# Question: Non-Dwarf Corgis???



## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

With the wide array of knowledge and experience around the forum these days, I thought someone might know...I've been curious...

Is there such thing as a Corgi with, well, legs?

I realize that the short legs are due to a dwarfism gene, but are there ever "tall" pups born? Kind of like the "fluffy" (long-haired) corgis that pop up every so often?

(Yes, I know dwarfish and coat length gene inheritance is not exactly the same thing...work with me here)

Anyone?


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## Charlene (Sep 12, 2009)

i've never heard of such a thing. i doubt they exist.

i had corgis for years, just regular plain ole pems. had contact with lots of breeders and show people and this subject never came up.

does make ya go "hmmm"...


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

I think they call that a _Smooth Collie_.


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## BentletheYentle (Oct 6, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> I think they call that a _Smooth Collie_.


LOL.

It's not something I've ever heard of. I've talked to quite a few corgi breeders and that's not something that ever came up in their experience.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

The type of dwarfism they have is a dominant gene, if I remember correctly. Combine that with the fact that nearly the entire population of corgis is homozygous dominant for it (has no copy of the recessive "normal" allele), and the chances of having a corgi with long legs goes to nearly zero. The only way it could happen is if two short legged parents who happened to have a recessive allele floating around ended up together.

Further compounding the problem is that corgis aren't exactly a breed that is highly bred by BYB's and mills, so that makes it a larger proportion of them in the hands of show breeders. If a show breeder suddenly had a pup come out with long legs, they would spay/neuter that entire litter and both parents, not to mention contact anyone who has dogs of the lines that went into the parents.


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## kerplunk105 (Mar 5, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> I think they call that a _Smooth Collie_.


LOL


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Interestingly enough (to me at least) Cotons occasionally pop up with long legs.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks for the info...I assumed not, but last weekend someone described Webster's appearance as a "Corgi with Legs" so it got me thinking.


And no I don't really think Webster is a Corgi. If he is, it's one breed among many, and many of the others are terrier. Who knows he could be part Poodle too. Or Great Dane.


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## sukhakuli (Mar 9, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> Interestingly enough (to me at least) Cotons occasionally pop up with long legs.


I read about that, too. I love the way the tall ones look. I'm not really a little puff ball dog kind of person, but those tall ones are really good looking dogs. I imagine they are hard as heck to get, though. 

I'll ask my husband about the genetics of achondroplasia in humans. I know he has had many patients with it, so I think he is familiar with it. We were talking about the dwarf dogs breeds a few days ago and he started spouting off his Dr speak about it and I didn't listen.  I'll ask again, because now I'm curious. Usually when he starts yapping in latin I stop listening.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

There's a degree of variation in corgis- especially in mill and BYB dogs (and I'd argue that Pems especially have a lot of problems with mills and BYBs). 

If you look up some of the early corgis- Rozavel Red Dragon is the one I have in mind- there WAS more leg. And a lot of the mill dogs revert to that. But they're still dwarf-type structure.

Historically, the height and dwarf structure WAS largely the defining characteristic of he breed. So it makes sense that there's not really anything else in the gene pool. I suspect that a lot of the older breeds that are similarly long-and-low (Dachshunds, some of the terriers like Skyes) don't have a non-dwarf structure in their gene pool either. But there's variation- look at PGBVs compared to bassets- they're not nearly as extreme.


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## Charlene (Sep 12, 2009)

trumpetjock said:


> If a show breeder suddenly had a pup come out with long legs, they would spay/neuter that entire litter and both parents, not to mention contact anyone who has dogs of the lines that went into the parents.


what a crying shame that these same breeders are burying their heads in the sand and breeding corgis with a history of degenerative myelopathy in their bloodlines. this disease is taking over the pems at an alarming rate.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Charlene said:


> what a crying shame that these same breeders are burying their heads in the sand and breeding corgis with a history of degenerative myelopathy in their bloodlines. this disease is taking over the pems at an alarming rate.


That's totally off topic


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## Coffeecup (Mar 22, 2010)

It's a dominant allele indeed (type of dwarfism called chondrodysplasia) an extra gene that causes the overproduction of a protein that disrupts growth during development (extra stretch of DNA turned with a sequence almost identical to another gene important for limb development that appeared some years ago) Stubby leg breeds all share it. Only one copy is needed for chondrodysplasia to appear. Although it's possible for a long legged pup to pop up (and they probably do) it's rare because most breeders would cull them like they do with all other breeds/pups that don't fit the standard.

Pembroke Corgi standards in the past for leg length comparison and because it's interesting. hehe ;]

1920's


1930's


1980's


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

If I recall correctly, aren't there Jack Russell Terriers that come in both long legged and short legged? Maybe this is related? Lol!


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

What about the Swedish Valhund (sp?) they seem to have more leg than the Corgi. A lot straighter leg as well, less dense bone... My very limited experience, lol, I've only seen ONE SV in person.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Here's a regular coton:










And a tall:










I would totally get a 'tall' corgi if they existed. I love them but I don't like the short legs so much.


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## Charlene (Sep 12, 2009)

Shaina said:


> That's totally off topic


yes, it is and sorry about that but having lost my heart dog to this disease, i'll throw it out there anyway. people who are even thinking 'corgi' need to know about it.

i know a SV breeder in wisconsin and have seen her dogs several times. they're lovely and very sweet.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I think the DM thing is frankly, a REALLY different topic. 

I think it's undeniable that breeders need to be testing and breeding carriers or potentially affeceds to clears. But we STILL don't know why a significant portion of the dogs who are testing as 'affected' AREN'T ever coming down with the disease. It is a case of if they lived long enough, they would eventually, or something else? We just don't know yet.


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## JTGibber (Mar 27, 2020)

I've always thought my dog looked like a corgi with a full size body. Any ideas what he might be?


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

This is a ten year old thread. 

At a guess, I'd hazard that the dog on the left is likely a mix that includes Border Collie and some type of hound, possibly Beagle, and the dog on the right is some kind of terrier mix. Cute puppers.


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