# confused- Avoderm



## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Ok, so Avoderm. This food is supposed to be Avocado based. I guess to them the Avocado is the best fruit in the world or something. Alright whatever. BUT, everything I've looked up about the Avocado says it is TOXIC to dogs. Including skin, plant, seeds, and flesh. Everything says it contains Persin which can damage the heart, tissue, etc. heres a quote from a site...

Avocados (fruit, pit, and plant) are toxic to dogs. Avocados contain a toxic component called persin, which can damage heart, lung and other tissue in many animals. They are high in fat and can trigger stomach upset, vomiting and even pancreatitis. Symptoms of toxicity include difficulty breathing, abdominal enlargement, abnormal fluid accumulations in the chest, abdomen and sac around the heart. The amount that needs to be ingested to cause signs is unknown. The effects on dogs and cats are not completely understood. GI signs are commonly seen and should be treated symptomatically. In addition, the animal should be monitored closely for other clinical signs related to the cardiovascular system. (This information comes from veterinarians, the American Veterinary Medicine Association, and the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center.) 

so this is what confuses me. how can it be toxic, but yet have a dog food that raves about how wonderful it is and have a food that is based around the fruit. im lost....


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## Aggie (Mar 13, 2008)

That would definitely make me leery.

My guess is Persin is an enzyme/protein which is denatured when heated to X temperature, and so is rendered harmless in these foods.

It still doesn't sit well with me.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

That is very confusing. Can you go to the website and email them that question. I would like to hear what their reply would be to that. I didn't know avocado's were toxic to dogs.


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## cascabel (Sep 25, 2007)

I just linked to this in another post...but it seems relevant so I will post it again: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=dog_food_reviews

Here's the excerpt: _"The only parts of an avocado that are toxic are the wood, bark, leaves, pit and skin - in other words, you should not give your dog unsupervised access to areas where avocado trees grow, or let him ingest any of their materials even when supervised, but the flesh of the avocado fruit, and its oil, are fine as long as an individual is not allergic or sensitive"_


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

cascabel said:


> I just linked to this in another post...but it seems relevant so I will post it again: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=dog_food_reviews
> 
> Here's the excerpt: _"The only parts of an avocado that are toxic are the wood, bark, leaves, pit and skin - in other words, you should not give your dog unsupervised access to areas where avocado trees grow, or let him ingest any of their materials even when supervised, but the flesh of the avocado fruit, and its oil, are fine as long as an individual is not allergic or sensitive"_


hmmm ive found countless links that dont agree with that though. here are some quotes 

Avocados: The fruit, pit and plant are all toxic. They can cause difficulty breathing and fluid accumulation in the chest, abdomen and heart 

24. Avocado (All parts of the avocado and avocado tree are toxic to dogs.)

Avocado: Avocadoes are high in fat content and can trigger an upset stomach, vomiting or even pancreatitis. Avocado contains a toxic element called persin, which can damage heart, lung and other tissue in many animals. 

Avocado
The avocado is very dangerous to all animals – the fruit, leaves, stem, and pit are all considered toxic parts of the plant. The toxic substance in the Avocado is called persin, which is a fatty acid derivative. Although poisonous to both cats and dogs, this plant is particularly deadly to birds. This is also a proven poison to various other types of animals including: goats, sheep, horses, cattle, rabbits and even fish! Ingestion of the avocado plant can lead to cardiovascular problems, and often results in death. This plant is highly toxic, and in animals symptoms can range vomiting, diarrhea, respiratory distress, generalized congestion, fluid accumulation around the heart, and heart failure. The avocado is deadly and should not be fed to any pet under any circumstances.


those are just some quotes. and LMH, i have contacted them, right before i made this post. i have yet to hear back.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Many things can be toxic if consumed in the wrong amounts. I'll be interested in seeing the response you get from the manufacturer as I've also seen this sort of discussion over another product I've had experience with; Bug Off GARLIC for dogs which is intended to be fed as a supplement year round for bug control.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

still waiting for a response from them... not very happy right now. ive contacted many other food companies that responded right away....


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe we should all start bombarding them with the same question-hehe


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## JustinPortland (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm glad that I found this old thread! My dog (recently adopted from a shelter) started vomiting occasionally and having diarrhea on the third morning we had him home. He was with us for half of the day we got him and one full day and in that time we had the small bag of food the shelter gave us, but we bought Avoderm Adult Chicken Meal & Brown Rice Formula (with the avocado crap in it). The fact that it was such a high end food with good reviews seemed like a positive thing. After he got sick he stopped eating for a day and then resumed and the symptoms started again. 

He is heading to the vet now and I feel pretty certain it is the whole avocado thing. Whether he is particularly "sensitive" to the avocado fruit or whether it really is toxic to all dogs doesn't matter; we will never feed him avocado or Avoderm again. Very displeased.


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## doginthedesert (Jun 18, 2010)

Perhaps I can clarify. The skin and the pit contain the toxin persin (it is also toxic to rats and many other animals). The green portion of the flesh that is closer to the skin also has it. The more yellow/beige part is perfectly safe. I often use avacado to fatten up older sick rats. It is perfectly safe as long as you cut away the skin and ALL of the green flesh. I imagine that in this food they only use the inner flesh.

So yes, the fruit is toxic, just not the entire thing. In fact, when cutting away the toxic part you loose a lot of the fruit.

Edited to add: Avacado has a lot of good properties, but it is quite high in fat. In proper amounts, as part of another food, as long as it was separated from the pit/skin properly I would be happy to see it with other ingredients as part of a balanced food. I am skeptical that any manufacturer would discard enough of the flesh to make me comfortable though.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Obviously you can do what you want and have your own opinion about this issue, but I think Breeder's Choice..the company that makes Avoderm..is a pretty good company. They've been around a long time, and so has Avoderm. I've fed it with no problems...but then, I also use Garlic tabs from Springtime, Inc. for flea control, too LOL. Anyway, I don't see how Breeder's Choice could keep selling a product if it was poisonous to dogs. I think they would've been called out for it waaayy before now. My opinion is that it's a pretty decent grain-inclusive food that includes avocado in its ingredients. It's pretty affordable, too.


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## JustinPortland (Aug 12, 2010)

My dog is all better now. After the vet visit we switched his food to another brand/content and he has no vomiting or diarrhea. Everything cleared up after we got him off Avoderm. The vet agrees that the symptoms were too closely linked to the food for it to have been something else and there was nothing else wrong with him that would have caused it. 

The food we switched him to is Great Life Wild Salmon (though I'm not sure if it is distributed anywhere other than the western states). When looking at the ingredient lists for the two there are a lot of similarities. Both foods have: Brown Rice, Oatmeal, and Alfalfa Meal. The Avoderm also has chicken in it, but I know that isn't an issue for him. Also Avoderm has Herring meal while the main ingredient in the new food is Salmon. Other than that Avoderm also has Flax seed, Avocado meal & Oil as things which are not in the new food. 

The vitamin lists are almost identical with a very large list in each (but I think it's pretty safe to rule out that a vitamin causes him to vomit and get diarrhea anyway)

Even the "Guaranteed Analysis" breakdown is almost identical between the two foods 
Avoderm/New food: Crude Protein 23%/22%, Crude Fat 13%/13%, Crude Fiber 4%/4%, Moisture 10%/10% ( and then Avoderm lists Omega-6 and Omega-3 in small percentages and the new food doesn't list those but lists calories per pound. 

So he eats Avoderm and he is sick with vomiting and diarrhea. He gets off Avoderm to a similar food with some shared ingredients, nearly identical analysis, but no avocado and he is all better. This is what happened. 

I understand that many people feed avoderm or avocados to their dogs and experience no negative effects. I think what people should consider though is that something can be toxic and only cause negative "reactions" in a percentage of the species (for instance poison ivy is toxic to humans but roughly 15% of people such as myself have no reaction). It seems perfectly reasonable that many dogs may not have negative reactions to to low or moderate ingestion. However my dog clearly exhibited the symptoms of a negative reaction to avocados as explicitly listed on the website of the ASPCA "The leaves, *fruit*, seeds and bark of avocados contain Persin, which can cause vomiting and diarrhea in dogs" --http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-control/people-foods.html (emphasis mine)

And why do I emphasize the "fruit" part because the ASPCA clearly says that the fruit is toxic to dogs and Avoderm on their own site has a very absurd looking statement which seems to acknowledge that the ASPCA identifies the fruit as toxic and then in the same sentence Avoderm claims the fruit is an exception and says "Concern has been expressed by the ASPCA about the consumption of the leaves, fruit, bark, and stems from the avocado tree, with the exception of the avocado fruit which is used for the oil and meal; " --http://www.avodermnatural.com/About/why_avocados.htm

What?????

The fruit is toxic, with the exception of the fruit????

My position: the fruit is toxic (and the use of it in the food seems like the obvious candidate for making my dog sick especially since his symptoms matched the listed ones recognized by the ASPCA which identifies all parts of the avocado as toxic and subsided when he stopped eating Avocado based food)

At the very least it is fair to say that there is dispute over whether the fruit is toxic and people may desire to ere on the side of caution. Based on my own dog's reactions and the ASPCA (not to mention the absurd sentence from Avoderm) I would advise against avocado consumption.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

It could very well be the avocado that made your dog sick, but it could've been something else in the food or a combination of things. Like I said before, my dogs did fine on Avoderm when I fed it for awhile. I would definitely consider feeding it again. The company has been around for quite awhile and, as far as I know, lots of dogs eat Avoderm without any problem. No one dog food works for every dog, and it looks like it didn't work for your dog. But, that doesn't mean it isn't a decent food and won't work for others. Good luck!


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