# Scared of trial ring



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Sigh.

So Mia decided to flip out this weekend suddenly after having a great first trial and then running really well on her first gamblers run and Q'd and got 1st place even doing the distance work well. 

Second run was jumpers and halfway through she just stopped and got nervous. The rest of the weekend she was happy outside the ring doing tricks then would shut down when I took off her collar. 

Sigh. Any advice? It's frustrating to say the least. I'm going to go back to rewarding all the time. I really think she was scared of the judge (she flipped out a bit then and tried to run off) who measured her and realized he was in the ring. I think she is also smart enough to realize there's not going to be any cookies in the trial ring and her drive for the sport is just not high enough. My trainer keeps telling me she has the potential to be really really good but that isn't helping and in fact is making me more nervous/pressured. 

We have a couple weeks break to regroup.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Does she display this behavior in class at all? I'm not sure how to fix it if you don't see some signs of it in a setting where you can take your time and work on it slowly. If she only does it at actual trials, I imagine you would need to take her to trials and work on taking off her collar and acting like you're going to go in the ring, and then running back out and doing something fun.

As far as the food thing, not sure what you're doing in classes, but I would leave the food outside the ring or area where you're running her, do a short sequence, then run out and reward her out there. Teach her that food isn't available in the ring, but it's available when she's done working. But you might already be doing something like this and she's still decided that trial days are different.

Sorry to hear she's having issues :-( I can imagine it would be really frustrating. I say I like softer dogs, but this is where they can be really challenging.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

I think I have kind of the same problem with Lo. We trial at the same place as we train, so that's not even it. The first time she runs is usually fine, and the second run even if it's on another day is like pulling teeth. She's not the kind of dog that worries about things, so it's weird. I thought it was that she figured out that there was no cookies in the ring, but I stopped giving them in class a few times and she actually runs better? We took a nice long break and I'm entering her in just one class this coming weekend, so we'll see if she got over her ring woes.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I think that having a ritual helps. I have a dog that used to ring-stress badly. I had to develop a warm-up routine that gets her excited and happy and connected to me. Then, I show her the MONEY! I show her the treats that she will get when we are done. Then, we go and work. As soon as she is done in the ring and has her leash on, she pulls like a freight train back to the crate where her rewards are.

Obviously, this ritual has to be trained and rehearsed over and over again in practice. Also, it is CRITICAL that I control my nerves completely. I also have to handle the same way at trial as I do in practice. And finally, I have to celebrate every single time she goes into competition even if it truly sucked. I treat each finish like a MACH/OTCH run. If the run was wretched, celebrate anyway. You are building up your dog for the next run.

Arousal often over-rides fear. A dog in a low-energy state is going to notice every little scary thing. A higher dog is going to over-look many environmental stressors. Dogs need to be high enough to be resilient while still being in control enough to focus. It takes time to get it right and every dog is different.

All dogs go through this in one form or another.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I've been thinking about this thread...and I have a question to ask Laurelin and now Lo. Do you guys train agility any other place than home or where you take classes (aka home turf?) Laurelin, are there places within an hour's drive you can do drop in agility run thrus?? Lo, I know of places in our area who do and I can message you on FB of them. 

This is a two part post...once I know if you guys have or haven't...I'll go on.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

I haven't trained anywhere else, but I haven't trialed anywhere else either so I didn't thing that'd be the issue. I have done run throughs at that same place, and even brought food in the ring and she still acted the same way she acts at trials, so I know it's not the lack of rewards in the ring. She runs much better in class when the reward is at the end, outside the ring.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> My trainer keeps telling me she has the potential to be really really good but that isn't helping and in fact is making me more nervous/pressured.


... makes me wonder exactly WHO is scared of the trial ring ?

Therein lies your solution. Perhaps.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

LoMD13 said:


> I haven't trained anywhere else, but I haven't trialed anywhere else either so I didn't thing that'd be the issue. I have done run throughs at that same place, and even brought food in the ring and she still acted the same way she acts at trials, so I know it's not the lack of rewards in the ring. She runs much better in class when the reward is at the end, outside the ring.


Okay...you NEED to get out and take your show on the road. If you are planning on really doing agility, you have to step outside of your dog and your comfort zone and go other places to work. A trial is completely different than a run through even at the same facility...the energy is different, the crowd is different, the dogs are different, and you are different. To be a successful and confident agility/obedience/rally dog...they must be confident and comfortable in different settings, with different people, different equipment, etc. How you are going to get that is to go as many different places you can regularly...go to places with rings outside, with dirt floors or barns, with different building set ups, people, and dogs. When you and your dog are able to perform well outside home turf...then you are ready to trial. 

I'll give you this obedience example...Lars can do utility exercises with relatively good success in my backyard and the facility where I teach. (Home Turf) Last night for the first time, we went to a place we haven't done utility run thrus before (but plenty of Novice ob, Open ob, and rally over his career.) He had some difficulty with Go Outs, Signal exercise, and Directed Retrieve....and I expected that because it's a different environment for this new level of obedience for him. So for the next six months...he and I are going to travel all over to different places with different "judges/stewards" and distractions so I can proof him until he is rock solid no matter where we are and who is there. I'll still practice in my backyard and at my school...but most of our practicing and training will be on the road from here on out. 

Anything outside the norm of what the dog is used to in training can throw even the best of dogs sometimes...so you have to consistently train "outside the norm." Does that make sense??


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I agree with the need to take training on the road. I do it religiously. When I have a block of trials coming up, I try to go to 3 different facilities the week of the trial. It's important. It helps a ton. 

If going to new places is tough, there are still things you can do to get your dog ready for the different things that happen at trial. When one of my dogs started popping out of the weaves at trial, we started throwing toys ahead of him at practice. We started putting out plates of food next to the weaves. We started having a person moving around next to the weaves. Adding the toys, people, and food forced my dog to really concentrate on weaving and drown out everything else. This totally fixed the trial weaving. (Two important things to note: My dog really understood weaving and we never added a distraction that caused fear. Ever.) 

When I work signal exercises, I do a quick set in the morning with a plate of raw food somewhere in the room. Sometimes it's in front of him, beside him, behind him, or in between the two of us right on his recall path. When my dog does the whole signal string correctly, he gets sent to the plate. Doing signals in new places is still important, but messing with picture at home helps too. There are lots of ways to keep things fresh and help a dog be resilient in the face of change or stress.

There's a saying, "The Proof is in the Proofing." The more you do to push the envelope for both you and your dog, the greater your confidence will be in competition. 

Anther thing I do: I take classes at different places. I often drive 2 hours each way to take a class. I try to take classes at as many of the places that host trials as possible. Getting the dogs on different equipment, on different flooring, near different dogs, under different lights all really helps. It's a total pain. However, it really helps prepare your dog.

Finally, make sure that your dog is really ready to trial OR that you are truly ready to fail. If you can't handle falling flat, have your dog super-ready to trial. I am going to debut my whippet in agility tomorrow. While she is stellar at home and has been all over the place on other equipment and has competed in rally and obedience, I am reasonably sure that she is NOT ready for the agility ring. However, I am well-aware that I may have entered her too soon and I am completely prepared to accept whatever happens and just make sure that she has fun in the ring. No matter what she does, we will throw a huge party. I am hoping to have a better understanding of whether she is going to stress high or low so I can continue training with that in mind.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Where do you train at? Can you rent an indoor ring for some practice and just do a ton of playing/treating on the course?


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

They would be better off doing ring rentals away from where she trains at a different facility....building confidence in environments where things are different. It doesn't help if a dog is 100% confident in a place where everything stays the same. If they had no ambition to trial in agility and if working in class was enough...that would be fine. 

If the ambition is to trial and do well...they need to regularly get their dogs comfortable in different environments with different stimuli. That takes commitment. Myself, I'm away training with the boys at classes and drop ins for both agility and obedience anywhere from 2 to 4 times a week (depending on life in general.) Even if they went someplace different 1 - 2 times a week that would help. But to never go anywhere outside of a weekly class at the home training facility...they are going to have a very hard time transitioning to trialing (even at their home facility.)

And I'm adding this...people who do agility seriously drag their puppies along to agility trials the entire time they are growing up. At any given agility trial I go to...there are a bunch of puppies milling around so they can acclimate themselves to the environment. Ocean started hitting trials when he was four months old and went to every trial Lars went to. He had been attending trials for over a year before he finally got to play himself. For him to walk into a busy agility venue and run...it was nothing for him. So, with Lola and Mia, maybe they need to just attend trials and not run for a good span of time so they are comfortable in the chaos that is an agility trial. Play outside the ring, feed them really great treats, play with the practice jump and make the trial setting a lot of fun. Agility can be a very intense environment...and if a dog isn't used to that, they could easily shut down or go the other direction and be way over stimulated. It takes time and effort to get them used to it.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

MrsBoats said:


> They would be better off doing ring rentals away from where she trains at a different facility....building confidence in environments where things are different. It doesn't help if a dog is 100% confident in a place where everything stays the same. If they had no ambition to trial in agility and if working in class was enough...that would be fine.
> 
> If the ambition is to trial and do well...they need to regularly get their dogs comfortable in different environment with different stimuli. That takes commitment. Myself, I'm away training with the boys at classes and drop ins for both agility and obedience anywhere from 2 to 4 times a week (depending on life in general.) Even if they went someplace different 1 - 2 times a week that would help. But to never go anywhere outside of a weekly class at the home training facility...they are going to have a very hard time transitioning to trialing (even at their home facility.)


I definitely meant to rent a ring away from where they train. I wasn't sure if they were already training at an indoor ring though, if they could travel to ANOTHER.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I've been to the facility where Lo has been training and had that trial...it is a indoor facility with rubber mat flooring. I'm certain that place is completely different during a class of less than 10 dogs versus a trial with 330 runs going through it. 

I have no idea what sort of place Laurelin is working with. I'm assuming it's probably the same.

And to edit again...this goes for any dog sport - competitive obedience, rally, agility, freestyle....whatever. If you are planning on trialing and want to do well, you have to get out to as many places as possible so your dog is completely okay with different environments and stimuli in and around the ring. You cannot short cut that and do well.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

For those of you guys who are following this thread and are looking for places/clubs to get your dogs to so you can proof your agility training, Clean Run has a search page for just that. 

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=clubs.search


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

There's not really anywhere to practice around here. There's not even a place with an indoor ring. :/


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

How far are you willing to travel?? The places I go are at least 45 minutes one way...sometimes it's over an hour one way that I drive. If I wasn't willing to drive more than 30 minutes one way...I would be screwed because there's only one place in RI that does indoor agility - that's where I teach.

Let's put this same issue in different terms...if you had a dog that never left someone's back yard before (where it was comfortable and felt safe) and then put it with it's owner in Times Square...how do you think that dog is going to react? How would you fix the dog's fearful reaction to the new stimuli and environment? Or this...put 250 people and 250 dogs in that same dog's backyard that they have never met before...what do you think is going to happen? You have to consider the agility ring in these same terms...


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> There's not really anywhere to practice around here. There's not even a place with an indoor ring. :/


Couple of things I can suggest....since there aren't many places to "practice" at....perhaps going to trials that you aren't entered in to begin with. If you have friends trialing, you can set up with them. Spend a lot of time walking around the trial environment. Also, I don't know what venues you are competing in, but some venues have FEO entries (For exhibition only). You go in, maybe do a start line stay and take an obstacle or a jump or two, then out you go to have a huge party. In fact, my trainer suggests that for your first couple of times, you just go in do just that. The FEO fees are the same, but often (again depending on the venue) you can actually run with a leash. My friend did that in CPE with his dog for his first couple of trials. Also if you know that you are FEO, it takes some of the nervousness out of you too, especially if you are new to trialing.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

> So Mia decided to flip out this weekend suddenly after having a great first trial and then running really well on her first gamblers run and Q'd and got 1st place even doing the distance work well.
> 
> Second run was jumpers and halfway through she just stopped and got nervous.


 Could be any number of reasons why, of course, but if the drop off was sudden my first concern would be to rule out soreness / injury. Second concern would be establishing if the dog has the actual (physical and mental) conditioning and STAMINA to successfully run more than once per day or per weekend.




> The rest of the weekend she was happy outside the ring doing tricks then would shut down when I took off her collar.


Third, I would proof the heck out of removing the collar. Just like when teaching tricks etc split it up into it's smallest segments, determine the weakest link, work on THAT alone until it's rock solid under ALL circumstances, and have that become a predictor for really GOOD things about to happen. I've seen this same problem happen a lot in Open obedience, where the dog enters the ring, immediately gets unleashed before the first exercise even begins, and subsequently shuts down right then because leash off has become a predictor to upcoming stress. So, I'd concentrate on that segment, and ensure it remains super-positive throughout.




> I really think she was scared of the judge (she flipped out a bit then and tried to run off) who measured her and realized he was in the ring.


 Fourth, this could possibly be the main root cause of her downfall. I'd get a hold of a wicket, somehow, and then proof the heck out of measuring, then measuring by strangers too.



Even in practice, try to replicate the EXACT trial environment if possible. ie: judge's or steward's table, judges following you in very close proximity clipboard in hand, pseudo-warmups then brief recrating before go time, ring gates balloons and flowers, people clapping from an adjoining ring, etc etc. whatever elements you'd find at an actual trial that typically aren't present during practice.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks guys- we'll give it a try! I think just renting a ring in another venue or taking another class wouldn't help as it's really just the hustle and bustle of the trial (and loudness) I think she has trouble with. BUT we can definitely do run throughs at different venues, I think that will help a lot with her confidence.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Yeah we're working on stamina and conditioning. We've slacked a lot lately. Part of it is hard since I work until 5 and all the practices I know of save our classes is way too far to drive home then drive all the way across town for an hour... I can't get there in time. Other than my club the others all only seem to practice on weekdays and across town. So we do what we can. It would be nice if I didn't have to work lol.

She's doing a lot of sniffing/distracted behaviors. She decided to alarm bark at ring crew, that kind of thing. Summer is just lacking stamina and I think she needs to just run one a day for now. She's older and it sucks to really see proof that yes.... my dog is a senior now.  

The real problem is that Summer is bombproof and Mia is very very very sensitive to everything. She notices everything and she is a 'what's in it for me' dog on top of that. Bad experiences stick forever and are hard to overcome. (In any situation). And she's also one to know if she's not going to get rewarded or not. I think she's realizing in the ring I'm not going to give her a cookie.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Oh and about stamina, my dogs will not settle in their crates at a trial. They're awake and Summer barks 24/7 at dogs passing by. I've tried leaving them in the car and also covering crates, etc, it's just too busy for them. I think a lot of Summer's stamina issues are her being worn down after two days of barking all day long. By the afternoons, she's exhausted. She also barks all class long and I've had minimum luck changing that.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> Oh and about stamina, my dogs will not settle in their crates at a trial. They're awake and Summer barks 24/7 at dogs passing by. I've tried leaving them in the car and also covering crates, etc, it's just too busy for them. I think a lot of Summer's stamina issues are her being worn down after two days of barking all day long. By the afternoons, she's exhausted. She also barks all class long and I've had minimum luck changing that.


I'm imagining you've tried kongs, bully sticks, etc during these times?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Yep. Even brought out the duck feet. Neither will chew on anything.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> Yep. Even brought out the duck feet. Neither will chew on anything.


Have you ever used rescue remedy? I wouldn't recommend trying it for the first time at a trial you're entered in, but I train/work with a gal that has a very chatty cattle dog/rat terrier mix and she has started using rescue remedy with great effects to calm him a little and quiet him down in stimulating environments like agility training, demos, and trials. He turns on great in the ring still and works fantastically, just calms down a little more in his crate. Might be worth a try if you have the time/money to take them to a trial you're not entered in and crate them and give them both some RR and monitor it's effects on them, take them out and work them a little on practice jumps and around the ring, etc. Or do a FEO entry to see how they act with RR in their system actually in the ring in that setting?

Just a thought! I've never really had to deal with these issues, personally.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

One thing that has helped Lo is that we don't have to get there SO so early anymore. When we were still getting measurements and had to be there at 7 am it was brutal. Yesterday I got there around 2 and we were finished by 5:30.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Have a couple of friends who run "soft dogs". Both of them have been very successful with their dogs. My one friend has put MACHS and multiple CATChs on all three of her soft dogs. My other friend has recently put a CATCh on her soft dog. Here is a wonderful article written by Susan Garrett: http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2012/03/building-effective-triggers-into-your-dog-training/ Hope this helps you.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

How about this: At practice, have a bunch of people scattered randomly around the ring. They don't have to do anything, just stand there and watch the dog, just like the judge would do. Lots of cookies for successfully ignoring the onlookers. Later you can ramp-up the distraction by having those people make noise or move.


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