# Braeburn



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Vrijheid's Worth the Wait... "Braeburn"










Oh man, I already have so many stories I don't know where to start. But in a nutshell, he's an amazing pup. He will be a lot of work, but I already cannot wait to see the dog he will become. I sort of theoretically understood how working dogs could be too much for the average owner. Now after just 1.5 days with one, I FULLY understand what that means. The owner/trainer I am today is also fully prepared and I am so looking forward to this journey.


----------



## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

Oh my gosh that _face!_ How's Soro taking the new addition?


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Here are a few snippets so far. Granted, he has experienced a lot of transition in such a short period of time so some of this may change after a few days or weeks of settling in. But I don't expect him to be mellow 

1. He can't handle life and he will destroy anything he can get his mouth on. 
At the breeder's he was trying to shred our contract as I was trying to sign it. The breeder threw down a notepad for him to shred but we had to pick it up because he started eating the paper. He tried to drag a backpack across the ground and also tried to give me a haircut when my ponytail was on my shoulder. Within thirty seconds at a friend's house he tried to run away with a shoe and played tug with a house plant (this is him on leash and supervised, just moving from point A to B). At my house, in rapid succession... he tried to pull up the carpet, then drag Soro's dog bed away, then threw himself in the air and onto the ground, then tried to go for the shoe again. Like I said, can't handle life 

2. He's a screamer. But he's smart.
The first car ride was hard on our ears. But I started crate/calm/quiet training the first minute he got into the car, first by ignoring the many minutes of howling/shrieking/barking/growling/yipping/trilling... Then by reaching backwards and rewarding quiet. The second day we drove 10 hours with multiple stops, and barely a peep from him even as we were moving around and putting him in and out of the crate maybe 5-8 times. During a stay at a friend's house en-route, he screamed in the crate for quite the while. I felt bad for my hosts but I kept on with the training. The next morning, he quietly observed in his crate as we moved around the house. Same pattern in my house tonight. Basically, he's trying to figure out what will work for him. He REALLY quickly figured it out. I mean, I still have ear plugs for the next few weeks because training isn't magic. But still, I'm impressed.

3. The breeder did a great job with getting house training started.
I don't even think she deliberately worked on this but rather she kept his living space clean... But in the less-than-two days I've had him he's already had over a dozen potty breaks. Really, I've stopped counting. But quite literally, I plop him outside and say "potty", and he IMMEDIATELY goes. I don't think he knows the cue yet, but he is so easy and predictable with this one that I'm sure he'll get it in a week. He has had an accident once so far but it was my fault... Instead of carrying him I tried to run him to the door and he couldn't make it - he peed on the stones right in front of the door


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

DaySleepers said:


> Oh my gosh that _face!_ How's Soro taking the new addition?


Soro absolutely hates him 
But seriously, I will have to be very careful with the two. Soro has given Brae some very appropriate corrections so far but Soro is not known for appropriate corrections in general, so I will be managing a ton. It is too early to say if Sor will actually like him in a month or two... I hope so but I also went into this prepared for a lifetime of management and even crate/rotate if needed.


----------



## LorraineJim (Mar 16, 2017)

The 'Braeburn' is a cultivar of apple that is firm to the touch with a red/orange vertical streaky appearance on a yellow/green background. Its color intensity varies with different growing conditions.


----------



## Super_Nova (Dec 23, 2016)

Oh man, cute dutchie puppy. Those stories remind me so much of Nova when she was a pup, always trying to eat everything that she came in contact with.


----------



## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

Goodness, he sounds like a handful! I do hope that Soro learns to tolerate him, but I have no doubt you're up to the challenge of handling both these boys, whatever happens. Looking forward to seeing more of him and your progress together!


----------



## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Awww...congrats!! 
You can see the mischief in his little puppy eyes (reminds me of Bella when she was that age...eek!)


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

What a "Stunner" Congratulations !!!


----------



## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Squeeee! Congratulations, share lots of pictures!


----------



## emmybear (Sep 7, 2015)

He's absolutely precious! I'm jealous. I've never met a dutchie in real life so it will be exciting to watch him grow up through here.


----------



## Dogsignalfire (Nov 17, 2015)

Like I said, I'M SO EXCITED FOR YOU STILL HAHA! Also I loved reading your detailed post about what has happened so far LOL, makes me almost feel like I met him. Please continue to update with stories and training.









"theoretically understood how working dogs could be too much for the average owner." Tbh same here, everyone talks about it on the internet, but it's impossible to know how a high drive belgian/dutchie acts until I actually met them LOL. And they aren't even puppies! It's almost like a shock at first, the difference between them and an aussie or lab.


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

He's beautiful. I love the description. It reminds me of some of Mesa's littermates, both of whom will be training in IPO. Good luck and buy welder's gloves. lol But mostly enjoy!


----------



## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

So handsome! Congrats and have fun!


----------



## Aussie27 (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm so glad I checked here and found some more info on how he's been so far. I hope he continues to be everything you've ever wanted and I hope you continue updating us! I kept a journal when I got Indie and it was so nice to look back on.



Dogsignalfire said:


> It's almost like a shock at first, the difference between them and an aussie or lab.


I don't know... I have heard of some very wild Aussie puppies. I'd say it depends on the individual.  Braeburn sounds like an absolute wild child though.


----------



## Dogsignalfire (Nov 17, 2015)

Aussie27 said:


> I don't know... I have heard of some very wild Aussie puppies. I'd say it depends on the individual.  Braeburn sounds like an absolute wild child though.


I guess one could say that, but if you have personally never met a hyper working line dutchie/belgian... There is really no comparison between the crazy ones, it's pretty funny. Even the wildest aussie or lab is still a tamer type of wild than the belgians LOL.


----------



## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

That looks like trouble! You'll have fun with him!


----------



## Aussie27 (Sep 25, 2010)

Dogsignalfire said:


> I guess one could say that, but if you have personally never met a hyper working line dutchie/belgian... There is really no comparison between the crazy ones, it's pretty funny. Even the wildest aussie or lab is still a tamer type of wild than the belgians LOL.


I haven't met one, so there is that.  I just don't know if it's a fair assumption to say that all aussies are easier than all belgians, just based on what I've heard... they're different types of dogs and so different people might find them easier or harder based on their own experiences and preferences. I do agree that an 'average' pet home probably isn't adequate for a working line mal or something.


----------



## Dogsignalfire (Nov 17, 2015)

Aussie27 said:


> I haven't met one, so there is that.  I just don't know if it's a fair assumption to say that all aussies are easier than all belgians, just based on what I've heard... they're different types of dogs and so different people might find them easier or harder based on their own experiences and preferences. I do agree that an 'average' pet home probably isn't adequate for a working line mal or something.


Well, I never said "all" haha! I specified high drive or working line dutchies/belgians. I've met some showline belgians who are very tame dogs, and showline belgians who are higher drive and hyper as well.  You really should meet a few WL though, they're very interesting LOL, or we could talk back and forth like this all day.

sorry about the derail topic canyx


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Ohh... I've met some crazy lab puppies and aussie puppies 
Granted, meeting a dog and owning a dog are two different stories. I guess one big difference I am noticing through observation is, for his AGE, he needs to be taught to chill out. I know all puppies zoom and crash to some degree. But I seriously think if this guy wasn't in a crate or tethered right now, he just wouldn't sleep. The 8-9 week old puppies I typically meet are not this energetic. Some are! But not many. Also keep in mind that my breeder did not give me the driviest puppy.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

And then there was Mia....

I'm anxious to see how Mia compares to my border collie when I get her. All my local sporter collie friends are horrified by young Mia tales. I don't think she slept till 4 years old. And my friends have been able to leave their dogs loose since 6 months lol. 

Congrats! Super cute and y'all will have a blast.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

PUPPY!! Huge congrats! He sounds like a wild ride already. Isn't this your first puppy?

I really really love these crazy high drive working dogs. I know in my heart they are not right for my lifestyle at this point but I sure do admire them! I can't wait to see him grow.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Soro was my first puppy! Over ten years ago...

Someone who got one of Brae's siblings posted a video of the puppy going bonkers in the crate and asked if anyone else was going through this. Hahaa 

Braeburn has really great food and toy drives so far. He goes nutters for both. Very brave and bold in general and game for just about anything. I am prioritizing crate/calm/departure training, house training, and basically setting a routine these first couple weeks. Oh, and socialization whenever/wherever, of course! I am also shaping sits, having him wait for a release cue, and easy stuff that come pretty naturally to daily life. 

It's hard to believe it's been less than 24 hours that he's been here!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Canyx said:


> Ohh... I've met some crazy lab puppies and aussie puppies
> Granted, meeting a dog and owning a dog are two different stories. I guess one big difference I am noticing through observation is, for his AGE, he needs to be taught to chill out. I know all puppies zoom and crash to some degree. But I seriously think if this guy wasn't in a crate or tethered right now, he just wouldn't sleep. The 8-9 week old puppies I typically meet are not this energetic. Some are! But not many. Also keep in mind that my breeder did not give me the driviest puppy.


Molly - and Thud, but in different ways. That said neither was as hard (for me) as I think most working shepherd breed puppies tend to be. Thud wasn't all that energetic, and Molly was always super soft and biddable, so both had compensations to make them easier. She did take crating to chill out and a strict 'games on MY terms' rules. I still can't keep toys in the house or she just... stays on edge.



Laurelin said:


> And then there was Mia....
> 
> I'm anxious to see how Mia compares to my border collie when I get her. All my local sporter collie friends are horrified by young Mia tales. I don't think she slept till 4 years old. And my friends have been able to leave their dogs loose since 6 months lol.
> 
> Congrats! Super cute and y'all will have a blast.


I think it's mostly just different and you'll be fine. Like I said, in most BC I think 'biddable and soft' compensate for a lot and a lot of people having major issues (not all, but some) to some degree or another create it. Ie: They don't expect the dog to chill and turn off, try to exercise and entertain constantly and the dog is smart so learns how to keep that going/make it happen and it spirals. What you make the routine will be what they expect and try to make happen.

AND NOW THAT THAT IS OUT OF THE WAY: 

CUTEST PUPPY EVER and I can't wait to see him grow!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

He is pretty darn cute. 



















Actually, Soro was super appropriate today and did a lot of moving away and mayyyybe even one popping motion that didn't turn into anything. But that's always good to see.


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Braeburn, and welcome home.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

For some reason I thought you got Soro as an adult. I get my stories all confused anymore. I'm sure he will at least learn to tolerate Braeburn's existence eventually.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

He is so gorgeous am so happy for you...  Think Soro is playing it smart.. He needs to do the I'm the adult thing, first impression... When this puppy gets bigger he wont try to treat Soro like a litter mate.. Both my younger adults have made that mistake and well it can get unbearable in how a growing adolescent pup trys to disrespect them in playing.. The other adults who established themselves as adults and not play mates to a new pup.. Very little chances as the pup gets older and bigger and more confident.. Growing pup wouldn't pull any crap with the adults.. I wouldn't worry about Soro's playing the long game with this pup...


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

He is adorable for sure. Dutchies are such beautiful, athletic animals. I really enjoy ready about your life with him so far!


----------



## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Congrats! He's adorable! Looking forward to more updates.


----------



## Wet Beards (Jan 25, 2015)

Look at that face. Impossibly cute. 
How do you expect us to believe he's anything
but an angel.


----------



## Alisa♥ (Mar 9, 2017)

Gotta love Soro's caption bubble! :laugh: Braeburn is just beautiful and I love the name. He sounds like a handful, but that can be so fun! And worth it when you look into those pretty eyes


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Brae looks like a fun handful. I expect to see videos of him counting, and reading, and driving the car in a few weeks. I expect Soro will snark appropriately...


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

He hates being carried. It's his one handling sensitivity and I think it can easily be worked on. The problem is, the number of times I need to 'just do it' outweigh the classical conditioning I'm trying to do, because he is undervaccinated and I need to carry him in many situations. However, he learned this neat trick today that will probably cut his need to be carried in half:


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Love it!

*too short*


----------



## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

My wife just asked if we could get one.

I told her no XD. But he is very cute!


----------



## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

Reminds me of when my working Terv came home  

First two nights he was like a Tasmanian devil, a whirlwind that wanted to bite and destroy everything in the radius around him! 

Good luck with him! 

It seems like quite the jump to go to a Dutchie  
Do you plan to do bitework with him?


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I don't plan on doing any competitive things with him. 

Quite the jump, but I LOVE his energy and drive. Every time I work with him is a joy. I don't think the exercise/training aspect will be challenging for me at all. I know he is still a wee infant. But he is exhausted every day after I work with him and I am already wishing I can do more with him. I can tell he's tired when he doesn't bite or go after a toy with as much enthusiasm and I am literally (but gently) dragging him along the ground with a toy in his mouth. Hahaa 

The settling bit will take a while longer, I think. But as it stands, draping seems to be a nice short term solution.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Congrats! He's beautiful and I can't wait to see what you guys do together.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I need to take more photos but have been so busy with training and stuff... He already looks SOOO different compared to a week ago! One ear is now standing too!

This pup continues to impress me every day with his solid nerves, quick recovery, and boundless energy. I was doing a socialization dinner with my friend who has an adult dog and a cat. Braeburn was a typical high energy puppy. I could tell he was tired since we also did our first (short) hike today and he was getting more spastic at my friend's house. But he would not stop. At times he would body slam into my friend and then try to bite her face. While eating I sat on the leash and restricted his movement hoping he would lie down and chill out. He did everything except that! He tried chewing the base of the water dish holder, tangled himself in the chair, tried jumping on me.... At times he sat nicely or just stood there. But he did not chill out. After 1.5 hours of nonstop play/training, I put him in his car crate and he was out like a light. OUT.

Just goes to show something I already knew, which is not to try to tire him out but rather give him a fair amount of exercise and training, then set boundaries. Teaching an off switch is probably one of the most important things for me and my lifestyle (and sanity). He's on his way... Even right now in his home crate (which some of you may know he has a little more trouble with in terms of settling - no issues going in), he got his crate snack and I draped it... I haven't heard from him since 

Anyways, it's been 5-6 days with him so far and here's what we've worked on:
hiking, playground equipment, unstable surfaces, tunnels, tethering, crate training, click for calm, disc, flirt pole, spring pole, tug, get it, drop, waiting at all doors and boundaries, eye contact/engagement, release cue, name recognition, follow me, verbal recall, whistle recall, handling handling handling, drop, riding in shopping carts (and getting in on his own!), calm when I am interacting/playing with Soro, potty and poop on cue, pedestal work, separation in various situations, leash work, collar/harness desensitization and grabs, bite inhibition... probably a few other things too but this is the bulk of it.

He's met dozens of people of all ages and types, has so far visited one new place each day (hiking, friend's house, different stores, different fields, work, etc.), assisted with one of my training classes, has met a cat and four dogs of various ages, exposure to bikes and cars and vacuums and lots of different musical sounds (partner is a musician).

I have used very few cues/commands with him so far. I don't say his name very often at all. I don't think he knows the word "sit" yet but he does it automatically in many situations. But I have had great success building the behaviors and confidence in the situations described above. So far, there has not been a situation where he has not excelled. Don't get me wrong... There have been moments where he might have been cautious or fearful. The first time I put him in a shopping car, for example, he jumped out! Thankfully I had him on a harness and leash and I braced his fall. But after 5-15 minutes riding around in the store, he was wagging his tail, chewing things up, and playing tug in the cart. I credit that to the good nerves and awesome recovery I mentioned earlier.

More work ahead. And photos, hopefully...


----------



## Super_Nova (Dec 23, 2016)

It sounds like you are doing so good with him! Lots and lots of training. Have you considered doing any tracking or scent work with him? Nova has such a good nose, she could find anything. I'm glad he his working out for you! Can't wait to see more pictures


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Ahhh! Yeah, there are a few big things I have not exposed him to yet that are really high on my list of priorities: nosework, water/swimming, and agility equipment. I have my odor all ready, just forgot in the mix of everything else. Thanks for the reminder


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Clicker training, stacking rings, and reading?

Re: Stepping on the leash -
One way that Ian Dunbar teaches Settle was to ask the pup to Down, then to gently step on the leash close to the collar, so that the pup can't even get up. When I first heard it described, it sounded so cruel, but when I saw it in action, it only immobilizes most dogs, and because they can't get up, they quickly relax. 

When you step on it gently, it it is 'loose' and doesn't apply pressure when the dog is Down. It only applies pressure, if the dog tries to get up, and we've never had a dog get anxious from a correct application.


----------



## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

He's the absolute handsomest, and I love his name (though the reference evades me, if there is one)! Looking forward to continued updates and watching you guys bond as a team <3


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

"Braeburn"... Like the apple  Soro was named after the wood sorrel. I like my plant-y earthy names!

He is so awesome. Basically, he is perfect in a draped crate now. He might whimper a tiny bit but pretty much we can go about doing anything and he is nice and calm in there. 

Soro has actually been quite awesome with him. I don't think he 'likes' the puppy yet but has been perfectly appropriate and a good role model on the trail.




























Life is good. Pretty much the only thing that's giving me trouble isn't the puppy himself but the adjustment to this big lifestyle change. I have not been eating well, not sleeping well, not keeping my house well, and have also slacked on Soro's routine and training. But I suspect with a few more weeks the funk will disappear and I will find a new routine


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

first picture is my favorite.... So happy for you and yes routines get shuffled... but the balance out...


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

That popular video of a malinois puppy going crazy in the ex-pen? Brae is totally that  I used him in my class again today and for the entire hour he was trying to find something to do, nonstop. He was on leash the entire time and had a mat with some toys. He went after the toys, my shoe, my laces, toys again, started peeing even though I let him out 20 minutes prior, twice! Drank some water, looked at me, toys, chew the mat....

Did not settle or take a nap. All of this is also after 45 minutes of play/training too. I almost envy the folks who can let their puppies hang out loose in their home from day one. Boundary training and crate training are indispensable to me with this one!

He was absolutely awesome in class though! When I focused on him he was thrilled to work with me and despite it all, he was not in the least distracted by the 7ish people in the room including two young kids. He was very sweet and appropriate when being pet later on.

Also, people complaining of nipping and biting.... It has not been an issue so far. At all. I mean, there was the time he tried to bite my face when I blew air at his. And if he gets too crazy he bites a little harder at a hand or something. But carrying a toy around and redirecting have been no trouble at all. I almost don't know how people end up with nipping issues


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Video compilation of some (but not all) of the stuff we've been working on in the last 1.5 weeks.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some mat work and impulse control with both dogs this morning. They are doing so well. Soro has a tendency to butt in and steal toys, and Brae has a tendency to frustration bark. So there will be much more of this training moving forward.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

This was around 10 weeks and he will be 11 tomorrow. Growing so fast!


----------



## Aussie27 (Sep 25, 2010)

Goodness is he ever adorable!


----------



## fredsmom (Jan 16, 2017)

Just saw this thread - he is STUNNING. Those ears


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

He is such a blast to train.


----------



## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Ahhh working dogs, gotta love em! He sounds like Izze when she was a puppy  coincidentally she was the only one of all the dogs I have owned that couldnt be crated, luckily she also quickly learned not to destroy things other than her toys (except dog beds for some reason -_- she always had a tendency right up until she died to destroy dog beds).

I can't wait to see him / her grow up!!!! such a nice looking puppy, I am so jealous! LOL Mals and dutchies shed to much for my allergies


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

smile awesome awesome, smile awesome awesome......


----------



## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

awww...I love him!  He looks like a little African Wild Dog


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks all!



BellaPup said:


> awww...I love him!  He looks like a little African Wild Dog


 That's what I think every day too


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

14.5 weeks, taken this morning.

I have nothing but the same to report. Awesome puppy. Excels at everything. I've probably been pushing him more than I should have. He's crossing fallen logs over rapids on hikes, has no problem pushing 6 miles (not a regular thing, but we did it!). We did some nosework this morning and he is showing a solid understanding of the game. He is already doing out of sight stays, very solid drops, demoed in my off leash hiking class and was a rockstar...

Socialization has gone well too. I am almost at the end of the peak window here, and I anticipate adolescence right around the corner. But I know what that is like, and regardless of what greater rascal he becomes I am very pleased with the foundation we are laying right now.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Looking handsome as ever! Glad you are enjoying him.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

15.5 week video. Doing great!


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Just amazing!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I am continuously thrilled by this dog. (And sorry I've been negligent about photos! He's growing so quickly!!)

5 months next weekend, zero issues so far. Check back with me in a few months when adolescence is in full swing. But up until now there has been no situation too much for him, no training or play enough. His exuberance shines when after some agility practice, he was having so much fun that he jumped into the compressed tunnel and lied there as I was carrying it back to the shed. No sensitivities to sounds like the cacophony of a busy shelter, or lightning, no over the top reactivity to critters. Happy to greet people and dogs, happy to leave them. He comes on a little strong with large dogs, but is surprisingly appropriate and respectful with smaller ones.

Despite my concerns about bad potty habits forming around the crate, he has not had a single house training accident in a few weeks now. Despite my concerns about settling being an issue, he is surprisingly acclimated to the idea that crate time is down time. All three crates are undraped most of the time now. It doesn't mean he is catatonic in there, not even close. But he's learning, and improving constantly.

He makes it look easy. And really, training in general has been so easy. Doesn't matter if we're doing impulse control, agility, nosework, tricks, distance work or anything in between. He taught himself how to ride a skateboard in two or three sessions. I was able to teach him to balance a treat on his nose in three or four 1 minute sessions. His impulse control is already better than most dogs' and generalized.

He is also surprisingly very similar to Soro in some ways. When we hike, their tails are perpetually the same, same height and wag, almost like a metronome. They both like to scavenge. They both are generally fearless and have great food and toy drive. Brae is a little 'more' in every way except the negatives that Soro has. Both compete (Brae more passively and Soro definitely actively) for my resources. Brae pushes harder for toys and Sor a little more for food. I think part of what makes Brae easy is I raised Sor first... Both are harder rather than soft, all or none dogs. I think what makes Brae feel even easier is he is even more focused and is way less pushy around dogs. 

I've had my moments of frustration, still do. But that reflects more on my lack of patience and ability when I am frustrated, less so Brae's ability. I am quickly learning that working dogs don't necessarily need endless amounts of exercise and training, but they do need a lot more structure. Brae is still not a dog I can just hang out with in the house. Last time I tried that (two days ago), and even with him on a tether, with a toy, after exercise, and literally right next to me, he pestered Sor and got bitten in the face (level 2 bite, slight abrasion no puncture). Although he is great with people he is a little too much for now. He launches up at them whereas I am trying to work on jumping. Those things don't bother me because the management (crate) and training (focus) make it easy to avoid those situations. But I am still slightly envious of my friends' puppies who can casually hang about the house all day. And although his intelligence, focus and drives are largely innate... I train hard, obsessively hard, to maintain this.

All in all I am lucky and so grateful to have him! I was worried about how I would handle this after my experience years ago with adopting and rehoming an amazing dog I didn't bond with, and about putting all my faith in a breeder for a puppy I never met. But this has exceeded my expectations in every way.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

:grouphug::clap2::rockon:

Great update so happy for you !!! and yes letting it slide on the pictures lo lol lol lol


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

That's wonderful!


----------



## Dogsignalfire (Nov 17, 2015)

That is so good to hear!! I think it says a lot about your skills as a trainer, obviously even besides the good genetics!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Sounds like Brae is becoming, yet another heart dog! Sounds amazing. Sounds like he'll pass the CGC and therapy training, just as a matter of course. Did you have plans for Service dog training? If he has the patience, pls clicker train him to stack rings, teach him Right and Left, and put him on the path to surpass Chaser the Dog for the number of named toys understood (and perhaps fast mapping).


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks all! Will try to get some pics today. We are going on a 6 dog hike because it's my friends' dog's 1st birthday 



Dogsignalfire said:


> That is so good to hear!! I think it says a lot about your skills as a trainer, obviously even besides the good genetics!


I disappoint myself on a regular basis! I am too obsessive about it. Yes, he makes few mistakes for a puppy his age/breed. But when he does make a mistake, I have a mini internal crisis about it. Yesterday the long line slipped out from me on a hike and he jumped on someone for I think the first time ever on a hike. No big deal, right? I was so upset internally! Yeah, I think technically I am a pretty good trainer. But I make myself so uncomfortable being a control freak sometimes!



hanksimon said:


> Sounds like Brae is becoming, yet another heart dog! Sounds amazing. Sounds like he'll pass the CGC and therapy training, just as a matter of course. Did you have plans for Service dog training? If he has the patience, pls clicker train him to stack rings, teach him Right and Left, and put him on the path to surpass Chaser the Dog for the number of named toys understood (and perhaps fast mapping).


No plans other than assisting me in some classes and being my buddy


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Sounds like you guys are doing great and Brae sounds like a lot of fun!

I understand the being the ideal trainer and our own internal panic attacks over stupid things. I'm that way with housebreaking. I wanted to flip my crap over housebreaking Ember because she would still have extremely rare accidents between 6mo-1year old. Regression is a common thing and I KNOW that but one of my hugest peeves is older dogs pottying inside. I freaked out thinking she would never be house broken 100%.. even though all it took was one small adjustment and never happened again. Yay control issues!


----------



## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Canyx said:


> I disappoint myself on a regular basis! I am too obsessive about it. Yes, he makes few mistakes for a puppy his age/breed. But when he does make a mistake, I have a mini internal crisis about it. Yesterday the long line slipped out from me on a hike and he jumped on someone for I think the first time ever on a hike. No big deal, right? I was so upset internally! Yeah, I think technically I am a pretty good trainer. But I make myself so uncomfortable being a control freak sometimes!


I struggle with that, too. Ralphie made a mistake, like blowing up at another dog across the street or strange people, and I would just feel so terrible about it for a few days. In reality, it's probably not all that uncommon of his age and breed, and it usually ended up being something he grew out of. He's almost 2 and you would think I would know better and understand that he's still going to have some of those issues from time to time, and do bad things. It helps to say to myself, "hey, he blew up today at a dog, but he passed three people on the sidewalk without caring too much and didn't care about the dogs screaming at him from their yard, so good enough."


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Glad I'm not alone 

Anyways, here are some overdue photos. We did a 6 dog hike today since it was one of the dogs' birthdays. Everyone had a blast and was super well behaved!
































































Soro did great too, always does. No one really believes me when I tell them he's not good with dogs because he can do stuff like this... It's all about that initial introduction!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Denise is doing a class at Fenzi relatively soon that focuses on how we respond to and handle mistakes in training - ours and the dogs - and it looks like it's going to be wildly popular. You are very much not alone.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Sounds like... A counseling session


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Nah, it's geared toward actual dog training/active response when you or your dog messes up so you neither freeze nor make the situation worse. Less the mental stuff, though I suspect having a firm plan for when things go south would help me mentally.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

That sounds pretty cool! I may take it at bronze depending on what my life looks like then. Do you know the name of it and when it will be offered? For the most part, I am pretty good about changing something about my expectations or my setup if something doesn't happen the way I want it to. I find that my emotions definitely impact my decision making. When I am grouchy or impatient I do a lot more negative punishment and my training gets sloppy. Then stress (from myself and the dog) begets more stress. When I am feeling positive, it is so close to errorless dog training.


----------



## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Canyx said:


> That sounds pretty cool! I may take it at bronze depending on what my life looks like then. Do you know the name of it and when it will be offered? For the most part, I am pretty good about changing something about my expectations or my setup if something doesn't happen the way I want it to. I find that my emotions definitely impact my decision making. When I am grouchy or impatient I do a lot more negative punishment and my training gets sloppy. Then stress (from myself and the dog) begets more stress. When I am feeling positive, it is so close to errorless dog training.


My theory is, when in doubt and feeling very grouchy, throw treats in the air and walk away, lol!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I think that's pretty typical - or for some dealing with an adrenaline rush or being in a competition ring, but basically some circumstances happen and it's easy to get stuck. 

I don't know the name, yet, but I'll keep an eye open and let people know when it goes live. I'm looking forward to seeing it!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Video from yesterday's training and this morning. He is so eager! But I must say, he is a little more subdued than usual right now, either because he's had a couple rough and tumble play/hike sessions, or the diarrhea we are trying to resolve, or both. The amount he is subdued is so subtle the average person would see nothing but a happy, hungry, playful and energetic puppy. But I know him


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thrilled with this dog. I threw him into a 4 hour kayaking trip in which he started out whining and falling off the boat a few times. But before long, he was eager to jump back into the boat each time we pushed off another island. He ended the trip being calm, steady and exactly the kind of dog I wanted him to be.

He's still fearless, and there's still nothing I have thrown at him (and I have thrown a lot of stuff at him) that he did not thrive at.



















Settled at the target, just like we trained for, while everyone was eating lunch.



























The ride home. Haven't heard from him in a few hours


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

For the record, I will always be completely honest about my puppy raising experience here. I will update even if there is no response. I want people to see what the results of good breeding and good training produce, whether or not I have problems with Brae down the line.


----------



## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry, I think your puppy grew legs and is no longer a puppy.


----------



## Aussie27 (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't always respond, but I love your updates! I genuinely find them incredibly inspiring and they get me super excited to get my puppy next year; I'm sure we won't be nearly as advanced as you two, but we will try our best. 

Also, yeah, LEGS! He's a handsome guy!


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

He is a very cool puppy! I love your training updates. You're so dedicated to your training and it really shows. Brae is definitely into that gawky growing stage, isn't he? LOL


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

You guys are right... He's not a puppy anymore! 

Here's a photo that sums up how Soro (still) feels about Brae:


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Sor and Brae are both pretty similar, as I've mentioned. But Soro is like a tank. He just rolls into whatever situation suits his fancy. When he greets people, the best way I can subtitle the situation is Soro would say, "HI. HERE I AM. Now pet me." Brae would be the one going, "Hi hi hi hi hi hi! Ohhhhh won't you pleaaaaaase pet meeeeee????!!" I am sure a lot of how Brae is now is due to his puppy personality. But even from the first moment, it was clear that Brae is so, so sweet. Soro is too, an absolute doll around people. But Sor has the confidence of an old soul who knows with absolute certainty how interactions play out. Brae is all wiggles and appeasement. 

I am kind of sad sometimes because I am sure Soro would be happier without Brae in his life. And I think Brae would have less limits if Sor wasn't there. For example, I was training with Brae today and a reward bounced close to Soro. Before I could say anything, Brae was bounding towards it. Soro was lying with his chin on the ground and didn't even bother getting up, but he lifted his lips and gave Brae an ugly snarl. Brae backed off and didn't get the treat. Not only that, but he wouldn't go near that entire area afterwards, and I had to move the training mat to a different location. (Brae is by no means afraid of Soro and greets Soro with lots of licks and wiggles every day... But he is careful). But at the end of the day, I am going to play the selfish owner card and say that I love both dogs and I couldn't do without either of them!


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

As long as Soro doesn't try to eat Brae, all is good. Threatening is fine. Eventually, Brae may push it and realize that he's fast enough to elude grumblings and threats ;-) ... so he can 'steal' treats within snarling range...

Does Brae get play dates with other dogs?


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

trust and respect.... when you see (your two) learning and applying these skills you know it will be fine as your pup matures into adult hood.. what you described in the treat incident, is exactly what happen and they were both successful.. very positive learning for both individuals . And the next time you train you will make the change to move the training area to a different space for more distance.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Yeah, I'm not worried about them. I just wished Soro enjoyed the puppy more... But went into this fully expecting him not to.

And yes, Brae gets plenty of play dates with other dogs so someone will put up with him!


----------



## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Lol, Soro is the epitome of an old grumpy man in this picture.


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

I just love Soro's face in that picture. I'm glad he got his point across to Brae without having to make any contact and that Brae gave him his due respect.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Yes, Brae still has the scars from last time he got too close. But HEY, both dogs played a game of chase for like 30 seconds yesterday. I was amazed!


----------



## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

On the other hand, Brae backs off and doesn't start a fight, which is far more than my belgian would have done even as a puppy. 
So I think its good your boy respects your other dog's boundaries!


----------



## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I wouldn't feel bad! I'm sure all of my dogs would rather be the only one and get my undivided attention. It's good that he's learning to respect Soro's space at an early age though. All of my dogs have gotten it from Ryker. Unfortunately when you have multiple dogs some conflict is inevitable. Soro has been your only dog for so long that a long adjustment period would be expected. Ryker is just now starting to accept Beira more and she is a respectful adult that has been with us for 6 months!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I have had exactly one ...conflict between my dogs that even escalated to the point of a snap in the past 5+ years, and I am still absolutely positive they'd all prefer being only dogs. They exist in the same house, they occasionally play, but they ignore each other 23.5 hours a day. Okay, the puppy might prefer having another dog around right now, but he's young, dumb, and that's already changing. Not that he doesn't still like play, but the more his relationship with people grows the more he's finding what other dogs offer just isn't all that great.

Brae's gorgeous and I LOVE that picture.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I wonder if dogs moving into larger and established packs/families have less conflict? Because I know a few people who have 5+ dogs and they seem to have very few conflicts, if any. But maybe that's a fluke.

But I was expecting some conflict because Soro is Soro. I agree that it is wonderful that Brae backs off. He is not submissive by any means but very appeasing, for now, and very sweet. He just wants others to play with him. Things slide off his back like water. So in big ways, I am very lucky to have gotten this personality while having Soro. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long for Soro to snap and I always knew it was a matter of 'when' not 'if'. I DO expect a scuffle or two when Brae matures. I hope I am wrong, and I don't expect it to be anything damage inducing or requiring a vet visit. But simply accepting that I have one very grumpy dog selective dog and another male that will be coming into his own quite soon. 

Popcorn, anyone?


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I suspect that if you have dogs who have problem with other dogs, period, you're probably going to have some scuffling (or outright fighting) almost no matter what. I also think that more dogs means more ...range of personality and more potential for diffusing situations that might otherwise escalate. 

If Kylie and Bug were the only two dogs in my house, I'm not going to lie: They'd fight. Bug likes to try to get Kylie to play. Kylie does not play with dogs often and never in the way Bug wants her to. But there are other dogs, who will play with her. So she turns her attention to them, or they intercept her before she's done more than mildly irritated Kylie. Similar dynamics play out amongst all 5 of them. 

Thud's food aggressive (with other dogs, not people), but that is what it is and we only feed in crates, anyway, so that's a non-issue. 

I hadn't ever really thought of it before, but you're right - I think most households with a bunch of dogs tend to have little in the way of scuffling/fighting. Some of it's probably self-selective. The puppies are raised within a group, and that's their normal, and I could never, ever, bring an adult dog that wasn't solidly dog friendly in.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I don't blame you! Soro is an easier dog to live with in so many ways. But having Brae and seeing him so social with other dogs has reminded me how hard and restricting Soro's dog issues have been. 

I'll take another Soro any day because he is an amazing dog and my baby boy always. But as I keep saying, in many ways Brae has been so easy next to him. I mean, we will see how his personality, sociability and tolerances change as he matures.


----------



## gingerman (Dec 27, 2013)

can you post photos of brae on here? can't seem to access the photobucket photos


----------



## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I think you just don't hear about the conflicts in large groups because 
1. The owner has learned to handle and manage the individual dogs after having 3+ 
2. Some people are just lucky and don't get a dog with serious behavioral issues. 
3. When you have 3+ dogs it's easier to match personalities (Dog 1 doesn't like other dogs, but dog 2 and 3 do and keep each other busy, resulting in less bothering of dog 1)
4. Having 3+ dogs, the angry dog learns to be more tolerant (This is only my personal experience). 

Adding Gypsy was a tough learning curve for me when it came to multi dog coexisting with Ryker. Adding Panzer was another learning curve, but at least I had the management tools that I learned from adding Gypsy to make it easier. Adding dog 4 I know exactly what to expect and when. I am also forced to use more management like gates and crates just because of the logistics of 4 dogs which results in less conflict. 

I also don't think you should worry too much about things changing as Brae matures. You already know his personality now and I do not think it's going to change much. I haven't noticed a huge hormonal change at sexual maturity with any of my dogs except Ryker who already had behavioral issues as a puppy.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

gingerman said:


> can you post photos of brae on here? can't seem to access the photobucket photos


I will once I get am imgur account or something. It's annoying that photobucket did what it did since my photos from 6 years back on these forums were photobucket. I'll get around to it one day 



jade5280 said:


> I think you just don't hear about the conflicts in large groups because
> 1. The owner has learned to handle and manage the individual dogs after having 3+
> 2. Some people are just lucky and don't get a dog with serious behavioral issues.
> 3. When you have 3+ dogs it's easier to match personalities (Dog 1 doesn't like other dogs, but dog 2 and 3 do and keep each other busy, resulting in less bothering of dog 1)
> ...


I agree with the group dynamics thing! With the sexual maturity thing, I guess I am nervous because Soro had a major change in personality. Yeah, he also already had behavior issues. Mostly, resource guarding which wasn't even a big deal. But he truly did love playing with dogs in general, once upon a time. And then *poof* it went away. I'm sure I did him no good by continuing to go to dog parks and such. And I fully admit that I could have missed a lot of subtle details at that age where I didn't know a fraction of what I do now. But something about him made it so that he is totally untrustworthy around dogs today. I am just preparing for the worst while hoping for the best! But I am sure you are right


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Around 10 mos or so, you may not get a personality change ... it sounds like Brae is fairly stable ... but you may get more grumbling from Soro, as Brae begins to lose his puppy license. ;-)


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Long time no post (about my own dogs)! You won’t recognize Brae anymore. He’s 6.5 months now and around 48lbs. Some photos, a tug drive/training video, and a long summary are ahead.

As a reminder, here he is as an 8.5 week old:









Here he is now:












































(Soro has not killed him yet)

In short, I love him to pieces! Things remain pretty similar. He still is not very challenging and still a joy to work with. The biggest developments have been in the freedoms I’ve allowed him and his ability to settle. He has graduated from crate/leash when out in the house, to exercise pen attached to crate in the house. He regularly settles in the pen or even puts himself into his crate to nap or chew on things. Very seldom he will get into crazy mode and flip around with a toy in there (think, that classic video with the Mal puppy used to deter people from high drive dogs). Really though, it’s seldom. And honestly, I’ve seen very few ‘zoomy’ moments. Believe me, they are there. But I think we just train so much and he just gets out so much that he is mostly… content.

He LOVES to swim now! Well, not like how some dogs will throw themselves in the water just to be in water. But if I throw something in the lake or river, he is going to get it. No matter the current or the distance. We’ve done a few paddleboarding trips and he has been awesome with it. His focus is still spot on and I am not rushing to teach him new things… I anticipate he will be able to learn anything I ever want to teach him in the future. In terms of behaviors he knows: sit, down, wait (ie, stay), stand, spin, twirl, bang (play dead), cop cop, walking between my legs, leg weaves, bringing things, toys in a box, paw, catching, balancing food on nose, tug, drop, target, sit pretty (no duration yet), skateboard, in, up, off, through, switch, circling something, mat, crate, nosework. I guess he knows quite a lot. Soro makes me biased! 

To date he has still not destroyed a single inappropriate thing. Outside of medical reasons (UTI or urgent diarrhea) he has had no potty accidents in any indoor spaces. These days, I come home during my lunch break or have my partner let him out rather than bring him to work every day. He is holding it 8+ hrs overnight and 5-6 hrs during the day. He may be able to go longer, but I am in no rush to push his capacity and will continue to aim for easy success. 

He is totally undraped in the car and at home now, and he is almost ready to be uncrated in the car. I’ve tested it a couple of times with great success; he just settled. But mostly, I just want to crate him as long as possible  When I come home he is calm and does not make a peep. He lies calmly in his crate until I ask him if he is “Ready”. I’ve always made it a point to have entries be as boring as possible. In the mornings we do a quick potty break and he either goes in the crate or in the pen and he will self entertain or calmly wait while I slowly get ready, use the computer, eat breakfast… I think he’s really picking up the fact that nothing is going to happen if he whines or is excited. When he’s on, he’s ON. I can’t even release him to go take a break, unless there is a dog friend to play with. Otherwise, he is right in front of me waiting for me to do something with him. His focus is actually kind of unbelievable. I think a lot of it is him, but I also have rewarded eye contact thousands of times, probably dozens of times a day throughout the day, since day one. Still do. 

No handling issues. I brush him and trim his nails every week. We are still going slow, but it has gone from socialization/exposure, to functional. He’s shedding now and his nails are growing more quickly, so I am glad that I worked on this in the crucial period. He’s environmentally stable, and fearless. I have not seen him shaken yet. 

He is still social and appropriate with any person or dog that he greets. Super sweet, loves to cuddle. I have been training with positive reinforcement, negative punishment and a ton of management. I have used positive punishment at times (scolding, yanking, putting my hands on him) very, very rarely. I would call those abusive moments where I’ve lost my temper, rather than actual attempts at training. It bothers me to some degree that he ‘knows’ anger yields scary consequences, or that a certain tone of my voice is negative, as Soro knows, because of the punishment that has happened. But by and large, we have a wonderful relationship and I am always striving to be better.

The only difficulties I’ve had with him were my concerns with his ability to settle in the 
first few months, whining (really, my misophonia), and his inherent nature to consume inedible things (leading to many bouts of diarrhea and vet bills). A lot of these things are more me than him. Like for settling, I needed to leave him room to mature. For whining, it was my problem. With eating things, I have to just accept that he can’t just have any toys, or be unattended outside while I socialize (he eats sticks).

Great drives for food and toys. Very moderate personality. I can’t even put into concise words yet what I mean by that. But I am biased, always, by Soro. Soro has a presence. He is bold, assertive, self assured, expressive. Every person who meets him remembers Soro for the dog that he is, not how he looks. Soro helped a child overcome a panic attack the other day, without me there, just by approaching the kid in that space. Soro makes people feel like they are loved. Brae is sweet, determined, super-duper-stable, watchful, endearing, eager, hardy, sensitive. People remember Brae because no one’s ever seen a Dutch shepherd before. But it’s just… a different aura I guess! I know he still has so much growing to do and I am so curious what he will be like as an adult. But I am thrilled with him. I am enjoying him so much and he is everything I wanted him to be. The future is bright.

Here is a video with some sloppy training and a lot of tug. That is his greatest joy in life!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying he is an 'easy' dog. At every turn, I am 100000% grateful that I have been as strict as I've been and managed as much as I have. I'm not some crazy exceptional trainer or anything. But for the 'average' dog owner who just casually trains and allows puppies to have a lot of freedoms... It would have been an absolute nightmare. Because deep down he is impulsive, bitey, clingy, in your face, and easily aroused. I can write a novel about all the microscopic details I took into consideration in my actions and his training.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

You're right. He really, actually, does sound like Kiran (though Kiran has plenty of zoomy moments, and I enjoy them enormously), especially the 'moderate personality I can't put into words' and that disclaimer. I STILL can't really define what I mean except in saying really, really, balanced, and really, really, a nice fit for me and pleasant to work with and be out and about with. He's not EASY, per-se, but he's so precisely what I expected and what I wanted that it feels easy, maybe. I don't know, but they're good boys and Brae is beautiful.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Canyx said:


> DISCLAIMER: I am not saying he is an 'easy' dog. At every turn, I am 100000% grateful that I have been as strict as I've been and managed as much as I have. I'm not some crazy exceptional trainer or anything. But for the 'average' dog owner who just casually trains and allows puppies to have a lot of freedoms... It would have been an absolute nightmare. Because deep down he is impulsive, bitey, clingy, in your face, and easily aroused. I can write a novel about all the microscopic details I took into consideration in my actions and his training.


that is the main thing,,, you get the breed, and love them for it, love working with who they are and what they naturally give.

i love drivey type breeds, love their behaviors and responses to the world they live in and with working with them... to someone else it would drive them crazy... i love the CO's but it's a snooze parade.. endearing breed, but gosh '''' "HELLO" still waiting... hey where you going..... lol... 

Love hearing about your pup and so happy your having a wonderful time...


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

He sounds great! I think you're a better trainer than you give yourself credit for!

He is an amazing looking dog. How are they different from Malinois, besides being brindle? Someone told me once that they are essentially the same, but I'm not sure that person knew as much as she was putting out there.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

They are the same or different depending on who you talk to. I've heard they can both come out of the same litter, brindle being Dutchies and fawn being Mals. 
Aesthetically, I've seen more stocky/burly Dutchies (through photos) compared to more gracile Mals. I've heard some people say Dutchies are harder and more stubborn. But I think it largely depends on lines and I think breed elitists on both ends all tend to say big things. 

Mals are better known in the states in general though, and I think a lot more popular. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a larger concentration of mals leaning away from their true working drives/temperaments compared to dutchies.

I'm a good trainer, objectively speaking. I just wish I was a better person with a better temper sometimes


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

7 months old this weekend!









Happy as a clam









Soro still dislikes him and he is still cautious of Soro. This is what happens when I try to pose them next to each other

Brae: "Hi mom!!!!"
Sor: "I don't want to do anything near him."









Sor: *sulkkkkk*
Brae: *lip lick* about to lie down away from Sor. Look at both dogs shift their weight away from each other like they think the other dog is gross!









But watch what happens when I pull out some mats/beds and do some 'place' training









Really cool, playing around with dogs' perceptions of space. Both boys immediately relaxed into this familiar training exercise.


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

He is beautiful! That's an interesting series of pictures with the two of them.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

He is gorgeous - and he looks like a dog!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Sandakat said:


> He is beautiful! That's an interesting series of pictures with the two of them.


Thanks! Yeah, having Brae has shown me how sensitive Soro can be. Even right now is a good example. Brae is usually in his pen. Soro took a while to adjust to having pup in the house in a crate, then adjusted to having pup in pen. I'm about to go to work and Brae is having some out of pen time loose in the house. Soro is sulking next to me 



CptJack said:


> He is gorgeous - and he looks like a dog!


I know!!! I keep looking at his puppy photos. The first year of a dog's life is unbelievable!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm convinced, as a dog owner and trainer, that training tires dogs out more than an equivalent amount of exercise. The trend has been if I take Brae out for a nice long outing, like a 2 hour hike or playing fetch quite mindlessly, he will come home and shake a toy around in his pen for the next half our to an hour before settling down for a bit. If I train for 45-60 minutes, he puts himself in his crate and falls asleep.

"I'm trying to stay awake because you're staring at me and that means something might happen so....."









*nope*









Don't get me wrong - this dog gets plenty of exercise. Not an insane amount though. I live in a mountain town where extreme sports and hyper active lifestyles (for people and dogs) are common. We don't do ultramarathons and he doesn't run double digit miles next to my bike (yet). In fact, the air quality is so bad right now due to fires that it is downright "hazardous" for people to spend prolonged amounts of time outside at all. I live in a ~800sq ft house of which Brae only has access to like a third of it. But training is what puts him to bed and night and keeps him sane. Before getting him, I was wondering what my lifestyle might need to look like to keep a high drive, high energy dog from working lines. Turns out, it doesn't require an obscene amount of physical activity at all.

ETA: Of course, very intense calorie burning exercise tires out a dog too. The other day we spent around an hour playing fetch and he was repeatedly going into the river and bringing sticks back against the current... And he slept well after that. But who's got time for that every day?!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I remember having a very similar revelation with Molly and I am still sometimes amazed by how little exercise she needs. She could actually use more for purpose of conditioning but it's not what she actually wants and needs most of the time - fun, but very not necessary for her. Of course, she's also a very different dog/breed in her way and also THREE, not < 1 year. What she craves most isn't even *training*, it's simply the act of being usefully engaged with me, in some kind of activity that has some meaning and structure to her. Some of that's physical stuff (ie: Disc or agility) and some of it's actual training, but some of it's stuff like helping me do laundry (she moves clothes from the hamper to the washer and pulls things out of the dryer for me to fold). 

Kiran's a very different animal. If I tried to train Kiran for an hour - or even 15 minutes - without heavy use of play breaks his brain would leak out of his ear, and he'd either over stimulate and bite everything, or stress out and go flat and disengage. He might, sometimes, get a total hour of training out of 24, but that comes down to a lot of 5-10 minute sessions (with at least one break even within a 5 minute session). He DOES however definitely NEED some pretty serious physical movement before he's able to use his brain. I am going to miss swimming like crazy when it gets cold. It's just so convenient.

...and come to that Molly also, when presented with difficult/new activities in training also has got to blow off steam and do play breaks probably every 10 minutes. Not for long but burning off energy built up from self-control's necessary to keep her truly in the game, even if it's only one ball toss or ten seconds of hard tug. Doesn't really 'need' exercise in general at all, though.

But like I said, very different and they're both pretty soft dogs. Not the same way Kylie is (Kylie doesn't DO being told she's wrong even via just resetting and trying again only easier), but to... pressure/expectation. No problem with being wrong/trying again, but they tend to... build stress and frustration VERY quickly and then melt. Molly goes OCD/repeats something on loop with increasing franticness, Kiran barks and bites or starts throwing displacement behavior. Frequent playbreaks prevent that. 

(I'm sorry, you totally needed me talking at length about my dogs, didn't you? BUT BRAE IS GORGEOUS. I love the intensity in his even sleepy expression.)


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

He's still young, yet ... and it's not winter and brisk with snow on the ground ;-) But, you still have lots that you can teach him. I'm also hoping that Brae will help to rejuvenate Soro.

Another nice thing about training is that although he gets better, he won't build up endurance so that he 'needs' more.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> Another nice thing about training is that although he gets better, he won't build up endurance so that he 'needs' more.


No, but he might build expectation and turn into a nag (Molly)  Fortunately the enforced downtime that's part of his life probably means there's not much risk of that.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I've been impressed with his attention span for training right from the get go. I feel like I've been able to do 30-60 minute training sessions since I got him. Though of course, up till 16 weeks of age I prioritized other things. For me training and play typically go hand in hand anyways. I think Brae doesn't need to take breaks, traditionally speaking, because we move onto a different task so quickly or the toy reward part is his break from mental work. Either way, I love it!

Last night in our hourish session we worked on: nosework (hiding odor around the house), bow, wave, reverse around me, leg weaves, nose targeting, closing drawers/doors, paw targeting, distinguishing one paw from the other, wave, balancing treats, air snapping, catching treats, heelwork, cleaning up toys, holds, spin/twirl, play dead, position changes (sit/down/stand), side stepping


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I definitely do toy play as rewards, especially with Molly, but when I say 'play break' I mean 'take your toy and go run a lap'. Then she comes back ready to keep going. Similar with Kiran, though his breaks are longer and we stop all around sooner and just plain play. I kick a large ball, or throw the tug, or throw a tennis ball and sit (which indicates 'rules for automatic return with it are off). 

But I also do a lot of 'start button' type work with both, wherein they determine if they want to work or not, and the breaks provide them with the option of re-engaging with me or not. If they're working it's because they choose to work. They more they mature, the more they show me what they're ready for and want to do. But disengaging from me completely is something I prompt EVERY training session, no matter how short or long, or how many things I might work on (I never drill anything). If they want more, they need to show me they want it or I walk, things are put away and we go back inside. Not to crates or anything just. Play/training time is over. 

It's... different but no regrets. That particular Fenzi Class (worked up!) really changed how I train and into, what I acknowledge, is weird for a lot of people. It's been life changing with Molly in particular. Molly got overtrained, big time and it was really horrible for her. My big goal with Kiran was not to repeat that mistake. (I'm not saying you're doing that with Brae. He is a very different dog).


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I agree! I give him the release cue dozens of times, probably every minute or two. He just sits and stares at me waiting for more. Outside I do the same thing and sometimes Brae will sniff for 5 seconds then come back to me. But I definitely think that letting the dog decide how much they want to work is very important.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah. The real problem with Molly and what I mean by overtraining is that until she was specifically taught to disengage and say 'I can't', she wouldn't. Even at 8, 10, 12 weeks old if the opportunity to work was there, she'd take it. Which was great! Until it wasn't. "How to tell me no" is one of the weirdest things I've ever had to teach a dog but with her? It had to be taught, very specifically, as a skill and has to be ...prompted, still. 

Because, yeah, the dog standing and staring at me to do more was great. Until that same dog will stand there staring or barking for work while having a complete mental and emotional breakdown from stress (some of it self-inflected from the inability to take a break, sometimes environmental, sometimes frustration at increasing difficulty) and is just wildly DOING and wanting to continue to DO but has no brain - or ability to decompress themselves or indicate a problem before they're a frantic, mindless puddle. 

Basically her work ethic is fantastic, but she has NO ability to release pressure. Kind of like the same way she'll run after a ball if it involves going off a cliff or won't limp while chasing a ball and I look at her later and she's got broken nails and no paw pads. only with mental things. The only self-preservation she has is me. 

It's. More annoying than I expected it to be, to be honest.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Oh I gotcha! Yeah, that was a thing I worried about when diving into this breed. Thankfully, Brae has just the right amount of self preservation to fearlessness. I would count Soro as stable but not fearless and Brae is a step above him. But still cautious enough to not sail off a cliff... Though in high drive mode he might... 

A few weeks ago I threw a toy in some harmless current leading into rapids (I knew/could easily reach the entire river bank) and he sailed down stream after it. But he did eventually stop and realize he was getting too far from me, and he gave up on the toy and came back. He DID go quite a ways though and paddled right into the rapids with no hesitation. I sort of wanted to test him 

I think Brae's desire to be with ME overrides a lot of other things and I am fine with that. Soro's totally different. If I cross a river he's not comfortable with he wouldn't do it.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Shots and pics from this morning's training session:





I regret not taking more videos of things in progress with Soro when he was younger. Brae is working on a lot of stuff! He LOVES training.

Other developments since my last big post... He now rides loose in the passenger area of the car. He is perfect (knocks on wood), very calm in the back and lies down. Doesn't bother with windows and no fuss if I leave him in there, though I haven't tried long departures. I worked VERY hard to make this happen. It involved things like waiting in the parking lot of a hiking trail and just standing next to my car until he lied down in the crate, in which I'd open the door, leash up and let him out. If he got up before my cue, I'd close the car door and wait again. All the crate and calm training in the crate did transfer once I removed the crate, which is nice. And I will continue to reinforce it... And I hope it holds!

Also, no photos of this since I was pretty much holding my breath the entire time.... A couple days ago Soro and Brae were on the spring pole at the same time. It was a pretty intense situation since they both had different toys in their mouth and were both tugging their hardest in different directions. It was a pretty stupid thing for me to let happen (Soro didn't wait his turn), and I'm not sure what would've happened if Brae tried to re-grip and accidentally nipped Soro or something. BUT, they had a great time and both dropped immediately when I told them to. I have two very good boys.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

He is such a great dog. 

Actually they're both great dogs <3


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks! Did you catch the little bit at the end where Soro wanted in on the 'bring me things' game?


----------



## NorCalFMD (Dec 12, 2016)

Great video! I wish I had half your skill as a trainer, or even a quarter. I'm just not getting there with my dog.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Aw, don't say that! Didn't you make great strides with Klara's reactivity? Or am I confusing you with someone...?


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Insane!! Sor and Brae actually PLAYED today. First time, and it took 6 months to get here!
























Rare image of Sor self handicapping (for a split second)










In other news, Brae is almost 8 months old and just shy of 60#. He is estimated to be 66-75# full grown and filled out. He and Sor have the same frame now. Crazy! 
No issues with training or major changes in behavior to report. He is still so fun to train and we are casually working on new tricks all the time. The diarrhea still hasn't permanently resolved and he is on and off tylosin. But it hasn't impacted our lives in a big way. First backpacking trip soon. Life is good with my two goobers.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

So Cool! Soro looks 5 years younger! I imagine he sleeps better afterwards. Brae looks so aware and alert in the last picture.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I LOVE those pictures of them playing <3


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I know!! I am thrilled! Everyone at work knows Soro and they were floored when I told them! In the last two plus years a handful of them have seen him play ONCE with a coworker's dog and ever since then he has only overwhelmed and scared the same dog. One other coworker's dog that he hung out the most with, hiked beautifully with, and then after over a year she invited him to play and he played back... That ended up in a fight where Sor pinned her by the neck. 

So this is a momentous occasion! (and I am still not letting my guard down)


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Awesome it does take time to build relationships built on trust... so happy for yall... I figured it would take minium of a year for the new adult male to build relationships of full trust with the females.. He has spent the first part establishing his position to all of them, that his presence in the group is word. Abhik wanting to stalk up to the fence where Adele is Ratmir struts into place and everyone is going on their own business and stays in their own business.. He truly is making and building strong personal relationships with each of them .. (it's a nice calmness in the group)


----------



## NorCalFMD (Dec 12, 2016)

That play video is awesome! I hope they keep it up.

On a side note, is that a dog sleeping bag in the photo? I didn't know there was such a thing- can I ask how much work it took to get them used to it? My pup hasn't been camping yet, and I'm totally unsure of how we'll make it work. She gets cold easily but she;s too big to share my sleeping bag.


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Aww.. good boy Soro! Them playing is just too cute! Even if you thought it would never happen it is super awesome when it does.


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

I love that they're playing together! Just wonderful!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

NorCalFMD said:


> On a side note, is that a dog sleeping bag in the photo? I didn't know there was such a thing- can I ask how much work it took to get them used to it? My pup hasn't been camping yet, and I'm totally unsure of how we'll make it work. She gets cold easily but she;s too big to share my sleeping bag.


Yep! I have one Ruffwear and one Hurtta. It took a little work, like a few minutes per dog, for me and the dogs to figure out how to use them. I think the Ruffwear is more user friendly since it has a zipper. The Hurtta is a little bigger and the dog needs to learn to go in C-shape. There are other differences between the two, but I like them both! 

I actually just got back from my backpacking trip and enjoyed having the bags. Both dogs slept in the rain fly vestibules. Soro was much more settled in them and stayed in either bag for the entire nights. Brae was much less content to settle and always ended up on top of the bag and shivering by morning. He was also tethered with a leash so that he wouldn't go on his own adventures overnight. Oh well, he'll learn! But both dogs also enjoyed lying on top of the bags at campsites. Both bags took dirt and moisture really well and were like brand new after a good shake and sitting in the sun for a few minutes. We were following a river too, so there was plenty of dirt, sand, and water! We were originally going to go a more mountainous route, but there was a foot of snow about 7000' and our planned loop was 7-9k. It was chilly at night by the rivers, but not frigid or dangerous... I will assume Brae would have stayed in his bag if we were in colder weather. 

So far, the dogs have played EVERY morning since! Even Soro, at 11 years, hiking double digits, still had it in him to play with Brae first thing in the morning at camp sites. Before we left, they even played a little TUG in my little yard! Insane! Since Soro is usually very guarded about his toys and has only played tug with ONE DOG in the last decade plus. Also, riding in the van towards our trail, Brae was being a goon and rolled 100% INTO Soro. Soro didn't seem thrilled and moved away, but that would have resulted in a bite a few months ago or with a different dog. I'm really enjoying how their relationship is developing! I still don't think they'll be cuddle buddies, BFFs... And I will still never just leave them loose and alone. But this is already miles from my original expectation, which is 'coexist'.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some random pics from the last week.


----------



## Himannv (Jan 30, 2017)

Love the pics. 

How did you train him to "hold things" and balance the treat on his nose without eating it? Sorry to jump in with a training question, just seems like a great trick to train.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks!

Both require some degree of patience. For balance, I teach chin targeting first so I can steady the dog's chin. Then I hold a treat up and mark/reward for stillness. The treat gradually moves closer until it's on the nose. For hold, I start by marking/rewarding any mouthing of an object (no problem for Brae ), then mark and reward longer holds. It's literally a half second at first, then you increase.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some spring pole fun this morning


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Oh wow he's so big already!!! He looks fab.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks! Yeah, he is gonna be bigger than I anticipated. But that is all fine and dandy 

I started a spreadsheet of behaviors we are working on since we are quickly getting to the point where I can't keep track of them all. So far we are working on over 50 behaviors (some with visual and verbal cues). He has great proficiency with some of them. But everything is coming along nicely! Future trick champion in the making. Soro knows about 80 different behaviors and over 80 different cues. If I stay at the same level of motivation, I anticipate that Brae will exceed Soro's 'database', and not only recognize but be proficient in so many behaviors, in 2 years. But I'm in no rush to make Brae become anything or get any titles. Mostly, I am just enjoying him so much and having a fun and easy time training. I will also shift gears and work much harder on strength and endurance building next summer (weight pulling, jump tricks, longer bike distances, etc.) when his joints allow it.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Musings....

I keep thinking back to our backpacking trip and one particular moment stands out to me. This was the second day, a few miles in, and I sat down on a steep trail to admire the view. Soro plopped down because he's old. But Brae did not rest. That part is not surprising. However, instead of chewing on a stick or biting the grass or sniffing around, he just paced back and forth. Back and forth. Back and forth. Not far, just past my partner and then back past me. I would call it neurotic if I didn't know any better (but he is not a neurotic dog). It isn't for lack of exercise or training. I think he really just doesn't know how to rest and he had no idea how to cope other than pacing. The moment I put him on leash, he lied down.

No off switch. I have spent the MOST time and energy building it. And this trait comes with it's positives too, like endless training opportunities and more natural focus than I've ever seen. At 14 weeks old I could train for 30 minutes straight and he still wanted more. At 8 months old, I have days like last night where I trained for over an hour straight. There was never a lapse in focus and he never asked for a break. He barely even drank water in between exercises.

So that's the balance I constantly play with in my life. For all of this, he is so easy to live with. I can do nothing from waking up well into the afternoon on my weekends and he does not throw tantrums, have zoomies, or pester me for things. He just plays with his toys. Or he lies down and sleeps (gasp!). He isn't even a live wire (jumping up any time he thinks something will happen). He's chill. In his crate/pen. 

I'm thinking about this because, as you all know, I've actually had a really easy time so far. I manage and restrict like no one else I know. But it's been easy. And then I wondered, 'well, if it's so easy then why shouldn't I tell people to get a dog like him because he is so fun and rewarding to work with, and so eager to please?' And I think the answer is not because he is bitey, or has a ton of energy, or is strong... I mean, it's totally subjective and I can see how all of those traits can be hard to deal with too. But many dogs have those traits. I think lack of an off switch (in combination with those other traits), is what makes a dog hard. And from my experience training, I've found that MOST dogs out there, even incredibly athletic and 'out of control' ones, have *some* level of an off switch. And I think Brae came with none. Zero. Not a faintest idea what that is.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

But, he's still very young. He may mellow into an off-switch after a year, or after 3 years old ... I imagine he currently has a 'idle' switch, where he settles in a calm alert. Maybe his off-switch will be a subtle transition mellow into a relaxed alert ;-)


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I think he will! I know that puppies and young dogs find it hard to settle. But it's like he doesn't at all unless I employ some management. Even at 9 weeks of age, regardless of how much exercise and training he did not just take a nap. Ever. He only napped if I put him in his crate, and then in his pen after months of using that. And I do mean "months". 

Also, I later learned from my breeder that Brae's mom did not settle, even after maturity. Brae's mom has had a few litters over the years and his relatives owners commonly used a "correction phase" in training to teach their dogs to settle. My breeder used corrections to teach Brae's mom how to settle because otherwise she wouldn't. So it's in his genetics. Some dogs that my breeder has, she brags that they have great off switches in their profiles. I had in mind that Brae's mother was most lacking in this category and contemplated that before deciding on his litter. 

Again, not an issue for me and not a complaint. Honestly, given that "off switch" was at the top of my list of needs when I was still searching for a puppy, it is shocking to me that I am not more bothered. Just something I'm pondering today.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I... am going to gently say that managing it isn't training it and while you may have him just mature into it, probably you're going to have to actually train him to settle in the absence of aids like leashes, crates, and ex-pens, if you want/expect him to, well, settle in the absence of them. As opposed to using them to sort of force a settle.

That he does settle with them says he's capable. He just doesn't understand that he should/hasn't actively been taught to do it, yet. And from what you've said the vast, vast, majority of his time is 'working' or 'confined' which further strengthens that association for him. Why should he settle outside confinement when life to date says that if he's out he's DOING THINGS? You know?

Though of course if it doesn't bother you, it's not really a big deal either way. It just depends on whether you want it enough to put the work into doing it, as with most things (see also: Why I've yet to teach Kiran loose leash anything.)


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I know that management isn't training. I do both! I heavily rewarded for calm in the crate and calm in the pen, out of pocket and with a remote treat dispensing system. Of course, any Kongs or treats and chews he gets in those spaces further reinforces those spaces too. A great example is last night we ate dinner with him loose. Automatically, he went to his space and chewed on a bone. So he was thrown into a real life situation outside of the confines of his space... And he chose his space. I am not just expecting him to magically settle upon maturity (though I am seeing him choose to settle more, little by little, outside of training it). But he has a strong foundation of knowing where to be (through training AND habit), and how to act in certain situations.

I don't think management without training yields consistent results. But I think pure management can SOMETIMES consistently affect behavior even when the tool is removed, because I think habit forming is still a thing, and muscle memory too. 

I get that I could have just tried my best to train him to settle sans crate or pen. But I truly think that would have been an every-waking-moment kind of job with how focused on him I'd have to be and the rate of reinforcement it would require. IE, I would have no personal relaxation at all.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

And yeah, he is usually either doing things or in his pen. But his pen is in a central location, simultaneously in the kitchen and living room. He is never more than 15 feet away from me when I'm home. So the way my life is, he isn't removed from everyday household things like being 'with' us when we watch a movie, eat, cook, etc. This means the separation between 'in pen' and 'out of pen' is not very dramatic. I wouldn't say that he is deprived of human contact, sights, smells, or really anything a normal house dog would have except the ability to instigate interactions whenever he wants.

Also, he does get out of pen time regularly, but I am very careful about when it happens. After rigorous physical exercise, no way! It amps him up more and even in his pen he's usually throwing a toy around. After rigorous mental exercise, he's generally pretty good about just 'hanging out' and chewing on his things. Training him out of the pen entails gentle praise every now and then if he is doing something I like. If I turn it into real mark-and-reward training he won't chill out because then he's in training mode. So I guess in a large way, yeah I do expect him to 'naturally' learn to settle outside of his pen later in life. But again, he has a strong foundation of being rewarded for being where I want him to be, doing things I want him to do. And the times he is totally loose are calculated so he is further practicing calm behavior (because he is more mentally tired).


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Current training wisdom relies on behavioral training. Fortunately, from past experience and current observation, you know that Brae, just like Chaser, is a thinking dog. So, I am very confident that as he learns that one of his options is to simply settle and wait, he will choose to 'shut down'. Of course, his 'shut down' off-switch might always be similar to Soro having one eye open ;-)


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I don't think Brae will ever be as chill as Sor 

THAT SAID. As I am typing this.... 

We had another training heavy night so I ended with a food toy and then went and did my thing. I am sitting in an armchair eating dinner, using my computer and putting my bowl of food on the arm and such... And Brae is just lying on the ground, not even against me, chewing on a bone! He didn't even come to me once for attention! Incredible.

Also, a huge reason why I am experimenting with more loose time now is his relationship with Sor has changed. They are playing consistently and Sor has been VERY tolerant. Brae can make contact with him in ways that other dogs can't. The other night I was petting Brae and he rolled onto Sor, who was nearby. Soro didn't even growl! He just calmly sniffed Brae, then got up and moved away. Also, it used to be that Soro would get very concerned and clingy any time Brae was out. Soro seems to be his normal self even though Brae has more freedom. I am not letting my guard down and for the life of Soro the two will never be alone unsupervised. But now that I can reasonably predict that Sor is as safe as he could ever be around Brae, and it is much more comfortable having them loose at the same time. 

Did not think I would have this at the 8 month mark!









Also, for context, what you see in that photo is pretty much my house. Yeah, there's a bathroom and a bedroom I'm only in for sleeping. But there's the kitchen, the front door, his crate and pen (folded up), the edge of the coffee table on the bottom left, and a couch right beyond that outside of the frame. Brae is literally in the kitchen, or in the living room, or both, depending on how I set up the pen for him which depends on what I'm doing. All this meant to emphasize... Yeah, I am a very strict owner and I don't grant my dogs many freedoms. But they're not just tucked into a corner when I'm not working with them. They are very much family and part of the household


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

So sweet, and so cool ! Amazing to see them calm together.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some training vids from yesterday:










This last one is very much a quantity over quality, work in progress video. I've discovered it takes us 8-10 minutes to run through 40-50 behaviors that don't require huge props or space. So just running through things twice is like a 20 minute training session. That and we were going so fast, I was overwhelming his brain a bit!


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

That is awesome !!!... Always enjoy'd playing red light , green light with a group of GSD's ... miss laughing so hard with them.... Get a group and play red rover..... lol ...


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

9 month mark a few days ago

Getting big! I hope he is done growing in height!









And here's a cute 8 second video showing how much he understands not to put his head near an object near Soro (even if Soro doesn't care):





Overall, things are largely the same. I am still just thrilled with him and really enjoying it all. The subtle changes have mostly been in the settling department. A couple months ago he would NEED to have something in his mouth at all times when nothing was going on, or he'd have moments where he's thrashing in his pen with a toy. Those moments are virtually nonexistent these days. He's almost creepily mature and will chew on his chew toys for a normal amount of time before just putting his head down and going to sleep, if there is nothing going on. The first time it happened I thought it was a fluke. When it happened for days, then weeks, that's when I started letting him out of the pen more. He is on a hair trigger, as always. But because I've worked really hard on cues, it's become a trigger I can flip at will. For example, I can go through the process of getting my jacket on and filling treat pouches in preparation for going somewhere, and he'll go into his crate and lie down until I say "Ready?" 

I have stories abound of moments he's made me proud and times when he's made choices that impressed me. I actually have no accounts of anything that's gone wrong or been frustrating. Don't get me wrong - of course I've made plenty of mistakes and I get frustrated on a regular basis. But they amount to me not being awake enough, or me being impatient that evening, or something petty and minor. Like, 'oops he pulled on leash' or 'he sat when I told him to lie down'. But in terms of the big picture, he's so great. The only struggle is the diarrhea thing, which is pretty much managed with antibiotics every few days. But really, that's the only thing that is challenging.

I feel like I'm at the point where all my hard work and crazy management is paying off. Of course, I say this on a day where Brae spent most of his time free roaming the house and was very successful. I know that not every day is like this, depending on his attitude, how much exercise and what kind of exercise he's gotten on any given day. But when loose, he automatically doesn't go into the back rooms, he doesn't steal food off the coffee table, he doesn't counter surf, he doesn't bolt out doors, jump on people, or bother me when I'm eating. For all these things, it was 99.9% rewarding behaviors I like and management. The habits are sticking. I am trusting him more and more each month with less and less direct supervision. It feels awesome. 

One thing I've been looking out for is fear periods and regressions in training. And I haven't noticed them yet. Well, maybe he had one or two subtle ones. A while back, there was maybe a week where he was more wary of a particular garbage can. And by wary, I don't even mean tucked tail, trying to flee, vocalizations, or anything dramatic. He stared at it a few seconds longer than normal. Then we kept walking and within a few days everything was normal. Regressions... There was maybe a week where his sits were taking a few seconds longer than normal. I'd say the cue and he'd stare at me for 1-5 seconds before doing the behavior. I just waited him out, asked for less sits, threw the sits in between more exciting exercises, and in a few days he was back to fast and largely automatic sits. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm still waiting for it to get harder before it gets easier. But so far since I got him, it's gotten easier by the month. 

Brae and Soro continuing to get along and play is just icing on top of the cake.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some recent photos....

I'm really having fun with "hold" and he's getting real good at it.

















Handsome puppers









And whatever the heck is happening here...


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Omg I have to share this one that I just took... He was falling asleep with the bone in his mouth!


----------



## emmybear (Sep 7, 2015)

I’m jealous  He’s stunning. And seems like such a great worker! Dutchies are definitely on my list of future dogs. Probably once I have a little more dog training experience down the line. There are two in my agility class and I love them. Tons of drive and very focused.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks  I must ask, since you're in Tennessee.... Are the Dutchies in your class from Northwoods/Thunderhawk? They run a great breeding program!


----------



## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I love your updates! He's gorgeous!!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks Jade. You know... I haven't seen your crew in a while...


----------



## emmybear (Sep 7, 2015)

Is the Dutch Shepherd community pretty small and tight knit? You guessed it spot on! The two in my class belong to the owners of Thunderhawk. They’re seriously gorgeous dogs. Question because I’m curious, I’ve done research on GSDs but not Dutchies. How would you say their temperament compares to a working line GSD? I know it’s highly individual based on lines and individual dogs but in general from what you know of the breed.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

The Dutch community is tiny 
Christie was actually my first contact in the breed and she is the one who directed me to Asheley. They are good friends and have even bred their dogs at certain points. Christie is very active on Asheley's breeder FB page and vice versa. I figure, since Christie is in Tennessee and has GOOD dogs (as opposed to neurotic ones), what are the odds? For example, I had a person tell me they've seen one other Dutchie in my area and it was 'very mean and aggressive'. Bets on whether the breeder is reputable? Well, you have a good resource as your neighbor!

Equinox would know more about working line GSDs since she has one.
I have no direct experience with a known-to-be well bred working line GSD. I have worked with plenty of average pet owners who got their GSDs from backyard breeders in my area who breed their 'Czech imports' and whatnot. And I've worked with some GSDs who seem more working line than not (intense, more moderate structure, very toy driven, etc.) 

I have *heard* that Dutchies and Mals are much faster and sharper than GSDs in general. Not just because of their size and slighter build, but more of a tendency towards that frenetic, slightly neurotic energy 
Less of an off switch. Just a little 'more' in every department except size/weight. I feel like I took that exact line from someone who said it to me once.

Again, it's all anecdotal. Brae is definitely faster, in every definition of the word, than virtually any GSD I've ever met. His work style and ethic are similar to some that of the BCs I've seen. That whining/trembling with energy, GIVE ME SOMETHING TO DO - vibe. It used to be every time I shifted on the couch he would go from sleeping to standing alert in .0005 seconds. Honestly, it's not a quality I enjoy. Who can relax with that? It's great for training but even then there needs to be a lot of deliberate thought on my part because frenetic energy does not lend itself to steady work. But it's no big deal since we've worked on it and he is close to acting like a 'normal' dog in the house these days. 


But really, it totally depends. Some people will say GSDs or Dutchies are more or less stubborn, harder or softer, clingier or independent, and on and on... It totally depends on the lines and the breedings.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Adding on... I have seen people on the Dutch FB page I'm on, who own GSDs and Dutchies, compare the two. If I recall... Dutchies were closer compared to ACDs and someone mentioned how it seems like they pop out of the womb ready to go. GSD puppies have more of a 'normal' puppy stage where they toddle around and act like cute little fluffballs (with teeth), however briefly. See one of my first posts regarding how Brae acted within the first 24 hours of getting him. (Whirlwind, tasmanian devil pup, dragging full backpack across the floor, literally tearing my breeder's contract out of our hands as we were signing it, so much so that Asheley just threw a notepad on the floor to distract him, then had to take it away because he started eating the notepad. Literally biting every single thing he passed -at full speed- even though he was restricted by a leash. Carpet, shoe lace, dangling plant leave, gravel, leash). First time he saw the maple tree in my yard he tried to chew through the root.

The adolescent GSDs I have worked with still have that awkward, loping gait at times. Brae was like a little adult in a super adorable puppy body. Day one, he had the attention span to do long training sessions and in fact I have NEVER seen a lapse in his desire to train, however repetitive or even frustrating if I am trying to figure out an approach. I've done hour long sessions with him months ago. I have never seen him toddle around or trip or tumble like normal puppies do. It's like every second he is awake and moving he has a purpose. It's hard to describe. I am truly not being biased 'just because I have a Dutch shepherd'. I was genuinely surprised. I teach a Puppy class every week, so I see the range of what 'normal' 8-16 week old puppies do. That plus working at a shelter, I have seen hundreds of puppies. I have seen puppies similar to him. Usually BC or ACD mixes, one pit/X puppy comes to mind. But even so, I have very, very rarely seen this kind of energy in another puppy at a similar age.


----------



## emmybear (Sep 7, 2015)

Christie is great. I think it’s pretty cool to get to watch such a rare breed in person. I’ve seen the two she brings to class and went to a different level of class that had another one.

Thank you for the long and detailed response. It’s very helpful to hear opinions from someone with personal experience with a breed. I’m a while out from getting another dog but I like to plan and research ahead and make lists of possible breeders. Next dog will probably be a fairly moderate to high drive BC(well, as moderate as BCs get) unless I change my mind. I still need to meet more BCs to be sure. After that I’m considering a working line GSD, Dutch Shepherd, or Malinois. Just researching right now. I love GSDs but something a bit smaller and more agile for agility purposes would be nice. A more sleek and smooth coat would also be great. 

All this depends on my training skills at the time of course. My current GSD is unregistered and from random backyard bred lines with no hints of working lines but is very drivey and ready to go go go with a not so great off switch. He has a great work ethic but gets almost frantic with drive at times and gets over the top. I think that some of it is over arousal mixing with drive that I mistook for pure drive when he was younger. A lot of it though may be due to mistakes I made while raising him. We’re working on learning to be calm and controlled while in high drive working mode. He’s the first dog I’ve raised and trained and there’s a lot of things I would do differently if I could go back. I’ve learned that it’s a lot harder to fix some things than to train it right to begin with. 

Anyways, I’m sorry I derailed your thread so much. I tend to babble way too much when on the topic of dogs.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

No worries at all! 

I think BCs and the bite/protection work shepherds are drastically different. What breeders/lines you search out will make all the difference for sure. There are tons of similarities, but in terms of breeds as a whole I can say with high confidence (much more than what I say about Dutch vs GSD) that BCs are just sooooooo much more sensitive and softer. They're nippy as opposed to bitey. I never knew there was a difference until Brae, but there is. I hope you have fun deciding which dog is the better match for you!

And you know what... It may be more dependent on "what you WANT to handle" and not so much "training skills at the time." A lot of people told me I took a dive going from a moderate/high drive, moderate energy shelter mutt to a purebred Dutch shepherd. And honestly, Soro was harder. Soro is still harder and requires much more consideration in terms of lifestyle and where I take him. If you get a breeder who is good at making matches, and a dog with good genetics, the challenges will be normal puppy-raising challenges. Not... horror-story, dog eating through drywall, wailing for 8 hours... type challenges. Soro's harder because he has behavior issues. If you know training basics and you have a good grasp of how to manage and create setups (for your sanity as much as anything else), and most of all if you have realistic expectations, you can handle any stable and healthy dog. But behavior issues are what really makes dogs hard. I don't necessarily think it's their drive or energy. On the FB page, again, there is a lady who has had multiple Dutchies. She said the hardest one was her first one, rescued, behavior challenges. Every other Dutch shepherd she has gotten from good breeders has been "easy."


----------



## emmybear (Sep 7, 2015)

You’ve posed some really great points and definitely ones I’ll have to think about. I’ve done so much research into the other parts of the breed, temperament and the issues that are big in it that I never really considered hard vs soft temperament. It’s not something I’ve ever really had to deal with because Renegade is the only dog I’ve actually trained and interacted closely with in a training sense before. He’s definitely not soft and I’m not sure I’d match well with a dog that’s super soft. He’s the type that I can have him to try to do something repeatedly if he’s not getting it right and it doesn’t bother him. If anything, he tries harder because he knows he’s not gotten the toy or food yet and really wants to figure out what to do to get it. I’m not sure I would mesh well with a very soft dog who needs to be constantly cheerleaded and told that they are right. 

Definitely something for me to consider when deciding what breed. I’ve wanted a border collie for a while and it may be clouding me to aspects that may not make the breed right for me currently. Not sure. I’ll probably just have to find a great breeder and communicate honestly what I’m looking for and what I’m used to. Then they can tell me honestly whether their dogs or even the breed in general is right for me or not. 

I may be better off with another bitey dog. Renegade was mostly normal and easy as a young puppy but there are still a few pairs of jeans with holes in them from where he latched on and refused to let go until I physically removed him. It took me a time or two to realize if I moved, he would just let me drag him. I got a lot of bruises from him when we were working on bite inhibition and still do get one or two occasionally. 

You’re the first “dog person” I’ve actually discussed breeds with and choosing and it’s been enlightening. Thank you for pointing out aspects of picking a breed that I hadn’t thought of.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

It's my pleasure! I can go all day. Christie and Asheley are both great resources. They're communicative, honest, and genuinely interested in helping people reach good decisions. Christie was the first person to tell me, "They (Dutchies) are still just dogs."

I work in a shelter, in a part of the country where herding dogs are the majority. I have seen some incredibly driven dogs matched with FIRST TIME owners. Dogs who can clear 6 foot, slick kennel walls with no issues, multiple-return dogs, and dogs who inspire some pretty 'creative' protocols  (ex. 'you NEED to tuck your ponytail away and approach this dog with a long, sturdy tug toy'). Matched with first time owners who also happen to be college students, apartment dwellers... And nine times out of ten, it's a good match. But the bottom line is, expectations are important! And whatever I wrote in the previous post. My shelter sets people up with training if they want it. But it's an after the fact thing, so it's very much about that match.

Do communicate with breeders! Also, maybe consider other breeds who can give you the best of both worlds? Looking in between BCs and Dutchies, I think a lot of Aussies (and some look just like BCs) have great drives and work ethic but are less soft and less prone to being 'neurotic'. Cattle dogs are seriously awesome and tough dogs. But BCs, Aussies, and ACDs are all popular enough that there are breeders out there breeding for the whole spectrum of personalities and driviness. (as opposed to Dutchies being rare and still generally bred for the same thing). 

Like I said, I can go all day. But have fun doing your research!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I am going to jump in here because of mention of BCs and just say that yes, there are lots of them being bred for lots of reasons but serious softness is pretty much a universal trait across lines. The level of fear and reactivity can vary, but being 'tough' is pretty much ONLY found in working cattle lines and it's inconsistent there. 

I do think it's interesting that of the forum dogs I think Kiran has the most in common with Brae - as far as both drive and temperament (he's a BC/ACD working bred dog). Make of that what you well, Emmybear. Personally, I 'blame' the ACD influence.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Such similarities... What are the chances that we both get puppies around the same time and they are like brothers from different mothers  I would definitely 'blame' the ACD influence too! And in fact, the more I think about it, the more I think BC/ACD is a great balance of two breeds intense in very different ways.

Here are some photos from a couple hours ago:





































And here's a video of Brae stacking rings on a peg. I didn't think I'd get around to teaching him this so soon, but he got it!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae will be 10 months in a couple of days and weighed in at 66# on the dot a few days ago. Things continue to go great!

Big developments this month in our household. More and more, I am allowing him to be loose in the house when we are home. Soro does not seem bothered by it anymore either. I am also increasingly leaving the crate door open and letting him have crate+pen (rather than strict crating) when he is alone and overnight. There is no hard/fast rule for any of this. Sometimes he still gets crated, some days he still spends a lot of down time in his pen. But more and more, he is becoming a really great house dog. When he isn't, it's not as if he's tearing through the house, jumping on furniture, whining, or being destructive. At times he is just a tad busier with pacing or getting up and lying down repeatedly. If it bothers me, back in the pen he goes. 

So overall, the story is still the same. He's an amazing dog. I am cruising with him right now. He walks great on leash, minds great off leash, cuddly, is appropriately social to everything he's ever met, driven but not neurotic. I can sleep in and he's fine. I can go all day and he's right there. 

Due to the lack of daylight, we are at about 1.5-2 hours of exercise+training a day. Hiking season is over and at first I was worried about cutting out our 3+ miles of regular off leash time. But when we do hike, I am reminded that he can take or leave the hiking. Throughout a hike, he is always looking for something more interactive to do like carrying a stick or ripping at a plant. These days we've been doing a lot of fetch, find it, and general training/off leash time in school yards and local parks. I think he enjoys those even more than he does a hike because he has my undivided, working attention for an hour (versus more passive attention on a hike).

I still am tickled by all his 'first' moments. I wasn't home when my partner told me Brae found his tail for the first time and was chasing it for a few minutes. It's funny that he didn't do that earlier in his puppyhood and I've never seen him do it since! A few days ago we moved around some furniture and he saw himself in the mirror for the first time. I wish I had filmed it! He had such funny posturing as he approached this 'other dog' with his neck stuck fully to the side, and he tried to go around the mirror for a polite sniff rather than meeting nose to nose. Ultimately, as all dogs do, he discovered his reflection was irrelevant. 

A few months ago and earlier in the year, I had a lot I NEEDED to do with him in the way of socialization, handling, exposure, and settling. Now, we are just having fun with our hikes, our trick training, and whatever else we want to dabble in. I still keep things variable. The other day we did nosework and a walk in the morning, and a walk in the evening with some trick training, and pulling a tire around the block. I still carry his meals around every time we go anywhere. I am mindful that mentally he is still a puppy in some ways and I keep telling myself that now is not the time to fade treats. Then again, we are working on so many tricks that I need the calories to spend anyways! Still, he has always struck me as exceedingly mature, even when he was just a baby. I don't know if it was him or my expectations and rigid structure. Maybe both.

Lastly, 2 weeks without diarrhea or antibiotics! He is now on an enzyme+probiotic powder. I have no idea if that's what is helping his system but given how long he's been on and off with meds, I think a nice long spell of probiotics is never a bad idea! 

I'll add photos later. For some reason they are not uploading at the moment.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Here's the goober chewing on an antler. He is chewing appropriately, gnawing instead of trying to crack it. But still, he reduced that 10-12" antler to around 4" within a week.


















Look at how close these two are lying! This is not staged at all and totally by choice. Soro will still bark and snarl if Brae gets too cuddly, and I would say Soro has "accepted" Brae and doesn't love him. IE, if Brae disappeared tomorrow Soro would still be Soro, maybe even happier  But I am continuously blown away by how their relationship has developed. We had a playdate with a friend and two of her dogs yesterday, one of which Brae grew up with. And Brae still played with Soro the most!


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

I love Brae's face in those antler chewing pictures. He's turning into a dog but you can see he's still such a puppy. Soro looks so put out in that last pic that it actually made me laugh out loud.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

He is totally still a puppy! All wiggles. Soro looks that way in the last photo because there are treats on the ground they are waiting for, and he is keen on getting them


----------



## troglodytezzz (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi Canyx! I haven't been on the forum for a while. Congrats on the new puppy, he's beautiful! You have done amazing work with him already. Soro really doesn't look too impressed though....


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Heyyyy! Good to see you hear! You should post some updates about Eppy!! 

Brae keeps me on my toes for sure but he's a perfect fit for me!


----------



## gingerman (Dec 27, 2013)

Ginger is 5 1/2 now and is as precious as ever...I just can't believe what a sweet and smart girl she is....she's mellowed out for the most part, but she will always have fits of extreme overzealousness...as far as some dutchies being stockier, she most certainly is muscular, her strength is just astounding, she's now a very lean 86lbs, she has played with female DS of the same age..their personalities and movements seemed very similar, but its like ginger was the other dog on a few rounds of steroids...passers by asked f Ginger was an older brother of the other dog, being about 25 percent heavier even though her frame was within an inch of any demention..


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Did you ever get a DNA test done on her? If not, I still don't think she has any Dutch in her. But she is a good looking dog nonetheless. 

Interesting that you are choosing to post this here rather than on her own thread.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I had a revelation this morning that Brae is, and has for a while been, better trained than Soro ever was. Soro knows more cues and tricks. But in terms of natural focus, offered disengagement from distraction, almost pinpoint precision in obedience, appropriate social behaviors, and just 'being a good dog' in situations... Brae has Soro beat. I remember, with some sadness at not knowing more at the time, being so frustrated with Soro for around the first year or two. Recall, boundaries, distractions, were all such a battle with him. He was GREAT until he wasn't, as everyone says about their dogs. I never thought about returning him, or collapsed on the floor crying or anything. Soro has always been a joy in my life from day one. But there was just so much anger and frustration in my training. I'm not perfectly without anger or frustration today. But I am appreciative of how much Soro has taught me and prepared me for doing better with Brae. 

I've told myself for years that when I get another dog, I will do better. I have so far exceeded my goals with Brae and sooner than what I expected. I just never imagined I could get this level of focus and stamina at less than a year of age. Also, I didn't expect him to settle well outside of his pen until well after a year, maybe two. He isn't totally settled and might never be, but he is pretty easy to live with these days, almost like a 'normal' dog in the house. He's looking for stuff to do, as I'm typing this. But it's all in a pretty low key way. Not how he used to be, which is frantically going from one thing to another, literally just pacing back and forth panting a bit because he just *needed* something to do. I've reached a comfortable point of balancing how much stimulation he needs to be content, and how much I give on a regular basis that is reasonable. I trust that he won't give me a hard time if one day is slower than normal. Though, I should say I virtually never take 'off days' with my dogs. There's maybe been... 2? 3? days since I've had Brae that he's received less than 1.5 hours of training/exercise, at least. 

Basically, he is still a great dog.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I think it's a normal progression. You have 10 significant years of more experience and maturity with training. You "Know" what works, and what Brae is 'thinking'. I think you started with a patient, almost diplomatic, mind set, when Brae was younger, so he quickly learned what words were, what you wanted, moving quickly from " external rewards-based" to internal rewards-based. I believe that Brae had a much better start as a young puppy that Soro. Soro had a lot of baggage to overcome to get where he is. Brae is clearly a thinking dog, not a reacting dog. .... [I think that if Brae went through all the mental changes that Soro did ... then Brae would be a jet fighter pilot now ;-) ]
I believe that you took a lot of effort to teach Soro to stack rings around 6 - 10 years old ? ... And, you taught Brae the same skills on a whim in a few days! In addition, I'm very proud of the diplomacy and people skills that you are developing. Been a growing experience for both.

What are the next steps? I think Sue Garrett has levels of 'clicker training' so that at highest levels, the dog has learned how to learn, and she can teach 'any' dog at that level to do 'any' tasks or behaviors. The dog may not be top of the class in a specific competition, but will understand and be able to compete. Chaser the dog knows how to fast map, learning the names of new objects very rapidly, on contact. Shep and Soro [in different ways] understood 'do what I do', 'do what I mean' ... requiring less training or just demonstrations of concepts.

What's next for Brae ? If only you could teach him to clean house and to iron clothes ;-)


----------



## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Canyx said:


>


I just had to comment on this photo. Poor Soro just looks like he is saying "Fine, the kid can stay, but I am not happy about it" lol. Poor old man.


----------



## gingerman (Dec 27, 2013)

My post was hijacked by trolls from the DSF, this post contains a more interesting and subtle discussion about the nature of the Dutch Shepherd, as apposed to people tediously repeating silly things like "Ginger has a single coat"...If they can't determine Ginger has a thick double coat then how on earth could they know what her genetics are....as well as being childish, rude, and insulting...not a discussion worthy of the Dutch Shepherd..As far as DNA tests go, her results would just be an ill defined shepherd group, not specifically dutch shepherd, as I understand it? have you had a DNA test on Brae? As far as Ginger's looks, I don't think you know what she looks like..her brindle creates such a powerful optical illusion as to the contours of her head and neck as to give a completely different impression looking at a 2 dimensional photo of her than what she looks like in three dimensions, where the disconnect between her shepherd shaped head and the shape her brindle suggests is quite startling, I call it her "sad clown puppy face"...If you were to ever meet Ginger you would immediately recognize her as a dutch Shepherd, as about a couple of dozen dutch shepherd owners have done already...But its not how CUTE she is, its how ACUTE she is that I think is so unusual...she sometimes watches entire basketball games like she is doing here, its the STARE....like she looks at me, for minutes at a time without wavering like she is trying to read my thoughts..


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Wow. I'm very sorry for you.

Though I respectfully ask, to please start your own thread for your complaints and your search for validation, instead of hijacking my thread that I'm using to celebrate my dog.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

It's unbelievable that Brae will be a year old at the end of this month! Life is still just plain awesome with him. I don't know when this exactly happened, maybe a few weeks ago, but he's totally loose in the house when we are home now. I have virtually no issues with settling and I'm seeing a more consistent, steady dog during downtime at home. Outside, the game is on! But isn't that exactly what I wanted, a dog that is endless outside and 'normal' inside? I feel like I am taking things for granted, like there was never a moment in our growth together where I've felt like I _couldn't_ get him to do anything (minus settling early on, which predictably got better but was the biggest thing, though nothing I didn't expect)... whether it's recall from a dead run towards a dog or deer, or a trick, or anything else. My expectations have continuously been exceeded regarding everything, including how soon he'd become the dog he is today. 

Anyways, here are some photos of him and Soro playing! They are virtually the same size, somewhere between 65-68# and 26-28" at the shoulder (I forget). Brae's neck and head are larger, is all.


----------



## Prozax (Aug 26, 2014)

I appreciate and love your updates. I don't really reply since I don't have much valuable input. But THAT LAST PHOTO!! Hilarious, I love the look on Braeburn's face.

Though I must say, I would have expected to see the roles reversed. Kinda how I imagine a new puppy will work with Eli.


----------



## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Photographing dogs at play is so fun, you can get some hilarious photos  Braeburn is quite the handsome fella, and good to see Soro playing with him instead of looking sad!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Prozax said:


> I appreciate and love your updates. I don't really reply since I don't have much valuable input. But THAT LAST PHOTO!! Hilarious, I love the look on Braeburn's face.
> 
> Though I must say, I would have expected to see the roles reversed. Kinda how I imagine a new puppy will work with Eli.


Brae is actually much more tolerant and adapting to other dogs than Sor is. So Soro dominates the play because he is too inappropriate and kind of a jerk in those situations 
Brae is just happy to be playing with him! For example, Soro virtually NEVER self handicaps. He is all about neck/face biting and even holding (and on rare occasions, a shake). Those are not acceptable behaviors in any situation except for the fact that Brae keeps coming back for more. Brae would never grab and hold Soro the same way though! I think the only way this balances out is Soro's age somewhat handicaps him. Brae is more nimble and can squirm/push out of, or bound away from Soro's assault and then tease him for more. But from a behavior perspective... It's not balanced play and I am always there to supervise. Like if Soro holds Brae's neck for too long I need to say his name to interrupt him. Brae is not offended and goes back for more. But.... that dog Soro is something... 



Daenerys said:


> Photographing dogs at play is so fun, you can get some hilarious photos  Braeburn is quite the handsome fella, and good to see Soro playing with him instead of looking sad!


Thanks! Kind of related to the above... Soro is so inappropriate that it is actually quite easy for me to get a photo of Brae being chewed on!


----------



## gingerman (Dec 27, 2013)

Canyx said:


> Wow. I'm very sorry for you.
> 
> Though I respectfully ask, to please start your own thread for your complaints and your search for validation, instead of hijacking my thread that I'm using to celebrate my dog.[/QUOT
> 
> ...


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

gingerman said:


> My post was hijacked by trolls from the DSF, this post contains a more interesting and subtle discussion about the nature of the Dutch Shepherd, as apposed to people tediously repeating silly things like "Ginger has a single coat"...If they can't determine Ginger has a thick double coat then how on earth could they know what her genetics are....as well as being childish, rude, and insulting...not a discussion worthy of the Dutch Shepherd..As far as DNA tests go, her results would just be an ill defined shepherd group, not specifically dutch shepherd, as I understand it? have you had a DNA test on Brae? As far as Ginger's looks, I don't think you know what she looks like..her brindle creates such a powerful optical illusion as to the contours of her head and neck as to give a completely different impression looking at a 2 dimensional photo of her than what she looks like in three dimensions, where the disconnect between her shepherd shaped head and the shape her brindle suggests is quite startling, I call it her "sad clown puppy face"...If you were to ever meet Ginger you would immediately recognize her as a dutch Shepherd, as about a couple of dozen dutch shepherd owners have done already...But its not how CUTE she is, its how ACUTE she is that I think is so unusual...she sometimes watches entire basketball games like she is doing here, its the STARE....like she looks at me, for minutes at a time without wavering like she is trying to read my thoughts..



It is against forum rules to hijack other members posts. If you wish to talk about your dog, start your own thread. Not liking the responses you get is not a valid reason to hijack someone else’s thread. This will be your only warning.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I haven't been diligent about taking photos lately so when I do take my camera I take a ton. We went on a little hike today where both dogs played fetch, wrestled, and posed in a disgruntled way. Mostly Brae, but I'm throwing some Soro in here because Soro is awesome.


Brae will be a year old in exactly one week! Crazy how time flies...


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Sor will be 12 in April. I am so lucky to have these two


----------



## Daenerys (Jul 30, 2011)

Soro may be white in the muzzle, but it looks like he isn't quite ready to be an old man yet. Looks like he can keep up with Braeburn


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Daenerys said:


> Soro may be white in the muzzle, but it looks like he isn't quite ready to be an old man yet. Looks like he can keep up with Braeburn


Soro can, in a way! He doesn't have the overall stamina. But when he plays, he's full bore! And he still keeps up on all our hikes. But I do need to watch out and 'force' some rest days for him.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

It is hard to believe that Brae will be 1 year old on Monday!

I made a compilation video of (many of the) things we've been working on. This one is mostly tricks/indoor behaviors. I aim to make an outdoor one soon.
This is the 7th major/compilation video I've made tracking his progress. It's really cool for me to look at the different clips and see how much he has improved.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

One year old today! I am thrilled with this dog. Thrilled. I never imagined raising a puppy could be this easy and rewarding. This entire process, from first contact I had with my breeder to this day, has redefined my standards for what a good breeder looks like and what I can accomplish in the first year. 

Here's a pretty slow video of Brae in the real world. It's slow, but it's all the important things.


----------



## Moonstream (Apr 3, 2016)

I have to say, I am absolutely _loving_ watching him grow up! I got a pup about a month before you got Brae, and watching your commitment and work with him via this thread has really been an inspiration and motivating factor in working with my own dogs at a time when various life influences have conflicted with steadfast training. It's also really awesome to see someone with a "oh that dog can't learn w/o being punished for the wrong choices" kind of breed (based on your comment in the e-collar thread I think you know what I mean) produce a stable, reliable, _well trained and educated_ young dog without heavy handedness. My pup is a field bred lab, and I've run into similar "train them with aversives/punishment/prongs/e-collars" attitudes within the circle of friends/associates I have in that breed/type.

I hope you don't see it as derailing at all, but I'm curious what your approach was to leash walking with him? I see you stopping often- is it to encourage re-engagement and re-positioning? Feel free to tell me off if you don't think this fits into the content of the thread!

Absolutely *love* seeing the real life video. He is seriously such a handsome dude, and his personality sounds just stellar!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks for your words Moonstream! 

I understand the attitude you're talking about I see it a lot in my personal and professional worlds. Unfortunately, when I spent over 2 hours outside training and filming today, in every situation I encountered owners who were frustrated and had no control over their dogs. Dog culture for ya....

I am happy to explain what we're doing on leash! When I stopped, it was definitely to give him a chance to refocus on me. With the rough collie, Brae was being very good but you could tell he was still very interested, especially as the dog was making eye contact and pulling towards him. I did not give him any cues and I was happy to let him observe and figure out the situation on his own, though I could have said his name to get his attention. Had I not stopped, there probably would have been a point where he would have gotten distracted enough by the other dog to hit the end of his leash. That wouldn't have been a big deal, but it wouldn't be as flawless. I could have used cues to keep him by me. Or, I could have let him fail and correct him (which isn't how I work around distractions or teach LLW). I use cues in more surprising or pressing situations. When the off leash dog came up to him, you can't hear it but I did say "wait" as the dog approached and I did hold on to the 'collar' as an extra measure, before I released him and as the owner was getting her dog. You can see that Brae is totally loose and happy throughout. But in general, in real life situations I try to use as few cues as possible and let him figure things out on his own. Stopping allows him to have the space and time to make decisions. 

In general, I don't care about position for LLW, but he does strictly need to be on my right side and keep the leash slack. He is very good at LLW in general but I still stop to 'remind' him a handful of times per walk, especially towards the beginning of a walk. Though in this video we stop a lot because there was a lot of traffic, and I was circling around and fishing for distractions for the film! In a 'real' walk I look like a normal dog owner walking down the street 

Clearly, he is not totally un-distractible with dogs. But that's okay by me because he's only a year old, he's social, he is calm in environments with dogs even in close proximity, and he is easily controlled or asked to disengage when needed. I do expect improvements in this area as we continue to train.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I am thrilled to say that Brae has been attending a 4 week Nosework class (we are on week 4 this upcoming week), and is starting an Agility class... Tomorrow! I will continue with Nosework if the rest of my class wants to. 

There is ONE training facility within a hundred+ mile radius of me that uses methods I am comfortable with. And it is so nice for me to finally have classes that fit with my off-the-norm schedule. The trainer has trained with Fenzi, is a CPDT, and actively competes.

So much fun


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Kiran and Brae continue to be living alternate lives. I've been really about exposing him to as many sports/activities on at least foundation levels as I can and the only thing I've run into that he 'doesn't do' or seem to get is lure coursing. 

The irony there is it's a good example of one of the few places they're very different: Kiran's SO handler focused that he's unwilling to go far enough away to really chase the thing  I expect that to improve with training and age. He has more than enough prey and play drive for it, but there's only so far from me he's chasing anything. Dork. 

But seriously this 'all the things!!!' thing really seems to be helping him stay, overall, super well rounded. OTOH, I hate flyball the second it turns into flyball so that's going to be a short lived dalliance.

But basically: Good boys are good and Brae looks fantastic. And YAY AGILITY CLASSES.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks! I really enjoy looking at Kiran's updates too. I am always so tickled by how similar they are.

Brae did an amazing job in agility class last night. It was a bigger class, much rowdier, but he did great. There was a little bit of whining since it's a new group of dogs, but far less compared to day one in nosework (which still wasn't bad at all). And his performance throughout class was stellar. I don't have a single complaint. I'm going to brag a bit about how he's the best (in terms of performing the tasks, and I guess general handler focus) in both his classes. But I cheated a bit, since I started him in both sports months ago.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, it's going to be a bit before Kiran's introduced to anything new. We'll see how it goes then, but I suspect I know where the trouble spots will be - and it's basically 'he's going to try to bail the contacts'. I haven't done anything there yet and am not overly concerned. He'll work through it with me once he figures out what I want, and learn from there that they're secure.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Is he scared of contacts?? If so, I'm sure he'll get over them quick!

The biggest issues I've dealt with (which are really tiny) are linked to arousal and drive. Like, in the middle of a break while I was sitting listening to the instructor Brae launched towards the odor thinking he had enough of lying around and wanted to earn some reinforcement. That effectively planted me on the ground and the instructor used it as a moment to talk about why the handler always wants to give a cue to start searching  
And, everyone else is told to physically move their dog away from the odor when done to make it clear to the dog to stop indicating, but I can't do that with Brae because he'll go from calmly indicating, to attacking the source, if I physically try to move him. He's not resource guarding. He just gets really amped. So... I use a verbal release cue when done.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

He isn't scared of contacts, but he has a long history of 'climb the thing, leap off' going on. I could have been working around it before now but haven't because it's just not a big deal and I don't think it'll be hard to fix, since they're taught via backchaining from the contact behavior. 

But that'll be the point he stops being the puppy star


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Oh, not a big deal at all 
Just Kiran being happy Kiran!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

We'll see how much I love him in ten days...

Yesterday, 3 miles up a climbing trail, Brae sliced his carpal pad on something. He nearly tore it off and it was dangling off him as we hiked back. He definitely is lacking some nerve cells or pain receptors... I had no idea he was injured at all until I saw big splotches of blood in the snow. I had to leash him for the 3 miles back (which was more horrible for him than ripping his pad) since he still wanted to snap at grass, fetch sticks, and tear through the woods. He probably would be pad-less if he had his way down.

$300 later and the vet did some internal tissue sutures, and some metal sutures for the outside. 10 days of limited activity. I am _*lucky*_ it was the carpal pad and not one that makes full contact with the ground at all times. But it does mean no running, fetch, or high impact activities for 10 days. I can't even give him food toys since he is pawsy with them and I am supposed to prevent as much flexing of the paw/wrist as possible. Like I said, we'll see how much I love him in a few days with limited activity 

Otherwise, he is being very adaptable. I did not do any e-collar (elizabethan collar/cone of shame) with him as a puppy. For the first night yesterday he was not a fan. He didn't fight it but was just being clumsy or a little reluctant to move at times. He was also recovering from sedation so it could have been that too. But now he is eating, figured out drinking on his own, chewing toys despite it, and is acting his normal self with the collar on. Despite his dislike of it (what dog LIKES the cone?), he always sticks his head forward willingly into it, as he would any collar or harness. He also very patiently let me check the site and re-wrap his paw. Not a twitch or a whimper.

It was bound to happen. We are pretty active and I do expect scratches and minor injuries with my dogs. Soro's been very healthy for the last decade plus but I remember when he had his paw pad glued together, when he punctured his ankle in the river, rolled and limped for a day going after a disc.... I hope beyond hope that with some level of caution on my part, and with conditioning, that my dogs will not suffer serious injuries like fractures or ACL tears or worse. But like any dog owner, I do my best and do not treat them like they're made of glass.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Ow! Yeah, keeping a pad wound clean and dry is not fun. Sorry to hear that.

Maybe it's time for some 'geeky' training rather than athletic tricks to 'tire' Brae out while he's mending... 

Can he bark on cue? Is it OK if he learns to count?
I know you did some ring stacking ... Is that quiet enough?

More scent training?


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

@hanksimon, Yes, he does bark on cue. I did a LOT of nosework this week!

In recent developments... I came home this evening to find that he had chewed his cone open, while wearing it of course. However, what I am most proud of him for are 1. He did not chew his bandage off, and 2. He did not eat the plastic tab that he chewed off the cone. I am VERY PROUD and relieved that a blockage surgery is not on my to-do list. It remains to be seen how he managed to chew the base of the cone (as seen in the photo) while it was on him. I have never seen him chew the cone in person. I guess he was bored while I was at work...

The only good thing about any of this is how cute his ears are.




























Otherwise, I am very impressed and grateful for how well he is handling this whole 'rest' thing. Granted, I have been walking him on a 15' line about 2 hours a day, with some light training and nosework thrown in. However, I know and I see that just-walking is barely enough. He is definitely more on edge, more wired when anything happens. I would absolutely go for the trazadone if he ever has a serious injury that requires more stringent down time (which I hope never happens!). 

I expected him to be a nightmare at agility class today. We weren't doing jumps, just short bursts of fast movement in a lot of foundational stuff. So I decided to let him fully participate (with some tug thrown in for good measure; he hasn't played tug in almost a week). I checked his stitches after class and there was no ill effect. He was STELLAR in class. Very focused, very precise, and not at all hard to handle.

Very proud of my boy.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I love those ears and especially that expression! I imagine the worst of it is over for him, pain is decreasing, and if you replaced the cone (?) that he'll miss it when it's gone ... Yeah, Right ;-) 

I didn't suggest the obvious - a few extra Kong or Buster Cube toys, b/c I imagine that he uses his paws to help manipulate them? But, how about a Thunder shirt, Wrap, or just a long hug [might help you, too ;-) ] not to reduce 'anxiety', but to act like swaddling on a baby to drain some of the excess energy for a short time?

I was under the impression that you couldn't walk him, but a good one hour ... [TWO hours???] walk may not be adequate exercise, but an especially well-travelled or new path should offer hm great undirected nose work, which can be as good as reading a good book. If he is medically allowed to walk in an Home Depot, not getting excited with smells and people, that might provide a rich scent environment to help work the nose and mind?

Question: Long ago, when Shep had pad surgery, I personally had problems keeping the bandage clean and dry for the first few days, because I discovered that he needed to be changed a little more often than once a day, due to sweating. Have you had any irregularities with Brae's dressing?


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I unfortunately cannot do food toys (I did try) because he is too pawsy with them. Aggressively so, like he is using his paws more forcefully than if he was simply walking. 

I have not had any problems with his dressing. He calmly lets me do the entire process, which takes a minute or so since I apply the bandage, gauze, and vet wrap, and need to tape each piece in place. It has been wet or snowy outside, so he wears a booty on that foot when he goes out. I think that has been the saving grace that has prevented me from going through tons of dressing. He also LOVES his cone. He can't wait to put his head in when I pick it up. I think he's chewing it out of boredom and the fact that it's the closest thing to his mouth, not really to get it off.

Pain... I don't think he ever felt any pain from this. Not when he sliced it, not on the hike out, not at the vets, and certainly has never shown any indication in these last few days


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

First FIGHT today! No damage. This was with a group of 8 dogs, friends of mine, known-to-be-social dogs. Some musings about dog interactions...

It's been interesting watching Brae grow up. He's always been pushy but overall appropriate in the grand scheme of things. His first move with some dogs is to posture (head over shoulder, paw over shoulder), and hump. But will disengage with a mild and appropriate correction (growl, air snap, bare teeth) from the other dog, or if I tell him to stop. He has always been happy to move on and is not fixated on dogs. 

This incident was with an untrained and over-aroused neutered male that was targeting him with pushy behavior. I actually think some moments between them were play. But the other dog was a little insecure with Brae in general, escalate, and it tipped over into a fight. Another intact male (not my dog) in the group is more submissive and was also targeted by the neutered boy, but moved away from the situation rather than escalate. Brae certainly was not looking to fight, but he would posture right back. Thankfully, Brae is trained to the point that I can verbally diffuse situations (had to grab the neutered dog - who wouldn't stop or listen, then stop Brae with a HEY!). This was in a group of 8 dogs, and the other dogs (male and female, intact and altered) he played well with, shared toys and tugged, etc.

It was really interesting... He was pushy and hump-y with two males that he got along with (one altered one not) both a few months younger than him, a submissive female a little older. And he was VERY deferential to the confident senior female, smallest dog in the group, who actually tried to play with him in a way that he likes (mouthy wrestling). But Brae only responded with appropriate pops, repeatedly spun so his back was to her, and repeatedly redirected onto a toy or a different dog. He grew up knowing this female and has played with her in the past, too.

I anticipate that upon maturity he will be a dog that is friendly with some, neutral with others, and not one to back down. I currently see him exercising dominance on dogs who are younger or more submissive. If I could manipulate temperament, I would make him more mild-mannered in that regard, only because I was hoping he would be a dog I could use for rehabilitating other dogs... But that doesn't seem to be the case, and I am still thrilled with him regardless! (And, in some ways, it is suiting for me to have a dog that doesn't back down, versus a dog that is too submissive).

I think back to Soro's younger years and I am so glad I did not 'socialize' Brae in a dog park. He could very well have ended up just like Soro. But as it stands, I am not worried at all.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I really don't have the first idea how to even begin to describe Kiran with other dogs, and I did try. Let's just say their similarities and differences continue to both amuse and bemuse me a bit. 

And that Brae sounds like a really, really, awesome dog.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I never really got a sense of Kiran around other dogs! Except, thinking he was so focused on you he didn't really care!

And yes, I love my brindle beast! But I sense he definitely is not a dog I can just 'let be' in a group of dogs. Unlike... the golden retriever/X who was also in the group. Big, loveable derp that was very agreeable with whatever other dogs threw at him. But, it's alright by me. I never sought a dog for that temperament, and I was fully aware that with general intensity comes the inability to 'just chill' with dogs at times.

And hey, I was (and still am) interested in pitbulls first 

Oh, and I have Soro. Whose ineptness with dog social behaviors will always outshine Brae's no matter what!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Canyx said:


> I never really got a sense of Kiran around other dogs! Except, thinking he was so focused on you he didn't really care!!


So focused on me he doesn't really care *is* sometimes it- last weekend he walked past a friend's dog air snapping at him for a good 6 feet without seeming to notice she existed. That only really applies when we're actively doing something or might be doing something, though.

He's appropriate, he's a social butterfly who can and does ignore other dogs in favor of me when work or play is on offer (see above), adjusts his play style well, offers appeasement gestures when he offends another dog. He's actually pretty good at diffusing and can coax most dogs to play with him. He's just... sweet.

He even handles rude dogs really well. He tries to diffuse, he tries to change games, he tries to get himself out. His warnings are clear, appropriate, and escalate slowly. It also takes some SERIOUS bad behavior to get him there - and I mean SERIOUSLY bad. 

HOWEVER, when he says no, and he has gotten to the point of an airsnap, that airsnap had danged well better be listened to because that is the last warning that you're getting before sweet, sunny, derp turns into the embodiment of fury. I mean hair on end, acting like some kind of particularly angry badger, DONE up to HERE and HE IS GOING TO END YOU AND your family and probably burn your village to the ground and salt the earth.

...Thud has learned some manners with him though!  Thud is also the only dog stupid enough to push that far. And I'm usually more attentive when not home because it's not that hard to prevent.

And, you know, once Thud showed appropriate appeasement he was right back to sunny happy derp.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

That's so interesting! Brae doesn't go from calm to badger  There is a very clear and predictable escalation if it does happen. However, I think Kiran at the moment is definitely more sweet than Brae with dogs. Brae's still sweet with people, but kind of a jock around other dogs! I mean, overall he's wonderful. He adjusts play styles, takes cues, shares toys, etc. But I noticed with this dog today the areas where he could have deescalated, he definitely pushed the dog further. 

I do find it interesting, in terms of general body language and dog interactions... The other dog had to be on leash for the rest of the hike. He was very fixated on Brae for a few minutes, like whining and lunging with eyes glued to him. Brae did not go back in for a fight, though I am SURE if that dog continued to be loose another fight would have ensued. But Brae did have moments where he would kind of arch in close to the dog on leash (staring, ears forward, tail high) and I would call him away. It was easy to call him away, and after a couple minutes that dog could have not existed to Brae. Yet, Brae could have also chosen to NOT get closer to the dog too, you know? I don't know if the other dog 'wanted to keep fighting' because what I know about dog behavior suggests that is not usually the case. But I sensed that the other dog wanted to engage with mine again. And I sensed that Brae, though less motivated, was keen on engaging with that dog again. 

It kind of makes sense because ENGAGE, with anything, is Brae's MO in life. Be it a person, a dog, or a heavy sapling that he just MUST carry. In the face of pressure he will escalate and go harder. So, I don't know what to make of this in the context of his interaction with this dog. As in, if it was innocent enough that he just wanted to play and was a little to pushy about it, or if he wanted to continue posturing and pushing the other dog even knowing that it would result in a fight.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Oh, and here's a photo of him I just took. He is really filling in!


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Kiran is actually fairly submissive with other dogs, even, which is another pretty big difference. He humped a lot when he was younger but it was excitement behavior not dominance related at all and I've never seen an iota of other posturing from him.

The point of similarity in all that is pressure. Kiran really, consistently, always, moves in to pressure. Agility is actually a PAIN with him because some of what agility handling is, is stuff like 'pressuring the dog's line' to move them out. Pressure on his line/path just makes him come in harder. I mean that's not it, but it's the example at the top of my head. He moves in toward any kind of pressure, period, which is weird after Molly. 

All that said, he hasn't even hit a year old yet, so who knows.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I redid our spring pole setup since Brae literally snapped the older one (no harm to dogs, and the rope was not designed for heavy loads). Since he's getting older, I've started to let him hang from the toy a little more too. He LOVES it. And typical Brae... In the face of this greater challenge he is even more crazy about the game. He hits the toy harder, and I need to revisit "drop" because his motivation increased just enough that the cue is a fraction less effective. (This is why I spoke loudly and really enunciated whenever I asked him to drop).

Also, he has limber tail at the moment since we were playing in cold rivers. So even though he is all wags in the video, he's actually not wagging as hard as he normally would.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

!!!! Soro was lying on his side and Brae was lying WITH HIS HEAD ON SORO'S HAUNCHES. And SORO WAS OKAY with it!!!! And it only got interrupted because my partner exclaimed "Look at Brae!!" and he got up.

Who are these dogs!?!?


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Wooohooooo!!!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I have not been updating much or taking any pictures. Truth is, I just have so much fun going out and being with this dog that I forget my camera even when I mean to bring it.

Things have largely been the same. I _think_ I'm seeing some signs of adolescence finally. A few weeks ago he broke from me a second before I gave the release cue to say hi to an off leash dog. Admittedly, I did not say 'wait' or cue him, so he didn't really do anything wrong. And he did do a check-in first and was walking by my side before he went up. But I am so used to him waiting for the release that it took me by surprise. I think his motivation for other dogs increased a tad bit too. It could also have been that we've not been seeing many dogs and he was on a heavily populated trail for the first time in a while. ANYWAYS, same old same old.

I've purchased some bite wedges (bigger, harder bite/tug toys) and he LOVES them. It seems any time a game gets harder, he gets more into it. That's something I adore about him.

The best news I got was from talking to my partner tonight. I've been out of town for a few days, longest I've been away from Brae so far. So my partner has been watching the dogs. He finally said he really loves Brae! This is a big deal to me. My partner has always liked Brae, cuddled with him, played with him, enjoyed his company on hikes... But there has always been just a tiny bit of hesitation due to Brae's excessive energy and intensity. I was still asked, recently in a very honest conversation, why I got a dog like him rather than a 'normal' active pet dog. But it seems my absence has allowed my partner to really step into my shoes and see the dog entirely. Some things he said were,"I've really been bonding with him" and "I have a new appreciation for how hard you work with him," and "I've been enjoying him so much - he's so fun." And actually, I was the one trying to not talk dogs and ask about his day, but he kept going on about all the fun things they've been doing together 

I think he finally sees what I see in this dog. I am not surprised that it took my absence to foster this. Brae is such an interactive and engaging dog - he does not disappoint anyone who takes the time to be with him.

I love all my boys (human, Soro, Brae, Sharky) and I can't wait to see them when I get home. Some photos my partner sent me (and the last one was taken last week)


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some photos from today. Soro turned 12 years old a couple weeks ago. I love my boys


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

And just when I thought things couldn't get better...

A couple nights ago, Soro actually INSTIGATED play, INDOORS, while Brae was cuddling with me. I think both dogs were a little feistier than usual that night since they were both being antsy inside. But for Soro to actually stand there with his forward play posture and solicit attention from Brae is just incredible. Unfortunately, I had to interrupt it since it was super late at night and it wasn't the right time/space for such shenanigans.

Really, the only struggle or frustration I have is bowel related. And I'm still not sure what that's all about. It's been about a month without an incident and with awesome stool, and then for the second time ever Brae had an accident in the home... Of course, when it rains it hails so it was watery, explosive diarrhea on the walls. Yikes. Even then, he did not act sick and still wanted to play. 

He had a virtually no exercise day yesterday so today we are getting back to it with some spring pole:


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some spring pole photos from this morning. The toy is about 7 feet up so he's sorta doing some wall climb too...



















Bred for great grips, has great grips. No surprise.



















Good boy


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

He's looking incredible! I love athletic dogs.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thank you!!! I'm sure your dogs are incredible too


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae continues to be everything I've ever wanted and more. He is more appropriate with dogs now and the humpy stage went away in a couple weeks or so. I throw him into things and he does not hesitate. Yet, he has just enough sensibility to be trustworthy on the trail (ie, he won't throw himself over the waterfall). I took him to a chiropractor earlier this month and to my surprise he needed no adjustments at all. Shocking to me, since I've watched him fall from 5 feet in the air flat onto asphalt, among other things.

Today we did a 19 mile hike over 8 hours, no breaks, and he still wanted to play fetch at the end. He was very responsive and level headed through it all, even through tricky terrain. In a month and some change he'll be 1.5 years old. I don't know where the time went, but this is where I really start conditioning him. I've already started doing that with weighted packs, tire pulling, spring pull, etc. But I've carefully spread out the high impact stuff over 2 weeks of time. Most of what we've been doing is play and hiking (usually less than 10mi). So slowly but surely, we're going to be doing more. My goal is for him to carry ~7 lbs over 10+ miles between 2-3 years of age. I have absolutely no doubt he will be there. And of course, I find it crucial to make time for him to be a normal dog sniffing down the trail (which he did all 19 miles today), play with dog friends, and chillax too. 

Here are some random photos from late May and June:





































(from today)









ETA: I did not intend on doing 19 miles today and that's not the norm for what I'd do with a dog his age. I really don't just pack on intense stuff day after day. I thought the trail would be 11 miles. Oops.


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

He's such a beautiful dog. I'm so happy he's such a good dog as well.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

He's looking good whatan athletic dog


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks Spicy and Sandakat! Yes, he is such a jock in build and character.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

My shelter holds a kid's summer camp every year and I usually do some activities with my dogs. Since Sor's getting old, I decided to bring both dogs. Although Brae's been well socialized with children (limited interactions with a few, but seeing them regularly in various environments since day 1), this was his first time in contact with 16 kids all at once. I am so proud of him since he was totally appropriate and sweet, even when they were crowding around him.

My bigger concern would be him knocking a kid over for a toy. I of course did not have him engage in any tug around or with the kids. But we did a clean up game with balls and a box and he was so AMPED for the ball I had to take control of the leash and trade her for Soro since he was rearing up and lunging. He was fine once I had his leash (another case where he clearly behaves differently for different handlers). But I am just thrilled with how wonderful he was with the kids.

More demo work in the future!


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

That's so awesome that you're able to do demo work and that he's good in a crowded environment / around children. I really love following this thread watching how he's grown.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brags:

We were biking on a trail the other night and it was about 10pm, getting really dark. I wasn't really watching the surroundings because I didn't expect anyone out this late, and the area is urban enough that there are no bears or other dangers. Brae was off leash running in front of me and we were along a log fence approaching my car. From 20-30' away, three to four deer sprang out from the woods and ran in front of us to jump the fence and disappear into the neighborhood. I braked my bike and said "whoa!", which is my cue for Brae to slow to a stop. He did without question and we watched as the deer, one by one, darted past us and went their way. Brae could absolutely have chased or jumped/crawled through the fence after them with ease. I did not need to touch him, repeat myself, or use treats. It was actually quite a serene moment.

I have so much confidence in this dog and I have no doubts about his training or our relationship. I am so grateful and proud to have a dog I can bring anywhere and do anything with.


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Excellent! I'm impressed!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I just did a fun little timeline of benchmarks that were important to me. Understandably, progress happens sporadically so it isn't like things magically happened at a certain time frame. But by these certain ages these behaviors were solidified:

2.5 months of age (or 1-2 weeks after getting him), he learned to be quiet in a draped crate and we had our management routine figured out for home, car and work
6 mo, he learned to be calm and quiet while undraped in crates
6.5 mo, he was consistently self entertaining and enjoyed more space in his crate+pen at home, and rode loose in car from that point on
7.5 mo, first time he played with Soro!!!
9-12 mo, comfortably out of confinement and hanging out in the house with Soro, I think it became very common at around 9 mo and it became the absolute norm just before he hit the 1 yr mark
13-14 mo, able to be in contact with Soro (lying while touching, put his head on Sor's flank, etc.) for short periods without any reaction from Soro (IT TOOK OVER A YEAR, I didn't imagine it happening at all...)

Anyways, interesting to no one but me  It's nice to see how I've steered his development in my home situation. I wonder if it would've been different if I had a different puppy, or if I didn't have Sor. For example, I would trust Brae loose in the house right now but I still pen him because of Soro. However, I am 'ahead of schedule' however emotionless that sounds  I didn't expect to have a well mannered, free roaming puppy until 2 years of age for some reason. And he is/has been for a while/a perfect house dog.

The timeline kind of fades away now because things just get easier. Like I remember when he was a teenager I still had to think about how I moved around in the house in case I triggered him and made him overexcited by accident. I don't have to think about him anymore. He's just there. He's predictably calm and... normal!... when I don't engage him. He ready at the drop of a hat, but turns off immediately the moment I walk away. I don't remember when it became this comfortable to truly live and thrive with two dogs in my house. But it happened somewhere along the line.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some pics from today


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I don't know why I even bother taking indoor photos when I can do sunset shots like these...



















This is the flyby and miss face 









This is why I am jealous of everyone with their perfect medium sized dogs. 71# and still 1.5 years of filling out to do. I can't even keep up with him NOW.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Oh my gosh this dog. I'm sitting here using my computer and Brae was working 2 cups of kibble out of his food toy (Kibble Nibble). Suddenly he comes over to me and sits down with his tail wagging. I think 'this is weird' so I look around... The food toy was busted open and about a cup of kibble was sitting open like food in a dish. I went over and fixed the food toy, and then Brae went to continue working on it.

This dog just refused free food so that he could work it out of the toy, AND he chose to sit next to me to indicate there was something 'wrong' with the toy. This is actually the second time its happened and I did not train him to do this.

He is such a funny dog.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

And for the record, Brae almost always gets most of his 4 cups in food toys these days. I thought I would reserve his kibble for training. And I do, if I'm working on a new trick at home, or if I feel motivated to reward good behaviors on walks. But mostly, food toys. He is just so much more toy motivated that I mostly use fetch and tug as rewards when we are outside. I would definitely call him food motivated in general. He especially loves the high value stuff (meat, cheese, etc). But sometimes I give him a tiny biscuit and he will take it to his bed and gum it a few times, then ultimately eat it at a very slow pace. I've never fed him out of a bowl but I can see him being the kind of dog who takes his time or flat out walks away at times if I did that. But because he's SO into interaction, the food toys are awesome for him.

Also, I have Soro, who will swallow an entire large milkbone in one gulp. So there's that.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae was a good good boy today. I was being an idiot hiking along silently around sunset with no bear spray. Along the hike, Brae alerted to something ahead. He easily disengaged and came back to me. I turned the curve slowly with Brae next to me, anticipating an off leash dog or a biker on the popular trail I was on. Lo and behold, it was a black bear foraging and unaware of our presence. My first thought was "Phew, not a grizzly. There are no grizzlies in this area." My second thought was "I better get the heck out of here." Brae was not afraid at all but incredibly appropriate. He alerted me to the bear but easily disengaged. He stayed with me and he stayed silent, without any fuss. I could learn to be smart like my dog.










Cropped image, red outline is the bear's rump









So thank goodness for stability, strong nerves, and training.


----------



## Wet Beards (Jan 25, 2015)

Do you think some of Brae's reaction, "he stayed silent, without any fuss" was due to 
instinct along with the training? He saw the bear and instinctively knew not to mess
with it?
Mine will chase anything but Moose. All three will come back to me, sit, watch intently and 
silently, but will not go after or get near a Moose.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I think it was moooostly training, though I'll never know. I've been rewarding disengages and non-reactive behaviors around any distractions since he got home to me, since I was worried about getting into a breed known to be nervy with high potential for reactivity. For a while when Brae was younger (and still sometimes with dogs) he would disengage (due to training) but still whine a bit as we move past certain things. I feel like the desire to react rather than disengage has always been there. And I do see a potential for him to be vocal. 

I don't think it was instinct since he reacted the same as when he sees a dog or a hiker coming through. He was very loose, open mouthed, offering me a lot of eye contact. I think he was just playing the disengage game with me like always. Soro is the one who shows a different reaction across people, dogs, and wildlife.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Another Brae-brag.

I was doing a demo for eight preteens/young teens in our kid's trainer camp. They trained shelter pups for 4 days. Anyways, these kids were ahead of their game so instead of just showing off a bunch of tricks I created a puzzle for them. I had them work out the steps to teach Brae how to do a handstand. They had to use their critical thinking skills to come up with the steps, then take turns experimenting with the steps, and then adjusting the steps as needed to help Brae succeed. Brae did not know handstands yet, though I've done rear paw targeting with him (and the kids knew that too). But these kids got Brae doing a handstand against a vertical board on a wall within 20 minutes. They were able to identify when he was having a slightly harder time and adjust accordingly. They were able to change their body language or method of luring to get Brae to behave differently. I'm of course super proud of Brae for working so well with the kids. I'm also really proud of the kids for doing a spectacular job.

Brae did tire of kibble AND hotdogs towards the end of 20 minutes. I think it was because the previous 40 minutes I was doing a demo that involved flirtpole, bitework, nosework, and other stuff in the sun. But he still wanted to work for a toy. Just shows how much less food motivated he is, even though in general I would say he is a food motivated dog too.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

What are the chances... We ran into another bear on the same trail! Same thing this time. Brae was at a curve and did a strong alert then returned to me, silent throughout. I peeked around the bend and the bear was lumbering down the trail towards us. We backed away slowly and calmly, but I had my bear spray ready with the safety off. I backed up and the bear came forward, air sniffing, for about 50', then it went into the surrounding foliage. No photo this time. Eyes on the approaching bear and all...

I've spent hundreds of hours training with him on trails and I always train for real life situations. It's good to have a dog I can trust. 

To compare, Soro is exceedingly well trained and I have videos of him turning on a dime off a chase. I have never worried about losing him to an animal, though he does love to chase. In his life he's chased porcupine, rabbits, pronghorn, whitetail, horses, squirrels, and treed a bear cub. I called him off every single one of those (when necessary) immediately and with no issues. But, that first step is everything and Soro's first step is to engage on sight. I have always been wary with Sor in bear country... He'd be the dog to bring a bear to me. Then again, I never really did disengage training with him. It's interesting to look at how I've changed as a trainer. With Sor I trained mostly for the aftereffects. I thought, 'dogs chase but let me train a strong recall so I can call him back'. He likes garbage and let's teach a leave it or drop. With Brae, I trained mostly for prevention. Ignore things on the ground. Automatic disengage.


----------



## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

Canyx said:


> What are the chances... We ran into another bear on the same trail! Same thing this time. Brae was at a curve and did a strong alert then returned to me, silent throughout. I peeked around the bend and the bear was lumbering down the trail towards us. We backed away slowly and calmly, but I had my bear spray ready with the safety off. I backed up and the bear came forward, air sniffing, for about 50', then it went into the surrounding foliage. No photo this time. Eyes on the approaching bear and all...
> 
> I've spent hundreds of hours training with him on trails and I always train for real life situations. It's good to have a dog I can trust.
> 
> To compare, Soro is exceedingly well trained and I have videos of him turning on a dime off a chase. I have never worried about losing him to an animal, though he does love to chase. In his life he's chased porcupine, rabbits, pronghorn, whitetail, horses, squirrels, and treed a bear cub. I called him off every single one of those (when necessary) immediately and with no issues. But, that first step is everything and Soro's first step is to engage on sight. I have always been wary with Sor in bear country... He'd be the dog to bring a bear to me. Then again, I never really did disengage training with him. It's interesting to look at how I've changed as a trainer. With Sor I trained mostly for the aftereffects. I thought, 'dogs chase but let me train a strong recall so I can call him back'. He likes garbage and let's teach a leave it or drop. With Brae, I trained mostly for prevention. Ignore things on the ground. Automatic disengage.


That's interesting. What would you say the difference is between training an "automatic disengage" and, say, counter-conditioning a reactive dog?


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

To me disengage means 'turn attention away from that thing'. Differential reinforcement of other behavior. So it is operant conditioning. I should be more specific, because I actually trained Brae to not just disengage, but engage with me. In yesterday's scenario, it would have been undesirable for him to look at the bear then look away and sniff around. The only desirable response was to look at me for direction OR come back to me. But for everyday distractions like people and dogs, I think 'look away' is fine. General disengage has numerous correct responses because of the DRO.

Counter conditioning on it's own is just classical conditioning. Operant and classical are always happening together so some counter conditioning is happening in disengage training. But for counter conditioning you aren't necessarily looking at any behavior. You are just changing emotion. So dog perceives another dog and immediately gets rewards. 

Personally, I like starting with counter conditioning but very quickly switch to disengage/BAT/looking for a more specific response. It cuts down on the number of treats being used and it starts allowing people to deliberately use the environment as a reward.

ETA: Here's one more thing I'll add... I don't necessarily care what Brae's emotions about a trigger is (though he can't help but feel great because of R+ training). The correct answer will always be to disengage. I mean, I want him to be happy and confident, and he is. But if he sees something like a bear, a trigger I cannot predictably train around, I am not going to go in and try to make him like bears by doing counter conditioning. I would hope that by that point his training to disengage is generalized, and it is. I also have found that for dogs who are actually fearful and reactive, disengage helps a lot with their confidence. Because the truth is there are some dogs who will never like other dogs. I think CC is important for those dogs, but ultimately they need to learn that it's good/okay/possible to disengage and let it go... even if they still don't like that scary thing.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae's so acrobatic, I tried this on a whim and got him to flip on the first try (the vid is not the first try)






I didn't plan on teaching him things like flips and rebounds because he's big. He's about 72 lbs these days but he does not move like one. But throughout his life so far he's been doing crazy stuff like this without much prompting. And he does it with ease. A week ago I was doing an easy hike with him and he was playing with a ~20-30lb dog that was hyper and really engaging Brae. They were chasing side by side and both dogs leapt forward. Brae was going forward, the other dog was doing a body slam/shoulder check into Brae. And I kid you not... The dog bounced off Brae mid-air. 

Super athletic dog. My partner and I both groan when we realize he's only gonna get bigger and stronger.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm really proud of Brae today. It was his first Tricks class as a demo dog. This required him to be in a crate while I directed the class, and demonstrating a few skills throughout the course. I was nervous because although Brae isn't reactive and he is great with dogs, he is pretty whiny if there's something exciting going on without him in it.

Well, he whined a bit. But by and large he was perfect. The class was a bit rowdy (young, happy dogs) and Brae mostly just lied in the crate and watched. I gave him ample amounts of Kongs and rewards for calm. But really, he did it. And each time I took him out to demo, he was on point. For being very dog social, he was totally focused on me and not distracted by the other dogs, even though the classroom is small and there was a dog barking at him while he was demonstrating at a few points. 

I am really, really proud of him. He is more than everything I ever wanted him to be. I did not expect this, and I certainly didn't expect it at 1.5 years of age. Brae's proven himself in every situation I've put him in... on water, on a hike, carrying a pack, running with a bike, facing a bear, around children, in a classroom.... But really, today's situation was one of the final tests. It was one of the last things I really wanted him to be good at, that I was hesitant about. And from this point forward it's just more of everything he's already been doing. I'm excited for the future. I have a really great partner to walk in this world with.

~~
All this can't be said without appreciation and love for Soro, of course. The whole reason why Brae was even in class tonight is I am officially retiring Soro from classroom work. At almost 12.5 yrs, he's just... old. Sor still has great appetite and light in his eyes. But the limp is constant now, and you can tell he gets tired from even simple things. Last year in the kid's camp he couldn't wait to do all the things. This year, he did them and he did well, but he was also happy, maybe even relieved, to lie down and let Brae get his turn. His favorite part was when the kids pet him at the end. Also, over the last few months I've noticed some hesitation about being in the classroom. Maybe it's the tile floors. Maybe things aren't sounding or looking like they used to for him. Either way, he's telling me he's ready for retirement. But Sor was the absolute best in the classroom, back in his day. Alright, maybe he woofed or grumbled at a dog or two that gave him too much eye  But despite all his challenges with dogs, he never had an issue helping me in various classes, and doing a great job at it too. And... being an absolutely stellar good boy on top of it all. 

So I write this with a lot of pride, and also some weight in my heart. I know Soro's still alive and well and all. But this is pretty significant for me. My boy has gotten old. My puppy has grown up. The torch has been passed. And I just think, what a privilege to be part of dogs' lives like this.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae's growing up! Today, he resourced guarded for the first time. It was between him and a dog he grew up with through puppyhood. She went after his ball, he head flipped and barked at her a few times. She still took it, he tried to take it back, she air snapped (or maybe even made contact with his face), I called him off and/or he backed off. 

He's becoming increasingly interested in toy interaction, which is kind of scary because it's not like he was lacking in drive before. I still have no worries about him meeting other dogs. He is still social in that he is very eager to meet ANY dog. And appropriate enough that he calmly moves on if the other dog gives him an appropriate warning, or even body language indicating they are not interested. But I knew from the start Brae was not the kind of dog that could calmly mingle in a group of dogs. Today, and a few weeks ago on a hike with a different dog he knows very well, he played with his dog friend and eventually overwhelmed the other dog. He goes vertical and uses his paws a lot. He knocked over the other dog (only 5# or so lighter than him) a couple times, and he didn't let up even when she was tucking tail and moving away. I had to call him off, and surprisingly I had to repeat myself and use my loud voice. Once I stopped him, he was right as rain and kept walking and sniffing the trail. The other dog immediately recovered and continued on as well. Over the course of an hour, there was the one RG situation and the one moment of play tipping over. Otherwise, he coexisted well with the two other dogs, or went after large sticks, and we played fetch with two balls in the river.

But it just goes to show, he's not a dog I'm going to bring to dog social gatherings or dog parks. I don't think there's a mean bone in his body and when things escalate, it's only because he wants to continue to INTERACT and play. But it's just too much sometimes. I have not yet seen him be overwhelmed by another dog. And I would not be surprise if he fought with another dog in an escalating situation before he toned himself down. None of this is surprising or concerning for me. If he was on leash he would be totally calm. And I have long expected that any dog with intense motivation for play (tug, fetch, etc) or even food has the inclination to be intense overall, or at least not want to share with other dogs.

I love him just the same!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

(Sorry, messed up photo formats here)

Not much to write, just a huge photo dump. This is from the last week or so. Long hikes, trail smart, being good around other dogs and people, all terrain all day... Nothing is an issue for this dog. 

Ball motivated. I didn't even try to develop this drive because I didn't necessarily need a fetch-crazy dog. But he is. When the ball is out around water, in particular, nothing else matters. 








We're in the photo! It's just a pretty big waterfall. Ripe huckleberries all along the edges.









The one caveat to fearlessness... He wanted to go through dangerous rapids to get sticks (read: trees) from the other side. Verbal cues work, but because I was distracted by berries and picture taking, the leash went on.









A few pics from our hike to an alpine lake today.
































































I keep him pretty active. We do SOMETHING stimulating pretty much every day. Sometimes it's more brain work like nosework. Sometimes it's distance heavy like a long hike. Sometimes it's intense, like weight pull or spring pole. But it's no surprise that he sleeps well every night and has no trouble settling in the house these days.


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

Gorgeous pictures and even more gorgeous dog! I wish we had views like that around here! Looks like such a blast.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks sydneynicole! I definitely moved away from everything I ever knew to find places like this


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

You've inspired me to try out a few new summits in my area with my doggo this weekend  The views won't be anything like this, but it should be fun. Thanks for the inspiration!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Hooray! Take plenty of photos and be safe


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Another first today. 

This morning before anyone was awake I heard growling and low woofs. I was half awake but quickly realized it was Brae. My house is really small but Brae sleeps in the living room and our bedroom door is generally open, with Soro in the bedroom. So it was surely Brae. My partner got up to investigate, since neither of us had ever heard Brae growl before. I think it was just a stranger pausing and listening to a podcast or something in front of the house. 

Still, I'm pretty glad about this development since historically Brae has been non reactive to any sounds outside. Though he does bark at first when a guest first comes in and he is in his crate. But he is still non reactive to all the other sounds that happen in our neighborhood, and I would be fine with a dog warning me about someone lingering in front of the house.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Great photos. He's really looking gorgeous!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks Spicy!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I did it again.

We haven't biked in a while and I thought today would be a lovely day to go out. The trail I picked is heavily used and well marked, out and back, and it steadily climbs into some real wilderness areas. I've been there countless times (where I saw the bears this summer), just usually in a less biked portion. My goal was to push uphill for 4 miles and then cruise back downhill to make it a nice, round, 8 mile trip. The weather was gorgeous and I pedaled along. On and on we went, until I got the itching feeling that I missed my marker and that we'd been going quite a while. I stopped to check Brae's paws, which were fine. And I decided that since we were both in great spirits, we'd press forward. Ultimately, we reached a large stone bridge overlooking a wild river. Good place to stop, I thought, and I turned back. On the way back I asked a biker about the bridge and how far from the trailhead it was. Lo and behold... We had gone 8 miles out! So by the time we got back to the car, the trip was twice as long as I'd intended and Brae had done 16 miles at a trot and gallop.

Got home, he immediately started chewing on a bone. He fell asleep with it in his mouth. But he's still awake enough to look up and wag his tail at me as I type this 

So, I need to get better about my navigation in general. But it's nice to have a dog I trust. Brae never slowed down and I know that he will never give up. I don't need to look over my shoulder to know that he's right there.


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

Good job, Brae! And you! That's a big day! Sounds like a lot of fun.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thank you! How did your outdoor adventures go?!


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

They went well, thanks for asking! In the past two weekends we've explored two new (to us) state parks, and climbed two mountains that we haven't been to before. Although 3 out of the 4 locations we probably won't be back to for various reasons, 1 of them will definitely be staying in the circuit! I have my sights set on Acadia National Park and I hope to get there sometime this fall.

Your adventures with Brae continue to inspire me  My dog can do 5-6 miles comfortably now, but I'd love to get some longer and tougher hikes in as we build up some endurance now that it has cooled down.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Love it! I'm sure your dogs are thrilled with these endeavors :d


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Fall looks good on him


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

It's hard to believe Brae will be 2 at the end of January! He is still just the best. Some minor updates...

-He's fully transitioned into Soro's old 'job' of being my demo dog. He'll be totally calm and settled in a crate, with five other dogs working in sight, and be steady yet eager when I take him out for his turn. He also has no issues being loose in my office, which is adjacent to the training room, even if there is a class full of puppies or barking dogs or people popping in and out all the time. He's just so steady and stable.

-He's getting a little more nervy as he matures too. I still wouldn't peg him as a hair-trigger kind of dog like a lot of Mals and other herding dogs I've seen. But he jumps at things he didn't jump at before. It's not a severe fear response and the recovery is instantaneous. But I always remember that he is a shepherd and I do expect him to see the world differently (ex. people walking in the dark) as he continues to mature. It's very slight, like my partner probably wouldn't notice this difference. But I see these minor differences.

-He's pushing boundaries. Sort of because I've let him a little. For example, I thought it was endearing when he went behind me and stole his toy while I was listening to the instructor in our Freestyle class. But because I let him do that, he's starting to sucker punch me in the gut and grab toys from under my arm before I give him a release cue. Maybe not so cute? 

-He's still social with dogs but not overly so. We were at a fundraising event that involved a hiking trail and probably a hundred dogs or so. No issues interacting when I let him, ignoring all of the dogs except the ones in our group. No issues meeting any dogs so far.

-He still will bite anyone. My partner was saying last night as we were walking in the snow, 'I wish I could play with Brae without him biting me.' I said 'chase him! he loves that!' Well, my partner chased Brae, and with that forward pressure Brae immediately jumped and bit him. I said 'weird, I can chase him.' So I chased him, and Brae immediately whipped his head around and bit me. This was all totally play and not hard bites, but I can see him escalating if we ever pushed him harder. I put a ball in Brae's mouth, and then we could both chase him with him playing keep-away like a normal dog.


Overall though, there is no situation I don't trust him in and he's just perfect


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

I very rarely carry around a camera these days, and even rarer is when I have someone to film. But were in the right place at the right time to get some footage of me playing with Brae. We did a few minutes of disc, tug, and flirtpole. Here's a compilation:






(no sound because it's all wind and crunchy ice)

Otherwise, life has been the usual. Brae showed no changes when we lost Soro. He's just the happiest dog, happy to do literally anything with his people. My partner's biggest complaint is "I wish I could pet him without him going zero to sixty" but Brae is an amazing fit for our active little family. We don't have any huge plans this upcoming year. I'm working on some tricks here and there but really we just live and play together.

One video I will strive to get... Brae loves being pet SO MUCH that he'll even 'solicit petting' from pine trees of the right height. Like he'll just weave back and forth in the branches with his head thrown back, tongue out, back arched. Such. A. Goober.


----------



## oldNgray (Aug 3, 2018)

Wow, that is one major game of tug! I wouldn't have the stamina to play very long with a toy that big or a dog that strong! My girl loves her flirt stick. In a couple of months we'll need to upgrade to something a little stronger but not as big as yours.
You have really got your hands full with that beautiful pooch. Hopefully, the Zero-to-Sixty issue will resolve itself in the next year or two. My GSD mixes were hyper pups but mellowed out more and more as the years went by.
I've never seen a dog try to get pet by a pine tree. I would love it if you could grab a shot of that silliness!

I'm curious about the previous post, the one where Brae will sometimes bite while playing. Does giving him a ball always solve that problem? Or have you come up with a long-term solution?


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Hi oldNgray, thanks for appreciating my dog!

The 0-60 is not really an issue... I can pet Brae with him remaining relatively calm and we cuddle all the time. It's still *different* compared to petting Soro or a less frenetic dog. Sometimes he does act pretty normal and loose when pet. Sometimes he 'flails' his snout all over the place, settles into a very full-contact kind of position (like it's not enough that a hand is touching him, he has to be IN THE HAND), and then does deep breathing as he tries to handle it all. It's quite comical. The problem my partner has created (as he said himself) is he amps Brae up a lot. When I pet/cuddle with Brae, there are no surprises. My partner will be petting him and then slap him around to rile him up. It's no wonder Brae sees his interaction as a potential precursor to playtime.

The biting is also a very predictable behavior. He does not spontaneously snap at us. But if he *does not have something in his mouth* and you try to play rowdy with him, he will jump forward and bite. It's not malicious at all. But most other dogs I solicit play with in this way (playful pushing and grabbing, play bow at the dog, etc.) will get zoomies, jump back, jump forward, sometimes some head flipping or mouthing. But Brae does a very obvious lunge-and-bite. If there is a stick or pinecone or toy, he will redirect and get the toy. So he really tries his best to practice self control! The long term solution is we don't do physical play with Brae unless he has a toy in his mouth  

In general is a very forward and pushy dog. I see this in his dog interactions as well. He hasn't gotten into a scuffle and fought back yet. But if he is playing too rough and the other dog tells him off, he will stop what he is doing but he is still tall with high fast wagging tail. As in, the pressure from the other dog amps him up instead of bringing him down. Usually I call him off and he is fine. And when he is in a calmer state of mind, he will calmly walk away if another dog even passively shows no interest in playing. 

But the big picture is.... He is a high arousal dog. In the face of physical pressure he will always push back. He loves it when I kick him or hit him (quite hard) when we play tug. But he is not a dog I would let mingle among other dogs without supervision. He is around people and children regularly, super sweet, but I do not let people play tug with him.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

love the video  <3 I'm terrible at throwing a frisbee lol ... yall are a good team


----------



## 3GSD4IPO (Jun 8, 2016)

Canyx said:


> Hi oldNgray, thanks for appreciating my dog!
> 
> The 0-60 is not really an issue... I can pet Brae with him remaining relatively calm and we cuddle all the time. It's still *different* compared to petting Soro or a less frenetic dog. Sometimes he does act pretty normal and loose when pet. Sometimes he 'flails' his snout all over the place, settles into a very full-contact kind of position (like it's not enough that a hand is touching him, he has to be IN THE HAND), and then does deep breathing as he tries to handle it all. It's quite comical. The problem my partner has created (as he said himself) is he amps Brae up a lot. When I pet/cuddle with Brae, there are no surprises. My partner will be petting him and then slap him around to rile him up. It's no wonder Brae sees his interaction as a potential precursor to playtime.
> 
> ...


I have been staying away but thought to comment on this. 

With working dog breeds we have found there are "snatchers" and "carriers." Some dogs prefer to snatch a toy (we use a ball) and then lose interest (my training partner has such a dog and he snatches the toy but without someone engages on the rope he drops it and looks for "the next thing" with snatching being his best reward). Then there are carriers and their best reward is to have the toy in their mouth and that helps them be comfortable (you might want to consider this in your discussion of resource guarding a few posts back). They are happy to keep a toy in their mouth and Brae sounds like the latter (tho I do not know.. you know the dog and see him). 

This is a young working dog. As he matures he *may* get more serious about the slapping and playing. I can recommend that behavior cease. Use a toy or a ball (I like a ball on a rope and there are many varieties) and have that as something to unload on when he is riled up. Brae going for the toy when riled up can be less about self control and more about a safe thing to unload on. As he matures if he is a confident dog he may at some point CHOOSE to unload on your partner. Not saying he will, just saying it is something to consider. Nerve may be the determining difference in the choice the dog makes when more mature. 

A working dog should push back in the face of physical pressure (that is why they do "stick hits" in the drive in the protection routine). A good dog will amp UP and a not so good dog will be driven off and the two behaviors are separated by genetics (though a dog too young in the head can be driven off if the decoy introduces stick hits too soon.. and this is one of many reasons for a good decoy in _training_ that phase of work). And plese don't take "good" literally. It means "good for that work." Dog may not face up to physical pressure and still be a fine pet dog. I have learned I need to explain everything I say. 

You know your dog. I do not. I am just laying this out there as he is a working dog and what you describe is my (as you would describe) narrow range of focus and expertise.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Sometimes photoshoots get intense









Better...









Reward









Tryouts to be on Santa's sleigh team









Happy holidays!



(sorry for the sizes. The forum photo uploader keeps saying "invalid file" when I do it that way)


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

Love them all! What a handsome guy. Practicing the deer in headlights look with those antlers.


----------



## oldNgray (Aug 3, 2018)

The antler and Santa hat photos crack me up. I agree with Sydneynicole about the Deer-in-the-Headlights look. And the Santa pic reminds me of a kid who doesn't want his picture taken but is doing it just because mom says he has to. I especially like the last picture, where Brae is airborn, paws spread out with his catch firmly in his teeth. Nice shot.


----------



## Wet Beards (Jan 25, 2015)

lol, those are awesome pictures! 
Especially the last one.
My son tried to put antlers on Sage last year. She shook them off, grabbed them
and ran off. All that remained were bits of red material. 
Happy Holidays to you as well.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks all! The last pics were taken by a friend and I took some more this morning:









































Such a good boy.


----------



## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Those are some great pictures. He looks so grown up!


----------



## oldNgray (Aug 3, 2018)

I LOVE that big happy grin in the first pic. 
Looks like someone got a new tug rope for Christmas. No wonder he's smiling. 
Brrrr...looks cold with all that snow! Doesn't seem to phase Brae at all. Here in SoCal, residents complain that it's "freezing" when temps drop into the high 50s. Brrrrr!!!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Went on a nice walk today. Here are some photos (sorry for the file size; forum is not letting me upload it the other way)


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

And here are some of Brae leaping into the new year


----------



## Super_Nova (Dec 23, 2016)

What a handsome fella. I love the athleticism of Dutchies. Hope y’all had a good start to the new year.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

great pictures.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks SuperNova! I hope your year is good too so far and I hope your situation with Nova is resolved!
And thanks Patricia!

Here are a few pics from our snowshoe hike today:


















rare to see him roll in the snow, but he does do it!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Happy 2nd birthday to my boy! Other same-litter owners have been posting on FB and it's so nice to see all his siblings having a blast too.
We went on a hike, he got to play with a bunch of dogs, chase a disc, chew a bone, cuddle... Brae's just a very happy boy


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

Happy Birthday, Brae!! Looks like he had a blast.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

He did, thanks! 

Here's a vid from this morning. Sometimes I just want to casually kick a ball around. Brae never does anything casually.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

The snow is finally melting and we enjoyed the balmy, gorgeous weather today.






























And here's a somewhat sloppy video of some heelwork (on both sides) this afternoon. We didn't do it for a while and with just a smidge of bare ground it was a nice day to revisit it.





Man I love this dog. Despite being very high energy, high arousal, and overall one of the most intense dogs I've met, Brae is such an easy dog to live with these days. We chill, we play, we cuddle, we walk around... I never feel worried about how things will go with other dogs (compared to when I had Sor), with people, that he'd run away, etc. He's just amazing. The world feels very large and open with him. Classroom to mountaintops and all. I'm just very excited to have his company for the years to come.


----------



## oldNgray (Aug 3, 2018)

Love the video where Brae is not only following along in a heel but mimicking you in the tight turns. He is such a good boy waiting patiently for his chance to play with the toy.

Weather change in my area, too. We were just grumbling about how hot it was the past two days. Summer is breathing down our necks and will be in full force very soon -- too soon!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae's almost 2 and a half! Crazy how time flies... Some photos from today:









Pre and Post holding out a ball. That neck really grows 









The "throw the ball" face. If he knows I have a toy and we are next to any body of water, there is no cue I can give him that would prevent him from going a few feet then stopping and looking at me likes this. 























































In general, life is sweet. It still blows my mind that walking through the world with a dog could feel this easy. Granted, I think I've changed a lot too. A lot of Brae's busyness has rubbed off on me. There are behaviors I now find endearing that probably would have driven me mad years ago. The other day I was sitting on the floor, slightly leaning over to use my computer on the coffee table. Brae came over, cat-rubbed against my back, then sat on it - butt at an awkward angle but totally leaning into me. I didn't consciously notice but my partner did and said, "I think Brae's getting more clingy." I said "what do you mean?" and he said "do you see him right now?" What even is personal space anymore?  Though he does have a good off switch if he gets told to go away. It's also still very strange having a dog that is not very food motivated. Don't get me wrong... chicken, cheese, and even dry biscuits are desirable! But food, in general, falls below play and social interaction. We were in a pretty heavily used area today and Brae was ahead of me, nosing something in the grass. From where I was it looked like a ball. I was actually encouraging him to "Get it!" and such. When I got closer, I realized it was an entire dinner roll. He casually left it when I told him to and was even happier that I tossed him a real ball instead. I think about Soro and how he would have swallowed that bread before I even knew it was there. Brae didn't even take a nibble, whereas I am sure he would gladly eat a piece of bread at home (I've given him plenty of bread). I even think his food motivation has dropped. He used to enjoy pork skin rolls. A couple months ago, he would ignore them until I 'played' with it with him, then finish once he got started. Now there's a pig roll on the floor that's been there for two days.

Overall, Brae is still everything I've ever wanted him to be. An all-purpose dog. He's doing a great as my demo dog in class. We still do a little bit of everything, activity-wise. He's gotten even more level-headed around dogs - he is still social and eager to meet but greetings are much more neutral and brief now, without any input from me. Though he would still happily play if another dog engaged him, and at daycare he is still not a great match for high arousal dogs because he will gladly get to that level too. But I trust him around dogs and it's no big deal when we are out and about. I trust him with people too, as he is still social with humans. A few days ago a toddler came up to pet him and Brae was so appropriately gentle. When there's nothing better to do than greet people, he will moan and whine and yip out of excitement when they first pet him. When there's anything else going on, like if we are on a walk, on a hike, training, or if there's a toy, he totally ignores people. He does have a protective side and does a very menacing warning bark and charge if people are at the door, but I've done nothing to discourage that and I've only seen it turn into excitement once he knows they're friends. And if it's not appropriate (ex. mailman needing a signature), I have him wait on his bed and he is calm while I deal with the doorway situation. Of course, the toy situation is still the same. Iron grip, and goes gaga for any toy. His drive to bite and play are insatiable. 

Brae has set some pretty high standards. A year ago I thought, "I'm already so impressed and he could be the way he is now, forever, and I'd be thrilled." But somehow, he just keeps getting better and better in small ways. Or maybe I just appreciate him more and more every day. I don't know. I LOVE this dog.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

wow time has just flown by.. Grown up so Beautiful !!  So Happy for you two!


----------



## 3GSD4IPO (Jun 8, 2016)

I cannot "like" this with a button because there is none. I know how you feel. I feel that way about my boy. He is about the same age and is suddenly "coming into his own." NEVER thought I would own such a NICE dog! HAPPY FOR YOU!! Enjoy the Ride!!


----------



## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Aw, great to see about you and Brae! He sounds like a really nice and really fun dog.


----------



## laurelsmom (Feb 13, 2019)

l haven't had time to read all the way from the beginning yet; I'm saving that for when I have to dig myself out of a funk. 

I have appreciated your practical advice on other threads so it's nice to see someone I trust to be "sensible" obviously every bit as much in love with a 2 1/2 year old as I am with this goofy mutt puppy who came into my life last November so I could "rest on my Laurel(s)".



Canyx said:


> It still blows my mind that walking through the world with a dog could feel this easy.


I don't have your gift for the English language, so suffice it to say "me too".


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks for your kind comments everyone! I'm glad to share the experience here. Honestly I thought it would turn out to be more serious, like here is my chronicle as a first time working dog owner and 'what am I getting myself into?!' but it has turned into a much more lighthearted journey than I imagined. 
And of course, I am always happy to read all your updates too. How we all love our dogs in different lives and different ways.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Hilarious. New experience today... I realized Brae has never seen a balloon. I brought some home and his reaction was... surprising yet unsurprising. Unsurprising because what he does is totally who he is. Surprising because knowing that, I've discouraged that kind of over arousal all of his life. He has NEVER reacted at me like this before and I did not encourage him at all. Yes he has jumped for a toy here and there. But 99% of the time he is intensely focused and driven for toys but steady and not losing his mind. Today he lost his mind.

While I blow the balloon:






Playing with balloon (he must of popped a dozen today):






Really, I don't mind. It is a very specific situation and I was very amused. If he reacted that way every time I pulled out a tennis ball, I'd work on it. And since I'm always trainer minded, I even have a clip of what it would look like to work on the over arousal. But it's much less interesting than clips of him going crazy  But it just goes to show, I can train all I want but underneath it all this is who he is.


PS. His tail is wonky because he's been swimming a lot this week and he has limber tail. Clearly it doesn't hold him back...


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Some random photos and videos from this week.

Some pics from a hike with friends:













































When he makes this face, it means he needs to take a break. They were playing well but Brae was doing some intense herding and barking.


It's nice to let him just be a dog sometimes. But training is always happening, of course. Because he can be intense if he was allowed to run up to any dog, he's really good at checking in with me first. Here's a compilation of some of the dog greetings on that hike. I had to call him once since that dog was a familiar dog and he was excited. But all strange dogs, he automatically came to me and waited for a release cue to greet. If I sense the dog is not a good fit, I don't let him greet.







Lastly, a short compilation video of Brae working on 3 different food toys. It's interesting how he's trained by the toy to work them in different ways. I love watching the very deliberate ways he gets the kibble out.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

He's as stunning as ever


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

We did a long day hike today. 18 miles, 8 hours. Unsurprisingly, Brae was perfect through it all. We traversed some pretty challenging terrain: three knee-deep creek crossings with water cold enough to numb my skin, two snow fields with steep grades, 3000 feet of elevation gain to reach an alpine lake that still had ice over it. No hesitation or signs of tiring from Brae. And overall, he was extremely responsive and trail savvy, as always.


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

That sounds SO FUN and the pictures are absolutely gorgeous. I'm beyond jealous. Glad you guys had a nice hike!!


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

absolutely stunning... <3


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Today was a fun day!

Brae got to try out dock diving - a pool is available once a year during the local fair and that's it! I predicted he would jump in to get the toy, but that he would have a problem with the ledge. I was right! I am certain that if we had access to a pool he would learn to love it and fly. But alas  He still had a blast playing tug out of the water.






I love how stable this dog is. We waited about 15 minutes for our turn to play on the dock, with dogs all around, and he was chill (okay, he tried to grab the tug toy out of my hands a few times) and not disruptive to the other waiters at all. We walked around the fair through crowds of people, loud sounds, food, past a fence where he was 5' from a few cows, and he was just loose leash walking with a super casual wag and smile on his face. 


Then he got to do his absolute favorite thing, which is play tug with some of my coworkers who are stronger than me and can put up a decent fight (Brae still 'won')


----------



## Tater33 (Aug 17, 2019)

You are giving your dog a great life and fun life. Love the pics and videos.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

will try back again.. slow messed up internet I can't get the pictures to display... "it's killing me" wantah see so bad the dock diving ones....


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

The dock diving is NOT impressive, hahaa... As my friend put it, it's more like "dock flopping".


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Canyx said:


> The dock diving is NOT impressive, hahaa... As my friend put it, it's more like "dock flopping".


Kiran also dock flops. 

Mostly because he tries to jump like he would for agility and that's just not right LOL.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Ha! More parallel lives craziness with the two boys. 

Brae's very particular about jumping. He doesn't track things in the air; he just waits or expects them to land where they land. No strategy at all! And he's so athletic that I can have him do 180 flips predictably and continuously, but I am struggling to teach him to just hop straight up as a trick. Oh well


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Canyx said:


> The dock diving is NOT impressive, hahaa... As my friend put it, it's more like "dock flopping".


lol...  not sure my guys would be too impressed for the sport either..


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

We've had a lot of water fun this summer but I never bring a camera. Recently, I got a waterproof case and hopefully that inspires me to bring my camera out more! We went swimming and paddleboarding yesterday and Brae had a blast! Okay, I'll share a secret... He doesn't actually love paddleboarding. BUT, he loves me and he wants to be wherever I am. He's not afraid of the board by any means. He's always jumped on with no hesitation and he rides fine. But I can just tell by his body language that sitting still on a small, wobbly surface on top of the water is not his favorite thing. I cannot keep him off of it though! And I think it's because he's so attached to me.






Similar vein, Brae likes water - especially attacking streams from hoses and sprinklers. But doesn't love swimming for the sake of swimming. If we are by a body of water, he is totally fixated on fetch. Like I can't make him take a break as long as I'm within X feet of water and there is a toy. I've seen him not quit for over an hour. But it's all about the THING (fetch, tug) relative to the water. That said, I did some easy training here where I rewarded swimming out to me with a toss back to shore. He did great!







I'm seeing some subtle changes as he continues to mature. He's 2.5 yrs now. I'm noticing a stronger attachment to me (if that was even possible), and even more neutralness towards dogs. Usually on hikes we do the pattern where he disengages on his own, then comes back to me, then is released to greet if the other dog approaches. A few times on recent hikes, I've let him make decisions start to finish (ie, not marking anything, just continued walking), and he chose not to greet dogs who weren't interested in him. On a recent walk, he was greeted by a very bouncy player who matched Brae's play style well. They played for a few short seconds then Brae broke off to sniff. After he sniffed, I encouraged him to keep playing with the dog, who was giving off very appropriate and enthusiastic play signals, but Brae would look like he was about to engage but immediately break off. We lingered but he just wandered away to sniff on his own. The other dog was very sad not to be engaged!

I'm also more clearly seeing the line he draws with other dogs. We had a very concerning (but ultimately fine) situation a couple weeks ago. Brae and I had swam over to an island to play fetch. A man had an un-neutered pittie back on the opposite shore. Things were fine for a long time. Brae could care less about the other dog and was playing fetch in the water. But at some point, the man's young daughter dropped the pittie's leash and the dog came swimming over to our island. I let Brae engage, and there was some posturing between both boys but they seemed to enjoy playing a bit of chase. Very quickly though, the pittie's demeanor changed and he switched to intense posturing and growling. I immediately stepped in, put my hand on Brae's collar, body blocked and yelled at the other dog. He kept trying to come around me and get to Brae, but I kept swinging around too. Eventually, the dog gave up (and gave into his owner's yelling) and swam back across. I was very grateful that Brae listens well since I 'turned him off' so to speak. When the pittie escalated Brae was still trying to diffuse (moving away and not getting into the fight), but I could tell he was definitely ready to meet the occasion (barking, snapping back, stiff, high tail). Soro was a very confident dog - I never saw him lower his tail around another dog in the 12 years we had. Brae's the same. The only difference is Sor was an instigator and I never let Brae be that way. But I hope I never see him in a situation where the other dog doesn't back down. That said, I'll always have his back and he knows it. On a brighter note, he continues to do well with daycare and I make it a point to continue having him experience positive social situations, even if daycare is just 1-2 times a month.

All in all though, Brae's a good boy and I trust him whereas I don't trust the rest of the world. I never worry about him out on our adventures.


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

I can see these lol ... He's just gorgeous... think it's awesome and touching watching them mature into their own.. "taking the lead" I see it in Tasman he'll be 3 in December..


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae went under for OFA Xrays today (shoulda had him neutered, but I didn't think ahead enough!). When he was coming to, his legs were wobbly and his head was swaying. But he instantly latched onto the tug ball when I offered it and he did not let go. In hindsight, it was not a smart move on my part. Since he was not clear headed, he had an iron grip on it and would not drop on cue. Reminded me of his puppy days... learn to bite before learning to run


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Been a while...
OFA results came back: hips good and elbows normal.

Life is good! Brae is still everything I dreamed he would be. I just started another Tricks class and he is a spectacular demo dog. Went to a pet-friendly fundraiser where there were hundreds of people and dogs off leash, no problems. He responds so well to me and my partner, though he is still attached at the hip to me. If I'm not telling him to do otherwise, he likes to be touching me at all times. The only challenge I face is still the occasional sensitive gut and diarrhea. But don't tell this dog he's not spoiled...


----------



## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

OH my goodness lol <3


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Brae is still the best dog I could ever ask for. I still have yet to see him in a situation that he doesn't handle well. And I do everything with this dog.






























How stable is he around dogs? In this video I am conducting a private lesson and Brae is a few feet away from dogs he isn't able to greet.


He is still a classic Dutchie though. I can't water the garden without him attacked the hose spray. He thought my n95 mask was a toy at some point. And he is very, very intense. But I meet his needs and that keeps him happy and manageable day to day. Here's a clip that shows how that tug drive overrides most other things in life:


----------

