# A little worried about the breeder I chose



## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

So with all these things happening with people like Mel and with misc *don't think I spelled that right sorry* I'm wondering if I should choose a different breeder as well. The website doesn't give you OFA stats but her dogs have won a lot of awards including Westminster, so I figured they have to be structurally sound right?

Another thing that bothers me is she almost never answers my e-mails, I have e-mailed her recently to tell her instead of getting a male we would be looking for a female instead and that we were thinking of getting one in spring if she had a litter on the ground. I never heard anything back this was months ago and before that I had e-mailed her asking how her last litter was and how her dogs were doing *which was about 4 months BEFORE this last e-mail* so about 6 months ago.

I haven't put a deposit down, but her puppies are expensive *1800* which I don't know but seems steep for a rough collie? I don't really know. Maybe I should find a different breeder? 

I have met the breeder in person and she seemed legit and all of her dogs are well taken care of I know that for sure just by looking at them  or maybe I'm just being silly but some advice would be really nice. If you want to PM me I could tell you the name of the kennel.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Do you know the registered names of some of her dogs? You can look them up on www.offa.org if so. Make sure their eyes are done too. If they aren't on there, it either means they weren't tested or she didn't register the results (why not?). And, did HER dogs win at shows or are her dogs just "from championship lines"? I wouldn't assume they were structurally sound just from winning because some problems aren't obvious, and some dogs aren't going to be affected. 

Like I said in the other thread, I figure that someone who isn't communicating with me doesn't want to do business with me. So I would consider that a deal-breaker but other people have different tolerances for that.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Didn't you go with Heatherfield? I saw on a collie group I was on that she lost a bunch of her dogs to the MDR1 mutation. This was months ago. They had a big gofund me going for her. 

So maybe that's why, if it's a different breeder I'm just yacking then.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

sclevenger said:


> Didn't you go with Heatherfield? I saw on a collie group I was on that she lost a bunch of her dogs to the MDR1 mutation. This was months ago. They had a big gofund me going for her.


How did that happen? It's not a fatal mutation. Did the breeder give them certain meds without knowing their MDR1 status? I wouldn't use THAT breeder. Nobody should be that clueless about their own dogs.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Willowy said:


> How did that happen? It's not a fatal mutation. Did the breeder give them certain meds without knowing their MDR1 status? I wouldn't use THAT breeder. Nobody should be that clueless about their own dogs.


I am not sure of the details. The thing just said that it was a reaction to the drug. I think like 10 dogs were affected, when I stopped following it I think 5 had already died or something. I've tried googling it and the only thing I found was a pint rest saying it was a tapeworm treatment, however not sure how reliable thst it.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I tried looking up Heatherfield's adult dogs (to run some names in the OFA database) but you need Flash to see anything on the site, and my phone doesn't support Flash. I didn't like that they said the puppies "had an eye exam" but maybe they do proper testing too.


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Heatherfield did lose a bunch of dogs. I'm not sure why but I think it had something to do with ivermectin, but please don't quote me on that.

On the other hand, I think $1800 for a collie is outrageous unless the dog is a proven champion that you're going to show. I live in California where everything is more expensive and my dogs were $600 for Toby and $700 for Cameron. He was $100 more because if his testicle had dropped he was still a show potential.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Heatherfield has great reviews and supported by other collie breeders alike. Not saying not to still do the research, but I personally wouldn't worry to much. 

Especially, since she just lost 10 of her dogs. I relooked up on Google and found on another breeder facebook, that all 10 dogs were loat, it wasn't from the Hartz deworming treatment, but it doesn't say what it was. I feel just awful for her.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Sandakat said:


> Heatherfield did lose a bunch of dogs. I'm not sure why but I think it had something to do with ivermectin, but please don't quote me on that.
> 
> On the other hand, I think $1800 for a collie is outrageous unless the dog is a proven champion that you're going to show. I live in California where everything is more expensive and my dogs were $600 for Toby and $700 for Cameron. He was $100 more because if his testicle had dropped he was still a show potential.


I agree with you. When I was looking at collies Heatherfield came off my list based on her price alone. I found it absurd. Especially since other breeders were doing the same things with prices closer to yours.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Yes I was still going to go with Heatherfield but with everything going on with everyone else I was starting to second guess and Willowy there are plaques at the house and ribbons and also on the website there are pictures of her bitch winning  so she's not lying about that, but the prices are really high.....


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

$1800 is cheap if you are buying a Cavalier....wow.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

$1800 is high for a collie. I would expect something between $600-$800, maybe a little more if you were buying a puppy that was going to be shown but even then nothing close to $1800.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

So Cavalier said:


> $1800 is cheap if you are buying a Cavalier....wow.


Yea I know but I was thinking because her dogs are so great the price is worth it


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

kcomstoc said:


> Yea I know but I was thinking because her dogs are so great the price is worth it


That only means something to me if I was going to be showing one of her dogs. You know? I mean her dogs are great because of their show worthy Ness. 

Other breeders had the same health and temperment. And showing their dogs the same, for half the price. Especially for a pet quality puppy.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

sclevenger said:


> That only means something to me if I was going to be showing one of her dogs. You know? I mean her dogs are great because of their show worthy Ness.
> 
> Other breeders had the same health and temperment. And showing their dogs the same, for half the price. Especially for a pet quality puppy.


That's true  I should look closer to me but if anyone has some recommendations it would be awesome


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Thinking of going with another breeder in Iowa because they have much more reasonable prices $850.00 per puppy, they are further away though by A LOT the last breeder was 5 hours away this one is 13 hours >.> but they OFA test, eye test, and MDR1 tested as well  so I'm a lot happier that it's all listed on the website


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

I believe she lost all but one dog, so she may not feel up to responding at this time


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

That's horrible but I still should've heard something from her even if it was something like "something horrible has happened so I can't answer you right now".... How long ago did she lose her dogs? Was it dogs she sold as puppies or her dogs she uses for breeding?


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## Estes Kefauver (Sep 2, 2015)

_I'm not sayin' ... I'm just sayin'._ (as in "conversationally" and all)

The two(2) best obedience dogs I've ever had (since 1972) were rescues. Neither had _"show"_ looks, but were gorgeous in my eyes still. If I'm dropping that kinda $$$ on a dog from a breeder, it's gonna be a breeder I know from shows that I've interacted with for a good while. You don't have to participate in showing dogs, but you should be there a little bit to meet the people involved, and find out if you get along with each other as friends. That is important to me I guess. 


Estes​


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## DogTheGreat (Jul 9, 2015)

kcomstoc said:


> That's horrible but I still should've heard something from her even if it was something like "something horrible has happened so I can't answer you right now".... How long ago did she lose her dogs? Was it dogs she sold as puppies or her dogs she uses for breeding?


Her own personal dogs. From what I came across, they were still having updates on the remaining dog's conditions in early July. The last update was July 12th (June 18th appears to be the beginning of it all) giving the names of all nine of the dog's names who had passed. Only two survived. I can't imagine what they must be going through and I don't think I'd have it in me to respond to emails either in this kind of situation. How heartbreaking.


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

Know next to nothing about rough collies, but I would expect a breeder to list full health testing on there website. 
If the standard one is 600 to 800, then I might see 800 to 1000 for one from proven champion parents that where health tested and had passed everything for a pet quality pup.
I can see a bit more for a quality pet that has the best chances for stability, a lower chance of health issues and hopefully a good life span. But not 2.5 to 3 times more.

From past experience I could see around a 3rd more which would around 800 to 1100.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

I paid 1400$ for an Australian Shepherd that came from a proven and award-winning show home where she did all the testing (eyes, hips, elbows) and she treated ALL her dogs as mutant x mutant for the MDR1 gene so as to be on the safest side. 

The previous breeder I was originally going to go with was half the amount (700$) for half of what my other breeder ended up giving me. (I think she only tested hips)

That being said, I wouldn't generally pay over 1400 - 1500 for a very well *purebred* dog from a *reputable and award-winning breeder* - but there are always exceptions.

If you do not feel comfortable with this breeder, do *NOT* go with them. I cannot tell you how HAPPY I am that I listened to my gut / to the advice I was given here and went with someone else. She, too, was further, and twice as much, but about one million times worth it.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I don't think $1800 is totally unreasonable. Average cost around here is $1500-$2000 for a purebred dog with health testing. I think you might want to go with another breeder though as it sounds like she probably won't be having puppies anytime soon. That's really awful what happened.


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Here is the link to colliesonline.com breeder directory: http://www.colliesonline.com/breeders/states/index.php. You can search by state for breeders.

Heatherfield is definitely a legitimate breeder who showed and tested and did everything right. They are just very expensive. I would doubt that they're up to doing anything right now. I'm sure they're in shock and mourning. What a devastating loss!


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

jade5280 said:


> I don't think $1800 is totally unreasonable. Average cost around here is $1500-$2000 for a purebred dog with health testing. I think you might want to go with another breeder though as it sounds like she probably won't be having puppies anytime soon. That's really awful what happened.


I didn't think $1,800 sounded unreasonable, either, but I didn't know if that was just me.... My Dane puppy is on the low end of what reputable breeders charge around here, at $1,500. I was looking at puppies in the $2-4K range from most of my local breeders. 

Maybe Danes are more expensive than other breeds because there are larger inherent risks of breeding them and they're more expensive to maintain? Not sure, I haven't done any extensive breeder research outside of the Great Dane world.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I think price depends a lot on breed (litter size, rarity, potential health issues with breeding), but $1500-1800 is normal for a Welshie so I wouldn't steer away from them for that alone.

It's sad that most of her dogs died. It's likely that she doesn't really have a breeding program at this point and doesn't feel up to answering emails. I would look for someone else and let her get back on her feet.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Sandakat said:


> Here is the link to colliesonline.com breeder directory: http://www.colliesonline.com/breeders/states/index.php. You can search by state for breeders.
> 
> Heatherfield is definitely a legitimate breeder who showed and tested and did everything right. They are just very expensive. I would doubt that they're up to doing anything right now. I'm sure they're in shock and mourning. What a devastating loss!


I knew she was legit but I couldn't find any of her dogs in the OFA listings and I feel awful about her dogs I didn't know that was happening at all. I met all of her dogs that she had and it would be heartbreaking just to lose one dog let alone 9. Since this has happened though she's obviously not going to have any litters anytime soon *which is understandable*. Thank you for the link


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

If you're concerned about OFA results...you can search by the kennel name. I spent a lot of time on OFA researching dogs and lines before I even contacted breeders when looking for Lars. 

As for the price, I dropped 1800 dollars on Lars. Both of his parents had passed their OFA's and had the CHIC numbers. Both parents were very well proven in the working world in multiple sports and Lars' father had his CKC and AKC Championship and his AKC Champion Tracker title. 

Ocean, I spent 1500 dollars...he was co-bred with my breeder and the lady who owned O's mother set the price. Again, both parents passed their OFA's and had their CHIC. Both parents were AKC Champions. Both parents were highly titled with an IPO3 on the father and mother had high level agility and herding titles and her CDX. With that I want to do with dogs 1500- 1800 dollars is reasonable.


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

MrsBoats said:


> If you're concerned about OFA results...you can search by the kennel name. I spent a lot of time on OFA researching dogs and lines before I even contacted breeders when looking for Lars.


Oddly, I searched the Kennel name and the individual adult dogs listed on the site by name and registration number where provided. Nada. So if testing is being done, doesn't look like results are being publicly listed. A search by breed only turns up 16 collies total. Also, on the site I can't find any actual mention of health testing, merely a reference to a good breeder being concerned for health and temperament. So I can see where the OP's confusion and concern comes from.

ETA: Tried the breed search again and now there are a few hundred pages of results. So I'm not sure what is going on with the OFFA website. Still can't find any Heatherfield kennel name or the individual dog names and registration numbers though. But perhaps OFFA is having some search issues, based on the previous breed search results...

The situation is tragic, I can't imagine losing nine dogs. Apparently from what I've read its the result of a tapeworm anti-parasitic that was used. What blows my mind though, reading through some of the Collie pages... Is how many owners (and a few breeders) seem to be a bit clueless regarding MDR1... If you haven't confirmed the dog is n/n... Why would you even risk using anything that contained any of the known drugs that MDR1 dogs are sensitive to? Some of them don't even test for that. 

(Not referring to this breeder specifically, there are any number of things that could contribute to accidental use of a drug and Ivermectin isn't the only drug MDR1 dogs are affected by. But some of the responses in the discussions in general are kind of jaw dropping...)


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, I feel like a Collie breeder ought to know that kind of thing. Now if the drugs were given by someone who wasn't familiar with the dogs I might understand, but even then I'd question the level of supervision. Unless it was a new drug that wasn't known to cause problems. . .nah, even then, they should be using extra caution with unknown drugs. I just don't think a breeder should be ignorant of anything about their chosen breed.

I feel really bad for the breeder and the dogs but this is a thing that shouldn't happen.

I've heard that health testing is rare in Collie breeders. Not sure why.


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## DogTheGreat (Jul 9, 2015)

Ivermectin can cause serious problems even in MDR1 N/N dogs. Two of her dogs had taken the medication previously with no issue (one was OK the second time and the other died).

"Let my suffering be a learning lesson, so at least some good can come out of this.
The MDR1 gene mutation:
1st, if your dog is N/N, your dog can still have a reaction.
I took a group of my dogs to a herding lesson Tuesday evening. In that group, I had a dog who was MDR1 N/N with lots of herding experience, a dog who is MDR1 M/N with moderate herding experience, and a bitch (Bristol) who is MDR1 M/N with this being her first lesson.
Bristol doesn't like pressure, she likes to do things on her terms, so every time pressure was applied during her lesson- she would revolt. She would ignore the sheep, eat some poop. I'd correct her for eating to poop and ease off the pressure.
Fast forward to this morning. After rushing Bristol to the vet unresponsive with muscle tremors and going over everything in the last 24 hours with my vet, we kept coming back to the herding lesson. I contacted the farm I was herding at and they had wormed their herd with oral Ivermectin: 1/2 on Monday, 1/2 on Tuesday.
Without giving all the details- ultimately I moved Bristol to Tufts, where she is now on a ventilator in ICU fighting for her life. It is not known yet if there is permanent brain injury or not.
The vet told me that with the severity of her reaction, had she been MDR1 N/N, she still would have had a severe reaction, but probably not as bad. Had she been MDR1 M/M, she would have been dead this morning.
ANY dog, regardless of their MDR1 status, given enough Ivermectin can have a reaction and enough can be lethal to even a dog who is N/N
When livestock is wormed, the wormer is shed in the feces with lethal doses lasting up to 4 days after treatment and lower doses still being excreted up to 14 days after treatment.
I never thought to ask when the livestock had last been wormed and that mistake may cost Bristol her life.
Please don't let my mistake be your mistake." 

Another sad post from an admin in an Australian Shepherd group I'm in on FB regarding ivermectin. Yes, though, I agree there needs to be routine testing for something like MDR1 in a breed that it's common in.


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Willowy said:


> I've heard that health testing is rare in Collie breeders. Not sure why.


ALL good collie breeders will have their eyes checked at 6 weeks. A lot of them don't do OFA testing because hip and elbow dysplasia is very uncommon in collies. I don't know why they don't all do MDR1 testing. 

I was just on the Washington State U Vet School site. Some form of MDR1 mutation is found in 70% of collies. (It's also found in 50% of Aussies and miniature Aussies, FYI)


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

DogTheGreat said:


> Ivermectin can cause serious problems even in MDR1 N/N dogs. Two of her dogs had taken the medication previously with no issue (one was OK the second time and the other died).
> 
> "Let my suffering be a learning lesson, so at least some good can come out of this.
> The MDR1 gene mutation:
> ...


I just read this as well. So sad.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

*Gumiho * did they say what they product they gave to the dogs ?????? The day that I gave Adele a Dewormer for tape worm, is the day she went crazy violent about 30 minutes to an hour of her taking it...

never mind saw the other post explaining the situation...


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Willowy said:


> How did that happen? It's not a fatal mutation. Did the breeder give them certain meds without knowing their MDR1 status? I wouldn't use THAT breeder. Nobody should be that clueless about their own dogs.


It happens with breeders who dont test their dogs for the MDR1 mutation.



kcomstoc said:


> Thinking of going with another breeder in Iowa because they have much more reasonable prices $850.00 per puppy, they are further away though by A LOT the last breeder was 5 hours away this one is 13 hours >.> but they OFA test, eye test, and MDR1 tested as well  so I'm a lot happier that it's all listed on the website


That's good, go with your gut, if something feels "off" it probably is, does this breeder have a website? I would be interested in looking at it.



missc89 said:


> I paid 1400$ for an Australian Shepherd that came from a proven and award-winning show home where she did all the testing (eyes, hips, elbows) and she treated ALL her dogs as mutant x mutant for the MDR1 gene so as to be on the safest side.
> 
> The previous breeder I was originally going to go with was half the amount (700$) for half of what my other breeder ended up giving me. (I think she only tested hips)
> 
> ...


Even if Lincoln were N/N (mother is a carrier, father is N/N so the most he could be is carrier/n, or M/N I believe ... someone can correct me if I am wrong) ... I do plan to get him tested when money isnt so tight, even if he tests N/N, I will still treat him as though he were M/M as well just to be safe.



Willowy said:


> Yeah, I feel like a Collie breeder ought to know that kind of thing. Now if the drugs were given by someone who wasn't familiar with the dogs I might understand, but even then I'd question the level of supervision. Unless it was a new drug that wasn't known to cause problems. . .nah, even then, they should be using extra caution with unknown drugs. I just don't think a breeder should be ignorant of anything about their chosen breed.
> 
> I feel really bad for the breeder and the dogs but this is a thing that shouldn't happen.
> 
> I've heard that health testing is rare in Collie breeders. Not sure why.


Health testing is no more rare in collie breeders than it is in a breeder of any other breed.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, that's about as close to a freak accident as possible. That's really sad .


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sclevenger said:


> I just read this as well. So sad.


I saw this on FB, so very sad for dog and owner, I hope the dog can recover


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

> Health testing is no more rare in collie breeders than it is in a breeder of any other breed.


If you're looking into Collie breeders, you see/hear "don't expect to see any OFA testing" a lot. Sandakat pointed out that HD and ED are rare so I guess that's why.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Gumiho said:


> Oddly, I searched the Kennel name and the individual adult dogs listed on the site by name and registration number where provided. Nada. So if testing is being done, doesn't look like results are being publicly listed. A search by breed only turns up 16 collies total. Also, on the site I can't find any actual mention of health testing, merely a reference to a good breeder being concerned for health and temperament. So I can see where the OP's confusion and concern comes from.
> 
> ETA: Tried the breed search again and now there are a few hundred pages of results. So I'm not sure what is going on with the OFFA website. Still can't find any Heatherfield kennel name or the individual dog names and registration numbers though. But perhaps OFFA is having some search issues, based on the previous breed search results...
> 
> ...


I find this alarming as well. Honestly being on the collie facebook groups sometimes just....I don't know what the correct words for it even are. I guess I would expect a group of dog enthusiasts to actually know something about dogs. Most of them seem to live in a fantasy land where collies are semi-mythical beings, characters from their beloved childhood books, tv shows, and movies. They have no idea how to actually care for and train dogs which is concerning. I hear a lot of "a collie isn't like other dogs" and "you don't need to do that with a collie" and "oh a collie would never do that" when referencing normal dog behaviors like, pulling on a leash or chewing. Many owners seem completely unconcerned with whether breeders are testing their dogs, just about whether they can get a dog that is the right colors or "related to Lassie" ect.


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Here's the website for the WSU vet school info on MDR1 and how to get it tested: http://vcpl.vetmed.wsu.edu. It's a very simple buccal swab and it only costs $60 (US). It's well worth it if you own a collie or Aussie. Surprisingly, border collies only have a 5% rate of being affected. Long haired whippets are second most affected at 65% and silken windhounds are at 30%.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Willowy said:


> If you're looking into Collie breeders, you see/hear "don't expect to see any OFA testing" a lot. Sandakat pointed out that HD and ED are rare so I guess that's why.


Most reputable breeders will test for HD, even if their breed isnt "known" for it, much like most smaller breed breeders test patellas. I mean most MAS breeders test hips and their dogs arent large or giant breeds.


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

DogTheGreat said:


> Ivermectin can cause serious problems even in MDR1 N/N dogs. Two of her dogs had taken the medication previously with no issue (one was OK the second time and the other died).
> 
> "Let my suffering be a learning lesson, so at least some good can come out of this.
> The MDR1 gene mutation:
> ...


That is less an issue with the toxicity of Ivermectin in general. It has a massive safety margin for dogs that don't have the MDR1 gene and for most animals. For dogs in general toxicity starts becoming a real concern at 2mg/kg in a single dose, that is a huge dose. Its LD50 value is 80mg/kg for a non-MDR1 dog, an obscenely, insanely massive dose.

For an MDR1 dog, the toxicity threshold is significantly lower. The LD50 value is .2mg/kg for an MDR1 dog. Toxicity is a concern with doses as little as .06mg/kg. Doses as little as .1 mg/kg can cause serious neurological issues. That is a massive difference in tolerance between MDR1 M/M and n/n dogs. 

Sheep have a much higher tolerance than dogs and their doses are much, MUCH larger. So they'd be likely to shed a lot of the drug in their feces. Enough to cause issues. That dog also was M/n, which has a high chance of reacting to the drugs the same as any M/M dog. I disagree with the vet that an n/n dog would react similarly unless it ate significantly more. But yes, checking when livestock was last wormed and with what would be excellent advice for any owner of breeds affected by MDR1.

There isn't even a mandatory withdrawal period for egg layers or dairy cattle that ivermec has been used on, and its a go to anti-parasitic for pregnant women and children.


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

Remaru said:


> I find this alarming as well. Honestly being on the collie facebook groups sometimes just....I don't know what the correct words for it even are. I guess I would expect a group of dog enthusiasts to actually know something about dogs. Most of them seem to live in a fantasy land where collies are semi-mythical beings, characters from their beloved childhood books, tv shows, and movies. They have no idea how to actually care for and train dogs which is concerning. I hear a lot of "a collie isn't like other dogs" and "you don't need to do that with a collie" and "oh a collie would never do that" when referencing normal dog behaviors like, pulling on a leash or chewing. Many owners seem completely unconcerned with whether breeders are testing their dogs, just about whether they can get a dog that is the right colors or "related to Lassie" ect.


Well, they are semi mythical, just ask Toby. He KNOWS he's God's gift to humankind.

All kidding aside, what Remaru says is very true. So many people seem to believe that they're all Lassie. I guess they could potentially be like Lassie, but you have to put in the work you'd put into ANY dog, regardless of the breed. The breed has some wonderful traits that makes them great family dogs, but I've also met scared, yippy, stubborn and disobedient collies. They are still DOGS.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Remaru said:


> I find this alarming as well. Honestly being on the collie facebook groups sometimes just....I don't know what the correct words for it even are. I guess I would expect a group of dog enthusiasts to actually know something about dogs. Most of them seem to live in a fantasy land where collies are semi-mythical beings, characters from their beloved childhood books, tv shows, and movies. They have no idea how to actually care for and train dogs which is concerning. I hear a lot of "a collie isn't like other dogs" and "you don't need to do that with a collie" and "oh a collie would never do that" when referencing normal dog behaviors like, pulling on a leash or chewing. Many owners seem completely unconcerned with whether breeders are testing their dogs, just about whether they can get a dog that is the right colors or "related to Lassie" ect.


I have to agree with you on the later. When I was researching collies it got hard to actually find what they were like because everyone is in such a fantasy world. I actually had a post removed because I asked about intelligence, biddability and the such due to my uncle, many years ago bred them(well his wife) and he said he didn't find them to be all that "bright" It started a huge fight, because how dare anyone say anything less than the best. It got right down nasty, name calling to myself and my family, and finally 1 owner said... guys, we all love our collies but let's be realistic, her uncle is kinda right, she went on to say about the intelligence and training compared to her German Shepherd..... well post was shut down. Soon after I got off my collie kick.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Honestly, I think most if not all breeds have a lot of wackos among their fans. Or at least on the internet . Rottweilers and pit bulls, it's all a bunch of macho "my dog can kill your dog, and/or any intruders, and OF COURSE they know the difference between a bad guy and the UPS guy" stuff, with gentler breeds you get the "my pookie snookums is perfect" kind of people.


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## DogTheGreat (Jul 9, 2015)

Willowy said:


> Honestly, I think most if not all breeds have a lot of wackos among their fans. Or at least on the internet . Rottweilers and pit bulls, it's all a bunch of macho "my dog can kill your dog, and/or any intruders, and OF COURSE they know the difference between a bad guy and the UPS guy" stuff, with gentler breeds you get the "my pookie snookums is perfect" kind of people.


I then you've got dog owners of all sorts of breeds that do stuff online like writing as though they actually _are_ their dog.


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Honestly, I think most if not all breeds have a lot of wackos among their fans. Or at least on the internet . Rottweilers and pit bulls, it's all a bunch of macho "my dog can kill your dog, and/or any intruders, and OF COURSE they know the difference between a bad guy and the UPS guy" stuff, with gentler breeds you get the "my pookie snookums is perfect" kind of people.


My breed even has people who insist its impossible to train Jindo. Or that they absolutely will not ever, under any circumstances accept any master other than their first. Despite, you know, lots of evidence to the contrary.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Honestly, I think most if not all breeds have a lot of wackos among their fans. Or at least on the internet . Rottweilers and pit bulls, it's all a bunch of macho "my dog can kill your dog, and/or any intruders, and OF COURSE they know the difference between a bad guy and the UPS guy" stuff, with gentler breeds you get the "my pookie snookums is perfect" kind of people.


Agreed. But it was really hard to learn about a breeds training when all I got was stories of the dogs lassie like heroics. No joke. 

There's the other side of pit owners too..... the, pits are so cuddly and perfect, they are little Lassies or golden retrievers and require no additional training or socalization. Just perfect.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea there's a lot of special snowflake breed deification out there. Half the time it's like... stuff literally every dog I've ever had has done. 

Not that breeds don't have traits. But stuff like "they follow you to the bathroom!" Yea, that's a dog thing, not a breed X thing.


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

sassafras said:


> special snowflake breed deification .


Best phrase of the morning!


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## Gumiho (Mar 16, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Yea there's a lot of special snowflake breed deification out there. Half the time it's like... stuff literally every dog I've ever had has done.
> 
> Not that breeds don't have traits. But stuff like "they follow you to the bathroom!" Yea, that's a dog thing, not a breed X thing.


Mine literally throws his empty dog bowl at my legs when its empty and he is hungry. Does that count?
If I had to give a special snowflake title to my breed... It would be "Noble A-holes". They're like a K-drama wrapped up in a furry package.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Not that breeds don't have traits. But stuff like "they follow you to the bathroom!" Yea, that's a dog thing, not a breed X thing.


I hear and read this all the time...about almost every breed. Wow, a dog that follows people OMG!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sandakat said:


> Well, they are semi mythical, just ask Toby. He KNOWS he's God's gift to humankind.
> 
> All kidding aside, what Remaru says is very true. So many people seem to believe that they're all Lassie. I guess they could potentially be like Lassie, but you have to put in the work you'd put into ANY dog, regardless of the breed. The breed has some wonderful traits that makes them great family dogs, but I've also met scared, yippy, stubborn and disobedient collies. They are still DOGS.


Agreed, what they dont know is "lassie" (who was actually a "laddie") was a TRAINED dog who had hours upon hours of training under its belt. That and the beauty of editing, they dont know how many takes it took to make one movie (hint, its a LOT.).



sclevenger said:


> I have to agree with you on the later. When I was researching collies it got hard to actually find what they were like because everyone is in such a fantasy world. I actually had a post removed because I asked about intelligence, biddability and the such due to my uncle, many years ago bred them(well his wife) and he said he didn't find them to be all that "bright" It started a huge fight, because how dare anyone say anything less than the best. It got right down nasty, name calling to myself and my family, and finally 1 owner said... guys, we all love our collies but let's be realistic, her uncle is kinda right, she went on to say about the intelligence and training compared to her German Shepherd..... well post was shut down. Soon after I got off my collie kick.


Well, compared to an aussie / MAS, sure they would be kind of .. "not bright" hahaha. Not saying they arent smart, but they just dont have that sharpness an aussie or MAS does.



Willowy said:


> Honestly, I think most if not all breeds have a lot of wackos among their fans. Or at least on the internet . Rottweilers and pit bulls, it's all a bunch of macho "my dog can kill your dog, and/or any intruders, and OF COURSE they know the difference between a bad guy and the UPS guy" stuff, with gentler breeds you get the "my pookie snookums is perfect" kind of people.


LMAO I havent met ONE pittie or rottie owner who is the way you explain, seriously. Sure I am sure there are people like that out there, but I dont think they represent the majority of pittie or rottie owners.

The most fanatical I have come across are ... BC owners, especially sport BC owners, they think their breed is god's gift to agility and no other breed can compare. Now I know that folks are going to say that every breed's enthusiasts are like that, but to me it just seems like they are a bit ... worse I guess LOL.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

It's either "my breed is so wonderful, they are the most wonderfullest and special and poop rainbows"

or

"only super hardcore people can own my breed because they breathe fire and will eat your unborn children"


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Getting a bit more back on track  I am also going to be getting Sterling tested for the MDR1 gene and treating him as M/M and as someone who is interested in a dog with a high chance of MDR1 M/M, I would ask the breeders if the parents were tested, and if they come back with "What's MDR1?" you RUN LIKE HECK!


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

*QUOTE* It's either "my breed is so wonderful, they are the most wonderfullest and special and poop rainbows" (Whippets!)

or

"only super hardcore people can own my breed because they breathe fire and will eat your unborn children" (Malinois!) *QUOTE*

Added my 2 cents


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Agreed, what they dont know is "lassie" (who was actually a "laddie") was a TRAINED dog who had hours upon hours of training under its belt. That and the beauty of editing, they dont know how many takes it took to make one movie (hint, its a LOT.).
> 
> 
> 
> Well, compared to an aussie / MAS, sure they would be kind of .. "not bright" hahaha. Not saying they arent smart, but they just dont have that sharpness an aussie or MAS does.


Lol. Well that was exactly my point. I've owned Aussies. So I was concerned/curious as the difference in training would be.... never did get an answer, as like I said they shut my post down, and then I got a delightful message from the admin about it. Seriously, everyone lost their damn mind because I was inclined to believe they may be slightly harder to train.... apparently not, they know exactly what you want with juat a single thought.... just like Lassie


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

jade5280 said:


> I hear and read this all the time...about almost every breed. Wow, a dog that follows people OMG!


I remember reading that about Welshies and I was like "Wait, there are dogs that *don't* follow you into the bathroom? Because that's what this is implying"


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> I remember reading that about Welshies and I was like "Wait, there are dogs that *don't* follow you into the bathroom? Because that's what this is implying"


I kinda feel they are just trying to say how velcro a breed is. I mean, aren't breeds known to me more of a "bathroom attendant" than others.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

sclevenger said:


> I kinda feel they are just trying to say how velcro a breed is. I mean, aren't breeds known to me more of a "bathroom attendant" than others.


Yeah, I guess I've known dogs who don't follow their owners to the bathroom, but those are more rare than not. But people love to bring up the phrase "you'll never go to the bathroom alone again once you have an XYZ breed!"


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

sclevenger said:


> Agreed. But it was really hard to learn about a breeds training when all I got was stories of the dogs lassie like heroics. No joke.
> 
> There's the other side of pit owners too..... the, pits are so cuddly and perfect, they are little Lassies or golden retrievers and require no additional training or socalization. Just perfect.





sassafras said:


> Yea there's a lot of special snowflake breed deification out there. Half the time it's like... stuff literally every dog I've ever had has done.
> 
> Not that breeds don't have traits. But stuff like "they follow you to the bathroom!" Yea, that's a dog thing, not a breed X thing.





elrohwen said:


> It's either "my breed is so wonderful, they are the most wonderfullest and special and poop rainbows"
> 
> or
> 
> "only super hardcore people can own my breed because they breathe fire and will eat your unborn children"


Yes, this drives me absolutely crazy. I think what really put me over the edge on that particular group was just how out of touch with reality they were. Either they were sort of putting on a show for the FB group (I truly hope so) or over half of those people really shouldn't own dogs because they have no clue how to manage even the most basic of dog ownership. I mean really "oh collie puppies don't need training, they come home perfect" type crap. "Oh you can trust a collie with a baby, they love all children" WHAT!!!! I also wasn't thrilled with the hatred towards other breeds (typically bully breeds).

Yes breeds have traits, it is good to have some idea of the traits you are working with and I totally get just really loving your chosen breed but some people seem to live in la la land. I agree you see it with other groups. It turned me off the idea of joining breed groups/pages to learn more about the breeds I'm considering for my next SD.



sclevenger said:


> Lol. Well that was exactly my point. I've owned Aussies. So I was concerned/curious as the difference in training would be.... never did get an answer, as like I said they shut my post down, and then I got a delightful message from the admin about it. Seriously, everyone lost their damn mind because I was inclined to believe they may be slightly harder to train.... apparently not, they know exactly what you want with juat a single thought.... just like Lassie


I do love collies. I wouldn't have jumped at the chance to work with a collie mix if I didn't. However I agree it is frustrating when you can't wade through the "fandom" stuff to get any real information. It really turned me off of breed groups. I will say the Great Pyrenees group I belong to is not like that, there are a couple of people who do seem to think their dogs are essentially giant white Golden Retrievers but most of the group is pretty honest with themselves and others about what they are working with. The same is true on the two LGD groups I'm a member of (obviously LGD is a type of dog not a breed). Some of the people have that macho, no one can handle these dogs, type thing going but largely it is just talk about how to raise and train LGD breeds, a lot of the other stuff gets shut down pretty fast (the posturing type stuff).


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Yeah, I guess I've known dogs who don't follow their owners to the bathroom, but those are more rare than not. But people love to bring up the phrase "you'll never go to the bathroom alone again once you have an XYZ breed!"


Ya i get what you guys are saying, and I've seen it with a lot of breeds. But I think the difference I've seen is the dog who follow you to the bathroom and say.... oh, your not doing interesting.... and then there's the dog, that is ... well this is fun, if I could just squeeze in between your legs here... lol.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Willowy said:


> Honestly, I think most if not all breeds have a lot of wackos among their fans. Or at least on the internet . Rottweilers and pit bulls, it's all a bunch of macho "my dog can kill your dog, and/or any intruders, and OF COURSE they know the difference between a bad guy and the UPS guy" stuff, with gentler breeds you get the "my pookie snookums is perfect" kind of people.


But Mia IS perfect. Most perfectest perfect creature ever. 



elrohwen said:


> It's either "my breed is so wonderful, they are the most wonderfullest and special and poop rainbows"
> 
> or
> 
> "only super hardcore people can own my breed because they breathe fire and will eat your unborn children"


Hank is supposedly half 'easy breed' (rat terrier or chi depending on if you want Togo with majority vote or DNA) an half 'hard breed' (ACD in both popular opinion and DNA). We don't know what I do with ourselves. 

No but really Mia is perfect


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I will say I have seen a degree of velcroness. Actually my herders (pure herders not counting Hank) have been the most independent. The Shelties never followed you to the bathroom and refused to sleep with you. Often they'd be off sleeping in a room by themselves. My papillons would chose to meld into me if possible. Hank is between the two. Not as clingy as the paps (as in Hank seems to have more purpose to him whereas the paps tuly believe they exist to Be With Me). But he wants to cuddle and follows me to the bathroom.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> It's either "my breed is so wonderful, they are the most wonderfullest and special and poop rainbows"
> 
> or
> 
> "only super hardcore people can own my breed because they breathe fire and will eat your unborn children"


No breed is perfect obviously but I think said breed enthusiasts see things through rose colored glasses when they make that kind of statement, everyone does it because we cant help it, our breeds are awesome LOL.

About the "hard core" thing, no there are some people I can think of that I do NOT want owning a "hard core" breed, and I am sorry if that offends people but it is true. Some people have no business owning. Lincoln is easy for me, because he is a high energy dog, and I am a high energy person, so our "need" to do something is usually in sync. 

I also remember a while back that folks told me I did not have what it took to own a large mollassar? So the "special snowflake" adage doesnt apply to them, then?



sclevenger said:


> Lol. Well that was exactly my point. I've owned Aussies. So I was concerned/curious as the difference in training would be.... never did get an answer, as like I said they shut my post down, and then I got a delightful message from the admin about it. Seriously, everyone lost their damn mind because I was inclined to believe they may be slightly harder to train.... apparently not, they know exactly what you want with juat a single thought.... just like Lassie





sclevenger said:


> Ya i get what you guys are saying, and I've seen it with a lot of breeds. But I think the difference I've seen is the dog who follow you to the bathroom and say.... oh, your not doing interesting.... *and then there's the dog, that is ... well this is fun, if I could just squeeze in between your legs here... lol.*


Haha, you have just described my existence with my dog.



Laurelin said:


> I will say I have seen a degree of velcroness. Actually my herders (pure herders not counting Hank) have been the most independent. The Shelties never followed you to the bathroom and refused to sleep with you. Often they'd be off sleeping in a room by themselves. My papillons would chose to meld into me if possible. Hank is between the two. Not as clingy as the paps (as in Hank seems to have more purpose to him whereas the paps tuly believe they exist to Be With Me). But he wants to cuddle and follows me to the bathroom.


Lincoln for the most part is content to say, lie on the floor in front of the door while I am on the couch, or in his crate while I am on the bed (I tried to allow him in bed, but my allergies wouldnt let me) he will lie on the couch for a bit here and there but I think he gets hot, because even by himself he wont stay on there long.

He tries to follow me to the bathroom, but I shut the door on him, I like my privacy, thanks LOL.


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## DogTheGreat (Jul 9, 2015)

sclevenger said:


> Ya i get what you guys are saying, and I've seen it with a lot of breeds. But I think the difference I've seen is the dog who follow you to the bathroom and say.... oh, your not doing interesting.... and then there's the dog, that is ... well this is fun, if I could just squeeze in between your legs here... lol.


"Oh you want me to jump up and give you a hug/kiss? Yeah this seems like prime hugging time"


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

DogTheGreat said:


> "Oh you want me to jump up and give you a hug/kiss? Yeah this seems like prime hugging time"


Yep, "Oh are you working on the computer? too bad PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!" LOL


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yep, "Oh are you working on the computer? too bad PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!" LOL


Yep. This has been my life with every Aussie I've owned. Every single one.

My beagles I had growing up , ya they followed you, but once they realized you weren't doing anything that I volved food, they went back to their own thing.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

Sterling loves to play with his toys ON me. We'll be tugging and he'll be sitting in my lap as he tugs on it, or crawling over me. He's gotta be touching me when we're playing.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

missc89 said:


> Sterling loves to play with his toys ON me. We'll be tugging and he'll be sitting in my lap as he tugs on it, or crawling over me. He's gotta be touching me when we're playing.


hahaha yep, Lincoln always has to be touching me, too, or at some point in the day, has to touch me.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

None of my dogs are dogs who will follow me to the bathroom. None of my dogs pester me while I'm at the computer. They'll all stay in the room I'm in, Kylie and Molly hang around under my desk/at my feet, they all follow me from room to room, and most of them (sans Molly) will check on me if I'm in the bathroom long, but that's as far as it goes. Well, they'll come running if I go toward the front door or kitchen and if I'm sitting on the couch most all of them will hop up for love, because I'm clearly available then.

And I'm not sorry. I work from my computer during the day so they need to not be pains in the butt. 

I wish Molly was a BIT more into cuddling and physical affection, and willing to sleep with me, but I *do not* like dogs who pester me for attention. I'm sure my strong preference for that has some impact on them not being cling-ons.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> None of my dogs are dogs who will follow me to the bathroom. None of my dogs pester me while I'm at the computer. They'll all stay in the room I'm in, Kylie and Molly hang around under my desk/at my feet, they all follow me from room to room, and most of them (sans Molly) will check on me if I'm in the bathroom long, but that's as far as it goes. Well, they'll come running if I go toward the front door or kitchen and if I'm sitting on the couch most all of them will hop up for love, because I'm clearly available then.
> 
> And I'm not sorry. I work from my computer during the day so they need to not be pains in the butt.
> 
> I wish Molly was a BIT more into cuddling and physical affection, and willing to sleep with me, but I *do not* like dogs who pester me for attention. I'm sure my strong preference for that has some impact on them not being cling-ons.


Oops, Lincoln does all of this and its so cute that I dont stop it lmao.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I also remember a while back that folks told me I did not have what it took to own a large mollassar? So the "special snowflake" adage doesnt apply to them, then?


There's a difference between "only the most hardcore awesome people can own my breed" and "this breed wouldn't be suitable for this specific person." I don't think you have to be a special snowflake to own an Alaskan Klee Kai, for example, but I've told some specific people that the breed wasn't right for them (they ended up going with a bully breed mix -- much better for their three kids to play with).

$1800 doesn't seem crazy to me, although I don't have a frame of reference for larger breeds. Papillons are around $1500 here and AKK start at around $2000 now. Both of those breeds have small litters, though, and the prices also vary by location. AKK in California are closer to $3000, which is nuts.

I'm sorry for that breeder's loss. Losing almost all of her dogs must have been heartbreaking. I wouldn't return emails in her place, either.


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

Random aside, but it stuck out to me... Someone mentioned the person that writes like their dog? AAAAAGGGHHHHH that is annoying as all get-out! (My mommy likes to take me for long walks and gives me tummy rubs...) GAG

Also this thread makes me feel a lot better about what I paid for my pup!!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

While Welshies cost $1500-1700, I only paid $500 for the two combined. Hazel was my stud fee and there were some special circumstances with Watson. But I basically got them cheaper because I was willing to put in all of the money and work involved in training, showing, and health testing. It would have been cheaper to just buy both for full price and stay at home. lol


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

TGKvr said:


> Random aside, but it stuck out to me... Someone mentioned the person that writes like their dog? AAAAAGGGHHHHH that is annoying as all get-out! (My mommy likes to take me for long walks and gives me tummy rubs...) GAG


I itch to report those posts, honestly. (I don't, because our mods are overworked as it is, but seriously.) No, your dog is not posting on the effing internet, stop it. Tell me, as a human, what's going on, because I'm not parsing my way through cutesy-wootsy "I'm a puppy and I wuv my mommy!" postings to try and figure that one out. And I call myself "mama" as in "mama just needs to wipe your feet" or "who's mama's clever boy!"


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

TGKvr said:


> Random aside, but it stuck out to me... Someone mentioned the person that writes like their dog? AAAAAGGGHHHHH that is annoying as all get-out! (My mommy likes to take me for long walks and gives me tummy rubs...) GAG


A friend had a baby in January and 90% of her FB posts since then have been written in the voice of her baby. Ok, I love hearing about your kid, I like baby pictures, but for the love of Dog stop pretending he's writing the posts!!!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> There's a difference between "only the most hardcore awesome people can own my breed" and "this breed wouldn't be suitable for this specific person." I don't think you have to be a special snowflake to own an Alaskan Klee Kai, for example, but I've told some specific people that the breed wasn't right for them (they ended up going with a bully breed mix -- much better for their three kids to play with).


Right. And there's also a difference between "only the most hardcore awesome people can own my breed" and "are you sure you WANT to live with this breed?" There's no doubt in my mind that just about anyone COULD live with a malinois. There's also no doubt in my mind that a very small number of people, upon living with one, would actually WANT to and want to keep living with one for very long at all.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

My SIL's sister has a Facebook page for her baby, in which she writes in his voice. Um no.

I can't read posts in which pet owners are doing that either. My cat forum decided to have a separate subforum for "catspeak" and banned it in all other sections of the forum. I just don't click on that subforum. . .


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Amaryllis said:


> I itch to report those posts, honestly. (I don't, because our mods are overworked as it is, but seriously.) No, your dog is not posting on the effing internet, stop it. Tell me, as a human, what's going on, because I'm not parsing my way through cutesy-wootsy "I'm a puppy and I wuv my mommy!" postings to try and figure that one out. And I call myself "mama" as in "mama just needs to wipe your feet" or "who's mama's clever boy!"


I will occasionally caption a picture of one of the dogs with something like "Can I have your sandwich?" but the whole facebook posts in bad grammar/spelling that are supposed to be "written by the dog" drive me crazy. There are enough people who write completely unintelligible posts without adding to the madness by purposefully making your posts harder to read.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Remaru said:


> I will occasionally caption a picture of one of the dogs with something like "Can I have your sandwich?" but the whole facebook posts in bad grammar/spelling that are supposed to be "written by the dog" drive me crazy. There are enough people who write completely unintelligible posts without adding to the madness by purposefully making your posts harder to read.


I'm totally ok with it being from the dog or baby's point of view if it's funny/clever. My friend with the baby will just post a picture of the kid sitting by a teddy bear and write "My mommy says I'm so cute with my bear!" Uh, ok? Or you could just write in your own voice and say your kid is cute like a normal person. Lol


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## Finnbarr (Sep 22, 2014)

I have a smooth collie whom I adopted when she was 2. Granted, she did grow up in a show home amongst 6 or 7 other collies, so she had been very well-socialized before I got her. But for a dog who never had any formal obedience, she is so. Freaking. Easy. She is calm, steady, mild-mannered, and very biddable. However, her biddability is very different from what you might see in, say, a BC or Aussie. She has very low actual _drive_ to learn, but what makes her a great student is that she is so damn agreeable. Instead of looking at me with eager eyes as if to say, "Teach me, I want to learn! You want me to do that? OK, I'll do it! I love learning! Let's go and learn some more!" she says, "You want me to do that? Hm, why not? Sure, because I want what you want. I want to please you, so I will go along with what you want me to do, even if it does feel quite silly to me." It's been hard to proof her training because she gets so distracted. She doesn't have that intense, eye-contact, focused-on-the-owner thing that BCs and Aussies have going on. But this agreeable nature of collie has been really the best thing about her. It means she trusts me in new situations. And it makes recall pretty easy - she is content to leave interesting smells and come when called. And she takes very well to obedience class.

After getting to know more collie owners and their dogs, it appears that collies are a really easy, good breed to have for first-time owners. But they're not perfect, just like any other dog is not perfect. Bonnie follows me around everywhere, yes, but she can also be destructive, skittish, disloyal (she'd follow anyone home without a second thought), can have somewhat poor impulse control, and she likes to jump on people. She is very vocal and LOVES the sound of her own voice. Every dog needs work, and my dog is no exception; she is still a work in progress.


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## Finnbarr (Sep 22, 2014)

Remaru said:


> I will occasionally caption a picture of one of the dogs with something like "Can I have your sandwich?" but the whole facebook posts in bad grammar/spelling that are supposed to be "written by the dog" drive me crazy. There are enough people who write completely unintelligible posts without adding to the madness by purposefully making your posts harder to read.


Oh god, this drives me NUTS. Greyhound people are especially the worst at it! (Sorry greyhound people; I still do love you!) There was a time when I was seriously thinking of adopting a greyhound, so I frequented greytalk.com on a daily basis. But the threads that were written entirely in "dog speech" were a HUGE turn off. Here is an example of such speech:

"It's still Summer in in Californya and in most ob da other states too, butt one ob our frinds in Oh Canada saw sum ob da white snow stuff yesterday! It's stiil August, dat is just messed up!! Da West Coast is still bone dry and a lot ob it seems ro be on fire, I hope everybuddy stays safe."


Gah!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

sassafras said:


> Right. And there's also a difference between "only the most hardcore awesome people can own my breed" and "are you sure you WANT to live with this breed?" There's no doubt in my mind that just about anyone COULD live with a malinois. There's also no doubt in my mind that a very small number of people, upon living with one, would actually WANT to and want to keep living with one for very long at all.


I'm just going to follow you and Cran around today and agree with everything you say; it's okay, I'm sure we'll argue about something tomorrow.

But seriously, this and what Cran said.

There is a radical difference between saying an individual would be a horrible fit for a particular breed for reasons, and saying that it takes an 'elite' dog owner to own a breed. It isn't about 'elite' with any dog, including the large guardians. It's about having a lifestyle that fits the breed, and about a *willingness to get professional help*, take advice, listen, learn, and utilize a support network. It isn't about 'street cred' or experience with other breeds. 

Then there's definitely the element of 'do you actually want to', and the answer to that is often a resounding "NO". I'm not going to not tell someone if I think they're setting themselves up for a dog they aren't going to enjoy living with. Because enjoying living with the dog most of the time is sort of the whole point of owning a dog. But... thinking about this 'willingness to utilize professional help, listen, learn, and have a support network' is part of what it takes to live with some dogs.

So, really, for me that's the long and short of it. The match between owner and dog/proposed dog. 

And frankly, given how much you like Lincoln, Owned, and everything you say you love about him and how POLAR OPPOSITE that is from the large, serious, guardians, I'm pretttty confident in saying a large guardian would have been a terrible match.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Finnbarr said:


> Oh god, this drives me NUTS. Greyhound people are especially the worst at it! (Sorry greyhound people; I still do love you!) There was a time when I was seriously thinking of adopting a greyhound, so I frequented greytalk.com on a daily basis. But the threads that were written entirely in "dog speech" were a HUGE turn off. Here is an example of such speech:
> 
> "It's still Summer in in Californya and in most ob da other states too, butt one ob our frinds in Oh Canada saw sum ob da white snow stuff yesterday! It's stiil August, dat is just messed up!! Da West Coast is still bone dry and a lot ob it seems ro be on fire, I hope everybuddy stays safe."
> 
> ...


Just reading those few examples nearly gave me a headache. Brain cells....hurting.

Add: I'm so happy that "dog speech" is a rarity in this forum.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> My papillons would chose to meld into me if possible.


Someone said something about melding?


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

I have no patience for cutesy anything: cutesy dogspeak, kiddiespeak, catspeak, whatever. Just. Stop. It.

Ireth0, too bad for you. The dog is comfortable. End of story.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

ireth0 said:


> Someone said something about melding?


I think we're in agreement about velcro dogs! When I was freelancing for several months and working from home, the GSD/Dane I just lost was in physical contact with me for roughly 22 hours a day. He slept touching me, he laid on the couch next to me, he laid his head on my feet while I was at my computer desk, he walked with me through the house while touching my side. The only times we weren't in contact were when I was in the shower or when he was outside for bathroom breaks, eating or playing frisbee. 

The other three dogs I live with are nowhere near that physically demanding, and sometimes I feel pretty lost without my giant 130 lb. idiot tripping me constantly and drooling all over my feet. My preference is to have dogs who at least want to be in the same room as me


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

In regards to testing on websites, my Chows' breeder has a horribly non updated website. But I took it upon myself to do really easy footwork and note all of the testing they had on the OFA site. Took me all of about 4 minutes.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Sandakat said:


> I have no patience for cutesy anything: cutesy dogspeak, kiddiespeak, catspeak, whatever. Just. Stop. It.


 Mew Mew meow. Ow mew meow! 

Guess what I just said!? Translates to: Hi mi iz catz. I eatz da kitn kaboodlz!


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## DogTheGreat (Jul 9, 2015)

Remaru said:


> I will occasionally caption a picture of one of the dogs with something like "Can I have your sandwich?" but the whole facebook posts in bad grammar/spelling that are supposed to be "written by the dog" drive me crazy. There are enough people who write completely unintelligible posts without adding to the madness by purposefully making your posts harder to read.



Oh no, I caption my dog all of the time and if we're around other people I'll sometimes speak for her like "Shae says she'll take it if you don't want it" jokingly, but yeah I don't understand the people that write entire posts as their dog. I'm so thankful it doesn't really happen on this forum because it's pretty common other places. I've even come across people asking for medical advice/opinions prior to seeing the vet and they're still writing as their dog to describe the problems.



Finnbarr said:


> "It's still Summer in in Californya and in most ob da other states too, butt one ob our frinds in Oh Canada saw sum ob da white snow stuff yesterday! It's stiil August, dat is just messed up!! Da West Coast is still bone dry and a lot ob it seems ro be on fire, I hope everybuddy stays safe."
> 
> 
> Gah!


yeah... cringe.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I narrate Toby and the cats... Like if someone is talking to him I tend to just do it, automatically.. :/ lol

Toby has a FB page too and I tend to speak for him on there as well, but I still write like a normal human being who knows english. He has a few pages that he's friends with and sometimes he'll get stuff on his timeline or newsfeed like: "pwease bisitz me furiendz, tellz demz me sentya" and it is enough to make me feel like throwing my monitor. I can't stand the 'pet talk' - why can't our pets just speak the language properly? They have tongues, and teeth, and mouths, and lips... why must they ALL have speech impediments or whatever that is that you are trying to relay..... 

Anyway, I tend to 'Unlike' a page when they speak like that.... because I just can't take it. 



Anywho... carry on


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## Ilovedogs56 (Apr 12, 2015)

Exactly! Some are so bad that I can't even read them. "Hai geyz me owernarz taked meh ta patsmert yestardey! Itz pawseme dere! Yu geyz shewd tri it!" That hurt my brain.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

So I go to work for 9 hours and come home to this LOL it made me smile and I needed that  thank you everyone


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

kcomstoc said:


> So I go to work for 9 hours and come home to this LOL it made me smile and I needed that  thank you everyone


Ya.. we may have got a little off topic while you were gone.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

sclevenger said:


> Ya.. we may have got a little off topic while you were gone.


That's alright  if anyone wants to know the IA breeder I'll PM you


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> There is a radical difference between saying an individual would be a horrible fit for a particular breed for reasons, and saying that it takes an 'elite' dog owner to own a breed. It isn't about 'elite' with any dog, including the large guardians. It's about having a lifestyle that fits the breed, and about a *willingness to get professional help*, take advice, listen, learn, and utilize a support network. It isn't about 'street cred' or experience with other breeds.


THIS so much. I encounter this a LOT in my breed... the registry wars I spoke of earlier are really terrible at this. Apparently if I don't do protection work, train for catch or bite work or take the BST test with my dog, I shouldn't have her according to the "main" registry. They really frown on people who want to have these dogs as family pets instead of working dogs, and also really slam people for picking out puppies based on colors - well at a few weeks old, how the heck are you going to decide between several puppies in the first place? In a litter, they all come from the same line - they mostly have similar potential which you can see more and more as they grow. But I have no shame in admitting that I fell for my particular puppy because of her fawn merle coloring and her baby blue eyes - that's all I had to go on at 8 weeks old. And I don't plan to participate in the registry shows, but I do plan to work my dog all the same, in my own space and time. There are breeders that won't sell to anyone that doesn't plan to train in bite work... which, ok, that's their prerogative. But to make the general statement that unless you are X kind of person you don't deserve to have these dogs is just ridiculous. Then they shame the people that have discovered how awesome the breed is all around, and choose to bring that dog into their homes as a companion because it fits with their lifestyle.

**ETA - wanted to clarify that I know, of course, that health and temperament come first over any sort of color choices... but factoring in color when picking your pup is not wrong or shameful.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

I think I fall somewhere in the middle of the "this dog isn't right for you" and "only certain people should own this breed" argument. I think it's because I've seen a lot of frustrated and unsuccessful dog owners who chose their breed based on cuteness or that they saw it on tv or whatever reason and they feel like they have a wild animal in their house.

I'd rather steer someone who I know isn't going to meet the exercise requirements of a husky or GSD towards a more suitable breed than have another stir-crazy, pent up husky in the world. I'm a really big fan of people who give their dogs jobs, whether it be training every day or hiking, whatever anyone can think of really, and when I hear someone who just gets a big working/herding as a pet who doesn't get to have a "job" I get really worried about the dogs state of mind.

It's something I should really work on, I don't want to be that judgmental, but I totally get where it comes from.


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

TSTrainer said:


> I'm a really big fan of people who give their dogs jobs, *whether it be training every day or hiking, whatever anyone can think of really,* and when I hear someone who just gets a big working/herding as a pet who doesn't get to have a "job" I get really worried about the dogs state of mind.


Yeah but this is kind of my point. I totally agree that working dog breeds should have jobs to do - (otherwise you may end up with a crazy dog with no where to spend their energy) but to shame me for choosing a different "job" than what the breed was originally intended for is just silly. For example... I'm not going hog catching. Nope, never. That's what my breed was originally known for - catch dogs. Still, the overall temperament and activity levels of these dogs are what drew me in... I plan to do some basic agility just for fun, but also to train for weight pulling as I want her to eventually help me on the farm by pulling a cart. As a working dog breed, I think this fills the need for her to have something to do that engages both her mental capacity as well as her physical strengths. (Plus all the hiking we do, which is a lot) I don't think I should be shamed for going that route vs. IPO for example. Yet the main registry blatantly belittles those of us that choose to do different things like the show ring, search and rescue, or agility. Because if you have this kind of a bulldog, then OBVIOUSLY they need to be full on protection dogs and if you don't own a bite sleeve then you clearly don't know what you're doing and don't deserve to own this breed at all. 

It's just the elitist point of view that certain breeders/registries have very specific ideas of what they consider to be the right kind of owner that gets on my nerves. I get that a responsible breeder wants to see their dogs excel and be satisfied both mentally and physically, but there are many different ways of doing so.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I really don't like the whole 'But this is a WORKING breed!!!!' I mean I get where it comes from. There are some breeds that seem to really need structured outlets based on my experience. But I see tons of individuals of these breeds not having 'jobs' and being fine, happy dogs. Border collies for example, I am around a lot, and the ones I know through agility mostly are dogs I'd say need structured outlets. But that said the breed is so popular here I see them all the time and know people who don't really DO anything with their dogs and they're still happy with their BCs as pets. You could flip that and put ACDs or Aussies there too. Aussies are probably one of THE most common breeds here as pet dogs. I will say ACDs often end up in shelters maybe more than they should in this area but they are still very common 'just pets'. Three of my coworkers have purebred ACDs that they rarely walk or do anything with and while that's not the lifestyle *I'd* want for my dogs they seem happy and adjusted dogs. 

So... it's not always universally true? I suppose that's what I mean.

And then I always fall back on the fact that the most intelligent, conniving, and busy dog I've ever owned is a TOY breed.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

There are certain hunting breeders, often in certain breeds (sometimes the more rare ones, like munsterlanders) who will only sell to hunting homes. I get it, you want to prove your dogs on the field. But those dogs would be just as happy in an active home, running around and maybe playing agility or something. If you can find enough hunters to buy all of your puppies then you can do what you want, but I hate the attitude of "only people who hunt can buy XYZ breed". Or worse, that those dogs would only potentially be happy in a home where they can hunt.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Not being universally true is kind of where I fall.

I think that anyone who gets any breed of dog that isn't a fully adult, mature, known entity, needs to be prepared to up their game and get the dog some kind of structured outlet, because it can happen in any breed. I think it's *more* likely to happen in some breeds than others (individuals are individuals but you can make some generalities about breeds, while recognizing that execptions exist and that those generalities are a range) but I still don't think any of that has a blasted thing to do with the 'skillz' of the potential owner, or their experience. Maybe a little bit, because they're more prepared with what might be entailed, but I still think the biggest factor is fit between owner and dog. 

And that's equally true if the dog in question is a Mal or a Basset Hound.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

I'm definitely guilty of the same kind of 'dogspeak' as BostonBullMama. Sterling has his own facebook page and he refers to me as his 'mom' but I use proper English and grammar... I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with giving your pet a facebook page, I am following many, but they're normal people who spell things properly and didn't feel like flooding their friends' FB pages with constant updates of their pets so they gave them their own page.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

missc89 said:


> I'm definitely guilty of the same kind of 'dogspeak' as BostonBullMama. Sterling has his own facebook page and he refers to me as his 'mom' but I use proper English and grammar... I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with giving your pet a facebook page, I am following many, but they're normal people who spell things properly and didn't feel like flooding their friends' FB pages with constant updates of their pets so they gave them their own page.


I set up one for my bunny years ago, mostly so some friends could see pictures. He has about 350 likes now, and gets more every week even though I haven't posted to it since 2011. lol


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

The handful of DFers who have me on FB know I almost never post anything dog related there. I'd probably do well to create a FB page for animal related things. Not as them/with them as people, but a crew. 

...In fact I think I'm going to go do that.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

That's a great idea CptJack!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I just post all of my dog stuff to my main page. Most of my friends are dog/animal people anyway, or old high school/college friends who can block my feed if they want.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I have a FB page for mushing stuff but I post craptons of pictures of my dogs on my personal page anyway, aheheh.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Ya i flood my Facebook with dog pictures, or at least I did. And I will again with berner puppy squishy cuteness. But, umm ya i too don't talk in doggie woggie talk.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

sclevenger said:


> Ya i flood my Facebook with dog pictures, or at least I did. And I will again with berner puppy squishy cuteness. But, umm ya i too don't talk in doggie woggie talk.


I don't even like calling myself Sterling's "mom" IRL - I only ever really do it on his FB page :/ like... no, I didn't give birth to him, but I guess you can call me his adoptive mom if you REALLY need to label me something....


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I stopped posting much of anything to my FB page because I'm pretty sure nobody wants to see millions of pictures of my dogs. Maybe I'll make a separate page for them too.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

jade5280 said:


> I stopped posting much of anything to my FB page because I'm pretty sure nobody wants to see millions of pictures of my dogs. Maybe I'll make a separate page for them too.


Yeah. My family emphatically does not care. They're not opposed, but they're not really 'into it'. And I don't really want to flood DF people with my real life, either. So this should work out for me, I think.


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## missc89 (Jan 20, 2015)

I would obsessively be on both of your respective pages every day so.... I love dogs..


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Why don't we have a DF facebook page? Where we can flood each other with pictures??


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

sclevenger said:


> Why don't we have a DF facebook page? Where we can flood each other with pictures??


I think there is a DF facebook page? I could be wrong though...


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

When I was looking into getting a dog, I was shamed by a lot of family and friends over my choice of breed - GSD. Working breed, they said. You'll break it's psyche unless you do protection work and train 8 hours a day, they said. Spare the poor Shepherd from mental anguish and get a spaniel instead, they said. Never get an adult - they'll never love you because you didn't raise them, they said. 

It was the most frustrating thing. 
Sure all those things can be true (except the never loving you thing). But come on people, LINES exist and vary. Individuals vary. 

I'm doing a lot more with my dog than I thought I'd be, but that's why I did the research and got a mellow, low-energy adult individual in a breed known for needing to use it's brain.

Maybe I am delusional, but I find it to be almost insulting when someone insinuates that all dogs in a breed are identical and all have needs that a healthy adult with a relatively free schedule is incapable of meeting.


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

jade5280 said:


> I think there is a DF facebook page? I could be wrong though...


Really? Our we using it? Lol.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Maybe I was wrong because I can't find it anywhere....


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

jade5280 said:


> Maybe I was wrong because I can't find it anywhere....


Oh darn. I think it would be cool. To share photos and such with each other outside of the forum. Which I love for discussions but when it comes to photos I find frustrating especially since I'm mobile only now.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> I'm totally ok with it being from the dog or baby's point of view if it's funny/clever. My friend with the baby will just post a picture of the kid sitting by a teddy bear and write "My mommy says I'm so cute with my bear!" Uh, ok? Or you could just write in your own voice and say your kid is cute like a normal person. Lol


Some baby pics from people are fine, but some folks go crazy with it, when they start doing that, I hit the "unfollow" button. 



CptJack said:


> I'm just going to follow you and Cran around today and agree with everything you say; it's okay, I'm sure we'll argue about something tomorrow.
> 
> But seriously, this and what Cran said.
> 
> ...


Dog owner skills play a HUGE part in whether someone has what it takes to own a certain breed. my OH for example, wanted a malinois, he has dog experience, has raised and owned dogs for most of his life, but would he be able to deal with a mal? Well, he did his research and came to the conclusion that they were not the dog for him.



BostonBullMama said:


> I narrate Toby and the cats... Like if someone is talking to him I tend to just do it, automatically.. :/ lol
> 
> Toby has a FB page too and I tend to speak for him on there as well, but I still write like a normal human being who knows english. He has a few pages that he's friends with and sometimes he'll get stuff on his timeline or newsfeed like: "pwease bisitz me furiendz, tellz demz me sentya" and it is enough to make me feel like throwing my monitor. I can't stand the 'pet talk' - why can't our pets just speak the language properly? They have tongues, and teeth, and mouths, and lips... why must they ALL have speech impediments or whatever that is that you are trying to relay.....
> 
> ...


I talk for my dog all the time, but its in normal human speak, and yeah, my dog is plenty smart and I dont think if he would talk, he would have a speech impediment lmao.



elrohwen said:


> A friend had a baby in January and 90% of her FB posts since then have been written in the voice of her baby. Ok, I love hearing about your kid, I like baby pictures, but for the love of Dog stop pretending he's writing the posts!!!


NO! unfollow ... LOL. I dont know if its "mommy brain" (so they call it) or what but people tend to go a little .... wacko when they have a kid.



elrohwen said:


> I just post all of my dog stuff to my main page. Most of my friends are dog/animal people anyway, or old high school/college friends who can block my feed if they want.


This is how I think, too. dont like all the pics of my dog? too bad, you know where the unfollow button is.



missc89 said:


> I would obsessively be on both of your respective pages every day so.... I love dogs..


Haha I am guilty as well ... spam my news feed all you want,I was just going to say I dont think you post ENOUGH pics of Sterling!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

There is a DF FB group. You guys should join


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> There is a DF FB group. You guys should join


Oh cool. What's it under?


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## Alla (Mar 25, 2015)

sclevenger said:


> Oh cool. What's it under?


https://www.facebook.com/groups/346214675451427/

Here


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sclevenger said:


> Oh cool. What's it under?


yay! I hope to see many more pics of your awesome aussie!!!!!!


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

Awesome. I sent a join request. 

Owned byACDS are you talking to me or Sterlings "mama" lol.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sclevenger said:


> Awesome. I sent a join request.
> 
> Owned byACDS are you talking to me or Sterlings "mama" lol.


You! I love the merle aussies!


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

How should I go about contacting this new breeder? Should I tell her why I'm looking for a new breeder? Should I just start over and say I'm looking for a breeder and found them?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

kcomstoc said:


> How should I go about contacting this new breeder? Should I tell her why I'm looking for a new breeder? Should I just start over and say I'm looking for a breeder and found them?


I would be honest, I have told breeders before that I didnt think their brand of business was for me (not in a rude or snarky way, but being honest). I dont like a "helicopter breeder" once I pay for the dog, it's mine. All the checking up on me they did during the buying process should have been sufficient. I can understandd wanting the dog to not be tied ouyt on a chain all day and all that, but some require you feed a certain supplement for the first 2 years of the dogs life, or feed a certain food (or certain QUALITY of food) no just ... no. That is where I draw the line.

In short, a good breeder should be understanding of your decisions.


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## Ilovedogs56 (Apr 12, 2015)

Yeah, if she gets mad, run. Fast.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

I would just contact them as normal, and maybe throw something in like: I had been in contact with another breeder but they had some tragic circumstances? Maybe that's something better left during a phone conversation and not on an initial e-mail type of thing.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I would just contact them as normal, and maybe throw something in like: I had been in contact with another breeder but they had some tragic circumstances? Maybe that's something better left during a phone conversation and not on an initial e-mail type of thing.


Yea if they ask if I've contacted another breeder then I'll tell them what you said that they had a tragic circumstance and they wouldn't be breeding for awhile...thanks guys


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

kcomstoc said:


> Yea if they ask if I've contacted another breeder then I'll tell them what you said that they had a tragic circumstance and they wouldn't be breeding for awhile...thanks guys


How did contacting the new breeder go? I was just thinking about you for some reason, probably because my daughter told me this morning how a collie and bernese mountain tain dog are different lol. Like a 10 minute conversation with my 4 year old on this.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

sclevenger said:


> How did contacting the new breeder go? I was just thinking about you for some reason, probably because my daughter told me this morning how a collie and bernese mountain tain dog are different lol. Like a 10 minute conversation with my 4 year old on this.


I'm holding off on contacting the breeder because we have to find out if my SO passed his NCLEX test or not, if not we have to wait another year anyway


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

kcomstoc said:


> I'm holding off on contacting the breeder because we have to find out if my SO passed his NCLEX test or not, if not we have to wait another year anyway


Oh well that makes sense. Mind PMING me the breeder your thinking about. As much as I think collies aren't right for me, I have a fascination with them lol.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

kcomstoc said:


> I'm holding off on contacting the breeder because we have to find out if my SO passed his NCLEX test or not, if not we have to wait another year anyway


Boo with waiting ... I have to wait for fall/ winter 2016 for mine


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Boo with waiting ... I have to wait for fall/ winter 2016 for mine


Yea it's a drag, but what are you gonna do? I wouldn't want to get the puppy if I couldn't take care of him the way I would want to


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

I missed the whole start of you deciding you wanted a collie so maybe this has been answered. Are you definitely looking to buy a pup or have you thought about rescue? Unfortunately down here, there are bunches of collies in rescue.

I had always thought that I wanted to try a herding instinct with my rescue, Kona. I've shared facebook posts about livestock ivermectin but reading this story makes it hit home even more. 

Oh, and I don't have the typical Lassie. I have the what will YOU do for ME? type of dog.


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## Sandakat (Mar 7, 2015)

beardiedawg said:


> Oh, and I don't have the typical Lassie. I have the what will YOU do for ME? type of dog.


Toby is like that. He feels that he should just show up and be adored. Of course, he's usually right. And when it's needed, he can be a love bug.

If you can, definitely have Kona's herding instinct tested. It's pretty amazing. They turn into a whole different dog. I took Toby when he was about 3 to get his done. I couldn't believe my big, lazy dog was so focused and energetic. He was so into it, and so good at it! Cameron, on the other hand, was just having fun chasing sheep and barking. He did have a great time, though.


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

Kona has high prey drive. The first time she saw a horse through a fence, she tried to bit the nose. She would definitely chase them, it would be a matter of stopping before she grabbed one. Looking at some of the sites, I might need to get an IPL number for her to do it. I love how they all have the giant clauses holding themselves harmless but that you have to pay for the injured livestock. I'm curious if there are any regulations about worming the test animals. I'm sure there are many dogs competing with M/M or M/N. I'd have to find out about that first since Kona is M/M.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

I'll answer your question anyway  the truth is yes I would love to rescue but I've wanted a puppy for the past 8 years and I really want to get one from a breeder first because then I KNOW for a fact that this dog is going to last *little chance of health problems, sometimes with rescues you don't get that lucky*. I will probably rescue a rough collie but not for my first one. I already have a dog that's "what are you going to do for me" he's a shiba inu so I'm pretty used to stubborn dogs but at least a rough collie will be more biddable and want to pay attention to you lol


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

Fair enough on the puppy part. Our dog park has the friendliest Shiba I've ever seen. If I didn't know any better, I'd want one for myself!


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

beardiedawg said:


> Fair enough on the puppy part. Our dog park has the friendliest Shiba I've ever seen. If I didn't know any better, I'd want one for myself!


Oh no he's very friendly to everyone, children, elderly people, toddlers anyone really....he's very chill *he's also 9 years old* we had a slight problem with dog selective-ness but it's gotten a LOT better from when we first got him. He was kinda a rescue...if you want to search for his original thread *it might be his picture thread* about how I got him


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