# Puppy won't eat regular food; holds out for treats



## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Our 14-week-old puppy has been with us for @ one month now and she's doing pretty well. Knows to go potty outside, has had only a few accidents in the house, is already starting to learn to obey "Down" and "Sit". As you can see, I've been trying to do some basic training with her, and that means giving her treats when she does well. I also give her treats when she goes into her crate; usually a few Cheerios and, once a day, a Kong toy filled with peanut butter. For her potty and training treats, she gets Cheerios or Zuke's mini dog treats (cut in half). Meanwhile, she is on Hill's Science Diet puppy food, which is what her breeder was feeding her.

I am now feeding her three times a day, and we leave the food out for @ 30 minutes and then take it up. She shows absolutely no interest in the food. She may pick at it a bit but then will just sit there and stare at me. She will eat if I sit by her and encourage her to eat and praise her while she eats but, honestly, I don't have the time to do this at each mealtime. If we leave her alone during mealtimes, she just won't eat.

I'm starting to think she's holding out for her treats. How do you continue to successfully train a dog and reward her with the appropriate treats, but not condition her to stop eating her regular food, as she knows she'll get treats throughout the day? I don't remember this problem with any other dogs I've had; they were all very hearty eaters!

Thanks!


----------



## WonderBreadDots (Jun 26, 2012)

What kind of puppy do you have? A kong filled with peanut butter is pretty rich and filling. Think about if you ate that much peanut butter would you be hungry for your next meal? Instead of treats, try using dog food. Measure out the next meal and grab a handful of food for treats.

Also, stop worrying about the dog not eating her meal, she is holding out. You sitting there is going to create a problem you really don't want. A healthy, hungry dog will not starve itself.


----------



## reroka (Apr 1, 2013)

Also at feeding time, use warm water on her dry food. I have been doing this and my dog is now eathing just fine. 
I also do not give her treats everyday. I only do it when I want to praise her for doing something good.


----------



## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks! That is a good point about the peanut butter. She is a little Cavachon who weighs about seven pounds. I may just stuff some kibbles in the Kong instead and see if that works. I have tried putting water on her food, but that doesn't get her excited either. I've even tried chicken broth (no salt) because that worked with my other dogs when they got older, but she wouldn't even tough that food.

If she is going to the bathroom regularly outside now, should I still give her treats for doing her business outside? I thought I should continue to reinforce with praise, since she does not know to NOT go potty inside (since she's only 14 weeks old), but she will pee at least 4-5 times before she does her No. 2, so that's a treat each time she goes. Are you saying I should take dog food with me instead? And she'll still fall for it? 

This morning, I left her alone and she did not eat. I put the food away after 30 minutes and won't set it out again until lunchtime. We'll see what happens. It may take a couple of days for her to finally really want to eat, but you are right - a healthy, hungry dog will not starve itself!

Thanks again!


----------



## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> .... For her potty and training treats, she gets Cheerios or Zuke's mini dog treats (cut in half). Meanwhile, she is on Hill's Science Diet puppy food, which is what her breeder was feeding her.
> 
> I am now feeding her three times a day, and we leave the food out for @ 30 minutes and then take it up. She shows absolutely no interest in the food. She may pick at it a bit but then will just sit there and stare at me. She will eat if I sit by her and encourage her to eat and praise her while she eats but, honestly, I don't have the time to do this at each mealtime. If we leave her alone during mealtimes, she just won't eat.... I'm starting to think she's holding out for her treats.


Smart puppy :wink:

Please be assured that your puppy won't starve herself. If she gets hungry, she will eat. She just isn't hungry enough.

Instead of using training treats, use her food as a reward. Measure out the total food for the day, put in in a bowl or container, and take your training rewards from that. At mealtimes, also feed her from that measured daily amount. You will be surprised at how much of that amount you end up using as rewards. 

At first, don't be surprised if your pup rejects the reward. After all, you've trained her to only except tasty treats and not real food. 

I suspect that your dog may have a low food drive, so it may be that using food as a reward isn't the best training method. I can't say that for sure because I'm not there to observe your dog's temperament, but I do suspect it.

Please keep reading



LollyWollyDoodle said:


> How do you continue to successfully train a dog and reward her with the appropriate treats, but not condition her to stop eating her regular food, as she knows she'll get treats throughout the day? I don't remember this problem with any other dogs I've had; they were all very hearty eaters!
> 
> Thanks!


Food drive in dogs can range from low to very high. 

A dog with high food drive can easily adapt to new situations - simply by including in that situation the opportunity to eat. That means new training situations as well. As the dog develops more experience doing this, the dog is classically conditioned to adapt to and *even like* new situations. We turn _high food drive_ into *food motivation*.

Training with food rewards isn't easy with a low food drive dog. I do not believe in starving a dog so that we can use food as a reward. It's time for you to develop other motivators for your dog based on her existing drives and temperament. Commonly, we use prey drive and/or social drive to develop motivators for a low food drive dog.

Here is a pretty good article that discusses how your dog's temperament affects how you train her. 

No Two Dogs are the Same


----------



## WonderBreadDots (Jun 26, 2012)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> Are you saying I should take dog food with me instead? And she'll still fall for it?


Wether it is dogs or children, picky eaters are made not born. If you offer only dog food as a treat for going potty, your dog will accept it. You have already conditioned the dog to take a treat after she goes potty. If you have complete confidence that your dog will accept the dog food after she goes potty, she will. 

As far as eating in the house, set the food down, if she doesn't eat it, lift it up and offer it for the next meal. She is just a puppy now, fussing over her not eating amounts that you think she should will creat a lifetime of problems for the dog. 

Think about stray dogs, they are NOT picky eaters, they eat whatever they can find if they can find it. Some strays live years without a human stressing over what it will or won't eat.

On a side note, years ago I saw a show about dog actors. Most of the trainers used regular old dog food as rewards for the dogs hitting their markers/doing their trick. The reason behind it is that the dogs have to maintain their weight. If dog food is a good treat for a dog with that level of obedience/trick training then it is good enough for my dog when learning new things and may be getting a lot of treats in a day.


----------



## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

WonderBread Dots: I *pretty much agree* with you, but I do have a few caveats if I may.



WonderBreadDots said:


> Wether it is dogs or children, picky eaters are made not born. ..



To some extent that is true. However, some dogs do exhibit low food drive - and those dogs do have a tendency to become "picky eaters". We have to take that into account when training. 




WonderBreadDots said:


> Think about stray dogs, they are NOT picky eaters, they eat whatever they can find if they can find it. Some strays live years without a human stressing over what it will or won't eat..


Stray dogs are mostly starving all the time. I don't think it's necessary - or even a good approach - to starve a dog to train it.




WonderBreadDots said:


> ... years ago I saw a show about dog actors. Most of the trainers used regular old dog food as rewards for the dogs hitting their markers/doing their trick. The reason behind it is that the dogs have to maintain their weight. If dog food is a good treat for a dog with that level of obedience/trick training then it is good enough for my dog when learning new things and may be getting a lot of treats in a day.


That's true for dogs that have been worked to have a high food motivation. Not every dog has the food drive for that. A good trainer will work with the drive(s) that the dog has. I know at least two successful 'dog actors/models' that don't get ANY food rewards while working.


----------



## WonderBreadDots (Jun 26, 2012)

Poly said:


> WonderBread Dots: I *pretty much agree* with you, but I do have a few caveats if I may.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm sure the OP will not starve their dog and seems to be a pretty reasonable person, although I do not know them. But the dog is certainly has not gone hungry up until this point.

And I have no doubt that you know two successful dog actors/models, I was talking about the show I saw where they were explaining how they get the featured dogs that work with xxx trainer to do things while the dogs were working.


----------



## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

I disagree to some extent that you can just use dog food for training rewards. There are some situations where you might want to use a "high value" treat to train. Potty training might be one of those situations. This is why you hear the same advice from so many experienced people on this forum "use a high value treat for potty training. Potty training is one of those things that you'd like to train as quickly as possible, so, using a high value treat might just speed that process up, in that it might be more motivating than a regular treat.
Another example of a situation where you might want to use a high value treat is when training recall. For safety reasons, it's important to have a solid recall, and if a high value treat makes it more rewarding for your dog to learn recall quickly, I'd say it's worth it. If you're worried about the dog gaining weight from use of high value treats in certain situations, you can always reduce their portion of dog food for meals that day.

As for actor dogs, they probably are quite well trained to begin with, and have a solid foundation of good behavior (otherwise they wouldn't be dog actors) and thus may be motivated by dog food, or even by being allowed a quick cuddle or a quick toy.


----------



## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

WonderBreadDots said:


> Ok, I'm sure the OP will not starve their dog and seems to be a pretty reasonable person, although I do not know them. But the dog is certainly has not gone hungry up until this point.And I have no doubt that you know two successful dog actors/models, I was talking about the show I saw where they were explaining how they get the featured dogs that work with xxx trainer to do things while the dogs were working.


I'm not sure what this has to do with what I wrote, but you obviously think it does or you wouldn't have quoted me. So maybe I wasn't clear. The points I was making were: 


If (and that's IF) the OPs dog has a low food drive, than that is something that will have to be accommodated in training. 

If a dog does have a low food drive, it won't be motivated by food until it is almost starving - that's what a low food drive means. 

With some dogs, other types of motivation - other then food - are actually more effective.


----------



## BlueDiamond (Mar 18, 2013)

Just want to put in my 2 cents. You can train your dog however you want, but I would suggest using praise a lot more. I have a 4 month old pup that is pretty much house trained, no accidents in almost 2 months I think. When she is going im saying "go potty" and when she is done "good girl!". We do sit and stay and now lay down with her toys. Shes also learning fetch in the process, because ill show her a ball or something, say sit, throw it, say get it, then good girl, and bring it here, and let go... and repeat. She already graduated puppy class, and I dont give as many treats in 1 day as she got in that 1 hour at class. Everytime I praise her, I use much enthusiasm. I think its ok to use treats with a young pup at 1st, but training by praise is ultimately the most rewarding in the long run. Also, about the food, look into a higher quality kibble. My pup started to lose interest in her food, I switched her to Acana, which has pretty much all "real" food in the ingredient list, and shes been excited to eat ever since (1 month ago). Good luck with yours!


----------



## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

BlueDiamond said:


> Just want to put in my 2 cents. You can train your dog however you want, but I would suggest using praise a lot more. I have a 4 month old pup that is pretty much house trained, no accidents in almost 2 months I think. When she is going im saying "go potty" and when she is done "good girl!". We do sit and stay and now lay down with her toys. Shes also learning fetch in the process, because ill show her a ball or something, say sit, throw it, say get it, then good girl, and bring it here, and let go... and repeat. She already graduated puppy class, and I dont give as many treats in 1 day as she got in that 1 hour at class. Everytime I praise her, I use much enthusiasm. I think its ok to use treats with a young pup at 1st, but *training by praise is ultimately the most rewarding in the long run*. Also, about the food, look into a higher quality kibble. My pup started to lose interest in her food, I switched her to Acana, which has pretty much all "real" food in the ingredient list, and shes been excited to eat ever since (1 month ago). Good luck with yours!


Wouldn't that depend on the dog? It seems to me that more independent dogs wouldn't care a bit about praise; whereas, a more people-oriented dog might find praise the best thing in the world. For a more drivey dog, a toy or game of fetch might be the ultimate reinforcer.


----------



## Kobismom (Dec 17, 2012)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> If she is going to the bathroom regularly outside now, should I still give her treats for doing her business outside?


We give intermittent treats for Kobi after taking him outside (we have to walk him to go potty as we live in a 2nd floor condo)... now that he's almost 7 months old, I won't give him treats EVERY time he goes outside, but I will give him verbal praise EVERY time. 

Once every 2 or 3 trips, I'll give him a treat, just to keep him on his toes, but in all honesty, most times he doesn't even care about the treats anymore. He used to do his business and then sit there waiting for a treat. Now, he'll just look up at me, wag his stump-of-a-tail and then continue on his walk.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Someone else said this, but I want to emphasize:
1. The Kong and treats may be sufficiently high calorie that your dog is Not hungry. That, plus the 'bland' taste of dog food might reduce motivation to eat normal meals. [So it may not be taste alone.] However, you Can use dogfood in the Kong.
2. I see no problem reinforcing your "mostly" housetrained dog using dogfood.
3. However, as Doxie wrote, use high value treats for recall


----------



## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

Stop with the treats. You can train with kibble. She'll eat the kibble if she's not getting treats.


----------

