# Do you think I might be over feeding?



## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

So, the dogs are still having loose stools at least once a day  I just don't get it. I cut out EVERYTHING but kibble and it was good for the first few stools and then it went bad again. I added back the acidophilus and it was good at first and then went bad again. I just don't get it!!

I started feeding the dogs 2 1/2 cups each. Then I cut Iorek back to 2 1/4 cups because he was pooping SO much. At first both dogs had really great stools, formed and solid and great. Then I made "that mistake" with the 6 Fish food but that was 3 weeks ago! Now everything is gone to "poop". 

I cut Brom back to 2 1/4 cups when the loose stool started and I realized that maybe he was a little too padded with the 2 1/2 cups any way. He looks good now. I don't really want to cut him back anymore. His stools start out good but end bad. Argh! I am wondering if maybe his tummy is just not over the bug he had in December?

I wonder if maybe I should cut Iorek back to 2 cups a day for a while? Just to see if that will help. I will keep an eye on his condition and if he starts to lose weight I will put it back up to 2 1/4 cups. He will usually have one good stool and 2 bad stools a day. I am also planning to transition him SLOWLY to the 6 Fish formula to see if that might help. I started yesterday and he got 2 cups of the Regional Red and 1/4 cup of the 6 Fish over 3 meals. His first stool after the 6 Fish was great. The poopie this morning was horrible and he had to have a bath.

I starting to worry that I will have to go back to raw. Which I would love to do, as long as he can eat chicken. I think that I am going to have to do the allergy testing sooner than I was planning for. I have to get my cats their yearly check ups and they need teeth cleanings, my ferrets also need check ups and at least Fred needs his teeth cleaned. Also, my husband's laptop has crapped out so we are looking at spending a lot of money in the next little while. I also have to make a trip to St. John's to see a dr. out there so that is more money  The $350 for the allergy testing is getting pushed back and pushed back. But it really needs to be done because I can't live like this and neither can Iorek!

Do you think it is a good idea to cut Iorek's food back to 2 cups? The recommended feeding for the RR is 45-75 lbs 1 3/4 - 2 1/2 cups. I started with the higher one because Brom is a growing puppy and Iorek is too thin. The feeding recommendation for the 6 Fish is the same.

Argh!


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## HersheyPup (May 22, 2008)

I don't want to suggest that a brand like Purina Pro Plan is nearly as good quality as Champion products, but have you tried something lesser quality? Sometimes dogs just can't handle foods like Orijen, Evo or Blue Wilderness.

Just a suggestion..

Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach does not have chicken in it. Many dogs thrive on this food. There is also Eukanuba Sensitive Skin formula that does not contain any chicken.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

When we got Iorek the breeder had him on Iams. It was no good either


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

What foods have you tried? Orijen really really didn't work well with my dogs. Have you tried something with a high fiber? The only real grain free that works with Beau is TOTW.


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## !dogbreeds (Feb 5, 2010)

hi
i think that is not over feeding, you just need to keep eye on protein content though ,include as much fiber as you can ,i have heard that you should not give more then 30 grams protein to dogs.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

In 21 dogs, I have never had to change food to solve a loose stool problem. Whether you are feeding the right amount is easy.

Your dog definitely should be narrower at the waist than the hips and chest. You should be able to easily feel the ribs, but not see them. Each dog is different. Standard recommendations are a good place to start, but each dog must have its food and exercise adjusted to its individual needs. Here is a link to a good illustrated guide, http://www.longliveyourdog.com/twoplus/RateYourDog.aspx

If your dog has good body condition, take a stool sample to the vet. When my puppies have had loose stools, medicine from the vet made short work of it.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Labsnothers, I don't know why you post that again and again. I am sure that everyone on the forum knows it by heart now.

My dogs are not over weight. Iorek _may_ be a _touch_ underweight since I can feel his spine and his hip bones. The vets that have seen him never said that they were concerned. I mentioned it to one vet and she said he was fine but if I wanted some weight on him I could feed him more  My vet now says he is thin but ok. I can't look at him to see his condition because he has a lot of fur.

I have fed Iorek Iams (when he first came to me), EVO red meat, Canidae, Eagle Pack Holistic Select, then raw for a year, and now Orijen Regional Red. All of the foods (except raw) have had the same effect - good stools for about a month and then it goes soft. Well, the Iams was bad right from the start.

I suspect Iorek has a chicken allergy (that is why I stopped raw) and the ONLY food that I have available to me that doesn't have chicken in it is Orijen RR and 6 Fish. I really don't want to feed the other foods mentioned above (Pro Plan and Eukanuba) because of the preservative that is in fish meal. I don't even think that I would be able to get them to be honest, unless Walmart sells them. The closest Walmart to me is 2 1/2 hours away.

I can try to take a stool sample from each dog with me to the vet on Saturday since I am going with my cats but I don't know if it will still be good if it is 3 hours old. I will call my vet tomorrow to find out. They are closed now.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

ioreks_mom said:


> Labsnothers, I don't know why you post that again and again. I am sure that everyone on the forum knows it by heart now.
> 
> My dogs are not over weight. Iorek _may_ be a _touch_ underweight since I can feel his spine and his hip bones. The vets that have seen him never said that they were concerned. I mentioned it to one vet and she said he was fine but if I wanted some weight on him I could feed him more  My vet now says he is thin but ok. I can't look at him to see his condition because he has a lot of fur.
> 
> ...


I wish I could be more help, but I wish you luck. Food allergies, intolerances, whatever, are *SO* much fun figuring out  Auz had the same problem, and once we were able to pinpoint what his triggers were he was fine. We also did some desensitation with the foods that were bad triggers, and so far so good. And he's never looked better, and like Iorek, he was underweight (except he didn't have a fluffy coat to hide it). 
If his food problems are just one or two ingredients, it should be easy to avoid whatever his triggers are (chicken, etc). I'm not sure how closely you work with your vet, but you might even ask about making payments on his treatments due to other financial stuff and the fact allergy testing isn't cheap. I've done this before; and while monthly payments are a pain in the rear it sure helps in the long run. 
OTOH, what is Ioreks coat like, compared to a few months ago? (Is it getting thinner, duller, etc)?


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Thank you. I looked for slippery elm at my drug store and they didn't have it.  I am going into town on the weekend and will hopefully get some then. I am also getting grapefruit seed extract this weekend.

I am just going to have to do the allergy testing, sooner rather than later. That is the only way I am going to figure this out. _IF_ I can get it figured out. Sometimes it seems like it will never happen.

Iorek's coat is thinner than it was last winter. I don't know if it was because it was mostly puppy coat then? He has scratched out most of the undercoat from his throat area so that makes his coat seem thinner too. It is still just as soft and shiny as it always was though. My friend is absolutely in love with Iorek and he keeps saying that Iorek's coat is getting thicker and fluffier. He only sees Iorek on the weekends because he goes to school out of town. I don't notice Iorek's coat getting thicker so it could be because I am around him all the time. But, looking at pictures from last winter and comparing them to this winter you can definitely see a difference. It could just be because his "mane" is not thick like it was because of the scratching.  Poor guy. On a happy note though, he really doesn't seem to be scratching his throat much anymore. It is more his "armpits" and shoulder blades now.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

ioreks_mom said:


> Labsnothers, I don't know why you post that again and again. I am sure that everyone on the forum knows it by heart now.


Very simple. Day after day the same question comes up time after time. There is an easy answer many don't seem to know.


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

I wouldn't say that there is one answer to all the questions though, after all each dog is different as you posted before. I think that since you have tried so many foods it does come down to trying to find exactly what they are allergic to. I know I will have to do the same as my dog has itching problems, though now that i'm supplementing with raw it seems to get better. Good Luck!


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Sorry I don't have any suggestions. I just wanted to say good luck and I hope the boys get better! It's so strange to me that both your boys are having loose stools and always on the same foods. 

Could there be some kind of bug or bacteria or something in your area like in the grass/dirt/water?


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Try CORE reduced fat.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

this reminds me of a problem one of my rescues had.

every food, loose stools. turned out she had ulcerative colitis. the vet gave us a script for it but Vi has a nasty reaction to that and all of the other meds so she ended up recommending a holistic alternative that worked really well.

this is the stuff.

she said it wasnt very common for her to recommend something like this but a foster mom friend had been using it for years and she tried it on one of her own dogs. so i gave it a shot and it worked.

just a thought. i dont know if that helps but i thought id mention it.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Labsnothers said:


> Very simple. Day after day the same question comes up time after time. There is an easy answer many don't seem to know.


Well, I didn't say "I think my dog is too fat, am I overfeeding?" I said "My dog has loose stools, am I overfeeding?" Your answer doesn't apply here.



Active Dog said:


> I wouldn't say that there is one answer to all the questions though, after all each dog is different as you posted before. I think that since you have tried so many foods it does come down to trying to find exactly what they are allergic to. I know I will have to do the same as my dog has itching problems, though now that i'm supplementing with raw it seems to get better. Good Luck!


I am seriously considering going back to raw. I just worry that he will itch like mad again. What all this is coming down to is that I have to do the allergy testing _yesterday_.



Michiyo-Fir said:


> Sorry I don't have any suggestions. I just wanted to say good luck and I hope the boys get better! It's so strange to me that both your boys are having loose stools and always on the same foods.
> 
> Could there be some kind of bug or bacteria or something in your area like in the grass/dirt/water?


I am wondering the same thing. Although, there isn't much grass/dirt/water around right now  Too much snow! I am going to call my vet today to see if I can bring in a sample when I go with the cats on Saturday. I can't bring to dogs with us because 2 dogs, 2 cats and a foster ferret in the car at one time just doesn't work! Hopefully the sample won't be too old.



Jordan S said:


> Try CORE reduced fat.


I don't have access to this food. 



zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> this reminds me of a problem one of my rescues had.
> 
> every food, loose stools. turned out she had ulcerative colitis. the vet gave us a script for it but Vi has a nasty reaction to that and all of the other meds so she ended up recommending a holistic alternative that worked really well.
> 
> ...


You know, someone else suggested coconut oil to me too  I have a jar of it in my cupboard. I will try it to see how it goes. I always worried about colitis or something with Iorek but no vet ever suggested it. He is perfectly fine with raw (besides scratching like a crazy dog!) so I really don't know. Thank you!


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## PetCareBev (Jan 12, 2009)

ioreks_mom said:


> ...I really don't want to feed the other foods mentioned above (Pro Plan and Eukanuba) because of the preservative that is in fish meal. I don't even think that I would be able to get them to be honest, unless Walmart sells them...


To be clear, the fish meal in Eukanuba is naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols. I work for Eukanuba, and I know this for a fact. We are specific with our suppliers as to how the fish meal is to be preserved. But Eukanuba is not sold at Walmart, so it's probably not the answer for you.

My dog Bailey had a very nasty flu bug last year, and it took a long time to get her stools firmed up again. My vet prescribed meds that helped with the diarrhea, but her stools still didn't totally go back to normal. As a last shot, my vet and I eliminated chicken from her diet and that did the trick--she had developed a chicken allergy and that was the problem. 

It could be an allergy, but I agree with what Michiyo-Fir posted--check the environment for other possible problems. Definitely do a stool sample to the vet. You probably already know this, but I'll say it anyway: make sure your dog stays hydrated--that's one of the biggest dangers with loose stools or diarrhea. 

You obviously care about Iorek--you'll figure this out eventually.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Thank you. I don't have access to Eukanuba at all then.

I don't think that I have to worry about hydration because it is not diarrhea like _diarrhea_ if that makes sense. It is more like their stools are softer than they should be. They still look mostly formed, but just soft. Well, Brom's start out formed and nice but end off like soft serve. Iorek's mostly look formed but when I pick them up they are soft and there is poopie on his "pants". 

I got home from work too late to call the vet again today about the stool sample. I will have to try tomorrow.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Hmm.. maybe you could try reducing their food a little and see if it helps?

Btw, I had the same problem with Cadence having poop stuck to his pants as well.. I got a pair of thinning shears from the petstore to thin his pants down a little (so it's not so puffed up).. and now, no more stuck poop!


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## lexilu (Jun 26, 2008)

I have similar "soft serve" issues with Lexi, and Cody. Cody has had colitis on occassion from beef, not a pretty picture on his pants either. I understand that Wellness is not an option, but how about the Natural Balance. It has limited ingredients so maybe you could work from that. Coconut Oil is a natural anti-fungal. So if they have a fungus issue (from corn, or whatever) that will help. Also - do you give them tap water or bottled. Bottled has made a huge difference around here too. Good luck.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

lucidity said:


> Hmm.. maybe you could try reducing their food a little and see if it helps?
> 
> Btw, I had the same problem with Cadence having poop stuck to his pants as well.. I got a pair of thinning shears from the petstore to thin his pants down a little (so it's not so puffed up).. and now, no more stuck poop!


Iorek's pants are about 7-8 inches long. I can try thinning them out but I really don't know if it will help.  I just want the poopies back to how they were before! Grr!



lexilu said:


> I have similar "soft serve" issues with Lexi, and Cody. Cody has had colitis on occassion from beef, not a pretty picture on his pants either. I understand that Wellness is not an option, but how about the Natural Balance. It has limited ingredients so maybe you could work from that. Coconut Oil is a natural anti-fungal. So if they have a fungus issue (from corn, or whatever) that will help. Also - do you give them tap water or bottled. Bottled has made a huge difference around here too. Good luck.


I don't have access to Natural Balance either. The only foods I can get besides what Walmart has are Go! (no chicken free foods) Canidae (I already know it doesn't work) and Orijen. I will have to get food shipped and I am not sure how much that would be. I could look into it. 

I think that I will start with the coconut oil this evening.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm in the same boat with my pup. Firm first thing in the morning and then soft by mid day. I'm going to try mixing in some frozen biljac to see if that helps. Otherwise it's back to the drawing board. If you come up with a solution...I'm all ears. By the way, I've heard many people say pro plan solves the problem (that's what my last dog was on and never had soft stool) so I may give that a shot if the Fromms/California Natural combo ends up not working! Keep us posted!


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