# Coat of many colors



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

So the APBT has many variations in color, probably almost every excluding a few.

Inspired by GSD forum thread about variation . . . .Share other breeds with a wide range of color.

APBT
Black
Black & tan
Black & tan w/ brindle points
Brindle which can come in a variety of colors and density Black, Gray, Brown, Red, Tan, Sable/smut, Buckskin, Fawn, Seal w/ under lying brindle, ect 
Brown
Buckskin
Fawn
Liver
Red
Sable/smut or dirty buckskin
Seal
Tan

"red nose"
Chocolate
Chocolate & tan w/ brindle points
Chocolate, Red, Buckskin, Tan, Red smut or Fawn brindle
Buckskin
Fawn
Liver
Red
Red smut
Tan

"blue nose"
Blue
Blue & tan
Blue & tan w/ brindle points
Blue brindle which can consist of fawn, buckskin, ect base coat and Blue smut brindle
Blue buckskin
Blue fawn
Blue seal
Blue smut
Blue tan

Dogs w/ both red(liver)/blue(dilute)nose genes 
Lilac
Lilac & tan
Lilac & tan w/ brindle points
Lilac brindle
Lilac smut

Champagne
Champagne brindle

Several colors can vary in shade from light to dark

Additionally dogs can have white markings, mostly white w/ patches or be solid white.

Black mask (or respective blue, lilac or chocolate)

In a previous thread I made the color markings I couldnt figure out might be urajiro (is that what it was). It could be same genes or just look the same.

There is also the silvering around the muzzles in some dogs.

There are really tons of color and pattern variations


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Border Collies come in pretty much any color possible.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> Border Collies come in pretty much any color possible.


LOL I was just going to say this. I don't think there's an "unacceptable" color in the breed....


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

There are lots of different recognized (I don't mean recognized by the show ring - just known) coat colors as well as genetic mutations and unusual coat patterns caused by recessive genes. They are quite unusual and very attractive, nonetheless:

























_This might be an result of Vitiligo in dogs_

All these different coat colors can be born in litters even from champion blood line pure bred dogs and can appear in every breed (even with blue eyes). Quite interesting. I love genetics!

But, I know that the breed I have, the borzoi, can come in almost any color imaginable, except for merles. There is no disqualification for any coat color and or combinations.
Just to name a few:

All white
white with spots (of any color - brown, red, blue, brindle, etc)
Tri colored (commonly black, white, and tan)
Self colored and self colored with points (solid colored points, brindle)
Any self color or white with any colored spots (tan, brown, black with brindle points and or black masks)
The list can go on and on and on!!! It's amazing.
Also, there are no rules for markings. Borzoi can have any markings in any pattern/position on their body.
For example: My borzoi has an all white left side, but a totally splotched and spotted right side (blue and tan spots)


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

WHAT is up with that Rottie?? WOW! We had a black lab come into the clinic a few weeks ago and I wanted to take a picture of him (he was quite ill though, so I didn't want to be rude), his head was mostly white.. not quite as extreme as that Rott pic you posted, but similar. It was bizzare!

I think Chihuahuas can come in nearly every colour..


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

I think the white spots on the dogs look friggin' awesome! The rott has the most extreme case of it, but it's often less so then that:


















Seems like it appears in black and tan coated dogs more so than other coat colors.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Wow that Rottweiler! And the first one is... a Labrador? The second one is a GSD with 'panda' coloring, I've seen those before (on the internet, not IRL unfortunately). I'm still amazed by that Rottweiler. 

My breed only comes in white, so not much to add there. Only differences in color is eye color (light brown to dark brown/black) and nose color (black or liver colored, though black is preferred).


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

Yes, the first one is a labrador. It's a somatic mutation:

















Here are some more panda G.sheps:
















Pretty cool!


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

There is a "Panda" shepherd breeder that lives about 2 hours away from me. I am IN LOVE with their dogs, and one day when I'm rolling in the dough I DEFINITELY want to get one. I <3 GSD's.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Insanely cool.. the Dobe looks like he knocked over a paint can!

Are there health issues, or anything, that is linked to these colour mutations?


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

There are these also:




























I always thought this was interesting





































It is very rare, but weims do come with tan points.


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

WOW! does that rottie have green eyes? Fantastic! I've seen them with blue, but never green. Very sweet!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Dezzoi said:


> WOW! does that rottie have green eyes? Fantastic! I've seen them with blue, but never green. Very sweet!


What rottie?


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> LOL I was just going to say this. I don't think there's an "unacceptable" color in the breed....


Out of curiosity, are brindles allowed?


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## LoveCWCs (Oct 21, 2011)

Cardis come in blue, red, tri color, sable, and brindle. sable merles are not allowed in the breed.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

What breeds are they, Chaosisaweim? Do I see a brown Schipperke in there? Don't tell me most of those pics are Weimaraners... or are they?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Shaina said:


> Out of curiosity, are brindles allowed?


Yes, and brindle pointed dogs.

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Permanent/BCColors_Brindle/BC_ColorBrindle.html

My favorite is Stella on this page: http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Permanent/BCColors_Ticked/BC_ColorTicked.html

I saw her run at a USBCHA trial a few years ago.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I think if it exists, Dachshunds come in it.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Aussie are only allowed to be registered if they are Black or Liver And they are allowed to have the genetic modifiers of merle, and have tan points, and irish white. Those genetic combinations are the only things ALLOWED in the breed (doesn't mean people don't lie about the color of their dog and register it as a different color). The E masking gene is also allowed tho it is not mentioned in any way in the standard.


Aussies have been born as (not including the above)
Sable (like a GSD sable)
Saddle back black and tan
Dilute Black
Dilute Liver
ee Yellow
Pie bald (this is probably the most common "issue" that pops up in normally bred litters)
Brindle
Harlequin (a modification of merle)


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

No, none of them are weims. 

Here is what they are in order

Greater Swiss Mt. Dog
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Schipperke
Great Dane
Labrador Retriever
Dogue De Bordeaux
Poodle

I also like these

Not a off-colored dog, just like it:









Not a Samoyed:



















Not a DQ, just very undesirable 









And these are 

Dunker
Keeshond
Boston Terrier
Bulldog


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Is that really a purebred Ridgeback or a mix with a ridge? I've seen the ridge occur in known mixes which explains the color without being a genetic abnormality.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

No it's a real ridgeback, it happens but it's pretty rare.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Another breed worth mentioning is the Azawakh. Only accepted in reds and brindles, they must have white markings, black mask not accepted(FCI). AKC accepts them in any color. Most breeders only breed with red dogs, but in Africa they come in all sorts of colorings. 














Particolored














Brindles, left one with black mask







Blue







Sand














Faded saddle and blanket

The type that FCI prefers:








It's a shame this is the only type being bred for within the FCI, when there's such a diversity of coat colors in the Azawakh's countries of origin.


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> What rottie?











Or is that a weim with tan points? It would help if you would label the breed when they are puppies....it's hard to distinguish, especially with such rare colors.


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

Avie said:


> Another breed worth mentioning is the Azawakh. Only accepted in reds and brindles, they must have white markings, black mask not accepted(FCI). AKC accepts them in any color. Most breeders only breed with red dogs, but in Africa they come in all sorts of colorings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love Azawakhs! A lot of my friends are breeders of the breed and my sister is thinking about getting one. Hope so! My borzoi would love that! hehe thanks for sharing!


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Shaina said:


> Out of curiosity, are brindles allowed?


Yup! In the working world. I'm not sure about the show world though. Also coat type vary from rough, smooth, curly and even some dogs are a bit wire-haired!! Very bizarre.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

Dezzoi said:


> Or is that a weim with tan points? It would help if you would label the breed when they are puppies....it's hard to distinguish, especially with such rare colors.





ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Here is what they are in order
> 
> Greater Swiss Mt. Dog
> Rhodesian Ridgeback
> ...



In the list Chaos posted it corresponds as a Labrador Retriever.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Nil said:


> In the list she/he posted it corresponds as a Labrador Retriever.


Yes it is a lab, and last time I checked I was a she lol.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Yes it is a lab, and last time I checked I was a she lol.


Lol, good to know! Just didn't want to assume =)

So is the Labrador considered just a black lab with tan points?


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Nil said:


> Lol, good to know! Just didn't want to assume =)
> 
> So is the Labrador considered just a black lab with tan points?


Yeah I believe so. Most people online think I am a guy at first, and then again someone thought I was a guy in RL also, granted I was wearing a hat and baggy clothes.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Tollers come in lots of colors:


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

whoa, those are all awesome but I would have never guessed that was a Swissy!


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

Nil said:


> In the list Chaos posted it corresponds as a Labrador Retriever.


They hadn't written that when I had asked about it. But, now I know. Thanks-


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

here are some unusual greyhounds with strange coats too!:

















This might be a form of vitiligo as well.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Some of these pics are interesting, very unique looking. I have seen several tan point labs and a couple with brindle points in the tan. I also saw some interesting mosiac labs on a breeders site showing mismarks. 

Azawahk are a neat breed and I hate seeing trivial color restrictions.


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

CoverTune said:


> Insanely cool.. the Dobe looks like he knocked over a paint can!
> 
> Are there health issues, or anything, that is linked to these colour mutations?


I don't think there are any health problems linked with these genetic problems. These dogs are perfectly healthy.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

yup, Border collie come in every coat colour, Brindle is actually more common then you might think, its not common as all brindle and white, but brindle points on a tri are quiet normal.

the AKC standrad has no real bearing whatsoever on the BC, but I looked up their "standard" and this is what it says for colour 


> The Border Collie appears in all colors or combination of colors and/or markings


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

In Beagles there are only two acceptable color variations- tri color and lemon and white. 
However there are the colors that breeders market. Sometimes I doubt the validity of the lineage of the dog but anyways I'll list all of the possible variations of colors making the assumption the dog is purebred-
Merle (never seen a registered pedigreed merle)
Chocolate
Black/white no brown
blue tri
khaki
silver tri
dapple
"white" really an extreme lemon and white
And of course any color may contain red ticks or blue ticks similar to an Australian heeler

Here's some examples of oddly colored Beagles-
Blue-








Khaki-
















Chocolate and white, my favorite-


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Hallie said:


> Sometimes I doubt the validity of the lineage of the dog


I feel the same about merle in Chihuahuas, which is why I don't think I could ever own one. I'm also unclear on how long hair Chihuahuas came to be.. but that's a whole 'nuther topic!


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> No, none of them are weims.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that boston is very different looking...not just in color but also his tail is not the norm ether....obviously its an action shot so its hard to get a real idea


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

All these dogs are Awesome!!!! I especially like the museum for BC's and the Greyhounds.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Dezzoi said:


> here are some unusual greyhounds with strange coats too!:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that looks like a reversed Dalmatian... of sorts  Love the look, it's like snowflakes falling in a cold winter night~ I'm starting to feel all poetic when I see them.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

http://www.ashgi.org/color/adult_color_change.html

Aussies who became white as adults


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Here's a pied mastiff










Brindle, Lemon, Tri, blue Dalmatians





































Blue GSMD










Brindle Parti Poodle










Sable Poodle


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Keechak said:


> Aussie are only allowed to be registered if they are Black or Liver And they are allowed to have the genetic modifiers of merle, and have tan points, and irish white. Those genetic combinations are the only things ALLOWED in the breed (doesn't mean people don't lie about the color of their dog and register it as a different color). The E masking gene is also allowed tho it is not mentioned in any way in the standard.



You can register any Aussie whose parents are registered. You may have to guess on what color to call it.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> http://www.ashgi.org/color/adult_color_change.html
> 
> Aussies who became white as adults


 Awesome Aussies too!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I have to admit, I love parti-colored poodles and the mosaic labs.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Pawzk9 said:


> You can register any Aussie whose parents are registered. You may have to guess on what color to call it.


isn't that a little unethical?


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Not colors, but rather coat differences

Longhaired Dalmatian










Long haired Akita










Smooth Afghan Hound










Fluffy Mastiff










Longhaired Basset Hound










Smooth Saluki


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

Love the different coat lengths! I think every breed is capable of having different length of coats - again with the dominate - recessive genes thing. 









Long haired Rottie








Fluffy Pembroke Corgi








Smooth Chows


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Smooth Chow Chows and Smooth Salukis are both acceptable coat types by the standard the rest of the coat differences shown are not accepted to my knowledge. Actually there was a smooth coated Chow Chow that took Best of Breed at a local show last year.

and something is fishy about that smooth Afghan hound, how can an Afghan be smooth?


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

Good thread.

I met a fluffy ACD. I was told it was pure bred.
Weird.


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

Keechak said:


> ...and something is fishy about that smooth Afghan hound, how can an Afghan be smooth?


Smooth afghans are a result of a combinations of recessive and dominate genes no different from smooth salukis, chows, collies, etc. They can be born from two coated parents or both smooth parents ( kinda like how a wire Ibizan can be produced from two smooth Ibizans for EX.)
Here are more photos of smooth afghans:
Smooth Affies


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Dezzoi said:


> Smooth afghans are a result of a combinations of recessive genes no different from smooth salukis, chows, collies, etc. They can be born from two coated parents.
> Here are more photos of smooth afghans:
> Smooth Affies


I have never heard of a recessive smooth coat gene. Can I get some sources on this?


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

Keechak said:


> I have never heard of a recessive smooth coat gene. Can I get some sources on this?


Smooth Afghan Hounds - probably the best link to look at if you want info on smooth afghans.

Coat Genes - scroll down to 'Coat Length.'

Smooth and Rough Coats - Genes - give you some basic information about rough genes and smooth.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Dezzoi said:


> Smooth Afghan Hounds - probably the best link to look at if you want info on smooth afghans.
> 
> Coat Genes - scroll down to 'Coat Length.'
> 
> Smooth and Rough Coats - Genes - give you some basic information about rough genes and smooth.


Your vet gen link states nothing about a smooth coat recessive gene.
The other two links are not scientific sources so I wont trust those. (tho your border collie link also doesn't mention a recessive smooth)


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

I said it will give you an idea about dominate genes with recessive genes - smooth genes and rough/long haired genes. I meant to say in my previous post 'a combination of recessive AND dominate genes.'


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Yes I know how recessive and dominant genes work, what I asked for was a study proving that a dog can be born with a smooth coat out of two long coated parents, because what I've always read is that smooth coat is ALWAYS dominant over rough/long/feathered.


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## Dezzoi (Sep 19, 2011)

I think we have a misunderstanding here.
I was just posting about how genes work so, if you didn't know, you'd get an idea about how the smooth gene and long haired/rough gene work together. What I should have stated was, "I don't know of any reports about the smooth gene being recessive, but this might give you an idea how genes work." Because it sounded like you didn't know when you made that Afghan Hound comment.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

OK so your not trying to explain how an afghan hound can come out smooth from two rough parents when smooth is dominant? That's what I thought you were doing.

Then my question for others remains the same, have there been any studies done showing that a Smooth coated puppy CAN come from two rough coated parents. At this time I don't believe it's possible unless the dog has some sort of disease.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

This is where that picture comes from if you don't believe me. The dog had two coated parents. 

http://showdogcity.com/sites/Sundance.html


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> This is where that picture comes from if you don't believe me. The dog had two coated parents.
> 
> http://showdogcity.com/sites/Sundance.html


was a DNA test done to prove parentage?


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I know someone online who had a fluffy bullmastiff; handsome boy. I met a fluffy corgi IRL a couple years ago, very sweet dog and oh so cute! The longhaired akita reminds me of a Leonberger


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## DesertWindHounds (Oct 30, 2011)

Keechak said:


> Yes I know how recessive and dominant genes work, what I asked for was a study proving that a dog can be born with a smooth coat out of two long coated parents, because what I've always read is that smooth coat is ALWAYS dominant over rough/long/feathered.


And this is where the Afghan hound fools you  It _looks_ like a dog with a long (recessive) coat, but it is not. The Afghan is actually smooth, it has the gene which produces a smooth coat like you find in Greyhounds, or the wild-type coat a GSD has. Please read the study "Coat Variation in the Domestic Dog Is Governed by Variants in Three Genes." Of the twelve Afghan hounds included in the study, eight were homozygous for the smooth gene, three were heterozygous (carried the long coat gene) (and one was evidently a dud. Also, the presence of the recessive long coat gene argues for some Afghans to be homozygous for long coat. Not enough data!) Anyways, the supposition is that there is a modifier that affects the length of the coat. My own guess in regards to short coated Afghans is that they lack the modifier, or it is turned off. Again, not enough data.

Study available here: http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/genomics/2011/Bio309_papers/Dog_coats.pdf

Be sure to get the online data as well, there's a link at the end.

Afeena Mastermind, a smooth Afghan born in the UK, was bred and produced both smooth and coated puppies. The Afghans gifted by the Kind of Afghanistan to the President of France in the late sixties were both smooth, and produced a litter of all smooth puppies. FWIW.


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## R.Scott (Sep 18, 2011)

It is possible to get a smooth afghan from two coated afghan parents.
Here's a website that has smooth afghans and their pedigree (click pedigree below the picture) - pedigree of smooth afghans


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Thank you for that study DWH! I have some reading material now.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

R.Scott said:


> It is possible to get a smooth afghan from two coated afghan parents.
> Here's a website that has smooth afghans and their pedigree (click pedigree below the picture) - pedigree of smooth afghans


I prefer to use unbiased scientific studies to base my proof on, that website is basically a lot of anecdotal evidence without any real genetic information.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Speaking of coat...there was an interesting discussion on bearded Border Collies from regular (smooth or rough) coated parents. I can't remember 100% but I believe the owner of Lone said both parents looked like normal rough coats, no beard.

Here's an example of a wire coated BC. Both these pups are out of purebred ISDS (international sheepdog society) registered BCs










and her litter mate










It was said that one bearded collie (Turnbull's Blue) was registered with the ISDS on merit and even now more than 5 generations after Blue, bearded BCs are still popping up from time to time. 


BCs also come in a curly variety. This is one of Norm Sommer's dogs from Alberta. He has quite a few curly BCs!


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## R.Scott (Sep 18, 2011)

Corgi coat colors:

Pembroke Welsh corgi:
Red (with or without white markings) (with or without black mask)
Black (with or without white markings (rare to be fully black) )
Tri colored (red headed or black headed)
Sable
Bluies
Whitelies:








And of course, fluffies! (any color)

Cardigan Welsh Corgi:
Red (with or without white markings) (with or without masking)
Black (with or without white markings)
Tri colored
Sable
Blue Merle
Red Merle
Double Merle (can have health issues)
Whitelies
Also fluffies can happen in Cardigans as well -









Swedish Vallhunds:
Grey
Black and white
Red (with or without white markings)
Red/yellow (with or without white markings)
All white
Fluffies
Whitelies as well








All can have black masking as well


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## R.Scott (Sep 18, 2011)

Keechak said:


> I prefer to use unbiased scientific studies to base my proof on, that website is basically a lot of anecdotal evidence without any real genetic information.


Sheesh...you don't have to be so snarky about it. Just trying to help you in your curiosity.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

R.Scott said:


> Sheesh...you don't have to be so snarky about it. Just trying to help you in your curiosity.


sorry inflection is hard to convey in writting, snarkyness wasn't intended.


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## R.Scott (Sep 18, 2011)

Also, I think the dutch shepherd has some unusual coat types!
I believe they only come in brindle (from gold to silver)
But they also come in three types, smooth, curly and longhaired


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> BCs also come in a curly variety. This is one of Norm Sommer's dogs from Alberta. He has quite a few curly BCs!


How functional does he find that coat, do you know?

Coat type question.

Gatsby has the least functional coat of any dog I know. Gatsby is a clipped Miniature Schnauzer. I'm pretty sure dirt physically leaps off the ground to mat into his fur. My understanding is that this is because he only has undercoat as a result of being clipped.

Do wire Border Collies shed, or do they need to be stripped? What happens if you clip them? How is a BC wire coat different from a terrier wire coat, genotypicaly and phenotypically?

Is a clipped terrier coat different from a natural Poodle coat? What about a Curly Coated Retriever?


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> How functional does he find that coat, do you know?
> 
> Coat type question.
> 
> ...


I spent two months this spring looking for a long coated Collie type rescue young'un for my brother - an Alberta mixed farmer - so I have some perspective on this mostly cuz 99% of the dogs we saw in rescue were some kind of smooth coat mix (often lab) and my brother was absolute that they would not do.

First of all, the Border Collie above is not bearded that I can see - such as I believe it would have to be to be a 'wire'. It simply is a long coated Collie with wave or curl in its coat.

My brother favors this type of coat on a dog purely because we have a cold winter here. He farms in North Central Alberta, requires his dogs to live outside so that they remain climatized through the winter. If they are too soft (like my house dogs) they won't be able to work with him for the hours he puts in outside. In Alberta dairy or mixed farmers often face week long stretches of 4:30 a.m. (when they get out to milk) of minus 35 temperatures. Snow is on the ground Nov - April. He does provide a back porch with minimal heating for the coldest spells).

Texture makes a huge difference as to whether or not dirt sluffs off the coat or matts in. The same length or wave in one coat might cause matting, while in another it won't. My brother has had both, and I know other farmers that have had both as well. Coats that matt are not the preference but the dogs that matt get a shave down in April. As a youngster I actually used to help with this and the same sheers that were used on the sheep were used on the dogs.

I clearly have memory of many dogs that stunk to high heaven by this point in time but as they were outside dogs that wasn't usually even a consideration.

SOB


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

This thread is completely blowing my mind.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Keechak said:


> isn't that a little unethical?


If the parents are Aussies, why would the pup not be registerable just because it has a disqualifying fault? These colors exist in the breed. They aren't to the standard. But they are still purebred.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

It's important to note that BCs are more of a landrace than a breed in that theoretically you could register any dog as a BC if it can do the work. Also important is that beardies and BCs come from the same stock. Working beardies were originally very much like wire-haired BCs. I think Lone (the dog posted up there) can trace back to Turnbull Blue, though the beard skipped a generation or two. The beardie genes are in there. For ABCA purposes, she's a BC but for AKC purposes, she wouldn't be. 

Here's a bunch of the bearded BCS: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=5911


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Pawzk9 said:


> If the parents are Aussies, why would the pup not be registerable just because it has a disqualifying fault? These colors exist in the breed. They aren't to the standard. But they are still purebred.


I do agree they should be allowed to be be registered but I'm not sure how I feel about falsifying the dogs description as it could mess with breed pedigree history later on. I know in other breeds in AKC they have a "non standard colors" section so if a dog is born in an unacceptable color it can still be registered as that color. ASCA doesn't have that I don't think? do they?


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> It's important to note that BCs are more of a landrace than a breed in that theoretically you could register any dog as a BC if it can do the work. Also important is that beardies and BCs come from the same stock. Working beardies were originally very much like wire-haired BCs. I think Lone (the dog posted up there) can trace back to Turnbull Blue, though the beard skipped a generation or two. The beardie genes are in there. For ABCA purposes, she's a BC but for AKC purposes, she wouldn't be.
> 
> Here's a bunch of the bearded BCS: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=5911


Heehee, they're _Beardie_ Collies. XD


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

As far as papillons go, we don't have that many exciting mismarks.

Liver/Liver tri/liver sable










Blue: 










Solid white:










All the way to very dark:










We also have tons of sable varieties, 2 different tricolors, red/white, black and white and lemon. Lemon isn't that common but it's acceptable in the ring:










All credit goes to http://www.letitpapillons.com/

And I'm sure most know but we've got two ear varieties. 

Drop ear/Phalene:










Erect Ear/papillon:


DSC_0502 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Crantastic shared a picture of a blue eyed Pap with me once (it was from a breeder who had one such puppy in a litter). Very cool.

Cavaliers are boring in that they only come in 4 standard colours today, but decades ago, colours like black, black/white were acceptable in the show ring. Don't know why they removed those from the standard.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I like this coat pattern/color of the American English Coonhound


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> I like this coat pattern/color of the American English Coonhound


So do I.
I only just noticed that they exist like a month ago.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

My neighbor used to have one, she was just red ticked, old girl passed a way a few years ago.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> How functional does he find that coat, do you know?
> 
> Coat type question.
> 
> ...


The curly dog I posted is from a well known stock dog trialer and trainer. As far as I know, he hasn't said anything about it being more difficult to manage or easier to mat or collect burrs. He has quite a few curly dogs and uses them just like his regular roughs and smooths. The curls are not like that of a poodle or bichon, it's just like a regular rough coat but curlier. They brush the dogs just as they would the regular rough coats. 

I think wirehaired BCs shed. They're not really fully wirecoats and don't need to be stripped. I have no idea how the genetics work behind that other than there was one bearded collie in the bloodlines a long time ago.



spanielorbust said:


> First of all, the Border Collie above is not bearded that I can see - such as I believe it would have to be to be a 'wire'. It simply is a long coated Collie with wave or curl in its coat.


I think Raegan is referring to the other pics of BCs I posted with beards. Such as this one and not the picture of the curly coated example.









Also here's another example


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

> I think Lone (the dog posted up there) can trace back to Turnbull Blue, though the beard skipped a generation or two. The beardie genes are in there. For ABCA purposes, she's a BC but for AKC purposes, she wouldn't be.


I thought someone said Lone (it might've been a different dog) had Turnbbull Blue more than 5 generations back in their pedigree. I'm just wondering how that works.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

lucidity said:


> Crantastic shared a picture of a blue eyed Pap with me once (it was from a breeder who had one such puppy in a litter). Very cool.
> 
> Cavaliers are boring in that they only come in 4 standard colours today, but decades ago, colours like black, black/white were acceptable in the show ring. Don't know why they removed those from the standard.


I recently saw an ad for this blenheim with black girl ----










http://asheville.ebayclassifieds.co...iel-female-adult/?ad=13288169&msg=OUT_OF_AREA

It reminded me of the fact that it used to be acceptable to register these sable and whites as 'blenheim with black' . . . but I doubt that this girl is pure.

---------

Black still happens in the breed. Black and whites were accepted in the breed until 1973 when the standards were again limited to just the four colors. This dog had a tricolor dad and a ruby mom. Believe it or not the K gene that would enable the full black would have to be behind the ruby mom. K can be carried in ruby/blenheim lines for generation upon generation.










http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?16376-Cooper-quot-Our-Black-Cavalier-quot

These three are from a litter born in 2009:










http://www.cavalierboard.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?p=251841&highlight=ruffles#251841

Chocolate is still in the breed:










http://www.cochrancav.com/chocolate.html

And I've seen at least a few blue eyed 'rare' Cavalier pups for sale at different times. 

SOB


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Wow, those black and black/white dogs are stunning!! I wonder why they decided to disallow them in the show ring? Even that sable dog (blenheim with black) is really pretty. If it's true that Ann's son had a Papillon sire, I would expect that sables and black/white genes would be in the Cavalier gene pool.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

lucidity said:


> . . . . . I wonder why they decided to disallow them in the show ring? Even that sable dog (blenheim with black) is really pretty. If it's true that Ann's son had a Papillon sire, I would expect that sables and black/white genes would be in the Cavalier gene pool.


Many of the red/white dogs in paintings depicting the ancestral dogs to Cavaliers most likely are sable and white, and blacks were written of in history - but politics and breeding decided what they did for colors in Cavaliers and I can't see anything changing that today. I know other breeds have similar stories.

SOB


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Hmm, one site said something about how sables/chocolates were disallowed because of how it influences the blenheim colouring. I imagine it would be the same as Papillons--red/white is pretty rare and most that are registered as red/white are actually sable/white.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

lucidity said:


> Hmm, one site said something about how sables/chocolates were disallowed because of how it influences the blenheim colouring. I imagine it would be the same as Papillons--red/white is pretty rare and most that are registered as red/white are actually sable/white.


The b/b brown allele combination that causes chocolate on black coloring does not change the red phaomelanin color - but it does change the nose leather colors and most don't like the 'dudley' nose and eye rim color on the blenheims and rubys.

In regards to the red/white being rare - it is in Papillons. It is a little more common in Japanese chins, and is very common in Cockers (has been selected for) - all breeds that contributed to Cavaliers. What they have done in Cavaliers is selected for the genes (e/e along with - probably - intensifiers to create a more vibrant red) that produce true red/white. At the same time they have selected out the clear sable/whites by making that color a DQ. This would not be likely to happen in a natural population as it is the sable coloring that is dominant.

SOB


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

One of the reasons that I have a great appreciation for the Tibetan Spaniel breed is because of the huge variation in color that can be found.

Apparently judges in North America like to reward best Tibbies that are of the standard 'sable' coloring, so that is what is most commonly seen, but if you look about you can find wonderful colors.

From black to white (light cream) . . . 










http://miamichaela.wordpress.com/tag/tibetan-spaniel-personality/










http://www.avigdor.eu/annoucem.htm










http://www.pups4sale.com.au/tibetan_spaniel_pups.htm

. . . . and a'y' sables in red and silver and cream shades, and I believe a'w' wolf pattern as well, and black/tans and tris










http://www.art.com/products/p135093...paniels-sitting-on-rocks-and-looking-down.htm










http://www.swansford.co.uk/Tibetans/souska-apollo.htm










http://www.kennel-sommerlyst.dk/stamtavler-t.htm










http://www.kennel-sommerlyst.dk/genescolours.htm



















http://www.kennel-sommerlyst.dk/our_dogs.htm

SOB


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> I like this coat pattern/color of the American English Coonhound


This reminds me a LOT of my friends friends dog. She's got the ticking like that (bi colored ticking?) but she's also harlequin at the same time... she's the strangest dog I've ever seen. She doesn't have a very good picture of her, but I found the best one so maybe you guys can get somewhat of an idea.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

R.Scott said:


> Also, I think the dutch shepherd has some unusual coat types!
> I believe they only come in brindle (from gold to silver)
> But they also come in three types, smooth, curly and longhaired


Yes, they only come in brindles  There is no curly coated Dutch Shepherd, but I believe you meant the rough coated variant  It's the least well known variant, the longhair and shorthair Dutch Shepherds are way more popular, the rough coated version is rarely seen nowadays. I think, but that's my opinion, that fifty years from now, there won't be rough coats anymore due to lack of interest. It's not to be hoped, but I'm afraid it will.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

And I forgot about this:

White Puli










Different colored pulik


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

One of my favorite breeds (the English Cocker Spaniel...can you believe that?) comes in TWENTY THREE colors.

Solid Colors:
Black
Black & Tan
Liver
Liver & Tan
Red
Golden
Sable
Sable & Tan

Roan:
Blue Roan
Blue Roan & Tan
Liver Roan
Liver Roan & Tan
Orange Roan
Red Roan
Lemon Roan

Open marked (parti)/ticked:
Black & White
Liver & White
Lemon & White
Orange & White
Red & White
Sable & White
Black White & Tan
Liver White & Tan


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Keechak said:


> I do agree they should be allowed to be be registered but I'm not sure how I feel about falsifying the dogs description as it could mess with breed pedigree history later on. I know in other breeds in AKC they have a "non standard colors" section so if a dog is born in an unacceptable color it can still be registered as that color. ASCA doesn't have that I don't think? do they?


Last dog I registered, ASCA still required photographs. I've never actually registered a non-standard color dog, so I can't say the actual process. But there is no more reason NOT to register a dog with unusual coloration than a dog with any other disqualifing fault.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Pawzk9 said:


> Last dog I registered, ASCA still required photographs. I've never actually registered a non-standard color dog, so I can't say the actual process. But there is no more reason NOT to register a dog with unusual coloration than a dog with any other disqualifing fault.


I just called ASCA to ask what the procedure was on registering a non recognized color, and the representative I spoke to said I would choose whatever I consider the closest acceptable color as the code and then write in a "notation" the dogs real color. I don't have any issue with it then if that's something people can do when registering. (I told him this was all hypothetical as I am not registering any non standard colors myself lol)


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> I like this coat pattern/color of the American English Coonhound


Hallie has the same ticking as this dog. Most hounds that aren't flashy show dogs come with a variety of ticking. The brown ticking on the legs and black on the body, although heavy on this dog, is typical of many hunting hounds. I've seen Beagles very close to this dog, bassets can have a similar degree of ticking. It sucks breeders are trying to wheedle out ticked hounds to make them 'flashier' for the show ring. This dog is a exquisite example of any dog with ticking, it is absolutely gorgeous.


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## Phoenix Chase (Oct 31, 2011)

Some very beautiful color variations.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I think this is very cool:


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> I think this is very cool:


Take that pups colors and add a saddle, and that's my friends dog. Hopefully we can get a puppy play date here soon, and I'll make sure to grab some photos!


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

So glad i found this thread,Australian Shepherd:


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## Chi Nation (Feb 25, 2013)

I love this thread!! All of these pics are awesome!!!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I would love this brindle Poodle!

http://www.petiteparadisepoodles.com/IMAGES/POODLE COLORS/brindle2.jpg


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> So glad i found this thread,Australian Shepherd:


These photos are all from the Australian Shepherd Health and Genetics Institute website for those who are interested in reading about the above photos and other colors.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Keechak said:


> These photos are all from the Australian Shepherd Health and Genetics Institute website for those who are interested in reading about the above photos and other colors.


Those are some wicked looking colors!!


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Keechak said:


> These photos are all from the Australian Shepherd Health and Genetics Institute website for those who are interested in reading about the above photos and other colors.


 Very interesting site


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Fluffy Mastiff


OMG, I loooove this big fluffy guy!

There are so many absolutely gorgeous dogs in this thread. The colors are so unique, unusual and downright beautiful. The colors really have thrown me off on guessing some of the breeds though.

I want to see more! lol


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

https://www.google.com/search?q=sta...yOYbh0wH55YH4AQ&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=600


There is a poodle on this site that has tan points and a chocolate coat .... very interesting.


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## melundie (Aug 2, 2011)

Like Laurelin said way back at the beginning of this thread, Border Collies come in just about every color and coat combination. I've seen Black/White, Tri, Red Merle, Sable, Blue, Lilac, Saddle, Ticked, Brindle and combinations there of...with a smooth-, rough- or any coat length/texture in between. Including curly. Ace is one of the most unique BC's I've ever seen. He's a smooth coat Blue Merle with Tan Points. Everyone thinks he's an Aussie mix, but he's 100% BC.


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## Vicky88 (Jan 29, 2012)

Border collies come in alot of colors. Holly is my first BC and she is a black tri. Here's a photo of Holly with four other BC's. Holly is the Black Tri, then the dog next to her is a black and white, the dog at the back is a blue and white, then another black tri (smooth coat) and then a Lilac.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Very interesting BC colors 
Brindle Merle Border Collie:








A stunning Blue Merle


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

All of those dogs are very pretty! My favorite is the tricolor GSD.


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## Chi Nation (Feb 25, 2013)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> My favorite is the tricolor GSD.


Mine too! :rockon:


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

I had to take a triple take on that Rottweiler and Doberman with the white spots on the first page. Genetics are mind blowing.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

I know this thread is old, and has been dug up a few times, I just want to say that my mentor has a smooth Afghan. 3 Pups, she kept all of them, and one was smooth.


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