# dog food



## puppy girl (Oct 1, 2006)

Hello! I have a puppy, and she is a mix of a bichon and poodle. She is so cute. I feed her Kibbles and Mini Chunks, a cool kind of dog food. I have been feeding it to her for 3 months now, and yesterday she threw up and I saw dog food in her puke!! Of course, we are changing dog food, but which dog food and why did she puke all the sudden? please please reply.


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## puppy girl (Oct 1, 2006)

puppy girl said:


> Hello! I have a puppy, and she is a mix of a bichon and poodle. She is so cute. I feed her Kibbles and Mini Chunks, a cool kind of dog food. I have been feeding it to her for 3 months now, and yesterday she threw up and I saw dog food in her puke!! Of course, we are changing dog food, but which dog food and why did she puke all the sudden? please please reply.


Take time. Spoil your pup. have fun. 
***** All for the dogs*****


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## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

She may have just thrown up because she had an upset tummy. It may or may not have had anything to do with the food she is on. Our Lab puppy, Sadie, will occasionally throw up when she eats her food too fast. You pup might have just eating something else that she shouldn't have, and that caused her to throw up. I wouldn't be too concerned, unless her throwing up persists. If it does, take her to the vet. 

I would also say that the food you are feeding her isn't a very good quality food. It may be "popular" and from a "high rated" brand, but many foods from Purina, Iams, and the like aren't good food. If corn or meat-by-products is in the top ten ingredients, change her food! We used to feed our dogs a store brand and corn and meat-by-products were the first two ingredients. Then I wised up and saw that that food was BAD for them, so I switched them to Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul. It is a very good brand that uses all natural food. They didn't eat as much dog food, their coat was shinier, and their poop was much less stinky! 

I would look for a dog food that has all natural ingredients. Look for the ingredients to have pure chicken and other meats, potatoes, and stuff like that. If there is any kind of by-product or corn in it, don't get the food! 

Remember, when you are switching the food, do it gradually. Don't just change the food all at once or your pup will probably be throwing up and having loose poop. 

If your pup is under six months, feed her puppy food, but if she is over six months, you could start feeding her adult food. It won't hurt her to keep feeding her the puppy food, but definitally get her on adult food by one year of age.

Hope that helped!


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## Dulce (Oct 2, 2006)

She didn't throw up because of teh food. Dogs throw up. It happens. 

I wouldn't change the food. If you do, get something natural, and corn free. Wellness, Science Diet, Eukanuba, Innova, Innova EVO


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

I would change your food, not because she vomited, simply because it is a very poor quality food. 

Sciene Diet, Eukanuba, Pedigree, Purnia, Kibbles n Bites, Iams (and other foods that can be found in a grocery store) are all very popular, simply because they advertise. These are very low quailty, full of corn, fillers and by-products. Dogs can not digest corn, so corn=poop.

I suggest switching your pup to a high quality food (Canidae, Innova, Wellness, Pinnacle, Solid Gold, Natural Balance). If these are not an option, Nutro and Blue Buffalo are good too and can be found at Petsmart. 

Innova Evo is a wonderful food, but is not good for growing puppies. It is much to high in protein and can cause growth problems. I would advice feeding this ONLY after your dog is grown. This food is top of the line, no grains, fillers or by products, so its worth looking into for when your dog is grown. 

When looking for a food, check the ingredients, the first 5 are the most important. There should be no corn, and grains should not repeat (rice, rice flour etc are the same grain). Meats should be specified (no meat meal, should be chicken meal, lamb meal etc). Meats should preferably be in meal form. Stay away from foods that only have 1 meat listed in the top 5 ingredients (chicken, chicken meal is fine, but you dont want 4 grains as you top ingredients). 

Good luck with your pup!


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## puppy girl (Oct 1, 2006)

thank you dog lovers!!! I will choose a very good dog food now. Thanks!!


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## puppy girl (Oct 1, 2006)

Thanks again! we changed dog food to Beneful, please tell me if thats good for my 4 year old doggy.


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

I do NOT recommend Beneful. It is not a quality dog food at all!!

Here are the first 5 ingredients in the puppy version (Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols). Corn is the first ingredient, meaning this is what most of the food contains. Dogs can not digest corn, so this is a waste. Chicken by-products are just that, by-products, its the left over parts. Corn again (meaning there is WAY more corn then meat), wheat flour (filler, and a common allergen in dogs), animal fat (doesnt say what animal, could be anything).

The adult version has the same first 4 ingredients. 

This food IMO is terrible. And a waste. Most of the food will pass through (more poop). If you feed a high quality food, your dog will digest more of the food, making her healthier and she will produce much smaller stools


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## Dulce (Oct 2, 2006)

all4thedogs said:


> I do NOT recommend Beneful. It is not a quality dog food at all!!
> 
> Here are the first 5 ingredients in the puppy version (Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols). Corn is the first ingredient, meaning this is what most of the food contains. Dogs can not digest corn, so this is a waste. Chicken by-products are just that, by-products, its the left over parts. Corn again (meaning there is WAY more corn then meat), wheat flour (filler, and a common allergen in dogs), animal fat (doesnt say what animal, could be anything).
> 
> ...



Agreed  It's cheap food. It's not the quality I'd recommend...


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare? <--- this is a very informative website about the ingredients in dog food. It might help you make a decision. >^^;<


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## puppy girl (Oct 1, 2006)

Hmm... I will have to keep looking for a better dog food... I will tell you if I see something that might be a good dog food.

Have to keep looking!!!

Thanks Chettah! That might help...


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

Do you have a Petsmart near by? If so, Blue Buffalo is a good food that they carry.

Other good foods, but can sometimes be harder to find, here are their websites, most have a store locator.

Canidae All Natural, Human Grade, Holistic Pet Foods. Dog Food, Cat Food, Kitten Food, Dog Biscuits, & Canidae Platinum Diet
Solid Gold Solid Gold Health Food for Pets
Innova www.naturapet.com
California Natural www.naturapet.com
Chicken Soup Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul : Home

These are just a handful of good foods. Just be sure to read the ingredients in what ever you choose. A rule of thumb is you dont find high quality food at the grocery store (or Walmart etc). You will have to go to a pet store or farm store.

__________________________
This is a dog food rating system created to help people find a quality food. This is not concrete but to be used as a guide. This was created by Fredalina of the GDR.


Giving Dry Dog Food a Grade: 
Start with a grade of 100: 

For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points 


For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points 

If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points

For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source, subtract 5 points 

If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer’s rice", "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points


If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points 

If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points

If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points 

If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points

If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 2 points 

If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn’t allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points 

If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn’t allergic to beef), subtract 1 point

If it contains salt, subtract 1 point 

Extra Credit: 

If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points 


If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, add 5 points 

If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points 

If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points 

If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points

If the food contains barley, add 2 points 

If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points 

If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point 

If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point 

For every different specific animal protein source (other than the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "turkey" as 2 different sources), add 1 point


If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free, add 1 point



94-100+ = A
86-93 = B
78-85 = C
70-77 = D
<70 = F

*Some foods that have all ready been rated*:
A's Score
A+ Chicken Soup for the pet lovers soul 113
A+ Eagle Pack Holistic chicken 114
A+ Eagle Pack Holistic LG and Giant Breed Adlt 113
A+ Eagle Pack Natural 104
A+ Timberwolf Organics Lamb and Venison 136
A+ Solid Gold Bison 123
A+ Solid Gold Wolf King 109
A+ Solid Gold Hund N flocken 105
A+ Solid Gold Mmillennia 111
A+ Innova 117
A+ Natural Balance Duck and Potato 114
A+ Canidae 119
A+ Foundations Chicken and Vegetable 109
A+ Flint River Ranch Fish and Chips 109
A+ Wysong Synorgon 110
A+ Flint River Ranch Lamb, Millet and Rice 117
A+ Back to Basics 107

B's
B Eukanuba Natural Lamb and Rice 87

C's
C Nutro Lamb and Rice 85

D's
D Iams Lamb and Rice 74

F's
F Pedigree Adult Complete 14
F Ol'Roy 9
F Science Diet Chicken Adult Maintainance 45
F Purina Beniful original 23
*All Purina and Pro Plan foods rate as a F*
F Pro Plan Giant Breed Adult 41
F Pro Plan Performance 53
F Pro Plan Chicken and Rice
F Purina Dog chow
F Purina Large Breed 40
F Diamond Lamb and Rice 61
F Diamond Performance (formerly professional)
F Diamond Large Breed 55


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

I feed Eagle Pack. I do NOT RECOMMEND WELLNESS.

It's notorious for causing chronic, SEVERE diarrhea.

A lot of other good brands have been mentioned: Eagle Pack, Canidae, Fromm, Solid Gold, Innova... those are a few of the highest quality brands that I know of.

The dog food project website IS AMAZING! Her e-mail is on the website, and Mordy is more than willing to respond to e-mails. Compose a list of brands available in your area, and she'll help you make the best choice!


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## alundy (Aug 17, 2006)

The puking is nothing abnormal, sometimes it just happens. You saw dog food in it, because the dog eats dog food!

I would still change foods because I think kibble & mini chunks is a pretty low-quality food. Alot of filler and not a lot of nutrients. You will see less poop from giving better quality food too.

I like:

California Natural
Canidae
Nutro
Innova

...for starters.


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## midnightbluemamma (Sep 24, 2006)

i have two pups jack russel, and a pit, they get fed purina dry and wet mix, they love it.


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## Dulce (Oct 2, 2006)

midnightbluemamma said:


> i have two pups jack russel, and a pit, they get fed purina dry and wet mix, they love it.


Purina is an extremely low quality food. So is anything you can find at a grocery store.

Again, Timber Wolf, Innova, SD, Wellness, etc are great foods. Anything with fish in it is GREAT for their coats and skin. 

If your dog doesn't eat, he doesn't eat. He'll eat when he's hungry. Don't worry about the cat. It's a good learning experience for the dog. For me, if my dog refuses to eat, and the cat gets in her dish, she doesn't like when the cat does that, so she eats it! Your doggie will learn


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## LabLady101 (Jul 5, 2006)

Wow! I cannot believe all the hate I'm feeling in this conversation...Purina and Iams have been around for a long time. And do you know why they have been around for as long as they have? No, it's not because of advertising. No, it's not because many vets recommend their foods. It's because those companies have put in decades of research into animal nutrition and, therefore, MANY dogs have benefitted and done very well on their products.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily recommend their lower quality products such as Beneful, but Purina One and Pro Plan are decent quality foods and I'm not about the slam the results top quality breeders have gotten from these foods. Eukanuba and Iams are also not the worst foods on the market and are of decent quality.

Did anyone besides me notice that the list that was posted favored high priced foods? Well, I did and, to tell you the truth, I could not truthfully recommend any of those top foods as I don't know of any top quality breeder who has gotten decent results out of their dogs from them. In fact, I have heard just the opposite. Now how great are those "top rated", high priced foods? Not worth a cent in my book! Besides, that website is based purely on one person's opinion and it's never good to choose a food for your dog based solely off of another's opinion.

My dogs, like typical Labradors, do best with what most of those here would call a "low" quality food (although I would say it's middle of the road and decent- much like Pro Plan). I have already heard too many horror stories (from top quality breeders) about those "higher" quality foods and how they destroyed their dogs' proper Labrador coats (Labradors are not supposed to have shiny, slick coats. A proper Labrador coat should be somewhat dull, short, coarse, and thick). It took them at least a year or two to get their dogs back into showring condition! 

My motto is feed what works best for your dog regardless of how others feel about it. If you do that, you're doing pretty good by your dog.

Darcy


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## Pitbull (Sep 24, 2006)

LabLady101 said:


> Wow! I cannot believe all the hate I'm feeling in this conversation...Purina and Iams have been around for a long time. And do you know why they have been around for as long as they have? No, it's not because of advertising. No, it's not because many vets recommend their foods. It's because those companies have put in decades of research into animal nutrition and, therefore, MANY dogs have benefitted and done very well on their products.
> 
> Now, don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily recommend their lower quality products such as Beneful, but Purina One and Pro Plan are decent quality foods and I'm not about the slam the results top quality breeders have gotten from these foods. Eukanuba and Iams are also not the worst foods on the market and are of decent quality.
> 
> ...


 
Decades of research? These companies you mentioned are ****...their main ingredients include corn and byproducts for crying out loud...how is that possibly beneficial or even slightly healthy to your dog? Just because they have been around does not mean that they know what they are making....they are a multi billion dollar company BECAUSE of their advertising (including through vets)...more and more people are realizing how low quality their food really is and ARE SWITCHING...Eukanuba and Iams are also not the worst foods on the market and are of decent quality? According to who and what research? Its scientifically proven that many of the ingredients listed in IAMS foods are hazardous/not beneficial to your pets health...

Normally if I saw a post like yours, I wouldn't say anything..but the fact that you are giving people false information about low vs high quality foods is unfair and I had to step in and say something...

The dog food project website is not based on one person's opinion...its actually based on ALOT of research done by this person...I have spoken with her on many occassions...

You need to do your research on the difference between the foods mentioned as high quality, and the foods that you obviously support as being just fine for our pets....see the JUNK ingredients..see the CHEMICALS and loads of crap being put into foods such as IAMS or EUKANEUBA or PEDIGREE or (tons of others I can list).

Your so called experience with breeders who supposedly don't deal with high quality foods doesn't say much...I know tons of great breeders that feed high quality kibble or a raw diet and would completely disagree with you...so your statement isn't very viable...


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

Also about price. Have you priced Eukanuba or Iams, they arent cheap, ESPECIALLY for the ingredient list. 

Canidae (VERY high quality) is $32 for 40lbs, Chicken Soup $26/35lbs. Both foods have NO by-products, or CORN. 

Just because you feed junk, doesnt mean you have to post false information. Yes, many breeders feed Purina, Iams etc, but many feed Ol'Roy too (please tell me you dont consider Ol' Roy a good food). My vet pushes Science Diet, why? Because he gets major kick backs from them, as do many other vets in this country. Do you know, your vet only took 1-2 food related classes? And that was YEARS ago. 

You can NOT say that the big companies dont get most of their customers from advertising. Thats why they do it! If they werent getting their $ worth, they wouldnt bother, and advertising isnt cheap. 

Notice that the higher quality foods dont have to advertise and still sell the food? Its because of the performance of the food. Dogs are healthier.


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## LabLady101 (Jul 5, 2006)

Pitbull said:


> Decades of research? These companies you mentioned are S H I T...their main ingredients include corn and byproducts for crying out loud...how is that possibly beneficial or even slightly healthy to your dog? Just because they have been around does not mean that they know what they are making....they are a multi billion dollar company BECAUSE of their advertising (including through vets)...more and more people are realizing how low quality their food really is and ARE SWITCHING...Eukanuba and Iams are also not the worst foods on the market and are of decent quality? According to who and what research? Its scientifically proven that many of the ingredients listed in IAMS foods are hazardous/not beneficial to your pets health...
> 
> Normally if I saw a post like yours, I wouldn't say anything..but the fact that you are giving people false information about low vs high quality foods is unfair and I had to step in and say something...
> 
> ...


Excuse me???? How long have you been doing research in animal nutrition? From your post above, my guess would be not very long!

You know little to nothing if all you can say is by-products and corn are junk. By-Products are actually the parts that would be eaten first by your dog if the prey were real, and they are, in fact, very nutritious. The ill feelings for by-products is just a stigma placed on them by humans who do not consume those products themselves and so then place those feelings on their dogs.

Corn, in fact, can also be nutritious if used correctly. Your dog does actually require a certain amount of carbohydrates in their diet- whether you choose to believe that or not. Corn, if finely ground, can be an excellent source of omega-6 fatty acids- the stuff that helps keep your dogs coat and skin healthy.

I did not say that I support Iams/Eukanuba and Purina. I said that they have been doing extensive research in animal nutrition for decades- which they have! Therefore, they do deserve a little of your respect. You may even owe Iams or Purina your dog's life someday if they ever become extremely ill. Iams and Purina have also been doing extensive health studies for decades. Can you name any other company that has dedicated so much to animal health and nutrition? My guess is not. So, before you go off on a tangent saying that Iams and Purina products are junk and outright hazardous, maybe it is you who has to put in more hours of research- and then certainly you will never be able to match the number of hours, days, weeks, months, and years that Iams and Purina has.

How long has your dog food company being doing extensive research in these areas? Or did they just steal their research studies from Iams and Purina? Do you honestly think that your dog food company did all of its own research to come up with their formula? Even I have to be honest with myself (because I do not feed an Iams or Purina product- despite what you may think) and say no. 

Also, you may have talked to the owner of that website, but it still does not change the fact that the website is still based on one's opinion. So she can paste and copy ingredients, is that supposed to make the whole website factual? I don't think so. Actually, I could do the same thing. Would that make my website factual? No. It would be my opinion and I would not expect anyone to doing anything more than take it with a grain of salt.

One last thing, there was nothing in my post that constituted false information. I would never intentionally do that. However, there obviously was plenty in yours (for the reasons stated above). A few words for the wise, before you go trying to clean off someone else's front porch, perhaps you should clean off your own.

Darcy


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Ok everyone, lets play nice. Make your point, state the facts the best you can, and move on. Making this topic personal isn't going anywhere. We're all intelligent enough to make our own decisions, and to talk to people who don't have opinions. Give us a chance to draw our own conclusions. Thank you.


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## alundy (Aug 17, 2006)

I don't spend much time looking at websites that rate dog foods, I just look at the back of the bag and read the ingredients list. In my opinion, that is the only factual section on the bag - despite all the nice photos of chicken and vegetables they may show on the front cover!

I think companies like Purina and Iams have been around for decades because they charge a decent buck for really cheap food - huge profit margin. I won't argue that dogs benefit from carbohydrates, but I know corn is not the right choice. Many dogs have trouble digesting it.

And no one can tell me that by-products - feet, beaks, tumours, etc - are a better choice as opposed to real chicken/lamb/fish. 

I think some of the big name companies like Purina have started to see more people switch to high quality foods, and are finally coming around and putting out some food with real ingredients to get their customer base back. So maybe we will start to see some improvements coming from them. 

I like companies like Natura, Canidae, etc that don't need to advertise - their product speaks for itself.


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

Well said aludy!


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## LabLady101 (Jul 5, 2006)

alundy said:


> I don't spend much time looking at websites that rate dog foods, I just look at the back of the bag and read the ingredients list. In my opinion, that is the only factual section on the bag - despite all the nice photos of chicken and vegetables they may show on the front cover!
> 
> I think companies like Purina and Iams have been around for decades because they charge a decent buck for really cheap food - huge profit margin. I won't argue that dogs benefit from carbohydrates, but I know corn is not the right choice. Many dogs have trouble digesting it.
> 
> ...


Just for the record, I don't deny that most Purina and Iams/Eukanuba products are priced higher than they should be for the quality and they do make quite a profit margin for it. I'm just saying that most of those dollars do go towards something that is beneficial to animals and are not just lining some CEO's pocket.

I would never say that by-products are better than actual meat or meat meal. There should always be a named meat or meat meal as the first ingredient. However, I don't see anything wrong with by-product meals as a support protein source. Also, by-products, by law, cannot contain tumors, feathers, etc. In some foods feet and beak may be contained, but that is most likely very low grade foods like Ol' Roy. Decent quality foods such as Iams, Eukanuba, Purina One, and Purina Pro Plan do not contain beaks or feet. They only contain organs, intestines, and skin.

As far as Corn goes, if it is used correctly and finely ground, it is actually highly digestible. And, in reality and despite what most people think, there are actually very, very few cases of dogs being allergic to corn. Most often the culprit is either A) a protein source (which is why I prefer to feed my dogs a single protein diet, namely Chicken, so my options are wide open as far as an alternative protein source) or B) something else in the food- a preservative, wheat, soy, perhaps even things such as beet pulp or egg product. These allergies are by far the most common. All that said, there are many foods- again mainly cheap brands and extremely low quality products- that do use Corn incorrectly and as a cheap filler. These are the foods that use Corn as the first ingredient. Foods such as Ol' Roy, Beneful, Gravy Train, Kibbles 'N Bits, Science Diet (most), and Dog/Puppy Chow all fall into the category of using corn incorrectly.

Also, most of those "higher" quality foods may not need to advertise, but it doesn't change the fact that they are only popular at the moment because they feed a fad. I bet no one ever thinks about how some of these other companies are just putting ingredients in their food because it's what the public wants to see and not what is necessarily healthy for your dog. Canidae and Innova, for instance, both have MULTIPLE protein sources. If almost every protein source is in the food you are currently feeding, what will you do if your dog should develop a meat allergy? You don't have many options left for a novel or alternative protein source. So, these formulas look good on paper, but there are still some dogs do not do well on them. This is why I'm a bit skeptical when it comes to these products.

I hope this helps clear up a few things about my thinking,
Darcy


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## DC Whittier (Sep 30, 2006)

I have used the following "cheap" dry dog foods with satisfactory results

1.Garth Merricks Beef n More

2.Maxximum Nutrition Lamb & Rice(equivalent to purina one)

Occasionally,I may top the kibble with canned salmon or raw egg,with or without canned food


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

LabLady101 said:


> Canidae and Innova, for instance, both have MULTIPLE protein sources. If almost every protein source is in the food you are currently feeding, what will you do if your dog should develop a meat allergy? You don't have many options left for a novel or alternative protein source. Darcy


Im am speaking about Canidae only, as I have not researched Innova's formulas. Canidae's All Life Stages does have multiple protein sources, but they also carry a chicken line, and a lamb line. If your dog has allergies, these are the foods you should go with, not the All life stages. 

Anytime my German Shepherd is fed anything with corn in it (Eukanuba, Iams, Purina One etc), his poop looks grainy, it actually looks like you can see the pieces of grain in his stool. Is it actualy grain, I have no idea, but it ONLY happends on foods with corn in them. He has also never had a firm stool on a food that contains corn. Its more cow pattyish. He doesnt have a problem with allergies (no itching, hairloss, excessive licking etc), only soft stools, when on what I consider a lower quality food. My conclusion is that he (MY DOG) is not digesting the corn (or other grain). 

We currently feed Canidae, and his stools are amazing. (To gross everyone out), they are very small, firm, and turn white and dusty in a few days. No yard pick up needed. This is great when you have 2 XL dogs. This is also the first time in my GSDs life that he is a good weight, because he actually eats his food. And Canidae is high in calories.

My Dad feed his Lab, Gravy Train her entire life (I know this is lower quality then the foods you are defending), at 9yrs old, she has a terrible shoulder, fatty tumors all over her, no energy etc. Is it food related? I have no proof, but I believe it is at least partially. All those chemicals to preserve, and such, can not be good for the body. And I believe cause cancer


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

all4thedogs said:


> Also about price. Have you priced Eukanuba or Iams, they arent cheap, ESPECIALLY for the ingredient list.
> 
> Canidae (VERY high quality) is $32 for 40lbs, Chicken Soup $26/35lbs. Both foods have NO by-products, or CORN.
> 
> ...


first, let me say, i had my dogs on Canidae for almost five mo and the only good it did was help my older female to lose the weight that she needed to lose.......however, so did my other 2 that didn't need to lose weight (they had to be upped to 2x the amount just to maintain their weight) not to mention the fact that their coats went to h*##, they were pooping 2x the amount, and their energy level was down (and for Border Collies that's saying alot).....after they had been on it for the (almost) 5 mo i took them all in for their annual check up and my vet, who has known these dogs since my oldest (10) was a wee bairn, asked me what the h*## happened to them....then told me to put them back on the Pro Plan and leave them there....this is from a vet that attends nutrition seminars at least 2x a yr (he or his wife, also a vet)......so you can't tell me that he doesn't have any idea of what's good and bad.......

yes, i will admit that Purina has bad foods out there, but i don't believe that the Pro Plan or Pur. One are in that field......and face it folks, the majority of your people that love dogs just can't afford to feed foods that cost more than their own food does for a mo.....so w/ these ones they can get a good quality food for a price they can afford.......and when people go slamming others for feeding their dogs to the best of their ability, i think it's wrong.....i suppose next those same people are going to be telling others that they shouldn't have dogs b/c they can't afford $50 a 35# bag.....sorry, doesn't wash in my book


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

I don't really think this debate is about cost or who can and can't afford x brand over z brand. At least I hope it's not...I hope it's about what we understand is best for our dogs. I'm sure many of us have experimented with different dog foods for all the reasons mentioned, and we've found a formula that works best for our dogs...be it our preference on the ingredients, our dog's coat texture, energy level, or poop composition. I don't think any of us can predict with certainty that if so and so feeds brand x, and their dog is otherwise perfectly happy and healthy, we should argue that brand z will still be better. If it ain't broke, why fix it, right? Obviously if someone knows something about brand x that unarguably should be brought to so and so's attention, that's important. For example, someone told me that when I was feeding Nutro Ultra, that it contained menadione, and that menadione was know to cause some forms of cancer. With a little research I made the judgement call that I didn't want to feed Elsa food that contained menadione...although the risks seemed very small and Elsa had otherwise been doing fine with Nutro Ultra. Information like this is what I find to be useful in this debate. Arguments like, well my brand is affordable and my dog is doing great...just doesn't do anything for me. Just as someone who says, well I wanted the best for my dog so I went with a premium food and he's doing wonderful. That's nice, and how does that make it the best food? I think with any food you'll find a dog or many that will perform well. Examples of this are great, but not very informative. Just as the argument that so and so's dog died early and he fed only brand x...there must be a correlation. Not really, no one can prove that...unless you have research to quantify your statements. And I guess this is my plea...maybe the debate should be less of a debate, and more informative. I don't know about you, but I'd rather learn about menadione than read about how wonderful so and so's poo looks. I think I'm like most people, I want to know the why's. I hope I'm making sense because I feel like I'm fighting with my words here. And for those of you attempting to do this, thank you. And just for the record, I write this post based on the feeling I have after reading all the posts...it's not a direct response or attack on anyone specific. Thanks for the time.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

tirluc said:


> first, let me say, i had my dogs on Canidae for almost five mo and the only good it did was help my older female to lose the weight that she needed to lose.......however, so did my other 2 that didn't need to lose weight (they had to be upped to 2x the amount just to maintain their weight) not to mention the fact that their coats went to h*##, they were pooping 2x the amount, and their energy level was down (and for Border Collies that's saying alot).....


Every dog is going to do differently on every food, even the high quality ones. My two thrive on Canidae. This is why when I recommend foods, I recommend an entire list, and not just one. I've heard of dogs doing horrible, even on Innova, which is supposed to be the best kibble out there.

In my case, like many others, my older dog is highly allergic to corn. I have to avoid everything containing corn. Corn is also one of the top allergens out there for dogs right now (beef being #1 I believe).


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## LabLady101 (Jul 5, 2006)

Food allergies are misdiagnosed all the time. Many times, someone will automatically jump to the conclusion of a Corn allergy, when, in fact, it is very likely something else that is common to the different foods but is not necessarily obvious. There are lots of ingredients that are common amongst different dog foods that would fit into this category. It would definately be interesting to see how many cases, where Corn is supposedly the named allergy, are misdiagnosed. I bet the number would be astounding! I bet somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% of cases are misdiagnosed- and that, of course, would be if the cases were actually diagnosed by a liscenced Veterinarian in the first place.

All that being said, I am not necessarily saying that is the case with anyone's dogs- only you and your vet would know that. However, it is a very common misconception that Corn is a top allergen, when, in reality, there are actually very, very few correctly diagnosed cases of it. Beef, soy, wheat, and even preservatives are by far way more common allergens than corn.

Whether anyone chooses (and that's what it ultimately comes down to: a personal choice- same goes for by-products) to believe that Corn is not necessarily a horrible thing for your dog, is your choice.  You choose. But, no matter whether you choose to believe or not, facts are that Corn and By-Products when used correctly can be a beneficial part of your dog's diet.

I rest my case.

tirluc, that was the Canidae experience of one of the breeders I had mentioned previously. Her dogs' coats fell out in clumps, their poops were huge and plentiful, and she had to feed twice as much to even attempt to maintain them. Needless to say, it took her over a year after switching to a different food to get them back into show condition! The same thing happened to her when Nutro changed their formula a few years back. But, the terrible thing about Nutro is that, even though there was a very obvious change in ingredients (you could tell by comparing old and new labels), the company, when asked about the change, denied and even still denies there was any change at all. How horrible is that?!

Darcy


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I said "one of the top allergens," not "the top allergen" lol... I also never said what number it is, because I honestly don't know, and realize there are many others out there... I am just going by observation, reading, and what certified nutritionists have said.


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## cstrick (Aug 15, 2006)

*Dog Food*

Hi, I had never thought that what I was giving my dog was not good. I have been feeding her Iam's since she was ours. I thought it was a good dog food. Thanks for the link to the web site on ingrediants. I now need to get another food for her Sheba is 1 yr and 3 months old , a rotty. Thanks


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## LabLady101 (Jul 5, 2006)

cstrick said:


> Hi, I had never thought that what I was giving my dog was not good. I have been feeding her Iam's since she was ours. I thought it was a good dog food. Thanks for the link to the web site on ingrediants. I now need to get another food for her Sheba is 1 yr and 3 months old , a rotty. Thanks


cstrick, I'm sorry you have gotten so confused. Truth of the matter is finding the right food can be confusing. However, once you find that food that works really well for your dog, don't change regardless of what others think of it.

Iams is not a horrible food. It is a quality product, despite what many think. Is there better? Yes. Is there worse? Definately. It just depends on how well your dog does on it. If Sheba is doing great on it (i.e. no gas, good firm poops, clear eyes & ears, good coat, etc.) then I wouldn't worry about switching. If that isn't the case, then looking for a different food is in order. I just wouldn't let others opinions dictate what I feed.

Good luck!


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## broadwaybones (Jun 11, 2007)

LabLady101 said:


> Wow! I cannot believe all the hate I'm feeling in this conversation...Purina and Iams have been around for a long time. And do you know why they have been around for as long as they have? No, it's not because of advertising. No, it's not because many vets recommend their foods. It's because those companies have put in decades of research into animal nutrition and, therefore, MANY dogs have benefitted and done very well on their products.
> 
> Now, don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily recommend their lower quality products such as Beneful, but Purina One and Pro Plan are decent quality foods and I'm not about the slam the results top quality breeders have gotten from these foods. Eukanuba and Iams are also not the worst foods on the market and are of decent quality.
> 
> ...


Yes, some top quality breeders do use Purina, but they also get discounts as well! I would not feed my dog corn fillers, meat by products and cancer causing chemicals for the sake of a breeders choice or a vets opinion, for they also get kick backs on these products. I suggest that owners research what a dog should and should not eat through vetrinarian nutritional research and go from what they learn from that. Each dog breed has different nutritional needs, and what can negatively effect one dog may not negatively effect another. Ingredients (fillers) that I have research and have confirmed by vets that cause adverse reactions in canines are corn, chicken, soy, wheat, and dairy. These are not all of them but they are the usual culprits to excess weight gain, and allergies! Sounds like Purina needs to work on the quality of their products.



LabLady101 said:


> Excuse me???? How long have you been doing research in animal nutrition? From your post above, my guess would be not very long!
> 
> You know little to nothing if all you can say is by-products and corn are junk. By-Products are actually the parts that would be eaten first by your dog if the prey were real, and they are, in fact, very nutritious. The ill feelings for by-products is just a stigma placed on them by humans who do not consume those products themselves and so then place those feelings on their dogs.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to do this .... but, you are wrong. If you have studied vet nutrition you would know that wild dogs eat the internal organs first. This is also there source of grain products! Not that they will eat corn.. but while eating the stomach of the prey they ingest the grain that their preyhad eaten before being killed. Another correction.. by products are in no way healthy for the dog to eat. These by-products consist of not only heads, feet and bills, but also tumors and other excess growths. These are not illegal to use according to the AAFCO. I have spent almost six months studying canine nutrition. Lastly, corn is not rich in Omega 6 fatty acids. It is true that some plant products like walnuts and flaxseed are high in Omega 6 .....However,corn is not! I feel bad having to correct you again. I would suggest you do some further research on canine nutrition because it sounds like you do care. However, you have been misinformed.


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## katewill (Jun 19, 2007)

For all the dog lovers out there,try out Pedigree it works!!!!!!!! 

katewill  


http://allendonald.wordpress.com/2007/05/05/hello-world/


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## QuietStorm (Jun 16, 2007)

LabLady101 said:


> I would never say that by-products are better than actual meat or meat meal. ... Decent quality foods such as Iams, Eukanuba, Purina One, and Purina Pro Plan do not contain beaks or feet. They only contain organs, intestines, and skin.


can you support this? (i'm not arguing - just inquiring. it's different that what i understand by products to be . . . i'm looking for something proven so i can make responsible decisions for my fur babies)

katie


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## broadwaybones (Jun 11, 2007)

This is not true. The AAFCO has many guidelines that a pet food makers must abide by. One being proper description of ingredients by guideline terminology. Iams contain Chicken by-product meal which is according to strict regulations would consist of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, BUT exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. It also contain meat meal (unspecified meat is never a good idea) Meat meal consists of the rendered product from *mammal* tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as my occur unavoidably in good processing practices..." The second ingredient in Iams is corn. No thanks!
This information comes directly from the AAFCO guidelines.


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## marley334 (Dec 10, 2006)

wow everyone!! i am on purina now so i dont know what to change to... Pedigree?


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## ToysHaveMyHeart (May 9, 2007)

LOL...I knew this post looked oddly familiar...

TO every else wanting to state what they think or argue, a few of the people here are probably long gone by now, as this post was started in 2006...although the most recent posts are still valid, just be sure to pay attention to the dates.


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