# Supplementing, Topping, or Adding to Kibble



## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Those of you who add to, supplement or "top" mostly kibble diets, what do you use? Why? And how often?

I've seen on here many times about how people add things to their dogs kibble meals, like canned food or yogurt or pumkpin etc. and was just wondering what everyone's individual reasons were for adding things?


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## gloria66 (May 11, 2011)

I add a tablespoon of canned pumpkin (not the pie filling) twice a day to my dog's food. Pumpkin seems to help him have firmer stools.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't add anything to my current dogs' kibble. If I give them something extra I give it separately. But my first dog was SO picky, so that's why we added stuff to her meals.


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## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hi...I add 1 Cup of Boneless Chicken Thighs or Breasts simmered in Chicken Broth w/ 1/2 Cup of Veggies (mostly carrots, stringbeans or peas) ---- I switch off from the chicken once in awhile to 1 Cup of Beef simmered in Beef Broth & twice a week I add Sweet Potato & once in awhile I give him a little Beef Liver. I mix this with his Kibble, I feed Earthborn Kibble.


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## Masterjedi688 (Apr 27, 2009)

My dog gets canned food added to his kibble because he won't eat his food dry. That is my fault for getting him used to eating other things on top of his food.


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## Navman (Oct 4, 2010)

Gosh! Makes me shudder reading some of the comments. Depending on your belief’s Dogs were created or evolved as a carnivorous animal just like wolves, lions, tigers e.t.c. Carnivorous means meat eating full stop! Just imagine if you worked at a zoo, would you be feeding the wolves and lions pumpkin, rice e.t.c? 

Secondly: carnivorous animals have been built to eat meat raw where all the nutrients are present in the natural form with the required biochemicals that will help absorb everything that the piece of meat has to offer. You cook it and you will firstly dissolve and remove most of the good stuff, whats remaining will not have the bio-availability for the digestive system to recognise the various nutrients, proteins e.t.c.

What is shit? its digestive waste. You want to know why dogs shit huge loads, runny pools, big fat turds? Because they are fed food that cannot be recognised, has very little value and hence most of it is converted into big smelly poo! Dogs on prey model based diet have very little dry crumbly shit that does not smell. My 65kg gets fed around 2 – 3 kilos as he is still young and growing, his shit will be half my palm, get it? Food large enough as a whole chicken when eaten raw only produces little shit, as its good food. Food such as high carb diet is mostly shit and hence the big poo’s.

Do your furry family member a favour and at the least do some reading such as this:

www.rawessentials.co.nz 

http://rawfed.com/myths/ 

So, if you are going to stick to kibbles then at least use one that has very high meat proteins in it like Origen, and supplement it with raw meat. Best to have the raw meat stored in the freezer for 24 hours.

Even I used to feed kibbles until I researched a bit and found the above. Convert for the love of you pooch.
Gosh! Makes me shudder reading some of the comments. Depending on your belief’s Dogs were created or evolved as a carnivorous animal just like wolves, lions, tigers e.t.c. Carnivorous means meat eating full stop! Just imagine if you worked at a zoo, would you be feeding the wolves and lions pumpin? 

Secondly: carnivorous animals have been built to eat meat raw where all the nutrients are present in the natural form with the required biochemicals that will help absorb everything that the piece of meat has to offer. You cook it and you will firstly dissolve and remove most of the good stuff, whats remaining will not have the bio-availability for the digestive system to recognise the various nutrients, proteins e.t.c.

What is shit? its digestive waste. You want to know why dogs shit huge loads, runny pools, big fat turds? Because they are fed food that cannot be recognised, has very little value and hence most of it is converted into big smelly poo! Dogs on prey model based diet have very little dry crumbly shit that does not smell. My 65kg gets fed around 2 – 3 kilos as he is still young and growing, his shit will be half my palm, get it? Food large enough as a whole chicken when eaten raw only produces little shit, as its good food. Food such as high carb diet is mostly shit and hence the big poo’s.

Do your furry family member a favour and at the least do some reading such as this:
www.rawessentials.co.nz 

http://rawfed.com/myths/ 

So, if you are going to stick to kibbles then at least use one that has very high meat proteins in it like Origen, and supplement it with raw meat. Best to have the raw meat stored in the freezer for 24 hours.

Even I used to feed kibbles until I researched a bit and found the above. Convert for the love of you pooch.

Forgot to mention that my dog has never been bathed other than swims, he has no doggy odour, his long coat is shiny as, he has no discharges from his eyes or ears (never had to clean his ear) he has never had to be taken to a vet with any disorder (touch wood). 

Peace
Navman


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I add boiled chicken or beef liver once a week. I add fresh blanched green beans once a week for a change. I add boiled chicken breast or chicken legs a couple times a week. I add chicken gizzards once every two weeks for a change. I sometimes add tuna fish or pumpkin or yogurt or slightly boiled carrots. I also add vitamin E and fish oil.

My dogs have been eating 4Health and TOTW. They are now eating Blue Buffalo. 

Eddee is really picky and must have canned food for his morning meal. I have been giving him Purina Pro Plan canned. It was rated 4 stars on the dogfoodadvisor. 

Reason: My dogs are very picky and rightfully so ... I just admittedly like spoiling them ... they live such short lives I want to make it as pleasant as possible for them. 

EDIT: To some ... it may not have much nutritional value as it has been cooked ... but my dogs eat the best food I can afford ... and I believe they are getting proper nutrition this way ... and they think the toppings are delicious! Lol!


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## Nokoa (Dec 11, 2011)

We had to put Skittles, our beagle, on a liver cleanse about five years ago. He and my other dog liked the diet so much we kept it with a couple of alterations to keep the cost down, and skittles seems to have gotten younger every year since! The diet was a mix of canned veggies, white rice, and cod. We substituted beef or lamb canned dog food for the cod and added a little dry kibble for his teeth. Both our dogs love this diet and are very healthy. We keep variety in the mix by changing which kind of canned veggies they get and using either beef or lamb alternatively. If we had the money we would also add some Broccoli. The oldest dog and oldest cat in the world had the same owner. He said his secret was to feed them broccoli with their food. The animals were in their thirties or forties and were both completely bald!


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

I think it's very interesting to hear what everyone feeds their dogs and why.

My two are definitely not picky and will scarf down anything. I feed them a rotation of kibbles, right now they are eating Nature's Variety Prairie Chicken, they definitely love having a variety. Sometimes I will add a few "extras" for them, frozen green beans, spoonful of cottage cheese, pieces of fresh veggies, just little things depending on whats available. Really don't have any reason, just for something special! These are also things that get stuffed in their kongs and frozen. I think I'm going to start buying some different types of canned foods to stuff their kongs with as well and maybe throw a spoonful on top of dinner every now and then.


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## DeLaGym (May 15, 2012)

My pup is a very picky eater with lots of dandruff in her hair. I started adding Missing Link Skin & Coat supplement to her Orijen kibble and within two weeks the dandruff disappeared and her coat is more shiny than ever. 

I just bought some platinum performance canine wellness & will begin her on that regimen tomorrow.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I don't ever top the kibble but I do give raw meat of some kind for dinner a few times a week. Sometimes she'll get the raw every evening for a week and go a couple weeks without it. She usually ends up getting things I find really cheap or that we buy for ourselves and don't end up using in a timely manner. I've also been known to give canned tuna or salmon or an egg for dinner just for a change or because we need to use it up. 

If I had more time and money I'd probably go raw so I feel that what I'm doing is better than nothing. Because the fresh foods only make up maybe 15-25% of her diet in a given month I don't have to worry so much about making sure it's balanced like I would have to with raw. And of course I am sure that she appreciates the variety.


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## rotten (Mar 13, 2012)

I use raw food. But have a hungry dog, i use kibble to top up the bulk only.


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## Navman (Oct 4, 2010)

Balanced meal is an overrated term and hyped by the pet food companies and the vets they sponsor. Its their main marketing weapon!!!! Think about how wild dogs and wolves eat. They live in packs and when a large prey is caught they settle down around the carcass to eat. Each member gets a position based on their ranking, so one meal for a member might consist of just eating the leg meat or stomach contents, organs, ribs e.t.c. They don’t eat bits of all parts, most often pieces are torn off and taken away to be consumed. A bitch could take a leg to feed her pups and herself, that’s all they get for that meal or day/s. Next time the order changes and they get some other part of the body. Over the course of time they eventually would have consumed various parts of the entire body. This is BALANCE. There is no need to balance each meal. Best thing to do is to get a chest freezer, fill it with carcasses of whatever you can buy, offals (heart, liver, brains, kidneys e.t.c) green tripe (stomach) if you can find it, meaty bones, meat, whole animals if you can. I get whole possums, rabbits, hare, fish, essentially animals killed for fur trade where the meat is of no use or sometimes sold to pet food companies. Most of the above can be found in the cheap bins at butchers, or befriend your local butcher and have an arrangement with him. Get it pre cut if need be depending on the size of your furry member. Once you have set up a freezer with such parts, just grab whatever comes to hand for feeding. Eventually they will get all parts of the body so no need to balance each meal.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Navman said:


> Hi Kafkabeetle,
> 
> Balanced meal is an overrated term and hyped by the pet food companies and the vets they sponsor. Its their main marketing weapon!!!! Think about how wild dogs and wolves eat. They live in packs and when a large prey is caught they settle down around the carcass to eat. Each member gets a position based on their ranking, so one meal for a member might consist of just eating the leg meat or stomach contents, organs, ribs e.t.c. They don’t eat bits of all parts, most often pieces are torn off and taken away to be consumed. A bitch could take a leg to feed her pups and herself, that’s all they get for that meal or day/s. Next time the order changes and they get some other part of the body. Over the course of time they eventually would have consumed various parts of the entire body. This is BALANCE. There is no need to balance each meal. Best thing to do is to get a chest freezer, fill it with carcasses of whatever you can buy, offals (heart, liver, brains, kidneys e.t.c) green tripe (stomach) if you can find it, meaty bones, meat, whole animals if you can. I get whole possums, rabbits, hare, fish, essentially animals killed for fur trade where the meat is of no use or sometimes sold to pet food companies. Most of the above can be found in the cheap bins at butchers, or befriend your local butcher and have an arrangement with him. Get it pre cut if need be depending on the size of your furry member. Once you have set up a freezer with such parts, just grab whatever comes to hand for feeding. Eventually they will get all parts of the body so no need to balance each meal.


I never implied that I needed to balance each meal. In fact I think I made it pretty clear that I DON'T balance each meal. I don't have access to all the parts of an animal even over time so I don't feed raw. If I tried to at this point it would lead to deficiencies. I don't have a large freezer to keep the parts in either. Why is it so difficult for people to understand that not everyone is in the right life situation to feed their dogs raw? I feel like everywhere I turn someone is trying to convince people who have already stated they don't have the means or desire to do so that they can manage it this or that way. I understand how it works and have decided against it. Geez.


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## Navman (Oct 4, 2010)

Okey, backing off meant it as a general blurb to all in the post really, Take care  Just re-read your post and you said, quoting: "I don't have to worry so much about making sure it's balanced like I would have to with raw" Thats why i just expalined that with raw you dont have to balance contrary to what you said. 

Peace.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Navman said:


> Just re-read your post and you said, quoting: "I don't have to worry so much about making sure it's balanced like I would have to with raw" Thats why i just expalined that with raw you dont have to balance contrary to what you said.


But you *do* have to balance *over time* so you don't end up with deficiencies. That's just true. If I fed exclusively the raw items I was feeding now I would have an unhealthy dog before long.


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## Navman (Oct 4, 2010)

kafkabeetle said:


> But you *do* have to balance *over time* so you don't end up with deficiencies. That's just true. If I fed exclusively the raw items I was feeding now I would have an unhealthy dog before long.


Agreed ......


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Btw, I don't intend to sound overly harsh. It's just something that comes up a lot but it's not something you could have known being a new member (judging by your post count, not your join date). Anyway, welcome to the forum.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I added Vital refrigerated food to my dog's meals because it's healthier than her main food though her main food is healthy. I do half and half just about.


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## Navman (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks and I understand now


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

My dogs get a very high quality kibble (raw is hard to get here) and the protein source gets rotated with each bag. 
They don't always get add-ins but when they do it varies from some good quality wet food (Ziwi Peak, TotW, Blue Wilderness, Merrick, etc), yogurt, cottage cheese, pumpkin, and sardines.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

PatchworkRobot said:


> (raw is hard to get here)


LOL, I always thought Texans were big on meat .


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## odiesmom (May 31, 2007)

I supplement with salmon cooked in some rice a couple times a week, oh and sometimes I add a couple eggs to the mix. The cats love this mix also and since my bf owns a charter boat I have an endless supply of salmon.


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## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

My dogs mostly just get Merricks canned food added to their dinner. Legend gets 2 spoonfuls, Faolan gets 1/2 a can (minus the 2 spoonfuls). I've been thinking about adding some raw meat in the mornings, like maybe a couple chicken wings for Legend and get a bag of leg quarters and replace Faolan's morning cup of kibble with a leg quarter a few times a week. Might go do that when I get paid again. I used to feed Faolan raw when he was a young puppy, like from 3.5 months old to about 7 months old, but it is too expensive here and I couldn't find as much variety as I wanted, so this would work better.


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## Pekinchick (Jun 11, 2012)

I mix stuff that Brownie likes, like chicken, fish or beef with broth, yogurt or gravy and freeze them in ice trays. He gets 1 cube per meal partially melted onto his dry food. All ingredients I use are organic, no salt and meats are in water if from a can. I also use Merricks canned dog food sometimes but he loves home cooked toppings much more. He's on rotation diet so he gets different brand and protein each time I get a new bag. I do it just to give him variety, he enjoys his food much more and it's fun making up recipes for him.


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## Mizbri (Jun 13, 2012)

I have been reading all these posts about nutrition and I am starting to think I need to supplement my dog's diets! I am feeding Iams...which was recomended by their vet. Not planning to discontinue this brand since it's the only type my picky eater will actually eat...but now I want to supplement it with something home made. What ingredients do you guys reccomend I use? I see much about yams, and pumpkin, and fresh meat...what are the KEY foods you think would make a good supplement? Also, can you buy finely ground bone anywhere? Thanks!


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Mizbri said:


> I have been reading all these posts about nutrition and I am starting to think I need to supplement my dog's diets! I am feeding Iams...which was recomended by their vet. Not planning to discontinue this brand since it's the only type my picky eater will actually eat...but now I want to supplement it with something home made. What ingredients do you guys reccomend I use? I see much about yams, and pumpkin, and fresh meat...what are the KEY foods you think would make a good supplement? Also, can you buy finely ground bone anywhere? Thanks!


Have you tried any of the premium brands that can only be found at pet stores or farm supply places? Chances are if you're only looking at the grocery store, there are many better foods your dog hasn't tried yet. Check out this site: dogfoodadvisor.com My dog was pretty good about eating her Purina One, but she really started enjoying her food when I put her on Taste of the Wild (purchased at Tractor Supply) and Earthborn (purchased online).

Also, I would recommend supplementing with raw meat, bones and organs, as well as raw eggs with the shell (or whatever of those is readily available to you). Personally I would forget the yams and pumpkin. Your dog is getting plenty of carbs from Iams and dogs don't even require carbs at all, so you wouldn't be accomplishing anything above and beyond your dog's current diet. Be sure to feed *at least* 50% prepared diet (like kibble) if you don't plan on doing a lot of research on keeping a raw or homecooked diet balanced. A raw diet can be awesome but you have to make sure you understand how it works or you can really harm your dog by causing deficiencies.


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## Losech (Apr 5, 2011)

The girls get an egg on top of their kibble almost every day. Sometimes some cottage cheese, or yogurt, as well as any leftovers I decide to give them. Anything that's not poisonous to dogs, they get.
The Shiba eats raw, but also gets "toppers" every now and then. Cottage cheese, yogurt, etc. But he doesn't get leftovers like the Girls do, he has too many food intolerances for that.


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## Mizbri (Jun 13, 2012)

kafkabeetle said:


> Have you tried any of the premium brands that can only be found at pet stores or farm supply places? Chances are if you're only looking at the grocery store, there are many better foods your dog hasn't tried yet. Check out this site: dogfoodadvisor.com My dog was pretty good about eating her Purina One, but she really started enjoying her food when I put her on Taste of the Wild (purchased at Tractor Supply) and Earthborn (purchased online).
> 
> Also, I would recommend supplementing with raw meat, bones and organs, as well as raw eggs with the shell (or whatever of those is readily available to you). Personally I would forget the yams and pumpkin. Your dog is getting plenty of carbs from Iams and dogs don't even require carbs at all, so you wouldn't be accomplishing anything above and beyond your dog's current diet. Be sure to feed *at least* 50% prepared diet (like kibble) if you don't plan on doing a lot of research on keeping a raw or homecooked diet balanced. A raw diet can be awesome but you have to make sure you understand how it works or you can really harm your dog by causing deficiencies.


Feeding them raw stuff really freaks me out. I am a caterer, and have a food safety certification, the things that lurk in raw foods are not pleasant. Seems like they can get sick if they eat raw foods. I know, in the wild dogs eat food raw...but I guess I just have a hard time wrapping my head around feeding them raw eggs, or meats. Do you give raw chicken too? I picked up some meat and liver for them at the store today and I am REALLY on the fence about serving it raw, probably will cook it first. More insight on this is gladly welcomed =)


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Max eats raw, intact animals complete with digestive tracts every once in a while even. The only time he has ever been ill was from a fast food hamburger and the only time I have had food poisoning was from a county fair teriyaki bowl. 

You don't have to feed raw, stew up some chicken and use a bit of that daily if you like. Save a bit of hamburger to cook plain for the dogs. Raw fed Max gets the scrapings from my scrambled egg pan. Put a bit of canned sardine or salmon in the kibble if you have it for lunch and so on. Just keep the emphasis on meat and such rather than plant foods.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I also add some boiled Chicken daily and some pan boiled chicken liver or gizzards once a week now. I also add a touch of olive oil to the liver and gizzards and just enough water to cook them (not covered in water) in a regular skillet. Once a month I add some tuna fish canned in water to their kibble. I have also been making them hard boiled eggs or scrambled eggs once a week now. I changed up a bit on my feeding habits. I either make their treats or they are allowed milk bones without food coloring, pig ears, and cow ears.

If I am making hamburger ... I will boil up a bit to keep them from eating an overload of fat. I worry about them being Schnauzer mixes and their pancreas now since Leeo passed on. Wonder if I am just too paranoid???


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Mizbri said:


> Feeding them raw stuff really freaks me out. I am a caterer, and have a food safety certification, the things that lurk in raw foods are not pleasant. Seems like they can get sick if they eat raw foods. I know, in the wild dogs eat food raw...but I guess I just have a hard time wrapping my head around feeding them raw eggs, or meats. Do you give raw chicken too? I picked up some meat and liver for them at the store today and I am REALLY on the fence about serving it raw, probably will cook it first. More insight on this is gladly welcomed =)


It is unlikely that your dogs would get sick from raw meat, because carnivores have short digestive tracts. The food has usually passed through their bodies long before any bacteria could cause issues. Dogs are not people. And anyway, kibbles tend to be contaminated with salmonella as well. My dog gets raw meats of all sorts and a raw egg one or two times a week. We've never had an issue and she loves it.

That said, if it still makes you uncomfortable, it's ok to feed it cooked too. But like Kathyy said, just emphasize animal proteins like meat and eggs. Some say raw meat is more nutritious and that the cooking process kills nutrients, but it's probably not a big enough loss to be concerned about it, especially since your dog will also be eating commercial food as well.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

My dogs get Pinnacle grain free kibble. I top it with canned food. Weruva Human Style is the main one of choice, but I also will use Fromm Gold, Mulligan Stew, Simply Nourish, Nature's Variety Homestyle and Merrick.


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## Swinn (Feb 17, 2010)

Navman said:


> Gosh! Makes me shudder reading some of the comments. Depending on your belief’s Dogs were created or evolved as a carnivorous animal just like wolves, lions, tigers e.t.c. Carnivorous means meat eating full stop! Just imagine if you worked at a zoo, would you be feeding the wolves and lions pumpkin, rice e.t.c?
> 
> Secondly: carnivorous animals have been built to eat meat raw where all the nutrients are present in the natural form with the required biochemicals that will help absorb everything that the piece of meat has to offer. You cook it and you will firstly dissolve and remove most of the good stuff, whats remaining will not have the bio-availability for the digestive system to recognise the various nutrients, proteins e.t.c.
> 
> ...




I'm a raw feeder myself but I see HUGE mistakes in your thinking.. You wrote "whats remaining will not have the bio-availability for the digestive system to recognise the various nutrients, proteins e.t.c." WHAT??? Cooking does destroy some amino acids in proteins but the body still recognizes the amino acids that are left. Yes, the food is no longer as bioavailable as it was raw but the in tact amino acids are still used by the body -- they are still recognized. The body knows glutamine when it sees glutamine..

I will admit that I HATE grains for MANY reasons.. But vegetables and fruits (in small amounts) can add huge benefits to the diet. I too try to emulate the ancestral diet BUT my dogs don't live in the wild. They live in a polluted environment -- car exhaust, chemical cleaners, formaldehyde in particle board furniture and carpeting etc. The extra antioxidants from fruits and veggies can help with these toxic exposures.. 

It is true, in my opinion, that wolves don't eat the stomach contents of large prey but they do eat the tripe. Which will have small bits of vegetation as well as the nutrients provided by that vegetation. And, they do eat the stomach contents of smaller prey. I've also seen video of wolves eating berries and grasses. Grass provides chlorophyll, magnesium etc. Yes, some eat certain grasses to purge but not all grasses are eaten for the purpose of purging.


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## Mizbri (Jun 13, 2012)

Swinn said:


> I'm a raw feeder myself but I see HUGE mistakes in your thinking.. You wrote "whats remaining will not have the bio-availability for the digestive system to recognise the various nutrients, proteins e.t.c." WHAT??? Cooking does destroy some amino acids in proteins but the body still recognizes the amino acids that are left. Yes, the food is no longer as bioavailable as it was raw but the in tact amino acids are still used by the body -- they are still recognized. The body knows glutamine when it sees glutamine..
> 
> I will admit that I HATE grains for MANY reasons.. But vegetables and fruits (in small amounts) can add huge benefits to the diet. I too try to emulate the ancestral diet BUT my dogs don't live in the wild. They live in a polluted environment -- car exhaust, chemical cleaners, formaldehyde in particle board furniture and carpeting etc. The extra antioxidants from fruits and veggies can help with these toxic exposures..
> 
> It is true, in my opinion, that wolves don't eat the stomach contents of large prey but they do eat the tripe. Which will have small bits of vegetation as well as the nutrients provided by that vegetation. And, they do eat the stomach contents of smaller prey. I've also seen video of wolves eating berries and grasses. Grass provides chlorophyll, magnesium etc. Yes, some eat certain grasses to purge but not all grasses are eaten for the purpose of purging.


Where did you guys learn all of this stuff?? Is there a dog nutrition class I missed in college? lol I thought I was doing great at feeding my dogs...now I feel like I have been letting my kids eat candy for dinner every night, compared to y'all. You talk about amino acids and glutamine...ha ha ha, I don't even know what that is! I feel like a big dummy...where did you learn this stuff? I want to learn too. =))


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I learned because A] Sassy's kidneys started failing, B] 3 cups of the kidney diet looked a whole lot like eating corn pops day in and day out, C] the 2007 melamine contamination got closer and closer to what I was giving the dogs. So I figured out how to cook for her and after looking at those wasted chicken bones for 6 months started to give the raw ones to Max and off I went.

Here are a couple of sites I love that have a huge amount of information on feeding dogs fresh food, my particular emphasis.
Look through the newsletters here for a lot of info on feeding dogs. Look at the letters on the history of dog food in particular.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletters
And spend a few days browsing this site. Pretty well organized but HUGE.
http://www.dogaware.com/diet/index.html
And for kibbles I like this site as it teaches you how to find a food with the best stuffhttp://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts.

Swinn? Do you have a citation for the magnesium in grass? I am always looking for the dratted magnesium for Max. His diet has an adequate amount but he does better with the optimal amount so he gets a nasty pill every couple days.


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## Swinn (Feb 17, 2010)

Mizbri said:


> Where did you guys learn all of this stuff?? Is there a dog nutrition class I missed in college? lol I thought I was doing great at feeding my dogs...now I feel like I have been letting my kids eat candy for dinner every night, compared to y'all. You talk about amino acids and glutamine...ha ha ha, I don't even know what that is! I feel like a big dummy...where did you learn this stuff? I want to learn too. =))


LOL Mizbril  

My dad is a Naturopathic Doctor with an emphasis on herbals and nutrition. I picked up a lot from him and attended conferences on nutrition as my dad's guest.. The same company that does the human conferences also does two monthly webinars for dog health. I was invited to attend those .. Plus, a lot of canine and human information is same or similar. There are some great websites with LOTS of info and great books too........

I'm not a trained pet "nutritionist" but I do get paid by a local doggy health food store to give classes to her customers. I have also done consultations with another owner of a different doggy health food store, a pet food manufacturer and private consultations ..

Some great sites with reliable info is www.seespotlivelonger.com www.b-naturals.com www.dogaware.com www.mercola.com then click the "Pets" link at the top. Dr. Karen Becker DVM has articles and videos (she is holistic by the way).

Happy learning  hee hee hee


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## Swinn (Feb 17, 2010)

Kathyy said:


> I learned because A] Sassy's kidneys started failing, B] 3 cups of the kidney diet looked a whole lot like eating corn pops day in and day out, C] the 2007 melamine contamination got closer and closer to what I was giving the dogs. So I figured out how to cook for her and after looking at those wasted chicken bones for 6 months started to give the raw ones to Max and off I went.
> 
> Here are a couple of sites I love that have a huge amount of information on feeding dogs fresh food, my particular emphasis.
> Look through the newsletters here for a lot of info on feeding dogs. Look at the letters on the history of dog food in particular.
> ...



The link were I originally found/read the magnesium in grass is no longer a viable link but here is where I posted quotes from the site http://healthypets.mercola.com/groups/healthypets/forum/t/100077.aspx?PageIndex=2

PS -- my Audrey (the dog in my avatar on the above link) was born with kidney disease. Symptoms were seen as early as 6 weeks old however official diagnosis didn't happen til her one year checkup.. Audrey was weaned on a raw food diet and has been high protein raw ever since. Audrey turns six years old the end of this month (the 30th) and is in EXCELLENT health ... She never gets sick and doesn't require any medications. I do have her on nutraceuticals and whole food vitamins though.. 

PS -- my real name is Shawna.. I'm a regular on Dog Food Advisor too.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Note: "Grass provides chlorophyll, magnesium etc." ... By definition chlorophyll contains Magnesium, just as Hemoglobin contains iron... The metals in the center of the respective molecules help transport the associated gas molecules. However, I don't how bio-available the magnesium is, and I don't know of any statistical research that proves the value of chlorophyll.

Much earlier there was an assertion that Dogs are carnivores. Dogs aren't wolves and they aren't carnivores, they are omnivores, requiring vegetables. Cats are carnivores, and dogs that eat lots of cat food will get sick from a lack of appropriate nutrition.

Returning to the original question: I feed my dog dry food, Missing Link Plus for the Fat, and carrots for crunchy goodness.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

hanksimon said:


> Note: "Grass provides chlorophyll, magnesium etc." ... By definition chlorophyll contains Magnesium, just as Hemoglobin contains iron... The metals in the center of the respective molecules help transport the associated gas molecules. However, I don't how bio-available the magnesium is, and I don't know of any statistical research that proves the value of chlorophyll.
> 
> Much earlier there was an assertion that Dogs are carnivores. Dogs aren't wolves and they aren't carnivores, they are omnivores, requiring vegetables. Cats are carnivores, and dogs that eat lots of cat food will get sick from a lack of appropriate nutrition.
> 
> Returning to the original question: I feed my dog dry food, Missing Link Plus for the Fat, and carrots for crunchy goodness.


Dogs are carnivores, they just aren't obligate carnivores. They can produce some vitamins/minerals inside their bodies which obligate carnivores can't. But their teeth and other bodily features point much closer to a primarily carnivorous diet than to an omnivorous one. They can tolerate some carbs without harm, but they have absolutely no requirement for them and therefore they don't require vegetables in their diet either. They aren't omnivores like humans, who need a wide array of plant and animal foods in order to attain proper nutrition. That's why a human would do poorly on a raw meat diet (gross), while many dogs thrive on it.


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

In 1993 dog's scientific classification was changed from canis familiaris to canis lupus familaris, defining it as a subspecies of wolf. They are part of the mammalian order carnivora, however, they are not obligate carnivores and can digest some plant matter. That being said, a look at their dentition and digestive track reveals that their bodies are more optimized for processing meat than plants.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

In other words, they don't NEED fruits/veggies/grains but can digest and derive some benefit from some kinds of plant matter. Obligate carnivores like cats and ferrets derive no benefit from plant matter.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Hamilton gets "gravy" with his kibbles at night most nights. It's just a generous spoonful of "all meat" type canned food mixed with water and warmed to room temperature. I make sure he's had it if he's been running around a lot or it's warmer out to make sure he's getting some extra water with his food.


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## Swinn (Feb 17, 2010)

hanksimon said:


> Note: "Grass provides chlorophyll, magnesium etc." ... By definition chlorophyll contains Magnesium, just as Hemoglobin contains iron... The metals in the center of the respective molecules help transport the associated gas molecules. However, I don't how bio-available the magnesium is, and I don't know of any statistical research that proves the value of chlorophyll.
> 
> Much earlier there was an assertion that Dogs are carnivores. Dogs aren't wolves and they aren't carnivores, they are omnivores, requiring vegetables. Cats are carnivores, and dogs that eat lots of cat food will get sick from a lack of appropriate nutrition.
> 
> Returning to the original question: I feed my dog dry food, Missing Link Plus for the Fat, and carrots for crunchy goodness.


Yes, plant chlorophyll has only one molecular difference from blood -- magnesium instead of iron. Many holistic doctors keep chlorophyll capsules on hand to give in cases of blood loss. Its referred to as a "blood builder". However only fat soluble chlorophyl is medicinal -- water soluble is pretty worthless from my understanding. Chlorophyll is also excellent for pain relief.. Great for burns (raw honey is good for burns too ..

Many feel that dogs are carnivores.. I don't know that it really matters what you call them.. The bottom line is that they thrive on a high protein diet. I do agree that dogs do well with plant matter (vegetables in the diet)... However, it is well established (included in the teaching books like Waltham) that dogs do not "require" vegetables.. I do think they can provide great nutrition but they know that dogs don't "need" them.

Kibble is certainly not horrible for dogs but there are down sides to kibble -- even the super premiums.. Just one example -- most kibbles are carcinogenic. Certainly not all dogs that eat kibble will get cancer but it can increase the risks.. Dr. Demian Dressler of the Dog Cancer Blog has an article entitled "Dog Food: Is There a Cancer Risk?" http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-food-is-there-a-cancer-risk/

Another example -- Some vets, like Dr. Karen Becker, feel that kibble increases the risk of liver and kidney disease due to the possible dehydration caused by a dry diet.


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## Mizbri (Jun 13, 2012)

kafkabeetle said:


> Have you tried any of the premium brands that can only be found at pet stores or farm supply places?
> 
> I was feeding Canidae...the ingredients seemed good, meat and veggies, probiotics ect. Then my vet said he is leary of an "all stage" formula and reccommended Iams. So we switched. It is easier on the pocket book but lacks the veggies and probiotics, so I started making them meat and veggie treats to supplement. Now I am thinking he was just recomending the Iams because he gets paid to =(


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Agreed... I don't think that anyone has ever established that Vets are experts in nutrition or dog psychology. I trust my Vet, b/c when I have a question she will say that she doesn't know, and go look it up. However, her first response is to trust the food manufacturers.... so I don't ask for her nutritional advice.

But, I depend on her for healthy weight advice and for toxicity/allergy info.


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