# 3 month puppy still having soft stool with Orijen :(



## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

i did a bunch of research on what food to choose and ended up starting our new pup off with Orijen puppy, but I feel like he's still not doing great on it. He's been on it for 4 weeks now and his stool still hasnt been consistently "hard." We thought it may have been from the treats so we tried eliminated treats temporarily, and substituting kibble instead of treats when he poos and pees properly, but still pretty soft mushy stool. His energy is still through the roof and he likes it and seems happy, but it's just the stool and also, he seems to shed kind of a lot. He doesn't smell though.

Do you guys think I should try Orijen for a bit longer, or any suggestions for another high quality (preferably grain free) food that he would hopefully do better on with harder stool?


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

i was thinking maybe TOTW but read he may be too young for that...

so im kind of thinking either *Acana * (but idk since its made by same company as orijen), *Wellness Core,* *Canidae *grain free

not sure if these are grain free - *Blue Wilderness*, *Wellness Just For Puppies*


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## puppenyaro07 (Jun 5, 2010)

deyainrdy4ds said:


> i was thinking maybe TOTW but read he may be too young for that...
> 
> so im kind of thinking either *Acana * (but idk since its made by same company as orijen), *Wellness Core,* *Canidae *grain free
> 
> not sure if these are grain free - *Blue Wilderness*, *Wellness Just For Puppies*


why would he be too young for TOTW but not wellness core or canidae grain free? they all have equally high Ca levels, which ive never understood as an issue for small breed pups skeletal development, but a definite no no for large breed pups.

if he is not looking too skinny, you might try cutting back his feeding amount a tiny bit for a few days and see if that helps. overfeeding even by a very small amount can cause mushy poos. he may be one of those dogs who doesnt handle the nutrient dense grain free foods. its too early to know that. if another grainless food doesnt work, maybe a good grian inclusive food will work.

if it doesnt help, it will be difiicult to know what is causing the problem. has he had a fecal workout to see if there is anything going on there? after that, maybe a switch to a food using a different protein source. if the fecal is negative, its going to be trial and error.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

I have no suggestions...just wanted to say your puppy is sooo cute!!


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

puppenyaro07 said:


> why would he be too young for TOTW but not wellness core or canidae grain free? they all have equally high Ca levels, which ive never understood as an issue for small breed pups skeletal development, but a definite no no for large breed pups.
> 
> if he is not looking too skinny, you might try cutting back his feeding amount a tiny bit for a few days and see if that helps. overfeeding even by a very small amount can cause mushy poos.
> 
> if it doesnt help, it will be difiicult to know what is causing the problem. has he had a fecal workout to see if there is anything going on there? after that, maybe a switch to a food using a different protein source. if the fecal is negative, its going to be trial and error.


lol idk...thats just what i had read about TOTW so i eliminated it and just still in the process of looking into other foods, but wanted to get some feedback first...i guess ill look more into the calcium levels debate...

his weight looks normal and he's fed 3 times a day because he's a pup...i do remember reading that overfeeding orijen can cause the mushy poo so maybe we'll try cutting back....problem though is that i want to make sure he's eating enough as a puppy

any suggestion on how much Orijen a 3 month old ..maybe 1-2 pound toy fox terrier puppy should be eating daily?



alphadoginthehouse said:


> I have no suggestions...just wanted to say your puppy is sooo cute!!


thank u! lol


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## f575gtc (Jun 4, 2010)

if you can't have a ferrari...might as well name a dog that


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## puppenyaro07 (Jun 5, 2010)

deyainrdy4ds said:


> lol idk...thats just what i had read about TOTW so i eliminated it and just still in the process of looking into other foods, but wanted to get some feedback first...i guess ill look more into the calcium levels debate...
> 
> his weight looks normal and he's fed 3 times a day because he's a pup...i do remember reading that overfeeding orijen can cause the mushy poo so maybe we'll try cutting back....problem though is that i want to make sure he's eating enough as a puppy
> 
> ...


i would think if you are not seeing weight loss and ribs showing, you could cut down. im sure a dog that small consumes very little. maybe try cutting 1/5 from what he is eating. it is certainly possible that overfeeding isnt the issue and that orijen just isnt going to work for him or he may have something going on medically (which is why i suggested a fecal to rule that out).

the reason you see people saying to stay away from TOTW or other grainless foods for pups is when people want to feed those to large breed pups. they have higher Ca levels, which studies have shown to cause skeletal developmental problems in large breed pups, often due to excess Ca causing accelerated growth rates.


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

f575gtc said:


> if you can't have a ferrari...might as well name a dog that


haha that was just a bonus...gave the gf a list and she liked that one...n i was like "nice!" lol can name him enzo b/c hes fast too! lol

whats your username about?..see some ferrari relation in there



puppenyaro07 said:


> i would think if you are not seeing weight loss and ribs showing, you could cut down. im sure a dog that small consumes very little. maybe try cutting 1/5 from what he is eating.
> 
> the reason you see people saying to stay away from TOTW or other grainless foods for pups is when people want to feed those to large breed pups. they have higher Ca levels, which studies have shown to cause skeletal developmental problems in large breed pups, often due to excess Ca causing acclerated growth rates.


yeah basically he's fed in the kong of waggle toy at each of his feeding times so maybe instead of just stuffing those toys and not knowing what the actually measured amount is, we'll see how much kibble 3 of those stuffed toys equate too and then take a bit out and separate into 3 portions....i hope it works because i wanna stick with orijen just because ive heard so many good things


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## f575gtc (Jun 4, 2010)

but that was for pups and large breed?

im sure if you have an adult dog, or a small breed of dog, you should be fine


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

f575gtc said:


> but that was for pups and large breed?
> 
> im sure if you have an adult dog, or a small breed of dog, you should be fine


with TOTW?




and any suggestions or recommendations of what possible food to switch to if less feeding doesnt do the trick?


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## f575gtc (Jun 4, 2010)

with any food that claims to have a high Ca content.


hyper development of the bones in pups of a large breed and lead to problems when they are old ( Osteoporosis).

if you have a small breed which it looks like you do, or if you start feeding after puppy hood (older than 12 months).

You should be fine, really all I can say try a few things, buy small bags, if you have soft/loose stool try foods with limited ingredients, i.e Blue Buffalo Basics, Nutro Natural Choice, and see if she accepts it better.

You should be fine with TOTW if you should choice it.


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## puppenyaro07 (Jun 5, 2010)

deyainrdy4ds said:


> with TOTW?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


honestly, id probably get a fecal test done just to be sure. otherwise, all the swithing in the world wont help.

depends if you want to go grain free or not. if so, i love the acana grainless formulas, and each of them uses a different primary protein source, so they are nice to rotate:

Grasslands
Pacifica
Prarie Harvest


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

he probably weighs somewhere between 1-2 pounds....heres a pic of roughly how much he eats per day....divided into 3 meals....at roughly 8am, 12-1ish, 5-6ish....

hes fed in a Kong binky (binky is the teal toy in the 2nd pic of the sig) and half a Waggle each meal...im thinking of narrowing it down to just the Kong binky for breakfast and lunch and then the Kong binky & half a waggle for dinner....? but i feel like hes still going to be hungry after just that


does this look like too much food...?
looks like about half a cup...its Orijen Puppy


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

He's only 1-2lbs? And you're feeding him 1/2 cup of food a day?  That's wayyyy too much food! Orijen especially! I fed my pup 1/2 cup when he was on Orijen and he weighed something like 5-6lbs!

Reduce the amount you're feeding him and you'll see his stool firm right up.


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## dieterherzog (Sep 28, 2009)

lucidity said:


> He's only 1-2lbs? And you're feeding him 1/2 cup of food a day?  That's wayyyy too much food! Orijen especially! I fed my pup 1/2 cup when he was on Orijen and he weighed something like 5-6lbs!
> 
> Reduce the amount you're feeding him and you'll see his stool firm right up.


Yah, Orijen website says for 3 month puppy between 2 - 7lbs, feed 1/2 - 3/4 cup a day. So if your puppy is not even 2 lbs, better off feeding less. Perhaps 1/4 cup + 2 tbsps. Can also add a wee bit canned organic pumpkin (1/2tsp) to see if that helps.


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

ok thanks for the feedback!...we'll try reducing to roughly 1/3-2/5 of a cup and see if it gets any better


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## mrslloyd09 (Jul 12, 2009)

We fed Melodie Wellness Puppy when we first got her and we had to feed her very little otherwise her tummy would be upset. It's my understanding, that the better quality the food, the less you have to feed because the body does a better job processing it.


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

mrslloyd09 said:


> We fed Melodie Wellness Puppy when we first got her and we had to feed her very little otherwise her tummy would be upset. It's my understanding, that the better quality the food, the less you have to feed because the body does a better job processing it.


yeah ive read that as well.....we've actually been feeding him less and been seeing results already!...the poop definitely is a lot firmer, darker, and also i think it smells less ...now we'll just have to do a little trial and error to make sure we dont under feed him either.....

thanks for the help everyone!

now the only other thing ive noticed is that he seems to shed kind of a lot!...his breed is supposed to be a "light shedder" but it seems like a lot...ive read that lower quality food = more shedding....but he's being fed orijen so idk....not a huge deal since he is small and its short hair but we'll keep an eye on it


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## mrslloyd09 (Jul 12, 2009)

Mandie almost instantly started shedding less when she was on Wellness Core and now both girls barely shed since we've started on RAW.


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

mrslloyd09 said:


> Mandie almost instantly started shedding less when she was on Wellness Core and now both girls barely shed since we've started on RAW.


so you think the orijen is the culprit? :-/


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## LuvmyRotti (Oct 26, 2007)

Has your puppy had a fecal test at the vets for Giardia?


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## deyainrdy4ds (May 9, 2010)

no he hasnt..it isnt diarrhea though....its just not as firm as i feel it should be....but since he lowered the amount we're feeding him, his poop firmed right up! so it looks like that probably was the problem


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