# Help - great pyrnees puppies fighting.



## aligee (Jun 24, 2012)

I adopted two 4 month old puppies several days ago. They are half Great Pyrenees... the other half is questionable, the shelter believed the other half was an Akbash.

Anyway, they have been randomly fighting... And not play fighting - Drawing blood. I thought this was supposed to be an extremely gentle breed? Clearly most sites do not mention that they fight for dominance.

I am in love with both of these boys and I cannot imagine getting rid of one. I have had many dogs before, but no strong breeds... so this is new to me.

I really don't want to have to separate them all the time, or when we are gone. Does anyone have any recommendations? I have been using positive energy to distract them before the fights start, but there is still at least one good fight a night (but they are licking each others faces a few minutes later)... :Cry:

They have been socialized well and have zero problems with other dogs or when they are walking together/playing outside. It is only when they are inside.

ANY suggestions!! I am worried for my two boys!!!!!!!!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

aligee said:


> I adopted two 4 month old puppies several days ago. They are half Great Pyrenees... the other half is questionable, the shelter believed the other half was an Akbash.
> 
> Anyway, they have been randomly fighting... And not play fighting - Drawing blood. I thought this was supposed to be an extremely gentle breed? Clearly most sites do not mention that they fight for dominance.
> 
> ...


Livestock guardian breeds do NOT do well with other dogs, as a general rule, particularly not dogs of the same sex. Including, and sometimes especially, siblings! It is important to remember that the functino of a LGD (pyrs and Akbash) are to protect the flock from other predators. Like coyotes, wolves, and *dogs*. They can do okay with other breeds if they're seen as part of the household/flock, but coming in together, at the same time - I'm far less sure. 

Some people can do very well raising siblings together - of some breeds. Frankly, I don't think I'd even ATTEMPT it with LGDs, especially not ones with the size and power your pups must have, and if they're fighting to the point of drawing blood... Gotta be honest. I'd rehome in a hot minute. If you won't/can't, then you need to contact a professional, and keep them separated in the meanwhile (crate and rotate). And if you won't do THAT, especially when you're not supervised? Be prepared to come home to a seriously injured or dead dog or dogs.


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## aligee (Jun 24, 2012)

This is extremely devastating news... I wish the shelter I got them from would have been educated enough to tell me this. I am VERY angry they didn't, actually. I am willing to do whatever it takes... I want what is best for them. But (being attached to them), I obviously want to try options before I give one away. If I keep them separated while away, is there any chance they will ever NOT fight while we are home and they are together? Will a lot of exercise help?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

aligee said:


> This is extremely devastating news... I wish the shelter I got them from would have been educated enough to tell me this. I am VERY angry they didn't, actually. I am willing to do whatever it takes... I want what is best for them. But (being attached to them), I obviously want to try options before I give one away. If I keep them separated while away, is there any chance they will ever NOT fight while we are home and they are together? Will a lot of exercise help?


I can't give you definite answers. I'm speaking from experience, research and a total lack of professional knowledge. I'm glad you're willing to do work and I'm sorry the shelter didn't tell you - though I wouldn't bet on them knowing, anyway 

Try reading this. It talks some about the problems with male/male Great Pyr pairings. The problem you have here isn't just the protectiveness, but that these are dogs who are independent, slightly less social, dominant (and I don't mean that in Cesar Millan Dominance Theory Crap) who don't like to back down. You also have dogs that are the *exact* same age, and if the other half is another of the LGDs - well, let's just say that pyrs tend to be the softest of the bunch, and they aren't soft dogs, by any means. (Read this for information on Akbash. (Please be aware, I'm just pulling links at random - a google search of your own would serve you well, and so would talking to that behaviourist)

Exercise may help wear them out and spend some time together getting along, but they're likely fighting at home because it's a territory thing. Training will help you maintain control of them. I'm really sorry you are in this situation, but if you are not prepared to not leave them unsupervised for *the rest of their lives*, even if they seem to be getting along right now, and are confident you can break up two giant breed dogs fighting, and are prepared to take risks to your safety that comes with that, I would absolutely bite the bullet now and rehome. These are young pups. What's going to happen when they're mature dogs. 

And to clarify: I do not believe these are bad dogs. These are just. Dogs that you shouldn't have in same-sex (particularly m-m) same-age, pairs. You just... have the worst possible combination going on, IN MY EXPERIENCE. Same sex, same age, giant-breed, protective, territorial, independent, stubborn, dogs, bred to be able to take on large wild predators.


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## Nuclear_Glitter (Jun 20, 2012)

As CptJack has said you're definitely in a very tough situation. 

I can completely understand your attachment to both of them, so your want to have it work out. I would recommend loads of exercise, lots of training, where they will get to the point of listening to you, no matter what, and getting them neutered when you can, and when it's right for them. 

Best of luck, as this is a very tough situation.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Quotes from those links: 
Akabash: Their natural dog-aggression makes them a good choice for livestock vulnerable to domestic dog attacks. 

Pyr: Same sex pairings of two male Great Pyrenees is sheer madness and will likely end in tragedy with expensive vet bills and heartache if the other dog refuses to submit to it, which is typically unlikely with two male Pyrs. For best results, avoid any same sex pairings of any dominant or potentially dominant breed. 

But again with google links. You need to do a lot of research with what kind of dogs you actually have, keeping the dogs separated in the meantime, talk to a professional and then take it from there. 

/and I will stop spamming you now.


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## aligee (Jun 24, 2012)

As painful as it is to think of giving one back, I appreciate your honesty. It is extremely unfortunate that the shelter didn't inform us - or even know themselves. I should have done more research... I thought I did. It wasn't until I started searching for GP aggression specifically that I found something. I know they are not bad dogs - They are absolutely wonderful to me and do absolutely fine with other dogs. They also do fine together on leashes, out playing, on car rides... The only problematic time is when we are at home and I am trying to rest on the couch (of course).


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

All of what is said above. Siblings get along great one minute, then seem to try to kill each other the next. It's a competition thing. One may submit eventually. Yet think about they are probably close to equals, and aren't going to back down.

What always works best for me, is introducing young pups to a mature adult. Staggering the ages helps. Though you can still have dogs that just don't get along. Breed research tells you a lot of what to expect.


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## Highwaydog (Jun 16, 2012)

Sorry for your tough decision, I also have an Akbash/Pyre and I love the little guy, I personally would feel terrible I'd I had o get rid of him. However I suppose the best decision would be for the welfare of the dogs.


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## Wildzone (Aug 26, 2020)

I understand your struggle. We ended up raising a litter from two mixed breed rescued parents, both of whom we adopted. Parents are a combo of sight (Pharaoh?) hound, shepherd x greyhound, maybe golden retriever. The pups are wonderful, most all very different, and we are madly in love with one amazing, extremely smart, biddable, sensitive guy Samadhi and his sister. I have had many dogs and never known one as intelligent, lovely, sweet as Sam.

We are giving up the other 5 but we want to keep them both and are prepared to raise them semi separately so they are not too dependent on each other, but Sam has picked a fight with every sibling except one sister. Serious hard biting and not letting go, though mostly no broken skin yet, amazingly. however they are only 13 weeks old. This began at 8 weeks. We are devastated at the idea of giving him up, he honestly is that unique. We have separated the remaining 4 into groups as they wait to get adopted, we are that concerned with the intensity of the occasional fights.

I am very worried this may continue with his sister (has not fought with her yet) or even other dogs his age/size as he gets older, or worse yet with his parents once he is their size (they play great now and parents keep him in check). I want a mirror into the future. It just sucks. We are head over heels in love with Sam already, he is otherwise a gem, one of those that come along rarely in a lifetime. But I want a household of peace and harmony; I am a pretty good trainer and devoted dog mom, I play with / exercise them a ton, but you can’t totally change a pup’s personality and genes with training, and I still do have a job (work from home). 😟


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