# A New Nosework Thread



## trainingjunkie

Is anyone on her training or competing in Nosework? How are things going? What are you working on?


----------



## elrohwen

Nope :-( We've totally let nosework go. I would like to start Hazel on it, but there's always so much other stuff to train. It would be nice to get Watson back into a class but I haven't found a single one since we've moved so I'll have to do it myself. It would be nice to get his NW1 some day.


----------



## LeoRose

I still dabble a bit. I need to get it in gear, though, and start some serious training. I'd _like _to get all five PTs for Leo and Lily next year, and if we picked up an actual title or two, I'd be ecstatic. I mean, I've got a UKC club holding trials practically in my back yard, and another within a few hours driving distance, so I really should take advantage of them.


----------



## trainingjunkie

We participated this weekend. Ky took her first crack at NW2 and Mahto and I both debuted in NW3. We had a really nice weekend. The people were awesome, the volunteers were kind, the judges were a blast. It was just a really great time. I think the nosework atmosphere is one of the best.


----------



## elrohwen

Nice job on the NW2 and NW3!


----------



## cookieface

Congrats, trainingjunkie, Ky, and Mahto!

Can I join in here even though were just starting? 

Tyson and I took two classes last year with an instructor working on certification and we re-started this spring after about a year off. On Saturday he had his first experience with odor. He did better than I did - I thought there was only one hide in the room, but kept searching until he found the second.

On Sunday, I volunteered at an ORT and it was a great experience! I loved watching (most of) the teams worked and (think I) learned quite a bit by observing body language and behavior.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Thanks guys! It was a great weekend. My dogs were just so cool! We were at a race track (horses) and the weather was stunning. So much fun!

YES Cookieface! Jump it! I would love to see some nosework conversations! Congrats on your start on odor! The fun begins!


----------



## elrohwen

trainingjunkie said:


> Thanks guys! It was a great weekend. My dogs were just so cool! We were at a race track (horses) and the weather was stunning. So much fun!


Wow, a racetrack?! What a cool place to trial! The two trials + ORT we did were at summer camps and a community college.


----------



## craftyfaith

I haven't done any nosework but I'm considering taking Nosework 101 on Fenzi in December. Seems like an ideal learning situation given that Milo is pretty distractible and I think he wouldn't learn as well in a group class. Milo is very sent oriented and I suspect he'd enjoy nosework. I'm excited about the possibility of taking this class.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Yeah! Canterbury Downs! It was just beautiful and so much fun. Like a dream location to trial!


----------



## trainingjunkie

craftyfaith said:


> I haven't done any nosework but I'm considering taking Nosework 101 on Fenzi in December. Seems like an ideal learning situation given that Milo is pretty distractible and I think he wouldn't learn as well in a group class. Milo is very sent oriented and I suspect he'd enjoy nosework. I'm excited about the possibility of taking this class.


Not that you were looking for input, but my only learning experience in Nosework has been the online classes at Fenzi. I think nosework really lends itself to on-line learning. Welcome to the game!


----------



## craftyfaith

trainingjunkie said:


> Not that you were looking for input, but my only learning experience in Nosework has been the online classes at Fenzi. I think nosework really lends itself to on-line learning. Welcome to the game!


 That's great feedback. I'm really looking forward to the class. Any thoughts on benefits of signing up as a bronze vs. gold level? I've taken a couple classes at a bronze level and enjoyed them. I'm hoping to snag a gold level spot for Donna Hill's recall class in february but I'm on the fence about doing nosework at bronze vs. gold.


----------



## trainingjunkie

If money isn't tight, I would take it at gold. There are lots of little details that the instructors will notice if you film.

If money IS tight, just pay close attention to the details. I have yet to take a NW class at gold, although I am sure I would really enjoy it.

I had a leg up- I used to handle a narcotics dog and I cross-train in a lot of sports. And I have a phenomenal training partner. Made all the difference.

You are going to love the game!


----------



## LeoRose

craftyfaith said:


> I haven't done any nosework but I'm considering taking Nosework 101 on Fenzi in December. Seems like an ideal learning situation given that Milo is pretty distractible and I think he wouldn't learn as well in a group class. Milo is very sent oriented and I suspect he'd enjoy nosework. I'm excited about the possibility of taking this class.


Another vote here for FDSA nosework. I like the "on odor from the beginning" style of training over the "hunt for food for ages, then hunt for paired hides for ages, and then have to teach the dog to ignore food entirely" style of training (I know there are a lot of people who prefer the other way, though).


----------



## cookieface

We had our second class with odor yesterday. Videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxEL_-trIpw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5-z6o7Rz1Q

Does it seem like he enjoys it?


----------



## cookieface

We had our second odor class yesterday and have videos. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxEL_-trIpw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5-z6o7Rz1Q

Does it look like he enjoys it? I worry that class is too stressful for him.


----------



## trainingjunkie

I think you guys look great! What are you searching for? Odor alone or paired?


----------



## cookieface

Thanks. Odor and food right now. I'm not sure when we'll remove the food. Is there a general time line for that?


----------



## trainingjunkie

Everyone's different. If you like your coach, just trust your coach!

I never paired. I started on straight odor, so I am not very educated on the method you are using.

In unrelated news, I competed in my second NW3 trial in a week yesterday and got another leg! If interested, here are our NW3 runs from last Sunday. My Saturday videos haven't arrived yet: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZl9wHi_m9I


----------



## cookieface

trainingjunkie said:


> Everyone's different. If you like your coach, just trust your coach!
> 
> I never paired. I started on straight odor, so I am not very educated on the method you are using.
> 
> In unrelated news, I competed in my second NW3 trial in a week yesterday and got another leg! If interested, here are our NW3 runs from last Sunday. My Saturday videos haven't arrived yet:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZl9wHi_m9I


Thanks! Congrats on the trial placement!

We just got back from class - Tyson loves it so much. It's great to see him so happy and gaining confidence.


----------



## Dogsignalfire

Lancer's using a ball reward now and doing super well with it on interiors/exteriors. I messed up somewhere along the way with boxes though, because he thinks that "pawing at all boxes" results in getting the ball now, and not actually focusing on scents... so I might have to go back to pairing with food for that?

Also, I'm wondering how do I even find local mock ORT's? I'd ask our trainer, but I kinda feel like she prefers us to be 100% ready before we even attempt an ORT... so I'm going to do it secretly if I find one. LOL


----------



## trainingjunkie

Dogsignalfire said:


> Lancer's using a ball reward now and doing super well with it on interiors/exteriors. I messed up somewhere along the way with boxes though, because he thinks that "pawing at all boxes" results in getting the ball now, and not actually focusing on scents... so I might have to go back to pairing with food for that?
> 
> Also, I'm wondering how do I even find local mock ORT's? I'd ask our trainer, but I kinda feel like she prefers us to be 100% ready before we even attempt an ORT... so I'm going to do it secretly if I find one. LOL


If you have friends who train, why not just do your own?

As for your pawing, what would happen if you put the boxes on benches or chairs and worked them? That way, he would know that the pawing isn't paying?


----------



## Dogsignalfire

trainingjunkie said:


> Dogsignalfire said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lancer's using a ball reward now and doing super well with it on interiors/exteriors. I messed up somewhere along the way with boxes though, because he thinks that "pawing at all boxes" results in getting the ball now, and not actually focusing on scents... so I might have to go back to pairing with food for that?
> 
> Also, I'm wondering how do I even find local mock ORT's? I'd ask our trainer, but I kinda feel like she prefers us to be 100% ready before we even attempt an ORT... so I'm going to do it secretly if I find one. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> If you have friends who train, why not just do your own?
> 
> As for your pawing, what would happen if you put the boxes on benches or chairs and worked them? That way, he would know that the pawing isn't paying?
Click to expand...

I totally would if I had friends around doing nose work. I'm kind of on my own, I just have barely acquaintences, and they're busier people than me.

I'm not very sure what you mean, but he jumps on the chairs/benches to paw on them. I've been starting to fix this problem since only yesterday though, by starting from two or three boxes again and rewarding without waiting for his reaction yet, and it seems to be working.


----------



## Dogsignalfire

Well, I think I'm switching to a different trainer who seems much less busy, and they do mock ORTs and mock trials! YAY


----------



## cookieface

Tyson and I haven't been in class for almost a month and class tomorrow is looking iffy (the instructor won't drive in ice or snow), but we practiced a little last night. I've been concerned that he's not making any association with the odor and just returning to places he's been rewarded or nosing all the containers and hoping for a reward.

After our session, we were in the laundry room (where some of our training stuff - including our NW kit - is stored). He walked over to the partially open odor kit and started nosing it! Of course it could have been just because it was a strong odor, but I quickly found some treats and rewarded heavily. It was nice to have some tiny bit of encouragement.


----------



## Canyx

Ugh, I need to get back into this. I mean, I haven't 'quit' or anything and I've done some very quick and informal hides every now and then. But I should do it more because Sor loves it so much. I am being selfish... I currently have a jigsaw puzzle going on the coffee table and when Sor searches he tends to sweep surfaces with his face and knock things over 

But congrats trainingjunkie on your accomplishments from earlier in this post. And it's super cool that you guys are doing this! I actually signed up for a nosework course in the only place within a hundred mile radius that teaches it (and uses R+ training), and they just closed down. So I am out of luck!


----------



## Dogsignalfire

Canyx said:


> I actually signed up for a nosework course in the only place within a hundred mile radius that teaches it (and uses R+ training), and they just closed down. So I am out of luck!


I think nothing beats having a good instructor as a 2nd pair of eyes and building strong foundation, but I've heard good things about the online fenzi course! They're like crash courses, but I guess you learn a lot of good info.


----------



## trainingjunkie

What do you mean by saying that Fenzi classes are Crash Courses?


----------



## Dogsignalfire

trainingjunkie said:


> What do you mean by saying that Fenzi classes are Crash Courses?


They're 6 weeks courses that give you a lot of info and training to do, which is usually what crash course means haha.


----------



## cookieface

Tyson and I had a great NW class. I was a little nervous because it was our first class since December 10 and we've only practiced once. Then I was really nervous because the first search was an unpaired hide (set up like an ORT except we knew which box had the odor).

Well, he was (I think) the second fastest dog to find the odor! Then he was the first (maybe only) dog to find one of the hides in the lobby and he dragged me to a hide I didn't even know about. I was telling him all done and the instructor said, "No there's a hide under his nose."

The only bad thing was that the dogs were crated fairly close to each other. When we were packing up, I took the sheets off his crate and he barked at the dog next to us.


----------



## Laurelin

Hank and I got our NW1 a few months ago. (Oct? Nov?). We got 2nd place overall and he was a total rockstar. Sadly any find a local ort for clove and anise so may be a bit before we trial at level two.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Awesome job! Have videos?

Sorry to hear about the ORT. Are you willing to do some driving to get it out of the way?


----------



## cookieface

Tyson and I had a really good class today. I'm still shocked that he's able to find unpaired odor. More importantly he was able to watch other dogs work and walk around the room (I only let him watch when they were at least about 10' away). The only time he seemed upset was when the boxer was galloping back and forth through the hides.


----------



## cookieface

We had a great NW class yesterday. It started out kinda hairy - half the dogs in our class plus an entire puppy class were in front of the building when we got out of the car. Yikes! We hung back, did some tricks, ate some cheese, and waited for most of the dogs to leave. Tyson was fine. He saw the dogs, but turned his attention back to me, and was able to follow cues and eat.

In class, he watched most of the dogs work; I only covered his crate when other dogs were walking towards us or very close to the crate. He woofed once, but otherwise just watched and ate treats.

Oh yeah, classwork itself was good, too. Apparently he works better off leash and when I don't crowd him. He did great with the hide that was hanging from the ceiling. He's so different in class than when we practice at home - he always surprises me.


----------



## trainingjunkie

What level of class is it?


----------



## cookieface

trainingjunkie said:


> What level of class is it?


Um, I'm not sure. It's the second of two six-week Intro to Odor sessions which followed three six-week sessions of Intro to Nosework. We started pairing odor and food in late October. This is the course listing at our training center: http://www.dtccc.org/K9-nose-work.htm


----------



## trainingjunkie

Sounds like really advanced stuff, especially for an intro class! Good job!


----------



## cookieface

trainingjunkie said:


> Sounds like really advanced stuff, especially for an intro class! Good job!


Thanks. There's a more advanced class before ours, so I think the instructor just leaves the same set up for our class. lol


----------



## cookieface

Tyson and I had a pretty good class today. He was a little more nervous than usual probably because he had a significant amount of exposure to other dogs on the way to class and we had several barky dogs in class. 

The first search had four hides, three paired, one unpaired. They were all set up in or hanging from various types of fabric (pieces of lace and a reflective blanket). The second search was a paired hide hanging from the ceiling this week with chairs, a baby carriage, bike, and wheelchair set up around the hide. It was so interesting to watch when the dogs found odor and how they followed it to the source in both situations. 

He also did really well with watching the other dogs search and walk across the room. The only incident was when I wasn't paying attention to the dog behind us when she came out of her crate - I should have either treated or covered the crate faster.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Do you take any online nosework classes or anything? Do you do lots of fast, easy and fun searches too?

I enjoy hearing about your class, but it sounds like a ton of advanced stuff. Is Tyson super-eager and working happily? Is his drive high? If so, fantastic! And ignore my last couple of sentences! 

Almost all of my searches are super simple and quick. I add a few strange things in there now and then, but fast-n-fun are the meat and potatoes of my crews' work. If I am going to add something difficult or work a new skill, I try to roll it out at home so there's no environmental pressure on it until my dogs are solid on the task.

Hard to keep everything in balance. Any videos or photos of the set-ups? They sound really interesting to run!


----------



## cookieface

I haven't taken online classes, but we started NW about two years ago taking two six (eight?)-week classes with an instructor working on NACSW certification. Those were all food-only searches and he gained tons of confidence. We took a break from all classes and started back up last summer. So none of this is really new to him. 

We've done fast, easy, fun searches both in class and at home. I think the instructor really wants to expose us to a variety of things that we could encounter (and maybe some things we won't) so that the dogs are comfortable searching in different locations with different set ups. She also wants us to know what our dogs look like when they've found odor and are following it to the source.

Tyson is eager to work; to me he seems very serious about it. I have no idea if he's high drive. Today was the first time in quite a while that I've noticed his being nervous. But, we did have the neighbors' dog barking at us as we left, he watched the puppy class on break while I unloaded the car, and then the dogs in class were usually barky and whiny. I've also been trying to let him watch the other dogs in class to - I hope - increase his comfort level around them. 

I would say that he's more frantic at class than normal, but he has the same sort of enthusiasm for NW at home -he's just not pulling me along behind him.

Thanks for your comments. I really appreciate your perspective.


----------



## trainingjunkie

You are doing awesome! I had it in my head that you were in an entry class and that was just a big misunderstanding on my part.

I wish your class was in my neck of the woods. I'd be in there playing too!


----------



## cookieface

Class this morning and we did ok: first search (interior set up like a classroom, three paired hides) was great, second search (single semi-paired hide hanging from the ceiling) was good, third search (unpaired ORT-like set up) was ok.

I think I've figured out the method to what seemed like handling madness. I know what I did wrong with the third search and think I know how to fix it, so that's positive.

Tyson watched most of the dogs; I only covered his crate when the dog right next to us was out and nearby. There was one woof when there was a dog a foot or so away from the crate, but otherwise he was good. He's learning odor and how to be around other dogs.


----------



## Springermagic

I am doing an ORT (birch only) in a couple of weeks. Magic has been spot on with practice runs, but I'm afraid he's going to be distracted and I'm going to be nervous and miss any indication he gives me. We're signed up for a workshop in May for tracking, nosework, and barn hunt, so at least I figure it will show me where we are when we go into the workshop. It's not something I thought I would get into much, but I really like it.


----------



## Dogsignalfire

Springermagic said:


> I am doing an ORT (birch only) in a couple of weeks. Magic has been spot on with practice runs, but I'm afraid he's going to be distracted and I'm going to be nervous and miss any indication he gives me. We're signed up for a workshop in May for tracking, nosework, and barn hunt, so at least I figure it will show me where we are when we go into the workshop. It's not something I thought I would get into much, but I really like it.


Me too! Lancer's ORT is on February 19th  Also just for birch LOL. I'm not planning on continuing with him after a NW1, but I just want to make something out of it now that we've already put in the effort for birch. Good luck to you! I'm also afraid of being nervous and maybe affecting his game because of it.

That's awesome that you guys are starting tracking and barn hunt. I wish there were actually trainers for that where I live.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Why will you quit after NW1?


----------



## Dogsignalfire

Yikes, the new nose work trainer we tried out with had very different training methods/ideologies than my last trainer LOL. My guts tell me to trust our last trainer though, since she actually trains detection dogs (both narcotics and bed bug detection) and does search and rescue. This new trainer has only done the sport of nose work. Argh



trainingjunkie said:


> Why will you quit after NW1?


Sorry I just saw this! Just a few reasons mixed together haha. Main reason is that Lancer is not really "my dog", because he's also my dad's dog and likes spending time with my dad more than with me LOL.  So my heart isn't as into him as I would be for my next puppy I'm getting in hopefully just 5 months, which would be living only with me.


----------



## trainingjunkie

Dogsignalfire said:


> Yikes, the new nose work trainer we tried out with had very different training methods/ideologies than my last trainer LOL. My guts tell me to trust our last trainer though, since she actually trains detection dogs (both narcotics and bed bug detection) and does search and rescue. This new trainer has only done the sport of nose work. Argh


Personally, if I had to pick between and instructor who was actively competing in the game of nosework or one who was doing narcotics/real-life work, I would train with the sports instructor. Just me.

How were they different?


----------



## Dogsignalfire

trainingjunkie said:


> Personally, if I had to pick between and instructor who was actively competing in the game of nosework or one who was doing narcotics/real-life work, I would train with the sports instructor. Just me.
> 
> How were they different?


I failed to mention, the first trainer is a NACSW trial judge and certified instructor of course, so it's not that she only does real-life work! She does both.

Main thing that got me was the 2nd trainer wasn't firm about rewarding at source, which is very important based on what I learned. Another aussie in the class found the source, and then ran back to her owner to get the reward LOL. Among a couple other things like just wasn't sensitive about the importance of timing of a toy reward, which is what I'm using with Lancer. She also was apparently unfamiliar with using a ball reward, because she was coming up with how to do it on the spot, I could tell.


----------



## Canyx

Dogsignalfire said:


> I failed to mention, the first trainer is a NACSW trial judge and certified instructor of course, so it's not that she only does real-life work! She does both.
> 
> Main thing that got me was the 2nd trainer wasn't firm about rewarding at source, which is very important based on what I learned. Another aussie in the class found the source, and then ran back to her owner to get the reward LOL. Among a couple other things like not very sensitive about the timing of a toy reward, which is also really important based on what I learned.


Wow, that's really interesting! I've also thought (even before taking the FDSA class) that rewarding at the source was pretty crucial in having the dog stay at the source. I am very curious to hear why this instructor would have the dog take the reward from the owner. From a 'normal training' perspective I think a dog can still learn how to do nosework and FIND odors. But how useful is running-to-owner as an indication?

Is the instructor encouraging owners to do this, or is she just not being picky about where the dog is rewarded?


----------



## Dogsignalfire

Canyx said:


> Wow, that's really interesting! I've also thought (even before taking the FDSA class) that rewarding at the source was pretty crucial in having the dog stay at the source. I am very curious to hear why this instructor would have the dog take the reward from the owner. From a 'normal training' perspective I think a dog can still learn how to do nosework and FIND odors. But how useful is running-to-owner as an indication?
> 
> Is the instructor encouraging owners to do this, or is she just not being picky about where the dog is rewarded?


She eventually corrected, but just not picky. From everything I learned though, rewarding at source is super crucial, at least in the beginning stages of learning any kind of scent work.

"But how useful is running-to-owner as an indication?" The reason is that it creates a situation where the dog will smell the source itself and "know" where it is, but run away from it before the handler knows exactly where it is, especially if the handler missed any tiny indication LOL. It also can eventually teach the dog to alert on just trailing/residual scent, but not where the scent is strongest.


----------



## Canyx

Dogsignalfire said:


> "But how useful is running-to-owner as an indication?" The reason is that it creates a situation where the dog will smell the source itself and "know" where it is, but run away from it before the handler knows exactly where it is, especially if the handler missed any tiny indication LOL. It also can eventually teach the dog to alert on just trailing/residual scent, but not where the scent is strongest.


That's... Not as useful, right? Maybe I'm missing something here  I'd much rather my dog stay at the source and develop a strong indication where the odor is strongest.


----------



## Dogsignalfire

Canyx said:


> That's... Not as useful, right? Maybe I'm missing something here  I'd much rather my dog stay at the source and develop a strong indication where the odor is strongest.


Yeah not very useful at all haha! Sorry I didn't mention that LOL

I'm kind of laughing, thinking back, because it must have been super obvious that I was judging the 2nd trainer the entire session pfffbht T__T


----------



## SnarkHunter66

I had Michaela in a beginning Nosework class (just finding food in boxes and other items) and she did really well. Unfortunately, this was an adult education course attached to a community college and the next level is at an earlier time. I just can't, logistically, get home from work, grab Michaela and get to class in time. There's nobody else within driving distance doing nosework classes either. I'd like to see if Michaela would do the scents. Do you all think it would be possible to do this at home? I don't really care about competing with her, I just want her to have something to do that she likes.


----------



## Canyx

It is absolutely possible to do at home! My dog has never seen a competition ring or a nosework class, and he has a solid understanding of this game. You can get all the supplies yourself, too. I would recommend taking Denise Fenzi's NW1 course if you need a starting point.


----------



## Dogsignalfire

LANCER GOT HIS BIRCH ORT IN 13 SECONDS, YAS YAS YAS. Dang smart good joyous dog who just wants a ball.

And then I come home and check and there aren't any NW1 trials local-ish to me for the rest of the year for now. :clap2: LOL. But there's an L1 Interiors and Exteriors trial in 2 months, so I think we're just gonna do that. JUST DOIN IT.



SnarkHunter66 said:


> I had Michaela in a beginning Nosework class (just finding food in boxes and other items) and she did really well. Unfortunately, this was an adult education course attached to a community college and the next level is at an earlier time. I just can't, logistically, get home from work, grab Michaela and get to class in time. There's nobody else within driving distance doing nosework classes either. I'd like to see if Michaela would do the scents. Do you all think it would be possible to do this at home? I don't really care about competing with her, I just want her to have something to do that she likes.


Definitely! I've also heard good things about Fenzi online courses.


----------



## cookieface

SnarkHunter66 said:


> I had Michaela in a beginning Nosework class (just finding food in boxes and other items) and she did really well. Unfortunately, this was an adult education course attached to a community college and the next level is at an earlier time. I just can't, logistically, get home from work, grab Michaela and get to class in time. There's nobody else within driving distance doing nosework classes either. I'd like to see if Michaela would do the scents. Do you all think it would be possible to do this at home? I don't really care about competing with her, I just want her to have something to do that she likes.


Yes, you absolutely can train on your own. We learned the way it sounds like you started: search various locations and items for food, start pairing the food with odor, and then just use odor. I've heard good things about the Fenzi course, but I think the method is a little different.



Dogsignalfire said:


> LANCER GOT HIS BIRCH ORT IN 13 SECONDS, YAS YAS YAS. Dang smart good joyous dog who just wants a ball.
> 
> And then I come home and check and there aren't any NW1 trials local-ish to me for the rest of the year for now. :clap2: LOL. But there's an L1 Interiors and Exteriors trial in 2 months, so I think we're just gonna do that. JUST DOIN IT.


Congratulations!


----------



## trainingjunkie

Congratulations! That's great!

And I have never taken an in-person nosework class in my life. I trial with 3 dogs and they're all holding their own.


----------



## Dogsignalfire

cookieface said:


> Yes, you absolutely can train on your own. We learned the way it sounds like you started: search various locations and items for food, start pairing the food with odor, and then just use odor. I've heard good things about the Fenzi course, but I think the method is a little different.
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations!





trainingjunkie said:


> Congratulations! That's great!
> 
> And I have never taken an in-person nosework class in my life. I trial with 3 dogs and they're all holding their own.



Thanks guys!! Also trainingjunkie, that's awesome. For me, I had to take at least a few, because I learned ton of training know-how just to begin with. For example, I wouldn't have known the important of rewarding at source/how to teach the dog to stay at source (especially since I started using a ball reward), and nothing about scent theory either unless I knew to google it.


----------



## Canyx

Congratsss!!!!


----------



## Canyx

I have a question. I am training Brae on nosework at a casual level. He is doing really well! But he does this thing where he will pass over the odor and then come back to it. He does not indicate the incorrect container (a stage I struggled briefly with, with Soro). I don't sense a lack of understanding because he WILL indicate correctly in the end with no help from me. But does that indicate an... unsureness? Like, he needs to check out one or two areas first before making the choice? He *should* have a great nose. His mother was high scoring in the tracking portion of IPO (99/100), his father has his FR3 but I don't know the scores, and he has siblings and half siblings actively competing in nosework and doing SAR. I am mostly thinking he will get better the more he plays.

I am not too concerned about it since at the level I'm doing it at, time is not of the essence  But I am curious from a training perspective what might be going on.

But here is a video, and skip to 3:00 to watch the two clips back to back:


----------



## ireth0

I wouldn't worry about it, some dogs like to check everything before committing. He may be wanting to make sure that the container is the strongest source of the odour. 

I wouldn't think of it as being unsure, more like just how he searches.


----------



## dagwall

Can't watch the video because I'm at work but it's fairly normal and called cataloging. They like to check everything out first then go back and alert on the hides. I'm sure there are ways to work through it and get them to alert on first encounter but if you aren't worried about fast times I'd roll with it myself. Jubel likes to catalog sometimes, I'm okay with it as long as he does alert to it usually on the second pass.


----------



## Canyx

Thank you both for your input! Nice to know there is a name for it too


----------



## Bentwings

I must have missed your nose work in the video. You are doing very well from what I saw.

When we did SCH/IPO tracking we taught the dogs to find a sent pad then track step by step. We stamped out a triangular sent pad about 3 feet by 6 feet to start in about 4-6 inch grass. Football field is where I started. We put a single hotdog treat at the point of the long arrow. Then we introduced the dog to the scent pad carefull guiding him to the start point and reward. We only corrected by redirecting if he wanted to go out side of the pad. We then stepped a track heel to toe for about ten feet. Each toe print we added a single half moon hot dog treat. At the end was a small object. Jean patches work great. Pressed down deep in the grass. At first we didn't do any indication. Your dog looks like he would be a very fast learner and with your shown expertise you should be a good judge of how your dog is doing.

We continued this exercise at least a dozen times every day. Noting progress. The goal being to give a search command and the dog begin working where ever you are. He is to begin searching for the scent pad and start the track. As he gets more sure of the track you can add what ever indicator you need, sit,stand down. Bomb dogs were never ever to touch or even get close to the object. These guys we combined the search with area search. Adding an area search early on then all they did was find explosives and such. Later we added tracking. Not many dogs could do this, maybe it was our training but excitable dogs did not work too well. Enough.

I think you are skillful enough already to continue the deep nose tracking. I'd work out to a hundred yards or so with multiple articles. Have different track layers. Then increase the stride to say a shoe length and eventually a full stride. We went to bicycle, boots from two different people we even had a kid with a pogo stick. The bottom line is to create a drive to use his nose very deeply. Once he gets the idea, you add a direction change. Step back a little and make the steps closer together until he gets the idea he needs to change direction. Once he gets to 90 deg. turn you can take longer steps etc. I think you can get the idea. Try not to go to progress too fast. You want the dog to get success and rewards and not make mistakes....yet. Make him absolutely sure of the track. Judging by your obedience work you won't have any trouble with this.

Just keep in mind that we really don't know just how sensitive the dog's nose is. Try and think like the dog. The better you are at this the better you will become at tracking.

This may be a bit dated but it's how I was taught and while we didn't score 100 point track, we never failed a trial.
Byron


----------



## Canyx

Thanks for your input Bentwings! I don't think we will be doing formal tracking, but I appreciate your expertise on this topic.


----------



## petpeeve

I can't comment on nosework, tracking, or SAR. But I can tell you that in the OB Utility scent discrimination exercise, articles are placed approximately 6" apart which doesn't really leave much room between them. Dogs are allowed to "work" the articles for a reasonable amount of time provided they are working continuously, often going over the entire pile numerous times in a methodical fashion, until they choose the correct article, pick it up and return it to the handler. Spending time on selection is somewhat common due to the nature of the layout. No points are deducted for this.

ETA: here is a random video I found on youtube that shows the dog working the articles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKReZs2owIk


----------



## Sandakat

Mesa just started an intro to nosework class. She seems to love it and we had a great time watching her. This is her second class. She's hunting for some steak bits.
https://youtu.be/x0VCUlSwabg.

I hope I can find somewhere within 100 miles of me to get more lessons once this class ends. That's the hard part of rural living. I would love to do more.


----------



## LeoRose

Sandakat said:


> I hope I can find somewhere within 100 miles of me to get more lessons once this class ends. That's the hard part of rural living. I would love to do more.


I really like the online classes at Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. https://fenzidogsportsacademy.com/ The next session starts on December 1st. Registration opens on November 22nd.


----------



## Life With Atlas

Thanks Sandakat for reviving this thread again! Please keep us updated on how Mesa is doing. I'd love to follow along and see more what it's about. 

I think it's something Atlas would like, as he does seem pretty apt to use his nose. (Compared to my previous dog, who I'm not sure knew he had a nose, haha. If Shauni couldn't see you, he definitely couldn't find you!) A few weeks ago on a walk, Atlas was 'tracking' a trail made by a neighbour on her horse who had gone by shortly before we left for our walk. Now, it's cheating a bit in the snow because the tracks are pretty obvious, but he was definitely putting his nose in almost every track and had his head down just boogeying along, at a handful of different points on our walk. Don't get me wrong, I'm not thinking he's going to go and rock nosework, but it put nosework on the list of 'must try' instead of a 'maybe someday'.

Edit: I wish the FDSA Get Focused class was running in December! That is exactly what Atlas I need right now. Our Rally-O instructor (who I believe does follow Denise Fenzi's training methods as she has mentioned it on a couple of occasions) has given me some tips, which I definitely intend to implement. If we still need this course in February, I will definitely be signing up!


----------



## LeoRose

Deb will be doing a Let's Get Focused webinar December 21st. https://fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/self-study/webinars I know it's not the same as the full class, but it's something to think about.


----------



## Sandakat

I'm not very good at doing online classes. The good thing is I found an intermediate nose work class in Reno, which is only about 45 miles from me. They train up to advanced and have a lot of students doing trials, so I'm pretty jazzed about it. Even better, there will only be about 2 weeks between this first class ending and the new one starting so we won't have to redo much stuff.

This week we did searches for treats in the same room we've been in but with the big storage closet open and stuff like a garbage can, a podium, some random chairs, etc in the room to distract the dog. She did pretty well but we had to give her a hint about the treat hidden in the storage room. I'll try to post some videos later.

I just love watching the dogs think about what they're doing and puzzling it out.


----------



## Sandakat

I went to my first intermediate class. This first class was a dogless discussion of scents and hides. I felt like I was auditing a 400 level class. OMG I am so far behind everyone else since Mesa has only searched for treats and never scents. But after the class the instructor spent about half an hour with me introducing her to birch. She was able to very quickly go from finding the birch with a treat to just the birch and getting the reward after. The instructor was very happy with her and feels she will catch up to the others very quickly. 

Of course, when I got home I went online and ordered a box and some scents so I can practice at home. I can see how this could become an obsession. I think this class is going to be a lot of fun.


----------



## Sandakat

Mesa has been doing great with the class. The instructor was great at working her at her own level so that now she's catching up to the more advanced dogs in the class. In fact, she's encouraged me to sign Mesa up for an ORT that's being given in April. I know the ORT isn't a trial, but I'm pretty excited about it.


----------



## Sandakat

Mesa passed her ORT in all 3 odors today. It was a long day with a lot of waiting in the car. Quite a few dogs didn't pass the third odor because they were tired and over it and just lost focus. Mesa started out a little pokey on the 3rd one but she decided it would be fun to knock the boxes around the room and that got her motivated. LOL. She showed me which box had the odor by pounding it with both of her front feet. It wasn't subtle, but it was correct. As we were leaving the test room the judge mentioned that I would have to work on the way she alerts. Yeah, I can't argue with that.


----------



## LeoRose

I found an online titling venue called Cyber K9 that offers scent work titles. They aren't exactly hard, but they are fun.

Lily was the first ever dog to earn a Cyber K9 Novice Scent Detection title. 











About an hour later, Leo became the second dog to earn a Cyber K9 Novice Scent Detection title.











This is the Facebook group that Cyber K9 operates from.


----------



## Sandakat

Very nice! And so much more polite than Mesa's style. LOL


----------



## Sandakat

We did our first AKC scent work trial at the Novice A level on Monday. I am so proud of my girl! She Q'd on interiors, exteriors and containers. She NQ'd buried but half the dogs missed that element. In any case, both the interior and exterior judges complemented us on her focus and thoroughness in her searching. Yay!!


----------



## Sandakat

We had a great weekend trialing in AKC Novice. Mesa Q'd in 10 out of 11 searches. With her one previous trial she now has 4 Q's in Exteriors, 4 Q's in Containers, 3 Q's in Interiors and 2 Q's in Buried. That means she has element titles in 3 out of the 4 elements and we're only one Buried Q short of her Novice title!

Here she is with her ribbons from this weekend. Unfortunately she faulted in Buried because she went around rather than through the starting blocks in the second trial or she might have been High Novice for that trial. Oh well, we still had a great time and I'm so proud of her.


----------



## Sandakat

OMG! NW1 is a LEVEL OF MAGNITUDE harder than AKC Scent Work Novice or even Advanced! This weekend was truly a humbling experience.

I had no idea how large the search areas were going to be or how difficult. The trial was at an elementary school in Livermore, Ca. They were able to use the classrooms and the outdoor areas for the trial. I was hyperventilating half way through the walkthrough. 

I think it was my fault, rather than Mesa's that we blew the Container search. I think she showed me the correct one but I went all the way around the circle of boxes and then came back, but I stopped one short of the correct one.

The Interior was an elementary school classroom. The WHOLE classroom with all of the crap in it. She was simply amazing on the Interior. She worked it out so nicely and showed me where it was in no uncertain terms. That was our only Q.

The exterior was a double row of hedges with grass in between and walls on either side. I had no idea where to even start that one, so I gave her her choice on where to go. She alerted on one of the walls pretty strongly after working that section very intently. It was wrong, and I've been told the hide was on a chair but I don't remember even seeing a chair.

There were 3 vehicles in the vehicle search. The most I've practiced is 2 vehicles right next to each other. These 3 were fairly widely separated. Once again she alerted strongly on one but it was wrong. The judge showed me where it was and she did alert on it when I brought her over to it. I think she was really tired and done by that point, though.

I'm not sorry I went to the trial even though we didn't title. I got to spend a day working with my dog. I learned a lot. And I got to go home with the only Beauceron in the trial!


----------



## Canyx

Good that it was a fun and educational experience! And now that you know how the setups can look, you can train differently 

I really enjoy doing nosework in stores that allow dogs (ex. hardware store, pet store), making sure we are not in the way of shoppers and such.

I also like playing in city parks (again, not in the way of kids or other people) and hide the odors all over the playground. 

It really gets us working in different areas and on a much wider scope.


----------



## Laurelin

I got a wild hair and entered 3/4 dogs in a bunch of nosework things this upcoming weekend and later in the month. ?

I also realized fable has seen nosework twice so this should be interesting. Right now she thinks the game is smash all boxes and yell.


----------



## LeoRose

The girls and I have been concentrating on nosework lately. We are doing classes online with FDSA, and have been taking full advantage of the Teaching Assistants in the student Facebook groups. Today, we did some searches with non-box containers. It was about a million degrees (okay, so the temperature was only 91 F, with 62% humidity, for a heat index of only 103 F), with winds up to 15 MPH, that kept shifting around on us. Both of them did really well, I think. 

One of Lily's searches. 

https://youtu.be/H1tYReqaRuU

And one of Leo's.

https://youtu.be/HHnZQ4BtA7A

I'm hoping to get into some trials next year. Real Life has been getting in the way of dog life lately.

Well, for whatever reason, I can't get them to embed in the post, but just show the links.


----------

