# Tips for Training a dog who is not "food" motivated



## AppyGirl (Feb 22, 2008)

We've registered Wiley for obedience classes and I can't wait to start them! I called around to a lot of places and liked the sound of the one we chose the best. They have a class specifically aimed towards rescued and adult dogs to learn the basics and it also teaches the owners how to effectively communicate with their dogs and uses positive reinforcement it is also much smaller class size then thier regular obedience classes. I also talked to the trainer about how Wiley is not food motivated and is very very nervous around men and they are willing to work with us on those things. 

Unfortunatly, we have to wait until May 7th for the next class to start. In the mean time I would like to work with Wiley on some of the more basic stuff and Wiley is not food or toy motivated at all. He loves being pet and I've used that for a reward alot and was able to teach him "off" and to go to his "bed" using that as reinforcement and were slowly making process with "down" but I cannot for the life of me figure out "sit". He very rarely ever sits on his own he is either standing or goes straight to lying down and I don't know how to make him sit without having a food treat to hold over their head. Even the stuff like real chicken and turkey meat that he really likes isn't enough to make him sit he follows it has far as he can with his head a couple times then he just turns around and walks away and he's the same way with his toys he likes to play with them but he doesn't care enough to work for them. 

Any tips on how to teach sit? I don't want to start shoving his bum down and I'm not really sure how else to go about it but if we knew sit it would be alot easier to start teaching other things.

Thanks in advance

Danielle


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## mydogspot (Mar 25, 2008)

AppyGirl said:


> We've registered Wiley for obedience classes and I can't wait to start them! I called around to a lot of places and liked the sound of the one we chose the best. They have a class specifically aimed towards rescued and adult dogs to learn the basics and it also teaches the owners how to effectively communicate with their dogs and uses positive reinforcement it is also much smaller class size then thier regular obedience classes. I also talked to the trainer about how Wiley is not food motivated and is very very nervous around men and they are willing to work with us on those things.
> 
> Unfortunatly, we have to wait until May 7th for the next class to start. In the mean time I would like to work with Wiley on some of the more basic stuff and Wiley is not food or toy motivated at all. He loves being pet and I've used that for a reward alot and was able to teach him "off" and to go to his "bed" using that as reinforcement and were slowly making process with "down" but I cannot for the life of me figure out "sit". He very rarely ever sits on his own he is either standing or goes straight to lying down and I don't know how to make him sit without having a food treat to hold over their head. Even the stuff like real chicken and turkey meat that he really likes isn't enough to make him sit he follows it has far as he can with his head a couple times then he just turns around and walks away and he's the same way with his toys he likes to play with them but he doesn't care enough to work for them.
> 
> ...


I would keep working to find something edible that he will work for, something that he absolutly loves but ONLY gets during training. Also, think about getting him some interesting NEW toys that ONLY come out during training time. That will increase his desire to investigate them and therefore follow them as a lure.

You're right not to push his butt down as this often just causes opposition reflex (the urge to resist against the push), learning slows considerable during OR. What you can do instead is CAPTURE the sit with a sound "click" or "yes" and then follow with what he loves, be it that new toy or very specail treat. CAPTURING is a great tool for dogs that are difficult to lure.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Where I would start is at his daily meal. If you feed through a bowl, put the bowl away, all his meals will be fed to him by hand. Then, grab a clicker and do a very simple exercise...simply click, and put a piece of kibble in his mouth. You want to associate the click with a reward, that's all you're doing, but if you do this enough he may come to learn _hey, this food is not so bad after all. _

He has to be hungry to do this, so it may mean skipping a meal for better results at the next meal. You may also need to act excitedly for him taking the food. It's a lot of work, but I have had some success with non food motivated dogs using this simple technique.


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## AppyGirl (Feb 22, 2008)

mydogspot said:


> What you can do instead is CAPTURE the sit with a sound "click" or "yes" and then follow with what he loves, be it that new toy or very specail treat. CAPTURING is a great tool for dogs that are difficult to lure.


I've been using capture to teach "down" but he never just sits. Even when he does lay down he just drops he doesn't sit first.


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## mydogspot (Mar 25, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Where I would start is at his daily meal. If you feed through a bowl, put the bowl away, all his meals will be fed to him by hand. Then, grab a clicker and do a very simple exercise...simply click, and put a piece of kibble in his mouth. You want to associate the click with a reward, that's all you're doing, but if you do this enough he may come to learn _hey, this food is not so bad after all. _
> 
> He has to be hungry to do this, so it may mean skipping a meal for better results at the next meal. You may also need to act excitedly for him taking the food. It's a lot of work, but I have had some success with non food motivated dogs using this simple technique.


Good point. I actually take one week of every puppy class and ask that my owners feed only by hand and for behaviors..just so they can see how quickly even non-foody dogs respond.
I do this with every new rescue that comes into my home as well. It's not only great for training but for bonding and leadership (NILIF principle) as well.

My demo dog Sophie, who also happens to be my best girlfriend, was the only dog that I actually got as an 8 week old pup. I fed her the first 5-10 minutes of each meal by hand for behaviors and by 12 weeks, her behavior rep. was amazing.



AppyGirl said:


> I've been using capture to teach "down" but he never just sits. Even when he does lay down he just drops he doesn't sit first.



You can still capture the SIT when he lays down by carefully shuffling into him (without stepping on him of course). Most dogs will come back into a sit in order to get out of the way of your feet, when he does, mark and reward.


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## AppyGirl (Feb 22, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Where I would start is at his daily meal. If you feed through a bowl, put the bowl away, all his meals will be fed to him by hand. Then, grab a clicker and do a very simple exercise...simply click, and put a piece of kibble in his mouth. You want to associate the click with a reward, that's all you're doing, but if you do this enough he may come to learn _hey, this food is not so bad after all. _
> 
> He has to be hungry to do this, so it may mean skipping a meal for better results at the next meal. You may also need to act excitedly for him taking the food. It's a lot of work, but I have had some success with non food motivated dogs using this simple technique.


I would like to try this but I have a concern. We got Wiley just over a week ago and he is so so skinny like I can easily count his ribs skinny and we're trying to fatten him up. Not being food motivated he doesn't have a whole lot of interest in his kibble so we've been mixing in canned food and ground turkey to get him to eat it.

It may turn him into a picky eater but I've been more focused on getting him to put on some weight and figured I would worry about the picky eating later. 

Should I be so concerned with him putting on weight?? Is it okay to skip a meal even though he is so skinny to get him hungry enough to eat from my hand?



mydogspot said:


> You can still capture the SIT when he lays down by carefully shuffling into him (without stepping on him of course). Most dogs will come back into a sit in order to get out of the way of your feet, when he does, mark and reward.


Thanks so much for this tip. It had never occured to me to shuffle him back into a sit. I'm going to try this tonight thanks again!

Danielle


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

AppyGirl said:


> Should I be so concerned with him putting on weight?? Is it okay to skip a meal even though he is so skinny to get him hungry enough to eat from my hand?


That's certainly a question I'd ask your vet. In most cases I'd say no, it's not a worry, but your vet knows your dog better than I can through a computer screen. But that's okay, you can still try the technique, and perhaps as MDS suggested, do this for five minutes with each meal to start. Go ahead, get your hands dirty, it's all part of the fun!


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## AppyGirl (Feb 22, 2008)

Thanks again you guys for all your suggestions. I'm going to try these out tonight and let you know how it works.

You've been so helpful I really appreciate it. I've never had a dog that wasn't completely obsessed with food before so I'm kind of at a loss for what to do


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

There are all kinds of different ways to _teach_ basic commands.

But first you've got to find some type of motivation.

My first thought is, don't feed Wiley dinner on class nights or before training. And two, try some really tasty treats. On the whole, moist treats are usually the best, with freeze dried liver as an exception. I've yet to meet a dog that wont' do back flips for it  Cut up hot dogs, roll over, freeze dried liver, Zukes and Buddy Biscuits are some good ones, don't know if they're available to you.

Sometimes making your voice slightly higher pitched and extremely excited is enough to get them back to figureing out what you want them to do. "Ooooh, look what I have!! Come on Wiley boy, you can do it!!" If that doesn't cut it, have him on leash, and when he looses interest, run with him to the other side of the room, get him up and happy again, than start over.

You have to make it worth his while to spend time thinking about what you want, AND actually doing it. It may take some experiementing, but you'll find his motivation.


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