# Should i get a caucasian mountain dog puppy ??



## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

I live in a duplexe house with a mid-sized rooftop which is provided with a proper dog shelter. Our house is in a moderately noisy- yet predictable- suburban environment with passing cars, chat and sounds from neighboring houses all day long....BUT NOT DURING THE NIGHT . 

So after i spent hours after hours carefully researching this breed's temperament , i realized that their temperament fits EXACTLY what i want in a dog.

I am planning to get it as a puppy, and looking forward to SELF TRAIN it and socialize it to the MAX to become a beloved family companion for me and my parents, as well as my personal jogging companion, guard dog and best friend

The only thing is that the dog will be staying during the night at the rooftop in his shelter(dog house). The rooftop is fairly large and there is plenty of room for him to run. 

BUT, i am really worried that the caucasian starts barking when left on the rooftop (especially at night) because i know THEY ARE VERY ALERT GUARD DOGS BY INSTINCT...and that could cause me some nasty & mouthy arguments with neighbors....

So my question is: IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A CAUCASIAN TO GET USED TO OUR SURROUNDING ENVIRONMENT FROM PUPPYHOOD AND NOT BARK AT ANY PASSING NEIGHBOR OR HUMAN WHEN ALERTED ? because i know it's an instinct this breed has....

The male puppy i like is now 35 days old and still at the breeder's. I am planning to get it when it reaches 8 weeks old.

thanks and help is appreciated.


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

I would say probably not. You can't train instinct out of a dog, if they are bred to be a guard dog then naturally they'll be suspicious of anyone going by. It's what they're supposed to do, so they will. Plus, on top of that, they are meant to be a livestock dog, similar to a Great Pyrenees. A Caucasian will be miserable in a city, it is meant to be in the country with room to roam. A dog like this needs a JOB, and if it doesn't bark to be protective it WILL bark because it's bored.

have you owned a dog before? The Caucasian is a very dominant breed, and since they are so large they will absolutely be a handful for an inexperienced owner. No matter what your intention, unless you're getting professional help (which I assume you wouldn't be since you said you wanted to self train), if this is only your first or second dog, and especially if you've only owned small dogs or 'easier' dogs, I'd advise you to choose one that is slightly less dominant.

Good luck!

http://www.flockguard.org/cmd/cmdowner.htm

there's a link to some stories by a few owners, hopefully that will solidify for you that right now this is not the breed for you.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

I agree. This is not the right breed for city dwelling. They are also very much working livestock guard dogs and very dominant. Definitely not for the inexperienced dog owner and not even for most experienced ones.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

skelaki said:


> This is not the right breed for city dwelling


Well i live in a suburban "busy" neighborhood, not in a city like u're imagining. And the country and forest are just 5 minutes away in the car. 
Also, like i mentioned in my post, i am planning to take the dog on walks(in the forest), socialize it with everyone i know and obedience train it from the moment i get it.
Just thought i would mention this


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

qwerty80 said:


> Well i live in a suburban "busy" neighborhood, not in a city like u're imagining. And the country and forest are just 5 minutes away in the car.
> Also, like i mentioned in my post, i am planning to take the dog on walks(in the forest), socialize it with everyone i know and obedience train it from the moment i get it.
> Just thought i would mention this


It's also not a very good choice for suburban dwelling. 

The Caucasian Mountain Dog has a keen sense of hearing and is quick to alert to strange sounds. This means that the breed is often noisy and barks a lot, especially at night. These traits must be carefully considered by the potential owner. Because the Caucasian Mountain Dog has functioned as a livestock guardian and a predator animal, he will protect the yard from a wolf, a coyote, a mountain lion, and the neighbor's dog. 

The Caucasian Mountain Dog will get along with family pets in a pack situation as long as he is "second in command". But keep in mind, this breed has a history of fighting off with wolves and is very, very large and strong. If a fight breaks out amongst family pets, the Caucasian can easily hurt another family pet. An owner must be the alpha figure in the family, in other words, the "top dog" and must lay down the law to the pack.

Be very sure that the breeder is a member of the Caucasian Ovcharka (Mountain Dog) Club of America, Inc. (C.O.C.A.) and is listed under current approved breeder list. This is your only guarantee that the dog you are getting is an authentic, purebred (see History) and that strict breed practices have been followed. Be sure to get details about the temperament/character of the parents, whether they are working farm dogs or family pets, and also the results of the hip x-rays.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

We don't have any family pets around the neighborhood, neither in the house.
And regarding the parents, well the puppy's father has a VERY aggressive temperament, and used to be stock guardian.....His mother is even tempered.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I don't think this sounds like a good choice for you at all. 

If you like the big fuzzy guardian idea, what about a Leonberger? 

I think the barking is a major dealbreaker. CMDs are not meant to live within earshot of neighbors. I think that you could train a dog to deal with the rooftop- but asking them NOT to bark when someone walks by or a car drives by is like asking the sun not to shine. Being a guard is what they are FOR.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

2+ on Leonbergers over the Caucasian Mountain Dog. They're a much mellower dog that's better suited to the situation you describe.


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

100% agree on the Leonbergers. If you read any of the stories in the link I sent you, you will understand that the CMD is really not meant to be a pet. They are a working dog, period.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

kpollard said:


> 100% agree on the Leonbergers. If you read any of the stories in the link I sent you, you will understand that the CMD is really not meant to be a pet. They are a working dog, period.


Wow, just very healthy info on that link you gave ! 
Thank you!
I guess i have to think twice about this.
How about a HUSKY? that was actually my first choice and i have intensively researched everything about its temperament and i was willing to take the plunge. That was before i met the CO....
See, there's something that i did not mention in my thread: I AM WILLING TO DEDICATE AMLOST ALL MY TIME TO TRAIN MY FUTURE PUPPY ( husky or CO).
And also, my bro has owned more than 8 dogs over the years, ranging from rotweilers to pitbulls to german sheppards and he can really help me in training almost ANY breed i get...
So, a husky? what do u think?


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

i think a husky will spend most if not all of its time trying to excape.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I think a husky would be a better choice than a CMD, but is still an extremely poor choice for most pet owners.


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## MarleysGirl (Apr 11, 2008)

I think the leonberger is better looking than the CMD. I realize this is not the main thing the OP is basing their decision on, but its just my two cents.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

If you're new to dogs, I really think you should look into getting a less difficult dog. 

If you want the fluffy wolfy look, what about a Keeshond?

Or if you're looking for a big dog, what about a St. Bernard or a Newfoundland?

Whatever you choose, I'd REALLY look into puppy obedience classes. Training a dog by yourself, no matter what the breed, can be a difficult task. You may even unknowingly reinforce bad behavior!! If you want a well mannered dog, look into professional training!

And.. did you say you were keeping your dog on the roof? Umm.. that doesn't sound like the ideal environment for any animal other then a pidgeon. Please, if you get a dog, keep it as an indoor dog, at least for most of the time. Dogs are pack animals, and need your love an affection!! Don't banish him to solitude on the top of your house.... Plus, it could get very hot during summer. All of the breeds everyone has suggested do bad in heat, and if there is no shade/water/dirt for them to lay in... you're gonna have a VERY unhappy dog.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Nargle said:


> If you're new to dogs, I really think you should look into getting a less difficult dog.
> 
> If you want the fluffy wolfy look, what about a Keeshond?
> 
> ...


Hi and tx for the message and for the concern :

1- Well, the reason i thought of a husky is because of the fact that they are the cleanest of all dogs(no doggy smell or very little) and they can also tolerate heat as they can tolerate cold because of their undercoat.

2- The dog will be staying only at night on the rooftop. And there is plenty of shade, not to mention its own dog house and a fairly large space to run around.

3- I'm currently living with my parents and they are both NOT dog enthouthiasts . That's why i thought of a husky(clean, no barking, occasional howls= easy to introduce to parents)

4- I am ready for training! just bring it on! i've been studying online all the tricks how to teach puppies housebreaking and obedience training.

5- I am getting a puppy, not a 10 months old dog.

6- The puppy will be brought inside the house most of the day and taken on daily jogs and walks.


That's why the husky was and, now, is back to be: my choice....


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Um.... 

You realize that huskies, while not prone to doggy odor, shed a TON, right? 

I volunteered for husky rescue last in 2001. I was finding husky hair in that car until I sold it FOUR YEARS LATER.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

If your parents are not dog enthusiasts... please don't get a husky. Living in northern minnesota and being actively involved with many mushers has given me the opportunity to meet literally hundreds (probably thousands) of huskies, alaskan and siberian.

They are absolutely terrible pets for a first time dog owner (no matter how much you've studied) with parents who don't like dogs. Who told you they don't bark? They're 100% wrong. Huskies are one of the most vocal breeds you will ever find. Granted, most of it isn't barking persay, but it is loud and dang near constant - especially when they want something. They may not smell, but they SHED SHED SHED. They like to DIG. They are master escape artists, and once their gone... good luck. They can easily clear 30+ miles before even stopping to think "Where the heck am I?".

I REALLY like the suggestion of a Leonberger for you. Here's a couple links to some info on them, please give them a serious look, I'm convinced you will be pleasantly surprised.
http://www.leonbergerclubofamerica.com/breedinfo.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonberger


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> I REALLY like the suggestion of a Leonberger for you. Here's a couple links to some info on them, please give them a serious look, I'm convinced you will be pleasantly surprised.


But why underestimate my strong will, desire and focus to train my puppy to be a great obedient HAPPY husky??? 

I can succeed!...

Anyway, I WILL take a look at the Leonberger.

Thank you very much for your message))


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Your parents are not dog enthusiasts? Oh my gosh, please, please don't get a husky. Yes, they may not smell, but they need SO much stimulation and excersize, and they are NOT for a beginner, especially if you want to train them yourself!! I'm certain that a crazy terror ripping up your house is much worse then a little doggy odor!

What about a schipperke? They groom themselves like cats, and I was under the impression that THEY were the cleanest of all dogs


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Time and dedication are probably the LEAST important traits when it comes to ability to train a husky. Creativity, a sense of humor, major persistance, and possibly an ability to work miracles would all rate higher on my list of 'Traits Needed To Train Huskies" list. They're great dogs but the more detail you go into about your situation, the more I think they're a poor choice for you. 

If it's the 'wolfy' look, what about a Eurasier? They're a LOT lower-key, much easier to motivate and train for a novice dog owner, and generally overall an easier dog to own. They would NOT be able to be an outside dog- they're much more people-oriented than the husky. I really don't know that ANY dog is going to be happy as an outside dog in the situation you've described though.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

Before I got Linkin and needed a dog to bring to school with me, I had my heart set on getting a husky. Not just any husky, but an Alaskan Husky, one of the pups from a local breeder who mushes. Huskies have always been a fave of mine. I was adviced by several dog enthusiasts to NOT get a husky, especially for the work I would be doing at school. Instead I was suggested a Malinios or GSD. Linkin kind of fell into my lap (GSD/Boxer) and thank god he did because HE was almost too much to handle (although he did come with a lot of bagage), and while he excells at everything I teach him he doesn't do it easily. There was one girl at school who actually DID bring a husky, and another guy who had a husky cross. Both dogs did terrible. For one, they were too independent and were constantly challenging their owners after being told what to do for a week. For another they just weren't good at the tasks we had to do, at all. I listened to stories from each owner and decided that yeah, the Husky was NOT the breed for me at this time in my life.

Years from now when I have the land and the time for a husky, I will probably look into it again... but when you're still living with your parents who basically decide all rules, and you don't have the adequate space and securing fencing, and most of all knowledge about training, it's just not a good idea.

I really like the Leoberger suggestion as well! 

As for the shedding... the girl in my class with the husky, her dog shedded a LOT. One day we took the furmonator to him and boy, we got a whole 'nother dog out of it! lol


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

My SO wanted a husky a year ago...


So i researched.... alot...

Every person, website, video, etc was som'one trying to talk you out of a husky (kinda like what we are doing)

They bark btw, i don't know why anyone would say they don't.

Please don't get a working dog as your first dog, there are lots of other clean breeds out there. 

If you are up for a more difficult to train dog, and you like the husky look, may i suggest this dog










Shiba Inus are a mediumish breed.
They are independant (thus wont freak if left alone on the roof) 
They are clean. 
The adapt easy.
They tend not to bark. 

They are more of a bird dog, so there is no huge drive to work work work work like a husky.

akcs take on them... http://www.akc.org/breeds/shiba_inu/index.cfm

Just a suggestion.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Criosphynx said:


> akcs take on them... http://www.akc.org/breeds/shiba_inu/index.cfm
> 
> Just a suggestion.


Very interesting, a husky breeder online also mentioned that he uses a shiba_inu for guarding his farm.

This is the second time i come across that dog . 

I will take a look at it.

Thank you)


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

I have a suggestion for you... If you get a working dog, PLEASE don't get it from stock used for actual work. If the breeder lives on a farm, most likely the dogs are bred to work on a farm. You do not have a farm. So.. if anything, I would at least look for breeders who breed for confermation/companionship, rather then actual work. Otherwise, you'll have a real mess of a dog on your hands, going mad out of its mind trying to jump off of the roof!!

In my opinion, a shiba may be better then a husky, but they're still not a beginner breed. Please look into Keeshonden? =3

(PS, let the dog sleep in a crate in your bedroom, not the roof!)


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## j.le (May 13, 2008)

qwerty80 said:


> But why underestimate my strong will, desire and focus to train my puppy to be a great obedient HAPPY husky???
> 
> I can succeed!...


i have to agree with everyone who thinks you are getting in way over your head and please don't think i am being difficult or cynical because i am a new dog owner and not a dog snob. 

before i got my puppy i had wanted one for years and naturally i went into crazy dog mode like yourself, reading every dog training book, watching animal planet non-stop. i would drive everyone crazy with lectures about raw feeding, training methods, growth stages, crate training, etc. so when i finally brought the little guy home you'd think everything went smoothly, right? not so much. i'm sorry but after going through the first months of puppy ownership i can honestly tell you that you are only half as prepared as you think you are and it will be twice as hard. after i got logan, i fell in love with him and he is a joy but he did not always act like the books or anything close and he is a toy poodle, which is considered an easy breed. 

it's easy to say you are willing to WORK and make sacrifices before the fact but when push comes to shove i doubt you really want to center your entire life around a new dog and you shouldn't have to. so please take everyone's comments not necessarily as harsh criticism but as concern for both you and your future puppy. 

the reason why your situation does not seem promising is #1 you are a first time dog owner #2 you are looking at a very difficult breed #3 your living situation does not meet that of the breed's requirements (sorry but country and suburb with forest 5 minutes away may not seem that different to you but it will to you dog) #4 the other members of your family are not 100% supportive. any one of these factors is hard to deal with, but all 4 at once...yikes. 

maybe you could be that 1 in a million person who can make it work but why would you want to needlessly go against those odds? sure, dog ownership comes with responsibility but at the end of the day a dog should enhance your life, not burden it.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I agree completely with the no-husky idea. When it comes to owning a husky, it's not really about how much time you're willing to spend to train it. It's more about being able to accommodate the husky's natural drives and desires like that to dig, to howl, to run for miles every day (I think RBark, a husky owner here, runs his dogs for 10 miles a day or something), to pull, and to generally act out whenever understimulated (and by "understimulated", I mean "didn't get those 10 miles a day.")

Huskies are VERY demanding dogs. They need hours of hard physical exercise a day, and even more hours of mental stimulation.

No matter how much time you're willing to put in, a Husky is never going to become that perfect, quiet dog that is perfectly content to spend their nights alone on the roof and ignore passing noises. It's not what they were bred to be.

Also, they shed tons. And I mean TONS. 

I second/third/fourth the Leonberger suggestion.


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

Nargle said:


> I have a suggestion for you... If you get a working dog, PLEASE don't get it from stock used for actual work. If the breeder lives on a farm, most likely the dogs are bred to work on a farm. You do not have a farm. So.. if anything, I would at least look for breeders who breed for confermation/companionship, rather then actual work. Otherwise, you'll have a real mess of a dog on your hands, going mad out of its mind trying to jump off of the roof!!
> 
> *In my opinion, a shiba may be better then a husky, but they're still not a beginner breed. Please look into Keeshonden*? =3
> 
> (PS, let the dog sleep in a crate in your bedroom, not the roof!)




Yep! Like i said , its a harder to train dog. 

But the OP seems to like the idea of a challenge and probably wont ever want an _easy_ dog. (well maybe after they've gone through a hard one themselves lol)

Sometimes with this stuff its all about the lesser of two evils.... that said, I will second the keeshond idea... didn't even think about them...


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## bluedawg (Apr 20, 2008)

The COD has been succesfully been raised and kept in urban areas by *experienced* owners. Even if you lived on Brokeback Mountain I wouldnt recomend a COD for a first time dog owner.

ETA: Then again Aussie Shepherds or Alaskan Huskys arent really first time owner dogs and Blue is both and is a pretty dang good dog.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> Well i live in a suburban "busy" neighborhood, not in a city like u're imagining. And the country and forest are just 5 minutes away in the car.
> Also, like i mentioned in my post, i am planning to take the dog on walks(in the forest), socialize it with everyone i know and obedience train it from the moment i get it.
> Just thought i would mention this



Hate to burst your bubble, but this dog is a working dog, and suburbia just isn't going to cut it! This dog needs a job, and walks with you will never provide adequate exercise. Socialization and obedience training are great, but it doesn't solve the problem of what this breed needs.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Nargle said:


> Please look into Keeshonden? =3


So far, from all the breeds you folks have kindly suggested, i like the newfoundland. 
His size and temperament kinda fits what i'm looking for.
I'll look around and ask how much they cost and check my balance and keep my options open.


And Nargle, the Keeshonden is kinda mid-small sized.
I 'm looking for a mid/large/giant breed with fur .



Nargle said:


> If you get a working dog, PLEASE don't get it from stock used for actual work. If the breeder lives on a farm, most likely the dogs are bred to work on a farm.
> (PS, let the dog sleep in a crate in your bedroom, not the roof!)


Well, fortunately for me, both parents of the husky litter that i might look at in 2 weeks have both wonderful temperaments.
They DO live at a farm yes....But the breeder uses them for companionship.
They are both calm, eager to please and friendly.

Does that help a little bit in "molding" my situation to the husky side?


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Newfies are great dogs. The only real downside is that they drool ... ALOT! They do require firm, consistent training and a lot of exercise (swimming exercise if possible). If you go this route, be sure and make sure the parents have been OFA'd and have all appropriate health clearances.

Here's a good evaluation of the pros and cons of Newfoundlands:

Newfoundlands
What's good about 'em
What's bad about 'em 

There are energetic Newfoundlands, and placid Newfoundlands. 
Hard-headed Newfoundlands, and sweet-natured Newfoundlands. 
Serious Newfoundlands, and good-natured goofballs. 
Introverted Newfoundlands, and Newfoundlands who love everyone. 

If you acquire a Newfoundland puppy, you can't know for sure what he or she will grow up to be like. Because a good number of purebred puppies do NOT grow up to conform to the "norm." 


Now let's look at some common characteristics for this breed...


If you want a dog who... 

Is heavy and powerful, with a thick furry coat 
Is steady-tempered with everyone 
Loves pulling carts and sleds and romping in cold weather 
Is responsive to training in a slow, good-natured way 
A Newfoundland may be right for you.


If you don't want to deal with... 

A very bulky dog who takes up a lot of space in your house and car 
A heavy dog who wants to sit on your feet, lie on your lap, and lean his weight against your leg 
Rowdiness and exuberant jumping when young 
"Separation anxiety" and destructiveness when left alone too much 
Fearfulness in some lines, or when not socialized enough 
Some stubbornness and/or dominance problems, especially in males 
Heavy shedding 
Slobbering and drooling 
High price tag -- $1000 and up 
Serious health problems and a short lifespan 
A Newfoundland may not be right for you.



My major concerns would be:


Providing the proper balance of exercise. Young Newfoundlands need enough exercise to keep them lean and healthy, but not so much that their soft growing bones, joints, and ligaments become over-stressed and damaged. Adult Newfoundlands need more exercise to keep them in shape, but not in hot or humid weather for fear of overheating. The proper amount of exercise can be difficult to regulate in giant breeds.
Since you have to minimize their exercise, young Newfoundlands can be very rambunctious. They will romp with uncoordinated gawkiness all over your house. You need to substitute extra quantities of companionship and supervision. Otherwise, left alone, young Newfoundlands become bored and destructive -- and their powerful jaws can literally destroy your living room.


I strongly recommend that you get your Newfoundland involved in obedience classes at the intermediate or advanced level, or tracking, or pulling a cart or sled, or even just hiking and swimming. This is a working dog who needs something interesting to do. 


Bounciness. Young Newfoundlands (up to about two years old) romp and jump with great vigor, and things can go flying, including people.

If you have small children, or if you or anyone who lives with you is elderly or infirm, I do not recommend Newfoundland puppies. 


Separation anxiety. More than most other breeds, Newfoundlands need a great deal of companionship and do not like being left alone for more than a few hours. They tend to express their unhappiness through destructive chewing. If you work all day, this is not the breed for you.

Providing enough socialization. Newfoundlands need extensive exposure to people and to unusual sights and sounds. Otherwise their natural caution can become shyness or suspiciousness, which is difficult to live with.

Strong temperament in males. Many Newfoundlands, particularly young males, are not pushovers to raise and train. Some are willful and dominant (they want to be the boss) and will make you prove that you can make them do things. You must show them, through absolute consistency, that you mean what you say. Some Newfoundland males are also dominant or aggressive toward other male dogs. 


Heavy shedding. Newfoundlands are one of the heaviest shedders of all breeds. You'll find hair and fur all over your clothing, upholstery, carpeting, under your furniture, on your countertops -- even in your food. Frequent vacuuming will become a way of life. Make sure you're REALLY up for this.

Slobbering. Most people are not prepared for how much Newfoundlands slobber and drool, especially after eating or drinking. When they shake their heads, you will literally be toweling saliva and slime off your clothes, furniture, and walls.

Paying the price. Many breeders are charging $1000 and up.

Serious health problems. The lifespan of a Newfoundland is short and an alarming number are crippled by bone and joint diseases and/or succumb to cancer in middle age.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

j.le said:


> it's easy to say you are willing to WORK and make sacrifices before the fact but when push comes to shove i doubt you really want to center your entire life around a new dog and you shouldn't have to. so please take everyone's comments not necessarily as harsh criticism but as concern for both you and your future puppy.


I understand. And i agree with you. 
BUT my current lifestyle is somewhat exceptional right now, and now u're forcing to shed the light on it  :
I am a recording artist/composer who is taking a long break from anything that has to do with music. All i wanna do is spend time with my parents, get a dog(puppy) and give it 100% of my time and my commitment.
And when i say "long break", it's not 2, 3, or 4 months....It's going to be at least a year till i go back to "work".
ALSO, that does not mean that after a year or two, i will give up on the dog! NO WAY! 
What i mean is that i will be spending 100% of my time (!) with my dog during the most sensitive period of his life ( puppyhood---> 1 year). 
What more can a dog ask for? 
That's why, i am blindly convinced that whichever breed i get ( most likely it still is gonna be a husky), that dog will be fortunate to be happy camper with me.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> I understand. And i agree with you.
> BUT my current lifestyle is somewhat exceptional right now, and now u're forcing to shed the light on it  :
> I am a recording artist/composer who is taking a long break from anything that has to do with music. All i wanna do is spend time with my parents, get a dog(puppy) and give it 100% of my time and my commitment.
> And when i say "long break", it's not 2, 3, or 4 months....It's going to be at least a year till i go back to "work".
> ...


Puppyhood, or at least adolescence, will stretch to a minimum of three years. Two if you are lucky. In fact, it's after the first year of its life that a dog starts to need the most exercise.

Also, just because a husky is an adult doesn't mean it doesn't need a good two hours of running each day, and plenty of mental exercise. Their exercise needs escalate way beyond their adolescence, throughout their entire lifetime. Maybe you can run with him for miles every day and take him hiking in the woods for the first year, but will you be able to do that three years from now? Eight years from now?



> That's why, i am *blindly* convinced that whichever breed i get ( most likely it still is gonna be a husky), that dog will be fortunate to be happy camper with me.


I think you put it best yourself. 

Please do NOT let yourself be blinded by your conviction that no matter what dog you get, he is going to grow up well-balanced and healthy. Look at your own lifestyle and think about whether you will be able to provide the hours of exercise your dog will need, every day, for the next ten years or so. Make sure you are ready to come home to a ripped up rooftop and a completely destroyed couch once in awhile. Don't fool yourself into thinking that just because you have lots of time to spend with your dog, things like this are never going to happen. I can almost guarantee they will.


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

does it *have* to be a young puppy? If so, why?


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Criosphynx said:


> does it *have* to be a young puppy? If so, why?


Because i wanna raise, train and "mold" the dog temperament to grow up the way i want.
And actually, i am considering maybe putting the puppy inside the house , in my mini baby bed that i use to sleep in while i was a baby. And when its around 6 months, i'll move it up to the roof. 
That will be the best scenario.


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

qwerty80 said:


> Because i wanna raise, train and "mold" the dog temperament to grow up the way i want.
> And actually, i am considering maybe putting the puppy inside the house , in my mini baby bed that i use to sleep in while i was a baby. And when its around 6 months, i'll move it up to the roof.
> That will be the best scenario.


Why not just pick an adult dog that has the temprament and energy level you want already? 

Puppies are a huge gamble. You can never really know what your getting. I know it seems like a good idea to "raise" a dog, to get what you want, but ussually, i think theres no better way to end up with a dog you don't want... 

Hence why shelters are FULL of one year old dogs.....temprament/energy levels are almost impossible to predict and are often just too high.


Any dog can be trained the way you want of course... In fact an older dog will have more focus and be easier to train than a puppy.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Criosphynx said:


> Why not just pick an adult dog that has the temprament and energy level you want already?
> 
> Puppies are a huge gamble. You can never really know what your getting. I know it seems like a good idea to "raise" a dog, to get what you want, but ussually, i think theres no better way to end up with a dog you don't want...
> 
> ...


It's gonna be much easier to introduce an 8 week old fluffy clean little husky puppy to my parents than introduce any other breed's 2 year old....
My parents are also a priority here.....
I can't just hump the ladder here. Am thinking about my parents also...


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> Because i wanna raise, train and "mold" the dog temperament to grow up the way i want.
> And actually, i am considering maybe putting the puppy inside the house , in my mini baby bed that i use to sleep in while i was a baby. And when its around 6 months, i'll move it up to the roof.
> That will be the best scenario.


The more I read your posts, the more I feel like a Husky isn't for you. 

A Husky's temperament is far from "moldable". Most Husky owners I know have molded THEIR lifestyles to suit their dogs' personalities. 

Dogs of different breeds aren't just identical animals that come in different shapes and sizes. They have naturally predisposed instincts that can be very difficult, almost impossible to train out. Maybe it would help if you told us what you're looking for in a dog. Energy levels, trainability, guarding instinct? Grooming? What about temperament? Friendly to strangers or aloof? 

I also wanted to add that a 6 month old Husky puppy -- or any puppy for that matter -- left unattended on the roof for an extended period of time spells very bad trouble.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

Since everyone else seems to be doing a great job of trying to steer you towards a better direction, I think I've thought of another useful advice you could use that doesn't involve which breed you should get.

I have (a LOT of) papers written up all about the Puppy Aptitude Test. If you would like Il'l try and get the basics of it typed up either this morning before work or later this evening after work. They're pretty simple and easy tests you can do on a whole litter and individual puppies to help you decide which puppy out of a litter has the right temperment and disposition that would suit your lifestyle best.

And remember... what suits your lifestyle and what you want aren't always the same thing  I absolutely love high energy, crazy, inteligent breeds that I can work hard and that learn quickly. However, at this point in my life, and probably even once i have room in my life for another dog, this is not what I'll be getting. I've had these types of dogs for years and I've found my life isn't offering as much time as they need at this moment. So what you like in a dog, and what you need in a dog aren't always the same thing... and it by far doesn't mean the dog you need will mean any less just because it isn't what you really want to work with. EVERY dog has it's challenges, just some more than others!


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

rosemaryninja said:


> The more I read your posts, the more I feel like a Husky isn't for you.
> 
> A Husky's temperament is far from "moldable". Most Husky owners I know have molded THEIR lifestyles to suit their dogs' personalities.
> 
> ...


Everything in the CO's temperament fits what i want in a dog: one man guard dog, trainable, giant, furry, dedicated to the WHOLE family, does not drool and most importantly, happy to live outdoors and can tolerate heat and cold because of his thick coat.
My strategy was to get a CO puppy and mold his temperament into less aggressive from the MOMENT he steps into the house. Also, my bro is a dog trainer and has owned more than 8 dogs over the years, ranging from pitbulls to rotweilers to GSDs...you name it. So in the worst case scenario, he cam show me the ropes on how to handle ANY dog. 
But, obviously, you guys taught me out of getting a CO.

The husky choice was also there, just for the fact that I CAN get it inside the house because it's clean and no doggy smell and introduce it to parents and make it part of the family. His temperament? well...that's why i like a challenge and i'm ready for it! but no one here is believing in me


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

I think we all believe you want a challenge, we just don't think you know what KIND of a challenge you'll be getting yourself into.

I wouldn't call Huskies a clean breed if they shed constantly...

The problem isn't that we don't believe you when you say you have the time (right now) and determination and obviously guidance from your brother... those are all very helpful and will deffinately give you an upper hand over someone who doesn't have these things and wants the same type of breeds. However, you really have to consider it from all angles. Don't be blinded by your love of a breed. Most temperments CAN'T be really molded. If you have a dog who's bred to be a gaurdian and has aggressive tendencies then there will be no changing those things. You CAN train the dog to gain control but it takes a LOT of work over the average, "easy" breeds, and you will never have 100% control. You wouldn't be able to take the dog to an off leash dog park, or anywhere off leash for that matter.

If I do recall, one of your first concerns in this thread was that you live in a fairly quiet neighborhood at night and the dog would be sleeping on the roof (which, I still don't honestly understand but I'm assuming you don't have a roof like ours lol). Huskies ARE noisey. Have you ever been to a mushing race? You can't hear yourself THINK! You don't want a dog that's going to be a hassel to your neighbors OR your parents, so why get a noisey breed? Any dog is going to bark at noises and passer byers. ANY dog. You can teach a dog to be quiet on command, but it's not going to stop them from barking in the first place, and if you're sleeping there's no way you can tell the dog to be quiet. Not to mention it takes some time to teach a dog to be quiet on command so while you're teaching it this your neighbors are going to be the ones suffering.

Have you talked to your brother about what breed would be best suited for your lifestyle, and what his HONEST opinion is? If he's giving his HONEST opinion, and is as dog savvy as you say, I don't think he'd be suggesting a Caucasion OR a Husky.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

I hate to be a wet blanket here, but I just have to ask.... 

Can you show us a pic of where this dog will be kept? A roof top is not a good place to keep a dog. 

Since your parents are not into dogs, I don't think they will like any puppy or dog you bring into the home. 

Is your brother a professional dog trainer? 

Wishing you good luck in whatever you choose to do.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

DogGoneGood said:


> Have you talked to your brother about what breed would be best suited for your lifestyle, and what his HONEST opinion is? If he's giving his HONEST opinion, and is as dog savvy as you say, I don't think he'd be suggesting a Caucasion OR a Husky.


My brother understands that the CO fits my requirements, but he did warn me about the barking at night and said that it's gonna be inevitable. He basically said that if i am willing to hear whines from neighbors and complains from dad and mom during the night, then get a CO. 
He left it up to me. 
About the training process, obedience, he said not to worry about it, he could help in that.


My bro is a huge Rotweiller fan and believes that they are the sweetest dogs on earth. And that was his recommendation for me from the start. But i don't really care about non-furry breeds....


Regarding the husky, he seems OK with it.



DogGoneGood said:


> Since everyone else seems to be doing a great job of trying to steer you towards a better direction, I think I've thought of another useful advice you could use that doesn't involve which breed you should get.
> 
> I have (a LOT of) papers written up all about the Puppy Aptitude Test. If you would like Il'l try and get the basics of it typed up either this morning before work or later this evening after work. They're pretty simple and easy tests you can do on a whole litter and individual puppies to help you decide which puppy out of a litter has the right temperment and disposition that would suit your lifestyle best.


I would greatly appreciate if u do that. Thank you.


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## Spitzy (Oct 13, 2007)

Patt said:


> Can you show us a pic of where this dog will be kept? A roof top is not a good place to keep a dog.


I'm also rather curious about this rooftop area. Honestly, reading about the idea of a husky kept on a roof is making me cringe. Big time. Likely because, about a year ago, I witnessed a neighbor's husky leap off a 2 & 1/2 story balcony. (And it had a bared, tall railing.) The fall was not pretty. At all. After lying frighteningly still for a minute, the dog preceded to get to his feet and run out into the street and get hit by a car. It was absolutely horrible. But really, not surprising considering a husky’s nature. (Escapist, running.) I don’t know what my neighbors were thinking, giving their dog access to the balcony; especially when they weren’t right there to supervise.

I love huskies. Sometimes, I think that someday I would like to add one to my family. Their propensity to make and take opportunities to escape is one reason why I probably won’t. Sort of in your, OP's, earlier words - they are not prone to being a *dedicated* family dog.

Also, a point that has been brought up a number of times and is pinging for me: this idea that a heavy coated dog is good in the heat. I've seen info on how it is bad to shave down these types of coats because the coat helps in heat regulation. But... "able to tolerate" is different than it being a good idea to leave this type of dog outside in the heat. I dunno - I leave my husky-ish coated dog inside with the air conditioning on when it's hot. I don't know how hot it gets, where you are. Maybe this is not an issue.

Edit: Just curious, have you looked into the Akita at all? Don't know if more experienced people will jump in and say they're a bad idea, too... But they seem to fit a lot of your points you listed.

Here's a link from the same site as the previous Newfie info:
http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/akitas.html


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Spitzy said:


> I'm also rather curious about this rooftop area. Honestly, reading about the idea of a husky kept on a roof is making me cringe. Big time. Likely because, about a year ago, I witnessed a neighbor's husky leap off a 2 & 1/2 story balcony. (And it had a bared, tall railing.) The fall was not pretty. At all. After lying frighteningly still for a minute, the dog preceded to get to his feet and run out into the street and get hit by a car. It was absolutely horrible. But really, not surprising considering a husky’s nature. (Escapist, running.) I don’t know what my neighbors were thinking, giving their dog access to the balcony; especially when they weren’t right there to supervise.
> 
> I love huskies. Sometimes, I think that someday I would like to add one to my family. Their propensity to make and take opportunities to escape is one reason why I probably won’t. Sort of in your, OP's, earlier words - they are not prone to being a *dedicated* family dog.
> 
> ...


The weather where i am now is VERY similar to CA weather: Cold in winter, hot but not humid at summer, georgous in spring and fall.
I usually go at dogbreedinfo.com to research about dog breeds. I find it a very legitimate and trusted site for info about almost ALL dog breeds.

And about the roof top, i am posting the pictures in 5 minutes.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Here are the pics of the rooftop. 
As u can see: along with the white painted dog house(to reflect sunlight), there is also shelter from sunlight all over the place, whether it's under the grape plant or under the small mini room.


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## jbray01 (Dec 26, 2007)

unfortunately i cannot offer any breed specific info, but i WOULD NOT recommend leaving a dog alone outside all night. even if the area is "secure". especially in the first few weeks/months of having it..dogs are companion animals, and need to be around their people. honestly if you live with your parents and they are not dog people, i would say wait until you have your own place to get a dog.

bringing a dog into a home where it will be isolated and unwanted by more than 1/3 of the people in the home, it might not be the best enviornment.

just my opinion...


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

jbray01 said:


> unfortunately i cannot offer any breed specific info, but i WOULD NOT recommend leaving a dog alone outside all night. even if the area is "secure". especially in the first few weeks/months of having it..dogs are companion animals, and need to be around their people. honestly if you live with your parents and they are not dog people, i would say wait until you have your own place to get a dog.
> 
> bringing a dog into a home where it will be isolated and unwanted by more than 1/3 of the people in the home, it might not be the best enviornment.
> just my opinion...


I second that!!!


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

It's kind of hard to tell from those dark pictures, but judging by what I can see... it doesn't look like an ideal place to keep a dog, even for just the night. It IS however, not a roof like I would have expected!

I would think a dog needs more shelter than that (and that dog house looks kind of small, considering you keep saying you want large breeds [although I wouldn't call a husky a large breed]). You'd also have to clean it up quite a bit and 'puppy proof' it.
It's hard to tell from the picture, but how high are the walls around? My main concern other than the exposure to the eliments would be if the dog can jump OFF the roof, which is MEGA dangerous!


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

It is difficult to tell the whole layout. Maybe pics taken in daylight would be better. How high are the walls on the roof? Do you plan on keeping him/her tied to the house?


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Dogbreedinfo is a terrible site for info on breeds... Try to contact your local Husky breed club and talk to them, or go to local dog shows and talk to Husky breeders. That's the most reliable source you can get.



> The husky choice was also there, just for the fact that I CAN get it inside the house because it's clean and no doggy smell and introduce it to parents and make it part of the family. His temperament? well...that's why i like a challenge and i'm ready for it! but no one here is believing in me


Please don't get a Husky just because it is clean and doesn't smell. I know this isn't what you want to hear but it doesn't fit what you're looking for in a dog. It doesn't have natural guarding tendencies, it is one of the LEAST trainable breeds out there and it loves being indoors with its people instead of outdoors alone. It is also VERY noisy and sheds a lot. Every Husky owner I know talks about breathing in dog hair on a regular basis.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

DogGoneGood said:


> It's kind of hard to tell from those dark pictures, but judging by what I can see... it doesn't look like an ideal place to keep a dog, even for just the night. It IS however, not a roof like I would have expected!
> 
> I would think a dog needs more shelter than that (and that dog house looks kind of small, considering you keep saying you want large breeds [although I wouldn't call a husky a large breed]). You'd also have to clean it up quite a bit and 'puppy proof' it.
> It's hard to tell from the picture, but how high are the walls around? My main concern other than the exposure to the eliments would be if the dog can jump OFF the roof, which is MEGA dangerous!


Well, i am planning to puppy proof it and clean it of course before i get the puppy. 
The wall is around 4 feet high....
And that dog house was intended for a mid sized breed.
If i go ahead and get a giant, then i'm building a bigger one.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Since the OP seems determined about a husky, here are some potential problems:

If you don't want to deal with... 



Vigorous exercise requirements 
Rowdiness and exuberant jumping, especially when young 
Massive destructiveness and howling when bored, left alone too much, or not exercised enough 
Strong instincts to chase and grab anything that runs 
Escaping from your yard in search of adventure 
Strong-willed mind of his own, requiring a confident owner who can take charge 
Heavy shedding 
A Siberian Husky may not be right for you. Just some things to consider.
Taken from: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/siberianhuskies.html Alaskan huskies are going to be even more prone to running and need even more exercise because they are still primarily working dogs.


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## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

Puppy proofing it would definitally be needed. I'd also be worried about the four foot high wall. I don't think a dog would do a suicide jump, but I had a ferret who plummeted two stories because she crawled out of a hole in the window screen. She was fine, no injuries at all, but don't put it past an animal to take a leap. 

I'd also like to mention that you might want to move the doghouse. It should be at a place where no wind/rain/snow can blow into the opening. I also prefer igloo type houses for the dogs...it keeps out the elements and traps in the heat better, IMO.

And if you do choose to get a Husky, be please forewarned that Huskies can chew through drywall when they are bored...so anything up there that is not cement can and will be destoryed by a bored Husky. 

If it will only be out unsupervised on the rooftop during the night, I would suggest getting a kennel for it. That way you don't have to worry about it taking a tumble.

And as for choosing a breed...just because you feel you can handle a dog (like the Husky) doesn't mean that that dog fits into your HOME. You have to take in your physical surroundings as a part of what breed to adopt. Some dogs NEED to have a yard. Some dogs NEED to have acerage. Some dogs NEED to be in a rural setting. Even if you feel you can handle a certain dog, if your living situations don't suit it, then that dog is not suitable for you at the time. 
For example, using the dogbreedinfo site, it says that a Siberian Husky NEEDS a large fenced in yard with a high fence and buried wire because of the exercise needs and their escape artist tendencies. Can you provide that?

Try taking these two breed selector tests: http://www.k9country.com/perl/dogBreed.pl
http://animal.discovery.com/breedselector/dogselectorindex.do. Be honest with yourself when answering questions and the should help stear you in the right direction.


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

I'd just like to chime in that I KNOW what it's like to want a certain breed of dog. There are many dog breeds that I would love to own and would in a heartbeat, so I can understand the want for a husky or the CO. However, with that being said, I also had to be really honest with myself when my fiance and I were looking for a puppy. The breeds that I really wanted were ones that when it came down to it, didn't fit our lifestyle very well.

Think of it this way--would you rather get a husky now and have it turn out possibly not so great and have it kind of ruin your perception of the breed/your vision of what it should be; or should you just wait until you're in a better position to own a husky and have it turn out the way you want? 

In my opinion, I really don't think a husky will be a good breed for you _at this point in your life_. They are quite noisy and like others have said, shed a TON. They will also do everything they can to escape, including scaling walls. The puppy stages really do carry on through at least two years, usually closer to three. You've been given some really great options in the thread, the Leonberger, Newfoundland, Saint Bernard, and others are all much closer to what you want. 

If you're still set on a husky, I'd urge you to look into breed rescues, since they're fostered you will have a much better idea of what the dog will act like. I know the idea of a puppy is SO appealing, I think everyone can relate to that, but there does come a time when you need to be 100% honest with yourself so that you can be fair to everyone in your neighborhood, yourself, and your new dog. 

Whatever you decide, good luck!


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't think a four foot high wall is tall enough in the least. The odds of a dog actually leaping off the roof like that ARE slim, but do you really wana take the chance? If the dog got fixated on something (say a bird) it would be thinking of nothing else BUT that bird and fly right off the roof after it. Dogs tend to be one track minded, they can't focus on too many things at once and if they have all their energy focused onto something they will completely neglect to scan their surroundings before doing what THEY feel is necessary to fullfill their desires.

Putting a kennel up there is a good idea. If it's a proper and secure kennel, it will keep your dog safe AND the surrounding things on your roof  If you go the kennel route (which I highly suggest) you may want to have a cover on it. This would keep out the elements and prevent the dog from escaping by jumping on it's dog house and over the top (which I've had happen before).

kpollard made a very excellent point. You don't want the dog to ruin your perseption on the breed simply because it's not the right time in your life to properly care for that dog, and therefore causes unwanted behaviors. If you wait to get the breed you desire the most, to a time when you can successfully fill ALL of it's needs PROPERLY the outcome will be MUCH better and you will probably love the breed even more!

Even after everyone's warnings, if you're still 100% dead set on a Husky and there's no way we can change your mind, then DO IT RIGHT. Do NOT get a puppy from working lines. This will only create more problems with the dog needing MORE exercise and training. ANY husky you get will need tons of exercise, training, and a JOB to do every day, but if you get one from working lines it will just be that much more tough on you. Get one from a breeder who breeds show lines (every show breeder has pet quality puppies too), and do your extensive research on that breeder. Look around. Just because you find one close to your area doesn't mean they're of the best quality. Look around until you find a breeder that meets your criteria. I don't know DogForums all that well but I'm SURE there's the whole 'what to ask a breeder" thread on here somewhere that someone else can direct you to. Also, keep in mind that if you don't have the ideal lifestyle for a husky that some breeders won't sell to you at all. The breeder should be asking you just as many, if not more questions as you should be asking them. They'll probably want to do a home check and quite possibly get refrences from you as well.

BEFORE getting a puppy research this breed until your brain pops! Don't just research through the internet and books (although I would suggest books over the internet, and look into the type of sites i suggested to you via PM ), go to sled races if you can, go to dog shows. TALK to Husky owners. Harass as many people as you can that are incessantly into the breed. If they love the breed that much they won't mind talking about it and helping you out!


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

rosemaryninja said:


> Dogbreedinfo is a terrible site for info on breeds... Try to contact your local Husky breed club and talk to them, or go to local dog shows and talk to Husky breeders. That's the most reliable source you can get.
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't get a Husky just because it is clean and doesn't smell. I know this isn't what you want to hear but it doesn't fit what you're looking for in a dog. It doesn't have natural guarding tendencies, it is one of the LEAST trainable breeds out there and it loves being indoors with its people instead of outdoors alone. It is also VERY noisy and sheds a lot. Every Husky owner I know talks about breathing in dog hair on a regular basis.



I decided not to get a husky.... U folks have done a very successful job to steer me away from that choice.
After carefully reviewing all of your replies ( and really, THANK YOU ALL), I decided that a husky is truly not for me and my situation.
I'm getting a CO. My brother is going to help me train it and i made a challenge upon myself to socialize the puppy and shape it to become a guard dog with a GOOD judgement. That's what i really wanted in the first place.

We looked at the male puppy today and i took some pictures.
The puppy is 40 days old. We're going to pick it up after 2 weeks.

So, FINAL DECISION: CO (pictures below).
[/ATTACH]


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

I thought we steered you away from the CO first? 

I feel like you're jumping into this underprepared... you really need to do your homework and prepare for this puppy a LOT more BEFORE bringing it home.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

DogGoneGood said:


> I thought we steered you away from the CO first?



I talked to my parents and took their opinion. I explained extensively to them about both breeds. The idea of a husky really freaked them out, even though they did agree that the dog can spend significant time inside the house during the day....But the shedding? mmmm...trouble trouble trouble...


I'm gonna get the CO and use the "fight fire with water" philosophy with it= socialize it everyday, expose it to new people and new situations EVERYDAY, from the moment it steps into the house.

Also, not only i have been researching both breeds, but ALSO i have been GEEK-studying all dog training tips from my bro and from online resources.


Doggonegood, i'm gonna do it. 
CO it is...


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

qwerty80 said:


> I talked to my parents and took their opinion. I explained extensively to them about both breeds. The idea of a husky really freaked them out, even though they did agree that the dog can spend significant time inside the house during the day....But the shedding? mmmm...trouble trouble trouble...
> 
> 
> I'm gonna get the CO and use the "fight fire with water" philosophy with it= socialize it everyday, expose it to new people and new situations EVERYDAY, from the moment it steps into the house.
> ...




Glad you could make a decision. Im sure alot of us (including me  )are still not happy with it, but it is your decision.

That said, people purchase both apropriate,and inapropriate dogs everyday. If you need any help with your new puppy im sure we will all be glad to help you.


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

to be honest, I feel worse about you getting a CO than a husky, especially because of the things written BY CO owners on the first link that I gave you.

Good luck!

one last piece and then I will leave you alone, I promise.

WHY WOULD YOU NOT RECOMMEND A CAUCASIAN?

CO'S are not a dog for everyone. Why not? *They demand time, attention, frequent training and handling. They are strong, willful and cannot be expected to like everyone. *Without proper training, they can be very aggressive to both people and dogs. *They do bark a lot and have a lot of hair. They require firm, steady and consistent training. *A CO needs to learn manners well enough to be trusted to react as you would want and expect in all situations. If you know you are totally confident in your ability to handle a large, dominant dog even in threatening situations and are able to supply the necessary time, energy, attention and money to raise and keep a dog for its full life, only then should you consider a Caucasian.

I understand that you will have some help from your brother, and that's great; but a CO is not going to be a Rottweiler, Doberman, or anything else. This dog will require training every single day that you own him, and although you can supply that now it's important to evaluate if you will always be able to do that. Again, while this may be a great breed for you, it may NOT be a great breed for you *right now.*


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

Alright, well I figured I'd give it one last feeble attempt to talk you out of it, but since I can't I might as well help you out!

If you need any advice or help on anything, let me, and the rest of the members here at DogForums know and I'm sure we'll do our best!

Also, if you go to that link I sent you via PM and look at the left hand menu you'll see a link to an INDEX, go there and browse through... there's a lot of articles on there that just might help you out.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

DogGoneGood said:


> Alright, well I figured I'd give it one last feeble attempt to talk you out of it, but since I can't I might as well help you out!
> 
> If you need any advice or help on anything, let me, and the rest of the members here at DogForums know and I'm sure we'll do our best!
> 
> Also, if you go to that link I sent you via PM and look at the left hand menu you'll see a link to an INDEX, go there and browse through... there's a lot of articles on there that just might help you out.



I will  and will definatly keep in touch, post more pics, threads and keep u updated on how the CO choice is blossoming up to be, as soon as i spend the first week or two with the puppy.
And really, THANK YOU ALL.
i mean, i don't know what else to say or type to show you all how thankful i am for your help.
ALL is appreciated ))



kpollard said:


> to be honest, I feel worse about you getting a CO than a husky, especially because of the things written BY CO owners on the first link that I gave you.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> ...


I understand. And thank you for your points.
I've made my decision.
Actually, just for the simple fact that all of you have taken significant time out of your days/nights to write all of those suggestions for me, I AM NOT GONNA LET YOU DOWN ....
That CO pup will grow up to be a calm, obedient, wise and fair GUARD dog.
YOU HAVE MY WORD.
Thanks again.


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## squirmyworm (Jan 7, 2008)

Well, this thread seems to be winding down a bit, but I've been it following with interest...might as well get some final thoughts in 

Qwerty, I have to give you my compliments (and thanks) for posting on this forum for advice and making a genuine effort to listen to the knowledgeable dog folks here. _So_ many people do just the opposite. Honestly, I'm disappointed that you ended up choosing a CO, but since it seems that you've made your final decision, I hope you continue to stop here for answers to your questions and advice on raising your new pup. The combined experience of the members that have posted just on _this_ thread is probably around 300 years. Good resource!

Speaking of advice, here are my words. About three months ago, I rescued a (now confirmed) Akita/GSD mix from the shelter. She was not well socialized as a pup, not trained at all. Now, because of her poor upbringing, she is untrusting of nearly every stranger. She used to growl and lunge at nearly every person she walked with on walks. She was thus returned to the shelter _three_ times before I picked her up. I have no doubt in my mind that she would have been euthanized if I had not adopted her. 

So here is my plea: please please PLEASE socialize your puppy extensively. I know, I know...you've already said you will, but I feel that this advice bears repeating. After three months of careful training, I've been able to decrease Mesquite's fear aggression by a little bit. However, I still don't let her meet people unless I have 100% control over the situation. I love her too much to risk her biting someone and having to be put down. I don't want your dog to end up like Mesquite, who was too much dog for someone to handle, and I don't want you to end up with the same worries that I have.

So expose your pup to _everything_. Big people. Small people. Kids of all ages. All kinds of animals: ferrets, cats, horses, sheep, etc.. All kinds of situations: fairs, parades, church gatherings, the bus station, the train station, the lake...everything! Don't pass up any opportunity for socialization. Hopefully you'll end up with a good pup. 

I hope I didn't come off as if I was lecturing you. I wish you the best of luck.


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## Taz Monkey (Sep 2, 2007)

good lord I feel bad for this poor dog. If it jumps off the roof it's probably committing suicide.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

squirmyworm said:


> The combined experience of the members that have posted just on _this_ thread is probably around 300 years. Good resource!
> 
> 
> So expose your pup to _everything_. Big people. Small people. Kids of all ages. All kinds of animals: ferrets, cats, horses, sheep, etc.. All kinds of situations: fairs, parades, church gatherings, the bus station, the train station, the lake...everything! Don't pass up any opportunity for socialization. Hopefully you'll end up with a good pup.


I have no doubt about that (300 years combined experience) !
I am defiantly posting more threads here about the new pup as he grows along.
And regarding introducing the pup to ferrets, sheeps, well...i don't know about that lol...
Dogs, kids, cats, horses, parades, gatherings and much more is all going to be on the list though 

Here's a site about CO that i found very intersting...and i've been reading a very interesting thread there about TRAINING a young CO.
Just follow that link: http://www.ovcharka.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
Then click on TRAINING, then click on TRAINING A BABY CO/CAO .

Very interesting thread.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

It's good to read that you're doing all the research you can; specifically on training by the breed.

I didn't read that whole article, because... well it's really long and it's 12:19am here and my eyes are about to pop out of my head!

However I did read the part about how the guy writing it uses treats, clickers and gentle leaders/haltis. I'm personally not a big fan of all of these things, especially on a head strong breed, HOWEVER, because you are getting a young pup and training from the start that's not a huge concern of mine. Puppy's need a lot more gentle and almost playful training. It's important to make it fun and interesting (as is for any dog, but puppies especially). My main advice is learn how to phase out treats properly. If you take your pup to obedience classes (which I highly suggest, even if your bro is helping you train the dog group classes will help socialize the pup as well), you'll find a lot of instructors (in fact MOST) who use treats don't actually teach their students how to phase treats out; at least not in a novice class. The problem with that is no everyone goes back for an advanced class and they're stuck not knowing how to phase treats out and end up with a treat dependent dog.

Just my two cents, I'll let this subject lay for now


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

I really wish you had not chosen a CO primarily because they still primarily come from working stock and are not meant to be family pets. If you have not gotten your puppy yet, is there any way you' d consider a Great Pyrenees or even a Kuvasz from show, not working lines? If not, then best of luck with your CO.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

DogGoneGood said:


> It's good to read that you're doing all the research you can; specifically on training by the breed.
> 
> I didn't read that whole article, because... well it's really long and it's 12:19am here and my eyes are about to pop out of my head!
> 
> ...


mmm i see... So u don't recommend the treat idea while socializing?
I just tought that the guy who's writing the thread has a hands-on experience with a CO.
What do u think?

And by the way, i read your articles about training in the link you gave me.
I am impressed! 
It's already saved it in my first 3 bookmarks


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

No no, I'm not suggesting that. What I'm saying is train with treats all you want, just learn how to phase them out properly when the time is needed. Also, socialize the pup a lot, and take him to obedience classes.

That's basically what I meant... I tend to ramble sometimes.

Oh, and thank you  That's why they're there, to help educate people.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

One thing I have to say is thank you for not blowing up at anyone on here, it seems to happen a lot and people get put down and names are called and the thread gets closed down...At least you are mature enough to take negative and positive advice.

All I can tell you is too raise your dog like a dog, socialize him and play with him, and on walks, since he is such a working dog, maybe make him carry a doggy back back with waters or some food in it, give him jobs to do. 

Build a little higher fence, or make sure their is nothing for him to climb on so he can get over the fence easier.

Make sure he gets to meet plenty of other dogs and people, he should be meeting a new person everyday, so tell your friends, tell your friends who have dogs, look around the community for dog get togethers, doggy day care, everything.

Talk to a groomer about what kind of grooming you will have to do on him, brushing, stripping, etc...

And good luck!


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Pepper said:


> One thing I have to say is thank you for not blowing up at anyone on here, it seems to happen a lot and people get put down and names are called and the thread gets closed down...At least you are mature enough to take negative and positive advice.
> 
> All I can tell you is too raise your dog like a dog, socialize him and play with him, and on walks, since he is such a working dog, maybe make him carry a doggy back back with waters or some food in it, give him jobs to do.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I'll take your advice in consideration.


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## squirmyworm (Jan 7, 2008)

qwerty80 said:


> And regarding introducing the pup to ferrets, sheeps, well...i don't know about that lol...
> Dogs, kids, cats, horses, parades, gatherings and much more is all going to be on the list though


I can understand how the suggestion seems a bit weird...but if you think about it, your dog will end up living for over a decade. It's hard to predict everything it will encounter in that decade, but if you expose it to as wide of a variety of experiences as a puppy, it will be much easier later (as you know).

So maybe not specifically "ferrets" and "sheep," but I would definitely make a point of socializing your puppy to many types of small and large animals. If I could have had Mesquite when she was a puppy, I would actively seek out situations where I could do that. I'd probably make a few trips to Petco to work with the ferrets and rabbits (intensely supervised, of course), and see if I could visit an acquaintance's farm. Maybe I'd be going a bit overboard, but I'd rather put in a ridiculous amount of work into socialization so I wouldn't have to potentially deal with problems later, especially when I couldn't predict what my pup would have problems with 10 years down the road. 

Anyway, I think you've got a good idea of what your plan is. Good luck!

EDIT: I thought of one suggestion for socialization. When Rocky (my SO's Norwegian Elkhound) was about 12 weeks, we took him to a nursing home to cheer up the residents _and_ socialize Rocky. He ended up meeting around 80 people in just one day, and it also got him used to weird things like wheelchairs. I definitely recommend doing that if you can.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

There is some good information about puppy socialisation here:
http://diamondsintheruff.com/earlysocialization.html


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Pepper said:


> Build a little higher fence, or make sure their is nothing for him to climb on so he can get over the fence easier.


The fence itself may be the danger!
http://www.youtube.com/v/QvkCtnmBWoo&hl=en&fs=1

I'm mostly kidding though, a CO would be far too large to do that. He'd just push the fence over if there were something he wanted bad enough on the other side.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

squirmyworm said:


> I can understand how the suggestion seems a bit weird...but if you think about it, your dog will end up living for over a decade. It's hard to predict everything it will encounter in that decade, but if you expose it to as wide of a variety of experiences as a puppy, it will be much easier later (as you know).
> 
> So maybe not specifically "ferrets" and "sheep," but I would definitely make a point of socializing your puppy to many types of small and large animals. If I could have had Mesquite when she was a puppy, I would actively seek out situations where I could do that. I'd probably make a few trips to Petco to work with the ferrets and rabbits (intensely supervised, of course), and see if I could visit an acquaintance's farm. Maybe I'd be going a bit overboard, but I'd rather put in a ridiculous amount of work into socialization so I wouldn't have to potentially deal with problems later, especially when I couldn't predict what my pup would have problems with 10 years down the road.
> 
> ...


I totally understand. And yes, the nursing home is a another great idea out of so many i have already planned 
Thank you.
Please keep an eye for my screenname here as i will DEFINATLY post more threads about my CO pup as he grows along.
Regards.



rosemaryninja said:


> There is some good information about puppy socialisation here:
> http://diamondsintheruff.com/earlysocialization.html


Melissa, that link does not seem to work(open)...


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

That's strange, it works fine for me.

Try going here:
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/

and click "Behaviour FAQs" on the left sidebar. There are a whole bunch of useful training articles there, but the one I was referring to is "Early Puppy Socialisation."


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## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

skelaki said:


> I really wish you had not chosen a CO primarily because they still primarily come from working stock and are not meant to be family pets. If you have not gotten your puppy yet, is there any way you' d consider a Great Pyrenees or even a Kuvasz from show, not working lines? If not, then best of luck with your CO.


 I absolutely agree. Honestly, it is sad to see owners who thought they have done enough research on the breed and declared it is the right dog for their family. Actually, they are totally unprepared to live with one. When you live with one it is nothing same as reading many books on them. 

I don't hate CO, but none of decoys want to work with them. CO and OC can be very ferocious and aggressive. More likely you have to lock them up every time you have a visitor over. It doesn't matter how often you socialize your dog to other people. It always will be questionable.

If it was out on loose by accident and attack someone, then the media is going to be on you! The temperament of CO and OC are very sharp and very defensive which many general pet owners* CAN NOT* handle. I considered myself an expereinced trainer who train a malinois in french ring and mondio ring. I will not dare to own those russian breeds. NO WAY! Only if I live on a land far from the city with livestock, then sure I wouldn't mind. 

Many times OC has to be sequestered from visitors then the owners will complain how hard it was to keep them separated all the time. Then they are going to look for a quick fix. Even I have seen owners gave them up because they couldn't handle one. It became too much of work and especially hard if they are bringing in a newborn baby home. It will be very hard for the OC accepting a new baby and re home or put it down are probably the only option.

They were bred to protect livestock not a regular house pet. They are very independent thinkers which make them very hard to train not quite trainable like GSD, malinois, and other breeds. It is like teaching a wolf to sit, but it takes many months for him to learn the command sit. They are so independent. 

It appears like getting a OC puppy is going to be a disaster. I know that none reputable OC breeders will ever sell their dogs to average pet owners. None! It sounds like you get it from BYB.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

French Ring said:


> I absolutely agree. Honestly, it is sad to see owners who thought they have done enough research on the breed and declared it is the right dog for their family. Actually, they are totally unprepared to live with one. When you live with one it is nothing same as reading many books on them.
> 
> I don't hate CO, but none of decoys want to work with them. CO and OC can be very ferocious and aggressive. More likely you have to lock them up every time you have a visitor over. It doesn't matter how often you socialize your dog to other people. It always will be questionable.
> 
> ...



The breeder DID NOT recommend me getting one. It was my decision, and he really did not wanna turn me down because he is an old friend of my brother. I know it's not typical thinking from a breeder who cares about his breed, right? well...of course not. Actually, the breeder is still till this moment, every time he talks on the phone with my bro, he tries to get him to convince me not to buy the dog! So i'll take the blame on that, not the breeder, i do.

I understand it's agressive. I understand u can't take away instinct of a dog. I understand it's extremely hard to train. I understand it's not for everyone. I understand and i know pretty much all of things you kindly mentioned.

BUT, i really believe that if u get ANY breed as a puppy and socialize extensively, which i am planning to do (i hope u did read my previous posts), u will end up with an obedient family PET. Yes, i said PET!
I mean it's a dog after all! D.O.G =dog !

If the dog is that dangerous and impossible to become a "pet", then why it hasn't been banned ????


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## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

> I know it's not typical thinking from a breeder who cares about his breed, right?


 Actually, that breeder is very smart. Breeders who truely care about their breed try to talk you OUT of owning their breed before they talk you IN to it. And if the breeder doesn't think you should own one....why don't you take his advice? He lives with these dogs, he knows their temperment, he knows what is required to live with them...and obviously he doesn't think you have what it takes. He knows you better than we do and he still thinks it is a bad idea. That should tell you something.



> I understand it's agressive. I understand u can't take away instinct of a dog. I understand it's extremely hard to train. I understand it's not for everyone. I understand and i know pretty much all of things you kindly mentioned.


 Understanding and dealing with it are two different things. I understand that my friend's Pit Bull can scale six foot fences with ease and can open up doors to escape....but I wouldn't want to deal with it. I understand that a dog is fear aggressive and tries to bite my head off everytime I go near it...but I don't want to deal with it. I understand my dog Chloe needs a ton of exercise and mental stimulation and at times I don't want to deal with that either!
You might have memorized the New York Giant's playbook, but that doesn't mean you can run the plays. 



> BUT, i really believe that if u get ANY breed as a puppy and socialize extensively, which i am planning to do (i hope u did read my previous posts), u will end up with an obedient family PET. Yes, i said PET!
> I mean it's a dog after all! D.O.G =dog !


 No, that is not the case. Genetics play a LARGE role in how a dog will turn out. Just because you socialize a dog extensively does NOT mean that the dog will be a PET! Especially in a breed that is not a PET. A CO is a WORKING DOG, not a pet. It is a livestock guardian. Not a pet. How much training and socailizing is done with the dog doesn't matter, it will never be just a pet. That is the breed. 

And yes, it is a dog. Let's think what a dog is (in the CO's case). A dog is a large, imposing animal that has kitchen knives for teeth that can shatter bone and claws on their feet that can tear flesh. A dog is a 100+ pound creature that can easily kill other animals and can seriously injure/maim/kill people. A dog is an animal that was bred for a certain purpose and it will fufill that purpose no matter how much training and socializing it gets. (Like JRTs that dig, Border Collies that herd, Labs that swim....owners find ways to provide outlets for that inherent behavior, it never goes away). Dogs aren't Lassies. Dogs are capable of doing great harm and I think if people realized that their would be a lot less dog attack victims in the world. BTW, I love dogs in general and I love my dogs. I couldn't imagine life without them. But after being on the receiving end of so many aggressive dogs that come in through work, I have a very healthy respect for them.



> If the dog is that dangerous, why it hasn't been banned then????


 Most likely because they aren't a popular breed and not many people know about them. This leaves the tendency for idiots to own them relatively low, unlike in very popular breeds such as Pitties, Dobes, Dalmations, Chows, Pyrs, etc.

Some quick points:


> Watch-dog: Very High. The Caucasian Mountain Dog has a keen sense of hearing and is quick to alert to strange sounds. *This means that the breed is often noisy and barks a lot, especially at night*.





> The best owner for this breed would be a *dog-experienced person, especially experienced in guardian dogs, living in a rural home where the dog is given a job to do*.





> *Successful owners view the Caucasian as a working companion not a "pet" in the typical sense*.


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

it sounds like at this point you want the puppy to prove to everyone that you can do it. I can understand that mentality but I beg you to not turn a dog into a social experiment! This will absolutely end up in either someone getting hurt and the dog being PTS, or you getting yourself hurt because you do not have the proper environment. There are a number of things that can go wrong here, you claim to know them yet you are willingly putting yourself and others around you in danger.

You are obviously an intelligent person, please be smart enough to stop being stubborn and realize that this is NOT THE TIME, nor do you have the environment, for a CO!

A breeder trying to talk you out of getting a puppy should be evidence enough.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

kpollard said:


> it sounds like at this point you want the puppy to prove to everyone that you can do it. I can understand that mentality but I beg you to not turn a dog into a social experiment! This will absolutely end up in either someone getting hurt and the dog being PTS, or you getting yourself hurt because you do not have the proper environment. There are a number of things that can go wrong here, you claim to know them yet you are willingly putting yourself and others around you in danger.
> 
> You are obviously an intelligent person, please be smart enough to stop being stubborn and realize that this is NOT THE TIME, nor do you have the environment, for a CO!
> 
> A breeder trying to talk you out of getting a puppy should be evidence enough.


sigh....



blackrose said:


> No, that is not the case. Genetics play a LARGE role in how a dog will turn out. Just because you socialize a dog extensively does NOT mean that the dog will be a PET! Especially in a breed that is not a PET. A CO is a WORKING DOG, not a pet. It is a livestock guardian. Not a pet. How much training and socailizing is done with the dog doesn't matter, it will never be just a pet. That is the breed.


I totally disagree with you.

I urge to go on this link and read what Stacy Kubyn has to say about how the national geographic show about COs has destroyed its reputation. I really can not imagine a better answer to you than this:

http://esquirecaucasians.com/simpnews/news.php?lang=en&layout=esq&sortorder=0&category=0&category=7

Stacy is one of- if not THE FIRST- CO breeders in the US.
And i also believe she has a book on COs.

PLEASE READ HER ENTIRE STATEMENT IN THE LINK ABOVE, ESPECIALLY WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY IN HER ENDING WORDS(bottom of page).


And my breeder doesn't PREFER me to have the CO just because:
1-he doesn't think i will be able to handle his size
2- he's 95% positive it will bark at night and cause me problems with neighbors.

Nothing more, nothing less.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

I'm sorry Qwerty, but blackrose is right about some dogs not doing so well as pets. Even pet dogs are STILL dogs! ANY dog is capable of being dangerous (even chihuahuas ). I've had enough bites to know to respect every dog as the animal it is.

No matter how domesticated and properly socialized a dog is, it still has animal instincts, and it will still defend itself if it feels the need. This is an even higher risk in dogs that aren't actually bred to be pets! There is a HUGE difference between a working dog and a pet dog. Some breeds were bred to be just pets and others were only bred to work. These working breeds have higher instincts and, due to a combination of their size, genetic traits, and instincts they can be very dangerous!

The only reason why some working breeds aren't banned and others are is due to popularity and the media. If enough people owned CO's (especially idiots) I can garantee they'd be going through the same hype as the American Pit Bull Terrier is right now.

That being said, just because a working breed has these strong instincts and can be dangerous doesn't mean they can't be loyal and loving like any other dog. Of course they can, because they're DOGS! Dogs are pack animals and they crave that affection. They only reason they crave it from us is because we've taught them too. BUT, just because a dog is loving and loyal to it's owner does NOT mean it will react the same way to people outside of it's family (pack). Which is what makes these dogs dangerous. Also, any dog with a high drive that isn't worked as hard as it needs to be will become bored and destructive, which can make them out of control. Which is why working breeds are so much more work than non working breeds.

Even my friendly, goober of a Lab + can be dangerous. I know for a FACT he can because he's bitten me once and everyone who comes to our house is scared of him because he is such a good guard dog. And he's not even from working lines of a guard dog breed!

I'm telling you this not to jump on the bandwagon and tell you not to get the dog (although I still do think you shouldn't!), I'm telling you this because one of the worst things you can do when owning a working dog or any dog that has the amount of power and instinct as a CO, is not understand and respect them fully like you should. If you're in denial of what the dog is capable of you will only end up with a problem on your hands.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)




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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I highly recommend you go with the breeder on this one... Please don't presume you know more about the breed than a breeder who, I can tell you, lives and breathes the breed (assuming he is worth his salt). He knows the dog best and he knows what your lifestyle is like, so honestly, he's in a VERY good position to give you good advice.

Is there a reason you are refusing to consider any other breed that we have recommended to you?


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

Did you read through the application that Stacy has on her website for the CO?

http://www.esquirecaucasians.com/ovcharkaapplication.html

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a huge pest, I'm just really trying to bring absolutely everything to the forefront before you get your puppy. I'm concerned for both you and him and just want everything to be 100% thought out--I know you say it is but it's still worth looking at that application and really, truly asking yourself if this is the breed/time.

I'm sorry, I know you must hate me at this point but as a dog/person lover I just want what will be best for both.

She also recommends this site--perhaps you should go onto their forum and ask your questions? It is CO owners so they will be even more able to answer your questions/address any issues.

http://www.caucasiandogs.com/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=1


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> And my breeder doesn't PREFER me to have the CO just because:
> 1-he doesn't think i will be able to handle his size
> 2- he's 95% positive it will bark at night and cause me problems with neighbors.
> 
> Nothing more, nothing less.


And why don't you think these are issues worth considering?


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## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

I sent Stacy an email to ask her comment about this post. Hopefully she is going to come in if not and made her own post. If she isn't, I will copy-post what she said about my email. If you considered her the "expert" on the breed and lets see what she has to say about you owning a CO.


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

Wow, after watching that youtube vid i can't imagine who would want the *immense liability* of a dog like that....just wow..


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

rosemaryninja said:


> Is there a reason you are refusing to consider any other breed that we have recommended to you?


Well, the only recommendation that seemed suitable for me was the AKITA. But i looked and i could not find any breeders in the country am in right now.

The other recommendations ( newfoundland etc...) do drool...
And i'm trying to stay away from that.

Akita was the perfect choice, in looks and temperament.
But i can't get my hands on one....



curbside prophet said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyxrgv-kbc


this is the video that stacy is complaining about!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> Well, the only recommendation that seemed suitable for me was the AKITA. But i looked and i could not find any breeders in the country am in right now.
> 
> The other recommendations ( newfoundland etc...) do drool...
> And i'm trying to stay away from that.
> ...


Where do you stay? If you are having trouble finding a breed, there are many people here who can try to help you out. 



> this is the video that stacy is complaining about!


I believe Curbside Prophet posted it here for reference.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

rosemaryninja said:


> Where do you stay? If you are having trouble finding a breed, there are many people here who can try to help you out.



I am 500,000 miles from US. 
I doubt anyone can help


And about the AKITA, well, i made some phone calls...And the dog CAN be gotten, but from overseas and it's gonna cost me a lot to ship it here.
The price was OUT of my range.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> I am 500,000 miles from US.
> I doubt anyone can help


Try us. We have several overseas members. We don't want your address so we can come dognap your choice, just a country and someone might be able to help you. The internet is a wonderful thing.

Also, that's a bold faced lie. The circumference of the earth is only 24,901.55 miles. So the furthest away you can possibly be is 12,450.775 miles.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> I am 500,000 miles from US.
> I doubt anyone can help


I don't see how it's possible for you to be 500,000 miles away from the US and still be on the same planet. But I live 10,000 miles away from the US, which is pretty darn close to the farthest you can get.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

rosemaryninja said:


> I don't see how it's possible for you to be 500,000 miles away from the US and still be on the same planet. But I live 10,000 miles away from the US, which is pretty darn close to the farthest you can get.


In fact, the moon is only 238857 miles away from the Earth, so he's pretty far out there. I think we can all agree on that.


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## jbray01 (Dec 26, 2007)

so you don't want a newfoundland because they drool, but you want to get a dog that is going to bark all night, and you have been TOLD by a reputable breeder that your situation isn't right for this type of dog?

I am confused.

it _must_ be hard to find akita breeders on jupiter...haha

(i'm assuming that was just a typo)


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> Try us. We have several overseas members. We don't want your address so we can come dognap your choice, just a country and someone might be able to help you. The internet is a wonderful thing.
> 
> Also, that's a bold faced lie. The circumference of the earth is only 24,901.55 miles. So the furthest away you can possibly be is 12,450.775 miles.



I was just being sarcastic. It was just a "number" to show that i am pretty darn far. I am in Lebanon. And actually, it is pretty far, but of course not 500,000 miles .

ANYWAY, i'm still deciding on the CO. And actually, i was just talking with by brother's vet on the phone and i asked him about his opinion on the CO choice.
He said that: If i decided to get it, then he would highly recommend buying it before it reaches 8 weeks old, and use those -pre 8 weeks old days- to socialize the puppy, ESPECIALLY with children. He said he would rather have me sacrifice the bite ignition learning ( staying with its mom till 8 weeks) then getting a 2 month old unsocialized CO puppy. 

I think i'm gonna listen to his recommendation and get the puppy next week or even before...

The puppy is 42 days old now. I saw it and played with it and it is extremly calm and it DID NOT SHOW ANY SIGNS OF DOMINANCE OR AGRESSION. I did not do the entire aptitude test with it yet, but I WILL before i pay the breeder the money.

So again, FINAL DECISION: CO


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## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

I got an email from Stacy. Here is what she said.

Dear Lindsay,

I glanced through the forum posts. Relevant points to successful 
ownership are owner commitment to formal obedience training and 
socialization, adequate containment (yard, proper fencing, leashing), 
and exercise. Whether a person is a first time dog owner or not may be 
a factor but I've found it may not be very determinative because 
inexperienced people with common sense will likely seek out the 
necessary training resources and follow breeder advice, whereas 
sometimes people with big dog experience will train at home, not attend 
classes, and may be over confident and lax.

Important to note that most CO in the US (about 1000) in fact live 
successfully in suburbs providing home security to families. This is a 
working breed with working attitude, but they make excellent companions 
nonetheless. The CO belongs to the great family of flockguardian dogs 
including the Komondor, Anatolian Shepherd and Tibetan Mastiff. I 
recommend anyone interested in understanding Caucasians research their 
cousin breeds as well, and be skeptical of the rampant internet hype 
about the breed.

I don't know enough specifics about the inquiry, but generally speaking 
do not recommend the breed for apartments or duplexes because too close 
neighbors presents an uncontrollable environment, there is insufficient 
yard space, and barking may very well become an issue.

You may post my reply to forum.

Thanks and best regards,

Stacey Kubyn
Esquire Caucasians
U.S. Breed Founder Est. 1990
Author of "Caucasian Mountain Dog" available at amazon.com
http://www.esquirecaucasians.com
440-286-2374


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:29 pm
Subject: Hi about Caucasian Ovcharka


Dear Stacy,

I am requesting you to take your time and read all posts about 
Caucasian Ovcharka on dog forum. Here 
http://www.dogforums.com/19-first-time-dog-owner/33885-should-i-get-caucasian-5.
html

Many people and include me don't agree with Qwerty80 that she is 
capable of dealing a CO as a first time dog owner and we all tried to talk 
her out of it. She made up her mind to own one now. Also, she implies 
that you are the one who know everything about it and she makes it 
sound like you will agree with her. I am asking you to do a favor and 
post.

Thanks Lindsay (French Ring)


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

French Ring said:


> I got an email from Stacy. Here is what she said.


Lindsay, i really appreciate all the effort. Thank you!
Very informative email from Stacy indeed!
As i read in her email, i might be eligible...except some points regarding the barking and neighbors which i am willing to deal with....

As u read in my previous post, i have decided to get the puppy, after i talked with out vet.

And by the way, i am a HE, not a SHE

Thank you for all the efforts and for contacting Stacy.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

This is a classic example of someone reading only what they want to read... Did you not see the part where she said she wouldn't recommend the dog to someone living in an apartment or in the suburbs?


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## kpollard (Aug 3, 2008)

The part that I don't understand is why someone who doesn't live in the US wants the advice of the foremost breeder in the US (who has been doing it for 18 years, still impressive) and not someone who has been doing it for 30+ that lives overseas.

Anyhow, qwerty, you're not going to listen to logic and reason--you're convinced you can make this puppy work out no matter how many people tell you otherwise.

And, I know what your vet is saying...but I would NOT want to sacrifice bite inhibition on a dog that is eventually going to weigh over 100 pounds.

Please make sure you make your fence taller since both Stacy and other breeders recommend AT LEAST a 6' fence.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

rosemaryninja said:


> This is a classic example of someone reading only what they want to read... Did you not see the part where she said she wouldn't recommend the dog to someone living in an apartment or in the suburbs?


Yes, i read it.
The thing is that where i live, it's not classic suburbia as we all define it in the US.
It's really hard to explain !
It's a combination of country/suburbia with a lot of socialization opportunities for the puppy!

Actually, the socialization opportunities may be too overwhelming for the puppy in my case, which is GOOD!
Example: i could be sitting with the puppy on our front porch for only 10 minutes, and i guarantee you that more than 10 cars, 3 or 4 kids on bicycles, 20 people (friends, neighbors) will pass by and say HI.
It's that kind of town. ONE Big HAPPY FAMILY!

Also, i believe that my brother's vet in the most eligible person to judge, since he has been to our house, he knows me and what kind of dog i can handle, and he is a regular vet for 4 CO owners.

I made my decision.

NO OFFENSE TO ALL OF YOU, AND WITH ALL MY TREMENDOUS RESPECT, APPRECIATION FOR ALL YOUR EFFORT, REPLIES AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, YOUR TIME... THANK YOU!

I made my decision : CO


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

Do NOT get the puppy before 8 weeks old!! I have no idea why your vet would think that's a good idea or would be bennificial in any way.

Taking the pup before 8 weeks old is such a bad idea. He's going to lose socialization skills he'll learn to apply to other dogs, he's going to lose that bite inhibition which is a BAD BAD BAD idea!! The only time I would say it's okay to take a pup before 8 weeks would be if you take it at 7 weeks... 7 weeks is still a difference to the puppy, but at 7 weeks is when the Human Socialization Period happens so if you're really worried about the pup and socialization that is the earliest I'd recomend. Any earlier is just a problem waiting to happen.

(oh, and even taking the dog at 7 weeks, you've still got another 4 left of the Human Socialization Period... so it's not like waiting until 8 weeks you're going to miss the gap )


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

DogGoneGood said:


> Do NOT get the puppy before 8 weeks old!! I have no idea why your vet would think that's a good idea or would be bennificial in any way.
> 
> Taking the pup before 8 weeks old is such a bad idea. He's going to lose socialization skills he'll learn to apply to other dogs, he's going to lose that bite inhibition which is a BAD BAD BAD idea!! The only time I would say it's okay to take a pup before 8 weeks would be if you take it at 7 weeks... 7 weeks is still a difference to the puppy, but at 7 weeks is when the Human Socialization Period happens so if you're really worried about the pup and socialization that is the earliest I'd recomend. Any earlier is just a problem waiting to happen.
> 
> (oh, and even taking the dog at 7 weeks, you've still got another 4 left of the Human Socialization Period... so it's not like waiting until 8 weeks you're going to miss the gap )


True. The vet actually said 7 weeks. Not a must, but he prefers it for a CO.

I'll do as u recommend 


Rob


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> True. The vet actually said 7 weeks. Not a must, but he prefers it for a CO.
> 
> I'll do as u recommend
> 
> ...


If the CO were going to be a livestock guardian, I could understand trying to get him a bit early, as bite inhibition may actually be counterproductive, but you REALLY don't want to deal with a mouthy dog whose breed is known to be aggressive. That can get you in trouble really fast. Please do wait the 8 weeks, and if you wait til 9 even, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt!

The only situation I would take a pup earlier than 8 is if ALL the other puppies were already gone. The amount of learning he would be doing at that point is very small anyway, and would probably be better spent with you.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> If the CO were going to be a livestock guardian, I could understand trying to get him a bit early, as bite inhibition may actually be counterproductive, but you REALLY don't want to deal with a mouthy dog whose breed is known to be aggressive. That can get you in trouble really fast. Please do wait the 8 weeks, and if you wait til 9 even, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt!
> 
> The only situation I would take a pup earlier than 8 is if ALL the other puppies were already gone. The amount of learning he would be doing at that point is very small anyway, and would probably be better spent with you.


The puppy is the only one left from the litter. 
However, when the pup is not eating(with his mom), the breeder leaves it with 4 lab pups and 2 GSD pups .
The pups are all for the breeder, as both his lab and GSD had litters almost 2 months ago. So the other pups are slightly older than him.


So? when should i get it?


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> The puppy is the only one left from the litter.
> However, when the pup is not eating(with his mom), the breeder leaves it with 4 lab pups and 2 GSD pups .
> The pups are all for the breeder, as both his lab and GSD had litters almost 2 months ago. So the other pups are slightly older than him.
> 
> ...


Complicated situation. I'd say wait at least another week. If I remember correctly you said he was 42 days, or 6 weeks old. That's too young no matter what the situation is. Maybe some other members can chime in, but I'd definitely say wait til he's absolute minimum of 7, and with the other pups around you may be able to just wait til 8.


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## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

I'm just now getting to this thread, so I know that I am late. However, I have scanned thru all the pages, and wanted to throw in my few cents.

First, do you plan to be living with your parents another 10-12 years? If not, do you know for a fact, without a doubt, that your first home will be a house with a big yard? Because otherwise, I don't see a CO being a good choice. In fact, I see it as a bad mistake. A dog like that is not made to be an inside lap dog, nor is it made to sleep on a roof.

Secondly, 4 foot walls are nothing. Try 8 foot, minimum. My 22 pound beagle can get over a 4 foot wall with little effort. And my 37 pound pit bull foster dog can scale a 6 foot wooden fence *without his feet ever touching the fence!* So 4 foot is nothing, and 6 foot may not be any better. And to be on a roof? That is insane. 

Also, if your parents aren't keen on getting a dog, why get one that will reach over 100 pounds, bark like hell and shed like no tomorrow? A dog like that belongs on a farm, with LOTS of room to roam and run.

Now, I live with my parents, on top of working and going to school and doing rescue work, however my time is managed with all my crew. We live on plenty land, with plenty more room for all the animals. Both of my parents support my rescue work, and love the dogs that we have, and don't mind any others that come along. However, in one of your posts, you said it would be better to introduce a puppy to your parents, than a full grown dog. It sounds as though you need to convince them about the dog. If you have to convince them with a puppy just to own a dog, I advise you waiting to get a dog.

What if, with all the training and time spent in the world, this dog is still a nightmare? Barks constantly, tears up the property, and the neighbors are complaining constantly, will you put up with that for 10-12 years? Will your parents? Or will you eventually just get rid of the dog?

These are things to consider, especially when getting the breed you've chosen. I feel it's going into the wrong environment with the wrong type of housing, and will be spending its nights in a dangerous area (a roof is no place for a dog, I don't care how fancy it is). And unless you plan to box in those walls with 8 foot high fencing, it's a disaster waiting to happen and the only victim will be that dog when it falls to its death. When it goes to jump that fence, it has no idea that there is no ground on the other side.

Good luck.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Wait, this breeder has three litters the same age? 

so basically, you're buying a puppy mill dog on top of everything else?


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

dogstar said:


> wait, this breeder has three litters the same age?
> 
> So basically, you're buying a puppy mill dog on top of everything else?


Jesus Christ! Did u read my post? They are his own. He doesnt sell them! He's keeping them around the CO puppy for socialization because the CO is the only one left from his litter, and because i asked him to!

Listen, with all respect, i made my decision.
Talking me out of the CO is not gonna help me.
This thread has already 108 replies and they all tried to do the same thing.
So kindly, if you like to answer my last question in the previous post(when do i get the CO ?), then please do.
If not, then please don't.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

What kind of breeder would counsel you against their breed of dog yet still sell the dog to you?


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

Rowdy said:


> What kind of breeder would counsel you against their breed of dog yet still sell the dog to you?


Jesus Christ again! 
Please i beg you to read my previous posts!
This thread is pretty darn long.
To kindly come here and reply without reading the entire thread(108 replies) is really not fair!
So please go back and read and you'll get your answer.
I mean, i can just ignore all similar posts from now on and not answer! But i am not gonna do that, because i am a nice person.
So i beg you to read alllll my posts.
Thank you.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

You may be nice, but you're certainly not very smart.


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## funzo333 (Aug 11, 2008)

MyRescueCrew said:


> First, do you plan to be living with your parents another 10-12 years? If not, do you know for a fact, without a doubt, that your first home will be a house with a big yard? Because otherwise, I don't see a CO being a good choice. In fact, I see it as a bad mistake. A dog like that is not made to be an inside lap dog, nor is it made to sleep on a roof.
> 
> Secondly, 4 foot walls are nothing. Try 8 foot, minimum. My 22 pound beagle can get over a 4 foot wall with little effort. And my 37 pound pit bull foster dog can scale a 6 foot wooden fence *without his feet ever touching the fence!* So 4 foot is nothing, and 6 foot may not be any better. And to be on a roof? That is insane.



These are the 2 issues that stuck out most to me as well. I think this is a great thread, and if we were to all go on out intuition after this discussion, it really doesn't feel like the right dog. 

I had a 18 pound border collie and he could also leap my 5 foot fence, The fence was made of wood, and he usually would just scrape past the top, but he could do it. 

It really just comes down to doing what's truly right for you, your family, and the dog. And not trying to force a situation.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

funzo333 said:


> These are the 2 issues that stuck out most to me as well. I think this is a great thread, and if we were to all go on out intuition after this discussion, it really doesn't feel like the right dog.
> 
> I had a 18 pound border collie and he could also leap my 5 foot fence, The fence was made of wood, and he usually would just scrape past the top, but he could do it.
> 
> It really just comes down to doing what's truly right for you, your family, and the dog. And not trying to force a situation.


My brother has raised: 2 Rottweilers, one GSD, 2 Pitbulls, 1 Doberman on this same roof. He had no problems whatsoever. NONE.

Anyway, neither I or my brother are willing to put any breed in danger if we both feel there is danger.
My brother is a dog addict/trainer. He would jump on me before anyone here if he notices any possible danger on my CO, whether it's the roof, training, food, u name it!
Who knows? maybe in the future if we feel that the CO has the tendency to be suicidal and jump of the roof, then we will DEFINALTLY build a fence!

Also, i don't know if u have kindly read all my posts: i am getting the CO as a puppy...


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> Also, i don't know if u have kindly read all my posts: i am getting the CO as a puppy...


Just to explain why people are a bit bitter about this....

You came here and wrote a post asking "Should i get a caucasian mountain dog puppy ??". You asked this of people who are VASTLY more experienced with the dog world, and frankly even your chosen breed than you are. Every single one of them told you "NO". Then, you turned around and just said "well tough shit, I'm getting one anyway".

Why did you come here and ask if you should get one if you were just going to do what you wanted to do anyway?


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> Just to explain why people are a bit bitter about this....
> 
> You came here and wrote a post asking "Should i get a caucasian mountain dog puppy ??". You asked this of people who are VASTLY more experienced with the dog world, and frankly even your chosen breed than you are. Every single one of them told you "NO". Then, you turned around and just said "well tough shit, I'm getting one anyway".
> 
> Why did you come here and ask if you should get one if you were just going to do what you wanted to do anyway?


That is a great question. And here's why:

During the time you all started replying to my thread, i began to realize that it WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE for all of you folks, through the internet, TO SEE AND JUDGE what, i think, is an acceptable environment for my CO to live in. PICTURES DON'T DO ANY JUSTICE. I can sit here and talk for a year about how the rooftop is fine, how i am willing to socialize the pup, how the town and the lifestyle that i live in are a PUPPY SOCIAL BRAIN WASH MACHINE! i can go on and on.....

Unfortunately, i DID NOT realize this until it was too late (the replies were pouring through on the thread), and it would be just too rude from me not to answer !
SO I WAS WAITING AND HOPING THAT SOMEONE WILL FINALLY GIVE ME THE OK FOR THE CO SO I CAN END THIS THREAD....

The only members who respected my decision at the end were : You and Doggonegood ( and i know you were both not convinced).


Imagine that you're racing 2 cars at the same time, one in the right direction and the other one in the WRONG direction! And you realized that you can no longer control the one going in the wrong direction because it's speeding 240 miles/hour ! So all you have to do is wait for the race to be over.....without any ACCIDENTS!



I have to thank you for this question and i hope everyone understands.


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## j.le (May 13, 2008)

this post makes me so frustrated!!
it's like screaming at a brick wall.

maybe the only way to make you understand is to say that your CO will be as drawn to it's genetic tendencies as you are stubborn about this topic. 

does anyone else notice the parallel?

the OP is the CO and we are trying to change him but he's so effin' set in his ways...


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I do love it when I'm right, I read OP's 1st post and stayed out of this. The dog on the roof was enough for me.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

j.le said:


> this post makes me so frustrated!!
> it's like screaming at a brick wall.
> 
> maybe the only way to make you understand is to say that your CO will be as drawn to it's genetic tendencies as you are stubborn about this topic.
> ...


This thread is beginning to smell a little hostile.

I'm outa here. You will all never hear from me again.

EVERYTIME I TRY TO EXPLAIN WHAT REALLY HAPPENED WITH THE THREAD, SOME IGNORANT LIKE YOU JUMP AND CALL ME A CO?! U CALLING ME A DOG? U F"""" KIDDING ME??? YOU NEED TO CHILL OUT !

i'M BEING JUST TOO MODEST, PATIENT AND A GENTLEMAN TO EVER START LETTING MY ANGRY JUICES OUT! 

BUT I THINK YOU'RE STARTING TO GET THERE J.Le...
SO TO AVOID TRANSFORMING THIS THREAD TO AN "OVER 18" THREAD, I PREFER LEAVING NOW.....

Thanks for all your posts and replies.
And goodbye.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Shoot, I'm sorry you got so upset and left. I know it seems as if you are being ganged up on here. I think what's bothering people is not just the rooftop. I know you will spend the time socializing and training. However, this is such a HUGE dog and you cannot necessarily socialize out any aggressive behavior. Believe me, I know. I have a 10 month old that I rescued (I know-it's not a purebred dog) but I socialized continuously from the time I found them and the I'm beginning to see some genetic predatory aggression or high prey drive in one of my dogs. I couldn't have socialized this dog more...While my dog is only 60 lbs and I'll be able to manage this issue by keeping the dog away from danger. With a dog close to 200 lbs in the area you are in that is bred for protective aggression, with kids and bicycles and all sorts of things to be aggressive towards..you could be setting you and the dog up for trouble. No matter how much training, socializing and love you are giving the dog. There are no absolutes. 

Is your mom in a position to be able to handle the dog? What if she is home alone, would she be physically able to control the dog?


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

that lasted longer than i thought it would.... oh well.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

You know, it really disapoints me when I see this happen on dog forums (and I mean dog forums in general on the internet, not just this forum). I totally and 100% understand everyone's hearts are in the right place and they're looking out for the best interest of the dog and person(s) involved... I so totally get that. In fact I use to approach these situations in the same way. The problem is though you can argue with some people until you're blue in the face (or in the fingers ) and some people you just can't change their minds what-so-ever. So rather than pissing them off and scaring them away, isn't it better to support them by HELPING them? If you help them and give them as much info as humanly possible...maybe; just MAYBE it won't turn out to be as bad of a situation as everyone figures it will. I'm sure these kinds of people are WAY better off with so much advice from so many people with YEARS worth of experience, than they would be without them; regardless of whether or not everyone agrees it's the right thing to do.

I would rather stick around and help someone (once I know it's pointless convincing them not to get the dog) and guide them so it doesnt' turn into a complete disaster than scare them off. Dog forums are SUCH excellent resorces for information. I know my knowledge of dogs and dog ownership increased tenfold when I started participating on dog forums (and that was about 13 years ago). It is such a wonderful resource and so many people get turned away from them because everyone feels the need to jump down their back right away.

You don't have to be rude to disagree with someone, and sometimes it just comes to a point where you can NOT change that persons mind about getting a dog. It doesn't mean they aren't willing to take your advice on training or anything like that though. I've had people tell me it was a bad idea to get Linkin, i had people completely distroy me over the subject. But I did anyway, and I don't regret it for a second. He's been so much heart ache and so much trouble but we've come so far in just a year and he gives back so much that it's worth it 100%. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it's impossible.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

DogGoneGood said:


> You know, it really disapoints me when I see this happen on dog forums (and I mean dog forums in general on the internet, not just this forum). I totally and 100% understand everyone's hearts are in the right place and they're looking out for the best interest of the dog and person(s) involved... I so totally get that. In fact I use to approach these situations in the same way. The problem is though you can argue with some people until you're blue in the face (or in the fingers ) and some people you just can't change their minds what-so-ever. So rather than pissing them off and scaring them away, isn't it better to support them by HELPING them? If you help them and give them as much info as humanly possible...maybe; just MAYBE it won't turn out to be as bad of a situation as everyone figures it will. I'm sure these kinds of people are WAY better off with so much advice from so many people with YEARS worth of experience, than they would be without them; regardless of whether or not everyone agrees it's the right thing to do.
> 
> I would rather stick around and help someone (once I know it's pointless convincing them not to get the dog) and guide them so it doesnt' turn into a complete disaster than scare them off. Dog forums are SUCH excellent resorces for information. I know my knowledge of dogs and dog ownership increased tenfold when I started participating on dog forums (and that was about 13 years ago). It is such a wonderful resource and so many people get turned away from them because everyone feels the need to jump down their back right away.
> 
> You don't have to be rude to disagree with someone, and sometimes it just comes to a point where you can NOT change that persons mind about getting a dog. It doesn't mean they aren't willing to take your advice on training or anything like that though. I've had people tell me it was a bad idea to get Linkin, i had people completely distroy me over the subject. But I did anyway, and I don't regret it for a second. He's been so much heart ache and so much trouble but we've come so far in just a year and he gives back so much that it's worth it 100%. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it's impossible.


I'm still here. And i second every word Doggonegood just wrote!

You like to help, THANK YOU ! 
You like to be rude, F""" YOU !

As simple as that. "Treat people like you wanna be treated".

So anyway, i'm looking forward to share wonderful stories with MOST of you here about the CO pup that am getting after 2 weeks.
Looking forward to it.

Peace.
Rob.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Doggonegood
*You don't have to be rude to disagree with someone, and sometimes it just comes to a point where you can NOT change that persons mind about getting a dog. It doesn't mean they aren't willing to take your advice on training or anything like that though. I've had people tell me it was a bad idea to get Linkin, i had people completely distroy me over the subject. But I did anyway, and I don't regret it for a second. He's been so much heart ache and so much trouble but we've come so far in just a year and he gives back so much that it's worth it 100%. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it's impossible.*

I do agree with you totally and that's why I did not get onto this huge thread. There was nothing that I could contribute because quite frankly I know nothing about the breed and nothing about a keeping a dog on a roof. He*l, I keep my dogs on the ground in kennels and and in home and Murphy's Law still slaps me around. To me the roof program is kinda like the dog riding loose in the back of the pickup, There are many people in rural areas that have done this for years and never had a problem(their dad and grandpas have done it) occasionally a dog is lost while driving down the highway. But nobody is going to change their minds and that's just super. As we travel through life we all make brilliant moves with our families, dogs, horses etc. We also make the moves we don't(at least I do the stupid stuff)brag about too much.


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## InverseLogic (Jun 1, 2008)

qwerty80 said:


> You like to be rude, F""" YOU !
> 
> So anyway, i'm looking forward to share wonderful stories with MOST of you here about the CO pup that am getting after 2 weeks.
> Looking forward to it.


Careful. Just saying.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Good, glad to see you are still around. Come back with questions and DEFINITELY pictures of your new pup.


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## jbray01 (Dec 26, 2007)

i apologize if i said anything that has hurt your feelings, i honestly do. i know getting a puppy is an exciting time, and i never meant to ruin it with negativity.

i think anyone who was advising you against it was just concerned about you and your puppy, because if it is not the right fit, it could be disastrous. a puppy can be frustrating, and tons of work, but as long as the owner is willing to be patient, things can work out great.

again i'm sorry if i offended you, and i wish you good luck with your puppy, and i cant wait to hear how its doing.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

wvasko said:


> Doggonegood
> *You don't have to be rude to disagree with someone, and sometimes it just comes to a point where you can NOT change that persons mind about getting a dog. It doesn't mean they aren't willing to take your advice on training or anything like that though. I've had people tell me it was a bad idea to get Linkin, i had people completely distroy me over the subject. But I did anyway, and I don't regret it for a second. He's been so much heart ache and so much trouble but we've come so far in just a year and he gives back so much that it's worth it 100%. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it's impossible.*
> 
> I do agree with you totally and that's why I did not get onto this huge thread. There was nothing that I could contribute because quite frankly I know nothing about the breed and nothing about a keeping a dog on a roof. He*l, I keep my dogs on the ground in kennels and and in home and Murphy's Law still slaps me around. To me the roof program is kinda like the dog riding loose in the back of the pickup, There are many people in rural areas that have done this for years and never had a problem(their dad and grandpas have done it) occasionally a dog is lost while driving down the highway. But nobody is going to change their minds and that's just super. As we travel through life we all make brilliant moves with our families, dogs, horses etc. We also make the moves we don't(at least I do the stupid stuff)brag about too much.



I know, wvasko, you're cool stuff  Which is why I wasn't pointing fingers! There's some people who remained amazingly cool through this whole thread and my hat tips off to them!

I'm glad to see the original OP has not been scared off. I think this wonderful resource can help him out a LOT!

As for the roof situation... I totally agree that it's a bit bizzare, and there IS a possibility of it being dangerous. I, and someone else, suggested you put a kennel up there with a high fence (and a cover on it too). I think that would be a good thing to do. Personally I would sleep a lot better at night knowing my dog was locked away safely rather than worry if he were to go after something exciting and right off the roof. I've seen dogs take tumbles (never anything like OFF A ROOF though) because they were so hyped on catching something they completely lost focus of what was around them. It's just a risk I would not be willing to take.

Wvasko, I couldn't agree with you more about dogs in trucks. There are a LOT of people who do that here, and I've never witnessed such a disaster first hand (thank god) but have heard more than one story about a dog jumping out of a truck. The worst is when they're only tied in by one line! My dogs are never in the back unless they're crossed tied or in a crate, and both circumstances are very rare as they're usually in the cab with us! (Yes, even though one screams the whole time and the other gets car sick!)


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

I've spoken a bit with the OP in PMs. He wont' be returning to this thread, but he is staying around the boards.

For better or for worse, he is getting a Caucasian Mountain Dog. I humbly request that from this point on, you all drop the entire convo about him NOT getting one, and start helping him with what he needs with his puppy.

This person is one of the people who will need our help the most, and is the LAST kind of member we want to scare off. With our help, he has a MUCH better chance of succeeding.

Please, treat him from now on like you would treat any other member of this board. In fact, think of it this way: treat his puppy like you would treat any other puppy on this board - he needs us.


P.S. Also a formal request to mods to close this thread. Let the heat cool down please, it's gone on enough.


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## DogGoneGood (Jun 22, 2008)

Well said trumpetjock, although I personally rarely see the need for closing a topic, but if it has been requested I will respect that.


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

TJ, it's fine ...U don't have to request closing the thread...
I just like to ask everyone to keep an eye open on it though , as i will be posting pics etc on the same thread, unless, u prefer me to open a new thread when the pup arrives (?).
It doesn't matter to me either way.

And speaking of, here are some pics of the puppy. I took then during my last visit last week. The pup was 35 days old back then.
I just can't believe that little thing will grow up to be 100 + pounds.
U should see how he walks with that huge head and tiny body.

[/ATTACH]


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> It doesn't matter to me either way.


Lets move on. Let by gones be by gones and start fresh.

Just start a new thread for whatever topic it is you need, or want to show us


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> Lets move on. Let by gones be by gones and start fresh.
> 
> Just start a new thread for whatever topic it is you need, or want to show us


Ok then. 
I'll start a new thread when the pup arrives, with pics etc...


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

DogGoneGood said:


> I know, wvasko, you're cool stuff  Which is why I wasn't pointing fingers! There's some people who remained amazingly cool through this whole thread and my hat tips off to them!
> 
> I'm glad to see the original OP has not been scared off. I think this wonderful resource can help him out a LOT!
> 
> ...


DogGone 
yes that's the part I don't even attempt to understand. You can cross tie dog in truck and all is good.


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

qwerty80 said:


> Ok then.
> I'll start a new thread when the pup arrives, with pics etc...


Yes, PICS are a MUST.....


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## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

Before this thread closes I would also like to say I hope I didn't say anything offensive, and if I did I humbly apologize. If I came across that YOU aren't going to be a good dog owner, I'm also sorry. I think you will be a GREAT owner, I just think you could have picked a better breed.  I am glad that you are sticking around and that you are going to do all you can with your new pup.  I wish you luck!


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## qwerty80 (Aug 14, 2008)

blackrose said:


> Before this thread closes I would also like to say I hope I didn't say anything offensive, and if I did I humbly apologize. If I came across that YOU aren't going to be a good dog owner, I'm also sorry. I think you will be a GREAT owner, I just think you could have picked a better breed.  I am glad that you are sticking around and that you are going to do all you can with your new pup.  I wish you luck!


Thank you


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## rozeyg5 (Apr 18, 2012)

We have this breed of dog and they are extremly big, they shed like crazy and need to have a big yard to roam, we bought ours from a puppy at 7weeks and no matter what, the dog will bark when it hears sound, it is in their nature to defend its family, heres the site we got our dog from and has great info about if you should own this breed
http://courageouscaucasians.com/shouldI.htm


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Oooooooooops.


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