# Is 6 months old too late to start puppy kindergarten or obedience?



## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi everyone,

We were all set for our pug, Bella, to start a obedience class/puppy kindergarten program for basic training. We got her at 9 weeks, and at 10 weeks, she was scheduled to start.

Due to unforeseen circumstances, we were not able to start that class, at that time. We are now wanting to sign her up for a class. 

Is 6 months (her age as of Feb 8) too late?

Also, what classes specifically do you recommend? What I am loooking for is basic training such as teaching commands, obeying, learning, etc.

We have been able to teach her some things on our own. She will sit, "shake" using both paws on command, lie down when I say, "down"; fully belly to the floor, get up on hind legs when I say, "Up, up!", give kiss, and stay. So not to pat myself on the back  we have done pretty good, being as inexperienced as we are. Also, she is doing AWESOME with housebreaking! When we first got her she was trained to go on pee pee pads, which we stopped using immediately.

What we did, was, immediately put her on a schedule. Outside after play, outside 10 minutes after eating or drinking, outside after sleep and a few times inbetween. As a safeguard, because she was used to the pee pads from the breeder, we "tapered" her off of them. 

What we did was pretty ingenious if I do say so myself! Actually, I can't take credit for that; it was a suggestion of another puppy owner!  Anyway, We took three pee pads. We put them lining up to the door. After two days went by, we took one pad away; two pads remained, leading to the door. A few more days, the second pad was taken away, leaving only one pad right next tpo the door. After a week, we took the last pad away and going outside was the only option. 

She did great with this! She of course, had some accidents, but they were 90% our fault. Pugs don't bark much so when she would go to the door and sit on the matt we have there, if we didn't see her, she would have an accident. She really has done well, though I must say, the books make it sound like housetraining a pug is easier than it is; it is not easy. The no barking, and no indication they need to go out aside from standing or sitting by the door, makes it very difficult. We limit her access to teh house. We keep bedroom doors closed, so she is usually in constant supervision. Of course, it is impossible to supervise every single second, so there were some accidents. I can proudly say that it has been over three weeks with no accidents at all. **knock wood** When she had an accident prior to these past weeks, they were few and far between.

So my point, and yes I ramble, is she has done great with training with the basic commands and toileting.

With all of that said, I really want her to benefit from a class for socialization and for the reasons listed above.

What are your thoughts? Is 6 months too late? I am kicking myself for not taking her as a wee pup, but as I said, things came up that we didn't anticipated and we just couldn't go when we wanted to.

There is a place called teh barking dog which offers various programs, and quite honestly I don't know which one to choose. Should I start very basic, seeing as she hasn't had any formal training?

Thank you for your suggestions/advice. 

Oh, one area that I really, really need help on is the "come!" command. She will not come to me on command. Or I should say, she comes when she damn well feels like it! LOL. But what I mean is, if we accidentally leave a bedroom door open, and I say to her, "Bella! Come!" She will ignore me, and run around the room like a lunatic. Granted, I know it is because it is a new area for her and she is excited. But I need to know if God forbid, if I am walking her and she somehow gets off her leash, and I say, "Come!" she will respond. I have to actually bribe her with treats if she sneaks in a room, in order to get her out. I DO NOT give her the treat, as I don't want to reinforce this behavior.

I have tried things like having her sit down, tell her to stay, and I will walk away. I will then say, "Bella! Come!" and in these instances she will come. But I can't count on it.

Okay, I really didnt mean to turn this into a novel but I wanted to share what I have done to get thoughts....should I do something different?

Also, the training programs...I am enrolling her into something later this month. Suggestions on which program to start would be great. Do places that specialize in training do assessments to determine which class she should be in? That would be cool....

Thanks!
Denise and my beautiful fawn pug, Isabella "Bella" 5 months


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

6 months isn't too old to start classes. My dog Toby was 8 1/2 months old when we got him. So he didn't start obedience classes until he was almost 9 months old. Any time is good.

I would call the school and speak to them about what she already knows and what you want from the classes. They can help you decide what would be best for you and your dog.


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## Maura (Mar 17, 2009)

The most important thing would have been to get her out and meet other dogs. This is what puppy class would have given you. Has she been out and meeting other dogs? If not, she needs to.

As for acting like a clown when you call her, she is a happy puppy. For a recall to be solid, you need to work on it and use good rewards. The rewards can be neck rubs, treats, a toy. Just make the recall the best thing. And don't call her if you think she won't come. If you keep a harness and leash on her you can pull her toward you to remind her.

Dogs don't generalize, so if you don't go into the bedroom and work her on "come", she isn't going to come to you from the bedroom. If you don't work on "come" on the sidewalk in front of your house, she isn't going to come when you call if she is on the sidewalk in front of your house. You need to take her out on a long line and train her everywhere. Start having her sit (you can use a food lure) for the "come".


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## Northern_Inuit_Luv (Aug 26, 2009)

Its never too late to start learning  Most beginner classes won't let you start until 6 months anyway. And as for tests to get into the classes, some places do, some places always make you start at beginner and then go from there. That way you learn what they expect from the beginning (because you both will be learning...you more than the dog, usually, lol). As for what place to choose, I've been to a few training places, but the places that I have found that have the most knowledge and experience with situations is the AKC or UKC Kennel Club training places. It doesn't take much to open a training business, but it takes more to be recognized by these clubs...another place to find training places is the dog park. Find out where people have gone, and if they liked it, and if they would go back. Good training places don't need to advertise because they have too many people on waiting lists to get into a class. To get my first dog into one class, I once had to wait 5 hours in a line to start registration. After we were "in" we got priority for the higher class when we completed the one we started...and other people woudl have to wait in line and be put on waiting lists....


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

DeniseV said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We were all set for our pug, Bella, to start a obedience class/puppy kindergarten program for basic training. We got her at 9 weeks, and at 10 weeks, she was scheduled to start.
> 
> ...


First, let me compliment you on your intentions. Unfortunately, a lot of small breed owners don't bother with training for their pets and it's good to see someone who is responsible about pet ownership. 

For "puppy kindergarden" some trainers do have a nominal age limit. Generally, that is done for size reasons so that an inexperienced owner doesn't bring in a playfully untrained year old Great Dane or Lab. A small dog such as yours may be welcome even if she were somewhat older than the nominal limit. Check with your trainer. "Puppy kindergarden" is mostly concerned with socialization and owner responsibility, but there is some introductory attention work and introduction to basic commands. Socialization is _very important_ for puppies. 

The follow-on class is usually called something like "Beginner Obedience" or "Beginner Pet Obedience". Still some socialization but the emphasis is more on attention, building trust, basic commands and use of rewards. 

For older puppies that have no formal training but are too big for kindergarden and for older dogs of uncertain training, most trainers will recommend starting them in the "beginner obedience" class even if they seem to know the basic commands. 

But for a puppy such as yours I would really try to start off in the kindergarden class. 

A few schools - not many - actually run specific classes for toy and small breeds. The class content is mostly the same but the special needs of smaller dogs are emphasized.



DeniseV said:


> Also, what classes specifically do you recommend? What I am loooking for is basic training such as teaching commands, obeying, learning, etc.


See above. 

I prefer classes that aim for a specific endpoint such as the AKC "S.T.A.R Puppy" evaluation. Not for anything, but having your puppy - and you - evaluated against a specific goal is for me much more effective. Sort of like a final exam. 



DeniseV said:


> We have been able to teach her some things on our own. She will sit, "shake" using both paws on command, lie down when I say, "down"; fully belly to the floor, get up on hind legs when I say, "Up, up!", give kiss, and stay. So not to pat myself on the back  we have done pretty good, being as inexperienced as we are. Also, she is doing AWESOME with housebreaking!
> 
> .....
> 
> What are your thoughts? Is 6 months too late?


Sounds like you are off to an excellent start. 

No it is not "too late". I would still recommend a puppy kindergarden with a S.T.A.R evaluation or equivalent - for the socialization and for learning to pay attention to you with other dogs around. 



DeniseV said:


> Oh, one area that I really, really need help on is the "come!" command. She will not come to me on command. Or I should say, she comes when she damn well feels like it! I have tried things like having her sit down, tell her to stay, and I will walk away. I will then say, "Bella! Come!" and in these instances she will come. But I can't count on it.
> 
> ....should I do something different?


Getting a reliable recall does not happen overnight and teaching it - especially on your own - is not as easy as some people make it out to be. 

Yes I would be using a different approach but rather than going into a lot of details I would suggest telling your trainer in your first class that you are having a problem with it. Good trainers love to know which dogs are having particular issues, and they especially like owners who are up-front and honest about it.



DeniseV said:


> Do places that specialize in training do assessments to determine which class she should be in? That would be cool....


Except as I mentioned, most trainers will not recommend "skipping" classes especially with a young dog such as yours. There are always exceptions, of course. But you will be surprised how much you can pick up by attending a class that *you* think is 'too elementary'. 

We've had teams that were already competing in formal obedience taking CGC and therapy dog classes. You'd think they wouldn't have to bother with it and could just skip to the evaluations. Maybe they could have, but they always said the experience was a very positive one. 

A good trainer will always "assess" both the dog and the owner through observation. Usually, it doesn't take long to figure out which teams have a good relationship and which don't. If a team seems to have a particular aspect well in hand, the trainer won't spend too much time on it with them. If they seem to be having a problem, they will get more attention. Same as any other form of teaching.

With an _ experienced_ handler and a green or uncertain dog - say a rescue situation - a trainer and the team may go through an individual "assessment session" so they can mutually decide where the best place to start would be, depending on what the team is shooting for. Also, a dog that has had aggression issues either to dogs or to other people will almost always need individual training and temperament assessment before they will be allowed into a group setting. But these don't apply to you.


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## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

Maura said:


> The most important thing would have been to get her out and meet other dogs. This is what puppy class would have given you. Has she been out and meeting other dogs? If not, she needs to.


Hi there,

thanks for your reply.

Oh yes, we take her out every Saturday for this exact purpose. If the weather was nicer, she would be going more often for walks and such, but due to teh weather, every Saturday, we take her to Petsmart for socialization.

There are a TON of dogs there every Saturday. I know this isn't enough but it helps.

We also take her to a groomer who does day boarding. She goes there on days when we don't have someone home the whole day, so she is supervised. This groomer doesn't crate the dogs unless there is some aggression. So, Bella has a great time playing with the other dogs. She doesn't go there on a regular basis, though, but when she does she has a blast.

We also have good friends who have dogs (one friend in particular, she sees regularly) and she romps around with them.

So all and all, she is socialized but not as much as I would like. When the nicer weather is here and we go to the park, she will haev more opportunity. I have been looking into pug groups in my area with not much success but I am always thinking of ways to get her to hang out with dogs, for the purpose of socializing her.

Thank you again!

Hugs,
Denise


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## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

Poly said:


> First, let me compliment you on your intentions. Unfortunately, a lot of small breed owners don't bother with training for their pets and it's good to see someone who is responsible about pet ownership.
> 
> For "puppy kindergarden" some trainers do have a nominal age limit. Generally, that is done for size reasons so that an inexperienced owner doesn't bring in a playfully untrained year old Great Dane or Lab. A small dog such as yours may be welcome even if she were somewhat older than the nominal limit. Check with your trainer. "Puppy kindergarden" is mostly concerned with socialization and owner responsibility, but there is some introductory attention work and introduction to basic commands. Socialization is _very important_ for puppies.
> 
> ...


Wow, thank you SO MUCH for your detailed response. Seriously....I truly appreciate all you suggested!

I am so glad to know that 6 months isn't too late for her to learn...I was alwasy under the impression "the sooner the better" and that pups develop based on what they learn within the first 6 months. I was discouraged based on this thought, and am beyond relieved to know it isn't necessarily true!

Thank you again for all your advice. I am going to print this thread out, and refer to it as the advice here has been incredible.

Hugs,
Denise


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## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

Thank you all so very much for taking thetime to respond to my thread. I so appreciate you all taking the time to write back....it means alot.

This place is great. I say it all the time, but I mean it sincerely. Before I got Bella, when researching breeds and such, I came here and "lurked". I became a memeber after getting Bella but I can honestly say this forum has been yhe most helpful tool when I was researching and when I had issues or questions.

Thanks to all of you.

Hugs,
Denise


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## kailaq (Nov 12, 2009)

its not too late at all for you to enrol your Bella in puppy school. i do recommend choosing a school that offers 'beginner' classes as opposed to 'puppy' classes. its the same instruction, its just the age of the pups in the class. i go to a petsmart in my area, more to socialize my pup than to train her, and they offer puppy (for pups 8 weeks - 5months) and beginner (5 months +) classes.


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