# Good article regarding about comp. obedience and entering dogs before they are ready.



## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Here's a great article about making sure a dog is truly ready to trial before entering in Novice. This can also be applied to any dog sport (especially agility) about making sure your dog is ready and safe to be off leash in that sort of environment. 

I have experience with this as Lars was charged in Open B doing a Drop on Recall by a GSD in the novice ring. Thankfully, it didn't have the outcome this article talks about. Lars knew his job and completed the exercise despite the dog freaking out at the ring gate at him while he was dropping. The GSD's handler entered her dog before she was ready and properly proofed. I had a frank discussion with her and told her she was very lucky it was Lars her GSD decided to charge. Most dogs wouldn't have been as tolerant of that behavior as he was.

It's a PDF file: http://www.dianebauman.com/assets/DB_HOUSTON-PROBLEM.pdf

It has some really, really good food for thought.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

I know this is old but I just saw it and read it and... everything in this article relates to my life at the moment. Not just in decided what/when to enter my dog in obedience for the first time, but also in trying to establish and grow myself as a trainer and the numerous different factors that come with that. So, its late but, thank you so much for sharing this article. It gave me a lot to think about it and put certain things in perspective for me.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Here is another blog about trial readiness that I thought was great:

http://denisefenzi.com/2014/03/19/the-miracle-method/


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Both very good articles. I have not attended an Obedience trial in years, but have competed in Agility. Kris, my Dobe, has been attending Obedience classes since she was a puppy and I still feel she is not ready to compete. Until her stays are more solid, she is not competing even though when she does break a stay, she never ever approaches another dog or interferes with anyone, she just comes to me. What is the point of competing if you only have a 50/50 chance of passing? Smart dogs learn very quickly when they can be corrected and when they can't and get ring-wise so you are not doing yourself or them any favors by competing too soon.

It is a little different in Agility as you can choose to just do a few obstacles (FEO) and leave the ring thus giving the dog some ring experience but not spoiling it. Of course, I do not believe you should compete if your dog keeps leaving the ring as obviously your dog is not focused enough to be there or if they are aggressive with other dogs, they should not compete in either until you have complete control over them which is not always possible with all dogs.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Really? the point of these articles aren't that you shouldn't put a dog in the ring before they're properly trained, the point is that if you don't hurt your dog sufficiently during training, you shouldn't compete.

First of all, "the good old days" were never as good as people remember, secondly, more undertrained dogs are entering the ring not because of positive training, but because dog sports overall have increased greatly in popularity so the number of people who really shouldn't be competing has increased greatly as well.


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## Shep (May 16, 2013)

I think lack of ring-readiness is very often the cause of dogs "shutting down," "tuning out," "freezing," etc., in the ring. Sometimes this gets blamed on harsh training, and sometimes that may be the case, but dogs who don't know their job and are suddenly expected to do it in an unfamiliar environment surrounded by strange dogs and people and without the food and toys they are used to in training often react that way. Doesn't mean their handlers used "punishment" training. They may have been trained very positively, but they are not yet as certain of their job as their handlers think they are, they get confused, they get slow, and everything deteriorates. People very often misjudge just how ready their dogs are. Don't rush them.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

Amaryllis said:


> Really? the point of these articles aren't that you shouldn't put a dog in the ring before they're properly trained, the point is that if you don't hurt your dog sufficiently during training, you shouldn't compete.


Where does it say that anywhere??


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Amaryllis said:


> Really? the point of these articles aren't that you shouldn't put a dog in the ring before they're properly trained, the point is that if you don't hurt your dog sufficiently during training, you shouldn't compete.
> 
> First of all, "the good old days" were never as good as people remember, secondly, more undertrained dogs are entering the ring not because of positive training, but because dog sports overall have increased greatly in popularity so the number of people who really shouldn't be competing has increased greatly as well.


Seriously?? Have you trained a dog to competition level in anything? I don't comment on things I don't feel like I know enough to comment on.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

The link that I put up is from a force free trainer. No where in the second article is correction even mentioned or hinted at.


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## Shep (May 16, 2013)

Amaryllis, if my dog attacks and "punctures" your dog in the ring, as was described in the Diane Bauman article, I am d**n well going to correct him. HARD. And I'm betting you wouldn't be sorry I did, if the alternative is seeing your dog lying dead in front of you.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Shep said:


> Amaryllis, if my dog attacks and "punctures" your dog in the ring, as was described in the Diane Bauman article, I am d**n well going to correct him. HARD. And I'm betting you wouldn't be sorry I did, if the alternative is seeing your dog lying dead in front of you.


I was going to say the same...if my Rottweilers attack and seriously injures your dog in the ring. I would lay down the Come to Jesus meeting to end all come to Jesus meetings. And if anyone's dog comes into the ring and lays teeth on my rottweilers, you can be d*mn sure I won't take that lightly either. I'm going to go in there and start literally kicking some major bad dog a**.

Amaryllis, I am so flipping irritated you came in here and said what you said!


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I did not see anything in the two articles that indicated they "rough up" their dogs to make them perform. When I am training a Stay and Kris moves, I can put her back, I can't do that in the ring at an Obedience trial. It does not mean I hurt my dog. I agree with what Shep said.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

Honestly, like dog parks....some dogs have no business at agility trials. I have witnessed several attacks that could have ended badly had it not been for the quick thinking and action of people around. A Golden (who was actually running in the ring) jumped out of the ring to attack a very small MAS. Several bystanders tackled the Golden before he could catch the MAS (who for his own good luck was incredibly fast). The Golden had already been banned from AKC trials for DA. A green ACD attacked a GSD right after his run as the GSD was entering the ring. My trainer had to jump in to corral the ACD. Luckily for the ACD the GSD was a sweetie and didn't reciprocate. That could have been ugly. One club member has aussies who absolutely shouldn't be allowed at trials. One dog gets so over threshold that it bites at her in the ring. I believe that dog has been excused from trials in the past. The other ripped my friend's crate trying to get at her rat terrier. None of the dogs were physically injured but the MAS can't trial due to nerves. As an owner of small dogs, I take dog on dog aggression very seriously, especially now that I have a fluffy white guy who bounces around.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

At one of our Agility trials I was sitting back quite a ways from the ring with Remmy on leash lying at my feet. A fox terrier came flying out of the ring and came running over and pounced on him. I managed to stick out my foot and knock him off Remmy as I got to my feet. He left tooth marks on Remmy but he had a fairly long coat at the time so no real damage. The woman came over and apologized and after that made sure she had hold of her dog at the end of the course so I did not report her. Luckily it had no effect on Remmy, think it happened so fast he did not have time to react.


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