# Need more help with leash reactivity



## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Leash reactivity has been our toughest problem with Luna. She is, of course, perfect in off leash situations, but she goes nuts when she sees another dog on our leashed walks. Barking, yipping, whining, lunging, pulling, she's a little terror. I should mention that her behaviour is out of excitement, never aggression or fear, and she quiets down if she gets to meet the other dog. We've been taking her to obedience classes too, and we spend the whole class just managing her reactivity (good thing she already knows all the commands we're learning!). From what I've gathered, I'm supposed to get her to focus on me, and treat treat treat. We've been working on this since last winter, and she still has a long way to go. She has improved, but only in the sense that she can actually focus on me somewhat, depending on how far over her threshold she is. The best she's done is sat the whole time while another dog approached her, but this is only on a good day. She's not even close to staying calm on her own. 

I'm just wondering, how is giving her treats supposed to help? Technically, I don't need to counter condition, because she doesn't associate the other dogs with bad things. Is it just to help her focus on me? How long should it take to see major improvement? Is there anything else I can try? I would really love to hear from people who have been through it.

Oh, and she has JUST developed bicycle reactivity too. *sigh* I have no idea what triggered it, I didn't see it coming, one day she just started barking her head off at them. She has always been kind of interested in bikes, but just a bit curious. Now, she lunges and barks. It's a hard one to fix, too, because with a bicycle, one second you spot it, and two second later it's whizzing by. I've had her sniff bicycles, and she couldn't care less, it's just when someone is riding it. Imagine that, yesterday, one of my neighbours, who we see and talk to occasionally, rode by on his bike with his dog in tow. Double doozie!


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

You might want to make contact with the other dog the reward for behaving and being polite. Hold on until she does calm down a fair bit (you're not going to get 100% calm at first), then release her to go meet the other dog...though it is best to use a dog you are familiar with in this scenario...just to avoid any possible complications. It takes a ton of time and patience, but this might be a good way to go rather than treats. She may be getting excited about the dog AND the treat if timing hasn't been right, or if it is just not the right approach for what is going on with Luna. 

As for the bikes, I would try something along the lines of some basic desensitization, maybe get a friend to drive by at a distance, and treat for calm (and hope for a bit more calm than with the dogs...), get closer and closer. Many sessions, many days (or even weeks). This might be a prey drive issue as well, so general impulse control exercises might make a big difference too, especially ones specifically aimed at controlling prey drive.


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## Emily1188 (Jun 21, 2011)

She sounds like a classic frustrated greeter, so I second Greater Swiss's suggestion of making contact with the other dog the reward. Check out BAT training - for a frustrated greeter, you teach them their behavior controls their progress, meaning when they behave the way you want (no barking, no lunging) they move towards the dog they want to see. If they react, progress halts and depending on how strong the reaction is you may take "penalty steps" away from the other dog. Eventually your goal should be to be able to walk up to another dog with your dog quiet and attentive, and then release to "go say hi!" I strongly suggest putting your release/greeting on a consistent cue as well (I just use "go say hi!"), just so things are crystal clear to the dog. Here's a link to the official BAT website. http://functionalrewards.com/

This does take a set up scenario so enlist any friends with social dogs that you have. 

Also, consider other general impulse control exercises along the lines of doggy food zen and self control around toys/during play, to help lay the foundation of attention to the handler in order to get what's wanted.

ETA: Also, a trap I see many clients fall into is the "she'll be quiet as soon as they can meet" mentality, which accidentally promotes the poor behavior before the greeting. The dog is repeatedly reinforced for barking and lunging because its weary owners just want the chaos to end, so they let him meet the dog while still acting like a lunatic, and the dog learns what works. Even if you can only get a brief sit or a tiny bit of eye contact, at least make her show some focus and self-control before being allowed to greet dogs.

Also, I would teach her that sometimes you just can't greet dogs. Some dogs have to be ignored, they're not social, they're be trained, their owner isn't social... lol. For that I would encourage ignoring the other dogs on cue for a very high value treat, like meat or cheese. She does have to eventually understand that not all dogs can be approached, so don't forget to include that in your training.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I sort of make greeting the reward, because I get her to stop and sit, try to calm her, and then move forward as calm as we can. It's hard though, in an uncontrolled, street environment, when I may not even know the other dog/owner. I think it's actually easier for her when she knows the other dog - most of the times that I've had success keeping her calm the whole time was with her best doggie pal from down the street. We don't have any other doggie friends, just a single one, and we only see them every few months.

I'm not sure if the treats are making her double excited, she actually doesn't care much for treats on our walks, sometimes I feel like she's taking them just to please me. Should I just stop the treats and try to calm her by having her sit and petting/ talking to her?

Her impulse control is great. Her favourite thing is to play tug, and I can get her to release with a single command. She will sit and wait while I throw treats or a bully stick around her, or when I put her food out. She has a really strong prey drive, but when we see a bunny I can get her to sit and wait, then give the command to "go get it" and then I run with her. I figure, at least I'm teaching her to listen and wait for my command. I'm sure it wouldn't work off leash, but it's better than nothing.

What is it that causes leash reactivity to develop? Because, I'm afraid she's starting to be reactive toward humans too. We've had her since February, and she was a farm dog, so she had never been on a leash until we took her home at 9 months old. In the 10 months we've had her, she's always been PERFECT with humans and kids, on or off leash. All the neighbourhood kids know her, and I always stop and let them play with her, give her treats, etc. In the summer I used to walk her around the kids' splash pad, where there was a whole crowd of kids and adults playing and running around. She's never been any less than perfect. However, in just the past week or so, I've noticed her whining a bit when she sees people on our walks, and sometimes lunging a bit as they pass. I've been getting her attention and giving her treats as we pass. I can't deal with another type of reactivity!! I have no idea what's triggering it in her, because nothing has changed, and she's been so perfect for so long (with humans, I mean. with dogs, it's been like this since day one).


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Teaching dogs to sit for everything helps with...

Greeting (can't lung when seated).

Calming dog (make it pause to better access situations)

Staying put (ease of putting on or taking off leash & collars)
Use in conjunction with another command like stay.

Saving dogs life(say dashing out in traffic trying to chase the bikes or cars)
Etc.

I would train the dog to be "bottom happi /heavy"...
And so the dog will be willing to sit for any and everything.
Use treats, toys, walk, fun (rewards) to your best advantage.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

hueyeats said:


> Teaching dogs to sit for everything helps with...
> 
> Greeting (can't lung when seated).
> 
> ...


Yep, she already does sit for everything. When in doubt, she sits. When she wants something (toy, play, food, treat), she sits. When a dog sniffs her butt, she sits. We have yet to reach the point that she sits when excited, but I think it does help that sitting is pretty automatic for her.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Eagerly watching this thread!

Bae dog also has on-leash dog reactivity. Its unclear if its fear based or frustration based. He is fine meeting dogs off leash. We are limited in training environments because he sounds vicious when he barks at the other dogs. I've been asked to leave events because people were worried he was barking at them.  Talk about a sad dog for the dog owner (me!). I really need to get a video of him one of these days... I'm having a hard time evaluating him myself. I can usually get him to sit if we are a certain distance away but he still whines, growls, gruffs, ruffs, and barks his fool head off.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

RabbleFox said:


> Eagerly watching this thread!
> 
> Bae dog also has on-leash dog reactivity. Its unclear if its fear based or frustration based. He is fine meeting dogs off leash. We are limited in training environments because he sounds vicious when he barks at the other dogs. I've been asked to leave events because people were worried he was barking at them.  Talk about a sad dog for the dog owner (me!). I really need to get a video of him one of these days... I'm having a hard time evaluating him myself. I can usually get him to sit if we are a certain distance away but he still whines, growls, gruffs, ruffs, and barks his fool head off.


If anything, it feels good to know there are others out there.

I would soooo love to hear from others who were once in our situation and managed to work it out.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

starrysim said:


> Yep, she already does sit for everything. When in doubt, she sits. When she wants something (toy, play, food, treat), she sits. When a dog sniffs her butt, she sits. We have yet to reach the point that she sits when excited, but I think it does help that sitting is pretty automatic for her.


That's great.
Now add staysit to the trainings.
Train longer sit.

Also add focus on high when she sits...
(Lure her to look at a toy you are holding up high in front of her with a hand motion like twisting or something)
Treat when her focus is on you, the toy the hands.
That will lead to focus on you when the time you needs to use it, like another dog.
Buys you time... This redirected focus away from other dog and distractions back on to you.

Hope it helps.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

starrysim said:


> If anything, it feels good to know there are others out there.
> 
> I would soooo love to hear from others who were once in our situation and managed to work it out.


I try to tell my family that its "leash reactivity" and they are all dumb struck that it has a name. It can get quite lonely sometimes. I feel trapped by him. I can't take him places where there will be tons of dogs yet. Someday I want to take him to runs and adoption parades and walks and skijoring races. Its nice to come on here and read that other people have this issues and there is a light at the end of the tunnel!


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

hueyeats said:


> That's great.
> Now add staysit to the trainings.
> Train longer sit.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the idea. I never really taught her to focus on my hand, at least not intentionally. I'll have to practice that more. She already does great sit-stays, even if I do jumping jacks in front of her, or quickly run away a few steps, or even go down a flight of stairs. But this is indoors, so outdoors all bets are off. Actually, at our last obedience class, I had her leash free on the floor, and she was sit-staying as I did various distractions. She tends to go nuts at class when we're sitting and listening to the instructor. So close, yet so far it seems!



RabbleFox said:


> I try to tell my family that its "leash reactivity" and they are all dumb struck that it has a name. It can get quite lonely sometimes. I feel trapped by him. I can't take him places where there will be tons of dogs yet. Someday I want to take him to runs and adoption parades and walks and skijoring races. Its nice to come on here and read that other people have this issues and there is a light at the end of the tunnel!


I know  Sometimes I dread our walks, because it gets so exhausting managing her every second. Every walk is an intense training session in walking and reactivity, and it's been like that for months. Thankfully she's just a little 10-lb dog, but it still hurts my hand when she pulls too much, and I can't help but be embarrassed because of her behaviour


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Watching this thread, it seems like Sydney and I are in a never ending battle with reactivity. :/


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

What collar are you using with your dog? Have you tried a prong collar? If not, give it a try - learn how to fit the collar, how to give corrections( quick jerk and release )

Edit: I went through a similar situation with my dog. Reactivity when other dogs went off and excitement when he saw kids on trampoline. I used the treating system a lot until it did not work anymore. The treating system is great when you're teaching the dog a command or trick, but once the dog knows it and won't comply - it's time for corrections. I'm not saying yank the dog's head off, just enough to snap them out of it. It's important that you remain in control. You remain in control when the dog is obedient and doesn't act like a nutcase. You can try without a prong collar, but I have heard stories about how changed people's problem dogs became once the prong collar is on. The prong collar is meant to be a training tool, not a torture device hence it is important to learn how to use it. You can give corrections using just a regular collar - when you see dogs in a distance or coming at you, put her in a down/stay and step on the leash and keep her there while the other dog passes and the moment she tries to get up - say NO and give her a quick jerk and release of the leash. Sometimes that correction helps them calm down. I have seen this with my dog. The correction calmed him down and let him know that he needs to pay attention to me. I was very surprised that was all it took - one correction and I tested him walking by the kids on the trampoline a few times and he was acting calm and normal - no more whining or pulling. Watch your dog and give yourselves plenty of space and if the down is not working well then get up and "turn" and walk away from the distraction. I have learned that teaching the "turn" command is invaluable. If you would like links to helpful articles with lots of pictures demonstrating the turn, I can provide it.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Eh...

The only reason treating "stopped working" for you is because your dog was over threshold (probably). Click and treat is not just for tricks! That is common misconception. Learning can't occur if the dog is so distracted that they can't even pay attention, you need to take a step back in your training and reevaluate. Putting a dog in a down stay can actually make them feel more vulnerable or more frustrated as another dog approaches because they are so low to the ground.

Turning and walking away from the distraction is a much better method, IMO. The turn would be the nonreward marker. "We turned because you were freaking out/about to freak out. Therefore, you do not get to approach the person, the dog, the kids, etc." That would work for dog s

Note: I use a prong collar with my dog occasionally so that I can walk him safely. Never have I ever had to "jerk and release". The collar corrects, naturally. Jerk and release is for choke chains, if I'm not mistaken. Someone can feel free to correct me here. Feel free to link me to proper use of a prong collar videos, websites, or articles.


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## Emily1188 (Jun 21, 2011)

starrysim said:


> Thanks for the replies. I sort of make greeting the reward, because I get her to stop and sit, try to calm her, and then move forward as calm as we can. It's hard though, in an uncontrolled, street environment, when I may not even know the other dog/owner. I think it's actually easier for her when she knows the other dog - most of the times that I've had success keeping her calm the whole time was with her best doggie pal from down the street. We don't have any other doggie friends, just a single one, and we only see them every few months.


It would still be worth pursuing, IMO, even if it takes some effort to set up. Working with reactive dogs often takes some kind of set up initially and is well worth the effort in the long run. Can you invest in a few private lessons with a trainer who can provide a calm decoy dog? It really does sound like you'd benefit from one on one attention - we can't see exactly what you or the dog is doing over the internet, unfortunately, and sometimes small changes in handling style make a big difference. 



starrysim said:


> I'm not sure if the treats are making her double excited, she actually doesn't care much for treats on our walks, sometimes I feel like she's taking them just to please me. Should I just stop the treats and try to calm her by having her sit and petting/ talking to her?


It sounds to me like for her, treats are probably a wash while out on walks, meaning they're not helping but they're not hurting. I'd probably still carry some on me if I were you - they might be useful in certain situations still. If you find that petting her calmly helps, then by all means do what works for her.



starrysim said:


> Her impulse control is great. Her favourite thing is to play tug, and I can get her to release with a single command. She will sit and wait while I throw treats or a bully stick around her, or when I put her food out. She has a really strong prey drive, but when we see a bunny I can get her to sit and wait, then give the command to "go get it" and then I run with her. I figure, at least I'm teaching her to listen and wait for my command. I'm sure it wouldn't work off leash, but it's better than nothing.


Great! Sounds like you have an excellent foundation. Now, can you:

1.) Set a pile of high value food on the floor and get the dog to heel or loose leash walk around it? Do some sits and downs next to it? Recall directly to you, right past a temping treat on the ground?

2.) Can you throw her tug and have her hold a stay? Can you ask her to heel/LLW around it while it's sitting on the ground? Does she give eye contact while you move the toy around temptingly?

I would still pursue general impulse control to the highest level possible with this dog. It sounds like she has a great foundation to build on. Anything you can dream up that involves her choosing you over an available high value reward, teach her to do. Recalling over a "minefield" of scattered treats is a fun one too. 



starrysim said:


> What is it that causes leash reactivity to develop? Because, I'm afraid she's starting to be reactive toward humans too. We've had her since February, and she was a farm dog, so she had never been on a leash until we took her home at 9 months old. In the 10 months we've had her, she's always been PERFECT with humans and kids, on or off leash. All the neighbourhood kids know her, and I always stop and let them play with her, give her treats, etc. In the summer I used to walk her around the kids' splash pad, where there was a whole crowd of kids and adults playing and running around. She's never been any less than perfect. However, in just the past week or so, I've noticed her whining a bit when she sees people on our walks, and sometimes lunging a bit as they pass. I've been getting her attention and giving her treats as we pass. I can't deal with another type of reactivity!! I have no idea what's triggering it in her, because nothing has changed, and she's been so perfect for so long (with humans, I mean. with dogs, it's been like this since day one).


There isn't really an answer for why reactivity generally occurs; it's going to vary between dog to dog. Most reactivity stems from fear or arousal (usually both, IME). It sounds like for her it's more arousal, and then leash frustrates her by preventing her from reaching her goal, and when she can't contain her excitement/frustration she bubbles over into barking and lunging. She then associates the leash with those feelings and begins to preemptively respond to her triggers that way. Dogs like this are kind of like a can of soda that you shake - too much arousal, nowhere for it to go because of the leash, eventually the bubbles burst out the top.

I would really encourage you to seek individual professional help; you've put a lot of work into this issue already and I'm sure any trainer would be delighted to work with such a dedicated owner. I really think an in-person evaluation would be useful and maybe necessary, since the behavior is beginning to escalate towards people as well. I know your already in a group obedience class but that's really not the venue to hammer out an issue like this. Do you like your instructor? Could they recommend you to someone? There's just only so much help we can give online.


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## legogirl (Jun 23, 2013)

My dog Dottie came to me from a situation where she was crated 20-22 hours a day, so she had no socialization. The first thing I did was teach her the command "look at me." Every time she looked at me, I would click-treat. I did this inside, away from distractions. Eventually, she got to where she would automatically sit and look at me when I gave her the command. Then, when we went out on walks, the minute I saw another dog/person (she is reactive to dogs as well as people) I would have had look at me. I click-treat, for attention. Next, I would click-treat for glancing at the dog/person and looking back at me. I extended the time she looked at the dog/person, until she could just glance at it and then concentrate on me. So she learned that if she payed attention to me instead of barking she would get a treat. She now is to the point where she likes other dogs. She is still iffy about people, but she enjoys playing with dogs. This took about three months to get to this point, but it has really been worth it. I hope this helps some.


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## JeJo (Jul 29, 2013)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> Watching this thread, it seems like Sydney and I are in a never ending battle with reactivity. :/


I am watching as well; lots of good advice offered and I appreciate the shares. 

The times when other dogs just cannot be avoided is the worse, like in the vet's waiting room. The parking lot became our waiting room for her constant barking (where she then sat quietly). I felt like "one of those owners", having no control. Which I guess I am. *sigh* Kayla is so beautifully joyful and obedient at home. I have a lot of work to do to help make her the best she can be all around.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Well, at least I've determined that her leash pulling is coupled to her reactivity. My husband has been sayining how great she's been on their walks, but he walks her late at night when there aren't as many distractions, whereas I walk her after work when all the kids and bikes and dogs are out. Yesterday there was a bit of a drizzle, not enough to keep Luna from going out (she _hates_ going out in the rain, but isn't scared of storms or thunder at all), but enough that the sidewalks were deserted. We had a great walk, 90% on a loose leash, she didn't pull, and she paid attention to me. The previous day when I took her out during a normal weekend afternoon, she was whining and pulling pretty much 90% of the time, we did more stopping and training than walking.

Emily1188 - Thanks for the ideas for more impulse training. Some of those things I already do with her, but it's always good to get new ideas. I'm not very imaginative. I will ask my current obedience school about private lessions. There also seems to be a "Reactive Dog" class in the list on their website, but there is no description, info is "coming soon." I don't see it in their schedule, either.

legogirl - I wish this would work for Luna, but it doesn't. She knows "look at me." She knows the click or "yes" cue word, but when she's over-excited she doesn't care about the treat. Even if she looks up at me, she usually can't be bothered to actually take the treat, even though I take her favourite treats on walks. It's just not an incentive for her. Your dog thinks the treat is incentive to modify her behaviour, but that's not the case with Luna, which is why this whole thing has been so difficult. I even tried a giant spoon smeared with peanut butter - she maybe, once in a while, licked it if I shoved it into her face, but didn't really care to do anything to get a lick. Nevertheless, thank you for the input, it may definitely help someone else, and it is good advice in general. Just wondering, where did Dottie come from? That's so awful, keeping her crated and unsocialized like that. (Speaking of socialization - Luna is very well socialized, but that seems to be a separate thing from her reactivity. She is reactive despite being well socialized)


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## legogirl (Jun 23, 2013)

She came from my husbands coworker. He didn't know her very well, and she told him she had a puppy that was out of control: barking and lunging on walks, nipping, whining, running around destroying things. She said she didn't understand it, and she was tired of it. She was going to take her to the humane society because she couldn't handle it. Of course, when you keep an 8 month old Beagle/Jack Russell puppy crated 20 hours a day, without exercise or mental stimulation, what do you expect? So my husband called me, and I met the lady and got her. As she was handing her over, Dottie was growling and lunging, and the lady said proudly "Oh she's just possessive." like it's a good thing. A month after I got her, She became an AKC star puppy. I work with her every day, and she's a completely different dog. (Sorry for the long post!)


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

starrysim said:


> Her favourite thing is to play tug, and I can get her to release with a single command.


If I were you I would whip out a special tug toy (only seen during walks) as I see another dog approaching, well before your own dog reacts. Initiate a game of tug and tug your way past the approaching dog, at an appropriate distance.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Canyx said:


> If I were you I would whip out a special tug toy (only seen during walks) as I see another dog approaching, well before your own dog reacts. Initiate a game of tug and tug your way past the approaching dog, at an appropriate distance.


It's funny, the trainer at my obedience class suggested the same thing today  That's something I've never tried. I'll try it for sure.

legogirl - How great that you ended up getting Dottie! It drives me insane that people don't take the time to understand what dog ownership is all about before they get a puppy. My neighbours, who have one year old and three year old (human) boys, thought it would be a nice idea to get a 6-week old black lab mix puppy, so that their kids can grow up with a puppy. Needless to say, it's not going so well. The poor pup, who's a few months old now, is almost completely untrained, lunging and pulling all over the place, can't even sit or follow any basic commands. She can't go near the kids because she mouths too much. They leave her in the backyard tied up for a few hours on evenings and weekends, even though she's crated during the day. They're not bad people but they just shouldn't have gotten a puppy at this time, and they have no idea how to care for her. When we were looking for a dog, before we found Luna, we also visited another dog, under a year old, who was completely unsocialized and untrained. They brought him out on a leash to meet me, even though we were inside their house, and he was just terrified and growling and pulling. It was awful, I have no idea what happened to him. He would need an experienced trainer to undo the damage they did by raising him without any training whatsoever. Anyway, sorry to go off topic...


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Ughhhh... We just went out our evening run and even though I had my head lamp on, I didn't see this couple and their dog approaching us head on. When I caught the glow of the dog's eyes in my head lamp, I screamed a little bit in surprise then Bae picked up on that and began his usual barking and lunging. Could it be me that is setting off his reactivity? During the day, I start "coaching" him from the moment I see a dog and he doesn't react until we are pretty close. Tonight it seemed like he didn't give two effs about the other dog until I screeched. Maybe he didn't see the dog, maybe he just didn't care until I pointed it out. Thoughts?


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## Ladybug211 (Jun 6, 2012)

As someone else with a leash-reactive dog, I'm also eagerly following this thread and glad to know I'm not the only one dealing with this issue. Like Luna, Betty is fine with other dogs off leash, but reactive once the leash is on. I'm not 100% sure whether it's fear or excitement in her case, but I suspect a little bit of both. I think it began as frustration at not getting to greet other dogs, and then escalated to a little bit of fear reactivity (in the realm of "If I can't see you, then you had better stay far away.") before I realized that leash reactivity was actually a 'thing' and began addressing it. We're also currently enrolled in a group class, and she does fabulous when I have her complete attention. We're making progress with "watch" and a sit combined, although it is definitely still a huge work in progress. She'll sit and watch while other dogs walk around us (with lots of treats and praise) and come back down after reacting to a certain level of arousal, but catching her before she reacts, especially in a class environment, is not always easy. We probably had our worst class tonight, as it was the first time the other leash reactive dog in our class entered the main group with Betty present, and they managed to set each other off after a short period of deceptive calm. We came back to Earth eventually, but the goal now is to not associate the whole class experience with one bad event. I'm sure we'll get there, and reading everyone else's posts is very helpful. Betty tries so hard and is such a sweetheart, and I'd love to get into agility with her eventually or just take her to the pet store without causing a scene. Anyway, sorry that was so long, and nice to meet you all!


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

To follow up on my post. A properly fitted prong collar will enable the handler to control the dog much better as most of the time the dog self corrects once it pulls. Usually corrections are not really corrections, they are mainly quick flicking motion of the wrist. The pressure from quick pop will be enough to redirect the dog's attention to it's handler. The best way to approach this is to do loose leash walking exercises. Teach the dog the "turn" command and "heel" command. Here are some detailed information on loose leash walking exercises. I really encourage you to look into these articles and read and study it. Just simply practicing the turn will do you wonders. You have to learn to know your dog's triggers and body language and be one step ahead of her. When you are one step ahead of her, she does not get the chance to go looney. Always make sure to keep leash loose. 

These are for reactivity on the leash and moving past distractions. I've done these exercises, not all but basically the turns and walking backwards, switching up the pace etc all using a martingale. 

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/reactive-dog-moving-past-distractions

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/reactive-dog-foundation-exercises-for-your-leash-reactive-dog

These are for training loose leash walking 
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/w...oose-the-right-walking-pace-and-make-it-clear

The turns
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/teaching-dogs-to-walk-on-loose-leash-part-2-making-about-turns
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/walk-on-loose-leash-part-3-u-turns
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/m...exercises-how-to-incorporate-them-into-a-walk

Here are some videos on how to use the prong and how to use apply leash pressure 

How to use prong collar part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nibaQnS44FE
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85r03U5WPV8

Introductions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3iczULPcdE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nf0bA9sudM

Conversational leash work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nI3kwaJim4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB8dhKNichw

Usage in controlling out of control dogs coupled with obedience

This one is a wheaten terrier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOTu77d4CPE

Fearful mastiff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn3HSQ_vwRY

crazy reactive lab (he's using a slip collar or dominant collar on the dog - the collar really makes a difference)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSFMc9DxFjM

Leash reactivity (using the prong to control and modify behavior)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmRPxTqeSNQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VZyyNFIgCQ

Anyways remember to treat walks as an opportunity to practice obedience. Proofing basic commands in the real world is the hardest part and you want to make sure your dog listens no matter what and by practicing it becomes second nature.

Here's two of my videos practicing the "turn" command on a long line. This was the next step up from standard 4-6 ft leash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx0b7GW-gz4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6holuI9i9uU


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I don't find correctional collars help a leash reactive dog at all.

I fostered a leash reactive dog, and I am still helping the owner train her. We had her on a correctional collar (choke chain) at the advice of a horrible trainer, and it made her worse and fear going outside.

I use a no pull harness for her and use counterconditioning methods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMLrYaoxNOs

This is the method I use and Goalie has improved drastically. I modified the technique a bit with a clicker (for precision) and in the past few months she's made leaps and bounds. She can now be near a dog who is maybe 15 feet away without freaking out (she used to freak out from like 50 ft away before lol). She's still a work in progress, but it's been helping a lot  I use a really high reward treat during our walks too (I give her raw ground meat as a treat and that's the only time she gets raw ground beef).


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

^I don't necessarily agree with the above post by Hector but it's food for thought. If I'm not mistaken, her dog is a bit small for prongs and the "dominant dog collar"/"control collar" is... Dangerous?!Itd point is to cut off the dog's airflow as a correction! I've read a bit on them and they do not appeal to me, personally. 

That being said, love the links to Dr. Sophia. I use those in conjunction with come training to get a good heel. 

For anyone who wonders what Bae looks like when he sees another dog, he acts like that black lab. I totally need a video of it.

Thanks for the link Taquitos! Leash reactivity videos that use positive techniques can be hard to find.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

That black lab... I just want to scream YOUR DOG IS OVER THRESHOLD


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Rescued said:


> That black lab... I just want to scream YOUR DOG IS OVER THRESHOLD


I love how the trainer thought it would be genius to have his dog in the other dog's house. Like 4ft away. You don't catch me doing that on purpose. But yeah. If Bae is reacting, that's how it looks. "Scary".


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

I haven't looked at the videos yet because I'm at work. But honestly, it's almost impossible to keep Luna under threshold in most real life situations. At obedience class yesterday, only us and another dog showed up, so we had a great lesson, and didn't have too many problems keeping her calm after the initial greeting. However, at the end of class, two dogs arrived for the following class, and she went nuts. This is a very large space, kind of like a high school gym, so you would think it would be enough distance for her, but no. 

As for the prong and similar collars - she's a happy, friendly, little 10-lb mini poodle, I think this would be my last resort, if I was considering it at all, which I'm not. The last thing I want is for her to become fearful of me or the leash, or hurt her trachea. I would also be worried that she would outwardly modify her behaviour, without really fixing the underlying issue, causing her to appear calm, but really be under stress and ready to blow up at any second. I will check out the links and see if there's anything else I can learn from them.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

am sorry I haven't read the entire thread.... but the class situation where the two dogs entered after your class and you have such a huge space to work in... Like you were saying it's such a large area ,,, if it was me... I would of tried instantly walking her ,, fast paced,, to keep her busy and having to focus on keeping up with you... if not trotting back and forth with her (lets go lets go lets go) (give her an outlet to burn off that energy she is using to focus and react on those other dogs) Having a reactive dog, your constantly mentally adjusting to change the situation back into your favor when a dog takes over... I don't feel it is successful to stop the flow of energy coming from a dog,, I think about pushing them through it more to release it... In a constructive way that is helpful to you... finding not the off switch, but like fast forward to the next song on the track of accomplishing getting through it and moving on...


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I am not against correction tools at all but I would personally never use a prong collar on a 10 lb anything. Last resort for me and a 10 lb dog that's out of control? Pick it up. Or 'drag' it in the opposite direction.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

I didn't know Luna was 10lbs?? If she's only 10lbs, it would be even easier to control? Anyway my point was you have work your ass off and curb the behavior before it starts. No collar is going to do the magic for you. They are all training tools, not torture devices. It is the responsibility of the owner to use learn how to use it correctly. When you think about it, the dog strains its own neck and throat by it reacting and the handler pulling it back. I have used the prong collar myself. When I first used it on him, I didn't know of the methods from Dr. Sophia Yin because I had gone to a trainer that was old school and I didn't know that. Anyway, the collar didn't work for me because my dog was too soft and he had too much neck skin it kept falling out of place. So I decided to do more research and thought to myself there must be another way. The prong collar is a lazy man's fix. As you see in my videos I'm only using a martingale collar and my dog is 125lbs and a bundle of muscle and to say the least he's not a friend of everyone. Dog training is trial and error, every dog is different and the owner knows their dog best I hope. The ultimate goal is for the owner to have 100% control and that's not going to happen on it's own. If you want don't like the idea of prong collar or slip collars. Here are more videos without those and positive techniques

Silky leash technique Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZarFGdcj8s

Silky leash technique Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MkG0XHKzLQ

Zak George

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYXfRsHyDqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDk61XaJMpk

BAT training (behavior adjustment training)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwf53xwyndw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p0zsr8SsJs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm5k2tIkXMY

I'm not trying to push anyone to use a prong collar or slip collar, I'm just trying to throw options and techniques out there for the OP to try out.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

taquitos said:


> I don't find correctional collars help a leash reactive dog at all.
> 
> I fostered a leash reactive dog, and I am still helping the owner train her. We had her on a correctional collar (choke chain) at the advice of a horrible trainer, and it made her worse and fear going outside.
> 
> ...


Some dogs are sound sensitive and the sound of the choker freaks them out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYGRc5NUdY

and it doesn't work for every dog and I agree counter conditioning methods are great. I've used it a lot on my dog until he hit 14 months. There comes a point where the dog will be pushed over the threshold in situations where you can't change what is happening in real life and a correction helped my dog snap out of it.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

RabbleFox said:


> ^I don't necessarily agree with the above post by Hector but it's food for thought. If I'm not mistaken, her dog is a bit small for prongs and the "dominant dog collar"/"control collar" is... Dangerous?!Itd point is to cut off the dog's airflow as a correction! I've read a bit on them and they do not appeal to me, personally.


You don't position the prong collar so you have all the prongs around the throat. The rings should be either facing downward from the throat or a bit to the sit so when you apply pressure most if not all should be behind and around the neck. Obviously you would not give the same amount of leash pressure you would give to a 100lb dog vs a 10lb dog. I mean that's just common sense. One could probably break the 10 lb dog's neck by yanking the leash too hard no matter what collar she has on.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Hector4 said:


> Some dogs are sound sensitive and the sound of the choker freaks them out
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYGRc5NUdY
> 
> and it doesn't work for every dog and I agree counter conditioning methods are great. I've used it a lot on my dog until he hit 14 months. There comes a point where the dog will be pushed over the threshold in situations where you can't change what is happening in real life and a correction helped my dog snap out of it.


It's not just the sound. She is generally a very soft dog and does not do well with corrections, period. Choke chains hurt. I'm not saying all dogs are that sensitive, but yeah I am one of those people who are firmly opposed to any correctional collars for any dog I am training (though I can understand why some people would prefer to use it in certain situations).

I do agree that it can be difficult when a dog is pushed over the threshold -- I train her in an area where the streets are pretty narrow and so sometimes that happens... but I also do focus training, and teach a solid "leave it" and go whereever it is possible to get the distance. If she's flipping out, the harness helps (no pain, but gives me lots of control), so I distract her (as much as I can lol) and jog/run away from the dog.

If the dog is as excitable/nervous/aggressive as my foster gets, I don't think correctional collars that suppress behaviour are a good option.

As to the OP, I would try distracting her like another member said. I would get her jogging, listening to you, etc. Chances are you can catch the dogs coming in before she can focus and get to the zone where she is flipping out. I would also suggest finding a place where there is a wide open space and maybe inviting some friends to help you out with it with their dogs, or even go to a dog heavy area (not too dog heavy at first but yeah) like a park and have her practice there


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Hector4 said:


> You don't position the prong collar so you have all the prongs around the throat. The rings should be either facing downward from the throat or a bit to the sit so when you apply pressure most if not all should be behind and around the neck. Obviously you would not give the same amount of leash pressure you would give to a 100lb dog vs a 10lb dog. I mean that's just common sense. One could probably break the 10 lb dog's neck by yanking the leash too hard no matter what collar she has on.


Prong collars should be used when you can no longer safely handle a dog. Prongs make me a lazy, lazy dog walker. Example: My dog is only 50lb but when he lunges, I could lose control of him. Sometimes I choose to use a prong collar so that when I walk in high traffic areas, I don't have the potential for a loose dog and a dangerous situation. Using a prong on a 10lb dog is... silly? to me I guess. I know how a prong is used and how a dog is meant to wear it.  I don't take much offense to prongs unless they are being used incorrectly.

The comment I made about the Dominant Dog collar is featured into the Black Lab's video. Dominant dog collars, even in their description, say that they _cut off a dog's air supply_ to get him to comply. Thats really, really dangerous and not, IMO, a way to train dogs. The trainer in the black lab video puts the dominant dog collar on the dog and WOAH! Magic! The dog stops trying to barking and lunge because he can't breath if he does so.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

RabbleFox said:


> Prong collars should be used when you can no longer safely handle a dog. Prongs make me a lazy, lazy dog walker. Example: My dog is only 50lb but when he lunges, I could lose control of him. Sometimes I choose to use a prong collar so that when I walk in high traffic areas, I don't have the potential for a loose dog and a dangerous situation. Using a prong on a 10lb dog is... silly? to me I guess. I know how a prong is used and how a dog is meant to wear it.  I don't take much offense to prongs unless they are being used incorrectly.



I didn't mean that people who use the prong collar makes them lazy. I meant that if anyone that uses a prong collar thinks that they don't need to put in time to manage the problem behaviors then they are wrong. The prong collar might be a quick fix, but that doesn't mean their problems are fixed. They should slowly been weaned off of the prong collar and this takes time and work and lots of patience. I don't know if that example applies to you, but I'm not really sure how you can keep a dog safe if he ever got loose by using a prong collar? I don't know if the dog has some sort of DA or HA, but I would definitely be attaching the prong to another collar or a harness and have the dog muzzled.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Hector4 said:


> I didn't mean that people who use the prong collar makes them lazy. I meant that if anyone that uses a prong collar thinks that they don't need to put in time to manage the problem behaviors then they are wrong. The prong collar might be a quick fix, but that doesn't mean their problems are fixed. They should slowly been weaned off of the prong collar and this takes time and work and lots of patience. I don't know if that example applies to you, but I'm not really sure how you can keep a dog safe if he ever got loose by using a prong collar? I don't know if the dog has some sort of DA or HA, but I would definitely be attaching the prong to another collar or a harness and have the dog muzzled.




My dog is an adolescent and very large puppy, who presents a danger to ME and to him when he occasionally loses his mind and lunges after a butterfly. 99% of the time he's awesome, but god help us all if he sees something small fluttering or scurrying by on a walk. The way the prong keeps me and him safe is that it's a backup collar, and it keeps me from landing on my face on asphalt, when those events occur. 

Is he being weaned off? Yup, and fairly rapidly, actually. I'm reading RabbleFOx's comment similarly. The prong keeps him safe because it means the dog can't yank her off her feet, or the leash out of her hands on it.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

This may be helpful to you:
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-training-forum/191506-links-books-blogs-etc.html


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Thanks Cpt. Jack that's exactly what I mean. 

Bae Dog lunges if he sees another dog or something else of interest. God help me if I drop the leash. He could get hit by a car or greet an unfriendly dog. Anyone with a husky will tell you that the last thing you'll see is their furry butt disappearing over the horizon. They are not the type of dog to come around after a few minutes. I also would prefer to keep my face intact if he lunges. The prong just keeps him from heaving me onto my arse (or face). 

Bae Dog is not DA or HA. He's just a Husky nut. I haven't used his prong in about a month. We are making head way on his martingale or a slip lead. For me, personally, using the prong all the time makes me a lazy walking trainer. I chose not to use it as often as possible so I can work on loose leash walking in a practical manor. 

Thanks for the link to the links, Shell!


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## Emily1188 (Jun 21, 2011)

FWIW Starrysim, I've had good luck with small, reactive dogs on front clip harnesses. Might be worth a try! It will at least reduce the self-reinforcing aspect of the lunging and barking, since she won't have any leverage.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

PatriciafromCO said:


> am sorry I haven't read the entire thread.... but the class situation where the two dogs entered after your class and you have such a huge space to work in... Like you were saying it's such a large area ,,, if it was me... I would of tried instantly walking her ,, fast paced,, to keep her busy and having to focus on keeping up with you... if not trotting back and forth with her (lets go lets go lets go) (give her an outlet to burn off that energy she is using to focus and react on those other dogs) Having a reactive dog, your constantly mentally adjusting to change the situation back into your favor when a dog takes over... I don't feel it is successful to stop the flow of energy coming from a dog,, I think about pushing them through it more to release it... In a constructive way that is helpful to you... finding not the off switch, but like fast forward to the next song on the track of accomplishing getting through it and moving on...


I haven't tried this, but it sounds like it's worth a try. I've been doing the opposite, trying to calm her down.



Canyx said:


> I am not against correction tools at all but I would personally never use a prong collar on a 10 lb anything. Last resort for me and a 10 lb dog that's out of control? Pick it up. Or 'drag' it in the opposite direction.


Well, she definitely calms down if I pick her up. I just feel that it's not a good idea to pick her up. Thoughts? As for dragging, obviously she's small enough that I can drag her away, but it doesn't solve the problem.



Hector4 said:


> I didn't know Luna was 10lbs?? If she's only 10lbs, it would be even easier to control?.


Well, yes, I can physically control her by pulling her around, but that doesn't solve her reactivity, or teach her to walk nicely.



Emily1188 said:


> FWIW Starrysim, I've had good luck with small, reactive dogs on front clip harnesses. Might be worth a try! It will at least reduce the self-reinforcing aspect of the lunging and barking, since she won't have any leverage.


I've been determined to teach her to walk nicely on a loose leash, so I haven't gotten a front slip harness yet. But maybe it would be a good idea, so that I can focus on her reactivity, without her pulling making things worse. I guess we can get back to the loose leash walking later on. Her walking actually isn't bad, as long as things are nice and boring and nothing is arousing her.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Sorry, I should have clarified that I don't think picking a dog up or dragging it away are good ways of changing the behavior. What I meant was in a pinch, if I had to choose between using a prong collar for control of a 10 lb dog there are much easier means.


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## Ladybug211 (Jun 6, 2012)

Thanks for posting the videos and links. I haven't had time to look at them all yet (grad school is currently sucking up all my free time), but it's definitely on my to-do list. I haven't tried to burn off any energy through moving and then redirecting her focus in these situations, either, but that's worth a try. I was worried about getting her even more excited doing that, so I was trying to go the same route as starryism.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Ladybug211 said:


> Thanks for posting the videos and links. I haven't had time to look at them all yet (grad school is currently sucking up all my free time), but it's definitely on my to-do list. I haven't tried to burn off any energy through moving and then redirecting her focus in these situations, either, but that's worth a try. I was worried about getting her even more excited doing that, so I was trying to go the same route as starryism.


yes your right, not trying to hype them up more but give them a different direction to release.. that is why I like the quick heeling, to trotting because it gives the energy outlet, and it forces them to have to look towards you to see where they and you are going.. happy "lets go lets go lets go, you can do this,, stay with me........ be interesting to them even if that means something different like a sharp whispering to catch their attention when they let go of their focus on the other dog, and get a rhythm with you .. reward you did it.. it is all about learning about them.. what you can put in your tool box to use that catches their attention to let go and move them forward to better activities..


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

PatriciafromCO said:


> yes your right, not trying to hype them up more but give them a different direction to release.. that is why I like the quick heeling, to trotting because it gives the energy outlet, and it forces them to have to look towards you to see where they and you are going.. happy "lets go lets go lets go, you can do this,, stay with me........ be interesting to them even if that means something different like a sharp whispering to catch their attention when they let go of their focus on the other dog, and get a rhythm with you .. reward you did it.. it is all about learning about them.. what you can put in your tool box to use that catches their attention to let go and move them forward to better activities..


In your experience, does this work as a fix for one specific episode, or does it help reduce reactivity long term? I dream of being able to walk past another dog without chaos ensuing.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

my feelings towards reactive behavior,, is that the dogs are stuck in one direction in a situation, and it's a normal response for many handlers to attempt to stop them from reacting that doesn't provide release of the stimulus, but often drives them higher in stimulus excitement, frustration, fear, .... so the dog gets worst in the situation each new time they only learn to escalate .. ... The dogs are missing the skill of coming down out of stimulus... you see silly puppies do it... they see their reflection in the mirror for the first time ,, get their fur all raised up, they bark , dart off away and creep back... everyone laughs at them and doesn't try force them to stay in front of the mirror or get closer to it,,, or attempt to stop them barking and growling at the mirror... so the pup goes uncomfortable high in stimulus but is allowed to work them selves back out the other side of it naturally ( they learn from that "coping skills) 


Distance , space, staying just under threshold and then releasing the pressure.. it gives the dogs that experience of rise and fall in stimulus... Any of us who has ever really scared our self to death having to go into a dark room for something ,, the feeling can intensify to down right painful under our skin and what a relief it is when we can flip on a light in the room to release it .. Dogs have to learn about their bodies the same way. ........ For me yes dogs I have worked with have been successful in learning coping skills long term for all situations.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

PatriciafromCO said:


> Distance , space, staying just under threshold and then releasing the pressure.. it gives the dogs that experience of rise and fall in stimulus... Any of us who has ever really scared our self to death having to go into a dark room for something ,, the feeling can intensify to down right painful under our skin and what a relief it is when we can flip on a light in the room to release it .. Dogs have to learn about their bodies the same way. ........ For me yes dogs I have worked with have been successful in learning coping skills long term for all situations.


Great analogy! I can totally see (in my head) the rise and fall of stimulation for leash reactivity.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

RabbleFox said:


> Great analogy! I can totally see (in my head) the rise and fall of stimulation for leash reactivity.


Yeah, now let's see if we can see it just as clearly in practice 

I have to say, this thread has been a really useful source of new ideas, and the venting and commiserating seems to be therapeutic as well


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

PatriciafromCO said:


> my feelings towards reactive behavior,, is that the dogs are stuck in one direction in a situation, and it's a normal response for many handlers to attempt to stop them from reacting that doesn't provide release of the stimulus, but often drives them higher in stimulus excitement, frustration, fear, .... so the dog gets worst in the situation each new time they only learn to escalate .. ... The dogs are missing the skill of coming down out of stimulus... you see silly puppies do it... they see their reflection in the mirror for the first time ,, get their fur all raised up, they bark , dart off away and creep back... everyone laughs at them and doesn't try force them to stay in front of the mirror or get closer to it,,, or attempt to stop them barking and growling at the mirror... so the pup goes uncomfortable high in stimulus but is allowed to work them selves back out the other side of it naturally ( they learn from that "coping skills)
> 
> 
> Distance , space, staying just under threshold and then releasing the pressure.. it gives the dogs that experience of rise and fall in stimulus... Any of us who has ever really scared our self to death having to go into a dark room for something ,, the feeling can intensify to down right painful under our skin and what a relief it is when we can flip on a light in the room to release it .. Dogs have to learn about their bodies the same way. ........ For me yes dogs I have worked with have been successful in learning coping skills long term for all situations.


Thanks for this. Even for someone who doesn't have a leash reactivity issue, I think I learned a lot here.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

am thankful it was some help to get the idea's ticking around.... I've used T-Touch methods... because it also provides a stimulus experience to the dog that can be uncomfortable in reactive dogs in one direction of the exercise, then smoothed out released the stimulus following through with the touch exercise.. You can do this at home in a non threatening environment .. I feel it does provide the right experience of coping with the stimulus and relief... especially the grounding one that is about reconnecting the legs and the body from head to tail tip... easy and quick to do out in public,, right after you walk out of a reactive situation when you in a safer place... reconnect the body and go on with your day... Used it a lot.... Love it love it... Good to use before you go into an evnironment that is hard on them but you can't avoid needing to go through it...


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Protocol for Relaxation (very long) 

http://www.dogdaysnw.com/doc/Protocol_for_Relaxation-_Karen_Overall.pdf


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Ok, I have a few updates. 

1. She's reactive toward humans now, though it's not as bad as toward dogs. I really have no idea why she's developing new reactivities (bicycles, humans) so suddenly. I don't know if this is related, but she has also been more excitable when riding in a car. She has always loved to go for car rides, and she still does. We have one of those Snoozer Lookout car seats, so she gets to sit up high and look out. She used to be interested and alert, but quiet, only reacting when she saw a dog outside. We even took her on a 4-hour road trip in the summer, and she was great. In early September she started being very vocal when going for rides - whining very high pitched, and being more reactive toward bicycles. She now whines very loud almost the entire time when we go somewhere. It's an excited whine, though. She stops for a second when I tell her "quiet" and I can keep her attention and the whining to a minimum if I feed her treats. On the way home, she's always quiet, it's like she knows we're going home, so she's not excitable.

2. I tried jogging with her to distract her and burn off energy when she began to react toward humans/bicycles, and it sort of worked. She did still yip at a little boy on a bike (he was riding his bike parallel with us on the other side of the street, grrrr), but overall I think it may have helped. I've also tried quickly switching directions and walking faster, calling her name, but that didn't work, she's too fixated on whatever it is that's exciting her. 

3. Now, this is the weird one - my parents watched her for a day, and they both took her on walks. She reacted a bit toward a dog across the street, but no reaction toward bikes or humans. Can someone explain why she only appears to be reactive when she's with me and DH, but not my parents. She likes my parents, but she's very attached to DH and I, so when we leave her alone at their house, she mostly mopes around and waits for us by the door, though she has been getting better, sometimes she plays, and she eats now, and she even slept with them on their bed last night. Barely any reactivity on her walks with them. I should also mention, they are *NOT* experienced dog owners, they've never had a dog and we have to tell them exactly what to do with Luna. My dad is a big Cesar fan, which I haven't discussed with him yet, but I know he doesn't use any Cesar methods on her, he sticks to whatever he sees me do with her, and what I tell him to do.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Starrysim I can't speak about you.. I can only speak about myself.. when my Darien started acting out,, gosh I got the gaulent... the dog is byb, genetic can't be fixed.. he's going to kill someone only option is to put him to sleep.. correct him,, force him to stop... I was a nervous wreck listening to everyone I assumed was my peers in the dog world... All along nothing made sense I knew this dog from puppy hood,, we were in puppy class, adult class and off leash agility class with these trainers... All his acting out was wrong you should never see such an outburst... I stopped listening to them... dead in my tracks one day.. and said you know what Darien,, if your messed up for life because genetic physco can't be fixed so be it...... I don't care... and I stopped worrying about it... didn't phase me at all no matter what he did.. treated him like a normal dog who could do normal things.. I had to get better and get over myself for Darien to accept the training and follow through on what I was showing him.. I was holding my own dog back being a now nervous wreck with no faith in my dog.. all Dariens esculation had a base line in my participation in the beginning where it he could of just gotten over it as nothing,, but I was too emotionally attached to the events, and seeing each event coming.. then as he escalated I escalated into a nervous wreck right along with him... Once I took a step back and started watching him do it,, really watching his movement, intensity just the way he set up , let loose on it.. took the whole picture in just holding the lead and not responding but just watching , .. I knew he's a big butt faker... no way I able to hold back a 90lb dog,, he was faking it.. And when I let him at times go on and on... He got tired,, and I saw my perfect moments to go in with something eles... but he was at a level of faking it then what I thought before...

I put him on a long line and when he went off on seeing people with their dogs.... ( a good distance away) I dropped the long line except the end that was double wrapped and held between my two hands, turned my back to him and walked briskly away... never looked back at him.. just kept on going... Darien ran back to me nudging my hand for me to look at him in a heal on his own.. I made him work for it before I stopped and looked into his eyes wondering what I was seeing... ... That little number didn't fix his reaction,, but it gave a new light on everything about who I was,, and what Darien definitely wasn't.. I wasn't in the best place for the dog,, and Darien was definetly not a crazy genetic physco... I had to change from the inside out for the dog to follow through on the training I was presenting to him... If I didn't believe he could get better, if I didn't believe he was fine, If I didn't believe he could do it...... it went down leash that I was a faker too.... .

One evening Marys family was over for Dinner and we all sitting in the living room, it's pouring outside, lighting storm.. Darien and Major are down in my room area in the basement with the baby gate at the bottom of the stairs they not happy with the storm.. I and hear the gate go down and up comes Darien and he runs over to jump between Mary's grown Son and Daughter... Her son wraps his arms around him cuddling Darien close to him.. And he saying "it's ok Major... Your ok Major" I look over at Mary and Mary looks at me and I shake my head at Mary back and forth about NOoooooo, don't say anything... but I am watching Darien every feature of Dariens face being cuddled and caressed by someone sincere and unafraid of him,, Her son even Kissing Darien on the muzzle telling Major he can stay and sit with him...... and I am just watching every inch in Darien on how he is handling this ..... He was sincerely accepting of her son and everyone near him touching him that it's ok Major your fine........ 

It got to a point I just said OK,, hey buddy we really got to go back down stairs and Darien came with me.. Everyone hugged and petting him Saying good bye Major.... Then when I was down in the basement with Darien,,, Mary busted out laughing and told them that was Darien,, the one they all feared to death.... They refused to believe it... refused that it was Darien and not Major... I thought it was funny that Darien and Major don't even look alike... but I will never forget those moments that you see a dog being normal in a situation they have difficulty with .. so if the dog is fine the only one left in the equation in all these situations is ME... lol lol .... I didn't find that reality condescending,, it actually made me feel better about my dog that he was fine, and we could move forward in presenting training I knew he could learn and follow through without me holding him back or worrying about it while we were getting to the results of our efforts...

I know starrysim it's not an answer for you... it was just a strong turning point for me... wanted to share it just for food for thought...


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

I have wondered whether she senses my tension and frustration. I do try so hard to not let any of that show, but who knows how much dogs actually perceive. She's a very perceptive little dog. But, either way, my husband is the total opposite of me, not easily phased and much calmer than I am. She's the same with him, just as reactive.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

I'm just curious, how do you engage her? What are her motivators? I second the front clip harness. If I were you, I'd practice turning the hell out of the turn - to make it clear that she has to pay attention to you. Do you try to pull her to the side and sit her and hold her attention and have you tried using your body to block her to whatever she's reacting towards? Since she is a small 10lbs, it helps to be down on her level to get her attention and block her and get her to do the "watch me" command or keep her attention with whatever motivates her.

Edit: I agree to remain calm. It's easy to freak out, but as long as you have the leash - you are in control. It's not necessary to yell - just a normal calm tone of voice like you use during training. If she doesn't want to turn, try shortening the lead when you turn so you're holding the base of the lead and then release the leash once turned. Keep doing that until she can do it without getting pulled.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

On Saturday I had to take Bae Dog to a vet clinic to get his 5-in-1 shot for the year. The clinic is held at our local pet store and there are always 5-15 dogs in the store when they come. We were lucky in that there were minimal amounts of dogs when I arrived. I like to come early so we can skip the wait but alas, I had prior engagements. Anywho, Bae did fantastic! I was so proud. We arrived and did some walk abouts in the parking lot as he was excited to be at the pet store. Then we did some sit and be good work right at the front door. He settled rather nicely. We entered and I took survey of all the dogs in the store that I could see. 6 dogs in total. None of them were on flexi-leads or being buttheads and barking/also being reactive. My lucky day! There were only 2 people ahead of us. The one directly ahead of us had a young, very well behaved pitbull. The owner had to fill out a bunch of paperwork whilst we waited behind her. It was perfect. Her dog was sitting or laying down whilst we did some back and forths. We would come towards the stimulus (calm pitty) and then go back up the aisle when I felt him getting ready to be all barky and spazzy. We got closer every time, reward, reward, reward. Within 15 minutes, I had Bae Dog 3ft away from that nice pitbull with no problems!

I'm going to take him to the pet store more often and work with the slow moving/stationary dogs. He seems to do much better there. Walks are still a problem with dogs coming up behind us or coming at us on a narrow strip of concrete. Bae feels trapped by it or something. And the dogs keep coming regardless of what we do (unless we completely turn around; a lot of times, we do!).

Sometimes, when we back off a stimulus, Bae will have residual tension. I can see it in his gait and postures; I can "feel" it through the leash. I tried running a bit with him today after backing away from a guy walking his two flexi-lead, unruly boxers on the sidewalk but that just gets him into _pull_ mode. Pull mode is a scary place where all his Husky comes out and its not safe to have him throwing all his weight into his collar. Obviously, when he is in harness, its perfectly fine to pull me along. On a normal walk, I would like to find a different way for his to release that pressure. Would tug be a good way to let Bae get some of his frustration out after successfully ignoring a trigger?


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

starrysim said:


> I have wondered whether she senses my tension and frustration. I do try so hard to not let any of that show, but who knows how much dogs actually perceive. She's a very perceptive little dog. But, either way, my husband is the total opposite of me, not easily phased and much calmer than I am. She's the same with him, just as reactive.


was thinking about the difference in awareness of your Parents... Just like Marys adult kids,, they all knew Darien scared (itless) of him never a nice thing to say about Darien and for good reason how Darien always responded to them.... but when they thought Darien was Major and treated Darien like he was Major expecting Major to be the sweet big guy they love... Darien was the sweet big guy to them...


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Max used to have a horrible time with oncoming people back when he came to me in November 2000. I started out c/t rapidly as soon as *I* saw this happening after a month or so of thinking about the problem. Max would be fully engaged in eating when the person passed by and it visibly relaxed him. After quite a long time I noticed Max would be looking at me, I would wonder why and see the person approaching. C/t big time. After a while doing that I could praise and give a cookie and now I can just tell him he is a good dog. This is the opposite of controlling the dog's focus and I had no idea such a thing could help. This has been written up by many good trainers, LAT/BAT.

Now I am doing the same thing with Ginger who really wants to visit with other dogs and people and bark at dogs barking at her. A neighbor heard her at her finest and thought she was horribly hurt. Well she was, I wasn't letting her visit the dog across the street. Periodically during a walk I very quietly call Gin and she whips around and gets a treat. When I see another dog I watch Ginger and call her name right when she perks up and cookies until the dog is past. She is free to watch the other dog but I do keep her leash short so she doesn't get to do the super fun lunging to the end of the leash. When she looks at me she gets a cookie and praise. When she is no longer looking around we move on. The little smartie caught on immediately and walks have been much calmer. She is working it and looks to be acting out to get cookies as sometimes I see no tension in her actions even though it has only been a couple months. She has a choice, there is yummy food or she can act out. She only gets food if she is facing me not acting out but she is free to bark and stare and all that stuff if she so chooses. You can push food into the mouth of a reacting dog and I did do that with Sassy at times but it hasn't been necessary with Ginger or Max.

Now I do have issues at the dog park. She is great with the small dogs but sniffs noses through the chain link fence with big dogs, freaks herself out and yells at them. Most of the big dogs are fine and just move off, a few bark back reinforcing her fear of them although they are just trying to get a fun game of fence running going. If I try to keep her from the common fence she does the little dog skitter and is impossible to herd. If I simply walk to the other side of the park she barks as much as she likes and gets to charge across the park to me and get loves. I would love to take food in with me but it is against the rules for very good reason. I am hoping me staying neutral and Ginger getting to run to me will help diffuse all the tension she is feeling about those scary big dogs. It might work - early days yet, this only has come up in the last couple weeks.

Completely agree, *I* am definitely part of the problem. If I am too busy trying to fix things I will make them worse every time. If I just watch my dog and do my part then she figures it out on her own. 99.99% of this is barrier frustration and those barriers are put in place by us humans after all.


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## Ladybug211 (Jun 6, 2012)

PatriciafromCO said:


> my feelings towards reactive behavior,, is that the dogs are stuck in one direction in a situation, and it's a normal response for many handlers to attempt to stop them from reacting that doesn't provide release of the stimulus, but often drives them higher in stimulus excitement, frustration, fear, .... so the dog gets worst in the situation each new time they only learn to escalate .. ... The dogs are missing the skill of coming down out of stimulus... you see silly puppies do it... they see their reflection in the mirror for the first time ,, get their fur all raised up, they bark , dart off away and creep back... everyone laughs at them and doesn't try force them to stay in front of the mirror or get closer to it,,, or attempt to stop them barking and growling at the mirror... so the pup goes uncomfortable high in stimulus but is allowed to work them selves back out the other side of it naturally ( they learn from that "coping skills)
> 
> 
> Distance , space, staying just under threshold and then releasing the pressure.. it gives the dogs that experience of rise and fall in stimulus... Any of us who has ever really scared our self to death having to go into a dark room for something ,, the feeling can intensify to down right painful under our skin and what a relief it is when we can flip on a light in the room to release it .. Dogs have to learn about their bodies the same way. ........ For me yes dogs I have worked with have been successful in learning coping skills long term for all situations.


The puppy comparison makes a lot of sense! Thank you so much for posting; looking at this from different perspectives is extremely helpful. Like starryism mentioned, commiserating doesn't hurt either. 

In class this week I did try moving around more when I felt Betty starting to fixate on what another dog was doing, rather than asking her to stay still and look at me. Just walking around in a heel-like position and doing a lot of turns seemed to help, both by refocusing her attention on me and getting her feet moving. I also brought better treats (tiny pieces of hot dog) specifically for situations that we set up in which the dogs are closer to one another, and we only had one small reaction when I dropped the ball in maintaining her attention. I'm going to give the higher value treats a try on our next walk and see if that is also more successful. She is inconsistent in whether or not she responds to food rewards on walks, but hopefully these will be a bit more of an incentive. 

RabbleFox- That's great news! We seem to do better in opposite types of situations, but pet stores are definitely a goal for me. In terms of helping Bae release some of that residual tension--- I think tugging is a great thing to try! It doesn't involve pulling, but it's still physical and a reward.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

RabbleFox said:


> On Saturday I had to take Bae Dog to a vet clinic to get his 5-in-1 shot for the year. The clinic is held at our local pet store and there are always 5-15 dogs in the store when they come. We were lucky in that there were minimal amounts of dogs when I arrived. I like to come early so we can skip the wait but alas, I had prior engagements. Anywho, Bae did fantastic! I was so proud. We arrived and did some walk abouts in the parking lot as he was excited to be at the pet store. Then we did some sit and be good work right at the front door. He settled rather nicely. We entered and I took survey of all the dogs in the store that I could see. 6 dogs in total. None of them were on flexi-leads or being buttheads and barking/also being reactive. My lucky day! There were only 2 people ahead of us. The one directly ahead of us had a young, very well behaved pitbull. The owner had to fill out a bunch of paperwork whilst we waited behind her. It was perfect. Her dog was sitting or laying down whilst we did some back and forths. We would come towards the stimulus (calm pitty) and then go back up the aisle when I felt him getting ready to be all barky and spazzy. We got closer every time, reward, reward, reward. Within 15 minutes, I had Bae Dog 3ft away from that nice pitbull with no problems!
> 
> I'm going to take him to the pet store more often and work with the slow moving/stationary dogs. He seems to do much better there. Walks are still a problem with dogs coming up behind us or coming at us on a narrow strip of concrete. Bae feels trapped by it or something. And the dogs keep coming regardless of what we do (unless we completely turn around; a lot of times, we do!).
> 
> Sometimes, when we back off a stimulus, Bae will have residual tension. I can see it in his gait and postures; I can "feel" it through the leash. I tried running a bit with him today after backing away from a guy walking his two flexi-lead, unruly boxers on the sidewalk but that just gets him into _pull_ mode. Pull mode is a scary place where all his Husky comes out and its not safe to have him throwing all his weight into his collar. Obviously, when he is in harness, its perfectly fine to pull me along. On a normal walk, I would like to find a different way for his to release that pressure. Would tug be a good way to let Bae get some of his frustration out after successfully ignoring a trigger?


that is great he did well.. life is always going to have moments for uncertainty or reactions... for me it's ok I find that normal.... that part doesn't bother me... I focus on recovery and moving on.. I think if a tug would lift her spirits after coming out of a trigger I would defiently put it in my tool box to use. and then we move on...


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

He just stays so freaking tense after seeing another dog and not being able to bark like a lunatic. Running it off works but I would rather not be pulled onto my arse every time XD. When we do our runs at night, its cani-cross style so I'm really unlikely ot get completely yanked over. I will definitely try tug. I'll be taking him to the pet store a few times a week to get more dog exposure. Walking around the neighborhood is a crap shoot with how many dogs will be out. Sometimes, there are 5 or 6 being walked. Most times there aren't any! Makes for really sporadic training. I'll see if he'll tug with me at the store/when we are out walking. He relatively mouthy so tug is his favorite.

Thank you guys for the support and advice! I definitely appreciate it. Starryism, how goes things for you?


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Any thing we need the dogs to be able to do themselves takes time.. And sure it's going to be clumsy and sloppy, and a bit of awkward chaos in the beginning.. Each and every time they learn to go through it and move on with the move on part being a high point for them... They learn to do it quicker and more organized each time we work with them and do it with them... Darien was beaten/tortured so badly his leg was broken in two places, and his rib was broken .. and that was his first impression of the world as a pup and what he expected to not be safe in the world. I wish I had been smarter and stronger in the beginning for him but I wasn't and I took behaviors in him that were surface behaviors and I dug them deeper and harder into explosive behaviors ,, thinking I was doing the right thing at the time for him. 3 years of working with Darien,, and I would take an inch in a positive direction of facing a situation and Darien giving me just a tiny inch of what I hope he could learn during our training.. Maybe the next time was ugly crazy... lol... I didn't see them as set backs,,, I knew we were making progress even on the bad days lol... I was confident on the bad days that we were a team getting through anything as a team. We developed so many skills together despite each of our short comings as individuals lol ......... Darien,,,, I found a job to use his talents ... He was the best Demo dog for Marys prospective puppy owners... He saved those pups, he made conscious new owners... I loved giving that Demo to them ... Dariens **ship** in your pants demonstration was very useful to get new puppy owners attention about bringing their new puppies up right and not messing with their heads doing stupid stuff,, because they would end up with 96lbs like Darien...,, Then for the people who were still left and interested in a GSD puppy... I asked everyone if they would like to work with Darien on lead... Once the bravest person in the group said he would and everyone saw Darien be such a joy to work with and how smart he was to mold to anyone he was working with.... More wanted to feel what it was like working with Darien.. and loved it.. and so did Darien... we looking at 3 years,,, 1 year of making all the mistakes in the world on my part,, and 2 years to clean up my mess that I personally play'd a part in... That is what happen to me.... I do much better because it doesn't bother me what they do... and I don't care what other people think... Totally focused on what our task is, everything is point A to point B lol.. everything is a task and the skills/teamwork it takes to get there... If a dog can't handle an hour long class... then don't do the hour... Arka was good for 10 -15 minutes in an hour long class... I paid for the full hour lol... but we always stopped when I saw the happy brightness in Arka starting to dim... we go off to the side and let Arka crash and burn while watch the others complete the class .... Adele who was a little DA getting her into a class situation... We came in early to see the training center ... stay'd in class for the first 10 minutes then we left went to a quiet rest stop on the way home and walked around there... She never developed into full DA if that might of been an option for her... She does full classes now doesn't care.. I know it's hard, and I know it at time fells defeating... Everyone of them can find a good place to (work it like a task) to move on...


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm not sure how it's going. Good days and bad days, you know? To tell the truth, I'm quite overwhelmed. I asked for more help in this thread, and now I have so many more ideas that I'm not sure what to try first, and how to be somewhat consistent and persistent. I need to go through this thread post by post and make some notes to clarify things for myself.

So far, I've tried jogging with her, both BEFORE she fully reacts, and AFTER an intense reaction. Sometimes it seems to work a bit, and sometimes not. I think running frustrates her as well, because I can't run nearly as fast as she would like to. Sometimes she calms down after running, other times she remains agitated. As for trotting in a nice heel - ha, yeah right, wouldn't that be nice!

I took a tug toy on two walks, but, figures, we didn't run into any situations on those walks. I'll try again.

I've realized that she's more reactive toward strange dogs. On our walks, I have the most luck having her sit and stay calm when it's one of her good buddies approaching. One of her buddies a few doors down, a super cute little mutt who came from an abusive home but is just an amazing sweet well-adjusted dog, Luna doesn't react to him at all anymore, except pull a bit to get to him. Her other buddy Mac, she will sit-stay while he approaches and comes all the way up to her nose. Also, at class yesterday, there were 4 dogs total. Three dogs and their owners were in the center of the room, sit-staying nicely and focusing on the owner, while the fourth dog was walking around in a circle with the owner. Super good exercise. Luna was doing so well, as long as one of her two buddies was doing the circling (a giant Leonberger puppy who weighs as much as I do, and a hairy, very pretty Mexican Xolo). However, the third dog, a little Chihuahua, is fearful and has never really played with Luna or met her, really. When she came by, oh man, Luna went into full on, outdoor-worthy reactive mode. She also reacts very strongly when the dogs arrive for the next class, but is mostly fine when her Leonberger or Xolo buddies arrive. Treats, body blocking, turning around, nothing works when she's so far gone.

I ordered and Easy Walk harness, I wish Amazon would ship it already. I'm hopeful it will help.

Impulse training is going so well. Today I put a bully stick across her paws as she was lying down, and she looked at me waiting for the OK. I wonder if taking a bully stick on our walks would help. I'll get some hot dogs too. Cheese is probably her highest value treat, after bully sticks, but even cheese isn't good enough most of the time when outdoors. She'll look at the cheese in my hand, then go back to pulling ahead. Silly mutt.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Bae is also unreactive/not impressed by dogs he already has met. If he can greet them, we could walk sued by side with no issues. If he hasn't met them... Oh no! Gruff gruff!


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

RabbleFox said:


> Bae is also unreactive/not impressed by dogs he already has met. If he can greet them, we could walk sued by side with no issues. If he hasn't met them... Oh no! Gruff gruff!


Well, it has taken me 8 months to figure it out. sigh. No wonder I'm not getting anywhere with her


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Don't feel overwhelmed with all the advice. Pick one that you think would work best for your dog and stick with it for a bit. It is normal to have good days and bad days. In fact, when it seems like things are at their peak there are such things called "extinction bursts" when bad behaviors crop up again. Make it through that and you're solid. But do give it a longer chance. It'll take more than just a few days.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Ok, so today I was googling leash reactivity and harnesses, and this thread came up on the first page *facepalm* 

Her easy walk harness was shipped, I'm hoping it will arrive tomorrow so I don't have to wait until Monday.

I think the worst part about reactivity is that it takes so long to see results, that you have no idea if you're doing the right thing. I kept trying for months, hoping and thinking we were improving, especially because she was reacting less in some situations (familiar dogs). It was a huge wake-up call when she suddenly developed bicycle and human reactivity. I thought we were getting somewhere, but apparently it's just the opposite. Human reactivity is even worse. At least, with dogs, you hope that their owner understands. With humans, most people aren't dog people, they don't get it. They just see a barking, lunging black terror, not my sweet friendly good dog Luna. It's awful. With bicycles, it sucks too because sometimes they come up from behind, you have no idea they're there until the dog lunges sideways and the poor guy on the bike swerves for dear life. I don't ride a bike, but that must suck for the rider.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Max still gets freaked out if some people cross whatever his boundary is. Sure wish I knew where it was. He is fine with people talking to ME but if they talk to him he might or might not decide they are too close. When he is off leash he moves away and is fine. Sometimes if people call him by name he is fine with them and is friends too. He is probably throwing all kinds of signals but since I am busy greeting the people I never pick up on them.

Max was not fond of skateboards at first but there is a little fenced in skatepark we have to walk past on the way to the park so he got over it. Be great if there was something like that around you, lots of bikes you must pass in order to get to some fun thing. Bicyclists do use poor judgement and don't obey the rules of the road much of the time as well, this isn't all on you. You could try walking on the side of the street facing traffic as bikes are supposed to ride with traffic but good luck with that, most don't seem to realize that is where they belong, in the street like a car.

Ginger's reactivity training is going well. Perhaps the combination of I have been down this road already so I am not so upset by my cute little raging maniac, she hasn't practiced it here for long and it isn't fear based for the most part is why. Her incredible handler focus cannot hurt either, never had a dog that was so quick to learn to pay attention to ME. Lots of cookies combined with a strict diet so she is likely pretty hungry doesn't hurt either. On Tuesday she did much better at the dog park. Since there weren't any other dogs on the small dog side I kept her on leash on the side away from the big dogs and when she started reacting I reversed direction until she stopped grumbling. No cookies as it is a bad idea to bring them in the park. As time passed we moved closer to the big dogs. Kept that up until dogs came in then the leash came off. Probably some of the edge was gone more than she got the message but she was better around the big dogs than her own side of the park where she was quite the stinker around a sweet dog that lives to chase balls. On a short hike yesterday we met up with lots of dogs and she was really quiet if not actually good [my fingers are a bit chewed up today]. Since the area had been burnt over this past spring it was super easy to move as far as I liked out of the way and calmly wait for her to look at me to get a cookie. She hasn't had any issues with bikes or trucks or skateboards. Hope I will recognize new triggers faster than I did with Max and will not stop carrying cookies with me for the forseeable future.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Kathyy said:


> Max was not fond of skateboards at first but there is a little fenced in skatepark we have to walk past on the way to the park so he got over it. Be great if there was something like that around you, lots of bikes you must pass in order to get to some fun thing. Bicyclists do use poor judgement and don't obey the rules of the road much of the time as well, this isn't all on you. You could try walking on the side of the street facing traffic as bikes are supposed to ride with traffic but good luck with that, most don't seem to realize that is where they belong, in the street like a car..


Oh, I'm talking about neighbourhood kids out riding their bikes on the sidewalks, and people riding bikes on paved walking paths. They're definitely not riding on the street.

So, it's Halloween tonight. I was planning to spend the night in the bedroom with Luna. She's fine with visitors, but with her recent increased reactivity, I didn't want to chance spooking her or something. But I was late getting home, so I left strict instructions for DH to give her cheese every time a kid comes to the door. Well, we needn't have bothered. She's perfectly fine with people coming to the door, weird costumes, etc. Not a hint of a problem. A few of the kids even recognized her and called her by name. I even took her for a walk, and with all the extra people and kids around the neighbourhood, she only slightly reacted towards one guy who was coming toward us on the sidewalk. I pulled her onto a driveway and kept her focus with treats, and that was that. I don't know, maybe the difference is that usually I walk her as soon as I get home from work, so she's all excited and hyped up that I'm home and we're going out. This time, I took her much later than usual. Could that be it, I don't know.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

I am curious if there are any updates?


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

I've been meaning to ask for updates too. For us, there's nothing new. We rarely meet other dogs now that it's cold and the days are short. We only see another dog on our walks maybe once or twice a week. No bicycles or kids either. Actually, we did take her to the Christmas tree farm, where there were lots of dogs. She yipped and pulled the whole time, and I was way too busy and cold to do serious training. I just did basics, asking for her attention, etc. 

I didn't like the Easy Walk harness, and it didn't fit her, so I returned it. The chest strap was way too tight, IIRC. Then I got the Sense-ation, which I don't really like either. For one, the fit is weird on her. The chest strap is so loose, and I can't tighten it any more, even though it's the right size for her. I know it's supposed to be a bit loose, but it's very loose. She got out of it once when DH was walking her. It's scary because we walk her along a busy road as well, and that's one of our only available routes that's not salted in the winter, and isn't too dark and deserted. I also don't like how it buckles under her front legs - it's so awkward to find the little clip. And she still pulls on it, just enough to not spin around, but there is always tension. The leash also gets caught between her legs/ under her stomach. So I've been finding myself using the Puppia more often, but DH is using the Sense-ation. I also got the Sense-ation leash, and I really really like it, it has a very light clip and it's a nice soft material.

So that's where we're at. I don't think we'll be making any progress until spring.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Baelfire had to be rehomed. :/


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

RabbleFox said:


> Baelfire had to be rehomed. :/


How come? I missed this.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

starrysim said:


> How come? I missed this.


My mom wanted to take her dog back. Pepper was my mom's dog and Bae's companion. Bae Dog has terrible separation anxiety. He couldn't be crated because he would scratch up his face and break his crate. He couldn't be left free in the house because he got destructive. He actually ate my bed once. My parents are divorced and my mom was simply letting me borrow Pepper until I could get Bae's separation problem under control. Even with medication, the anxiety was too much without another dog. 

I begged my dad to let me get a second dog but he would not yield. One day, I broke down (I'd had a bad day and Bae had gotten out to attack a neighbor's dog (no injuries, I was on his heels)) and my family convinced me to surrender him to a rescue. They said his relationship with me was unhealthy and that he was too much for me. They claimed he broke me. 5 days later, I dropped him off at his foster home and left him there. He was adopted 3 days later. My mom convinced me to purchase Merlin (pictured in my avatar) to fill the empty hole in my life. 2 weeks of trying to move on to no avail, I emailed the rescue to see if he was hellish enough for his adoptive family to give him back to me. They were smitten with Bae. He has a good home now with people who love him. 

He took a huge chunk of my heart. I've been greiving ever since.  He was my heart dog and I wasn't ready to let him go.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

RabbleFox said:


> My mom wanted to take her dog back. Pepper was my mom's dog and Bae's companion. Bae Dog has terrible separation anxiety. He couldn't be crated because he would scratch up his face and break his crate. He couldn't be left free in the house because he got destructive. He actually ate my bed once. My parents are divorced and my mom was simply letting me borrow Pepper until I could get Bae's separation problem under control. Even with medication, the anxiety was too much without another dog.
> 
> I begged my dad to let me get a second dog but he would not yield. One day, I broke down (I'd had a bad day and Bae had gotten out to attack a neighbor's dog (no injuries, I was on his heels)) and my family convinced me to surrender him to a rescue. They said his relationship with me was unhealthy and that he was too much for me. They claimed he broke me. 5 days later, I dropped him off at his foster home and left him there. He was adopted 3 days later. My mom convinced me to purchase Merlin (pictured in my avatar) to fill the empty hole in my life. 2 weeks of trying to move on to no avail, I emailed the rescue to see if he was hellish enough for his adoptive family to give him back to me. They were smitten with Bae. He has a good home now with people who love him.
> 
> He took a huge chunk of my heart. I've been greiving ever since.  He was my heart dog and I wasn't ready to let him go.


Sorry, as long as the people love him despite his baggage.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Hector4 said:


> Sorry, as long as the people love him despite his baggage.


I'm happy for him but sad for me. I loved working with him despite his neurotic and frustrating ways. He taught me a lot. I know that my next dog will most likely be a rescued husky or husky mix and that I might want to get into fostering huskies. They need special people to work with them and give them their time. And man, huskies need a lot of time. Bae's leash reactivity was only one of his many problems but something about him made up for all that. His new family sees it too.

I miss his big, dumb fur face.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

RabbleFox said:


> My mom wanted to take her dog back. Pepper was my mom's dog and Bae's companion. Bae Dog has terrible separation anxiety. He couldn't be crated because he would scratch up his face and break his crate. He couldn't be left free in the house because he got destructive. He actually ate my bed once. My parents are divorced and my mom was simply letting me borrow Pepper until I could get Bae's separation problem under control. Even with medication, the anxiety was too much without another dog.
> 
> I begged my dad to let me get a second dog but he would not yield. One day, I broke down (I'd had a bad day and Bae had gotten out to attack a neighbor's dog (no injuries, I was on his heels)) and my family convinced me to surrender him to a rescue. They said his relationship with me was unhealthy and that he was too much for me. They claimed he broke me. 5 days later, I dropped him off at his foster home and left him there. He was adopted 3 days later. My mom convinced me to purchase Merlin (pictured in my avatar) to fill the empty hole in my life. 2 weeks of trying to move on to no avail, I emailed the rescue to see if he was hellish enough for his adoptive family to give him back to me. They were smitten with Bae. He has a good home now with people who love him.
> 
> He took a huge chunk of my heart. I've been greiving ever since.  He was my heart dog and I wasn't ready to let him go.


Awww I'm sorry you're hurting. At least he has a family who's doing well with him. Maybe just let them know that if anything EVER comes up, to let you know and you will take him back, instead of him being surrendered again.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

starrysim said:


> Awww I'm sorry you're hurting. At least he has a family who's doing well with him. Maybe just let them know that if anything EVER comes up, to let you know and you will take him back, instead of him being surrendered again.


Yeah. I for sure let them know that my home is always open. There is always a little more room for a husky in my bed. 

On another note, last I worked with him, his reactivity was getting better. I made a point to go to pet stores as often as possible to get more exposure. Pet stores also have the added bonus of being dry and warm. 

On another, another note, Merlin has slight leash reactivity that we'll be working on in a similar fashion. And socialization to men folk. We want out CGC before the end of 2014.


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## starrysim (Dec 2, 2012)

Since this is a leash reactivity thread, might as well tell us a bit more about Merlin and your experience with him


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

for people reactive dogs , does anyone have an ice breaker ? I used Darien's ball... before DH was DH he had met all my other dogs, and when he met Darien we went to an open feild and I gave DH the rules ... I hold the long line, by Darien, and toss the ball to DH and he tosses the back to Darien,, Darien will bring it back and drop it at DH's feet and then back up and sit so DH can bend over to pick it to toss it back to Darien... We had been working on the people toss the ball and Darien bring it back to me to toss back to the people.. and just kept working with Darien having set rules for people.. so the ball game became an ice breaker that Darien could connect with and have more direct time with people he didn't know.. Some one above mentioned that if they met someone and the person talked to them and didn't pay any attention to the dog, the dog was fine... and that is a level that Darien was able to get to, and it was definitely something I could use to have more exposure with people more often when we were out an about... Meeting strangers and just having a short conversation everyone ignore the dog to include looking at him and then we move on ... so being approached by walking people who were not going to stop, became less of a concern for him... It was so random of me greeting people or never greeting people on a walk he couldn't anticipate..


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