# Border Collie- Blue Merle or Red Merle Debate??



## LaceyBlue (Apr 16, 2014)

Hi,

I love Border Collies, Particularily merles. As a rule I prefer blue merles but some red merles have been the exception to that rule ! I just love them in general but my question is this.

Do YOU prefer Blue Merle or Red Merle?

Thankyou

LaceyBlue


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## Chichan (Apr 1, 2014)

I guess I like the Blue merle better, but I like the slate merle even better than that  .


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I like all BC's, though I sometimes "talk smack" about them (LOL) its a classic example of having a "playground crush" on them. the long coated ones are my fave


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

That's a tricky one. I'm prone to normally like red merle better in breeds like ACDs, houlas, and danes but for BC, I actually prefer blue.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I kind of want a BC but their tendency towards temperament problems (shyness, OCD etc ...) kind of scares me away as someone who is used to the rock solid ACD temperament.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

d_ray said:


> That's a tricky one. I'm prone to normally like red merle better in breeds like ACDs, houlas, and danes but for BC, I actually prefer blue.


ACDS aren't merle


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Adjecyca1 said:


> ACDS aren't merle


My bad. I always confuse merle and ticking


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm not a big merle fan to be honest though most my favorite breeds come in merle. I like tricolor and black and white and sable much better.

I don't like red merle at all. Blue is growing on me sort of but still not a fan of red merle. There is a VERY high likelihood that Nextdog will be blue merle just because of the breed/lines so I'd better get to liking it! LOL


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

For merle I like the black merle seen in Mudi's or blue merle with black patches seen in a few different breeds. Dapple(harlequin) coats on Beaucerons look nice as well.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I am not a huge merle fan in general, but I prefer red merle to blue.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

In Border Collies, I prefer blue merles. In Aussies.. I love the red merles with blue eyes!


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Blue Merle..


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

In my Aussies I prefer the reds in both tri and Merle. BCs though I don't actually like the Merle's at all.


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## LaceyBlue (Apr 16, 2014)

There is such a difference in opinions, I love it !


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## LaceyBlue (Apr 16, 2014)

I adore papillions. Are they good at Agility ? As that is what I compete in.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

My 10 year old is a very good agility dog. We did not start till she was 8 years old but we have been having a lot of fun competing. After border collies and shelties, they're the most common breed to make the US world team. My girl is a blast and very easy to train. She would have been great had we started younger.

There's some really great agility paps out there. Dawn and Puzzle, Andrea Samuels and her crew, and EZ(handler is escaping me). All really really good.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Count me in on not being a fan of merle. If I had to pick one I'd choose red. But I am a fan of Red Bi (tri's don't thrill me like bi's do but they are still nice) dogs, simplicity.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I love the look of a merle, but the increased chance of health problems kind of makes me wary of owning one ... they are pretty though and I love to look at them! as far as BCs go if I was going to own one, it would either be a red and white one, or black and white.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

There is no known increased risk for health problems in dogs with one copy of the Merle gene.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

eh, I don't really favour one "colour" of merle over another, for me its more about pattern and what colours are with the merle. so for example I find straight merle(no white or tan) of any colour really unattractive, add just tan points to the merle and no matter the colour I find that even less attractive, but any colour or pattern of merle paired with white trim and tan points I find very attractive. 

for BC examples:

this is Happys sire, a red merle









I think his colouring is "ok" looking, I don't love it, but I don't find it unattractive either

this is Happy's littermate









I think she is pretty, I don't love the pattern of her merle, but the amount of white trim she has makes up for it lol 

this is her older(but full) sister









I don't find that attractive at all, she's too dark, with not enough white trim to balance it out. 

certain things will "forgive" an aspect I don't normally like lol, so Happy has a niece who is darker merle like the dog pictured above, and not a lot of white trim, and no tan, BUT she has a giant black patch over her face, so that forgives everything else and I find her really pretty lol


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> eh, I don't really favour one "colour" of merle over another, for me its more about pattern and what colours are with the merle. so for example I find straight merle(no white or tan) of any colour really unattractive, add just tan points to the merle and no matter the colour I find that even less attractive, but any colour or pattern of merle paired with white trim and tan points I find very attractive.
> 
> for BC examples:
> 
> ...


I know this has nothing to do with anything, but what is the purpose of those wraps around that dog's ffeet? just curious.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

> I know this has nothing to do with anything, but what is the purpose of those wraps around that dog's ffeet? just curious


the mats and box can tear up a dogs stopper pads if they run and/or hit the box a certain way, and some dogs tear up there main pads running on the mats. it varies dog to dog, so some dogs will have wraps over the front stoppers, some have no wraps, some have wraps on all 4 feet etc..


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

I prefer Blue Merle's.I love Bi Blue Shelties.










I love Black Merle's









I also love Brindle Merle's(?)


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Foresthund said:


> For merle I like the black merle seen in Mudi's or blue merle with black patches seen in a few different breeds. Dapple(harlequin) coats on Beaucerons look nice as well.


I'm curious what color merle you would call my Hawk? In Aussies we call any black dog with the merling gene a "Blue Merle" doesn't matter how much merling or how dark or light the merling is.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> I prefer Blue Merle's.I love Bi Blue Shelties.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ooh I do love that brindle merle on that dog.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Keechak said:


> I'm curious what color merle you would call my Hawk? In Aussies we call any black dog with the merling gene a "Blue Merle" doesn't matter how much merling or how dark or light the merling is.


Hmm,I`m not exactly a color expert. To me the dog seems like a blue merle with very large black splotches,but could easily be called a black merle as well. When I think black merle I think of a dog more like this but technicalities can be confusing.
Beautiful dog btw,I do like the darker merles like that.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Josefina would be the kind to tear her feet up lol, but I don't know if she would wear wraps  , the silly thing.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Black merle and blue merle are the same thing genetically. It's just a breed specific color term. Kind of like how there are _chocolate_ labs but _liver_ german shorthairs but_ red_ border collies.... they are all the same color genetically. Black merle is the mudi term for what everyone else in the world calls blue merle. Mudi have their own name for all the colors though- brown (liver), gray-brown (isabella), black merle (blue merle),gray merle (slate merle), brown merle (red merle), graybrown merle (lilac or isabella merle), etc. Black merle actually makes more sense really since it is black being merled. 

In most breeds a diluted black dog (blue) that is merled is called a slate merle.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> I prefer Blue Merle's.I love Bi Blue Shelties.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of dog is that black Merle dog? It's beautiful!


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## WashingtonCowgirl (Mar 8, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> What kind of dog is that black Merle dog? It's beautiful!


 Its a Mudi


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> What kind of dog is that black Merle dog? It's beautiful!


A Mudi. I really hope to own a Mudi, one day.

http://www.mudi.us


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

I prefer both! I think I like blue a tiny bit more though.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Foresthund said:


> Hmm,I`m not exactly a color expert. To me the dog seems like a blue merle with very large black splotches,but could easily be called a black merle as well. When I think black merle I think of a dog more like this but technicalities can be confusing.
> Beautiful dog btw,I do like the darker merles like that.


You don't have to be a color expert to give an opinion 
If you want to talk facts, genetically he is a "Black dog with Merling, white trim, tan points, and e-mask"

So to you a dog with powder blue merling is a "Blue merle" and a dog with steel grey merling is a "Black merle"?


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I love the look of a merle, but the increased chance of health problems kind of makes me wary of owning one ... they are pretty though and I love to look at them! as far as BCs go if I was going to own one, it would either be a red and white one, or black and white.


There are no increased health risks for a dog that is heterozygous merle.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> There is no known increased risk for health problems in dogs with one copy of the Merle gene.


Perhaps not, but all dogs with blue pigment of any kind run more of a risk of problems like blindness and deafness, not just dogs with two copies.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

WashingtonCowgirl said:


> Its a Mudi


Well ... either way, its a very pretty dog!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Perhaps not, but all dogs with blue pigment of any kind run more of a risk of problems like blindness and deafness, not just dogs with two copies.


No,they don't. Blue merle dogs are not blue pigmented. This is a dog with blue pigment:










Regular blue merles have black pigment. Blue pigmented dogs may have issues with alopecia. Seems more common in some breeds than others. It does not affect eyes and hearing.

There are no known increased health risks for a dog with one copy of the merle gene. Double merles? Yes, they have significantly increased sight and hearing problems.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I don't care for Merle dogs much at all. The only one I do like belongs to Lo Baker who is an agility instructor up in NH. He is a blue merle BC...but he is more white than he is merle. I find him striking. Here's Tony (who is an incredible agility dog.)










Give me a traditional Black and White BC any day.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I keep crossing my fingers Next dog will be a tri or bicolor. But with one parent merle in both potential litters... I've got a50/50 chance. I end up thinking my dog is gorgeous no matter what though. Summer is one of my least favorite papillon colors (clear sable) and I think she's a pretty little thing.

I find build and markings matter most.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I am one who also finds that the patterns of the markings matter more than red vs blue. 

Given the choice in general I'd probably choose blue, but I'm picky with merle dogs on whether I like them or not in the first place.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I prefer definitely prefer blue merle, especially the darker dogs. I think the ones with fairly minimal white. There is a a blue merle Aussie girl in my agility class who I love - fairly dark, pattern isn't too busy, minimal white, and a nice amount of tan. I'm fairly picky about which merle dogs I prefer and like others have said, the markings matter more to me than blue vs red sometimes.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Perhaps not, but all dogs with blue pigment of any kind run more of a risk of problems like blindness and deafness, not just dogs with two copies.


I was really obsessive about this when I first got Ammy. White or merling does not mean the dog will be deaf, as there are plenty of white dogs who can hear. You can't actually see pigment, so it's impossible to "see" if a dog is deaf or not. A lack of pigment in the ear is what causes a dog to be deaf. So being white, or having a merle color doesn't really mean anything. There are plenty of solid colored dogs who are deaf. And there are plenty of white/merled dogs who are not deaf.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

I prefer the look of reds to blues overall, but there are some striking blues and some reds look "muddy" for lack of better word. I like the dark copper red vs the lighter red. I prefer solid red & white to merles though. Love red dogs.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I prefer blue merle dogs, they just look prettier to me. The reds don't do anything, they don't grab my attention unless I haven't seen that particular breed before. But a blue merle dog (any breed) will grab my attention straight away, they're just much better looking in my opinion.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I like the blue eyes on the blues, so striking!

I guess I am just being over paranoid about the health factors of merles, LOL.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm partial to tricolor border collies. ;P

When it comes to merle, I don't necessary prefer blue to red or red to blue. Whether I like the merle is more about the individual pattern. I prefer the dog's face to be less busy, and I love white patches breaking up merle.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I found this page pretty cool on coat colors : http://www.bordercollies.es/colors.html


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I found this page pretty cool on coat colors : http://www.bordercollies.es/colors.html


this is my fav, coat colour website
http://www.bordercolliemuseum.org/BCLooks/BC_Looks.html


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> I prefer blue merle dogs, they just look prettier to me. The reds don't do anything, they don't grab my attention unless I haven't seen that particular breed before. But a blue merle dog (any breed) will grab my attention straight away, they're just much better looking in my opinion.


I just have to agree with you here even though I'm partial to red dogs, be it Merle, tris, or bis there is something about a blue that I will spot a mile away. lol. Just striking dogs. 

I do agree with others though that patterns make a difference and I like lots of white on my red Merle's. Where blues can little white and I still find them gorgeous, reds though I need white or thy just look like someone else said muddy and dirty.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I love the look of merle dogs, but if I was going to own one, I would probably have a liver and white, or a black and white, or a black tri.


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