't go. I took a gamble class as I just couldn't get Max's gamble Q for a MAD and after maybe 2 classes we did it. It wasn't him learning new skills, it was me letting him go. Here is a MACH 5 yorkie doing a USDAA Master Gamble class. http://youtu.be/uLol67NhcqM Didn't get the gamble but she did the distance part perfectly.


----------



## SDRRanger

Laurelin said:


> This is a good article on this subject, I think:
> 
> http://agilitymach.hubpages.com/hub...petitors-are-not-Limited-to-Only-the-Athletic


Thanks Laurelin...that's just the type of thing I needed to read


----------



## Finkie_Mom

I think you're always going to want the opposite of your dog in some way or another. When Kimma is blazing fast, I wish she would slow down. When she's slow and stressy, I wish she would speed up. She can give me the best of both worlds and is very forgiving of my mistakes as long as I keep running (if I stop to fix something outside of class she immediately stresses), but for now when I really need to start getting those MACH points, I really am ready for her to just go fast. I don't care so much about the Qs (they will come) but it's going to be the points that I think will get us. 

Now with Jari, I'm more about the speed and building drive/confidence since Kimma was missing that in her foundation work. Since we started doing sequences we've been doing a lot with tunnel sends and straight lines while still working some bits with crosses (front, rear, and blind) plus some of the new handling stuff. But even at 15 months old when some dogs are making their debuts, I'm still just hammering home the basics most classes. We're not even running him at full height yet. I'm not in any hurry, but I want him to "know" as much as possible before we even attempt full courses.


----------



## sassafras

Haha now that we're actually in a class I'm reading this thread more, and I love how I have no idea what anyone is talking about and I'm pretty much like... MY DOG WENT THROUGH THE TUNNEL YAY.


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> Haha now that we're actually in a class I'm reading this thread more, and I love how I have no idea what anyone is talking about and I'm pretty much like... MY DOG WENT THROUGH THE TUNNEL YAY.


I remember that! And 'My dog can go around a bucket!'

I still dont' know what people are talking about, about half the time. It's kinda fun, but I really love jargon.


----------



## Kathyy

Ginger had a great class last night except*. IF I remembered to cue 'contact' she hit the ground and tried to stick it. Sometimes her butt came up off the board but her front was PLANTED. We have been working this at home all week with just my table/ramp and running to it over a jump and she hasn't been very consistent so I was thrilled in class. The teeter and A frame were put higher and the dogwalk was at competition height and she wasn't bothered a bit. The instructor puppysits an enormous puppy who was penned at the bottom of the dog walk and Ginger was great about her.

Between turns on the contacts I worked turns around the tire as I could leave her leash on and she was doing great rears and fronts!

Before class I walked all over the field stopping if she put her head down and waiting for her to lift it and look at me. Then I told her she was a good girl, showed her a cookie and let her have it after I said OK. Expanded that over the hour to coming to side/close/front. 

*Tunnels you say? Ginger said they were creepy and probably ate little golden dogs. Getting out my tunnel this week for sure!

She has had some sort of epiphany this week. Twice she sat by the front door and waited without being asked to even when I was taking Max out but not her. She found a yummy bone on a walk, picked it up to show me then dropped it before I could say a thing. I got her a bitty backpack which she has been wearing on hikes, perhaps the extra 11 ounces means an important job or she is just getting that much more of a workout.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Right now I help out at a "fun" class for Agility. I try to pass on what I have learned competing with Remmy. Unfortunately when I first started with Remmy, there were no instructors in Agility around our area so he learned in a "fun" class. If he was not such a great little dog he would never have gotten as far as he has. Most of what he learned was from me watching videos and doing lots of reading. He does a running contact which has worked out good with him. He is great for sending and loves the Gamblers classes. At one of our trials he was one of the few that did the closing sequence. It has however caught up to me now that he is in Masters classes as my handling leaves a lot to be desired and he has gotten faster all the time. Consequently we end up with zoomies a lot of times as I think he gets frustrated at waiting for my signals.

With Lucy, I was lucky there was a good instructor available so she went through the foundation classes and does a good 2o2o on the contacts and has learnt from the start to follow my directions. I think a lot of people just want to have their dogs run around and go over obstacles and have no intention of ever competing so they consider the foundation classes too boring. I just think it is a shame if they do not put in the foundation if later on they decide to compete. I have seen so many dogs in the "fun" agility that would do great in competition but have learnt so many bad habits like leaping off the obstacles and they think because the dogs is going so fast that they are doing great.


----------



## CptJack

> I think a lot of people just want to have their dogs run around and go over obstacles and have no intention of ever competing so they consider the foundation classes too boring.


BINGO.

People drop the foundations class all. the. time. according to my instructor. They're looking for the cool factor of going over the obstacles and not getting to do that means they quit, in a huff. Foundations class toward the end we had one sessions on the outside agility field with all the equipment around and one man got TICKED and stomped off with his dog when the instructor told him that, no, he couldn't have his dog do the dog walk.


----------



## Laurelin

Of my foundation classes with both dogs only Summer and one other dog are still involved. By the end of 6 weeks we had lost half the class. People just don't expect agility to be much work at all, which is funny. 

I've done both 'for fun' and also competition foundations. I don't think 'for fun' is horrible like I used to but if you want to compete it's probably going to be really really hard without the right foundations. So if you want to compete make sure you go to a competition oriented school. I do think some of the 'for fun' people are not doing things safely or appropriately. 

I started with 'for fun' stuff so it can obviously end up getting people bit by the bug and all that. Just be careful. A lot of people don't know what they're doing. My first agility trainer had never titled a dog at all in it. But was teaching classes that were geared towards 'competition dogs'. Yeahhhh


----------



## CptJack

I never planned to compete and ended up with a competition oriented trainer. I'm not sure I'd WANT to compete without working with the people I do and being in those classes. Like if I just did it for fun, I'm pretty sure I'd have done one class, said I'd done it and moved on. Somehow presenting this to me as a complex challenge and puzzle made me like it. 

I will admit that if Thud weren't Thud and I intended to go on, I'd expect to be pretty bored through Foundations classes.


----------



## Laurelin

I have no idea what I wanted or planned when I got into our first agility class. It's been an off and on thing but now I'm just hooked. I want to compete and compete well. I can't imagine at this point not planning on agility with the next few dogs at least.


----------



## CptJack

I still don't think I'll ever be seriously competitive, but I'd like to enter some trials. I also can't imagine not doing agility with NextDog. Which means I pretty much just committed myself to a good decade or so.


----------



## Laurelin

I doubt I'll ever be one of those 'go to trials every weekend' type people. I don't have the money lol.

Plus some people are so competitive that they don't seem to have fun. But I'd like to do masters stuff and maybe even MACH nextdog....

But I don't care about nationals or anything like that.


----------



## CptJack

Right now my biggest thing is that ultimately there are only 4 levels of agility classes offered in driving distance, if you remove the 'for fun' place, which I do.

That means basically foundations, beginner (Where we are), intermediate, and weaves/advanced handling. I can probably cycle through those last three indefinitely and keep learning but it never really goes BEYOND. 

That said, there are also very few local trials, and while there are more in driving distance going out and spending every weekend away isn't going to happen, anyway. We don't have the time, and we do have kids and other dogs.


----------



## Laurelin

That is interesting. We don't really do 'levels' of classes. We just start and then people drop and classes disband and people get moved around. They advertise levels but don't really stick to it. The class I was in really was people just on the cusp of competing and so is this one but this one is more advanced by a bit. A lot more handling things. My trainer works very hard to make sure people have a place in a class, which I really like. 

The really competitive place here may only have a new class start every 2-4 years. Our place has people who are really serious down to people who never want to compete.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> That is interesting. We don't really do 'levels' of classes. We just start and then people drop and classes disband and people get moved around. They advertise levels but don't really stick to it. The class I was in really was people just on the cusp of competing and so is this one but this one is more advanced by a bit. A lot more handling things. My trainer works very hard to make sure people have a place in a class, which I really like.
> 
> The really competitive place here may only have a new class start every 2-4 years. Our place has people who are really serious down to people who never want to compete.


Ours is just strange. There are people already competing out of the intermediate class (first time through), but classes definitely start at concrete times. Foundations restarts every 3-4 months, with either beginner or agility being the class immediately after. So it'll be like:

Janurary: 
Foundations
Intermediate

April:
Foundations
Beginner

June: 
Foundations
Intermediate

And so on. People who take one Beginner class may pick up Intermediate the very next term, or the one after that, or six months down the road, depending on what they remember and where they are.

The advanced class is an invitation only thing that runs about once every 6 months- year.


----------



## Laurelin

It is always interesting to see how other people do things. We had a new person switch in to our classes starting next week and she is trialling already. Her dog finished the same titles as Summer last trial. My trainer basically does a private lesson with people like that to see where they'd fit in. And like even when I couldn't make the class that we'd fit in to I was put in a class, just a lower level one. I'm fine with that. 

We pretty much never have any breaks in agility. It's year around and there's 2-3 classes most nights and then some people who just do privates.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, ours runs 7 weeks on, and then either 3 or 4 off.

Private lessons are probably a thing that's going to happen with me after the end of the intermediate class. It's not much more expensive than the group classes - like 15.00/30 minutes, and with the focused attention we'd be getting a lot more of it than we would in a regular class, anyway. 

I *wish* I could find something that was more ongoing, but we just don't have it here. I keep eyeballing some places that aren't much further away but I really, really haven't liked the sound of most of them. I may need to do some checking in and emailing around in the fall.


----------



## Laurelin

We're starting to rent rings, which I'm sure will help. It's $25/hour and we're doing a few hours a few times a month split between 5 handlers and 7 dogs. 

I get withdrawals if we go too long in between. I just wish there were more options for air conditioned rings. There's not many here. And it's about to get HOT.

$15/30 mins is great! Our private lessons are around $40/hour so not too bad. We try to do those every now and then. Will probably break from them till it cools down though. Summer can't work a full hour in the heat. Well she can but she is sloooow at the end.

ETA: Have you gone to a trial and asked around about where people train? I know like 3 or 4 trainers now that don't have a website or anything. It's all word of mouth around here which SUCKS for new people but you might get good ideas you haven't heard about if you do some investigation.


----------



## SDRRanger

Our classes at our place start with a beginner agility and then seem to turn into just agility. Each session is 6 weeks and at the end of each session they tend to move people around as needed to put them with people/dogs of the same level. 

I'm not sure what I'll end up doing with Ranger. I used to show horses a lot so I'd love to trial him, but the thought of doing things in front of people as the only person in the ring...not sure if I'm brave enough. I remember all the mornings of not eating before going into the ring with the horses to try and calm my belly enough to last through it and I'm not sure if all this time out of the ring is going to have improved my anxiety or if I'll be puking beside my car and running to the lav before trying to get in...

They're going to be doing trials starting on Wednesdays and I'm going to see if they're like some help...give me a feel for trials before actually taking part with my dog.


----------



## Laurelin

SDRRanger said:


> Our classes at our place start with a beginner agility and then seem to turn into just agility. Each session is 6 weeks and at the end of each session they tend to move people around as needed to put them with people/dogs of the same level.
> 
> I'm not sure what I'll end up doing with Ranger. I used to show horses a lot so I'd love to trial him, but the thought of doing things in front of people as the only person in the ring...not sure if I'm brave enough. I remember all the mornings of not eating before going into the ring with the horses to try and calm my belly enough to last through it and I'm not sure if all this time out of the ring is going to have improved my anxiety or if I'll be puking beside my car and running to the lav before trying to get in...
> 
> They're going to be doing trials starting on Wednesdays and I'm going to see if they're like some help...give me a feel for trials before actually taking part with my dog.


I don't get nervous at all in agility. My trainer says she got nervous in horse showing but not dogs. To me it's just like another run. Summer stresses slightly but is gaining confidence the more we trial. She still is not as fast in trials as in class. But it's coming.

I think everyone has terrible trials so most people get it. My trainer was telling us about one of her first trials with her malamute (her first agility dog) and how she cried the whole way home. I've had a trial just like that too, lol. Then eventually you realize no one else cares about your runs looking silly. Everyones' runs look silly sometimes. Everyone's dog acts like a dog now and then. Even the masters level people can be made to look like a fool by their dog. I've seen dogs poop in the ring, bolt out, one dog chased birds for about 10 minutes in the ring before someone caught him. MY DOG jumped in the ring crew's lap and I got DQ'd. I've run the wrong course in a trial because I couldn't remember the course. I've seen people fall on their faces. I've seen dogs stop on the top of the A frame and refuse to come down. I mean... you name it and I've seen it. 

If you can volunteer that's a great start. You can even bring your dog to get him used to crating at a busy trial. Also if they have matches or fun runs definitely go!


----------



## Kathyy

I learned early on it isn't about a ribbon, it is about how we worked together. Many runs were not Qs but a complete success as we came off the field as a team. Max never ever knew I was disappointed in a run, he was always brilliant in my eyes. We went back to the set up and he got lots of cookies with me apologizing for the late cue, the floating arm, the sloppy turn as well as for the brilliant weaves, contacts and so on. I will get to add incorrect cue to that list with Ginger, she wants contact for a contact, hup for a hup, tunnel not teeter for tunnel and so on. I can see her turning around to find a tunnel if I tell her tunnel when I mean tire. 

At USDAA nationals where me and Max went as we qualified in team there were a lot of off courses on the steeplechase finals but the handlers adjusted so unless you knew the course you wouldn't have had a clue the team had DQ. I figure if you mess up then go on as smoothly as possible and remember to work on that issue in training, not the ring. In some classes one can go back and repeat the problem area, that is exactly what I do in USDAA Gamble classes. One fun rainy day Sassy got to attempt the A frame 3 times.

I get very nervous in the ring, to the point my first Q was in a jumpers course where I just counted out the jumps rather than telling Sassy to jumpjumpjump. I got more confident but went back to that strategy later on those nasty Master jumper courses where there are no tunnels to break up the monotony of jumps only.

I only have funds for a single weekly group class but people with problems they don't feel they can solve on their own do privates. It doesn't have to be with your instructor, around here there are loads of people with agility yards that do privates. Seminars are fun but costly. Hard to find ones for beginning dogs though.

How is foundations boring? I find it a lot more fun than training sitdownstaycomeheel. A for fun class could do that along with jumps and tunnels and at the end of a few sessions some dogs could be ready for NADAC jumpers and tunnelers, maybe Hoopers and USDAA jumpers! Handlers maybe, maybe not though.

We start at ground zero and move up changing days and class mates as we go if needed. It is frustrating to find a beginning class though, I had to wait a couple months for a class to start for Ginger. After a while we start competing and probably could go into a Masters class at that point. Masters is for advanced handling skills and the dog should know most of his/her job at this point. I don't think my school would let you into Masters unless you and the dog have been competing. A different class might be gently suggested if the team is getting frustrated and dog is disconnecting because he/she is overfaced but that rarely happens. Sometimes one team needs more time on a given exercise, next week a different team. It averages out just fine.

People here in southern California where there is incredible density of talented agility trainers will travel 80 miles one way for a class they like. Really. I hope they aren't doing that multiple times a week but one never knows.


----------



## sassafras

Yea, admittedly the foundations class is a little boring so far. Maybe I feel like that because I have a dog who has zero environmental concerns or worries about new objects. 

But, you know. It is what it is... foundations, not super happy crazy fun time.


----------



## Laurelin

I think foundations are less boring when you know what they are working towards and know how important they are for success down the line. But for someone who is completely new and has only seen agility on tv it can be wayyyyy different than what they are expecting when they sign up for an agility class. People like to do the 'sexy stuff'. They want to be running and jumping and not sending their dogs around cones or learning what clicker training is.

We're always way ahead in foundations because my dogs are already clicker savvy and know that objects are supposed to be jumped over, touched, or run around. But it's still good practice and most people that start have zero clicker training experience.


----------



## kadylady

I take all my classes at the club with a couple different instructors. Classes are held Tuesday and Thursday nights, 2 classes per night. They start with Intro, then go Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced. After advanced there are different options offered for people that are competing or have at least passed the advanced class. I've taken Agility Games (covers the rules and strategies to the different games classes), Competition Readiness, Contacts & Weaves, and my favorite which I will be doing a 4th round of, Skills Drills. I mostly choose my classes based on who is teaching because at this point I know who I work and learn best with and know that I will get great feedback regardless of the class focus. A perk of being a club member (in addition to discounted class prices) is access to open floor times. Someone posts to our list that they will open the building this day for this time period and anyone can show up to play. Sometimes there's only 2 people which = lots of floor time and sometimes there are a bunch which = less floor time. Last Sunday I went and there was only one other person so we got lots of floor time which was great.

SDRRanger - Helping at trials is great (and everyone will like you for it)!! I've done a lot of bar setting and I love it because you get a front row seat to all the action. I love bar setting the Masters level classes. I like to watch the handlers walk the course and see where the tricky spots are and try to get a seat bar setting on that side of the ring to see how they all handle the course up close.


----------



## Laurelin

I tend to bar set novice/open (or whatever the equivalent is). Most my friends are not in masters yet and also I'm always afraid I'll get to the master's ring and end up missing my run times in the other ring! They usually set up one ring with masters/tournaments and the other with starters/intermediate (novice/open or whatever lol)


----------



## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> I think foundations are less boring when you know what they are working towards and know how important they are for success down the line. But for someone who is completely new and has only seen agility on tv it can be wayyyyy different than what they are expecting when they sign up for an agility class. People like to do the 'sexy stuff'. They want to be running and jumping and not sending their dogs around cones or learning what clicker training is.
> 
> We're always way ahead in foundations because my dogs are already clicker savvy and know that objects are supposed to be jumped over, touched, or run around. But it's still good practice and most people that start have zero clicker training experience.


Right? We were talking about shaping and the instructor brought a box out and was talking about how to shape and click interacting with the box and I thought "Oh, boy. Squash is going to look brilliant for about two weeks."


----------



## CptJack

> How is foundations boring?


A lot of people already covered this, but it's basically the time spent covering training basics that my dogs already know, and *I* already know. Our Foundations class very, very much start at principals of training (clicker training, but with the word), watch me, and reenforcing sit, down, and recall. It's definitely more fun for me than a basic obedience class would be, but because it's not teaching me OR my dog anything new, it's not a ton of fun for me. Understanding where they're building to will make me work harder on some of the things (like send outs and targeting) and knowing that Thud's going to have challenges Kylie didn't will also keep me really engaged and make me work.

But Kylie in the first couple of weeks of class.... I could have slept through them, and so could she. She has zero issues with working around other dogs or people, and no fears of anything except being grabbed which wasn't happening. It's a good place to start, but it wasn't exactly a challenge for a while there, with her. 

I guess for me, the fun is in the working.

As an aside, I took Kylie to a public park with one of our jumps. We did some nothing more complicated than send from various angles and distances, and then work on me running with her and cutting out earlier. Was only about 15 minutes, but it was fun and she had a really good time. I need to do more of that kind of thing with her.

(Met a man coming in with a pit as we were going out (it was dead there, because of the time of day). I picked Kylie up and he sort of defensively told me that his dog was just a big, friendly baby. The dog jumped on me, I scritched his ears and told the guy I had no doubt but my dog was an intolerant little so and so and didn't want her traumatizing his dog. He laughed, but he was So relieved and grateful I wasn't afraid of his dog)


----------



## Laurelin

We had a GREAT ring rental. 

Highlights: 

- Summer WEAVED! Poles straight up and in the middle of a 8 obstacle sequence. I am so excited! I think... if I can keep her on my left and slow her down at the entrance (should not have a time issue at all) for now she may actually weave at this trial in two weeks. I'll keep working the right side at home but she's really coming along when she's on my left. The nice thing was this facility IS the trial facility and so maybe... just maybe she'll weave. Haha. If not we'll work them in the ring and then just concentrate on getting games Qs and finishing her TG2. 

- we still suck at distance but she did a couple nice sends. Work in progress. 

- I ran Mia in a couple short sequences.  So sweet and just made me beam from ear to ear to get to have fun with her. She's been having some serious issues with her breathing. We go to the university in a little over a week. She just really wanted to run so we did. Just nice and easy and no pressure at all. I love that dog so much. I'm very glad we got to run just a little.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Well we are all done until fall. Kimma isn't the best in the heat, and I think she's starting to stress in the ring a bit again so a few months off definitely cannot hurt. 

Here's all of our spring swag!









Records Kimma has set so far:
-First Finnish Spitz to get a Double Q at the Regular Masters level
-Most MACH points by a Finnish Spitz
-Most MACH points in a single run by a Finnish Spitz
-Finnish Spitz with the most legs towards their MXJ/MJB titles
-First female Finnish Spitz to be invited to the AKC Invitationals
-Shortest elapsed time of any Finnish Spitz in getting to the Masters level of competition and in earning their first MACH point


----------



## Kyllobernese

Other than the fun Agility class I help out in, our Agility instruction this year has been zero. They tried to start a Foundation class in March but not enough people and have not tried since. I am quite happy just doing the Obedience with Kris for now and I do run her over the A-frame, dog walk and teeter and the tunnels and she will send to the table from quite a distance and sit on it but have not really done much training with her yet, other than working on the 2o2o. I don't think it will hurt to leave her till she is a little older as she does get rather exhuberant right now, charges across the teeter and slams it down no matter how noisy it is which makes it a little harder to make her hold the 2o2o.
She is 17 months old today.


----------



## elrohwen

We *finally* finished the fenced jump chute area in our field to work on jumping (just in time for me to leave) and decided to test it out yesterday. If you remember, our first session involved him escaping under the fence and doing a joy run through the woods. lol Once we staked down the fence I took him out a few times just to work on focus - the first was a disaster, but he had just seen a bunny. The second time was really good, so we added in jumps yesterday. I'm using Susan Salo's system (from the DVDs) and Suzanne Clothier's. Both involve grids and I made the chute long and wide enough to do all sorts of combinations. 

So far so good! He was very focused and excited to jump, and didn't show any hesitation. In classes he was at 12", so I worked anywhere from 8" to a bit less than 16" and he did well on all of them except for one knocked bar (which he corrected on his next time through). The first exercise involves a pole or short jump to start, then a bounce to an actual jump (my jumps are automatically at 5" because of the design, so that worked well as the pole/low jump to set up for the real jump). We also did one that was 5 jumps in a line, bounces in between, with only the 3rd and 5th being set to jump height and the others left low as stride set ups. So far so good and we'll play around with those for now, changing the height of the jumps each time and just getting him comfortable with it all. Once he has the bounces I'll start playing with stride and distance.

Mostly I'm thrilled that he was able to work outdoors and focus the entire time off leash. I'm definitely going to use my little area to work on other things like heeling and if we finish with jump chute work we can make it more square to work on simple handling.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's a couple of Summers TDAA runs. I almost didn't post them because they were so bad.  She runs slow in trials compared to practice. I am hoping this next trial she goes faster since she's had some practice time in that facility. She was really fast this sunday. 

This is her first time running in this place. She wanted to see all the spots on the floor and also I'm pretty sure she thought the yellow cones were bowls. She had to go look inside them.






This one I call 'run around everything'






Compared to practice speed:






Also, does anyone have a veteran dog that you think jumps BETTER at a higher jump height? I really really think Summer does better at 8" vs 4".


----------



## LoMD13

Oh my goodness I really want to do that tdaa venue!!! Summer looks pretty good! I feel like Lola would shine in courses like that. 

Also, Summers Trial/class speed is pretty similar to Lo's. At first I thought she was lacking confidence (which didn't seem to fit her, she's an extremely confident dog), but when it started to bleed over into classes, I began to think she just figured out that trial runs got no immediate rewards. Since I started tapping into her toy drive, I can get one CRAZY fast run in a class, but after that it's no hum why did I ever even want that toy? Consistency eludes us still! 

We're still in the midst of taking a few weeks off from a hurt (sprained?) leg. Going to see what the vet says this week, and hoping to go back next week with lowered jump heights.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm not sure if it's like the sights/sounds of the trial or if it's stress? She doesn't SEEM stressed. She is very fast for her size and age at practices and regularly runs faster than the other dogs in class. Every time we'd run near the fence (where people were sitting on the other side, she'd start to try to ham it up for them. I also forgot to bring ANY good treats at that trial. But at practice she will work and work hard for no reward. She just loves running. 

At trials she is consistent in that she lopes everything the whole time. Pretty much any venue except the one time we did a fun run at 'home turf'. Then she flew. And she is consistently fast in class. She never half does class at all. But you can tell a huge difference in trial vs class speed and extension. Her tail gives her away- she carries it up unless she's really running. And in trials the tail is always up.

She was faster on Sunday than on saturday at that trial. Of course I only caught her first two runs on Saturday on film. She was definitely faster on Sunday. But not as fast as this Sunday.

I do think the running around the obstacles was primarily a matter of size. She had never seen the teacup version of anything before and the tunnels and contacts are all smaller and narrower. The jumps are about half the width too.

TDAA was awesome. I highly recommend it for any of the little dog folks. And especially the little ancient dog folks like me. Super nice people and really just great for the little dogs.

We trial again there in 2 weeks. So we will see if she speeds up now that this will be her third time running in that building.


----------



## Laurelin

And watching that again I said the wrong word for every contact obstacle. LOL

A frame =/= walk it


----------



## LoMD13

Unfortunately it looks like TDAA isn't really in the northeast yet, so we'll have to keep chugging away at USDAA!


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Also, does anyone have a veteran dog that you think jumps BETTER at a higher jump height? I really really think Summer does better at 8" vs 4".


I don't have a veteran dog but Zoey definitely jumps better at 20" vs 16". She measured into the 16" category for CPE but measured in 20" for AKC so I started jumping her 20" all around and it made a huge difference. She measures 19.5 so jumping 16 was nothing for her and that's about what she put into it. 20 still isn't that much for her but there is a noticeable difference in her jumping effort at 20".


----------



## Laurelin

In practices Summer jumps 8" and in USDAA she does too. I actually think in some venues once a veteran hits double digit veteran status you cannot jump them at their normal height anymore? She really half-asses at 4" though.


----------



## SDRRanger

Ranger is 24" at the withers and when we started the jumps were about 8"...he didn't even pay attention and we had a lot of kicked rails. They bumped him up to 16" and he thinks a lot more of where his feet are now. We only have maybe one rail a class now instead of one per sequence.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> In practices Summer jumps 8" and in USDAA she does too. I actually think in some venues once a veteran hits double digit veteran status you cannot jump them at their normal height anymore? She really half-asses at 4" though.


I don't know much about veteran rules or the different organizations yet but one of my instructors was having trouble with her Yorkie going between 4" and 8" in different organizations. We were talking about it and when you think about it a 4" difference isn't that much to us or even to my larger dogs, but to a dog that size its probably a significant difference.


----------



## MrsBoats

> Also, does anyone have a veteran dog that you think jumps BETTER at a higher jump height? I really really think Summer does better at 8" vs 4".


O isn't a veteran...but he jumps much better at 24" than he does at 20". I had planned to do preferred with him because he's on the short side for a male rottie. But he soars over 24" jumps instead of jumping flat like he does at 20". Lars didn't change anything in his jumping style with 24" versus 20"....he would just hit 24" agility jumps and plow through them instead of making an effort to get himself over them. :/


----------



## Laurelin

I wonder if they'd let me run Summer in 8" in TDAA? I'm going to look at the rules. 

Ok so... how many runs do we sign up for next trial? It's in 2 weeks. I want at least all 4 games. The standards just depend on the weaves, which she WAS doing on sunday in the building where the trial was held. BUT I'm not sure.... do I just do a couple standards?

The group package for the 9 runs total all 3 days is cheaper than buying 7 runs separately. So do I just buy all 9 then scratch if the weaves just aren't happening? I'd at least like to try 2 standard runs. And I'll be there all day anyways since games are first and last thing to run....

So I'm leaning towards 9 runs. Is that crazy considering I doubt we get the weaves on the standards?


----------



## CptJack

Oh go and try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? And if all 9 are cheaper it's not like you're out any money, anyway.

In other news:

I've been carting around a couple of jumps and tunnel with us to various remote fields, nearly abandoned parks and the like to practice in different locations - with both Kylie and Thud, but mostly Kylie since Thud is still learning to go through the tunnel and get out. This evening we were at this little field set back 100 yards from a bike trail, with woods on 2 sides and a fence on the third (fourth was the bike trail). It was PERFECT.

Until a group of bikers realized what we were doing and every other biker that went past stopped to watch us. They applauded when we quit, and I've never been more confused in my LIFE.


----------



## SDRRanger

Ranger had a great lesson today at agility. 

We did some tire-sharp turn tunnel - straight jump; jump-tunnel-pinwheel (three jumps at west/north/east) and Aframe-jump. (building up to the full sequences). Ranger paid more attention to where he went (as opposed to looking at my hands) and did really well on the weird angle from one of the jumps to the tunnel. He's still a great deal faster than me, but he actually collected back onto the correct side after the tunnel to move forward to the jump with me  Super proud mum. 

The schnauzer was there today and he still has it in for Ranger. He didn't bolt over to us at all, but I kept Ranger farther away from him and at one point in a settle on one side of a tunnel so he couldn't see him at all. 

We also had them walked through the weave poles today (prior to this all we'd done was have them walk through a very open set of six). It was way over Ranger's head and he wasn't sure at all what we were after, but he went through them and was happy on the other side. I've always felt that the weaves will be tricky for him (since he seems to be two dogs - a front half and a back half) but I'll just keep working on his leg awareness stuff at home and hope it comes together. 

Also let my instructor know that I would like to volunteer for their trials for whatever they need. Said they're always looking for people and it would be good for me too.


----------



## CptJack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8W33yOFhn8

I'm just going to leave this here.


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8W33yOFhn8
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.


well....

....hmmm


----------



## sassafras

Yea and I'm all WE LEARNED HOW TO DO A POST TURN TONIGHT.


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> Yea and I'm all WE LEARNED HOW TO DO A POST TURN TONIGHT.


SHARE! What's a post turn?


----------



## sassafras

It's just a turn of direction where the dog stays on the same side they started on. We practiced doing a 180 degree turn, just walking up to a cone (sometimes dog on left, sometimes dog on right) and having our dog go around the other side of it as we turned around. 

Our homework is to try to practice enough to put it to a cue, and if they grok that to gradually increase the distance away from the cone we are when we cue the turn.

WE'RE GOING CRAZY OVER HERE.


----------



## Kathyy

Me who learned this stuff in the gutter was never good at post turns with Max. First turn we learned with Ginger. Keeping it tight means big dogs are on the correct lead. Probably a real good thing to know how to do with a dog that would be going 10' in the wrong direction before he could switch leads if he landed on the wrong lead. Beats me how you tell what lead the dog should be on, just practice the turn so he figures it out for himself as far as I know.

Ginger's teacher teaches contacts by sitting at the bottom of the obstacle with cookies at the 2 on 2 off spot to stop the dog in the right place. She tells us the skinny Rhodesian RB puppy and the sweet rough Collie are scary to watch come at her. Bet she would modify her technique with Squash! He reminds me of a wonderful American Bulldog that competed around here years ago. Awesome to watch, terrifying to run.

Awesome watching that video, they made it look so easy. Me and Max could do bits of stuff like that. On good days.


----------



## sassafras

This is how we are practicing. To start, we were told to go right up to the cone, actually touching it, mark when they are opposite the cone from you and reward when they complete the turn (watching this I realized I'm mostly rewarding off camera, I should be doing it sooner I think). 






And this is getting a little farther away. 







Normally I work off leash in the backyard but apparently there was a squirrel convention in the alley this morning.


----------



## SDRRanger

they've probably been planning it for months and then your agility practice came along....I'm sure they hate when an area is double booked.


----------



## sassafras

SDRRanger said:


> they've probably been planning it for months and then your agility practice came along....I'm sure they hate when an area is double booked.


Well, they should have made sure the venue got their deposit!


----------



## MrsBoats

Mr. O had a good weekend this past weekend in USDAA. He Q'ed in P1 Jumpers, P1 Standard, and P1 Gamblers!  Go O!!!! 


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










The AKC trial the weekend before wasn't as fruitful in the Q department...but we had some nice pieces in all of our runs.  The photographer got some good shots of the Kidd-O in action.


----------



## SDRRanger

beautiful photos


----------



## CptJack

I chickened out. Of course I chickened out.

Unless the agility instructor tells me no (and she might), Bug is going to foundations instead of Thud. 

He's just... not there, yet. Neither am I, with him. He also started limping off and on this evening so we're seeing the vet about that tomorrow. (Which was what prompted this, and somehow got left out of my post. /eyeroll. I'm asleep)

I'll let you guys know what she's got to say about it, but I am really hoping for a yes.

*ETA* So, Thud saw the vet. Looks like it's nothing more complicated than a muscle strain and he should be fine. Low exercise for a week, no jumping, and reassess.

I'm probably still going to hold off, but my instructor legitimately does not care which dog I show up with. Even said she'd find out when we got there and it would be a fun surprise. Probably going to be Bug, but honestly I think I'll likely find out when I'm in the car with them. I am all OVER the place with this. The only thing I know for sure is I'm not taking Jack or Frost. Because Jack and Frost just are not into this whole learning thing.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Aright, so I'm a few weeks into my intro agility classes with Kairi. There are like 3 of us in the class, so not a big class thankfully. Kairi is doing great with her foundation work, and great with her introduction to the low laying obstacles. When any of her classmate dogs are running past her, she turns into a reactive, "want to chase/play" nut. When it's her turn to do something, or demo something, she's an absolute pro. She has great focus (for a reactive puppy), drive and energy for this stuff. I'm just afraid her reactivity is gonna be too much. Somebody please tell me I can still do this with an excited reactive dog (we are working on it constantly).

I have the option of private classes next time, of course for a slightly higher fee. Think I should stick it out in group classes (working on agility and reactivity simultaneously) or invest in the private classes right away? I had planned on private classes down the road, but her nutso behavior has me wondering if sooner isn't better.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2MBo6GX8ro

Everyone needs to watch this.

ForTheLoveOfDogs - I don't have an answer to this one, but if you're taking a class with only 2 other dogs, I'm not sure there's a better opportunity to work on the reactiveness with her. I would probably stick it out, were it me. Unless she's totally disrupting class or interfering with the other student's ability to work or isn't safe, of course, but it doesn't sound like that's what's going on. And it's not like she isn't going to need to deal with other dogs in trial settings, anyway. May as well learn to focus and work through it together now, with a couple of other dogs and foundations, than more other dogs AND more difficult skills.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Aright, so I'm a few weeks into my intro agility classes with Kairi. There are like 3 of us in the class, so not a big class thankfully. Kairi is doing great with her foundation work, and great with her introduction to the low laying obstacles. When any of her classmate dogs are running past her, she turns into a reactive, "want to chase/play" nut. When it's her turn to do something, or demo something, she's an absolute pro. She has great focus (for a reactive puppy), drive and energy for this stuff. I'm just afraid her reactivity is gonna be too much. Somebody please tell me I can still do this with an excited reactive dog (we are working on it constantly).
> 
> I have the option of private classes next time, of course for a slightly higher fee. Think I should stick it out in group classes (working on agility and reactivity simultaneously) or invest in the private classes right away? I had planned on private classes down the road, but her nutso behavior has me wondering if sooner isn't better.


My good friend who I take a lot of classes together with has a reactive Aussie that started very similar to how you are describing. When I first met her the dog would come into the building and just immediately start barking and would bark/lunge at dogs that got too close. When she was working if she lost focus with her handler she would charge the fencing if other dogs were too close. But when she was focused she was amazing. My friend has been doing agility classes with her for going on 2 years this fall and started trialing with her at the end of last year, her dog has made so much progress since I first met her almost 2 years ago. She had to put in a lot of extra work and effort with her but it is totally paying off. People at our club and in the classes understand that her dog is reactive so they give her the space she needs, during classes when one dog is working on the floor the others are almost always crated so that helps. And my friend has learned that she needs to handle her dog 2 steps ahead of her in order to keep that focus. As long as she can keep the dog's focus they do a really great job together. I have also helped her work on the reactivity with my dogs (who are very not reactive). We have worked on leash walking them together, last weekend we were at the club and I was playing with Zoey as close to the fence as possible while her dog was running a course and she only once looked our direction but chose not to react. She has stuck to mostly CPE trials so far as they allow the gates to be closed upon request and that just gives her an added peace of mind. And they have done well at the trials! 

I can see the class issue 2 ways. For the dog I would say group classes might be better because you do have to work on that reactivity, it won't go away by avoiding other dogs. On the other hand, for you as a newbie handler (assuming you are a newbie handler) private classes would probably be beneficial because you can work on learning the handling without the reactivity factor. But again, it's something that has to be worked on at some point if your intent is to compete at some point and the sooner the better. Ideally maybe a mix of private and group classes if possible? But a class with only 2 other dogs is like perfect! Distraction but in small amounts. Couple thoughts, can you work on something with her while the other dogs are working to keep her focus on you? My friend is always doing something to keep her dogs focus, even just simple sit-down-sit-stand-down type drills. Other option, can she be crated while other dogs are working. Most of our classes the not working dogs are crated while the others work (unless we are all doing some type of drills at the same time). When my friend's dog is crated in her covered crate she stays quiet and way less stressed. Plus it's really good practice for the dogs to learn to settle in the crate and wait their turn.

So I guess the point of my rambley post was it is totally possible to do this with your reactive dog. But it is extra work. Honestly, my friend has to put in a lot more work with her reactive dog than I do with my non-reactive dog. And sometimes, as a newbie handler, it does make it that much harder for her to learn the handling. But she's doing it, both her and the dog are loving it and they are both making so many strides! It's so awesome to see them overcome the challenges together.


----------



## MrsBoats

This is Tillie...who belongs to my close friend who we do agility with. She was a reactive dog (and a pit bull to boot) and my friend never thought she would be able to compete in agility in AKC or USDAA. Tillie is now in AKC Excellent classes and P2 in USDAA. Tillie doesn't have issues with larger dogs...but she took offense to small dogs and small dogs who seemed to be in her space, playing, or "out of control" in Tillie's mind. Through a ton of work and getting Tillie out and about around in the agility scene...she has learned what is correct and acceptable behavior around small dogs no matter what they are doing or where they are. My friend still manages her in tight quarters near the chute to go into the ring...but it's nothing like what she had to do when she was starting out. 

So, agility with a reactive dog can be done. It is a lot of work to manage behavior and watch everything that is going around you. A lot of people in agility who do not have reactive dogs sometimes aren't watching their dogs...so you have to be extra aware of what and who is around you. Tillie is almost 4 years old now and my friend started her in agility around a year and a half or so. It's been this past year where we've seen Tillie really relax in a trial setting and not mind who and what is around her. It does take time, work, and dedication...but you can get your dog to where you can compete someday.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I think it might be better to stick it out too. She is actually getting a little better each week, but I didn't want to push something if it wasn't the right way to go about things, ya know? The other dogs in the class are non-reactive and don't seem to be upset about her barking when they go through a tunnel or anything. She doesn't care what the other dogs are doing unless we are waiting for our "turn". During our turn, she is fine. I do spend a lot of time doing random downs/sit/waits, and practicing the things we just learned during the down time. 

The good news is her reactivity is with motion (herding breed, yeah..) and excitement, not aggression. She adores other dogs to a fault. She is also still very much a pup, so I'm hoping with training, it will become manageable. I'm very much a management freak as it is, so I'm not worried about putting extra work into it. It's my entire life with this dog. 

Thank you so much for the encouraging stories/words CptJack, kadylady and MrsBoats. Kairi and I are having so much fun. I would really like to trial someday, so knowing other reactive dogs have made it eases my fears a little. She has such a good drive, lots of speed, and is so fearless. I'd hate to put all that to waste!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Kimma is reactive and fearful. She's SO much better now than she used to be, but I still have to manage her every move at trials. For us, the "look at that" game was key. We would start at a distance and she would get rewarded for looking at the trigger (a dog running the course). We moved closer and closer with each successful session. It took months but it was worth it. Only once she could get really close to the trigger via LAT did I ask for her eye contact. She's now pretty much just fine as long as another dog doesn't invade her space. But a simple, "Excuse me, my dog is reactive, could you move your dog please?" is all I need to say. We are competing at the Masters level in AKC currently.


----------



## Laurelin

So we've had ups and downs recently. Last week we just sucked up the practice. I think it was combo of heat and also humidity. All the dogs were pretty off. 

We have a trial this weekend and one of my classmates is the judge. LOL I better not suck it up in front of her. HA 

Summer has been weaving awesome at home so maybe....


----------



## CptJack

Kylie's NADAC registration showed up in the mail today and gave me a little thrill.

It also reminded me that we've got that first show 'n' go in, um, 11 days. Not sure why I'm so nervous about that one; I don't have any real intention of putting her on the field! Guess I keep thinking that there's no real reason NOT to get out there for at least one or two runs and seeing what she can do with it. Skipping the weaves and having me assist on the teeter shouldn't be any particularly big deal given the nature of the thing. 

Guess we'll see when we get there. More and more I kind of want to do it, just to see how she reacts. I also just want a chance to scope it out and see how things run, but that's all for me.

IN RELATED NEWS:

OH DEAR GOD CAN CLASSES START AGAIN? SHE IS MAKING ME INSANE!


----------



## CptJack

And looks like there are actually *two* other classes being taught now - Contacts and Weaves. They're being taught back to back on a day I can't make it this go around (I also can't afford to do 4 classes and drive that distance twice a week), but I guess now I know where I'm going after Intermediate. Likely back to beginner and onto private lessons since I don't know how often these other classes are taught, but I'll be keeping an eye open for them, at least.

Why can't I do everything at once? Why?

And what happened to my 'meh, whatever' attitude about agility?


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> Why can't I do everything at once? Why?
> 
> And what happened to my 'meh, whatever' attitude about agility?


that is exactly how I feel.


----------



## SDRRanger

Last night's agility was probably his worst, but also our best if that's possible. When we were warming up he was bouncy and distracted trying to zoom off on the end of his leash a few times before settling in. We started with them going over a cavaletti set which Ranger took in bounding leaps (instead of trotting over nicely) and when we moved to the weaves he had literally no idea what was being asked (handlers walking on one side while the instructor loosely held the lead and just prevented them from making mistakes. He didn't get it at all. 

Then they put up the gates to have the dogs go through on their own and we took it very slowly with me on one side to guide him and the instructor on the other. The other dogs got it pretty quick and even did a little flying changes to add speed, but we worked on walking through v.e.r.y slowly and not trying to catapult over them (which he did once jumping the WHOLE setup from right to left. We did end on an easy slow walk through with him going where he was supposed to. Not sure if that's the right setup for him to learn weaves so I might look at teaching him a different way. 

Next we did the A-frame with click on contact and feed in box at bottom. The dogs are supposed to be free a few strides beforehand, but that involved Ranger pretty much soaring over the top, missing the contact entirely and landing in the box. We managed a good turn by gently holding him until his feet were on the bottom of the frame and then letting go while calmly walking it. 

We then built up to a jump - spread - jump - tire - tunnel. The jumps were high enough that he couldn't just blast through the whole thing and he'd have to use his brain. He tried once and didn't shorten his stride enough for the spread and ducked out; before doing a little zoom followed by a fake spook at equipment followed by sniffing some grass and then spooking again. It reminded me of the horses when we'd train and they'd get frustrated at not being able to figure out what they needed to do. 

When I tried to put him back into place he didn't want to sit and gummed my hands so I asked for a sit, treated, and took a minute to pat him. When he was settled we worked through the sequence very slowly and he got it! He even ran ahead of me to dive into the tunnel!

Final exercise was the dog walk with one of the instructors at the bottom with target and treats. I feel like I need to buy her a bottle of wine because watching Ranger gallop up and over to slide down the end into a stop must be pretty intimidating (the look on her face was one of apprehension lol). Most of the dogs were freely started a few strides away, but Ranger was walked to the bottom and held until there was no pressure from him on the collar and then calmly released...this slowed him down so he was only twice as fast as every other dog, and to give him credit he stopped at the bottom each time.

After class I asked for some exercises we could do at home to work on "Ranger being, well, Ranger". This week we're working on a jump with his food bowl on the other side. When he looks forward he is to be released from him wait. As this gets better I'm to start being in different positions (farther away/in front/in back/etc) as he tends to not look where he's going and give the jr instructor a heart attack.


----------



## LoMD13

]So Lola went back to agility last night after a few weeks off. She had one run that was fantastic (Just some obstacle discrimination problems), but overall fast and focused which have been our major issues. Our second run, which is usually the downfall as far as motivational issues was pretty good too! SHE was perfect, still fast and peppy and did much better with object discrimination. Me on the other hand had some issues getting lost- it was a very similar course to the first one and the end of the night in my defense! Of course, the one I got on tape was the one where I get lost. Still, I'm over the moon happy with her energy here. 

I'm also glad I taped this because I can see that we need to work a lot more on tunnels, I saw some hesitation going into that first one.


----------



## Kathyy

Lola looks great!

We had another amazing class last night. I was exhausted by the end, not because I was treating her to keep her relaxed around other dogs, because I was treating her and running her doing agility stuff. 

Off times we were working contact behavior and tunnels and turns over single jumps, on times we got to do a tire>chute>tunnel>3 jumps>table sequence, practice teeter and A frame and work weaves. 

First time ever doing a chute in a sequence and only second time seeing the chute. She was a bit worried about it but pushed through and sent to the tunnel enough so I could run to the jumps and she nailed the table! 

I had to RUN the weaves with them ~3" off center and we did the full 12 poles! Run and do the Xena warrior princess trill. I was trying to be quiet but unfortunately she wants some noise. At least this time I am running a girly dog, not Max with the XWP trill. Trilling 12 poles, no trilling that #8 was popped because she looked at me every time and I was moving forward. Darn, I could use a breath now and then running a course!

Last we did contacts with the instructor. I was supposed to cue her to stick the contact then use a release word. Not so good as I was so happy about the contact nailing I never did my cues out correctly. We did a jump facing away from the A frame then front crossed to pull the dog to the frame. Ginger thought that was really dumb, get to the A frame! I would set her between the frame and the jump facing the jump but when I moved to my spot she was facing the frame every time! The exciting part was even though she clearly wanted that contact bad she did come and do the jump nicely every time.

And the teeter! She was running to the end and riding it 2' down on her own. Awesome. Really scary thinking that my little dog could ride a teeter 4' down from the end but maybe she can. I taught Max to ride it down from close to the pivot as he never could figure out how to crouch and bang.

She is all skittery about putting on her harness so at home this week I was working to get her to drive to it by clicking and treating and the treat was tossed rather than fed to her. Good thing because I had to take it off in class and she was actually targeting it before she did sequences rather than treating it like the evil strangler. Surprised that something I'd been having trouble with since the day she arrived resolved so quickly. I'd still rather use the slip lead as it is easier to get on and off but she is [or was?] far more reactive on it than the harness so I probably ought to use the harness a while longer.


----------



## CptJack

We practiced/played on our own. 

This: 









was followed by this:









which was immediately followed by:









It was hot, and she had priorities, okay? And agility for more than 10 minutes wasn't on the list.


----------



## LoMD13

Ha yeah I haven't fully decided if we're just going to do drop ins this summer or just go straight through. She doesn't love the heat, but so far we haven't had any real heat. I'm thinking it might be a pretty cool summer so we'll just keep going as long as she's happy and peppy. We're finally getting consistently happy and peppy, so I hate to break now.


----------



## CptJack

I'm starting to think I made a mistake in signing up for this set of classes. I'm hoping that them starting an hour later (nearly 8 p.m) will help keep things bearable, since I am already committed. Definitely doing ice and cooling mat and so forth, though, because it's hot and its' HUMID.


----------



## Laurelin

Woohoo Lola!  She looks fantastic!

We had a.... fun evening of trialing today. XD 

Two E's first of all. One was a SPECTACULAR E. Old Dog be crazy. The photographer was cracking up afterwards and I went over and looked at the photos and I was dying. There's some winners there and I so have to buy them. It was probably one of our ugliest runs and also one of our funniest and most fun. She also did her weaves GREAT in that run! First time she's done her weaves in a trial setting!

Then we did a third add on and she Q'd in Intermediate Standard! First Q in a class with weaves! I handled it weird. I decided even though it would be easier to handle on the right I wanted to do weaves on the left hand since she's still stronger that way. So we did. Then she weaved great and FAST and I was shocked and forgot to do my cross to get back on the right side. And... she was going so I had to run everything on the wrong side of the obstacles. I ran the long way around the rest of the course. But we Q'd! And everyone cheered.


----------



## SDRRanger

Good job Laurelin and Summer! Weaves are something that I think is going to cause A LOT of issues and we'll just have to keep plugging away at until it clicks.


----------



## Laurelin

We got 3 more Qs today- one more standard and 2 games Qs so we moved up to games 3.


----------



## LoMD13

Summer is tearing it up!! So awesome, congratulations, especially on those weaves!


----------



## Laurelin

End results:


summwers by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

Two Games 2 Qs, which got her her title. 
Two Intermediate Standard Qs
Two Games 3 Qs 

I'm really really happy. We didn't quite have the Q rate we did last time but she still did fantastic. 

Intermediate standard requires weaves and you have to get them right the first time, which was our problem with standard Qs overall. Pretty much every one today we had one fault because she would pop out then I'd start her over in the weaves. BUT she is weaving! With some work on weaves in a sequence, we will get it. when she gets it they are nice independent weaves. 

The games 3 Qs were both first places in full classes! The first was a distance challenge, which I was shocked she did! But she did! She was only one of 2 dogs to Q in that one. 

Overall really happy and we've got some good stuff going on. She's a great dog.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Laurelin and Summer!! Sounds like a really great weekend for you both!


----------



## GrinningDog

Really loving our new instructor at this south FL agility place. She sets much trickier sequences/courses than our past instructors, and since she has lots of experience (including international), we're learning a TON. 

Unfortunately (in regards to agility), I've begun my graduate program 8-5 every day, studying on evening and weekends. I'm crazybusy, exhausted, and I'm not sure I'll be able to continue agility after this summer, when I'm told the program's workload increases even more. Gypsy and I may have to take a break until after I graduate. We'll see.


----------



## Greater Swiss

Rather than start a new thread, I figured I'd tag onto this one....got a question for you agility folks...

I'm pretty excited, I finally found a class that I'm not going to miss half of because of work, its a beginners agility class starting in August. 

So, first class, what do I expect, what do I bring? Will I be working with Caeda a great deal, or is it going to be like Schutzhund where your dog is "put away" for most of the time. I'm sure it varies a bit by club, but I'm wondering in general what experiences have been like. What is the general ettequette? I'm guessing a prong or e collar will probably get my butt kicked....so flat collar I assume.....any general length for a leash that you've all found the most useful? Any commands that would be helpful to work on before then?


----------



## CptJack

Greater Swiss said:


> Rather than start a new thread, I figured I'd tag onto this one....got a question for you agility folks...
> 
> I'm pretty excited, I finally found a class that I'm not going to miss half of because of work, its a beginners agility class starting in August.
> 
> So, first class, what do I expect, what do I bring? Will I be working with Caeda a great deal, or is it going to be like Schutzhund where your dog is "put away" for most of the time. I'm sure it varies a bit by club, but I'm wondering in general what experiences have been like. What is the general ettequette? I'm guessing a prong or e collar will probably get my butt kicked....so flat collar I assume.....any general length for a leash that you've all found the most useful? Any commands that would be helpful to work on before then?



6 foot leash, flat collar, treats and you should be good. Some places will want your dog crated when its not their turn - mine doesn't (the only dogs in crates are the ones waiting for the NEXT class) and mine doesn't use clickers but DOES use marker words. I've never been to an agility class where you weren't working with your dog a ton and in foundations class there is pretty much no away - there's just working actively or waiting in line. The only commands she NEEDS to know are down, sit, and the ability to recall. There are some directional things you might want to work on which is basically this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-tzAkMZD8c

Otherwise, I can't think of much. Etiquette is going to vary by club and trainer. Basic stuff like don't let your dog be a pest to other dogs, wait your turn, give people who need it space, and from what I've seen 'don't touch other people's dogs', but it's all REALLY basic.

*ETA:* Oh, and don't stress if she's not good on leash. It's really NOT required.


----------



## elrohwen

I'm sure it differs by place and instructor, but here's what worked for my first class. We did definitely work the dogs on basic things to see where they were and get them started. It was all very quick, each dog might do something for 1 min, like learn that food appears on targets, and then it would be the next dog's turn. Or we there would be little stations that the instructor would explain and then we would cycle through, like get your dog to stand on this board, target something, and wrap around this pole - all quick easy little exercises. IME, the more beginner the class, the more you will be working with your dog. It's at the advanced levels where all dogs get put away while one runs a full course and gets instruction; in the beginning there are lots of super short exercises and before you know it it's your turn again.

I think a 6ft is probably fine to start, because you will probably have them on leash for the foundation type stuff. Once they are off leash I prefer a 4ft lead because the dog is only on it while you're standing around and doesn't need 6ft of lead to work with. Definitely a flat collar, martingale, or limited slip. You could probably enter the building with a prong, but you certainly couldn't use it for class, and no e-collar either. Most agility trainers are very positive, and the dogs will be off leash so prongs don't provide any benefit (plus you're often holding their collar and getting them to lean into, like restrained recalls, so it needs to be comfortable).

A leash, collar, and treats is really all you need. Most places don't expect much for new dogs - if she has a stay/wait (only needs to be short) and a sit she's probably ahead of the curve. Many people start agility with little obedience (either the dog is young, or they've done a few pet obedience classes and decided to try agility) so you won't have any issues there. No need to practice anything.

ETA: If she will work for a toy, bring it. Toys are easier to use once the dog actually has some obstacle skills, but some trainers encourage you to use and build toy drive from the beginning. My classes have all been food based, but were just starting to encourage toys for the dogs who were toy driven as we started to do more sequences.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah. Once we moved to working off leash for more than just recalling, I switched to a martingale collar/leash (one piece) for Kylie and bought a quick release collar/leash for Thud and a tuggy snap leash for Bug, because she can't use a collar and is on a harness. They're useful for all kinds of things, but at the start - don't spend money unless you want to. A regular old buckle collar and leash of any sort will get the job done. 

Also, yes: Targeting, get out/directions, recalls with distractions, and some limited obstacle introduction was pretty much what we did in Foundations. That IS going to vary by class, though.

Fast downs. We worked on those for the table. We also did 'watch me' and focus stuff.


----------



## Laurelin

Leash, collar (flat ONLY or a harness), treats, toys, crate, water, water bowl.... That's about it. I bring cooling gear and a fan and a variety of treats. I also try to bring a clicker. If I forget it though there's usually someone that has one.

Depending on the club and venue a training collar of any kind will actually get you kicked out of a trial or venue. So yeah definitely leave any e-collars, prongs or chokers at home. Many venues make you run the dog without even a flat collar on. 

As for what we did, our first day was very basic. We spent about half of it just going over facility rules about picking up after the dogs, how to use the fields and rules like that, where the bathroom is, what kind of treats to bring- soft not crumbly and high value. We did a lot of 'this is clicker training' and 'this is shaping, this is luring' etc. WE only saw tunnels and jumps (and mostly just jump stands with no bar) and wobble boards for the first session set. It may be slow compared to what you expect but a lot of people come to agility with ZERO dog training skills or savvy so they try to go from ground 0 up. We taught targeting and started getting dogs used to the idea of 'here is an object, interact with it'. The instructor did some exercises that allowed her to gauge how far the dogs were along on sit and stay and recall. We did a lot of drive building and recall games. Sending around cones. That kind of thing.


----------



## Laurelin

My facility requires dogs to be crated between turns. I know the other big school here does too. It is a safety thing. 

But my trainer actually has crates set up around the facility so there's plenty for all the dogs without bringing your own.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> My facility requires dogs to be crated between turns. I know the other big school here does too. It is a safety thing.
> 
> But my trainer actually has crates set up around the facility so there's plenty for all the dogs without bringing your own.


Our dogs have to be leashed between turns. The only dogs in crates are either dogs boarding at the facility (in another room), or dogs waiting for the next class with the same owner. I kind of prefer it that way, to be honest. Not sure how much point there is in getting dogs in and out of crates that consistently. We're all doing the same thing at once (well in a row, moving together from task to task, not multiple people working at once at different things), moving around the barn together and there's more than enough room to spread out and not get in anyone's face even when we're in line. Probably makes things easier for reactive dogs - and I'm sure the instructor wouldn't mind? But literally, with 5 dogs even running full courses you're waiting MAYBE five minutes and that would be okay, but a lot of the time we're not doing full courses. You're waiting while 4-5-6 (or 2-3 some classes) other people run through the tunnel or do two jumps, so it'd be in an out every thirty seconds. 

I'm sure it WORKS and it probably is safer, but man that seems like a lot of effort repeating frequently.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> My facility requires dogs to be crated between turns. I know the other big school here does too. It is a safety thing.
> 
> But my trainer actually has crates set up around the facility so there's plenty for all the dogs without bringing your own.


Yeah, my facility didn't require crating, though most people in the more advanced classes do crate their dogs since they're waiting for longer periods. There were also two ring areas, a main part and a smaller part, so dogs could be easily separated during runs without necessarily needing a crate. They did provide plenty of crates for people to use and nobody seemed to bring their own.

As you know, I had an issue with that, since my dog is very distracted by other dogs, and we also had some incidents with mildly dog aggressive dogs running up to the dogs waiting on leash (no matter how far away I kept Watson, or how well I hid him, even taking him out of the arena doors, they still tried to track him down). I do see why many beginner classes don't require crates, because each dog is working for such quick periods and a lot of time would be wasted with crating and uncrating. In an advanced class you might get 3-5 turns on a full course. In beginner class you might have 20+ turns doing something short.


----------



## CptJack

So, off the current topic:

I am in the wrong agility class with Kylie. I think.

She's split things off for summer. There's a weaves class. There's a contact class. Weaves teaches, um, weaving, mostly and a little bit of new handling. Contacts teaches more independent contact obstacle performance and gets the teeter going. Both of these classes opened up and were announced after I was in the Then Called intermediate class. 

Yeah, it's no longer considered the intermediate class. The instructor knows Kylie and she believes we'll be fine there, but um. Kylie doesn't weave and she can't do a full teeter. This is the ALL THE THINGS and advanced handling course. 

I'm scared.

I was scared before, I still don't know if I'm taking Bug or Thud, and now I get this? It starts Tuesday, and I have all the panic in the WORLD.


----------



## Laurelin

CptJack said:


> Our dogs have to be leashed between turns. The only dogs in crates are either dogs boarding at the facility (in another room), or dogs waiting for the next class with the same owner. I kind of prefer it that way, to be honest. Not sure how much point there is in getting dogs in and out of crates that consistently. We're all doing the same thing at once, moving around the barn together, and there's more than enough room to spread out and not get in anyone's face even when we're in line. Probably makes things easier for reactive dogs - and I'm sure the instructor wouldn't mind? But literally, with 5 dogs even running full courses you're waiting MAYBE five minutes and most of the time we're not doing full courses. You're waiting while 4-5-6 (or 2-3 some classes) other people run through the tunnel or do two jumps, so it'd be in an out every thirty seconds.
> 
> I'm sure it WORKS and it probably is safer, but man that seems like a lot of effort repeating frequently.


How do you keep dogs from running up to the leashed dogs? 

I've taken classes where they don't require it and to be honest it's a bit of a mess depending on the dogs. Especially when the dog decides to blow the owner off and run up to the waiting dogs. In my experience it's pretty strict in the beginner classes because a lot of dogs don't have great recalls at that point. In more advanced classes it's not so much because we know the dogs and how they get along and which dogs have space issues and that kind of thing. It is liability though and that's most of the reason crates are required. The trainer does not want any liability if one dog attacks another so the dogs are not given access to each other ever. In my experience with dogs in general one of the worst issues is when an off leash dog runs up to an on leash dog... a lot of leash aggression and reactivity out there. 

I have seen at my first club wayyyy back when where the field was fenced off and everyone would hang out outside the fence while one dog worked. That worked well too. But the Texas place had the dogs wait INSIDE the ring (around the edge) while the other dog worked and that was a mess.

Plus in trial settings your dog is going from crate to start line. If our dogs are out of the crates, they are being worked. One of the foundation things we do is teaching an active 'transport' to and from the crate. Basically just a way to teach the dog that they are working now and pay attention. 

We do not work every 5 or so minutes in my class. In the more beginner classes maybe. Now we all run about 4-5 courses or exercises. You may run them several times in a row and be working a good 5-10 minutes a piece.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> How do you keep dogs from running up to the leashed dogs?


I... don't know. We've had that happen once in six months of classes, and that was one instance where someone let their dog go early onto the course, before Kylie was leashed again. Otherwise, it just hasn't happened - like the dogs haven't even glanced at each other, much less interacted (on or off leash, before or after class). Like to the degree that the possibility didn't even occur to me as a possible problem. I can see how it would be, but it's just not something that's come up, even in our classes at the instructor's field which is WIDE OPEN, and the only fencing available being what holds livestock IN. Dogs are leashed or totally off leash. I mean we're standing 10+ feet apart from each other most of the time and on the end of the building AWAY from where work is going on, and it's a 5000 square foot room, but /shrugs. Not something that's happened, and I really think if there was any issue with reactivity that the dog WOULD be asked to wait in a crate.

Here, even the class I'm doing now? It's more work less waiting, not the other way around. We take turns, period. Someone messes something up they get another shot and maybe a little individual work but mostly it's an immediate repeat of a specific exercise or sequence. You do it right, or get it wrong 2 or 3 times and then it's the next person and their dog's turn. It's not individual work for 5-10 minutes at a time, ever. There MAY be some at some point, but I don't think so based on talking to people who have gone all the way through and are titling. 

I don't think there's much training gain in 'crate to start line' though, to be honest. Not unless the dog's got an issue in a crate and wears itself our or can't handle the crate. Though even the TRIALS here? Nope. Watched the youtubes and V-runs and they're very much just waiting around on leash outside the ring and milling around the various green spaces.

Not that crating is bad, but again - just not what we've done or apparently do. I WILL be crating Kylie while Foundations is happening and vice versa, obviously, but...

It'll be interesting to see what happens int he next class, and what level of obedience they're at and how any differences are handled. I will say that this group has been, over all, a crazy group of dogs as far as obedience level and general behavior go.


----------



## Greater Swiss

Awesome info everybody!! Loved the video too. I think Caeda is going to have a blast, and I think she'll do quite well (beginner wise anyway, since her basic commands are solid). She isn't too bad on leash, though with a bunch of dogs around she may be a little tougher to deal with. I might ask if I can use her fur-saver (on the dead ring), since she has some gear recognition with it from Schutzhund and she definitely recognizes it as "working" stuff (and it makes her excited to see it lol). I do respect the positive thing, the only reason I even mentioned the e collar is because she's used to having it on if she is off leash (I actually realized it was on her, but off all day yesterday when we were out doing yard work!  ). I've got my clicker, a 5-6 foot lead (kinda ugly, might use this as an excuse for a new one), my treat "holster" and I'll be stocking up on treats soon, I'll bring her ball tug too (she seems to do better with treats in public places...). I'm pretty much ready to roll! I'll do some concentrated clean-up work on her basics (she luckily knows paw and nose targeting for my hand at least), I might try working on the send out.

I'll have to see if they require a crate. We don't have one anymore, but have been considering getting one anyway (for when we take her to my grandmother's house while we show this one)....just a question of whether I need to bring it or not. SO excited. I'll definitely be posting once we've been there


----------



## Laurelin

My super competitive trainer I went to for a few foundations classes (then had to quit) was very anti treat holder just a warning. She thought a lot of dogs recognized when the treat holder was on or not on so she would not allow them in her class. I've never had another trainer mention it but I've carried that on with my training. No treat holder. lol

I'm excited for y'all! Have fun! 

The issue I see with even a fur saver is a different safety one. There's a lot of concern about dogs getting caught on equipment so if the collar is any kind of tightening collar that could be very dangerous. I HAVE actually seen some pretty gnarly agility accidents where dogs do get hung up on equipment. That's why so many venues have you run the dog without anything on them. A few allow flat collars but no tags. 

My trainer does not care about collars and tags in class but some do. I don't recall there being a talk about collar types but there might have been?


----------



## Laurelin

As far as the transport from crate to working that is from agility right from the start. 

http://www.agilityrightfromthestart...1.pdfhttp://www.clickertraining.com/node/4027
http://agilitynerd.com/blog/agility/seminars/agilityrightfromthestart.html
http://afmdog.com/transport-agility-right-from-the-start/

Admittedly I do not practice them as much as I should because well... she always calls to me and then works well. But that said in our distractions class it really does help and help a lot. When I put forth an effort working on transporting between exercises or between downtime and working time has been very beneficial.

My trainer tailors her instruction to each dog. I mean we all typically work the same sequences but if dog A is having one issue and dog B is having another she will work each separately and the handlers may do different parts of the sequence or do different handling to work through that issue. There is usually a lot of 1 on 1 instruction.



> Not something that's happened, and I really think if there was any issue with reactivity that the dog WOULD be asked to wait in a crate.


I don't think the issue is with the reactive dog being run up to but also just if the reactive dog got loose while running or blew the handler off to go visit the leashed dogs.

At trials our dogs are crated most the day but they do line up outside the ring a few dogs before their turn. There is no way you can not crate at a trial... or at least not easily. Most the time I'm working when not running. We also may be there ALL day long. Or if you're running 6 runs you want downtime for the dog to rest. 

They do need to be able to work with dogs lined up and pass other dogs without issue but there's always a gate of some sort (though yeah Summer can fit through most). There's always a barrier between dogs waiting and the off leash dog running. Not to say loose dogs don't occasionally happen. But it is minimized. Or attempted to be.

I've had one class- my previous one- where all the dogs could be loose together easily. Everyone got along and were often loose around each other. Can't do that in my current class because we have a couple rabble rousers. But it is no big deal at all and in both classes people were pretty much always crated when not working. 

Anyways YMMV but that's just been my experience.


----------



## CptJack

I actually checked and verified, but no. Crates *can* be used at trials and some venues (indoor ones) request it, but there is nothing about them needing to be crated and the instructor (who competes around the area) verified that very, very few people actually crate their dogs before going into the ring. The AKC and NADAC rules at least say 'attached to you by leash or crated', and some people use them for naps/down time so they can wander away from the dog/eat/pee/whatever while someone else is eyeing the dog, but for the majority of the time the dogs are just on leash with their handlers. 

Definitely a YMMV on that one. Very, very interesting and something to think about. 

None of the dogs are every lose around each other, though, just not crated when not working/training. The dogs have never, aside from that one interaction I mentioned when the golden was let loose on the course before Kylie was leashed and off, have ever even interacted - including the dog selective ones. They're in the class together, not crated, but not interacting. Crates are probably safer. I'm still not sorry they're not being used in classes because I'm lazy. I may change my mind about that in a class with a different composition or trials where I don't know the dogs fairly well and stick Kylie in a crate, but right now I'm not complaining.

And it's *really* interesting all around.


----------



## elrohwen

We've actually had a lot of issues with dogs running up to other dogs. Mostly involving my dog. He will run up and sniff other dogs because he's a teenage boy and he blows me off when he's not confident. We've also had issues with dogs running up to him. One pushed through sliding barns doors to get at him and the other was mildly aggressive. I'm lucky Watson is not leash reactive and is generally nonconfrontational or there would have been a fight. He is lucky that the very reactive golden is so well trained. He snarks badly at any dog who gets in his face, but his owner kept him under control when Watson ran up. I'm just not a fan of having other dogs in the ring when one is off leash. My own dog is as friendly as can be and it hasn't worked out well for us.


----------



## SDRRanger

Tonight was class one of our next session. It’s hard to believe another set is over

Tonight after warm up we started with a three jump pin wheel first with dog on right (DOR) and then immediately with dog on left (DOL). Ranger still works better DOL, but he is becoming stronger on his (and my) weak side. We added another jump and a tire to the end and Ranger followed my lead. We worked on a couple different lines (one with a tunnel) and another of chute-jump-tunnel. No one needed to hold the chute, and I welcomed the added time it takes him to worm his way out. I need to work on delivering his cues earlier as the little dogs’ strides give them more time to gather themselves.

Our shining moment in the class was the 6-pole weave which is still set up with the gates. Not only did he enter relaxed in DOR and DOL, but he didn’t try to jump over them to escape and he watched where he was going each time. Granted he’s not moving faster than a walk, but Less Haste; More Speed is going to be our mantra.

The work on the teeter was probably our best yet too. He did need to be reminded that he couldn’t approach on his hind legs pressing against the collar, but when he did hit the teeter and it started to move Ranger showed the first glimpse of self preservation ever in agility class and stopped to balance himself for its descent.

Had some issues with him geeking out about halfway through class (bouncing, fake spooking, and acting spazzy) which makes me wonder if the higher level of brain work at scent class the night before is frying him. When classes were a day apart he seemed better (although last week he got spazzy and had the day in between…but the scent work class was harder than normal. Will have to see how he handles them so close, and hope he can handle it.

Tomorrow is the first trial of the season and I’ll be heading over to help out and hopefully learn a bit about it all.

******

At our centre we don't crate at class. I'm not sure what they do in the higher classes, but right now we work in a line moving through small parts of courses (usually 3-5 pieces, or less if teeter/dog walk/etc). We don't have much issues with running off (the schnauzer that wants to eat Ranger has stopped going for him, but we use management such as dogs between them in line and putting Ranger in a down behind other pieces of equipment).


----------



## Laurelin

I have actually never been to a dog event (not class but a trial/show) where crating was not the norm. I am actually really baffled at how it could be uncommon to crate at a trial? 

Our typical trial day is something like: Arrive around 7-7:30 for check in and measurement (if needed). Set up crates and chair somewhere- there's crating areas specified usually. First dog on the line at 8 am or 8:30 am. We tend to run to 3-7 pm most average sized trials. There was one that ran till 8 pm. I am usually working as a scribe or bar setter or leash runner while we are not running. Summer runs 2-6 runs a day depending on venue and how taxing it is on her, etc. She's crated with some sort of kong or chew and a crate cover while we're not running. I get her out about 4-5 dogs ahead of her. I potty her either right before or right after the walkthrough depending on running order (we are often first on the line since she's so small). I tend to do a few breaks to walk the dogs or just pet them and hang but not for too long. 

I would not want to be holding a leash from 7 am to 5 pm. 

The trials I've been to- AKC- rally, agility, lure coursing, and confo. All typically crated except the lure coursing nationals most people operated out of their cars because it was cool and the cars were on the one end of the field. The AKC agility trial I went to recently was HUGE and I stayed over 2 hours and they had only run excellent JWW. Loads of downtime there. It looked like crate city with just a few paths to move around the place.

NADAC- seemed VERY strict about dogs being on short leashes. I got scolded because I walked Summer through some people (no dogs around) and she jumped on someone. They yelled at me to watch my dog. I thought it was a little bit overkill. 

USDAA is mostly crated as is TDAA though TDAA is pretty laid back all around. 

NASCW nosework was by FAR the strictest about dogs being crated. You were not allowed to have your dog out when you weren't running. They had separate reactive and non reactive dog crating. They had specific entrances and exits and rules about who could have dogs out and in practice areas at a time such that no dogs had to pass each other. It is a very reactive dog sport so I guess that's why.


----------



## CptJack

I really don't know how to answer that, except to say: "they're just not." 

I may have a better idea after Sunday when I'm actually there and can report, though that's just a VT run. Maybe more people rated more than she's letting on, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but from what she said they are pretty definitively out of crates more than in by a fair deal. Short leashes, yes if you're in cramped quarters, tethering absolutely NOT, but expect most dogs to be on leash and with you (or on a leash with their owner), unless you (they) are actively doing something else.


And, in fairness, she did go out of her way to point out that most of hte local stuff is *tiny*.


----------



## elrohwen

I agree with Laurelin that crating is the norm. I've been to many AKC shows, with confo+obedience, and also with agility, and all dogs were crated all of the time, unless their owners chose to walk them around for exercise. 

Watson needs a ton of time walking around at shows to get acclimated and not be wild, and it's really out of the norm that we walk him for an hour or so. Every other person has their dog crated the majority of the time and we're the weird ones to have him out on a leash.


----------



## Kathyy

At trials there is no way you cannot be there without a crate. Course walking for one thing. Working for another. We pretend the dogs are relaxing in them during the day too. There is some misunderstanding going on here. 

Here mostly we use exercise pens as trials are outside. I always get the dog out 10 minutes before the run to walk the dog in the potty area, walk around the ring as far as is possible to check out who is there and to see where those scary eyes are [cameras] and remind dog that those nice people sitting inside the ring love to see dog jump/run and hate getting kisses and snuggles then use the practice jump half a dozen times. I never line up. I tell the ring steward we are here and we only approach the start area once the previous team has started their run. I am playing with the dog to keep attention on me and off the other dogs and to keep energy up. Lovely having only outside trials, lots of room.

Here beginning classes have the dogs on leash all the time with handlers all the time and working all the time. If the instructor isn't working with you you are doing stays/sits/downs/sides/close/front/recall/touch and whatever else you can think up. Once you start with restrained recalls the non working dogs move back as far away from the working dog as possible. Since the dogs have been together for a few classes by this point the zooms are less likely to happen and the dogs aren't so worried about strange dogs around. Once the dogs are in intermediate and running full sequences then it makes sense to crate the dog as we need to watch the working team get feedback from the instructor and if you are doing that you cannot have much attention on the dog. If you are in a special class like the weaves and contacts [mine was gamblers] then the dogs stay out as turns are short. Non working dogs stay on leash for the most part unless instructor has stations set up. Last week we actually had a team on either end of the dog walk and it worked fine. Multiple dogs were off leash at the same time even. 

Bring a bazillion treats. Dinner kibble if your dog eats the stuff. Bring a tug if he likes them. Bring treats you can toss on the ground and treats that are sticky. Big ones and small ones. I thought Ginger adored chicken and lung. Well she likes string cheese even more and really would like a treat exchange as the other dogs clearly get better stuff than she does. 

6 foot leash on a flat collar is all you need. Be sure if the leash happens to be off [not likely during the first class] that you can easily snag your dog with the collar. Reason I started using martingales back in the stone age was an Aussie in class was wearing one. Aussies in flat collars are impossible to snag as the collar vanishes in the coat but the martingale lets the collar ride on top of the coat then you use the loop as a mini tab. Sassy had a short coat but she preferred me to walk her by that martingale loop rather than putting my hand in a flat collar and been sold on the things ever since.

CptJack, if she isn't ready for sequences with contacts/weaves then your turn will simply be whatever she is ready for. The dogs in Ginger's class are all at different levels in contacts and weaves. One is doing full sets of straight, Ginger is doing offset full sets, other dogs are at 6 poles offset. Ginger is running to the end and dropping the half height teeter on her own, others are barely on the teeter. So if your girl just does weave practice for 5 minutes then that is what you will get to do. She is such a smartie she will watch the other dogs and pick it up faster than you think possible. Ginger has done that with stay, zero stay going into agility class and incredible start line stay a couple weeks later.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have always taken crates with me to trials although don't use them a lot as I can usually park the truck and RV trailer close by and they are happier being in it till their turn. If I am one of the first couple of dogs in the ring, I bring the dog over and put him in the crate after I have walked the course or just sit with him on lead.

At our Foundation Agility classes, nobody crates their dogs unless they happen to have more than one to work on. They work off lead right from the start unless they are really reactive but usually they require you to complete an Obedience class first so the dogs are usually well behaved. We did have a Golden Retriever that did not like other dogs and had a few incidents with him though. We just kept a close eye on him and picked up our little dogs if he was loose. He never bothered the bigger dogs.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh yeah forgot about course walking and briefings. The dog will have to be put somewhere when that is going on because you can't have the dog out on the course with you while you walk it.

I am jealous of all the RV people. I'm sure mine would like that better.


----------



## MrsBoats

Every trial I have been to (rally, obedience, and three venues of agility) crating is without a doubt the norm. You can be at an agility trial literally all day. I have gotten to trials at 8 am and left at 5pm (and sometimes even later.) I couldn't imagine holding my dog for 9 hours. 

I have been through 5 agility instructors over the years...and only one out of those 5 had us hold our dog during class when they weren't working. All of the others had us crate our dogs while they weren't working. 

In regards to treat bags...I don't use them because a dog totally knows when you have it on and when you don't. I use vests and hoodies with pockets and keep my rewards in those pockets. In the summer, I wear cargo shorts and capris and keep my treats in those cargo pockets. The pocketed clothes (with the pockets empty...but my dogs don't know that) are what I wear into the ring for trials in rally, obedience, and agility. So the picture of me my dogs see never changes from training to trialing.


----------



## kadylady

For collars, my club requires a flat collar with no tags or anything hanging that can get caught on equipment. A 4-6 foot leash is fine. In the beginning a training tab was very handy for Zoey as she had a tendency to consider leaving our work area to visit at times, so the tab allowed to me grab her without her dragging a leash while trying to learn to jump. I ended up making one because I couldn't find a length/width that I liked. In the beginning class we would all spread out on the floor to work on certain exercises or line up to take turns depending on what it was. We would also divide the room in half with gating and half could work on one thing and half another.

We typically crate during class at my club. In the beginning classes not so much but more often now in the advanced classes. Our floor is separated into the working area and the crating area with gating separating the areas. So unless we were all working on a short exercise there is only one dog working on the floor at a time, which is more the norm for the advanced classes. It's not required to crate your dog during class, but in order to walk the course you have to put your dog somewhere unless you have someone else there to hold for you. In the classes I have taken most recently we work a course of anywhere from 6-12 obstacles one at a time. Usually a team will work the course 2-3 times with instruction. Then the next person goes. There are typically 5-10 people in my classes so there is plenty of down time in between turns. I like crating between turns for a couple reasons. One, I like to be able to watch others taking their turns and seeing how they handle the course and how their dog responds and I don't have to worry about what my dog is doing. I can also run out and help adjust bars. Two, it gives her a mental break between turns. Sure I could down stay her on a leash between turns but crating her tell hers hey this rest time, use it. And she does. She rests amazing in her crate. And then when I get her out it tells her hey this is work time now, lets go work, and she's ready to work. It also alleviates some distraction, on a leash she may be making eyes at other dogs and people wanting to play or visit so when we do get to our turn that's what she's thinking about, rather than thinking about working. And lastly, crating in class has prepared us well for crating at trials. She has no stress crating at trials and has learned to take the rest opportunity and use it. 

I can't imagine not crating at trials. For one I think my dog's mind would be wiped by the end of the day. When she's out on a leash she's looking, interacting, watching, taking everything in. When she's crated she's resting for the next class. By the end of the day if she was out on a leash the whole day I would mentally have no dog left. Also, I'm usually working at a trial when I am not running. Bar setting, course building, leash running ect. Depending on my class size I will get Zoey out to potty either right before or right after we walk the course. Then I'm usually taking her ringside about 4-6 dogs before us, doing some tugging and some focus stuff. After she runs we run back to our crating area to get treats, I walk her around a bit, take her potty again and then back in the crate. Between our classes I will get her out, walk her around, potty, play a little and hang out, but then it's back in the crate. The trials we go to are super long days, 7am to finishing anywhere from 3-8pm, with anywhere from 2-5 runs per day. It's just a lot and I can't imagine doing it without some type of rest situation for the dog. Some people crate out of their cars depending on weather and how much space is available, but generally they are still using crates in the cars (so they can open all the doors for airflow). The Rally trials I've been to most people crate as well, even though they are much smaller and shorter. Still have to walk the course, still want to give the dogs a little down time, especially if doing more than one run.

We are kind of on a (hopefully) short break from classes right now I guess. Just got confirmation yesterday that this next session class that I signed up for was cancelled due to low enrollment. Still have access to open floor at the club for practice but I love being in class with instruction. Going to talk to my instructor and see if she has any suggestions or if I can possible get some privates with her until the next set of classes is offered. Our next trial is AKC the second weekend in July and then another AKC outside trial the first weekend in August.


----------



## SDRRanger

I'm heading out now to volunteer at the first Wednesday night trial being held by my centre. Figure the more volunteers the less work that needs to be done by actual exhibitors, and I'll get a chance to start learning how the trials work before I am there with Ranger. Got my sunscreen, water, a chair, sunglasses/hat and am ready to roll!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

I've never had anyone say anything to me for having a bait bag on, even in seminars.... But I will say that once the dog is done with the more "foundation" stuff and I'm rewarding a lot less, I will just put a few treats in my pockets instead of having that thing on my waist. Never had an issue with my dogs not responding when I do not have it on, though perhaps it's because it's not on me forever and for always to begin with. At trials I keep it on me so that I have enough rewards to keep Kimma doing tricks and such before our turn, and ditch it when we are about 2-3 dogs away and bring a few treats to last us while we wait in line.

I generally work out of my car at seminars and class, so that could be an option too. I don't trial during the summers and my classes are generally at night so I don't have an issue with heat really. When I'm teaching I will crate my guys in the building, but they are in the ring with me (I only teach obedience classes). The classes we took when we started to really get in to agility didn't require crating between turns. Once and a while we had dogs running up to other dogs, but nothing bad happened luckily. Definitely not the way I would run things now, however, and the place we train at currently has a ring that's totally gated so you can wait with your leashed dog between runs, but the dog working isn't able to get to your dog. There are also tie-outs available for when you are walking the course.


----------



## elrohwen

I've had some trainers comment on never using bait bags. I do use one when I need it, like if I don't have pockets, or I'm going to be giving a lot of rewards and my pockets are small. I've never had an issue with the dog not working because I don't have it on, though I do change things up a lot and it's not a constant.


----------



## kadylady

Was at the club last night for cleaning duty with my instructor and another friend. We brought the dogs and played once we were finished cleaning. We did some work with a tunnel, finding the entrance from behind it. Zoey did really good. We have been doing a lot of tunnel work lately due to her random tunnel avoidance and she was like a little tunnel sucker last night. Then we worked some contact discrimination with a tunnel and A-frame. Of course my little dog who always always ALWAYS chooses the contact obstacle was tunnel sucking last night, with a dark tunnel (her least favorite)! It made me a little happy. We spent a bit of time determining the best lines and combination of cues for each obstacle. 

In regards to the bait bag, I've been told mostly to just make sure you change it up, don't always have it on. I don't like using a bait bag in agility anymore because I hate that it bounces on me when I run. Lately I've been learning and experimenting with more and different ways to reward and have started incorporating more toys into our training as well. I did just recently buy a pair of lightweight capris with nice big pockets that have become my dog training pants, perfect for treats and small toys and running around in.


----------



## elrohwen

I used to have nice dog training shorts with lots of pockets, but I gained a couple lbs and they are too tight now. I tried to find more, but cargo shorts seem to be back out of style! Boo. I thought hiking shorts always came in cargo varieties but I haven't been able to find more this year.


----------



## Kathyy

I use a bait bag because most treats are damp and smelly! So not having cooked chicken and such in my pockets. Once the exercises are long I use a tug and treat to throw at the end but that is for later although she is starting to be interested in it. Some dogs get into trouble with bait bags but I suspect it is because the handler is dependent on it and thinks the dog is working because of the bag which just isn't so for most dogs. 

One thing I do is toss treats if the exercise was something where I want the dog to look forward like the weaves or sending but from my hands if doing close work like reading front crosses and wraps correctly. I really wish something else came in a wrapper like string cheese as it works both ways. I can break off bits for close work and toss the whole thing for big rewards. Ginger goes to it then I catch up with her and pinch off bits. 

Watch out if food is in pockets. My dogs have gotten into fights about food crumbs in jackets hanging in the front hall and I have lost many pockets to Sassy chewing through them when the pants were in the laundry basket. I'd rather keep food in a bag that can be washed and kept away from dogs.


----------



## CptJack

Kathyy said:


> I use a bait bag because most treats are damp and smelly! So not having cooked chicken and such in my pockets. Once the exercises are long I use a tug and treat to throw at the end but that is for later although she is starting to be interested in it. Some dogs get into trouble with bait bags but I suspect it is because the handler is dependent on it and thinks the dog is working because of the bag which just isn't so for most dogs.
> 
> One thing I do is toss treats if the exercise was something where I want the dog to look forward like the weaves or sending but from my hands if doing close work like reading front crosses and wraps correctly. I really wish something else came in a wrapper like string cheese as it works both ways. I can break off bits for close work and toss the whole thing for big rewards. Ginger goes to it then I catch up with her and pinch off bits.
> 
> Watch out if food is in pockets. My dogs have gotten into fights about food crumbs in jackets hanging in the front hall and I have lost many pockets to Sassy chewing through them when the pants were in the laundry basket. I'd rather keep food in a bag that can be washed and kept away from dogs.



Not putting food directly into my pockets! That'd be pretty gross pretty fast, considering I train with liver, deli-meat, hot dogs, and cooked bacon. (NONE of my dogs care about cheese. I don't even know what that is)

These things work just fine for putting the food in, inside your pocket, and then removing all the bits after - no matter how damp or smelly the treat! They're 300 for 3.00, and I use them for poop bags, too.


----------



## SDRRanger

I had such a good time at the agility trial. I helped with setting up courses, height changes, ran leashes for the starter jumper #2, and got to socialize with a lot of the dogs/owners. Everyone was nice (which is a change from the horse show world) and it was really great watching how people reacted to fumbles on the course...was nice to see how lots of people just smiled and kept going. There was a woman whose dog seemed very nervous and just went out to let her dog pop over a few things and get disqualified to give her dog a low stress experience. 

I must admit I was jealous of the people with the slower dogs and it seem to give them a chance to really guide their dog close. Saw a couple FAST dogs and realized how early I need to cue Ranger for upcoming equipment. 

Only question I have: How the heck does snooker work...I watched two classes and am still as confused as before.


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> These things work just fine for putting the food in, inside your pocket, and then removing all the bits after - no matter how damp or smelly the treat! They're 300 for 3.00, and I use them for poop bags, too.


I use those too when I am carrying food in my pocket...I also train with hot dog and deli meat sometimes and it does not work to just have in your pocket lol


----------



## MrsBoats

I have been thinking about the bait bag thing...I don't know one person in my competition obedience circles who wears one. We all stuff food in pockets...some people who are yucked out by chicken, hot dogs, whatever in their pockets, keeps it in a small ziplock. I use either string cheese or natural balance/red barn rolls for rewards. It's just a part of my life that I have food roll crumbs in my pockets. I really don't care that I have food roll crumbs in my pocket...but I'm someone who is covered in mulch, dirt, and compost more often than not for work. Most of my clothes are all messed up from landscaping and gardening anyway...so I guess I don't really give two hoots about food directly in my pockets. I carry food in both my right and left vest pockets...and I find it's just quick and easy to grab a treat from an open pocket. I reward fronts from both pockets equally with both hands equally because if you favor one side, you'll find your dog eventually will gravitate to that side because of reinforcement placement history. 

I haven't had the guys duke it out over food in my pockets or try to rip apart my clothes for food roll remnants left behind. 

I have seen bait bags in basic obedience classes, puppy classes, and my CGC prep class I teach. If I see bait bags in my rally classes I teach, I recommend that people get rid of them and stick their treats in a pockets. My mantra is train like you trial and trial like you train. I never have a bait bag when I'm trialing....so I never have one in training.


----------



## CptJack

I have used baitbags and seen them used a few times, but it's almost always just in situations where people are wearing pants without pockets, so they're not part of the 'usual' picture. I would think you'd have to use them pretty consistently to have the dog figure out that if you weren't wearing one that you had no treats. Especially since if, most of the time, you're still pulling treats out when you're NOT wearing one.


----------



## Kathyy

It took me YEARS to figure out why I was getting whistled off the field in snooker and now it is my favorite class. Not fun for a casual spectator to watch as it is confusing. Even for the judge, I got whistled off once because he thought I messed up but he had counted wrong on a #7 with about 4 jumps when I was allowed to take all those jumps any which way you like *in the opening*.

Baggies are too fumbly. I want to reach in but with baggies I have to pull it out and then twist it back closed so treats don't spill. I don't much like bait bags but the tug and treat is worse at the moment. My shirt is over the bait bag anyway, not sure why food in pocket is less obvious to a dog than that.


----------



## CptJack

I like those particular bags because I *don't* twist them closed. They're taller/bigger than your pocket, there is absolutely no way for them to spill and they fill your whole pocket basically making it plastic lined. I might have the top of the thing hanging OUT of my pocket at the end of a training session but there is no opening and closing or spilling. Put your hand in your pocket and your hand is in the bag of treats. Frankly, even when I use a bait bag, I don't just dump food into it because ew, gross (says my squeamish self).

I don't think it's that the bait bag is more obvious than a pocket. It's that you can wear pockets into the ring, so if the dog assumes you have no food because you have no bag that's not an issue with pants with pockets, because the dog assumes you might still have treats and isn't tempted to say 'Nope, not working if I'm not getting paid'. May or may not be an issue for any individual dog. Kylie? No worries, she works to work. Thud? I better produce SOMETHING he wants or have the potential to, or he's leaving. Bug? The something better be food.


----------



## kadylady

One of the trainers I work with picked up these Pocket Liners to try out. Not sure what her assessment of them is yet. I don't mind using baggies in my sweatshirt or jacket pockets but don't like it so much in my pants pockets. Zoey loves her some string cheese though so I can open that halfway and stick it right in my pants pocket still partially wrapped and just break off chunks as needed.


----------



## Laurelin

My pockets end up lined with all sorts of hotdog juice and other fun stuff. I really only wear my agility pants in agility.... Mia likes to clean out my pockets when we get home too. She waits for me to change then goes right to the laundry and grabs my pants to empty the pockets.

Kinda gross but it works. And in trials I don't mind if there's hotdog smell on me at all. Actually meatballs are my go to.


----------



## MrsBoats

Laurelin said:


> Kinda gross but it works. And in trials I don't mind if there's hotdog smell on me at all. Actually meatballs are my go to.


Yeah...smelling like smoked lamb or chicken or hotdogs or meatballs is sort of an advantage at a trial. LOL The longer I train dogs, the less and less squeamish I get about stuff. I've been known to even put pupperonis in my own mouth so I can spit them to my dog for a good front (that was my first rottie.)


----------



## Laurelin

SDRRanger said:


> Only question I have: How the heck does snooker work...I watched two classes and am still as confused as before.


USDAA? I'm not sure if snookers is different in other venues. 

You basically take a red jump, then an other colored obstacle, then a red, then other, then red, then other, then a closing sequence. It's really fun.


----------



## Laurelin

MrsBoats said:


> Yeah...smelling like smoked lamb or chicken or hotdogs or meatballs is sort of an advantage at a trial. LOL The longer I train dogs, the less and less squeamish I get about stuff. I've been known to even put pupperonis in my own mouth so I can spit them to my dog for a good front (that was my first rottie.)


So far I have not found anything better than the meatballs. All my friends' dogs were wanting my meatballs over the other treats they'd brought. Now everyone brings meatballs to trials.


----------



## Laurelin

On Summer agility news highlights of the last class: She weaved in class! Not fast, mind you but it happened. And my trainer saw it. We're tailoring weaves differently to her vs the other dogs but it's working. 

We had one really fantastic speed circle. We got done and a couple people said 'Wow that was fast!' 'The person or the dog?' 'The person!' It cracks me up how often I get complimented on my speed when running and asked if I was a runner. Ummm... total opposite. I am so not athletic but my trainer says I'm one of the fastest runners she's trained. So that's fun. When I run fast, Summer runs fast. I think that's a big issue we've had with TDAA is that you can't really open up and run since it's more condensed and since I move slower, Summer does too. 

I really hope nextdog is FAST. I think that would be a lot of fun and fit my handling better. Summer is pretty fast but still small and older. 

Everything else went well too. 

I've given up on trying to get her AKC registration so I think I'm going to just ILP her or whatever they call it. At this point in the game we're doing it for fun and not accolades so I don't think it's a big deal. I just can't get her breeder/former owner to respond to my communications.


----------



## So Cavalier

> USDAA? I'm not sure if snookers is different in other venues.
> 
> You basically take a red jump, then an other colored obstacle, then a red, then other, then red, then other, then a closing sequence. It's really fun.


This is how it works in CPE too. There are four red jumps, (you only do three) and each obstacle is numbered. You design your opening sequence. Some people go for smoothest flow, some go for the glory to get the highest points available. The closing sequence is determined by the judge's map. You get points in the opening, red=1 point, the point value for the obstacles are their "sequence numbers", then you get points for the obstacles completed in the closing sequence, ending up at a table to stop the clock. You can Q without completing the final sequence if you have enough points in the opening. If you blow it, the judge blows a whistle and you go to the table cuz you are done. Even if you get whistled, you could still Q _if you have enough points_...most of the time that doesn't happen though.


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> My pockets end up lined with all sorts of hotdog juice and other fun stuff. I really only wear my agility pants in agility.... Mia likes to clean out my pockets when we get home too. She waits for me to change then goes right to the laundry and grabs my pants to empty the pockets.
> 
> K


Ha, my agility pants go under lockdown once I get home-- Lola gets so excited by the idea of a forgotten cookie in a pocket that she just chews right through the pants to get into the pocket instead of just ...opening the pocket.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have come to not really like Snooker as I have been stuck in Advanced Snooker all last year. Remmy only needs two more Q's in Advanced Snooker to get his Advanced Games Title. He has had his Advanced Gamblers and Jumpers for a couple of years now. It is a fun game if your dog works close and under control which we have been having trouble with, too many "zoomie" classes.


----------



## SDRRanger

Kyllobernese said:


> I have come to not really like Snooker as I have been stuck in Advanced Snooker all last year. Remmy only needs two more Q's in Advanced Snooker to get his Advanced Games Title. He has had his Advanced Gamblers and Jumpers for a couple of years now. It is a fun game if your dog works close and under control which we have been having trouble with, too many "zoomie" classes.


There is a woman (who is in my agility class with her young sheltie) who has an older sheltie who is stuck with one portion of his games for his advanced game title...everything else is fine, but she can't manage to get him to work far enough away. He's 8 and she brings him just to try to get Q's in that class.


----------



## MrsBoats

I took some video of Mr. O and his agility from yesterday. I finally got a camera I can take better video with than my phone with a tripod. Anyway, one thing I have been trying to work on with him is keeping him running with me. O (like Lars) has been doing more and more running way ahead of me and this time I am going to really work with getting him to run more with me. So, I have been rewarding him for coming into my side and staying close instead of running ahead and trying to keep him focused more on my direction I'm trying to give him. With this video...I'm running him to the tunnel first to pattern him to that first before I will make him turn and do a serpentine the next video. 






Here's the real stuff I wanted to work on...getting him to follow my front cross into the serpentine instead of jumping big and ending up in the tunnel (and some unplanned start line stays as I fluff tunnels and grab more treats off screen LOL.)






He tends to run with so much power that decelerating, collecting his stride and turning some what tightly is a challenge for him. I know that he won't probably ever turn tightly like a border collie who are like slinkies with legs. But at least he can learn how to turn as efficiently as his cinder block like body will let him.


----------



## elrohwen

I don't have too much of an issue with gross food in my pockets, and I typically put it in ziplock baggies anyway (I like the snack sized ones).

I just really hate pulling food out of the pockets of my jeans, which is what I primarily wear. I can hardly fit anything in there, they're tight enough that it's not quick and easy to get my hand in, and it's close enough to my body that cheese gts soft and melty. If I have good pockets, I use them over a treat bag, but if my particularl outfit doesn't pockets, or they're inconvenient small pockets, I'm ok with a bait bag. 

Honestly, if I were really prepping and proofing to go into a trial ring I would ditch the bag, just because I would want to present a more consistent picture to the dog every time we worked. But if I'm just playing around in my basement, working on a new behavior, or rewarding him for ignoring dogs on walks, I will grab the bait bag because my usual lounge wear doesn't have pocket - I haven't seen any issues with that so far. I go back and forth enough between pockets, bait bag, and food on the counter that his reactions are the same.

I used a bait bag for his first year of obedience training classes. Last weekend I went to a seminar and didn't use it. He actually worked better at the seminar (due to maturity and training) despite not having the bait bag so I don't think it's that big of a deal.


----------



## SDRRanger

Loved the last sequence you did MrsBoats...He really checked in before the last jump  I think I'm going to video some of my sessions with Ranger so I can sit with a cuppa and analyse them afterward from comfort (and a rewind)


----------



## MrsBoats

I love to sit and analyze my training videos. If you have Quicktime, you can do slow mo scrubbing and you can really see what is going on. I'll sit and study where I am and doing and where is my dog taking off for a jump or how he is jumping. In slow mo, you can see exactly why a bar comes down or what you did to cue an off course or refusal. You can learn so much by watching your agility in slow motion. Watching my videos in regular speed, sometimes it's hard to concentrate on what my dog and what I'm doing at the same time. Slow mo is such a great thing!! If you do a lot of training by yourself in either obedience or agility...you really, really should be videoing your work.


----------



## SDRRanger

Yeah, I have an agility class a week and a nose work class but apart from that I am on my own all the time with training so video would definitely help. I have a video camera AND a tripod so really I have no excuses


----------



## MrsBoats

Video for obedience is a must when you're training alone. I catch myself doing all sorts of stuff where I can get hit and lose points...like stepping into my dog on a halt that I may not really know that I'm doing. I caught myself on video yesterday helping Lars with my upper body on a front with articles way more than he needs. I thought I knew I did it...but holy crap, it was obvious on video. I can see if he's moving in on his stand on signals when I'm walking to the opposite side of the ring with my back turned on him. The devil is in the details in obedience (and agility handling) and video will help you notice details that will screw you in your performance and score. Anyway....enough about obedience here...I'll get back to talking about agility.


----------



## Kathyy

SDRRanger said:


> There is a woman (who is in my agility class with her young sheltie) who has an older sheltie who is stuck with one portion of his games for his advanced game title...everything else is fine, but she can't manage to get him to work far enough away. He's 8 and she brings him just to try to get Q's in that class.


I moved to a gamblers class for just that reason and Max got a gamble Q for his MAD after maybe 2 classes. There was a Sheltie who's handler was planning on handling from a scooter in the class and it sure was hard for the dog to move away but the super short sequences with lots of cheering for the amazing go ons the dogs did really relaxed all of us. I stayed in the class way too long and forgot how to handle a standard class though!

My difficulties getting Sassy to gamble had me training Max completely differently. I only clicked if he wasn't looking at me and I mostly tossed his treat in front of him rather than having him come to me for it. Still had trouble with gambles. Ginger is already going out to the table and doing sends to a couple of jumps 10' away or so for her meals. Then in class she cannot see the tunnel right in front of her face. Grrr.

Max got 2 out of the 3 super Qs in Championship snooker class needed to title but had a bazillion regular Qs in performance snooker and zero super Qs. In Championship there was no way on earth he could get a Steeplechase leg and without that he couldn't get a championship. He did get a leg in whatever steeplechase performance is called! Oh well, he was my brave champion even if USDAA didn't get to give him a rosette. 

Worst case I know about was a wonderful dog who couldn't get her championship because of the table. Somehow the handler got 4 standard legs but couldn't get the last leg. 

A super Q is given to the top 15% dogs in a class and they must have qualified. If there are 25 dogs in a class then the top 4 qualifiers would get super Qs. If a class is small and another class did better work the judge might combine classes. Once Max didn't get a super Q although he got first place in 16" because the top finishing 22" dogs collected more points than him. 

I was terrible in class last night. Cued poor Ginger all wrong, forgot to keep my eye on her and she actually got the zoomies because I faced the jump which pushed her right off it. She, on the other hand, had her little paw up in the air all night calling out pick me, pick me every time the teacher was ready for another dog and never wanted to stop working. She was sending to the tunnel better, got 12 nearly closed weaves down if I chanted the whole time, contacts were solid as a rock and there were no grumbles at the other dogs. We did a long sequence, 11 jumps and tunnels with the table and I was able to front cross her which was nice.


----------



## Greater Swiss

Yet another couple of questions in preparation for class in August. 

First....how important are the command words? Meaning, are there standard agility words, or can I use words I'm used to using (for instance, a close heel is Fuss for Caeda....). Is there a list of the commands that are often given during agility so I can make sure I match things up the right way (and when training new ones I don't mess up and use the same word as something else...or something dumb like that). Also....this might seem weird, are double commands allowed in agility? I know it is kind of early to think of that, but I'm curious. 

Secondly, from what I understand yelling at your dog and such is against the rules, or at very least considered very not cool, which I completely agree with....but when I give Caeda commands I sound....um authoritative....but not angry (IMO anyway, and Caeda doesn't act like I'm mad at her). Lets just say, we fit right in at Schutzhund with our command delivery. I don't yell, but I project, if that makes sense. If I use a more "cutesy" voice, she will ignore it, she has never responded to the cutesy tone at all. Clear authoritative is something she has always responded to. Is this going to cause me an issue?


----------



## elrohwen

Don't worry about it. You can use whatever commands you want. They will probably tell you what is standard but nobody cares if you use your own cues

They also won't care how you deliver cues. Everybody is different in the heat of the moment. As long as you're not screaming negative things at your dog he instructor won't care. I haven't met any trainer who wanted people to give commands in a cutesy tone. 

Don't worry! It's really about as basic as classes come. You will be well ahead of the curve.


----------



## Greater Swiss

I just don't want to make a bad impression right off of the bat, and I know the "authoritative" tone can seem harsh to some people, and I know "meanness" (just as a blanket term) isn't ok....so if my delivery isn't considered mean, I think we'll do great. Caeda is way above the curve already, but the environment alone will pose a challenge, and some excitement, and a ton of fun I'm sure


----------



## elrohwen

I think you have a but of a mistaken impression about agility people. Negativity is generally frowned on, but in the sense of yelling "no" at your dog when they make an honest mistake. If you raise your voice to give a cue it's really not a thing. If your dog takes the wrong obstacle, probably because you subtly miscued it, it's not ok to scream at your dog and tell them how horrible they are. I don't think you'll have any issues.


----------



## CptJack

Greater Swiss said:


> I just don't want to make a bad impression right off of the bat, and I know the "authoritative" tone can seem harsh to some people, and I know "meanness" (just as a blanket term) isn't ok....so if my delivery isn't considered mean, I think we'll do great. Caeda is way above the curve already, but the environment alone will pose a challenge, and some excitement, and a ton of fun I'm sure


Nah, you'll be fine. I think only negative fall out I've seen from 'style' in our classes was when the golden-doodles owner (not handler, the father of hte kid handler) kept smacking the dog on the butt fairly hard. He's loosened up and stopped that nonsense. He was just getting anxious about his dog being a goof and waaaaaay overcompensating. It was obviously upsetting the dog and not working. Lots of people are fairly loud/stern sounding when giving commands. Lots of people aren't, too, but I really don't think you're going to be looked down on. 

Not that we know the individual people in your class, but you really should be fine.


----------



## So Cavalier

CptJack said:


> Nah, you'll be fine. I think only negative fall out I've seen from 'style' in our classes was when the golden-doodles owner (not handler, the father of hte kid handler) kept smacking the dog on the butt fairly hard. He's loosened up and stopped that nonsense. He was just getting anxious about his dog being a goof and waaaaaay overcompensating. It was obviously upsetting the dog and not working.


Striking a dog inside the ring or on the trial grounds for that matter will get you a one year suspension in CPE if the judge sees you. You will be NQd for intentionally touching your dog in the ring no matter what the reason.

You will hear a lot of shreaking in the ring from some competitors from time to time. I have saved an off-course by yelling my dog's name many a time...not in a mean way, but definitely loudly. You can get caught up in the moment. Swearing is a huge no-no. You can be reprimanded for using too harsh a tone. It is the judge's call...I have found the quieter I am, the more my dog pays attention to body cues....I have found that if I don't talk to her, I pay better attention to the cues I give her. It is just too hard for me to "run silent".


----------



## Laurelin

Yes you will see people running with all sorts of methods of cuing the dog. Some run silent or virtually silent. Others will scream and yell. The only thing that really bugs me (and others it seems) is when someone is being totally unfair to their dog. There's a few crowds known for being a little... too serious. But you see all types. Some judges will warn right up front that they really will send you packing if they think you're being unfair to your dog. Swearing at the dog is another thing that can get you DQ'd.

I keep things very positive with Summer because she's pretty soft and not the most driven. I find keeping it up and positive and fast paced keeps her going better.


----------



## Greater Swiss

Sounds like I won't have a problem then unless there is someone particularly sensitive. It is just coming from Schutzhund, and seeing the general delivery and such of commands (never mind some of the correction), I can see how it could seem harsh to some. I don't smack her in a nasty way (she likes a good strong pet on the butt...but that doesn't really count), or I'll tap her on the shoulder occasionally to get her attention, but not something anyone would mistake as a hit. I don't yell at Caeda mean, or call her names in a mean way. I just don't want to be inadvertently disrespectful to anyone, or start off on a bad foot. Sounds like it is going to be pretty awesome, having the choice whether to "run silent" or not....so much less rigid! Not too serious is exactly what I'm looking for. The beginners class is going to be a blast and if I'm reading how this is going to go properly, I can see us going further. I don't plan on competing, but just more advanced classes for the fun of it, something that seems much more of an option in agility.


----------



## Laurelin

Old Dog Weaves!






You can er.... tell we've neglected her right side. But the left side is awesome! Keep in mind the heat index right now is 98 degrees outside. So she's holding up pretty well for a little old thing (I also wetted her down). 


We're slowly working the right. I think once it clicks she'll be good to go.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I made that mistake when I was training Remmy, only having him on my left side. It has never been a problem but there are times when it would have made a smoother course if he would work with me on the other side. I have worked on it and he is better but I still prefer to use the left side if I possibly can as I know he will do it better and faster.


----------



## CptJack

So, we started up again tonight. Foundations for Bug, Intermediate for Kylie.

Foundations? Eh, it's a foundations class. TEN other dogs, all the chaos and noise in the world and the level of obedience is WAY below where Kylie's class was (like... most people don't know what a marker word is, and most of the dogs could pretty much... sit and that was it). It was loud, it was hot, people never shut up and there was a THREE year old there with her mother and their dog. I am not going to love this one. Cute dogs, but OMFG the noise and chaos and just... really, really unpleasant. REALLY unpleasant. Like I actually ended up angry about some of these people and this stuff, which was totally unfair but I was hot and cranky and people not listening and THREE YEAR OLD all over the place and. No. Just... no. Bug did fine, except the odd snaffu with the agility instructor demoing recalling to sides and Bug thinking she was being called, but decently. Nice to have a dog that loves everyone for a change, anyway.

Kylie's class was four dogs, total (counting her) - BC, MAS, Her, some kind of shepherd X. None of the dogs or handlers were from her beginner class, but there was a handler from her foundations class with another dog which was kind of neat. Otherwise... I have never seen Kylie do anything with less enthusiasm than she did at agility tonight . She didn't just walk the course, by the end she was TRUDGING through it. Toward the end I asked her to wait, then released her. She kept sitting there, staring off to the side for a solid thirty seconds before I caught her attention. In fairness to her, it was 90+ degrees in there, she'd been waiting for an hour (with water and a cooling pad), and except for the flyball BC, none of the dogs were much more energetic. NONE of them people had any energy.

Pretty sure signing up during the summer was a mistake. Also pretty sure we need to take a break. I'm not doing it NOW, next week may be better, but she was so, so, just...over it by the end of class.

(In related news, I now want a MAS like burning)


----------



## MrsBoats

Here's some video of us screwing around with contacts and a fun little course from an old Clean Run (Lars is not amused in the background LOL):











That kid does have some rockin' contacts. 

This was over the weekend...I was working on getting him to collect after a tunnel and wrap and follow my cues instead of being a tunnel sucker. The jumps are lower because I don't jump him at full height everyday. Jump height isn't the main objective here...handling is. 











Go O!! LOL


----------



## CptJack

O looks gorgeous. I'm also jealous as heck of your agility set up!

I'm sitting here contemplating Kylie's... apathy and lethargy at agility tonight and I really, really think I 'burned' jumps and tunnels for her. She was still pretty decent at contact obstacles tonight, and she's still getting a reward at the bottom of those. We've lost since stopped rewarding for jumps and tunnels and her enthusiasm there is just gone. I'm going to work on it some at home, since I have the food and obstacles to do that - and since home is where and how I primarily burned those, I think, but I'm also going to pop off an email to Andrea and ask about actually stopping and rewarding her some during class. There are four people in that class, it's not like we don't have time. And it's not going to take up any more time than her being as sluggish and unenthusiastic as she was tonight, anyway.

I could be wrong, it could just be the heat, but I really think the speed that class moves and the speed *I* moved failed at getting value to really transfer into performing those obstacles. I need to fix that.

Bad.

*ETA:* And I could remember that I stepped on her the first time we were on the course and that, uh, probably contributed to a certain lack of enthusiasm.


----------



## Laurelin

I too am jealous of your setup! O looks great!

How big was the MAS? I meet some that make me drool but a lot are very low drive and also put together pretty poorly (heavy for their height with straight straight rears). The ones I like I LOVE and if I could clone that would for sure be Nextdog. I keep going back and forth on them though. The sports shelties I meet have way more drive than even the driviest MAS and they're also put together much better. But I like the look of MAS and their facial expression better. I also like the lack of such a big ruff of hair. And I like aussie goofiness vs sheltie stoicism (although my friend has one goofy goofy sheltie boy). Meh I will never decide till I get the dang dog.

As far as her being slow, it could be heat for sure. I know when the temp spikes suddenly a lot of dogs tire out that normally don't. The first couple weeks especially and then they adjust some. The first day it was over 80 was definitely the worst for us just because it had gone up like 30-35 degrees in a couple days time. 

It's been pushing 100 here so I've made sure to keep sessions short and sweet. And also bring plenty of water both to drink and douse the dog in. We also bring fans and a cooling mat that really does help. I got a ruffwear cooling coat too but haven't tried it in agility yet.


----------



## MrsBoats

Thanks you guys! He's starting to understand the game now that he's 2.5 years old. I trying to get more mileage on him and get more of a feel for how he reads cues and how our timing is going to work out. Now that work is leveling off, I can get back to training regularly with him. Lars sprained his foot about a month ago chasing balls in the yard...and he's off the training roster for the meantime. (He actually has an appointment for an x-ray to make sure there's nothing like a bone chip in there because he keeps reinjuring the foot. I have a feeling we haven't been as diligent with strict rest as we should have been and I think he'll have to do some PT and rehab for the rest of the summer. That's why you hear a pissed off Lars in the background...he's on the deck in an x-pen.) So, I have been able to truly focus on Ocean which I think we both need. I'm having a lot of fun with O because he operates so much differently than Lars. With Ocean, a mistake is a mistake and he really wants to be a team player and he actually cares about being a team player. He's not a megalomaniac like someone else where we constantly fight for who's really driving the agility team bus. Ocean is actually kind of refreshing to work with. 

Yeah, agility land was formally a scrubby wooded waste land on our property that when we moved in 10 years ago had no purpose. We just dumped our leaves in there. When I got Lars and I started to collect equipment...we figured out that's where all of my dog training stuff was going to live. This is what it used to look like:









That huge dark area behind my chain saw wielding husband is where agility land now sits. MrBoats worked for a landscape company that had all sorts of heavy equipment and over a couple of weekends of bringing excavators home, we cleared it. MrBoats is a turf grass manager and lawn renovations is one of his specialties...so he was able to easily get grass to work back there. I think he used a type of grass meant for athletic fields. The guys have a huge area to run and play now and I just love having that space for both obedience and agility. 



CptJack said:


> O looks gorgeous. I'm also jealous as heck of your agility set up!
> 
> I'm sitting here contemplating Kylie's... apathy and lethargy at agility tonight and I really, really think I 'burned' jumps and tunnels for her. She was still pretty decent at contact obstacles tonight, and she's still getting a reward at the bottom of those. We've lost since stopped rewarding for jumps and tunnels and her enthusiasm there is just gone. I'm going to work on it some at home, since I have the food and obstacles to do that - and since home is where and how I primarily burned those, I think, but I'm also going to pop off an email to Andrea and ask about actually stopping and rewarding her some during class. There are four people in that class, it's not like we don't have time. And it's not going to take up any more time than her being as sluggish and unenthusiastic as she was tonight, anyway.


That is actually a common thing that people do...they heavily reinforce things like contacts, weaves, and table. But they forget to reinforce the "easy" things like jumps and tunnels. A lot of people do that! One trainer I've worked with had a saying about reinforcement...she called it making deposits in your dog's "cookie bank." When you're in class or at a trial and you ask your dog to perform without regular reinforcement, you're making withdrawals from your dog's account. If you make way too many withdrawals from that account, you'll end up with a negative balance and a negative dog. So, when you're training on your own...you have to make regular deposits in the cookie bank account (and that can be both/either food or play rewards) for correctly executed performances. Most people have healthy bank accounts with contacts and weaves and other more challenging things...but they have low account balances on things we can take for granted like tunnels and jumps. When I'm training at home...I really do consider what I'm doing with the guys is making enough deposits in their reward bank account...those healthy balances will carry me into the ring. After a show where I make a bunch of withdrawals, I go back to building the reward balance in my backyard or at run thrus. You could see me building up my cookie balance with that a-frame contact last night.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> How big was the MAS?


Um. About sheltie sized? Taller than Kylie by probably a little bit, so about 13-14 inches. It actually looked more like a tiny border collie than a MAS, to be honest, and not just because it had a tail. It wasn't super high drive, but it was fast, attentive, and super-duper sweet. The border collie just... I like a lot of border collies we work with, but the one in this class is a flyball dog and he is INSANE. Like really, really good agility dog? But I'm really not sure I could live with that dog in my house. 

I KNOW the heat has something to do with it, and we took a cooling mat for the dog not working and lots of water, there was even a kiddie pool out the dogs periodically jumped in so they stayed wet down. It was crazy hot in there, though for her class we got to open up the doors which helped a lot to keep things from being nut. I don't think the hour wait while Bug had her class or the fact that class wasn't over until after 9 p.m helped her a bit, either. I'm pretty sure there's also a 'cookie bank' issue, like MrsBoats said, too. I'm REALLY REALLY RELIEVED that this is something other people do, though, because no one likes being boneheaded alone. I'll get her set up a few days this week and just reward the heck out of her to build some value back into the things. I don't know what happened to my brain with that one besides 'hey, she knows it' and getting caught up in focusing on other stuff and just sort of dismissing them from my mental map as something important. We'll see what happens, I guess.


----------



## Laurelin

There were some awesome MAS at the trial 2 weekends ago. The nice ones are SUPER fun. There was a red tri boy puppy whom I would steal in an instant. He was around 15" and just plain perfect. 

My problem with BCs is every one I meet that I adore is a rescue with unknown origins. It never fails that I find a nice, sane, mid level kind of BC and it's off of craigslist or from the local BC rescue. So I think if I get one I'm going to rescue.


----------



## LoMD13

Lola had about a whole month of agility owes a while back-- trudging along, walking it but it was like pulling teeth the whole way. 

I changed up my entire approach, started using different toys and treats that she's never seen before, and I started being more excitable myself and rewarding her throughout the course. Seems to be working! She's hasn't had an off week in a pretty long time.


----------



## MrsBoats

CptJack said:


> I KNOW the heat has something to do with it, and we took a cooling mat for the dog not working and lots of water, there was even a kiddie pool out the dogs periodically jumped in so they stayed wet down. It was crazy hot in there, though for her class we got to open up the doors which helped a lot to keep things from being nut. I don't think the hour wait while Bug had her class or the fact that class wasn't over until after 9 p.m helped her a bit, either. I'm pretty sure there's also a 'cookie bank' issue, like MrsBoats said, too. I'm REALLY REALLY RELIEVED that this is something other people do, though, because no one likes being boneheaded alone. I'll get her set up a few days this week and just reward the heck out of her to build some value back into the things. I don't know what happened to my brain with that one besides 'hey, she knows it' and getting caught up in focusing on other stuff and just sort of dismissing them from my mental map as something important. We'll see what happens, I guess.


A lot of dogs crash and burn in the heat of summer. My friend with the pittie pretty much stops agility classes and shows unless they are in AC for Tillie. Tillie doesn't want to hear it when the temps get over 85. Sometimes she'll work in agility land here if it's evening and the sun has gone down enough there it's back in the 70s and sometimes she won't. I'm lucky the guys love to work enough the heat usually isn't a factor for them. I hate the heat...so I won't train myself if it's hot and muggy like today. Today will be a good beach day for O instead. 

Don't beat yourself up too much about forgetting to do stuff in agility...as a green and novice handler, there is just so much to know and worry about on it's own. The learning curve for agility with a new handler is about 2 year before you start to feel comfortable with what your job is. After that 2 year mark...things become more second nature than having to consciously think about where and what you're doing. It's then when you can start to fine tune your training with your dog. Ocean has been worlds easier to train in agility this time around as "the next dog" than me bumbling my way through learning agility with Lars. Be kind to yourself (and any of you who are reading this and are also new) because there is a ton of info you have to digest before you're really comfortable with everything the sport of agility throws at you.


----------



## CptJack

Every time I try to answer this thread my internet or electricity goes out, so let's try this one more time (and probably more briefly).

-I go back and forth on BCs a lot. They're by far the easiest dog for me to find here, of the ones I'm interested in. I've met some I love and want to steal, some I like watching play agility but know I would not be able to live with, and some I outright recoil in horror from. I want one, but I want the RIGHT one. The ones I've met that I've liked most are coming from the local farmers breeding their own stock dogs, so if I do get one it's likely to be either from there, or a BC or BC mix from rescue or craigslist. I'm pretty aware that buying from somebody who isn't titling their dogs is debatable for a lot of people but I'll take doing the actual job over titles, anyway. 

-Kylie is... disinclined to play with toys outside the house. She'll PLAY at agility, but not with toys. I'm working on it and will continue to do so, but she's pretty weird about it. Keeping food treats mixed up and high value definitely helps, though. 

-I should have skipped this session altogether, to be honest. I definitely shouldn't have signed up for two classes back to back. I wasn't thinking about how hot it was going to be, and that was a huge, huge mistake. Pretty sure in the future I'm going to be skipping summer classes in the future, and definitely never, ever, doing two classes in the middle of summer. It's just stinking hot and miserable for everybody. I also really, really appreciate the reminder to take it easy on myself. At this point we have people who have been competing for a while, and one other green handler... with an experienced dog. I feel like I'm floundering a LOT.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> -Kylie is... disinclined to play with toys outside the house. She'll PLAY at agility, but not with toys. I'm working on it and will continue to do so, but she's pretty weird about it. Keeping food treats mixed up and high value definitely helps, though.
> 
> -I should have skipped this session altogether, to be honest. I definitely shouldn't have signed up for two classes back to back. I wasn't thinking about how hot it was going to be, and that was a huge, huge mistake. Pretty sure in the future I'm going to be skipping summer classes in the future, and definitely never, ever, doing two classes in the middle of summer. It's just stinking hot and miserable for everybody. I also really, really appreciate the reminder to take it easy on myself. At this point we have people who have been competing for a while, and one other green handler... with an experienced dog. I feel like I'm floundering a LOT.


That was one of my big issues with Lola- she was crazy toy motivated, but not outside of the house. Took me a good year to figure out that the problem was the TYPE of toy I was trying to get her to use and that she really likes brand new toys best lol. So if I bring one of her favorite toys from home, she'll look at me like I'm an idiot for ever thinking she'd want such a thing. The only toys she'll work for are tiny tiny little squeaky balls, a little squeaky cat toy mouse made out of real rabbit fur, and a ball that opens up to treats. If I use a squeaky ball in class, I have to put it away for a few weeks. The treat ball has been a huge success for 2 weeks and counting now. 

Definitely go easy on yourself! You just started and your doing awesome! Me and Lola have been going at it for 2 years and we still make mistakes constantly.


----------



## CptJack

I will try the brand new toy. I've always played the 'do you like this?' game before thinking about taking a toy -she can be fairly picky - but clearly that wasn't making her want to play with toys out and about, so time to switch it up.

I set up the little jump (it's seriously not really even a jump - it's 8" high, but it doesn't have any vertical bars, and it's more narrow than the real jumps) in the dining room after working with Bug on targeting. We played, I left it there, and every time she CHOSE to go over the jump in the course of our play she got food and praise and excitement and silliness from me. It took about a whole minute before she was following direction to go over from different sides, different angles, or around the backside, wagging and bouncing and barking all the while. 

Then I put it away. I'll play with her some more tomorrow, maybe think about trying it outside over the weekend. It won't hurt anything, there DEFINITELY needs to be more value built into the jumps and tunnels regardless, but if she blows me off the first time we try this outside I'm going to assume heat and just keep playing what we can, inside. She's little and we have a huge kitchen/dining room. It'll get her through to cooler weather in the fall. (I'm not dropping the class, but my expectations should maybe come down.)


----------



## Sibe

What word do people use for the back side of a jump? We're seeing back sides more and having a word for it is going to be helpful. I've been saying "Push" because she already has a Back (walk backward), DigDigDig (dig a hole), Around, and other words most people seem to be using.

Also our instructor said we're going to start doing directionals. Nali knows gee and haw for mushing, should I use those for her right and left words or use different words.. like right and left?


----------



## Kyllobernese

You can use any word you want in Agility. I use "push" for the far side of a jump, I use "over" for the A-frame and "jump" for the jumps and "0ut" to send to a far-away object like in Gamblers.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> I will try the brand new toy. I've always played the 'do you like this?' game before thinking about taking a toy -she can be fairly picky - but clearly that wasn't making her want to play with toys out and about, so time to switch it up.
> 
> I set up the little jump (it's seriously not really even a jump - it's 8" high, but it doesn't have any vertical bars, and it's more narrow than the real jumps) in the dining room after working with Bug on targeting. We played, I left it there, and every time she CHOSE to go over the jump in the course of our play she got food and praise and excitement and silliness from me. It took about a whole minute before she was following direction to go over from different sides, different angles, or around the backside, wagging and bouncing and barking all the while.
> 
> Then I put it away. I'll play with her some more tomorrow, maybe think about trying it outside over the weekend. It won't hurt anything, there DEFINITELY needs to be more value built into the jumps and tunnels regardless, but if she blows me off the first time we try this outside I'm going to assume heat and just keep playing what we can, inside. She's little and we have a huge kitchen/dining room. It'll get her through to cooler weather in the fall. (I'm not dropping the class, but my expectations should maybe come down.)


With Lola, If I take out the toy too soon before a run- she gets bored with it. What I've been doing is I take it out and give her a glimpse of it and put it behind my back because that always frustrates her in a good way. Then we just take off. 

We had our first hot muggy class today too and it didn't go that swimmingly either. Lola was fast, driven and enthusiastic--which. Is a big change from last summer. But she also had the attention span of a worm and left the ring to go visiting TWICE. She never has done that! So 2 steps forward one step back.


----------



## CptJack

I'm definitely going to try bringing a brand new stuffed toy along and seeing if that makes her more inclined to play with me. I'm also going to have to up my energy, because I had *such* a headache, and was so aggravated and hot that I wasn't all there, either. The instructor did at one point have us re-do something with different handling when Kylie blew past me. After the second time Kylie took the wrong course the instructor stopped and said "...No. She just thinks you're handling is wrong...." So there was that. Sadly, I count that as some kind of positive right now.

Seriously, seriously, thinking about dropping back to Beginners with her for my next class. Also Seriously considering laying off agility for that 3 month break and just taking Thud to obedience. Dunno, yet. We'll see how I feel about it when I get there and how she does over the next 6 classes. I'm probably NOT going to go on with Bug, but she's having a good time, anyway. Maybe ONE more.

I also meant to take better notes/record more of what is going on on Bug's foundation class for other people following along at home/who might be new to agility and interested.

Class one stuff:
Targeting (running to food on a plastic lid)
Recalling to the indicated side, and catching the dog if it tries to cross behind you.
Marker words, if the dog doesn't already have one.
"Watch me", if the dog doesn't already have it.


----------



## MrsBoats

Messed around with jumps in a straight line and weave poles after a tunnel for O. Weaves after a tunnel is tricky for the freight train...because that means he has to decelerate and collect his stride to get the entrance. My camera battery died before we were really done...but it got some good stuff. Ocean crushed those 12 poles like a pro! And...right before the camera cut out...he really did crush a weave pole (hence why I made them more or less "break away") and Lars voices his approval from an x-pen. The Hulk-smash is strong in this one says Jedi master Lars...and this pleases him. LOL


----------



## CptJack

Bug's Foundation's class:
Introduction to 2o2o contacts (letting the dog jump from table to a-frame then walk down to the correct position to take food off the target at the bottom).
Introduction of 'get out' (send out around buckets/cones).
Combining a restrained recall to sending the dog to the target.

Bug had fun. I'm not convinced she knows what's actually going on but there's people and food and therefore she's a happy dog. We were down FOUR people from the first class, noise level was better, and I wanted to murder people a lot less. More pleasant all around. People think she's magic because she's deaf which bemuses me, but I'll take what I can get.

Kylie's Class:
We did a drive building exercise with tossing toys as they were coming out of the (straight) tunnel. 
Started to introduce serpentine jumps. 
Started fading the target on contact obstacles.
Did a sequence with front, blind and then rear crosses. 

She was lots, *lots* more enthusiastic for the majority of class. She worked for the toy in drive building exactly twice. After that, I had to run and get insane with her on the other end, but it worked and she was happy and diving into that tunnel. The serpentine jump introduction was okay. She sucked off toward the A-frame once but otherwise did okay and was happy. A-frame was the A-frame and is the best thing in the WORLD, always. By the time we were doing the sequences with different crosses, she was flagging pretty hard because of the heat. I have no idea what I'm doing with the rear cross and neither does she, but I'm pretty sure we'll figure it out, but the front and blind were fine.

I will say that the FIRST thing to go when Kylie gets worn out toward the end of that hour is her willingness to do jumps. She'll still hit the tunnel and contacts hard, she'll still run, but she does NOT want to jump. I'll keep working on that at home, but I honestly think that the lack of happy and fun from her is just 99% heat induced. She gets really hot, she gets really tired and she just wants to quit. Given that there were only three dogs in the class and according to my pedometer I ran 3 miles WITHOUT obstacles, I'm not inclined to blame her too much for that. She walked into the building bouncing and spinning and barking and having the time of her life. By the end she lay down, I got complimented on her pretty down stay while I was across the building retrieving her leash, and I had to admit it wasn't a down stay: it was me telling her to lie down and her saying 'I AM STAYING".' She'd earned it by then.


----------



## Kathyy

3 miles? Wow, you work a lot harder in class than I do! Glad she is feeling better about agility again.

I just got home from a week away from my Ginger girl and first thing she did was whine to go out and play agility. Not 90*F here by a long shot. She didn't miss me, she missed me, cheese and jumptunnelweave!


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have been working on the weaves with Lucy. The Instructor in our classes last fall had us doing the channel method but we were not running with the dogs, just sending them down them to a target. We did that the whole time without really closing them up much or running with the dog. I am now working on running with her on both sides and gradually bringing them together as I have since learned via the internet from a well-known trainer that you should start closing the weaves up fairly soon and not do the channel for very long or the dog thinks the object is to just run in a straight line. We have also made some guides (can't remember what they are called) that keep them from ducking out on the weaves at my sisters as they are working good for her Rat Terrier.


----------



## CptJack

Actually, I had the thing on kilometers so more like 1.8 miles (whoops). Mostly though I suspect it came from the drive building thing. Other dogs chased toys. Kylie chased ME. 

I have to say, though, all this running on sand is getting me in shape and giving me pretty cool legs.


----------



## CptJack

...I remember somebody mentioning something about tug/soft toys you can put food in. I can't find the post and I'm not having much luck searching. Can somebody help me out, here?


----------



## MrsBoats

Here you go!

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3098&ParentCat=30

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=22


----------



## kadylady

Clean Run has a bunch of tug toys with pockets for food. Only one that I have experience with is the Rip N Tug Barbell which I'm not sure how much I like yet, have only had it a couple months. I think I would like the ball only version better as Zoey is not really interested in tugging on it, she just chases it down and then waits for me to get the food out, so the ball would be better to roll I think. Luke on the other hand will tug with it so... I've thought about trying one of the fur tugs with pockets but I think for Zoey, who doesn't have a lot of tug drive yet, the food just distracts from the tugging. It does seem to excite Luke though, who already has much more tug drive to begin with.


----------



## MrsBoats

I was going to say....if you need anything that has to do with agility or agility training....go to Clean Run. Most likely they'll have it. 

http://www.cleanrun.com/

Their magazine is very well worth it too.


----------



## CptJack

Thanks, guys! Those were what I was looking for.

Kylie actually is pretty fetch crazy and has always been willing to have a good game of tug (though not obsessive about it). She just doesn't seem to be willing to play with things very reliably at agility, yet. The most success I had was last night and it was just tying up some of her treats in a bit of fur, so I think there's something there I can build on to get her playing when we're not at home. 

I'm being sucked into clean run. I actually ordered a leash from them a while back and then just forgot about them.


----------



## kadylady

Love Clean Run and love the magazine! They just recently put a bunch of their 2011 magazines on sale for $1 each so I bought a bunch.


----------



## CptJack

The further down this particular rabbit hole I go, the more I realize:
Kylie is pretty much the best dog EVER to learn this stuff with
and
Next Dog is going to have a far, far easier time with this, because it's handler isn't going to be quite such an idiot.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> The further down this particular rabbit hole I go, the more I realize:
> Kylie is pretty much the best dog EVER to learn this stuff with
> and
> Next Dog is going to have a far, far easier time with this, because it's handler isn't going to be quite such an idiot.


Exact same thoughts over here!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kairi had a fantastic agility class. Only she and 1 other dog made it to class, making it the ideal time to see what I could do with her 100% off leash during our "turn". She had to run quite a few learned obstacles in succession for the first time, and boy did she FLY. I'm amazed at how well she listened to me, even off her leash. We only had one hiccup where she decided to check out the big fan keeping the building cool. 

I knew I had a fast and eager dog, but that last class really showed me what she is made of. I wish I was more advanced as a handler for her, but I know she doesn't care. We are both having so much FUN.


----------



## Kathyy

+2

I hope Ginger will be reaping the benefits. I am a very slow learner but have trained two other dogs. Ginger would have been a much easier first dog to train than Sassy who adored agility but would go zoomy because she adored jumping and climbing and all that. And I wasn't telling her what to do fast enough. I had to cue the next obstacle before her front feet left the ground on the previous one where Max could pull off an obstacle if I cued the next before his rear feet left the ground and Ginger, well she can pull off even faster so my hard won skill in cuing early enough is going to waste these days!


----------



## MrsBoats

For those of you guys who are still learning agility with your first dog....get this book: 

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2717

I didn't get this book until about year 3 into my agility path with Lars. I had a hard time understanding the why's and when's of handling...but Linda Mecklenburg was able to put it into print and my head was able to finally get it. It's a great resource that I refer to constantly even now and it has lots of small sequences devoted to specific handling moves. She has tons of diagrams of where you should be and when in relation to your dog is in the sequence. 

It's 40 bucks and totally worth it.

Ocean is my "next dog" and yes...it is so much easier and the process goes so much faster. I still make mistakes with him...and some of them are the same ones I've made with Lars. But, playing in agility is way less frustrating with him and I'm having a great time this time around.


----------



## CptJack

I am definitely going to be placing a fairly hefty order with them the first of next month - it's my birthday, I figure I'm allowed. For now, though, I rounded up a couple of old RX pill bottles and filled them full of holes. If NOTHING ELSE I will be able to throw food in front of her next week ;-)

I think I'm also going to try reserving the really high value food treats for things she's less enthusiastic about - like jumps. We'll see. A lot of this with her is just trial and error for me. She's perfectly capable of being a speed demon and loves to run and play - and fetch and tug. I just need to get through to her that it's what I WANT in agility, as opposed to careful deliberation and sticking close.


----------



## Laurelin

We've had 3 really great practices this last week. Nothing too notable but she did her weaves every time first time today! And my trainer was impressed because she was almost fast. Still not as fast as she has been at home but still....

We are struggling with the right side weave entrances but we got some good advice after class today on working that side. We've had to do weaves TOTALLY different for her than any other dog my trainer has ever trained. But she's getting somewhere and as my trainer pointed out, I AM trying to teach an old dog new tricks and we should be proud of all she's accomplished at such an age.

The other parts of our runs were overall very good. We did some novice courses and those were flawless. We did one twisty turny thing where I had to run backsides of everything and that was a disaster. She likes to know where I am and we've not practiced that before so she'd go halfway then pop out thinking I was going doing other stuff without her. So we need to work on that. But other than that it was great. I've been told I need to enter her in novice everything now that she weaves. 

Our TDAA ring rental went AWESOME. She did great and was fast and everything.

I have the best learner's dog ever though really. I love her a lot. Who'd have thunk that me and my 8 year old 'too old for agility' dog would get this far. She's so much fun. 

Ok I'll stop bragging on her.


----------



## Laurelin

Also, Summer went flying off course once to go visit a classmate that was kneeling on the ground about 8 feet away from a jump. AND I called her and she turned right around and came flying back to me. She was only a foot or so away from him too! I was shocked she called back without jumping in his lap!


----------



## sassafras

Crosses are mildly confusing to me, but I think I'm getting the hang of them. The instructor said we can also learn a blind cross now if we want to, or later and I was like H*LL NO THE FEWER I NEED TO LEARN RIGHT NOW THE BETTER.

Also, during our initial steps just starting to teach a back cross, when Squash is on my left he keeps confusing me luring him with my left hand for my hand signal for a left pivot... then, since he's now essentially standing in front of me he decides to throw in a backwards leg weave for good measure Every. Single Time. lol. (Not looking for advice, we'll get it, but I just think it's funny. Or at least I will until he trips and kills me.)


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> Crosses are mildly confusing to me, but I think I'm getting the hang of them. The instructor said we can also learn a blind cross now if we want to, or later and I was like H*LL NO THE FEWER I NEED TO LEARN RIGHT NOW THE BETTER.
> 
> Also, during our initial steps just starting to teach a back cross, when Squash is on my left he keeps confusing me luring him with my left hand for my hand signal for a left pivot... then, since he's now essentially standing in front of me he decides to throw in a backwards leg weave for good measure Every. Single Time. lol. (Not looking for advice, we'll get it, but I just think it's funny. Or at least I will until he trips and kills me.)



I don't know if you're doing these 'flat' or not, but crosses didn't make a LICK of sense to me until we started using them with equipment. Doing them around a corner or in the middle of the room I just... had no idea what the heck we were doing.

I STILL don't understand rear crosses, or what's supposed to be happening there.


----------



## sassafras

We're using a cone for the dogs to go around to initially learn the basics of them, and then adding some very simple equipment to help them make more sense. For example, tonight we used two tunnels curved towards each other to practice front crosses in kind of a figure 8 from tunnel to tunnel.


ETA: So for the rear cross, we're standing next to a cone with the dog between us and the cone initially, then lure them away with one hand, then turn as they go around the cone and reward with the other hand, if that makes sense. And when I do that with him starting on my left, the luring looks very much like my hand signal for the left pivot, so it's understandable. I'm just going to have to either tweak the lure or use a targeting stick or get it on a verbal cue quickly or something. 

It's just so ridiculous to have this dog pivoting and then backwards weaving like... every time.


----------



## Laurelin

Last week I was asking my trainer what a blind cross was because I didn't know. She replied 'You do them all the time!'

Yeah I don't know what things are called. Rear cross, blind cross, etc. I have no idea what the difference is but apparently what I do works so.... 

I had to ask again what the difference was when I tried rear crossing a tunnel and then my trainer suggested a blind cross and I was like 'I thought I just did a blind cross' 'No, you rear crossed' 'Oh...'


----------



## Kathyy

Some of it is semantics. One can also rear/front/blind cross before or after an obstacle. All that helps plan your moves in a sequence. Personally I just want to do #1, then #2, then #3. Often that is a big enough challenge for me.

I was away from home for a week and after being home for a couple hours had a whiny dog. Outside to do a few go outs and she was happy. Today I did a real work out. Cut a stick of cheese into about 50 [counted as I cut] coin shaped bits I can toss and she can find in the grass and weeds I call a lawn. Never got that many bits from a stick before, must have had a sharper paring knife. First set up 2 poles and 2 jumps to work on various entries then turned it into a serpentine with a tunnel at the far end then worked on contacts more for me than her. I am supposed to feed her when she is 2O2O then release her and toss a treat. I cannot remember to release and treat if I have already been feeding at the contact. Tried to do between 1 and 5 obstacles per treat. I never remember to time the sessions, I suspect less than 10 minutes which includes setting up the sequences. 

A pill bottle is a great idea! I have been tossing a half gone still wrapped cheese stick when Ginger needs a super duper reward and so far she hasn't run off with it but something I must open for her would be much better. I have stuffable tugs but for some reason it seems too clunky for the very short sequences we are doing and I usually give treats in the middle of sequences anyway in class.


----------



## CptJack

Front cross - you ahead of the dog, turn toward your dog to keep your eyes on the dog.
Blind cross - you ahead of your dog, dash ahead to get on the other side, turn your back on the dog and pray.
Rear Cross - you BEHIND the dog.

...Maybe.

Watching youtube vids, I think I understand rear crosses. I also think that Kylie doesn't move far enough ahead of me for rear-crosses to be effective and that's why what I'm actually doing is a weird little dance to avoid stepping on her.

The pill bottle thing is working, by the way, at least in the house. She will at the very least chase after it like a mad thing and wait for me to open it. We'll see how it goes in class this coming week.


----------



## MrsBoats

Basically a cross is done with the idea of your change the arm the dog is following...you are changing the direction you are traveling on. Rear crosses are done when you need to turn and your dog is in front of you. That's why I tend to do more rear crosses on a course than FC because my dogs are usually ahead of me. You can't do a rear cross when you are ahead of your dog...that's where fronts and blinds come in. Blinds are used to turn/change direction and you want your dog to keep accelerating. Front crosses are used with turns you want your dog to decelerate/collect. I'm on my phone typing at the moment and that is why I'm being brief. 

Seriously...if crosses are hard to understand, get that book I posted a couple of posts back. She writes about handling in a way that is easier to understand.


----------



## sassafras

It's not the way it's explained, it's the way my mind works. I am not a spatial relationship thinker at all. Not even a little bit.


----------



## MrsBoats

With more mileage and screwing around with handling at home and seeing how different things make your dogs do different things...that helps make it more clear. I do ____ and my dog reacts by doing _____ will help you understand. It's funny...my agility BFF is a veterinarian too and it took her a long time to wrap her head around what she has actually doing with different handling moves. My minds works in a similar way to hers (and probably yours too) and it took me a long time to understand what I was doing. Like I said...it takes a good two years as a learning curve with handling for someone to feel comfortable with understanding what and why you do things to direct your dog.

Another thing I can recommend for agility newbies...is go to trials and watch handlers in the higher level classes. The more you see agility done and done right...you'll see why something works and why other things don't. Watch handlers with dogs with similar drive and speed as yours and see how they handle. I have learned so much by watching people who own high drive, big and heavier build dogs. The more you do that...you'll start to see errors in handling. Like you'll see when a handler makes a goof and sends their dog to an off course obstacle...or you'll see someone crowding their dog or if they drop their hand and stop supporting a jump where the dog runs past. Find trials local to you or watch agility trial videos on youtube. The more you watch...the better you'll understand the logic behind handling. I would rather watch a class at a trial...because you get to see a 100 people handle the same course and you can really learn from that.


----------



## Laurelin

My problem isn't doing crosses but rather knowing what they're called and matching the right name with the right cross. Apparently I actually perform things well and can change many of my mistakes in my runs into actual handling 'things' but.... it's unintentional. I mostly do things on the fly.

Summer and I mostly front or blind cross. We don't rear cross so much since I'm faster than she is (as my trainer says, Summer is fast but I am just as fast). Last week we had a sequence where I needed to flip her to the right hand from the left and I got so caught up in getting her to do one handling thing I ended up on the right longer than I meant to so we did a beautiful rear cross that I got complimented on. But totally unintentional.

Though last night I tried running a sequence on the left hand that should have been on the right (because weaves) and ended up SOL at a certain point and we ran into each other. Luckily she avoids my feet very well.


----------



## CptJack

I am taking Kylie to the vet on Monday and having her thyroid tested and some general blood work done.

It could still just be heat, but the fall off in energy/stamina combined with the fact that she has managed to gain at least some weight and stay fat is making me wonder. I know she's young, maybe she's stealing the cat food somehow (I doubt it), maybe one of the kids is feeding her more or something, but I'm not liking this combination of things much.


----------



## LoMD13

Me and Lola just do front crosses and blinds. A rear cross is a nice tool to have in the box, but we've never really found it necessary. She doesn't like rear crosses at all and it's just pretty low on the totem pole for us.

We had a much better class this week! I couldn't find her treat ball, so I had to take an empty EOS lip balm and stuff that with hot dogs. She's always stealing them on me no matter what I do anyways, so I figured I might as well put it to good use! It was pretty muggy in there and she was fast and peppy for both runs. We had some tricky sequences with lots of backsides, and she focused perfectly, no bolting out of the ring like a man on a mission to say hello to friends who just walked in haha.


----------



## Kathyy

We went in the big dog ring last night to do full height contacts. The only other dog there, the mini Aussie, was such a silly. He was running up and down the full height teeter because he knew he was cute. I tried really hard not to react as he is so insecure and does stuff like this to get attention and avoid doing the exercise as directed. Plus so not safe! Ginger was a bit hesitant about the full teeter and was stopping half way down the down plank, not good. She hasn't a clue how to run a contact without teacher at the other end stopping her. Even watching the mini Aussie do super great contacts didn't sink in. I will have to think on that this next month when I am off on a trip and no classes for either of us. I have just a low table with a dog ramp to practice contacts here, perhaps putting that into sequences will help?

In the baby dog ring we did a 9 obstacle sequence with several off course opportunities and a 270* turn and Ginger nailed it. So I think I will take her to the show and go on Saturday to do the jumpers course. I will tell the 'judge' to time me and whistle me off after the 2 allowed minutes each time so I can work on start line stays and reward after tunnels and such. I hope the baby dog ring will have weaves and low contacts set up to work on as well. And the measuring wicket. It would be so nice to have a dog that stands for the wicket with a strange judge and dogs milling around.

I have been working on Ginger turning away and going out from day one as I detest front crosses. One over/under rotates and does them in the wrong spot and they slow down the dog if you are doing them close in. If the dog has room and understands them then dog will change leads and be fast though. Just the last year of competing with Max my excellent teacher told me to look over my shoulder at where I want the dog to go to orient myself for the turn, works great but you are having to look away from your dog which sure can backfire. I am just starting to be able to do them with Ginger as she is starting to work a few feet away from me.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Crosses had me so confused at first too. In our class we did a lot of pre-equipment cross exercises, then it made more sense once we added in the obstacles. Also, I barely know my left from my right half the time. I'm an idiot.


----------



## So Cavalier

I am the Queen of the rear cross...fast dog, slow handler with a bad knee. I never do blind crosses. I don't like not knowing where my dog is at all times. She is little and I don't want to trip up over her accidentally. She went behind me in a practice sequence the other day at class...really made me feel uncomfortable. When I was learning the basics, the blind cross was not in vogue. It has come back and works for lots of people. Just not me.


----------



## Kathyy

I loved blind crosses running old Sassy. She knew where she was going and had a blast. I did have to whip my head around though as she could disconnect in a nanosecond. Max hadn't a clue and they were consisted poor handling during most of his agility career. It is hard enough seeing Ginger in the first place let alone doing my feeble version of running on a given path without running into anything and whipping my head around. Maybe, will start trying it on tunnels at least.

Today is the big day - first show and go ever for newbie Ginger. Taking loads of treats, shade, chair, xpen and all that with me. Looking at the email there is also going to be a tunnelers course and the baby ring will be open. So excited!


----------



## kadylady

Rear crosses used to be my default move with Zoey, she got them, I got them and we did them great together. As I started trialing though I realized that the rear cross in many places was just too much disconnect for us at this stage. I've found that the front crosses help us stay better connected through a course since I'm changing direction in front of her rather than behind her. It is nice to know though that if I can't make it to a front in time I can fall back on a rear cross. The blinds are still newer to us but we have had pretty good success with them so far, she reads them really well even when I don't execute them so well. 

We finally got back to the club for some practice this morning after what feels like FOREVER! (I've been on vacation plus my class got canceled this term). She did really well. It was hot and I had a little trouble motivating her our first time on the floor but the second and third times I kept switching it up between toy and treats and kept it faster paced but shorter time and she responded much more enthusiastically. She's been committing to the tunnels much better lately which makes me super happy. 

Next trial in 2 weeks...eeek!!


----------



## CoverTune

I don't have the video on YouTube just yet, BUT… Corona got her first Q!!! It was a Starters Jumpers class, which we'd attempted 5 times previously, and he'd never done really badly at.. it was always just one little mistake each time, but finally it all came together. It was a stinkin' hot day, so we weren't very fast, but that's ok.

Now, if I can just figure out how to get her over her fear of the teeter… we could actually try competing in Standard classes and MAYBE get a title.


----------



## LoMD13

Good luck Ginger and Zoey!!

We don't have classes for a few weeks, which isn't really a bad thing because boy is it hot out there. We've mostly just been playing around in the backyard at night-- especially working on weaves on the right and weave entries. 
]


----------



## CptJack

Bug's Class: 
More get out work.
Fast Down.
Distraction recall games. (Past other dogs, through people, past food).


Kylie's class:
Table and teeter work (individually and then in sequences). It's still propped up on one end, but we're no longer slowing the descent or having a target at the bottom. Tonight was the first time she's brought it down on her own, at full speed. SHE LOVED IT. Surprised the heck out of me. 

More rear cross stuff, this time with an explanation (instructor realized that, no, I hadn't heard that lecture yet and was *lost*). 

Kylie and I are going to do more choose to jump exercises and games to keep building value in jumps. I cracked up a little bit because the instructor kind of presented it to me this week with wording that I used in a previous post. She gets hot, she gets tired, she doesn't really value the jumps so they're the first thing to go. That said, we had a LOT more enthusiasm and energy overall, she's mostly back in her groove, and the prescription pill bottle stuffed with liver worked great as something to throw out ahead of her. 

I'm feeling way less discouraged with her all around. She's still hot and flags toward the end of class, but she's having a lot more fun again, with a lot less cheerleading from me.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh man, we had a great practice today. 

She did 12 poles after only ever doing 6. First try hit the entrance and got them ALL. I was shocked.

I have converted my trainer who had said forever that she'd only ever have BCs to 'I think I would like to get a papillon one day' She told me Summer is just a really really good dog. Not that I didn't know that but it's awesome to have other people see how special she is too. 

Summer was fast and awesome and she is just so much fun to run.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Go Summer! If I ever need a little dog, Paps are first on my list!

Just gotta say I'm so happy about these classes. It might just be Kairi's age on top of her training during class, but our reactivity has gone down considerably in just a month. She really enjoys her classes and barely needs rewarded. I'm so proud of her and I am officially ADDICTED.


----------



## Kayota

if my new jobs work out i may start going back to agility soon


----------



## elrohwen

A couple months ago I set up a long fenced area in one of our fields, and built some jumps. My goal was to get Watson comfortable with jumping, because in classes he was never able to get over 12" (and he was most comfortable at 8"). I think he just had trouble seeing distances and needed focused work on jumping. I watched Susan Salo's videos and we've been working on her exercises most weekends for a few minutes at a time. Here's a picture of where he is now:









So much happy! He absolutely loves jumping now. I haven't added in any handling stuff, and we haven't been in an actual class for a while, but for now he's loving the grids and exercises and it's something fun my husband and I can do with him (and it tires him out running back and forth). I still can't believe he's able to focus outside and that he's so into the game. I'm still working on increasing height gradually, staying around 12" average (he's done a few at 16" now which he never would have done in class). The next step is to mix things up a bit since he's just running back and forth between me and my husband and it's a little too patterned. My training time is so limited now with my work schedule and I'm just happy to do what he enjoys even if we're not progressing much.


----------



## MrsBoats

Watson does look like he's enjoying jumping!!  Yeah!!

O and I did a trial this weekend (and we have two more this month) and he's still figuring out 24" jumps when he's going at full speed. So some bars came down. But...he NAILED weave poles all weekend. Good pieces!! 

Novice JWW - no Q but wicked fast with nice parts. He nailed his weave pole entry! Bad handler - shouting your dog's name on take off for a jump is not a good game plan. LOL I also think his start line stay may end up me leaving him standing...it may be easier for him to get enough lift at the first jump. I need to play with that and see if he likes that better than a sit. 






Novice Std - no Q with the speed demon, but again some good pieces. When he and I get in sync as a team...it's going to be awesome. Come on, O....grow up with your brain because when you do...you will be untouchable on the 24" agility field.


----------



## elrohwen

O is smokin!

His jumping style is hilarious - he throws his head way up in the air and just flies through.

ETA: And off topic, but it amazes me that Lars and Ocean are in the 24" group and Watson will probably measure into the 20" class ... seems like a small jump height difference for dogs who are quite different in size.


----------



## Sibe

Goodness he is fast!

Denali is still out of trialing. She's doing awesome in class and her pad is fine but it's so freakin hot here. Might not trial until fall.


----------



## MrsBoats

elrohwen said:


> O is smokin!
> 
> ETA: And off topic, but it amazes me that Lars and Ocean are in the 24" group and Watson will probably measure into the 20" class ... seems like a small jump height difference for dogs who are quite different in size.


Since both guys are over 22"....that's who jumps 24" in regular classes and 20" in preferred. How tall is Watson now?? O's girlfriend Tillie measures 18" and would have to jump 20" regular....but Julie runs her in preferred and T jumps 16" there.


----------



## elrohwen

MrsBoats said:


> Since both guys are over 22"....that's who jumps 24" in regular classes and 20" in preferred. How tall is Watson now?? O's girlfriend Tillie measures 18" and would have to jump 20" regular....but Julie runs her in preferred and T jumps 16" there.


He's never been officially measured by any organization, but I have him around 20-20.5". That seems way too tall (the Welshie standard say 17-19" for males and I would put him on the tall end of average for the breed). So I dunno. Probably not shorter than 19" even if my measurement is off. 20" jumps seem high! I had them up to 16" this weekend and even that seemed high, but it could be because he only did 8-12" in class and I got used to that.


----------



## CptJack

Bug's class: Front and rear crosses, tunnel.

Kylie: Object discrimination, continuing to build to a full teeter. 

Bug did awesome, and impressed me and everybody else. She really is just fearless and a great little dog.

Kylie... I don't even know. Awesome start (teeter, object discrimination with two tunnels right beside each other, and the first several sequences). Good middle (more sequences, tire jump). Then the last, I don't know, 15 minutes or so of class she just fell apart. She zoomed back and forth in the tunnel without ever coming out but kept peeking out each end, responded to a 'get out' by going 180 degrees to take the jump BEHIND US, ran ALLLLL the way across the barn to jump on the table and generally acted like a really happy cracker jack between successful sequences - and then refused to do ANYTHING AT ALL, and I do mean anything. We actually set her up to do 'tire/table' so she could get rewarded and then let her stop. I could probably have gotten her to keep going, but she would have hated every second of it and me for making her. Not what I want.

We've got a Show and Go on Sunday. I'm not expecting a whole lot, to be honest, even if it's only a total of 10 minutes of field time that we'll get. I just want her to have fun with it, and that is going to be my focus. Playing on the field, maybe doing an obstacle or three. No pressure. Just fun and play and hefty rewards. I don't care if she does NOTHING but play out there.


----------



## MrsBoats

Here are some videos from last night's work with O....flat work and weave poles. I have to work on better rewarding and non rewarding when he taps the uprights. I didn't think of that until I watched the video. I got some great lateral distance on O's poles....I really want him to know that you finish those weave poles no matter where I'm peeling off to.

I started to fall into the trap of fearing O's speed over the weekend at the trial....not running myself in hopes that I can control his speed. Didn't go well. So, I'm doing flat work right now along with courses without jumps so I get more used to running him when he's hauling some butt! With no jumps...I can handle and he can get to understand handling cues without me worrying about the jump bars coming down. Embrace the speed!!!


----------



## CptJack

I am actually going to the show 'n go on Sunday. Emailed back and forth some with the instructor to find out when to get there, how long I should expect to stay and just assorted other nonsense. I'm feeling better informed and on that level way, way less nervous. Having a pretty clear idea of what to expect helps me a ton. Knowing that it's a laid back affair helps, too.

That I don't know what to expect of Kylie at *all* does not. I honestly don't know where her head is at re: agility at any given moment and I HATE that. I don't mean not knowing if she's going to do well or not, that's just having a dog. I mean I don't know if she's going to PLAY or not. There are too many variables right now, and I can't tell if it's heat + time of day + waiting on Bug's class + working WAY above level, or if she just doesn't want to be doing this anymore. I guess to some degree we'll see what happens on Sunday. 

But OOMPH.


----------



## sassafras

Started introductions to teeter and A-frame this week. Squash doesn't care about any old thing.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer's been kind of ho hum about life these last few weeks. I do think it's the heat getting to her. she's not not playing but she was 1 second over time on our courses last week. I did make a bunch of bobbles though but time shouldn't be a problem for us. On the other hand the young aussie was 12 seconds over time so maybe I should cut Summer some slack. On walks she's dragging too and also in rally she's checking out after a few minutes. 

Girl, you are not allowed to get old on me yet!!!!

I can't wait till fall.


----------



## LoMD13

We haven't had an actual class in a few weeks, just been bopping around in the backyard. Mostly working on weaves and wraps, but also just making sure I keep things short, fun and peppy. I have a bad habit of making the sessions just a tad too long and she was extremely slow and mopey in our last trial, so even if we're awful when we start back up in trials in the fall, I want it to be peppy and awful.


----------



## CptJack

Show 'n go today actually *did not* go badly. 

We did 5 runs.

1st run: Standard:
We didn't even try to do the course as it was laid out. We just went out and worked a little on rear crosses and one of the jump sequences.

2nd Run: Novice (1st course):
We... almost got it? I left out a 3 obstacle sequence in the far back corner of the course. Totally my fault, but okay.

3rd Run: Novice (2nd course)
NAILED IT. We skipped weaves of course, because we don't know how to do those, but otherwise we actually got the whole thing. I was very, very pleased.

4th Run: Touch 'n Go. 
Nailed it AGAIN, to my surprise. It was a really twisty course, and Kylie tends not to notice hoops, but she did it and did it well.

5th Run: Would have been Touch 'n Go again. It started raining. She did 8 obstacles then ran off the course to 'daddy' and we left. 

But STILL. I'm all kinds of excited. She was wonderful and I'm proud and happy. There's an actual trial nearby in October. I think I'm going to enter her for at least touch 'n' go just to see what we can do with it. Good experience either way, right? Right. I think she just can't be expected to do the same stuff over and over for an hour without dying of boredom, frustration, and heat. 

I met the NEATEST dog available for adoption there. Looks like a BC/MAS mix or something. Real sweetheart, if shy and pretty fearful. Not one I'm pursuing (Yes, I just decided that) but damn she was nice.

Anyway. I think we can *actually do this*. For real!


----------



## CptJack

Oh oh oh. Almost forgot the *best* part of today:

Kylie took treats from people she's never seen before and let people PET HER. Not only did she let them, she LIKED IT.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Show 'n go today actually *did not* go badly.
> 
> We did 5 runs.
> 
> 1st run: Open:
> We didn't even try to do the course as it was laid out. We just went out and worked a little on rear crosses and one of the jump sequences.
> 
> 2nd Run: Novice (1st course):
> We... almost got it? I left out a 3 obstacle sequence in the far back corner of the course. Totally my fault, but okay.
> 
> 3rd Run: Novice (2nd course)
> NAILED IT. We skipped weaves of course, because we don't know how to do those, but otherwise we actually got the whole thing. I was very, very pleased.
> 
> 4th Run: Touch 'n Go.
> Nailed it AGAIN, to my surprise. It was a really twisty course, and Kylie tends not to notice hoops, but she did it and did it well.
> 
> 5th Run: Would have been Touch 'n Go again. It started raining. She did 8 obstacles then ran off the course to 'daddy' and we left.
> 
> But STILL. I'm all kinds of excited. She was wonderful and I'm proud and happy. There's an actual trial nearby in October. I think I'm going to enter her for at least touch 'n' go just to see what we can do with it. Good experience either way, right? Right. I think she just can't be expected to do the same stuff over and over for an hour without dying of boredom, frustration, and heat.
> 
> I met the NEATEST dog available for adoption there. Looks like a BC/MAS mix or something. Real sweetheart, if shy and pretty fearful. Not one I'm pursuing (Yes, I just decided that) but damn she was nice.
> 
> Anyway. I think we can *actually do this*. For real!


That sounds like a lot of fun! You go Kylie! 

I'm currently going through agility withdrawal, thanks to Kairi's spay. I'll be off the next 2 weeks of class. Bleh. She's crazy bored too.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> That sounds like a lot of fun! You go Kylie!
> 
> I'm currently going through agility withdrawal, thanks to Kairi's spay. I'll be off the next 2 weeks of class. Bleh. She's crazy bored too.


Man, Kylie was a NIGHTMARE when she got spayed and she was only 5-6 months old or something and hadn't really started doing anything. You've both got my sympathy. 

We did have fun. We had SO much fun. I really got a chance to look at how far she's come - she's gone from wanting to stick close to me at moving at a trot to DIVING into the obstacles, running full out, moving ahead of me, picking up rear crosses and what's happening with them (and that was introduced < 2 weeks ago). Her biggest handicap really is me. 

And I really can't get over how much more confident agility has made her, in general. Letting people feed her and PET HER? FETCHING and TUGGING in public? Never, ever, something I would have predicted her doing in a million years. I want more show 'n' goes. I'll settle for the trial in October (I'm not ready to start traveling much for them). I really, really do not want to take the fall off and hope there is SOME kind of class I can stick her in.

I never want to stop doing this.

(And as an aside, Andrea was right. Except the ring runners who were also playing or people with multiple dogs and no one to leave them with, the only dog crated was a dog aggressive one. It wasn't a real trial, though, and think there were only about 20 dogs there, and the whole thing only ran from 8 to about 1:30 It was SO casual all around, though.)


----------



## kadylady

Zoey got her AKC Novice JWW title this weekend!!!!

Fantastic weekend. So much good stuff. Saturday, Standard run we almost perfect, except she wouldn't do that tire. The course started with the tire and I've had issues with her starting with the tire before. Also the scribe/timer people were sitting directly behind us and that added a little stress to the situation. Once we got through there though she did everything great, hit all her contacts, drove to the tunnel, no jumping off the table, had to redo the weaves once. JWW...the only critque I could find was she was a bit slugglish and slow, we finished like half a second under course time. But we stayed connected, she nailed her weaves. And we got the final Q for our Novice JWW title!!!






I'm positive that the reason for her sluggishness on Saturday was her being sore. In Saturday's video she stutter steps before a couple of the jumps and she NEVER does that. She is such a smooth jumper all the time. After our runs I had her adjusted by the chiropractor that is there and she was out in her pelvis and it was very sore when the chiro worked on her. Sunday, she was way faster and back to jumping normal for her.

Sunday Standard was great, and she was fast!! Good A frame contact, I pulled her out of the weaves by moving laterally too soon. Once we came around the corner on the jump I rear crossed she really picked up the pace down the line and her charging into that tunnel ahead of me was probably the highlight of the weekend. Little boggle at the end of dogwalk as I intended to make it to the other side. She had this look on her face on the table like she was just going to blast off and I was really worried about her flying off the teeter, she held it together and then drove right to the tire! And....then right out of the ring. Whistled off. But oh well, I could have tried calling her sooner but I was afraid I would call her off the tire since we had issues with that the previous day. I was thrilled with her drive and excitement.






Then we had our first Open JWW course. It was so smooth and connected, I'm super proud of my fronts, kicking myself for messing up her weaves, it was all me I distracted her and pulled her out. Then she came down that final line so beautifully! So close to a Q but too far over course time. 






I'm so happy with our performance and teamwork this weekend. So much good stuff happened. My instructor was there all weekend so I got to analyze everything with her and discuss strategies and what to go back and work on and how which was awesome, I love analyzing my runs and discussing handling options. So yeah, much good. I'm pretty much on cloud 9 right now. Thanks for reading, here's a pic with our new title ribbon!!


----------



## MrsBoats

Congrats for everyone for good training, show and gos, and titles!!! 

We trialed again this weekend, Mr. O and me...no Q's but again good pieces and we're getting closer and closer to becoming a good team. 

Novice Standard from Saturday (no video from JWW.) Baby brain is getting more balanced with grown up agility. The bar down was my fault...I was in a bad place after that front cross. The crazy from the tunnel, teeter, and pole was baby brain. I yell HEY...and Lars answers me from his crate with a RAWR!!! Progress...






Novice Standard from Sunday - Got out of my own way, stopped over thinking things, and ran him more like I run Lars. We think he blew that dogwalk because that gaping hole in the wall for the AC looks like a chute and he was going to go charging into it. Silly boy!






And then there was Novice jumpers on Sunday. LOL O yells at me because I made him turn where it was hard for him...but he did it. You can hear it clearly at the jump after the tunnel. GRRRRRRR!!!!! LOL Ocean is like driving a fast piece of German Engineering...think Porche Spyder. He's faster and more athletic than Lars...which is fun! But I just have to go and learn how to drive him. And...I will. One of my friends said to me after he was done ring crewing for this class "When he settles down, Ocean will be one hell of an agility dog!" He's right...O needs to mature and I need to figure out how to drive him like how I drive Lars.


----------



## So Cavalier

Gemma and I completed a three day CPE trial this past weekend. Weather was a bit hot but there was a nice breeze from time to time making it bearable. She did very well considering the warmth. 

She Qd in 12 out of 15 runs with a perfect 5 for 5 on Sunday. Gemma is competing at level 5 and this weekend completed her championships in Standard, Snooker, Jackpot and Fullhouse. She completed her championship in Wildcard at our last trial. (You need 15 level 5 Qs to earn your championship in each category). She got 4 Standard Qs this weekend so we only need two more Standard Qs for her C-ATCH 2! 

I am really proud of her as she will be turning 11 years old in Nov. She is still running well but was a bit slower than usual this weekend. I am hoping it was the heat as she is still pretty zippy in our training classes which are in the evenings when it is cooler. I won't be trialing her any more this summer. We will wait for the cooler weather. At this point, I probably will stop entering her in full days. She still needs to finish up the requirements for Colors and Jumpers to get her championships in those categories. It's getting to the point to start thinking about retiring her from the sport. I will go with my gut. As long as she is having fun, we will continue. So far, she is still having loads of fun. I won't do any more 3 day trials though....

She loves to chill out in her chair at our set up.


----------



## CptJack

Congratulations, guys! I am ridiculously excited for both Zoey and Gemma. I can't imagine how proud you guys are! Ocean just looks great.

(I got an email from my agility instructor telling me she thought we did well at the show and go, especially for the first time out. I teared up. It's going to be one of those days.)


----------



## kadylady

Congrats to everyone this weekend! Love being able to share our progress, struggles and successes here! 

MrsBoats, I so admire both your boys and your handling! 

So Cav, Congrats to you and Gemma! Awesome that she's still going so strong and loving it!

CptJack, Yay for you and Kylie!! Sounds like a day full of so many successes! Zoey is also super shy about people she doesn't know, particularly men, so I totally understand your excitement for that huge success!! We had Zoey taking super stinky fish treats from a guy at the trial this weekend and I was like silently doing a party dance in my head lol So yay Kylie!


----------



## Laurelin

No one is allowed to talk about retiring dogs. Summer will be 11 this year too. I'm in denial.

So far I'm doing what you're doing- if she's loving it we will keep on. She really loves it right now. I keep reminding myself there were 12-14 year old toy dogs running nationals last year when I went.


----------



## So Cavalier

CptJack said:


> Congratulations, guys! I am ridiculously excited for both Zoey and Gemma. I can't imagine how proud you guys are! Ocean just looks great.
> 
> (I got an email from my agility instructor telling me she thought we did well at the show and go, especially for the first time out. I teared up. It's going to be one of those days.)


Thanks CptJack! and yes, congratulations to to Mrs Boats and kadylady for great weekends too! A GREAT BIG congratulations for your first showing at the Show and Go! You have a lot of fun ahead of you. I have my fluffy white dog waiting to go. He's not ready for prime time yet but it is fun and very different working with him.



> No one is allowed to talk about retiring dogs. Summer will be 11 this year too. I'm in denial.


I totally hear you on this one. In our training class, Gemma is almost 11. We have an MAS who is 13 and her daughter who is also 10. A Parsons Russell who will be turning 11 soon and a Jack who is 13. I call our class "a bunch of old bitches". All but the Jack are actively trialing. The Jack doesn't trial anymore due to to the fact that she was attacked several times and has too much anxiety in the ring. She still turns a mean weave pole though.


----------



## LoMD13

Awesome, I was just going to ask you about the wee little white fluff!

Congrats to everybody on their weekends!


----------



## CptJack

...Hey guys?

Seriously, validate me. I can totally sign up for the October trial and do touch 'n go, right?

Or maybe don't validate me. Tell me when you decided to start trialing, anyway.


----------



## LoMD13

One of the fastest dogs I've ever seen run is 10 years old! She's a powerhouse.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Dog is still in stitches and cone, so we have to take things really slow. She's bored out of her mind, so I made a "course" for her out of pvc pipes that I laid out on the ground as "obstacles". I quickly taught her that she was to walk over the pipe like it was a jump.. without the jumping. It's actually a lot of fun, as she is doing well picking up on my body language for direction cues while I work on my crosses. Take that, spay!


----------



## So Cavalier

> Awesome, I was just going to ask you about the wee little white fluff!


Nothing like trying to train a fluffy white dog to keep you humble! We just came home from class. He did fine on all the single obstacles and jump set drills then....on to sequence work. We were basically doing a U shape sequence...tire to A frame to curved tunnel to jump. Baxter ran around the tire to a beautiful A frame contact then....everywhere but through the tunnel and then he decided to front cross _me_ at the jump almost killing us both. Then he proceeded to attempt to break the Guinness World record for the number of times a crazed fluffy white dog can run and down an A frame. Worst part...every other dog in the class did the sequence fairly nicely....When I describe Baxter...I always say...what he lacks in focus...he makes up in enthusiasm. In time....he will be awesome....sigh....


----------



## So Cavalier

CptJack said:


> ...Hey guys?
> 
> Seriously, validate me. I can totally sign up for the October trial and do touch 'n go, right?
> 
> Or maybe don't validate me. Tell me when you decided to start trialing, anyway.


Sorry...not ignoring....honestly! I don't know what venues you are looking at. It sounds like you might be ready in October. That is still a bit away so it will give you time. Honestly, I would ask your trainer for her opinion. It would also depend on what venues you are looking at. Some have easier more dog/handler friendly entry levels than others. I only know CPE and NADAC. (I did one AKC but never went back). CPE's level 1 is a really great start off point for new handlers and green dogs. No weaves or teeters at this level and the courses are shorter. NADAC novice and AKC novice are more in line with level 3 in CPE.

I waited longer to start out in actual trialing than my classmates because Gemma was queen of the zommies...They finally talked me into entering a trial. I started out in a NADAC trial and I wish I had waited for a CPE trial instead. I also entered all the events and I wish I had only entered a couple...but live and learn....I would strongly suggest you go to a few trials with and without your dog. If you go without your dog...volunteer to set bars especially at the higher skill levels and watch other handlers. I learned a lot about what to do and what not to do by working in the ring.


----------



## CptJack

I'm thinking NADAC touch 'n go. It has no weaves and weaves are the only thing we haven't covered/can't do. I just came back from a show and go that had excellent, standard open, novice, and touch 'n go courses this past weekend. I didn't even try standard because it was the first time she'd done anything outside and we'd just gotten there (and I missed walking the course), I forgot a sequence on the first Novice Course. Second Novice we just ran past the weaves and got everything else, and Touch 'N Go hit everything OK first go. I don't think we have ANYTHING with CPE locally, just AKC and NADAC. I really, really don't think I much like some of the AKC stuff.

I'll probably talk to my instructor about it and see what she has to say. I know we couldn't do anything BUT Touch 'N go by then (I don't think our weaves class will be finished by then), but it's a small trial in a rural area that never has a huge turn out, so I might just go do it anyway and plan on it not being fantastic and chalk it up as experience. Unfortunately going to a lot of trials isn't something that's going to happen here. We have 2 a year, and if I add up to four hours travel (each way) I can get more, but doing that to volunteer and watch really isn't very practical. I can! I probably will! But... not more than about once, maybe twice.


----------



## So Cavalier

> We have 2 a year, and if I add up to four hours travel (each way) I can get more, but doing that to volunteer and watch really isn't very practical. I can! I probably will! But... not more than about once, maybe twice.


Gotcha! Wow only two! That's a bummer. If Kylie is good in her crate and you can leave her, then volunteer in one or two events you are not entered. If she stresses too much, then no...she needs to come first and you want her to be calm and happy. You can still observe runs from your set up if you are close enough to the ring.


----------



## CptJack

So Cavalier said:


> Gotcha! Wow only two! That's a bummer. If Kylie is good in her crate and you can leave her, then volunteer in one or two events you are not entered. If she stresses too much, then no...she needs to come first and you want her to be calm and happy. You can still observe runs from your set up if you are close enough to the ring.


Yeah, we get April and October. As I get further into this I'll obviously travel more, but right now I'm mostly just trying to build reasonable experience.

Setting up and volunteering with her crated is a great idea, and what I think I'll do. She's pretty good with being crated and for all her sometimes weird issues she's a pretty low stress dog in most ways.


----------



## kadylady

I think since you had so much success at the show and go that you could definitely trial in October. Gotta have your first one sometime and if you go into with the mindset that you have of it being for experience you should be totally fine. Is it at the same place where the show and go was? That helps to if its a place you are both familiar with.

My first trial with Zoey was at the end of August 2013 and we started training September 2012, so about a year of training. She didn't have weaves down yet when we started trialing but we started in CPE where as So Cav mentioned there are no weaves or teeters in level 1. We were at a new building but it was laid out almost identical to the building we trained in. We did 2 classes our first time. My instructor definitely helped me decide when we were ready.


----------



## BostonBullMama

We go for our first agility assessment on September 28!! We were going to attend an assessment on the 27th of this month but I have no way to get there since the mister is working - so now I just have to wait... 

I'm super excited, this is the first step in signing up!


----------



## So Cavalier

> I don't think we have ANYTHING with CPE locally, just AKC and NADAC. I really, really don't think I much like some of the AKC stuff.


If you have more AKC trials locally, even if you don't plan on doing AKC at all, it is a good idea to take a new dog to several trials before actually trialling just to get them used to the atmosphere. I plan to start taking Baxter to some local AKC trials and at first just walk around for a while, then later with a crate. I have several friends who trial in AKC and I will set up under their canopy. I did that with Gemma and she is extremely comfortable at trials. Baxter is a lot more high strong than Gemma so he might need more time just soaking in the atmosphere of being around lots of new dogs and people. We have a local NADAC trial coming up in a few months and several of my friends want to meet him so hopefully he will be visiting here also.

Also...I forgot to add...NADAC has instituted "video trials" for people who want to title their dogs but don't have easy access to lots of trials. I don't have the fine details but basically, there are approved courses and you videotape the run and submit it to NADAC where it is reviewed and you can be awarded legs towards your title. You cannot title only with video runs however. You still need to have some in sanctioned trials.


----------



## Laurelin

I think I am going to start AKC trialling. I've been putting it off but I think the courses will be better for us. NADAC and USDAA are a little fast for Old Dog. Well... at her trial speed- she blazes through courses in class. In class she's usually running around 4 yps. In trials she's more like 2.8-3.1 yps. That's frustrating. The TDAA is nice because it's so close to us and also slower speeds. USDAA we don't have many trials. Any mistake in USDAA right now means we time out. We have to run clean. I think she must be feeding off me and the environment. I'm hoping if I come out blazing she will too this weekend. 

I need to get going and register her in AKC.


----------



## MrsBoats

CptJack said:


> ...Hey guys?
> 
> Seriously, validate me. I can totally sign up for the October trial and do touch 'n go, right?
> 
> Or maybe don't validate me. Tell me when you decided to start trialing, anyway.


I didn't see this until now...and I'm assuming here you're talking about NADAC since that's the only venue that I know who calls a class Touch n' Go. I've done a lot of TnG with Lars. NADAC is really great for agility newbies since you can "train in the ring" some. From their rulebook:



> Training in the ring. This could include re-doing an obstacle, or sequence of obstacles, which appear to be training that sequence or obstacle after it has been faulted. This could include a handler taking an excessive amount of time to perform an obstacle, or more than three attempts to perform an obstacle that the dog has refused repeatedly. This might also include a handler using aggressive body language or excessive harsh tones to get their dog to perform an obstacle. If the judge at any time feels that the handler is not trying to successfully complete a course, but is working a particular obstacle or type of obstacle, for the purpose of schooling a specific performance pattern on that obstacle (or type of obstacle), then the judge may eliminate that run for scoring purposes. The judge may allow the handler to continue their run and continue using sportsmanlike behavior while trying to improve their dog’s performance on those obstacles. At no time shall a judge allow a handler to remain in the ring beyond the Standard Course time for that course while training in the ring.
> 
> NADAC allows, and encourages, training in the ring, but it shall never be a qualifying run.
> 
> Any training in the ring must be done in a positive and sportsmanlike manner. Absolutely no harsh corrections or physical corrections shall be allowed.
> 
> Delay of start/start-line training. Once a handler has positioned their dog at the start line, and has started to leave the dog in an attempt to prepare for their run, they must continue to proceed forward in an effort to start their run. If the handler repeatedly stops in an attempt to urge the dog to maintain its staying position, they may be eliminated for training in the ring. If the handler takes any steps “back” to the dog, after they have left the dog, they shall be eliminated for training the start line. The handler may talk to the dog and use visual signals at all times after they leave their dog without incurring faults. The faults or elimination will occur if the handler returns to the dog, steps back before crossing the line and physically places the dog into a “position” or repeatedly stops proceeding forward because of an attempt to re-command the dog to stay at the start line. A judge might assess a five fault penalty if the handler spends an excessive amount of time before signaling to the dog to begin.


If you haven't seen TnG...it only has hoops, tunnels, an a-frame, and a dogwalk. They call it a ground game since there are no jumps. Be prepared for contact/tunnel discrimination because that's a trademark for NADAC. Having a verbal command for tunnel/contact discrimination is key! Novice, Open, and Elite all run the same course but the time allotments are different. NADAC is all about speed and course flow...sometimes slow dogs have some difficulties making time once they get out of novice. 

Here's Lars running Touch and Go so you can get an idea of what it looks like: [video]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151345417856928&set=vb.690476927&type=3&theater[/video]

Go for it!!! Everyone has to start showing at some point!!


----------



## sassafras

Everyone's talking about their trials and we're just over here in the backyard doin' this stuff:


----------



## MrsBoats

nothing wrong with that! I post more backyard stuff than I post trials.


----------



## kadylady

We're going to enter a few CPE trials before the end of the year. We've been doing pretty good in AKC but I would really like to keep building her (and my) confidence a bit more and I think the smoother flowing courses in CPE will help do that for both of us, plus allow us to practice with some more speed.


----------



## CptJack

Thanks, guys! We actually did Touch And Go at the show and go and it was a lot of fun. In fact I think it our favorite thing all day, which kind of surprised me since her general reaction to hoops in class has been 'hoop? what hoop?' Honestly, she's got verbals for all the obstacles down, she's got a good here and out. 

I mean it's only been 6 months, and I'm not claiming we're GOOD at all of this stuff, or particularly fast all the time (it comes and goes. She was great at the show 'n go, but too much anything in a row and she starts dragging or refusing) but I don't know how much else I can learn without getting enough experience to know what it is I don't know.

I also plan, once I've done the classes offered here, to investigate the training facility a little further out. It'd be one heck of a drive, but it *sounds* like a really good club. At the very least I'll be looking into renting Andrea's agility field, some and doing some private lessons. Right now I *really* need to know what next sessions classes are going to be so I can plan, darn it.


----------



## CptJack

Looks like we're off until about October? I thought about going back to take another class for the sake of taking it, but the only classes that are *apparently* being offered this session are Foundations and Beginner and that will bore Kylie to tears and not make her love it at all. Bug can't do actually agility - her knees don't bend. Dates for weaves aren't out yet, just saying 'fall', so we'll see with that, but. We've got some equipment, we'll go play in the yard and park for a while. Maybe pick up intermediate for another go around, depending.


----------



## MrsBoats

Well, we played in AKC agility this weekend and yesterday was a little rough. But we had some good runs today! No Q's but really, really nice stuff.  I sort of went back to handling that I have used with Lars in the past...and it worked well. At the suggestion of a girl I had been taking private lessons with...she wanted me to handle O more aggressively and get ahead of him whenever I could on course. I ditched all of that today and I was actually really happy with how O ran. It was the best runs he and I have had in a while. 

Enjoy!

Novice Standard...loved the closing line from the table to the end. Nailed his weave poles and read my rear crosses nicely. 






Novice JWW....loved the first half of the course and the couple of downed bars were just stupid stuff I don't care about. I've got to shut up and rely on my body cues more like I do with Lars.


----------



## Laurelin

Well I mentioned it on the other thread. I don't want to be super depressing here but Summer had a neurological episode at the trial on Sunday. Right now vets are suspecting a tumor. We had a great Saturday and ran our best ever. But you just never know if it'll be your last run.  I'm so heartbroken.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Well I mentioned it on the other thread. I don't want to be super depressing here but Summer had a neurological episode at the trial on Sunday. Right now vets are suspecting a tumor. We had a great Saturday and ran our best ever. But you just never know if it'll be your last run.  I'm so heartbroken.


So sorry to hear that you and Summer are going through all of this. I can't even imagine. Will be hoping you guys get some better news and soon.


----------



## CptJack

I learned to do a sling shot start with Kylie in agility tonight. It's not that she doesn't have a start-line stay, it's that it's INCREDIBLY demotivating for her and if I use one she goes flat. We also had a couple of really nice rear-crosses. I think we're BOTH getting what's supposed to happen there.

I was finally told out how weaves are going to be handled (drop in classes) and was given a real, proper, clear run down of what to expect at the trial in October. Was definitely encouraged and enabled to go, and also informed that I can just run Kylie Skilled and skip out of the measuring process. Being able to skip the measuring given her occasional... issues is a good, good thing. Oh, and also told that it was absolutely okay to enter the standard runs if I wanted and either move past the weave poles or even just do, for instance, the outside circle of obstacles. Not sure how I'm handling any of that yet, of course, but I'll sort it. 

There was lots of good information, good class over all and Kylie really poured her heart into it. 

Bug just had fun. She did well. I really don't feel good about going any further with her (mostly because of her knees) but she's had a grand time - and I might very well change my mind about it. Maybe just one more level?

One more class this session and then quasi break. We'll see what we do after that. Definitely the drop in classes re: weaves (i have NO idea how drop in classes work, really) and will probably rent the field and do some private lessons between now and October.

Also, I love this:


----------



## CptJack

I actually stuck my weave poles in the ground (finally) and started working with them today. We had fun and it'll keep us occupied on our quasi-break. 

Anyway, actual question: I would like a contact obstacle at home. I only realistically have space to have and store one. I lean A-frame for simplicity of set up, but it's also probably the hardest to move around. Thoughts or suggestions?


----------



## trainingjunkie

If I could only have one, I would have a teeter. Then an A-Frame. Then a dog walk. The dog walk is just SO big.


----------



## MrsBoats

My teeter is by far the easiest for me to move out of the dog walk and the a-frame. I can move the a-frame by myself by turtling it around on my back. Dog Walk is a two person job...not to mention it's freakin' long. Each plank is 12' long and that eats up some real estate in agility land. 

Teeter will also be the cheapest to buy.


----------



## CptJack

Teeter it is! I will eventually have more space to work with, but right now the space we're using is only half cleared and that won't change for just about another year. I just really want some kind of contact obstacle in the mix so I can keep working on that. 

And, heck, she *REALLY* likes the teeter - the weirdo.


----------



## MrsBoats

If you're on facebook, there are a couple of groups on there for used agility equipment for sale. If you poke around and find them...you might be able to find some used equipment that people are looking to unload in your area. Craigslist too. All of my contact equipment was scavenged from agility friends who wanted to buy new stuff or were getting out of it and focusing on obedience. I paid $250 for my dog walk, $350 for my a-frame, and $175 for my teeter. You might be able to find a good deal on a teeter and other stuff when the time comes.


----------



## trainingjunkie

You are very fortunate! Around here, stuff gets picked up so fast! I had to buy mine new. Much different prices!


----------



## Kyllobernese

My sister and I had made a lot of our equipment for our small dogs, we then bought a tunnel and chute. Then I was lucky enough to find out someone I knew was selling her equipment and we got several jumps, a teeter, tire, weave poles and A-frame (all regulation size) for a good price. It did double up on some of our equipment so I now have some and my place and most of it at my sister's so we can practice at both places.


----------



## So Cavalier

Be careful before you actually buy the teeter if you buy it used. There is so much variability in teeters from the amount of spring back, bounce, noise and ease of tipping. Be sure it will meet your needs. Teeters can be such an issue for some dogs.


----------



## CptJack

So Cavalier said:


> Be careful before you actually buy the teeter if you buy it used. There is so much variability in teeters from the amount of spring back, bounce, noise and ease of tipping. Be sure it will meet your needs. Teeters can be such an issue for some dogs.


Yeah. We've been fairly fortunate that Kylie's had no issues at all with it. I'd really like to keep it that way, so I'll be sure to check out whatever I find carefully. We'll be doing NADAC (which doesn't use a teeter anymore) for a good year or so, regardless, but I don't want her developing fear of it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

It feels so great to be back to agility classes. We were introduced to a low dog walk and our teeter was raised a bit. Nailed the dog walk and no fear of the teeter. Unfortunately she does bounce off the teeter when it hits the ground. Like.. she bounces.. she isn't jumping off at all.. so for now we are being spotted so nothing negative comes of it. We continue to work on rear crosses as well. You know you have a dog with great potential when the instructor calls dibs on your dog if you no longer want it. Too bad I'm a bag of derp.. but never ever ever will I let my crazy go.


----------



## CptJack

So. Kylie's drop in weave classes will be Sunday mornings, starting... some time. I'm not sure when, but whatever.

Also, Bug won the little 'get out' competition in class and surprised the stuffing out of me and everyone else, having never shown any inclination she had any idea what we were trying to do with that. She was so HAPPY with her toy and herself. So, I went ahead and signed her up for beginner agility. I *can not* and will not go any further than that with her, though. Which is fine, because the session after this one it rotates back around to foundations and intermediate and will be right in time to sign up Molly and Kylie (because Kylie could use this class again). ...I might have an agility problem. 

End of Kylie's class we had a course that was jump, teeter, tire, tunnel, (cross) a-frame, jump, jump, (cross), table, dog walk, tunnel (cross), jump, chute. She actually got it both times. During the early part of the class working on a couple of segments she... left the course to go jump in people's laps. The first time was Michael's (who tried and failed to photograph class). The second? Other people in the class. All righty, then.  (Things I never thought my dog would do....)


----------



## kadylady

Met up with some people tonight for one last open session before our trial this weekend. All of the people that were there tonight had either been my instructors at one point or assistants in the classes, so it was great to get feedback from everyone on our progress. We ran through 2 different courses, both of them we great practice for this weekend with enough tricky stuff but still confidence building. Zoey did fantastic, I was very pleased. I felt pretty good about my handling as well. We had some issues with the tire at our last trial (she doesn't always see the point in going through the center when there are other openings to choose from) so we've been drilling and heavily rewarding that lately. She's been doing really great with her tunnel sends still. She really picked up some speed in her weaves for the first time tonight which was quite exciting to see her get that rythm going. I'm feeling pretty good about this weekend. The trial is outside and hosted by my club. So should be fun, we haven't trialed outside since this time last year but I think she will do fine.


----------



## sassafras

We did some really short sequences tonight - tunnel and chute, plus either low dog walk or a mostly-supported teeter (so it only tipped a few inches). 

He's not afraid of any old thing, he loves to play/work, and we've done enough other stuff before this that we really know each other and mesh. We are having so much fun together. So. Much. Fun. I love this dog. 

Even if I'll barely be able to keep up with him soon.


----------



## MrsBoats

One doesn't understand how much fun agility it until you get into it....truly addicting. Wait until you start showing...then your addiction goes to a whole new level. LOL


----------



## kadylady

MrsBoats said:


> One doesn't understand how much fun agility it until you get into it....truly addicting. Wait until you start showing...then your addiction goes to a whole new level. LOL


True story. And trying to find any extra penny to add to the agility budget!


----------



## CptJack

I honestly think I was getting bored until that show 'n go. That's not even CLOSE to a real trial I know, but it was SO MUCH FUN. I am still the least competitive person in the planet with other people, but working against a clock and new courses and to do things right? Oh yeah. That's satisfying. And I get to hang out with dog people! And dogs! And teach my dogs neat things! And I never, ever, run out of things *to* teach them! And I get this one on one time with them and they both just LIGHT UP at playing that game. All I want at this point is to do more (and more, and more). 

And, yeah, I'm funneling a lot of money from other things into agility. Fortunately, I had other fairly expensive hobbies that have fallen by the wayside in favor of doing this. And while my husband really, really, doesn't get agility he gets a kick out of saying he has dogs that do it, watching us play, and at worst sits around and reads a book while I drag him around (I don't drive). Have discovered if I expand my search a couple of hours into NC I have more options for trials and things, too.


----------



## Laurelin

We've had 2 weeks off since Summer's scare. We were supposed to go yesterday but were not able to because of storms. I can't wait to get back out there... I will probably cry because I had resigned myself to that being the end of agility with Summer.

In good news house stuff is going well and there's a PLETHORA of BC, aussie, and ACD pups and young adults around looking for homes. Can't wait for a yard and a young dog to play agility with. No worries, Summer will still play as long as she can. It is her favorite thing in the world. 

I also thought I'd share one of the dogs my trainer is running. she is the coolest and tiniest thing I've ever seen. A Chihuahua that is probably around half Summer's size. She has rocketed to masters in USDAA in just a couple of trials. She is KILLING it. Took 9 Qs last trial! So far recently she's by far the most successful dog running from our club right now. I freaking love watching her run.


----------



## CptJack

Tonight at agility I learned that there is definitely such a thing as too high value a treat - and that I should never, ever, take steak to training again. Ever. 

In other news, I really need to work on getting Kylie to GO after waiting, because (probably not unrelated from above), she's very good at plopping down into a beautiful 2o2o at the contact equipment and *REFUSING TO MOVE AGAIN*. So, that's new and fun. Actually a lot is new and fun - Kylie is performing LESS accurately, but 900 times more enthusiastically and energetically and... I think if I had to choose one or the other, I prefer this. Aside from getting 'stuck' on contacts, she's REALLY diving ahead of of me, moving at a good clip and just seems to be having more fun. This is what I wanted. I still have a ton to learn handling wise and it's getting harder as she's getting into it and really starting to move, but. I'm delighted. I'm delighted because SHE IS SO HAPPY.

Overall, not bad. Ran a novice course (minus weaves) with only a few bobbles and those were mostly related to getting stuck on contacts. She's still picking up what's expected of her when I say switch, she had a really good time, and we got a little bit of an introduction to weaves before the other student/dog showed up. Also sounds like we're going to have a few practice days out at that field leading up to the trial at the end of October, which would be nice.


----------



## kadylady

Another successful weekend in the agility books for us!! Trial was outside and Zoey apparently LOVES running outside (only our 2nd time outside)! She was fast off the start line every class. In the past we have had some hesitation and then she picks up speed, but not this weekend...she put on her speedy pants. We got our first Novice FAST Q on Saturday. We had some weaves issues on Saturday, they kind of rattled a little the way they were staked into the ground and I'm wondering if that threw her off a bit. We had a decent Open JWW run on Saturday but we didn't finish the weaves, I opted to not go all the way back and retry again as she is easily demotivated and that's where they were really rattling. Novice Std was good other than blowing her A frame contact and then not wanting to weave again.

Here's Saturday's Novice FAST run.





And Saturday Open JWW





Today Open JWW we had too many refusals/runarounds but she weaved great and boy did she have a good time.






And finally got another Novice Std Q today! #2/3 Our best run of the weekend, I was so proud of this run for both of us. One bobble when she decided she just had to check out the judge but we recovered and finished strong. Plus, we've been having issues with the tire as the first obstacle, not today! Also super proud of my front cross on the landing side of the winged jump after the double because as I walked in I was like there is no way I am going to be able to get that FC in because it was a pretty big gap between the jumps so I hadn't planned doing it but my body just decided to go for it and I executed it and she read it perfectly. 





Overall so happy. So many little things that we've been working so hard on finally came together, especially in our last standard run. The tire as the first jump, tunnel hesitation, start line hesitation, jumping off contacts, not leaving the ring at the end! And the speed and confidence she showed this weekend just blew my mind. It was a long and exhausted weekend (my club was hosting so I was there all day both days and on my feet the whole time) but so much fun!

ETA: Post trial ribbon pic


----------



## Kyllobernese

Good runs. I made the mistake with Remmy when I first started of going back to correct the weaves and he started freezing up on me. I know peoples views on it are different but I found when I just kept going, he got more confident, then I could go back and he would redo them fine after a few trials.


----------



## CptJack

Zoey (and you!) look fantastic! Congratulations!

We still have periodic targets with treats set up for contact obstacles. The problem we're having now is getting her off them again - seems like she's looking for the treat. :/ I think I'm going to do some work with asking her for a wait and then using my treat bottle to throw ahead of her and so she's rewarded further away and has incentive to dive off the contacts. Putting it on a cue would not hurt anything, either (she's got a stop, she needs a go).

The treat thing was just... ridiculous. I wore the treat bag or had it in my pocket and she stared at me and wouldn't get off my ankle and kept moving out, doing the obstacle, coming back and staring at me again. I left it and she'd find it ANYWHERE, on course or off, and bring it to me. The MAS who was the only other person there kept leaving course to slam into me. The instructor held it and that sort of worked because the instructor hid it, but only sort of. It was just way, way too distractingly much for her, and in fairness even the humans involved were having trouble because we kept wanting to eat it -it smelled really good!

So. Yeah. I'm going back to cheese and liver. It was just ridiculous.


----------



## kadylady

Thanks guys! 

I think the biggest issue with Zoey's weave poles right now is the speed going into them. She's running towards them a lot faster and most of the time blowing right by them because she just isn't ready to weave that fast yet. When I can get her slowed down and setup for a good entry she usually gets them pretty good. I've been restarting her when she just plain blows through them and doesn't even try, but when she tries and then has a issue I have lately just been going on because I don't want to ruin her confidence, which was awesome this weekend. I think weave issues will be easier to fix than confidence issues.

CptJack, Zoey used to do the same thing on the contacts, sit there and wait for more treats. My instructor had me reinforce and reward the release word with her, both on our contacts and on our start line stays because she would hesitate to come off the start line as well. If you aren't doing a stopped contact though that might not be what you're looking for. 

We will be doing lots of A-frame contact work again, I really don't like her standing at the top of the A-frame, taking in the scenery and then blowing her contact with a flying leap.


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> CptJack, Zoey used to do the same thing on the contacts, sit there and wait for more treats. My instructor had me reinforce and reward the release word with her, both on our contacts and on our start line stays because she would hesitate to come off the start line as well. If you aren't doing a stopped contact though that might not be what you're looking for.


It's what we're doing for. We're doing stopped contacts and getting her off a start line is also a problem. She tends to either hesitate or go flat (why we were doing 'slingshot' starts a couple of weeks ago). She'll sit there until the cows come home sometimes, or just start again at the speed of frozen molasses. I'm going to probably get out and work with her over the next day or so, since we've got this month off. We can focus on those releases and then releases to an obstacle or two between some of the weave work.

I keep wanting to get frustrated because it seems like I need to work on almost everything at once. Then I step back and realize she's kind of still new at this game and comparatively keeping up with the big/more experienced dogs. And that the problems we have NOW are because she's finally gaining speed. So, I really can't complain.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> It's what we're doing for. We're doing stopped contacts and getting her off a start line is also a problem. She tends to either hesitate or go flat (why we were doing 'slingshot' starts a couple of weeks ago). She'll sit there until the cows come home sometimes, or just start again at the speed of frozen molasses. I'm going to probably get out and work with her over the next day or so, since we've got this month off. We can focus on those releases and then releases to an obstacle or two between some of the weave work.
> 
> I keep wanting to get frustrated because it seems like I need to work on almost everything at once. Then I step back and realize she's kind of still new at this game and comparatively keeping up with the big/more experienced dogs. And that the problems we have NOW are because she's finally gaining speed. So, I really can't complain.


Same as Zoey. Sometimes she would sit there and just be looking around and I'd have to release her like 3 or 4 times and then it would take a few obstacles to get a groove going. I started treating her after the first obstacle in practice and it really helped. Also helped when my instructor told pretty much said just because you have a start line stay doesn't mean you have to use it every time. So depending on the course sometimes running with her is better.

I get your frustration. Saturday I was a little down after our Standard run where she blew the Aframe and didn't weave, partly because I was hot and tired and had been outside on my feet for 12 hours, but also I was just like why can't we get a fricken Standard Q!!! But then I go back and look at all the good pieces in our runs and those far outweigh the trouble spots. And things that I have been working hard on, tire and tunnel sends, were awesome. Now I have different things to push to the front of the needs work list. Its not a list that you cross stuff off of, its a list that things rotate order of priority on or something like that. And watching the upper level dogs/handlers have their own fair share of trouble spots and crazy dog moments also helps. One day this lady that runs a master level pug who is usually super consistent, he had uncontrollable zoomies in T2B and he just kept running the same path of 4 or 5 obstacles like 3 times in a row and then he stopped and was like okay, we can go now lol and his handler laughed and everyone laughed with her and it was like dogs will be dogs. Whatcha gonna do?


----------



## CptJack

We had a "situation" in Bug's final foundations class that was painful to watch, with an owner really losing it at her dog. 

It made me step back and evaluate where my head is, in this. I'm still not competitive, but I AM a perfectionist and the further I go the more seriously I want to take it. That gets communicated to Kylie and while she's not easy to shut down in most circumstances she absolutely is in agility. She'll keep performing, yeah, but she turns slow and mechanical and any enthusiasm and joy in doing it flies out the window. I would LIKE a Q. After that I'd LIKE to earn a title with her. I NEED to remember that she's TWO, and she's only had 3 agility classes, and that I'm playing a game with my dog. I started doing this for her. It's given her so much confidence - she's social with other people, she's happy, she's willing to RUN and wag and bounce and mess up. If I ever take that from her because of my issues, I sincerely hope someone smacks me soundly upside the head or that I have the good sense to take a break.

Interestingly, I do not have these issues with Bug. I had ZERO expectations of Bug, got a kick out of everything she succeeded at and was proud of her for what she did without caring about what she didn't. She won't ever go further than this next class, at least not more than the odd show 'n go or what have you, and that's actually working in my favor. I need to adopt that attitude with Kylie -and ultimately Molly. 

It's a game. They're dogs - what are you going to do, is very much right.


----------



## Laurelin

The fun thing about running Summer is I've never had expectations with her. It's just a joy to get to run my older dog. That's a nice benefit of starting a dog at an age where most are retiring their dogs. Heck when I signed her up I warned them she was already 8 and they told me 'oh you can do the foundations for fun!' and here we are... It is fun. It's lots of fun. As long as Summer is happy, I am happy. I don't care that I lured the weaves and she only weaves one side. She LOVES the game. It has made us a better team, given us great memories, and improved Summer's quality of life and health. 

I don't WANT to be some of the super competitive people I see. Many of them are very good dog owners who are in it for the right stuff- don't get me wrong- but some are very competitive at the expense of things that are more important to me. Or at least seemingly... maybe I am just judgmental. I see some people who look like they are not having fun or seem very down on their dogs a lot of the time. It is frustrating though because I have gotten some -very- negative feedback about even just contemplating rescuing Nextdog vs buying a purebred of a certain breed. And how it's so hard to find very competitive rescues... which I try to explain is NOT my goal. I don't need a nationals or worlds dog. I don't have the cash to trial every weekend and travel. I just want a sound dog that wants to work with me that can play once a month and take classes. 

How dare you even contemplate getting a unknown dog as your SECOND agility dog instead of buying a shiny brand new custom border collie of the latest fashionable color who has had 8 weeks of early desensitization and blah blah. Don't you know everyone in the world 'upgrades' once they 'get serious'. I am not saying that is a bad choice... I just don't think it is THE ONLY WAY. Even the most agility bred dog has challenges but seriously? It is like I mention rescuing a -gasp- mixed breed (or purebred, I'm open!) and people treat me like I am insane and lost my marbles. It's driving me NUTS. 

Maybe it's a terrible idea and I am delusional and everyone knows more of what I want than I do....

Qs are fun but some of the best runs we've had have been no Qs.


----------



## Laurelin

Sorry for the rant. Didn't mean to rant. It seems like everyone wants to rain on my parade though recently. And if I get told by family that I need a labradoodle again I might just scream...


----------



## LoMD13

Some of the best dogs I know in agility are rescues! I think too many people get sucked in to "This is the right and best way" to do something, and it doesn't always fly for individual dogs. I half lured half shaped the weaves and that's fine for us too. 

Lola is having some random dogwalk issues  I think it wiggled on her and since then she's been very wary of it. She goes up just fine, it's the walking across the bridge part that's suspicious. Funny, she's having so much trouble with it right now and yet she still gravitates towards it.


----------



## CptJack

I don't think that's a rant that needs to be apologized for. 

My instructor's current two dogs are mutts - one from the pound, one from border collie rescue. One of her dogs went to NADAC championships and got third in his class, as well as the highest scoring mixed breed. ALL of the dogs she's run agility with have been mutts -and not even all BC mixes. It sets the one in a lot of ways. So does the fact that the name of her training facility is basically "All American" and the webpage talks about mutts and where the dog came from. We have our share of purebred people, but we also have a lot of rescue folks. We still have a TON of herding dogs and mixes, but a lot of them are dogs from shelters and rescue groups.


----------



## Laurelin

My trainer is one of the ones that thinks it's a good idea. She's run two rescue dogs very successfully. Right now her main dog is a BC rescue. I do know a couple people who run rescues- both the head of the BC rescue and sheltie rescue here do. 

Right now I'm open to a few different breeds or mixes- leaning towards BC or ACD types. But I've seen a few others outside those bounds that interest me- especially terrier-y mixes. So we'll see... I may try to adopt with the idea that I'd be fostering first for a good fit. There's a couple high kill shelters around here so at worst I save a dog's life and send it to another home. 

Meh. I just need to let it not get to me and understand I just want a different thing from the experience than some people do. It does suck to feel like there's people just waiting for you to fail and say 'I told you so' though.


----------



## CptJack

You know, for a while I thought about training to a different, bigger facility where more of the students were highly and successfully competitive. 

I'm not sorry I stayed put. My instructor is good, even if the classes are limited and I'll have to ultimately transition to private lessons (or sprinkle them in while we continue to retake this class). I mean people here compete and title, but they're not going for nationals or worlds, either. They're going to trials once a month (on average), getting some ribbons and some titles and chilling. Which is about where I am. And, honestly, at this point I just want to do A trial, train some more, work with Kylie some more, and someday get a Q. I'll reassess after that.

As an aside, I'm still going to be interested in who you end up with. Fostering first seems like a good experience for you and awesome for the dogs, too.


----------



## kadylady

One of the many things I love about my instructor is that every time she steps into the ring with her dogs, they have fun. No matter the outcome they have fun out there and her dogs come out of the ring knowing that they are the best dogs in the world. She's having a harder time getting JWW Q's with her younger dog, they have all the points they need for a MACH because he is so fast and gets lots of Standard Q's, but minimal QQ's. I imagine that can get frustrating at times but one wouldn't know it based on her attitude with him and that is something that I definitely admire in her and has helped to shape my attitude towards it all. Every time I finish a run she asks what went right in that run and forces me to look at all the positive things that happened before I even think about critiquing the stuff that didn't go so well.

In terms of your "second dog"... While it is tempting to join the "must have most competitive dog that will be an agility super star" crew, I remind myself I have to live with whatever dog I get 24/7, while I only do agility a few days a week of practice plus trials 1-2 times a month. That's a lot of "the rest of life" time in my opinion. Yeah I will definitely do agility with my next dog and choices and considerations will be made around that, but said dog has to fill a lot more shoes than just agility, being able to live with and function happily with the dog the rest of the time is pretty important. Maybe an agility bred BC isn't right for the rest of my life? Who knows what I will end up with next. Could be a golden from a breeder, could be mutt from a rescue, or anything in between. Time will tell. In the meantime I have plenty of work to do just easing my husband into the idea of dog #3 lol


----------



## kadylady

This article came across my FB feed and seems fitting for the conversation...

https://thecognitivecanine.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/and-though-she-be-but-little-she-is-fierce/

"...some of the best teams our sport has ever seen were just people who loved a dog more than the game..."


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> This article came across my FB feed and seems fitting for the conversation...
> 
> https://thecognitivecanine.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/and-though-she-be-but-little-she-is-fierce/
> 
> "...some of the best teams our sport has ever seen were just people who loved a dog more than the game..."


And that made me cry. I know I'm hormonal and all, but. Yeah. That whole article is wonderful, but the very last paragraph really hits home.


----------



## Laurelin

That is a good read. 

I also like this one: https://thecognitivecanine.wordpress.com/2014/02/22/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say/

I have heard some nasty nasty comments and it makes me sad. 

I'm aiming for Oct-Nov to start Nextdog search. I'm pretty confident I'll find something that suits me (may not suit the other agility folk). There's been some awesome ones coming through recently- sheltie/BC litter, loads of ACDs, loads of ACD/BCs, one dog that looked borderstaffy (omg want), a dog that looked like a mini aussie and a Brittany had a fling, retriever/aussie, one split face smooth coated BC, rough coated BC, etc... I think I'll find something good. I just need to be patient. 

Summer has been such a cool dog to run I really wish I could just keep her young forever.


----------



## Kyllobernese

That is one thing I have noticed with the AAC trials in our area. People are really friendly and I have never had anyone make comments about my dogs other than apologizing for laughing at Remmy when he has had a "zoomie" class but I was laughing too as you can't help it. He is so obviously having the time of his life and that is what it is all about. I used to get a little upset at him but quickly got over it and laugh with the rest of them now. When he is good he is very good, when he is bad he is laughable.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer killed class today. She was running ridiculously fast. So glad to be back at class with her. I love her so much and I love how much she loves agility.


----------



## kadylady

Yay Summer!! Glad to hear she is doing well!


----------



## Laurelin

We did a TDAA ring rental yesterday. Pending Summer still being healthy in September we'll be entering a trial there...

It is good to just run with her again. She was so-so. She does not run as well in the TDAA building as at our usual club. I think it is mostly because I can't really run because things are so close together. She's a lot faster in USDAA. But we still had fun even if she didn't seem to remember weaves at all.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

My husband graciously built me some jumps and channel weaves! Now I can practice at home! Here is us practicing some more difficult turns into the weaves, and some of my own basic handling skills (which really need the most work!). This practice really helped in class today for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlrFNPB-Xl4

Closing the gap on the weaves. I've heard of the 2x2 method, but we were already doing channel in class so I just went with it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pVqdV4-ZwQ


----------



## sassafras

We've been progressively working up to the full height dog walk in agility, which was introduced tonight. When Squash was younger, we took a "for fun" agility class in which he fell off a dog walk, so although he's had no problems with the shorter ones so far I've been curious about how he'd do with the real thing.

He was intimidated and cautious, one of only a few times I've seen him that way about anything in his life. I'm not used to him needing this kind of help, so it was a good exercise for me, too. But then he remembered that he's Squash and even though he needed his mommy for a minute he conquered the living sh*t out of that thing.

Also, he thinks that tunnels should be for jumping over as well as running through. Because Squash. And tunnels. And jumping.


----------



## Laurelin

DSC_1010 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


----------



## CptJack

I think I'm out until the first of the year.

Apparently all my expendable income is going into replacing the roof. Yay homeownership.


----------



## Laurelin

Don't tell me those kinds of things. I am living in a world of bliss where all my troubles vanish come closing day. 30 days exactly.

The good news is the roof was replaced in 2013 so.... hopefully not needing a new one soon.

I may have to skip this next trial though. Bah moving.


----------



## CptJack

Yeaaaah. In fairness we've lived here for YEARS and it's a 100+ year old house , so it's not exactly shocking. 

Annoying! But not shocking.


----------



## Laurelin

I lucked out. The house was built in 81 but they replaced EVERYTHING last year. All the other houses needed some major work but this one doesn't and I hope not for a few years. It need some cosmetics (the seller was a single older cat lady and had cat lady wallpaper) but overall I'm hoping nothing for a while.

That sucks though.


----------



## SDRRanger

After a few weeks off with the trainers at Nationals, we were back in the ring today. Worked on a few three piece sequences, weaves, sit-stays with distractions. 

We also worked on sending our dogs out ahead through tunnels with toy/bait bags thrown at the other end. Mr "I don't really care for toys" tried out a friend's fur bait bag and is in love. 










Not only did he picked it up and give it a shake, but he tugged on it all the way back into line. I'm not sure if it's related to it being at "work" as opposed to home, but I've already ordered one and we'll see how it goes. 

In other news, I think this is going to be my last set of agility classes for a while. I had a really bad couple weeks with my back and I sat down to think about what I can realistically do and what we're going to be able to get out of classes. Working your dog away from you only goes so far when you're training a new dog (and you're new yourself) and I'm worried it will mess him up having me lagging, confusing him, etc. So in the back of my mind I'm tossing around the idea of taking a break and maybe picking up Rally to keep us in two classes a week. I do love agility though and would keep working on things at home during our regular training.


----------



## CptJack

I'm still probably going to do the trial in October. I just dropped Bug out of class - makes me sad, because I was looking forward to it, but having a roof over our heads is kind of important. Good news is, nothing I was too serious about was happening before the first of the year or so, anyway, so I should be able to carry on with my actual plans from there (Molly in Foundations, Kylie re-taking the intermediate class). I might do a private lesson or so in there, somewhere, and if those drop in weave classes ever get going I'll see if any of those work for me.


----------



## SDRRanger

CptJack said:


> I'm still probably going to do the trial in October. I just dropped Bug out of class - makes me sad, because I was looking forward to it, but having a roof over our heads is kind of important. Good news is, nothing I was too serious about was happening before the first of the year or so, anyway, so I should be able to carry on with my actual plans from there (Molly in Foundations, Kylie re-taking the intermediate class). I might do a private lesson or so in there, somewhere, and if those drop in weave classes ever get going I'll see if any of those work for me.


That really sucks. Being an adult has some jerky moments. Do you feel you have enough to be able to keep working them with it at home until you can come back?


----------



## CptJack

SDRRanger said:


> That really sucks. Being an adult has some jerky moments. Do you feel you have enough to be able to keep working them with it at home until you can come back?


Yeah. I'm honestly not too worried about the break. Bug has only done foundations (which is mostly flat work and tunnels, with a tiny bit of tunnel), so there's basically nothing required to maintain that. And, really, the only reason I wanted to take a class with her this go was because she found it fun and it was a good way to get some one on one time with her. Kylie still has the opportunity to do that trial and some drop in classes and will probably rent the field once or twice. We have tunnels, hoops, jumps, and weaves at home, and honestly? I have never known Kylie to forget how to do anything in her life. All I need to teach Molly right now is a cottage cheese lid and a 5 gallon bucket, so we should be okay until we get going again.


----------



## sassafras

Started a jumps and weaves unit in agility foundations. "He seems like he's enjoying himself!" 

People. We've been in class together for like 3 or 4 months now. YOU KNOW HE ENJOYS EVERYTHING lol.


----------



## sassafras

Does anyone have suggestions for some easy to follow DIY weave and jump instructions? I'd rather follow a recipe than fiddle around with figuring it out myself.


----------



## elrohwen

sassafras said:


> Does anyone have suggestions for some easy to follow DIY weave and jump instructions? I'd rather follow a recipe than fiddle around with figuring it out myself.


Here you go: http://www.instantagility.com/

I haven't made weaves yet, but I made a bunch of jumps from their instructions and they worked well. I just bought jump cups from Clean Run. Buying the parts to make crappy ones myself ended up being just as expensive. I also didn't buy caps (too expensive) and I didn't glue them together. Pounding them together with rubber mallet worked well. I leave mine outside except for the bars, and they have been fine. For decorations I used colored duct tape.


----------



## sassafras

Thanks!

(too short)


----------



## Kyllobernese

Today we set up our equipment, rings, etc. for the two day Agility trial this weekend. It is the first time since they started having them here that I have not had a dog entered. I am having too much problem with my legs right now, will be going in for angioplasty in October, then should be able to start back again. Thought I would let my sister run Remmy but he will not run for her and her Rat Terrier is not ready to compete yet so neither of us have dogs entered. The entries are way down this year for some reason so will not be a long trial either day.


----------



## Laurelin

Our class this week... was terrible. I don't even know... Just weren't meshing together at all and Summer was SUPER distracted.


----------



## kadylady

Well we had a super day Saturday. Went and played CPE, it's been about 5 months since we've done CPE so it was fun to get back there and play some games. Zoey did fantastic! She was a little slow in the morning but I think she had a little bit of an upset tummy, she was faster towards then end of the day. We were so in tune the whole time though. I picked out slightly ambitious snooker and jackpot courses for us and we nailed them both. I pulled off a really nice front cross on the landing side of a jump as she was coming out of the tunnel, read perfectly. Her weaves were the best they have ever been. We've been working with my instructor on building her confidence with the entries and me backing off a bit and letting her find the entrance on her own and I saw a huge improvement this weekend. Also saw improvement in her A-frame contact. She went 5 for 5 in Q's and placed 3 1st and 2 2nd. Fun fun day.



Side note: This lady was running 3 Dogo's and all I could see was Squash doing agility!!


----------



## CptJack

I just printed and filled out the entry form for the trial at the end of October. I am suddenly scared spitless.

In related and more reassuring news, we're having a few practices between now and the trial. They're free if you help at the trial and we're doing that, so. At least we'll be doing a little bit of agility between now and then.


----------



## Sibe

Denali and I are doing the SHCA National Specialty at the end of October. Gulp. We haven't done a single trial this year.


----------



## SDRRanger

Sibe said:


> Denali and I are doing the SHCA National Specialty at the end of October. Gulp. We haven't done a single trial this year.


Good luck, I'm sure you'll do great. Have any pics of her doing agility previously? 

Tonight was class and Ranger did great on the teeter. He didn't slam onto it like a freight train and didn't tip off the side. It's difficult trying to work him off leash sometimes because he has to figure it out by himself. I've said a lot of "easy" coming into it lol. Middle of class he was distracted and didn't want to (couldn't concentrate). Took him out to potty and the end of class was great with his best concentration through the weaves to date AND we used the new furry bait pouch toy that came in the mail this morning so I could reward him up ahead of me (meaning my slowness didn't mess with his straight path). 

Waiting patiently for my one jump exercises DVD to come this week from bowwowflix. I work better with structure lol


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I'm so envious of all of you signing up for trials or trailing! Congrats kadylady on your successful day!

We are still doing well in classes and having fun. We still have occasional excited reactive issues with dogs running past.. but we're doing a lot better than when we started! She decided that front contacts don't matter and they are fun to jump over. Our teeter bounce issue has improved, we are doing great on our weaves and she isn't ignoring my 2o2o very often anymore.


----------



## Sibe

SDRRanger said:


> Good luck, I'm sure you'll do great. Have any pics of her doing agility previously?


Some photos, mostly videos. Here are some pro shots (the company is phoDOGraphy)



























Includes some fails if you look close.. like jumping off the middle of the dog walk.


----------



## SDRRanger

Love the photos! I especially like the dog walk dismount lol.

I think the thing I like the most is how happy she looks in all of them.


----------



## Sibe

Photo collages are from one of her first trials, a few years ago, so she was really spazzy haha. The first collage, bottom left... faceplant.


----------



## Laurelin

We had a great class tonight. Our first run was a bit slow but the rest was superb. Minus weaves. Urghhh

So here's what's happening. She knows what to do but she will randomly skip a pole here and there. It is not the same pole. My trainer thinks she is trying to catch up to me so is skipping the pole. Her weaves were fast all night but she'd duck out and duck back in at full speed.

The other thought is that she may be having trouble collecting her stride at full speed so she'd pop out at pole 3-4 and then back in. 

Any advice?


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> We had a great class tonight. Our first run was a bit slow but the rest was superb. Minus weaves. Urghhh
> 
> So here's what's happening. She knows what to do but she will randomly skip a pole here and there. It is not the same pole. My trainer thinks she is trying to catch up to me so is skipping the pole. Her weaves were fast all night but she'd duck out and duck back in at full speed.
> 
> The other thought is that she may be having trouble collecting her stride at full speed so she'd pop out at pole 3-4 and then back in.
> 
> Any advice?


Couple initial thoughts just because we've been working a ton on weaves lately.

Zoey was having trouble with the weaves once we added the speed factor. She would either miss her entry and then jump in or make the entry and pop out. First my trainer had us go back to just one set of 2x2 and just work shaping the entrance so we could be sure she understood the entry from all angles. She had no issues with that.

Then instead of me always being ahead of her an trying to get her to go faster she had me hang back and let her find her entry and then catch up with her, rather than her trying to catch up to me. We also added a Treat N Train at the end of the poles so that she would be looking forward and driving forward rather than watching me.

Zoey is super handler focused so if I made any movement away from poles to soon she'd pop out. If I marked it with a "yes" too soon she would pop out. If I got too far ahead of her she would either pop out or slow down even more, I think it stressed her a little for me to be so far ahead. Adding the Treat N Train really shifted her focus from me to finishing the weaves and in just the little bit we've used it I have noticed a big difference. She's worrying less about where I am and concentrating on the weaves and she's picking up speed on her own now. I think letting her find the entrance on her own at her own pace slightly ahead of me sets her up for a smoother pattern and therefore she can pick up speed, vs trying to play catch up and struggling with her rhythm.

Once she's built up some more confidence obviously I will have to proof them with me being ahead, behind, farther away, ect. But while this is still newer to her it seems to be helping a lot. Hopefully some of that might be of some help to you.


----------



## CptJack

I have to decide how many runs I'm doing at the trial. 
There are 2 Regular rounds, jumpers, chances, and touch 'n go both days. Saturday has weavers, Sunday adds tunnelers. 

Kylie could conceivably do all 4 regular courses, touch 'n go and tunnelers. That would be seven runs. Seven seems like a LOT, though I'm pretty sure we're not going to be able to do full courses for at least the first couple/few and maybe none at all. This is mostly because I am 95% sure her reaction to the judge on the field is going to be "OH HECK NO" and either completely lose focus in favor of barking at the judge, or just run off the field. This is about experience, not perfection, you know? So on that level I sort of figure I throw her in everything I can and if she gets a whole 10 minutes on the field spread out across both days it's a good experience for her and we build on it next time. On that level, I like putting her in everything I possibly can. 

My reasoning on the flip side is that I don't know what I'm doing at all when it comes to trials. I've never even been to a real one. I am going to be helping at this one. If I could put her in nothing on Saturday (or maybe just one?) then I could mostly focus on figuring out how the heck things work and be better prepared on Sunday and do 2-3 then (I could do up to 4 on Sunday, since it's the day with tunnelers). 

Day of trial entry fees are accepted, for a slightly higher fee if we haven't reached the trial limit, so there's a possibility I could change my mind and slide her into something extra if I really wanted. I could also just give up my fees if she's really falling apart (or I am).

I don't know what to do and keep going back and forth on this.


----------



## Kyllobernese

CaptJack. You sound like my sister at the trial last weekend. She brought her Rat Terrier and put her over the contact obstacles (except the teeter) in the morning before the trial which they let you do. She did so well that she ended up putting her in the Jumper Class on Saturday. The only class there was for Starters on Sunday was the Snooker, so she put her in that. She did really well, only went and said "Hi" to the ring crew both classes but came back when called. She had been almost ready to give up on her so it was a real boost that she can see that she will eventually be able to compete with her. We have not had any classes available this year so she has just been training her at home over our own equipment.


----------



## CoverTune

It's trial weekend. Tomorrow we'll be attempting our first Standard class.. I don't expect a Q, but just hope she'll get through every obstacle.

Yesterday was Jumpers and a big fat "No Q" lol. (And I still can't figure out how to get my videos to embed, grrr)
http://youtu.be/1ZbbDVW7aOM


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Laurelin said:


> We had a great class tonight. Our first run was a bit slow but the rest was superb. Minus weaves. Urghhh
> 
> So here's what's happening. She knows what to do but she will randomly skip a pole here and there. It is not the same pole. My trainer thinks she is trying to catch up to me so is skipping the pole. Her weaves were fast all night but she'd duck out and duck back in at full speed.
> 
> The other thought is that she may be having trouble collecting her stride at full speed so she'd pop out at pole 3-4 and then back in.
> 
> Any advice?


If the reason is she's having trouble collecting her stride at full speed, I would work more on collection and body awareness. Just a few things you can do for collection - 4 paws in a small container, balancing on a fitness disc, tug of war with weight shift back, etc.

And then transfer for these specific exercises straight into weave poles.


----------



## Miss Bugs

I haven't done serious agility in many years. Last week one of my training friends asked me about how I was doing with "threadles" I recall the term but couldn't recall what the heck it even WAS. so I looked it up and thought "huh..I should teach Gem that" within 5 seconds of setting it up she was offering perfect threadles from a distance..I switched to various patterns..not even a slight issue with it. I think she viewed it as a variation on weaving and she loves weaves lol


----------



## MrsBoats

We played some AKC agility this weekend and O got a Novice Fast Q with a second place. This is the last show where I'm going to jump him at 24" for a while. I'm going to bring him back down to 20" while he is still trying to learn the language of agility handling and while he's still mentally maturing (which may take another year to finish.) We did have some brilliant runs like the Novice Standard run where O nailed all of his contacts, his weave pole entrance, and held his start line stay. A dropped bar was what kept us from Q'ing in most of our classes and a blown a-frame contact in the other Std run. I think dropping him down to 20 where he can start getting out of classes where the jumps are all in straight lines will be a good thing. He has 2 novice fast preferred legs and 2 novice JWW preferred legs in AKC and I think he can handle open courses where he can't open up down a line of 4 jumps and flatten out while over them...and dropping bars. I don't have video of the FAST run or my other good almost runs because my Agility BFF was walking Excellent courses while we were running. 

But someone did get this lovely JWW NQ where O and I really meshed as a team. I'll tell you what...that ending sequence that we nailed definitely wasn't a novice sequence!






A run doesn't have to be a Q to be brilliant. We had some great stuff this weekend on NQ runs and I am more than thrilled with how he ran. 

Then there was this...






If you're friends with me on FB, you've already seen that. He was after a Smooth collie who was a borderline out of control the entire time it was in the ring. Ocean got over stimulated watching it (I was really trying to body block and distract with what little food I had left while I was in the ring chute.) So, he went into the ring already over the top and when he (and Lars) get like that, he runs on adrenalin and the thinking stops. The chute wasn't bagged and it should have been...but we were lucky that it wasn't. The chute rolled around him as he was running through it and all Ocean got was a little scrape on his face which we figured was rug burn from the fabric. He came in at such a weird angle that if it were bagged, he would have broken the chute or gotten hurt. No one at that 2 ring agility trial had ever seen a dog do that before...so now Ocean is a living legend amongst the New England AKC crowd. LOL

The judge who was actually shaken up by that way more than Ocean was, let him do the chute over again which was more than fine with Ocean. He was ready to pick up where he left off and wanted to complete the course. 






It was a three day trial and the chute incident happened on Sunday. Yesterday Ocean ran three classes and was fine. He saw the chute again in standard and he charged through it with gusto like nothing happened the day before. The older he gets the more I like what I see in his working ability. He was such a good boy this weekend!


----------



## SDRRanger

I watched the video on FB half a dozen times and even showed it to my BF lol. Ocean is a machine!


----------



## Miss Bugs

I'm not even Facebook friends with you and I saw the ocean video haha, you must be FB friends with my trainer or something because she liked the vid so it came up on my feed, I was like "hey! I know that dog!" Lol


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Ocean is Rottweiler built like German tank, obv. 

In all srs though. Glad Ocean is okay. That was one heck of a chute!


----------



## MrsBoats

Ha! (I'm purposefully staying out of that thread because it will do nothing but piss me off.) 

Yeah...I'll show you moron with the 150 pound Black and Tan blobs a piece of real German engineering. I'm driving a BWM that's been reinforced with tank armor...and he only weighs 77 pounds.


----------



## SDRRanger

the best way to explain class tonight is to copy my conversation with ireth0:



> Ranger was a ** freight train at agility tn. I have a habit of waiting slightly too long and he's enormously too fast and we get messed up on longer sequences. Doing to dog walk he was supposed to stop at the bottom and nose target while on the yellow...he slammed off of it every single time into the poor instuctor and just blew through everything lol. We did have some good "go tunnel" which is sending them from farther back. He did good with that and he did really well with the weaves...didn't jump the panels (they do it with a guided setup to get them moving through it) and that's big. He totally didn't understand the weave AT ALL for a long time.
> 
> The instructor took him through the long sequence at the end and he is fast and strong over the jumps and through the tunnel. She had a hard time with him going into the second tunnel because he was so fast he kept getting ahead of her. I can't run with him at all which makes it a lot harder. I think this will be my last set of agility for now.
> 
> It was nice seeing him with someone that can compete in agility. He ran back a few times to me, but he would go back to her and work. He'd be awesome with someone who could run...and also knew how to harness the derp


So that was my night. I'm proud of him as I blunder through, but I do think I am more of a hindrance to him now as opposed to the classes helping. We can do stuff here at home (one jump stuff, table, ramp, etc) and perhaps when they move inside for the winter I'll be able to get back into it.


----------



## Laurelin

MrsBoats said:


> Ha! (I'm purposefully staying out of that thread because it will do nothing but piss me off.)
> 
> Yeah...I'll show you moron with the 150 pound Black and Tan blobs a piece of real German engineering. I'm driving a BWM that's been reinforced with tank armor...and he only weighs 77 pounds.


Oh come now that can't be a REAL rottweiler. 

Congrats everyone on the good trials! I LOVE the videos of Ocean and Corona. My trainer is running a WICKEd little chihuahua lately. She must be about 3-4 lbs because Summer looks giant next to her. She's been sweeping the floor at trials and moved up to masters in USDAA really fast. She was pulling like 9 Qs a trial or something ridiculous like it. She draws a crowd these days at the shows. I love it.

We are running low on dogsports $$$ lately (buying a house seems to eat most the fun money *sigh* Had to opt out of the nosework class too) but I convinced myself to enter friday night and sunday at a TDAA trial. Cross your fingers she knocks out her TIAD FINALLY and also her TG3. Needs 1 Q for TIAD and 2 for TG3.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

I love O. Well, I love Lars, too! You do such amazing work with your boys, MrsBoats. I'm very glad the judge let him do the chute again. And I'm so happy he wasn't hurt much/shaken at all!


----------



## Sibe

For the last month or so Denali has struggled with her weaves. Blowing by and jumping in at a random point. Unable to find the entrance, and no confident at all. Finally pulled out my 2x2s (which is how she learned) and worked entrances hard this last week, only getting up to 4 poles. I think we only skipped one day but we did a good 10-15 mins of weave training every day. Today in class I figured if she struggled I'd skip them and keep going at home until she was ready for 12 again but she ROCKED her poles today. I'm so super proud of her!!!   She is popping out when I get excited and say anything but when I could keep my mouth shut she was very focused and did extremely well. I'll keep working them every day at home, we have 2 weeks until a trial, then 2 weeks later another trial, and at the end of October is the Siberian Husky national we're entered in. She'll be ready.


----------



## sassafras

Squash likes to play jumps and weaves. We're doing 2x2, so they're not really weaves yet, but he likes playing them anyway.

Also, I am the proudest. There's a young Aussie in our class who can be a bit rude at times, and when we were taking our turn at weaves he temporarily slipped out of his owner's control and bum-rushed Squash. Although they grabbed his leash and got him back almost right away, I think he actually made a little contact as we were going by (like, a chest bump, no big deal). Squash didn't miss a beat, he just stayed with me like nothing had happened. He didn't even LOOK at the other dog. I love him so much. God bless stable, resilient dogs. 

So I ran around with him like an idiot in the room after everyone else had left and my husband was packing up the crate, because that's really his favorite game in the world. I think they could probably hear the roaring of a happy polar bear up there on the space station.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh man tonight was rough. She keeps POOPING ON THE FIELD. This is 3 weeks in a row! 

Every time it is her first run and then afterwards she gets a brain and does well. 

But dang.


----------



## MrsBoats

Sibe said:


> For the last month or so Denali has struggled with her weaves. Blowing by and jumping in at a random point. Unable to find the entrance, and no confident at all. Finally pulled out my 2x2s (which is how she learned) and worked entrances hard this last week, only getting up to 4 poles. I think we only skipped one day but we did a good 10-15 mins of weave training every day. Today in class I figured if she struggled I'd skip them and keep going at home until she was ready for 12 again but she ROCKED her poles today. I'm so super proud of her!!!   She is popping out when I get excited and say anything but when I could keep my mouth shut she was very focused and did extremely well. I'll keep working them every day at home, we have 2 weeks until a trial, then 2 weeks later another trial, and at the end of October is the Siberian Husky national we're entered in. She'll be ready.


Just something to think about...my friend with the agility pittie who is in Excellent was having an issue with weaves this summer that wasn't there before. It was actually an injury to her back that caused her to avoid weaves and pop out at random places. Julie spent most of July and August with a chiropractor putting Tillie back together...and the weave issue went away this last trial over the weekend. Julie (who is a small animal vet herself) thinks that T tweaked her back while retrieving bumpers in the lake...it wasn't an agility injury. Like I said, something to think about. 

Another friend of mine with Shelties has a dog that is in excellent and started to avoid and refuse the teeter. For two years....she tried and tried and tried to work through this teeter problem thinking it was a training issues or a temperament thing that developed. Nope...congenital problem with her spine that no one knew about until they did x-rays. No more teeters for her...and she's just doing jumpers classes and fast classes where there are no teeters on course. 

We all go immediately to it's a problem in the training when something falls apart that was previously rock solid. Sometimes, it may not be a training issue...but a health one. Do your huskies see a chiropractor or a sports vet regularly??


----------



## Laurelin

3 for 3 in eliminations in this trial. 

Oh well. Just glad to be running again with her after her seizure issues last trial.


----------



## sassafras

They're not straight and there are only 4, but he is learning some moves.


----------



## SDRRanger

sassafras said:


> They're not straight and there are only 4, but he is learning some moves.


Love this...you can see his brain working.


----------



## CptJack

Squash inspired me.


----------



## CptJack

Squash inspired me.


----------



## sassafras

Go Kylie!!


----------



## CptJack

I'm really proud of her. She skips poles once in a blue moon when she gets going really fast, but mostly we're fairly consistent at 6. I need to get her up to 12, but just haven't got teh space cleared yet.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer got 2/4 Qs today. No standard Qs (ARGH). We were one fault off both those runs (Wanna guess what tripped us up??? ) but the rest was good. We did get two games Qs so now she finished her TG3. Now we are working on her TMAG, whcih needs 10 games 3 Qs.

Eventually we will get out of intermediate... I hope.


----------



## sassafras

We are almost straight with 4 poles. They are still set up 2x2, but he really seems to get it. I don't know how anybody could teach weaves without having some poles of some kind at home (I just got the stick in the ground kind)... we practice at least once a day but if we were only practicing at class once a week it would take forever!


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> We are almost straight with 4 poles. They are still set up 2x2, but he really seems to get it. I don't know how anybody could teach weaves without having some poles of some kind at home (I just got the stick in the ground kind)... we practice at least once a day but if we were only practicing at class once a week it would take forever!


Yeah. Our instructor actually rolls the cost of stick in the ground weaves (also what mine are) into cost, and teaches them as a separate class because she said when she was trying to teach it for a few minutes a week, or even once a week without working on it at home, dogs just didn't get anywhere. 

Kylie got the idea pretty fast once we got going but we still have to practice more than once a week.


----------



## Laurelin

This is a total random post but does my sig say TG2 or TG3? I changed it but it's still showing on my computer as TG2....


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> This is a total random post but does my sig say TG2 or TG3? I changed it but it's still showing on my computer as TG2....


It's showing TG3.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Go Squash and Kylie! Good job on the weaves.

We are officially at 6 straight weaves. Sometimes Kairi doesn't find the entrance quite right if it is from a harder angle. I'm proud of her progress though and she is gaining confidence/speed.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Couple of recent videos, same short sequence with both dogs. 

Kimma:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=652155668216075

Jari:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=651167734981535

They both seem to dig the international turns!


----------



## Laurelin

Summer's inability to find the right side weaves is astounding. Especially considering she hits the left side well, strides well, and just generally... does well on the left. But the right? 

Summer no understand. /Derrrrrrrrppppp/

We went back to beginning and just worked on entrances

You can do 12 closed weaves on the left, why can you not go through one 2x2 on the right!?

She kept targeting them. Or just round and round running past them.

My trainer 'There's just something about that right side that she doesn't understand...'

No one can figure it out. My dog is weird.


----------



## trainingjunkie

My new boy had the same problem. It made me nuts. Now, I do 3 sets on the right for every set on the left. There's just something about being on "heel" side that melts his brain. It's getting much better, but MAN. I feel your pain.

Oh, and here he is!


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie Beautiful boy!!


----------



## trainingjunkie

kadylady said:


> trainingjunkie Beautiful boy!!


Thank you! He's been wonderful. I am so grateful that his former owner was willing to rehome him. He has been a true joy and is going to be a fabulous partner in crime.


----------



## LoMD13

I am loving all these weave shots!

Laurelin, Lola has trouble on the right side too. She can do them and she actually does them pretty fast, but she looks really stupid doing them because she looks up at me for a split second after each weave, sometimes barks at me, and then will race back in to avoid running into them. Doh. She doesn't do that at all on the left. 

She was kind of hilarious tonight actually. I made a mistake while running and stopped while coming up to a jump, anticipating a quick turn around. Lola SCREECHED on the brakes and scolded me. When I did it again and just slowed down instead of stopped, she did it perfectly. Bad human. 

We're still having tons of dog walk issues. She races up the incline, races down the decline- but the straight part she is worried about. She's still doing it and I'm jackpotting it, so I'm hoping she'll just get her confidence back the more we do it. (It wiggled on her once).


----------



## dogsule

Hey, I just found this thread. I joined the forum about a year ago or so but haven't been here in awhile now. Late last winter I started agility with our newest dog, Belle, what we think is an aussie/cocker mix. So far we have been through 16 one hour classes but have been on a break since the beginning of August (due to the building being used for something else). I am hoping we start back up in a week or so. They said mid Sept. Where I go to classes they just have a beginners class and a more advanced class that trains for competitions. Our classes are not real structured so to speak and we rarely work on the teeter or the weave poles which sort of frustrates me at times because Belle is so ready to work on them. The instructor is fine though if we work on them before or even sometimes during class. Belle loved the tunnels, jumps and A frame right off the bat but was terrified of the dog walk and the teeter at first. She now flies over the dog walk and is not scared of the teeter however she is hesitant to make it go down yet. Lots of treats help her through this though. At the last couple classes I had my daughter come with me and film Belle. It is funny I swear she knew she was being filmed and acted up because of it. Anyway here are a couple videos of her that I took back then (this was end of July/beginning of August) Hopefully they post ok.


Belle does the weaves at the end because I asked if she could. The other dogs did not do this part.
https://flic.kr/p/otoMEG


and one of just the weaves...I am pretty proud she learned this since we have only worked on it twice in class. I always have her do it each time we went though and it finally clicked! Is that good for only 16 classes or is that pretty normal for an agility dog to learn it that quickly? I know some people in class think she is a natural at this but I don't know what is the norm for learning this stuff. All I know is I am having a blast and so is Belle!


https://flic.kr/p/oeh9zM


I cannot wait to get back to classes again. Belle was spayed during our time off but she is raring to go again. Hopefully she hasn't lost any of what she learned.


----------



## Kyllobernese

The first video worked and your dog does really well. It always surprises me how fast dogs do learn the obstacles but usually the weaves are the hardest. You dog does them really well for so little training. I could not see the second video of her weaving for some reason. I don't think you will find she has forgotten anything. I love doing Agility with my Shih Tzu x Maltese, haven't started with my Doberman yet.


----------



## SDRRanger

Kyllobernese said:


> The first video worked and your dog does really well. It always surprises me how fast dogs do learn the obstacles but usually the weaves are the hardest. You dog does them really well for so little training. I could not see the second video of her weaving for some reason. I don't think you will find she has forgotten anything. I love doing Agility with my Shih Tzu x Maltese, haven't started with my Doberman yet.


It took Ranger 4 classes to even pay attention to the fact he was supposed to be doing something with the weave poles instead of just derping around with what I can only assume was his eyes closed lol. The first time he actually paid attention I was astounded. 

Had a good class this week. We even managed a line of 5 jumps with a good wait and me moving quickly enough to stay near-ish him. He also slowed down for the FIRST time ever coming down the dog walk and used his bum to stop. I definitely need to work on building up his hind end more so he's got some more muscle to stop himself. 

Also did some tunnel send outs (starting with a couple metres and working back to about 5m)...man he loves that tunnel


----------



## Sibe

No ribbons today, but I am *so* proud of Denali. She missed her weaves both runs but everything else was 100% perfect!!

Excellent Standard
Judge: Peter Liu
Course Yards: 180 Time: 63 seconds
Dog's Time: 0:56:43 Score: NQ
Faults - TmF: 0 R: 0 W: 0 T: 0 F: 1 E: 0

Excellent JWW Class
Judge: Peter Liu
Course Yards: 154 Time: 41 seconds
Dog's Time: 0:40:30 Score: NQ
Faults - TmF: 0 R: 1 W: 0 F: 0 E: 0


I really like Peter Liu, great courses and he's very nice!


----------



## So Cavalier

Did you do the local AKC trial? My trainer and my friend were competing this weekend. It was really hot today. There was also a CPE trial in Costa Mesa. Too hot! (The sportscaster on TV said it was 120 degrees on the football field during the Chargers game) Glad you had a good experience. We hung out at home in the AC. The quote says it all.


----------



## Sibe

So Cavalier said:


> Did you do the local AKC trial? My trainer and my friend were competing this weekend. It was really hot today. There was also a CPE trial in Costa Mesa. Too hot! (The sportscaster on TV said it was 120 degrees on the football field during the Chargers game) Glad you had a good experience. We hung out at home in the AC. The quote says it all.


 Yep! At NTC. I'm glad big dogs went first but still, it was 75* at 7:30am and got hotter and hotter. Of course I always want the Q, but I'm over doing it for ribbons and I'm over feeling like it's a waste of time/money if we don't Q. It's just fuuuuun now!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Sibe and Denali! Love the quote as well.

We played AKC this weekend, just Sunday. We entered T2B for the first time and I'm glad we did because it allowed her to get her zoomies out. Literally, pure zoomies. She loves turf and was very excited to play on turf. Video for giggles. If only you could see her zoomie face...






JWW went better, got disconnected in a few places but had lots of good handling in between. The places I was worried about handling wise went good and she got her weaves (on the second try, she blew by them first). Should have just gone on at the end when she took the tunnel but, hindsight...






And the highlight...we got our 3rd Novice Standard leg, therefore Novice Standard title! The A frame has been our achilles heel in standard and she had a great A-frame in this class! One bought of zoomies which resulted in our 2 refusals but we recovered well and she weaved GREAT! And holy crap she was fast coming down that last line of jumps!!! So fast that she doesn't stop and crashes the fence, but thank god didn't leave the ring. Fence came down and startled her and she came running back. I knew she would take off down that line but there was really just no way for me to get ahead of her having to be with her to finish the weaves. 






Very proud of her. She was way over the top a few times throughout the day but was able to pull it together and get it done. And I'm just really happy with the confidence and excitement she is showing in the ring. And holy crap the speed! 

Picture with the new title ribbon and her Standard Q ribbon.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Very nice! Congratulations! Looks like you had a blast! Welcome to Open!


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie said:


> Very nice! Congratulations! Looks like you had a blast! Welcome to Open!


Thanks!! It was a blast! Super fun venue and host club, lots of friends attended.


----------



## dogsule

Woohoo....just got the notice that agility starts back up a week from today! We cannot wait! Question for those of you that compete in agility. How long does it typically take from starting beginning agility, until you were able to start competing? We only have done two and a half session (six week sessions) then we had to break for about six weeks due to the building being used for something else. Now classes should run consecutively right up until next summer. I am kind of hoping that maybe in summer we will be able to try to do a competition. Belle does the tunnels, the A frame, the jumps, the chute and the dog walk really well. She has the weaves down but hesitates with the teeter yet. We really don't get that much work on the weaves or teeter though so time will tell. It really hasn't taken her long to get over her fear of any of the equipment. She also has pretty good focus on me throughout the courses we run but she runs so fast sometimes that I have a hard time keeping up and of course sometimes I give her mixed signals which I don't realize yet. I probably have more to learn than she does. LOL!


----------



## CptJack

Competing or competing successfully?

Kylie's first trial is about 10 months from her first agility class. I hear about a year or so is average for a lot of people, but that getting Qs often takes longer because trials are different experiences.


----------



## Laurelin

1-2 years is what I've been told is typical. 

Haha love Zoey's video!


----------



## kadylady

Zoey and I started training in Sept 2012 and went to our first competition Sept 2013. Another year later and we have successfully completed the AKC Novice classes, (we didn't start trialing AKC until April this year, we started in CPE and have done a mix of both since). We started with classes then as we got more experienced and closer to competing we added additional practice time.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Competing or competing successfully?
> 
> Kylie's first trial is about 10 months from her first agility class. I hear about a year or so is average for a lot of people, but that getting Qs often takes longer because trials are different experiences.




LOL, just competing. I have no clue what she will do in a whole new building with different equipment...lots of dogs and people. But I cannot wait to find out!!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> LOL, just competing. I have no clue what she will do in a whole new building with different equipment...lots of dogs and people. But I cannot wait to find out!!


Honestly? I've known people to GO TO trials and enter without any expectation of success from the time their dogs have been introduced to equipment. Just for the experience, and in the absence of show 'n goes (or fun matches or whatever). If I'd had the opportunity, I would have done this sooner.

And I STILL expect Kylie's first trial to be composed of warning the person after us and 'WE GOT ON THE FIELD AND DID A SEQUENCE PARTY!" and *leaving*.


----------



## dogsule

Thanks that is what I had thought was pretty typical. I suppose every dog is different though. Belle really seems made for this sport. Actually what made me really want to put her in agility was as she was growing up she was constantly jumping over the top of our other two dogs, always needs to be first no matter what is in her way. She also literally bounces off the furniture. As in running full blast jumping onto the couch and then bouncing off the back of it. Not the top, she runs up so her body is sideways across the back where you would have your back if you were sitting. I figured she needed an outlet. lol!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Honestly? I've known people to GO TO trials and enter without any expectation of success from the time their dogs have been introduced to equipment. Just for the experience, and in the absence of show 'n goes (or fun matches or whatever). If I'd had the opportunity, I would have done this sooner.
> 
> And I STILL expect Kylie's first trial to be composed of warning the person after us and 'WE GOT ON THE FIELD AND DID A SEQUENCE PARTY!" and *leaving*.



Wow, I don't think I would do that to myself or my dog, not yet anyway. I totally expect her to screw up but I don't want her to mess up because I messed her up, if that makes sense. I need to know what I am doing or supposed to be doing. I don't think our instructor would be for the going right to entering a trial. I would love to go to one though before we do enter any, just to see what it is like and maybe take Belle with me and see how she reacts to everything different.


----------



## Sibe

Congrats on the title!!!!!!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Wow, I don't think I would do that to myself or my dog, not yet anyway. I totally expect her to screw up but I don't want her to mess up because I messed her up, if that makes sense. I need to know what I am doing or supposed to be doing. I don't think our instructor would be for the going right to entering a trial. I would love to go to one though before we do enter any, just to see what it is like and maybe take Belle with me and see how she reacts to everything different.



Wait, what? Who's talking about screwing up? The dog doesn't screw up. You get them off the field before they freak out or do. The whole goal is to acclimate them to an environment and let them have some success in it by lowering your expectations.

And frankly if you get a Q or don't mess up your first trial you're an agility unicorn (maybe real but a really rare creature).


----------



## Sibe

dogsule said:


> Woohoo....just got the notice that agility starts back up a week from today! We cannot wait! Question for those of you that compete in agility. How long does it typically take from starting beginning agility, until you were able to start competing? We only have done two and a half session (six week sessions) then we had to break for about six weeks due to the building being used for something else. Now classes should run consecutively right up until next summer. I am kind of hoping that maybe in summer we will be able to try to do a competition. Belle does the tunnels, the A frame, the jumps, the chute and the dog walk really well. She has the weaves down but hesitates with the teeter yet. We really don't get that much work on the weaves or teeter though so time will tell. It really hasn't taken her long to get over her fear of any of the equipment. She also has pretty good focus on me throughout the courses we run but she runs so fast sometimes that I have a hard time keeping up and of course sometimes I give her mixed signals which I don't realize yet. I probably have more to learn than she does. LOL!


 Denali's first trial was about 7-8 months after she started training. During training she was young, she was just over at the minimum age requirement of 15 months when she started trialing at AKC events. She was always jumping low at 8-12" (she trials at 20) and only doing class once a week, practicing weaves at home, and I started going in an extra once a week for short periods to work on sequences (before she was a year old. She only started jumping 20" after she was a year old (and I no longer get extra training), a month or two before our first trial. She was young, all zoomies, we had fun but I wish I'd waited. First dog and first dog sport so it was hard for me to not rush her. She really wasn't ready for trials, she knew the obstacles but she was still so immature and spazzy and easily overwhelmed.


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> Denali's first trial was about 7-8 months after she started training. During training she was young, she was just over at the minimum age requirement of 15 months when she started trialing at AKC events. She was always jumping low at 8-12" (she trials at 20) and only doing class once a week, practicing weaves at home, and I started going in an extra once a week for short periods to work on sequences (before she was a year old. She only started jumping 20" after she was a year old (and I no longer get extra training), a month or two before our first trial. She was young, all zoomies, we had fun but I wish I'd waited. First dog and first dog sport so it was hard for me to not rush her. She really wasn't ready for trials, she knew the obstacles but she was still so immature and spazzy and easily overwhelmed.




Belle was a year old in April so is 17 months old now. I don't expect her to be competing until she is 2 so that should be good. She is really spazzy at home but so far has never been spazzy at class and there are some very spazzy dogs there! She has great focus on me and the equipment and doesn't take off on me at all. We do the stuff unleashed for the most part. I am afraid of her getting afraid of things though at a trail which would be good to take her just as an observer I guess.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Wait, what? Who's talking about screwing up? The dog doesn't screw up. You get them off the field before they freak out or do. The whole goal is to acclimate them to an environment and let them have some success in it by lowering your expectations.
> 
> And frankly if you get a Q or don't mess up your first trial you're an agility unicorn (maybe real but a really rare creature).



Ok, I really don't know all that much about agility except that it always looks fun! I am in it for the fun for the most part and to give Belle and outlet for all her excess energy. I guess I don't want to go and embarrass myself, starting before we are ready. However I can see how getting them acclimated to it would be good experience too. Explain a Q to me please.....


----------



## Laurelin

We Q'd twice our first trial in USDAA no less. It was our first time indoors, on dirt, and at anywhere other than our facility.

My first run with Summer I cut short. We did 5-6 obstacles and stopped short. She was fine and then the second run we got a Q. We only ran 4 runs over 2 days. No way would I start with a full trial weekend. I threw the first, she Q'd the 2nd and 3rd and was too tired for the 4th. 

You're going to get varying opinions on this. The competitive trainer here recommends 1-2 years. Depending on the dog and how well they do and age and other factors. She really wants to set up the first trial as a success. She wants the dog to have very very strong foundation work before going in that environment. You can cause a lot of issues trialling before you're ready. Probably not if you go in with ONLY the idea that you want the dog to walk away with a positive experience. But being too controlling and doing too much (like a full course right off the bat) could make trialling in the future difficult. I've seen quite a few dogs pushed past their limits and ending up super stressy about trialling. To run a trial your dog already has to LOVE the game and understand the game. Remember, no cookies are with you at a trial. The only focus on your first few trials should be getting the dog to connect with you and have fun. 

Some dogs melt down in a trial environment. It's different than classes by quite a bit. 

1) crazy environment- sounds smells, noise
2) other dogs being around and possibly running in other rings
3) no food or toy on the person
4) long courses, which are usually 16-21 obstacles (or at least most mine are)
5) Nerves


----------



## Laurelin

dogsule said:


> Ok, I really don't know all that much about agility except that it always looks fun! I am in it for the fun for the most part and to give Belle and outlet for all her excess energy. I guess I don't want to go and embarrass myself, starting before we are ready. However I can see how getting them acclimated to it would be good experience too. Explain a Q to me please.....


A Q means you qualified. Generally there is a set course you have to run without faults and under a specified course time to Q. In games classes there's usually some sort of amount of points you need + time limit to Q. (It's more complicated but that's the jist).

You have to get a certain amount of Qs to get a title and move up to the next level.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> We Q'd twice our first trial in USDAA no less. It was our first time indoors, on dirt, and at anywhere other than our facility.
> 
> My first run with Summer I cut short. We did 5-6 obstacles and stopped short. She was fine and then the second run we got a Q. We only ran 4 runs over 2 days. No way would I start with a full trial weekend. I threw the first, she Q'd the 2nd and 3rd and was too tired for the 4th.
> 
> You're going to get varying opinions on this. The competitive trainer here recommends 1-2 years. Depending on the dog and how well they do and age and other factors. She really wants to set up the first trial as a success. She wants the dog to have very very strong foundation work before going in that environment. You can cause a lot of issues trialling before you're ready. Probably not if you go in with ONLY the idea that you want the dog to walk away with a positive experience. But being too controlling and doing too much (like a full course right off the bat) could make trialling in the future difficult. I've seen quite a few dogs pushed past their limits and ending up super stressy about trialling. To run a trial your dog already has to LOVE the game and understand the game. Remember, no cookies are with you at a trial. The only focus on your first few trials should be getting the dog to connect with you and have fun.
> 
> Some dogs melt down in a trial environment. It's different than classes by quite a bit.
> 
> 1) crazy environment- sounds smells, noise
> 2) other dogs being around and possibly running in other rings
> 3) no food or toy on the person
> 4) long courses, which are usually 16-21 obstacles (or at least most mine are)
> 5) Nerves



Do even the beginners have 16-21 obstacles? I can say right now Belle LOVES this. We often run short courses of maybe 7-10 obstacles during class. I know one thing, Belle scares easily at weird noises so hopefully she will become more confident in this next year before we think about competing. That was one thing she hated about the teeter at first, the noise it made when it banged down. She would literally want to leave the building when she heard that when we would get there before the previous class got done. However I took this as a training tool and would treat her every time she heard that bang. She quickly became unafraid of the noise and will readily run up to the middle of the teeter but is hesitant to make it go down herself. She will with lots of treats though. Often right now when we run these short courses, I do not treat her until the end unless she is conquering something she doesn't like somewhere during the course.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> A Q means you qualified. Generally there is a set course you have to run without faults and under a specified course time to Q. In games classes there's usually some sort of amount of points you need + time limit to Q. (It's more complicated but that's the jist).
> 
> You have to get a certain amount of Qs to get a title and move up to the next level.



So what are faults in the world of agility. If the dogs stops before doing a jump or refuses it the first time but then gets it, is that a fault or no? Missing a contact is a fault, correct? If they miss one contact they wouldn't Q then? Or can they make that up on their time?


----------



## CptJack

All the courses are the same length/number of obstacles. The novice obstacles just don't require as many of things like crosses (changing which side of the dog you're on) or obstacle discrimination.

Also, and I say this as a newbie myself and gently as I can: you're going to be embarrassed by your dog. Take a look at some agility bloopers on youtube at some point. Dog getting zoomies, dogs going off course, dogs going to visit judges, dogs tripping you, dogs going to the bathroom on the course - even at high, high levels of competition. 

You're working with a dog. Stuff happens.


----------



## Laurelin

I know USDAA beginner courses are long. TDAA is shorter but I still think 16 obstacles.

If she's having teeter problems I would definitely not enter her in any classes with teeters until she is doing the full thing very happily in class (without treats). I see so many dogs with teeter issues in trials and owners trying to coax them over it. I think it hurts in the long term. Summer has never had any fear of the teeter but from my friends with dogs that do the only way to get them over it is to have a teeter at home to practice with.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> So what are faults in the world of agility. If the dogs stops before doing a jump or refuses it the first time but then gets it, is that a fault or no? Missing a contact is a fault, correct? If they miss one contact they wouldn't Q then? Or can they make that up on their time?


Missing a contact, refusing just adds time unless they do it repeatedly, popping out of the weaves, bailing on the teeter before it's on the ground, taking the wrong obstacle, handler/dog physical contact - basically they just mean mistakes. Refusals on their own isn't a fault though, just if they do it more than once (or twice? I can't remember).


----------



## Laurelin

CptJack said:


> All the courses are the same length/number of obstacles. The novice obstacles just don't require as many of things like crosses (changing which side of the dog you're on) or obstacle discrimination.
> 
> Also, and I say this as a newbie myself and gently as I can: you're going to be embarrassed by your dog. Take a look at some agility bloopers on youtube at some point. Dog getting zoomies, dogs going off course, dogs going to visit judges, dogs tripping you, dogs going to the bathroom on the course - even at high, high levels of competition.
> 
> You're working with a dog. Stuff happens.


Some venues have very different lengths. TDAA can have in the 20s on the level 3 courses but 15/16 (or maybe even less) on the beginner courses.

Summer peed during our last trial mid-run. It happens.


----------



## Laurelin

dogsule said:


> So what are faults in the world of agility. If the dogs stops before doing a jump or refuses it the first time but then gets it, is that a fault or no? Missing a contact is a fault, correct? If they miss one contact they wouldn't Q then? Or can they make that up on their time?


What counts as a fault depends on your venue and level. Some count refusals, others don't. Some give you 3 tries on the weaves, others don't. Some levels/venues you can Q with a refusal and others you can't. Generally:

Off course
Knocked Bars
Refusals
Missed weaves
Missed contacts



> Missing a contact, refusing just adds time unless they do it repeatedly, popping out of the weaves, bailing on the teeter before it's on the ground, taking the wrong obstacle, handler/dog physical contact - basically they just mean mistakes. Refusals on their own isn't a fault though, just if they do it more than once (or twice? I can't remember).


Depends on the venue and level. Some count refusals, some do not.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, obviously I mostly do/know NADAC and a little bit of AKC. 

And I just plain forgot knocked bars.


----------



## Laurelin

Side note: Whatever venue you try, READ THE RULES first. They vary a lot between organizations. There is pretty much nothing that is a flat rule in agility.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey's first trial was a CPE trial and for CPE in level 1 there are no weaves, no teeter and the courses are short and generally more flowing. Our very first class was colors, only 8 obstacles and very simple, flowing course. We had never been to this building before but it was the same type of building, flooring and setup as the club we train at so very similar, though still new. We only did one day, 2 classes. She Q'd in both her classes. Second class was standard, also very flowing course, 16 obstacles. 

For comparison... Here is the video of our very first trial. You can compare that to the videos I posted earlier today of our trial yesterday, just over a year later. (If you can see it, I have 2 playlists on my youtube account of all our trials, one for 2013 and one for 2014, in order. I like to go back occasionally and watch our progression) Her confidence has built enormously in that time and now we are having to learn how to apply all of this with speed!


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Side note: Whatever venue you try, READ THE RULES first. They vary a lot between organizations. There is pretty much nothing that is a flat rule in agility.


Yep. Down to what's allowed on the field. NADAC at least has 'containerized' trials, where the treat or toy CAN be on your person as long as it is in a sealed container, makes no noise and is not visible to the judge or dog and is not presented within 10 feet of the ring. So, for instance, Kylie is absolutely allowed to run while I have a pill bottle filled with liver in my pocket as long as it's out of sight and she doesn't get it until 10 feet away from the ring.


----------



## trainingjunkie

My very first trial, I ran two dogs in AKC novice standard, novice jumpers, and novice fast. I qualified in all 6 runs. 

I have never repeated that! 

I am a Unicorn!!!!  

I trained for 2 years before entering my first trial.


----------



## kadylady

Yeah, all venues are different it terms of the course types and rules and faults and pretty much everything. I only know CPE and AKC and I still always bring my rule book and am constantly checking. CPE and AKC both have shorter courses on the lower levels. CPE has much more flowing courses and is much more lenient in faults, which is why we started in CPE. AKC does count refusals every time and you can only have a certain number depending on the level. In my Novice Standard run Zoey had 2 refusals, both times because she ran around the obstacle rather than taking the obstacle. But we still got the Q because I believe in Nov Std 2 R's are allowed. I'm still learning all the rules myself so I certainly won't try to explain them all, I just know some of the differences between the 2 venues I compete in.


----------



## Laurelin

I wish we had CPE here. It sounds like a great starter venue. TDAA beginner courses are super simple too.


I need to get off my butt and enter AKC but I just.... EH..... I need to though. I think of the 'big dog' venues, their courses would be easiest for us. It's slightly slower than USDAA, which would be nice for tiny elderly dog.

Teacup gets poo-poo'd a lot but the level 3 courses can be really HARD. Our last trial was really hard.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> I wish we had CPE here. It sounds like a great starter venue.


It's wonderful and I'm so glad we have it here. And I still play there because 1) its fun but 2) the courses are really good confidence boosters for us both. They are usually more flowing and less "twisty" than the AKC courses so we can work on things there that might be more difficult to work on in an AKC course. Plus I like with some of the games you are basically making up your own courses and I can choose my course based on what I want to work on.

My club is actually hosting a CPE trial this coming weekend. Outside, which Zoey apparently loves.


----------



## dogsule

I was just looking at the agility trials nearest us and it looks like they do AKC agility.


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> I was just looking at the agility trials nearest us and it looks like they do AKC agility.


I definitely encourage you to go watch some trials and if possible volunteer to help out. You can learn so so so much by watching and helping. I personally love to bar set because I get to sit in the ring and get a close up view of what's going on and how people are handling certain sequences and what works/what doesn't. Most clubs are always looking for volunteers to help run a trial and are willing to train you on a job.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> I definitely encourage you to go watch some trials and if possible volunteer to help out. You can learn so so so much by watching and helping. I personally love to bar set because I get to sit in the ring and get a close up view of what's going on and how people are handling certain sequences and what works/what doesn't. Most clubs are always looking for volunteers to help run a trial and are willing to train you on a job.



Awesome idea! Our kennel club runs trials I think in Feb and June, not in our town though...in a town about 2 hours from here =( Maybe I will volunteer to help with the Feb one.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY! Congrats kadylady 



trainingjunkie said:


> My very first trial, I ran two dogs in AKC novice standard, novice jumpers, and novice fast. I qualified in all 6 runs.
> 
> I have never repeated that!
> 
> I am a Unicorn!!!!
> 
> I trained for 2 years before entering my first trial.


I'm a Unicorn, too! Kimma and I were 4/4 our first weekend, with 1st places each run 

I know for a fact I will not repeat that again, though LOL. We had been training for a year and a half before we trialed. In comparison, I started working with Jari sooner (started him with baby puppy foundation things when he was about 7-8 months and he's now 19 months) but it's going to take longer than a total of a year and a half for him to get his brain together. Silly boy


----------



## LoMD13

I thought we'd try our own weaving video. Oh well, we tried haha.


----------



## sassafras

I'm planning on YouTube infamy if and when our first trial ever happens.


ETA: Oh god Lo. *dies*


----------



## CptJack

I had planned on it but I don't think I can, now. If Michael's in sight I kind of, um. Lose Kylie. 

Awkward.


----------



## LoMD13

sassafras said:


> ETA: Oh god Lo. *dies*


As we were told in our first agility trial, "Cute, But not desirable" Hahahahaha.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Oh that Lo dog <3


----------



## Laurelin

We had a good time tonight and I *Think* may have had a breakthrough with her right hand weaves. Still slow and too lured for my tastes but she at least wasn't trying to do them on her back legs this week.... Her left side weaves hit every time perfectly. We did some good little sequences. She jumped her contacts twice. But really it was a great class and we had a lot of fun. 

God I love that dog. She's so good.


----------



## SDRRanger

Ranger and I had a great lesson on Tuesday. I finally decided that 'we' (see what I did there trainingjunkie) cannot manage sequences that cover a lot of ground. I can't make it to him in time or ahead of him enough so we're not able to connect so instead of doing the full sequence, we do a piece of it. It meant that we had a class of great stays, connection, properly timed rewards, and successes. He is even trying to add some speed to the weaves on his own which I think is partially to do with his confidence building as we're hitting more successes throughout the class. 

The trainer has no problems doing it this way which means I think we'll be able to keep going to agility.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Ain't "we" great! Thanks!

How are your rear-cross skills? Can the two of you run rear crosses well? If you have a fast dog, your team either needs the ability to send and perform independently or you really need to be able to handle from behind. Both skills are trainable.

Here is a run where I hang back and cover very little ground compared to my fast dog. Being able to handle from behind like this has made agility possible for us. We hit a bar, but were otherwise clean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnmYfx4g-Fo

If the two of you can learn to connect even when you're behind, it might open up some doors! Plus it's fun!


----------



## MrsBoats

trainingjunkie said:


> Ain't "we" great! Thanks!
> 
> How are your rear-cross skills? Can the two of you run rear crosses well? If you have a fast dog, your team either needs the ability to send and perform independently or you really need to be able to handle from behind. Both skills are trainable.
> 
> Here is a run where I hang back and cover very little ground compared to my fast dog. Being able to handle from behind like this has made agility possible for us. We hit a bar, but were otherwise clean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnmYfx4g-Fo
> 
> If the two of you can learn to connect even when you're behind, it might open up some doors! Plus it's fun!


^^^ This. I drive Lars and Ocean from behind and use primarily rear crosses to turn the guys. Or, what I will do is send them to something (because they have no problem working away from me) while I get myself some place on course where I'm ahead of them. I will never be able to beat them while running. 











Everyone will tell you it's hard to run a fast dog...and it is. You're going want to play with handling from behind and using more rear crosses. I have spent too much time trying to fit my dogs into handling systems that work for dogs who are slower and with less drive. It doesn't work. I've more or less decided to go rouge and figure out my own handling system that will work for them.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Amen MrsBoats! 

My new dog is much faster than Gator. We need to learn to run with me handling from behind and we have to absolutely be able to send. That's it! If we don't get those skills down, there's no point in me ever writing out a check for an entry fee. 

By comparison, here is my Hootie finally getting her Ex JWW title: Look at how closely I could handle! I will so miss running her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zD7i8YALBs

Man I miss running her, even though she was most definitely not an agility dog.


----------



## LoMD13

Thanks to MrsBoats for reminding us about the run-thrus at our home turf! Shows how much I pay attention. We didn't get to see Ocean run because we were non-registered stragglers, but we got to meet him! SUCH a cool dude and so handsome. Lola likes her Rottweiler friends. (And also their treat crumbs) 

As for Lo, I decided to kind of treat it like a trial because that's where our main issues are and to see if our trial hiatus has helped any. The result? Still not as fast as class, but I think she did fantastic and if she can be like this in a trial I'd be thrilled.


----------



## SDRRanger

trainingjunkie said:


> Ain't "we" great! Thanks!
> 
> How are your rear-cross skills? Can the two of you run rear crosses well? If you have a fast dog, your team either needs the ability to send and perform independently or you really need to be able to handle from behind. Both skills are trainable.


We haven't done a lot of work on them yet, but I can definitely see how much easier it would be to have them work up ahead especially with freight train dogs lol. I've been incorporating more send out work (like a table, circling a cone, etc) and he's becoming more comfortable with it. Is handling exercises something I can do with him at home using poles on the ground or something since I don't have access to jumps?


----------



## trainingjunkie

SDRRanger said:


> We haven't done a lot of work on them yet, but I can definitely see how much easier it would be to have them work up ahead especially with freight train dogs lol. I've been incorporating more send out work (like a table, circling a cone, etc) and he's becoming more comfortable with it. Is handling exercises something I can do with him at home using poles on the ground or something since I don't have access to jumps?


You could, but I think you might want to consider buying or making 3 or 4 jumps! Life will be easier!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Tonight was just one of those nights where Kairi and I were really connected. She does such a good job of reading my body language. All it takes is a slightly different hand gesture to send her into another obstacle, or to the back of a jump instead of straight forward over it. It's just really cool to see all the dots connecting and to have such great focus lately out of this crazy dog. Agility is really such a great way to bond and has really taught us to understand each other a little better. More people should get involved in these sports. I can't believe I missed out all these years.


----------



## dogsule

So Belle and I started agility last night again. She previously had 16 one hour classes and then had a six week break. She was spayed in this time and of course 4 weeks post spay she ends up with an infection in her incision! Vet said it was fine to go to agility though. Normally I had been in the beginning agility classes and we just ran small courses starting out with maybe 3 things and going up to 8 or less. Well no one else had signed up for beginning agility so I was in the more advanced class. The trainer had a 13 obstacle course set up and I must say Belle did awesome. I think I had a harder time than Belle, at one point for a second or two I totally forgot where I was supposed to go. lol! Belle was awesome on the weaves which I was wondering if she would remember or not as she had just got it towards the end of the last session she had. Oh and she got to jump at 16" last night vs the 8" they had for the beginners class. I was worried she would just run under the jump....no worries she never even tried to go under. 


So I know everyone says different things to cue their dogs for different obstacles but what command do you use for the A frame or the dog walk? I say over for the jumps, tunnel for the tunnels and weave for the weave poles. I know you show them with your arm/hand where they should be going but most people say what to do also? I guess I wasn't paying attention last night to what others were saying for the A-frame. I don't even remember what I said, maybe up?? I don't remember, how bad is that? There was a set of jumps that when we first went over them they then went to the A frame but the second time they went to the weaves after the jump. 


I think we did pretty good for going right into a 13 obstacle course, we had lots of fun anyway and Belle was pooped out afterwards.


----------



## SDRRanger

dogsule said:


> So Belle and I started agility last night again. She previously had 16 one hour classes and then had a six week break. She was spayed in this time and of course 4 weeks post spay she ends up with an infection in her incision! Vet said it was fine to go to agility though. Normally I had been in the beginning agility classes and we just ran small courses starting out with maybe 3 things and going up to 8 or less. Well no one else had signed up for beginning agility so I was in the more advanced class. The trainer had a 13 obstacle course set up and I must say Belle did awesome. I think I had a harder time than Belle, at one point for a second or two I totally forgot where I was supposed to go. lol! Belle was awesome on the weaves which I was wondering if she would remember or not as she had just got it towards the end of the last session she had. Oh and she got to jump at 16" last night vs the 8" they had for the beginners class. I was worried she would just run under the jump....no worries she never even tried to go under.
> 
> 
> So I know everyone says different things to cue their dogs for different obstacles but what command do you use for the A frame or the dog walk? I say over for the jumps, tunnel for the tunnels and weave for the weave poles. I know you show them with your arm/hand where they should be going but most people say what to do also? I guess I wasn't paying attention last night to what others were saying for the A-frame. I don't even remember what I said, maybe up?? I don't remember, how bad is that? There was a set of jumps that when we first went over them they then went to the A frame but the second time they went to the weaves after the jump.
> 
> 
> I think we did pretty good for going right into a 13 obstacle course, we had lots of fun anyway and Belle was pooped out afterwards.



For the dog walk I say "Walk it" and for the A-frame I say "climb it".


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, I just use walk and climb.


----------



## Sibe

Oh miss Nali, you so poofy.


----------



## kadylady

We played CPE this weekend, our club hosted an outdoor trial. Zoey was a little stressy this weekend. We've been to this site outside before but the weather was weird this weekend, very windy, storms rolling in around the area, and I'm thinking that may have been a stress contributor. So our goal became to just simply go out and run! When she stresses her tunnel avoidance comes back out and she struggles with the weaves. And for me the hardest part mentally is just moving on rather than insisting we complete the obstacle in question, but I was able to do that a few times! And it was hard! But she needed it. Couple of runs to share...

First run of the weekend, Standard Level 3, went pretty good until my awful front cross right into her line to the weave poles and then we really just totally disconnected on the ending.






Standard Level 3 Round 2, better. I stayed out of her way on the weaves better, she was slower than I would have liked but I chalk that up to me slamming into her way on the previous run.






Wildcard Level 3, couple issues in the beginning, I didn't force the weaves, we just continued on, and my favorite part is how she opens up coming down that line of jumps. Yay!






Jackpot Level 3, this was the first run Sunday, obviously my little crazy pants was back lol good to know she can take jumps at such weird angles and keep her bars up...






Overall good weekend with lots of learning.


----------



## SDRRanger

We had a really good class last night (make up class from the session). Our pre class warm up was probably one of the best we've ever had with Ranger even paying attention to the humps (cavaletti) when we went through them. 

On table work he was a little distracted and wanted to bounce over it instead of staying on it but we got a couple good ones. Also, he kept his bum on the teeter instead of schlepping off the side. Had a great jump-jump-tire-jump-tunnel sequence with him going out ahead of me. 

We work the weaves in a "chute" so they (I assume) start muscle memory and Ranger has finally gotten the idea of it...he's adding his own speed and charges out for his thrown bait toy at the end. Also worked on a tunnel or jump before the weaves to work on connecting to the dog and them finding the entry. Never thought in a million years he'd collect after the tunnel, but he did. 

The dog that doesn't like Ranger went after him in class again. No contact, but he definitely blew off his owner and charged him/us. After that Ranger was quite anxious/stressed/amped and wanted to keep his eye on the dog. It was close to the end of class so we did a couple quick exercises and headed out. 

This session is done, and I've sent an email to the centre requesting to be moved to a different class if possible (or we'll take a break). I love agility, and so does Ranger but I am supposed to be the one keeping him safe and I can't in that situation. He's great with other dogs (perhaps sometimes a bit obnoxious with his barking) and I have a lot of fosters in and out...don't want him becoming reactive to dogs and don't want him feeling stressed in the ring, so we'll see.


----------



## pawsaddict

Today was Nova's first day of agility class, or first day of school, as I was calling it  She did SO great! I was so nervous that we were going to be "that pair" in the class, but she made me such a proud momma.

We practiced a very low bar jump, some weave poles, and the tunnel. She was nervous around each piece of equipment at first, but she quickly got past it. In fact, she was the only dog in the class (of 3, lol) to go through the tunnel all by herself! 

We definitely have to work on her jumping up on me when she is scared or too excited, and we still need to improve our LLW, but I think this class will really help boost her confidence. Thanks for reading!

And, because I think I'm clever, here is Nova's "first day of school" photo


----------



## MrsBoats

SDRRanger said:


> We haven't done a lot of work on them yet, but I can definitely see how much easier it would be to have them work up ahead especially with freight train dogs lol. I've been incorporating more send out work (like a table, circling a cone, etc) and he's becoming more comfortable with it. Is handling exercises something I can do with him at home using poles on the ground or something since I don't have access to jumps?


Wait....what? You don't have jumps at home? If you really want to do agility...you really need at least jumps at home to practice handling with. They are really pretty cheap to make too from 1" PVC you get at the hardware store. I made all of my agility jumps I have here...I made 6. With a fast dog...you have to practice outside of class because there's no other way you will get the timing right in a reasonable amount of time. I couldn't imagine trying to run agility with my two if the only place we did agility was at class. It would be so insanely frustrating and I would probably dump the sport all together. You really need to build yourself 3 to 4 jumps for home.


----------



## Sibe

Nali was a mess at the trial today. JWW was mostly great, started with a straight line of 4 jumps (double at the end) then a 180 into weaves. She did the first 3, refusal as she stopped to sniff, then after doing the double decided weaves were optional. The rest of the run was beautiful. But Standard... ugh. Jump jump, sniff, tunnel, jump, dogwalk, sniff, jump, jump, A frame, sniff, tunnel, jump, sniff/optional weaves, jump, table, jump, chute, teeter, sniff, tire, jump.


----------



## SDRRanger

MrsBoats said:


> Wait....what? You don't have jumps at home? If you really want to do agility...you really need at least jumps at home to practice handling with. They are really pretty cheap to make too from 1" PVC you get at the hardware store. I made all of my agility jumps I have here...I made 6. With a fast dog...you have to practice outside of class because there's no other way you will get the timing right in a reasonable amount of time. I couldn't imagine trying to run agility with my two if the only place we did agility was at class. It would be so insanely frustrating and I would probably dump the sport all together. You really need to build yourself 3 to 4 jumps for home.


Ha, yes I know...agility training and no jumps at home. Honestly, to begin with it was because I was scared I'd mess him up doing things without people watching me, but I've been feeling more confident lately (and been reading Agility Right From the Start over again...it makes way more sense now that I've done a few classes). The next building plan was for a couple jumps (I was thinking two, but do you think doubling it would make a difference?) We did set up makeshift jumps outside a few times to work on things, but real jumps would definitely make things easier. 

Is there a good plan on line for making them?


----------



## Sibe

Do you want one super adjustable? For Denali instead of making it with the cups to hold the bar all the way up the posts, it has cups at 12" and at 20" since she jumps 20. I just used T connectors, the part that hold the jump bar I cut the top half off so it's an open cup if that makes sense. Used blue painters tape for the stripes.

On mine, the 12" bar is what holds it together, that bar is attached and wouldn't fall off if hit. Safer to have a bar along the floor so all jump bars can fall. I've never had issue (knock on wood) but do plan to make new better safer jumps.


----------



## SDRRanger

Sibe said:


> Do you want one super adjustable? For Denali instead of making it with the cups to hold the bar all the way up the posts, it has cups at 12" and at 20" since she jumps 20. I just used T connectors, the part that hold the jump bar I cut the top half off so it's an open cup if that makes sense. Used blue painters tape for the stripes.
> 
> On mine, the 12" bar is what holds it together, that bar is attached and wouldn't fall off if hit. Safer to have a bar along the floor so all jump bars can fall. I've never had issue (knock on wood) but do plan to make new better safer jumps.


That looks really nice, Sibe! I see what you mean about putting the solid bar down at the bottom though. I wouldn't mind them being fixed if I could make maybe a 10-12, 16-18, and a 20-24 height for as needed. (Ranger is 24-25" tall I believe, but I will remeasure him....we jump 16 in class currently)


----------



## LoMD13

Lola has been SO fast and fun in classes lately. Her weaves are looking fantastic on both sides. 

But man do I need to practice ketshkers this week. The whole move just feels so unnatural to me, I've seen it done a million times and I still can't figure out where I need to be and where Lo needs to be.n


----------



## SDRRanger

Ranger had a good class on Tuesday despite being over excited and bouncy. He's getting more mouthy (barking) at me when excited so we worked on lots of treats for quietly waiting. Worked on tunnel angle entrances, and jumping. They've set up an xpen for Ranger to chill out in while schnauzer is running and it worked really well. He came over once, but since he couldn't get to Ranger, Ranger was quite happy ignoring him and taking treats. 

Looking to make some jumps next week/weekend once the infirmary of fosters leave.


----------



## Tashapaws

Long time no post! 
So Tasha and I have started agility again, after the summer break. We've been working on motivation and some crosses, and she's been super focused for the last three clases. I'm really impressed, and I am looking forward for the time when we start to take jumps from behind. 
Also, she loves the table. 

And Sibe, that's a great-looking jump!


----------



## Laurelin

In agility this week Summer did good but got tired and gave up on our weaves the last run. Kind of frustrating but other than that she was great. I love my old dog.

Today we did some good send outs and wraps in the living room. She was sending very happily from about 10' which is kind of a huge deal for her. She's very clingy on course. Yeah I kinda like my new mostly furniture less living room. 

I ALSO have started some work with Hank. I've told my trainer as soon as she has a pre agility class coming up, I want in. I think there should be one soon because there's a tonnnn of puppies around right now. 

Anyways we got out the jump stand (no bar). He was very apprehensive at first. I think he doesn't quite get that training is FUN and not super serious business. But once I got him over his fear of not knowing what to do and showed him what to do, he went FLYING through the stand happily every time. Then he would work for his stuffie and then back to food. He's starting to grasp the clicker very well. We've got a good sit, down, and working on a stay. Also he can spin to the left and the right. Tug on command and release on command. His hand touches are probably his favorite thing. He gets so excited when I hold out my hand for him. I think he's going to be a fun dog.

Someone needs to come teach him leash manners and no jumping cause I suck at that. lol

I also did some sends with Mia because why not. And handstands.


----------



## GrinningDog

I miss agility. So does Gyp. I'm sad that we'll probably have to start from scratch in 2 years when I'm out of school.  That is all.


----------



## kadylady

Our short break after our last trial has turned into a little bit longer one than I planned as Zoey sliced her paw pad open a week ago! It's finally starting to heal up and our classes finally start back up on Thursday but not sure if she will be ready yet. Thankfully our next trial isn't until the 18th and I *think/hope* she should be 100% healed by then, as long as I can continue to keep her relatively quiet. She's been really good but starting to get pretty stir crazy. She got to come out and demo a few things in my puppy class last night and was so excited to work with me.


----------



## SDRRanger

kadylady said:


> Our short break after our last trial has turned into a little bit longer one than I planned as Zoey sliced her paw pad open a week ago! It's finally starting to heal up and our classes finally start back up on Thursday but not sure if she will be ready yet. Thankfully our next trial isn't until the 18th and I *think/hope* she should be 100% healed by then, as long as I can continue to keep her relatively quiet. She's been really good but starting to get pretty stir crazy. She got to come out and demo a few things in my puppy class last night and was so excited to work with me.


Do you have a boot she could wear to protect it? That's what I did with Ranger when he cut his toe almost to the bone (after almost a full two weeks off).


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

kadylady said:


> Our short break after our last trial has turned into a little bit longer one than I planned as Zoey sliced her paw pad open a week ago! It's finally starting to heal up and our classes finally start back up on Thursday but not sure if she will be ready yet. Thankfully our next trial isn't until the 18th and I *think/hope* she should be 100% healed by then, as long as I can continue to keep her relatively quiet. She's been really good but starting to get pretty stir crazy. She got to come out and demo a few things in my puppy class last night and was so excited to work with me.


I dealt with sliced pads not that long ago. They were taking forever to heal, then I put some mushers secret on them. They healed much faster with it for some reason. I'd give that a try if you haven't already!


----------



## kadylady

SDRRanger said:


> Do you have a boot she could wear to protect it? That's what I did with Ranger when he cut his toe almost to the bone (after almost a full two weeks off).


I do have a boot but she really hates it and tends to limp more with it. The class we are taking is full courses so if she's still limping I don't want to be doing a bunch with her. Last night I let her run around a bit with Luke at the building to see how she held up on the matted floor and she did good. Only a very slight limp a few times and her paw held up really well, didn't open back up at all. So we shall see. 



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I dealt with sliced pads not that long ago. They were taking forever to heal, then I put some mushers secret on them. They healed much faster with it for some reason. I'd give that a try if you haven't already!


Thanks for the tip! I will have to get some of that and try it, wanting to get some for the coming winter anyways. The cut was deep so took a little longer to heal but I think we are almost there, the actual wound is finally closed and new skin growing. Been using vetericyn and EMT gel on it and that seems to be doing pretty good.


----------



## sassafras

Tonight we were practicing crosses and send outs between three jumps in a "pinwheel" setup. Sort of like this ____ | ____ but with the middle one farther away (up) from the other two than I am capable of drawing here without an obnoxious amount of space in the post.

One couple brought their mother and when it was our turn I heard her say something like "that dog is really good about knowing where she wants him to go" and my heart grew three sizes. Then later my husband, who has been coming to classes lately, said "Squash is actually doing really good" and it would have been nicer without the slightly surprised tone but he's the king of understatement so I'll take it.


----------



## trainingjunkie

That's great! It's so fun when it starts to come together! He has to be super-cute jumping! Such a wall of white!


----------



## SDRRanger

We had a good class this week. We did some work on cavaletti which should have been four bounces and Ranger thought looked better in three *covers face*. Our instructor did comment on his level of enthusiasm though, so we have that going for us right? 

Having the x pen for Ranger has been great too. His nemesis did try to come over a few times, but with the gate there he couldn't reach us and we've been developing a really great "watch me" with high level of distraction. 

This weekend is packed with Canadian thanksgiving stuff so hoping next week or the weekend after to pick up the stuff I need for a couple of training jumps.


----------



## kadylady

Whoo! Zoey was a rockstar tonight!! I really thought she was going to be a nutcase since we haven't done hardly anything in 2 weeks. But we came out and did the first course and she just nailed the whole thing! And it was a tricky course! She rocked her weaves, did a beautiful 2o2o on the A frame. Just perfect. I'm still in like shock over it because I was so expecting her to just go zoomie crazy. The rest of the class I modified the courses to keep her off the contact equipment as I noticed her limp a little on the dog walk. I think the contact surface just bothered her tender paw because she was fine with everything (did lower her jump height tonight just to be safe). She was so happy to be back though.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

We have started agility too! Josefina had some confidence issues but she did try everything I asked her to do except the chute tunnel  but I hope she will get it.


----------



## CptJack

Molly is, as of now, learning how to go through a tunnel, target, and get out.

She'll start classes mid January, a year after Kylie went back. Kylie will probably pick up a beginner class then, since it's what's likely to be offered. She could probably use some refreshing for the equipment we don't have, anyway.

I know all of this mostly because the instructor emailed and asked if we'd died (well, not literally but basically). Nope, just got crazy busy and kinda broke. Whoops?


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> Molly is, as of now, learning how to go through a tunnel, target, and get out.
> 
> She'll start classes mid January, a year after Kylie went back. Kylie will probably pick up a beginner class then, since it's what's likely to be offered. She could probably use some refreshing for the equipment we don't have, anyway.
> 
> I know all of this mostly because the instructor emailed and asked if we'd died (well, not literally but basically). Nope, just got crazy busy and kinda broke. Whoops?


Kylie has confidence issues as well doesn't she? Josefina does to and has issues with the chute tunnel, how did you get her over it? I need some tips to work on this as homework BTW classes.


----------



## CptJack

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Kylie has confidence issues as well doesn't she? Josefina does to and has issues with the chute tunnel, how did you get her over it? I need some tips to work on this as homework BTW classes.


Kylie's issues are mostly related to people than environmental stuff, in general, but she was pretty weird about the tunnel for a while (weirdly? Fine with the chute). 

To be honest, the things that got her through/over it were having someone else release her so she could be coming TO me instead of having to leave me, getting it on a verbal command, and buying a fairly cheap tunnel to use at home. Basically, new place, new people, not being able to see me, having to run AWAY from me, were all just too much for her. Letting her know it was a concrete THING re: command and breaking the rest down worked wonders. Also, of course, lots of food treats and praise. Throwing toys out front of the tunnel so as she came out she was running toward a toy AND me, once she had gained some confidence with it to start with helped, too.


----------



## Laurelin

Chute tunnels are usually introduced slowly and not until after tunnels are well understood. We prop the chute open and start with a small chute (USDAA has a long one). As the dog is going through the open chute we will start dropping the cloth on them until they are used to the feeling of the cloth falling on them and also pushing through the cloth. It is a slow process. 

The first 5-6 weeks the only equipment you'll see is a tunnel, jump stand, and wobble board. It takes probably around 12 weeks before you see all the equipment. Chute tunnel and teeter are in my experience the two dogs have the most problems with. So we introduce those slowly.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Lol she did better with the teeter then she did with the chute. The trainer didn't make any of the dogs do it, just showed them all the dogs. I was thinking of making a home made one using an old barrel and a shower curtain lol, and gradually lengthen it as she gains confidence.


----------



## sassafras

We started with the chute with the nylon part pushed back and open so it was essentially just a really short tunnel. Then gradually lengthened it, at first with someone holding it open at each increment. Squash doesn't give a crap about stuff like that anyway, but it worked really well for the more sensitive dogs.

Years ago I took a "for fun" agility class with Maisy, and she was nervous about a LOT of the equipment - EXCEPT the teeter. It made no sense to me whatsoever, but she would climb up and down that thing like it was nothing, and would default to it when she didn't want to do another obstacle. She even found the point where she could balance without tipping it over and would just run up and stand on it like a little mountain goat surveying her domain. Weirdo.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Chute tunnels are usually introduced slowly and not until after tunnels are well understood. We prop the chute open and start with a small chute (USDAA has a long one). As the dog is going through the open chute we will start dropping the cloth on them until they are used to the feeling of the cloth falling on them and also pushing through the cloth. It is a slow process.
> 
> The first 5-6 weeks the only equipment you'll see is a tunnel, jump stand, and wobble board. It takes probably around 12 weeks before you see all the equipment. Chute tunnel and teeter are in my experience the two dogs have the most problems with. So we introduce those slowly.


Oh. Yeah. I didn't even catch how early in the game it was. We had an entire 7 week class where the dogs saw an open tunnel, and the bottom bit of an a-frame (they hop on a low table beside the a-frame, and then walk down to 2o2o position). But that is really, really, it. 

The rest is all off leash handling, really. Flat work and being able to send the dog where you want them to go and getting them reading your body language.



sassafras said:


> Years ago I took a "for fun" agility class with Maisy, and she was nervous about a LOT of the equipment - EXCEPT the teeter. It made no sense to me whatsoever, but she would climb up and down that thing like it was nothing, and would default to it when she didn't want to do another obstacle. She even found the point where she could balance without tipping it over and would just run up and stand on it like a little mountain goat surveying her domain. Weirdo.


Kylie did this. She didn't see the teeter for ages or very much, but man once she did she loved that thing once she was taught how to tip it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

OwnedbyACDS - Kairi has only went into an 'open' chute so far during class (meaning the cloth part is barely draped down with someone holding it) and we are just now starting intermediate classes. If you are just doing this for fun, it's not really a big deal, but I would like to see a place do a little more foundation/handling work and less leaping into the obstacles. We did a wobble board before touching the teeter, and when we did the teeter is was barely off the ground. If your dog is not comfortable with a closed chute, don't force them through it yet. Build confidence in tunnels. Have someone hold the cloth open in the chute.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> OwnedbyACDS - Kairi has only went into an 'open' chute so far during class (meaning the cloth part is barely draped down with someone holding it) and we are just now starting intermediate classes. If you are just doing this for fun, it's not really a big deal, but I would like to see a place do a little more foundation/handling work and less leaping into the obstacles. We did a wobble board before touching the teeter, and when we did the teeter is was barely off the ground. If your dog is not comfortable with a closed chute, don't force them through it yet. Build confidence in tunnels. Have someone hold the cloth open in the chute.


That's what we did, just introducing her to it. The trainer held her while I held the closed part open and still no dice . I just think it was more a fact of that she didn't understand what was expected of her than fear of the obstacle itself. I think if I could have reached her leash and given her a gentle tug in the right direction I think she would have done it. And she is really good at doing what's asked of her once she understands.


----------



## sassafras

TIL that one advantage to a tall dog is that I can hip check him back into the weaves if he starts to pop out.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer got her TIAD (intermediate standard) title FINALLY! We just did one day this weekend. I'm pooped with all the stuff going on. We ended up with 2 Qs and had a nice day.

Hank handled the trial FANTASTICALLY. I'm really pleased with how responsive and confident he was. Not so pleased with the crate shrieking or the jumping up on people or wanting to chase fast dogs but he improved a lot over the day and it was his first trial. i'm impressed with this guy and a lot of the agility folk were impressed as well with his focus and temperament.


On a sadder note I am seriously considering retiring Summer from agility completely.  I just... I don't know. I love it and it would suck to retire her now because we'd be looking at a year or two before competing with Hank (hopefully). I don't know when the next set of classes start up so no telling when Hank will actually start up. 

But Summer has been aging a lot this last 6 months. I've only noticed it the last few months. Both her seizures (she's had 3 now, had another in September) and also just some other factors here and there. Sleeping more, grayer, snoring more, etc. She peed in the ring once and inside the tunnel once too. I'm seeing some signs of incontinence and also she just is running slower and acting less enthused. I AM going to wait a few weeks. We have a ring rental soon and also classes. I don't know if the stress of the move + Hank is part of the reason or not. 3 weeks ago she was flying in class. The last two weeks have not been good. This trial was ok. The morning was good but the afternoon not at all. At the least I think we may be done with big dog agility and just stick to doing a couple runs at local teacup trials. One lady gave me a supplement name so I'm going to test it out. She says she used it with her 13 year old ACD and she's gotten a lot more active since. 

But it sucks. It's not something I wanted to think about for at the least another year or so.

Two of my friends are retiring their dogs soon too. It sucks. I hate it. 

I hope that Hank likes agility. I think he will. I really do. I hope he does.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> Summer got her TIAD (intermediate standard) title FINALLY! We just did one day this weekend. I'm pooped with all the stuff going on. We ended up with 2 Qs and had a nice day.
> 
> Hank handled the trial FANTASTICALLY. I'm really pleased with how responsive and confident he was. Not so pleased with the crate shrieking or the jumping up on people or wanting to chase fast dogs but he improved a lot over the day and it was his first trial. i'm impressed with this guy and a lot of the agility folk were impressed as well with his focus and temperament.
> 
> 
> On a sadder note I am seriously considering retiring Summer from agility completely.  I just... I don't know. I love it and it would suck to retire her now because we'd be looking at a year or two before competing with Hank (hopefully). I don't know when the next set of classes start up so no telling when Hank will actually start up.
> 
> But Summer has been aging a lot this last 6 months. I've only noticed it the last few months. Both her seizures (she's had 3 now, had another in September) and also just some other factors here and there. Sleeping more, grayer, snoring more, etc. She peed in the ring once and inside the tunnel once too. I'm seeing some signs of incontinence and also she just is running slower and acting less enthused. I AM going to wait a few weeks. We have a ring rental soon and also classes. I don't know if the stress of the move + Hank is part of the reason or not. 3 weeks ago she was flying in class. The last two weeks have not been good. This trial was ok. The morning was good but the afternoon not at all. At the least I think we may be done with big dog agility and just stick to doing a couple runs at local teacup trials. One lady gave me a supplement name so I'm going to test it out. She says she used it with her 13 year old ACD and she's gotten a lot more active since.
> 
> But it sucks. It's not something I wanted to think about for at the least another year or so.
> 
> Two of my friends are retiring their dogs soon too. It sucks. I hate it.
> 
> I hope that Hank likes agility. I think he will. I really do. I hope he does.


Also remember that he is a teenager still, Josefina was horribly hyper as a teenager, now, at 5 years old, I am lucky if I can get her to play 15 minutes of fetch on a cool day LOL


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YES YES YES!!!! Jari not only was able to get IN to the building with no real reactivity issues, but we also waited until everyone was done running for the day and he did some work with a practice jump off leash!!!! AHHHHHHHH babydog might actually do things one day!!!! We did some racing to a target/wrapping around a cone stuff too before we were able to get in to use the jump and he was just awesome. I'm so happy <3

Kimma and I picked up two more Masters JWW Qs. We actually should have Qd in Standard yesterday but the judge called a DW contact that she didn't miss. So yeah. That made me really annoyed. I had people I've never even met before come to me as soon as we left the ring and told me. I thought we Qd because yeah I SAW my dog hit the contact and lo and behold.... I'm hoping that might come back in a nice way someday so yeah. Standard today was great, but she got too excited and took a line where she should have turned hahaha. But she was HAPPY so that's all that matters


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Finkie_Mom said:


> YES YES YES!!!! Jari not only was able to get IN to the building with no real reactivity issues, but we also waited until everyone was done running for the day and he did some work with a practice jump off leash!!!! AHHHHHHHH babydog might actually do things one day!!!! We did some racing to a target/wrapping around a cone stuff too before we were able to get in to use the jump and he was just awesome. I'm so happy <3
> 
> Kimma and I picked up two more Masters JWW Qs. We actually should have Qd in Standard yesterday but the judge called a DW contact that she didn't miss. So yeah. That made me really annoyed. I had people I've never even met before come to me as soon as we left the ring and told me. I thought we Qd because yeah I SAW my dog hit the contact and lo and behold.... I'm hoping that might come back in a nice way someday so yeah. Standard today was great, but she got too excited and took a line where she should have turned hahaha. But she was HAPPY so that's all that matters


Go YOU!!! That's awesome!


----------



## SDRRanger

Laurelin said:


> Summer got her TIAD (intermediate standard) title FINALLY! We just did one day this weekend. I'm pooped with all the stuff going on. We ended up with 2 Qs and had a nice day.
> 
> Hank handled the trial FANTASTICALLY. I'm really pleased with how responsive and confident he was. Not so pleased with the crate shrieking or the jumping up on people or wanting to chase fast dogs but he improved a lot over the day and it was his first trial. i'm impressed with this guy and a lot of the agility folk were impressed as well with his focus and temperament.
> 
> 
> On a sadder note I am seriously considering retiring Summer from agility completely.  I just... I don't know. I love it and it would suck to retire her now because we'd be looking at a year or two before competing with Hank (hopefully). I don't know when the next set of classes start up so no telling when Hank will actually start up.
> 
> But Summer has been aging a lot this last 6 months. I've only noticed it the last few months. Both her seizures (she's had 3 now, had another in September) and also just some other factors here and there. Sleeping more, grayer, snoring more, etc. She peed in the ring once and inside the tunnel once too. I'm seeing some signs of incontinence and also she just is running slower and acting less enthused. I AM going to wait a few weeks. We have a ring rental soon and also classes. I don't know if the stress of the move + Hank is part of the reason or not. 3 weeks ago she was flying in class. The last two weeks have not been good. This trial was ok. The morning was good but the afternoon not at all. At the least I think we may be done with big dog agility and just stick to doing a couple runs at local teacup trials. One lady gave me a supplement name so I'm going to test it out. She says she used it with her 13 year old ACD and she's gotten a lot more active since.
> 
> But it sucks. It's not something I wanted to think about for at the least another year or so.
> 
> Two of my friends are retiring their dogs soon too. It sucks. I hate it.
> 
> I hope that Hank likes agility. I think he will. I really do. I hope he does.


I'm sorry about Summer Laurelin. I've never retired a dog, but have done it with horses and it's hard knowing they can't do what they could. Just really shoves it in your face how they're ageing. I know you'll do what she needs and hopefully she's just having a little slow period.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

SDRRanger said:


> I'm sorry about Summer Laurelin. I've never retired a dog, but have done it with horses and it's hard knowing they can't do what they could. Just really shoves it in your face how they're ageing. I know you'll do what she needs and hopefully she's just having a little slow period.


I have don't both and they both suck  my pony horse is 15 and I know eventually I will have to face his retirement too  luckily he has a place to go when the time comes.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer and I had a GREAT class tonight. I really needed that with her. I had so much fun. Such a good dog.

Pre-class I took Hank out to play and work with him for about 45 minutes at the field and he is so fun too! He is SO FAST. So fast. I can't wait to get him really training. 

And Mia and I had cuddles. Mia is the best.

I love my dogs.


----------



## sassafras

Oh god Squash is so fun. We've been practicing 12 weaves in class lately and he did 12 straight for the first time tonight, VERY proud of him.

BUT the funnest part is that when we get to the end he LOVES to run back to the beginning with me, roaring. It's getting to be almost as good of a reward for him as food.


----------



## trainingjunkie

We need video of this!


----------



## SDRRanger

Had a good class this week. Our issue is that Ranger is still watching me for direction a little too much and not looking ahead. Haven't had an accident yet, but I feel he's going to smash himself one of these days. He did great on the teeter and we all did some work on different crosses. 

Going to go price up stuff to make jumps soon (although jumps are the only thing he manages to look forward through) so that we can work on things at home.


----------



## sassafras

trainingjunkie said:


> We need video of this!


I will try to remember to bring my G Pro next week. We only have 6 weaves here at home and the environment isn't as stimulating, so I don't think he'll work up to a roar, but I'll try.


----------



## sassafras

SDRRanger said:


> Had a good class this week. Our issue is that Ranger is still watching me for direction a little too much and not looking ahead. Haven't had an accident yet, but I feel he's going to smash himself one of these days. He did great on the teeter and we all did some work on different crosses.


We've been working on crosses with 2-3 jumps and Squash does this a LOT, and ends up knocking bars because he's looking at me and he's big enough to just plow through instead of jumping nicely. 

Most of it is my clumsy handling, so hopefully I'll improve so he can. And I've gotten some good advice elsewhere about how to work on the bar-knocking, just have to get more jumps at home.


----------



## Laurelin

Dangit! They are not running snookers on Saturday at the trial! That's what we need our Q in!!!! And I can't come Sunday. 

So bummed!


----------



## kadylady

We went to a new facility on Saturday and played CPE for a very very very looooooooooong day. The secretary overfilled the trial and didn't catch it in time to not allow day of show entries, so rather than the limit of 375 runs/day, we had 430 runs. Left home and 6:30 am and didn't get back until after 9pm. We crashed hard that night.

Anyway, we had a pretty good day. She was a bit slower than I was expecting, she usually runs faster on turf, but this was a new place for both of us so that was a factor. We Q'd in 3/5 runs. She did good with her weaves and contacts. I need to start trusting her more on her weave entries. There was a slightly tough angle to the weaves in standard where she comes out of the tunnel and is set up for the weaves, I decided during my walk through that it would be better to pull her towards me and then send her on a straighter line. Well when we were running it she actually headed right for a good entry but I pulled her off it and then she struggled after that. Two things that really offend and shut her down when we are running, 1) when I run into/onto her line and 2) when I pull her off something. After 2 tries she got the entry and finished them beautifully. Good dog, bad handler!

Standard video (that A frame thing I think was her being distracted by the judge and then she's like oh yeah a frame lol)





We are headed back to the same facility this weekend for AKC. Hoping she's a little more enthusiastic since we've been there once already.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Started more advanced classes. I was a little afraid I would be behind everyone else at first, but Kairi really did well. We can do a full 12 weaves just fine. My biggest issue right now is that Kairi thinks the contact obstacles are the funnest and will blow me off at times to go play on them.. dogs..


----------



## Keechak

Well I've never posted in this thread but since I took some video at our training on Wednesday I suppose I can start.

Lark is just starting her Novice class, her last class was an "intro to agility" class where they learned how to do each obstacle safely, we didn't work on sequences or crosses or speed at all. 





And then Hawkeye's Open/Advanced class is right after and we had a super confusing course to follow with lots of weird angles and crosses.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I am so disappointed. I have not been able to do any Agility trials this year because I have blockages in both my legs. Finally went into the Hospital on Thursday and had my left leg done (Angioplasty). On Friday they were supposed to do my right leg but where they went in behind my knee, the blockage was too close so now I have to wait till December to get another appointment so they can go in a different way to my right leg. I have kept up my training at home as I can do one or two obstacles before I have to stop but was really wanting to get started with Kris, my Dobe, in Agility. She does all the obstacles but more of a one at a time so have not done very much with her yet as don't want her to get in the habit that she does one obstacle and quits to get a treat.


----------



## pawsaddict

Nova and I are loving agility so far. But I think I need some help on one major issue. She is too fast! I know that this will be good later on, but right now she just wants to go, go, go (while I just want her to learn everything properly). 

For example, she just barrels over the A-frame and doesn't touch the yellow area on the way down. I just can't keep up with her, and it seems like me holding the leash and trying to slow her down just messes us up even more (admittedly, she is not the best at loose-leashing walking because she just wants to run). I take her to an off-leash park for an hour or so before class in the hopes of calming her down a bit, but she doesn't seem to slow down until class is over.

Is there any way to correct this before it becomes a habit?


----------



## CptJack

If you slow her down, you're going to have trouble speeding her up later. Your best best is to teach some focus but mostly to learn to handle from behind and to get cues out faster. Though in the case of contacts, backchaining would be a good idea. Ie: Teach the 2o2o as it's separate thing, reward that and then add the equipment. Ie: Climb - WAIT (or tap, if it's a separate command) GO. So it's not just one thing for the dog.

Point 2 and maybe more important: ...Um, your instructor is running the dogs on equipment on leash?

/inexpert opinion.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know with Lucy I taught her a solid 2o2o before I used it on the equipment. She learned to hold it until released which gives you a chance to catch up.


----------



## pawsaddict

Okay, this is a stupid question...but what is a 2020? I think I understand from your example, Cpt, but I want to make sure...

And yes, our dogs are on a 6 foot leash during the whole class. I thought maybe it was normal for a beginner class? For the other two dogs in the class, this doesn't seem to be a problem because they really take their time on the obstacles. But with Nova, I just can't hang on to the leash. She's just too fast. She listens to my commands when we are doing a small obstacle course, so she moves to the obstacles we need to go to...she just does it at hyper speed.


----------



## CptJack

2o2o is two on, two off. It's the dog coming to a stop at the end of the obstacle with the back feet still on and the front feet off. It's useful to make SURE they hit the contact area and to make sure the judge sees it. 

I realllly don't like working dogs on equipment on leash, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's abnormal to do so. We did a tiny little bit on leash -like the first couple of times on a lowered obstacle - but mostly it just makes me, personally, nervous.

I have no idea how to advise you in this situation because of the leash. Talk to your instructor, maybe, and see if doing it off leash is a possibility or what she suggests.


----------



## sassafras

Well I tried to video roaring Squash but I had an equipment malfunction. Actually, user error to be more accurate. NEXT WEEK.

We started practicing a serpentine pattern with 3 jumps. Started out similar to weaves in a 2x2 arrangement, with the jumps at an angle to one another. Coincidentally (maybe) I added two jumps to my home equipment so we've been playing around with that in the backyard.

My biggest problems are that I barely have enough length even in my yard for Squash's stride length to set things up nicely for him, and also f*ck if I can keep up with this dog lol.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> 2o2o is two on, two off. It's the dog coming to a stop at the end of the obstacle with the back feet still on and the front feet off. It's useful to make SURE they hit the contact area and to make sure the judge sees it.
> 
> I realllly don't like working dogs on equipment on leash, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's abnormal to do so. We did a tiny little bit on leash -like the first couple of times on a lowered obstacle - but mostly it just makes me, personally, nervous.
> 
> I have no idea how to advise you in this situation because of the leash. Talk to your instructor, maybe, and see if doing it off leash is a possibility or what she suggests.


Oh, so that's what it's called! Thanks, Cpt  

I guess we mostly end up doing things "off-leash", since I end up letting the leash go because I literally can't hang on anymore. I don't know if what Nova is doing is good or if she should be doing things nice and slow like the others. I think her drive is great, but I just need to know how to harness it better so we do things correctly.


----------



## CptJack

I am really not the most experienced person here - but I think in your shoes I'd backchain. Teach her the position for 2o2o on like a set of stairs, or a plank or something. Then I'd do what we do in my classes, and get her up onto the table, onto the a-frame and then put her in position at the bottom of the a-frame and reward her for it before releasing. Eventually do the whole obstacle but with a target at the bottom with food so she stops to eat. And, obviously, get that position on a verbal so assuming it/getting into it is its own command that she holds until released.

I wouldn't try to slow her down, per-se, just try to work it in smaller stages and with more precision. 

Or just talk to your instructor or see what the more experienced people here have to say.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I am really not the most experienced person here - but I think in your shoes I'd backchain. Teach her the position for 2o2o on like a set of stairs, or a plank or something. Then I'd do what we do in my classes, and get her up onto the table, onto the a-frame and then put her in position at the bottom of the a-frame and reward her for it before releasing. Eventually do the whole obstacle but with a target at the bottom with food so she stops to eat. And, obviously, get that position on a verbal so assuming it/getting into it is its own command that she holds until released.
> 
> I wouldn't try to slow her down, per-se, just try to work it in smaller stages and with more precision.
> 
> Or just talk to your instructor or see what the more experienced people here have to say.


My instructor has just been saying that right now we are just looking to build confidence on the equipment and that teaching a 2o2o (now that I know what it's called, lol) can come later. Well, Nova is pretty confident, that's for sure. I'll have to try and discuss it with our instructor privately because I don't want this to become a habit. I would really like to maybe get to competion level with Nova some day. I think she has so much potential, and I would really love to learn. 

That sounds like a really good plan, Cpt. I'm definitely going to try to teach her 2o2o on our stairs first and then go from there like you suggested. Thank you!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

The problem with waiting to teach a good contact is that if they don't know to hit the contact, what's stopping them from bailing off the equipment and getting injured??? I never put dogs on contact equipment on leash or before they know their contact behavior as it's way too risky. Leash gets caught, they bail off at the top because why shouldn't they, etc. There are plenty of ways to build confidence without putting dogs on high equipment on leash right off the bat. 

Just my opinion 

ETA - Both of mine now have running contacts, but when we did teach 2o2o we used stairs, curbs, low to the ground tupperware containers, rocks and tree stumps at the park... Get creative!


----------



## sassafras

Finkie_Mom said:


> ETA - Both of mine now have running contacts, but when we did teach 2o2o we used stairs, curbs, low to the ground tupperware containers, rocks and tree stumps at the park... Get creative!


So do you have them back up onto it and reward, or stop walking over it 2o2o and reward? Or both? I'm trying to work on a 2o2o because I don't think I can keep up with a running contact Squash, plus I think he will get too excited/wound up and jump off halfway and/or find another way to hurt himself. 

At class, we have the A-Frame set really low/wide so they don't get too much speed, I can basically walk him over and call for a WHOA (thank you, joring) but I'm struggling to practice this at home.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I would not back your dog up into a 2o2o. Rather practice at home first using a step, box, etc. It was one of the things I used the clicker on and she is really solid on it. I did have a bit of a problem with her when she was going too fast, missing the contact and running back and doing it by putting her back feet up which in an Agility trial would be a fail. I did not reward her when she did this and she soon stopped and does it on the contact equipment and holds it. She is a small dog so I have to release her quickly off the teeter before it starts back up but she still waits for the release word. I always did a running contact with Remmy but decided I would try the 2o2o with Lucy as will need to do it with Kris, my Dobe.


----------



## sassafras

Kyllobernese said:


> Rather practice at home first using a step, box, etc.


Yes, but what I am asking is _how_ to practice at home using a step, box, etc. Coming down the stairs is more obvious, but if you are using something like a box or board do you just have them walk over it and mark/reward for stopping with rear feet on or? I guess I'm asking if it matters HOW they get into the position or just that they get into the position.


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> Yes, but what I am asking is _how_ to practice at home using a step, box, etc. Coming down the stairs is more obvious, but if you are using something like a box or board do you just have them walk over it and mark/reward for stopping with rear feet on or? I guess I'm asking if it matters HOW they get into the position or just that they get into the position.



You've got it. Walk them forward over it and mark reward when the first two feet are off and their back feet are still on. Though in truth, I don't think it matters much how you get them there, beyond the fact that it'll obviously be paired with a forward motion in agility.

To be honest with Kylie I just used a wait, kind of like your whoa I guess? And she now considers that wait part of the obstacle. The problem with this is that she'll sit there and, well, wait until I release her which she does at the speed of REALLY DANGED SLOW - also why we don't use start-line stays; they demotivate the heck out of her and slow her WAAAAY down. We're working on it, but I really think she is kind of backwards from dogs like Squash and Nala. She needs more speed, not less.

Really thinking of using running contacts with her, at this point if I can't get some speed into her releases. She's not going to bail at this stage.


----------



## sassafras

Ok, thanks!


----------



## pawsaddict

Finkie_Mom said:


> The problem with waiting to teach a good contact is that if they don't know to hit the contact, what's stopping them from bailing off the equipment and getting injured??? I never put dogs on contact equipment on leash or before they know their contact behavior as it's way too risky. Leash gets caught, they bail off at the top because why shouldn't they, etc. There are plenty of ways to build confidence without putting dogs on high equipment on leash right off the bat.
> 
> Just my opinion
> 
> ETA - Both of mine now have running contacts, but when we did teach 2o2o we used stairs, curbs, low to the ground tupperware containers, rocks and tree stumps at the park... Get creative!


That's just it, sometimes Nova just leaps off the A-frame, and I do worry that she will get hurt by doing that. I'm starting to think that maybe I didn't pick the best class 

But thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it, and we are going to start working on this right away. I found this Sophia Yin video (sorry, if I shouldn't be posting this). I think it's really good (except that I don't have a Treat & Train). What do you guys think?

http://drsophiayin.com/videos/entry/treattrain-helps-teach-2-on-2-off-in-agility

(I'm a visual learner, lol)


----------



## CptJack

I've seen that video before - it's absolutely the kind of thing I was talking about. Without a treat and train you can just use plain old targets. Teach her to run toward a lid on the ground (like a cottage cheese one) to get food. Then put one with food at the end of the dog walk or whatever. Helpful if you have a second person to load it, but you can do it yourself, too, it just involves a few more steps and can be a little awkward.

I... am not so sure about your class, but people do things differently. It may just be that she's not a great match for the class rather than the class being bad. My instructor DOES always stress she'd rather have the dogs be happy and confident than correct at earlier stages, but I'm pretty sure she'd lose her CRAP if a dog bailed off a piece of equipment - she's really serious about safety.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Yup, for 2o2o I just walked her across/over any surface that wasn't too far off the ground and marked whenever she had her two back legs still on it. I used low decks, books, drawers, steps. We moved to higher up things as we got better, such as the couch. It's funny because now she does it randomly in non training situations. 

NOTE: When teaching 2o2o, make sure you reward from every angle and from as far away as possible. This is why it's good to have touch plate with a treat on it or something. 

It does come in handy for a fast dog, but it's not always best for every dog.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I've seen that video before - it's absolutely the kind of thing I was talking about. Without a treat and train you can just use plain old targets. Teach her to run toward a lid on the ground (like a cottage cheese one) to get food. Then put one with food at the end of the dog walk or whatever. Helpful if you have a second person to load it, but you can do it yourself, too, it just involves a few more steps and can be a little awkward.
> 
> I... am not so sure about your class, but people do things differently. It may just be that she's not a great match for the class rather than the class being bad. My instructor DOES always stress she'd rather have the dogs be happy and confident than correct at earlier stages, but I'm pretty sure she'd lose her CRAP if a dog bailed off a piece of equipment - she's really serious about safety.


Thanks, Cpt. A lid is a great idea! 

Yeah, maybe she isn't the best match for the class. We will finish out this class, and then I was hoping to enrol her in an intermediate class, if she is ready, of course. Is there anything I can do to pick a better class, if this one doesn't work out? I called ahead and asked questions about the class and the instructor beforehand. I know people who have taught their dogs agility there, and they recommend it. I thought I did everything right in picking a class, but I didn't consider that Nova wouldn't be a good match.

Nova and I have been practicing pivoting (http://youtu.be/xsvNvK8T1z8) and, when I spoke with our instructor this afternoon, she said that this will help with 2o2o, because later we will use a mat and place it in front of the equipment.


----------



## pawsaddict

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Yup, for 2o2o I just walked her across/over any surface that wasn't too far off the ground and marked whenever she had her two back legs still on it. I used low decks, books, drawers, steps. We moved to higher up things as we got better, such as the couch. It's funny because now she does it randomly in non training situations.
> 
> NOTE: When teaching 2o2o, make sure you reward from every angle and from as far away as possible. This is why it's good to have touch plate with a treat on it or something.
> 
> It does come in handy for a fast dog, but it's not always best for every dog.


Thank you! I hope Nova gets to the point where she does it randomly, lol.


----------



## CptJack

I don't really know what to say here. I'm not super experienced.

The things I would be looking for though was someone who successfully competes with, and titles, their own dogs, and a class/facility that doesn't introduce equipment until after foundations/flat work.

Everyone does things differently. I don't know if the place you go to has that. What basically sounds backward to me, personally, is that it seems like they're introducing equipment before off leashing control, handling skills, and flat work.


----------



## pawsaddict

Okay. Thank you. Those are really good tips. I guess you live and you learn :doh:


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> I don't really know what to say here. I'm not super experienced.
> 
> The things I would be looking for though was someone who successfully competes with, and titles, their own dogs, and a class/facility that doesn't introduce equipment until after foundations/flat work.
> 
> Everyone does things differently. I don't know if the place you go to has that. What basically sounds backward to me, personally, is that it seems like they're introducing equipment before off leashing control, handling skills, and flat work.


I'm curious what constitutes as foundations and flatwork type of stuff.

We were introduced to tunnels, balance board, wobble board and low jumps the first night, and worked on handling mostly. From what I've been told, I'm going to the best agility place in my area. Everyone that teaches also competes and they do well. I'm just not really sure what counts as "foundation" work and don't feel like I got a lot of it where I'm at. I did a lot of exercises at home when my dog as a pup such as body awareness and crate games.. but I'm still not sure what exactly I've missed out on.


----------



## CptJack

We did some tunnels, low jumps and started on the bottom of the A-frame for 2o2o (table, across to the a-frame, down into position) during the first course. I don't remember what the order of it was, but they were in there. The other stuff was directionals, driving toward a target, distraction work, recalling to different (indicated) sides, getting out around buckets and cones in both directions and from different angles. Front, rear, and blind crosses. 

So it doesn't sound dissimilar to me? But there were no full height contact obstacles, and even things like jumps were mostly done to help handling, I think. Next course was beginner agility it was getting out to a jump, figure 8s with jumps and jump configurations in general and introducing the rest of the obstacles (except weaves - that's a different class and I have NOT taken it, just fumbled through on my own) and angles and getting most of them to height. 

And from what I've read here even that was moving pretty freaking fast. 

Like I said, people do things differently and I'm not judging. Just saying what I'd be looking for. And my handler is, admittedly, mostly a NADAC competitor. Some in AKC and does title there, but she's way more competitive in NADAC (like Nationals and high placing in them). 

And, like I said, I'm REALLLLY not experienced.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> We did some tunnels, low jumps and started on the bottom of the A-frame for 2o2o (table, across to the a-frame, down into position) during the first course. I don't remember what the order of it was, but they were in there. The other stuff was directionals, driving toward a target, distraction work, recalling to different (indicated) sides, getting out around buckets and cones in both directions and from different angles. Front, rear, and blind crosses.
> 
> So it doesn't sound dissimilar to me? But there were no full height contact obstacles, and even things like jumps were mostly done to help handling, I think. Next course was beginner agility it was getting out to a jump, figure 8s with jumps and jump configurations in general and introducing the rest of the obstacles (except weaves - that's a different class and I have NOT taken it, just fumbled through on my own) and angles and getting most of them to height.
> 
> And from what I've read here even that was moving pretty freaking fast.
> 
> Like I said, people do things differently and I'm not judging. Just saying what I'd be looking for. And my handler is, admittedly, mostly a NADAC competitor. Some in AKC and does title there, but she's way more competitive in NADAC (like Nationals and high placing in them).
> 
> And, like I said, I'm REALLLLY not experienced.


I was just curious and afraid I was missing some big thing. That in particular doesn't sound all that different to me, so that's good. I think it's hard not to move kind of fast in classes. They expect you to be working on some things outside of class if you are serious about competing, and also.. it's a class. All you get is an hour to learn so much. 

We were only on leash the first few classes, after that we started taking them off. I don't know what's normal either.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I was just curious and afraid I was missing some big thing. That in particular doesn't sound all that different to me, so that's good. I think it's hard not to move kind of fast in classes. They expect you to be working on some things outside of class if you are serious about competing, and also.. it's a class. All you get is an hour to learn so much.
> 
> We were only on leash the first few classes, after that we started taking them off. I don't know what's normal either.


Sorry, I'm having paranoia tonight - not trying to come across as defensive.

Leashes... Were on and off a lot, but I think basically they just came off any time the dogs were being asked to perform. Ie: No trailing leashes in the tunnels to scare the dog, to knock bars on the jumps (even when they were low), to tangle around the cone or whip around it. Basically, if they were working they were off leash from probably class 2. That got hairy a few times in Bug's classes (Kylie's were fine) because of insane dogs, but it got hairy a lot more often because owners wouldn't want to drop the leash and would unconsciously yank them into the tunnel kind of deal. 

And yeah, I think once you hit a point things have to move and be applied. I'm taking Kylie back through beginner and intermediate - beginner because I wanna, intermediate because that class was SO FAR over our heads in many ways. Everyone else in that class was already competing frequently and there was a lot I need more practice with like the dog switching leads.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

sassafras said:


> So do you have them back up onto it and reward, or stop walking over it 2o2o and reward? Or both? I'm trying to work on a 2o2o because I don't think I can keep up with a running contact Squash, plus I think he will get too excited/wound up and jump off halfway and/or find another way to hurt himself.
> 
> At class, we have the A-Frame set really low/wide so they don't get too much speed, I can basically walk him over and call for a WHOA (thank you, joring) but I'm struggling to practice this at home.


Yep! Just walk them forward on to it. I don't want them to back up on to it because then it will sometimes teach them that it's "OK" to miss it as long as you back up on to it afterwards LOL. Learned that the hard way with Kimma


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Here are things I cover in agility foundations: 

Wobble board
Fit disc
Tippy plank
Intro to tunnels/chute - straight only, introducing curves if the class is progressing well
Racing to target/restrained recalls to target
Race to target through hoop (so that the hoop can be added at the bottom of contact equipment when it is taught so encourage racing ahead and not bailing early)
Handling work with jump standard only - no jump bar at all - that includes front/rear crosses on the flat, startline stays, recalls to heel, turns, wraps

These things were NOT taught to me during my own foundations training, and I definitely wish they were. Things would have been much better for me and Kimma, I feel. Jari is doing so much better than Kimma was at his age - he's confident on all equipment, drivey while running, and he just seems to have fun and "get" things better. It also helps that I'm much more experienced.


----------



## pawsaddict

My class seems to have skipped A LOT! From what I'm reading, we didn't really do any foundation work. In fact, in our first class, we learned jumping with the bar low (we are still keeping it low), tunnel, and weave poles. There was no wobble board, no fit disc, no tippy plank, no directionals, nothing like that. This doesn't sound good... :Cry:

So far we have done (in four classes):
-Weave poles
-Bar jump
-Tunnel (open and straight)
-A-Frame
-Dog Walk
-Hoop Jump (low)
-Barrels
-and we spent a little time doing left and right spins today

We have done really small obstacle courses, but mostly just do one piece of equipment at a time...nice and slow (except for Nova). Should I be enrolling her in a Foundation sort of class after this one? Maybe we will be doing more of that stuff later on in the class (I hope so)...


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> M Should I be enrolling her in a Foundation sort of class after this one? Maybe we will be doing more of that stuff later on in the class (I hope so)...


I would. Like I said, I'm one of the more inexperienced people here. I was supposed to start trialing novice this weekend and just plain chickened out. Not because I don't think Kylie could do it, but I'm a high strung dork and I really need more confidence myself. I want to get another show 'n go in before I go there. Because I'm a chicken.

Anyway, yes, I would. I mean getting confident with the obstacles is great fun and a lot of people that's all they want, but I couldn't imagine trying to handle a twisty course without having worked on crosses and handling skills, even if things like blowing contacts weren't an issue and the dog somehow knew where to go next.


----------



## pawsaddict

From what I have seen on here, I think you and Kylie would be amazing. But I understand, I get really nervous in front of crowds, so it will take a long while for me to feel confident...and I will NEVER feel confident if we don't have the basic skills down. Could you imagine? we would be such a mess!

Man, I feel dumb (and disappointed).


----------



## HyperFerret

Just jumping in to say that tomorrow I'll be in my first "Intro to Agility" class! YAY! So I can officially "belong" in this thread, lol. I'll be in class with Tidbit. More of my dogs will follow shortly. The instructor, in orientation, mentioned we'll be sharpening what we've worked on in Novice. She said that we won't be doing much with any agility equipment. Which I already expected that we'll be doing a lot of ground work. The class is outside on the grass. She did mention using a wobble board and she's hoping there will be a day somewhere when we'll be able to be inside so the dogs can experience different sounds. I already play with a wobble board at home, which are hard floors. So Tidbit should be okay with that.


----------



## Sibe

Siberian Husky national is this Monday, just a couple days away! Aaaaaaaah!! There are 14 dogs, a total of 42 runs. Novice check in is like, 9:30am. Will be a quick agility day, and maybe less commotion will be less stressful for Nali. She's been amazing doing her weaves in class, only issue is coming at them with speed she's having trouble collecting herself to hit the first pole. Courses will likely be tight and twisty which is not our forte and male judges stress Nali more so truthfully while I do hope we run well of course, I'm going to be happy with whatever Nali gives me. It's going to be a blast seeing a handful of other huskies run too!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Finkie_Mom said:


> Here are things I cover in agility foundations:
> 
> Wobble board
> Fit disc
> Tippy plank
> Intro to tunnels/chute - straight only, introducing curves if the class is progressing well
> Racing to target/restrained recalls to target
> Race to target through hoop (so that the hoop can be added at the bottom of contact equipment when it is taught so encourage racing ahead and not bailing early)
> Handling work with jump standard only - no jump bar at all - that includes front/rear crosses on the flat, startline stays, recalls to heel, turns, wraps
> 
> These things were NOT taught to me during my own foundations training, and I definitely wish they were. Things would have been much better for me and Kimma, I feel. Jari is doing so much better than Kimma was at his age - he's confident on all equipment, drivey while running, and he just seems to have fun and "get" things better. It also helps that I'm much more experienced.


Interesting! Thanks for the comparison. We didn't have fit disc or tippy plank, but we did use a wobble. Nor did we do any start line stays in class (though it was expected we work on it outside of it?). We didn't do run to target training either. Thankfully, I already did that kind of thing in my 2 prior obedience classes. We DID do a lot of crossing, turns, and recalls to heel, etc on the flat in my class. 

Even with the foundation stuff, I still didn't find myself really understanding any of it until I put it with the obstacles. My brain doesn't work the puzzle pieces way. We would do rear crossed on the flat and I was completely stumped. Throw in the obstacles.. BAM. I get it. I still can't do it correctly without the obstacles.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Even with the foundation stuff, I still didn't find myself really understanding any of it until I put it with the obstacles. My brain doesn't work the puzzle pieces way. We would do rear crossed on the flat and I was completely stumped. Throw in the obstacles.. BAM. I get it. I still can't do it correctly without the obstacles.


That's why we use jump standards and straight tunnels


----------



## kadylady

AKC trial yesterday. We had some really good runs, I'm so happy with our performance yesterday. Last week at the same place she was kind of slow and stressy, still a little slow this weekend but faster and less distracted than last weekend so we'll take it! We were so close to Q's on both our Std and JWW runs, so so so close, closest we've ever been to open Q's. But, the best part of everything was that we had a male judge.... and she never reacted or visibly worried about him at all!!!!! We also got in some good socializing and she made a few new human friends, so score on that front as well!!

Open Standard - Apparently she noticed all the people watching her before the triple. Judge didn't call an R on our missing the weave entry (apparently he missed quite a few obvious calls that day) but we were too far over time to Q. The missed weave entry may have been partially due to the judge standing so close, but the fact that she doesn't react or shy away from him is a huge plus in my book.





Open JWW - Best run of the day! I pulled her out of the weaves by trying to get her to go faster and saying "come on!", well, she came! Bad handler! Where she goes in between the 180 jumps I think it was a combo of me starting to push on her line and not cuing the jump well enough. Also wish I hadn't rear crossed the triple earlier in the run, had plenty of time to do something else and she didn't like it so much, but she read it and recovered from my poor decision well.


----------



## sassafras

Ha! I sand-ified an old shelf to practice 2o2o, and during a break apparently Squash thought it would make a fine squirrel-watching platform. -_-


----------



## Laurelin

I ran all 3 today. Me and some friends rented a ring. I realized... I am the crazy dog lady. Half the dogs running this afternoon were mine! 

Summer did fantastic! She was flying and happy. Weaves went well till the end and she was tired. But overall just had fun running her. She's so steady, I love it.

Mia was desperate to get to go play and since the place is air conditioned I let her run when we do ring rentals. There's lots of down time so we jump in when everyone else is not working their dogs. Mia was AMAZING. It's so nice to get to play with her. She was so fast and did everything really well. It is so tempting to let her run TDAA... I don't know. Everyone asks me why I don't since she loves to run. The courses are shorter and it's in air conditioning. I probably won't but I have fun doing courses when we rent the ring. It also seems to depend on a good day or not for her. She's had a lot of good breathing days lately. She had fun though. 

And Hanky Pank.

Oh boy, I gotta brag here. With Hank, I've started foundation stuff at home. This was his first time to be in a real ring. He has not been in any classes yet. And it was a double ring where there were 2-3 dogs working at once with a short fence. We mainly worked on tunnels, playing and staying engaged with me, tugging and fetch, running through jump stands, doing his tricks in the distracting environment, and also started working on down on a (low) table. 

He's amazing. He started out very afraid of the tunnel to the point I ended up crawling in it to get him through. By the end of the afternoon he was gleefully running and sending to the (straight) tunnels and going as fast as possible through them. 

He tugged well, did small sequences of 4-5 'obstacles' (jump stands and tunnels). He is already doing things FAST, on both sides, and also from even more of a distance than Summer can... Worked for his tug and also food. Was friendly with the people. Worked around the other dogs off leash and was just superb. 

I'm super pleased with him. It's amazing to think he's only been out of a shelter for a month and a couple days. 

We also wicketed him and he's DEFINITELY going to jump 16".


----------



## Sibe

Yeesh. No, we did not Q.


















But we got a pretty medallion!


----------



## Laurelin

GUESS WHO STARTS PRE AGILITY CLASSES NOVEMBER 8TH!?

obligatory lower case.

So excite!


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> GUESS WHO STARTS PRE AGILITY CLASSES NOVEMBER 8TH!?
> 
> obligatory lower case.
> 
> So excite!


I'm excited for you!

We don't start till Mid January. I'm kind of jealous. But just a little bit.

Kylie's got weaves pretty danged well now. She actually stops herself on the rare instance she misses a pole, which I think is pretty neat. Maybe not desirable, but she's showing good understanding of what's supposed to be happening.

Molly, um. Is really good at get out and targeting? May try some more tunnel work with her to keep us from both dying of impatience before Jan.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Can't wait to see Hank and Molly in action! They are going to be fun!

Tonight we played a CPE Jackpot game in class, and I had no idea what it was. Our first run, we did horrible. I was so nervous about it (even though it wasn't real, but I have anxiety problems when I try anything new) that Kairi kept messing things up she normally doesn't. It was bad, and totally my fault. The second time around we had enough points to Q but I forgot to return to the table instead of just being done. Haaa. Oops. I'm not a big fan.


----------



## CptJack

I'm starting to question if I ever actually want to trial. I mean I know that's the end goal and I'll probably change my tune after another shown 'n go and maybe some volunteering at trials, but I am seriously so not competitive. I like the training but the idea of actual trials still just makes me either anxious or vaguely resentful of the loss of a weekend. 

Guess we'll see.


----------



## sassafras

Yea I'm not sure I'll ever trial. It's way too early to say, we've had a 5 class sequence of foundations and will be starting the next level where we are actually starting to put together real sequences after that. So we'll see how we do. Even if we always just sort of play agility in a class and aren't that great at it, I am enjoying it. Sometimes I think it would be fun to trial and sometimes it seems terrifying, lol.

Plus there is a weird thing that happens to me when I get in a ring and I mess Squash up. I don't consciously feel very nervous but I am obviously doing something because in Rally we would disconnect and check out regularly in a ring but be flawless practicing before our ring time or in class. So I can see myself getting lost on an agility course or something.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I'm absolutely terrified of competing. I've been waiting to do it most of my life though so I'm going to dangit. . It will probably be a long time until I begin though. Most likely next summer/fall. Also, we have fake trials I can practice at apparently which will be awesome.


----------



## Laurelin

Everyone gets lost on course sometimes. I've actually walked out of the ring with my instructor telling me 'Great run but that wasn't actually the course' 

Hey, Summer peed in a tunnel last trial. She PEED IN A TUNNEL! They had to completely remove that tunnel and replace it with a new one.

I don't get nervous in agility at all. I thought I would be at my first trial but I just wasn't. I love trialling, it's a blast and you get to play fun games and run fun courses. Only downside is price or I'd be entering them ALL. lol

I can't wait to get Hank going. I turned in my registration. We are also getting to go to my old instructor whom I never see anymore so that's fun and exciting too.

ETA: Summer and I trial on Saturday speaking of. It'll be Hank's first time at a big dog trial so we'll get to see how he reacts to big fast dogs running. He only reacted a couple times at the TDAA trial but most those dogs are slower. He has been at Summer's class and did ok with the aussies in there.


----------



## CptJack

It's just weird for me. 

I like agility. I like the classes, I like the courses, I like the training toward a goal. I loved the 'fake trial' we did and I've really loved evening classes. I'm not afraid of the dog messing up, or me getting lost or not doing something right - stuff happens to everyone, they're dogs, everyone there has them and has seen some stuff. My nerves are really just mild, generalized worry of the unknown and that would be rectified by one stint volunteering at a trial.

My issue is more than when it came down to trial this weekend I looked at it and went "meh." Not "OH GOD I AM NERVOUS" just "I don't care/I don't feel like it." And I went out hiking with the dogs. That was more rewarding/fun for me, clearly, since I consciously chose to do that and sacrifice money to do it. Ultimately, I guess I'm a little like Kylie in that my drive isn't for the game, it's just for doing stuff with my dogs and hanging out with dog people.

All of that said, I've done this before with agility, and at least part of the issue is having lost momentum from the length of my break. It is entirely possible that once I get going again, see new things to work on and what have you I'll be interested again. I don't ever see me doing it seriously though. If I ever trial more than a handful of times a year and otherwise just play in various classes and at at assorted things I'll be surprised.

Don't get me wrong: I love agility.

I just don't know that I care about trials and titles at all. I kind of hope I do more later, because I feel like I'm missing a lot of excitement/fun like this, or... I dunno am doing something wrong.

Also: FLYBALL COMPETITION this weekend. 26 teams from all over, 2 days. Going with Molly and maybe Kylie because it sounds fun. To witness.  Will probably do some flyball classes after Molly's closer to 2. Because that also sounds kind of fun. Also we're apparently having periodic treibball workshops at that facility and that also sounds kind of fun for later. Also need to check out that other training club at some point. They've got Rally, and right now I kind of want to do a little bit of everything.


----------



## Laurelin

I think we're going to flyball on Sunday. I can't remember if practice is this weekend or not. lol We're just trying it. I like the competitions but the training may be a bit much for us. 

Titles are a bit underwhelming for me. Maybe if I got a MACH or something big but with our first titles I was all like 'okay so that's it? Yay ribbon and letters.' lol It was a bit anticlimactic. Some of my friends though get a lot more excited about it. 

To me the fun is in running a fantastic course with your dog. It doesn't really matter if it's in a trial or class. There's just nothing quite like having a kick ass run where everything goes perfectly and you and your dog are 100% connected and having a blast together.


----------



## CptJack

I kind of think, maybe, when I do get around to trailing that's what's going to motivate me- just being able to do it more at a time I really want to do more, and dog know I have those periods. 

The flyball thing I don't know about yet, but the introductory class is just for building toy drive and only lasts three weeks so that's something I want to do. I'd take Kylie but out and about she doesn't have any toy drive to speak of. Like not enough to work with even so, it's going to have to wait a bit.

Might do the ball herding thing with her, though. Because why not?

Emailed to see if they had any slots left for this round. Hopefully they'll mail me back.


----------



## dogsule

Haven't posted here in awhile now. Running into a small problem at class. A little background. Belle (a year and a half old right now) and I started agility late last winter/early spring. Agility was totally new to me too. It was a beginning agility class but no foundation work is done, mostly an introduction and short runs. Very little if any work on weaves and teeter during this beginning class. Before, during and after classes I worked with Belle on the weaves and she got it pretty quickly. Belle was terrified of the teeter but one time I was the only one to show up and we worked on the teeter to the point that she was no longer afraid of it and willingly would run to the middle but not make it go down. Slowly during classes which ran through the beginning of August I got her to make the teeter go down, sometimes it would bang and other times not. I would show up early so she would hear the bang during the previous classes and she became comfortable with it, before that just hearing the bang scared her. Then we had a break of a little over a month, Belle was spayed in this time also. When classes started up again there were no beginners so we were put with the advanced class. Belle had everything but the teeter so no real problem there. We went from beginners classes where we would start with three obstacles and advance to seven or eight to running courses with 15 obstacles with twists and turns and front and rear crosses. Things had been going really well but there are several barky and somewhat reactive dogs (so barking aggressively vs in the fun of the moment) in this class and they have started to stress Belle out and she seems to be getting stressed over the teeter again too. Last night was the first time I noticed though that it affected her performance. She actually wanted to leave and she normally just loves this. Before she would get stressed but when it was her turn that would go away and she would have a blast. Not sure if last night was a combination of hearing the teeter and then knowing she was going to go on it or what but when it was her turn she ran for the door. One of the barky dogs was not there last night so it wasn't as bad as usual. I took her out and let her potty and then we went back in and got through the first run, she did push the teeter herself to make it go down slowly but on her second run she just ran to the middle and stopped and I had to really treat her to get her to move further on it. Then the trainer had her go back and forth on the teeter several times and she did seem a bit more comfortable by the end of class. (I had done the same thing with her before class too) She loves everything but the teeter but seems more stressed about it when other dogs go over it than when she does which is odd. I try not to react to her stress at all when other dogs are on it as I don't want to feed her fear. Just wondering if there is anything I can do or anyway I can try to help her with this at home. I wish I had a teeter at home so she could practice but I certainly don't have the money to get one. I know she needs to get comfortable with the noise of the teeter as well as the barky dogs if we ever want to trial and maybe I am expecting too much too soon. There are several people there that go to trails and when they see us they say she will be/should be trialing soon but I am not too sure cause this seems like a big obstacle to me right now. I am doing this because I thought she would like it and she really did so it is kinda disheartening to see her afraid now even if it is only over the teeter and a couple of aggressively barking dogs. A new session is starting next week and they have split the class into three now, beginners and two advanced. I am hoping to get to whichever advanced class has the least amount of people in it. This last class only three people signed up so there was only one class however a bunch decided to come after the fact so the class has had 7-8 dogs every time which is a lot! Normally classes are an hour long but this last one was going an hour and a half because of the amount of dogs. Maybe it will be better with fewer dogs...time will tell I guess.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Josefina has been doing great! So great in fact that we will probably be moving to the more advanced beginners class in a week or two! The trainer is very impressed with how good she is doing, esp for a dog who knew nothing when we started! She will now to the chute and the tunnel (with a turn in it!) By herself!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

^ Glad she is doing good. Are you going to agility with your Mini American, as well?

Kairi is always a lot less motivated to do agility at home. Our equipment isn't nearly as fun (I have no contact obstacles, which are her favorite), we are outside, and classes really get her amped up more so than my boring backyard. I decided to make it more exciting by switching out the treats for her favorite game: tug. Instant success. I have no idea why I never use tug more as a reward for her for agility (actually, I do know why. I really hate tug, hurts my hands. ). She loves it more than cookies in most situations. I just felt the need to share how thrilled I am with this dog. Yeah she's an independent butt sometimes, but she has such a great toy/tug drive and so much enthusiasm to work with. What an awesome first dog to learn agility with, even if she is a bit too fast for my abilities at the moment. I can't wait to play more fake CPE games this week, hopefully all of our practice will make it better than last week. If not, we will just continue to work hard and learn, because we are capable of awesomeness.


----------



## Sibe

My post got eaten by mod approval. Insane courses for a national, let alone a husky national :/ This is the Excellent/Master JWW course. FOUR pinwheels.









Standard/JWW without my coloring


----------



## LoMD13

Yikes, those courses are crazy!!

I can't wait to hear about Hank's beginning agility! I have a feeling he's going to be a blast. 

I like trials but I think I'd like them better if Lola liked them better. We took a year off and starting up again in a few weeks (see you there MrsBoats?!). I'm 99% sure that Lola's figured out that trials= no rewards in the ring. So I've been trying very hard to rectify that problem, but she's a clever little devil so it could go either way.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Sibe said:


> My post got eaten by mod approval. Insane courses for a national, let alone a husky national :/ This is the Excellent/Master JWW course. FOUR pinwheels.


This one makes me dizzy just looking at it.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> ^ Glad she is doing good. Are you going to agility with your Mini American, as well?
> 
> Kairi is always a lot less motivated to do agility at home. Our equipment isn't nearly as fun (I have no contact obstacles, which are her favorite), we are outside, and classes really get her amped up more so than my boring backyard. I decided to make it more exciting by switching out the treats for her favorite game: tug. Instant success. I have no idea why I never use tug more as a reward for her for agility (actually, I do know why. I really hate tug, hurts my hands. ). She loves it more than cookies in most situations. I just felt the need to share how thrilled I am with this dog. Yeah she's an independent butt sometimes, but she has such a great toy/tug drive and so much enthusiasm to work with. What an awesome first dog to learn agility with, even if she is a bit too fast for my abilities at the moment. I can't wait to play more fake CPE games this week, hopefully all of our practice will make it better than last week. If not, we will just continue to work hard and learn, because we are capable of awesomeness.


If she likes it ... her daddy is a dock diver, mom is an agility and flyball dog so I hope she will be a good agility dog. 

Quick question for those who do agility classes with more than one dog, how do you guys do it? Do you work one dog for like ... 30 minutes and then the other? What do you do with the other dog? Crate? Ex pen?


----------



## CptJack

OwnedbyACDs said:


> If she likes it ... her daddy is a dock diver, mom is an agility and flyball dog so I hope she will be a good agility dog.
> 
> Quick question for those who do agility classes with more than one dog, how do you guys do it? Do you work one dog for like ... 30 minutes and then the other? What do you do with the other dog? Crate? Ex pen?


My dogs are never in the same class. When I'm working both of them at a practice or something, yeah. I just pop the other one in the crate. That said, I haven't done it much, yet, and I'm sure I'm going to have to get creative when I do.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> My dogs are never in the same class. When I'm working both of them at a practice or something, yeah. I just pop the other one in the crate. That said, I haven't done it much, yet, and I'm sure I'm going to have to get creative when I do.


I am sure they won't be either since Josefina will likely be in the advanced class or retired by the time Liberty is ready to start, since Josefina is five now and by the time Liberty is 2, Josefina will be 7.


----------



## Laurelin

It's best to keep them in separate classes. Mia and Summer were in the same class a long time though- year or so. But we crate between turns anyways so it's just the same as usual. 

The only sucky part was because my dogs were the only 8" jumpers we'd either have to run me back to back or move the bars an extra time to set them at 8".

But you shouldn't have them in the same class since by the time you start up with the puppy the older dog should have moved on to more advanced things.

5 is NOT old though. Summer is working on 11. I do think she's getting close to retirement. Was a bit slow tonight. But she had fun and so did I.

I'm so excited to start Hank. I just want to skip to November 8th haha. Though I guess I should focus on our trial on Saturday.


----------



## CptJack

> The only sucky part was because my dogs were the only 8" jumpers we'd either have to run me back to back or move the bars an extra time to set them at 8".


We had this.

I hated every second of it. Not the running back to back, that wasn't a thing since practices usually had another short dog but being the only one running a height and having to bar set while Kylie waited?

UGH.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> It's best to keep them in separate classes. Mia and Summer were in the same class a long time though- year or so. But we crate between turns anyways so it's just the same as usual.
> 
> The only sucky part was because my dogs were the only 8" jumpers we'd either have to run me back to back or move the bars an extra time to set them at 8".
> 
> But you shouldn't have them in the same class since by the time you start up with the puppy the older dog should have moved on to more advanced things.
> 
> 5 is NOT old though. Summer is working on 11. I do think she's getting close to retirement. Was a bit slow tonight. But she had fun and so did I.
> 
> I'm so excited to start Hank. I just want to skip to November 8th haha. Though I guess I should focus on our trial on Saturday.


Well given I don't know Josefina's back round nor breeding, I am sure her parents were health tested and question if they were even pure bred, I don't know how long her joints will hold up, plus she is a bigger dog than summer or mia.


----------



## sassafras

We've just started to do some short sequences, in the final weeks of our foundations classes. Squash apparently wanted to go say HI DAD to my husband before the tunnel (he was sitting in a chair to the left of the camera, which is sitting on Squash's travel crate).


----------



## Laurelin

So you are going to trial with him, right?  That must happen. At least once.


----------



## sassafras

Someday, maybe.


----------



## CptJack

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Well given I don't know Josefina's back round nor breeding, I am sure her parents were health tested and question if they were even pure bred, I don't know how long her joints will hold up, plus she is a bigger dog than summer or mia.


Bug is 8 (well, nearly).

Bug has a grade IV heart murmur, no face, and two luxatting patellas. She does fine. I plan for her to do more fine and expect, easily, for her to be able to play with agility for at least a couple of more years. She IS smaller, but she's still a nearly 20lb dog.

Barring something happening I'd expect at least several more years with Josefina.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

I hope one day I can do agility trials ... but we aren't there yet and might not be for a good year or so


----------



## Laurelin

sassafras said:


> Someday, maybe.


I'm sending all the peer pressure vibes.


----------



## Laurelin

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I hope one day I can do agility trials ... but we aren't there yet and might not be for a good year or so


It usually takes a year or two of training to make it to a trial. Definitely not something you can pick up in just a couple classes! No need to rush things.


----------



## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> I'm sending all the peer pressure vibes.


Well I can hardly deny the world the potential YouTube hilarity that might ensue. 



OwnedbyACDs said:


> I hope one day I can do agility trials ... but we aren't there yet and might not be for a good year or so


Honestly I think a year is a pretty reasonable time frame. I mean, we started our foundations courses in May of this year. The club I go to splits foundations into 4-6 week units, the first was focus and shaping, and practicing on stuff like wobble boards and learning the basics of sending a dog out and the foundations of crosses for we handlers to learn. Then we would have separate units for tunnel/chute, contact equipment, weaves and jumps, etc. with a lot more handling practice for us with crosses, etc. peppered in with the dogs learning the skills. 

I really, really like the way it's been taught without rushing, and now moving on to the next level of courses we will continue doing increasingly longer sequences and working on our handling skills. But unless we absolutely catch on fire moving forwards, I don't see us trialing until we've been in classes for at least a year, so next spring or summer at the earliest.


----------



## CptJack

We *could* have done a novice trail this past weekend. Might have gotten a Q, probably wouldn't have, and that's NADAC with less equipment and somewhat more lax rules. That would have been 10 months of classes/practices. More than likely our first trial will be the last weekend in April. That'll be a year and some change and I'm MUCH more comfortable with that. 

Molly is starting exactly a year later and hopefully will trial a year later. 

Or maybe I'll continue to chicken out and just do the show 'n goes that happen around the local trials. Who knows.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

But even if we never get to do trials, just going to classes is fine also, she clearly loves it and every time I get something out of my truck she runs to it with this expression like "is it time to go back to that fun place yet?" Lol ... at least she is having fun.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> I'm sending all the peer pressure vibes.


Oh yeah, me too!! Go Squash!!!

Zoey and I trained for almost exactly a year before our first CPE trial, and then an additional 7 months before our first AKC trial.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

sassafras said:


> We've just started to do some short sequences, in the final weeks of our foundations classes. Squash apparently wanted to go say HI DAD to my husband before the tunnel (he was sitting in a chair to the left of the camera, which is sitting on Squash's travel crate).


Wow, sass. your agility training area looks a lot like the one we go to! same floor and everything!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Before I do any Obedience on Wednesdays, I can use the arena on my own so as the Agility equipment is always set up, I usually run Kris over some of the equipment. She is doing good with all the equipment but yesterday when I put her through the Chute, she got all tangled up in it so scared to go through it so now I have to start all over with it. They are buying a new chute so I will not try till they get the new one as do not want a repeat of the tangle. We do have a chute of our own but my sister has packed all the equipment away for the winter so don't want to pull it back out, will just wait for the new one. At least they put the old cute away so other dogs are not going to have the same problem.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Josefina is making progress ... at least she will go through the chute when I hold it open, before she wouldnt even do that. I have been dropping it down on her as she goes through it though. But she does seem to really be enjoying herself and thats all that matters.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I plan on doing the fake/practice trials once spring/early summer rolls around. Depends how things go, but hopefully we will be ready for real trailing by late next summer or fall. I'm not sure what to trial in. AKC for sure, but I really don't know anything about the others. CPE has all those weird games, but they are kind of interesting so maybe I would try that.


----------



## MrsBoats

Here's a blog post you guys should probably read. I posted it in the conditioning thread too. It's about injuries in agility dogs and it's got some very interesting stats in it. One of the more interesting stats is that with novice agility teams the rate of injury is much higher than that of people who have been running agility dogs for over 5 years. 

http://pawsitivestridesrehab.com/2014/10/


----------



## Laurelin

We had a nice trial day. Sad we can't go tomorrow but oh we'll. we only did 3 runs. All were good and first places but only 1 Q in standard. Standard went well and she did her 12 weaves slowly but did them! Gamblers was good but I stepped over the line to send to the chute (she's not a fan). Jumpers would have been a Q but I messed us up. I knew she is not good with rear crossing tunnels. I walked it with a front cross but ended up switching last secon to rear cross. She popped out like I knew she would. We finished amazingly though. 

Hank was super popular and did great. He was less overstimulated than I thought around the big fast dogs. It's definitely going to be a thing he will need work on though. 

Worked Hank on some sends and wraps and HOLYSHIT he was fast. Like... fastfastfast.

I am feeling a bit of pressure because we get so many comments from people who have known me a long time about him. Everyone keeps telling me he's going to be spectacular and I really think he will be. So far he seems to be. But I keep wondering what happens if he sucks? lol 

I don't know how many questions about where he came from, what he is, if I'm doing agility with him, is he trialling yet, etc I got. I also got a lot of comments about how lucky he is . It sounds corny but I really feel like I am the lucky half of the equation. He is everything I wanted and then more drive on top of that. I hope I can do him justice. I have a feeling he's going to be the agility dog of a lifetime. 

Mia was a grump and snubbed everyone at the trial.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Josefina is so awesome, at class last week, she wouldn't go through the chute by herself, so I told her to sit/stay at the entrance while I went to the other side, held it open and called her. I dropped it on her as she went through and it didn't even phase her. That and she went through the open tunnel WITH a turn in it and did the teeter all by herself!

So proud of my girl!


----------



## Laurelin

Not bad at all for Old Tiny Dog.  14 seconds under course time in USDAA standard. 



> Summer.
> Performance I Standard - 8 Inch - Judge: Richard Deppe
> Distance: 128 yards SCT: 65 seconds
> Score: 0.00 (Q) Time: 51.27 seconds 1st Place


she had so much fun too. She gets so excited when I pull her out and line her up. I think she might like the line up the best. She's figured out that she has so many adoring fans after her runs that tell her she's a good girl and hold her. I swear after Summer runs she is usually passed around to a half a dozen people. 

Love that dog.

ETA: Her jumpers run was actually not far off either considering the rear-cross fiasco and her running out the tunnel and running the opposite direction from me then me taking a good while to set us back up. We were only 3 seconds over time even with all that. 



> Performance I Jumpers - 8 Inch - Judge: Richard Deppe
> Distance: 115 yards SCT: 39 seconds
> Score: 3.36 (NQ) Time: 42.36 seconds 1st Place


Gamblers we got the points (needed 18) but no gamble.



> Performance I Gamblers - 8 Inch - Judge: Richard Deppe
> Score: 22 (NQ) Time: 43.83 seconds 1st Place


----------



## LoMD13

Wow, You and Summer had a fantastic trial!! That standard run must have been something special! 

Hopefully some of that will rub off on Lola this week.


----------



## Sibe

Go Summer!!!!! What a fantastic trial


----------



## Kyllobernese

They are carrying on with our Obedience classes for another three Thursdays. After the Obedience, they have the dogs doing Agility. I have usually just taken Kris out to her crate as she gets so excited seeing them run. However, last Thursday, I kept her in the arena as there were only three dogs doing the obstacles. I then took a turn with her and as I have never run her on-leash, I took the leash off and she was really good, never bothered at all with the other dogs standing there. She must finally be growing up.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Go Summer! Do you have any videos Laurelin?

We played practice Snooker today. It went much better than Jackpot, but we still didn't "Q". We knocked a bar and had a slight teeter mishap, which is really no big deal since she listened to everything I asked her to do. We also did the longest start line stay I've ever had her do.. which was like halfway across the room. Holy crap she did it and did it beautifully. Dogs were barking and just entering the building too. So proud of her.


----------



## So Cavalier

Oh well.....our standard run yesterday for our C-ATCH 2 turned into a 55 fault comedy of errors. It was over almost before it started when Gemma broke her start line stay and knocked over the first jump. She almost never knocks poles. It went downhill from there. The weaves were in an area that was really mushy from the rains and hard for me to support and she popped them. I started her over a second time and she popped both times so we moved on....we were so disconnected that we had a few off courses so I decided just to end it and send her to the finish. It wouldn't have been so bad except all my friends were watching and they were waiting with the ribbon and pole....You just gotta smile and love your dog! I have two trials coming up in Feb so we will try again then. There are a couple before then but I want her to get her C-ATCH with our club.

The good news is she went 5 for 5 on Saturday and 8 for 10 for the weekend.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Boo! We might have to miss our agility class tomorrow because of weather


----------



## CptJack

Jan. 20 is Molly's start date and Kylie's return to intermediate classes. Which aren't really intermediate or classes, but that's neither here nor there.


----------



## Laurelin

I do have a video! I'll have to post it. She did good. The only one I videod was standard but I actually haven't gotten a video of her Qing in a big dog venue before. 

I also have a video of Hank to post doing some work (low jumps of course).


----------



## SDRRanger

Had my last agility class of the session and will be taking a break for the next 6 weeks (have a medical procedure coming up so moving quickly won't be on the table for a few weeks) and possibly longer depending on what happens there. 

Ranger had a great class tonight. He took a tunnel from a 40' away send, didn't launch himself from the top of the A-frame, and had no issues with a very loud teeter. He's working better at not keeping his eyes on me (ie looking where he is going) and really enjoying himself. Hoping we can keep up with some things at home and come back to it once I'm better. 

Instructor invited me to come watch classes while I can't participate so at least I'll know where the rest of the class is at.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Boo couldn't go to agility tonight because weather


----------



## Laurelin

Here's Hank and Summer. I call this one 'Why I need to get in shape ASAP' lol Or alternatively 'Why my neighbors think I'm crazy' 

Also I did not notice I had the jumps set at different heights for Summer till JUST now. Whoops.





Here's Hank being Crazypants.


----------



## Laurelin

Summer's standard Q in USDAA.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Laurelin and Summer!! And congrats to Gemma and So Cav!

Zoey was absolutely rocking her weaves tonight. Like a superstar. I've been really working on amping her up at the training building and it's been working really great. She's been gaining confidence in her weaves and is really starting to drive through them and totally understand her job with them. I couldn't believe how fast she was tonight, and only once where she missed the entry and once where she popped, and both times I had distractions out meant to cause those things to happen. One time she came fast out of a tunnel to the weaves at an angle and skidded a little on the floor as she came into the weaves and I thought for sure she would pop out because that was a fast and hard entry and I thought skidding into the weaves might scare her a little. No. Not at all. She dug in and powered through. We had quite the party after that one!! By getting her all amped up I'm starting to see more of my happy girl and less of the always so serious girl. She almost had zoomies once tonight! I was so beyond thrilled tonight. I tried to get video but my stupid phone wouldn't work, of course.

New class with my favorite instructor starts Thursday. And AKC trial Saturday.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

I am seriously in love with hank, he just oozes awesomeness! !! What a gem, WTH was he doing st the freaking shelter?


----------



## Laurelin

I wonder about him a lot. What his story is mostly. He was a really great find but I think there's a lot of great dogs in shelters out there. He is a lot of fun!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> I wonder about him a lot. What his story is mostly. He was a really great find but I think there's a lot of great dogs in shelters out there. He is a lot of fun!


Well, Buddy was from a shelter, and Josefina was too and they are such great dogs I can't imagine how someone didn't want them. Lol my folks liked Buddy so much they asked if they could "adopt" him from me! Their old dog I'd getting old and may not have much time left and they have another rescued dog who has neurological issues from being dumped in a plastic garbage bag as a puppy and she needs companionship of another dog.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Summer's standard Q in USDAA.



She did great! I am sure when I eventually start to trial with Belle I will probably run into something. LOL! Our classes are in a much smaller building than in your video and sometimes things are pretty close together and I am not good at watching where I am going while trying to watch Belle. Usually right now if she misses something it is due to me not being in the right place for her to realize where I want her to go. But we are having fun. This weeks class didn't have the larger barking dogs and Belle wasn't stressed at all which was nice.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh wow! one of my high school friends is in my new agility class with Hank! Haven't seen her since high school. How weird.


----------



## So Cavalier

So I have been training in a beautiful field adjacent to a dog boarding facility. It is in a canyon that is surrounded by homes. I have trained there for several years now. With the time change, our class starts in the dark. My trainer has lights set up around the field but it is still dark. Tonight we had a full moon and it was fluffy white dog, Baxter's class. Normally there are 5 or 6 dogs in the class but lately the numbers have dwindled down to 4 or 5. Tonight it was just Baxter and me and another woman and her young aussie. So we are doing sequences and then we went to a small pen to practice weaves. Baxter is a bouncy boy and he is doing his weaves beautifully (four straight!), when my class mate says...."oh, look, a coyote!". Sure enough, there is a coyote sitting out in the field just calmly looking at us. I grabbed Baxter immediately. My trainer and I are yelling at the coyote and he just sits there calmly looking at us. He eventually just gets up and walks away along the side of the field and we lose sight of him. My trainer grabs a jump pole. We spend a few minutes working on the table on leash...but my stomach is in knots. We didn't see the coyote again but I am still freaked out. I have been training there for so long (years) and training at night when the time changes and I have never seen or heard a coyote before. It was just creepy.


----------



## LoMD13

OMG, so scary about the coyote! 

Lola and I did pairs in class for the first time with a little Sweet Cav, and Lola is in LOVE with that dog. Little wiggly dogs are her favorite thing in the whole entire world. She also did pretty fantastic, so fast and peppy. So we'll see how the trial goes! I'm cautiously optimistic.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank can officially join in this thread!

We mainly did some circle work and crate games. Also he acted like he'd never seen a tunnel ever before.

He was so distracted by other dogs he wouldn't play with his tug but he did play ball. I hope we can get that toy drive up!

Our class seems like a good group of dogs. There's a dog there that could pass as Hank's littermate which is kind of weird.


----------



## So Cavalier

LoMD13 said:


> OMG, so scary about the coyote!
> 
> Lola and I did pairs in class for the first time with a little Sweet Cav, and Lola is in LOVE with that dog. Little wiggly dogs are her favorite thing in the whole entire world. She also did pretty fantastic, so fast and peppy. So we'll see how the trial goes! I'm cautiously optimistic.


Gemma would love to train with Lola..so would fluffy little white dog, Baxter. When do you trial? What venue?


----------



## LoMD13

So Cavalier said:


> Gemma would love to train with Lola..so would fluffy little white dog, Baxter. When do you trial? What venue?


Lo would be be head over heels in love with either of them. Whenever she's not running she's making goo goo eyes at the little dogs. LOL

We're trialing tomorrow, bright and early! USDAA. I really need to get her going with AKC though because I've heard the courses are a bit more compact and flowy.


----------



## So Cavalier

Good luck tomorrow!


----------



## kadylady

DOUBLE Q FOR ZOEY!!!!

Zoey picked up her first pair of AKC Open Q's today!!!!! I could not be prouder of us right now!!!



Our day started with a crazy T2B run where she wouldn't weave, missed a whole bunch of jumps, but held 2 A-frame contacts until released. I was feeling a little meh and frustrated with her weave avoidance. Long break must have done us both good.

Open Standard. Held A-frame contact, nailed weave entry, held dog walk contact, only lost connection once at the second to last jump, I was going for a rear and pushed on her line too much too soon, but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing because I was worried about the off course triple out ahead of us and that runaround allowed us to avoid that.






Open JWW. I still can't believe how smooth and connected this run felt! Only 1 little bobble before the red wing jump where I reared on the flat, didn't give her enough time and motion to get ahead of me but she compensated so well and we reconnected immediately. No hesitation in her weaves. About halfway through this run I realized just how smooth and connected it was and it was such a great feeling.






There 2 runs today and finally felt like a team, like a we, instead of a her and I. And it felt great! Super super super happy and on cloud nine right now!!


----------



## Laurelin

Hanky Pank!

Note: I don't encourage the bouncing off of me. He just started that like 2 days ago. For some reason spinning has turned into that.






ETA: Woohoo Zoey! Congrats on the awesome runs!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Great job Zoey! Nice runs!

Hank looks great! He's gonna be wicked fast.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Good luck Lo!!!!! 

Yay Zoey!!! You guys are looking really smooth 

OMG Hank is looking so fun!


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks! I think he's going to be a blast to train. He seems to just really love it already.


----------



## So Cavalier

I loved watching your runs KadyLady! You really did look so connected! It seems so different for me to see indoor runs. I only trial outdoors. I think I would run into one of the support beams!


----------



## kadylady

Thanks everyone!! Still on cloud nine today and have been obsessively watching the videos. lol



So Cavalier said:


> I loved watching your runs KadyLady! You really did look so connected! It seems so different for me to see indoor runs. I only trial outdoors. I think I would run into one of the support beams!


Ha, the support beams can take a little getting used it. Luckily they are heavily padded just for that purpose!


----------



## LoMD13

Lola and I had our best trial evah. She got a Q (and a first place but we didn't actually have competition haha) in Jumpers, and that gave us our Starters Jumpers title! Pretty slow to begin with, but she re-grouped after the first jump and the tunnels energized her. She was 6 seconds under time. 

And then we had to hang around all day until Standard, I had low expectations because it was the very end of the day and she's turned off on me before. This time she ran BEAUTIFULLY, fast and peppy and we just had a great time. perfect weaves perfect contacts, ran to the end of the teeter and rode it down. She even down'd on the table without TOO much fuss. 9 seconds under time. First Q in Standard!


----------



## So Cavalier

Yay Lola! Congrats on the title....My goodness Lola is one cute little dog.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats to you and Lola!


----------



## CptJack

And we're back. Drop in classes are being run for a couple of hours on Sundays. One is for object discrimination that's running 3 weeks, the other is finally weaves that runs through all of December. Probably won't make it every week but I'll certainly make it for some. I just want to go back and play some more.


----------



## LoMD13

Thanks guys! It was the first time that she's really had fun and ran as fast as she does in class. We've squeaked out a few Q's in the past, but these ones were perfect. 

Congrats to you and Zoey as well!! Very, very smooth!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our Agility club yesterday and we are going to have Drop-ins the next four Saturdays. I take Kris in on Saturdays for Obedience practice at 11 am, then the drop in for Agility will be from 12:30 to 2:30. I will take Remmy to the Agility for now as he works good at a distance so won't have to do much running with him. It is a big indoor arena but does get cold in there. We do the Obedience upstairs where it is heated so go all winter with it.

It went down to -5 last night and the "Polar Vortex" is heading our way so it is going to turn cold for a while, -10 at night and below freezing during the day and any precipitation will be snow not rain.


----------



## CptJack

I am admittedly not really excited about the weather coming out. The agility barn is heated, but it isn't insulated at all so the heat doesn't do a whole heck of a lot. Drop in practices are outside. High for the day of our treibball workshop is something like 35. I will be wearing layers and Kylie will be wearing a coat. Both dogs will be wearing coats when we start doing agility classes again in Jan. Kylie will probably lose hers since we'll be running a lot. Molly I'll likely keep wrapped up because foundations classes are never high energy. 

And after this summer's classes, I'll take the cold over the heat. Agility in 95+ degree temps was AWFUL.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Our agility classes take place in one of those big metal dome things. The heating is freaking weird and makes it super hot, then you'll freeze for a few minutes.. then burn to a crisp. In the summer there's only big ol' fans, but it's actually not too bad. I can't take any of the specialty classes they are offering over the holidays such as weaves, jumping, and ugh they are having a TRICKS class. I drive an hour there.. and I don't trust Ohio's weather to treat me kindly.


----------



## Laurelin

Our NTI tunnel came in yesterday! The papillons thought it was Christmas having a tunnel in the living room.



Weird thing about Hank though is every tunnel he's seen so far he has to re-learn. The process goes shorter with each but he does not seem to be generalizing them at all. They are all the same size but in different rooms/buildings and different colors. I haven't curved them yet and have kept them fairly short. Anyone experience that? 



Jump stands he has gotten wherever we take them and generally this is a dog that learns in 1 repetition. Even with re-learning each tunnel once he does it once he's got it again.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

I tried the class off lead with Josefina for the first time and she did AWESOME everyone was impressed with her awesomeness, and the instructor says that we might be moving to the advanced class in a couple of weeks if we keep progressing like we are ... she even did the chute by herself! So proud of her!!!


----------



## kadylady

Zoey tugged in class last night! (Which is a really big deal! Serious worker dog is not too serious to play!) We are learning how to play together and it makes my heart happy. That is all. :whoo:


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Question that doesn't warrant it's own thread and since it is related to agility:

I did the entire class off lead last week and Josefina did really well, but I have a problem, when i take her off the two malinois in my class get really excited and the ladies have a hard time controlling them, i feel bad and guilty that I am causing them problems, should I feel that way? It's not like I am parading my dog in front of them on purpose, but the instructor tells us it's ok for us to work on some of the obstacles BTW our turns, so I do and it makes them excited, am I wrong?


----------



## LoMD13

I don't know, I'd be really frustrated with dogs in the ring doing obstacles if I were taking my turn with Lola. Agility's hard enough as it is without the additional distraction.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

LoMD13 said:


> I don't know, I'd be really frustrated with dogs in the ring doing obstacles if I were taking my turn with Lola. Agility's hard enough as it is without the additional distraction.


Everyone else does it. Even the two teenage malinois when I am taking my turn.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> I don't know, I'd be really frustrated with dogs in the ring doing obstacles if I were taking my turn with Lola. Agility's hard enough as it is without the additional distraction.


Yeah, this.

The mals reactivity is the problem of their owners. They are, absolutely, going to need to learn to deal with it (the dogs and their owners) both to distraction in general and dogs running in particular, BUT:

Your practice between turns should not be interfering with their ability to have their turn. It's a low level class, and some consideration and support for your classmates will go a long way. Frankly I don't know why your instructor is allowing this. When the teenage golden in Kylie's classes went through a STAGE with being distractable and wanting to play with Kylie, the instructor encouraged me to pick her up and turn my back on his runs. 

Not to not let Kylie have hers, though it sitll excited him, but to help support a classmate and her dog to get HER dog's turn and learning opportunity.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> Yeah, this.
> 
> The mals reactivity is the problem of their owners. They are, absolutely, going to need to learn to deal with it (the dogs and their owners) both to distraction in general and dogs running in particular, BUT:
> 
> Your practice between turns should not be interfering with their ability to have their turn. It's a low level class, and some consideration and support for your classmates will go a long way. Frankly I don't know why your instructor is allowing this. When the teenage golden in Kylie's classes went through a STAGE with being distractable and wanting to play with Kylie, the instructor encouraged me to pick her up and turn my back on his runs.
> 
> Not to not let Kylie have hers, though it sitll excited him, but to help support a classmate and her dog to get HER dog's turn and learning opportunity.


I usually pick an obstacle that is away from what we are doing, I don't do jumps because she knows them well, usually we practice the chute or the teeter since she has trouble in those areas, but her being off leash at all is very arousing for them even if she is just standing there.


----------



## CptJack

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I usually pick an obstacle that is away from what we are doing, I don't do jumps because she knows them well, usually we practice the chute or the teeter since she has trouble in those areas, but her being off leash at all is very arousing for them even if she is just standing there.


Well, if they're trying to have their turn on the equipment being worked on, my advice would be to keep her leashed up and work with her during your turns. It's nice that that 'work on equipment between' is something your instructor allows, but that's not part of the CLASS. It's a between and in idle moments thing and it seems like your activities between and in idle moments are causing the other dogs to lose out on actual instructional time.

The Mals absolutely need to be getting a grip but some consideration on your part would go a long way toward making that happen.

That said, if the instructor had a problem she'd say something and it's her class, so her rules. I just have trouble wrapping my head around it because everything from 'use the teeter without instructor supervision' to letting more than one dog be on equipment at once is utterly foreign to me in a beginner class.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> Well, if they're trying to have their turn on the equipment being worked on, my advice would be to keep her leashed up and work with her during your turns. It's nice that that 'work on equipment between' is something your instructor allows, but that's not part of the CLASS. It's a between and in idle moments thing and it seems like your activities between and in idle moments are causing the other dogs to lose out on actual instructional time.
> 
> The Mals absolutely need to be getting a grip but some consideration on your part would go a long way toward making that happen.
> 
> That said, if the instructor had a problem she'd say something and it's her class, so her rules. I just have trouble wrapping my head around it because everything from 'use the teeter without instructor supervision' to letting more than one dog be on equipment at once is utterly foreign to me in a beginner class.


I usually get there early, maybe I could use that time to work on the obstacles I need to work on, even though he allows it, I don't think I will be doing any extra work and I will leash her BTW turns from now on, though she stays right by me and doesn't wonder, I also keep an eye on her. They are very nice ladies but they have their hands full and I don't want to make it worse. I want to be supportive and help them.

Also it's a small class, just me, the malinois, and a golden doodle and it's a huge area so it is possible to get away from one another ... but still I don't think I will be doing it any more.


----------



## LoMD13

I don't even think Lola would be comfortable with big off leash dogs doing the teeter and chute while we trying to run a course. If it were me I think i'd probably talk to the instructor about it after class one day. It sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me, but working a tiny dog around a lot of high drive dogs i'm probably hyperaware of safety issues.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Yeah we don't have any small breed dogs in our class, Josefina is the smallest in the class and she is in the 16 inch range.

But still, I won't be doing extracurricular obstacles while I wait and I will re leash my dog ... the only reason why I wasn't is because it takes a bit if time for me to fumble around with taking her off then stuffing the lead into my pocket, I feel it takes too much time and therefore takes away from everyone else's time.


----------



## LoMD13

I think if you decide to keep working in the ring, i'd just choose a jump and take it as far away from the dogs working as possible. Outside the ring preferably! She might know how to jump but you can practice wraps, front crosses rear crosses, Ketshkers etc. There's an endless amount. Of stuff you can work on with just a jumo.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

LoMD13 said:


> I think if you decide to keep working in the ring, i'd just choose a jump and take it as far away from the dogs working as possible. Outside the ring preferably! She might know how to jump but you can practice wraps, front crosses rear crosses, Ketshkers etc. There's an endless amount. Of stuff you can work on with just a jumo.


She does the crosses and the wraps very well, I have jumps here I don't have the tunnels and the teeters here but I can always get there like 15 min before class and do some shaping work and it would be even better for us because we would be alone since everyone else gets there like 5 min before class. Problem solved


----------



## Finkie_Mom

If there are no barriers between where you would be working and the Mals when it is their turn, that is definitely an issue (unsupervised equipment use in a low level class aside). I would not have two dogs off leash working at once while technically in the same "ring," ever (obviously there are exceptions, but IMO they are few and far between). As far as the reactivity goes, as long as you are leashing your dog between turns and your dog is not adding to the issue, that is just something they have to work on with their own dogs. You can help by giving lots of space and making sure your dog is completely under control (which sounds like is the case).


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Finkie_Mom said:


> If there are no barriers between where you would be working and the Mals when it is their turn, that is definitely an issue (unsupervised equipment use in a low level class aside). I would not have two dogs off leash working at once while technically in the same "ring," ever (obviously there are exceptions, but IMO they are few and far between). As far as the reactivity goes, as long as you are leashing your dog between turns and your dog is not adding to the issue, that is just something they have to work on with their own dogs. You can help by giving lots of space and making sure your dog is completely under control (which sounds like is the case).


Oh yeah she is awesome, when it's her run they bark and carry on at her and bark and lunge (but they stay on the other side of the ring on a leash during others runs, just as I do when it's someone else's turn) but she pays no mind to them. I just want to be considerate as possible and help these poor people any way I can ... they seem like nice, good people.


----------



## sassafras

We have our first night in intermediate class tonight. Which basically means starting to run short courses. This should be interesting.


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> We have our first night in intermediate class tonight. Which basically means starting to run short courses. This should be interesting.


Good luck! Let us know how it goes.


----------



## sassafras

Orrrrr not, because it's teacup night. whomp whomp


----------



## LoMD13

I can't wait to hear how Squashies does in Intermediate. 

Lola did OK in class yesterday. She was a little bit pokey, but not bad. We did some tough weave pole entries and she nailed it. BUT my whole night was made because my trainer said the judge at the trial this past weekend absolutely LOVED Lola. So that was cool to hear. I think one thing we are really going to focus on the next few weeks is rewarding her for taking the leash off and making the leash coming off a cue to get ready.

I also just found a TDAA trial happening in December in NH and I think I'm going to go for it. Laurelin, how different was TDAA to USDAA? They say they have 30 minutes at the beginning of the day for getting used to their obstacles, is that totally nessecary? How different are we talking about here?


----------



## So Cavalier

> They say they have 30 minutes at the beginning of the day for getting used to their obstacles, is that totally nessecary? How different are we talking about here?


I am a little curious about this too. There is a group putting on TDAA trials about a hour from here. I have thought about entering, but wondered if the difference is equipment size would confuse Gemma. I am thinking about entering once she is retired from CPE.


----------



## Laurelin

LoMD13 said:


> I can't wait to hear how Squashies does in Intermediate.
> 
> Lola did OK in class yesterday. She was a little bit pokey, but not bad. We did some tough weave pole entries and she nailed it. BUT my whole night was made because my trainer said the judge at the trial this past weekend absolutely LOVED Lola. So that was cool to hear. I think one thing we are really going to focus on the next few weeks is rewarding her for taking the leash off and making the leash coming off a cue to get ready.
> 
> I also just found a TDAA trial happening in December in NH and I think I'm going to go for it. Laurelin, how different was TDAA to USDAA? They say they have 30 minutes at the beginning of the day for getting used to their obstacles, is that totally nessecary? How different are we talking about here?


COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. So laid back here compared to USDAA. Smaller trials. It's fantastic.

I would do the obstacle familiarization because it's available. The tunnels are the only things that confuse my dogs and mostly Hank because he's a bit bigger. 

In my group, all the dogs train on standard equipment and are fine with TDAA equipment. They're all 4-8" dogs though.

Hank did good today. We missed a lot of our class because I signed up for the barn hunt a long time ago and the times overlapped. But he did good at both. 

It is strange being the only one who has done this all before in class. Hank knows all the stuff already and I feel kinda bad telling the trainer/my friend to skip the basics in front of the other people. There one lady trying to mimic me so I have to be careful because I'm just playing around with other tricks sometimes and she keeps asking why am I doing this this way? (because we're finishing the exercises so fast- today for example was 'what is shaping' and teaching the dog to stand on an object when Hank already knows how to pivot on an object)


----------



## LoMD13

Cool! I'm really looking foward to it, but admittedly nervous since it'll be our first time at a new place and our first time outside USDAA. I *think* she'll be fine with the equipment, but i'm going to go in with zero expectations. I'm mostly worried about her getting a little too cocky with the little contacts, but I have plenty of time to reinforce contacts before then.


----------



## Laurelin

Our new tunnel!






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFp4tQJu6-U


----------



## Kyllobernese

Nice that it warmed up to -5 today for our drop-in Agility. I did the half hour Obedience class with Kris first, then put Remmy over some of the obstacles in the Agility in the Drop-in. I did not want to do it with Kris yet as she is still a little wild running Agility. Much better to do her on my own for a while yet. There were seven people who turned up, one with three dogs and one with two so busy place.


----------



## kadylady

AKC on Saturday. Wow was she moving! Fast and connected! We've trialed in agility 4 of the last 5 weekends and Zoey has gotten faster and more confident at each trial. I was really happy with our runs Saturday. We had some issues with the weaves (popping out) which kept us from Q'ing but we just need to up our proofing. My handling was mostly good and where it wasn't she compensated for me. We've had fast and crazy and we've had connected and slower, this time we had faster and connected! My instructor said we looked like we really knew what we were doing out there! And a woman that I had never met before commented on how she had seen us a couple weeks ago and couldn't believe how much more confident she looked out there compared to just a few weeks earlier. That comment was just the icing on the cake.

Open Standard - love that first line, should have made her go back and do the weaves again but didn't, it's hard to make that decision in the moment sometimes. 






Open JWW - Love how she comes of the start line and happy with my handling until I called her off that jump before the tunnel, and gah, that pop out on the last pole! but look how happy she is to go back and try again! something that used to have the potential to shut her down. 





We have this weekend off and then Thanksgiving weekend is my club's big show, we're entered Fri, Sat, Sun and it takes place in a big horse arena. So there will be 2 rings running, running on dirt for the first time, horse/cow/sheep poop smells, birds flying through the barn...all sorts of good stuff. Should be interesting!


----------



## parus

Finkie_Mom said:


> If there are no barriers between where you would be working and the Mals when it is their turn, that is definitely an issue (unsupervised equipment use in a low level class aside). I would not have two dogs off leash working at once while technically in the same "ring," ever (obviously there are exceptions, but IMO they are few and far between). As far as the reactivity goes, as long as you are leashing your dog between turns and your dog is not adding to the issue, that is just something they have to work on with their own dogs. You can help by giving lots of space and making sure your dog is completely under control (which sounds like is the case).


At the agility class I'm taking they went one step further and we're supposed to crate our dogs while another dog is running the course. I really like the policy, although admittedly it is a PITA to drag my gigantic xxl crate to class.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Josefina and I have now officially moved to the novice intermediate class!!! So proud of her!!!


----------



## kadylady

My instructor had me run her super fast BC through a couple short sequences last night after our class!! OMG!! It was exhilarating! And a little scary to have something coming at me that fast lol But it made me move faster and stay out of his way, which was what I think she wanted me to see and feel. It was really fun though. And was an awesome feeling for her to be comfortable enough to let me do that with him. And wowee what a tugger he is! Not used to that either but it was definitely fun.

Also, Zoey wanted to play tug out in the backyard yesterday when I got home from work and was trying to shovel, but I didn't have anything to tug with. So not wanting to disappoint my girl that never offers to tug... we played tug with my winter gloves...she ripped a hole in them! And that made me happy!


----------



## trainingjunkie

kadylady said:


> My instructor had me run her super fast BC through a couple short sequences last night after our class!! OMG!! It was exhilarating! And a little scary to have something coming at me that fast lol But it made me move faster and stay out of his way, which was what I think she wanted me to see and feel. It was really fun though. And was an awesome feeling for her to be comfortable enough to let me do that with him. And wowee what a tugger he is! Not used to that either but it was definitely fun.
> 
> Also, Zoey wanted to play tug out in the backyard yesterday when I got home from work and was trying to shovel, but I didn't have anything to tug with. So not wanting to disappoint my girl that never offers to tug... we played tug with my winter gloves...she ripped a hole in them! And that made me happy!


It's fun to read this! Isn't it crazy how different the game feels with a different partner!

Congratulations on the tugging! Here's to more wrecked stuff!


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie said:


> It's fun to read this! Isn't it crazy how different the game feels with a different partner!
> 
> Congratulations on the tugging! Here's to more wrecked stuff!


Oh my gosh yes! It was a totally different feeling! And not just the speed factor, the level of intensity, how he read me vs how Zoey reads me, how/when I had to cue, how much I had to cue...everything! It really made me think about how I needed to adjust my timing and my handling. Which I think is really good for me. The more comfortable I can become at adjusting my handling the better a handler it will make me and help build my own confidence in my handling. Zoey is a little bit different every time we come to a start line and I'm learning to have A) have a backup plan and B) be able to adjust on the fly. My instructor told me that she was starting to see me get more confident in our runs and that is in turn helping build Zoey's confidence. 

The tugging is a new and exciting thing for us! She was actually tugging like crazy at the end of the night last night while we were standing around talking after class. I was like what is this and who is this dog?!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

trainingjunkie said:


> It's fun to read this! Isn't it crazy how different the game feels with a different partner!
> 
> Congratulations on the tugging! Here's to more wrecked stuff!


Josefina loves to tug her leash when she does good in agility and I let her, its not that expensive and she has a really good out, so I let her.


----------



## sassafras

Ok, TONIGHT for reals is our first night in intermediate.


----------



## sassafras

So, I love this dog.

The intermediate class is at a different facility than the foundations classes were. Much larger space, and we were doing jumping drills last night with just 4-7 jumps in various patterns but there was a full course set up around it. Mostly different dogs in the class (only one person/dog from our foundations class doing this time). 

So my point is there was a whole lot of new. 

The first time we were in the ring he was clearly overstimulated and kind of wandering off, inattentive. But we got it together and worked through it and we did our first drill successfully. It was just three jumps in a row, front cross and have the dog come back over the first two jumps. 

The second time, he was amazing. Not perfect, and unfortunately he has a very clumsy novice handler who messed him up a couple of times, but holy cow this dog loves to play so much and he is so fun to play with. It's amazing how much of a difference the bigger space makes in allowing him to really get moving. I can't describe the course in words but there were some direction changes and discriminating between which jumps to take and for our first time I think he did very well. I forgot to bring the GoPro, sadly. I'll remember next time hopefully.

Also, it's funny how people think a sheltie was barking throughout the drill is par for the course but get slightly freaked out and uncomfortable when a polar bear ROOAARS throughout the course until they realize that's just his I'M HAVING A LOT OF FUN FEELINGS valve leaking.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I would pay to watch footage of the Roaring Joy! Did you take any? Where was class?


----------



## sassafras

trainingjunkie said:


> I would pay to watch footage of the Roaring Joy! Did you take any? Where was class?


No, I forgot my GoPro.  I will try to remember to grab it next time, no class next week but the week after.

We're doing Cloud Nine, this is their New Hope location which is HUGE. We went through their foundations series over the course of the spring/summer/fall at the smaller location and I really liked how they went through it really slowly and deliberately.


----------



## Laurelin

It is still so weird hearing class levels for me. There's only 2 classes that have levels at the place I go- Pre-Agility/Puppy Agility and then the Master's level class. That one is invite only and for people who are competing at the master's level. Everything else is just.... agility class grouped so you're with dogs at similar levels.

I think... Summer and I had our last class. It's tough but I want to end on a good note and I am seeing more and more signs that she is starting to have more trouble with agility than in the past. I feel like we're dragging our classmates back a bit because I am making everything easier on her. I think we're done. We may still do TDAA here and there. I'm not sure.


----------



## CptJack

Levels actually confuse me too - mostly because my own classes levels don't make sense.

It's Foundations, Beginner, Intermediate, and Other Stuff. But the Other Stuff really only requires Beginner have been successfully completed, and the Intermediate is mostly for dogs already competing successfully - and varies depending on the group. You can stay in the Intermediate class for ETERNITY and the 'curriculum' changes. 

I'm sorry about Summer, but it sounds like the right decision. At least with Hank you can stay in the game and you can still have fun with Summer and Mia in ways that are fun for them.

I did some tunnel work with Molly today. Holy crap. Working with a dog who will work for a toy makes it so much easier to teach this stuff. I mean speed and enthusiasm are there and she's totally into it and getting it but for me the fun of working a dog when I can fling a toy at the end of the tunnel instead of baiting a target or getting there with food? Night and day.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah our class was 'the been competing about a year, training 2 or so years, still all working on weaves' class. My monday class was 'Still working on a lot but started competing this year'. The class before us on wednesdays is the 'been competing a couple years' class. 

I'm going to go crazy. Got rained out today and out of town next week. No agility for a couple weeks.

I may drop Summer in the TDAA trial first week of December for a day. Or I may just go watch. 

I hate that dogs age so fast.  I really thought Summer had a good chance of being 13/14 and still running like some dogs I see. She's working on 11 years though and I think I'm denial about that.


----------



## trainingjunkie

sassafras said:


> No, I forgot my GoPro.  I will try to remember to grab it next time, no class next week but the week after.
> 
> We're doing Cloud Nine, this is their New Hope location which is HUGE. We went through their foundations series over the course of the spring/summer/fall at the smaller location and I really liked how they went through it really slowly and deliberately.


I just attended a seminar there a couple of weeks ago. What a great place! I am so jealous. Winter is going to kill me. I am doing "agility" in my basement. The depression may be fatal.


----------



## sassafras

The way my training club does it, there are 4 "levels" and Foundations is considered "Level 1" but there are like 5 or 6 specific 6-week classes that fall under that umbrella that you take in order. We started in April or May of this year. So the first one is just learning to shape behaviors, introducing to very modified equipment like just a plank on the floor, teaching perching, standing on an easy wobble board, walking through jumps with no bar, really basic stuff plus teaching the handlers the basics of turns, send-outs, and crosses. And then each foundations unit introduces specific equipment and builds on the handler stuff. So there was a whole unit on contacts where we built up from plank to low dog walk to full dog walk and A-frame and learned about running contact vs 2o2o. 2 units on jumps and weaves, and so on, the whole time also practicing crosses etc for handlers. Really nice and slow and deliberate.

Now we just started level 2, which is drills and short sequences. So like last night we did these short jumping sequences. Level 3 adds some difficulty and length to the sequences and level 4 is full courses. 



trainingjunkie said:


> I just attended a seminar there a couple of weeks ago. What a great place! I am so jealous. Winter is going to kill me. I am doing "agility" in my basement. The depression may be fatal.


Right? My house is so tiny I can barely practice anything.  They sometimes have open ring time on the weekends but it's not assured every weekend.


----------



## dogsule

sassafras said:


> The way my training club does it, there are 4 "levels" and Foundations is considered "Level 1" but there are like 5 or 6 specific 6-week classes that fall under that umbrella that you take in order. We started in April or May of this year. So the first one is just learning to shape behaviors, introducing to very modified equipment like just a plank on the floor, teaching perching, standing on an easy wobble board, walking through jumps with no bar, really basic stuff plus teaching the handlers the basics of turns, send-outs, and crosses. And then each foundations unit introduces specific equipment and builds on the handler stuff. So there was a whole unit on contacts where we built up from plank to low dog walk to full dog walk and A-frame and learned about running contact vs 2o2o. 2 units on jumps and weaves, and so on, the whole time also practicing crosses etc for handlers. Really nice and slow and deliberate.
> 
> Now we just started level 2, which is drills and short sequences. So like last night we did these short jumping sequences. Level 3 adds some difficulty and length to the sequences and level 4 is full courses.





That sounds like a great way to learn things. Wish ours did that. We had no foundation training at all. I think Belle is doing well though, I think it is me that needs to learn more. Belle still is slow on the teeter, doesn't like to make it bang but everything else she does wonderful at. I started last spring in beginning and then went to the more advanced in Sept. We run full courses of much more advanced runs than would come up in a novice trial. My problem is I need to run the course with Belle first before I can figure it out. We walk it first alone of course but my first run with Belle is never the greatest cause I have to remember where to go. Even with the numbered cones I find it kind of hard to get everything right the first time which is why I am not so sure I would be good at a trial. I actually don't know what an AKC novice trial would consist of but the others there say if I can run these the novice trial will be a breeze. The closest trials are run about 2 hours from here and I haven't gone to watch any yet.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

OMG this monday is our first intermediate class and I am so excited and nervous at the same time! I hope to get some pics with my phone, since I have been having pics taken with the digital camera and havent had a chance to upload them.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> It is still so weird hearing class levels for me. There's only 2 classes that have levels at the place I go- Pre-Agility/Puppy Agility and then the Master's level class. That one is invite only and for people who are competing at the master's level. Everything else is just.... agility class grouped so you're with dogs at similar levels


We don't really even have class names. I signed up saying "this is where we are" and they just stuck us in a class with other people in a similar position. They are just called beginner level classes, and more advanced classes. They do have more specific named classes such as jumps, weaves, and tricks, but those aren't even offered that often. 

Sorry about Summer. I'm sure it has to be hard retiring a dog.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

thats what the place calls it, beginners novice, intermediate, advanced. Then advanced beginners, intermediate, and like ... veterans or something like that. We're going to be doing like, eighteen obstacles at a time (with one of us in the ring at a time). I am not as worried about her doing them as I am about remembering the pattern and not ****ing up LOL


----------



## CptJack

I absolutely can NOT believe how much easier it is to train this foundation stuff with a dog who is toy motivated.

It seems obvious, I guess, but I was so used to working with food with Kylie that it was just... the way things worked and normal and fine and good.

But HOLY CRAP watching Molly drive through some things to get to a toy is just wild. Not that Kylie's not awesome or her toy drive hasn't come along or I'm doing anything too complicated with Molly, but. 

Whoa.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Lol, Josefina will do things just for a chance to tug her leash! Of anything as long as it's play or can substitute as a "toy".


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Can't wait to see Squash!!!!!! I'm so glad you are both having a blast <3

I'm sorry about Summer, Laurelin  I wouldn't count her out of trials, yet. Maybe just see how she's feeling on the day and try her? She seems to like it a lot 



kadylady said:


> My instructor had me run her super fast BC through a couple short sequences last night after our class!! OMG!! It was exhilarating! And a little scary to have something coming at me that fast lol But it made me move faster and stay out of his way, which was what I think she wanted me to see and feel. It was really fun though. And was an awesome feeling for her to be comfortable enough to let me do that with him. And wowee what a tugger he is! Not used to that either but it was definitely fun.


I have been practicing on and off with a friend's BC (well sometimes I run a couple of them, but one in particular I'm focusing on) and it's SO cool. Very different than my guys. Not in a good or bay way - just different. Hoping to trial with her come spring. We've done a couple of Open/Excellent courses together, but I definitely need to do some more high level things to get used to her.


----------



## LoMD13

I'm really sorry about Summer. I really hope you can still do some TDAA with her and she bounces back. 

Lola works for toys or treats, depending on the day. I don't really think one is better than the other, they both have their pros and cons. We had a nice week in class, what I'm really loving is how consistent we've been. she really hasn't blown me off in about a year, even when we have off runs, she's still driving and speedy and happy. Can't Wait for TDAA! It'll be our first time at a different place.


----------



## CptJack

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Lol, Josefina will do things just for a chance to tug her leash! Of anything as long as it's play or can substitute as a "toy".


Kylie plays and will play with her leash, but mostly wants to play with me. It realllly isn't the same as being able to have a dog come out of a tunnel going 900 miles an hour after their ball/frisbee/easily thrown tug. Doesn't get the same kind of speed and intensity, even if I'm throwing food, that I get with her blasting out of there going for her toy. 

Then again, Kylie's Kylie and Molly's Molly and Josefina is Josefina. For Molly, thrown toy = BEST. Performance. EVER. 

Kylie admittedly isn't a high intensity dog with agility or really most things. Smart, thoughtful, clever, conniving, stubborn, creative and trouble, but balls to the wall excited about my games not so much. Has fun. Isn't pokey. Doesn't need cheer leading much anymore. But just not... explosive.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our second drop-in Agility today. I think Remmy is really happy to be back doing Agility after being off all this year because of my leg circulation problems. I still can't really run, (they fixed one leg but have to go back in the New Year to get the other one done) but as he is so good at sending out even at a distance I can manage to give him lots to do. We have two more drop-in classes before Christmas, then will probably be off for a few months as the weather will be too cold to practice in the unheated arena. I am still doing some Agility with Kris but as I don't want to slow her down, I just concentrate on the different obstacles and have not really tried to run any sort of course with her yet, probably next year. In the meantime she gets Obedience training three times a week which keeps her learning. She is just two Christmas Eve so lots of time for her.


----------



## Sibe

I'm wondering if I should be done trialing Denali. I never expected to compete at all. I then thought Novice titles would be an amazing accomplishment. I got too confident and started dreaming of a MACH some day. Then it took 2+ years to get her Open JWW title. The main problem is stress. She's a different dog at trials, especially with a male judge she freaks out. Head down, sniffing, plucking grass, blowing contacts, won't weave. I've been thinking a lot since the husky National and I don't think it's fair to her. She LOVES class, she's amazing and has a great time but she falls apart at trials and I don't think it's fair to her to keep putting her in situations that I know she doesn't enjoy and can't handle. We've come so much farther competitively than I ever dreamed initially and I'm honestly content with her Open titles. Exc and MACH would of course be awesome, but this is so much deeper than wanting ribbons and titles. I want what is best for her, and I've been thinking and feeling that trials aren't good for her. After the National at the end of October she started refusing weaves again in class for a couple weeks and she had been doing them perfectly for a solid month before the trial. She apparently ends up with a lot of residual stress about the weaves. I don't think I can keep asking her to trial.


----------



## sassafras

Squash is not super toy motivated, but he does consider a little rough housing to be a reward, especially when he is amped up.


----------



## Laurelin

Training Hank is very very different from the paps. I'm not sure how much is the fact that I'm a much more experienced and better trainer, how much is just HIM, his breed/mix, his drive, and the fact he's young with boundless energy and desire.

Like today for example with his morning breakfast he learned: push, we did a push to a jump, to a tunnel to a push to a tunnel a few times (for a toy), then inside we reviewed going through the weave uprights, we did spin and dance. Sit vs down differentiation. Paw vs nose differentiation. He learned leave it for the first time. He worked on hitting a target and then bowing on the target. This was his first day for bow too. Generally in a sitting we can teach him 3 or so new tricks. Which is crazy to me! And he GETS them too. He has Summer and Mia's behaviors but a lot more solid than they do already. I've had him 2 months!

I feel like I'm going to run out of things to teach him at this rate.

Now the flip side is that doing things like teaching a push can be hard because Hank thinks he gets the game already and he'll just blow through the tunnel and assume that jump comes next. I think he's going to be one of those dogs that if he runs clean it'll be great but he will probably be off course half the time. lol He wants to do all the things. 

Also with the papillons I didn't have to worry about exiting a training session with new bite marks on me.

With Hank I mix food and toy pretty 50/50.


----------



## CptJack

I use food to teach most new behaviours with Molly because she's a little less nutty and a little slower and more thoughtful with food. Toys make her MOVE. They are her ultimate high value reward thoug, particularly the kong frisbee.

Don't get me wrong, I don't find Kylie suddenly inferior or lacking, but I DO find It easier to train some of this with a dog motivates enough to really dive after a toy. I'm slow. Her willingness to haul butt and move for toys saves me steps. Kylies a lot more precise.

And, yeah, she knows more than Kylie already. Kylie learns fast. Molly learns creepy fast and has fewer weird issues about stuff like putting her mouth on things.

They're both awesome and awesome agility dogs. They're just really different and the different is a lot of fun for me.

Not sorry that neither is likely to bite me though. Molly might try to tug my sleeves but that's as far as it goes. I got all my biting quota for the next decade with thud. I hope.


----------



## Kyllobernese

It is funny that Laurelin mentions "bow on the target" as that is how I taught Kris on the contacts. She loves to bow and will do it and hold it steady for as long as I want so I though I would incorporate it into hitting the contacts. It works almost the same as the 2o2o and is just as fast. I use "touch" for Lucy so have to remember to use "bow" when I am doing contacts with Kris.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh man I haven';t even thought about contacts with Hank! He is definitely going to need stopped contacts. 

Summer's trainer asked me how Hank was doing in his class (with another trainer). She said the trainer said Hank is 'fun'. I think that's a good word for it


----------



## dogsule

OwnedbyACDs said:


> thats what the place calls it, beginners novice, intermediate, advanced. Then advanced beginners, intermediate, and like ... veterans or something like that. We're going to be doing like, eighteen obstacles at a time (with one of us in the ring at a time). I am not as worried about her doing them as I am about remembering the pattern and not ****ing up LOL



Ours just has beginners and advanced. I did like April through Aug in beginning and started in Advanced in Sept (we had a six or so week break in there too). We do usually 14 obstacles with lots of turns and twists and I have a hard time remembering everything even with numbered cones cause Belle goes so fast I need to know where to send her. It is hard but fun.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Sibe said:


> I'm wondering if I should be done trialing Denali. I never expected to compete at all. I then thought Novice titles would be an amazing accomplishment. I got too confident and started dreaming of a MACH some day. Then it took 2+ years to get her Open JWW title. The main problem is stress. She's a different dog at trials, especially with a male judge she freaks out. Head down, sniffing, plucking grass, blowing contacts, won't weave. I've been thinking a lot since the husky National and I don't think it's fair to her. She LOVES class, she's amazing and has a great time but she falls apart at trials and I don't think it's fair to her to keep putting her in situations that I know she doesn't enjoy and can't handle. We've come so much farther competitively than I ever dreamed initially and I'm honestly content with her Open titles. Exc and MACH would of course be awesome, but this is so much deeper than wanting ribbons and titles. I want what is best for her, and I've been thinking and feeling that trials aren't good for her. After the National at the end of October she started refusing weaves again in class for a couple weeks and she had been doing them perfectly for a solid month before the trial. She apparently ends up with a lot of residual stress about the weaves. I don't think I can keep asking her to trial.


That's a tough call... When I noticed Kimma was super stressed, we stopped trialing completely for a few months and only did class. We reworked our start line routine (I run with her) and it has helped immensely. We also got in to the habit of just running no matter what (even if she takes a wrong course, or refuses something) and it has also helped. I've noticed even with Jari, who does not get anywhere near as stressed as Kimma does, that it helps to just go and if we mess up, whatever. Fix it the next time we run or remember and set up the same thing in practice to work on. And even then, we just go and I analyze my handling on the fly if I mess them up. For my dogs, the more I stop, the more they disconnect. YRMV obviously, but I think if I hadn't changed the way I approach things and take that break, Kimma and I wouldn't have gotten as far as we have. And weaves were the beginning of the stress for her - I started fixing them in trials and it honestly ruined the trial environment for probably the first year we competed.


----------



## MrsBoats

Had a great, great time at the Thanksgiving Cluster up in Springfield, MA!! Ocean had a wonderful trial...I was thrilled with all of his Q and NQ runs. There was so much good in all. O earned his Novice FAST Preferred title (NFP), a Q in Novice Standard Preferred, and a Q in Open FAST Preferred. LOL That more or less wraps up O's 2014 agility season. Now he gets to go and play in more Rally and we'll start getting more serious about obedience with him too. 

Time 2 Beat (You get to see O catch some crazy air taking the triple sideways.) - 






Novice STD Q - Course time was 77 seconds. We ran it in 36.8...we could have run it all over again and still have 3.5 seconds left over! 






Novice JWW - 






Open FAST Q (Don't know what the judge was thinking standing in the shortest path between the 9 pt. a-frame and the 10 pt. tunnel.)






Novice Standard - 






I don't have videos from any of our runs on Friday because my agility BFF had to work. 

I love this little black and tan rocket dog...he is going to grow up into a fantastic agility guy.


----------



## CptJack

I set up all the equipment I have in the yard to practice a little bit today. 

Switching from Kylie to Molly is such a mind trip. Kylie's beautiful and good and precise when she into it (which is a lot more after a break than it was before). She's GOOD at the game and goes where I want her and is really really, I dunno, clean.

Then I go play with Molly on tunnels and jump verticals and it's less "GO" and more "WHOA"

LOL. Oh god. this dog's either going to be incredible or a disaster. There will be no in between with her. Ever.

Kylie needs to be trialing, frankly. Still scared of some stuff, still not going to do it before spring, but she's so ready.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Go O!!!!! Dude is awesome!!!! You're an awesome trainer, MrsBoats - you should be very proud 

I can't wait to see how Molly develops, CptJack! And get that Kylie girl in a trial - it will be fun!!!!

Looks like Kimma and I get to go to Invitationals again next year, too! Just checked randomly and we're there hahaha. Florida every year for forever!

And I've decided that Jari will jump 16" no matter what he measures. He might just make it in AKC, but definitely not in UKI since he would have to measure below 17.5" and he's like on the cusp of 18". Glad I've arrived at that decision


----------



## kadylady

Awesome weekend MrsBoats and O!!! You guys look fantastic!

Congrats Finkie_Mom and Kimma on Invitationals! 

Our big Thanksgiving weekend show starts tonight with prep. Loading equipment tonight, unloading and setup tomorrow night, then showing and working all day Fri, Sat, Sun. Our first time on dirt. I'm super excited! Going to our building early tonight to get in a little bit of weave practice before we load up all the equipment.


----------



## Laurelin

I don't get FAST. I've heard it's similar to USDAA gamblers? Someone explain it to me.


----------



## sassafras

Congratulations, MrsBoats and Ocean!


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> I don't get FAST. I've heard it's similar to USDAA gamblers? Someone explain it to me.


I don't know USDAA gamblers, but basically the short explanation is FAST is run around and get points and at some point complete the send bonus, which is 2-3 obstacles where you have to stay behind the line 5-20 feet away depending on what level you are in. 

Longer version... 15 pointed obstacles, 6 of which are single bar jumps valued at 1 point each. The remaining obstacles are valued at 2-10 points. Send bonus = 20 points, must get the send bonus to qualify. So there are 80 points available to earn, obstacles only taken once for points. The level that you are in determines how many points you need to qualify. 30-40 seconds depending on jump height and regular vs preferred, for each second over time you lose one point. I'm pretty sure you can attempt the send bonus at any time, as long as it's before the SCT buzzer, after the buzzer you can no longer collect points.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, I've only played it a few times. It's great for practice though. Same with Time to Beat. I've played T2B a few times now and don't even know what it takes for a Q but it's a great practice class for us.


----------



## Sibe

Finkie_Mom said:


> That's a tough call... When I noticed Kimma was super stressed, we stopped trialing completely for a few months and only did class. We reworked our start line routine (I run with her) and it has helped immensely. We also got in to the habit of just running no matter what (even if she takes a wrong course, or refuses something) and it has also helped. I've noticed even with Jari, who does not get anywhere near as stressed as Kimma does, that it helps to just go and if we mess up, whatever. Fix it the next time we run or remember and set up the same thing in practice to work on. And even then, we just go and I analyze my handling on the fly if I mess them up. For my dogs, the more I stop, the more they disconnect. YRMV obviously, but I think if I hadn't changed the way I approach things and take that break, Kimma and I wouldn't have gotten as far as we have. And weaves were the beginning of the stress for her - I started fixing them in trials and it honestly ruined the trial environment for probably the first year we competed.


 Pushing through helps her too. We're moving back to Colorado in the Spring (April-ish) and I think I'll just do classes until then, and classes there for several months while we get settled in, attend a few trials where we don't run and see how she is being there. It's different, being outside on grass all the time at very busy locations and being indoors on dirt at horse arenas and such in Colorado.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

MrsBoats said:


> Had a great, great time at the Thanksgiving Cluster up in Springfield, MA!! Ocean had a wonderful trial...I was thrilled with all of his Q and NQ runs. There was so much good in all. O earned his Novice FAST Preferred title (NFP), a Q in Novice Standard Preferred, and a Q in Open FAST Preferred. LOL That more or less wraps up O's 2014 agility season. Now he gets to go and play in more Rally and we'll start getting more serious about obedience with him too.
> 
> Time 2 Beat (You get to see O catch some crazy air taking the triple sideways.) -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novice STD Q - Course time was 77 seconds. We ran it in 36.8...we could have run it all over again and still have 3.5 seconds left over!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novice JWW -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open FAST Q (Don't know what the judge was thinking standing in the shortest path between the 9 pt. a-frame and the 10 pt. tunnel.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novice Standard -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have videos from any of our runs on Friday because my agility BFF had to work.
> 
> I love this little black and tan rocket dog...he is going to grow up into a fantastic agility guy.


Holy crap! I wish Josefina would do weaves like that! but she is like super methodical and careful about every obstacle ... except the dog walk she is like a speed demon on the talk walk!


----------



## LoMD13

Yeah Lola and I did a similar thing- when she was stressy and sloooow at trials, we took a 10 month hiatus and just worked on making class SO much fun and also making the taking off of a collar super exciting. And it seemed to help a ton, she did fantastic at her last trial, faster and better than ever before. 

Congratulations MrsBoats and O!!! You two are such an amazing team.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Starting at a new facility in January. I'm terrified but I'm also ridiculously bored without my agility for the next month.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Boo, I am going to miss this week and maybe next week because me and dog are out of town, I know I should be happy about seeing and visiting OH, but still ... boo


----------



## kadylady

Well, we had an *interesting* weekend...

First time on dirt in a horse arena, I was expecting her mind to be blown. I was not expecting her to refuse to weave. Struggle yes. Flat out just not to do it, not so much. The other stuff, got better and better as we went. The weaves got worse. First class Friday she couldn't pick her nose up off the ground. By the 3rd run at the end of the day we completed a course (with weaves actually). Saturday her nose stayed off the ground, so yay! Had an almost Open JWW Q, no weaves, but a fabulous opening. And minus my hideously late front cross right in her face.

Sat Open JWW - very very proud of this first half of this run, loving her speed.





And then we had an absolutely awful Standard attempt where she fell off the top of the A frame and came off the course limping. It was a pretty ugly fall. I didn't realize how bad it was until I watched it on video. Thankfully she's not badly hurt, she walked out of the limp pretty quick, the chiropractor (who I am friends with) checked her out immediately and nothing serious, just probably soft tissue and soreness. The judge let me put her back on the AF at the end of the class and she had no hesitation whatsoever *huge sigh of relief*. Pulled her from everything Sunday because she was a little stiff and sore. She's looking much better today, have an appointment with our vet on Wednesday to get her checked out and get some chiro/acupuncture/massage. It was pretty scary. And I was pretty shook up about it. Thankfully it happened at our club trial so we were close to home and surrounded by friends and my trainer who knew exactly what to do. 

For anyone that wants to view the fall...
(start at 37 secs to skip our 3 failed weave pole attempts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ybFrhPbxY

I watched it over and over and over again Saturday night to try and figure out what the heck went wrong. She actually had a better angle to it than most dogs because she went so wide out of the chute and around the wing jump. So she had a very straight path up the frame, she just ended up way to the left and I don't know why, because I was slightly behind her? That's not uncommon for me to be slightly behind her though. She was much more full of herself in this run than previous ones. I don't know. I could analyze til the cows come home. Hopefully this can be our one and done. It was more than enough for me.

Nothing planned for the next month or two (other than Rally). So we will work on seriously proofing our weaves in that time frame. She's rocking in training. I think it's still a distraction issue in trials.


----------



## MrsBoats

I have no idea why she stumbled off the a-frame like that. I watched it a bunch of times and there wasn't anything in your body cues that pulled laterally away from the a-frame. I don't think you being behind her caused it either...I'm rarely beating my dogs to an a-frame on course. Most of the time I RC a-frames instead of FC'ing them because I'm not in front. 

Two things I think could have caused that: 1) was she didn't have her head in the game...and just ran up it veering to the left and ran out of a-frame. 2) sometimes when I stop showing forward motion when the guys are on an a-frame because it was an off course the boys will turn around on it and come back down the side they went up. It almost looked like she was starting to do that and ran out of space. Maybe because you were behind and hesitated slightly, she read that as come back down. 

Either way...that was an awful spill. I'm glad she's okay.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

kadylady said:


> Well, we had an *interesting* weekend...
> 
> First time on dirt in a horse arena, I was expecting her mind to be blown. I was not expecting her to refuse to weave. Struggle yes. Flat out just not to do it, not so much. The other stuff, got better and better as we went. The weaves got worse. First class Friday she couldn't pick her nose up off the ground. By the 3rd run at the end of the day we completed a course (with weaves actually). Saturday her nose stayed off the ground, so yay! Had an almost Open JWW Q, no weaves, but a fabulous opening. And minus my hideously late front cross right in her face.
> 
> Sat Open JWW - very very proud of this first half of this run, loving her speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then we had an absolutely awful Standard attempt where she fell off the top of the A frame and came off the course limping. It was a pretty ugly fall. I didn't realize how bad it was until I watched it on video. Thankfully she's not badly hurt, she walked out of the limp pretty quick, the chiropractor (who I am friends with) checked her out immediately and nothing serious, just probably soft tissue and soreness. The judge let me put her back on the AF at the end of the class and she had no hesitation whatsoever *huge sigh of relief*. Pulled her from everything Sunday because she was a little stiff and sore. She's looking much better today, have an appointment with our vet on Wednesday to get her checked out and get some chiro/acupuncture/massage. It was pretty scary. And I was pretty shook up about it. Thankfully it happened at our club trial so we were close to home and surrounded by friends and my trainer who knew exactly what to do.
> 
> For anyone that wants to view the fall...
> (start at 37 secs to skip our 3 failed weave pole attempts)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ybFrhPbxY
> 
> I watched it over and over and over again Saturday night to try and figure out what the heck went wrong. She actually had a better angle to it than most dogs because she went so wide out of the chute and around the wing jump. So she had a very straight path up the frame, she just ended up way to the left and I don't know why, because I was slightly behind her? That's not uncommon for me to be slightly behind her though. She was much more full of herself in this run than previous ones. I don't know. I could analyze til the cows come home. Hopefully this can be our one and done. It was more than enough for me.
> 
> Nothing planned for the next month or two (other than Rally). So we will work on seriously proofing our weaves in that time frame. She's rocking in training. I think it's still a distraction issue in trials.


OMG glad she is ok! Josefina fell off the dog walk in this manner her first time on it but I was there to catch her LOL so she ddidnt hit the ground. Now that Josefina is getting more acclimated with the obstacles, she sometimes tries to cop out, like she did with an A frame, she knew what I was asking her, but she was like "Nope! going around!" I bit back my frustration and just made her rinse and repeat until she did it. she is dong great on everything else though! even the tunnels and the chute, and the teeter. her fave thing is the dog walk, though, I dont know why, since its the only thiing she fell off, you'd think she'd be scared of it but nope! not in the least.


----------



## dogsule

Well we had class tonight (had to cancel twice this session due to weather so far), cold tonight but no snowy roads anyway. My daughter came along to film for me. First time the course has ever had no jumps, usually it is more jumps than anything. Usually we have around 14 obstacles, this time only 9. Belle is still dealing with learning the teeter, she runs to the middle and pretty much stops and I have to treat her to get her to go further. She kept wanting to go to the dog walk after getting off the A frame so she kind of got behind me in this run. I have more to learn than Belle it seems and usually it takes me one run with her before I can do it right, sometimes more than once. LOL!

https://flic.kr/p/pYTCbA


Tried uploading to photobucket but it would get to 90% and then fail for some reason.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Well, we had an *interesting* weekend...
> 
> 
> For anyone that wants to view the fall...
> (start at 37 secs to skip our 3 failed weave pole attempts)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ybFrhPbxY
> 
> I watched it over and over and over again Saturday night to try and figure out what the heck went wrong. She actually had a better angle to it than most dogs because she went so wide out of the chute and around the wing jump. So she had a very straight path up the frame, she just ended up way to the left and I don't know why, because I was slightly behind her? That's not uncommon for me to be slightly behind her though. She was much more full of herself in this run than previous ones. I don't know. I could analyze til the cows come home. Hopefully this can be our one and done. It was more than enough for me.
> 
> Nothing planned for the next month or two (other than Rally). So we will work on seriously proofing our weaves in that time frame. She's rocking in training. I think it's still a distraction issue in trials.



Yikes, that is scary. Glad she is ok!


----------



## kadylady

MrsBoats said:


> Two things I think could have caused that: 1) was she didn't have her head in the game...and just ran up it veering to the left and ran out of a-frame. 2) sometimes when I stop showing forward motion when the guys are on an a-frame because it was an off course the boys will turn around on it and come back down the side they went up. It almost looked like she was starting to do that and ran out of space. Maybe because you were behind and hesitated slightly, she read that as come back down.
> 
> Either way...that was an awful spill. I'm glad she's okay.


Thanks for watching it and for the feedback MrsBoats. I always have to analyze what went right/wrong in my runs and this was really bothering me until I watched it several times. Her head was definitely not in the game on that run. She was pretty wild and I think that was a big factor. And yes I agree, it does look like she was thinking about turning, which she has also done before when she gets a little wild. Which is why I almost always avoid rear crossing the AF all together. Thankfully the AF is her favorite obstacle so I don't think this will effect her too much mentally, I will probably be more spooked than her! I do think we will be doing more practice with teaching her to drive all the way to the other end regardless of where I am. We've worked on her wanting to pause and look around at the top but I think now we need to do some more proofing of you complete the obstacle regardless of where I am.


----------



## MrsBoats

You may want to train a rear cross at the a-frame just because someday, you might need it on a course where a front cross just isn't going to happen. I rarely use front crosses in trials because mostly, I cannot get in front of the boys since they are usually about 8' in ahead of me. But, I do practice them just in case I can send Lars/O someplace and get myself in position for one. Every once in a while it happens where I see I have plenty of time to pull one off. 

In theory, a dog should be taught to drive to the bottom of an a-frame regardless of what you're doing. I am really working on that with O...and at home, if he takes an off course a-frame. I want him to complete it and drive to the bottom because in the end....it's safer. 

In this video from the cluster...you can see me rear the a-frame. There is no question in O's mind what his job is there...drive to the bottom no matter what Mom is doing behind me. 






I do think Zoey was having brain farts on course...she forgot what her job was. Maybe going back to reinforcing that driving to the bottom of the a-frame is what the job is. Do you have running or 2o2o criteria at the bottom of the a-frame?


----------



## kadylady

Yes, I will definitely train for being able to rear cross the A frame. I've already been in situations where that is what I would rather do but don't for this exact reason, she's not driving enough to the end and I still have to really stress her contact criteria (2o2o) in trials. We've been proofing it in training with both speed and distance and she's getting it there. It's just getting it to carry over to trials, ya know, that hard part! lol My trainer has said I need to increase my proofing in practice and thankfully I should be able to pick back up privates with her for the next month or two. Driving to the end of the AF will be at the top of our agenda, I definitely don't want her monkeying around up there. 

I need to spend a little more time on our rears in general I think. Also rearing on the flat. I've seen it a lot lately and when the dog understands it, it works really nice. I've been doing a lot more fronts lately because I can stay connected with her better that way, but once her speed is consistent there will be more of a need for rears in our future. For the most part she's pretty good with them. I have to work on my timing because if I put too much pressure on her line she will abort, she's generally pretty sensitive to my pressure on her line.

Beautiful drive through that AF with O. Are you doing a 2o2o with him?


----------



## trainingjunkie

FWIW, you can teach all of the positions for stopped contacts with just a plank flat on the ground. You teach the dog to drive to 2o2o with you beside, in front, in motion, still... Under distraction... All of it. On just a plank flat on the ground. Do all of the hard work that way, and then the transfer to the actual contacts is super simple. It's actually easier for them to find and feel 2o2o on contacts than on the flat board, so they are stellar when you transition them.

Saves a ton of wear and tear on your dog and you can do it in your basement over the winter. Cool stuff. I have been thrilled with the results.


----------



## Laurelin

Well I sent in Summer's resignation.  I think we will trial TDAA on Sunday but no more classes for her.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> Well I sent in Summer's resignation.  I think we will trial TDAA on Sunday but no more classes for her.


Aww shoot, Bummer


----------



## elrohwen

Some of you might remember that I had jumping issues with Watson the last time we were in an agility class. Any time the jumps went over 12" he would slow down, psyche himself out, and run out on the jump. We spent a lot of time this summer working on grids (using Susan Salo's program) and he was up to 16" jumps in grids and loving it, but I haven't asked him to do single jumps at that height. Last night's rally course had a jump and he was happy at 8" and 12" so we put it up to 16" to try him out. He sailed over it and looked so happy and confident. Yay! I'm certainly not going to push it (and we're not even in an agility class right now) but I hope this is a sign of more confident jumping to come.


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie said:


> FWIW, you can teach all of the positions for stopped contacts with just a plank flat on the ground. You teach the dog to drive to 2o2o with you beside, in front, in motion, still... Under distraction... All of it. On just a plank flat on the ground. Do all of the hard work that way, and then the transfer to the actual contacts is super simple. It's actually easier for them to find and feel 2o2o on contacts than on the flat board, so they are stellar when you transition them.
> 
> Saves a ton of wear and tear on your dog and you can do it in your basement over the winter. Cool stuff. I have been thrilled with the results.


Plank flat to the ground? Not raised at all? I can handle that! Does width matter? Thank you for the suggestion. This will be perfect for our winter indoor activity. Last winter was 6 weave poles. And yes, I need to be mindful of wear and tear on her with drilling stuff like that. The chiro has told me that we need to be mindful of her front end because she is pretty upright in her shoulders.

We had our vet visit last night and she was much sorer than she was letting on. She was out and painful in her SI (pelvis area), a little painful when she adjusted her neck, and then very painful as she was massaging her right rear thigh, she actually cried when she first touched that spot. Vet said definitely soft tissue damage in her right thigh (the one that tried to hang onto the AF) and she also wants to watch her SI very closely, said if it doesn't improve pretty quick she may want to do x-rays to rule out a fracture. Fracture highly unlikely but just to be safe, more likely sprained the joint. But she wants her on rest for at least a week then see her again. She said it looks though that we got away with no serious, long term injuries so very thankful for that.

Our last night of class is tonight and since I obviously can't participate with Zoey my instructor is letting me use her BC! That cheered me up, was pretty down last night after realizing how sore Zoey actually was.

Laurelin, sorry you are having to retire Summer 

Elrohwen, yay for Watson! Glad he is getting more confident with jumping!


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Well I sent in Summer's resignation.  I think we will trial TDAA on Sunday but no more classes for her.


Oh no! Hugs!

Is there something else fun you can keep doing with her? Maybe now is the time to get into rally or something?


----------



## Laurelin

Well Summer had another major seizure today so I'm just not sure what the future holds for her/us. It sucks so bad, she's supposed to make it to 16... I'm really beginning to suspect a tumor of some kind.


----------



## elrohwen

Oh no. I am so so sorry. Summer is one of my favorite dogs on the forums. Huge hugs. I hope it's something that can be controlled with meds.


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> Well Summer had another major seizure today so I'm just not sure what the future holds for her/us. It sucks so bad, she's supposed to make it to 16... I'm really beginning to suspect a tumor of some kind.


 I'm so sorry to hear, that is devastating.  Are you planning to do an MRI or any other testing yet?


----------



## Laurelin

We've done a lot of testing (bloodworkups, x-rays, an ultrasound) but not an MRI yet.  I've thought about it but am not sure just yet. The most likely thing considering her age is a tumor. Usually epilepsy doesn't just pop up in a senior dog.

If it is a tumor, I wouldn't elect to do anything other than control symptoms for as long as possible and let her go when her quality of life is in question. I've been through enough brain tumors in humans to know they are tricky things and prognosis isn't great. Especially with dogs. The expense is a factor for me right now but mostly because it would be essentially just an answer or yes or no about it being a tumor. 

The vet and I talked aboutpossibly an MRI in the future when she was in back in november though. The hope was the anti-seizure meds would stop the seizures.

For brief history: First seizure back in July. 2 in July, 1 in september, 1 in november, 1 in December. We've been in the vet 4 times so far since July. She is currently almost a month on anti-seizure medication. Has been on a liver supplement since july.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> Well Summer had another major seizure today so I'm just not sure what the future holds for her/us. It sucks so bad, she's supposed to make it to 16... I'm really beginning to suspect a tumor of some kind.


My other dog, Jenna, passed away not that long ago. She was older and began randomly having seizures with no other symptoms or issues in bloodwork. The vets highly suspected a brain tumor. Because of her age, I opted to just do meds and keep her comfortable. She passed away after a couple of months. I hope that is not the case for Summer and I'm so sorry that you are going through this.


----------



## sassafras

Unless you'd opt for something like surgery or radiation if she had a tumor, the MRI wouldn't really change what you're doing. You'd be trying to control seizures no matter what, so it's hard to make a case for doing the MRI unless you really need the certainty definitively knowing. And there are lots of options for seizure medications, so try not to get discouraged by this breakthrough.


In other news... I love my big white dog. He did great tonight, we ran a couple of courses that were short by trial standards but longer than he is accustomed to and had a fair number of direction changes. Despite his clumsy handler, he really stuck with me.


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks so much guys for all the well wishes. She is just a great, sweet dog whom I just adore. She's been the best first agility dog ever. I couldn't ask for a better dog. I need to think a bit about tomorrow. My plan had been to enter her tomorrow as one last hurrah before officially retiring. Last night I said no way no how but today I am thinking maybe if she's doing ok tomorrow. Post seizure she's just normal so unless the seizure happened during a run tomorrow I'm not sure one last hurrah would be bad for her. But I'd bawl my eyes out if we did so maybe I should just take Hank and visit our friends. I dunno.

On a happy note, Hank is starting to get on the equipment slowly and he's a lot of fun! Today we had a great GREAT class where he completely rocked his ciks/caps around a jump wing (well we say left/right cause I can't remember cik and sap). We did crate games, which... I should work on more LOL. Introduced him to a low a-frame, wobble board, and a plank to start contact behaviors. Completely unafraid of anything! He launched himself off the wobble board at my friend/trainer's face. He was a jerk when we went to use him as the demo dog. He also got the 'idiot dog' zoomies as I like to call them while demoing. You know... the zoomines where they splay their legs out and bounce and look like morons? LOL He was so proud of himself when the trainer was praising him. We did a lot of playing games and he was tugging very well and chasing his toys. 

And then afterwards he and my friend in my class's golden sprinted all over a huge field and ended up covered in mud. Hank found the nasty water trough and laid in it despite it being 43F outside. 

He's a lot of fun.

He's also not gun shy which is good. I was wondering how he'd handle hunters but some guys were training pointers in one field and shooting really close to us after class and he was fine. Not even a blink.


----------



## Laurelin

Well I ran Summer today. She was just so excited to be there and so we decided to try it. 

She was amazing and full of beans! Omg. We did 4 runs but only Q'd in one. The first one I WISH I had on video. It was HILARIOUS. She had a ball and was just flying and happy and thrilled with herself. I think she took like 4 extra jumps. lol Said hi to the judge. Lots of good stuff.

She did Q in the distance games. Idk how many Q's that makes towards her TMAG. I've lost count. But she had fun and that's what I wanted to see. Everyone was very supportive knowing what she's been going through lately.

Played with Hank a lot today and he's awesome. It's kind of cool to have a dog that works his heart out for stupid things like... a plastic bag and a pinecone. 

He did some great stays in the ring after the trial while people were putting things up. I was really proud of how collected he was. Did some tunnels like a pro, tugged like crazy. Recalled well to his tug. He played with lots of dogs and did well. Particularly loves this Icelandic sheepdog who is around 1 1/2 years. They are perfectly matched in size and play style.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

We leave for Invitationals tomorrow!!!! I'm so excited - I never thought we'd get this far 

We had our last class before we leave this morning and she ran SO WELL. Fast and smooth and happy. Let's hope we can replicate that this weekend!


----------



## trainingjunkie

WOW!!! Good luck and best wishes!!! Have a blast! You are living my dream!


----------



## MrsBoats

Good luck in FL!! Safe travels too!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

trainingjunkie said:


> WOW!!! Good luck and best wishes!!! Have a blast! You are living my dream!


Thank you!! I'm living my own dream hahaha. I can't believe it!



MrsBoats said:


> Good luck in FL!! Safe travels too!


Thanks on both accounts! It will be me and Kimma in an RV with a friend and 4 of her BCs. Should be interesting!! But her dogs are all SO well behaved (she's going for the Obedience Classic) and Kimma is really good so there should be no issues. Just lots of dogs


----------



## elrohwen

Last night after Rally class we let the dogs run around a bit, and the instructor pulled out some agility equipment - just an A-frame, a tunnel, and a jump. I probably did everything wrong, but it was the most fun we've had with agility equipment in a long time.

Watson immediately zoomed off and ignored me while trying to get the other dogs to play. When he did come to me, I asked him for an A-frame (which he was nervous about and refused) and a tunnel (which he did, but then zoomed off again). I just let him do his thing and after a couple minutes he came to me and didn't leave again. He flew up the A-frame, through the tunnel, and over the 16" jump again and again with a huge smile on his face. This is a dog who is nervous about contact obstacles and always refused any jumps over 12". He was having a blast and it's the most engaged, connected, and confident I've ever seen him around agility equipment. 

I used to spend every agility class trying to keep him under complete control so he didn't run away, but every time I lost and he would eventually zoom off. It was clearly stress, and I think now that trying to control him and pressure him to do what I wanted him to do was just too much. I tried my best to make everything super easy and within his abilities, and he did what I asked in class because it's what I wanted, but he wasn't 100% comfortable with the equipment and it would build until the stress came out in zoomies. Once I removed the pressure and let him choose to participate, he had a blast and zero confidence issues.

We may never trial, and I've probably taught him terrible habits and he'll always zoom away from me during agility, but I'll take that if we can have moments like last night where we can be a joyful team.


----------



## Laurelin

Yay Watson! That made me smile to hear. Above all, agility should be FUN for both you and the dog. I think especially for dogs who aren't as naturally driven for doing the equipment that sometimes the best thing to do is to just ignore the bad stuff and just reward the heck out of the good and make the good stuff as fun as possible. Running off to play and/or sniffing is really really common and a lot of people naturally get more strict and the dog gets more pressured.

On a related note, all our restrained recalls are helping with Hank. We've moved outside where there's two classes going on in separate rings from each other. The other class is also relatively new but I think a session or two past where we are. Mostly mini aussies, which is neat but makes me jealous lol. Anyways none of the dogs so far are super fast but Hank bolted to the fence line. I called him and started running away and he flew back in and got the tug and re-engaged. I was very happy with him.

SO Hank is definitely a learning experience. We're still doing baby dog stuff- about a month into classes now. He is fun but once you show him something, he thinks he's got it. So naturally we have things like- introducing him to the tire jump and him seeing a tunnel a ways away and doing tire jump then zoom into the tunnel. Or we've done a lot of plank work and just started the bang game on the teeter and Hank did the game great but then decided 'Oh this is a plank, I must run down the end of it'. Yeah.... full teeter last week at full height. Not what I wanted. On the plus side, he's not afraid at all. But really dog. Slow it down some. He's fun. Off courses are going to happen a LOT with this guy though. My trainer has reminded me how often Summer had saved my poor handling. Hank is going to make me think a lot harder and work a lot harder to be in the right place. 

He is learning his pushes, outs, calling in (threadle work) well. But once you add in more than 1 jump stand at this point he is all about going as fast as possible through the jumps and handling be damned. Trying to work on slow down and think and getting him to listen to the fact that I am giving him specific cues about which direction and whether to wrap, etc. I think he'll get there. At this point I am very happy with how much he loves the game.

Gotta get this biting thing under control though. He keeps ripping my sleeves.

Also he is tugging very well in class, which I am happy with. He was a bit distracted the first couple weeks.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> Yay Watson! That made me smile to hear. Above all, agility should be FUN for both you and the dog. I think especially for dogs who aren't as naturally driven for doing the equipment that sometimes the best thing to do is to just ignore the bad stuff and just reward the heck out of the good and make the good stuff as fun as possible. Running off to play and/or sniffing is really really common and a lot of people naturally get more strict and the dog gets more pressured.
> 
> On a related note, all our restrained recalls are helping with Hank. We've moved outside where there's two classes going on in separate rings from each other. The other class is also relatively new but I think a session or two past where we are. Mostly mini aussies, which is neat but makes me jealous lol. Anyways none of the dogs so far are super fast but Hank bolted to the fence line. I called him and started running away and he flew back in and got the tug and re-engaged. I was very happy with him.
> 
> SO Hank is definitely a learning experience. We're still doing baby dog stuff- about a month into classes now. He is fun but once you show him something, he thinks he's got it. So naturally we have things like- introducing him to the tire jump and him seeing a tunnel a ways away and doing tire jump then zoom into the tunnel. Or we've done a lot of plank work and just started the bang game on the teeter and Hank did the game great but then decided 'Oh this is a plank, I must run down the end of it'. Yeah.... full teeter last week at full height. Not what I wanted. On the plus side, he's not afraid at all. But really dog. Slow it down some. He's fun. Off courses are going to happen a LOT with this guy though. My trainer has reminded me how often Summer had saved my poor handling. Hank is going to make me think a lot harder and work a lot harder to be in the right place.
> 
> He is learning his pushes, outs, calling in (threadle work) well. But once you add in more than 1 jump stand at this point he is all about going as fast as possible through the jumps and handling be damned. Trying to work on slow down and think and getting him to listen to the fact that I am giving him specific cues about which direction and whether to wrap, etc. I think he'll get there. At this point I am very happy with how much he loves the game.
> 
> Gotta get this biting thing under control though. He keeps ripping my sleeves.
> 
> Also he is tugging very well in class, which I am happy with. He was a bit distracted the first couple weeks.


Lol I am having the opposite problem, Josefina is too slow and careful ha ha.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Yay Watson! That made me smile to hear. Above all, agility should be FUN for both you and the dog. I think especially for dogs who aren't as naturally driven for doing the equipment that sometimes the best thing to do is to just ignore the bad stuff and just reward the heck out of the good and make the good stuff as fun as possible. Running off to play and/or sniffing is really really common and a lot of people naturally get more strict and the dog gets more pressured.


At first I really cared that he was running off and ignoring me, especially because the two shelties were following me like I was the Pied Piper. "Oh, you have meatballs in your pocket? We will do agility with you!" Why can't my dog do that? 

But then I was so surprised when he just decided that agility was cool and he was ready to do it, and then he was on fire. I put so much pressure on him because everybody says that you can't let them practice running off, but the more controlling I get the more pressure he feels. I thought making things easier was the solution ("he can't possibly be nervous about two 8 inch jumps and a tunnel!") but maybe just giving him the choice is the answer. I don't know. 

I found ring rentals for $20/hour at an obedience place nearby and I might try that. I can bring a couple jumps and just try some Control Unleashed stuff - letting him zoom around, and then building up to working when he's ready.

I really like the woman who runs our rally class. She's very laid back and very positive, and lets us figure things out. The Rally class ends half an hour before the drop in conformation class starts, and she's all for letting the dogs play, or pulling out some agility stuff. I think Watson needs to burn off some of his energy and interacting with lots of differnt dogs has been good for him, even though they usually look at him like he's crazy while he play bows and zooms all over. Female shelties are not the most rough and tumble bunch.




> Gotta get this biting thing under control though. He keeps ripping my sleeves.


Clearly the answer is sleeveless shirts, all winter long. You can add a vest if you get cold. Haha

So far Watson is not bitey in agility and almost never in obedience, which is surprising because he's a super bitey dog in general. Thank goodness he has a soft mouth though! He doesn't cut up my hands the way some dogs do, even though he nails me going for the tug all the time.


----------



## Laurelin

If I can get accuracy on him at this speed then... I'm pretty excited by it. But accuracy is going to be the tough half of the equation with this one. I do want to keep his speed though. Love his speed. I get the feeling he will either run amazingly or spectacularly NQ. Hahaha


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> If I can get accuracy on him at this speed then... I'm pretty excited by it. But accuracy is going to be the tough half of the equation with this one. I do want to keep his speed though. Love his speed. I get the feeling he will either run amazingly or spectacularly NQ. Hahaha


Those are the ones who are so much fun to watch! We had an Aussie in our last class who was like that and she was hilarious and amazing, though I did feel bad for her green owner trying to learn handling fast enough to keep up.


----------



## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> At first I really cared that he was running off and ignoring me, especially because the two shelties were following me like I was the Pied Piper. "Oh, you have meatballs in your pocket? We will do agility with you!" Why can't my dog do that?
> 
> But then I was so surprised when he just decided that agility was cool and he was ready to do it, and then he was on fire. I put so much pressure on him because everybody says that you can't let them practice running off, but the more controlling I get the more pressure he feels. I thought making things easier was the solution ("he can't possibly be nervous about two 8 inch jumps and a tunnel!") but maybe just giving him the choice is the answer. I don't know.
> 
> I found ring rentals for $20/hour at an obedience place nearby and I might try that. I can bring a couple jumps and just try some Control Unleashed stuff - letting him zoom around, and then building up to working when he's ready.
> 
> I really like the woman who runs our rally class. She's very laid back and very positive, and lets us figure things out. The Rally class ends half an hour before the drop in conformation class starts, and she's all for letting the dogs play, or pulling out some agility stuff. I think Watson needs to burn off some of his energy and interacting with lots of differnt dogs has been good for him, even though they usually look at him like he's crazy while he play bows and zooms all over. Female shelties are not the most rough and tumble bunch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly the answer is sleeveless shirts, all winter long. You can add a vest if you get cold. Haha
> 
> So far Watson is not bitey in agility and almost never in obedience, which is surprising because he's a super bitey dog in general. Thank goodness he has a soft mouth though! He doesn't cut up my hands the way some dogs do, even though he nails me going for the tug all the time.


Shelties in general aren't the most rough and tumble. lol

I think choice is a good way to go about it. It is sometimes HARD to do when they just blow you off though. For me, I worry less about not letting him run off but focus more on keeping him engaged and getting him re-engage faster if that makes sense. Hanks is very dog friendly and loves other dogs so they are a huge distraction for him. He is very focused overall for being so young but he has big issues especially when other dogs are running. I think it just takes time. 

I wonder if your instructor would be less strict if you guys had the other dogs crated? I don't mean to get into that debate again but if one of our dogs run off (and they all do) there's no danger because everyone else is in their crate. So there's no real 'urgency' in a situation which makes it much easier to set it up so the dog is making a choice to come back and the rest of the environment is pretty boring if they bolt. There's no other dogs to try to play with and the people all ignore them (well... supposed to).

The biting was much better with short sleeves. I think he thinks I have tugs built into my arms right now. He likes to circle in and then launch for my arms. It is quite a change from little Summer who very gently takes a cookie.

ETA: I think ring rentals are a good idea. You can pace it how you want, not worry about specific exercises and just worry about fun.


----------



## Laurelin

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Lol I am having the opposite problem, Josefina is too slow and careful ha ha.


Some dogs start off slower then pick up speed. We do a lot of drive building games in our foundations classes that also help make things exciting for the dogs. Our class right now is a great group of dogs. Very fun dogs (lots of my favorite breeds!) and all pretty fast.


----------



## elrohwen

him re-engage faster if that makes sense. Hanks is very dog friendly and loves other dogs so they are a huge distraction for him. He is very focused overall for being so young but he has big issues especially when other dogs are running. I think it just takes time. 

I wonder if your instructor would be less strict if you guys had the other dogs crated? I don't mean to get into that debate again but if one of our dogs run off (and they all do) there's no danger because everyone else is in their crate. So there's no real 'urgency' in a situation which makes it much easier to set it up so the dog is making a choice to come back and the rest of the environment is pretty boring if they bolt. There's no other dogs to try to play with and the people all ignore them (well... supposed to).[/quote]

I think even having dogs on the other side of the ring gate would be fine - I don't know why our previous class insisted on them being in the ring for beginner levels. I tried Rally off leash with the other dogs outside the ring and he did zoom off to check things out, but he didn't even bother with the other dogs. Last night the three other dogs were out in the ring with us, off leash, and everybody was just doing their thing, so obviously it was the worst possible situation. Haha. But really, once he realized the other dogs didn't want to play with him, he just completely ignored them and focused on me. Not that I would purposefully set up agility classes like that, but it was interesting to see. 

I don't even live near the other agility place anymore, but I might try a class or two at the place I'm now doing Rally. They keep dogs out of the ring, so I think he would have an easier time. I agree that putting other dogs out there and then trying to make him stay engaged is just a losing battle, unless I know there's no safety issue and I just wait him out like I did last night.

At home he focuses really well in out little fenced off agility area. At first I thought there was no way he would focus outside in the woods, but I did some Give Me a Break stuff and after only one or two days he was done zooming and was totally engaged. He seems to need that time to run around and then make the decision on his own that working with me is more fun. It might even be a little bit of an anxiety thing, where he can't focus on work until he's checked out his environment.

Really, all I want are private lessons, but I can't seem to make that work with my schedule :-(


----------



## Laurelin

I know with Hank if he ever got rewarded by running off an playing with another dog that would set us back a to. 

I have a feeling he and Watson would be bros. lol


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I know with Hank if he ever got rewarded by running off an playing with another dog that would set us back a to.
> 
> I have a feeling he and Watson would be bros. lol


Haha. Yes, I think they would.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

So Invitationals was. Interesting. Kimma has been to dog shows, including big indoor ones. She even competed in Rally at the National Dog Show in Philly quite a few times, Qing every run there. But for some reason the way this whole this was set up freaked her right out. Like visibly shaking before going in the ring. We worked on getting her comfortable, we just ran (no fixing things), and by the end she was getting better. But no clean runs, no Qs. I'm not disappointed, of course, but just surprised that she was so scared. I'm hoping it does not bleed in to trials around here. 

I'm proud of her that even through her fears she did some nice things and was pretty speedy considering. 

Not sure if we will be going again next year, though the event itself was pretty cool IMO.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

elrohwen said:


> Those are the ones who are so much fun to watch! We had an Aussie in our last class who was like that and she was hilarious and amazing, though I did feel bad for her green owner trying to learn handling fast enough to keep up.


Welcome to my exact scenario! I'm so clumsy and my crazy amped up dog does not help. I wish I could have started with my Labx years ago.


----------



## sassafras

If Squash had a better handler, he'd be so amazing. It's hard to see, but back in that corner before the dog walk there's a jump with the gate-style sides and he's not super familiar with those so he kinda blew it off at first, and I screwed him up on that last jump and the tunnel at the end.

But I'm still proud of him, this is one of the longest courses we've done so far.


----------



## Laurelin

Woooo Squash!

Hank had his second to last class of this pre-agility session (wild! it's gone so fast!)

Ugh he is SO FUN. Just so fun.

Quick recap:

- more left and rights.
- bang game
- circle work
- start line stays
- intro'd a jump
- 4 feet in a box
- 2 on/2 off work
- curved and straight tunnel
- started table behavior
- crate games
- nose touches

Then he played a good 30 minutes just running and running with my friend's dog. It's INCREDIBLE to watch them go. They are both insanely fast. 

Then we went on a 3 mile jaunt.

Then he's home asleep the rest of the day. I love him just a little bit.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

sassafras said:


> If Squash had a better handler, he'd be so amazing. It's hard to see, but back in that corner before the dog walk there's a jump with the gate-style sides and he's not super familiar with those so he kinda blew it off at first, and I screwed him up on that last jump and the tunnel at the end.
> 
> But I'm still proud of him, this is one of the longest courses we've done so far.


I think the same way about Josefina,  she would be much better with a better handler. Every time we go I feel like I am failing her.


----------



## LoMD13

I'm so sorry Kimma was so upset by that trial, but i think it's incredible that she recovered enough to run1

Squash is looking AMAZING! I love that he does this now. 

Me and Lola did the TDAA trial yesterday, we entered 2 standard runs and 1 snooker. She got 3 Q's and 3 First places! It was our first time trialing in a new environment, so i was mostly just looking for a happy pup. She did some stress-scratching at the start-line of the very first run of the day, but she recovered and ran pretty nicely. A little bit pokey and I made a few mistakes too, but she was moving along and enjoying herself. The main thing that i was excited by is that it was a really long day with a lot of waiting around, and in the past she would stop playing after 1-2 runs. We did 3 runs over an 8 hour day and she was still having fun at the end of the day. All in all, i think we'll mostly stick with USDAA in the future, but i think this was a fun way to get some more trial experience


----------



## sassafras

Cute, but not desirable. 


Seriously, how adorable is Lo? VERY. And the wee equipment is killing me.


----------



## Laurelin

I love the videos! She's adorable! I'm glad y'all had fun in TDAA too. 

I am so impatient. I want to be able to run sequences with Hank already. But I'm trying to remember how important foundations are and enjoy those while we're doing them.


----------



## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> I am so impatient. I want to be able to run sequences with Hank already. But I'm trying to remember how important foundations are and enjoy those while we're doing them.


It's funny, when Squash was younger we took a "for fun" agility class where essentially we started out running full courses immediately. If your dog had trouble with a particular obstacle you could work on it, but there really weren't any foundations to it. And it was ok and we had fun, but the difference between that and running courses now after several months of foundation work is like night and day. I'm constantly thinking "oooohhh THAT'S why we learned this thing that way! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW." So worth it even though it felt like swimming through molasses.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

sassafras said:


> It's funny, when Squash was younger we took a "for fun" agility class where essentially we started out running full courses immediately. If your dog had trouble with a particular obstacle you could work on it, but there really weren't any foundations to it. And it was ok and we had fun, but the difference between that and running courses now after several months of foundation work is like night and day. I'm constantly thinking "oooohhh THAT'S why we learned this thing that way! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW." So worth it even though it felt like swimming through molasses.


Sass, your agility place looks almost exactly like the place I go to.


----------



## Laurelin

sassafras said:


> It's funny, when Squash was younger we took a "for fun" agility class where essentially we started out running full courses immediately. If your dog had trouble with a particular obstacle you could work on it, but there really weren't any foundations to it. And it was ok and we had fun, but the difference between that and running courses now after several months of foundation work is like night and day. I'm constantly thinking "oooohhh THAT'S why we learned this thing that way! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW." So worth it even though it felt like swimming through molasses.


Yeah I've done agility both ways with Summer and after everything started coming together I really got the importance of everything we're doing. Things go so much better when the dog really gets the game.

Foundations are going to be even more important with Mr Speedster. 

But I'm impatient. LOL


----------



## Finkie_Mom

sassafras said:


> If Squash had a better handler, he'd be so amazing. It's hard to see, but back in that corner before the dog walk there's a jump with the gate-style sides and he's not super familiar with those so he kinda blew it off at first, and I screwed him up on that last jump and the tunnel at the end.
> 
> But I'm still proud of him, this is one of the longest courses we've done so far.


You guys look great!!! I love that Squash really enjoys anything he does with you 



Laurelin said:


> Woooo Squash!
> 
> Hank had his second to last class of this pre-agility session (wild! it's gone so fast!)
> 
> Ugh he is SO FUN. Just so fun.
> 
> Quick recap:
> 
> - more left and rights.
> - bang game
> - circle work
> - start line stays
> - intro'd a jump
> - 4 feet in a box
> - 2 on/2 off work
> - curved and straight tunnel
> - started table behavior
> - crate games
> - nose touches
> 
> Then he played a good 30 minutes just running and running with my friend's dog. It's INCREDIBLE to watch them go. They are both insanely fast.
> 
> Then we went on a 3 mile jaunt.
> 
> Then he's home asleep the rest of the day. I love him just a little bit.


Yay for you and Hank!!! He sounds (and looks!) like so much fun.



LoMD13 said:


> I'm so sorry Kimma was so upset by that trial, but i think it's incredible that she recovered enough to run1


Thanks. She's an awesome little girly. Your runs were great!!! Congrats to you and Lo


----------



## kadylady

Zoey got the all clear from the vet last night to resume normal activity! She wants us to start easy on low impact (tunnels, low jumps) and work up to the contacts and weaves. Her last adjustment had held almost perfectly and she had a little muscle soreness but nothing super concerning. Hoping to fit in a couple privates with my instructor before classes start back up mid January. We had one last week and just did handling stuff with Zoey, and Skye got her first lesson! We did some foundation stuff with getting her use to me switching sides behind her (ie rear cross) and introducing a stanchion and some mat work. Skye is also learning to wait quietly in her crate when it is not her turn. Thank you Treat N Train!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

YAY Josefina!!! instead of running the length of the tunnel with her, I sent her through by herself (to better set her up for the next obstacle) and she DID it! She is also getting so much more confident and I was so proud of her.

Mr. Lincoln did awesome yesterday, too! (we dont do anything with him out on the course obviously, he just goes for the socialization opportunity).

SO proud of my dogs!


----------



## dogsule

I am excited....this weekend Belle and I are going to be taking a class for novice open at the place where the closest agility trials are held. Hoping to actually put Belle in a trail either this month or next month. Not sure yet but I wanted to get her to this place to see if she does well in a different setting with their equipment. Classes are going good she is getting better little by little with the teeter. She runs up to the point where it will tip and stops, I have to kind of bribe her with a treat in front of her face but then she will make it tip and come down. Here is our run from tonights class....I did not touch the teeter, she made it go down....


guess when you click on the photo it takes you to photobucket.....


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Josefina did well tonight! Still the slowest team in the group :/, but she will do tunnels and the chute by herself (like if I send her, from a distance away) and i was able to get some distance from her on jumps tonight.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm having a ball with Hank. 

He cracked me up today at class. We were working on a jump stand and a curved tunnel. He took off and ran to the weave poles and did the first two poles! Like seriously did two weaves then ran back to me. I don't even know wtf that was about because he hasn't done any weaves at all (he's too young for starters). We have done some basic 2x2 work with the very first set just running through them at different angles. My trainer was like 'uh wow...have you already started those?' 'Uh no...?' 

Weird boy.

He's fun. It's very different working him though. Right now our main issue is he is very focused on me and getting rewarded either by me with a tug or me with a cookie. I'm trying to throw rewards but even then I am realizing he is checking to me before I throw the reward. He circles in and body checks/bites me if I don't go fast enough with the reward. It's fun... it's a lot harder to control though. I think he's slowly realizing we're out there to do specific things not just ALL THE THINGS.

We may have a month off or may jump right into session 2. My entire class wants to continue on! That was crazy to me and I love the people and dogs in these classes. It's a COOL set of dogs.



dogsule said:


> I am excited....this weekend Belle and I are going to be taking a class for novice open at the place where the closest agility trials are held. Hoping to actually put Belle in a trail either this month or next month. Not sure yet but I wanted to get her to this place to see if she does well in a different setting with their equipment. Classes are going good she is getting better little by little with the teeter. She runs up to the point where it will tip and stops, I have to kind of bribe her with a treat in front of her face but then she will make it tip and come down. Here is our run from tonights class....I did not touch the teeter, she made it go down....
> 
> 
> guess when you click on the photo it takes you to photobucket.....


Awesome run! She is so cute!


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> I'm having a ball with Hank.
> 
> He cracked me up today at class. We were working on a jump stand and a curved tunnel. He took off and ran to the weave poles and did the first two poles! Like seriously did two weaves then ran back to me. I don't even know wtf that was about because he hasn't done any weaves at all (he's too young for starters). We have done some basic 2x2 work with the very first set just running through them at different angles. My trainer was like 'uh wow...have you already started those?' 'Uh no...?'
> 
> Weird boy.
> 
> He's fun. It's very different working him though. Right now our main issue is he is very focused on me and getting rewarded either by me with a tug or me with a cookie. I'm trying to throw rewards but even then I am realizing he is checking to me before I throw the reward. He circles in and body checks/bites me if I don't go fast enough with the reward. It's fun... it's a lot harder to control though. I think he's slowly realizing we're out there to do specific things not just ALL THE THINGS.
> 
> We may have a month off or may jump right into session 2. My entire class wants to continue on! That was crazy to me and I love the people and dogs in these classes. It's a COOL set of dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome run! She is so cute!





Glad you are having so much fun with Hank. I wish I wasn't so new to agility cause I am sure Belle could be awesome but we are learning at the same time.


----------



## dogsule

So Belle and I did the open novice jumpers class on Saturday. I wasn't sure how she would do in a new place, new dogs, different equipment and I have never been there before either. They had a course set up with twelve jumps, two tunnels and 12 weaves. Our first time out, Belle needed to go sniff the trainer and then another person on the course (there for distraction purposes) but she came right back. We started ok but when she got to the weaves she messed up and then went to sniff the wall. Took two more tries before she got the weaves and then we finished the course. I thought it was actually pretty good for her never having been there before. Our second run, I started wrong (I am always the one that messes us up!) and we flubbed the second jump so I went back and started over. OMG Belle nailed everything this run and she was fast! I had a hard time keeping up! I was so proud of her! In two weeks we are going to go watch a trial, as I have never been to one. Then in Feb we will enter our first trial. Can't wait except the fact that our second run is always so much better than our first run...I suppose some day that will get better. LOL!


----------



## dogsule

Well I got Belle's Canine Partners AKC number this morning. Printed out the entry form for the agility trial in February (14th). Will have to get some help from my trainer on filling it out properly. lol!


There are terms I don't know. Like on the class lists...what does MAS stand for, or JWW, what is the difference between NOV A and NOV B?


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> There are terms I don't know. Like on the class lists...what does MAS stand for, or JWW, what is the difference between NOV A and NOV B?


JWW = Jumpers with Weaves, so there are only jumps, weaves and possible tunnels, no contact obstacles. 
Nov A vs B: Basically A is for first timer handlers, if you haven't put an AKC agility title on a dog. B is for experienced handlers who have put an AKC agility title on a dog. Zoey started in Novice A as she was my first dog. When Skye starts she will start in Novice B since I handled Zoey to her Novice titles already. 

I highly recommend reading the rule book, several times. It explains everything. I still go back and refer to it for stuff. https://images.akc.org/pdf/rulebooks/REAGIL.pdf

Congrats on entering your first trial!


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> JWW = Jumpers with Weaves, so there are only jumps, weaves and possible tunnels, no contact obstacles.
> Nov A vs B: Basically A is for first timer handlers, if you haven't put an AKC agility title on a dog. B is for experienced handlers who have put an AKC agility title on a dog. Zoey started in Novice A as she was my first dog. When Skye starts she will start in Novice B since I handled Zoey to her Novice titles already.
> 
> I highly recommend reading the rule book, several times. It explains everything. I still go back and refer to it for stuff. https://images.akc.org/pdf/rulebooks/REAGIL.pdf
> 
> Congrats on entering your first trial!



Thanks for explaining that. Nov A vs B makes total sense. Glad to hear they do that cause I can see having experience with other dogs in agility would be a big help compared to those like me that have never even seen a trial. lol!


So technically I can enter more than just NOV STD, I could probably do NOV JWW also if I wanted as that is what we did on Saturday and Belle was great! They have a NOV FAST too but not sure if we are ready for that. lol! I am going to talk to my agility instructor on all this too just thought I could gain some knowledge here too. Ok was reading the handbook....would I have to have a qualifying score in NOV STD to be able to enter the NOV JWW? Is that how this works? 


What does MAS stand for? Master, right?


Thanks for the link to the rule book!!


----------



## Laurelin

Shoot. 

So here's the deal. My club's trial closes TODAY. I will be working the trial some. 

Do I enter Summer or not? She's retired but we need 1 Q in snookers to title. She's had great days lately. No seizures in a month. Haven't practiced in 2 months. I am debating entering her in JUST snookers on Sunday.

Crazy? I'm not sure what to do.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Shoot.
> 
> So here's the deal. My club's trial closes TODAY. I will be working the trial some.
> 
> Do I enter Summer or not? She's retired but we need 1 Q in snookers to title. She's had great days lately. No seizures in a month. Haven't practiced in 2 months. I am debating entering her in JUST snookers on Sunday.
> 
> Crazy? I'm not sure what to do.



Aw, tough decision. What is snookers?


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

LOL talk about WEIRD ... one of my old teachers is in my class with me now! She was horrible and treated me horribly, even going so far as calling me stupid to my face! But I dont think she remembers me ... or if she does, she hasnt said anything.

Anyway, she is still her old, bossy self because she is buzzing around trying to tell everyone what they should be doing with their dogs and even went so far as to talk behind the back of another class member about how their dog was "abused" because she (the dog) was having an off day and had to to some of the course on leash. I dont know if she meant that the dog was abused before the current owner got it or not, she never clarified. She told me that "Agility is a sport of speed and I need to make my dog go faster" so like an idiot I listened to her and Josefina shut down and stopped because like I knew, she wasn't ready to speed up. After class I asked my instructor about it and he says that she will naturally speed up when she gets more confident, how she is already faster than she was and to not worry about it (I didnt tell him someone in the class told me I should be going faster, I just mentioned it).

I know its not my place but I feel like she should be letting the instructor do what he is getting paid for. Also, she called Lincoln some other breed (mom doesnt remember what it was) and she was like "no, hes a MAS" to which she replied. "Oh yeah I knew that ... because I know dogs!"


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Shoot.
> 
> So here's the deal. My club's trial closes TODAY. I will be working the trial some.
> 
> Do I enter Summer or not? She's retired but we need 1 Q in snookers to title. She's had great days lately. No seizures in a month. Haven't practiced in 2 months. I am debating entering her in JUST snookers on Sunday.
> 
> Crazy? I'm not sure what to do.


Enter since it's just one class and pull if it comes around and you aren't comfortable with it? Easier to pay and pull one entry than multiple. Tough call though, I don't envy that. Glad to hear she has been doing well.


----------



## Laurelin

Well I thought about it all day and then decided to take Summer out to play with the jumps after work and she was just not into it. We'll stick to TDAA ring rentals for fun. I SO wanted to finish that title but I don't want to force her if she's not into it. She seems to have a lot of fun with tricks and teacup and with teacup you can enter day of the trial here so no wasting money if it's a bad day for her. It's hard because sometimes I take her out and she just has a blast. I'd like to keep her as active as possible. 



dogsule said:


> Aw, tough decision. What is snookers?


Snookers is a game in USDAA (may be in other orgs? I'm not sure). You have to take a red jump, other obstacle, red jump, other obstacle, red jump, other obstacle, then do a pre-set closing sequence. (That's the simple version!)

Hank and I played with out vs push tonight on 2 jumps set to 6" and he did fantastic! I can see his brain really clicking in and understanding things. He's starting to actually really think things through and make decisions about what to do. We also did a lot of games tonight and tug. He is fun.

We have a MONTH off classes. How will I survive? lol And this is the first trial I'm skipping in like 2 years. Ugh.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Finally back to classes and at a new facility! At first Kairi was completely amped up. New place, new dogs, new obstacles! She was crazy the first 10 minutes and decided to take a leisurely stroll after her run was over. Once we re-grabbed her focus she did very well and was completely in the zone! We learned a lot of strange new sets so it was definitely a challenge for me. Kairi rocked her weaves, start line stay, did great with distance and continues to make it difficult for me to think by blasting ahead of me. I really love her enthusiasm. The new facility made it very easy for me to control her reactive behavior when other dogs are running. She did AWESOME around those dogs. 

Then after I was so proud of her for being a good girl.. we walk out the door to go home. She yanked me forward.. I was jolted a few steps ahead.. right onto a patch of ice.. slipped and fell on my arse. DANGIT DOG. WHY. More obedience classes for you.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Finally back to classes and at a new facility! At first Kairi was completely amped up. New place, new dogs, new obstacles! She was crazy the first 10 minutes and decided to take a leisurely stroll after her run was over. Once we re-grabbed her focus she did very well and was completely in the zone! We learned a lot of strange new sets so it was definitely a challenge for me. Kairi rocked her weaves, start line stay, did great with distance and continues to make it difficult for me to think by blasting ahead of me. I really love her enthusiasm. The new facility made it very easy for me to control her reactive behavior when other dogs are running. She did AWESOME around those dogs.
> 
> Then after I was so proud of her for being a good girl.. we walk out the door to go home. She yanked me forward.. I was jolted a few steps ahead.. right onto a patch of ice.. slipped and fell on my arse. DANGIT DOG. WHY. More obedience classes for you.


I am already working on Lincoln's pulling lol, it's amazing how strong such a small guy is!


----------



## dogsule

OK I have another question. Was reading the agility rule book from that link and wondered how often are there buzzers/horns going off at the agility trials? Are they loud? Belle is really funny about noises sometimes, not sure why. She can sit and watch fireworks with me no problem but open a can of Pillsbury rolls and she hides under my daughters bed. She had issues with the bang of the teeter in agility but seems to be conditioning to that really well. Not sure what the buzzers will do to her, hopefully nothing cause not all noises bother her but you can never tell. I guess I will find out how she reacts on the 17th when I take her to the trial to watch. I am bringing treats with so will just treat her through the noises or anything that seems to bother her. I use boiled chicken breast pieces for treats so she can have as many as she can eat. LOL!


Filled out the entry form for the trial in February last night. Just have to drop it in the mail. I did enter her in Nov A -STD, JWW and FAST. I could enter her in both NOV STD and JWW again on Sunday but I think I will just stick to one day for now. The trial actually runs Friday through Sunday. I cannot do Fridays though.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I am already working on Lincoln's pulling lol, it's amazing how strong such a small guy is!


My Aussie has been by far the most bullheaded dog I've dealt with for pulling. No amount of consistency has completely worked, because she KNOWS she is strong enough for that 2 seconds to pull me forward before I stop her and move back. She is usually pretty good on leash until she decides she isn't for a minute. These Aussies are lucky they are so darn cute!


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> My Aussie has been by far the most bullheaded dog I've dealt with for pulling. No amount of consistency has completely worked, because she KNOWS she is strong enough for that 2 seconds to pull me forward before I stop her and move back.


Definitely my least favorite thud trait.

And we're back in 2 weeks - well, Kylie and I are back, molly starts. I'm climbing out my skin with excitement.


----------



## Laurelin

dogsule said:


> OK I have another question. Was reading the agility rule book from that link and wondered how often are there buzzers/horns going off at the agility trials? Are they loud? Belle is really funny about noises sometimes, not sure why. She can sit and watch fireworks with me no problem but open a can of Pillsbury rolls and she hides under my daughters bed. She had issues with the bang of the teeter in agility but seems to be conditioning to that really well. Not sure what the buzzers will do to her, hopefully nothing cause not all noises bother her but you can never tell. I guess I will find out how she reacts on the 17th when I take her to the trial to watch. I am bringing treats with so will just treat her through the noises or anything that seems to bother her. I use boiled chicken breast pieces for treats so she can have as many as she can eat. LOL!
> 
> 
> Filled out the entry form for the trial in February last night. Just have to drop it in the mail. I did enter her in Nov A -STD, JWW and FAST. I could enter her in both NOV STD and JWW again on Sunday but I think I will just stick to one day for now. The trial actually runs Friday through Sunday. I cannot do Fridays though.


I do not know about AKC but in USDAA it's only in the games classes usually. But may also be a loud whistle instead of a buzzer. I've seen it go both ways- some noise phobic dogs are fine and don't notice them and others cannot even run those classes or be in the building if the buzzer is being used.

I think testing it out by taking her to a trial she's not entered in is a great idea.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> Definitely my least favorite thud trait.
> 
> And we're back in 2 weeks - well, Kylie and I are back, molly starts. I'm climbing out my skin with excitement.


My ACD, Izze was like that, no amount if penalty yards or anything like that helped her, because for the exact same reason, she knew for those 2 seconds she could pull me ahead before I could react, and she got bad about it too, she would wait until I wasnt paying attention and pull, very dangerous. So when she would pull me I would pull HER back against me and give her a strong loud "NO!" I swear it was the only thing that worked for her.

Now Josefina and Lincoln? penalty yards work very well for them LOL.



> dogsule
> OK I have another question. Was reading the agility rule book from that link and wondered how often are there buzzers/horns going off at the agility trials? Are they loud? Belle is really funny about noises sometimes, not sure why. She can sit and watch fireworks with me no problem but open a can of Pillsbury rolls and she hides under my daughters bed. She had issues with the bang of the teeter in agility but seems to be conditioning to that really well. Not sure what the buzzers will do to her, hopefully nothing cause not all noises bother her but you can never tell. I guess I will find out how she reacts on the 17th when I take her to the trial to watch. I am bringing treats with so will just treat her through the noises or anything that seems to bother her. I use boiled chicken breast pieces for treats so she can have as many as she can eat. LOL!
> 
> 
> Filled out the entry form for the trial in February last night. Just have to drop it in the mail. I did enter her in Nov A -STD, JWW and FAST. I could enter her in both NOV STD and JWW again on Sunday but I think I will just stick to one day for now. The trial actually runs Friday through Sunday. I cannot do Fridays though.


Josefina was scared of the teeter bang too, but I just ressured her every time it happened and turned it into a positive experience by playing with her near where the teeter was while we waited for our turn to run (if it was near the fence) she finally got used to it.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> I do not know about AKC but in USDAA it's only in the games classes usually. But may also be a loud whistle instead of a buzzer. I've seen it go both ways- some noise phobic dogs are fine and don't notice them and others cannot even run those classes or be in the building if the buzzer is being used.
> 
> I think testing it out by taking her to a trial she's not entered in is a great idea.



That would be great if there isn't, I don't think a whistle would bother her. Will know for sure on the 17th I guess. Thanks!


----------



## dogsule

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Josefina was scared of the teeter bang too, but I just ressured her every time it happened and turned it into a positive experience by playing with her near where the teeter was while we waited for our turn to run (if it was near the fence) she finally got used to it.



She is slowly getting used to it. Some days are worse than others but generally she is ok with it. She does know she will get a treat when it bangs. LOL!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> She is slowly getting used to it. Some days are worse than others but generally she is ok with it. She does know she will get a treat when it bangs. LOL!


Lucky you ... mine wont take treats during training LOL


----------



## dogsule

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Lucky you ... mine wont take treats during training LOL



Really? I wonder why not? For agility I buy boneless skinless chicken breasts and boil them and cut them into small pieces for treats. So she gets a pretty high value treat for class. I can't do hotdogs or some of the things other people use as she has a more sensitive stomach. I used to use hotdogs when I played with the girls outside in the snow (to make sure they didn't ever take off) but that stopped once we got Belle.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> Really? I wonder why not? For agility I buy boneless skinless chicken breasts and boil them and cut them into small pieces for treats. So she gets a pretty high value treat for class. I can't do hotdogs or some of the things other people use as she has a more sensitive stomach. I used to use hotdogs when I played with the girls outside in the snow (to make sure they didn't ever take off) but that stopped once we got Belle.


Dont know. I have never been able to get her to take treats during training, at home, fine, at the training place? nope. she will tug as a reward, though.


----------



## Siould

I just started agility classes with my Golden Retriever and it is so much fun!


----------



## Siould

My Collie already does agility, but just for fun. He isn't registered, so he can't earn any titles.


----------



## Siould

I wish my Collie was registered, as he is great. He would be an agility champion in now time. But, since he doesn't have papers, it's just a lot of fun for the both of us!


----------



## Siould

Does that AKC mixed-breed program allow purebred dogs without papers to join? I'm pretty sure the dogs must be spayed/neutered. My Collie is neutered, so that wouldn't be a problem. Can dogs earn titles? If so, are they the same titles that purebred AKC registered dogs can earn? I've been thinking about registering him in their mixed breed program, but I'm unsure if he can be registered because he is a purebred Collie. He just doesn't have papers. I think the UKC has something like that too, don't they?


----------



## Laurelin

Siould, what country are you in? In the US and Canada I believe all venues allow unregistered dogs to compete. All the venues in the US I know of also allow mixed breeds. Mixed breeds can earn the same titles as purebreds.

Just curious as I was looking at your past posts but you have a collie, 2 Chihuahuas, a shih poo, an akita, and a golden???


----------



## Siould

I'm in the US. I've never competed with an unregistered dog before. All dogs that I've competed with have been registered. My niece, who is staying with me while her parents work out their messy divorce has the Shih-Poo, the Chihuahua I co-own with a professional breeder, and I have a Collie, a Golden Retriever, an Akita and a Beagle that are just pets.


----------



## Laurelin

Neat! Well if I were you, I'd look into competing with the collie. AKC has their PAL/Canine Partners listing. Any other venue like CPE, NADAC, USDAA do not need a KC registration. You just register the dog with the agility venue.


----------



## Siould

I forgot Dachshund in my list! I also have a female red piebald Dachshund. She has been very difficult to train. But, she was easy to housebreak. I've had some nutty dominance trainers tell me to "be the pack leader" and I always laugh in their face (my Dachshund could make them cry).


----------



## Siould

Unfortunately, after the female has her litter, the breeder wants either the male or female back and for me to relinquish my co-ownership on one for full ownership on the other (she hasn't decided yet). My Collie is fully trained in agility. I will definitely look into registering him with that PAL. You're going to have to explain what CPE is to me, as I play the stock market and I only know that as Callon Petroleum Company. lol I'd probably like to compete with the AKC, as that is where most of my dogs have competed before, along with a few ACA competitions.


----------



## Laurelin

And then I almost fall:


----------



## parus

My big dog is a mutt and he's got a couple AKC titles already and we're working on more. You just have to register for a Canine Partners number. 

The dog needs to be spayed or neutered for this.


----------



## Laurelin

Here is Summer's last trial in december. Our first run was MUCH better (this one I started off running the wrong course so that's a good way to start off....) but I wanted to show off how happy she was. <3 Days like this make it hard to quit.






Also I have no idea who that is in the background that is talking but I just realized what she said.

'Look how she loves this.'

Annnnnd commence balling.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Here is Summer's last trial in december. Our first run was MUCH better (this one I started off running the wrong course so that's a good way to start off....) but I wanted to show off how happy she was. <3 Days like this make it hard to quit.



Look like she is having a blast. I have never seen small equipment before. I don't think we have anything like that for smaller dogs here. I am so hoping to get my dh to make me some jumps this summer and hopefully get a tunnel and teeter. I know dh could make me an A frame but not sure what I would do with it in the winter so not sure about that. I think jumps, tunnel and teeter would be good though too! Oh and weaves...those are easy to make. I have some right now but want to get some different ones.


----------



## LoMD13

Summer looks like she's having a blast! Go little!


----------



## CptJack

Kylie's class got cancelled - we're trying to work something out amongst the few of us who signed up, but it's still very up in the air.

Molly starts Tuesday and I'm both nervous and excited. Mostly excited.


----------



## Kyllobernese

We did not have any Agility classes at all last year, only had four drop-ins in November. We can pay $100 for the year and go and use the equipment whenever we want so that is what my sister and I are going to do this year. We have our own equipment to work on at home but it is nice to practice somewhere else and it is at an indoor arena. Too cold right now, although the past few days have been unseasonably nice out. Have been doing some Agility with Kris this past year and it is sure different with a big dog.


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, I just really, really like classes with other people. I have some equipment at home and I can rent ring space/time at a couple of locations but. I feel like I need another set of eyes and I can't even pretend I don't miss the social aspects of classes, even small, shared private lessons. I also get REALLY nervous when the instructor's just focused on me. I can kind of hide when there are a few people, somehow.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Hey, I am moving to the flower mound tx area soon for a while, does anyone know of a good place to take agility classes around there? I have tried Google searching but to no avail  maybe I am not using the right keywords?


----------



## kadylady

Zoey started class again last night, we have 4 weeks of Skills Drills and then 4 weeks of Competition Readiness. She was extremely unenthusiastic last night. I let all 3 of them rip and tear in the backyard when I got home and they played hard for at least 20 mins nonstop and I think it wiped her out. Won't make that mistake next week! I've been repeating both classes for almost the past year and love them and love the instructors. Still trying to fit in privates with my trainer when I can. I love both, the classes and the privates (I do a semi private with 1 friend). I really love the social aspect of the classes and the support from everyone but then its great to be able to break things down even more during our private time. Plus Skye gets to come and participate during private time and we get 1 on 1 puppy help. I think I am going to go to a trial next weekend, not trialing, but to get Zoey adjusted by our chiro friend and then can spend some time just hanging out with Skye there. Our first planned trial of the year is CPE the 30th of this month.


----------



## Laurelin

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Hey, I am moving to the flower mound tx area soon for a while, does anyone know of a good place to take agility classes around there? I have tried Google searching but to no avail  maybe I am not using the right keywords?


I can't remember where Flower Mound is. There's certainly a lot in DFW area that do USDAA very competitively.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's the AKC group: http://ntxagility.com/

A couple more: http://www.dawgagility.org/index.shtml <--- I know some of them come to our trials and run well

I also see some of their students about: http://www.dallasdogsports.com 

I see their T-Shirts around: http://allfurfundog.com

Sometimes we go down to the Texas Agility shootout. Maybe we'll run into each other.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I agree that I like to train with other people to help. The drop-ins were great as we could work on whatever we wanted but also had other people to help if we were having a problem. One person who has Papillons is also an Agility judge so she is a lot of help. My sister and I work well together but the more eyes the better.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> I can't remember where Flower Mound is. There's certainly a lot in DFW area that do USDAA very competitively.


Flower mound is around ft worth. Closer to Arlington, tx though.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Babydog had his first trial today!!! I wish I could say that he did great, clean run, all that, but no LOL. 

So the trial itself ran REALLY REALLY slow. Started at 9am, I didn't run until 7pm (we were of course in the last thing to run of the day). We were told that beginner/novice dogs didn't have to arrive until after noon so at least we had a bit of heads up, but yeah. 7 hours in the car made for a crazy dog. 

He skipped the first jump and decided to sniff and zoom real quick, but then he did come back for the second obstacle, took it, and was basically fine for the rest hahaha. One little bobble with a jump halfway through because I didn't connect with him like I needed to out of a tunnel. Everything else was good. Oh and he loves ring crew because he thinks they are there to pet him.

He's not ready for AKC yet since his weaves are iffy and those trial environments around here are more chaotic, and the next UKI trial I would go to isn't until April. So a few months to get some more stuff figured out!

ETA - And I actually had my camera with me but couldn't find anyone to record. Either everyone I knew had left or they were helping in the ring. Figures!!!


----------



## kadylady

Yay Babydog!!! Sounds like a pretty good first trial, congrats!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

kadylady said:


> Yay Babydog!!! Sounds like a pretty good first trial, congrats!


Thanks! He definitely had fun and he really did run well 

Sometimes I forget that he's not even 2 yet LOL.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Boo I wish I had someone to take videos of me and Josefina  or at least more pictures. 

I have another question, Lincoln is 4 months old, is there anything I can safely do with him to kind of acclimate him to the agility equipment? I was thinking of taking him through the course and showing him all the obstacles before the class starts, since I get there early anyway.


----------



## Kyllobernese

4 months old is pretty young to do any Agility equipment other than walking him between poles on the jumps, or getting him used to walking on a plank on the ground or making a wobble board so they get used to something moving under their feet. You can teach them an awful lot before they even get to the age of being able to do the equipment. Lots of U-tube videos on it.


----------



## dogsule

Well we went to watch our first agility trial on Saturday. I wanted to see how Belle reacted to all the commotion/noise etc. She has a few issues with noises at times. She actually did really well. The first dog that ran after we got there was a barker and totally freaked Belle out. She hid in her kennel but after awhile and some other barkers she calmed down a lot and did fine. She is normally a barky dog at home but so far at agility classes she never barks. Well at the end of the trial (we were there for about five hours) she was letting everyone know she was there too. I ended up being a bar setter and a leash runner for awhile and Belle did fine in her kennel alone until one dog took the gate out and hit her kennel...then she started barking/whining at me but she wasn't scared. She also accepted petting from people just fine and was fine around all the other dogs...no close interactions with any dogs though. 


Oh and we got Belle measured on Sat too...15 5/8"...only temporary as she isn't 2 yet. She will be 2 in April.


I must say after watching this trial, that Border Collies are some INTENSE dogs!! Holy cow!!


I am planning on taking two classes at the place where the trials are held (it is about an hour away from my town) before we do our first trial in Feb.


----------



## Laurelin

So training Hank you must be aware that this happens a lot. Lol






Hank and I hung out at a trial this weekend. He did good. 

Got a million compliments on him and amazement that he's a shelter dog and 100000 comments about how different he is than Summer and Mia. He's a good good boy.

I tried Hank at 12" just for kicks running straight a couple times.


----------



## Canyx

Sorry Laurelin but I didn't catch anything but a spotty blur. Higher res video please?


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> So training Hank you must be aware that this happens a lot. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hank and I hung out at a trial this weekend. He did good.
> 
> Got a million compliments on him and amazement that he's a shelter dog and 100000 comments about how different he is than Summer and Mia. He's a good good boy.
> 
> I tried Hank at 12" just for kicks running straight a couple times.





He is fast!! So he bounces off you all the time?? Too funny.


Belle and I hung out at a trial this weekend too. I cannot wait for Valentines day so we can run in our first one.


----------



## kadylady

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I have another question, Lincoln is 4 months old, is there anything I can safely do with him to kind of acclimate him to the agility equipment? I was thinking of taking him through the course and showing him all the obstacles before the class starts, since I get there early anyway.


Skye is 4 months old today and so far she has played on a wobble board, played the bang game with the end of the teeter, started foundations for handling maneuvers, with and without stanchions, done some work on planks and perches, played with fit paws equipment, started front and rear foot targeting, played with a super short tunnel, and played on and walked over as many different surfaces and things as possible. Also crate games. Lots and lots and lots of crate games.


----------



## kadylady

Canyx said:


> Sorry Laurelin but I didn't catch anything but a spotty blur. Higher res video please?


Haha, seconded! I had to watch a couple times cuz whoa! lol Hank looks like so much fun!


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Skye is 4 months old today and so far she has played on a wobble board, played the bang game with the end of the teeter, started foundations for handling maneuvers, with and without stanchions, done some work on planks and perches, played with fit paws equipment, started front and rear foot targeting, played with a super short tunnel, and played on and walked over as many different surfaces and things as possible. Also crate games. Lots and lots and lots of crate games.


This is about what we did with Molly. Also some send outs and directionals and driving to a target. 

But equipment? No. Nothing but the tunnel.


----------



## Laurelin

dogsule said:


> He is fast!! So he bounces off you all the time?? Too funny.


Yeah... that is his go to 'I'm excited!' behavior (or biting). He has done that off the walls in the house, off me, off the back fence, off the barn hunt judge, off two dog trainers, off random people at the park, and off the stairs to flip over a dog he was playing with at the dog park. :/

I don't even know.

That speed is fun but definitely bringing some new challenges to the table. I suppose all dogs bring their own issues and difficulties to the sport.  Keeps things fresh and fun!

We're starting some work on getting him to respond to me at a further distance. I just cannot in any way remotely keep up with him. I keep getting asked if he's going to debut soon and I just laugh. He could techinically enter TDAA pretty much the next trial because I believe the cutoff is 14 months (or maybe 12) but uh... we've got a long long road ahead of us.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

This was my last class here for a while    I know there are agility places where I am going, my aunt lives in that general area, and she was like a big time agility competitor, before her last agility dog passed away a few years ago. But still ... the feels! the anxiety of starting somewhere new! the stress!!! Yikes! 

Josefina is finally coming into her own!!! she will do front and rear crosses now!!! so proud of her! Also I took Lincoln with me when I walked the course (I was the first one there, no one had arrived yet and the trainer said it was okay) I took him through the weave poles (he did AWESOME on them!) and showed him the chute and the tunnel, he went inside and investigated and smelled everything (Which I treated him HEAVILY for!)! And I know it was naughty, but the tire was set at 8 inches, so I took him through once, to see what he would do, at first he was like "I dont know about this ..." but I showed him a treat and he was like "Okay!" and hopped right through! He is turning into a really awesome dog, so proud of my little man!!!!!


----------



## kadylady

Little baby Skye went and hung out at her first agility trial on Saturday for a couple hours! She did so so good! Got to say hi to a few people, got to say hi to a couple friendly adult dogs, and watched a class ring side. She handled it like a pro. Friday we are doing a CPE trial so she will get to hang with us all day. Can't wait to get back to trialing. We took 2 months off and it feels like its been forever!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

We had a very out of focus night tonight. Kairi spent a bit of time screaming.. but not at other dogs. One of the other handlers had steak in her pocket and Kairi decided she HAD to have it. I'm bringing steak next time. -_-

On a positive note.. got a lot of one on one time just working on my handling skills.


----------



## Sibe

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> We had a very out of focus night tonight. Kairi spent a bit of time screaming.. but not at other dogs. One of the other handlers had steak in her pocket and Kairi decided she HAD to have it. I'm bringing steak next time. -_-
> 
> On a positive note.. got a lot of one on one time just working on my handling skills.


There is one woman in our class whom Denali LOVES. I can have the exact same food and Denali wants hers instead. So I use it as a reward. Run for me, get the reward from me, and bonus reward is to "Go see Auntie [name]!" Several times I've been on the start line in class and Denali is watching the other woman. I've found using the other woman as a reward works really well! Denali tells me what she wants as a reward.. if she wants to go see the woman, go get the bunnies (run around the far end of the field), go get a drink/play in the pool. She's very food motivated but giving a bonus reward after a good run really helps her as she craves having some freedom. Such a princess husky.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Sigh ... I might even up, if we ever get into competition ... doing JWW with Josefina because although she will do the weaves, its really not ver favorite thing and she is reeeeaaaally slow at it. She really is very "meh" about the teeter, too.

But she is doing front crosses now and I can stand in the middle of a combo of jumps and have her take the series around me without even moving anymore ... JO JOSEFINA! She has come so far since we started this! Sooooo proud of her!


----------



## dogsule

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Sigh ... I might even up, if we ever get into competition ... doing JWW with Josefina because although she will do the weaves, its really not ver favorite thing and she is reeeeaaaally slow at it. She really is very "meh" about the teeter, too.
> 
> But she is doing front crosses now and I can stand in the middle of a combo of jumps and have her take the series around me without even moving anymore ... JO JOSEFINA! She has come so far since we started this! Sooooo proud of her!



Yeah on the front crosses Josefina!! Belle isn't crazy about the teeter and I doubt she ever will be but she is improving weekly and she is awesome at the weaves. Last week my agility trainer said I need to lead out way more when Belle is in a tunnel cause she will only get faster and she is pretty fast now. I hate getting too far ahead though in fear she will go to the wrong thing.


When Belle and I do our first trial in Feb (it is an AKC trial) I entered Standard, JWW and FAST. What was I thinking? My agility trainer said I should and I did this before I ever saw what FAST was. Ok it totally confuses me. So I guess we will get some fun if not embarrassing practice at it. LOL! The Novice doesn't look too bad really but having to pick your own course to get enough points really isn't in me quite yet. I "think" I can send Belle that far to go over jumps for Novice , not sure if we will ever get to the Excellent FAST though!


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> When Belle and I do our first trial in Feb (it is an AKC trial) I entered Standard, JWW and FAST. What was I thinking? My agility trainer said I should and I did this before I ever saw what FAST was. Ok it totally confuses me. So I guess we will get some fun if not embarrassing practice at it. LOL! The Novice doesn't look too bad really but having to pick your own course to get enough points really isn't in me quite yet. I "think" I can send Belle that far to go over jumps for Novice , not sure if we will ever get to the Excellent FAST though!


I look at the games classes (FAST and T2B) as just an extra practice round. I think FAST is great. Since you make your own course you can choose what you want to practice. For me and Zoey, we are going over that A-frame as many times as possible during a FAST run so we can practice her contact criteria in competition. It's also a place where I can try something different, where in a Standard run I might play it safe with my handling, I can test us in FAST or T2B. So far, the couple times we have done FAST it has been Zoey getting her zoomies out before the "important" runs lol I think she does have one Novice FAST leg though.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie has her first private lesson Sunday, at 11 a.m. We'll probably do these once a week (as the instructor can work us in) through Feb and maybe March. I know there's a bunch of pre-trial practices coming up, too, that I intend to make sure I get to. Then, yeah, the trial toward the end of April. My big plan right now is just to set enough money aside NOW to carry us through 2015. That way I won't have that as an excuse to chicken out. 

More positive news is, it looks like we're going from 2 very local trials a year to *3*. Then maybe 2016 I can start expanding our radius to pick up more trials. Maybe. My goals are still mostly sucking it up and actually entering a trial. It's really odd how much I love playing and practice and classes and how much I DO NOT CARE about actual trials. I think it's anxiety related, honestly. Maybe it'll go away.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> More positive news is, it looks like we're going from 2 very local trials a year to *3*. Then maybe 2016 I can start expanding our radius to pick up more trials. Maybe. My goals are still mostly sucking it up and actually entering a trial. It's really odd how much I love playing and practice and classes and how much I DO NOT CARE about actual trials. I think it's anxiety related, honestly. Maybe it'll go away.



I guess I am lucky. The closest place that holds the trials is an hour from here and many different clubs hold their trials there. They pretty much have one to two trials a month, year round. Also I know there is another trial once or twice a year that is about 2 hours from here. For now I am just sticking with the one that is an hour away. There may be more in other towns that I don't know about yet either. Would be nice to have a trial in my town but we don't have a regulation size ring to hold trials.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> I guess I am lucky. The closest place that holds the trials is an hour from here and many different clubs hold their trials there. They pretty much have one to two trials a month, year round. Also I know there is another trial once or twice a year that is about 2 hours from here. For now I am just sticking with the one that is an hour away. There may be more in other towns that I don't know about yet either. Would be nice to have a trial in my town but we don't have a regulation size ring to hold trials.


Yeah, the place I'm calling local is actually about an hour away. But the 'big club' for the area is closer to two and host mainly AKC. I may eventually suck it up and enter some AKC trials, since Kylie's already registered with them but I'd honestly prefer to avoid them altogether for reasons I don't want to get into. I'm also pretty intimidated by that huge club. I'll keep pondering it but this year I just want to do the trials at 'home', run by people I know.


----------



## kadylady

Between CPE and AKC I could trial almost every weekend within an hours drive, 1.5 hrs max. It has it's pros and cons. Pros are obvious. Cons...it's hard to not trial every weekend when they are that available!!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> Yeah on the front crosses Josefina!! Belle isn't crazy about the teeter and I doubt she ever will be but she is improving weekly and she is awesome at the weaves. Last week my agility trainer said I need to lead out way more when Belle is in a tunnel cause she will only get faster and she is pretty fast now. I hate getting too far ahead though in fear she will go to the wrong thing.
> 
> 
> When Belle and I do our first trial in Feb (it is an AKC trial) I entered Standard, JWW and FAST. What was I thinking? My agility trainer said I should and I did this before I ever saw what FAST was. Ok it totally confuses me. So I guess we will get some fun if not embarrassing practice at it. LOL! The Novice doesn't look too bad really but having to pick your own course to get enough points really isn't in me quite yet. I "think" I can send Belle that far to go over jumps for Novice , not sure if we will ever get to the Excellent FAST though!


AND she is getting FASTER, too and really seems like she is starting to enjoy it now! The only thing is we werent doing a dog walk, and it was off to the side, and I dont know if I rotated my body too much when I directed her over a jump, but she ended up taking the dog walk instead LOL, she loves the dog walk, its her fave thing. BUT this is a dog who had confidence issues (has always had them) and was afraid to tey anything without being directed and she actually DID an obstacle on her own accord!!! it was the wrong one, but the effort was there!

Edit: someone in my class told me that you arent allowed to use the word "no" in the ring anymore, is this true?


----------



## CptJack

Don't know about at trials, but I know it's very, very commonly discouraged at early levels of agility and I don't know why you'd be using it with a dog who has confidence issues in a sport where you need the dog happy, enthusiastic, and trying even MORE than you want it to be correct (at early stages).


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> Don't know about at trials, but I know it's very, very commonly discouraged at early levels of agility and I don't know why you'd be using it with a dog who has confidence issues in a sport where you need the dog happy, enthusiastic, and trying even MORE than you want it to be correct (at early stages).


No, not me LOL, this other lady was saying that when she competes, they disqualify for using the word no. I myself dont use it when we are agility training.


----------



## Laurelin

I don't know about no specifically but I do know you will get kicked out for swearing. I have also had a judge warn us she would kick you out if she felt you were being harsh toward your dog.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> I have also had a judge warn us she would kick you out if she felt you were being harsh toward your dog.


I've heard and seen this at every NADAC trial I've been to and have heard the same from other venues.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I don't know about no specifically but I do know you will get kicked out for swearing. I have also had a judge warn us she would kick you out if she felt you were being harsh toward your dog.


But what if I call him a jacka** in a positive and loving manner? J/K!

I actually do call him that, all the time, but luckily not in front of others so I don't think it would slip out at a trial.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> I've heard and seen this at every NADAC trial I've been to and have heard the same from other venues.


How does someone constitute "Harsh" though?


----------



## CptJack

OwnedbyACDs said:


> How does someone constitute "Harsh" though?


This is from the NADAC handbook:


> The handler is allowed to use verbal or visual commands to assist the dog throughout the course. All commands must be given in a sportsmanlike manner, or they shall be faulted. The judge shall assess the faults to be equivalent to the degree of the offense, from a twenty (20) fault penalty to elimination. Displays of anger, foul language, or excessive harshness shall always be faulted.
> 
> Any handler eliminated from the ring for poor sportsmanship shall be excused for the remainder of the trial and a written report shall be sent to the NADAC office.
> 
> Any handler which the judge feels has treated a dog in an inhumane manner shall be removed from the agility grounds and a report must be submitted to the NADAC office.


Basically it's going to be *Somewhat* subjective but really? Don't sound (or be) angry at your dog and don't issue corrections in the ring. Definitely don't physically correct them.

I've heard plenty of people getting loud, but angry just... sounds different, IMO. And shouting is usually a COMMAND, not the dog's name, or 'NO". More like "HERE" or "(OBSTACLE NAME!)"


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> But what if I call him a jacka** in a positive and loving manner? J/K!
> 
> I actually do call him that, all the time, but luckily not in front of others so I don't think it would slip out at a trial.


I am about 99% sure someday I'm going to do an actual trial and scream the (non safe version of) CRAP in the middle of it and be excused. Not at Kylie, mind you, but because I tripped or got lost or rammed my knee into a piece of equipment or - 

I don't have a clean mouth, naturally.


----------



## Laurelin

OwnedbyACDs said:


> How does someone constitute "Harsh" though?


Judge's discretion. I know people who feel like they were asked to leave unfairly but it is what it is. I get why they have those rules.

I will probably get kicked out of my run one day for tripping and letting loose a swear word. Not at the dog, mind you, but I just can't help it sometimes.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> I will probably get kicked out of my run one day for tripping and letting loose a swear word. Not at the dog, mind you, but I just can't help it sometimes.


Yeeeep. And people will laugh merrily along with me, I figure. Expect? Hope.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

CptJack said:


> Yeeeep. And people will laugh merrily along with me, I figure. Expect? Hope.


Last night in class I slipped and said "sh**t!" LOL and everyone laughed at me and gave me a hard time about it.


----------



## Laurelin

Anyone else doing denise fenzi's intro to agility class? We're doing the bronze level. All you need is 3 jumps!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Jumps arent the problem here, she loves jumps, its the teeter and the weaves she is like "meh" about.


----------



## Laurelin

Well the course is 'Intro to Agility- Handling Basics'. So it's about setting up simple handling exercises.  I'm intrigued since she's setting it all up with only 3 jumps as the required equipment. I wish we could have done gold but they are all full. The syllabus looks really good. 

Hank loves to jump and can jump up to eye level. Getting him to go through the jump stands while listening to me and going where I direct him is another story. We've started some basics of threadles and serpentines and he's finally starting to get 'push' but we run into a lot of trouble when his brain turns to 'wooohoooo let's runnnnnnnnnnn!' Serpentines so far have been the most challenging for us and we are just at baby dog level. I'm really hoping this can give ME new ideas for how to set up my few jumps to do some handling work.

ETA: Here is the syllabus.

http://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/2030#syllabus

I plan on continuing next semester to Agility Basics 2 as well. Gonna try to spring a gold slot. Putting registration date on the calendar.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I will be really interested to hear what you think of the class! Keep us posted! And if you get a gold spot, let me know so I can stalk you!


----------



## CptJack

I'm actually going to sign up for that. It won't be before Friday, but it looks really good.


----------



## Sibe

Tonight was Nali's first night back in class after Christmas break followed by vacation. I did exactly zero agility training during our break. Warmed her up, she hit her weave poles perfectly twice before class started. In class the two times she ran them she ducked in between poles 2 and 3 so skipped one. We just kept going, as I've learned it really isn't doing us any good to make her redo them. If she gets them right she gets treat-treat-treat-treat and praise, if she misses we keep going.

No idea when we'll trial again, certainly not again in San Diego and then in Colorado (moving in a couple months!) we'll need to get settled, and back into classes, and make sure she's doing well before trialing there. So maybe this fall?


----------



## kadylady

Also interested to hear what you guys think of the Intro to Agility class @ FDSA! I did the Impulse Control one last term (per recommendation of trainingjunkie...thank you btw) and I was really impressed. I didn't have as much time to work through the exercises as I would have liked (holidays, Zoey being on rest for awhile, new puppy.....) but plan to go back through the lectures here soon and start through again.


----------



## trainingjunkie

You are very welcome! Glad you liked it. I loved that class so much I took it at gold twice! Can't wait to get back to the work. Taking a break for AKC Rally Nationals, but we'll be back.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> I don't know about no specifically but I do know you will get kicked out for swearing. I have also had a judge warn us she would kick you out if she felt you were being harsh toward your dog.




My first AKC trial I watched the weekend before last, there was a person that swore (I didn't hear it but it happened right next to the judge) and the judge blew the whistle and she was done and had to leave the ring. 


Thankfully I never swear and Belle and I try not to say no, my trainer said to never say no cause everything about agility should be positive. She just said to say oops if they do something wrong. It is hard to not say no though. I never say it in a harsh manner though as I have never gotten mad at Belle at all during a class.


----------



## elrohwen

What is the impulse control class like? I've considered taking it, but wasn't sure I had the space/resources for the exercises. Also, Watson doesn't really struggle with impulse control in trainging so much as impulse control in life, and I wasn't sure if the class would help with that. 

I'm also interesting in hearing about the intro to agility class! I plan to take that as soon as it's warm enough outside to work on the exercises. I thought about taking it this time just for the info, and working on stuff in the basement, but it seems worth it to wait.


----------



## dogsule

So hopefully tonight (possible snow and freezing rain this evening) I am going to go to an agility class at the place that holds the trials which is an hour away. Would love to do two classes there before the actual trial on the 14th. She takes drop ins for this class but mentioned it was a quite advanced class but welcomed me to come. 


Also decided I was going to do both Saturday and Sunday of the trial on the weekend of the 14th. The trial runs Friday through Sunday and you can enter one, two or all three days. I had my entry in for the Saturday runs a day or so after they were accepting entries and was toying with going on Sunday also. Finally decided to just go for it and do two days, entries close this Friday but I checked to make sure I could still enter before sending it in. Sunday is just Standard and JWW no FAST. At least this way if we totally screw up on Saturday we can hopefully redeem ourselves on Sunday. LOL!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> So hopefully tonight (possible snow and freezing rain this evening) I am going to go to an agility class at the place that holds the trials which is an hour away. Would love to do two classes there before the actual trial on the 14th. She takes drop ins for this class but mentioned it was a quite advanced class but welcomed me to come.
> 
> 
> Also decided I was going to do both Saturday and Sunday of the trial on the weekend of the 14th. The trial runs Friday through Sunday and you can enter one, two or all three days. I had my entry in for the Saturday runs a day or so after they were accepting entries and was toying with going on Sunday also. Finally decided to just go for it and do two days, entries close this Friday but I checked to make sure I could still enter before sending it in. Sunday is just Standard and JWW no FAST. At least this way if we totally screw up on Saturday we can hopefully redeem ourselves on Sunday. LOL!


It makes me glad that my agility place is inside!


----------



## elrohwen

OwnedbyACDs said:


> It makes me glad that my agility place is inside!


I'm pretty sure her agility place is inside. She's just worried about driving there if the weather is bad.


----------



## dogsule

OwnedbyACDs said:


> It makes me glad that my agility place is inside!



LOL...we do agility inside...it is the hour drive in freezing rain/snow that is concerning. No way would we have outside agility in the winter here in WI.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> I'm pretty sure her agility place is inside. She's just worried about driving there if the weather is bad.




LOL...I responded before I saw your reply...yep it is inside and it is the drive that is concerning. That is the problem with planning stuff in the winter in the upper Midwest....you just never know if it will be possible to be driving in it. However I must say we drive in lots of shit other states wouldn't think of. I drove through plenty of snowstorms getting my daughter to her gymnastics meets. lol!


----------



## elrohwen

dogsule said:


> LOL...I responded before I saw your reply...yep it is inside and it is the drive that is concerning. That is the problem with planning stuff in the winter in the upper Midwest....you just never know if it will be possible to be driving in it. However I must say we drive in lots of shit other states wouldn't think of. I drove through plenty of snowstorms getting my daughter to her gymnastics meets. lol!


I'm in upstate NY, so I feel your pain! I'm commuting 2 hours to work Mondays and Fridays (at least I stay here during the week) and I'm a bit nervous that they are calling for snow both this Friday and next week Monday. I so don't want to get stuck here and not be able to make it home, but I don't want to drive 120 miles in a blizzard either. Blah. Go away, winter!


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> I'm in upstate NY, so I feel your pain! I'm commuting 2 hours to work Mondays and Fridays (at least I stay here during the week) and I'm a bit nervous that they are calling for snow both this Friday and next week Monday. I so don't want to get stuck here and not be able to make it home, but I don't want to drive 120 miles in a blizzard either. Blah. Go away, winter!



Yeah that wouldn't be any fun. That is a long drive too and with snow! Hope it doesn't snow too much! They are calling for freezing drizzle starting around 9ish now (only 20% chance) then mixing with snow around midnight (50% chance) so it looks like it should be ok for tonight. Class is 7:30-8:30 so I will be driving until sometime after 9:30 but hopefully it will be ok yet.


----------



## dogsule

*Help!!*


OMG I am so bummed about last nights class! What happened even made me wake up in the middle of the night and worry about the upcoming trial. Weather was fine thankfully and my daughter came with me. SO we get there and Belle is acting fine, we get situated with the kennel and I go walk one of the courses, there are two set up one jumps with weaves and then one with all the contact obstacles and tunnels and jumps. The place that has the trials has a grooming area which is separate from the ring area. Door to the office/grooming area goes into a hallway that goes to the doors to the ring area so not really connected. Now Belle has taken a class here before and did so well that I decided she was ready to trail. We went to watch a trial there too and again she did great. Her noise issues were not an issue at all either of these times. Last night, I noticed a noise coming from the grooming area...not sure what it was but sounded like possibly a large vacuum cleaner but the sound was muffled so not that loud but Belle hates our vacuum. This was at night so I am assuming they were cleaning up from the day or something. When it was my turn to go and I got Belle out of the crate she immediately looked towards where the noise was coming from and I could tell she was scared of it. We went into the ring and she was just so unfocused, she did pretty poorly. We did get through the course the first time, with a couple of let me out of the ring issues but it wasn't totally awful, just unfocused. Second time up she saw my daughter and ran to her instead of trying to finish the course. Ugh! Then we switched to the other ring, the one with the contacts (by this time the noise had stopped) and she did fine. Ran through the course with a few handling issues by me but did well. Second time up she decided she wanted to stop and sniff the dog walk and totally ignored my commands to come. I started over and she did fine again. Back to the first ring and she was worse than the first two times and we didn't even get to finish...she was just done with it. Now I know she has noise issues but previously even when she didn't like barking dogs and the banging of the teeter it really didn't affect her performance like it did last night. If I thought she had it in her to act like this I never would have entered her in the trial! I am so paranoid now about the upcoming trial! The barking dogs last night, she was fine with, the banging teeter made her startle a bit but didn't bother her either but that other noise just made her unsettled I guess. Do you think there is anything I could do with possibly getting her used to our vacuum cleaner noise that may help if we hear this noise during a trial? I am hoping to be able to go to one more class there, the Wednesday night before the trial but not sure if it will be doable or not. Ugh, ugh, ugh...I know it won't help at all during the trial for me to be all worked up about this either but how can I not be????/


----------



## trainingjunkie

The most important thing is the whole world is for you to try to relax and remember that this is just a dog show and no matter what happens, everything will be fine.

The #1 thing you can do to help your dog is to relax yourself and run as closely to normal as possible.

It's just a dog show. If you get out there and your dog can't run, just say "Thank you!" to the judge and gather your dog gently and leave. Scratch the next run if it's awful or just try again. There are lots of shows. If you get out there and it's too soon for you dog to be successful, it's okay. It just means you need more training and proofing. That's all. Not a big deal. It's all going to be okay.

Don't put too much pressure on yourself. Everyone has been there. Everyone! It will all be fine. Try very, very hard to have fun!


----------



## Laurelin

Yep agreed.

Everyone has had horrible trials before and horrible runs. Dogs get distracted, etc all the time. She won't do anything that people haven't seen before.


----------



## dogsule

Thanks trainingjunkie & Laurelin..... last night during and after class I never even though about the trial actually. I was disappointed of course but it wasn't until the middle of the night that I thought - what if she does this during the trial? I know they have their off days and some dogs do things they don't normally do but this was just so far off for her that it concerned me. I am not worried about looking bad myself actually, I have no problem going out there and messing up myself in front of others but I guess I don't want Belle to look bad. It is fine if she misses something during a run or goes to the wrong obstacle...that is normal but to just totally look like she doesn't belong there will be upsetting to me I guess. I am totally in no way mad at her, not even close actually more like I think I pushed for the trial sooner than I should have maybe even though my trainer said she was ready awhile ago. I guess I can just read her better and now after seeing her last night I think maybe she isn't ready. We will definitely try though, it is already paid for. Standard is first then FAST and then JWW. I am not sure if I will even attempt FAST if she isn't herself at the Standard but will still try JWW regardless. That is my plan for now anyway. I am so hoping I am just blowing off steam here and she is normal during the trial but I guess time will tell. 16 more days.....


Oh and just for the fun of it I grabbed a couple of treats and had her come over by the vacuum, turned it on and proceeded to treat her. She didn't bat an eye at the vacuum and usually she will go hide on or under my daughters bed when we start to vacuum. What a goof!!


----------



## dogsule

trainingjunkie said:


> And just to put a little perspective on things, remember, we run for the love of our dogs.
> 
> Here is my little beloved dog in Excellent on the last competitive run of her life:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ePVjQ1uuGE
> 
> I could tell going in that something was "off" with her. I tried to cheer her up with lots of touching/contact as this would normally make her play and jump and be happy. Obviously, something was very wrong, so I just ran her off course. What you can't see (because the video ends too soon) is that we danced and celebrated at the gate, just like we always did. And then we ran to the crate and partied like she'd Q'd. That isn't on film, but it lives in my memory and I am SO grateful. I had no idea that this run would be our last ever.
> 
> She died shortly after this video. We never stood on a start line again.
> 
> Earlier that trail, she got her Excellent Jumpers title:
> 
> 
> 
> Not trying to be depressing, just trying to help with perspective. I try to always remember that it's all about my dog.
> 
> It's just agility.



OMG that is so sad!! What happened? I am so sorry. 


Thanks for the perspective though....you are right it is all about the dog, that is what is concerning I guess. I am loving agility and having a blast, I want to make sure Belle is loving it too, she seemed to up until last night. She was just so off. She does have a different temperament at class vs at home though. At home she is this barking, rambunctious little dog but at class she is very reserved and quiet but seems to enjoy herself. I am just hoping I am making much ado about nothing.


----------



## trainingjunkie

dogsule said:


> OMG that is so sad!! What happened? I am so sorry.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the perspective though....you are right it is all about the dog, that is what is concerning I guess. I am loving agility and having a blast, I want to make sure Belle is loving it too, she seemed to up until last night. She was just so off. She does have a different temperament at class vs at home though. At home she is this barking, rambunctious little dog but at class she is very reserved and quiet but seems to enjoy herself. I am just hoping I am making much ado about nothing.


It's very normal for dogs to act differently when stressed. Totally normal. Don't panic. With time and the right work, you get your back yard dog into the ring. It's a process though and it doesn't happen overnight. My little whippet can run her fanny off! We are just struggling with getting it into the ring. Takes time and work. We'll totally get there.


----------



## dogsule

trainingjunkie said:


> And just because I can't end on such a sad note:
> 
> Here is my baby dog playing in agility! So much goes wrong, but so much also goes right!!! Just keep running, even when your dog goes haywire!
> 
> Here is the good, the bad, and the ugly when trialing a new dog!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQuLWolb56o
> 
> It's just agility! This dog trialed a few times a year before. I decided she wasn't ready, so we took a year off. This is our return. She is 3 years old, and clearly, she still isn't ready, but we're close. Look at the fun we have. Notice that I tell her she's brilliant, even when that is very much in question!



I think that dog has springs in her feet. lol! See something like that would be fine...last night Belle was just done...wouldn't do anymore and wanted out of the ring. Mistakes are fine but if she isn't having fun there is no point. I am hoping it was just a really off night, everyone has them I guess. Thanks though...love watching agility videos!!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> I think that dog has springs in her feet. lol! See something like that would be fine...last night Belle was just done...wouldn't do anymore and wanted out of the ring. Mistakes are fine but if she isn't having fun there is no point. I am hoping it was just a really off night, everyone has them I guess. Thanks though...love watching agility videos!!


You just have to realize that they have seen everything, already. There is nothing your dog can do, including freaking out and running out of the ring, that will be new. Dogs do stuff. They get spooked. They stress out. 

Kylie hated agility over the summer. I learned in a hurry that if I want her to be able to be happy and run instead of get sad and kind of vaguely go on her way I have 15- 20 minutes of practice/training/running and then I have to STOP. She was okay for an hour in beginning classes and standing around but as we moved up and did full courses with only 2 or 3 other people? 

No. I have to stop with her. Even if she messes up the second I see a little flagging and preferrably before we're out of there and partying on our own. She doesn't have much tolerance for getting things 'wrong' and... for agility that means I just have to not let her know she got anything wrong and to keep it short and upbeat and positive. But I have had periods where she refused to go near a spot in the building because there were day care dogs going off behind a wall. Or gotten discouraged and refused to leave the start line. Or overwhelmed, and done a 180 and left to seek out reassurance/information from someone NOT ME (and understand- she doesn't like other people) with her head and tail down. 

Biggest learning curve for me was in making it fun for Kylie and letting go of my embarrassment and expectations and take the pressure OFF HER. Which to do well meant I had to take the pressure off ME. We've spent six months building value and fun back into the game. I'm still scared to death about our upcoming trial but I'm going in with low expectations and a primary goal of making sure she has a blast and if that means we sit on the startline, do the first obstacle and then leave to party? OK! If she spooks at the judge and barks and needs to leave? One more obstacle (if at all possible) and party. If she runs out of the ring and jumps into my husbands lap? So be it.

We'll try again for our next run, or the next trial. It's just money - and a silly game I play with my dog for the purpose of fun with my dog.


----------



## Laurelin

Also just remember dogs have off days just like people. Could be a minor issue bugging her even- pulled muscle, minor tummy trouble, who knows? Some days I know I just feel blah too and I am sure dogs do as well. Some days they're just not feeling it. I've had horrible practices and then a great trial or vice versa often.

I heard a story from a judge once and it hit home so hard. She went to bed with 5 agility dogs and the next day had none. Fire. She was the judge that told us without a doubt she'd throw us out if we were harsh on our dogs and to treasure every single run. 

My first trial I did like... 5 obstacles with Mia then ran out. That was it. I've seen people do one and then leave. I've skipped obstacles because they weren't worth stressing my dog. I've had one trial when I was running both dogs that they both were just out of it. I've seen dogs give up and have to be picked up to leave the ring. Dogs run out. Poop in the ring. My dog peed in a tunnel. My dog freaked out about a judge. My dog has had days she walks the course. Some dogs stress a lot at trials. Basically... don't worry. It's happened before. My trainer was telling me and another friend about her first trials with her first dog and leaving in tears. Trust me it happens to EVERYONE. Some days are just not good days.

Just keep it in perspective. It's a fun obstacle course of PVC pipes with your dog. It's not life and death and no big deal if it goes to shambles. If you feel you need to stop then run to the finish and just party with your dog and thank the judge. They'll understand.


----------



## Laurelin

Also other word of wisdom from my trainer talking about the bad trial with her malamute- You can't give up or decide agility is not for your dog because of one bad trial. They're animals, they're not robots. Everyone goes through this kind of stuff.

My best compliment I got from someone was a run Summer and I didn't finish. She was tired and giving up so we ran that last tunnel and had a party. Someone came up and told me I did such a good job reading and handling her. 

Also I can't see trainingjunkie's videos and it makes me sad.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Laurelin said:


> .
> Also I can't see trainingjunkie's videos and it makes me sad.


That's weird. Did you copy and paste the address on your (I have no idea what it's called) browser (?) line? They aren't private so they should pull up.


----------



## dogsule

OMG you guys are great! Thanks so much for all the support!!


I think "I" am having an off day today. Last night my daughter and I were discussing what happened and I was hugging/kissing Belle saying but that's ok and my daughter was like "no, it isn't". She thought it was embarrassing, even though I never felt that way last night cause I understood why Belle was having a problem and the trainer knew she had noise issues. But I have a feeling her attitude somehow got the best of me in my sleep which is why I woke up feeling so bad and worried about the trial. 


You guys have helped me put this in a different perspective though...we will get through this...good or bad and it doesn't matter either way. Thanks!!


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Also I can't see trainingjunkie's videos and it makes me sad.



Hmmm...the links are in a light brown...would that make a difference on your computer. I just clicked on them and they came up.


Edited to say...or do you just mean the link won't come up? I read that wrong, thought you couldn't see the links themselves. LOL!


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> LOL...we do agility inside...it is the hour drive in freezing rain/snow that is concerning. No way would we have outside agility in the winter here in WI.


Same here! only here its rain and flooding, instead of snow.


----------



## CptJack

Kids and very young adults are often embarrassed by everything, and tend to project that like heck onto their parents and everything they do. 

Breathe, 'Let it go', and 'Shake it Off'. 

...and maybe find some upbeat music to listen to. LOL.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Kids and very young adults are often embarrassed by everything, and tend to project that like heck onto their parents and everything they do.
> 
> Breathe, 'Let it go', and 'Shake it Off'.
> 
> ...and maybe find some upbeat music to listen to. LOL.



I took the dogs out in the snow to relax.....Gosh I love this dog!!


IMG_6560a8 by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## trainingjunkie

That is an exceptionally awesome photo!


----------



## CptJack

So, Kylie and I did our first private lesson.

I actually really, really loved it? And it was all kinds of fun in all kinds of ways. I have to say that after six months off all contact obstacles and most training she did pretty well? Really overly enthused about the contact equipment and we had to have a little refresher about stopping, and she acted like she'd never seen a weave pole in her entire life, but overall she did pretty well and had a LOT of fun. 

And since the lesson was only about half an hour she didn't burn out and get all brain fried, so we got speed and enthusiasm the whole time which was a really welcome change, after seeing her stop and go flat in the last group class we did.

Not sure we're actually going to be ready to trial in April but we're trial in April anyway. She needs the experience, and honestly she is just so, so happy to be back out there and doing stuff.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, and I altogether lost her at one point. And by me losing her I mean she left me and started following the instructor around mugging for treats. 

Who IS this dog?

You know, seriously, this is why I'm so blase about her actual performance? She is SO HAPPY and bouncy and WHEEE about agility and her confidence has come so far that I just. This is my ultimate reward, I think. If I start GETTING Qs I will care more but right now, man. She's just so wonderfully happy.


----------



## kadylady

Yay Kylie! So glad she is happy to be back at it! That's the best part 

Zoey, Skye and I had a great day Friday at the CPE trial. Skye did really fantastic hanging out in her crate (quietly!!) when necessary and coming out to socialize as well. I was really proud of how she did, we were there all day so it was a long day and she took it all in stride. 

Zoey did really great, I was so happy with everything. She had a decent amount of speed in most of the runs, she nailed the weaves every time, she had great contacts! I was so happy to have 12 weaves in our standard class, you don't always see 12 weaves in CPE so I was happy about that because that's what has been our nemesis. She rocked them! Absolutely rocked them! Only thing I wish we would have had was an A Frame opportunity, but the judge used the DW twice in standard, so that was different, but she had good contacts on it. Overall I was just happy to see her with confidence and minimal stress. It's been 2 months since we trialed and the last time we were in the ring was our A frame crash. So very very happy. Oh, Q'd in 4/5 classes too. Finally got our pesky Fullhouse level 2 title, so we're in all level 3 now. Hopefully this video works...it's from my Facebook page because I forgot to upload it to youtube. If it doesn't work I'll upload and fix it tonight when I get home. 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=901493539062&pnref=story

Also...


----------



## Laurelin

Congrats Zoey!

So is CptJack the only one doing the Fenzi class? I've read through week 1. Haven't gotten a chance to do the homework yet!


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Congrats Zoey!
> 
> So is CptJack the only one doing the Fenzi class? I've read through week 1. Haven't gotten a chance to do the homework yet!


I eally wanted to take it but i dont have anywhere to practice that isnt under snow


----------



## CptJack

I paid for it. I will probably not be doing much with it until spring. Or at least until 'life settles down some'. But I HAVE IT!


----------



## dogsule

Ooooh, a first happened tonight at agility class. Our first run was the best of the night! That never happens, usually we have to run the course once or twice to get the best one out of us. Having the first run the best is awesome since at a trial you only get the one run. Belle ran so fast it was amazing, especially her weaves. Only mix up on the first run was when she came off the dog walk and needed to make a 180 into the tunnel, she ran back up the dog walk at first, otherwise it was flawless! It was a 14 obstacle course tonight and we always run it twice before the next dog goes. I was so out of breath by the end of the two runs cause Belle was so fast. Second time we were up she didn't go as fast and it wasn't as flawless either. lol!


Also Belle found her voice tonight, she growled at a garbage can. This is a good thing though and I told her good girl and then showed her the garbage can was just fine, lol. She is normally much quieter at class than she is at home and more apt to hide in her kennel if something unnerves her. It is good that she growled at something that scared her for some reason vs just hiding from it.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank was sooo distracted today. Grrr.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Took both Remmy and Lucy to the Agility practice today. Lucy has not done any Agility since 2013 except for the weave poles which I practiced on at home last summer. She was pretty good on all the equipment, did her 2o2o really well but you would swear she had never seen a weave pole in her life. I am going to set up my weave poles in my barn and start to practice them again. Usually it is full of hay but I sold my horse in the fall so now have room in there. It has just had hay stored in it, not a barn the horse comes into. We will be practicing every Saturday at the indoor arena and there is a practice Obedience and Agility trial on the 21st so will try and get them ready for that and Kris in the Obedience.


----------



## Laurelin

So I'm starting Hank on 2x2s. He keeps running into the poles so hard that they snap off the base. O____O

He's 20 lbs. 

What the heck?

Anyone have body awareness ideas for us?


----------



## dogsule

OMG, it is four days until Belle and I run our first trial. I am getting nervous!! Had a decent class last night except for one tunnel where we entered one side in the beginning of the course and supposed to enter the other end later in the course. I could not get Belle to go in the right end the second time through it. She was so focused on the one end...ugh. Hoping to get to a class tomorrow night at the place the trial is at...hopefully it will be better than the last time we went. LOL! Two more trials coming up in March too, will wait until I see how she does this weekend to see if we will enter both or just one.


----------



## CptJack

Hey guys! Molly did agility at agility class tonight!

We're taking foundations again, but meanwhile I really need to work on getting her paw targeting set up so she's not pivoting around to face me once she pounces her front feet on. We're chaining that with our 'get out' commands and she's pretty obviously confused by it. 

Tunnels, though. Man she loved tunnel time.

Next week is more parallel games that we will PROBABLY sit out, but still. WE DID AGILITY.


----------



## kadylady

Good luck this weekend dogsule! Remember...have fun!  

Yay Molly!! Sounds like she is making great progress and having fun too!

Been spending a lot of time proofing weaves with Zoey, adding more distraction, finding what motivates her, looking for more drive through the poles. Well, last night I found a perfect distraction and motivator... all packaged up in one big goofy golden package waiting right in front of my face...


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> LOL...I responded before I saw your reply...yep it is inside and it is the drive that is concerning. That is the problem with planning stuff in the winter in the upper Midwest....you just never know if it will be possible to be driving in it. However I must say we drive in lots of shit other states wouldn't think of. I drove through plenty of snowstorms getting my daughter to her gymnastics meets. lol!


Shoot I didnt even think about the drive! Sorry! I live in deep south texas, where ice doesnt happen and snow definately doesnt. the upper parts of the state might get a few days of winter mix ... but thats usually the extent of it.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> I took the dogs out in the snow to relax.....Gosh I love this dog!!
> 
> 
> IMG_6560a8 by rzyg, on Flickr


It's Krypto, the superdog!!!!! LOL

So many people I see forget that agility is just a GAME, and its SUPPOSED to be fun! sometimes Josefina has off days where she doesnt want to do the teeter, or the weaves, or whatever. Sometimes she misses jumps, other times she just doesnt have her head in the game. Some nights she is ON and looks like she could possibly be ready for trials ... but then that next week ... she has an off week. She is so wishy washy and it DOES annoy me slightly because its not like she doesnt know the drill by now. But she is 5 1/2 years old, she is from questionable parentage, I am sure no one was health tested, and she could have complications from that, who knows.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank and I had a flipping fantastic class today. Nothing too terribly exciting. We're doing baby dog stuff still- bang game, going through tunnels, starting jump work, starting contact work, recalls, tire jump, etc. He was very on today though. Just a lot of fun and upbeat. I was very proud of a couple moments where he started disengaging but then I got him back on his toy.

We also did our first 'sequence' (lol) if you can call it that because it was a tunnel then a jump stand. He was sooo fast. We ended up adding a wrap on the end with him and another jump because my trainer is telling me we need to work more on collection vs FAST with him. I am getting so many compliments on him and how confident and smart and fast he is. Muttly represent! 

There was also a pumi there today and holy want!


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Hank and I had a flipping fantastic class today. Nothing too terribly exciting. We're doing baby dog stuff still- bang game, going through tunnels, starting jump work, starting contact work, recalls, tire jump, etc. He was very on today though. Just a lot of fun and upbeat. I was very proud of a couple moments where he started disengaging but then I got him back on his toy.
> 
> We also did our first 'sequence' (lol) if you can call it that because it was a tunnel then a jump stand. He was sooo fast. We ended up adding a wrap on the end with him and another jump because my trainer is telling me we need to work more on collection vs FAST with him. I am getting so many compliments on him and how confident and smart and fast he is. Muttly represent!
> 
> There was also a pumi there today and holy want!




Awesome!!!


----------



## dogsule

*We got a Q today in JWW!!!*

First up was Standard and Belle started out fine, hit the first six obstacles perfectly then she saw a little girl on the other side of the fence and decided she needed to go say hi, got her back on course and she did two more jumps and ran to where my daughter was...got her back on course again and she finished fine but we had 2 off course and 1 refusal , also over the time so no Q on that. Next up was FAST and I messed her up at the start line and she missed the second obstacle as I was facing the wrong direction but the start line was confusing me as it was angled and I wasn't sure if I could cross it or what but it just went downhill from there. All was fine though as Belle was comfortable so I was ok with everything. She wasn't upset at any noises or trying to escape the ring at all. That was my goal for today. Last up was JWW and she nailed it. We got a perfect score! I thought twice I was going to lose her off course but she came right back when I called her. So proud of my little girl!!

Here is a video from today...


and a pic from at home with the Qualifying ribbon...

IMG_0261a by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations!!! Super job! And a very nice run. Sweet weaves!


----------



## Laurelin

Woohoo! That was a GREAT run! Congrats!  Knew you could do it!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Awesome run, dogsule!!!! Congrats


----------



## Laurelin

Let's see if this works....


----------



## parus

Anyone else have trouble with the dog walk? My Cassius is getting pretty solid on the other obstacles (even the teeter) but the dog walk...he's rather too broad to be able to walk on it easily - his natural stance is wider than the board. He's not afraid exactly - he WILL go over if I guide him closely and walk along side to keep him on - but getting him to consistently hop on and walk across more independently is pretty challenging. Any tips would be welcome.


----------



## trainingjunkie

parus said:


> Anyone else have trouble with the dog walk? My Cassius is getting pretty solid on the other obstacles (even the teeter) but the dog walk...he's rather too broad to be able to walk on it easily - his natural stance is wider than the board. He's not afraid exactly - he WILL go over if I guide him closely and walk along side to keep him on - but getting him to consistently hop on and walk across more independently is pretty challenging. Any tips would be welcome.


Get a board that's 12 inches wide and teach him to run across it while it's laying on the ground. Then he can learn how to run across it without the anxiety over falling entering into the equation. While doing that, teach wobbleboard work or push him around on a skateboard. That way, he can get used to the bounce without the anxiety of falling. After he is good with all of that, re-teach the dog walk.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats dogsule!! Fantastic run!!

Go hank go!! He is the cutest!

I had a really good training session with the girls yesterday. We rented some private floor time as the weather has been icky this weekend and needed to get some crazies out. Zoey officially LOVES her Mootug toy! And it makes me so happy! She's actually chasing it and *gasp*....bringing it back!!! Yesterday she was running around with it tossing it in the air and running through tunnels with it! I was like who are you?! Totally loved it and love seeing her letting loose and less serious. Setup up a couple straight jumps into a tunnel with weaves down the opposite end to work on getting some speed and she was just flying, lots of energy and enthusiasm. We had a lot of fun with that 

(Not-so-Little) Skye thinks everything her sister can do, she can do too. She ran right out on the floor and through a tunnel like ha! Did it!! I have to watch her so careful when off leash because she wants to do the teeter and the DW so bad. We've been doing some basic shaping with the stanchion and she totally gets it. Yesterday we did a few minutes on the stanchion then I was moving some stuff out of the way and letting her run around with her toy, she runs and starts wrapping the stanchion, staring at me, like I did it, where's my cookie?! She is such a smart little goober!

We have a 3 day agility weekend (AKC) coming up this weekend and I'm so excited! My club is hosting and the trial site is about an hour away so I decided to stay in a hotel for Friday night and Saturday night, first time hoteling it with dogs.... should be interesting! I will be thrilled if Zoey is a fraction as good with her weaves as she has been lately. Mostly just excited to hang with good friends and my girls for 3 full days.


----------



## LoMD13

Congrats to you and Belle!!!! Awesome job. 

Zooey and Hank look great too! 

We were supposed to go to a trial last weekend, but I didn't end up making it. There was an actual blizzard out, and I was a day removed from a high fever, so I didnt think it was in the cards for us. I was bummed because she's been remarkably consistent in class, so I was looking forward to seeing if it'd translate into a trial


----------



## Laurelin

Real quick post before I head out to walk papillons. I have more coming.


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> Real quick post before I head out to walk papillons. I have more coming.


 Dang he's speedy.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's a bit more:






Here's my 'blooper reel' lmao.


----------



## So Cavalier

Hank is sooooo much like Baxter!


----------



## kadylady

Quick post as we are heading to bed in our hotel room.... Zoey got her Open Standard title today!!!!! Q #2 yesterday and #3 today!! And completely clean today! We also picked up our first T2B Q today. Threw together the videos. 

http://youtu.be/GkCm5mt5yDI


----------



## So Cavalier

kadylady said:


> Quick post as we are heading to bed in our hotel room.... Zoey got her Open Standard title today!!!!! Q #2 yesterday and #3 today!! And completely clean today! We also picked up our first T2B Q today. Threw together the videos.
> 
> http://youtu.be/GkCm5mt5yDI


Congrats! Awesome day!


----------



## kadylady

We had a phenomenal weekend! I am just chilling on cloud 9 right now, I am so happy with how awesome my girl did this weekend! The last time we did AKC was in November, where she was refusing to weave at all and fell off the Aframe, 0 for 6 in the Q department, lots of stress and pulled on the last day. In between then and now we have been retraining and proofing our contacts and weaves and done one CPE trial (with no AF). This weekend we went 4 for 9 in Q's, picked up her Open Standard title, picked up her first T2B Q and 1 whole point (which I don't care about at all lol) and picked up her 2nd Open JWW Q!!! She completed the weaves all but once (which was all on me since I didn't even ask her to redo them for some reason, bad handler) 3 times with no refusals at all, once with 2 refusals and the rest with just 1 refusal. I was not bothered by incurring a refusal at the weaves the times we did, because once I reset her she completed them, which she was not doing at all in November. And, she held her A Frame contact Every.Single.Time! I really could not be prouder of her right now. The most important thing for me is continuing to boost her confidence in the ring and the improvement really showed this weekend. 

Friday runs (Open Standard Q #2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1ZGcpMNnFQ

Saturday runs (T2B Q, Open Std Q #3 and TITLE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkCm5mt5yDI

Sunday runs (Open JWW Q #2, really awful T2B run that was completely my fault, hadn't had enough caffeine yet, plus her first time running in Excellent!!!!!!!!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylh4Vw_oqv8

One of my goals for the year was to finish her AKC Open titles and I can't believe that it's only February and we are 1 Q away from that goal!! We probably won't get back to AKC until May, we need to start racking up CPE Q's for nationals.

Also...Zoey hated staying in the hotel. She was so nervous and anxious and was jumpy and shaking at every little noise. I ended up giving her melatonin both nights to help her relax. When we would get to the trial site in the morning she would look around, stretch, and then get all happy and bouncy like "I love this place, it's so much better than that other scary place!" silly girl, it certainly didn't effect her runs. Skye on the other hand, loved the hotel. She thought it was great. I really just had such a fun weekend with my girls.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Awesome kadylady! Sounds like you all had a blast!! Fancy ribbons Zoey. 

Man oh man do I wish I had video of us in class tonight. Kairi and I both were on fire. We are learning all kinds of new moves and it is a lot of fun. Our distance work is getting so good and I'm super giddy about it. My handling has come a long way and I didn't realize it until tonight. Just one of those good feel nights. <3


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had our Training Match on Saturday. Ran Lucy over the course a few times. She did well, is very fast but has a good solid stay so I can take a good lead-off. She held her 2o2o on all the contacts. Still needs work on her weaves but expected that as she has only done them a few times at practice this year. My sister's Rat Terrier is coming along really well now after being a hard dog to get started.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Huge congratulations to all!!! What a great group! Continued best wishes and fast, clean runs!


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Quick post as we are heading to bed in our hotel room.... Zoey got her Open Standard title today!!!!! Q #2 yesterday and #3 today!! And completely clean today! We also picked up our first T2B Q today. Threw together the videos.
> 
> http://youtu.be/GkCm5mt5yDI


Awesome....nice runs!


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> We had a phenomenal weekend! I am just chilling on cloud 9 right now, I am so happy with how awesome my girl did this weekend! The last time we did AKC was in November, where she was refusing to weave at all and fell off the Aframe, 0 for 6 in the Q department, lots of stress and pulled on the last day. In between then and now we have been retraining and proofing our contacts and weaves and done one CPE trial (with no AF). This weekend we went 4 for 9 in Q's, picked up her Open Standard title, picked up her first T2B Q and 1 whole point (which I don't care about at all lol) and picked up her 2nd Open JWW Q!!! She completed the weaves all but once (which was all on me since I didn't even ask her to redo them for some reason, bad handler) 3 times with no refusals at all, once with 2 refusals and the rest with just 1 refusal. I was not bothered by incurring a refusal at the weaves the times we did, because once I reset her she completed them, which she was not doing at all in November. And, she held her A Frame contact Every.Single.Time! I really could not be prouder of her right now. The most important thing for me is continuing to boost her confidence in the ring and the improvement really showed this weekend.
> 
> Friday runs (Open Standard Q #2)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1ZGcpMNnFQ
> 
> Saturday runs (T2B Q, Open Std Q #3 and TITLE)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkCm5mt5yDI
> 
> Sunday runs (Open JWW Q #2, really awful T2B run that was completely my fault, hadn't had enough caffeine yet, plus her first time running in Excellent!!!!!!!!)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylh4Vw_oqv8
> 
> One of my goals for the year was to finish her AKC Open titles and I can't believe that it's only February and we are 1 Q away from that goal!! We probably won't get back to AKC until May, we need to start racking up CPE Q's for nationals.
> 
> Also...Zoey hated staying in the hotel. She was so nervous and anxious and was jumpy and shaking at every little noise. I ended up giving her melatonin both nights to help her relax. When we would get to the trial site in the morning she would look around, stretch, and then get all happy and bouncy like "I love this place, it's so much better than that other scary place!" silly girl, it certainly didn't effect her runs. Skye on the other hand, loved the hotel. She thought it was great. I really just had such a fun weekend with my girls.


Congrats!! Look at all those ribbons!! All of our trials are three day events however my first one (and my second and third coming up) I just do one day. Maybe this summer I will go ahead and do two days. At least I won't have to stay overnight or anything as it is only an hour away.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Real quick post before I head out to walk papillons. I have more coming.


Wow are your weaves offset or in a line...you cannot hardly see Hank weave...he is so fast. There was a dog at our first agility trial, a large dog and he ran the weaves in a straight line just knocking the poles out of the way. I hadn't seen a dog run them like that before. I know larger dogs usually move the poles but they still weave usually, this one didn't weave at all except maybe his head to get ready to knock them out of his way...he was fast too.


----------



## kadylady

Thanks everyone!! Still smiling from our great weekend! And finally caught back up on sleep.



dogsule said:


> Congrats!! Look at all those ribbons!! All of our trials are three day events however my first one (and my second and third coming up) I just do one day. Maybe this summer I will go ahead and do two days. At least I won't have to stay overnight or anything as it is only an hour away.


Yeah, most of the time I only do one day, occasionally 2, but since my club was putting on the trial I was there working all 3 days too. Trial site was only an hour away for me and 1 or 2 days I wouldn't stay overnight but I'm really glad I had the room for being there all 3 days.

Also, seeing Zoey's reaction to the hotel made me glad to be doing things like this with Skye while she's so young.


----------



## Sibe

Awww this dog was so close! Cav doing great through the weaves, then bonks the last one with his head. 
http://i.imgur.com/MXF65JI.gif


----------



## kadylady

......*sigh*........at least 6 weeks of no agility for us.... Zoey fractured a toe this week, probably while ripping and tearing with the puppy in the backyard on all of the crappy snow. She came up lame Thursday afternoon, I thought she may have pulled a muscle in her shoulder area. Scheduled a vet appointment for this morning just to be safe since we are going on vacation soon. Vet manipulated her toes, did X-rays and sure enough, a very small fracture (less than a quarter across the bone) on this inside of the her last toe. Leash walks only for 4 weeks then we will do another set of X-rays to check it, vet said plan for 6 weeks of no agility.  I am glad that it's not worse, also glad it's not a recurring shoulder issue from her fall, but still... super bummed about another injury. She is so sad when she can't do stuff.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> ......*sigh*........at least 6 weeks of no agility for us.... Zoey fractured a toe this week, probably while ripping and tearing with the puppy in the backyard on all of the crappy snow. She came up lame Thursday afternoon, I thought she may have pulled a muscle in her shoulder area. Scheduled a vet appointment for this morning just to be safe since we are going on vacation soon. Vet manipulated her toes, did X-rays and sure enough, a very small fracture (less than a quarter across the bone) on this inside of the her last toe. Leash walks only for 4 weeks then we will do another set of X-rays to check it, vet said plan for 6 weeks of no agility.  I am glad that it's not worse, also glad it's not a recurring shoulder issue from her fall, but still... super bummed about another injury. She is so sad when she can't do stuff.


So sorry about Zoey!!


----------



## dogsule

So our second agility trial is this weekend. My current agility trainer will not be there this time so I am on my own. Last time since she had a Novice dog she walked the course with me and gave me tips. I am excited and just a bit nervous for this weekend. This club has it set up weird so all the Fast Classes run first, then T2B, then Excellent Classes both STD and JWW then it goes to Open and Novice STD/JWW so we have to be there early but then have a big time span of nothing to do. Last trial and the time I just watched a trial they had the all the Excellent classes first then FAST classes and then went on from there with open and novice so the excellent people could clear out if they wanted. Ran better that way I think plus I didn't need to be there so early that way. We will need to leave our house by 7AM and probably won't get home until 5PM this weekend whereas the other time we didn't leave until 9:30 and we could have waited until 10:30 but I wanted to get there early. They do have a nice fenced in dog area though so I will probably take Belle out there and let her run for a bit. It is supposed to be sunny and around 30 so it will feel quite warm! 

Then the following weekend there is a show n go, would love to go to that but not sure if I can. Then the 22nd is another trial, this ones doesn't have FAST which is ok with me.

How does T2B go, it was confusing reading the rules about it so I didn't enter it at all.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I wish I knew how to embed videos. Anyways here we are practicing: Agility

I can't believe how far we've come. She's really starting to drive through her weaves which is pretty fun! Also.. been using more tug in class as a reward. It has been awesome to relieve some of her frustration when the other dogs are running. I have no idea why I didn't try it sooner.


----------



## Sibe

To embed a youtube video, do


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Thankyou, Sibe.


----------



## LoMD13

Poor Zoe! I hope she's feeling better soon. 

You and Kairi look great!! 

Our next trial isn't until April, we are doing pairs for the first time which should be fun!


----------



## Laurelin

Kairi looks fantastic! She is also much much smaller than I envision.


----------



## elrohwen

I think we're *finally* going to be able to take private lessons in agility. Now we can work on Watson's zooming issues isntead of just trying to push through the class exercises and keep him from running up to all of the other dogs. It's partially stress, and it's partially that he's an idiot who likes to run around and I think he needs to get that out of his system in a lesson or two and then learn that settling down to work is actually more fun. Trying to control his every move (treat before and after every jump, not letting him do anything without my input) was clearly not making things better. If I can get him to work with me consistently out in our woods (in a fenced area) which is one of the most exciting places ever, I hope we can figure out this agility thing. I don't care if we never compete, because I don't like shows that much anyway, but I would love to be able to take classes and actually have fun, instead of leaving frustrated and tearful every time because my dog is completely out of control.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Thank you! Kairi really is a small Aussie. She topped out at 19' and about 32lbs. I don't really blame anyone for mistaking her for a mini which I get often. Oh well.. her size and lightweight structure are great for what we are doing. 

elrohwen - I'm sure with time, maturity and practice Watson is going to do great! Best of luck in the private classes.


----------



## lauren17

Kairi looks great! She's the perfect size for agility, I had hoped Roo would be about that size like his mom but he won't quit growing! I'm anxious to get back to agility with Roo, our place closes for the winter


----------



## dogsule

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I wish I knew how to embed videos. Anyways here we are practicing: Agility
> 
> I can't believe how far we've come. She's really starting to drive through her weaves which is pretty fun! Also.. been using more tug in class as a reward. It has been awesome to relieve some of her frustration when the other dogs are running. I have no idea why I didn't try it sooner.


Great run!!



LoMD13 said:


> Poor Zoe! I hope she's feeling better soon.
> 
> You and Kairi look great!!
> 
> Our next trial isn't until April, we are doing pairs for the first time which should be fun!


What is pairs?


----------



## dogsule

So last night I took Belle to the place that does the trials for a class again for a class. At first she again had the deer in the headlights look, ears flat and the get me out of here look when I got her in the ring. However she calmed down nicely and got more comfortable that she has before at class there. Funny thing was though during the runs we did (they always have a standard course and a jumpers course set up) she was like hmmmm, do I want to do this or not. Standard course was more fun and she ran pretty well there but was still a bit of an airhead not paying attention. Jumpers course she was like well whatever...I will just walk this one. What a doofus!! We did manage to get one halfway run on that one. At least the weaves she did well and with enthusiasum, the rest was like whatever...She even stopped in a tunnel which she has never done before. Normally tunnels are for barreling through. Tonight it was stop an sniff, then turn around and come out the other end. I was just happy though that she was a bit more comfortable there. Trial there this weekend!!

At our normal class on Monday she met a huge 5mo old Amercian Bulldog/Cane Corso/Mastiff mix. She was not real sure about him at all, they were loose in the building along with just two other english cockers that Belle likes and knows well. If the bulldog mix tried to sniff her Belle would run by me, she did not want him sniffing her at all. Then she climbed on the teeter and he came over and she growled at him! She was more on his level when she was up there which I am guessing is why she wasn't so intimidated by his size. He is huge, looks like a full grown American Bulldog right now.


----------



## Laurelin

dogsule said:


> Wow are your weaves offset or in a line...you cannot hardly see Hank weave...he is so fast. There was a dog at our first agility trial, a large dog and he ran the weaves in a straight line just knocking the poles out of the way. I hadn't seen a dog run them like that before. I know larger dogs usually move the poles but they still weave usually, this one didn't weave at all except maybe his head to get ready to knock them out of his way...he was fast too.


Sorry I missed this! But yes, our weaves are not completely closed yet. I'd say they're about 2-3" open right now. He's learning them FAST. I had thought maybe the issue with Summer's weaves was me but Hank is picking them up no trouble. We're kind of doing a combo of 2x2s and channels.

All I know is USDAA pairs. Not sure about other venues. I've never run it but basically one dog runs half the course then hands a baton to the second dog's handler and they run the second half of the course.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> All I know is USDAA pairs. Not sure about other venues. I've never run it but basically one dog runs half the course then hands a baton to the second dog's handler and they run the second half of the course.


Interesting...what are the advantages to this? Do you know ahead of time which obstacles each dog will be doing?


----------



## Laurelin

As far as I know it's just to earn another title. It may have something to do with qualifying to Cynosport too, I don't know since we've never really tried to make it to regionals or cyno... I don't know the requirements for all the weird classes. I just have done the basics- standard, jumpers, snookers, gamblers. Steeplechase, pairs, performance jumpers, etc all confuse the heck out of me. I guess one step at a time.  It took me long enough to understand snookers.

But yes, they do pick which half the course each dog will run before they run. The dogs can be different jump heights too and you can't get all your Qs with the same partner to get your title. You can either choose your partner before entering or you can just do luck of the draw.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> As far as I know it's just to earn another title. It may have something to do with qualifying to Cynosport too, I don't know since we've never really tried to make it to regionals or cyno... I don't know the requirements for all the weird classes. I just have done the basics- standard, jumpers, snookers, gamblers. Steeplechase, pairs, performance jumpers, etc all confuse the heck out of me. I guess one step at a time.  It took me long enough to understand snookers.
> 
> But yes, they do pick which half the course each dog will run before they run. The dogs can be different jump heights too and you can't get all your Qs with the same partner to get your title. You can either choose your partner before entering or you can just do luck of the draw.


Yeah, we do AKC agility so I only know FAST, Standard, JWW and I guess I will see T2B this weekend. Didn't enter the time to beat though, will just watch it.


----------



## Laurelin

My favorite of the Cruft's agility so far! (junior handler finals!) It's 30 minutes but worth a watch imo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK-7BPDwp3Y

Still loads of agility to come the next few days on the live feed! Finals on Sunday. Tomorrow has some of the regular agility, the ABC (anything but a Collie) finals, and the rescue agility demo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJYxr4rHEKA


----------



## Laurelin

It is interesting to me how many of the medium dogs over there are cocker spaniels.


----------



## LoMD13

Pairs is awesome! (It is the USDAA a one, that's all we do besides teacup occasionally) We did a little practice run in class today and it was really fast paced and just a lot of fun. It's got its pros and cons like anything. The advantages are that you can really play to your strengths. Lola for example nails all of her contacts, hardly ever goes off course or knocks a bar. At trials though, she can be a bit on the slow side. Our partner is BLAZING fast, but has trouble with contacts. So me and Lola will pick the side with tricky contacts, and our partner will run the snappier faster side. The downside is that there's a lot more commotion, one of the dogs has to wait in the ring while the other one is running, and they need to pass by each other in the baton exchange without getting distracted. I think I'd have a tough time doing it with another little dog because Lola has a hard time resisting puppies and other little dogs. 

Performance jumpers is just jumpers with lower jump heights right? We've got our novice title in that, so Lo is in advanced for the first time next trial. 

The only one I haven't done is steeplechase. We're going to be doing that in class though in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## CptJack

We have trials at the end of April and end of May. 

I just printed out the premium for the April one, and practices for it start Thursday.

I'm scared, y'all, but I kind of feel like I HAVE to do this. At least once. 

DID I MENTION I AM SCARED?


----------



## Laurelin

LoMD13 said:


> Pairs is awesome! (It is the USDAA a one, that's all we do besides teacup occasionally) We did a little practice run in class today and it was really fast paced and just a lot of fun. It's got its pros and cons like anything. The advantages are that you can really play to your strengths. Lola for example nails all of her contacts, hardly ever goes off course or knocks a bar. At trials though, she can be a bit on the slow side. Our partner is BLAZING fast, but has trouble with contacts. So me and Lola will pick the side with tricky contacts, and our partner will run the snappier faster side. The downside is that there's a lot more commotion, one of the dogs has to wait in the ring while the other one is running, and they need to pass by each other in the baton exchange without getting distracted. I think I'd have a tough time doing it with another little dog because Lola has a hard time resisting puppies and other little dogs.
> 
> Performance jumpers is just jumpers with lower jump heights right? We've got our novice title in that, so Lo is in advanced for the first time next trial.
> 
> The only one I haven't done is steeplechase. We're going to be doing that in class though in the next couple of weeks.


I meant performance speed jumping not P1 jumpers. I believe they are two different things. 

CptJack, y'all will do fine! It's really not scary at all.


----------



## CptJack

Thanks, Laurelin. I'm sure I just need to get through it once to be okay.

Weird question, but does anyone have a clue why some of the weave poles in 2X2 sets we're seeing on the practice field are the size of coke cans? I am HOPING those don't make an appearance at the trial, because Kylie legitimately seems to not recognize them as weave poles. :/


----------



## Laurelin

I have never seen huge weave poles before.

I was nervous pre-trial but when we got to the line I realized it was just like running my dog any other time. I think once you get there the nerves will go away.


----------



## dogsule

Well we had our second agility trial on Saturday. I think this was the how not to do a trial day for Belle. LOL! She was very comfortable there, maybe a bit too comfortable. Out of the ring she wanted to go say hi to every dog she saw, in the ring she wanted to say high to the bar setters, the judge etc. Ugh! Very unfocused but that tail was just a waggin!! 
The STD course was the best but she went off course twice and had two refusals, one was the weaves went through fine until the last pole when she decided to sniff the ground and missed it. Then she back weaved, then started on the wrong side and then finally did it correctly. She got a 76 on that run (I think was 2 seconds over time too), you need 85 to Qualify so it wasn't horrible but not what I wanted of course. She just wasn't focused on me at all on Saturday. 

Next trial is the 21st. Will see how she does at this one before I decide if I want to do the April 25th trial. If she is unfocused on the 21st again I think we need to work more on her focus before we trial again, however I know this is common in Novice. It is hard though cause you cannot grab them in the ring and tell them to focus like you want to. LOL! I know one thing I really need to work on is being able to send her over a jump without me running along side the jump, right now she really doesn't want to do that. 

Oh and to top things off I left her leash on when I kenneled her once on Saturday and she chewed her nice leather leash in two!! Ugh!!


----------



## CptJack

Molly finished foundations, take 1 tonight. Take 2 starts the 31st. Truthfully? She was fine. She did better than a lot of the other dogs. She tied for the win of the distance handling competition, and the other winner was an 8 year old, already familiar with assorted sports, do. Molly consistently does everything that's asked of her. 

Ultimately, though, I really want better foundations with her and I want the opportunity to work with her around another group of dogs. Even outside that, she's 9 months old. She won't even be a year old by the time she finishes taking foundations the second time (she'll turn 1 like a week later). The other thing is, that in spite of her doing everything? I don't feel like I have ANY control over what she's doing. Some of this is being so used to Kylie, and the SPEED and intensity at which Molly goes. Some of it's that Molly just flings herself at whatever is in front of her, with maximum intensity and minimal deliberation. She'd kill herself on real equipment, even if growth plates weren't a thing. 

Kylie wise - We have practice for the trial Thursday. I don't think we're going to make this one, but maybe. I'd like to hit as many as I can before the trial at the end of next month. I'm not really excited about it to be honest, but I'll probably be more into it when I get out there with Kylie and we do some things.


----------



## Laurelin

For those curious Fenzi AG110 is really really really really good. Really really good stuff.


----------



## Laurelin

I just realized that Oklahoma is hosting AKC agility nationals again in 2016! A year away but I'm already kind of pumped.


----------



## Laurelin

Threadles!

Testing out a new method involving turning my shoulders. Seems to be working with Hank. Summer just needed an arm across me to call her in. Video'd to see what he was doing when I did both.

Also really awesome accidental rebound at :07 lol


----------



## CptJack

All right, signed up for April. MIGHT do touch 'n go on Saturday, but might also not (signed up, I'll eat the 11.00 if I need to) and both Standard runs on Sunday. Also running her skilled, because I don't think getting her measured would set the stage for a great day and I don't want her jumping 12", anyway. Hopefully Saturday gives me a good idea of what to expect for Sunday and I can not make a COMPLETE fool of myself. Maybe. Possibly. I hope.

Ironically, I could not care less how Kylie does. Just me.


----------



## LoMD13

I don't like Lola jumping 12 either, that's what they want us to jump in USDAA. Wish they'd add an 8! 

We had a really fun class yesterday. We did a gamblers run, and Lola did pretty good with that. She didn't get the gamble because we are SO bad with distance. She knows that "Go" means to drive forward, so she will go ahead of me a ways, and then instead of just taking the obstacle, she'll turn around and yell at me. I only had to take one small step over the gamble line, so we've made SOME progress with it. She was really fast and enthusiastic tonight, so that was great to see. She yelled at me after every weave pole too though. Girl was just in a yelling sort of mood!


----------



## Laurelin

Hank has 6 closed weaves. Already. Great entries so far too. 

Ok so I must say I feel better about my ability to train. I had thought I SUCKED at teaching weaves because it took 2 years to get mildly lured weaves on Summer. But I think it was mostly Summer. lol (Love her but weaves are not her strong point).

Now we did find out Hank is afraid of the teeter. It took us a bit to realize because the bang game and wobble board and such went well but he's ok with the noise. He is not ok with the motion though. He will jump and slam it down but will jump off immediately. We finally realized it's not him just being wild, he's trying to minimize his time on the teeter.

I am thinking about actually buying a teeter.


----------



## elrohwen

I want to whine for a second about my inability to find private agility lessons anywhere. I looked for a place up north for months and couldn't find anything available evenings or weekends. I've started looking back near home and still no luck. The place we took classes seemed promising and the woman I talked to could do weekends, but when I asked her to pick a date she came back and said only Thursdays at 10am will work. Seriously? Not a single other time? I was even maybe willing to do something early in the morning or late afternoon and skip a little work, but I can't just skip work in the middle of the day.

So then I found another place and sent them emails and nobody ever responded. It's a bigger place with multiple trainers and I used the contact form on their website, but nothing.

First it seems strange to me that it's so impossible to work out private lessons that are not in the middle of the work day. And two, it makes me so mad when peope just don't respond to emails, especially via an official training site contact. As a professional I always respond to emails within a day or so and I find it so strange when dog professionals just don't. It's really not hard to hit "reply" and write one or two lines. I just don't know who to ask anymore and when I do find someone to email I kind of assume they will never respond anyway. Watson does not fit into regular classes right now and if we can't find private lessons we pretty much have to give up agility forever, which is stupid. I'm willing to travel and willing to pay money - why is this so hard?


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Sorry for the crap you are going through with that elrohwen. I've been to 2 different facilities and have had 0 issues with getting in contact with people. I understand busy lives but geeze..

I'm debating signing up for a mock CPE trial. I can't decide if I'm ready.. even for a fake one.


----------



## elrohwen

The one trainer who came back with "10am on Thursdays only" said that we might be able to work something out in her yard when things get warm/dry again. So yay! Maybe it will work out.

I've also emailed our usual trainer to set something up. She has jumps and things, and I'm signing up for the FDSA agility handling class (I'll have to buy the past lectures for Part 1), so maybe we can work through that if Watson will focus.


----------



## Laurelin

Ugh that is so sucky. I feel so fortunate to have found the place we go to.



I just wanted to post Hank's weave progress!


----------



## elrohwen

Woohoo! Go Hank!


----------



## MrsBoats

I've taken a little hiatus from DF because I haven't been all gung ho on training because the weather has completely sucked this winter. Been working on Utility stuff with Lars....but agility came to a grinding halt. But, I've started to take Ocean back out now that spring is sort of here. 

We did run thrus this past Wednesday and I was pretty happy with O. I laugh at him on two legs walking with me to do the weave poles the second time. All I can think of is a car revving his engine...let me at those POLES!!!! We've done some run thrus off and on the past couple of weeks...but this week I was able to get video. His first agility trial is USDAA the first week of April.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> The one trainer who came back with "10am on Thursdays only" said that we might be able to work something out in her yard when things get warm/dry again. So yay! Maybe it will work out.
> 
> I've also emailed our usual trainer to set something up. She has jumps and things, and I'm signing up for the FDSA agility handling class (I'll have to buy the past lectures for Part 1), so maybe we can work through that if Watson will focus.


Hope it works out for you! It is hard to just get in normal classes around here. Many years ago I had Maya in basic obedience and then wanted to do agility afterwards. The last class of obedience is an introduction to agility equipment and they have a sign up sheet for agility classes. Never heard from them again though. This time when I had Belle in obedience and I signed up for agility, I emailed the kennel club (who has the classes) when I didn't hear anything. Still didn't hear anything so I emailed one of the trainers from the obedience class and asked her to find out why no one contacted me. I was really ticked off a bit that no one could get back to me. Luckily though she did and I am still not sure if it was the agility trainer that didn't respond or not but either way we have been in classes ever since. I know Maya would have been good at it too but now she is almost 9 and has had two back issues (although a few years back now) so I am leary about putting her in class.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Ugh that is so sucky. I feel so fortunate to have found the place we go to.
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to post Hank's weave progress!


Awesome! I am proud of Belle's weaves too as she gets complimented a lot on them. Her weaves are totally due to me getting her to do them before and after beginning agility classes as it wasn't something they worked on in beginners for some reason but I was determined to get her to do them.


----------



## dogsule

Well we competed in our third trial on Saturday. Belle did much much better this time with not having to run around and sniff everything and everyone. We Q'd in the Novice STD course and would have in the Novice JWW also if she hadn't taken a tunnel instead of a jump. Her courses weren't perfect, she blew a tunnel entrance (not sure how that happened) in STD and then took me a bit to get her back into it although I have learned I have to take her further back to start over. Then she started on the wrong side of the weaves but I think that was my fault as I crowded her a bit because of how she came off the teeter...normally I have to stand and the end of the teeter and beg her to get it to come down and she will almost lay down on it to make it go down (she isn't real fond of the bang yet) but this time as I got into place she ran up and made it bang and came down so quickly I wasn't quite ready for it and crowded her over to the weaves. It was fun though to have her more focused on me this time. Next trial isn't until April 25th now though...so hopefully she will remember her ring etiquette!!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats dogsule!

Zoey gets X-rays for the fractured toe on Friday....we are both getting antsy. Sent in entries for trials at the end of April and beginning of May so crossing fingers...


----------



## CptJack

Agility practice tonight, for upcoming trial. 

She did things she'd never seen before (barrels, 12 weaves in a row) beautiful. She nailed her contacts. She refused tunnels left, right, center, and repeatedly and at one point opted for climbing on top of them. The heck, dog?

Guess we'll be doing some more of that for a while.

Positive side of things? I'm no longer nervous. If I can get her butt through tunnels (?!) we can run a standard course. We can certainly manage a novice one without looking too dumb. Besides, she was SO happy out there that I just. Can't care.


----------



## CptJack

So, for now and until after the trial at the end of May it looks like we're going to be doing this thing consistently twice a week.

For April the practices are Thursdays, so it'll be Molly on Tuesdays for foundations, take 2, and reactivity work and then Kylie on Thursdays for trial practice. To be honest, I'll probably take Molly to some of the trial practices. Heck, I might even take BUG to one. Then trial the 25-26th. Then May will have its own practice schedule and then the two day trial at the end of that. 

I'm going to put Kylie in 3 runs over two days for April - 2 standard and a touch 'n go. I'll figure out May closer to being there. 

Either way, though, I am no longer at all nervous about this. I guess just hanging out with people and realizing 'meh, still agility' killed any nervousness I had brewing.


----------



## CptJack

Spammity Spam Spam: 

I have a question:

Do I need to insist Kylie do 2o2o, as opposed to stopping for a second with all 4 feet at the end? For whatever reason she seems to find the actual 2o2o pretty uncomfortable. I don't think it's a physical issue, exactly, but she really seems to hate that position and I'm feeling like a jerk for insisting she give me that extra inch. 

I mean no one does this and I'm sure there's a reason but I don't know what it is.


----------



## Kyllobernese

When I first started Agility with Remmy, I did not even know what 2o2o was so he has always done a running contact. With Lucy, I started her right off with a 2o2o and she is really good at it but then with Kris, my Dobe, maybe because my other dogs are smaller, I seem to have more trouble getting her to stop and do a 2o2o so as long as she is pausing, (not leaping off) I do not insist on her doing a proper 2o2o. I will have to see if that is a mistake or not. As the main object is for them to hit the contact if they are doing it every time it should be alright.


----------



## CptJack

Honestly? I should have done running contacts with Kylie. Asking her to come to a full stop on the agility course was horrible for her. It's not such an issue anymore, and I now wonder how much was forcing her into that little bit extra lower so she was 2o2o. Like she's been checked out, she's not hurting, but she does NOT like that position.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> Do I need to insist Kylie do 2o2o, as opposed to stopping for a second with all 4 feet at the end? For whatever reason she seems to find the actual 2o2o pretty uncomfortable. I don't think it's a physical issue, exactly, but she really seems to hate that position and I'm feeling like a jerk for insisting she give me that extra inch.
> 
> I mean no one does this and I'm sure there's a reason but I don't know what it is.


I have seen people with smaller dogs do what looks like a 4 on type behavior. I think contact behavior really depends on what works best for your individual dog and the most important part is making the criteria clear to the dog and following through with it. 

I suspect that 1 reason for a 2o2o vs 4 on is that the 2o2o requires the dog to go all the way to the end of the contact zone, therefore driving all the way to the end, versus slowing way down and creeping to the end, losing precious time. I've seen a LOT of dogs do that, slow way up before the contact area and then tiptoe into the space. Zoey will do that a little on the DW still as I hasn't proofed it as much as I have the AF, which she drives all the way to the bottom on very well.


----------



## Laurelin

With really small not super fast dog I just do a 'running contact'. I use quotes because it's not like doing one with a big dog that you have to train to stride through the contact. If she's not prone to jumping off that's what I'd do.

Hank is going to need 2o/2o. He likes to leap off the left side of contacts.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> With really small not super fast dog I just do a 'running contact'. I use quotes because it's not like doing one with a big dog that you have to train to stride through the contact. If she's not prone to jumping off that's what I'd do.
> 
> Hank is going to need 2o/2o. He likes to leap off the left side of contacts.


I have to give her some sort of verbal for her to slow or pause because I'm not superfast or experienced either, and I need some kind of time to collect her and move on with the course but also because if she's pushed for speed too hard she WILL leap from above the contact zone (that was our problem before let me climb the tunnels, kay?) but I'm thinking about just asking her to slow down.

I'm kind of on my own at this stage and weirdly it's pretty freeing to be able to experiment out there and see what I can get to work for her. 

And yeah, Molly's going to have to have 2X2. She's just really, really, too flaily about everything for me to trust anything else.


----------



## kadylady

The reason Zoey was struggling with her contacts (2o2o criteria) was because she didn't fully understand the expectations. I went back to the beginning and "retrained" the 2o2o that I wanted and stuck firm to my criteria and my expectations and made it completely black and white for her. And it's clear to me now that she fully understands the behavior on the AF, but I need to work and proof with the DW a little more. I spent a lot more time on the AF though because, well because of her fall. 

It sounds like Kylie may not fully understand what you want her to do there and if she's anything like Zoey, that is super stressful and demotivating. If it were me and I wanted the stopped contact I would probably go back and retrain a 2o2o, with clear, black and white criteria. 

Skye will also have a 2o2o criteria.


----------



## CptJack

You know, I was looking at an old video of us in Beginner agility where we were still using targets at the obstacles and the trainer was 'catching' Kylie with the treat on the target and luring her down the final bit of the contact zone AND it looks like she never had 2 off to get to the target with her nose, anyway. So I kind of suspect that she *doesn't* really get the criteria, but also that what she does get is just 'stop at the end'. 

I'll work on it some more as we go, and I have better access to the contact equipment with all the practices in the run up to the trials. They're all basically just really informal show 'n goes, so I'll have better chance to poke at it. 

Tunnels first, though. Well concurrent but as a priority because I have no idea what happened there.


----------



## Laurelin

We need trial videos btw! I really really regret not getting videos our first time out.


----------



## CptJack

I am HOPING I can get someone to video and/or photograph both the trial runs and some of these practice sessions - the practices will be easiest since it's so casual. I don't know if it'll happen, though, unless I can coerce another competitor/friend. My husband WILL go, but he kind of has to, um, hide because he's REALLY confusing and distracting for her.

But yeah, I plan on video/photos/whatever if I can wrangle it.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> We need trial videos btw! I really really regret not getting videos our first time out.


YES! Definitely!! Must have Kylie agility videos!!


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> Tunnels first, though. Well concurrent but as a priority because I have no idea what happened there.


Zoey went through what I'm calling a "tunnel aversion" phase last year about this time. I rewarded the ever loving heck out of those tunnels, used targets at the end, started throwing food every time she came out, did lots of sends and major rewards. She's been much drivey-er about them ever since. And I still randomly jackpot them because it's just not her favorite thing. She would much rather jump or climb.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie has never loved tunnels, but once she understood them she never refused them. Going back and rebuilding value and treats are the plan, pretty much. She's just much more into the, yeah, climbing and jumping. She sucks to contact equipment like mad. Tunnels just don't do it for her. It's okay, I'm not too stressed, I just need to do more feeding and playing.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I would do a running contact with a dog that is not a million times faster than me. If stopping demotivates your dog, then I definitely wouldn't bother with the 2o2o. 

Kairi has a 2o2o because she is crazy. It is also hilarious to watch her stop on a dime and flail her back legs around trying to stay on that contact.


----------



## Laurelin

Speaking of contacts, I got my contact trainer in the mail yesterday! and as we were stuck inside because of tornados we played around a little. I'm starting to see him make conscious decisions about his 2o/2o. Yay! Now, if I try to go fast it is out the window still but I like what I'm seeing as far as his decision making skills.

Also, AKC nationals starts tomorrow in Reno. I wish they streamed them online like they do world team tryouts. I don't guess they do though. I'm following my friend who is there via facebook but it would be cool to get to see the runs online and keep up real time on how they're doing!


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Also, AKC nationals starts tomorrow in Reno. I wish they streamed them online like they do world team tryouts. I don't guess they do though. I'm following my friend who is there via facebook but it would be cool to get to see the runs online and keep up real time on how they're doing!


It is streamed live!! By Four Legged Flix! I watched last year.

https://www.facebook.com/4leggedflix

https://www.youtube.com/user/4LeggedFlix


----------



## Laurelin

Oh THANK YOU!    

Made my day.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Oh THANK YOU!
> 
> Made my day.


Welcome


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I am HOPING I can get someone to video and/or photograph both the trial runs and some of these practice sessions - the practices will be easiest since it's so casual. I don't know if it'll happen, though, unless I can coerce another competitor/friend. My husband WILL go, but he kind of has to, um, hide because he's REALLY confusing and distracting for her.
> 
> But yeah, I plan on video/photos/whatever if I can wrangle it.


At our trials someone is always asking someone else to video for them. I offer for two people all the time cause they come by themselves. I always bring my daughter with me so she films for me. I buy her a book to keep her happy since she spends her whole day with me. LOL! Since our last Q wasn't real pretty, I didn't post the video.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Agility practice tonight, for upcoming trial.
> 
> She did things she'd never seen before (barrels, 12 weaves in a row) beautiful. She nailed her contacts. She refused tunnels left, right, center, and repeatedly and at one point opted for climbing on top of them. The heck, dog?
> 
> Guess we'll be doing some more of that for a while.
> 
> Positive side of things? I'm no longer nervous. If I can get her butt through tunnels (?!) we can run a standard course. We can certainly manage a novice one without looking too dumb. Besides, she was SO happy out there that I just. Can't care.


So are you practicing where the trial will be held? That is out biggest problem is that we don't get to practice much (if at all) at the place the trial is held at which makes things newer there for Belle and for her wanting to sniff things. She did well at the last one though with not sniffing or visiting. I guess that is what Novice is all about though...getting them used to trialing. I would love to be able to practice twice a week. We only have once a week practice. I am going to have my husband make me some jumps though cause I really need work on being able to send Belle over a jump vs, running along side of her as she goes over.


----------



## dogsule

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I would do a running contact with a dog that is not a million times faster than me. If stopping demotivates your dog, then I definitely wouldn't bother with the 2o2o.
> 
> Kairi has a 2o2o because she is crazy. It is also hilarious to watch her stop on a dime and flail her back legs around trying to stay on that contact.


Most Border Collies that I have seen at the trials stop at the bottom of the contact and wait for the cue to go on. We never did 2o2o at our classes so Belle has a running contact and she never tries to bail off a contact which is good. Right now that is fine as even though she can be really fast, she hasn't gone too fast yet at the trials. Once she gets faster I will have to try to keep out in front I guess. There is one border collie at our trials that the handler is never near the dog, just yells right or left and the dog turns the way it should and does the obstacle in front of it. It is fun to watch but sometimes it can be a train wreck too when the dog just decides to go off course.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> So are you practicing where the trial will be held? That is out biggest problem is that we don't get to practice much (if at all) at the place the trial is held at which makes things newer there for Belle and for her wanting to sniff things. She did well at the last one though with not sniffing or visiting. I guess that is what Novice is all about though...getting them used to trialing. I would love to be able to practice twice a week. We only have once a week practice. I am going to have my husband make me some jumps though cause I really need work on being able to send Belle over a jump vs, running along side of her as she goes over.


No. Practices are held in various locations but none of them is the actual trial field. There is NO access to the trial field until the trial because it's a public park ;-) Until the agility equipment is there, it's just a field. We've never had a major problem with novel locations, though. This is just pure tunnel wtf-ery. I love that our instructor is making these weekly practices available for the run ups to the trials. Otherwise, a lot of people would just be SOL for real practice thanks to lack of access to the contact equipment. Everyone has tunnels and weaves and jumps but there aren't a lot of A-frames and dogwalks floating around.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> No. Practices are held in various locations but none of them is the actual trial field. There is NO access to the trial field until the trial because it's a public park ;-) Until the agility equipment is there, it's just a field. We've never had a major problem with novel locations, though. This is just pure tunnel wtf-ery. I love that our instructor is making these weekly practices available for the run ups to the trials. Otherwise, a lot of people would just be SOL for real practice thanks to lack of access to the contact equipment. Everyone has tunnels and weaves and jumps but there aren't a lot of A-frames and dogwalks floating around.


You know, I wonder how Belle would do outside with all the distractions and smells. I am curious to see this summer if I set up a course in my yard how well she will pay attention.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> You know, I wonder how Belle would do outside with all the distractions and smells. I am curious to see this summer if I set up a course in my yard how well she will pay attention.


I LOVE outside. Kylie's a lot more 'on' and excited but. Kylie's not an overly sniffy dog. Biggest issue she has is 'rain? lol, no.'


----------



## Laurelin

Nationals are streaming!


----------



## kadylady

Zoey gets zoomies when we trial outside...and it makes me happy  She also gets zoomies at the indoor sports center with turf where we trial twice a year. She likes their turf alot.


----------



## CptJack

How many runs do you guys typically sign up for in a given day of a trial? 

I know it's going to vary by dog, but color me curious.


----------



## sassafras

GUYS. Squash and I had probably our best night at agility ever. I feel like my handling is finally catching up to his ability to be handled. Things are coming more naturally to both of us and we are just really clicking. We had two really smooth, fantastic runs and felt that feeling of partnership I love, just like a really good scooter or skijor run. 

My Squashies. <3


----------



## Laurelin

The partnership feeling is the BEST. It's why I keep coming back to the sport. Haven't quite hit that yet with Hank but we'll get there. 

As far as runs per day, I've done 6-7 on TDAA trials since they're shorter. For Summer and a standard trial, I'd just do 4 max. With Hank... well... it's a ways out.


----------



## CptJack

I ended up signing Kylie up for 4. 

1 on Saturday, 3 on Sunday. I suspect Sunday is going to be pushing it for her, but I don't know yet. The last run was just an impulsive touch 'n go run, so no harm or foul if that doesn't go right. I can always adjust for May if I need to. Though it looks like that one's just touch 'n go, tunnelers and weavers so. We'll see.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> How many runs do you guys typically sign up for in a given day of a trial?
> 
> I know it's going to vary by dog, but color me curious.


AKC I usually do all 3 or 4 depending on how many are offered that day. CPE all 5.

ETA: Zoey had her X-rays this afternoon...fractured has healed well and vet said we can start slowly easing back into normal activities...aka agility!! So relieved everything healed well and we can get back to playing.


----------



## CptJack

When did agility eat my life? 

I have agility practices, lessons, or classes three times a week for the next two months, with two, two day trials in there.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> When did agility eat my life?
> 
> I have agility practices, lessons, or classes three times a week for the next two months, with two, two day trials in there.


hehe do you love it?! 

I did some handling and sending work with Zoey last night, just a tunnel and some jumps with no bars. She was beyond excited to be doing agility again, so excited that she was actually barking at me!!! That has NEVER happened before. Of course I encouraged her to carry on with her crazy silly happy self!


----------



## CptJack

I love it. I think.

My wallet hates it. 

I'm glad Zoey's having a good time and happy to be back!


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> My wallet hates it.


ha yeah.... I feel the pain there.


----------



## Laurelin

I need more agility. So bad. One class every week or two is killing me.

I may be trying to switch classes. I feel a bit bad though... my trainer right now is a good friend. But class falls on trial days a lot and it makes it hard for the trainer to hold classes so we keep getting cancelled. I'd much prefer a weekday. 

Or maybe even doing class 2x a week with both trainers but that could get confusing. If I could just find a place to rent a ring I'd be FINE.


----------



## lauren17

My agility classes stopped for winter so we've had a break since December. Should start again next week but I'm worried about it now. Its now going to be at an outdoors location. The entire 5 acres is fenced in and other classes will be going on at the same time. As much as I've worked on recall there is no way I'll be able to keep Roo with me on the course with so much going on in such a big open space. He is so easily distracted still. Its frustrating after working with a dog for so long that is so attentative and serious about his work.


----------



## kadylady

I missed 3 out 4 session of our last class due to her injury and didn't sign up for it this next session knowing that I would have to miss the first 2. So we are without formal class until April 30th. Luckily I'm assisting in one of the beginner classes at the club so I get free floor time after class. We are doing a seminar April 12th though with my instructor, she is doing an OMD seminar, super excited about that and learning lots of new things. Then we will start trialing again the next 3 weekends in a row. Can't wait!


----------



## CptJack

My actual plan is pretty much to run Kylie through April and May with trials at the end of both months. Private lessons on weekends, what amounts to huge informal show 'n go practices on Thursdays this month and whenever next. I also need to figure out what in the name of heck I'm doing for May, since that trial is all 'games'. May just do one run of each of them and call it good experience. Then I'm going to let her drop for the summer and pick back up in prep for October's trial. 

Molly's doing Foundations again starting tonight. Most likely I'll run her through Beginner and Intermediate over the summer - or at least beginner. After that, I don't know. Drag her around with us to the October trial with Kylie, see how she handles it and then restart the following January. She needs more impulse control before she goes anywhere and frankly she's not old enough to compete for another 8 months, anyway.

Either way, we'll see and I'll have met my goals for the year.


----------



## Laurelin

I would like to trial with Hank end of next fall/winter, I think. It'll be tough to get him where he needs to be before then. Summer trialed just under a year after her classes but she had a year at our old trainer's in Texas (even though she re-started completely when we moved).

Slow and steady foundations... slow and steady. I need to figure out this teeter issue.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie's had 6 months of classes - like actively in class - but time between her first agility class and her first trial will 16 months. Molly it'll probably be more like 2 or 3 years, frankly, if I ever get there. There are a lot of hurdles between us and competing - starting with reactivity and finishing with Molly just being a radically different dog than Kylie when it comes to this. I'm going to have to learn a whole new way of handling, while she's learning what to do out there. 

I'm still kind of 'eh' about trials themselves, though. I think if you offered me endless show 'n goes or just practices or the ability to run courses without the *trial* I'd be pretty content. Then again, I have really low expectations of where the dogs (and I) end up. Like if I get a single novice title on Kylie, I'll be over the moon. (What's ambition?)


----------



## LoMD13

Me and the little had a great week- we played Snooker and we've had trouble with it in the past because Lola can get demotivated if it's not a particularly flowy course. We did fantastic though, and even better and speedier the second time around. REALLY hoping I can get that same speed in a trial. We've got two coming up- a USDAA one next week, and a NADAC one at the end of the month. It'll be our first NADAC, really looking forward to it!


----------



## Laurelin

This video making the rounds on facebook.

Tissue warning!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Three-Pines-Productions-LLC-and-3PBNTV/107986955887750?fref=photo

So good.


----------



## Laurelin

EDIT: Moved this post to its own thread.


----------



## So Cavalier

Laurelin said:


> This video making the rounds on facebook.
> 
> Tissue warning!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Three-Pines-Productions-LLC-and-3PBNTV/107986955887750?fref=photo
> 
> So good.


Ok, now I am all teary-eyed. My classmate's 13 year old MAS is close to retiring. She needs a couple more Jackpot Qs for her C-ATCH 2. She has visibly slowed down and I know her last run will be a teary one too. I have had so many friends retire dogs or have dogs pass away and it always is sad. This past two years, three of our club members have died. You get very close to people and their dogs in this sport. I don't know how much longer Gemma will be competing. She is still running well. Her last trial seemed more tiring for her but the weather was awful. She will compete as long as she is having fun. Sharon Nelson's quote at the end of the video says it all.


----------



## CptJack

Annnnd I have trial confirmation. 

After a snaffu on my end that very nearly ended up with Kylie jumping 4" instead of 8. 

I'm scared again. Not of the agility part, but the rest of it. Hold me.

(No, seriously, I'll be back to normal after we have practice tomorrow and I'm around agility again and doing it instead of thinking about it.)


----------



## So Cavalier

Baxter did two sets of 6 weaves, separated by about 4 feet, first set of six, treat ball, second set of six, treat ball. He should be at 12 straight soon... I hope....He also did a beautiful pin wheel with at least six feet of distance from me for the farthest jump. Rear cross drills.....not so great.


----------



## LoMD13

Rear crosses are not the strong suits of little white fluffs! Lola is really awful at them. She flips around and yells at me.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie is crap with rear crosses, too. She whirls around to bark at me.


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack said:


> Kylie is crap with rear crosses, too. She whirls around to bark at me.


Have you tried working them on a figure eight grid?


----------



## CptJack

trainingjunkie said:


> Have you tried working them on a figure eight grid?


Probably not. What's a figure 8 grid?


----------



## trainingjunkie

7 or 9 jumps are set up as a figure 8. Then, you run the figure 8 and handle the crosses differently on each pass. That way, your dog can see your handling moves using front crosses, blind crosses, rear crosses. You can also play with crossing on take-off side and landing side. This way, your dog pretty much knows where to go and can get comfortable with your handling without much of the frustration and confusion with other set ups. You can always wrap and jump and reverse the flow to mix things up and also just run the outside to cue extension and then flow back into the 8. It's a really good set up for handling. For both the handler and the dog.

Do you have access to 7 or 9 jumps and space to put them up?


----------



## trainingjunkie

If you have access and interest, I would be happy to video it for you.


----------



## CptJack

I have the space. I need to make or buy a couple of more jumps to do it, but that isn't hard. Also have access to the full agility field a few times a week for the next few weeks so if you can find a video that would be great!


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack said:


> I have the space. I need to make or buy a couple of more jumps to do it, but that isn't hard. Also have access to the full agility field a few times a week for the next few weeks so if you can find a video that would be great!


Great! I will set it up and shoot it late this afternoon. I will post it tonight. I think you will like it. It was hugely helpful for me. Until I started doing them, I didn't have a rear cross either. Now, it's my go-to move: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnmYfx4g-Fo

Bummer about the bar!


----------



## CptJack

Thanks, a bunch!

I'm pretty sure I could sort of limp Kylie through almost any course we're likely to encounter at this level/stage of the game using front and blind crosses, but obviously I'd like to do better than that. 

And if Molly ever gets her head together enough to really, properly play the game rear crosses and good distance are going to be necessities from go, so Kylie makes for a great set of training wheels for ME to figure this stuff out.


----------



## So Cavalier

With Gemma, I live and breathe rear crosses. She has great directionals and she works beautifully at a distance. I think she figured it out on her own. Now actually trying to teach skills to Baxter is requiring me to actually think about what I am doing. I have to keep reminding myself it wasn'the that easy in the beginning with Gemma either. She was Queen of the Zoomies and Miss Social Butterfly in the beginning.


----------



## Laurelin

I found a teeter and dog walk I can practice with outside of class!


----------



## Kyllobernese

That is great. I know it really helped when we were able to get our own equipment to practice on. Just doing classes once a week was just not enough.


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack- We have strong winds tonight, crazy gusts. The bars on my jumps aren't going to stay put. I will videotape tomorrow when things move less!


----------



## CptJack

No problem at all training junkie. I'll be here and interested to see when you get it up, but by no means feel pressured on my account.


----------



## CptJack

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/367033-agility-pictures-kylie.html

Kylie agility pictures here.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Here is my Figure 8. This is the very first time I have been out doing agility since November and it sure shows! I was hoping we could get started, but the grass is so dry and dead that my dog is slipping, so I will probably have to wait to start working until it starts to green up. It was really slick.

Despite this, there were front crosses, rear crosses, and blind crosses. I couldn't do a landing side front because my dog was either cruising to fast or I was running too slow! You can make the Eight bigger, smaller, irregular. And you can mix things up by sometimes running the outer circle and skipping the middle jump (doing an oval instead of an eight). And you can wrap your dog occasionally and switch directions. You can also build lines off of the eight in any direction and work other obstacles and come back in. The value of the circle/eight is that you can run long sequences with just 7 jumps. Too often, we train short sequences and then get tested by having to run long ones in trial. 

Anyway, I hope this makes sense. We are sure rusty! Can't wait to start training hard again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENOkWP0xGU


----------



## CptJack

This is awesome! Forget Kylie, this would be great training for ME with changing directions. Definitely something I'll get set up and work on.

Thank you so much for taking that video for me. Really, really helpful and... inspiring.


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack said:


> This is awesome! Forget Kylie, this would be great training for ME with changing directions. Definitely something I'll get set up and work on.
> 
> Thank you so much for taking that video for me. Really, really helpful and... inspiring.


You are way too kind! I am so happy that you like it! Once I learned how to use this, I fell in love. Very delighted to get to share it!


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie said:


> Here is my Figure 8.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENOkWP0xGU


Love this trainingjunkie!! I'm totally going to set this up! Thanks for sharing! And you guys look nice!

I frequently do speed circle type stuff with Zoey to help get her moving faster and more excited, because she can get a bit demotivated with too many "difficult" things. This figure 8 will be really perfect for her I think.

My instructor emailed us for our next class and there are only 4 of us in it so she is asking for specific exercises we want to work on. This is our current "homework list" I sent to her...(it's a jumping skills drills class so the list doesn't include our never ending contact and weave work)... 



> Threadles! Or anything that I have to pull her in to me between 2 obstacles (which is the definition of a threadle I think? lol). I struggle with that.
> 
> Other things in no particular order....
> - Backsides, creating more extension/drive since she slows down sooooooo much coming into a backside.
> - Rear cross on the flat
> - Pinwheels....I hate pinwheels
> - Front crossing down a line and not slamming it in her face, I've been doing better but can always use more practice with that.


Pretty sure I can practice most of that with that figure 8 setup  Gah, now I want to set it up this weekend!! One more week of no jumping...


----------



## trainingjunkie

My coach used to make me run the pattern and the various crosses without a dog. I got bit and screamed at a lot less doing it that way! Once I could do it alone, adding the dog was easy.

Can't wait for you to be off of restrictions kadylady! I know how frustrating that is!


----------



## So Cavalier

Nice video! I wish I had a nice big space like that for training on my own. My yard is small.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Thanks! I love my yard. Open and flat and fenced. An agility person's dream. But right now, it needs rain!


----------



## CptJack

It would be fantastically wonderful if I could remember the course I'm on even half as well as I remember the course three days later. 

Brain.... work with me here.


----------



## MrsBoats

Ran some USDAA yesterday! Ocean earned his P1 Pairs Relay title! I wish we had gotten some video of that because our partner was a little King Cavalier Spaniel named Leroy. I only got video of our jumpers run which wasn't a Q. He dropped a bar because I didn't move out of the way when he committed to the jump. Bad handler...but the rest of the run was really, really nice. My little rocket man might be growing up!

No classes for us today...but we run again tomorrow!


----------



## LoMD13

Congrats MrsB and O! Can't wait to see what you two accomplish this year. Might we see you guys next week?! We're doing pairs for the first time with a super fun big dog, it should either be great or a hilarious disaster, but either way I'll get it on tape!


----------



## So Cavalier

MrsBoats said:


> Ran some USDAA yesterday! Ocean earned his P1 Pairs Relay title! I wish we had gotten some video of that because our partner was a little King Cavalier Spaniel named Leroy. I only got video of our jumpers run which wasn't a Q. He dropped a bar because I didn't move out of the way when he committed to the jump. Bad handler...but the rest of the run was really, really nice. My little rocket man might be growing up!
> 
> No classes for us today...but we run again tomorrow!


What a great pairing! a rottie and a cavalier!:rockon: Wish CPE had a pairs event.


----------



## kadylady

Really nice run MrsBoats, really nice wrap!


----------



## Laurelin

Ocean looks great! He's a powerhouse!

Hank did good this week . We lost our end of session competition haha. All the dogs really did great, it was very close!

He is not weaving in class the way he is weaving at home so we're backing up a bit on training, working some entrances.

His 2o/2o behavior is coming along but when I add speed he totally forgets. 

But it's very fun working with Hank!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

MrsBoats said:


> Ran some USDAA yesterday! Ocean earned his P1 Pairs Relay title! I wish we had gotten some video of that because our partner was a little King Cavalier Spaniel named Leroy. I only got video of our jumpers run which wasn't a Q. He dropped a bar because I didn't move out of the way when he committed to the jump. Bad handler...but the rest of the run was really, really nice. My little rocket man might be growing up!
> 
> No classes for us today...but we run again tomorrow!


You guys look great!!


I really need a set of good weave poles. Does anyone have any suggestions on a good, yet affordable set? I'm also thinking of doing 2x2 method in the future. Anything that is not stick in the ground? I suppose if I need to I would be willing to spend a decent amount for quality.


----------



## Laurelin

I bought my 2x2s through clean run. they've held up great so far.

Hank finally tugged his favorite tug in half.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> I bought my 2x2s through clean run. they've held up great so far.
> 
> Hank finally tugged his favorite tug in half.


Wow for some reason when I looked at them I thought I only got 1 set of 2 poles for that price! Haahh. Yeah I can deal with that. Any idea on why the spacing difference and which is better to get? 22 vs 24' spacing.

Also.. poor Hank!


----------



## Laurelin

24 inch is regulation for almost all orgs, I believe. Every organization I know of off the top of my head switched to 24" spacing. I'm sure something still must use 22 but idk what....

They switched to 24" to lessen the amount of strain on dogs' backs.

EDIT: I'd figure out what venue you'll be trialling in most and check what spacing they use on their weaves.

The sad part about his tug is they don't make them anymore! Drat! That was his FAVORITE and highest reward!


----------



## CptJack

NADAC is 24" unless you have old equipment set at 22 - their regulations are just that it must be replaced by 24". 

I don't know who uses them as standard either.

What was the tug, Laurelin?


----------



## Laurelin

USDAA and AKC are 24" as apparently is CPE. TDAA is narrower at 21" (?) I think most venues use 24 nowadays.

It was this toy:

http://www.dogtuff.com/tuff-tested/rip-n-tug-barbell.html

Rip N Tug barbell. They discontinued the whole rip n tug line of toys.

I have no idea what I can replace it with! He tugged so hard the barbell part tore in two.


----------



## CptJack

I actually have one of those, though it's a bigger one. If you drop me your address/are comfortable with that, I'll mail it to you. I got it for Molly and she just didn't like it.


----------



## MrsBoats

Thanks guys!! He is a lot of fun with a lot of power!! LOL Yesterday had good pieces in our runs...but you could start to see in other places where we hadn't run much agility in 5 months. Needless to say, no Q's and no titles. I tried to handle outside of the box in jumpers with a bunch of front crosses (I normally drive from behind and do rear crosses) and it was a hot mess because I couldn't be where I should have been. That was a good learning experience for me as a handler. LOL 



LoMD13 said:


> Congrats MrsB and O! Can't wait to see what you two accomplish this year. Might we see you guys next week?! We're doing pairs for the first time with a super fun big dog, it should either be great or a hilarious disaster, but either way I'll get it on tape!


You'll have fun in Pairs!! That's a fun class! No agility at Surefire next weekend for us...Lars and I are stepping into the Utility A ring again. Keep your fingers crossed we can finally get that last UD leg...we have three tries! Then the weekend after that is AKC agility in Hamden, CT with O. Then the first weekend of May is Obedience again with Lars. Then I go on my stretch of AKC and USDAA agility with O for the summer. Obedience trials tend to die off that time of year.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Thanks! I'll go with 24". I planned on CPE and AKC for sure. Not sure after that.


----------



## Tashapaws

kadylady said:


> hehe do you love it?!
> 
> I did some handling and sending work with Zoey last night, just a tunnel and some jumps with no bars. She was beyond excited to be doing agility again, so excited that she was actually barking at me!!! That has NEVER happened before. Of course I encouraged her to carry on with her crazy silly happy self!


Natasha has started doing exactly that. This last month, she's in class and she just wants to run the courses or practice tricks. 
I'm starting to think she believes she's a herding breed mix and not a sighthound mix.


----------



## C.C.

Hi all, I thought I stop by and introduce myself. I have an approximately 1 1/2 year old Shih Tzu mix named Gus. He is a high energy little guy so I started doing agility class with him a couple of months ago. He loves it! He consistently amazes me with how fast he catches on. If he had a better handler he could really go places! Ha!


----------



## lauren17

Classes finally started back for Roo! And I got ran over by horse and cracked my ribs so probably going to miss out on this session  But my weave pole set should be here any day so I'm going to start him on those at home. This is the only obstacle we haven't started yet.


----------



## CptJack

Foundations with Molly tonight, the instructor is talking about 'get outs' and the importance of being able to send the dog away from you. You know, talking about how at first the dog might be willing to slow down and stay with you and it's okay, but eventually the dog's probably going to get more enthusiastic and faster, the courses are going to get harder, and you're not going to want to stay with the dog anyway. Stopped dead, looked at me and said 'Becky knows'.

I laughed, a lot, because yep. I didn't realize she'd been paying so much attention at practices but she's right. It's been a long time since Kylie was miss 'won't leave my heels', so distance work and reliability is becoming more and more of a thing. Bet I know what we're going to be working on in Saturday's private. Well, besides me asking 2,000 questions about the upcoming trial. Like since there's no check in, what do I do? How are volunteer assignments gotten? What do I do after the run/how do I get my score so I find out things like YPS, etc. 

Still about 95% sure Kylie's going to ultimately just bark at the judge and/or ring crew, though.

Molly, meanwhile is actually going to be okay, I think. Getting her under control is going to take longer than Kylie because Kylie had to be taught to let loose. Molly... I'm actually glad we're doing extra work with her, and another set of foundations. She's going to need it. I do think we'll be ready to move on after the end of this class, though. 

...Yeah, I'm definitely loving agility again right now. A lot. I mean it's taken over my life entirely, but it's a good kind of taking over, you know?


----------



## Laurelin

CptJack said:


> I actually have one of those, though it's a bigger one. If you drop me your address/are comfortable with that, I'll mail it to you. I got it for Molly and she just didn't like it.


Ooohh! I somehow missed this post!

Yeah I'd love it! I can't guarantee it'll last forever, he's shredded up a couple but if you don't want it....


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Ooohh! I somehow missed this post!
> 
> Yeah I'd love it! I can't guarantee it'll last forever, he's shredded up a couple but if you don't want it....


PM me so I have your mail and I'll stick it in the mail (might be early next week or something depending on how schedules and the PO work out) but it's getting zero love here. May as well go somewhere it'll be loved to death


----------



## CptJack

So, practice tonight. Did not get lost in the course. Which was 21 obstacles long (!!! longest course I've ever seen) and she even got 12 weaves first go. Obstacle discrimination? Notsomuch. Not awful, and honestly she's always sucked to the A-frame. She called off it (though not before 4 paws on) and took the tunnel which was pretty big. We went back worked on it some after we did a run through. Will probably work on it more on Saturday.

Overall, I'm kind of hoping with the success we're having with the standard and elite courses being set up that we'll not die at novice - though I don't know how much difference it makes besides the number of weaves in a set. If nothing else our weaves should be REALLY solid. Might even enter weavers in May, because I think she likes them ALMOST as much as the contact obstacles.

Also: Hey, time to sign up for May's trial. ...I'm going to start looking for trials like mad after this, aren't I? LOL.

Also stopped at a gas station on the way home. Woman and kid walk by our car. Woman points at Kylie (directly) and says to her kid "Look at the cute pug." Thought I misheard? Husband confirmed. Nope. Pug. Kylie.


----------



## CptJack

I'm having think-y thoughts, so I'm spamming this thread. 

The way I'm approaching agility seems to be changing. Not necessarily that I'm getting more serious about it, but that it just feels like it's finally coming together in my head as a whole picture, instead of a bunch of separate components and just too many balls for me to possibly keep them all in the air. It seemed like up until the past couple of weeks I could either remember the course, watch the dog, handle the sequences/obstacles/discrimination or whatever, OR use effective handling. 

I'm just... feeling a lot more confident about it, now. Not that we're great - we're not, but at least now I know enough to know what I didn't know- *and* I'm finally getting a real sense of running a course with Kylie as an active partner and participant, instead of trying to drag Kylie around a course without making too big of a fool of myself. 

It's... really nice.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> Also: Hey, time to sign up for May's trial. ...I'm going to start looking for trials like mad after this, aren't I? LOL.


Yes! LOL It's addicting! It's been 7 weeks since our last trial and I can barely contain myself with excitement to get to the next one!! One more week and then it's 3 weeks in a row and I'm so excited! I love trialing. 

My instructor is doing a seminar all day Sunday in which I have a working spot. Should be learning some really neat stuff, she gave me a sneak peek at her notes.  The seminar is based on her learning from the One Mind Dogs seminar she went to last year. So lots of neat stuff.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank starts round 3 of classes tomorrow! And we FINALLY are getting a ring rental this weekend.

His 2o/2o behavior is getting hilarious. If he thinks we're working, he will stop and try to 2o/2o on anything and everything.


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Yes! LOL It's addicting! It's been 7 weeks since our last trial and I can barely contain myself with excitement to get to the next one!! One more week and then it's 3 weeks in a row and I'm so excited! I love trialing.


Man, I am hoping I can manage to find a trial a month, most months, maybe 2 on the odd month. More than that and I think I might fall over and die. I may, however, very well change my tune a LOT after I've done any trials at all. Right now, though, 2-3 times a week is awesome, more than that is fun in the short term but needs to be finite or the rest of my life starts falling apart.


----------



## CptJack

Today's practice involved a Novice Course, some talk about what to expect at the trial, some really good feedback and, did I mention, an actual novice course? I was right in that we'd been running elite courses at practice, with the assumption that we could take or leave the useful parts of it. The actual, honest, novice course was... cake. 

We can DO those courses. Just really need to pay attention to where I put my crosses so I don't end up tripping over her or forcing her to do more lead changes than necessary. Not that we can do those courses in a trial setting, but still. 

Work wise, the big things we need to work on (and will be working on - yay for figure 8 jumps) are switches, wrong side weaves, and me staying out of the dog's way. Seeing her moving and taking obstacles, 3, 4, even 5 ahead of where I am? After all that 'won't get off my heels' stuff? GORGEOUS. 

She actually stayed with Andrea, took treats, and did simple behaviors for her while I was doing a walk through of the course. That was pretty huge.


----------



## Laurelin

So we did a TDAA ring rental with some friends. 

He did good. 

TERRIFIED of the teeter. Ugh terrified. Of course there has to be ONE thing he hates. lol We need a game plan for this.

Everything else though? Weaves, chute, etc was great. 

He runs so fast and hits the TDAA tunnels so hard that he kept removing the tunnel bags simply from running through them. And he also took down the ring gate by charging through it. Yeah... I'm not so sure if TDAA will be his thing. I always said he would probably demolish the course and he definitely did. He's more than small enough to run though within their height measurements.


----------



## CptJack

If you get everything else together and ready before you've gotten past the teeter, there's always NADAC? Not that I know how prevalent it is in your area, but it would get him some trial environment experience.


----------



## MrsBoats

Yes, NADAC is an option for teeter free agility. You can also think about doing just JWW with AKC or FAST with AKC and just avoid the teeter. USDAA jumpers classes doesn't have a teeter either and their gamblers classes you can also avoid it if need be. You'll have some options to trial mileage on Hank and work on his teeter fears.


----------



## Laurelin

There's only one trial a year here in NADAC and it was last month.  But yeah there's a lot of options.

I still just have no plan with him. I think I'm going to break down and buy/build a teeter. He is PETRIFIED.

It is kind of frustrating since everything else is going so well.

He did handle the wobble board teeter thing ok after some time. Was offering his 2o/2o behavior.


----------



## CptJack

I have successfully trained Kylie to turn 180 degrees and take the obstacle she just came over. I... Suck at this. (no, not what I was going for)


----------



## kadylady

CPE also has no teeter requirements in Level 1 (not sure if you have any of that near you).

We did a seminar yesterday, 9 am - 6 pm. Holy crap I'm tired! Zoey was exhausted, coming off a 6 week break and still getting back into shape...I had absolutely no dog left by the end of the day. It was a long day. It was great though, learned so much stuff and had a good time. I videoed all of our work so going to work on putting all the clips together this week. 

Finally trialing this coming weekend! Took the day off of work Friday and going to CPE Friday and Saturday. Very excited. Feels like it's been forever.


----------



## CptJack

Random curiosity brought to you by a thread on another forum: 

How many verbal commands do you use when running the course? Every obstacle, none at all, or where in between (I assume most people fall between). I started out trying to call basically everything for Kylie, and I'm not sorry I did because it put names to obstacles and actions for her. Now, though, I'm finding I *only* use verbal commands for directionals (Out, here, and switch though god knows the switch needs help) and discriminations - and not always then. 

Apparently there just isn't enough room in my head to call out obstacles for her, stay on course, remember the course, get crosses in, and not fall on my face. It seems to have helped her speed and confidence a ton, too.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> How many verbal commands do you use when running the course?


Hmm lets see....I call out most of the obstacles, though I have started calling out fewer jumps and only calling ones that need extra support. Walk, climb, teeter are all follwed by an additional touch cue for her 2o2o, which is followed by "break" her release cue. I use tunnel for the tunnels and the chute. I do use tire for the tire ( as opposed to jump) as she used to have trouble with that so I gave it it's own cue. Other verbals are "go" for keep going or go out, "round" for backsides (though I wish i had used back, but she already understood an around verbal so I just shortened it), "git it git it git it" for encouraging speed in the weaves and/or tunnels, and her name for either getting her attention or calling her in.


----------



## LoMD13

We had a pretty fun USDAA trial this weekend! We got a 1st place and a Q in Pairs, and then we filled in for another dog that didn't come, and got a 3rd place and a Q with him. That one didn't count unfortunately since we were just fill-ins. Too bad since we could use all the Q's we can get! Our jumpers run was less than stellar, she was SO unmotivated for the first 5 or 6 jumps. Once a few people started cheering, she turned it on and finished it out nicely, but still 6 seconds over time. I think it was a combination of it being the end of a long day, getting hot, and me not revving her up enough right before the run. It was a fantastic day overall, we LOVE pairs.


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Hmm lets see....I call out most of the obstacles, though I have started calling out fewer jumps and only calling ones that need extra support. Walk, climb, teeter are all follwed by an additional touch cue for her 2o2o, which is followed by "break" her release cue. I use tunnel for the tunnels and the chute. I do use tire for the tire ( as opposed to jump) as she used to have trouble with that so I gave it it's own cue. Other verbals are "go" for keep going or go out, "round" for backsides (though I wish i had used back, but she already understood an around verbal so I just shortened it), "git it git it git it" for encouraging speed in the weaves and/or tunnels, and her name for either getting her attention or calling her in.


I am vaguely hopeful that by the time Molly is ready to do anything real, I will be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. For now I'm pretty grateful I have Kylie because more and more I'm realizing that something is going to fall out of my head, no matter what. The less I can do boneheaded things like tell her to jump tunnels, the better off we are. I don't know if this will translate into a trial environment. A lot depends on whether she stresses up or down (and just how nervous I get); the faster she is, the fewer verbals I even try for. Since coming back to it, she's given up being clingy and has started just RUNNING. Glorious and beautiful but learning curve. 

Because, like I said, I always forget something. The course, some part of the course, the commands, to do crosses. SOMETHING. 

Maybe someday I'll stop sucking. Maybe.



LoMD13 said:


> We had a pretty fun USDAA trial this weekend! We got a 1st place and a Q in Pairs, and then we filled in for another dog that didn't come, and got a 3rd place and a Q with him. That one didn't count unfortunately since we were just fill-ins. Too bad since we could use all the Q's we can get! Our jumpers run was less than stellar, she was SO unmotivated for the first 5 or 6 jumps. Once a few people started cheering, she turned it on and finished it out nicely, but still 6 seconds over time. I think it was a combination of it being the end of a long day, getting hot, and me not revving her up enough right before the run. It was a fantastic day overall, we LOVE pairs.


Congratulations! That's awesome. Pairs sounds like tons of fun!


----------



## Laurelin

I think I cue quite a bit. Not sure. I just kind of go with it and see what works. I don't cue every jump but say if we have a straight line of jumps and a tunnel I will say 'Go' and cue the tunnel on the end. I find Hank and Summer both like me very 'up' and louder (and faster).


----------



## Laurelin

So I'm half inclined to try a four leaf clover TDAA run with Hank on Sunday. It's only jumps and tunnels. Probably should not though, we're still very far out from really being able to trial.


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, I'd do it. You don't have to go in with expectations or the intent to put titles on him right now but I'm coming around to the belief that the sooner they get out there and DO trial settings, even if it's just getting on the course and getting off again, the better. I am not heavily competitive and won't be, but I *fully* intend to get Molly into a trial as soon as she turns 18 months and I think she can cope with the setting (I'm kind of honing in on NADAC right now, and that's their cut off). It might be a mistake, but honestly the more exposure she has the better off I think we'll be. 

Though I might hold out for 20 months, and the home club trial, just because it'll be easier to get her home if she *doesn't* hack it well.


----------



## LoMD13

This was our first place Q in Pairs. 



And this was our 3rd place Q in Pairs.


----------



## Laurelin

Whoo! Go Lo! 

Yeah I haven't decided about Hank yet. We'll see. I wouldn't expect anything other than having fun running some tunnels.

-----------------------

Off Topic but really interesting article from One Mind Dog about agility in Finland versus US (USDAA): http://www.oneminddogs.com/article/Agility-Competitions-In-USA-And-Finland/?lang=en


----------



## Sibe

I haven't posted here lately. Denali and I had our last trials in October followed by the husky Nationals at the end of that month. We'd taken time off over the summer to rework her weaves, and then the stress of the trials and the scary judgeman wrecked her weaves again. We took time off, the club doesn't have lessons in December, then in January we were gone for 2 weeks on vacation. From February on her weaves have been a mess. She's been skipping the first 2-3+ poles and ducking in at random points (she was trained with 2x2s and has never skipped poles like that before). We kept on working on them having fun with them at home and by early March she started doing all 12 in class. Once. She'd hit them perfectly the very first time she was asked to do them during class, but if we repeated them she'd skip poles and/or stress out of them. First couple classes I was trying to get her to redo them but we were never successful. Switched to ignoring bad weaves, and heavily rewarding good weaves. Did that for another few weeks. Then one week when she missed I asked her once to repeat, and she wouldn't and at that point I knew I was doing good by just ignoring the bad weaves. It stressed her out SO MUCH to be asked to try again. This is what we've been doing the last month. We just skipped 2 weeks of classes (instructor hurt her knee) and tonight was first night back. Nali got her weaves perfectly during warmup. Then she hit them perfect AGAIN on her run of the first part of the course. Heavy extreme reward! Then when we did the entire course she got them AGAIN perfectly, I had her do the 2 jumps right after the weaves (close to weaves, wrap) and then reward that time. I'm so proud of my Poofy Princess!!!! She was amazing tonight. Tight wraps, perfect obstacle discrimination (she missed once when I lost my words and took the dw instead of tunnel as I stood there trying to think of what the tunnel was called (which btw I say "pipe" because there are too many T words. Tire, Table, Teeter...) just fantastic and fast and clean!!


----------



## CptJack

OH MY GOD I ACTUALLY GET IT!

It being switches. 

I swear to god I have spent the past two weeks sort of getting it and thinking I get it, without really getting it. I get it now. Now, maybe, I can teach it to Kylie. 

I feel like such a dummy.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Off Topic but really interesting article from One Mind Dog about agility in Finland versus US (USDAA): http://www.oneminddogs.com/article/Agility-Competitions-In-USA-And-Finland/?lang=en


Very interesting....especially the part about the warm-up/cool down time and the number of runs/trial. 




CptJack said:


> OH MY GOD I ACTUALLY GET IT!
> 
> It being switches.
> 
> I swear to god I have spent the past two weeks sort of getting it and thinking I get it, without really getting it. I get it now. Now, maybe, I can teach it to Kylie.
> 
> I feel like such a dummy.


Isn't it great when something just clicks all the sudden?!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations! Wonderful!


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Isn't it great when something just clicks all the sudden?!


YES. 

Well, great and a little humbling; I feel kind of dense. That was NOT as hard as I thought it was, but for whatever reason *MY* actions/what I needed to be doing wasn't coming together in my head. Like, at all. I knew what the DOG needed to do, but not what my part of the equation was. Once I worked that out, the picture changed and got a lot, lot clearer. 

Still not entirely sure how to teach it to the dogs, but now I have some ideas to test out, at least!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Registering with CPE. My instructor is pushing me to start some "easy" CPE trials. She swears I'm ready. I swear I'm not. I guess we will start some trials this summer!


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> YES.
> 
> Well, great and a little humbling; I feel kind of dense. That was NOT as hard as I thought it was, but for whatever reason *MY* actions/what I needed to be doing wasn't coming together in my head. Like, at all. I knew what the DOG needed to do, but not what my part of the equation was. Once I worked that out, the picture changed and got a lot, lot clearer.
> 
> Still not entirely sure how to teach it to the dogs, but now I have some ideas to test out, at least!


So I had to look up "switch" because it's not something I've been really taught or heard a lot about. But when I looked it up it looks similar to a tandem turn? Which is one of the techniques we learned in the seminar this weekend. And not one that we did well lol


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Registering with CPE. My instructor is pushing me to start some "easy" CPE trials. She swears I'm ready. I swear I'm not. I guess we will start some trials this summer!


Go for it!! CPE is super fun and laid back and IMO a great venue to start in. The courses are usually nice and flowy, most of the time there's only 6 weaves and half the classes they can be avoided, and some of the games classes have shorter courses which is nice for new teams.


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> So I had to look up "switch" because it's not something I've been really taught or heard a lot about. But when I looked it up it looks similar to a tandem turn? Which is one of the techniques we learned in the seminar this weekend. And not one that we did well lol


Yep, that looks like what it is. I don't know if it's *exactly* the same thing or not because I don't know the first thing about tandem turns aside from that video, but the object of a 'switch' is to turn the dog away from you to an obstacle, the dog to change its lead leg and for you to change the side you are handling on. It doesn't *LOOK* all that hard? But it's kind of freaking awkward. 

Glad I'm not alone with my struggle.

(And yes, absolutely, ForTheLoveOfDogs, trial. If I can, anyone can, and I've heard nothing but awesome stuff about CPE)


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

kadylady said:


> Go for it!! CPE is super fun and laid back and IMO a great venue to start in. The courses are usually nice and flowy, most of the time there's only 6 weaves and half the classes they can be avoided, and some of the games classes have shorter courses which is nice for new teams.


That's what I've been told! I'm hoping I can handle the not real pressure. I'm always an anxious wreck at new things!!

I'm also curious about this "switch" thing. We've used turns, which looks like that tandem turn to me, but I'm not sure what "switch" is.

Edit - Thanks for clarifying that CptJack and yes.. I will try to get the courage to enter a darn trial!


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> That's what I've been told! I'm hoping I can handle the not real pressure. I'm always an anxious wreck at new things!!
> 
> I'm also curious about this "switch" thing. We've used turns, which looks like that tandem turn to me, but I'm not sure what "switch" is.


Switch is basically flipping the dog out away from you and changing the dog's lead leg. It also serves as a cross/changes the side of you the dog is on. 

The set up at my last lesson had two jumps at 90 degree angles from each other, coming in to the first with dog on the right, switch/lead change, before the perpendicular jump and move behind to put the dog on your left coming out of the jump. 

I suspect this isn't so much really hard as it is me failing to get it until, uh, about a half hour ago.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Switch is basically flipping the dog out away from you and changing the dog's lead leg. It also serves as a cross.


So like a rear cross? I tried to look it up on Google and still don't really get it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Ah yes, that is what we just call "turn" in our class. No idea what it is really called, but most of the people that do it ask their dogs to "turn". I've only done a little bit of work with it and now I want to work on it just because of this! 

I still don't get a lot of things. Like.. reverse spins.. ? I see people using em' but I'm just lost on it.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> So like a rear cross? I tried to look it up on Google and still don't really get it.


Sort of? Or rather it can be a cross done from behind. Basically, if you're not distance handling, you're going to cross behind the dog while the dog is changing the direction of it's path. It's not actually a circle but if your dog were going in clockwise circles and then you 'switched' to counterclockwise circle, the point of change is where the dog's lead leg changes and is what you're cuing. 

Practically, so far, I've seen it to get sharp 90 degree turns from the dog, while the handler crosses behind.


----------



## kadylady

I *think* a switch, tandem turn and rear on the flat or rear on the landing side are all very closely interchangeable terms depending on where on the course you place it in relation to the next obstacle. But they are all side changes performed behind the dog. A "standard" rear cross is most typically performed on the take off side of an obstacle (so the handler crosses behind as the dog is starting to take the obstacle). What makes a switch/tandem turn/rear on flat or landing side harder than your regular old rear cross is that the dog has to turn away from the handler and it is usually done at a moment where the dog isn't in the process of taking another obstacle (hence where "on the flat" comes from), so instead of sending dog to obstacle then crossing behind (regular rear cross) you would cross behind dog then send to obstacle. *Don't quote me on any of this because it's still new to me too, and I'm not that good at it!* For Zoey it's hard because she is VERY offended by me stepping into her path, she hates any type of push, so I have to be very careful to ask for the turn away without showing any pushing motion until she starts to turn, for now anyways until she gets more comfortable with it.

Hope that made some sort of sense ^^ 

Reverse spins...I like! I'd done it a few times before in class but got to do it a lot more this weekend. We also did Jaakko's, lap turns, layers, German turn, forced front cross and reverse wrap.

A lap turn is also a turn away from the handler but the dog and handler are facing each other and the dog is running towards the handler then turned away to an obstacle, vs the others above are generally dog and handler facing the same direction.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> I *think* a switch, tandem turn and rear on the flat or rear on the landing side are all very closely interchangeable terms depending on where on the course you place it in relation to the next obstacle. But they are all side changes performed behind the dog. A "standard" rear cross is most typically performed on the take off side of an obstacle (so the handler crosses behind as the dog is starting to take the obstacle). What makes a switch/tandem turn/rear on flat or landing side harder than your regular old rear cross is that the dog has to turn away from the handler and it is usually done at a moment where the dog isn't in the process of taking another obstacle (hence where "on the flat" comes from), so instead of sending dog to obstacle then crossing behind (regular rear cross) you would cross behind dog then send to obstacle. *Don't quote me on any of this because it's still new to me too, and I'm not that good at it!* For Zoey it's hard because she is VERY offended by me stepping into her path, she hates any type of push, so I have to be very careful to ask for the turn away without showing any pushing motion until she starts to turn, for now anyways until she gets more comfortable with it.
> 
> Hope that made some sort of sense ^^
> 
> Reverse spins...I like! I'd done it a few times before in class but got to do it a lot more this weekend. We also did Jaakko's, lap turns, layers, German turn, forced front cross and reverse wrap.


Yes! That makes a lot of sense.


----------



## CptJack

Courses at practice tonight were a touch 'n go and a novice weavers. We did both. Would have qualified on the weavers, the T'n'G course though um. 
Didn't go badly? Got the obstacle discrimination, even, which I was proud of, did a lot of pretty far sends. I just... have a really hard time keeping those courses in my head for some reason. I need to decide what I'm entering next month since it's just weavers, tunnelers and Touch 'n' Go. Definitely Weavers, but that may be ALL we do. Kind of nervy about the Touch 'n go course we're signed up for in this month's trial, though. Guess I'll make a call on that AFTER we do the trial. 

We have practice again next week. Hopefully the weather is better and we can stick around and work a little more. Would have tonight but it was pouring rain and while I can hack it I don't want to kill Kylie's enthusiasm by forcing it too much.


----------



## Laurelin

We keep getting rained out. It's frustrating.

On a happy note- I think I found a teeter plank! I stole it from my dad's barn lololol. They have a lot of extra planks of wood. Now do I splurge for a real base? I want something I can adjust in very very very small increments.


----------



## CptJack

I. Hate. Rain. I mean Kylie hates it more, but I seriously just do not love it and am watching the weather for next weekend. 

You've reminded me that I have a pile of wood that's cut to dog walk width that I should probably get on to work on for some kind of contact something.


----------



## CptJack

Also, I am giving serious consideration to doing day of trial entries for the second regular run on Saturday, and/or a chances one. 

I clearly have some kind of strange allergy to money.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

CptJack said:


> I clearly have some kind of strange allergy to money.


I think that every time I send in entries


----------



## CptJack

Finkie_Mom said:


> I think that every time I send in entries


Yeaaah, I'm wobbling all over for May. I only REALLY want to do weavers. But they have T'nG and Tunnelers. I need practice at Touch and Go. If I did weavers and touch and go that's 8 runs - but 10 runs is only 12.00 more (and 10 is only ONE dollar more than 9), so. I could do one tunneler run each day just to get the experience (Tunnlers bores me to tears) and if I do that many why not just do them all?

Slippery. Slope. From 4 to 12. Somehow.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

CptJack said:


> Yeaaah, I'm wobbling all over for May. I only REALLY want to do weavers. But they have T'nG and Tunnelers. I need practice at Touch and Go. If I did weavers and touch and go that's 8 runs - but 10 runs is only 12.00 more (and 10 is only ONE dollar more than 9), so. I could do one tunneler run each day just to get the experience (Tunnlers bores me to tears) and if I do that many why not just do them all?
> 
> Slippery. Slope. From 4 to 12. Somehow.


HAHAHAHA I think if you know you guys are going to have fun then just do it 

But I'm also an enabler. I ususally only run 2 per day with Kimma because AKC = expensive. Running UKI was totally more affordable, but I had 2 dogs in 3 runs each so still 6 runs


----------



## CptJack

I figure I've got somewhere between 6 months and, more realistically, a year before I have to even THINK about running 2 dogs. And that means I should totally take advantage of just having one right now. Right? _Right?!_

Honestly, my expectations for Kylie are nonexistent at this trial, but I just keep looking at it and shrugging because - hey, it's ring time, a full course, a trial environment and in my back yard. Kylie's just 'turned on' with agility to the point where she sees running the course as this enormously rewarding thing, and full courses aren't things I have very much access time to right now (the class we should be in was cancelled due to lack of people and I only really manage private lessons when one of the instructor's regulars cancels) so what the hey. May as well go learn something and take as much advantage as I can manage, and NADAC allows training in the ring (it won't qualify you but it's allowed). 

I'll adjust more as I figure out Kylie's line. Probably will stick with 4-6 runs this weekend and adjust before I mail off May's entry. 

...then I'll probably be off for the summer because life and vacation, unless I can find a trial for that week in Michigan. Pick it up again in September and see how many trials I can find. 

(And my goal this year was enter ONE trial. Um....)


----------



## kadylady

I can help you find a trial in Michigan!! 

Zoey did pretty great this weekend, especially for our first trial back in 2 months. We went 2/5 in Q's on Friday and then a perfect 5/5 on Saturday!!! We were a bit sluggish and unconnected on Friday, but pulled it together well for Saturday. 

Friday Standard and Colors 
http://youtu.be/ZahM2pV5o3U

Saturday Standard 
http://youtu.be/PRhF_z_OBYA


----------



## CptJack

AWESOME JOB, ZOE!

(I'll let you know when I know exactly when I'll be there. Right now all I know is "August".)


----------



## Laurelin

11 years old and still rocking it! I love this dog so much. <3

Standard- NQ





I actually realized on re-watch that she thought I was picking her up at the pink tunnel so was trying to 'ready' herself for it. Also the shrieking when we are around the teeter is Hank. 

Full house- 3rd and Q





We had so much fun.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> AWESOME JOB, ZOE!
> 
> (I'll let you know when I know exactly when I'll be there. Right now all I know is "August".)


Thanks! And right now I have potential trials for every weekend in August lol 

Laurelin, Summer looks great! She looks like she's having a blast!


----------



## Laurelin

It is so corny but I keep re-watching it and watching her happy little tail and just smiling.  She is such a good, sweet dog. She was THRILLED to be out there. She's only done agility once since November. I'm hoping she can come to TDAA ring rentals. I think practicing at my club in the heat outside on USDAA courses is asking too much of her but she just loves it so much I need to figure out how to include her more often.

Also, she is 4 months seizure free! It's been almost a year since her first seizure so we're pretty sure it's not a tumor now, which is very happy. Brain tumors (which they thought it might be) only had a 3-6 month average life expectancy with no treatment and we're almost a year out!


----------



## MrsBoats

Nice Work both of you Laurelin and KadyLady!! 

Ocean and I went to a new place in CT this weekend and had a bunch of fantastic NQ runs...but the NQ's were one dropped bar in the runs. This was a great weekend for us...held contacts, control with lots of speed, and held start lines. I was so happy with O. I can't wait to see how this year pans out for us in agility. 

This was Time to Beat (T2B) and this was one of the coolest runs I've ever had in agility. 29.42 seconds...O blew all of the other 20" dogs out of the water time wise. We were Q'ing until that very last bar...and I don't even care because he nailed the rest of the course. That small bobble at the weave poles was me doing a rear cross there...O had second guessed himself. I have to practice rear crossing weave poles with him. I take for granted things I can do easily with Lars...O isn't solid on just a few things like that now. Rearing the poles is one of them. This the highlight video of the weekend! 






Here was one of Standard runs we had...I micromanaged that panel jump that came down, and I totally deserved it. O was brilliant despite me not trusting him at that panel. Lesson of the trial, trust your dog and risk a refusal instead of micromanaging and getting a full fledged fault. 






We have 2 weeks off from showing and May is pretty much all agility for the O-man!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Great videos everyone. So fun to see all the dogs having a great time. Holy crap can Ocean GO MrsBoats. Awesome runs!

Glad Summer is doing better Laurelin. So glad it is not a brain tumor.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfa0lyJGzGM This is what made me get over myself and enter a trial. Stumbled across it again today and was reminded of ForTheLoveOfDogs.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfa0lyJGzGM This is what made me get over myself and enter a trial. Stumbled across it again today and was reminded of ForTheLoveOfDogs.


Yesss. I need that. Time to get over my fears and just.. try! Who needs perfection?


----------



## Laurelin

Also this last weekend I ran into a wing jump and almost killed myself. Pretty embarrassing.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Yesss. I need that. Time to get over my fears and just.. try! Who needs perfection?


No one - but you need to do it! ...and so do I. I am kind of in a weird mental place right now with agility to be honest. It's not bad, it's just equal parts "Holy CRAP we are actually going to do this!" and being excited and not really caring if we make terrible fools of ourselves because I still just want to have fun and I'm *reasonably* confident in skills being there if not necessarily sure about performance in a trial environment. And on the other side being very, very aware that somehow we're at a point where the learning curve has gotten really steep again, just because I'm far enough along that I can now SEE the issues I need to work on, but I'm not having it broken down into bite sized pieces and steps, so it's a lot more 'figure it out' and a lot less handholding. 

I don't know. I'll get there. Somehow falling on my literal face with Molly, having a good cry and some bruises, being reassured a little by my instructor and then getting up again seems to have reset my brain a bit. 

It's a game. I love it a lot. I'm not going to let setbacks stop me, or it getting hard stop me. 

But it's a game.


----------



## Laurelin

It's just agility! Don't overthink it! As long as you and your dog have fun it's no big deal. If it goes badly then you get some good training feedback.

Like I said above. Hank's 'debut' was me running into a wing jump and knocking it over and falling down. The guy filming us didn't even get it on video. You just see me set Hank up then him run under the tire, take a jump, us go off screen then CRASH and everyone in the audience going 'Oh no! Ow ow ow ow ow!'

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

Seriously, you won't be worse than us. 

I about DIED laughing. And re-watching it looks like a bad comedy routine. Sadly it won't let me upload it or my other run (or my friend's that I videoed for her!) because it's telling me the file is corrupted. 

Looking back it was dumb to even try a simple jumps and tunnels game with him. He's not ready. Oh well. We regrouped and he did a jump and tunnel then we ran out. We'll re-visit in about a year. Hopefully I'll learn to run without falling by then.


----------



## CptJack

Ouch! Hopefully you're okay, too!

I'm making an agility playlist. I'm taking it to the trial with me. It's all upbeat, empowering, fun stuff. I'm going to have a good time if it kills me. Ironically, I'm pretty sure I'll have a good time with it no matter what. I'm also pretty sure I'm psyching myself out in a subconscious bid to give myself a chance to stop now rather than pursing something I like. I do that. It's stupid. I usually catch myself and stop it, but it's a thing.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh I'm fine! I just laughed a lot and realized my daydream of Hank and I showing up and being awesome and everyone being impressed was ridiculous. 

I think I am very blessed that my first agility dog was so old. We never had any expectations and never had any pressure. It was for fun and I knew it. I also knew there were no guarantees I'd have another run or trial before she had to retire. It made it very easy to just enjoy running her. And nowadays it's just so good to be out in the ring again that I don't care even less. It could honestly be our last run together so why not just enjoy the crap out of it?


----------



## Laurelin

And this may sound like a downer but the judge I had this last weekend I've had before. She starts every trial talking about how blessed we are to just have a dog to run. She used to have 4 dogs she was running in agility but she lost all of them in one night in a fire. Every trial she tells the story and reminds us to be kind to our dogs and enjoy it. I seriously cried (I think everyone did) every time I hear her talk about her dogs.

Not trying to be preachy but it did me good to hear her story. It's important to remember what it's all about.


----------



## LoMD13

Great job Kadylady, Laurelin, and MrsBoats!! 

Summer looked so happy running that course, i'm glad she can still get out there sometimes. I was hoping to get to another TDAA trial for a confidence boost, but the next few months are all outside and i'm 99.9% certain an outdoor trial would be certain disaster. Mostly because Lola is a marking fiend on grass, especially where other dogs have been. So we'll be sticking with USDAA and probably attempting NADAC. 

I love watching Ocean run too, such a power-house. Hope we bump into you again soon!


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> It's just agility! Don't overthink it! As long as you and your dog have fun it's no big deal. If it goes badly then you get some good training feedback.


This^^ When "bad" stuff happens, it's just information. Take it and use it. My instructor will not critique the not so great stuff in my runs with me until I tell her 3 things that went right. When I come out of the ring if I try to ask about something that didn't go so great she stops me and says "3 things?" It has been great for me to develop that perspective and always find the good things in our runs first, because there is always something good. Also having good goals helps me. Like this weekend, my goals were creating good, simple, flowing lines for her and not getting in her way, hopefully getting some speed on those nice lines, and also holding her contacts and getting weaves. If I set my goals right the Q's follow. If my goal's are just to get Q's then I pressure her, don't handle well, and sometimes just shut her down completely. Friday kind of went like that for us. I wasn't in the right mindset for her first trial back from an injury and our runs showed it...we were disconnected and she was slow. I mentally pulled myself together way better for Saturday, I set my goals and guess what...she was way happier, ran faster and we Q'd 5/5.

Also...remember that EVERYONE has had a first trial. And at some point, everyone has had disaster runs.

Also...if it makes you feel better...here is a run in our second trial. Zoey runs off to bark at the judge...not once, but TWICE! I was pretty embarrassed and was sure that we were going to get kicked out because my dog was barking at the JUDGE!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au9DAcrDj1A&index=9&list=PLGU5UcQLrGNYL0c2iht2HpDUFS5lbzDeA


----------



## LoMD13

I've seen super experienced dogs do some really silly stuff in the ring. There's really not much they can do that hasn't been done before. 

Lola bailed on me on our first trial to say hello to the judge. It happens!


----------



## Laurelin

I have mentioned the time Summer PEED IN A TUNNEL, right? We had to completely pause the trial, remove the tunnel and replace it with a new one.

Moral: Don't forget to potty your dog.

ETA: I have also seen a dog poop on the table LOL.


----------



## Laurelin

Or when Summer jumped into the ring crews lap mid run. Gave them some kisses then finished her run. 

Everyone had a good laugh.


----------



## LoMD13

Lola peed in a tunnel in class once and I was so embarrassed! Now I take her out 3 times in an hour haha.


----------



## MrsBoats

LOL....lots of dogs pee on/in equipment!! Ocean has peed his way down different a-frames when he was around 1 year old to 2.5 years old. THIS A-FRAME IS *MINE!!!!!!!!* ALL OF THE A-FRAMES ARE MINE!!!!!!!!! Mu-Hahahahahahaha!!!!


----------



## CptJack

I just found out there are only about thirty people entered in this trial. My stress just vanished. I know all these people. It'll be fun. (Also, Kylie has never peed anywhere near agility anything. This may be the week )


----------



## MrsBoats

You got this trial....NADAC right?? Every NADAC trial I've done was like hanging out with friends doing agility. You'll have a blast!

I stepped away from NADAC with Ocean....I tug him out of the agility ring as a reward. Tugging anywhere in or near the ring is a big no no in NADAC. So, I have no way to tell him it's okay to tug out of the ring in USDAA and AKC...but not this other one venue. Plus...I don't like the idea of telling my dog to go around an obstacle like the barrels and the gates. Every where else, that's a refusal. Too much gray area with those things....especially when gates and panel jumps look similar.


----------



## CptJack

Yep, I'm a NADAC person. 

I actually don't like some of their stuff, but they're the biggest game around locally (ie: there are the most trials I can get to easily) and I really like the people. Hoops irritate me for no reason at all, I have no interest in gates, but barrels don't bother me once I figured out that they were replacing sharply curved tunnels. Not that I mind sharply curved tunnels, but it helped me work out what I was trying to make the dog do. 

But yeah, this should be okay. 30 people entered, Saturday's lunch is *pot luck* of all things, and while I really wish the weather wasn't going to suck I mostly expect it to be a really good time. 

Have a final practice and Load All The Things for Friday, tonight. May or may not get out to watch any of Friday's stuff, probably do a day of trial entry for Saturday so I'm not just doing one run, and then the other 3 on Sunday. 

Think next month I'm just entering everything, though.


----------



## LoMD13

Can't wait to hear about Kylie's first trial!! 

I'm trying NADAC for the first time this summer, not so sure about the hoops either though, I introduced Lola to one a few weeks ago and she didn't seem to even really see it. I could have been leading her through open air for all she knew.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Can't wait to hear about Kylie's first trial!!
> 
> I'm trying NADAC for the first time this summer, not so sure about the gates either though, I introduced Lola to one a few weeks ago and she didn't seem to even really see it. I could have been leading her through open air for all she knew.


Kylie had that reaction to hoops for a long time. Just like 'what? there's nothing there', but seems to have worked it out, now. I DO still have to verbally cue those, though; she won't take them just because they're in her path.

(That said, I've seen a LOT of various level courses in the past month from practices and private classes. Lots of hoops. A few barrels. I've never seen a gate on a regular course.)


----------



## LoMD13

The lower jump heights is pretty awesome in NADAC too. USDAA wants Lola to jump 12- ha not happening, we have to do performance.


----------



## kadylady

I think I'm more excited about your trial this weekend than my own! lol You guys will have a blast for sure!

We are doing another day of CPE this weekend, just Saturday. We're back on turf, which we haven't been on since last November. Zoey likes turf so hopefully we'll get some excitement and speed.


----------



## CptJack

Yep. Kylie's regular jump height is 8" there. I'm, um. Cheating her out of getting measured, listed her height as just slightly over 11" (she's 11, dead on) and running her 8, anyway. Doesn't make any difference with NADAC until you're headed for NATCH, where there's a medal or some separate award for Skilled. The points combine between skilled and ...whatever the regular class is up to that point for titles. So that's also nice.


----------



## MrsBoats

I have 6 hoops here at the house....I actually really like them for doing flatwork/groundwork. I don't jump O every day so I can save on wear and tear on him. So, I'll use hoops in place of jumps to work on handling skills. I also use them more in the winter if there's no snow but the ground is frozen.

USDAA thinks O's championship height is 26"!!! He's 24.5" tall...and he could easily run under a 26" jump and use them as a hoop! LOLOLOL No way am I'm going to make my little black and tan gorilla jump 26". So we stick with 20" across the board. I want him to have a long career instead worrying about a MACH versus PACH.


----------



## LoMD13

Lola measures just over 8 inches, she CAN jump 12 but it just doesn't look as effortless and I don't see any reason to. I do wish USDAA had better jump heights, but I don't mind being in performance.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, I have a couple ordered so I can work on some various crosses and things with Kylie, but the "thin air" thing she had going on for a year and some change kind of burned me on them. I don't know what the heck that was about, even, though I guess to be completely fair Kylie has developed inexplicable avoidance/missing of every obstacle out there except the contact stuff. She even loved the teeter when we did it.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Lola measures just over 8 inches, she CAN jump 12 but it just doesn't look as effortless and I don't see any reason to.


Kylie HAS jumped 16" to be honest, but that was a stupid mistake on my part and not something I'd voluntarily choose to do (...we forgot to change the bars between runs at a practice). I'm okay with her at 8. I'd deal with 12, maybe, but I like you I don't much see the point.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank is supposed to jump 12" in TDAA. It's pretty ridiculous. IF we do TDAA again with him I will bump him up to 16". I'm pretty sure you can choose to jump your dog higher but can't jump them lower. In the video he has to really lower himself and slow down to make it in the 12" tire. 

He has easily jumped 26" before. Not intentionally but he did several last week while he got zoomies while I was playing with the puppy. When he jumps naturally I'd bet he jumps 18-20" even over a 16" bar. He should measure into 16" in USDAA and AKC. He is somewhere in the 14.75-15.5" range in height. 

I have a lot of friends in TDAA and they want us to keep playing. I enjoy the trials, they're laid back comparatively. The random weird games are very fun. The courses are just so tight and slow and Hank is a BIG dog in TDAA compared to most that are Summer sized. I feel like running Hank there may really slow him down in AKC/USDAA. Plus I like running big fast courses better. When Hank was really going in TDAA practice, he was so fast and powerful compared to the usual TDAA dog that he actually ripped the sand bags off the equipment and sent the tunnels flying. I have seen videos of a couple tiny BCs running TDAA and just demolishing the course too even though they're technically in height. Technically a dog several inches bigger than Hank could play TDAA. I have no idea how that would work.


----------



## Laurelin

LoMD13 said:


> The lower jump heights is pretty awesome in NADAC too. USDAA wants Lola to jump 12- ha not happening, we have to do performance.


Summer is supposed to do 12" in USDAA. LOL. She's 9 inches tall and old. So um no.

EDIT: When we did NADAC Summer treated the hoops as basically jump uprights with no bar. She knew exactly what to do. She didn't see a hoop until we were at the trial. That said, NADAC is very much not my thing. If we had more USDAA here, I'd completely avoid AKC too but we don't. So I think with Hank it's going to be AKC and USDAA.


----------



## LoMD13

Yeah Summer and Lola I think are just about the same size. 12 is an insane jump height for a dog this small, I don't know what they're thinking making them that high, it's just not healthy.


----------



## Laurelin

I've had a couple people tell me it's not a big deal since most dogs will have to jump an inch or two over their height but it's different when you realize 3" is a lot more for a tiny dog! 

In USDAA the 6" Chihuahua my trainer runs is supposed to jump 12" too!


----------



## CptJack

...Yeah. I'd like to see their 20" dogs jumping 40" over and over. I mean really.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank is ironically one of very few dogs that will measure into the same height in both AKC and USDAA. 

I have no idea about NADAC...

EDIT: Yep 16" there too. Only TDAA that wants him to jump lower.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie would too, apparently, though 12" instead of 8. 

Honestly, she could do 12 easily I just... like 8. For now anyway.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank could do 12" but I just don't like how low the tire was for him. I'd rather keep the jumps the same across the board in every org.


----------



## CptJack

This picture just cracks me up and I wanted to share.

Practice wasn't bad. Had a couple of really brilliant moments - like me getting my timing right and Kylie getting a really hard contact/tunnel discrimination as a result. 12 weaves are still iffy, husband lying on the ground just barely outside the course is a bit much as far as distractions go, and at one point she skipped a jump and I pulled her over the backside -need to watch and NOT do that in the trial- and she really still kind but I'm not displeased, overall. 

Heck, overall, I'm STILL smug about that discrimination. A lot of the lots more experienced dogs blew that one.


----------



## kadylady

haha love the picture!


----------



## Laurelin

Has anyone dealt with a lot of predicting behavior? Like for example:

I set up jump, jump, curved tunnel where the jumps are in a line and line up with the center of the tunnel (not the entrances). I do 2 reps or so of Hank sending into the left side of the tunnel. Then I want to send into the right. Meanwhile he's like 'I know this!' and totally blows off my signals. Even with me trying to slow him down and be very very deliberate about cuing the right side and trying to collect him after the jump he wants to rocket into the left.

It's obviously an impulse control issue.


----------



## CptJack

According to my instructor, it's fairly typical 'green dog' behavior. They do a lot of exercises that are very obvious when learning handling, and they do a lot of the same exercises and patterns fairly frequently. Learning that the course changes every time is a skill that comes mostly from experience with a constantly changing set up. When Kylie did it we first spread the obstacles WAAAAY out from each other, or just worked with literally like TWO in various patterns, and eventually just had a lot of unnecessary obstacles around, but mostly just - kept things moving. 

Wasn't actually impulse control with her, just her not quite grocking onto the game being 'follow the instruction' instead of 'do the obstacles'. It cleared up with her pretty fast, but yeah, it was a thing for a while. I think it's a thing with most dogs at least a little bit. I also think the only real cure is more experience.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

That picture of Kylie is hilarious!

Puppy Ember had her first "agility class". It's more just a socialization to surfaces and some tiny foundation things. She was a little timid at first.. but really gained confidence as time went on. She really needed it, apparently. My husband handled her and did a great job. I can really see them bonding and it makes me happy.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm so jealous you have an agility husband.


----------



## CptJack

Me too. 

My husband goes with me, but he goes, he watches, he moves equipment, and refuses to do anything else


----------



## Laurelin

I've taken classes with two husband/wife sets. Each runs their own dog and it just seems so FUN.

I have this daydream that I find a super cool border collie (or cattle dog or aussie, I'm not picky!) dude in an agility class. Sadly my classes are always all women or close to it. This new class though is almost all my age, which is WEIRD. I'm usually the youngest BY FAR. Plus one of my high school friends is in it and so it's neat to get to catch up.


----------



## CptJack

We usually have A guy in our class - singular - as a student instead of company for the student. They're all always college aged guys, though.

Also, I'm almost always the oldest in our classes. Fortunately at practices and trials I am back to being about the same age or younger than other people. And I said fortunately because honestly being surrounded by early 20 somethings gives me a complex.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

My husband didn't even know what agility was before he met me. Neither of us have ever wanted kids and he has always liked dogs. The more he was with me, the more he learned about training etc. He came with me to classes and helped out when needed. It didn't take long until he became interested in doing it himself. I have no idea if it will really work out, but he's going to give it a try! I count myself lucky in that regard! 

So.. moral of the story Laurelin.. just make sure he really likes dogs then convert him to the dark side.


----------



## Laurelin

There is hope for me! 

Ok so my 48 second long video.... I keep video-ing us and then realizing I have no memory on my camera so it cuts out. Grrr

Anyways here's the spotted torpedo today:






We DID fix the going in the wrong side of the tunnel stuff but I didn't get it on video. I think A) I cued late and B) he was watching the toy in my left hand a bit. I dunno. Thoughts?

And here is half of an AKC jumpers course on the 9th. Was basically 2 straight lines but gave us good practice with straights.






It's weird. That day I felt like he was being really slow but looking back on it he's really not slow. Just maybe a half a notch down. It was HOT that day.


----------



## CptJack

I think maybe you are a tad slow on giving him the command, since you're giving it while he's in the air above the second jump and it's too late then for him to change the direction he's pointed. Once he comes out of that he's already on the ground and pointed straight at the wrong side of the tunnel. Try giving the command as SOON as you see him over the first jump and committing to taking the second. 

I also feel like you might have gotten a better discrimination if you were FURTHER away from him/the line he was jumping when you stop (ie: didn't cut as far into the circle of the tunnel, and used your whole body to 'push' that way instead of coming to a dead stop and indicating with just your arm. 

I like how I sound like I know what I'm doing/am much better at this. Placement of ME and timing are things I'm working on right now, is all, especially as related to discrimination. Someone will come along and probably have better thoughts/advice, but I'm jittery and throwing my 2 cents, anyway 

You might also think about teaching an 'out' and a 'here' where out is move away from you and in is coming across the line of your body.


----------



## Laurelin

Further to the left? Kind of blocking the wrong side of the tunnel? 

Gah my cues are so slow for such a fast dog. My trainer told me Hank was going to make me clean up my sloppy handling that Summer constantly saved me from. 

He does have an out but maybe we need to work on it with the tunnel some. I'm not too sure we have worked it with the tunnel.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, kind of blocking the far end of the tunnel - not body blocking it but near it (or at least in line with that far side of it) and angling toward the right so he's not seeing an open line to the left hand tunnel entry when he's jumping. Would probably make it easier for you to do a cross and pick him up coming out, too. 

I have a horrible time with timing, period. Kylie gives me a lot more leeway than most dogs, but I'm GRADUALLY improving. It's sad it's taken me this long to make any progress, because you can SEE HER weave in toward me in the space between the obstacle she just took and me indicating the next. I don't even know what I'm going to do with Molly when I get there. Step up my name, I guess, and thank god for the not-speed demon? 

Putting out with obstacles is kind of weirdly hard, at least for me. Kylie gets it fine - which surprises me because it's used for both 'go around the barrel' and 'move away from me and take that obstacle - but I have a hard time remembering to use it. Weirdly, I have no problem with here.


----------



## LoMD13

I think it's something as simple as because you had just done a drill on that side of the tunnel, he thought that was the side he was supposed to go in. He really never even looked at you after he landed the jump, it was like he went "Oh I know what to do! We just did this!" I would think just getting his head after that jump would make a difference.


----------



## CptJack

That's definitely part of it. But really making the discrimination/path you want easy and clear should help, anyway. Will also help him understand 'what I did last time may not be what I do this time'. 

That part I've had to learn first hand, instead of being in the process OF learning.


----------



## Laurelin

We've been using out vs push right lately. That kind of discrimination but I do think we need to work just the tunnel.

Speed is FUN. I've run some very fast dogs before (BC, sheltie, Belgian) but they were all pre-trained. Makes a load of difference haha. Walking that line of trying to keep him fast and having fun but also try to throw in some control.

I do think he is predicting what he thinks I want a lot vs actually paying attention to me (verbals or handling). He's doing that with 'push' a lot. He'll just be like 'Woohgoo! Back side!' even when I don't ask for one.

Crazy boy dog.


----------



## CptJack

This trial is a comedy of errors. Our field was Triple booked. There is a soccer game and police training with guns and dummy dragging happening. Pouring rain. Forty Degrees. But she stayed in the ring, didn't flip at the judge, DID run off to see the bar setter, but came back. Still NQed our single run today, but honestly just not being laughably bad was good enough for me! Plus ,there was a lot more good in the run than the 'wrong side'/off course hoop. 

Plus, we got a ribbon!

Tomorrow might be less ridiculous, if not less wet and cold. At least no cops and soccer teams, I suppose, plus more runs.


----------



## LoMD13

Good for you!! Go Kylie! 

I've never done agility outdoors, I strongly suspect we'd be very bad at it!


----------



## CptJack

Man. Pouring rain. Humans running an obstacle course/exercise thing RIGHT outside the ring (and I mean on top of the entry gate), and a soccer game going on in the field next door? I can not overstate how proud I am of her just STAYING IN THE RING, never mind doing the whole course, even if she did an extra and went to visit one of the ring crew for a second!

I can't wait for tomorrow. I don't necessarily expect her to be tons better, but we get to play more and I have a better idea of what's going on. Plus, my husband had fun building courses and gate stewarding and so on.


----------



## MrsBoats

Congrats on the ribbon!!! I hope tomorrow goes more smoothly and with less crap going on around you guys. 

Every time I've shown in rally or agility outside....it's been rain, mud, and miserable. Lars wouldn't adjust his running in mud...and he wiped out equipment and flew off of whatever else he didn't smash. I was scared he was going to kill himself in the mud. So, I've stopped showing outside in anything. I might change that rule with O because he's able to and will adjust himself to whatever footing is under him. 

But....cold rain at a dog show is The. Absolute. Worst.


----------



## CptJack

I am pretty sure the club is demanding a refund for the field rental - we've had that thing reserved since freaking January, we weren't told about the other bookings and vice versa. There is just no excuse for that, and we didn't pay for it to be surrounded by running screaming kids, balls, and police-in-training running their own obstacle course, pointing guns (not loaded but real), jumping/climbing over walls and barreling through windows (well 'windows' in facade walls) in the 'alley' between our secretary tent and ring. 

I mean... there are distractions and spectators and then there's THAT. 

The rain bothered me less than I expected it to. Then again, I spent a lot of time hiding under assorted tents. Remembering to take dry socks and shoes tomorrow though because gross.


----------



## CptJack

So, ultimately we didn't Q anywhere but both regular runs we NQed for the same reason both times, and both times it was because for whatever reason she was taking the last hoop to 'close' the timer from the backside. I have absolutely no idea why, I have never seen that behavior from her in my life. She ALSO NQed by taking a hoop from the back yesterday - just not the last one. I see many hoops in our future, frankly. We still walked away with ribbons (3 firsts and a fourth) though which I'm magpie enough to admit I loved.

The Touch 'n Go around today was just laughably bad. 

All of Kylie's regular runs were under 40 seconds and over 3 YPS. Her T 'n G one ? 75 seconds, 2 YPS. In our defense, there were only *2* Qs from all the classes combined on that thing. It was exceptionally weird, hard to follow, had tons of discrimination and at one point 180 degree turn (as in sending the dog over the A-frame, out to a hoop, then back around to the tunnel beside the A-frame they just came off). We were one of VERY few people who even finished the course without outright elimination. ...I loved it and I want to try it again. Eventually.

...Probably not May, though. I'm just going to go with 2 runs a day though (and all weavers). The 3rd today was clearly more than she could take with the weather. The START of that TnG round she stayed at the startline and sniffed the ground for a bit.


----------



## Laurelin

Yay Kylie!


----------



## CptJack

I am pretty darned pleased with myself and my dog, to tell the truth. Especially given the level of distractions and the long day and the weather and nerves.

Also, man. That dog can WEAVE. I don't know when that happened, but she rocked those things all weekend.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, hey! I just realized that Kylie was 10, 13, and 17 seconds UNDER SCT on her three regular runs. Maybe I can stop thinking of her as being pokey, now. Yeah, she's not blazing but she's clearly doing all right. 

...I like the feedback you get from the runs, okay? Don't mind me, just over here geeking a little bit.


----------



## dogsule

Hey long time no see....computer issues...trying again...will see if this works better. My computer died back in Jan and I now use either my dh's or my dd's but I typically use Chrome on their computer cause IE doesn't work as well for some reason, had no problem on my computer that died though. For some reason every time I came on this site using Chrome I would get some virus thing pop up and I would have to shut the computer down. Not sure if our virus protection works better on IE or what cause I never had that happen on IE on my computer that died. Trying IE here and we will see how it goes. 


Anyway my question is...for those of you that have made your own agility jumps, how did you do it? I recall seeing a pic here awhile back of one. I want my dh to make some for me so I can practice more at home now that we have a lawn again (vs snow cover). Anyone have any pics or instructions on making your own jumps?


----------



## CptJack

http://www.ammothedachshund.com/2012/03/27/diy-build-your-own-agility-jumps/ 

This set of instructions seems really good.


----------



## dogsule

Oh and Belle and I did an agility trial this weekend, she Q'd in Novice Standard. She seems so unfocused though at trials, seems to be having fun but not focused at all. If you watch this video after she comes off the dog walk it seems to kick in...hey I am supposed to be paying attention. Goofball...cannot wait until she gets to the point where she focuses more on me and what we are doing vs wanting to play and see everything. 


She did not have a good sit stay at the start either, sometimes she is awesome, other times not so much. She blew the last weave pole (keeps doing this on 6 weaves for some reason) and then I totally didn't get her away from them so she backweaved which of course was a fault. Almost lost her after the first jump after the teeter, I think she was going to go visit the barsetter but luckily I got her back to me and she continued. We did not Q in JWW as she went past two jumps (so unfocused) and when I got her back on one of them she jumped it the wrong way. Oh well she did good other than those two jumps and of course the last weave pole again but she did not back weave that time, I got her away and back to the beginning. We have another trial this weekend...hoping to get a title in Novice Standard as she has two Q's so far in that. 


Here is our video of Saturdays AKC Novice Standard course....



Here is a flickr link too in case Photobucket isn't working...https://flic.kr/p/rZRLGH


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> http://www.ammothedachshund.com/2012/03/27/diy-build-your-own-agility-jumps/
> 
> This set of instructions seems really good.



Thanks!! I told my daughter this is what I wanted for Mothers Day....lol!!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> This trial is a comedy of errors. Our field was Triple booked. There is a soccer game and police training with guns and dummy dragging happening. Pouring rain. Forty Degrees. But she stayed in the ring, didn't flip at the judge, DID run off to see the bar setter, but came back. Still NQed our single run today, but honestly just not being laughably bad was good enough for me! Plus ,there was a lot more good in the run than the 'wrong side'/off course hoop.
> 
> Plus, we got a ribbon!
> 
> Tomorrow might be less ridiculous, if not less wet and cold. At least no cops and soccer teams, I suppose, plus more runs.



I don't think Belle would ever be good at agility outside and she would not have been focused at all with all that other commotion going on. Good for Kiley!!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Thanks!! I told my daughter this is what I wanted for Mothers Day....lol!!


I want another 3 jumps, a TDAA a-frame, and about 6 hoops. >.> Maybe another tunnel. And somewhere to store it all. 

And thanks! I'm actually REALLY pleased with her performance. Maybe seems silly given the lack of Qs, but she did WELL for her first trial and made me crazy proud. Plus I'm massively excited for the next one. It's all weavers (for us), unless I decide I want to play with Tunnelers or TnG, but since she seems to need a pretty hefty break after a couple of runs and weavers is in the middle on both days, we're going to stick with that. 

I REALLY need to see if I can track down more trials, though I think after May there's basically nothing going on until September, anyway. Guess we'll see what crops up.


----------



## Laurelin

My dogs have always run slower at trials. I think a lot do because of the stress and atmosphere. With Summer she got better over time and faster. Belle looks great! She got a little distracted but then came right back and started working again. I think that's really good.



So Hank did classes this week and did good overall. We're doing teeter bang game. So SLOW. The other dogs are dropping a full teeter but I don't want to move him very fast. I need a game plan here. He is happily banging and doing 2o/2o on the end of a teeter but we tried rewarding him at the tipping point and he wanted to bail it. I think after all this wedding stuff I can build a teeter from a piece of the barn. We'll see. I may buy a real base because I want totally adjustable.

Hank thinks the table is boring so we're going to work on drive for that.

The a-frame.... Oh boy. The other dogs are all fairly fast but generally lower drive so Hank is getting a lot of extra steps for contacts. I am going to NEED them or he's going to go flying. He's getting good though and will even back target with his back feet if he misses them. Goofy boy.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> My dogs have always run slower at trials. I think a lot do because of the stress and atmosphere. With Summer she got better over time and faster. Belle looks great! She got a little distracted but then came right back and started working again. I think that's really good.
> 
> 
> 
> So Hank did classes this week and did good overall. We're doing teeter bang game. So SLOW. The other dogs are dropping a full teeter but I don't want to move him very fast. I need a game plan here. He is happily banging and doing 2o/2o on the end of a teeter but we tried rewarding him at the tipping point and he wanted to bail it. I think after all this wedding stuff I can build a teeter from a piece of the barn. We'll see. I may buy a real base because I want totally adjustable.
> 
> Hank thinks the table is boring so we're going to work on drive for that.
> 
> The a-frame.... Oh boy. The other dogs are all fairly fast but generally lower drive so Hank is getting a lot of extra steps for contacts. I am going to NEED them or he's going to go flying. He's getting good though and will even back target with his back feet if he misses them. Goofy boy.



Yeah I think a lot of Belle's slowness is due to stress. I actually kept her in the van this time vs kenneling her in the trial building. She stresses over dogs barking (although she is never afraid of other dogs) and the teeter banging, she just has some noise issues. She was very happy being there though and I think I will do this for the next one too. My daughter came along and stayed in the van with her and came in to film when we ran. 


Belle has always been a bit intimidated by the teeter so not sure if she will ever get faster going over that. The fact that she makes in bang and comes on down is huge. Her A frame used to be super fast but a couple times in classes she has gone so fast she sort of sailed over the top and I think it scared her a bit, thus the stop at the top of the A frame in her run. All in all I am happy with it and I think like you said, over time she will get more comfortable and the speed will come.


Hank is so fast, I don't know if I could keep up. I guess I am lucky Belle goes a bit slower yet, gives me time to get better myself!


----------



## Laurelin

I don't know if I can keep up with him either!  We'll get to see how it goes in the future. I'm sure we'll crash and burn quite a bit.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I want another 3 jumps, a TDAA a-frame, and about 6 hoops. >.> Maybe another tunnel. And somewhere to store it all.
> 
> And thanks! I'm actually REALLY pleased with her performance. Maybe seems silly given the lack of Qs, but she did WELL for her first trial and made me crazy proud. Plus I'm massively excited for the next one. It's all weavers (for us), unless I decide I want to play with Tunnelers or TnG, but since she seems to need a pretty hefty break after a couple of runs and weavers is in the middle on both days, we're going to stick with that.
> 
> I REALLY need to see if I can track down more trials, though I think after May there's basically nothing going on until September, anyway. Guess we'll see what crops up.



Yeah I have to get a proper size tunnel yet too but the jumps will help for now. I would like for him to build me weave poles too that I can use inside or outside (not the push in the ground ones). If I have jumps, a tunnel and the weaves I will be good!


There are trials at the place closest to me (an hour away) once or twice a month and there are other trials further out too. For now I am sticking to the one place. After the one this weekend there isn't another trial until the second weekend in June. I think I will bite the bullet and go both Sat and Sun to this one as it is our Kennel Clubs trial, which I will be joining soon.


----------



## CptJack

Distance handling, even with Kylie, is my friend. Kylie isn't crazy fast (see also 3YPS, though that included some visits to ring crew and wrong courses/corrections) but she's fast enough that I can't stay with her. Molly, if we ever get there, it's going to become an even more important thing. That's a LONG way off, if ever, though. Kylie could still use a bit more independence on contacts, though. 

...fortunately, we don't have a teeter to worry about 

As an aside, it's really funny but I REALLY expected to see some signs of stress from Kylie and I saw nothing at all, either high or low, until I asked for a third run in a row and she was sniffing and reluctant to come off the start line. Before that point, I really didn't notice... anything. I guess maybe it's time for me to readjust my view of her, again.


----------



## LoMD13

My teeter that I built is extremely adjustable! It's a lot slower than a real teeter though so it doesn't have the same bang to it.


----------



## Laurelin

Do you have blueprints? I really need to build one but I'm SO not crafty. And I can't carry a long enough board in my car. :/


----------



## kadylady

First of all.... Congrats to CptJack and Kylie!!! And congrats to dogsule and Belle!!!! Great job to you both! That was a really nice run dogsule! Disconnects happen, but she came back to you and worked so nicely. And Cptjack, I've had many runs that I'm thrilled with that have been non-Q runs. Not silly at all! 

We trialed in CPE this weekend. Zoey went 4/5 in Q's. First class of the day we did the first 4 obstacles and then she stopped and rolled around in the turf.... She really likes turf lol Apparently that's not a fault though, we still Q'd! After that she was really off/on again. We had decent runs, we had a nice snooker run, a painful slow jackpot run with not enough points, then last class of the day she rocks out our fastest Standard run ever. It was a really nice course with a long flowing line at the end and I just ran as she followed and flew. It was really great.

After thinking about it and bouncing some ideas off my instructor I think we have 2 things going on. One, she's still out of shape from having so much time off the last several months, between 2 injuries. We've worked out a new conditioning plan to get her back into shape. Second, a general stress issue and contributing to that is me not having a good ring entrance plan. Our last (and best) run of the day I warmed up her before our walk through because I knew I was the 2nd dog in the ring when the class started. I took her outside, we were trotting around, I got her all amped up and tugging, then put her away. Did my walk through, went and got her out again, took her outside, trotted a lap or 2, then timed it perfectly so we went almost straight into the ring, setup and went. Made a huge difference I think. So my instructor is going to help me play with my warm-up/ring entrance plan. I think it will help. 

We do AKC this weekend at her favorite place ever (they have the BEST turf in her mind lol) and all I'm hoping for is a fast, happy dog. I hate when she stresses. I could care less about Q's and weaves and contacts this weekend, I hope she gets zoomies! This is the one place she has gotten zoomies (both of the times we have been there) and the one place where I have to fricken haul butt to keep up with her.

Anyways...haven't uploaded my videos yet but here's a picture that she wanted no part of.


----------



## LoMD13

Laur, I think thsee are the instructons I used. It says it has 3 heights, but you can make as many holes for heights as you want really. 

http://m.wikihow.com/Build-an-Adjustable-Dog-Agility-Seesaw


----------



## CptJack

Exactly, Kadylady. For a first trial where I was worried about her freaking out at the judge or running out of the ring, even before we had all that (heavy!) distraction, to have 2 of her runs be clean, fast, and happy to the last obstacle? YEP. Thrilled to the moon. 

Anyway, practices start up again without interruption for May, and I've got a few private lessons to work on discrimination coming up before the end of May trial. Then Kylie's off for the summer, and it's just me, Molly, and Stuff.


----------



## kadylady

What weave problem? No idea what you are talking about?!






We had a phenomenal practice last night. Like, pick my jaw up off the floor practice! Clearly the issue is not her understanding of the weaves. Zoey was rocking last night. She was so high she was running off with the toys and tugging like crazy, rough housing with me... she even bit my arm... 3 times!! Zoey! Zoey does not bite in excitement. Ever. And she did last night. And they were the best bites ever! My friend that was taping was like "um did you get a new dog?!" lol So happy with last night. Also, hard to tell in the video but there a string cheese sticks (still in the wrapper) strewn about the 2 sets of 6 poles....and she never even looked at them, just kept right on weaving!! (That's part of our proofing exercises, weaving past whatever is in your path) We start class on Thursday (haven't had class since February!!) and then trial Friday and Saturday. If she runs just half as happy as she was last night that will be a win in my book.

Also, here is 2 of our runs from this past Saturday. Note the differences.


----------



## parus

You guys, I know this is a dim bulb question, but I've had trouble finding a nice clear resource on it. What different types of agility courses are there (for competition), and what does each include? 

AKC is probably the only officiating body I'm interested in, since they're literally the only game in town where I live.

We've been having a lot of fun with agility and I think it'd be fun to try competing (not particularly competitively, lol, since I have a huge lumbering dog and we're just beginners, but for fun), but I loaaaaaaathe the dog walk (and, to a lesser extent, the A-frame). Maybe I'm being a helicopter-owner but I feel like Cassius is too big and heavy and middle-aged to do them safely.


----------



## CptJack

AKC does jumpers with weaves, I think, which has no contact obstacles (just you know, I guess obviously, jumping and weaves). 

Otherwise, I think their only 'game' is Time 2 Beat, which has all the equipment, and regular/stand which obviously has all the stuff. 

That said, AKC isn't my game so I don't know a ton.


----------



## CptJack

Whoops, for got FAST - which is another strategy game. 

http://www.courteouscanine.com/a-quick-guide-to-agility-organizations/ - this link might be helpful?


----------



## kadylady

AKC has 2 "regular" classes and 2 games classes.

Standard has everything. Jumpers With Weaves (JWW) is just jumps, weaves and tunnels.

Time To Beat (T2B) is a numbered course, has no dog walk but will have an AF and/or Teeter, taken up to 2 times each, for a total of at least 2 contact performances.

FAST you make your own course to collect points, I know that there is usually a contact obstacle in there but couldn't find any specific rules on it. I've seen the AF most in FAST the times I've done it.


----------



## parus

Tunnels, weaves, and jumps would be right up our alley! I mean, we suck at weaves, but all beginners suck at weaves so I'm not too worried about that, lol.

I don't know if I'm excessively babying him, but I do feel sort of obligated to be careful with a giant-sized six-year-old novice dog, you know?


----------



## CptJack

You guys! Kylie grabbed her leash and brought it to me to tug during our lesson today!

I mean good lesson overall, got to work on discriminations and, ironic since TrainingJunkie was just talking about it, collection into weaves, but mostly *she grabbed her leash and brought it to me for tug*. Who is this dog? She has never done that before. I was so thrilled by it. 

In other news, actual lesson was kind of cool. I got to play with seeing what her natural responses to what I do are, and play with and use them to work on both the collection and discrimination. Seriously neat, and I can't wait to do more with it - between working off-side weaves, which are UGLY.


----------



## Laurelin

I feel like I should win a prize. I showed up an HOUR AND A HALF early to my class this week. ROFL To be fair I was coming off a bachelorette party night. 

My trainer was awesome and we did a 30 minute private lesson between her class with her dogs and my usual class and then I left. We did a lot of work on the teeter and wobble board. He did great on the baby teeter and seems to maybe *fingers crossed* be getting over his fear. She thinks once he figures out how he can control the teeter he will be fine. I am really hopeful because he did just great this week!

Contacts are great if we're slowing him down. If he's fast he is catapulting off his contacts. Slowing him down is hard. 

We did some good, more advanced handling and some playing with getting him to auto-down on the table. 

My trainer is a good friend and I love her classes but she thinks we need to switch to a more advanced class with the other (head) trainer. I agree that we are probably needing more challenging exercises but I freaking love the dogs and people in my class right now! Ugh I want to keep seeing them! One of my high school friends is in the class and there's a lot of people my age for once instead of 20+ years older than me. Feeling a little torn about it all. She told me she was going to talk to the head trainer to see about moving us up to a more advanced group.


----------



## kadylady

We had one heck of an emotional roller coaster weekend. I'm exhausted.

Friday went like this...run 1, crazy fast with zoomies! Run 2, good except for the major fail at the weaves, run 3, omg this judge is stalking me and I can no longer function, huge ball of stress. Saturday....run 1, nice, easy fast run. Run 2, great! minus the 2 weave refusals, but at least she did them right! Run 3, not so horrible, then big ball of stress, followed by not so horrible. Gah! I felt like I was running 3 different dogs all weekend long! 

I'm so happy with her FAST runs, they were fast! And we picked up her Novice FAST title. I'm really happy with her JWW runs. The only issue was the weaves, other than that she was running really nice. I'm so sad about her Standard runs, and not because of any mistakes made, but because of how stressed she was. Standard was in the same ring all weekend, JWW/FAST is the other ring. Friday's Std was judged by the male judge and he moved a lot and it seriously felt like he was stalking us. And she just could not function. It got to the point where I was like we just have to get out of this ring, and I wish I had gotten there sooner. She just could not handle it. And it made me super sad. Saturday the man was judging in the JWW/FAST ring and she did okay with him, but he didn't move around like he did in Std, in fact we had good runs! The woman that she was fine with on Fri was judging in the Std ring and she still stressed. I wish I had pulled her from Standard and just ended on a good note, but I thought she would be okay. Gah! Her stressing makes me so sad, to the point where I was ready to just quit agility all together after our Std run on Sat, because I felt like she hated this game that I was forcing her to play. Thankfully my instructor was there to help me pull it together and I'm working on a new game plan. We have a whole month before our next trial, and the next one is CPE. We will be doing a lot of practice away from home, out of our comfort zone between now and then.

Fridays runs





Saturdays runs


----------



## Laurelin

Yay Zoey! Don't give up! We all have good and bad days. Stressing dogs are really hard though sometimes. Maybe it was just an off day though? She doesn't look bad though overall to me. Trey to focus on the good runs y'all had (and they were really good!) Need to add your FAST title to your sig. 

We are hosting USDAA regionals this weekend! Should be a fun show and I'm slated to work all day Sunday at it. Might try to drag Hank along.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Yay Zoey! Don't give up! We all have good and bad days. Stressing dogs are really hard though sometimes. Maybe it was just an off day though? She doesn't look bad though overall to me. Trey to focus on the good runs y'all had (and they were really good!) Need to add your FAST title to your sig.


Thank you Laurelin. No she's doesn't look bad at all. And when I go back and watch, our Std run on the 2nd day isn't as bad as my memory keeps making it, the first part was good, and the ending was good. Just that back half of the ring stressed her out. I'm really happy with all of our FAST runs and our JWW runs and have to keep reminding myself of those ones! I'm actually really proud of my handling in our JWW run on day 2, it was probably the best handling I have ever had and if you take out the weaves we were so in sync on that run.

Thanks for the reminder! Added Novice FAST title to our sig


----------



## CptJack

Molly is going to be moving on to beginner agility, starting June 9th. I'm not at all sure about the heat, but we'll see how it goes. She is definitely, finally, ready to do more than foundations - though I have no plans at ALL of entering her into a trial before she's at least 2. Will probably even flip her back to beginner again at the end of this one so she gets it twice, too, before moving on to intermediate and then private lessons. We'll see how it goes, though. She's going to need a lot more maturity than she has now, and frankly I'm not in any kind of rush. I'd kind of like to get Kylie out of Novice before I start anything with Molly, anyway.

...really looking forward to doing new material with her, though. Kind of bored to tears after *five months* of foundations stuff. 

Kylie, meanwhile, is sort of surreal for me. Like I can't believe we're doing what we're doing. It really feels like yesterday that I was bemoaning her being slow, unwilling to move away from me and just working on basic obstacle performance. Now we're working on things like collection into weaves and really independent performance at a distance and her working 20 feet ahead of me? When and how did this happen? So weird.


----------



## kadylady

Skye did some baby agility stuff last night. I haven't really done any agility-esq things with her the last couple weeks and she was so ON!! She was vibrating and it was awesome. We did some teeter banging, did a few tunnels and did some work on a stanchion. That dog....she was intense last night! She was also tugging like her life depended on it. Then we did some recalls with a friend and her dog for distraction work...Skye never even looked at the other dog (who is her BFF that she loves to play with). She was in her stay and was boring holes through me with those eyes..."Call me mom, do it, call me now...." lol Hopefully *crossing fingers* timing will work out perfect and the club will offer the Intro class in the fall when she turns a year old. And better get my butt in gear between now and then because agility with Skye is going to be a whole 'nother monster than agility with Zoey. Like, I'm pretty sure they will be complete, total opposites. Luckily Zoey has started prepping me for that by me never knowing which Zoey I have at the start line.


----------



## CptJack

I hear you, on the differences. Kylie's come a long way and I don't really recognize her from the dog I started with but Molly's... different entirely and I'm going to be learning a whole heck of a lot along the way.

Also sent instructor an email and said 'If you don't think we'll be too disruptive or too big a pain' re: signing up for Beginner classes and got "Okay! Let's do it!!!' and I... keep laughing. Largely because of how tentative I sound and how enthusiastic she sounds.


----------



## Laurelin

Yes, agility is very different with Hank and Summer. Easier in a lot of ways and harder in others. Summer and Mia were also very different. It's always fun with a new dog! Completely new adventure every time! The biggest thing with Hank is just that I have to be more thoughtful about my handling. He requires a lot more handling skills than Summer but Summer requires a lot more drive building skills. Should be a decent trainer after both of them!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Ember rocked her little puppy agility classes tonight. She walked over ladders, wobble boards and mini teeters like they were solid ground. She also didn't fear snap at anything tonight and got lots of cookies for sniffing other dogs. I saw a whole lot more confidence and it gives me hope this puppy won't be evil. I'm kind of jealous I won't be the one handling her..

I really wish my first agility dog could have been more like a Kylie/Summer. I don't process new information quickly and Kairi demands I know what I'm doing, otherwise she goes bye bye wherever she wants on the course. It sure is a fun ride though!


----------



## Sibe

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Ember rocked her little puppy agility classes tonight...


 That is so fantastic!! What a good puppy.


----------



## CptJack

Tonight we mostly worked on weaves and discrimination some more and it was okayish. Did better at the discrimination than collection for weaves and her off side weaves are still a little clunky. Nothing major, just stuff we're working on. 

What is major is suddenly she's... whirling around and barking at me when I'm not fast enough, am confusing or pull her out to reset her for weaves. Not shutting down like she might have in the past, but spinning around and 'yelling' at me. I don't really know what's happening to this dog, lately, but between that and the tugging I just almost don't even know what to do with her. It's like she's suddenly be replaced by another dog. 

AWESOME to see, but confusing and I'm having to have to figure out things I thought I'd already worked out.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> We had one heck of an emotional roller coaster weekend. I'm exhausted.
> 
> Friday went like this...run 1, crazy fast with zoomies! Run 2, good except for the major fail at the weaves, run 3, omg this judge is stalking me and I can no longer function, huge ball of stress. Saturday....run 1, nice, easy fast run. Run 2, great! minus the 2 weave refusals, but at least she did them right! Run 3, not so horrible, then big ball of stress, followed by not so horrible. Gah! I felt like I was running 3 different dogs all weekend long!
> 
> I'm so happy with her FAST runs, they were fast! And we picked up her Novice FAST title. I'm really happy with her JWW runs. The only issue was the weaves, other than that she was running really nice. I'm so sad about her Standard runs, and not because of any mistakes made, but because of how stressed she was. Standard was in the same ring all weekend, JWW/FAST is the other ring. Friday's Std was judged by the male judge and he moved a lot and it seriously felt like he was stalking us. And she just could not function. It got to the point where I was like we just have to get out of this ring, and I wish I had gotten there sooner. She just could not handle it. And it made me super sad. Saturday the man was judging in the JWW/FAST ring and she did okay with him, but he didn't move around like he did in Std, in fact we had good runs! The woman that she was fine with on Fri was judging in the Std ring and she still stressed. I wish I had pulled her from Standard and just ended on a good note, but I thought she would be okay. Gah! Her stressing makes me so sad, to the point where I was ready to just quit agility all together after our Std run on Sat, because I felt like she hated this game that I was forcing her to play. Thankfully my instructor was there to help me pull it together and I'm working on a new game plan. We have a whole month before our next trial, and the next one is CPE. We will be doing a lot of practice away from home, out of our comfort zone between now and then.
> 
> Fridays runs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saturdays runs





I know not what you wanted but those zoomies made me lol!! Still lots of good stuff in those runs!!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> http://www.ammothedachshund.com/2012/03/27/diy-build-your-own-agility-jumps/
> 
> This set of instructions seems really good.




Thanks so much for this link....look what I got for Mothers Day!!!!


IMG_0123a by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## dogsule

So on May 2nd we had another trial. I only entered Saturday again and just AKC Standard and JWW. Our standard run was pretty awful. Belle was totally NOT paying attention to me at all! At one point you come down the A frame and ahead of you is the last jump however you are supposed to turn and go somewhere else first. Belle of course jumped over the last jump with the timer and then.....she ran out of the ring!! Door wasn't shut right and out she went. OMG what a little stinker! JWW thankfully was much better and we did Q in it, however it took until the 5th jump before she decided to play with me...watch the video....I am proud of her weaves this time though as normally she blows the last pole for some reason....





and a flickr link in case the photobucket doesn't work...
https://flic.kr/p/sbgSPg


20150502_160258 (2) by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## pawsaddict

Still working on weaves with Nova (2×2 method). She weaves 4 poles no problem, but I can't for the life of me transition her to weave 6 poles. It's like all of a sudden she has no idea where the entry is and she pops out all the time. Is there an in-between step that I'm missing? I even tried using just 5 poles this morning...same thing :\


----------



## CptJack

Weaves are the bane of my existence right now. Entries, exits, collection, off-sides and angles with distance, 12 instead of 6 (she'll do two sets of 6 but put them together and she wants to skip poles). All I can actually suggest is more separation between the set of 4 and set of 2, reward between, and then to drop the between reward and bring them into line slowly. Basically treat it as two commands, don't name it, and then chain the two together.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, and I don't remember where I picked it up but sometimes dogs find constant feedback for weaves helpful at early stages - some people clap their hands, some people make a weird trilling sound, some people chant 'yes yes yes' (I do that one - did with 6, do again while trying to get 12, because otherwise, yes, she leaves them) - just something that means "KEEP WEAVING".


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Weaves are the bane of my existence right now. Entries, exits, collection, off-sides and angles with distance, 12 instead of 6 (she'll do two sets of 6 but put them together and she wants to skip poles). All I can actually suggest is more separation between the set of 4 and set of 2, reward between, and then to drop the between reward and bring them into line slowly. Basically treat it as two commands, don't name it, and then chain the two together.





CptJack said:


> Oh, and I don't remember where I picked it up but sometimes dogs find constant feedback for weaves helpful at early stages - some people clap their hands, some people make a weird trilling sound, some people chant 'yes yes yes' (I do that one - did with 6, do again while trying to get 12, because otherwise, yes, she leaves them) - just something that means "KEEP WEAVING".


I know! I'm trying not to get frustrated with weaves, but I definitely got that way this morning. We just moved on to fetch...where neither of us had to really think, haha.

Thanks for the suggestions! Definitely going to give them a try for a while. I really like the idea of offsetting the third set of poles and slowly bringing them in line with the rest. We have another class starting up by the end of the month, and I would really like her to be comfortable weaving six poles by then. It might not happen (that's okay too), but it's what my goal is.

I tend to just say "weave!" in what is probably a super annoying voice over and over (poor neighbors, haha). I hope that's okay....


----------



## CptJack

I think off setting them is actually supposed to be how you do 2X2. I'll be honest, while I'm doing 2x2 with Molly, I didn't with Kylie, so my understanding there is pretty limited. I probably should have, but weaves aren't part of our classes, anywhere, so I just sort of made it up as I went along. 

...We'd probably have fewer issues with 12 and offsides if I'd been more knowledgeable myself.


----------



## pawsaddict

Yeah, I began with two poles (at 8 and 2, I believe). Then added another set at 8 and 2, and then slowly brought them all in line. But from videos I've watched, people just seem to add the third set of poles with no problems. Right in line with the other sets and off the dog goes, happily weaving like nobody's business. I never even thought to add the third set in the same way I did the previous set...I was just wondering, "why can't we do that? What is so different about adding another set once you have the basic concept down?" But I clearly need to break it down more with Nova.

The classes I have done taughy weaves...but with food luring. I wanted to try a different way, so I am sort of muddling through this via YouTube videos.


----------



## Laurelin

@dogsule I need to watch your video when I get home.

After Hank got 2 sets with 2x2s, I switched to channels. Idk but I like 2x2s for entry work and channels for speed and such. We're still proofing 6 right now but I'm not too worried. 

Have you done a lot of around the clock entries and stuff? How open are the set of 4?


----------



## pawsaddict

I have been trying to do as many different entry angles as possible. Sometimes I will run with her. Sometimes I won't. 

The poles are set 20" from each other. I read that they can be 20" or 24". Wasn't sure which one to go with...so i picked the smaller of the two, just in case.


----------



## Laurelin

You want 24" for pretty much every organization I am aware of. Tdaa is smaller but then that won't be a problem For you since she's a bigger dog. Usdaa and akc are both 24". It lessens the strain on their backs. 

By open I mean are they straight on in a line or angled at all where she can see a 'channel'?

From people I know that do comprehensive 2x2s you really need the DVD to get the nuances. Personally I've had great luck with hank and channels.


----------



## Laurelin

Bella looks great! She really picked up speed at the end and her weaves were fantastic!


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> You want 24" for pretty much every organization I am aware of. Tdaa is smaller but then that won't be a problem or you since she's a bigger dog. Usdaa and akc are both 24". It lessens the strain on their backs.
> 
> By open I mean are they straight on in a line or angled at all where she can see a 'channel'?
> 
> From people I know that do comprehensive 2x2s you really need the DVD to get the nuances. Personally I've had great luck with hank and channels.


Okay. Thanks! I'll change them to 24". The 4 poles were are using are straight and in line with one another now. I tried to just add another set of poles on and in line with the others (like they seem to do in online videos...unless I am missing something), and that was a clear no go for Nova.

I haven't ever tried the channels. Would it be bad at this point to create a channel with the last set of poles and slowly get them in line? Would it be better to stick with 2x2 and offset the last set? 

Yeah, I am starting to think that investing in the DVD would have been a good idea, haha.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our weather is finally nice enough to set up all our Agility equipment. My sister has a nice big yard so we set it up down there. She only lives a few minutes away from me. We have two short tunnels, one long tunnel, a dog walk, teeter, chute and several jumps, a tire jump, plus an A-frame which we have not set up yet.

The dog walk is only usable by the small dogs as it is too narrow for Kris but all the rest of the equipment is good for everyone. I am going to concentrate on Lucy right now, she was in one trial in the fall of 2013 but except for some practices she did not compete last year. We still have our practices indoors on Saturdays which I usually take Remmy and Lucy to. There is just my sister with her Rat Terrier, a Miniature Poodle, 3 Papillons and a cattle dog there on Saturdays. As they are mostly small dogs, I do Agility with Kris during our Obedience practices on Wednesdays, Thursday nights and Saturdays.

This is Lucy at her 2013 trial.


----------



## Laurelin

> There is just my sister with her Rat Terrier, a Miniature Poodle, 3 Papillons and a cattle dog there on Saturdays


this sounds like my group of dogs!

I dunno if it's a GOOD idea to switch to channels but that's how I did weaves with Hank. xD


----------



## LoMD13

Figured out our main issue with backside jumps-my signals were so high that Lola was slowing waaaay down to look for them. Lowered my hands way down, and she was much smoother and more enthusiastic


----------



## CptJack

I am moving over here for Molly stuff as of now. Apparently, her reactivity has gone away for at least a while. beginner agility with obstacles and all starts 6-9. Should be fun. My personal goal for the break is to teach the dog to jump. Right now she's kangaroo hopping the freaking things.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> You want 24" for pretty much every organization I am aware of. Tdaa is smaller but then that won't be a problem For you since she's a bigger dog. Usdaa and akc are both 24". It lessens the strain on their backs.
> 
> By open I mean are they straight on in a line or angled at all where she can see a 'channel'?
> 
> From people I know that do comprehensive 2x2s you really need the DVD to get the nuances. Personally I've had great luck with hank and channels.


Our classes here really start with no foundations. I taught Belle the weaves myself with just making her weave in an out of the 12 normally set up weaves poles before and after class cause we rarely worked on weaves in beginning agility. We started agility in Feb/March and she had the weaves down by July, it just suddenly clicked one day that she knew what I wanted her to do. After that in class the trainer would let Belle run the weaves when we ran our small courses but the other beginning dogs didn't normally do it. She moved out of the beginners class in Sept mostly due to there being no other beginners at the time but she fit right in with the class that already ran trials.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Bella looks great! She really picked up speed at the end and her weaves were fantastic!


Thanks! It was fun once she decided she was going to pay attention! Our next trail isn't until June 14/15 so hopefully we don't have this air headed start again. LOL!


----------



## CptJack

The practice course tonight was so. much. fun. 3 discriminations, 4 tunnels *in a row*, and just wicked fast and flow and fun, fun, fun. Kylie actually got all the discriminations (weirdness) but all those tunnels kind of changed my mind on how I feel about tunnelers. May have to day of entry a couple of those, just for the excitement. If Kylie still has any brain at all, of course.

ETA: As an aside, we're entered in all 4 novice weavers runs for the weekend. And I'm starting to regret that, because in working on improving her weaves (more difficult entries, angles, collections, etc) she's gotten a lot less reliable. Don't get me wrong, they're better, but I feel like I have half torn apart my basic, easy entry, 6, right side, weaves in favor of getting the harder stuff. May actually take it down a notch for the trial itself. Guess we'll see, once we're there, just how safe I feel the need to play it.


----------



## So Cavalier

:whoo:Baxter did his first set of 12 straight weave poles!:whoo:


----------



## kadylady

ah weaves....they are our Achilles agility heel at the moment.


----------



## CptJack

I really feel like the real game in agility is that every time you fix one thing, something else falls apart. So it's really, really, self-sustaining. But seriously, she was weaving fine, even on 12 poles. Now she's hitting more difficult entries and angles and approaches and collecting better but popping out or skipping poles. I just can't win.

(Someone suggested my husband, who hauls equipment and helps out and is usually around, run a dog. He stared at them and then laughed and informed them that no WAY does he have the patience necessary to train a dog for this and would hit snag one and quit forever. Trainer reminded him of this while he was 'arm chair quarter-backing' me at practice last night. I love that woman.)


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> I really feel like the real game in agility is that every time you fix one thing, something else falls apart. So it's really, really, self-sustaining. But seriously, she was weaving fine, even on 12 poles. Now she's hitting more difficult entries and angles and approaches and collecting better but popping out or skipping poles. I just can't win.


Most definitely! Always something to work on. I feel your frustration though...Zoey can hit the most difficult entries I can think up and just nail the heck out the weaves, with speed even, weaving past food and toys... at our club. Trials....what weaves?? I have no idea what you are talking about, I have never seen these pole things before!!


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Most definitely! Always something to work on. I feel your frustration though...Zoey can hit the most difficult entries I can think up and just nail the heck out the weaves, with speed even, weaving past food and toys... at our club. Trials....what weaves?? I have no idea what you are talking about, I have never seen these pole things before!!


Kylie did that to me once, though not at a trial it was at a new location. Trainer said 'show me your weaves'. I took her to them, set her up, said weave and - Yep, no indication of ever having done a weave before in her LIFE. She has also done that to me with tunnels. "I don't know what to do with that!!! Am I supposed to jump over it? Go around? WHAT?!!" ...seriously, dog? SERIOUSLY? 

Kylie really, really, loves weaves. She's fast and enthusiastic and adores them. I think they're actually her favorite obstacle. I'm kind of scared that trying to fix this is going to lead to her not liking them anymore. She's not easily discouraged and deflated anymore, but there's a line there and I'm terrified I'm going to cross it. Right now she just 'yells' at me if I reset her, but I realllly don't want to turn her off them. So probably tearing it back to 6 and easy and rebuild during the few months we have off from trialing.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> Kylie did that to me once, though not at a trial it was at a new location. Trainer said 'show me your weaves'. I took her to them, set her up, said weave and - Yep, no indication of ever having done a weave before in her LIFE. She has also done that to me with tunnels. "I don't know what to do with that!!! Am I supposed to jump over it? Go around? WHAT?!!" ...seriously, dog? SERIOUSLY?
> 
> Kylie really, really, loves weaves. She's fast and enthusiastic and adores them. I think they're actually her favorite obstacle. I'm kind of scared that trying to fix this is going to lead to her not liking them anymore. She's not easily discouraged and deflated anymore, but there's a line there and I'm terrified I'm going to cross it. Right now she just 'yells' at me if I reset her, but I realllly don't want to turn her off them. So probably tearing it back to 6 and easy and rebuild during the few months we have off from trialing.


Zoey also has a very fine line of deflation and just "too much". I've gone back to 6 for the majority of our training sessions. 6 allows me to do more repetitions without overloading her (both physically and mentally) and work on the harder stuff without as much pressure. Also, since my training plan consists of practicing the weaves in different places, it's easier to transport 6 vs 12 lol I will still practice 12 at the club where she is comfortable and can do them well, but definitely 6 for the harder stuff for now.


----------



## Laurelin

I am so mad! I missed our club's first time hosting regionals. Looking back at the winners and there were some really amazing/accomplished teams there. Wish I could have gone but we had graduations and mother's day and grandma in town. Oh and tornados and stuff.


----------



## pawsaddict

I hate weaves so much right now!!! I spaced the poles out to 24" (from 20"), and offset the third set of poles. Nova is still a mess when extra poles are around, missing entries and jumping over the poles. So today I set the poles up channel style. She was a bit confused at first, but quickly caught on that I just want her to run through the channel. I just feel like I need to start right back at square one. Bahhhhh!!!! So frustrating.


----------



## CptJack

I swear to god, and maintain, weaves fall apart if you look at them cross-eyed. Gotta be the most frustrating thing to teach the *dogs*, as opposed for having to teach the handler. 

Molly's finished with Foundations and off until 6-9. That meant, in theory, the only agility I was really going to be doing were practices/run throughs for the trial we're hosting at the end of the month. I came home last night and said, "YAY! I have a whole week off!" I meant that. It's been a crazy month with Molly and Kylie both going. Then I got an email going 'Hey, you want a private lesson on Saturday?'. I didn't even pause before I replied with "YES!!!"

Give me all the private lessons. I LOVE private lessons. I like the practices and run throughs and I like classes, but for pure fun and getting things done and making progress? Bring on the privates. Maybe we'll get somewhere with the weave nonsense.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> I came home last night and said, "YAY! I have a whole week off!" I meant that. It's been a crazy month with Molly and Kylie both going. Then I got an email going 'Hey, you want a private lesson on Saturday?'. I didn't even pause before I replied with "YES!!!"
> 
> Give me all the private lessons. I LOVE private lessons. I like the practices and run throughs and I like classes, but for pure fun and getting things done and making progress? Bring on the privates. Maybe we'll get somewhere with the weave nonsense.


I love my private lessons so much too. And I haven't had one in months. Between my schedule and her schedule it just hasn't worked out. But her class finally started back up 2 weeks ago and it's just 3 of us who are all good friends anyway so it's kind of like a semi private anyway lol we have 2 weeks left and then a break until after July 4th, so hoping to sneak in some privates before then. 

Also, I'm pretty sure that the club will be offering our Intro class in the fall and Skye will be old enough to take it!!!! Holy crap!!! I am so not prepared for 2 dogs in agility yet!


----------



## CptJack

Private lessons for me are pretty rare. I'd do them every week if I could, but she's got a dedicated group of regulars who take up most of her available time. I'm getting a lot more than I used to, though, and will jump at them every chance I get. The level of feedback, personalization, and stuff is great, but so is just getting to hang out and chat without the chaos of all the other people and dogs and competition for the field (not really competition, but awareness that other people need to use it so worrying about being polite). It's a little bit surprising to me how much I love them, since initially I was really nervous about the idea. I just wasn't sure I wanted that much attention. As it turns out, I definitely want that much attention, GIMME.

Molly's beginner classes start the 9th. Kylie, fortunately, is done with agility for the summer May 31st, so it'll just be me and one dog for a little while. I think Molly actually might finish with classes before Kylie starts going to trial again. Pretty sure, though, that I'm going to have to make some tough calls in 2016 about how to handle things with them. I would prefer not running two dogs in the same classes if I can help it, even at different height classes. I'll figure it out, but it's going to be strange. Heck, the idea that my 'baby' is getting ready to hit equipment and I need to start thinking about registering her (and as what, and measuring) is strange already.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I swear to god, and maintain, weaves fall apart if you look at them cross-eyed.


So true! Haha.

Have a blast at your private lesson!


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> So true! Haha.
> 
> Have a blast at your private lesson!


I'm sure I will. I'm also sure this is going to involve 'so I watched you at practice Wednesday, and WTF ARE YOU DOING?!' about at least one thing. Whether that is whatever I'm doing that's killing her weaves, my atrocious timing, or the disaster where Kylie took the same tunnel an actual 6 times in a row before carrying on with the course, I don't know yet, but that's part of the fun. 

Seriously. My timing SUUUUUCKs. It's gotten better when I pay very close attention to it but sometimes, man. SOMETIMES my brain is just not far enough ahead of her to be right.

(I just want to chat agility today. Can y'all tell?)


----------



## Kyllobernese

Have gone down to my Sisters three days in a row in the mornings now before it gets too hot and practiced Agility. Today we set up a line of six jumps ending at the table and are starting to get both Lucy and Ecko to run on ahead of us and get their treat on the table. Our main objective right now is teaching them to follow our directions as both of them know to do all the obstacles.

My sister took Ecko (her Rat Terrier) to a trial and got her first Q in jumpers and just missed on the Snooker class by a few seconds in time as she had run past a jump and had to be brought back so lost time.

Tonight I will be going in for an Obedience class with Kris and will run her through the Agility equipment as well. She is finally getting her weaves down pretty good.


----------



## kadylady

We had an awesome class last night!  Speed circles with tunnels and contacts! I asked my instructor to do crazy things at the weaves because Zoey loves her so much. She never even looked at her! Unfortunately I don't have a video of the run where she did a cartwheel at the weaves for us lol So happy with her speed and her enthusiasm. Also, I coughed once and she decided that was a good enough release cue on the AF, so every contact after that my instructor was like "cough!" So we proofed me coughing! 






Baby dog also got a mini lesson last night after class. We did some tunneling, tunnel to tunnel and working on not taking tunnels until directed to, going past tunnel entrances. Also did some "it's yer choice" with not grabbing the toy until directed after she snatched it out of the back of my pants while we were running. Did a little bit of 2o2o at the end of the DW. That whole handstand trick has turned out to teach her a really great understanding of 2o2o! lol The best thing last night though was my instructor had her dog out and had finished running him and he was just kind of walking and laying around out on the floor with us and she made so many good choices to stick with me. She thought about trying to go play with him several times, she would take a couple bounds leaps towards him and then spin around and coming running back to play with me instead. Made me very happy!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Zoey sure looks great, Kadylady! There is definitely an enthusiasm/speed increase since the last videos I've watched of you and her. You must be so proud!


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Zoey sure looks great, Kadylady! There is definitely an enthusiasm/speed increase since the last videos I've watched of you and her. You must be so proud!


Thank you so much!! I am so incredibly proud of her! I'm slowly learning which buttons turn her more on. I've known what turns her off, but had a hard time figuring out what turns her on. Last night I was asking her to speak before we started our runs because she loves that stupid trick. And on time she jumped up so excited and almost nose punched me in the face lol But yes, so extremely proud of that little girl.


----------



## Laurelin

Agility field is flooded. I haven't had class in 2 weeks and now don't have class the next 2 weeks.  Bummer.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie really confuses me, sometimes. We've been working on switches for a good... month? with almost no success in her reading them/understanding what I wanted her to do. Today's private lesson, we worked discrimination and then moved on to switches and.... She nailed every last one of them, even really hard ones, like she'd been doing them forever. There's often no in between with her (or period where she's getting closer/better) just totally lack of comprehension to absolute understanding. 

IDEK, but hey. Good lesson was good.


----------



## Laurelin

I totally missed that there was a TDAA trial this weekend!

I am failing at agility lately. Holy crap. Maybe I can enter tomorrow.... but I have nosework.


----------



## LoMD13

Belle and Zoey look FANTASTIC! Great job guys!!

I've been failing at agility the past few months too. We can't do TDAA until Fall because it's outside all summer, and we don't like outside agility. I missed a USDAA, so we're just going with NADAC next month. Class has been going really well though, we even did some distance this past week.


----------



## CptJack

I've got the trial at the end of this month, and then nothing until fall. It's really for the best, since even with it just being in the 80s I can see Kylie flattening out and getting less enthusiastic (we had to break lesson a couple of times while she hid under the a-frame in the shade, and then went off to splash in the pond), but I'm going to miss it. Class with Molly should keep me occupied, but it's just not the same, dang it.

Let me know how NADAC goes!


----------



## Laurelin

Summer and I played today. She was a bit slow but we did get a games Q. I need to go through our emails and figure out where we stand on games Qs because we should be fairly close to her TMAG title. I think we're at least over halfway (need 10 Qs). She went off course on snookers. 

Hank played the last game and it was... um... yeah. I should just stop but it was an easy figure 8 type deal of just jumps and tunnels. Hank ended up going WTF tiny TDAA tunnels?! so he kept skipping them. So we didn't come close. But he did turn on the juice and I had a ton of people come over after the trial telling me how he's going to be great one day. One day being key word I think.

I think he's too big striding for TDAA though he is well within their height. He didn't even measure into their tallest jump height. There was one other bigger fast dog (aussie x corgi) and both of them just demolished things. Those tunnel bags are not meant for fast 20+ lb dogs. But for now I just wanted to get him used to working various places.

I also got him to push a swing in the yard which is a big deal because of his iffiness with movement.


----------



## Laurelin

Lol this judge! 

https://www.facebook.com/135722146470311/videos/977349612307556/


----------



## MrsBoats

I'm so thrilled with O this weekend!! He earned his AKC Novice Standard and JWW titles this weekend!! So O stands for Open Agility now!! LOL 

Here was his JWW title run:






The night before the trial, they had run thrus there and I had both boys with me....and I acutally let Lars play. Keep in mind Lars hasn't done anything serious in agility in well over a year. (We've farted around in the backyard with some weave poles and jumps when I was training O.) But look at what my "bad dog" busts out - 






He actually gave me a real start line!!! AND HE NAILS THE ENTIRE COURSE!!! I think Mr. UD needs to come back to agility on a part time basis!


----------



## CptJack

Congrats Mrs. Boats! They look great and it sounds like an awesome time was had by all!

We're having a tunneler's course at agility practice this week/tomorrow! I'm excited about that - I've never gotten to do one of those, and I think it sounds fun. If I like it enough, I might actually day of entry it at the trial (if Kylie still has brain left, since they're the last runs both days). I'm also taking Bug with us so she can play. I don't expect anything there, but I think she'll have fun with it.


----------



## LoMD13

I just adore watching Lars play agility, he has such a presence!!


----------



## CptJack

I am giving serious consideration to making Molly's beginner class the last group agility class I take with this set of dogs. It looks like I'm going to be able to get at least weekly private lessons, and all the practices our club have are lots of dogs so there's and plenty of opportunity to work in the presence of other dogs. It's a little more expensive to do it privately (but honestly not by very much - 4 more dollars a week - 30 minutes versus 60, but I'm not sharing that time with anyone else), and I get so much more out of it. The equipment is better, the quality of individualized instruction is obviously better, and the environment's about 900% more pleasant than at the facility where classes are held. 

I don't know why this makes me feel weird, and if I got another dog I'd go back for foundations and beginner. I just feel like once we've done the obstacle introduction and start of things I get further, faster, by not dealing with the class. Beyond that point it's so much less general and so much more of it's working at home or handling that needs to change for the individual dog anyway. So, that's a thing. Not convinced, but kind of rattling around my head right now.

Does anyone else have thoughts?


----------



## LoMD13

I think it really depends. I personally really like the group classes because one of the hardest things for Lola is working with distractions. We can ace stuff at home, or in privates, but 9 times out of 10 that won't transfer over to a class or trial environment. There we can borrow a few classmates and sit them around the ring and practice not visiting the ring-crew. We can have them cheer and holler and make the noises that they hear at a trial.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie is kind of irrelevant on the distractions front. I don't know how it happened but that dog doesn't acknowledge ANYTHING when she's doing agility. People in the ring, cops flinging themselves over walls and dragging dummies right outside it, soccer games, whatever. Dog's agility-ing, forget it, she's busy. She'll wander away, but she only does that when she's DONE, rather than because she got distracted. I seriously have no idea when or how she turned into that dog, but she totally did and I adore her for it.

Molly's a whole different ball game. 

Part of my conflict here is I think I'd get more distractions of a certain type in the private lessons. By which I mean they are outside, and they are held in a field that's got livestock fields on 3 sides of it. There are, however, a real lack of dogs. Group classes beyond beginner usually only have 3-4 dogs, so it's not hugely helpful on that front, but 3 is more than 0. I guess I'll probably see how things run in the beginner class and then decide. It's possible I'll be able to do three months worth of private lessons and then slide her into the intermediate/advanced group class when it rolls around again. That won't be right after beginner wraps, anyway, (should be about October) but we're not going to have access to the club-wide run throughs until probably September/October, either, since those only happen around our club hosting a trial.

Maybe that will give her a little bit of learning time without the distractions and then we can add them back in. I really don't know. Fortunately, she's just turning 1. We've got time to wrestle through.


----------



## kadylady

Awesome MrsBoats and O!! That was a beautiful JWW run! Congrats on the titles! And Lars looks great! 

We had a super super weave session last night! We've moved into the front yard stage for what I am calling our "weave reboot" sessions. Reference point: my front yard is 2 houses off a busy main street and usually gets a bit of car and walker/biker traffic down our street. Last night was pretty quiet. But we never work in the front yard. So I was thrilled with her focus and excitement. I tried to incorporate some of her favorite tricks into her jackpots to keep her "up" and it seemed to work really well. Also been using our new little jackpot bag, trying to add value to that. Her jackpot treats last night were tripe and lamb liver! I'm super happy with this. We are going to be at the lake all of memorial day weekend and our weaves are most definitely coming with us. Hoping to figure out a setup so that I can incorporate the dock as part of the reward, retrieving off the dock is probably her most favorite activity ever. 

Here's our video from last night if you want to take a look. It's long.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack - I've been thinking along the same lines with Skye. Do I go through the entire session of group classes or do I go with more privates? It's a little different for me because both would be held in the same place, same equipment, Skye pretty much grew up in that building, has been accompanying me to classes there while I assist, distractions just aren't that same there for my dogs. Also, I've been assistant instructor for the current group going through the classes since they started Intro in the fall and I've been doing all that stuff with Skye, just minus the obstacles. So when they started wrapping jumps, so did we, just no jump bar. When they started front and rear crosses, so did we, just on the flat or with a stanchion. They do pushes/pulls to a tunnel, so do we. In all likely hood I will probably go through all the classes because it will be on a more regular schedule than privates and it will be good for her. It may depend on who is teaching them though. At our club there are 3-4 different instructors who typically teach the intro and then the following 3 handling classes. I'm good with most of them. And who knows what will pop up between now and then. Maybe we will breeze through them and be needing something different? Maybe we will find some new weaknesses and need something different? Only time will tell. I will definitely do at a minimum the first 2. Either way, I'm so excited to start with her! 8 months old at the end of the month!


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, I think I'm just going to see how this next class goes and figure it out from there. She's turning one on Friday and has had a good 6 months of foundations work and handling stuff, but I don't really know how things are going to go as we go along. Part of the fun of the journey.

(Kylie, meanwhile, continues her trend of going from 'I have no idea what you want' to 'Yeah, I got this forever and all the ways'. All that struggle and weaves falling apart and this week she nailed 12. Wrong side. With an angled entry coming out of a tunnel. ...I just don't know what to do with this dog, sometimes)


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> Yeah, I think I'm just going to see how this next class goes and figure it out from there. She's turning one on Friday and has had a good 6 months of foundations work and handling stuff, but I don't really know how things are going to go as we go along. Part of the fun of the journey.
> 
> (Kylie, meanwhile, continues her trend of going from 'I have no idea what you want' to 'Yeah, I got this forever and all the ways'. All that struggle and weaves falling apart and this week she nailed 12. Wrong side. With an angled entry coming out of a tunnel. ...I just don't know what to do with this dog, sometimes)


Unrelated but... holy smokes. Molly is A YEAR OLD?!?!


----------



## CptJack

ireth0 said:


> Unrelated but... holy smokes. Molly is A YEAR OLD?!?!


TOMORROW! Bizarre, innit? It's gone by really, really, fast. Too fast.


----------



## Laurelin

Well I just sprung for a gold Fenzi class. Foundation seesaw. O_O

I feel overwhelmed already haha. I figured we needed all the teeter help we can get.


----------



## Laurelin

WOW! That class filled up crazy fast! it's already full! Glad I went for it and didn't think on it a few more minutes.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank and I just had one of our best agility sessions ever! And it had no equipment. 

We are flooded still so doing indoor stuff. We were playing with him jumping moving boxes and using my chair as a 'table'. He's figured out auto-downing and also not sliding off the back end. It was awesome! Now to transfer it to a real table. God he's going to be amazing if we ever figure out the teeter thing! I am crossing my fingers this class is just what we need.

Also I taught Hank how to speak today. Still not sure if that is a good or bad idea. I think Hank may officially know the most tricks in the house now. I want more of this dog! Seriously this dog is the perfect working partner, he's amazing.


----------



## Laurelin

Please excuse my excessive use of the word 'awesome'


----------



## pawsaddict

WE DID IT!!!! Nova is weaving 6 poles with around the clock entries!!! I. Am. So. Happy. Now on to 12 poles...


----------



## Laurelin

What method did you end up settling on?


----------



## pawsaddict

I settled on this modified 2x2 version...mostly because there was a free pdf for me to follow  but also because I didn't want to confuse Nova too much.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...kICgBw&usg=AFQjCNEFq0fph50ptVt0yzuk76_pV7SH4w

I went all the way back to just two poles and subbed out the ball for treats. She just seemed way too amped up with the ball to even think about anything else. Treats brought her down a notch but still kept her wanting to try to figure it out. I do want to bring the ball back into the picture soon to build speed, though.

She picked it up so fast this time around. Every couple of (very short) sessions, we were able to progress forward. Way less frustrating...for both of us.


----------



## elrohwen

We finally got the agility area re-configured! It was originally about 60ft x 15ft because I was focused on jumping grids and wanted something long and narrow. But it wasn't enough square footage to do anything else, so yesterday we set it up to 40ft x 34ft. So much better! 

The only problem is that it's not ridiculously hot and humid, so I can't use it. I woke up early this morning though and we went down there to play around with some of the Fenzi agility handling class stuff. I'm so excited to actually work on stuff! We are up to 270s and 180s. He wants to come back in between the jumps unless I'm right up here, but we're getting it. We worked on it in the basement a bit, but the jumps had to be touching each other so that was easy. I have the lectures for AG120 as well but I didn't follow along, so we'll have to start that once we finish the AG110 material.


----------



## lauren17

Just had a great agility class last night! I'm not sure if Roo is just starting to mature a little or if maybe herding helped him learn to focus better? He had a herding session Thursday where he was just great then all weekend he was focusing better and had really good recalls in high distraction off leash areas even. Then at class last night we didn't have any of his running off problems and ran full courses for the first time! Ran him 5 times full speed with no issues. Hopefully he continues to improve this way, I'm very happy with him!


----------



## kadylady

Video of class last week. Some fun challenges, some tougher weave challenges. At 3:45 my instructor runs the course with her. She hasn't run with anybody else in awhile so I was curious to see how she would run for her, she did really great...just the one spot where she decided she clearly needed to go do the weaves again!!! (probably due to our excessive weave jackpots lately) 






We also did weaves at the lake this weekend, will post that video later once I edit out all my husbands random videotaping and talking....*facepalm*


----------



## pawsaddict

Well, tried to introduce two sets of six poles (in my attempt to get to 12 poles). Nova's brain exploded. So I'm going to just keep adding two poles at time until we make it to 12. 

She has also decided that her kibble is a really lame reward for all her hard weave work. Problem is that her tummy is just so sensitive. I've tried mixing in a bit of plain freeze dried duck treats and she just gets diarrhea. Soooo she is stuck with her kibble. I just need to figure out how to spice it up without making her tummy angry :\


----------



## CptJack

Can I make a suggestion re: weaves? (Take it or leave it, of course, you know your dog best)

Don't work them alone and try to go from 6 to 12. Get those six crazy solid as part of sequences, with obstacles before and after in different configurations. You will have a much easier time adding a second set, as well as dealing with collection for entires and exits and seeing them as a part of agility rather than a stand alone 'trick', if you do tha NOW. I mean you can get to 12 now if you want, but it will be about a billion times faster if you get her seeing it as part of a course and expecting there to be more after she's done them than you'll have doing it right away.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Can I make a suggestion re: weaves? (Take it or leave it, of course, you know your dog best)
> 
> Don't work them alone and try to go from 6 to 12. Get those six crazy solid as part of sequences, with obstacles before and after in different configurations. You will have a much easier time adding a second set, as well as dealing with collection for entires and exits and seeing them as a part of agility rather than a stand alone 'trick', if you do tha NOW. I mean you can get to 12 now if you want, but it will be about a billion times faster if you get her seeing it as part of a course and expecting there to be more after she's done them than you'll have doing it right away.


That's a really great suggestion, and makes a lot of sense. Thank you! I'm definitely going to do that instead. We start another agility class this weekend, so that will be great for really working on those six as part of a whole course/sequence.

I was just so worried that if I stayed at six poles for too long, she would...get stuck there. If that makes sense?


----------



## CptJack

It makes sense. There are lots of people who advocate for moving from 6 to 12 as soon as possible. I DO think not sticking with just 6 for too long can be important, and I'm not claiming to be the most experienced, ever, but.

If you can work that 6 into sequences, and eventually do things like jump-weave-tunnel-jump-weave, and then weave-jump-weave, or whatever then you can get the dog used to seeing the weaves more than once WHILE you work on collections and entries and exits and angles and you moving around different ways and sending or whatever. And once the dog is used to seeing then more than once/has a concept for that, you can weed out middle obstacles (like try weaves-jump-weaves) until you've just got her doing the two sets of weaves and then smack them together, if just doing them with other stuff doesn't make the idea of two sets in a relative row less mindblowing.

That said, if you asked me how I got Kylie from 6 to 12, I wouldn't really have a good answer and wouldn't be convinced the real answer wasn't 'Kylie took pity on me'.


----------



## pawsaddict

Thank you for your perspective. I really appreciate it! I'm going to take your recommendation and spend some time with the six poles, getting her used to them in different sequences before trying to get her to do 12 poles. I think she'll have an easier time doing it that way AND really solidify weaving the 6 poles. Quality before quantity.


----------



## Sibe

After a couple months off, we've moved to Colorado (from San Diego, where we spent the last 6 years) and Denali is back training with the lady who first taught us in the fall of '10 when I was here while husband was deployed. Denali saw hoops and a barrel (NADAC) for the first time today- she may have seen a hoop once years ago when we were first starting here but not since. She had SO MUCH FUN today and was really excited to be back.


----------



## pawsaddict

Awesome video, Sibe. You guys look GREAT!


----------



## CptJack

She looks amazing and certainly doesn't seem to have had any trouble figuring out those hoops and barrels. (I like barrels!)


----------



## Sibe

We did sending around objects like trash cans, vacuums, trees, etc as a foundation send skill so she got the "out" for the barrel really well. I did run her through a hoop a few times before our first run (video is of 2nd course). She doesn't quite fully grasp it, but she's probably 90% there and won't take much to get her to 100.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, the getting out for trashcans/buckets/trees/etc. was a big part of our foundations - probably why I have so much fun with them. Kylie took a while to totally grock onto the hoops. I mean she's go through them but it took her longer to put those together in her head as AN OBSTACLE TO NOTICE AND DO than probably anything else on the course. It was really strange and frustrating, but now that she's there they're kind of useful for handling stuff. Also really cheap and low impact when it comes to working on things.


----------



## Sibe

That's where she's not quite got it yet, I don't think she's really seeing it as an obstacle. She's doing it, I was "babysitting" her quite a bit today guiding her through and she is catching on but we didn't have a lightbulb moment with hoops yet.

Am I crazy for thinking Bobb could learn to do hoops and tunnels? 2 legged dogs can do agility too, right? Right?! (We adopt him in 3 weeks!)


----------



## CptJack

I don't know. Hoops and tunnels? Why the heck not? 

...Am I crazy for thinking I should enter Bug into a tunneler's course or two at the next local trial (comes around in October)? I mean she's old and deaf and has all kinds of issues, but... it's just tunnels....


----------



## Sibe

It's just tunnels! She could totally do it. No different than running around the yard!


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> It's just tunnels! She could totally do it. No different than running around the yard!


I did foundations with her, and she's pretty familiar with going where she's sent and tunnels in general. I think I'm going to register her and do it. Just cause.


----------



## Sibe

Videos please thanks.

I think you'd both have a blast.


----------



## elrohwen

Ok, so how do you guys train rear crosses?

Back when I was in class we only worked on them once I think. Now I'm working on handling stuff on my own at home and am having a hard time with this. I'm mostly using the FDSA agility handling class notes. 

Basically, my issue is that Watson is not reading that I'm going behind him and he always turns the way he would on a regular forward send/wrap. 

Here's what we've tried:
1. On the flat. Basically luring him in front of me and over to my other hand, the way we did back in class and that I found on some agility blog online. No problem here and I'm not really sure what to do on the flat beyond this.
2. Through standards with a pole on the ground. I'm basically doing the flat work exercise over a pole with a lot of luring and he will turn towards the correct side. As soon as I don't have my hand in front of his face, he goes back to turning the wrong way. This is at barely walking speed and I am right with him.
3. Over a jump. The agility lectures recommend going from flat to a low jump and doing the send from about 5-10ft away, so I tried this too. I thought maybe with more speed and obvious movement on my part he would get it, but nope, he still turns the wrong way, then spins around on the landing to look for me.

So how do you guys train it? He's obviously just focused on the jump (even if it's a pole on the ground) and is doing what he thinks he should be doing and he has no idea that I've done anything different. Should I add in a verbal cue instead of hoping that he picks up on my motion?


----------



## CptJack

I didn't use this method, but I've seen other people use it with a lot of success.

It starts stationary (for the dog) and builds but the first step is teaching the dog to turn it's head/orient toward you when you're moving. After you've got that, add motion and commands/jumps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLaLAFc8BCs


----------



## elrohwen

Yeah, we've done that flatwork exercise too. Forgot to mention that one. Still doesn't help once he is focused on the obstacle/pole unless my hand is in front of his face. He is just so patterned to go the one direction, which I think is funny because we've really done very very little agility, and pretty much none in a year. But he's just that kind of dog who decides what he thinks he should be doing and then does it over and over again. Haha.

I like how she does the wrap and then the rear cross. I'll have to try that.


----------



## CptJack

Trying it certainly won't hurt. 

It honestly may just be a green dog thing, to be honest with you. I know that's not what you want to hear, because it doesn't have a concrete solution, but there are places and things with agility where the dog just has to figure out through repeatedly doing. When they're doing short exercises, with few obstacles, they get used to the idea that 'did the obstacle, I'm done' and whirling around to look for you/the treat is normal. The importance of where you are on the course or fact that they're going somewhere NEXT and you have to tell them where that is doesn't really seem to sink in for the vast majority of dogs I personally see until you're doing longer sequences and flub it up for a while. They just think they're done way before they are, or haven't grocked onto what that body language you're using MEANS until they've experienced in context enough time for it to mean something. Like... no matter how much flat/single obstacle work you do. 

That said, I taught rear-crosses by sending Kylie 10 feet ahead of me to an obstacle (target would work), crossing behind her and then calling 'HERE" to get her to re-orient my direction. I'm... probably terribly positioned to help here, but maybe someone like trainingjunkie or just with more experience will come along. If not, maybe email her?


----------



## elrohwen

Yeah, I'm sure he will figure it out, I just don't want him to pattern this jump/spin/look for mom thing that he's doing. He does figure out which way I'm going, but he ends up putting in a ridiculous spin first. I thought maybe if I let him do that a couple times he would figure out that just turning was easier, but not so much. 

I was hoping that there would be so other wonderful way to train it that was not explained in the resources I have, but it looks like that's not the case.

And I realize he just doesn't understand body language in general right now. We worked on some 270s and 180s and as soon as I move the jumps apart he comes right in between them. I think my handling is right, I'm following very detailed lecture materials, but he just hasn't figured it out yet so we're keeping the jumps very close together for now.

I don't want to sign up for another in person class until we get the hang of basic handling. I know he's not going to be able to learn this stuff in a class full of other dogs but if we get this down he will have a better shot at classes.


----------



## kadylady

I started both my girls with the same flat work portion of that video. I didn't do the wrap then the rear like she did but I kind of like that. May have to try it. I just went to the jump (stanchions only for Skye) and a regular wrap, but one thing that may help is putting him at an angle to the jump so it's actually harder for him to turn the incorrect way. You can also throw and toy or cookie towards the way you want him to turn to discourage turning the wrong way. I will also say their name to help them make the turn towards my voice. That said....some dogs get it better and faster than others. Zoey rear crosses fabulously, so it was pretty easy for me. My friend's aussie who is at the same level/experience as Zoey and was taught with the same methods, still struggles with and turns the wrong way on rear crosses.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> I started both my girls with the same flat work portion of that video. I didn't do the wrap then the rear like she did but I kind of like that. May have to try it. I just went to the jump (stanchions only for Skye) and a regular wrap, but one thing that may help is putting him at an angle to the jump so it's actually harder for him to turn the incorrect way. You can also throw and toy or cookie towards the way you want him to turn to discourage turning the wrong way. I will also say their name to help them make the turn towards my voice. That said....some dogs get it better and faster than others. Zoey rear crosses fabulously, so it was pretty easy for me. My friend's aussie who is at the same level/experience as Zoey and was taught with the same methods, still struggles with and turns the wrong way on rear crosses.


Those are some good ideas. I did start tossing food towards the end and that seemed to help, but then we quit for the night. And starting him at an angle is a really great idea. We'll give those a shot!


----------



## Laurelin

Hank KILLED agility class today. Omg. I am so excited about how all the little pieces are starting to come together. Long ways to go to first real trial still but dang. 

He even did 6 weaves closed in a sequence! First time ever outside our yard. And on both hands. 

I feel like he's some sort of weird agility prodigy. He's just so good at it.


----------



## CptJack

We misses a q by four hundredths of a.second. I'm dead.


----------



## pawsaddict

Yay, Hank! That's so awesome!

Sorry, CptJack, about missing the q  You'll kill it next time!

Nova didn't bark at me once during weave practice this morning! And she did a jump right into the weaves perfectly mulitple times on my left and right...that was not happening at all yesterday, but it seemed to just click for her today. We start a new class in a few hours. I hope it goes as well as yours did today, Laurelin.


----------



## CptJack

I'm honestly not upset. I just laughed and laughed. I mean .04 of a second? Welcome to agility. (Her YPS that time was ALSO like 3.5, so that's kind of not at all bad. It was just a crazy fast course!)

**ETA:** And now that I'm home, I'm going to sleep and sleep - and do this again tomorrow. But seriously, two of her runs the only faults were time ones. Of course, one of those runs was WAY over time and the one that wasn't was a laughable disaster, but overall? Decent day, I think. Especially given how hot and sluggish she is/was. It was NINETY out there.


----------



## CptJack

Also I am absolutely not showing up in time for the judge's briefing tomorrow. Touch 'n Go goes first, we have none of that and dragging my dog out there a good 2.5 hours before she runs in this heat really does not help. I'm going to aim for getting there more like 9 than 7:30 and if I have to keep dunking her in the pool to keep her from melting into a puddle of apathy, so help me goodness I will (she was soaked for the last run, which was the best by far.)


----------



## CptJack

So overall, that trial was great. Kylie did better day 2, overall, than day 1. Showing up later helped, more shade and a breeze and it not being 90 helped. We still managed to have one run that was a disaster to the degree that we actually Eliminated ourselves, which was a first but meh. Otherwise, we um. Had a lot of clean runs that were over course time and NONE of them were over by more than a half second - 2 were less than .05. Longer leadouts, maybe. I don't know. She was, however, incredibly popular with everybody including the judge, let people pet her and overall had a grand old time. 

Spending the summer mostly working weave stuff with Kylie I think, but otherwise letting her chill out until fall while I get into this game and Molly up to speed.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank's training is going really really well. It's wonderful watching everything start to slide into place. Little bits and pieces here and there are just fitting together for us both and it's spectacular. It's so tempting to rush him because he's so easy but I'm glad we're not. My trainer is really pushing me on my end of things to tighten up and be very conscientious about my handling. Agility with Hank is very different. It's fun getting to focus on the more minor and precise things. I really got him to tighten up his turns on some of his box work this weekend. Just a totally different focus to his training than with Summer. It's fun and different... keeping it interesting. 

My trainer also decided to test him out on a sequence she thought was above our level possibly that included a tunnel to weaves where the weaves were a discrimination. There was a jump set right in front of the tunnel and I needed to call him in to weave. He nailed it first try! And his weaves are getting fast. He occasionally misses the entrance on the right hand but it's getting more and more accurate. 

He also nailed his backsides and Jaako turns. 

I don't want to put a lot of pressure on him but I'm getting darn excited! Im not sure when trials will happen. I want him solid before competing. Possibly next winter.

As far as what we're doing right now:

- He starts up his Fenzi class today so hopefully in the next 6 weeks we can tackle the teeter issues. This will be the main goal for the net month and a half (hey I paid for a working spot!)

- Continue nosework classes. NW is kind of the back burner

- Start taking his weaves places. Start adding in the next 6 poles. Also keep proofing entrances. Start working his weaves with me doing various motion and crosses.

- Continue agility classes. Sounds like we will be moving to a more advanced class after next week.

- Box work seminar maybe?

We have not really touched contacts much beyond the end behavior. Been working handling and weaves mostly lately.

He's starting to nail his table too.


----------



## kadylady

Sounds like a really great trial CptJack!! Congrats! The speed will come with confidence. 

Sounds like Hank is doing awesome too!!

We did some light practice both Saturday and Sunday at our club building. Wanted to work some contact practice, some contact/tunnel discrimination and 12 weaves before our trial this weekend. We are doing CPE outside this weekend, my club is hosting. In preparation for that I'm doing a lesson with my instructor outside at a park tomorrow night. Taking weaves, jumps and a tunnel. Very much looking forward to it. Looking forward to the trial this weekend, she tends to run a little faster but a little more distracted as well outside.


----------



## CptJack

I HOPE the speed comes with confidence. Honestly... I'm not entirely sure. Probably we'll be okay in regular classes? But something's going to have to give on some of the games. On one hand she's REALLY close to fast enough, and I mean really close, but. That's novice times? And she was moving faster all weekend than the previous trial, by quite a bit. So I think at the very least we're going to have to get more confidence at more distance, because I'm not going to be able to run with her and have us make time. Not that I'm slow, but NADAC games times are FAST. 

But that's a while off.


----------



## Laurelin

Can you try something other than NADAC? I know you like it but the course times are really fast compared to other venues especially for the little dogs. Imo most orgs fail to give enough of a time allowance for the smallest jump heights. I see big dogs walk/trot a course and Q but Summer would never do that because her legs are so short. Even in USDAA if we messed up once or twice we'd be DQ'd for time. I did NADAC once with her but she was over time most the runs just barely. She wasn't really capable of doing too much more speed than that. She really needs to stick to slower orgs. CPE and UKC and TDAA are probably the slowest. (TDAA is probably the slowest but it's not all breed/dog inclusive) AKC is slower than USDAA by a bit. NADAC is the fastest I believe.


----------



## CptJack

I would LOVE to do other venues, but I really don't have access to them. I have some access to AKC which I'd suck up my ethical objections to if they were more readily available and I had access to TRAINING for it (I have really limited access to things like teeters and tires and chutes, which nadac does not have), but I don't and while the tire/chute are overcomeable I think she's so used to the dog walk she'd kill herself on the teeter. There is literally NOTHING else within several hundred miles of me and I am pretty limited by geography until my kids aren't kids (ie: I don't need to be home at night). 

I'm going to see what I can do about tracking down the equipment NADAC doesn't have, and keep looking around, but for the most part I'm kind of thinking I'm might just stick in regular agility with Kylie for a while. You're right, the time allowances for the low jump heights just aren't there and it makes me NUTS. If she's running flat out with zero errors at ALL (like no hesitations, refusals, wide-turns, near misses, NOTHING on those two that were so close, and it was TUNNLERS so it's not like she was weaving slow or hesitating too long on contacts, you know?) I... really kind of resent the heck out of her being overtime. I'm trying to pretend I don't because it's not useful but ... littlebit yeah.

I will say though, that I think if I can get more distance we'll get more speed, and probably Q for the Novice stuff, but as those times tighten at higher levels I just... don't see HOW she can get fast enough. Like... at all.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah it kind of sucks in agility with really little dogs. USDAA definitely is not the most little dog friendly either in some respects. 

I have a few friends that do NADAC and TDAA. Even the little dogs need to run over 4+ yps to Q in the upper levels. A couple are looking at getting bigger, faster dogs for NADAC because really they need 5+ yps to play at the high levels. And not talking at nationals or anything but just to Q and not have to worry about time faults if you bobble anything at all. It was funny talking to one at the last trial about a breeder that we had both been looking at. She asked if I knew how good the dogs were at agility and I said 'Oh yeah they do well and get MACHs and such' and she said 'Ok but what's their yards per second?' Because you can be slow(ish) and MACH in AKC but be too slow for NADAC...

AKC seems the most middle of the road to me. I haven't trialled there but just from watching and comparing to USDAA. USDAA is faster than AKC and the courses seem more technical ('international'). And AKC's championship title (MACH) is attainable for moderately paced dogs. It has both an accuracy and speed component. I see a lot more variety in breed at AKC trials whereas USDAA is 80-90% fast border collies. 

TDAA is easy comparatively and a great started org (or for elderly toy dogs) if you have it there. I would not recommend it for a smaller fast dog because I think you could slow them down with teacup courses. I won't be doing it with Hank for that reason. He's only 15" but very fast and has a big stride for his height. 

I have never been to a UKC trial but I hear it's good for the slower dogs. More focus on accuracy vs speed. I'd love CPE if it was around here too. It's supposed to be shorter courses, easier, and slower. Good starter venue.

I want to focus on USDAA with Hank but it's easier when time faults aren't a worry. He's fast enough for it to not be an issue. We'll be DQ'd for off courses probably.

Bummer about the tires and chutes and tunnels. Have you poked around the other organizations' event calendars to see if trials are in your state? You may be able to find something/somewhere to train if you can go to trials. But yeah I understand about limited options. It's AKC or bust around here for the most part.


----------



## CptJack

NADAC is FAST. NADAC is so crazy fast. I don't worry about it at all with Molly - she'll be fine if I can keep her on course - , and in truth the times for regular agility are pretty doable. Kylie was coming in under time (but with a single fault every run because of course) by 15-20 seconds at all of like 1.8 and 2 YPS on regular courses, but she was breaking 3 ( even 3.5YPS on one) on the tunnelers courses and STILL coming in over time, Like I know that is not crazy fast, but she's 11" tall! Her stride is just not that great. Granted the over time on those could be measured by hundredths of a second but. Uh. Novice, here, folks. And in the games glasses it's the same freaking course, they just change the number of weaves in weavers (6 instead of 12 per set) and the time (ie: faster times for higher levels). 

I don't know, I guess I'll see where things hit. Poke around, keep playing because it's my primary motivation anyway (as in fun) and see what happens with it.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah just checking but USDAA's MASTERS level yps for small dogs is 2.75. Of course that's for standard. It's NADAC's tunneler's that is crazy fast.

It also annoyed me that NADAC only gives extra course time for veterans on jumping classes. We didn't get any extra time on tunnelers. Makes no sense to me.


----------



## Laurelin

I think USDAA's fastest is master's jumpers. For 12" dogs (the smallest height) it's 3.5 yps.

And don't get me started on 12" being USDAA's shortest jump height!


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, I went and looked it up. 

They give small dogs 25% more time than large dogs, but the max yps for large dogs in tunnelers are 4, 4.5, and 5 YPS for Novice/Open/Elite. 

Their regular YPS times are better - 2.75, 3.25, and 3.75. THOSE I consider doable (at least novice and open, maybe even elite someday), but as much fun and tunnelers is (and it is WICKED fun) um. They need a better time differential for dogs who are short as snot. And also the non jumping classes for vets because hi, they still MOVE SLOWER.


----------



## kadylady

I have only done AKC and CPE, which are both very prominent in my area. I know USDAA and UKI are starting to get a little bigger. NADAC there are a couple... and UKC agility is dying in this area I hear. My club hosts AKC, CPE and UKC trials.

CPE is amazing in terms of being beginner/older/smaller/slower dog friendly. There are like 4 different height categories plus 4"-26" jump heights, the times are much more generous...Zoey stopped and rolled in the middle of one our our classes and we stilled Q'd! I also love that the games courses are shorter, some are only 10 obstacles. Lots of opportunity for practice with the point accumulation games. And in general most of the courses are much "flowier" than AKC courses. It's been so great for me and Zoey. We would be dying if all we were doing was AKC right now. I enjoy AKC. But now that we are in Excellent Standard it's a little bit above our heads right now and it's so nice to be able to work through CPE and keep building confidence for both of us until we are ready for those harder, faster AKC courses.


----------



## Laurelin

AKC Masters JWW is 3.05 yps for shortest jump height (8") (3.75 yps for big dogs)

USDAA Masters Jumpers is 3.50 yps for 12" dogs. (4.25 for big dogs)

CPE doesn't list yps for small dogs (neither does NADAC). Their highest level jumpers yps is 3.5-4 yps for the big dogs with 5-10 seconds added on for small dogs Kind of confusing

NADAC elite tunnelers is 5 yps for big dogs with time added for smaller dogs. but doesn't give a small dog yps. Jumpers is 4.75.


----------



## CptJack

http://www.nadac.com/Rules_for_NADAC_trials.htm

Nope, no listing for small dogs, just mention of max yps for large ones. Their jumpers elite is 3.75-4.75, though.
In the classes of Regular, Jumpers, Touch N Go, Tunnelers, and Weavers the following calculations shall determine medium dog, small dog, and veteran/junior handlers SCTs:

Medium dogs and Large Vet/JH dogs shall receive 10% more time than the large dogs for each level.
Small dogs and Medium Vet/JH dogs shall receive 20% more time than the large dogs for each level.
Small Skilled Category dogs shall receive 25% more time than the large dogs for each level.
Small Vet/JH dogs shall receive 30% more time than the large dogs for each level.

What that actually means in practice clearly is going to vary WILDLY. :/


----------



## Laurelin

I'm surprised that CPE masters jumpers is actually faster than AKC. I'm thinking it may be the difference because AKC jumpers includes weaves? Idk, I've always heard CPE and UKC are the best orgs for slower dogs.


----------



## CptJack

I think it probably is the weaves in AKC. Even fast dogs slow down some with weaving, and I know the weavers classes in NADAC has the slowest of the 'games' times (Regular is still slightly slower, but otherwise, it's relatively reasonable).


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> I'm surprised that CPE masters jumpers is actually faster than AKC. I'm thinking it may be the difference because AKC jumpers includes weaves? Idk, I've always heard CPE and UKC are the best orgs for slower dogs.


Probably yes because of the weaves.

Another thing I like about CPE, you don't have to do the weaves every fricken run!


----------



## Laurelin

My heart is definitely with USDAA. I do need to try AKC but USDAA just is fun. I like the games classes. Its pretty competitive and fast but also more laid back than AKC it seems? I don't like the way AKC does trials to where the novice folk have to wait forever. And weaves are in everything. USDAA also gives you more runs per day with more variety. I like that USDAA forces me to really work and run hard. TDAA is ok but not nearly as fun. I only do it because Summer does best there with her age.

I will try NADAC again with Hank. It'll probably be better with him.


----------



## CptJack

Touch 'n go in NADAC has no weaves and is fun, but it's also kind of hard. 

Honestly, everthing in NADAC except chances and regular is the self-same course for novice through elite, with the only change being the length of weaves in weavers, and the length of time you have to complete the course. So your T'n'G course is as technically hard at novice as it will ever be. Everything else is down to GET. FASTER. Also I will admit freely they expect you to title and be good at regular before going back for games/classes titles. They're big on speed and that's going to ROCK with Molly but I don't really expect Kylie to ever get out of novice, and certainly not out of Open. Fortunately, I'm still not all that serious about this, and will live even if I never trial another venue.

And honestly I really, really love all the people - including the judges. 

BUT I WILL GRUMP.


----------



## kadylady

About UKC... they are very much accuracy over time/speed. And they have a LOT of weird obstacles that you won't find used anywhere else. And what is interesting to me is that (in my area at least) UKC agility is dying, not a lot of trials and not a lot of entries at the few trials there are. But UKC everything else....if picking up speed. Nose work, rally, obedience, confirmation, weight pull, lure coursing....those are growing I've heard.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah apparently all the weird stuff doesn't show until after the beginner/novice level in UKC. So a lot of people here use that as practice runs. Same with NADAC. Most people here view those trials as practice for the other venues. 

I really like having technical challenges in usdaa. There's ample opportunities for some challenging handling.

NADAC and UKC are dying here too. My club used to be NADAC people but they got fed up with rule changes that were happening very often. Eventually landed on Usdaa. I hope it picks up steam.


----------



## CptJack

If I'm honest, my default preference is for NADAC style courses. I don't LIKE the tight/close/'cluttered' courses in most of the other venues. We did a few practice runs here and there, but to me those just aren't fun. I like discriminations and technical handling but I mostly like distance handling and speed and precision FROM distance. Being right on top of my dog in the ring doesn't do a thing for me (It's impressive just not tons of fun for me and not what I find training for fun, either) and I really, really wouldn't care if I never saw a teeter or tire, though I like the table and chute. So I guess while I might try a few other things with Kylie given the time issues, course style wise I'd rather be running NADAC than AKC or USDAA type courses. I just want it all okay?


----------



## Laurelin

I see a lot of distance work in usdaa and akc. Not the same as NADAC where the handler sometimes stands in a box and handles but a lot of the really fast dogs aren't having a handler run right there. I see more serpentines and things like that in usdaa at least here. Usdaa does have a distance handling game in gamblers where you handle the end of the course behind a line. Even in some of the starters gamblers its been a significant distance challenge. 

Most starters courses are pretty flowy I find. 

I think akc has a game similar to gamblers. Time to beat? Or fast? I can't remember.


----------



## CptJack

Hm. I might have to do more poking around. NADAC the bonus boxes aren't standard (though there is the 'behind the line' for Chances classes too, at all levels), but it IS pretty standard to not run the course with your dog, but to be working from a stationary and strategic position and just move closer if the dog needs support. Not so much novice, but even open you see a lot of that and honestly the little bit I have done is really, really fun for me. That said, I don't need to be standing in a box or in one spot while I handle her. I just don't like some of the super tight, super twisty courses that are more technical than fast and the handler needs to be with the dog.

I dunno. I've been competing a month  I'll figure it out I'm sure.


----------



## LoMD13

Yikes this is pretty discouraging! We are trying out NADAC next month and I was really hoping i'd like it because they have it in an air conditioned building and there's basically a trial every month. I don't think there are many USDAA trials until fall, and TDAA is outside until winter and I also have to travel an hour to get there. 

I'm mostly focused on USDAA though, so I think i'll use these summer NADAC trials as "practice" runs and not care so much about Qing. Taking the pressure off and just playinh will probably be the best thing for both of us.


----------



## CptJack

You will probably be more than fine in regular agility and okay in most other classes. Kylie was seriously blowing away SCTs in her regular classes, and I have to be fair and give it where it's due: These courses were set at the max course time allowable by the organization, which I'm just finding out. They don't *have* to be that fast. 

Either way, you will definitely have fun , and it really IS low pressure and laid back regardless. Well, the people here are and that is the reputation they have, anyway.


----------



## Laurelin

Well I mean any fast dog if you're aiming to win you're going to have to handle at a distance because no human will keep up. 

Usdaa around here is very very fast. Both it and akc are very competitive. Usdaa feels more competitive to me because there's more fast BCs trying to qualify for regionals and nationals whereas akc catches a lot of all breed people wanting to put performance titles on their confo dogs. At least around here. They are the biggest game in town though and a lot of 'serious' people hunt that MACH or are trying to qualify there too. 

So yeah definitely lots of speed and 5-6 yps dogs there too. Lots of handling skill at the upper levels. Watchin some of the masters teams is amazing. 

The real tight technical stuff is mostly overseas. Akc has a class sometimes for an international style course. Even though usdaa sometimes is referred to as 'more international' I'm not sure it is. 

I think it's all about finding your comfort zone. I like the feel of usdaa the best. It's pretty charged but still laid back? Akc feels formal to me but it may be because I don't know as many people there. Usdaa some of the elite handlers seem very... Stressed. Teacup is really really laid back. Lmao. I never feel like its a competition there.


----------



## CptJack

Well, yeah, you're never going to literally go every step your dog does or take the path and have to do some distance, but there is ... a level of frantic motion necessary to get to where you need to be in some of the AKC courses. Actually many of the AKC courses, that I just don't see in NADAC. Because you're not an obstacle behind or handling while you're off to the side getting where you need to be. You're in the middle of the course, driving the dog. YOU don't need to move the same way, at all. The frantic motion and scramble is what a lot of people find exciting and fun and I go 'ergh yuck' at, and is just a trigger for anxiety for me. If I have to scramble on a course, I don't like it. And get panicky and that's the opposite of fun (FOR ME!). I don't want an adrenaline high! Adrenaline is my enemy  (Though in fairness I'd probably get used to it and enjoy it if I DID it and it was more familiar).

Definitely just about what you find fun and want to play with. Goodness knows there's not really a shortage of options, if you're willing to travel and look.


----------



## Laurelin

LoMD13 said:


> Yikes this is pretty discouraging! We are trying out NADAC next month and I was really hoping i'd like it because they have it in an air conditioned building and there's basically a trial every month. I don't think there are many USDAA trials until fall, and TDAA is outside until winter and I also have to travel an hour to get there.
> 
> I'm mostly focused on USDAA though, so I think i'll use these summer NADAC trials as "practice" runs and not care so much about Qing. Taking the pressure off and just playinh will probably be the best thing for both of us.


Summer would have Q'd in jumpers if she hasn't said hi to the bar setter. We were still under course time but got eliminated. 

I thought the trial was very fun and would do NADAC again. It's just fast course times comparatively.


----------



## Laurelin

Looking back up Summer's YPS for the NADAC trial-

Touch N Go was 3.09
Tunnelers- 2.95 (about halfway through she gave me a WTF is this? look. Like 'where are all the fun obstacles?' She hates tunnels)
Jumpers 2.89
Standard- we ran the wrong course

My poor little old slow dog. LOL

It'll be nice not having to worry abut 'did we make time' with Hank. 

My favorite part of agility is the adrenaline. Especially running a fast dog- it's definitely a high!


----------



## CptJack

Kylie's YPS on the first two regular courses we did were 1.8 and 2.0 or something, which is just not impressive - and she still only had course faults (10 and 20 - 20 for crossing the finish line without taking the last obstacle, 10 for wrong course/taking a hoop backward) - and was well under SCT so it's pretty doable. That said, THAT IS NOT SLOW FOR AN OLD DOG AT ALL. Kylie is bigger than she is and THREE, so. You know. GO SUMMER.

Also, Kylie stopped her first Tunnelers run and was so confused. She just did not get it. LOVED IT once she got it but she really was pretty blatantly confused.


----------



## LoMD13

Teacup I actually thought was a little TOO laid back and easy. It was great for confidence boosting though.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah I think 3 yps is decent for an older tiny dog. She never walked the course but that was about as fast as she would go. 

At home field we clocked her at almost 4 yps a few times which was impressive IMO. She never ran at trials like she did at practice or fun runs at our field.


----------



## CptJack

I think I can probably get Kylie eventually doing 4yps, but I suspect that's probably going to be her max. I mean she can run faster than that, but I don't know that she can run agility faster than that which is all that actually counts. I guess we'll see over the next few years.


----------



## Laurelin

LoMD13 said:


> Teacup I actually thought was a little TOO laid back and easy. It was great for confidence boosting though.


I think so too. But great for old dogs that want to play but have trouble with faster courses and higher jumps. 

Though I know some people running fast (NADAC champion fast) dogs in teacup and that looks hard because courses are so tight. 

I don't like that I can't run in teacup either. I want to run too. Not just my dog. 

But I think usdaa and such is too much for summer. She enjoys teacup though and this can still play now and then.


----------



## LoMD13

Lola is completely hit or miss. When we're going well at a trial we're at 3.5 to 4 yps. (Which is nowhere near as fast as she can be in class). When I can't get her motivated, it's more like 1-2.


----------



## Laurelin

I'll be interested in seeing what Hank clocks. Hopefully he doesn't slow down at trials too. I was watching us practice on video and he was averaging about 1 obstacle a second- second and a half.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I know nothing about trialing yet. We have a lot of CPE and AKC where I am. I got my CPE number.. but I was hoping to at least attend a trial before.. ya know.. entering one.  

I've also seen a few UKI trials locally hosted. I'm really curious to find out what else is around here.


----------



## Laurelin

This is a neat watch.


----------



## CptJack

Looks like Kylie and I will be working through the summer. Got an email from instructor lady asking if we wanted to stay on the list for lessons and of course I'm not turning those down. Also got complimented on how nice some of those runs were and how close we were to making time and reassured we'd get more efficient as we got more experienced. It was a thought I actually hadn't considered, but it's true. I think I could have shaved off those bits of time if I'd even just been better in planning the path I took with her. IT's a thing. We'll work on it. We've got at least 5 or 6 years to do so.


----------



## kadylady

The girls and I had a super awesome private lesson last night!!!!! I wanted to do something outside somewhere we've never been since we are trialing outside our next 2 trials, so we packed up and headed out. We went to a school that has a bunch of big unused fields surrounding their baseballs fields. It was a relatively busy evening, 2 or 3 games going on, so we used an empty field at the far end of the place. It was a perfect location. We were near a game but not right on top of it, had all the noise and sights going on but most of the foot/car traffic was on the opposite side of the diamond. We set up a tunnel, 12 weaves, and 5 jumps. 

Zoey was, as predicted, pretty distracted by the new sights, sounds and smells, so it was really a perfect setup for us. My instructor had us working a version of "around the world" with weave entries from the jumps/tunnel. She was about 50% accuracy on our first set of reps. She was clearly distracted and showing some of the stress that shows up in trials, had a couple missed entries and then a couple pops near poles 8-10. Which was great! Because I've never been able to replicate that stress before! So we could actually address it last night and jackpot the ever loving life out of her on successes! Then we took a break and Skye got to play with some stanchions and the tunnel and practicing recalls.

On our second set of reps (same as the first) she was 100% accuracy and our speed came back!!! She did really really great and it was so awesome to be able to finally replicate some of our trial struggles and be able to help her work through them. I feel like we had a really big break through last night. So so proud of her. I have a bunch of video clips but have to edit them together and get them off my ipad.


----------



## Sibe

Pics from class today, husband came with his new toy (Nikon D750).

I'm about to front cross, to pull her to the orange jump


















It's a hoop, and she's looking at it! Getting the idea that it's an obstacle!! 2nd week with hoops.









Fluffy butt









I think I'm about to say "pipe."









Her face. So much happy!


----------



## Sibe

kadylady said:


> The girls and I had a super awesome private lesson last night!!!!!


 Woohooooo!!!!! Sounds like a fantastic lesson!



> stanchions


Oh is THAT how you spell it? I've never seen it written. The more you knooooooow!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

She looks like she is having a blast, Sibe. SO pretty!

I think I'm signing up for my first mock CPE trial for the end of the month. Toys and treats are allowed. Everything is just practice but.. I'm so nervous. Then if this goes well.. first real trial either July or October.


----------



## CptJack

I think once you do one and get a feel for how things run nerves will go away. I mean, I'm the most anxious person on the planet but once I knew what to expect and how to handle things I just don't care. Stick me on the start line and I don't even get a tummy flutter. And that 's after TWO.

And you guys are so ready.


----------



## CptJack

So, I measured Molly. She's officially a hair over 19" tall. That puts her in the 20" division and... I don't really think I'm going to do that to be honest. I *don't* like dogs jumping more than their heights, it just makes me uncomfortable with my own dogs. Kylie's 11.2" tall or something and should be jumping 12", but I run her skilled at 8. Unless Molly proves to be much better at jumping/has better form at 20" than 16", I'm running her skilled at 16".

Nice confirmation for me that Jack is more like 15" than 18" though, and makes me wonder what in the WORLD they were measuring to get 18", though!


----------



## Laurelin

We had a pretty blah class today. I am blaming it being 91 at class vs 65 last week. BLEGH. Hank was being super contrary and complaining. lol


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Does everyone have outdoor classes or something? Mine is indoors and heated/air conditioned... both places I've trained at. I can't imagine going to class outside in this weather.


----------



## CptJack

We have a mix of both. Group classes are in a barn (well 'barn' - more like big empty space with a roof, walls, and equestrian sand flooring) , and while its heated and has fans, it's a barn and not particularly well insulated so it still gets hot as blazes in summer and requires you wear a coat and gloves in winter. Private lessons are outdoors, run/throughs practices are outdoors. Trials our club hosts are mostly outdoors; the single one we host over the winter is in a livestock arenea and indoors and has heat but the same kind of heating you'd find in the barn. Ie: You're going to be wearing a coat and mittens to stay comfortable.

And while I only know much about the trials of one other club (basically our sister one) they're outside, and their classes are about in a similar facility - which is to say nice but climate control means 'you won't actually die, and it's not literally below freezing and there's air movement' rather than maintained at 72 degrees.


----------



## CptJack

The heat, relevantly, is why we just plain quit for a while last year. I'm managing it better with kylie this year, but it really is pretty killer.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Eww. So far every trial I've seen has also been inside around here too. Maybe it is because Ohio has such unpredictable weather that everything has to be inside.


----------



## CptJack

Trial before last/our first one, it rained all. day. Saturday and most of Sunday. It was also about 45-50 degrees most of the time we were there. By the time it was over everyone and everything was just COVERED in mud. Kind of fun, but yeah. Then last weekend it was 90 and blazing hot, and I kept dunking Kylie in the kiddie pool and wound up sunburned as HECK. 

OTOH, most people (and us, now) compensate pretty well with things like canaopies and tents and sunshades and rain gear and ground cover and kiddie pools and- 

But still. Here it mostly, definitely, has been an outdoor sport. And not always more fun because of it.


----------



## Laurelin

Yep all classes here are outdoors. I don't think there's a single school here that has indoor training unfortunately.

We have horrible weather here. It's just a poorer state and the agility community is small. I think cost is the biggest issue. We rarely cancel. We'll be out there practicing when it's 98F or 30F.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, this is not a wealthy area. And we really only cancel for t-storms or snow making travel impossible. *I* cop out sometimes because of heat, but mostly we make sure there's shade and water and get on with it.


----------



## LoMD13

i've only ever taken classes/trials indoors. The place I train at is heated, but doesn't have AC so they just cancel on the 1-2 days of the year that it's unbearably hot (90's) at 8:00 at night. There are TDAA trials outdoors in the summer here, but I won't even bother entering them until they go back indoors. We have a hard enough time with just agility, I don't want to have to fight with her about marking on grass in the ring.n

They'll cancel classes for heavy snow, but they never ever cancel trials. There was 30 inches of snow on the way this year and an actual blizzard warning and the trial was delayed by an hour haha. I skipped out on that one and was surprised to see people actually went to it.


----------



## CptJack

I love private lessons. If i haven't said that lately, I should. 

Had a good lesson and a good talk about where I'm losing time and what we can do about it (or I can, because this is a me issue, not a dog issue) and a solid plan about the return of my weave issues and how to handle THOSE. 

Basically, Kylie is still green enough that if my timing isn't fast enough to keep her moving she thinks she's done and swerves in to me and it costs us a ton of time. (Ie: Just pointing her at an obstacle won't make her take it yet, since she's expecting the end more than a 'next'). Also my timing being a little slow means that I'm doing more running than I need to, and both wasting time and ending up in places on the course I have no business being. 

Weave wise, Kylie's just a-) never known them well enough to be truly independent with them, and b-) I've pushed it too hard and stressed her out about them and made her LESS willing to be independent. So, we're going to work on that a couple of times a day in super short sessions, and STOP as soon as I get one good set every time. Tear it back as far as I have to, to get 80-90% success, and build more slowly from there. 

MEANWHILE, my agility training area was mowed and set back up. I have to fix one weave pole before it's truly good to go, but it's mostly there. Definitely enough that I was able to get Molly out and do a tiny bit of tunnel and jump work. The only real focus there was getting Molly to pay attention to me and follow directionals a little bit. She starts the rest of this on Tuesday, so we'll see how that goes. 

I'm feeling good about this thing right now. There is a PLAN.


----------



## Laurelin

We have one more class next weekend and then we are going to be breaking up this class. So sad, I love the group. But one person wants a break and one person wants Saturday morning class still. 2 of us want to move to week nights. I'm hoping Hank can move to a night class. It's a toss up because it's actually hotter at night but with no sun beating down on us, I feel like he does better. He was ANGRY and contrary as heck yesterday. He can't just be slow like most dogs but instead must decide not to listen at all.

I need to condition us both to the heat but it's hard with Mia's trachea issues and me needing to keep the house very cool for her. I'm trying to at least have him spend 3-4 hours outside. Ready for winter!

Here's our seesaw foundations:






Basically all I'm doing the next 6 weeks is seesaw work.


----------



## CptJack

I would be so sad if I lost some of the people we play with. I don't care so much in classes since so many drop out, but after a couple of years I've gotten attached to some of the regulars!

*ETA:* oh, other thing suggested today was that I keep written records of practice at home about at least attempts and successes/failures. Just so I have an objective view of what's there. I think that's brilliant.


----------



## kadylady

We had a GOOD weekend!!! Outside!! We only trial outside a couple times a year and this is the first one of the year. She was quite distracted on day 1, but we managed 2 out of 4 Q's (one being our final Standard Level 2 Q, so new title!). We also managed to get 12 weaves, took all 3 tries but she got it...progress. Day 2 was much better...she ran faster and less distracted. We had a really great Jumpers run, it was a nice course and no weaves in CPE jumpers so we just ran and kept running and it was our best run of the day. By the last run though she was exhausted. We picked up 3/4 Q's Sunday. We are now exactly halfway to our goal of 40 Q's by the end of the year for Nationals Qualifications. We trial again outside in 2 weeks, AKC. Kind of regretting signing up for all 3 days, 3 classes a day on that one....we are going to play it by ear though. If she gets too stressy or tired I have no problem pulling.

Saturday runs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaSV0aGMw8s

Sunday runs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MikCr7hv-nQ

ForTheLoveOfDogs....what area of Ohio if you don't mind sharing? I'm in Michigan and I know we get a lot of people from NW Ohio at our trials. Also, CPE nationals are in Springfield, Ohio next year.


----------



## Sibe

Kady that is fantastic!!!!!

Denali, after 2 weeks back in classes after having moved and being back indoors, is adjusting extremely well, loving it, and we're moving her to the competition level class. The class we've been in the last couple weeks is a lovely group and a ton of fun but not competitive.. some of the dogs are a bit spacey, distracted, and it takes a while to run all the dogs. Hopefully competition class will be smoother and we can get more work in.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

kadylady said:


> ForTheLoveOfDogs....what area of Ohio if you don't mind sharing? I'm in Michigan and I know we get a lot of people from NW Ohio at our trials. Also, CPE nationals are in Springfield, Ohio next year.


Lovely runs! I'm in NE Ohio, almost 3 hours from Springfield. I could probably go see it!


----------



## kadylady

Sibe said:


> Kady that is fantastic!!!!!


Thank you!! Great to hear that you and Denali are back into agility and doing well! 



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Lovely runs! I'm in NE Ohio, almost 3 hours from Springfield. I could probably go see it!


Thank you!! Hopefully *fingers crossed* we will be there competing! 

Almost all of the trials around here are inside as well, expect for a handful in the summer each year. My club does 2 CPE and 1 AKC trial outside every year and there's a couple other clubs that will hold 1 or 2 trials outside in the summer months. Everything is inside and most people train inside as well. Which makes trialing outside that much harder!


----------



## pawsaddict

I think I'm the only person in the world that finds front crosses incredibly confusing. I am not at all coordinated and I feel like a very confused newborn giraffe when I try to do one. It takes me back to when I tried dance classes in high school...just...no.


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> I think I'm the only person in the world that finds front crosses incredibly confusing. I am not at all coordinated and I feel like a very confused newborn giraffe when I try to do one. It takes me back to when I tried dance classes in high school...just...no.


Learning crosses was almost impossible for me on the flat, or even with just a single piece of equipment because I didn't understand how they fit together in practice. When looking at a full course, and realizing 'I have to switch sides with my dogs somehow' they become much more intuitive and generally just make a lot more sense. So less dance move AT THAT POINT and more 'that thing you do to accomplish the other thing, and without thinking about it'. Muscle memory helps though, for sure.

The names really, ultimately, in general are just ways of naming what IMO most people will do anyway (at least with front/rear/blind crosses). The set up for practices is unnatural and makes it harder (in the moment, but the practice makes it easier when you get there).

ETA: Oh, front crosses in particular. Yeah, I don't love them. I get them, I can do them now, but I don't like them and they feel more awkward to me than most others. They also hurt my knees, a lot, but I'm old. I go through stages where I use them more often, but they hurt and feel clumsier than the others.


----------



## pawsaddict

I really hope I can get to the point where they are more second-nature. I tried using a bit of a sequence this morning (with Nova) and it wasn't exactly a thing of beauty. My mind just turned to mush and she ended up getting mad at me. So I'm going to try practicing with "imaginary Nova" for a while. Hopefully that will help my brain work with my body.


----------



## CptJack

What helped me get it mentally with Kylie was realizing that really it's just about pivoting to put the dog on your other side, without taking your eyes off the dog. Ie: The whole reason a blind cross is a blind cross is you take your eyes off them. A front cross is exactly the same as a blind cross, except you have an extra step in there where you continue to face the dog.

That said, I can't do a front cross for crap with Molly. By the time I've pivoted she's 10 feet away doing something else and GONE. So rather than just front crossing it's like turn toward her, call her in to me, and then finish crossing.


----------



## Laurelin

HANK IS HAPPILY DOING THE MINI-TEETER. 

Like running to the end and slamming it down with a big grin on his face. 2 days ago he was terrified of it. Holy crud. 

HOPE. I have HOPE. I've seen soooo many dogs struggle with the teeter that it worried me. I never wanted to be a person coaxing the dog over the teeter. This class has really been great.

Now to transfer that to the real deal.

Also there was a funny moment where I was messing with the papillons and they both decided to stand on opposite sides of the teeter and perfectly balanced it out.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I am so glad that the mini-teeter is going well! Wish you had a photo of the papillons! It would win stuff!

My agility work is epically sucking. I am supposed to run a 13 obstacle sequence that consists of 4 jumps. For people struggling with front crosses, this will cure you! Work it on both sides!

I was not able to ever run this correctly with my dog, although I could do it with my other 2. Lots of work ahead:

http://youtu.be/Hvyvg_yi0zg


----------



## Laurelin

Hey! We did that exercise last week! Or pretty darn close to it. Of course Hank was like wrap? what wrap? I just want to take them all in a row! repeatedly.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I know! It's a killer! Good news though, we went back out and were able to do it! I guess that's what agility is. Find the thing you can not do and do it. 

Over and over and over again!


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> What helped me get it mentally with Kylie was realizing that really it's just about pivoting to put the dog on your other side, without taking your eyes off the dog. Ie: The whole reason a blind cross is a blind cross is you take your eyes off them. A front cross is exactly the same as a blind cross, except you have an extra step in there where you continue to face the dog.
> 
> That said, I can't do a front cross for crap with Molly. By the time I've pivoted she's 10 feet away doing something else and GONE. So rather than just front crossing it's like turn toward her, call her in to me, and then finish crossing.


I think that's one of the reasons my little front cross sequence with Nova went so horribly. I have to get a good lead on her and even then I don't have any time to think about if I'm doing the front cross correclty. She's already gone!

I'm definitely going to have to try and get the footwork (and arms) down before trying bringing her into it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

pawsaddict said:


> I think I'm the only person in the world that finds front crosses incredibly confusing. I am not at all coordinated and I feel like a very confused newborn giraffe when I try to do one. It takes me back to when I tried dance classes in high school...just...no.


I was also a front cross failure. It made no sense to me what-so-ever on the flat. I actually can only do it on the flat now that I've been using it in practice for a whole year. You are not alone and someday you will get it! If not.. you will get it in practice for sure! 

Ok.. class stuff. 
First.. I finally can do a reverse spin. I'm excited about that. Second.. wtf Kairi. Kairi was seriously confused about life tonight. She actually had great focus on me I thought because I had her reactivity pretty darn well under control. Except on the course she had no focus AT ALL. I asked her to take an obstacle to my right.. and she goes AROUND me to take the tunnel to the left. which wasn't even close to us. She did this kind of things several times. She'd go out of her way to do something completely off. It seriously made no sense. She has been off focus ever since we got the puppy.. but tonight was just especially bad. Don't worry.. I honestly just ended up laughing at her because it was just sooo bad. Any suggestion? I mean it could have been an off night but her focus (on me and where I'm asking her to go) really has been dwindling lately.


----------



## CptJack

trainingjunkie said:


> I know! It's a killer! Good news though, we went back out and were able to do it! I guess that's what agility is. Find the thing you can not do and do it.
> 
> Over and over and over again!


I have had this dicussion so many times lately. It's like a never ending thing, because you are NEVER not going to have something you're working on - or something fall apart and have to go back to it or - Yeah.

ForTheLoveOfDogs - I have no advice, though I'm sure someone will. 

I'm just going to sympathize - at least sort of. Kylie doesn't really stop... paying attention to me, per se, in that she's not highly distractable (or distractable at all) but sometimes she gets 'creative' and sometimes she just gets finished. In the last month or two we've had her running on top of tunnels, digging holes under the a-frame, working on a discrimination where I was literally BLOCKING the off course obstacle by standing in front of it and had her jump on top of the tunnel that was the right one to circumvent me to take the a-frame, Apparently forget how to weave. Stand on top of the A-Frame and HOWL. Run back and forth inside a tunnel without ever coming out of it. Stopped on a course to roll around on her back. And done a whole lot of circling around behind me to go places she had no business being, leaving me turning in circles looking for her.

Honestly, at this stage she does this stuff, I look for confirmation that it isn't me doing something weird to cause it and move on. She's a dog. Agility is a game. I don't REWARD that kind of stuff, and I do try and get more clear and set up for success, but that she does the random weird thing because it's fun for her at the time - meh. HOWEVER, again, it's not a pattern of behavior for her, either, so there's really nothing I CAN work on? It's just what she does when she gets a wild hair and goes goofy. 

...Classes with Molly start tomorrow though and I'm going to need this advice as much as you and maybe more. I am SO WORRIED about this, it's just ridiculous. But um. Long ramble aside, I guess "stalking and waiting with you"


----------



## lauren17

I was so happy with Roo last night at practice! The last couple weeks its like a switch was flipped and he's realized I exist and wants to work with me vs running around like a crazy man or losing his mind seeing the rally dogs in the next field. This was my outdoor practice class where I wasn't able to let him off leash before (its a 5 acre fenced area). He also got over his teeter fear, the movement had starting worrying him lately.


----------



## Laurelin

trainingjunkie said:


> I know! It's a killer! Good news though, we went back out and were able to do it! I guess that's what agility is. Find the thing you can not do and do it.
> 
> Over and over and over again!


Yeah that was the exact same exercise! It was eye opening for me about how much Hank is just assuming on his own what we're supposed to do vs actually following me. He is a lot better on his 'go' vs his wraps. lol


----------



## trainingjunkie

Laurelin said:


> Yeah that was the exact same exercise! It was eye opening for me about how much Hank is just assuming on his own what we're supposed to do vs actually following me. He is a lot better on his 'go' vs his wraps. lol


I guess I took for granted that my dog would turn, but I was expecting to battle him turning wide. I thought THAT was our challenge! I was thinking I would be rewarding him greatest points of collection. But then we did this and wow! I couldn't get my timing right, I was getting pull-offs, and then, in the final insult, I couldn't send him to the 4th jump if I fell too far behind. So many problems on such a "simple" exercise. Just goes to show, you don't need much equipment to work the sport. I was so glad that I videotaped all of the first session. I was so disappointed in how "he" handled. Then I watched the tape and saw that almost every error was a handling problem. I studied what I did, how it impacted him, and then tried again. When I cleaned up my handling, shock of shocks, my dog could run. Going to have to work on our "GoGoGO!" though, because I think I will be running from behind a whole, whole lot. Oh, and I need to lose at least 50 pounds.


----------



## Laurelin

trainingjunkie said:


> Oh, and I need to lose at least 50 pounds.


Haha me too! I started a new 'diet' yesterday. And we're both conditioning for the summer. 

At least agility is motivation? It's probably bad I am wanting to lose weight so I can run faster for agility.


----------



## CptJack

I don't know if it's bad or not, but add me to the list of people losing weight for/because of agility. I've actually lost quite a bit already, but I still need to lose some more.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I get a pacemaker a couple of years ago. Then, I accidently pulled a lead out of my heart and had to have surgery again to re-install it. I suspect that I did it running agility. Now, every time I try to run, I worry about my heart. It's totally stupid and I need to get over it. And if I wasn't so big, it would be a lot less scary. Time to shrink! So my poor heart doesn't have to work quite so hard!


----------



## Laurelin

I am focusing mostly on eating cleaner and exercising. Losing weight would be good but I have medical issues that make that hard so we will see. I am fairly fast compared to most agility people but I'd like to be faster. :rockon:

Look at this brave dog, guys!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Laurelin said:


> I am focusing mostly on eating cleaner and exercising. Losing weight would be good but I have medical issues that make that hard so we will see. I am fairly fast compared to most agility people but I'd like to be faster. :rockon:
> 
> Look at this brave dog, guys!


That's great! What will your bottom behavior be? Stopped or not?

Oh, and have you played with him on a skateboard?


----------



## Laurelin

Stopped probably at the tipping point then go. He keeps wanting to 2o/2o though.

I have not done skateboarding with him but have with the other two. I should bring that out! Today we are working on spinning on the plank in both directions. 

This stuff is fun!


----------



## CptJack

I think I am actually going to have to do some cavaletti work with Molly. That dog seems to have no awareness of her back legs when she jumps at all.


----------



## CptJack

Random question: What's the age range of people you see in agility, in your area? And what does the bulk seem to be?

Here I've seen 70 year olds and 12 year old's handling, but it seems that most people are in their mid-40s through mid-50s.


----------



## Laurelin

50+ for sure. There's a couple kids now and then. One high school student. A lot of 50-70s. Some younger. I am very young for our area and have had people tell me 'wow you're young for agility!' But my last class was all young people.


----------



## CptJack

My classes have a different demographic than trials. My classes tend to mostly be college kids. I see the older folks there, but there are rarely more than 2 people over 30 in class, it seems like.

And I never see the college kids (or most students in general) at trials.


----------



## pawsaddict

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I was also a front cross failure. It made no sense to me what-so-ever on the flat. I actually can only do it on the flat now that I've been using it in practice for a whole year. You are not alone and someday you will get it! If not.. you will get it in practice for sure!
> 
> Ok.. class stuff.
> First.. I finally can do a reverse spin. I'm excited about that. Second.. wtf Kairi. Kairi was seriously confused about life tonight. She actually had great focus on me I thought because I had her reactivity pretty darn well under control. Except on the course she had no focus AT ALL. I asked her to take an obstacle to my right.. and she goes AROUND me to take the tunnel to the left. which wasn't even close to us. She did this kind of things several times. She'd go out of her way to do something completely off. It seriously made no sense. She has been off focus ever since we got the puppy.. but tonight was just especially bad. Don't worry.. I honestly just ended up laughing at her because it was just sooo bad. Any suggestion? I mean it could have been an off night but her focus (on me and where I'm asking her to go) really has been dwindling lately.


Thanks!

And reverse spin...oh.my.gosh. Mind blown. Congrats!


----------



## pawsaddict

Add me to the get in shape for agility group. I've started jogging and being a lot more mindful about what I eat. Hopefully it helps. I'm sick of being a sweaty mess after running for less than a minute with Nova.

Age range of people doing agility in my area....in classes it's all over the board. Right now there is a young boy in our class (maybe 12 years old?), three 20-somethings (including myself), and a few 40+ women.

At trials that I've been to (just to watch), it's mostly 40+.


----------



## lauren17

I have started seeing a lot more college age ppl in classes lately. When I started Boomer around 10 years ago I never had a class with anyone under 40. Now I have one class that I am the oldest at 25. My other classes are pretty varied, a couple 20 to 30's and several middle aged. I've noticed a lot of my college friends have started dogs in agility now too.


----------



## kadylady

I'm one of the youngest people in my club and I'm 27. Handful of 30 somethings, but mostly 40-50+ in our club. Occasionally our classes will attract some college age people (we are in a college town so...), but mostly the 40-50+. Same with trials.

Also add me too the get in shape in order to run agility club! Zoey is forgiving....Skye is going to kick my butt when she starts...


----------



## CptJack

I sprinted the entire tunnelers run last trial and didn't pass out and die. I was so proud.


----------



## kadylady

I pushed us pretty hard in our Jumpers run this weekend, I was like listen here, you are gonna chase me for once! lol It must have worked, Jumpers was our best run!


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I sprinted the entire tunnelers run last trial and didn't pass out and die. I was so proud.


Nice!!! (Too short)


----------



## CptJack

So, Molly's doing this agility thing for real now, and um. 

She kind of sucks right now? LOL. No, in fairness it wasn't bad. She was hyped up and excited, wanted to jump all over the trainer and assistant, got 'creative' with her 2o2o behaviors, but mostly was just all excited and wiggly and very, very happy to be there and doing things.

We introduced the a-frame (lowered), she bailed from the top once but then was good. We did a jump channel and then back chained a super short squence (just tunnel, a-frame, hoop). 

She needs all kinds of work in all kinds of ways, from running with all four feet on the ground without leaping at me or biting at me (I talked about this elsewhere) and we need to solidify her paw targeting, but overall she really wasn't bad.

And it's agility. We're finally in a place I feel like I can work on THAT instead of focusing on just dealing with her reactivity and doing a ton of counter conditioning.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Wonderful!!! This is where things get really fun!


----------



## CptJack

trainingjunkie said:


> Wonderful!!! This is where things get really fun!



YES! I am SO SICK OF FOUNDATIONS RIGHT NOW. I did the regular course with Kylie 1.5 times, Bug once, and Molly twice. I have done 6 months SOLID with Molly and while I know I'll be glad later and I am extremely happy with how good it was for her socialization and in general... I am so. so. bored with it and so is Molly. 

I mean, right now her jumping is kind of crap, targeting while coming downhill is iffy/questionable, and she still wants to bite the crap out of me but I just. don't. care. I can handle ALL of that. I can handle all of that AND deal with suddenly having the overly effusive and rude dog instead of the wary/fearful one. I can teach agility behaviors and have it be fun. I can teach manners. 

But Jesus, foundations and reactivity work for six months would have KILLED ME without being able to go do courses and fun stuff with Kylie. And now I get to do fun things with TWO dogs at once!


----------



## kadylady

Yay Molly!


----------



## CptJack

I love this forum.

"My dog can't jump, is doing a HORRIBLE job at paw targeting, bites me and tries to french kiss the instructor." And I get: 



kadylady said:


> Yay Molly!


You all get me. Or it. Or both, but seriously. I love you. I love you all.


----------



## trainingjunkie

We SO need a "like" button around here! Yes! We get you! And we get "it!" And I love this forum too! So much fun to share our dogs!


----------



## Laurelin

Lol look at me in pajamas. But mostly look at Hank rocking this movement and noise thing. lol






Also 30 day shred starts tomorrow. Anyone want to join me on the agility fitness wagon?


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> I love this forum.
> 
> "My dog can't jump, is doing a HORRIBLE job at paw targeting, bites me and tries to french kiss the instructor." And I get:
> 
> 
> 
> You all get me. Or it. Or both, but seriously. I love you. I love you all.


Hehehe. We do get it. I love being able to share our struggles and then rejoice in the victories together.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> Lol look at me in pajamas. But mostly look at Hank rocking this movement and noise thing. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also 30 day shred starts tomorrow. Anyone want to join me on the agility fitness wagon?


Go Hank!! 

And yes to the agility fitness wagon! Lol


----------



## Laurelin

I almost feel like agility fitness needs its own thread. lol

I too adore this thread. Love it so much. And the people in it. 

So I am re-training Mia's teeter. Yes, she is retired from agility but she's always been nervous. And it's something she can do without much running and getting overheated. 

So here is Mia's teeter 'before'. Obviously not a big fan. I will get back to you guys in a few weeks with an 'after' hopefully. I also just want to try another dog on these things. 






Is she not the cutest thing in the world? I adore that dog.


----------



## Laurelin

Also while we're at it, here is the only video of Mia running agility. This is Mia's only USDAA Q before her health issues started. Nov 2013!


----------



## CptJack

Mia is, and probably will always be, my favorite. She is adorable and just... oozes MIANESS in everything. I'm oddly thrilled you're doing the teeter work with her, too.

--

More concretely on my end my goal this week trianing wise is just get Kylie back to independent, happy weaving on her 'good' side, and to work a bit with targeting coming downhill with Molly and maybe a bit of jump work if I'm feeling ambitious. 

Also considering packing up every piece of agility equipment I own, going to a park and spreading out and seeing what I can accomplish re: getting Molly to do ANYTHING with me in a new location.


----------



## CptJack

...I realized last night, while falling asleep, that I'm kind of an idiot. 

I was having real trouble getting Molly down the jump channel - she just wasn't focused on the other end of the thing, and never really took her attention off me. ...Should have used a toy instead of food on a target. At the time, in spite of having a bunch of toys with me, it just didn't occur to me. Dear brain, get with the program.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> Lol look at me in pajamas. But mostly look at Hank rocking this movement and noise thing. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also 30 day shred starts tomorrow. Anyone want to join me on the agility fitness wagon?


Hank looks like he is really making good progress on that teeter! Good boy.


----------



## LoMD13

Mia is the cutest munchkin, i'm so glad you're doing the teeter with her too! 

Me and Lola both need to lose some weight for agility! She put on a pound over the really crazy winter we had. I was hoping the past 2 weeks to really get out and play a lot of frisbee outside, but now i've got a newborn fawn that's been hiding out in the yard and I don't want to disturb her (Or incur the wrath of it's mama) So hallway ball it is! 

We've taken a 2 week break from agility, starting back up tonight! Unfortunately it'll be really hot (In the upper 80's for most of the day) So my expectations are set really low.


----------



## So Cavalier

So Baxter has been weaving 12 poles for a few weeks now....I swear his weaves are so much better than Gemma's....my novice baby weaves better than my champ....2x2 method vs old school.....winner, winner, chicken dinner.


----------



## LoMD13

Me and Lo had a really really awesome class. It was extremely hot (85 at 8:00 pm, that's scorching hot for New England dogs!) She was so amped up for our run, running as fast as she could. It was really fun to see 

We missed one jump, and I fought my initial instinct to stop and fix it and we kept going and finished beautifully and then went back and fixed that jump. She gets really demotivated if I try and work on something mid-run, so i'm trying to stop that.


----------



## CptJack

Went to a private lesson. Had a good lesson (really good lesson. She had a course set, had me walk it and come up with a plan, tell her what my plan was, try the plan, and then went through with me and tried assorted other handling options. REALLY educational and useful) and then bought a set of 4 hoops for 50.00 and brought them home. I don't love hoops, but they are absolutely fantastic for handling things and they're easy to transport and store and easy on the dogs bodies. Plus having them here will help with the 'what do you mean a hoop is an obstacle' process for Molly.


----------



## Laurelin

good day today all around. Well good weekend. Hank and Summer have been BUSY and been carted around everywhere this weekend. Too hot for poor Mia.  She's been bunking it at home with my dad's dogs (yes, I'm back to 5 dogs again- ACK!) Yesterday it was nosework sniff and go and both did well though Hank's teeter games meant he thought he was supposed to stomp all the boxes.

Today Summer did 3 agility runs in TDAA and finally Q'd in superior standard! Finally! But she ran great all day and had fun. Nailed her weaves! Next trial isn't till September so we'll see. I'm not sure if she'll still be up for agility or not since by that point she would have been out of classes for a whole year. But we may get some ring rentals and maybe that will work? I dunno. Semi-retirement but she has fun. 

Hank played in the yard with me on the a frame and good golly he may have it now. He was actually going full speed and stopping on the bottom pretty well. We also had fun sending him to wrap trees and then a-frame. I don't know why that was so fun. 

Then we had a teenage puppy play date! It was a blast! Hank and a mini aussie and a corgi and a schnauzer and icelandic sheepdog. They ran and ran and ran. Hank just kept on running. He got a lot of comments about how fast he was and how much energy. It's really dawning on me that Hank is not 'high energy'. He's really ridiculously high energy. All the other dogs were pooped after a while and Hank was still doing laps. And he's FAST. None of the others could catch him. I got asked how I live with him at one point... which is funny because he's easy. I just said he turns on and turns off both very well. I seriously wish he was a breed. He's the perfect energy level for me. 

Which brings me to the next point. They want me to do TDAA with him but I just don't know. He's just too fast and I'm afraid it'll slow him down. But I love that crowd here and how laid back it is. If Summer permanently retires then I won't have a reason to go to the trials. Bummer. But I don't want to wreck Hank's speed for the big dog venues because I like those better.

Then we did nosework with Summer tagging along to Hank's class. But I ended up there too early so we played in the 90 degree heat a while in the field. He did good at nosework on interior searches and we got rained in so class went long because it was pouring. And now both he and Summer are passed out. LOL There's an ORT in August. I'm not sure if that will be too soon?


----------



## CptJack

I did all of about 15 minutes of backyard agility with Molly, mostly just working on holding a start-line stay, choosing to jump, a little bit of sending to a jump and then a little bit of discrimination. I think I can work this out and get her where I want her at home - in fact I know I can. I was getting crazy speed and enthusiasm and could see her catching on, because she WANTED that ball throw. 

I... have no idea how to translate that to class, where she sometimes sort of plays and sometimes doesn't play because she's stressed, and sometimes plays way too hard because she's so overstimulated that she's a bit all over. Maybe just experience and exposure. IDK. Guess we'll see how it goes Tuesday, because I fully intend to try more with the SQUEAKY ball, which is the best ball.

Lots of experimentation going on with Molly right now, re: what gets me what I want, under variable circumstances. It's weird, I've had her since she was tiny and trained her since then but I feel like I almost don't know her at ALL when it comes to this agility stuff.


----------



## LoMD13

We haven't been able to play agility in our backyard (or play ANYTHING out there) for weeks now because we've got a wee baby fawn back there. It's cute as a button, but I'm ready to have my yard back. 

We had a really nice agility weekend though. We did a day of run thrus yesterday, and it was so hot and humid and we ended up being there longer than I had thought we would. Still, Lo did awesome. She was SO easy to amp up, and a few people commented that she was really excited to go in there. We've had some slowness and motivational issues before, so that was the best thing ever. 

The bad news is that our down on the table is just about at rock bottom. We had a little battle of wills over it, she stared at me Blankly like she had never heard the word or seen the signal before in her entire life lol. She offered a bow at one point I think. I finally got a down, and then I didnt ask for it the next time since I didn't want it to ruin her fun. We're going to go back to square 1 like she's a baby puppy learning down for the first time. I'd really hate to see a Perfect USDAA run NQ'd because of a stupid down.


----------



## dogsule

Sorry I haven't been here in awhile now but I had to come and let you all know that Belle has earned her AKC Novice Agility title, this past weekend! I am so proud of her! We did both Saturday and Sunday this time as we usually only do one day of the trials. She had one more Q to get in both Standard and Jumpers to earn both of those titles. 

Saturday we started out with Standard and the third obstacle was the A frame. Belle mis-stepped or something and she fell and slammed into the A frame with her chest right at the top of the contact point, she almost rolled and then got her footing and jumped down, so no Q for that. We did finish the course though without too much trouble. It didn't seem to phase Belle one bit though but the judge came over to me after the class and asked if she was ok. Jumpers was going perfect, exactly as I walked it until the tunnel where I anticipated Belle just going in the end I wanted her to while I ran to the other end. Totally my fault as she started for the right end but then came with me and I couldn't stop her from going into the wrong end. No wrong course allowed in Jumpers. Other than that it was faultless but alas no Q. 

Sunday I was just a tad concerned about Belle not wanting to do the A frame but my worries were unfounded. Other than wanting to sniff something on the dog walk, she was flawless and we earned a perfect score and Belle got her Novice Agility title! Yeah!! Video to follow. I was all pumped up to earn the jumpers title too even though the tunnel was setup so she could easily go in the wrong end (unlike Saturdays where it was obvious and just I screwed up). Well Belle seemed oddly distracted right from the get go and dang if she didn't have to poop! Of all the things that she could do wrong at a trial that was the last thing I ever thought she would do. She has never ever pooped in class, if she had to go she ran to the door in class. Oh well at least it was right at the beginning instead of having me think we would get it and then go. How embarrassing though but now I can say btdt!!

All in all it was a great weekend. Not once did Belle try to visit a barsetter or the judge, she was totally focused on me!! Last year at this time she was barely going over the teeter and now she has earned a title!! What an awesome little dog.....I just love her! 

Introducing....

Belle's Gingersnap, NA!!
20150614_124347a by rzyg, on Flickr

and here is the video of her title earning run!!

photobucket...


or Flickr...
https://flic.kr/p/upypam

Next trial is on July 27th, (oops that is June 27th) hopefully we can get the Jumpers title at this one and hopefully we do ok in the open classes!! I have a feeling if we struggle in open it is going to be the handlers fault. LOL!


----------



## taquitos

Ugh we had a terrible class today. Meeko wasn't himself -- all anxious and all over the place  I almost wanted to cry at some point but my instructor is always so awesome when it comes to comforting students. I have to remember that for Meeko every agility class involves overcoming many fears (larger dogs, strangers, strange objects, etc.). I was also just not feeling "it" today and really felt off sync with him. Poor dude. He kept wanting to leave and was really distracted


----------



## Sibe

taquitos said:


> Ugh we had a terrible class today. Meeko wasn't himself -- all anxious and all over the place  I almost wanted to cry at some point but my instructor is always so awesome when it comes to comforting students. I have to remember that for Meeko every agility class involves overcoming many fears (larger dogs, strangers, strange objects, etc.). I was also just not feeling "it" today and really felt off sync with him. Poor dude. He kept wanting to leave and was really distracted


 I'm sorry you had such a rough day  Some days just aren't good days. Sounds like your instructor really is great. I've been through a lot of frustration with Denali at trials due to her stress, and ultimately found that the more I tried to push it and have her work through it, the worse and worse she got. If it's not fun, take a step back. If he's struggling I'm sure your instructor would have no problem with you two doing an easy confidence lap instead of the course that is set up. Go out, do something you *know* he can conquer even if it's just one jump, or a jump to tunnel if he loves tunnels (or to whatever obstacle he loves), or a lap around the outside obstacles if he can handle that, and then be super excited and be done with your turn.


----------



## CptJack

I think Meeko is still really, really early in the game and still being introduced to equipment. I do agree, though. Get him to succeed at something, however little, and reward the snot out of him and take a break and try again next turn or next week. I've had to do a lot of backing off with Kylie over time, for various stress related issues. ...see also me totally rebuilding our weaves from the ground up, because I pushed too hard and she got all stressed at them and refused.


----------



## Sibe

CptJack said:


> I think Meeko is still really, really early in the game and still being introduced to equipment. I do agree, though. Get him to succeed at something, however little, and reward the snot out of him and take a break and try again next turn or next week. I've had to do a lot of backing off with Kylie over time, for various stress related issues. ...see also me totally rebuilding our weaves from the ground up, because I pushed too hard and she got all stressed at them and refused.


 Ah! I missed that. Especially being new to the game, make sure it's a fun game.

I did the same with Nali's weaves. She learned them so well, was outstanding in classes, and then started to stress and pop out or refuse in trials. I didn't know it was stress at the time, so kept having her redo them which made it SO much worse. Had to take months off (more than once) after bad trials just to rebuild confidence on the weaves.


----------



## CptJack

Yep. Kylie got them really, really well. Was excellent with 6, then I started working toward 12 about the time we were practicing for a trial where she was entered into all the weavers runs. It was my second trial and I was all stressed and worried about the weaving and drilling it waaaay too much WHILE upping the difficulty (collection, angles, entries, and 12 instead of 6). Weaves went away completely. Looking at her, you'd think she'd never seen a weave in her life.

I'm only allowed (per my trainer and my own, too often ignored, sense.) to do them twice a day and and we're DONE with a given session at our first successful completion. No no reward markers, no resetting, no pressure at all. She fails, she still gets a yay and treated. Finish them right and she gets a jackpot and we move on to something else. We're almost back to where we were with 6. _Almost_.

I could kick myself.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

taquitos said:


> Ugh we had a terrible class today. Meeko wasn't himself -- all anxious and all over the place  I almost wanted to cry at some point but my instructor is always so awesome when it comes to comforting students. I have to remember that for Meeko every agility class involves overcoming many fears (larger dogs, strangers, strange objects, etc.). I was also just not feeling "it" today and really felt off sync with him. Poor dude. He kept wanting to leave and was really distracted


We all have bad days in agility. Last week Kairi blew me off for just about everything I asked her. We really lacked a connection that night and I was kind of spaced out anyway. Don't stress too much.. Meeko is learning to build confidence in a strange environment. It will take awhile and sometimes setbacks happen. There was a dog that started in my class who was afraid of a lot of things. She didn't like men. The loud noises scared her. She was slow to take the equipment and always stuck close to her handler because she was nervous. Flashforward about 4-5 months and I don't even know this dog anymore. She is so happy and bouncy now without a care in the world. Tonight she blew off her handler to go across the room and steal some treats from her treat bag. Don't rush it.. and don't be too upset about it. Just keep working with him, but don't pressure him too hard. I'm sure you and him will both grow with a little patience. 

This week in class..

Kairi was much better. She was attentive and we nailed most of our sequences. I'm proud of this girl. When she is on and doing her best.. she is fantastic!


----------



## dogsule

taquitos said:


> Ugh we had a terrible class today. Meeko wasn't himself -- all anxious and all over the place  I almost wanted to cry at some point but my instructor is always so awesome when it comes to comforting students. I have to remember that for Meeko every agility class involves overcoming many fears (larger dogs, strangers, strange objects, etc.). I was also just not feeling "it" today and really felt off sync with him. Poor dude. He kept wanting to leave and was really distracted


How long has Meeko been taking classes? Belle has noise issues and the first time I took her to a class where the trials are held (an hour away from our town where we normally have class) she was terrified of the place and wanted to leave, this was back in February of this year. Wouldn't run the course and just kept trying to escape the ring. The instructor was great with us though and wouldn't let her self reward by letting her leave the ring. We didn't have to run the course just keep her doing something out there and reward her lots. It took three classes there for her to start feeling more at ease and now she is totally comfortable there. She has always been intimidated by loud barking dogs and especially when they bark aggressively as you hear at times during the trials. She was also scared of the teeter bang, both when she did it and when other dogs did it. I still treat her almost every time the teeter bangs although now it doesn't bother her as much. This time last year I could barely get her over the teeter and now she goes over it just fine, still doesn't run and bang hard it but she isn't intimidated by it either. Barking dogs aren't bothering her as much either but for awhile I was starting to think I would need to maybe not do agility as it seemed to scare her so much at first however she always seemed to enjoy running the courses. I am glad I stuck with it cause she is really getting to be good and really seems to like it. One thing I don't think she gets now is the fact that she loves everyone and would love to greet every dog and person she meets however lots of agility dogs are not really all that dog friendly.


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> Introducing....
> 
> Belle's Gingersnap, NA!!


Huge congrats dogsule and Belle!!!!! Really nice run!!

And welcome to Open! I've been told it's referred to as Open purgatory lol We've been in Open JWW for almost a year now, with 1 leg left to get.


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> I'm sorry you had such a rough day  Some days just aren't good days. Sounds like your instructor really is great. I've been through a lot of frustration with Denali at trials due to her stress, and ultimately found that the more I tried to push it and have her work through it, the worse and worse she got. If it's not fun, take a step back. If he's struggling I'm sure your instructor would have no problem with you two doing an easy confidence lap instead of the course that is set up. Go out, do something you *know* he can conquer even if it's just one jump, or a jump to tunnel if he loves tunnels (or to whatever obstacle he loves), or a lap around the outside obstacles if he can handle that, and then be super excited and be done with your turn.


This is exactly what our instructor did with Belle when she was scared of the place. Didn't care if she ran the course just wanted her to do something out there and not let her self reward by letting her leave. It is hard to go to class (especially when I had to drive an hour) and not really get to work on the courses but to just play in the ring to make her feel more at ease). I am glad we are over that now though. However I have a feeling if we were to trial at any other place, it might happen again there too. I am really not sure. I can read Belle really well though and can tell immediately if she isn't comfortable with something.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Huge congrats dogsule and Belle!!!!! Really nice run!!
> 
> And welcome to Open! I've been told it's referred to as Open purgatory lol We've been in Open JWW for almost a year now, with 1 leg left to get.


Thank you! Yes I have heard that too about Open. I know I won't get out of Open as quickly as I got out of Novice. Going to be much harder now however Belle is getting better too. It is more me I am worried about now. Harder to remember the course and where I need to be and Belle isn't a slow dog for the most part. She went very slow over the dogwalk cause she was smelling it though but I never know if I need to go fast or slow with her as I never quite know what how she is going to run. I do know right now as least I need to stay with her on the weaves as if I try to distance myself from her or get ahead of her she pulls out of them. I/we are having lots of fun though!!


----------



## CptJack

Class was good. Reactivity seems to no longer be worth giving serious space to, either mental or in posts. 

We worked on a slightly higher a-frame, introduced the dog walk and collapsed tunnel, and did a little bit of jump work. Oh, and barrel. She did best with the jumping, chute, and barrel. Even did some figure 8 type jump work, which was good to see in class ( I know she CAN but having her do it in class and do it in our yard are different). Finally got the training assistant to stay put and load the target at the end of the chute which was also nice. 

Our on-going issue is going to be contact stuff. She hits it, but then she pivots her rear 90 degrees instead of staying on the obstacle. We've worked it on hills and stairs at home and it's been okay, but it's just not translating to the actual obstacles. Not quite sure what I'm going to do about it yet. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.

ETA: And upon reflection (and some pointed questions elsewhere) I think the issue is that she's not shifting her weight back on the downside and her pivot off is just to keep her from landing on her face. So the basic issue is to get her to 'lean back' on the way down.


----------



## Laurelin

Belle looks great! Congrats on the new title!


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> ETA: And upon reflection (and some pointed questions elsewhere) I think the issue is that she's not shifting her weight back on the downside and her pivot off is just to keep her from landing on her face. So the basic issue is to get her to 'lean back' on the way down.


I took a contacts class with Zoey last year and one thing that we did a lot of at the beginning was having the dog hop up on to the down side of the contacts, just above the contact zone basically, and then drive to the bottom. We were rewarding with food on target plates to encourage head down and drive to bottom and getting the reward immediately, before they had a chance to pop off. We did a lot of that first to show the dogs how to drive to the bottom properly, then added the entire contact obstacle. I've started doing a little bit of shaping that same thing with Skye at the bottom of the DW, AF and teeter. She's never done full obstacles yet, but I hope that shaping this end behavior first with her will make the understanding easier. Zoey I did it opposite, learn then obstacle then add the 2o2o. Should be interesting to see a difference.

In other news, Zoey and I had a short, last minute lesson with my instructor last night...it was absolutely fabulous!!!! I kind of starting freaking out about this weekend (AKC outside at a new place for us) and our little session last night made me feel so much better. We went to another school by my house, there was a few kids playing on the playground on one side of us, a group of guys playing basketball on another side, and a dog parking through a fence on another side. We set up 1 jump and 12 weaves. Got her out, did a few tricks for warm-up and focus, she was totally ignoring the kids screaming and running right past our setup (which is huge in itself because Zoey is pretty terrified of kids, especially ones that scream and run). Our first rep was jump straight on to 12 weaves...I fully expected her to run right past as is her usual reaction in that type of situation. She nailed it. Perfect. We did about 6-8 reps of different entry angles, she struggled with 1 entry, but other than that nailed it all! Not one refusal, even when the group of 6 big guys playing basketball walked right past our setup while she was weaving, she got the entry, popped when she saw them headed towards us, then popped back in and finished and got the biggest jackpot of her life! Kids and men are huge stress triggers for her and she totally conquered it all last night! 

I am so incredibly proud of Zoey. Last night I started to get a little emotional about how much she has changed in just the last year. She has overcome so many fears and challenges and it was has been so amazing to watch her confidence just grow so much through agility. My shy little rescue dog, she is turning into a social butterfly at agility events, she's overcoming distractions and environmental stress left and right, I doubt us and she proves me wrong, every time she's exceeding my expectations and amazing me every step of the way and we are having so much fun together! This dog... she's just amazing, beyond what words can describe. And we are going to have fun this weekend. We've never been so prepared before, we can handle this, we have a game plan, and no matter what happens in the ring, I will be incredibly proud of my little Zoey girl. 

*donebeingemotionalnow*


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Belle looks great! Congrats on the new title!


Thank you!!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Puppy brag! Ember did great with my husband in puppy agility tonight. She did great entering tunnels from different angles. She was very confident and completely ignored all the crazy retrievers and the reactive terrier around her. I'm really hoping she stays non reactive.. because having 2 reactive dogs in agility would be obnoxious! 

Also.. mock trial this weekend with Kairi. Eeep.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank did good today. We did his weaves which were great. Some straight line stuff. 

Then we had a class competition where Hank failed all the obedience portions but came back and won the whole thing because we all did our own course and he did 14 obstacles (jumps and tunnels) in 15 seconds. So that was fun.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> Hank did good today. We did his weaves which were great. Some straight line stuff.
> 
> Then we had a class competition where Hank failed all the obedience portions but came back and won the whole thing because we all did our own course and he did 14 obstacles (jumps and tunnels) in 15 seconds. So that was fun.


Wow! Go Hank! He sounds like he is doing GREAT! 

Practice trial went alright. I feel more comfortable in the trial environment and confident that I will be able to do this. I met a lot of really nice local people that were very positive, helpful and laid back.

Kairi got a Q on her first run with 1 off course. She really, really, wanted to sniff the floor because she has never been there. If I could have had her at full focus, she would have rocked it. Her second run was in Snooker.. which honestly just kinda sucked because I didn't read the rules correctly which threw off my whole plan once I noticed my plan was wrong. Kairi blew me off a million times. Part of that because she was just not focused on what _I_ wanted and part of that because I had no idea what I was doing. I won't blame her for that one. 

We both had a lot of fun and learned a lot. I think I'm going to sign up for some private classes with Kairi. We really need to work on regaining focus. She loves the game but she doesn't always want to go where I'm asking her (aka likes making up her own course). This kinda started ever since we got Ember. I don't know what the deal is, but all I can come up with is taking it down a notch and rewarding her for each little thing and amount of focus while running courses/sequences.


----------



## CptJack

I have had off side weaves with Kylie's TWO DAYS IN A ROW. And I've gotten her weaned off staring up at me the whole time AND the 'yes' for every correct pole. Also, I can now say 'wrong side' when she hits them wrong and have her change. I realize that's not the same as independent weaving and finding the entrance herself, but it amuses me all the same. I've been re-teaching Kylie's contacts, too, since I've got the stuff out to work with Molly. More proofing with her but it's worthwhile and gives her a change of mental pace.

Baby dog news, Molly SEEMS to be getting the idea that she needs to keep her butt on the board (I'm literally using a board propped up on a tire (laid flat) with the target at the bottom right now) to get the reward. Meanwhile she handles like a dream for other things (sending, backsides, crosses, direction changes, and the like). Just those freaking contacts. 

I'd definitely do some privates if you can get them, ForTheLove - I get roughly 200% more out of private lessons than group classes. Group classes are great for distractions and socialization and all but for actual learning and addressing specific issues nothing beats some one on one time. I'm also really, really glad you had a good mock trial and feel more confident in the environment now. I don't have any more trials until September and I'm missing it like crazy.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations to everyone! Sounds like things are going really well! This thread has gotten so popular that it's getting hard to keep up!

I have a story: I walked out of an agility class and asked for my money back. Now, I'm all depressed and I feel like a Diva and I halfway hate myself. I could use some cheering up or a good kick in the butt to tell me I'm wrong. Not sure which...

I enrolled in a class with a good friend and showed up super excited. Then, I saw the tunnels and the weaves. The weaves were 21 inches instead of regulation 24. And none of the tunnels were anchored. Not at all. Nothing. I have a very fast dog. He was going to roll the tunnels and he weaves really fast. I was afraid he would get hurt or scared in the tight weaves, given his speed. I asked her to bag the tunnels. She said no. I asked if she had regulation weaves. She did, but she wasn't willing to put them out. 

So I quit. 

Now, I am sorta hating on myself. The instructor is talented and wonderful, but I couldn't get past my concerns. I am a Diva. I am one of "Those" people.


----------



## CptJack

...you are not a diva. I am nowhere near as experienced as you, but I would have walked, too.

And I never walk. Because I'm chicken.

The weaves wouldn't be a big deal for me witth my dog necessarily, though I wouldn't love it. Tunnels that aren't anchored? Oh, no way. That just isn't safe. I won't even do that in my backyard with KYLIE. Who is slowish and tiny. No way, no how, not ever. I've seen too much movement in belted and anchored bags to play that game.


----------



## LoMD13

Back from our very first NADAC trial (And only Lola's 2nd time at a new place). 

We LOVED it. Lola was so fast and peppy even towards the end of a long day. We ended up with a Q and first place in tunnelers and regular. And an NQ in regular because she got sucked to the dog walk, but she was still under time even having to go back and correct that. 











Here's our tunnelers run. I was so proud of that one. I'll get the regulars up too.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Thank you. I hope you're right. I am starting to feel high maintenance. Given the way my large dog attacks the weaves, I *think* it would have been a big deal, but perhaps I'm wrong. My main fear with the weaves and the tunnels was that my dog would not trust me again and would always wonder if new weaves and tunnels were safe. Talk about a speed killer. 

And that's if he didn't get hurt.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Huge congratulations LoMD13!

Way to go!


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, the reason I specified my dog was my dog is eleven inches high. Those 3" wouldn't matter much to her. Molly? Oh yeah. Even with Kylie I would be terrified of her moving the tunnels and developing a phobia. 

You aren't high maintance. You're paying for this and protecting your dog, reasonably. Seriously.

Go Lola go! Gad you guys had fun. I was waiting on a report back.


----------



## CptJack

Did this instructor Offer an explanation, trainingjunkie? Not that it matters, but I'm curious now, since she HAD the proper equipment.


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack said:


> Did this instructor Offer an explanation, trainingjunkie? Not that it matters, but I'm curious now, since she HAD the proper equipment.


She had it in a trailer that she hauls to trials to provide regulation stuff. Just too much work to take it out and reload it. And it would have been a lot of work, no doubt.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, I've done my share of loading and unloading and it is hard. Still isn't much of an excuse, barring some kind of physical issue. I mean weaves and tunnel bags are not exactly aframes and dog walks. The weave bases weigh nothing, and neither do their poles. Tunnel bags are heavy but she should have about a billion making them pretty easy to get to and it's not hard to carry two at a time.

I mean if she'd said 'I haven't had time this week to unload, but things will be back next week' fine, stay in the class and wait out week one but 'work on non-regulation, unsecured equipment?' no.

For the record, my instructor has formed my attitude. I've seen her dismantle and REMOVE equipment to keep dogs away from it if they weren't, in her opinion, ready for it. She stores non-bagged tunnels collapsed and turned on their end to keep dogs out of them. If you let your untrained dog 'play' on equipment, she has WORDS for you. And this is a lady who doesn't require crates in classes.

So I'm actually pretty shocked by the level of casual disregard from the woman you walked away from.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I didn't mention this, but also: She couldn't set her jumps to 24", my dog's competition height. I had to chose between 22" and 26". She only has bars for USDAA heights. PLUS, she uses 6 inch screws for bar holders instead of jump cups and the screws jut out about 5 inches from the raiser bar. If my dog did a tight wrap, I am afraid he could take out an eye or tear his thin skin.

No one else had a problem with any of that though, so I doubt myself.


----------



## CptJack

trainingjunkie said:


> I didn't mention this, but also: She couldn't set her jumps to 24", my dog's competition height. I had to chose between 22" and 26". She only has bars for USDAA heights. PLUS, she uses 6 inch screws for bar holders instead of jump cups and the screws jut out about 5 inches from the raiser bar. If my dog did a tight wrap, I am afraid he could take out an eye or tear his thin skin.
> 
> No one else had a problem with any of that though, so I doubt myself.


I admit that if you came to our classes, you'd probably be frustrated because NADAC is the game in the area and where our instructor competes (and we're a NADAC club) , so aside from introducing the chute and teeter and teaching a fast down, we're pretty NADAC compliant which means non-slatted contact equipment (rubberized) once you hit run throughs or privates, and I don't think our jumps can be set above 20". 

The screws thing horrifies and scares me, regardless. It's probably worth remembering that these people are her students? She's likely been teaching them before this OR they have little to no experience and safety issues just haven't occurred to them either way. You don't know what you don't know, you know?


----------



## trainingjunkie

Yes. You are right. You don't know what you don't know. And likely, it all would have been okay. But I couldn't have forgiven myself if something had gone wrong.

My personal equipment does not have slats, so that wouldn't bother us! But the rest, well... Call me paranoid.

Thank you for the support. I feel better now. I felt awful dropping out after the first session. I totally blamed it on myself. I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers.


----------



## CptJack

It's REALLY nice non-slatted equipment?

But yeah, stop beating yourself up. I'd call that a smart call and a good decision and putting your dog first.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Three inches might make a difference!


----------



## CptJack

Yeaaah, 3" there would scare the crap out of me. Also holy wow he is beautiful.

Out of curiosity, how tall is he/what's he weigh?


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack said:


> Yeaaah, 3" there would scare the crap out of me. Also holy wow he is beautiful.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how tall is he/what's he weigh?


22" and 35 pounds.

Thank you! I adore him! We just celebrated one year together!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

trainingjunkie said:


> Congratulations to everyone! Sounds like things are going really well! This thread has gotten so popular that it's getting hard to keep up!
> 
> I have a story: I walked out of an agility class and asked for my money back. Now, I'm all depressed and I feel like a Diva and I halfway hate myself. I could use some cheering up or a good kick in the butt to tell me I'm wrong. Not sure which...
> 
> I enrolled in a class with a good friend and showed up super excited. Then, I saw the tunnels and the weaves. The weaves were 21 inches instead of regulation 24. And none of the tunnels were anchored. Not at all. Nothing. I have a very fast dog. He was going to roll the tunnels and he weaves really fast. I was afraid he would get hurt or scared in the tight weaves, given his speed. I asked her to bag the tunnels. She said no. I asked if she had regulation weaves. She did, but she wasn't willing to put them out.
> 
> So I quit.
> 
> Now, I am sorta hating on myself. The instructor is talented and wonderful, but I couldn't get past my concerns. I am a Diva. I am one of "Those" people.


That does not sound like a class I would have been part of, going off of this and your other comments later. You were doing what you felt was best for you and your dog. There is nothing dramatic about it. I'm only taking classes with regulation equipment. Call me snooty. 

LoMD13 - Congrats to you and Lola! Great job!


----------



## kadylady

Let me see if I can put this feeling into words.....

BEST.WEEKEND.EVERRRRRRR!!!! 

No Q's, no ribbons, no new titles.... Something even better happened this weekend. 

My happy, confident little Zoey dog was back!!!! And...by day 3, she nailed her weaves in both classes on the FIRST TRY!! To which we promptly ran out of the ring celebrating and she received the biggest jackpots of her life! 

We tried some new things, like making her come back and sit when she blew past the weaves. And not getting any cookies on runs where she didn't complete the weaves. Saturday in our Standard run she got carried off the course for the first time in her life when we used up our 3 attempts. And that could have gone good or bad, because Zoey is a pretty soft dog. But our next run (Open JWW Sat) after the one where I carried her off was one of the best! Used 2 attempts on the weaves but she did get them and she ran really fast and our handling was really pretty spot on. 

Sunday was the icing on the cake. Excellent Standard, nailed the weaves on the first try. We ran off and jackpotted. Open JWW, nailed the weaves and a more difficult entry on the first try! We ran out and got another huge jackpot! I was so so so so so happy! Like on the brink of tears happy. We've spent the last year either using multiple attempts on the weaves or just not getting them at all and this weekend was such a relief to see that yes she can do this and yes all the work we've been doing lately is helping. I know we still have a ways to go to develop consistency but it's such a relief to see that yes, she does enjoy playing this game with me! Love that little dog so dang much!

Oh! And all of this happened outside, in a new place we have never been to before! 

Videos!

Highlight clips from Saturday and Sunday.





If you want to watch full run for all 3 days here they are:
Friday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEsXT0JRW9I
Saturday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j51jmTr4s0
Sunday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=intxexRs_aU


----------



## trainingjunkie

That's awesome! So happy for you! That's huge!

Congratulations!


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie said:


> That's awesome! So happy for you! That's huge!
> 
> Congratulations!


Thank you so much!! 

Also, reading back a few posts... I totally agree with your decision to drop out of the class. I can't imagine any scenario at all where tunnel bags wouldn't be considered absolutely necessary! That's completely ridiculous (in my opinion) and I wouldn't run any of my dogs through an unbagged tunnel! Slow or fast! It would probably scare the pants off Zoey and Skye would send it rolling like a hamster on a wheel! No way! I also wouldn't want my dogs on non-regulation weaves. The footwork and rhythm is such a huge part of the weaves that I wouldn't want to throw my dog off with 2 different sizes. Maybe....*maybe*...if I had a young dog still learning the weaves. But if my dog is at any point where they are starting to develop rhythm and footwork in the weaves I'm not going to start changing up the size on them. I think you were totally justified in dropping out of the class and I don't think you were a diva at all. I am seriously shocked at the tunnel bag thing. If the instructor was that talented and wonderful, she wouldn't have ever put her students in that situation. Just my opinion. Sorry you were put into that situation and had to make that call, but I 100% agree with your decision and would have done that same myself.


----------



## dogsule

LoMD13 said:


> Back from our very first NADAC trial (And only Lola's 2nd time at a new place).
> 
> We LOVED it. Lola was so fast and peppy even towards the end of a long day. We ended up with a Q and first place in tunnelers and regular. And an NQ in regular because she got sucked to the dog walk, but she was still under time even having to go back and correct that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's our tunnelers run. I was so proud of that one. I'll get the regulars up too.


This is so cool, never heard of tunnelers. So it is just tunnels. Belle would love that!


----------



## pawsaddict

Question...

Although Nova and I are worlds -- no, galaxies -- away from trialling, I am curious....how do you know when you and your partner are ready for that? Is it just a feeling you have? Is there a general amount of practice time most people put in before they are ready to trial? How did you know you both were ready to start competing?


----------



## Laurelin

Hank is joining a new clas tonight! Kind of nervous for idk why reason! Be cool to meet some new dogs.


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Question...
> 
> Although Nova and I are worlds -- no, galaxies -- away from trialling, I am curious....how do you know when you and your partner are ready for that? Is it just a feeling you have? Is there a general amount of practice time most people put in before they are ready to trial? How did you know you both were ready to start competing?



With Kylie, I started trialing pretty much the first 'home' trial after she could weave. I was encouraged to enter her before that just for the experience, but I didn't want to make a fool of myself. In retrospect, I should have gone ahead and entered her. She's not a dog who was ever going to be out of control, and she is a dog who struggles with stress. I have also sense learned that not only am I going to make a fool of myself, so is everyone else - including experienced handlers with elite dogs.

My plan with Molly is basically to get her into the ring at the first home trial after she's old enough via NADAC rules (18 months). That should be in January, when she'll actually be about 20 months old. The only thing that is contingent upon is her going along to a couple of trials as a spectator dog and handling that moderately well. Also, to some degree, how she handles the club practices/run-throughs in the run up to that trial (ie: she'll at least MOSTLY stay with me). 

Her actual agility performance will determine what classes she's entered in (ie: what she can SAFELY perform), which means we might just do tunnelers, or we might do Touch 'n Go which has no weaves, or whatever, but my primary objective there is in the ring, seeing where she's at so I know what I need to focus on, and just a little bit of experience. 

Other people are very much of the waiting until the dog is really, truly, rock steady and I think that's okay too.

I just am coming down on the side of 'pay 11 dollars or so for a couple of minutes of ring time and let's see what we've got and what needs work' and taking it from there. There are always going to be things in progress, things to learn, and gaps to fill in the dog's abilities. I think I've just kind of reached the stage where I like trials enough to toss the dogs in once they're safe and then work on what I SEE IN TRIAL as being the problem, versus what I see in my back yard or a class.


----------



## CptJack

Um, TLR version:

With Kylie I wanted her to be able to do all the obstacles first, and to be okay reading most crosses and things she would find on a novice course with a fair degree of proficiency (ETA: I should say though that all the practice courses she runs during club practices are elite, not novice, and she does well enough with most of those. Private lessons we're currently doing course dissection stuff, and those are novice courses). 

With Molly all I'm looking for is 'will stay in the ring and won't hurt herself'.


----------



## LoMD13

I think it really depends on the dog. With a low-stress dog and a low-stress partner, entering him sooner even if he's not conpletely ready won't hurt anything and it can be a really fun experience. 

If you think the dog might stress, I would take it much slower, maybe bring her to a couple trials not entered and wait until you are confident.


----------



## CptJack

I think basically it's down to the point that you can be sure to make it fun for your dog and not create negative associations. That might be because of the Dog's behavior or stress, or the owner's stress and reaction to it. Kylie could have used a low pressure, not gonna Q anyway, introduction to people in the ring with her (we did a show and go first, but still) and just me having a bit more practice with how things ran and a better feel for how Kylie responded in a trial. 

Molly? Meh. Molly's still got some reactivity stuff I worry about but I'm not sweating it too hard, anyway. Dog is basically fearless and I'm not expecting gold, or even good, just for her to have a positive experience and good time.

So, yeah, agree with LoMD.


----------



## Laurelin

I would say 1-2 years is average. Really depends on the dog and handler and such. I'm not sure when hank will trial. Maybe next winter? That would be 1 year of training. The competitive people I know wait until their dog can run masters courses. 

Congrats to everyone 

I don't know why but I'm so nervous about hanks new class with my old instructor! I just want him to not embarrass me. Lol


----------



## CptJack

(Yeah. Molly will have done classes for a year, Kylie had done them for... hrm, I guess 16 months?)

I get all nervous when I go to a new class with new people. I don't know why, either, but you'll come back giddy and loving it, I'm sure. I'm also sure everyone will love Hank. I mean, c'mon, he's HANK.


----------



## Laurelin

I keep thinking what if he's way behind? Or if the trainer hates him. Lol which is stupid as she's the one that wanted him if I decided not to keep him but she hasn't seen him run since February? 

I'm excited to be back in her classes though! It's so tough since I love both instructors.


----------



## CptJack

It took me months to teach Kylie how to do a reliable, decent, switch. It took me thirty seconds to teach Molly and has taken me a whole two days to basically proof it in all kinds of weird configurations.

As much as I would like to give all the credit to Molly being brilliant, I am 95% sure it has more to do with me knowing what the heck I'm doing now. Not, you know, entirely, but man having a better idea smooths out the learning curve for the dog.


----------



## LoMD13

Kadylady, that is GREAT! Zoey looks really happy in those videos. 

Here are our two regular runs! A lot of the mistakes were, I think, as MrsBoats warned me, probably due to the different contact equipment. She has never ran by an A-frame ever, it was like she didn't even see it there. We managed to recover in that run and still Q. I'm so excited that we're going fast enough that we can make mistakes in novice and still Q, she's never run that fast before in a trial I don't think.


----------



## taquitos

We just had our final class for Beginner's Agility. MEEKO DID GREAT!!! It's like something just "clicked" today it was really awesome. No more fear of the tunnels, took to the A frame and the dog walk like a champ. The instructor called him a "star pupil" for how far he has come in the short amount of time we've been working! His confidence was much better this time around 

Oh, and this entire time I thought FOOD was the best motivator for him... well it turns out in agility, my LAP is the best motivator lol!!


----------



## taquitos

LoMD13 said:


> Kadylady, that is GREAT! Zoey looks really happy in those videos.
> 
> Here are our two regular runs! A lot of the mistakes were, I think, as MrsBoats warned me, probably due to the different contact equipment. She has never ran by an A-frame ever, it was like she didn't even see it there. We managed to recover in that run and still Q. I'm so excited that we're going fast enough that we can make mistakes in novice and still Q, she's never run that fast before in a trial I don't think.


Looking good Lola!!


----------



## Laurelin

Yay Hank passed his test to get into the new class. Seems like a great group of fun, high energy dogs! I know two of the other handlers so that's cool too.

And we did a full height dog walk today for the first time. Nailed it and his contacts. In fact he was so happy to be doing his contacts he kept setting himself up on the 2o/2o for the next obstacles we did. It was basically just showing that he knew the obstacles and gaging where he was on various pieces of equipment.

I'm bummed my friend from high school is not in my class now though.


----------



## CptJack

The non-slated contact equipment throws a LOT of dogs. I can't get Kylie to touch the regular contact equipment at classes anymore - she recognizes it, but she bails on the upsides. Says a lot about how much the dogs notice, I think.

And Lola looks AWESOME!

(Also congrats Meeko!)


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Zoey looks great, Lola looks great, everyone looks great! Congrats to Meeko! I knew he would get more comfortable! 

Questions for the trialers out there: What crates do you use for trials? I'd like a more portable crate than the regular wire but still fairly sturdy.


----------



## CptJack

I have one each of the ones clean run sells, but neither one is sturdy at all. Fine for Kylie, but more a suggestion than containment. The best I've seen (and will probably get for Molly) are Guardian Gear and Orvis. Or, really, I may just get a wire crate and be done with it, because those collapse enough and I can cover and she can't get out.

Can you tell I trust her?


----------



## dogsule

So this morning I head out walking down the deck steps to take the dogs for a walk and clean the park. As I am stepping down my ankle rolls and pain shoots through my foot. I fall and land on my butt on the steps. First thing that comes to mind as my ankle is throbbing is...."No, I cannot break my ankle, then I cannot do agility!!" Thankfully after sitting there a bit as the pain subsides I start to move my ankle...no pain. I get up and put weight on it, no pain. Ok, we are good to go. Whew!! 

Had class last night and Belle just rocked it! She is listening so well for me to tell her what to do and watching for me to show her too and she was fast last night. On one of the runs we come off this jump and have to turn and come back a bit to go to the weaves. She was going so fast that by the time I said weave she was too far to get the entrance and she got this look of "oh shit" on her face as she tried to get to it. It was hilarious. I had to bring her back around cause they had the guard wires on the end of the weaves. Also went to a class last wednesday at the place we have the trials as. This is a more advanced class, most of the dogs being in excellent. When Belle and I started going (we are just drop in's and don't go all the time) she would have two courses in one so we could do the easier ones. She stopped doing that though and now Belle does the more difficult ones. Well last week when I went I was a little overwhelmed to say the least while walking the courses. (she always has two set up). I must say though Belle did very well, not perfect but the others there didn't either. I was really proud of my little girl!! She could have rocked it, I think, if her handler was more up to it too. LOL!!


----------



## pawsaddict

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate the responses, and sorry for my late response. Life got a little hectic. It's really cool to hear everyone's take on it. I know Nova and I will be waiting a while longer...at least until I can figure out my right from my left. I keep thinking that she would do so much better with a better handler. I actually felt kinda bad about it at our last class....but anyway. She is also still a little reactive, so I am nervous about putting her in that environment before she is ready.

So you guys think it's okay to bring a dog to a trial just to watch? I don't want to be rude by bringing the dog that doesn't want to be pet and may bark a bit, but I think that would be a really good way to help Nova get more accustomed to the stress and distractions...it would probably help me too.


----------



## pawsaddict

And congratulations to everyone one all of your successes! You all rock!


----------



## Laurelin

The only agility trial I've seen say not to bring unentered dogs to is nationals. Even then I've seen dogs that were puppies there so obviously it wasn't enforced. 

At most trials there's a lot of unentered dogs. I think it's a great thing to do with any dog that will compete in the future. I usually bring Hank to every trial here for a few hours even though he's not competing yet.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Questions for the trialers out there: What crates do you use for trials? I'd like a more portable crate than the regular wire but still fairly sturdy.


I have 2 of the Guardian Gear soft sided crates and I love them. I have a large and a medium, super easy to setup and transport. Luke and Zoey are perfect in them, but I will say they are both very respectful of them and have never tested them. I still cart along a wire crate for Skye. Our next trial is inside at a location we go to a lot and I can keep an eye on Skye pretty easy, so I may test her in one of the soft crates. She's been perfect at trials so far so we will see. My hope is to eventually use an ex-pen for Skye and Zoey to share but that depends a lot on Skye not being a pain in the butt to Zoey.


----------



## Laurelin

One caveat being obviously don't bring a dog thy is dangerous to a trial and don't let them bother people getting ready run, keep t a respectful distance of other dogs, leashed, etc


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, there are always unentered dogs. The only time I've seen a problem in my (limited) experience was when a spectator dog broke free, ran into the ring and generally started chasing the dog that was on the course. Then came out and ran around everywhere, just doing zoomies.

Don't hang out with people queueing up at the gate, and don't sweat it. If reactive dogs couldn't be at agility trials, there wouldn't be many dogs at agility trials. Ours tend to very much have a 'don't interact with dogs that aren't yours' vibe going on, but I don't know if that's universal.


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> One caveat being obviously don't bring a dog thy is dangerous to a trial and don't let them bother people getting ready run, keep t a respectful distance of other dogs, leashed, etc


Thanks, Laurelin! Ya, I think we would just sit in a corner far away from most of the commotion at first, and she would definitely be on leash. 

I wouldn't call Nova dangerous....but maybe someone else would? She just doesn't like strangers touching her or staring right at her. She will bark at people who do, but she is easily redirected and calms pretty fast once the person leaves....


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Thanks, Laurelin! Ya, I think we would just sit in a corner far away from most of the commotion at first, and she would definitely be on leash.
> 
> I wouldn't call Nova dangerous....but maybe someone else would? She just doesn't like strangers touching her or staring right at her. She will bark at people who do, but she is easily redirected and calms pretty fast once the person leaves....


Most agility people are dog people and get that kind of thing. I think we have more people in our club with some sort of 'problem' dog than people who have totally solid dogs. I mean lots of people have one of each or one and three or whatever, but almost EVERYONE has SOME dog that is hands off with people or has some kind of issue with other dogs. It just isn't a big deal. 

Dangerous would be, but "Loud?" No. Lots and lots of 'just ignore the dog' instructions being passed around.

Also corners shouldn't be much of an issue, depending on set up. Usually the only congestion I see is right outside the ring/at the gate. We only have ONE indoor trial a year around here, though, and I haven't been to that one, yet.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and also:



> I keep thinking that she would do so much better with a better handler


I think pretty much everyone thinks this, including experienced people. The more experienced you are, the better handler you are, and every successive dog is going to benefit from having a more experienced handler. I've gone to TWO trials and have been in agility for a grand total of about 2 years, but I can even see it with Molly. Makes me feel a little bad with Kylie, but that's just the way it goes. You have the dog you have, and your dog has the handler they have. Nothing to feel bad about. 

I will also say, though, that while I definitely think you should wait until you're ready to compete, I found I had kind of plateaued with classes and practices - not necessarily good, but I'd kind of struggled through as far as I could work out. Once I got into a couple of trails, I was much better able to figure out how things fit together, and start working on smoothing out some things I'd ALWAYS had trouble with but didn't really... grasp well enough to work on effectively on my own. 

Private lessons have also been a *god send* for me. Like, yeah, I can do the classes and get something out of them but I learn more in a about an hour of private instruction than I feel like I learned in a whole 7 week group class. I was initially scared to death to do them, but they are so, so good for me. I am REALLY hoping that I can start getting Molly into at least a few at some point this summer (after beginner ends). Just having someone to problem solve with, who is right there looking at me, and knows me and my dogs made all the difference in the world.


----------



## Laurelin

By dangerous I just mean if you have a big strong dog that tries to eat people and you can't control then they probably shouldn't be there. I mean just be respectful. Most people who do agility know to watch their dog and keep it out of other people's faces and not to let your dog stand ringside and be super loud and distracting for the running dogs. That kind of thing.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Most agility people are dog people and get that kind of thing. I think we have more people in our club with some sort of 'problem' dog than people who have totally solid dogs. I mean lots of people have one of each or one and three or whatever, but almost EVERYONE has SOME dog that is hands off with people or has some kind of issue with other dogs. It just isn't a big deal.
> 
> Dangerous would be, but "Loud?" No. Lots and lots of 'just ignore the dog' instructions being passed around.
> 
> Also corners shouldn't be much of an issue, depending on set up. Usually the only congestion I see is right outside the ring/at the gate. We only have ONE indoor trial a year around here, though, and I haven't been to that one, yet.


Thanks! That's comforting. I think we'll go check one out and see how she does. Maybe I'll get a better indication of when we *might* be able to start trialling by doing that too (instead of just watching all the elite teams on youtube, haha).


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Thanks! That's comforting. I think we'll go check one out and see how she does. Maybe I'll get a better indication of when we *might* be able to start trialling by doing that too (instead of just watching all the elite teams on youtube, haha).


Yeah, I admittedly get a great deal of... not joy, but reassurance watching the elite teams run in real life and seeing them do the same bone-headed things Kylie and I do. I mean less often and at greater distances, but- 

Yeah.

And seeing where the other novice teams are will help too.


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> By dangerous I just mean if you have a big strong dog that tries to eat people and you can't control then they probably shouldn't be there. I mean just be respectful. Most people who do agility know to watch their dog and keep it out of other people's faces and not to let your dog stand ringside and be super loud and distracting for the running dogs. That kind of thing.


Gotcha. No...we will definitely be staying out of everyone's way. I'm not super social, either...so I think we will both be more at ease just lurking in the corner.



CptJack said:


> Oh and also:
> 
> 
> 
> I think pretty much everyone thinks this, including experienced people. The more experienced you are, the better handler you are, and every successive dog is going to benefit from having a more experienced handler. I've gone to TWO trials and have been in agility for a grand total of about 2 years, but I can even see it with Molly. Makes me feel a little bad with Kylie, but that's just the way it goes. You have the dog you have, and your dog has the handler they have. Nothing to feel bad about.
> 
> I will also say, though, that while I definitely think you should wait until you're ready to compete, I found I had kind of plateaued with classes and practices - not necessarily good, but I'd kind of struggled through as far as I could work out. Once I got into a couple of trails, I was much better able to figure out how things fit together, and start working on smoothing out some things I'd ALWAYS had trouble with but didn't really... grasp well enough to work on effectively on my own.
> 
> Private lessons have also been a *god send* for me. Like, yeah, I can do the classes and get something out of them but I learn more in a about an hour of private instruction than I feel like I learned in a whole 7 week group class. I was initially scared to death to do them, but they are so, so good for me. I am REALLY hoping that I can start getting Molly into at least a few at some point this summer (after beginner ends). Just having someone to problem solve with, who is right there looking at me, and knows me and my dogs made all the difference in the world.


True. It just dawned on me last class that my dog is better at this than me right now. Made me a little sad for her. She's so great. I think any other more experienced handler would love to work with her and could do so much with her. I guess I also feel like I totally lucked out with having her to work with, but you're right. It's just the way it works. We work with who we have.

Private lessons sound so nice! I totally can't afford them at the moment, but I'm going to jump on that as soon as I can! 



CptJack said:


> Yeah, I admittedly get a great deal of... not joy, but reassurance watching the elite teams run in real life and seeing them do the same bone-headed things Kylie and I do. I mean less often and at greater distances, but-
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> And seeing where the other novice teams are will help too.


Yeah, I think watching other novice teams will help me kind of judge exactly where we are at. I really don't think we are ready to compete yet....maybe in a year or so. We'll see. It would still be nice to get a feel for everything.


----------



## CptJack

I'm really am fortunate with private lesson pricing. Group classes are about 11/week, for an hour shared with about 9 other teams. Privates are 15/week, for 30 minutes all to myself. Her prices will probably go up soonish, but I think she's only raising to 20/private, which isn't bad at all. 

But. Generally this stuff has been not nearly as expensive as I thought it was going to be initially. At least until I add things up going back to far, and then I kind of make faces.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I'm really am fortunate with private lesson pricing. Group classes are about 11/week, for an hour shared with about 9 other teams. Privates are 15/week, for 30 minutes all to myself. Her prices will probably go up soonish, but I think she's only raising to 20/private, which isn't bad at all.
> 
> But. Generally this stuff has been not nearly as expensive as I thought it was going to be initially. At least until I add things up going back to far, and then I kind of make faces.


Those prices are really good! After our current handling class is over, we are going to start taking classes at a local club. (Just like Laurelin, I am SUPER nervous about that. I'm worried we will be way out of our league.) It's around $30/group class. No private lessons for us right now, that's for sure.


----------



## Laurelin

Just YouTube first trials. Lol


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> Just YouTube first trials. Lol


Lol! Gotta love Guinness. That's totally going to be Nova and I someday.


----------



## Laurelin

Hahaha I just had to go watch that one. That's hilarious


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> Hahaha I just had to go watch that one. That's hilarious


I love the song she picked. Fits the situation perfectly. And good on her for finishing all those runs once Guinness was ready.


----------



## CptJack

Class tonight was okay. There was a period of class where the teeter and tire were introduced that I, by and large, sat out (I'm pretty committed to never doing AKC with Molly so it's just a non-issue). Molly took her turns, but mostly ate cheese during those bits.

MUCH better contacts, without the butt plopping off stuff. Didn't do as well as usual on the jump portion, but I know what she's capable of there and am not all that worried. Did a short sequence with a cross! That she *rocked*, if I do say so myself! It was just four obstacles (barrel, tunnel, a-frame, hoop) but given that just a couple/few months ago my big goal was being able to let her RECALL off leash? Yeah, I'm pretty happy. Would have been if all she'd done was stay with me, and she stayed with me AND listened to me AND got her contact. 

She's come a long, long way. 

And someone in class today realized she was a year old and kind of raised her eyebrows at me and said something about letting a puppy be a puppy, but I'm not really expecting much from Molly, at least I don't think I am. I want her out there and playing and getting comfortable and learning to stay with me in the face of distractions WAY more than I care about her nailing contacts and stuff right now. If I am actually pushing too hard... I hope someone smacks me upside the head, soundly.

...This week, though, we're going to mostly be playing rear-end awareness games. Molly seems to have none.


----------



## CptJack

Holy. Crap. You guys! Kylie is *successfully finding the right entrance to the weaves now*. I think being able to say 'wrong side' and have her switch was the bridge we needed to get her to real understanding - or more likely a sign she was starting to get it. On side, off side, coming out of short sequences. We're now BETTER than we were before I broke us. 

I could cry.

Am also sort of cross-training them both, now. Started Molly on weaves, have backed up to teach Kylie a clearer stopped contact. It's FUN.


----------



## parus

So I need kind of a reality check. The dog and I both are enjoying agility (not awesome at it, but enjoy it), but I have this nagging worry that the a-frame and dog walk just aren't really safe for a dog his size (120 lbs), age when starting this (6) and gracefulness (mack truck). Am I being overprotective, or is this a legit concern?


----------



## CptJack

Unless he is moving fast and hitting contacts hard, I'd worry a lot more about jumps a lot more than the contact obstacles. If he IS moving super fast and hitting hard/coming down on his front end hard, maybe teach an 'easy' command to slow him up before you get there. As it stands, he shouldn't have too much trouble with it; the angle's not that steep, he doesn't need to hold there long and he SHOULD be bringing some of his weight to his rear to balance it, instead of basically standing on his head. 

That said, your dog - if it worries you, say so and skip those exercises. I regularly skip out of things in class. That shouldn't be an issue with your instructor. There are still things you can do with him in the right venues, and if you're not competing, well, it matters even less. Talking to your vet is also probably a good idea, either way. Maybe do x-rays if you REALLY want to set your mind at ease or just know. 

Also please note: I do not do agility with Thud. He has weak pasterns and frankly he falls off things wider than the dog walk.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Holy. Crap. You guys! Kylie is *successfully finding the right entrance to the weaves now*. I think being able to say 'wrong side' and have her switch was the bridge we needed to get her to real understanding - or more likely a sign she was starting to get it. On side, off side, coming out of short sequences. We're now BETTER than we were before I broke us.
> 
> I could cry.
> 
> Am also sort of cross-training them both, now. Started Molly on weaves, have backed up to teach Kylie a clearer stopped contact. It's FUN.


Yay, Kylie!!! Congratulations!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Susie, my Bernese cross, was my first dog to do Agility with. She is heavily built and did hurt her shoulder when the instructor insisted she do a 2o2o on the A-frame and she stopped too suddenly. I knew nothing about Agility when I started with her or I probably would never have done it with her to the point of competing. Should have just done it for fun and she probably would have been alright.


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Yay, Kylie!!! Congratulations!


I am having so much fun training at home right now. A LITTLE bit more equipment (a jury-rigged contact trainer thing and some hoops) has really given me more flexibility to change things around. And, much as I grumbled about hoops, having several at home to work on handling in a low impact way has been huge. 

I'd like it to cool off already, though.


----------



## Laurelin

parus said:


> So I need kind of a reality check. The dog and I both are enjoying agility (not awesome at it, but enjoy it), but I have this nagging worry that the a-frame and dog walk just aren't really safe for a dog his size (120 lbs), age when starting this (6) and gracefulness (mack truck). Am I being overprotective, or is this a legit concern?


Is he still 6? In most venues after 7 years you can drop him down a height again as a veteran. I would definitely do preferred or performance with a giant dog vs normal jump heights. But an older dog I'd do veterans. 

There's some giant dogs that run here. A few Danes and bull mastiffs mainly. I think doing a lower height and conditioning is very important. MsBoats may have some other suggestions since her boys are larger.


----------



## pawsaddict

What would you do?

Nova and I are taking classes right now at a place I really like. The instructor is awesome. The people are awesome. Very happy that we are taking this class. It is geared more towards people who want to just get out and have fun with their dogs. We have the option of continuing to take classes at this place until we are "competition ready". I assume, if we did that, we would then move on to a club or something and go from there?

OR

We have the option to join a pretty competitive club right now. The class we would take there is for people who are NOT competition ready, though. The instructors compete around the world...so they are pretty serious...much more serious than our current instructor/class.

I do want to trial with Nova some day, if she is okay with it. But having fun is my main priority. I'm definitely not "world's competition" serious.

I was pretty set on taking the more serious class route a few weeks ago, but now I am having crazy cold feet. I worry that we are going to be WAY out of our league. I'm worried that we will basically not fit in at all and just embarrass ourselves (and spend a lot more $ doing it).

So that being said, WWYD? Would you go for it? Or stay put and keep learning at a more relaxed place?


----------



## CptJack

I'd move to the other class/club, to be honest with you. 

I would hate to lose my friends and people I know, and fun is certainly my priority, but in my experience when in classes geared toward 'fun', you have a lot of fun and may or may not ever hit competition readiness. Admittedly I have only ever worked with one club, but frankly what I learn while WITH THE CLUB and out of those early classes is night and day. Some of it's getting the foundations down, but a lot of it is just where the focus is and the people who choose to take the class (the approach is just different when it's 'for fun' versus 'I want to compete'). I do not have a single bit less fun in the competitive group, but I learn roughly 20X more, because it's less chaotic, and more focused.

That said, while this club has multiple members who have had multiple dogs placing and winning at *Nationals* in a couple of venues (ie: Not World's or International events, but some do things not NADAC), they are very warm, welcoming, low pressure and low stress. No one is judgy pants, no one is condescending, everyone is encouraging. If it was a high pressure environment for me or my dog, if the people stopped being AWESOME, if it sucked the fun out, I would not be there. People going to World's and super-duper serious would be both out of my league and out of any league I want to be in. 

So, um. Meet the people, ask about observing a single class, maybe, and take it from there.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Can you split the difference? Can you join the competition group and then see if you can do drop ins with your friends? Most less competitive groups have room accommodate drop ins. Worth asking!

If you want to compete, I agree with CptJack. The devil's in the details. In pet classes, there are often glaring foundation holes that never get plugged. It's fine if you just want to play on equipment, but if you think you're going to try for a ribbon, I would stick with the people who are out there trialing.


----------



## CptJack

Actually, a thought/question occurred to me while I was doing something else:

Is the instructor of your class now someone who competes? You said you assumed you could stay there until you were competition ready, but - how is that judged, and if you stayed there until then, what happens? Another class/group with the same instructor, or the other club, or something else entirely?

That does somewhat influence my opinion. I still think you want classes geared toward competition, and I'm willing to bet they aren't as scary as you think, but I'm not as clear as I initially thought I was about what kind of class you're in NOW?


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I'd move to the other class/club, to be honest with you.
> 
> I would hate to lose my friends and people I know, and fun is certainly my priority, but in my experience when in classes geared toward 'fun', you have a lot of fun and may or may not ever hit competition readiness. Admittedly I have only ever worked with one club, but frankly what I learn while WITH THE CLUB and out of those early classes is night and day. Some of it's getting the foundations down, but a lot of it is just where the focus is and the people who choose to take the class (the approach is just different when it's 'for fun' versus 'I want to compete'). I do not have a single bit less fun in the competitive group, but I learn roughly 20X more, because it's less chaotic, and more focused.*This resonates with me. The class we are currently in is at our local humane society. I'm taking it with a friend and her dog. In this class, there are dogs that still need to be very heavily coached through everything. Now, I am definitely no super duper agility star, and we all know I'm not super coordinated, but Nova handles all equipment (except the teeter) really well and at a distance and with some good speed. She is way better than me, admittedly. There is a lot of waiting for some dogs to finish going through a tunnel and people walking around doing whatever with their dog, not even listening to instructor, in the class. It does feel chaotic *
> 
> That said, while this club has multiple members who have had multiple dogs placing and winning at *Nationals* in a couple of venues (ie: Not World's or International events, but some do things not NADAC), they are very warm, welcoming, low pressure and low stress. No one is judgy pants, no one is condescending, everyone is encouraging. * I have met one of the instructors. She is really nice, but you can tell she is serious when it comes to agility. *
> 
> If it was a high pressure environment for me or my dog, if the people stopped being AWESOME, if it sucked the fun out, I would not be there. People going to World's and super-duper serious would be both out of my league and out of any league I want to be in.
> 
> So, um. Meet the people, ask about observing a single class, maybe, and take it from there. * That's a good idea. I'm going to have to ask about doing that *





CptJack said:


> Actually, a thought/question occurred to me while I was doing something else:
> 
> Is the instructor of your class now someone who competes? You said you assumed you could stay there until you were competition ready, but - how is that judged, and if you stayed there until then, what happens? Another class/group with the same instructor, or the other club, or something else entirely? * The instructor is very nice and deals with Nova really well. She does compete. She ran in Regionals a couple weeks ago...no idea where she placed, though. They have classes there that increase in difficulty to gear you towards competing. You can take each class as many times as you want. So if I stayed there, I would end up doing a few more classes with that instructor. And then...I don't really know where I would go from there if I wanted to compete. They don't have a team or anything for people who take the classes, as far as I am aware. So I assume after all that, we would be free agents and have to find a club somewhere. As for how they judge if you are competition ready, I have no idea. *
> 
> That does somewhat influence my opinion. I still think you want classes geared toward competition, and I'm willing to bet they aren't as scary as you think, but I'm not as clear as I initially thought I was about what kind of class you're in NOW?





trainingjunkie said:


> Can you split the difference? Can you join the competition group and then see if you can do drop ins with your friends? Most less competitive groups have room accommodate drop ins. Worth asking! *I wish that was an option, but you have to register for an entire 6-weeks class. They don't have any drop-ins at all there.*
> 
> If you want to compete, I agree with CptJack. The devil's in the details. In pet classes, there are often glaring foundation holes that never get plugged. It's fine if you just want to play on equipment, but if you think you're going to try for a ribbon, I would stick with the people who are out there trialing.


My comments are bolded.


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, since your instructor now does compete at a decent level, I would go talk to her directly. Ask her where she trains, ask her who teaches her, ask her what club she is with (if she is with one) and ask for more information from her in general. Be upfront about your concerns, about the fact that you would like to compete, and if she has other students competing and how that path goes. Ask if there are practices, ask if anyone does ring rentals, ask what the next steps ARE, and how you go from classes to competition if you stay with her. 

I think you may still want the competitive group and her answer may be to switch to the other group, but I also think there may be options between 'humane society fun class' and 'go to world's' super competitive, that you just aren't aware of because you aren't far enough into the loop. I say that bit, because my instructor DOES foundations/beginner with mostly pet people out of a dog daycare. Those classes can be chaotic, but she will gear you toward what's appropriate if she KNOWS you want to compete and once she trusts that you're serious and/or you talk to her other stuff opens up. They also get much less chaotic as people drop and difficulty increases. You just have to speak up and TELL HER, you know? 

(And her foundations and safety stuff are always good, they just get built on more as people drop out and you get further into the group. They're not CLIQUEY? It's just that for every 10 people in the foundations/beginner classes, well. I've taken four foundations classes all the way through, and another one half-way. Of those 50 students, I know two besides me competing now and BOTH OF THEM were already competing with other dogs when I started, you know? The drop out rate with agility before competition is just HUGE.)


----------



## Laurelin

How 'not competitive' is the 'not competitive' group? I think that would be my main question.


----------



## Laurelin

So I've gone to a few agility places over the years... and several trainers. All of my trainers 'have competed/are competing'. Some are bad and some are good. I'd watch the dogs and handlers and see what the methods are about. 

I would definitely go to a trainer whose goals align with yours. If you want to compete and they don't or haven't very long that's probably not going to be a good fit.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Honestly, since your instructor now does compete at a decent level, I would go talk to her directly. Ask her where she trains, ask her who teaches her, ask her what club she is with (if she is with one) and ask for more information from her in general. Be upfront about your concerns, about the fact that you would like to compete, and if she has other students competing and how that path goes. Ask if there are practices, ask if anyone does ring rentals, ask what the next steps ARE, and how you go from classes to competition if you stay with her.
> 
> I think you may still want the competitive group and her answer may be to switch to the other group, but I also think there may be options between 'humane society fun class' and 'go to world's' super competitive, that you just aren't aware of because you aren't far enough into the loop. I say that bit, because my instructor DOES foundations/beginner with mostly pet people out of a dog daycare. Those classes can be chaotic, but she will gear you toward what's appropriate if she KNOWS you want to compete and once she trusts that you're serious and/or you talk to her other stuff opens up. They also get much less chaotic as people drop and difficulty increases. You just have to speak up and TELL HER, you know?
> 
> (And her foundations and safety stuff are always good, they just get built on more as people drop out and you get further into the group. They're not CLIQUEY? It's just that for every 10 people in the foundations/beginner classes, well. I've taken four foundations classes all the way through, and another one half-way. Of those 50 students, I know two besides me competing now and BOTH OF THEM were already competing with other dogs when I started, you know? The drop out rate with agility before competition is just HUGE.)


That's a brilliant idea. I don't know why, but it's never registered to me that she probably does agility outside of the humane society. I'm definitely going to talk to her about that tomorrow. And that makes sense, how things probably will get a little more serious at the humane society as we continue to advance.


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> How 'not competitive' is the 'not competitive' group? I think that would be my main question.


On a scale of 1-10 in this particular class, it's probably a ...3? Not because of the instructor, but because of the goals of most of the students enrolled. There is one other person there that wants to compete one day, as far as I know (my friend).


----------



## CptJack

Good news, bad news:

Good news: Kylie is DEFINITELY fast enough to make time in NADAC if I can get my crap together. She's also got decent off side weaves and KEPT THEM in practice. Not as fast as at home, but decent.

Bad news: I have no idea what was wrong with me today, but I forgot part of the course after I walked it, tried to 'switch' Kylie in open air (ie: not anywhere near the obstacle she should switch at and resulted in some real confusion), and couldn't tell my left from right at several points, one of which resulted in me sending her through the weaves backwards - which I can honestly say I've never done (though I once came close to)

Has anyone seen my brain? Because it sure as heck isn't in my head today.

I have no idea how that woman hasn't strangled me yet.


----------



## pawsaddict

Class is cancelled today  Until now, I have never found something that I enjoy doing so much so that a cancelled class would make me sad. I guess that's a good thing?


----------



## LoMD13

Kylie can definitely do it! Excited to see how she does at her next trial. I was surprised we easily made time actually, especially with fixing a few mistakes. We've basically had to be perfect in USDAA to make time. She was running much faster than usual, but she's not a fast dog by any means. 

We DO have some lingering contact issues though from the trial. She refused the A-frame for the first time ever in the trial, which makes sense because it's the first time she's seen a non slatted all black one. But then she refused the regular old A-frame in class this week too. She did get over it though once I babysat it at a bit. Hoping that's behind us now and she'll be fine the next time!


----------



## CptJack

I sell Kylie short a lot, and it's really not fair to her. Fact of the matter is, the regular courses she ran, she was 15-20 seconds UNDER SCT. That's for novice and regular, granted, but that's a heck of good deal of cushion. The Tunnelers stuff she was just, just barely over and I mean by a few hundredths of a second. I was watching her today before I got all confused and forgot where I was going and she is REALLY running and making good time. I'm not saying she's, you know, the fastest BC to ever agility or anything, but she's not slow. 

*I* slow her down, with handling errors and with timing issues, and with general lack of confidence. Another dog would just run off and leave me. Kylie doesn't. Kylie comes in to me and waits for me to figure my crap out. And I mean she quite literally comes back to me and waits on me, LOL. I just really, really need to work on my handling and timing - and get less flustered while I'm out there, and otherwise keep a clear head. 

Also yeah. NADAC is a little strange. I'm hoping that's behind you now, too!


----------



## LoMD13

Kylie and Lola sound very, very similar in terms of speed! Wish you guys were nearby, we don't have anybody to compete with in our height class. We were about 10 seconds under SCT, but we easily wasted 5-10 seconds fussing around with the A-frame and hoops.


----------



## CptJack

I really wish we were nearby too! I'd LOVE to go to some trials with you guys - or a lot of the DF members, really. Maybe I'll do some traveling in a year or so. It can be a DF agility tour!


----------



## dogsule

pawsaddict said:


> Class is cancelled today  Until now, I have never found something that I enjoy doing so much so that a cancelled class would make me sad. I guess that's a good thing?


This happens to me also. Our class occasionally gets cancelled and I always am disappointed. We have Monday classes too so it is something to look forward to on a Monday. LOL!


----------



## Laurelin

12 weave poles.  Nailed multiple times. Both hands. Nailed them with me moving and also with me stationary and running the opposite direction even. First time seeing more than 8.

Full size teeter. Nailed multiple times. No fear and figuring out his tipping point.

My trainer said today that Hank is 'an absolute dynamite dog'. 

God he is so GOOD. Like in every way. I mean he just listens. He held his stay the whole time me and the trainer were talking. Didn't ever lose focus. Did his wraps tightly. Chilled in his crate. Was friendly and cuddly and is so good around the other dogs. Ramps up right when I need him to. Is calm the rest of the time. I love it. Love it love it.

I feel like Hank is a weird prodigy of some sort.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Enjoy him! Well-deserved! I hope you have a total blast with him!


----------



## Laurelin

trainingjunkie said:


> Enjoy him! Well-deserved! I hope you have a total blast with him!


I already am having SO much fun! It just keeps getting better and better!

Here he is tonight first time on 12 poles.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> 12 weave poles. Nailed multiple times. Both hands. Nailed them with me moving and also with me stationary and running the opposite direction even. First time seeing more than 8.
> 
> Full size teeter. Nailed multiple times. No fear and figuring out his tipping point.
> 
> My trainer said today that Hank is 'an absolute dynamite dog'.
> 
> God he is so GOOD. Like in every way. I mean he just listens. He held his stay the whole time me and the trainer were talking. Didn't ever lose focus. Did his wraps tightly. Chilled in his crate. Was friendly and cuddly and is so good around the other dogs. Ramps up right when I need him to. Is calm the rest of the time. I love it. Love it love it.
> 
> I feel like Hank is a weird prodigy of some sort.


Sounds awesome!! Will love to see him at his first trial!!


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> I already am having SO much fun! It just keeps getting better and better!
> 
> Here he is tonight first time on 12 poles.


Awesome!! Great job!


----------



## Laurelin

It's dawning on me that we've got every piece of the puzzle now! All obstacles and his performance is really good on each. Now it's just time to put it all together. I think I may see about some private lessons once my trainer is back on her feet (having surgery so we're going to be taking a break after next week)


----------



## CptJack

Man, I was coming to say that Molly has six in a straight line now, but forget that. GO HANK!


----------



## kadylady

Go Hank! He looks really great!! And yay Molly! 6 straight is a big step for the baby dog!

We did some weaving last night too. Goal is to start adding/proofing distance, crosses before, during and after she weaves, and also her figuring out the entries coming in with speed. That's when we are most likely to get a refusal and her blowing by is when she's coming in fast and has to collect. Super good stuff last night.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Go Hank! He looks really great!! And yay Molly! 6 straight is a big step for the baby dog!
> 
> We did some weaving last night too. Goal is to start adding/proofing distance, crosses before, during and after she weaves, and also her figuring out the entries coming in with speed. That's when we are most likely to get a refusal and her blowing by is when she's coming in fast and has to collect. Super good stuff last night.


Awesome.....I have to get 12 weaves for outside. I have six but haven't set them up. Want to get a tunnel too! Need some $$ though....


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> Awesome.....I have to get 12 weaves for outside. I have six but haven't set them up. Want to get a tunnel too! Need some $$ though....


I just bought these new weaves from a local person that makes them. The bases fold down so they are easy to store and travel with. Last night was the first time we used them and I loved them! So much easier than my stick in the ground ones, but those were cheap and perfect for what I needed when we started.


----------



## CptJack

It's weave season at DF ;-) And I am actually REALLY proud of Molly, all joking aside. She wants to go full tilt at everything. She had to learn a little self-control and body awareness and deliberation to get those weaves together. She's still not 200% consistent (skips the last pole once in a while) and she does still need to work on what Kylie is re: Collection and exits, but I have been working weaves with Kylie for a YEAR, as opposed to Molly's month. All things considered.... Yeah. I'm proud.

I use the heck out of my stick in the ground ones. I like the 2x2 sets because they can be moved around and, obviously, it's nice to be able to take them apart to teach, but I still use the stick in the ground ones in the yard quite a bit. It's conveniently located and they were REALLY cheap. The equipment I'm most in need of now honestly are jumps. I'm never going to have room for full size contact equipment, but my tire/board thing works well enough for that for me. That plus a couple of tunnels (and I have cheap ones), buckets, hoops, and weaves gives me most of what I need for general handling, contacts, and weaves. I just really want a few more jumps because Molly is still sometimes CRAZY sloppy jumping. 

ETA: I am discovering, though, that if I up the jump height she does better. May have to rethink and actually jump her at 20" :/


----------



## dogsule

So two things to add about Belle. 

First...she earned her AKC Novice Jumpers title on Saturday! Woohoo!! We had a very disappointing run in Standard but thankfully she pulled it together in Jumpers. Below is a link to her jumpers run. In the third to the last jump I was in the wrong spot, wanted to send her over and come down the other side of the other jumps but she was going to fast for me to get there and it worked how we did it anyway. She was going 4.44 yds per second. Course time was 37 and she did it in 23.2, scored a perfect 100! 

Photobucket link to her jumpers run....


and/or the flickr link....
https://flic.kr/p/viSVJz

Belle and her new title ribbon...
20150627_173540a by rzyg, on Flickr

Now for the second part. For the second trial in a row (after having never done it before at trials or in class) Belle has pooped in the ring. I was so disappointed this time (as she did it at the last trial for the first time) I just wanted to quit and not do this anymore. Last time she had an awesome standard run and then pooped after the second jump in Jumpers. This time she did it on the standard run and had an awesome jumpers run. It wasn't like she really, really had to go....all it was both times was a small turd. Seriously...you couldn't wait?? She gave me no signals before hand that she had to poop. Not until we got into the ring and she acted weird right off the bat both times, not acting like she had to go but acting like she just didn't want to run. I have no clue what is up with this I walk her beforehand and she does nothing. I am so hoping it is short lived and this was the last time she does it. The most disappointing this was both times I really wanted to run the course, it seemed challenging and both times she did it shortly after we started doing only a few obstacles so we never even got a chance. Any advice/input on this???


----------



## kadylady

Congrats on the Jumpers title dogsule!! That was a really nice run!

Guys look!! Look at this happy dog!! Makes my heart sing!! <3 <3 <3


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Congrats on the Jumpers title dogsule!! That was a really nice run!
> 
> Guys look!! Look at this happy dog!! Makes my heart sing!! <3 <3 <3


Thanks! Love that shot!!


----------



## pawsaddict

kadylady said:


> Congrats on the Jumpers title dogsule!! That was a really nice run!
> 
> Guys look!! Look at this happy dog!! Makes my heart sing!! <3 <3 <3


Beautiful picture, kadylady! And congrats, dogsule!

Well, we are going to go with the more serious club. I spoke with one of the women there (very nice!) and after doing that, I feel a lot better about it. They won't be putting us in a class that is way above our heads. They understand that Nova is soft and they know how to work with that. We still have to talk a bit more, to determine what class will be best for us, but overall, I think it will be a good fit.


----------



## Laurelin

So this is totally random but agility nerds might appreciate. I was looking at Bad Dog Agility's top 10 power rankings by breed for 2014.

Top 8" regular papillon last year- Masher:* 6.46* yps JWW 5.12 yps STD

Holy moly! That should put to rest if small/toy dogs can be fast agility dogs.

For comparison 
Top 16" border collie 'Smart'- 6.44 yps JWW 5.18 yps STD

Top 20" border collie 'Viper'- 6.68 yps JWW 5.42 yps STD

Top 24" BC 6.31 yps JWW 5.37 yps STD

Top 26" BC 'Tonic' 6.64 yps JWW 5.17 yps STD

Overall some neat stats and rankings and yps info on all the top dogs for their breeds. They also do a power 60 for top dogs in all heights.

http://baddogagility.com/category/breedpower10/


----------



## Laurelin

Other breeds fastest JWW yps (just random ones)

Fastest sheltie - 6.32 yps JWW 
Fastest MAS- 16" regular 6.33 yps JWW
Fastest malinois 20"- 6.26 yps JWW
Fastest tervuren 24"- 6.51 yps JWW
groendael- 6.38
Fastest ACD 16"- 6.46 yps JWW
Fastest mix breed (the dog is a borderstaffy)- 6.22 yps
Fastest Aussie - 6.31 yps
Parson Russell- 6.20
Whippet- 6.03
GSD- 6.08
pyrshep- 6.14
Golden Retriever- 6.34
Lab- 6.18
Poodle- 6.36
Dobe- 6.00 yps

Fastest time I've seen so far is Tory Self's Rev (BC) at 6.81 yps JWW

EDIT: Nope, 2015 Q1 Schemer (BC) *7.06 *yps O_O and another BC (shahka?) at* 7.07* yps

Neat seeing how many breeds can hit those really fast times!


----------



## CptJack

Class tonight was actually really good. she's finally figured out how to collect herself on the downside of obstacles to stick the contacts without having to spin off, and has gotten really reliable about it. She's also got her jumping sorted. The issue for this week is collecting enough to get the UP of the dogwalk. Basically 'collection' is going to be the name of the game with her for a while. 

She's wicked fast and wicked fun and wicked enthusiastic and confident and handles like a DREAM with directions and distance- just need to bring some control to the party... as in self-control and body awareness. Kylie, being short and short striding, never really had to adjust her stride at all. Molly is twice her height and WAY faster, so working out how to help her with that is interesting.


----------



## CptJack

Molly is going to have her first private lesson Saturday morning! Kylie's having one too, but first Molly private! No clue what we're doing, but I'm so, so excited.

That picture is great, Kady. Congrats dogsrule and pawsaddict I can not wait to hear about the new place!


----------



## dogsule

Went to a drop in class tonight, it is a more advanced class. Have been there a few times and I learn so much. Much harder runs that at our normal classes. We had a hard weave entrance tonight and Belle nailed it every time! Woohoo! She is getting so much better too at me sending her over a jump or wrapping around....now if I could always be in the right place/doing the right thing and not forget the course she would be doing awesome!! LOL!


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Molly is going to have her first private lesson Saturday morning! Kylie's having one too, but first Molly private! No clue what we're doing, but I'm so, so excited.
> 
> That picture is great, Kady. Congrats dogsrule and pawsaddict I can not wait to hear about the new place!


I'm so excited for you and Molly! I bet she'll rock it!

And thanks! I'm pretty pumped for the new set of classes to start with the new place (end of the month). I think it'll be a good move for us.


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> I'm so excited for you and Molly! I bet she'll rock it!
> 
> And thanks! I'm pretty pumped for the new set of classes to start with the new place (end of the month). I think it'll be a good move for us.



I have NO IDEA what to expect of a private lesson this early on, but I'm eager to find out. Also interested to see if she'll do a danged thing out there, surrounded by horses. They aren't CLOSE to the agility area, but it's there, so I guess we'll have to see. 

I'm so glad you're looking forward to it and feeling more confident. I wasn't kidding about wanting to hear about it, though!


----------



## dogsule

Just curious about something. When you go to trials do you go all three days, two days or just one? All of our trials run Fri/Sat/Sun and I have always done just one day (except one where I did two). Trials here are once or twice a month and I couldn't imagine doing three days that often but most of these people do. I would love to do two days though but not all the time. Of course if we ever get out of Open and working on a MACH I suppose I would want to be able to do it as many days as possible but I could never do Fridays. That is way in the future though since we are just starting open. Just curious how often you all go.....


----------



## CptJack

Local trials I sign up for both days - Friday isn't an option for us because of work and timing. For the trial 2ish hours out coming up I'm only signing up for one day, because of the drive and because I still have things I need to do that weekend. However, Kylie's only really good for about 3, MAAAAYBE 4 runs in a day (out of 6 possible) and mostly we do 2-3, and we only have 5-6 local trials in a year. And they're spread out so they're Sept, October, Jan, March, and April. When there's a 6th it's May. So we have a big gap in there (like 4-5 months for one), as well as some runs where there's a trial every month.


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> Just curious about something. When you go to trials do you go all three days, two days or just one? All of our trials run Fri/Sat/Sun and I have always done just one day (except one where I did two). Trials here are once or twice a month and I couldn't imagine doing three days that often but most of these people do. I would love to do two days though but not all the time. Of course if we ever get out of Open and working on a MACH I suppose I would want to be able to do it as many days as possible but I could never do Fridays. That is way in the future though since we are just starting open. Just curious how often you all go.....


Depends....on what else I have going on that weekend (sometimes I'm teaching on Sundays), how often I'm trialing, the location of the trial, how many runs I'm doing.... Most often I do 1 or 2 days. A couple times a year I will do 3 days and that's usually because of the trial location. We don't get many outside trials around here so the last AKC one I did we did all 3 days. There's a I really like that only has 2 trials a year so I will usually do 2 or 3 days at that trial. My club's big Thanksgiving weekend trial I do all 3 days too. If I'm trialing back to back weekends I may only do 1 day, definitely not 3 though. That's too much for me, much less my dog! This year I have used some of my vacation days to take Fridays off and trial Fri/Sat, that has been really nice because Fridays are usually smaller and run quicker (at least in my area) and then I have Sunday to either teach or enjoy a regular weekend day.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I have NO IDEA what to expect of a private lesson this early on, but I'm eager to find out. Also interested to see if she'll do a danged thing out there, surrounded by horses. They aren't CLOSE to the agility area, but it's there, so I guess we'll have to see.
> 
> I'm so glad you're looking forward to it and feeling more confident. I wasn't kidding about wanting to hear about it, though!


I think horses would be a huge distraction for Nova...now that I think about it, I don't think she has ever even seen a horse (aside from ones on TV). 

Oh, I'm sure I'll be updating and asking LOTS of questions on here (even more than usual, haha) once the new class starts up. 

Also, there are lots of trials coming up in my area, so Nova and I are going to go and watch a few together this month. The first one we are going to go to together is next week. I'm excited to bring her, and I hope it's a really positive experience for her.


----------



## Laurelin

dogsule said:


> Just curious about something. When you go to trials do you go all three days, two days or just one? All of our trials run Fri/Sat/Sun and I have always done just one day (except one where I did two). Trials here are once or twice a month and I couldn't imagine doing three days that often but most of these people do. I would love to do two days though but not all the time. Of course if we ever get out of Open and working on a MACH I suppose I would want to be able to do it as many days as possible but I could never do Fridays. That is way in the future though since we are just starting open. Just curious how often you all go.....


I do one day with Summer since she's older but with Hank will likely do all 2-3 days when possible. Money will probably be the deciding factor.


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> I think horses would be a huge distraction for Nova...now that I think about it, I don't think she has ever even seen a horse (aside from ones on TV). .


I'm torn. On one hand, she's successfully left deer and the like, and played a decent frisbee game in a field adjoining cows. On the other, she's lost her ever-loving-mind at every single livestock animal she has ever laid eyes on at least briefly. Guess it depends on whether I can focus her or not.


----------



## pawsaddict

Hope Molly's private lesson goes great today, CptJack!


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Hope Molly's private lesson goes great today, CptJack!


It didn't go badly! She actually did some agility work  Her lesson wasn't the whole half hour because Kylie's ran over (that course was HARD, mostly because of 'dead' jumps around the ones I needed to take) but she did well. She played ball, she didn't freak out at people working off to the side, stayed with me more or less, and did some sending from various angles and crosses and jumps and tunnels. I need to remember to actually, um, call her in when I'm doing crosses with her. It was definitely better than I expected in a lot of ways, and I'm really, really glad we got a chance to do it.

Probably won't be a regular thing just because of scheduling for the instructor, but I will take opportunities as they come. To be honest, right now I'm mostly about getting her playing agility in different locations. Might actually start carting a tunnel and couple of hoops around with me for a bit, just to work on that, but that's another thing altogether. She's still got some, um, temperamental issues. They're better as evidenced by her being able to handle the class and work out on the practice field but. It's a thing.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and Kylie's lesson - seriously, besides me getting lost that dog is on FIRE lately. She's so, so fast and happy and enthusiastic. She actually got zoomies today, though I have no doubt that at least some of that is the result of me getting lost and her just deciding that, fine, she's going ANYWAY. She nailed her discriminations (including a tunnel/tunnel one which - whoa) and is getting a lot better at collecting to get her weave entrances, finding the entrance, and then actually weaving. I need to be careful how hard I push speed wide or she pops out and just runs, but so. much. better.

I am really looking forward to the trial in September.


----------



## CptJack

Annnnd, because apparently I have a lot to say: 

The question of 'would Kylie run for the instructor' was answered today with a resounding 'yes', since demonstrating handling to me resulted in Kylie following along and doing it. That delights me for some reason.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey and I had a great, looooooooooooong weekend (Fri/Sat) of CPE! Picked up 8 more Q's towards our nationals count! 12 left to go! We also completely finished Level 3 and finished Level 4 snooker. 

But more importantly....we had great weaves all weekend!! No refusals, no pops, only perfect weaves! Friday - 6 weaves in Wildcard, easy. 12 weaves in Standard, nailed it! Saturday - 6 weaves in Jackpot, 2 separate sets of 6 in Standard, 6 in colors and 6 in snooker...boom boom boom, nailed them all! Even when she was so completely exhausted in Snooker and I thought no way is she going to weave like this...she drove right ahead of me and into the weaves perfectly! So proud of her! 

I ended up scratching the last class of the day Saturday, she was just way too tired (I was way tired) and I was starting to see a little hitch in her step and felt a little heat in her back, totally wasn't worth 1 more run. The days were soooooooo long. It was a full trial both days, Friday we got there at 7 am and left at 7:15 pm. Saturday we got there at 8 am and I called it quits early and we were out of there at 5 pm. 

We have next weekend off then the following weekend we are doing another 2 days (Fri/Sat) of CPE, staying in a hotel Friday night. We also start class back up this week Thursday! The name of the class.....Fancy Schmancy Moves Class! It's being offered to people that attended my instructors One Mind Dogs seminar in the spring. I'm super excited for it!

ETA: Video duh! Friday's runs, have not uploaded Saturday yet.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Annnnd, because apparently I have a lot to say:
> 
> The question of 'would Kylie run for the instructor' was answered today with a resounding 'yes', since demonstrating handling to me resulted in Kylie following along and doing it. That delights me for some reason.


Awesome! Belle has also performed for the trainers I have had when/if they tried to show me how to do something, which I was thankful for.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Zoey and I had a great, looooooooooooong weekend (Fri/Sat) of CPE! Picked up 8 more Q's towards our nationals count! 12 left to go! We also completely finished Level 3 and finished Level 4 snooker.
> 
> But more importantly....we had great weaves all weekend!! No refusals, no pops, only perfect weaves! Friday - 6 weaves in Wildcard, easy. 12 weaves in Standard, nailed it! Saturday - 6 weaves in Jackpot, 2 separate sets of 6 in Standard, 6 in colors and 6 in snooker...boom boom boom, nailed them all! Even when she was so completely exhausted in Snooker and I thought no way is she going to weave like this...she drove right ahead of me and into the weaves perfectly! So proud of her!
> 
> I ended up scratching the last class of the day Saturday, she was just way too tired (I was way tired) and I was starting to see a little hitch in her step and felt a little heat in her back, totally wasn't worth 1 more run. The days were soooooooo long. It was a full trial both days, Friday we got there at 7 am and left at 7:15 pm. Saturday we got there at 8 am and I called it quits early and we were out of there at 5 pm.
> 
> We have next weekend off then the following weekend we are doing another 2 days (Fri/Sat) of CPE, staying in a hotel Friday night. We also start class back up this week Thursday! The name of the class.....Fancy Schmancy Moves Class! It's being offered to people that attended my instructors One Mind Dogs seminar in the spring. I'm super excited for it!
> 
> ETA: Video duh! Friday's runs, have not uploaded Saturday yet.


Awesome.....so how many events do you enter each day? With our AKC it is just standard and jumpers and then one of the games either T2B or FAST and that is it, only 3 things you can enter each day. I don't do either of the T2B or FAST yet. I entered fast twice when we first started but then decided I wanted to know what I was doing and have Belle listen to me better before I tried it again cause I felt like I was spending $18 on a one run training class. We may start to do it now though since we are getting a little better. On sundays only standard and jumpers are run which is the day I am going to start doing trials now, used to do Saturdays but it was such a long day with FAST, T2B wasn't too bad but Sundays are nice cause you get out of there early.


----------



## CptJack

NADAC does 6 runs each day here. Kylie can not hack 6. I do 3 each day most of the time, 4 sometimes, but I can't do 6. Trials are sometimes just straight up 'games trials' (about one a year?) so there are no regular runs. Those I tend to just pick two games and do them both days, for a total of 4. Trials with regular runs I do regular 1 and 2 both days and then toss in a games run and if tunnelers is an option it's my go to/going to be my go to. It's still a long 14-15 obstacle course but it's all tunnels and usually toward the end of the day. It's a really great way to unwind, blow off some steam and the dogs love it.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Awesome! Belle has also performed for the trainers I have had when/if they tried to show me how to do something, which I was thankful for.


Whoops, missed this. I'm particularly impressed because honestly? Kylie wouldn't even let that lady give her a treat when we started. She sure as heck wouldn't run for her! Now I really think the instructor is probably her favorite person not me, and I love that.


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> Awesome.....so how many events do you enter each day? With our AKC it is just standard and jumpers and then one of the games either T2B or FAST and that is it, only 3 things you can enter each day. I don't do either of the T2B or FAST yet. I entered fast twice when we first started but then decided I wanted to know what I was doing and have Belle listen to me better before I tried it again cause I felt like I was spending $18 on a one run training class. We may start to do it now though since we are getting a little better. On sundays only standard and jumpers are run which is the day I am going to start doing trials now, used to do Saturdays but it was such a long day with FAST, T2B wasn't too bad but Sundays are nice cause you get out of there early.


CPE trials will typically offer 4 or 5 runs per day. But they are not all long runs, CPE has a lot of games classes where there are nice short, 10 obstacle runs. So it's not like running 4 or 5 AKC Standard runs with 20 obstacles. But it does make for really long days. I don't think I have ever left a CPE trial before 4 pm.... Which is why I scratched the last run on the 2nd day. When I do 2 days of CPE I may or may not enter everything depending on lots of factors, but it is nice that they do a package price if you enter all runs or all days, so rather than wasting a $12 entry fee, I barely lost out on a couple dollars by not running that last run. We couldn't do 3 days of CPE running all 15 runs, I don't know how some people do it.

In AKC I usually enter 3 max per day, Std, JWW and a game. The nice thing about FAST is that you can make it whatever you want. You can make it a shorter run, you can tailor the run to practice what you need to practice. My last FAST run we did the AF twice even though it only counted once for points because I needed to enforce her contact and then we did weaves and a few jumps in between. For me, its very valuable to use FAST or T2B as a training run in the ring.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> For me, its very valuable to use FAST or T2B as a training run in the ring.


That is very true! Our next trial is July 26 and I am doing the day with no games. Maybe the next one in August I will try FAST again, at least it will be Novice yet. LOL!



CptJack said:


> NADAC does 6 runs each day here. Kylie can not hack 6. I do 3 each day most of the time, 4 sometimes, but I can't do 6. Trials are sometimes just straight up 'games trials' (about one a year?) so there are no regular runs. Those I tend to just pick two games and do them both days, for a total of 4. Trials with regular runs I do regular 1 and 2 both days and then toss in a games run and if tunnelers is an option it's my go to/going to be my go to. It's still a long 14-15 obstacle course but it's all tunnels and usually toward the end of the day. It's a really great way to unwind, blow off some steam and the dogs love it.


Wow on 6!! I could easily do 3, most likely 4 but not more than that. 2 seems like not much at all, really.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Wow on 6!! I could easily do 3, most likely 4 but not more than that. 2 seems like not much at all, really.


Yeah, 6 is a lot. It's mostly 2 regular runs, with the other 4 being assorted games. I feel like 3 is the sweet spot for Kylie - enough to get in a groove but not enough to go flat. Four is doable if #4 is tunnlers or something equally fun and nondemanding. Doing more than that is just out of the question for her. It's not so much the four courses, but it's four courses spread out over hours and hours and her brain slowly just leaks out her ear. 

I'd LIKE to be able to do all 12 in a weekend to really take advantage of the opportunities, but it's just too much to keep it fun for her. The thing is, that on a given weekend if you hit all your Qs in much of anything, you could title. Since there are usually 4 of whatever in a weekend and you only need 3 for the title. I mean, I have yet to Q at all, but the IDEA is appealing, you know?

Will probably do the 4 in a day thing for the next trial since I'm only doing 1 day. It's just a little too far and a little too not greatly set up as a location for me to want more. I mean it's pretty but there's no shade, no running water, and port-a-johns. 

(I also use Touch 'n' Go as practice, really. It's not something we're very good at, but it's good neat stuff. I also really want to try Chances soon. Ironically Jumpers interests me not at all, but it's largely, I realize, because I can't keep those courses straight. In NADAC they're literally nothing BUT jumps).


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I'd LIKE to be able to do all 12 in a weekend to really take advantage of the opportunities, but it's just too much to keep it fun for her. The thing is, that on a given weekend if you hit all your Qs in much of anything, you could title. Since there are usually 4 of whatever in a weekend and you only need 3 for the title. I mean, I have yet to Q at all, but the IDEA is appealing, you know?
> 
> (I also use Touch 'n' Go as practice, really. It's not something we're very good at, but it's good neat stuff. I also really want to try Chances soon. Ironically Jumpers interests me not at all, but it's largely, I realize, because I can't keep those courses straight. In NADAC they're literally nothing BUT jumps).


Yeah it would be appealing to get a title in one weekend. For our AKC trials Fridays are for all classes of FAST and just EXC/MAS standard and jumpers. Saturday is all classes of STD/JWW/and FAST or T2B (not both) and Sunday is for all classes of STD and JWW, no games. So for us, except for those in Excellent, no titles. I could see once you are working on your MACH though and needing all those double Q's and points for time under, wanting to do all three days. However I doubt I would ever be able to do three days. That will be awhile for us anyway though since we are just beginning in Open. 

What is Touch n Go and Chances??


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> What is Touch n Go and Chances??



Things get touchier for us once you're trying to do NATCH and versatility stuff but for Novice through Elite being able to move up in one weekend just has draw. Rarely happens, but people keep hoping  And I guess it keeps run fees coming in. 

Touch 'n Go and Chances are NADAC games. Touch 'n Go is basically no jumps or weaves - so contacts, hoops, tunnels, barrels (hoops and barrels being NADC things - and NADAC has no teeter, table or tire). Chances is distance, where you stand behind a line for some portion of the course containing at least one discrimination. The course is otherwise pretty normal - or at least contains everything. Touch 'n' Go courses stay the same for all levels but the times get tighter. Chances you increase distance and difficulty.


----------



## Laurelin

USDAA is usually 4 runs per day (standard, jumpers, snookers, gamblers... sometimes pairs and teams too though) and then tournament runs (steeplechase, performance spped jumping, grand prix (?)... ????). Some people run everything and the tournaments, I've never done any of the tournaments. Or pairs. Oh god the thought of doing pairs with Hank is painful... I guess we'll have to try though eventually.


----------



## Laurelin

I thought this yps thing was neat.

http://baddogagility.com/a-look-at-speed-by-height/


----------



## CptJack

That is *incredibly* cool. Thanks for posting it. Really helps me gain some perspective on speed.


----------



## Laurelin

Well um. Two things. 

1. Hank is bigger than I thought and may wicket 18" usdaa. He is right at 16" tall. Wtf. I thought he was 14.75". 

2. Hank and I are entered in our first trial in two weeks. Omg. After much talking with my trainer she says he's ready to see how it goes. It's on our practice field so that's good. I'm hoping we can get in a private lesson before then.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm kind of shocked right now she thinks we are ready. But she's right. He's doing everything superbly in class- 12 weaves, table, contacts, nailing it and he's of age (19 months). So... don't know till we try! 

I'm still floored I've been calling him 14.75" tall and he's actually 16" give or take. It's gonna be close... On the plus side being over 16" is better for AKC but worse for USDAA. Fudge.

In class today we did some discriminations. We NAILED a jaako. I like jaakos (spelling?). He did his weaves. Did his teeter. Got his contacts. Did distance dog walk (!). Nice straight line work. 

I think if I go into this with a good attitude of not focusing on Qs and just see what happens it'll be good. Especially since it's at our class time (night trial) and at our field and small size. Gonna email about a private lesson just to do contacts and teeter and weaves.


----------



## CptJack

I am really excited for you guys! I'm sure you'll have fun and do great, and you'll come home grinning from ear to ear!

I don't know what my deal with agility is. I love it, and I can't quit it, but it really makes me feel like an uncoordinated idiot sometimes. It's equal parts social anxiety/nerves getting in my way and my brain just NOT wanting to hold onto everything it needs to hold onto sometimes. Why yes, I am giving my last private less a post-mortem exam, why do you ask? 

Ironically I can remember the course I was getting lost on, now. Maybe not perfectly, but it's more solidly in my head now than it was then. I really think I have to stop caving to 'it's a private lesson it's all waiting on me' and rushing through the course walk through and planning, too. That's not all of it, but I doubt it's helping me.


----------



## Laurelin

I think I have this weird hangup that I'm NOT going to be one of those people that enters the first trial that he's old enough to compete in. And while he could have done AKC sooner, this *IS* the first USDAA trial he's old enough for. But it's silly to wait for an arbitrary date in my head. He's further along than the dogs in his class who have been training 6+ months longer than him. He's honestly further along than Summer ever was.

I went ahead and entered him at 16". We'll see if they make me bump him up to 18". I hope not.


----------



## CptJack

I get weird hangups like that too, though mine are mostly related to not wanting to expect anything from my dog ever, because I don't want to be one of those people who loses the fun and relationship with the dog as the primary focus and gets caught up in the ribbons and Qs. I take it too far, though, to the degree that I self-depreciate and talk myself into expecting a worst case scenario every time and generally shooting myself in the foot. 

I don't think there is necessary anything wrong with entering the dog in the first trial they are old enough to enter, even if the dog *isn't* ready, as long as you are committed to making it a positive experience for the dog. And by that I mean not ready to perform agility well and is definitely not going to qualify and maybe you know you can't do a whole course or have to skip an obstacle here and there - not 'not ready' as in a dog who won't listen and doesn't stay with you. To me, it's not fundamentally different than a show and go, and probably because of my venue no one cares at all - as long as you let the next person know you're likely to have a very, very short run so they're not caught off guard/unprepared. 

That said, Hank's ready and I know you aren't going to lose your cool if he doesn't blow it away for whatever reason. You're FINE.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm pretty laid back about trials so I think it'll be fine. I do know people who only do show n gos and not trials with youngsters but to me they are essentially the same. I'd handle it all the same. 

I know he can do all the equipment and run a full 15ish obstacle course. My biggest concern is getting distracted BUT the ring here is gated and closed so that shouldn't be a problem. My old plan was to enter him in the November trial but it will be bigger, won't offer intro classes, will have a tournament, won't be at his usual practice field, would require a hotel stay, and won't have the gated entry/exit at the ring. So seems pretty ideal to enter him NOW instead even if fairly early. Do this one then evaluate. If all goes well I *may* take a stab at an AKC trial in the early fall. If not, train till the November USDAA trial. 

I did get butterflies last night because I know several people are really anxious to see what he'll do. No one really cared with Summer? I don't know if it's a combo of Hank doing so well or me not being a n00b or what. So there *is* a bit more pressure than I ever felt with Summer. With Summer I just was so laid back because she was old and we knew we'd never compete a lot. But now this morning it's not as big of a deal. I was a bit nervous before Summer's first trial too though.


----------



## Laurelin

FYI. New England USDAA Regionals free live stream Friday-Sunday. If you get bored and want to watch some agility, here ya go!

http://www.usdaa.com/article.cfm?newsID=2918


----------



## pawsaddict

That's so exciting, Laurelin! So happy for you guys  Get out there, have fun, and rock it! 



CptJack said:


> I don't know what my deal with agility is. I love it, and I can't quit it, but it really makes me feel like an uncoordinated idiot sometimes. It's equal parts social anxiety/nerves getting in my way and my brain just NOT wanting to hold onto everything it needs to hold onto sometimes.


This.Is.Me. I think I have a sequence down in my mind, and then, when it's the middle of my turn, my mind just....melts. and I stand there and am like "whaaaa?".


----------



## CptJack

Yeeep. I hadn't actually forgotten a course in a while and was feeling better about it, but then this past weekend just - nope. No way. I'd have it, I'd see it, I'd start it, and then I'd get in the middle of it and go "...I have no idea what I'm doing here." I did get one really good tip about it from my instructor? If that happens, either stop and feed the dog in practice, or do anything at all and run out when it's a trial, so your confusion and frustration doesn't upset the dog/make it think it's their fault. 

But I would REALLY LOVE to remember where I'm going and how I plan to handle! If I can't have both, I'll take where I'm going. Getting lost on the course really, really distresses and frustrates me. Not embarrassment so much as just... freezing up and feeling *STUPID*. And I know it happens and I shouldn't care - I don't actually CARE on that level. I just hate it.


----------



## pawsaddict

That's really good advice from your trainer. I haven't really been doing that for Nova when I forget something, and I really should.

I feel the same way as you. I'll add embarrassed to my list, though, especially when I am thr only one having the problem.

We'll get there, though (and you're already doing amazing and going long periods without forgetting something, which is awesome, btw.). Practice makes perfect...right?! Haha.


----------



## Laurelin

If I forget where to go I just make up a course and keep running. I've done it many many times. Dog doesn't know you've done the wrong course. No big deal.


----------



## CptJack

Going to lots of practices and trials and seeing other people get lost/run wrong courses had actually gotten me past the embarrassment (in general, I'm pretty embarrassed when it happens in a private). Now I just panic and freeze like a deer in the headlights because apparently ALL the thoughts fell out of my head along with the course.


----------



## Laurelin

So OMD stuff. I thought it was kind of gimmicky but oh wow how I need it with Hank. I had a sequence last night that was tunnel (discrimination with dog walk) to two jumps to sharp right turn to a straight line of four jumps. 

The first three jumps were set up kind of like 

---|----|

--__

I need a way to draw diagrams. The longer lines are the jumps. Ignore the dashes. They were just space holders.

But anyways the right turn was really sharp and the last jump on the first straight was out further than the second straight. Since Hank is babydog I didn't think I could hover back and take off the other direction fast enough to make it work. That was my first thought to send him with a wrap to the right and stay on the inside of it all. 

All the other handlers front crossed to the outside and ran on the right hand for the 4 jump straight line. I tried that with Hank and failed like... a lot. He was just too fast and we ran into each other.

Did a Jaakko and ran it all on the left and it was perfectly smooth and flowy and awesome. 

I feel like I need to pursue this OMD thing more.


----------



## CptJack

I actually really like OMD. If someone forced me to pick a single 'system' (and please don't, I steal from all over), it would be One Mind Dog stuff. I've gotten more useful stuff from them than any other single source. It's got lots of good stuff in there.


----------



## kadylady

I also have really enjoyed the little bit of OMD stuff that I have done. I'm in the category of probably will never need it with Zoey, but I can really see using more of it with Skye, who will most definitely be faster. But I really enjoy learning it and practicing it with Zoey....hopefully I will be better at it when it's Skye's turn! Zoey does seem to do well though with the reverse spins and we actually use quite a few lap turn things.


----------



## Laurelin

Ok so in my head Ketschkers, Jaakkos, and Reverse spins all seem to do pretty much the same thing with minor differences? What is the benefit of choosing one vs the other. Jaakko has been my go to because my trainer likes them but they also seem to make sense to me and Hank reads them well.

I just see them all almost the same way.

Jaakko vs Ketscher- send with different hand? But both pick up on the same hand?

Jaakko vs Reverse Spin- turn opposite ways? Jaakko- in towards the dog, Reverse Spin- away from dog. Both pick up on the same side?


----------



## CptJack

http://www.oneminddogs.com/article/Jaakko-Turn-vs-Reverse-Spin/?lang=en This is just Jakko vs. Reverse Spin. 



> Putting it briefly, Jaakko Turn and Reverse Spin are used for different purposes and in different kind of situations. A Jaakko Turn is useful when you need your dog to do a really tight turn. A Reverse Spin, on the other hand, is used when you need to just make an adjustment to the dog's line, or to eliminate off-course obstacles from his direct view.


Largely situational, basically, and cued differently for the dog, but not all that different for the handler.

Tonight was the best agility class I've ever had with Molly. She was happy and confident and up and ON and actually got butt-tucked zoomies and play-bowed at the training assistant. We also ran a little mini-course that she did well with, but mostly? Confident, happy, up and ON puppy.


----------



## Laurelin

Yay Molly! It is so fun when they figure it out. 



Laurelin said:


> FYI. New England USDAA Regionals free live stream Friday-Sunday. If you get bored and want to watch some agility, here ya go!
> 
> http://www.usdaa.com/article.cfm?newsID=2918


MsBoats is this the one y'all will be at? It sounded like you might in another thread?


----------



## Laurelin

The idea that Hank may be an 18" dog is kind of stressing me. I tried measuring him under a 16" jump and it was very borderline. You think that's accurate? Anyone had a really borderline dog?


----------



## CptJack

Kylie's really, really borderline? She's measured 11, and she's measured just over. At 11" she would just 8" - anything over and she would jump 12". For now, at least, I just enter her at 11.1 and run her skilled at 8" (skilled dogs aren't measured). That works for me in our venue. 

Molly is in no way borderline. She's over 19" now. Like clearly over - 19.5. She's jumping 20" in NADAC which is their tallest class and doesn't require measuring, either. (All other regular classes do), unless I run her skilled at 16. More and more I'm leaning toward just running her at 20 most of the time, but I haven't worked her up to full height jumps either way (she's legit still at 12") so we'll have to see when I up the height. 

Not sure measuring him with a jump would work since the bar and thickness of the jump cup/thing would also be accounted for in there. Can you get your instructor or someone to wicket him?

(Also thanks! It really is fun. Really wish I had more access to contact equipment. She's got decent obstacle focus for the stuff we can practice at home and will move on toward it. She doesn't have that with the dog walk or a-frame. She's getting better adn improves over the course of the class, but she still refocuses so hard on me that I get hip checked. It's also, I've noticed, when I get BITTEN. She's just too close to me and the cue for the a-frame/dog-walk don't quite tell her where she's going yet.)


----------



## kadylady

Zoey was borderline for CPE...she measured 19.5 under one judge, 19.75 under a second and 19.5 under a third. CPE 16" jump height is for dogs that measure 16"-20". So technically she measured into the 16" jump height for CPE. But I jump her at 20" because that's what she measured into for AKC. AKC 16" is for dogs 18" and under, 20" is for dogs 22" and under. Evaluating her at this time, she jumps better at 20" than 16". 

I had to have multiple different people at the club help me practice with the wicket because measuring was a terrifying process for her. She was fine with the wicket and fine with people she knew...but would totally melt into the table if it was someone she didn't know. She had to be measured 3 times for CPE, thankfully only twice for AKC, but still...that's 5 times! Trials were much less stressful once measuring was out of the way.


----------



## kadylady

My instructor sent me this video.... lol

[video]http://video-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpt1/v/t42.1790-2/11724385_736890759755429_611068063_n.mp4?efg=eyJyb HIiOjMyMCwicmxhIjo1MTJ9&rl=320&vabr=178&oh=4ba0589caea1d8308646784ba50ba2bd&oe=559D7367[/video]


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> My instructor sent me this video.... lol
> 
> [video]http://video-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpt1/v/t42.1790-2/11724385_736890759755429_611068063_n.mp4?efg=eyJyb HIiOjMyMCwicmxhIjo1MTJ9&rl=320&vabr=178&oh=4ba0589caea1d8308646784ba50ba2bd&oe=559D7367[/video]


LOL that was hilarious. Just shared it with my agility trainer...she cancelled class on Monday. It was due to the humidity though and the fact that it makes the floor slippery.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> The idea that Hank may be an 18" dog is kind of stressing me. I tried measuring him under a 16" jump and it was very borderline. You think that's accurate? Anyone had a really borderline dog?


Belle was pretty easy. I figured she was 16" but they measured her at 15 1/4....she jumps 16. Once I had her doing a course where the jumps were at 20, I totally didn't notice it and she knocked a bar. I was like wtheck you never knock bars and then I realized it was at 20. Oops.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh snap.

"Your entry for the following dog was received before closing, and you
have a spot in our agility trial. Please check all information listed
below carefully, and contact me with any discrepancies immediately.
A final printed confirmation will be sent once the trial has closed.

Hank
U148956
All-American
Pairs Partner: Not Entered

Height Card On File: No"

WEll. At least we have a private lesson on Friday and one more class till then?


----------



## Kyllobernese

My sister had her Rat Terrier in an Agility trial last weekend. In the Gamblers class she got enough points and was heading for the final closing when she suddenly stopped at the tunnel and looked up at it. Someone had forgotten their gloves on top of the tunnel. She did get a rerun but did not get enough points the second time but did the closing fine without the gloves there. The next day she did get her first Q in Gamblers though. She is doing really well except for the weaves, just cannot seem to get them. She has started her back to 2x2 but no luck so far. She just cannot seem to get the concept of what she is supposed to do. Took her a long time to figure the teeter out, now just loves to do it.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Belle was pretty easy. I figured she was 16" but they measured her at 15 1/4....she jumps 16. Once I had her doing a course where the jumps were at 20, I totally didn't notice it and she knocked a bar. I was like wtheck you never knock bars and then I realized it was at 20. Oops.


I did this with Kylie once, though at 16" instead of 20. And she was *taking the jumps*, without knocking bars. I was impressed - after I stopped feeling guilty.


----------



## LoMD13

Fingers crossed that Hank measures into the lower height! USDAA can be huge sticklers about jump heights and they're way too high anyways. I was kind of shocked when I got to NADAC nice and early to be measured and they took one look at her and just said "Meh, you're fine"


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> FYI. New England USDAA Regionals free live stream Friday-Sunday. If you get bored and want to watch some agility, here ya go!
> 
> http://www.usdaa.com/article.cfm?newsID=2918


Fun! I have a couple friends going to that one. Me and Lola are going camping or else we would have gone.


----------



## Laurelin

CptJack said:


> I did this with Kylie once, though at 16" instead of 20. And she was *taking the jumps*, without knocking bars. I was impressed - after I stopped feeling guilty.


Hank last weekend... Had to cut my nieces out of these (don't want to post pics of other peoples' kids). Bar at 16"



















Accidentally he has jumped 26" easily. No knocked bars. 

But he just seems small to jump 18" in competitions.


----------



## Laurelin

And why the heck not, I'll post a couple more crops.


----------



## pawsaddict

Awesome pics, Laurelin! Love the third-last one!


----------



## CptJack

Agreed - those pictures are AWESOME.


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks guys!

We had our practice lesson and I feel pretty good about the trial really. Yep there were some fumbles but we're a green team and I'm still getting used to the speed and also how deliberate I need to be about handling. That is my goal going into the trial. 1) Happy dog 2) be deliberate. No 'flappy arms' as my trainer calls them Haha.

We did every piece of equipment. Did some sequences. Saw equipment he hasn't seen in a while. he accidentally took a 20" set of jumps. Whoops. Never would have noticed if my trainer hadn't caught it afterwards.

On that note we got out the real wicket and he's at 15.25".     

I was THINKING 16+" just seemed wrong and glad I confirmed that. So we *should* have no issues getting in 16". 

I think we're ready. My trainer said you know, he's not your first dog, you've been working him a lot outside of class, he's really a natural at it. So she thinks we're ready.

Now my big concern is the field borders his playing field that we take him to weekly for his dog friend romp. So at the trial hopefully people won't play too near the ring. Hopefully. Or else major distraction. But it's mostly dogs he knows. So like on monday his BFF was running in the field and he lost it a bit. 

One more practice on monday and then we'll have a few rest days and then trial on Friday. O___O

My trainer told me that I've done a really really good job with Hank. Made me a bit proud.  It's nice to hear sometimes.


----------



## Laurelin

Don't forget! USDAA regionals FREE live stream! You do have to sign up but it is free once you do!

https://www.cynosport.tv


----------



## Laurelin

Also another thought my trainer warned me today that she was absolutely going to be much harder on me and my handling than the other dogs in class. To which I am honestly really grateful. And I told her that too.


----------



## CptJack

Best. Lessons. Ever. 

The course today was just fast, flow-y and fun and we GOT IT. There was one little spot where Kylie had to look to me to see where we were going, but otherwise she just flat out RAN the whole thing and I stayed with her and knew what I was doing. It was beautiful and it was so, so much fun to run like that and have success. It's such a rush. Even got specifically told running like that that Kylie would have no trouble making time at any level. 

We're still working on discriminations, she's got one weak side on the switches where she wants to spin, and I'm going to have to start upping the ante on collection for weaves as of now (ie: no more 'just weaves' ever, and restarts always happen from the obstacle before), but. Yeah. I'm high on that lesson. ESPECIALLY after the past couple of weeks of me fumbling around and forgetting things and just sucking.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin - so excited to hear about Hank's first trial!! 

We started our new class this week, which is learning more OMD moves and putting them into practice. We reviewed Jaakko's and reverse spins this week, the difference in where to use them, and then did a mini course. We did well. Zoey was pretty sore so we took it easy. She got adjusted and massaged at the vet earlier that day and the vet found a few really sore spots so we will be going back there every couple weeks again until we get this figured out.

After class my instructor let me run her dog through our mini course filled with Jaakko's, reverse spins, back sides and blind crosses. She said "you need to learn to do this stuff with a faster dog to prepare for Skye" and wow did it make me realize just how much extra time I have with Zoey to think, adjust and even change plans. With a fast dog like her BC, it's go with your gut or don't go at all. There is no time at all to second guess or even think about what you have to do, you just gotta do it! It was really super fun running him though. And I actually did okay! Lol 

Then Skye got to do the A frame for the first time. We've been doing her 2o2o at the bottom but haven't done it full yet. I was showing my instructor where we are at with that and she was like let's let her do the whole thing. We did it a couple times with her and first time she was kind of like um scary! Then after that she was like oh this is way more fun than just the bottom! She was even getting her contact too! We won't do it much until she's a bit older (or until I decide if I'm going to do X-rays to see if her growth plates are closed) but it was nice to do something new and different with her and see her light up and then put the pieces together.


----------



## Laurelin

Adjusting to a fast dog is hard. I'm pretty resigned at this point with Hank just stopping and re-setting him if we absolutely get into a bind at the trial (which will happen). I just haven't quite worked out the timing and hopefully it'll get better as his distance skills improve. But no, there is no time to change your mind or adjust things at all. And as my trainer has pointed out numerous times Summer let me get away with a LOT in handling since I was faster than her. Hank is not going to be forgiving...

. Plus side is I don't have to worry about Hank crapping out on me but it's an adjustment for sure. I've run a few big, fast dogs (a couple BCs and a belgian) before as well as my friend's sheltie who is FAST. But those were already trained and it's soooo much easier than trying to figure out timing and train on your own dog. But after having both slow and fast, I'll take fast please. It's more difficult in some ways but I love not having to work on motivation all that much.

We did have a moment where I totally goofed up and did my cross in the wrong spot and Hank verbally called off the dog walk to hit the weaves even though I'd clearly sent him accidentally to the dog walk. My trainer is doing a good job grilling me about the handling I'm doing. Why and when and yelling at me for 'flappy arms'. lol

My homework this week is to watch Silvia Trkman's arms as she runs and how well she supports her dogs with her arms.


----------



## CptJack

It's strange, but I'm having a harder time adjusting to Kylie suddenly (ish - it's been ramping up for weeks, maybe even months) hauling butt than I am to Molly. Of course, Molly's not doing anything real, but I mostly do okay-ish with her. Kylie I am more likely to fumble with - there are periods where she goes 'Whee!YAY!" and I go "Whoa, WHAT?" and fumble. It doesn't happen every time, my timing has improved a TON since spring, but still. Every once in a while I'm just very taken aback and almost want to stand there with my mouth open and stare. 

I really can't wait for the trial in September. I want a new YPS for Kylie. I'm kind of boggling at her speed lately, and I'm not really sure where it came from. Or, heck, even a video if I can ever figure that out. Neither one will happen before fall, but I can not believe how far she has come. 

Oh and today while waiting with the instructor, the instructor got to *pet her* while I walked the course.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm hoping we don't actually E every run. I don't care about Qs but I'd like a yps on Hank so finishing a course would be nice. lol My trainer keeps telling me he is FAST fast and even threw out 'national rankings quality'.... which I am trying to throw to the back of my mind because that is so way out of my scope at this point. That's assuming he runs in a trial like he does in class.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank also has a really long stride for a dog of his size imo. Can kinda see here:


----------



## CptJack

Yeah. Kylie's stride is actually giving me some difficulty right now re: collections with weaves :/ She's nowhere near 'National Rankings' fast (or anywhere close), but she has a heck of a stride when she fully extends. Thinking about it, I'm not sure Molly extends like that, ever. ...In fact, I'm 98% sure she *doesn't*.


----------



## CptJack

Nope, wrong, she does extend quite a bit: 









She doesn't come close to extending as much as Kylie does - comparatively/proportionally - but apparently she stretches out more than I realized. 

God I love cameras.


----------



## Laurelin

Watching USDAA regionals has made me realize Hank hasn't seen a spread jump yet. :/ Wondering if this will be an issue at the trial. 

Yeah Hank doesn't like collecting so much but he's figuring it out slowly. 

Also I got his height card in the mail! Question though: If we get his three measurements before he turns 3 (likely) and he can't get a permanent card till he's 3, does that mean we have to be measured every trial until he's three? Any USDAA people know? This wasn't an issue with Summer since she was 9 when we first trialled.


----------



## Laurelin

So some number stuff I've found interesting. Others might or might not. I'm bored. It's hot outside.

Breeds (based on AKC Masters JWW Qs) where at least one individual is running 6.0 yps or over. (Aka very very fast)



> All American (Mixed Breed)
> Australian Cattle Dog
> Australian Shepherd
> Belgian Malinois
> Belgian Sheepdog
> Belgian Tervuren
> Border Collie
> Doberman
> Flat Coated Retriever
> German Shepherd Dog
> Golden Retriever
> Labrador Retriever
> Miniature American Shepherd
> Papillon
> Poodle
> Pyrenean Shepherd
> Shetland Sheepdog
> Whippet


via bad dog agility stats for 2014

And then looking at total USDAA breed reg numbers of the same group of breeds was interesting to me.



> All American (Mixed Breed)- 8,826 dogs
> Australian Cattle Dog- 916 dogs
> Australian Shepherd- 6,316 dogs
> Belgian Malinois- 527 dogs
> Belgian Sheepdog- 336 dogs
> Belgian Tervuren- 750 dogs
> Border Collie- 11,423 dogs
> Doberman- 883 dogs
> Flat Coated Retriever- 372 dogs
> German Shepherd Dog- 1,600 dogs
> Golden Retriever- 3,021 dogs
> Labrador Retriever- 2,988 dogs
> Miniature Australian Shepherd- 425 dogs
> Papillon- 1,157 dogs
> Poodle (note in USDAA they are separated by size)- 2,277 dogs
> Pyrenean Shepherd- 135 dogs
> Shetland Sheepdog- 5,683 dogs
> Whippet- 338 dogs


Wish I could have compared AKC to AKC or USDAA to USDAA but I couldn't find the numbers to do so.


----------



## LoMD13

Are there spread jumps in novice? I didn't think there were.


----------



## Laurelin

You may be right. I have no idea since I think spreads are really small for little dogs.


----------



## LoMD13

Just did a quick search, looks to me like there are only spread jumps if you're doing championship. I do performance with Lola, so I've never seen them at a trial.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh derp. I knew that. We always have to pull the spreads and triples out for performance. Summer ran performance so we never saw them. Hank is running championship.


----------



## MrsBoats

Ocean saw his first USDAA spread jump on Friday in Speed Jumping which is the performance Steeplechase. It was a non issue for him. You only see the spread in higher levels and tournaments in USDAA. AKC only has a spread jump in Novice.


----------



## Laurelin

Good to know! Haha I'm all nervous.


----------



## CptJack

I am going to miss Molly's last beginner agility class. I want to throw a temper tantrum.


----------



## Laurelin

1. I think I got about 30 mosquito bites tonight. And the mosquitos look about airplane sized. I should probably add I am allergic pretty badly. So now I'm on benadryl. I got bit twice on the face and it's swollen really bad already. Probably not good?

2. Well last practice before the trial was 100% perfect. Seriously we made 0 mistakes today. So I feel like that means the trial will be a disaster, hahaha. Isn't that how it goes? Great practice = bad trial or bad practice = great trial?

I also stayed after class and used the spare field for teeter and weaves practice and one of Summer's old classmates showed up. Haven't seen her since last fall! So that was great. My entire old class is entered in the trial.  I'm excited, haven't seen them in months!

I really like Hank's new class. All the dogs are really neat dogs and very fun.


----------



## Sibe

I'm gonna stick this here, doesn't really fit but whatever because PUPPIES. My previous agility instructor in San Diego is getting her 2nd Pumi and I'm super excited for her.


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> 1. I think I got about 30 mosquito bites tonight. And the mosquitos look about airplane sized. I should probably add I am allergic pretty badly. So now I'm on benadryl. I got bit twice on the face and it's swollen really bad already. Probably not good?
> 
> 2. Well last practice before the trial was 100% perfect. Seriously we made 0 mistakes today. So I feel like that means the trial will be a disaster, hahaha. Isn't that how it goes? Great practice = bad trial or bad practice = great trial?
> 
> I also stayed after class and used the spare field for teeter and weaves practice and one of Summer's old classmates showed up. Haven't seen her since last fall! So that was great. My entire old class is entered in the trial.  I'm excited, haven't seen them in months!
> 
> I really like Hank's new class. All the dogs are really neat dogs and very fun.


 Mosquitoes are the devil. My younger brother is also allergic and bites quickly turn into massive welts. One on his face was so bad his eye swelled shut. Poor kid was Quasi Modo-ish for a couple days.

Great practice can absolutely = great trial. Work hard, keep focus, and break a leg!!


----------



## Laurelin

I got all excited thinking you were getting a pumi. I want a pumi. There's a lady with one at my club and she's awesome!

Mosquitos are the devil. I hate them so much. My forehead is swollen really bad and one even bit through my shoe!

I think Hank and I will work a tiny bit tomorrow night then rest up weds and thursday for the trial. I'm really excited. It's my first night trial. My trainer today said she hopes we finish by 1 am. LOL Lots of coffee. I know they did a midnight trial not long ago in TX. Dog on the line at midnight.


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> I got all excited thinking you were getting a pumi. I want a pumi. There's a lady with one at my club and she's awesome!
> 
> Mosquitos are the devil. I hate them so much. My forehead is swollen really bad and one even bit through my shoe!
> 
> I think Hank and I will work a tiny bit tomorrow night then rest up weds and thursday for the trial. I'm really excited. It's my first night trial. My trainer today said she hopes we finish by 1 am. LOL Lots of coffee. I know they did a midnight trial not long ago in TX. Dog on the line at midnight.


Nah, we just got our tiny Bobb. My next though... I'm eying Silken Windhounds. There are two incredible breeders near me, and the breed stereotype fits exactly what I like in dogs. Wouldn't be for probably another ~3-5 years. Kinda morbid to say, but not until Bobb dies. He doesn't need a puppy in his life.


----------



## kadylady

Sibe said:


> Great practice can absolutely = great trial. Work hard, keep focus, and break a leg!!


^This^ +1!!

We've had a few great practices before trials lately that have led to great trials! 

So our club meeting last night....I may have possibly been put on a list to learn how to secretary for AKC and be a possible back up for our February trial..... :behindsofa:

I've been shadowing our secretaries for our CPE trials but not AKC....that sounds much scarier for some reason!


----------



## CptJack

I was just able to send Molly to weave from easily 20 feet away - half-way across our practice space. Wild.


----------



## CptJack

So, three notable things about class tonight - four if you count an actual agility thing.
1-) She PLAYBOWED at another dog. 
2-) Another dog left the course and ran RIGHT into her face and she did... nothing? As in, I ended up catching the dog myself. 
3-) She FLIPPED HER CRAP at the husband - didn't expect him to be there and just lost it. Got over it fast, jumped and wiggled at him, but - Well, LOL.

and actual agility thing -

4-) Holy crap that dog is fast. Her start line stay is pretty good, though! Thank god.


----------



## elrohwen

I *finally* set up a private agility lesson for Watson. Woohoo! There is a place in CT, about 75min from my house that I never even thought of. It is my nosework teacher's home training facility and I've been there a couple times, but it didn't click until a friend on FB (who has trained there forever) recommended it. I emailed last night and already got a response that I can meet with the head agility trainer next Thursday evening.

I was talking to another woman, the head trainer at the facility I took classes at, and she was so frustrating. She said evenings and weekends were out because the facility had group classes and trials, but she could do it at her house in her yard in the evening. That seemed promising, so I kept emailing her, but she would stop responding for a while, and then when she did respond she would suggest something like 3pm at the facility. I would nicely remind her that I worked until 5, and then she would go through the whole spiel again about how the facility was booked in the evenings. Yes, I know, that's why we were going to do it at your house! And then she would fall off the planet again and stop responding. Arg. So frustrating.

Wish us luck! The place we're going is outside (they have indoor space, but mostly do agility outside) which is going to be extra extra hard for Watson. I predict chaos. I really hope she looks at him and says "Oh, we can fix that". I feel like everybody else just tells me his foundations are broken and he will never be good at this stuff and I can try, but it's going to be frustrating and not really worth it and to just start right with the next dog. I know he can do this stuff, it's just that he can only do it at home - there has to be a way to transfer that to a training facility. He can't be some uniquely difficult dog.


----------



## CptJack

You know, I think at this stage I'd just refuse to be brushed off. I think one of the best things I've gotten from dog classes/performance in general is the ability to advocate for my dog. Sometimes that means 'ignore my dog' or 'don't touch my dog' being directed at other students or the general public. Sometimes it means telling the trainer that we're not doing a particular exercise because it's too much for my dog. Sometimes it means me telling the trainer what I actually need/need help with. 

I'm lucky to have a really, really, wonderful trainer who puts up with my sometimes intense social anxiety turning me awkward, my brain falling out my ear, and insane dogs, but who also really listens to me. That means if I say I want to try something, she's game. If I say I think something's a bad idea, she adjusts. And if I tell her that my dog is not REALLY a hooligan who doesn't have three brain cells to rub together but needs to be exposed to the environment a lot to work in it, she believes that, too. 

Granted, she's often the ones telling me my dogs aren't as bad as I think they are and she puts safety for EVERYONE first, for sure, but she listens. 

So you know, go in and TELL the person what the deal is, what his experience has been, what he can do at home and SPECIFICALLY what you want to work on. If they try and steam roll you just firm yourself up and tell them otherwise. You live with Watson. YOU have all the experience with training HIM. That makes you the expert on your dog.


----------



## MrsBoats

elrohwen said:


> I *finally* set up a private agility lesson for Watson. Woohoo! There is a place in CT, about 75min from my house that I never even thought of. It is my nosework teacher's home training facility and I've been there a couple times, but it didn't click until a friend on FB (who has trained there forever) recommended it. I emailed last night and already got a response that I can meet with the head agility trainer next Thursday evening.


Which one in CT?? Hamden?


----------



## elrohwen

Thanks for that. I will certainly try.

The last guy really knew his stuff, and he was really nice about everything he said, but the message I got from him was that doing anything with Watson would be such a crazy amount of work that it probably wasn't worth it. I would have to get him out to new, different places multiple times a week and basically make him listen to me, and once we'd done hours of work on that he might be able to work off leash in an agility class. I've been in classes, and I can guarantee that 90% of those people are not doing that much work with their dogs, and their dogs still work off leash relatively well. It's not like I haven't been taking him places and trying to make him pay attention to me his entire life, so the trainer's solution was stepping that up to boot camp levels basically. But then he also saw Watson's stressed out and shut down side from the very first day we walked in, so his advice and solutions were based on the dog in front of him, not the dog I usually see at class (the over stimulated crazy one who does want to work, but is also crazy).

I've worked with a lot of trainers now, mostly in group classes though, and none of them have been able to offer a solution for him, except the guy who said he had a solution but it would be an insane amount of work where our entire lives would be devoted to training, so I might as well retire Watson and move on with the puppy. I really hope the combination of a high level agility person plus private lessons will make the difference.

I mean, he's an idiot slow maturing boy dog who gets a bit stressy. This can't be a new problem in the world of dog training. 



MrsBoats said:


> Which one in CT?? Hamden?


No, Hamden's a bit far for me. It's Canine Sports Center in Goshen. Up near the NY border.


----------



## MrsBoats

Cool!!! I haven't heard of the one up in Goshen before.


----------



## CptJack

All right, guys, new rule (for me, applied by me): 

No more self-depreciating my dogs and myself. I don't do it so much online, but I have a major issue doing it in real world. I talk all of us DOWN, probably out of some twisted weird social conditioning thing that leaves me feeling like accepting a compliment is a major faux pas and a desire to avoid disappointment, but it's a horrible, horrible mental habit and I'm stopping it. It's disrespectful to the dogs, it KILLS my confidence, puts up walls that don't need to be there in all kinds of ways and it casts a negative light on EVERYTHING (the good gets dimmer, the bad gets worse). It has to stop. 

So, if any of y'all see me talking the dogs down in ways that extend beyond objective identification of a concrete problem, come kick me in the shins.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, and Intermediate starts 8-25. We may or may not make it to part of next week's class (we just don't know, and won't until then), but then we're off until then. Not sure what we're going to do after that, at this point. I'm still floundering pretty hard at how to move her forward from that point - not so much in the agility but in relation to the reactivity. She's gotten pretty used to the dogs she sees every week in class and it doesn't take long but I just don't know how to transfer that to a trial or practice setting, or even if it's possible. It worries me in particular because I do NOT want to be a hazard or distraction or problem for another dog or dogs. 

It's actually starting to stress me the heck out.


----------



## Laurelin

https://www.facebook.com/griffin.puro/videos/10205989035377912/

Around :43 you will see the very complex new cross.


----------



## kadylady

Laurelin said:


> https://www.facebook.com/griffin.puro/videos/10205989035377912/
> 
> Around :43 you will see the very complex new cross.


BAHHHHHH!! I saw that on FB yesterday....fantastic!!


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Oh, and Intermediate starts 8-25. We may or may not make it to part of next week's class (we just don't know, and won't until then), but then we're off until then. Not sure what we're going to do after that, at this point. I'm still floundering pretty hard at how to move her forward from that point - not so much in the agility but in relation to the reactivity. She's gotten pretty used to the dogs she sees every week in class and it doesn't take long but I just don't know how to transfer that to a trial or practice setting, or even if it's possible. It worries me in particular because I do NOT want to be a hazard or distraction or problem for another dog or dogs.
> 
> It's actually starting to stress me the heck out.


I guess I don't see how it's that much different.

Also, not sure about Molly because they are all different, but most reactive-ish dogs I know are far better at trials than in classes. Watson is an idiot in class, but very well behaved and quiet at shows. When there are a million dogs, it's hard to single out one and bark at it. And most people at shows and trials are better about keeping their dog from staring at your dog vs people in most classes. I wouldn't worry about it that much since you say she's fine in class and not bad in general.


----------



## CptJack

She may be fine. A lot of my anxiety is centered around how unpredictable she seems to be about stuff. She's never really bad though, you're right, and I'm not going to know what I'm actually dealing with regarding that until I'm there and dealing with it. I still want to chew my fingernails off, though.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> She may be fine. A lot of my anxiety is centered around how unpredictable she seems to be about stuff. She's never really bad though, you're right, and I'm not going to know what I'm actually dealing with regarding that until I'm there and dealing with it. I still want to chew my fingernails off, though.


There are so many reactive dogs who do agility. I just don't think anybody will bat an eye even if she is reacting and lunging. As long as you appear to have her under control and aren't letting her roam around on the end of a 6ft leash meeting all of the other dogs (which you obviously wouldn't do) then people aren't going to judge. 

Also, you've had such success with her so fast, that I almost wonder if she doesn't have true reactivity and if it was a growing up phase. In that case, I would worry even less as she will probably continue to improve on her own.

ETA: I'm so ho-hum about this kind of thing because dog shows are one of the environments where I'm *least* concerned about Watson's behavior. If I see one random dog coming up the rail trail and staring at him hard, then yeah, I do kind of brace for impact and get the treats ready. At dog shows I just walk around like a normal person and it's really not a big deal. Maybe some dogs are more reactive in that type of environment, but I think it's common to be *less* reactive.


----------



## CptJack

According to the internet a dog can not be reactive if it exhibits the behavior at 6 months old or younger. I don't know why the internet says that, but I will admit that her starting as young as she did and improving as fast as she has still makes me think it's just some stage or other behavioral quirk. 

We'll see how she does when she gets there. You've calmed down and reminded me that in a place like a petstore she's fine, even. She's been to flyball tournaments and been fine - and at the agility trial we can work out of our car if we need to, which provides even more distance and quiet place for her. I'm probably just stressing it because I don't like unknowns and transitions.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I'm probably just stressing it because I don't like unknowns and transitions.


Can't argue with that! I'm the same way. 

I'm stressed about my agility lesson next week. We have to work outside, and judging from the pictures of the site it's a fenced arena out in the woods. Watson is going to be *nuts*. And she's going to tell me the same thing as everyone else - his foundations are terrible and broken and all wrong. At least in my imagination. And then I will be frustrated because I've spent so much time and 3 years trying to do all of the foundation stuff right just to have one more trainer tell me I've clearly done nothing. I've done nothing but classes with him for years, and just in the past 6 months we've tried a couple training facilities and instructors, and every time I get so nervous.


----------



## CptJack

Follow that up in your imagination by telling her his foundations are NOT broken, but what she's seeing is not the dog you see and if you can't work him away from home you can't improve on what she's seeing. Or just stomping your foot and screaming loudly, because I would be NUTS after hearing that for a while and KNOWING I know better.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Follow that up in your imagination by telling her his foundations are NOT broken, but what she's seeing is not the dog you see and if you can't work him away from home you can't improve on what she's seeing. Or just stomping your foot and screaming loudly, because I would be NUTS after hearing that for a while and KNOWING I know better.


Hahaha. Why yes, it is driving me nuts. Every time a trainer tells me that I want to say "But but but! I read all the books, I trained all the stuff I could find, I took all the classes!" Obviously we are missing some key component (which is why I am busting my butt to find private lessons and pay lots of money for them) but just hearing over and over that I completely screwed up his foundations and he's just broken now is starting to piss me off. That's why I always retreat back to our usual place with obedience classes. The trainers might think he's a bit nuts, and a difficult dog to work (because he gets so overstimulated in group classes), but they know all the work I've done with him and see a lot of progress, and they would never tell me he has no foundations and is broken - they would try to help me fix it.


----------



## CptJack

Total aside - there is new, red, bolded, commentary on the website about dogs not being aggressive to dogs and people and my paranoid side would love to assume Molly as the course, but. It's not Molly. Probably. Okay, I might be paranoid enough to ask. (I am paranoid enough to ask).

Now, the age thing on the website might be her, though once I sat down and counted I was wrong. She was like... 2 days from 8 months old when she started which is the age anyway. I keep wanting to make it 6 months old, but that's because in my head she's a year old and she's been doing this for six months. So she started like 3 days shy of her 8 month birthday (her birthday is may 22, she started toward the end of Jan, and I SWEAR I heard 7 or so months when I asked about Kylie).

(I may be having PMS.)


----------



## CptJack

And then I got an answer and nearly cried. Seriously, I love this woman. (Also I manage my dog well, make good decisions with her and she doesn't feel like she has to babysit, which is a HUGE compliment for me).

Elrohwen? Keep advocating, keep looking, and keep insisting. Get people in your club involved if you need to, to help you. Because times like this I realize that a good trainer is worth their weight in *gold*. You just need to find someone to listen to you, and I am absolutely sure that person exists. In your area. In agility. And if it's not this person on Thursday, I might scream with you.


----------



## LoMD13

elrohwen said:


> Can't argue with that! I'm the same way.
> 
> I'm stressed about my agility lesson next week. We have to work outside, and judging from the pictures of the site it's a fenced arena out in the woods. Watson is going to be *nuts*. And she's going to tell me the same thing as everyone else - his foundations are terrible and broken and all wrong. At least in my imagination. And then I will be frustrated because I've spent so much time and 3 years trying to do all of the foundation stuff right just to have one more trainer tell me I've clearly done nothing. I've done nothing but classes with him for years, and just in the past 6 months we've tried a couple training facilities and instructors, and every time I get so nervous.


If they're being that negative and unsupportive-- this sounds much more like their issue than yours. Most of dog training is working with the people, not the dogs. My dog is FAR from an agility prodigy, but I've never felt diminished by any trainer ever. I really hope you can find a good one!


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> If they're really being that negative and unsupportive-- this sounds much more like their issue than yours. Most of dog training is working with the people, not the dogs. My dog is FAR from an agility prodigy, but I've never felt diminished by any trainer ever. I really hope you can find a good one!


This is my thing. My agility instructor is not huge - neither is the club - but she is so, so willing to talk and help and adjust and adapt. I can not tell you how many times I've heard 'you work with the dog you have' and seen her make on the fly adaptations to make something work for that dog/handler team. I've come close to quitting a couple of times, even, but have been encouraged to go on. Not pushed, but encouraged, and I'm not sure she's always aware she's even done it. Just because she's so very 'this isn't insurmountable, let's try THIS'. 

The only times I've seen her not continue to work with a dog (successfully!) and owner were when the dog or owner were a danger to themselves or the rest of the class. She's good. She's done quite high levels of stuff. But most of what she's good at is just being a good people person, and a good dog person, and reading both well enough to find something that works for a team. That might be training space and equipment, it might be highly distracted dogs, it might be dogs who are super shy and fearful, but imagining her giving someone that kind of attitude/shutting them down/telling them they'd broken their dog and to give up/start over with a new puppy? 

I just can't begin to imagine it. 

Add that to what agility and her patience has done for Kylie and I honestly think I'd crawl through broken glass for that woman. Not that we're best friends and not to be creepy, but she's just. Good. Really, really, good. At agility, but also at dogs and at people (I would have fled off day 3 if I'd been met with attitude or judgement). Which at this stage I think is the. most. important. thing.


----------



## Laurelin

Today is the day!!!!!! O___O


----------



## CptJack

We're all rooting for you - and waiting around for the late night/tomorrow report! But mostly rooting for you!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Best of luck!!! Thinking of you!


----------



## elrohwen

Most of the people have said it in a nice way at least. Like they weren't mean, but they said it in this kind of "I'll be honest with you ... " way. One woman just clearly didn't understand anything about positive training methods and was very old school obedience, so to her it made no sense that I walked him in a prong collar (to control pulling) but didn't administer a strong correction when he didn't sit immediately (because he was nervous about the location and was looking around). She told me flat out that she really didn't understand the training I had done with him and how it was supposed to work, and said I had tons of holes in my foundation work (basically because I didn't correct him, hard, for not complying, or for failing a proofing exercise). That was the most miserable lesson of my life and I felt so bad for both of us after that.

The other guy was more balanced, with lots and lots of positive also layered with consequences. He did not recommend things like popping the collar when Watson didn't sit, but he did think Watson was super low drive and since he didn't have enough drive and shut down at any correction, he didn't know what to do with him. This was the trainer who basically said we would need to be in training bootcamp to make any progress - working for every single meal, if he didn't work he didn't eat, we had to visit new places almost every day and basically make him pay some attention to me, etc. He said it would take so much work that I would struggle to do it with a full time job, and definitely couldn't do it while also training a puppy, so I might as well move on and just start fresh with the new dog. He was an IPO person, so I think a soft stressy dog was just not his style and he wasn't really sure what to do with that combination. He said my only options were to build his drive a lot (the whole working for every bite of food thing), or use pure compulsion to make him do stuff, which he didn't recommend because it would make Watson miserable and the last thing he wants is a miserable dog. So at least he wouldn't go down that road, but laying out the options like that makes me think there *has* to be another way. I am not interested in living my life as training and making him work for everything all the time at every moment - it wouldn't be enjoyable for either of us and I don't have the time for that either. And obviously I'm not interested in just forcing him to do stuff.

When we took agility classes I liked the trainer, but she just couldn't help us in the <10min of activity we got in a typical class. I think she could have helped us 1 on 1, but obviously I've had a lot of struggles getting anybody to work with me 1 on 1. I like our main obedience trainer, but she doesn't do agility and owns huskies who rarely work off leash, so she doesn't have a lot of skills for teaching off leash stuff and isn't up to date on what techniques agility people are using. She is good with dogs and believes in us though, and never puts me down. I would have done more work with her but she's busy every evening and does lots of shows on weekends so we just couldn't work out a time until winter.


----------



## elrohwen

Good luck Laurelin and Hank!


----------



## kadylady

Good luck Laurelin and Hank!! Have a blast!!


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Today is the day!!!!!! O___O


Good luck!! Hope it goes perfect for you!!


----------



## pawsaddict

Go Laurelin and Hank!!!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> Today is the day!!!!!! O___O


Good luck! Have fun. You will do great!


----------



## LoMD13

So excited to hear the Hank report!


----------



## CptJack

Speed circles with weaves. This is my new thing with Kylie. It's surprisingly *fun*. Less surprisingly, it's working for collection and driving out of the poles. Consistency isn't quite where I want it off side, yet, but we're getting better. And so, so, much fun. Did I mention fun?

(Still hanging around waiting for report on Hank, too, btw, though I realize it's gonna be late/early)


----------



## kadylady

Well.....another break for Zoey.  Instead of trialing today we were at the vet. She was all of the sudden super stiff and sore yesterday, really walking off this time. Thankfully I was able to text our vet last night and she made time for us today. Definitely something going on in her stifle area causing her muscles to continuously become so sore. Possibly something related to her A frame fall in November. Like yelp in pain sore . Poor girly. She's on pain mess and muscle relaxers for 2 weeks and then a recheck and we will go from there. I've pretty much decided that we are going to at least take the whole month of August off regardless just to take the time to get this under control and get her reconditioned.


----------



## Laurelin

Well we got home at 3 am. LOL And back tomorrow. 

Hank was... a baby 19 month old boy dog. xD Hahaha. It wasn't horrible but he was very very over the top excited about how his best dog and people friends were at agility. Like allllll his BFFs were there being distracting as well as new intense/high drive dogs that were very interesting to him. In fact it's 3 am and he's STILL wound up. So basically we got three Es and a NQ. He even ran out of the snookers ring and did donuts in the gamblers ring for a good 15 seconds. In which case I was complimented on how fast he was... while running around the empty ring. 

Anyways, I did get a video of standard before it got dark. The beginning was a bit of a snafu.  He ran around the jump twice, ran off to check out the judge, went to go visit my classmate who was setting bars, missed the chute, ducked between my legs, jumped and bit, ran under the tire. Basically was a hooligan. But there was a nice teeter there, he got his weaves on the second try great, and there was one line that we executed really well though we dropped a bar (it was like several seconds after he jumped, weird). 

The other runs I didn't tape but snookers was wild. He checked in and out on both snookers and gamblers. Gamblers he nailed 12 weaves twice but then ran off around a bunch of jumps and didn't do the gamble at all. (Distracted by the table with scribes and stuff). Jumpers was actually pretty good. He ran off once but I got him back really well. He skipped two jumps so we didn't Q but he ran pretty nice there. 

He probably would have won Mr Congeniality. HE made even more friends and admirers. He gets really over the top around some of the BCs and other high drive dogs. And by the last run he was screaming when we were walking to the ring. 

Luckily the judge was a cattle dog person. xD She loved him and told me about her ACD at home and how Hank is very ACD in his debut. 

Maybe tomorrow he'll be more into the game but he's a baby. Very much a baby.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh and Hank thinks trials are very very fun. His face afterwards was just crazy happy and excited.


----------



## kadylady

That sounds like a very long and very fun day!!! Congrats on Hank's debut! Yay for happy baby dog!!!


----------



## CptJack

That sounds exhausting, but it also sounds like everyone had a great time! Total success in my book, and I hope that today was awesome, too~


----------



## CptJack

Molly and Kylie are working the same exercises right now, and it's weirding me out a little bit. I mean, Molly's not doing ALL THE THINGS or anything, but when it comes to what we're actively working on (weaves in sequences), they're ... not all that far apart. Kylie's a little more consistent, but that's about it. 

Wasn't Molly just a tiny baby?


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin, sounds like a GREAT first trial for Hank! Happy baby dog that did a few things well? That sounds like a huge win to me!


----------



## Laurelin

Thanks! I am so so feeling on it. It's frustrating because in class he does everything but he was so all over the place. Tonight he got tired and his zooming was worse. So that was a bummer.

IDK, gave us a good realistic look into things and I realize we need more work. Not sure HOW to replicate a trial setting really and that much excitement and that many dogs. 

Plus side he nailed his weaves again today. We'll get there one day.


----------



## CptJack

> Not sure HOW to replicate a trial setting really and that much excitement and that many dogs.


I think, kind of like me with Molly, at some point you just have to accept that the dog's going to lose it at trials for a while and see the trial as training and exposure. Then again, like you, I also can't think of anything that comes close to a trial setting. I kind of wish there were more show 'n goes/fun matches around though, just as a stepping stone. 

---

Kylie's lesson today was pretty good. It wasn't spectacular, but it wasn't bad. Learned something about NADAC rules re: barrels and basically NQed us on the practice course by sending her around it twice (she went a direction I didn't intend the first time so I resent, but it doesn't actually matter which way she goes), and the instructor called the run pretty, which was nice. Her weaves at home are still a LOT better than at practice, but that's not a huge surprise. Mildly concerned about how she's going to do with them in the next trial, since the LAST trial was the point she went 'Nope, can't do it' re: weaves and we ended up starting all over. 

No lesson next weekend and we are going to end up missing Molly's final class in this session. Hopefully lesson on the weekend of the 1st/2nd, and then vacation and off a couple of weeks. Lesson hopefully again 22/23. Molly starts back the 25th, Kylie has a trial September 12-13. So basically, we're taking a break and have like one lesson in the next month. Probably not going to work a whole lot at home before we're back, either. Kylie seems like she could use a break.


----------



## LoMD13

No run throughs any where near you guys? There are a few places around here that do them. I've kind of been using NADAC and TDAA (well less so now that they've been running outside) as "practice" venues. I like the USDAA courses and atmosphere best, but NADAC and TDAA have been fantastic places to get more confidence in trials. We'll see if our success rubs over into USDAA!


----------



## CptJack

We have club practices/run-throughs once a week for a month leading up to the trial, but only for the dogs entered in the trial. I'll still take heavy advantage of it once it's time for that with Molly, though, and I do think it will help. 

Total aside, I was waffling on the January Trial and thought of you. Because I was waffling about it because it's held INside and I don't know how the dogs are going to do with that. Our classes are inside, but other than that everything's been all outside, all the time! I'm backwards, but I'm kind of scared of it.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> We have club practices/run-throughs once a week for a month leading up to the trial, but only for the dogs entered in the trial. I'll still take heavy advantage of it once it's time for that with Molly, though, and I do think it will help.
> 
> Total aside, I was waffling on the January Trial and thought of you. Because I was waffling about it because it's held INside and I don't know how the dogs are going to do with that. Our classes are inside, but other than that everything's been all outside, all the time! I'm backwards, but I'm kind of scared of it.


Haha! We're opposites. Agility for the most part in New England is held indoors. My club's not air conditioned, so they just don't have trials in the summer. i was a huge huge fan of the air conditioned, turf venue! I can't wait to do USDAA there. 

I tried a barn hunt practice that was outside a few weeks ago with the idea that "if we can do this, we can maybe sign up for a few of the outdoor TDAA trials." But as it turned out, we can't do it ha.


----------



## CptJack

Man, I would enjoy air-conditioning - or climate control at all, really. Most of our stuff is outside, obviously, but even the classes that are indoors has minimal heating and no cooling aside from fans and garage bay doors that can be opened (and blocked with fencing), and the January trial is in a LIVESTOCK arena. I've just made peace with the fact that we're going to be hot or cold at every last one of the things, regardless of season (though honestly they're mostly spring/fall - this Jan thing is new). 

I'm making some assumptions in saying Kylie's going to be more distracted and stressed inside than outside (since she hasn't done a thing indoors in over a year now), but I know Molly's more at ease and less distracted outdoors. I don't know if it's just the stress level of the confined space with dogs or familiarity, or what, but it's kind of funny how backward I am about the whole thing. 

Though, seriously, give me climate control and turf and the dogs would just have to learn to cope. Much, much more pleasant.


----------



## MrsBoats

Climate control and turf is pretty much what is the norm now in New England....thank god. I was at a AKC trial at the soccer place in RI over the weekend...yesterday was in the 90's and humid.  Ocean and I would have died trying to run 4 agility classes in that weather. Some people whine about the "good ol' days" when agility was outside....but I find they really don't mind being inside when weather gets like how it was here yesterday and today. 

Anyway...I am so happy to announce...I FINALLY HAVE AN AKC EXCELLENT AGILITY DOG!!!!!    Little Mr. O earned his Open FAST title Saturday!! Ocean is my first AKC Excellent dog despite me playing in agility for a bunch of years now. Lars has always been very challenging in agility....so the Kidd-O at the age of 3 got farther than his genius brother did in AKC agility. 










Unfortunately...I don't have video of that run. But I have video of two really, really sweet NQ runs from the weekend. 

Open JWW:






Open Std:






Love this little rocket rottweiler!!!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats MrsBoats and O!!!! Fabulous runs! Darn that dog walk in Open Std, that was a beautiful run!!!!! Love the reverse spins! Congrats on being Mr. Excellent O!


----------



## LoMD13

Congratulations MrsBoats and O!!! That guy is a rock star. 

We're going to the soccer place next weekend for NADAC, I love that venue!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Looking so great! Congratulations! Wonderful!


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Well we got home at 3 am. LOL And back tomorrow.
> 
> Hank was... a baby 19 month old boy dog. xD Hahaha. It wasn't horrible but he was very very over the top excited about how his best dog and people friends were at agility. Like allllll his BFFs were there being distracting as well as new intense/high drive dogs that were very interesting to him. In fact it's 3 am and he's STILL wound up. So basically we got three Es and a NQ. He even ran out of the snookers ring and did donuts in the gamblers ring for a good 15 seconds. In which case I was complimented on how fast he was... while running around the empty ring.
> 
> Anyways, I did get a video of standard before it got dark. The beginning was a bit of a snafu. He ran around the jump twice, ran off to check out the judge, went to go visit my classmate who was setting bars, missed the chute, ducked between my legs, jumped and bit, ran under the tire. Basically was a hooligan. But there was a nice teeter there, he got his weaves on the second try great, and there was one line that we executed really well though we dropped a bar (it was like several seconds after he jumped, weird).
> 
> The other runs I didn't tape but snookers was wild. He checked in and out on both snookers and gamblers. Gamblers he nailed 12 weaves twice but then ran off around a bunch of jumps and didn't do the gamble at all. (Distracted by the table with scribes and stuff). Jumpers was actually pretty good. He ran off once but I got him back really well. He skipped two jumps so we didn't Q but he ran pretty nice there.
> 
> He probably would have won Mr Congeniality. HE made even more friends and admirers. He gets really over the top around some of the BCs and other high drive dogs. And by the last run he was screaming when we were walking to the ring.
> 
> Luckily the judge was a cattle dog person. xD She loved him and told me about her ACD at home and how Hank is very ACD in his debut.
> 
> Maybe tomorrow he'll be more into the game but he's a baby. Very much a baby.


Sounds like everything was positive, I am sure he will get used to everything and stop the zoomies. Glad he likes it!! When is your next trial with him?


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> We have club practices/run-throughs once a week for a month leading up to the trial, but only for the dogs entered in the trial. I'll still take heavy advantage of it once it's time for that with Molly, though, and I do think it will help.
> 
> Total aside, I was waffling on the January Trial and thought of you. Because I was waffling about it because it's held INside and I don't know how the dogs are going to do with that. Our classes are inside, but other than that everything's been all outside, all the time! I'm backwards, but I'm kind of scared of it.


I think Belle would be way to distracted outside. Everything here is inside in air-conditioning as we use a rubberized floor.


----------



## dogsule

MrsBoats said:


> Climate control and turf is pretty much what is the norm now in New England....thank god. I was at a AKC trial at the soccer place in RI over the weekend...yesterday was in the 90's and humid.  Ocean and I would have died trying to run 4 agility classes in that weather. Some people whine about the "good ol' days" when agility was outside....but I find they really don't mind being inside when weather gets like how it was here yesterday and today.
> 
> Anyway...I am so happy to announce...I FINALLY HAVE AN AKC EXCELLENT AGILITY DOG!!!!!    Little Mr. O earned his Open FAST title Saturday!! Ocean is my first AKC Excellent dog despite me playing in agility for a bunch of years now. Lars has always been very challenging in agility....so the Kidd-O at the age of 3 got farther than his genius brother did in AKC agility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately...I don't have video of that run. But I have video of two really, really sweet NQ runs from the weekend.
> 
> Open JWW:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open Std:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love this little rocket rottweiler!!!


Congrats on the new FAST title!! I thought your runs looked great!!


----------



## pawsaddict

Congrats, MrsBoats and Ocean!!

And so glad that everything went relatively well, Laurelin. It sounds like Hank had a blast. Once he gets the zoomies out of his system, he'll be unstoppable!


----------



## elrohwen

Congrats to MrsBoats and Ocean on the Excellent title! That is awesome!

And congrats to Laurelin and Hank to a great debut!


----------



## CptJack

I'm going to get to go to Molly's class tomorrow! I am so excited about that - I really had made peace with not going but really wanted to go to the last class in the session. It's got our little send to obstacle from distance' competition and it's just the last class, you know? I want to get to wrap it up properly.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats MrsBoats and Ocean! You seriously have my most favorite Rotties ever. They blow me away with their athletic abilities.


----------



## CptJack

Aw, Jeeze, how did I miss that? Congrats MsBoats and O!


----------



## MrsBoats

ROFL!!!! No worries about missing all of that!! 

Thanks you guys!!! I am beyond thrilled!!!


----------



## MrsBoats

elrohwen said:


> Congrats to MrsBoats and Ocean on the Excellent title! That is awesome!
> 
> And congrats to Laurelin and Hank to a great debut!


He's in Excellent....he got that Open title. I can't tell you how relieving it is to have that inability of getting into Excellent head game gone now.


----------



## elrohwen

MrsBoats said:


> He's in Excellent....he got that Open title. I can't tell you how relieving it is to have that inability of getting into Excellent head game gone now.


Yeah, whoops, realized that after I posted. Haha.


----------



## CptJack

Class was awesome and fun. Molly won (well tied to win) and got a new squeaky toy that she's enthusiastically murdering right now. Did well with our little course (which had a CROSS this time!), did fine with other dogs (play bowed at a couple of them) and was just really good. Was over excited by her salmon cookie end of session reward and got doubles because she was so into it, and won her squeaky toy which was also exciting. 

I also got a lead on a new (to me and less talked about) method of dealing with aggression and reactivity that has had a couple of papers published and some presence online, though not a ton. I'm going to dig in and research and see if I can find a way to implement. Trainer said reading it she thought Molly would be a great candidate for it for a number of reasons, and from what I heard tonight I agree. Whether or not I can find someone to implement it with me remains to be seen (need at least a steady dog and helper, would prefer a trainer).


And that is officially it for us for a few weeks. There will be relaxation, chilling, beach dogs, and a good time.


----------



## CptJack

Also, may I just say that watching someone _consistently_ tell their dog to get out when it needs to take the obstacle directly in front of them, and then get frustrated with the dog for, you know, moving laterally away from them and out of line with the obstacle, is the most frustrating thing *EVER*

That bit of a vent out, looks like most people are carrying on from our beginner class. That means Molly, and ACD, two terrier-xs, a swedish farm dog, and a chi. There may be more, but for an intermediate class that's *HUGE*. I hope everyone ends up going on to compete.


----------



## LoMD13

Something pretty cool happened in class this week-- for the very first time, I had a couple of blind crosses planned and I wasn't able to get ahead of her in time. When I tried to run it again, I had to actually start her off farther away from the first jump and sprint as fast as I could to get ahead of her. That doesn't sound like much for people with fast dogs, but it was pretty cool for my tiny Shih Tzu. Very much looking forward to NADAc this weekend!


----------



## pawsaddict

Oh my gosh, I just want agility classes to start up again so bad! After our last class ended, I decided to kind of take an agility break with Nova for a while (until our next class starts up at the beginning of August). But I just can't make it. I need my agility fix....bad. I got the agility shakes!!! 

We are totally going to do some practicing tonight. Two weeks off is a good break, right? It's not like Nova really needed the break...


----------



## CptJack

We don't have *classes* again until August 25. I'd make remarks about going crazy, but we've got some non-agility training meet-ups and Kylie still has lessons (not this weekend but there should be at least some in there) and if we can work out scheduling around my vacation Molly has the reactivity stuff.... So, maybe I'll survive. Maybe.


----------



## LoMD13

Some video from our NADAC trial yesterday! Most importantly, we had 3 fast and HAPPY runs. For a dog who has been stressy at trials, getting consistent happy has been amazing. For whatever reason, she kept running by that red tunnel in all 3 of her runs. She's never done that before, so I'm thinking/hoping it was a flukey thing or it looked/smelled weird. Still, we ended the day with 2 out of 3 Q's (In Regular and Tunnelers) and a first and second place!


----------



## elrohwen

LoMD13 said:


> Some video from our NADAC trial yesterday! Most importantly, we had 3 fast and HAPPY runs. For a dog who has been stressy at trials, getting consistent happy has been amazing. For whatever reason, she kept running by that red tunnel in all 3 of her runs. She's never done that before, so I'm thinking/hoping it was a flukey thing or it looked/smelled weird. Still, we ended the day with 2 out of 3 Q's (In Regular and Tunnelers) and a first and second place!


She is so freaking cute! Congrats!


----------



## dogsule

LoMD13 said:


> Some video from our NADAC trial yesterday! Most importantly, we had 3 fast and HAPPY runs. For a dog who has been stressy at trials, getting consistent happy has been amazing. For whatever reason, she kept running by that red tunnel in all 3 of her runs. She's never done that before, so I'm thinking/hoping it was a flukey thing or it looked/smelled weird. Still, we ended the day with 2 out of 3 Q's (In Regular and Tunnelers) and a first and second place!


How fun!! I had a stress free trial yesterday too!!


----------



## dogsule

So this past weekend was a trial weekend. I just did Sunday AKC Standard and JWW. The last two trials Belle has pooped in the ring during one of her runs so my goal was no pooping!! Thankfully we achieved that goal! Sadly no Q's this weekend but Belle was in a very good mood, not stressed and just waggy tailed all day. This was our first run in Open JWW and our first full run in Open Standard (as she pooped last time after two or three obstacles!). Hard to believe I am not in Novice anymore. Anyway I totally messed up our standard run. Belle missed a weave and then backweaved so we were ok yet with those two faults. However when we got to the teeter I moved to the end as sometimes needs to be bribed to make it bang...hit and miss on whether or not she will come right down or not, she never fully stops but slows down quite a bit sometimes. Well because I went to the end of the teeter the last jump was right behind me and when I turned to send her over it I was too close and she ran right by the last jump. Ugh! Totally my fault!!

In JWW as you will see in the video after the weaved you took sort of a 180 turn back to a jump and I didn't lead Belle out enough and she turned and went back through the first weave pole. No wrong courses on JWW so immediate NQ but that was our only fault. It was a fun course. 

Here is the video...


or the flickr link...
https://flic.kr/p/vztVUn

our next trial is the end of August but our regular classes end next week so will have to either drive an hour for class on Wednesdays or not do classes and still try the trial. Will see how it goes. Our classes are held in a fair building in town and we have to move out beginning of Aug until mid Sept.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats LoMD and dogsule!! Great weekends for you both! Really nice runs!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations to LoMD and dogsule! You guys look great! Nice runs!


----------



## pawsaddict

Congrats LoMD and dogsule! You all look great out there 

Nova and I just came off our agility "mini-break". SO made us an adjustable teeter yesterday, which was super exciting! Nova is pretty sketchy at the tipping point of the teeter, so I wanted one that I could have set pretty low to help her get her more comfortable. So we got to practicing that, and she did really well. I have it set at 12" now (8" was a piece of cake), and she is driving for the teeter with excitement all on her own! She still stiffens a bit when it starts to tip, but that is MUCH better than before. So proud of her.

And she just wowed be so much this morning with the little sequence that I set up. Nice contacts, into jumps, then right into weaves with speed! She did it all perfectly, and it was so cool it see!!


----------



## LoMD13

Thanks guys! I've been so proud of how fast the little nugget has been running at these NADAC trials. I never really expected very many Q's based off their hard course times and having a pretty slow dog. It also cracks me up how many people came up to me and Lola and said "What....IS that?" "Has anybody ever said she looks like an ewok?"


----------



## CptJack

I am thisclose to pulling Molly out of formal sports everything based on one encounter with an idiot. I'm not going to, I don't think, but I *swear to god*.


----------



## pawsaddict

Oh no...what happened


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Oh no...what happened


Check the training goals thread. 

I did however realize this woman was a guest of someone there, rather than a regular part of the club so. That makes me feel better, I just. No.


----------



## Laurelin

Go Lo! . I love her. So much. 

Hank and I had an interesting class to say the least. Probably the scariest agility moment yet. 

Short version: 

At our turn hank freaked about the owner of the facility standing ringside. So we had trial redux where he was weird and barking at her. So we went to meet her and he was fine after

So at our turn finally hank came out at a speed I have never ever seen out of him. He is fast usually. He was bat out of hell at this run. I can't even describe accurately. I have never seem him do anything like it. I was not expecting the speed. The first obstacles were a three jump serp to a tunnel to an a frame to some other stuff. 

It was good through the tunnel but he was blazing and I was trying to adjust. He came out the tunnel and hit the a frame. I am yelling feet! Feet! Feet! Trying to slow him down. I look up behind me and I swear to god he is flying about 2' over the 5'6" a frame. He is vertical with his rear feet over his head. I think I swore loudly and I hear the facility owner saying 'oh my god!' I stopped cause I couldn't even. I don't know if it was because he was so jacked for the run and the speed. He didn't do it again and has never done it before. Scared me to death. 

The ridgeback girl said he did not hit the blue (ironically did hit the yellow) on the way up or down the a frame and he was at least a foot- foot and a half above the top. I couldn't tell from where I was. He hit the yellow on the way down and landed a 2o 2o. I'm afraid he's gonna kill himself pulling stunts like that. 

I have NEVER seen him so jacked at agility. Not so good.


----------



## kadylady

Hank! Respect the A frame dude! Take it from Zoey, who is sidelined for the 3rd time in less than a year! Ugh, so scary! I put up with no shenanigans on the AF ever since Zoey's fall. I still replay that in my mind. 

Speaking of which, I'm trying really hard to not be super bummed about having to pull our entries from our clubs trial this weekend....but I'm so bummed!!! Club trials are my favorite and I will be there all day, 2 days, watching everyone else run, and no running for us. Wah! Zoey has an appointment tomorrow with our vet after 12 days on meds...I'm anxious to see what she thinks and get whatever this stupid injury is fingered out!

My instructor, who is the best friend ever, is letting me use her dog in class so I don't have to miss out on the rest of it. He is really super awesome and really pushes me. And is a slight glimpse of what I may hopefully have coming with Skye. That helps a little....


----------



## DogTheGreat

Just had my second agility class with my dog. She was such a stinker haha. I think I was jinxed because last week another person in the class commented on how she was "the best behaved 8mo old". 

Bopped the instructor in the face a couple of times, submissively peed for the instructor, ripped up part of the makeshift target the instructor was letting us use (decided it looked fun enough to try to play with after _every time_ I needed her to target), barked back at me more than a few times, and she bloodied up my hand a bit taking rewards y'ouch. On the bright side, she is becoming okay with the teeter and has no issues with the tunnels like some of the other dogs. She did however take issue with a couple of the other dogs in class at different points (she doesn't have a great history with other dogs), but thankfully she was very easy to redirect and I don't foresee it becoming a problem with a bit of precautionary steps. 

So far, I'm enjoying agility myself and can definitely see myself at least trying out competition when the time comes.


----------



## Laurelin

Looking back Hank might have been excessively worked up because he had been very suspicious of the owner of the facility standing there watching. He seems to occasionally have a lot of 'weirdness' issues for lack of a better word. He was barking and spooking and growling at her. Only people who are standing outside the ring without a dog. Gotta figure out a way to convince him that's normal and ok....

So at his turn we skipped it to go meet the people standing ringside. They gave him treats and then he was ok with them being there. Then when I set him up he kept breaking his stay. So I kept re-setting him. I am trying to avoid 'creeperness' and trying to enforce stays and sticking his contacts because he wants to gooooo soooooo badddddd. lol He is starting to cheat.

So I'm wondering if the stress of being weirded out then having to hold it in as I reset him was what caused his brain to fall out and him go at insane dog speed and almost kill himself on the A frame. I really am not sure how to slow him down. I could just feel he was off when the run started, you know? I mean... I WANT fast but I don't want kamikaze suicidal fast....? I am shocked he did not do a flip over the A frame. That's what I thought was happening when I looked back.


----------



## pawsaddict

Holy Hank! Glad he didn't get hurt.


----------



## CptJack

I just filled out the premium for September's trial. They're apparently offering Intro Regular at this club, and I am not going to lie - I was tempted. It's a full titling level in NADAC, but the thing is... we're past it. As in, there'd be no challenge and very little risk of us not succeeding/getting that entire title in a weekend and I'm not sure it would MEAN anything to me at that rate, you know? 

And please understand, I'm not being arrogant. The intro courses have no weaves, no discriminations, fewer obstacles, and at most 2 crosses (they tend to be horse shoe or S shaped). If we were talking about Molly, I'd be all over this as a fairly easy way to get her into a trial environment and see what she could do, but Kylie? Kylie hasn't Qed in novice yet, but we've done so much more than this stuff and our misses were tiny, tiny things. We are capable of running a clean novice course, and then some. We were before busting our tails all summer. 

Going back just feels like cheating. 

Gotta admit, though, it's a LITTLEBIT tempting. Especially just to see how fast she could go.

Also FYI: We entered 2 rounds of Regular and Tunnelers on each day. So, we'll see how that goes. Still have to print it off and send it and our check in, but that'll happen end of this week and then we're set until time to go. (I AM EXCITED - especially since there will be a home trial in October.)


----------



## Kyllobernese

Just printed off some Agility entry forums for our trial at the end of August and two more in September. Haven't decided yet which dogs I will enter other that Remmy. I have started working on Lucy (my other Shih Tzu x Maltese) on our own equipment at my sisters and I work Kris, the Dobe, on the equipment in at our arena in town so could possibly have both of them in also.


----------



## LoMD13

Good luck with Kylie! Those are the same 3 runs me and Lola dog usually enter. We haven't done a whole weekend yet though!


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Good luck with Kylie! Those are the same 3 runs me and Lola dog usually enter. We haven't done a whole weekend yet though!


Regular and Tunnelers are my happy place right now. Sometimes it's 2 of each in a day, so we do 4 runs, but that's about her max even when two of them are tunnelers (even she seems to consider those runs pure joy and fun rather than stress). I keep almost wanting to go back to Touch 'n' Go and Weavers, and I wouldn't mind trying Chances. Jumpers is still kind of 'meh' to me (the courses confuse me - no landmarks!) but. Eventually. Maybe one of the game trials I'll branch out again.

Meanwhile, regular and tunnelers and I AM SO READY TO TRIAL SOME MORE, OMFG.


----------



## dogsule

This reminds me I need to print out and send in my entry for the trial the end of August. I am going to do FAST this time just for the heck of it along with the normal Standard and JWW. I so wish I could do both days of the trials but I usually work on Sundays and I have to take off two Sundays already in August.

On another note, our local class has one more session and then will be in hiatus until mid to end of Sept. Ugh! We rent a fair building to do the agility in and our local fair is the end of Aug/beginning of Sept. However I asked my trainer and she is going to let me borrow the teeter for that time so I can work with Belle on it....thinking about maybe borrowing the weaves too, not sure though. Belle isn't afraid of the teeter like she used to be however I usually need to bribe her somewhat to come down. Sometime she pauses or stops at the midpoint and I need her to stop doing this as that is why we didn't Q in Standard last weekend, cause I messed up the last jump by standing at the end of the teeter instead of where I should have been. 

So I will be doing only wednesday classes until our building opens back up...wednesday classes are an hour from here which sucks but usually we carpool so it isn't too bad except three of us go and I am the only one that has a big enough vehicle for all three crates so I always drive.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Did some Agility with Kris today for the first time in almost six weeks. She got herself all twisted up in the chute and looked at the Dog Walk as if it was something new and had to guide her over it the first time. After that everything went fine, raced through the chute no problem and over the dog walk like she always used to. Have to work more on her doing three jumps in a row as before I could not run so she would get too far head and miss the third jump. I have made a circle of jumps at home which should help although she thinks doing Agility at home is altogether different than in the arena. The first time I went to do the weaves at home, she looked at me like I was nuts and took some convincing. I have about three weeks to work with her before I decide to put her in our local trial or not. It is an outdoor trial which most of ours are. (Only one indoor trial a year in November which we have gone to several times)

I have to work her at home or in town as our own Agility equipment needs a few changes before I can use it for her. (Our dog walk in too narrow so will have to make it wider and don't want to take a chance that she will try and go over it and fall off) I do work Lucy and Remmy at my sisters where most of our equipment is.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Had my first private lesson. It seriously was the best thing ever. Unfortunately I can't get into another one for another month.. but it was soooo worth it. The one-on-one and no distractions really helps me think better and put things into perspective. Sometimes my hands are out too much or pointing a certain direction that people wouldn't really notice.. but my dog does since she very much responds to my movements. I've gotta keep my hands glued to my sides until I need them at the right moment apparently. Also got a lot of nice compliments from my instructor about how far we have come and how much faith she has in us for our future trialing. Kairi did great overall and I worked on some much needed handling skills.


----------



## Sibe

I'm entering Denali in NADAC trials in mid-September. A month ago was the first time she ever saw a hoop. She's seen a barrel once. I know nothing about the games or rules, we've only done AKC. Time for some reading! We won't be doing Chances or Hoopers as we really haven't worked distance or directionals, but I think we'll be fine on everything else. I'm really excited for Tunnelers!

Her last trial was the end of October.


----------



## CptJack

YAY! More NADAC people!

I think the only big, important, differences in rules are that you can't tug or treat within 10 feet of the ring, and dogs run naked (without a collar). There are some other things related to the way the course is set up and obstacles and things, but you know all of that from practice. Oh, and the barrel in novice won't be directional, so it won't matter which way she goes around it, and YOU can go around it with her if it comes to that (I don't imagine it will). 

Our trial is *also* mid September, so it should be a fun time around here 

Also? I MISS TUNNELERS SO MUCH. Tunnelers is crack.


----------



## Sibe

Good to know. AKC rules is naked too, or flat collar with nothing dangling. I do tend to have treats right before we go in so that's really good to know, thanks!!


----------



## CptJack

NADAC doesn't even allow flat collars, but that's not a huge deal for most people.

Check your premium. Some trials are 'containerized' wherein you can take treats or a leash with you *into the ring* if they are in a sealed container, can't be seen and you don't indicate to the dog that you have them, so you can get them to them really fast once you're out. I tend to run with an RX bottle in my pocket, run out with the dog, and then immediately toss the treats or just jackpot the daylights out of her. Of course the flip side of this is you can't leave your treats waiting for you just outside the ring. 

Um, other stuff as I wrack my brain. 

NADAC allows training in the ring. You aren't going to get a qualifying run/will be eliminated but if you want to rerun a sequence or put her back on a contact or whatever, go for it. HOWEVER, and this is important and different, if your dog breaks a startline stay and you take even a single step back toward the dog/ go back and reset, even if the dog hasn't crossed the startline, you are eliminated for training the startline. Once you leave your dog you can turn your body back but you can not move even one foot back a little, or you're out. I mean, you can run, but you've then trained in the ring according to them and cannot qualify.

http://www.nadac.com/Rules_for_NADAC_trials.htm#_Handling_Faults

I think the rest of the stuff is in there, which I'm sure you know, and since I don't do other venues I'm not crazy up on all of it, but the collar having to be off, the startline and no treating/tugging near the ring are what I've seen other people be caught out by.


----------



## Sibe

I'm glad they don't allow collars at all. Saw a Brittany slice a jump, and his collar got snagged on one of the cups that support the jump bar. Whole jump came down on him, collar twisted, was very scary. Fortunately he wasn't injured.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah. NADAC has some issues and there are some things I don't blame people for not loving, but they are very, very big on the safety stuff. Some people think too safe and that's a valid enough opinion but it works for me and mine. Some stuff I wouldn't worry about now with the changes in standard equipment (like breakaway tires) but pre-those I know my instructor actually saw a dog get killed by getting hung up in one and slammed face first into the ground and break its neck.


----------



## Sibe

YouTube search breakaway tires and you'll see plenty of reasons why they're needed. I'm glad everyone is using them now.


----------



## Sibe

How does the titling system work? I'm not getting the 10, 20, 30 thing. http://www.nadac.com/forms/NADAC-titles-checklist.pdf


----------



## CptJack

That checklist is weird. 

You can get two kinds of Q, if you're running skilled: 5 point, where you have less than 5 faults (time or course), or a 10point regular Q. In higher levels there are also 20point Qs with a bonus line or something, but I don't know anything about that. 

You title after you get 30 points. Or 100 for the superior awards and so on.

That checklist is basically just giving you a spot to check off each of your regular Qs, and go 'Okay, got 3, that's 30 points, I have my NAC'. Or whatever. You don't need like a 10, followed by a 20, and then a 30 point Q (there isn't one) . The check list is laid out weird.


----------



## CptJack

OH! And I went back to find your pictures. If she's never seen non-slatted equipment before, be prepared for her to maybe get a little weird about it. Some dogs don't notice at all, some really do.

...I'm just spamming like a spammy thing, here.


----------



## Sibe

Ooooh ok. They're just adding it then on the checklist it would seem. You have a 10. Then another 10 means you have a 20. etc. 

Equipment she's been on the past 6-ish weeks is non-slatted. She didn't even seem to notice!


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> Ooooh ok. They're just adding it then on the checklist it would seem. You have a 10. Then another 10 means you have a 20. etc.
> 
> Equipment she's been on the past 6-ish weeks is non-slatted. She didn't even seem to notice!


Yep, exactly!

Kylie noticed when we switched to the nonslatted stuff at the practice field, but unlike a lot of the dogs she got more confident on it. I was a little confused at first, but then realized she's kind of shorts and those slats were actually probably something she was almost small enough to have to navigate on their own. And the rubberized matting that's on the club equipment (and what she usually runs on) is provides some crazy good traction.


----------



## Sibe

I appreciate the spamming, thanks!


----------



## LoMD13

I was talking to my trainer about how weird it was that Lola refused the same red tunnel in all runs at the trial, even in tunnelers when the tunnel was moved across the room (and straightened out). Lo rarely has any refusals like that, especially tunnels. She said something I didn't know, that before we ran, a dog had a complete, terrified meltdown in that tunnel (and then ran out of the ring shaking). I'm kind of thinking Lo picked up on some pheromones or something like that. I'm pretty sure now it was a flukey thing though. 

She was CRAZY pants in class tonight. So many off courses, so much fun.


----------



## LoMD13

We haven't had any trouble adjusting to hoops and barrels, and we're used to running naked in USDAA. The no slats/ no color change thing was a problem in our first trial (and carried over into class that week), but we got over it by our second,


----------



## CptJack

I like barrels, but they go way back to our foundations work and I always got a sad, strange, kind of thrill out of sending my dogs out to circle those. I've never had an issue with her trying to circle around anything else, either. I 'out' at a barrel, she circles it, I out at a tunnel/contact discrimination and she takes the tunnel. 

I HATED hoops for a while because Kylie didn't seem to recognize them as an obstacle, so I could get her through them but had a hard time sending her TO them. Once she got that, I got apathetic. Then I bought some and fell in love. They're cheap(ish), they transport easily store in just about zero space, and they're *AWESOME* for no impact handling work.


----------



## LoMD13

I think that's a common thing with hoops and little dogs. Lola will run through them, but I'm not convinced she sees them as obstacles either, they're so big that they really aren't in her line of vision.


----------



## Sibe

LoMD13 said:


> I was talking to my trainer about how weird it was that Lola refused the same red tunnel in all runs at the trial, even in tunnelers when the tunnel was moved across the room (and straightened out). Lo rarely has any refusals like that, especially tunnels. She said something I didn't know, that before we ran, a dog had a complete, terrified meltdown in that tunnel (and then ran out of the ring shaking). I'm kind of thinking Lo picked up on some pheromones or something like that. I'm pretty sure now it was a flukey thing though.
> 
> She was CRAZY pants in class tonight. So many off courses, so much fun.


 That's kinda freaky!


----------



## pawsaddict

New Bad Dog Agility podcast about training the teeter! So excited to listen!! Nova is getting better on it, but there is definitely room for improvement.

Edit: meh...it was lackluster (unless you have access to a TipAssist).


----------



## Laurelin

I so wish bad dog agility podcasts were more often!


----------



## pawsaddict

Me too. I learn a lot from them. And for some strange reason, I find Esteban's voice really nice to listen to...


----------



## Laurelin

Did you see his golden Gitchi was ranked #2 in Q2 power rankings for 26"?

Some people follow football standings. I follow agility.


----------



## pawsaddict

I did! She was the only off-breed on the list.

Lol, I am starting to get that way too. I am super proud of Canada at the EO this year too. Jessica Patterson and Trix did amazing!


----------



## Laurelin

Speaking of did anyone listen to their System vs Talent podcast?

http://baddogagility.com/episode-106-system-versus-talent/

I think it's really good. Especially for off breed folk.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> Did you see his golden Gitchi was ranked #2 in Q2 power rankings for 26"?
> 
> Some people follow football standings. I follow agility.


This is completely random, but I recognized the name "Gitchi". I know someone that has a relative of that dog. Gitchi's so cool. I love seeing other breeds going nuts in agility besides Border Collies. 

I have a hard time with podcasts because I need images.. but maybe I will give it a try.


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> Speaking of did anyone listen to their System vs Talent podcast?
> 
> http://baddogagility.com/episode-106-system-versus-talent/
> 
> I think it's really good. Especially for off breed folk.


I sure did. And I agree, it was nice to hear that you don't necessarily need to have a dog that is the fastest of the bunch to do well. A good system can help make up for some of that (like with Gitchi).


----------



## Laurelin

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> This is completely random, but I recognized the name "Gitchi". I know someone that has a relative of that dog. Gitchi's so cool. I love seeing other breeds going nuts in agility besides Border Collies.
> 
> I have a hard time with podcasts because I need images.. but maybe I will give it a try.


They are very good podcasts usually! It does focus on AKC for most the stats type articles but still good stuff for any agility person I think. I usually multitask and listen while doing something else.


----------



## CptJack

I was surprised by how much I liked the podcasts, because I'm usually a visual person, too. 

I almost also came back here to post about the System Vs Talen post. There was a lot of good stuff in there that we've touched on at DF in various discussions and it was neat to hear them weigh in on it.

Oh, and Kylie has a lesson Sunday at 8 a.m. I'm excited about that one. Of course. It's agility. With a whole course.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie is just barely, barely over 11" tall. (Like... 11.1, maybe 11.2. Over 11", under 11.5, anyway, always.).

Dogs over 11" jump 12" regular. I don't want to do that, so I run her skilled at 8". But eeeeevery once in a while either because my husband forgets to put the .2, or because people just don't see it, they put her in skilled 4". I'm always about half tempted to just go with it to avoid being a pest, but. I don't think she'd jump 4". As in, I think she'd ignore the jumps. So I suck it up and send in the correction for the confirmation and feel like an incompetent, annoying, dork.


----------



## sassafras

Oh man, I was at an agility seminar all day today, audited in the morning and had a working spot in the afternoon for "fast dogs, slow handlers" with Squash.

It was so amazingly helpful. Learned so much about my handling AND my dog. For example, I've always kind of thought he just didn't care very much about it or what I think but went along with me because he's basically a good guy. But the instructor suggested (and this bore out in practice) that he's really kind of the opposite - he needs a LOT of affirmation and sort of checks out to do his own if he doesn't get it. Also I have been giving him cues waaaaaay to late for him to physically be able to commit to upcoming obstacles. It was night and day just changing those two things, let alone several smaller things. I also got some great ideas for the future for Toast. Not to mention that he hung in there fantastically for a really long day. 

Plus the instructor liked him, thought he was fun and said he has a kind heart. And called him a polar bear. Any day Squash gets called a polar bear with a kind heart is an affirmation for me.


----------



## CptJack

Squash IS a polar bear with a kind heart: P That workshop sounds hugely helpful and fun and I'm a little bit jealous. 

Really good lesson this morning. Ran a novice course, worked some on discriminations and more independent contacts, and got a compliment on how much better my timing had gotten. We did some talking about the courses at the trial the trainer went to last weekend, and about how to 'correct' Kylie in the weaves without frustrating or stressing her. It was just an all around good morning.

We've had this run of really good practices and lessons. It makes me seriously wonder what's going to happen when we get to trial. Like... it's either going to go awesomely or it's going to lead straight to making every mistake we're not making now. I'm also still kind of worried about the discriminations because she's way, way better at taking the contact than the tunnel. At least NADAC runs the course backward for round 2?


----------



## CptJack

Oh. I have really bad weave habits. As in Kylie gets the entrance, I get excited and say "YES!" or good or something and she pops and/or stops and stares at me like I sprouted a third head. I have really got to stop distracting my own dog.


----------



## CptJack

Also also, I no longer give a leap about 2o2o with her. She stops - every time (she has blown 2 contacts, ever, and they were back to back the first time back after 6 months off agility). She stops 4 on. I went out of my way to teach a 2o2o to her and she learned it but she hates it and creeps back to put her front paws or flattens out and goes all droopy and sad if I push it. She absolutely knows what the criteria is, she goes ALL THE WAY to the end consistently and she doesn't creep/slow up at all. This is not a mountain I am willing to die on. 

Molly... Molly I care. Molly, however, doesn't seem to hate the 2o2o thing. In fact she kind of likes it a ton. I have no idea why Kylie despises it, but she does and you know, whatever.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Now that I am over my leg issues and back into training, I will have three dogs for our trial at the end of August so will have to limit how many classes I do. It will be Kris' first trial and as she is about 25 inches at the shoulder she would have to jump 26 inches so I am going to start her right out in Specials so she jumps 22 inches instead. Of course, her being entered is going to depend if I get her registration for AAC back in time. Just realized last week I had not sent it in yet. I will just be putting Remmy in Snookers as he has two Advanced Snookers to Q in so he can get his Advanced Games Certificate. He is already in Masters in everything else. Lucy will be in Starters Standard and Starters Jumpers so far I think. Then there are two trials the following two weekends (these are all two day trials) and that pretty well ends it till our last trial of year in November which is our only indoor trial.


----------



## CptJack

...I'm missing a show and go while I'm on vacation. HARRUMPH.


----------



## pawsaddict

We were able to paint the teeter yesterday. Yippee! And SO accidentally reset it at 18" (she has been practicing at 12"). Well, we went out to test the grip, and...Nova did great! She paused a bit at the pivot point, and that's when I noticed it was set higher, but she didn't cower or anything. Then she wanted to run it again...and again....and again 

Nova on her new teeter:


----------



## pawsaddict

Also, our new set of classes at the new club starts up tomorrow. I am SOOOOO excited. I hope we do well and that the new venue/dogs/people don't stress Nova out too much.


----------



## dogsule

pawsaddict said:


> We were able to paint the teeter yesterday. Yippee! And SO accidentally reset it at 18" (she has been practicing at 12"). Well, we went out to test the grip, and...Nova did great! She paused a bit at the pivot point, and that's when I noticed it was set higher, but she didn't cower or anything. Then she wanted to run it again...and again....and again
> 
> Nova on her new teeter:


Very cool. I just brought our clubs teeter home tonight as we have to move out of the building for a bit. Hope to work on Belle's teeter skills in the interum. Fitting a full size teeter in a minivan without anywhere to hook a rubber snubber to on the gate of the van was kind of interesting. But I got it home ok and didn't wreck the van either. LOL!


----------



## Laurelin

Good class.

In one sequence we had a probably 12 (ish)' tunnel stretched out completely straight. I was able to send him from before the closest opening all the way to the other tunnel opening!!!!

And of course I stood there like an idiot watching him going 'Oh wow! He did it!!!' Instead of using it to get ahead of him for the next few jumps. Still learning his commitment point.


----------



## pawsaddict

dogsule said:


> Very cool. I just brought our clubs teeter home tonight as we have to move out of the building for a bit. Hope to work on Belle's teeter skills in the interum. Fitting a full size teeter in a minivan without anywhere to hook a rubber snubber to on the gate of the van was kind of interesting. But I got it home ok and didn't wreck the van either. LOL!


Lmao! I couldn't imagine trying to fit our teeter in anything but our truck. The thing is big and heavy! Good luck on improving Belle's teeter skills 

Just gonna say that I love the adjustable teeter. Nova actually ran it at FULL HEIGHT this morning! No cowering, no bailing, nothing. Proud momma right here! Eventually she probably will need to pick up some speed on it, but we're going to ride this phase out for a little while. I just can't believe how quickly she picked it up this time around. Yipee!


----------



## dogsule

pawsaddict said:


> Lmao! I couldn't imagine trying to fit our teeter in anything but our truck. The thing is big and heavy! Good luck on improving Belle's teeter skills
> 
> Just gonna say that I love the adjustable teeter. Nova actually ran it at FULL HEIGHT this morning! No cowering, no bailing, nothing. Proud momma right here! Eventually she probably will need to pick up some speed on it, but we're going to ride this phase out for a little while. I just can't believe how quickly she picked it up this time around. Yipee!


You got that right, that teeter board is heavy and long! It only stuck out of the van about a foot or just over though. My daughter had to help me get it out. The base itself isn't heavy, large and cumbersome but not heavy.

I first noticed when we brought it home that it was adjustable. Not sure why in the beginning classes the trainer doesn't bring it out more and just have it lower for dogs to get used to it. We started at normal height with it. I had a blast playing with it yesterday. I set up a small course, I have four jumps, six weaves (wish I had 12) and a very short 4-5ft tunnel. When I first ran her through it she acted like she didn't have a clue what weaves were, goofy dog! I think being outside is a little distracting plus the other two dogs but we ran through our course a few times and she is getting better on the teeter. No more treating at the end though, she has to come off to get a treat. Hopefully by the time I have to return it, she will have mastered the no slowing down/stopping on the teeter.


----------



## pawsaddict

dogsule said:


> You got that right, that teeter board is heavy and long! It only stuck out of the van about a foot or just over though. My daughter had to help me get it out. The base itself isn't heavy, large and cumbersome but not heavy.
> 
> I first noticed when we brought it home that it was adjustable. Not sure why in the beginning classes the trainer doesn't bring it out more and just have it lower for dogs to get used to it. We started at normal height with it. I had a blast playing with it yesterday. I set up a small course, I have four jumps, six weaves (wish I had 12) and a very short 4-5ft tunnel. When I first ran her through it she acted like she didn't have a clue what weaves were, goofy dog! I think being outside is a little distracting plus the other two dogs but we ran through our course a few times and she is getting better on the teeter. No more treating at the end though, she has to come off to get a treat. Hopefully by the time I have to return it, she will have mastered the no slowing down/stopping on the teeter.


Awesome! So glad you guys are having fun with it!

We had our first class with the club last night. Holy crap. We definitely got put in a class that's more advanced than we are. We actually had to do half of every segment, where everyone else was doing full sequences.

The instructor was amazing, though. She adapted everything for us and we learned an incredible amount in such a short time. I also really like that everyone gets their own one-on-one time. So I'm not slowing the class down or feeling *incredibly* lost or anything.

Even though we were definitely overwhelmed and out of our league, I was proud of us. We nailed some wraps AND FRONT CROSSES BY JUMPS!!!! We also managed to pull off our first blind cross. This class is definitely going to push us, but we are up for the challenge so long as they will have us.


----------



## CptJack

You two are going to learn so much and have so much fun. I LOVED the class where I was in over my head  It was a really good thing, especially when you go look at real novice course and can kind of breathe a sigh of relief. Plus, fun! And learning! And stuff.

--

I am trying to work out my trial schedule for basically the next 6 months. 

Looks like it's going to be:
September 12-13
October 16-18
Oct 24-25
January 2-3
March 18-20

And after that I don't know. Our home trials aren't listed yet, but hopefully there'll be a couple in the spring/early summer. Not entirely sure about the second October one just yet since it would be a trial two weekends in a row, but honestly it's only 2 hours away, that club only does a single NADAC trial a year, so. What the heck.

If I stick to that, it'll be 7 trials in a year, which is more than I expected to do. By a lot. Remember my 'I just want to enter ONE trial' thing? LOL.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Proud of Obi right now. We did a 10 week beginner class which finished in June, was away for 3 weeks, then came back and have done the intermediate "sequencing" class 3 times. The last two times in the class he's been brilliant, like a switch and flipped in his head and he just gets it. So last night the instructor told me she wants to bump us up into the advanced class. We just need the chief instructor to assess us and approve it, which will happen in 2 weeks.

But yeah, Obi has been really really good the last two times we've gone. He's been fast and responsive, stops on the contacts almost perfectly, and weaves 6 poles from both sides and from difficult entries. Very happy


----------



## dogsule

pawsaddict said:


> Awesome! So glad you guys are having fun with it!
> 
> We had our first class with the club last night. Holy crap. We definitely got put in a class that's more advanced than we are. We actually had to do half of every segment, where everyone else was doing full sequences.
> 
> The instructor was amazing, though. She adapted everything for us and we learned an incredible amount in such a short time. I also really like that everyone gets their own one-on-one time. So I'm not slowing the class down or feeling *incredibly* lost or anything.
> 
> Even though we were definitely overwhelmed and out of our league, I was proud of us. We nailed some wraps AND FRONT CROSSES BY JUMPS!!!! We also managed to pull off our first blind cross. This class is definitely going to push us, but we are up for the challenge so long as they will have us.


That is great. My Wednesday class is like that. I don't go every week, I am just a drop in but when I first started going this past spring the trainer would set up a hard course and then number an easier course for me as it was a very advanced class too. She doesn't do that anymore though as we have caught up with the rest. I LOVE her classes, very challenging and she will stop you even if you are going ok and tell you how to make things better or fix things that went wrong. I have learned a lot there! I remember one course when I walked it I was SO overwhelmed at how hard it was but when it was our turn up, we rocked it. Didn't do things perfectly but didn't have any more problems than anyone else. lol!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I am trying to work out my trial schedule for basically the next 6 months.
> 
> Looks like it's going to be:
> September 12-13
> October 16-18
> Oct 24-25
> January 2-3
> March 18-20
> 
> And after that I don't know. Our home trials aren't listed yet, but hopefully there'll be a couple in the spring/early summer. Not entirely sure about the second October one just yet since it would be a trial two weekends in a row, but honestly it's only 2 hours away, that club only does a single NADAC trial a year, so. What the heck.
> 
> If I stick to that, it'll be 7 trials in a year, which is more than I expected to do. By a lot. Remember my 'I just want to enter ONE trial' thing? LOL.


Do you or are you planning to stay overnight in the town with the trials, assuming you do more than one day or do you drive back and forth? I have done eight trials since our first in Feb, they are addicting. LOL! Our trials are an hour away and so far only one trial did I do two days (and I drove back and forth), others I have only done one day. Our next trial is the end of this month, still doing just one day but I entered FAST this time. I am just happy we are over the new smell everything and greet everyone stage with Belle and hopefully over the pooping issue she had at two trials. Our last trial she was so totally comfortable and happy, I think it took her this long to be totally at ease. At some point I would like to try a trial somewhere else, some of our club members go to one that is about 2 hours away and sometimes to another that is even further but maybe only 2 1/2 hours. Have no clue how Belle would react in a new place though but would like to try it at some point in time.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Do you or are you planning to stay overnight in the town with the trials, assuming you do more than one day or do you drive back and forth? I have done eight trials since our first in Feb, they are addicting. LOL! Our trials are an hour away and so far only one trial did I do two days (and I drove back and forth), others I have only done one day. Our next trial is the end of this month, still doing just one day but I entered FAST this time. I am just happy we are over the new smell everything and greet everyone stage with Belle and hopefully over the pooping issue she had at two trials. Our last trial she was so totally comfortable and happy, I think it took her this long to be totally at ease. At some point I would like to try a trial somewhere else, some of our club members go to one that is about 2 hours away and sometimes to another that is even further but maybe only 2 1/2 hours. Have no clue how Belle would react in a new place though but would like to try it at some point in time.


All of those trials except one are about an hour away, and the one that's not is 2. I do both days of the ones that are an hour away, I'll probably do just one at the one that's 2 hours out, mostly because of the crazy early wake-up time required to get there in time - once, fine, two days in a row no. 3ish hours out is probably my max. Might stretch that a bit, but not a ton. I'm not doing overnights for trials. It's just too much of an organizational nightmare. I don't want to leave the teenagers alone, I really don't want to hire a house/pet sitter for a regular agility trial. 

I'd do an overnight for a really major trial, but for regular ones? I don't have that much money or desire that's quite that strong. And since I only get to about 7 in a year, I'm not going to hit nationals anyway, so meh.


----------



## dogsule

I got Belle's Novice agility title certificates in the mail from the AKC. Played around with them in my photo program and made these......edited to add, I cloned out my name for posting on here.

IMG_7551a52noname by rzyg, on Flickr

IMG_9621DLMnoname by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> You two are going to learn so much and have so much fun. I LOVED the class where I was in over my head  It was a really good thing, especially when you go look at real novice course and can kind of breathe a sigh of relief. Plus, fun! And learning! And stuff.
> 
> --
> 
> I am trying to work out my trial schedule for basically the next 6 months.
> 
> Looks like it's going to be:
> September 12-13
> October 16-18
> Oct 24-25
> January 2-3
> March 18-20
> 
> And after that I don't know. Our home trials aren't listed yet, but hopefully there'll be a couple in the spring/early summer. Not entirely sure about the second October one just yet since it would be a trial two weekends in a row, but honestly it's only 2 hours away, that club only does a single NADAC trial a year, so. What the heck.
> 
> If I stick to that, it'll be 7 trials in a year, which is more than I expected to do. By a lot. Remember my 'I just want to enter ONE trial' thing? LOL.


I already kind of feel like I have learned more about handling in that one class than I did in some 8-week classes, which is awesome. I have no idea what "level" this class is, but that course the other night was definitely tougher than the novice courses I've seen. I just hope we can make it out of there alive, haha.

I'm excited for the day when we can attempt a trial. They sound like so much fun...and very addictive.



dogsule said:


> That is great. My Wednesday class is like that. I don't go every week, I am just a drop in but when I first started going this past spring the trainer would set up a hard course and then number an easier course for me as it was a very advanced class too. She doesn't do that anymore though as we have caught up with the rest. I LOVE her classes, very challenging and she will stop you even if you are going ok and tell you how to make things better or fix things that went wrong. I have learned a lot there! I remember one course when I walked it I was SO overwhelmed at how hard it was but when it was our turn up, we rocked it. Didn't do things perfectly but didn't have any more problems than anyone else. lol!


That sounds exactly like my class. It's nice to hear that you guys caught up. I am kind of worried that we are just too behind....like, they are doing serps and backsides and other cool stuff. We have never done any of that. At this point, I don't even know how to successfully drill those things at home.

I frantically order Susan Garrett's Success With One Jump DVD last night :\ I hope that will help a bit.


----------



## dogsule

pawsaddict said:


> That sounds exactly like my class. It's nice to hear that you guys caught up. I am kind of worried that we are just too behind....like, they are doing serps and backsides and other cool stuff. We have never done any of that. At this point, I don't even know how to successfully drill those things at home.
> 
> I frantically order Susan Garrett's Success With One Jump DVD last night :\ I hope that will help a bit.


That is exactly what they do in the class, lots and lots of backsides and serpentines, hard weave entries, hard tunnel entries etc. I love the class, it is so challenging but fun! Now I am starting to feel bad that I didn't go last night, just didn't feel like driving 2 hours last night (hr there, hr back) but I will for sure next week and probably the following 2 weeks too!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Except for our one local Agility trial at the end of August, all the other trials are at least a three hour drive so we have always gone the day before and stayed overnight Friday, Saturday and Sunday and come home on Monday. They are all outdoor trials and we camp on the grounds in our RV's. The only trial we have stayed in a motel is the one in November as the roads are usually really snowy by then and it is over a four hour drive each way. It is the only indoor trial we have gone to.


----------



## CptJack

I drive an hour eaxh way to every class, practice, private lesson, and meet up. I'm pretty well used to it at this point, but it does make those 3-4 times a week weeks exhausting.


----------



## pawsaddict

dogsule said:


> That is exactly what they do in the class, lots and lots of backsides and serpentines, hard weave entries, hard tunnel entries etc. I love the class, it is so challenging but fun! Now I am starting to feel bad that I didn't go last night, just didn't feel like driving 2 hours last night (hr there, hr back) but I will for sure next week and probably the following 2 weeks too!


I am lucky. The most I have driven for a class is 30 minutes each way.

When you started the class, did you know serps and backsides already? Or did it come with participating in the class?


----------



## CptJack

I know this isn't directed at me, but we were never specifically trained in serps and the like. Now, since our club is primarily NADAC the lack of backsides (or wraps to backsides I should say, since the dog takes the back of the jump from the HANDLER's perspective just not their own) makes sense but the serp training was just worked into our beginner class. We did a lot of 2 jump drills - figure 8s around them, 270s, pulling in between the jumps and sending them over from the front for both. 

So when I saw a serp it was kind of a nothing. It's just a 270 with an extra 'out' (away from you) jump at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi43ZOZVqFU

I had to go look it up to figure out what I usually do. Mostly I do post turn rear crosses when I change sizes, and push/pull when I don't (or shoulder drop thing).

ETA: The more I do agility the more I have to go look up names for what the heck it is I'm doing. I WILL LEARN JARGON YET.


----------



## dogsule

pawsaddict said:


> I am lucky. The most I have driven for a class is 30 minutes each way.
> 
> When you started the class, did you know serps and backsides already? Or did it come with participating in the class?


No, I did not know them, I couldn't even send Belle over a jump had to run with her at the time. We have come a long way. LOL! I am certainly not proficient with backsides or serps yet but getting better.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I know this isn't directed at me, but we were never specifically trained in serps and the like. Now, since our club is primarily NADAC the lack of backsides (or wraps to backsides I should say, since the dog takes the back of the jump from the HANDLER's perspective just not their own) makes sense but the serp training was just worked into our beginner class. We did a lot of 2 jump drills - figure 8s around them, 270s, pulling in between the jumps and sending them over from the front for both.
> 
> So when I saw a serp it was kind of a nothing. It's just a 270 with an extra 'out' (away from you) jump at the end.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi43ZOZVqFU
> 
> I had to go look it up to figure out what I usually do. Mostly I do post turn rear crosses when I change sizes, and push/pull when I don't (or shoulder drop thing).
> 
> ETA: The more I do agility the more I have to go look up names for what the heck it is I'm doing. I WILL LEARN JARGON YET.


Thanks! That's really helpful. We haven't done any of that yet, so I feel like we are missing a big skill right now. Time for us to get to some practicing. Found some good tutorials on Pam's Dog Acamdemy channel. Geez, I wish our backyard was bigger and that we had more jumps.

Lmao, I am always looking back at what we did and trying to figure out what move that was....or if it even was a move (or me just flailing around), haha.



dogsule said:


> No, I did not know them, I couldn't even send Belle over a jump had to run with her at the time. We have come a long way. LOL! I am certainly not proficient with backsides or serps yet but getting better.


Good on you guys for sticking it out in such a tough class. It's hard feeling behind, but I'm glad there is light at the end of the tunnel!


----------



## CptJack

The first time I saw a treadle on a course? I did this: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C7Up0l8R64

Only I did it three times in a row and my instructor kind of tilted her head at me but the jumps weren't numbered (nothing was) so I didn't know the dog was supposed to stay out between 1 and 2! Also I didn't do it right in that I just used the same arm and kind of flung it out over the jump I wanted her to take, calling her in between them. IDK. I fail at handling sometimes. At least handling RIGHT.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> The first time I saw a treadle on a course? I did this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C7Up0l8R64
> 
> Only I did it three times in a row and my instructor kind of tilted her head at me but the jumps weren't numbered (nothing was) so I didn't know the dog was supposed to stay out between 1 and 2! Also I didn't do it right in that I just used the same arm and kind of flung it out over the jump I wanted her to take, calling her in between them. IDK. I fail at handling sometimes. At least handling RIGHT.


Maybe you can clarify this for me. I've seen treadle spelled and pronounced so many different ways. I have no idea how to say/spell it (let alone do it, lol).


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Maybe you can clarify this for me. I've seen treadle spelled and pronounced so many different ways. I have no idea how to say/spell it (let alone do it, lol).


I've seen it spelled a bunch of different ways and was just snarling about that too. Treadle? Threadle? One of the two, but the first doesn't wig out spellcheck. 

All it *seems* to mean is like you've got two jumps beside each other. You send the dog out over one, pull the dog in between the jumps and then send them back out over the second jump. Instead of staying out and the second jump being back into you like it would be in a serp.


----------



## Laurelin

Threadle like threading a needle.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Threadle like threading a needle.


But it's spelled treadle in sewing! LOL, I don't even know. I get equal results for both and google wants to correct one to the other. I'm going with the h though because pronunciation it makes the most sense.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> I've seen it spelled a bunch of different ways and was just snarling about that too. Treadle? Threadle? One of the two, but the first doesn't wig out spellcheck.
> 
> All it *seems* to mean is like you've got two jumps beside each other. You send the dog out over one, pull the dog in between the jumps and then send them back out over the second jump. Instead of staying out and the second jump being back into you like it would be in a serp.


Thanks. That makes sense 

So. Much. To. Learn. 

Makes me feel so bad for anyone that continues taking agility classes at the first place we went to. The more I know, the more I realize just how awful it is. They advertise it as three 8 week classes and you will be trial ready. Bahahaha! Yeah. Right.


----------



## CptJack

Well, we have 3 7 week classes and then are pretty well good to go (except weaves, but they're often taught as a drop in thing and a lot of people do it at home) but um. We move pretty fast, and nadac (or really any venue) novice isn't terribly hard. The courses aren't terribly hard. Trial skills are things learned in trial and I count them separately because you aren't getting them in class.

And we do learn a lot of handling.


----------



## pawsaddict

Laurelin said:


> Threadle like threading a needle.





CptJack said:


> But it's spelled treadle in sewing! LOL, I don't even know. I get equal results for both and google wants to correct one to the other. I'm going with the h though because pronunciation it makes the most sense.


I'll go with the "h" version as well. Thanks, guys!


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Well, we have 3 7 week classes and then are pretty well good to go (except weaves, but they're often taught as a drop in thing and a lot of people do it at home) but um. We move pretty fast, and nadac novice isn't terribly hard.
> 
> And we do learn a lot of handling.


I can see being ready in that amount of time if a class has a good instructor that has a very good understanding of the sport and how to teach it safely and effectively. 

Not at that place. I don't think anyone can effectively trial if they stay there.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah. I honestly think our instructor has just worked out a really efficient way to get the information you need in there. I mean it's perfunctory in some ways, but it gets covered (then gets people competing and then they seem to learn more via private lessons or work at home or practices or all of it). 

Class 1 is foundations:
Targeting, recalling to a given/indicated side, working on both sides, and both being sent out to/around a bucket in both directions, but eventually doing the stuff with two, like pulling in between the buckets, staying out around both, doing figure 8s around them and so on. Working around distractions, too, and general off leash skills. Oh and jump chutes, low or without jump bars. Tunnels. Learn front, rear, and blind crosses - on the flat, then with tunnels. 

Class 2 is beginner: Introduce all the equipment, get it up to height, do the handling patterns I mentioned with buckets with jumps and some more complexity. Add in short sequences with pulling the dog off the obvious obstacle to where you want them, gradually build to longer sequences (our last one was, I think, 7 or 8 obstacles, with a cross in the middle). 

Class 3 is the last one and that's just harder sequences, more crosses, more complicated crosses and continued handling exercises with super short ones. I haven't done it in over a year so I don't remember super well, but that's basically the gist of it. 

I mean... there are holes? The weaves are taught as a drop in class about once a year, or you learn them on your own. There's an independent contacts thing that is also a separate class that I only see once in a blue moon. If you want or need more complicated crosses than those three basics, you're on your own with that. You are definitely expected to do work on your own and/or work out private lessons for extra help if you want more. Definitely at least show up for club run-throughs/practices so you can work on full courses. 

But the emphasis on the handling work and the introduction of the equipment means that by the time you're done with those, all you are really missing for being able to get around a novice course (in any venue because we do use chute/teeter/table in the classes and teach them) are weaves and there are courses in NADAC that don't require weaves. There's more you should learn, for sure, but you can get around with what you're taught in those classes. 

---

THAT ramble out of the way, yeah. Your old place sounds kind of like a nightmare. I really can't wait to see what happens for you at the new one!


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> Yeah. I honestly think our instructor has just worked out a really efficient way to get the information you need in there. I mean it's perfunctory in some ways, but it gets covered (then gets people competing and then they seem to learn more via private lessons or work at home or practices or all of it).
> 
> Class 1 is foundations:
> Targeting, recalling to a given/indicated side, working on both sides, and both being sent out to/around a bucket in both directions, but eventually doing the stuff with two, like pulling in between the buckets, staying out around both, doing figure 8s around them and so on. Working around distractions, too, and general off leash skills. Oh and jump chutes, low or without jump bars. Tunnels. Learn front, rear, and blind crosses - on the flat, then with tunnels.
> 
> Class 2 is beginner: Introduce all the equipment, get it up to height, do the handling patterns I mentioned with buckets with jumps and some more complexity. Add in short sequences with pulling the dog off the obvious obstacle to where you want them, gradually build to longer sequences (our last one was, I think, 7 or 8 obstacles, with a cross in the middle).
> 
> Class 3 is the last one and that's just harder sequences, more crosses, more complicated crosses and continued handling exercises with super short ones. I haven't done it in over a year so I don't remember super well, but that's basically the gist of it.
> 
> I mean... there are holes? The weaves are taught as a drop in class about once a year, or you learn them on your own. There's an independent contacts thing that is also a separate class that I only see once in a blue moon. If you want or need more complicated crosses than those three basics, you're on your own with that. You are definitely expected to do work on your own and/or work out private lessons for extra help if you want more. Definitely at least show up for club run-throughs/practices so you can work on full courses.
> 
> But the emphasis on the handling work and the introduction of the equipment means that by the time you're done with those, all you are really missing for being able to get around a novice course (in any venue because we do use chute/teeter/table in the classes and teach them) are weaves and there are courses in NADAC that don't require weaves. There's more you should learn, for sure, but you can get around with what you're taught in those classes.
> 
> ---
> 
> THAT ramble out of the way, yeah. Your old place sounds kind of like a nightmare. I really can't wait to see what happens for you at the new one!


Oh my gosh, me too. I'm so glad that I have you guys because, honestly, I don't think I would have switched if you all didn't tell me it sounded messed up. I probably would have continued on, thinking that's just the way agility is. So thank you, everyone!! After that experience, went to another place and got some actual foundations covered (still missed the figure 8's and stuff, though) and now we are at such a wicked club where I hope it will all come together. And yeah, we will be practicing lots at home. Lots and lots and lots.


----------



## dogsule

pawsaddict said:


> Oh my gosh, me too. I'm so glad that I have you guys because, honestly, I don't think I would have switched if you all didn't tell me it sounded messed up. I probably would have continued on, thinking that's just the way agility is. So thank you, everyone!! After that experience, went to another place and got some actual foundations covered (still missed the figure 8's and stuff, though) and now we are at such a wicked club where I hope it will all come together. And yeah, we will be practicing lots at home. Lots and lots and lots.


You know I wish our classes (here in my town) started with foundations and went up but it didn't. I could see depending on the dog how it would be a problem without them. Belle is doing good without having them but I think she probably could be better had she had them. I think the beginning classes that are an hour from here would have been much better for us but I think we are good now at least. Funny, last night I was doing teeter work with Belle and totally realized what I could have done in the last trial that would have gotten us a Q instead of messing up the jump after the teeter. A lot of agility seems to be making mistakes and learning what you did wrong and how to correct it.


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Oh my gosh, me too. I'm so glad that I have you guys because, honestly, I don't think I would have switched if you all didn't tell me it sounded messed up. I probably would have continued on, thinking that's just the way agility is. So thank you, everyone!! After that experience, went to another place and got some actual foundations covered (still missed the figure 8's and stuff, though) and now we are at such a wicked club where I hope it will all come together. And yeah, we will be practicing lots at home. Lots and lots and lots.


It's easy enough to grab a couple of buckets or cones to work on it, though I don't know if that's the standard way things are done or not. It has been hugely helpful for my dogs to learn how to follow 'be driven' by the handler and follow the hand. That and the to whatever side restrained recalls were probably the most helpful thing for getting the dog where you want them on the course. For me. Before I realized we weren't going to have to do wraps to backsides and threadles I did quite a few with Kylie in play and I've even done a little bit with Molly and those skills really seem to transfer. I still don't know that it's a normally done thing 

I didn't realize the club you just left was the second one! I have some vague memory but not really. First one sounds seriously jacked up, even more so.

(I can't imagine trying to run a dog without foundations skills. I mean maybe Kylie, but I still find the idea scary. I NEED TO KNOW THINGS.)


----------



## dogsule

So here is the little course I set up in my yard with the teeter I borrowed. (don't laugh at my little tunnel, lol!)

First I did this...click on photo to view....


but I want to get away with what I did at the end of the teeter there, where I stepped in front of it, her hesitation to come down makes me do this. So then I set it up like this to add an obstacle after the teeter...click on photo...



I had to take it all down last night though as they were calling for rain all day today, after not getting much of any rain for quite some time we are supposed to get about an inch and a half. I bring the teeter in the garage every night anyway and the tunnel. Maybe I will set things up a little different next time. I just want something where Belle will get used to coming off the teeter faster and me not having to beg her to come off.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> It's easy enough to grab a couple of buckets or cones to work on it, though I don't know if that's the standard way things are done or not. It has been hugely helpful for my dogs to learn how to follow 'be driven' by the handler and follow the hand. That and the to whatever side restrained recalls were probably the most helpful thing for getting the dog where you want them on the course. For me. Before I realized we weren't going to have to do wraps to backsides and threadles I did quite a few with Kylie in play and I've even done a little bit with Molly and those skills really seem to transfer. I still don't know that it's a normally done thing
> 
> I didn't realize the club you just left was the second one! I have some vague memory but not really. First one sounds seriously jacked up, even more so.
> 
> (I can't imagine trying to run a dog without foundations skills. I mean maybe Kylie, but I still find the idea scary. I NEED TO KNOW THINGS.)


Yeah, we are at our third agility place! The first one was freaking terrible. Very dangerous. And the instructor really had no idea what she was doing. The second place was good...just geared towards a different goal (at least at that level). The instructor I had there is actually is a member of my new club. So knowing that I would probably end up there anyway, I decided to go for it. Glad I did  

This morning, we practiced some 270 and backside handling. Nova picked it up really fast, so that's good. Hopefully practicing that a bit will get us a little more prepared for next class.


----------



## pawsaddict

Sorry, dogsule...can't quote you atm for some reason. Yeah, it was a pain to backtrack a bit. We had to train out some bad habits, take an extra class, and practice a lot of stuff at home. And even then we missed out on some foundation stuff, so I'll keep plugging away at home for now and see what happens.

Sometimes I wonder the same thing - if we started somewhere better, would Nova have a better understanding or more confidence or whatever. But you live and learn. Next time around, I'll do it differently. I think it's just more of an inconvenience to me, tbh...she is having fun no matter what we work on.


----------



## Sibe

NADAC registration help please! Would talk with agility instructor but all 3 of her dogs are suddenly sick (throwing up, lethargic), and I don't want to bother her.

I registered Denali with NADAC, will be sending in the $25. Looking at the trial info, they offer Elite, Open, Novice & Intro. *Is Intro the level I start in, or would I start in Novice?*

I'm also not understanding this:



> Friday: 2 Runs Touch-N-Go, Jumpers, Regular
> Saturday: 2 Runs Chances, 2 Runs Weavers, 2 Runs Regular
> Sunday: 2 Runs Jumpers, 2 Runs Regular, 2 Runs Tunnelers
> 
> This trial will be using the NADAC Beta format.
> Therefore, for any class with 2 rounds per day, the second round will be offered as a repeat run.
> The only exception being Regular agility, which can be taken in reverse on the second run.


Can someone walk me through what this means? I can do courses twice...? Would I pay extra to run twice? How does the scoring work on that, is it the best score of the 2 or do they take my 2nd score even if it's worse?


----------



## CptJack

You can do intro if you want to. I think you'd be bored to tears. They're like 8-9 obstacle runs, usually in horseshoe or S shapes, so like one cross, maybe? They're great for trial experience, but I really don't think you guys need that. And you're allowed to start in Novice. 

I have NO IDEA how the beta format thing works - I've never seen it. My best guess is that you pay twice, and get two shots to get a Q on the course. If that means you can get 2 Qs on the same course or not, I have no idea. I'd shoot an email off to the trial secretary and ask. (Regular I'm sure of, because for us that's normal. 2nd time is backward from the first two payments, two possible Qs).


----------



## Sibe

CptJack said:


> You can do intro if you want to. I think you'd be bored to tears. They're like 8-9 obstacle runs, usually in horseshoe or S shapes, so like one cross, maybe? They're great for trial experience, but I really don't think you guys need that. And you're allowed to start in Novice.
> 
> I have NO IDEA how the beta format thing works - I've never seen it. My best guess is that you pay twice, and get two shots to get a Q on the course. If that means you can get 2 Qs on the same course or not, I have no idea. I'd shoot an email off to the trial secretary and ask.


 Glad to know I can start in Novice!


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> Glad to know I can start in Novice!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G461Zpwwjng - Intro courses

I will do Intro with Molly. I would in no way, shape or form do them even with Kylie for anything but working on distance handling (and for that I REALLY would) or a dog with trial experience so you're not fighting some challenge on the course and a flakey baby dog.


----------



## sassafras

Tonight was our first agility class after the seminar we took. For a really long time I didn't think Squash really knew the verbal commands for some of the obstacles, in particular the tunnel. But he really does and really, really, REALLY does just need me to give him his cues way earlier. I am creeping closer and closer to becoming the handler his giant heart deserves.

By the time Toast is in foundations maybe I'll actually sorta know what I'm doing.


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> Tonight was our first agility class after the seminar we took. For a really long time I didn't think Squash really knew the verbal commands for some of the obstacles, in particular the tunnel. But he really does and really, really, REALLY does just need me to give him his cues way earlier. I am creeping closer and closer to becoming the handler his giant heart deserves.
> 
> By the time Toast is in foundations maybe I'll actually sorta know what I'm doing.


Timing is a pain to get right. I got complimented on mine last weekend and nearly exploded with happy because I was so slow/behind for so long. Too busy watching the dog, I think - or just trying to stay on my feet and remember what we were doing.

You want to hear something crazy? Sometimes I'm too FAST for Molly, now. She's going to need me to speed up a lot, later, but I keep assuming she knows things she doesn't and not supporting her enough. Apparently I'm crap at switching between dogs.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

It's crazy how much better you get without even realizing it! 

I'm super impressed with Kairi's ability to read my rear crosses anymore and land in the correct direction/lead leg. I seriously don't even know when this dog looks at me to read my signals either, because to me she looks like she is always looking at the obstacles.. not me. I was doing some distances work though, using nothing but hand gestures and body posture and she figured it out just fine. I know it wasn't just guessing either.. because I sent her over different ways. Seriously impressed. She's come so far.. and I cannot wait to trial in October.


----------



## Sibe

Did a fun run tonight! Denali has never run on dirt before (well, she did about 4 years ago once) so our first run tonight she was a bit scattered. Missed weaves, missed tunnel (!), jumped right off the table, ran off the contact of the A-frame, all in the name of "oh what's over here?" Her second run was beautiful. After we did the numbered course each time, we had extra time to keep going or practice things. My husband took pics of her, complaining about the crappy indoor lighting but he got some great shots anyway.














































Tuck those feets up!









I hated this double. No diagonal cross bar. Dog that ran after us crashed on top of it.


















Coming down to a 2o/2o









End of first run by doing weaves perfectly


----------



## Sibe

More pics





























Late take off on a slice









Boing!


----------



## dogsule

Sibe, those pics are awesome!! Wish I could get some of Belle like this!


----------



## Kyllobernese

I am going to have a fun time at the end of the month. I entered Remmy, Lucy and Kris in our local trial. I know it is going to be hard switching from one dog to the other. I am so used to Remmy knowing what I want and both Lucy and Kris are new at it. I also know I am going to end up calling one of them by the wrong name and have them stop and look at me to see if I really mean them.

Should be fun and then I have a second and third trial on the next two weekends. That is pretty well our Agility season over for the year that is why I decided to go to all three as they will have the winter off except for training and I will know what I have to work on.


----------



## Laurelin

Video'd our warmup sequence tonight!


----------



## Sibe

Woooo he's speedy!!!


----------



## Laurelin

I think we're finally getting the hang of timing together. I'm feeling more and more confident realizing I don't have to baby him to tunnels and stuff.

Also I missed the pics of Denali but those are AWESOME!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

You and Hank look crazy good! Look at that speed! Sibe those pictures are fantastic.


----------



## pawsaddict

Had a good class last night. Rocky start, though, because Nova was not in a working mood. At. All. She just wanted to play with the puppies on the other side. Can't really blame her. Who can resist cute puppies playing with all these fun toys! But she did get in the zone eventually and we are able to do our first K-turn. Nova nailed them right away, and I am pretty happy that I picked them up rather quickly too (considering my handling track record).

We really have to practice more on our start-line stay. She is pretty good in our yard, but take it to a new location and it's a whole new ball game. So I'll be packing up some jumps and heading to some new areas around the city to practice. Hopefully that helps!


----------



## Alla

Hey guys so random question.  More like me trying to overanalyze things/make sure I'm not forcing my dog too much.

Last agility class, she ran super well and I didn't fall on my face too many times either. We have the fenced agility area, and then the larger fenced area that it's in the middle of. 

So us and the other dog in the class would alternate - one person with their dog in the arena working with the trainer, the other on the outside taking a break. 

It was obvious Porsche was having fun in the arena, running, paying attention, tail wagging, not trying to leave. 

But as soon as our turn was over, she would bee-line at the exit gate out of the larger area, and would paw at it, try to stick her nose through, etc, and I couldn't really peel her away from it without literally luring with treats. 

So on the one hand, she had fun in the ring. On the other hand, as soon as ring time was over, she was done and wanted out of the whole place.

Wat?


----------



## LoMD13

Hank and Denali look AMAZING!! Hank is so fast and I've never actually seen a husky do agility, so awesome.

Me and Lo have had some nice classes. She does NOT get rear crosses at all though so we'll continue to just not use them. I tried doing a rear cross to a tunnel and she kept coming out of the tunnel looking for me on the wrong side. After 4-5 tries, I tried it with a blind and she knew exactly where I was. 

Looks like we're doing a USDAA trial in September. So excited to play pairs again. (MrsBoats, hope to see you there!!)


----------



## Laurelin

So Hank hates two dogs in his agility class. I thought it was ok because they hadn't shown up for a month and I thought maybe they quit. But they were back yesterday. It's a mutual kind of issue- all three dogs are feeding into things. 3 young male dogs (the two are owned by the same person) and they are also very high energy breeds (young mini aussie and young BC). Hank has not started anything but the BC has gotten loose during his runs and decided to come crate fight with Hank. And Hank gets real amped up because he's stuck in a crate with dog at the door and barking and growling at him. Hank doesn't diffuse situations at all. His response is to escalate things more, which doesn't help. The result was Hank screamed at them every time either dog was running. And the aussie at the end of class started posturing to hank on the leash. The owner got a bit close and it was game on between Hank and the Aussie. Luckily I yanked him away. But it's stressful. I actually like all 3 dogs. They're just all jerks who are way too amped for their own good. Hank has been 110% fine and friendly with every other dog we've had in class, even other high drive dogs. But the other high drive dogs are softer tempered and haven't rushed his crate. The aussie seems to be another non-diffuser and the BC loses focus a lot and just beelines for Hank's crate. A lot of it for Hank is that they are just fast and intense dogs. 

I just... I dunno. The owner is obviously trying to keep the dog's focus better. But I'm not sure what to do with this situation to try to get Hank to be calm around these two dogs. He's going to have to learn how to not flip his you know what when there's wild dogs running around.

I think maybe if we could facilitate a calm introduction (lol) between Hank and the BC they'd be ok together. Not sure about the aussie + Hank. I'm hoping once he's used to them being back he'll go back to ignoring them. Before their month long break they were doing a lot better. The first couple times he met the BC by himself the two were wild but in a 'young dogs, let's play!' kind of way. Not mutually wanting to eat each other.

Hank is sometimes a stupid boy dog.


----------



## Laurelin

Just a random thought but maybe I should bring a crate cover next week.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Just a random thought but maybe I should bring a crate cover next week.


That's what I was going to suggest, but you beat me to it. 

I wouldn't personally introduce the dogs, because IME once Watson hates a dog it's not going to help to introduce them. He'll just bark in their face and make it worse. But that's when he really hates a dog vs just being leash reactive which aren't at all the same. Not sure what state of mind Hank is in about the other dogs.


----------



## CptJack

I was actually coming to say I don't think I'd bother to introduce the dogs, either. Even if he *does* learn to tolerate or even play with and like the one dog, you haven't resolved the fundamental issue. You aren't going to be able to introduce and help him make friends with every dog he doesn't like in his agility career. Better to use this as an opportunity to work on the issue of focusing around them and how to manage it on your end, I think.

Crate cover is a good idea, too.


----------



## Laurelin

At the least the crate cover might prevent the BC from rushing at Hank's crate. I think if that hadn't happened first thing yesterday they would have all been much better. The BC and Hank have met face to face about a year ago when I first got Hank and they have always kind of fed off each other quite a bit but like I said they seem to want to play. I think the Aussie (which is a relatively new dog and also a year and a half) just kind of added to it and maybe swayed it. The aussie is LOUD all the time. When Aussie is loud, Hank is loud. I keep reminding myself pre-vacation for them the three were ok, even if Hank was prone to get overstimulated sometimes. But so. much. screaming. yesterday.

Hank actually is a good boy though. He kept focus and never went to their crates. He can even walk calmly by them crated off leash and go into his crate. The issue for Hank is while they're out running. Not sure how he'll handle not being able to see them but it's definitely worth a shot since I know he won't diffuse things on his own.


----------



## Sibe

Videos from class today. We've been having people stand on the course while we run, since Denali gets stressed by judges. We started with people standing doing nothing, then had people shuffling, raising arms in the air, stretching, and such. Today we were ready to step it up. What freaks her out the most is when the judge is walking straight toward her, so I told the instructor (who didn't previously know that was the biggest issue) and we had everyone walking toward her as she went by them. Her first run she really shuffled and hesitated before going into a tunnel, and at the teeter she was heading for it then nope'd away. Second run was so much better.





Another run


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzkCk6-d8Oc

I want someone to make an agility vid to this. That someone isn't me - I have like almost no video footage of us doing agility, but I want someone to, darn it!


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzkCk6-d8Oc
> 
> I want someone to make an agility vid to this. That someone isn't me - I have like almost no video footage of us doing agility, but I want someone to, darn it!


Oh my gosh. That song is so cute!

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## kadylady

Great videos Sibe! (And pictures too!) Denali looks great!


----------



## Laurelin

Love the videos! She looks awesome and happy!


----------



## kadylady

I have agility blues today big time. My friend who I trial with a lot is trialing today at a trial we were suppose to be at...  I haven't done agility with Zoey since the 4th of July. My instructor has been the most amazing friend ever and been letting me run her dog in class. And he's super fast and super fun and is really pushing me to learn how to be a better handler, last night we rocked a 25 obstacle course with all sorts of fancy moves. But as fun and awesome as that has been....he's not Zoey.  She has an appointment this afternoon and for some reason I'm feeling super anxious about it. I'm really really hoping that the vet sees enough improvement to start adding back some light exercise and conditioning stuff. Going to talk to her about rehab options and such. The last thing I want to do is push her too hard to fast and go through this entire process again. For some reason it's just really hitting me hard today and I needed some where to whine about it! 

On a happier note, Skye's 1st class should start Oct 6th!!! There's a month break between the summer classes and the fall classes so we're going to do some more private lessons next month. That should keep my agility blues at bay.


----------



## pawsaddict

Great videos, Sibe. You both look terrific!

So I sat down last night and watched disc one of Susan Garrett's Success With One Jump DVD, and something she said really confused me.

She said something along the lines of: if your dog breaks their start-line stay sit and you verbally tell them to sit again, you are giving them attention and in turn are reinforcing the breaking behavior. I think she said that she corrects the behavior by gently grabbing the dog's collar and putting them back in position (only if the dog has a long positive reinforcement history for having their collar grabbed).

So my confusion is this: if the dog is wanting attention and breaks their startline, aren't you still giving them attention by coming back and re-placing them?

What do you all do if your dog breaks their start-line stay? I totally have been verbally telling her to sit again if she stands up. I thought she was inproving, but now I don't know if I have been inadvertently reinforcing her breaking.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## CptJack

If my dog breaks at the startline (Molly or Kylie) I walk back and reset them (verbally), even if they take an obstacle or two on the way to me/in the process of breaking. 

What I *don't* do is ever, ever, run with them when they break the stay.


----------



## kadylady

I go back and reset. It delays the process of starting, which is what they ultimately want, and enforces my point.


----------



## pawsaddict

Yeah, I never let her keep running if she breaks. Sometimes she takes a jump, and if that happens, we go right back to the startline and I verbally tell her to sit and we start over. She has been improving, but this comment on the DVD made me really confused. She equated it to being the same thing as calling the dog to you when they break their stay. To me, they are very different.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## CptJack

I think that this is a general stay behavior. If your dog breaks a stay, anywhere, and you tell them what to do again you haven't really reinforced the stay. You've given them another command, KWIM? If you're teaching a puppy to stay and they break, you go back and reset, no treat, you don't just repeat the sit and carry on midstream The thing you actually want them to do (stay while you walk away) gets diluted and duration doesn't get built. You then reward for the returned sit, not the actual staying while you walk off, and the duration's been broken up/is lesser/it's easier because you don't have as far to go.

I haven't seen the video though, so I don't know that that's what she's getting at. It's just what sounds logical to me.

Conversely, what you're saying makes plenty of sense to me too. So count me clueless, just someone who walks back to reset.


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I think I get what you are saying. It sounds like what she was getting at as well.

So this is what I do:

If she breaks and moves forward, I go back and reset and I verbally tell her to sit and wait again. No treat.

If she breaks by just standing, I will just verbally tell her to sit again. No treat.

So correct me if I am wrong, but when she breaks by just standing, I should go back and reset her again. Is it bad to verbally say "sit" or "wait" again in that instance? Or should I just keep my mouth shut, haha.

Edit: and yeah, I still don't understand how verbally repeating the cue is giving attention but quietly physically resetting is not. I mean, I have to cue Nova to the side to reset her. So I am still giving another cue. Nova runs naked, so I can't grab her collar. Not that I really want to because I don't want her to start to think it's a punishment.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I think that this is a general stay behavior. If your dog breaks a stay, anywhere, and you tell them what to do again you haven't really reinforced the stay. You've given them another command, KWIM? If you're teaching a puppy to stay and they break, you go back and reset, no treat, you don't just repeat the sit and carry on midstream The thing you actually want them to do (stay while you walk away) gets diluted and duration doesn't get built. You then reward for the returned sit, not the actual staying while you walk off, and the duration's been broken up/is lesser/it's easier because you don't have as far to go.


Yeah, this. Just popping in to say that at the place we do obedience, they always teach to go back and place the dog back into a sit or down if they break. Don't repeat the cue, because you're teaching them that getting up and then sitting again is just part of the pattern. And if you want to get really technical, in a behavior chain another cue is a reward for what the dog did previously. If the dog correctly did the jump, I give the cue for the next obstacle. If they did it wrong, we reset and work on the part they did wrong (may not always be the right response depending on the dog, but you get what I mean). So by giving another cue you're basically saying "yep, getting up was correct, now your next cue is to sit again" and that becomes part of your behavior chain. Since we have the dog on variable reinforcement they expect to not always get a cookie, but continuing on with the exercise and getting the next cue becomes the reward.

My dogs don't always like being placed in a position (mostly the down) so I will talk to them and tell them what we're doing and probably say "down" again, but it's clear that I'm not re-cueing and that I'm resetting them. If it's a sit, where I can easily take their collar and touch their butt and they sit, I won't say "sit" (though I may chat with them so they don't think I'm punishing them).


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



elrohwen said:


> Yeah, this. Just popping in to say that at the place we do obedience, they always teach to go back and place the dog back into a sit or down if they break. Don't repeat the cue, because you're teaching them that getting up and then sitting again is just part of the pattern. And if you want to get really technical, in a behavior chain another cue is a reward for what the dog did previously. If the dog correctly did the jump, I give the cue for the next obstacle. If they did it wrong, we reset and work on the part they did wrong (may not always be the right response depending on the dog, but you get what I mean). So by giving another cue you're basically saying "yep, getting up was correct, now your next cue is to sit again" and that becomes part of your behavior chain. Since we have the dog on variable reinforcement they expect to not always get a cookie, but continuing on with the exercise and getting the next cue becomes the reward.
> 
> My dogs don't always like being placed in a position (mostly the down) so I will talk to them and tell them what we're doing and probably say "down" again, but it's clear that I'm not re-cueing and that I'm resetting them. If it's a sit, where I can easily take their collar and touch their butt and they sit, I won't say "sit" (though I may chat with them so they don't think I'm punishing them).


I like the behavior chain explanation. That really makes sense for me. How do you make it clear that you are resetting and not re-cueing them when you repeat the "down" cue? Nova runs naked, so I have no collar to grab. So when I reset her, I cue to her my side with my hand and then verbally tell her to sit and then verbally tell her to wait.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



pawsaddict said:


> I like the behavior chain explanation. That really makes sense for me. How do you make it clear that you are resetting them when you repeat the "down" cue? Nova runs naked, so I have no collar to grab. So when I reset her, I cue to her my side with my hand and then verbally tell her to sit and then verbally tell her to wait.


I basically go up and place them into a down by either pulling down on the collar, pushing down on their back, etc. Watson knows now that collar pressure means down, but at first he resisted and got stressed (good old opposition reflex) because I never used physical placement before. So in that case I just went through the motions of putting him down physically while also saying down so he knew what I wanted. It was still clearly different from a repeated cue though.

Even without a collar you could guide her back to the spot and then kind of place her butt into a sit. I think you just want to make it different enough from your normal cue that the dog realizes it's a reset, rather than looking exactly the same as your normal sit cue. Or you could use your regular sit cue, but by going all the way back to her (even if she sits while you're walking back) it will be clear that you are starting over.


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



elrohwen said:


> I basically go up and place them into a down by either pulling down on the collar, pushing down on their back, etc. Watson knows now that collar pressure means down, but at first he resisted and got stressed (good old opposition reflex) because I never used physical placement before. So in that case I just went through the motions of putting him down physically while also saying down so he knew what I wanted. It was still clearly different from a repeated cue though.
> 
> Even without a collar you could guide her back to the spot and then kind of place her butt into a sit. I think you just want to make it different enough from your normal cue that the dog realizes it's a reset, rather than looking exactly the same as your normal sit cue. Or you could use your regular sit cue, but by going all the way back to her (even if she sits while you're walking back) it will be clear that you are starting over.


Okay. Yeah, now that you mention it, my reset does look exactly the same as when I first set her up. I'll experiment with making the reset clearer.

Do you think it would help if I incorporated her no-reward marker ("oops") when she breaks?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



pawsaddict said:


> Do you think it would help if I incorporated her no-reward marker ("oops") when she breaks?


Depends on the dog. Watson is really soft, but I use an NRM if he moves on a stay and it seems to be very clear for him. In other cases not so much, but I think because a stay is so black and white the NRM makes sense to him.


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



elrohwen said:


> Depends on the dog. Watson is really soft, but I use an NRM if he moves on a stay and it seems to be very clear for him. In other cases not so much, but I think because a stay is so black and white the NRM makes sense to him.


Makes sense. I'll see how she does with it thrown in there. I know for weaves, the NRM frustrates her, so it very well could in this instance as well.

Thanks for your help, everyone! That is much more clear to me now. Hopefully these little tweaks will help her to pick it up easier.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Kylie and I are back at agility tomorrow morning, and Molly goes back Tuesday. It's been weeks/near a month for them. I haven't re-set up my equipment, even. Going to be interesting seeing how things go after the break. Also 3 weeks until the first of our three trials between now and end of October, after which we've got nothing until January. I'm so ready to get back to it.


----------



## sassafras

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



pawsaddict said:


> Makes sense. I'll see how she does with it thrown in there. I know for weaves, the NRM frustrates her, so it very well could in this instance as well.
> 
> Thanks for your help, everyone! That is much more clear to me now. Hopefully these little tweaks will help her to pick it up easier.


I'm late, but I took a seminar a few weekends ago and there was a dog who could just barely contain himself at the start line. He would slooowly start to stand up and move forward as his owner went to lead out. What the instructor had her do, which worked really well, was to just move back towards him the instant his butt started to come up. She had to actually reset the dog I think just once, then he caught on really fast that if he couldn't control his anticipation he was actually making it take LONGER to get to the game. It was amazing how fast it made a huge difference.


----------



## sassafras

When Squash was just a wee lad, we took an "agility for fun" class. The first time he went through a full chute, he laid down and started thrashing around in it. "Oh, no!" we thought, "He got tangled up and he's panicking!" And then he came out with a huge poo-eating grin on his face. Ever since, he loves to play in the chute. 

I know we missed a jump but I'm still proud of him for everything but the chute here. (And honestly, how adorable is he fooling around in there?) Even a few weeks ago we wouldn't have been able to pull off that rear cross from the green jump to the next jump. 






And it's small potatoes, but we've been learning wraps and he took a nice one on the far jump here.


----------



## Sibe

Go Squashie! I had no idea he was so tall... what the heck!


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



sassafras said:


> I'm late, but I took a seminar a few weekends ago and there was a dog who could just barely contain himself at the start line. He would slooowly start to stand up and move forward as his owner went to lead out. What the instructor had her do, which worked really well, was to just move back towards him the instant his butt started to come up. She had to actually reset the dog I think just once, then he caught on really fast that if he couldn't control his anticipation he was actually making it take LONGER to get to the game. It was amazing how fast it made a huge difference.


Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely give that a try as well. 

And great videos! Squash looks like he's having so much fun  and that was a really nice wrap!

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## sassafras

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Yea, he's tall. And yea, he pretty much always has fun no matter what he's doing. 

Even though I can't keep up with him if he really gets going, I don't worry TOO much about his size/speed because I'm not too serious about agility with him. BUT, although Toast is much lighter weight-wise he is actually an inch or so taller than Squash and has legs for miles. Soooo when the time comes he is going to be a challenge for me for sure. Fortunately he also takes things much more seriously than Squash.


----------



## LoMD13

Oh my gracious, Squashgility is amazing <3


----------



## LoMD13

And I know i'm late on this, but I don't reset my dog for start lines. Not that anybody shouldnt, but for my particular dog I was de-motivating her before we even took the first obstacle.


----------



## Laurelin

SQUASH!!!

apparently too short a post


----------



## Laurelin

Laurelin said:


> Video'd our warmup sequence tonight!


I keep rewatching my video and realizing I am still doing the flappy arm. lol


----------



## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> I keep rewatching my video and realizing I am still doing the flappy arm. lol


Haha, the instructor where we train is always having to sigh and tell me "just... don't do anything with your arm."


----------



## Laurelin

My agility goal right now is no flappy arms. I am so ungraceful. 

So hank and I ran into his Aussie nemesis today randomly at the pet expo. And they were happy and friendly with each other. So I'm blaming young male crazy dogs in high energy environment for their 'issues'. They were actually happy to see each other today


----------



## LoMD13

Crazy about Hank and the Aussie, dogs are so weird. 

I signed up for gamblers at our next trial, the chances of us getting the gamble are slim to none, but I wanted to do 3 runs in the same ring and so the timing just worked out.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie's agility lesson did not happen because of a flat tire and being stuck on the side of the road or in a garage all morning. We have 2 more potential weekends before we trial next. She has not seen contact equipment in right around a month, now (well, 4 weeks). If we don't get a lesson on at least one of those two weekends, it's going to be _ugly_. Well, our discriminations are going to be ugly because she's going to be so overexcited by contact equipment she's going to take them every chance she might possibly be able to get


----------



## CptJack

I think I'm going to be able to get that lesson. That's good because if my husband doesn't get the agility 'field' here mowed so I can set things back up, we're not going to have much practice at all before this trial... and I might have to gently strangle the guy. 

We also have a show 'n go the 20th - weekend after the trial, basically. I'm excited about that one, and hoping I can take Molly as well as Kylie and get a little bit of practice there. It's in the building that our January trial will be in, and I've never been there so it will be good to see and get a little experience with. Still not sure if I'm entering her in Jan. or waiting for April, but right now I'm leaning toward giving her a run each day in January, just for experience.

Also feeling weirdly guilty about making Kylie 'share' her special time with Molly. IDEK what that's about.


----------



## CptJack

We get 2 show and goes and a trial before the end of September, y'all. So it'll be show 'n go this weekend, week off (well, lesson) trial, another show 'n go. This is going to be AWESOME. Then October we'll have two trials!


----------



## CptJack

Pardon the spam, but question/opinions:

Kylie's been running full novice courses for a long freaking time, now, at lessons/practices. Now, obviously she doesn't have her novice title/isn't actually in open, but she's nailing the stuff in our lessons more often than not. We're still working on smoothing out her switches and working on discriminations a bit, but mostly she's more than fine. I'm... kind of thinking of putting her out on the open course at the show 'n goes. Let her see what's out there, let ME see what's out there, get some real work with 12 poles in an environment more challenging than home and in a longer sequence. 

Is this dumb in some way I'm not aware of/going to bite my butt?


----------



## LoMD13

How many runs do you get in your show no go? I'm guessing it's similar to our run throughs. I would do a novice course her first run out honestly- build confidence for both her and you. It sounds like you just need some trial experience for her- give her something she can go out and nail. If it goes well, i'd switch to open for the other runs


----------



## sassafras

I agree that there's benefit to having the experience to gain confidence in the ring/at the trial. I haven't trialed in agility but before returning to work on our RA I'm considering entering Squash in some Novice B just to get some trial experience back in as it's been a long time.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> How many runs do you get in your show no go? I'm guessing it's similar to our run throughs. I would do a novice course her first run out honestly- build confidence for both her and you. It sounds like you just need some trial experience for her- give her something she can go out and nail. If it goes well, i'd switch to open for the other runs


It's basically a 'fun match', where it's a trial environment but without the judge/judging and opportunity for points (though some people will be doing V runs).

We can have as many as we want, basically. Kylie rarely is good for more than 3 in a given day - if we do full courses.  So definitely easy enough to let her have the novice run and then switch to open if the new environment isn't throwing her and she's happy and confident. That actually is my biggest concern - if I stress or she doesn't feel successful she'll kind of bail. Fortunately, I can do what I want in the ring, including back off, reward, play with toys, or make up my own course. We get two minutes at a pop out there. Checking her at novice and then going forward (or not) is probably the best possible compromise. 

Though for the record, this is Kylie. Kylie already trials and is pretty cool with that (I was not at all clear) she just hasn't titled in Novice. This is a new location, though, and it has been a while since she's done any agility at all. 

MOLLY my plan is pretty much 'go, go on the course, and either play tug or maybe do a short sequence or two and get lots and lots of play and running around and goofiness'. 



sassafras said:


> I agree that there's benefit to having the experience to gain confidence in the ring/at the trial. I haven't trialed in agility but before returning to work on our RA I'm considering entering Squash in some Novice B just to get some trial experience back in as it's been a long time.


Yeah. She's had about a month off, and I really wasn't accounting for that. Sliding her back to a super easy course and then moving forward is probably the best idea. There are only 3 classes, but each regular/standard will go elite/open/novice. I can do novice on the first and open on the second - or not, depending. The first course being run is T 'n G, which has no levels at all, just time differentials, so I may skip that one entirely, even. ...less because of levels, mind and more because I don't much like Touch 'n Go.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I'll echo the vote for running an easier course to build confidence. The fun run is supposed to test your trial prep more than your actual training, so I would run easy.

Have a blast, either way!


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie said:


> I'll echo the vote for running an easier course to build confidence. The fun run is supposed to test your trial prep more than your actual training, so I would run easy.
> 
> Have a blast, either way!


Me too! I'm in Excellent Std and Open JWW with Zoey...I would probably be running Open courses at a fun match hoping its slightly easier and maybe a couple less obstacles so I can build confidence in that trial environment.


----------



## Laurelin

Yep I would do novice too. I'm hoping to find some fun runs around here. There may be one the day before the NADAC trial and then before the UKC trial. Not planning on entering the trials but planning on fun runs. May have to join the AKC agility club, I hear they do members only fun runs sometimes.


----------



## CptJack

I'm kind of surprised that we're having them - this will be 2 and 3 since the start of August. So there'll end up being 3 in 2 months, though I missed the first one. I'm sure as heck not complaining, though! Usually our trial lead up just has courses set for run throughs/practices. Not that this is much different, but it is different enough. Also provides some revenue for the club which is nice, even if it's only a tiny little bit. (Our run throughs are free to club members).


----------



## LoMD13

Run throughs here are close enough to trial enviroment. Ring is opened up, lots of strange dogs/people everywhere, loud, busy etc. I'm trying to decide if we want to be good eggs and do run-throughs (and nursing home) this weekend or go away for the weekend and hike the sand dunes.


----------



## CptJack

We're back in agility classes - intermediate/the last official class. 

Molly did pretty well. Saved me once when I nearly called her off the obstacle she was supposed to take, I over complicated something that should have had no crosses by putting in TWO, and I could apparently not decide what commands I was using/got tongue tied a lot, but I'm really pleased with how she's doing. She's not knocking bars anymore, she's sticking her contacts, she's going where I direct her and holding start line stays decently. 

Really looking forward to seeing how she does with the show 'n go on Sunday.


----------



## pawsaddict

CptJack said:


> We're back in agility classes - intermediate/the last official class.
> 
> Molly did pretty well. Saved me once when I nearly called her off the obstacle she was supposed to take, I over complicated something that should have had no crosses by putting in TWO, and I could apparently not decide what commands I was using/got tongue tied a lot, but I'm really pleased with how she's doing. She's not knocking bars anymore, she's sticking her contacts, she's going where I direct her and holding start line stays decently.
> 
> Really looking forward to seeing how she does with the show 'n go on Sunday.


Way to go, you two! Sounds like a great class overall.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## CptJack

pawsaddict said:


> Way to go, you two! Sounds like a great class overall.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


Thanks! 

We still have a long way to go, but I'm overall pretty pleased. 

The dog I see at home and the dog I see in class really are not even close to the same. The handler she sees at class and at home aren't really the same either, so it's fair. She's stressed about the other dogs, I'm stressed about her. She stresses high and is fast as heck anyway. I'm tense and preoccupied with what the other dogs are doing, and the combination is a lot less like agility and a lot more like some sort of barely contained explosion that happens to more or less go where it should. 

But we're both getting better. She's staying with me and working with me. She's taking the obstacles she needs to take, when she needs to take them. She's hitting contacts and sticking them. I'm relaxing as she does and she's relaxing and becoming more confident as I do. We'll keep plugging away with it and doing every freaking event, class, and lesson we can find and hopefully somewhere along the way it'll come together so that we keep the speed but gain some control.


----------



## kadylady

Just purchased my first new piece of agility equipment for the new yard!! Bought a tunnel from NTI Global! They currently have 15% off all made to order tunnels that ends tonight if anyone is interested.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> Just purchased my first new piece of agility equipment for the new yard!! Bought a tunnel from NTI Global! They currently have 15% off all made to order tunnels that ends tonight if anyone is interested.


Don't tell me this! I kind of want to buy a tunnel, even though I don't really need one right now. I was going to wait until next year but now I'm like "Sale! Sale is good! I can buy things on sale!" Haha ETA: What color did you get?



Someone posted this to the Welshie FB page and it's awesome. It's a woman in a motorized wheelchair doing agility with her Welsh:
https://www.facebook.com/Huti57/videos/598031527002938/


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> Don't tell me this! I kind of want to buy a tunnel, even though I don't really need one right now. I was going to wait until next year but now I'm like "Sale! Sale is good! I can buy things on sale!" Haha ETA: What color did you get?


Do it!!! I got a 15' 6" pitch purple one.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> Do it!!! I got a 15' 6" pitch purple one.


I want a 15'/6" teal one  Did you get the holders too? I'm kind of thinking about it since the tunnel isn't really that much and shipping is free (I assumed shipping would be crazy expensive) but the bags to hold it add another $100.

ETA: I guess since it would be outside use only I could get something cheaper like this:
http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=516&ParentCat=761


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> I want a 15'/6" teal one  Did you get the holders too? I'm kind of thinking about it since the tunnel isn't really that much and shipping is free (I assumed shipping would be crazy expensive) but the bags to hold it add another $100.


I didn't get bags from there. Thought about it but, I'm going to shop around and look into possibly some DIY options for the time being. I figured it won't come for 3-4 weeks so I have some time to figure out what I'm going to do for holders. Trying to spend as little money as possible since we just bought a new house lol


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> I didn't get bags from there. Thought about it but, I'm going to shop around and look into possibly some DIY options for the time being. I figured it won't come for 3-4 weeks so I have some time to figure out what I'm going to do for holders. Trying to spend as little money as possible since we just bought a new house lol


That's true, there are decent DIY options. I'm sure that's the kind of thing my husband would look at and say "I could make that for you". And then I would say "But you'll never get around to it" LOL

So I just pinged him (we're at work) and said "So the main place to get agility tunnels is having a 15% off sale for today only ... "


----------



## elrohwen

DH said to go for it! Yay!

Though now we're arguing color. I want teal, he wants yellow or something super bright so it doesn't blend in with the environment. Pretty sure blue does not blend in with grass  Plus it matches my jumps.


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> DH said to go for it! Yay!
> 
> Though now we're arguing color. I want teal, he wants yellow or something super bright so it doesn't blend in with the environment. Pretty sure blue does not blend in with grass  Plus it matches my jumps.


Yay!! I did the same thing with my DH at work this morning! lol "these things NEVER go on sale!"


----------



## Laurelin

Hank and I are doing a public agility demo today at the race track. So that could potentially be interesting. I'm brining his toy. xD


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Hank and I are doing a public agility demo today at the race track. So that could potentially be interesting. I'm brining his toy. xD


Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

--

Our Show 'n Go is tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it mostly. Little bit nervous about Molly, but we'll see what we see.

Lesson today was good. Did a jumpers course and didn't get lost. That's a victory; I've always been scared of jumpers because of lack of landmarks. I DID push Kylie into a tunnel because I wasn't even remotely prepared for the speed she built up, and had some trouble with a serp which was weird because I've never had issues with them before. Realized the reason I had trouble with it was because for every other one ever, I've kept the dog on one arm. This time I was trying to do a side-change (with a rear post turn, I think) between jumps 2 and 3 and it just was not working well. I couldn't figure out where I needed to be not to crowd the dog, and Kylie wasn't sure what the heck was up. 

I didn't even realize that was WHY I was having trouble until I left practice, but that's clearly something I need to work on. My timing was absolute crap at the start, too, but that cleaned up pretty quickly. 

Otherwise discriminations and weaves (awesome - on and off side are both equally strong now), pulling off the obvious discrimination to another sequence from the start-line (also fine), and a sequence from last year's champs. That one was kind of hard - we got it once, tried it a second way, and then her brain gave out and she was just like 'I'm gonna go sniff now'. Oh and her contacts were really pretty good, too - we're working on her hitting them at more distance from me, and she did well with that. 

Mostly it's just really good to be back doing agility.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and we had a really hard time with a rear cross into a tunnel. First time I've seen any rear cross confusion from her, but there was something about that particular set up (tunnel was under the dog walk and was coming off something else) that made it really hard. I literally walked her to the tunnel and pointed her into it before she got it. I'd feel worse about that one but according to Awesome Trainer Lady, lots of dogs have issues with that - including one of hers. 

Basically, it wasn't a lesson where everything went right and we nailed it all - but it was better/my favorite kind. We got lots of useful information for stuff to think about and work on, but it wasn't a total disaster and there were lots of really good bits.


----------



## Laurelin

For the record the new rip n tug ball from clean run is way sturdier than the old ones. I really like them.


----------



## sassafras

Ugh I have the worst habit of giving Squash mixed signals on jumps. Like, mentally (and obviously physically based on his reactions) anticipating the next obstacle before he has committed to a jump, so he jigs in front of it instead of taking it. Bad handler.


----------



## CptJack

I pull Molly off a lot - not Kylie, Kylie my timing is either slow or fine with, but Molly I'm too fast with. I think it's feeling like I'm going to lose control of her/need to speed up to stay in control? That or my handling just isn't adequately different for a very, very green dog. Either way: sympathy from another bad handler. 

Timing is HARD.


----------



## elrohwen

sassafras said:


> Ugh I have the worst habit of giving Squash mixed signals on jumps. Like, mentally (and obviously physically based on his reactions) anticipating the next obstacle before he has committed to a jump, so he jigs in front of it instead of taking it. Bad handler.


I have a really hard time with this same thing with Watson. He's much more handler focused than obstacle focused. Definitely not one of those dogs who would ever run off taking random obstacles (though he would run off to do other things ... haha). I have to wait for him to commit before I do anything or I will pull him off of it.



kadylady said:


> Yay!! I did the same thing with my DH at work this morning! lol "these things NEVER go on sale!"


Let me know what you come up with for DIY holders. DH was way against buying the $50 sandbags from the site, and even though the tunnel belts from Clean Run were way too expensive at $15 each.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Let me know what you come up with for DIY holders. DH was way against buying the $50 sandbags from the site, and even though the tunnel belts from Clean Run were way too expensive at $15 each.


Milk jugs filled with sand (two per side, per end) - use the handles for straps of whatever sort.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Milk jugs filled with sand (two per side, per end) - use the handles for straps of whatever sort.


Just tied together with rope? Or nylon straps? Velcro so the length is adjustable?


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Just tied together with rope? Or nylon straps? Velcro so the length is adjustable?


I used rope for a while and it worked just fine. I ultimately ended up with this stuff: https://www.velcro.com/products/tie...47323a&shape=c1ee2e89490d4d14806097a432cbaaf8


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I used rope for a while and it worked just fine. I ultimately ended up with this stuff: https://www.velcro.com/products/tie...47323a&shape=c1ee2e89490d4d14806097a432cbaaf8


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Looks like I need to start buying milk in gallons instead of half gallons!

Do you use two or three sets on a 15' tunnel? I could always make more but hoping it will be fine with 2 to start. I don't have very large or fast/drivey dogs anyway.


----------



## CptJack

I actually use 4 sets on a tunnel (mine's 10 feet, because I have limited room) with 2 sets at each end. But... Molly, you know? She slams through just about everything. One on each end would do it for Kylie, in spite of her occasionally coming out of tunnels sideways because she banks up on the sides, but I need 2 for Molly and truthfully could probably use 3. Start with 2, be prepared to add if you need to?


----------



## sassafras

Yea I was all excited because I got a tunnel during a flash sale and then when it arrived I realized I had no weights. *sad trombone* Time to start drinking my milk, too! 


Also, I would just like to say it is really, really nice to have a dog who has no fear of any equipment. Squash is basically the only dog in his class who has no worries whatsoever about the teeter in particular and it makes my life sooooooo much easier.


----------



## elrohwen

Ok, good to know that two sets will be enough to get us started. I can always add more as I drink more milk. Haha. I usually only get through about a half gallon per week though, so it might take me a while. DH drinks a lot of OJ so I could sub in gallon OJ containers.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, just whatever. Heck, buying a gallon of that gross kool-aid stuff and dumping it out would be about a buck and get you jugs if you get in a crunch. I just defaulted to milk because I've got two teenage boys. A gallon of milk here lasts 2 days. ...stuff NOT milk would probably be better, actually. If you do use milk, wash them well because ew (I'm sure you know that, but.)


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Yeah, just whatever. Heck, buying a gallon of that gross kool-aid stuff and dumping it out would be about a buck and get you jugs if you get in a crunch. I just defaulted to milk because I've got two teenage boys. A gallon of milk here lasts 2 days. ...stuff NOT milk would probably be better, actually. If you do use milk, wash them well because ew (I'm sure you know that, but.)


When I was a teenager I drank 3 gallons a week, basically by myself. I have no idea how I did that. lol


----------



## CptJack

I was just looking at a premium for one of my October Trials and it said "measuring starts at 2:30 A.M on Friday" and died. I *hope* they mean 2:30 p.m, and I'm not entering Friday either way, but Jesus.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank did good. He did much much better on our second demo. The one for tv wasn't as great as the later demo but overall I'm REALLY pleased with how he did with the chaos of the event. There were probably 500+ people and dogs there so overall it went well. 

And all my friends are getting agility puppies! I want one!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Yeah I got SUPER lucky and snagged 3 used tunnels for $100 (1 NTI 20', 1 J&J 20', 1 NTI 15'). Then realized that I need bags haha. I'll probably just use something DIY until I can buy nicer ones. I like the idea of having legit tunnel bags. Though since the tunnels have been used, they actually stay in place pretty well LOL.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Well, home from our Saturday trial. The weather was not good, gale force winds which wrecked a bunch of shade tents before they could be taken down. Kris was off to a wild start as she had never trained outside, always just in the arena. She settled down and what she did do was great. Hit all her contacts, never knocked a jump down and got her weaves in both her classes. I found out how much harder it was with a big dog than my little Shih Tzu x Maltese but we got along pretty good, no Q's but pleased with all three dogs. Lucy is going to be great with a little more experience, she is very fast for a little dog. Just one picture someone took but we are back at it again today. The wind was so bad it kept blowing over the jumps but looks like better weather today.


----------



## CptJack

I am more nervous about doing this show 'n go with Molly than I was Kylie's first trial. It isn't until 5, we'll leave about 4, and I'm already all nervous. Hopefully it'll wear off before I have to try and do anything with her in the ring.


----------



## Laurelin

Laurelin said:


> Hank did good. He did much much better on our second demo. The one for tv wasn't as great as the later demo but overall I'm REALLY pleased with how he did with the chaos of the event. There were probably 500+ people and dogs there so overall it went well.
> 
> And all my friends are getting agility puppies! I want one!


I hear that I won't find out if Hank and I made the tv cut for a few weeks. They videoed 8 dogs of varying sizes and breeds for the clip to pick and choose from. The cameraman liked Hank but he said he doesn't pick the final cut. I'll let y'all know. It'd be cool if Hank made it. I know it's just local tv but Summer and Mia have been on the show doing nosework.


Yay Jari and Kris! She is so pretty!


----------



## dogsule

Kyllobernese said:


> Well, home from our Saturday trial. The weather was not good, gale force winds which wrecked a bunch of shade tents before they could be taken down. Kris was off to a wild start as she had never trained outside, always just in the arena. She settled down and what she did do was great. Hit all her contacts, never knocked a jump down and got her weaves in both her classes. I found out how much harder it was with a big dog than my little Shih Tzu x Maltese but we got along pretty good, no Q's but pleased with all three dogs. Lucy is going to be great with a little more experience, she is very fast for a little dog. Just one picture someone took but we are back at it again today. The wind was so bad it kept blowing over the jumps but looks like better weather today.


Love that shot. Sounds like a good day despite the conditions. Not sure Belle would focus very well outside like that.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> I hear that I won't find out if Hank and I made the tv cut for a few weeks. They videoed 8 dogs of varying sizes and breeds for the clip to pick and choose from. The cameraman liked Hank but he said he doesn't pick the final cut. I'll let y'all know. It'd be cool if Hank made it. I know it's just local tv but Summer and Mia have been on the show doing nosework.


Good luck, hope he makes the cut!!


----------



## dogsule

Well we hadn't done any agility training for about a week and a half and we had a trial yesterday. Decided to go ahead and do FAST this time too. So we had three runs, AKC Open Standard, Novice FAST and Open Jumpers. Belle Q'd in all three!! I was over the moon yesterday with excitement. Never have we gotten more than one Q in a day. This was only our 9th trial and while none of the runs were perfect (she did get a perfect score in jumpers but it could have looked better) Belle just did awesome with my commands. I have to post the videos tomorrow as I have to get ready for work right now but had to post this!!

Got a 95 in Open Standard, 2nd place (of 3 in her height division)
11242688_761082950667519_4691950277730152075_n by rzyg, on Flickr

NoviceB Fast, got third out of 7 dogs in her height division...
11953039_761130200662794_4357485567706311176_n by rzyg, on Flickr

and Open Jumpers 100 and first place out of four dogs in her height....
11890928_761130133996134_3253399355011710768_n by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## kadylady

Congrats dogsule and Belle! That's fantastic!


----------



## sassafras

Nice! Congratulations!


----------



## CptJack

WAY TO GO BELL! That is AWESOME!

--

Our show 'n go did not go badly at all. 

Molly's two biggest brags were that she *chilled* in her crate rather than being a nutball and held her start-line stays. She had two turns in the ring but neither one was anything much. I got her out there and did a big horseshoe of the outside obstacles. She didn't even do that fantastically - she ran to investigate a couple of times, wasn't listening super well, and didn't get the lack of a bucket at the end of the contact obstacles - but man I'm proud of her. She held her stays, she didn't lose her crap in her crate, she worked with me some, and she did it all surrounded by strange dogs. Mostly, the only times she reacted were when someone else did. I'm REALLY proud of that.

Kylie... I didn't take your advice. The only novice courses going on were at the very end and frankly I wasn't sure there were going to BE novice runs. She did one, but it was the last one of the night. It was also the only run she screwed up on repeatedly. She was just done by that point. Her other two runs were AWESOME - one Touch 'n go, but also elite regular. There was no frustration, the only real mistakes were in lost time and some really wide turns calling her off contacts she would have liked to have taken. She got all 12 weaves, she nailed EVERY SINGLE discrimination. She was just on fire, and it was beautiful. People *applauded* for her multiple times on that elite regular course, and complimented us afterward. She really impressed people. It just. It felt good, and it was the confidence boost we needed. 

I'm starting to think that maybe I can edge my long term agility goals with Kylie up from 'get a Q, and maybe a NAC' to actually, maybe, getting into Elite? Maybe?

Video did not happen. Neither did pictures, except the one I took myself:










But have it.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, also, someone I don't know at all and had never seen before and seemed to just be a spectator took a picture of Kylie. Also, also she got called the cutest dog in the room by someone. 

Annnnd I threw my leash at the leash runner with such accuracy that I wrapped it around their legs. Molly's leather leash. I could not have done that if I tried and I felt so bad. They were nice and all but, whoops.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Oh, also, someone I don't know at all and had never seen before and seemed to just be a spectator took a picture of Kylie. Also, also she got called the cutest dog in the room by someone.
> 
> Annnnd I threw my leash at the leash runner with such accuracy that I wrapped it around their legs. Molly's leather leash. I could not have done that if I tried and I felt so bad. They were nice and all but, whoops.


Aww, on the cute comment and ROFL on the leash incident. Sounded like a good day!!


----------



## dogsule

Ok, got my videos uploaded. Tried Youtube this time, tried it before and it wouldn't work so we will see how this goes.


Ok, how do you get the video to show right here on this page from You tube???


----------



## Kyllobernese

You click on Share and highlight the number and put it in your post.


----------



## dogsule

When I click on share a bunch of options come up on where to share it to (like Facebook Tumblr etc) , or this link, that is it.

https://youtu.be/FAiaAeRKzPw

This is the link to one of the videos however I want the actual video to show and play on this page. How do I do that?


----------



## trainingjunkie

Nice run! This works just fine and it's how I always post my links!

Congratulations!


----------



## dogsule

Yeah, I know it works but I wanted to have the videos play on this page like some of the others do. Thanks!!


----------



## dogsule

Ok, since I cannot get YouTube to work I will just use photobucket like I have before.

Belle's Open Standard run from Saturday, scored a 95, only fault was by the A frame when she wanted to go visit my daughter who was filming...








Belle's Open Jumpers run from Saturday, scored a perfect 100, sort of slow start though...


----------



## Laurelin

Congrats everyone on all your successes! We have a good group of dogs! 



dogsule said:


> When I click on share a bunch of options come up on where to share it to (like Facebook Tumblr etc) , or this link, that is it.
> 
> https://youtu.be/FAiaAeRKzPw
> 
> This is the link to one of the videos however I want the actual video to show and play on this page. How do I do that?


Let's see if this works.






Basically you put in (without the spaces)

[youtube ] FAiaAeRKzPw [ /youtube]


----------



## dogsule

Thanks Laurelin!! Ok, lets try this for Belle's Fast run...

This is AKC, Novice FAST...she totally blew me off in the beginning then saw that second jump and wanted to go there instead of where I wanted to go. I just decided the easiest was to go around the outer edge and get enough points plus the send. I had no doubt she would get this send. I haven't done FAST since we first started trialing as I didn't have a send yet with her.


----------



## sassafras

The video linky thing here also hates YouTube's https. If you just erase the s, it will work fine. Thusly.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Finished our two day trial on the weekend, no Q's but since it was both Kris and Lucy's first trial and Remmy has been off for about a year and a half, they all did pretty good. The only picture I have someone else took and posted to facebook. The weather was really wild, gale force winds that kept blowing jumps down and ruined a few shade tents before they could be taken down. Kris may not have Q'd but she hit all her contacts, never knocked a jump over and entered and did the weaves well, not the fastest but that will come. Lucy did well too and is going to be really fast. Remmy was his usual self, loves tunnels too much.


----------



## LoMD13

Congratulations to you and Belle!! Those were some nice runs, she looks so solid.

So glad to hear of everyone's successes this weekend!


----------



## CptJack

We're entering 'agility season' again.

From now until the end of October, I will be doing agility at least 3 times a week - Kylie's lesson, Molly's class, and club practices. That's not counting show 'n goes and trials. And I *might*, maybe, possibly (not likely be maybe) be able to get a lesson with Molly in there, too. I'm so, so looking forward to it all. It's all chaotic and busy, but I love it so much. 

And it's going to be so, so good for Molly.


----------



## LoMD13

Same here! For the first time, I actually have to skip out on some trials next month because there are just too many. We're going to do USDAA and NADAC and skip out on Teacup.


----------



## CptJack

Yep. I'm actually probably going to *not* do that second trial in October, at this point. Weird as it sounds, I would rather have my lesson and just do the home trial that's the week after, though I admit I've waffled pretty hard on whether or not to do that trial from the start, since I can only do one day of it, it's more expensive than my local trials, and it's further away than I really feel like doing so it's just a convenient excuse. 

Schedule for the next week is:
Tuesday: Class 
Thursday: Practice 
Saturday: Lesson
Monday: Practice
Tuesday: Class

Not sure where/if there will be practice during the week following, but that weekend is trial. It's split between Molly, Kylie, and both, but there is a lot going on. Like more than I've ever had going on with it, and it's going to be so much fun.

And to think, I spent MONTHS, maybe even a year, saying "I hate agility". 

LOL. Just... LOL.


----------



## sassafras

I feel like I will never be confident enough to trial. Reading about your trials almost gives me a wee stomachache lol.


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> I feel like I will never be confident enough to trial. Reading about your trials almost gives me a wee stomachache lol.


Honestly? I started this year going 'I just want to do 1!'. Then I did one and realized that it's really not scary or high pressure. I'd be terrified of, say, a rally trial, but the agility stuff I do? Eh. They are so crazy laid back and easy. Like... more laid back than my classes, in a lot of ways. It's just like a picnic with other dog people where you periodically go play agility. And watching elite dogs mess up a lot was great for my confidence (or at least making me not be self-conscious). ...I'm awful.

Anyway, I am anxious as heck but it's just so, so, not a particularly big thing. Maybe helped by me being the opposite of ambitious and competitive, but it's so much fun to spend a whole weekend doing agility and hanging out with agility people.


----------



## sassafras

Also I don't think I am ever going to successfully teach Squash to weave consistently lol.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I think seeing the dogs that have been doing Agility for years and trained by really good trainers and they still make mistakes makes you not be a worried about what your dogs do. The whole idea of Agility for me is having fun with my dog and doing something with them. I have done a lot of Obedience with Kris while I could not do the Agility but Agility is what I really love to do.

At the trial this coming weekend, I have two runs Friday night, five on Saturday and seven on Sunday with my three dogs so that will certainly keep me going. After that there is not another trial until November, our only indoor trial. I will still keep training on Wednesdays and Saturdays till the weather gets too cold for Agility, then I will be back to just doing Obedience as it can be done in a heated building.


----------



## CptJack

sassafras said:


> Also I don't think I am ever going to successfully teach Squash to weave consistently lol.


I taught Kylie to weave consistently!

I've taught her to weave consistently 3 times now! 

I'm clearly the best at training weaves. (LOL. No.)


----------



## trainingjunkie

sassafras said:


> Also I don't think I am ever going to successfully teach Squash to weave consistently lol.


Go run CPE! Level one doesn't have weaves! I would love to watch him run!


----------



## CptJack

OR NADAC! For a helpful answer, if you have that there. You could do Touch 'n Go, Jumpers, or Tunnelers and never see a weave pole.


----------



## elrohwen

We're doing another private agility lesson tonight! Wish me luck! I have not had a lot of luck working with new trainers, so I'm a bit nervous. 

I really really like the woman I took a lesson with in CT, but our schedules didn't line up for a couple weeks so I haven't been back to see her. I was randomly contacted by someone from the place we used to go who said she has tonight free (my initial email to them was in March ... this is how long it's taken to set up one lesson!). Previously nobody could work with me because the facility is used for classes and shows evenings and weekends, but they are between classes so she contacted me. I'm going to take both dogs and split the time between them. I checked out her bio online and she owns Eskies and buhunds, which makes me happy and hopeful that she will have some good ideas for a less biddable dog.


----------



## elrohwen

I also really hope this turns into at least a couple regular lessons. This first one is probably going to be a wash, since she will just want to see where we're at and what we can do. The most frustrating thing about switching trainers all the time is having to start over with someone who has no idea what you know or what you've worked on.


----------



## dogsule

sassafras said:


> I feel like I will never be confident enough to trial. Reading about your trials almost gives me a wee stomachache lol.


I have never yet felt good about my handling ability. I always feel like I don't know what I am doing. I totally give Belle credit for doing so well most of the time. The problem is when you start, if your dog is like mine, they are so unpredictable that it makes it hard and almost makes you feel worse. I am getting more confident though, this past weekend was just an all time high for me and Belle and the funny thing is, I was thinking about not doing the trial in Sept but now I have to! Maybe we are on a roll. I think it gets easier as you progress and you won't get the experience unless you go for it.


----------



## dogsule

sassafras said:


> Also I don't think I am ever going to successfully teach Squash to weave consistently lol.


I totally taught Belle to weave by myself with no instruction. I have no clue why but she does it very well. However I still don't feel confident in her weaves to leave her, if I move out more she pulls out sometimes which is why in my videos I am right next to her the whole way. In time I will trust that she will do things with me being further away but right now yet I feel the need to stay close for most things.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> I have never yet felt good about my handling ability. I always feel like I don't know what I am doing. I totally give Belle credit for doing so well most of the time. The problem is when you start, if your dog is like mine, they are so unpredictable that it makes it hard and almost makes you feel worse. I am getting more confident though, this past weekend was just an all time high for me and Belle and the funny thing is, I was thinking about not doing the trial in Sept but now I have to! Maybe we are on a roll. I think it gets easier as you progress and you won't get the experience unless you go for it.


Honestly, I know I'm not the most experienced person out there - or here - but I've seen dogs at elite levels, dogs who have gone to nationals and gotten multiple places at them, blow contacts, fail discrimination, pop weaves, leave startline stays, whatever. They're dogs. I don't think there's any such thing as a totally predictable dog. Dogs that are more likely to get it right, dogs who have more training and therefore more options for how you handle things, but not really predictable ones.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Honestly, I know I'm not the most experienced person out there - or here - but I've seen dogs at elite levels, dogs who have gone to nationals and gotten multiple places at them, blow contacts, fail discrimination, pop weaves, leave startline stays, whatever. They're dogs. I don't think there's any such thing as a totally predictable dog. Dogs that are more likely to get it right, dogs who have more training and therefore more options for how you handle things, but not really predictable ones.


I meant when you first start and it is all new to the dog and they go visiting the judge, check out a doorway, the floor or barsetters etc. Usually once they get used to things they don't do stuff like that anymore as they know you want them to stay on course so to speak. But yeah, they are never totally predictable.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Kris' first class at last weekend's trial, she had never trained outside. She got the zoomies, did some obstacles then ran out of the ring and raced around. The next class she did better but still was going to run out of the ring but I had my sister there to stop her. Have you ever tried to get hold of a Doberman without a collar on? She did manage to slow her down so I could get her. After that in all her classes she never attempted to leave the ring even when the last obstacle was a tunnel facing the out gate. She really was not ready to run yet but I am sure she enjoyed herself a lot more than being left at home and I am sure cannot do anything but get better. (at least I hope so)


----------



## CptJack

Two noteworthy things from tonight's class with Molly:

I managed a front cross with her where the timing was right, and that wasn't ugly or awkward. 

And, the real thing:

We had this moment toward the end of the class while we were doing our sequence that we actually felt like we were in tune, and a team. Just the one, mind you, but it actually just for that little short sequence felt like we had some control and team work going on, and like she was really, actually, listening and responding to me. It was beautiful. I felt like I was doing agility *with* her. 

I need to get the stuff in my yard set up again (it's still torn down from vacation), but with agility every other day or so, I don't know when it's going to happen. Probably over the long weekend. We're agility free from Saturday morning until Monday evening, though husband and eldest have a thing Sunday evening.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Obi did 12 weaves for the first time ever in class on Monday 

We've only done 6 at home. Been using 2x2 method and trying with 6 poles, gap, then another 6 poles, but he hasn't been very good at them. In class, they set up a simple sequence, including 12 weave poles. I thought we'd give it a go. He messed it up the first time, but nailed it the second time  I was very impressed.

In other news, neither of my dogs understand threadles, or rather, my arm cue for threadles. They are getting really good at the cues for jump long, turn tight, go around the backside, etc, but for some reason both of them struggle with threadles. I think I will leave them for a while and work on other stuff and get back to them in a few weeks.


----------



## elrohwen

Last night was our first private lesson with a new instructor and it went really well! She is the first person I've seen lately who saw the same issues with Watson that I see, and her response to that was basically, "Yeah, that's not a big deal. We can fix that." So yay! We are going to meet weekly on Tuesdays.

Waton pros:
She agreed that his recall is actually pretty good, but his problem is staying with me after the recall. Exactly what I've been saying for a while. Her homework for us is pretty much exactly what I've been doing in the FDSA Engagement class (take him to new places, reward for offered attention, do some long line recalls when he's really interested in sniffing something). 

Cons: 
As we were leaving she said "Just so you know there are cats around the barn" right as Watson saw one and started screaming. And then he got the leash out of my hand and took off after a cat. I would have caught him except I was dragging Hazel behind (should have let her go). Luckily the cat didn't go outside, but Watson chased him around the barn and up into the hay loft. So embarrassing. When we came back down the trainer said "So I guess his recall doesn't stand up to cats". Lol. No. Definitely not. I wish the cat had swatted him on the nose and taught him a lesson.

Hazel's lesson was fun. I definitely need to push my husband to finish the wobble board because she was weird about moving stuff. She loved everything else though. We just introduced her to the tunnel and chute and the first time through she was like "oh, weird new surface!" and the second time through she was like "I got this! Lemme go!" Hazel's embarrassing moment was when I didn't close her crate fully and she got out and came to find us in the ring. At least her recall is good. Haha.


----------



## LoMD13

You should probably just bring Squash to trial here so we can have the silliest pairs run evah.


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

We had a not-so-great class yesterday. Nova was super sniffy and totally unfocused. Anytime there was a pause in her movement (like on a contact) she basically took off to sniff and became completely distracted. And she was pretty much totally done for the 15-20mins of class.

Not sure what was up with her... I mean, she's not always the most focused dog in the whole wide world, but this was a whole new level for her. Usually she listens quite well, but it was like she didn't even hear me for most of that class. She was incredibly hard to motivate. I think she was maybe thrown off by a couple of the dogs in our class. As soon as we entered the building, a crated dog started to bark at her and she got pretty scared. Then there were two reactive dogs in the class that would spontaneously go off barking. Maybe all that just stressed her out way too much? Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring thing.


Add: Now that I think about it, since starting classes at the new club, she has been more distracted (not to last night's level, but noticeably moreso than usual). Every class we have taken has been small and quiet. Now we have two classes going on at the same time (separated by a gate) and reactive/vocal dogs in the class. It's pretty different than what she is used to. Add in all the new tough stuff we are learning and maybe it's too much for her right now?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



pawsaddict said:


> We had a not-so-great class yesterday. Nova was super sniffy and totally unfocused. Anytime there was a pause in her movement (like on a contact) she basically took off to sniff and became completely distracted. And she was pretty much totally done for the 15-20mins of class.
> 
> Not sure what was up with her... I mean, she's not always the most focused dog in the whole wide world, but this was a whole new level for her. Usually she listens quite well, but it was like she didn't even hear me for most of that class. She was incredibly hard to motivate. I think she was maybe thrown off by a couple of the dogs in our class. As soon as we entered the building, a crated dog started to bark at her and she got pretty scared. Then there were two reactive dogs in the class that would spontaneously go off barking. Maybe all that just stressed her out way too much? Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring thing.
> 
> 
> Add: Now that I think about it, since starting classes at the new club, she has been more distracted (not to last night's level, but noticeably moreso than usual). Every class we have taken has been small and quiet. Now we have two classes going on at the same time (separated by a gate) and reactive/vocal dogs in the class. It's pretty different than what she is used to. Add in all the new tough stuff we are learning and maybe it's too much for her right now?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


Obviously Watson struggles a lot with focus, and I know the barking dogs thing would totally weird him out for the whole class. So it could definitely be that.


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



elrohwen said:


> Obviously Watson struggles a lot with focus, and I know the barking dogs thing would totally weird him out for the whole class. So it could definitely be that.


Yeah, it was weird. I know that she can reach her working limit in some classes if the breaks aren't long enough and there are lots of new challenges, and I can recognize that. Sometimes she needs a bit of time to get into working mode. But last night was just so strange. The whole class was a struggle with focus.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## Finkie_Mom

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

So I've basically figured out that Jari's issues are completely related to other dogs. He seems to think that every male dog wants to eat him, and that every female dog must want to be his girlfriend. Any time he runs off in class (less and less frequent, thank goodness) it's because he is smelling where a dog was or checking to make sure he's safe from a dog. For example, there is a GSD that does obedience at the same time as our class in the next ring, and if the GSD is too close to the barrier in between rings, Jari WILL NOT go near there. At all. Better than having him aggress or something like that, but still not good. He's never gotten within maybe 8 feet of that dog, so it's not like there have been any issues. And even through the barrier, the GSD has never given us any trouble. Sigh. One day we will get there.

Kimma has been out of the agility game except for some ring rentals randomly because her anxiety is through the roof. Started her on some meds and trying more behavior mod, so I'm hopeful we'll compete again one day. The anxiety plus her shoulder injury in February has been making things quite interesting :/

So that's where we are at! Sadness and frustration LOL. But when either of them is happy and running and focused, they are amazing. So at least there are glimmers.


----------



## Laurelin

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I am SO so so so so so thrilled with this dog. Running him is SO MUCH FUN. 

We had an open agility practice night. There was one last week that I missed because I'm dumb and can't remember that weds is not thurs. Anyways I had heard there were only 6 or so dogs there and it's 2 hours long so I came tonight and I swear there were at least 25 dogs and about 12 were mini aussies. 

I still got to run twice and I also got to stay a bit late and help clean up and play a little longer.

Hank blew me away. We did a full 18 obstacle course and our first try wasn't great but it was connected and good in many places. We had some flubs- he didn't recognize the tire at first because it looked real different. That kind of stuff. Our second run we did 100% correct EXCEPT he did 2o/2o on the table instead of down. Hahaha

I got a lot of compliments on how my *handling* was (lmao). But he did just great. He flew through everything. Everything was smooth. There was no fumbling, no awkward running into each other, I was where I needed to be when I needed to be there, timing was great, hit his contacts and held them!, did his 12 weaves, did distance, was sprinting full speed the whole run, listened to me and did directionals, and to make it better I did not have his toy in sight (we're having some issues with the toy being a bit of a crutch). I was just so proud. It felt so natural and fun. 

As we cleaned up he held a down/stay in the middle of the ring off leash with 2 other dogs while I went around the room carrying equipment.

And I am really excited but I talked to the president of the UKC sport club and for a $35 yearly membership + going to 2 meetings at least twice a year + helping out at their trials I can use their agility field whenever I want! They said it is open almost all the time because they can't find enough instructors to teach so we can go practice whenever there are no classes. I'm stoked! Hope we can get out there 2x a week or so.


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



Finkie_Mom said:


> So I've basically figured out that Jari's issues are completely related to other dogs. He seems to think that every male dog wants to eat him, and that every female dog must want to be his girlfriend. Any time he runs off in class (less and less frequent, thank goodness) it's because he is smelling where a dog was or checking to make sure he's safe from a dog. For example, there is a GSD that does obedience at the same time as our class in the next ring, and if the GSD is too close to the barrier in between rings, Jari WILL NOT go near there. At all. Better than having him aggress or something like that, but still not good. He's never gotten within maybe 8 feet of that dog, so it's not like there have been any issues. And even through the barrier, the GSD has never given us any trouble. Sigh. One day we will get there.


He's still intact right? Do you think that has anything to do with it? I've had people suggest that I neuter Watson to make him less "doggie". Clearly the majority of his distraction issues are related to other dogs.



Also, Hank is awesome!! You guys are going to do big things together.


----------



## dogsule

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



pawsaddict said:


> We had a not-so-great class yesterday. Nova was super sniffy and totally unfocused. Anytime there was a pause in her movement (like on a contact) she basically took off to sniff and became completely distracted. And she was pretty much totally done for the 15-20mins of class.
> 
> Not sure what was up with her... I mean, she's not always the most focused dog in the whole wide world, but this was a whole new level for her. Usually she listens quite well, but it was like she didn't even hear me for most of that class. She was incredibly hard to motivate. I think she was maybe thrown off by a couple of the dogs in our class. As soon as we entered the building, a crated dog started to bark at her and she got pretty scared. Then there were two reactive dogs in the class that would spontaneously go off barking. Maybe all that just stressed her out way too much? Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring thing.
> 
> 
> Add: Now that I think about it, since starting classes at the new club, she has been more distracted (not to last night's level, but noticeably moreso than usual). Every class we have taken has been small and quiet. Now we have two classes going on at the same time (separated by a gate) and reactive/vocal dogs in the class. It's pretty different than what she is used to. Add in all the new tough stuff we are learning and maybe it's too much for her right now?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


Coming from someone with a dog with noise issues, I feel your pain but it will get better. Don't stop because you think it is too much for her, not that you were thinking of stopping or taking a break but just in case. Just treat her lots during the noises she doesn't like. When Belle did her first evening class last spring at the place we do trials she totally freaked at a noise that was coming from the grooming area. Wouldn't do anything on the course except try to escape to her kennel. I was terrified she would be like that during the trial but thankfully she wasn't. Took quite a few evening classes for her to get over it though, she somehow associated being there at night to the noise, would be fine during the day but not at night. She also had to overcome the fear of other dogs barking, mostly the border collies and shelties freaked her out on how they bark. She is fine with that now. Heck she used to be afraid of the teeter bang! She loved agility but really needed to get over a lot of the noises she didn't like. She has come a long way in the last 6+ months!


----------



## dogsule

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



Laurelin said:


> I am SO so so so so so thrilled with this dog. Running him is SO MUCH FUN.
> 
> We had an open agility practice night. There was one last week that I missed because I'm dumb and can't remember that weds is not thurs. Anyways I had heard there were only 6 or so dogs there and it's 2 hours long so I came tonight and I swear there were at least 25 dogs and about 12 were mini aussies.
> 
> I still got to run twice and I also got to stay a bit late and help clean up and play a little longer.
> 
> Hank blew me away. We did a full 18 obstacle course and our first try wasn't great but it was connected and good in many places. We had some flubs- he didn't recognize the tire at first because it looked real different. That kind of stuff. Our second run we did 100% correct EXCEPT he did 2o/2o on the table instead of down. Hahaha
> 
> I got a lot of compliments on how my *handling* was (lmao). But he did just great. He flew through everything. Everything was smooth. There was no fumbling, no awkward running into each other, I was where I needed to be when I needed to be there, timing was great, hit his contacts and held them!, did his 12 weaves, did distance, was sprinting full speed the whole run, listened to me and did directionals, and to make it better I did not have his toy in sight (we're having some issues with the toy being a bit of a crutch). I was just so proud. It felt so natural and fun.
> 
> As we cleaned up he held a down/stay in the middle of the ring off leash with 2 other dogs while I went around the room carrying equipment.
> 
> And I am really excited but I talked to the president of the UKC sport club and for a $35 yearly membership + going to 2 meetings at least twice a year + helping out at their trials I can use their agility field whenever I want! They said it is open almost all the time because they can't find enough instructors to teach so we can go practice whenever there are no classes. I'm stoked! Hope we can get out there 2x a week or so.


Wow, that all sounds awesome!!


----------



## dogsule

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

So speaking of noise issues....Here is Belle's latest. At the agility trial this past weekend they had a lure coursing thing set up and for $5 you could let your dog try it. I really thought Belle would love this as she is very driven by moving things. Approaching her ears went up at the bag (why don't they use a stuffed bunny or something, lol). However as another dog was running and we walked up Belle heard the whir of the motor that runs the lines and makes the bag move. Yep, we were done before we started. She just wanted to get away from that thing, no sense even trying (even though we did) she was so out of there. Have any of you heard that noise, it is so not threatening in anyway, but my goofy dog was afraid of it. At least now I know.......although I am sure it could be overcome with exposure to it as she has overcome other noise issues but we don't have access to lure coursing in my town so that is out for us. Oh well....


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



dogsule said:


> So speaking of noise issues....Here is Belle's latest. At the agility trial this past weekend they had a lure coursing thing set up and for $5 you could let your dog try it. I really thought Belle would love this as she is very driven by moving things. Approaching her ears went up at the bag (why don't they use a stuffed bunny or something, lol). However as another dog was running and we walked up Belle heard the whir of the motor that runs the lines and makes the bag move. Yep, we were done before we started. She just wanted to get away from that thing, no sense even trying (even though we did) she was so out of there. Have any of you heard that noise, it is so not threatening in anyway, but my goofy dog was afraid of it. At least now I know.......although I am sure it could be overcome with exposure to it as she has overcome other noise issues but we don't have access to lure coursing in my town so that is out for us. Oh well....



Hey, Watson freaked out because there was a fly buzzing around us when I tried to set him up in agility class. He was swarmed by wasps twice, but you'd think he would be over that by now. Dogs are weird!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



elrohwen said:


> He's still intact right? Do you think that has anything to do with it? I've had people suggest that I neuter Watson to make him less "doggie". Clearly the majority of his distraction issues are related to other dogs.


Yep! Still intact. Not sure if the issues are because of that or not. It would make sense because he's now 2.5 and since this breed matures slowly, it means he's actually hitting maturation now-ish. I have no plans to neuter him, so we will just up the behavior mod for him too, and I have some other training ideas. You probably saw this on Facebook, but he was definitely overwhelmed at the conformation show. Overall he did really well, but he just did NOT want to stop watching the other dogs outside the ring. We didn't go to group (got BOB though) because of it - instead we just played outside the ring, walked around aimlessly, and hung out a bit before leaving. Now he's passed out LOL. He did try for me, and never refused food or anything, so it's nowhere near as bad as Kimma was at her worst. He actually even was fine when a couple of dogs startled both of us by barking at him while they were in crates. He just laid down LOL.



Laurelin said:


> I am SO so so so so so thrilled with this dog. Running him is SO MUCH FUN.
> 
> We had an open agility practice night. There was one last week that I missed because I'm dumb and can't remember that weds is not thurs. Anyways I had heard there were only 6 or so dogs there and it's 2 hours long so I came tonight and I swear there were at least 25 dogs and about 12 were mini aussies.
> 
> I still got to run twice and I also got to stay a bit late and help clean up and play a little longer.
> 
> Hank blew me away. We did a full 18 obstacle course and our first try wasn't great but it was connected and good in many places. We had some flubs- he didn't recognize the tire at first because it looked real different. That kind of stuff. Our second run we did 100% correct EXCEPT he did 2o/2o on the table instead of down. Hahaha
> 
> I got a lot of compliments on how my *handling* was (lmao). But he did just great. He flew through everything. Everything was smooth. There was no fumbling, no awkward running into each other, I was where I needed to be when I needed to be there, timing was great, hit his contacts and held them!, did his 12 weaves, did distance, was sprinting full speed the whole run, listened to me and did directionals, and to make it better I did not have his toy in sight (we're having some issues with the toy being a bit of a crutch). I was just so proud. It felt so natural and fun.
> 
> As we cleaned up he held a down/stay in the middle of the ring off leash with 2 other dogs while I went around the room carrying equipment.
> 
> And I am really excited but I talked to the president of the UKC sport club and for a $35 yearly membership + going to 2 meetings at least twice a year + helping out at their trials I can use their agility field whenever I want! They said it is open almost all the time because they can't find enough instructors to teach so we can go practice whenever there are no classes. I'm stoked! Hope we can get out there 2x a week or so.


AWESOME!!!!! I'm so excited for you and Hank


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



Finkie_Mom said:


> Yep! Still intact. Not sure if the issues are because of that or not. It would make sense because he's now 2.5 and since this breed matures slowly, it means he's actually hitting maturation now-ish. I have no plans to neuter him, so we will just up the behavior mod for him too, and I have some other training ideas. You probably saw this on Facebook, but he was definitely overwhelmed at the conformation show. Overall he did really well, but he just did NOT want to stop watching the other dogs outside the ring. We didn't go to group (got BOB though) because of it - instead we just played outside the ring, walked around aimlessly, and hung out a bit before leaving. Now he's passed out LOL. He did try for me, and never refused food or anything, so it's nowhere near as bad as Kimma was at her worst. He actually even was fine when a couple of dogs startled both of us by barking at him while they were in crates. He just laid down LOL.


Yeah, I'm in the same spot with Watson. I really don't want to neuter him, though if I were 100% sure it would help I might. Apparently in Europe there are options to temporarily neuter (implant or drug) and then you can get an idea of how it will effect temperament before you do it, or you can wait for the effects to wear off and still use the dog for breeding. I wish we had something like that so I could at least try. I get a lot of people saying it's absolutely a big part of my problem, and then I get people who have the exact same problems that I have despite neutering their dog (often spaniels, because they are going to be sniffy and less focused in general vs a BC or something)

2.5 is a tough age! Glad he did well at the show even if he had a hard time of it. You guys don't show often, right? I showed Watson for the first time in a year and he was awful, so I think going routinely does make it easier for them. The first time in a while they're like "Ooo!! Look at all the dogs!!!"


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



dogsule said:


> Coming from someone with a dog with noise issues, I feel your pain but it will get better. Don't stop because you think it is too much for her, not that you were thinking of stopping or taking a break but just in case. Just treat her lots during the noises she doesn't like. When Belle did her first evening class last spring at the place we do trials she totally freaked at a noise that was coming from the grooming area. Wouldn't do anything on the course except try to escape to her kennel. I was terrified she would be like that during the trial but thankfully she wasn't. Took quite a few evening classes for her to get over it though, she somehow associated being there at night to the noise, would be fine during the day but not at night. She also had to overcome the fear of other dogs barking, mostly the border collies and shelties freaked her out on how they bark. She is fine with that now. Heck she used to be afraid of the teeter bang! She loved agility but really needed to get over a lot of the noises she didn't like. She has come a long way in the last 6+ months!


Thanks, dogsule! It's nice to hear that it gets better. You're right. It will probably take some time for her to get used to how super-charged this semi-new environment is. And yeah, we are definitely not going to quit or take a break (at least not until our forced break in between classes). 

Belle sounds a lot like Nova. Nova used to be pretty scared of that teeter bang too. She would jump every time. Now she seems to be fine with it. And yeah, she is not used to really used to super intense barking...especially directed towards her. Two of the dogs in our class are reactive towards other dogs, so when they go off, their barks mean business and that freaks her out.

On a good note, we had an instructor that night that Nova had never met before. I went to tell the instructor that Nova is nervous around strangers....and Nova jumped right up and gave her a hug and then enthusiastically accepted being pet. That was awesome to see 


Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



dogsule said:


> So speaking of noise issues....Here is Belle's latest. At the agility trial this past weekend they had a lure coursing thing set up and for $5 you could let your dog try it. I really thought Belle would love this as she is very driven by moving things. Approaching her ears went up at the bag (why don't they use a stuffed bunny or something, lol). However as another dog was running and we walked up Belle heard the whir of the motor that runs the lines and makes the bag move. Yep, we were done before we started. She just wanted to get away from that thing, no sense even trying (even though we did) she was so out of there. Have any of you heard that noise, it is so not threatening in anyway, but my goofy dog was afraid of it. At least now I know.......although I am sure it could be overcome with exposure to it as she has overcome other noise issues but we don't have access to lure coursing in my town so that is out for us. Oh well....


Sorry the lure coursing didn't go as planned. I don't think Nova would have done any better...last night, Nova jumped a bit at the sound of her own fart!

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## Finkie_Mom

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



elrohwen said:


> Yeah, I'm in the same spot with Watson. I really don't want to neuter him, though if I were 100% sure it would help I might. Apparently in Europe there are options to temporarily neuter (implant or drug) and then you can get an idea of how it will effect temperament before you do it, or you can wait for the effects to wear off and still use the dog for breeding. I wish we had something like that so I could at least try. I get a lot of people saying it's absolutely a big part of my problem, and then I get people who have the exact same problems that I have despite neutering their dog (often spaniels, because they are going to be sniffy and less focused in general vs a BC or something)
> 
> 2.5 is a tough age! Glad he did well at the show even if he had a hard time of it. You guys don't show often, right? I showed Watson for the first time in a year and he was awful, so I think going routinely does make it easier for them. The first time in a while they're like "Ooo!! Look at all the dogs!!!"


Oh yeah, we did one show when he was 9 months old, and that was it. So it's been like 2 years LOL. The good thing about Jari is that his body language is SUPER OBVIOUS. I know in an instant if he's stressed, and he's pretty good about trying to calm himself down. Honestly, I'm just praying that we get majors on him at the Specialty and then maybe try to single him with Pentti or something. There aren't majors around here EVER, so the Specialty is all I've got. I want to be done with conformation ASAP 

And in the grand scheme of things, if he never ends up being OK enough to compete in agility, then we still have lots of fun in classes and at ring rentals


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Kylie is nailing discriminations left, right, and center - even some super hard ones where the tunnel is the here instead of the out (that's rare) and the tunnel is curving away from me. We have some homework to do this week (and for a while) to try and get her to stop spinning in a full circle at a switch instead of changing directions cleanly (and hopefully so I can get a better grasp on the things - bane of my existence). *I* had some ugly moments where my brain deserted me, but overall pretty good. 

We've definitely, at least, got 12 weaves really solidly and our discriminations are rocking.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Oh, and at the rate both dogs are going I think Kylie really will be out of Novice before I get around to trialing with Molly. I wasn't so sure about that for a while, because when it comes to pure agility Molly's actually better - less experienced, but better. That's at *home*. She's got a long way to go before that applies anywhere else, and Kylie... Well, I'm not saying she WILL get out of Novice before next spring, but I wouldn't fall over from shock if she did, either, you know? At least in regular. She won't be out of novice in the games. 

So I guess right now the 'plan', loosely, is to focus on regular and tunnelers with her right now, and then think about tackling Chances, Jumpers, Weavers, and T'n'G. When Molly goes is ultimately going to be up to Molly, but probably not before I'm playing the other games with Kylie and Molly can work in Novice Regular and Tunnelers. I'll probably still give Molly one or two runs in January just for the experience, but not with any intent of real competition. 

That sounds reasonable, right?


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Bear the JRT in his younger days used to go MENTAL for the sound of that dang lure machine and the bag (they cant use a stuffie because it has to go around through the pulley system and I think a stuffie would get stuck LOL) he was the opposite, anything that sounded like it set him off, in an "WHERE IS IT?! I want to chase it!!!" way. I think Lincoln would be the same because I tested him by pulling a plastic bag across the ground and he went crazy for it haha. He also loves chasing it on the end of a flirt stick.

It's not as much the sound with him, its the circumstance of the sound, yesterday we had men working on our door, putting the indoor framing back on and they had the pieces leaned against the wall. Well, one of the guys hit it and it fell, making a loud smack on my floor and scared Lincoln to death  he jumped on the couch right into my lap and knocked over my coffee cup (which thank dog had very little left in it) and of course it made a secondary bang as it hit the floor (I am glad it didnt break because its a souvenir from when we went to six flags) then on top of that they used a nail gun, so I had to desensitize him to the sound of both things yesterday after they left ... he seems to be mostly over it, now though.

AHHH! I am going to start looking for places to train, then around christmas I will start entering into shows! I am so nervous! I havent competed in 15 years! LOL


----------



## Laurelin

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I just found drop in handling classes 1 night a week. My question though is that I don't particularly care for the person training? I like them as a person but I don't think they're nearly as skilled as my trainer I have been going to for years. and they have a very different 'system' of handling. And not nearly as much drive building/going for speed as I typically do. And from what I have seen of the person/students Hank is going to be much much much faster than what they know how to handle. So I wonder how much I will be able to do what I want vs doing things their way? I just want more ring time than I can get right now. 

It's the same place Hank and I did drop ins last week but that was a free practice vs this is advertised as a drop in CLASS with instruction. :/

I guess I just go drop in for one week and see how that goes? If I don't like it then don't go back?


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

It's a drop in. Going once and then not going back if it doesn't work shouldn't be any kind of issue. Not like you're taking a slot from someone else, or having to commit to pay for it all in, only to find out it doesn't work.


----------



## Laurelin

Haha so I just was told it is a *conformation* handling class and not an agility handling class. 

Lol whoops. Glad I found out tonight and didn't show up on Tuesday! Hank and I would be very very out of place.


----------



## Laurelin

Not sure if everyone can see this but I love big vs small dog mashups. This was posted on my papillon facebook page.

BC vs Pap (same handler)
https://www.facebook.com/peter.feer.7/videos/1158980634117783/

It probably helps that they don't have a teeter. In the ones I've seen prior the small dog loses a lot on the teeter but it's neat seeing them side by side without a teeter to cause the discrepancy.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I cannot see the link. 

Ok.. entering first CPE trial. I am running only standard and jackpot this time around. Does anyone have any Jackpot tips? It will only be level one, but I've only ever played the game in class once. I read the rules but if anyone has a good "how to" video that would be great. I'm not really worried about the jackpot part itself, as Kairi has pretty good distance usually.. but I'm REALLY bad at making up my own course. Haaaa.


----------



## Laurelin

Dangit! Oh well. Everyone needs to be a member of the papillon agility facebook group.  I think it's invite only but there's always cool videos posted. Makes me want another papillon!

Here's another small vs tall but it's harder to see plus different handlers (and the teeter). 

Masher (Pap) vs Pace (BC)






I just think it's neat to see.

NADAC people:

Thinking about entering probably intro in the next NADAC trial in november. I was told you can have 'containerized food' on you is that right?


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Dangit! Oh well. Everyone needs to be a member of the papillon agility facebook group.  I think it's invite only but there's always cool videos posted. Makes me want another papillon!
> 
> Here's another small vs tall but it's harder to see plus different handlers (and the teeter).
> 
> Masher (Pap) vs Pace (BC)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just think it's neat to see.
> 
> NADAC people:
> 
> Thinking about entering probably intro in the next NADAC trial in november. I was told you can have 'containerized food' on you is that right?


I think I saw that on BadDog agility *somewhere*, but I can't remember where. I really, really loved it.

NADAC trials now default to containerized, yes. That means you can have the food or toy on your person in the ring if it's in a bag and in your pocket, you just can't indicate to the dog that you have it and it can't be visible or audible. You can't do any rewards within 10 feet of the ring, and you can't leave treats and toys lying around in the open, but basically: Yes. The premium should have information about it, too. There's usually a blurb.


----------



## Sibe

We have a NADAC trail this weekend. Our first trial in a year! I'm running Denali and also a friend's Havanese. It's sooooooo different running a small dog. Really have to my hands lower for certain things, and be extremely aware of my feet.


----------



## Laurelin

Ok so on that note if I am waiting for our turn and feed Hank away from the ring then zip the bag and put it in my pocket we will be fine even if Hank sees me put it in my pocket (away from the ring)? 

Just trying to clarify. I'm thinking this may be a good intermediate between me having food in class and practice vs nothing in USDAA/AKC trials.


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> We have a NADAC trail this weekend. Our first trial in a year! I'm running Denali and also a friend's Havanese. It's sooooooo different running a small dog. Really have to my hands lower for certain things, and be extremely aware of my feet.


We're trialing this weekend, too! There should be all kinds of fun post-trial posting going on here!


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Ok so on that note if I am waiting for our turn and feed Hank away from the ring then zip the bag and put it in my pocket we will be fine even if Hank sees me put it in my pocket (away from the ring)?
> 
> Just trying to clarify. I'm thinking this may be a good intermediate between me having food in class and practice vs nothing in USDAA/AKC trials.


Yep. If you're 10 feet away from the ring feeding him and he sees you putting it in your pocket you are fine. I am usually feeding Kylie for silly tricks just outside the 10 feet (it's typically marked) while we're waiting, then shove her bottle in my pocket and go. You just have to make sure to get him the 10 feet away from the ring after the run to feed him again and not do anything dumb like pat your pocket pointedly and say 'COOOOKIES. I HAVE COOKIES' or such nonsense. (And since I know he's a tugger, you can't do tug into or out of the ring either).

It actually is a pretty good intermediate step, because seriously? The dogs KNOW the food is there.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah once I heard that I was like 'I'M IN!!!' lol

He will totally know I have the food. I can even have his toy if it's in a bag?

At the drop in I would show him his toy before the run then put it away. I'm TRYING to wean him off of the toy a bit because his focus is 10 million times better with the toy in sight at least at the beginning. But it's going to take some steps.

I'm thinking the NADAC trial might be great. We have a UKC show n go in October and TDAA next weekend. I may try TDAA tunnelers with Hank just to get ring experience.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Yeah once I heard that I was like 'I'M IN!!!' lol
> 
> He will totally know I have the food. I can even have his toy if it's in a bag?
> 
> At the drop in I would show him his toy before the run then put it away. I'm TRYING to wean him off of the toy a bit because his focus is 10 million times better with the toy in sight at least at the beginning. But it's going to take some steps.
> 
> I'm thinking the NADAC trial might be great. We have a UKC show n go in October and TDAA next weekend. I may try TDAA tunnelers with Hank just to get ring experience.


You can definitely have a toy if it's in a bag and you can do something to make it invisible while you run with him (like if it's a ball in a baggie in a pocket or whatever), but it can't be in like a bait bag or something. (Wear cargo pants/shorts - tons of spaces to hide things). 

It's a really neat thing, I think. Some people hate the no tugging within 10 feet of the ring because it makes the dog wait for their reward and it *does* get confusing if you do it tons at other venues, but for me the trade off of being able to shove the treat/toy in my pocket works out. Not sure how I'd feel about it if I switched up venues. In a way I guess it's sort of a cheat, but NGL? I like it. And it IS good training in the way you're using it, too.


----------



## Laurelin

Speaking of tugging and such...

Am I a horrible person to make Hank use the hot pink and purple tug leash?










It was a gift but too big for papillons.

I am kind of excited about NADAC now! We have some work to do. We've been off of classes for 3 weeks. Start back up next monday!


----------



## CptJack

I'm going to post this to the training goals thread to, and I do have some better pictures I"ll stick in Molly's thread, but y'all.

Look at the background that Molly's running in front of. 










As in: Look at the other people, and the other dogs. I think I might cry.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Had a really good time at the trial last weekend. Had lots of classes with my three dogs. Took me a few classes to get used to running Lucy as she is quite different than Remmy who I am used to but we did get two Q's, one in Starter Standard and a first and one in Starter Snooker, and she was second. My sisters Rat Terrier Q'd in the same two classes. Kris, my Dobe, did alright but sure different than running a small dog. Didn't help that I called her Lucy a couple of times. 

Won't have any more trials this year except maybe in November so lots of time to put more training in on Kris. I am going to retire Remmy, he just is not the same dog that I ran before, I think the seizures had something to do with it, he just was not the happy dog he usually is. He has competed so well for me and had his Masters in Standard and was just two Snookers short of getting the Masters in Games. He is only 8 this year but acts older.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Ok.. entering first CPE trial. I am running only standard and jackpot this time around. Does anyone have any Jackpot tips? It will only be level one, but I've only ever played the game in class once. I read the rules but if anyone has a good "how to" video that would be great. I'm not really worried about the jackpot part itself, as Kairi has pretty good distance usually.. but I'm REALLY bad at making up my own course. Haaaa.


Jackpot....depends on if it's a traditional or non traditional course! Practice sends to the table, lots of judges like to end a traditional jackpot with the table. Figure out on average how many obstacles you and your dog can take in 30 seconds and that will help you when figuring out your opening. I usually walk a shorter path and a longer path and also figure out where I want to kind of "hang out" if I'm waiting for the buzzer in a traditional jackpot (ie find a small circle of obstacles near where I want to start my gamble). If it ends up a non traditional jackpot....just go with it lol. Don't let all the people's questions freak you out, if you don't understand something, ask the judge. I personally have found many of the non traditional jackpot courses I have done to be easier than the traditional ones, but some people hate them because they can be confusing. Who is your judge? Oh and have fun! And have your rule book with you! I've been trialing in CPE for like 2 years now and I still have to look at my rule book like every trialto remember something.


----------



## dogsule

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



pawsaddict said:


> Sorry the lure coursing didn't go as planned. I don't think Nova would have done any better...last night, Nova jumped a bit at the sound of her own fart!
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


My little white cocker is deathly afraid of farts, especially her own but if you fart near her she will run away from you too. LOL!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

kadylady said:


> Jackpot....depends on if it's a traditional or non traditional course! Practice sends to the table, lots of judges like to end a traditional jackpot with the table. Figure out on average how many obstacles you and your dog can take in 30 seconds and that will help you when figuring out your opening. I usually walk a shorter path and a longer path and also figure out where I want to kind of "hang out" if I'm waiting for the buzzer in a traditional jackpot (ie find a small circle of obstacles near where I want to start my gamble). If it ends up a non traditional jackpot....just go with it lol. Don't let all the people's questions freak you out, if you don't understand something, ask the judge. I personally have found many of the non traditional jackpot courses I have done to be easier than the traditional ones, but some people hate them because they can be confusing. Who is your judge? Oh and have fun! And have your rule book with you! I've been trialing in CPE for like 2 years now and I still have to look at my rule book like every trialto remember something.


Thank you, I will work on those things! I have a private lesson coming up at the end of Sept, so that will really help too. I will definitely be taking my rule book as I did to my practice trial. It helps it is the same place. I have no idea who judges are.


----------



## CptJack

I keep wanting to say I'm imagining Molly having issues with BCs, but every time she had any issue in class at all, it was in response to the other BC. She doesn't do that to all BCs, but I have no clue what specifically is setting her off with the ones that do. I can't really observe the other dog - I'm too busy keeping my eyes on Molly.

In other news, agility class was an agility class and Molly was good. She broke a stay at the start line by standing up and half turning toward where the other dogs but she didn't do more than that and refocused on me and our exercise immediately, so I'm calling that a win (though it scared the heck out of the training assistant in the class). Felt pretty nice to hear the instructor giving instructions to the reactive chi, too, if only because it affirms that my instructor really *does* think I handle Molly well. 

Agility wise, Molly really did do well. I don't trust her well enough to a blind cross (I think I'd lose her) but we've gained some control over the past couple of weeks. It isn't translating overly well to practices and I'm sure trials would be a disaster right now, but we're getting there. And, hey, she got her switch about 900% better than Kylie does, so there's that.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

I was shocked that Lincoln really didnt care about the other dogs at all! I mean sure he went up to see them but as soon as I called him away to work he was like "okay!" and forgot all about them! I am shocked at how focused he is, especially for as young as he is!


----------



## CptJack

I am actually going to miss club practice and Molly's class next week. That doesn't upset me nearly as much as it might, since the following week I'm going to have at least a Show 'n Go on Sunday, practice on Monday, and class on Tuesday. May or may not have Kylie's lesson on Saturday, but honestly I think I'm going to give her (and me) that day off. 

Trial is this weekend. I am absolutely not even remotely nervous. That may not bode well for doing well, but I can't say I'm sorry. It's kind of nice to be laid back about it. I am excited about the trial photographer and getting some good action shots of Kylie. Am NOT excited about it raining all weekend, but that's what tents and trench coats are for (and I'd STILL rather do the rain than the indoor venue that is 8" of sand that gets _everywhere_.)


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I am actually going to miss club practice and Molly's class next week. That doesn't upset me nearly as much as it might, since the following week I'm going to have at least a Show 'n Go on Sunday, practice on Monday, and class on Tuesday. May or may not have Kylie's lesson on Saturday, but honestly I think I'm going to give her (and me) that day off.
> 
> Trial is this weekend. I am absolutely not even remotely nervous. That may not bode well for doing well, but I can't say I'm sorry. It's kind of nice to be laid back about it. I am excited about the trial photographer and getting some good action shots of Kylie. Am NOT excited about it raining all weekend, but that's what tents and trench coats are for (and I'd STILL rather do the rain than the indoor venue that is 8" of sand that gets _everywhere_.)


I have a trial the weekend after this weekend and will have had no agility classes for two weeks! No class in town yet as the fair is just gotten over (we rent a fair building) and we are no negotiating the rental fee which has gone up and some weird additions added. Cannot get to the class out of town either. Been working too much to get outside. Hopefully we will do ok.

I must say I do like being inside vs outside but we have rubber mats, no sand!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> I have a trial the weekend after this weekend and will have had no agility classes for two weeks! No class in town yet as the fair is just gotten over (we rent a fair building) and we are no negotiating the rental fee which has gone up and some weird additions added. Cannot get to the class out of town either. Been working too much to get outside. Hopefully we will do ok.
> 
> I must say I do like being inside vs outside but we have rubber mats, no sand!


Let me tell you. Our indoor arena for January? It's a livestock arena. You think outside has distractions. There are literal horses EVERYWHERE and I can only imagine what it smells like to a dog and every time we've been there (we've been doing show 'n goes there) the horses are outside. Then again, our practice field has horses outside it, too, so maybe that's becoming less of an issue. But mostly, it's the sand. Like comes in over your shoes, tracks up into bags, clings to everything. There are bleachers, which is nice and the roof is great. 

It's just so, so, gross.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Let me tell you. Our indoor arena for January? It's a livestock arena. You think outside has distractions. There are literal horses EVERYWHERE and I can only imagine what it smells like to a dog and every time we've been there (we've been doing show 'n goes there) the horses are outside. Then again, our practice field has horses outside it, too, so maybe that's becoming less of an issue. But mostly, it's the sand. Like comes in over your shoes, tracks up into bags, clings to everything. There are bleachers, which is nice and the roof is great.
> 
> It's just so, so, gross.


I can't quite imagine that. My daughter thinks our trial building is gross cause it is full of dog hair and smells like dog....hmmmm wonder why? LOL! I am thankful for a nice place to trial at. There is one about two+ hours from here that is really nice, never been there but have seen pics. Great lighting too.


----------



## elrohwen

I hate the dirt arena that we train on for agility. It's a horse arena (though the horses are long gone) and that dirt gets all over everything. Watson gets it packed into his paws, and then if it's wet outside it turns into mud and he tracks it all over the house. He can be making muddy footprints an hour after we get home. We tried filling up the tub part way, but you have to carry him all the way upstairs and he fights it. And if you don't get it all out he still makes muddy footrprints. I'd much rather train on grass, regular outdoor dirt, or mats.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> I can't quite imagine that. My daughter thinks our trial building is gross cause it is full of dog hair and smells like dog....hmmmm wonder why? LOL! I am thankful for a nice place to trial at. There is one about two+ hours from here that is really nice, never been there but have seen pics. Great lighting too.


It's... technically clean? As in, there isn't like horse poop left around. And the flooring surface is really, really, good for the dogs because it's got such great impact cushioning, but the freaking sand is EVERYWHERE, and it's just obnoxious and kind of gross. I ended up with it inside my *SOCKS* last time we were there. Not just shoes - SOCKS. 



















But yeah. Mostly I'm just happier outside.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I hate the dirt arena that we train on for agility. It's a horse arena (though the horses are long gone) and that dirt gets all over everything. Watson gets it packed into his paws, and then if it's wet outside it turns into mud and he tracks it all over the house. He can be making muddy footprints an hour after we get home. We tried filling up the tub part way, but you have to carry him all the way upstairs and he fights it. And if you don't get it all out he still makes muddy footrprints. I'd much rather train on grass, regular outdoor dirt, or mats.


Yeah, basically that. All of that. I'd honestly even rather be outside in rain, where at least the mud is mud and heavy enough not to end up all over everything. Our classes have equestrian sand, too, but it's mixed with something I swear is carefresh and heavier and while it'll pack into your shoes it doesn't track and drift and float the same way and it isn't as deep.


----------



## kadylady

Our big Thanksgiving weekend trial is in a horse area that is pretty similar to the pic CptJack posted. And yeah....the sand is everywhere!! Our equipment is so dirty after that trial. And yes...somehow sand always makes its way through your shoes and your socks without fail! The dogs love it though and it is a really nice surface for them to run on.


----------



## elrohwen

I used to ride a lot, and the ring would get dusty in the summer so they would mist it down. Nice feature! I've really only trained in our current agility place in winter (November-May the first time, and then one lesson two weeks ago). It's been really dry though and it still wasn't dusty, so at least there's that. But it does get all over everything. It's like up my nose, all over my hands and clothes (especially if the dog is dragging the leash for some reason, or the leash is on the ground). It's the packing into the paws that I hate the most.


----------



## Kyllobernese

When we train inside it was also used for horses. The past two years though, the horses have not used it but the 4H used it for their sheep, goats and pigs so there is still lots for the dogs to smell and try to eat. They are not in it during the winter though so eventually all the poop gets worked into the surface. We also have a nice big room upstairs that we use for Obedience when the weather is too cold to do anything in the arena. We also do a little agility work upstairs on things like weave poles, table, etc.

Our surface does get dusty but they water it and work on it during the summer but can't water it in the winter as it would freeze up. I am hoping we can put on a Fun Trial for Agility in the spring, we always have one for Obedience every year.


----------



## Sibe

First NADAC runs ever, two Touch & Go runs.... Qs in both!!!!









NQ in Jumpers because of one dropped bar but it was a beautiful run and she got 2nd place (so weird to place even without a Q). NQ in Regular because she refused to weave.

Start of her very first NADAC run, T&G course. Think she was excited?!



























Ruuuuuun!


















HERE do not take the tunnel straight in front of your face.









Go Chelsea!!! She went jump-jump-jump and ran out of the ring back to mom. Our Standard run was better. Chelsea's owner hurt her knee so we're seeing if Chelsea will run with me. Chels is a Havanese.









Great lead out in Jumpers. I stopped to pick up a dropped tissue and ran it off the course, then ran back to where I wanted to be, all while Nali waited like a rock... not sure if that counts as stepping back toward your dog.
https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11937980_10102411505954723_7775403200148432017_o.jpg/img]

OMG HER LITTLE FEET.
[IMG]https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/11953352_10102411506254123_5605528469653372693_o.jpg

I make the best faces.


----------



## Sibe

Standard. Er, Regular.


















Um. No. Try again. She went in wrong each time, but the rest of her run was flawless!


----------



## CptJack

Day 1 report: 3 for 3 with first place, but way more importantly: 2 for 3 Qs. I'll do a more detailed report when I can brain again, but I am starved, sore, and dead, and was out of the house for 12 hours.


----------



## Laurelin

Long story short: Summer pooped in the ring for one run, had a crazy off course, and then Q'd our last run. 

Hank and I did 5 obstacles then had a party in the ring.

I was really happy with both of them.


----------



## LoMD13

Woooo go Kylie! That is fantastic. 

Glad Summer and Hank did well too!!

Me and Lola tried our hand at USDAA again this weekend. It was our first 2 ring trial and we were both kind of off and mopey all week long- probably due to it being a billion degrees. We got 2 first place Q's in Standard and Pairs! She did go visit the judge once in pairs, but to be fair she was a little confused as to what I wanted, and the judge was RIGHT there and walking towards her so she was pretty sure he wanted to talk to her. 

Gamblers was at the end of the day, and we were both kind of done at that point. The opening was kind of a hot mess, but she actually came VERY close to getting the gamble, I think my foot just touched the line. So I was really really really proud of that, my little won't send to tunnels dog actually went out to a tunnel and took 2 distance junps.


----------



## LoMD13

Also, love the pictures Sibe! You and Denali look so great!


----------



## Laurelin

Congrats Lola, Kylie and Denali!

I also brought Mia to the show and I was SO proud of her. She let several people pet her and she sat in my lap almost all day. She behaved wonderfully.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats everyone on the Q's and successes!


----------



## CptJack

Thanks guys. 2 out of 3 again today. Picture when we get home as well as a full run down.










I'm dead tired. Ergo, I lied about the full run down. The important bit, though, is that her weaves STILL kind of fall more or less apart in trials. It's like that's where stress shows. Really not sure what to do about that, except plugging away.


----------



## CptJack

Actually, I lied. I'm going to share some things.

1.) Our Regular Q today? It wasn't pretty, but I pulled her off the wrong obstacle in a discrimination and redirected her to the right one between 2 and 4 feet hitting it. While the ideal would be just getting the discrimination, I'm going to take that, because holy heck it was beautifully responsive - on BOTH our parts. 

2-) Her YPS was like 3.8. That's quite an improvement. 

3-) I've started actually using a TINY little bit of distance handling here and there, and it really speeds things up. 

4-) There was a trial photographer. I can not wait to see those pictures, y'all. 

5-) Someone asked me if I was Kylie's owner, then asked me if I was CptJack. I was awkward, weird, and kind of sidled off until I saw them with their dog. After I went back and was friendlier, I hope? (still awkward and thrown but nicer). LOL, OOPS. BUT I MET A REALLY COOL DOG AND BC FORUMS PERSON. 

6-) The Regular Q we didn't get today was because I spent WAY too long trying to put her through the weaves offside. If I'd just switched sides sooner, we would have gotten it. We were only a few seconds overtime. Ah well, live and learn. 

But seriously, I don't know what to do with the weaves thing. It really is a confidence and stress issue, but I don't begin to know how to practice for that except to keep plugging away. It's pretty much a trial situation, so I don't see how I can resolve it OUTSIDE of a trial, you know?


----------



## kadylady

Congrats to everyone!! Sounds like lots of great weekends!! 

CptJack re the weaves...what you describe is exactly what Zoey and I went through. All her stress showed up in her weaves. We proofed the life out of the weaves and threw as much stress in as possible, in stages of course. First we started in a comfortable environment with proofing by adding food, toys, people and other dogs until she could weave perfect with all of that happening in her weave space. Then we took the show on the road, to friends houses, schools, parks, the lake, ect, until she learned that she could weave anywhere while anything was happening around her. Once we got that it was implementing it in trials, and for us that meant being firm that yes she did have to do the weaves, if she didn't she had to sit and then try again, after our 3 attempts were used she got carried off. When she got them on the right try we ran off the field for an enormous jackpot...even though that meant blowing off potential Q's. It has been quite a journey for us and it really sucks that just as things were coming together regarding her weaves she got hurt, but our last trials we were finally getting success in the weaves. It's something we've been working on for months and I really didn't start seeing improvement until we started going different places. I couldn't recreate the trial stress at our training building. But I could get pretty darn close at the school with the baseball games going on and kids running around screaming. That was the key for us... To show her that she could weave when all that other stuff was going on.


----------



## CptJack

You know, I was going to express confusion here since she'll weave through distractions, and chaos, and in different environments. She was at a show 'n go, what, two weeks ago? And doing 12 weaves in the middle of an elite course, in a location that she's never been packed with other dogs. She's done weaves in the park with a football practice going on. 

Then I um, kind of realized that she does weaves ONCE in those settings. Which is what I get at a trial. I get one really, really good set of weaves, and then I get slower ones, with more pop-outs and frustration barking when I reset. 

And, in fairness, she did a heck of a lot better this trial than the last one, where she refused to weave. She actually got through them all 4 times, this time, it was just 2 of the 4 were SLOW and involved a lot of restarting. :/


----------



## LoMD13

When I started having that kind of trouble with Lola- I stepped back what I was asking of her and built up to where I wanted to be. We are still building, it's why we only do 1 day of a trial and 3 runs a day. For example, If she can do 1 set of weaves at a trial confidently, maybe do a trial and only enter her in one thing with weaves, and jackpot/party at the end of it. The trial after that, try a set of weaves each day if you do two days. Next one, try 2 in a day spaced well enough apart to give her a mental break.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> When I started having that kind of trouble with Lola- I stepped back what I was asking of her and built up to where I wanted to be. We are still building, it's why we only do 1 day of a trial and 3 runs a day. For example, If she can do 1 set of weaves at a trial confidently, maybe do a trial and only enter her in one thing with weaves, and jackpot/party at the end of it. The trial after that, try a set of weaves each day if you do two days. Next one, try 2 in a day spaced well enough apart to give her a mental break.


That's a really good idea. 

We're pretty good for one set each day of a trial, but certainly not two. The other thing you pointed out that I hadn't thought of, is that at our 'home' trials, the courses run: E, O, N Round 1, and then E, O, N round 2. This trial went EE, OO, NN. So... her two runs for regular there was very, very little break They're different courses (well, reversed courses) but that was a lot more than she's used to. I should probably watch and see how that's going to go, anyway, at future trials to make sure a break *exists* for her. 

Thank you!
I also think I need to just start getting her weaving more on courses/ in sequences. I kind of suspect at least some of the issue is that while she's trying to weave she's slowed down enough to notice other stuff going on and stress about it. That isn't really true for the rest of the course. That might be totally wrong, but more confidence and speed in them won't hurt, anyway.


----------



## Laurelin

We had a great class tonight!  In particular he did some great weave entrances and weaved all 12 despite having been a couple months since he's seen 12 weaves.


----------



## CptJack

I haven't done any agility with Molly at all in the past week, and haven't done any outside of class/practice in more like a month. ...Haven't done much with Kylie, either. This week we have no agility until Sunday because the husband is out of town for a business trip, so I might actually get my training area set up again. Maybe. If I can stop feeling like death. Sunday's a show 'n go, at least, and Monday is practice and Tuesday is class, so we'll not be having a shortage, there, at least?

Just need to motivate myself to get out there and haul things around.

Also need to motivate myself to want to take Kylie and Molly anywhere together, ever. Both of them at once is just hard as heck.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank and I just took a solid 3 weeks off pretty much. 

We also had an interesting come to jesus between Hank and the BC. My trainer told me Hank is being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. They were just ramping each other up. HEY KNOCK IT OFF!!!!!! actually worked. Hank was like 'Wait what!? I got in trouble!?' They could walk past each other with no reaction. 

This weekend we have lure coursing, I'm excited! Weekend after next, I'm going the the UKC club's potluck and trying to join.


----------



## Laurelin

This is a strange looking dog.

https://www.facebook.com/cheryl.sacerich/videos/10152447925189833/


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> This is a strange looking dog.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/cheryl.sacerich/videos/10152447925189833/


 Hhahahahahahaa that was great! And another example of why breakaway tires are so important


----------



## CptJack

We're thisclose to our novice titles in both tunnelers and regular. I originally thought I'd move Kylie up in those classes so I wouldn't be running two novice dogs in them, but I'm giving some pretty consideration to NOT bumping Kylie up and going for the Outstanding awards in them (10 Qs for regular, 6 for tunnelers) instead. I don't really know. I'm not going to feel bad if I don't get the Q, but if I can't get this weave issue handled and have her weaving consistently in trials, I don't see much point in moving her up/don't think we're ready to move up. 

Or, maybe I'll give it a rest and focus on T 'n' G and Jumpers for a bit. Might even give novice chances a go along the way to getting consistent weaves in trials, since it's a weaving class.


----------



## CptJack

I was able to replicate Kylie's weave issues at home today. I achieved that by catching her when she was high as a kite, had just finished having zoomies and wanted to play fetch. Dog did not want to slow down to hit entries, or to stay in the weaves. When asked to slow down to do them correctly or reset, she just had fits of frustration barking. Also had my husband point out that Kylie didn't do stopped contacts for crap at the trial either, and she usually does. Got them decently, again, one run each day. And had bounce offs and slide offs the second. 

Dog needs to collect. 

Very well may be stressing crazy high, but either way: DOG NEEDS TO COLLECT.

This is so opposite of any issue I ever had, or expected to have, with her that I'm pretty dumbfounded.


----------



## sassafras

Squash was on fire at agility tonight. He's really mastering some skills like wraps and sends to certain obstacles (especially tunnel and contacts), and we were just really connected and having fun tonight. For the first time, I felt like trailing with him someday is a realistic, doable goal (although whether I decide I ever WANT to or not is a different matter). Best polar bear.


----------



## dogsule

Wasn't sure how our trial would go on Saturday since we haven't had an agility class in over 3 weeks now. This is our Open Standard run, Belle got a perfect score! First one down went great so I thought maybe today would go as well as the last trial but nope! Novice Fast Belle pulled out of the tunnel (in the send box) and then went into the wrong end), oh well, I think I moved away from her too fast to get in position for the jump after the tunnel and she sensed that so came back out instead of going through. In Open JWW, she fell apart, not focused at all! Just sat there when I said ok for her to go, refused two jumps and then pulled out on the last weave pole, just was not paying attention at all. Until after the last jump when she was totally focused on me waiting for the praise she normally gets. It was almost comical her little face staring up at me with a huge grin on it like come on tell me what a good girl I was. Little stinker!!

I was happy with this run though but she was a little slow on her weaves, I was worried she was going to pull out of them.


----------



## Laurelin

Well I joined the UKC club! So now we'll see how that goes. I didn't know it wasn't a 'done deal' kind of think. I had to apply and they had to decide to accept us, etc. Yikes! But we are in. Haha. I am excited to get to try some new stuff and it sounds like the group will be able to host UKC and TDAA trials. So that could be exciting.

Belle looks fantastic!


----------



## CptJack

We had a show 'n go tonight. I didn't stay for the whole thing, so I did all five runs on one Touch 'n Go course, but. 

Molly did one run with an abbreviated course, then we went back and did the whole thing. It wasn't perfect (at all) - she ran around the A-frame and came back over the wrong side, she took a hoop from the wrong side, and missed a discrimination - but HOLY HECK I DO NOT EVEN CARE. There was some hard stuff in there, she stayed with me, she listened, she came back and got everything she missed right when we re-tried and she did a whole course! Happily!

Kylie and I played with some really, really long lead-outs and distance stuff. She nailed her discriminations (she is CRAZY consistent with those), and she even got her contacts with the distance. She is really impressing the DAYLIGHTS out of me, lately. 

So proud of these two. So, so proud.


----------



## CptJack

That run looks great, Dogs! Belle's beautiful and seems so happy. 

And congrats on the membership Laurelin!


----------



## kadylady

I got to run agility today!!!! Our club was hosting a CPE trial this weekend and my instructor had me run her BC in 2 classes!!! It was amazing. I'd been running him in class when Zoey first got hurt but trial was a total adrenaline rush. He's so fast! We even Q'd in one class! It was a blast and really helped pull me out of the "agility blues" I've been having lately.

In other agility news...Skye is registered for her first agility class, which starts the first week of October. Also sent in a registration for Zoey's class in hopes that she's ready to start by then...we are getting close I think.

Congrats to all who ran this weekend!


----------



## CptJack

My instructor is going to champs first weekend in October. I am so excited about it that it's just a wee bit silly. Or a lot bit silly, but I really am excited/weirdly proud (I have NO right to any pride there, but still. Proud).


----------



## Laurelin

Is that like NADAC nationals/worlds? My instructor is going to Cynosport. I hope she does well! I'd love to get to go to *a* nationals one day. 

On that note AKC nationals is in town in 2016. I'm totally going to volunteer. And maybe take off work. Cause I'm a nerd. Oh and if you volunteer they have a crating area for volunteers' dogs from what I'm told. So then Hank could come. And then I can take him to all the wonderful vendors... and find cool stuff I don't need.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Is that like NADAC nationals/worlds? My instructor is going to Cynosport. I hope she does well! I'd love to get to go to *a* nationals one day.
> 
> On that note AKC nationals is in town in 2016. I'm totally going to volunteer. And maybe take off work. Cause I'm a nerd. Oh and if you volunteer they have a crating area for volunteers' dogs from what I'm told. So then Hank could come. And then I can take him to all the wonderful vendors... and find cool stuff I don't need.



It's the NADAC version of Nationals, yeah. I don't even know WHY I'm so excited, but I'm just thrilled to bits. 

Also that sounds totally cool and I'm a little bit jealous of the opportunity. That'd be a heck of an experience!


----------



## Laurelin

It is! This'll be my second time to go and last time was only a few months into agility. I'm excited already!

Tonight was a mixed bag. I could tell just arriving that Hank was jacked. And I was right. He was way way way over the top for some reason. Not lack of exercise because he was out literally ALL weekend he was a reactive buttface to the Aussie which got him a talkin to. And we are trying to wean him off the ball. So he was just all over the place because we put the ball where he could see it but not reach it. 

I remind myself he is young and male and a butt. 

He did not scream at the border collie at all but did have a lunging growl fest at the Aussie. 

Oh and there was a frog on the field and omg hank went nuts. 

When we were together he rocked. Man he's fast. His dog walk is speeding up crazy fast. I can't use it to catch my breath anymore. 

My trainer told me not to fret. But gah some days these young crazy dogs wear me out. 

He also BIT my stomach HARD when I got home from work. Just overarousal. 

Really the theme of today is over arousal. Generally I say he's an easy dog. Today was a reminder that no he's really not always. 

We'll figure it out.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Hank will get better with time! Sorry he was being a butt tonight. Kairi has those nights too.. and shes a girl!

Tonight, however, I was very impressed with her weaves. While she did a random pop out once when I was next to her.. she has some seriously independent weaves going on. I was halfway across the room and she was still weaving on a few different occasions. Good girl, Kai. <3


----------



## Kyllobernese

We are finally getting back to doing Agility on Saturdays again with the small dogs. Between trials and everything, we have not done it for a few weeks. I still go every Wednesday and Saturday and practice Agility and Obedience with Kris and we are going to start going on Mondays as well. They are all big dogs those three days.

Ran Kris through a course last Saturday and she sure made me run! Still a little slow but accurate on the weaves but the speed will come. Have to get as much training in Agility as we can before the cold weather hits but we can do Obedience and some Agility in the heated area we use when it is too cold to use the arena.


----------



## Laurelin

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Hank will get better with time! Sorry he was being a butt tonight. Kairi has those nights too.. and shes a girl!


Look at this deceptive cuteness right before being a jerk.


----------



## elrohwen

My new tunnel is coming today!!!

But we will be at agility lessons the entire evening :-( 

I still don't have enough milk jugs to make weights. I need to drink faster!


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> My new tunnel is coming today!!!
> 
> But we will be at agility lessons the entire evening :-(
> 
> I still don't have enough milk jugs to make weights. I need to drink faster!


When did you order yours? Mine is still marked awaiting shipment, hoping it ships this week since I ordered it 8/28.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> When did you order yours? Mine is still marked awaiting shipment, hoping it ships this week since I ordered it 8/28.


The very last day of the sale, which I think is the same time you ordered yours. 

It's shipping super fast. I only got the email yesterday and it's arriving today. But the factory is only about 1.5-2 hours from my house so that might be why.


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> The very last day of the sale, which I think is the same time you ordered yours.
> 
> It's shipping super fast. I only got the email yesterday and it's arriving today. But the factory is only about 1.5-2 hours from my house so that might be why.


Ah yes, being close to the factory is a perk. I haven't gotten a shipping email yet...hopefully soon. I have 4 Ready Jumps coming from Clean Run on Thursday!


----------



## kadylady

Ha! I just got the shipping email! Mine shipped today and is expected to be delivered tomorrow!! Sweet!! Tunnel on Wednesday and jumps on Thursday!! We are gonna be ready to rock!


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> Ha! I just got the shipping email! Mine shipped today and is expected to be delivered tomorrow!! Sweet!! Tunnel on Wednesday and jumps on Thursday!! We are gonna be ready to rock!


Awesome! Good timing! It's funny, I got the tracking email yesterday, and didn't get the email from NTI until this morning.

The Ready Jumps look really cool. It's basically how mine are put together except mine are homemade and don't fold down.


----------



## CptJack

If Kylie's weaves would stop falling apart every time we did a trial, that would really be fantastic. 

What. The. Hell.

This is the SECOND time. 

First time, I figured they weren't that solid to start with.

This time? No. Not buying it. She was doing 12, fast, in the middle of an elite course, fairly hard entries, both sides, whatever and then immediately after trial I have her periodically popping out and barking at me on six, on side. It's not even just trial behavior, where I get one great set a day and then pop outs and frustration barking or refusals, it's BACK HOME with lower criteria. 

I don't think it's physical, either, because when I can make her stop refusing and barking at me she does them happily, fast, and well. And repeatedly. Heck, when it's her idea at home (ie: Non directed) she'll occasionally zip through them. 

I'm starting to think that she's 'getting away with' refusals in the trial, but I'm afraid to move on that in case it's some sort of negative association. Especially since my alternative is 'she stresses and worries about them in trial and the association holds'

ETA: Maybe it's the base on the poles at trials that's putting her off? We use the stick in the ground kind at home? Could that really be that big a thing?


----------



## pawsaddict

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Bought myself some Rescue Remedy to hopefully calm the agility jitters I have been getting recently. Here's hoping it works! Down the hatch!

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> Awesome! Good timing! It's funny, I got the tracking email yesterday, and didn't get the email from NTI until this morning.
> 
> The Ready Jumps look really cool. It's basically how mine are put together except mine are homemade and don't fold down.


Ready jumps are the best things in the world. Seriously. So easy to cart about 4-5 around.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Ready jumps are the best things in the world. Seriously. So easy to cart about 4-5 around.


I just leave most of mine down in the field we use. Little frogs like to live in the PVC. lol They are not easy to cart around. They always end up twisting and getting tangled.


----------



## CptJack

We only have two more classes - and after that it's all very up in the air for how to progress. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with her - I've made an 'appointment' to use part of Kylie's private lesson this weekend to talk about it. 

I really don't know how that's going to go/what the outcome is going to be. I know the trainer has some experience with her own fearful, reactive dog and I'm hoping she'll have some insight. I don't want kicked out of NADAC because I put her in a trial or have her at a trial before she's ready (their definition of aggressive dog is really, really loose and includes barking at the end of a leash) and I don't want to just... quit. I will if that's really, really what she thinks I should do, but I'd rather not. 

Actual trial readiness skills wise is a thing, too. Molly's mostly pretty good, but I'm over-dogged with her. That's something I can work on, but I need to figure out where, and how to do that. I may be way overthinking it, but at this point I'm just hoping I can get through a conversation about it with my thoughts in enough order to make some freaking sense.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> We only have two more classes - and after that it's all very up in the air for how to progress. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with her - I've made an 'appointment' to use part of Kylie's private lesson this weekend to talk about it.
> 
> I really don't know how that's going to go/what the outcome is going to be. I know the trainer has some experience with her own fearful, reactive dog and I'm hoping she'll have some insight. I don't want kicked out of NADAC because I put her in a trial or have her at a trial before she's ready (their definition of aggressive dog is really, really loose and includes barking at the end of a leash) and I don't want to just... quit. I will if that's really, really what she thinks I should do, but I'd rather not.
> 
> Actual trial readiness skills wise is a thing, too. Molly's mostly pretty good, but I'm over-dogged with her. That's something I can work on, but I need to figure out where, and how to do that. I may be way overthinking it, but at this point I'm just hoping I can get through a conversation about it with my thoughts in enough order to make some freaking sense.


Can you just re-take the same class? If you feel like you're not ready to advance with her then maybe that's the best option. Or just do privates for a little while.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Can you just re-take the same class? If you feel like you're not ready to advance with her then maybe that's the best option. Or just do privates for a little while.


If I could do privates, I would be all over them but the trainer is pretty booked up and I'm not sure I have a chance in heck of getting in with a dog that green. I'm pretty sure she mostly does privates with people who are already competing and I'm lucky I got in with Kylie. I could probably, maybe, get the very occasional one, but I'd be astonished if regular ones happened. She just doesn't have the time. 

I can retake this class when it reruns in January, if it doesn't entirely fill from the advancing beginner class and if it's filled enough to happen - neither one's a given. If that comes together we probably will retake it. The benefit there is mostly in working around other dogs and staying in the agility 'game', with access to contact equipment, but that's a pretty danged big benefit.  It would also wrap around the time that April's trial would be coming up somewhere, and practices would be resuming.


----------



## Laurelin

Are there any other agility options in your area? I would be SO frustrated not having constant classes. I mean we may break for a week or two here but we just continue progressing from pre-agility and onward.

Personally from what you say about Molly, how short of a time you've done classes with her, and how young she is I would not be trying a trial. I think I was wrong to try with Hank (hindsight is 20/20 and to be fair I was totally blindsided by his reaction) and I'm not even going to try for a while. Probably spring or later. Just my thoughts.

For me and Hank I am trying to hit up basically every non trial opportunity. Which is getting to be creative and joining other clubs. Ie: I have no interest in UKC agility but I am now a club member because they have an open field for members and host fun runs. I'm probably going to be joining the AKC club too just for members only fun runs. 

Online classes are another idea? You could even pack it up and take it on the road? Are there any other instructors teaching any other styles of agility nearby? Or are there even other kinds of classes (rally, nosework, etc) you could do to keep her used to working in that environment and then you could work agility specifically on your own?


----------



## elrohwen

I agree with Laurelin about looking for other places. Even if it's not agility, maybe something like Rally? I feel like exposing her to more places and teaching her to work in those places is going to be more valuable than actual agility skills right now. 

I would also be frustrated by not having a clear path forward or any classes for months. At the places we have trained, there is pretty much always a next level class or the option to stay in the current class with only a couple weeks break.

Also, if Kylie has private lessons, can you split the time? The few times I've done privates an hour was way too much time with one dog anyway and splitting it between the two worked well.


----------



## Laurelin

Splitting the lesson would be a good idea. Hank can work a full hour but when I would take the papillons a split lesson was more than enough for them.

Basically my game plan for Hank right now is to scale back a lot on agility. Scale up on foundations. Stay in classes. 1 private a month (or so). Drop ins when available and fun runs when available (only know one right now).

I have gotten a LOT out of the Fenzi foundations classes so far. I sound like a walking billboard for them but they have been really good.


----------



## CptJack

We don't have other agility options - or, well, none that we can get to. We're driving an hour now. The next nearest place is 2 hours out, and classes start before we could get there on weeknights. There is SOME chance we can find a rally class that will start during the time we're off agility, but it looks like what's going to run for those months is going to be more advanced we can do. What's running at our club during that time is flyball and - no, just no, for all the obvious reasons. 


I can't split the lesson - Kylie gets 20-30 minutes now, her private lessons are a 30 minute block and alternating weeks or something isn't really on the table. If we can't take the lesson she has other people who are competing and who have been waiting to get the dog in who get first refusal on that slot. 

I'll be honest. Lack of options means I'm almost certainly going to take her to the trial in October, see how she does and then put her in in January. If we were seriously competitive I would hold off. If I thought we were going to have more options for practice and training in the interm, I'd hold off. If I have a doubt in my mind she would react at ALL in such a way as to create an issue for someone else or get her removed from NADAC I would and will hold off. If I freak out or think there will be an issue, I will scratch her day of or just before.

But I can't even do club practices if we're not prepping for trial. We can GO and do some work but we can't use the field/courses.

It's very much a do or die situation sooner or later. That might be April instead of January, but it's not a situation where I can take agility solidly for years or even another year and not trial her. Agility access goes away for the dog if you're not trialing. I could sort of keep her in classes by just rotating her through foundations/beginner/intermediate indefinitely, but frankly that takes spots away from new people and isn't fair, and her classes fill and OVERfill.


----------



## elrohwen

If you're interested in something like rally just for the experience, I wouldn't worry about it being advanced. We have a 6 month old puppy in our Rally class right now because the owner couldn't fit a more appropriate class into her schedule. She does what she can with him on the course and there's no expectation that he's going to be at the level of the adult dogs. But she paid for her time to do the course so no big deal. I've never been in a Rally class that didn't have some super novice people and some more advanced people.


----------



## CptJack

I'm not worried about it being advanced, but they won't let me in without the pre-requisite classes in their facility. As in she has to take them there. 

...I sound like I'm shooting everything down and I kind of am, but it's not lack of willingness? It's lack of ACCESS.

That said, there's a reason I'm talking to the instructor. Hopefully she'll be able to help me come up with some kind of plan, somewhere, that's better than what I've got now.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I'm not worried about it being advanced, but they won't let me in without the pre-requisite classes in their facility. As in she has to take them there.


Really? That's stupid. Every place I've seen will at least let you come in and show what you can do first.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Really? That's stupid. Every place I've seen will at least let you come in and show what you can do first.


Yeah, it's kind of dumb. I might try emailing to see if there's something I'm not aware of or a way around but it's a thing. Heck, it's a thing for agility classes at the other facility, too, from what I can tell.

And, oh, hey, the other agility place has a 'any dog that demonstrates any reactivity will be removed from classes' policy, ANYWAY, so that's not going to work. Not that she's hugely reactive, anymore, but she sure as heck qualifies. 

Ergh.


----------



## Laurelin

My concern isn't that she'd be a danger. I just think getting out there before you're really ready can cause a lot of strife down the road. But I had to go in and figure it out with Hank for myself and he's a dog that KILLS classes like you wouldn't believe. 

We actually had this talk at UKC this last week. They are more laid back about trialling and don't want to wait two years. They are not competitive. They see my school and the other as being too competition focused. 

I dont know that it's competitive vs not competitive really though. I'll be frank I think it's just good training vs rushing. :/. And I say that as someone who fell into the temptation to rush. 

I think for some dogs going in one year after starting training or even less wont hurt. Won't help by wont hurt. Summer is that kind of dog. Happy, easy, biddable, naturally focused. With other dogs I think you run some risks. 

I dunno how to clearly get my thoughts out. I understand why the long wait for most places to get their dogs out. It's not that they're more competitive even though that's what people often say. It's that they are wanting to stack the odds of a successful experience in the ring. 

I feel like I have a lot of 'undoing' to do from our trial attempt.


----------



## CptJack

I don't disagree exactly, but I'm not sure I totally agree. Well, I know I don't totally agree.

I think the one thing you aren't accounting for is NADAC lets you train in the ring - and in fact encourages it. In trials. You won't Q, but they let you train in the ring. So for me it's no different than a show 'n go, except the setting. I can go back and fix contacts, rework sequences, go over time (within a limit, of course), or even do partial courses.

And you do it with food and toys in your pockets.

Then there's intro where there are no weaves (except weavers), and the courses are short (7-8 obstacles) and mostly U or S shaped, though I am of the opinion that the dog should, at least in theory, be able to complete everything on a novice course and intro makes trials take forever, it's there and has it's uses. 

So the dog 'failing' in the ring is just basically impossible. Oh, you can get eliminated if you look at it cross-wise, but you don't have to do ANYTHING there except run in and run out.

And. Really. How do you learn to handle a trial environment and trialing without being in the environment and trialing, you know? Like what *is* the substitute for that and how do you work on trial issues if they only crop up in a trial and you're not trialing? How do you even discover them?


----------



## elrohwen

We had to skip our agility lesson last night because the highway was closed for an accident :-( We made so much progress last week that I was really looking forward to it. Though it was nice to spend the evening at home instead of in the car driving back and forth.


----------



## Laurelin

I thought Hank would see the trial the same way as a fun run. We trained at that ring weekly and also did a fun run there months prior. 

Yeah nope. He read the stress/atmosphere very differently. Mia did too when she trialled. Summer was oblivious but environmentally sensitive dogs...it can be hard. 

Even in NADAC you can't reward in the ring so I don't think it's fail proof. 

I don't honk you can replicate a trial but you can take the measures to be as confident as possible before entering the ring. 

If I could redo 

- I would have waited. Probably till after 1 1/2 + years of work 
- would have taken the show on the road more
- worked on fading rewards more (this is where I failed.)


I'd want to be certain we could run a full course flowingly (we can). had obstacle performance. Had no focus issues(cough). No stress issues. Etc. 

If I were to enter Id do one run and have no intention of running the course. My only focus would be on happy dog. 

In fact that's my plan after we finish our break/rework. Maybe we will be there in the spring but maybe not.


----------



## CptJack

No, you can't reward in the ring but you can sure as heck get out of the ring and reward in a hurry.

I don't know. Maybe that's really the thing. 

Molly can do a full course, though admittedly she's only had the one that I even bothered to try. Because our full courses are elite. Our shortened courses aren't all that farm off the novice ones. 

She has no focus issues - at all - in agility. None. Nil. Not one, ever. I lost her ONCE in a foundations class and she went exactly four steps and then downed when asked. She calls off everything. She works everywhere, around everything. She's done obedience work in freaking flyball tournaments. She doesn't randomly react to weird stuff and hasn't in months. She has no issue with people of any sort, doing anything, in any environment and no desire to visit them. 

She's performed agility in a good half dozen locations, now. She's got the training facility, the practice field, the field where our outdoor trials are held, the building where our January trial is, and a couple of random parks. No weaves, but work with me on agility in random busy locations? Not an issue. 

Literally my ONLY concern with this is her reactivity during downtime. Otherwise, I can't see a single thing that's going to make it a bad experience for her, short of like. A loose dog running into the ring with her and chasing her (...it's happened). I am going to spend more time talking about it and thinking about it though, for sure. I know it sounds like I'm married to the idea, but I'm not. I'm just sort of talking it out in my head and you're verbalizing one side of it 

Agility wise I can tell you exactly what she's going to mess up: Discriminations and taking hoops backward. Maybe, MAYBE, off courses in other ways, but it's not like she's a wild dog. I don't know. I guess we'll see where I am about December when that premium comes out. Or even more likely in January when we get to day of trial and I do or don't.


----------



## CptJack

And to be extra clear if I can find a way to keep agility going and get a solid plan between now and then, I will HAPPILY wait. I just need something in the gap. Or something, period. I need a plan, okay? I'll have one after Saturday. 

(Also thought of another negative for her and that's down to the people element. She's great now, but she doesn't want unsolicited attention and that's possible, too.)


----------



## pawsaddict

Sorry about the lack of agility opportunities coming up, CptJack. That's got to be really tough. I hope you can come up with a plan that you're happy with.

We had a pretty great class last night. I don't know if it was the Rescue Remedy or what, but I did feel a lot more at ease and I could tell that Nova was more relaxed too.

I did things slightly differently yesterday too. I came extra early to let her acclimatize to the area (lots of sniffing around before class started). I kept her out of her crate whenever possible to reward her for offered focus. And we played. A lot. She had a lot of fun, which was our goal. AND she did not break one start line stay! And she weaved 12 *real* weave poles (not the crappy makeshift ones I use at home), multiple times from some tough entries! And she nailed her contacts! Every time. We even did some backsides and threadles. Lots of stuff to work on, but I am very proud of her  It was so nice to see her have fun with agility again!

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


----------



## Kyllobernese

I knew when I trialed Kris on the two weekends that she was not nearly ready but other than trials, we have no fun trials or anything. I did a lot of Obedience work in the year and a half that I could not do the Agility with her so knew I had good control of her. Lucy had had a really good start in Agility and did trial once in 2013 but then did not do any Agility till about six months before the two trials and it took till the last two classes before we were really working together and she got Q's in both of them. Now except for practicing once a week at the arena, we will not be trialing again till early spring, probably March.


----------



## CptJack

So, The Plan.

The plan right now is basically that I'm going to pull Molly from agility (after we finish classes) for... some length of time and just do some behavioral modification work. Bottom line, I don't want her kicked out for some of her displays. That behavioral modification work is what we talked about first during the summer, but doing it while she was in class was something that wouldn't work and right now everyone's time is consumed by agility. So, probably November? Not sure, exactly, but it's going to happen.

I'll swing back around to agility with her, after that. Or, well, reevaluate after that. It's not about her ability to perform agility, exactly, just the... reactivity stuff. We'll keep working at home, of course, because it's good training but the goal we're working toward at the moment is just being able to be there comfortably. 

I'll still be in this thread with Kylie, though. Because we've got some weave issues to work on. Again.


----------



## Laurelin

We had a good class with some fun runs today. 

We need to work on rear crosses with him and we also need to work ont he aforementioned toy issue. 

But we had FAST weaves today and he also auto-downed on the table! Like a big boy!


----------



## Laurelin

I have to say the more dogs I'm around the more I think I hit the sweet spot with Hank as far as drive/speed/level headedness goes. I think he is the PERFECT speed of dog for me right now. Perfect 'step up' to learn on. I am surprising myself lately. As I get some distance on Hank I am finding I am more often too fast to my position vs too slow. Apparently my trainer thinks I can run pretty fast compared to most students, which is amusing considering how out of shape I am. Hank's no slouch running either but I am finding her yelling more often for me to wait or hang back for him. Actually I don't think she's ever told me I need to hurry up/run faster. 

I do think I'm addicted to fast dogs now. It's just so fun to run.


----------



## dogsule

Oh man, I am so missing agility classes. Our local class has been in hiatus since the beginning of August and right now they are negotiating the contract on the building, all the equipment is in storage. I haven't been able to get to the Wednesday classes (an hour away) because I have to get my daughter to her job that evening now. We don't have a trial until Nov (2 that month) so I am hoping we can get back in our local building and get going shortly in October! We did a semi private lesson on Saturday with two others at the place an hour away. At least it was something. Belle nailed her weaves like a pro! Working on her start stay and release though. Sometimes she won't hold her stay (which usually doesn't cause any problems) but then the next time she will totally blow me off when I release her (I just say "ok,come") and she will just sit there. I have no clue what the heck she is thinking at these times. So I think I will work on a new word, trainer told me how to work one in and what to do in class if she doesn't start when I tell her to. 

So what would you all do if you had a dog that when doing the teeter, would run to the middle and stop completely and then slowly make it go down and then continue on down. Would you try to make them learn to do it without a stop? Belle used to be terrified of the bang but is fine with it now but still stops on the teeter before making it go down. Trainer suggested having her on leash and make her pull me (without and slack) from one end of the teeter to the other to get a high value treat that is on the other end. If she slows down at all and isn't pulling, to make her back up and start over. Thoughts?? It is essentially teaching them to pull on the leash and not something I could do on my own, would need another person encouraging her with the treat. What would you all do if your dog had a stopping issue on the teeter?


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> So what would you all do if you had a dog that when doing the teeter, would run to the middle and stop completely and then slowly make it go down and then continue on down. Would you try to make them learn to do it without a stop? Belle used to be terrified of the bang but is fine with it now but still stops on the teeter before making it go down. Trainer suggested having her on leash and make her pull me (without and slack) from one end of the teeter to the other to get a high value treat that is on the other end. If she slows down at all and isn't pulling, to make her back up and start over. Thoughts?? It is essentially teaching them to pull on the leash and not something I could do on my own, would need another person encouraging her with the treat. What would you all do if your dog had a stopping issue on the teeter?


I personally don't like that suggestion at all. Doesn't make any sense to me, therefore it's most likely not going to make any sense to my dog. Seems like it could easily backfire and make her more adverse to the teeter, which is absolutely want you don't want. What would I do? I would add more value and excitement to the teeter. Zoey went through a phase where she was really "meh" about the teeter and was really slow on it and would sometimes just decide to jump off halfway. We worked on getting her super excited about doing the teeter (ready ready ready?!?!?! LETS GO!!) and then high value rewards and jackpots at the end every time for awhile. We had to build confidence and value around the teeter. I also broke out and worked on just the end behavior, so getting her to hop up on the down side and drive to the bottom and rewarding heavily for driving to the bottom, then putting the whole behavior back together. That's where I would probably start with my dog if I was getting super slow teeters. 

If I was getting signs that there was some fear still involved in the teeter (versus just not being particularly fond of it) I would probably consider going back and retraining it to eliminate that fear. I love the method my club uses to teach the teeter, starting with it propped up on 2 tables at even heights, then gradually and slowly reducing the height of the table on the down side. I would want to see confidence and excitement at each stage before lowering the down side table (increasing the drop).


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> I personally don't like that suggestion at all. Doesn't make any sense to me, therefore it's most likely not going to make any sense to my dog. Seems like it could easily backfire and make her more adverse to the teeter, which is absolutely want you don't want. What would I do? I would add more value and excitement to the teeter. Zoey went through a phase where she was really "meh" about the teeter and was really slow on it and would sometimes just decide to jump off halfway. We worked on getting her super excited about doing the teeter (ready ready ready?!?!?! LETS GO!!) and then high value rewards and jackpots at the end every time for awhile. We had to build confidence and value around the teeter. I also broke out and worked on just the end behavior, so getting her to hop up on the down side and drive to the bottom and rewarding heavily for driving to the bottom, then putting the whole behavior back together. That's where I would probably start with my dog if I was getting super slow teeters.
> 
> If I was getting signs that there was some fear still involved in the teeter (versus just not being particularly fond of it) I would probably consider going back and retraining it to eliminate that fear. I love the method my club uses to teach the teeter, starting with it propped up on 2 tables at even heights, then gradually and slowly reducing the height of the table on the down side. I would want to see confidence and excitement at each stage before lowering the down side table (increasing the drop).


Thank you! I am so glad I asked this cause I really didn't like her suggestion to resolve this. Belle's tail is wagging the whole time she is on the teeter and if there is a teeter around you can guarantee she will be on it. She is just hesitant to make it bang yet. I like your idea of the ready, ready thing which is what I am going to be doing to train a new release. I will probably use break, my original trainer (not the one with the teeter suggestion) told me to train it to have her sit stay next to me, do the ready, ready thing to get her excited (I already use this when playing ball with her) and then throw a toy/stick whatever and say break for her to go get it. She thinks that sometimes Belle is confused about what I want out of her which is why she blows me off sometimes.

Oh and go back a bit and you should be able to see one of my standard agility runs from this month, it shows how she does the teeter, it isn't terrible but it could be better.
Edited to add her run from the last trial. Sometimes she is a bit slower than this but this is pretty typical for her..


----------



## elrohwen

Last night's agility class was *so hard* for Watson. The instructor brought in a couple distraction dogs for us to work around, and he was so so distracted. You would think he would be used to this after taking classes his entire life, but it's hard every time. Just doing a sit with his back to the dogs and holding it until I called him was hard and he kept getting up and turning around. It didn't help that one dog ran over to use a couple times because I had meatballs (he was able to jump up on me while somehow completely ignoring my dog ... lol). 

We also re-introduced the teeter and Watson was so bad :-( In class over a year ago he had been doing ok, getting used to it, and then other dogs started banging it and he freaked out. And then we practiced it for like 4 weeks in a row and he freaked out more each time. I had to take him completely out of the building when those dogs used it, and he would no longer get within 10ft of it. Last night he was pretty panicked and putting one foot on it for the bang it game (where it barely moved) was hard. Even walking across a rocker board was hard.

This is the same dog who was ok with the movement on my friend's teeter last weekend. I kept it low and completely controlled the movement, but he was 100% ok with that. I think it's that specific agility ring, and that specific loud teeter, and all of his memories that make him so terrified. Poor puppy. I'm going to finish the wobble board and rocker board we started and work hard on those, and hopefully that will help.


----------



## trainingjunkie

elrohwen said:


> Last night's agility class was *so hard* for Watson. The instructor brought in a couple distraction dogs for us to work around, and he was so so distracted. You would think he would be used to this after taking classes his entire life, but it's hard every time. Just doing a sit with his back to the dogs and holding it until I called him was hard and he kept getting up and turning around. It didn't help that one dog ran over to use a couple times because I had meatballs (he was able to jump up on me while somehow completely ignoring my dog ... lol).
> 
> We also re-introduced the teeter and Watson was so bad :-( In class over a year ago he had been doing ok, getting used to it, and then other dogs started banging it and he freaked out. And then we practiced it for like 4 weeks in a row and he freaked out more each time. I had to take him completely out of the building when those dogs used it, and he would no longer get within 10ft of it. Last night he was pretty panicked and putting one foot on it for the bang it game (where it barely moved) was hard. Even walking across a rocker board was hard.
> 
> This is the same dog who was ok with the movement on my friend's teeter last weekend. I kept it low and completely controlled the movement, but he was 100% ok with that. I think it's that specific agility ring, and that specific loud teeter, and all of his memories that make him so terrified. Poor puppy. I'm going to finish the wobble board and rocker board we started and work hard on those, and hopefully that will help.


Have you worked the teeter without any motion? Then, with just a little drop but no bang? What you can do is prop the teeter so it doesn't shift and then teach your dog to run to the end and it doesn't tip at all and you reward at the end of the teeter, which is still in the air. Do a million of these. Then, let the end drop a couple of inches but not hit anything. When your dog does these, you lift him to the ground at the end or you have the end of the teeter on a raised platform that your dog can step onto.

In the meantime, shape your dog to ride in a wheelbarrow. Let him bail if he wants, but reward the heck out of him when he rides in it. Gets him used to a ton of motion without the sound and even the jumps teach him confidence in bailing and landing safely.

And then, in the meantime, stack up pots and pans and shape him knocking them over creating a loud "Bang" that he gets paid for and totally controls.

Once the pieces are all very strong, start the teeter over again, low. Should go well after the steps are solid.


----------



## elrohwen

trainingjunkie said:


> Have you worked the teeter without any motion? Then, with just a little drop but no bang? What you can do is prop the teeter so it doesn't shift and then teach your dog to run to the end and it doesn't tip at all and you reward at the end of the teeter, which is still in the air. Do a million of these. Then, let the end drop a couple of inches but not hit anything. When your dog does these, you lift him to the ground at the end or you have the end of the teeter on a raised platform that your dog can step onto.


This is some of the work we had done in class last year. It never ever banged while he was on it. The "bang game" was just putting his paws on the end and making it move 2" or so. We did a lot of stuff with both ends on a table so there was no movement or very little movement. Haven't let him run to the end while holding it up - he's over 40lbs so that would be tricky. I wouldn't be able to pick him up off the end easily.

All of the banging sounds were from the other dogs in class. There were two who were really not beginners, and on their turn they would fly across the teeter at full speed. Watson is fine with thunderstorms and even teeters at trials he's been to, but that teeter in that facility banging loudly was way too much for him. And of course the fact that they did it over and over every class for a month didn't help. Now he knows that the teeter bangs, so he doesn't even want to go near it really.



> In the meantime, shape your dog to ride in a wheelbarrow. Let him bail if he wants, but reward the heck out of him when he rides in it. Gets him used to a ton of motion without the sound and even the jumps teach him confidence in bailing and landing safely.


That's a good idea. That would be very difficult for him probably, but I can see if I can get him there.



> And then, in the meantime, stack up pots and pans and shape him knocking them over creating a loud "Bang" that he gets paid for and totally controls.


We've tried that. He's not a big fan but he will do it. I've just never gotten him to the point where he's actually enthusiastic about it. He does it because he wants the cookie.



> Once the pieces are all very strong, start the teeter over again, low. Should go well after the steps are solid.


We've never moved past the pieces  He was never near doing a full teeter though I did let him try it at my friend's house to see what he would do. The whole experience is really poisoned for him now. So I'm starting over with a dog who is a bit afraid of movement (which I can fix), but who also thinks that teeter in that building is going to eat him. This was one of the big reasons I quit that class, because he was starting to hate agility in general since he associated it with that teeter every week (long after we required him to even touch it; I spent those portions of class trying to get him to take treats anywhere within the building).


----------



## elrohwen

I kind of feel like the only way I will ever get him on a teeter is to buy one and train it myself. Or go to a new facility (which I've tried; long story). I feel like the one there will be always be evil to him until I can get him comfortable on a completely different teeter first.


----------



## trainingjunkie

elrohwen said:


> I kind of feel like the only way I will ever get him on a teeter is to buy one and train it myself. Or go to a new facility (which I've tried; long story). I feel like the one there will be always be evil to him until I can get him comfortable on a completely different teeter first.


No doubt, owning a teeter makes life easier. When I taught the teeter, I trained with a partner so I had help holding the end. Renting ring-time got us the teeter, but I do also own one.

I also took lessons in horsebarns. A lot less "bang" in dirt. Any chance the instructor would be willing to pad the down-side of the teeter to soften the noise in class for you? It's easy to do. Just tape foam on either the floor or the teeter at hit point. Then at least he wouldn't be scared when other dogs are running. You could do it for a couple of sessions without hurting other peoples' need to keep their dogs used to the sounds.


----------



## elrohwen

trainingjunkie said:


> No doubt, owning a teeter makes life easier. When I taught the teeter, I trained with a partner so I had help holding the end. Renting ring-time got us the teeter, but I do also own one.


Getting a ring rental is harder than finding someone to give me private lessons! I'm in the Bermuda Triangle of agility apparently. Haha.



> I also took lessons in horsebarns. A lot less "bang" in dirt. Any chance the instructor would be willing to pad the down-side of the teeter to soften the noise in class for you? It's easy to do. Just tape foam on either the floor or the teeter at hit point. Then at least he wouldn't be scared when other dogs are running. You could do it for a couple of sessions without hurting other peoples' need to keep their dogs used to the sounds.


Yeah, this is in a horse barn. It's so loud though. Maybe it's that teeter specifically? 

We're in private lessons now and the volunteer distraction dogs were told not to use the teeter (though people came in for the next class while we were leaving and they got right on the teeter)

I should have asked the instructor that in the last class but I didn't know that was an option. It was supposed to be a beginner class so it would have been nice to cater to the beginner dogs instead of the advanced ones who came because they had friends in the class. All the advice I got was "treat him whenever it bangs". Meanwhile he's having a full blown panic attack and we are having to physically leave the facility. I feel so bad. Like I let him down. I should have avocated for him more and asked the instructor to change something (even move us to another class, whatever). But she just didn't seem to notice or care that my dog went from learning the teeter to not getting within 10ft of it and trying to leave the building.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm going to try to catch up on the thread. The fdsa teeter class is a lifesaver. 

I was supposed to do a seminar on jumping this weekend but it got cancelled. . I apparent was the only person who signed up. What the heck.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I'm going to try to catch up on the thread. The fdsa teeter class is a lifesaver.
> 
> I was supposed to do a seminar on jumping this weekend but it got cancelled. . I apparent was the only person who signed up. What the heck.


I think I will have to try that next time it comes around. How much of it can you do without a real teeter?


----------



## Laurelin

Honestly, I wish I had had a full sized teeter. I think the first few weeks you can do without. But it is a prop heavy class. I had a tippy board and small teeter. Planks and things to prop them on and a ladder are also helpful. Once it clicker for Hank though it transferred over just fine to a real teeter.


----------



## elrohwen

I'm annoyed that Watson's fear has turned into this big of a thing. I should have at least talked to the instructor more or something. Asked them to work on the teeter at the end and just left. I just don't know if doing wobble board stuff at home will transfer that well to a piece of equipment that he's convinced eats dogs. lol The first class that it banged he was a little concerned, but recovered. The second class he was a little worse. And then by the 4th or 5th class I had to leave the building to keep him from panicking. Each class just confirmed his fear more and more.

I almost wonder if the instructor should just make it move up and down, no banging, while I work on other stuff with him it the arena. Let him get more comfortable with the fact that it does move but don't make him get anywhere near it. Then I can work on motion stuff outside of class. And maybe we could put it together. But he needs to get over his fear of that specific loud teeter if we're going to get anywhere. 


Laurelin, was the seminar just for your training facility people? I can't imagine why something as basic and important as jumping skills wouldn't fill up.


----------



## Laurelin

I know! Yeah it was advertised for my training facility and it's held by someone whose seminars usually fill up. Kind of bummed to say the least. I can't believe I was the -only- person interested.

Ok so the big thing with the FDSA class is teaching the dog that they control movement and loud noises and empowering the dog. A lot of teeter work I have seen is more focused on getting the dog to just do the teeter and get through it vs empowering. In the FDSA class you don't move on till your dog is very pushy towards the teeter/noises/movement/height. The first couple weeks have no teeter at all and are just a ton of games involving movement and sound. Then the next week you add height games. Etc. The class is definitely geared towards afraid of the teeter dogs.

It's all pretty intuitive really but gave me enough creative sparks to go 'Aha!' and fix our problems. Hank was fine with wobble boards and the bang game before the class but freaked around the big teeter. Despite not having the teeter at home the concepts really transferred over. Hank is pretty freaky about sound and movement and height (outside of tree climbing). Bridges freak him out for example. It's all pretty connected to 'teeter issues'. Usually it's an issue with 1) movement 2) sound or 3) height or all 3. Sounds like with Watson it's the sound.

I've always seen people progress the teeter either by luring nervous dogs over it (badwrong) or by bang game then having the dog run across a very lowered teeter and gradually increase height. 

Ironically enough my trainer does not lower the teeter anymore either. I didn't do foundations with her but another of the trainers. But what my current trainer does is very similar to the FDSA class. I can't remember what seminar or training method she got it from though. I'm seeing a LOT less teeter issues in my classmates too. 

From what you say about Watson the noise games sound like they could help some. Though it would be good to have time later on around that specific noise. But I would do it after having played a bunch of noise related games.


----------



## elrohwen

That's cool. Yeah, he definitely needs some empowerment. Haha. Maybe if he learns that he controls the teeter, and it's not a dog eating monster, he will be better. And he needs to learn that he controls the noise too.

The trainer we are working with likes to teach the dogs to pull down the teeter from the high side. So first you pull it down and start it on the ground, then 1", etc. Get the dog to slam their feet on it, treat, then push them off so that they are pushing right back to get on. Basically, like you said, getting them pushy about wanting to get on with their front feet, and then gradually adding height. You gradually raise it until the dog has to stand on their hind legs and kind of reach for it and pull it down. She does all of that, plus getting them used to motion on wobble boards and tippy boards and stuff. She said once they're confidently pulling it down, and not worried about movement on the wobble board, it's usually pretty straightforward to move on to the actual teeter stuff (lowering it or using tables if needed). I hadn't seen anybody teach it quite like that before and I like it. Hazel is a little concerned with motion on the wobble board but not really afraid, so I think she will get it quickly especially if I work on the motion stuff at home. Watson didn't even want to be near the teeter, just to put his feet on the end that was on the ground. He would touch one paw to it like it was on fire and then jump back.


----------



## Laurelin

I dunno if you can buy the lectures for the teeter class or not right now? But I loved their games. Not sure I would spring for gold again but the games gave me some new ideas. 

My trainer does the teeter similarly. The only dogs I've watched in the end stages of slamming the end are all dogs that were big enough or athletic enough to slam the teeter full height on the high end. That's how we finished up Hank's training. By the end he was all about jumping on that teeter. 

My trainer will prop it with a table but doesn't lower it at all anymore. It's interesting to see the new methods.


----------



## elrohwen

Unless it's a retired class or a pre-req for something else on the schedule, you have to wait for it to come around again to buy the lectures unfortunately.

I kind of don't care about the teeter that much right now honestly. I have bigger fish to fry just getting him to stay with me in agility. If all we could do was a sequence of 3 jumps and a tunnel where I felt he was really connected and not thinking about running away every 2sec, I would be thrilled. The obstacle stuff can come later. But I do worry that his fear of the teeter in general hurts his confidence about being there and taking classes. It's not the only reason he runs off because he did that before the teeter work started, but it doesn't help. If he could just confidently put his feet on it in the down position without thinking it's going to eat him, that would be enough progress for me for a while.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> I know! Yeah it was advertised for my training facility and it's held by someone whose seminars usually fill up. Kind of bummed to say the least. I can't believe I was the -only- person interested.
> 
> Ok so the big thing with the FDSA class is teaching the dog that they control movement and loud noises and empowering the dog. A lot of teeter work I have seen is more focused on getting the dog to just do the teeter and get through it vs empowering. In the FDSA class you don't move on till your dog is very pushy towards the teeter/noises/movement/height. The first couple weeks have no teeter at all and are just a ton of games involving movement and sound. Then the next week you add height games. Etc. The class is definitely geared towards afraid of the teeter dogs.
> 
> It's all pretty intuitive really but gave me enough creative sparks to go 'Aha!' and fix our problems. Hank was fine with wobble boards and the bang game before the class but freaked around the big teeter. Despite not having the teeter at home the concepts really transferred over. Hank is pretty freaky about sound and movement and height (outside of tree climbing). Bridges freak him out for example. It's all pretty connected to 'teeter issues'. Usually it's an issue with 1) movement 2) sound or 3) height or all 3. Sounds like with Watson it's the sound.
> 
> I've always seen people progress the teeter either by luring nervous dogs over it (badwrong) or by bang game then having the dog run across a very lowered teeter and gradually increase height.
> 
> Ironically enough my trainer does not lower the teeter anymore either. I didn't do foundations with her but another of the trainers. But what my current trainer does is very similar to the FDSA class. I can't remember what seminar or training method she got it from though. I'm seeing a LOT less teeter issues in my classmates too.
> 
> From what you say about Watson the noise games sound like they could help some. Though it would be good to have time later on around that specific noise. But I would do it after having played a bunch of noise related games.


That teeter class sounds awesome. We don't have anything like that around here. Wish we would have, probably would have worked well for Belle.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> I'm annoyed that Watson's fear has turned into this big of a thing. I should have at least talked to the instructor more or something. Asked them to work on the teeter at the end and just left. I just don't know if doing wobble board stuff at home will transfer that well to a piece of equipment that he's convinced eats dogs. lol The first class that it banged he was a little concerned, but recovered. The second class he was a little worse. And then by the 4th or 5th class I had to leave the building to keep him from panicking. Each class just confirmed his fear more and more.
> 
> I almost wonder if the instructor should just make it move up and down, no banging, while I work on other stuff with him it the arena. Let him get more comfortable with the fact that it does move but don't make him get anywhere near it. Then I can work on motion stuff outside of class. And maybe we could put it together. But he needs to get over his fear of that specific loud teeter if we're going to get anywhere.
> 
> 
> Laurelin, was the seminar just for your training facility people? I can't imagine why something as basic and important as jumping skills wouldn't fill up.


Hopefully Watson can overcome his fear. Belle used to try to run out of the building when she heard the teeter bang. It took awhile but I started treating her every time it banged and even though it still freaked her out when she heard it, she looked to me for a treat vs trying to run away. She was never afraid of getting onto it though except very early on. She got over the fear of the actual teeter itself pretty quickly (vs the fear of the bang) and learned to like it cause she got treated so much when she was on it. For a long time I just put treats at the end and then I controlled how the teeter moved. Our instructor never lowered the teeter either but I think that would have helped a lot of the dogs if she would have. While I don't know if she will ever be great at the teeter Belle is good enough for trialing with it anyway. Just has that stop in the middle, it is getting better though slowly.


----------



## elrohwen

dogsule said:


> That teeter class sounds awesome. We don't have anything like that around here. Wish we would have, probably would have worked well for Belle.


The teeter class is online! You can take it the next time it comes around 



dogsule said:


> Hopefully Watson can overcome his fear. Belle used to try to run out of the building when she heard the teeter bang. It took awhile but I started treating her every time it banged and even though it still freaked her out when she heard it, she looked to me for a treat vs trying to run away. She was never afraid of getting onto it though except very early on. She got over the fear of the actual teeter itself pretty quickly (vs the fear of the bang) and learned to like it cause she got treated so much when she was on it. For a long time I just put treats at the end and then I controlled how the teeter moved. Our instructor never lowered the teeter either but I think that would have helped a lot of the dogs if she would have. While I don't know if she will ever be great at the teeter Belle is good enough for trialing with it anyway. Just has that stop in the middle, it is getting better though slowly.


Yeah, I think Watson will also get over the movement much faster than he gets over his fear of the noise. Hopefully we can work through it! Previously he wouldn't even take treats in the building when it was banging, which is pretty bad. I've almost never seen him not take treats. It's good to hear stories of others with the same problems and how they worked through it!


----------



## trainingjunkie

I'm not a paid spokesperson or anything, but this class is lining up to be pretty amazing. I took Nancy's problem-solving class last session and can promise that she really pours her heart out and has a great eye. For the $65, it's a bargain. Tons of variety in breeds, experience levels, and issues. Worth the time and money. And it just started yesterday.

http://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/3542


----------



## sassafras

Oh I was so clumsy tonight. Squash is such a good guy, though, he's cheerful and willing no matter what. I FORGIVE YOU FOOD LADY LET'S TRY AGAIN.

On the plus side, we are really grokking send outs and wraps, and I can consistently verbally send him to a tunnel which saves me SO much time to set up for the next obstacle. 

Toast has been coming to class a bit here and there to just learn how to sit patiently in a kennel while stuff is going on around him. He's doing pretty well, although thank goodness my husband comes to help me out. I don't think Toast is ready to watch me run Squash without a babysitter.


----------



## sassafras

The teeter is hands down Squash's favorite obstacle. It seems like when dogs get a little zoomie-ish on a course they each have a particular obstacle they do... one dog in class LOVES tunnels, another the A-frame, etc. Squash? Teeter. I'm soooo grateful he doesn't have any sensitivity about it.


----------



## MrsBoats

sassafras said:


> The teeter is hands down Squash's favorite obstacle. It seems like when dogs get a little zoomie-ish on a course they each have a particular obstacle they do... one dog in class LOVES tunnels, another the A-frame, etc. Squash? Teeter. I'm soooo grateful he doesn't have any sensitivity about it.


Ocean's favorite obstacle is the teeter too! LOL All he needs is to hear it bang and he's all "OH HELLS YEAH....GONNA RUN ME SOME AGILITIES!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" LOL Most people have a tunnel sucker....I have a teeter sucker. 

This is a horrifying photo of me shouting "EASY!!!!!!"....but lookit O smile on that teeter!! ROFL http://www.mcaoe.com/092715 FLKC NOV OPN STD/32/med/LAK_9340.htm

I'm going to do a rare NADAC trial with O in a couple of weeks because a friend of mine is judging it. Ocean will be devastated there's no teeter at all out there for him.


----------



## sassafras

Ha I always have to shout EASY on the teeter, too!


----------



## LoMD13

MrsBoats said:


> Ocean's favorite obstacle is the teeter too! LOL All he needs is to hear it bang and he's all "OH HELLS YEAH....GONNA RUN ME SOME AGILITIES!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" LOL Most people have a tunnel sucker....I have a teeter sucker.
> 
> This is a horrifying photo of me shouting "EASY!!!!!!"....but lookit O smile on that teeter!! ROFL http://www.mcaoe.com/092715 FLKC NOV OPN STD/32/med/LAK_9340.htm
> 
> I'm going to do a rare NADAC trial with O in a couple of weeks because a friend of mine is judging it. Ocean will be devastated there's no teeter at all out there for him.


Which NADAC trial are you doing? I was going to try and get one NADAC in before the November USDAA one. Lola has had dog-walk suck lately because I've been treating the heck out of it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

If Kairi hasn't been on the teeter in awhile, she tends to forget that it goes down and kinda tries to fly... so I always have to tell her to SLOOOOWWW DOWN on the thing. I can't seem to figure out what her favorite is. She likes tunnels for sure, but she's also had a thing about the table too. Jumps are boooooring.

Yeah.. once spring rolls around I think I need to make a teeter. She really needs to work on that and we really don't get much time during class. It wasn't out during my last private session but hopefully it will be next time. She has a contact but we are trying to do a four on instead of a two on for the teeter. I want to make it a more independent obstacle. 

Getting nervous. First trial is in two weeks.


----------



## MrsBoats

LoMD13 said:


> Which NADAC trial are you doing? I was going to try and get one NADAC in before the November USDAA one. Lola has had dog-walk suck lately because I've been treating the heck out of it.


October 17th and 18th down here in RI. I'm only going to do a couple of classes - jumpers, regular, weavers,and tunnelers. Those are the ones O has legs in already.


----------



## elrohwen

We built some wobbly stuff today and it confirmed my thought that Watson isn't as afraid of movement as he is the noise from that specific teeter in class . He was all over the mini teeter thing I made, even more than Hazel. So that's good! We'll keep working on it. Doing it at home is less scary than the training facility I guess. 

Hazel is still adorable. She is hard to lure and acts like she has no idea what you want, then after the second rep she just runs across the whole board perfectly and looks at you like "This is what you wanted? Why didn't you say so?!" There is no gradual building of criteria with her. She is so smart and so easy and lets me get away with being a very bad trainer. 

Watson thought it was fun to put his front paws on the pivot point and balance it so we did that a lot. Haha.


----------



## LoMD13

MrsBoats said:


> October 17th and 18th down here in RI. I'm only going to do a couple of classes - jumpers, regular, weavers,and tunnelers. Those are the ones O has legs in already.



Cool! I haven't signed up yet, but I'm leaning towards going on Saturday. Lola's 1 leg away from novice titles in standard and tunnelers.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Cool! I haven't signed up yet, but I'm leaning towards going on Saturday. Lola's 1 leg away from novice titles in standard and tunnelers.


This is exactly where I am with Kylie. I have NO IDEA what's going to happen at the upcoming trial though. I WISH I could come to the one with you guys, though!


----------



## DogTheGreat

Still on the teeter topic, Shae was a bit afraid at first but got used to it pretty quickly and doesn't mind it at all. The sand bags that were put under the high end to reduce the bang and make it softer on impact, though? TERRIFYING things worthy of endless growls apparently. Dogs are so weird. I was going to sign Shae up for the next agility class but it wasn't going to work out. Bummer because we'll be waiting a couple of more months, but I do have some equipment and we can work on foundations at least. Or I could sign up at another club, but I liked the one we are at. Hmph!


----------



## CptJack

Oh! Our tiny club ended up with *three* dogs in finals at champs! That's HUGE! Two of them were run by my instructor and I still don't know placements, but STILL.


----------



## elrohwen

We spent some time building the wobble board and tippy board stuff this weekend. Wobble board is still being painted and I want to add a non-slip finish, but the tippy board is ready to go.

It took Watson about 30sec to stand on the pivot point with his front feet, banging it back and forth (not what I was trying to shape, just what he felt like offering). And another minute to walk across the whole thing. So yeah, clearly some noise and movement is not that big of a deal to him. He was better about it than Hazel. I'll have to take a video before Tuesday because I don't think the agility instructor will believe me.


----------



## kadylady

Tuesday Tuesday Tuesday!!!!!!! Skye and Zoey BOTH start classes on Tuesday!!!!! I'm so beyond excited for both of them!!! Skye starts Intro and Zoey is doing Competition Readiness. Will be keeping jumps low and avoiding the A-frame and weaves with Zoey to start with but I'm just so crazy excited that we are able to start class again!!!!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Now the weather is getting colder, it won't be that long before we cannot do Agility in the arena as it will be just too cold. Have done it in the past wearing a heavy coat, touque and boots but a little awkward. I am taking Kris into the arena three times a week right now to practice both Agility and Obedience and somebody has brought the Rally signs so have been doing that more than the Obedience which Kris gets bored doing much of. I take Lucy and Remmy in on Saturdays to do Agility in the afternoons as do them separately from the big dogs so have a group of three Paps, my sister's Rat Terrier and my two Shih Tzu x Maltese. We also do have a Stumpy Tail Cattle dog which is just medium sized that comes.

At least when the weather gets too cold we will still be able to do the Rally and Obedience in a heated place above the arena.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson did so well in our lesson last night. He was still a bit freaked out by the teeter in general (like, just the fact that it was in the same room with him), but he was able to play the bang game and wasn't nearly as nervous about it when he was controlling it. He also flew across the tippy board and was doing awkward sits on the wobble board, so looks like he's not afraid of those any more. He did want to leave if we were standing around talking (because that teeter could come alive at any moment), but once I got him working he was able to follow me off leash (basically shadow handling stuff) while the instructor worked her dog over some obstacles. He didn't leave me once. So progress! He is so aware of everything that goes on in that building and I hope he will start to feel more confident soon. When he knows exactly what he's supposed to do it helps calm him down


----------



## elrohwen

I forgot to mention what Hazel did in class last night. She ran across the little teeter board thingy, and did 2o2o contacts at the ends. She did it 3 times in a row and clearly on purpose, looking very pleased with herself.

The thing is, I've never really taught her that. We worked on 2o2o like 2 or 3 times with a board over a month ago, and then I forgot about it. I have no idea how she made that connection. Up until this week she wasn't even comfortable with running across the whole tippy board, so this was the first time she's done it confidently, *and* she added 2o2o at the end. Weird puppy.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank and I have been doing good. It is obvious that we both excel in instances where we have to really run vs instances of close handling. It sucks because I enjoy the running the most.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have been working on the 2o2o on the contact equipment with Kris. She is really good on the teeter and dog walk but has trouble coming to a stop on the A-frame and I am wondering if I should persevere with it or just be happy to have her run to the bottom but not stopping. I am leery as years ago Susie hurt her shoulder coming to a full stop on the A-frame. What do most people do that have big dogs? Do you make them come to a dead stop on the A-frame?


----------



## sassafras

I tried, but I don't have the patience to teach a full stop. I just cue an EAAASSSYYY once he hits the top, he knows it from mushing and from the teeter (where he will actually stop at the pivot point) and will usually slow down enough for a nice running contact off the A-frame. 

He's not really the kind of dog to take crazy leaps off of contact equipment, though. I'm not sure that would work if he were. Toast is the one I'm going to have trouble with, there, so I think I'm going to have to suck it up and teach the stop when the time comes.


----------



## CptJack

Since I realized my kid has a birthday the 19th, I'm not doing the trial on the 17th and 18th in NC. So I then realized there was an opportunity to participate in an agility demo that weekend and figured, meh, it's much closer and I can just do one day. So Kylie and I are doing that. 

...so while y'all are playing NADAC, I'm going to be off playing AKC.

In other news, last night's practice was almost laughable. I could NOT keep my head together. Kylie did everything I asked her to? It's just that. What I asked her to do wasn't the course. Like, at all.


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel is signed up for her first agility class on October 24th!! I'm feeling so good about this. We've worked on a lot of foundation stuff already, and she's split some private lessons with Watson, and she's good off leash. I think this is going to be so much fun.

I picked a place in CT instead of our usual place. Driving there in the winter will suck (really twisty back roads) but at least it's inside and heated, not in a horse arena. I went there for one private lesson with the head agility trainer (she won't be doing the beginner class) and I really liked her and the way she taught.


----------



## Laurelin

Kyllobernese said:


> I have been working on the 2o2o on the contact equipment with Kris. She is really good on the teeter and dog walk but has trouble coming to a stop on the A-frame and I am wondering if I should persevere with it or just be happy to have her run to the bottom but not stopping. I am leery as years ago Susie hurt her shoulder coming to a full stop on the A-frame. What do most people do that have big dogs? Do you make them come to a dead stop on the A-frame?


Hank is not a big dog but I absolutely need full stops on the contacts with him. I am sure some people could handle him with running contacts but I'm just not at that level myself (and I feel like to get good running contacts I'd need to own the contact obstacles and have a bigger yard). 

It's not really that he leaps off (well he probably would) but that I NEED a couple breaks in a run to reset my handling. Especially if the a-frame or something is in a long straight line, he's pretty much guaranteed to beat me there all the time. There's been a couple times where I really need to cross after the a-frame so they've been helpful there. 

Honestly, teaching the full stop has been really really easy for us though some of it may be that Hank just really likes putting his back feet on things as a trick.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I always did running contacts with Remmy but when I started with Lucy, I did 2o2o and I know how much it helps in catching up and getting in position when they do the 2o2o. Lucy does them really well on all the equipment. When I try to get Kris to do it on the A frame she ends up sliding down on her butt trying to slow down which looks really uncomfortable. Maybe if I try it more with the A'frame not as steep she will figure it out.


----------



## sassafras

Yea the speed is a good point. We're getting better at verbal object discrimination and sends because he is often too fast for me to keep up regardless of the obstacles, but also when he "easy's" he usually slows down enough for me to catch up enough.


----------



## elrohwen

Full stops on the A-frame always looked uncomfortable to me even for smaller dogs. The angle is so steep coming down. I imagine a big dog coming down at speed is really going to jam their shoulder.


----------



## Laurelin

With Hank I've had to get strict with the 2o/2o because at speed he sometimes flies through them then tries to back up. I have to redo the entire obstacle vs back him back up onto it. 

I'm really actually keeping up with Hank! It's kind of surprising since I'm a bigger girl lol but I find I am just as often slowing down to get into position as I am running like a madman. That said on straight lines, I have to sprint. He can do distance but he works a lot better if I can stay close. I absolutely LOVE the running part of agility (for the handler).


----------



## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> Full stops on the A-frame always looked uncomfortable to me even for smaller dogs. The angle is so steep coming down. I imagine a big dog coming down at speed is really going to jam their shoulder.


There is some debate on which way is safer. The idea is to get them to drop their shoulders as they come down but Hank is very straight in the shoulders (very terrier in build) so he doesn't. 

The thing with running contacts and big dogs is that to do a TRUE running contact (vs a pray they hit it type deal) you have to do a ton of repetitions to get them striding correctly and to maintain it. So some people worry about the repetitions needed for that method and repeatedly slamming the shoulders on that method too.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> There is some debate on which way is safer. The idea is to get them to drop their shoulders as they come down but Hank is very straight in the shoulders (very terrier in build) so he doesn't.
> 
> The thing with running contacts and big dogs is that to do a TRUE running contact (vs a pray they hit it type deal) you have to do a ton of repetitions to get them striding correctly and to maintain it. So some people worry about the repetitions needed for that method and repeatedly slamming the shoulders on that method too.


Oh yeah, all of the training for running contacts also seems bad for shoulders. In general a few things in agility just seem kind of unsafe to me and I don't think it's possible to train them perfectly so there is no chance of injury. Maybe I'm a worrier. And it's not like my own dogs are going to enough agility in their lives that they're likely to get a repetitive stress injury specifically. But the A-frame and the height of jumps both bother me a bit.


----------



## sassafras

elrohwen said:


> And it's not like my own dogs are going to enough agility in their lives that they're likely to get a repetitive stress injury specifically.


That's kind of where I am. I think a lot of the obstacles are sort of inherently risky for injury, but so are almost any sport that people or dogs do. But it's not like I'm hard-core, and I do a lot of balance/strength/ body awareness/ cross training with my dogs so I think the risk for my dogs is pretty low.

My favorite "keep up with your fast dog" is sending him from an obstacle to a tunnel without having to run to the tunnel entrance with him. Man you can cover so much ground while a big dog is in a tunnel.


----------



## elrohwen

sassafras said:


> That's kind of where I am. I think a lot of the obstacles are sort of inherently risky for injury, but so are almost any sport that people or dogs do. But it's not like I'm hard-core, and I do a lot of balance/strength/ body awareness/ cross training with my dogs so I think the risk for my dogs is pretty low.
> 
> My favorite "keep up with your fast dog" is sending him from an obstacle to a tunnel without having to run to the tunnel entrance with him. Man you can cover so much ground while a big dog is in a tunnel.


Yeah, I worry more about it as a general thing in the sport, because there are people who do it hardcore, and it seems to me like the governing bodies could make things safer so dogs can do it longer with less risk. But my own dogs are more likely to injure themselves running around like idiots at home than they are in agility at this point.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Because of Kris' height, she would have to jump 26 inches in AAC, I started her right off in Specials so she only jumps 22 inches. I know she can jump 26 but I do not see the need for her to. It also means the A-frame is at a lower height too as they lower it for Specials and Vets. She does not get extra time like the Vets do but think it is easier on her at the lower height. I will have to check the height of the A-frame I am practicing over as it may be at the higher height.

With Lucy on the 2o2o, I had to make sure if she missed the contact that she did not back up onto it as that would be a disqualification in a trial. She is pretty reliable at hitting them although I still say "touch" and ok to release her. Eventually I will probably phase that out as she gets more experience.


----------



## elrohwen

Waton's jump height is 20", which is taller than he is. And he's a heavier boned dog. It just seems way way too high for him to be doing regularly. Assuming we never compete I'd be fine leaving him at 12" forever in classes. I see dogs who fly over those heights, but they are generally the lighter boned super athletic dogs.


----------



## Laurelin

The only thing about jump heights that really bothers me is the lack of catering to tiny dogs in some venues. Well that's for US jump heights. I think there are far too few jump heights overseas and it's a shame the 'large dog' people have to jump 26" here. I've seen some pretty darn small BCs doing 26" because that's what they have to jump internationally. But I think for people with sights set lower AKC has pretty fair jump heights. I do think they could use an 18" or something though to split up the 16" class. That might just be me complaining since Hank is a 16" dog though. It's just it seems like to me there's a bigger difference in overall size between a 14" dog and an 18" dog compared to the other classes. 18"-22" is also a 4" difference but in comparison to size it's smaller. It seems like 16" is way more often dominated by the larger dogs in the class though compared to the other classes.


----------



## Laurelin

sassafras said:


> That's kind of where I am. I think a lot of the obstacles are sort of inherently risky for injury, but so are almost any sport that people or dogs do. But it's not like I'm hard-core, and I do a lot of balance/strength/ body awareness/ cross training with my dogs so I think the risk for my dogs is pretty low.
> 
> My favorite "keep up with your fast dog" is sending him from an obstacle to a tunnel without having to run to the tunnel entrance with him. Man you can cover so much ground while a big dog is in a tunnel.


I honestly think the risk for most dogs going out and being dogs is probably higher than agility in particular. There is definitely a risk but of the sport dogs I know, most injuries seem to occur either playing with another dog or just running off leash vs during sports.

I am way more concerned about Hank jumping 7' out of the tree like he likes to do or doing backflips off my fence like he also likes to do. He does 'rebounds' probably at least 12 x a day because that's his natural response to being excited.


----------



## Laurelin

There's nothing wrong with doing specials/performance if that's what's best for the dog. 

Last week Hank and I actually ran a sequence without realizing it was half at 16" and half at 20". I was so confused because on the last jump I heard him barely hit the bar (didn't knock it but you could hear him clip it).


----------



## CptJack

I won't jump my dogs higher than their height - period. If that means dropping down to skilled (or whatever) so be it, but I'm not doing it. I have, accidentally run Kylie at freaking 16" before (that's INSANE) for her, for a few jumps, so it's not like I think she can't do it. It's that agility jumps are something dogs do lots and lots of. Most courses you get each contact obstacle once, and weaves once. And then a whole bunch of jumps, even in NADAC with hoops taking up some of those jumps. So, it's way more repetitive IMO, than anything else they do and for me that increases my desire to be cautious and careful.

I don't worry about agility safety in general at all, and I do think that the odds are higher of being out dogging than doing agility. Everyone makes their own calls and I think in general we all make good calls to keep our dogs safe when and where and how we can.

For me, the line is the dog's height.


----------



## sassafras

Yea Squash's jump height is 26" but I never jump him that high at home or in class. Nor will I probably ever in a trial. 

And I wasn't saying that agility is super dangerous or dogs shouldn't do it or people don't care about their dogs, but for dogs who do agility a LOT repetitive injuries are an inherent risk. No it's not going to be as dramatic as what happens when a dog back flips off a tree, but over time those stresses accumulate. We know a lot about repetitive stress injuries in people, it's no different for dogs doing the same tasks over and over.


----------



## Laurelin

In USDAA all dogs jump the height of their shoulders or higher in championship. (In AKC half the class jumps taller than they are and half jumps lower, which I find a bit less fair). I think how high is too high really depends on the dog.

For example my friend's Cardi jumps soooooooo much better at 12" for USDAA than 8" for AKC. I've seen that in a few cases. Hank should jump 12" in TDAA but he has a super hard time lining himself up for the tire in that organization because he naturally just jumps big. If I watch videos and pause as he goes over the bar he is often jumping the 16" bar at 18-20". So I really don't have any issue jumping him in championship. 

I'm not saying there is no risk for repetitive injury. I think the risk is not terribly high for people who do agility a couple times a week at most. I think the sport has definitely gotten safer over the years but there's a few changes I wouldn't mind seeing. I have seen a couple really bad accidents...almost always the tire- even the breakaway ones, I've seen dogs miss the hoop and get hung up on the cable. Metal jump cups are another big issue. The long chute is also still controversial.


----------



## CptJack

Even in AKC you have the option of running at a lower jump height. I don't think anyone should be forced to take it, but I do think it's an important option to have available. There is a lot more jumping in agility than almost anything else. For me that's really what it comes down to. If there's going to be a repetitive use issue for a dog in agility, it's probably going to come from jumping. No matter how good the form, there's a lot of it, and landing on their shoulders. Lower jump heights doesn't remove that but it DOES take some of the force out. Being able to opt into a lower jump height is good for people who aren't comfortable with that. 

And, yes, there are still accidents that happen in other places, and there are things that could be made safer over all, but there IS always going to be some inherent risk you can't control. Jumping at all. Falling off the dog walk. Tire issues. Flying off the teeter or being 'bounced'/whacked by it when it comes up (seen that, scary). Tangling in the chute. But you can limit some of those risks in training, and some of them need to be dealt with on an organizational level, some of them you accept, and some you mitigate based on your own comfort level.

For me, jump heights fall into category four, is all.


----------



## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> I'm not saying there is no risk for repetitive injury. I think the risk is not terribly high for people who do agility a couple times a week at most.


That's essentially what I agreed with/said originally, too.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah the option should definitely be there. That's what frustrates me in USDAA- there is no option for tiny dogs. My trainer ran an 8" Chihuahua. Even dropped to performance the dog is jumping shoulder height. I would never have had Summer jump 12" either.

But... I do want to be careful to not suggest that people choosing to jump their dogs high are choosing poorly or choosing riskier. It really does depend on the dog. The issue with jumping Hank low is that he just is going to have tire issues and those worry me a heck of a lot more than jump issues. Hank is a sproingy dog anyways and spends half his life off the ground anyways. 

Some dogs really don't 'respect' the jumps if they're too low- meaning they don't bother to try to jump nicely or collect. I was watching a BC recently and the bars were at 14" and I was afraid the dog was going to kill himself just barreling through and not collecting. 

I do think for certain dogs jumping higher is actually safer. Don't have a ton of proof but just anecdotes of watching some dogs take higher jumps with a LOT better form.


----------



## CptJack

Yep, agreed.

Molly's measured jump-height is 20", and if she ever does agility I might well run her at that height. She does okay at 16", mind you and that's more likely, but she does NOT do well lower than that. She does stupid crap like try to push off the bar or just hop vertically up and over and that's way scarier for me to watch than her at heights that aren't so low. 









That's Kylie at 8". She NARROWLY measures into 12" regular. Very, very, very narrowly. Tenths of an inch. She could do 12", but. ...I don't think that would do well for her long term and I don't see much point in trying. She's fine there.

(And also if my dogs didn't BARELY measure into their height classes, I wouldn't think about it twice, probably).


----------



## Laurelin

Hank measures into 12" somehow in TDAA. And he would be 12" USDAA performance if I drop him lower than his measured height. Running him at 12" is almost laughable. Maybe when he's an old dog he'll be less crazy?


----------



## Kyllobernese

Looked up CKC and Kris would jump 24 inches or could drop down to 20 but I would be alright with the 24 to start with. I have also seen dogs that jump better at a higher height than too low. 

Our little 10 inch dogs jump 10 inches or can be dropped down to 6 inches but never did that till Remmy was starting to just knock down some jumps after a few years of trialing. Kiska is only 8 inches so started her right out in Specials so she jumped 6 inches. (That was in AAC, not CKC)


----------



## sassafras

Oh absolutely I didn't mean that it's wrong to jump dogs at their jump height/higher. But 26" feels SO high for me for Squash. Toast, I think can and will jump that height no problem because he's built like a dang gazelle. He's also 20# lighter than Squash, who is heavier and has a much more... ponderous? build and he doesn't really care if he plows through jumps especially if he's tired or it smacks of too much effort to jump.


----------



## kadylady

Zoey and Skye both did so great in their classes this week!! And I'm so happy to be back! 

Skye worked and focused so great. There are 8 dogs in her class and she acted like they weren't even there. Skill wise we didn't do anything new to her, worked on shaping jumps, did a straight tunnel, introduced a low A-frame. She just loved it all and worked with me so great. I was so proud of her.

Zoey was so excited to be back, she started crying as soon as we pulled up to the building. She was so happy to see everyone and be there, saying hi to people she didn't even know! Her class is all course work, so we kept the jumps at 8 and skipped the A-frame and weaves for now. She did so great! I instructed everyone to stop me if they saw anything in her movement that looked odd or off at all and everyone said she looked great. Instructor said he never saw any hesitation or missteps or anything. She had her vet appointment last night and the vet was really impressed with how she's doing. She said we could go ahead and keep slowly increasing jump height, start doing some limited weaves, and keep increasing the intensity of her conditioning work! So....I stopped at the post office on our way home from the vets and mailed entries for a CPE trial in 2 weeks! The great thing about CPE is that I can just enter her in the short games classes that are only like 10-12 obstacles or the classes where I choose our course, just to get the remaining Q's we need for Nationals. I'm so thrilled to finally be at what feels like a turning point in this whole ordeal!


----------



## elrohwen

I agree, it depends on the dog. That's why I emphasized Watson's build so much. There are probably 25lb BCs his height (about 19.5"), but he's a lean 43lbs and just has a lot of bone and body to move around compared to some dogs. I can imagine him jumping 20" here and there (if he would even enjoy it, but that's another story). But I can't imagine him jumping that height all the time or in competition. I do appreciate that there is a lower height available and that's definitely what we would do if we ever got to competition. There's also the mental part to consider. He's an extremely careful jumper and has a pretty jump, but he's careful to the point of psyching himself out when jumps get too high or when he knocks a bar. Building him up to 20", if I could even get him to do it, doesn't seem fair when he can be perfectly happy at a lower height.

Hazel is lighter built and more athletic than he is, and she will probably end up in the upper end of the 16" category, so I probably won't have a problem jumping her full height if we get there.


----------



## elrohwen

Kadylady, that is so great!! Glad they both had wonderful classes and I'm so glad Zoey is feeling well again.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

kadylady said:


> Zoey and Skye both did so great in their classes this week!! And I'm so happy to be back!
> 
> Skye worked and focused so great. There are 8 dogs in her class and she acted like they weren't even there. Skill wise we didn't do anything new to her, worked on shaping jumps, did a straight tunnel, introduced a low A-frame. She just loved it all and worked with me so great. I was so proud of her.
> 
> Zoey was so excited to be back, she started crying as soon as we pulled up to the building. She was so happy to see everyone and be there, saying hi to people she didn't even know! Her class is all course work, so we kept the jumps at 8 and skipped the A-frame and weaves for now. She did so great! I instructed everyone to stop me if they saw anything in her movement that looked odd or off at all and everyone said she looked great. Instructor said he never saw any hesitation or missteps or anything. She had her vet appointment last night and the vet was really impressed with how she's doing. She said we could go ahead and keep slowly increasing jump height, start doing some limited weaves, and keep increasing the intensity of her conditioning work! So....I stopped at the post office on our way home from the vets and mailed entries for a CPE trial in 2 weeks! The great thing about CPE is that I can just enter her in the short games classes that are only like 10-12 obstacles or the classes where I choose our course, just to get the remaining Q's we need for Nationals. I'm so thrilled to finally be at what feels like a turning point in this whole ordeal!


That's so great to hear! I hope that Zoey continues to feel great and so happy to see that Skye is doing well!

Kairi will jump 20" and does in class now, but for her first trial we went with 16" because we -can- jump it in CPE. I feel like 20" is just plain too high for some dogs. Kairi is an Aussie, so her middle name is bounce.. but I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the bigger boned dogs.


----------



## kadylady

elrohwen said:


> Kadylady, that is so great!! Glad they both had wonderful classes and I'm so glad Zoey is feeling well again.





ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> That's so great to hear! I hope that Zoey continues to feel great and so happy to see that Skye is doing well!


Thanks!! Such a relief to be over the hump on this injury with Zoey. I've learned so much throughout the process and will do a lot of things differently from now on in terms of conditioning, warmup and cool down.

Zoey jumps 20" in competition. She measures 19.5". For CPE she could jump 16 but AKC she jumps 20 so I chose to jump her 20 in CPE as well. She actually jumps better at 20 than 16 for the time being.


----------



## sassafras

I, on the other hand, was a hot mess at class tonight. It's a good thing Squash is such a good guy.


----------



## CptJack

Agility lesson today was so. much. fun. She was just so, so crazy enthusiastic and fast. We did a jumpers course a couple of ways, worked on some stuff with long lead outs, I actually did some front crosses for the first time in about six months thanks to those long lead outs and some decent sends to an obstacle (and they worked REALLY well), but mostly. Kylie was just crazy fast and having the time of her life and bouncy and happy. 

I. Love. That.

Still working on independence in weaves (we had it, then we went to 12 poles all the time), still need some work with left switches (left to right is fine), and my timing was shot since she was so much faster than I'm used to resulting in a lot of spinning in circles and barking like an overhyped border collie, but.

I remembered the course, and Kylie was just so, so happy.


----------



## Laurelin

It's a beautiful day. Someone give me the motivation to pack up my agility stuff and take Hank to the park.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Yay Kylie!



Laurelin said:


> It's a beautiful day. Someone give me the motivation to pack up my agility stuff and take Hank to the park.


GO! Beautiful days don't always come around. Make the best of it.


----------



## LoMD13

Lola's supposed to jump 12 championship in USDAA and I think that's completely insane. She's 8 inches tall and not lightly built. So it's performance for us.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Yay Kylie!


Thanks. Apparently jumpers is going to be our crazy-fast wild ride course/game. Tunnelers is crazy fast/wild too, but lately jumpers is just where it's at with her. I'll probably enter a bunch of runs in January. This month's trial I already sent in the premium for and just signed up for 4 regular, and a TNG and Tunnelers. January I'm thinking Jumpers and Tunnelers + ...something. I'm still pretty limited on what I can stick her in and get really good runs with. 

...and my bank account. That's a limit too


----------



## Laurelin

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Yay Kylie!
> 
> 
> 
> GO! Beautiful days don't always come around. Make the best of it.


We ended up going to the lake and Hank swam and ran for about 3 hours.

Also fun. Totally not helping our agility but whatev.


----------



## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> We ended up going to the lake and Hank swam and ran for about 3 hours.
> 
> Also fun. Totally not helping our agility but whatev.


Cross training!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Yesterday I did several runs through the equipment at our Agility with Kris, then we had our Agility with the little dogs. I did some courses with both Remmy and Lucy and as I had Kiska with me, brought her in as she loves doing Agility in our ring. She is 9 years old in December and has not done any Agility for ages. She ran through everything with her tail wagging except the weaves which she never did learn. She did get two Q's back in 2012 at our only indoor trial around here but I quit with her on the outdoor trials as she would freeze up and not move if a dog barked so obviously was not enjoying herself. If we had more indoor trials I would have carried on with her.


----------



## Laurelin

Vintage 90s agility videos (Papillon Nationals)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP9DznOdri8&list=PLmRO5VRw1ewwC7iLCnsdxc2_q_J5Lbc6R&index=4

Kind of neat.


----------



## LoMD13

Decided to do a last-minute, day of entry, race home from work grab the dog and run through the door as our first walk-through was starting agility trial today. And it actually was probably our best trial yet! We Q'd 2 out of 3 times and got our novice standard and novice tunnelers titles. 











And what the heck, I'll even throw in our blooper " Let's go around the A-frame because NADAC contacts are hard" one.





All in all a really really fun day, can't wait to start playing in open next week!


----------



## CptJack

Congrats! Glad you guys had a good time. You look GREAT!


----------



## sassafras

Hooray Lo!!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Fabulous! Congratulations!


----------



## Finkie_Mom

YAY Lo! You guys look awesome!


----------



## LoMD13

Thanks guys! Hard to believe I was ever worried about the NADAC times! Our standard Q was 22 seconds under time and the fastest out of all height dogs. And our NQ was even faster, she was 10 seconds under time and that was WITH running all the way around the A-frame, doing it backwards, and then doing it the right way. All day long she was just easy as pie to amp up, and she bailed me out on a few major, major handling mistakes. Like accidentally putting in a rear-cross in tunnelers. I found myself on the wrong side of a tunnel and didn't have any choice but to go for the rear cross, I was cringing a little bit because she absolutely cannot do a rear-cross in class. I can't recall us ever being able to do one actually.


----------



## MrsBoats

So, O and I are going to play in a NADAC trial this weekend where they have barrels he must run around (he was 100% certain I wanted him on top of that lawn barrel!) Looks like I have some training to do before now and Saturday...

:becky::becky::becky:ound:


----------



## Laurelin

I am hoping that Hank is going through some sort of teenage boy jerkwadness that will pass or something. He actually had me in tears this evening. He's just being so difficult lately in general. Combative, not listening, brain falling out, seemingly being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. 

He just will NOT leave that one BC alone. He's fine with every other BC. Now it is a mutual issue and the BC is not an innocent in this but sheesh. They are wearing me out. We got a little too close on leash to each other and they both went for it. Pulled them apart with no issue but omg. I did not see who started it this time (the BC started the first crate fighting incident long ago and Hank has not forgiven him). They are both not the most easy going dogs. 

And in agility Hank is just... losing his freaking mind. He jumped off the peak of the A-frame to try to bite the ball out of my hand. That was the highlight today. He is just frantic lately. And being frantic is not helping how edgy he can be.

And I need to figure out a new exercise plan since Hank can't dog park or dog swimming hole anymore because of his decision to not back down or diffuse any kind of tension and I can't get to the fenced in field in time before it's dark.

I'm just BAHHHHH. Frustrated. Not sure where to take his training and how to get his brain back in thinking mode. In the past he has always, always been a nice level headed worker. Now he's basically in overdrive. 

Oh and since I've set rules to enforce him not being a jerk to Mia going outside, he's decided to be a jerk when they're coming back inside. So more rules now for coming in the door. 

I feel like we've had a regression lately, lol. 

Also he is spinning on all his rear crosses lately. So redo there too. 

I wanna give up.


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah it's really not as bad as it sounds but I needed to vent. Teenage Boydogs are dumb.


----------



## MrsBoats

Is Hank 18 months like it says in your sig?? 

I do hate to say it, but....you can't rush or train maturity in dogs. It will come on their own schedule. Ocean is just now turning into the agility dog I have been waiting for him to be this year....at the age of 3. Next year....at 4, that will be the year it all comes together with Ocean. I started trialing him at 15 months old. We had a couple of rough years of NQ's after NQ's after NQ's. 

Just keep at building experience and mileage with him. That's why I just kept trialing and training with O. All of that mileage does add up. Do the best you can...but keep in the back of your mind you have a young dog who needs to mentally grow up (and there's not anything you can do to speed that up.) Take your training day by day and you'll see small improvements over time.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Kris is almost three and she started getting wild running a course. What I did with her was just start doing two or three obstacles at a time so it did not give her time to get up a head of steam and she has gradually settled back down. I am hoping I can get her going well for the Spring trials but it is hard to train once the weather gets so cold up here.


----------



## sassafras

There are a couple of videos floating around FB right now - one is the lady directing her BC from the middle of the course without running with the dog, the other is a perfect and wicked fast handler/malinois team. 

And I'm watching these thinking that I can practically guarantee that if I ever actually trial, I will literally get lost on the course within 5 obstacles and have a polar bear roaring WHAT DO YOU WANT WOMAN?! at me.

lol


----------



## CptJack

Remembering the courses gets easier with time, it really does - that said, everyone gets lost sometimes. My last trial - that I q'ed in, I literally stopped mid-course, had no idea where I was or what I was doing and stared vacantly while Kylie screamed at me, before I managed to remember what the heck came next. 

We're... not going to talk about how lost I got at our last club practice. I don't know what it was about that course but everyone seemed to be having trouble with it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRO62KzLh8

These pair run at all our local trials and are a big part of the next nearest club. I've seen her run a lot. When she nails it, she nails it. ...She doesn't always nail it  At all. They're awesomely good, don't get me wrong, but MAN it is nice to see that even the fantastic people mess up. I think that might be mean, but it is so, so reassuring.


----------



## LoMD13

I only ever have trouble remembering NADAC courses. Going backwards on the exact course within minutes is so hard. And I never remember tunnelers because its all tunnels. I just walk it and go with muscle memory and hope for the best. It's worked for us so far, we're 3 for 3 in Q's for tunnelers. It's just nerve-wracking to go in there and not have a clear idea of where you're going.


----------



## CptJack

I can not remember a series of obstacles, I remember... patterns on the course? So Reg 2 being the reverse of Reg 1 in NADAC actually ended up being helpful (usually - not always) and they're mostly all really loopy and flow-y anyway. For me looking at most AKC courses seems more confusing from the outside. That said, I've only recently started doing Jumpers at all because I had a heck of a time remembering them. Tunnels at least have colors and shapes, you know? 

That said, I've done 4 Tunnelers courses and Qed on the second two - first two were where my paths/handling were just not as efficient and I missed the Q by 100ths of a second. Once I straightened out my handling I think we'll be okay even in open. Still afraid of Elite times, there.

ETA: Oops, forgot my actual point.

Mostly, I think you just... learn how to remember them? You pick up a sort of intuitive understanding of where to look for the course to go, get better at walking and remembering and so on with time. Every once in a while my brain is just like "NOPE" but it's still a heck of a lot better than it used to be, where I'd remember like the first five and last five obstacles and everything between was a total blank. Heck, there were a few times early on I'd get lost WALKING the course and just be like "Where the heck is 11?" and spinning in confused circles.


----------



## dogsule

When we trial (AKC) they have papers with the course laid out for you to study. Well I just cannot look at that to know the course or even to guess how I might run it. I need to actually see the course and then walk it. I walk it and after I think I have it, before I go off the floor I stand in one spot and do the course a time or two. So far (knock on wood) I haven't forgotten a course during a trial. Right now I like to watch the excellent/master courses being run because they are usually quite similar, with small changes to the Open courses an then I can get a feel of it before we actually walk the open course.

Oh, oh.....I am finally getting to an agility class tomorrow evening! I haven't had a class since August!! We have a trial coming up Nov 7th and I have to get to some classes. Ours in town here still are not happening, so frustrating! My daughter was not happy with me as the show Supernatural is on tomorrow night but since I can finally go again I just have to get a class in. We can watch Supernatural Thursday evening. I told my daughter she can watch it but she won't watch it without me. We have watched all but the first two shows together (it is on season 11 right now) and even though I am fine if she would watch without me, she won't. Sort of sweet! Anyway, am excited about getting a class in, it is an hour away but I love the trainer and the courses she sets up.


----------



## Laurelin

MrsBoats said:


> Is Hank 18 months like it says in your sig??
> 
> I do hate to say it, but....you can't rush or train maturity in dogs. It will come on their own schedule. Ocean is just now turning into the agility dog I have been waiting for him to be this year....at the age of 3. Next year....at 4, that will be the year it all comes together with Ocean. I started trialing him at 15 months old. We had a couple of rough years of NQ's after NQ's after NQ's.
> 
> Just keep at building experience and mileage with him. That's why I just kept trialing and training with O. All of that mileage does add up. Do the best you can...but keep in the back of your mind you have a young dog who needs to mentally grow up (and there's not anything you can do to speed that up.) Take your training day by day and you'll see small improvements over time.


Ugh yeah he's right around 1 1/2 years to 2 years. 

It's not so much *agility* but just general brain falling to the floor and deciding to be a punk with other dogs who have offended him. I mean it's not something I didn't anticipate given his probable breeds but it is annoying. I know it's not JUST him either, it's a general issue with male dogs that are really pushy and try to start fights with him. Mia is a snarky bitch but underneath it she's not a fighter like he is. It just weird because he's so dog friendly in general with 99% of dogs. Just wants to be buddies but cannot diffuse situations with other very over the top and forceful dogs. Probably a combo of boydog + breed + maturity. It's new territory for me.

I think we'll get there eventually it's just throwing a big wrench into our exercise routines. I'll have to figure out a new way to get him running time but he's not great off leash so that limits us., now that my back yard is cleared that at least opens up some of that space.

I also need to figure out how to keep his head. It is such a fine line between sorta flat and really ridiculously high for him. In my fenzi class it seems I have a tendency to ramp him up too high but it's a struggle for me. I want that speed and intensity he brings when he's ramped up but more and more I see him dipping into frantic and not thinking. Like launching off the peak of an a-frame at me to try to grab things out of my hands. 

For the time being we're trying to work on some relationship stuff and let him mature. I was going to do a private lesson to try to talk my trainer through some of the overdrive issues we're having. Try to figure out a gameplan for things we don't have time to go through in class but I had to cancel and she's off to nationals next week. So we will have to look at that when she comes back.

I think he's going to be great one day.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> When we trial (AKC) they have papers with the course laid out for you to study..


I really, really wish NADAC did course maps. REALLY REALLY REALLY A LOT.


----------



## LoMD13

Oh I don't think we'll ever get an elite Q's in tunnelers. Even when Lola's running full stride as fast as she can, she's still got a tiny Shih Tzu body and can only go so fast. 

Our instructor sometimes won't give us numbered courses and so we all had to learn how to figure out the maps.


----------



## CptJack

Man, I get courses in lessons that have neither numbers NOR maps. Maybe that's helped me. 

And yeah. Kylie's... not lightly built and has pretty short legs. I just can't see any way for her to make time in Elite Tunnelers (or any of the games). Maybe, given that she's sped up quite a bit, if we hit it perfect, but it'll be rare as heck. Regular, fine, but not those games.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin, I've been through a lot of similar stuff with Watson. The frantic brain falling out of ears behavior. The weirdness with certain other dogs (while still being over the top excited to meet 99% of dogs). It's a really tough age.


----------



## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> Laurelin, I've been through a lot of similar stuff with Watson. The frantic brain falling out of ears behavior. The weirdness with certain other dogs (while still being over the top excited to meet 99% of dogs). It's a really tough age.


I swear he might be my one and only boy dog ever.


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> I swear he might be my one and only boy dog ever.


If only you weren't also accurately describing Molly's issues. Though she's, admittedly, not so bad on the 'brain fell out leap!" thing.

I can not wait for this dog to be 3.


----------



## Laurelin

Don't tell me that!

I was wistfully thinking last night 'I shoulda just gotten the border collie, at least they're nice!'

And then I remember the other jerk dog in class is a BC. lol

One day they will all grow up.


----------



## elrohwen

One of mine is a jerk (mostly reformed). One of mine is so good. She shares half of his DNA.

I give up. It's all luck. lol


----------



## CptJack

"She's better than Thud was at that age" is my mantra. Not that Thud was dog reactive, per se, but he was kind of a hot mess.

They will all grow up. They will, they will, they will.

and Yes. I also give up: it's luck.


----------



## Laurelin

Mia was a brat at this age. Hank is a jerk. 

Mia is still a brat though. lol


----------



## Kyllobernese

I never realized how much I depended on the numbers until we took some classes without numbers. It helped me a lot in remembering the obstacles and not just depending on the numbers. When I first started, I always did Ring Crew if I could. It really helped to watch all the dogs run especially in Masters classes, then you realize even then, they are just dogs and handlers make mistakes no matter how long they have been doing it. It makes me realize what a great little dog Remmy is to get through to Masters even with my poor handling. Hoping I can give Lucy an easier time of it and Kris, too.


----------



## Laurelin

Laurelin said:


> Mia was a brat at this age. Hank is a jerk.
> 
> Mia is still a brat though. lol


Oh and Summer has always been perfect but then again I got her when she was almost 4. Perfect dog age.


----------



## CptJack

I like 3-4, a lot, too.

Thud at that age (ie: Molly's age now/about 16 months) was just mostly an overstimulated, not listening to you, mess. He's probably the most stable and level headed dog I've ever owned, now - he turns 3 next month.

Kylie was a fearful, avoidant, super stressed, dog at that age - wouldn't take treats, avoided people and if pushed would growl and flip on her back. Just really insecure. At this point she's basically perfect - and she's 3.5.

So, I'm side-eying Molly and pulling for at least IMPROVEMENT in some things by about 3.


----------



## Laurelin

3-7 is great. But then they sadly get old too fast too. 

I'm sure a lot of it too is that other peoples' dogs always look much better behaved to you than your own dogs. The little MAS in class is just perfect and well behaved and sweet and fast and fun but he's also 7 years old.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I really, really wish NADAC did course maps. REALLY REALLY REALLY A LOT.


course maps....that was the wording I was looking for. Sometimes I just draw a blank on what I am trying to say. lol


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> Don't tell me that!
> 
> I was wistfully thinking last night 'I shoulda just gotten the border collie, at least they're nice!'
> 
> And then I remember the other jerk dog in class is a BC. lol
> 
> One day they will all grow up.


After watching the border collies at agility I can positively say I do not ever want a border collie. Way too intense for me.


----------



## Laurelin

dogsule said:


> After watching the border collies at agility I can positively say I do not ever want a border collie. Way too intense for me.


I'm pretty sure my next dog will be a female border collie. It'll be a while, got my hands full now!

Hank is definitely intense but in a slightly different way than most BCs. I think for me BC style intensity/drive might fit me better than Hank's version but we'll just have to see what I think after I try it out. I'll definitely have one someday!

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Hank has his perks too!


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, I really love running Molly in agility things. I'm overdogged and not fast enough for her in a lot of ways, but when it comes together it's beautiful and even when it doesn't its fun. If I could knock out the dog reactivity, she'd be perfect. It's just... the dog reactivity keeps her from being able to do the agility, really, so.

For me having SUCCESS Kylie is about perfect for me, though.


----------



## LoMD13

The more herders I see at agility the less I want one haha. Lucy will never be able to do anything because of reactivity. I think i'll probably end up with a Lab.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> The more herders I see at agility the less I want one haha. Lucy will never be able to do anything because of reactivity. I think i'll probably end up with a Lab.


Right now I want a spaniel or a brit or maybe even a golden, though it's years and years out. MAYBE another RT or BT. I am kind of traumatized right now, to be honest. I've got a great ball, disc, dock-diving, agility dog who can't do any of it because of her temperament issues. I'd rather have less success than a dog who can't cope with the environment.

(Truthfully, I'll probably get another BC - but I'll get a 2 year old who isn't reactive to start with).


----------



## Laurelin

Honestly, with BCs I just like them. It's less about agility and more about generally liking the breed and finding them neat. 

I'll probably have a mishmash of herders. I think next I need a straight up herder vs herder/terrier. I think that will help with the specifics of why Hank isn't exactly the 100% perfect fit. He's just a touch independent and hard headed and edgy. 

Oh I'll probably have another one day but not at the same time!


----------



## MrsBoats

CptJack said:


> I like 3-4, a lot, too.
> 
> Thud at that age (ie: Molly's age now/about 16 months) was just mostly an overstimulated, not listening to you, mess. He's probably the most stable and level headed dog I've ever owned, now - he turns 3 next month.
> 
> Kylie was a fearful, avoidant, super stressed, dog at that age - wouldn't take treats, avoided people and if pushed would growl and flip on her back. Just really insecure. At this point she's basically perfect - and she's 3.5.
> 
> So, I'm side-eying Molly and pulling for at least IMPROVEMENT in some things by about 3.


This totally supports that saying in dog training - "You really don't have a dog until 3." In my experience, 3 years old is when the dog settles into itself and they have the mental maturity to handle the stress that working them causes. I started to trial Lars in agility until he was about 2 months shy of 3 and in obedience for his CD when he was a couple of months over 3. If I had started to trial him in either before 3....both sports would have been a hot mess. Lars really settled into himself between the ages of 4 and 5. 

I do know there are dogs out there who are out there who are consistent and awesome at younger ages. But you absolutely cannot compare your dogs to other dogs....including your own. You're going to do nothing but get frustrated over why isn't my dog like so and so's dog or my other dogs. Because they aren't those other dogs....they are who they are. You just have to embrace who they are....and all of who they are, good and bad. You have work and train the dog in front of you. Some days you may only be able to work on simple, foundation things because your young dog can't think their way out of a paper bag. The next day, you might be able to do a sequence. You need to be able to adjust your training plan to the dog that is in front of you at that moment....not adjust your dog to your training plan.

Last night, Ocean was a little crazy practicing at home because it was cooler outside. He was forgetting the concept of collecting if I'm holding my place on the course and not go blowing by me. We went back to something that we haven't had to revisit in months - Calling him into heel after one jump. He needed that exercise at that moment...and we did it a bunch of times until he got his head together. I didn't get mad, upset, or frustrated because my dog who is a P2, Open/Excellent agility dog was blowing by me and we needed to go back to basic agility foundation 101. I did recognize that at that moment we needed to go a bunch of steps back in order to go forward last night. Training dogs is fluid...it's not always onward and upwards every training session. Sometimes it needs to flow backwards or stay stagnant because the dog in front of you needs that.


----------



## CptJack

I love BCs. I love shelties (that one's possible too). As a dog to live with, Molly's perfect. No joke - the fit is solid and good. But there's this THING that I don't cope well with her and it shows up doing activities I normally love and wanted to do with her and that just makes me... sad. She LOVES the activities, she loves me, she is a beautiful dog to live and play with and I adore her beyond words. Could not be BETTER in daily life. 

And then.

God, I hate reactivity. Like there are just no words. 

(We're going to our last agility class/graduation tonight. She'll run the course while other dogs are separated and she'll have a blast and be happy and proud and then I'll go home and cry because I HATE REACTIVITY and it frustrates me and makes me so, so sad for her because she's got all this drive and desire to work and play and use her mind and body and the reactivity is in her way.)

So, you know. Agility for the rest of this month and then we... adjust the plan and move on and keep trying in different ways and supporting her and waiting and seeing.


----------



## Laurelin

The more sporting breeds I'm around the less I want one. I used to think maybe a retriever or spaniel but nope. I just cannot see myself with one. No idea why. They are nice dogs.

I also can't see myself with a sheltie again even though they're the smartest choice for me. Easier generally, great agility dogs, usually very dog friendly, cute, little... but I can't see it happening. I just don't want one.

Maybe I'll get a papillon again. 

I think it'll be BC, then something smaller and fluffy (MAS, pyrshep, maybe pap). Then go from there. If no pap in the house possibly a Belgian or cattle dog. Glutton for punishment, I guess.


----------



## CptJack

> You need to be able to adjust your training plan to the dog that is in front of you at that moment....not adjust your dog to your training plan.


Beautiful timing with that one.


----------



## CptJack

Sheltie. I keep forgetting them but I would own all the shelties forever. Well, not all of them but I really, really do like the ones I see. 

I don't know. I've never liked sporting breeds, but lately I'm just more and more drawn to happy, confident, friendly dogs. Weird as heck for me. Not sure it'll last the 5+ years until I'm ready to get one, but it's where I sit *now*.


----------



## Laurelin

With Hank there's not reactivity but there's some fearfulness (oh he had a fit about people near the gate outside the ring last night too! Fun fun). He stresses high and stresses easier than a lot of dogs, it seems. 

I think all dogs go through *something* to work through.

I will admit all my friends with BCs have dogs that have a lot more handler focus than Hank and that's appealing. I did like that about the papillons, they don't really blow you off.


----------



## sassafras

I find myself daydreaming of "easy" dogs from time to time. As weird as it sounds, I'm not sure I would be happy with one, though.


----------



## Laurelin

CptJack said:


> Sheltie. I keep forgetting them but I would own all the shelties forever. Well, not all of them but I really, really do like the ones I see.
> 
> I don't know. I've never liked sporting breeds, but lately I'm just more and more drawn to happy, confident, friendly dogs. Weird as heck for me. Not sure it'll last the 5+ years until I'm ready to get one, but it's where I sit *now*.


I could totally see you with a sheltie! 

I may end up with one someday again if I want something more familiar and easier. I'd just have to have another breed to go with it. But they are nice little dogs. Much softer and sweeter than some certain spotted dog I know....


----------



## MrsBoats

CptJack said:


> Beautiful timing with that one.


It sort of feels like a drop the mic quote.... ROFL 



> You need to be able to adjust your training plan to the dog that is in front of you at that moment....not adjust your dog to your training plan.


In my opinion, this skill makes one a great and masterful dog trainer...maybe this quote will morph in to a tasks blog post.


----------



## Laurelin

MrsBoats said:


> This totally supports that saying in dog training - "You really don't have a dog until 3." In my experience, 3 years old is when the dog settles into itself and they have the mental maturity to handle the stress that working them causes. I started to trial Lars in agility until he was about 2 months shy of 3 and in obedience for his CD when he was a couple of months over 3. If I had started to trial him in either before 3....both sports would have been a hot mess. Lars really settled into himself between the ages of 4 and 5.
> 
> I do know there are dogs out there who are out there who are consistent and awesome at younger ages. But you absolutely cannot compare your dogs to other dogs....including your own. You're going to do nothing but get frustrated over why isn't my dog like so and so's dog or my other dogs. Because they aren't those other dogs....they are who they are. You just have to embrace who they are....and all of who they are, good and bad. You have work and train the dog in front of you. Some days you may only be able to work on simple, foundation things because your young dog can't think their way out of a paper bag. The next day, you might be able to do a sequence. You need to be able to adjust your training plan to the dog that is in front of you at that moment....not adjust your dog to your training plan.
> 
> Last night, Ocean was a little crazy practicing at home because it was cooler outside. He was forgetting the concept of collecting if I'm holding my place on the course and not go blowing by me. We went back to something that we haven't had to revisit in months - Calling him into heel after one jump. He needed that exercise at that at that moment...and we did it a bunch of times until he got his head together. I didn't get mad, upset, or frustrated because my dog who is a P2, Open/Excellent agility dog was blowing by me and we needed to go back to basic agility foundation 101. I did recognize that at that moment we needed to go a bunch of steps back in order to go forward last night. Training dogs is fluid...it's not always onward and upwards every training session. Sometimes it needs to flow backwards or stay stagnant because the dog in front of you needs that.


Good words of wisdom.


----------



## Laurelin

sassafras said:


> I find myself daydreaming of "easy" dogs from time to time. As weird as it sounds, I'm not sure I would be happy with one, though.


I really seem to do best with dogs with a little bit of sharpness and edge and intensity. But sometimes those dogs are frustrating.

Summer.... Summer was perfect and easy. I wouldn't mind a dog like her but I think a mini poodle might be the closest and I don't like the coat.


----------



## MrsBoats

I'm going to be the dog training quote generator today...  LOL

Keep this in mind when wishing for that easy dog: 

"Easy dogs never make skillful handlers."


(now....I have to get back to work. LOL)


----------



## CptJack

I waffle back and forth on easy but ultimately live middle of the road, I think. At least based on what I consider difficult and easy.

Too easy and I seem to not... really bond with the dog? I mean, I do eventually but they just don't get as much focus and attention as more demanding dogs do, and it takes longer as a result. On the other hand, I don't like hard dogs (temperament wise) and reactivity issues, at least real ones, are something I could go my whole life without having again.

Quirky, obsessive, high energy, needing to do things and use their brains and be trained and work with, generally demanding, finding trouble to get into yappy, whatever, don't even register as 'hard'. I like those dogs. 

I just also need them not to lose their minds at other dogs and people or have a super hard temperament.


----------



## Laurelin

MrsBoats said:


> I'm going to be the dog training quote generator today...  LOL
> 
> Keep this in mind when wishing for that easy dog:
> 
> "Easy dogs never make skillful handlers."
> 
> 
> (now....I have to get back to work. LOL)


Haha but it is kind of nice to have a dog you can barely put any work into, just show up to class and then go out and have fun with.


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> I really seem to do best with dogs with a little bit of sharpness and edge and intensity. But sometimes those dogs are frustrating.
> 
> Summer.... Summer was perfect and easy. I wouldn't mind a dog like her but I think a mini poodle might be the closest and I don't like the coat.


I could definitely see myself with a mini poodle some day. There's one who competes here who is as fast and precise as most BC's, it's so fun to watch.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh yeah they can be super fast and fun! I just wish they came in other coat options!


----------



## sassafras

Yea I'm not sure if I really care if I'm ever a master handler. I'm not competitive, I may very well never trial, I just want to get out and go do fun things with my dog. Sometimes I do just think it would be nice to have an average dog that I can go put in an average performance in as an average handler, as long as it's fun and we're doin' stuff. Although honestly I would probably get bored at some point.


----------



## dogsule

I think I like the middle of the road dog, not too intense but not too easy. Sort of like Belle I guess or a Cocker, I just love spaniels. Also I would like to get our MACH someday but it is all in fun. If we both weren't having fun I would stop.


----------



## Laurelin

Working with Summer was very fun. She in her younger years was pretty hyper but small and soft and super sweet and happy. The only times she blew me off was because she was so darn happy and needed to go say hi to ring crew. Which is cute. She was/is always off in her own little Happy Summer World. The world would be a great place if all humans were like Summer. 

For me it's not that I like difficulty or anything. I dont need to win but I do want a dog with enough oomph and drive to really play. Handling Hank has made me realize handling a dog with some speed is FUN. Handling Summer is fun too but Hank is really really fun. So I'd like that fun in my future dogs if possible. With maybe a bit softer temperament and more handler focus. But I won't be a one breed person ever I don't think. So even though I like drive and speed I want it because to me it's more fun to train/handle. Not because I want to win or anything. I don't care about win or lose.


----------



## elrohwen

sassafras said:


> I find myself daydreaming of "easy" dogs from time to time. As weird as it sounds, I'm not sure I would be happy with one, though.


I'm totally happy with my easy dog. lol It's fun to focus on training "stuff" vs working through big issues that I don't know how to solve. Granted it's not teaching me how to work through big issues, but it's much less frustrating. 

ETA: And it's not like she's 100% easy to the point of being boring. I think a typical pet home might find her a bit over the top at times. But she's handler focused and doesn't have any environmental issues like Watson does. She's just kind of happy go lucky and wants to do stuff so much, and doesn't have any weird hang ups. Basically I feel like she mirrors back what I put into her. Where with Watson there are so many plateaus and road blocks and over arousal, etc and I put a lot in and sometimes see almost no improvement for months.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

After OWNING a Border Collie, they are the last breed I would choose to be my agility dog! Haha. Ember is far more frustrating because of her weird orbiting habits when she is too intense (with toys) OR she just has no focus at all. I've tried her out a few times and NOPE. My husband can deal with that! I'll take my slightly slower but waayyy more level headed Aussie. 

Speaking of which, first trial this weekend. Eep.


----------



## CptJack

You know, weirdly, I have never had a focus issue with Molly? She's been doing this stuff since she was 7 months old. She's blown me off or shown any desire to orbit ONCE, and if she weren't reactive even that wouldn't have been an issue. Though she did spend a while trying to bite me, which was obnoxious.

I just don't want the reactive crap again.

That said, she'd be hard as a first agility dog. Kylie's perfect for me that way. 

Good luck at the trial! You guys will be fine.


----------



## Laurelin

I like MAS but rarely come across Aussies I enjoy. I find large Aussies really overwhelming I think but I can take that kind of temperament better in smaller dogs. ACDs I go back an forth on. There's one in the class behind mine who is also very iffy with dogs. And it's rare for me to see ACDs with the drive I like here. But I see a few that have it but they're also the most 'hot' with other dogs too. 

The BC in my class is really independent but he's the most of any I know and the most confrontational with other dogs. BCs vary just so much here. I'm starting to figure out what I like. Nooooo to the flyball lines.


----------



## Laurelin

Oh no! Someone with another suspected cattle x rat said her dog turned into an ass at age 2 and got better at age 4. That's a long wait! Lol


----------



## CptJack

You know, seriously, the blog post MrsBoats did and this discussion unwound something in me that needed unwound. I'll keep working but basically planning on reassessing when she's 3. Which... is a long wait, but somehow feels better than beating my head against a brick wall between now and then.


----------



## MrsBoats

CptJack said:


> You know, seriously, the blog post MrsBoats did and this discussion unwound something in me that needed unwound. I'll keep working but basically planning on reassessing when she's 3. Which... is a long wait, but somehow feels better than beating my head against a brick wall between now and then.


And that's exactly how I handled Ocean most of last year and the earlier part of this year in agility...I kept going out there and working with O but waiting patiently for him to "arrive." Waiting with the idea in my head that he's a young dog who needs time to grow up and mature. And....he is arriving now as we're less than a month away from his 4th birthday.


----------



## MrsBoats

The more I think about this with the parallel of people - None of us would expect a 12 - 14 year old kid to go and work successfully on Wall Street, as an accountant, or a police or fireman. We don't expect 12 - 14 year old kids to be able to work college level calculus. Yes, there are some exceptional kids who could take on college level courses or actual jobs like scientists or law enforcement....but they are exceptional. Why do we expect that same level of maturity of our younger dogs??

I was joking with an agility friend that Ocean at 3 was like a 21 year old college guy. A 21 year old old college guy is a mix of great choices and not so great choices. LOL That in a nutshell was Ocean this past year. At 4, Ocean is more or less equivalent to a 28 year old guy and 28 year old men can be successful at holding down an actual job and making a whole bunch of great choice with maybe a not so great one thrown in for fun.


----------



## Laurelin

Haha too true. I describe Hank often as a frat boy. All party all the time but also very willing to jump into a brawl. 

He does a great job alternating being a brilliant and mature prodigy and being an unbelievably thick headed idiotic jerk.


----------



## CptJack

The truth of the matter is, if someone else came to me and described Molly's issues, my reaction would more or less be "...and?" 

She's got some issues. She is reactive. She has now officially blown me off _once_ to go yell in another dog's face. That doesn't make me happy. That's concerning. I can understand someone being stressed out about that, but I *freaked completely out*. I would not be overly sympathetic to someone else doing that, in the same circumstance. Why? I'm not exactly emotionally resilient but what on earth is going on in my head with this?

I honestly don't know. The nearest I can get is that I 'allowed' myself to have a BC because I do agility, and that if I can't do agility with her then I feel like I am failing at owning her. 

Either way : "Check back in at 3" seems to have taken the pressure off mentally and I've got some time to figure out what my damage is.


----------



## Laurelin

I don't really think of Hank as having issues, he's just wired very differently than the other dogs I have lived with. I'm trying not to jump to the 'welp he's DA' thoughts but....

It does kind of leave me wondering if you end up with a dog with 'edgier drive' for lack of a better word, it seems like you really start running the dog-dog risk more. Which is a bit annoying.

He was so easy when I first got him though. I knew it was a possibility but since he was so dog friendly compared to my past dogs I thought there was a chance to avoid it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

MrsBoats said:


> The more I think about this with the parallel of people - None of us would expect a 12 - 14 year old kid to go and work successfully on Wall Street, as an accountant, or a police or fireman. We don't expect 12 - 14 year old kids to be able to work college level calculus. Yes, there are some exceptional kids who could take on college level courses or actual jobs like scientists or law enforcement....but they are exceptional. Why do we expect that same level of maturity of our younger dogs??
> 
> I was joking with an agility friend that Ocean at 3 was like a 21 year old college guy. A 21 year old old college guy is a mix of great choices and not so great choices. LOL That in a nutshell was Ocean this past year. At 4, Ocean is more or less equivalent to a 28 year old guy and 28 year old men can be successful at holding down an actual job and making a whole bunch of great choice with maybe a not so great one thrown in for fun.


There's hope for even my Border Collie! 

Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have never spent as much time Obedience training a dog as I have with Kris. Part of it was she was so reactive with other dogs that if I ever wanted to do Agility with her and not get kicked out, she had to ignore other dogs. She will be three in December and I think I have finally reached that point. The two trials I had her in at the end of August/Sept. she was good and I entered her more to find out her reactions than actually thinking she would do anything with her limited training. She has always been better off lead than on which really helps as off lead she does ignore the other dogs and never leaves me to go to them. Now I have till spring to get some serious Agility training into her for next season's trials.


----------



## CptJack

Molly went to her last agility class for a while tonight. I skipped out on the runs that were just parts of the course/practices, but did the whole course and worked on a few things while the other dogs were behind chain link. She didn't do badly, especially given it's been 3-ish weeks since she'd seen some of that equipment and was all wound up and past ready to play.

Reactivity wise... I don't even know what to say. It's like her general reactivity is way, way down.

And her hate for that particular other dog is way, way up. 

No blowing me off or charging or anything this time, it's just so clear that as soon as Mandy goes blowing off her owner and zooming around, Molly is DONE. At this point it's like her trigger is 'dogs behaving badly'. 

Either way, it was a nice note to end on for a while.

Now it's just time to get busy with Kylie for the rest of the month  Demo Saturday with AKC JWW, and then trial next weekend.


----------



## elrohwen

We had the BEST agility lesson last night. I am so proud of all of the progress Watson has made in the last month or two. We started with the bang game on the teeter and he seemed to be having fun with it. Last week he did it, but afterwards was kind of freaked out and done and wanted to leave the arena. Last night, he was super happy and excited to do everything and never once acted worried or afraid the teeter would eat him. We did some contact obstacles (low A-frame and baby dog walk) to see where his confidence was at, and while he was tentative at first, he quickly picked it up and was running across. We did some one jump exercises off leash and he didn't try to leave me. He happily jumped 16", which he's almost never been comfortable with because he worries about finding the distance. And we did some following/shadow handling off leash while a golden was running around. When she left her owner he did leave me and run up to her, but I was able to get him back and refocus him quickly and it was a big improvement from previous classes. He was just so happy to be doing stuff! No worrying! It's so much fun to see real progress every week and to see him so happy.

Hazel is so cute. Everything is OMG EXCITING and she wants to run and do everything the fastest and the most.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

The number of times I've been told I need a Sheltie (one of my trainers competes with/breeds some AMAZING Shelties) is actually quite ridiculous at this point LOL. I like my breed, and if they like agility too, then cool. My next dog will not be a Finkie in the hopes that I can maybe get a bit of handler focus from the get go, but it will most likely still be a rare breed. Similar to Finkies, but a herding spitz so a bit different, too.

That being said... Both Kimma and Jari have been (I guess are?) reactive. Kimma's was fear, Jari's was frustration because he wanted to greet dogs. Now as Jari matures we've been through some male-male issues, as well, and there are some times when I feel like he's NEVER going to just run a course with me without worrying about dogs in the vicinity. I think that every once and a while I need a reminder like you posted MrsBoats - so thanks 

Jari turns 3 in February, but he's a slow maturing breed from slow maturing lines LOL. We'll keep working and wait until he's about 4 to attempt a trial


----------



## elrohwen

Finkie_Mom, you want a buhund, right? The woman we've been doing private lessons with has buhunds and they're super cute!


----------



## Laurelin

My first thought was Icelandic but I don't think I've ever met a Buhund. I really love the one Icelandic I know pretty well. She's a hoot (barky hoot). 

One of my friends is trying to convince me I need a vallhund. I have to say hers is pretty cool too.

That's about the extent of my herding spitz knowledge.


----------



## elrohwen

Her buhunds remind me of corgis. Partially because they kind of look like corgis, but there's something about their expression and personality that is very corgi. Except they don't bark much (that I can tell)


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Yep!!!! I'm going for the Buhund 

I'm super excited, and I've already told the breeder about my timeline! Still have plenty to accomplish with the Finkies before then, but I think a Bu would fit in well here. From my experience they are a bit less barky than the Finkies, but I really don't mind noise and talking so it's all good as far as I'm concerned.

I've seen a few Vallhunds around here at trials, but not consistently enough to ask their owners about them. The ones I've seen have been pretty dang speedy and look like fun!

elrohwen - I'm curious to know who you've been taking lessons with. There are a few I know of with Buhunds that are high up in agility (invited to Invitationals year after year and all that). PM me if you want to share that knowledge hahaha. If not it's all good


----------



## elrohwen

PMimg you


----------



## LoMD13

Looks like we'll have to step out of our comfort zone for the trial we are going to tomorrow. I usually do Regular 1,2 and tunnelers, but I have to work in the morning. So I think we're going to give hoopers and jumpers a shot. I'm more than a little bummed because it's the last NADAC trial and I really wanted to try open regular!


----------



## CptJack

We usually run the same things. This trial I've mostly got that for Sunday, and I got Regular 1 and 2 on Saturday, but I'm doing Touch 'n Go on Saturday. I don't know why but those courses KILL me. I think it's the length. The course doesn't change between levels, so they're all like 20 obstacles long and technically fairly hard. 

Jumpers I've done a few times in lessons and have fun with, though I can't handle the speed Kylie builds up. They're super fun, though!

We never have hoopers.


----------



## LoMD13

We have our novice title for USDAA jumpers, but then Lo decided doing jump after jump was really boring so I gave it a good long rest. We've never done hoopers before because i'm not completely convinced she sees them as obstacles, but we'll see. I was HOPING to do a Touch n go, because we need all the practice we can get on that black non-slatted A-Frame, but that's in the morning too. 

Excited to run in open Tunnelers though!


----------



## CptJack

Kylie has only recently started seeing hoops as obstacles and only after I bought a few and brought them hope to work handling. Those things are apparently just hard for dogs to recognize as a 'thing'.

I am HOPING we get our Novice Regular and Tunneler's next weekend, but I'm not holding my breath. Kylie's just not always consistent and neither am I.


----------



## elrohwen

Next weekend Hazel starts her first agility class! I'm super excited, though a little apprehensive too because she's so young. The description says that dogs 6 months and older are allowed, so I'm assuming the curriculum works for growing puppies and is mostly foundation stuff (hard to tell from the website). And there's lots of stuff you can do with the jump bar on the ground or on super low baby equipment. Mostly I want to get her working in a class off leash with other dogs around while I still know she can do it. Waiting until Watson was 1.5 years old was a disaster. If I can get that out of this class I'll be happy. I'd also like to work on rewarding with a toy because it's not a skill we learn in any other classes and she's the first dog I've ever owned who is really into toys.

I'm also trying a new place. The place we were going is an arena and gets really really cold in the winter. I hate the dirt flooring too since it gets everywhere. I heard they are losing that site on Jan 1st anyway (the whole farm sold to new owners) so they may not have classes for a while. This new place has indoor and outdoor agility areas, so it will be much more pleasant in the winter. I took a private lesson there with the advanced agility training and she was awesome, so hopefully the lower level trainers are just as good.


----------



## Laurelin

Well we had a GREAT fun run. It wasn't so great as in we did a flawless course or anything but the environment was very challenging and he was all over the place our first run but we ended on a good note by getting play in the ring together. Our second run he stayed with me and played and did some very nice agility. I'm just really pleased with him. He did not shut down in a strange place with scary ceiling fans and a crazy fleamarket in the same arena! 

Gonna call that a win. 

It was a UKC fun run and I'm working the trial tomorrow (not entered). UKC agility is really really really weird. I don't see that style agility working AT ALL for Hank (Summer would have been great) but I can use their ring for free since I'm a club member and I can go to fun runs and build up ring time with the boy and happy experiences. Plus work the obstacles we know.

Tomorrow will be fun, I'm just working and will try a few play sessions with Hank in free time. I got some great play from him today!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kairi's first trial! We did a Jackpot run and a Standard run, just to keep it short. She was AMPED UP. I mean she was in overdrive excitement mode. Thankfully we had no issues with trying to sniff the floor, but she had a hard time reading what I was asking her in the heat of the moment. 

In Jackpot she took a tunnel 4 times when I was asking her once and to come out for the dog walk. Thankfully in Jackpot you only waste time, not lose points. She Q'd. 

My husband took her on a nice walk to get some of her crazy out. She did much better in Standard, but still got so excited I had to keep telling her "eaaaassssy!". She tried to jump on me which kind of threw off my plan. I was blocking her from driving forward into a jump and instead she drove into me! Ooops. BUT we still got a Q. 2 for 2 is definitely not bad at all for a first time. 





Standard run, sorry about the quality.


----------



## LoMD13

Go Kairi!!! That is fantastic, she really looks great!

Me and Lola pup stepped out of our comfort zone today and did Chances, Hoopers, Tunnelers, and Jumpers. For a dog that's never done distance, never done more than 3 runs in a day, and gets bored easily when the courses consist of the same obstacle, that was really pushing it. She wasn't the speed demon like last week, but she was fast enough for 4 Q's, our most ever in a day, including our first in Open. Solid and consistent! 

This was our chances





and Hoopers (the bunny hopping at the last 4 hoops just killed me, that's how I know she was having a grand time for herself)


----------



## kadylady

Congrats to Kairi and Lola!! Great weekends!


----------



## MrsBoats

I got to spend Saturday with Lola and LoMD13!! It was awesome to see and visit with you as always!! You had a wonderful agility day!!!    

We played both Saturday and Sunday at the same NADAC trial with Lola was at. O and I haven't done NADAC in a year and a half....and it showed! LOL I'm friends with the judge who was there this weekend and he had asked if I was going to come and run. I figured "Oh, what the hell....why not."  NADAC is like wide open highway driving and AKC and USDAA are like downtown, big city driving. Ocean had a little bit too much fun being able to put his gas pedal to the metal. LOL We Q'ed 1 run (elite tunnelers) out of 10. Whoo hoo....ROFL

I didn't get video....but I got a butt load of pics. I'll share the top ones here:





































Friend/judge is laughing in the background because he heard me call O a turd when he flew off the a-frame. LOL


----------



## MrsBoats

O is just such a fun dog to share my agility journey with....he is the dog I have been waiting for with this sport. <3


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

1 Q is better than no Q! You still had fun!

Good job Ocean and Lola!


----------



## elrohwen

Great job Kairi, Lo, and Ocean!! Congrats to everyone!


----------



## LoMD13

Ocean was having a BLAST when I saw him on Saturday, I don't think i've ever seen him so carefree and silly. That dog is adorable.


----------



## elrohwen

Gah, I am so proud of Watson. He continues to make huge improvements every week at our private lessons. He needs a lot of hand holding to build his confidence with obstacles and jumps, but once he gets it, he totally gets it and is so happy to work. Over the past couple years I've realized he really does try so hard for me, but he needs things to go at his own pace. I still don't know if we will ever be ready to trial, but I will be thrilled if he is able to do a whole agility course happily in a group class. For the first time I think that is a definite possibility.


----------



## dogsule

So I was looking at the trials I have done this year so far and realized that I have a slight chance to get an Open title yet this year. Need one more leg in Standard and two in Jumpers. However there are only two more trials before the end of the year. I already sent in for the one on the 7th of Nov and I am thinking I may do two days instead of just one on the 21/22 of Nov. Gives me one more chance since I usually only do one day of trials and at that last trial there is no FAST so both days will be done quicker with only Std and Jumpers. 

We ran our first trial on Feb 14th of this year and so far we have done eleven days of trials entering both AKC Standard and JWW all those times. So far I have only done FAST four times and have one leg in Novice FAST. Just thought it would be cool to get our Novice and our Open titles in the same year. I have probably jinxed myself just thinking about it but it is a possibility. If I had better handling skills I know Belle could have gotten the open titles already. It is "usually" me that messes up but she has at times too. 

I looked back at the videos of our first trials and OMG are they funny to watch. Belle is sniffing everywhere and greeting everyone in the ring!! So glad we got past that!

Excited we are going to a class tonight, went last Wednesday too. Not many classes right now to get ready for the trials which isn't good.


----------



## elrohwen

dogsule said:


> So I was looking at the trials I have done this year so far and realized that I have a slight chance to get an Open title yet this year. Need one more leg in Standard and two in Jumpers. However there are only two more trials before the end of the year. I already sent in for the one on the 7th of Nov and I am thinking I may do two days instead of just one on the 21/22 of Nov. Gives me one more chance since I usually only do one day of trials and at that last trial there is no FAST so both days will be done quicker with only Std and Jumpers.
> 
> We ran our first trial on Feb 14th of this year and so far we have done eleven days of trials entering both AKC Standard and JWW all those times. So far I have only done FAST four times and have one leg in Novice FAST. Just thought it would be cool to get our Novice and our Open titles in the same year. I have probably jinxed myself just thinking about it but it is a possibility. If I had better handling skills I know Belle could have gotten the open titles already. It is "usually" me that messes up but she has at times too.
> 
> I looked back at the videos of our first trials and OMG are they funny to watch. Belle is sniffing everywhere and greeting everyone in the ring!! So glad we got past that!
> 
> Excited we are going to a class tonight, went last Wednesday too. Not many classes right now to get ready for the trials which isn't good.


That's awesome that you guys have come so far in less than a year! Good luck on getting the Open titles!


----------



## dogsule

Congrats to all on the great trials!! Love seeing pics of the dogs in action!!


----------



## CptJack

That is *fantastic* dogsrule! A huge amount of accomplishment for a year, for sure!


----------



## CptJack

I am now doing things with Kylie and weaves I never thought was possible. More independence, sending from distance from both sides (Chances is no longer so scary), me peeling off and moving away from her - just a lot more confidence and understanding.

Anyone want to make bets with me that come this weekend's trial she forgets what a weave is, again?


----------



## Laurelin

Have not been on the thread a while but congrats to everyone!

Also cynosport is this week (USDAA nationals)

live stream is here but it does have a fee https://www.cynosport.tv/register.php 

Hoping my trainer has a good time!


----------



## Laurelin

LOL on the run order this is actually listed as one dog's breed:

14": 3 competitors
14030 Ruca,* Hyena Dog*, Owner name

What?
http://cynosport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Cyno2015_RunningOrder.pdf

EDIT: I guess you can maybe label whatever you want?

22011 Bat, *Border Staffy*, 
22061 Salsa J, Labrador Retriever, 
22262 Rip, Border Collie, 
22099 Kelvin, Border Collie, 
22068 Ronin, Australian Shepherd, 
22079 Shake, Border Collie, 
22324 Stitch, Border Collie, 
22287 Fargo, Border Collie, 
22237 Ender, Border Collie, 
22260 Dash W, Border Collie, 
22321 Johnny B, Border Collie, 
22175 Zydeco, Border Collie, 
22112 Puck, *Cattle Collie*


----------



## Kyllobernese

In the AAC Agility any dog that is not a purebred is supposed to be entered as All Canadian. Makes it hard if you are doing the Gate entry as you have no idea what kind of dog you are looking for. I usually enter Remmy as Shih Tzu x Maltese, and sometimes they leave it, other times he comes up as All Canadian. At one trial my sister's dog (same breed) came up as All American for some strange reason. They do not have to be purebred and some of them are certainly not the breed they are listed as.


----------



## LoMD13

I just have Lola listed as Shih Tzu for simplicity sake!

No more NADAC until next year, which is a shame because we were on a roll. All in all for NADAC this year we had 4 trials, and got 10 Q's out of 13 runs. I think we've made huge leaps forward this year both in my handling skills and getting Lo motivated. Now we start USDAA! I definitely prefer USDAA style courses, but we haven't had a ton of success there yet.


----------



## CptJack

I'm pretty sure that Champs (our nationals) ask for more info on dog breed/mix than regular trials allow for. Generally they're all americans. I definitely know some of the dogs running aren't really what they're being run as/purebred, though, when it comes to trial entries and how they're listing, but I don't know the details.


----------



## dogsule

Kyllobernese said:


> In the AAC Agility any dog that is not a purebred is supposed to be entered as All Canadian. Makes it hard if you are doing the Gate entry as you have no idea what kind of dog you are looking for. I usually enter Remmy as Shih Tzu x Maltese, and sometimes they leave it, other times he comes up as All Canadian. At one trial my sister's dog (same breed) came up as All American for some strange reason. They do not have to be purebred and some of them are certainly not the breed they are listed as.


In the AKC anything not purebred is listed as All American Dog, that is what Belle is.


----------



## Laurelin

There's also a lot of dogs listed as All Americans and All Breed too. I've never seen that in a local trial so it must be a nationals thing. 

I keep trying to watch the livestream but it cuts out and right now they're showing snookers. Snookers is fun to run but not as fun to watch since there's no set course and half the dogs end up having to run out of the ring because of mistakes.

It's also a lot harder to know what is running and who is running compared to AKC nationals, which is frustrating. I think I will have to just luck into watching my trainer run because I have no earthly idea which rings they are showing and who is running. AKC nationals showed all rings, which is nice.

EDIT: loos like they switched back to standard so maybe they're just showing snookers between classes. It's just not the best to watch via livestream. It actually looks like we're on 22" now so maybe I can see my trainer run! Of course trying to figure out which handler/BC combo is her might be hard... considering it's like 98% BCs. :/ At least hers is brown, haha.


----------



## Laurelin

Welp darn. Now they are dropping the bars so I have nooooo idea where they are in the schedule.

ETA: Must be performance because lots of labs last class and now BCs running 16".


----------



## Laurelin

Hahahahahahahaha

Apparently it helps if you turn on the sound. Whoulda thunk that would be how they're calling handler names?

I'm dumb


----------



## CptJack

I am a much better dog trainer than agility handler. Also, I am just accepting that I am never going to consistently remember courses at practices. I just don't have the walk through time I need, and I feel guilty as anything about the time I need to reset bars. Kylie, however, did a 4 jump lead out, is rocking her contacts, hasn't missed a discrimination in I don't know how long, managed to nail her weaves first time coming out of a tunnel (was a set of 6) AND got through a set of 12, off side, with some speed on the same course. 

She is blowing me away lately, for a dog who's only been doing this stuff for a little while. I just need to remember my courses and actually hold my brain together well enough to put some strategy into handling. 

We'll see how well we hold it together this weekend, but I'm pretty proud of my little mutt right now.


----------



## Laurelin

So I did some nerdy analyzing of BDA's data set from one of the AKC nationals. Why not, right? 

Some interesting factoids.

BCs were really the only breed that was significantly faster than others. I was kind of surprised. Not that BCs were the fastest but that aussies, belgians, shelties, etc were really not that above average at all. Obviously there is individual variation and a couple outliers in the bottom quarter speed wise overall but the _average_ BC YPS was at the top quartile of most other breeds. Now of course I didn't break it down by size so I'm going to look at that tomorrow and see if shelties are statistically a lot above other 12" dogs (16" has a lot of BCs nowadays) and papillons 8" since they're considered the common breed there.

The 2nd fastest average YPS for a breed was manchester terriers (but I think the entry numbers for them was low (maybe even just one dog... but fast dog). 

All the All-Americans putting in top tier (ie: matching the fastest BCs) 'BC times' were borderstaffies. 

All Americans seemed to have the most evenly distributed variation in speed (makes sense considering they're any size and any breed!) 

Another oddity is that speed maxes out at 20" class and falls at 24". I guess it's because most BCs over 22" opt to enter 26" instead of 24"? 26" is far and away much faster than any other classes.

There were some interesting outliers. One was Masher, the papillon, who put in JWW YPS at near the top BCs. Crazy! He was wayyyyyy faster than any dog near his size. Another was a brussells griffon that was the only dog in its breed and was actually really fast so the breed was something like #6 fastest on average (it was the only dog). That must be an awesome little dog.

Border collies and malinois were the lowest scoring breeds when it came to average number of Qs over the year. That was odd. I think it's a combo of my next finding (speedier dogs Q less) and the fact that a lot of 'top competitors' (presumably with BCs) only trial enough to qualify for big events vs going for lots of titles. Malinois were slightly lower than BCs in average # of standard Qs, BCs were lowest in JWW Qs. The breed with the highest average number of Qs was... Chinese Crested! I think beagles were close to the top, which was surprising. 

There was a slight but definite negative correlation between YPS and number of Qs. Which I guessed slower dogs Qd more but it was neat to see. Of course this wasn't Q _rate _but number of Qs per year. I wish I had rate but it wasn't in the data!

(Sorry this is what happens when mathematicians get data. I might be the only person that finds this interesting haha)


----------



## kadylady

We are finally back to trialing!!! We did CPE today, 3 short games classes and Zoey totally rocked them all! She was so happy to be playing again! 3 for 3 in Q's today, which makes 9 to go for Nationals. We are playing again tomorrow, another 3 classes.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats Zoey!

It makes sense to me that faster = more likely to have errors. Handlers have to keep up and it is hard. Dogs that are wired are harder to control. Breathe wrong and those BC's are going the wrong way or knocking bars.


----------



## Laurelin

I had to giggle today watching grandprix semifinals. Masher once again put in a time that was comparable to the top 26" qualifying BCs. He was a full 3 seconds ahead of all the other 12" dogs!

I have had the pleasure of watching him run in person a few years back. He is one of the most dynamic dogs I've ever seen. 










What an incredible dog!


----------



## Laurelin

He's making me want another papillon.


----------



## CptJack

Today: 3 runs, 3 firsts, 3 Qs. Got our first T'n'G Q, finished our novice regular title the first run but did the second and Q'd there, too.

Tomorrow, Open Regular for the first time (this may be a horrible mistake) and Tunnelers. 

But: TITLE. 










I'll do real pictures after tomorrow.


----------



## LoMD13

Fantastic job Zoey and Kylie!!


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Fantastic job Zoey and Kylie!!


Thanks! Im pretty chuffed. Things didn't go *perfectly*, and I can still think of a half-dozen little things where either I did something wrong or we need to work on more - but I think this is the first time I've walked out of a trial day and NOT wanted to pick it apart. Even last trial where we did pretty well I walked out feeling like we only 'earned' one of those Qs because the other runs weren't entirely flawless.

I don't have this time. 

Maybe my brain is catching on a little bit 

ETA: Oh, and her YPS is still going up. Even with the fumbles here and there, her regular YPS run is now like. 3.6. That's not Masher fast, but it is DEFINITELY Fast *enough*.


----------



## Kyllobernese

She did really well. I wish we had a few more of the Games they have in other clubs like you do. AAC just has Jumpers, Snooker and Gamblers in their Games. They have to get two perfect Q's in each game to move up from Starters to Advanced for your Title but they can be in Advanced or even Masters in any one of them while waiting to get the balance of them. Remmy is in Masters in everything but Snooker and just cannot seem to get those last two Snooker Q's in Advanced to move up. (you need three to move from Advanced to Masters)


----------



## CptJack

I love the games in NADAC. I think even if I had more options of venue, and didn't generally like the style of courses, I would show up to play things like tunnelers and jumpers (NADAC jumpers courses are just jumps and a tunnel, tunnelers are all tunnels) because they are so much FUN both to run and for the dog. Touch 'n Go has grown on me now that I'm not sucking at it. Still pretty scared of Weavers and Chances, but we'll get there.

Our move ups are the same. There are some people running Elite in one set and Novice in others. I will LIKELY be pretty similar for at least a while though I'll probably get into at least Open in everything before moving into Elite in anything. You need 3 Qs to move up from Open to Novice and Novice to Elite. You never have to move up, you can always drop back, and you can get Outstanding or Superior awards in them (in Novice/Open/Elite) with more Qs. Elite's as far as it goes. To NATCH (our MACH) you need to have like 23 Elite Regular, and 13 in Jumpers and Chances (so you get your Elite title with 3, and then need another 20 in regular and 10 in both games to get it).


----------



## So Cavalier

I have signed up fluffy white dog, Baxter for his first trial (CPE) this weekend (Halloween). It should be interesting. He is like a box of chocolates....you never know what you will get, either he is spot on or totally nuts. It doesn't help that last week's class was cancelled as our trainer had to take her dog to the ER vet. He is signed up for three events each day. I also have Gemma signed up for three events each day so I will have both ends of the spectrum. Wish me luck, either we are totally awesome or we will be comic relief. Either way, I just hope he has fun and a good experience.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

Woohoo! Congrats to Zoey and Kylie!!!!


----------



## CptJack

Guys. She Q'ed and got first in *EVERY SINGLE RUN* she did this weekend, including Open Regular (twice!) - which she ran the first time ever today. She finished her Tunneler's Title. She got 2 T'n'G Qs.

Holy. Crap.

(Also? Her tunneler's runs are now approaching 5 YPS.)

Trial Results.


----------



## Laurelin

Congrats Kylie and Zoey!!! Thats awesome!

I think my game plan with Hank for the next approx 6 months is classes and a private here or there. And them focusing on barn hunt, coursing, and nosework for a bit. I prefer agility but I think he needs some time to grow up an there's enough events coming up in other things to keep me satisfied.


----------



## CptJack

Taking some pressure off of both of you and playing some other games for a bit sounds like a pretty solid plan to me. 

--

Randomly, I just realized that this is the first trial where someone complimented us - and I didn't shoot them down/evade/laugh it off. This is the first time someone's said 'you could do this ELITE course' (someone who has seen us running practices and was in class with us) - and I believed them. This is the first trial I've gone to, where I didn't try so hard to avoid getting caught up in success that I went to the other extreme and expected to fail. 

I've been working on my mental game in regard to this kind of stuff for a while and to be honest, I suspect that's paying off more than working on weaves with Kylie. Not that we were 100% perfect or I expect to have weekends this incredible all the time, but god I hope I can keep the mindset. Because this? This truly made me stop caring about succeeding. I *tried stuff* that was riskier than I normally would have, I was really willing to lay it on the line and see what happened instead of trying to play it safe because I was all set up to fail. Long lead outs, more distance, crosses that I didn't necessarily know I had time to make or would work. It didn't all work, but I played and I tried and Kylie played and tried and everything was fun. 

I want to keep this feeling FOREVER.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations! You are belly-hooked now!!! Glad you had such a fabulous weekend!


----------



## CptJack

trainingjunkie said:


> Congratulations! You are belly-hooked now!!! Glad you had such a fabulous weekend!


Yeah, I'm never getting out. I'm okay with that. 

And thank you!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats CptJack and Kylie!! So AWESOME!!!!

Day 2 didn't really happen for us. Got there, did one short run where she blew her dog walk contact and then I could tell she was starting to get sore so we called it quits. She seems fine today, 2 days was just too much. Happy with what we did on Friday. Just gotta keep conditioning her and keep her healthy through the end of the year and slowly pick up those last 9 legs. We'll try again in a couple weeks.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Guys. She Q'ed and got first in *EVERY SINGLE RUN* she did this weekend, including Open Regular (twice!) - which she ran the first time ever today. She finished her Tunneler's Title. She got 2 T'n'G Qs.
> 
> Holy. Crap.
> 
> (Also? Her tunneler's runs are now approaching 5 YPS.)
> 
> Trial Results.


Congrats Kylie and CptJack!!! It was quite an awesome weekend for you two!! 

Laurelin - Sounds like a good game plan for Hank. Once he grows up a little, he is gonna rock!

Signing up for November CPE trial at the same place, which will help me from getting overly anxious. I'm trying to ease my way into things and make sure Kairi is a little better trained before trialing more often. I'll only be doing a few here and there before really kicking it off in the summer. She has incredible drive during trials apparently, but kinda loses her focus on me. Young dog who is new to trial environment.. I'm not surprised. But we still have a ways to go. I see good things in our future though!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Great weekend for both of you. Makes all the work worthwhile and so much fun especially when they do better than you expect.


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel had her first ever group agility class on Saturday! Unfortunately it was so painful. It was held outside, though it was 50deg and cloudy (they do have an indoor training room, but they like to work outside as long as possible I guess). Not awful if we had been moving around, but we stood there for a full half hour while the instructor figured out paperwork (no idea why it took that long). Then she talked about basic agility stuff for another half an hour, using her dog as a demo. Good stuff for the true beginners in the class, but it was stuff I knew and I was getting cranky standing around. Hazel was trying hard to be good but she was so bored, so she kept eating random pieces of plastic off the ground, or trying to play with the dogs near us. Then the instructor asked if we could stay later to work on stuff, so we did another half hour of some easy drills. Nothing by itself was bad, and I really like the instructor, but standing around in the cold for 1.5 hours is not my idea of fun. 

And the drive there and back involved driving behind leaf peepers going way slower than the speed limit and never knowing where their turns were. That didn't help my mood! Hopefully next week is better! The class is an interesting mix of total beginners just trying it out, and people who seem to know mostly what they're doing with young dogs. We have an aussie, English shepherd, lagotto, and a PWD. 

Also really funny, turns out I'm FB friends with the girl who owns the English shepherd and neither of us realized it for most of the class. She's a friend of a friend and we would have met hiking if I ever went hiking with them when they invited me (my job stuff last year got in the way). Pretty funny that I was like "This girl and her dog look so familiar ... "


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> We are finally back to trialing!!! We did CPE today, 3 short games classes and Zoey totally rocked them all! She was so happy to be playing again! 3 for 3 in Q's today, which makes 9 to go for Nationals. We are playing again tomorrow, another 3 classes.


Awesome! Congrats!!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Today: 3 runs, 3 firsts, 3 Qs. Got our first T'n'G Q, finished our novice regular title the first run but did the second and Q'd there, too.
> 
> Tomorrow, Open Regular for the first time (this may be a horrible mistake) and Tunnelers.
> 
> But: TITLE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll do real pictures after tomorrow.


Awesome!! Congrats!!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Guys. She Q'ed and got first in *EVERY SINGLE RUN* she did this weekend, including Open Regular (twice!) - which she ran the first time ever today. She finished her Tunneler's Title. She got 2 T'n'G Qs.
> 
> Holy. Crap.
> 
> (Also? Her tunneler's runs are now approaching 5 YPS.)
> 
> Trial Results.


Super!! Love that shot although she looks unimpressed! LOL!....Like Yeah I knew I could do that. What a great weekend you had!!


----------



## dogsule

Well finally we will start agility classes again here in town. The equipment should be moved into the building tomorrow, hopefully. I cannot help with it though as I am busy. I am so glad it is finally getting done though! Back to agility Mondays! Yeah!

Last weeks Wednesday class (an hour from home with the awesome trainer) went so well. Belle did her best ever sit stay! I had her sit and stay by the first jump while I moved to the side/back of the second jump which she had to go around the backside to jump and then around and back the same way she was going initially and to the A frame. The trainer was talking to me on how to do this correctly and we discussed it for some time, her showing what would happen if we did this or that etc. Belle who is not that great at her sit stays, stayed right there, actually she ended up laying down but got up immediately when I was ready for her and did the jumps exactly as planned. I really never know what to expect out of Belle. We had two different courses set up at class and she was ok (just ok) at the first one but rocked the second one which was much harder with threadles and backsides. Oh and I went with two other people from our kennel club, one is the trainer we have in town. We talked to this trainer we go to on Wednesdays and she will come to our town for a 2 hour lesson for the three of us, just had to get our building ready before we can schedule a date/time!

I joined our towns kennel club this past summer since I have been helping with agility stuff anyway and we get a break on the cost of the classes if we are members. Have to be a member for a year before we get the discount but since I have enjoyed trialing so much I figured I had to join. Just found out I get a free monogrammed sweatshirt since Belle and I have a new title this year! Should get something else next year since most likely we will have another title next year as it runs from Oct-Oct. Thought that was pretty cool!


----------



## CptJack

Thanks, guys! 

DogsRule, I'm glad you're getting back into classes and getting free stuff! I have a couple of club T-shirts I bought that I actually really like. I don't know, call me a lemming but I like being part of a 'club' like this. 

Your post about sit-stays actually reminded me of something I learned at this week's trial, while playing with longer lead outs. The hazard of a short dog is I cannot see my dog when I sit-stay her in front of a tunnel and lead out very far. She disappears behind the thing. It works out okay since the only way is through, but it's really strange.


----------



## Sibe

NADAC run, with costumes! Denali was dressed as a sheep  I was Bo Peep.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102475661306883/


----------



## Kyllobernese

Finally getting a little more speed from Kris doing the weaves. Have to hit a happy medium though or she pops out so have to be careful not to push her too fast. Ran her over one of the courses we had set up for the little dogs and she did great. That was on Saturday, yesterday I did not notice they had moved the teeter in the way and Kris just loves the teeter so we ended up a little off course. I wish there were some trials around but none till next year now. We are going to start training the "little dogs" on Wednesdays as well as Saturdays until the weather gets too cold. My sister is finding her Golden Retriever a lot easier to train than the Rat Terrier. She is still young though so no weaves, and very low jumps. Can hardly wait till my new dog is old enough to start but that won't be till next spring but lots of groundwork to do over the winter.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson is a rockstar. Last night he did an actual sequence (with a couple jumps, couple tunnels, and an a-frame). Mostly a straight line but with an awful front cross (awful because I suck). It only took us 2 years, multiple trainers, and months of classes (some worthless, some good) to get to this point. He could kind of do this 1.5 years ago, but he was worried the whole time and at risk of running away. Last night no worries, no running off, just super happy spaniel who knew his job and did it. So proud of him, and so happy we finally got into a private lesson situation that allows him to be successful.


----------



## LoMD13

Hooray Watson! He's made so much progress these past few months!

Me and Lola did some run-throughs this past weekend. The first was atrociously bad-- complete with pokiness at the beginning, trying to take the teeter backwards (My fault! Note to self, pull all the way off the teeter before making an abrupt turn) and off courses galore. It probably was mostly due to the fact that I had only walked it once and had only a vague idea of what we were doing. I went back and repeated the same course and I think we did alright. We have a 2 day trial coming up this weekend, and we really really need to practice down on the table or else we'll never have a chance at Qing.


----------



## Laurelin

I think Lola is the cutest agility dog ever. She's getting speedy too!

Hank and I took a break and were back at it today after a few weeks. He did really really well despite being wound tight tonight. We did 3 different courses. Overall really some great stuff here and there- definitely weren't clean at ALL hahaha. His contacts rocked. He actually got a rear cross to a tunnel which usually makes him pop out. (He did pop out at one of the other ones). There was an attempt at 2o/2o on the table (hahaha). One point I accidentally sent him over 3 jumps. Cause I was barely off... His teeter rocked. He also ran with people he didn't know standing by the ring. And He wasn't AS jerky to the BC as usual. Still moderate jerkishness between them but he refocused pretty well. He did scream a bit more than I'd prefer but hey... work in progress.

And I have to brag on my classmates but holy heck that is a FUN and WILD group of dogs. They are all soooo fast. That probably explains some of the jerkish behavior- it's a bunch of teenage by dogs who are really intense and sharp. But man are they all fun to watch run.


----------



## dogsule

Had a semi-private lesson last night. Me and two others had our amazing trainer from an hour away come to town and work with us. Mostly worked on lap turns, speed and getting distance from the weaves for them to start correctly without us right next to them and not need to stay right next to the weaves. Belle did really well and it was a blast.

Trial this weekend, doing just Saturday AKC Standard, FAST and JWW.


----------



## elrohwen

Lo is the cutest thing ever.


----------



## dogsule

Oh, almost forgot.....look what I got! Our club bought new tunnels so they were getting rid of the old ones. This one has a small hole in it but other than that it is perfect for Belle. Used but way better than nothing and it was only $25!! It is 14', they have another I am toying with getting, a bit longer, just not sure if I need two or not. That one has one wire sticking out on the outside but nothing sharp, again used but only $25!

IMG_2781a by rzyg, on Flickr

Oh and I "think" I have someone to make me two sets of 6 weaves over the winter months!! Woohoo, they should be indoor/outdoor, so no more poles stuck in the ground.


----------



## elrohwen

That's awesome! I wish I could get cheap agility equipment!

Recently I bought a tunnel and weaves (waiting on the weaves to ship). Gets expensive!


----------



## elrohwen

Another break through for Watson last night in agility! We were working on a jump grid when another dog came in (with permission of the instructor). He was in the side ring, doing some wobble board and little obstacle stuff. Watson knew he came in, but couldn't see him, so there's this dog barking and banging stuff around nearby while Watson is trying to work. It was obviously super hard for him and took all of his brain power, but he didn't run away, he didn't shut down, and he kept working! So proud of him! This would not have been possible a month ago.

In worse news, he's back tracked on the teeter again after doing so so well for the last month. We've been working on going up it with a controlled decent either to the table or to the ground. He's totally fine with going up, but when he gets to the end he sits down and will not move off the teeter (I had to physically pull him off). The instructor isn't sure she believes this, but I'm pretty sure he's figured out that when he gets off it bangs back into the starting position, and he figures if he just sits on it then it can't bang. Not like it's even banging loudly, she's letting it go back at a controlled speed, but he is still freaked out by that sound. He's fine with it when he is the one pushing it down to make a noise, but he's not ok with it when it bangs on its own. Poor pup. The teeter is so hard for him.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> That's awesome! I wish I could get cheap agility equipment!
> 
> Recently I bought a tunnel and weaves (waiting on the weaves to ship). Gets expensive!


Well the weaves aren't going to be cheap. Set of 12 will be $200 but will be like the weaves we use in class/trials and I can then use them indoors or outdoors.


----------



## elrohwen

dogsule said:


> Well the weaves aren't going to be cheap. Set of 12 will be $200 but will be like the weaves we use in class/trials and I can then use them indoors or outdoors.


That's still not too bad. I just bought a set of 6 for almost $150.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> That's still not too bad. I just bought a set of 6 for almost $150.


I could have probably had my hubby make me a set from pvc very cheaply but would then be pvc along the bottom and I wanted it with the flat metal like normal weaves are, so nothing would be there for Belle to trip over. Will be nice to be able to bring them into the house in the winter and use them in the basement! I have enough room in the basement for the weaves, a tunnel and maybe a jump or two if I shove everything aside but it would be a tight little course on carpet.


----------



## elrohwen

dogsule said:


> I could have probably had my hubby make me a set from pvc very cheaply but would then be pvc along the bottom and I wanted it with the flat metal like normal weaves are, so nothing would be there for Belle to trip over. Will be nice to be able to bring them into the house in the winter and use them in the basement! I have enough room in the basement for the weaves, a tunnel and maybe a jump or two if I shove everything aside but it would be a tight little course on carpet.


I was in the exact same position! I thought about making them with PVC, but ultimately decided to just order real ones. I got 2x2s, so they will be easier to use in the basement and move around, but can connect into a full set of 6 as well. Then when it's nice out again they can move outside.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> Another break through for Watson last night in agility! We were working on a jump grid when another dog came in (with permission of the instructor). He was in the side ring, doing some wobble board and little obstacle stuff. Watson knew he came in, but couldn't see him, so there's this dog barking and banging stuff around nearby while Watson is trying to work. It was obviously super hard for him and took all of his brain power, but he didn't run away, he didn't shut down, and he kept working! So proud of him! This would not have been possible a month ago.
> 
> In worse news, he's back tracked on the teeter again after doing so so well for the last month. We've been working on going up it with a controlled decent either to the table or to the ground. He's totally fine with going up, but when he gets to the end he sits down and will not move off the teeter (I had to physically pull him off). The instructor isn't sure she believes this, but I'm pretty sure he's figured out that when he gets off it bangs back into the starting position, and he figures if he just sits on it then it can't bang. Not like it's even banging loudly, she's letting it go back at a controlled speed, but he is still freaked out by that sound. He's fine with it when he is the one pushing it down to make a noise, but he's not ok with it when it bangs on its own. Poor pup. The teeter is so hard for him.


That is too bad about the noise issue with the teeter going back down. So strange that some dogs are afraid of that noise. I have no clue where Belle's noise issues come from. She gets a bit freaked out at noises often but nothing terrible, that teeter took a long time to overcome though.


----------



## elrohwen

dogsule said:


> That is too bad about the noise issue with the teeter going back down. So strange that some dogs are afraid of that noise. I have no clue where Belle's noise issues come from. She gets a bit freaked out at noises often but nothing terrible, that teeter took a long time to overcome though.


He's similar, in that he gets a bit nervous about noises, but nothing like how he is with the teeter. Like, thunder storms make him slightly nervous sometimes, but most of the time he sleeps through it. And he might give me the side eye if I bang pots and pans around, but he's not panicked or running away. But the teeter really bothers him. In our previous classes we practiced it every week for about 4 weeks, and there were two advanced dogs (heavy ones too) who were doing it at full speed while the rest of us were just learning. He was ok with it for the first few classes but by the 4th class he was so freaked out that he wouldn't even approach the teeter on his turn, and I had to take him out of the building when the other dogs were using it. It's just built up in his head to this super scary awful thing. He can get over stuff if it happens once or twice, but when it's over and over again it gets worse and worse.

Funny, you'd think that spaniels wouldn't be that noise sensitive because they are hunting dogs, though it's well known with Welshies that they can be sensitive and usually need more time with introduction to gun shots.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> He's similar, in that he gets a bit nervous about noises, but nothing like how he is with the teeter. Like, thunder storms make him slightly nervous sometimes, but most of the time he sleeps through it. And he might give me the side eye if I bang pots and pans around, but he's not panicked or running away. But the teeter really bothers him. In our previous classes we practiced it every week for about 4 weeks, and there were two advanced dogs (heavy ones too) who were doing it at full speed while the rest of us were just learning. He was ok with it for the first few classes but by the 4th class he was so freaked out that he wouldn't even approach the teeter on his turn, and I had to take him out of the building when the other dogs were using it. It's just built up in his head to this super scary awful thing. He can get over stuff if it happens once or twice, but when it's over and over again it gets worse and worse.
> 
> Funny, you'd think that spaniels wouldn't be that noise sensitive because they are hunting dogs, though it's well known with Welshies that they can be sensitive and usually need more time with introduction to gun shots.


Belle's issues are really odd, one evening she watched fireworks with us at the window with no problems whatsoever. Our neighbor was setting them off and they were big ones. However if you open a container of pillsbury rolls she runs and hides under the bed. WTH?? She doesn't like the broom either which baffles me, when she was a puppy she barked at it, now she runs from it and I have no clue why. When she goes under the bed she isn't frantic at all, just wants to escape to her safe spot I guess. She gets scared easily at unknown noises though, the other two don't even acknowledge the noise and Belle is like "what the hell was that??"


----------



## CptJack

2016 schedule is out. 

Looks like we're going to have 7 trials within easy driving distance of us - 4 of them straight up at home - if the other clubs don't change their rhythm with it. Two of the home trials are even going to be indoors. I am *so excited* about this. Also think we're going to have a show 'n go before the trial in January, which will be nice. 

Just have to figure out what I'm entering for that trial. My impulse is 'everything', but I don't think Kylie can quite hack that. Maybe almost but not *quite*. OOMPH. DECISIONS.

ETA: She needs 1 more Q for her open regular title, and 1 more for her novice TnG title. She LOVES Tunnelers. If we're going to get her NATCH, we're going to have to get Chances and Jumpers in there. That's everything but weavers, and weavers is only 1 run on one day and at that point - 

Oomph. I just don't know. She's good for 4 runs in a day, 5 if one's tunnelers and I suspect from what I see at practice that jumpers will be much the same for her (WHEE FUN) so she could probably be okay. Might just enter it all and scratch if I see stress or flagging. 

BUT I AM EXCITED.


----------



## elrohwen

Enter all of the things!!

Assuming money isn't an issue (not sure what entries cost, but I'm assuming under $30 a run?) I would just enter more and scratch if you need to.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Enter all of the things!!
> 
> Assuming money isn't an issue (not sure what entries cost, but I'm assuming under $30 a run?) I would just enter more and scratch if you need to.


Yeah, entries aren't that expensive. 11.00/run from 1-9, and then for more than 10 drops down to 10.00/run. Even if I enter it all, it's a grand total of 120.00 so. I'm taking your enabling and running with it.


----------



## elrohwen

I've been doing that lately with shows. Entering multiple days and then not showing up one day (which is kind of annoying in confo because people see the initial numbers and hope all of those people show up). 

But you know Kylie and you know when she's done and can't do any more that day, so I think it will be fine. If you were someone who I thought would run them all just because you'd entered I wouldn't recommend signing up for so many, but you know better.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, and I mean really? 

The ones I'm likely to scratch are the more stressful ones for her (chances and weavers) and at *worst* based on what I know she can do and where her head is I've made a reasonable donation to my own agility club. I'm fine with that. More than fine with that.

She's also CRAZY clear when she's done, which I appreciate


----------



## dogsule

Our trials are usually $18 a run, I wouldn't want to sign up and then scratch. Can't afford to waste money. We only have three runs max per day though so never too much for us. I usually only do one day anyway though. Getting excited for Saturday......


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Our trials are usually $18 a run, I wouldn't want to sign up and then scratch. Can't afford to waste money. We only have three runs max per day though so never too much for us. I usually only do one day anyway though. Getting excited for Saturday......


The places we trial range from 11-15.00 per run, before price breaks for more than 10 runs in a family, or for junior handlers. Day of entry ranges from 15.00-18.00 (I think - might be 20.00). NADAC just has a ton of games. 6 runs/day for Saturday and Sunday and there are often 2-4 runs on the Friday before. We typically do about 4 a day. Sometimes 3, sometimes 5. We've never done all 6, and we've never been able to do the Friday. We've also never done two in the same month, but that should change this coming year for at least one trial. 

Total aside:

How many trials do you people who are doing trials do in a given year?


----------



## kadylady

Ideally, we are doing on average 2 trials a month, without any medical breaks! 

Zoey and Skye have both been doing fantastic in their classes. Zoey has had great vet visits the last couple weeks, so we are entered in CPE 11/13 and 11/15, entered 3 classes Friday and 2 classes Sunday, so going to rest her Saturday and see how she handles it. Then we are also entered in the clubs big Thanksgiving weekend AKC show, only JWW each day...trying to get that last Open JWW Q in the bag. Then 2 more CPE trials in December to *hopefully* wrap up the last of our Nationals Q's.

Skye is just blowing me away, she takes everything in stride and just nails it. She's been perfect in class. Her last class is next week Tuesday and then she is getting spayed on Wednesday! **eeeeeeck** She'll have the rest of November off from agility for recovery and then December will be weaves month! She's 15 months on Dec 29th...I'm hoping to get her in some CPE level 1/2 trials in January and then AKC debut at our end of February trial! Ah!! So excited to be doing big girl agility stuffs with her!!!


----------



## LoMD13

I like to do one a month. We're playing USDAA this weekend at home turf- NADAC has spoiled me with their lack of tables. I would LOVE if they adopted AKC rules for table.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie has apparently forgotten how to do serps. I have no idea why or where it went, but man it seems to be gone. Guess I know what we're working on for the next little bit. .

ETA: Never mind. The problem was me - had obstacles too close together!


----------



## LoMD13

We had a really frustrating weekend full of ups and downs! We had a GREAT pairs run yesterday and a really good standard run today which gave us our final Q for our P1 Standard title. We also bombed snooker because I didn't catch Lo's head in time before she decided to cut right through the weave poles to get to a jump. Ooops. We did better with focus in Gamblers, but couldn't quite get the gamble with the tempting A-frame RIGHT there. Overall, I rediscovered that USDAA is just really, really tough. Fun, but so so hard. I was so glad we ended on a really high note!


----------



## dogsule

LoMD13 said:


> We had a really frustrating weekend full of ups and downs! We had a GREAT pairs run yesterday and a really good standard run today which gave us our final Q for our P1 Standard title. We also bombed snooker because I didn't catch Lo's head in time before she decided to cut right through the weave poles to get to a jump. Ooops. We did better with focus in Gamblers, but couldn't quite get the gamble with the tempting A-frame RIGHT there. Overall, I rediscovered that USDAA is just really, really tough. Fun, but so so hard. I was so glad we ended on a really high note!


Congrats on the new title! I have only done AKC so I don't know what anything else is like.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Total aside:
> 
> How many trials do you people who are doing trials do in a given year?


Since I only have been doing trials as the closest place I do 1-2 trials a month. However there were no trials there in Oct and will be none in Dec either. I have done 11 trials this year but only one of them did I do two days, others just one day.


----------



## dogsule

So we had a trial on Sat (well it was Fri-Sun but I only did Sat). We got there and Belle was just really sniffy at everything and everyone, very happy though. Even though the day before she got into some Iced Coffee which gave her the diarrhea, ugh! 

I have come to the conclusion that I have a real problem, which I cannot believe I didn't realize before. Well I did but not the enormity of it. I have no clue at the trials if she is going to play or not. She does not like me to make her sit if she doesn't want to once we get in the ring. I can always tell right away by the look she gives me when I tell her to sit and stay if it will be a good run or not. Sometimes she just totally blows me off! It has actually gotten worse for the last two trials. I work on it at home and she sits and releases fine and even in class too but we get in the ring at a trial and bam, not listening. So I have to work on this. I think she would be fine if I didn't have her sit/stay and lead out at all, if I just started right with her though but not sure. 

However that being said we did get a NEW TITLE on Saturday! She Q'd in Open Standard so earned her Open Title so now we will be in Excellent! Yikes, I have to get my start problem fixed. For the standard run I had her sit, and I knew she didn't want to, you can see in the video her hesitation to start when I called her. I don't have a release word really, I just say Ok, come. I just cannot get myself to practice or do another word, lots of people say break but it just sounds odd to me. Anyway you can see once she started she wasn't focused on me at all but on the teeter which she has a love/hate relationship with. Ugh, so she blew me off after the first jump to go to the teeter. She came back nicely though and once she realized she did get to go on the teeter she was all happy and ready to run. The rest of the course was pretty easy for us. 






We also did Novice Fast which again we Q'd in. The way they had the course set up I didn't need to lead out at all so planned on just starting with her but there was a dang purple string on the floor which she just had to sniff first, she didn't cross the barrier to start though so it was no big deal but again, not paying attention to me but what she wanted to do. Here is the video, the course was actually very similar to the Open Std course, the send was in the back before the A frame, just jump to tunnel. I highly doubt we will ever get to Excellent in FAST, is too hard from what I have seen but we should get through Novice and perhaps Open FAST. This was our second leg in this class, only the fourth time we tried it. 






I won't even post the video of Open Jumpers! OMG, she totally blew me off at the start. I was just going to do a running start but when I got out there I forgot and made her sit and lead out, nope, took a bit before she started and then she totally wasn't paying attention, took the last jump as the fifth obstacle when it should have been a tunnel, no clue why she even went to the jump, it shouldn't have been an issue. I kept going anyway as I wanted her to run the course and she totally blew the weaves and then another jump. No clue what she was doing. I only have one leg in Open jumpers so far. 

So we have some work to do, that is for sure. I must say lots of the dogs in Open Std screwed up, not sure what was up with that. I felt like we should have been in Novice. LOL!

20151107_133733 by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## elrohwen

Congrats on the new title!!



dogsule said:


> I have come to the conclusion that I have a real problem, which I cannot believe I didn't realize before. Well I did but not the enormity of it. I have no clue at the trials if she is going to play or not. She does not like me to make her sit if she doesn't want to once we get in the ring. I can always tell right away by the look she gives me when I tell her to sit and stay if it will be a good run or not. Sometimes she just totally blows me off! It has actually gotten worse for the last two trials. I work on it at home and she sits and releases fine and even in class too but we get in the ring at a trial and bam, not listening. So I have to work on this. I think she would be fine if I didn't have her sit/stay and lead out at all, if I just started right with her though but not sure.


Do you think the sit/stay issues are just a symptom of general engagement? Or that she just doesn't like the sit/stay? I would try doing a running start like you mentioned and see. But I know what Watson, if he's having problems doing something like a sit/stay, his probably is stress in general and has nothing specifically to do with the sit/stay.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie used to be like that with start line stays. She'd stress out, be slow coming off the startline, check out and just generally not be as into it as I knew she could be, and sometimes just plain wouldn't leave the start at ALL. It didn't happen all the time, but it happened enough. 

Bottom line? It was stress for her. That surprised me a little because initially I thought she just didn't get the idea of GOING FAST when released, but no. Stress and a lack of confidence. She didn't have the confidence she needed to handle the separation - especially not in a trial environment. We did running starts and/or slingshot starts for quite a while. As stress dropped and confidence built we no longer needed to do that. At this point I can do a 20-30-50 foot lead out and GAIN speed from doing so, but the confidence and connection had to be there for it to work.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson has always been good at holding a stay like that. We have mostly practiced for obedience recalls, but it's a similar thing (sit, stay, walk away, stop and look back). I was prepared to say he basically never broke, unless there was a large distraction (another dog recalling next to him). But when we got to private agility lessons, he broke quite often with almost zero distractions. It was entirely about stress, and not his understanding of the exercise. I could also tell right away when he was going to blow me off just from his expression. As we've built his confidence in lessons, he is back to not breaking.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie was a little different because she wouldn't break. She just wouldn't break when I TOLD HER TO, either. I really really spent a while going 'do you just not understand the release means GO' (as opposed to 'you can go if you want to but basically you just don't have to keep staying')? But she'd seriously just... sit there, or come off slow and kind of trot. Or check out and do other things. Or wander away sniffing. 

Every last bit of it was stress. Once she got into the game and gained confidence with the setting it stopped happening. I don't get breaks but I do get enthusiastic releases and happiness.

I also always just release with 'okay'

So my inclination here is basically the same as yours. It's not the word or understanding, probably. MIGHT be not having a really clear idea of what her line is if you're giving it to her from ahead but I'm really inclined to go with stress issues or confidence issues.


----------



## LoMD13

dogsule said:


> Congrats on the new title! I have only done AKC so I don't know what anything else is like.


Thanks! We are going to register for AKC and do some trials next year.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson's reaction was usually standing up or walking towards me. Occasionally he got up and ran off, but usually when he breaks he gets up and either stands there looking at me, or starts walking towards me with an unsure look on his face. Holding a position is hard when you're stressed, and having your mom walk away is also hard, so it seems like he decided his best option to "do the right thing" was to come to me. As long as he doesn't run off, I am always very happy and kind when I go to replace him and that seems to put him at ease a bit and he does better the second time. I would not be surprised at all if this behavior showed up again in a trial, if we ever get the point of trialing.


----------



## LoMD13

We lost a start line too because of stress itchies. I just do a running start now even in class and I haven't bothered to try and bring it back.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Thanks! We are going to register for AKC and do some trials next year.


I'm pondering doing some JWW runs next year. I'm still unsure, but. It's just jumps and weaves and it would be some experience and a bit more opportunity near home. I know the courses are way different but I've actually done wraps and backsides and so on with Kylie, so it's not as likely to get her in trouble as regular agility (I fear for her on the teeter because I'm pretty sure she'd just see the dog walk on ramp and die and we don't have regular access for practice).


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> I'm pondering doing some JWW runs next year. I'm still unsure, but. It's just jumps and weaves and it would be some experience and a bit more opportunity near home.


Go for it! Can't hurt. The only reason I haven't yet is because AKC is so much more expensive. But there a lot of trials around and we can do just a couple runs a day, and probably have a lot more success than in USDAA.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> Congrats on the new title!!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think the sit/stay issues are just a symptom of general engagement? Or that she just doesn't like the sit/stay? I would try doing a running start like you mentioned and see. But I know what Watson, if he's having problems doing something like a sit/stay, his probably is stress in general and has nothing specifically to do with the sit/stay.


I think she doesn't like the sit/stay. She understands what I want her to do but I know she has never liked it and when I make her do it, it is like fine then I won't play with you. I know dogs don't think like that but it sure seems like it. Even my daughter said that. I really think I will try the running start and see if that makes a difference. There are a couple people that use it at trials.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Kylie used to be like that with start line stays. She'd stress out, be slow coming off the startline, check out and just generally not be as into it as I knew she could be, and sometimes just plain wouldn't leave the start at ALL. It didn't happen all the time, but it happened enough.
> 
> Bottom line? It was stress for her. That surprised me a little because initially I thought she just didn't get the idea of GOING FAST when released, but no. Stress and a lack of confidence. She didn't have the confidence she needed to handle the separation - especially not in a trial environment. We did running starts and/or slingshot starts for quite a while. As stress dropped and confidence built we no longer needed to do that. At this point I can do a 20-30-50 foot lead out and GAIN speed from doing so, but the confidence and connection had to be there for it to work.


"the confidence needed to handle the separation", you mean the separation from you with you leaving here there? That really makes total sense! That would be Belle to a T, I do think now that you say that, that is probably what Belle is feeling when I leave here there during a trial and it stresses her so she cannot figure out what to do. However you would think if she is stressed that I left her that she would be running to me when I call her but maybe it doesn't work that way?


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> "the confidence needed to handle the separation", you mean the separation from you with you leaving here there? That really makes total sense! That would be Belle to a T, I do think now that you say that, that is probably what Belle is feeling when I leave here there during a trial and it stresses her so she cannot figure out what to do. However you would think if she is stressed that I left her that she would be running to me when I call her but maybe it doesn't work that way?


Yep, the separation of being left there while I walked away from here was really, really hard for her to handle. I think it was probably scary for her and it was certainly stressful. I also kind of think having to perform agility away from me (ie: with me 'out there' somewhere further away from the obstacles was harder for her than when I was running with her and staying close. If it wasn't an agility setting and I crouched down and called I think she would have come to me but I wasn't just asking for a come and she knew it. I was asking her to be left at the start line and then release to AGILITY. She liked agility, but she needed me closer to be okay doing it for a while.

Not that she didn't like agility - she did - but the trial, the distance from me, was just too much in combination and she went flat and stressy and just didn't want to be there. Running with her for a while and letting her gain confidence really helped a ton.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Kylie was a little different because she wouldn't break. She just wouldn't break when I TOLD HER TO, either. I really really spent a while going 'do you just not understand the release means GO' (as opposed to 'you can go if you want to but basically you just don't have to keep staying')? But she'd seriously just... sit there, or come off slow and kind of trot. Or check out and do other things. Or wander away sniffing.
> 
> Every last bit of it was stress. Once she got into the game and gained confidence with the setting it stopped happening. I don't get breaks but I do get enthusiastic releases and happiness.
> 
> I also always just release with 'okay'
> 
> So my inclination here is basically the same as yours. It's not the word or understanding, probably. MIGHT be not having a really clear idea of what her line is if you're giving it to her from ahead but I'm really inclined to go with stress issues or confidence issues.


That is exactly what Belle is doing, just staying there like she doesn't understand that "ok, come" means she can start. So do you leave Kylie there now or do you do a running start yet? I will be trying the running start at the next trial, it sure can't hurt! Oops, I see you lead out now.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Yep, the separation of being left there while I walked away from here was really, really hard for her to handle. I think it was probably scary for her and it was certainly stressful. I also kind of think having to perform agility away from me (ie: with me 'out there' somewhere further away from the obstacles was harder for her than when I was running with her and staying close. If it wasn't an agility setting and I crouched down and called I think she would have come to me but I wasn't just asking for a come and she knew it. I was asking her to be left at the start line and then release to AGILITY. She liked agility, but she needed me closer to be okay doing it for a while.
> 
> Not that she didn't like agility - she did - but the trial, the distance from me, was just too much in combination and she went flat and stressy and just didn't want to be there. Running with her for a while and letting her gain confidence really helped a ton.


Thank you. I am so glad I asked this. I know I was stressed about her start line stay during the trial so that probably made Belle stress even more. Hopefully doing a running start makes her gain confidence cause you can see in the videos during the run at any pause like the table, teeter, her tail is totally wagging and she is happy! She loves agility but I just couldn't understand that start line thing.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> That is exactly what Belle is doing, just staying there like she doesn't understand that "ok, come" means she can start. So do you leave Kylie there now or do you do a running start yet? I will be trying the running start at the next trial, it sure can't hurt!


Kylie can now be left for some crazy, crazy long lead outs. I don't know when exactly it changed, but it did. I did running or slingshot starts (where you start at an angle and 'send' the dog but don't walk away from them) for a couple of trials while building up longer lead-outs and some distance stuff in situations she was comfortable in. That and just getting into the groove made a huge, huge difference for her. 

It also REALLY sped up her times. Like just... crazy amounts. Not just coming off the start line but as she got better at independent obstacle performance and just more sure of how the game worked and confident in trials her YPS actually came close to doubling (like from under 3 to close to 5.) Not everywhere, we still have bobbles, but you could sure see the change.

ETA: And thanks! I'm glad I could help!


----------



## kadylady

I had similar start line issues with Zoey, where she would stay just fine but stress and have a super slow super stressed out release and start. It would take her a couple obstacles to gain confidence and speed. It's something we are still working on, but when possible I do running starts with her. She's not super fast most of the time and even if she is she handles well from behind. I agree with CptJack that it sounds like more of a stress issue than a stay issue. She's still relatively new to trialing and still building confidence in the ring. I would stick with running starts for awhile if possible and help her build confidence in the start of the run. Congrats on the new title!!! That's awesome!!


----------



## dogsule

LoMD13 said:


> Thanks! We are going to register for AKC and do some trials next year.


You will have to let me know how it compares. I don't know anything else.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> I had similar start line issues with Zoey, where she would stay just fine but stress and have a super slow super stressed out release and start. It would take her a couple obstacles to gain confidence and speed. It's something we are still working on, but when possible I do running starts with her. She's not super fast most of the time and even if she is she handles well from behind. I agree with CptJack that it sounds like more of a stress issue than a stay issue. She's still relatively new to trialing and still building confidence in the ring. I would stick with running starts for awhile if possible and help her build confidence in the start of the run. Congrats on the new title!!! That's awesome!!


Thank you! I am so glad I have this forum to ask questions from. Both of my trainers have mentioned, when I ask about her start/stays in class, that I am too boring (they say it nicer) and that Belle doesn't understand that the release is something fun. I know that wasn't/isn't it. The separation issue totally makes sense to me. I know Belle and I can tell when she is stressing with just the look in her eyes, doesn't have to lay her ears back or anything. Somehow during the trials though I have been mistaking the look as a I don't want to sit so I am mad at you and won't move now. Makes much more sense that it is a I don't want to sit because I don't want you to leave me here look!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Kylie can now be left for some crazy, crazy long lead outs. I don't know when exactly it changed, but it did. I did running or slingshot starts (where you start at an angle and 'send' the dog but don't walk away from them) for a couple of trials while building up longer lead-outs and some distance stuff in situations she was comfortable in. That and just getting into the groove made a huge, huge difference for her.
> 
> It also REALLY sped up her times. Like just... crazy amounts. Not just coming off the start line but as she got better at independent obstacle performance and just more sure of how the game worked and confident in trials her YPS actually came close to doubling (like from under 3 to close to 5.) Not everywhere, we still have bobbles, but you could sure see the change.
> 
> ETA: And thanks! I'm glad I could help!


You guys have helped me so much! I am feeling so much better. I was really bummed this weekend (even though we got that new title) cause I wasn't sure what to do. My in town trainer said we need to work on releases after she saw her JWW but now I am thinking I will just go ahead and start classes with the running start, see how it goes and try that in the trial. Only problem is the running start may be a walking start at first until we get the hang of it. I will probably only have two classes before the next trial which is on the 21/22. I did enter two days this one though but only 2 runs per day, no FAST this time. At least it should be a shorter day.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I'm pondering doing some JWW runs next year. I'm still unsure, but. It's just jumps and weaves and it would be some experience and a bit more opportunity near home. I know the courses are way different but I've actually done wraps and backsides and so on with Kylie, so it's not as likely to get her in trouble as regular agility (I fear for her on the teeter because I'm pretty sure she'd just see the dog walk on ramp and die and we don't have regular access for practice).


Most of our JWW have a tunnel too but once there were just jumps and the weaves. I actually think it is easier than the Standard AKC course but for some reason we are ahead on std instead of Jumpers. I think cause STD is always first at the trial for Novice and Open so the stress level is lower then vs later in the day.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Most of our JWW have a tunnel too but once there were just jumps and the weaves. I actually think it is easier than the Standard AKC course but for some reason we are ahead on std instead of Jumpers. I think cause STD is always first at the trial for Novice and Open so the stress level is lower then vs later in the day.


Yeah, our Jumpers runs have tunnels too, but no weaves so it should be okay there. 

Honestly, we did (and are doing) best with regular/standard in NADAC too. We got out of novice and 2/3 of the way out of open in one trial (granted we went into that one with 2 Regular Qs). In some ways it's harder, but the times in the games there are tighter and the dog goes faster too and frankly I have a danged hard time keeping up with Kylie when she REALLY gets going. I'm scared of jumpers right now just because while I can get through them it feels so, so out of control. My timing just isn't good enough yet to handle her when she starts approaching 4 YPS, much less beyond.


----------



## MrsBoats

CptJack said:


> I'm pondering doing some JWW runs next year. I'm still unsure, but. It's just jumps and weaves and it would be some experience and a bit more opportunity near home. I know the courses are way different but I've actually done wraps and backsides and so on with Kylie, so it's not as likely to get her in trouble as regular agility (I fear for her on the teeter because I'm pretty sure she'd just see the dog walk on ramp and die and we don't have regular access for practice).


USDAA is where you will backsides and wraps in the lower level courses. AKC...the only place you'll see a wrap or a backside of a jump is Excellent/Masters and they show up pretty infrequently. Around here...people still will sort of freak out at a backside in an Excellent/Masters class. 

AKC agility is really pretty straightforward....they have pinwheels, 180's, 270's, serpentines (no threadles), jump boxes, straight lines of jumps. They might have some obstacle discrimination...but it's nothing too awful. Truthfully....if you're into "fancy handling" you have to really look to find places to use it in AKC courses. LOL Granted, I use reverse spins like front crosses because they work....but I look for places to pull them off because they work so well for O.


----------



## MrsBoats

We were at the same USDAA trial that LoMD and Lola were this weekend!! It's always great to get my Lola fix!! My in-laws came to watch and got to meet LoMD and Lola....my Mother in Law wants a Lola for herself. LOL

Anyway...Saturday was a good day of agility...didn't Q in P2 Standard or P2 Gamblers. They were really, really nice runs and I was very happy with those. But we did Q for the first time in a USDAA Tournament - Round 1 of Steeplechase with a first place for the 20" dogs. That was the highlight of the weekend!! I wished I got video of that run. 










Sunday started out rough because I was a little too tired to be driving the O-machine the way I should. I finally woke up after lunch time. No Q's in any of our classes which is fine because as LoMD said...those courses were fun but pretty damn tough. This P2 Standard run was the run of the day. No Q....but it was seriously sweet and FAST!! 






Our Jumpers run on Sunday had a start line flub....and I was a bad, bad, bad agility handler for allowing Ocean to run after he couldn't stay. I can usually reset him once he gets up...I set him far enough back that he will stand up and take a step or two before I cross the plane of the first obstacle. He will 95% of the time stay there after the reset and I can lead out to where I need to be. Not Sunday....he was all "I WANT TO RUN AGILITIES SOOOOOOO BAD!!!!! CANNOT STAY......MUST GO NOW!!!!!" His start line stay issue is a little bit different than what seems to be what's up with you guys. His issue is more impulse control and too amped to run to wait. LOL He did hold his start line the other 4 runs Sunday.


----------



## CptJack

MrsBoats said:


> USDAA is where you will backsides and wraps in the lower level courses. AKC...the only place you'll see a wrap or a backside of a jump is Excellent/Masters and they show up pretty infrequently. Around here...people still will sort of freak out at a backside in an Excellent/Masters class.
> 
> AKC agility is really pretty straightforward....they have pinwheels, 180's, 270's, serpentines (no threadles), jump boxes, straight lines of jumps. They might have some obstacle discrimination...but it's nothing too awful. Truthfully....if you're into "fancy handling" you have to really look to find places to use it in AKC courses. LOL Granted, I use reverse spins like front crosses because they work....but I look for places to pull them off because they work so well for O.


Yeah, I went looking for some Novice AKC JWW courses and they don't look bad at all. Certainly they don't seem any 'worse' than NADAC novice jumpers, except the presence of weaves. I'm pretty sure I'd be okay there, and it'd be nice to add a trial or two to the agenda for the year. She's already registered and everything (though I need to dig out that information). We'll see I guess, but I really appreciate the reassurance/confirmation.


----------



## LoMD13

Always fun hanging out and playing agilities with you and O! You guys really are an incredible team and so supportive. And Ocean is a gigantic love. Such a good hearted dude. 

Looking back at our results, I don't think our lows were as low as they seemed while I was running. Even our worst saturday standard run, complete with weaves popping and tire-missing was still 5 seconds under time, so she must have been quicker than I realized.

So, I must be a glutton for punishment because I signed up for another USDAA for thanksgiving weekend!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats MrsBoats. Your Rotts continue to blow me away! O seriously looks amazing out there. 

There is very little USDAA that I can see around here, but I really have no desire anyway. I do like backsides a lot though! Kairi won 2 fake games of "Full House" in class. The amount of fun she has with this stuff makes me so happy. Have I mentioned how spoiled I am with this dog?


----------



## Laurelin

I love USDAA. To me it is the most fun.

In the excitement of coming home to an extra dog in the house I forgot about Hank's class recap. Boy did good but we have a lot of work still to do. I just keep praying he grows a brain. He sometimes seems to just want to go fast without thinking and you can run faster leaping off things and going under the tire. lol


----------



## Kyllobernese

Couldn't get away to the trial last weekend but my sister took her Rat Terrier. She is already in advanced classes as got her Starters title in the games already in just the few trials she had been in this year, her first year competing. She and the other dog from our group, both Q'd their first run and they were the only two Q's in any of the six Advanced classes on the weekend. Time was a factor in some classes plus the smaller dogs do not get much of a break in running time so can miss out by just seconds. Her Rat Terrier is doing really well, the only thing stopping her from competing in Standard is the weaves but finally after months and months of training, she seems to be finally getting some idea of what she is supposed to be doing.

Looking forward to next year when I can start seriously competing with both Kris and Lucy, and may give Remmy some more chances to get that allusive last two legs on his Advanced Snooker for his Masters Game Title.


----------



## CptJack

Holy crap, I just managed to send Kylie through a serp from about 15 feet and then out another 5-6 to WEAVE (poles behind the serp) . She wasn't *fast*, but she got the job done! Weaving from 20 feet away from me? Guys? I might just be able to do chances.


----------



## elrohwen

Last night Watson worked agility while another dog worked independently in the ring!! I'm so proud of him!

He did run off to visit twice, and the other dog even ran over to visit us (I think he might be more into the meatballs I carry than Watson). But each time I got him back, and more often than not he made really good decisions. When the other dogs came in for the next class (on the other side of a fence, but one he could have wiggled through) he ran towards them, stopped, thought about it, and came back to me to continue working. 

He's still being weird about the teeter and sitting on the end of it, but I was able to break him out of it by directing towards a jump while the instructor controlled the bang as it it reset, so it was overall positive. He really enjoyed everything else he did and the A-frame seems to be a big favorite.

I think I'm going to try him off leash in Rally tonight and see if the off leash skills will transfer over.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Holy crap, I just managed to send Kylie through a serp from about 15 feet and then out another 5-6 to WEAVE (poles behind the serp) . She wasn't *fast*, but she got the job done! Weaving from 20 feet away from me? Guys? I might just be able to do chances.


That is awesome!! We had class (in town) on Monday and I did the running start, well it wasn't actually running like I see others do but I didn't have her sit and we just started with an ok and she did well. It seems so foreign to me to not have her sit/stay and try to lead out. I can't get to my Wed class (out of town) this week but I am hoping to next week and try that kind of start there as that is where the trials are. I am nervous already for Nov 21, the first class at the trail is Excellent Standard and me with a new start. Eeek!


----------



## CptJack

Went back to agility practice tonight.

Good news: Her weaves were GORGEOUS, even in sequences and hitting entries with serious speed and keeping them, off sides, exiting them, all kinds of cool stuff. We also did pretty well with the elite jumpers course. We had an extra jump in there but I remembered the course and it was mostly really good.

Bad news: She hadn't seen contact equipment in weeks and as a result her discriminations were crap. Because WHEE CONTACT EQUIPMENT OMG!


----------



## Laurelin

Hank is finally getting rear crosses in the yard. Eventually need to work them with tunnels.

Also not really agility related but Summer took a 16" jump in the yard today out of the blue. Little Dog you are getting too old to pull stunts like that!


----------



## kadylady

Zoey went 5 for 5 this weekend!! 3 Friday, 2 Sunday. Only 4 Q's away from qualifying for CPE Nationals!!!!! She was running so awesome this weekend! Fast and smooth and moving great! So happy! We have AKC in 2 weeks, only running JWW each day (3 days) then trying to finish the last CPE Q's the following weekend.

Here's our Jumpers run from today. I walked it with all blinds and then she was running faster than I expected and I hesitated in those 2 spots where I did rears instead. I wish I had committed to the blinds because I totally had room to pull them off and it would have been a perfect run I think. Oh well, still a great run and she handled my hesitations well. Good good girlie!


----------



## CptJack

Go, Zoey, go!

Beautiful run, and I'll be rooting for her to get those last 4!


----------



## sassafras

Toast officially signed up for foundations. We've started a few things at home but I'm not as organized by myself as in a class. 

We're gonna be off to the races soon for reals.


----------



## elrohwen

Go Zoey! That was awesome!

Toast is going to kill it in agility.


----------



## LoMD13

Go Zoey! Fantastic weekend!!


----------



## LoMD13

Laurelin said:


> Hank is finally getting rear crosses in the yard. Eventually need to work them with tunnels.
> 
> Also not really agility related but Summer took a 16" jump in the yard today out of the blue. Little Dog you are getting too old to pull stunts like that!


Yikes, Summer! We forgot a 20 inch jump at class last week but luckily Lo hesitated d just long enough that I could call her off it. Don't do that tiny dogs.


----------



## KayaScout

Hi All! Newbie to agility here. Actually, we haven't even started yet haha. BUT Kaya is an 8 month old Border Collie mix with endless energy and brains like no other. So no doubt she will need/want some agility in her life. And I can be like "hey, look how awesome my dog is, guys!" With that being said, how should I start? Due to a tight budget, we probably wont be able to put her in class until maybe January. In New England, its snowy and cold... a lot. So my plan was to get a small course for use inside until we are ready for a class in a few month? Bad idea? Good idea? What do you think??


----------



## CptJack

You do not start on obstacles. Do not start her on obstacles. You can look up some flat work training - teaching her to move away from you and around a bucket or cone from both directions, driving toward a target to get food on command (like a lid with a bit of cheese), how to put two feet on a bowl, type stuff but she is too young, the most important parts of agility aren't performing the obstacles it's the flatwork and frankly it's easy to teach bad habits in relation to obstacles that create bigger issues or just be dangerous - particularly when you don't know the ins and outs of the game yourself (so you teach her something that would get her hurt, be harder on her body, or just get her disqualified). 

When you do start, expect to spend at least a couple of months before you see an obstacle that isn't a tunnel or maybe a table or the END of a piece of contact equipment. 

There are reasons for that and they're good ones.

Just sign her up for the classes.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Zoey went 5 for 5 this weekend!! 3 Friday, 2 Sunday. Only 4 Q's away from qualifying for CPE Nationals!!!!! She was running so awesome this weekend! Fast and smooth and moving great! So happy! We have AKC in 2 weeks, only running JWW each day (3 days) then trying to finish the last CPE Q's the following weekend.
> 
> Here's our Jumpers run from today. I walked it with all blinds and then she was running faster than I expected and I hesitated in those 2 spots where I did rears instead. I wish I had committed to the blinds because I totally had room to pull them off and it would have been a perfect run I think. Oh well, still a great run and she handled my hesitations well. Good good girlie!


Great job!! Liked watching your start which is how I will be doing it from now on. Talking to one of my agility trainers I might be able to lead out with just a stay vs a sit/stay but not sure. Belle doesn't get the I am not happy look in her eyes until I say sit to her so she may be ok with a standing stay. However first I am trying with just starting like you did, no sit, no stay.


----------



## KayaScout

Thanks for the advice! We have been working on a table top pause. But that is about it. I think 2 paws in a bowl is a great idea for Kaya! or moving away from me on command, that seems like a basic foundation we can work on. We can't enroll her in a class yet.


----------



## elrohwen

KayaScout said:


> Hi All! Newbie to agility here. Actually, we haven't even started yet haha. BUT Kaya is an 8 month old Border Collie mix with endless energy and brains like no other. So no doubt she will need/want some agility in her life. And I can be like "hey, look how awesome my dog is, guys!" With that being said, how should I start? Due to a tight budget, we probably wont be able to put her in class until maybe January. In New England, its snowy and cold... a lot. So my plan was to get a small course for use inside until we are ready for a class in a few month? Bad idea? Good idea? What do you think??


Don't start on obstacles outside of a class. They need to be taught a certain way for safety and to be sure you do them correctly long term. Not something you want to work on by yourself. She is also young so obstacle training should be limited and kept very low. 

There are plenty of things you can do with a puppy though. You can work on going around things, getting comfortable with weird wobbly surfaces, get her comfortable working on your left and your right side, work with her off leash, work on focus around distractions, etc.


----------



## KayaScout

That is very understandable, her bones and everything are still growing. We do work on some of those things. She goes around a chair for me and walks well on my left. We work off leash inside. However, I can't send her to any classes for a few months, tight budget. What would you recommend for a wobbly surface? And what are some other things we can work on at home to prep her for some classes in the future? I have introduced a makeshift pause table, but that's about it.


----------



## elrohwen

I built myself a wobble board and a tippy board.

The tippy board was easy - 8ft piece of 12"x1", biggest PVC pipe I could find (maybe 4"?). Screw the PVC pipe on as a fulcrum and it's like a mini teeter. Good to get them used to tipping and you can also work on 2o2o contacts.

The wobble board was harder. I got plywood and cut into a 3ft circle, then I found a little wooden ball to use as the fulcrum at Hobby Lobby. Later I found a 3ft circular table top at Home Depot - already cut and sanded and everything, just need a fulcrum, and that would have been much easier. Then you just need something on top to make it less slippery.

Balance discs are a good buy and not super expensive: http://www.amazon.com/Yes4All-13-St...8&qid=1447701522&sr=1-2&keywords=balance+disc

ETA: What about toys? Does she like to play with toys? Work on building toy drive, tugging, and getting good quick returns. Being able to reward with a toy is very useful in agility but first you need a dog who will tug in distracting environments and who will actually bring it back.


----------



## CptJack

Also definitely don't neglect to get her used to working on your right too and make sure she circles that chair from both directions based on which arm you have out.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Also definitely don't neglect to get her used to working on your right too and make sure she circles that chair from both directions based on which arm you have out.


Yep. I would even name both sides. Most of agility is body language, but when setting a dog up or calling them to a particular side it's helpful to have different cues. I use "heel" and "side".


----------



## CptJack

Man, I taught those to Molly and Kylie but in agility I swear to all that is holy the odds of me getting the right words out are like one in two trillion. Probably better for people who do things like walk and chew gum at the same time but I'm apparently not that person


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Man, I taught those to Molly and Kylie but in agility I swear to all that is holy the odds of me getting the right words out are like one in two trillion. Probably better for people who do things like walk and chew gum at the same time but I'm apparently not that person


I can't imagine using that many verbal cues while running a course, but it's very helpful when we're setting up to do something. And when you're doing 3 jump sequences you do a lot of setting up. Heel is down on pure verbal, side still needs some context, but it gets Watson in the right position quickly without me having to lure him or physically put him there.

ETA: The private trainer we're working with likes verbals. She tends to use a lot on course for directionals when the dog is further away. Not that she uses them all the time, but she has a few key ones that she has very well trained for her dogs.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, yeah. The set up for my dogs is 'middle' which is between my legs - easier to put them at the angle I want. Well, Molly. Kylie's is basically just a front but serves the same purpose for me. 

I DO use verbals - out and here are my directionals though and seem to work better with my brain because it doesn't require me remember my left from my right. (They're subjective/relative to where I am)


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Oh, yeah. The set up for my dogs is 'middle' which is between my legs - easier to put them at the angle I want. Well, Molly. Kylie's is basically just a front but serves the same purpose for me.


I've thought about training Hazel to set up in between my legs. Watson already has a very nice swing into heel position and I can point him any way I want using that, so it's just a matter of tightening it up on the right. But I worked hard to get him in that position for other reasons and he had that down before he ever started agility. For Hazel it might be easier to just start in the middle since she doesn't have that kind of precision yet.


----------



## trainingjunkie

KayaScout said:


> That is very understandable, her bones and everything are still growing. We do work on some of those things. She goes around a chair for me and walks well on my left. We work off leash inside. However, I can't send her to any classes for a few months, tight budget. What would you recommend for a wobbly surface? And what are some other things we can work on at home to prep her for some classes in the future? I have introduced a makeshift pause table, but that's about it.


I'm certain that everyone is sick of me suggesting this, but if you want to work on a nice agility foundation without a class using stuff around your house, this is the ultimate book on how to get that done: Agility Right from the Start by Bertilssen and Vegh. You can get it for about $30 anywhere.

http://www.amazon.com/Agility-Right...pebp=1447704829454&perid=1PJGTMBFF9GDC6EW57K8


----------



## KayaScout

This is all great, thanks so much! I am a new doggie owner so she and I and my boyfriend are all learning together so I'm sure it will take a while to master. 

As for toys, she lovesssssss toys! The issue is, she always wants to tug, with anything. She will fetch and bring the toy back to you but WILL NOT drop it. If she does, shes and inch away from so she is ready to grab it before you do. Luckily she is very food motivated.


----------



## MrsBoats

Hey Kaya, welcome to agility! I see you're in NH... you have some great people & places to learn agility in your neck of the woods. Where in NH are you? Lo Baker is amazing and I believe she's teaching in Manchester and there's American K9 Country in Amherst. They are also amazing for both agility and obedience. NH is sort of an agility mecca with all of the agility trials they have between AKC & USDAA. Good luck with your puppy!


----------



## Kyllobernese

On the dropping when she retrieves something, what I did with Kris was to get two balls. When she came back with the first ball, I would throw the second and she would drop the first to go after it. It only took a few times and she would come running back, drop it and wait for the second one. Before that she would drop the ball and grab it back up before I could pick it up. We bumped heads a few times.


----------



## KayaScout

Wow thanks! I am in Andover, which is the middle of no where. It is near New London and not too far from Vermont. The daycare that I take Kaya to right outside of Concord has a great agility program, well it seems like it anyway. They are multiple time champions so hopefully their classes are easy to get the hang of. Thanks for the other names, I want to look into all of my options! Kaya is 8 months (today!) and she is still veryyyyyy full of energy and hasn't gone through any obedience school or anything yet. Although she is very smart and loves to please....mostly haha. Any tips or tricks for a puppy with a lot of energy and not much under her belt?? Thanks


----------



## KayaScout

We have tried the two toy trick. She mostly just takes the first toy with her to get the second one haha! She does drop it for treats but then she doesn't get it when I don't have food because we play fetch so often.


----------



## CptJack

No, you hold up the second toy and wait for her to drop the first one before you throw the second, not just throw the second. 

As for the rest - you need to get things under her belt. There are tons and tons of youtube videos out there. Zak George is pretty good for basic stuff. Sit, down, stay, and leave it/drop it or it's yer choice (there's a youtube video - it's susan garrett) are good places to start. Also some of Zak's videos on tug and how to teach the out for that is very, very useful.

Honestly with your descriptions of where she is, I wouldn't worry about pause tables or anything else with her right now. I'd worry about impulse control and obedience. You don't need much for agility but you do need to be solidly in control of your goal and impulse control is going to be huge with a high energy dog.


----------



## elrohwen

KayaScout said:


> We have tried the two toy trick. She mostly just takes the first toy with her to get the second one haha! She does drop it for treats but then she doesn't get it when I don't have food because we play fetch so often.


Wait for her to drop the first before you throw the second. When she does drop it, say "yes!" and immediately throw the second toy before she has time to think about picking the first one back up.

I wouldn't recommend rewarding fetch with treats at first. It's fine for some dogs who aren't interested any other way, but I think starting with treats can kind of ruin the game for some dogs. Instead of getting enjoyment from chasing the ball and playing fetch, it turns it into a training game for treats which is a really different mind set. My adult dog isn't interested in fetch any more at all unless he thinks it's a training game, and I think it's because we spent so much of his puppyhood rewarding him with food for bringing it back and dropping it.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I wouldn't recommend rewarding fetch with treats at first. It's fine for some dogs who aren't interested any other way, but I think starting with treats can kind of ruin the game for some dogs. Instead of getting enjoyment from chasing the ball and playing fetch, it turns it into a training game for treats which is a really different mind set. My adult dog isn't interested in fetch any more at all unless he thinks it's a training game, and I think it's because we spent so much of his puppyhood rewarding him with food for bringing it back and dropping it.


Also this. I do reward Kylie with food for returning the thing but for Kylie at this stage in her life while she LIKES to do it, it's a trained behavior. It's a trick. She's not doing it for the fun of doing it. She may someday but I would in no way muddy up a dog who likes to retrieve by introducing food as a reward for it.

Heck, I even went so far a few times with Molly as to just look at her and LEAVE when she wouldn't give up the toy. She likes fetch. She likes fetch a LOT. That and the retrieve and what was expected were established by the point I did it and I KNEW it wouldn't ruin the fun for her (this is important), but for her?

Give me the ball back or the game is over.


----------



## Laurelin

I saw it mentioned earlier but Agility Right from the Start is a great book option for some beginner stuff.


----------



## dogsule

Got to work on my running starts a little bit last night, Belle seems really fine with it. Hoping to get to the out of town class tomorrow night and work on it there too. Trial is Sat/Sun. If my running starts work on Sat, I am sure I will be much more relaxed on Sunday. They certainly cannot be any worse that making her sit and then not releasing!

Also fingers crossed that my van will be fixed today so I can get to my classes and the trial!! Ugh. Van was making a noise which sounded like an unusually loud tire hum in the passenger front. Tires were wore (which we knew they needed replacing soon) but the one front one had threads showing in one area like the alignment was off. Got new tires last week, they said the alignment was good. Still made a noise, hadn't mentioned the noise to them though as my dh thought it was the tire. This last weekend dh replaced the brake pads & rotars, one back brake the pad was gone and the caliper (?) was shot. I told him something was up with that back break a month ago! Anyway, still making the noise. Took the van in this morning and they think (by our description) that it is the wheel bearing on that front passenger tire. I am sure hoping so!! Not a cheap fix but not super expensive either. Lots of money in the van right now though....ugh!


----------



## KayaScout

Yeah, we've done that, waiting for her to drop it. She just doesn't want to, she wants to play tug. I am working on a hand gesture with "drop it" and she will get it eventually when she isn't in the mood for tug right then. 

She mas mastered all of her basics. She has sit, stay, come, lie down, leave it, paw, and heel. Impulse control is our focus right now. She is good when she is good but doesn't always have the focus when she hasn't been exercised yet. Obedience is what we need the most, she is very very motivated and ready to please, I just need to master the techniques myself. Thanks for the help!


----------



## KayaScout

She does not drop it at all, the only time she ever does or did is when she is tired and wants to chew it or if it is training. I don't use treats often because usually when we play its just that, its play. But I really want her to master drop it. Kaya enjoys playing with everything so I'm not overly concerned, but we will keep trying!


----------



## CptJack

If she wants to play tug, play tug and teach and out with THAT. Tug with her, grab both sides of the tug toy and make it go 'dead' (don't tug back and forth just hold firm - get a tug toy you can hold both ends of for this). When she eventually gets bored and let's go say "YES' and then shove the tug back in her mouth. Eventually add a 'drop it' (or out) cue before you make the toy go dead, and you've taught the out that will work for balls and fetch.

What you're doing now is... probably not going to work for her. The thing is, the toy is rewarding. Possibly more rewarding than the food, at least AS rewarding. Use the play to reward the out is just about the only way you're going to get this reliable with a play driven dog.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> If she wants to play tug, play tug and teach and out with THAT. Tug with her, grab both sides of the tug toy and make it go 'dead' (don't tug back and forth just hold firm). When she eventually gets bored and let's go say "YES' and then throw the tug back in her mouth. Eventually add a 'drop it' (or out) cue before you make the toy go dead, and you've taught the out that will work for balls and fetch.
> 
> What you're doing now is... probably not going to work for her. The thing is, the toy is rewarding. Possibly more rewarding than the food, at least AS rewarding. Use the play to reward the out is just about the only way you're going to get this reliable with a play driven dog.


All of this. What she's doing is actually good! She wants to tug! That's awesome! You just need to learn to harness that desire and make it work for you instead of trying to work against it. If she wants to tug, throw the toy and encourage her to bring it back to tug with you. CptJack explained an excellent way to teach an out. Just make sure you re-initiate tug or throw it immediately after she lets go. I do trade with food to end the game usually, but I wouldn't use food to train the out at all.


----------



## CptJack

I'll try and get some video of me playing tug with Molly in a little bit. My mechanics aren't great with the actual tugging but I think I can get something that will at least show the 'out/reward' timing. Maybe.


----------



## MrsBoats

KayaScout said:


> Wow thanks! I am in Andover, which is the middle of no where. It is near New London and not too far from Vermont. The daycare that I take Kaya to right outside of Concord has a great agility program, well it seems like it anyway. They are multiple time champions so hopefully their classes are easy to get the hang of. Thanks for the other names, I want to look into all of my options! Kaya is 8 months (today!) and she is still veryyyyyy full of energy and hasn't gone through any obedience school or anything yet. Although she is very smart and loves to please....mostly haha. Any tips or tricks for a puppy with a lot of energy and not much under her belt?? Thanks


I actually do know where Andover, NH is....my husband's aunt and uncle live there.  Yeah...you are out in the middle of Nowhere. LOL I would start working on some basic obedience before you jump into agility. Most instructors require an obedience class or two to be completed before they can enroll into agility classes. You'll need skills like a recall and stay for agility.


----------



## CptJack

KayaScout said:


> She does not drop it at all, the only time she ever does or did is when she is tired and wants to chew it or if it is training. I don't use treats often because usually when we play its just that, its play. But I really want her to master drop it. Kaya enjoys playing with everything so I'm not overly concerned, but we will keep trying!


Here. 

If y'all were expecting me to have like - put on clothes that fit, real shoes, brushed my hair, even bothered to put on a bra or not to have thrown a sweater over a t-shirt and made the whole thing worse you're in for disappointment though.

Seriously, just watch the dog. It's one of THOSE days and I hate doing video everything.

As an aside, she does hesitate a couple of times here - it's been an age since we've worked on this. Also note I am tugging WRONG because of a jacked up wrist/arm that needs surgery this winter. Do not emulate that. Especially with a puppy with open growth plates (and do not do spiny/circles with your dog off the ground either.)






For pure : "Hold it, wait for the dog to let go, throw it back" it's pretty good - though I'm also asking for some other impulse control (like waiting or performing commands) before rewarding her with the tug again here and there.


----------



## MrsBoats

If you get edit the youtube URL in your post to be http:// instead of https://.....that should get the video to show in your post.


----------



## CptJack

MrsBoats said:


> If you get edit the youtube URL in your post to be http:// instead of https://.....that should get the video to show in your post.


Got it! Thank you!


----------



## elrohwen

Our agility lesson was a bit rough last night. Watson was convinced that there was a cat trying to sneak into the arena and would randomly stop and look for it. The instructor said she was getting creeped out because he seemed so sure there was something there, but we never saw anything. A bit "children of the corn". Haha. At least it was actual distraction vs stress for the most part. He would come off the A-frame, get his treat on the target, and then be looking around so much that he would run past the tunnel or almost run into it. Or he would look around and when he was done he would look at me and come right to me like "oh hey, what were we doing again?" even though I'd told him to take a jump or something. And he did leave me to look for cats but came back immediately when I called. So, progress I guess. The best moment was when he was able to practice something new while the instructor's dog was about 10ft away (a cute little female buhund). He's tried to flirt with her before but he didn't even look at her. I was pretty proud of that. 

Also, those cats are jerks. I swear the black one comes out and sits in the aisle specifically to rile the dogs up. We didn't see him coming into class, but leaving class he sat down in the middle of the aisle and watched Watson freak out. He didn't move until were were on top of him and Watson was able to touch him, and then he slowly walked away. So glad that they are adopting those cats out soon. They are jerks.


----------



## missc89

Yaaaay I can kind of finally start posting in here!! Sterling graduated from Puppy K last night (hurray Sterling!) and I really want to keep him in classes because he *LOVES* it. He loves to learn and loves to spend time with other dogs. Also, the instructors love him too and love how smart he is.

He's only 6 months old so I guess I was wondering when is a good time to start with agility classes? I won't be running him in trials any time soon, also 
*:smow: winter is coming :smow:* 
which means that we will be somewhat limited in the space I will have that we can practice in. Should I wait until the spring when I can have more room to practice? Can we start now?

Any input is appreciated!!


----------



## elrohwen

missc89 said:


> Yaaaay I can kind of finally start posting in here!! Sterling graduated from Puppy K last night (hurray Sterling!) and I really want to keep him in classes because he *LOVES* it. He loves to learn and loves to spend time with other dogs. Also, the instructors love him too and love how smart he is.
> 
> He's only 6 months old so I guess I was wondering when is a good time to start with agility classes? I won't be running him in trials any time soon, also
> *:smow: winter is coming :smow:*
> which means that we will be somewhat limited in the space I will have that we can practice in. Should I wait until the spring when I can have more room to practice? Can we start now?
> 
> Any input is appreciated!!


Depending on the way the class is structured, 6 months is appropriate for a beginner class. The places near me have a 6+ months requirement. Most beginner classes are more foundations than anything, and going through a tunnel or getting used to the table are fine for puppies. Other activities can be modified or skipped for a puppy. A lot of the foundations work can be done in a fairly small space too so don't worry about not having a lot of outdoor space to practice.


----------



## missc89

elrohwen said:


> Depending on the way the class is structured, 6 months is appropriate for a beginner class. The places near me have a 6+ months requirement. Most beginner classes are more foundations than anything, and going through a tunnel or getting used to the table are fine for puppies. Other activities can be modified or skipped for a puppy. A lot of the foundations work can be done in a fairly small space too so don't worry about not having a lot of outdoor space to practice.


Yay!! I am REALLY excited about doing more stuff with Sterling. He's seriously a star - especially now that I know his weakness.. HOTDOGS!


----------



## elrohwen

missc89 said:


> Yay!! I am REALLY excited about doing more stuff with Sterling. He's seriously a star - especially now that I know his weakness.. HOTDOGS!


Awesome!

You might need to repeat beginners or foundations with a puppy, because the next level classes might get into stuff that isn't good for puppies to be doing. But even then they should be able to accommodate. Like if the older dogs are doing jumps, they can put the pole on the ground or at 5" or something for a puppy.


----------



## Laurelin

I think age really depends on the training club. Some places will have puppy agility classes and others won't. I would ask around and see when they start puppies. Even if they don't have 'puppy classes' they may do beginner classes/pre-agility in a way that a younger dog could do them. I started Hank at around 8-10 months in pre agility.

You can do a lot of foundation work in more limited space but I'd mostly practice on play and focus.

So Hank and I are at a weird place. We've backed WAY down on agility lately. It's been right for us for now. I am FINALLY feeling a really nice bond with him. I think in the process of him being so awesome and talented I didn't take enough time for cuddles and things like that. He's getting to be my little smush buddy. We missed class this week but I'm seeing great stuff out hiking with him and just being with him. 

A couple friends are telling me I just need to get him more exposed to things and trials but I really think I will be not even trying a trial for a long time with him. I just... it feels like the right choice? I will probably go watch NADAC this weekend since some friends are running. I almost entered intro but decided not to. 

It's really at two points now. Either he A) stresses or B) kicks it in full gear and I don't have the handling skills on him to keep up with him. At the UKC fun run he first was afraid of the fans then decided the fans were fine and let's PLAY. When he got going all I could do was spin him in circles around like 4 obstacles. Too afraid to 'stop' the momentum for fear he'd disconnect. He's just soooo fast it's unreal.

I mean... it's not a horrible thing to wait till he's 3-4 to trial is it?


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I think age really depends on the training club. Some places will have puppy agility classes and others won't. I would ask around and see when they start puppies. Even if they don't have 'puppy classes' they may do beginner classes/pre-agility in a way that a younger dog could do them. I started Hank at around 8-10 months in pre agility.
> 
> You can do a lot of foundation work in more limited space but I'd mostly practice on play and focus.


Yep, agree with this. Both places we've done beginner classes have been super basic. Like, restrained recalls. Wobble board stuff. Tunnels. Stuff any dog of any age could handle. Even the advanced beginner classes, where we got into more contact equip and jumps were pretty basic and easy to modify for a puppy. But definitely good to ask. There are classes that go into jumps and full height contact equip really fast. Faster than I would want to do for an adult beginner dog even.


----------



## Laurelin

I guess I feel like the bottom line is I need to keep him very high to keep him engaged *for now*. But when he's very high, he's so very very fast. I either need more distance or run a LOT faster.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I mean... it's not a horrible thing to wait till he's 3-4 to trial is it?


And no, it is absolutely not!

One thing I've learned from some of the trainers I respect (Fenzi and others) is that there's nothing wrong with getting a dog really ready to trial, even if they don't show until 3-4 years old. It's the novices who want to go in quickly even if they aren't ready, but the really good trainers are patient.


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> I think age really depends on the training club. Some places will have puppy agility classes and others won't. I would ask around and see when they start puppies. Even if they don't have 'puppy classes' they may do beginner classes/pre-agility in a way that a younger dog could do them. I started Hank at around 8-10 months in pre agility.
> 
> You can do a lot of foundation work in more limited space but I'd mostly practice on play and focus.
> 
> So Hank and I are at a weird place. We've backed WAY down on agility lately. It's been right for us for now. I am FINALLY feeling a really nice bond with him. I think in the process of him being so awesome and talented I didn't take enough time for cuddles and things like that. He's getting to be my little smush buddy. We missed class this week but I'm seeing great stuff out hiking with him and just being with him.
> 
> A couple friends are telling me I just need to get him more exposed to things and trials but I really think I will be not even trying a trial for a long time with him. I just... it feels like the right choice? I will probably go watch NADAC this weekend since some friends are running. I almost entered intro but decided not to.
> 
> It's really at two points now. Either he A) stresses or B) kicks it in full gear and I don't have the handling skills on him to keep up with him. At the UKC fun run he first was afraid of the fans then decided the fans were fine and let's PLAY. When he got going all I could do was spin him in circles around like 4 obstacles. Too afraid to 'stop' the momentum for fear he'd disconnect. He's just soooo fast it's unreal.
> 
> I mean... it's not a horrible thing to wait till he's 3-4 to trial is it?


I don't think it is bad to wait. I really didn't think I was ready with Belle but my trainer said going to trials is just more practice to get them used to them. I however do not have a dog like Hank, if I did I would probably have done things differently too. Belle is more high energy at home but away she is much more reserved and intimidated. I do wish I would have gotten into agility with Maya cause I could be so much better with Belle if I had. There is so much I don't know and don't remember so Belle and I are learning together. She isn't all amped up at trials though so I don't have to worry about keeping up with her. If she was, I probably wouldn't have started trialing yet either.


----------



## Kyllobernese

We do not have any puppy Agility training here. The dogs have to be a year old before they can go to a class. They still start with really low obstacles but there is so much more to learn before you even start obstacles, I wish there was a puppy class first. We had no classes at all last year and just one this year. My sister had her Golden in it so I went to watch and most of the dogs were not even good off leash. I think they should at least have some Obedience training first.

My sister's Golden is only 8 months but was allowed into the class as she was not weaving or doing the A-frame and just having the bar on the ground in the jumps. She also has competed with other dogs so knows what she is doing.


----------



## elrohwen

Kyllobernese said:


> We do not have any puppy Agility training here. The dogs have to be a year old before they can go to a class. They still start with really low obstacles but there is so much more to learn before you even start obstacles, I wish there was a puppy class first. We had no classes at all last year and just one this year. My sister had her Golden in it so I went to watch and most of the dogs were not even good off leash. I think they should at least have some Obedience training first.
> 
> My sister's Golden is only 8 months but was allowed into the class as she was not weaving or doing the A-frame and just having the bar on the ground in the jumps. She also has competed with other dogs so knows what she is doing.


I like when agility places run a beginner or foundation class that isn't necessarily called "puppy class", but is appropriate for puppies. Whether they need some obedience training first or not is up to the club. But all dogs can benefit from that drive building games, stay and recall work, etc that you would do in a puppy class. 

I didn't start Watson in agility until he was 1.5 years old, and I wish we had started earlier because he sucked off leash. No amount of obedience classes made him good of leash. There are things he just needed more time to learn, foundational things, and just because he was an adult and could theoretically do full height equipment didn't mean he was ready for that. Hazel has been doing private lessons with Watson for a couple months now (so since 5 months?) and it's been great for her. She's also in a beginner agility class that is very foundational and slow moving. She doesn't have any issues with banging down the teeter, or fear of contact equipment because everything has been a super slow gentle introduction since she's a baby. By the time she's ready to do the big dog stuff she will won't have the weird hangups that Watson did (though it's possible she wouldn't have them anyway because she's a different dog). 

Honestly, almost 100% of the stuff we're doing in lessons with Watson can be done with her anyway - we do a jump grid with Watson, but Hazel can try it with bars on the ground. We do teeter with Watson, she plays the bang game. She can do the pause table, she can work on weave entries (going around the first pole). She can work contacts (just starting on the bottom, or on baby sized equipment). Most of the lesson we work with him doing the real training on his off leash issues, and then for 10-15min Hazel gets to come out and have fun, no pressure.


----------



## dogsule

Had class last night and got to practice my starting with Belle instead of leading out. She did really well. I thought the first course was hard with tight turns and a few backsides (that we don't do often in our local classes). We usually walk the course and then talk about anything we have questions, I had one of the backsides wrong in my head so we got that figured out before I ran. Belle and I ran the course perfectly the first time! She had awesome weaves and was quick, not sure if that had anything to do with me starting with her vs her just being in a good mood or what. Hopefully she will be doing as well this weekend. I am very nervous about running in the Excellent standard, hope it doesn't rub off on Belle at all!

On the other course though she wasn't real crazy about the teeter for some reason. Trainer thought because I lead out too far from it trying to get her to just keep going and not stop. She actually jumped off the side and she never does that! Also found I need to work on her stay on the table. I guess I have always just stood by the box and when the count was done we started together. So far I have never needed to lead out but I guess I never even thought of this. She has never jumped off the table yet (knock on wood) until I said so but she also doesn't have a stay on it either. I always learn so much more at this class vs my in town class. I so wish I could get there every week.


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> I like when agility places run a beginner or foundation class that isn't necessarily called "puppy class", but is appropriate for puppies. Whether they need some obedience training first or not is up to the club. But all dogs can benefit from that drive building games, stay and recall work, etc that you would do in a puppy class.
> 
> I didn't start Watson in agility until he was 1.5 years old, and I wish we had started earlier because he sucked off leash. No amount of obedience classes made him good of leash. There are things he just needed more time to learn, foundational things, and just because he was an adult and could theoretically do full height equipment didn't mean he was ready for that. Hazel has been doing private lessons with Watson for a couple months now (so since 5 months?) and it's been great for her. She's also in a beginner agility class that is very foundational and slow moving. She doesn't have any issues with banging down the teeter, or fear of contact equipment because everything has been a super slow gentle introduction since she's a baby. By the time she's ready to do the big dog stuff she will won't have the weird hangups that Watson did (though it's possible she wouldn't have them anyway because she's a different dog).
> 
> Honestly, almost 100% of the stuff we're doing in lessons with Watson can be done with her anyway - we do a jump grid with Watson, but Hazel can try it with bars on the ground. We do teeter with Watson, she plays the bang game. She can do the pause table, she can work on weave entries (going around the first pole). She can work contacts (just starting on the bottom, or on baby sized equipment). Most of the lesson we work with him doing the real training on his off leash issues, and then for 10-15min Hazel gets to come out and have fun, no pressure.


I wish I would have been able to have Belle in a foundations class, they don't offer one in town here and I didn't know of the ones an hour away for about a year. Belle started beginning agility at about 10 months of age but there were no foundations, just started with bars on the ground or at 4" and did mostly tunnels and jumps first. Slowly added the other equipment. I worked on weaves before and after classes mostly myself and it feels good to hear she has beautiful weaves when I know it was my training that did that. She just got it really quickly working on a set of 12 weaves and me luring her in and out and through them. The teeter took much longer, I think foundations would have helped greatly with not being afraid of the movement or the bang of the teeter.


----------



## elrohwen

dogsule said:


> Had class last night and got to practice my starting with Belle instead of leading out. She did really well. I thought the first course was hard with tight turns and a few backsides (that we don't do often in our local classes). We usually walk the course and then talk about anything we have questions, I had one of the backsides wrong in my head so we got that figured out before I ran. Belle and I ran the course perfectly the first time! She had awesome weaves and was quick, not sure if that had anything to do with me starting with her vs her just being in a good mood or what. Hopefully she will be doing as well this weekend. I am very nervous about running in the Excellent standard, hope it doesn't rub off on Belle at all!
> 
> On the other course though she wasn't real crazy about the teeter for some reason. Trainer thought because I lead out too far from it trying to get her to just keep going and not stop. She actually jumped off the side and she never does that! Also found I need to work on her stay on the table. I guess I have always just stood by the box and when the count was done we started together. So far I have never needed to lead out but I guess I never even thought of this. She has never jumped off the table yet (knock on wood) until I said so but she also doesn't have a stay on it either. I always learn so much more at this class vs my in town class. I so wish I could get there every week.


Good luck!!



dogsule said:


> I wish I would have been able to have Belle in a foundations class, they don't offer one in town here and I didn't know of the ones an hour away for about a year. Belle started beginning agility at about 10 months of age but there were no foundations, just started with bars on the ground or at 4" and did mostly tunnels and jumps first. Slowly added the other equipment. I worked on weaves before and after classes mostly myself and it feels good to hear she has beautiful weaves when I know it was my training that did that. She just got it really quickly working on a set of 12 weaves and me luring her in and out and through them. The teeter took much longer, I think foundations would have helped greatly with not being afraid of the movement or the bang of the teeter.


I feel like all beginner agility classes should actually be foundations. Just don't call them foundations. Haha. Most people will sign up for anything that says "beginner" and not foundations, probably because they assume their dog has some foundation (maybe they took obedience class) or they don't really know what it is. Or they assume it's for puppies.

The place I originally took Watson (where we are doing privates) offers foundations, but only occasionally and only one time a week. Vs beginner which is offered multiple times a week (different trainer each night, so I'm sure they run their beginner class slightly differently). The one we took had some foundations but went quickly into full sized equip. I don't think they took the time to really teach things fully.

Hazel is doing beginners at another place, and they offer beginners, which is pretty much all foundations as far as I can tell (only had a couple classes so far). They also offer a fun agility class where it's on leash and more playing with equipment, just to get people interested. Once they have your interest, you have to go back to beginners and do the foundation stuff. I think it's a brilliant way to organize classes. You still get foundations as part of the beginner class, but you also have a more equipment based class to get people hooked, instead of starting them on a "boring" class where they won't come back.


----------



## CptJack

I am never giving Kylie a month off again.

Tonight, amongst failed discriminations, blown contacts and weave entries, and running out of her way to take an off course jump set at twice her actual jump height, she REPEATEDLY 'took' a tunnel by jumping on top of it and running. 

I am going to cherish that memory because she was so, so happy and playful and bewildering, but. Dog. 

_DOG._

(Might have been having Bug with us. Might have been the cold. Might have been all the time off. Might have jut been zoomies. I honestly don't know, but I do know my expectations of January trial pretty much aren't. We'll work discriminations more, take what opportunities we can get for practice/training and I"ll work her more at home with discrimination type stuff but. Honestly? I don't even KIND OF know how to handle her like this. At all.)


----------



## Kyllobernese

We have upped our Agility practices to twice a week as it will soon be too cold to run in the unheated arena. Usually we arrive and set up a course (all the equipment is already out) and then run through different ways. On Saturday we decided to set up the obstacles for Wednesday's class before we left. Works out great for me as I can run Kris through our courses as I don't do her at the same times as our "little dog class" when I run Remmy and Lucy but go in an hour earlier and do some Obedience and Agility. Kris is coming along really well, has finally got some speed up in her weaves. She loves the teeter and heads for it whenever she gets the chance so have to keep her attention on where I want her to go. I have actually been doing the Agility and Obedience with Kris three times a week most of the summer but they just stopped the Monday group for the winter.

Our "little dog group" has three Papillons, my sister's Rat Terrier, and Remmy and Lucy. We also do have one medium sized dog, an Australian Stumpy Tail. The other group has two German Shepherds, a Bernese, a Rotty, a two Golden Retrievers, and an Australian Shepherd.


----------



## dogsule

We had a great weekend, with three out of four Q's. Just Standard and JWW both days. 

Saturday I was so incredibly nervous for our first Excellent standard run, almost more so than our first Novice run when we first started trialing! We almost Q'd too, Belle had one refusal where I think I pushed her away from a jump but the rest of the run was good! I think my nerves were due to one being in Excellent and two first time doing running starts. But hey the running starts worked awesome! Belle was so much happier!

We Q'd in Open JWW on Saturday which was our second leg in Open. Here is her run, almost lost her to the tunnel after the fourth jump...





Then on Sunday, somehow we Q'd in Excellent Standard. The run isn't pretty but it was fun! She was quite distracted on the dogwalk, not sure what was up there but in a way it helped that yellow tunnel right off the end of the dogwalk from looking good to Belle. She went wide on the one back turn because off to the left (out of camera view) there was a tunnel tempting the dogs to run to it and it lost a few dogs too! Thankfully I was able to pull Belle back. The the jump after the A frame, Belle was just going so fast that she didn't pay any attention to me and kept going straight over to the chute (instead of the table) and then I think she thought "hey where the heck am I going". This sort of frazzled me and I actually started to move away from the table before the judge said go but I guess Belle's feet didn't leave the table until he said go, I know I moved before he said go. The rest went pretty smoothly thankfully. Here is her run...






Then Open JWW was up today. I really wanted to Q in this as it would be her Open Jumpers title. Started out well but then the judges boot distracted her and she had to go sniff it! He didn't have that on in the Std run and she must have noticed it or something. She hasn't sniffed anyone since Novice! Thankfully that just wasted time vs getting an NQ and the rest of the run went well. 

Open JWW and a new title!





and a pic of Belle today with her Sunday ribbons...
IMG_4469a by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## Laurelin

Wow congrats on the titles! Y'all have moved up so fast!!!




Hank had class this week and he was AWESOME. It was in the low 50s so he was really just jacked up and crazy wild. 

I dunno. Nothing super incredible to report. I'm just stoked with him. He's so much fun, it's a total rush to run him. He's so difficult to run too in that he's so flipping fast. I'm just learning a lot from him. Still working on reading him and figuring out how far out I can send him ahead of me and when to time things just right and how to get him to turn tighter. The only major issue we had was that he ran across the broad jump and

Ok so he wants to run under the tire unless I am BEHIND him. If I take off or lead out he will duck under it (I think to try to catch up to me as fast as possible). It's kind of annoying because I just cannot afford to start from BEHIND him. If I start from behind, I am screwed. No hope at ever catching up, lol.

Thank dog for stopped contacts. I would have NO HOPE if I didn't have a few spots in a course where I could stop him. Of course our first run he decided to sprint through all the contacts anyways.... I have to yell the contact word like... 2 obstacles ahead of the contact obstacle.

But gosh it's fun. And gosh it's hard. 

I think even if I lose weight (I'm trying) there's just no earthly way I am going to be fast enough. I am not a slow runner as it is... Trainer says I'm going to have to really rely on jaako turns. Maybe in the future he will send from even further away and then we'll be better off. Right now he sends pretty darn well (like 4-5x the distance Summer ever would) but it's still pretty easy to pull him off too soon.

Gosh he's fun though.


----------



## Laurelin

And one thing with Hank that is SO fun is that I'm really getting to push the handling and trying to make things super efficient. And he surprises me at times because we try something difficult and he nails it.


----------



## kadylady

Look at our "so close to a Q" JWW run from today!!!!! Too many time faults from sinking around resetting the weaves. But holy crap she ran so great!! Seriously....exactly a year ago at this venue we did 6 runs and in those 6 runs she completed zero sets of weaves, couldn't keep her face off the ground, ran around like a crazy and in the 6th run, fell off the A-frame. 1 year later, with half the year off due to injury and very little prep for this difficult venue...this is our first run of the weekend. I don't think I could be prouder of her right now.






For comparison, here is the same run a year ago...


----------



## kadylady

Ya know how I said I couldn't be prouder...? 

Zoey finished her Open JWW title with a PERFECT 100 score today!! Meaning she had perfect weaves!!!! I love this dog so much, she is running her little heart out for me! And I'm loving seeing her confident, happy face out there!!!!!


----------



## Sibe

Brag:
In class last Wednesday, after walking the course our instructor asked what our plan was for the start. Front crosses, rear crosses... I said I was going to lead out. Almost the entire length of the building, there would be weaves behind Denali and a tunnel against the wall behind me. Instructor didn't think it could be done because dog has an almost straight line, but there was a push out through a hoop that could suck them into tunnel entrances. And it's faaar. I knew Denali wouldn't even look at them, but kept my mouth shut. I put Denali in a sit-stay and heard the instructor ask, as I was walking out, if anyone wanted to take bets. (All in good fun, she's an _amazing_ and fun instructor!) Nali was perfect.

Excuse my really crude drawing, but this was basically how it was set up.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats dogsule and kadylady! You all look fantastic! 

We had a successful weekend. Kairi Q'd 2 out of 3 runs. Our Jackpot level 2 was our first run.. and she was absolutely nuts. Couldn't quite focus on me.. too excited kinda deal. We knocked the first bar in the gamble, otherwise we would have Q'd.. all my fault for setting her up wrong. I didn't like that run anyway, as there was no connect and I had to call out to her a loooot to make her notice where I was telling her to go. I sounded/looked ridiculous! LOL. She was a little more focused in her second run, but still a little nuts. By our third, I was finally able to control her. 

Here is our third run. I wish it was a nicer building without giant poles, but it is the easiest place to start around here.




I get nervous in trials and notice my handling goes to crap. I get airplane arms like crazy! Work in progress. It will get better as we continue to trial.


----------



## LoMD13

Congratulations to everyone!! . Great job with the weaves, Zoey! Kairi looks great! Those were some really great runs. 

We played some USDAA today, our Gamblers was probably the best it's ever been. She had a really great opening and I only had to cross the line by one step to get her to go out to the tunnel. We're close! Pairs was a mess, we did SO good up until the last 2 obstacles, and then immediately got 2 faults. Doh. But the best of the day was our jumpers run. It was a tough, tough course. Long (19 jumps!) Twisty. USDAAesque. Our very first P2 Jumpers Q.


----------



## LoMD13

We also had probably our best Gamblers run at that trial, despite some big handling mistakes! She was fast, happy, and collected enough points in the opening. We didn't get the gamble, but we've almost put the pieces together. I just had to cross the line by a step and then she figured it out. We've got the distance to be able to do this gamble, I think I just have to start sending her sooner so I'm not making a sudden stop.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats to LoMD and ForTheLoveOfDogs, great runs! And belated congrats Dogsule!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Thankyouu! We had a whole lot of fun. It will probably be a while until the next trial. There isn't too much going on in the winter that I'm willing to drive to. Bleh. At least we have other things I really wanted to work on. 

Have to brag for Ember (and husband!) in puppy agility tonight. If you saw my other thread, you'll know she has been having major sniffies issues. Husband went ahead and signed up for Fenzi course to work on stuff with her, and has been working on focus stuff since that class. Tonight she did GREAT. She still occasionally stopped to grab stray cookies but engaged very well. There was a lot more tug and fun (husband was much more goofy with her), which definitely helped. She was smiling through the class. Definitely feel it was mostly lack of focus, teenage brain and boredom.


----------



## Laurelin

Congratulations! You guys look great!

This week was hilarious in a way. I just cannot do a post turn to save my life. I just kept on doing Jaako turns. Even when tey made no sense. I mean it worked but my trainer kept saying 'no just turn'. 

Then I'd try and do a Jaako again. Could. Not. Figure out a post turn.


----------



## Laurelin

Ok so I need brainstorming ideas. I am actually getting an open practice on sunday for 30 minutes. No instructor. But I want to primarily work on delay of reward in the ring. We have a habit of struggling if I don't have his toy or food.

How should I go about setting this up to work on? Should I warm up a few runs with the toy? Or start right away small (like a jump) then send. 

My end goal is to leave the reward at the crate and work on that focus without the toy and making him realize even if I don't have the toy physically, it's still an option. We don't get many truly open practices like this so I want to make it count.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Ok so I need brainstorming ideas. I am actually getting an open practice on sunday for 30 minutes. No instructor. But I want to primarily work on delay of reward in the ring. We have a habit of struggling if I don't have his toy or food.
> 
> How should I go about setting this up to work on? Should I warm up a few runs with the toy? Or start right away small (like a jump) then send.
> 
> My end goal is to leave the reward at the crate and work on that focus without the toy and making him realize even if I don't have the toy physically, it's still an option. We don't get many truly open practices like this so I want to make it count.


Can he work with the toy on the ground somewhere? I think I would start there. Toy on ground, do something small, send to toy. Build from there. Eventually get the toy out of the ring, but probably not in the first session.

Also, I feel like the Cookie Jar Games class at FDSA would be good for you guys. It's only week one so I don't quite know where it's going, but I believe the goal is to get dogs working with treats off of your body and for delayed gratification. Specifically with an agility focus in mind.


----------



## kadylady

We got our last 4 CPE Nationals Q's today!! So excited and relieved!! Here's our Standard run from today.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I debuted my whippet this weekend. Had a total blast.

Here is our best run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPnwmepWU14

Our very first run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOB8y1ny3CU

All the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWj3dyCbMA


----------



## Sibe

trainingjunkie said:


> I debuted my whippet this weekend. Had a total blast.
> 
> Here is our best run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPnwmepWU14
> 
> Our very first run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOB8y1ny3CU
> 
> All the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWj3dyCbMA


Awesome! That was all so fun to watch.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Sibe said:


> Awesome! That was all so fun to watch.


Thank you! I was really nervous! Very glad that it all worked out!


----------



## kadylady

trainingjunkie said:


> I debuted my whippet this weekend. Had a total blast.
> 
> Here is our best run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPnwmepWU14
> 
> Our very first run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOB8y1ny3CU
> 
> All the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWj3dyCbMA


That was all really nice!! Congrats! And wow is he fast!! Looks like fun


----------



## trainingjunkie

Thanks! He eats some ground! Ought to be an interesting journey!


----------



## Kyllobernese

He is really fast, great runs.


----------



## MrsBoats

Nice, nice runs Trainingjunkie!!!!!      I knew it would be awesome!!!


----------



## trainingjunkie

MrsBoats said:


> Nice, nice runs Trainingjunkie!!!!!      I knew it would be awesome!!!


Thanks! We sure had fun! I am so glad that he didn't freak out. You really never know until you try it. Now I am motivated to get to work. Oh, and lose about 50 pounds!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats on making nationals kadylady! That must feel so great!

Your Whippet looks like so much fun trainingjunkie! Great runs! They aren't a breed I see in agility very often.


----------



## Laurelin

I'm getting frustrated. We ended up having open practice cancelled. I am the ONLY person signing up for these things so it ends up not happening. But I know that's the only way to work through what I need to work through with Hank...

CONGRATS Kadylady, that is awesome! 

Whippet-boy looks fantastic!


----------



## LoMD13

Congrats Kadylady!!!! Huge accomplishment!!

Trainingjunkie, VERY nice runs, so impressive! You guys are a really great team.


----------



## Finkie_Mom

trainingjunkie said:


> I debuted my whippet this weekend. Had a total blast.
> 
> Here is our best run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPnwmepWU14
> 
> Our very first run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOB8y1ny3CU
> 
> All the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWj3dyCbMA


Amazing!!!!! Great job - happy, fast dog 



kadylady said:


> We got our last 4 CPE Nationals Q's today!! So excited and relieved!! Here's our Standard run from today.


Woohoo!!!! Congrats


----------



## agility collie mom

Savannah and I are oh so close to our Catch in CPE agility. Just need 2 standard Q's and 2 Jackpot Q's. I was hoping to complete it this year but, we are done for the season so it will be 2016.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Congrats on making nationals kadylady! That must feel so great!





Laurelin said:


> CONGRATS Kadylady, that is awesome!





LoMD13 said:


> Congrats Kadylady!!!! Huge accomplishment!!





Finkie_Mom said:


> Woohoo!!!! Congrats


Thank you all!! I'm so proud and excited!

In other news…Skye has started weave training. We're doing Susan's 2x2 method and she's doing really well so far after only a couple sessions. I have to get moving on her teeter, we just haven't spent much time on it. We're going to be getting in some private lessons this month and I'm feeling pretty good about entering her in her first CPE trial Jan 2nd and/or 3rd. Which is crazy! My little baby!  I think it's gonna be a fun agility year with both girls!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations Kadylady! Go get 'em at Nationals! 

And thank to all for the kind words! I really appreciate them!


----------



## elrohwen

Watson is doing well in his lessons! We've started putting some little sequences together and he looooves that part. Weaves are going ok though I'm not finding as much time to work on them at home as I would prefer. Teeter is still bad and there are weeks where he has his setbacks. He still wants to sit on the end of it and has now started backing up, all to avoid the bang when he gets off. Poor dude. So we're trying some different ideas.

Hazel was fantastic in her beginner class, which ends this week. Last class we got to do some fancy sends to a tunnel (basically standing near the exit and sending her away to me to the other end). But since she came up lame the past week we're not signing up for the next round of classes :-( Really worried it will be something congenital like OCD or ED and will put an end to her agility career before it starts. We'll find out next week. My fingers are crossed that she can get back to classes in January. She loves everything about agility. Running fast? Check. Stuff to climb on? Check!


Great job trainingjunkie and kadylady!! You guys are awesome!


----------



## Laurelin

We are going through a lot over here. In some ways Hank is coming into his own. In others, he's really testing me. 

Side note/corny moment: I realized on the way home tonight that Hank is not going to be my 'superstar dog' so much as the dog that is going to teach me a hell of a lot. I mean they all do but he's sooo different in so many ways. and challenging and fun. But he's making me think and re-evaluate a lot and I'm grateful to him for that.

Onto agility news. We did a private lesson and this week's class without his food ball toy. On the private lesson he was SO difficult. OMG. His little brain was melted and he was demanding his food ball and running slow some and distracted and all that. But he started coming together. Tonight he worked for a regular old toy but my trainer started convincing me to put that away too. I started doing the same thing with the toy as I did with the food ball. And the last run tonight he ran with me and only me and PLAYED WITH ME. On his own without a toy after the run. Holy wow, there is hope.

We've been doing rear crosses and they're coming along really well. 

My ONE concern is how sharp he can be with other dogs when he's worked up. He just slides into guarding the crate and screaming when the other dogs move fast on course. I can manage him well but he needs better ring focus. I just don't want him to slip into 'real DA', you know? And it's just tiring managing things that tight. I need to get him out to trials more.

He also needs more exercise to be honest. I just am struggling with finding high energy exercise he can do on a leash or long line. I miss being able to take him to the dog park. :/


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Side note/corny moment: I realized on the way home tonight that Hank is not going to be my 'superstar dog' so much as the dog that is going to teach me a hell of a lot. I mean they all do but he's sooo different in so many ways. and challenging and fun. But he's making me think and re-evaluate a lot and I'm grateful to him for that.


It's the challenging ones who make us better trainers. As much as I roll my eyes at that comment when Watson is being frustrating, it's so true.



> And the last run tonight he ran with me and only me and PLAYED WITH ME. On his own without a toy after the run. Holy wow, there is hope.


That's so awesome! I knew he would figure it out with a little time! He's a smart dog and he likes to work. I think he just needed to figure out that no toy doesn't mean no fun or no reward.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I had almost decided to retire Remmy but since we have been doing handling classes two or three times a week, and I am learning new ways to direct him, he has improved so much. He is actually weaving when I am on the left side of the weaves, something I never thought he would do since I only taught him to do them when I am on the right side which he is perfect at. (beginners mistake when I just taught him on my own, no instructor). He is actually pulling off a tunnel, something which was always a problem. I am aiming for a trial in April with him. I have always thought of what a great dog he would have been with a good trainer. Even with my way of training, he sailed through all his Q's to masters except in Snooker which has been a problem with him not listening to me because I was not giving him the proper direction. The "new" ways I am directing him are just what you would normally use with a good trainer.


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel got to return to private agility lessons! She was so so happy to be there. Kept it super easy, just some tunnels and I showed our instructor where we are at with weave poles (just shaping the entrance, no actual weaving). She had a blast. 

Watson was a good boy. The instructor's friend brought her dog again, who we haven't seen in about a month, and Watson barely glanced over at him. I remember the first few time she came Watson was so distracted and left me to visit the dog a couple times, and last night he just worked through it like it wasn't a big deal. Now that I think about it, he didn't leave me at all last night to hunt for the barn cats either. So it was a good night!


----------



## CptJack

We have done exactly two practices - brief ones - since October. We have a trial in January. She was blowing discriminations and doing stupid things like running on top of tunnels at both of those practices. 

I'm not stressed about it exactly, but I'm fully anticipating having to train in the ring, eliminate ourselves, and laugh a lot. Things have been busy, the dog is bored and pent up and *I* am so out of practice it's just ridiculous. If nothing else it'll make for a really interesting trial report?


----------



## CptJack

All right, things seem to be more or less back where they were. Her weaves are still the most beautiful or most awful things in the world with no inbetween at all, but we've got discriminations back, and her distance is GORGEOUS the little bit we played with it. We killed a jumpers course. 

Weaves worry me (again) but I'm not stressing them like I have been and I am no longer anticipating total disaster.


----------



## kadylady

Had a really great lesson with Skye on Thursday and then a nice little practice today. We've been concentrating a lot of teeter and weaves. Today she did her first full height teeter and rocked it. We've been doing Susan Garett's 2x2 weaves and she's weaving 4 straight, 6 with the last set slightly offset. Also did some short sequences today, reviewed spread jumps and chutes. Her contact behaviors are coming along great. I sent in her very first entries this week! We are entered in CPE on the 31st and 3rd. I'm so excited! Zoey is also entered both days as well so will be my first time running 2 dogs!


----------



## elrohwen

I think we found a way to work on the teeter! We set up one end on the pause table and the returning bang was much quieter landing on the table than on the floor. Watson was still not 100% happy and comfortable with it, but he got better as we practiced instead of worse, and he didn't try to sit on the end at all. Hopefully if we keep it set up like this he'll get more and more confident.

ETA: Hazel is like a squirrel on crack at agility class. So ditzy yet so enthusiastic about doing ALL OF THE THINGS. She is going to be so much fun to run.


----------



## CptJack

I entered all the things, but I am fully prepared to pull her if/when her brain falls out. Meanwhile, my goals for this trial:
1.) Actually run at least one Chances and one Jumpers - not Q, though it'd be nice, but actually run the courses in a trial setting. 

2.) Don't get 'stuck' on her weaves and stress the dog out. If she's not doing them MOVE ON. 

3.) Find somewhere to do a front cross and actually do it. I seem to have some sort of mental block with fronts.

4.) Remember to actually *train in the ring* if something catches us out. I tend to get stuck and want to just finish the course and that's not the most useful thing right now.


----------



## kadylady

Baby dog had her debut in CPE yesterday!! Oh my goodness it was AMAZING!!! So proud of her and what a rush it was running with her! She did 3 level 1 classes and Q'd in all 3! She had amazing contacts! Really just held herself together like a big girl! It was so much fun! We're entered Sunday but I may go back and do day of show tomorrow just because it was so much fun!! Here's a video with 2 of her runs.






Zoey also had a perfect day, she Q'd in 2 out of 2 classes and had really nice weaves and contacts. Here is her Standard run.


----------



## agility collie mom

Congratulations! Looked like you all had a fun weekend. Who was your judge?


----------



## agility collie mom

CptJack said:


> All right, things seem to be more or less back where they were. Her weaves are still the most beautiful or most awful things in the world with no inbetween at all, but we've got discriminations back, and her distance is GORGEOUS the little bit we played with it. We killed a jumpers course.
> 
> Weaves worry me (again) but I'm not stressing them like I have been and I am no longer anticipating total disaster.


Look at any videos that you have of her doing weaves. Just a thought but you maybe in her space when she blows the weaves. My green dog showed me just how much space she needed. Which ended up about 6 ft. away from her at minimum. If I was any closer I would push her past the entrance and screw her weaves up. Some dogs just need more personal space than others.


----------



## agility collie mom

elrohwen said:


> I think we found a way to work on the teeter! We set up one end on the pause table and the returning bang was much quieter landing on the table than on the floor. Watson was still not 100% happy and comfortable with it, but he got better as we practiced instead of worse, and he didn't try to sit on the end at all. Hopefully if we keep it set up like this he'll get more and more confident.
> 
> ETA: Hazel is like a squirrel on crack at agility class. So ditzy yet so enthusiastic about doing ALL OF THE THINGS. She is going to be so much fun to run.


Try a sand bag between the table and the down side of the teeter. It will soften the concussion and the sound for now until he is mors confident.


----------



## kadylady

agility collie mom said:


> Congratulations! Looked like you all had a fun weekend. Who was your judge?


Thanks!! Mike Brownell was the judge Thursday and Friday and Lesa McCann-Layman is the Sat/Sun judge. It's a joint trial, 1 club does the first 2 days and another club does the 2nd 2 days. Lots of fun.


----------



## agility collie mom

kadylady said:


> Thanks!! Mike Brownell was the judge Thursday and Friday and Lesa McCann-Layman is the Sat/Sun judge. It's a joint trial, 1 club does the first 2 days and another club does the 2nd 2 days. Lots of fun.


I thought I recognized Mike. Have shown under both judges. My favorite is Jackie Oricko.


----------



## LoMD13

I am so so happy with the progress me and Lola have made this year. We had a very long NADAC day yesterday, 12 hours and 5 runs. Every single last run was fast and happy. We Q'd and got 1st place in open Regular, open Tunnelers, and novice Jumpers. We didn't get the distance in chances, and hoopers she was just running so fast that I couldn't get in front of her enough for a blind, so we went off course.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Skye looks like SO much fun to run. So much congrats to your great start! And good job Zoey of course!

Good job Lola, too! 

You people entering full weekends are crazy. I just now entered my first full day of 5 runs and I don't know how I'm going to get through it. Maybe it comes with time? Haha..


----------



## LoMD13

No full weekends for me either, one day is quite enough. The one time I did 2 days, I only did 2 runs per day.


----------



## elrohwen

Skye, Zoey, and Lo all look awesome!! Huge congrats on such a successful first weekend with Skye. She's like a gazelle over those jumps.

And we need some video of Kylie, hint hint!

Hazel returned to agility in CT today (as opposed to Watson's private lessons that she crashes). I *love* the instructor for Hazel's class and I'm so sad we're moving in a few months. I finally found someone I just love.

Anyway, today was our first day in Advanced Beginners. I wasn't sure what to expect, since some dogs have been in the class for a very long time and it's a mix of abilities, but Hazel was fantastic. We did some table-jump-front cross-table in an around the clock pattern, and some jump-tunnel-jump stuff with front crosses thrown in. All at 8" of course (I was happy that she jumped well and wasn't careless with her feet). The instructor varied the exercised based on the dog and handler's level of experience, and Hazel was doing the most advanced versions of each along with the more experienced dogs and handlers. It's not like it was anything complicated, but it's stuff that Watson and I struggle with for sure, even just staying focused on me in a chaotic group class like that is nearly impossible for him. But Hazel is 100% focused, and reads me so well. She tries her little heart out and is so easy to work with. I'm blown away by her every single class. At the end of class the instructor went around the room and told everybody what to work on, and when she got to Hazel she said "Hazel is just good."

My only issue right now is that she's not interested in playing with toys in class. I thought it was just this class since we moved inside and it's kind of loud and chaotic at times, but she wouldn't tug at her private lesson either. Not sure what's up because at home and anywhere on our property she would kill for a squeaky tennis ball or a tug. We're going to an open training thing tomorrow where we do obedience and I want to work on playing, but honestly I'm not sure how to work on it if she's just not interested. I'm really excited to have a dog who loves to play, and we've really worked on her play skills (she is fantastic at outing and bringing the tug back, which I never got right with Watson). I don't want to put a ton of pressure on it but I don't want to ignore it and have her toy drive fade away like Watson's did.


----------



## kadylady

agility collie mom said:


> I thought I recognized Mike. Have shown under both judges. My favorite is Jackie Oricko.


Mike is definitely one of my favorites. Have shown under Jackie a few times too and I like her a lot as well. We are showing under her in 2 weeks.



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Skye looks like SO much fun to run. So much congrats to your great start! And good job Zoey of course!
> 
> Good job Lola, too!
> 
> You people entering full weekends are crazy. I just now entered my first full day of 5 runs and I don't know how I'm going to get through it. Maybe it comes with time? Haha..


Thanks! She really is SO SO SO much fun!! Totally different than running Zoey, who is also fun, just very different. I have time to think when running Zoey, with Skye all I can think is KEEP RUNNING!!! lol 

I usually don't enter more than 2 days, if that. Lately, I haven't been entering full days, been doing 3 classes one or two days, which is nice because then I get home before 3 most afternoons. I've only done a completely full weekend 2 or 3 times and OMG it is exhausting. Have one coming up in February and we are traveling 4 hours for the show and staying in a hotel.




elrohwen said:


> Skye, Zoey, and Lo all look awesome!! Huge congrats on such a successful first weekend with Skye. She's like a gazelle over those jumps.


Thanks!! Haha she certainly has no problem with 20" jumps! Crazy legs!

So…….we went back today. I couldn't help it! lol It was equally as fantastic as Thursday. Thursday's judge measured her at 20.75, todays judge measured her at 21.5….She needs one more measurement after her 2nd birthday. 

We had a perfect day again today. Actually finished 2 Level 1 titles and got her first Level 2 Q. She's totally getting this and I love it!  I actually did a little more handling today and it mostly worked well and she read it all well, even my late blind…she totally read it and adjusted. I was like what?! Where's my baby dog?! Anyway…here's our runs from today. 3 more runs tomorrow!


----------



## CptJack

I will someday get video. That day will be precisely when my husband stops scribing and gating long enough to do it, but I'm TRYING. 

We had a long day. I signed up for all 6 runs, and we RAN all 6 runs. 

3 Qs - one of them for her open regular title. She Q'ed in WEAVERS (?!?!?!) and Jumpers, too. Honestly, though, I'm most proud of a NQ. Chances. She GOT THE DISTANCE. We still NQed, because she came back toward me at the very, very start of the challenge and I had to send her back out, but she got ALL THE REST OF IT. As in: She ACTUALLY GOT ALL THE DISTANCE STUFF. Holy crap. I had NO IDEA she could do that stuff!

Actually, every last one of her NQs was gorgeous. Tiny little mistakes, but done at SPEED, with a happy dog driving away from me with confidence and being really responsive and just. Fun. Connected. Happy. 

I'll probably scratch her from regular 1 and regular 2 tomorrow just to give her an easier day. I'm not interested in moving into elite right now - next trial is soon enough - and she was so pathetic at the end. Her jumpers run wasn't *slow*, but it was slower than her regular run and that's saying something (even with her regular YPS being really, really, crazy high for her).


----------



## Laurelin

Everyone looks and sounds amazing! Congrats on all the Qs!

We did an all day workshop today. I am SO SO SO proud of my boy. It was a very challenging environment and he was perfect. I DID use his toys because of how many people and very high drive/screaming dogs were in the ring. I did end up fading it on the last two runs. But I was very happy with him.

But he was great! I got a lot of compliments on him (and questions about his breed, haha). 

And I got a video of one sequence. <3 My boy.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAkUqt8jg9M

And then the last bit we tried a Ketschker (sp?) on this go.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9BXokeqhmc

I do think we have a bit before we try trialling again. But I'm okay with that. I think once it comes together he's going to rock it.


----------



## CptJack

On on hand, we got our Novice Touch 'n' Go title today. 

On the other, I missed a walk through and stepped on the dog and was in massive pain all day, and the dog blew MOST of her discriminations all day and flat out refused to weave. I've learned some things, but today was just all around... weird. Not bad, just not a particularly good trial day. Neither the dog nor I were really there. Definitely NOT doing the 12 runs in a weekend thing again. At least not for a long while.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats on the titles CptJack!

Zoey finished today with a perfect weekend, 2 more Q's. Running less classes is good for her. Running the baby dog is good for her…it makes her want for her turn. She had her fastest run in a while today. Great, fast standard run and a nice jackpot run. Here's her Standard run…






Skye….well she just continues to amaze me. I decided (while consulting via text with my bff/coach) that since she was doing so great, we would try some new things during our Jackpot run. I set us up a nice opening that included the teeter and 6 weaves, both of which are "newer" obstacles to her. She did BOTH! Perfect teeter, bounced past the weaves the first time then focused right in and did 6 perfect weaves on the 2nd attempt!! Mind blown. Such a great baby!! I have to keep reminding myself she's a baby because she's making it easy to forget! After our last run of the day the judge told me that I have an awesome dog. I had to agree with her. She ended the weekend with 8 out of 9 Q's and finished 3 out of 4 Level 1 titles. So much fun!!! Trialing again in 2 weeks and I can't wait.  Here's todays runs.


----------



## LoMD13

Congrats on your weekend! 12 runs in a weekend is a lot for any dog I think, don't feel bad about today! I know high drive agility fiends who would get fried by that. 

Me and Lola worked our way up to 5, and that was about perfect. We had a 12 hour day though on Friday, and i think just about every dog there was exausted by it. Luckily tunnelers was the last run of the day and we can ALWAYS find a reserve of energy for that.


----------



## LoMD13

We actually had HORRIBLE weaves this past weekend too. But I know exactly what caused it (and it was me). She was barreling towards the weaves at full speed, and I didn't think she'd make the entrance so I tried to get her to collect herself, and just completely demotivated her. She still did them, but at a snail's pace. And we still managed to Q 5 seconds under time because she was really fast and awesome through the rest of it.


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, I didn't even make much of an attempt at the weaves today. She popped or missed an entry, I just moved on. The only weaves were in Regular, which I'd intended to scratch but didn't (for dumb reasons), I am completely disinterested in Superior Titles right now and am sure as heck not throwing her in Elite, yet. So it pretty much amounted to 'whatever'. 

Today, I just don't even know. She never went flat, never stressed either high or low. Even the NQ runs weren't bad, as far as number of faults and the actual RUNS. It was just a matter of... God, I don't know, being disconnected and sloppy and... fumble-y all day. Like... even today's T'n'G title Run was awkward and off and uncomfortable because of stupid little things like SLIGHTLY mistimed cues or her being a tiny fraction slow in taking them. Basically, I'm pretty sure today we were BOTH mentally fried and the results weren't pretty - not disaster, just ugh. 

In much better news? Zoey and Skye and Lola are all amazing and I really do need to get video of Kylie just for payback for how much fun I have watching you all!


----------



## LoMD13

Can't wait to see video of Kylie!! No more NADAc until late March for us, so I'm sad about that. Lo does SO well at that venue, far better than our home turf actually. I take her out of her crate and tell her it's our turn and she actually pulls me to the ring. We've got a bunch of USDAA trials coming up, and I'll do far fewer runs there because it's a lot more draining for both of us.

I also checked our times, and also would have qualified in Elite Tunnelers, and that was at the end of a 12 hour day. So I think we'll def move into Elite there. The rest I'll probably try Elite and see how it goes, move back if needed.


----------



## Kyllobernese

No trials till March. This is one of my training videos. Ignore the handling errors, just wanted to show off Remmy's weaves. He has always weaved fine with me on the right but could never seem to get it when I was on the left but he has finally "got it".

https://youtu.be/BUYzUmQmu0s


----------



## CptJack

I'm learning distance skills in lessons now 

This is *fun*. Like seriously, this is SO. MUCH. FUN.


----------



## Sibe

CptJack said:


> I'm learning distance skills in lessons now
> 
> This is *fun*. Like seriously, this is SO. MUCH. FUN.


 I've been starting to do more distance with Denali, we're not too good yet but we're trying some novice Chances at NADAC in a month. Mostly because we're doing everything else that day, so why not? Also finally doing her first Tunnelers runs which I'm _really really really_ excited about.


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> I've been starting to do more distance with Denali, we're not too good yet but we're trying some novice Chances at NADAC in a month. Mostly because we're doing everything else that day, so why not? Also finally doing her first Tunnelers runs which I'm _really really really_ excited about.


I did two chances run at our last trial and I missed the walk through on day 2 so we basically went, did some obstacles and got out. Day 1 though we came closer than I expected - it's not too bad in novice. I will warn you now though, that the mistake both I and another novice friend made: If the DOG comes back over the line with all four paws outside the flow of the course it's a NQ (so you can't pull back and resend). We were both so focused on not crossing the line ourselves that it didn't even occur to us to watch the dog at one particular part of the course. 

Also tunnelers? Is CRACK. I love that freaking game so much. You and Delani are going to adore it. It's pure adrenaline rush.


----------



## kadylady

So this happened today.... 12 weaves? No problem! This dog just won't stop blowing my mind!!


----------



## Sibe

kadylady said:


> So this happened today.... 12 weaves? No problem! This dog just won't stop blowing my mind!!


Awesome! Great focus and Skye does so well driving to the end!


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> So this happened today.... 12 weaves? No problem! This dog just won't stop blowing my mind!!


GO SKYE! Gosh, she's like a big dog all of the sudden!


----------



## kadylady

Sibe said:


> Awesome! Great focus and Skye does so well driving to the end!


Thanks! After teaching weaves to 2 completely different dogs, it's amazing how much it helps to have one that naturally wants to drive forward like that! 



CptJack said:


> GO SKYE! Gosh, she's like a big dog all of the sudden!


She is! She's pulling out all sorts of big dog stuff! I keep worrying about pushing her too hard or too fast and want to hesitate to take the next step, but when we do she totally takes it in stride and impresses me! My coach keeps telling me that I'm not going to break her and that she's not fragile like Zoey. Learning a lot about completely switching mindsets between dogs. It's a blast though. Zoey is my sensitive little princess and Skye is an adrenaline rush.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> I'm learning distance skills in lessons now
> 
> This is *fun*. Like seriously, this is SO. MUCH. FUN.



Yeah, I'm kinda gonna need some of those.... lol Fenzi Academy just hired a new instructor, Amanda Nelson, a big NADAC person from the little reading I've done, and she's teaching distance classes starting in April. Definitely on my radar.


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Yeah, I'm kinda gonna need some of those.... lol Fenzi Academy just hired a new instructor, Amanda Nelson, a big NADAC person from the little reading I've done, and she's teaching distance classes starting in April. Definitely on my radar.


Oh man, I had NO IDEA she was going to teach at Fenzi! This thrills me to bits - she judged one of our local trials and she was just gaga about Kylie and an all around really nice woman. I've seen her run some dogs and her distance work stuff with my instructor is from her. I will *BE* in that class (she's doing them elsewhere now, or at least something similar but FENZI!). She's also where I got a 'moving wait' as both (part of) Kylie's contact behavior and managing some other things on the course, and that's becoming huge in agility in all venues.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> Oh man, I had NO IDEA she was going to teach at Fenzi! This thrills me to bits - she judged one of our local trials and she was just gaga about Kylie and an all around really nice woman. I've seen her run some dogs and her distance work stuff with my instructor is from her. I will *BE* in that class (she's doing them elsewhere now, or at least something similar but FENZI!). She's also where I got a 'moving wait' as both (part of) Kylie's contact behavior and managing some other things on the course, and that's becoming huge in agility in all venues.


Cool! Glad to hear good things about her. I talked with my instructor last night about it to see if she thought it would be a good idea to take or not. Mostly was worried about if it would align (or at least not interfere) with the handling style we've both already learned, which really doesn't have much distance stuff, and the types of courses we're running. Right now I'm pretty sure I'm going to take it at least at bronze, see what I learn and how it incorporates and go from there. Looks like there are 2 classes on the schedule already. In the meantime....I need to learn how to RUN! lol


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WnfGA1YLj8 This is here last year. 

NADAC courses are really different and you have more room to make distance work but I don't imagine there's much there that would interfere. It's different, based on what little I've seen, but it's all directional commands and pushing the dog out and independent obstacle performance stuff. I figure, worse case, you just don't use it  But it shouldn't conflict. 

That's nt a professional opinion though.

And, yeah. I've had to pick up running with Kylie lately. Her YPS keeps going up in all the classes. Admittedly part of the reason we're doing all the distance stuff in lessons now, though the rest is I have to be able to do Chances to get a NATCH and that's. Distance. :/


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> I figure, worse case, you just don't use it  But it shouldn't conflict.


That's essentially what we decided...just another skill in the tool box. And I love learning new skills, even if I don't use them much. I learned all sorts of international handling with Zoey and there are like 2 skills that I might use on very rare occasion. But I loved learning them and still practice them on occasion, even if it doesn't happen in trials. I enjoy having many different skills in my tool box, even if I don't use them in "real life".


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> That's essentially what we decided...just another skill in the tool box. And I love learning new skills, even if I don't use them much. I learned all sorts of international handling with Zoey and there are like 2 skills that I might use on very rare occasion. But I loved learning them and still practice them on occasion, even if it doesn't happen in trials. I enjoy having many different skills in my tool box, even if I don't use them in "real life".


I get it entirely. I did a bunch of wraps to backsides and complicated turns and taught Kylie a teeter and tire just because. None of it's ever happening in our venue, but it's fun to learn.


----------



## dogsule

So I am walking around today with a wrap/brace on my knee. Last night was doing a semi private lesson and had to pivot and run at this one spot and when I turned I don't think I was fully turned and started running at the same time and something happened in my knee. It was so odd, it felt like it tried to bend backwards and give out at the same time but there was no pain. I just kept going and afterward while my knee didn't hurt, it just doesn't feel quite right either. It feels funny under the knee cap. I figured a wrap might help today since it still feels odd. I guess my 50 yr old knees aren't what they used to be or so one of my classmates commented yesterday as it was my birthday. LOL!

I haven't been here in awhile congrats on all the great runs and accomplishments everyone!! We haven't had a trial since November now but have one coming up next weekend, the 23/24th.


----------



## CptJack

Ouch! Good luck with your trial and I hope your knee is feeling better/behaving by then!

--

Do you guys remember when I said Kylie was very consistent and clean but kind of slow? 

Me too.

It's funny now.


----------



## Laurelin

Yes! We have consistent rear crosses at the weaves! 

Annoying note: Bit of regression between Hank and the BC that hate each other. *sigh* Those two are wearing me out. I wonder if it would be worth trying to see if the owner of the BC would meet away from agility some time to try to get them better around each other in a less charged environment. But from my understanding the BC has a hard time out in public. Micromanaging Hank though is driving me a bit nuts. And Hank was the asshole of the two this week.


----------



## Laurelin

kadylady said:


> That's essentially what we decided...just another skill in the tool box. And I love learning new skills, even if I don't use them much. I learned all sorts of international handling with Zoey and there are like 2 skills that I might use on very rare occasion. But I loved learning them and still practice them on occasion, even if it doesn't happen in trials. I enjoy having many different skills in my tool box, even if I don't use them in "real life".


I don't really think most handling interferes or is that different. I personally like running with my dog as much as possible. It's more fun for me and he seems to vastly prefer it. Distance will be necessary for him to an extent though. I am finding the more experienced he is getting the less babying I have to do at every obstacle.

Also international handling? Ketschker is my new favorite thing. I actually really use these and Jaakos.


----------



## Laurelin

Whooo! Just filled out my volunteer form for AKC nationals!


----------



## CptJack

Bug is going back to agility in March. 

Why? Because I am crap at just playing with dogs without doing a thing and because I can, darn it. She's not going back to foundations, though, just beginner. Probably won't ever even teach her weaves, but she can still do jumpers and intro and play with us.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> Learning a lot about completely switching mindsets between dogs. It's a blast though. Zoey is my sensitive little princess and Skye is an adrenaline rush.


That is exactly like my two. Watson is a princess and Hazel is pure adrenaline. We're still on foundation stuff with her and I don't know how I'm going to keep up with this dog. If they are ever both trialing at the same time they'll probably be running novice at the same time, but I'll have to run completely different for each. It's really fun though to switch back and forth between them and work on different issues instead of the same things over and over.


----------



## CptJack

I don't even want to think of how weird switching from Kylie to Bug is going to be. Kylie to Molly are more or less similar, even if we get to competition, because they're both fast, confident dogs and they use the same cues. 

I... can't wait to see how long it takes before I'm either yelling at Bug or aggressively signing at Kylie. :/


----------



## Sibe

I'm signing Bobb up. Yes, you read that right. My 4.5 lb, 11 year old, 2 legged toy poodle who a year ago ]looked like this. Brought him in today for Denali's class (my best friend is visiting and loves him to pieces so could hold him the entire time, and I've taken him before and our instructor loves him). I had him going over a jump (just ground bar) a few times before class just for fun and then our instructor got a video of him doing it and is really excited about how speedy and strong and capable he is. Then we all spent 15 minutes of class time talking about Bobb. I'll get it cleared with his rehab team to make sure they're ok with it and discuss any specific concerns but considering he does cavalettis a couple times a week, and we have him running up and down inclines, I think ground work and intro to obstacle stuff will be totally fine. There are some things he'll never do but I believe we can do this safely without negative impact on his body. He would love the challenge and it would be so fun for him! He can totally do ground bars, tunnels, hoops, go around a barrel, we'll see how he does with the chute. I'm unsure about having him do weaves, that's definitely something to talk about with the rehab team. Plan is to start him next week- which is also the day we declare to be his birthday. Even just the handling stuff will be really fun for him.


----------



## CptJack

Bobb and Bug should form a club! I am so excited Bobb's going to get to play, too!

I'm not really sure what I'll do with Bug/how much I'll do. Intro in NADAC is a definite go, but whether I touch weaves or not and therefore get her up to doing the rest, I don't know. We'll have to see about tunnelers, too, but that's more an issue of her distrust of being out of sight of me because it so completely cuts off her communication. 

Either way, we're going to have fun and I LOVE that they're both going to do the thing this year! I remember us talking about it *last* year (last spring maybe? Not sure).


----------



## Sibe

Go Bug!! Bobb will probably never compete because the distance might be too much for him but we'll see. Intro hoops/tunnels could be possible I guess. Even if he can't make it the whole course, it would be fun to sign him up just to show him off for half a course haha. Like our instructor said today "if this dog can do it, any dog can do it."


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, a lot of the reason I'm even thinking 'competing' with Bug is because I think she'd love being at trials and I know she gets sad when she goes to practices and doesn't get to play a little bit, too. She's obviously got 4 working legs, though, and is a lot bigger than little Bobb.

But mostly I just think it'd be good for her to train some things with me and just *bond* and play.

...and if she makes Kylie a little jealous, bonus. I'm awful.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know when I started with Kiska, my smallest dog, I knew I would not be going that far with her and never even tried to teach her the weaves. I could take her into Jumpers, Snooker and Gamblers and she actually got two Q's, one in Snooker and the other in Gamblers before I retired her. Right now I am working with Remmy and Kris. A big difference in running a small fast dog and a big fast one. I also have to keep remembering that Kris has not had near the miles that Remmy has.


----------



## dogsule

Bummer...was looking at the upcoming trials this spring/summer. The place I trial at has one trial over Easter weekend so I cannot do that one, one over Mothers Day weekend so I will only be able to do Saturday and then one over Fathers Day weekend so I will only be doing Saturday for that one too. This past year I have only done one day however now that we are in Excellent I always wanted to do two days. I tried to get my daughter to ok not going to grandmas until Easter Sunday but she wouldn't go for that. So that whole weekend is out!! I guess in the grand scheme of things this isn't that bad but sort of bums me out a bit.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

There was only one other person besides Lincoln and me at class last night and it was nice! Everyone got plenty of turns and plenty of one on one attention with the trainer to help us if we had any issues.

they also have this new thing called "agility league" for agility 3 class and up, its kind of like a bowling league where they set up a course like a real trial, and you have to walk the course (without your dog) like you would at a real trial, they will have a course sheet and everything ... I can't wait!


----------



## CptJack

It's been 2 weeks since my last trial - and I'm ready for another one. I don't have one until the end of March. Then it's March, April, May, and June. That's slightly better, but I swear when life lightens up some and I can travel I'm going to do at least a little more. I WANT MORE, DARN IT.

I will feel slightly better when we get back to our practices and we get Bug into a class, but this once a week thing is just not cutting it for me anymore.


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack said:


> It's been 2 weeks since my last trial - and I'm ready for another one. I don't have one until the end of March. Then it's March, April, May, and June. That's slightly better, but I swear when life lightens up some and I can travel I'm going to do at least a little more. I WANT MORE, DARN IT.
> 
> I will feel slightly better when we get back to our practices and we get Bug into a class, but this once a week thing is just not cutting it for me anymore.


I humbly suggest adding another sport to help you through the down-time blues. It has been a sanity saver for me!


----------



## CptJack

trainingjunkie said:


> I humbly suggest adding another sport to help you through the down-time blues. It has been a sanity saver for me!


We're doing some rally this year. I think the thing with agility for me is it's a chunk of my exercise. I should probably take up jogging or ... something.


----------



## trainingjunkie

CptJack said:


> We're doing some rally this year. I think the thing with agility for me is it's a chunk of my exercise. I should probably take up jogging or ... something.


 Rally will open up some doors for you! I hope you guys love it!


----------



## elrohwen

Already set up agility lessons for when we move! Yay! I have no idea where we're going to live but at least I have agility done. Hazel will be in a group class with max 5 dogs which is nice, and Watson will do privates for now. I had never come across this place in my previous research, but someone from FDSA recommended the lead trainer (though we will be working with two of her other trainers and not her). The guy teaching the private lessons has had a bunch of mutts and different breeds and is only on his first BC, so I think that bodes well for us. By the time we get there I think both dogs will have enough foundation that we can start focusing on handling and putting things together. 

I really need to work harder on weaves though. I don't put in enough practice and I feel like Watson isn't progressing at all. Hazel seems to be getting the idea though

CptJack, hope you enjoy Rally! I really like it and Watson *loves* it. We'll keep plugging away at agility but Rally is really his sport (other than nosework).


----------



## CptJack

I sent an email out to the trainer asking some questions. I really, really hope they get back in touch with me since I can't register 'for real' until I do. It's at a different facility though which means I need to discuss there pre-req's and figure out if there's an assessment or something I can do. If not, I'm going to have to change dogs or something. Thud's a pain in the butt in some ways, but I am not doing two months of 'sit' 'down' type work with him. Boredom will KILL HIM. I don't mind retaking from the point where it ends in a CGC and invovles heeling instruction (so one class back), but two is just too much for me.

ETA: - Was answering TJ before I saw your post!

I'm glad you've found classes and lessons for Watson and Hazel, Elrohwen! Getting the important stuff squared away is what makes wherever you actually live feel like home


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I sent an email out to the trainer asking some questions. I really, really hope they get back in touch with me since I can't register 'for real' until I do. It's at a different facility though which means I need to discuss there pre-req's and figure out if there's an assessment or something I can do. If not, I'm going to have to change dogs or something. Thud's a pain in the butt, but I am not doing two months of 'sit' 'down' type work. I don't mind retaking from the point where it ends in a CGC and invovles heeling instruction (so one class back), but two is just too much for me.


This is why I hate going to new places. At least I can say that Watson has his Rally Novice, so that gives people an idea of where he is for any type of obedience/rally class. Hazel is trickier. And for agility, what do I say? I guess Hazel is young enough that it's pretty easy for them to guess what level she's working at. The trainer put us into a Foundation III class, and there aren't any class descriptions on her site, so we have to hope that works. Almost all of their evening classes have a waiting list, so if this class doesn't work we're kind of screwed until they can put us into something else.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, this would actually be easier with Kylie because I could use titles as benchmarks. They're pretty objectively useful as gauges for where you are. 

I am really really liking our agility lessons right now. Probably 75% of this one was helping me with handling skills. I think the only things KYLIE really learned were 'tight' (new command in response to some changes in NADAC) and dear god 'where did your freaking A-frame contact go dog?' She's not MISSING it? But it's gone from stopping to this weird skitter slide off the end. Her dog walk is fine. 

Also definitely, definitely have all the confirmation I need to know that I cannot overwork her weaves. We had one sequence with a HARD offside entry - she got the entry, she did her 12 weaves offside happily. Second time? Popped out between 11 and 12. Third time? Third time she got in the weaves and went back herself which was kind of cool but she was also done at weave like 8. It's like you can WATCH them fall apart if she does them more than maybe twice. 

Oh and I did a blind cross today. My new challenge, honestly, besides the distance handling skills/keeping her out/not stopping moving/etc. is honestly just that I have got to stop rear crossing EVERYTHING. I mean clearly it's more or less working but they aren't always the best option. They're just the easiest for me.


----------



## CptJack

I also posted this on facebook but it needs to go here:

This year I really, really need to work more on deliberately strategizing the course, plotting out MY path, and generally doing more than just remembering the course. Not forgetting it is still a major accomplishment, but I do know how to do more than rear cross and right now I swear ALL I am really doing in trials (as opposed to lessons where I'm TOLD what to do to practice the skill) is sort of... getting through the course and hoping for the best. It is more or less working, but there's a better way to do this and I'm not quite capable of SEEING it when I'm out there, much less remembering it. 

I really, really wish NADAC had course maps, but that doesn't mean I can't actually think about options and try and have an actual PLAN to make things work. 

Also I'm a metric TON faster than I used to be and the rest is, sadly, that I am once again running up my dog's butt in places rather than taking the distance I need to make things like front crosses work better, or am just landing in awkward places on the course and wasting time.


----------



## LoMD13

We played some USDAA today and had some mixed success. We only did 3 runs, because USDAA is so much more exausting for us than NADAC, and 3 runs is about all I want to do there. We started the day with an AWESOME P2 jumpers run. Then we had a really nice Pairs run, with VERY fast weaves (Our best ever in a trial) and some really tough discriminations. Our standard run wasn't good- we took an awkward angle to an A-frame and she got stuck up at the top for 5 seconds. Almost missed a discrimination (But saved in the nick of time!) and then after all that- she blew her dog walk contact. How my 8 inch tall dog with the tiniest legs and the tiniest stride managed to blow a dog walk contact, I dunno. The good in that run- we nailed our usual issues! Table was awesome, very fast down! Weaves were great. It was our longest course yet at 20 obstacles, and she was speedy all the way to the end.


----------



## kadylady

We trialed in CPE yesterday and today. Skye did 4 classes each day and Q'd in 5/8. Zoey did 2 classes each day and Q'd in both on day 1 and none on day 2. Today she had an off course in each of her runs, which means she was running fast enough and happy enough to have an off course! So I'll take it! She had some trouble with her weaves today, took all 3 attempts in Standard to get them, but once she did they were nice and fast and she finished so fast that's when she took the off course jump at the end of them. 

Here's a Jackpot run from Zoey on Friday.






Skye.....finally had some baby dog moments this weekend. Running past tunnels, blew through a couple of her contacts, rebounded off of me when I made her come back to restart the weaves....just fun baby dog stuff! lol We both had a blast. Overall she was great and I couldn't have asked for anything better. I was waiting for the baby dog stuff to show up. Apparently rebounding is how she tells me she's frustrated with my decision making lol I tried really hard to praise for good things in the ring and to handle as proactively as possible...which is hard when you had no idea what the baby dog is going to do! But lots of fun was had by both of us and she's doing awesome. She is trialing again next weekend, Zoey is probably getting the weekend off.

Here's Skye's Friday runs.






Here's Skye's Saturday runs... I got a little carried away on iMovie tonight... at least skip to the end (3:15) and watch her rebound. lol


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> How my 8 inch tall dog with the tiniest legs and the tiniest stride managed to blow a dog walk contact, I dunno. .


Kylie's got about 3" on her and her stride is kind of impressive for her size (lots of extension, even with short legs for her height), but my trainer and I were talking about this today - in reference to Kylie's new god-awful a-frame contact (She... slides off the end? It's really weird.) But anyway there was discussion about how she's seen 3lb chis blow a-frame contacts, to the vast confusion of their owners. It's really a thing, apparently, and apparently it happens LATER with small dogs because they need confidence to do it, and it can create issues almost more because the owners don't believe it's ever going to happen/don't know what to do when it does. 

Which. Sounds about right for me. Frustrating as HECK.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> Kylie's got about 3" on her and her stride is kind of impressive for her size (lots of extension, even with short legs for her height), but my trainer and I were talking about this today - in reference to Kylie's new god-awful a-frame contact (She... slides off the end? It's really weird.) But anyway there was discussion about how she's seen 3lb chis blow a-frame contacts, to the vast confusion of their owners. It's really a thing, apparently, and apparently it happens LATER with small dogs because they need confidence to do it, and it can create issues almost more because the owners don't believe it's ever going to happen/don't know what to do when it does.
> 
> Which. Sounds about right for me. Frustrating as HECK.


Hopefully it was just a fluke for us- we've had lots of dog-walk issues in the last year, and the one today was a bit wiggly, so I think she wanted to get off it in a hurry. I will put little hoops out for the contacts in class for the next few weeks just to make sure though!


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Hopefully it was just a fluke for us- we've had lots of dog-walk issues in the last year, and the one today was a bit wiggly, so I think she wanted to get off it in a hurry. I will put little hoops out for the contacts in class for the next few weeks just to make sure though!


I don't even know what's up with Kylie. It's such strange, strange behavior, but she's been doing it for a good 3 weeks now so I need to work it out. I mean it's just bizarrely like she's stopped trying to control her descent on it and then sputter stops to the end. On her butt.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Where we train, the A-frame has been away getting repaired so have not been able to practice on it since fall. Just hoping they get it back soon as it is one "contact" that I really need to practice with Kris. She is good doing a 2o2o on both the teeter and dog walk but was having a problem slowing down enough not to leap off the dog walk before she got to the bottom.

We have finally been able to go back to practicing in the arena as our weather has warmed up to just above zero C (30F). All our training right now is focused on handling and I think it has really helped Remmy to pay more attention to me. Hopefully he will not go back to his "zoomies" when we go to the first trial this year in March. It is our only indoor trial which should help, I hope. One thing I am really pleased about is that he will now weave no matter which side I am on or what distance I am away.


----------



## dogsule

So we had a semi-private lesson on Saturday morning (4 of us) and for some reason we were all having a few issues with a certain send/run/turn sequence we were doing. Belle got it better than I did though and the trainer had me add a bit more to the run and of course wouldn't you know after the extra jump and turn I ended up falling! Not sure if it was the brand new shoes (first time I wore them) or just fumble feet but you should have seen how fast I got up!! Thankfully I landed on my good knee mostly and nothing hurt or anything. 

Then later that day I posted this pic on FB and one of the others in the class with me commented that it looked like me earlier in the day. LOL! (note..I was not upside down though!)
IMG_2145ffS by rzyg, on Flickr

Edited to add...I am getting excited for the trial this weekend! Been two months, hopefully we can do well. Belle has really been training well though so I am thinking positive.


----------



## dogsule

LoMD13 said:


> We played some USDAA today and had some mixed success. We only did 3 runs, because USDAA is so much more exausting for us than NADAC, and 3 runs is about all I want to do there.


What is the difference in the courses between USDAA and NADAC? Or CPE for that matter. How does AKC compare? All I know is AKC.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> What is the difference in the courses between USDAA and NADAC? Or CPE for that matter. How does AKC compare? All I know is AKC.


USDAA is more 'international style' - lots of twists, longer courses, more games, lots and lots of very technical handling. They start with 12 weaves, even in novice.

NADAC has a lot of distance (and requires it), really tight course times, tons of discriminations, and does not have a table, teeter, tire, or chute. The contacts don't have slats but must be rubberized. Jumps can't have wings. NADAC does have barrels and hoops that are mostly means of altering the dog's path but still have some pretty persnicky performance requirements (especially lately). NADAC doesn't call refusals at any level. There are NO backsides in NADAC. It has lots of games that are even more specialized (ie: jumpers is just jumps and tunnels, tunnelers is a course of all tunnels, hoopers is all hoops, and then there's TNG which has no weaves and weavers which has 3 sets, and chances which is required for NATCH and requires increasingly difficult distance challenges (think 25 feet, with all the regular course challenges like discriminations and handling stuff). You can't tug or treat your dog within 10 feet of the ring, dogs run naked (no collar of any sort), stepping back to correct a startline break will get you eliminated, and there are lots of extended titles (so you can get novice agility, but also outstanding novice (for 100 points) etc. in all the classes.), you can move back down if you want and you never have to move up.

CPE I don't know well enough to say, except that they have many levels you move through and they start with no weaves in the very earliest ones.

Pretty sure they all have more 'games' than AKC, but that's about all I know. I'm obviously NADAC (based on the length of that response) but I've done a tiny bit of AKC (JWW and that's about it). NADAC is definitely the 'strangest' of the agility venues, for number of differences.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> USDAA is more 'international style' - lots of twists, longer courses, more games, lots and lots of very technical handling. They start with 12 weaves, even in novice.
> 
> NADAC has a lot of distance (and requires it), really tight course times, tons of discriminations, and does not have a table, teeter, tire, or chute. The contacts don't have slats but must be rubberized. Jumps can't have wings. NADAC does have barrels and hoops that are mostly means of altering the dog's path but still have some pretty persnicky performance requirements (especially lately). NADAC doesn't call refusals at any level. There are NO backsides in NADAC. It has lots of games that are even more specialized (ie: jumpers is just jumps and tunnels, tunnelers is a course of all tunnels, hoopers is all hoops, and then there's TNG which has no weaves and weavers which has 3 sets, and chances which is required for NATCH and requires increasingly difficult distance challenges (think 25 feet, with all the regular course challenges like discriminations and handling stuff). You can't tug or treat your dog within 10 feet of the ring, dogs run naked (no collar of any sort), stepping back to correct a startline break will get you eliminated, and there are lots of extended titles (so you can get novice agility, but also outstanding novice (for 100 points) etc. in all the classes.), you can move back down if you want and you never have to move up.
> 
> CPE I don't know well enough to say, except that they have many levels you move through and they start with no weaves in the very earliest ones.
> 
> Pretty sure they all have more 'games' than AKC, but that's about all I know. I'm obviously NADAC (based on the length of that response) but I've done a tiny bit of AKC (JWW and that's about it).


Thanks for those descriptions. I have always thought those hoop things looked odd, like why not just have a jump there, (lol) what do I know. So is NADAC the hardest? Sounds like it. I do wish AKC had more than just Standard and Jumpers and two games though. Some of our trials don't have either of the games though so you go there for the day and just have two runs. None of them have both games at the same trial either, they either have FAST or T2B but never both. When I first started that was fine but now that I am into it more I would love to have 3-4 runs every day. However with the amount of dogs we usually have entered that would make the day even longer. Usually the games are only on Friday and Saturday, never on Sunday. I cannot do Fridays.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Thanks for those descriptions. I have always thought those hoop things looked odd, like why not just have a jump there, (lol) what do I know. So is NADAC the hardest? Sounds like it. I do wish AKC had more than just Standard and Jumpers and two games though. Some of our trials don't have either of the games though so you go there for the day and just have two runs. None of them have both games at the same trial either, they either have FAST or T2B but never both. When I first started that was fine but now that I am into it more I would love to have 3-4 runs every day. However with the amount of dogs we usually have entered that would make the day even longer. Usually the games are only on Friday and Saturday, never on Sunday. I cannot do Fridays.


I actually really love the hoops. There are still jumps on courses, but there is no impact in performing a hoop and it presents the same handling challenge as a jump. I almost never use jumps in training at home anymore - saves wear and tear on the dog, but that's me. NADAC is also really inclusive and makes it possible for dogs who can't/aren't physically able to do some aspect to find SOMETHING to play in, and I really love that. Took me a while to come around though because my dog didn't recognize them as a 'thing to do' and would go through them but not drive toward them. That's gone away with experience. 

I *don't* always like the way they're used, but that's a whole different thing.

Which one is hardest is going to depend on your skill set and what you know. IMO they all have challenges, but different ones. 

I love the games. I also love that most trials have 12 runs in a weekend - and if there's a Friday (I can't do Fridays either) 15. My next trial I'm not even entered into regular and I've STILL got 4 runs a day. (2 rounds of regular every day). Saturday we have Jumpers, Chances, Touch 'n Go and Weavers, Saturday is the same except Tunnelers instead of Weavers. We even have a trial in June that's all games. The days are LONG though.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I also love that most trials have 12 runs in a weekend - and if there's a Friday (I can't do Fridays either) 15. My next trial I'm not even entered into regular and I've STILL got 4 runs a day. (2 rounds of regular every day). Saturday we have Jumpers, Chances, Touch 'n Go and Weavers, Saturday is the same except Tunnelers instead of Weavers. We even have a trial in June that's all games. The days are LONG though.


Wow, 12-15 runs per day. That would be a bit much. I don't think I would want to do more than 5 maybe, not sure about Belle. Guess I won't have to worry about that though, lol. Nothing real close by here to do NADAC.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Wow, 12-15 runs per day. That would be a bit much. I don't think I would want to do more than 5 maybe, not sure about Belle. Guess I won't have to worry about that though, lol. Nothing real close by here to do NADAC.


12 runs a weekend/6 runs a day. I did that this past trial but mostly do about 4, occasionally 5. 

NADAC is... really prevalent where it's prevalent, and really absent where it's not. There isn't much in between. I have more NADAC than AKC available, even, and absolutely none of anything else.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know most of you are in the States but in our area in Canada we have AAC and just have three games, Snooker, Gamblers and Jumpers, and then a Standard class. We have three levels, Starters, Advanced and Masters. We also have a Steeplechase which I am going to try this year. We have to have a clean run, no refusals, spins before a jump or knocked bars. In Starters Standard you can correct your weaves, in Advanced as long as they get the entry correct, you can fix them and in Masters they have to be perfect the first time. Only one trial a year in our small town, the rest are anywhere from two hours to farther away. Only one place that has an indoor trial and it is about five hours away so usually only go there twice a year.

They do have more trials around Vancouver (the lower Mainland) but no place to camp and Motels are way too expensive to stay in. I am about a six hour drive from there.

We do have one place that has NADAC trials but it is on Vancouver Island so have to take a ferry which makes it too expensive to go to. Really looking forward to this year in Agility after being on the shelf for over a year. Just two trials last fall.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> 12 runs a weekend/6 runs a day. I did that this past trial but mostly do about 4, occasionally 5.
> 
> NADAC is... really prevalent where it's prevalent, and really absent where it's not. There isn't much in between. I have more NADAC than AKC available, even, and absolutely none of anything else.


Ooops my bad, read that wrong. That sounds much more reasonable 6 runs a day. Whew!!


----------



## dogsule

Kyllobernese said:


> I know most of you are in the States but in our area in Canada we have AAC and just have three games, Snooker, Gamblers and Jumpers, and then a Standard class. We have three levels, Starters, Advanced and Masters. We also have a Steeplechase which I am going to try this year. We have to have a clean run, no refusals, spins before a jump or knocked bars. In Starters Standard you can correct your weaves, in Advanced as long as they get the entry correct, you can fix them and in Masters they have to be perfect the first time. Only one trial a year in our small town, the rest are anywhere from two hours to farther away. Only one place that has an indoor trial and it is about five hours away so usually only go there twice a year.
> 
> They do have more trials around Vancouver (the lower Mainland) but no place to camp and Motels are way too expensive to stay in. I am about a six hour drive from there.
> 
> We do have one place that has NADAC trials but it is on Vancouver Island so have to take a ferry which makes it too expensive to go to. Really looking forward to this year in Agility after being on the shelf for over a year. Just two trials last fall.


That sounds similar to AKC. I am lucky that our trials (1-2 a month) are only an hour from my house. There are more trials 2 or more hours away but I have never gone to those places. I may try one of them this year though.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Yay at "Agility league" (its a 6 week class type thing that its set up like a real trial, you get scores and everything!) Lincoln got 2nd place! he only missed out because he knocked a bar down,and took the tunnel instead of going to the table in our first run (both my fault, I was nervous, LOL) and because the other dog was smaller and her times were faster. but as we both got more into our groove, his runs got better and he got all 100's after that!


----------



## LoMD13

USDAA is very very twisty, and very technical. Our P2 standard (one level up from novice) had 20 obstacles, with some crazy twists and backside jumps. There's a lot more thinking involved, so that's why I find it a lot more exhausting and challenging. Fun, but we're both pretty done after 3 runs. 

NADAC is a lot flowier, more disriminations. Tighter times. I don't actually find distance is required in NADAC except for in chances. But there's more people that use lots of distance there. I don't have it and we get along just fine.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> USDAA is very very twisty, and very technical. Our P2 standard (one level up from novice) had 20 obstacles, with some crazy twists and backside jumps. There's a lot more thinking involved, so that's why I find it a lot more exhausting and challenging. Fun, but we're both pretty done after 3 runs.
> 
> NADAC is a lot flowier, more disriminations. Tighter times. I don't actually find distance is required in NADAC except for in chances. But there's more people that use lots of distance there. I don't have it and we get along just fine.


Oh, yeah. My 'required' was referencing NATCH titles. You can skip it on most of the other courses (though I find it useful and sometimes wish I had more, though almost never find a reason to even want it in regular or jumpers (or weavers) TNG I want it more often, and tunnelers), but you're not getting a NATCH without Chances titles. The requirements there are regular, jumpers, and chances. I should probably have been more clear about that.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> Oh, yeah. My 'required' was referencing NATCH titles. You can skip it on most of the other courses (though I find it useful and sometimes wish I had more, though almost never find a reason to even want it in regular or jumpers (or weavers) TNG I want it more often, and tunnelers), but you're not getting a NATCH without Chances titles. The requirements there are regular, jumpers, and chances. I should probably have been more clear about that.


Gotcha! In that case though, distance is just as needed in USDAA-- you need Gamblers for the ADCH. Championship titles aren't really on my radar anyways, I'm running a 7 year old Shih Tzu mix lol. I'll probably keep signing up for chances, and we can probably eventually get our novice, but anything more that is pretty out of reach. Distance isn't really a thing for us. And it's not even a confidence issue or a stressy thing, she just doesn't get it haha. -- the last time we tried chances I sent her to a tunnel, and she drove out past the tunnel, past the jump, and just ran to the corner of the ring like "OK I went out, now what"


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Gotcha! In that case though, distance is just as needed in USDAA-- you need Gamblers for the ADCH. Championship titles aren't really on my radar anyways, I'm running a 7 year old Shih Tzu mix lol. I'll probably keep signing up for chances, and we can probably eventually get our novice, but anything more that is pretty out of reach. Distance isn't really a thing for us. And it's not even a confidence issue or a stressy thing, she just doesn't get it haha. -- the last time we tried chances I sent her to a tunnel, and she drove out past the tunnel, past the jump, and just ran to the corner of the ring like "OK I went out, now what"


Yeah, I don't know a thing about the champ titles in anything except nadac and a little bit of AKC. 

Kylie's actually weirdly good at distance. I'm not, but Kylie's foundations classes were taught by the head of our nADAC club so they START with being able to send the dog to an obstacle. Even foundations ends with a little distance competition so the dogs learn fast to go out and do the thing. It's kind of cool, but I still actually have some issue letting her GO. Chances might be good for me. Maybe. 

(I WANT MY NATCH. I don't know if it'll ever happen, but I want it. :/)


----------



## elrohwen

Omg, we're never going to get weave poles. It's all my fault that we don't practice enough, but I'm starting to feel discouraged that we haven't advanced in a while.


----------



## Laurelin

Which dog? I wouldn't even start them for Hazel till she was past 1 year. But just my opinion.


----------



## CptJack

Weaves are stinking hard. They're hard to teach, they're hard for the dog to LEARN, and even past learning so much of it's muscle memory. Then you risk stressing the dog out if you overwork, while losing them completely if you UNDERwork. 

And yeah, I wouldn't work with Hazel at all, to be honest. The motion's hard on their bodies and it's really complex behavior. Some 2X2 stuff, sure, but probably not more than that. 

Plus it seems like weaves are this kind of 'lightbulb' thing, where you can teach and refine but before they're ready to grasp it there is NOTHING you are going to do to get them really doing it.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Which dog? I wouldn't even start them for Hazel till she was past 1 year. But just my opinion.


Both for different reasons. I'm only shaping entries, so I don't think there's any reason not to do it with Hazel. It's no more strain than going around a cone and we only do 10-15 reps at a time. And there's almost no speed element.

Hazel is fine, she's getting it, I just need to put in the work. But Watson is frustrating. He's still clearly guessing a lot of the time and if he can't figure out the right pole based on my body position he just guesses and then starts weaving through random poles like "this is it? I do it right?!" No dude, not right.



CptJack said:


> Some 2X2 stuff, sure, but probably not more than that.


That's all she's doing. Finding entries, really. I'm not concerned with her age at all for what we're doing.


----------



## CptJack

Are the poles in a straight line for him yet? Where are you, exactly? (I'm mostly sticking with 'it's hard and they become scary/stressy easily and take forever in general but I'm curious )


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Are the poles in a straight line for him yet? Where are you, exactly?


The poles are always straight. We're not using the exact 2x2 method though it's similar from what I can tell. I'm working on it the way our instructor suggests, which is basically a couple different exercises. Hazel's instructor starts similarly with finding entries but I don't know where she goes from there because we haven't done anything with weaves in class.

Step 1, finding the entry. So basically being able to stand at any position (around the clock) and have the dog enter the first pole. That involves either wrapping around the first pole or the second depending on what side you're starting on, if that makes sense. Watson struggles to find the entry unless I'm standing right there, otherwise he goes around whichever pole I'm closest too. It's basically all shaping, no luring. Hazel is good at this and I think she's most figured it out and I can get a little distance. This is the most frustrating part because I feel like after this long he should at least know which freaking pole is the right one. 

The second step is standing in the poles, 2 poles back, then 3, etc and having the dog find the entry and weave a bit. He is better with this and can do maybe 3 poles? But he'll have one good session and then fall apart the next and act like he has no idea what we're doing. But that's pretty typical for teaching Watson anything.

Step 3 is working on exits which we only do with the instructor, as it involves driving to a target. Again, we're at about 2 poles.


----------



## Laurelin

I think some dogs take to 2x2s really well and some do better with other methods. I would definitely not try to confuse things by throwing every method at him but also if one isn't working well, switch to another. 

Some dogs get it faster than others too. Hank got it in like... 3-4 sessions really. And his weaves are solid. Summer.... 2 years for iffy weaves on one side. It's not anything different I did, it's just.... Hank is better at it than Summer.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> I think some dogs take to 2x2s really well and some do better with other methods. I would definitely not try to confuse things by throwing every method at him but also if one isn't working well, switch to another.


I do like this method because it involves a lot of shaping and having the dog work it out, instead of the methods that are more physical manipulation of the weaves like channels or weave-o-matics. But it's hard to train stuff like this with Watson. He guesses a lot and either doesn't think or over thinks. lol But IME, once it finally clicks he is *solid* on the behavior. So I'm hoping it clicks.

I think Hazel is going to get it this way, I just have to do more sessions so we can see more progress. She thinks things through and doesn't guess so much. It's just been a slow process and not that much fun to train (from my POV)


----------



## Laurelin

I know I am backwards from a lot of people but I like teaching the weave motion and then going back and proofing entrances. I worked Hank a bit from some easier angles and both hands but I still have not asked him to really have to wrap the poles. I am adding in more challenges like rear crossing the poles now after he has a solid idea of 'weave all these and stay in there'

But that's for HANK. Not saying it'll work for all dogs/handlers.

I basically started with 2x2s at easy angles then once he hit 3 sets of 2x2s turned them into essentially channels. For the harder stuff (like the rear crosses) we will lure the entrance to help him 'get in there' or we will pull out specific poles if he's struggling with staying in (rare) or finding the first pole. I find it a lot easier to do now that he understands the concept of weaving. We introduced rear crossing the weaves now that he gets rear crosses and gets weaving. It took 2 lured tries and then he was solid without any help.

Summer on the other hand is just not as independent in agility so I think she cued off my position a lot more and not babying her weaves would be harder. But I'm a fan of 'use whatever method works' for weaves. A lot of people seem married to strict 2x2s.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

elrohwen said:


> Omg, we're never going to get weave poles. It's all my fault that we don't practice enough, but I'm starting to feel discouraged that we haven't advanced in a while.


Dont feel bad, Lincoln took a long time to get the weaves, too; and yes I started working on them with him when he was like, 6 months, BUT we went very slow, I didnt rush him at all, I focused on developing the "in and out" muscle memory, now that is growth plates are closed, we are starting to speed it up now.

But you know the old saying "slow and right beats fast and wrong"


----------



## Laurelin

It takes most dogs months to a year to really weave in my experience. I've known a lot of people have trouble with 2x2s with specific dogs. I think it works great for many dogs but not all.


----------



## elrohwen

I see the value of using a few different methods to get all of the pieces put together. I'm going to stick with this until we move, because I think it's a solid method. Once we start with a new trainer in May we'll see what he does and maybe going to a different method for a bit will help Watson put it together. It might help to put him on channels or something so he can get the motion and get the full picture, and then maybe our entry and exit work will kind of come together.

And I don't want to have to baby his weaves, because he's a dog who would easily fall into that. Our instructor is also very into teaching independent obstacles which I think is great and what he needs because he's not a dog who takes to that easily.



Laurelin said:


> It takes most dogs months to a year to really weave in my experience. I've known a lot of people have trouble with 2x2s with specific dogs. I think it works great for many dogs but not all.


We're on 5+ months  But like I said, I have not been working on it as much as I should so I totally take responsibility for that.

It's not like I expect either of them to weave at this point. I really don't, I know it's not that easy. But I thought Watson would have figured out the entry by now without me standing 2ft away. It's mostly the lack of progress on what seems like a very simple step that has me discouraged.


----------



## CptJack

I am 99% sure the issues I have had with Kylie's weaves are down to unclear criteria from me at the early stages. I could be wrong about that, and we're still working on getting her to do things in trials that she'll do at home, her weaves will fall apart if you look at them wrong, but they're better.

Same Method with molly, but Molly was able to get a no reward marker and not stress out about weaves at all. Molly's weaves are way, way more reliable and independent. She's also smarter and less 'worried' about things in general.

Ironically Molly is not the dog who trials. Kylie, meanwhile - well, I expect that I'll always have occasional missed entries and pop outs or skipped poles, but c'est la vie. It'll probably improve some once we have 12 with a competition base, and it's improved a lot simply by NOT practicing at home EVER anymore.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

elrohwen said:


> I see the value of using a few different methods to get all of the pieces put together. I'm going to stick with this until we move, because I think it's a solid method. Once we start with a new trainer in May we'll see what he does and maybe going to a different method for a bit will help Watson put it together. It might help to put him on channels or something so he can get the motion and get the full picture, and then maybe our entry and exit work will kind of come together.
> 
> And I don't want to have to baby his weaves, because he's a dog who would easily fall into that. Our instructor is also very into teaching independent obstacles which I think is great and what he needs because he's not a dog who takes to that easily.
> 
> 
> 
> We're on 5+ months  But like I said, I have no been working on it as much as I should.
> 
> It's not like I expect either of them to weave at this point. But I thought Watson would have figured out the entry by now without me standing 2ft away.


LOL Lincoln is the opposite, his attitude is "I can do it myself, I dont need you!" LOL so we are working backwards,teaching him TO take direction.


----------



## Laurelin

Babying weaves should be a last resort but I think for Summer that was the only way. lol She just didn't understand anything but luring the weaves.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I started competing with Remmy in 2012 and at that point he would only weave if I was on the right side of the weaves. Now after a year off I concentrated on getting him to weave when I am on the left side and he has finally got it and I sometimes forget when we are practicing which side is the one he would not do before. I don't know why it was such a problem for him before but once he finally got it, he does great.

My sister has been working on her Rat Terrier and the weave poles for a couple of years now and just lately she has finally learned it. Ended up going back to the "old" push-pull method after working on two-by-twos for months so she has good entries but just could not get the idea of continuing on.


----------



## Laurelin

Here's the first weaves vid with Hank but he was already pretty far.






6 months ago (He never ever misses now)






vs Summer.

















Poor Dear, she tried.


----------



## CptJack

I honestly don't believe there is a single method that is going to work for every dog - and that applies to all kinds of training but especially as something unnatural, complicated, and sustained as weaving. 

Babying - I don't even know. I think it depends on your dog. I honestly don't think there's much to be gained by taking a dog who has no confidence and trying to make them learn to do it themselves. I do think you can make a dog too dependent on it and stick there and that's an issue, but. Well. Confidence building and setting up for success are things for reasons. Take a very unconfident dog and make them work it out you're just lowering their confidence further, and adding stress. You're also probably ultimately sacrificing speed.

Conversely, I definitely see a lot of 'taught dependence' and fell into that a lot myself with Kylie, because I just didn't want her dashing away to Do The Thing and I'm now having to make her contact behavior more independent for all the practical reasons. And I really DID slow her down a ton by babying her, as well as kill confidence that was already there. 

Just know your dog, I guess, as in everything else.


----------



## CptJack

Also this whole thing brings to mind the 'continual command to keep them in the weaves (trilling, clapping hands, repeating weave or drawing it out so there's sound/command the entire time) versus single command for the whole set.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oRWFqIaeb0

This is Molly's from a while back. I'm not even NEAR her, much less moving with her. I WISH I could get that with Kylie? We're working on it but it's not there yet. ...Needs to be for Chances, but. We're trying, I guess?


----------



## Laurelin

Basically the way I think about it is that I first teach him to jump with me running right next to him. As he gets more experience, he'll get more 'obstacle focus' and I won't have to be RIGHT THERE with him at every jump or tunnel... or weaves. Since the 6 months video we've just worked independence and getting him to stay in while I cross behind him or in front or basically just do what I need to do. 

We teach every other obstacle as 'this is how to do a jump' or 'this is how to do a tunnel' then start adding in fancy stuff and independence.

That NEVER would have happened with Summer but that's ok since she was slower. It would limit my handling options but hell... she was 9 at the time and it was either get weaves that are good enough to make it work or don't bother trialing anymore.


----------



## CptJack

> I WISH I could get that with Kylie? We're working on it but it's not there yet






Heh. I was *wrong* about her level of independence. Still not exactly what I want but damned good if I say so myself.

Two disclaimers; That house is the background is not mine and looks deceptively close, and yeah, I just used the poles that were stuck up as a boundary. They're all cock-eyed and erratic and not what we practice on anymore but COLD.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> Babying weaves should be a last resort but I think for Summer that was the only way. lol She just didn't understand anything but luring the weaves.


Idont baby weaves, either, if he misses one he has to start over from the beginning LOL. he HATES to repeat anything, and that resonates with him more than anything else I have tried (disclaimer, that works for LINCOLN, not saying it would work for every dog, ever). As soon as he gets it right, we move on to the next thing.

It would help if I had weaves at home to work on, but alas, I do not  I need to get around to building some.

The trainer I started with here, started on what she called "open" weaves, and I told her I didnt want to run them that way, since he had learned on "closed" weaves.


----------



## LoMD13

I do baby weaves with Lola. She just didn't get them at all so we just do what we have to do to get them done. She's pretty decent with them now, but they can still go to a crawl in trials. I learned that a lot of that was MY confidence with them.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson's thing is that he really REALLY likes patterns and repetition. He finds repeating a behavior to be confidence boosting. The problem in the weaves example is that he's very good at going out around the pole closest to me, but as soon as I raise criteria and step a little bit to the side, he might go around the second pole because now that's the closest one. And if you use an NRM or don't reward, rather than thinking it through and trying something else he will do his patterned behavior (now around the wrong pole) again and again getting more frustrated that it's not working (obviously I don't let it get to that point if I can help it)

I know he's not unusual in this, but it does make shaping things harder. He challenges me as a trainer to split things down into small parts, not raise criteria too fast, take a step back when needed, etc. And since weaves are fundamentally a pattern, I have a hunch that once he gets it down he will be very consistent and happy to do them over and over, because the fundamental pattern doesn't change. Once the dog is in the weaves it's a lot of muscle memory. Getting to that point with him can be tough though. It asks a lot of my fairly poor training skills.

ETA: And this is why he's much better with some of the other exercises, like where I stand in the weaves, 2-3 poles deep, and he weaves towards me. That he can pattern and do the same every time. But finding an entry when I'm changing the picture and standing in completely different spots is a very hard thing for him to grasp.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> I do baby weaves with Lola. She just didn't get them at all so we just do what we have to do to get them done. She's pretty decent with them now, but they can still go to a crawl in trials. I learned that a lot of that was MY confidence with them.


Kylie's weaves in trials are sometimes very, very sad things. She's gotten better, but apparently that's where *all* her trial stress shows up if it's going to. A lot of it is my stress level, for sure. 

At home she's pretty great. At practices and lessons she can be. Trials are very... hit or miss.


----------



## Laurelin

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Idont baby weaves, either, if he misses one he has to start over from the beginning LOL. he HATES to repeat anything, and that resonates with him more than anything else I have tried (disclaimer, that works for LINCOLN, not saying it would work for every dog, ever). As soon as he gets it right, we move on to the next thing.
> 
> It would help if I had weaves at home to work on, but alas, I do not  I need to get around to building some.
> 
> The trainer I started with here, started on what she called "open" weaves, and I told her I didnt want to run them that way, since he had learned on "closed" weaves.


By babying I mean luring or having to stay right next to them when they weave.


----------



## LoMD13

Lo has the same trial weave problem! She'll do them, but slooooooowly like pulling teeth. I did notice at the last NADAC trial that it was pretty much completely because I tried to get her to slow down a bit and collect herself so she could make the entrance. Completely deflated her. At USDAA, it helped that we were coming from a tunnel, but I ran excitedly to the weaves and didn't worry about her making her entrance, and they were much much better and faster


----------



## LoMD13

We don't start over either if she misses one, that'd be really demotivating for Lola. And in USDAA you can just pop them right back in where they popped out anyways.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> Lo has the same trial weave problem! She'll do them, but slooooooowly like pulling teeth. I did notice at the last NADAC trial that it was pretty much completely because I tried to get her to slow down a bit and collect herself so she could make the entrance. Completely deflated her. At USDAA, it helped that we were coming from a tunnel, but I ran excitedly to the weaves and didn't worry about her making her entrance, and they were much much better and faster


Oh yeah. Our odds of happy weaves are higher if I am behind her and am just waving her toward the weaves and giving a verbal command, rather than trying to make sure she collects or hits the entrance. Of course our odds of her popping out that way are also higher 

I really think I'm just going to start limiting her weaving rounds per day in trials and limiting the work I do at home overall. It seems like repetition makes them worse for her.



LoMD13 said:


> We don't start over either if she misses one, that'd be really demotivating for Lola. And in USDAA you can just pop them right back in where they popped out anyways.


I actually even in NADAC don't always start her over. If she's happy and peppy and on, I'll have her spin and then try again ONCE. If she's trudgy and slow or stressed? Nope. MOVING ON. See also that thing I just said about repetition making them worse.


----------



## elrohwen

Ok, so I sat down and watched some 2x2 videos since I haven't really looked at it in a while. I think I'm going to do some of this with Watson and see if it clears some things up for him. It's compatible with what we've been doing, but it should give him less options and less chance to be wrong than the way I'm currently doing it. It also seems like it will be more patterned with less thinking required on his part.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Laurelin said:


> By babying I mean luring or having to stay right next to them when they weave.


OH okay, I see. I will only do that if he has an "off day" or something. I also dont care how slow he does them as long as he gets them right, right now LOL. slow and right beats fast and wrong, I have seen a slower dog beat a faster one simply because they got no faults.


----------



## CptJack

Heh. My agility instructor's motto has been "Better fast and happy than correct." I have DEFINITELY adopted that, particularly with Kylie. 

We're not competing with anyone out there except ourselves and the clock for the Q (we get a lot of firsts but let me tell you how little it matters when it's a first on a non-qualifying run). Beating another dog doesn't mean CRAP, really, and if we have time faults we are just as NQed as if we have course faults. 

And NADAC course times aren't BAD at lower levels but they quickly get TIGHT - at least tight enough that if the dog isn't *running* you aren't going to be making time.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Heh. My agility instructor's motto has been "Better fast and happy than correct." I have DEFINITELY adopted that, particularly with Kylie.


Yes! Same for my dogs! When I started with Watson I always thought better slow and correct, but now we've gone the other way. He is a slow and careful dog by nature so he needs an injection of fast and happy.

Hazel is fast and happy incarnate, and I've really tried to build that even more with her in agility rather than dampen it for the sake of correctness. So far so good! She is wild.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kairi had been trained with purely Channel Method and Around the Clock for entries. As long as she is practicing every once in awhile, her weaves are solid, independent and pretty darn fast. I plan on doing some 2x2 work for more solid entry once the Spring rolls around. I've heard that 2x2 is better for entry but channel is better for speed. I think I will combine the two with both dogs as long as they take to it. I strongly feel people should do what works for their dog. If that means a less popular method.. then so be it.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Yes! Same for my dogs! When I started with Watson I always thought better slow and correct, but now we've gone the other way. He is a slow and careful dog by nature so he needs an injection of fast and happy.
> 
> Hazel is fast and happy incarnate, and I've really tried to build that even more with her in agility rather than dampen it for the sake of correctness. So far so good! She is wild.


YEP! I definitely originally said, "Well, she's clean and consistent?" when she was walking or maybe trotting the course but honestly? She wasn't going to Q that way anymore than she was if she couldn't weave or was jumping contacts or zooming wildly taking whatever she felt like. There is a balance, but as things go you need more and more speed and more and more confidence from the dog and insisting on perfect performance, IMO, doesn't really help.

Heck, when we started distance stuff with Kylie I was specifically told 'If she goes out there and does something wrong? You don't correct for it - you reward that she went out, because the further out they go, the more confidence they lose and they just become less willing to try'. That's pretty... accurate all around, actually, for my experiences with agility. Confidence and happy are KING.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Kairi had been trained with purely Channel Method and Around the Clock for entries. As long as she is practicing every once in awhile, her weaves are solid, independent and pretty darn fast. I plan on doing some 2x2 work for more solid entry once the Spring rolls around. I've heard that 2x2 is better for entry but channel is better for speed. I think I will combine the two with both dogs as long as they take to it. I strongly feel people should do what works for their dog. If that means a less popular method.. then so be it.


Not that I've finished anybody's weaves, but in theory I do like the combination of 2x2 and channel to get the final product. The place we train doesn't even have channel weaves, but like I said we'll be moving soon and going to a new place so we can see what they do. 

"Around the clock for entries" is exactly what I was trying to explain, but in a much more succinct way! Yes, this is where Watson is struggling. Just me moving my position and still finding the first pole is so very hard for him. He's kind of figured out that this is about weaving though because when he's wrong he'll just randomly weave 3 poles or so to see if that's what I want. Just gotta do that starting in the right spot and he'll be golden. Haha


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> YEP! I definitely originally said, "Well, she's clean and consistent?" when she was walking or maybe trotting the course but honestly? She wasn't going to Q that way anymore than she was if she couldn't weave or was jumping contacts or zooming wildly taking whatever she felt like. There is a balance, but as things go you need more and more speed and more and more confidence from the dog and insisting on perfect performance, IMO, doesn't really help.
> 
> Heck, when we started distance stuff with Kylie I was specifically told 'If she goes out there and does something wrong? You don't correct for it - you reward that she went out, because the further out they go, the more confidence they lose and they just become less willing to try'. That's pretty... accurate all around, actually, for my experiences with agility. Confidence and happy are KING.


Watson has decided that he loves the a-frame, and now he'll go and take it without me cuing (not from like across the arena, but if we're near it off leash he'll run ahead and just take it). And part of me is like "No!! Not right! Stop taking obstacles!" And the other part of me says "He lacks confidence and doing this obstacle he now enjoys builds his confidence, let him go. If he doesn't get reinforced for it when it's not cued he'll figure it out". It makes him happy to do that stupid A-frame and that makes me happy.

I'm not that lenient with Hazel and do try to call her off, but then she doesn't lack confidence and is much more obstacle focused. She's also the dog who is more likely to leap from the top of it and hurt herself because she's an idiot. I don't worry about Watson hurting himself on contact obstacles because he is so careful.


----------



## CptJack

It's a miracle Kylie can weave at all. I did some 2x2 at the end to help with entries, but mostly? I lured, I shaped, I did some channel stuff, I mostly just blindly fumbled around utterly method free going "I don't know, you need to weave, how hard can it be." 

...Most of our agility issues would not be here (there'd be different ones but not the same) if I'd TRULY understood what I was going to use those behaviors for in the long run and what they'd look like on a course/in a course. Since I didn't, well.



elrohwen said:


> Watson has decided that he loves the a-frame, and now he'll go and take it without me cuing (not from like across the arena, but if we're near it off leash he'll run ahead and just take it). And part of me is like "No!! Not right! Stop taking obstacles!" And the other part of me says "He lacks confidence and doing this obstacle he now enjoys builds his confidence, let him go. If he doesn't get reinforced for it when it's not cued he'll figure it out". It makes him happy to do that stupid A-frame and that makes me happy.
> 
> I'm not that lenient with Hazel and do try to call her off, but then she doesn't lack confidence and is much more obstacle focused. She's also the dog who is more likely to leap from the top of it and hurt herself because she's an idiot. I don't worry about Watson hurting himself on contact obstacles because he is so careful.


I had a problem briefly with 'contact obstacle' sucking because she really, really likes the dog walk and a-frame but mostly I just - whatever. Go have fun. I've started seeing her taking extra obstacles if my handling is slow now, and you know? It's a weird thing to be happy about but I am. Because it means she's speeding up, and she's anticipating what comes next, and she's doing it happily so man. Whatever. 

It' actually kind of neat to see, because she's gone from this dog who was always right beside me and I said would never take off courses to this zippy little yappy thing who is making me work. She's less consistent, but she's actually having more success. It's just.. her 'not success' is no longer 'too slow' it's WILD RIDE. Except weaves. Where it's still too slow and careful too often.

(We had a dog at our last trial accumulate 120 course faults. A HUNDRED AND TWENTY. It was awesome.)


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I had a problem briefly with 'contact obstacle' sucking because she really, really likes the dog walk and a-frame but mostly I just - whatever. Go have fun. I've started seeing her taking extra obstacles if my handling is slow now, and you know? It's a weird thing to be happy about but I am. Because it means she's speeding up, and she's anticipating what comes next, and she's doing it happily so man. Whatever.
> 
> It' actually kind of neat to see, because she's gone from this dog who was always right beside me and I said would never take off courses to this zippy little yappy thing who is making me work. She's less consistent, but she's actually having more success. It's just.. her 'not success' is no longer 'too slow' it's WILD RIDE. Except weaves. Where it's still too slow and careful too often.


Yes, this is Watson. He is super handler focused, I need to be right there and baby every obstacle. I mean, he's learning still and it's to be expected, but it's just obvious that he is more on the handler focused end of the spectrum. And he is so freaking careful that if he is not sure he can jump something perfectly he runs out on it (which is why he's still at 12", which he could step over but instead jumps with perfect form). He's so careful with contact obstacles that we've trained running contacts because he just has no desire to run fast or jump off early. We'll see if this backfires, because we haven't trained them the super careful Trkman way, but I think he'll be ok even after we remove the target at the end. So if he's going to go ahead and take an A-frame because he likes it, he can knock himself out. It's so fun when he's actually having fun and not worrying about doing it right.

And then there is Hazel. She's going to be the dog who is 4 obstacles ahead of me on course, flinging herself at them. Here's a funny story from last week: She's done the teeter bang game in privates a million times, but never seen the teeter at the place where we do group classes. So the instructor had her bang it a couple times since it was new (and louder) then had me go back a couple feet to get some speed coming in. The goal was still just banging with front feet, but Hazel flung herself at it above the contact. lol She was a little startled when it banged (it was a couple inches off the ground, she thought it was resting on the ground), but it didn't phase her and she got off and did it again (though with a little less flailing). She's going to be a danger to herself if I don't train contact obstacles carefully. lol But I love her enthusiasm!


----------



## dogsule

We never did any type of foundations so no 2x2's to learn weaves. In fact we rarely did weaves at all in beginners class. I took it upon myself to do them (all 12 normal weaves just luring her through them) before or after class. We started agility classes in Feb of 2013, by July Belle had pretty good weaves. She just "got it" really easily and is now pretty good at hard entries and me trying to get ahead of her too. Tried a front cross while she was in the weaves the other day and it pulled her out on the last one, still working on that.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> (We had a dog at our last trial accumulate 120 course faults. A HUNDRED AND TWENTY. It was awesome.)


Holy crap, Wouldn't a judge blow the whistle by that time?


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Holy crap, Wouldn't a judge blow the whistle by that time?


In NADAC? Nope. They'll excuse people only if they train more than once in the ring, go WAY over time, or the dog is behaving dangerously/not working with their person. Sadly, the dog applied to none of those. He was just a really fast, hyped up, BC, who kept taking extra obstacles. One on course, one off, one on, one off, for like. Half the freaking course. It was THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN. (He's a moderately successful dog most of the time but for whatever reason that run he was just... nutty.)


----------



## dogsule

elrohwen said:


> Yes, this is Watson. He is super handler focused, I need to be right there and baby every obstacle.!


I do this with Belle in the trials (and sometimes at class) however I am constantly being told to stop doing it cause she doesn't need it. However there are times when I have moved and pulled her off of something. I don't feel I can try it in a trial yet, just not that confident.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> I do this with Belle in the trials (and sometimes at class) however I am constantly being told to stop doing it cause she doesn't need it. However there are times when I have moved and pulled her off of something. I don't feel I can try it in a trial yet, just not that confident.


And this is why I like 'Chances'. They give you a line you can't cross and MAKE YOU try it. Though in fairness I started agility classes 2 years ago in foundations and have been yelled at since to stop micromanaging my dog. So it's taken me this long to try. 

That said, moving OFF and not staying with the dog aren't quite the same thing. Necessarily. I'll send Kylie, or use lateral angles, or let her get ahead and keep directing, but if I took a sharp left turn while she was completing an obstacle, I'd pull her with me.

Also in fairness: I have no intention of entering freaking Elite Regular for a while. We're there/CAN? But man. My brain is just not ready to think of us as elite in anything.


----------



## elrohwen

It's very reinforcing to me to "help" Watson. Even on simple things like waiting on a table, our trainer called me out for helping him on the release or whatever, when I don't do that at all for Hazel. I think he likes the help and appreciates the help which makes me do it more, but also means I need to make an effort to stop doing it so he can learn to be more independent. I think if we can get over his distraction issues and his confidence with certain obstacles he will make a very nice consistent little agility dog. It's easier to start out with a handler focused dog than an obstacle focused dog!

Hazel has a very good natural balance I think. She's a naturally handler focused dog who also loves obstacles and running really fast. It's easy to switch her between the two and send her on ahead, or keep her right with me.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> And this is why I like 'Chances'. They give you a line you can't cross and MAKE YOU try it. Though in fairness I started agility classes 2 years ago in foundations and have been yelled at since to stop micromanaging my dog. So it's taken me this long to try.
> 
> That said, moving OFF and not staying with the dog aren't quite the same thing. Necessarily. I'll send Kylie, or use lateral angles, or let her get ahead and keep directing, but if I took a sharp left turn while she was completing an obstacle, I'd pull her with me.
> 
> Also in fairness: I have no intention of entering freaking Elite Regular for a while. We're there/CAN? But man. My brain is just not ready to think of us as elite in anything.


How is your Elite different than what you are in? All I know is AKC. Novice for the most pary is pretty easy, but there isn't a huge difference between the Open courses and the Excellent/Masters courses except of course you cannot make any mistakes.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> How is your Elite different than what you are in? All I know is AKC. Novice for the most pary is pretty easy, but there isn't a huge difference between the Open courses and the Excellent/Masters courses except of course you cannot make any mistakes.


Open tends not to be much different, to be honest. The courses are usually longer and require higher YPS to make time, but that's about it. The actual challenges are not particularly different. It's some weird mental hangup. I just don't feel like someone who should have an elite dog in anything. I'll probably get over it and enter some regular in April. March I'm just doing games, anyway.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Open tends not to be much different, to be honest. The courses are usually longer, but that's about it. It's some weird mental hangup. I just don't feel like someone who should have an elite dog in anything. I'll probably get over it and enter some regular in April. March I'm just doing games, anyway.


Ok, got it, I so do not feel like I should be in Excellent either. My trainer (both of them) have told me that both Belle and I are doing awesome for being totally new to the sport and only training one year and then trialing. I know we have advanced to Excellent but I don't feel like my runs are prefect enough to be there. That being said I do see others making mistakes there too so it puts it in perspective. I do love it though and now so want our MACH. LOL! Have to get up to Masters first though!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Ok, got it, I so do not feel like I should be in Excellent either. My trainer (both of them) have told me that both Belle and I are doing awesome for being totally new to the sport and only training one year and then trialing. I know we have advanced to Excellent but I don't feel like my runs are prefect enough to be there. That being said I do see others making mistakes there too so it puts it in perspective. I do love it though and now so want our MACH. LOL! Have to get up to Masters first though!


A lot of it's speed for me. We had a couple of trials without Qing in Novice, but then we basically got through Novice and Open in two trials. Elite is as far as it goes. I do want our NATCH (NADAC MACH) too though so I'm going to have to suck it up. Probably after I get into Elite with jumpers, too, but the first time we'd done a Jumpers course was this past trial (was doing other games) adn we have to get there with Chances, to get it, too. (Well get there and get all the Qs required).


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

elrohwen said:


> Yes! Same for my dogs! When I started with Watson I always thought better slow and correct, but now we've gone the other way. He is a slow and careful dog by nature so he needs an injection of fast and happy.
> 
> Hazel is fast and happy incarnate, and I've really tried to build that even more with her in agility rather than dampen it for the sake of correctness. So far so good! She is wild.


Lincoln is opposite, he is VERY fast and VERY happy, so he needed/needs a dose of "slow down and watch yourself" LOL


----------



## Sibe

Guys. Bobb loved it. Happy 11th birthday, little Bobb!









Video
https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/vb.924990094205737/1021268564577889/?type=2&theater


----------



## Kingfisher

I don't post here often so most people don't know me, but Keeper starts agility on Monday!

We'll be taking private lessons for a while, and then will be blended into a group. I'm so excited! And nervous...


----------



## CptJack

Kingfisher said:


> I don't post here often so most people don't know me, but Keeper starts agility on Monday!
> 
> We'll be taking private lessons for a while, and then will be blended into a group. I'm so excited! And nervous...


I am so excited for you guys! I will be wwatching everywhere you post


----------



## dogsule

Kingfisher said:


> I don't post here often so most people don't know me, but Keeper starts agility on Monday!
> 
> We'll be taking private lessons for a while, and then will be blended into a group. I'm so excited! And nervous...


Good luck, I am sure you will have a blast. I must say it is addicting. What type of trials are in your area once you are ready for them?



Sibe said:


> Guys. Bobb loved it. Happy 11th birthday, little Bobb!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How adorable.


----------



## Sibe

Have fun, Kingfisher!
---
Bobb has had some tummy upset since agility class. I counted out how many pieces of kibble he'd get during an average rehab session (it was 62) and put exactly that many in a baggie, and the night before class I put his average meal (it's dehydrated food) mixed with water into a squeeze tube and used that during his class so I don't think it was a food issue during class. I was really worried I'd overfeed him, which I accidentally did not too long ago and nearly killed him. So I don't think it was that, but anyway I'm being really careful and planning ahead for classes to make sure I don't over/under feed him. He went through all his kibble during class and about half his dehydrated stuff- which worked perfectly in a squeeze tube btw- so I gave him the rest of it in a crate during Nali's class.

Anyway, so tonight was the first night I've really had him work and practice stuff. We're doing:
Sit at both sides
Fast down at both sides
Hand targeting (which is normally the very first thing I'd teach a foster dog but with his mouth pain after all the nasty stuff he's been through I'd never taught it)
Stay

He's doing awesome. He's soooo enthusiastic, and every time I pause he looks up with this super derpy happy face, bouncing and waiting for me to tell him what to do next. He's a maniac!

I also need to work on crate training with him since he gets extremely whiny when he knows I'm around but cant see me or get to me. He whined so much during Nali's class after finishing his food that I had my mom hold him, and I'd carry him while walking courses. He's ridiculous[ly adorable].


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kingfisher said:


> I don't post here often so most people don't know me, but Keeper starts agility on Monday!
> 
> We'll be taking private lessons for a while, and then will be blended into a group. I'm so excited! And nervous...


Good luck! You will have a blast. 

Also, have fun Bobb and Bug! Might as well throw Thud into the mix..  (kidding!)


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Good luck! You will have a blast.
> 
> Also, have fun Bobb and Bug! Might as well throw Thud into the mix..  (kidding!)


You know, I've periodically considered trying agility with Thud. 

Then I remember Thud's less agile than a pregnant musk ox and does crap like try to walk through fences. I'm still occasionally tempted but I'm pretty sure he'd kill himself. (I know you were joking but it's just FUNNY)


----------



## dogsule

I might try taking Angel in and see what she would do on the equipment. Not in a class but just by myself as I now have a key to our building!! Woohoo! I have had it since the beginning of the year as I joined our kennel club this past August. So any time the building isn't being used for something else I can go in and set something up and work on it. How cool is that? The building is about 10 min from my house!


----------



## CptJack

I'm jealous. I think I'm going to be buying a mini-a-frame to go with my regulation weaves. Maybe a set of a few jumps so I can work on those with Bug at home, though I do most of my handling work that way with hoops as they're just easier on the dog. 

I considered a contact trainer but I'm pretty sure that would do me more harm than good since she'd stop trusting the equipment the first time she decided to blast over the thing instead of using it as designed.


----------



## dogsule

So we had our first trial of the year this past weekend. We haven't trialed since November and I am not sure what was up but Belle was distracted the whole weekend (I did two days). No games this weekend so just Standard and Jumpers. On Saturday it was our very first time in Excellent jumpers and we did manage to Q. Belle started quite slowly though and I think something was bothering her ear. If you watch the video she shakes her head after jump #5 and jump #6 bu then seemed to get more into it after that and finally kicked into gear on the last few jumps. Glad we got that Q cause the rest of the weekend went downhill....

Here is our Excellent Jumpers run from Saturday....is this what you call babying the weaves? Most of the people that run do stay by them like this...





On our Standard run on Saturday it started with the tire and for some reason Belle went almost around it and then I got her back through it, so we were done before we started but kept going and when Belle got on the teeter she went the middle and just froze, she didn't look scared or anyting but for a long time refused to move. Finally got her off and we continued on ok but as she was on the table, the judge was saying the 5,4,3,2,1 and go as he was walking towards us and Belle looked at him and of course when I said ok she ran over to him! Not sure what was up with her! 

On Sunday our Jumpers run she went into the wrong end of the tunnel, mostly my fault there, the rest was fine though. In Standard it started with the tire again and she started fine, I think I may have been too close to it for some reason on Sat. Got to the A frame and she stopped on the top looked around, saw the judge and came down and again went to him! I think she liked him for some reason (the curse of having a people loving dog I guess!) I did think enough to firmly tell her NO though and she came right back. She did have two other little stops once when she thought there was something on the floor and once when she thought she should take a different jump than what I told her to. It was actually a very ugly clean run but waaaayyy over course time. Not sure what was up with her, very distracted this weekend.


----------



## Kingfisher

dogsule said:


> Good luck, I am sure you will have a blast. I must say it is addicting. What type of trials are in your area once you are ready for them?


We'll be trialing mostly AKC. I'd rather not (border collie politics), but our trainer does AKC and it's the dominant venue in my area for the most part. I'll do some NADAC since it's around here too, but not until I'm ready to go trial by myself. That'll be about 2 years from now, I'm in no hurry.  I don't really care where I trial, I just want to enjoy my dog. Our trainer has trailed everywhere, so she'll prepare us to do all the different course styles.


----------



## dogsule

Kingfisher said:


> We'll be trialing mostly AKC. I'd rather not (border collie politics), but our trainer does AKC and it's the dominant venue in my area for the most part. I'll do some NADAC since it's around here too, but not until I'm ready to go trial by myself. That'll be about 2 years from now, I'm in no hurry.  I don't really care where I trial, I just want to enjoy my dog. Our trainer has trailed everywhere, so she'll prepare us to do all the different course styles.


Yeah I only do AKC and so far have only trialed at one place that is about an hour from my house. I may try a place that is about 2 hours away once this summer, not sure yet. Belle is much more reserved at trials and moreso at a new place so not sure how we would do. I really love doing this sport, it is fun even if you do mess up. I trained for a year and have been trialing for a year now (next month will be a year). We somehow managed to get our AKC Novice Agility, Novice Agility Jumpers, Open Agility and Open Agility Jumpers in that year. So far we have one leg each in Excellent Agility and Excellent Jumpers. My goal of course is a MACH however I am not sure we will ever get there, you need so many points and Double Q's, that will not come quickly so I am all about having fun!


----------



## CptJack

She looks great, DogsRule. Honestly, I think everyone has those weekends. Just part of the gamble/slot machine analogy on our ends - and probably part of what keeps us hooked; unpredictable success/variable reward ;P

re: Babying the weaves - not necessarily? I mean sometimes you're just going to run beside the dog because that's how the course works. A lot of things in our courses, and I'm talking NADAC, won't allow that very easily and there's a lot of benefit in being able to send the dog ahead of you to get the entry and go, to being able to go ahead yourself and know the dog will stay in and complete the weaves, to do crosses while they're weaving, or even to move off toward the next obstacle to set up for the next line while they weave. Ergo I really, really, make it a priority, especially in NADAC where Chances sometimes involves weaves 25 (or more) feet way from the line you can't cross in higher levels and a good 10 feet even in Novice. 

Re: Trailing/classes/time: Kylie started classes Jan '014, Finished classes in, if I remember, July (right before I got Molly). We took a LONG break, came back in something like Feb. (2015) and did practices and some lessons, did our first trial in April. So, yeah, something like 15 months? With some break, but I wish I'd kept on. We've only done 5 trials, and the first two were a total wash and just us figuring things out while continuing with private lessons. Title wise we've managed Novice Regular, Open Regular, Novice Tunnelers, and Novice T'n'G, with some Qs in Weavers and Jumpers. There will be a few more trials this year, so we'll see how that pans out for us. We'll probably do our first Elite course at the trial exactly a year from our very first one.

HOWEVER, if Molly weren't insane I'd be expecting less in trials with her because she's a faster, more driven, dog. Kylie started out very, very 'forgiving' of handler error, was willing to keep pace with me. She's sped up (a lot!) but she was really a very easy dog to start with. I mean I might have tossed Molly into a trial at 'intro' levels or whatever for experience, but it'd take a lot longer to be truly trial ready. (And then she'd probably have progressed faster).


----------



## CptJack

Do you have long term agility goals? If so, what are they?


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Do you have long term agility goals? If so, what are they?


Mine are, of course to get our MACH but I know and realize this is really a long term goal.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

I went to an agility trial to just watch this weekend, and it was cool! so many different kinds of dogs there, I even got to meet a mudi! She was so cute and her owner was so nice.


----------



## CptJack

My two longest term goals are a NATCH and 1000 lifetime points. I think both are pretty achievable unless Chances kicks us harder than I think but. Kylie's not even four yet, and I 'only' need 62 more Qs for the NATCH. 

and 85 for the lifetime points, but. 

LIFETIME.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> My two longest term goals are a NATCH and 1000 lifetime points. I think both are pretty achievable unless Chances kicks us harder than I think but. Kylie's not even four yet, and I 'only' need 62 more Qs for the NATCH.
> 
> and 85 for the lifetime points, but.
> 
> LIFETIME.


In AKC you can't start earning points or Double Q's towards your MACH until you are in the masters class so you have to have already achieved Novice, Open and Excellent titles in both Standard and Jumpers before you can even think about a MACH. You need 750 points (1 point for each second under course time) and 20 Double Q's all in the masters class. 

How does the NATCH work?


----------



## CptJack

That answer was not clear as it could have been. Let me try again.

NATCH is 230 points in Elite Regular, 130 in Jumpers, 130 in Chances. Each regular Q is worth 10 points. You can earn 15 or 20 point Qs by doing 'bonus boxes', but they aren't required. There are no time constraints beyond course time, but NADAC being NADAC, the course times in elite are already pretty danged tight. You do have to have finished your Novice and Open titles to earn points in Elite. Elite is our Masters, there is an OPTIONAL level below novice that we skipped. We're in Elite Regular, already. 

So we need 23 Elite Regular Qs (haven't run it yet, but we finished open last trial), 13 Elite Jumpers, 13 Elite Chances + 3 Open Jumpers, 3 Open Chances, and then 3 Novice Chances and 2 novice jumpers (I have JUST started running Jumpers and Chances at all). 

There are also versatility awards for completing your titles in all 6 classes at each level. I would LIKE to get those too, since a lot of the other classes are tons of fun to run, but we'll see. 

Lifetime award points, the level you earn the points in doesn't matter.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> That answer was not clear as it could have been. Let me try again.
> 
> NATCH is 230 points in Elite Regular, 130 in Jumpers, 130 in Chances. Each regular Q is worth 10 points. You can earn 15 or 20 point Qs by doing 'bonus boxes', but they aren't required. There are no time constraints beyond course time, but NADAC being NADAC, the course times in elite are already pretty danged tight. You do have to have finished your Novice and Open titles to earn points in Elite. Elite is our Masters, there is an OPTIONAL level below novice that we skipped. We're in Elite Regular, already.
> 
> So we need 13 Elite Regular Qs (haven't run it yet, but we finished open last trial), 13 Elite Jumpers, 13 Elite Chances + 3 Open Jumpers, 3 Open Chances, and then 3 Novice Chances and 2 novice jumpers (I have JUST started running Jumpers and Chances at all).
> 
> There are also versatility awards for completing your titles in all 6 classes at each level. I would LIKE to get those too, since a lot of the other classes are tons of fun to run, but we'll see.
> 
> Lifetime award points, the level you earn the points in doesn't matter.


So you don't have to Q in regular, jumpers and chances on the same day to earn points? You can Q in one thing and still earn points towards your NATCH? It is just points that earn you the NATCH? 

So far we haven't been too successful in getting Double Q's but I think they will be easier and quicker to get than the 750 points. This past weekend our one Q run we were 5 seconds under course time so if we were in masters (in both std and jww) we would have earned 5 points. Considering you could earn points in both classes I could estimate I could earn 10 points a day at a trial if we Q. I can't imagine being a whole lot faster than this once the course times get tighter in masters but who knows. With this scenario considering we run about 12ish trials a year and if we double Q'd at every trial it will take me over three years to earn our MACH so I am assuming it will be much longer than that.


----------



## CptJack

You don't have to get the points the same day or even the same trial; it's entirely points based. 

I don't know what's going to happen with us re: course times when we get to elite. We've had places where there is no issue and she would have gotten them but when she's off even a little bit and slows down, she's slow enough that I worry a bit. Regular not so much, Chances is a pass/fail class where you always have 40 seconds and frankly since it's a distance challenge time isn't much of a consideration/that 40 seconds is generous. Jumpers worries me. I guess we'll see. Right now her YPS are from 4.4 when she's ON and that's more than enough to something like 2.8 when she's off and that's not even CLOSE.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Long term goal: I'm going for a C-ATCH title in CPE. It will be a long road there but I think eventually we can do it. (I say as I'm just getting out of level 1!)

I honestly have no desire to even start AKC (even though it is the most common venue), and no idea if I really will. Maybe eventually, I guess.  I just hear how mean people are compared to CPE. It really depends on my husband if he decides to do AKC with Ember.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and whether I ever go or not, I would like to qualify for Champs just once. Not necessarily with Kylie, but at some point I want to qualify.


----------



## Kyllobernese

This is one of our Agility practices with Remmy. He has always loved the tunnels and we have been working really hard at sending him to different ends so I was so pleased when he looked back at me at the last tunnel to see where I wanted him to go instead of just going through on his own. He stalls a bit in some of the tunnels as there are some beginners using them and I suspect someone has peed in them. He did miss one weave but it was the side I am still working on him doing with me on the left of the weaves.

https://youtu.be/HC_RaNslYqI


----------



## sydneynicole

CptJack said:


> Do you have long term agility goals? If so, what are they?


Mine are to finish our foundation courses so we can start getting somewhere! I know the foundations are important, and Oliver is just a baby, but I want to do all the things!


----------



## Kingfisher

We have a dangerous new addiction.

Keeper LOVED it. Me too of course, but I was curious what he'd think. There was essentially no equipment, but we did quite a few exercises. She was getting to know him, a good number of things she usually starts her student doing were things I had already taught him, so I think we'll get to hit the ground running. She usually introduces spinning both ways, going through and coming back out of your legs, nose to hand targets, and some guiding skills that he already had mastered. I'm sure I'll enjoy looking back at my weekly lists of tasks and laughing as we progress!

Today we:
-Put 4 feet in a bucket. (Mostly fixing my communication skills.)
-Put 4 feet on a bucket. (Again, my skills.)
-Beginning of nose target work, nose to a disk and a release.
-Beginning "out", guiding him around a trash can on a straight line with the trash can passing between him and I.
-Cavalettis with a low jump to see his jump style. He's a wild child...
-Very, very, very beginning of weave poles. She likes to start them early so they don't end up a big deal in the long run.

Our biggest challenge was keeping his hormones under control! She has an indoor, carpeted facility. So naturally, marking was absolutely first on his mind for the beginning. He was still a little sniffy during slower things, but I'm sure we'll work that out. He was WAY faster and more excited than I expected him to be. It was quite clear that my energy will be a big factor in his performing abilities. I also use WAY too many words.

He was absolutely exhausted for the hour drive home, and we can't wait until next week!


----------



## dogsule

OMGosh, I just found out that Belle actually Q'd in her standard run on Sunday even though she was over course time by just over 5 seconds. I could have sworn the sheet that they post in the building with the results said NQ but I must have looked at it wrong. I guess in Excellent you can have time faults, you get 3 points off for every second over course time and can still qualify with an 85. I did not realize this. So Belle's extra 5 seconds of farting around on the course (actually it was way more than 5 seconds) took off 15 points and allowed her to still Q! Amazing. I will not share the video of that ugly run though! LOL!

Sooo, we have one more Q needed in Standard before we get to Masters and two more in Jumpers.


----------



## dogsule

Oh and I have another funny to share from the trial. So a dog was running in either excellent or masters, not sure which, when it had to take a crap. I have btdt so that was not new to me however the rest of it was. So they are cleaning it up and the judge had walked over and the dog (a big dog too) started humping the judges leg!! I about died laughing as did a whole lot of other people! I guess this dog has done this humping thing to judges before too! I would die of embarrassment! Have any of you seen that one before??


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kingfisher said:


> We have a dangerous new addiction.
> 
> Keeper LOVED it. Me too of course, but I was curious what he'd think. There was essentially no equipment, but we did quite a few exercises. She was getting to know him, a good number of things she usually starts her student doing were things I had already taught him, so I think we'll get to hit the ground running. She usually introduces spinning both ways, going through and coming back out of your legs, nose to hand targets, and some guiding skills that he already had mastered. I'm sure I'll enjoy looking back at my weekly lists of tasks and laughing as we progress!
> 
> Today we:
> -Put 4 feet in a bucket. (Mostly fixing my communication skills.)
> -Put 4 feet on a bucket. (Again, my skills.)
> -Beginning of nose target work, nose to a disk and a release.
> -Beginning "out", guiding him around a trash can on a straight line with the trash can passing between him and I.
> -Cavalettis with a low jump to see his jump style. He's a wild child...
> -Very, very, very beginning of weave poles. She likes to start them early so they don't end up a big deal in the long run.
> 
> Our biggest challenge was keeping his hormones under control! She has an indoor, carpeted facility. So naturally, marking was absolutely first on his mind for the beginning. He was still a little sniffy during slower things, but I'm sure we'll work that out. He was WAY faster and more excited than I expected him to be. It was quite clear that my energy will be a big factor in his performing abilities. I also use WAY too many words.
> 
> He was absolutely exhausted for the hour drive home, and we can't wait until next week!


That's great! Keeper will get better with the marking and sniffies as he understands the game. It just takes time. Agility is VERY addictive and so much fun. Say goodbye to all your money!


----------



## jade5280

Oh I can post here now. I will be starting a beginners agility class with Panzer mid February!


----------



## elrohwen

jade5280 said:


> Oh I can post here now. I will be starting a beginners agility class with Panzer mid February!


Yay!!



Tonight is agility private lesson. I maybe shouldn't bring Watson because of his surgery last week, but whatever. It's not like he's going to fall on his face and it's the smallest surgical site ever. You can't even see it except for the staple. We'll take it easy.

If Hazel is anything like she was last night in obedience, she will be WILD. Maybe we can send her back and forth through a tunnel 20 times and take the edge off. lol She's missing a lot of her group agility class. Last weekend was snowmageddon (which was actually fine here, but I didn't want to drive 1hr 20min away from home and get stuck in a blizzard). This weekend it's cancelled. Next weekend we're doing something else. Lame. My Saturday agility class is probably my favorite class of the week.


----------



## elrohwen

I realized during our lesson last night that I no longer worry about Watson running away. Once or twice he kind of veered off if we were between exercises and walking somewhere, but if I keep transitions good he doesn't leave me in the middle of doing stuff anymore. He used to just run off halfway through whatever we were doing. He also hasn't run off to mark anything. I'm really proud of my little monkey! This off leash thing was such a huge weight on my shoulders for so long. He's also doing his Rally class off leash now, so maybe there is hope for trialing in Rally again some day.

ETA: Also, I'm going to need some solid contact behavior for Hazel, because she is going to fly off of everything and give me a heart attack. We've just started to introduce her to contact equipment (outside of typical puppy stuff) and she is a wild child.


----------



## dogsule

Was just filling out the entry forms for some upcoming trials and there is one in March that has FAST and T2B, so I will get four runs in one day! That is a first for us. Not many trials have T2B and I hadn't entered it at the ones I have been at that had it. I just figured now the more time in the ring at an actual trial the better. The one next month has FAST and I am hoping to get our Novice FAST title. We have only tried it like six times I think and have 2 legs in it so far. Once we get to Open FAST it should be a good challenge but I don't ever see us getting a title in Excellent FAST, unless somehow I can get the hard sends they have in it but not sure we will ever get there.


----------



## Sibe

Bobb in class today. 2nd class, introduced some equipment. Table, hoop, and jump. Bobb can't get up on a table, so I put him on the table and give him treats which is the easiest most fun game he's ever played and he loves it. I love how this gives perspective on how freakin' TINY he is too.


----------



## CptJack

Our instructor is considering a group advanced class. I am not sure if the interest/numbers are going to be there, but I would be so happy if they were. So, so happy. I love my private lessons more than anything, but getting back into a group class with Kylie would be so. much. fun.


----------



## CptJack

There are enough people for TWO sessions of the class! It's a go! We start next Friday for 5 weeks (no class the week before our next trial). More agility! GROUP CLASSES WITH KYLIE AGAIN! MORE ADVANCED HANDLING STUFF!


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> There are enough people for TWO sessions of the class! It's a go! We start next Friday for 5 weeks (no class the week before our next trial). More agility! GROUP CLASSES WITH KYLIE AGAIN! MORE ADVANCED HANDLING STUFF!


Yay! Nice!

I was going to say, I would be surprised if it wouldn't fill. Around here there are waiting lists to get into advanced handling classes.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Yay! Nice!
> 
> I was going to say, I would be surprised if it wouldn't fill. Around here there are waiting lists to get into advanced handling classes.


Yeah, she posted and it took about 10 minutes for about half the people I know to be going "GOD YES PLEASE". I think my club in general is growing and with it the need for more/more advanced classes. It's part of why her private lessons are so busy/relatively difficult to get into. I'm excited as HECK about this. Like, 1-) For the chance to learn new things and work on more advanced stuff but also just to take another agility class with Kylie.


----------



## jade5280

Sibe said:


> Bobb in class today. 2nd class, introduced some equipment. Table, hoop, and jump. Bobb can't get up on a table, so I put him on the table and give him treats which is the easiest most fun game he's ever played and he loves it. I love how this gives perspective on how freakin' TINY he is too.


 OMG stop. He is way too cute.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank had a fun class last night. We dropped in another class session with some awesome dogs who have been trialling for years and Hank held his own! Once we figure out my job stuff (UGH) I want to start trying trialling again. But gotta wait till I figure out what the heck I'm going to be doing for employment in the near future. Grrr industry failure making me change my plans.

He did slide on his face down the A-frame at one point. And he got a down on the table that was AMAZING. I saw him think for a split second and change his mind to down. GOOD BOY. He usually tries to do a hand stand. 

Also it cracks me up. There was two belgians (I didn't know one) but the girl was SO fangy and hilarious. And there's a BC I sorta know but so sweet and responsive. My breed list to own keeps growing....


----------



## So Cavalier

Baxter is having issues with the teeter....Everything else he does is really good and progressing nicely. Sigh....teeter issues....


----------



## kadylady

Skye took her first solo agility trip last weekend. I'm trying not to run Zoey back to back weekends unless necessary, but wanted to get Skye out to this new location and figured it would be good for her to go by herself. She ran 5 runs on Friday, Q'd in all 5! She ran 2 runs Saturday, Q'd in both. She also finished all of level 1 and standard level 2! She did so awesome. And she handled the new location perfectly, totally not phased by it a bit! We do need to work on the teeter more in fast sequences because in trials she is moving so fast and she's hitting it so fast and hard that she has bailed off the side a few times now. I think she just needs to get a feel for and confidence in coming at it with speed. Her weaves for the most part were nice. She has to be restarted when she comes as those too fast too, she hasn't figured out any decel yet lol She is entered in her first AKC trial on Feb 12th! 

Here are her 2 runs from Saturday.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Should be interesting, because I have been ill the past week with a cold, and havent been able to practice, and missed class on thursday, so he and I will probably be rusty.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Skye is SO stinkin' fast! Great runs!

Kairi and I had a really nice day. We did 5 runs and Q'd all 5! We are one game short (Snooker, I hate it) from being in Level 2 everything. 



No video because I went by myself.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Skye is SO stinkin' fast! Great runs!
> 
> Kairi and I had a really nice day. We did 5 runs and Q'd all 5! We are one game short (Snooker, I hate it) from being in Level 2 everything.
> 
> No video because I went by myself.


Excellent!!! Congrats!! I hated snooker at first, but have learned to enjoy it.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

We had someone walk out on "agility league" ( its like a bowling league only with agility). His dog wasnt feeling it that night but even on a good day, it wasnt a dog who was going to be competing at agility, fine, nothing wrong with that. But the more he tried to get excited and encourage his dog, the more he shut down, and he just upped and walked out, saying he was quitting class, and the league, too. :/

Even the trainer was shocked and unsure of what to do.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Pixie and I are starting a new agility class tonight. Because it's at a new club, we have to start over with foundation, and the first night is without dogs. They will probably try to teach me how dogs learn. So that's a bit boring. I suggested to them I could start at a higher level, but they insist everyone has to start in the foundation class, which covers crate games, recalls, etc.

I would have liked to keep training at our old club, but since we moved they're a bit far away and the new club is about 10 km closer.


----------



## elrohwen

lil_fuzzy said:


> Pixie and I are starting a new agility class tonight. Because it's at a new club, we have to start over with foundation, and the first night is without dogs. They will probably try to teach me how dogs learn. So that's a bit boring. I suggested to them I could start at a higher level, but they insist everyone has to start in the foundation class, which covers crate games, recalls, etc.
> 
> I would have liked to keep training at our old club, but since we moved they're a bit far away and the new club is about 10 km closer.


Ugh, that sucks! I'm moving in a few months and I didn't have any issue getting Hazel into a more advanced class that's appropriate for her level. I hate when training clubs make you start from scratch.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Ugh, that sucks! I'm moving in a few months and I didn't have any issue getting Hazel into a more advanced class that's appropriate for her level. I hate when training clubs make you start from scratch.


This is so my number one pet peeve. Test people out or something, but everyone starting from scratch is frustrating as heck. Yeah, yeah, you get to know what the new person knows and some places do things differently, but ergh. Going backward like that is such a waste of time and money, and I know Kylie at least would mentally check OUT if we went back to foundations. 

In Kylie/agility news: Advanced handling classes start Friday and we'll have our private lessons on weekends again (we missed a couple because weather and the trainer had a trial). We also have agility trials coming back up next month which means practices might just return. If I can get back to a three times a week schedule? I will NOT be sorry. I was starting to get stir-crazy.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> This is so my number one pet peeve. Test people out or something, but everyone starting from scratch is frustrating as heck. Yeah, yeah, you get to know what the new person knows and some places do things differently, but ergh. Going backward like that is such a waste of time and money, and I know Kylie at least would mentally check OUT if we went back to foundations.


Yeah, I get that, especially for agility, they may need to figure out exactly where you are. But it's honestly not that hard to describe what level the dog is working out and try to fit them in a class. If it's the wrong class, move them later. 

One place I was looking at (for obedience) will test your dog (basically a CGC test) for $40. Uh, no thanks. At the time Watson didn't have his RN or CGC yet. I wonder if they would waive it now? They are apparently starting up nosework in April, clearly a beginner class, and I predict problems with convincing them that Watson does not need to start as a beginner.


----------



## dogsule

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Skye is SO stinkin' fast! Great runs!
> 
> Kairi and I had a really nice day. We did 5 runs and Q'd all 5! We are one game short (Snooker, I hate it) from being in Level 2 everything.
> 
> 
> 
> No video because I went by myself.


Oh WOW! Congrats!!

Edited to add, Too bad you couldn't find someone that would video you. At our trials there is always someone there willing to video. My daughter used to come and video for me but now that I have to be there before 7AM she doesn't come along. There are usually 2-3 other members of our local Kennel club that are there too though so I can always find someone to video for me.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Skye took her first solo agility trip last weekend. I'm trying not to run Zoey back to back weekends unless necessary, but wanted to get Skye out to this new location and figured it would be good for her to go by herself. She ran 5 runs on Friday, Q'd in all 5! She ran 2 runs Saturday, Q'd in both. She also finished all of level 1 and standard level 2! She did so awesome. And she handled the new location perfectly, totally not phased by it a bit! We do need to work on the teeter more in fast sequences because in trials she is moving so fast and she's hitting it so fast and hard that she has bailed off the side a few times now. I think she just needs to get a feel for and confidence in coming at it with speed. Her weaves for the most part were nice. She has to be restarted when she comes as those too fast too, she hasn't figured out any decel yet lol She is entered in her first AKC trial on Feb 12th!
> 
> Here are her 2 runs from Saturday.


Gosh she looks like she is having a blast! Love how she jumped in your arms after that first run! I wish Belle would be comfortable at trials. Not sure if she is just reading my nerves or what but she is so laid back at trials compared to how she normally is. You would think after a year she would be better. She seems to enjoy it but if she could get her head in the game she would be awesome!!


----------



## CptJack

I did some actual work with Bug tonight - outside - and she did a LOT better than I expected. We did the paw target thing but also worked on some handling with hoops. We even got a pretty cool serp or two in there, which was awesome. 

we're going to have to do some serious work on new reinforcement zones though because she really really really wants to dash ahead of me, and spin around to look me in the face and I really really really don't want either of us to die.

ETA: Oh, and I think I'm going to be able to teach her to weave, pretty easily. Maybe not 12, maybe not off sides or whatever, but more than I expected. She's pretty willing to give me anything I ask for/go where I point her.


----------



## Sibe

*grumbles*
Classes are canceled tomorrow because of the storm. Main roads are ok but side roads and neighborhoods are a mess.









Denali has a trial Friday and Sunday, we're skipping Saturday.


----------



## kadylady

dogsule said:


> Gosh she looks like she is having a blast! Love how she jumped in your arms after that first run! I wish Belle would be comfortable at trials. Not sure if she is just reading my nerves or what but she is so laid back at trials compared to how she normally is. You would think after a year she would be better. She seems to enjoy it but if she could get her head in the game she would be awesome!!


Zoey will never be as comfortable in the trial environment as Skye is....even though she's been doing it longer. Zoey is very sensitive to her environment. She's very aware of everything around her. It's just how she is. She manages because I've taught her how, but I don't think she will ever fully be able to tune out the environment. Skye on the other hand....is not environmentally sensitive at all. It could be because she was introduced to the crazy show environments at a young age (she was coming with us to trials at 4 months old) and that she's used to working with me in all different environments, she's been used as my demo dog in teaching classes from 12 weeks old, she been exposed and worked in a lot of different environments....But I suspect part of it is just her natural inclination to work and that has turned into the love of the game. Bar setters and moving judges were a big deal to Zoey. It took Skye 3 trials to notice there was a judge in the ring with us. Just different dogs.

In other news....Skye has decided the teeter is BADBADBAD. So, we have gone all the way back to the beginning with tables on each end. And not making progress as fast as I had hoped. I have a lesson setup with my coach to work on it together this weekend. In the mean time we are doing lots of different wobble board/movement type activities to build her confidence back up. Ugh! Super frustrating, but being reminded that yes she is still a baby dog. On the plus side, she's totally rocking 12 weaves. With minimal practice.

I ran her on one of the courses in Zoey's class this week and she did really awesome.







Also, Zoey got to work with someone else in one of the agility classes that I teach last night. A regular client of ours had her dog spayed last week so I told her to still come to class this week and she could use one of my dogs. Zoey knows her a little and loves her dog so I thought she might work with her but I wasn't sure. Zoey did totally awesome with her! Stayed with her and worked happily with her the whole time! Made me so happy. Zoey would have never done that a few years ago. I was super proud of her.

Good luck this weekend Sibe!


----------



## sydneynicole

I have a baby dog so I also have baby things to add to this thread.. Oliver now whines with excitement and scratches at the window with his little nub going 100mph when we pull into the training facility. He doesn't even do that when we go to the dog park, and the dog park is one of his favorite things. I'm happy that he loves it so much already and we haven't even really started yet.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie and I started our advanced class tonight and it was seriously so much fun. We mostly all know each other, the dogs are of varying levels but all but 1 is competing and it was just really, really... nice. We worked on some 'tights' and tight switches (which... don't even ask me to explain, it will take me half of eternity unless I draw diagrams) and some stuff for chances and Kylie managed to get her A-frame contact back and just generally did well and had fun.

I will say, though, that is one of the LOUDER classes I've been in


----------



## CptJack

sydneynicole said:


> I have a baby dog so I also have baby things to add to this thread.. Oliver now whines with excitement and scratches at the window with his little nub going 100mph when we pull into the training facility. He doesn't even do that when we go to the dog park, and the dog park is one of his favorite things. I'm happy that he loves it so much already and we haven't even really started yet.


I admit full well Kylie going prancy paws and yowling when we get near the agility field is my favorite part of the whole thing. She just gets *SO* excited! You can't help but love the sport when the dog goes ape for it.


----------



## sydneynicole

CptJack said:


> I admit full well Kylie going prancy paws and yowling when we get near the agility field is my favorite part of the whole thing. She just gets *SO* excited! You can't help but love the sport when the dog goes ape for it.


Exactly! As if it wasn't addicting enough already, now I can justify my obsession with the fact that Oli loves it too.


----------



## CptJack

sydneynicole said:


> Exactly! As if it wasn't addicting enough already, now I can justify my obsession with the fact that Oli loves it too.


Oh yeah.

My journey with agility has been so weird. When I first started, I started as deeply apathetic and even mildly (LOL - more than mildly) disliking it. It made me feel stupid, I didn't know anyone so I was uncomfortable with the people and I primarily did it because Kylie needed something to do and some confidence building. *SHE* wasn't even in love with it. She was mostly doing it to humor me, I was doing it because it was good for her and we were both kind of 'meh' about it. 

But at some point, man. The dog caught on to the game as a game and came alive, and once that happened *I* got bitten by the bug, hard. At this stage, it's not even just because she loves it. That's the best part, by far and away. Her loving it is the reason I love it, honestly, but there's also just. I don't know, this community there that I adore, and it's somehow built MY confidence. It's exercise and a game, and socializing with dog people and just everything rolled up into one. 

It's. Perfect.


----------



## Sibe

Had an _awesome_ trial today! Really small NADAC trial, being on a Friday. The biggest brags I have are 1) I saw no major signs of stress from Denali today! She didn't stress out of the weaves, she didn't have any big stress sniffing, and the couple times she did sniff I'm 99% sure were because of the actual smells and I got her back very easily. 2) She ran happy! Related to the no big stress, but seriously she was *so happy* and relaxed today.

Now the shiny brags:

She Q'd in both Open Touch and Go runs! 1st place in both.
Run #1 was fantastic, broke her start line which she has *NEVER* done in her life so a little stumble of a start, and later a quick "hang on I think a horse pooped over here" but everything else was just amazing. https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102618792396033/
Run #2, again fantastic. She runs so happy! Had a good call off a tunnel. So many tunnels in these TnG runs. https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102618794347123/

She Q'd in Novice Regular! 1st place, and Novice title! I was worried about the start. Straight hoop into weaves. I set her a little angled to the hoop to get a little bit of a curve into the weaves, and really kept myself slow to help her decelerate and not get too much momentum from the start to begin with. It worked! We have really struggled with her stressing out of the weaves in trials so I'm thrilled that she nailed it.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102618806981803/

She'd Q'd in Novice Jumpers! 2nd place, and Novice title! No video on that one as it was the very last run of the day, all the elite/open people were gone... we were our own ring crew and jump setters. She ran is perfectly.


----------



## CptJack

Go Denali - and you! Only the TNG run was showing but she looks great, and you guys are *really* moving along!


----------



## kadylady

Congrats Sibe and Denali!! I could only see the first video as well, but she was really moving! Nice!!


----------



## Sibe

Thanks! And whoops, forgot to make the other two Public. Try again and they should work


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

I am finally going to get some jumps made so I can practice at home now, yay!


----------



## CptJack

I have jumps in a box in my living room that I need to assemble. Will probably bother about the time my weaves show up. Am actually considering buying a lot just to use as an agility field. IDEK what's wrong with me.

So. Today's private was largely unremarkable, I guess. 

I need to work on practicing lateral distance with Kylie on contacts, we did some weaves stuff (BRIEFLY - she did good weaves twice, we stopped), did some discriminations that were harder (and frankly *strange*), did a jumpers course where I actually got my front cross in and did not fail all over the place (and was not terrified and did not forget the course, all remarkable for me with jumpers). Of course more work with distance and some weird/difficult discriminations. 

The big thing for me is I really, really, need to work on mapping MY Path with distance work instead of just worrying about drawing the dog's. That's going to take some doing. I don't know why that's so hard for me, but apparently it is.


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> Thanks! And whoops, forgot to make the other two Public. Try again and they should work


I got to see them all, great job!!


----------



## CptJack

I was going to wait until our 'home' trial at the very end of April/May 1st before I ran elite regular. 

I signed up to do ONE run in the trial after next (and it's the weekend after our next). Nooooot sure that was the best idea I've ever had, but I needed one more run that day, so. We'll see!


----------



## Sibe

4 of 6 Qs today! Missed both Regular runs (weave poles, everything else was great). First two novice Chances runs we Q'd and got 1st in both, first two novice Tunnelers runs (FINALLY!!!! It was as fun as I wanted it to be) also Q'd and got 1st in both.
No videos of Chances, here was first ever Tunnelers run.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102621881270903/?pnref=story


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> 4 of 6 Qs today! Missed both Regular runs (weave poles, everything else was great). First two novice Chances runs we Q'd and got 1st in both, first two novice Tunnelers runs (FINALLY!!!! It was as fun as I wanted it to be) also Q'd and got 1st in both.
> No videos of Chances, here was first ever Tunnelers run.
> https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102621881270903/?pnref=story


Congrats, awesome job! That tunnelers course looks fun, wish AKC had something like that!


----------



## Sibe

Yay pictures! Like I said, she was running so happy.



























From Ken Gee Photography
http://kengeephoto.photoreflect.com/store/ThumbPage.aspx?e=9765553&g=03PG00CN0R

Edit
One more from another photographer, happy dance!








http://dougburnsphotography.zenfolio.com/


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

Last thursday was supposed to be group class, but no one showed up, so it was just me  on one hand that's great, because we get more course time, OTOH, it sucks because next group class he doesnt like to wait LOL.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

dogsule said:


> Congrats, awesome job! That tunnelers course looks fun, wish AKC had something like that!


Lincoln would LOVE that! tunnels are his favorite!


----------



## Kyllobernese

My sister and I have decided to do Agility practice with our two dogs on Mondays this month as our first trial is March 4/5. There are just the two of us so we only take up a half hour. We also go on Wednesdays for an hour and Saturdays for two hours as there are usually four more dogs those days. We have been really concentrating on handling as the dogs have all competed but we need more training.

We set up different courses all the time, usually not full courses but a series of obstacles to practice our front, rear and blind crosses.


----------



## dogsule

Sibe....love that third shot, beautiful!!


----------



## Sibe

Bobb learned the tunnel!
https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/1032201680151244/

Bobb learned the tire! As mentioned on my facebook descroption, it's quite a leap for him so we won't be practicing anything similar at home, as we don't want too much impact on his front leg. He's fine doing it in class 
https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/vb.924990094205737/1032204916817587/?type=2&theater


----------



## elrohwen

Bobb is the best thing ever.


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> Bobb learned the tunnel!
> https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/1032201680151244/
> 
> Bobb learned the tire! As mentioned on my facebook descroption, it's quite a leap for him so we won't be practicing anything similar at home, as we don't want too much impact on his front leg. He's fine doing it in class
> https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/vb.924990094205737/1032204916817587/?type=2&theater


That is awesome!!


----------



## CptJack

So, looks like Bug's classes will start basically June. Which is a long time, but the cycle classes are running here and fine. It's especially find since I am having to do MAJOR un-training with her. Not anything directly, obviously agility related? She's fine with obstacles and commands. The issue comes between obstacles, where she tries very, very hard to dash in front of me, so she can spin around and stare me in the face. Me being in front of her isn't good enough, and I know exactly where this habit comes from and why (namely that it's easiest for her to know what I want and i encouraged it - for years) but man. Things not to teach future dogs, ever.


----------



## sydneynicole

CptJack said:


> So, looks like Bug's classes will start basically June. Which is a long time, but the cycle classes are running here and fine. It's especially find since I am having to do MAJOR un-training with her. Not anything directly, obviously agility related? She's fine with obstacles and commands. The issue comes between obstacles, where she tries very, very hard to dash in front of me, so she can spin around and stare me in the face. Me being in front of her isn't good enough, and I know exactly where this habit comes from and why (namely that it's easiest for her to know what I want and i encouraged it - for years) but man. Things not to teach future dogs, ever.


This is already a problem I have with Oli, too. In his puppy class the instructor had us practice a 'look' command by turning away and waiting for them to come to the front of us and give eye contact. Now, Oli tends to try to get in front of me whenever he has a few seconds he isn't directly doing something, or doesn't know what to do. Which is often because we're in the baby phases. Running + small dog running towards your feet = not good lol.


----------



## CptJack

sydneynicole said:


> This is already a problem I have with Oli, too. In his puppy class the instructor had us practice a 'look' command by turning away and waiting for them to come to the front of us and give eye contact. Now, Oli tends to try to get in front of me whenever he has a few seconds he isn't directly doing something, or doesn't know what to do. Which is often because we're in the baby phases. Running + small dog running towards your feet = not good lol.


Yeah. Had I known I intended to do agility with her at any point I would have encouraged more work BESIDE me, but I didn't and 

She's deaf. 

Which means all communication to her comes visually. Which means she has to see me. So her natural tendency to get in front of me worked for a long time but it's got to go now, and it's going to be a whole lot of work with reinforcement zones to get there. A lot of it's just going to be experience though (and probably with Oli, too), wherein they learned to get a little bit of obstacle focus and confidence and therefore more willing to get off your/my ankles. 

And experience in learning that every obstacle/command isn't isolated - that there is a NEXT and not to come in for food. 

Meanwhile, here's hoping for minimal stepping. I stepped on KYLIE at our last trial. It's horrifying.


----------



## Sibe

Denali was so brave today and I'm so proud of her! We went to the AKC Rocky Mountain Cluster / Denver Dog Show. This was a 3 ring agility trial, with 3 judges. It was crowded and busy. Her EXC JWW course she had some nerves, missed her first jump after a tunnel and halfway through the course refused a jump and needed to stress sniff, but the rest was great including... her weaves!!!! She did 12 weaves at a trial!!!! The in EXC Standard she had another refusal/stress sniff early, but once I got her back she again got the weaves and the rest of the run was fantastic (she even said hi to the judge, which makes me happy that she had the confidence to do so.

Then her first ever FAST run. I honestly have no idea how much time I was allowed. I picked out a course and didn't care if I was under or over by much, it felt like a good course. I deliberately skipped the set of 6 poles because she'd already weaved twice today. Check out how close the judge is to the A-frame on the downside, I was looking straight across at her. See how Denali looks at her but then finishes it and keep going. This could not have happened a year ago. I'm glad we've been having people on course in class doing these kinds of things to her.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10102629623924563

Map, highlighted our path (there is nothing under the sticker).


----------



## kadylady

We did some AKC agility on Friday, Skye's first AKC trial. Zoey was entered in Preferred for the first time too. Zoey had a nice JWW run, she popped out of the weaves once but then finished nice. She picked up her very first Excellent Preferred Q in Standard! Which means perfect weaves!! She was a bit slow in her Standard run but we got it done in time. Very proud of her. AKC + Weaves has been our Achilles heel for quite a while.

Here's Zoey's runs.





Skye....we started with a disastrous Standard run. She was way high from hanging out in the crate all day long waiting for novice to come around (CPE she doesn't have to wait til the end of the day to run) and we had a lot of disconnect. We've been working through some teeter issues and I should have just passed it right by with her being so high, but I let her do it and she did it too fast and scared herself again, which caused her to later refuse the dog walk. Was feeling like a pretty bad handler after that run. We slightly redeemed ourselves with a much better JWW run and picked up her first AKC Q. I got a lot of information on where we are at and what we need to continue working on, most importantly the teeter and getting her to understand she has to slow down on it.

Here's her JWW run.


----------



## dogsule

So I learned yesterday that in AKC agility there is another title in between the Excellent titles and your MACH, didn't realize that there was a masters title first and then the MACH. 10 Q's in Masters std and jww and you get an MX and an MXJ before your MACH. 

Kadylady, nice runs - congrats!!

We have a trial this weekend. Hoping for some titles. Going Saturday and Sunday. We need one more leg in Novice FAST which we will run on Saturday. Also need one more leg in Excellent Std which we will run both days and two more legs in Excellent Jumpers which we will run both days. Would be awesome if we got all three titles but I highly doubt that will happen. Belle is going through a distracted phase it seems. Never quite know what she will do lately. Oh well, still having fun!!


----------



## elrohwen

Last night we started some sequencing and handling with Hazel. She is so fast and I am so screwed. Like, BC fast. I led out at least 30-50ft, and I still barely had time to think about what I was doing before she was on me and then past me. She's a ton of fun, and she's going to teach me a lot about handling. Still doing bars on the ground or 8", so she's just running all out.

She also seems to be going through a weird fear period thing, which makes sense for her age. She just noticed that the teeter tips (this is maybe her 4th time on it? still controlling the tip and everything). So that freaked her out a bit, and then transferred to the dog walk, but she got over it. I love how resilient she is. She notices things, and checks them out, but pretty quickly decides they're fine and moves on.

Watson was in a weird mood, maybe because it was so windy. Or because Hazel went first for a change and was banging the teeter while he was crated. Took a while to get him focused and unstressed, but then he had a lot of fun doing the same little sequence Hazel did. He was even running! Then he got stressed out again for some reason (because I cued something wrong and we reset?) and slowed way down. Poor little dude. I'm going to go back to running him first, and then maybe put him in the car during Hazel's turn.


----------



## Sibe

I don't want to spam pics every week, so here's an album of Bobb's agility class on his FB page and I'll not put so many here 
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1036254156412663.1073741832.924990094205737&type=3

We did a longer Tunnel today, learned the Chute (not to fully closed yet), and practiced sending out around an object. He got to "out" around a tunnel sandbag, a sideways jump wing, and my favorite... a paper towel roll.


















I think I probably set him poorly for this jump. He really made an enormous leap, so I must have not set him far enough back for him to get a good stride before hopping. 









I SERIOUSLY CAN'T EVEN.


----------



## CptJack

I keep wanting to update you all on what we're doing right now, but I feel like I need a whiteboard and at least a couple of colors of dry erase marker to manage. And the result would look like some cross between a treasure map drawn by a 3 year old and a football play drawn by someone who's never watched football. 

It's not that it's hard, per se, or complicated. It's that every time I explain what I'm trying to teach the dog/do, I stop talking and wave my hands around and that just doesn't translate to text. 

So that thing is what we're working on.

And also still with distance stuff. Which is a lot more explainable.


----------



## Sibe

Denali has been working distance in class, and getting really good! Our NADAC Chances run was eye opening for me that she can do distance and be good at it. Yesterday in class we layered the weaves which was huge for me, I was on the opposite side of the dogwalk and she was out there doing weaves beautifully. I need to trust my dog. She knows this, she can and more importantly _will_ do this. 

Pics from the massive show in Denver, from Ken Gee Photography http://kengeephoto.photoreflect.com/store/ThumbPage.aspx?e=9771016&g=03PG00CO3X









"Feet."


















The photo site accidentally had a few Samoyed shots mixed with hers. I let him know, and he's sending me a 4x6 of the chute pic. Great photographer! Gotta laugh at the DW pics, it's like her coat exploded on the top of it haha.


----------



## elrohwen

Haha, I love the identical shots of Denali and the samy. So cute.

And Bobb is too much. What an awesome little dude.


----------



## CptJack

This class is hard, y'all. 

Good hard, challenging me hard, but holy CRAP there are things I need to learn. Also things I need to teach Kylie but mostly that *I* need to learn. Building lateral distance, figuring out my own path, just - stuff.

I guess the good news is I'm now doing more kinds of crosses instead of auto-defaulting to rears, her discriminations are stellar (even hoop/hoop touching each other) and her A-frame contact is cleaned up. But I really need to build lateral distance with her and I really, REALLY need to figure out how to draw my own path effectively when handling distance.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Since last fall we have been working on handling, front, rear and blind crosses, threadles, etc. Remmy is really starting to look at me for directions. Poor dog never knew which directions I was going to wave my arms and I had a bad habit of just using my right arm. Hopefully it will show up in a better performance in our trial the beginning of March. He had over a year of no Agility while I was getting my legs operated on and seems really happy to be back doing it again. I am working on Kris as well but won't be taking her to this trial as we are staying in a Motel so I will have Remmy and my sister will have her Rat Terrier, Ecko. It is an indoor trial and it will be easier taking her and my other Shih Tzu x Maltese with me when we are camping out for the rest of the trials this year.


----------



## CptJack

I have issues with crosses. It isn't that I can't do them, it's that I am only now starting to see where different ones might work better as opposed to 'let's just get through the course/pick a random one to try or default to rears'. I need smoother runs than I sometimes get, period, but mostly being able to think of and use different crosses is new. 

And I have some strange, strange, mental block with front crosses where if I JUST DO IT, I'm okay? But if I think about them too hard I can't do them at all. It's like muscle memory works there, but my brain does not.


----------



## Kyllobernese

As I had no formal training or groundwork when I first started with Remmy. I learned so many bad habits. Remmy did so well despite my handicapping him that I always wonder how good he would have been with a good trainer as he loves running Agility. Just before he had the year off he had started to do zoomies at the trials and I know it was because of my lack of direction. As I was not making it clear to him where I wanted him to go, he decided to go whatever way he felt like. That is why I have not been able to get his last two Advanced Snooker Q's even though he is in Masters in everything else. Hopefully this will be his year especially now that I can run with him again.


----------



## kadylady

Did some CPE agility this weekend at a new place. Zoey hadn't run on turf since last April, Skye's first time on turf. Took Zoey up on Friday morning and ran 2 classes. She did decent but was too slow to make time. She wanted to sniff so bad, she wasn't but I think that's why she was so slow. New locations are stressful for her so even though she was slower I was happy with how she did.

Skye went on Saturday and did awesome her first time on turf. And holy crap, the turf makes her even faster!! Our first run was absolutely amazing and she was booking it. She Q'd in 3 out of 5 classes, the 2 she didn't Q in were 2 rounds of Standard and we skipped the teeter in both (still having some teeter issues, so skipping it in trials until she's more confident). Really happy with how she did at the new location on the new surface. She got a little sniffy at times but overall stayed focused and worked well. Still trying to figure out my timing and handling with her, sometimes she's doing big dog stuff and sending way out to stuff without much help and I can get in fronts or blinds, other times she still needs a lot of support and I have to stick closer and end up with more rear crosses. Also trying to run faster lol 

Here's a couple of Skye's runs. I keep watching the first Jumpers run over and over. I'm in love with it lol. 





This week we are headed down to Ohio with a friend for a big AKC trial on dirt, leaving Thursday night, trialing Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Same location as CPE Nationals so we are going for Zoey to get experience in that location. Will be Skye's first time trialing on dirt. Very much looking forward to a whole weekend away with my girls and my bff and lots of agility.


----------



## elrohwen

Skye is flying! She definitely look like she's getting faster and faster as time goes on.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Did some CPE agility this weekend at a new place. Zoey hadn't run on turf since last April, Skye's first time on turf. Took Zoey up on Friday morning and ran 2 classes. She did decent but was too slow to make time. She wanted to sniff so bad, she wasn't but I think that's why she was so slow. New locations are stressful for her so even though she was slower I was happy with how she did.
> 
> Skye went on Saturday and did awesome her first time on turf. And holy crap, the turf makes her even faster!! Our first run was absolutely amazing and she was booking it. She Q'd in 3 out of 5 classes, the 2 she didn't Q in were 2 rounds of Standard and we skipped the teeter in both (still having some teeter issues, so skipping it in trials until she's more confident). Really happy with how she did at the new location on the new surface. She got a little sniffy at times but overall stayed focused and worked well. Still trying to figure out my timing and handling with her, sometimes she's doing big dog stuff and sending way out to stuff without much help and I can get in fronts or blinds, other times she still needs a lot of support and I have to stick closer and end up with more rear crosses. Also trying to run faster lol
> 
> Here's a couple of Skye's runs. I keep watching the first Jumpers run over and over. I'm in love with it lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This week we are headed down to Ohio with a friend for a big AKC trial on dirt, leaving Thursday night, trialing Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Same location as CPE Nationals so we are going for Zoey to get experience in that location. Will be Skye's first time trialing on dirt. Very much looking forward to a whole weekend away with my girls and my bff and lots of agility.


Great looking runs! Congrats! Good luck this week!!


----------



## dogsule

Ok all in all we had a good weekend but just once I would like to go to a trial and not have Belle have an issue with something! This weekend (both days!) for whatever reason she didn't like the weaves. She never has problems with the weaves. Someone commented that there was a freshly painted piece where the two sets go together. I have no idea if this was her issue or not, didn't bother any other dogs. She never tried to sniff anything there but when she would start the weaves on Saturday she would stall and do this weird thing with her mouth, like she was going to possibly throw up!?? Both runs, jumpers and std she did this. I have no clue! Sunday in jumpers she went through slowly but didn't do the weird thing. Then in Standard she stopped again and then started shaking her head and pulled out but I managed to not let her screw them up. I have no clue what the heck was up.

Both of her jumpers runs (Sat & Sun) were nicely flowing (except the weaves) and both of them I messed up! Saturday I got to one point and it was three jumps (one offset) then a tunnel and the last jump, I got there and totally forgot where I was going, like I just blanked! So of course we missed a jump. Hard to think when you are running like that! Ugh! Sundays run there were three jumps in a row then a tunnel straight ahead but you had to make a hard left to another jump before the tunnel. Belle was going fast and got ahead of me and I called her way too soon and pulled her off the third jump. 

Standard on Saturday was a sniff fest with Belle, bad weaves too! She was running toward a jump, stopped to sniff something and got a fault. Rest was clean though. Sunday's Standard was clean (almost lost it in the weaves) but sort of slow to start. We managed a Q though which got us a new title. She is now in Masters Standard! No time for goofing around now, somehow I have to get her to focus better.

Then there was Novice FAST on Saturday where Belle pulled her stop on the top of the A frame trick. The send portion was the A frame and then a jump. Finally she came down and did the jump after the A frame but geesh! She got her Q in FAST and a new title so will now be in Open Fast. 

I will post the videos in a bit, would like some feedback.

IMG_8077ff by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## CptJack

I was just coming here to grip that Kylie's weaves fall apart if I look at them funny. Or, rather, if anything about the equipment changes at. all. I have spent 2 days getting her used to the new set at home. 

Which, for the record, is exactly like the set she uses at trials and practices. Except at home. And therefore weird. We're apparently going back to twice a day weaving sessions for her meals - really short sessions where she runs through both directions and stops. 

I just. Just. 

DOG.


----------



## ireth0

So... depending on how things work out, we may be doing agility foundations in April. Eeep.


----------



## Laurelin

Ok finally getting back on track with this agility thing now that I have a job for sure. If life would stop being stressful that'd be great.


----------



## dogsule

So this is Belle's Jumpers run from Saturday. Started the run out well, weaves started slow then seemed to pick up and then in the middle (where that piece is) she started with the weird thing with her mouth but she finished it anyway. Watch for when we get up in the upper right corner for the second time. I totally forgot where I was going at the jump before you see my try to go in two directions at once. Ugh, so could have been a Q. Oh well darn handler! 
Not sure how well this will show on a phone, can see good on the computer but on my camera I couldn't see anything as it wasn't zoomed in quite enough.






So this is my jumpers run on Sunday. Same person flimed it for me. I asked her to zoom in a bit more when we were in the back so of course trying to be funny she zoomed in too much for the whole thing. I wouldn't care as much but I would have liked to see when I messed it up better. I think Belle got ahead of me and I called her right at the yellow jump when I should have waited until she was at the next jump cause it pulled her away from the jump. Sort of hard to watch this because she zoomed in so much. Her weaves weren't terrible here but not great either. Again handler error!


----------



## dogsule

This is Belle's Standard run from Sunday, check out those weaves, gosh that was a mess! Lots of head shaking going on too. Oddly she isn't doing it at all anymore. She wasn't real quick but came in at 64.38 and course time was 65






This was the standard run from Saturday. Missed the first jump on the video, she took it fine of course but then it picks up just after she stopped to smell the tape on the floor. Which she does again after the jump after the teeter and then you will see the judge call her fault when we come back around to that jump again. Weaves were horrible!






Then this is the FAST run....ugh nice stop on top of the A frame, huh??


----------



## CptJack

ALL THE LEVELS. 

I may be in Open Jumpers by then. Depends on the trial the week before. I ran Jumpers for the first time at our last trial and got 1 Q, so I only need 2 more.


----------



## jade5280

Our first agility class went really well. I was expecting some hesitation with some of the equipment, but Panzer went right ahead without me even asking haha. He seemed to really like it. We went through a low hoop, a tunnel, A frame, platform, and teeter.


----------



## dogsule

Agility class Monday night. Belles weaves were awesome!! Ran fast and I even had plenty of distance from her and she never pulled out. Ran like she was having a blast through the whole course. Why can this not happen at trials??


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Agility class Monday night. Belles weaves were awesome!! Ran fast and I even had plenty of distance from her and she never pulled out. Ran like she was having a blast through the whole course. Why can this not happen at trials??


Because you're nervous  Probably. Might also experiment with seeing if you can find people to play judge and ring crew, too.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Because you're nervous  Probably. Might also experiment with seeing if you can find people to play judge and ring crew, too.


We have done the judge/ring crew thing and she never seems to have any issues. This last trial there was no sniffing of people, the one before there was though but in Belle's defense as the judge was counting down for the pause table he was walking towards her and I think it just freaked her out and then she decided she liked him. LOL!

I know my nervousness plays a part in it but the weaves were the least of my worries as she never has problems with them. It always seems that whatever I worry about, she has no issues with but what I don't worry about is what she has issues with. I do think the weaves most likely had something to do with that new piece they had on there even though she never stopped to sniff it at all. I somehow wonder if the new paint smell (which I could not smell but I am sure she could) was the issue. She made these funny motions with her mouth when she entered the weaves, that is all I can think of. 

I just would love to have a nice looking run, where she doesn't do something totally weird. Wide turns, slow on the teeter yeah I can deal with that but stopping on the A frame and the weaves...no, please no!! lol


----------



## Sibe

Bobb learned the teeter today. Our instructor, Meldona, is laughing as he's waving his nub at her- it was the first thing I ever taught him so it's a default behavior for him to offer. The table is under the low end, so that dogs only have to go down a couple inches on the high end (Bobb is kinda facing the wrong way here). Great way to teach the teeter, builds confidence! Bobb loved it.









We also did the Dogwalk today, set as low as it will go which is about 3' tall. After doing some end behavior work which we were laughing about and calling "1 on 1 off" for Bobb we had them go across the full DW. Bobb's first time was great, Meldona was on one side of it and I was on the other, leash short, giving treats all along the way, with hands near him and ready to block/catch. He didn't wobble or stumble at all. Second time was running down the entire DW with a treat at the end. HOLY CUSS Bobb took off and flew down it- again leash short and hand there to block/catch- but man that boy just flew and I could barely keep up.

This will be the only time he ever does the DW. [Un]fortunately (I say fortunate because I really don't need a video like that going around and people freaking out that it's too dangerous, we let him do what he safely can and that's it) he took off so fast that the video is of an empty board as he was already at the end by the time my mom was able to catch up. He is so enthusiastic that he's not thinking about his feet or balance, and we'd never do anything taller anyway. From here on out, all we'll be doing is an end behavior. For the teeter I'll lean it down, set him on the end, give treats, then hold it down as he hops off. For the DW I'll set him no higher than the top of the contact zone. Probably won't be doing any A-frame.

We knew coming in that Bobb wouldn't be doing fullsize contacts but he can still learn parts like an end behavior safely and not have to do the entire obstacle.


----------



## CptJack

AW BOBB! 

Seriously, I'm betting this is good for him both physically and mentally and I love that you decided to do it. 

Also speaking of dogs and weaves? 

Kylie's are back. For now. LOL.


----------



## Sibe

Go Kylie!!!

Bobb has done a lot of work to be physically ready. We still go to physical therapy, down to once a month now, and we do his PT exercises twice a day almost every day. His back leg and core are sooooo much stronger now than they were when we started PT at the end of August. His balance, flexibility, endurance, strength, have all drastically improved and best of all his spine and back are a lot better. He had quite an arch in his back, and his spine curved, from trying to balance. His back had a lot of trigger points, and his hip muscles were very tight. That all had to be helped and stay better before we could consider agility. He couldn't even swim at first because he was so tight and sore. Mentally, this dog is as smart as he is cute. He learns new things very easily and quickly and is loving the agility exercises. I can see him running appropriate courses in trials like NADAC Hoopers and Tunnelers, and I know Teacup agility has an exhibitor thing. Big question is if they will allow him, as a biped. I can always ask for a letter of approval from his rehab team if I need to


----------



## CptJack

I swear to god I have managed to accidentally enter Kylie as a dog who jumps 4" more than her actual 8" jump height. Because she is BARELY squeaking into 12" regular with 8" skilled, and the decimal keeps getting overlooked by either my husband typing the form or the club secretaries. I'm almost tempted to let it go except it'd feel like cheating and she *won't jump 4"*. 

She's gon to have to eventually but for now - I guess I'll just keep being a pest. Oops.


----------



## elrohwen

I'm so amazed and thrilled with all you've done with Bobb. What an inspiration!


----------



## Sibe

Oh and I also ran a friend's dog today. Owner is in Australia on vacation, but had someone bring her dog. I've never run a BC, and this guy gets wound up and bitey. I've seen enough of him to know when to stop before he gets too crazy. We start about 20 seconds in, took me a bit to get him lined up. He ran great for me, we did two courses, twice on each.





And a video of Bobb doing the teeter ^.^


----------



## Laurelin

I have reliable ring rentals! Not all equipment because it's an obedience place but omg. We need to work on working without reward. He knows the agility. So excite! $25/hr not too bad either.


----------



## CptJack

I'm getting an A-frame! 

A real one! For like 100.00! 

...I have to rearrange my yard, clear more space and do lots of work associated with this, but man. Real contact equipment. At home. Real weaves at home. The world is mine.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I'm getting an A-frame!
> 
> A real one! For like 100.00!
> 
> ...I have to rearrange my yard, clear more space and do lots of work associated with this, but man. Real contact equipment. At home. Real weaves at home. The world is mine.


Awesome, I have no clue where I would put one if I had one as far as storage. I have plenty of space in the yard but wouldn't want to leave it out there.


----------



## dogsule

So last night I went to our building to practice a little bit. Just set up some jumps, the weaves, the teeter and a tunnel. Belles weaves were awesome so I thought I would see if she would do them if I sat her on one end and I went to the other and told her to weave. Wasn't sure if she would do it or not but I thought I would film it with my phone just in case. First try she did it! Second one too, then she had three just run down next to it at me and then she did it again. I didn't try it anymore. Here is the video (just on my flickr page)

https://flic.kr/p/EskXcS


----------



## Kyllobernese

Belle did great. When I started weaves with Lucy we did the channel method. Since I am such a bad "thrower", I would get her to sit and stay, walk down to the other end with her toy, then walk back and tell her weave and she would weave to the end. When the weaves were completely closed she would still to it. This is the way they taught it in the class. When I started doing it at home, I had to also "retrain" her to do the weaves with me running alongside as that is what you normally have to do on a course, not often you send them off on their own. It did give her great independent weaves from any direction and distance.


----------



## dogsule

Planning on going to class tonight, the one hour away one. Moved wrong this morning I guess and pulled something in my back. Ugh! Took some advil and it is manageable now, hoping it is better by this evening so I can still go.


----------



## kadylady

Finally have time to upload my videos after this past weekend. We had such a great weekend! So much fun and the girls totally exceeded my expectations in the new location on dirt. Trial was a 2 ring trial in a big horse arena down in southern Ohio, Skye's first time on dirt, Zoey's 3rd time, same location where CPE Nationals will be held, we stayed 3 nights in a hotel. Zoey did much better in the hotel this time, it really helped having my friend and her dogs there.

Friday, Zoey nailed her Open FAST run, no sniffing, nice and fast and a Q! I kept it easy for her and didn't do weaves to build her confidence in the new location. Second run was Excellent Standard and we had to reset the weaves once, other than that, really nice run. Saturday I put weaves in our Open FAST course and it took 3 tries to get them, so we ran out of time and didn't get to the bonus. In Standard she started really nice and then started blowing my off, running around obstacles, by the time we got to the weaves she decided she wasn't weaving…so I carried her off the course, no cookies and she went back into her crate. And had to watch Skye come out and get to play and get lots of cookies. Sunday in Standard she ran really really nice and we only had one reset at the weaves. In JWW she ran beautifully, I handled beautifully and she nailed the weaves on the first try and picked up our first Excellent Preferred JWW Q! Really great weekend for her. New places are hard for her and dirt is hard for her. I was actually glad to have the opportunity to carry her off at the weaves, because that's still an issue for us and she still has to be reminded that no weaves = no play. And clearly it gets the point across for her. Also, she made time in all both of her standard runs where we had a reset the weaves, which is huge for her! We struggle with making time without having to spend time reseting the weaves, so that was a testament to how fast she was moving for her. I'm also much less nervous about CPE Nationals now that we have been to that location. Overall I was really proud of how she ran.

Skye ran like a big dog. She was totally not phased at all by the big arena or the 2 rings or the dirt. When we practiced in dirt a couple weeks ago she was a sniffing machine and we really struggled to connect. She stopped to sniff once all weekend!! Once and totally reconnected right away! Friday she had a really nice Novice JWW run, despite my super late handling mistakes. We had an off course when I pulled off a jump too soon otherwise it was a decent run. Our standard runs were practiced runs because I was skipping the teeter (still working through teeter issues) except for when she decided to do it anyway on Saturday! It didn't seem to freak her out as much but I still didn't want her doing it. So I pulled from our Standard run on Sunday just to avoid any bad experiences from happening. Her JWW run on Saturday she still put up with some poor handling but she got her weaves on the first try (thanks to me not stopping expecting her to miss them) and we had a clean run for a Q! Sunday her JWW run I handled much better and we had a great run for a Q to finish Novice JWW! I am so proud of how she ran and handled the whole weekend! She's such a super star!! 

Here's some video highlights (if anyone is really interested in watching all the runs they are on my youtube page).

Zoey's runs from Sunday.





Skye's JWW runs.





And picture at the end of the weekend with our ribbons!


----------



## dogsule

Awesome weekend kadylady! Skye is really fast!!


----------



## CptJack

We have a Show 'n Go this weekend. I'm going to try really hard to get some video, at least. Don't know how it will go, but I'm going to try. Next weekend is our Disc Seminar, then there's a blank week (I'll do a lesson anyway, since we'll no longer have classes either, if lessons are offered) and then our first back-to-back trial weekends. Kind of looking forward to seeing how those go. If not badly I may actually start doing a little bit of traveling to add a few more next year.

Meanwhile, A-frame and weaves at home are really, really, helping us.


----------



## dogsule

Went to class last night (hour away one) and Belle was such an good girl. She listened so well and was very happy the whole time, tail just a wagging. I treated her like crazy throughout everything, even my mistakes. Flew over the A frame, like she was flying, great weaves, great dogwalk, great backsides! Just a great class! Tonight the trainer from that place is coming to our town for a 2 hour lesson with me and three others.


----------



## CptJack

I am entered in chances both days of our next two trials. 

We are SO not ready. Ah well, cross the line, call it practice and move on.


----------



## CptJack

I HAVE VIDEO. 







The first video is actually the last run of the day - and Kylie's 4th in a relatively short period of time. She is dragging butt and tired, but I am so happy with this. The other run is a T'n'G run that's not perfect but I'm pretty happy with, anyway. Even with the missed 'tight' at the hoop and failed discrimination. Still tired (It's been a busy, active, weekend and this thing ran a bit late for her), but LESS tired, anyway. 

Also? OFFSIDE WEAVES. SOMEWHERE NOT HOME. ELITE COURSE. We would have no way made time, but it was *CLEAN*, darn it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Look at Kylie go! You two look awesome!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I HAVE VIDEO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first video is actually the last run of the day - and Kylie's 4th in a relatively short period of time. She is dragging butt and tired, but I am so happy with this. The other run is a T'n'G run that's not perfect but I'm pretty happy with, anyway. Even with the missed 'tight' at the hoop and failed discrimination. Still tired (It's been a busy, active, weekend and this thing ran a bit late for her), but LESS tired, anyway.
> 
> Also? OFFSIDE WEAVES. SOMEWHERE NOT HOME. ELITE COURSE. We would have no way made time, but it was *CLEAN*, darn it.


Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## gingerkid

ireth0 said:


> So... depending on how things work out, we may be doing agility foundations in April. Eeep.


We're planning to start foundations next week. We have been doing beginner drop-in classes and... Ida is a total star, and it would, like, be criminal of me to not let her shine. She's already tried all of the equipment except for the teeter and weave poles, and I'm pretty sure those aren't introduced until foundations 2 anyway. I'm excited to learn handling tho!


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Look at Kylie go! You two look awesome!


Thanks! I should probably clarify that the OTHER three rungs were basically that T'n'G course in various ways and from various directions. She actually managed that one the first time she saw it. Slowly 



dogsule said:


> Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks!



gingerkid said:


> We're planning to start foundations next week. We have been doing beginner drop-in classes and... Ida is a total star, and it would, like, be criminal of me to not let her shine. She's already tried all of the equipment except for the teeter and weave poles, and I'm pretty sure those aren't introduced until foundations 2 anyway. I'm excited to learn handling tho!


I cannot wait to see how you and Ireth do and how much fun you both had!

Oh, I also took Bug and she went into the ring and did some jumps and hoops. ANd ran around and played. Mostly she mauled people with love and was very popular with teenagers.


----------



## dogsule

Going to be a long weekend I think. Friday night we have a party for one of my daughters classmates who has been undergoing cancer treatments and is now showing No Evidence of Disease. Yeah!! 

Saturday morning agility trial starts at 7:30AM - (I am going to have to leave my house around 5:45AM) FAST then T2B then Standard then JWW. 82 dogs in the normal Exc/Mas classes. I am really wanting to leave right after the JWW but we have one person from our town that is in Novice and I hate to leave and not watch her but that is four more classes to wait out. I am wanting to go to a town about an hour from the trial area to look at prom dresses with my daughter plus trying to get back to catch 7:00PM mass in town.

Sunday trial starts at 7:30AM again (leaving my place at 5:45 again) and we have to deal with loosing an hour of sleep for daylight savings time. Ugh!! However the number of dogs is down on Sunday for the exc/mas classes to 68 so that should be only just over an hour a class I would think if all goes well. May get out of there early on Sunday and be able to do the prom dress shopping that day instead. 

Either way it is going to be a long weekend. I am hoping with the FAST and T2B first that I can get my nervousness under control by the Std and JWW classes.


----------



## CptJack

Possibly of interest for the few other people who run NADAC:

Starting in April Vet dogs do get extra time in non-jumping classes. 

There are also a few other changes like extra time for Jumpers, Weavers, and Touch 'n' Go, taking away jump height exemption for all dogs who aren't dwarfs (with the skilled option this isn't really a thing), 20 and 20+ " dogs being the same for scoring, but mostly I'm just glad to hear about that first one. It's irritated the snot out of me for a while.


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> Possibly of interest for the few other people who run NADAC:
> 
> Starting in April Vet dogs do get extra time in non-jumping classes.
> 
> There are also a few other changes like extra time for Jumpers, Weavers, and Touch 'n' Go, taking away jump height exemption for all dogs who aren't dwarfs (with the skilled option this isn't really a thing), 20 and 20+ " dogs being the same for scoring, but mostly I'm just glad to hear about that first one. It's irritated the snot out of me for a while.


All good news! We'll be switching over to veterans in a year, and the extra time will definitely be helpful. We've had a really bad month of agility lol. We started having some A-frame issues where she would stop at the top and not want to come down. So I started doing more with the A-frame, and now she completely blows me off in every course to go do the A-frame. I've been getting the middle paw a lot lately! Reaaaaaaally looking forward to starting NADAC back up and all of their non-contact classes just to give it a rest.


----------



## CptJack

LoMD13 said:


> All good news! We'll be switching over to veterans in a year, and the extra time will definitely be helpful. We've had a really bad month of agility lol. We started having some A-frame issues where she would stop at the top and not want to come down. So I started doing more with the A-frame, and now she completely blows me off in every course to go do the A-frame. I've been getting the middle paw a lot lately! Reaaaaaaally looking forward to starting NADAC back up and all of their non-contact classes just to give it a rest.


Oh my god. You too?

We started having A-frame contact issues - not stopping at all. So we worked on them! Now everything's an A-frame. /eye.roll. We're better now, slightly, but I'm mostly doing one class with contacts in the next trial per day and not expecting much.


----------



## Sibe

kadylady, I'm like a week late but CONGRATS! Great runs!

Denali will have two AKC trials next month, and also two days of 2x/day lure coursing. Busy weekends to make up for this slow month. I need to get her back in shape though, I've been slacking on the mushing and both dogs have gained a few lbs. Not a lot but they are athletes and need to be kept in shape!

Bobb. Hey Bobb. Wanna do some agility? Yeah? You do? Well come on, little derp!









We did dark, curved tunnels today. He was too funny. Doesn't seem to "get" what I'm asking. Then goes when I call him. Then doesn't wanna come out!
https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/vb.924990094205737/1048717381833007/?type=2&theater


----------



## LoMD13

CptJack said:


> Oh my god. You too?
> 
> We started having A-frame contact issues - not stopping at all. So we worked on them! Now everything's an A-frame. /eye.roll. We're better now, slightly, but I'm mostly doing one class with contacts in the next trial per day and not expecting much.



It's been really bad! We have a USDAA trial coming up this weekend and I'm not expecting anything! I mean, if there's a tempting A-frame in their path and they go off course, that's understandable. But, don't cross behind me to go take an A-frame that's nowhere near the course, dog.


----------



## dogsule

LoMD13 said:


> It's been really bad! We have a USDAA trial coming up this weekend and I'm not expecting anything! I mean, if there's a tempting A-frame in their path and they go off course, that's understandable. But, don't cross behind me to go take an A-frame that's nowhere near the course, dog.


LOL, we are having A frame problems too (stopping at the top) but only at the trials. I try to work on them but not so much as to make it a draw for her like happened with the teeter once. Of course the last trial we had major weave issues, not like she forgot how to do them but like she would stall in them for some reason. In class she flies through them. We will see what will happen this weekend at our trial. All of our issues only happen at the trials, I usually never know there is an issue until we start running. Ugh!!


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, I think some of the addictive aspect of agility might just come from the fact that you never stop having to work out *something*. Something or another falls apart, or you're suddenly moving up a level and having to learn new skills or even just. Managing things with the dog. Like weaves fall apart - or contacts get sloppy. Anew obstacle becomes a 'suck' on the course, no matter what. Finding the balance between pushing the dog for speed and getting it, versus pushing too much and having mistakes. Not pushing enough and the dog stalling out. Getting the dog out too early and having a wild dog who doesn't listen and picks up extra obstacles, versus out too long and having a stressy/slow/flat dog. 

I have come to the conclusion that I will always be trying to figure out or work on something, somewhere. 

And that the more my dog KNOWS, the more I'm going to have to fine tune my handling, because the more the dog knows the more issues are down to ME.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and with Kylie at least how hard I need to push to get speed (at all) depends entirely on how tired she is and what kind of mood she is in, and sometimes that means I judge wrong and I get a stalled out dog (or a dog who misses the discrimination) and sometimes I judge wrong and push her RIGHT OUT of an obstacle she needs to take or pull her out of weaves or off contacts. That kind of stuff? Is really-really-really hard for me.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Remmy is officially retired. He has been training so well for the past three or four months and I have learned so much about handling better. The first class last weekend, he got the zoomies which was not fine but at least he had fun. After that things went down hill. He would do part of the course really well, then freeze up and not want to move. He also started stalling in the tunnels and not coming out and he usually really loves racing through the tunnels. It was just not a fun trial for either of us. Now I will just concentrate on Lucy and Kris. I could have taken one of them as well last weekend but wanted a weekend with just Remmy to see if it made a difference and we had a good time together.

My sister's Rat Terrier got a Q in four of her six classes. She also won the award for the happiest dog and handler which was a free weekend of entries at one of their trials.


----------



## ireth0

Guys just got the word that we are doing agilityyyy! Not sure exactly when yet but soon! Ahhh!


----------



## CptJack

Tonight was our last advanced handling class. The instructor set a Chances course. I laughed vaguely hysterically and was all "No way". She informed me my dog could do it and by GOD my dog did it. I am over the MOON proud of this dog.

And have got to learn to have faith in my dog - and not to give up on her because if I KEEP HANDLING she often figures it out.


----------



## dogsule

No agility trial for us this weekend! Ugh, Belle somehow managed to puncture her cornea! Got her up this morning and her eye was red and goopy and her pupil was constricted. Had to wait 2 hours to call the vet as they didn't open until 7:30, then got her in at 9:20. No clue what she did, she was fine last night. She is now on two different ointments one of which will keep her eye dilated so no trial, no class, no walking in the bright sun. Follow up appt on thursday to make sure it is healing. So bummed about missing the trial but gosh I feel bad for Belle, her eye is all goopy looking now with ointment. Not sure if I am getting it all in the eye or if it is just smearing the outside. Any tips for getting the ointment actually "in" the eye??


----------



## CptJack

I'm sorry, Dogs. It sucks that you had to miss the trial, and I hope Belle's poor eye heals up without too much trouble.


----------



## gingerkid

Today was our first official agility class. TBH, it was boring as all get out because we're already familiar with the tunnel and jumps, and it sounds like a lot of the other stuff is being "taught" as homework (start-line stays, engagement, etc.) Even though we didn't go over it in class, I'm glad we were given specific stuff to work on, and it's all useful stuff that Ida should probably learn anyway (like stays).

On the plus side, the environment is super distracting and being around all the other fast-moving dogs is giving me tons of opportunity to reward Ida for not being a barky ball of reactivity, and to work on other tricks and things in between our turn on the equipment.


----------



## CptJack

Foundations bore the crap out of me - I actively hate them at this point, because I've done it so many times. 

But it's important because, frankly, the equipment is the easiest and least important part of agility. It's just also the most fun, darn it all. Especially once you start stringing pieces together in longer sequences. 

The environment and doing all the other stuff in a class setting is pretty vital, though.


----------



## gingerkid

Oh totally, I'm glad I didn't try to skip it but like... blugh. Probably doesn't help that the instructor gave the same 10-minute spiel at the start of all 3 drop-in classes as well as in today's class. 

I did find out that we learn the teeter in level 1, so that will be fun!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I'm sorry, Dogs. It sucks that you had to miss the trial, and I hope Belle's poor eye heals up without too much trouble.


Thanks, hoping all looks good on Thursday when I take her back to the vet.


----------



## ireth0

Speaking of foundations, we officially start next Friday!


----------



## elrohwen

We bumped Hazel from 8" to 12" in class this week. She was going so fast over the 8" jumps and not collecting at all that the instructor was worried she would hurt herself. So then she flew over the 12" jumps too. Silly dog. She will definitely be a 16" dog. Watson is a 20" dog who I can barely get to jump 16", but Hazel won't have a problem with her standard height. She turns 1 in a couple weeks, so I'll probably try to keep her at 12" for another 6 months. I rarely jump them at home (bar typically at 4"), and many classes she goes over maybe 10 jumps and done, so not worried about over doing it.

How soon does everybody else put puppies up to full height? 12 months? 18 months? I assume it depends on the size/breed of the dog too. I didn't even start Watson in agility until he was 18 months old so I never worried about it with him (that and the fact that he didn't want to jump over 12" anyway)


----------



## CptJack

For me? Never. All of my dogs measure into heights that are slightly taller than they are at the withers and aren't crazy jumpers and I'm not comfortable with repetitive jumping above height for my dogs (don't care or judge what other people do). Kylie should jump 12, she's at 8 and will stay there. Molly's regular height is 20, she jumps 16. Bug's regular height is 8", she'll start and stay at 4". 

That said, Molly started the whole 16" somewhere around 18 months. 12" before that was fine. Starting her at 8 was a no. She tried to walk on them.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> For me? Never. All of my dogs measure into heights that are slightly taller than they are at the withers and aren't crazy jumpers and I'm not comfortable with repetitive jumping above height for my dogs (don't care or judge what other people do). Kylie should jump 12, she's at 8 and will stay there. Molly's regular height is 20, she jumps 16. Bug's regular height is 8", she'll start and stay at 4".
> 
> That said, Molly started the whole 16" somewhere around 18 months. 12" before that was fine. Starting her at 8 was a no. She tried to walk on them.


Hazel runs in full extension over 8" jumps and ends up 12ft out from the jump before she realizes we were supposed to be turning. lol She kind of does the same with 12" jumps but it's better. I don't think she'll have a problem jumping her full height based on how she jumps 12", but we'll see. I have no issues with preferred. ETA: I haven't actually measured her height. I should do that. I would guess she's about 16-17".

I'll be lucky if I can get Watson jumping 16" over a course. I still run him at 12" now for confidence building, but he will need to get to 16" to run preferred. He can physically do it, but he wants to find a perfect distance at that height and if he can't he bails. Though realistically he may never trial, so I'm not really that concerned with moving him up to 16"


----------



## CptJack

Well, I mean. Kylie can and HAS accidentally run a course set at 16" because I'm an idiot and there were only four jumps (taken a few times) and I didn't notice until she was doing them. I've thoughtlessly lsent her over a warm up jump at 20. It's just that her style doesn't change at 8, she can run 8, and it's less impact on her shoulders. 

That said, I get it the other way, too and I think it's always a balancing act. Kylie won't jump 4 - won't. Don't know what we're going to do when she goes vet, actually, but it's something we have a few years to work on. You know your dogs and where they'll end up jumping. That wasn't really where I was going with that, just spouting off that for me and my dogs - well, they neatly and cleanly jump lower heights with good for they qualify for, we're doing that.

As for 16" and hazel honestly I'd probably wait 18 months unless she's being dangerous, and if she is, well, trust the instructor? She might well be okay at 16. I don't think anyone in our group is 'allowed' to do the taller jump heights/go about 12" until about 18 months, but who knows what they do at home.


----------



## elrohwen

Oh no, I know what you were saying! Watching Watson, I cannot imagine him ever jumping 20". It just, doesn't compute. And other people who've seen him say the same thing. And he has a really pretty jumping style, he's just not a lightly build border collie. He is up to doing some 1 jump exercises over 16", so maybe we'll get there. He's more comfortable with jumping in general now than he was a few months ago. 

Hazel is just reckless which worries me more than anything, but 18 months makes sense to me for moving her up 16". I'm not in any rush. I wasn't even going to move her up to 12" except that the instructor thought it would be safer. 

In other news, our weaves still suck :-( Hazel gets up to 5 sometimes and is doing well, and then totally forgets everything again and acts like she's never seen weave poles before. And Watson is still weird about doing them at home so we don't practice much, and he can get 3, maybe 4, before they fall apart. Even our instructor is convinced that her method is just not working for them (mostly for Watson). I'm going to rent the 2x2 video when it's available at Bowwowflix and start over with that. It's similar enough to what we've done but maybe it will help the dogs see it in a a different way. They just really struggle to find the entry. As soon as I move back to add another pole they skip over the first pole. (and note, this is super slow speed shaping type training with zero speed or body impact). Maybe I'm not working on them often enough for it to stick? It feels like every training session we start over from where we were the last time, and it's been that way for months.

In good news, Watson sort of understands rear crosses now! Yay! Hazel not so much, but I haven't worked with her as much.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I started Kris right off in Specials so she could jump 22 inches instead of 26. I usually train her on 16 inches and just occasionally work her over a 22 inch course.

My sister's Rat Terrier could not seem to get the weaves. She tried 2 x 2 for months and got nowhere except her entries are really good. She had started her on the channel style but as soon as they were put closer together and one of them touched her, game over. Finally after working all winter she entered the Starter Standard classes a couple of weekends ago which she could not before because of the weaves and she Q'd in both Standard classes. She resorted back to what I call the "push - pull" and she finally got them perfectly from both sides. She had already moved up to Advanced in Games classes.


----------



## kadylady

Skye started jumping full height at about 13 months old. I had her growth plates X-rayed prior to make sure everything looked good. She started weaves at 14 months old. She started competing at 15 months and 1 day lol. I'll play the other side of the card and caution against waiting too long to go full height. For a dog like her that sounds like she's hard core powering through everything I would want her full height sooner rather than later, because jumping full height she's going to have to do a lot more with her body and its going to make her think about what she's doing, rather than just running. Waiting too long and letting her blast over low jumps in extension can also create bad jumping habits and you may end up with a harder time teaching her collection later. Jumping problems can be hard problems to fix. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## elrohwen

kadylady said:


> Skye started jumping full height at about 13 months old. I had her growth plates X-rayed prior to make sure everything looked good. She started weaves at 14 months old. She started competing at 15 months and 1 day lol. I'll play the other side of the card and caution against waiting too long to go full height. For a dog like her that sounds like she's hard core powering through everything I would want her full height sooner rather than later, because jumping full height she's going to have to do a lot more with her body and its going to make her think about what she's doing, rather than just running. Waiting too long and letting her blast over low jumps in extension can also create bad jumping habits and you may end up with a harder time teaching her collection later. Jumping problems can be hard problems to fix. Just my 2 cents.


Yeah, this is exactly what our instructor was thinking by moving her up to 12". And she commented that clearly Hazel will be a 16" dog (we had just been discussing preferred classes, Watson's jump height, etc). Our instructor is huge on working collection though, which is nice. She doesn't let us get away with all extension all the time. So yeah, Hazel does need to work on things that will only come when the jumps move up. Right now she's hardly jumping at all - I don't jump them at home (just the 4" bar that's part of my jumps) unless we're specifically working on jumping skills. And we don't jump a ton in class. But when we do jump in class she powers through. She doesn't seem to have any issues with knocking bars either and will step on 8" jumps without noticing. lol So different from Watson! He looks like he's going to cry if he knocks a bar and would rather not jump than risk a bar down. 

We're also moving in May and while we will start lessons up there right away, I won't have room for any of my equipment for a while. By then she'll probably be 18 months anyway, so it might work itself out without me having to really decide. I thought about doing xrays, but she was just xrayed for pano and it was $600+, so I'm kinda meh about xrays. I'd rather wait it out to 18 months instead of paying more money.


Kyllobernese, can you explain some more about the weave training you mentioned? Any links?


----------



## CptJack

Push/Pull is basically luring the dog through the weaves with or without an empty hand, and usually with some body pressure behind it. (Ie: stepping close to keep them from coming through the wrong side). 

Weaves are just. I honestly don't even know. Some dogs, I have decided, just understand better. Molly took nothing to teach. Kylie was a pain to teach, and I still don't trust that they're going to stay because they fall apart at the slightest sign of stress or difficulty increase. I *think* we're past the point where they're going to get any harder, so maybe.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Push/Pull is basically luring the dog through the weaves with or without an empty hand, and usually with some body pressure behind it. (Ie: stepping close to keep them from coming through the wrong side).
> 
> Weaves are just. I honestly don't even know. Some dogs, I have decided, just understand better. Molly took nothing to teach. Kylie was a pain to teach, and I still don't trust that they're going to stay because they fall apart at the slightest sign of stress or difficulty increase. I *think* we're past the point where they're going to get any harder, so maybe.


Oh, yeah, I don't want to do the push-pull method then. I'd rather teach something with more independence built in. I'm sure we'll find something!

Our instructor is going to ask the only Welshie agility person around (they know each other from trials) to see if there's something weird about Welshies and weaves. Like goldens and teeters. Haha. Maybe she'll have some insight on which method to try.

I still swear Watson will really like it once he gets it. He LOVES pattern and repetition. But after all this time he's still obviously guessing and then gets stressed. We've never done any physical manipulation like WOM or channels or anything. Our instructor really isn't a fan of those training methods, but I think Watson might like channels. 

I had some success with Hazel yesterday by putting a treat at the correct entry - if she entered correctly the treat would be right there for her to pick up. It got her into the first pole and then she was able to pick up the pattern after that, so maybe we'll try that for a couple days and see if it holds up when the treat is gone. I didn't get the idea until after I'd worked Watson so I didn't try it with him. I feel like they need some prompt to get the first pole right and then they're ok, but I worry I won't be able to fade it.


----------



## CptJack

Also collection: I sometimes forget that my venue is weird. There is basically rarely a point on the course the dog needs to collect for a jump. In fact I think one of the only places, ever, is to hit weave entries - and sort of to stop on a contact but that's a different kind of collection. Even bigger dogs, they try to make the dog's path something between 18 and 21 feet between obstacles. Them going full out in full extension the whole time isn't the problem it would be on a course with closer obstacles, backsides, or whatever. 

That might very well make me inclined to bump dogs up.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Oh, yeah, I don't want to do the push-pull method then. I'd rather teach something with more independence built in. I'm sure we'll find something!
> 
> Our instructor is going to ask the only Welshie agility person around (they know each other from trials) to see if there's something weird about Welshies and weaves. Like goldens and teeters. Haha. Maybe she'll have some insight on which method to try.
> 
> I still swear Watson will really like it once he gets it. He LOVES pattern and repetition. But after all this time he's still obviously guessing and then gets stressed. We've never done any physical manipulation like WOM or channels or anything. Our instructor really isn't a fan of those training methods, but I think Watson might like channels.
> 
> I had some success with Hazel yesterday by putting a treat at the correct entry - if she entered correctly the treat would be right there for her to pick up. It got her into the first pole and then she was able to pick up the pattern after that, so maybe we'll try that for a couple days and see if it holds up when the treat is gone. I didn't get the idea until after I'd worked Watson so I didn't try it with him. I feel like they need some prompt to get the first pole right and then they're ok, but I worry I won't be able to fade it.


Honestly, I still don't get your instructor's method at all so I'm basically not even going to try to comment on that. 

But I don't like anything like push pull, either. End result isn't enough independence for what I need in what we run. I can be beside the dog sometimes, but very often I can't - I can almost never feed her into the entry unless she's going too slow for me to make time, much less stay there and keep her in. 

Kylie's weaves were lured then shaped, then had a 2x2 grafted on for entries. Kylie also sucked at weaves and took forever, at least if you count all the falling apart. 

Molly's were entirely shaped, but Molly also 'gets' weaves better than Kylie. 

Bug, man. I don't know. If I teach her at all I'll probably default to some kind of shaping, but my expectations for her are minimal. It'll be a matter of me being bored enough to do it.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Also collection: I sometimes forget that my venue is weird. There is basically rarely a point on the course the dog needs to collect for a jump. In fact I think one of the only places, ever, is to hit weave entries. Even bigger dogs, they try to make the dog's path something between 18 and 21 feet between obstacles. Them going full out in full extension the whole time isn't the problem it would be on a course with closer obstacles, backsides, or whatever.
> 
> That might very well make me inclined to bump dogs up.


That's a good point. Different venues are very different. I'm not sure what Hazel's group class instructor does mostly, but I'm guessing AKC and USDAA. She puts so much emphasis on collection, which is good for Hazel. We end up doing a lot more extension stuff in private lessons, but that's partially because the ring is huge and jumps are far apart so there's more chance to pick up speed.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Honestly, I still don't get your instructor's method at all so I'm basically not even going to try to comment on that.


It's shaping. The weaves start as a full straight set, no channels or 2x2 or anything. Shape the dog to enter, shape the dog to exit, then try to back chain it together one pole at a time.


----------



## elrohwen

elrohwen said:


> It's shaping. The weaves start as a full straight set, no channels or 2x2 or anything. Shape the dog to enter, shape the dog to exit, then try to back chain it together one pole at a time.


And the problem with my dogs is that no matter how much I work on entrances, as soon as I change my position at all they completely forget where the entry is and what they're supposed to be doing. No matter how much I try to split it down, they can't seem to generalize the entry.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I taught Kris to do the weaves using the "push-pull" and you gradually move farther away. She does them independently from either side and I do not have to say anything or move towards her and she is very accurate at entering. Once they learn the pattern, she does them just the same as Lucy who was taught with the channel method. I can stand a good distance away and just tell them once to go weave.

Remmy was also taught the same way and he has great weaves. The only thing I did wrong with him was to work on only one side but we overcame that this winter.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kairi didn't actually do her full height jumps until she was 2 years old. Although -- she had been at 14ish for quite some time. She will jump 20" in AKC so my instructor highly recommended putting her at 20" in CPE as well, even though she can jump 16" there. I'll probably start jumping her at 16" everything in a few years. If I trialed more often then I wouldn't jump her at 20" at all. I've noticed she knocks bars less at 20" though. Rambling aside.. 

Those are some weird methods of weaves to me. I figured most places did channel unless they were fancy with 2x2 classes. In Ember's puppy class (I guess technically they are all teens now!), we have an open-ish channel and guide wires. We have slowly been upping the distances and making harder angles. The wires make finding the entry easy for now.


----------



## CptJack

I didn't actually teach weaves via instructor and class - she does 2x2, but she only has the classes about once a year and it wasn't at a time I needed them either time. So I just sort of muddled through. Did okay with Molly, Kylie I feel bad for but we're finally where we need to be (I HOPE!) so whatever. I can see push/pull, luring, whatever you want to call it working fine IF you have a dog who is inclined to be independent AND can strike the balance between babysitting too long and creating dependence OR going too fast with adding distance/fading the signals/lure and creating a dog who gets frustrated. I have no confidence in my ability to do either, though there was admittedly a little bit of luring happening with Kylie's shaping/channels/2x2/WHATEVER JUST WEAVE methods. LOL.

We have a trial next weekend and the one after. I don't even care how ready or not we are at this point, I just want to go play. I'm entered into some 'weird' stuff for me and I don't expect many if any Qs, but I WANT TO GO PLAY.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson is like a real agility dog now!!

Granted, we suck. My handling is not good, he focuses too much on me and occasionally almost runs into jumps. Weaves suck and the teeter is still an issue (though improving).

But I finally feel like we're a team. Instead of me pushing and him pulling, we're figuring this out together. I can actually work on handling and stuff without worrying about him running off halfway through.

He's hilarious though. The instructor said that sometimes she forgets to watch what I'm doing because it's so funny to watch Watson. Every once in a while he gets this kind of blank happy expression as he's running along, and completely forgets about what we're doing. He's like "We're running! Running with my mom! I love running! I love my mom!" and then he almost runs into a tire jump or something. lol You can see the exact second his expression changes when he realizes there's an obstacle there and he's supposed to be doing something with it. He's such a dope.


----------



## jade5280

We introduced weaves yesterday and also did a short run of 3 low jumps and then through the tunnel. Panzer is loving the class. We need to work on impulse control more because every time we walk past and obstacle he jumps on it or tries to run through it. Even on a short leash it's hard to stop him from doing it because he's so strong. 

I think I'm going to wait to continue onto intermediate agility because I don't want him doing higher jumps.

How do you stay in agility classes? Do you just keep taking the same classes over again or does your training facility offer like a general practice type class for people that already know the foundations? Our facility only offers beginners, intermediate, and advanced and they are all one class each.


----------



## CptJack

jade5280 said:


> How do you stay in agility classes? Do you just keep taking the same classes over again or does your training facility offer like a general practice type class for people that already know the foundations? Our facility only offers beginners, intermediate, and advanced and they are all one class each.


Depends on the dog. Our facility is Foundations, Beginner, Intermediate, and now Advanced (that was added this year/recently) and an annual weaves class. I've repeated classes, and I know tons of other people have, too, just to make sure the dog is getting what they needed out of the class. In fact I'd say the majority of people who have stuck with it have repeated at least one level, and in some cases have done all of the levels more than once. Heck, in a couple of classes, dogs have taken one level 3 or so times before moving on.

But after that the expectation is Private Lessons, Club Practices, Show 'n' Goes as they're available, and of course working at home. The real thing is going to be talking to your individual instructor/club to find out what and how people handle it. For us, that's what the deal is - and you get put on a mailing list letting you know when lessons are happening/being taught, when the open practices are during trial season, etc. There are other places you pretty much stay within a single group and the difficulty level increases, and yet others where it's basically ring rentals and work on your own.

So. Yeah. Ask. Don't expect much answer necessarily until you're running out of classes and definitely be very, very clear about your desire to stick with it and trial, but your path AFTER classes is something your instructor should be able to help you figure out.


----------



## elrohwen

jade5280 said:


> We introduced weaves yesterday and also did a short run of 3 low jumps and then through the tunnel. Panzer is loving the class. We need to work on impulse control more because every time we walk past and obstacle he jumps on it or tries to run through it. Even on a short leash it's hard to stop him from doing it because he's so strong.


Mine are the worst. It's a constant battle to keep Hazel off of contact equipment. I mostly let Watson go because if it boosts his confidence to do a random Aframe, then he can go for it, I just ignore and don't reward and move on. It's scary when they're doing that before they actually know the obstacle though. Like when Hazel beelines for the teeter. I think they mostly grow out of it as they figure out what they get paid for and what they don't.



> I think I'm going to wait to continue onto intermediate agility because I don't want him doing higher jumps.


Can't you ask them to set the jumps lower? In Hazel's class we have dogs doing anywhere from 8-16" and the instructor will set them at whatever is appropriate.



> How do you stay in agility classes? Do you just keep taking the same classes over again or does your training facility offer like a general practice type class for people that already know the foundations? Our facility only offers beginners, intermediate, and advanced and they are all one class each.


I've never advanced beyond the "advanced beginner" level. The two places I've trained seem to separate based on dogs who know all of the obstacles and those who don't. So, if your dogs knows weaves, teeter, and contact obstacles, you're moving up to intermediate. If you're still working on those things and have a way to go, you're in advanced beginner. Hazel's advanced beginner class usually involves a ~12 obstacle course (jumps, tunnels, table), but one dog/handler team might only do 3 jumps of it because they need to work on some skill. Another team might do the whole thing right through. Then we usually spend a little time working on contact obstacles or teeter or something. So yeah, lots of taking the same class over and over again until you build up the skills to move on. Some people have been in this same advanced beginner class for a year. Beginner is the only class I can think of where people only take it once.


----------



## Kyllobernese

There has never been a class available since I started with Kris. However, I have access to the Agility equipment in an indoor arena so just practice on my own. We do have a group of small dogs that meet usually twice a week that are all into competing and there is no instructor but we have one person, who is also a judge in Agility, that has been giving us tips in handling which has been great. I could take Kris to it as well but since the group is three Paps, one Rat terrier and my Shih Tzu x Maltese, it is easier to just do her at a separate time as they are all so far advanced to Kris. We do have someone who brings their stumpy tail cattle dog sometimes also.


----------



## jade5280

Yeah I could just ask them to set the jumps lower, but we're going to be taking a CGC starting this Saturday. That along with our IPO foundations and I'm also going to be signing Ryker up for a Nosework class (that the facility just started offering! Yay!). So I don't have time to go into the intermediate class right after, but will probably be doing it later this spring/summer once Pan gets his CGC.

So much to do, not enough time!


----------



## elrohwen

Ok, since it seems like nobody understands what the heck we're doing for weaves, here's a video of what we worked on tonight. Note that this is not how we started, and there's more to it. This is just working on back chaining "exits". We were only doing this in class previously, with the instructor putting food on a target, but I remembered today that I have a T&T and I can do this by myself. This is the first time we've worked on this part at home.

I'll also add that I should be standing still and letting the dog do it. But after a lot of time working on this we decided that maybe my dogs need that step forward. We were able to phase it out really fast with Hazel in our lesson (faster than I did here). But not so much with Watson. So just know that's not part of the method at all, but we're at the stage of just trying stuff to see what helps.

So yeah, hopefully this helps visualize a bit. And you can see why I've said that I don't see a problem with working on weaves with Hazel using this method. It's really a slow shaping method and she's not really putting any strain on her body. Not saying it's the best! Obviously it's not working for my dogs that well, but I see the benefits of starting with the weaves in the same formation that they'll eventually be in. I'm waiting on the 2x2 video and then I'd like to break it down (at least for Watson who is struggling the most) and see where that gets us.


----------



## Kyllobernese

This video was actually working on front and blind crosses and I goofed up on the jumps after the tunnel but it shows Kris' weaves from both sides when she had not done much weaving. I never lured her through them, just used my body and she picked it up fast. I have to work more on distance now but this was a start.

https://youtu.be/mcapNMU9DfY


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

elrohwen said:


> Ok, since it seems like nobody understands what the heck we're doing for weaves, here's a video of what we worked on tonight. Note that this is not how we started, and there's more to it. This is just working on back chaining "exits". We were only doing this in class previously, with the instructor putting food on a target, but I remembered today that I have a T&T and I can do this by myself. This is the first time we've worked on this part at home.
> 
> I'll also add that I should be standing still and letting the dog do it. But after a lot of time working on this we decided that maybe my dogs need that step forward. We were able to phase it out really fast with Hazel in our lesson (faster than I did here). But not so much with Watson. So just know that's not part of the method at all, but we're at the stage of just trying stuff to see what helps.
> 
> So yeah, hopefully this helps visualize a bit. And you can see why I've said that I don't see a problem with working on weaves with Hazel using this method. It's really a slow shaping method and she's not really putting any strain on her body. Not saying it's the best! Obviously it's not working for my dogs that well, but I see the benefits of starting with the weaves in the same formation that they'll eventually be in. I'm waiting on the 2x2 video and then I'd like to break it down (at least for Watson who is struggling the most) and see where that gets us.


Ohh. Yeah I'm not really a huge fan of that method. I mean, sure, you are getting the job done but. If you are hoping for independence and speed, I'd definitely look more into 2x2 and/or channel using "around the clock". I've found that I like open channel for puppies because it builds speed/independence and the "idea" of the weaves without putting much strain on the body. 

As for classes, I've basically stayed in the same class with the same dogs and we build on to advanced stuff over time. Of course I also changed facilities I went to due to distance and was instantly put into "competition agility" class even though I was still technically a beginner at my other facility. The instructor wanted me to learn from the competing class since my dog was good to go but adjusted jump height. Both facilities kind of worked that way though. Ember has been in what is technically puppy class since 8 weeks old and we have slowly heightened equipment over time.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Ohh. Yeah I'm not really a huge fan of that method. I mean, sure, you are getting the job done but. If you are hoping for independence and speed, I'd definitely look more into 2x2 and/or channel using "around the clock". I've found that I like open channel for puppies because it builds speed/independence and the "idea" of the weaves without putting much strain on the body.


Yeah, this method is definitely not geared towards speed. I disagree about the independence part though. My instructor's dogs have extremely independent weaves. Like I said, I'm not doing it right here, because my dogs just were not getting it without more cues from me. But there should be zero handler cues. There is also a big aspect of around the clock work for working entries, but like I said, this is exits and only one part of what we've done. The around the clock was also a disaster though. The second I shift my body position my dogs are like "huh? what were we doing here again?"


----------



## CptJack

I don't think there's anything wrong with the method if you have a very shaping savvy dog, but the fact that you've been doing this for months means, yeah, you've got dependence issues. The single step forward 'prompt' is probably now part of the picture, and I don't know what's going to happen even if you get all 6 like this and then have to do off sides or be somewhere else, you know?

I did something similar with Kylie, and it took her... maybe a week to be moving through them with speed and without me. Though with Kylie I started at the entry rather than the exit and backchaining. It worked okay - but it is also sort of what I blame for her confidence issues and them falling apart (it's actually pretty high pressure as a method). I just don't think she has the confidence to work with something where the criteria isn't a lot more clear and obvious than that, and she sure as heck didn't need to be encouraged to be slow and think or 'guess' - which is a sort of innate part of shaping. 

And, well. Molly I pretty much pointed at weaves, she did about 3 poles accidentally once, did some 2X2 for entries and bam, done (though I did something sort of channely to get more speed) I don't want to say it's a drive thing, but I DO think it's a confidence thing and a thing that requires a dog who's brain works in a particular way.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with the method if you have a very shaping savvy dog, but the fact that you've been doing this for months means, yeah, you've got dependence issues. The single step forward 'prompt' is probably now part of the picture, and I don't know what's going to happen even if you get all 6 like this and then have to do off sides or be somewhere else, you know?
> 
> I did something similar with Kylie, and it took her... maybe a week to be moving through them with speed and without me. Though with Kylie I started at the entry rather than the exit and backchaining. It worked okay - but it is also sort of what I blame for her confidence issues and them falling apart. I just don't think she has the confidence to work with something where the criteria isn't a lot more clear and obvious than that, and she sure as heck didn't need to be encouraged to be slow and think.


The single step forward just appeared on Tuesday. So it's not part of the cue, but it's the only way the dogs figured it out past like, 2 poles. I was able to fade the step forward with Hazel in about 3-4 reps. Watson not so much. He is very dependent on my help in general.

Also, I said this before, we started on entries. This is not the whole method, this is part. Maybe 1/3 of the method? I just chose to show this. This is the part of the training we've worked on the least and we've spent far more time working on entries. Maybe I'm not explaining things well? I feel like every time I post something about this, big parts of what I'm saying are missed. 

ETA: And yes, Watson has a lot of confidence issues and something so shaping heavy does not help his confidence. He needs a more error proof method. So that's what we're trying to figure out. Our instructor ha s trained a lot of dogs and people this way and apparently mine are the first to not get it in a couple weeks. So who knows.


----------



## CptJack

I don't really think you're explaining it badly. Yeah, I missed the working entries part, but I think mostly people just don't like it. 

*I* don't like it and I've used it. 

And if you're at 4 poles after months of work, it's not working - at least with Watson who is going slow, stopping after every pole and looking at you before doing more. I mean, not critical deliberately but I think asking dogs to slow down and think hard with most things in agility is just not going to work in most cases and particularly with a dog who worries the way Watson does.

*ETA:* You edited while I posted - sorry.

I wonder what kind of dogs she typically trained. Like I said, that would have/did more or less work for Molly, but Molly is a high drive, highly confident (In training - LOL, not in life at all) dog who was well within her comfort zone and way more familiar with shaping and to be honest I think she basically intuitively leaped to understanding the deal once she got those first poles.


----------



## elrohwen

Not trying to defend the method, I didn't create it and it's obviously not working for us and we need to try something new. So yeah, I agree with all of that. 

I was just getting frustrated that I'm trying to type a novel about what we're doing (because some of it is good, like finding entries in an around the clock way, though we still struggle there). And then every post someone makes seems to have all these misunderstandings even though I specifically wrote something opposite of that. So that's my frustration, not the criticism. I guess I just want the criticism to be about the right thing. lol Like the fact that it's too shaping heavy and teaching dogs to be slow and thoughtful, which I totally agree with.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Not trying to defend the method, I didn't create it and it's obviously not working for us and we need to try something new. So yeah, I agree with all of that.
> 
> I was just getting frustrated that I'm trying to type a novel about what we're doing (because some of it is good, like finding entries in an around the clock way, though we still struggle there). And then every post someone makes seems to have all these misunderstandings even though I specifically wrote something opposite of that. So that's my frustration, not the criticism.


That's very, very fair!


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I wonder what kind of dogs she typically trained. Like I said, that would have/did more or less work for Molly, but Molly is a high drive, highly confident (In training - LOL, not in life at all) dog who was well within her comfort zone and way more familiar with shaping and to be honest I think she basically intuitively leaped to understanding the deal once she got those first poles.


Her dogs are primarily eskies and buhunds, with a few goldens thrown in. And her classes are full of a variety of dogs and at least with I've seen, not high drive fast dogs. So I don't doubt the method works, at least for some dogs. And like I said, her dogs have super independent weaves. They aren't BC fast, but she can stand across the ring or run around and say "weave" and they do it from anywhere. There's a lot of independence built into the method after they get past the point that we're at now, but the point we're at now isn't supposed to take this long. Most dogs figure it out quickly and then the handler starts moving away, but mine haven't even figured it out with me right there yet.


----------



## Kyllobernese

My sister's Rat Terrier was the hardest dog I have seen to teach weaves to. She tried the channel method for months but as soon as the poles started getting a little closer and touched the dog, she would not go through. She did the 2 X 2's which gave her great entries but nothing else. She did not just jump from one method to another but tried for months with no progress. We finally put guides on the poles but still could not get them close enough together. Finally as a last resort after trying for almost a total of a year and a half, she did the "push/pull" and it finally sunk in and she does them now. She had already competed in Starter Games and got her title right away but could not do Starter Standard till this year and she Q'd her first two times in it because she can now do the weaves, so it does work for some dogs.


----------



## elrohwen

Kyllobernese said:


> My sister's Rat Terrier was the hardest dog I have seen to teach weaves to. She tried the channel method for months but as soon as the poles started getting a little closer and touched the dog, she would not go through. She did the 2 X 2's which gave her great entries but nothing else. She did not just jump from one method to another but tried for months with no progress. We finally put guides on the poles but still could not get them close enough together. Finally as a last resort after trying for almost a total of a year and a half, she did the "push/pull" and it finally sunk in and she does them now. She had already competed in Starter Games and got her title right away but could not do Starter Standard till this year and she Q'd her first two times in it because she can now do the weaves, so it does work for some dogs.


It's nice to hear at least that other people struggle with weaves! It's definitely one of those things where you start to see the individual thought processes of each dog.

Hazel is doing ok I think. If I can get entries she can do the rest. I tried putting a treat on the floor so she would have to enter correctly to get it, and after that she could easily do 5 or so poles. She just needed the help to get started. Watson is a mess though. lol He looks to me for help so much.

I forgot to mention, I liked your video with Kris! She looks like so much fun.


----------



## dogsule

I think my method of teaching the weaves was probably called the luring one, where you lure them with a treat the right way through. We started agility classes in March of 2014 and the trainer rarely worked on weaves. I just did it on my own before and after class. Belle just seemed to like them. This video was from July of 2014, there are guide wires on the beginning and end but Belle didn't need them. So four months later this was where we were with them.

https://flic.kr/p/oeh9zM

Luring may not be the best way to teach weaves but it did work for Belle. Once she understood what I wanted she could do them regardless of which side I was on. I am working now on moving away from her and front crosses at the end and rear crosses at the beginning. Rear crosses were harder for her though. Distance doesn't always seem to be needed in AKC agility, most people are right there by their dogs so it isn't needed as much as in other kinds of agility. We are also working at more independence with her going to the weaves without me being right there, I want her to know if I say weave she find the weaves and weaves all the way through. She is usually pretty good at weaving even though at the last trial they fell apart for some reason, still think it was the new piece on the weaves to hold them together but that is a whole different issue I guess. 

Going in this afternoon to see if her eye has healed. Hoping to get good news!!


----------



## elrohwen

I wish there was a good written guide for 2x2 training. I'm waiting on the dvd but they're all rented again, and I feel like the bits and pieces you find online don't necessarily show the whole method or some minor but important points. I'd also rather read about it and have a guide to go back to. I can only watch a long dvd so many times but I still forget things unless I take really good notes.

Regardless, I did start with Watson that other day and he surprisingly enjoyed it, despite being weird about weaves lately. I was even able to gradually increase difficult and change my position with him falling apart immediately.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I think in AAC Agility, you usually can run alongside the weaves in most classes. Sometimes they use them in Gamblers and you may have to send them out to them but have not seen that very often. I went through all Starter and Advanced classes and got my Q's in them with Remmy only weaving when I was on the right of the poles. There were no instructors around when I first started Agility so never taught him they had to weave from both sides. Finally this winter I have taught him to weave when I am on either side.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I definitely think you CAN get independent weaves with almost any method with time and patience. I do agree that one method isn't going to work for all dogs and if all else fails, why not just lure? It is just a weird first choice to me. I don't know any instructors or super serious agility people around here that have done it that way. Not saying there is anything super wrong with it though.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I definitely think you CAN get independent weaves with almost any method with time and patience. I do agree that one method isn't going to work for all dogs and if all else fails, why not just lure? It is just a weird first choice to me. I don't know any instructors or super serious agility people around here that have done it that way. Not saying there is anything super wrong with it though.


Yeah, I really don't want to lure. We've only tried one method, and it's not even one of the most popular methods, so I'm not going to luring yet. 

And I know I'm essentially luring in the video I made, but that is completely NOT how this method is supposed to work. It's just the only thing we could think of to make it work for my dogs. To me that just says it's the wrong method if I have to give them that much help.


----------



## CptJack

I will probably lure weaves with Bug - if I bother to teach them at all. I will admit freely, however, that I could not be LESS serious, you know? At absolute most she'll see 6 in Novice Regular, and all I REALLY intend to do with her is intro regular. Which has no weaves. 

But yeah, I like the performance I have better as it stands and would avoid, too, with other dogs - at least if at all possible. Kylie at least needs waaaaay more independence than I can provide on like...98% of courses.


----------



## Sibe

Bobb was measured yesterday in class. He's 9" at the withers. So teeeeeenyyyyyy.

He also got cheeze whiz on his chin. A couple dots are put at the end of the teeter, and only the teeter, to make it a super high value reinforcer.









Between you and me, he *rocks* contacts. He's having trouble with tunnels though, he doesn't seem to get it when he can't see all the way through. He's an old guy and eyes are a bit cloudy. He sees pretty well but I wonder if that could be part of it.


----------



## CptJack

Could be his vision. It could also be a matter of HEARING. Bug sometimes has similar issues and it's actually because she... can't hear me moving OR see where she's going and that's just full on nope. She needed to be able to see where she's going to be spit out. She's gained some confidence now but apparently deaf and limited vision was just really, really hard.


----------



## Sibe

CptJack said:


> Could be his vision. It could also be a matter of HEARING. Bug sometimes has similar issues and it's actually because she... can't hear me moving OR see where she's going and that's just full on nope. She needed to be able to see where she's going to be spit out. She's gained some confidence now but apparently deaf and limited vision was just really, really hard.


 I run him up and he doesn't even go in if he can't see the end. If he sits and waits, I can go to the end and call him and he runs right through.


----------



## gingerkid

When we were learning chutes, Ida would turn around in the plastic barrel part and not go through the actual chute... unless I was repeatedly marking (with "yes") for her continuing to move forward. The same strategy has helped with her tunnels too (she's pretty good with them, even curved, but hasn't refused any since I started repeatedly marking). Maybe it will also help Bob?

Relatedly, is there anything in trials about praising your dog during runs and things? Should I eventually be fading out my "yes"es?


----------



## CptJack

You can say whatever you want to your dog as long as it isn't angry, harsh, or cursing.

ETA: That said, you probably want to fade things out eventually. Dog waiting on affirmation that it's right can really get in the way, and if the dog's not waiting on affirmation your timing with it's going to be so far off it'll be irrelevant (ie: the dog will speed the heck up and you both won't have time and it will become pointless).


----------



## gingerkid

Super.

(too short)


----------



## Sibe

What CptJack said. Talk as much as you want. But really, after your dog has learned the obstacles and can sequence you need to fade out the cues. When there is no obstacle discrimination (tunnel opening next to A-frame for example) or specific moves (backside of jump, sending out away from you), or a need to call your dog's name (coming out of a tunnel with jump in front of them they aren't supposed to take) then you should be able to run silently. We practice that quite a bit in class. You're quiet unless you *need* to say something.


----------



## Kyllobernese

It proved very interesting at one of the trials as they had a fun class where you had to run your dog with a cookie in your mouth so you could not say a word. Some of the dogs who had the most talkative handlers actually ran better. Some people do not realize how much dogs depend on your body language and not words. Small dogs especially really rely on which way your feet are pointing. Learned a lot this winter in handling that I did not know before.


----------



## Sibe

They do tend to run better because you have to do your part and your body language is much more clear. Any time your dog misses something, freeze and look at your feet. You'll know why the dog missed. Talking can also cause them to mess up. Say something right as they're taking off over a jump and most likely you're going to have a dropped bar.


----------



## CptJack

I tend to be kind of... chatty in the ring compared to some, but honestly it's fallen off probably 95% once I realized that what I said didn't matter at all to the dog. I realized that largely when I got so flustered by a super fast run I basically just ran and stammered and nothing came out correctly. These days it's mostly discriminations and directionals. MOSTLY.

ETA: Also tight ie: How to take the obstacle, which basically means take it and wrap it.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know I have made the mistake of saying "good dog" at the wrong time and steered them off an obstacle. I have heard myself and other people as you are racing around heading for an obstacle and saying the wrong name (like tunnel instead of jump) and it is a good thing that the dog pays more attention to where you are directing them than what you are saying.


----------



## kadylady

AKC Agility National Championship starting now!

http://4leggedflix.com/live-stream/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLTnM0E1wkPG30ttE1AgCRj5ncHzkhkxlf&v=Jma7RsjqSfg

http://www.akcagilityresults.com/results/


----------



## kadylady

AKC National Agility Championships starting now!

http://www.akcagilityresults.com/results/

http://4leggedflix.com/live-stream/


----------



## CptJack

I have no idea what I'm trying to accomplish with what I'm entering anymore. I have three trials in the next month and I've reached this point where it's just like 'I entered things!' and that's as good as it's getting.

I was much more strategic when I knew the results of the previous trial before filling out entries for the next ones.


----------



## Laurelin

kadylady said:


> AKC National Agility Championships starting now!
> 
> http://www.akcagilityresults.com/results/
> 
> http://4leggedflix.com/live-stream/


I was there today watching live! Will be back tomorrow. I got a lot of loot....


----------



## MrsBoats

I enter all the AKC and USDAA agility things within an hour and a half for me just because. I'm not strategic about any of it anymore. LOL


----------



## CptJack

I had to go look to see what titles I've earned in which classes before I filled out the last premium. That at least should go away when I'm not spread across Novice - Elite. But hey! I entered things! I get to agility! Life's good. I'll untangle it all during the next break.

Then carry on not being strategic because I give up.


----------



## Laurelin

kadylady said:


> AKC National Agility Championships starting now!
> 
> http://www.akcagilityresults.com/results/
> 
> http://4leggedflix.com/live-stream/


We went shopping. Soooo much shopping in Tulsa.


----------



## MrsBoats

I will admit, there are places I won't run Ocean because of the poor footing or the crating is awful. That's about as strategic as I get.


----------



## CptJack

Agility lesson today was lots of fun. Kylie rocked the heck out of her weaves, we did some more complicated types of discriminations, and worked on switches. Which, well. I'm not sure Kylie's ever going to get the right to left without a spin, but meh. Fun was had (lots of it) and she did good and made me proud.

Practice tomorrow! Trial this weekend. My first one ever with *NO* regular. Should be interesting!


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Agility lesson today was lots of fun. Kylie rocked the heck out of her weaves, we did some more complicated types of discriminations, and worked on switches. Which, well. I'm not sure Kylie's ever going to get the right to left without a spin, but meh. Fun was had (lots of it) and she did good and made me proud.
> 
> Practice tomorrow! Trial this weekend. My first one ever with *NO* regular. Should be interesting!


Is switch the same as a rear cross? Just curious if I'm picturing it right or if it's a different move.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Is switch the same as a rear cross? Just curious if I'm picturing it right or if it's a different move.


Nearest thing to a switch we have is OMD's tandem turn. That's not 100% it, but like... 99.5. It's basically a rear cross on a turn with a lead change. Kylie's issue is she has such a tight turning radius that she can make the turn without changing leads, but if it's a sharp angle it eventually forces a  change - with a spin. She's FINE left to right, but right to left? She turns, takes the obstacle and then spins.

ETA: Actually the last video I posted she does the spin after the obstacle on a L to R switch, but in that case it was because she switched, made the change, and then I gave a completely wrong command so she turned back. End result though was STILL spinning. Decent example of what it's supposed to be/is in the second serp on the course, even with the spin in there, though.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Nearest thing to a switch we have is OMD's tandem turn. That's not 100% it, but like... 99.5. It's basically a rear cross on a turn with a lead change. Kylie's issue is she has such a tight turning radius that she can make the turn without changing leads, but if it's a sharp angle it eventually forces a change - with a spin. She's FINE left to right, but right to left? She turns, takes the obstacle and then spins.
> 
> ETA: Actually the last video I posted she does the spin after the obstacle on a L to R switch, but in that case it was because she switched, made the change, and then I gave a completely wrong command so she turned back. End result though was STILL spinning. Decent example of what it's supposed to be/is in the second serp on the course, even with the spin in there, though.


Ahh, ok. So rear cross = lead change, but a switch is done on a turn? 

We're working on rear crosses a bit and I totally get the spinning while going on way. Watson seems to get it in one direction, but we have a hard time cutting out the spin going the other way.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Ahh, ok. So rear cross = lead change, but a switch is done on a turn?
> 
> We're working on rear crosses a bit and I totally get the spinning while going on way. Watson seems to get it in one direction, but we have a hard time cutting out the spin going the other way.


You can do a rear cross (If I understand correctly and I may not because I seem to be the only one in my club using them ever) without a lead change being necessarily part of it- usually involved, but not always. But yeah, a switch is a rear with a lead change on a turn, and usually a sharp one.

The weirdness for me is on the flat? Fine. Around a barrel or hoop (ie: 180% turn)? Fine. any lesser angle? SPIN. I guess at least that means it's unlikely to be a physical issue, so that's nice. LOL.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> You can do a rear cross (If I understand correctly and I may not because I seem to be the only one in my club using them ever) without a lead change being necessarily part of it- usually involved, but not always. But yeah, a switch is a rear with a lead change on a turn, and usually a sharp one.
> 
> The weirdness for me is on the flat? Fine. Around a barrel or hoop (ie: 180% turn)? Fine. any lesser angle? SPIN. I guess at least that means it's unlikely to be a physical issue, so that's nice. LOL.


I've been taught that rear cross always means you're doing a lead change because you're changing direction (unless you're changing direction but want to keep the dog on the opposite lead for some specific reason, but that's too advanced for us right now), but that might just be my instructors and how they teach it. We even use "switch" as the verbal cue. Haha.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I've been taught that rear cross always means you're doing a lead change, but that might just be my instructors and how they teach it. We even use "switch" as the verbal cue. Haha.


In fairness, my agility instructor pretty much taught it as a 'regular' rear cross and used switch as the verbal cue, too, but after one incident of suggesting I do a 'very gentle switch without a lead change or much of a turn' and I stared and asked if she meant a regular rear cross I got 'Yes, exactly' so. IDEK. 

My differentiation at this point is a little screw. I can just cut behind the dog or send her ahead and switch sides with her really easily, particularly around tunnels and contacts and get my side changes there without any issue at all, and I've seen OTHER people calling that a rear, but I've also seen the lead change called the same when it's not on a turn? So I really don't know. 

I know that the thing that is an issue for us are well. Tandem turns, to keep things clear  Vocabulary/Jargon is odd.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I know that the thing that is an issue for us are well. Tandem turns, to keep things clear  Vocabulary/Jargon is odd.


It also seems like people who follow OMD use a *lot* of different terms. It might be that another handler uses the term "rear cross" for a variety of things where they go behind the dog, but with OMD they separate out different types of rear crosses and give them different names. None of the places I've been around here do OMD, so I dunno.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> It also seems like people who follow OMD use a *lot* of different terms. It might be that another handler uses the term "rear cross" for a variety of things where they go behind the dog, but with OMD they separate out different types of rear crosses and give them different names. None of the places I've been around here do OMD, so I dunno.


Yeah, we don't do OMD, either, at least as far as I know. There is a difference between rear and switch though and switch is almost but not entirely like a tandem turn and I don't even. It's a thing. We do. Badly sometimes. LOL.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Yeah, we don't do OMD, either, at least as far as I know. There is a difference between rear and switch though and switch is almost but not entirely like a tandem turn and I don't even. It's a thing. We do. Badly sometimes. LOL.


Hey, I was thrilled the first time Watson did a real rear cross the other day. lol Baby steps.

Hazel doesn't read any cues most of the time. She runs straight as fast as she can and realizes way too late that I was doing a front cross or something. Baby dog problems but we're getting there. I never had this problem with Watson just because he's so much slower.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Hey, I was thrilled the first time Watson did a real rear cross the other day. lol Baby steps.
> 
> Hazel doesn't read any cues most of the time. She runs straight as fast as she can and realizes way too late that I was doing a front cross or something. Baby dog problems but we're getting there. I never had this problem with Watson just because he's so much slower.


I honestly don't know what the heck I did to Kylie, but I did something somewhere in my "...I don't understand what I'm trying to teach" phase of this that has just mind-melted her but good. 

Molly, ironically, is fine. Because of course she is.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

We use some OMD stuff. Kairi has a lovely tandem turn and it is a really nice move to have. 

I'm not sure if there is a different way others use it.. but I'll try to explain the difference I have between that and a rear cross. When I do rear cross, I'm basically sending the dog to an obstacle and crossing behind them. When I do a tandem turn, I am turning the dog on the flat -away- from me.. lining them up for the next obstacle.


----------



## CptJack

That's about the gist of it for me. Regular rear cross I commit the dog to the next obstacle and I switch sides. Dog doesnt need to do much, even of I'm pulling her across my line to do it. Tandem turn is... Well it's a TURN between obstacles.

That said the "switch" verbal I've heard used for both, but usually means the tandem turn in nadac at least and I know I found definitions for rear crosses that both include a lead change and that don't.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I found definitions for rear crosses that both include a lead change and that don't.


When would you use a cross (rear or otherwise) and not want the dog to change leads? For this question, assume that you don't want the dog counter-cantering on the wrong lead for some reason (unless that's the only time you would rear cross without a lead change)


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> When would you use a cross (rear or otherwise) and not want the dog to change leads? For this question, assume that you don't want the dog counter-cantering on the wrong lead for some reason (unless that's the only time you would rear cross without a lead change)


Basically they're used BEFORE the lead change, is the best way I can figure to describe it. There will always be a change, but it doesn't have to be NOW. If I know a lead change is coming up three obstacles ahead - I can cut behind the dog well ahead and 'pull' the dog instead of flipping it out at the first obstacle in the new direction. 

Straight line of 3 jumps, with a lead change at jump 4 - because it's at an angle and you need a side swap by that point. I can wait until approaching 4 to 'switch' the dog (flip it out, change lead legs there and change sides with the dog), or I can cut behind between jump 1 and 2, or 2 and 3 and still get the side change and lead change but the dog never has to 'flip out'. Or going into a curved tunnel where the tunnel itself forces the dog to change leads and direction of arc - I can send the dog ahead of and across me into the tunnel and have her come out on the side I need her on, rather than 'flipping' her into the tunnel. Or cutting behind while the dog is on the dog walk or a-frame. Regardless of what direction it was going in, it's now coming out on the lead leg you want, because it's going from a straight line (again) over the contact, and usually a stop in case of 2o2o. 

I guess ultimately they all signal there is an UPCOMING change of direction to the dog, but they don't always require the dog make that move NOW - it's just designed to continue to keep you on the inside path, and you don't always have to have the dog 'switch legs' in stride.


----------



## elrohwen

I should've specified rear crossing a jump. Tunnels and dog walks are slightly different (I guess unless you have a true running dog walk where the lead come into effect). The curved tunnel example is still an example of a lead change while rear crossing.

So if you rear crossed on jump 2 out of 4 for example, your dog wouldn't swap leads as you were crossing? What would signal the lead change later? Just a cue for the next obstacle that obviously required a turn?


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I should've specified rear crossing a jump. Tunnels and dog walks are slightly different (I guess unless you have a true running dog walk where the lead come into effect). The curved tunnel example is still an example of a lead change while rear crossing.
> 
> So if you rear crossed on jump 2 out of 4 for example, your dog wouldn't swap leads as you were crossing? What would signal the lead change later? Just a cue for the next obstacle that obviously required a turn?


. All it means is handler is now on the opposite side of the dog. Or, yeah, I misread, the next obstacle that happened to require a turn. Most dogs know you're supposed to be on the inside path, though, and that may well be a signal to the dog to change. I don't know. I just know that a plain rear doesn't produce a turn in the dog, and certainly not one away from the handler. 

In the case of the curved tunnel, the dog doesn't have to 'switch out' to get into the tunnel - so it's a plain rear if the opening to the tunnel is in a straight path. You can pull the dog to line it up, or send ahead and cut directly behind them, but the lead they enter that tunnel on doesn't change until the path inside the tunnel forces it. With jumps, again, not really. If I 'switch' between 3 nd 4, the dog's lead leg is changing NOW, and the dog is going to have to basically do a skip, pivot its butt out 90 degrees (or whatever) to take the jump. If I have swapped before that point (done a plain rear cross), the dog is going to do a 'here' and come in and change lead legs, but it could be the next obstacle, it could be 4 obstacles from now, it could be never if the dog 'straightens up' or while they're in that straight line of path. 

Basically, a 'switch/tandem turn' for me requires the dog make a specific action and change lead leg RIGHT NOW, the result of which is the dog's path changing at some angle to the previous one RIGHT NOW. There's an actual turn. A rear cross can be for a turn that could be the next obstacle or could be 5 obstacle or more down the road. The dog does nothing, at that point, frankly, except continue to run/take the obstacle you told them to, with you on the other side. That may or may not signal a lead change for the dog, but the dog's path doesn't change immediately. The dog's path changes when you say "HERE" or pull the dog in to that obstacle at the turn, wherever it may be.


----------



## CptJack

This doesn't mean I'm right. It does mean that sometimes I just cut behind my dog and she has to turn into me instead of away from me, and the point she needs to do that varies on course. 

Truthfully toward me rather than 'away' is probably the biggest difference. As well as 'when'. But for all I know this isn't a real thing at all, just something that works.


----------



## elrohwen

Sorry, I'm just being a beginner here trying to figure this stuff out. My background is horses and lead changes are a big deal (because they're big and you're sitting on them and it requires more effort to do a lead change than a dog does). It seems like it would be efficient to cue the lead change itself if you could, even if it was a few obstacles early. Changing leads over a jump is physically easier than changing leads on the flat. And I'm not even talking about the tandem turn anymore, just rear crosses in general. If the dog will eventually have to be on a new lead, couldn't you build that into your rear cross cue? Or put it on a verbal?

ETA: The toward vs away part makes a lot of sense for rear vs switch.


----------



## CptJack

Pft, I'm just trying to figure it out, too! 

Truthfully, I think there are verbals that are built into it. When you come out of the line after you've cut behind, the 'HERE" pulls the dog in toward you and I think that sort of signals the lead and direction change toward the handler. Likewise the 'switch' seems to be a general 'lead change away from me'. It's just that for me I find it much easier to pull the dog in, so if I can get that cut behind earlier rather than having to force her out and away from me with a sharper angle along with the switch, I probably will. 

I don't really use a verbal cue for a rear cross, though, not to signal it as it's happening and not usually. At least not the ones I'm talking about here. I just cut behind the dog. She's committed to and taking an obstacle while that's in progress, so when she lands she's down and turning toward the direction I went, anyway. If she's not, well. The 'here' is there, but it's when she's back on the ground. 

There IS a verbal associated with the other thing (and it's switch).


----------



## elrohwen

I know that at least the way we're learning it does include a lead change on the verbal. But then we're still at the stage of doing the rear right when the actual turn is going to happen, not a couple jumps ahead of time where the dog keeps going straight. But the flat work and initial training does involve a lead change each time. 

ETA: I can see why in special circumstances you might want the dog to counter canter and not change leads for some reason, but again, too advanced for me.

Also, just because it's kind of funny, Watson likes to rear cross me sometimes. It's not often and I haven't really figured out why he does it, but we're running along and suddenly there's an "oh crap" moment when he's on my other side. I think he forgets what he's doing and starts to drift when there's too much space between obstacles. lol


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, our formal stuff, particularly early on, it was all about actual switches. Basically flipping the dog out and away from you, even on leash. Then with obstacles at angles. We're still trying to work that crap out with Kylie on one side without the spin. The other thing came up as part of that period we were doing course analysis. "Where can I get the dog on the opposite side?" Like where in the course can you make those changes and the answers aren't always where the turns are. 

or I'm making it up as I go along, but that wouldn't be the first time. 

Also LOL WATSON. He's such a mama's boy - and silly boy.


----------



## CptJack

Also worth mentioning again because I keep forgetting it: 

NADAC: We have a lot of wide open spaces and long sweeping arcs that do not exist in other venues.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Also worth mentioning again because I keep forgetting it:
> 
> NADAC: We have a lot of wide open spaces and long sweeping arcs that do not exist in other venues.


That's true. It might make a lot more sense to me if I saw typical NADAC type courses. Hazel's group class is collection, collection, collection. Our private lessons are a bit of both - it's a much bigger arena so you can fit in a lot more extension - though the instructor mostly does AKC and USDAA I think.

Watson is such a dope. At least once per lesson I swear he forgets what we're doing and is like "I'm running! I love running! Running with mom is the best! Running running running!" as he lopes along with a dopey look on his face. And then almost runs into a jump. But, on the positive side, when we get it together he's so easy to run because he isn't very fast, and he's usually paying attention to me.


----------



## CptJack

I got curious and went to look, and honestly minimum ring size for AKC novice is 5,000 square feet, max required is 8,000 square feet. Minimum ring size for NADAC at any level is 9,000, and more typical is 10,000. I feel like that is pretty telling on its own about both layout and what the dog's doing and distance of obstacles (dog's path between most obstacles is set at 18-21 feet). There is a actually quite a bit of 'space' and some time to pull things that would be almost impossible on a USDAA or AKC course, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h13q_pE5rI8 These are from champs so the courses are longer, but the sort of spacing and general layout/type of challege is typical.

ETA: ALso that's my friend!

ETA: And round 6 is a particularly good example of both using a hard switch and just cutting behind to create the turn. Not too hard to imagine space to cross behind without immediately turning in some of those, either, though those courses aren't laid out in a way that makes it most conducive. Or I've been cheating, IDK.


----------



## elrohwen

I definitely see what you mean about the course being flowing, and run in full extension all the time. The courses in our private lessons are sort of like that, because the arena is huge, and because we're green and not ready for more twisty stuff. But that's just how we run the obstacles that are already set up - for more advanced classes it's much less flowing.

In Hazel's group class, if your dog isn't collecting well on the first couple jumps, you stop and just work those for your turn. No extension allowed. Haha. The space we're in is also tiny (they have a bigger outdoor space for 2/3 of the year, but we're indoors for winter) which limits setting up courses where you have more than a couple strides between jumps anyway. The collection work is so good for Hazel though because she is so bad at it right now.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, we have definite issues when we're doing indoor classes. It's not that the space is small, it's that it's not conducive to THAT. I really like NADAC and it's a lot of fun, but the further in I get the more I realize how different it is. They are all about SPEED - and discriminations and distance. Directionals are in there, too, but it's not the same as other venues really at all. The dogs are WIDE OPEN when they're going. 

Collection work is good, period. I actually backed off and worked with Kylie a little after our last talk. Unsurprisingly, it's improved her weave entries adn contacts. The only place she needs it, but good to have! 

...I swear that video is not representative of her typical speeds. We do sometimes need her to SLOW DOWN TO HIT THE THING OMG.


----------



## elrohwen

Looks like a good workout for the handler too - lots of running!


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Z-XA4UvfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR9J0XtmgdY

Or absolutely none. This is... not entirely atypical for some of the more advanced handlers - not required, though Chances (where they stick some part of the course behind a line you can't cross) is, at least for NATCH. The above is a 'bonus box' run, or actually possibly just stakes, I don't know, but there's a LOT of distance in NADAC.

It's pretty much crazy distance or run, though!


----------



## elrohwen

That's insane. Does the handler have to stay in that taped off section? Or is he choosing to do that?


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> That's insane. Does the handler have to stay in that taped off section? Or is he choosing to do that?


He's choosing to do that for a 20 (instead of 10) point Q - I think. If not, he's chosen to enter a class at champs that focuses on distance a LOT, so it's the point. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u53zG7zzGq8 - THIS however is a regular class at trials and required for NATCH (ie: NADAC Mach) Way less insane but still bloody freaking hard (says me, and my ankle clinging dog)


----------



## CptJack

(Also Crazy Man in the box is a judge for our june trial. I'm excited.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Way less insane but still bloody freaking hard (says me, and my ankle clinging dog)


I feel like little dogs have trouble with distance across the board. I hear it a lot from people who train little dogs. I guess the distance seems so much further when your legs are that tiny.


----------



## Canyx

Love it! Having seen AKC for my whole dog owning life and then seeing someone do the distance work in NADAC was mind blowing. The instructor I was watching is a very soft spoken woman too so I could barely here what she was saying and every maneuver was just one short cue. VERY smooth and mellow especially 'driving' a fast border collie through the obstacle.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I feel like little dogs have trouble with distance across the board. I hear it a lot from people who train little dogs. I guess the distance seems so much further when your legs are that tiny.


Yeah. You get one good stride out of some of the bigger dogs and they're basically there, and have the momentum to go further without too much work, particularly in lower levels where the line's 'only' 15-20 feet or so out. The littler dogs have to take a LOT of steps away from you to get the distance, and that can be really rough on them, I think. 



Canyx said:


> Love it! Having seen AKC for my whole dog owning life and then seeing someone do the distance work in NADAC was mind blowing. The instructor I was watching is a very soft spoken woman too so I could barely here what she was saying and every maneuver was just one short cue. VERY smooth and mellow especially 'driving' a fast border collie through the obstacle.


We've only really been doing more distance work (as opposed to foundations for distance) over maybe the last month, and I love it. It's HARD (at least for Kylie), but man it's a rush. Watching people who do it well it all kinds of incredible, too. It's just BEAUTIFUL.


----------



## CptJack

So, practice tonight was awesome. We didn't stay long at all and only ran one of the two courses, but yesterday's lesson and today I've noticed something changing with Kylie. 

Kylie only has two modes, really: Fast, confident, happy, and a little bit sloppy and hard to control (needs some pretty strong push/pull signals, won't turn off her path once she's made up her mind, etc) or much cleaner but also slower and less confident. 

The past couple of times we've been out there, I'm seeing precise and clean with frequent check ins and a LOT of responsiveness to my handling come together with FAST AND HAPPY. Even moving at good speed - really running - I've had a few times where I've SEEN HER look up or back to me and adjust her path in response to me, without breaking stride or going flat. 

I feel like we're becoming a REAL TEAM. I don't know how trial will go, but I'm kind of high on the direction we're moving now.


----------



## kadylady

Girls had a great day yesterday, we played CPE agility. Zoey was 3 for 3 and Skye was 4 for 5. We were at the lake on Saturday so both girls were a little tired I think. But both picked it up as the day went on. Zoey had a super slow Standard run but a better Jumpers run when I kind of just took off ahead of her lol She caught up! Skye had some really nice weaves, twice I rear crossed them, she's really starting to get some independence there. She was super slow coming down to hit her Aframe contacts though, which was odd and something she has never done. I'm chalking it up to being tired and hoping it doesn't become a trend. She had the fastest Colors and Jumpers runs of any of the dogs in Levels 3/4/5/C!! She was 5.8 yds/sec in Jumpers!! Overall, happy with both girls. 

Here's Skye's runs:





Here's Zoey's runs: 





Oh and we are in for CPE Nationals (unofficially)! The premium stated the limit was 700 entries and if over there would be a random draw. Well, they got over 700 entries and they took them all, so no draw!! Super excited! Zoey is 4 Q's away from finishing Level 4 and I'm really hoping to be able to move her up to Level 5 for everything at Nationals. Final move up date is the beginning of May and we've got at least 2, possibly 3 trials between now and then.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> AKC National Agility Championships starting now!
> 
> http://www.akcagilityresults.com/results/
> 
> http://4leggedflix.com/live-stream/


My one trainer that I love was there with her dog. I heard she finished 5th!


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> AKC Agility National Championship starting now!
> 
> http://4leggedflix.com/live-stream/
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLTnM0E1wkPG30ttE1AgCRj5ncHzkhkxlf&v=Jma7RsjqSfg
> 
> http://www.akcagilityresults.com/results/


My one trainer was there, I heard she finished 5th.


----------



## CptJack

Bug gets to start intermediate agility on Tuesday! This is totally unexpected, but we're skipping beginner and taking that slot and we get to stay out of the building during mid-summer and PLAY! SOON!

ETA: Also means I should be able to put her in our June Trial! It's a games trial so not quite sure in what, but *something*.


----------



## CptJack

One more Jumpers Q, one more Weavers and we'll be chances away from Novice Versatility. ...I kind of suspect it's going to be a while, though. LOL.


----------



## CptJack

I run like a pregnant yak, my timing is terrible, and I handle clouds. 

My dog, however, has some nice skills. If only I could figure out how to put those skills together in an efficient way. Or at least do my dog justice. 

Anyway. 8 runs, 6 Qs. We didn't get Chances yesterday and our Tunneler's run today was a lot of fun - and funny. To the tune of 'her tunnelers run ended up being slower than her weavers run, not because the dog wasn't moving but because of pure... zoomie, basically.' I only run tunnelers at all because she gets so silly and cracker-jack-y about it. Which does not make for a high Q rate. I could not care less (about the Q rate. I clearly care a lot about the fun, because I keep entering it).. 

1 more Q in Weavers, 2 more in Chances, and we have Novice Versatility. 

1 more Q in TNG, and we have Open Touch 'n' Go. 

Next weekend, we do it again and we'll see what we see - and run our first elite regular course in a trial.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Oh my gosh Kylie! She looks like she is having soo much fun! Good job you guys.


----------



## elrohwen

Yay Kylie! She's so fast!


----------



## ireth0

So we had our first class on Friday!

We worked on a lot of foundational skills that we were already familiar with (eye contact, hand targeting, general clicker training, etc), but some of the class wasn't. Never hurts to review or up criteria. 

Luna was demo dog with the instructor for collar grabs, and she did very well!

One of the things I was excited to work on was creating rules for tug in order to use as a reward. Luna was very into tug, but tugging with her is a full body workout and we were tugging off and on for like... 5 mins straight. Toward the end I was like 'good lord, can we be done now?' At one point the instructor was going around the group asking if our dogs knew a release word. She got to us and I was holding the tug still while Luna was *tug* *tug* *tug* *tug* on the end. "What about Luna?" Everyone just laughed. "Yea, no."

I was very proud of her overall good behaviour during class. There were a few times when other dogs started freaking out barking at something and she was good and stayed quiet and didn't move from her mat. Also, when we first got there we were in a sort of mud room before you go to the main space, and there were 5 dogs and like 7-10 people crammed in there waiting to be allowed in the main space. Luna was so good and gave me attention and a sit when I asked for it, didn't try to sniff and of the people or other dogs or anything. 

Excited for next week!


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Oh my gosh Kylie! She looks like she is having soo much fun! Good job you guys.





elrohwen said:


> Yay Kylie! She's so fast!


Thanks, guys. I sit around and could nitpick those videos to death for my mistakes, but bottom line: Dog's tail didn't stop wagging and she did everything I asked. 

She's also speeding up re: Completed course time. She only had 2 runs this weekend that were under 3.5 YPS (which, okay, isn't blazing but still). One of those was weavers, which. Yeah, she's still slow weaving in trials and the other one was tunnelers which just had, shall we say, a lot of running time that didn't involve an obstacle. 

Good weekend. 

Tomorrow, Bug has her first class in, oh, 2 years so we shall see what we shall see. Then I flop and wait for next weekend's trial. We're entered in our first elite regular and our first open jumpers, so we'll see. I'm more concerned about jumpers than regular, at this point. ...I hate jumpers. We only need one more Q for our T'n'G open title and one more to get novice weavers. If I get novice weavers I'm probably ignoring weavers for the rest of the year. It could be an eventful trial! Or just an exhausting one - new place, further out by quite a bit, and bigger by all accounts.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I run like a pregnant yak, my timing is terrible, and I handle clouds.
> 
> My dog, however, has some nice skills. If only I could figure out how to put those skills together in an efficient way. Or at least do my dog justice.
> 
> Anyway. 8 runs, 6 Qs. We didn't get Chances yesterday and our Tunneler's run today was a lot of fun - and funny. To the tune of 'her tunnelers run ended up being slower than her weavers run, not because the dog wasn't moving but because of pure... zoomie, basically.' I only run tunnelers at all because she gets so silly and cracker-jack-y about it. Which does not make for a high Q rate. I could not care less (about the Q rate. I clearly care a lot about the fun, because I keep entering it)..
> 
> 1 more Q in Weavers, 2 more in Chances, and we have Novice Versatility.
> 
> 1 more Q in TNG, and we have Open Touch 'n' Go.
> 
> Next weekend, we do it again and we'll see what we see - and run our first elite regular course in a trial.


Awesome! That was fun to watch! Kylie always seems larger to me in photos than what she really is. She reminds me of Belle in some ways in her running.


----------



## dogsule

kadylady said:


> Girls had a great day yesterday, we played CPE agility. Zoey was 3 for 3 and Skye was 4 for 5. We were at the lake on Saturday so both girls were a little tired I think. But both picked it up as the day went on. Zoey had a super slow Standard run but a better Jumpers run when I kind of just took off ahead of her lol She caught up! Skye had some really nice weaves, twice I rear crossed them, she's really starting to get some independence there. She was super slow coming down to hit her Aframe contacts though, which was odd and something she has never done. I'm chalking it up to being tired and hoping it doesn't become a trend. She had the fastest Colors and Jumpers runs of any of the dogs in Levels 3/4/5/C!! She was 5.8 yds/sec in Jumpers!! Overall, happy with both girls.
> 
> Here's Skye's runs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's Zoey's runs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and we are in for CPE Nationals (unofficially)! The premium stated the limit was 700 entries and if over there would be a random draw. Well, they got over 700 entries and they took them all, so no draw!! Super excited! Zoey is 4 Q's away from finishing Level 4 and I'm really hoping to be able to move her up to Level 5 for everything at Nationals. Final move up date is the beginning of May and we've got at least 2, possibly 3 trials between now and then.


Great runs!!


----------



## gingerkid

In our third class, we worked on "flip", the Table, the A-frame and then "ran" a short course (jump, table, tunnel, A-frame). It was a really good class, and I realized although Ida has a "table" command very solidly for the fruit crate in our living room, she definitely hadn't generalized it. Which makes sense considering I had only worked on it in that specific space with that specific item; a good note to take away for working on contacts, especially.

Speaking of which, any tips for working on contacts at home without actual equipment? I've been using the stairs, which is what our trainer recommended, but something that's not as tight/steep would be nice.

And in a non-agility note, she is getting less and less reactive which each class, although I do need to remember to carry more treats actually on me (instead of leaving them in my bag) to shove in her face when we're lined up to run the course.


----------



## dogsule

I feel like I have been out of the loop like forever! Missed that trial 2 weeks ago because of Belle's eye, there was a trail this past Easter weekend but I couldn't go because of Easter and the fact that we go out of town up to my moms every Easter. Next trial is April 30th! That will be over 2 months in between! Hopefully I can get plenty of training in, in the mean time. Class tonight and hopefully Wednesday too.

Going to my moms this past weekend, the van engine started smoking!! So glad my husband was driving and not me by myself or with Belle on the way to a trial! Thankfully we were only about 5 miles from home and he turned around and drove back. No warning lights went on and the engine wasn't over heating or anything. He knew it was a radiator line though and when we got home found it was a clamp on a radiator line and the y hose connecting to it. About and hour and a half and $30 later we were back on the road. Thankfully he knows how to fix these things. Would have been a lot more than that if we had to take it in, radiator fluid all over the driveway and the engine! Still stinks a bit when we drive it had to hose the driveway off good.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Great runs!!


Thanks! I think a lot of people who have only seen photos have that impression of her. She's a little thing. Who scampers 

We've got a trial next weekend and then one the same weekend as you. After that only one trial until September when it gets busy-ish again. Seems to be how things run here - several in a row, then a pretty big break with one in the middle, then several more.



gingerkid said:


> In our third class, we worked on "flip", the Table, the A-frame and then "ran" a short course (jump, table, tunnel, A-frame). It was a really good class, and I realized although Ida has a "table" command very solidly for the fruit crate in our living room, she definitely hadn't generalized it. Which makes sense considering I had only worked on it in that specific space with that specific item; a good note to take away for working on contacts, especially.
> 
> Speaking of which, any tips for working on contacts at home without actual equipment? I've been using the stairs, which is what our trainer recommended, but something that's not as tight/steep would be nice.
> 
> And in a non-agility note, she is getting less and less reactive which each class, although I do need to remember to carry more treats actually on me (instead of leaving them in my bag) to shove in her face when we're lined up to run the course.


Congrats on the reactivity getting better!

Um, my suggestion re: contacts is actually just find some kind of board. You can prop it up if you want to make it more steep later, but starting with it flat on the ground, even, is well worth it. Sidewalk curbs. Stumps. Rocks. Your car (like open the door). Whatever.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Um, my suggestion re: contacts is actually just find some kind of board. You can prop it up if you want to make it more steep later, but starting with it flat on the ground, even, is well worth it. Sidewalk curbs. Stumps. Rocks. Your car (like open the door). Whatever.


Yeah, this is what I was going to say. I have a board raised up on 2x2s. It's only 3ft because that's what we had sitting around, but longer would be good so you can more easily incline it later. 

I would also teach her to drive to a target, because a target is something you can use in class with real equipment and it should help her generalize the work on the pretend contacts vs the equipment. Some people have the dog do a sustained nose touch to the target. Or you could just teach them to wait at the target until a treat appears.


----------



## elrohwen

Got Hazel signed up for agility classes in our new area, starting the first Friday I'm in town. I'm really excited about it! I asked how they run classes, and said I'm used to having a few levels of class where people hang out at one level for a while until they get it. So dogs typically have a wide range of abilities in each class. Sounds like this place is much more structured, with four foundations sessions (we're starting at level 3), several pre-novice, etc. They have a syllabus for each class, and advance through classes on a schedule. In addition to the class, they hand out course analysis homework every week. The majority of the time slots are filled by Open and Masters classes (which are all full), so I'm really lucky we were able to snag a spot in a class that is right at Hazel's level.

Not sure what we'll do with Watson. Another trainer at the same place is going to do privates with us, but I'm not sure he can do every week, and I'm not sure Watson is ready to join a group class. He really needs to go at his own pace, and I think he would feel pressured and fall behind in a really structured group class, even if we started below the level that he's currently working at.


----------



## Sibe

No class last week because spring break, and this week is canceled due to unforeseen circumstances. Denali has a trial this weekend. Looks like I'm taking my jumps and 2x2s to a couple parks to practice! I typically don't do any equipment stuff at home.


----------



## gingerkid

Well we did some contact work tonight on the stairs again. If I lure Ida down the stairs to the landing with food hidden in my hand, (even if I moved that hand to the treat pouch before giving the food to her), she held the contact until I released her, even for upwards of 15 seconds. If I lured her without the hidden food, she immediately broke her position as soon as my hand disappeared from in front of her face, like not even enough time for me to get my hand into the treat pouch, let alone pick up a treat and give it back to her. Didn't seem to matter how many times I lured her with the food in my hand, the duration I waited before releasing/rewarding her, etc. Frustrating.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I'm sure Ida will get better with some practice! I love seeing more people get involved in agility. It is such a fun sport! 

I had signed up for a trial for march but it ended up being full before I could get in. So I haven't been trialing at all. Thankfully we have a trial once a month pretty much every month.. and I'm already signing up for them way in advance so I can friggin get in. Kairi does a really nice job overall with pretty much everything EXCEPT collection. This is our biggest weakness right now. It is all about driving forward to whatever is in front of her face. Thankfully it is warm enough to pull out the equipment and practice! I can't wait to get to some trials.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I'm sure Ida will get better with some practice! I love seeing more people get involved in agility. It is such a fun sport!
> 
> I had signed up for a trial for march but it ended up being full before I could get in. So I haven't been trialing at all. Thankfully we have a trial once a month pretty much every month.. and I'm already signing up for them way in advance so I can friggin get in. Kairi does a really nice job overall with pretty much everything EXCEPT collection. This is our biggest weakness right now. It is all about driving forward to whatever is in front of her face. Thankfully it is warm enough to pull out the equipment and practice! I can't wait to get to some trials.


Collection is Hazel's biggest problem too and I forsee it being a problem we work on throughout her agility career. What types of exercises are you planning to do at home? I need ideas


----------



## CptJack

I am getting ready to take Bug to an intermediate agility class 2 years after she took foundations and without ever having gone to beginner. I... shall report back, but I'm reasonably sure that report will be deeply amusing.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

elrohwen said:


> Collection is Hazel's biggest problem too and I forsee it being a problem we work on throughout her agility career. What types of exercises are you planning to do at home? I need ideas


Haha! Hazel is going to be a lot of fun!

I can generally manage with screaming "RIGHT HERE RIGHT HERE" but my instructor has me doing a specific kind of stance right now as a collection cue. It is kind of hard to explain without seeing it. I have a straight line of jumps and I'm rewarding Kai for slowing down and coming to me with the collection stance thing, then will build from that. I mean, she reads crosses most of the time but not really deceleration. SO sometimes needs something that just screams SLOW THE HECK DOWN FOR A SEC AND COME HERE so hopefully this helps.


----------



## CptJack

CptJack said:


> I am getting ready to take Bug to an intermediate agility class 2 years after she took foundations and without ever having gone to beginner. I... shall report back, but I'm reasonably sure that report will be deeply amusing.


Nope, I lied. She's magically fine. I don't know how or why, but fine.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Some dogs never seem to forget what they have learned especially in agility. Kiska is 9 years old and has not done any Agility for over five years. She really liked doing it when we were inside, getting her only three Q's in Jumper, Gamblers and Snooker at our only indoor trial. I finally stopped with her as she was too stressed doing it outside and was obviously not enjoying it.

A while ago I took her with me when I went to do Agility with Remmy and she happily ran the course with no mistakes. I never did train her with the weaves but she does all the other obstacles.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> Some dogs never seem to forget what they have learned especially in agility. Kiska is 9 years old and has not done any Agility for over five years. She really liked doing it when we were inside, getting her only three Q's in Jumper, Gamblers and Snooker at our only indoor trial. I finally stopped with her as she was too stressed doing it outside and was obviously not enjoying it.
> 
> A while ago I took her with me when I went to do Agility with Remmy and she happily ran the course with no mistakes. I never did train her with the weaves but she does all the other obstacles.


Yeah, I'm mostly just surprised by how well she did with the equipment. Granted, we have everything but a dog walk at home but it LOOKED different. I wouldn't let her do their a-frame because the surfacing is wearing off and it's not slatted (ie: It's fairly slick), but aside from having to be 'lured' through a really curved tunnel once she did well. And she hasn't done the beginner class, so I felt like there'd be more gap. 

There just wasn't. Oh, she was kind of slow, and she had to check every piece of fluff on the floor to make sure it wasn't cheese and she jumped off the dog walk once (it was lowered, and we were spotting, she just bailed), but she was un-bothered. She did some several obstacle long sequences, read crosses well and just was a nice little dog who was a friendly, funny, sweet delight. 

I doubt I'll ever finish teaching her to weave or do more than intro with her, but I fully intend to do intro with her in a few weeks and expect her to enjoy the experience.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and for fun, this class is:
A redbone coonhound
A giant schnauzer
An aussie
A JRT
Bug
And a huskyX

One of the students? Is a dog trainer. She is, also, in fact, the woman who cornered me at one of the other training events at the park when I had Molly, gave me advice I didn't ask for, and refused to back away from Molly/insisted on feeding Molly while I scrambled to get Molly away and Molly hugged the ground in terror. GUESS HOW HAPPY I AM ABOUT THAT.

I am utterly anti-confrontational, (and also a grown up) plus she does not remember me at all, but yeah. I had a MOMENT.


----------



## ireth0

Ooh yea, our agility class is;
Luna
BC (possibly being switched for a poodle- which I think is a shame)
Aussie
German Wirehair pointer pup (9months or so)
Lab mix (possibly with hound)
German wirehair pointer/great pyr mix (looks like a wolfhound with pointer type spots)
Irish wolfhound


----------



## kadylady

Nice job CptJack! Kylie is so cute and happy! 

Skye is back to working on a full height teeter! What a frickin relief. Now I just have to manage the heck out of her when we start trying to add it back in at trials so she doesn't scare herself again. She did great with it in class Monday night, so I'm super relieved. Teeter issues suck big time! 

Also, I love our new agility class on Monday night. So much more challenging for both girls and for me. Classes are both the same so we run the same course, I just have Zoey in the first class and Skye in the second. And it's so great for me to be practicing and continuing to learn how differently I need to handle my 2 dogs. Skye's weaves were phenomenal this week, Zoey decided that 10 poles were plenty and 12 was overkill. Silly girl.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Haha! Hazel is going to be a lot of fun!
> 
> I can generally manage with screaming "RIGHT HERE RIGHT HERE" but my instructor has me doing a specific kind of stance right now as a collection cue. It is kind of hard to explain without seeing it. I have a straight line of jumps and I'm rewarding Kai for slowing down and coming to me with the collection stance thing, then will build from that. I mean, she reads crosses most of the time but not really deceleration. SO sometimes needs something that just screams SLOW THE HECK DOWN FOR A SEC AND COME HERE so hopefully this helps.


Is it the stance where you have your right foot pointed towards the dog, left food pointed left, and you call the dog into your right hand and then make a 90deg turn right? (obviously this works the other way too). We learned that in the FDSA Agility I course, and Hazel's group instructor has us do a lot of that when dogs aren't collecting at all. I think Loretta Mueller calls it "call to side and heel" because the dog is coming into your side and then you make the 90deg turn so they end up in heel. 

Of course that's just foundations and not how you'd cue on a course, but we're not even to the point of cueing collection and deceleration in a more practical way, because Hazel tends to blow past cues that aren't really big and loud. Haha. "Oh, you were trying to do a front cross there and I kept running straight? Whoops" Totally opposite of Watson who is watching me so closely that he's run into jumps before.



CptJack said:


> Nope, I lied. She's magically fine. I don't know how or why, but fine.


Go Bug! I knew she'd be a good girl


----------



## Kyllobernese

Since the snow has finally almost all gone, for the past few weeks my sister has been building us a bunch of new jumps and painted them, redid the surface and painted our teeter plus building another frame for it so we can start it really low for Bonnie and Toupau (her Golden) as both of them have issues with the teeter so we have not done any teeter work with either at the arena as it is a very noisy teeter. We are also going to widen our dog walk as the one we have was made for small dogs which was fine until now when we both have bigger dogs. Can hardly wait to start training outside as well as in the arena. We will also have to redo our A-frame, paint it and add some more grit to the surface.

My yard is still 3/4 covered with snow as I have a lot of trees while hers is absolutely bare now as well as being a larger area.


----------



## CptJack

I guess it's time for me to start prepping - or at least thinking about - this weekend's trial. 

I'm running Elite Regular and Open Jumpers for the first time, and doing Chances and Weavers - also doing a round of T'n'G. Theoretically if I hit everything I could walk out with three titles and award. Realistically, that's not going to happen. The simple fact of the matter is, we're almost exclusively doing things we rarely enter in, or levels we've never done. We're doing it in a new location, with people we're rarely around (because it's in NC), and it's indoors. All of these things combine in ways where my expectation of this weekend is really just to get some experience on those courses and at another indoor venue and to use that to get even more ready for our home trial at the end of the month. 

Wherein I will probably enter Bug in a couple of rounds, too, because why not.


----------



## jade5280

We finished up our intro to agility class on Monday and I decided to continue on with it so our next class starts this upcoming Monday!


----------



## elrohwen

jade5280 said:


> We finished up our intro to agility class on Monday and I decided to continue on with it so our next class starts this upcoming Monday!


Yay! Glad you guys are sticking with it!


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel rocked out her fancy agility leash at our lesson last night  I'm glad my vest has a big toy pocket because there was no way I was dropping it on the dirty arena floor. It's too pretty to get dirty. Haha. She was *so excited* when I pulled it out of the bag (she didn't know I had it until it was her turn).


----------



## jade5280

elrohwen said:


> Hazel rocked out her fancy agility leash at our lesson last night  I'm glad my vest has a big toy pocket because there was no way I was dropping it on the dirty arena floor. It's too pretty to get dirty. Haha. She was *so excited* when I pulled it out of the bag (she didn't know I had it until it was her turn).


I love it! Do you let her chew on it? How come these are so popular with agility people? Wouldn't it be easier to keep a collar on and just unclip the leash or are collars not allowed in trials? Maybe it's a safety hazard. I want an excuse to get Panzer one haha.


----------



## CptJack

jade5280 said:


> I love it! Do you let her chew on it? How come these are so popular with agility people? Wouldn't it be easier to keep a collar on and just unclip the leash or are collars not allowed in trials? Maybe it's a safety hazard. I want an excuse to get Panzer one haha.


There are some venues that allow collars without tags, but the one I'm with does not. You also have to be able to get the dog leashed at the end quickly and it's much easier to lasso the dog (not really but drop the leash over their head) without fumbling around to find the ring and get the clip on when your breathless and riding and adrenaline high yourself (and the dog's excited). The fleece lip or martingale leashes and Julius Harnesses are both popular amongst 'my crowd'.


----------



## jade5280

CptJack said:


> There are some venues that allow collars without tags, but the one I'm with does not. You also have to be able to get the dog leashed at the end quickly and it's much easier to lasso the dog (not really but drop the leash over their head) without fumbling around to find the ring and get the clip on when your breathless and riding and adrenaline high yourself (and the dog's excited). The fleece lip or martingale leashes and Julius Harnesses are both popular amongst 'my crowd'.


So they allow harnesses, but not collars? Is it because of safety? I figured it would be easier to grab a run away dog if it had a collar on, but maybe that doesn't happen enough to be a concern.


----------



## CptJack

jade5280 said:


> So they allow harnesses, but not collars? Is it because of safety? I figured it would be easier to grab a run away dog if it had a collar on, but maybe that doesn't happen enough to be a concern.


No, the dog's run naked in NADAC and have to. Even where something it allowed it's a flat collar without tags or anything dangling. The harness is just easy to throw on and off over the dog's head - compared to fiddling with leashing/unleashing with a clip.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> There are some venues that allow collars without tags, but the one I'm with does not. You also have to be able to get the dog leashed at the end quickly and it's much easier to lasso the dog (not really but drop the leash over their head) without fumbling around to find the ring and get the clip on when your breathless and riding and adrenaline high yourself (and the dog's excited). The fleece lip or martingale leashes and Julius Harnesses are both popular amongst 'my crowd'.


Yep, basically this. I do still leave her regular collar on because it's useful to grab her or to hold on to her when we do restrained type things (like restraining her then releasing her to run the aframe, or recalls over a jump grid, or whatever), but it's nice to have something I can slip over her head easily. The clips on my leashes are kinda small and after I've been running around and my hands are greasy from food I tend to fumble with the clip. And the fleece doubles as a tug reward so I don't really need another toy (unless I need something throwable). Though on the negative side, most people drop their leash on the floor during class and dropping her favorite fleece toy is going to be harder to work through than dropping a regular leash, so we'll see how that goes. She can work around toys at home but it's a lot harder for her in classes. But I can always keep it in my pocket like I did last night.


----------



## jade5280

Oh I see. Panzer doesn't like it when I put collars on him he always runs away so I think I would have to do a lot of desensitizing to a martingale leash/collar combo.


----------



## elrohwen

It's so cute that I need an excuse to get Watson one. The chance he will tug with it in a class or trial is about zero, but it's so cute! And still has the practical part about being easy on/off.



jade5280 said:


> Oh I see. Panzer doesn't like it when I put collars on him he always runs away so I think I would have to do a lot of desensitizing to a martingale leash/collar combo.


I just did an FDSA class with Julie Daniels and she teaches all of her dogs to drive into the collar with their heads. It becomes kind of a game and self-reinforcing thing that she can do at the end of an agility run where she gets her martingale leash and the dog shoves his head through. And it's practical to train so they don't run away from collars going on.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> It's so cute that I need an excuse to get Watson one. The chance he will tug with it in a class or trial is about zero, but it's so cute! And still has the practical part about being easy on/off.
> 
> 
> 
> I just did an FDSA class with Julie Daniels and she teaches all of her dogs to drive into the collar with their heads. It becomes kind of a game and self-reinforcing thing that she can do at the end of an agility run where she gets her martingale leash and the dog shoves his head through. And it's practical to train so they don't run away from collars going on.


Kylie never tugs her leash, but she certainly has fleece ones. The easy on/off still applies and they're still the most pleasant leashes I own to hold. Heck, the dogs aren't even ALLOWED to tug in our venue, but. 

Bug's harder for me for similar reasons to Panzer. She doesn't want to let me reach around or behind her to take things off, but spins and looks around to see what my hands are doing - but she can't use a collar period, much less a slip on. Awkward.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Kylie never tugs her leash, but she certainly has fleece ones. The easy on/off still applies and they're still the most pleasant leashes I own to hold. Heck, the dogs aren't even ALLOWED to tug in our venue, but.


I'm afraid he would pull it out of my hands. Sometimes he just lunges for something and I like my braided leather leashes because they're really grippy. Though I guess he's less likely to lunge during agility when were aren't training in a barn with barn cats all over. lol I'll have to see how I like it for Hazel first. Maybe he can get one for his birthday in August.


----------



## jade5280

How did she teach them to do that? Luring with food? I don't understand it. Both Ryker and Panzer don't like me putting on collars or harnesses. Gypsy is the only one that gets excited when I take her collar out.


----------



## elrohwen

Yeah, she started with luring. So food in your hand with the collar around your arm (it helps to have something big like a martingale that's easy on and off). Then while dog is eating, move collar from your arm over their head. Then build up to shaping the dog to push their head through while you hold the collar still. I've done that type of thing with Watson and he shoves his head into the head halter, though I've gotten him to leave it on without a fuss. He's pretty good about collars and stuff, except the Ruffwear Front Range harness - he hates that harness.


----------



## ireth0

Yep, collar grab game is one of the first things we did in class last week. Our end goal is to shape it so when you hold your hand out like you're going to grab, the dog takes that as a cue to shove their head into your hand.


----------



## elrohwen

ireth0 said:


> Yep, collar grab game is one of the first things we did in class last week. Our end goal is to shape it so when you hold your hand out like you're going to grab, the dog takes that as a cue to shove their head into your hand.


Are you also shaping to put on a collar? Or just grab? I think both are useful for agility, though the collar grab more so at first. But I don't see many people teach the collar on behavior except for Julie


----------



## ireth0

elrohwen said:


> Are you also shaping to put on a collar? Or just grab? I think both are useful for agility, though the collar grab more so at first. But I don't see many people teach the collar on behavior except for Julie


So far just for grabbing. I guess the general behaviour applies to both, though. (come here when I put my hand out- or more specifically, put your head here)


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

elrohwen said:


> Is it the stance where you have your right foot pointed towards the dog, left food pointed left, and you call the dog into your right hand and then make a 90deg turn right? (obviously this works the other way too). We learned that in the FDSA Agility I course, and Hazel's group instructor has us do a lot of that when dogs aren't collecting at all. I think Loretta Mueller calls it "call to side and heel" because the dog is coming into your side and then you make the 90deg turn so they end up in heel.
> 
> Of course that's just foundations and not how you'd cue on a course, but we're not even to the point of cueing collection and deceleration in a more practical way, because Hazel tends to blow past cues that aren't really big and loud. Haha. "Oh, you were trying to do a front cross there and I kept running straight? Whoops" Totally opposite of Watson who is watching me so closely that he's run into jumps before.


That sounds like recall to heel which is a very basic foundation thing. This is more of a hand signal that tells her specifically to come to my hands and slow down before I direct her to the next thing. It's not a huge or special thing or anything but I'm really bad at explaining! I will find out more in my next private lesson which isn't for awhile.


----------



## Kyllobernese

In AAC Agility you have to run your dog without any collar. I have always used a Martingale collar with leash attached as it is so easy to slip on and off.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> That sounds like recall to heel which is a very basic foundation thing. This is more of a hand signal that tells her specifically to come to my hands and slow down before I direct her to the next thing. It's not a huge or special thing or anything but I'm really bad at explaining! I will find out more in my next private lesson which isn't for awhile.


Yes, it's foundations. Like I said, zero collection. lol We have worked on more real cues with collection, mostly with wrapping a jump.

I know how Loretta Mueller teaches collection/deceleration and I've done stuff with Watson (not that he really needs help there), just curious if it's similar.


----------



## Sibe

AKC Exc JWW Q!!!!! Our first Exc Q. 
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102723111619473/

Her Standard run was really good, knocked a bar on the double and skipped a pole on the weaves. Hard course, but she did very well.


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> AKC Exc JWW Q!!!!! Our first Exc Q.
> https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10102723111619473/
> 
> Her Standard run was really good, knocked a bar on the double and skipped a pole on the weaves. Hard course, but she did very well.


Awesome!! Great job!!


----------



## Eenypup

Had our first beginner's agility class today! It's a just for fun type of thing, not a class where you're moving toward competing or anything like that. But Bennie and I had a blast! There was a super reactive dog in the mix and she wasn't phased. She got frustrated and barky when we weren't working on anything, though  Had to keep her engaged or she was like "woo woo!!!!" wanting to know when her darn turn was!

Just did basic work with naming equipment and introducing it, including tables, jumps, weave poles, and the A-frame. Surprisingly she is highly motivated to do this and learns very quickly! At one point between two jumps I didn't mark the next one soon enough so she started slowing down and looked up at me like, "Uhhh whatcha want here??", and next time when I timed it she was like "Oh yeah!" and jumped right over without missing a beat.

We have a package where we can do 4 more classes so we'll be doing some more in the future


----------



## CptJack

I am a nervous wreck about this trial and I don't know why....


----------



## Sibe

Quick photo from when we were about to head out after today









Denali was so stressed I almost went home. We hadn't been to this site before. I think the way the crates are set so close to the ring and right between a wall and a fence made her freak out. I got all my stuff set up then got her, let her sniff and potty for a couple minutes, then went in the arena to get her settled. In the crate row between the wall (the arena wall at the bottom of the bleachers) and fence I was intercepted by a lady who also had a white husky so we were chatting for a few minutes. Denali seemed ok, overwhelmed but checking things out. Then she suddenly panicked. She was pulling hard for the door, whining, ears flat back, eyes big. I got her to the crate assuming it would help her settle. Nope. Digging at the crate, which she never does, and whining. I let her stay out of the crate, giving her treats, playing LAT, until she had settled some. Then I took her up in the bleachers for a bit. She was just not calming down. I put her in the car. It was cold, I left windows down a few inches. I stayed in the car and read for a while. She was staring at something out the window so we spent a good 30 minutes wandering around outside letting her sniff and relax. Back inside she was so stressed she wouldn't even eat her chew- a beef tendon.So back to the car she went. She stayed there until her turn was coming up. I kept her engaged with me from the moment I got her from the car. Went into the arena. She wouldn't even do the practice jump the first couple times I asked her too, and tried to bolt back for the door. I had her do a few more stretches and spins and used more praise, then she went right over. I did my best to keep her engaged and happy. She was definitely more relaxed by the time it was her turn. She did run her Standard very well, and after that got a nice drink of water and chewed her tendon in her crate. I was able to go to the bathroom and check the other ring and chat for a while. After walking the JWW course I got her out and we sat in the bleachers so had a little more distance from the ring. Played a lot of LAT, touch, shake, spins, stretches, and she was doing soooooo much better. In the video you can see a slight hesitation before the weaves (head drops, about to keep going straight instead of turning into the weaves, wanting a stress sniff) but otherwise she ran really well and I didn't see any other stress during her run.

It's hard to know when to call it quits. I want trials to be fun for her, but they're stressful. Outdoor trials seem better, less crowded is better, and places she's run before seem better. This was also an AKC trial and sorry if this offends anyone but I find it to be a much more tense atmosphere. People pull their dog off the course for one knocked bar, people scowl and shake their heads when they don't Q, people are not discrete in criticizing others, people are giving harsh leash corrections while warming up and waiting to go in the ring. Definitely not everyone, there are plenty of really wonderful people having fun with their dogs, but it seems much more ribbon-oriented and people are putting a lot more pressure on themselves and their dogs than I've seen in NADAC in general. I think Denali picks up on that. I sure do, so even if she doesn't get it from others I know she's getting it from me. I enjoy AKC trials but there are people who are killjoys. Even in one of my own Novice runs, one of my first times ever at a trial, I started our run before the "go" and someone in the crowd yelled at me. Fortunately my agility instructor was there and spat back "These are _Novice_ people!" and stood up for me. We're not curing cancer, folks. We're supposed to be having fun with our dogs, not being pissed off at knocked bars and wrong courses and missed contacts. Having started in AKC I think that perfection pressure rubbed off on me and is part of what kept us stuck in Open JWW for so long. I got to the point I left a trial in tears because yet again we'd missed the Q by a hair and I was wasting my time and money. Why bother? Why bother. I had completely lost the fun and the entire reason I do this sport. It took time to recover from that and to realize that one wrong thing making me miss a Q means my dog still did a million things right, I still did something fun and spent time with my dog, and we're a darn good team. Perfection isn't the norm for us and I'm ok with that. I don't need a room full of ribbons. They're great- titles and ribbons are a physical representation of the time I spend with my partner and our accomplishments. But I don't need them to love the sport and I certainly don't need them to love my dog or to remember her when she's gone. Rant done, thanks for tuning in


----------



## CptJack

There's a woman in our club now who came from AKC and is just staunchly refusing to go back because of ... well, all of that. She's staunchly refusing to go back, and she's still trying to shake 'perfectionism culture'. Not that she doesn't like the venue or most of the people, just the pressure and ribbon orientation, as it were. 

I really like the people I've seen at our local trials. They're not big - average seems to be somewhere around 35-50 handlers, about double that in dogs - and people are just... nice? I've been criticized once, and that was after I was praised and by someone I pay to criticize me, and I could see her debating whether or not it was okay to do right then so I kind of prompted her and it was fine, you know? I have NEVER heard anyone be critical of newbies or do anything but cheer and the old dogs get everyone on their feet, even if they're out there doing nothing more than a couple of tunnels. Heck, our last JUDGE did things like tell people 'good try' 'nice save' 'good call on giving up the Q to help your dog'. The *JUDGE* was telling people this, right along with 'lovely run'. 

I'm pretty sure I'd melt in a much higher pressure environment and take my dog with me. 

And I do know people have some issues with NADAC - so do I, here and there, but none of those issues are the people or the environment/atmosphere! More like 'UPDATE YOUR FREAKING HANDBOOK!' LOL.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I am thinking of giving the CKC Agility a try but would really like to go to a trial first. I have only competed in the AAC and have found it is lots of fun, people are not critical or if they are they don't say anything and most are really helpful. I laugh along with everybody when Remmy gets the zoomies as he looks so happy racing around, don't know how they would feel about that at a CKC trial.


----------



## CptJack

Today was... erm. It was a day. The kind where we got one score at all and it wasn't a qualifying one, and every course included about 10 seconds of stopping to bark at me. I had no brain at all. On the other hand, I have found (much to my own surprise) that there IS something I will carry Kylie off the course for and that's refusing to come off the contact equipment.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Did a couple of courses at training today and Kris did really well. I am planning on running her and Lucy at the May 20th trial. After our last trial where I just took Remmy, I have decided to definitely retire him. He had the zoomies the first class but then the other classes, he started to stall on me and just stand there and not move so he just is not having fun any more. What he did do, he did really well so I was a little disappointed that all my training over the winter did not stop this. He never does it in training. I will keep taking him to our training as he loves them and he is a great dog for me to learn better handling with so I can be a better handler for the other two. It will be sort of nice starting over with Standard classes as Remmy was in Masters. Lucy already has a Q in Jumpers and Snooker.


----------



## Sibe

Thank you husband for hanging out with me and taking photos, and for spending 8 hours at a trial for less than 2 minutes of Denali and I running. Denali did great on her Jumpers run, had a refusal on the weaves but redid them and the rest was flawless. Super proud of her! We got a Q in Excellent Standard, the only 20" regular (or 24"!) to do so, so we got 1st place! Tricky course, and Denali and I handled it well. She's so amazing! That's our 2nd AKC Excellent Q. No video today, just photos.

Starting JWW









I appreciate when the ring crew is disengaged and not looking at the dogs when the dogs are so close. Thanks, ring crew!









She got her entrance great then stress sniffed for a second, but then did them perfectly the second time. If she goes in wrong and keeps going I don't ask her to redo, we just go, but since she stopped I figured I'd ask her once more. If she'd refused or sniffed we would have skipped the poles. 









Then God made dog.









Standard run, really having fun and relaxed now


















Yeah!



























This was a tricky, technical course which makes me even more proud.


----------



## kadylady

Awesome job Sibe!! 

On that note of AKC trial atmosphere...I do AKC and CPE, and there is a very noticeable difference between the 2 environments. I don't get nervous at all before my runs in CPE. I do get a bit nervy before going in for my AKC runs. CPE trials are much more laid back, people are more laid back and social, way less competitive and ribbon focused, but also there are more levels and splits in the placements so way more opportunities to get placement ribbons, super welcoming to newbies. AKC is definitely a more competitive environment. I haven't really encountered anyone being rude or overly critical and people were supportive enough in the novice levels, in my experience. But yeah, people are way more focused on what they are doing, and more competitive, which definitely creates a different environment. Honestly, I like them both. I personally don't mind the competitiveness of the AKC environment, probably my horse show background, and its pushes me and challenges me in a way that CPE doesn't. CPE has really helped to build my confidence and my dogs confidence and I'm comfortable trying new things and pushing us and testing our skills. I also love CPE's games classes and being able to strategize. I recognize the difference between the environments and appreciate each one for what they are and have to offer me and my dogs.


----------



## Sibe

The competitive atmosphere can definitely be a bonus, depending on how you view it.

Oh and yesterday a lady got yelled at by another lady and she cried. I only overheard a bit, I didn't want to eavesdrop, but sounded like some other lady was criticizing her for something. What the.


----------



## CptJack

Today sucked less. Only one q but it was elite regular and the rest were either minor or (most often) the result of a tired slow dog.


----------



## CptJack

Oh. 

I didn't stop Kylie on a single contact all weekend. Last weekend my goal was 'get her off faster'. This weekend I just plain didn't stop her, and I consistently got really nice running contacts. I have no intention of doing that all the time and I'll make a point to stop her periodically so I don't LOSE the capacity to use them (I hope), and I'm sure I'll get more blown than I have before (which is zero), but. Hey. Worked this weekend. I'll adapt as needed. 

Our 7 of 8 not-qs were 2 eliminations for not finishing the course after she blew a discrimination, 2 were chances (one back jump and one just not getting the distance; she didn't want to send to a tunnel), and _3_ time faults (1 because I botched a rear cross and she stood and screamed at me, 1 because she blew the last set of weaves in a day (which were the FIFTH set of the day) several times, and 1 because she was just dragging butt. Dog does not like jumpers). Actually, she was slow all weekend. Given that it was her second week in a row for the first time ever... that doesn't surprise me.


----------



## Sibe

More pics from Saturday.

Awesome tight turn out of a tunnel. One thing I'm proud of in myself is my timing when she's in the tunnel. I call her name before I can see her head. When I can see her, it's too late. Unless we're going straight out of the tunnel to the next obstacle, I always call he name so she knows where I am.









Pushing, going down a line. One thing we've been practicing and she's doing awesome with!









Yeeeeah weave poles!









Just for fun, an awkward moment of I assume a cross and Denali looking really happy









Blep!


----------



## Kingfisher

I met you there on Saturday, Sibe! It was so cool to meet Amaze-Bobb in person!

Those AKC trials can be RIDICULOUSLY uptight. I'm not trialing yet, but I'm local so I've watched almost every trial for several years. I really, really dislike some of the things I've seen. My trainer only trials AKC though, so I think I'll just suck it up and deal with it. I showed horses, I can handle it. &#55357;&#56836;

I hope nobody gets me wrong when I say this, but there are some agility people who are just...crazy. I'm still new to this world, and I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to stand here. So many people are just wired way too tightly.... I'm super competitive, but I guess I don't understand the people who are so uptight about everything. There's no reason to get ticked off at a bad run, scold your dog excessively, chew out novice handlers, or anything like that.

Keeper is doing great at our lessons. He just started doing quick, two-step weaves on all 12 the other day, and he's quickly getting over some of his weirdness about the teeter. We're working on him driving to his contacts more, but his 2o2o is quite solid. We've started doing quite a bit of sequencing, I think we've done 6 or 7 obstacles chained together. More importantly, we're having a blast! He's still easily distracted and gets sniffy if things aren't moving super quickly, but he gets better every day.


----------



## Sibe

Oh was that you??? We should have talked more! My husband was like "Do you know her?" "Nope." "Any of them?" "Nope!" We laughed about how famous our tiny little Bobb is. Anyway, nice to meet you! Were you there just to observe? Stalking me to meet Bobb? 

There are people in every organization who are crazy. To each their own, but I don't think that's healthy for you or for your relationship with your dog.


----------



## Kingfisher

I thought it was weird enough to have a stranger know your dog, let alone to say "we've actually talked online and I know who you are!" 

I always watch the agility for fun, and my trainer was trialing on Saturday. I live 10 minutes from the fairgrounds, so it's easy to pop over and watch. We're between 6 and 9 months away from trialing most likely, but we're working on it! We'll see you in the future, no doubt!

I don't usually have a crew with me, but the whole family decided to join in that day.


----------



## elrohwen

Sibe, congrats on the Q!

Interesting to read everybody's takes on AKC vs other venues. I haven't been to many agility trials (and haven't competed at all) so really my only comparison is AKC rally/obedience and conformation. And yeah, those shows can be intense. There isn't a lot of camaraderie unless you come in already knowing people well. 

My friend lives in Vermont, not too far from where we'll be moving, and when I told her who we would be training with she said "Oh! She's one of the only really competitive people around who's also nice". So that says a lot right there. lol Sad that people at the higher levels of AKC agility aren't also known for being genuinely nice people.


----------



## CptJack

Anyone who has been around my dog FB page has seen me interacting at least some with the local agility folks. They're all NADAC, but things like impromptu get togethers to eat out, offers to use each other's homes/yards/equipment, sourcing and selling equipment cheap to other club members, fundraising for dogs associated with one of us, working together to get said dog out of the shelter and into rescue (This is all Chance stuff), hanging out together at trials, sharing rides and hotel rooms and food, and just legitimately wanting to see one another succeed? 

I... don't know crap about AKC, but while some people want to do well and get all the titles, no one ever, ever, wants it at someone else's expense. There's a lot of building up instead of tearing down and I really cannot imagine a better group of people. Not sure that's the VENUE instead of the PEOPLE though, you know?

And also honestly I feel like the fact that every trial we go to now has a pot luck element and has had to start putting out snack tables because not only do we feed the workers everyone brings things to share, says something. It's just warm and fuzzy and wonderful.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I... don't know crap about AKC, but while some people want to do well and get all the titles, no one ever, ever, wants it at someone else's expense. There's a lot of building up instead of tearing down and I really cannot imagine a better group of people. Not sure that's the VENUE instead of the PEOPLE though, you know?


I think some of that is just the people. That's been similar to my experience in AKC conformation - everybody cheers for everybody else and is genuinely pleased when your dog beats theirs. People stay at each other's houses, hang out together, etc. Are we best friends with a ton of stuff in common? Not really. But they are some of the first people to comment on my FB posts and cheer me on and I know they would always be there for my dogs if needed. But that's just my breed and I know far more breeds where everybody hates each other and is miserable all the time. So sometimes you just meet a nice group, though I think venue culture tends to encourage or discourage that type of behavior.


----------



## CptJack

I think venue encouraging or discouraging it makes a lot of sense and I imagine a lot of it is how stiff the competition is, to various degrees. You take nothing from anyone if you succeed in agility, at least in NADAC. There aren't so many points and whoever comes out on top wins them. You're not struggling to get that last spot in champs/nationals, even, because it's Q based qualifications. The spots aren't limited. I mean, yeah, there are top 10 lists but they don't mean much. How well someone else does has absolutely no bearing on YOU. I like that!


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I think venue encouraging or discouraging it makes a lot of sense and I imagine a lot of it is how stiff the competition is, to various degrees. You take nothing from anyone if you succeed in agility, at least in NADAC. There aren't so many points and whoever comes out on top wins them. You're not struggling to get that last spot in champs/nationals, even, because it's Q based qualifications. The spots aren't limited. I mean, yeah, there are top 10 lists but they don't mean much. How well someone else does has absolutely no bearing on YOU. I like that!


Outside of the highest level competitors going for AKC Nationals, or an OTCH, I think AKC sports are mainly Q based too. But somehow the attitude is still much more serious and competitive anyway. I think you have a lot of people striving for "perfect".

Obviously in conformation one dog's win takes away from another dog winning, and it's so subjective, so I see why some people get pissy about it. But personally I feel like it's so subjective that I can't really get mad. Judge didn't like my style of dog that day, oh well.


----------



## dogsule

I only know AKC and am pretty new to it. So not really sure what you are all talking about it being more stressful. I have been able to talk to pretty much anyone that I sit next to. Most cheer when you do well and I have never heard anyone yell at anyone else. I know at our last trial when Belle was having an issue with her weaves (in excellent classes) I guess someone commented on her weave performance and a friend who was next to them and overheard them told them that Belle has beautiful weaves and that this was very uncommon for her. Her weaves were awful and it totally looked like she didn't have good weaves so I don't really blame someone for commenting really when she as in the excellent class. Everyone tells me we are doing great for moving up so fast in a short time period, not sure if that is true or not but most people seem to be encouraging around here anyway. At a small trial around here there are around 60 something dogs but most trials have around 90 some and more people than that. I have only trialed at one place though so it may be different at different places. To me, I don't really care if Belle is faster than another dog in her class, only that she Q's. I know some want that placement ribbon too but I just want to have fun and Q. I have seen a few people mad at their dogs but not over the top or anything. One of my friends who trialed her dog over the easter weekend (I couldn't go) got whistled off the course for telling her dog No (firmly) when she launched herself off the A frame. You definitely have to be nice to your dog around here.

Oh and congrats Sibe, love the pics!

CaptJack, sorry your weekend didn't go better.


----------



## CptJack

> er weaves were awful and it totally looked like she didn't have good weaves so I don't really blame someone for commenting really when she as in the excellent class


This is the thing for me. 

I blame people for commenting. The dog got to excellent. Its weaves are clearly not typically crap. Bottom line, that's not a helpful remark and I can't even begin to imagine anyone I trial with dreaming of making that kind of remark. The ONLY criticisms are a-) asked for b-) constructive. As in someone comes up and goes 'okay, what did I do that make that happen' and they'll maybe get an answer. Otherwise it's very much a 'shrug and off day' type sympathy. 

That kind of remark was made ONCE by someone who wasn't part of our group (ie: a visiting person), and they got shut down so hard and fast I think their head spun. 

That crap's not okay. It shouldn't be considered acceptable, IMO. It's not helpful, it adds nothing, and it makes people more nervous and self-conscious and less likely to be back. So, yeah, NO.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, and I think a pretty good example of how things work with us/our group in our venue. 

This past trial a woman was running an Elkhound. Dog's in Elite in several places but this location was fenced oddly. It was inside, sort of, but mostly just covered and one end of the ring was just contained by 4 foot board/split rail fencing. The dog knew danged well it could leap it and the handler knew he'd try once he saw it. So she talked to the judge and some people and talked it over and they came to a Plan of Action. 

The dog ran. The dog ran for the fence and started to leap. About 10 people popped up from behind the rail and stopped the dog from jumping. Dog went "OH CRAP" and ran back to their handler. It was called for training in the ring and they didn't get a score but finished the run. Problem solved for the weekend. 

No one made one negative remark. 

Last home trial? The January one with the... critical person? Dog's first run of the day it bolted the fence and ran off into the crowd. Dog was just skittish but it was indoors and not really safe since the dogs aren't all fantastic with being rushed. Critical person made a snide remark about training issues and everyone said yeah, well, some trial issues you train at trials and then we spent the rest of the day guarding the gates when that dog ran to keep it and the other dogs safe so the dog could get experience with THAT setting. 

Our JUDGES say things like 'if your dog's not weaving today, try them twice then move on - don't stress the dog' and praise us for doing things like throwing the Q to help the dog. We pass out little cards a couple of trials ago that said 'you entered and left the ring with your best friend. what happened between doesn't matter'. We have a raffle you enter where you put a ticket in per NQ run, and winner gets the wine. 

I just... I can't... and don't want to - imagine a setting where someone looks at a dog and handler having an issue and says anything negative. Criticism that helps sure, but "That looks awful?" I don't care if it looks awful. It's a person and the dog they love. IF you can't help them, SHUT UP.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> We have a raffle you enter where you put a ticket in per NQ run, and winner gets the wine.


That is awesome!!

The comment about Belle's weaves wasnot said where I could hear it, I was on the course. I don't know how it was said or exactly what was said so it may not even have been meanly said, maybe more of an oh she doesn't have her weaves. I wouldn't have even known about it had my friend not overheard it. I guess I don't get upset over stuff like that really but yeah I can see where you are coming from. Maybe it is said more often than I know, I don't hear people talking down others though.

One thing did upset me once and still sort of does and it wasn't a comment made about someone even doing agility. It was from a FB friend who is just an acquaintance. I posted a video of Belles run from the weekend she was having weave issues. She Q'd in the run but wasn't running very fast or anything. She had issues that weekend. Anyway this "friend" asked me if she liked agility, meaning...why are you doing this if she doesn't like it. If she would see how excited Belle gets when we are going she would know how much she likes it. The trials are just a whole other beast with stress and if you don't do it you don't understand. That comment did upset me. I know Belle is having fun and everyone has off weekends but why is someone that has no clue about agility comment like that. I explained the situation and how excited she does get and asked why they asked (even though I knew) all they responded was ok, thank you. Ugh!!

Oh and there have been instances where someone needed help, plenty actually. In the Novice classes where dogs are really scared with all the new stuff. At the last trial there was a dog that the owner couldn't get to come back to her and lots of people went out to help. She ran in two classes, same thing in both of them but no one said she shouldn't be there even though the dog clearly did not want to be. Hopefully by this type of training in the ring it can see nothing out there will hurt it.


----------



## CptJack

I guess for me it doesn't really matter if the person running hears you or not. If the culture of criticizing is there, you know people will be talking while you run or about you and it still sinks into brains and makes people uneasy. Yeah, it may happen anyway, but *knowing* it will get shut down and isn't acceptable makes it easier not to know danged well it's happening and people are just talking behind your back. Or, well, assuming they are even if they aren't. 

But I don't tolerate that kind of thing well. I've got enough anxiety in life without that one, you know?


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I guess for me it doesn't really matter if the person running hears you or not. If the culture of criticizing is there, you know people will be talking while you run or about you and it still sinks into brains and makes people uneasy. Yeah, it may happen anyway, but *knowing* it will get shut down and isn't acceptable makes it easier not to know danged well it's happening and people are just talking behind your back. Or, well, assuming they are even if they aren't.
> 
> But I don't tolerate that kind of thing well. I've got enough anxiety in life without that one, you know?


I agree with this. Even if it's not super mean, and even if the person running doesn't hear it, it's kind of an insideous thing that seems into the whole culure of the thing. Before you know it, you're making comments like that too because it's just normal. I'd rather it not be normal and I'd rather other people shut it down.

I know that when I did Rally with Watson, in the back of my mind I was always thinking about how people might be judging us outside the ring. Even something simple like "that dog doesn't look ready to be here", when I know how much training we've done and how in classes he seems so ready to trial. I don't know if people were really thinking or saying that or if they even cared, but knowing the environment and hearing people make comments, it's very possible someone did. That's not even something I should be thinking about, but when the culture is like that it's hard not to.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I agree with this. Even if it's not super mean, and even if the person running doesn't hear it, it's kind of an insideous thing that seems into the whole culure of the thing. Before you know it, you're making comments like that too because it's just normal. I'd rather it not be normal and I'd rather other people shut it down.
> 
> I know that when I did Rally with Watson, in the back of my mind I was always thinking about how people might be judging us outside the ring. Even something simple like "that dog doesn't look ready to be here", when I know how much training we've done and how in classes he seems so ready to trial. I don't know if people were really thinking or saying that or if they even cared, but knowing the environment and hearing people make comments, it's very possible someone did. That's not even something I should be thinking about, but when the culture is like that it's hard not to.


Yeah. 

I remember saying here and in real life that I've given up being embarrassed because I've seen dogs do everything they possibly can do, but the truth is more I've seen a lot of things but I have NEVER seen or heard anyone get critical, snide, or gossipy about it. It just isn't socially acceptable amongst the people I hang with/trial with/trials I go to. 

And that means that I don't have to have it in the back of my mind as a concern.

Actually, this reminds me of our very first trial where a dog was running kind of slow and my husband made a fairly innocent remark about it. IT was his first agility trial, he wasn't trying to be weird, but the dog was just being slow and that surprised him. He didn't get meanly slapped down, but rather gently educated that the dogs weren't robots and critical remarks weren't going to be turned into conversations. 

Good.


----------



## dogsule

I totally get where you are coming from and I suppose it does happen more often than I know. I guess I never feel like I deserve to be where we are so a comment about the weaves (which are normally awesome) didn't phase me. The only reason my friend told me about the comment was because I kept talking about how bad they were afterwards wondering what the heck was up. I still think it was the new piece of painted metal holding the two sets together but I will never know for sure. I can see how stuff like this would get in peoples heads though. I am nervous enough out there! I think for the most part people are nice but with all different groups holding the trials you get some new ones there that are probably not so nice. I do think some people there are annoying but not really mean. Oh and yeah, I would never want to become that person that would comment something not so nice! Don't think I would though.


----------



## Kyllobernese

We seem to have a really good group in AAC Agility. Lots of help to Starters if they ask for it and lots of friendly people. I have never really thought too much about getting ribbons for placing, just satisfied if I get a Q. I have never felt like I was "competing" with the other dogs, more important what I do with my dog. Really looking forward to my first trial this year with Kris and Lucy. Hopefully they should both be more ready for it than they were last August when they really had not had much training as I had been off for over a year.


----------



## CptJack

Truthfully, it's not just agility.

If there is any group in which gossiping - and this is basically just gossiping - is socially acceptable and not shut down, people will engage in it. *I* will find myself engaging in it, because it's just what Those People DO - at least until I catch myself. It's a weird means of bonding, and while in many ways it's fairly harmless, it's also not something that has to happen. There's a lot of talk in the world about needing to grow a thicker skin. I can agree in as much as if I find someone upset by that sort of thing I will remind them that it doesn't really matter, and that what other people think of them are none of their business-

But too often it's a means of excusing unhelpful, unkind, uncompassionate behavior. 

It's not mean to criticize someone else's run with their dog/make remarks about its performance when you know nothing of it's history or what they usually look like, what may be going on or what they may have overcome? That effects no one but them and their score? That they may already be stressed about, or, heck, may be a big enough improvement in some other way that they don't care?

Are you sure about that? 

Even if it's thoughtless and not malicious - Are you really sure?

Because I'm pretty sure it is.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Everyone told me to join CPE before AKC because according to everyone around here.. CPE is way more laid back and encouraging. My instructor said there are some big jerks at AKC. I've noticed that in general in the dog community though. Dog people are not always people-people. I've met way more good people and spend my time with them. I actually don't mind people critiquing me as long as it is constructive and encouraging. I'll be first to admit that I mentally critique other runs.. but I also cheer and acknowledge all the hard work it took to get to a trial at all.


----------



## Sibe

I'm enjoying this discussion brought up by my ranting. It is definitely not everyone, and I do find a lot of support and encouragement within AKC along with the things I don't like/agree with. Most people are approachable. I asked three people where the check in table was, and all were happy to help.


----------



## elrohwen

I attended my friend's very first AKC trial (first trial ever actually). There were some cranky people there, and the environment wasn't super friendly. However, when she ran, people were very nice. Her little dog was all over the place, doing zoomies, not doing obstacles - typical baby dog and Novice A type stuff. And every single person I overheard made a comment like "He's the cutest dog ever!!!" rather than saying something critical. So that was really nice to see.


----------



## ireth0

Oh yea, I was asking our instructor last class and for trials dogs run with no collar. 

No idea of the different venues here and which that would be applicable to.


----------



## jade5280

I missed the first day of our next agility class last night because the main highway I take was closed due to an accident. 

I'm going to be volunteering at an American Beauceron Club sponsored agility trial this Friday. I've never been to a trial before so it should be fun seeing every one compete!


----------



## Kyllobernese

When I first started in Agility I liked volunteering for Ring Crew. You got to sit and watch every dog run and just had to reset jumps and change heights on the tire and A-frame. It really makes you realize that no dogs are perfect every time. Even dogs in Masters that have done it for years can completely goof off. You also learn so much watching how the more experienced people handle their dogs.


----------



## CptJack

My favorite, favorite volunteer position is ring crew for the intro dogs. I don't mind/do like ring crew/bar setting period but man alive I love watching those intro dogs run. They're so EXCITED, and you get to actively help people with their dogs. By ignoring them, granted, but it's helpful!


----------



## dogsule

Yeah, I volunteer almost every trial to bar set, chute or leash runner. I do the Open and Novice classes. My next trial on April 30, will be the first one I will be leaving as soon as I am done as I have to get home right away, otherwise I always volunteer.


----------



## CptJack

Nadac trials make it easy because there are so many classes almost everyone is there all day. 

Every game/class runs Elite-Open-Novice- Intro (sometimes intro), but there are SIX games a day, so unless you're only entered the first group, you're going to be around for other runs. May as well help.

That said, while I will do anything, leash running and gate are my leash favorites.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Nadac trials make it easy because there are so many classes almost everyone is there all day.
> 
> Every game/class runs Elite-Open-Novice- Intro (sometimes intro), but there are SIX games a day, so unless you're only entered the first group, you're going to be around for other runs. May as well help.
> 
> That said, while I will do anything, leash running and gate are my leash favorites.


I once did chute for the 20" + mas/ex class....ugh! I love watching but getting up after every dog like 50 times got a little tiring. lol! I didn't help that I was having hamstring issues that day either! The open and novice classes are much smaller.


----------



## CptJack

...there's a border rat in Bug's agility class. 

Best. Dog. Ever.


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel did 6 weave poles last night!!! There are some occasional mistakes with missing a pole, but she really has it. Now we get to work on the hard stuff like proofing.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> hazel did 6 weave poles last night!!! There are some occasional mistakes with missing a pole, but she really has it. Now we get to work on the hard stuff like proofing.


go hazel!!!!!! ...That would look more impressive if DF would let me keep my caps, but I know why it doesn't. 

Anyway, it occurs to me that I didn't update on Bug's actual agility class last night. I still won't let her do the a-frame there because the surfacing isn't good, but she does okay. She's pretty slow (no surprise), but she's game and adorable and doing all right. I think the funniest thing with her is that she really, clearly, doesn't understand wtf the point is. So she DOES everything, she has fun and loves the attention and is all kinds of happy but she gets this blatantly quizzical look on her face at points that's just -

It's adorable and endearing. 

She's also FANTASTIC front cross practice.


----------



## Sibe

1. Bobb can compete in DOCNA! I need to learn about DOCNA.

2. Bobb has class today, after 2 weeks off. Bobb learned the first step of 2x2s and is really good at it. I also got video of him on the dogwalk, I didn't know that it could ever be done safely with him but I like our system. He is in a good supportive harness, on leash, and my arm close to him is behind him and makes a "bubble" with my hand at his side.





(His classmates know they're in videos  )


----------



## elrohwen

Also, Watson did a rear cross on the Aframe like it was no big deal. We've barely worked rear crosses and I had planned to do a front but he got there faster than I thought he would. Go little dog.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Sent my entries in today for a trial on May 20-21st for both Kris and Lucy. Have them both in Standard, Snooker and Jumpers both days so six classes each day. Lucy already has a Q in both Jumpers and Snooker from last fall so if we are really lucky, could move up on Sunday but I am not counting on it. We will be camping out, first time this year with my trailer but all our trials from now on are outside, rain or shine.


----------



## CptJack

I finally got all signed up for our trial the 30th-1st. I'm excited about this one. My expectations still aren't terribly high, but I LOVE 'home' trials - at least the outdoor ones. They're my favorite (and Kylie's favorite) EVER. Have practice with her probably once a week from now until then, and am doing some work at home. We're playing with layering things in weaves and just weaves in general. She's getting pretty solid there, but I'd really, really, like to finish off her novice weavers title and forget about that class for a while.


----------



## CptJack

So. 

I've taken to doing running contacts with Kylie unless I need her to stop for a particular reason - at which point I cue the stop and get it - for about the last month. Mostly because it keeps her speed and enthusiasm up. I even used them at least weekend's trial and while we had some problems, contacts weren't amongst them (more like discriminations and later a flat puppy).

Am I going to regret this? Opinions?

(Spoiler: I think we're okay - she's jumped a contact exactly ONCE, ever - but I don't trust myself with this at all and thinking we'll be okay doesn't mean we will and just. Erk.)


----------



## kadylady

Good agility weekend for the girls and I!!

Zoey needed 4 Q's in finish Level 4 completely, 2 Standard, 1 Fullhouse and 1 Jackpot. I entered exactly those 4 classes, 2 Friday and 2 Sunday. We got them all!! So we are now fully Level 5 and officially on the C-ATCH path! Also, we can move up and be all Level 5 at Nationals...which I got the first email confirmation for yesterday!!! So exciting! Zoey had an awesome Jackpot run today, with a traditional gamble and there were 6 weaves in the gamble, about 10 feet away from the gamble line. I really wasn't sure if she would get them or not but she totally nailed it! 

Skye also had a good weekend, we started doing the teeter in trials again this weekend. It was still heavily managed (ie me slowing her way down and body blocking it if needed before cueing) but she did really good! Had 1 on Friday and 1 today, and today was improved from Friday. Very happy to have that happen. Teeter issues really really suck. I'd so much rather retrain pretty much anything else besides the teeter! Skye picked up a total of 5 out 7 Q's this weekend. She is completely in Level 3 now and making good headway.


----------



## Kingfisher

We're not trialing yet, but I'm pretty proud of our progress on our weaves! We've had six lessons over two months, I think we're moving along quite well! Our trainer guesses we'll be ready to trial by the fall.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4KsVm6YZ6XI


----------



## ireth0

Last agility class we worked on body awareness skills!

Paws up on and pivoting on a stool, larger circle work with dog on the inside, backup (to a target for dogs already familiar with backup), cavalettis, sit pretty... I think that's everything. 

Luna was a superstar. We hadn't specifically practiced backing up to a target yet but she was picking up on it immediately. 

When we did the cavalettis, Luna walked across them like it was a bridge.:doh: They were PVC pipes cut in half so they could support her, everyone thought it was hilarious. The instructor had been talking about how every dog approaches them a little bit differently. Well. I didn't expect her to avoid them but I definitely didn't expect -that-.

Next week is our last week without equipment!


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel had her last group agility class in CT :-( So sad. I really love the instructor and I've become friends with some of the people in the class, so it sucks that we have to go somewhere else. We still have a couple weeks of private lessons before I move. Then we start at the new place May 6th. I'm really nervous for some reason. I think we'll be a bit ahead of the rest of the class, which isn't a bad thing really. They haven't done full height contact equipment or weaves at all yet, but then I think I want to switch her to 2o2o and I wouldn't mind retraining weaves, so it should be fine.

Hazel was so bad in class too. We worked outside for the first time since October (and back then we weren't doing much off leash - just restrained recalls and stuff). The first exercise was a little circle of jumps and a tunnel to work on front crosses, but she zoomed off after the tunnel every time. lol She got it out of her system though because she was fine for the the second half of the class where we worked on the dog walk. At home lately she won't play disc until she's run around the field for 5min, so I think it's spring time zoomies or something. She's so cute.


----------



## CptJack

Someday, I swear, I am going to learn how to USE all the things I've taught the dog. Maybe. 

Okay, probably not but that's my goal.


----------



## Sibe

Facility has an outdoor area that's slowly been coming together. Today we got to run for the first time! It's very, very different running in sand. Our first try Denali went beach mode, and I had a hard time keeping her attention. Got a couple play bows and sniffing around (she's such a beach dog, growing up in San Diego!). Our second run was flawless. Feels much slower in the sand as both you and the dog are working harder.


----------



## elrohwen

I forgot a funny story from our last private agility lesson on Tuesday. So we did this sequence that was basically a rectangle. One short end was a tunnel and tire, the other was an aframe, jump, and tunnel. The long ends were basically a straight line of 3-4 jumps The Aframe end of it required some sort of cross because of the way obstacles were set up. Going clockwise it was easy. Then we decided to try it backwards just to see, though it wasn't set up to be done in that direction really. The cross had to be right after the line of 4 jumps - either a front or a rear. 

Now, Watson barely knows rear crosses, and I can't usually send him ahead of me to a jump (only to a contact obstacle), so we decided that I would try a front. I lead out a good distance, and ran like heck to try and beat him to the end of the line and do my cross. What do you know, but Mr Slow and Steady turned on the speed every time. "Oh! Mommy is running! I love running with mommy!" He's just so cute. And logically I know that he is the type of dog to run the exact same speed as me and never run out in front (like the game where you race the dog to a toy? doesn't work, because he will never try to win). And obviously if he wants to he can move much faster than me and catch up to me. But for some reason it was so funny. He looked so pleased with himself for catching me.


----------



## Laurelin

So we've just been dealing with a lot of stuff. Mostly stress and weirdness and spookiness (things like people near a ring, ceiling fans, zoomies, zoning out, snappy with dogs invading his space, fear of sunglasses, etc). It's just been a lot lately with Hank. 

We've been taking classes at two clubs now (totally different handling systems. The other is borderline 'for fun' agility just to get some experience in another ring).

Well we did NADAC today and he did absolutely fantastic! I debated off and on entering but decided to try the friday runs since it wasn't a long day. We had MAJOR zoomies his first tunnelers run BUT he came back to me! His second run was stellar but I took him off course. Intentionally. I realized I didn't have time to make a cross and I didn't want to risk the connection we had going and so we didn't Q. Touch n go was a blast. Zoomies our first go a bit but less than tunnelers and he came back to me much quicker. Our last run we did just flawlessly (save one spin and wide turn when he came out of a tunnel and couldn't find me). He clocked in at 4.5 yps and...

1st Q!!!!










But seriously I am just SO excited he was so happy. He left each run with a tongue hanging out the side of his mouth. No stress signs at all. Just the look in his eyes... he was having FUN. A lot of fun. Running in drive. Sans rewards. With scary ceiling fans and strangers. Having a blast.

And I just... <3 <3 <3

We're getting there. 

I got lots of compliments on him at the end of the day. Especially about his contacts, which were just solid as can be.


----------



## Kingfisher

We get to move into a group class this week!!

My trainer prefers to start with private lessons to develop skills first so she doesn't have a real beginner class. But now we've had our first graduation!


----------



## Laurelin

Anyone ever enter AKC events online? I just entered a trial but I hear this specific one fills fast. I have a little check mark next to my entry for both days but not sure if that means we got in or not?


----------



## Sibe

Had an AKC trial Friday and Saturday. Friday she ran great, had a backside we missed. She went to the back perfectly and then stopped instead of jumping! It was a panel jump, and that's not the first time she's stopped right at it. We've never worked backsides on panels. Then she got sucked into a tunnel. Every freakin' AKC trial I've been to lately has had you doing a 90* turn off the double with a tunnel straight in front of it. JWW she had one refusal on the weaves; she popped at like pole 8 or 9 iirc. The rest was flawless and they were tricky courses. Also a bonus tunnelers fun run at the end we signed up for that was also tricky, but she nailed it! Girl loves tunnels.

Saturday we got snowed in. I could have made it out there but was concerned about being able to make it back in the evening since it was going to continue snowing all day. Very windy too. Glad I didn't leave my stuff there!


----------



## CptJack

I had a lesson today. Did quite a few Chances type exercises and realized my dog can do things I had no idea my dog could do, with more distance than I expected her to be able to manage. Then did some more stuff where we worked on handling choices. It was a lot of fun and she got to break in the middle to roll around in a stock tub. 

Oh and I handled a serpentine in what I thought was a weird/wrong way that turned out to be right! I was proud of that.

I also got off somewhere and leapt over a jump which was just - awesomely funny, and made me glad she's a little dog


----------



## ireth0

We're starting on jumps and tunnels this week finally! Super pumped!!


----------



## elrohwen

I already have homework for Hazel's agility class! I got a course map that I need to analyze. I'm not really sure what she's looking for? Just stuff like, "start with dog on right, do a front cross between 5 and 6, etc"? I don't know how specific this is supposed to be. Maybe I'll just wait until we actually start class. 

I also feel like I'm going to be both ahead and behind on this class. Sounds like the other dogs are way more experienced with 2o2o because we've done running contacts, but then they haven't really been on the contact equipment at all yet which might take some dogs awhile to build up to. I don't think they've even introduced the teeter or weaves yet so we'll be ahead there, unless she does everything completely differently. Ack, starting in the middle is stressful. Especially because it feels like the kind of place where you're expected to keep up, and not just float along at your own speed like the other place we train.


----------



## Sibe

Photos from AKC trial on Friday. Skipped Saturday because of the snow.
http://www.photoreflect.com/store/ThumbPage.aspx?e=9807851&g=03PG00CS1C

She always makes this face coming out of the chute. Standard course started with a short chute.









Pretty rear cross









Tunnel!









Second time coming out of the same tunnel









In other news, Bobb is doing great in his classes! We found out he can compete in DOCNA trials; our instructor is talking to them about hosting trials outdoors at her facility but the outdoor area is sand. Bobb runs around in sand no problem but it is much more physically demanding in sand, so we'll see if he has the endurance. That's a ways out though, we're not even up to sequencing obstacles yet. We've started 2x2 weaves almost two weeks ago and he's doing really well. For him it's basically a jump so he's having a little trouble figuring out that going between the poles is right, and jumping over the support bar on the side is not right. He's doing great with on side and off side though, as long as I'm pretty close to the poles. Just starting to be able to add a little distance and have him go through instead of hopping over the support bar. He's getting it. We practice them for about 5 minutes every day as a warm up for his physical therapy exercises and stretching.


----------



## CptJack

I'm entering Bug in the next trial. Just intro jumpers, probably, which means one whole run a day but lots of love and attention from people otherwise. Worst case with her she pees in the ring, begs for treats from judge or ring crew, or grazes, so no worries or expectations expect the fact that it will make her happy. 

She continues to basically have no idea WHY I am asking her to do this but being delighted to do it so, meh. 

Still need to work her on contact equipment quite a bit but I'll tackle that over the summer. Meanwhile, hey, she's a reallllly easy dog to handle, both because she's actually pretty slow and because she's very 'what are you pointing at, okay' oriented as a result of being deaf.

(In other news, she is in love with this husky mix in her class. Lots of play bows going back and forth and she really just wants to run away with the target baiting, cheese carrying, assistant instructor. She's fantastic stress relief for me. Just to have a dog who's reaction to other people and dogs is OMG I LOVE YOU.)


----------



## Sibe

Go Bug! When is the trial?


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> Go Bug! When is the trial?


Not this coming weekend but the one after. 

The one caveat is the weather. I'm way less sure about having her out in rain/slick grass than Kylie, but we'll see how it plays out- especially since in trial she'll be jumping 4", and she's been doing 8" in class. I HATE that jumpers is the last class Saturday (for both of them) but it's first Sunday so maybe it'll balance.


----------



## MysticRealm

Finally got myself signed up for an agility foundations class with my pom! I thought I had missed them all till the next sessions started but one of the places added an extra class due to the demand. Not totally sure how my pom pup will do... he's an interesting character...


----------



## elrohwen

MysticRealm said:


> Finally got myself signed up for an agility foundations class with my pom! I thought I had missed them all till the next sessions started but one of the places added an extra class due to the demand. Not totally sure how my pom pup will do... he's an interesting character...


Yay! Have fun!


----------



## Kingfisher

Our weaves are definitely coming along! He's single stepping about half the time, and I suspect he'll single step the entire way once he finds his rhythm.

We're about 3 months into our agility training so far. I also got access to a neighbor's equipment any time I'd like, and she has an entire course's worth including a teeter, dog walk, A frame, everything. So that's pretty much the coolest thing ever, especially considering we were having big time teeter issues.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Nice weaves! ^^^

We trialed today. Overall I wasn't very pleased with Kai's lack of focus on me. There was lots of enthusiasm.. but on our standard run she completely blew me off to go check out a folded up tunnel outside of the course and suddenly forgot to weave. We will work on it before our next trial in May. Luckily, we are still in low level everything and Q'd 4 out of 5 runs. I'm still proud of my girl just for trying so hard to control herself in such an exciting environment for her. She also got to meet an Aussie puppy and just adored him.


----------



## CptJack

Beautiful weaves, Keeper, and Kai really sounds like she's getting there - stuff happens, sometimes, and you've got a good attitude about it!

We trial again next weekend. I'm nooooot enthused with the weather forecast, but we'll live as long as actual storms hold off. Meanwhile lesson today was fun. I got a compliment on Kylie killing discriminations and man, she really was. Still doing a lot of course analysis type stuff, which I love. Did some hoopers handling exercises instead of distance today which was kind of fun - not my favorite but the dog really enjoyed it. 

Hoping that 'analyze the course, what are your decisions and why' work translates to the trial. 

I so want out of Novice in everything by the end of the year. I am only THREE Qs away from that - 2 in chances, 1 in weavers, but I just don't know. Those are so hit and miss with us, and it's not because Kylie can't, it's because sometimes she just doesn't. Chances is obviously less controlled because distance, and weavers is almost always the last class of the day and 'do 3 sets of weaves' after a full trial day is asking a lot. Guess we'll see!


----------



## ireth0

Friday we started with equipment! 

We did jumps just with jump bumps (not poles) using race to reward and Luna did great, fantastic drive for the toy. 

When we did tunnels we started with calling her back and forth through the tunnel and she was awesome. No fear or hesitation at all, just barreled through like she'd done it a million times. I wasn't able to use the race to reward strategy for them because at that point in class she was getting kind of burnt out of the tug. We tried with leaving some treats at the other end but she would just go through halfway and then come back out the other side and walk around, lol.

I'm super sad that this week is our last class and we won't be able to come back to agility until later in the fall.


----------



## Sibe

This dog.









Today was the first sequencing we've really done. Bobb does one obstacle then looks for our instructor haha. Today was also the first time I've seen drive going into tunnels. He's still hesitating a little now and then but he's starting to zoom through instead of casually hopping. Building some good tunnel suck 
Video! https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/1083400048364740/


----------



## Kyllobernese

Finally had nice enough weather that we could set up all our agility equipment. My sister has a big grassy yard so we set it up there. She made several new jumps this spring so we have lots of jumps, our A-frame, tire, long tunnel and two shorter ones, teeter, dog walk and weaves. We started training on Monday, again on Tuesday, then went into the arena today and practiced in there. We are getting them ready for the trial on the May 20th weekend which will be an outdoor trial so we will be camping with our RVs. Hope to train every day while the weather is not too hot or wet. We only train for short periods of time.

She also built a lower teeter so we can start the two younger dogs on it. Her Golden and Bonnie both do the tunnels, low jumps, dog walk and A-frame but are both a little scared of the teeter so want to start them off slowly on it.


----------



## CptJack

Trial this weekend! 

Practice last night was interesting - and not too bad. Had a realization re: Kylie and weaves and that's lateral distance is okay but if I'm too far behind her, she pulls out and comes looking for me. The course was *hard*, but we did pretty decently with it all things considered. 

Weather this weekend's going to SUCK, though, so am seriously not sure Bug's going. Heck, I'm not sure *I* won't cop out of day 2 if it's actually as bad as the forecast calls for. The joys of outdoor trials. (Way, way outweighs being inside with Kylie, though.)


----------



## Kyllobernese

We only have two indoor trials a year, all the rest are outdoor so I know what you mean about the weather. We have had it so windy it was blowing the jumps over, a few really rainy ones but the heat is usually the hardest to manage. They usually have a couple of kiddy pools for your dogs to cool off in but you have to time it right as they all want to roll around on the grass after getting wet.

I like the camping out though, far cheaper than Motels and more fun for the dogs.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> We only have two indoor trials a year, all the rest are outdoor so I know what you mean about the weather. We have had it so windy it was blowing the jumps over, a few really rainy ones but the heat is usually the hardest to manage. They usually have a couple of kiddy pools for your dogs to cool off in but you have to time it right as they all want to roll around on the grass after getting wet.
> 
> I like the camping out though, far cheaper than Motels and more fun for the dogs.


We have... 3 indoor trials a year - 2 of them are our local club, 1's another one. They're all in horse arenas, and in theory they're fine? Good location, good surface, open to the outside but covered and generally pleasant because lack of rain and good climate control but I just - The dog doesn't like them. The dog clearly doesn't like them. Her YPS drop by very nearly an entire yard a second, her brain flatlines faster, and she just doesn't... have the same fun. OTOH the 2 that we host indoors are in mid June and January, so it's useful!

I'd just rather deal with wind and rain than a stressy dog. Not that I like wind and rain! Or mud!


----------



## elrohwen

From what I can tell, most trials here are indoors. Sometimes horse arenas, sometimes matted, sometimes astroturf. Fine by me! My breed is typically going to struggle running on grass (so many smells!), so I'd rather save that for practice and then trial in an environment that's easier for them.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> From what I can tell, most trials here are indoors. Sometimes horse arenas, sometimes matted, sometimes astroturf. Fine by me! My breed is typically going to struggle running on grass (so many smells!), so I'd rather save that for practice and then trial in an environment that's easier for them.


I kind of get the feeling most people/dogs prefer indoors and we're kind of freaks for being reversed, but Kylie apparently needs some exciting. 

In other news (not unrelated) there was another coonhound at practice last night - this one was a treeing walker and it... didn't run off, at all. It was clearly green but it did really, really well - never left the handler, did as it was asked, was fast and happy and impressed the pants off me!


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> This dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today was the first sequencing we've really done. Bobb does one obstacle then looks for our instructor haha. Today was also the first time I've seen drive going into tunnels. He's still hesitating a little now and then but he's starting to zoom through instead of casually hopping. Building some good tunnel suck
> Video! https://www.facebook.com/amazebobb/videos/1083400048364740/


How awesome is that???


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Trial this weekend!
> 
> Practice last night was interesting - and not too bad. Had a realization re: Kylie and weaves and that's lateral distance is okay but if I'm too far behind her, she pulls out and comes looking for me. The course was *hard*, but we did pretty decently with it all things considered.
> 
> Weather this weekend's going to SUCK, though, so am seriously not sure Bug's going. Heck, I'm not sure *I* won't cop out of day 2 if it's actually as bad as the forecast calls for. The joys of outdoor trials. (Way, way outweighs being inside with Kylie, though.)


Good luck. I am glad we trial indoors, not sure Belle would do good outdoors, too much to distract her.


----------



## dogsule

Had class last night and Belle had such awesome weaves even with a send to them from the opposite side! The way it was sent up the easiest thing to do was a send then run to the other end of the weaves and do a blind with the dog doing a 90 degree turn at the end to a set of jumps. Never have done it before but she did awesome, never pulled out even though I wasn't with her. (send was from the opposite side of the entry and the turn at the end was to the opposite side of the exit).

Trial this weekend, haven't trialed in 2 months now due to conflicts and when Belle punctured her cornea. Hoping to get some Q's but most of all to have a happy dog!


----------



## kadylady

The majority of our trials are indoors, either on mats or turf, we have one local indoor horse arena trial per year, though I did travel to Ohio for one this winter. We have a couple outdoor trials in the summer and so far Zoey has loved running outside! Skye has not run agility outside yet but she's done lots of work outside and disc stuff outside, plus she's not very sensitive to the environment, so I don't think it will make as much of a difference to her.

Skye's teeter issues have improved tremendously. We've been adding it back into sequences in class, heavily managed, and she's been doing great with it. Her confidence improves every time. 

Both girls are trialing in CPE Saturday, full trial so it's going to be a long day. Then next weekend both are trialing in AKC on Saturday at the indoor soccer facility. The following weekend Zoey is doing AKC outside on Friday. That will be her last trial before Nationals. Eeek!! Nationals is so close! We are doing lots of practice with our distance skills (preparing for the hard Jackpot class), we are renting our vets horse arena again for more practice on dirt. We have our stall reservation, sent in entries for practice runs on Thursday, ordered shirts.....I'm getting so excited!!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our twice a week Agility training in the indoor arena have been going really well. Most of the courses we have set up are more challenging than what we will be doing in Starters and Advanced which hopefully will make our courses seem easier. When I put Kris in a couple of trials last fall, she had never trained outside at all and she did pretty good, no Q's but did not really expect any. Lucy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese, did pretty good at the same trials and did get two Q's, one in Snooker and the other in Jumpers, so I expect her to do well this year if I can keep from making mistakes, going off course and all the other things that handlers do.


----------



## CptJack

I almost think the walls put 'pressure' on Kylie? It sounds kind of crack-potty on a certain level but she's usually really sensitive to body pressure/pressing her line, but inside if an obstacle is within 4 feet of a wall, I have to RUN INTO her path, almost into her to get her to go out far enough to take it and she swerves in hard as soon as she's past it. The general slow and stuff I think is mostly just more stress inside, but she loses her 'power steering' indoors. It's *odd*.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I almost think the walls put 'pressure' on Kylie? It sounds kind of crack-potty on a certain level but she's usually really sensitive to body pressure/pressing her line, but inside if an obstacle is within 4 feet of a wall, I have to RUN INTO her path, almost into her to get her to go out far enough to take it and she swerves in hard as soon as she's past it. The general slow and stuff I think is mostly just more stress inside, but she loses her 'power steering' indoors. It's *odd*.


That doesn't sound weird at all. Some dogs are super sensitive to the presence of walls, running towards walls, etc.

My dogs don't tend to be pressure sensitive really. A little bit here and there like any dog, but when I watch shelties and BCs my dogs feel like the opposite of that. It's interesting how strong and consistent breed differences can be sometimes.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> That doesn't sound weird at all. Some dogs are super sensitive to the presence of walls, running towards walls, etc.
> 
> My dogs don't tend to be pressure sensitive really. A little bit here and there like any dog, but when I watch shelties and BCs my dogs feel like the opposite of that. It's interesting how strong and consistent breed differences can be sometimes.


Yeah, for sure, and I feel like for most purposes Kylie runs like a sheltie - not quite, but if I had to pick a breed. Molly's even more sensitive to it than she is. Thud and Bug, meanwhile, would run into and through walls (and obstacles, and me) given a half chance. 

Agility is full of all kinds of little things you never even think about, I swear, or at least it is for me. 

And a lot of it I don't even SEE accurately. I had to be told that getting too far behind Kylie was why she was stopping or pulling out of weaves, in spite of the fact that she did it and immediately curved toward me. I'm so smart.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Yeah, for sure, and I feel like for most purposes Kylie runs like a sheltie - not quite, but if I had to pick a breed. Molly's even more sensitive to it than she is. Thud and Bug, meanwhile, would run into and through walls (and obstacles, and me) given a half chance.


I was at a seminar where the trainer said that herding dogs are pressure sensitive, because obviously they need to be for herding. Sporting dogs move into pressure because you want a dog who will charge into tough cover or a frozen lake without thinking twice. I knew that about herding dogs, but never really thought of it that way for sporting dogs. We were doing a treiball intro exercise, where the dog is on the opposite side of a bucket from you, and when you move clockwise, the dog should also move clockwise so that he stays opposite of you. Every BC in the room was like "Ok, check, stay opposite handler." But when I would step towards Watson he would step towards me. lol Took some time before he figured out what I wanted. According to her that was super common, and most labs would've done the same thing. I imagine it could really change your agility handling if you run both a lab and a BC or something.


----------



## MysticRealm

Haku's (8 month old pom) first agility class went great! The only thing he was worried about was his leash 'chasing' him through the obstacles so next class I'm just going to use doubled up yarn as his leash! You can do that when your dog is only 3 pounds!!


----------



## CptJack

So far today we've had zoomies a forgotten couse and a q. Also I am sick. But happy!


----------



## CptJack

Today end recap: Novice Weavers Title, Jumper's Open q (first one) and another Elite Regular Q. 

To go with "zoomies" "I forgot things" and an almost chances (so close but no cigar and I'm OKAY with that because I'm getting better at it!). 

And now I'm going to decide whether I'm going to bed or dealing with video


----------



## MysticRealm

Worked a couple times today on Haku's send arounds that the instructor wanted us to work on.
Short video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzxSX7hLS1A


----------



## CptJack

So, a year ago was our first trial. 

As of today? 

Well, I have EAC, TG-O, WVN, NJC, and TN-N. She got *three* titles this weekend, y'all. Her T'n'G open, Elite Regular, and Weavers Novice. She got 2 of 3 legs for Open Jumpers. Yesterday? She did six runs, and was happy and running on the last one. Today? 5 of 6. She ran and was happy in RAIN. Pouring rain, though thankfully it cleared up for the afternoon. I know other dogs who have gone further faster, but I am danged proud of this dog.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8NY1jk14VQ Video, if anyone wants it. I videoed nothing today because of weather and dead, and there are some seriously not smooth handling things happening - in fact 2 of the 4 runs in there weren't Qs, though I cut the first one off at 'got lost entirely', but hey. I took the video, so have it.


----------



## CptJack

And as I spam - LOL, hey, I technically qualified for pre-elite at champs this weekend. (This is not a big deal, but it makes me happy!)


----------



## CptJack

I'm not sure if anyone cares, and I know I'm spamming but all the convos about what constitutes a switch and talks about various rear crosses and the like made me go dig through the video I had to isolate this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlgUWirhjsc - I still can't embed but THIS is what I mean by switch, and what we were struggling like mad with for so long.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> I'm not sure if anyone cares, and I know I'm spamming but all the convos about what constitutes a switch and talks about various rear crosses and the like made me go dig through the video I had to isolate this.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlgUWirhjsc - I still can't embed but THIS is what I mean by switch, and what we were struggling like mad with for so long.


So, to me, it look like a rear cross, but also with direction to the dog to turn away from the handler for the next obstacle.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> So, to me, it look like a rear cross, but also with direction to the dog to turn away from the handler for the next obstacle.


Yes! THANK YOU!

By which I mean 'thank god' because I was never going to manage that with words if my life depended on it.


----------



## Sibe

MysticRealm said:


> Worked a couple times today on Haku's send arounds that the instructor wanted us to work on.
> Short video
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzxSX7hLS1A


 Yeah!! Such an important foundation skill. Looking really good, and what a happy dog!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> I'm not sure if anyone cares, and I know I'm spamming but all the convos about what constitutes a switch and talks about various rear crosses and the like made me go dig through the video I had to isolate this.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlgUWirhjsc - I still can't embed but THIS is what I mean by switch, and what we were struggling like mad with for so long.


Yup! That is what I just call "turn" or I think is what is referred to as "tandem turn". It is a super useful move to have. Kairi loves it. Congrats on your trial weekend!


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Yup! That is what I just call "turn" or I think is what is referred to as "tandem turn". It is a super useful move to have. Kairi loves it. Congrats on your trial weekend!


Kylie doesn't seem to care one way or the other, but we had a LOOOOT of 360% spins to avoid just switching leads in there for a while. We still get the odd spin, but now it's handler error, at least. 

Thanks. It was a lot of fun, and the weather was wild. Everything from sheeting rain and cold to hot and sunny. Was kind of a trip and I can't *wait* to see the pictures!


----------



## elrohwen

I finally realized why I couldn't tell the difference between the switch you described and a rear cross. It's because the woman who taught us how to rear cross was teaching a switch from the start (even used "switch" as her cue). Of course you don't always use a rear cross that way, but to me that seems like one of the hardest versions of it, so I think that's why she taught that way first. The way you're doing it in that video is exactly what we were working on. If you can do that, a rear cross while your dog keeps going straight to the next jump seems easier in comparison I guess.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I finally realized why I couldn't tell the difference between the switch you described and a rear cross. It's because the woman who taught us how to rear cross was teaching a switch from the start (even used "switch" as her cue). Of course you don't always use a rear cross that way, but to me that seems like one of the hardest versions of it, so I think that's why she taught that way first. The way you're doing it in that video is exactly what we were working on. If you can do that, a rear cross while your dog keeps going straight to the next jump seems easier in comparison I guess.


That makes sense!

This is what was taught to me from the get go as a rear cross, or at least sort of one, too. Like, we didn't learn another version, but once I hit courses I'd do things where I just ran the dog straight ahead and crossed behind her, sans cue and the instructor actually differentiated at that point for me when talking to me. I do think that the fact that she was teaching it as a 'rear cross', though, was some of my confusion with trying to figure out what in the name of HECK I was trying to teach my dog to do. Because that was a rear cross, and cutting behind while they went straight was a rear cross, and every thing between at various degrees of turn away was a rear cross and.

No. I finally had to make up my own rules to get consistent performance from the dog. Now I'm kind of overusing and abusing them but at least they're making more sense to me!


----------



## Kyllobernese

I know I have always called that a rear cross and until the dog knows it, you can get a spin after the obstacle. We have been practicing things like that and blind crosses, threadles, push threadles, serpentines and lots of other things, twice a week when we go into town to practice. I competed with Remmy right up to Masters without knowing what I was doing was called. Learned so much in the last year to make it easier for both myself and the dog.


----------



## Laurelin

So Hank and I are going to two trainers lately. One uses switches and the other hates switches. So confusing. lol

I think I'll probably use them some but USDAA has me wanting to be ahead of the dog as much as possible. 

Oh and 'tight' for some turns? Is that a NADAC thing?


----------



## CptJack

Tight is a NADAC thing. Some people use it more than I do, but for me it's to indicate 180 degree turn back the way they came. Like the dog comes off the dog walk, takes the hoop, wraps it (but can't go back through it) and then has to take the tunnel in the dogwalk/tunnel discrimination. I have seen a TON of those lately. 

And since I suck at descriptions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJoDkAluji0 like 53 seconds - a minute or so there.


----------



## kadylady

The girls and I had a really good agility weekend. We did CPE on Saturday. Zoey Q'd in 3 out of 5 runs, which is the most runs she has done in a long time (since her injury). Skye has a perfect day and Q'd in 5/5 runs! Both girls did some really good stuff. Skye had a really great Jumpers run, my favorite run of the weekend with her. I made a few handling errors but despite that she had so much jump commitment and she totally got the job done like a big girl. It was a run where I finally started to trust her and we started to work together. Super proud of her. 

Sunday I had rented time at an indoor horse arena with a friend so we could get in another practice on dirt before Nationals. I was worried that Zoey would be too tired because she was so tired by the end of the day Saturday. But she actually had an awesome practice! The past 2 times we have rented there she has struggled with her weaves, both entries and popping. She didn't miss a single beat on Sunday. She had fast, perfect weaves! And I was even laying them and putting in a lot of lateral distance. She totally rocked. Then she had an awesome class on Monday night!

So, here are my favorite clips from this weekend!

Skye Jumpers run





Zoey, a clip from our practice on Sunday.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats CptJack on your weekend!!


----------



## Sibe

In class today. She was struggling a little with the barrel setup, which is apparently done in NADAC champs but will be coming to [probably only Elite courses] trials. Then after we got it she of course went back onto the A-frame because that's what we'd just been doing haha.





Yes that horrible high pitched screaming and whining is Bobb >.<


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> In class today. She was struggling a little with the barrel setup, which is apparently done in NADAC champs but will be coming to [probably only Elite courses] trials. Then after we got it she of course went back onto the A-frame because that's what we'd just been doing haha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that horrible high pitched screaming and whining is Bobb >.<


Oh man, those hoops on barrels. They were basically introduced at champs this past October. From what we were told back in January at a judge's briefing is that, yes, they were coming to courses and probably not just elite, either. I haven't seen any yet, but they are on their way. We actually had that Advanced Agility class in part to deal with that, but like I said: I've seen none of it on courses yet, at any level. 

What we are seeing right now is a lot more knocked points/faults for taking barrels too wide and a lot more directional barrels where it has to be taken either clockwise or counter clockwise, instead of bidirectional/just go around it. Which was also handled pretty heavily in that 'emergency' advanced class to cope with some of the stuff happening. Being able to switch around the barrel has saved my butt once or twice.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank jumped over the barrel the first time he saw one of them. LOL


----------



## CptJack

Laurelin said:


> Hank jumped over the barrel the first time he saw one of them. LOL


We had a sheltie do that at our NC trial. Except the 'barrel' is actually a mesh, collapsible composter? And it traumatized itself. Poor dog. (I laughed, anyway)


----------



## Sibe

There can be a 3rd hoop too, on the back of the barrel from what our instructor was telling us. She was mentioning the faults for doing barrels too wide as well.


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> There can be a 3rd hoop too, on the back of the barrel from what our instructor was telling us. She was mentioning the faults for doing barrels too wide as well.


Yeah, and sometimes you have to hit one hoop and not the other, depending on where they are and direction changes, and sometimes the directional stuff comes into play. That plus '180 around the hoop' makes some of this stuff kind of weird. Not bad, actually kind of fun, but different than even a couple of years ago.


----------



## CptJack

Just a couple of pics from the trial photographer. I have many, many more I need to buy but that's going to take a bit.










I'd say our weave stress issues have gone away. 









Happy foof.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I wish we had NADAC around here as it looks like fun. I do teach an "around" using a cone, doing it in both directions. We have some jumps in AAC where you have to get the dog to go around them and jump back towards you depending where they are which side you send them around. Kris picked it up really fast but I am still having to work on it more with Lucy.

Lucy (my Shih Tzu x Maltese) and Kris (my Doberman) are so different from each other to train and it is quite hard still to switch from one to the other. We have been doing a lot of twisty-turny courses and I noticed Kris was starting to really slow down waiting to see what I wanted her to do next so I have started just running some straight forward courses like we will hit in Starters and it is getting her speed back. Lucy is very fast and loves all the different ways of doing the obstacles and is much easier to direct. I think they are both going to be fun to trial with, each in their own way. Lucy has done more training and has two Q's so far, one in Jumpers and one in Snooker from last fall.


----------



## CptJack

My next trial is middle of next month and a 'games trial' - so no NATCH classes, but 2 rounds of Weavers, Tunnelers, and Touch 'n' Go each day. Not sure what I'm doing with that. Those aren't the classes I care most about but they're definitely fun. Probably will only do 4 each day since it's indoors and Kylie's got limited 'go' inside. Will likely figure out which class is in the middle, not do that one, and carry on. 

My focus this summer otherwise is just going to be lessons and working distances/chances stuff. I'd like to get out of novice, there, already. I'm already out everywhere else. Maybe I can knock it out during my 'fall season' trials (all 3 of 'em).


----------



## Laurelin

I am unsuccessfully trying to get my dad to let me take Dutch to classes. I think at the least I may let him practice some jumps. He's REALLY smart and has the best toy drive of any dog we've had in the immediate family. But he's about as coordinated as drunken mastiff so...

I just can imagine the hilarity of it all.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

kadylady said:


> The girls and I had a really good agility weekend. We did CPE on Saturday. Zoey Q'd in 3 out of 5 runs, which is the most runs she has done in a long time (since her injury). Skye has a perfect day and Q'd in 5/5 runs! Both girls did some really good stuff. Skye had a really great Jumpers run, my favorite run of the weekend with her. I made a few handling errors but despite that she had so much jump commitment and she totally got the job done like a big girl. It was a run where I finally started to trust her and we started to work together. Super proud of her.
> 
> Sunday I had rented time at an indoor horse arena with a friend so we could get in another practice on dirt before Nationals. I was worried that Zoey would be too tired because she was so tired by the end of the day Saturday. But she actually had an awesome practice! The past 2 times we have rented there she has struggled with her weaves, both entries and popping. She didn't miss a single beat on Sunday. She had fast, perfect weaves! And I was even laying them and putting in a lot of lateral distance. She totally rocked. Then she had an awesome class on Monday night!
> 
> So, here are my favorite clips from this weekend!
> 
> Skye Jumpers run
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoey, a clip from our practice on Sunday.


Beautiful runs! It's almost time for Nationals! I'm very sad that I won't be able to make it but I have friends who will be there.


----------



## MysticRealm

Half of what people are saying on this thread, I have no idea what they're talking about haha.
2nd agility class and Haku did even better than first class. We had a different instructor (which still isn't the instructor we should have as she's been having family emergencies) and liked her a lot. She used a bright bowl with a couple treats in it after the obstacles to really get the dog driving through the obstacles and that helped the dogs be really motivated. 
Started with weaves. we just had the 2 sides spread apart and we went straight through the middle. She narrowed it a bit as the dogs were getting the idea. Haku did great.
We then moved on to the tunnel. I wasn't sure how Haku would do since he was a bit hesitant last night but he did awesome right from the start. Even when she gave the tunnel a pretty sharp (for a beginner class) he had no hesitation (I think using yarn as his leash helped a lot so he didn't hear his leash chasing after him through the tunnel). Bowl with treats was at the end ( a little ways from the end so they ran out to it)
We then worked on contacts by having a plank on a slight slope then having the bowl right at the bottom so they stopped at the bottom with a couple feet still on the ramp. Haku did great, even jumping up onto the platform that the plank was set on.
Then worked on a few jumps in a row in a straight line. Only once did Haku think to go around one.
I really want to enter the next group of classes but it's not great timing with my puppy, but I may force it to make it work anyways!


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, if you can make it work I would. Both because it means you can go on with your little guy without interruption that you may regret later and because you'll learn a lot in general that may be useful with the pup and because he'd probably really, really benefit from some one on one time out in a fun training class with you. That is absolutely why I've done this next agility class with Bug. I mean, yeah, I'll eventually do a trial or three with her, maybe get her a title or two in Intro, but mostly-

It's the one on one time doing fun things, you know?


----------



## MysticRealm

Right now I really feel like just forcing it to work, but money is also getting a bit tight with some unexpected costs so I'm not sure if I can afford the 240 bucks right now. I will have to keep thinking about it.


----------



## ireth0

Had our first intermediate class on Saturday! There were only two other dogs, a BC and... can't remember, some sort of smaller French breed white dog with long flowy fur. 

Had so much fun! We started with a warm up rotating on various conditioning equipment.
Then Luna was introduced to the weave poles, and she did awesome. after a couple mins she was almost going the whole length of the poles with them spaced apart.

We then started working on the a-frame contacts. She did really good standing contacts, and had no fear about jumping up on it. We need to try to work at home on nose targeting on the floor at an angle. I think I'll probably use the stairs.

After that the other teams did a small sequence and we worked on using a toy reward for the tunnel. Luna did awesome, I was so proud of her! She was totally smoking it and getting super excited about the toy. We're moving to me throwing the toy for her to grab instead of trying to meet her at the end to reward- she goes so fast!

Overall I was super proud of her for her first class. We're still learning all the things, but I never felt like we were lacking in ability compared to the other teams- just experience. 

This whole thing is just awesome to me. When I first brought her home I would have (and possibly did) laughed at someone suggesting she could do agility- let alone have drive of any kind. Now she's got toy/tug drive out the butt and energy to burn before she gets worn out. Dog is amazing.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Beautiful runs! It's almost time for Nationals! I'm very sad that I won't be able to make it but I have friends who will be there.


Thanks! Yes it's almost here I'm so excited!! Bummer you can't make it. 4 legged flix is doing videos so I'm wondering if they will live stream any of it. 

Saturday was overall a really good day for both girls!! Zoey's day started a little weird when she refused the A frame in Open FAST, which is her favorite obstacle. her standard run was beautiful until she refused and then jumped off the side of the aframe then refused the dog walk. She had beautiful weaves on the first try!! I had my chiro friend look her over because it's so not like her to refuse the contacts, she loves them. She didn't find anything abnormal so I ran her on JWW and it was lovely! Good pace, perfect weaves and her 2nd Excellent Preferred JWW Q!! Perfect weaves all day in the hardest location for her to trial in. Very proud of her! 

Skye had a great day too. She had a nice Novice FAST run in the morning, first Q in that. Perfect teeter and weaves. Then she had a beautiful Open JWW run, seriously flawless! And I had good timing on all my handling! So super happy with that run, and her first open run. Novice standard, first 2/3 of the run was perfect. Then we got a little disconnected and got 3 refusals and a wrong course on like the last 4 obstacles. Very happy with her performance this weekend and again she totally didn't react to the new location. 

Zoey ExcP JWW 





Skye Open JWW


----------



## dogsule

So we had trials the last two weekends. The weekend before last I thought Belle had developed allergies as she had been sneezing a lot the week leading up the the trial, mostly when outside. The day of the trial seemed the worse and both runs that day were foiled by Belle sneezing. She started slowly as both times she started sneezing right away, knocked a bar on one and missed a jump on another due to sneezing. The rest of the runs were fine but dang. The next day I had given her a Claratin, which seemed to help a little. We didn't have a sneezing problem but had a handler error problem both runs. One I was just one step into the jump too far and sent her around the jump instead of over it, it really was a beautiful run up to that part. Next run she started fast, which she usually doesn't, so I didn't cue her on what to do after the second jump as it was a very offset weave entry and she had no clue where to go. Ugh! 0-4 that weekend.

This last weekend I just did one day. Belle was over the sneezing (which I came to realize was not allergies due to the fact that the other two started in on it...oops, some type of respiratory thing, hopefully no one else caught it from Belle being at the trial. Just thought it was due to the high tree pollen we had at the time) so I figured we would have a good day. Now Belle usually stresses some at the trials so is much more reserved there than at class. We started our first run (I start with her due to start line stress) and bam...she was fast right off the bat, no stress just a happy fast dog who was there to have some fun and not listen to her handler. LOL! She sort of stayed with me, not really having zoomies around the ring but pretty much only taking what she wanted to. Such a goof. At one point when I was getting her back to me to do the weaves as it was an odd angle to them and she went wide. She was ignoring me and I loudly snapped my fingers right by her ear, she then listened and did the rest of the course fine. Both standard and jumpers runs were pretty much this way. We did open FAST too and should have Q'd however the buzzer rang (apparently earlier than it should have as they had the time set wrong) and instead of just going to the finish jump, I sent Belle over another jump and then she took another also before the finish jump and we went over time by too much. Oh well. She did well in the send, which was great! SO anyway 0-3 this last weekend. 

One of my trainers commented on how happy Belle looked out there and said if she starts running fast and not stressed like she used to, I will need to adjust my handling. Oh great, as if I know what the heck I am doing out there now! LOL!

Next trial isn't until June, Fathers Day weekend. Hopefully I can go to twice weekly classes until then.


----------



## Sibe

Pulling Bobb from classes due to a bad front nub injury. He's really, really sore and bruised on the tip of his nub. Vet gave us Rimadyl, and recheck in 3 weeks.


----------



## mrsserena

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Can they smooth out Bobb's bone without taking much off? I just remember when we got an FHO on our dog, they said it was very important how they shaped the remaining bone. Maybe it's not worth the recovery pain for him, I'm sure you know best!


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



mrsserena said:


> Can they smooth out Bobb's bone without taking much off? I just remember when we got an FHO on our dog, they said it was very important how they shaped the remaining bone. Maybe it's not worth the recovery pain for him, I'm sure you know best!


 They potentially could, I'm not sure that it's currently worth doing. I hate that this happened to him, but it's rare for him to whack it this badly. He hasn't had any trouble at all since we adopted him at the end of last June. If (when) he ever needs to go under for anything, we'll get the skin on the back nub cleaned up and we'll talk about if rounding the front is worth it.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*










Bug completed intermediate agility tonight. I think that's it for classes for her, but I'll start taking her to practices some. Maybe teach her to weave a bit over the summer. She still doesn't really get it, but she did much better than I expected and was starting to use a little more speed and not looking to me for treats quite so often by the end. 

Not bad for an old girl.


----------



## Fergusmom

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Yay for Bug, she looks quite proud! I seriously love that dog. 

This is Fergus' last week of beginners "fun" agility. He has surpised me in a good way. Super fast, not scared of the equipment. His main issues are marking everywhere, and taking off for zoomies. I don't really think he understands what's going on, but he seems to be having fun. Not sure if we should try for more serious training, or go to intermediate at this current location.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

There is...this woman in our last class, the one we just finished, who kept saying her dog was 'stubborn' when the dog was actually, clearly, shutting down. And got royally ticked when someone gently pointed it out. 

Last night she started talking about prong collars and using them for corrections and I swear to god I have never seen so many people uncomfortable and sidling away in my life. 

She's a quasi-regular at some of our practices and trials and I just. 

Ergh.


----------



## Laurelin

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Haven't updated in a while. Things are going... Hank is... complicated. xD We're doing two agility classes a week.

It's just management wise and yada yada with the toy dog in class (ironic right?) and the fact he's aged into an asshole with strange dogs who approach him (yay terrier and ACD). He's so intense when he's on. We've gone from 'keep him engaged' to him leaving me in the dust with too much obstacle focus. My goal in class is to keep him OFF equipment vs get him on. My instructor has told me to focus on not letting him take things he's not supposed to. How many times tonight I heard 'since he's so much faster than you'...

If it was easy everyone would do it, right? lol.

It's like trade one problem for another. 

Tonight he hit a frustration point I'd never seen him reach and he went frantic then quit and gave me the finger till I convinced him he could still win the game. He literally walked a course which I've never seen before from him. 

We had a layering with weaves and a tunnel. First run major tunnel suck when he was supposed to weave. Finally after about 7 tries got him to stop sending to the tunnel. Ran 3 courses with weaves. Then I could NOT get him to tunnel. Run 4 jump, go tunnel- he weaves. Ok set back up and re-send him. Weaves. Step in front of weaves and really work to aim him at the tunnel. Twitch run twitch wait... 'Hank tunnel!'... blazes past me into the weaves. He anticipates and gets stuck in these ruts. 

He still 2o 2os every table. 

Newer instructor wants me to work on a 'don't take that obstacle' cue to try to pull him off obstacles. 

He wants to work so flipping bad all the time. Even when we're not working, he's working. He gets so MAD when things interrupt his work. Forgot his crate today and after his run he almost gets ANXIOUS about not having a crate? He ran to where it usually is and just started spinning in circles...

ACD people have often made comments that they're a bit difficult for agility and I see why even though he's obviously not full. I think he'd be an easier pet only dog sometimes but then I remember after skipping our usual 4 training classes a week I woke up to him biting me at 5 am as an alarm clock.

If it was easy everyone would do it. 

Oh and he's been doing backflips so hard off my back fence when he sees squirrels that he's busted my fence half down. Yup. 

But I guess he's my nutter now. In all honesty I love the little nutter to death. Could do without the asshole to other dogs. The rest is kind of fun in a challenging way?


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Haku did well in his training class. Working on going straight between weave poles to start getting the idea and they narrowed them up quite a ways (which for a 3 pound dog that's mostly hair isn't all that narrow haha). He was so enthusiastic about that that when we moved on to something else close to the weaves he tried to bolt back down them!! We worked on front crosses and Haku did great. Move onto the dog walk, slightly raised starting with a straight plank then to the ramp. He ran across that! Then onto the tire jump. Haku really liked that. The tunnel, not so much. The instructor said that he didn't really mind the tunnel because he was fine once he was in, but he didn't want to send into the tunnel. Which is a little weird because he worked on the front crosses/send arounds where I could send him around something from like 5 ft+ away, though the first few times he went into the tunnel and turned around so maybe he thought he was supposed to go around something and that's why he turned around? We then added some jumps on to the end in a straight line. So did tunnel jump jump. By the end we did all 3 in a row with no rewarding during (well, I continued to reward after the tunnel since that was a problem area for him.
I REALLY want to take the next class but I just got hit with a MASSIVE (4ooo!) bill for my car repair!! So money is TIGHT!! And only less than 3 weeks till I need the money to purchase my show prospect standard poodle!


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I have no idea what got into Kylie, but when the instructor says 'she's wild' and 'she would rather bark at you than listen' it is weirdly happy making. Partially because it's somewhat reassuring that it's actually NOT me screwing up, and partially because it was followed up by talk about how far she's come - and she has. OTOH, HOLY CRAP my dog's brain was not in her head today.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

On a more serious note, I really don't know what to do with her when she's like this. It's so completely the opposite of what I usually have to deal with. Seems like the sweet spot between overstimulated mess and flat/shut down is really hard to hit with her. I guess like Laurelin, it's kind of fun in a challenging way? 


And if nothing else she really is my brat.


----------



## kadylady

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Zoey got her AKC Excellent Preferred JWW Title on Friday!! Outside!! More importantly, she weaved! Outisde! On the first try in 2 out of 3 runs!! And the one that took a second attempt was partially my fault! So so proud of her! We haven't tried outside since last June and she ran beautiful! She had a really nice run in FAST, it was fast and she got her weaves on the first try, with speed! We didn't get the send bonus but I really only cared about getting the weaves in that class. Her second run was Excellent Standard and it was an absolutely beautiful run, fast, good contacts, just the one refusal at the weaves, but I slightly messed up our approach so... Last run was Excellent JWW and she was tired, so it was a little bit of a slow start but she picked it up and we got it done, perfect weaves. 

Video of her JWW run (my videographer thought the course ended sooner than it did so she missed her weave entry).


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



kadylady said:


> Zoey got her AKC Excellent Preferred JWW Title on Friday!!


WOOHOOO!!!! Congrats!!!


----------



## So Cavalier

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I haven't posted in a long while....ah the frustrations of agility trials. Gemma and I are having trouble Qing in Standard. She Qs just fine in everything else...we always seem to have a spotless run until the one off course and poof...you lose. I am pretty sure it is in MY head and I am thinking about asking someone else to run her. Baxter spent the last weekend dodging almost every freaking tunnel. He has beautiful tunnels, even can do sends to tunnels in class. Sigh......He did have a spotless Snooker run. My little silver lining. I am not sure if my agility days are coming to a close. Bad knee buckled and sent Gemma off course in her first Standard run. Second Standard run....people asked me what was wrong with her because she was so checked out.....


----------



## kadylady

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



Sibe said:


> WOOHOOO!!!! Congrats!!!


Thank you!


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Agility tonight was a bit odd. I took Molly along to hang out for most of the practice time, while Kylie waited in the car. Molly didn't do in agility, we just hung out, did some tricks and things and generally I watched her not wig out and impress me. 

Anyway, the result of that was that I didn't walk the course I ran, though I did watch other people some. I managed to figure out about half of it, and that was good enough. I figured I'd just take Kylie out, make up what I needed to, but the whole goal - the WHOLE goal - really was on just letting the dog have some fun. I would say I was even pretty half-arsed about it.

Three jump lead out, distance, speed, and I was able to get her to go ahead of me on a straight line by several jumps. Best jumpers run I've ever seen from her. 

Because she sat in the car or because I was totally non-stressed and just playing? Who knows, but DANG it was pretty and I wish I had video.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

AKC trial tomorrow, Saturday, and Monday. We need one Standard leg and two JWW for our Excellent titles. The trial site is local and we've been there many times for NADAC trials which I think will help my nerves.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

My girl upgraded her title from OA to AX!!! She ran _so cussing good_ today. Both start lines she got up with is uncharacteristic. She stopped at the top of the A-frame, the judge was pretty close. I really, really liked our judges today (Lavonda Herring / Ronda Bermke). Both had such fun attitudes, were interactive, very wonderful ladies. You'll notice when Denali looks at judge Herring from the top of the A-frame, the judge is still and looking ahead instead of looking at Denali. I appreciated that. Denali did need a bit of encouragement to finish her weaves but she got both entrances and did them. The entrance on the JWW course was one of the nastiest I've ever seen. 20 ft tunnel, aka PUPPY CANNON, pointed straight at an offcourse jump and barely any room from exit into the entrance. A lot of dogs missed it. I figured if I ran like heck I could get a front in which would cut out that jump and help slow her down and guide her in, and it worked! Also, we had a broad jump! Rare to see past Novice level in AKC, but perfectly legal. Several dogs skipped it, or jumped sideways through it.













This club has pretty ribbons.


----------



## kadylady

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



Sibe said:


> My girl upgraded her title from OA to AX!!!


Congrats!!! Those were both beautiful runs!!!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Lovely runs guys! I am so jealous of all the great handling skills. I get so darn nervous.. especially at trials. I always look like a flailing lunatic a little bit.

We got 5/5 Q's this weekend at our CPE trial. The building was VERY nice with some lovely turf. We had some decent pieces of runs but managed to fault in each one in some way. Even so, it was our first time at this building and we haven't really trialed too much yet. I think I can honestly say that we are both starting to get a little more together.. just need more practice in trial environments. If I could just stop being so friggin nervous..

OH and Ember had her first private lesson. She did mostly awesome. We are starting to raise the contact equipment to full height and close in the weaves. I have to give this dog credit where it is due.. she is not afraid of the teeter or any equipment. We had a moment where she got the crazy zoomies down and back around the building. She decided teeter was good fun to play on.. making it go up and down repeatedly. Husband and instructor had to run to her aid for saftey but I couldn't stop laughing. The smile on her face was incredible.


----------



## Kyllobernese

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Just got home from our AAC trial. Lucy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese, ran great. She got her second Q in Starter's Jumpers so moves up to Advanced Jumpers next trial. Had a perfect run and really fast (77 time and she ran it in 67.41) in Starters Standard till the "trap" at the end. Came down a teeter to a jump facing the outgate and had to make a right turn to another jump. I was just not fast enough to get her turned but really pleased with her. 

Kris, well Kris decided that maybe she would just ignore me and run around the ring and take a few obstacles. Her next three classes, I went out there just to let her have fun so that finally the last class, she decided to do most of the obstacles. She is so focused on me in training, it was so out of character that it caught me by surprise. She has only been in two other trials which were last fall and she did not do it there. 
Someone did manage to get one picture of her going over a jump.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> We got 5/5 Q's this weekend at our CPE trial.


 Congrats!!!

Denali rocked it again today. She got her second Novice FAST Q, 1st place. Her first ever Master Standard course she Q'd and got 4th place, for OUR FIRST MACH POINTS!!! 14 MACH points! Then she closed the day with a flawless Excellent JWW run and upgraded her OAJ to an AXJ! 1st place, and the only dog at any Exc jump height to Q. Just for fun, since it's the same course, I compared her time to the Mas dogs- she would have been 10th place. I assumed if we even got to Mas that our days of blue and red ribbons were probably done. I'd rather be clean than fast anyway, and we just don't go as fast as those freakin' border collies.

She ran so, so happy this weekend, very little stress, and I think what made the difference was keeping her in the car instead of crating in a busy, loud, echoing, closed in horse arena. She slept all day when she wasn't running. It's so good to have my girl back!!!!! I'd forgotten how much fun she can have at trials, how focused and fast, and how good it feels for me too without worrying if we should stop trials because it's too much for her. I'm bringing cookies and snacks to our class on Wednesday. They've been so great at being annoying, obnoxious people on course while we practice that now the judge and leash runners are no big deal. It's fantastic.

Pics and videos later... I got home, ate, changed, and ran back out the door to do two private lessons for clients so I'm beat.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

EXC JWW title! Things I notice:
1. Slowing down when we approach the judge. Head drops some too. Then tunnels make everything better and she flies out of that puppy cannon!
2. Those weaves! Oh my gosh! No hesitation, no stress. Goes right in. No lip licking, no sniffing, no head drop. She stays focused and has a nice relaxed happy face, open mouth and all!
3. I wanted to front cross at the double after the weaves. She landed further out than I expected and another step would have made her take a offcourse jump so I pulled her in, did an awkward rear, then had to scoot and push hard to get her out to the next jump. She didn't even wonder about it, she just did it. Sloppy on my part but she nailed it.






Monday ribbons. FAST, Standard, and JWW. She is now Shamrock's the High One AX AXJ (and CA, for lure coursing)


----------



## Kyllobernese

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Home from our weekend trial. At practices, Kris stays right with me but her classes at the trial were a disaster. After the first class I just went in and tried to make it fun for her. Finally in her fifth class she stayed with me most of the way. Hard to train for this when she never leaves me when I am practicing. Someone did get a picture of her going over one jump.

Lucy was great. She got her second Q in Starters jumpers and had a really fast run in Starters Standard, perfect all the way till the very end when they had a teeter, then a jump in line with the outgate and you had to make a right turn. I was not fast enough to get her turned. Her time was 66.41 and she had 77 seconds to do it in.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

You guys are *killing it* - all of you, here. Huge, huge congrats.

I am still not entirely sure about June's trial. I need to fill out my entry and hand it in, but I still haven't and don't know when I will. It's in that horse arena where Kylie never does as well which makes me a bit cautious, and it's 'only' Weavers, T'n'G, and Tunnelers, each day (2 rounds each). Will probably suck it up and just skip weavers and not expect much from the rest because making time indoors in games is - iffy, for her. 

Or I'll skip it. 

Or day of entry.

I don't know. Something.


----------



## Kyllobernese

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

We don't have any more trials in the area until July, then almost every weekend so have time to decide whether to keep trying with Kris or not. It is hard when she trains so good, then ignored me at the trial, but she did improve the last class so maybe there is hope for her. Will continue on with Lucy. She has 2 Starter Jumper Q's so moves up to Advanced and one Starter Snooker Q and loves the training and running.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I say enter, unless you don't plan on ever trialing at that site. Gotta get used to it somehow!

This weekend is lure coursing fun runs (short oval track) both huskies will get to do, then following week is NADAC on Friday only. Two rounds of Weavers which I'm guardedly hopeful for since she's been weaving so dang well, one Regular, and one Jumpers. Should be a nice day.

My weekends are ruled by dogs. YES.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Oh, I'm going to enter and go. I said I was doing 8 trials this year and I'm doing it. 

This is just my least favorite  Fun shall be had, regardless.


----------



## Kyllobernese

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

We have no trials in June, then in July have one on July 2, 9, 12, 26. The ones on the 12th and 26th are something new this year. They are evening trials with just a couple of different classes so great to go to as they are within driving distance ( 2 hours) and come home the same day. All the others are two day and camping out.

The same thing happens in August, all the trials are bunched up, three weekends in a row. That ends our trialing till one trial in November.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

This is our last one until mid September - then we'll have 3 in a row again, then a break until January. We basically cluster spring (Mid-April through early May) and fall (Mid September through Early October), with June and January thrown in. 

Another year and I might start traveling some to hit a couple of more - eldest kid will be over 18 then and can easily watch the the house and other dogs) but for now that's it for us.


----------



## Laurelin

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Hank and I moved up to another class. I got there to try it out today and realized... It's Summer's old class with Summer's classmates. 

The feels man.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Pics from Monday. Seriously, look at the happy! I have never seen her so happy at a trial, it was so wonderful. Perfect combo of focus and happiness.


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Everyone's dogs look awesome! I hope I one day have a dog trained enough to go to a trial!
Haku was pretty good in class today. We worked on getting the dogs to put their front feet on a block or even a wobble half deflated little exercise ball then having them pivot around it. (Or in Haku's case we had him but all 4 feet on the wobble thing to balance) Then worked on backing in a straight line, then worked on keeping front feet on one side of a pole and back feet on the other and moving around a corner like that, then backing up over a couple poles. Then practiced more front crosses. We learned the a-frame. And by the end of the class we tied together. Tunnel, a-frame, tunnel, tight turn, jump, jump, front cross back to jump. Haku was the best dog in the class! So smart!


----------



## Laurelin

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Hank picked up his first AKC Q. Was ugly but hey we will take it! He was a bit Stressy in the standard run and also had to say hi to ring crew. I think it'll come together though. Jumpers was pretty good actually but ironically the Q was in standard. 

We'll get there. Overall happy with him.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



Laurelin said:


> Hank picked up his first AKC Q. Was ugly but hey we will take it! He was a bit Stressy in the standard run and also had to say hi to ring crew. I think it'll come together though. Jumpers was pretty good actually but ironically the Q was in standard.
> 
> We'll get there. Overall happy with him.


 Congrats! Happen to get a video?


----------



## ireth0

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Had a fun class this week.

We mainly worked on the tunnel, and at one point Luna was all "WHAT DO YOU WANT LADY" and jumped -on- the tunnel.

Also worked on approaching jumps and did a quick bit of introducing to the table. After class she went over to it and took a nap up there while I helped clean up. 

Oh yea, we also did a bit of weaves!


----------



## Kyllobernese

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Bonnie (my Doodle) has been working on a few things in Agility since she was a pup. She loves running to the low table, jumping up and lying down on it. She is not jumping anything yet but runs between the standards, goes over the dog walk and through the tunnels. She is a year old in August so will be able to start getting "serious" about training in the fall. Right now the main thing is teaching her direction, having fun, 2o2o and will be starting on a low teeter in the next little while once the weather dries up enough to work outside again. She is scared of the teeter at the arena as it gives a really loud bang when it hits the ground so have just been working on watching others go over it and not getting scared. She does not mind the movement, just the noise, so have not tried to get her over it yet. My sister built a two level teeter that just barely drops, then can be moved up a little more, then up to the full height one.


----------



## Laurelin

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

And today we were a big old ball of stress. Gosh I just kinda want to throw in the towel sometimes. 

It's super frustrating. All the other novice dogs who started this weekend did so well.


----------



## gingerkid

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

We're a third of the way into our level 2 class. It's 3 people: Us, a yorkie, and one of the club trainers and her circus of 9 MAS (though she only brings one dog per class). Ida is the biggest dog in the class. And also the loudest.

We're having a hard time in the class environment right now; her reactivity was pretty bad last class, and she seems to get more and more timid every time we go into the classroom (probably related to the increasing reactivity, which we're working on). I'm not sure if I'm not using high enough value treats to keep her focus maybe, so I'm going to try fresh cooked turkey this week. Hopefully the increased value in treats will make it easier to get her focus back and do more to build a positive association with the training facility. And part of it is probably that she's only 15 months, and is still suffering from a little bit of puppy-brain. :s

On a good note, she's really killing it in the back yard.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I completely lot track of my June trial. 

It is next weekend. This weekend I have a lesson. I have done basically *nothing* since our last trial. I've been focused on Molly's stuff. 

I. 

I.

This is gonna be good.


----------



## gingerkid

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



CptJack said:


> I completely lot track of my June trial.
> 
> It is next weekend. This weekend I have a lesson. I have done basically *nothing* since our last trial. I've been focused on Molly's stuff.
> 
> I.
> 
> I.
> 
> This is gonna be good.


I'm sure you'll be fine... maybe it'll be one of those things where it gets better without working on it? Maybe?

I need to figure out how to get Ida to work for things that are not a tennis ball the way she does for a tennis ball. She loses so much timidness when she knows there's the potential to chase a ball at the end, vs. just lame food.

And by that I mean stop avoiding/procrastinating working on toy drive.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



gingerkid said:


> I'm sure you'll be fine... maybe it'll be one of those things where it gets better without working on it? Maybe?


Based on what I saw at tonight's private? 

...Apparently so. Wow. 180 degree weave entry, 18 weaves on a course, multiple discriminations, hard crosses, the works. She also got called a very honest little dog by the instructor (and man is she ), and I got told I've really improved with thinking on my feet.

ETA: Also? I can't blind cross to save my life. So that's my new thing to practice.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Actually, the further in this thing I get the more I kind of crack up. 

I have a dog who can hit 180 degree weave entries, and do some pretty hard technical things at least for our venue of choice - but I can't do a blind cross. More and more I realize 'I'm pretty good at training dogs and I absolutely suck at agility'. LOL. We're getting there, but I swear improving MY skills is 100% harder than training the dogs to do anything.

I need some spatial awareness and coordination.


----------



## gingerkid

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



CptJack said:


> Actually, the further in this thing I get the more I kind of crack up.
> 
> I have a dog who can hit 180 degree weave entries, and do some pretty hard technical things at least for our venue of choice - but I can't do a blind cross. More and more I realize 'I'm pretty good at training dogs and I absolutely suck at agility'. LOL. We're getting there, but I swear improving MY skills is 100% harder than training the dogs to do anything.
> 
> I need some spatial awareness and coordination.


Yes. Last class really hit this home for me. Like, we shaped weave entries - two poles with Ida finishing in position for the 3rd pole - in about 5 minutes in class. But when we started blind crosses... I *get* it, but I can't *DO* it. Like, I did ballroom dance, figure skating... I am not incapable of complicated footwork and generally knowing where I am. I *AM* incapable at tracking myself and a fuzzy spaz, however.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

NADAC today!

Novice Weavers first run was awesome, got a Q and 1st place!
Novice Weavers second run she did the first two weaves but the third one she hit her entrance wrong. I asked her to redo them and she stress sniffed so I called her to keep going and she finished happy.

Open Regular she was _done_ weaving, completely perfect run but for refusing the weaves. She dropped her head and did a stress sniff the first time I asked so we just kept running, and again she finished happy.

Open Jumpers she ran soooo beautifully, fast, happy, no stress, and that Q was a great way to end the day! 1st place as well (no other 20" dogs in Open).

Not going tomorrow or Sunday, but we had a really fun day and it was great to do 4 runs in an afternoon. I also ran one of our instructor's dogs in Excellent Jumpers. She's had to have a couple surgeries on her ankles so had students running her dogs today. I've never run him before, or really interacted with him much. We did sit-stays, stay-recall, touch, spins, tugging, and got really well connected before his run. I got a great lead out with him, he started perfectly, refused two jumps entirely to look around and wonder who the heck I was so I skipped them, then we finished the rest flawlessly.


----------



## Kyllobernese

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Went to enter Lucy in Advanced Jumpers at the next trial and then realized that the two Q's in Starters Jumpers were both with the same Judge so have to enter in Starters Jumpers both days. If I happen to get another Q in Starters jumper, I can move up to Advanced on Sundays. One of her Q's was last year, one this year and had not checked on the Judges. It is a Games trial so entered in Jumpers, Snooker, Gamblers and Steeplechase both days. I am leaving Kris, Bonnie and Susie at home as my sister can come over and feed them and will just take the little dogs with me.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



gingerkid said:


> Yes. Last class really hit this home for me. Like, we shaped weave entries - two poles with Ida finishing in position for the 3rd pole - in about 5 minutes in class. But when we started blind crosses... I *get* it, but I can't *DO* it. Like, I did ballroom dance, figure skating... I am not incapable of complicated footwork and generally knowing where I am. I *AM* incapable at tracking myself and a fuzzy spaz, however.


Yep. I GET the crosses, and the foot/arm work isn't hard. Predicting when the dog I can't see will be where, and getting my time right when I can't see the dog? And coordinating those? Yeah, that's an issue. I can do them with tunnels because the dog's path is predetermined, but otherwise? Apparently NOT. 



Sibe said:


> NADAC today!
> 
> Novice Weavers first run was awesome, got a Q and 1st place!
> Novice Weavers second run she did the first two weaves but the third one she hit her entrance wrong. I asked her to redo them and she stress sniffed so I called her to keep going and she finished happy.
> 
> Open Regular she was _done_ weaving, completely perfect run but for refusing the weaves. She dropped her head and did a stress sniff the first time I asked so we just kept running, and again she finished happy.
> 
> Open Jumpers she ran soooo beautifully, fast, happy, no stress, and that Q was a great way to end the day! 1st place as well (no other 20" dogs in Open).


Kylie does that with weavers. She's got really fast, happy, by and large consistent weaves now (she'll pop the odd set when something happens to her rhythm and she can't keep the mechanics together) but there are only so many weaves in her in a day, and weavers eats a LOT of them. We skipped a bunch in regular in January because she just... couldn't.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Tonight was so beautiful, you guys. One of those 'hair standing up on the back of your neck and chills' runs, where everything's just clicking beautifully and it's fast and fluid and perfect.

I still expect this weekend to be kind of awful because of being inside and temps being > 90 degrees, but I care even less than I did before because tonight we had PURE MAGIC.


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

CptJack, that's awesome!

The place I'm training now is part of the school of "No blind crosses ever ever ever". So one less thing to worry about. Though I think they would work quite well with Watson. He already crosses behind me on his own sometimes. I seriously think he blanks out and forgets what we're doing from time to time because the instructor will agree that I didn't cue it - I'm looking down at my left waiting for him to show up and all of a sudden he's on my right. While we're turning in a circle to the left. lol Maybe if we trained them he would stop doing them on his own.

Hazel's agility class is getting better. We are definitely keeping up which makes me feel good. In like 3 classes and a private lesson her grasp of 2o2o is almost as good as the other dogs in the class. And she is so easy to work with and engage.

I am realizing that our instructor is great at agility, and really knows her stuff, but she is not a very good dog trainer. I think she's just young and inexperienced - from what I can tell she's only had two dogs, both Aussies. She doesn't seem to be good at offering suggestions for actual training problems, though she can tell you exactly where you went wrong or sent your dog to the wrong obstacle or whatever. Thank goodness Hazel is the easiest dog ever and I'm fairly capable of the training part. My only issue with her right now is driving to a dead toy lying on the ground, and I think I can fix that myself because the instructor has zero useful suggestions (other than "build toy drive" which is not really the problem). 

Last week we were doing a grid ending in a tire and most dogs were going around the tire for whatever reason. She spent a good 15min with one dog - she got him to go through the tire on its own (which is good), but then she insisted on backing up and making him do the whole grid again, where he skipped the tire again. She went back and forth until he would do the grid with the tire, and *then* she moved the tire out from 15ft to 20ft (which was the original point of the grid) and had him do it again, where he skipped the tire again. It was just ... painful to watch. And bad dog training. Like, the second he did any jump + tire I would've gotten the heck out of there, but she kept going and kept pushing him. Luckily she realized her mistake by the time the next dog had the same issue and she just broke out the tire and worked on that and called it a day. But she seems to have a very hard time adapting to an individual dog and changing the plan she had in her head. 

I'm pretty sure Watson would fail hard in her classes.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



elrohwen said:


> CptJack, that's awesome!
> 
> The place I'm training now is part of the school of "No blind crosses ever ever ever". So one less thing to worry about. Though I think they would work quite well with Watson. He already crosses behind me on his own sometimes. I seriously think he blanks out and forgets what we're doing from time to time because the instructor will agree that I didn't cue it - I'm looking down at my left waiting for him to show up and all of a sudden he's on my right. While we're turning in a circle to the left. lol Maybe if we trained them he would stop doing them on his own.


I really like my instructor for her willingness to teach things whether she personally loves them or not. Of course she also rolls her eyes at 'trends' in dog handling pretty hard. OTOH, we haven't really done much with them in forever and while I can pull them off in some circumstances in most I just can't. The dog's fine and somehow ends up where she needs to be obstacle wise, but I end up having to scramble backward to get out of her way for at least a couple of steps EVERY time. I apparently just can't judge where she's going to be and where I'm going that way. I don't know. 

That class would make me bonkers. It would make me extra bonkers because I don't own a single dog who would tolerate that. Molly would be frantic from being wrong too often and get stuck in an endless OCD loop of doing it wrong. Kylie would QUIT.


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



CptJack said:


> I really like my instructor for her willingness to teach things whether she personally loves them or not. Of course she also rolls her eyes at 'trends' in dog handling pretty hard. OTOH, we haven't really done much with them in forever and while I can pull them off in some circumstances in most I just can't. The dog's fine and somehow ends up where she needs to be obstacle wise, but I end up having to scramble backward to get out of her way for at least a couple of steps EVERY time. I apparently just can't judge where she's going to be and where I'm going that way. I don't know.
> 
> That class would make me bonkers. It would make me extra bonkers because I don't own a single dog who would tolerate that. Molly would be frantic from being wrong too often and get stuck in an endless OCD loop of doing it wrong. Kylie would QUIT.


They're pretty hardcore into "We do the Greg Derrett system and that's what we do". And the Greg Derrett system says you never turn your back on your dog.

The place has 3 instructors - the owner, who has been pretty successful in AKC at a national level. She teaches mostly masters level classes. I wanted to do privates with her but she's only available weekdays while I'm at work because she does classes all evening.

Then one guy who seems to do mostly privates and is starting some foundation classes on weekends. Watson did one private with him and is doing another this weekend and I *love* him. His first dog is basically Watson's twin, so he really got Watson right away and I liked all of his suggestions. Our lesson was much more about the dog training than the agility. If Watson ever starts group classes it will be with this guy.

Then there's the youngest girl, who teaches most of the foundations and pre-novice level classes. Like I said, really good at agility and setting up all of the "right" exercises for the dogs (like various grids) and teaching handling skills. But her ability to train different dogs through various issues is pretty novice (at least for what I'm used to). But Hazel is the best ever so it really hasn't been a problem for us yet. But I feel like the time will come when I have to say "No really, she's done for right now, we're not going to try that again".


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I often feel like I hit the jackpot with Andrea. She teaches stopped contacts, but if you show up in her class and say "We do running" she says 'OK!' and picks up the target, stands back and that's that. If you don't want your dog on some equipment or another, she jokes and moves on. If you have toy drive, she'll help you use it. If you don't, she'll give you alternatives. If your dog is stressing or shutting down and you don't see it, *she* will call an exercise or lesson before she'll let the dog burn. If your dog is over the top, she'll help you figure out how to regain focus or cap it. 

But all of it comes down to the fact that she's actively paying attention and helping people, even in these big club wide practices and trials where she's running the trial and running her own dogs. She really takes the time to learn about the dogs, and she *knows* them. I have shown up to lessons after practices or trials, sometimes a week later and had her say 'So, I noticed this about the practice or trial-" Sometimes they're things that were awesome, sometimes they're things that we struggled with, but they're things *I* don't remember. When there were changes in NADAC and we started offering a new class, she not only held an 'advanced' class, she busted her butt and was giving lessons daylight to dark Friday - Sunday to get people up to speed. She's done B-Mod stuff with Molly - for free - and will ultimately be doing more casual stuff with us this summer. 

She is knowledgable, but she also seriously cares about seeing her students succeed. I just... really, really adore that woman. 

And I'm gushing, but it's that kind of day.


----------



## elrohwen

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I don't want to be too harsh on her, because everybody starts somewhere. And her agility skills are really solid. I like how structured the class is and how the exercises each week all build on each other. Other classes I've been in kind of felt haphazard and like we were doing random sequences or activities each week. But this feels like the whole syllabus has been laid out in a very detailed way. It's also extremely foundations focused and most of the dogs have been in the class for 9 months and are only starting to go over a full height dog walk. I think the owner is responsible for all of the class structure.

I'm just used to instructors who have been training dogs as long as I've been alive. It's weird to actually be older than the instructor for once. For all I know, I've been training dogs for a fairly similar amount of time too.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Oh, I wasn't trying to be hyper-critical either, and you having enough experience and confidence to take care of your own dogs and seek other help probably more than compensates for any failing there. I just get extremely warm and fuzzy about where I am once in a while - and grateful. That said I suspect a lot of what I love is possible because we're NOT a huge facility or club. Successful people in both the instructor and her students for sure, but not BIG.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I entered my trials for July and August! I can only handle one trial a month. They are exhausting. 

We need a new slip leash for agility. I want something that is soft around the neck, maybe fleece lined? Any suggestions? What do you all use?


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Rush to tug - martingale or full slip. The fleece can be an issue because it soaks up water like a towel, but they're by far my favorite leashes for agility.

Also, we're trialing this weekend. It's going to be over 90 degrees. My goal is basically 'don't die, and don't let the dog die'.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



CptJack said:


> Rush to tug - martingale or full slip. The fleece can be an issue because it soaks up water like a towel, but they're by far my favorite leashes for agility.
> 
> Also, we're trialing this weekend. It's going to be over 90 degrees. My goal is basically 'don't die, and don't let the dog die'.


Oh, well looks good to me. I'll just go ahead and order one! 

Good luck at your trial! Spend lots of time in the shade.


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Finished my last foundations agility class! Haku did great in the last class. Did the bending tunnels almost perfect, which was our biggest struggle! He really was having fun and did great. We put a lot of jumps and tunnels and the a-frame together, and he did the chute with it completely closed (which is pretty heavy for a 3 pound dog!). I wish I could post a video my friend took, but it's hard to do from facebook. I'll try.
[video]https://www.facebook.com/georgia.kerunsky/videos/10153896301698791/[/video]

And even though I can't really afford it, I signed up for the next round of classes! If we can get this far after 6 weeks, imagine what another 8 will do!!


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

How did today go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSmNdQFalEE
Mostly like that - and it's not sarcasm when I say this is a memory I will cherish forever and am glad to have caught on video.

Or maybe this start on a compilation of Kylie telling me off: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL4YZr1aGj8

We only got 1 Q and it was in tunnelers, but? We were the FASTEST open dog period, and we were the only clean open dog. I'm cool with that.

We'll see what tomorrow brings.


----------



## Sibe

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

DISCUSS:
When you walk a course, in class or at a trial, what are you doing? What are you looking for? How do you walk it? Do you walk it different ways or try different things?


Thinking about it, I think here's basically what I do.
First time is just finding the cones. Second time I'm looking at how I'm getting from one obstacle to the next, figuring out where/how/what kind of cross I want to use, looking closely at obstacle discrimination, what she sees coming out of tunnels, traps, making sure I'm pausing at contacts and running through the last jump, etc. Third time I walk from the first jump away 3+ steps to find my start position and then my lead out position if I'm leading out; I walk it with the crosses and may try with alternatives to see if it feels better or to plan in case I'm behind/in front of her and need to adjust during the actual run. Might repeat this step. In class this is usually where I stop. At a trial I try to actually run the course once if it's not too crowded as the speed changes how things feel.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I walk it the first time finding the cones and the broad, general patterns that are within the course - and where direction/side changes are needed and note any challenges and come up with my loose plan - yeah, while I"m walking first go. Second time walking through I come up with a more specific plan for the tricky bits. There may be several tries at different points with different crosses or methods. Third time, I run full out through the course if I can at all. 

That's honestly about it. After that I go off to the side and use the rest of my walk through time (4 minutes) to basically get some muscle memory going for the crosses make sure I KNOW where the course is going/it's burned into my short term memory. Ie: I stand in place and 'mini-walk' it (ie: within about 5 sqfeet) with commands and crosses in place, and stare at the course while I do it.


----------



## ireth0

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Agility on Friday we worked on jumps (we're fine tuning what reward system/method works best for Luna) and I think we're finally got it sorted.

Also did some weaves, and started waiting to reward until after the runs them, which went great.

Finally we worked a little bit on contacts, and then got to do the dog walk for the first time. Luna did such a great job! I was so proud! Walked the whole thing like she had done it a million times total 'no big deal' attitude, and then still remembered to do her contact at the end. 

Later while I was helping clean up she was doing her dinner in a food toy. I looked up and saw her rolling it across the dog walk. So apparently the dog walk is fun, hahaha.

Also I love our class/instructor. It's such a great group, everyone is so nice and supportive. It's so interesting watching how each dog needs to approach things a little differently. One's reward is a ball toss, one is a tug/toy, one does best with a food reward on a target, Luna does a combination of tug and food. It was nice to have the full group together again as well. The last few weeks it's been a bit chaotic with trials and our instructor had to be out for an illness, so things were cancelled and we got moved to different groups and etc.

I love the "why don't we try this" attitude, trying to find what works for that particular dog and handler.


----------



## MrsBoats

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I haven't posted in this thread in a while.  I finally learned that Ocean needs to be in the agility game some what regularly or else we backslide a good bit. I took a big chunk time off the winter off this year and it was about 6 weeks before we meshed back together as a team. Instead of taking 4 months off from agility...we'll probably take 2 off in the winter from now on or take those natural breaks when the trials wane. Like right now, we have a three week break from trialing until July 9-10th. 

But, I am happy to say that Ocean and I were able to get out of Open in AKC which was my goal for 2016. The last week of May that final Standard leg fell as well as our 2nd Open JWW Q. Then a couple of days later the last Open JWW Q fell. I can't tell you how happy I am to finally get into Excellent AKC across the board...this is uncharted territory for me since Lars and I couldn't seem to get there. I made a pact with myself once I got to excellent that I would not get wrapped up in qualifying but I would handle the best I possibly could. This past weekend living this new mantra of not worrying about the Q, Ocean and I were able to grab 2 Excellent Jumpers Qs and our second Excellent FAST Q. Our standard runs were really nice...but it was normal dog agility goofs that happen in Excellent to everyone that kept us from Qing. I didn't get videos of our runs on Friday and Saturday. But, I was able to get some from Sunday where we didn't Q at all and that's fine Ocean was pretty tired by that point. 

Here was our awesome Ex. Standard NQ run.  I pulled too far to the left when he was approaching the double and he ran by it and then dropped the bar on the next jump because he was on top of it when he finally saw it. I was so happy with my handling choices on this course. 






Then here was our Ex. JWW run which I was also really, really happy with. Ocean was burnt by this point...and two bars came down. That's usually my big hint he's pretty tired, the bars start to come down. Three days is a lot for him and we have been trialing a lot since the beginning of May. These next three weeks off will do him some good.


----------



## DogtorWho15

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Im just subscribing to this thread so I can get an early start on all things dog sports LOL!!

It looks like Nova and I are gonna be joining agility classes early next year which I absolutely cant wait for.
And we have our first (very beginner) rally competition in 2 weeks! 

I had a question as well. Does my dog have to be a pure bred to compete in most competitions?


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



DogtorWho15 said:


> Im just subscribing to this thread so I can get an early start on all things dog sports LOL!!
> 
> It looks like Nova and I are gonna be joining agility classes early next year which I absolutely cant wait for.
> And we have our first (very beginner) rally competition in 2 weeks!
> 
> I had a question as well. Does my dog have to be a pure bred to compete in most competitions?


I think (I could be wrong as I'm not too knowledgable about all this yet!) mixed breeds can compete in agility in akc and ckc to my knowledge and those are the big 'purebred' shows so I would think you shouldn't have an issue.


----------



## Kyllobernese

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I am not sure in the States but in Canada an unregistered dog can get a performance number in the CKC and compete in Agility, Rally and Obedience.


----------



## crysania

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Your dog doesn't have to be purebred to compete in the States. AKC allows mixed breed dogs (both of mine are registered). Check out their Canine partners program (http://www.akc.org/dog-owners/canine-partners/). USDAA and CPE for agility are open to all dogs as well. I'm not sure about other rally venues but I know friends who compete in all sorts of rally things with their mixed breed dogs.

I've started doing agility with Ben. We started with foundation classes late last summer. It's taken us awhile to get up to doing even basic sequences because he had some serious impulse control and distraction and stress issues in the beginning. But he's getting better all the time! My instructor also believes in doing a LOT of foundation and handling work on the flat before we introduce them to jumps at their height, etc. 

This is a video of Ben at a seminar in April...his first time trying a short sequence!

https://youtu.be/IuWbAIRQtqM


----------



## kadylady

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Well I'm finally catching my breath from CPE Nationals last weekend. We had a fantastic time. My goals going into this were to have a great time with Zoey, knowing this would probably be her only national event and the biggest event we've ever been to. Competition wise I was hoping we could realistically pick up 4 Qs, knowing the venue, the level of corse difficulty and how much we prepped. I'm so proud to say that we accomplished all of those things. We picked up exactly 4 Qs out of 9 runs. It was so hot and there was so much going on and Zoey worked so hard for me, even when she was exhausted. There were 778 dogs entered, 6 rings running, and so hot Saturday and Sunday. It was a great time. With our 2 warmup runs on Thursday, we did 11 runs over 4 days, which I knew would be a lot for Zoey, both mentally and physically. But she really hung in there, she even qualified on our 9th run. So proud of her. Now she's going to get some much deserved time off from agility to do some of her favorite things...like weekends at the lake! I won't be trialing until August at the earliest with Skye and possibly September with Zoey. We pushed real hard the first half of this year prepping for nationals and I know Zoey is starting to get burnt out. So the break should do us all some good. Now, on to videos!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



kadylady said:


> Well I'm finally catching my breath from CPE Nationals last weekend. We had a fantastic time. My goals going into this were to have a great time with Zoey, knowing this would probably be her only national event and the biggest event we've ever been to. Competition wise I was hoping we could realistically pick up 4 Qs, knowing the venue, the level of corse difficulty and how much we prepped. I'm so proud to say that we accomplished all of those things. We picked up exactly 4 Qs out of 9 runs. It was so hot and there was so much going on and Zoey worked so hard for me, even when she was exhausted. There were 778 dogs entered, 6 rings running, and so hot Saturday and Sunday. It was a great time. With our 2 warmup runs on Thursday, we did 11 runs over 4 days, which I knew would be a lot for Zoey, both mentally and physically. But she really hung in there, she even qualified on our 9th run. So proud of her. Now she's going to get some much deserved time off from agility to do some of her favorite things...like weekends at the lake! I won't be trialing until August at the earliest with Skye and possibly September with Zoey. We pushed real hard the first half of this year prepping for nationals and I know Zoey is starting to get burnt out. So the break should do us all some good. Now, on to videos!


Big congrats! I heard that Nationals was a bit brutal between the hot weather and all the echoing in the building. I also heard Jackpot was almost impossible.. how did that go for you?


Ocean looks awesome MrsBoats. I love watching that big guy run! Someone recently said that Rotties weren't very fast in agility. I instantly thought of your dogs and how wrong they were.


----------



## kadylady

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Big congrats! I heard that Nationals was a bit brutal between the hot weather and all the echoing in the building. I also heard Jackpot was almost impossible.. how did that go for you?



Yeah, the heat and humidity was the killer for us. Saturday was so hot and then Sunday even though the temps weren't as high the humidity was awful. And I have a usually pretty heat tolerant dog. I carted her cooling pad around to the rings and made her lay on it until we went in. Surprisingly the ring she did best in was the outdoor covered pavilion. She had a 100% Q rate in that ring. That was the coolest ring because of being all open to the breeze but shaded from the sun, but it was also the noisiest ring as far as the loud speaker was concerned. It's hard when the dogs haven't had a chance to acclimate to the heat yet and it comes on suddenly like that. Friday there was a storm delay and 2/3 of the people had to run in the rain in the outside rings, luckily I was the last rotation in that ring on Friday and all the rain had passed by the time we were outside. 

The Jackpot was brutal. I believe the final count was 27 dogs out of 778 qualified. We made one attempt and moved on lol I wasn't going to stress her out about it, there was no way she was going out over 15 feet away from me to the weaves in a trial. The thing was though, even dogs that had decent sends and handlers that did a good job of directing them...so many dogs acted like they couldn't even see the weaves. They wanted to go out but they had no clue where to go. So yeah, it was tough. And the hardest part wasn't the fact that they had to send to 6 weaves....it's that they had to send to 6 weaves with the handler not able to show any motion and an off course tunnel right in their path. If you showed any motion your dog was taking that tunnel. I had no expectations of qualifying in jackpot lol


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Started our Basics Agility class today (the step up from our agility foundations class). My dog is pretty much the star of the class. Did everything with hardly a single wrong step. My friend is also in the class. Her dog can be a little silly but overall does everything right, and the worst he does is run with her past a jump. 
We crossed our fingers that one of the ladies from the foundations class did not end up signing up for the same Basics class, and of course, she was. Nothing against the lady but she wastes SO much time in the classes because she asks her dog to do something and it _sometimes_ does it, but often times it ends up romping around the whole room. The lady mostly just stands there and hap hazardly calls the dog while the trainer tries to herd it back towards the lady. Then instead of just doing the thing the dog messed up she goes 3 obstacles back and tries to get them all again, and of course the dog messes up after the first or second obstacle and the cycle starts all over again. At least this class the trainer made her put the dog back on leash.
And then the OTHER lady in the class has a belgian tervuren that was super reactive at the start of the class, but then was scared and slow the whole rest of class. the dog could hardly walk over the jumps tossing treats ahead of it for each one. It would literally stand in front of the jump for like 30 seconds before decided to slowly walk over it (where as Haku and I are sequencing tunnel jump jump, working on tight turn to a jump on the bend, jump jump tunnel with no issues). Trying to do the teeter exercise (teeter was set up so it would only 'drop' like 4") was even more painful.
Thank goodness my friend is in the same class as me so we can chit chat while all of this is going on or I think it would be very annoying and frustrating! It feels like the 2 ladies should have stayed in foundations class. the trainer did start to let me and my friend go twice to the other ladies' one so that helped a bit, but lets hope these ladies start making decent progress!


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I'm going to be honest with you? 

If your dog hasn't been that dog yet, odds are at some point it will be. I know it's frustrating, but I've seen so many of these dogs over my... what, 4 foundations, 4 beginner, 3 intermediate and advanced class that I am pretty content now in saying "yep, it's a dog", and more than once the star of the previous class has become the 'romp around the room' dog in the next one - or the 'HOLY CRAP SCARED OF EVERYTHING' dog. Staying in foundations to get the SKILLS is useful, but if it's a confidence problem or a 'new class and dog is wild one' then there's not much that's going to help so you keep plugging on and working on the agility and the other stuff on the side. 

It'll be okay, the dogs will probably turn it around eventually, as long as they're worked on.


----------



## crysania

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

I was JUST thinking that...you WILL be that handler/dog sometime. Because there WILL be something your dog struggles with while others don't find it difficult. My first dog breezed through foundations. She was older, had great impulse control, while other dogs struggled. But she was slow and had no confidence and so as we got further in she struggled more and I went from the "Oh my dog is awesome!" to the one who had to spend a LOT of time with the instructor. 

It could be the weave poles you have to do a million times. Or the teeter your dog is afraid of. Or the rear crosses you just CANNOT get. Trust me. You'll find something sometime that you struggle with. Agility will get you in the end like it does all of us! lol


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



crysania said:


> I was JUST thinking that...you WILL be that handler/dog sometime. Because there WILL be something your dog struggles with while others don't find it difficult. My first dog breezed through foundations. She was older, had great impulse control, while other dogs struggled. But she was slow and had no confidence and so as we got further in she struggled more and I went from the "Oh my dog is awesome!" to the one who had to spend a LOT of time with the instructor.
> 
> It could be the weave poles you have to do a million times. Or the teeter your dog is afraid of. Or the rear crosses you just CANNOT get. Trust me. You'll find something sometime that you struggle with. Agility will get you in the end like it does all of us! lol


Yep. 

The 'star' of our foundations class lost is ever loving find and the ability to agility at all when he turned about a year old. Just total puppy brain, and is only just now getting back into it at about 3 years old - and this was a dog who had an experienced owner and really good obedience foundations. Dogs have developed weird phobias or fear issues based on everything from 'dog slipped on the contact' to 'a dog barked while they were in the tunnel' to 'who knows what they just now hate X, Y, and Z'. Dogs GAINING confidence and suddenly blowing handlers off, for weeks on end, or getting super into the game and becoming frustrated reactive waiting their turn, or -

Yeah. It's always something. Do it long enough and sooner or later you will have that dog.

And that's not even TOUCHING the runs of 'I don't know what's wrong with me/my dog but everything on this course/at this trial went wrong and I don't understand we can do this!!! weekends. As opposed to 'my dog has spent 6 weeks pretending it doesn't know how to recall' or whatever. 

That said, the instructor shouldn't be shafting you and your friend to instruct the other dogs, but instructing them through this crap is part of the deal. It can be frustrating to watch and I do sympathize. Just don't let go of your sympathy either, because. Well. It's going to happen to you eventually :/


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

In all honesty, it isn't really the dogs, its the way the owners handle the dogs/situation. Often ignoring or not listening to what the trainer is saying(like the one lady the trainer told her that when her romping dog got back to her that she should feed it a treat then have it sit (I assume so she could put the leash on) and instead the lady thought 'oh he came back so I'm just gonna keep going on the obstacles', or when the trainer told the other lady to take the reactive dog in a certain direction and the lady ignored her and walked her dog where it would go right in front of another dog who is known to bark) , or re-doing multiple obstacles instead of the one it messed up on (yes, sometimes it's nice to connect the messed up obstacle with the previous obstacles, but when you know the dog is highly likely to mess up to previous obstacles then you have to spend time back at those obstacles before hopefully getting to the obstacle originally messed up on you should probably just do the messed up obstacle or maybe one obstacle before it), and they just seem to lack basic dog knowledge or skills. I do understand how frustrating it is when your dog isn't doing what you are asking of it, and am lucky Haku is a little superstar (though there have been some moments where he has had an issue here or there), but I always try to do exactly what the trainer is telling me, especially if something isn't going totally right.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Usually the instructor we have wants you to go back 2 or 3 obstacles or, honestly, start over entirely if something gets messed up. So that's pretty typical/normal. The difficulty is often in the sequence and just redoing 1 won't achieve what you need. There's a time you get one and go, but starting over's pretty on par for at least a couple of goes/unless the dog's brain is frying and they're getting frustrated. Though if they're new enough that the dog is always missing jumps or whatever, you really need to do some remedial training on your own time, rather than throwing the dog off the deep end. 

Not listening though, I hear entirely and that's nutty. We've had some people in my classes do that and it makes me insane.


----------



## crysania

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Oh man the trials or classes where everything goes wrong are INSANE. Like...there are times I've turned to people and been like "No really, my dog does know this stuff." 

Also, crap happens. My dog was attacked by a dog on a walk once, dog ripped out a bunch of hair and made a good puncture on her shoulder. It made her really stressed out and distracted and so when we went back to class, she literally could not do ANYTHING without pacing around and watching the other dogs. It took months to work through it. So yeah, we had to spend extra time for a bit and I felt bad but my instructor worked us through it while still making sure everyone else got their time.

Then I got my second dog. And he was the super distracted sniffy running around in great big zoomies oh so frustrated at having to WAIT to do stuff and not being able to figure it out. Yeah first classes were pretty rough with him and again, lots of time spent with us. Now he's getting it and we're moving along nicely while others are struggling, but I totally expect to hit more snags down the line. It just happens.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iVMnqmEm_Y - This is my last trial. 

Let me repeat: OPEN/ELITE DOG. She's already titled IN elite regular and is accumulating NATCH points. WE DO know how to do this stuff. 

And yet.

This entire trial. Was *that*.

And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSmNdQFalEE 

Sometimes, you've just gotta laugh.


----------



## crysania

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Yup...fun isn't it? I had a trial where my dog wouldn't leave the start line. At all. I have no idea. She just refused to move and stared at me. (She's a dog who stresses down so she was PROBABLY stressed but I have no explanation for WHY that day she was so stressed out when she had trialed there before fine and nothing untoward had happened.)


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



CptJack said:


> Usually the instructor we have wants you to go back 2 or 3 obstacles or, honestly, start over entirely if something gets messed up. So that's pretty typical/normal. The difficulty is often in the sequence and just redoing 1 won't achieve what you need. There's a time you get one and go, but starting over's pretty on par for at least a couple of goes/unless the dog's brain is frying and they're getting frustrated. Though if they're new enough that the dog is always missing jumps or whatever, you really need to do some remedial training on your own time, rather than throwing the dog off the deep end.


The trainer will certainly asks people to redo things from the start or from a certain point if she feels that is helpful, but she does not tell this lady to do it because I'm sure she knows that likely the dog will mess up those obstacles too. Trying to get this dog over a single jump most of the time is difficult enough and if he misses the jump or just goes past it (or even when he goes over it), he's off for another 30+ second romp around the ring. He will randomly put a few things together ok, but that is most definitely few and far between.
Trust me, I'm hoping that they get it together and it's just a bump in the road as I'm sure we all experience (I rode and competed in jumping with horses for 18 years, I know how frustrating training animals can be), and I think this lady will get better if she keeps the dog on leash for a good while longer (she was always the first to drop the leash with her dog right from the beginning (no matter the trainer asking her multiple times to keep hold of the leash)) and the dog gets too much out of running around the ring (self rewarding) to be off leash yet.
The other dog just mostly seems to be very scared/worried so hopefully as class goes on that will get better, but the owner really doesn't have the dog skills to be of a lot of help.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*

Oh man, I haven't had a whole trial go like that but I have had a 'I'm stressed and not leaving' thing happen once or twice- or she'll come off it really slow and be walking and the only thing we can do is try to get out. 

And of course the fun part: Once dog starts being weird and/or stressing, *YOU* get stressed and/or start making mistakes (or I do). Nothing quite like playing a strategy and speed game where your teammate's another species to keep things interesting


----------



## MysticRealm

Again, I know that dogs (and horses) and people will have off days and things will go totally to poop. That's not what I'm talking about.


----------



## CptJack

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



MysticRealm said:


> The trainer will certainly asks people to redo things from the start or from a certain point if she feels that is helpful, but she does not tell this lady to do it because I'm sure she knows that likely the dog will mess up those obstacles too. Trying to get this dog over a single jump most of the time is difficult enough and if he misses the jump or just goes past it (or even when he goes over it), he's off for another 30+ second romp around the ring. He will randomly put a few things together ok, but that is most definitely few and far between.
> Trust me, I'm hoping that they get it together and it's just a bump in the road as I'm sure we all experience (I rode and competed in jumping with horses for 18 years, I know how frustrating training animals can be), and I think this lady will get better if she keeps the dog on leash for a good while longer (she was always the first to drop the leash with her dog right from the beginning (no matter the trainer asking her multiple times to keep hold of the leash)) and the dog gets too much out of running around the ring (self rewarding) to be off leash yet.
> The other dog just mostly seems to be very scared/worried so hopefully as class goes on that will get better, but the owner really doesn't have the dog skills to be of a lot of help.


It certainly sounds like this dog needs more experience and/or foundations work and/or obedience.

But erm. Agility on leash IMO is a big fat NO from obstacle ONE. Never, ever, ever.


----------



## MysticRealm

*Re: New &quot;agility classes&quot; thread*



CptJack said:


> It certainly sounds like this dog needs more experience and/or foundations work and/or obedience.
> 
> But erm. Agility on leash IMO is a big fat NO from obstacle ONE. Never, ever, ever.


I guess different trainers/facilities train differently.


----------



## CptJack

MysticRealm said:


> Again, I know that dogs (and horses) and people will have off days and things will go totally to poop. That's not what I'm talking about.


Yes, the rest of this is us talking amongst ourselves. 

Though frankly I've yet to see a dog who didn't have off MONTHS in agility at some point, and you're awful invested in 'star of the class'. I'm saying most of this as a reminder to yourself that you're likely going to be in this position at some point and as frustrating as it may be to watch, judgement really isn't going to achieve much and some tolerance costs you nothing. 

I've had the star in the class. I've had the reactive fearful nut. I've had the 'can't do a single jump'. I've been in classes where dogs romped for more like FIVE MINUTES before every turn. The handlers need to be listening and working on obedience and recall at least, but it's reallllly mostly up to the instructor to handle it and odds are high that they are.

*ETA:* I get your frustration, I really do and I sympathize with it. I've wanted to strangle some dogs and handlers in my classes, but. It'll shake out in the end and it's probably not really affecting your ability to learn. And if they don't get a grip they'll fall out in their own soon enough.



MysticRealm said:


> I guess different trainers/facilities train differently.


They do!

And I won't pull an 'everyone said', but 'never on leash with obstacles' is a realllly common opinion due to safety concerns, as well as performance ones.


----------



## MysticRealm

I am not invested in being 'star of the class'. Last class there were 3 'stars of the class' and it switched up depending. Haku would sometimes get tired or 'done' by the end of classes on the warm days and his usually running and happily jumping he would walk/trot and have to 'think' about if he wanted to jump or not, and tunnels with a bend often had him going in turning around and coming back out the same way. My friend's dog when he's not too hyper rips around the courses crazy fast, no one could be faster. Then there was a viszla that would sometimes have issues entering the tunnel or missing a jump but he would often have the best smoothest rounds.
But right now, Haku happens to be being a superstar, but next class I'm sure me and my friend will be neck and neck or she'll have a better class. 
If these ladies listened to the instructors (bonus if they seemed to have general dog sense/skills )it wouldn't hardly be at all frustrating.


----------



## MysticRealm

I DID want to add that I am not ashamed at all that my Haku CAN be 'star of the class'! I am very proud of him (and me) and the progress we have made in just a few classes. And I don't think it's bad that I am proud of him at all.


----------



## ziggzmom

A little different angle regarding the student who doesnt listen to the instructor...Is the student really ignoring what the instructor says? I've had students in my classes (competition obedience) that, despite repeated instruction and demonstration, do things incorrectly. They dont realize they are doing it wrong and are listening and trying their best but need more help to figure out how to get it right. It's easy to pass judgement on others abilities (or lack of) but I think most people do the best they can. Just my opinion...

Happy Training!


----------



## CptJack

ziggzmom said:


> A little different angle regarding the student who doesnt listen to the instructor...Is the student really ignoring what the instructor says? I've had students in my classes (competition obedience) that, despite repeated instruction and demonstration, do things incorrectly. They dont realize they are doing it wrong and are listening and trying their best but need more help to figure out how to get it right. It's easy to pass judgement on others abilities (or lack of) but I think most people do the best they can. Just my opinion...
> 
> Happy Training!


Or in my case: Is the student HEARING what the instructor says. You know what I hear when I'm stressing/freaking out and trying to wrangle my dog? 

Not a single bloody freaking thing. Talk to me after, talk to me before, talking to me while wrangling the dog you may as well not be saying anything - because I can't hear you. 

Doesn't mean I haven't seen students who are know-it-alls and arguing, or outright blowing the instructor off and that's still frustrating as heck for everyone, but a lot of the time it really seems like things are just not getting through the fog of "OMGWTFDOG"


----------



## MysticRealm

I'm sure some of it is that. And I DO have a hard time dealing with people like that. The kind that just can't 'get things'. Not all of it is, for sure, like when the instructor asks the person to make the dog sit, or tells them to go a certain direction (and points) (you know things that are very direct, not a vague agility cue or something) and they just ignore it and keep doing what they were doing. But then it would probably be best that they don't move on to a more advanced class, which some of that is the facilities fault maybe for not having them do the foundations class again, but I can see where the facility doesn't want to lose clients which they could if they tell people they aren't ready to move onto the next class.


----------



## ziggzmom

Yup! Well said! Thats what I was talking about CptJack=)


----------



## CptJack

Instructor: "Let's try the weaves again with a little lateral distance." 
Me: "OK!"
Kylie: /Does weaves with a lot of lateral distance just fine. 
Instructor: "So, you're babysitting the weaves for no reason?"
Me: "...Basically?"
Instructor: "Yeah, no." 

I have no idea why this cracks me up, but it does. 

Also there was a rooster at our lesson this morning.


----------



## elrohwen

Our agility place caught on fire a couple hours after our last class on Friday :-( They are going to restart classes in a couple weeks in a field somewhere, but they have no idea when they will get the place rebuilt. So sad


----------



## DogtorWho15

elrohwen said:


> Our agility place caught on fire a couple hours after our last class on Friday :-( They are going to restart classes in a couple weeks in a field somewhere, but they have no idea when they will get the place rebuilt. So sad


OH NO!! Thats awful! Do they know what started it?


----------



## elrohwen

DogtorWho15 said:


> OH NO!! Thats awful! Do they know what started it?


I don't think so. The building has an entrance lobby, a boarding/grooming area, and the big agility area. The boarding/grooming area is completely melted (it's a metal building) so my guess is that it started there. The adjoining walls of the agility part and entrance area are destroyed but the rest of the buildings are standing. The firefighters were able to save the 4 dogs in the boarding area which is the most important part.


----------



## ireth0

Luna was doing an awesome job with her outs for tug rewards this class, I was so happy with her! She also killed her dog walk contacts and did a great job targeting with her nose and not paws! There were a couple times even where she went over the jump super FAST! Yay!

She also had super zoomies and walked on top of the tunnel the whole way across instead of going in. 

We are so far behind everyone else in class, but it's neat to observe the other people and see how their dogs work differently and what they need.

Also, on the previous discussion. Yea, sometimes the trainer tells me to do something, and I hear her, and I end up not doing that thing because my body just doesn't do it, lol.

Last class, for example "Okay now let's try it with her on your right side."
Me "okay sure!" *does it again with her on my left* "...wait, I did that wrong didn't I?"
Trainer "Yep, but that's okay! Let's try it the other way this time."


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> And I won't pull an 'everyone said', but 'never on leash with obstacles' is a realllly common opinion due to safety concerns, as well as performance ones.


Our instructor allows us to use leashes until we start adding bars to the jumps. We do a lot of handling on the flat in foundation classes so the dogs learn that without having to actually jump, but then we start to move to actual jumps and that's when the leashes HAVE to come off. But our classes spend MONTHS in foundations (which I am thankful for). We started last July and we just got to doing sequences in April.


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> Or in my case: Is the student HEARING what the instructor says. You know what I hear when I'm stressing/freaking out and trying to wrangle my dog?
> 
> Not a single bloody freaking thing. Talk to me after, talk to me before, talking to me while wrangling the dog you may as well not be saying anything - because I can't hear you.
> 
> Doesn't mean I haven't seen students who are know-it-alls and arguing, or outright blowing the instructor off and that's still frustrating as heck for everyone, but a lot of the time it really seems like things are just not getting through the fog of "OMGWTFDOG"


Add actual hearing loss to that and you get ME. I struggle in class sometimes because I don't hear everything the instructor says. I always pray that I can go at least second so I can watch someone to understand what she meant and when I go first sometimes it looks like I didn't listen at all. When in reality I just didn't quite get it all because it was a worse hearing day than usual.


----------



## crysania

I have been really bad about only training in classes lately. Which is how I always had to do it before as I had no yard and therefore no equipment. But I have a yard now. And some jumps and a cheapie tunnel. And I just don't bother because I'm lazy. Which means we're falling behind.

So last night I got the jumps out and did some basic work. Mostly a jump grid to work on getting Ben to jump at what will likely be his proper jump height (20 inches) and some tunnel stuff. He looked pretty darned amazing! He picks this stuff up so fast!


----------



## gingerkid

The biggest thing I took away from yesterday's agility class: point boobs in the direction you want the dog to go.


----------



## crysania

gingerkid said:


> The biggest thing I took away from yesterday's agility class: point boobs in the direction you want the dog to go.


OMG are you taking classes where I go? LOL My teacher is always about pointing the boobs!


----------



## CptJack

Why do other people get all the fun? All I get is 'STOP! LOOK WHERE YOUR FEET ARE POINTED!'. Maybe it's because my dog's short?


----------



## gingerkid

crysania said:


> OMG are you taking classes where I go? LOL My teacher is always about pointing the boobs!


lol! I'm actually rephrasing my instructor's coaching... basically, my bowling coach (my husband) always told us to "point our shoulders where you want the ball to go", but "point your shoulders...." isn't helpful to me b/c I can't SEE where my shoulders are pointing, so it somehow ended up becoming "point your boobs" but it TOTALLY MAKES SENSE. If my boobs are pointing one way, so are my shoulders!


----------



## crysania

Totally makes sense! My instructor's kind of a perv (she is HILARIOUS) so the point your boobs has been part of class since before I started there. It's often "STOP! Where are you boobs pointing???" We were contemplating t-shirts at one point.


----------



## gingerkid

I'd buy one.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

gingerkid said:


> The biggest thing I took away from yesterday's agility class: point boobs in the direction you want the dog to go.


BAHAHA! This sounds just like my class. We also call them "chest lasers".


----------



## Lillith

Ok. Note to self: Point boobs. Got it.

Anyways, Ralphie and I will be starting Agility shortly! I'm trying to get him into Beginning Agility at the local obedience club, but it requires an evaluation before you can enter the class. The instructor is being infuriating. I've been trying to contact her for 3 weeks, and the club superiors have even reached out to her, but she won't get back to me! Classes start July 11! Classes fill up fast, so I may just give up and get him into an Advanced Beginners obedience class instead. Ralphie seems to be transitioning from "Puppy Brain" to "I'm Kind of an Attentive Adult Brain," so perhaps another obedience class will be best for him.

Even if I can't get him into class, we get our fence next week, so I can set up my own little course to work on. He seems to love doing the obstacles, and I feel like the courses we did in Jump Start Obedience class really helped him gain some confidence. I'm sure it is a mixture of age and experience, too, but after learning new obstacles he always seemed less reactive and approached new things with a calm demeanor rather than exploding. And I feel like he's a natural! He took to it so quickly, and his happy face is just awesome!

I'm really excited to start learning about this sport!


----------



## Ash&Bailey

I'm super pleased with Bailey! I've done multiple classes with him over the course of a couple of years but never really made any steady progress. His nose tends to rule him and he has a thing with running off for sniffing mid run, but today he focused really well and I feel as though we are making some actual progress. Nowhere near competing level yet, but still, small steps!


----------



## CptJack

Hey guys? 

You remember all our weave-stress issues with Kylie? 

I turned around during our lesson this morning to look for her and found her merrily bopping her way through 12 poles. For, apparently, fun. Kind of the same way she sometimes chooses to run out and take a random jump because it's there and she wants to. 

I think I heard angels singing. 

Lots of other good stuff in lessons, but *man* that was rewarding.


----------



## CptJack

Okay, no. I'm going to post another thing that really illustrates while I love my instructor. 

There was this one sequence today that would have required basically two switches (tandem turns, rear crosses, flip turns, whatever - choose your terminology). I HATE having to do those freaking things. So I sort of jokingly whined 'do I have to do it that way?' and the instructor stepped back, sort of looked from the sequence to me and asked how I would do it. 

I answered her, and then I did it. 'My' method was basically just keeping the dog on one side the whole time; two back to back crosses lands that way, anyway. I just pushed out for that one obstacle. Then I did it with more lead up so the dog had more speed and it was a little less clean and pretty (there was some weaving in toward me, but just a little). 

So we came back and she said "All right, now -" And I interjected to say 'Do it the right way?" 

and we stopped there for a bit while she really explicitly said that there is no one right way in agility. That what I was doing wouldn't work for a bigger, longer striding dog or a handler who was further behind the dog, but that for *this* dog and team, it worked. We lost a tiny bit of time to curling in, but it worked. Ergo, not wrong. Fine, even. 

Then we moved on to doing it the other way, and you know what? Kylie did it beautifully. I admitted I would never have tried it, and we had a fun talk about THAT being the benefit of lessons. To be shoved out of my comfort zone to learn new skills, and have more handling options and that is absolutely, totally, true. 

It's just... such a nice balance of 'Try new things, learn new things, practice harder things pushing and challenging' and 'Hey, if it works, it works; there is no one true way'. 

In related news, she 'made' me do a blind cross today and you know what? I did it. In a sequence. At a jump. Perfectly. I'm learning things!


----------



## crysania

That's great! I love flexible instructors.

And two back to back crosses mean you CAN do a serpentine with the jumps, keeping the dog on one side. It means you have to get ahead of the dog but I did that a lot with my girl. It was easy to get ahead of her as she was slow slow slow and she LOVES the sort of serpentine handling.


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> That's great! I love flexible instructors.
> 
> And two back to back crosses mean you CAN do a serpentine with the jumps, keeping the dog on one side. It means you have to get ahead of the dog but I did that a lot with my girl. It was easy to get ahead of her as she was slow slow slow and she LOVES the sort of serpentine handling.



I don't actually need to be ahead of Kylie to do it with her, but when I'm behind is when I get curling in, and I couldn't do it from very far behind from sure. But she's 11" tall, so I'm not often behind her the way I would be with a faster/larger dog, AND she's got a literal 5 strides between most obstacles on a NADAC course so I have a lot of leeway with her. I'm going to be up a creek when I start handling Molly, but hey. Learning curves are fun!

ETA: I should probably be clear that this wasn't actually a serp. The jumps were aligned that way, in this particular sequences. Serps when it's going to land on the straight line we're usually advised to handle as a straight line, anyway. I should probably get a drawing or find an example somewhere but it was a pretty weird sequence. There was a lot of shoving her out /turning to get that second jump without using a tandem turn. BUT IT WORKED LOL.


----------



## crysania

I feel you on that! My dogs are about the same size but SUCH different personalities. My older dog has always been super mellow and hard to get moving. And she had very little confidence so was SUPER slow. I was always ahead of her and often had to slow down or stop or run in slow motion so she could catch up. My younger boy is FAST and crazy. It's going to be a whole new world with him!


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, it looks like Molly's actually going to slack of the neurotic and be able to handle the environment, which means come fall we're back at agility somewhere besides our back yard, and I'm honestly scared. Little dog can do do some decent speeds for her size, but that's like 4.5 YPS. Fast enough even in NADAC but not... insane. Just figuring out timing with Molly's going to be a trip.


----------



## ireth0

This week's class Luna was so awesome! First we had awesome tunnel moments. She did it without me physically guiding her with the harness AND she did it with a curved tunnel- previously she would only go through if she could see the other exit AND she did it with a flip away from me cue (turned away from me to turn into the tunnel) which was actually what the rest of the class was practicing! Woohoo!

Then we did our first ever two jumps in a row before a reward, and she did so great with that as well! I was so proud!


----------



## gingerkid

Question: at what point in your agility "career"/training did you start accumulating equipment? Jumps aren't an issue, but I'm thinking I might need to get a tunnel because Ida's being really flighty about it.


----------



## crysania

gingerkid said:


> Question: at what point in your agility "career"/training did you start accumulating equipment? Jumps aren't an issue, but I'm thinking I might need to get a tunnel because Ida's being really flighty about it.


I started training June 2010 and bought my first jump and cheapie tunnel in October of that year. I got a set of 4 other jumps the following spring. Really, it's never too soon! The stuff I bought were pretty cheap (the tunnel was a cheapie off eBay; costs like $40 on there now I think but I spent about $25) but it was enough to help out with the training!


----------



## CptJack

I got a tunnel probably after 3-4 months of classes when Kylie was still being weird about tunnels. Got some jumps and hoops just to have more handling options. Bought stick in the ground weave poles when I needed to teach them. Bought weaves on a base when I realized she wasn't transitioning back and forth between the two well. ...Bought an A-frame when one was available used for relatively cheap.

ETA: Also yeah. My tunnel was an ebay cheapie one and fine. I'm still using it and it works. The hoops were 15.00 each because of what they are. Jumps were PVC on ebay, though admittedly I still have a box of 4 in my living room unassembled. The only 'expensive' stuff were the weave poles (regulation/base ones) and the A-frame.


----------



## AsherLove

I JUST purchased 3 jumps and 6 weave poles, and have a relatively cheap tunnel sitting in my amazon cart.

Trying to find a puppy agility foundations class to take with my 3 month old standard poodle puppy. I found one place that does private instruction that would probably do a class (emailed them waiting to hear back). I also emailed the place I'm taking my Pom to, they don't show one on their website. I posted on a dog facebook page for my city asking who was offering them. One lady sounded too good to be true (private hour lessons for $30 ) but it feels strange that she runs it out of her backyard (which is a bit small for running agility classes) and she posted some videos of her foundations agility and I don't know. It's hard to tell if it looks poorly executed just cause of the fact that its in a backyard, or if it is poorly done. She seems to do a lot of targeting (hand, 'plate', 'stick'). But I haven't seen much in terms of body awareness stuff, other than in one video she had a 'ladder' on the ground for the dogs to go through. But I haven't seen any work such as a wobble board, 2 feet and 4 feet up on boxes, backing/backing over things. She seems to really focus on doing this one jump grid with 4 jumps in a row. Maybe it's just cause she's filming and maybe she doesn't film all of it so misses those things when taping or something. She did show video of her with her own dog and it seems to do pretty well. Very fast, seems to listen well, but just cause you can do doesn't mean that you can teach it so I'm not sure. Will see what the other 2 places say, and if any more spring up, and if not maybe I'll post a couple videos for other people's opinions.


----------



## kadylady

We are FINALLY making some good, solid progress on Skye's teeter!!!! Thank the agility gods!!! She had her best teeters ever last night in class. And, as her teeter confidence is improving, her dog walks are getting faster too. Last night both my instructor and I were holding our breath on her dog walks (it wasn't dangerous, we are both just still a little anxious about her scaring herself on things like that look like a teeter). The class we are in is an Excellent/Master level class and some of the courses have parts that are a little above our skill level, so we just break it down for her. But last night, it was a tough course and we really clicked and nailed it. Very proud of her. She also took Zoey's spot and ran double duty last night. Zoey is on her agility hiatus right now.


----------



## Lillith

So it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to get Ralphie into Beginning Agility until late August. Due to some technical difficulties (apparently, but I'm thinking she just forgot) I wasn't able to get his evaluation done and the class filled up. Instead, I am doing an Advanced Beginner Obedience class. Ralphie still has puppy brain and can be a nutcase, so perhaps it's for the best. He still wants to greet every dog and person he sees and then forgets I exist for about 10 minutes. But whatever, lol.

Anyways, I'm hoping to get a little course set up in our backyard once we get the fence up to practice on. Ralphie LOVES running over the obstacles, and it seems to boost his confidence and get him more in tune with me. At our last class after running through a course he walked through a group of strange dogs in perfect heel position that were yapping and barking because they were just coming into the building. Good luck with that happening on the street! 

So, at long length, do you guys have any recommendations for videos or reading material to get me started? We had minimal instruction on simple obstacles in some earlier classes, so I have some idea of how it works, but I don't want to start learning bad habits that we will have to unlearn later.


----------



## gingerkid

Hopefully someone else has some resource for you/us. Teaching the obstacles is the easy part, it's figuring out the most efficient way to go over them and directing your dog to follow that path that's the most challenging, IMO. The basics of that are pretty easy to work on at home, but it's difficult to explain...

There are online agility classes with the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, but I think their next session starts on August 1.


----------



## ireth0

This week we did a tunnel AND two jumps! Woohoo! And she was running! I had to get a lead and run to keep up! Yay so fast!


----------



## crysania

We had an amazing class last night! Ben is such a joy to run. We're starting to do REAL sequencing and the stuff we did last night (including some sends to tunnels and blind and front crosses!) I thought was beyond us at this level. But he was just amazing and did it all even though it was hot and humid. He's just so much FUN. Dahlia, my previous agility dog (love her dearly!) was agonizingly slow and hard to work up to the energy level needed. I was EXHAUSTED in every run with her because I had to cheerlead her so hard just to get her to move. But Ben just DOES it and I was barely even out of breath during our runs.


----------



## AsherLove

I got my agility jumps the other day! Since my pom is out of commission I took my 11 year old poodle over them. He did 1 group of classes when he was 2, then I'd have fun jumping him over some horse jumps a the barn but that's about it.


----------



## CptJack

Today in agility we reversed the typical discrimination (so today it was here tunnel, out walk it). She eventually got it, but I swear her brain melted and leaked out her ear. Great, great lesson and she did some really good distance stuff in there, but mostly the brain leaking discrimination thing. I'm not even kidding when I say I found that delightful. 

Also apparently I can do a blind cross now. ...Still hate them.


----------



## taquitos

I signed up for agility classes at another facility because I didn't like the way they taught it at the place nearby (the one run by the MAS breeder I almost went with). Wow, what a difference! This place costs more, but they are MUCH more thorough. We are doing our foundations course right now and I learned sooo much! I wish I had just gone here from the get-go.

The only thing that sucks is it's 40 mins away. I know it probably isn't *that* for you Americans, but in Montreal it's kinda far lol. Also, some of the instructors don't speak very good English, so a part of the classes are in French... which is OK, for the most part, except that my French is a bit rusty and I have trouble understanding some super thick Quebecois accents lol.

Regardless, SUPER happy with this place. They even taught us how to stretch dogs safely!


----------



## ireth0

taquitos said:


> I signed up for agility classes at another facility because I didn't like the way they taught it at the place nearby (the one run by the MAS breeder I almost went with). Wow, what a difference! This place costs more, but they are MUCH more thorough. We are doing our foundations course right now and I learned sooo much! I wish I had just gone here from the get-go.
> 
> The only thing that sucks is it's 40 mins away. I know it probably isn't *that* for you Americans, but in Montreal it's kinda far lol. Also, some of the instructors don't speak very good English, so a part of the classes are in French... which is OK, for the most part, except that my French is a bit rusty and I have trouble understanding some super thick Quebecois accents lol.
> 
> Regardless, SUPER happy with this place. They even taught us how to stretch dogs safely!


Our agility place is going to be about that far away after we move, but for a good class it's worth it!


----------



## jade5280

Signed up for our second round of beginners agility! Can't wait! Panzer will definitely enjoy getting back to it because he's been making up his own sequences jumping over furniture/people/dogs and smashing into things in our house.


----------



## crysania

ireth0 said:


> Our agility place is going to be about that far away after we move, but for a good class it's worth it!


Totally worth it! That was about the distance to the place I go for the first 5 years or so I went there. We moved and ended up about 15 minutes closer so now it's only about 25 and that's SUPER nice. Still a bit of a drive in our winter though!


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> Totally worth it! That was about the distance to the place I go for the first 5 years or so I went there. We moved and ended up about 15 minutes closer so now it's only about 25 and that's SUPER nice. Still a bit of a drive in our winter though!


Yep, add me to the list. My place is 45 minutes from home - which is the nearest place. I'm kind of used to traveling that far for just about everything, though.


----------



## crysania

I do have some places WAY closer, but one I tried used really aversive methods in their basic obedience class (that they required us to take first) and the other is indoors on mats and tends to be more old school too. So I chose this place because I loved it there. Totally worth the extra distance.


----------



## kadylady

I drive an hour and a half one way for agility class now. Which makes for a really late night one night a week but totally worth it to take a great class with a great instructor. And luckily I can run Zoey and Skye in back to back classes that same night.


----------



## elrohwen

The two previous places we trained were 50min and 80min away and totally worth the drive. Our new place is only 5-10min which is awesome! I didn't pick it for that reason, it just worked out that way.


----------



## CptJack

There are a few other places not much further away, but I really-really-really love my trainer. 

Today's lesson was good. Some distance stuff, bunches of crosses of all sorts, weird discriminations, quite a few weaves, and the dog was awesome. *MY* brain kept falling out in the middle of doing things, but we can't have it all, right? 

Honestly, Im' not doing much this summer. Weekly lessons, maybe a half hour somewhere else in the week working on something in the yard, but that's about it. We start trialing again middle of September, things'll probably ramp up again next month in prep for that, but we've definitely been having a break.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and I *do* have both running and stopped contacts. I actually managed to make that thing happen - reliably, barring me screwing up royally. So, I accomplished something this summer, at least.


----------



## sydneynicole

I got really into rally for a little while, but now that class is over for the summer I'm getting back into agility with Oli. So many months or rally/obedience stuff and a few classes I took with FDSA focusing on building bond and building drive have made a world of difference. I now realize that the reason I wasn't too thrilled with it before was because I got stuck in that rut right before it actually becomes fun, while you're learning the ground work/foundation stuff - my coach says it happens a lot. But all of the rally stuff we have done has really taught us how to work together, taught me how to communicate with him and him how to learn and that learning is fun. I'm now getting addicted to agility.


----------



## elrohwen

Friday was our first agility class in the new outdoor field since the indoor facility burned down. I was dreading it, because I figured Hazel would spend most of the class zooming and sniffing. The last time we had a class outside was April (different trainer and facility), and while she was ok for short activities, especially if they involved contact equipment, she was awful at sequences. She would take a jump and keep running straight, no matter what I cued her to do. lol Then she would zoom around sniffing everything for a couple minutes until I could get her back.

But she blew me away in class! She was sniffy outside the ring, but totally focused inside. The last activity was an open level sequence and I was worried about the tire - we had to go through it 3 times, and it faced out into the open ring so I was sure she would land and keep on running. But she stuck with me and followed cues and tried really really hard. She's maturing into such a great partner.


----------



## taquitos

Just learned crosses this weekend. OMG SO CONFUSING lol! We're still practicing... the dog does fine... I get confused... especially if I'm leading with my left hand. LOL.

Also, I kinda screwed up. I use "around" when I do disc, but I also started with "around" for obstacles now... not sure if it's confusing to Flit or not. Maybe I should just not have a verbal cue at all for disc?


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I had so many issues learning crosses/foundation handling until we starting doing it with the equipment. It didn't make an ounce of sense until then! You'll get it. 

So happy for Hazel! I bet she will make a great agility dog. 

Forgot to mention I missed my last trial due to illness.. and I was signed up for a day and 2 runs the second day. My husband handled Kai on day 2 to at least get some of my money's worth. I SO wish I had some video of that! She Q'd in both runs amazingly. He is doing really good with Ember too. She is finally moving out of puppy class and into big girl class. The weaves are going to start closing up all the way and the contact equipment is going up. They are also starting real sequences. She has no fears and her tolerance of dogs around her are getting much better with maturity. I can't wait to see her trial.


----------



## ireth0

This week we actually... did some of the things the rest of the class did? What?

We were working on different exits from the dogwalk, and I could actually do some of them with Luna! Yay!


----------



## elrohwen

taquitos said:


> Also, I kinda screwed up. I use "around" when I do disc, but I also started with "around" for obstacles now... not sure if it's confusing to Flit or not. Maybe I should just not have a verbal cue at all for disc?


I fell into the same issue. Haha. I use "around" for disc and a right finish in obedience/rally, so I need to pick a new word for going around cones and such. We haven't really done any work with going around objects in a while so I haven't come up with a new cue word yet.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I fell into the same issue. Haha. I use "around" for disc and a right finish in obedience/rally, so I need to pick a new word for going around cones and such. We haven't really done any work with going around objects in a while so I haven't come up with a new cue word yet.


Tight. Tight is what we use to 'wrap' the thing and come back toward the handler. 

Though mostly I don't use or need anything for it. If I stop moving forward or use hard decel body language (or just 'turn' language) the dog wraps back toward me. It's just part of the behavior, and as most things in agility about 95% body language as a cue.


----------



## MrsBoats

Here are some videos from this past weekend's trial...no Q's. My sister in law passed away on Friday and despite me accepting that she was going to pass away a month or two ago, I think it still played with my head some. I just wasn't handling to a level that I was happy with or that I usually do. Nothing was a complete train wreck...we're just going through the typical new to excellent agility growing pains right now. 


Anyway...there's Ex Standard from Saturday (complete with weave pole slaying. LOL No, he didn't break that one, just popped it off the base.)






Ex Jumpers from Sunday:






And then the epic video from the weekend....

"Oh...you having a bad run? Did you die??

That a-frame though!

But, did you die??" 






ROFLMAO!!! Oh No, No, No O!


----------



## elrohwen

I'm sorry to hear about your sister-in-law, MrsBoats :-(


----------



## MrsBoats

elrohwen said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your sister-in-law, MrsBoats :-(


Thank you....it sucks. She was only 37.


----------



## crysania

I kind of feel super lucky that I got to learn all the crosses and basics with the slowest dog on earth. It gave me time to think and get into position.

Seriously slow. This was FAST for her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJNFR2tedDY


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> I kind of feel super lucky that I got to learn all the crosses and basics with the slowest dog on earth. It gave me time to think and get into position.
> 
> Seriously slow. This was FAST for her.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJNFR2tedDY


HA. She's beautiful!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KNBUS2r3Wg - The first run in this video 
and the second run here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJoDkAluji0 are about Kylie's normal speed range. All pretty doable, aided by 'short'. She's also pretty forgiving and honest, bless her. Mistimed crosses, even, though, I just get frustration barking most of the time which isn't a huge deal. 

Molly's really, really hard for me. And mistimed anything means I get bit, and/or my knees taken out. Badly timed front crosses with her in particular are physical pain. We're at a point temperament/behavior wise where she can absolutely start attending lessons and practices and show 'n' goes in prep for going to trial but now I'm scared for whole different reasons.


----------



## crysania

Oh my gosh she is so adorable! I love how she comes off things like "I do not know where to go next" and then once she does she takes off flying.

Dahlia just stopped and stared at me with mistimed crosses. She's such an easy going down. She was difficult to motivate in agility and difficult to get moving and stress meant shutting down so she'd stand at the start line and refuse to move a muscle. So she was not easy in that way but she was super forgiving of my mistakes.

Ben? Not so much. This was my little man on his first sequence. He's faster than Dahlia was even with having no confidence (he's jumping low because we were just starting -- he's now jumping 16 and will hopefully be up to 20 at some point). He's now WAY faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuWbAIRQtqM

But he gets frustrated and frustration means MOUTH. He will leap for his toy when I make a mistake and it doesn't matter if his mouth gets the toy, he'll just bite down. He's drawn blood before and a few times he's grabbed my boobs. Which is super fun let me tell you! He is VERY fast and driven and has so much potential. But it's like I'm relearning the whole thing with him!


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> Oh my gosh she is so adorable! I love how she comes off things like "I do not know where to go next" and then once she does she takes off flying.
> 
> Dahlia just stopped and stared at me with mistimed crosses. She's such an easy going down. She was difficult to motivate in agility and difficult to get moving and stress meant shutting down so she'd stand at the start line and refuse to move a muscle. So she was not easy in that way but she was super forgiving of my mistakes.
> 
> Ben? Not so much. This was my little man on his first sequence. He's faster than Dahlia was even with having no confidence (he's jumping low because we were just starting -- he's now jumping 16 and will hopefully be up to 20 at some point). He's now WAY faster.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuWbAIRQtqM
> 
> But he gets frustrated and frustration means MOUTH. He will leap for his toy when I make a mistake and it doesn't matter if his mouth gets the toy, he'll just bite down. He's drawn blood before and a few times he's grabbed my boobs. Which is super fun let me tell you! He is VERY fast and driven and has so much potential. But it's like I'm relearning the whole thing with him!


My timing with Kylie sometimes needs some help - by which I mean *if* I can get her the information faster we lose a lot of the 'WHAT NOW' but it never really entirely goes away, no matter how early I cue. It's just her going "I'm checking in to be sure...." She was weird for a while with lack of motivation but at this point she's just bouncy and fun out there and having a blast and it's been beautiful to see. Overall her confidence is about 200% of what it was. Still not the same at trials as it is at 'home' turf where we do lessons, but that's pretty normal. 

Molly sounds a lot like Ben, yeah. She will also just go 'screw you, I'm going out there and doing things' when she isn't sure what I want so it's just. I don't even. I suspect we can class both of them in 'go blue or go for highest number of faults accumulated in a single run'.


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> I suspect we can class both of them in 'go blue or go for highest number of faults accumulated in a single run'.


This is going to 100% be Ben. He's either going to tell me to piss off and run around on his own or he's going to be amazing and rock the course. I expect a lot of zoomies at the get go. 

My only concern with Ben is the judges but I'm hoping I can work him through that. He's a little nervous of strangers and can sometimes stop and bark at them. So far he hasn't done that in agility classes so I'm hoping that his having a "job" will mean he won't even notice the judge.


----------



## Lillith

I broke down and purchased a tunnel from Amazon. Next I want to purchase a few jumps from ebay. We've been having 100+ heat indexes here that last until bedtime, pretty much, so we haven't been going on many walks. We've substituted short play sessions with breaks to lay in the shade and drink water in the yard. He seems to get more tired from training and fetch than walks, so that's good. I'm really excited to start doing some little agility things with Ralphie!


----------



## crysania

Training always exhausts my dogs! It's amazing how I can play fetch for a LONG time with Ben but go out and do agility for 10 minutes and he's beat.


----------



## AsherLove

Not sure if I've mentioned it here or not but I switched my 11 yr old mini poodle Stryder, in for my pom, Haku, due to Haku being injured.
Stryder took one 8 week class (of which he missed 1 due to rain and I was moving back home before it went again) when he was 2 years old, and that's it!
Well, here we are 9 YEARS later! We went to class a couple weeks ago (last weeks class was canceled due to flooding), and he did great. He hasn't seen tunnels in 9 years and that's his biggest confusion. He goes in great, but often turns around and comes back out. That's not too shocking though cause you normally start off with a short straight tunnel that slowly gets longer, then you add a bit of bend at a time, and since we didn't do the foundations class (since Haku did it), and didn't do the first couple classes of this agility class, we missed that part. The tunnels have all been in half circles. He goes in then I stand at that end and tell him to 'go' a couple times and you can seen the lightbulb go on and he's like 'OHHH! You want me to go THROUGH the tunnel, and he turns around and runs through it great haha.
Same thing at the last class, jumps? great. Dog walk? great. Tunnel? go in, come back out haha. But he'll get it. Wish I had a tunnel to practice with.
But Stryder is GREAT at GUESSING what I want. It's like rapid fire 'is this what you want?! Is this what you want?! is this what you want?!' Is like SLOW DOWN and LISTEN and I will TELL you what I WANT!! Haha. He can get VERY intense!


----------



## Lillith

AsherLove said:


> Not sure if I've mentioned it here or not but I switched my 11 yr old mini poodle Stryder, in for my pom, Haku, due to Haku being injured.
> Stryder took one 8 week class (of which he missed 1 due to rain and I was moving back home before it went again) when he was 2 years old, and that's it!
> Well, here we are 9 YEARS later! We went to class a couple weeks ago (last weeks class was canceled due to flooding), and he did great. He hasn't seen tunnels in 9 years and that's his biggest confusion. He goes in great, but often turns around and comes back out. That's not too shocking though cause you normally start off with a short straight tunnel that slowly gets longer, then you add a bit of bend at a time, and since we didn't do the foundations class (since Haku did it), and didn't do the first couple classes of this agility class, we missed that part. The tunnels have all been in half circles. He goes in then I stand at that end and tell him to 'go' a couple times and you can seen the lightbulb go on and he's like 'OHHH! You want me to go THROUGH the tunnel, and he turns around and runs through it great haha.
> Same thing at the last class, jumps? great. Dog walk? great. Tunnel? go in, come back out haha. But he'll get it. Wish I had a tunnel to practice with.
> But Stryder is GREAT at GUESSING what I want. It's like rapid fire 'is this what you want?! Is this what you want?! is this what you want?!' Is like SLOW DOWN and LISTEN and I will TELL you what I WANT!! Haha. He can get VERY intense!


The tunnel I bout was about $56 with free shipping from Amazon. It is certainly not competition quality, but I would think it would hold up to a few runs through it a couple times per week. I will see, I guess! It had decent reviews.


----------



## crysania

Lillith said:


> The tunnel I bout was about $56 with free shipping from Amazon. It is certainly not competition quality, but I would think it would hold up to a few runs through it a couple times per week. I will see, I guess! It had decent reviews.


We got a super cheap one from eBay and it's holding up pretty well!


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> We got a super cheap one from eBay and it's holding up pretty well!


Me too. The stakes that it came with didn't work long, and I didn't trust them but with milk hugs of sand it's been fine for over a year now.


----------



## Lillith

Tunnel arrived! It seems to be pretty decent and should hold up to Ralphie. The stakes are long but thin. The carrying case is a little flimsy, but whatever. Ralphie seems to enjoy running through it. I need some more obstacles to make a good course for him to run, though!


----------



## CptJack

I remember when I first started trial-ing and in my head the Novice/Open/Elite divide translated in my head to 'New dogs, normal dogs, really good dogs'. ...I just laugh a lot now. Also agility lesson this morning and it's bound to be an interesting one because I am dead freaking tired.


----------



## CptJack

Okay, seriously, I have got to learn to stay off my dog. She's got distance that's just fine, but my ability to use that distance is non-existent. That's going to be the focus of training at home and lessons for a while. I am just... struggling like crazy and it's not the dog. It's ME. I just can't seem to plot a path for myself that balances not stopping my motion AND keeps me off her butt.


----------



## MrsBoats

crysania said:


> We got a super cheap one from eBay and it's holding up pretty well!


Hey, I see you're from Syracuse! I grew up outside of Corning.  Do you ever run agility at the Wine Country Cluster at Sampson State Park in Romulus,NY?? I'll be there again with Ocean this year.


----------



## crysania

MrsBoats said:


> Hey, I see you're from Syracuse! I grew up outside of Corning.  Do you ever run agility at the Wine Country Cluster at Sampson State Park in Romulus,NY?? I'll be there again with Ocean this year.


I have not, but I didn't compete much at all with my older girl (she just hated trials and shut down, so we ended up just doing classes) and I'm not yet ready to compete with my young boy. But I may end up there by next year! I know a ton of people that go there though!


----------



## taquitos

Bleh. Honeymoon period is over with my agility school. They switched instructors TWICE during a five week program already... not good for Flit who is not so good with strangers. I'm noticing his stress becoming increasingly more overwhelming... we hvea one more class left but I think I just won't go. It's not a good environment for him and last time we were there a person's friend who came with her to the class leaned OVER the fence of the ring to try to pet/say hi to Flit without my permission. He lost it and was barely manageable all class. I think I will be asking specifically for only classes where instructors won't change...

And I think it's in our best interest to halt classes until I have his impulse control fixed.

At least he has his Fenzi classes + we can practice disc at home


----------



## CptJack

I DID A DISTANCE THING!

Okay, it was mostly a straight line, but I stayed on my side of the line and the dog stayed out *and* we did a 'backward' discrimination!


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> I DID A DISTANCE THING!
> 
> Okay, it was mostly a straight line, but I stayed on my side of the line and the dog stayed out *and* we did a 'backward' discrimination!


Straight line or not distance stuff is SUPER hard! Good job for both of you!


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> Straight line or not distance stuff is SUPER hard! Good job for both of you!


Distance is really, really my focus right now and it feels so. freaking. good to be getting somewhere with it. I suspect by the time I get out of novice there I'll be elite or titled in elite everywhere else - I'm actually pretty close to there, now. So, hey, as I get those titles I get my versatility awards? Which will be fun. But mostly it's one of the NATCH classes and I want that stupid award.

And distance reallY IS hard. Probably harder for me than the dog at this stage but JEEZE.


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> Distance is really, really my focus right now and it feels so. freaking. good to be getting somewhere with it. I suspect by the time I get out of novice there I'll be elite or titled in elite everywhere else - I'm actually pretty close to there, now. So, hey, as I get those titles I get my versatility awards? Which will be fun. But mostly it's one of the NATCH classes and I want that stupid award.
> 
> And distance reallY IS hard. Probably harder for me than the dog at this stage but JEEZE.


Is NATCH a title in NADAC? I know they have MAD CRAZY distance skills. I watch some of the videos and I'm just floored. I have never really done distance stuff before because Dahlia was the world's most velcro dog and literally could not be too far from me. We worked so hard just to get SENDS to anything that was more than a foot away. I'm going to have to be able to do some distance stuff with Ben but probably nothing like that! (I don't think we have much for NADAC around here anyway).

And it is SO hard as the human! It requires a lot of communication and trust with the dog!


----------



## crysania

This week at class I had my camera and someone was nice enough to take some pics of Ben for me! I'm so happy with how he's looking!


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> Is NATCH a title in NADAC? I know they have MAD CRAZY distance skills. I watch some of the videos and I'm just floored. I have never really done distance stuff before because Dahlia was the world's most velcro dog and literally could not be too far from me. We worked so hard just to get SENDS to anything that was more than a foot away. I'm going to have to be able to do some distance stuff with Ben but probably nothing like that! (I don't think we have much for NADAC around here anyway).
> 
> And it is SO hard as the human! It requires a lot of communication and trust with the dog!


NATCH is NADAC's Championship Title/MACH or C-ATCh, etc. And yeah, I mean the bonus box stuff isn't required to get it but the 13 Elite Chances Qs are (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxtM4idz1aI - examples of Elite - or there's more on youtube), and it's just. It's HARD. Kylie's got good distance, or at least decent distance as far as sending goes, but trying to control my path and momentum so I've got room to push out without crossing the line and to regulate my speed so I'm not STOPPING (that pulls her in) when I hit the line is just... juggling. And yeah, the trust thing is hard for me. 

I am such a micromanager that I want to be RIGHT THERE, and I have got to just... let it go. 

All that ranting and flailing said, I kind of love it. It's a really fun challenge and absolutely fun to try to work out, even when it's hard as heck.


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> This week at class I had my camera and someone was nice enough to take some pics of Ben for me! I'm so happy with how he's looking!


He looks fantastic! I love the jump picture too. Just all happy dog and fur and legs EVERYWHERE!


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> NATCH is NADAC's Championship Title/MACH or C-ATCh, etc. And yeah, I mean the bonus box stuff isn't required to get it but the 13 Elite Chances Qs are (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxtM4idz1aI - examples of Elite - or there's more on youtube), and it's just. It's HARD. Kylie's got good distance, or at least decent distance as far as sending goes, but trying to control my path and momentum so I've got room to push out without crossing the line and to regulate my speed so I'm not STOPPING (that pulls her in) when I hit the line is just... juggling. And yeah, the trust thing is hard for me.
> 
> I am such a micromanager that I want to be RIGHT THERE, and I have got to just... let it go.
> 
> All that ranting and flailing said, I kind of love it. It's a really fun challenge and absolutely fun to try to work out, even when it's hard as heck.


I am the WORST micromanager so I feel you there. I had to be early on with Dahlia because wherever she came from she was SUPER controlled and so lacked the condidence to do anything unless I stood there like "YES YES DO TAKE THE JUMP PLEASE." And then...I just had a hard time breaking out of it. I'm working so hard at that with Ben and trying to just trust him to do it and we'll go back and work on it if he doesn't. But OMG SO HARD.

I've seen some of those elite ones where people are stuck in a little box or behind a line and can't go any further. Like this crazy one. OMG HOW? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR9J0XtmgdY


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> He looks fantastic! I love the jump picture too. Just all happy dog and fur and legs EVERYWHERE!



Ben is basically all hair at this point. Especially his front legs. The feathers on his front legs are SO LONG. He's going to have to jump higher to clear the jump so his fur doesn't knock the bars. We're only jumping at 16 right now but I think his measured height will end up as 20 so we'll get there eventually. He's 3, so he CAN jump that high but he doesn't yet have the experience to regularly do it.

He is really really enjoying the game. I think he's liking it for the GAME too not just because he gets to get something for it. Dahlia really only did it for ME and because she got to play with me and got to get really good treats. She enjoyed it but not because she found the game itself rewarding.


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> I am the WORST micromanager so I feel you there. I had to be early on with Dahlia because wherever she came from she was SUPER controlled and so lacked the condidence to do anything unless I stood there like "YES YES DO TAKE THE JUMP PLEASE." And then...I just had a hard time breaking out of it. I'm working so hard at that with Ben and trying to just trust him to do it and we'll go back and work on it if he doesn't. But OMG SO HARD.
> 
> I've seen some of those elite ones where people are stuck in a little box or behind a line and can't go any further. Like this crazy one. OMG HOW? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR9J0XtmgdY


Ah, yes. Those bonus boxes. Fortunately, those things are optional. You can try them or not and if you get them you get a 20 point Q. Chances isn't optional if you want the NATCh, but at least it's not THAT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Z-XA4UvfI This is my favorite bonus box. Which I will never, ever do at least with Kylie because Chances is enough for me, thanks very much. LOL. 



crysania said:


> Ben is basically all hair at this point. Especially his front legs. The feathers on his front legs are SO LONG. He's going to have to jump higher to clear the jump so his fur doesn't knock the bars. We're only jumping at 16 right now but I think his measured height will end up as 20 so we'll get there eventually. He's 3, so he CAN jump that high but he doesn't yet have the experience to regularly do it.
> 
> He is really really enjoying the game. I think he's liking it for the GAME too not just because he gets to get something for it. Dahlia really only did it for ME and because she got to play with me and got to get really good treats. She enjoyed it but not because she found the game itself rewarding.


HAhahah. This made me laugh. See also my reply re: Kylie in the other thread. Bug's still very "okay, so you love me and I love you but what-?" Kylie turning on was night and day and handling a dog who wants to be there and play the game is incredible. 

And yeah, he is just SO FLUFFY.


----------



## crysania

Wow that run is seriously amazing. It's like...MAGIC. People who can do that must have such amazing communication with their dogs. <3

Ben is SUPER FLUFFY. Not as fluffy as Dahlia who basically took the Golden Retriever coat and added a BC coat on top of it and so she is like one big gigantic ball of hair. But Ben is close! What's funny is that LAST year at this time he basically almost looked smooth coated.



But we had just adopted him and God knows what crap he was fed. He had this monstrous awful coat when we brought him home and the whole thing shed out. A year later he looks like this!


----------



## Kingfisher

I don't post often here, but Keeper and I have our first trial at the end of this month! Holy crap! That is, assuming his AKC papers get a move on. Any time now....


----------



## CptJack

Kingfisher said:


> I don't post often here, but Keeper and I have our first trial at the end of this month! Holy crap! That is, assuming his AKC papers get a move on. Any time now....


You'll be fine - did you AKC register him with an ILP thing or just their sports program?


----------



## Kingfisher

I did the full registration, since he's ABCA papered.

I wasn't happy about it. But I did it.


----------



## CptJack

Kingfisher said:


> I did the full registration, since he's ABCA papered.
> 
> I wasn't happy about it. But I did it.


I was mostly just asking because I think their sports program pretty much instantly spits out a number you can use and I'm not sure about the timeline for the other :/ Hopefully it'll get moving along in a hurry.


----------



## Kingfisher

I called them today and they received it on the 3rd. They said they take a maximum of 3 weeks to process it, but usually it's sooner. As soon as it's processed they email me an e-certificate so I don't have to wait on the official paperwork. I'm not really too worried, the trial shouldn't fill up that quickly, I just like having my ducks in a row.


----------



## CptJack

Kingfisher said:


> I called them today and they received it on the 3rd. They said they take a maximum of 3 weeks to process it, but usually it's sooner. As soon as it's processed they email me an e-certificate so I don't have to wait on the official paperwork. I'm not really too worried, the trial shouldn't fill up that quickly, I just like having my ducks in a row.


Oh good. Yeah, I hate having to worry about that stuf, too, particularly around a situation I'm already uncertain of.


----------



## Kingfisher

Exactly! Keeper just looks at me like I'm an idiot for stressing.:doh:


----------



## CptJack

Kingfisher said:


> Exactly! Keeper just looks at me like I'm an idiot for stressing.:doh:


Sounds like he's got a good head on his shoulders! You guys really will be fine, it's not nearly as scary as it seems, once you've got one under your belt and know what to expect. 

I think we're just about to the point of doing some show 'n' goes with Molly. Probably the next one that swings around. Just as a test run but I'm thinking she might actually do okay with it, which is bizarre and kind of scary.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kingfisher said:


> Exactly! Keeper just looks at me like I'm an idiot for stressing.:doh:


You guys will do just fine and even if you don't.. you will absolutely get better. Trialing is so exciting but overwhelming at first. I've been to a few trials and I'm still a bit overwhelmed at times. 



CptJack said:


> I think we're just about to the point of doing some show 'n' goes with Molly. Probably the next one that swings around. Just as a test run but I'm thinking she might actually do okay with it, which is bizarre and kind of scary.


That is AWESOME for you and Molly! I really can't wait to hear about how she does in agility. I bet she's a whole lot of dog to handle on the course!

We trialed this weekend. 4/4 Q's. Right now we are having issues with weaving in the trials. I have no idea what the deal is but hopefully we can figure it out. I was very pleased with her runs though. She is starting to actually listen to me in her craziness. Running this dog is so much fun. 

https://youtu.be/Lttww2xSacw

(Well.. here's a video. I can't seem to get it to embed today..)


----------



## CptJack

Wow, you guys look great! She is just beautiful when she jumps and in general - and plain old congratulations!

My plan with Molly is going to take a while  She has all the pieces, or most of them in various stages of solidity, to do the agility. She IS a lot of dog to handle and it can all go really wrong, really dramatically and really fast, but priority one is still 'environment'. I figure we'll start with a show 'n' go this fall, continuing to go to the practice field with her and Kylie this fall and gradually work toward actually practicing with her. Maaaaaaybe enter her into an intro round or two or partial courses at our indoor trial (held where we show 'n' go) at New Year's, and then see where we are. Think about doing our spring trial 'for real'. Maybe. All of this is contingent upon her. Basically it's going to be a lot of back and forth between working the skills and working on the environment. 

But we're getting there, the instructors who know her in real life think she'll manage it and I trust them. Plus she's radically, rapidly, improving which is nice.


----------



## AsherLove

My poor Stryder has really been thrown into the mix of things, since he started off in Basic Athlete instead of Agility Foundations, and missed the first couple of the Basic athlete classes too since he took over Haku's classes when Haku got injured (not at agility). But he is doing so fantastic. He's 11 years old and he took one round of classes when he was 2 years old with a poor instructor.
He's great at the jumps and following my cues, and gets very intense. Doing great on the teeter training.
We hadn't done the A-frame since Stryder started doing classes and suddenly we were adding it to a little mini course. It took him 2 tries to understand it then he had it down! He also never got the foundation tunnel work, he figured out he had to go INto the tunnel, but since the tunnels were always curved so he couldn't see the end, he would turn around and come back out! It would take a couple tries each time for him to go "OH!" and go all the way through. Today, he did it perfectly 3 times in a row!
We finished on the course A-Frame, jump jump jump (in a slight serpentine shape), tunnel, tire. Stryder did it perfectly as soon as the tunnel light switch went on!

Question: How long after you started taking agility classes did you start competing?


----------



## CptJack

AsherLove said:


> Question: How long after you started taking agility classes did you start competing?


Complicated. It really, really depends on how high your expectations are, and your ability to basically write a trial or two off (at least) as a learning experience for you both - and to some degree venue as some are more difficult at low levels than other (CPE Level 1, NADAC intro aren't bad.)

Ignoring our aborted by a family emergency attempt, Kylie started classes in January and completed the three levels of classes that were then offered in July/August of the same year. However, at that point she had poor to no discrimination skills, little confidence and couldn't weave. The intent at that point was to get her weaving over the summer and enter in in October. I chickened out. I started going to practices and picking up private lessons in February/March, entered her at the end of April. So... 15 months? We did the April trial, a May trial, were terrible at both, kept doing lessons through the summer and come September/fall she started killing it and actually had most of the skills she needed to successfully trial. So almost 2 years from Foundations to *good*, dog is ready for it, trial performances. 

Molly's going to be more like 2.5 years before she hits a trial and probably 3+ before I expect to see even remotely decent performance in a trial setting and all I mean by decent is 'whole course, did all the obstacles, confident and happy'. Molly's kind of nervy about the environment. It's going to be a slow introduction for her, in spite of the fact that she's had most agility skills since like... this past December, and < a year of classes. But we've had a lot of behavioral modification work to do and that's eaten us for the past year. It's also way more important to me.

Bug? I'm going to toss into a trial in September. She's had a foundations class, an intermediate class, 2 years apart from each other and minimal work with anything. She's no stress, she's old, she can go play in the ring and get through an intro or novice course or do outside obstacles and have fun and not care. It's all play to her, I have no expectations. Well, except the hope that the trial photographer can get a few pictures of her.

So basically, know your dog and your expectations. If you want or expect a Q, are going to be super-duper nervous or embarrassed if your dog messes up, your dog is sensitive to the environment OR your emotional state, wait. If none of those are true, you're willing to skip obstacles and you don't much care? Go forth as soon as the dog is safe on obstacles.


----------



## CptJack

Also I keep saying 'most of the skills' because I am firmly convinced there is no such thing as a dog having and continuing to have all of them. Something is *always* going straight to heck, or NADAC is changing something that makes me need to teach new skills.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I think we were in classes almost a year and a half (with a few private lessons thrown in) before first going to a practice trial. Our first real trial was CPE level 1 and only 2 runs.. which is basically running the outside obstacles in a straight line and does not include any weaves. Some people like to train even longer before entering trials. I wanted to get Kairi used to the trial environment.. which is only starting to click with her a year later (to be fair.. I'm a pretty casual trialer.. once every 2 months-ish). A lot of people around here start with CPE earlier on because it is very game based and fun. Most people don't touch AKC until they see their dog can handle CPE well. Kairi might see some AKC in a year or two.. when she is in level 4/5 of CPE. 

So.. I guess my answer is also "that depends..".


----------



## CptJack

Training distance with Kylie is so strange, because it's really not training Kylie at all. Kylie is fine with distance - a lot of distance. This is 200% me using her as a... training add? To learn how to do the stuff, myself. It just feels really weird, though Kylie seems to enjoy it since she gets paid out hardcore for putting up with my fumbling. This week we did a PINWHEEL from outside the thing which was more complex than a straight line away from me by a lot. Out, out, in, front cross immediately followed by a switch, and then back out again. Super cool. Took me a couple of times to work out how to get it but. We're getting there!


----------



## ireth0

Luna did her first ever full agility course in class this week! And she did a really good job!

She even did TWO curved tunnels when before she's always needed encouragement from the other end. This time they were whatever. No biggie. 

And she was sooo careful going down the dogwalk to get her contact, it was so cute!

And the jumps were even turned at awkward angles.

So so so proud! She's finally getting the game


----------



## AsherLove

CptJack said:


> Complicated. It really, really depends on how high your expectations are, and your ability to basically write a trial or two off (at least) as a learning experience for you both - and to some degree venue as some are more difficult at low levels than other (CPE Level 1, NADAC intro aren't bad.)
> 
> Ignoring our aborted by a family emergency attempt, Kylie started classes in January and completed the three levels of classes that were then offered in July/August of the same year. However, at that point she had poor to no discrimination skills, little confidence and couldn't weave. The intent at that point was to get her weaving over the summer and enter in in October. I chickened out. I started going to practices and picking up private lessons in February/March, entered her at the end of April. So... 15 months? We did the April trial, a May trial, were terrible at both, kept doing lessons through the summer and come September/fall she started killing it and actually had most of the skills she needed to successfully trial. So almost 2 years from Foundations to *good*, dog is ready for it, trial performances.
> 
> Molly's going to be more like 2.5 years before she hits a trial and probably 3+ before I expect to see even remotely decent performance in a trial setting and all I mean by decent is 'whole course, did all the obstacles, confident and happy'. Molly's kind of nervy about the environment. It's going to be a slow introduction for her, in spite of the fact that she's had most agility skills since like... this past December, and < a year of classes. But we've had a lot of behavioral modification work to do and that's eaten us for the past year. It's also way more important to me.
> 
> Bug? I'm going to toss into a trial in September. She's had a foundations class, an intermediate class, 2 years apart from each other and minimal work with anything. She's no stress, she's old, she can go play in the ring and get through an intro or novice course or do outside obstacles and have fun and not care. It's all play to her, I have no expectations. Well, except the hope that the trial photographer can get a few pictures of her.
> 
> So basically, know your dog and your expectations. If you want or expect a Q, are going to be super-duper nervous or embarrassed if your dog messes up, your dog is sensitive to the environment OR your emotional state, wait. If none of those are true, you're willing to skip obstacles and you don't much care? Go forth as soon as the dog is safe on obstacles.


Thanks for your reply. I had watched a few jumper rounds at the last dog show and thought 'hmm, I think Stryder could almost do this' except for the weave poles (and at that time he needed to 'get' the tunnel a bit better). We certainly wouldn't be the best, and we'd probably mess up at least once, but he's actually only 4 single classes in to agility (other than the class he took 9 years ago) haha. He finds jumping fairly easy and listens fairly well at class (he gets a bit more 'guess-y' at home) Of course I'm sure it's a lot different in a new environment with new sights and sounds!


----------



## elrohwen

I did 6 months of classes, took a break of 2 years, and then did 6 months of private lessons with my older dog. Still nowhere near being able to trial. Not even close. He just struggles with engagement and confidence issues and trials are extremely hard for him. I'll be shocked if we trial because I'm not going to push him.

My young dog has been in private lessons and classes from 6 months through 16 months. She'll probably be ready to trial at 2 years old. I won't enter trials until we're really really solid, because I know she can be excellent. And I'm gun shy about pushing to trial too soon.


----------



## kadylady

We took a big agility break after CPE Nationals and finally trialed again 2 weekends ago. I wasn't quite sure how the girls would do after the break, Zoey hasn't done anything agility since nationals and Skye has done a few classes but hasn't trialed since the first week in May. And we were running outside, Skye's first outside trial and it was AKC. Zoey picked up our 2nd Excellent Preferred Standard Q on Saturday and Skye picked up her 2nd Open JWW Q and our first Novice Standard Q! Finally a Novice Standard Q!! Her teeter is still a work in progress but the fact that she did all 3 teeters over the weekend was a huge step!! Her Open JWW run was just awesome. Zoey made me work really hard as usual but she ran very happy. Sunday she refused to weave so had to carry her out, but overall I was very happy with how she ran after a break. Our next trial probably won't be until late September and it will be CPE, then I'm hoping to do a few more CPE trials before the end of the year, working towards Zoey's C-ATCH and getting Skye more comfortable on the teeter in trials. Here's some video. (which won't embed for some reason)  

Zoey Excellent Preferred Standard Q on Saturday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtbq6CbYQp8

Skye's Open JWW Q and Novice Standard Q 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsMUqt7PLns


----------



## kadylady

On the topic of how long after started classes do you start showing, I'm going to echo "depends." Very much depends on the dog and the handler. Having started 2 dogs, taken, assisted and teaching classes, it very much depends.

Zoey was my first competition dog, first agility dog. We started classes in Sept of 2012 at 1 year old and our first competition was CPE Level 1 in August of 2013 just before her 2nd birthday. Our first AKC competition was April of 2013. So a year of classes for CPE and a year and a half for AKC. Zoey is my super soft, super environmentally stressed dog, so while classes were easy for her, we had a lot of extra work to do to get her comfortable in the ring at trials. I didn't plan on competing with Zoey when I got her as a puppy at 5 months old so she didn't get any special "prep work" for one day competing in sports.

Skye is my second competition dog and when I got her at 8 weeks old I knew I wanted to compete with her. So at 4 months old she started coming to agility trials and getting socialized to that environment. She was doing flatwork handling exercises and puppy agility stuff from a very young age. Also, being my second agility dog I had some experience under my belt as well. She officially started agility classes at a year old (Sept of 2015) and her first CPE trial was a day after her 15 month birthday in December 2015. Her first AKC trial was Feb 2016. So she started trialing much faster than Zoey, but she had so much extra work and exposure to trial environments in the first year of her life that Zoey didn't have and that can make a big difference. She had also done a disc competition on her first birthday so again, exposure to that type of environment. Skye has never really been phased by the trial environment, she has other issues we are working on (ahem teeter...which acutally forced a 3 month break in trialing) and we have other challenges to conquer that Zoey doesn't have, but that's why it depends so much on both the dog and the handler.

In taking and teaching classes, I've see teams that can move into the competition ring quickly and be successful and others that are going to take a bit longer before being able to start trialing, and it can be all sorts of reasons...dog reasons, handler reasons, combination.


----------



## MrsBoats

AsherLove said:


> Question: How long after you started taking agility classes did you start competing?


I agree with the others....that depends on a lot of different factors. Those factors are things like your experience, your goals, your dog's temperament/maturity level, your classes and what they focus on, the instructor, etc. 

Lars was my first agility dog....I started him at 6 months old and he started competing at 2 months shy of him turning 3 years old. I couldn't find a really good foundation class when he was younger and I didn't know any better. I spent a lot of time filling in gaps of things we should have known before we started to show. 

Ocean is my second agility dog...I started him in puppy agility foundation stuff at home when he was a wee pup, got him into an actual class at 6 months old and he was competing in AKC at 15 months old and USDAA at 18 months old.


----------



## AsherLove

Stryder has now had 6 hours of agility classes.
This video is from today's class


----------



## CptJack

AsherLove said:


> Stryder has now had 6 hours of agility classes.
> This video is from today's class


He looks INCREDIBLE, and is clearly having so much fun it just makes me smile!

Random PSA to everyone: If you have a dog with furry feet/slippers, keep an eye on it and keep those suckers trimmed. I got lazy with Kylie's this summer and we had a couple of weird slips that made me notice and then to get off my butt and fix it. Paw pads grip. Fur does not.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, where we are re: Training - 

I am trying to proof weaves enough for Kylie to let me rear cross her while she's in the weaves. To do this I need to be able to send her ahead to the weaves, straight on. Interestingly I can send her from, oh, 25 feet laterally, she'll weave TOWARD me from huge distances - but won't send forward to them. Training holes are fun y'all. 

In other news, I am finally feeling less insanely awkward doing blind crosses with Kylie. Had a bit of a revelation about them this morning so that I am doing more than what I'm told and have some hope of figuring out when/where/how to make them work. Trial in a few weeks. I'm looking forward to it. A lot.


----------



## Lillith

Ralphie and I finally got into a Beginning Agility class! We start a week from tomorrow! He's been through 3 obedience classes so far, so I hope he has enough skills to do it. I think he'll be fine, though, he seems to really enjoy the obstacles and his focus has been superb when we did a few obstacles in his Jump Start obedience class. I have a tunnel that I can set up in our backyard, and we've been playing with that for the last month or so. I send him threw and then throw a toy as he bursts out of the end, and we've been practicing not going through the tunnel when I tell him to do something else, lol!


----------



## stoatfan

I've been lurking in this thread for a couple weeks now. I did like, one agility class with my family's dog in middle school then had a few jumps and a tunnel in the backyard for Willow when I still lived with my parents... so it's been a while. Used to do the occasional horse show with jumping and EQ courses so I'm familiar with the trial jitters!

I'm debating whether to do a class with Willow or puppy agility with Newt. I'm worried that Willow is too reactive for classes here... there's a facility near me that looks pretty good but they say no reactive dogs in the agility class. She's very chill and focused unless another dog comes up to her and sniffs for longer than a few seconds, then there are faces and snapping. I guess the only thing I can do is call and ask. At eight years old and with the amount of work we've put in already I doubt that she has much improvement in her behaviorally. The other thing is I feel like I can either do agility, like really do it, or lease a horse with time/finances right now. Not both. That being said, I already have the dogs and horses are super far away from where we live... so.

Are any of you guys in the Seattle area or know of good trainers in the vicinity?


----------



## elrohwen

stoatfan said:


> I've been lurking in this thread for a couple weeks now. I did like, one agility class with my family's dog in middle school then had a few jumps and a tunnel in the backyard for Willow when I still lived with my parents... so it's been a while. Used to do the occasional horse show with jumping and EQ courses so I'm familiar with the trial jitters!
> 
> I'm debating whether to do a class with Willow or puppy agility with Newt. I'm worried that Willow is too reactive for classes here... there's a facility near me that looks pretty good but they say no reactive dogs in the agility class. She's very chill and focused unless another dog comes up to her and sniffs for longer than a few seconds, then there are faces and snapping. I guess the only thing I can do is call and ask. At eight years old and with the amount of work we've put in already I doubt that she has much improvement in her behaviorally. The other thing is I feel like I can either do agility, like really do it, or lease a horse with time/finances right now. Not both. That being said, I already have the dogs and horses are super far away from where we live... so.
> 
> Are any of you guys in the Seattle area or know of good trainers in the vicinity?


I wouldn't call that reactivity at all. Just a dog who likes her personal space. That will be fine in agility and nobody should be coming up and sniffing her anyway if the class is well run. Give it a shot!


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I wouldn't call that reactivity at all. Just a dog who likes her personal space. That will be fine in agility and nobody should be coming up and sniffing her anyway if the class is well run. Give it a shot!


Agreed with this. 

Do call and check up on how classes are run to make sure there's separation and it's not likely for her to end up with a dog in her face for everyone's safety,but IMO that's not a behavioral issue, that's just a dog.


----------



## gingerkid

I built my first agility jump this weekend. (I am woman, hear my power tools; I also fixed the toilet). I only built one, just to make sure that it would work like I think it will - which it did. Last night I got the supplies to make 3 more and that'll be my evening project today, along with figuring out what I already have that I need to make a small, basic A-frame for practicing contacts.

And just to make it relevant.... Ida did fantastic last week in class, she ran the entire course twice with 10" jumps and minimal wander-moments. She did blow half her contacts, but the instructors gave me some ideas for working on them; mainly they pointed out that I don't have to have to build a full-sized A-frame, a half-size one will work just as well for practice.


----------



## ireth0

gingerkid said:


> I built my first agility jump this weekend. (I am woman, hear my power tools; I also fixed the toilet). I only built one, just to make sure that it would work like I think it will - which it did. Last night I got the supplies to make 3 more and that'll be my evening project today, along with figuring out what I already have that I need to make a small, basic A-frame for practicing contacts.
> 
> And just to make it relevant.... Ida did fantastic last week in class, she ran the entire course twice with 10" jumps and minimal wander-moments. She did blow half her contacts, but the instructors gave me some ideas for working on them; mainly they pointed out that I don't have to have to build a full-sized A-frame, a half-size one will work just as well for practice.


Good job!

We built an agility jump with scrap wood we had from renovations and an old closet rod. 

In class this week we worked on wrapping a jump and different hand cues for that and varying it up with different directions, sometimes wrapping/sometimes not, etc.


----------



## stoatfan

Thanks everyone! That's reassuring. Once Newt is finished his puppy kindergarten I'll look into agility for Will.


----------



## agility.training

I do agility with one of my dogs (the other one's hips are too bad for agility), and he's doing really well. I've built some equipment, and have more to build yet. Sometimes we just do drills, and sometimes we do practice courses. When we do practice courses, he responds amazing when I have a couple pieces of his food, or his ball, in my hand. I'm not luring him up to each obstacle with it, its simply in my hand, and completely, (or almost completely when using his ball) concealed. He goes quickly and responds to all my commands. But whenever I don't have a ball or a piece of his food he is slower, doesn't respond to my commands well, and doesn't pay as much attention. He still gets his ball or food AFTER he finishes the course, but he just doesn't do well without it in my hand. What would be the easiest way to transition to not having it with me, but at the end of the course, and getting him to listen and respond as well?


----------



## CptJack

I would break the course up with more stops for going back to reward. Ie: Don't jump to the full course and reward after. Ask him to do... three obstacles (or two, or 1) and then go get his ball or food. Progress from there, but you probably need to build up to doing bunches of obstacles before he gets a pay out.


----------



## ireth0

Something we sometimes do in class is that the instructor has the toy/ball/etc (hidden of course) and stands at the end of the course. So she throws the toy at the end while the handler runs the dog.


----------



## MrsBoats

CptJack said:


> I would break the course up with more stops for going back to reward. Ie: Don't jump to the full course and reward after. Ask him to do... three obstacles (or two, or 1) and then go get his ball or food. Progress from there, but you probably need to build up to doing bunches of obstacles before he gets a pay out.


^^^^ This. 

I very rarely work full courses in my own training. I do sequences and sometimes short sequences of 2 - 3 obstacles. My instructor always says it better to do fewer obstacles really well than a full course that was just okay.


----------



## CptJack

MrsBoats said:


> ^^^^ This.
> 
> I very rarely work full courses in my own training. I do sequences and sometimes short sequences of 2 - 3 obstacles. My instructor always says it better to do fewer obstacles really well than a full course that was just okay.


Yeah. Both for skill building and for building value and reward history in the exercises, it's just smarter. Even at my private lessons it's mostly 4-5-6 obstacles (just HARD ones, LOL). Outside actual trials I do very, very, few full courses. Maybe, maybe 1 a week as we lead up to a trial, at most, and even then I STILL stop and reward randomly for things like contacts or difficult handling or nice moments before carrying on. 

The only time my dog sees a whole course without any chance of reward is, yeah, a trial. That's even more true as I've moved up to 20-22-24+ obstacle courses, instead of the shorter Novice ones. That is a REALLY long behavioral chain, particularly when you include the start line sit and stay, EVERY direction change, side change, contact behaviors and end of run recall/jump up/whatever as well as just doing the obstacles. 

Ask a dog to do that much crap too often with no rewards breaking it up - Well, *I* at least would have an issue.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our local Agility club AAC trial is this weekend. We had a fun Tunnellers course tonight. Never have had them in AAC trials before.

Unfortunately the very first dog to go through peed coming out of the second tunnel. They mopped it up out of the end of the tunnel and cleaned up the ground but several dogs stopped to sniff and Lucy was one of them. She moved on when I called her and did the run perfectly but lost out on time. They had a class for small dogs (the ones who jump 10" or less) and one for the bigger dogs.

My sister's Rat Terrier ran second in our group, a Toller won the class. Quite a difference in their size. Lots of fun and a good warm-up for the weekend. Lucy is in three classes tomorrow and two on Sunday. She has two Q's in Starter Jumpers but as they were both with the same judge, have to get one more Q to move up to Advanced. She also has a Q in Snooker so needs one more to move up.


----------



## ireth0

A couple of our agility runs from class this weekend!












I was very proud! This was our first time seeing a tunnel curved in the opposite direction, and the first time seeing the teeter.


----------



## gingerkid

We were working on sending to obstacles last night. We haven't done much work on "outs" (which I am calling "there" because it's more natural for me and we already use "out" for other things).


----------



## Lillith

Ralphie and I had our first agility class tonight! It was really fun. I found that I also have to run, therefore I get as tired as the dog although the dog is running circles around me. Literally. He did really well with staying near me and focused despite not being on a leash, but he seems to just live for this stuff. He loves it. He just FLIES over the jumps and through the tunnels. He's so enthusiastic he overshoots and nearly runs into the other obstacles. Or the wall. He's also obsessed with the instructor. He think she is the dispenser of the yummiest treats around, lol.

By the end of the class he was TIRED. He wasn't so crazy nuts to run over the obstacles. I know he's still pooped because he is barking at little everyday noises he usually pays no mind to, but he refuses to just take a nap, lol. He's just droopy but he's still shoving toys in our faces haha.


----------



## CptJack

WE DID IT. 

It has taken two weeks and a lot of confusion but I can rear cross while Kylie is in the weaves without pulling her out of them!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Lucy got a Q in Starters Standard and ran well in her other classes, I just goofed up. One more trial on the 10th and 11th and we can concentrate on training twice a week at the arena till our last trial for this year in November. We only pay $100 a year and can use the arena with all the equipment for an hour on Wednesdays and two hours on Saturdays. As there are only usually three of us (sometimes four on Sat) we gets lots of practice in, no instructor but lots of training tips from each other.

Lucy is my Shih Tzu x Maltese. She is the only one I am training right now.


----------



## CptJack

I have a trial weekend after next. Bug's got her intro jumper's run, Kylie's got intro regular to get out zoomies and then all games both days (jumpers, chances, t'n' G, tunnelers, weavers). We'll see how it goes. 

And I think if I don't learn to stay off my dog's behind, my agility instructor is going to strangle me. Or put me on a leash. Or something. Kylie has really good distance skills and I can respect a line but without a physical line there to show me where to be, I just wind up WAY too far into things.


----------



## CptJack

Annnd we have 12 weaves on both sides

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKmVDkCP_aA

I think all that is left with Molly is some jumping work and actually getting contact/tunnel discriminations. I mean she's still inexperienced green dog but the skills, they are there individually.


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel and I have really settled into our agility class. We moved outdoors when the facility burnt down and still struggle a little bit with distraction, but 90% of the time she's awesome. Every week I watch her get faster and faster, and she's started to really put it all together. I don't have to point out every jump and baby her, and now she looks for the next logical obstacle while still paying attention to where I am (mostly). She still struggles a lot with collection and wants to run straight out after each obstacle, but we can work on that at home when we get our new house. Contacts are hit or miss too - the majority of the time she nails them, but then last week she completely forgot what she was supposed to be doing. She's only been doing stopped contacts for a few months so I'm not worried yet. We started weave training last week, so we need to keep up with that at home.

Overall I'm just super super happy with her. She's wicked fast, and she's really trying to be a partner instead of flinging herself around the course. lol We're doing Open level sequences most weeks and I'm seeing constant improvement in both of us. A few weeks ago we were doing a couple obstacles at a time and awkwardly trying to put it together, and then last week we did an awesome sequence with a rear cross that she nailed each time.

And I really really love how slow and in depth the class goes. We always have a syllabus, I feel like each class logically builds off of the previous class and it's never like "oh, what should we work on this week ... " like I've seen other places we train. We spent probably 2 months working on just front crosses in various ways, instead of trying them once and being expected to do them every time (though pretty much nobody in class has had an issue with them). It's just so well set up to create high level competition dogs instead of doing agility for fun. I'll spend 4 years training before we trial if it means we can kill it when we finally do trial.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Hazel and I have really settled into our agility class. We moved outdoors when the facility burnt down and still struggle a little bit with distraction, but 90% of the time she's awesome. Every week I watch her get faster and faster, and she's started to really put it all together. I don't have to point out every jump and baby her, and now she looks for the next logical obstacle while still paying attention to where I am (mostly). She still struggles a lot with collection and wants to run straight out after each obstacle, but we can work on that at home when we get our new house. Contacts are hit or miss too - the majority of the time she nails them, but then last week she completely forgot what she was supposed to be doing. She's only been doing stopped contacts for a few months so I'm not worried yet. We started weave training last week, so we need to keep up with that at home.
> 
> Overall I'm just super super happy with her. She's wicked fast, and she's really trying to be a partner instead of flinging herself around the course. lol We're doing Open level sequences most weeks and I'm seeing constant improvement in both of us. A few weeks ago we were doing a couple obstacles at a time and awkwardly trying to put it together, and then last week we did an awesome sequence with a rear cross that she nailed each time.
> 
> And I really really love how slow and in depth the class goes. We always have a syllabus, I feel like each class logically builds off of the previous class and it's never like "oh, what should we work on this week ... " like I've seen other places we train. We spent probably 2 months working on just front crosses in various ways, instead of trying them once and being expected to do them every time (though pretty much nobody in class has had an issue with them). It's just so well set up to create high level competition dogs instead of doing agility for fun. I'll spend 4 years training before we trial if it means we can kill it when we finally do trial.


So.... when you trialing, then?


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> So.... when you trialing, then?


Haha. No idea really. Spring I guess? Our instructor has said that this winter/spring will work for most of us and we've started doing a lot more course analysis as homework. And lots of exercises where you see a course layout and then decide which short sequences you'd do with your dog at a run through to practice stuff you know.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Haha. No idea really. Spring I guess? Our instructor has said that this winter/spring will work for most of us and we've started doing a lot more course analysis as homework. And lots of exercises where you see a course layout and then decide which short sequences you'd do with your dog at a run through to practice stuff you know.


Maybe the girls will start close to the same time! I mean probably accidentally, but maybe!


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Maybe the girls will start close to the same time! I mean probably accidentally, but maybe!


That would be awesome! I'm so happy that you're close to trialing with Molly. I knew it would come some day  

I need to get some video of us in class. It's getting dark so early but we run sequences at the beginning of class so hopefully the video quality won't be terrible


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> That would be awesome! I'm so happy that you're close to trialing with Molly. I knew it would come some day
> 
> I need to get some video of us in class. It's getting dark so early but we run sequences at the beginning of class so hopefully the video quality won't be terrible


Please, please get video. Even if it's terrible if you can see the handler, dog and obstacles you're pretty good to go. I wanna see!

I still have a few concerns about Molly in a trial setting, but they're now down to mostly things like the length of the day and people in the ring with us. Those can be overcome. And I might actually take our Jan. trial that's indoors, and just have her come in at the end of the day and run like. Tunnelers. As a test drive. I really would like a show 'n' go or a practice or something to happen soon though so I can have a safer test.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Please, please get video. Even if it's terrible if you can see the handler, dog and obstacles you're pretty good to go. I wanna see!
> 
> I still have a few concerns about Molly in a trial setting, but they're now down to mostly things like the length of the day and people in the ring with us. Those can be overcome. And I might actually take our Jan. trial that's indoors, and just have her come in at the end of the day and run like. Tunnelers. As a test drive. I really would like a show 'n' go or a practice or something to happen soon though so I can have a safer test.


I think UKI and USDAA allow training in the ring at intro levels so we'll probably start there. Though I really don't have any specific worries about Hazel. She is so relaxed in busy public places. As long as I can get and keep her focus we'll be ok. And I see her drive for agility specifically increasing with every class even though she's been doing it for a year. 

I'll hand my phone over to someone this week for video! I'm sad I didn't last week because our rear cross was epic. She missed the dog walk and did a big loop around it going "whee!!" but the rest of the course was awesome. And I didn't even think she understood rear crosses yet.


----------



## CptJack

Oh. Hey. Intro. I forgot that was a thing that exists. I'm not TOO worried about ring crew. They sat there. I have some concerns about the judge because they tend to approach you (and Molly's gotten so good but that might still be an issue) . Leash runner I can just tell to drop the leash on the ground and move off. Or even have a known friend leash run, as an option. 

I am just... so ready to get out there with her now, and see where we are when it comes to putting what she knows together. Something about 12 off side weaves being solid now just has me chomping at the bit. Our first trials are probably still going to be disasters or throw aways as it were, with me getting in and out of the ring with her happy as the only go, but I WANT TO PLAY. 

Hazel's an awesome, awesome, dog. All around. I'm really glad she's turned out so awesomely for you - and in general.


----------



## ireth0

This week we had a 'lecture' section on gamblers and the rules and how to approach it and etc, then we did a mini gamblers course as an example.

Super fun! Luna was her speediest yet!


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Hazel's an awesome, awesome, dog. All around. I'm really glad she's turned out so awesomely for you - and in general.


She's still a giant pain in the ass sometimes. She drives my parents crazy because she doesn't have an off switch in the house and barks at anything and nothing. She barks at dogs in the neighborhood and often people walking past. But away from home she's awesome and can fit in and relax just about anywhere, and she has so much focus and desire to work. She's a weird one. Watson, on the other hand, is so easy at home but kind of a spaz in public.


----------



## CptJack

...Molly and Watson, Hazel and Kylie, man. Kylie's a pain at home, Molly's a doll. In public? Reverse that. 

That said, practices starting this week, show and go early next month. I'm *scared*, but. We're doing the thing! Also still meeting up with other friends a couple of times a week, which means basically I'm back in the land of 4 days a week on weeks there *aren't* trials. At least this time Molly's getting to participate in most of it.

ETA: Also realized Bug has to come to these practices, too. LOL, excitement, ahoy


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have quit trying to trial Kris after her not doing anything at the trial in the spring. Last year at the couple of trials I took her to, she was good, followed my directions and has trained really well this last winter. The trial in the spring, she paid no attention to me, ran around the jumps and completely ignored me. She is still training fine in the arena, does all the equipment when asked so do not quite know what to do. It was so unexpected at the trial. She did not try to leave the ring, just acted like she did not know what she was supposed to be doing.

There is only one trial next weekend that we are camping at so I just have Lucy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese, entered in, then one in November that we stay at a Motel in. Just cannot decide if it is worth going on with her, she can be so good, it is hard to give up. She is four years old in December and due to come circumstances she has only trialed twice at the end of last year, and once this year so maybe I am just giving up too soon.


----------



## elrohwen

Kyllobernese said:


> I have quit trying to trial Kris after her not doing anything at the trial in the spring. Last year at the couple of trials I took her to, she was good, followed my directions and has trained really well this last winter. The trial in the spring, she paid no attention to me, ran around the jumps and completely ignored me. She is still training fine in the arena, does all the equipment when asked so do not quite know what to do. It was so unexpected at the trial. She did not try to leave the ring, just acted like she did not know what she was supposed to be doing.
> 
> There is only one trial next weekend that we are camping at so I just have Lucy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese, entered in, then one in November that we stay at a Motel in. Just cannot decide if it is worth going on with her, she can be so good, it is hard to give up. She is four years old in December and due to come circumstances she has only trialed twice at the end of last year, and once this year so maybe I am just giving up too soon.


Do you have any trials where you can use your time to train in the ring? Maybe that will help bridge the gap for her between training and trialing.

Or do you think she finds the environment in general stressful?


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> Do you have any trials where you can use your time to train in the ring? Maybe that will help bridge the gap for her between training and trialing.
> 
> Or do you think she finds the environment in general stressful?


Or somewhere you can mimic the rings she'll trial in (like if they're mostly indoors or outdoors)? Do you guys have show 'n' goes ever? Or barring that, maybe just try to get her into a situation where she does one obstacle at the trial and get her OUT to reward her.


----------



## MrsBoats

What a great weekend this was for O and I with agility! No Qs to show for it but, I'm finally no longer fearing Ocean's speed and handling like he needs me to. I feel like he and I have finally arrived! This was our Excellent Standard run from Saturday that we were able to get on video. One bar down and this was a very close but no cigar sort of run. 






We actually didn't get into the trial on Sunday because they maxed out the number of runs entered. But this Time to Beat from yesterday run was so awesome!! I got to let O's V12 open up and really drive him like he should. I don't even care about that bar before the weaves...lots of dogs took that one down. This 27 seconds run was amazing. The Border Collies where clocking in at 26 and 25 seconds...so my little rottweiler was right there with them in the speed department. 






Our Ex standard run was equally as awesome but I wasn't able to get that on video...he dropped the last bar. Again, a bar a lot of dogs took down. That run I so wished I could have gotten on video. 

This was another awesome NQ in Excellent Jumpers with Weaves from yesterday. I pushed my luck with a 3nd blind cross of the day after that first red tunnel ...and O and I almost collided. Lots of the big, fast dogs almost killed their owners there too. LOL Bar 11 that came down was another bar that got a lot of the big, fast dogs. So...these are those reasonable mistakes I will mention on these NQs. 






O only gets a couple of days off and we're back to USDAA again this Friday!!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I'm so jealous of all of you trialing people! I can't get to another trial until Nov, then another in Dec hopefully. We have a conformation show this weekend and lure coursing in October. I can only do about one trial type weekend a month for a little while. I've just been too darn busy this Summer. Ember is kind of all over the place right now. Sometimes she is awesome and other times she has no focus. She has been regressing to puppy brain in general the past few months.. and I cannot wait until she grows up a little. 

O looks awesome! Those weaves are gonna fly off any moment!


----------



## MrsBoats

I'm lucky in New England....there is so much agility and so many agility trials. Every weekend you pretty much have your choice of what venue you want to play in. Dog sports are huge in this area.

Ha....Ocean and the weave poles! He hasn't broken one in a while....he's probably due soon. 










Here's O with one of his trophies from Ex JWW...and he Qed even with the broken pole!! LOL


----------



## CptJack

We don't really trial all that often, because we don't travel to trial. That means we do about 8 trials a year. They end up clustered so there are a couple of periods in spring and fall where we have 3 in about 6 weeks, and then we have one each for summer and winter. I'd LIKE to do more, but I just don't have the time, money, or lifestyle right now to go haring off for a weekend away to do it - other pets, kids, etc.


----------



## MrsBoats

For me, I'm a vendor at 90% of the agility trials I hit.  So, I'm also working all of those trials...and my entries are business write offs. **grin**


----------



## CptJack

Good news! Next year/trial season my kid will actually be 18. 

At that point more travel may happen, as he'll be living at home a couple of more years and we can pay HIM to take care of the house and other animals  That said, I'm not sure I have enough dog to do every weekend, either. It'd just be nice to add a couple/few more into the rota. I get a little cranky when it's too long off at a go.


----------



## CptJack

That said, relatively limited trialing is absolutely a big factor in me NOT hanging around at levels once I have the base title.


----------



## Ash&Bailey

MrsBoats said:


> What a great weekend this was for O and I with agility! No Qs to show for it but, I'm finally no longer fearing Ocean's speed and handling like he needs me to. I feel like he and I have finally arrived! This was our Excellent Standard run from Saturday that we were able to get on video. One bar down and this was a very close but no cigar sort of run.
> 
> We actually didn't get into the trial on Sunday because they maxed out the number of runs entered. But this Time to Beat from yesterday run was so awesome!! I got to let O's V12 open up and really drive him like he should. I don't even care about that bar before the weaves...lots of dogs took that one down. This 27 seconds run was amazing. The Border Collies where clocking in at 26 and 25 seconds...so my little rottweiler was right there with them in the speed department.
> 
> Our Ex standard run was equally as awesome but I wasn't able to get that on video...he dropped the last bar. Again, a bar a lot of dogs took down. That run I so wished I could have gotten on video.
> 
> This was another awesome NQ in Excellent Jumpers with Weaves from yesterday. I pushed my luck with a 3nd blind cross of the day after that first red tunnel ...and O and I almost collided. Lots of the big, fast dogs almost killed their owners there too. LOL Bar 11 that came down was another bar that got a lot of the big, fast dogs. So...these are those reasonable mistakes I will mention on these NQs.
> 
> O only gets a couple of days off and we're back to USDAA again this Friday!!


I absolutely love watching you working Ocean and/or Lars. You do an excellent job with them and they are both really cool dogs. Those runs were awesome.


----------



## Ash&Bailey

I was so impressed with Mr B on Saturday's class. He ran his agility offleash with 2 other dogs stood next to the course without a fence and he ignored them and got on with his agility and he also didn't go off to sniff. He also sat right next to other dogs and ignored them whilst waiting his turn.

A couple of years ago, we had huge problems with him being *very* reactive to other dogs and he also got pretty stressed out, so went off to sniff. It's took tons of work but this time last year, I would never have even dreamed of having him offleash whilst running agility, so close to other dogs without a barrier. 

I mean, he's still not ready to trial, but realistically the only thing holding us back from trialling, is the fact that I've not really worked him anywhere other than the yard and club and I know if I tried to trial him, he'd loose his mind and we'd end up back where we started. I'm planning on tons of 1-1 lessons with various trainers, hiring out various venues, doing lots of work in public and attending some small "training trials" this winter. As the agility season starts again, I'm planning on taking him along to trials, without being entered, just to get him okay with the trial environment and we'll see how we progress from there.

I'm super duper pleased with him


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I don't travel far for trials either. My max is about an hour and a half at the moment since I travel myself in a small car. I only do CPE right now and there are 2 trial places within that time. Between the 2 I could probably trial once a month, or every other but I can't stop spending my money on other sports. -_-

When we finally move in a couple years I should be able to trial and travel more.

Also.. bye bye chute! Of course.. I've never actually had one in a trial yet.


----------



## Kyllobernese

There won't be a chance to go to any trials with Kris till next year, then I could possibly enter her FEO, so just go in, do a couple of obstacles and come back out. The three times she has been in trials, they have all been outside trials which all ours are except one indoor in November, but most of her training is indoors. Our Agility season is pretty well over except for this coming weekend and the trial in November.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> There won't be a chance to go to any trials with Kris till next year, then I could possibly enter her FEO, so just go in, do a couple of obstacles and come back out. The three times she has been in trials, they have all been outside trials which all ours are except one indoor in November, but most of her training is indoors. Our Agility season is pretty well over except for this coming weekend and the trial in November.


I would pretty much do that. Do some work this winter to keep her in the game and then start working on the FEO stuff. It really can't hurt anything.


----------



## CptJack

So. Yeah. 

Molly went to agility practice. She did agility. First time she's done more than four obstacles at once. It was a wild ride, but she didn't do badly. A couple of extra jumps, but not bad and did the whole jumpers course. Didn't do the whole T'n'G course that was set, but some bits and pieces here and there. Remembered tunnels, barrels and the dog walk. Did a decent set of weaves a couple of times. Leapt the A-frame from about one step over from the apex and fell on her face and scared the crap out of me, so that was mostly what we worked on there. 

But. She did it. 

She really, really did it. 

Now I just have to figure out how the HECK to handle this dog!


----------



## ireth0

Yay! Good job Molly!


----------



## elrohwen

Yay Molly!


----------



## CptJack

ireth0 said:


> Yay! Good job Molly!





elrohwen said:


> Yay Molly!


Thanks! I probably should have said 'since we finished classes' for the longer sequences, but it was still 15 obstacles in a row which is pretty big. We'll see what I can get accomplished with her at practices, and we have a show 'n' go first of next month and an offer to use a friends equipment, so maybe we'll get things settled. I'm so excited and happy.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie has an agility lesson tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it - don't know what it's going to be, but it'll be with Kylie and may make me feel quasi-competent. 

I'm going to ask my husband to get some video of Molly doing some part of a course with me on Thursday. I really cannot overstate how radically different she is than Kylie or how just... fast and intense she is. I had a friend who said running Molly would be like learning a whole new game and she's already right. Molly has some skills we're working on now (calling off obstacles in front of her, contact/tunnel discriminations), but mostly it's honestly a matter of her speed now that things are coming together. I feel like everyone does this thing where they're awed by the dog's speed, but I... just. 

She's scary fast, and not at all forgiving, and I'm not sure I like whatever this new game is, yet.

That said, we'll be doing practices from here until the end of October. She has a show 'n' go at the start of next month I'll take her to (maybe - it's in the middle of a dog fest) - and if she can handle that I might try jumpers and tunnelers ONE DAY with her at the halloween weekend trial. 

And remind myself frequently that she is TWO.


----------



## CptJack

We did a thing our agility trainer thought might be too hard for us at this stage in Kylie's training. 

I've had titles that excited me less than that!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Just got back from our Agility trial this weekend. Lucy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese, did really well. I had her in three classes a day, Starter Standard, Starter Snooker and Starter jumpers each day. On Saturday we just Q'd in Starter Standard but on Sunday, she Q'd in all three classes. She will move up to Advanced Snooker and Jumper at the next trial but needs one more Starter Standard (has 2) to move up.

She really makes me get out there and run, something I have not been able to do for a long time. Really enjoyed it.


----------



## DavidandFreyja

Kyllobernese said:


> Just got back from our Agility trial this weekend. Lucy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese, did really well. I had her in three classes a day, Starter Standard, Starter Snooker and Starter jumpers each day. On Saturday we just Q'd in Starter Standard but on Sunday, she Q'd in all three classes. She will move up to Advanced Snooker and Jumper at the next trial but needs one more Starter Standard (has 2) to move up.
> 
> She really makes me get out there and run, something I have not been able to do for a long time. Really enjoyed it.


Congratulations!


----------



## CptJack

So, yeah. Had a super frank discussion with a friend and we're going to try Molly in a trial the last of October. It's our home trial, on home turf, with good room to spread out and a lot of known people and dogs. We'll enter ONE DAY, with somewhere between 2-4 runs. If it's too much for her, we'll know fast and will scratch her. No big deal. 

But we're going to try it. 

Unless something changes for the worst between now and then. 

And watch me have just jinxed us.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I would go for it with Molly. You may be surprised and also if she can't handle it, you can scratch her. She can't do any worse than Kris did in the spring. Had her in six classes and think I got her over about two jumps. She had been training good but just completely blew me off at the trial even though the previous trial I had her in last fall, she was absolutely right there with me, just a few minor faults.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> I would go for it with Molly. You may be surprised and also if she can't handle it, you can scratch her. She can't do any worse than Kris did in the spring. Had her in six classes and think I got her over about two jumps. She had been training good but just completely blew me off at the trial even though the previous trial I had her in last fall, she was absolutely right there with me, just a few minor faults.


Yeah. The concern is really not so much the agility performance right now (of course), but the environment. I was *considering* the show 'n' go, but the thing with that is that it's going to ultimately be held in the middle of a much busier dog event, with more people, dogs and chaos around her. This trial is going to BE our show 'n' go with her, really, just a long one. We shall see how it goes! I'm kinda excited about taking her to practice tonight. Honestly, the past few weeks she's been a pretty danged normal dog, but. We're still building trust. 

Agility wise, we've got some work to do putting things together, but it's still lower priority to me than 'be there, do the things'. Scary and exciting in turns.


----------



## ireth0

No class for us this week because our instructor is away 

Oh well! Last week we tried out using the ball for reward and she seemed to respond well, even did pretty darn good retrieves! 

We worked on sending to the tunnel from different positions with us restricted in our movement. I was so impressed that she went! Normally I have to go right to the entry and basically point her in, but she did such a great job!

Then we did the table, working on getting the dogs more excited and then immediately tabeling. Luna enjoyed this. Laying down + getting treats = good. 

To end off the class we did some pivoting on a stool and practiced doing sits/etc with paws on the stool. I forget how much Luna enjoys body awareness type stuff. I should do it more often!


----------



## Kyllobernese

The two trials I have had Lucy in, she has done really well. I actually have three Starter Standard so move up to Advanced the next trial in November. In Starters you can miss your entry, which she did, but can go back and try again till they get it right. Once she is in, she had not ducked out and weaved the whole 12. In Advanced, they have to hit the entry or have five faults which means no Q.

So that is what I worked on yesterday at our practice. Of course, Lucy is just doing what I ask and I was not aiming her the right way. Once I figured out which way to point my feet, she never missed. Now if I can just remember when I am in a trial but I will be practicing it twice a week at classes till November so hopefully I can get it right.

The trial in November is our only indoor trial we have around here. All the rest are outdoors, rain or shine. At our last trial it started to hail just as my sister went into the ring with her Rat Terrier. Ecko ran into the first obstacle, a tunnel, and refused to come out. It was so cute as she would run to one end of the tunnel, look out, then run back and look out the other end. She did finally come out and the judge told her to just run her over some of the obstacles and off they went. I think she should have had a rerun as it stopped right after her turn.


----------



## Sibe

Amaze-Bobb and his classmates yesterday. We learned the "whiskey cross" which is like a backside to a rear (softer angles today), a really sliced rear.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Sibe said:


> Amaze-Bobb and his classmates yesterday. We learned the "whiskey cross" which is like a backside to a rear (softer angles today), a really sliced rear.


Look at that little guy go!! The Whiskey is my favorite move and definitely Kai's too. She has a bad habit of always Whiskey Crossing when I want her to do a basic wrap. It sure is a fun!

I'm rooting for Molly in her first trial! Try to get some video if all goes well.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I'm rooting for Molly in her first trial! Try to get some video if all goes well.



Well, going *well* might be a bit much, but practice tonight she was actively friendly to both people and dogs. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgcet3uu1M This is her second time, ever, with seeing more than a few obstacles in a row, and a looooong agility break. Lots of spinning, an off course tunnel and just plain baby/green dog stuff. But you know what? I will take it. 

But Jeeze we have work to do on things like discriminations and weave entries and the like with regular courses. 

But still.

And October Trial will just be jumpers and tunnelers, anyway.


----------



## gingerkid

We (I) really, really needed class to be good today, and Ida didn't disappoint.

No shaking in the car on the way there (still panting and not taking treats, but no shaking is an upgrade!). She DID SERPENTINES. She stuck a contact! (Just one but still!) She only freaked out once while she was crated! She was sending to obstacles! The instructor complimented how responsive she is!

She _was_ convinced that the dogwalk was actually a teeter and was going to drop out from under her at any moment, but that was mostly adorable and funny, and also a good reminder that sometimes she freaks herself out and just needs to be reminded that she's actually done it dozens of times before and isn't actually afraid of it ("it" being whatever the flavour of the week happens to be.... last week it was tunnels, this week it was the dog walk, next week will probably be jumps.)


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> We (I) really, really needed class to be good today, and Ida didn't disappoint.
> 
> No shaking in the car on the way there (still panting and not taking treats, but no shaking is an upgrade!). She DID SERPENTINES. She stuck a contact! (Just one but still!) She only freaked out once while she was crated! She was sending to obstacles! The instructor complimented how responsive she is!
> 
> She _was_ convinced that the dogwalk was actually a teeter and was going to drop out from under her at any moment, but that was mostly adorable and funny, and also a good reminder that sometimes she freaks herself out and just needs to be reminded that she's actually done it dozens of times before and isn't actually afraid of it ("it" being whatever the flavour of the week happens to be.... last week it was tunnels, this week it was the dog walk, next week will probably be jumps.)


I am so, so glad!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Well, going *well* might be a bit much, but practice tonight she was actively friendly to both people and dogs.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgcet3uu1M This is her second time, ever, with seeing more than a few obstacles in a row, and a looooong agility break. Lots of spinning, an off course tunnel and just plain baby/green dog stuff. But you know what? I will take it.
> 
> But Jeeze we have work to do on things like discriminations and weave entries and the like with regular courses.
> 
> But still.
> 
> And October Trial will just be jumpers and tunnelers, anyway.


I meant going well as in.. she feels alright about the whole thing so she can stay and compete. I mean.. I never have high expectations for baby dogs, haha. 

She looks awesome and like a handful! How fun though! She is going to be great.


----------



## gingerkid

Just some video of some practice we did tonight. Mostly for me; Ida's great at picking up cues whether they're intentional or not.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I meant going well as in.. she feels alright about the whole thing so she can stay and compete. I mean.. I never have high expectations for baby dogs, haha.
> 
> She looks awesome and like a handful! How fun though! She is going to be great.


Oh, well in *that* case, yeah. There will be video of her very likely being a total wild child and me being clueless with her. I figure, if nothing else, it will make for a really good 'scrapbook' memory to look back on later - and entertaining as all get out. 

And hey, maybe I'll eventually learn how to handle her! Maybe. Mostly. I really hope I can get some privates for her at some point, though, or I'm going to be up a creek - and spending lots and lots of time set up at the park fumbling around. 

All the credit to her in the world for being responsive and happy, though, and learning to jump in a week!



gingerkid said:


> Just some video of some practice we did tonight. Mostly for me; Ida's great at picking up cues whether they're intentional or not.


You guys look really, really, good and you're going to be absolutely fantastic in the very near future, as you both gain confidence! SHe's such a good girl and freaking gorgeous!


----------



## CptJack

Open Tunnelers and Novice Chances Q, today, as well as Open Jumpers Title ( in spite of Jumpers being the last thing and her dragging). We're one Q away from novice versatility. Heck, we're getting close to OPEN versatility. Except, of course, freaking chances. 

Also, Bug is ridiculously adorable.

ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGke5FDj_Q Video


----------



## Lillith

So does anyone have any tips for teaching the teeter? We tried that one last night at class. Ralphie was fine until he figured out it moved, lol.


----------



## CptJack

Lillith said:


> So does anyone have any tips for teaching the teeter? We tried that one last night at class. Ralphie was fine until he figured out it moved, lol.


start with a table (the table) under one end so it only needs to drop a couple of inches at first was the method my trainer used/uses.


----------



## ireth0

Lillith said:


> So does anyone have any tips for teaching the teeter? We tried that one last night at class. Ralphie was fine until he figured out it moved, lol.


From my other post... lol.

You could make a wobble board. We started with the teeter propped up so it barely moved at all.


----------



## Lillith

ireth0 said:


> From my other post... lol.
> 
> You could make a wobble board. We started with the teeter propped up so it barely moved at all.


Haha, thanks again!


----------



## crysania

The wobble board is one thing we definitely used to acclimate our dogs to movement.

Then we started with the bang game. We'd put a jump stanchion under one end of the teeter and leave just a couple inches for it to drop. Teach the dog to jump up on it and bang it down. At first it would move only a short bit, but then we'd start to move where the jump stanchion was to give it more room to bang down. 

We also ran it between two pause tables like the person above suggested. Get the dog to run across it and it moves, but the WHOLE way.

Once the dog was comfortable with that, we'd basically hold the teeter end so it was part way up, get the dog up on it (yep...strength!) and then say "1-2-3" and release it. At first the dog was like WHAT? But a couple times after they should start anticipating the drop and rocking back before it. 

Once THAT is good, then the dog run up the teeter and when it starts to tip, you catch it halfway, say "1-2-3" and drop it. The dog should continue to anticipate. And you should see the dog start to anticipate it before you even start the "1-2-3" thing. Once they do, you let them run it and see what you have!

That's how we did it at least! It took awhile but my dog, Dahlia, was rock solid on the teeter the entire time she did agility and it was her favorite obstacle.


----------



## Lillith

crysania said:


> The wobble board is one thing we definitely used to acclimate our dogs to movement.
> 
> Then we started with the bang game. We'd put a jump stanchion under one end of the teeter and leave just a couple inches for it to drop. Teach the dog to jump up on it and bang it down. At first it would move only a short bit, but then we'd start to move where the jump stanchion was to give it more room to bang down.
> 
> We also ran it between two pause tables like the person above suggested. Get the dog to run across it and it moves, but the WHOLE way.
> 
> Once the dog was comfortable with that, we'd basically hold the teeter end so it was part way up, get the dog up on it (yep...strength!) and then say "1-2-3" and release it. At first the dog was like WHAT? But a couple times after they should start anticipating the drop and rocking back before it.
> 
> Once THAT is good, then the dog run up the teeter and when it starts to tip, you catch it halfway, say "1-2-3" and drop it. The dog should continue to anticipate. And you should see the dog start to anticipate it before you even start the "1-2-3" thing. Once they do, you let them run it and see what you have!
> 
> That's how we did it at least! It took awhile but my dog, Dahlia, was rock solid on the teeter the entire time she did agility and it was her favorite obstacle.


That's a good idea! That's probably what our instructor was describing that she wanted to try next with the tables.


----------



## CptJack

Guys? 

We had our first clean full course run. She's also taken her discriminations and contact behavior out of the back yard and to practice, finally. This is coming together with her so, so much faster than it did with Kylie, probably because of all the time we spent doing it at home. 

And? Because she's so fast my timing with Kylie has sped way the heck up and as a result of that + jealousy, KYLIE is FLYING.


----------



## gingerkid

CptJack said:


> Guys?
> 
> We had our first clean full course run. She's also taken her discriminations and contact behavior out of the back yard and to practice, finally. This is coming together with her so, so much faster than it did with Kylie, probably because of all the time we spent doing it at home.
> 
> And? Because she's so fast my timing with Kylie has sped way the heck up and as a result of that + jealousy, KYLIE is FLYING.


I have noticed with Ida that training something in the class setting doesn't seem to help her become confident with it. Training it at home (where she is already really confident) and then applying it in class works MUCH better for her. Its making me even more excited for switching facilities; a friend of mine said the instructor at the new place focuses a lot on homework, vs. drilling things over and over in class. The more I hear, the more I know we're making the right move.

Ida does so much better with learning things at home first that, after barely a week of seeing them, and really only a couple sessions of it, that we did full courses running 16" this week, when she'd never even attempted jumps that high in class before. I am 100% attributing it to seeing it at home and getting comfortable with it at home first. She did refuse a couple of jumps but she didn't shy away from them or give any kind of stress/avoidance signals, was still very relaxed, tail wagging, and just stood there staring at me (not the jump, like she does when she's nervous) so I think she was just tired from the extra effort of jumping 6" taller than normal.


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> I have noticed with Ida that training something in the class setting doesn't seem to help her become confident with it. Training it at home (where she is already really confident) and then applying it in class works MUCH better for her. Its making me even more excited for switching facilities; a friend of mine said the instructor at the new place focuses a lot on homework, vs. drilling things over and over in class. The more I hear, the more I know we're making the right move.
> 
> Ida does so much better with learning things at home first that, after barely a week of seeing them, and really only a couple sessions of it, that we did full courses running 16" this week, when she'd never even attempted jumps that high in class before. I am 100% attributing it to seeing it at home and getting comfortable with it at home first. She did refuse a couple of jumps but she didn't shy away from them or give any kind of stress/avoidance signals, was still very relaxed, tail wagging, and just stood there staring at me (not the jump, like she does when she's nervous) so I think she was just tired from the extra effort of jumping 6" taller than normal.


Andrea has always really stressed homework, where homework can be done. She tries to keep track of what equipment people have access to and so on, and even hooked me up with a used (and cheap) A-frame, which is above and beyond. I'm pretty sure if I tried to *teach* much just using the practices and lessons I have (much less group classes), neither of my dogs would know anything. Especially weaves. She's also been really good at saying 'you get it at home, then you get it at practice/lessons, then you get it in a trial' as an order of progression and that is so, so right in my experience. I think your new place will be really, really good for you.

It STILL took three weeks out there. Week one, she jumped off the a-frame from about 6 inches up, and landed on her FACE. The second week, she absolutely couldn't do discriminations, and she was better on contacts but still hit them 2o2o and then pivoted 180 degrees to stare at me. This week I got a nice, solid, stopped contact. Still not 'at home' good, but much better. Ironically, she was more solid on weaving out there than anything else from go, but my god she cannot hit weave entries to save her life.


----------



## gingerkid

CptJack said:


> Ironically, she was more solid on weaving out there than anything else from go, but my god she cannot hit weave entries to save her life.


This reminds me, I need to stop being lazy and make a set of weave poles before it gets colder so that we have something other than backsides to work on indoors...


----------



## ireth0

Well, this week Luna was rocking our run throughs.

Until I totally blanked on the next obstacle in the middle of a run, and she got totally thrown off her game and started knocking into things and flipping obstacle number markers and etc. Sigh.

Oh well, aside from me screwing things up for her she was a superstar.


----------



## gingerkid

ireth0 said:


> Well, this week Luna was rocking our run throughs.
> 
> Until I totally blanked on the next obstacle in the middle of a run, and she got totally thrown off her game and started knocking into things and flipping obstacle number markers and etc. Sigh.
> 
> Oh well, aside from me screwing things up for her she was a superstar.


IME, Humans are usually the weak links, lol.


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> IME, Humans are usually the weak links, lol.


I am becoming increasingly convinced that it takes dogs about a year to learn how to read a cross and perform obstacles (and longer to deal with the environment and huge chains, but still) and about 5 for humans to get their crap together. This stuff is definitely an actual SPORT for the humans and the better you train the dog, the more aware of it you (Meaning I) become - and I mean that in a 'I'm not athletic, wtf am I doing?' way.

This entire last year has been me going "HOW DO I STRATEGIZE THIS AND THEN MAKE IT HAPPEN?!?!?!" combined with "I don't understand how I have to move to make distance work, and I need distance" and "SCrew you, blind crosses." Dog's fine. Dog's great. I just suddenly realized I have no idea what I'm doing.


----------



## gingerkid

CptJack said:


> I am becoming increasingly convinced that it takes dogs about a year to learn how to read a cross and perform obstacles (and longer to deal with the environment and huge chains, but still) and about 5 for humans to get their crap together. This stuff is definitely an actual SPORT for the humans and the better you train the dog, the more aware of it you (Meaning I) become - and I mean that in a 'I'm not athletic, wtf am I doing?' way.
> 
> This entire last year has been me going "HOW DO I STRATEGIZE THIS AND THEN MAKE IT HAPPEN?!?!?!" combined with "I don't understand how I have to move to make distance work, and I need distance" and "SCrew you, blind crosses." Dog's fine. Dog's great. I just suddenly realized I have no idea what I'm doing.


I spent a good 5 minutes last class rehearsing how to take the right number of steps so that Ida would catch the cue for our backsides (because my foot placement is part of the cue right now - I've tested it). Oh and running right past the next obstacle in the wrong direction? That was me. It was great. We're not running starters courses anymore, in our starters courses class. lol.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Will be entering Gamblers for the first time in the November trial so have been working on "sending" to different obstacles. So far, Lucy is doing good at it but the hardest part is having to stop at the Gambler line so you are not moving when you send them out to an obstacle. Will be interesting to see how she does at a trial. She has her Starter Standard Title and is in Advanced in two of the Games so now needs two Q's in Gamblers to get her Starter Games Title. Have her entered in five classes each day. It is our only indoor Trial, all the rest are outdoors.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> Will be entering Gamblers for the first time in the November trial so have been working on "sending" to different obstacles. So far, Lucy is doing good at it but the hardest part is having to stop at the Gambler line so you are not moving when you send them out to an obstacle. Will be interesting to see how she does at a trial. She has her Starter Standard Title and is in Advanced in two of the Games so now needs two Q's in Gamblers to get her Starter Games Title. Have her entered in five classes each day. It is our only indoor Trial, all the rest are outdoors.


This is exactly the challenge with Chances: Trying to plot your path so you don't stop your movement entirely at the line and pull the dog back in toward you. I suck at this. At least with Kylie where she only sometimes wants to go ahead of me. It mostly means sending early (before the line) and CONTINUING to send so I can continue to move. And I often still end up on top of the line before the end, doing crazy tightrope dances.

Good luck at the trial. You guys will be fine.


----------



## CptJack

I changed my mind yet again. We're doing the NC trial, but just one day and 4 runs on that day, and just with Kylie. I'm having trouble focusing on it because I am so busy being anxiety ridden about Molly the week after that (LOL). Molly has practice tomorrow (maybe), Kylie has a show 'n' go this weekend (Molly will not be attending because it's in a giant dog festival with close to a 1000 people expected and Im' not crazy), then we have two weeks, then two trials. Then we have a new year's even trial and our spring trials starting mid march. This fall/winter is going to involve a lot of training from me. I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## gingerkid

Kyllobernese said:


> Will be entering Gamblers for the first time in the November trial so have been working on "sending" to different obstacles. So far, Lucy is doing good at it but the hardest part is having to stop at the Gambler line so you are not moving when you send them out to an obstacle. Will be interesting to see how she does at a trial. She has her Starter Standard Title and is in Advanced in two of the Games so now needs two Q's in Gamblers to get her Starter Games Title. Have her entered in five classes each day. It is our only indoor Trial, all the rest are outdoors.


How far are the gamblers lines usually?


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> How far are the gamblers lines usually?


They look similar to some novice chances stuff - so probably about 10 feet? From what I can tell on youtube. 

Every once in a while I get the feeling people expect me to 'retire' Kylie now that I have Molly up and kind of running. Especially my BIL who keeps calling Molly the real agility dog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7P9gAuJ-Z8

...NOPE.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I think in Starters Gamblers, they are usually about ten feet. They get farther away and more complicated as you move up to Advanced and Masters. At the last trial we were at, they had a square they had to stand in and send the dog out to a tunnel, back over a jump, then out to another jump for the Advanced gamblers.


----------



## CptJack

I filled out the premiums for my Halloween Weekend Home Trial. 

18 runs, y'all. 

EIGHTEEN.


----------



## Lillith

So I finally bit the bullet and purchased a set of weave poles and 3 jumps. I couldn't decide if I should just build them or what, but after pricing it out I found I wouldn't be saving a whole lot of money. And I would probably have to factor in for tools I would have to rent/buy, screw ups, and ER fees.


----------



## gingerkid

Lillith said:


> So I finally bit the bullet and purchased a set of weave poles and 3 jumps. I couldn't decide if I should just build them or what, but after pricing it out I found I wouldn't be saving a whole lot of money. And I would probably have to factor in for tools I would have to rent/buy, screw ups, and ER fees.


I built my equipment out of 3/4" PVC. Jumps worked out to $22 each, and it took me less than an hour to build all four. The only tools I used were an electric mitre saw (which we already owned) and a file because you can't buy T-joints here without internal ridges to stop the pipe from going all the way through, so I had to file that out to make the jump cups, but you can buy a set of 4 pairs of jump cups on Amazon.com for <$10. They were going to be $10 a pair for me.

I haven't built the weaves yet, but I priced out the materials (also out of 3/4" PVC) and for a set of 6 will be $45. Way cheaper than what I can buy, and I don't expect it to be any more challenging than building the jumps.


----------



## CptJack

You can actually buy jumps for about 12.00 each, at least in the US, and Clean run sells some cheapish weaves for about 50. US it doesn't really work out cheaper to build, at least not by much. Though I admit freely I'd also have to buy tools because I have none and Canada is expensive, especially trying to pay shipping from some of the countries.


----------



## Lillith

gingerkid said:


> I built my equipment out of 3/4" PVC. Jumps worked out to $22 each, and it took me less than an hour to build all four. The only tools I used were an electric mitre saw (which we already owned) and a file because you can't buy T-joints here without internal ridges to stop the pipe from going all the way through, so I had to file that out to make the jump cups, but you can buy a set of 4 pairs of jump cups on Amazon.com for <$10. They were going to be $10 a pair for me.
> 
> I haven't built the weaves yet, but I priced out the materials (also out of 3/4" PVC) and for a set of 6 will be $45. Way cheaper than what I can buy, and I don't expect it to be any more challenging than building the jumps.


Yeah, that's pretty close to what I worked out. I got these for $99.99, free shipping. I'm not particularly handy, and I'm accident prone, lol!

ETA: Here's the link if anyone is lazy and interested, lol. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dog-Agility...hash=item33bd841550:m:m9GNelYEU_i727DBv0JOcdA


----------



## gingerkid

CptJack said:


> You can actually buy jumps for about 12.00 each, at least in the US, and Clean run sells some cheapish weaves for about 50. US it doesn't really work out cheaper to build, at least not by much. Though I admit freely I'd also have to buy tools because I have none and Canada is expensive, especially trying to pay shipping from some of the countries.


The cheapest jumps I could find were $40 EACH. Weaves are also $50.... plus $30 shipping. A usable tunnel is going to cost me ~$100 including shipping. :'(

Materials to make things in the US would be much cheaper than they cost me - when I priced it out on the US Home Depot website, it was less than half what I paid.


----------



## ireth0

Our jump is made out of leftover scrap wood and an old closet bar. Definitely not pretty and not regulation but it gets the job done.


----------



## gingerkid

What are your cues for the dog walk vs. the A-frame?

I have been using "walk" for both, which isn't a problem in starters where I'm going to be right there with the dog for most of it and the entries into the contacts are pretty much straight on, but doesn't allow for discrimination at higher levels. I like using "walk" for the dog walk, but I don't like "wall" (too similar to "walk"), which is what my current trainer uses. Any other ideas?


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> What are your cues for the dog walk vs. the A-frame?
> 
> I have been using "walk" for both, which isn't a problem in starters where I'm going to be right there with the dog for most of it and the entries into the contacts are pretty much straight on, but doesn't allow for discrimination at higher levels. I like using "walk" for the dog walk, but I don't like "wall" (too similar to "walk"), which is what my current trainer uses. Any other ideas?




I use walk it for both. Even if they're close and discriminations, my cue for which to take is 'out' (away from me) or 'here' (closest to me). Works for tunnel/tunnel, tunnel/contact, contact/contact, whatever. Body language works too (in fact works better, and trumps whatever nonsense comes out of my mouth, thank god). Push out for the further out obstacle (arm out, step out), shoulder pull and arm in for the nearer, feet pointed straight.

That said, I know some people who use 'walk it' for the dog walk and 'climb' for the A-frame.


----------



## ireth0

Our teacher really focuses on body language over verbal cues.


----------



## CptJack

Honestly, body-language overrides in agility, every time. Having verbals is useful when you need distance, but even there, body language trumps, it's just abbreviated. I've sure as heck told Kylie to jump tunnels, climb jumps, or even 'here walk it' while 'out tunnel' body language. She does what my body language says, period. Fortunately, what I actually wanted is USUALLY what my body language is conveying anyway - words get muddle for me a lot more often than physical cues.


----------



## Lillith

I decided to use "climb" for the A-Frame, and the dog walk came out as "walky, walky, walky!!!!!!" lol, so I just stuck with. Right now my body language seems to direct him enough, but sometimes my body is a bigger mess than the words that escape my mouth.


----------



## CptJack

Lillith said:


> I decided to use "climb" for the A-Frame, and the dog walk came out as "walky, walky, walky!!!!!!" lol, so I just stuck with. Right now my body language seems to direct him enough, but sometimes my body is a bigger mess than the words that escape my mouth.


I think that's really common with newer/greener handlers and dogs. I know back when we were in beginner agility I could do things like 'over' a tunnel and the dog would, by god, jump the tunnel. I was also completely baffled that maybe I'd ever drop/not really need or use verbals. Then the dog got some experience reading me and figured out the nature of the game and I stopped fumbling around so much and, yeah.

But you have to be at the point that the dog is LOOKING for the next obstacle/direction you're going instead of expecting the course to end at any given second, is able to read your cues, and you've run together enough for the dog to be noticing things like shoulders and feet while on the move and that all takes time. 

I'm still kind of baffled at how radically my thoughts about it changed though. I remember being SO SURE my dog was ALWAYS going to need the verbals, you guys just don't get it. ...funny as heck, now, though. I guess I literally ate my words with that one.


----------



## Lillith

CptJack said:


> I think that's really common with newer/greener handlers and dogs. I know back when we were in beginner agility I could do things like 'over' a tunnel and the dog would, by god, jump the tunnel. I was also completely baffled that maybe I'd ever drop/not really need or use verbals. Then the dog got some experience reading me and figured out the nature of the game and I stopped fumbling around so much and, yeah.
> 
> But you have to be at the point that the dog is LOOKING for the next obstacle/direction you're going instead of expecting the course to end at any given second, is able to read your cues, and you've run together enough for the dog to be noticing things like shoulders and feet while on the move and that all takes time.
> 
> I'm still kind of baffled at how radically my thoughts about it changed though. I remember being SO SURE my dog was ALWAYS going to need the verbals, you guys just don't get it. ...funny as heck, now, though. I guess I literally ate my words with that one.


Oh yeah, I'm always yelling things like "Tunnel!" when he's supposed to do the jump, or vice versa, lol. Right now he will just skip that obstacle and stop and stare at me like "What ARE you doing, human?" I mean, it's HARD to control my own body and words and sometimes I wonder if the dog knows what he's doing more than I do!


----------



## gingerkid

Depending on who I follow in class, I've been known to shout "place" instead of "table!" (I don't have any kind of place command), and it's anyone's guess as to what I'm going to call the A-frame. Sometimes its "walk" sometimes its "wall" sometimes its "frame" sometimes its "hup" sometimes it's over. 

But basically what I'm getting is that.... as long as the dog can read ME it doesn't really matter.

One thing I do need to for sure work on discriminating better is "back" (take the backside) and "fly" (not an agility cue, but means "go around the thing"). The body language for both is identical, even if the verbal is different, but I don't know how to change that aside from getting them both to be entirely verbal, because the actual motions of the whole body cues are pretty identical but one finishes with a jump after going around the thing instead of just racing towards me after going around the thing.

Edit: but maybe I don't need to worry about it at this stage, since I hear backsides aren't something that are in any starters courses anyway.


----------



## CptJack

I wouldn't sweat even that. As she gains experience, she'll figure it out based on context. I know some people won't teach barrels and therefore won't do NADAC because you have this obstacle you go around and OMG THE DOG WILL DO THAT WITH OTHER OBSTACLES. Baloney. 

I use 'out' for 'get out - move laterally away from me and do a thing' and 'go run around the barrel and come back to me. It's never been an issue with her or Molly. Is there a barrel there? Then they're going to go around it. Is there not? Then they're going to move away from me and take the obstacle the way it's intended to be taken (ie: Jump the jump, go in the tunnel, whatever). Now if you somehow needed both in short order (go around a thing and then take a backside) you might have an issue but. Probably not.


----------



## Kyllobernese

At one of the trials my sister went to, they had a fun night on the Friday. One of the things they did was hold something in their mouth and work the dogs over the course without saying anything. It was surprising how some of the dogs worked better than they did when the handler was telling them what to do. I know how much better Lucy is working since I started to use more body language. It is very obvious in the weaves. She had not been hitting the entry and it was entirely the way I was pointing my feet and body that was making her take the wrong entry. She is in Advanced now so has to hit the entry, no second tries like in Starters.

We had an Open house at the arena on Saturday. We just showed people what the dogs are capable if properly trained. I did a Rally Course with Kris and she did it perfectly. When I did the Agility with her, she was so good that my sister said I should try her in the November trial as I was taking Lucy and she was taking her Rat Terrier, Ecko, anyway. It is probably a good idea as most of her training has been indoors and it might give her the confidence she needs to do it outdoors next summer. So both days I will have Lucy in Steeplechase, Advanced Jumpers, Standard and Snooker, in Starter Gamblers for the first time and will put Kris in Starter Standard and Jumpers. Will be a busy two days.


----------



## gingerkid

CptJack said:


> I wouldn't sweat even that. As she gains experience, she'll figure it out based on context. I know some people won't teach barrels and therefore won't do NADAC because you have this obstacle you go around and OMG THE DOG WILL DO THAT WITH OTHER OBSTACLES. Baloney.
> 
> I use 'out' for 'get out - move laterally away from me and do a thing' and 'go run around the barrel and come back to me. It's never been an issue with her or Molly. Is there a barrel there? Then they're going to go around it. Is there not? Then they're going to move away from me and take the obstacle the way it's intended to be taken (ie: Jump the jump, go in the tunnel, whatever). Now if you somehow needed both in short order (go around a thing and then take a backside) you might have an issue but. Probably not.


The issue I'm having is if I work on Fly even within a few days of trying to work on backsides, she just flies around everything, like she forgot what backsides were. But it might also be a speed vs. brain thing because today I tried again and she just wanted to go FAST just doing everything which meant she was missing corners she can normally make when shes a little less... spastic.


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> The issue I'm having is if I work on Fly even within a few days of trying to work on backsides, she just flies around everything, like she forgot what backsides were. But it might also be a speed vs. brain thing because today I tried again and she just wanted to go FAST just doing everything which meant she was missing corners she can normally make when shes a little less... spastic.


I hear you. Dogs who stress high are hard AND dogs who predict and move at the speed of sound are hard. I still get a lot of what amounts to guess work with Molly, in agility, plus some just plain sloppiness in things like cut corners, messy turns, and knocked bars. And like I said, guess work re: discriminations and where we're going next on the course. And sometimes doing the wrong thing she thinks I mean over and over and over. And once in a blue moon leaping from the top of contacts because GOING FAST. 

I mean, I could be wrong. The verbal being more clear to her will probably clean it up for now, but probably most of it as with all things in agility (says me, lol) will come with less stress (negative or positive) and more experience. What's that saying? You can train a young dog, but you can't make them an old dog?


----------



## gingerkid

CptJack said:


> I hear you. Dogs who stress high are hard AND dogs who predict and move at the speed of sound are hard. I still get a lot of what amounts to guess work with Molly, in agility, plus some just plain sloppiness in things like cut corners, messy turns, and knocked bars. And like I said, guess work re: discriminations and where we're going next on the course. And sometimes doing the wrong thing she thinks I mean over and over and over. And once in a blue moon leaping from the top of contacts because GOING FAST.
> 
> I mean, I could be wrong. The verbal being more clear to her will probably clean it up for now, but probably most of it as with all things in agility (says me, lol) will come with less stress (negative or positive) and more experience. What's that saying? You can train a young dog, but you can't make them an old dog?


I guess I should clarify - this was in the back yard. It was probably most confusion and also balls kind of melt her brain. They're sure good for getting her to go fast tho...


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, that's actually why I said positive or negative stress. I may be using the word wrong but when dogs are that ramped up, to me, it's still a sort of stress. At the very least it's an adrenaline high and still a pretty difficult state to work with a dog in and can lead to some crazy. It's not environmental, it's not fear, but it's still - well, a difficult emotional state to be able to handle the dog in. Not a bad thing, per-se, but it still leads to 'brain falling out', and it's still something that makes it hard for both dog and handler to get anywhere.


----------



## gingerkid

CptJack said:


> Yeah, that's actually why I said positive or negative stress. I may be using the word wrong but when dogs are that ramped up, to me, it's still a sort of stress. At the very least it's an adrenaline high and still a pretty difficult state to work with a dog in and can lead to some crazy. It's not environmental, it's not fear, but it's still - well, a difficult emotional state to be able to handle the dog in. Not a bad thing, per-se, but it still leads to 'brain falling out', and it's still something that makes it hard for both dog and handler to get anywhere.


AH, Gotcha.

We'll work on differentiating them using food only. Hopefully I can fix them before class on Thursday.... when the instructor found out we had a backside, she started throwing them into our "starters" courses.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgfbv0O1hSM

Go, Molly, go....


----------



## elrohwen

Ugh, we are falling behind on weaves already and we're only a few classes in. I finally got them set up at the new house so we have space to work, but it gets dark so fast. We're on the stage of 2x2 where the dog runs straight through two sets of poles. So I need to actually throw straight over a distance of 15ft (not easy!) and Hazel needs to run all out through both. But I think the dark + shadows freaks her out a bit because last night I got stress signals and purposefully running around the poles. I guess I don't blame her, I wouldn't run full speed at a 24" gap between two poles in the dark. Starting it earlier in the year wouldn't have helped because I didn't have anywhere to work on it, but man the timing sucks. We're at the same stage as most of the rest of the class right now (about 3 weeks in I think), but I don't want to fall behind. Our living room is giant and carpeted and currently doesn't have any furniture, so I might see if that has enough room to get some practice.


----------



## ireth0

elrohwen said:


> Ugh, we are falling behind on weaves already and we're only a few classes in. I finally got them set up at the new house so we have space to work, but it gets dark so fast. We're on the stage of 2x2 where the dog runs straight through two sets of poles. So I need to actually throw straight over a distance of 15ft (not easy!) and Hazel needs to run all out through both. But I think the dark + shadows freaks her out a bit because last night I got stress signals and purposefully running around the poles. I guess I don't blame her, I wouldn't run full speed at a 24" gap between two poles in the dark. Starting it earlier in the year wouldn't have helped because I didn't have anywhere to work on it, but man the timing sucks. We're at the same stage as most of the rest of the class right now (about 3 weeks in I think), but I don't want to fall behind. Our living room is giant and carpeted and currently doesn't have any furniture, so I might see if that has enough room to get some practice.


Does it matter if you're not at the same place as the class? Our instructor just adjusts the weaves for what level each individual dog is at


----------



## elrohwen

ireth0 said:


> Does it matter if you're not at the same place as the class? Our instructor just adjusts the weaves for what level each individual dog is at


Yes, she will adjust, but I also don't want to be back on step 3 when everybody else is doing a full 6 weaves ya know?


----------



## crysania

ireth0 said:


> Does it matter if you're not at the same place as the class? Our instructor just adjusts the weaves for what level each individual dog is at


I agree with this! Every team is going to be at a different place. It just happens because no two dogs and no two handlers are alike. Right now Ben is in the middle of the pack as far as weaves are concerned. In our class we have dogs who are just working on the first two poles, we have dogs who can weave 6, and we have dogs like Ben who are working on two sets of two poles (both slanted). My first agility dog (Dahlia) was WAY behind. Other dogs were working on proofing 6 poles and Dahlia was still working on trying to get to 4. We had no weave poles at home (and no yard) and so it was slow going for us. And that's ok! 

My instructor once told me that one of the WORST things you can do is compare yourself to other teams. Everyone is on their own journey and everyone struggles with different things. I used to be jealous of the people with the fast dogs because I thought it would be so much easier and more fun. Well, it IS a lot of fun. But it's SUPER hard to keep up with a dog as fast and driven as Ben can be. So don't compare. Enjoy YOUR journey. That's the most important thing!


----------



## elrohwen

I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not comparing myself to other teams like "they figured it out and we can't!" I'm comparing myself like "crap, we have not practiced at all. We need to work on this or we won't make any progress at all"

I'm well past the point in my training journey of comparing us to other teams  But there's no way around having to train something if you want to get it and I need to figure out how/where we're going to train this.


----------



## crysania

I ALWAYS forget to have someone videotape Ben at class. The last time I did was back in April. But here's my little man doing a jump grid. Which looks easy but it's not that easy! The bars were set at different heights (8 inches for the striding jumps and then 16 for the real jumps, we're working our way up to 20 at this point) and with the wings and different stripes it was really confusing from the dog's viewpoint. Ben did well! 

https://youtu.be/I1K3B0Hdkx0


----------



## CptJack

Oh hey! Weaves and video discussion! I can contribute both! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgfbv0O1hSM

I do believe she's worked out how to find the entry and not be babysat. That last one thrills me. I didn't even stand up!

@Elrohwen, inside should work fine. The good news is most other people will probably fall behind more as it gets colder and keeps getting dark. Okay, that isn't good news, but not being able to do the class homework actually stresses me out, a lot. Or lesson homework where it's just me. It happens, it's human, but it frustrates the crap out of me. I AM A RESPONSIBLE PERSON I HAVE HOMEWORK I MUST DO IT. Yeah, I was that kid then, too. I hope indoors works for you.


----------



## crysania

A friend of mine once said she knew he dogs KNEW how to do something when she could have them do it AND take a picture of it. I'd say if you can videotape her YOURSELF and she does it, she's got it! She looks great.


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> A friend of mine once said she knew he dogs KNEW how to do something when she could have them do it AND take a picture of it. I'd say if you can videotape her YOURSELF and she does it, she's got it! She looks great.


Thanks. Yeah, I recently stood around taking pictures of Kylie weaving while I did NOTHING. It was awesome. Took Kylie a good year and a half but whatever  Being able to sit there and let the dog go may be my new criteria or independent obstacle performance. LOL.


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> Thanks. Yeah, I recently stood around taking pictures of Kylie weaving while I did NOTHING. It was awesome. Took Kylie a good year and a half but whatever  Being able to sit there and let the dog go may be my new criteria or independent obstacle performance. LOL.


That sounds like a good plan to me! I'm desperately trying to get more independent weave poles with Ben. With Dahlia, I had to basically stand right by them and walk alongside her to get her to do them. We NEVER got them to be really independent. Of course, she was a slow, mellow, velcro dog with little confidence so that may have contributed to it. But I never really worked toward making them independent. I have a feeling I'm going to need them with Ben!


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> That sounds like a good plan to me! I'm desperately trying to get more independent weave poles with Ben. With Dahlia, I had to basically stand right by them and walk alongside her to get her to do them. We NEVER got them to be really independent. Of course, she was a slow, mellow, velcro dog with little confidence so that may have contributed to it. But I never really worked toward making them independent. I have a feeling I'm going to need them with Ben!


The best advice I ever got for fostering independence and to train distance is that if the dog goes away from you and does *ANYTHING* out there, you reward it and get happy, rather than worrying about whether they did the RIGHT thing or not. It's really helped Kylie in particular. Once we get through these next couple of trials (The 23rd and 29th and 30th) it'll be about 80% of our training with her. 

Molly, well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgcet3uu1M

LOL. She's improved since then (her second 'more than 4 things' ever) but she's a wild child. "Get some control on it" is and will continue to be a thing, I suspect. TOTALLY WILLING TO GO ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE FIELD TO TAKE THE THING I ACCIDENTALLY POINTED AT THOUGH!


----------



## CptJack

Oh and this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xce_AOC06d4

Her contacts make me happy too.


----------



## crysania

She looks great!

We always sort of shape things that way -- first times, if the dog TRIES, looks at it, moves toward it, etc, they get rewarded, And then you start waiting it out for more and more. It's been working well for Ben's weaves so far and it's worked great for his contacts so far. He's starting to really dive on his target (we're just practicing end behavior right now) and really GETTING it.


----------



## CptJack

Ben sounds awesome!

Oh, everything in early stages is basically 'did you try? are you here? have a party'. With Kylie, that stays because she's very easily deflated and left to her own devices will believe (and has) that the point of agility is to do everything exactly right, instead of you know, GO. 

Distance in particular - and the dog has to be willing to leave you even if you're not doing distance challenges - is about 'going out' separate of any actual obstacle performance. Did they leave you and do a thing? PARTY. Obstacle criteria will follow along eventually, as will precision, but they've got to be willing to leave you and know it's fun. Like there is no stage where you 'no' a dog who went 50 feet away from you and took the wrong thing, even by withholding rewards, really. That crap's rough on dogs and even really confident dogs flatten out quite a bit with distance. Which means slow. Which means wanting to be close. 

And by GOD I am going to be able to do Chances next year if it kills me. LOL.


----------



## gingerkid

Just finished listening to the Bad Dog Agility episode with Silvia Trkman and now I want to try teaching running contacts so bad but I think it's probably a bad idea (has anyone done it? is it a bad idea for a newbie to try?).


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> Just finished listening to the Bad Dog Agility episode with Silvia Trkman and now I want to try teaching running contacts so bad but I think it's probably a bad idea (has anyone done it? is it a bad idea for a newbie to try?).


Kylie has both running and stopped contacts. It took probably... 6-8 months? To get to the point where I could pick which one I wanted. Actually teaching HER took very little (month? maybe two) because her natural stride takes her well into or through the contact zone. I use running more than stopped with her and it's really helped keep her motivated and moving on course, while letting me have the option of stopped if I need to get a cross in there or pull her off a seemingly obvious off-course. 

You could not pay me to use running contacts with Molly, for so many reasons. She has, and would, absolutely leap not just the contact but from really high up and get hurt. She's done it before, and it's scary. Her entire a-frame, from the ground on one side to the contact on the other is about 4 strides and is often 3. As in she hits the a-frame downside ONCE before she hits the ground for the 2o2o. I *need* to be able to STOP HER on the course both for my handling (I'm often way behind) and to make her stop, breathe, and focus. Also, she really does best with super clear criteria, and 2o2o gives her that.

Like. If my biggest fear were 'dog will miss contacts sometimes' I wouldn't have an issue with it because they're fun and pretty, but I need the stop and I need her to not break her neck. Maybe in another 2 or 3 years, but not now.


----------



## ireth0

Our teacher really only suggests running contacts for dogs that are more naturally inclined to hit the contacts with their normal gait anyway. Everyone else does stopped.

Luna really enjoys this game, lol. She's caught me off guard remembering to stop when I've forgotten about it.


----------



## CptJack

MOST teachers teach stopped. It's not actually about suitability for the dog or handler, it's about the ease of teaching in a class setting. Running takes a metric ton of work, more space, and a lot more time. Group classes of fairly low level agility are never going to teach running. It's just too time, labor, and space intensive and 2o2o will work for any dog fairly easily.


----------



## ireth0

Well there is one dog in our class that does running


----------



## CptJack

ireth0 said:


> Well there is one dog in our class that does running


Does the dog do trained running contacts, or does the dog not stop on contacts? Because just running through counts as not stopped. It doesn't count as a training a running contact ;-) 

Also I'v had people doing running in our classes too. Our instructor didn't teach them, just lets them meet their own criteria in class and moves on. Upper level classes like advanced and trained by the owners. TEACHING contacts is pretty much, you know, 2o2o.


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> Does the dog do trained running contacts, or does the dog not stop on contacts? Because just running through counts as not stopped. It doesn't count as a training a running contact ;-)
> 
> Also I'v had people doing running in our classes too. Our instructor didn't teach them, just lets them meet their own criteria in class and moves on. Upper level classes like advanced and trained by the owners. TEACHING contacts is pretty much, you know, 2o2o.


Being honest with you I don't know. I know when the rest of us have worked on 2o2o in class this dog doesn't. I'm -pretty sure- I remember a while back when we first started learning them the teacher specifically mentioning something along the lines of "except for dogs who can do running contacts easily, like *dog's name*"


----------



## CptJack

ireth0 said:


> Being honest with you I don't know. I know when the rest of us have worked on 2o2o in class this dog doesn't. I'm -pretty sure- I remember a while back when we first started learning them the teacher specifically mentioning something along the lines of "except for dogs who can do running contacts easily, like *dog's name*"


How big is the dog? Not that it matters a ton, since it mostly sounds like it wasn't trained in class, regardless, but darn it, I'm curious!


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> How big is the dog?


Little. I'd guess maybe in the 15lb range? I forget the breed, but it's a French name, little and white. Shih-tzu sized.


----------



## CptJack

ireth0 said:


> Little. I'd guess maybe in the 15lb range? I forget the breed, but it's a French name, little and white. Shih-tzu sized.


Probably in the realm of 'natural strides carries off'. I could be wrong and it's probably not a big deal but it's actually really useful. I ALMOST had it with Kylie except she tends to extend to some stupid amount. I was miffed. THISCLOSE.


----------



## elrohwen

Watson does running. But he's a careful dog who doesn't take risks and it really hasn't occurred to him to jump off so it was very easy to teach him. We didn't do Trkman's method which is a lot more systematic. But we did use the method the trainer used for her own Goldens and buhunds so it wasn't totally random either. 

The impression I've gotten from other people is that her method works best if you have your own full size dog walk, otherwise it's tough to get the training in. And you also probably need someone who knows the method well to help troubleshoot. 

Hazel does 2o2o. She will fly off midway without something to drive to, so I felt like stopped were the safer and easier way to go


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> Probably in the realm of 'natural strides carries off'. I could be wrong and it's probably not a big deal but it's actually really useful. I ALMOST had it with Kylie except she tends to extend to some stupid amount. I was miffed. THISCLOSE.


Because it was bugging me I did some FB digging. I'm 95% sure he's a Coton. I could have sworn it was something more exotic than that. Oh well!


----------



## elrohwen

I agree with CptJack that the method is suitable for all dogs. It's just not something people teach in classes. Partially because only the top level people are really using it for the most part. And it's so much easier to teach people stopped. But you can train running contacts on any sized dog.


----------



## CptJack

elrohwen said:


> I agree with CptJack that the method is suitable for all dogs. It's just not something people teach in classes. Partially because only the top level people are really using it for the most part. And it's so much easier to teach people stopped. But you can train running contacts on any sized dog.


Oh yeah, didn't mean to imply that you couldn't. 

It's just that it's *training* running on bigger dogs but there is a very specific stride length and size where the dog doesn't really have to learn anything to adjust their stride. Does that make sense? There are people out there (I know a woman with a sheltie) who really does use running contacts but the dog never had to learn a thing related to them. Dog isn't jumping, dog's stride length doesn't need adjusted, it just needs to go. It's awesome and works (and I'm jealous), but THAT doesn't work for all dogs.


----------



## ireth0

Oh yea, I don't think anybody said it wasn't suitable for some dogs or that you couldn't train it.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Oh yeah, didn't mean to imply that you didn't. It's just that it's *training* running on bigger dogs but there is a very specific stride length and size where the dog doesn't really have to learn anything to adjust their stride. Does that make sense? There are people out there (I know a woman with a sheltie) who really does use running contacts but the dog never had to learn a thing related to them. Dog isn't jumping, dog's stride length doesn't need adjusted, it just needs to go. And it's awesome and works, but THAT doesn't work for all dogs.


Oh yeah, I knew what you meant  And really the only reason Watson does running is because we tried it and it was natural for him. Because he just wants to go the whole way down. But it wasn't natural for Hazel so I quickly changed. I've been told it's easier to go from running to stopped than the other way around so I didn't worry about it and she's picked it up pretty fast. 

I would have been curious to work with that trainer longer and in groups to see how she handled it. She really liked to do running but her method left too much up to the dog to figure out I think.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

The only people who do running contacts in my classes are people who take a lot of private lessons/are very experienced. It seems like it should be simple.. but apparently a lot goes into it. I like 2o2o anyway.. it gives me time to think.


----------



## CptJack

I will admit freely that I worry about the impact of Molly slamming into the position, long term. I just... worry about her falling on her face from the top again more. Plus I really, really, do need the time with her.


----------



## crysania

I used to think about doing running contacts with Dahlia but my teacher was totally against it. Dahlia was slow, really careful, and stopping her always lost what little momentum she had. I never had a problem with her jumping off (Ben, on the other hand? I could totally see him taking a flying leap off of it because he's NUTS). But she insisted on the stopped contacts. It was the only thing that really irked me the entire time Dahlia and I did classes with her.


----------



## CptJack

Just realized I have pictures of Kylie's running contacts.









This? I like.









A frame tends to be a bit high lately and needs reworked.


----------



## crysania

I just LOVE pictures of her so much! Such a happy smiley face! Ben looks like that when he runs agility too. Just always smiling. Dahlia always looked so serious.


----------



## CptJack

So, on one hand Molly did 12 weaves at practice tonight. 

On the other HOLY CRAP I did not need her to go "WHEE IT IS COOL OUT" and go *faster*. I really, really, really need to get some private lessons with this dog. I don't know when, I don't know how, but I need some help, and an opportunity to break courses down and spend more time on them than I get at practice.

But I mean. Fun. Fun is being had.


----------



## CptJack

> Dog Information:
> 
> Call Name: Kylie
> 
> 
> Runs entered:
> 10/29/2016 Chances 08 Nov Std S
> 10/29/2016 Regular 1 08 Elite Std S
> 10/29/2016 Regular 2 08 Elite Std S
> 10/29/2016 Touch N' Go 08 Elite Std S
> 10/29/2016 Weavers 08 Open Std S
> 
> 10/30/2016 Chances 08 Nov Std S
> 10/30/2016 Regular 1 08 Elite Std S
> 10/30/2016 Regular 2 08 Elite Std S
> 10/30/2016 Touch N' Go 08 Elite Std S
> 
> 
> Dog Information:
> 
> Call Name: Bug
> 
> 
> Runs entered:
> 10/29/2016 Jumpers 04 Intro Vet S
> 
> 10/30/2016 Jumpers 04 Intro Vet S
> 
> 
> Dog Information:
> 
> Call Name: Molly
> 
> 
> Runs entered:
> 10/29/2016 Jumpers 16 Nov Std S
> 10/29/2016 Regular 1 16 Intro Std S
> 10/29/2016 Regular 2 16 Intro Std S
> 
> 10/30/2016 Jumpers 16 Nov Std S
> 10/30/2016 Regular 1 16 Intro Std S
> 10/30/2016 Regular 2 16 Intro Std S
> 10/30/2016 Tunnelers 16 Nov Std S


Did I mention *eighteen runs*? I'm going to die. 

Also now I'm well and truly petrified. What am I doing?


----------



## Lillith

My agility equipment arrived today! I'll post some (probably hilarious) videos of our attempts when I get a chance. And I don't regret buying instead of building myself, because the first thing I did when I took it out of the box was promptly put it together incorrectly, so I couldn't even use it tonight! In my defense, Ralphie stole the instructions and proceeded to run away with them across the yard.


----------



## AsherLove

My 11 yr old mini poodle is still doing quite well with his agility, however I'm noticing his starting blindness with the darker tunnels. You can kinda hear him feeling his way through the dark tunnels. Yesterday at the end of class we did 'races' of jump jump jump tunnel jump jump jump. With the dark tunnel side he messed up on the tunnel most runs (going in and coming back out the same side generally or sometimes going towards the middle of the tunnel instead of into the opening), but on the lighter yellow tunnel he didn't mess up once. Going to have to be very clear about sending him into the darker tunnels.


----------



## gingerkid

crysania said:


> I used to think about doing running contacts with Dahlia but my teacher was totally against it. Dahlia was slow, really careful, and stopping her always lost what little momentum she had. I never had a problem with her jumping off (Ben, on the other hand? I could totally see him taking a flying leap off of it because he's NUTS). But she insisted on the stopped contacts. It was the only thing that really irked me the entire time Dahlia and I did classes with her.


This is exactly why I am thinking about doing running contacts. Actually, we "accidentally" did them in class last night on the dog walk; Ida's obviously not trained on them, but we've had so much trouble with the dog walk (Which she still sometimes thinks is the teeter) that I've decided to let her run it to build some enthusiasm. And honestly, it looked really natural for her. I'll still need to proof our stopped contact for the A-frame (which she will leap off), but I'm really seriously considering teaching running contacts just to help keep up that happy, _running_ dog I had in class last night.


----------



## elrohwen

Tried to practice weaves last night, but the new yard is so exciting that Hazel took the ball for a 2 minute walkabout after every rep. Sigh. We will get there! Way too much novelty going on right now.

My jumps and tunnel were delivered yesterday, though I have to find them in the pile of stuff the movers dumped in the garage. I'm super excited to be able to practice outside of class again.


----------



## elrohwen

We finally got some video! Not our best night, unfortunately. But now I'm motivated to take more video in case we have a really nice run. And sorry for the vertical video. Haha


----------



## CptJack

Ahahah.

Me, this week: Yeah, Kylie's got running and stopped contacts and her natural stride + a little training, blah blah blah. 
Lesson today: WHEE LEAP. 

So yeah, no. Going back to 2o2o for a while.


----------



## ireth0

So our club is hosting a fun match in Dec. I'm kind of tempted to try a run just to try because it's only $10? But I'm not familiar with the ones being offered. Could anyone shed some light?

Standard
Steeplechase
Jumpers 

Even if I don't run Luna I've offered to volunteer helping out doing whatever. But I thought it might be a good opportunity to get some ring exposure?

ETA: I do also plan on talking about it with our instructor this weekend and see what she thinks.


----------



## CptJack

Standard is regular agility with all the equipment. 

Steeplechase is jumps, tunnels, weaves, and the a-frame, I believe. 

Jumpers in USDAA is jumps, tunnels, sometimes weaves. 

https://www.usdaa.com/rulesReg_ClassDescs.cfm More details there.

But honestly, it's a fun match. It's there for practice and ring experience. Go, do what you can, and have fun.


----------



## elrohwen

Most people I train with use fun matches as training opportunities. They rarely do the actual course that's laid out, and take bits and pieces of it that their dog knows and work through those sequences. Our instructor even gives us course maps as homework and has us write out 3 things we could do with that course at a fun match to practice what we know.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

elrohwen said:


> We finally got some video! Not our best night, unfortunately. But now I'm motivated to take more video in case we have a really nice run. And sorry for the vertical video. Haha


Hazel looks like she really enjoys agility! She will be awesome. 



ireth0 said:


> So our club is hosting a fun match in Dec. I'm kind of tempted to try a run just to try because it's only $10? But I'm not familiar with the ones being offered. Could anyone shed some light?
> 
> Standard
> Steeplechase
> Jumpers
> 
> Even if I don't run Luna I've offered to volunteer helping out doing whatever. But I thought it might be a good opportunity to get some ring exposure?
> 
> ETA: I do also plan on talking about it with our instructor this weekend and see what she thinks.


I vote YES. Practice trials are for both ring exposure and working out the kinks without the pressure of real trials. My first practice trial was absolutely terrible.. but great for both my dog and even moreso myself. I needed exposure to the trial environment just as much as my dog.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Hazel looks like she really enjoys agility! She will be awesome.


We're getting there! Early on she was very fast and very much "Whee!! Look at me! I'm doing the stuff!" but her handler focus wasn't very good. Now she pays a lot more attention to what I'm doing and rarely runs to take off course contact obstacles (except for that darn table! haha), but she's slowed down a lot. I think part of that is running the dark and being more cautious, so it will be interesting to see if she speeds up again when we're back indoors with good lighting. It's also a lot harder to keep her attention outdoors and we get more distracted moments which I hope decrease inside.


----------



## CptJack

Something I meant to mention but didn't is that tunnels even in shadow, much less low lighting, can be really horrifying and hard for dogs. Which may explain her issue there, and certainly explains why Kylie occasionally outright misses a tunnel entry when we're in the horse barn. Deep shadows near bright lights are not great for visibility and the inside of those things is DARKER.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Something I meant to mention but didn't is that tunnels even in shadow, much less low lighting, can be really horrifying and hard for dogs. Which may explain her issue there, and certainly explains why Kylie occasionally outright misses a tunnel entry when we're in the horse barn. Deep shadows near bright lights are not great for visibility and the inside of those things is DARKER.


Tunnels have been so hard for everyone in the dark. That first tunnel in my video? It took 3 tries to get her into it (I didn't post those videos! haha). It was lit up all around and the opening was a black hole. There was a tunnel the week before that every single dog balked at more than once. 

I think it effects her jumping too. Weird shadows make her more likely to slow down and look at the jump vs fling herself at it. I definitely noticed a difference even from the classes a month or so ago where it was light at 7pm when we started but dark at the end, vs the classes now where it's pretty much dark when we start. We always start with sequences and end with "training" (weaves, teeter, new handling moves, etc) so at one point it was light for the first runs, but not anymore :-(

We should be indoors by the beginning of November. Fingers crossed!


----------



## CptJack

This is the first time I noticed lighting creating an issue. Kylie had never done that before, ever, and I was so confused but laughing about it, and had someone else see the video and point out I was asking her to turn into bright light, from shadow, and hit the dark tunnel entry. (The lighting was even more extreme without the camera adjusting for it). 

Since then I've noticed it a few times. With mostly tunnels but also jumps and honestly even HOOPS, especially the red ones when we're on grass. It's not often enough for me to worry about her vision having a problem, but 'can my dog see the obstacle' has definitely become something I've learned to think about it.


----------



## elrohwen

There's one little dog in our class who is super consistent and really good (her owner is the most experienced agility person and trains at home a lot). So when Inca has problems with something, we all figure it's a lighting issue and not our dogs being weird. Haha. But in some cases it's super obvious, like that first tunnel.


----------



## CptJack

We actually had a low light tunnel thing tonight. Tunnels relatively straight and in the open were fine. The sharply curved, inside the shadow of the contact equipment, ones at close to 7? No. No way. Kylie stumbled a little but Molly just did. Not. See. Them. 

Also if I EVER think of taking all 3 girls to the same practice again, I'd like someone to come along and whack me in the back of the head for being an idiot.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Send them over to whack me on the head too. I entered Kris in the next trial along with Lucy which gives me 6 runs a day. I did take Lucy out of Steeplechase as figured that would be one too many.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> Send them over to whack me on the head too. I entered Kris in the next trial along with Lucy which gives me 6 runs a day. I did take Lucy out of Steeplechase as figured that would be one too many.


I entered Molly AND Bug AND Kylie in the next trial. 9 runs a day. Nine. It... might be okay? I mean I might scratch Molly entirely! At least it's spread out further than the 5 runs in an hour thing I did tonight. But seriously - way, way too much for a practice for me.

But I'm sure you and Kris will be all right. If not, well, it's learning and learning is good.


----------



## Sibe

Our first trial in a while, and we're going for everything. It's Halloween weekend so there is a costume contest. I'm going to be Princess Mononoke and Nali can go naked as Moro.


----------



## gingerkid

We had several major breakthroughs last night.

Ida zoomied - briefly - in the middle of a run. Didn't go off course, but just started bounding and like... frolicking.

She also started to figure things out on her own - when I said "tunnel" and she looked like she was going to totally refuse (she stopped at the entrance and backed up a step) but without me having to set her up again or repeat the cue, she plowed ahead.

And then if that wasn't enough, this dog who loves to play at home but who has never once interacted with a toy in class _took and tugged with a fleece tug_ after a run.

I think we're doing it guys. I really think we're doing it!


----------



## elrohwen

I'm so happy for you guys!! Sounds like she's really getting comfortable and confident with the class and with her job!


----------



## gingerkid

Oh and also - just realizing this now - she didn't make a single escape attempt, not even before the first run. I just hope it doesn't take her 8 months to get used to the new agility place when we start classes there in the new year, lol.


----------



## elrohwen

I'm really happy with Hazel's progress lately. Still lots of newbie mistakes from both of us (often me!) but I feel like we're always making steady progress. She was able to work off leash on a 1 jump exercise next to the adolescent lab that she loves. He even ran over to us once and both dogs wanted to play, but she pulled it together and kept working after he was back with his owner. She worked on 2x2 training without getting distracted and taking a lap around the ring with the toy after every rep. And she rocked the new teeter game we started (teeter placed across two tables). She's had quite a bit of teeter experience so I wasn't that surprised, but I was so impressed with her. She was flailing around before her turn because she was so excited to run it. She's such a good partner. And her toy issues in class seem to be totally resolved which is so exciting.


----------



## CptJack

I am really thrilled to bits at how well everyone here is doing and how dogs are coming along and coming together. I probably shouldn't say I'm proud since it has nothing to do with me, but I get all puffed up and happy at how well DF people do.

I, meanwhile, am just going to have a panic attack from now until the 31st. Fortunately a low level one, but christ I'm scared.


----------



## AsherLove

CptJack said:


> Something I meant to mention but didn't is that tunnels even in shadow, much less low lighting, can be really horrifying and hard for dogs. Which may explain her issue there, and certainly explains why Kylie occasionally outright misses a tunnel entry when we're in the horse barn. Deep shadows near bright lights are not great for visibility and the inside of those things is DARKER.


This is something I'm worried about with my 11 yr old poodle. As I mentioned in a post a week or 2 ago, he's starting to lose his vision and I could really tell he had issues going in to the darker colored tunnels and I could hear him 'feeling' his way through the bends in them. I'm afraid he'll be too blind to do them by the time we are ready to compete.


----------



## kadylady

Life's has been so busy that I never got around to posting the girls success at the end of September. We had our clubs 2 day CPE trial, which I was the secretary for, and they both did amazing! It was crazy trying to run 2 dogs and secretary but luckily my friend was helping me enter results and ran the girls in a few classes since her dog was injured. Zoey had a perfect weekend Q'ing in 9 out of 9 runs! She hasn't run that many run she in a weekend in a long time! Skye was 1 off course snooker tunnel away from a perfect weekend, Q'ing in 8 out of 9 classes! Best of all, she did all her teeters!! And Zoey did all her weaves! It was a really great weekend. 

Zoey has one day of CPE each month for the next 3 months and hopefully we are on track for her C-ATCH around March. Skye is doing disc in October and then AKC agility in November and December, hopefully we will finish Novice Standard and she only needs one more Open JWW Q too. 

Here are the videos, they are long because it's all 9 runs. 

Zoey





Skye


----------



## CptJack

Your girls look so, so good Kady! And I love your music choices!

I am amused. Every private with Kylie I have now involves: "Okay, so it probably doesn't matter which option you choose with Kylie but here's how it's going to be different with Molly, so - " And it is very, very useful stuff, so I kind of love it. 

In other news, I am better at getting off her butt. Now, if I can just convince myself I don't need to cross directly under her nose....


----------



## ireth0

Luna blew my mind in class this week. We were first doing figure 8's wrapping around two jumps, and she went so FAST. Like, full speed fast. And I was just flinging her back and forth, it was so amazing. 

Then we did a sequence with weaves, and the first time she missed the entrance but then got it and stayed in the whole way, with no lure at the end, so I rewarded the crap out of that because holy smokes. Then our 2nd time doing the course she even found the entrance AND stayed in the whole way! What the heck!

We also discovered that she -really- loves straight tunnels and basically shoots out of them like a cannon, lol. 

I also... think I'm going to enter her in a run for the fun match in Dec? Our instructor recommended we do a jumpers run and do it twice.


----------



## trainingjunkie

We finally did agility again! Very fun.


A couple runs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI1va1tZEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cY3sedq3pc


----------



## elrohwen

trainingjunkie said:


> We finally did agility again! Very fun.
> 
> 
> A couple runs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI1va1tZEM
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cY3sedq3pc


Look at that haul! Great job Team Whippet!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Thank you! We had 12 tries, so it's not as good as it looks! But still, it was a whole bunch of fun to be back out there. Lots of stuff to work on between now and our next attempt!


----------



## AsherLove

Got a new video of me and my 11 yr old mini poodle. This would have been his 14th agility class. I also learned that my pom who had surgery is cleared to continue doing agility after giving him some time to build muscle!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmTbKuq0_Y8


----------



## elrohwen

AsherLove said:


> Got a new video of me and my 11 yr old mini poodle. This would have been his 14th agility class. I also learned that my pom who had surgery is cleared to continue doing agility after giving him some time to build muscle!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmTbKuq0_Y8


Wow! That's awesome!


----------



## CptJack

He looks fantastic!


----------



## AsherLove

Thanks, you can tell how slow he goes through that dark tunnel with his vision problems though. It took about 4 seconds to go through while the lighter yellow one took about 3.


----------



## kadylady

CptJack said:


> Your girls look so, so good Kady! And I love your music choices!


Thank you!! I'm super happy with where both of them are at right now!


----------



## Lillith

So Ralphie and I are taking Beginning Agility again. Turns out we are the only ones in the class so far....He's getting lots of personal training! The other instructors spent the hour long class sitting in the office and complaining about how people don't email back, lol.


----------



## elrohwen

Lillith said:


> So Ralphie and I are taking Beginning Agility again. Turns out we are the only ones in the class so far....He's getting lots of personal training! The other instructors spent the hour long class sitting in the office and complaining about how people don't email back, lol.


That's awesome! I honestly don't know how people learn agility without at least some private lessons. You're going to learn so much more from that than in a class of 8 people where everybody gets a few seconds of work at a time. My favorite is splitting an hour between my two dogs, or with a friend.


----------



## Lillith

elrohwen said:


> That's awesome! I honestly don't know how people learn agility without at least some private lessons. You're going to learn so much more from that than in a class of 8 people where everybody gets a few seconds of work at a time. My favorite is splitting an hour between my two dogs, or with a friend.


Yeah, it's great. It's an hour long class where Ralphie just gets to do fun agility stuff, and he loves the instructor so he's just in heaven. He gets tired quicker, obviously, but then the instructors get to run their dogs for 10-15 minutes while Ralphie gets a bit of a rest. I just hope they don't cancel it because there's not enough people, but most of the instructors who are there for that class have their dogs in the Advanced/Competition Agility class that's right afterwards, so they're there anyways...


----------



## gingerkid

Lillith said:


> Yeah, it's great. It's an hour long class where Ralphie just gets to do fun agility stuff, and he loves the instructor so he's just in heaven. He gets tired quicker, obviously, but then the instructors get to run their dogs for 10-15 minutes while Ralphie gets a bit of a rest. I just hope they don't cancel it because there's not enough people, but most of the instructors who are there for that class have their dogs in the Advanced/Competition Agility class that's right afterwards, so they're there anyways...


That sounds just like our first beginner class! There were originally 3 of us in it, but one person dropped out after the first class, and the other person registered was one of the instructors who only came to half of the classes, meaning the other half of the time I was getting private lessons. It was really helpful for getting clarification on handling concepts (even if it wasn't enough time to get the physical skills down). I'll go back to it some day, but that day is not today.

In other news, Ida ran a full course (18 obstacles) with another dog in the arena. Not just in the room, but actually being held ringside in plain view (in someone's lap). While it did affect her performance (she was slow and hesitant), she still DID it. And she called off the other dog on the parts of the course where we had to run towards her. And she took a tug as a reward both mid-run (for stopped contact on the A-frame) and when she finished. Good thing too - all the cheese is making her faaaaaat, so it's nice to know that I can cut food rewards at class.


----------



## CptJack

Molly went to an agility trial. Molly did agility at the agility trial. Molly Qed 2 of her 3 runs and her NQ was the prettiest, smoothest, best jumpers run I've ever seen from her - and she did it at 5YPS. 

Kylie did a great job too. Her only NQ today was ME stepping over a chances line because I lost my balance and was too close. Otherwise, Regular Elite Qs that now count toward her NATCH, an Elite T'n'G Q at over 4 YPS (fastest she's ever done anything but tunnelers) and her first open weavers Q. 

Bug, erm. Got zoomies. Probably not taking Bug tomorrow because it's so hot, but I am so, so proud. 

The only dog that barked at the judge today was Kylie


----------



## CptJack

Oh and we are SO going to have startline issues. I AM going to be the person taking out of my dog without running for breaking the stay. Didn't QUITE happen today but I could *see* the desire. As well as crouching and staring and jolting at the line, anticipating release. Her contacts were GREAT though!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Just got the event schedule for our trial next weekend. I have six runs a day, four with Lucy and two with Kris each day. At least with Lucy jumping 10 inches and Kris jumping 22 inches, they are nicely spread out. Also, Kris is in Starters and Lucy is in Advanced in everything but Gamblers as this is the first time she will be doing that and Kris is only in Jumpers and Standard.

I am hoping Kris will do better than she did in the spring outside as this is our only indoor trial and all her training has been in the arena.


----------



## cookieface

Can I join in here even though we're very much beginners?


----------



## CptJack

cookieface said:


> Can I join in here even though we're very much beginners?


Of course.


----------



## CptJack

First trial, first Qs, first title. Go, baby-girl, go. 









Kylie also killed it. Just a little bit. And would have liked to have killed me for the picture taking.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> First trial, first Qs, first title. Go, baby-girl, go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kylie also killed it. Just a little bit. And would have liked to have killed me for the picture taking.


OMG these are awesome!! Congrats!! 

I have been so out of it for awhile. Have been trialing but not as often as I thought I would. We had a lot of issues going on since last spring. If it wasn't one thing it was another. Also our really good agility trainer stopped doing her class so only have one class per week to train and in the yard. However even with all of that I "think" things are finally starting to come together. Belle has really been listening well lately and I have been able to pull her off of sucker obstacles. Lately most of the errors have been my fault. Have one trial coming up on Nov 12th and one on the 28th, will just do one day at each of them. So hoping we can get our AKC Excellent Jumpers title at one of these, we just need one more Q.


----------



## ireth0

We did a course last class and it was so great. Luna was FAST. And I really felt like we were in sync in terms of her cuing well off of me. There were some weird/not obvious obstacle combos which we got all right after everyone else did a particular one incorrectly (granted we had the advantage of going last, but still- they're all more advanced than us so I'll take the wins where I can get them). I'm also (slowly) getting better and more consistent with my handling, which creates a clearer picture for her which I think also has been helping the whole situation. 

Also had some great trades/retrieves of the ball after rewarding, so that was cool too. (I finally found her 2nd ball)

I'm also cautiously optimistic about the whole agility thing for us? I feel like most of the time, I already know what I've done wrong when we made a mistake vs typically others have no idea and the trainer has to explain to them. So it's mainly a case of me getting myself together and just practice.


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> First trial, first Qs, first title. Go, baby-girl, go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kylie also killed it. Just a little bit. And would have liked to have killed me for the picture taking.


Yayay! So excited for you guys!


----------



## cookieface

CptJack said:


> First trial, first Qs, first title. Go, baby-girl, go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kylie also killed it. Just a little bit. And would have liked to have killed me for the picture taking.


This is awesome!


----------



## Sibe

Had a great weekend at NADAC!!! Denali and I earned 5 titles, and completed her NADAC Novice Versatility Award.


----------



## cookieface

Sibe said:


> Had a great weekend at NADAC!!! Denali and I earned 5 titles, and completed her NADAC Novice Versatility Award.


Congratulations!!!

Meanwhile, Katie has forgotten that she knows how to weave. Ugh, something else for us to work on. At least she has fun doing it.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

We got to play around on the agility course during break at the pumi nationals! (we had permission) I also have permission from the photographers who took them to use these pics:


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> Had a great weekend at NADAC!!! Denali and I earned 5 titles, and completed her NADAC Novice Versatility Award.


Wow, congrats!!


----------



## gingerkid

There is an agility fun match next weekend. Am I nuts for wanting to enter even though we don't have very good contacts, don't have weaves, and don't have a teeter? And if I am nuts and DO enter, do I want to do just Jumpers, or do a couple standard runs for the contact equipment? How many runs is too many runs?


----------



## CptJack

It's a fun match. It's there for you to play with the equipment, do what you can and gain experience. I would absolutely enter jumpers and standard, and do the bits you can. I typically do 3 or 4, but ultimately it depends on you, your dog, and how many people are there and how long it lasts. And how much of the courses you do. Ours are split up so you basically 'buy' up to 2 minutes of ring time per run. So for my 4 runs I am getting 8-ish minutes in the ring to work on what I want.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

We finally agilitied after quite a few months of doing other things. We were 5 for 5 which is great.. but I'm most happy that weaves seemed to improve. The first weaves took 2 tries. The second run that had weaves were a non issue at all. Her overall control gets better each time as well and I couldn't be more happy with her.

Here is our last run of the day.. since I didn't get video of our best run. She can sure fly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QeS7Ez9l3Y


----------



## cookieface

Class Friday night: We didn't do too bad with the actual courses - a few flubs, but we were successful with the weaves. At the end since only about half the class members were there, we did a fun tunnels and jumps only run. Katie was super distracted by everything, so she got put back in her crate to (I hope) discourage her from making her own fun when we're supposed to be working.

Our club is hosting a fun run in January that I may try if we make some progress in working together.


----------



## ireth0

Do the fun matches you guys! The woman who runs the BC in our class was telling me on their first fun match they just went into the ring and played fetch the whole time. She just wanted to give him exposure to the environment and practice having his attention and doing an activity in the ring. 

Our class this week we did a practice gamblers course. It wasn't terrible... (the gamble wasn't realistic for us but aside from that we got 30 points!)

Except for when Luna jumped -at- a jump bar like obviously landing on it was the thing to do. Subsequently when chasing her ball reward she smashed through a jump bar with her forehead without skipping a beat. Just -BAM- right on through.

This week we have a rental at the facility. Jumps were on my agenda to work on, lol.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, seriously, do not worry about feeling the need to accomplish any agility at all at the fun match. You get ring time. Go. Be with the dog. Hell, go in the ring and play or work on some impulse control or both. Think of it as shared ring rental time. You get to do what you want. Being there is more important than doing agility.


----------



## cookieface

Thanks for the fun run advice. Guess if I can embarrass myself in front of classmates every week I can embarrass myself in front of a larger group once. lol

Katie and I had class last night and it was a bit of a disaster. I eventually was able to move in the right direction at the right time, but she was super distracted and interested in everything except me. I asked our instructor what she thought: if it was my poor handling, if she was stressed, more interested in the surroundings.... Her answer was, "yes." Not especially helpful. She did mention that if direction isn't provided fast enough dogs can check out because they don't know what to do and hinted that that could be what's going on.

But, I plan to work on some of the engagement activities that were suggested and see what happens.


----------



## gingerkid

So we're not doing the fun match tomorrow, because I forgot that I have tickets to a cheese-making workshop early in the afternoon that conflicts. -_-

How do you find out about fun matches? Because the last two that I've been interested in attending haven't panned out, but I have also only found out about them a week in advance?


----------



## CptJack

There are only two groups who do things like fun matches:
One is my agility club. It's on the website and announced there, and people on FB are usually discussing it. 

The other is a slightly further away AKC group. They tend to do demos, announce on their FB and that includes the cross over to the NADAC people. Sometimes she actively invites us. 

Not very useful but I guess the base answer is 'internet' and keeping tabs on things and people.


----------



## CptJack

Barring that, you might ask whoever is running your class/group about email lists, facebook pages, or just to let you know when she finds out. Or who *hosts* the fun matches so you can get to them directly.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I wish we had Fun Matches in our area or even close by. I am going to try something different with Bonnie when she is old enough to compete. I am going to run her FEO a few times at the trials at first. You can then take in toys (not treats) and you do not have to run a full course. She is 18 months old in Feb. and March is our first trial. It is an indoor trial so I think a really good one to start and I may change my mind depending on how she trains over the next three months but if I feel she is not quite ready I think this may be a good way to start.

I am just hoping she does not grow any more as right now she is borderline height to jump 22 inches, if she grows even a little she will have to jump 26 inches as she is just under the 21 inch cut-off now at 15 months.


----------



## cookieface

gingerkid said:


> So we're not doing the fun match tomorrow, because I forgot that I have tickets to a cheese-making workshop early in the afternoon that conflicts. -_-
> 
> How do you find out about fun matches? Because the last two that I've been interested in attending haven't panned out, but I have also only found out about them a week in advance?


Sorry you're not able to go. Do you follow local training / agility clubs on FB? Or visit their web sites? Our club has an events list on the main page that includes trials, seminars, workshops, etc.


----------



## CptJack

My brag for the weekend is Kylie did a jumpbox - with me outside the box for the entire thing. That is *huge*, especially given the amount of distance we need to learn and use if we're getting anywhere in NADAC.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> My brag for the weekend is Kylie did a jumpbox - with me outside the box for the entire thing. That is *huge*, especially given the amount of distance we need to learn and use if we're getting anywhere in NADAC.


what is a jumpbox?


----------



## CptJack

Jumps set like this that you get through in some order. This is an example of a box drill so there's a lot, but what we did was mid course and basically just 1-4. Without getting into the middle of it/with layering two other jumps between us/the box to make it happen.


----------



## dogsule

well that is awesome!!


----------



## dogsule

*********************deleted****************************


----------



## Sibe

Does AKC transfer MACH points to PACH? I feel like they don't, but does anyone know?

Denali has only a few MACH points and I'm fine sacrificing them if AKC doesn't transfer. I'm planning to drop her to 16" after this trial on Thanksgiving weekend. She's doing fine at 20" (she's 21" at withers) but I've been feeling like 16" would be better. Less impact, less strain, she's 6 1/2 years old and is a bit straight in the rear and I want to make sure she stays healthy and doesn't start breaking down.


----------



## ireth0

I realized I hadn't posted these here.

Last week we worked on driving a straight line over jumps. Here are the videos.

This one is entitled; Luna Smash.


----------



## cookieface

I posted on my other thread (engagement games), but wanted to share here, too. Katie and I had a great class last night. We started the first course with the jump sequence in the middle of the course - she loves to jump (so immediate fun for her) and there were a few handling skills I wanted to practice. When she was successful at that, we started the course at the beginning and we did amazingly well! The second course was a little more difficult (some super odd angles and sharp turns), but we did it and she stayed with me!

Apparently the secret to our success is that I need to have confidence and just run the course like I know what I'm doing and she'll do what she needs to do. I feel so much better about our progress after last night.

We have at least one and probably two weeks off, so I want to practice some handling and work on tug with her. Sometime in December, our instructor is planning a "handling skills" night, so that will be super helpful. In January there's a fun run and I'm feeling better about participating.


----------



## cookieface

What do you do when you have breaks in classes? We have (probably) two weeks off and I'd like to use the time productively. I have some ideas, but can always use more.


----------



## gingerkid

Continue building value in tug, and then short exercises that don't need a lot of space so I can do them in my living room, that I can do with one small piece of equipment, like working on backside jumps and tables from different angles and increasing distance. Also just basic obedience/trick training to keep her mind sharp.

My plan over Christmas is to work more on teeter exercises (I need a bigger board though) and finally build some weaves.


----------



## Sibe

We had a great weekend at an AKC trial! Friday we Q'd in MAS JWW and got 13th place, same on Saturday. NQ both MAS STD because after hitting her weaves in JWW she decided she was done weaving. Today we ran Standard first and Q'd, and again got 13th place. Then we ran JWW and... we Q'd!!!! Our very first QQ!!!! And a 17th place on the JWW haha. To make it even sweeter, the judge is one that Denali gets spooked by, I'm not really sure why, I don't find him particularly intrusive, though he is a bit bouncy and has big fun energy so maybe that's what puts her on edge? (And I really am not placing any blame or fault on the judge, he's very nice and I like him). But two years ago at our Siberian Husky national in San Diego she couldn't stand him. She was blowing contacts, wouldn't weave at all, tons of stress sniffing, a mess. I thought those runs would be the last we ever did because at that point she was so stressed and hating trials. It has taken a long, long time and consistent practice with our classmates and instructor gradually getting weirder and crazier during our classes for Denali to be able to have confidence when running with them on course. So we had this "scary judge" on Saturday and today, and only once on the top of the A-frame did she pause for a little side-eye at him. Otherwise she didn't seem bothered by him at all! I'm still planning to drop to Preferred and work toward a PACH instead of a MACH.

I cried. I was so happy I cried.

STD
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10103204808245573/

JWW
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10103204818934153/


----------



## elrohwen

I just signed Watson up for Hazel's class, starting early January. This may have been a poor drunken decision. lol



cookieface said:


> What do you do when you have breaks in classes? We have (probably) two weeks off and I'd like to use the time productively. I have some ideas, but can always use more.


I pretty much just work on toy play with 1-3 jump exercises.


----------



## AsherLove

My 11 yr old mini poodle is still doing great in his classes.
My (just) 8 month old st poodle had his very first pre-agility class today. Worked on toy play, circles, 'around', 'start line' (which is tough since he's a show dog and doesn't have many basic commands yet), platform hind end awareness ( which he's pretty good at as we have practiced that at home), tunnel, and tire.
He was a bit slow on his 'around's even though we have done some work on it. I was surprised by his toy play enthusiasm. Not that he doesn't like toys but he sometimes can be lazy about it, I could even use it as a reward for the tunnels (which he likes doing tunnels anyways). 
I'm currently going to work on the 'start line' on the right side of me that way there shouldn't be confusion with his show stuff. He could do a standing stay at the start line but I prefer a sit, it just seems more solid and less easily 'broken' than a stand.
Tomorrow my pom starts back into agility after his break due to injury/surgery (not agility related). 
so now I have agility tuesdays, wednesdays, and thursdays! All with different dogs!


----------



## CptJack

Molly is getting private agility lessons. I still have a lesson a week but which dog I take doesn't matter, so I'm going to switch them. This is the biggest relief you can imagine, because holy HECK I need eyes on, someone to laugh at me, and help.


----------



## kadylady

Two weeks ago the girls and I had a great weekend! Friday Zoey picked up her 9th and 10th CPE Standard Q's! We need 10 for her CATCH so we are done with the Standard class! We need 16 more Q's in other classes. 






Skye had a stellar Saturday, exceeded all of my goals for the day. Lucky for us the Time To Beat course had 2 passes over the teeter so we got extra practice there. She picked up her second Novice Standard Q and we had a perfect Open JWW run to finish that title! On to Excellent with the baby!! Seriously, she's blowing me away!


----------



## crysania

I haven't posted in awhile! My little man (Ben) is doing great! We're working on contacts in some classes and sequences in another. He's super fast and I'm finding it hard to keep up with him or time things right. It's a whole new world running this dog! He's coming along SO well with his contacts. He's mostly got 2on/2off position down though he does it by laying down on the dog walk instead of standing. I really need to video tape him in class soon!


----------



## gingerkid

Okay so last night in Starters Courses class, it was only me and one other lady and we tried running other people's dogs. She insisted that her dog wouldn't run for other people because he is stubborn and don't give a poop about people... I put on my stupidest happy voice and played with him a bit at the start line, and then... we did the course. Not totally clean, but just as clean as I run it with Ida, and our instructor ran it after with her dog and had the same problem so I'm going to blame the course.

Then, of course, when it was the other lady's turn to run Ida, Ida was having none of it - she was okay doing the obstacles on the near half of the course, but there was a magic line that made her turn around and run back to me, so I guess I'm going to be looking for ways to build independence/distance in the future.

Oh, and also? We're doing a fun run on Dec 11. I am terrified and also really hopeful - Ida's been really good about working in unfamiliar places this month, which I was really concerned about being a barrier to trialing - but I don't want to be too hopeful and then be crushed if the trial environment, and/or having to drive further than normal, is too stressful for her. I'm really glad one of my friends, who has trialed before and also knows Ida and her problems, signed up for runs with her dogs.


----------



## elrohwen

We started a new session of classes last night with 2 new dogs. One is a 3.8lb chi and he is so fricking adorable. I'm going to stash him in my coat some day. He's just the happiest little thing.

We're working on serpentines right now which is fun. I feel like we're mostly getting it. Hazel's contacts are also coming along really well. I think we're finally at the stage where she has a solid understanding/body awareness and we can start proofing more instead of worrying whether she'll stick it or not. Before she understood, but she would be going too fast down the Aframe and miss it, or end up with one back foot off the dogwalk. 

Weaves feel like they are taking an eternity. I need to practice more, but it's so dark outside in the evening. Oh well, I guess I don't really have a timeline so it doesn't matter. And most people in class are at the same spot as us.


----------



## cookieface

We've pretty much done nothing other than work on tug (which is improving) and register for a focus class that starts in January. Maybe this weekend we'll work on weaves since she acts as though she's never seen weave poles when we approach our set.


----------



## CptJack

I have a trial at the end of this month and it's so strange because I've already written 2016 off and am looking toward 2017, but this one is split right on the line and kind of floating in the middle of nowhere, agility wise (haven't had a trial since last month, won't have another until March) and I just... I can't care. All of my attention and focus is going toward getting Molly and Kylie ready to tackle spring trials. 

To that end, we're working quite a bit, doing privates (and will continue to) with a heavy focus on jumping speed and distance for Kylie and just some basic technical stuff with Molly - her obstacle performance is fine, but sometimes reading crosses is rough and discriminations are iffy and keeping up with her and figuring out my timing needs to happen. This is largely because we've had very little experience on full courses, but. Mostly just kind of floating toward that January trial and realizing it'll be Molly's second and it was, at most, my hope for it to be her first.


----------



## dogsule

****************deleted***************************


----------



## crysania

Finally a video! We did a special class focusing on turns today. This is a Jaako turn. I was so proud of how well Ben did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMdhruM4taQ


----------



## kadylady

We had our club's big end of year AKC cluster show this past weekend. It's one of my favorite shows but man am I exhausted by the end! The girls did great though. We don't run on dirt much and Skye has never run in this location so I wasn't sure how she would do. She totally nailed everything, blew my expectations out of the water and was a ROCKSTAR! We ran 8 runs over 3 days and Q'd in 7!! She finished Novice Standard and Novice FAST, picked up 2 Open Standard Q's, and picked up 2 Excellent JWW Q's! She really ran fabulous, environment didn't phase her (except for some minor bird distractions lol) and the best part was in every run I felt like I handled the way I wanted to, rather than chickening out and playing it safe, I got in the handling moves I wanted most of the time, which is a big step for me with Skye. 

Zoey had some really great Excellent Standard runs with 1 small mistake in each that kept us away from a Q. I only entered her in Standard and FAST. Her Friday run was beautiful, perfect weaves, but took an off course, which doesn't happen with her because she's never moving fast enough! So that was our best NQ run ever! Saturday she had another pretty run but pretended not to see the weaves. Sunday was a trickier course but we handled it perfectly until the second to last obstacle she popped out of the weaves at 10. Unfortunately she got picked up and carried out because we have worked really hard on this weave popping issue and if I let her move on from stuff like that in the ring it only gets worse. I really hated to pull her after the rest of the run being so great and it being our last run of the weekend but she knows and we've worked hard on weaves. She did pick up one Open FAST Q, would have been 2 and a title but I stepped over the line too soon. Overall I was very happy with how she ran, she ran fast and confident all weekend in an environment that is very hard for her. 

Here's some videos:

Skye Friday





Skye Sat





Skye Sun





Zoey Standard runs


----------



## elrohwen

Hazel is hurt so Watson went to her class. I signed up him up for the same class in January, so I figured this would be our test and if we crashed and burned I could still back out.

But he was awesome! This is his first time in a group class of any kind in 6 months (where he was distracted and was not able to work off leash), first group agility class in 3 years (that was a disaster). It's the first time he's done much agility since private lessons ended 8 months ago. It was also only his 3rd time in this building (second since it burned down and they rebuilt and replaced the turf). 

He was great though. Really engaged and excited. The stuff we worked on was actually perfect for him which helped. We worked on backsides followed by a post turn, front cross, and serp from both sides. Basically repetive handling stuff, and he loves repetition. He's also much much faster than he used to be thanks to the private lessons, but he takes direction well and follows my handling much better than Hazel. Basically when he's engaged and in the game and not running off to sniff, he's really really fun. 

My little dude is growing up. <3


----------



## gingerkid

Question:

We're taking a class that's essentially jumping grids. We did really great on the first day, but I've run into a problem. When doing grids that requiring lengthening stride, Ida instead slows down a tiny bit and instead of collecting and putting the extra effort in, she takes a second stride. We tried upping the reward, me running with her, and restrained starts and nothing really worked. I suggested trying running starts but the instructor requires her grids to be stationary starts... Any other suggestions before I have to talk to her about getting an exception for the stationary starts?


----------



## elrohwen

I would decrease spacing of the jumps to where she is successful, then gradually increase again.


----------



## elrohwen

How are you rewarding? Stationary toy or food target at the end?


----------



## gingerkid

See that would be what I try too... Ida's the smallest dog in the class (barely), but the instructor either hasn't thought of it (really? She's competed at worlds multiple times) or that just isn't her style or maybe it's the class setting... IDK. It's kind of been frustrating but maybe I just need to be my dog's champion better.


----------



## elrohwen

gingerkid said:


> See that would be what I try too... Ida's the smallest dog in the class (barely), but the instructor either hasn't thought of it (really? She's competed at worlds multiple times) or that just isn't her style or maybe it's the class setting... IDK. It's kind of been frustrating but maybe I just need to be my dog's champion better.


That's weird that it didn't come up. I would try with throwing a toy or running or whatever first, but if that didn't work I would start shortening the grid. She's probably putting in another stride because she's lacking confidence that she can jump that far, but if you make it a little easier she'll work it out. I could see why she would want to set up the grid and not move it for every dog, but at some point that's the next logical step.

Have you done Susan Salo's set point exercise? That's usually the first step people do before moving on to grids. That would probably help her get going from a stationary start.


----------



## gingerkid

elrohwen said:


> That's weird that it didn't come up. I would try with throwing a toy or running or whatever first, but if that didn't work I would start shortening the grid. She's probably putting in another stride because she's lacking confidence that she can jump that far, but if you make it a little easier she'll work it out. I could see why she would want to set up the grid and not move it for every dog, but at some point that's the next logical step.
> 
> Have you done Susan Salo's set point exercise? That's usually the first step people do before moving on to grids. That would probably help her get going from a stationary start.


Not that I know of, but after looking into it I think so? I don't know. The very first day we started with jumping over evenly spaced jumps based on the dog's final competition jumping height; we started with one jump, then added a jump each 1-2 successful repetitions until the dog was doing 5 jumps in a row successfully (I think the instructor called it a bounce grid?).

Times like this make me wish I had better flooring in the basement... with 4 jumps I could actually do jump grids and work on this kind of stuff at home.


----------



## cookieface

We were back at class after two weeks off and it was good. As usual, I was the weak link. The instructor brought out the broad jump (which no one in class remembers seeing before, but she insists we had). Katie had no trouble jumping over - in both directions. It wasn't until we were actually running the course that she balked and decided she needed to walk over them <--- this is where I come in. The course section was tunnel > jump > broad jump > jump. I paused waiting for her to get out of the tunnel, she slowed down and wasn't sure what to do. Once I was reminded to keep running, she did great.


----------



## elrohwen

gingerkid said:


> Not that I know of, but after looking into it I think so? I don't know. The very first day we started with jumping over evenly spaced jumps based on the dog's final competition jumping height; we started with one jump, then added a jump each 1-2 successful repetitions until the dog was doing 5 jumps in a row successfully (I think the instructor called it a bounce grid?).
> 
> Times like this make me wish I had better flooring in the basement... with 4 jumps I could actually do jump grids and work on this kind of stuff at home.


I don't think your basement would be big enough for grids anyway. Usually you need 30-60ft to fit all the jumps in there and have enough space for take off and finishing. 

From your description, that sounds more like Suzanne Clothier's old jumping book. It basically works on grids of 5 jumps spaced fairly close together. I worked on that with Watson one summer to get him more comfortable with jumping above 12". Susan Salo's program is a lot more varied and I think more suited to agility (Clothier's program was just for jumping in general with a focus on obedience). She has jump grids to train everything, and sometimes you're using a jump plus a jump bump, sometimes 3 jumps on a curve, etc. 

The set point exercise involves a jump bump or pole on the ground, where the dog's toes are set up right at the bump. Then the jump itself is ~4-5ft beyond that and they need to bounce to that jump. That's the very first exercise Salo does before moving on to other grids. 

I'd really recommend Salo's book if you want to try stuff at home (at least once everything isn't snow covered). There is a DVD which I rented once, and it's very useful to show jump mechanics, but the workbook lays everything out. https://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm/product/4033/jumping-grid-workbook.htm


----------



## gingerkid

elrohwen said:


> I don't think your basement would be big enough for grids anyway. Usually you need 30-60ft to fit all the jumps in there and have enough space for take off and finishing.
> 
> From your description, that sounds more like Suzanne Clothier's old jumping book. It basically works on grids of 5 jumps spaced fairly close together. I worked on that with Watson one summer to get him more comfortable with jumping above 12". Susan Salo's program is a lot more varied and I think more suited to agility (Clothier's program was just for jumping in general with a focus on obedience). She has jump grids to train everything, and sometimes you're using a jump plus a jump bump, sometimes 3 jumps on a curve, etc.
> 
> The set point exercise involves a jump bump or pole on the ground, where the dog's toes are set up right at the bump. Then the jump itself is ~4-5ft beyond that and they need to bounce to that jump. That's the very first exercise Salo does before moving on to other grids.
> 
> I'd really recommend Salo's book if you want to try stuff at home (at least once everything isn't snow covered). There is a DVD which I rented once, and it's very useful to show jump mechanics, but the workbook lays everything out. https://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm/product/4033/jumping-grid-workbook.htm


The open part of our basement is pretty close to the size of the ring where our jumps class is being held, so I'm pretty sure we'll have enough room to do jump grids (it's fully finished, but only half of it is actually divided into rooms). At least, once we get all of my in-laws previous possessions cleaned out of it. -_-

I'll look for Susan Salo's materials. And if I decide to set up jumps in the basement, I might even buy a copy.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our Agility training has come to a full stop as it has been too cold. It has been -25C at night and not much warmer in the daytime. We also have about 10 inches of snow so can't do anything outside till spring. We do have a rubber matted smaller place that is heated but not big enough to really run any Agility but will start using it now for other things as we have a tunnel, weaves, table and one of those trainers for contacts. Will be great for Bonnie who has just started doing some Agility. We have been lucky this year to have been able to do as much training as we have.


----------



## CptJack

I posted a video of a practice *really* not going well with Molly on facebook because it's real, you know? And she was happy. 

Then I realized both courses were elite and suddenly that 'lol, she knocked like three bars and spun in some circles sometimes' on the jumpers course suddenly bothered me a lot less. 

In fact I'm now pretty danged proud.

It was this one: 





ETA:



Here's Molly's. Is it perfect or even good? No, not really, but all things considered, y'all....


----------



## gingerkid

Sorry for the spam, those of you who've seen this on FB a billion times already, but:






Scaredy dog is doing the scary thing!


----------



## Lillith

gingerkid said:


> Sorry for the spam, those of you who've seen this on FB a billion times already, but:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scaredy dog is doing the scary thing!


Oh, hey, that's a neat little setup for a practice teeter! I might steal this idea! Duh, why didn't I think of that, lol?


----------



## gingerkid

Lillith said:


> Oh, hey, that's a neat little setup for a practice teeter! I might steal this idea! Duh, why didn't I think of that, lol?


Necessity is the mother of invention (or whatever). She was pretty scared of all movement to start with, and there was just no way that I'd be able to teach her to teeter in a reasonable amount of time without working on it at home, so I basically threw it together with materials that I had on hand. Luckily my husband and FIL used to work in construction, and we inherited all of the left-over construction materials, including a ton of random bits of wood, with the house. I like that this set-up enables me to increase the height by 1-2" at a time, depending on what kind of boards I have around.

Also, if you're stacking pieces of wood, a layer of towel between them provides more stability. Without the towels, we had a few problems with the plank slipping sideways.


----------



## Sibe

Denali is the #14 Siberian Husky this year in AKC agility. HOLY CUSS. We had a great year but wowowowowowowwww!!! So proud of her. I really thought our last trial ever would be 2 years ago when we went to Nationals. She was so, so stressed it just wasn't fair to trial anymore. We've worked super hard after moving to Colorado in helping her gain confidence with having judges and jump setters and now she's rocking it. You go, girl.


----------



## cookieface

Sibe said:


> Denali is the #14 Siberian Husky this year in AKC agility. HOLY CUSS. We had a great year but wowowowowowowwww!!! So proud of her. I really thought our last trial ever would be 2 years ago when we went to Nationals. She was so, so stressed it just wasn't fair to trial anymore. We've worked super hard after moving to Colorado in helping her gain confidence with having judges and jump setters and now she's rocking it. You go, girl.


That's great! Congratulations to both of you.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Finally able to get back into the arena and do some training on last Saturday and Wednesday and will go again on the 24th. It has finally warmed up to zero C (30F) so cold but not bad if you keep moving. Lucy was so happy to run around where there was no snow that she did several laps of the arena, just happy to run, then trained really well. Our first trial isn't till March but hate not being able to train twice a week because of the weather, besides which the dogs really miss it. I have been working on Bonnie (my Golden Aussie Doodle) as she is over a year now so can start to get serious. She does all the obstacles except the weaves but is starting on them now. Still working on the 2o2o but she usually gets it.


----------



## CptJack

I have a trial in a week. 

It's an indoor trial, I have done nothing since the end of October - wait, no, I think each dog had *A* lesson in that time, and we had a single practice. Otherwise? Nada. Fortunately it's an indoor trial which my dogs don't do well with, and it's this weird floating trial that somehow seems like a spare in my head. So basically it's 'New Year's party with dog people' and I"m treating it accordingly. I can't even work up the energy to be nervous about Molly. I'll report back with results, regardless but meh.


----------



## CptJack

Novice Regular and Q.

Kylie also broke her previous YPS record and did some neat things.


----------



## CptJack

3 of Kylie's runs, then a repeat of Molly's thing at the end. Kylie did some REALLY cool stuff.


----------



## cookieface

CptJack said:


> Novice Regular and Q.
> 
> Kylie also broke her previous YPS record and did some neat things.





CptJack said:


> 3 of Kylie's runs, then a repeat of Molly's thing at the end. Kylie did some REALLY cool stuff.


You look great!!! Love your weaves! 

I skipped our agility fun run because of club politics. I'm a little disappointed because I think Katie would have had a blast, but a little relieved because I think it could have been awkward for me.


----------



## CptJack

cookieface said:


> You look great!!! Love your weaves!
> 
> I skipped our agility fun run because of club politics. I'm a little disappointed because I think Katie would have had a blast, but a little relieved because I think it could have been awkward for me.


Let me tell you. Molly has issues and there's a lot of agility she absolutely does not know/get, but my GOD that dog can weave. She has really benefited from my having the experience of having taught a dog before (...poor Kylie).

I'm sorry you missed the fun match - and the reason. What a miserable thing to happen.


----------



## kadylady

Congrats CptJack!!! Way to go Molly!! So amazing to see you competing with her, that must be such an amazing feeling for you knowing what you two had to overcome together. And Kylie is looking fantastic!! So much congrats!


----------



## CptJack

kadylady said:


> Congrats CptJack!!! Way to go Molly!! So amazing to see you competing with her, that must be such an amazing feeling for you knowing what you two had to overcome together. And Kylie is looking fantastic!! So much congrats!


Thank you. 

She has come so, so far and I have learned so much. 





Both days for her - chopped up in places because it wouldn't fit the music otherwise and I kept the good bits.

And this dog. Guys, this dog. Still, always, the dog of a lifetime for me. 





Total Q count wasn't bad. 2 Regular, 2 TNG, and a Weavers for Kylie. 2 Regular and Tunnelers for Molly. Really not the important things i came out of this trial with.


----------



## Sibe

I emailed our agility instructor. Whenever there is an opening for Kaytu, I'm pulling Bobb out of classes and starting K. Bobb has kind of reached his maximum in classes. He can do all the obstacles and run sequences, his weaves are nice (not perfect but excellent considering he's an 11 almost 12 year old 4.5 lb 2-legged nugget), and I don't think he can really get much more out of classes. The things he likes most we can keep doing at home (he likes barrels, "out!") and honestly I'm not entirely comfortable with how much he tends to slip going through tunnels and the rare plops over jumps. He does really really well and there is a little more risk on the risk vs reward scale for him. We'll stlll do things at home but I'm ready to pull him when K can get a spot. Kaytu is so fun to work with and I really want to give her a shot!


----------



## CptJack

The difference a few years can make. The first one popped up on facebook memories. Also reminds me that she started classes (the time that stuck) almost exactly 3 years ago.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Unfortunately our setting up and running any courses has come to an almost standstill. The arena we use is not heated and as it is getting down to -20C (Below zero F) at night and not much warmer during the day, the arena is just too cold. We do have an upstairs room that has rubber mats and is heated that we will be able to use till it gets warmer. Not big enough to run any courses but we can set up short runs as we do have a tunnel, teeter, table, weaves and some jumps to work with. We did cancel today as the temperature really dropped down last night but will go in on Saturday.


----------



## cookieface

Very impressive progress, CptJack!

Our instructor sent a reminder that class resumes this Friday. Apparently in our next class (that starts next Friday), "we will be working on, backside sends to jumps and a forced front cross." I have no idea what any of that means, but I'm going in with a positive attitude.


----------



## Lillith

cookieface said:


> Very impressive progress, CptJack!
> 
> Our instructor sent a reminder that class resumes this Friday. Apparently in our next class (that starts next Friday), "we will be working on, backside sends to jumps and a forced front cross." I have no idea what any of that means, but I'm going in with a positive attitude.


Lol, that's my issue, too. I have no idea what any of the terms mean. "Make my dog do that thing but have him go this way? Sure, whatever. Oh, it has a name?"


----------



## gingerkid

It's amazing what a couple weeks off can do; we did almost zero of anything over the holidays, and in class this week Ida was a rocket, it was amazing. We started doing set-points; started with 16" which Ida can do but has had problems with before and she absolutely flew over it, so we tried 20" - and she didn't even seem to notice. We have one more class in this set and then we're going to take a break to try Rally, I think (just waiting to hear back from the instructor). During our "break" we'll keep working on the teeter and I'm going to try to borrow one. Maybe with more set-point can even get up to her competition height of 22"! I know she can physically jump that high (she does it every day), but something about doing it over a jump kind of freaks her out.


----------



## ireth0

Well Luna and I had out very first fun match over the holidays! I wasn't sure if we were going to be able to make it but we did!

She's a bit all over the place as it's a new experience, new location, etc. But our trainer said it was great because she was happy and focused and able to follow direction and stuff. I definitely felt like we were the worst of the 'newbies' group, but oh well!

Oh yes, and featuring zoomies!

ETA: Wins for us were:
-We didn't knock any bars
-No pee/poop in the ring
-We went fast!






(Also I can't help being like "Check out that stack!" when I was using the treats to reposition her, lmao)


----------



## Sibe

Our first T2B run! (Start video at 0:15 for her start, first bit is just her sitting there as I walk away). Got 7 points. Started with a perfect, big lead out. Got a Jaakko turn to keep her away from that tunnel.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103320581849343

ETA Her leadout phases. 1- Watching me. 2- Upright, ready to launch. 3- Launch! 4- DERP. 5- Loving her improved extension, been working more on proper warmup, stretches, and cooldown and it's showing.









Some time after this run I started to get really nauseous. Figured if we didn't get our Standard run I'd just leave, but if we got it I'd try to stay for our Jumpers and try for a QQ. When I was near the gate for our Standard run I had to sit down in the dirt. I figured I'd leave after our Standard no matter how it went. Two dogs before us, I shoved Denali's leash in my friend's hands, asked the gate steward to move us to the bottom of the run order, then ran to the bathroom for a round of dry heaving. Came back and waited another ~5 dogs then took Denali in the ring. We made it about halfway before I got so lightheaded my arms were tingling. I excused us and put her leash on and sat in the chair. Had to sit there for about 10 minutes. Someone brought me Tums. Finally was able to get up and make it back to the crate, then called my husband to pick up my brother and come get me (so I wouldn't have to leave my car). Fortunately this trial site was only about 45 minutes away! I finally threw up on the way home (into a grocery bag, ew) and have been feeling better ever since. I know it's stupid but I feel bad for Denali for having to stop our run and pull her. I can't tell her that stopping the run wasn't her fault (I've never done that as punishment; I have called her out of the ring when she has zoomies or when she had to potty though) and I had no energy or ability to praise and act like it was the actual end of our run. I really thought I could make it. Stubborn self.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Looks like Luna had fun! She will definitely be awesome with time! 

Sibe - Wow, awesome! It's always fun to watch a Husky compete. They all have that zoomie thing going on. She did GREAT.


----------



## Sibe

She had zoomies in class and at trials until she was about 2. Then found her brain again!


----------



## CptJack

I actually pulled Kylie from the ring TWICE in the last trial - for agility related reasons. I never thought it was something I'd do with her, and it wasn't punishment so much as me refusing to stress both of us about a thing she wasn't getting - but it was pretty surreal. For one thing, I always assumed she'd be too soft not to take it as serious punishment either way. For another, I always assumed I'd be too flustered to be able to go "You know what? Forget it." and walk away without being embarrassed. 

Strange milestone, but I'm pretty proud of it.


----------



## CptJack

...Molly has started frustration barking her way through agility. The frustration being I make her do shit like stay at the startline and not wildly run. I may throttle her.


----------



## gingerkid

I got some weaves - yay!

Unfortunately I have run into a snag. We have previously been working on entries with two posts, but now that I have the full set I can't send her from more than halfway down the set of poles - on both sides she ignores the start and enters after the first two poles. I'm going to do some more proofing entries with the two posts, but I guess I have two questions:

1) is there anything else I can do to fix this? (I tried adjusting my foot and body position but it didn't seem to make a difference.)

2) is it even too early to worry about entries or should I just work on getting her to actually be able to weave and then add entries?

ETA: Here's a video. We're using the channel method right now.


----------



## cookieface

Katie and I have our first class since December 9 tonight. Hope we don't mess up too bad.

Yay for getting weaves, Gingerkid. Wish I had some helpful advice, but weaves are our weakness, too. I will say I wish I had done more work with entries since that seems to be at the top of our list of issues.


----------



## Kyllobernese

When I first started running Remmy on the weaves, he would quite often enter after the first two poles. I was told to stand back farther from the first pole (pretend there was another pole before the first one) as I was forcing him to enter farther down. I gradually worked up to sending from any direction. It worked for him.

With Lucy, now that I am in Advanced, they must hit the entry the first time or no Q even if the rest of the course was perfect.


----------



## CptJack

God, I don't even know what to tell you. It is possible that it's as simple as giving her lots more room because, yeah, dogs who are at all sensitive to body pressure will miss things, and it's also harder to hit the entry than you think, and the dogs biomechanics play a large role in that. Also harder for them to stay in than you'd think.

But with my dogs I worked entries and then put it with weaving. With Kylie that was after she understood weaving (and after I broke them and realized she had no entries), with Molly, it was before but also a little bit concurrent (entries 2x2, then channels, then hit the entry and GO). Molly weaves better than Kylie, Kylie has better entries. OTOH, Molly's took about 6 weeks to be decent (still working harder entries and collecting to make them) and it took Kylie, um. A year. At least. Also they aren't even remotely similar dogs, in any way. Different size, structure, drives, motivations, energy, movement, and learning style. 

So basically, my advice is do what you want, but make sure you do it on both sides and at a variety of angles, expect it to take a while, and you'll probably get there in the end, anyway.


----------



## cookieface

Have you seen this: https://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_ID=228&ParentCat=457 or this: https://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_ID=157&ParentCat=457 (this is 2x2, but there's a section about entries)

I think this is what I found when we were struggling, but I never had enough room to follow through with the exercises.


----------



## kadylady

gingerkid said:


> I got some weaves - yay!
> 
> Unfortunately I have run into a snag. We have previously been working on entries with two posts, but now that I have the full set I can't send her from more than halfway down the set of poles - on both sides she ignores the start and enters after the first two poles. I'm going to do some more proofing entries with the two posts, but I guess I have two questions:
> 
> 1) is there anything else I can do to fix this? (I tried adjusting my foot and body position but it didn't seem to make a difference.)
> 
> 2) is it even too early to worry about entries or should I just work on getting her to actually be able to weave and then add entries?
> 
> ETA: Here's a video. We're using the channel method right now.


I would have you focus more on what my instructor calls "pole zero" (an invisible pole before pole one) and shape her path more. Almost anytime Skye misses a tough weave entry, it is fixed by me focusing back on "pole zero". Rather than just moving up the poles, I would focus more on working an arc around the poles (like in the clean run articles cookieface posted where it talks about workings around the clock) at this point until she becomes more confident in the entry. Think about sending her on an arc to the poles and really focus your body at "pole zero". I personally don't think its ever to early to focus on entries. Good, confident entries help build good confident weaves overall.


----------



## gingerkid

Thanks guys. We reviewed entries last night and she had absolutely no problems finding the entry from all the way around the clock (that's how I taught them, minus the jump), so it seems to be something to do with introducing the poles themselves which makes me think it's Cpt. Jack is right and it's probably a space issue, which, I won't be able to fix until the snow's gone.

Thanks for the links to the articles Cookieface, I think they'll be really helpful. Some of the exercises are definitely doable in our space.


----------



## CptJack

I had the best agility lesson ever this morning. We started working more seriously on distance, we struggled some, laughed a lot, and - Also heard things like 'beautiful' , 'best I've seen that turn taken', 'really smooth', and 'connected'. 

Also "I think you absolutely have chances in you." Which was also a nice vote of faith, but seriously. 

I am so, so over the moon.


----------



## cookieface

Class last night was about what I expected after a month off. Except for the weaves, the regular stuff was good; however, backside sends were another issue. I can't seem to get my toes, feet, hands, and head to all point in the same direction. We have a few things to work on if we can ever use the yard again.


----------



## cookieface

CptJack said:


> I had the best agility lesson ever this morning. We started working more seriously on distance, we struggled some, laughed a lot, and - Also heard things like 'beautiful' , 'best I've seen that turn taken', 'really smooth', and 'connected'.
> 
> Also "I think you absolutely have chances in you." Which was also a nice vote of faith, but seriously.
> 
> I am so, so over the moon.


That's awesome!


----------



## CptJack

cookieface said:


> I can't seem to get my toes, feet, hands, and head to all point in the same direction. We have a few things to work on if we can ever use the yard again.


Me either. Ever. I get a lot of "FREEZE. Where are your feet pointing?" That stuff's hard. Also I can apparently only hold two basic cross types in my head at once. Lately I've started doing blinds instead of fronts. After not being able to do them forever. I really, really, don't know what happened there.

(and thank you!)


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Trying to figure out how AKC agility works. I can't even read the entry forms. I want to cry a little. Hah.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Trying to figure out how AKC agility works. I can't even read the entry forms. I want to cry a little. Hah.


I tried to enter an AKC trial recently and, yeah. Between the cost per run and my inability to figure out the form I kind of walked away. ...I'll try again later, but man those things are hard.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> I tried to enter an AKC trial recently and, yeah. Between the cost per run and my inability to figure out the form I kind of walked away. ...I'll try again later, but man those things are hard.


I'm glad I'm not the only one! Nothing on the internet seems to be able to prepare me for this very well either. I don't speak this language! Guess I'll have to harass teacher and classmates.


----------



## Laurelin

What is the question you have with akc?


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> What is the question you have with akc?


I don't know what classes to enter as a first timer. I don't know what they all mean yet.. like what is the difference between Novice A & B? Do I do both?

I really honestly just don't know how an AKC trial works in general. I have only done CPE. At a CPE trial you measure half an hour before the first trial. The trial will start in the early AM. You stay until all runs are done. I know AKC sometimes has different times for different levels.. or something. Clearly I needed to go visit a trial earlier in the year. The one I want to enter is the next one running anywhere near me in a couple months.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I don't know what classes to enter as a first timer. I don't know what they all mean yet.. like what is the difference between Novice A & B? Do I do both?


A vs B is whether the handler has put that title on a dog before. So if you have never put a novice agility titles on a dog, you enter Novice A. If you have put a Novice title on a dog previously, just not the dog you're running (so every dog after your first one) you enter Novice B. It just separates the newbie competitors from experienced so placements are more fair. Same applies in Rally or Obedience.


----------



## elrohwen

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I really honestly just don't know how an AKC trial works in general. I have only done CPE. At a CPE trial you measure half an hour before the first trial. The trial will start in the early AM. You stay until all runs are done. I know AKC sometimes has different times for different levels.. or something. Clearly I needed to go visit a trial earlier in the year. The one I want to enter is the next one running anywhere near me in a couple months.


At the AKC trials I've been to, the morning was JWW and afternoon was standard, and on the second day they switched it. So if you're only running one you only need to be there half the day. Most people stayed the full day. They run either small to tall, or tall to small. Novice seemed to always be at the end, but not sure if that's typical or if it switches. But there really wasn't a schedule other than morning vs afternoon - everything else was guessing how long it would take the other classes to finish and it always took longer than we thought it would.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

elrohwen said:


> A vs B is whether the handler has put that title on a dog before. So if you have never put a novice agility titles on a dog, you enter Novice A. If you have put a Novice title on a dog previously, just not the dog you're running (so every dog after your first one) you enter Novice B. It just separates the newbie competitors from experienced so placements are more fair. Same applies in Rally or Obedience.


Oh.. well that is interesting. Goes to show you how much AKC anything I have been involved in.  Makes some sense I suppose.


----------



## Laurelin

For akc you'd be novice A. And then basically at just Jww and standard. I haven't run fast or t2b yet.


----------



## Laurelin

Akc trials here are loooong and novice always goes last. Sadly.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

So.. I would enter JWW and Standard under Novice A. That is making a bit more sense now. I don't think I would be ready for FAST or T2B.

From what I know Novice goes last around here too. I know people try to get out of Novice as quickly as possible so that they don't have to deal with that crap for long.


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, most venues around here seem to go Elite - Novice. Not a huge deal with NADAC since there are so many classes, and everyone ends up waiting around all day and running a lot but man, waiting around all day to do your two runs would wipe me out more than anything.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Yeah, most venues around here seem to go Elite - Novice. Not a huge deal with NADAC since there are so many classes, and everyone ends up waiting around all day and running a lot but man, waiting around all day to do your two runs would wipe me out more than anything.


Yeah CPE is similar and kind of random. They go high level to the low level.. but that is in each game/class. So could be like.. Standard Levels 3/4/5/C then Standard 1/2. Then Jumpers 3/4/5/C then Jumpers 1/2. Sometimes they are mixed in. Everyone leaves at the same time basically unless you don't enter certain classes. That is 5 runs to stay all day though. Not just 2 or 3.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Yeah, most venues around here seem to go Elite - Novice. Not a huge deal with NADAC since there are so many classes, and everyone ends up waiting around all day and running a lot but man, waiting around all day to do your two runs would wipe me out more than anything.


Well, they still split up JWW and standard. So at the trials I went to my friend ran around 11am, and 4pm. So you can show up late at least.

Better than going first and last. We're doing barn hunt this weekend and there are two trials per day. The day starts at 8am with Instinct and Novice, and then the second Novice trial is the very last last. So dumb. This reminds me of how we ran in nosework (second dog to go in the morning and second to last in the afternoon) and Watson was brain dead by then.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Yeah CPE is similar and kind of random. They go high level to the low level.. but that is in each game/class. So could be like.. Standard Levels 3/4/5/C then Standard 1/2. Then Jumpers 3/4/5/C then Jumpers 1/2. Sometimes they are mixed in. Everyone leaves at the same time basically unless you don't enter certain classes. That is 5 runs to stay all day though. Not just 2 or 3.


Exactly. 

Ours also have some classes that the only division is in standard course time and those tend to be done alphabetically so the novice people aren't 'punished' in those by virtue of being novice. Especially since the last game of the trial tends to be one of those.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Weather finally warmed up enough to be able to practice Agility in the arena today. There was only my sister and I so had a good workout. Hard to run in loose footing with winter boots on but the dogs had a good time. The 14 day forecast says this weather should last till close to the end of the month which is great. I did Rally with Kris first, then the Agility with Lucy and Bonnie so got my exercise.


----------



## Laurelin

Here they don't split jww and standard. They go by level and we ran back to back.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank and I are still agilitying and it's been a rough road but also learning a lot. We trialled twice last year and some fun runs. Overall less and less disaster as we go but still not running 100% at trials. 

In class he is phenomenal and pretty on par speed and skills wise with some of the masters border collies. He's a ton of fun to run. Tonight he got some ridiculous courses and weaves entries. He was totally flawless. 

So far just plans to do a fun trial with some feo runs in a few weeks then in the spring we have a seminar with a world team member. I think I'm going to try for a working spot for the novice/open courses and then maybe audit the international seminar. 

Just slow going. 

I think he is gaining a brain. We switched from our old class to a class that was mostly Aussies who were a LOT calmer than the dogs in our old class. I think the calmer class helped Hank immensely because he and the other really high dogs would feed off each other. With the Aussies they were all easy going and not too fast and overstimulating so agility was a lot less stressful Sadly over the last few months all the Aussies quit for various reasons and we're replaced with some border collies. The good: I'm friends with the bc handlers for years so at awesome being in class with friends and their awesome dogs. The bad: Hank is definitely struggling with reactivity again as all the bc are reactive too. 

I will say I am seeing some fantastic choices made by Hank and himchoosing to disengage. Tonight he let the most over the top bc walk past his crate without a peep or even getting up so that's HUGE. I had to hover and intercept a few times but not nearly as much as I used to have to. Maybe he just needed time to grow a brain.


----------



## elrohwen

Laurelin said:


> Here they don't split jww and standard. They go by level and we ran back to back.


Interesting! The only trials where I really paid attention were at the same place, so I guess it differs by who is running the trial. It was a small trial, so they didn't want to haul contact equipment in and out multiple times, so they split them up. But going back to back would be really nice.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Trials are harder for me and Kai too. She can be flawless in class and over the top at a trial.. especially her first run.. easily will blow right by weaves every time. I'm sure Hank will continue to get better and once it all clicks you will have a crazy awesome agility dog. 

Ember is back and forth between brilliant and disaster in class. Depends on how she is feeling because her emotions dictate her life. lolz.


----------



## Laurelin

elrohwen said:


> Interesting! The only trials where I really paid attention were at the same place, so I guess it differs by who is running the trial. It was a small trial, so they didn't want to haul contact equipment in and out multiple times, so they split them up. But going back to back would be really nice.




Most akc trials here are two rings so one is permanently jww and the other is permanently standard. So they will set course while you walk and run the other class. 

It's been going better especially as I've let go of any goals. For a while we were being very heavily compared to other dogs who started when we did and that just wasn't fair. But now it isn't bothering me. I think it'll click one day


----------



## CptJack

I said something mildly self-disparaging on face-book and my agility instructor popped up to say that 2017 was the year of YET, and that maybe we weren't where we needed to be (for a given thing) YET, but it would come. 

I think... there's a lot of truth in that, not just for what she was talking about (which was elite chances), but in dogs and agility in general. It is so, so, easy for me to get impatient or frustrated and in doing so stress the heck out of my dogs and myself. I'm taking this entire year and treating it as a training exercise - with both dogs. Yes, yes we WILL trial and yes we will progress as we go, but I need my focus back on learning and relationship with the dogs. Molly, in particular, needs me to pay more attention to relationship and connection than agility skills. And we need to be able to hold that in the ring, at a trial. 

Because, yeah, when she's good she's great but this past trial was so much stress from her. Not terrible, losing it, but a lot of displacement going on. It was a tough indoor venue, but once I got my crap togethe day 2 and it occurred to me to try to give her connection and fun it was so much better. I don't know why that's so hard for me, but apparently it is.


----------



## cookieface

CptJack said:


> I said something mildly self-disparaging on face-book and my agility instructor popped up to say that 2017 was the year of YET, and that maybe we weren't where we needed to be (for a given thing) YET, but it would come.
> 
> I think... there's a lot of truth in that, not just for what she was talking about (which was elite chances), but in dogs and agility in general. It is so, so, easy for me to get impatient or frustrated and in doing so stress the heck out of my dogs and myself. I'm taking this entire year and treating it as a training exercise - with both dogs. Yes, yes we WILL trial and yes we will progress as we go, but I need my focus back on learning and relationship with the dogs. Molly, in particular, needs me to pay more attention to relationship and connection than agility skills. And we need to be able to hold that in the ring, at a trial.
> 
> Because, yeah, when she's good she's great but this past trial was so much stress from her. Not terrible, losing it, but a lot of displacement going on. It was a tough indoor venue, but once I got my crap togethe day 2 and it occurred to me to try to give her connection and fun it was so much better. I don't know why that's so hard for me, but apparently it is.


I really like the idea of "the year of YET." I've felt really down because it seems that folks I know online are progressing much, much faster than Katie and I are. Even though I have no plans to trial, it would be nice to have made progress towards, IDK, running a complete course without re-doing multiple obstacles and handling maneuvers. But, if I can think of this as "we can't do x YET" it might give me the necessary change in perspective to notice small victories.


----------



## cookieface

Agility last night was pretty good. I actually did better with forced front crosses than backside sends from last week. Katie jumped 20" (instead of 16") on the last run of the night and didn't seem to notice the height difference.

All the dogs were nuts because they haven't been getting much exercise with all the rain we've been having, but Katie 1) mostly didn't jump on people when she ran up to them (she only did it to our instructor when she had food) and 2) mostly came back when I called her. I think we're having the same problem of my hesitating during the run, her not knowing what to do, so she does Katie things.

Thankfully, we're not learning anything new next week; just practicing backside sends and forced front crosses. Our instructor keeps saying that this is what we're doing in January, so I'm a little worried about what handling horrors February will bring.


----------



## CptJack

My instructor is doing more personalization of lessons this year, with individual checklists for each dog/handler team. This is awesome. It does, however, mean I need to sit down and think about what I really want to focus on with each other, and mail them into her. She'll obviously contribute but I need to come up with some specific stuff too. Love the idea, but narrowing it down's hard!

Today's lesson was with Molly. It was actually okay. Had some issues with weave popping about pole 9 which was weird, but I've never seen that before so I'm choosing not to worry about it. She did some hard stuff I didn't think she could, and her lead out issue (leading out and taking more than one obstacle) seems to have evaporated. We had a much better time with her being engaged and happy, today, in part because I did a better job of staying engaged and playful with her. Honestly, about 95% of what I need right now is to learn to handle her. My instinct, of course, is to handle her more or less as I do Kylie and that just Does. Not. Work. For all kinds of obvious reasons, like 'big, fast, wide turning, unforgiving green dog' - none of which Kylie is 

Anyway, it's a process. We're getting there.


----------



## CptJack

cookieface said:


> I really like the idea of "the year of YET." I've felt really down because it seems that folks I know online are progressing much, much faster than Katie and I are. Even though I have no plans to trial, it would be nice to have made progress towards, IDK, running a complete course without re-doing multiple obstacles and handling maneuvers. But, if I can think of this as "we can't do x YET" it might give me the necessary change in perspective to notice small victories.


It's actually really helped me. I'm a little surprised, because normally that kind of reframing doesn't work well with me, but with this it REALLY has. It's helping me break things down into smaller pieces, too, which is nice for my brain. ...and last year my instructor gently chided me until I stopped saying 'I can't', which might be helping but I seem to have relaxed a lot lately. I hope it sticks. This is much more fun this way.


----------



## elrohwen

cookieface said:


> I really like the idea of "the year of YET." I've felt really down because it seems that folks I know online are progressing much, much faster than Katie and I are. Even though I have no plans to trial, it would be nice to have made progress towards, IDK, running a complete course without re-doing multiple obstacles and handling maneuvers. But, if I can think of this as "we can't do x YET" it might give me the necessary change in perspective to notice small victories.


I went to a young dog seminar (just jumps and tunnels) with some very experienced handlers (and even dogs - one had his OTCH and MACH, so not really the young dog the seminar was for). And pretty much none of them ran courses cleanly the first time, or even the 5th time. They all had areas where they struggled for one reason or another, and the courses weren't that insanely hard. I think going back and working on your handling and the tricky parts of the course is kind of what it's all about. If you're running stuff perfectly every time, then the course is probably too easy for you.


----------



## cookieface

elrohwen said:


> I went to a young dog seminar (just jumps and tunnels) with some very experienced handlers (and even dogs - one had his OTCH and MACH, so not really the young dog the seminar was for). And pretty much none of them ran courses cleanly the first time, or even the 5th time. They all had areas where they struggled for one reason or another, and the courses weren't that insanely hard. I think going back and working on your handling and the tricky parts of the course is kind of what it's all about. If you're running stuff perfectly every time, then the course is probably too easy for you.


Well, that makes me feel better. It just seems that I'm the only one in my class repeating certain aspects of the course or forgetting where to go next or whatever. But, I'm sure I'm being overly critical of myself and exceptionally forgiving of other people.


----------



## ireth0

cookieface said:


> Well, that makes me feel better. It just seems that I'm the only one in my class repeating certain aspects of the course or forgetting where to go next or whatever. But, I'm sure I'm being overly critical of myself and exceptionally forgiving of other people.


Even when our trainer runs a dog in our class (his owner isn't able to run him so the trainer does it for her) they don't always get everything right. And she's won ribbons at Nationals and stuff. Ain't no thang. 

It's more important to realize where you went wrong than to always get everything right.


----------



## CptJack

What's that saying? You win or you learn?

I'm not going to say things never go perfectly as you go - sometimes they do and those are the rushes that make it fun - but it's danged rare. That's the goal, not the norm. 

Honestly, the biggest help to me is just to pick something to be woking on, so I can see progress there. At me remembering the course, at doing one kind of a cross, or discriminations, or better contact behavior or distance or - It seems like something is ALWAYS falling apart and needs to be fixed with either the dog or me. That's part of the game. Frustrating as heck, but normal all the way through. Because, yeah, you figure stuff out - and then the difficulty increases or the dog's a dog in the worst way ever. 

Well, in my, still pretty limited experience.


----------



## cookieface

I have this weird love-hate relationship with competition. I want to be "the best" but I don't want to fail...ever. I'm the perfectionist who waits to the last minute to do anything... so I can say "well, I didn't really try." I'm ambitious but lazy. I'm the worst of the worst.  

Mostly I'm doing agility for fun. Katie likes to run and jump and play on the equipment and I'm happy to give her that opportunity...but there's part of me that wants to title a "show bred" dog in a sport. And, I like training. I have so much fun when things come together and I see even the tiniest bit of progress. 

CptJack, selecting some skill to work on is a good idea. I think that might help me not be so critical and focus on small steps.

It's still somewhat frustrating that so many of the folks here have progressed so much fast than Katie and I have. I know people think their dog is a special snowflake, but I really do think Katie would have been an awesome competition dog (in any sport) in the right hands. She's smart, eager, and excited about everything. Channel that into something..._anything_...and she would be great.


----------



## CptJack

There are so many things going into how fast dogs and people progress, and any generalized exception is going to be unfair, but the kind of harsh reality is that most of the time the more potential the dog has (outside behavior/temperamental challenges that make sports hard, period) the steeper the learning curve is going to be. This is extra true when it's a new handler also trying to learn agility and how to do things while also teaching the dog. 

They're fast. They're intense. They HAVE NO MARGIN OF ERROR. I literally have video of me on course with Kylie, getting lost, running two steps toward the wrong obstacle, thinking 'that's not right', correcting to the right one and STILL GETTING THE Q. Because she's forgiving, she's not all that fast, she allows me time to think and correct. I also have video of some of the most ridiculously disaster filled jumpers runs with Molly, ever, that ended up overtime because I COULD NOT KEEP THE DOG. Because my timing was off and I wasn't getting information to her fast enough. It is going to take me 98 years to learn how to handle that dog. Maybe 96 if I keep doing all the agility offered and stay in private lessons.

I can teach obstacles. I can teach behavior. Handling is just stinking hard, period, and it gets harder as the dog gets faster, has longer stride length, wider turns, and more eagerness to do the thing. Not that Kylie doesn't have her own challenges, but. Comparatively? You're working wth a lot of dog. That's going to make the learning curve steeper and. It's okay. Just breathe and, yeah, break it down.


----------



## CptJack

And also don't forget the 'social media highlight reel' effect when it comes to online stuff. God knows I don't tend to post my "IDK, flail" stuff.


----------



## Sibe

Bobb's last agility run







He's been in classes for a year- he actually started on his birthday last year!- and it has been so great for him, but the time has come to quit while we're ahead. The past several weeks he has been hesitating on jumps sometimes or avoiding them, and plopping instead of landing well, and also slipping in tunnels. I'd rather not risk injury and I don't want to push his tiny body too far. He LOVES agility and has been so enthusiastic and willing. It's been fun for me to learn to handle a tiny dog, and as with any dog in the sport you gain a deeper level of communication and improve your relationship with your dog. He's going to miss this but I can accept that it's no longer in his best interest. Closing this chapter is hard but I know I am doing what is right and what is best for him.

https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/posts/10103375065074523

Happy boy. The joy he still has makes it so much worse to stop him... but I'd rather stop him when he's happy than risk injury.













































Hip roll...




































Functional back nubbie!


----------



## Kyllobernese

We have been training two times a week, only missing a few when it was too cold. We worked on a lot of single obstacles and short courses but as our first trial in March 4th, we have been setting up full courses and trying to run them perfectly the first time like you have to do at a trial. Two of the Paps and my sister's Rat Terrier are in Masters and Lucy just got out of Starters. Most of the courses are Masters courses but Lucy does really well. None of us did the course right the first time but Lucy was actually the best getting her entry into the weaves, then found an interesting smell so ducked out (in a trial I would have been able to try again) but she did everything else perfectly and we had a threadle and Serpentine in the course which is still a challenge.

I have one more Starter's Gambler to Q in as her first two were under the same judge so although she Q'd in both need one more. She is in advanced in everything else. Usually all our trials are outside except the one in March and one in November but this year they also have one in April, all at the same place.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie is 1 Tunnelers, 1 Weavers, Q from being in Elite everything. She has her T'n'G elite title and just over 1/3 of her regular NATCH points (so she has Elite title + 6 more).

Except Chances. 

Right now I am doing nothing but distance with her and that may well be all I do this year, except some breaks to work on jumpers, because I am still afraid of Elite Jumpers and also she needs the brain break. But I have dug in on this and until it starts stressing the dog I AM GOING TO LEARN TO DO THE THING. GARGH.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

cookieface said:


> I have this weird love-hate relationship with competition. I want to be "the best" but I don't want to fail...ever. I'm the perfectionist who waits to the last minute to do anything... so I can say "well, I didn't really try." I'm ambitious but lazy. I'm the worst of the worst.
> 
> Mostly I'm doing agility for fun. Katie likes to run and jump and play on the equipment and I'm happy to give her that opportunity...but there's part of me that wants to title a "show bred" dog in a sport. And, I like training. I have so much fun when things come together and I see even the tiniest bit of progress.
> 
> CptJack, selecting some skill to work on is a good idea. I think that might help me not be so critical and focus on small steps.
> 
> *It's still somewhat frustrating that so many of the folks here have progressed so much fast than Katie and I have. I know people think their dog is a special snowflake, but I really do think Katie would have been an awesome competition dog (in any sport) in the right hands. She's smart, eager, and excited about everything. Channel that into something...anything...and she would be great.*


It is so hard not to think this way. I can't even tell you how long I've felt that my dog (high drive, lots of potential) was better off in the hands of a more seasoned/better trainer. I am clumsy, a worried/fearful perfectionist, occasionally absent minded.. etc. I can't tell you how many times I will be doing a short sequence and still randomly forget what I'm doing in the middle of it. I'm over 2 years into this. It is not easy starting out any sport with fast and driven dog because they pick it up so quickly.. leaving you in the dust sometimes. Just remember that your dog would rather be with no one other than you in all of this. They don't care that you are still learning. It will all come together with time and practice.. and even then the best handlers forget how to agility at times.

I don't let myself think "my dog is better than me, or she deserves a better handler" anymore. I think "I will continue to learn so that my dog and I can do this right.. and have fun together.". No matter how long that takes.


----------



## Laurelin

Tonight we ran this course clean twice!!!

http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/ag...ers.bmp?_ga=1.157386874.1389267814.1456008790


And then failed at running a novice course totally. Running under tires, not getting contacts, missed weave entry, missed discrimination, lots of spinning. He even actually knocked a bar which I think has happened four times since I started agility with him? (He NeVER knocks bars)

We do so so much better on technical courses vs wide open space courses.


----------



## Laurelin

My trainer didn't tell us it was a nationals course till after we ran it. Hahaha


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> Tonight we ran this course clean twice!!!
> 
> http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/ag...ers.bmp?_ga=1.157386874.1389267814.1456008790
> 
> 
> And then failed at running a novice course totally. Running under tires, not getting contacts, missed weave entry, missed discrimination, lots of spinning. He even actually knocked a bar which I think has happened four times since I started agility with him? (He NeVER knocks bars)
> 
> We do so so much better on technical courses vs wide open space courses.


 Niiiice! How did you handle 2 to 3?


----------



## Sibe

The lady who runs the wolf and wildlife center nearby has a border collie. She sometimes can't make it to class but always has someone bring him and I run him. Even in pictures you can feel his intensity.









Quit trying to bite my thigh and get in the darn tunnel! No nips today but twice previously he's done that herding breed pinch on my leg.









He did not knock this bar



























He's a blast. I love running him. It's so different from the way I run Denali. I have to be thinking two moves ahead, and he's not a careful boy so I have really be strong with my deceleration, lining him up for contacts, and other handling maneuvers.


----------



## Laurelin

Sibe said:


> Niiiice! How did you handle 2 to 3?


Front cross between 2 and 3! Lead out then it's a pretty tight cross but I was surprised how well it worked. I initially walked the course planning to keep him on my left hand and then try to rear cross 3 and 4 but my trainer suggested the front cross.


----------



## Sibe

Laurelin said:


> Front cross between 2 and 3! Lead out then it's a pretty tight cross but I was surprised how well it worked. I initially walked the course planning to keep him on my left hand and then try to rear cross 3 and 4 but my trainer suggested the front cross.


 That would be a tight slice on 3 but I can see how that works.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> Tonight we ran this course clean twice!!!
> 
> http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/ag...ers.bmp?_ga=1.157386874.1389267814.1456008790
> 
> 
> And then failed at running a novice course totally. Running under tires, not getting contacts, missed weave entry, missed discrimination, lots of spinning. He even actually knocked a bar which I think has happened four times since I started agility with him? (He NeVER knocks bars)
> 
> We do so so much better on technical courses vs wide open space courses.


I want to see this course in action.. looks like so much fun! Our building doesn't have enough room for something like that and I keep missing the practice runs that do big courses at one of our trial buildings. Did you use a regular front or a forced front on 2 to 3?


----------



## Laurelin

She was calling it a forced front cross but I'm not sure what the difference is to be honest?

Let me see if I can find this course on youtube.... I'm sure someone has posted a run from nationals. It was SUPER fun. We did replace the chute with a short straight tunnel since the chute is no more.


----------



## Laurelin

She handled it and the push very different:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OefA-rRsuM

This guy does the push the same way I did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqw2v1EKLcM

Ahaha and forced front cross. I didn't know this was a separate thing. It worked really well. 

https://www.oneminddogs.com/article/Forced-Front-Cross-agility-handling/?lang=en


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Awesome! I want to run it.

Also, can someone please tell me how the heck I can find the premiums for these dang AKC trials when they don't have them on their sites? Geez. CPE has them all on the events page. I must be missing something here.


----------



## cookieface

Laurelin said:


> She handled it and the push very different:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OefA-rRsuM
> 
> This guy does the push the same way I did:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqw2v1EKLcM
> 
> Ahaha and forced front cross. I didn't know this was a separate thing. It worked really well.
> 
> https://www.oneminddogs.com/article/Forced-Front-Cross-agility-handling/?lang=en


Thanks for sharing the videos! It's nice to actually see what's happening and how people handle different obstacles. I've found that I really need to walk the course to figure out what's going to work for me (us); while, my classmates can picture most of it in their heads.

We're doing backside sends and force front crosses now - fun times. lol


Class last night was a disaster. Katie was distracted by everything: other people, tufts of fur on the floor, treats someone from the previous class left, etc. On a good note, the instructor said that my handling was good.

I'm starting to wonder if part of our problem is her anxiety about the car. She's gotten worse and I'm not sure how to fix it. There are few things I can try -
taking my husband's car for the next few weeks
feeding her in the car
switching seat covers with my husband (he has a hammock style)
dosing her with dramamine
some sort of OTC calming remedy

If anyone has other suggestions, I'm happy to try them.


----------



## Laurelin

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Awesome! I want to run it.
> 
> Also, can someone please tell me how the heck I can find the premiums for these dang AKC trials when they don't have them on their sites? Geez. CPE has them all on the events page. I must be missing something here.


Are you using Akc's event calendar?


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Laurelin said:


> Are you using Akc's event calendar?


I was on infodog and then I checked the event calendar too. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be entering these online somehow or mailing them.. but regardless I can't find these premiums. Just the general information.


----------



## Laurelin

Non sanctioned trial today. I'm so so happy with what we did.  And I actually got video!!!

Standard- 1st place. He had never seen a panel jump before I don't think. Or maybe once a year + ago. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouJruTTH8sw






Gamblers: I call this 'feet, what feet?' He got 1st of all height classes here






Jumpers: 1st of all heights too






Tunnelers: We got a E


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Hank looks amazing! So fast! Great runs. 

I finally found the premium I was looking for. It was not on any of the information sites. It was not on a club site. It was on a some obscure site I found after several days of randomly using google searches in desperation to enter before the trial opens for entries. It is a very small trial for AKC so it may be difficult to get into.. but we trial there for CPE so it would be SOO perfect as a first trial.


----------



## cookieface

We were terrible last night. Really, really terrible. I couldn't do a tandem turn until the end of class and even then I wasn't great. We worked on tandem turns in foundations and they make sense when I see other people do them, but I couldn't get me movement and timing right. Worst part is that Katie is becoming increasingly stressed by the car and it's definitely had an affect on at least our last two classes (possibly more).

Also, I'm pretty sure our instructor thinks I'm a horrible person because I haven't done much to work on the car issue. She gave me some suggestions for OTC products to try, so I'll look for them and increase our CC sessions.


----------



## CptJack

If it is any consolation at all, it took me a YEAR to be able to do a clean tandem turn with Kylie consistently in both directions. And that was a YEAR after we learned them/started doing them. So. Two total years, one with 'I should know this' and fumbling because they only made sense to me in my head, and then a year consistently working once they made sense to me OUT of my head.


----------



## cookieface

CptJack said:


> If it is any consolation at all, it took me a YEAR to be able to do a clean tandem turn with Kylie consistently in both directions. And that was a YEAR after we learned them/started doing them. So. Two total years, one with 'I should know this' and fumbling because they only made sense to me in my head, and then a year consistently working once they made sense to me OUT of my head.


Well, that makes me feel much, much better. Thanks.


----------



## gingerkid

What is a tandem turn?


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> What is a tandem turn?


https://www.oneminddogs.com/article/tandem-turn-agility-handling-technique/?lang=en

Other people/systems call it different things.


----------



## CptJack

Or, in NADAC 'switch' - which I am sure has some subtle differences in the ways it's used, sometimes, but not always. 






ETA: Now with one more clip included.

Also great demo of Kylie being danged forgiving and calling off a thing I was running her toward when I remembered the course ;-)


----------



## gingerkid

ooooh, okay. Thanks CaptJack!

Why can't people just pick one name for a thing? lol.


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> ooooh, okay. Thanks CaptJack!
> 
> Why can't people just pick one name for a thing? lol.


Because then people would realize very few systems have any unique content, the systems would have a harder time marketing themselves, and fewer people would pay for them. 

/cynic.


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> Because then people would realize very few systems have any unique content, the systems would have a harder time marketing themselves, and fewer people would pay for them.
> 
> /cynic.


I've so far been pretty big on "just do the damn thing" regardless of what the names/methods of different things are, lol


----------



## gingerkid

The both of us were messes at class yesterday. New foster dog is stressing Ida out (just because it is change, I think), and I'm sure the instructor thinks I'm totally incapable of following directions because I screwed up every single exercise. Seriously, every single one. For some reason front crosses and post turns were too complicated for my brain to handle.


----------



## CptJack

I absolutely promise you your instructor thinks no such thing, if she's been teaching agility for more than roughly 5 minutes. Dogs have off days, people have off days, teachers know this. 

And I spent one whole lesson a couple of weeks ago being incapable of doing a front cross and kept doing blinds instead. Which is hysterical because right up until a few weeks ago I couldn't do a freaking blind!


----------



## ireth0

gingerkid said:


> The both of us were messes at class yesterday. New foster dog is stressing Ida out (just because it is change, I think), and I'm sure the instructor thinks I'm totally incapable of following directions because I screwed up every single exercise. Seriously, every single one. For some reason front crosses and post turns were too complicated for my brain to handle.


Hey man, I literally asked my instructor to repeat herself like 5 times the other week because I couldn't comprehend "keep her on your left"


----------



## CptJack

We should start an embarrassing things I have done in agility classes/lessons post here or on FB. Just for making it clear that we aren't alone in screaming "RED" at the dog, taking the jump ourselves, falling down, losing the dog, stepping on the dog, or being incapable of following 3 steps worth of instructions.


----------



## elrohwen

CptJack said:


> Because then people would realize very few systems have any unique content, the systems would have a harder time marketing themselves, and fewer people would pay for them.
> 
> /cynic.


I do see very different courses being run around here for One Mind vs Derrett which is something I think it pretty interesting. I don't really think it's good course design to create courses that so clearly lean towards one or the other, but it happens.


----------



## cookieface

gingerkid said:


> The both of us were messes at class yesterday. New foster dog is stressing Ida out (just because it is change, I think), and I'm sure the instructor thinks I'm totally incapable of following directions because I screwed up every single exercise. Seriously, every single one. For some reason front crosses and post turns were too complicated for my brain to handle.


Last week, Katie and I got sent to the puppy room to work on our tandem turns...and we still couldn't do it after practicing. 



CptJack said:


> We should start an embarrassing things I have done in agility classes/lessons post here or on FB. Just for making it clear that we aren't alone in screaming "RED" at the dog, taking the jump ourselves, falling down, losing the dog, stepping on the dog, or being incapable of following 3 steps worth of instructions.


I like this idea. I've never fallen - which is surprising - but pretty sure I've done everything else.


----------



## gingerkid

ireth0 said:


> Hey man, I literally asked my instructor to repeat herself like 5 times the other week because I couldn't comprehend "keep her on your left"


That was my problem to, but in reverse! Doing post turns in a sequence and apparently even after getting confused and the instructor saying "you need to start with her on your right" I STILL tried to start with her on the left - twice! 

I've decided that it's doing short sequences without being able to walk them like a course that is killing me. I actually practice footwork, etc. when I walk and this whole "go out there and do the thing I described" bit is terrible.


----------



## CptJack

Lessons and classes there's also the fact that you're not given give minutes, run the course once, break, and then walk another course. No. It's 'this sequence now' thirty seconds, run it, have another one. 

AND they don't come with numbers.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Oh gosh I have been a complete idiot learning all of this agility stuff. I didn't understand how to do ANY of the on the flat foundations for front/rear crosses and turn. My first instructor probably though I was a complete failure at life because of how many times I still couldn't get it. 2 1/1 years later... it finally makes sense.. and only because I was asked to help teach it to intro students. For some reason I learned a lot more being a teacher helper than attempting the actual things. Takes the focus off of "me" maybe.. and so not as much pressure? I can't tell you how many times even the most advanced people (and me) stop halfway through a sequence and go.. "uh.. what's next?" 

I promise those of you struggling with even the more simple things that it will come to you in time and practice. Maybe watch videos, or sit in on a class without your dog, practice at home and don't worry about perfection. Also.. I want in on this "stupid things I did in agility class" discussion.


----------



## CptJack

The key to handling Molly successfully is apparently to be very calm, very quiet, move as little as possible and never, ever, run. 

I mean unless I want her to either pull in toward me (making noise) so hard we collide or end up pushing her WAY out (running). It's WILD, and all kinds of fun and whiplash inducing. 

Good lesson with her this morning, for sure.


----------



## cookieface

So, at least part of Katie's issues in agility seem to be related to her issues with the car. On Friday, we had two fairly decent runs - she mostly stayed with me and did what I "told" her to do. On our third, she shut down - wouldn't leave the start line, stopped in the middle of the course, wasn't even running around like a maniac the way she does at the beginning of the night. I tried to get her to do _anything_ - jump, tunnel, dog walk....she wouldn't do it. 

We took a potty break and she didn't want to leave the building. We tried the run again and the same thing - she did not want to run - so we packed up to leave. Again, she didn't want to leave the building. We walked (and ran) in the opposite direction of the car and she was fine. We walked (and tried to run) towards the car and she put on the brakes. 

On Saturday, she and my husband went to NW class with Tyson and me. She was fine walking from the building to the car, and getting in and out of the car; she had no problem with any of it. I'd think it was agility itself, but she's done the same thing after other classes. It's gotten worse in the past few months...  I don't know what to do with her (for many reasons....)


----------



## gingerkid

So, you know what makes handling maneouvers even more confusing?

Last night at class, we learned switch/flip turns, except the instructor called it a rear cross. lololol. (ETA: I get that switches are technically a rear cross since you switch sides behind the dog but OMG.)


----------



## CptJack

gingerkid said:


> So, you know what makes handling maneouvers even more confusing?
> 
> Last night at class, we learned switch/flip turns, except the instructor called it a rear cross. lololol. (ETA: I get that switches are technically a rear cross since you switch sides behind the dog but OMG.)


Yeaaaaah, it's also a 'rear on the flat' in some systems and sometimes just a rear cross! Just... kinda smile and nod and do the thing because OMG.


----------



## ireth0

We did some agility this weekend! First and second attempts respectively.


----------



## CptJack

If I do not stop micromanaging Kylie, I think my instructor is going to beat me with a jump bar. Okay, no she's not but this entire year is dedicated to getting off Kylie's butt. I HAVE made progress in the YEARS I've been working on it but it is really, really uncomfortable for me. My homework for the next bit is actually 'send the dog' with lots of distance. not because the dog can't - she can and she does - but because for some reason more than 10 feet away from me makes me kind of panic and run to her. Which is stupid. And not helping that whole chances thing.

In summation: Argh.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I feel like "trusting your dog" is one of the hardest parts of agility. No idea why! You will get there!

Super excited/nervous. Finally entered our first AKC trial for the end of March. CPE trials around here are all kinds of filled up because we are having Nationals again next year.. so I'm not going to be entering them much. I decided I have other skills I want to work on before going to Nationals. Hopefully next time it comes here I'll be able to get in.


----------



## CptJack

It is hard. 

And I admit I get some amusement out of the fact that I don't have this problem with Molly at all. Oh, I worry and micromanage her out of the ring but with reason. In it? Nah. Not even after 'left the ring to bark at a dog once'. She runs off for corners, off courses, ring crew and I just kind of call her back and move on and the impulse to stick with her/chase her is much less. Somehow my brain accepts that she's GOING to be out there. 

Kylie? Miss Angel? Really? Who has never done a single thing wrong? NOPE. She goes very far away and I automatically follow her butt. It's BIZARRE. I have no idea what I think she's going to do or I'm going to do about it, anyway.


----------



## CptJack

...or, in retrospect, maybe I just know that if I run at Molly she just moves further out. 

But still.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I feel like "trusting your dog" is one of the hardest parts of agility. No idea why! You will get there!
> 
> Super excited/nervous. Finally entered our first AKC trial for the end of March. CPE trials around here are all kinds of filled up because we are having Nationals again next year.. so I'm not going to be entering them much. I decided I have other skills I want to work on before going to Nationals. Hopefully next time it comes here I'll be able to get in.


Our Michigan CPE trials are filling too because of Nationals next year. I'm attempting to qualify Skye, we knocked out 8 Q's this past weekend...only 40 more to go! I had a great time last year when I went with Zoey.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

kadylady said:


> Our Michigan CPE trials are filling too because of Nationals next year. I'm attempting to qualify Skye, we knocked out 8 Q's this past weekend...only 40 more to go! I had a great time last year when I went with Zoey.


That doesn't surprise me since Michigan isn't too far away. I've heard talk that they will have it in Springfield again in a few more years as well so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I have no doubt we would be able to get the Q's but I just don't feel like I'm ready. I'm sure you and Skye will do great though! Maybe if you go next-next time I will get to see her run and you can watch Kai and all her crazy as well!


----------



## lauren17

Can I join in? I'm debating and worrying about going to a trial. My aussie just turned 3 and he's doing awesome in classes. There is a CPE trial in April I'm considering for his first trial. It's been years since I've been to trials with my last dog so I don't know what to expect. What I'm worried about is my dog is reactive when other high drive dogs run a course so when we are waiting our turn he's going to be a problem. He's not aggressive, he's just really loud. He's gotten much better these last few months but I'm sure with everything going on at a trial and there being other high energy dogs he's going to lose his mind. Is this going to drive everyone too crazy? I've thought about trying an obedience or rally trial first since it would be more low key to get him used to trials first.


----------



## kadylady

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> That doesn't surprise me since Michigan isn't too far away. I've heard talk that they will have it in Springfield again in a few more years as well so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I have no doubt we would be able to get the Q's but I just don't feel like I'm ready. I'm sure you and Skye will do great though! Maybe if you go next-next time I will get to see her run and you can watch Kai and all her crazy as well!


2020 Nationals will be in Springfield again. 2018 is CPE's 20th anniversary and 2020 is the 20th anniversary of CPE Nationals. Both years should be huge events, lots of fun. That would be awesome to see you and Kai there!



lauren17 said:


> Can I join in? I'm debating and worrying about going to a trial. My aussie just turned 3 and he's doing awesome in classes. There is a CPE trial in April I'm considering for his first trial. It's been years since I've been to trials with my last dog so I don't know what to expect. What I'm worried about is my dog is reactive when other high drive dogs run a course so when we are waiting our turn he's going to be a problem. He's not aggressive, he's just really loud. He's gotten much better these last few months but I'm sure with everything going on at a trial and there being other high energy dogs he's going to lose his mind. Is this going to drive everyone too crazy? I've thought about trying an obedience or rally trial first since it would be more low key to get him used to trials first.


There are a couple nice things about starting in CPE. The level 1/2 courses are pretty simple so that takes a lot of pressure off and helps build both handler and dog confidence. The level 1/2 classes are usually pretty small so there aren't a ton of dogs out waiting to run at that time. The trial I was at this weekend had 6 dogs in Level 1 Standard, so lots of room to spread out as you are waiting your turn. You can request that the gates be closed in CPE (at any level). The people are insanely friendly and welcoming to newbies. I always recommend my students start in CPE. You can have and use cookies while waiting your turn to go in. I always make sure my dogs are engaging with me and I with them as we are waiting to go in, little tricks, stretches, hand touches, tugging, etc. That way I know we are starting as connected as possible and my dogs aren't finding any trouble to get into. That being said, if you have any match opportunities around you those are great to start getting dogs used to a trial like environment, plus most allow you to use food and toys in the ring. If you can go and watch a trial ahead of time that should help your nerves as well. Doing a rally trial first definitely wouldn't hurt if you have that opportunity. Agility trials are loud, people expect that, your dog won't be the only one barking.


----------



## CptJack

NADAC champs are in Ohio this year, then a year on the west coast then back for 2019. ...I fully attend to be there at the 'back'. Not sure with who, but someone.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

lauren17 said:


> Can I join in? I'm debating and worrying about going to a trial. My aussie just turned 3 and he's doing awesome in classes. There is a CPE trial in April I'm considering for his first trial. It's been years since I've been to trials with my last dog so I don't know what to expect. What I'm worried about is my dog is reactive when other high drive dogs run a course so when we are waiting our turn he's going to be a problem. He's not aggressive, he's just really loud. He's gotten much better these last few months but I'm sure with everything going on at a trial and there being other high energy dogs he's going to lose his mind. Is this going to drive everyone too crazy? I've thought about trying an obedience or rally trial first since it would be more low key to get him used to trials first.


My dog is highly reactive to dogs running in the ring. It depends on the venue, but some have a good area to kind of block your dog from even seeing the commotion. In my experience as long as they know you are close by, you do not need to be right up near the ring until it is your turn next. I've seen lots of people that don't even get their dog out of the crate until the very last minute. You can use treats or toys to distract until you go into the ring. I thought we were going to have a hard time but we didn't. CPE is really awesome for newbies.. very accommodating and patient.



kadylady said:


> 2020 Nationals will be in Springfield again. 2018 is CPE's 20th anniversary and 2020 is the 20th anniversary of CPE Nationals. Both years should be huge events, lots of fun. That would be awesome to see you and Kai there!


Yes! I really hope to be at the 2020 one if all goes well. It's gonna be fun!



CptJack said:


> NADAC champs are in Ohio this year, then a year on the west coast then back for 2019. ...I fully attend to be there at the 'back'. Not sure with who, but someone.


That is kind of strange to me that they would hold them in Ohio since 1. Our weather is the most kooky thing in the entire world (unless it is indoor venue) and 2. NADAC is not even a big thing around here. I guess we are kind of a central location but.. weird. I'm sure your girls will be more than ready.  

Gotta say though.. my area has SO many dog events anymore within a 2 hour drive or less. So many that they are starting to overlap each other and I want to cry a lot because I can't do all the things.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> That is kind of strange to me that they would hold them in Ohio since 1. Our weather is the most kooky thing in the entire world (unless it is indoor venue) and 2. NADAC is not even a big thing around here. I guess we are kind of a central location but.. weird. I'm sure your girls will be more than ready.


It's an indoor venue ;-) They are also pretty centralized to east coast folks and it's big further north of you AND further south (New England and Fla in particular) and lots of people are coming from out west, so it works out. Sometimes they do Tn, depending on venue availability, from what I can tell. They're also consistently held in October so the weather then tends to be at least kind of moderate in general, regardless. 

I also meant to talk reactivity and agility: It's doable. I still stress out all the time, but I find hanging back, asking the competitor behind me to give me some room /not get on the start line/stand at the gate until we're off, and asking for her leash to be left on the ground helps a ton. Also doing some training or play in our own corner while we wait helps a lot.


----------



## lauren17

Thanks for the tips everyone, that makes me feel a little better. I may try and take off work and go on Thursday too so there might be less ppl that day. I think I just worry too much about what other ppl are thinking about him. I'm to the point tho that I need to take him to a trial and at least see how he does.


----------



## CptJack

I can absolutely promise you will not have the only wildly barking and lunging dog at an agility trial ;-) Which is good but doesn't help much when your dog reacts to that. But seriously, I doubt anyone will think twice.


----------



## Sibe

Ho.Lee.Cuss.









+1 more Q at the very end, we got a Novice X-Hoopers Q which was HILARIOUS so of course was the only run I didn't get a video of. I was hopping and jumping up and down to send her out. It was fantastic, and our first X-Hoopers Q (and last since NADAC is getting rid of X-Hoopers). She was so confused by the x-pens haha.

Trial was Friday & Saturday.
Runs entered:
02/24/2017 Chances 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.00/ Q/Place: N/ _(She didn't get the send, so I ran with her and showed her where to go)_
*02/24/2017 Chances 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.00/ Q/Place: Q-10/
02/24/2017 Jumpers 1 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 29.64/141.00 Q/Place: Q-10/3
02/24/2017 Regular 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 37.20/149.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1
02/24/2017 Regular 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 37.47/149.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1*
02/24/2017 Touch N' Go 1 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 31.29/139.00 Q/Place: N/7 _(She blew her dogwalk contact)_
02/24/2017 Touch N' Go 2 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: /139.00 Q/Place: E/ _(She blew her dw contact AGAIN so we trained in the ring)_
*
02/25/2017 Jumpers 1 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 29.50/139.00 Q/Place: N/10
02/25/2017 Jumpers 2 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 26.99/139.00 Q/Place: Q-10/5* _(She was 5.1 yps on this one, flying! Good enough for 5th place among the border collies!)_
*02/25/2017 Regular 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.32/170.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1*
02/25/2017 Regular 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: /170.00 Q/Place: S/ _(Round 1 was her Open title so we skipped this run, didn't need it.)_
*02/25/2017 Weavers 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.44/173.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1
02/25/2017 Weavers 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 37.90/173.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1*
02/25/2017 X-Hoopers 1 16 Nov Std S Time/Dist: /91.00 Q/Place: E/ _(Oh my poofy girl was SO CONFUSED.)_
*02/25/2017 X-Hoopers 2 16 Nov Std S Time/Dist: 23.63/91.00 Q/Place: Q-10/5* _(Hilarious run, myself and everyone else laughing, but we got it!)


_Videos:
Open Chances 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453769854513/?type=3
Open Chances 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453773826553/?type=3
Open Regular 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453775258683/?type=3
Open Regular 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453779001183/?type=3
Elite TnG 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453783357453/?type=3
Elite TnG 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453785473213/?type=3
Elite Jumpers https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453790902333/?type=3

Elite Jumpers 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456005005253/?type=3
Elite Jumpers 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456010524193/?type=3
Open Weavers 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456018722763/?type=3
Open Weavers 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456031167823/?type=3
Open Regular 1, title run! https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456041407303/?type=3
Novice X-Hoopers https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456050963153/?type=3


----------



## Lillith

I volunteered as a bar setter at an agility trial yesterday! First time I've been to a trial, and I really learned a lot. There's still so much I don't know, though. You guys might find this surprising, but there were only like 5 border collies the entire day, and 3 or 4 Australian shepherd or mix thereof. There were lots of little dogs, including Shi Tzus which I was not expecting. Some Papillons, and holy are they fast little puff balls! Lots of labs or lab mixes, poodles, Goldens, Jack Russells, Schnauzers, a rottweiler, a couple Dobermans, and tons of mutts!

I sat next to someone far more experienced in agility who explained things to me as the day went along, so I learned a lot from her, such as what the judge's hand signals meant, the different classes, different levels, etc. It was also interesting watching the handlers and figuring out how they guided their dogs through obstacles. I began to be able to spot the really experienced handlers, and the newer handlers like me! So educational!

So if anyone is just getting into agility and needs to learn some stuff, go volunteer at a trial! You get a front row seat, someone who is experienced and can teach you a whole ton of stuff, and free food and water! The only hard part is ignoring the dogs who like to come and visit the ring crew, lol.


----------



## Lillith

Sibe said:


> Ho.Lee.Cuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1 more Q at the very end, we got a Novice X-Hoopers Q which was HILARIOUS so of course was the only run I didn't get a video of. I was hopping and jumping up and down to send her out. It was fantastic, and our first X-Hoopers Q (and last since NADAC is getting rid of X-Hoopers). She was so confused by the x-pens haha.
> 
> Trial was Friday & Saturday.
> Runs entered:
> 02/24/2017 Chances 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.00/ Q/Place: N/ _(She didn't get the send, so I ran with her and showed her where to go)_
> *02/24/2017 Chances 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.00/ Q/Place: Q-10/
> 02/24/2017 Jumpers 1 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 29.64/141.00 Q/Place: Q-10/3
> 02/24/2017 Regular 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 37.20/149.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1
> 02/24/2017 Regular 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 37.47/149.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1*
> 02/24/2017 Touch N' Go 1 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 31.29/139.00 Q/Place: N/7 _(She blew her dogwalk contact)_
> 02/24/2017 Touch N' Go 2 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: /139.00 Q/Place: E/ _(She blew her dw contact AGAIN so we trained in the ring)_
> *
> 02/25/2017 Jumpers 1 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 29.50/139.00 Q/Place: N/10
> 02/25/2017 Jumpers 2 16 Elite Std S Time/Dist: 26.99/139.00 Q/Place: Q-10/5* _(She was 5.1 yps on this one, flying! Good enough for 5th place among the border collies!)_
> *02/25/2017 Regular 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.32/170.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1*
> 02/25/2017 Regular 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: /170.00 Q/Place: S/ _(Round 1 was her Open title so we skipped this run, didn't need it.)_
> *02/25/2017 Weavers 1 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 40.44/173.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1
> 02/25/2017 Weavers 2 16 Open Std S Time/Dist: 37.90/173.00 Q/Place: Q-10/1*
> 02/25/2017 X-Hoopers 1 16 Nov Std S Time/Dist: /91.00 Q/Place: E/ _(Oh my poofy girl was SO CONFUSED.)_
> *02/25/2017 X-Hoopers 2 16 Nov Std S Time/Dist: 23.63/91.00 Q/Place: Q-10/5* _(Hilarious run, myself and everyone else laughing, but we got it!)
> 
> 
> _Videos:
> Open Chances 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453769854513/?type=3
> Open Chances 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453773826553/?type=3
> Open Regular 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453775258683/?type=3
> Open Regular 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453779001183/?type=3
> Elite TnG 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453783357453/?type=3
> Elite TnG 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453785473213/?type=3
> Elite Jumpers https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103453790902333/?type=3
> 
> Elite Jumpers 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456005005253/?type=3
> Elite Jumpers 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456010524193/?type=3
> Open Weavers 1 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456018722763/?type=3
> Open Weavers 2 https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456031167823/?type=3
> Open Regular 1, title run! https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456041407303/?type=3
> Novice X-Hoopers https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10103456050963153/?type=3



Wow, that's awesome! Congrats!


----------



## Kyllobernese

I always like volunteering for Ring Crew at the trials. You can learn so much watching how the handlers and dogs work together. It also helps when you are new to have someone there to explain things especially in some of the games. I always encourage any new people to Agility to volunteer to Ring Crew. You get to see all the dogs perform and realize that even the most experienced dogs can make mistakes so don't feel so bad when your dog goofs up.


----------



## AsherLove

Stryder, my 11 yr old mini poodle, and I had our first ever agility competition yesterday. It was a NADAC trial. After 2.5 rounds of agility classes (and none since January) I wasn't sure how we would do but we did very well! We Q'd in 6 out of 8 of out classes (5 of those fault free). He had issue with the dog walk in the first 2 classes that had it (don't know if it was cause the dog walk was different than the other dog walk he's been on or if it was cause it was black and the ground was dark and he's losing some eye sight)) he Q'd still in the one class but not in the other. The other NQ he had a perfect round, but went past the last obstacle, which was too bad. He placed 1st in 3 of his classes (1 class had one other dog, the other 2 classes had 3 other dogs) and 2nd in 3 of his classes. He had a good time. 










Barrelers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zfJSlCqmvg

Tunnelers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ePa9C7PA4

Regular
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kp-sJUxWE8


----------



## kadylady

Congrats to everyone on recent trials! 

We went out of state this past weekend to a big 2 ring AKC trial in southern Ohio to run on dirt. I went with my friend and we had a great time and the girls did so amazing! 

Zoey had a perfect weekend qualifying in 4 out of 4 runs! She successfully completed 12 weaves on the first try, 4 times! That is huge for her, she hates 12 weaves! She really did not stress at all this weekend, which is amazing! She finished Open P FAST and Excellent P standard titles, AND picked up 2 Master P Standard Qs and 32 PACH points! I still can't believe how fantastic, happy and stress free she ran. We are discovering the perfect combination of not trialing or training too much, no pressure and her being jealous of her sister getting turns! It makes me so happy to see her run stress free after all the challenges we've been through. 

Skye qualified in 3 out of 6 runs and successfully completed 3 out of 3 teeters! She finished her Open Standard title and her Excellent JWW title, got her first Master JWW Q and 10 MACH points! All of her JWW runs were just gorgeous, the one that we didn't qualify in was a complete miscue on my part. Her Standard runs were a little stressy, I think she is stressing a bit in the standard ring when she see the contact equipment because she knows she has to do a teeter. When there is no contact equipment there is no teeter. I can see a difference in her starting at the start line. But she did all the teeters. The previous weekend we did CPE and I carried her off course when she bailed on a teeter. She hasn't bailed since then. We still have some work to do on the teeter but I really think with more confidence that stress should go away pretty quickly. Regardless, I was very happy with all of her runs and how far we are coming as a team. She did a great job recovering from some of my handling errors as well.

I seriously can't believe that I now have 2 dogs running in Masters and earning championship points!! 

Zoey's runs





Skye's qualifying runs


----------



## CptJack

Molly's progression since the last trial is crazy. 

Her capacity for distance is also crazy. 

I need new video but this is just wild. She's actually doing things Kylie can't. She's still more likely to take extra obstacles, my handling skills need some help but stuff like 'do this entire sequence without taking more than two steps' is possible and it's WEIRD.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs

We have started foundation agility with Dio (we are coming up on 4 weeks now ... wow time flies so fast!). He's been doing so well with everything, and the instructor is very pleased with him. he did show a little apprehension when he stepped on the teeter and it moved a little (she had it propped on a chair so it couldnt move more than about an inch or so), I was concerned but she said it was normal and he would get over it. Good thing is we got there a little early last week when the class before mine was still going on and he got to hear the bang of the teeter (the place is like a warehouse so it echoed and was loud) and he didnt even flinch, I asked her about that and she said it was a good sign, and that it was likely the movement he wasnt expecting that threw him off. She recommended working with him closing cabinet doors and such, which I have been doing and he's been doing great, he'll now push them closed with his nose. 

He is showing a lot of potential, he is not phased by other dogs even when we do things as a group class, he is 100% focused on me and never leaves of disengages at all ... so proud of him!


----------



## ireth0

Hey we did K turns this week! I actually know what a thing is!
Luna really loves them because she's so linked in to my body language. Generally for agility that can be a bit problematic (trying to have her continue to an obstacle when I am not longer moving forward is an issue) but for K turns it works to our advantage!


----------



## CptJack

Apparently the new method for teaching me to handle with distance is to pretend everything is a startline with a leadout. It's actually really effective, at least for getting what I need to be doing into my head. 

One more weekend lesson (with Molly) then two weekends in a row of trials. Second trial is just one day and just Kylie but I'm ready to get back to playing, darn it. Also starting practices up again . Not going this week but there will be one next week right before the trial, and thereafter weekly probably until May (last weekend in April is our home trial)


----------



## Kyllobernese

I think on the 22nd we will finally be able to get some practice in. It has just been too cold in the arena with going well below freezing at night but they are forecasting a little warmer weather ahead. We had another big dump of snow but we are supposed to get some rain although it did not rain like they said last night it did stay above freezing for the first time this year. Our next trial is on the 22nd of April.


----------



## dogsule

I think we finally have a run that is share worthy, lol! I have finally figured a few things out these past few trials. First I can never let Belle know she has done something wrong without making her totally disengage from me for a bit before she will finish the run. Second we are much more successful at rear crosses than front crosses mostly due to me not being able to get into the right spot without pulling her off. We still have one thing to figure out though, which is our start, we have always struggled here. I do a running start which is fine (she is just not comfortable still with a lead out) however sometimes we don't get quite connected like we need to be. Our standard run was awesome, totally connected and smooth. However the Jumpers for some reason we didn't get the connection at the start and struggled to keep it during the run and she ended up going into the weaves and right back out, the rest was clean but no Q of course. We have been stuck struggling to get that last leg of Excellent jumpers for like a year now!

Anyway, here is our AKC Masters Standard run from Saturday. We finished 7th out of 12 dogs, I know we need to figure out tighter turns and a faster teeter but that will come, first we need to stay nice and connected like we did here on a consistent manner. 






and our coveted green ribbon!
2017-03-11_04-42-37 by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## CptJack

I was introduced to 'reverse flow pivots' today at my agility lesson. 

After staring in complete confusion I learned a new (it's old but new to me) thing! I like it! Also some v-set stuff - which frankly makes more intuitive sense to me.

ETA: Also, I learned this stuff with MOLLY. We were doing an elite course with some fairly technical (especially for NADAC) stuff on it. Largely successfully. My baby dog is still a baby dog but she has REALLY started growing up agility wise (thank god for private lessons).


----------



## ireth0

We flew like the wind! Guys she went so fast! It's fricking nuts!

I take back all those times I said she wasn't really an agility kind of dog.






So amazing how far we've come. Such a good girl.


----------



## cookieface

After a few weeks of disappointing classes, Katie was somewhat back to being her normal self on Friday - at least for her first run. Our instructor commented that Katie tends to disengage and shut down after making a mistake and being reset. I get it, I'm not happy about mistakes either. So, next week we're going to run as if everything is perfect - no corrections, no restarts, just run and have fun.

We have three more classes and then our instructor is retiring from Friday night classes. Not sure what we'll do after that.

Very nice, dogsule! Congrats on the ribbon!


----------



## dogsule

cookieface said:


> After a few weeks of disappointing classes, Katie was somewhat back to being her normal self on Friday - at least for her first run. Our instructor commented that Katie tends to disengage and shut down after making a mistake and being reset. I get it, I'm not happy about mistakes either. So, next week we're going to run as if everything is perfect - no corrections, no restarts, just run and have fun.
> 
> We have three more classes and then our instructor is retiring from Friday night classes. Not sure what we'll do after that.
> 
> Very nice, dogsule! Congrats on the ribbon!


Cookieface...I have that exact same problem with Belle, if we make a mistake and I try to correct it, she totally disengages with me and I have a hard time getting her going again. Has happened in trials several times because of course you always want to correct things. One time though I was in the wrong place and she ended up doing a backside instead of just taking the jump and all in one motion I just turned her around and back over that jump and we finished perfectly. She never knew she made a mistake so she kept going. If she knows she totally stops and then sometimes does her own thing for a bit once we do get going but things are getting better for us.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

dogsule said:


> 2017-03-11_04-42-37 by rzyg, on Flickr


Congrats! Belle had a great run! 



CptJack said:


> I was introduced to 'reverse flow pivots' today at my agility lesson.
> 
> After staring in complete confusion I learned a new (it's old but new to me) thing! I like it! Also some v-set stuff - which frankly makes more intuitive sense to me.
> 
> ETA: Also, I learned this stuff with MOLLY. We were doing an elite course with some fairly technical (especially for NADAC) stuff on it. Largely successfully. My baby dog is still a baby dog but she has REALLY started growing up agility wise (thank god for private lessons).


Maybe we have a different name for it.. but what exactly is a v-set? Or really reverse flow pivot even. I think I know but there are so many darn names for things.



ireth0 said:


> We flew like the wind! Guys she went so fast! It's fricking nuts!
> 
> I take back all those times I said she wasn't really an agility kind of dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So amazing how far we've come. Such a good girl.


There are a lot of dogs who trial that barely trot through the whole thing.. that's why there are a bunch of different organizations to play in! People do agility with the dog they have. Luna is definitely not slow and sure looks like "an agility dog" to me.  



cookieface said:


> After a few weeks of disappointing classes, Katie was somewhat back to being her normal self on Friday - at least for her first run. Our instructor commented that Katie tends to disengage and shut down after making a mistake and being reset. I get it, I'm not happy about mistakes either. So, next week we're going to run as if everything is perfect - no corrections, no restarts, just run and have fun.
> 
> We have three more classes and then our instructor is retiring from Friday night classes. Not sure what we'll do after that.


A lot of dogs have this problem. If Ember gets stopped at all for an incorrect obstacle, she will go looking for cookies on the floor.. or go walk through the weave poles. Sounds like a good plan of action. Hopefully you will see improvement soon!


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Maybe we have a different name for it.. but what exactly is a v-set? Or really reverse flow pivot even. I think I know but there are so many darn names for things.


I found this site and it is my new favorite thing: https://budhouston.wordpress.com/a-glossary-of-dog-agility-terms/ because I suck at explanations. 

They're both basically just ways of changing your dogs path without a side change - for the v-set you find the 'pivot' point in the arc (turn the C or U into a V with the lines you set), pull the dog in further and to that apex and then send onward in a new, straighter, line. Reverse flow pivot is REALLY out of style right now for whatever reason - it's basically two fronts on the flat, immediately. Turn toward the dog as though picking them up with the opposite hand, dog turns, and then you pivot back and keep the dog on the same side you started on (basically changes their path, pulls them in, and can straighten them up or just give you their attention/head)

They're both (and other similar things with similar intent) proving really handy with Molly, who is STUPID long striding. Pulling her in, having her attention and straightening up her line sometimes, without a side change, is very necessary. Especially since I am often 20 feet behind her when I need to do it.

And yeah, dogs often have problems being wrong in agility and it's hard. It gets better (usually) with time. Best I can tell you is to make sure you always remember where the 'end is' so you can get out at the exit gate and when it falls apart run that way - happily, taking obstacles as you go. It takes practice to get your own nerves under control but it REALLY helps. (STill hard)


----------



## CptJack

https://www.oneminddogs.com/article/V-Set-Agility-Handling/?lang=en Oh hey, apparently OMD does v-sets and has clearer explanations.

And a better explanation of RFP http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/training/other-handling-moves.htm


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> https://www.oneminddogs.com/article/V-Set-Agility-Handling/?lang=en Oh hey, apparently OMD does v-sets and has clearer explanations.
> 
> And a better explanation of RFP http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/training/other-handling-moves.htm


Oh yes, I've done those. Just didn't know the names. Thanks! OMD needs to video everything and let me have it for a fraction of the price.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Oh yes, I've done those. Just didn't know the names. Thanks! OMD needs to video everything and let me have it for a fraction of the price.


Man, for real. If I pay for some system's online content it will be them but. Honestly not going to happen  At least mostly because I'm still NADAC and most systems just do not apply.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Man, for real. If I pay for some system's online content it will be them but. Honestly not going to happen  At least mostly because I'm still NADAC and most systems just do not apply.


It is the only system I would pay for as well. OMD just.. makes the most sense. Simple but effective. NADAC is definitely a strange one to me.. but I love that they don't have teeters. More organizations should not have teeters because so many great dogs are just flat out afraid of them.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> It is the only system I would pay for as well. OMD just.. makes the most sense. Simple but effective. NADAC is definitely a strange one to me.. but I love that they don't have teeters. More organizations should not have teeters because so many great dogs are just flat out afraid of them.


Yep agreed. I'd be more willing to do more venus with either no teeters or teeters that are visually different to the dog than the up ramp of the dog walk.


----------



## gingerkid

I wish no teeters was a thing here! :'(


----------



## cookieface

gingerkid said:


> I wish no teeters was a thing here! :'(


For sure. I hold my breath watching dogs on it. So many seem to turn and, from where I'm sitting, nearly get smacked in the head. 

Katie had teeter issues for a while, but I think her problem was that she _liked_ jumping off in the middle so she had more time to goof around.


----------



## gingerkid

Class update: last night was our last class for a while, and we learned serps. Or rather, I learned serps and Ida showed me up by doing the pattern on each run and then also (without being asked) doing it perfectly on the way back to the start. Show off.


----------



## CptJack

cookieface said:


> For sure. I hold my breath watching dogs on it. So many seem to turn and, from where I'm sitting, nearly get smacked in the head.


I've also seen small and inexperienced dogs get confused and try to 2o2o on it, or even be slow in leaving, get LAUNCHED because they're not heavy enough for half their body to keep it down. 

Never mind all the plain fly straight off the end before it even tips of dogs mistaking it for the dog walk upramp.

No, thank you. Now that the chute is gone the teeter remains as the only thing about AKC I'm not willing to have my dogs do. Of course the only equipment differences are now the teeter, table, and tire, and that our dogwalk and a-frame are rubberized (and, okay, hoops and barrels which are easy -NADAC got rid of gates which closed that difference even more)

But I am NOT doing teeters because they scare ME.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> *Never mind all the plain fly straight off the end before it even tips of dogs mistaking it for the dog walk upramp.*
> 
> No, thank you. Now that the chute is gone the teeter remains as the only thing about AKC I'm not willing to have my dogs do. Of course the only equipment differences are now the teeter, table, and tire, and that our dogwalk and a-frame are rubberized (and, okay, hoops and barrels which are easy -NADAC got rid of gates which closed that difference even more)
> 
> But I am NOT doing teeters because they scare ME.


Both of my dogs have done the bolded part. Neither are afraid of the teeter.. but every once in a long while they mistake the teeter for the walk or something and go flying. Sigh. I always make sure I'm right next to teeters to tell them "EASY" when they are ramped. I don't care if I don't get distance on them, really. I mostly feel bad for my classmates/fellow agility people who have dogs that won't go on or near them. 

Although not sure what you mean by rubberized dog walk/A-frame. All of them have that rubbery stuff on them.. they are just painted.


----------



## CptJack

Bug did the bolded thing in class ONCE and that was kind of it for me, re Teeters, especially since I can't TELL her anything. Kylie'd be okay. Molly scares me I just. It's a thing.

Nadac are rubberized in a particular way. With ship belting, actually from the company shipp belting (because of course). It's actually rubber and there are no slats. Good grip up and down and actually almost padded. Or very, very slightly padded.


----------



## CptJack

And they're all solid black which throws the daylights out of some dogs.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Bug did the bolded thing in class ONCE and that was kind of it for me, re Teeters, especially since I can't TELL her anything. Kylie'd be okay. Molly scares me I just. It's a thing.
> 
> Nadac are rubberized in a particular way. With ship belting, actually from the company shipp belting (because of course). It's actually rubber and there are no slats. Good grip up and down and actually almost padded. Or very, very slightly padded.


Ah, okay. I ask things like NADAC is some kind of strange alien. lolz. I swear it is just because we don't have it around here. 

Less than 2 weeks until our first AKC trial. It has been awhile since we trialed and I am all kinds of excited and nervous!


----------



## CptJack

It's fine! It's a lot weirder from the outside than the inside (mostly - they can stop changing the rules any time now), but I'm also used to it.


----------



## Life With Atlas

I'm lost on half of what you guys are talking about, but very excited to try this a bit more when Atlas gets old enough! We did a puppy agility class before Christmas and he seemed pretty keen on it (or at least the constant flow of treats). He was definitely one of the braver puppies, and picked up tunnels (and the chute) almost instantly. I haven't done much else with him because he's still so young (only 9 months right now), but maybe will try again in the fall. 

I've attached a link from our very last class - I hopefully made it public so everyone can see. It's pretty rookie, but I am still happy with our progress.  (He was about 6.5 months here.) 

https://www.facebook.com/christinecheintz/videos/10154690883575586/?l=8884686221780918413

Anyway, hoping to participate in this thread in the future!


----------



## dogsule

Life With Atlas said:


> I'm lost on half of what you guys are talking about, but very excited to try this a bit more when Atlas gets old enough! We did a puppy agility class before Christmas and he seemed pretty keen on it (or at least the constant flow of treats). He was definitely one of the braver puppies, and picked up tunnels (and the chute) almost instantly. I haven't done much else with him because he's still so young (only 9 months right now), but maybe will try again in the fall.
> 
> I've attached a link from our very last class - I hopefully made it public so everyone can see. It's pretty rookie, but I am still happy with our progress.  (He was about 6.5 months here.)
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/christinecheintz/videos/10154690883575586/?l=8884686221780918413
> 
> Anyway, hoping to participate in this thread in the future!


I thought that was pretty good. Love how they have the teeter low like that. wish we would have trained that way. Do you do AKC agility? The chute is no longer used in AKC.


----------



## Life With Atlas

dogsule said:


> I thought that was pretty good. Love how they have the teeter low like that. wish we would have trained that way. Do you do AKC agility? The chute is no longer used in AKC.


Well thank you! I'm curious to see how he does as he gets older and has a bit more focus, haha. We actually started with a smaller 'bang board' to teach the idea of the teeter - this was his first night with the full thing. I was happy he actually stayed on it the whole way and didn't just wander off the edge, lol. 

I am in Canada, so not sure how that will compare to what AKC does. I did know that AKC stopped using chutes, but figured if he can learn it, even if we won't use it in competition, it can't be a bad thing.  He loves tunnels so took to it within a few runs of holding it open at the end.


----------



## CptJack

Y'all. 

Molly is an agility dog.


----------



## emmybear

Not sure if I should create a new post or ask my question on here. 

How big is too big for agility? Renegade is a gsd and pretty big. 70-80ish pounds and tall. I know he wouldn't ever be competitive with the more agile breeds like border collies but I think it would be something we'd love. I signed us up for a Foundations class(whole other matter, nervous because it's our first group class of any type). Anyways, I'm rambling but my question is whether there is a size that would make doing agility uncomfortable for him? I've never been around the equipment in person and am concerned whether he'll be able to do the tunnels and narrow contact equipment comfortably? I guess the instructor will tell us but I thought I'd ask on here. 

Also, he won't be doing jumps and stuff till he's at least 18 months, probably older, but how much stress does it put on the joints? What precautions/care do you guys take to keep at your dogs injury free?

Also, in your experiences, how well trained were the dogs in Foundations classes that you have taken? The class I'm taking just says it requires a basic level of knowledge of sit/down/stay/come. Renegade knows all these but he can be iffy around distractions sometimes(he's only 14 months and is a giant goofy puppy/teenager much of the time, except when we're doing serious training with a high value reward like ball) and we've never taken a group class before. She keeps the indoor classes limited to four people/dogs which is nice. I suppose worse comes to worse we can sit in a corner or leave or something. I guess I'm just nervous. This is my first time taking a group class or any sort of training from an instructor.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have seen big Mastiffs and Great Danes do agility. As the height of the jumps is decided by the height of the dog, in AAC you can start them out in Specials which lowers the height of the jumps and it is probably the same in other types of Agility. They do seem to manage to get through the tunnels. As long as you don't push them to jump high till they are mature and they have been checked out by a Vet to make sure they do not have any hip problems and are physically sound, you should have fun.


----------



## Lillith

emmybear said:


> Not sure if I should create a new post or ask my question on here.
> 
> How big is too big for agility? Renegade is a gsd and pretty big. 70-80ish pounds and tall. I know he wouldn't ever be competitive with the more agile breeds like border collies but I think it would be something we'd love. I signed us up for a Foundations class(whole other matter, nervous because it's our first group class of any type). Anyways, I'm rambling but my question is whether there is a size that would make doing agility uncomfortable for him? I've never been around the equipment in person and am concerned whether he'll be able to do the tunnels and narrow contact equipment comfortably? I guess the instructor will tell us but I thought I'd ask on here.
> 
> Also, he won't be doing jumps and stuff till he's at least 18 months, probably older, but how much stress does it put on the joints? What precautions/care do you guys take to keep at your dogs injury free?
> 
> Also, in your experiences, how well trained were the dogs in Foundations classes that you have taken? The class I'm taking just says it requires a basic level of knowledge of sit/down/stay/come. Renegade knows all these but he can be iffy around distractions sometimes(he's only 14 months and is a giant goofy puppy/teenager much of the time, except when we're doing serious training with a high value reward like ball) and we've never taken a group class before. She keeps the indoor classes limited to four people/dogs which is nice. I suppose worse comes to worse we can sit in a corner or leave or something. I guess I'm just nervous. This is my first time taking a group class or any sort of training from an instructor.


We have a few very, very large GSDs or mixes thereof that do just fine with the tunnels and contact equipment. 

Most of the dogs in the beginner classes have basic obedience training. The main thing is if you can get the dog to engage with you, off leash, when other dogs are just on the other side of the fence. You should probably have a decent recall, as well. It seems that even the most distracted dogs in our class find the obstacles and rewards for doing them far more enticing than going to check out the other dogs and people, though, at least after the first couple of classes.


----------



## emmybear

Kyllobernese said:


> I have seen big Mastiffs and Great Danes do agility. As the height of the jumps is decided by the height of the dog, in AAC you can start them out in Specials which lowers the height of the jumps and it is probably the same in other types of Agility. They do seem to manage to get through the tunnels. As long as you don't push them to jump high till they are mature and they have been checked out by a Vet to make sure they do not have any hip problems and are physically sound, you should have fun.


 


Lillith said:


> We have a few very, very large GSDs or mixes thereof that do just fine with the tunnels and contact equipment.
> 
> Most of the dogs in the beginner classes have basic obedience training. The main thing is if you can get the dog to engage with you, off leash, when other dogs are just on the other side of the fence. You should probably have a decent recall, as well. It seems that even the most distracted dogs in our class find the obstacles and rewards for doing them far more enticing than going to check out the other dogs and people, though, at least after the first couple of classes.


Thanks for the responses. 
It sounds like we will be fine then. I did see a video of a mastiff doing agility once. Renegade's obedience is great as long as I keep his focus so I'll make sure to bring a bunch of high value treats and toys. He's also a super sniffy dog so we'll see how it goes. I think that once again, as long as I keep his focus it'll be okay. I have just never tested his obedience in a group setting with other dogs. The only trainers in town that I like that offer basic obedience group classes do it on a day that I can't make it. I think between now and the class I'll take him to the park a bunch and work on his obedience while slowly decreasing the distance between him and groups of people/hopefully dogs. 

He did great a couple of weeks ago when we were only like 20 feet away from a playground full of children and ancouple of dogs being walked around. He was on leash and we were doing some short frisbee tosses and obedience. He can usually ignore dogs really well from a distance. We've done quite a bit of work off leash as well, granted not in a building with other dogs. It is a Foundations class that mainly focuses on body awareness, confidence with new experiences, and introduces a few obstacles so I think he'll have a bit of time to get used to it before we get into majorly offleash work. 

I think mainly I'm worrying about it simply because I have a bit of social anxiety and agility is something I've wanted to do for years. Even if he is distracted and can't focus he should settle down once he gets used to it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

emmybear said:


> Not sure if I should create a new post or ask my question on here.
> 
> How big is too big for agility? Renegade is a gsd and pretty big. 70-80ish pounds and tall. I know he wouldn't ever be competitive with the more agile breeds like border collies but I think it would be something we'd love. I signed us up for a Foundations class(whole other matter, nervous because it's our first group class of any type). Anyways, I'm rambling but my question is whether there is a size that would make doing agility uncomfortable for him? I've never been around the equipment in person and am concerned whether he'll be able to do the tunnels and narrow contact equipment comfortably? I guess the instructor will tell us but I thought I'd ask on here.
> 
> Also, he won't be doing jumps and stuff till he's at least 18 months, probably older, but how much stress does it put on the joints? What precautions/care do you guys take to keep at your dogs injury free?
> 
> Also, in your experiences, how well trained were the dogs in Foundations classes that you have taken? The class I'm taking just says it requires a basic level of knowledge of sit/down/stay/come. Renegade knows all these but he can be iffy around distractions sometimes(he's only 14 months and is a giant goofy puppy/teenager much of the time, except when we're doing serious training with a high value reward like ball) and we've never taken a group class before. She keeps the indoor classes limited to four people/dogs which is nice. I suppose worse comes to worse we can sit in a corner or leave or something. I guess I'm just nervous. This is my first time taking a group class or any sort of training from an instructor.


People do agility with all kinds of really, really, large breeds. If it were me and I was planning on competing, I probably would jump them at a preferred height instead of their actual height (depending on the dog) but you won't have to worry about that for a long time. Most large breed dogs -with practice- can be perfectly safe on contact equipment. A good agility class won't even have them on full height anything for quite some time. Most of us start out on a little board that mimics a dog walk. You will also need to work on teaching your dog rear end awareness which will help with the safety issue. They should go over this kind of stuff in class.. but there is also plenty of information on the FB group "Canine Conditioning and Body Awareness Exercises". 

Great focus doesn't happen over night and most agility places understand that young dogs will need a little bit of practice. Make sure you take very high value treats with you (chicken, hot dogs, steak, stinky tuna pieces) or a high value toy. 

You don't need to be the fastest or the best to do decently in agility. When competing you aren't really competing against the other dogs. You are looking to hopefully get a Qualifying score for yourself. Besides.. it is a lot easier to learn with a dog who isn't as crazy amped as some of those Border Collies you see.  I'm sure you will have lots of fun once you get the hang of things. It is definitely a learning journey.


----------



## CptJack

Exactly this ^. There are newfs and berners running in our trials. They do fine, but, yes, jump at lower heights.


----------



## CptJack

This weekend was a bit weird in that our Q rate wasn't terribly high but I saw progress where I wanted it. Kylie got her novice chances title (finally) and with it novice versatility. That one's been a long time and me learning some things about distance handling in coming - and it was a hard chances course, too. Mostly we worked on distance everywhere and the result was fewer Qs and slower speeds, but whatever. 

Molly... was happy. Comfortable. Took off without me once or twice, had dog walk contact issues on day 1, went to greet ring crew, but also got her tunnelers novice title, her first jumpers Q, and had some REALLY outstandingly gorgeous runs- like got complimented by the judge on them - that didn't Q. Since the focus with her's been comfort and me learning wtf I'm doing with her, I am... utterly satisfied. 

Next weekend Kylie goes to a trial alone for one day, and we see if we can get her last Open Tunneler's Q. I also run open chances, though for that I'm less trying for Open Chances and more trying to see what it looks like. I doubt I'll even stay on my side of the line, but that's ALSO progress.


----------



## CptJack

Oh, and a picture.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Oh, and a picture.


Love it! Congrats!


----------



## dogsule

Well once again our AKC Agility Jumpers Excellent title eluded us this weekend. Ugh, so close. It was perfect except for missing a jump that I totally didn't support as I was more headed towards the tunnel after it and Belle went right by the jump as it wasn't in the flow of the path but offset. 

Our standard run was a little bit of a mess due to something that hasn't happened in quite some time. As we were waiting our turn (next to go in the ring) some dogs started barking and one had a really deep large sounding dog bark. Belle flattened her ears and then stood up on her hind legs looking into the ring for the source of the barking. She does not like aggressively barking dogs but has been good about it for a long time now. I really didn't think anything of it until the third obstacle. We went in and it was jump jump A frame. Started fine but as soon as she got to the top of the A frame she stopped and I believe was looking for the dog. Then she came down and started sniffing the floor and walked right by the tunnel she was supposed to go in. We totally got disconnected for a bit then she finished fine. Hope though that she learned even though she heard a big scary bark, that nothing came of it and she had no reason to be afraid.

We don't have another trial now until the last weekend of April and then again the first weekend of May.


----------



## CptJack

Realized I have out of focus, bad, video of the run.





Open this weekend. If she's recovered from eating Alpo.


----------



## CptJack

We're a weavers Q and 2 more Chances from OPEN versatility; elite everything. That'll likely take another year, but, my god, we got an open chances Q. really really did not expect it but am really... empowered, for want of a better word, by it. I honestly didn't even intend to TRY to stay on my side of the line, but. I did and she did and it's not absolutely flawless but my god we did it.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Sent off my entries today to the trial on April 22/23 and also entered our Regionals on June 9-11th. The Regionals just have three classes a day, Standard, Jumpers and Gamblers, so should be fun. It is judged differently than the regular trials where you have to have a completely clean run so even if you goof up, you still have a chance to get enough points. If you end up with 350 Points from the six classes, you are eligible for the Nationals which are being held in the same place this year. We do have two more trials in May before the Regionals plus this one in April so lots if time to practice.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats Kylie! That distance stuff is hard so that is a HUGE accomplishment. 

We had 2 day AKC trial. We ended up walking away with 3/4 Q's! One of our Standard runs was a little distracted/stressy which caused one too many refusals. She hasn't trialed in awhile and we don't usually trial 2 days. All of our other runs were great, especially our final JWW run.. which was flawless. Our next trial probably won't be until August though unfortunately. The few AKC trial sites I'm willing to go to aren't available super often. 

I come from competing in CPE.. so I am bit of a whiner now when it comes to this whole "refusal" thing.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Congrats Kylie! That distance stuff is hard so that is a HUGE accomplishment.
> 
> We had 2 day AKC trial. We ended up walking away with 3/4 Q's! One of our Standard runs was a little distracted/stressy which caused one too many refusals. She hasn't trialed in awhile and we don't usually trial 2 days. All of our other runs were great, especially our final JWW run.. which was flawless. Our next trial probably won't be until August though unfortunately. The few AKC trial sites I'm willing to go to aren't available super often.
> 
> I come from competing in CPE.. so I am bit of a whiner now when it comes to this whole "refusal" thing.


Thanks. Chances and distance have been... a hurdle. Both in her confidence to stay out there and keep following me and mine in knowing how the hell to handle from 15 feet away  We still have a lot to do to get through open and then WAY through Elite, but I think we'l eventually get it now. I was having serious doubts. 

Congrats on your weekend, too and yeah, I kind of eye roll at refusals. You're killing course time. That's a penalty already. Mostly I'm not used to it


----------



## crysania

It's SPRING! Finally! We've had so many classes canceled or moved to the small building where we work on foundation stuff. We finally got back in the big barn and got to RUN. It's been awhile. I'm so excited to get back out there. Ben is turning into a real agility rock star (or would be if he had another handler! the poor boy). He just loves it so much. And we're finally getting rear crosses! Seriously, I've been doing this since 2010 and I've never been able to successfully do a rear cross. Partially because my other girl (now retired) was slow as molasses and didn't like to be out in front of me. Ben is such a different dog that it's been an interesting journey so far.

I'm hoping to get contacts and weaves nailed down this summer. We're still not running full contacts or weaving. Time to get the equipment out and get moving!


----------



## CptJack

I'm seriously tempted to start calling Spring and Fall Agility season. It's when things happen! Then winter and summer is 'training season'. 

I've got a trial at the end of this month, a trial early June, and then nothing until mid September. There will be lots of learning happening over the summer. 

Also realized I didn't post Molly's last trial video, so have that.


----------



## CptJack

Molly's got a few trials under her belt, now. She's handling the environment well. She's handling the agility well. The trial at the end of the month we find out where the lines really are and run it all. 

I'll scratch where necessary, but this? Is my barometer reading on baby dog. I'm excited.


----------



## crysania

Ben and I had a great class last night! I love working with him. We had a pinwheel section followed by a front (or blind) cross. Pinwheels used to be SO HARD with Dahlia, my first agility dog. I had to basically walk her to each and every jump to get her to take them and all those tight turns were really hard for her. Ben does them so well! It's the timing of things like crosses that are hard! He's so fast and I am so slow! 

Anyway, here's a video showing a few segments of class (all from the same run). You can see in the first segment I was late with my front cross and he went around the jump. We did it better the second time (and he got rewarded). And then she had me just finish up the rest of the run, which was no problem for him. I just LOVE working with this dog.







And then there's this super silly moment in class. My instructor was demonstrating some handling things for me. And just...well...watch my ridiculous creature.


----------



## Sibe

0 for 4 yesterday, I was a bit off and I think she was picking up on that. But today was AWESOME!!! Got our first QQ (in preferred, she had one regular QQ the beginning of the year before I dropped her from 20" to 16") and her first Q in Premier JWW!

Here is our QQ [edit with correct link] https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10103567608316323/?permPage=1


----------



## lauren17

I'm so proud of Roo and myself, class last night was great! We've been working so hard on his barking and getting him to focus in agility and I'm finally getting somewhere! This was a new class and is a pretty large class of all aussies so I didn't have high expectations for him. Started out rough, lots of barking/screaming over stimulated, first run I had a tough start getting him to focus and he blew me off to pee on something. I was starting to get frustrated and my new instructor was great and helped me relax. About 15 minutes into class I found his brain and he was awesome! This is the quickest we've worked through it and even had him staying engaged while dogs were practising the teeter and tunnel. Which are the two obstacles that really get him worked up when other dogs are working on them. The other people in the class were very supportive and understanding of his barking. Just really excited for this class now, he's a bit ahead of the other dogs but I think it will be good for him to take a step back to learn to work around other dogs! He also ran 12 weaves like a pro! He is such a cool dog when he starts thinking!


----------



## CptJack

WHY ARE WEAVES SO HARD TO TEACH?

Oh, I dunno. 










I could not coordinate my legs that well.


----------



## Sibe

Well that sums up our weekend. Denali was a stress mess.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie got several strands (okay many but not quite a lock) of fur stuck in the wet, rubber dog walk matting, yanked them out as she was leaving them, and hyper-extended the leg the fur was attached to. Physically seems fine is now afraid of the dog walk. We got her going with it again and I think it'll be okay but we're going to have to work on it. Bizarre as heck, probably because she has so much fur everywhere and her fur and the dog walk was wet so acted like velcro but *bizarre*


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> WHY ARE WEAVES SO HARD TO TEACH?
> 
> Oh, I dunno.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could not coordinate my legs that well.


HAHA OMG right? 

I'm working on teaching Ben to weave and OH MAN is it hard. Especially trying to make sure the weaves are independent, which they NEVER were with Dahlia.

Also working on getting him to full jump height. We've been at 16 for awhile (should jump 20). He's looking pretty good!


----------



## decompensated chaos

Hello all! This is my first time posting here, about my first potential agility dog, so go easy on me please! 

I have an 8 month old Toller pup who is an endless well of energy and who just loves to push boundaries. 90% of the time he is a joy to work with, has good focus and learns super fast. The other 10% he makes me want to pull my hair out. Anyway, we started some very beginner (no jumping more than wrist height, no weave poles) group agility classes and all I can say is I'm glad that I had been working on focus and heelwork since he was a baby because it's really come in handy. However, there is an issue that's recently cropped up and I'm not sure how to handle it. 

See, we are also taking a CGC preparation class because he is good with basic obedience but still needs to work on politely greeting other people and dogs/not losing his mind when he can't access them. Unfortunately in his CGC prep class, there was a very reactive-aggressive dog who set off his alarm bells (and made me a little bitter over the fact that we were not able to practice what I set out to practice in that class since there wasn't any way to safely do dog-dog intros), and ever since then he's been having issues with barking in classes, both the CGC prep class and the agility class. He does it when other dogs are the focus of the instructor's attention or, more intensely, when they're doing obstacles and we're next in line. I try to keep his focus on me, but as soon as he notices that some other dog is working, he starts barking his head off and is completely over threshold. I can only back up so far without leaving the ring, though sometimes I do back up into an adjacent ring to get his focus back. But it seems like it's getting worse rather than better. Once it's his turn, he is so good - he absolutely loves the games we do - cavalettis, wobble board, mini teeter board, tunnels, dogwalks on the floor, short A frames, even handling exercises like just working on flatwork (crosses, wrapping around a low jump, sending to obstacles) are no problem for him. But the time between exercises is ROUGH and I get a bit embarrassed about his craziness. Has anyone else had a problem like this? Do I just need to stay the course and be consistent and hope that he'll grow out of it since he's so young? Should I pull him out of agility classes until he mentally matures more? I don't see how that would help the issue since it's just avoiding it, but if it's what is best for him I'll do it. The instructor for the class we just started (one who is new to him) recommended putting a martingale collar on him (instead of a body harness) and doing basically DS/CC in environments like Petsmart or whatever, but I personally am not sure that it is exactly what he needs.

This is him, by the way:


----------



## crysania

Out of curiosity, do they not have the dogs crated while others are out working? Because that's pretty much standard where we are. Dogs are all crated (and that's helpful too when handlers have to walk and analyze a course) and some are covered with blankets or sheets.

My Benjamin is a nutjob in class like that. If he's stuck in his crate and others are working and he can see he is all BARK BARK BARK WHINE WHINE WHINE. He's covered about 90% of the time he's in his crate and that helps a TON. I reward him a ton for good behavior by lifting up the cover and offering him some treats for being calm. My little monster has that same look that yours does...like "I am so ready to do this I AM SO EXCITED!!!"



Also I will say a LOT of people have this problem. So it's totally not uncommon. But I would definitely see about keeping him crated and covered and more relaxed.


----------



## decompensated chaos

crysania said:


> Out of curiosity, do they not have the dogs crated while others are out working? Because that's pretty much standard where we are. Dogs are all crated (and that's helpful too when handlers have to walk and analyze a course) and some are covered with blankets or sheets.
> 
> My Benjamin is a nutjob in class like that. If he's stuck in his crate and others are working and he can see he is all BARK BARK BARK WHINE WHINE WHINE. He's covered about 90% of the time he's in his crate and that helps a TON. I reward him a ton for good behavior by lifting up the cover and offering him some treats for being calm. My little monster has that same look that yours does...like "I am so ready to do this I AM SO EXCITED!!!"
> 
> Also I will say a LOT of people have this problem. So it's totally not uncommon. But I would definitely see about keeping him crated and covered and more relaxed.


Haha, he does have the same look, doesn't he!

For the super beginner classes, they're too big (4-6 people per class) to crate a dog every time we run through an exercise - it would take up a lot of class time. So far, all of the classes have been with fairly low drive dogs so none of the other dogs seem to be that bothered by having to just stand around and wait. I've got the special "live wire" one, I guess! I was sort of hoping that the answer was just to tough it out and wait until we're in the more advanced and smaller class sizes where it's more feasible to not be literally standing on the same course as a dog who's having to be coaxed onto a wobble board...


----------



## crysania

You'll find that the live wire ones are fun! My first agility dog, Dahlia, was SUPER mellow. I could have left her in a down stay while everyone was working and she would have just rolled over. I loved working with her but it was HARD WORK because just getting her excited and motivated took a lot out of me. But Ben? CRAZY. Total live wire. And now that we're starting to run sequences it's so much fun to work with a dog like that.

When I worked with Ben in a "Mind your manners" class I basically kept him occupied in between things. I did things like practice nose touches, have him spin in circles, taught him to high 5 me, play tug, etc. Basically I kept him active and focused on me. Now that he's a BIT calmer (by a bit I mean he's not bouncing off the walls the ENTIRE time), if he sits down and watches calmly, I reward THAT. But I still do a lot of work with him in between things when he's not out working.

You could definitely ask about seeing if you could crate just your dog. If everyone else has mellow dogs who can handle it, then one crate might not be such a bad thing! What's on the other side of that ring gating? Almost looks like a crating area but it's hard to tell. Where we take classes they have a whole row of crates set up (so space for something like 8-10+ dogs) and so there's tons of crating room, which is nice! Even in the super beginner classes dogs are crated when it's not their turn.


----------



## CptJack

My first agility dog was okay in a group class without crating. She's not super low drive or anything, but when we started and before she figured out the deal the group class without crating worked fine for her. Now she'd yap her head off the entire time, as she does with club practices. I don't actually mind and neither does anyone else because she's really only barking at me and from excitement, but it's not an ideal situation - and would not be fair to any reactive dogs in the class (it's just antagonistic). 

My other dog? The BC? No. No way. We did classes and nearly had to quit. She has both over-arousal issues and fear issues. It wasn't conducive to her learning a thing - except to freak out, bark, and hate other dogs and the building. We do private lessons, it's fine. And at 3, with fear under control, impulse control, and work she mostly does this when waiting her turn for something (and that is NOT cold):






This, I can live with. 

And, okay, some frustration barking if I'm slow with cues. 

Sometimes noise is just noise and happy excitement, not a big deal. Sometimes it's a sign of a dog who can't think/learn because their brains are gone and allowing it to go on is only going to make things worse. You're probably the only one who can judge which this is. Well, you and your trainer - asking them for advice and what they think would be a good idea.


----------



## decompensated chaos

^^ah, yeah, I think personally with him it's mostly excitement and maybe an eensy bit of frustration. His body language does not suggest fear (and I'm confident saying that because I've done some work with a veterinary behaviorist during the course of my DVM) and once it's our turn he is able to ignore almost any distraction (though sometimes he will decide he really wants to say hi to the instructor). And yeah, the main reason I don't like him acting like this is that there is one reactive dog in the class, so it's super rude. 

Thanks for the advice with crating, I'll give it a shot if I'm able. There are huge crating areas in our training facility (that's what's over on the other side of the gates, yeah), but only facility members are allowed to leave crates there so I'll have to bring the travel crate in from the car every class. I'm sure I'll join within the next 3-4 months, honestly, then it won't be an issue anymore. There are a lot of advanced people/dogs who train there so I'm looking forward to being able to train with them someday.


----------



## CptJack

If he's just excited (and I trust you) and gets bored/frustrated, I think I'd both try a collapsible crate and maybe working on things like Relaxation Protocol (it's available and free online though will take time), mat work and some impulse control and trying to keep him busy between his turns. I suspect as long as you stay consistent he'll work out the deal with time - and, yes, maturity. 

It'll be less of an issue as he gets into routine and honest a LOT of dogs are loud mouths in agility - but by the time they get to 'group practices' and trials the reactive ones have chilled out and the larger venues and longer days with lower pressure (and lower working time - an hour class is more working than an 8 hour trial) are easier on them. You'll be okay.


----------



## cookieface

Welcome! Cute dog!

My dog barks in _every_ class if she's not working and the crate has been a miracle. I'm not sure why it would take more time to crate (and your class isn't that big - we started with eight in class). When the working team is almost finished, the next team gets ready to go into the ring.

I'd still try to work on it with your instructor. I'm curious - why a martingale instead of a harness? You might look into something like Karen Overall's relaxation protocol or _Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out_.


----------



## decompensated chaos

cookieface said:


> My dog barks in _every_ class if she's not working and the crate has been a miracle. I'm not sure why it would take more time to crate (and your class isn't that big - we started with eight in class). When the working team is almost finished, the next team gets ready to go into the ring.
> 
> I'd still try to work on it with your instructor. I'm curious - why a martingale instead of a harness? You might look into something like Karen Overall's relaxation protocol or _Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out_.


You know, that's a good question. I guess I just assumed that it would take longer to put a dog into a crate and take it out between short exercises like we're doing. Maybe it wouldn't. 

I have no idea why she recommended the martingale, except that I said he'd back out of his flat collar. His flat collar is too big for him in general, so that's why. A properly fitting flat collar would probably have the same effect as a martingale for her purposes. He did a little bit of pulling the first time we were going through the cavalettis and the instructor was standing at the end of them with a treat (he did NOT need extra incentive, haha), but once she stood to the side of them instead he was fine and focused on me instead. He actually does a great job of LLW on his Julius-K9 harness when we're in the manners class or out in the park, on the trails, or walking around our neighborhood so I don't perceive pulling as a big issue. I'll read some of the relaxation protocols. Admittedly, I asked for a possible agility prospect from my breeder's litter and she gave me the most confident, active and pushy pup out of the litter, so I should have been prepared to need that kind of stuff.

As far as this particular instructor, she had to be kind of hands-on and coaxing with some of the other dogs so I definitely think that had him a little more amped up, since she kind of treated him like that until she realized that he did not need coaxing.

Thank you all so much for the warm welcome and advice. I've read a good amount of this thread and think you've all done so well with your pups. I look forward to having somewhere to talk about our progress, too.


----------



## crysania

I bought a teeter!

It's a used one with a hinge that needs to be fixed but it only cost me $50 and it's ALL MINE! <3


----------



## CptJack

CptJack said:


> I HOPE the speed comes with confidence. Honestly... I'm not entirely sure. Probably we'll be okay in regular classes? But something's going to have to give on some of the games. On one hand she's REALLY close to fast enough, and I mean really close, but. That's novice times? And she was moving faster all weekend than the previous trial, by quite a bit. So I think at the very least we're going to have to get more confidence at more distance, because I'm not going to be able to run with her and have us make time. Not that I'm slow, but NADAC games times are FAST.
> 
> But that's a while off.


I made this ^ Comment almost 2 years ago. 

Let me just say we ran elite tunnelers today and her YPS was 4.9something. 10 seconds under SCT for elite, and something like 3rd or fourth fastest dog period, out of all the jump heights. So, yeah. Speed came with confidence - and also with distance and also with ME setting better lines.

And also the HECK I can't run with her and make time (I've gotten faster, too!)


----------



## CptJack

Also 'go' is a good, good command. One that I was WAY slow to teach Kylie. Go is my friend.


----------



## CptJack

So, Molly's update for this trial is that she got her Regular Novice title, Novice Qs in Weavers, Jumpers, Touch 'n' Go, Open Tunnelers and narrowly missed a chances Q by something unrelated to the distance challenge (heck, Kylie came within a hair of getting her Open Chances Q - and more than made time but missed the Q in Elite Jumpers, so that's a relief). 

But Molly's having serious issue with over-arousal. No reactivity to speak of, but incredibly wired and brain falling out overexcited. Tunnelers not really an issue because all she has to do is run flat out and take directionals, but anything with obstacle performance or having to collect, slow down, or stop? LOL. A lot of the issue at this one, I think, was that we couldn't crate in the car so she even covered and crated she was constantly exposed to a lot of busy-ness, but. It's something we really need to work on. Like. Long term work on.


----------



## dogsule

Something just clicked between Belle and I. Two weekends ago I went to a trial (one day) and to be honest did not want to be there as it was only 2 weeks after loosing my little Maya, but since I had already paid in advance I went anyway. Belle and I went on to finish our last leg of Excellent Jumpers for our new title and also Q's in Masters Standard too. This past weekend I did another trial (just one day again) and we Q'd in our first Masters Jumpers and almost had a double Q but an off course tunnel sucked Belle in. It was oh so strategically placed toward the end and right after the A frame where we need to make a hard left at the bottom but the tunnel was straight ahead. I called at the proper time but she was hell bent at that tunnel. So anyway we are finally in Masters in both Jumpers and Standard so now double Q's count towards a MACH. Not sure we will ever get there but it was looking good this weekend. I felt much more confident and comfortable anyway.

Here is our Jumpers run from this past weekend...


----------



## CptJack

NADAC has lowered their YPS requirements for 12, 8, and 4" dogs. This is actually a LOT of change/a lot more time.

















I am having some mixed feelings. Overwhelmingly, I think this is a good thing. I think it'll keep more of the little dogs in the game and I think that's good. I see some 4" dogs, in particular, run their hearts out week after week and not make time- and they are running, they're just tiny and no matter how fast those legs move they don't cover ground. 

But a tiny piece of me is going "BUT I BUSTED MY BUTT TO GET FAST ENOUGH FOR ELITE". Because I am petty.

Anyway, there are the new numbers, should anyone care.


----------



## CptJack

And since we have video of Bell being awesome -






Have Kylie video. She's running Elite now, but I slept through that course (this is just a show and go)


----------



## crysania

This is why I love training where I do. We're working on distractions. Tonight our instructor had two people hold the jump bar.







Ben is REALLY getting it and looking great. I wish I had had someone videotape our first run because he was just ON and did so well. But here's the second one! The sequence is pretty simple but we added in distraction ("ring crew") to it. One off the "ring crew" was our instructor who was clapping and trying to get the dog's attention. Ben did great. He DID let out a couple small barks as he came near the guy on the right of the video but other than that he completely ignored them! Very proud of my little man!


----------



## emmybear

Just finished the last class of our six week Foundations 1 course and I must say I am thrilled. I meant to update here after our first class since I posted here freaking out and worrying before we even started. The verdict is that I worried over nothing. There have been many hiccups but overall, Renegade has surpassed all of my highest expectations and proven that I need more faith in my dog. 

Sometimes, he is a sniffy, distracted mess. Sometimes, he wanders off to visit the other dogs or people. He lost his mind with excitement when a tiny dachshund transferred into our class. He ran into the wall a few times. He loses focus several times a session. 

But those are all just sometimes. 

My crazy, nutty, high energy, and drivey puppy has done very well and I'm so so proud of him. Not to mention thrilled because agility has been a dream of mine for many years and I've completely enjoyed every minute of it. He comes back to me after he loses focus and works hard for me. He has become progressively better at being offleash indoors around other dogs. He came back to me when I called him away from trying to visit the doxie. He managed to work the majority of the hour long classes with only short breaks where he lost focus. 

Mainly, he just rose above and beyond all expectations I had for him. Granted, they were very low. I half expected a train wreck. This walk his first group class/formal training ever and his brain frequently falls out when he is in close contact with other people or dogs. Some of the classes were worse than others, some better but overall, we had a blast. He learned and he listened and I could see visible improvement in his focus and basic obedience as we progressed. He still goofs up and I mess up and he loses focus more than I'd like but he has done so well. 

I cannot wait for Foundations 2 in a few weeks! :bounce: It's outside which should be much better for him. He's usually great outside and we will be able to distance ourselves and hopefully utilize his ball which is a very high value reward for him.

I've learned some incredibly valuable lessons these past few weeks. 

1)He is a puppy. And he is doing incredibly well for his age and my lack of previous training experience. I have to loosen my expectations sometimes and just remember to have fun. 
2)To lighten up and just let things go. I get hung up on small mistakes sometimes. Or big ones like being an absolutely awful puller or jumper and greeting people obnoxiously. I don't always just appreciate how far we have come and how young he is still(only 16 months). Instead I tend to focus on what we have to work on and improve. I need to remember the positives and accomplishments and that we have plenty of time to take things slowly and enjoy ourselves. He's great offleash and I'd rather him be obnoxious than aggressive towards people. 
3)Not to be embarrassed. Even the oldest dog in our class messes up and goes off to visit other people/dogs. Dogs are dogs and it is never worth being embarrassed over. Just laugh it off.
5)Just to have fun and step out of my comfort zone. He doesn't need to be perfect. That is why it is a *training* class. 

I've learned some hugely valuable lessons and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I call it a huge success. There are practical things we need to work on. And things I need to work on as a trainer and owner. I feel our relationship has grown and am glad to have embarked on the journey of agility. It has reminded me just how much I truly love, adore, and appreciate this dog. 

Also, I can't believe I was originally worried about him fitting through the tunnel comfortably :laugh: It is his favorite thing to do so far and I have to keep a close eye on him when he is near it or he will be going through it. 

Sorry for the massively long post. I just had a ton of feelings and things I needed to write out and babble about after this set of classes and this is the best place to do it. Thank you for everyone here that are the reason I had the courage to try agility. It's so worth it.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Love the videos! Everyone looks like they are doing great.


----------



## CptJack

So, I thought some other people might find this helpful, re: Over aroused dogs, and dogs stressing high. 

At my trainer's advice I'm basically doing CAT at the startline. I set her up, I lead out and I stand there and wait until I get behavior that isn't fixated staring at the first obstacle. ANYTHING that shows she's come off edge and is in her head and thinking at all. Shifting her position, making eye-contact, ear flicks, whatever indicates her unwinding just a little. Then I release her. 

It is actually working and working very well. 

No contact obstacles in the next trial which is our biggest challenge with this - just doing weavers and tunnelers with her - so we've got some time to work it at home, lessons and practices to gradually up the environmental difficulty, but. It's both simple and highly effective.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

^^ I'll have to remember that. I think I kind of do anyway.. but I need to better.

Having some issues with stress sniffies lately with Kai.. or actual sniffies since she is a food addict. Not sure. I'm finding we have spent way too much time only practicing agility type stuff. She does better when we don't practice agility unless we are in agility class. I feel bad that I burned her out that much since she is usually such a willing partner. I think we are going to take a break entirely unless we are in class and just work on CGCA/obedience stuff. I don't want to burn her out since we have a lot of trials coming up late Summer/Fall.


----------



## CptJack

The first time I did this exercise she sat there, perched forward, with me waiting for an actual three and a half minutes.... I mean she glanced at me once or twice, but oh my god, dog. Actually we're seeing a lot more...border collie eye coming out in her lately n general. Lure coursing in particular. Kind of neat, to be honest, but it's really requiring some adjustments. 

Kylie was similar with the burn out. She still is. She can be fast and happy and love it, but it has to be a sometimes thing. Good for you recognizing it early enough to handle it!


----------



## lauren17

Roo hit 3 years old and his brain has turned on finally! He's doing so well in his classes and is much more focused. He is getting much better about not losing his mind when other dogs run too! Here is a video from the course we ran this week. His best one was the first time he ran it but I wanted a video so I ran it again after class and he was tired and a little slow (for him anyways) but a great run!


----------



## crysania

lauren17 said:


> Roo hit 3 years old and his brain has turned on finally! He's doing so well in his classes and is much more focused. He is getting much better about not losing his mind when other dogs run too! Here is a video from the course we ran this week. His best one was the first time he ran it but I wanted a video so I ran it again after class and he was tired and a little slow (for him anyways) but a great run!


Looking great! And that's funny...Ben was such a scatterbrain our first year. He started to get much more focused and really get it last year. When he was about 3ish.


----------



## CptJack

I have pretty well decided that regardless of what the organization says about age allowed in a ring, I will never do 'real' agility trialing with a dog under 3. Maybe some intro and tunnelers, but frankly after paying attention to when dogs really mature and can keep their brains and have the ability to handle stress? 3. I doubt I'll even put New Puppy in a class until he's 2. We'll play and all but. The year of beating my head against a wall is something I will be skipping in the future.


----------



## crysania

That makes total sense. Ben is about 3 1/2 to 4 and we're not ready to trial yet. Our instructor used to push us much quicker to trial and has backed off. Once she feels we're ready, she wants us to first do UKI FEO, which means we can reward in the ring with toys but it's still a trial atmosphere and only THEN take them to a trial.


----------



## ireth0

We did some stuff!

This course had a lot of challenging handling and we were the only ones to get it on the first try! I was so proud that she did the threaddle/flip away, that was her first time doing it successfully to the right!


----------



## lauren17

Everyone kept telling me with him being a male to give him a few years to mentally mature (3 to 5), seems to be about right. He's still not all the way there yet but I've seen a huge difference in him in the last few months. I am taking my time with the new pup more than I did with Roo to let her grow up. We play around with games and intro stuff but I'm not going to stress myself out so bad trying to get her ready before 2 years, although she is a much more focused dog than Roo was at this age.


----------



## CharlesErikz

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I'm reviving (or restarting) the old thread "agility classes" because I miss it. For those that missed that thread, it was about progress/brags/problems in members' agility classes.
> 
> I'll start:
> 
> The wet/cold season has meant a hiatus from disc training, so we've been concentrating on agility for the last few months. Classes couldn't be better: the instructor is fabulous - I love how organized and resourceful she is, and how I never know what challenge I'll face on any given week until I get there. Agility class is like the highlight of my week.
> 
> Come to think of it, agility class is the highlight of Kit's week, too. Sometime I'll have to record and post here her screams of joy (no better way to describe it) as we pull into the training facility.
> 
> I love, love, love the drive that Kit has on course. She eats ground like a greyhound. I'm loving this stage of her training, because as she becomes slightly more independent and is starting to read me better, I'm starting to be able to think about my next move instead of worrying about her. She's got a nice balance of equipment focus vs. handler focus. Her weaves are the envy of many, and her only Q so far is in a NADAC weavers course.
> 
> Our challenges lately are start-line stays (complete with lots of backtalk from her), distance work, directionals, and getting her up to her regular jump height (20"). A few weeks ago we went thru a stage (around 3 weeks) of naughtiness where she basically just wanted to make up her own courses and run around out of control. That seems to have passed, though.
> 
> Our second, third, and fourth trials (all NADAC) are coming up, starting about 3 weeks from now. I'm excited to finally get to run Kit in some standard novice NADAC courses, rather than in games trials where all levels run the same course (so courses are beyond us both).


What type of Dogs can participate?


----------



## ireth0

CharlesErikz said:


> What type of Dogs can participate?


In agility? All types of dogs!


----------



## crysania

Yes! All dogs who are healthy enough to do it. There's a video going around a mastiff doing it that is hilarious. I've seen Chihuahuas and Basset Hounds and Great Danes do it as well.


----------



## AlaskanValor

I am so excited to be able to join this thread! Valor's first agility class is tomorrow night at 7 pm. I have wanted to be able to do agility with my previous dog(who is now sadly deceased) but never had the chance, and I am over the moon to be starting Valor in it. 

Does anyone have any advice? Or any words on what to expect! The anticipation is killing me!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

While any healthy dog can do agility, I really don't like seeing giant breeds do it. They can jump at preferred heights but they barely fit on teeters or dog walks. They also have to crawl through tunnels. It honestly makes me uncomfortable to watch it. Maybe I'm just a worrier though. 



AlaskanValor said:


> I am so excited to be able to join this thread! Valor's first agility class is tomorrow night at 7 pm. I have wanted to be able to do agility with my previous dog(who is now sadly deceased) but never had the chance, and I am over the moon to be starting Valor in it.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice? Or any words on what to expect! The anticipation is killing me!


Some things might be a bit confusing at first. Things like front/rear crosses made zero sense to me for ages.. but eventually it does all make sense. Don't push your dog too fast. If they seem a little nervous about some things at first, don't worry. I've watched dogs afraid to go in the open weave poles blossom into the most confident dogs in class after just a few weeks. Have fun! Agility is a long training journey.. but an awesome one.


----------



## crysania

I tend to be a worrier too, though I will say that some of the giant breeds I've seen doing it stick to the jumpers type courses. The tunnel is still a little low, but they seem to handle that ok. Too bad we don't have Giant Dog Agility like we do stuff for the tiny guys. Though I suspect there aren't ENOUGH of the big guys doing it.

My advice? HAVE FUN! I don't know what kind of agility class it is. We didn't even TALK about crosses for ages. We started with a lot of foundation behaviors (crate games, recall games, tug games, shaping) and some basic jump grids (jump bumps for the puppies) long before we got to crossing and handling stuff.


----------



## AlaskanValor

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> While any healthy dog can do agility, I really don't like seeing giant breeds do it. They can jump at preferred heights but they barely fit on teeters or dog walks. They also have to crawl through tunnels. It honestly makes me uncomfortable to watch it. Maybe I'm just a worrier though.
> 
> 
> 
> Some things might be a bit confusing at first. Things like front/rear crosses made zero sense to me for ages.. but eventually it does all make sense. Don't push your dog too fast. If they seem a little nervous about some things at first, don't worry. I've watched dogs afraid to go in the open weave poles blossom into the most confident dogs in class after just a few weeks. Have fun! Agility is a long training journey.. but an awesome one.





crysania said:


> I tend to be a worrier too, though I will say that some of the giant breeds I've seen doing it stick to the jumpers type courses. The tunnel is still a little low, but they seem to handle that ok. Too bad we don't have Giant Dog Agility like we do stuff for the tiny guys. Though I suspect there aren't ENOUGH of the big guys doing it.
> 
> My advice? HAVE FUN! I don't know what kind of agility class it is. We didn't even TALK about crosses for ages. We started with a lot of foundation behaviors (crate games, recall games, tug games, shaping) and some basic jump grids (jump bumps for the puppies) long before we got to crossing and handling stuff.


Thank you both! I did speak with the instructor last night after I posted to go over what I would need to bring and such. She said that for the first class we will go as long as it looks like he is good for(since it is one on one since the group class time is a time that I work). She stated that we would be working on driving towards a target and going through a scrunched up tunnel, for sure. She sounds amazing, has been doing agility for years, and her husband does agility too!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

crysania said:


> I tend to be a worrier too, though I will say that some of the giant breeds I've seen doing it stick to the jumpers type courses. The tunnel is still a little low, but they seem to handle that ok. Too bad we don't have Giant Dog Agility like we do stuff for the tiny guys. Though I suspect there aren't ENOUGH of the big guys doing it.
> 
> My advice? HAVE FUN! I don't know what kind of agility class it is. We didn't even TALK about crosses for ages. We started with a lot of foundation behaviors (crate games, recall games, tug games, shaping) and some basic jump grids (jump bumps for the puppies) long before we got to crossing and handling stuff.


We usually start introducing foundations for crosses.. such as turning on the flat and walking behind the dog etc fairly early on. Nothing fancy or really even named. Would love if we did more of the recallers/crate games stuff in our beginner classes.


----------



## AlaskanValor

First Agility class. Was. AWESOME. We only worked on driving towards a target, but both Valor and I had a blast. Though I need to work on getting in better shape to keep up with him(got winded way too fast), he pulled me over and I skinned my knee XD Next week they are going to introduce the tunnel to him!

I was proud. He got lots of compliments on his focus on me and his settle command, which are two things we have worked hard on. I can't wait to continue on and grow as a team!


----------



## crysania

Awesome! I well remember my first agility class and how much fun it was! It's quite a journey!

And man I am in TERRIBLE shape (and have exercised-induced asthma to boot!) but as your dog gets faster you have to do LESS to keep up with them, believe it or not. My first agility dog was EXHAUSTING. She was mellow, hard to work up, and slow and hesitant. I had to work hard to get her excited and moving and had to go to every single darned jump to get her to take them. My younger man is FAST and drivey and willing to go out and away from me to take jumps and he makes it so much EASIER!


----------



## CptJack

Agreed - the slower the dog the more you have to run with them. The more independence and distance they gain, the more you're able to send them on while you do less moving. I run a lot more with Kylie than Molly.

Trial this weekend. Each dog is only doing 1 day/6 runs instead of both days with both of them. Feels weird, but the trial is a games only trial (no NATCH classes) with 2 runs of Touch 'n' Go, Weavers, and Tunnlers each day, and I'm not super invested/in pursuit of anything there, so. We're doing this one this way. 

Then it's mostly off until mid September. Still with private lessons and I'll do a couple of Virtual-Run events in July with one or the other of them, but mostly things should be fairly chilled out for summer.


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> Agreed - the slower the dog the more you have to run with them. The more independence and distance they gain, the more you're able to send them on while you do less moving.


The key here being independence and distance, not speed. Luna has gotten faster but we're still working on distance so I just have to run more than I did in the beginning.


----------



## CptJack

ireth0 said:


> The key here being independence and distance, not speed. Luna has gotten faster but we're still working on distance so I just have to run more than I did in the beginning.



They're interrelated. Independence and distance add speed to the dog - eventually, though there are some confidence issues at play.

The speed you get running with the dog is never going to be anywhere near the speed you get in a confident dog that will leave you and go. Like, yeah, Kylie is kind of fast and if I run faster she runs faster - but the speed at which she goes checking up to stay with me is NOTHING APPROACHING the speed she can go when she just goes without staying beside me. This is pretty universally true - not entirely, but close. People just don't run as fast as dogs really running, and if the dog is checking up to stick with you and needs taken to all the obstacles, they're going to be going slower than a dog that doesn't.

and dogs who are moving super fast tend to already have the confidence to leave their handler and get further away from them faster, allowing their handlers to take shorter paths between things - further inside arcs, etc. Which means less movement for the handler, fewer steps and at slower speed to get themselves where they need to be.


----------



## ireth0

CptJack said:


> They're interrelated. Independence and distance add speed to the dog. The speed you get running with the dog is never going to be anywhere near the speed you get in a confident dog that will leave you and go. Like, yeah, Kylie is kind of fast and because she's fast I run faster, but the speed at which she goes checking up to stay with me is NOTHING APPROACHING the speed she can go when she just goes. This is pretty universally true - not entirely, but close. People just don't run as fast as dogs really running, and if the dog is checking up to stick with you and needs taken to all the obstacles, they're going to be going slower than a dog that doesn't.


Definitely, but the prior statement of "as your dog gets faster you will have to run less" might be a little misleading to a newbie.


----------



## CptJack

ireth0 said:


> Definitely, but the prior statement of "as your dog gets faster you will have to run less" might be a little misleading to a newbie.


Well it flips the other way too. Dogs run faster because they gain confidence to leave you - that's why they get faster, not physical movements or ability to run faster. As they leave you, you're getting more distance and independence with the speed that comes from the confidence to say 'SEE YA! I know where I'm going!'.

The trick THERE is the handler not freaking out and calling their dog back. Which I did with Kylie and why it's taken me this long to get to decent distance with her. 

There ARE dogs who will never be that independent, especially without work put in deliberately, but a dog already ripping for the tunnel or whatever is probably not going to be one of them. Unless the handler kills it by verbally 'correcting' the situation by calling them back when they try to drive forward.


----------



## ireth0

Yep, it's something we struggle with. Luna has such a strong reinforcement history of "you be with me you get rewarded" and on top of that is a clingy "I shall ignore this whole empty couch to sit directly on top of you". Independent distance work is hard for us, even though she's gotten faster since we started.


----------



## Lillith

Sometimes Ralphie likes to run entire courses without me....then comes back for treats like OMG I DID SO GOOD lol. Granted, our facility is tiny so sometimes he gets the whole thing right, but dog, lol.


----------



## CptJack

Lillith said:


> Sometimes Ralphie likes to run entire courses without me....then comes back for treats like OMG I DID SO GOOD lol. Granted, our facility is tiny so sometimes he gets the whole thing right, but dog, lol.


Molly's done that to me in trials. I just stay still, wait, when she comes back we start over. I need to actually start doing some more deliberate distance with her to prep more for upper level chances courses but I'm kind of busy. 

I WILL SAY I did better with letting her go and take things than Kylie. Kylie got 15 feet away from me I'd flail and call her back and that just did us no favors at all, especially since she's such an 'on your ankles' dog anyway.


----------



## CptJack

Open Weavers and elite tunnelers titles today - given that we got 2/3 of her tunnelers today, I'm extra happy. Even though it only happened because times are (temporarily) incredibly generous for small dogs) in NADAC (they overshot their time adjustment to make things more fair - and are dialing back to reasonable. I'll take my advantages where I find them. Especially at the end of the day where she ran six runs indoors and in JUNE (hot). 

Tomorrow, Molly.


----------



## CptJack

Molly got her novice weavers title today with a couple of really pretty runs. Her first run of tunnelers was the nicest run I've ever had with her (and her fastest - finally got a YPS faster than Kylie's). Her second run had a rear cross fail in impressive fashion - we slammed into each other, she yelped, the inside of my ankle hit the dirt and - well, we continued on but also had my first ever 'unsafe performance' faults. Judge was really sweet about it, and I had no idea I'd done anything to my ankle until I was halfway home - in spite of being asked. I'm kind of bemused. Fast dogs, y'all.


----------



## Sibe

NADAC trial
*Elite Jumpers title!! Our first Elite title
*Two Elite Regular Q's
*One Open Tunnelers Q
She ran fast and happy! It was really hot on Friday and Saturday, thankfully there was a hose and kiddie pool. I soaked her before or after every run.


Edited score card to show highlights. I love that her Jumpers run on Saturday was so fast! She knocked one bar the 2nd round, thus the NQ, but so close to 5yps!


----------



## ireth0

We have our first outdoor fun match in less than 2 weeks! Eeep!


----------



## emmybear

At class tonight Renegade and I were the only ones able to make it. So the class was basically an hour long private lesson! It was pretty awesome and nice to get more attention and personalized feedback. Not to mention we got to try things more times which was better for being able to fix things and implement the instructor's suggestions. I'll have to do some privates in the future once we're more advanced. 

With agility though I feel like sometimes I learn one thing new but have 10 things more to work on. It's kind of exhausting but I love it. I've been forgetting some things and getting some of my commands or maneuvers mixed up so tonight after class I started creating notes of what we've learned so far and things to work on. I even drew some diagrams of different types of exercises like different ways of sending and other stuff. I even color coded the path Renegade is supposed to take and the one I am and jotted down notes on which arm to use and stuff. Kinda silly but I think it will really help me. At this early stage I kind of get confused at the placement of myself and dog and which arm I am supposed to use to cue with. I only wish I had started taking notes sooner. 

All in all it was a great class. We did good on some stuff and have other stuff to work on. I need to make a couple jumps at home to practice with and try to build some value in the actual jumping. Renegade tends to just want to go around them when he's lazy or tired. We also need to work on stays, impulse control, and somehow capping his drive enough for him to think clearly when using toys as a reward. With any sort of toys, he's just through the roof and hasty and impulsive. Not ideal for learning new obstacles. He doesn't work very well for food recently outside so it's kind of a balancing act. Increase food drive outside and lessen toy drive a bit so he can think more clearly. Lots to work on.


----------



## crysania

ireth0 said:


> Definitely, but the prior statement of "as your dog gets faster you will have to run less" might be a little misleading to a newbie.


Ok but I said more than that? Including about the dogs going out and away from you. Because that seems to go hand in hand with speed from my experiences. Slower more careful dogs need to have obstacles shown to them and you have to go in further to them. Faster more drivey dogs tend to go out and away from you and so you don't have to go all the way to the obstacles with them. I've yet to see a fast dog that required the handler to go right up to every obstacle like my slow, methodical dog did.

And then you add in needing to get a less driven dog excited enough to do it. Most of the time I was exhausted before I even STARTED to run with my first dog because I had to do all this running around and crazy stuff just to get her really up. Slow dogs are WAY tougher to work with in agility than people might think!


----------



## crysania

Unrelated to the last...

I don't really think 2x2 weaves are working that well for Ben and I. I'm still just working with two sets of poles separated and slightly open. But I cannot seem to progress beyond that. And part of the reason is his taking them from my right side. He GETS IT on the left. But on the right it's like totally foreign to him and nothing I do, including starting over from just two poles completely open makes it any better.

I just really don't know what else to do to get him to weave on that side. I'd bet anything I could get him weaving 6 poles on the left in just a few weeks. But I'm stuck where I am because I can't get the right side to progress at ALL.

I'm just clueless on where to go from here and my instructor (who is awesome so not knocking her) doesn't seem to want to do any weaves and contacts in our classes lately. Which is another frustration. We are SO FAR BEHIND on contacts and weaves. Ben can do some pretty amazing jump/tunnel sequences. He's far more advanced at this stage in that than my previous dog was. But by the time I'd taken Dahlia to a few trials and while she was still not perfect on them, she was doing really well. And that bugs me because Ben is SO GOOD at everything else, but the lack of contacts means no trialing. We've been training for almost 2 years and we haven't done any contact work in class since November.


----------



## CptJack

There is, to be frank, a sweet spot with agility dogs - even assuming some general easy/hard and discounting handler fitness level, speed, and preference which isn't fair. 

Your dog seriously being inclined to walk, not wanting to play the game, not having independence, and you're going to be working hard. A dog who is really tearing it up and running like a bat out of hell is hard to handle, too, but in a very different way that doesn't involve physical exertion. 

Both get discounted as easier for the people who have a preference that isn't the one they're discounting the difficulty of, and neither one is very fair. 

I also think a lot of people think their dogs are faster or slower than they are, too. Seeing some YPS from trials can be pretty...eye-opening. Like the range presented. My dogs, even Molly, tend to fall middle of the pack that way. Both the one I think of as kind of slow and the one I think of as blazing. It's more about the speed at which I have to get commands out than the speed they are covering ground and obstacles. \


----------



## crysania

I suspect Ben falls in the middle of the pack. He's fast, definitely. But he's not CRAZY fast like some dogs I've seen (it's possible that could come with more confidence, I don't know...only time will tell). But he's got good speed, willing to go out and take things so I don't have to drive right into the tunnel or a jump, and while timing is the tricky thing (he needs information really quickly and sooner than I think he does), I find him easier to handle than my previous dog. Who was definitely slow, especially in the beginning, and had some really tough confidence issues from whatever happened to her in her previous home (we suspect she was trained with punishment and very likely every bit of her life controlled). At first I had to stand near jumps and basically be like "YES YES I really do want you to take it" because she did NOT want to do the wrong thing and wasn't clear on what I wanted. She got faster by the end, but she was never a dog anyone who describe as fast.

This was a really fast speed for Dahlia:


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

crysania said:


> Unrelated to the last...
> 
> I don't really think 2x2 weaves are working that well for Ben and I. I'm still just working with two sets of poles separated and slightly open. But I cannot seem to progress beyond that. And part of the reason is his taking them from my right side. He GETS IT on the left. But on the right it's like totally foreign to him and nothing I do, including starting over from just two poles completely open makes it any better.
> 
> I just really don't know what else to do to get him to weave on that side. I'd bet anything I could get him weaving 6 poles on the left in just a few weeks. But I'm stuck where I am because I can't get the right side to progress at ALL.
> 
> I'm just clueless on where to go from here and my instructor (who is awesome so not knocking her) doesn't seem to want to do any weaves and contacts in our classes lately. Which is another frustration. We are SO FAR BEHIND on contacts and weaves. Ben can do some pretty amazing jump/tunnel sequences. He's far more advanced at this stage in that than my previous dog was. But by the time I'd taken Dahlia to a few trials and while she was still not perfect on them, she was doing really well. And that bugs me because Ben is SO GOOD at everything else, but the lack of contacts means no trialing. We've been training for almost 2 years and we haven't done any contact work in class since November.


I find 2x2 even though touted by some as the "best" is not the best method for every dog. I prefer open (not the V kind) channel weaves. You can get stick in the ground poles for home and set them up as a channel. You would also need to work "around the clock" to perfect entries/distance. We started with the open poles and taught them to drive down them quickly. Then we slowly closed them over time. Love the results in my girls. Fast weaves!


----------



## Lillith

crysania said:


> Unrelated to the last...
> 
> I don't really think 2x2 weaves are working that well for Ben and I. I'm still just working with two sets of poles separated and slightly open. But I cannot seem to progress beyond that. And part of the reason is his taking them from my right side. He GETS IT on the left. But on the right it's like totally foreign to him and nothing I do, including starting over from just two poles completely open makes it any better.
> 
> I just really don't know what else to do to get him to weave on that side. I'd bet anything I could get him weaving 6 poles on the left in just a few weeks. But I'm stuck where I am because I can't get the right side to progress at ALL.
> 
> I'm just clueless on where to go from here and my instructor (who is awesome so not knocking her) doesn't seem to want to do any weaves and contacts in our classes lately. Which is another frustration. We are SO FAR BEHIND on contacts and weaves. Ben can do some pretty amazing jump/tunnel sequences. He's far more advanced at this stage in that than my previous dog was. But by the time I'd taken Dahlia to a few trials and while she was still not perfect on them, she was doing really well. And that bugs me because Ben is SO GOOD at everything else, but the lack of contacts means no trialing. We've been training for almost 2 years and we haven't done any contact work in class since November.


Have you tried just leaving the weaves as the usually are, but putting up guides? We use guides made of chicken wire and small PVC pipes. At first, the entire thing is guided so they can't go anywhere but the right way, they can only enter the right way, etc. Then we took out the guides in the middle. Then we took out the guides at the end. Then we took off all the guides. The dogs in our class seemed to get it incredibly quickly that way when they could only do it the right way for a while. Ralphie progressed incredibly quickly with the guides as opposed to the channel, and he can do 12 extremely fast. Also, it's easier for the handlers to step back and not be right there as they weave, so the dogs gain some confidence and distance because they're "doing it by themselves."


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

We usually have the guides on the channels at first as well. Kairi didn't have them, but Ember did. Kairi is a little more solid than Ember but I think that is just the dogs themselves. Agreed that they help you get away from the dog faster. 

My conclusions are 2x2 is better for solid entries. Channel is better for speed. I just prefer channels because they are easier to teach in classes and almost always successful.


----------



## crysania

I may think about channels or guides. I've ONLY done 2x2 and it worked well enough for my first dog (though she never got really independent weaves). It's working great on the left side for Ben but totally NOT for the right side. Mostly he just doesn't get the entrance to them no matter what do. I started luring him that way around them this morning out of frustration with it.

The only problem with the channel and guide method is I've never seen them done that way so I don't 100% know how to do it and I'm so afraid that I'd screw it up. I'll have to look into them more and see if I can potentially set something like that up. OR beg my teacher to have a contacts/weaves class so she can tell me what I'm doing wrong. Because I'm SURE I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know WHAT!


----------



## Sibe

More pics from last weekend, from https://kengeephoto.photoreflect.com/



























She smiles the whole way.


















When your husky is mid-coat blowing and you got her soaking wet before a run because it was like 85* and now she looks like this


----------



## Lillith

crysania said:


> I may think about channels or guides. I've ONLY done 2x2 and it worked well enough for my first dog (though she never got really independent weaves). It's working great on the left side for Ben but totally NOT for the right side. Mostly he just doesn't get the entrance to them no matter what do. I started luring him that way around them this morning out of frustration with it.
> 
> The only problem with the channel and guide method is I've never seen them done that way so I don't 100% know how to do it and I'm so afraid that I'd screw it up. I'll have to look into them more and see if I can potentially set something like that up. OR beg my teacher to have a contacts/weaves class so she can tell me what I'm doing wrong. Because I'm SURE I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know WHAT!


Another tip I got from my instructor was to pretend there is another pole before the first pole. That way your body pushes the dog out more, which is especially useful if your coming at the weaves at an angle as opposed to straight on. After that, Ralphie had incredible entrances, offside and right side. He rarely goes in the wrong side, even if we're coming at it at some crazy angle, all because I push him out a bit with my hips.


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> I suspect Ben falls in the middle of the pack. He's fast, definitely. But he's not CRAZY fast like some dogs I've seen (it's possible that could come with more confidence, I don't know...only time will tell). But he's got good speed, willing to go out and take things so I don't have to drive right into the tunnel or a jump, and while timing is the tricky thing (he needs information really quickly and sooner than I think he does), I find him easier to handle than my previous dog. Who was definitely slow, especially in the beginning, and had some really tough confidence issues from whatever happened to her in her previous home (we suspect she was trained with punishment and very likely every bit of her life controlled). At first I had to stand near jumps and basically be like "YES YES I really do want you to take it" because she did NOT want to do the wrong thing and wasn't clear on what I wanted. She got faster by the end, but she was never a dog anyone who describe as fast.
> 
> This was a really fast speed for Dahlia:


The weird thing for me with Kylie is she started out really dragging - or would just not do it. So, in my head, she is slow. This past weekend? Third fastest time in all the height classes - all of them. Regularly Qs at 4.5-5YPS. She's 11" tall. That's stupid fast for a dog her size, but for whatever reason just does not feel fast. Molly going a similar speed (and while she's faster YPS wise and certainly ground wise because we can have some bobbles and get that speed. ) it just... seems faster. A lot faster. I really do not know why. 

Meanwhile my instructor's dog REGULARLY runs 7 YPS on most courses, rarely under 6 and once in a blue moon comes in at something like 9. Like. I don't even have any comprehension for that kind of speed. Even watching him. It's just - Baffling to me. And I'm glad I *don't* have it.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzIa9jRb_ok

Can't get embedding to work but y'all, I have had TITLES that thrilled me less.

And - since both video and discussion is weaves, I honestly just don't know re: methods. I think in some ways it's down to dog. I've used bits and pieces of most and to be honest it almost seems like dogs who get them just GET THEM and other dogs need a lot longer to grock onto - and also that they're physically more or less comfortable based on build and flexibility and all sorts of things.

I say, with having trained all of 2 dogs.


----------



## crysania

Ben is SUPER flexy so the bending part of weaves should come easily to him. Dahlia, not so much. She crawled through them for a long time because she found the bending more difficult. But she did finally find a decent stride. Not fast, but not slow.

And also those dogs who just are SO FAST it really is completely incomprehensible to me. My instructor runs a dog who is really tall and is fast as well so he really just FLIES. He's far faster than Ben, who's really not a very tall dude when it comes down to it.


----------



## crysania

I also wanted to share this hilariously awesome course map from a CPE trial today (not one I went to; it was posted by the judge). I love it.


----------



## gingerkid

We haven't done any agility other than sporadically working on weaves in months, but I have to share this with someone.

After watching the Regionals agility competition yesterday, I was inspired to do some so I set up some jumps in the yard to work on serpentines: - - -

As if to remind me how amazing she is, without any cues or handling on my part, Ida jumped all three jumps in a perfect "S" pattern, with a beautiful line. It made me so happy and sad at the same time.


----------



## ireth0

We did a thing! Fun match and agility OUTSIDE for the first time ever!

First run;





Second run;


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Way to go Luna! Looks like she had fun!


----------



## CptJack

Kylie continues to be the most honest dog, ever - and to make me really, really proud. She even impressed the snot out of the instructor.

We had a discrimination that I botched the handling of. I got slightly confused in the sequence leading up to the contact/tunnel discrimination and as a result I was both out of position on the course and rotated in such a way that it was a hard freaking pull, physically. She was HEADED for the dog-walk that was the wrong obstacle. 

But my god I said 'out tunnel' and she jolted over and took the tunnel without missing a beat. 

Pure verbal. Even the instructor confirmed for me -there was nothing in my messed up body language doing a thing to indicate out, but she got it. 

That just. Impresses the crap out of me and makes me all warm and fuzzy. Not so much me botching things but she really, really tries her heart out and saves my butt a lot.


----------



## cookieface

I've been going to classes solo for the past few weeks and it's been so incredibly helpful. Being able to concentrate on my own movement and body positioning without also concentrating on what Katie is doing has, I hope, resulted in some improvement in my handling. And, I hope that when Katie returns to class she'll be less frustrated and more excited to play.

I really think I would have benefited from a handler-only class when we were first starting out. If only such things were offered.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

cookieface said:


> I've been going to classes solo for the past few weeks and it's been so incredibly helpful. Being able to concentrate on my own movement and body positioning without also concentrating on what Katie is doing has, I hope, resulted in some improvement in my handling. And, I hope that when Katie returns to class she'll be less frustrated and more excited to play.
> 
> I really think I would have benefited from a handler-only class when we were first starting out. If only such things were offered.


I felt the same way once we started actually incorporating handling stuff. Now front/rear/blind crosses are second nature to me and the more advanced moves are a fun challenge. I hope that with your renewed confidence in yourself that things go more smoothly with Katie!

Finally, finally, FINALLY get to go do some more trials. Our last agility trial was in March! I had so many other obligations that dates just did not line up to trial in agility. I have a 2 day and a 1 day AKC trial in August. Super nervous (new building) and excited!


----------



## crysania

So so proud of my little man! We had a seminar today and he did great. The big focus were some new ways to use blind crosses and he just really had a ton of fun and did so well.

This was our first attempt at the whole sequence. 19 obstacles (more than we've ever seen!). She just wanted to see what we had and how we all ran it. And the goal was to keep going even if we screwed up like we would at a trial. Lots of mistakes on my part here -- late crosses and forgetting where I was going were the worst of it! But Ben stayed with me the whole way.







Here was a better run at the beginning, once we discussed how to use blind crosses. This worked SO much better for my little man!







And the end of the sequence including a crazy double blind cross. I'm not sure I'd ever feel comfortable using it in a trial but who knows? Maybe someday!






We're clearly not perfect but I'm pretty happy with how we're working together and so was the instructor.


----------



## Life With Atlas

Hi all! Atlas and I are back in a starter agility class, our first class was last week. He was hella distracted by all the other dogs and smells, but I think that will lessen as we go along (like it did in our puppy class). He remembered some of his stuff from our puppy class - waiting at the start line and tunnels. Because there are a few reactive dogs in the class we will be doing a lot of stuff one at a time in the ring - which works for me as *I* work a lot better without a leash to juggle!

I do have a question for you all - which may have been answered somewhere in the last 254 pages, lol, but unfortunately I don't have the time to go back that far. Does anyone have any good sites/resources for building your own agility equipment? Right now I'm thinking even just jumps, but maybe some version of weave poles if we get there. I know some stuff isn't feasible to build (at least not right now as we are still figuring out if this is something we want to continue with seriously). I recently remembered that I have a bunch of horse jumps I built that I could likely sell to fund the supplies for building agility equipment.


----------



## crysania

There's a book on it! I've not used it because I am not handy AT ALL, but I know people who have used the instructions with great success.

https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Agility-...43441&sr=8-1&keywords=build+agility+equipment


----------



## Life With Atlas

Crysania - Thank you! I will look it up and see if I think I can tackle it, lol. My father is pretty handy (helped make the horse jumps) so maybe we can figure it out together. I'd ask my boyfriend, but he is the king of starting projects and never finishing them, haha.


----------



## Lillith

I looked into building my own agility equipment once...I would have saved like $10.00 making it myself vs. buying it on eBay. I chose eBay. It depends largely on where you live and if you can get good prices on pvc pipe and whatnot. I made a spreadsheet and worked the whole thing out. I purchased 3 jumps and a 6 pole weave set for about $100 on eBay, and then found a tunnel on Amazon for around $20. I would check into the cost of building them yourself first, and then check a site like eBay to see if its worth it!


----------



## gingerkid

Life With Atlas said:


> Hi all! Atlas and I are back in a starter agility class, our first class was last week. He was hella distracted by all the other dogs and smells, but I think that will lessen as we go along (like it did in our puppy class). He remembered some of his stuff from our puppy class - waiting at the start line and tunnels. Because there are a few reactive dogs in the class we will be doing a lot of stuff one at a time in the ring - which works for me as *I* work a lot better without a leash to juggle!
> 
> I do have a question for you all - which may have been answered somewhere in the last 254 pages, lol, but unfortunately I don't have the time to go back that far. Does anyone have any good sites/resources for building your own agility equipment? Right now I'm thinking even just jumps, but maybe some version of weave poles if we get there. I know some stuff isn't feasible to build (at least not right now as we are still figuring out if this is something we want to continue with seriously). I recently remembered that I have a bunch of horse jumps I built that I could likely sell to fund the supplies for building agility equipment.


Buying the plastic weave poles from Costco.ca is just as cost-effective as building them yourself out of PVC, especially if you don't already own something to cut the PVC with. The PVC + joints to build weaves were going to cost me $48/set of six before GST; the set at Costco is 2 x 6 pole sets for $100.

I made it up when I made my jumps, but it was roughly this method; although, I was dumb and connected them above the ground instead of at ground level. I bought pre-made clip-on jump cups that I had shipped to my father-in-law while he was living in the US over the winter. I was able to make 4 for ~ $25 each including the jump cups.

Not including the time that I wasted trying to make my own jump cups, it took me just over an hour (total) to measure, cut, and assemble the PVC for the four jumps. (I used an electric mitre saw, if you're cutting by hand it will take longer).


----------



## Life With Atlas

Thanks you two! I had the idea to look on Kijiji and see - found an ad for someone who makes them in British Columbia for what seems to be really reasonable prices! Will have to get a shipping quote, or I will be within a few hours of where they are next month when we go on our holiday so may just take a drive over! (The current special is two full sized jumps, a set of 6 weave poles and a pause box for $125 CDN.) I was thinking about the cost and time vs finding some and this seems to be a good option. I will also check Costco online again. 

Edit: Just looked up Costco - they have a kit which includes two jumps, a tunnel and 6 weave poles for $299 which includes shipping. That sounds fairly decent as well. 

Any opinions on how any jumps is a good (and realistic) number? We haven't done weave poles yet but I'm hoping she will introduce them. Things like a teeter, A frame and dog walk I'm not worried about yet (or maybe ever, haha). I know Costco sells tunnels too which would be fun because Atlas loves them, but because he loves them we could also get away without one for now.


----------



## gingerkid

Four is a good number because then you can set up jump boxes.


----------



## Life With Atlas

Ok, I was thinking about 5, so that would work.


----------



## Sibe

We made AKC Agility Invitationals and I'm SO PROUD of Denali! We won't be going (Orlando) but it's cool to be on the list- even if it's not very difficult to be on the list when you run a husky. After all our struggles at trials, this makes me really really happy.


----------



## cookieface

Another good semi-solo class last night. The instructor brought her older, trained dog for me to run and we had a good time. She's an honest dog, so I was immediately able to see and correct my mistakes. When / If Katie returns to class, I should have better skills and lessen her frustration.


----------



## CptJack

Are you really doing a dog-sport if it's never made you cry? 

That's mostly tongue in cheek but my dog I came within an inch of bursting into tears during my lesson this morning. Lots of good stuff after that, but my brain was less 'there' than usual, I did some generally really dumb stuff but mostly there was this one, not particularly hard sequence that I could. not. get. My timing would be off. Or my positioning would be. Or I'd forget what I was doing. Or - 

I ended up doing some stuff with blind crosses and getting some things right and ending on a great note, but thisclose to just sitting down and crying from pure frustration and feeling idiotic. 

...I am sharing this because I suspect lots of people have this and maybe highlight reels aren't always helpful but also because I WILL NOT OBJECT TO BEING PAT ON THE HEAD AND REASSURED.


----------



## Life With Atlas

CptJack - I think any sport can do that to you! I know I've had those days with my horse - like how come we could do this yesterday but today is just a write off?? Good on you for ending on a good note (though sometimes a discrete cry helps too! Lol). 

I'm going to try and post a little video from my last agility class. We are still super beginners, but I'm proud of what Atlas has picked up so far. Now I just have to keep up! 

Ok - I'm having an ultimate blonde moment or something because I can't figure out how to post one from Facebook. And not sure if the forum will support a Flickr video, so here is the link. This was our first class introducing the dog walk (and second with the A frame). 

https://flic.kr/p/XaXtNY


----------



## CptJack

Life With Atlas said:


> CptJack - I think any sport can do that to you! I know I've had those days with my horse - like how come we could do this yesterday but today is just a write off?? Good on you for ending on a good note (though sometimes a discrete cry helps too! Lol).
> 
> I'm going to try and post a little video from my last agility class. We are still super beginners, but I'm proud of what Atlas has picked up so far. Now I just have to keep up!
> 
> Ok - I'm having an ultimate blonde moment or something because I can't figure out how to post one from Facebook. And not sure if the forum will support a Flickr video, so here is the link. This was our first class introducing the dog walk (and second with the A frame).
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/XaXtNY


The link works and Atlas looks great! Like really, really great.

I didn't really have much choice in the moving on. My instructor, bless her, moved me on and it got better. I'm mostly recovered ;-) I don't know why I couldn't do a sequence with an easy cross, but my GOSH I managed a blind off a running a-frame! (I did other stuff but that was a RUSH).


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I think we all just have bad days/moments doing agility. The other day I kept turning the wrong direction for a blind. I did it over 3 times.. each time turning the wrong direction. My brain knew where it wanted to go but the body was in a pattern and wanted to stay that way. I'm also a co-instructor... so I should have no excuses.  

Atlas is doing great! Aussies and agility.. my two favorite things.


----------



## Life With Atlas

Thanks you two! I'm glad to hear it seems like we're on the right track. I forgot to mention, the start of the video should have included a nice sit/stay before the tunnel, haha. My videographer was slow with the start button. He's working so well in the ring I can almost forget how COMPLETELY distracted he is at the start of every class. You'd swear he's never seen girl dogs before (he currently lives with two), haha.

Edit: CptJack - I meant to say: That's why we give these trainers all our money! So they can recognize when we need to make changes or move on.  I'm glad to hear you're mostly over it, and that it sounds like you had a very nice run afterwards!


----------



## ireth0

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I think we all just have bad days/moments doing agility.


Oh definitely. Last class I repeatedly missed obstacles in a sequence knowing full well I was missing them.


----------



## CptJack

I woke up to an email from NADAC telling me that while I didn't quite Qualify for Championships I was invited, anyway. I can't go, it's not a huge deal, but it made me go look up my points. I actually *was* really, really, close. ...That's made me feel better about agility.


----------



## crysania

Oh God yes do we have bad classes from time to time! Sometimes it's just really difficult handling I can't quite get. Sometimes it's just a bad day. Here was Ben and I in a short sequence that I was CONSTANTLY late on. So late. He kept dropping bars because of how late I was.


----------



## CptJack

This entire summer has amounted to learning to handle running contacts + NADAC courses + Often distance. Kylie has stopped contacts but they're only reliable if I'm reasonably close and that's not usually when I need. So, sending off them and ahead and blind crosses around them. And by GOD blind crosses are always fun but they're super-duper-exciting fun with contacts. Somehow.

Oh and I had that 'I want to pull my hair out' sequence again today. It was fine. I even did layering with it. IDK what my deal was, still.


----------



## cookieface

Katie has been back in class for two weeks; we seem to be doing ok and, most importantly, she seems to be enjoying it! Last week she started refusing to leave the start line towards the end of class. When we got home she was licking her paw and refused to walk on the wet grass Saturday morning, so I think she was sore. We'll do a little less this week, have the following week off, and see what happens from there.


----------



## Kyllobernese

This year started out with us attending almost all the trials available in our area plus we competed at the Regionals. After that things have come to a standstill with all our Forest Fires. Between being evacuated, then back home but too hot and smoky to train I had not done any training since the Regionals in June. Finally last Saturday we got back on track and were able to start training again. We have a trial coming up on Sept. 1st if it is not cancelled due to the fires. (the local one in August had to be cancelled) We also entered one Sept. 9th as that is the last trial till November. Lucy loved to be back in training and so did I.


----------



## Lillith

Ralphie, the Majestic Furbeast, leaping dangerous obstacles.


----------



## Sibe

Kaytu says yay! We're making good progress on our 2x2 weaves. Probably only another couple days before they're straight.


----------



## Quinsation

crysania said:


> Unrelated to the last...
> 
> I don't really think 2x2 weaves are working that well for Ben and I. I'm still just working with two sets of poles separated and slightly open. But I cannot seem to progress beyond that. And part of the reason is his taking them from my right side. He GETS IT on the left. But on the right it's like totally foreign to him and nothing I do, including starting over from just two poles completely open makes it any better.
> 
> I just really don't know what else to do to get him to weave on that side. I'd bet anything I could get him weaving 6 poles on the left in just a few weeks. But I'm stuck where I am because I can't get the right side to progress at ALL.
> 
> I'm just clueless on where to go from here and my instructor (who is awesome so not knocking her) doesn't seem to want to do any weaves and contacts in our classes lately. Which is another frustration. We are SO FAR BEHIND on contacts and weaves. Ben can do some pretty amazing jump/tunnel sequences. He's far more advanced at this stage in that than my previous dog was. But by the time I'd taken Dahlia to a few trials and while she was still not perfect on them, she was doing really well. And that bugs me because Ben is SO GOOD at everything else, but the lack of contacts means no trialing. We've been training for almost 2 years and we haven't done any contact work in class since November.


Have you thought about having his eyesight checked, or having a chiropractor check him out? Since he 'gets it' on one side, there would be a physical reason he's not getting it on the other side.
A friend of mine is a Canine Massage Therapist, she works MOST trials and is usually pretty busy. She's had some pretty amazing results on one dogs.

Another idea, is that 2x2s aren't the right method for him. I have one dog that learned 2x2s amazing quick and she can find her weaves from anywhere.
My young dog understood the idea, but lacked confidence to go past 2 poles. I went to a seminar and the instructor had me walking backwards so my dog could look at me, which kept her confidence up, and within 3 weeks, she was weaving 12 poles, with me going forward. 

Sometimes you just gotta try different ideas until you find one that works for your dog.


----------



## crysania

Quinsation said:


> Have you thought about having his eyesight checked, or having a chiropractor check him out? Since he 'gets it' on one side, there would be a physical reason he's not getting it on the other side.
> A friend of mine is a Canine Massage Therapist, she works MOST trials and is usually pretty busy. She's had some pretty amazing results on one dogs.
> 
> Another idea, is that 2x2s aren't the right method for him. I have one dog that learned 2x2s amazing quick and she can find her weaves from anywhere.
> My young dog understood the idea, but lacked confidence to go past 2 poles. I went to a seminar and the instructor had me walking backwards so my dog could look at me, which kept her confidence up, and within 3 weeks, she was weaving 12 poles, with me going forward.
> 
> Sometimes you just gotta try different ideas until you find one that works for your dog.


I don't think there's any physical reason. My other dog has similar issues with one side vs. the other at first (same side so it might very well be something *I* am doing that causes it, I just don't know). We did some troubleshooting with my instructor in class and he was starting to get it. But I'm lazy and it was hot and I haven't gotten out to do more with him on them. It's getting cooler so I need to get cracking!


----------



## CptJack

If both dogs are having trouble with 'offside' entries and weaves yeah, the problem probably is you (I say gently). It's really easy when starting with on-sides to point the dog directly into the opening between the poles and really hard to get into their way. Offside the dog has to be able to find the entry themselves and weave 'into' your space from go and how much room they need to be able to do that is sometimes less than feels intuitive.


----------



## Kyllobernese

When I trained my first Agility dog (Remmy, my Shih Tzu x Maltese) I just did it on my own and only taught him to weave with him on my left. I still managed to get him through to Masters but it was way harder. Since then I have made a point of always training them from both sides right from the start. Lucy, who I am competing with now was taught on channels and has the most reliable entries when I am on either side and from any angle.


----------



## CptJack

As point of interest since we often get people here looking for things to do with baby puppies. 

Besides the encouragement of environmental confidence and walking on things I've worked on/am working on with Kir are:

"Get out" (go around a bucket, cone or barrel) and building distance at it. 
Paw target (front paws on a bucket or plate or something) which will eventually become a contact behavior (very eventually)
Stay and building distance with that
Recalling to both sides.
Front and rear crosses on the flat
Hoops (go through them and even if not nadac use a jump stand ins for handling)
and now tiny sequences with those things - all completely flat and no more than 2 before a treat and four total.


----------



## emmybear

This weekend is our first trial. I'm super nervous but also very excited. I'm not nervous because of how we'll do but just first time trial anxiety. I don't really expect much by way of q's. We've only been in classes and training agility for about five months now. Renegade is still high drive and wild and I'm learning how to handle him. We've taken 3 six week classes: Foundations 1, Foundations 2, and Contacts. I'm mainly going with the hopes of having fun and achieving little goals. Like him paying attention or completing bits of the courses correctly. It should also show us what we need to most work on. 

We're starting off in NADAC because it seems super beginner friendly. My instructor has encouraged everyone to enter this trial to get experience with the atmosphere and discover what all we need to work on still. It's a NADAC fundraiser thingy so it has a deal for new handlers to pay $20 a day and get to enter as many runs as we want. I entered Saturday and Sunday and figured we would just scratch any runs we don't feel like doing. Or scratch if Ren seems stressed or overly tired at any point. 

We've enter some intro and some novice classes. Intro to avoid weaves because I haven't finished teaching Renegade them yet. Novice in the rest because I don't expect any/many clean runs anyway and the novice course are much more fun to run for me. This weekend is going to be focused on fun. 

If we manage any clean runs, I will be thrilled; if not, I'll still be happy if I can get even a smidgen of focus. 
Do dogs usually have issues transitioning from slatted AKC style contacts to the black rubberized NADAC ones? We've practiced NADAC courses but not on NADAC specific equipment. Also, how long do trial days usually last? This trial is supposed to have over 650 runs. I don't know if that's big or small or average. Do we need to get there early? Ren is so tall he doesn't need to be measured. 

Any advice for first trials? (I've never done any other sports) 

I'll post an update after tomorrow or Sunday.


----------



## CptJack

Some dogs do have trouble the first time they see the black equipment. Most don't. Fortunately, in NADAC you can train in the ring once per run, though you won't Q and can't use food, so if you want to give it a couple of goes or just try to get him partially on it you can work on it. If you're in everything you've probably got what, 12 runs over the weekend? It'll be fine.

650 runs per day I assume since you said Funraiser and those are sometimes pretty massive. That's a pretty big one and with all the classes being offered you can probably expect it to basically be 12-14 hours and be pleasantly surprised if it's not. Because it's runs + course building and changes + walk throughs. If it's for the weekend probably about half that.

And also: HAVE FUN! You'll be fine and NADAC really is super, super, welcoming and laid back and fun.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and general advice: 
Don't miss the judges briefing in the morning.

Bring a crate, make sure you take a ton of treats and sealed bag or container (in NADAC you CAN have the treats in your pocket) for the ones you're going to use post run, bring a crate, chair, water bowl and water bottle. Don't be afraid to volunteer and talk to people - the jobs are easy and people are nice.

If I remember which Funraiser this is, it's indoors, which means a lot of the outside stuff isn't worth worrying about right now. 

And it's going to be a long day; take food.


----------



## CptJack

Also, hey, if you keep doing NADAC we'll likely crossover at some point! I will eventually add a few NADAC TN trials to my usual NRV/NC ones. I'm a little more free next year and there are a ton at a place called Finley (or Finnley or something similar) farm that I really want to do.


----------



## emmybear

We're entered in 16 runs over the two days. It's a double run format. Is it frowned upon to scratch some runs if we need to? I went a little crazy when entering since it was the same price no matter how many runs. I'm not too concerned about Renegade getting physically tired. More myself or if he gets a bit stressed. 

With double runs, I know it's one walk through two runs, but is the second run just a reverse of the first course? 

These are the runs we have:
09/02/2017 Hoopers 1 16 Nov Std S
09/02/2017 Hoopers 2 16 Nov Std S
09/02/2017 Jumpers 1 16 Nov Std S
09/02/2017 Jumpers 2 16 Nov Std S
09/02/2017 Regular 1 16 Intro Std S
09/02/2017 Regular 2 16 Intro Std S
09/02/2017 Touch N' Go 1 16 Nov Std S
09/02/2017 Touch N' Go 2 16 Nov Std S

09/03/2017 Barrelers 1 16 Nov Std S
09/03/2017 Barrelers 2 16 Nov Std S
09/03/2017 Chances 1 16 Intro Std S
09/03/2017 Chances 2 16 Intro Std S
09/03/2017 Regular 1 16 Intro Std S
09/03/2017 Regular 2 16 Intro Std S
09/03/2017 Tunnelers 1 16 Nov Std S
09/03/2017 Tunnelers 2 16 Nov Std S

I'm not too sure how Hoopers or Chances will go but should be fun to try. I'm super duper looking forward to Tunnelers. It's definitely Renegade's favorite obstacle and his main speed is gogogo so should be fun even if we mess up completely.

ETA: Also, its outside. But we're used to practicing outside at class. It's the one in Lancing, Tn.


----------



## CptJack

emmybear said:


> We're entered in 16 runs over the two days. It's a double run format. Is it frowned upon to scratch some runs if we need to? I went a little crazy when entering since it was the same price no matter how many runs. I'm not too concerned about Renegade getting physically tired. More myself or if he gets a bit stressed.
> 
> With double runs, I know it's one walk through two runs, but is the second run just a reverse of the first course?
> 
> These are the runs we have:
> 09/02/2017 Hoopers 1 16 Nov Std S
> 09/02/2017 Hoopers 2 16 Nov Std S
> 09/02/2017 Jumpers 1 16 Nov Std S
> 09/02/2017 Jumpers 2 16 Nov Std S
> 09/02/2017 Regular 1 16 Intro Std S
> 09/02/2017 Regular 2 16 Intro Std S
> 09/02/2017 Touch N' Go 1 16 Nov Std S
> 09/02/2017 Touch N' Go 2 16 Nov Std S
> 
> 09/03/2017 Barrelers 1 16 Nov Std S
> 09/03/2017 Barrelers 2 16 Nov Std S
> 09/03/2017 Chances 1 16 Intro Std S
> 09/03/2017 Chances 2 16 Intro Std S
> 09/03/2017 Regular 1 16 Intro Std S
> 09/03/2017 Regular 2 16 Intro Std S
> 09/03/2017 Tunnelers 1 16 Nov Std S
> 09/03/2017 Tunnelers 2 16 Nov Std S
> 
> I'm not too sure how Hoopers or Chances will go but should be fun to try. I'm super duper looking forward to Tunnelers. It's definitely Renegade's favorite obstacle and his main speed is gogogo so should be fun even if we mess up completely.


Double run format is the exact same course twice. Regular in NOT double run format is usually round 2 being the reverse of round 1 (and you get a separate walk through for the 'backward' one), but in double run it's all exactly the same, so you've got two shots to get the Q, and you can get 2 Qs on the same course (you'd think that would happen frequently, but somehow it rarely does.) and you're absolutely right - it will speed the trial up. 

No one will think twice if you scratch runs - happens all the time for all sorts of reasons down to the handler going 'Eh, I don't wanna'. Certainly it happens when the dog needs it and people are going to approve of you looking out for your dog. 

You'll be okay with intro chances I think - you might get some off courses or miss a thing due to young wild dog, but you won't have any trouble with the distance line, I'm about 98% sure ;-) Hoopers is much the same and it's stupid, stupid fast because the dogs don't have any real obstacle performance, it's just path. Kylie loves it more than tunnelers. IDEK, man.


----------



## CptJack

emmybear said:


> ETA: Also, its outside. But we're used to practicing outside at class. It's the one in Lancing, Tn.


take shade if you can at all, wear a hat with a bill or sunglasses, and use sunscreen, is about all that really changes there. If you *can't* take shade/don't have an EZ-up or something make friends with someone who does. It's a really long time to be outside in the sun. ...and if it's raining take dry socks and a spare pair of shoes.


----------



## emmybear

CptJack said:


> Also, hey, if you keep doing NADAC we'll likely crossover at some point! I will eventually add a few NADAC TN trials to my usual NRV/NC ones. I'm a little more free next year and there are a ton at a place called Finley (or Finnley or something similar) farm that I really want to do.


Finny Farm? In Greenback, Tn? That's like 1 1/2 hrs ish from me so I definitely plan to take advantage of the trials there at some point. Depending on how this weekend goes I may even enter some this year. We're definitely going to stick with NADAC. It seems super fun and we can't even do AKC until Renegade is neutered because he's not registered. I don't know much about any other venues. 

Finny Farm also has UpDog which I'd like to try at some point. Renegade is a disc nut. I don't know much about UpDog but it sounds fun.


----------



## CptJack

emmybear said:


> Finny Farm? In Greenback, Tn? That's like 1 1/2 hrs ish from me so I definitely plan to take advantage of the trials there at some point. Depending on how this weekend goes I may even enter some this year. We're definitely going to stick with NADAC. It seems super fun and we can't even do AKC until Renegade is neutered because he's not registered. I don't know much about any other venues.
> 
> Finny Farm also has UpDog which I'd like to try at some point. Renegade is a disc nut. I don't know much about UpDog but it sounds fun.


That's the place! Right now the trials I regularly do are Blacksburg, Roanoke, and Yadkinville, NC, but I have an adult kid with his own transportation now who can easily do animal care for the ones that don't go, so Going to Finny is really appealing - plus I see a lot of stuff from her FB. UpDog, BarnHunt, FarmDog testing. I WISH I lived closer - it's only about 4 hours but is right on the edge of uncomfortable so I haven't so far. Planning, though.

And yeah, NADAC and AKC are about my options and I'm not doing AKC. Both because I don't want to neuter young and well. Other stuff that amounts to objection to giving them money.


----------



## emmybear

Slightly off topic from agility, but I know you have several dogs. Have you ever noticed whether spaying/neutering decreases drive in dogs? Toy drive, food drive, anything. Or if a dog is already pretty driven, will it stay that way? Renegade is my first dog that I've really ever trained and that's been medium/high drive. I'm a bit concerned that I'll lose that if he's neutered.


----------



## CptJack

I have noticed absolutely no behavioral differences with altering. The girls I spayed fairly young (under a year), but boys it's usually 3-8 YEARS old and I've never seen any real change except slightly better focus and needing fewer calories. Otherwise, no changes either positive or negative. I think a lot of what gets attributed to altering (not early stuff but in general) is just really the result of 'things that happen as dogs age' - and I mean both the good stuff and the bad.


----------



## CptJack

Emmybear _ How'd it go?


----------



## cookieface

Katie has been doing better in class, but still "shut down" towards the end of our second run last week. Today, our groomer discovered that she still had a stitch in her toe. I'm crossing my fingers that when that's removed she'll start to return to her previous level of agility enjoyment.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie broke 4 YPS in regular today (last class of the day, after 7 hours at the trial, in 85 degree heat), and is over half way to her NATCH points in that class. She broke 4.5 in Jumpers this morning. Molly? Got her novice jumpers title, but she also FELL ASLEEP at the trial and was a chilled out good dog. Nice day all around. We'll see how tomorrow goes - Kiran's coming with us, and I'm going to be stressed and extra exhausted, but should be fun.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie broke 4.5 YPS today in regular. For context, this was my 'big' goal speed wise for the year - in Tunnelers. Regular is not tunnelers. At all. So, you know. Holy crap, go little dog, go.










If I ever call her slow again, slap me. 

And finished her Elite Jumpers title. That means from here on out, it's Jumpers Natch points. 

She's also got more than half her regular NATCH points. 

Molly got her open tunnelers title today.









And continued not to be stressed at ALL.


----------



## CptJack

I haven't done any real video in 6 months. Got some of Molly tonight.











I am extremely confident in saying progress is being made.


----------



## Life With Atlas

Atlas and I finished his starter agility class - probably with honours, if they were going to give that out! Lol. He did *really* well and definitely makes me proud. 

Just a quick question to see if anyone else has experienced this, and suggestions. He loooooves all the obstacles, except for jumps! He will take a tunnel if you go by it, he will go up and over the A frame, no fear (at all) of the teeter, etc. But will completely avoid the jumps sometimes! (Unless of course, there's a tunnel or something worthwhile at the end.) 

At our last drop in class, we were working some jumps and he started off wonderfully, but by the end was opting to follow me around them versus going over. (I'm not discounting that he may have found them to be boring after numerous repeats of very similar sequences.) He is young (15 mths), but the jumps are quite low. I'm sure it's a combination of a bunch of different factors - they aren't fun/challenging, I'm pulling him off with my body (lack of forward movement on my part), and not cueing him soon enough. The ladies suggested I start telling him over sooner, and I will definitely try to get that going! Since I'm learning, and he's getting better and faster, I sometimes forget to cue ahead. (Running and trying not to trip in the pen is hard sometimes!) I'm hoping to borrow a couple jumps and try and build some value into them (jumps are awesome and you get lots of treats!) and maybe work at more distance when sending him so he learns to lock on and go versus trying to watch me and being pulled off. 

I'll attach a couple video links from the last time, so you can see. 

https://flic.kr/p/Yhb1Dm - start of class

https://flic.kr/p/XDvd9c - a full sequence, this is where they suggested calling out the jump after he exits the tunnel and to step beyond the jump to encourage him over it. You can see how keen he is to go over them to get to the tunnel though! (The run previous I was thinking I didn't want him so far ahead just yet so didn't call tunnel and he pulled himself off at the last minute - the ladies told me to just call it and let him go, so that's what I did time and it worked out very smoothly.) 

Any suggestions or video links would be great!


----------



## CptJack

Both building value in them and calling ahead will help.

I suspect, without being positive, that most of your 'problem' right now is actually that when he can see a whole line going ahead and can choose his take off place on his own and adjust his own stride that he's more confident. And that when you're trying to set up and 'do jumps', late with your cues, you're in his space (at all, according to him), or you're trying to choose where he takes off from his confidence in getting over isn't there. So he pulls off the jump - or dodges around it. 

That said, that's based on your text. I can't watch video right now, but will come back once I do.


----------



## CptJack

Nevermind - I got the video to load on this machine. 

Yeah. You're late - like I'd be cuing 'over' the second he emerged from the tunnel in the first bit. You're also basically really, really close which isn't giving him room to pick a take off spot - or land, when you're asking him to jump toward you in the serp. 

Build value in them but mostly, I'd say in this case 'earlier cues, more distance' is going to be what you need most. Well, that and maybe a touch less handler focus and a touch more obstacle focus.

He looks FANTASTIC for a baby dog though! Congrats on graduating!


----------



## Lillith

Note I'm no expert, but we had similar problems when I started. My instructor always yelled "GET YOUR HAND UP!!!" I noticed your hands kind of stay by your waist, or you'll point at the jump and then drop your hand, and Atlas follows your hand. Keep it up until he takes the jump. If you want to get that dog out, point with your hand! (Watch CptJack's videos. The dog is like fricken halfway across the field and she's got her hand up in the air directing the dog perfectly and omg) Open up! Make your body face that jump! Hands down means "come towards me" or stop.

In the serpentine, step farther away from the dog when he's coming toward you, he needs a bit more room to do the jump proper. You're blocking him with your body. That's when you put your hands down so he comes toward you a bit, then throw it back up to get him to take that jump.

One thing that helped me, I did the course without voice cues. Only my body. Guess what? Darn dog did better than with voice cues, because I was paying so much attention to how my body looked. They pay more attention to your body than you even realize. Once I started using body cues as my "main" communicator and voice as a "helper," it really started to change our performance.


----------



## Life With Atlas

Thanks ladies! So very sorry for not replying - this weekend was just busy enough that I didn't have time to sit down and write a thoughtful reply. 

I am going to jot down these points in my phone and go over them again before our next drop-in class (hopefully this Friday). It's funny because I tend to crowd the jump to take one of his 'exits' away from him, so will make a point of giving more space (and cueing sooner). 

Lillith, good call about the hand up - I noticed it in the video but didn't put it together! I will also do that next time as well. I think some of that stems from puppy classes where he was smaller, and encouraging him to go through the tunnel (hand down) or over a bang board (hand down to keep his balance/attention on the obstacle) or even now to encourage contacts (though lately I haven't been using my hand, just stopping my body movement to get him to pause, as he's catching on that he needs to stop at the bottom). So now that I don't have to baby him quite as much (even though I want to, haha) I need to work on my position. 

I think that because we just finished a starter class, and almost all of the other dogs weren't as, um, focused as Atlas (lots of zoomies by everyone else!) that the focus was introducing obstacles and a bit on our positions, but not as much as I need now. Hopefully the drop in classes will help with that too. The ladies touched on some of these points already, so hopefully we (me) can continue to improve!


----------



## CptJack

A lot of it's just lack of experience and confidence in both you and the dog. In fact almost every one of those issues that I pointed out (not crowding him, distance, getting out of his way, earlier cues) is down to trusting the dog to go where he needs to go rather than micromanaging him/body blocking him into the correct path and him trusting you enough to be able to feel confident enough to 'leave' you.

You can and probably should work on earlier cues and getting off him and building obstacle focus, but mostly? 

He's not even 18 months old, yet, and it's a new game to you, too. 

I will say the handling thing pretty much does not matter. I see people run with their arms down only occasionally 'flicking' out for an obstacle and people with their arms straight in the air (that one being me). Once you figure out what you're doing and it gets consistent the dog will learn to read it. There are 'styles' and 'methods' and all, but as my agility instructor has told me repeatedly: There is no real 'right' way to agility.


----------



## CptJack

In the next few months either my agility skills are going to take a leap forward or my head is going to explode from frustration - at myself. Which one will happen first is a mystery - just like WHY THIS IS SO FREAKING HARD FOR ME.


----------



## AsherLove

Don't be afraid to stop in your course and give treats for the jumps as well. I see this a decent amount in the agility classes I have gone to. Some dogs don't find jumps motivating. The contact equipment usually gets a lot of treats as you work to train the contacts (so a lot of dogs will bolt to the a frame expecting treats), and tunnels often seem to be very satisfying to dogs naturally, but jumps often get neglected as far as rewarding goes.
So just because the instructor gives you a course to do, don't be afraid to stop and give a quick treat to help build his desire to take them.

My 19 month old standard poodle just started back into agility after a 7 month break or so. He was SUPER motivated start of class but his dang hair wraps piss him off in the tunnels and demotivate him, so as class went he got less enthusiastic. I've reworked his banding/wrapping and I'm hoping that makes a good difference next class.


----------



## CptJack

The trial I have this weekend is offering a special challenge - run the course and Q _without_ helping course build or walking, and you get a pin along with your Q ribbon. 

I think this sounds wicked fun and am probably going to try it. I also think I might have lost my mind.


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> The trial I have this weekend is offering a special challenge - run the course and Q _without_ helping course build or walking, and you get a pin along with your Q ribbon.
> 
> I think this sounds wicked fun and am probably going to try it. I also think I might have lost my mind.


That sounds REALLY fun! And a little scary! You'll have to let us know how it works out!

I'm taking Mr. Benjamin to his first agility trial in November (November 5). I'm half scared and half excited!


----------



## CptJack

Today was a weird one. We only got one q - but I saw so much crazy big progress in so many things I just don't care. She is doing stuff that was beyond us even a little while ago - like switching into a 180 (tightly, without spinning or me having to do a giant old U to get it) and switching out with huge amounts of distance and even doing a lot more distance than I've ever seen just - Meh. Screw the Qs. This was my Year of Yet, and the amount of better we are from last year is insane.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Our Sept. 1st trial was cancelled due to the fires but we competed in one on Sept. 9th. Lucy did really well, getting two Q's in Advanced Snooker and one Q in Standard and one in Gamblers. Our next trial is on November 4th, an indoor trial and that is the last one for this year. I have her entered in four classes each day, Standard, Gamblers, Jumpers and Snooker each day. One more Snooker Q and she will be in Masters. Just hope we do not get a lot of snow before then as it is about a four hour drive each way. We will be staying in a Motel, too late in the year for camping.


----------



## CptJack

While waiting for Kiran to get old enough for our club's foundation classes AND them to come around again (so either late December or April, depending) Kiran's been doing some flyball drop ins with a friend's team. I have to say, for foundation skills and just working around other dogs in a busy environment? This is pretty gold. Weird as heck for me, but GOLD.

Kylie has also gone once and will again and while, again, really not ideal - even one practice/lesson was really good for her confidence and independence. 

Agility is still definitely my sport, and I don't think tournaments are an environment I can hack, but I'd totally let these people borrow my dog (Well Kiran, no one's borrowing Kylie) if they needed to. Mostly though - surprisingly useful training for agility.


----------



## AsherLove

My standard poodle is now the a-hole dog racing around, not listening, shutting down, etc that everybody hates, no one more than me. We are going back to one obstacle click-treat/toy, one obstacle click-treat-toy


----------



## cookieface

AsherLove said:


> My standard poodle is now the a-hole dog racing around, not listening, shutting down, etc that everybody hates, no one more than me. We are going back to one obstacle click-treat/toy, one obstacle click-treat-toy


OMG, are you sure you don't have my standard poodle? I'm seriously thinking about giving up on agility because it's incredibly frustrating and demoralizing. Freaking dog _never_ begs for food at home - two weeks ago in class she would not leave the instructor alone because she had wheat thins. Ugh. I feel your pain.


----------



## emmybear

CptJack said:


> Emmybear _ How'd it go?


I totally meant to update here ages ago, not more than a month and a half later!!:redface: 
Life has just been unbelievably busy since then. 

The trial was fun and a major learning experience. Only one 5 point q from the whole weekend but I didn’t go into it expecting them so that was fine. We had a bunch of near q’s though and runs where certain things were just great. He nailed his contacts all weekend(he’s totally blowing them off right now but that’s a story for a different post). He got distracted a bunch and went to visit ring crew but came back to me and did stuff. I was incredibly proud of that. 

The first day was cold and rainy an we both loved it. We had a bunch of runs that were great except for a few things. We had a Touch and go run which was perfect except he decided to turn around at the top and come back down the a frame to sniff for no discernible reason. Maybe stress, but he finished the rest of the run perfectly. There were a couple incidences of him skipping the last obstacle to run to his leash. That was partially because the leash runner put the leash directly in front of the last obstacle not very far from it. It was no big deal, just let me know it’s something I need to work on. 

Overall, we had no q’s on Saturday but I was really proud of him. For our first trial, he did great. He did things with me , didn’t stress too much, and was able to settle in his covered crate all day and chill out between runs. Very minimal barking when I left him. 

The second day was a different story. I know know I should have stuck with just one day. We may have been fine if it had been as cool as the first day but it was about 20 degrees hotter and we were both tired. He was kind of off from the beginning. We had a couple runs that didn’t really stand out. They weren’t great but weren’t awful either. He was just tired and hot I think. Then he discovered he could run out of the ring. Since he hadn’t all weekend, I wasn’t prepared for it and it terrified me. I was so worried he would offend some dog and they would start a fight and he would get hurt. I should of just requested the gated shut and had a training run or just been done for the day but I didn’t want to end on that note. 

He ran out of the ring again near the end of the run and the judge very politely informed me that we’d be excused from the trial if it happened again. I completely understood, it’s a huge safety concern after all. However, it was hot and Renegade had scared me by running out again and I got a bit emotional and cried a bit. It was super embarrassing but everyone there was incredibly supportive and kind. Someone even gave me a hug. I was ready to be done for the day but was encouraged to just go out and do 1 or 2 obstacles, throw a party and leave the ring. I went out there, went to take his collar/leash combo off and he was not having it. Not sure why he didn’t want it off but I walked out, scratched that run and just chillled and played with him for a while. By the time the next run for us came around, he seemed a lot calmer and happier so I decided we would try again. 

That was when we ended up with our first q. It was only a 5 point q but after it being a long day, I was seriously proud. He got a second wind, went out and played with me and we got a q. The only runs left of the day were tunnelers. We did them because he absolutely loves tunnels so I thought he’d enjoy them. He did great except blowing off the last tunnel for both runs to run to his leash. We’d never used his Rush To Tug martingale leash in class before and I think it was just too exciting for him at the trial. 

At first I was discouraged by how things went on Sunday but then later I watched the videos of some of our runs. They weren’t awful, especially for how hot and tired we were. Really, things went awesome!! At not even 2 yet, he’s still very much a disctractable baby dog. We also had only been doing agility for about 5 months by the time we trialed. And we were only rarely doing full courses by that point. 

Overall, I’m thrilled with how it went and am truly glad I entered it. He really did fantastic for how green we both are. I’m going to wait a while to enter another trial for a while so we can work on the things that we need to and get better. Also, work on more impulse control, obedience, and get him neutered. The trial was a huge asset in identifying problem areas that don’t really show up in class. 

Everybody there at the trial was so incredibly nice and supportive, a bunch of them gave me advice at various times. Even the judge stopped us to tell us that if we just keep working hard, we’ll make a really great team someday. I also got to video a NATCH 16 run(I think it was 16, might of been 7). It was really awesome. 

I also got recruited to go try UpDog at Finny Farm because I was playing frisbee with him at the trial. We haven’t had a chance to go yet because of car issues but we definitely will. I love agility, but he is truly insane for a disc. 

I just really can’t express what an experience the trial was for me in so many ways. He made mistakes, I made more mistakes, but it was really fulfilling and enlightening. 

*Sorry for the ridiculously long dissertation of a post I just typed out. If anyone even reacts half of it, kudos to you haha.


----------



## CptJack

I read it all and that sounds like a really, really, *Really* excellent first trial!


----------



## CptJack

NADAC is undergoing some rule changes as Sharon is no longer participating in the running of it - she's handed it over to Chris and Amanda. One of the changes is that any rule change that requires you to alter your training or would be 'negative' will be put into practice 6 months after being announced. The other is that the handbook is being kept up to date. The YPS requirement changes have also been part of this.

Tonight's change?

1-) Bypassing the last obstacle is no longer a 20pt fault - or any more fault than bypassing any other obstacle. You lose time, but do not get other faults. You can fix it and Q. It's just like any other 'refusal' in NADAC (which doesn't call refusals)

2-) Startline stay/training : Once you have left your dog you can not cross BACK across the plane of the first obstacle. If you do, you are eliminated. But as long as you don't cross back across the plane of that first obstacle you *CAN* go back.

...I'm liking all of this stuff. Just for pure consistency.


----------



## emmybear

I really love that change with regards to the last obstacle. We had quite a few runs at the trial that were otherwise decent where he just ran on by the last obstacle and I wished I could’ve fixed it just like the other obstacles. It was mainly when the last obstacles were hoops which he sometimes still ignores.
I need to make a couple hoops or buy them to practice with at home. And make more jumps and stick in the ground weave poles while I’m at it.


----------



## CptJack

emmybear said:


> I really love that change with regards to the last obstacle. We had quite a few runs at the trial that were otherwise decent where he just ran on by the last obstacle and I wished I could’ve fixed it just like the other obstacles. It was mainly when the last obstacles were hoops which he sometimes still ignores.
> I need to make a couple hoops or buy them to practice with at home. And make more jumps and stick in the ground weave poles while I’m at it.


I've never really understood the last obstacle being 'special' in that you weren't allowed to fix it, when refusals weren't called/things anywhere else in the venue. I suspect it had something to do with Sharon's ideas about dogs being in control in and out of the ring and dogs not dashing out the gate or to grab leashes and tug, but frankly keeping the tug rules and 'don't leave the ring' rules in place cover that just fine and I'm glad Amanda and Chris have changed that. I've lost Qs to it in the past and really? It disproportionally punishes new handlers and green dogs and I particularly hate it for that (as well as it just plain being inconsistent and dumb).

The startline thing is largely irrelevant to me, but it's hugely helpful for a lot of people I know. Not because the dog the dog won't stay, but because sometimes the dogs won't GO, LOL. So you have to step back and get your dog off the line? Qs gone. Also particularly problematic if they're doing a huge lead-out. I get not wanting to spend 93 years because people spend forever positioning and going back to their dog to make sure it stays but 'even one step back' was just frustrating and dumb and kind of really got in people's way - and willingness to run in NADAC. 

Honestly, Chris and Amanda are just more organized and reasonable and I"m happier than I was with a lot of Sharon's rapid fire COURSE changes and criteria changes with little to no notice. 

(I used to have a yard. Now I mostly have agility equipment  Stuff's addictive).

Trial this weekend. I'm looking forward to it but eyeing the weather. One day warmish and rain the other freezing and cloudy with chances of some SNOW? Hokay. (Also no one's gotten nearly enough training lately and I have no idea what's going to happen with this but should be interesting!)


----------



## CptJack

Today's trial was at a public park we often use. We usually have spectators, there, and about 98% of them are awesome and the biggest thing going on is asking people to move back from the fence a little. Lots of kids, lots of people asking questions, some people interested in doing it with their dogs, the usual and almost all of them are fairly respectful.

Then there's the other 2%. Or not even. 

last year, a woman showed up with 2 off leash labs, running along a fence we had crates against, scaring the crap/starting fence fights with dogs IN those crates. Pitched a fit when told to leash her dogs. She was back this year. Same dogs, still off leash, only the fit she threw was bigger. I am STILL angry and it's been hours.


----------



## CptJack

" NADAC will start including more technical aspects to many courses, along with open flowing aspects as well." From one of the heads of NADAC. I have no complaints but I do have a tongue in cheek 'you could have told us before we saw said technical challenges on course, in a trial!

I don't even know HOW to describe what showed up on my regular courses this weekend beyond 'hard' and 'lots and lots of potential off courses and discriminations everywhere' - and I DON"T mean contact/tunnel discriminations! I mean 'call off an obstacle 2 feet away at an odd, often sharp angle to get the correct obstacle.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and Molly got her first open regular Q (only open dog to have a clean run on that course) and an elite tunneler's Q and 2nd (this is important to me because running 16", it's a big class with a lot of very good dogs). Kylie got a regular Q in spite of suddenly technical courses and she also got a second open chances Q. We're getting this distance thing.

Other things happened/were better, but those are the big ones.


----------



## Sibe

NADAC trial last weekend. Kaytu has been in classes only 6 months but I entered her in a few runs for fun.

First time at a trial, first time in a horse arena, first time running on dirt. Weird rocky start, she did the "husky arc" out and I didn't want to lose her to the smells so called her in and we did the last jump. As far as I'm concerned that was a fantastic first ever trial run in such a different, busy environment. This is a huge trial.
Jumpers - https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10104118871141203/?type=3

I didn't get her TnG run recorded but she did the first jump, did husky arc around the next 3 obstacles, I got her back and she did everything else, did awesome.

Tunnelers! We were over on SCT by 10 seconds (over by 26 seconds the first round) but SHE DID IT ALL. Woohooo!!!
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10104122565647383/?type=3

Then we have my amazing Denali. She got two Elite TnG Qs, her Novice Barrelers title plus a Q, her Elite Regular title, and her Open Tunnelers title plus a Q. She ran SO HAPPY and nailed her Regular weaves. This course we didn't Q on either time, but I just love how happy she was.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10104127573511583/?type=3


----------



## CptJack

NADAC course maps don't show up online very often, so here - have one.

Marked with my final handling decisions (with Kylie) after a lesson of breaking it down and trying different stuff. Not the decisions I made in trial, and we practiced all sorts of things but with Kylie? What's marked ended up being the best option for us - smoother, faster, and frankly a lot of fun.


----------



## dogsule

Haven't been here in awhile. Belle and I are still doing agility and since getting a new puppy (Raya) this summer I have discovered something. Belle is much more relaxed at trials now with Raya along. I have been taking Raya with to trials since the week after we got her at 9 weeks. She has been totally fine with all the noise, dogs and people at the trials so far. Belle and I have even gotten our first double Q as she finally got out of Excellent Jumpers and into Masters Jumpers. She has two more Q's to go in the standard class to get her Masters Agility Title. She is running much better now with a pal along, who knew?? Raya is now 6 months and has just started our beginning agility classes and is doing great! Unfortunately we don't have foundation classes around here so I just have to go to what we have. I have a tunnel at home so she was very familiar with the tunnel and going through jumps without the bars up. We did a puppy sort of class this past August which was a combination of socialization/rally/obedience and agility she did very well with it. So at our beginners class she has been introduced to the A frame, she went up and over, no fear. Also the dogwalk, up over and across, again no fear. In the class it was just an introduction to them, it was up to the individual dogs how far they would go. Monday night she saw the teeter for the first time. My trainer doesn't like to start with the teetered lowered, she feels they need to see it as it is, how they will do it. Belle was terrified of the teeter for quite some time so I really wanted to start with it lower but seeing Raya seemed to be a more confident dog I just went with it. So first we just were going to have her put her feet on the end and treat, then let it up a bit so she could put her feet on the end and bang it slightly. Well she just went up and to the middle right off the bat so we let her weight lower the other end down and guided it down, no bang. She was only slightly leery of the fact that it moved when she walked to the middle. She really wasn't afraid of it at all and we ended up letting her up and over it several times, only letting it bang midly. I cannot believe she can be so calm about the teeter after the way Belle was, Belle still has a love/hate relationship with that thing! I am so hoping she will stay this nice accepting dog with all that is agility and will enjoy it. So far she has not been a sniffy dog at class (one to go off sniffing everything like Belle was) but I can see she will be a tunnel sucker for a bit. lol!

My agility girls...
IMG_2613ac by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## lauren17

I don't post here much but I finally took Roo to a trial recently. He's been ready in classes for awhile but he tends to lose his mind when other dogs run so I was nervous about trialing. We went to an ASCA trial and although he didn't Q I was overall happy enough with him in that we met our goal that he didn't pee on anything or completely take off on me. He got too over aroused beforehand like I expected when waiting his turn so he was a little wild on the course and knocked bars, blew past a couple jumps and missed his weaves entry but he called back to me each time and I was able to redirect him back easily. His last run was almost perfect if he hadn't noticed my mom in the crowd at the last jump and veered toward her instead of taking the jump. I was also really happy with how nice and helpful everyone at the trial was about his barking while waiting in line. That is my main worry about getting him out to trials.. This weekend we are attempting our second trial, it is CPE so I'm hoping it will be a nice easy course for us and we are first in running order so hopefully that will help with keeping him focused!


----------



## crysania

Awesome! Congrats on getting out there and keeping him focused enough to run with you. I have a dog who sounds a LOT like yours. He is very excited about other dogs and will sometimes start barking and not stop when he can't run over and play with them. We went to our first trial this past weekend (CPE) and he DID take off, but I was able to get him back! And like you, no Q's, but he worked with me and did some really nice work when we were out there.

Good luck this weekend!


----------



## Kyllobernese

Went to a trial last weekend. Lucy ran really well, just one mistake in a couple of classes so no Q's in them but did get a Q in Advanced Standard. The best thing though was that the two judges choose the happiest dog and handler and Lucy and I won it. It gives us free entries in their next trial which won't be until next March. With very limited trialing, Lucy is in Advanced in all her classes and just needs one more Q in Advanced Standard and Advanced Snooker and 2 Q's in Gamblers and Jumpers to move into Masters.

We train every Wednesday and Saturday although will miss some now that the weather is getting colder. We do train unless it is -10C (about 25F) as the arena is not heated.


----------



## lauren17

Crysania, yes that is exactly how Roo is! He's slowly improving I think, but it is so hard to get his brain back once he gets into that excited barking mode. He is an awesome dog when he's focused though so hopefully getting him out to new places more will help. My plan is to do one trial a month for now. Unfortunately my classes will be ending in December and won't start up again until March. I'm hoping I can find somewhere else to take them for the winter.. on another note, my newer pup turned 1 in September and we've started really training for agility. I think she will be ready to trial next spring and she's turning out to be a fun little dog!


----------



## crysania

Haha yup -- our dogs sound so much alike! Ben is AMAZING when he's on. And he's gotten better at refocusing on me (I mean, he ran off all crazy-faced but came back and worked at the trial!). But still, it's a work in progress. And very different from my previous dog who stressed WAY down and so wouldn't move if things stressed her out. 

Check out "show 'n' goes" and "fun matches" too. Some places will have fun matches that are trial-like but allow toys and/or treats in the ring. You can get out, do a bunch of stuff...run a course, work on contacts, work on focus, whatever you want, for a couple minutes in a trial-like atmosphere. Usually you can sign up for a few runs, so it's SUPER helpful. We don't have many here, which sucks, but I know some places have a lot of them!


----------



## crysania

Kyllobernese said:


> Went to a trial last weekend. Lucy ran really well, just one mistake in a couple of classes so no Q's in them but did get a Q in Advanced Standard. The best thing though was that the two judges choose the happiest dog and handler and Lucy and I won it. It gives us free entries in their next trial which won't be until next March. With very limited trialing, Lucy is in Advanced in all her classes and just needs one more Q in Advanced Standard and Advanced Snooker and 2 Q's in Gamblers and Jumpers to move into Masters.
> 
> We train every Wednesday and Saturday although will miss some now that the weather is getting colder. We do train unless it is -10C (about 25F) as the arena is not heated.


IMO an award for "the happiest dog and handler" is better than any Q!! Great job!

We train in an unheated barn too, so classes get canceled when it starts to get cold (here we usually give up around 15F to 20F, though my instructor used to have it when it was even colder...we're getting to be more wimpy in our old age! lol). She has a small heated building, but really we can only do little foundation things in there. We also get a LOT of cancellations due to the snow.


----------



## lauren17

Yeah I will have to watch for those, I don't hear of them very often around here tho. My biggest problem is I get so frustrated and embarrassed by him when he starts the barking tantrum and that doesn't help. He can definitely tell when I get upset and then he's really going to be off.. He's a dog that is teaching me a lot though! So different than my last dog too. Boomer was so biddable and handler focused that even when stressed he would give his all. I'm finally getting better about not comparing Roo to my last dog tho and that is making us a much better team! Fingers crossed for a run tomorrow!


----------



## crysania

lauren17 said:


> Yeah I will have to watch for those, I don't hear of them very often around here tho. My biggest problem is I get so frustrated and embarrassed by him when he starts the barking tantrum and that doesn't help. He can definitely tell when I get upset and then he's really going to be off.. He's a dog that is teaching me a lot though! So different than my last dog too. Boomer was so biddable and handler focused that even when stressed he would give his all. I'm finally getting better about not comparing Roo to my last dog tho and that is making us a much better team! Fingers crossed for a run tomorrow!


The comparisons are difficult. I spend a lot of time comparing Ben to Dahlia. Both in the positive and the negative. I mean, Dahlia was slow, methodical, not confident, and tended to stress so far down that she refused to move off the start line. But she wasn't the dog who would lose her head or run off and she gave me lots of time to think on a run. Ben is fast and driven and loves to work but he loses his focus and starts shooting his mouth off pretty easily. He is VERY frustrated by not getting to play with other dogs (dogs are ACE!). At the trial we went to he lost his fool head and started barking at all the other dogs (after someone came WAY too close to us while waiting in line to go out) and the ring gate person actually shouted "This dog is REALLY excited!" to the judge just to let her know why we were delayed in entering. I was sort of mortified.


----------



## lauren17

Yeah I was terrible about comparing mine but only in the bad I guess and that wasn't fair at all and made it hard to bond with Roo. And even though in my head I think like Boomer was so perfect, he did have his issues too that I had to work through. 

Roo's trigger is seeing or hearing other high drive dogs work, whether it's agility, herding, rally whatever. I've worked a lot on making him down stay and be calm while I work my pup and that has helped but he's just an exciteable guy lol. He does well with the lower drive dogs in classes but get another aussie or border collie out and he loses it haha. I'm still trying to find a food reward that he finds more exciting than other dogs but he is the pickiest dog about treats!


----------



## CptJack

The more trials you go to and the more other dogs you see doing this kind of stuff, the more you'll relax, I think. It's really, really, common amongst the agility dogs - everyone's seen it, most people have lived it, no one thinks much about it. Getting super comfortable with the people and setting and having that 'no one notices or cares' thing sink in helps, a lot. And unsurprisingly as your frustration drops, so will the dog's.


----------



## crysania

CptJack said:


> The more trials you go to and the more other dogs you see doing this kind of stuff, the more you'll relax, I think. It's really, really, common amongst the agility dogs - everyone's seen it, most people have lived it, no one thinks much about it. Getting super comfortable with the people and setting and having that 'no one notices or cares' thing sink in helps, a lot. And unsurprisingly as your frustration drops, so will the dog's.


This is so true. Go to even one trial and you will see ALL sorts of things going on. Dogs who are over-excited and have trouble focusing. Dogs who get the zoomies (it once 5 minutes, all the ring crew, the judge, and the handler to catch a Boxer who took off running around the ring). Dogs who get so stressed they leave the ring (one friend's dog ran out of the ring and managed to race out an open DOOR to leave the building). Dogs who stress way down and barely move. Dogs who run off but whose handlers get them back and do good work. Dogs who sniff. Dogs who get running too fast and knock half the bars. Dogs who fly off teeters or A-Frames. And of course, dogs who rock the course. Who might have, the course before or week before or month before, done any of the other stuff. 

You'll see fabulous handlers and ones who are really terrible. You'll see totally confident people (or those who are faking it till they make it!) and some who are a ball of stress.

And MOSTLY you'll see people supporting everyone (though that can depend on the venue and the people involved). I do CPE here and people are always supportive. They were even supportive of my poor girl who used to stress way down and refuse to leave the start line. They were super supportive of my crazy out of control little man. Even the judge ran over to hug me and told me what a great job I did getting the little monster back and working with me.


----------



## cookieface

I'm not sure what Katie's agility future will be (or if it will be), but I'm improving. In class last night we learned / practiced reverse wraps, German turns, and whiskey crosses. My instructor and a classmate graciously ran the course as my dog.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Oh, first trials! I remember those days! It really does take awhile for both you and the dogs to get used to. I've seen some pretty terrible and embarrassing stuff.. but most people are so supportive and have been there.. so it is really no big deal. It will definitely get better as time goes on. I mean.. these are dogs! Dogs will be dogs sometimes.  

We have not done nearly enough trialing this year. Kai got her first AKC STD and JWW titles awhile back. Only entered one other trial.. but my dogs ended up with some kind of mild form of kennel cough or respiratory thing just in time for it. So yeah.. no trial for her. I finally feel like I can get back to CPE now that most people have their Q's for Nationals. We will alternate between one ring AKC trials and CPE trials for the next couple years hopefully. I really hope to be able to trial more this year.


----------



## CptJack

I am in an odd place with trailing. I am planning on adding a couple of trials for Kylie next year... and trialing Molly less. I'm still not adding out of the local area trials with her, and I'm going to do a while of just entering her one day of those trials instead of both. She just pretty consistently is fried on day 2 so. We'll reassess as we go.


----------



## lauren17

Well the trial today went great for me and Roo! 3 runs and 3 Q's/1st places! He knocked one bar but other than that he was perfect and FAST! After his last course we even hung out inside and watched the last couple dogs with no barking! I'm very happy with him and excited for tomorrow!


----------



## dogsule

Belle got her AKC Masters Agility title this past weekend!! Woohoo! It was my goal for this year since late summer when I realized it was possible. 

Saturday our day started out badly with the van not starting, my bil came to the rescue as my husband was out of town. It is an hour drive to the trial from my place, in good weather. We got 2 inches of snow during the night however and it was still snowing. Roads were snow covered and slippery. So I got to the trial late, the walk through for masters jumpers had ended and they were in the 5 minutes till start clock. I had called a friend that was trialing too however and apparently everyone knew I was coming in late and the judge was like go ahead and walk it a few times. I think I thanked her a bunch of times, not sure I could of done it without walking it. I at least knew the course then but didn't have my crosses in mind at all. I didn't have anyone film me as I was in a tizzy and thought it was going to be bad and not a Q anyway. Well we went out there and even though I so did not get myself in the right places for the best crosses, Belle had her listening ears on and did everything I told her to do and we Q'd! This was the course...

Jumpers Run by rzyg, on Flickr

We then went on to Q in Standard also so we got a DQ for the day! FAST did not go so well though but that's ok.

IMG_8627ffc by rzyg, on Flickr

On Sunday I knew I needed one more Standard Q for our Masters title. We started with Jumpers and I knew right away Belle was just not into the game. She did have some pudding poo the night before so I am thinking she wasn't feeling the best. No Q in Jumpers although only one refusal. I wasn't quite sure if Standard would go any better and it started out pretty similar to Jumpers however knowing how she was acting I was prepared for it and with a lot of work on my part she got everything and we got our Q so got our Masters Title. Pretty proud of my little girl. Now in the back of my mind I am actually thinking a MACH may be possible...could it be?? I had pretty much decided it was never going to happen. We have 2 DQ's and 150 points right now. It will be a long way out yet but it is now possibly possible.

IMG_8911ac by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## Sibe

Congrats!!!! That is amazing. Every QQ counts!


----------



## crysania

Ben FINALLY weaved 4 poles! Like real weaving! Now we work some angles and then we'll add 2 more and maybe just maybe we'll get to 6 poles sometime in the near future. We're cutting it close though as far as time to train as the snow is rolling in soon and then we can't do anything outside for far too long!


----------



## CptJack

I have been toying with the idea of quitting agility with Molly. I'm just not good at handling her, and Kylie's right there and so easy and our Q rate is terrible and-

I had a lesson today. We buried my grandmother on Friday. I am running on no sleep, the dog has gotten no exercise. She's a hyped up mess. I took the lesson because I needed to get her out do something with her. To say I went with no expectations would be an understatement; I went in with every intention of doing NOTHING. 

She chased an invisible toy she thought my instructor threw. She ran HUGE laps with a toy in her mouth. She ran from the hayfield to the course to pee - twice. I laughed at her and did not care, because I didn't have the mental bandwidth and you know what?

Best agility I've ever seen from her. Truly, gorgeous, beautiful, stuff and pure, happy joy. 

I fell in love with my dog again and realized (again) just how strongly she responds to my emotional state and how very, very bad pressure is for her. Someday, I hope, that lesson really sticks.


----------



## crysania

I think sometimes the best stuff happens when you're not overly concerned with how it's going to go. Let's YOU relax and amazing how that lets the dog relax!


----------



## CptJack

crysania said:


> I think sometimes the best stuff happens when you're not overly concerned with how it's going to go. Let's YOU relax and amazing how that lets the dog relax!


Yep. In all honesty, Molly stresses me out when she's really, strongly, 'on'. She's loud and pushy and spinny and impatient and about two thirds frantic and then I tense up and then she's stressing up on top of just plain ready to go and -

It can create Situations. It's gotten better, but I was due a reminder about how important chilling the heck out for her is.


----------



## crysania

I got video of Ben doing his little 4-pole weave yesterday. <3


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I have been toying with the idea of quitting agility with Molly. I'm just not good at handling her, and Kylie's right there and so easy and our Q rate is terrible and-
> 
> I had a lesson today. We buried my grandmother on Friday. I am running on no sleep, the dog has gotten no exercise. She's a hyped up mess. I took the lesson because I needed to get her out do something with her. To say I went with no expectations would be an understatement; I went in with every intention of doing NOTHING.
> 
> She chased an invisible toy she thought my instructor threw. She ran HUGE laps with a toy in her mouth. She ran from the hayfield to the course to pee - twice. I laughed at her and did not care, because I didn't have the mental bandwidth and you know what?
> 
> Best agility I've ever seen from her. Truly, gorgeous, beautiful, stuff and pure, happy joy.
> 
> I fell in love with my dog again and realized (again) just how strongly she responds to my emotional state and how very, very bad pressure is for her. Someday, I hope, that lesson really sticks.


I found this true with Belle too when I lost Maya, she ran really well and I wasn't into it at all. She isn't hyper at the trials at all but does stress which makes me stress which makes us run badly at times. Thankfully now though with Raya there she is much more relaxed and things are falling into place better and we are running better.


----------



## Sibe

Denali had a good weekend! We got QQ #4 this weekend! AKC trial. 









Here are the videos I got. 
Premier JWW Q
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10104181586424273/?type=3

Master Standard Q
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10104184430469783/?type=3 

Master JWW (NQ, wrong end of tunnel)
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/vb.19228523/10104184433823063/?type=3 

Master Standard Q, then got a JWW Q after for QQ #4. Watch her table stop on this one, she barely held on. Good girl!
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104186174479773/

Speaking of good girls, they get to dig up gopher holes and then get pizza rolls. We have a tradition with AKC trials where she gets one pizza roll per Q, plus one for a QQ.


----------



## CptJack

Open Versatility for Kylie, the last day of the year. Next trial is the end of January, and that puts her in Elite Chances. Start of this year, I wasn't sure she'd ever get out of novice.


----------



## CptJack

And yesterday's elite jumpers run. I'm REALLY pleased with this one.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

That was a really nice run, CptJack! Love her enthusiasm. 

We had a nice CPE trial this weekend. I really need to get out there and compete some more. Kai just loves it. I've just been too exhausted.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> That was a really nice run, CptJack! Love her enthusiasm.
> 
> We had a nice CPE trial this weekend. I really need to get out there and compete some more. Kai just loves it. I've just been too exhausted.







For pure happy dog, the first run in this video is my favorite - though I screwed up and forgot the discrimination until WAY too late so we lost the Q (and there's a Molly run tacked on at the end).

I love trialing, a lot - and love that the dogs adore it - but yeah. It is EXHAUSTING. I lost all of yesterday to basically just passed out.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie made the top 10 list in NADAC!

For one game. For 12" mixed breeds. At spot 10. 

BUT STILL!


----------



## AsherLove

A couple videos of my crazy poodle in his last couple classes. He has enthusiasm! But I'll take that cause a couple rounds of classes ago he completely shut down at agility.


----------



## Lillith

AsherLove said:


> A couple videos of my crazy poodle in his last couple classes. He has enthusiasm! But I'll take that cause a couple rounds of classes ago he completely shut down at agility.


Hey, he's doing pretty good! Those ears flying around, though!


----------



## CptJack

Baby dog in class. Some actual foundations stuff for the second half but mostly: 
a-) Stable
b-) What's happening airheaded derp 
c-) We're a litttttle heavy on handler focus right now.


----------



## crysania

We FINALLY got back to a class (well a mini-seminar at least). We haven't been in a month and a half. I was super proud of my little man on this 19 obstacle course (the weaves are replaced with a couple 2x2s because we're not weaving yet).


----------



## CptJack

A horse released Kylie from her start-line today. Fortunately just a lesson but LOL!

...Things you just don't (can't) proof for.


----------



## Canyx

This thread is now more relevant to me since I'm taking an agility class with Brae. I'm curious... What do y'all cover in your beginner classes? Week one we did targets, ladder for rear end awareness, contacts on A-frame, tunnel. Week two we did targets, two by two weaves (only going through one set), contacts on dog walk, tunnel (longer, plus curve), and sequencing two jumps (no bars) using a target at the end. It doesn't feel like a lot to me, but I do appreciate that my instructor is very heavy on the foundations. The actual material is easy for Brae since we are a little beyond this just with what I've casually done with him and the best takeaways so far have been just classroom exposure. 

The instructor calls him "the freight train" by the way. That makes me chuckle.


----------



## CptJack

Canyx said:


> . I'm curious... What do y'all cover in your beginner classes?



We start in foundations, not beginner. Week 4 (last week) was the first of any equipment they've seen and that was a plank on the ground, hoops and a shortened tunnel. Everything else is ground/flat work. Recalls to appropriate sides, sending the dog ahead to a target, 2o2o, circling cones/buckets with building distance (and not just around but around and figure 8s or staying out around two and eventually using crosses with them), 2o2o behavior (with nothing and then with a plank on the ground), working around distraction off leash, and start-line stuff. . Sequences with that ground work (ie: plank, hoops, tunnel, barrels or buckets or cones). 

Having taken this class before (well set of classes and 'before' = 4 times) in the next couple of weeks we'll add fast downs for the table, some low jumps and the table. Otherwise, it'll be building behaviors already there for distance, speed and fluency, and general 'reading human behavior'. Longer sequences with actual obstacles.

NEXT seven week class we'll introduce the other equipment and get it and jumps up to height - slowly - and start curving the tunnel and using longer ones. The 7 weeks after that will be adding independence and handling more with the equipment. The 7 weeks after THAT is a focus on actual distance and more complex handling *challenges*. Weaves are an entirely separate 7 week class (I teach them on my own).

No way, no where, no how, would I take a class that introduces things at the speed yours seems to - BUT I know a lot do and it's fine. I also know a lot of places/people who go way slower. If you don't intend to compete and/or you're knowledgeable enough to watch your dog for safety and either fill in gaps yourself or know you're going to have a lot of them when it comes to handling, I doubt it matters. Learning the obstacles is easy for dogs - though some of the specific requirements for safety and Qing for them can be non-intuitive and just blasting through can get you in trouble. The dog listening and being thoughtful is harder. The really hard part, though, is the person and handling the spaces BETWEEN obstacles.

I don't need the class, frankly - we're doing things like serps and treadles and a lot of distance on our various crosses (with hoops, barrel and plank), because I've been playing with the foundation work since he was 4-5 months old. Still done maybe 1 set of jumps at 4" and I still have my a-frame at home down and out of the way. I'll add those things over the next couple of months, as well as weaves.


----------



## Canyx

That's good to know! My instructor successfully competes, and I have no intention of competing. So I see no problems with her methodology. But it's nice to hear that this can be considered 'fast' by some folks.


----------



## CptJack

Instructor competing is important if you want to compete, but it doesn't mean they're teaching a class geared for competition, if you follow. A lot of people just won't tolerate a class with a lot of seemingly boring foundations, that they don't understand the later benefit in. Obstacles are exciting and fun so people want those - and to keep classes filled, and people coming back - they get them.

Average timeline to competing for most dogs is about a year of training. More with first time handlers. (That said, it's something I read somewhere that matches my experiences. It doesn't necessarily mean it's true.)


----------



## Canyx

Yeah, I totally follow you there. I think her class 'allows' for people to move on to more advanced levels and competition, as opposed to the very 'just for fun with obstacles' agility class I teach. The truth is, we are so remote that there aren't many instructors within hundreds of miles (she might be the only one who does group lessons?) and matches are also very rare. People in this area who do compete often drive for many hours to do so. But as someone who scrutinizes every little detail, I think her advice and her methods are very sound. I just finished her nosework class and it was very in-line with what I learned taking the FDSA nosework class. She also goes to Fenzi camps and ClickerExpo and such... So, this is the best I'm gonna get out here


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I prefer a combo of foundation skills (plates, cones, recalls, wobble boards, ladder work etc) and intro to low/shortened obstacles. A lot of people coming into classes have never done good solid puppy classes that have dogs on/around different objects/textures. Tunnels are scary to quite a few dogs. Even the least confident dogs that come through my classes love the low A-frame. It builds up confidence in everyone to keep going on and learn more. I personally prefer my own dogs do both and I feel they both have benefited from it. We learn obstacles are fun/not scary but we are going to work -more- on the foundation stuff. 

Kai being my first agility dog actually didn't have very great foundations IMO. Her first classes were way more obstacle driven than Embers were. We didn't do any targeting or cones, recalls.. anything. We cracked down more on handling once they were all comfortable on the low equipment. But. She is no worse in trials (CPE, AKC) than those I know who had really solid foundations from different teachers. I get a heck of a lot of compliments on her. I do see where she falls short at times.. but all dogs fall short somewhere at different times.

That being said.. high level international competing is a whole different ball game that requires the best of foundation skills IMO. Everyone has different things that work better for them. It really depends if they want to compete or which organizations they want to compete in. These days.. I won't skimp on the heavy foundations even kind of. But I will also introduce my dogs to equipment or at least similar objects to get them ready for it very early on.


----------



## CptJack

I definitely think venue has something to do with it - like I really, really, have to have distance to go very far in most of the NADAC classes. 

I also think the dog you're working with matters, a lot. And by that I mean how likely a fear issue from a negative experience is, as well as difficulty in changing criteria if you need to later. Some dogs are just more forgiving than others. 

I'll never do *international* or international style courses, but I fully intend to do NADAC's national (well, US and canada) event, so there is also that in what I want/expect/look for in classes.


----------



## Lillith

Ralphie had his very first agility trial today! We entered Standard Novice and JWW Novice. The standard one went reasonably well. First thing I did was promptly back into a jump and knock it over, which caused Ralphie to leave early. But, after that, he did quite well. He did miss some of his contacts, wandered for about 2.5 seconds, but he went hard and he went fast when his brain got itself back into gear and his handler figured out what she was doing LOL. He had one too many faults to qualify. I was incredibly proud of the run and everyone said it was really great for the first run ever at a real trial.

In JWW, not only did he qualify, he got first place!










We had only one little misstep with the weaves, but he did them over again because you get 3 tries in Novice. He got a score of 100 with a time of 25.1 seconds.

He also THRIVED in the trial environment, which was my largest worry. He was a stressed out when we first arrived and didn't want to take treats, but I put him in his crate, covered it, and let him hang out for a while. When he came out, he was ready to work. He wanted to see people, he wasn't concerned with other dogs (too much), he was okay with the noise, and loved the cheering. His mouth was open and happy and he was excited to be with me and be doing a thing. Except for that one time at the first run before the weaves, he never lost focus when we ran. He didn't make too much noise in his crate, either, he mostly laid down and watched, which was also a relief.

Ugh, I am just so proud of him! He really exceeded my expectations for the first trial ever!


----------



## CptJack

Kiran and I are on a three week break between agility classes (just finished foundations). I think I am going to be spending that time basically working obstacle focus. 

Every dog is a new challenge. Thus far Kiran's is an excessive amount of handler focus and, as of yet, a total lack of obstacle focus to balance it against. Which means he's trying to do agility while staring straight into my face and let me tell you how well that works (it doesn't).


----------



## Canyx

How have you or your instructors handled dogs who are afraid of the A-frame or dog walk?

I had a very disappointing experience last night. Brae was fearless and awesome, as per usual. But I share the class with a long time student of mine, who I recommended take this instructor's agility course. His dog was afraid of the A-frame last week so the instructor pretty much forced the dog to do it. IE, prevented the dog from backing out and used the leash to make it so that the dog has no choice but to go up and over. _Last week_ the dog in question was fearful at first but was doing the A-frame on his own after a couple tries.

I have seen this instructor do this before (I took this class in the past with Soro). Soro had a little hesitation at first since it was around 8+ years since he's done the A-frame. But when the leash was tightened (ie, he couldn't back out), he went over it and then was perfectly fine afterwards. The hesitation was so slight, and Soro has done A-frames a long time ago; I would have stepped in and intervened if they needed to push him more. A dog in Soro's class was much more fearful and the instructor did the same thing to no avail (she shut down), so instructor picked the dog up and put her on the bottom ramp; rewarded the dog for going down... put the dog on the top;rewarded the dog for going down. Pretty much, forced backchaining. However, the dog was happily doing the A-frame on her own by the end of class.

So back to Brae's class last night, the dog (who was able to do the A-frame last week after a period of fear) approached the dog walk in the same way. The walk was set low, maybe 2-3' off the ground. The instructor did the same thing, forcing the dog to stay on by holding his leash and harness, feeding him treats on it. But it didn't work, at times the dog was hovering because he was being held while trying to jump off, and the dog totally shut down. This was attempted twice. It was so bad that after the experience, the dog tried to leave the classroom multiple times and spent half the class curled up against his owner. This is a dog that I've had in 6+ group classes of my own; I did this dog's intake exam at the shelter and was there when he was adopted. His owner is very devoted. I know this dog almost as well as his owner does and have never seen this dog shut down like this before. Typically, he is super sweet and comes in like a bullet; excessively excited about life. This really broke my heart and was hard to watch. Whatever it's worth, the instructor asked them to stay after class to do some fun exercises to boost confidence; I didn't stay to watch that. During waiting times, the owner individually had his dog do some parkour/shaping type exercises around the dog walk to boost confidence, once the dog was no longer shut down. The dog was happy to perch on the walk and go under it and such... Better. Compared to the fact that the dog wouldn't even LOOK at the dog walk anymore when he was shut down. 

The instructor is a CPDT and other than this approach in agility I have only seen her use positive techniques. I think she has a good eye, in agility and nosework. But I am very disappointed with how the instructor handled this dog. I am not against forcing a dog to work through fear in SOME situations. However, I see this as a totally nonessential exercise and as a non-sport trainer I would have approached it differently. I am wondering... Is this the norm in agility training or what? 

I also don't know what I should have said and done, if anything at all. I would NOT have let that fly with my dog. But I have a good relationship with the dog's owner AND the agility instructor. I felt it wasn't my place to butt in and say anything, but I feel like I 'let' it happen to that dog.

Anyways, generally the class went well. The dog's owner and I are both going to continue to level 2. I am not a sports person in general, so thanks for any perspective you might have!


----------



## CptJack

No. 

That is not the norm. At least not in my experience.

There are things there that *ARE* - lowered A-frame, treats, and, yeah, leash being held and prevention of the dog from bailing, but faced with a dog that afraid it would basically be a shaping session, from 'put your feet on it' to 'take one step' to get the dog over and then raise it. 

But. You really can't 'let' the dog bail off even a low a-frame, either. Not safe at the start and WAY less safe at height and speed. It's just not a thing you can let the dog do. Sometimes the dogs get to the top and kind of freak, even with it lowered and want to jump. At that point dog can be led down, dog can be picked up and put down, but you can't just let them jump off. It's dangerous even at 2 feet high, but it comes REALLY dangerous with speed and full height, so it should never be an escape option to the dog. You don't just DRAG THE DOG OVER though, much less repeatedly and to the point of shutting down. That's a recipe for a career of contact issues.


----------



## CptJack

And for the record, while Kiran's had no exposure to contacts yet:

My instructor back-chains the a-frame and that's my preferred method at home (if I ever put mine back up, oops). So it's contact/2o2o first, then hop onto a table and down the bottom half of the off ramp to the 2o2o, THEN the upramp, down ramp, and contact behavior, THEN it starts raising.


----------



## Canyx

In our class it was 2o2o in one class with the A-frame, 2o2o with the dog walk, full A-frame, full dog walk. This is over 4 weeks. I had no doubt my confident boys could do it. But the way you described it, more backchaining and taking it more slowly, or a fully FLAT obstacle gradually raised, is how I would have done it as a trick trainer...

I just feel like there is no reason this should have happened, at all, in a for-fun class. Or any class...


----------



## CptJack

Canyx said:


> In our class it was 2o2o in one class with the A-frame, 2o2o with the dog walk, full A-frame, full dog walk. This is over 4 weeks. I had no doubt my confident boys could do it. But the way you described it, more backchaining and taking it more slowly, or a fully FLAT obstacle gradually raised, is how I would have done it as a trick trainer...
> 
> I just feel like there is no reason this should have happened, at all, in a for-fun class. Or any class...


You're absolutely right. It's a bad thing no matter what the purpose of the class. 

In a for fun class, it's not fun so you've gained nothing and scared the crap out of a dog. In a competition type class you've gained nothing, scared the crap out of the dog, and have created performance issues. It's just unnecessary and ridiculous and dangerous and sad.

And yeah, definitely more slow. Kiran may or may not get there before the class fully does because I own an a-frame but probably it'll take the full 7 weeks of beginner class/the next session to get the thing up to height after back chaining with it lowered.


----------



## Sibe

QQ #6 today. Yeah!!!!

JWW Q
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104424330897403/ 

Standard Q
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104425071358513/


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Nice runs Sibe! Congrats. 

On the topic of 2o2o and raising equipment.. we start off on board stubbed and rubberized as a dog walk contact. We then lean the board on a table. Then they are introduced to the lowest possible setting on an A-frame/and/or dog walk. We work on our 2o2o criteria and slowly raise the equipment. When I say slowly.. I mean like close to a year or more to reach full height. Same with weave closure (channel weaves) and jump heights. Especially when most of the dogs in class are puppies/teenagers when they start. 

Mini rant: I want to see top trainers with breeds other than Border Collies. I know they are hard to handle and drive fast.. but come on! Of course you look good steering one of those things. Do the same thing with a Dalmatian or something.


----------



## Sibe

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Mini rant: I want to see top trainers with breeds other than Border Collies. I know they are hard to handle and drive fast.. but come on! Of course you look good steering one of those things. Do the same thing with a Dalmatian or something.


 I hear ya. I run a border collie in our class sometimes though and there's just nothing like it. Turns on a something smaller than a dime, slides over the jumps, sends out and pulls in so naturally. It's like he's on a bungee cord. 

We also got QQ #7 on Sunday 
Standard, where she was VERY confused entering the ring then having to turn around. I could not get her turned to face the jump!!! Ended up sideways and called it good enough.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104426541292753/


JWW
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104426826930333/


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Sibe said:


> I hear ya. I run a border collie in our class sometimes though and there's just nothing like it. Turns on a something smaller than a dime, slides over the jumps, sends out and pulls in so naturally. It's like he's on a bungee cord.


Oh yeah they are FUN to run. I don't compete and never will with Ember.. but she is a blast to run in class. I know experienced agility people crave that speed and quick steering. I just get tired of everything being about the Border Collies. 

I envy that you have run Huskies and do it well!

Update on Kai in classes/competing: We are experience ring/and pre-entering ring stress and working on it. I've never felt the need to build toy drive more than now. So that's what we are doing with treat holding tugs and I can already tell she loves tugging away the frustrations. We'll see if it has helped at our AKC trial next weekend.


----------



## Sibe

There was a guy at the trial this weekend running an Airedale. I went out of my way to compliment him. It's always nice seeing terriers, hounds, nordic breeds. Dogs that aren't BCs, Aussie, shelties, and goldens. (I will edit to say, there is of course nothing wrong with running a herding breed or golden, and having a border collie doesn't mean your agility life is necessarily easier! Every dog has their own quirks and challenges, and we all have metaphorical obstacles to overcome in our training and trialing experiences.)


----------



## CptJack

Sibe said:


> There was a guy at the trial this weekend running an Airedale. I went out of my way to compliment him. It's always nice seeing terriers, hounds, nordic breeds. Dogs that aren't BCs, Aussie, shelties, and goldens. (I will edit to say, there is of course nothing wrong with running a herding breed or golden, and having a border collie doesn't mean your agility life is necessarily easier! Every dog has their own quirks and challenges, and we all have metaphorical obstacles to overcome in our training and trialing experiences.)


All of this. 

I mean Kylie's easier to run than Molly for numerous reasons P) and I appreciate people not assuming it's easy with her because she's fast, responsive, and smart/biddable (also get sick of Kylie being massive underestimated, but that's another post complete). 

That said, holy heck I like seeing some variety, too. We're pretty heavily dominated by BCs, aussies, and labs. The 'different' dogs, even the ones that are mixes of the more known ones, keep it interesting and I delight in them being out there! And tell the owners so!


----------



## crysania

My instructor's first agility dog was a Husky. She almost had a MACH on her (the dog ended up tearing an ACL, but not in agility, and had to be retired). She also ran a Vizsla and a Border Collie. And she frequently steps in and runs other people's dogs at trials when they've signed up but can't go. It's nice working with someone who can work with all sorts of dogs! 

The first dog I ran was a slow BC/Golden mix (she looks like a small black Golden Retriever). Super fun but SUPER slow and hilarious to watch. Now I run a "Sprollie" (BC/Springer mix) who is much more what you expect out of an agility dog, but is absolutely ridiculously goofy and takes nothing seriously. He does great and people love to watch him because he's so silly. And I will tell you, he may be what you expect out of an agility dog but he has his own challenges! He's so fast and response that sometimes it's hard to get up ahead of him and just one tiny wrong move and he's going the wrong way. My other dog was much more forgiving!


----------



## Canyx

I really enjoyed MrsBoat's videos of her rotties Ocean and Lars doing agility. Haven't seen her here in a while. But you don't see rotties too often and it's so much fun watching them. Tons of power. 

Brae and I are continuing on in our agility class. He's doing really great. I still notice my instructor does not adjust things and 'makes' her setup work. For example, we did all this work with 2x2 weave poles and I thought "awesome. I've always wanted to go start to finish with this method." And then all of a sudden we are doing a more guided style. Except, we are using barrels and fences to create the guides. The idea is we've done barrel work so the dog will learn to use the barrels to turn around the weave poles (I don't buy it). All of which would have been alright by me... EXCEPT, our barrels are cloth laundry hampers. Even before our first attempt I looked at them and thought "Brae's gonna crash through them." And sure enough, he did, repeatedly. So over the last two weeks that we did this, I've had to lag behind to slow him down through the weaves, and then he sometimes gets them. But I'm losing speed, and footwork is all about speed...

So I am borrowing some weave-o-matics from my shelter and doing those outside of class  That method (and 2x2s) is much more suited for his crash course style.


----------



## Lillith

Canyx said:


> I really enjoyed MrsBoat's videos of her rotties Ocean and Lars doing agility. Haven't seen her here in a while. But you don't see rotties too often and it's so much fun watching them. Tons of power.
> 
> Brae and I are continuing on in our agility class. He's doing really great. I still notice my instructor does not adjust things and 'makes' her setup work. For example, we did all this work with 2x2 weave poles and I thought "awesome. I've always wanted to go start to finish with this method." And then all of a sudden we are doing a more guided style. Except, we are using barrels and fences to create the guides. The idea is we've done barrel work so the dog will learn to use the barrels to turn around the weave poles (I don't buy it). All of which would have been alright by me... EXCEPT, our barrels are cloth laundry hampers. Even before our first attempt I looked at them and thought "Brae's gonna crash through them." And sure enough, he did, repeatedly. So over the last two weeks that we did this, I've had to lag behind to slow him down through the weaves, and then he sometimes gets them. But I'm losing speed, and footwork is all about speed...
> 
> So I am borrowing some weave-o-matics from my shelter and doing those outside of class  That method (and 2x2s) is much more suited for his crash course style.


Maybe the school doesn't have enough money to buy good guides? We actually used thin PVC pipe frames with chicken wire as guides because a lot of the stuff we use is homemade at our school. There's just not a lot of money to invest in better equipment sometimes, so where we can go cheap, we do, and save for the the things that need to be solid like contacts.

Depends on the dog, too. Some people say the guides work best, some use other methods. I liked the guides, personally. But hampers probably isn't going to work too well, lol.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I have a lovely Toller in my class that is just as crazy as a BC and I love to watch her run. I want an agility Toller someday. 

I do miss seeing Ocean and Lars videos.. they could tear up the course! I also wonder what ever happened the OP of this thread with Kit.


----------



## emmybear

I remember reading this whole thread before I started agility. It’s massive but an absolute gold mine for agility theory and problem solving. 

I do wonder what’s happened to some of the posters who have come and gone in this thread and if they continued on with agility. I’ve only posted a couple of times in it but I’ve lurked for a long time. 

I definitely miss seeing videos of some of the dogs. The Lars and Ocean vids inspired me because they showed that even big dogs can be very speedy and do really well on a course.


----------



## CptJack

For what it's worth, I follow some people via FB or other forums - Ocean is still very much killing agility courses. The original author of this thread I ran across a post from a while back on a BC forum. Kit is gone, but she adopted another rescue dog and I believe was going to be doing agility with it.


----------



## CptJack

Also weave methods are all over the place. Everyone's got a favorite. Some take different equipment, some take none, some are more popular or 'on trend' at a given moment. 

I've taught all of my dogs through a combination of luring and shaping with 2x2 for entries, and I've never regretted it. Except with Kylie where it was less method and more protracted, slow, experimentation because I didn't know wtf I was trying to accomplish, really.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Aww that's a shame about Kit.  I know it has been a long time though. I wish I had more FB contact with the members but I don't like to feel "stalky" and add them. haha. 

I like channels for class settings because they are the easiest and fastest to teach in them. I like them for my own dogs because they build speed. They need more proofing on entries. I've really just haven't gotten into 2x2. I don't know why. Maybe because it is so time consuming and complicated. I've done them.. just, meh for me. But so many people love them and for a good reason.


----------



## Canyx

I love that there are so many methods! I don't love that I couldn't pick a different one in class when the one presented wasn't the best option for my dog.


----------



## CptJack

Canyx said:


> I love that there are so many methods! I don't love that I couldn't pick a different one in class when the one presented wasn't the best option for my dog.


I think to SOME degree, this is the hazard of group classes. My instructor is awesome about letting people do their own thing, or providing guidance to work with dogs who need another method - but it's still a group class, and the facility is what it is, the equipment is what is there, and the time she's got is limited. Still tons of adaptation but her suggestion might be 'let's work on this in a private' or 'hold off on this for now, maybe, until we can work it another way'. Or try to find a way to make it work better.

Now, you get her 1 on 1 in a private lesson and she'll not only recognize that something isn't working for you and/or your dog, she'll have a really good read on it and a bunch of suggestions. 

That said, she doesn't do weaves in class with the rest of the equipment at all. It's a separate class or you figure it out yourself. Apparently her experience says once a week for a few minutes a week just isn't enough (and there's not enough time to really adapt/change things within a class setting).

So basically about 4 things your instructor could do there and just... isn't.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Aww that's a shame about Kit.  I know it has been a long time though. I wish I had more FB contact with the members but I don't like to feel "stalky" and add them. haha.
> 
> I like channels for class settings because they are the easiest and fastest to teach in them. I like them for my own dogs because they build speed. They need more proofing on entries. I've really just haven't gotten into 2x2. I don't know why. Maybe because it is so time consuming and complicated. I've done them.. just, meh for me. But so many people love them and for a good reason.


2x2s bore the ever loving crap out of me. I like them for entries, sure. AFTER the dog weaves. Otherwise I recognize they're probably awesome and I'm going to be over here with my 'lure assisted/prompted shaping'. 

Though in fairness, I am experienced with that and know how to do it now.





I broke the 'commonly accepted rules and started shaping him with 6 about 10 months old. One, single, solitary pass of 6 in a day, a couple of days a week. No drilling, no repetition. My goal was for him to get it about a year and be able to do 12, and then start adding speed and independence. 

A-) Nailed it. 

B-) I KNOW what the rules are and why you wait, and I also know why I didn't wait until 12 months and mitigated the risks with lack of repetition, irregular sessions, no speed, and the fact that honestly medium dog at 10 months and hadn't gained height in well over a month, anyway.

C-) NO ONE ELSE DO THIS. 

So basically, now we work entries and independence for the next 6 months. Or 10 years, depending.


----------



## Canyx

Neat! I was going to get Brae going too early (according to agility people). But I laid some nice footwork with the weave-o-matic at a low angle. It is currently a V (pretty much exactly like the letter as it's typed) and I am in no rush. But I have no qualms about him learning weaves. Soro is such a champ. I randomly asked him to do the weaves straight up and he still remembers it, despite no longer having the speed or footwork. I think Sor learned it within 6 weeks of regular practice back in the day.


----------



## CptJack

Weaves are pretty rough on bodies and usually take a lot of repetition when you start training in earnest and there's a pretty good focus on speed, increasing impact, hence the 'wait until growth plates are closed'. 

I wouldn't... advise someone do what I did, but recognizing that my 'method' is non-repetitive, occasional, and starts slow I didn't worry on that account much. If my timing was off and he'd gotten it any faster I would have had to put it aside and do nothing, though, because staying with 'slow' rather than increasing speed and distance/independence with them would have bitten me, too.

But you know, no regrets now. Maybe later, but so far so good and we'll see how it shakes out between now and next fall or so.


----------



## Mutts

Finally get to participate in this thread! I've been meaning to start agility with Thea ever since I got her but things never worked out. Well monday was our first group class and it was an absolute blast! She's been going to daycare once a week at this facility for a few months and the trainers had already started exposing some of the dogs to the equipment. We got to try jumps, platforms and tunnels and my girl was one of the best behaved there, which makes me so so proud. I know she doesn't have the drive to compete or get too serious about agility but it'll give us a fun activity to work on!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Mutts said:


> Finally get to participate in this thread! I've been meaning to start agility with Thea ever since I got her but things never worked out. Well monday was our first group class and it was an absolute blast! She's been going to daycare once a week at this facility for a few months and the trainers had already started exposing some of the dogs to the equipment. We got to try jumps, platforms and tunnels and my girl was one of the best behaved there, which makes me so so proud. I know she doesn't have the drive to compete or get too serious about agility but it'll give us a fun activity to work on!


Welcome to the party. You never know! Food and toy drive can be built and then used to build drive for the game. There are so many different venues to compete in as well. Many who think they can never compete because their dog is too slow, or too small, or too -something- can find a venue that might work for them. CPE, NADAC, and ASCA are much more chill venues to compete in as opposed to AKC or USDAA. Even if you don't compete though.. it is a fun learning experience.


----------



## Lillith

Mutts said:


> Finally get to participate in this thread! I've been meaning to start agility with Thea ever since I got her but things never worked out. Well monday was our first group class and it was an absolute blast! She's been going to daycare once a week at this facility for a few months and the trainers had already started exposing some of the dogs to the equipment. We got to try jumps, platforms and tunnels and my girl was one of the best behaved there, which makes me so so proud. I know she doesn't have the drive to compete or get too serious about agility but it'll give us a fun activity to work on!


Even in AKC there's dogs that would probably be considered 'slow' who have titles on them and are in Masters and Excellent classes. Accuracy is more important than speed. I mean, there is a time limit, but a qualifying score might be completing the course, hitting contacts, no refusals, all within like 50 seconds, which really is kind of a long time for a dog! Your dog doesn't have to be lightning quick to be successful!


----------



## Mutts

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Welcome to the party. You never know! Food and toy drive can be built and then used to build drive for the game. There are so many different venues to compete in as well. Many who think they can never compete because their dog is too slow, or too small, or too -something- can find a venue that might work for them. CPE, NADAC, and ASCA are much more chill venues to compete in as opposed to AKC or USDAA. Even if you don't compete though.. it is a fun learning experience.


That's good to know! For now we're just going to enjoy the training aspect of it, but if she continues to enjoy it and get better we may just try competing for fun!


----------



## Lillith

A video from Ralphie's agility trial on March 24. This is his second trial ever, 3rd ever run in a trial. And he Qed in this one! At the beginning he was laser focused on that first jump and kept pulling against his collar, and I had to help him sit. You can hear my husband say "Ralphie!" in disgust, lol.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

You and Ralphie did really well.. especially for just starting out! Congrats!

Our competing season has finally begun with lots of fun trials coming up. We've been doing a few CPE trials over the winter and working on our ring stresses. We've hit level 4, which we are going to go through even though it is now optional. We had 2 lovely runs in AKC over the weekend (one day show, Open) and one Q in JWW. No ring stress. Wish I had video because they were so nice!


----------



## Lillith

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> You and Ralphie did really well.. especially for just starting out! Congrats!
> 
> Our competing season has finally begun with lots of fun trials coming up. We've been doing a few CPE trials over the winter and working on our ring stresses. We've hit level 4, which we are going to go through even though it is now optional. We had 2 lovely runs in AKC over the weekend (one day show, Open) and one Q in JWW. No ring stress. Wish I had video because they were so nice!


Thank you! I've been super impressed with him so far!

And congrats on your Q!


----------



## Canyx

Congrats Lillith and FTLoD!

I'm not sure if this is new, but free sections of the NADAC library are available: https://nadactraininglibrary.ning.com/


----------



## CptJack

Definitely new and very, very cool!


----------



## crysania

Mutts said:


> That's good to know! For now we're just going to enjoy the training aspect of it, but if she continues to enjoy it and get better we may just try competing for fun!


Nothing wrong with doing it just for fun! I did only a handful of trials with my girl (my first agility dog, now retired). She was hilarious slow and completely adorable, but had a lot of fun. She really enjoyed classes far more and so I quit going to trials around 2013 and spent two more years taking classes with her (before she got vestibular disease and had to be retired). This was one of her early trials, so go ahead, laugh! She's ridiculous!

The music, btw, really sucks. There was a lot of obnoxious barking and so I removed that sound and replaced it with some really dumb youtube piano music. I'd watch it without sound. lol


----------



## CptJack

In absolute, complete, no fooling seriousness:






This dog was slow. Low drive/no drive for anything except SOME food (and it'd better be damned good food). No confidence. Used to sit at the startline or in front of jumps. Just very sweet but slow and careful and deliberate to flat out 'no'. 

...Things change once they get it. Not always, but if you can build value into the game and confidence things *happen*.

But for fun is still completely, entirely, 200% valid. I did that with one of my dogs and she did, in fact, have all kinds of fun and I have no regret. Only did a couple of trials and only at very low levels, but fun was had!


----------



## Mutts

Really interesting to see everyone's "low drive" dogs enjoying it as well! Our second class went well, after a bit of a rough start (she had no focus, just wanted to sniff around and cuddle with the trainer haha) the trainer added curved tunnels and an A-frame and there was no hesitation on Thea's part about any of it. On a few occasions she missed a jump or missed the tunnel but I'm sure that was just because I wasn't directing her well. She LOVED the A-frame. Next week she is adding the see-saw, but stabilized so it's just a slightly raised plank. I don't think Thea's ever seen that equipment before so it should be interesting!


----------



## CptJack

Kiran is such a baby dog. Doing pretty well, confused about it but happy. I love this stuff.

(And yes, I AM overhandling and nearly running him into jumps or pushing him off them. He was having issues for a bit and now *I* need to adjust).


----------



## Sibe

Kiran is doing so good! Good baby dog.

I forgot to post here last weekend, Denali got both her AKC Master titles!!!! We have 8 QQs so now are grinding toward her PACH.


----------



## CptJack

Go Denali! 

And. I really feel like 'grinding' is the right word for pursuit of that big title. It's like the longest damned stretch of no reinforcement (read titles). Kylie and I are also very much grinding away at Natch points, and it's just... the game's fun? The big goal with nothing to break it up really is grinding, though.


----------



## lauren17

I'm so glad I finally got up the nerve to start trialing Roo! We did out second CPE trial a couple weeks ago and he was perfect all 6 runs placing first and Qs. He's slightly less barky while waiting his turn too.


----------



## Sibe

lauren17 said:


> I'm so glad I finally got up the nerve to start trialing Roo! We did out second CPE trial a couple weeks ago and he was perfect all 6 runs placing first and Qs. He's slightly less barky while waiting his turn too.


 That was a pretty run! Glad you're enjoying it


----------



## CptJack

only did one day and 4 runs in this trial, but we Qed in 3 of them.

I actually find the videos of these runs super interesting. Because the first run, Kylie is the second fastest run out of any of them jump heights, and the second she was right in the mix with the fast big dog times at 4.74 YPS. Is that like 6+ YPS? No, but she's also 11" tall. She blew SCT out of the water! More than 30 seconds under in that first run.

Her ground speed isn't particularly impressive. She isn't hauling butt, and I'm not having to haul butt to keep up with her. She's running, but she's not full out sprinting and I'm basically trotting. 

LOTS of dogs are MUCH faster than she is. 

Somewhere, in this thread, is a post or several of me freaking out about ever making SCT, even in novice. I didn't see it happening. She was already running, she was little, there was no way she was going to run faster, and you know what? She doesn't.

But.

Her lines are tighter. When I do it right her 180s and serps are basically straight lines. Her switches (tandem turns or just rear crosses, depending on your terminology) are clean, now - there's no spinning unless I've done something very, very wrong. We mostly use running contacts, now. She turns on absolutely nothing - seriously, she can change direction and lead legs with every stride. Most importantly? The frustration/confusion (spinning, barking, hesitating with me on course because I got lost or didn't know what to do or got myself in a bad position) are vanishing. It happens less and when it does I usually have something in the toolbox that will get me out of it without too much wasted time (see also rear cross in the weaves).

She's not faster, but holy crap her TIMES are so much faster and I find that all really, really, interesting.


----------



## emmybear

CptJack, those runs look awesome! I love how excited and happy she looks. Her turns and switches are beautiful. 

I hope I can someday get my handling together. I struggle with where I should be exactly on a course and what I should be doing. Knowing it and actually doing it are entirely different things. Does it get easier eventually?


----------



## CptJack

emmybear said:


> CptJack, those runs look awesome! I love how excited and happy she looks. Her turns and switches are beautiful.
> 
> I hope I can someday get my handling together. I struggle with where I should be exactly on a course and what I should be doing. Knowing it and actually doing it are entirely different things. Does it get easier eventually?


Absolutely, yes: it gets easier.

I was actually talking about this today with some of my 'in person' agility friends. For every agility skill there seems to be about three stages: 1-) Teach the Dog. 2-) Learn your part of the mechanics (physical motion and timing). 3-) Figure out how and when to use it on a course. 

...Teaching the dog is the easy part  That other stuff is HARD - but it does get easier once you get more experience with the dog (and the dog with you) and just courses. Hell, even just recovering from mistakes gets easier, and that helps a LOT. I am no longer (thank god) anywhere as bad as I used to be about freezing like a deer in the headlights at every deviation from my plan (or blatant screw ups!). 

I've been at this for 4 years. I kind of, sometimes, sort of, feel competent-ish now.


----------



## emmybear

We’ve been at it now for right at a year (Gosh, it doesn’t feel like it’s been that long already). We’ve been doing full courses for maybe 6 of those months? 

In our class we run the course, break it down into small sequences, discuss them, practice each sequence with a few different handling options, then run the whole course again. 

There was a part last week that I just couldn’t figure out where I should be even though I *knew* theoretically. Even after Renegade did the same thing several times, I was still somehow surprised and had put myself in the wrong spot. Changing things after doing them wrong is the hardest part for me, I think. I guess it’s not only dogs who get pattern trained to the wrong pattern. And I’m definitely bad about freezing when I mess up or when Ren does something unexpected. 

I just wish I knew where we were at skill wise currently. We’re in an advanced course class that sets up masters/premier/elite courses. We’ve had a couple runs really close to clean but not quite. It’s definitely above our level but very very fun. I feel like we learn so much in it but I have no idea how we would do on an actual novice course. We haven’t been to a trial since our first one back in September. Should probably go to one soon just to see what we need to work on. 

Agility is great. There’s always so much to learn! Not to mention it really shows the holes in Renegage’s training. Arousal issues and start line stays right now (kind of the same issue actually). Reading Control Unleashed currently in the hopes that the exercises will help. 

Honestly, I think I like that there’s always something to work on or improve. It helps give me direction while training.


----------



## CptJack

End of Beginner. The good, the bad, and the ridiculous.

Onto Intermediate, 6-12.


----------



## Sibe

Azuma practicing sending out around a big trash can. She'll be 7 months old in a couple days. We've been in a foundation class for a month. 
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104529287777973/

(Can I embed FB videos or do I have to link like this?)


----------



## Lillith

Ralphie earned his NJP today! No videos or pics, sadly, I couldn't find anyone to help me out in that department because we were all so busy with our dogs, but I plan on doing a photoshoot with all his ribbons when the weather turns nice again. I'm just sure he'll be thrilled, lol.

Now, he needs one more Q in Standard to get his NAP! He is absolutely exhausted, and I imagine he'll be sleeping for the the next day or so, but he had so much fun!


----------



## CptJack

You know, once in a while someone in Fenzi likes to say that the biggest benefit of Fenzi classes is that video/watching yourself is helpful and you get personalized feedback on it - and you never get that with in person instruction.

Yes, yes I do. It's the best thing ever. Especially since I get it *immediately*, while in person and standing on an agility course. 

I love my instructor so much.

THAT out of the way: This summer is all Molly, all the time. Everything is being broken down because she's fast, she only has one stride between obstacles, and she's super sensitive to handling. And holy crap it's helping. I am LEARNING things again and I think we're going to get our stuff together!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Finally have a few videos of our more recent runs. We are in all level 4 in CPE and 1 Q away from Excellent AKC JWW and STD. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jctRDhUe6c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lEqy8sD8RY

Yes she broke her start line on the one. That was my fault for not paying attention until I had already released her. But really, I can't complain. She has been running so nice for me lately. I have been rear crossing the heck out of everything in trials because I lack the confidence to pull off blinds and stuff in those situations.. but as we get more solid I will start trying new things in the ring.  So happy with her.


----------



## Canyx

I finally have a couple videos of Brae from class. No surprise, contacts are an issue. Last class he did a great job waiting but this class he did not. I would call Brae food motivated but it is VERY apparent that different food has different value and interaction is more rewarding than food. This is compared to Soro who will swallow a whole giant milkbone as he would a slice of raw meat. So the instructor/helper had something that was not good enough, apparently. I gave them some boiled chicken and Brae did great with contacts in the next rounds (not filmed).


----------



## CptJack

I plan on getting our 'midway through intermediate' video next week. Meanwhile, I have no idea what is wrong with my brain but I am constantly, continually, surprised when Kiran takes off with speed. I do not know why, but EVERY TIME he goes fast I'm caught off guard - and he is now going fast every time.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-sfsCoxj8U

Early discrimination training with Baby Dog.

That I can't get to embed.


----------



## Canyx

Folks may or may not know I teach a for-fun agility course. Most of my students have no intention of competing and just want to have fun with their dogs. We still work on targets, obstacle confidence, crosses, etc. And we break stuff down into sections before tackling the whole course. But really, people having fun with their dogs. And I am SUPER PROUD of my students today in their final class!






Icing on the cake, I've known all three of these dogs since they were itty bitty puppies. They've trained on and off with me in multiple classes. One person is retaking this very class next month just because her dog enjoys it so much. They are in my real-world classes, my hiking classes, and my workshops. I love my students and their dogs and it is really such a privilege to grow with them all.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=NuqFSdNrqQw

We are *definitely* getting our shit together.


----------



## Laurelin

I’m still trying to figure out how to post mobile-y. 

We are doing well. My puppy is big. Wahhh. Was going to ask here if anyone did any specific jump training. I haven’t had to with hank but def will with Fable. 

Loving all the videos!


----------



## Laurelin

Broken image. Sorry here’s the goons.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack- Nice job with Molly! She looks really good. 

Laurelin - Fable looks so pretty! And Hank looks great too. I've noticed lately that a lot of the BC that come through our classes end up needing some kind of jumping exercises. I find they just want to plow through everything forward with no real restraint or collection for jumps. Our latest seminar instructor has been giving all of us some jump work materials but I don't remember what they were called. Kai is a good jumper and we don't practice jumps often. If I had kept Ember in agility.. I would probably remember what the exercises were. :/


----------



## CptJack

Yeah, just 'plow through' is definitely a thing. Molly was really good about not - some occasional knocked bars early on, but mostly she jumps appropriately (doesn't spring a billion miles above the pole/over jump, doesn't knock bars). Kiran we've had to do some stuff with for that blowing through thing. Mostly it's just down to practice. The only exercises I really remember is starting the dog from variable distances from the jump, and 'one bounce' jump chutes. He's a little young to be serious about it, though - 16 months - I'll worry when he's close to 18.


----------



## Laurelin

She jumps flat and in extension so far. And take off a bit early. Worse on matting than grass but also only doing 6-8” because baby dog at this point. Just trying to get ahead of the game. I was watching Susan Salo but my trainer didn’t really like her method. I know mecklenberg also has a jumping method. 

Hank has knocked like three bars ever. 

She is perfect though. Just a great little dog. Already on a list for border collie #2 in 2020/2021 ???


----------



## Laurelin

Here's Hank this year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S04vZSRVkqo

And baby dog is very baby lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qly91NzMRjc


----------



## emmybear

*Laurelin-* Hank looks really good! Nice control there for such a speedy little dog. He listens to your handling really well in that video. 
Fable looks so happy and excited. Some really good stuff in there for a puppy. She looks great! 

I haven’t even started my young dog in agility yet. We’ve been focusing on disc and basic obedience first. I haven’t been eager to start taking two dogs to class. I think they are on different nights though so it should be fine when I do start. 

*Sidenote: I think I know which breeder you got her from and they’re at the top of my list for breeders if I get a border collie in the future(many years down the line). Not trying to be nosy, but in general how was it to work with them?


----------



## Cariboo Puppy

I took Bonnie (my Golden Doodle) to her first trial on the 7th of July. I just ran her FEO so I could take a toy in with her. She did great for her first time. On the Saturday, she went a little off course but did all the obstacles and really enjoyed herself. Unfortunately, on the Sunday, we were walking over to the in-gate and a dog running the course came charging at her. Luckily he tripped on the rope around the ring and the owner managed to grab him but she saw him coming and as he was the same German Shepherd that attacked her as a young dog, she was terrified. I went into the ring with her and just played around but you could tell she was looking for someone else to come after her. She started up the dog walk and jumped off when a dog outside the ring barked.

I have a trial for the next three weekends and that is our year finished up. I just hope that she will have her confidence back as she had the makings of a great Agility dog. I entered all my classes FEO so will make it as much fun as I can.

The German Shepherd has now been banned from Agility trials as it was not the first time he has been a problem.


----------



## CptJack

Where is the baby dog, in agility?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFRz5EVPUMs






Bout here. This is his first run in the big field, at a club practice with other dogs and people and no collar. 

He's surprisingly *thoughtful* in agility. I'm about 98% sure he'll pick up speed with experience and confidence and not expecting every obstacle to be his last (and just more value in it, at least based on what I've seen of him in other things. Meanwhile? Pretty happy with him.

Plus, check his lead out!


----------



## Lillith

He's just so happy, haha!

I prefer "thoughtful" over "just do all the things really fast because fun!", though. I think it's much harder to get a way too fast and reckless dog to slow down than get a careful dog to speed up!


----------



## CptJack

Lillith said:


> He's just so happy, haha!
> 
> I prefer "thoughtful" over "just do all the things really fast because fun!", though. I think it's much harder to get a way too fast and reckless dog to slow down than get a careful dog to speed up!


Saaaame. Right now he reminds me of how Kylie ran when she was starting - happier and faster than her, but similar approach. Molly is, uh, still a struggle. I can build the confidence and speed and obstacle focus. Keeping Molly from breaking her neck and on course is an entirely different ball game and one I'm much less successful at. Both have advantages, but I'm certainly happier with a little less adrenaline fueled excitement and risk to life and limb.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Aww Kiran is doing great!

Agreed that thoughtful is actually really nice. I'm sure he will gain speed and confidence in that thoughtfulness. Not that he is lacking anyway.


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JBC15EW7OQ

I am DAMNED please with what both of these dogs gave me at practice tonight.


----------



## CptJack

Didn't realize I also had video of him on the jumpers course. Also a LONG way from prefect, but not bad for a baby on a course that goes through a box 4 times. And. His confusion when he came back to the jump with the bar he knocked is kind of cute.






https://youtu.be/6cTC1vGoUT0

-


----------



## CptJack

Mini-debut before full trial next weekend for baby dog. 





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kdoXfKuJU

Beta format trial - 2 runs on the same course. 

Run 1 is exactly what you'd expect of an 18 month old at their first trial - much less time on dirt or in a livestock arena. Round 2 - Well.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Nice job Kiran! He did really good for his first time.  

I had the privilege of working with a world team handler recently. Learned a lot about my handling, new ways to handle things, foundation skills to return to and most importantly to trust my dog and our skills.

We have done a few AKC trials this months earning our Open JWW and Standard titles. Also a few Q's in Ex. Std. One more AKC trial for the season -- then we are haulin' it in CPE starting Jan to qualify for 2020 Nationals. 

I have a bit of a mini rant though. The higher "up" in the agility world I go.. the more people I find hating on CPE because it is too "easy" and the handling is bad. While CPE is definitely very beginner friendly and starts out easy.. in the higher levels the courses have been just as difficult and even MORE difficult at times than I have dealt with in AKC. Jackpot requires distance skills. Snooker requires a lot of bypassing the obvious. Standard is literally no different besides the lack of table. The other games are definitely easier but they are perfect for baby dogs and also working your older dog's skills while in the ring. I want to promise myself that I will never tell people a venue is worthless. Each one has its positives and negatives and are great for working different skills. The skills I have learned in CPE have made my climb through AKC much less rough than those I've seen starting baby dogs in AKC. They could really benefit from the shorter courses and "point gathering" games.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Nice job Kiran! He did really good for his first time.
> 
> I had the privilege of working with a world team handler recently. Learned a lot about my handling, new ways to handle things, foundation skills to return to and most importantly to trust my dog and our skills.
> 
> We have done a few AKC trials this months earning our Open JWW and Standard titles. Also a few Q's in Ex. Std. One more AKC trial for the season -- then we are haulin' it in CPE starting Jan to qualify for 2020 Nationals.
> 
> I have a bit of a mini rant though. The higher "up" in the agility world I go.. the more people I find hating on CPE because it is too "easy" and the handling is bad. While CPE is definitely very beginner friendly and starts out easy.. in the higher levels the courses have been just as difficult and even MORE difficult at times than I have dealt with in AKC. Jackpot requires distance skills. Snooker requires a lot of bypassing the obvious. Standard is literally no different besides the lack of table. The other games are definitely easier but they are perfect for baby dogs and also working your older dog's skills while in the ring. I want to promise myself that I will never tell people a venue is worthless. Each one has it's positives and negatives and are great for working different skills. The skills I have learned in CPE have made my climb through AKC much less rough than those I've seen starting baby dogs in AKC. They could really benefit from the shorter courses and "point gathering" games.


Can I join you in this rant, only from NADAC perspective (also hauling it to qualifiy for Nationals in 2018 with Kylie!)

People like to say it's not real agility. It is, really, different in some ways. Missing some equipment, adds hoops and barrels, but people treat it like it's a cake walk. I think a LOT of this, after talking to someone brand new to dog sports, is actually down to AKC recognition. USDAA doesn't get it as bad, but most of the hate comes from AKC people and it's down to 'brand recognition' leading to validity/credibility. She's literally neutering her dog, that she doesn't want neutered for *trick titles* and maybe some agility (she's starting in NADAC right now) because the AKC titles 'mean more'.

I have definitely had the same thing leveled at CPE, based on level 1 courses. NADAC Intro gets the same 'snort', regardless of obstacles. Drives me nuts.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnC8lwVZm_U - Elite Regular. Bite me, that is not 'a horseshoe/any idiot could do it' stuff.

And um, thanks. I am definitely proud of Kiran. That environment was hard, and I didn't even do him the favor of starting him in the aforementioned intro


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Can I join you in this rant, only from NADAC perspective (also hauling it to qualifiy for Nationals in 2018 with Kylie!)
> 
> People like to say it's not real agility. It is, really, different in some ways. Missing some equipment, adds hoops and barrels, but people treat it like it's a cake walk. I think a LOT of this, after talking to someone brand new to dog sports, is actually down to AKC recognition. USDAA doesn't get it as bad, but most of the hate comes from AKC people and it's down to 'brand recognition' leading to validity/credibility. She's literally neutering her dog, that she doesn't want neutered for *trick titles* and maybe some agility (she's starting in NADAC right now) because the AKC titles 'mean more'.
> 
> I have definitely had the same thing leveled at CPE, based on level 1 courses. NADAC Intro gets the same 'snort', regardless of obstacles. Drives me nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnC8lwVZm_U - Elite Regular. Bite me, that is not 'a horseshoe/any idiot could do it' stuff.
> 
> And um, thanks. I am definitely proud of Kiran. That environment was hard, and I didn't even do him the favor of starting him in the aforementioned intro


The stuff you have to work on in NADAC might be different than other venues.. but it is still no joke! I've watched NADAC national videos and was floored by the distance required in those courses. No way are those easy for even the best of the "elite" handlers. CPE Nationals this past year had a total of 8 (out of 700+ dogs I believe).. yes EIGHT dogs qualify in Jackpot (which is also a distance game). But that's clearly because the only people competing in CPE must suck. Haha. I'm actually seeing more international style loving people harping on even AKC right now. There is no NADAC around here but I'm sure if there was they would be scoffing at it pretty hard. USDAA and UKI is moving in around me and it's becoming the new "it" thing. Everything else is mehhh.  (I like USD and UKI.. just annoyed at the attitudes).


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> The stuff you have to work on in NADAC might be different than other venues.. but it is still no joke! I've watched NADAC national videos and was floored by the distance required in those courses. No way are those easy for even the best of the "elite" handlers. CPE Nationals this past year had a total of 8 (out of 700+ dogs I believe).. yes EIGHT dogs qualify in Jackpot (which is also a distance game). But that's clearly because the only people competing in CPE must suck. Haha. I'm actually seeing more international style loving people harping on even AKC right now. There is no NADAC around here but I'm sure if there was they would be scoffing at it pretty hard. USDAA and UKI is moving in around me and it's becoming the new "it" thing. Everything else is mehhh.  (I like USD and UKI.. just annoyed at the attitudes).


I crack up that every other year Champs are in Springfield, OH, and you're right - there is basically none in Ohio at all. Ah well, it's closer than 'extreme west' which is where the other years are. 

And I think you may be right about that, too. 

Just people being snots, really. Determination to set themselves apart as better. Screw it.


----------



## CptJack

And, yes, frankly some of it is 'this requires skills we don't have, so we're going to mock it'. When they admit they can't get a novice chances (distance class) title, you lose the right to complain it takes no skill.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> I crack up that every other year Champs are in Springfield, OH, and you're right - there is basically none in Ohio at all. Ah well, it's closer than 'extreme west' which is where the other years are.
> 
> And I think you may be right about that, too.
> 
> Just people being snots, really. Determination to set themselves apart as better. Screw it.


Yes that confused me so much whenever you said that NADAC Nationals were in Springfield. I mean I only know it even exists because you guys compete in it! I wonder if they hold it the same place they hold CPE Nationals which is also in Springfield some years.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Yes that confused me so much whenever you said that NADAC Nationals were in Springfield. I mean I only know it even exists because you guys compete in it! I wonder if they hold it the same place they hold CPE Nationals which is also in Springfield some years.


Same facility, yep! I thought it was cool re: the facility not being 20+ hours from me, and it's nice that they alternate coasts, but the 'middle' thing when the middle has zero nadac's just. Well, it's still okay sensible but kind of funny.


----------



## Lillith

Ralphie got his Standard Novice Title on Oct. 14th, as well as his first Q in Open JWW!

Here's a little video of his qualifying run. A little hiccup where he missed the jump because I pushed him out a bit too far, but luckily he didn't take that next jump and the rest of the run was clean! He was pretty tired, as that was his last run of the day, so he's kind of dragging his butt, but he got 2nd in his class!

[video]https://www.facebook.com/kelsey.gisi/videos/10155857661623404/[/video]

Also, why won't it embed in the post but takes you to Facebook? Can anybody even see that?


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> Same facility, yep! I thought it was cool re: the facility not being 20+ hours from me, and it's nice that they alternate coasts, but the 'middle' thing when the middle has zero nadac's just. Well, it's still okay sensible but kind of funny.


Oh, cool! It's only 3 hours from here which is nice. Ohio is known for being the "central" place for a lot of dog sports stuff and even non dog sport stuff. My area is known for being the biggest for CPE so it actually makes sense to hold nationals in Ohio. It would be neat to have some NADAC but because we have soo many other venues I doubt it would take off here. I think your NADAC is like our CPE kinda thing. 

Lillith - I cannot see your video.


----------



## CptJack

Lillith said:


> Ralphie got his Standard Novice Title on Oct. 14th, as well as his first Q in Open JWW!
> 
> Here's a little video of his qualifying run. A little hiccup where he missed the jump because I pushed him out a bit too far, but luckily he didn't take that next jump and the rest of the run was clean! He was pretty tired, as that was his last run of the day, so he's kind of dragging his butt, but he got 2nd in his class!
> 
> [video]https://www.facebook.com/kelsey.gisi/videos/10155857661623404/[/video]
> 
> Also, why won't it embed in the post but takes you to Facebook? Can anybody even see that?



I can't, either. I think it's the privacy settings on that post.


----------



## Lillith

Oh, poo. I'll try to get it on YouTube and see if that goes.


----------



## Kyllobernese

I couldn't see it either.

Have just started Bonnie, my Golden/Poodle cross this summer. Have just been running her FEO (for exhibition only) as I can take a toy in the ring and just have fun with her. She started out loving it but at the second trial she was attacked by a German Shepherd and now I have to work to get her confidence back. It really makes me mad and sad for her as now she gets spooked if a dog even barks outside the ring. We have no more trials till next March so will just keep training, we train every Wednesday and Saturday at an indoor arena. It is not heated so have to miss some days when it gets down too cold.


----------



## CptJack

This weekend's trial, I predict, is going to be filled with a lot of very excited dogs having a lot of fun. 

And very few Qs from my dogs, who are suddenly in the land of 'go fast, do what I want' overarousal thanks to cool weather.


----------



## CptJack

https://youtu.be/eoMN2lYNMh4

Kiran's first regular agility run. 

...Yeah. I think we're going to be just fine.


----------



## CptJack

Molly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjadwIRkE7o





Kiran
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vquuNg-fusY
(and apparently I can only embed once, so.)

Molly was pretty much on the edge of totally out of control all weekend - but the trial was not a disaster. She got 2 out of 3 Qs yesterday, and my very favorite one was the NQ (the chances/2nd run in the video). We're not talking about Saturday with her  But it was funny! 

Kiran got 4 out of 6 for the weekend - and his novice regular title, first time running regular in a trial AND we skipped Intro! He's gaining confidence pretty fast, and I'm proud of him. 


Kylie - is taking a while to process video for because she got 6 Qs and her NQs were tiny handler errors. Dog's awesome, guys  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYzri7Ujyg Kylie video.


----------



## Lillith

Okay, I finally uploaded his vid to YouTube! Like I said earlier, we had a little hiccup where he missed the jump because I pushed him out a bit too far, but luckily he didn't take that next jump and the rest of the run was clean! He was pretty tired, as that was his last run of the day, so he's kind of dragging his butt, but he got 2nd in his class!


----------



## CptJack

Lillith said:


> Okay, I finally uploaded his vid to YouTube! Like I said earlier, we had a little hiccup where he missed the jump because I pushed him out a bit too far, but luckily he didn't take that next jump and the rest of the run was clean! He was pretty tired, as that was his last run of the day, so he's kind of dragging his butt, but he got 2nd in his class!


Whoa. GO RALPHIE GO! That is SPECTACULAR!


----------



## Lillith

CptJack said:


> Whoa. GO RALPHIE GO! That is SPECTACULAR!


Thank you!!!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

I loved watching everyone's runs! Great job Ralphie! You guys did really good. Congrats.  

Of your 3 CptJack I love watching Kylie run the most. I swear she gets even more enthusiastic each video you put up. Just pure happiness. Congrats on a great weekend. 

I have no video of my runs this weekend because I have no friends in AKC to record me. But we got our AX (Excellent Standard) and also a Q in Excellent JWW. It was a good weekend.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I loved watching everyone's runs! Great job Ralphie! You guys did really good. Congrats.
> 
> Of your 3 CptJack I love watching Kylie run the most. I swear she gets even more enthusiastic each video you put up. Just pure happiness. Congrats on a great weekend.
> 
> I have no video of my runs this weekend because I have no friends in AKC to record me. But we got our AX (Excellent Standard) and also a Q in Excellent JWW. It was a good weekend.


I have fun with all of them, but. Kylie's my favorite to run, for exactly the reason you said. 

Molly is having a good time, but she's not *playing*. At least, as far as she's concerned she's not playing. She's INTENSE, but she's intensely deadly serious about this shit. She's also super hard to handle - huge space bubble, huge stride, wide turn, fast as blazes, hair trigger responsiveness, and easily frustrated. 

Kiran does not quite grock that all those individual exercises fit together in a whole game yet. He is happy enough but he has no clue what's going on, overall. He just doesn't have the full course experience under his belt. Right now it's basically just... obedience agility. He reminds me a lot of Kylie when she was starting, but we'll see where it goes, overall. And by that I mean in another year or two. 

Kylie though, man, Kylie. I mean, I could analyze her agility to death but the long and short of it is - we've been doing this long enough to get each other, she's forgiving and honest, but mostly? She's playing a *game* with me and that's why she likes it. She's bouncy and wiggly and waggly and yappy and happy to play it. It's just pure, absolutely, PLAYING. If she were human, she'd be a sugared up little kid running around an amusement park. And I absolutely freaking LOVE it.

(Premature post, but AWESOME weekend! You guys are moving along in AKC! )


----------



## dogsule

Love watching all these runs!! Great job everyone. I still cannot get over the outside trials. I have never been to one, most of the ones around here are all inside.

It has been awhile since I have been here. Belle and I are still plugging along and trying to get that MACH. We will have our points long before we have enough double Q's. We struggle with getting the DQ's. We have 5 DQ's (need 20) and 383 points (need 750).

My biggest news is this weekend I start trialing with my newest! My little Raya is now 18 months and will start Novice AKC agility. She is so much more confident and focused than Belle. I know if we don't do well this weekend, it will be my fault, not hers! She is doing awesome!! We started weave training (2x2 method) this past June and she had twelve weaves down pat by Sept. I am so excited and nervous to trial with her! I will let you know how we do!!


----------



## dogsule

So my newest little girl had a great agility debut! Me...well I was so over the top nervous it wasn't funny. You would think this being my second dog it wouldn't be so bad but nope...spaghetti legs...my friends thought I was going to hyperventilate. lol! Raya is so much more confident and focused than Belle ever has been. Of course being such a young dog, there were some things I hadn't thought about being an issue that did come into play in one of our runs. We did two runs Saturday and two on Sunday. Both AKC Novice Standard and Jumpers. Saturday she Q'd in both, Sunday she got her Jumpers but not standard...she flew off the teeter. For some reason she had a bit of teeter/dog walk discrimination issue on Sunday that didn't really show on Saturday so we need to work on this for the next trial. Saturday she didn't read rear crosses as well but did them, Sunday she had them down just fine. Also on Sunday in that standard run there was an ascending double...she hadn't seen one before (I don't recall her doing one on Saturday) any way as per her typical response when she hadn't seen something before, she went by it. Jumped it fine when brought back around though and we had already NQ'd due to the teeter fly off. I will post a video of one of her runs....of course the handler was so nervous and seems very herky jerky....lol! I thought she did great for a novice dog, first time trialing. 

This is her first ever Novice Jumpers run...

https://youtu.be/AffkEDQ_eGg


For some reason I cannot get it to embed in here...can someone explain how to do that. I thought I had it down but I guess not. Thanks....


----------



## Lillith

dogsule said:


> So my newest little girl had a great agility debut! Me...well I was so over the top nervous it wasn't funny. You would think this being my second dog it wouldn't be so bad but nope...spaghetti legs...my friends thought I was going to hyperventilate. lol! Raya is so much more confident and focused than Belle ever has been. Of course being such a young dog, there were some things I hadn't thought about being an issue that did come into play in one of our runs. We did two runs Saturday and two on Sunday. Both AKC Novice Standard and Jumpers. Saturday she Q'd in both, Sunday she got her Jumpers but not standard...she flew off the teeter. For some reason she had a bit of teeter/dog walk discrimination issue on Sunday that didn't really show on Saturday so we need to work on this for the next trial. Saturday she didn't read rear crosses as well but did them, Sunday she had them down just fine. Also on Sunday in that standard run there was an ascending double...she hadn't seen one before (I don't recall her doing one on Saturday) any way as per her typical response when she hadn't seen something before, she went by it. Jumped it fine when brought back around though and we had already NQ'd due to the teeter fly off. I will post a video of one of her runs....of course the handler was so nervous and seems very herky jerky....lol! I thought she did great for a novice dog, first time trialing.
> 
> This is her first ever Novice Jumpers run...
> 
> https://youtu.be/AffkEDQ_eGg
> 
> 
> For some reason I cannot get it to embed in here...can someone explain how to do that. I thought I had it down but I guess not. Thanks....


I think she did wonderful for her first ever run! It only gets better from there! She's just a baby dog, so a few of those "fly off the end of the obstacles" are kind of normal, I feel!

And I sometimes can't get things to embed, too, but the link works fine. It's kind of a crap shoot.


----------



## dogsule

Lillith said:


> I think she did wonderful for her first ever run! It only gets better from there! She's just a baby dog, so a few of those "fly off the end of the obstacles" are kind of normal, I feel!
> 
> And I sometimes can't get things to embed, too, but the link works fine. It's kind of a crap shoot.


Thank you! I have really tried to proof her for anything she may have encountered. She has been coming to the trials with Belle and I since she was 10 weeks old (she is 18 month now) so she was used to the noises and stuff at the trial site. I also took her to train at that facility twice last month just so she got on different equipment and I was really glad I did because she did see their equipment as different from ours...it is different colored ours being blue and yellow, theirs is red/yellow. Although the trial equipment there is different from the training equipment so it was different stuff but having trained at two different places I think made her get it that even though it looked and probably smelled different it was the same. I also had people walking around the ring when I would train, acting as bar setters and judges. She was always so focused on doing the course though that she never paid them any mind at all and thankfully is not a sniffy dog. I am much more confident in her than I was in Belle but Belle is a stressy dog whereas Raya is not. Belle still has issues and Sunday they came into play. She hates tunnel starts and all three runs on Sunday were tunnel starts..ugh! First one was good, happy dog we Q'd. Second one was like ok I will do this again and we Q'd. Third one was nope, don't want to do it and we were disconnected the whole run and of course did not Q but didn't NQ until the 5th to the last obstacle...ugh. 

That being said we trial again Thanksgiving weekend...I cannot wait!!


----------



## dogsule

So we had our second two day trial this past weekend. I am so amazed how focused Raya is out there! Both days we did Jumpers, Standard and T2B. The first T2B course was harder than any other one I have seen before this and I really wasn't sure how Raya would do....she surpassed my expectations, had one refusal but they don't count and the rest was perfectly clean. I will post the video but many dogs missed the weave entrance since it was such an odd angle from the jump before it. She Q'd in six out of six runs for the weekend and also earned her Novice Agility and Novice Agility Jumpers titles. Had one refusal in her first Open Jumpers but again was perfectly clean for the rest. She runs differently than Belle and needs more info than I give her at times but so far she comes back to me quickly if I send her wrong. 

20181125_171101ffc by rzyg, on Flickr

Her T2B run on Saturday....
https://youtu.be/SR_Ewv0H8kU

Belle had a good day on Saturday with a DQ but Sunday I had to pull her as she was up all night with the diarrhea and did not feel well Sunday. 
Here is her Jumpers run from Sat...

https://youtu.be/NdLEDBwqQ8g


This coming Saturday I am taking Raya to a new place about 2 hours from me to trial. Never been there before as Belle stresses at new places. I am taking Belle along but not running her. Hopefully Raya will be ok in a new place and new equipment. If she is I will trial there again the end of Dec.


----------



## dogsule

So we went to a new place this past weekend, just for one day. Two runs for Raya, Open Jumpers and Open Standard. While running the Excellent/Masters dogs the teeter broke and they had to get a replacement. The replacement teeter was not the typical board, it was much thicker and slanted in at the ends, I thought I heard someone say something about hydraulics so it doesn't bang as bad. Anyhow Raya would not go over it, got on it fine but only went half way to the pivot point and jumped off, tried three times and nope she wasn't doing it so we went on with the course. Then they also, their triple had these odd wings, they were weird looking and Raya went around that jump too. That is the one issues she has, is that she sees different equipment as maybe not being the same thing, I know with experience this will get better. In Open Jumpers I did a two jump lead out (could never do that with Belle) and we had an almost perfect run, one refusal so we still Q'd. My fault as she was not in the right spot for me to do a rear where I wanted and I attempted it anyway and nearly tripped over her. Oops. She even went over the weird looking triple without a problem in Jumpers too. So she has one more leg in Open jumpers left and then she will be in Excellent! Belle did totally fine there and wasn't stressed so I could have run her also, will if we go again. I may not go the end of this month though as driving home was not fun in a winter storm. Too iffy around here to drive where I don't know the roads. 

2018-12-03_12-19-10 by rzyg, on Flickr


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Nice runs dogsule! And congrats on recent trials. Trials are always ups and downs. New places are always... interesting. 

So we played "dog switch" in our class. What I learned from dog switch: My dog is incredibly hard to handle. I mean, I always kinda knew that because Ember is pretty easy to steer minus her crazy fastness but.. wow. After running a smooth dog that's no nonsense and all focus.. I'm less worried about some of me and Kai's issues we are working on. We work really hard on things but I'm seeing more and more lately how truly hard tempered and difficult my girl is in some areas. She's not the kind of dog you can just direct. She takes perfect acceleration and deceleration in order to keep her where she's needed. She turns like a boat. You cannot disconnect, ever. You have to be a step ahead of her at all times, no hesitation. She also needs jazzed for some things, not a word for others. Yeesh. It's really a challenge and honestly a lot of fun. I'm glad I ended up with a difficult dog because I've learned so much through her. I appreciate our efforts so much more now.

Also I feel terrible for the less seasoned handler that got stuck trying to work my heathen. She had fun anyway.


----------



## dogsule

Thank you! Raya is really loving it. Belle enjoys it too but has her stress issues. You are lucky your dog will run with others. Belle has a select few that can run her if needed but for the most part she wants me to run her. American Cockers are pretty much one person dogs. Not sure about Raya if anyone else could run her, never tried yet.


----------



## Sibe

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> So we played "dog switch" in our class.


I love when we do that in class! It's always eye-opening. With Denali for the longest time we had to be calm because trying to jazz her up would make her more nervous, in a frantic kind of way. We'd just get zoomies and refusals. This year, at 8 years old, we did a dog swap and my classmate running her has a more energetic run style and Denali LOVED it. Funny enough, same classmate ran Kaytu several months later. Kaytu has really, really struggled with obstacle focus so I tend to not run very fast because we miss everything. I have to babysit. Apparently not anymore, she ran fast and was getting almost everything. Ever since I've been running as fast as I can and she's running so much better.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kai will only run for people if they have cookies. If they struggle with handling her, she will get frustrated/anxious and come back to me. She ran very well for a world team handler who had no hesitations. Aka, she only runs well for the experienced and confident (I lack both at times but I mean in strangers, not me! ). The handler who ran her the other day had a few hiccups and I had to send her back to the girl a couple times.

Jazzing up and being chill/silent is always a fun thing to have figure out with individual dogs. I hear that many dogs really start to pull together around 7ish years old.. so maybe that's why Kaytu is doing better! No idea how true it is of course.


----------



## CptJack

Molly will run for absolutely anyone, including people she'd take the face off if they tried to pet her. She's the same with disc and it's very weird, though clearly I try to limit her running to people she knows well enough to be okay with. She used to run back to me, but these days she's much more into the game, so anything that ends up on the table is fine. Kylie will run for people who have cookies, and that's about it. Kiran won't even freaking sit for my husband unless I'm right there AND there's a reward he wants in his face. 

I am hoping for that 'come together about 7' thing with Molly  Kylie came together about 5, and at 6.5 she's very, very consistent. Like we don't even train agility anymore - odd trip through the weaves but that's about it. Just show up at trials and if i remember the course Q. It's weird. (If I cared about elite chances she'd need more, but I don't)

Next trial the weekend after Christmas. It's a horse barn. There are pigeons. Kylie will be fine. Border things are going to chase birds.


----------



## dogsule

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Jazzing up and being chill/silent is always a fun thing to have figure out with individual dogs. I hear that many dogs really start to pull together around 7ish years old.. so maybe that's why Kaytu is doing better! No idea how true it is of course.


7 huh....Belle is 5, hoping that 7 may be the magic number. If Raya continues to be as good as she has been and keeps learning more as we go, she may pass Belle right up!! 

I really swear Raya watched Belle so closely when Belle was out on the floor that she sort of knew what she was supposed to do. I mean she took the wrong end of the tunnel at the trial on Saturday but on Monday night at class we did back sides which I haven't really done with Raya before at least not that I told her to go around like I do with Belle. Well I did on Monday night and the stinker went around the backside just like I told her to. I mean maybe I had the right positioning and everything giving her the cue on time but sometimes she seems to know things I haven't taught her. She really did always watch Belle when we were practicing or trialing. She's not perfect, she does make mistakes mostly due to me being in the wrong place, but she is really good for such a green dog.

Edited to add...before going in the ring I just do chill things to make sure she is stretched enough for Raya, whereas Belle I try to jazz up.


----------



## CptJack

OH! The jazzing up thing:

If it's not end of the weekend and Kylie's not actively trying to take a nap, I ramp no one up. Kylie and Kiran get weirded out/worried and stressed. Molly gets even higher and has no brain. Maybe someday I'll have a dog it works for, but right now not so much.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I am hoping for that 'come together about 7' thing with Molly  Kylie came together about 5, and at 6.5 she's very, very consistent. Like we don't even train agility anymore - odd trip through the weaves but that's about it. Just show up at trials and if i remember the course Q. It's weird. (If I cared about elite chances she'd need more, but I don't)
> Next trial the weekend after Christmas. It's a horse barn. There are pigeons. Kylie will be fine. Border things are going to chase birds.


Interesting about Kylie and the age it came together...hoping it does with Belle but she is stressy so it may not. I do know it has helped with training more often lately as I wanted to make sure Raya was ready for trialing, so we were training more, like twice a week in October. Belle does really love it, just stresses when we go in the ring and start. 

I have never trialed in a barn or outside or on dirt floors...not sure how we would do. Raya is not a sniffy dog though at all. We go in the ring and she is ready to run that course...


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Interesting about Kylie and the age it came together...hoping it does with Belle but she is stressy so it may not. I do know it has helped with training more often lately as I wanted to make sure Raya was ready for trialing, so we were training more, like twice a week in October. Belle does really love it, just stresses when we go in the ring and start.
> 
> I have never trialed in a barn or outside or on dirt floors...not sure how we would do. Raya is not a sniffy dog though at all. We go in the ring and she is ready to run that course...


Yeah, my issue isn't sniffing. I may get some with Kiran at first, but once he knows what we're doing he's good to go. The others don't sniff. But the physical damn birds being in the ring is just asking a LOT, LOL. But I only have 'outside' or 'on dirt in a barn' as options for our trials, so they don't know anything else.

Also I have consistently found less is more with Kylie. It's just what it is. If I try to 'work' something, or train much, her enthusiasm drops and her stress goes up. So even when *I* am doing agility 2-3 times a week, she's doing ONE, MAX. And usually more like 'twice a month'. Or 'never'.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Lucy is coming up seven next year and I think is running better all the time. Of course, it probably helps that my handling has gotten so much better. We practice (my sister with her Rat Terrier and a friend who is also a judge, with her Papillons) two times a week. We do give them time off during the winter when it gets too cold in the unheated arena as we have no trials till next March. We video a lot of our training and video all our runs at the trials which helps too.


----------



## Sibe

Denali got QQ #9 today! Her first run in Standard I am extra proud of her for dealing with the judge, who was in a tight spot right between the teeter and the A-frame. We work really hard on stuff like that in class by having our classmates be the "Scary axe murderer jump setters and judges" and over time they have gradually gotten more invasive, "rude", and close to her, staring her down, shadowing her the entire run, doing the table count right next to us, and similar. 
Good girl Nali!

https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/posts/10104918794453473


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> Denali got QQ #9 today! Her first run in Standard I am extra proud of her for dealing with the judge, who was in a tight spot right between the teeter and the A-frame. We work really hard on stuff like that in class by having our classmates be the "Scary axe murderer jump setters and judges" and over time they have gradually gotten more invasive, "rude", and close to her, staring her down, shadowing her the entire run, doing the table count right next to us, and similar.
> Good girl Nali!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/posts/10104918794453473


Nice runs! We are only on DQ #6....


----------



## Sibe

dogsule said:


> Nice runs! We are only on DQ #6....


We had 6 a year ago. 2019 I really want to grind and get her PACH done. She'll be 9 in February. 

QQ #10 yesterday, and we have 347 points! A little behind on points (375 is halfway) but she's been running fast and we caught up quite a bit this weekend.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/posts/10104922783090213


----------



## Laurelin

just checking in! Baby dog will crazily be old enough to compete in Akc next month but I think we are aiming for May ish to try the trial thing. She’s super fun. Picking up everything except rear crosses fast and I’m gonna need rear crosses with her lol. 

Hank is also very fun and enjoying classes still. So glad I got him. He’s been great practice for a speedy dog. 

Glad to’see’ everyone!


----------



## dogsule

Sibe said:


> QQ #10 yesterday, and we have 347 points! A little behind on points (375 is halfway) but she's been running fast and we caught up quite a bit this weekend.
> https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/posts/10104922783090213


Yeah we will have the points before enough DQ's I am sure. With 6 DQ's we have 424 points....
Congrats on another DQ!


----------



## dogsule

Laurelin said:


> just checking in! Baby dog will crazily be old enough to compete in Akc next month but I think we are aiming for May ish to try the trial thing. She’s super fun. Picking up everything except rear crosses fast and I’m gonna need rear crosses with her lol.
> 
> Hank is also very fun and enjoying classes still. So glad I got him. He’s been great practice for a speedy dog.
> 
> Glad to’see’ everyone!


Been away so long didn't realize you got another dog. Good luck when you start trialing with him!! Do you trial with Hank or just train for fun?

Raya is so much fun to work with...she just loves it soo much. Belle loves it too but is stressy...


----------



## Laurelin

Yeah the new kid is Fable. She’s a 15 month old BC. 

Hank and I trial in things other than agility but he runs in agility class. Less stressful for both of us this way!


----------



## CptJack

Molly got her open jumpers title today and is up to elite for tomorrow.

But. 

This run.

This open chances run.

Is the best run I believe I've ever had with her and it made, and makes me so stupid happy. Discriminations and contacts at a distance? She's got this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um400lbC1MQ


----------



## CptJack

End tally for the weekend:

Molly got Open Jumpers and Open Regular Titles, and qualified in Elite Jumpers (+ a chances Q)
Kylie got the rest of her NATCh points in Jumpers, + a couple of T'n'G Qs. 
Kiran got Qs in Tunnelers and Weavers, and learned how to do discriminations on the fly (Trial by fire )

Kiran and Kylie ran about half as many courses as Molly (and no regular) so they all had a pretty good weekend. 

Kiran's looking more like a freaking mess than he did in October, but it's a good thing. He's lost the perfectionistic 'obedience agility' thing and figured out it's a fun game, so he's going much faster. He just still has almost no experience himself, and I certainly don't know a lot about running him yet (timing, pressure sensitivity, level of obstacle commitment, etc).

Kylie continues to be a rock star and my favorite. 

Going to take January and focus primarily on Kiran in lessons since he and Kylie have a trial at the end of January and beginning of March, and Molly's off until late March.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Molly got her open jumpers title today and is up to elite for tomorrow.
> 
> But.
> 
> This run.
> 
> This open chances run.
> 
> Is the best run I believe I've ever had with her and it made, and makes me so stupid happy. Discriminations and contacts at a distance? She's got this.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um400lbC1MQ


Awseome run! Love your distance. We have a trial coming up in two weeks...cannot wait!!


----------



## emmybear

Molly looks great! Good luck dogsule at your upcoming trial. 

Goal for 2019 is to actually get out there and enter Renegade in trials. Agility skills wise, he is waaaaaaaay past ready to start trialing. Now he just needs to gain experience and exposure to trial pressures and performing in new locations. 

We went to one trial last year and he did fabulously. He was rather slow compared to class as he stressed more. He definitely has a pattern of stressing in new locations. But he stayed with me at all times and did not run out of the ring which is a huge improvement from the only other trial we've ever done (that I entered way before he was ready). We only got one Q but the other 3 runs we did at the trial were great. We only missed out on the other Qs because of 1-2 knocked bars in every other run. 

Our general agility goals other than trialing is to work on not knocking bars and to get much more independent stopped contacts. I currently have to be right there for him to decide he wants to stop. Also, to get over my own silly fears about trialing. 

I finally made the leap and signed Rio up for classes. I was hesitant because of how much of a mess Renegade was in foundations classes but they are two entirely different dogs and I still need to reconcile that notion in my head. It has been fabulous for him. We finished Foundations 1 and resume Foundations 2 next week. He is a rockstar and is really excelling and loving it. Rio has turned on to the game being fun so much faster than I expected. He absolutely loves it and is so much better behaved at home when he is actively going to classes. 

He is having a bit of reactivity/weirdness when he first sees other dogs but recovers quickly and we're working on it outside of class as well. He is so speedy and is going to be utterly different from running Renegade. Ren isn't slow and runs fairly quickly but is an 85lb GSD and so is much slower than my little 33lb squirt of a BC. 

Looking forward to what this year will bring in agility for both of them!!


----------



## CptJack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avFBCrE7nNg






I realized I didn't post the rest of her runs, so have that. 

I had a friend tell me that every time you get a new dog, it is like starting almost over and she's not wrong. the changes in timing and handling are enormous, but it is so much fun.

And, yeah, the getting over the fear and competing is the hard part. Once you get into a groove and know people and locations and what to expect it gets so, so much easier.


----------



## Lillith

I forgot to upload Ralphie's agility run from December!


----------



## sydneynicole

Lillith said:


> I forgot to upload Ralphie's agility run from December!


He looks fantastic! Nice job.


----------



## dogsule

Lillith said:


> I forgot to upload Ralphie's agility run from December!


Nice run! How did you get it to embed like that in this thread? I tried several ways and it just wouldn't.


----------



## dogsule

So we had a trial this past weekend. Went Saturday and Sunday. Both Belle and Raya had three runs each day. Belle was very sniffy and not into it on Saturday and totally not into it on Sunday. She did Q both days in T2B without any refusals but was not her normal self. I have no clue what is up with her.....this isn't out of the ordinary though. She is over the top exited to go and be there but once we step into the ring another dog shows up. We are trying to go back to treating way more often in class verses running a whole course before treats come. Hopefully this will help some. Otherwise I don't know what to do. 

Raya on the other hand was nice and fast all weekend. HOWEVER...I got a huge reality check on Saturday when my up to this point very focused dog...turned into a judge visiting, start line stay breaking, table jumping off, weave breaking, off course jump taking little dog. She totally surprised me. She ran well in T2B that day except for one refusal and one turn the wrong way (both which make no sense by where I was and what she did) and got a Q but when we started Standard omg....I think a different dog was with me. She has never even looked at a judge before let alone go jump on one. Her weaves have been spectacularly solid and she wouldn't do them without cutting out in the middle and running and taking another jump, would not stay on the dang table, again never an issue before. When we were up for Jumpers I had no clue what she would do but was going to try to keep her in line better. I messed up a tunnel entrance (totally my fault) so we weren't going to Q but when she cut out of the weaves again I very firmly said her name and very firmly told her to come here. She listened well and did the weaves perfectly and the rest of the course too. So Sunday we are up for T2B, she did break her start line stay but if you watch the video, it wasn't bad, she stood up anticipating my release but didn't take off, rest of the run was clean so I was like ok...we are good! Open Standard was up and she was perfect for the whole thing....minus the table which she went up and over, I got her back on and she jumped back off. Ugh! Then came Open Jumpers, she broke her start line stay worse than in T2B but due to sniffing something and then pulled out of the weaves (however I do believe this was my fault as I was thinking about my front cross at the end at the point she pulled out), we went back and she did them fine, so we got our Q. This was her title run, so she now has her Open Jumpers Title. She has had seven runs in AKC Jumpers at trials so far and two titles, seven runs in Standard and only one title. One thing I was happy about this weekend was all her contacts (minus the table) were solid. She had a few slow downs before them at other trials as I think she had a bit of confusion discriminating against what she was going on like dog walk vs teeter but we had been working on that and it showed. She was also running better I think as was I. I felt my front crosses were much better than I usually do. Anyway, worked with Raya on the table last night in class and will be rewarding that for a bit, she never jumped off last night either. Also did a send with her last night that was like 20 ft! I haven't done FAST with her as I didn't think we had much of a send. lol. Oh and blind crosses, worked on them last night and she read them perfectly. Belle was wonderful at class last night too, ran like normal...no not wanting to be there thing but that doesn't usually happen at class either. 

So here are Raya's T2B run and her Open Jumpers runs from Sunday....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ2daZ6EFo8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFxcE14Qi8A

and her cute little mug shot with her ribbons from the weekend. 
2019-01-22_09-48-38 by rzyg, on Flickr

I also realized Belle only needs 4 more Q's in T2B to get her title and only 3 more points. She has done really well with T2B for some reason.


----------



## Lillith

dogsule said:


> Nice run! How did you get it to embed like that in this thread? I tried several ways and it just wouldn't.


I clicked the little icon on the top of the text box that looks like film (between the quote icon and the photo icon) and then just copy and pasted the YouTube link in there.


----------



## Lillith

dogsule said:


> Nice run! How did you get it to embed like that in this thread? I tried several ways and it just wouldn't.


Thank you!

I clicked the little icon on the top of the text box that looks like film (between the quote icon and the photo icon) and then just copy and pasted the YouTube link in there.


----------



## dogsule

Thanks Lillith....trying it to see if it works....


AKC T2B...


----------



## dogsule

Raya's Open Jumpers run...new title. Not perfect but we Q'd!


----------



## Lillith

Looks like the embed worked! Great runs!


----------



## CptJack

Look who's discovering obstacle focus is a thing (and confidence and isn't just staring directly into my face while trotting beside me).

He only had 2 runs today - Qed in 1, near miss in the other. Kylie had a good day, too. Tomorrow we'll see what the day brings.


----------



## CptJack

Kylie, meanwhile....


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Very pretty runs guys! Love seeing them. 

We had 7/10 Q's this weekend in CPE. Would have easily been 8 but I was having end of the day brain fog and put our run literally a second behind before the buzzer rang (It was a Jackpot game). We had some really nice put together runs and honestly couldn't be happier. I'm hoping that we get even more steady this year as I continue to enter all the trials on our hopeful Journey to Nationals. We need 48 Q's total to Qualify. It's gonna be fun!


----------



## CptJack

Our weekend total was 5/8 for Kylie (in her defense, 1 of those runs she had 'yay agility morning' zoomies and the first obstacles was weaves so I just left with her for a bit LOL, and 1 of the others I let something go that I could have fixed. the 3rd NQ was just stupidity from me) and 4/5 for Kiran. NEITHER of them missed any Qs today, though. 

Kiran got 2 titles and is dangerously close to finished with novice (except chances, we haven't done that yet). ...He's under 2. We might slow our roll a little and sit in novice in some of these classes while he gains some more experience.


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Very pretty runs guys! Love seeing them.
> 
> We had 7/10 Q's this weekend in CPE. Would have easily been 8 but I was having end of the day brain fog and put our run literally a second behind before the buzzer rang (It was a Jackpot game). We had some really nice put together runs and honestly couldn't be happier. I'm hoping that we get even more steady this year as I continue to enter all the trials on our hopeful Journey to Nationals. We need 48 Q's total to Qualify. It's gonna be fun!


ALL THE TRIALS. Collecting Qs to qualify for things is so super fun. I'm glad you guys are enjoying it - as well as all the Qs themselves!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

CptJack said:


> ALL THE TRIALS. Collecting Qs to qualify for things is so super fun. I'm glad you guys are enjoying it - as well as all the Qs themselves!


It was super fun! We have trials galore around here so I have about 1 trial per month and 10 possible Q's a weekend. I'm not too worried about those odds, especially after how well we did today. But yes. I am PUMPED. 41 Q's to go!


----------



## CptJack

This weekend's video. That last Kylie run was 4.9 YPS


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> This weekend's video. That last Kylie run was 4.9 YPS


Nice runs! I love the part in the one whgen Kylie pulled out of the weaves and started barking at you!! Almost to the end too....dang it. She was really running in that one though!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Nice runs! I love the part in the one whgen Kylie pulled out of the weaves and started barking at you!! Almost to the end too....dang it. She was really running in that one though!


I have... an entire collection of trial photos of her barking or howling at me on course. It's pretty much *going* to happen at least once a weekend  THE WEAVES ARE THE WORST PLACE EVER FOR IT, LOL, but at least in NADAC it doesn't automatically scrap the Q. Still makes me laugh. Would drive me crazy with another dog but with her it's just hysterical.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Kai had a nice 9/10 Q weekend in CPE. Moved up to level 5 in a couple things. She did so well for me and our trials just keep getting better. I hate full weekends because it's completely draining though. Why do I already want the next one to be here? So much fun!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> I have... an entire collection of trial photos of her barking or howling at me on course. It's pretty much *going* to happen at least once a weekend  THE WEAVES ARE THE WORST PLACE EVER FOR IT, LOL, but at least in NADAC it doesn't automatically scrap the Q. Still makes me laugh. Would drive me crazy with another dog but with her it's just hysterical.


Oh wow, that is nice that it doesn't scrap the Q! Belle does stuff like that in class, barking at me if I confuse her for some reason but she stresses at trials so rarely does the barking happen. It has happened though in trials maybe a few times.


----------



## dogsule

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Kai had a nice 9/10 Q weekend in CPE. Moved up to level 5 in a couple things. She did so well for me and our trials just keep getting better. I hate full weekends because it's completely draining though. Why do I already want the next one to be here? So much fun!


Congrats! We had a trial weekend also and I had two dogs in three runs each day so 12 runs for me for the weekend. I was exhausted! But yeah....I want the next one here already too!!


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Congrats! We had a trial weekend also and I had two dogs in three runs each day so 12 runs for me for the weekend. I was exhausted! But yeah....I want the next one here already too!!


...I do an average of 24 runs a weekend now, with 3 dogs and NADAC being NADAC. I COULD do up to 36, but I don't hate myself.

(And on trials that are 3 days, theoretically I could do 54.... But uh. A-) Budget and B-) I don't hate myself)


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> ...I do an average of 24 runs a weekend now, with 3 dogs and NADAC being NADAC. I COULD do up to 36, but I don't hate myself.
> 
> (And on trials that are 3 days, theoretically I could do 54.... But uh. A-) Budget and B-) I don't hate myself)


OMG!!! I love that I am getting more exercise with the six runs a day but it did really poop me out this last weekend. Of course it is winter here and we are buried under a lot of snow and haven't been walking like usual so we are all out of shape at the moment. That is my excuse and I am sticking to it, lol.


----------



## Lillith

CptJack said:


> ...I do an average of 24 runs a weekend now, with 3 dogs and NADAC being NADAC. I COULD do up to 36, but I don't hate myself.
> 
> (And on trials that are 3 days, theoretically I could do 54.... But uh. A-) Budget and B-) I don't hate myself)



Oh my god, lol. I do about 4 runs a weekend (usually two days, two runs per day) with one dog and I'm pooped!


----------



## CptJack

Lillith said:


> Oh my god, lol. I do about 4 runs a weekend (usually two days, two runs per day) with one dog and I'm pooped!


In absolute fairness, the RUNNING isn't most of what's so exhausting about trials  THe day's the same length either way. You run or you wait and you have a lot of socialization and some level of pressure either way. I get WAY more brain tired than body tired - kinda like my dogs


----------



## Lillith

We had a pretty good agility weekend! Ralphie earned both his AJP and OAP.

This is the run that got the last Q for his AJP.


----------



## Lillith

And this is his first Excellent Standard run. He had run very nice Open Standard course in which he Qd and earned the OAP. That one didn't get recorded. He, unfortunately, did not repeat it on this day! I'm not really sure quite what happened when he came off the A frame, but that got a refusal. He never sniffs the sandbags! I knew we lost the Q, so I decided to work on some distance things that I've been working on in practice but have not had the guts to try in a trial. My goal was to push him all the way to that red jump without running up so far to it, which he did not take. Then I tried to do a blind on the double but I just wasn't quick enough, lol. Then he started sassing me and decided he shouldn't listen to me anymore. He was probably right! Note to self, once the Q is lost just run and don't worry about the mistakes so much, otherwise the dog gets mad!


----------



## dogsule

Lillith said:


> We had a pretty good agility weekend! Ralphie earned both his AJP and OAP.
> 
> This is the run that got the last Q for his AJP.


Very nice run!


----------



## CptJack

We did 9 hours of seminar today and this is the most boring agility brag video you will ever see, but I am stupid proud so.


----------



## CptJack

This dog weaving cracks me the hell up.


----------



## CptJack

In other news, Kiran got his first Open Regular Q, as well as his Novice Touch and Go title. Kylie got her Novice Superior Chances (she's actually in elite, but we dropped back to get some achievement cups - which are the Championship points in Regular and Jumpers, which she already has, plus novice chances points (13 = Silver Achievement Cup), open (13 = Golden achievement cup) and then back on the NATCh train (Elite). We'll see how far we go, but given that she's regularly running at right around 5 YPS, we've got some time  (She's ELEVEN INCHES TALL. 5 YPS is fast)


----------



## CptJack

Heh. Kiran not only continues to do well in Open Regular, but this weekend got awarded a club based prize for highest score in Regular (it's a memorial prize for dogs that originally inspired the creation of the club). 

Wild. 

Especially since he spent about half of those run with his nose on the ground since I had to peel him off licking and chattering a spot a female had peed just outside the ring to do the run.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> In other news, Kiran got his first Open Regular Q, as well as his Novice Touch and Go title. Kylie got her Novice Superior Chances (she's actually in elite, but we dropped back to get some achievement cups - which are the Championship points in Regular and Jumpers, which she already has, plus novice chances points (13 = Silver Achievement Cup), open (13 = Golden achievement cup) and then back on the NATCh train (Elite). We'll see how far we go, but given that she's regularly running at right around 5 YPS, we've got some time  (She's ELEVEN INCHES TALL. 5 YPS is fast)


Congrats!!


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> This dog weaving cracks me the hell up.


One legged, vs two? I've seen dogs do it both ways.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Looks and sounds like Kiran's agility career is really coming along. Definitely an interesting weave style.. LOL. 

Me and Kai have really started to hit our stride, I think. She is doing so good that I'm starting to "trust her" in trials the same way I would in class. AKA, we CAN send into the weaves and go. I don't have to babysit. 
At my seminar I was told I wait around on her too much, and that actually slows her down. Oddly enough, I was waiting around because she was being so "slow". Well, duh me. I speed up, she speeds up. Send and go. She's a seasoned dog who understands my cues.. time to start acting like it. I love our teamwork. <3 

We have some more trials coming up before I take a small break then do some AKC. CPE is fun, but I like the shorter days of AKC.


----------



## dogsule

Ok, Raya had her sixth trial this past weekend. (5th two day trial, 1 was a one day trial). She got her AKC Excellent Jumpers title, she is now in Masters! She totally blew away my expectations of her. She literally had one two day trial where she tested the waters and was a novice dog that did what she wanted. She is coming along great! We got two legs in Open Standard and should have had that title too except at our previous trial I forgot that I was in Open vs Masters and didn't fix it when she went into a wrong end of the tunnel. Ugh! We had two runs in T2B and both times, she took an off course tunnel....going to have to watch out for that one now, I seem to have a tunnel sucker. 

Here is one of her Open Standard runs from this weekend...





and her ribbons from the weekend..
20190324_160935a8c by rzyg, on Flickr


Sadly Belle is having issues. I am going to be taking her to a chiropractor, I feel something is up and she has some discomfort somewhere. I find it hard she suddenly doesn't want to do this even though she seemed to always be having fun. She was refusing a lot of stuff and pretty much walked through the weaves. So I am going to make sure something isn't physically wrong before I stop doing agility with her.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> One legged, vs two? I've seen dogs do it both ways.


Yeah, it's basically single stepping but because he only BARELY has enough leg to pull it off he's less pushing off than he is skipping - and he can't quite keep his head as low as he would if he were double-stepping/bouncing through. I'm cool with whatever but it looks really silly on him


----------



## CptJack

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Looks and sounds like Kiran's agility career is really coming along. Definitely an interesting weave style.. LOL.
> 
> Me and Kai have really started to hit our stride, I think. She is doing so good that I'm starting to "trust her" in trials the same way I would in class. AKA, we CAN send into the weaves and go. I don't have to babysit.
> At my seminar I was told I wait around on her too much, and that actually slows her down. Oddly enough, I was waiting around because she was being so "slow". Well, duh me. I speed up, she speeds up. Send and go. She's a seasoned dog who understands my cues.. time to start acting like it. I love our teamwork. <3
> 
> We have some more trials coming up before I take a small break then do some AKC. CPE is fun, but I like the shorter days of AKC.


He is coming along. We (all 3 of us) have 2 trials next month and then I'm going to basically slow my roll with advancing him for a while. NADAC allows you to stay in lower levels and get extended levels, so I'll likely do that. He hasn't even turned 2 yet and while he's doing fine where he is, I feel like he'd benefit from gaining at least a little more experience with simpler/shorter courses before I throw him into the more complicated ones.

And Molly, like Kai, is finally starting to come together with me as a team and holy crap it's nice so most of my actual focus is there right now.


----------



## Kyllobernese

At our first trial for this year, Lucy qualified in her first Masters Standard. Still did not get my last Advanced Jumpers to move us into Masters in everything but will get there yet. Have another trial on the 20th of April at the same indoor place that we go to two or three times a year. All the rest of our trials are outdoors and we camp at them.

Haven't had Bonnie at any trials this year yet as we go to a Motel at the indoor trials. Hopefully it has given her enough time to get over being attacked at her second trial. Have been working on her all winter and she loves Agility. She is my Golden x Poodle.


----------



## CptJack

Molly really is hitting her stride.

It's still either total disaster or poetry in motion, but we're getting poetry more than dumpster fire more often.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> Molly really is hitting her stride.
> 
> 
> It's still either total disaster or poetry in motion, but we're getting poetry more than dumpster fire more often.



Very nice!! Poetry in motion....


----------



## CptJack

We messed up the easy parts of this course but HOLY CRAP DISTANCE.









Whole course that went right.


----------



## Laurelin

Fable and I did our first trials and they went really well. Did intro nadac and all Novice fast and jumpers. I think got 7 Qs in nadac and went 3 for 3 in akc! She’s going to be a lot of fun. She’s so easy it’s so nice. ?

Hank is being Hank hahaha. He’s enjoying running in the masters level class without dealing with trialing stress. Had a bit of a hiccup with his cancer diagnosis and treatment but getting back to it slowly. I need to video him someday soon. 

Fable’s akc debut:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JBLG6sBgmlI


----------



## CptJack

You guys look so great Laurelin! Congrats! I know you've been waiting a long time for your agility BC and I'm so happy for you!


----------



## CptJack

Hey, look. Baby Dog pretends to have independence.


----------



## Laurelin

Thank you! I don’t think I would have made it through this last year without her and the agility people. She’s incredible and shortly after I got her my whole life fell apart. But at least I had a puppy. 

I miss the forums! All the baby dogs look so good and grown up. ❤


----------



## CptJack

I am learning to stay out of her way - mostly - super in her way from 7 to 8, which messed up 8 to 9 and caused her to miss 9 - but HOLY CRAP I AM LEARNING.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Is that a NADAC type course?


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> Is that a NADAC type course?


That is a nadac chances course (so one of the games, with the focus on distance).


----------



## Kyllobernese

I have been interested in NADAC for a while. Unfortunately the only trial near me is on Vancouver Island which is an expensive Ferry trip away. The courses I have seen on the Internet look very interesting and quite a change from AAC which is what I compete in now. I have the NADAC website and may look into it farther. I noticed they give senior handlers a bit of a break and as I am 80 this month, maybe it would help me. I moved my dog into Veterans in AAC, not because she needed the lower jumps and more time, but because I do.


----------



## CptJack

Kyllobernese said:


> I have been interested in NADAC for a while. Unfortunately the only trial near me is on Vancouver Island which is an expensive Ferry trip away. The courses I have seen on the Internet look very interesting and quite a change from AAC which is what I compete in now. I have the NADAC website and may look into it farther. I noticed they give senior handlers a bit of a break and as I am 80 this month, maybe it would help me. I moved my dog into Veterans in AAC, not because she needed the lower jumps and more time, but because I do.


They are super good about giving older handlers - and dogs - more time and also listening people. 

There IS an option for 'Video Runs' - bunch of info on the website under train and play - if you have equipment and space. I really, really enjoy the organization and most of the courses. Every once in a while there's a trend that breaks my brain, but mostly they're just fun challenges.


----------



## Kyllobernese

Bonnie, my Golden/Poodle cross earned her first Q last weekend in Starter Gamblers. She had missed the day before by.06 seconds. Lucy got a Q in Masters Gamblers also. Have another trial this weekend and the next, have mostly entered Gambler Classes because they are fun and a couple of Jumper Classes both weekends. At least in Gamblers, you set your own course so you make enough points so only have to remember the closing, while the other Master courses are usually a lot harder to follow.


----------



## CptJack

She's hitting her stride.

ETA: Just got notification from NADAC - She got her elite jumpers title this weekend.


----------



## CptJack

Oh and baby dog got his open regular title. Given his age and the length of the more elite courses versus his attention span, I'm probably going to let him sit in Open, or even drop back to Novice for a while. Get some extended titles and keep things relatively short and fun, while we work on skills training in a more focused way, give him some lessons, etc.


----------



## dogsule

CptJack said:


> She's hitting her stride.
> 
> ETA: Just got notification from NADAC - She got her elite jumpers title this weekend.


Wow you have such awesome distance!


----------



## dogsule

Haven't been here since March....Raya is doing fantastic, just got her AKC Master Jumpers title this past weekend. She is testing her start line stay though or lack thereof, she broke every one this past weekend. However we haven't been training since the beginning of July so are starting to work on that now. I also entered her in her first Masters/Excellent FAST and she Q'd. Here is her Master Jumpers run from this last weekend.


----------



## dogsule

My Belle had been on injured reserve since the end of June after ripping one of her front nails completely out of her foot. Ouch! I put her in just T2B this past weekend. She needed one more leg for her title. She hadn't been running very well at all lately so I just did a running start and didn't think she would start as quickly as she did. She blew me away and ran so well and happy. Here is her run...






I hope you all are having agility fun and success. I just love my agility weekends where I can escape from reality....lol


----------



## CptJack

So. Yeah.

That's her fastest run to date.

And I am proud of that little mutt.


----------



## dogsule

Nice run! So there are no jumps in that type of course? I wouldn't know what to do in such a big ring, ours are all run in much smaller spaces.


----------



## dogsule

We had another trial this past weekend and finally, finally Raya and I made some headway in Excellent Standard, Qing in two runs! Woohoo! Belle ran well but sadly no Q's on Saturday and just one on Sunday. Oddly enough her worst looking run was the Q but we barely made time on that one. I think she was just done, tired. Stayed over in a hotel for the first time and she is a stressy dog and the noisey neighbors made for a bad first time hotel stay.


----------



## CptJack

dogsule said:


> Nice run! So there are no jumps in that type of course? I wouldn't know what to do in such a big ring, ours are all run in much smaller spaces.


Yeah, it's a games class called Touch 'n' Go. It's the contact obstacle focus game - tight course times, so you have to be able to go fast and still hit contacts. Kylie loves it and does well with it. It's Molly's worst (by far) class.

I hear you on course size and obstacle spacing. I've done some AKC and it's weird for me


----------



## CptJack

Kylie got her silver achievement cup today.



That means 130 elite jumpers, 230 elite regular, and 130 NOVICE chances. Next we'll try for the gold which is the same except 130 OPEN chances. If we get past that, it's NATCh for the 130 elite chances. Not sure we're going to get that, but I'm pretty danged proud of this.


----------



## dogsule

So last weekend (on Sunday) it was Raya's one year anniversary of trialing AKC agility. In this last year she has earned her NA, NAJ, OA, OAJ, AX, AXJ, MXJ, NF, OF and is one Q away from her T2B title. So proud of this little girl!


----------



## dogsule

Had a great agility weekend with Raya. She earned her T2B title, Exe FAST title and got her first DQ!


__
https://flic.kr/p/2hQGMqh


----------



## CptJack

Been nearly 2 years since this was updated, but since I'm passing through -
Kylie's winding down toward retirement - she still plays and trials, but she got her 'big' award a year ago. 
Kiran's moving into elite (Has some elite titles, still has a couple of open ones to work on)
Molly's a couple of Qs from all her elite titles and might just get her natch
Arson's in class. 

Molly and I having our stuff together's the most amazing thing to ever happen to me


----------



## Lillith

Looking very good! I love the distance. You guys make it look so effortless.


----------



## CptJack

Turns out that with Molly the distance wasn't a 'cool extra'. It was absolutely vital to being able to handle her at all. I don't know what it'll take for us to get there, consistently, in a trial environment but. It's been a productive few years.


----------

