# What's the fuss about grain free?



## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

When I go shopping for dogfood I see more and more bags, usually $10 more for the big bag, that advertise being grain free. My science reading tells me that they've found domestic dogs are endowed with the enzymes required to digest starch .. . I have seen various rice > wheat > corn studies (in terms of digestibility) but haven't seen anything to say potatoes or sweet potatoes are preferable to rice or other grains. 

Can anyone tell me why grain free is worth the extra $?


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

I have no choice. Royce is allergic to grains and has a mild allergy to chicken formulas as well. 

I did enjoy the wellness grain formula though for our Sheltie.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I dunno, in my case the fuss is that my youngest dog gets explosive diarrhea if he eats grain and one girl who gets super fat if she eats a lot of carbs, and one who is really not into food and won't eat much volume wise, so he needs most of his food to be protein/fat to keep from getting SKINNY. So, given that 3 of my 5 do better with grain free for radically different reasons... I stick with grain free. The other two could eat anything decent quality, but honestly even they look better without the grain. It's not that I think grain is bad, it's that I think of grain as basically being filler. That said, I stay away from anything who gets a lot of protein from vegetable sources (like peas or beans), too.

But it's really just personal preference (except that explosive diarrhea thing. Nobody wants that).


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

There's no fuss over here in this house! Right now my boys are on a grain inclusive food and doing well. I do use both grain free and grain inclusive though, and appreciate the variety.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm not really a fan of potatoes (my first dog was allergic so I got in the habit or avoiding them and white potatoes tend to be inflammatory anyway) so I prefer a food with oats or some other grain like that (one of my dogs is allergic to corn and wheat is a little iffy for him too) over a grain-free with potatoes. Although there are a few grain-free foods with no potatoes now. 

It used to be that grain-free foods had more meat protein than "traditional" dog foods but now that everybody has jumped on the grain-free bandwagon there are a lot that don't. I'm glad there are so many different options for allergic dogs now (my first dog, in the '90s, had very few choices) so I certainly won't complain, but for most dogs I think a high-quality grain-inclusive is just as good as a grain-free. It just all depends what that individual dog does best on.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Yeah I am not a fan of a bunch of peas and potatoes either- alittle brown rice or barley is just as easy to digest...
The only reason I am considering a grainfree currently is that I am looking at a 5 star, not too expensive food that is fish based, without chicken, and whats coming up just happens to be grain free....


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Lilac is highly allergic to grains and most plant material so I want to keep her alive. 
Manna gets very loose stool on grains and if the grain is whole...well it comes out the same form it went in as.

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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

sandgrubber said:


> When I go shopping for dogfood I see more and more bags, usually $10 more for the big bag, that advertise being grain free. My science reading tells me that they've found domestic dogs are endowed with the enzymes required to digest starch .. . I have seen various rice > wheat > corn studies (in terms of digestibility) but haven't seen anything to say potatoes or sweet potatoes are preferable to rice or other grains.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why grain free is worth the extra $?


I'm sure part of it is marketing.... but the ingredients that go into making grain-free food are also more expensive. Even if the amount of meat used is the same, the vegetables and legumes that replace the grains tend to have a higher market price than grains. Barley, wheat, and corn (not sure about rice) are all less expensive and easier to grow and there is a larger supply on the market in North America (and thus also to buy) than legumes like peas and vegetables like potatoes.

ETA: If your dog does great on grain-inclusive foods, there's no real reason to go grain-free.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Roxie eats Royal Canin which contains corn so... yep.  She is super soft and as fit as a sedentary dog can be.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

The fuss here is that my dog has allergies and before more dog foods took on the path of going grain-free, we had very limited choices in what we could feed him. Now there's a whole new world of choices, and I truly appreciate the options. 

Before my dog came around, the only fuss I made about foods was the whether or not they contained corn.


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## Brydean (Apr 3, 2008)

I have yet to find a grain free food my dog will eat. So I just to try to stick with a good quality grain included food. I do admit he is a picky pooch! LOL


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## dogloverforlife (Feb 23, 2013)

I just want a food that keeps my dog well muscled, clean ears, nice stool, and correct coat. So far I think grain free fits the bill that way for my Lab. It seems Annamaet was the best. Right now she's eating through her first bag of Farmina wild herring.


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## shellbeme (Sep 9, 2010)

There are dogs who need it-as you can see from many of these posts. The majority of it though, is marketing. It is aimed at the 'go natural feed your dog more meat' philosophy. The best part is that often times there isn't any more meat in the grain free foods-then in the grain inclusive. It's also a part of the trend to go away from corn-which has become the big evil. I don't necessarily disagree and I do think it's a trend that is here to stay. That being said my dogs, look great on grain free-however their poops are never completely firm. I have tried, over the years, several of the 'premium' brands-and grain free just doesn't do well for us. I guess it wouldn't be much of an issue, but when their poop is semi-soft, then I have anal gland issues.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

The fuss is primarily marketing.


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

The only fuss here is I really, really dont like cleaning up poop puddles. I avoid feeding a certain giant fluffy thing anything that has a high risk of causing him to produce poop puddles, grains are included in that list. It also means no gas mask is required to be inside my home...


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

LuvMyAngels said:


> The only fuss here is I really, really dont like cleaning up poop puddles. I avoid feeding a certain giant fluffy thing anything that has a high risk of causing him to produce poop puddles, grains are included in that list. It also means no gas mask is required to be inside my home...


I forgot about the horrid gas. 
Manna use to be able to clear the house, not just the room.


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

My rescue is allergic to wheat and barley and possibly corn. So yeah, that's why the fuss.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Dogs don't need grains so if you have a dog with no issues, grain inclusive may be fine. That being said, not all grainfrees are the same & that goes for grain inclusives. Some grain inclusives are very grain heavy.


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## moluno (Apr 29, 2009)

Some dogs are allergic to grains, so there's that. Mine aren't, so I have no problem feeding a grain-inclusive food. I don't find potatoes and peas any more appealing than barley and oats. 

I'm not spending the extra money on grain free unless it actually looks like a superior food!


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I've met lots of dogs with grain intolerances.

I've also met lots of dogs who were yeasty from carb-heavy foods (including grain free foods).

In the end, I say go with what works for your dog! If your dog does fine on grains and there's a food that is grain inclusive but has more meat than the grain free brand, then I say go for the grain-inclusive...


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

Like taquitos says feed what works for your dog.

Saya does well on raw diet she does get little bit of sweet potato or oatmeal as snack sometimes and does fine.

I switched Bella to farmina chicken & ancestral grains she is doing great on it. 

I think my main issue is quality ingredients I'm not fan of corn just my personal opinion so I avoid grain inclusive kibble that has it. 

I've fed both grain free and grain inclusive each done fine. There are pros and cons on both varieties. some grain lines are way too grain heavy and some grain free are too much on chickpeas, lentils etc. 

Important to research the brand and ingredients and feed what works for your dog.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I have not noticed a difference in grain free or grain inclusive foods. My dogs do the same on either.


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## Yellowsnow (Feb 5, 2014)

sandgrubber said:


> When I go shopping for dogfood I see more and more bags, usually $10 more for the big bag, that advertise being grain free. My science reading tells me that they've found domestic dogs are endowed with the enzymes required to digest starch .. . I have seen various rice > wheat > corn studies (in terms of digestibility) but haven't seen anything to say potatoes or sweet potatoes are preferable to rice or other grains.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why grain free is worth the extra $?


IMO, it is not worth the extra money. It cost more because of all of the other Carb/plant products used in Grain Free Kibble. Kibble needs Starches to form into a, well, kibble. So they have to come from somewhere. Grain is much cheaper, but in the molecular level of the Dogs digestive system, actually easier on the dog. Less ingredients = less things to upset said dog.

Some dogs have a sensitivity to some proteins. Most sensitivities are misdiagnosed by the owner with no k9 nutritionist involved, or even a vet. Dogs are dogs. They scratch, rub, and lick. Immediately a grain is blamed for any of these behaviors in today's advertising climate. Most of the time when a true allergy/sensitivity is diagnosed in a dog it is a meat based protein.

With that said, i like a meat based protein as the main source of protein. It matters not what the main Meat is, but should be in meal form. Byproducts are also welcomed. Nothing like a little Liver, heart, and kidneys, to maintain a healthy dog. 

Corn, Rice, Sorghum, are my grains of choice for the starch to make the kibble.

So the only Real Hype is for marketing and people who believe infomercials.


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## Alethea (Apr 26, 2010)

I've done a great deal of research on the subject, and I'll sum up what I've learned. You can decide for yourself, and if you google the topic, you'll find tons to read. 

The allergy issue has been covered, so I won't go there. First off, soy is basically undigestable for both cats and dogs, so it is a useless filler. Potato, when subjected to the high heat used in making kibble, becomes carcinogenic. Technically, all grains and starches do at high heat, but potato is especially known to. Further, as a _general rule_, all the grains and starches that go into pet food are GMO, or genetically modified organisms. There is not much research on this yet, but there are studies which show that GMO's go hand in hand with a high pesticide content. Pesticides are known to cause issues, and I'm sure you don't need anyone to tell you that. Finally, grains are not normal for either a dog or cat diet. They are used as fillers and binders. However, in themselves, they do not cause issues aside from allergies. 

I personally go organic for myself whenever possible, because pesticides cause cancer, and GMO's are laden with pesticides, among other associated issues. I see the increase in cancer/diseases in both humans and pets, along with the increase of GMO's, thus I see a correlation. I try to do what I can for my pets also so I try to be at least grain free, because organic is rather cost prohibitive and hard to find in pet food. But like I said, that's me, and you should decide for yourself.


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## Yellowsnow (Feb 5, 2014)

Alethea said:


> I've done a great deal of research on the subject, and I'll sum up what I've learned. You can decide for yourself, and if you google the topic, you'll find tons to read.
> 
> The allergy issue has been covered, so I won't go there. First off, soy is basically undigestable for both cats and dogs, so it is a useless filler. Potato, when subjected to the high heat used in making kibble, becomes carcinogenic. Technically, all grains and starches do at high heat, but potato is especially known to. Further, as a _general rule_, all the grains and starches that go into pet food are GMO, or genetically modified organisms. There is not much research on this yet, but there are studies which show that GMO's go hand in hand with a high pesticide content. Pesticides are known to cause issues, and I'm sure you don't need anyone to tell you that. Finally, grains are not normal for either a dog or cat diet. They are used as fillers and binders. However, in themselves, they do not cause issues aside from allergies.
> 
> I personally go organic for myself whenever possible, because pesticides cause cancer, and GMO's are laden with pesticides, among other associated issues. I see the increase in cancer/diseases in both humans and pets, along with the increase of GMO's, thus I see a correlation. I try to do what I can for my pets also so I try to be at least grain free, because organic is rather cost prohibitive and hard to find in pet food. But like I said, that's me, and you should decide for yourself.



This is so full of poo I don't know where to begin. So I will just leave it at this:

Nothing but uneducated opinion, sliced with some facts, put together to further an Agenda, with no sources to back up the claims.

Organic isn't what you think it is, and most people food is, or fed, gmo's.

I agree that GMO's suck, but your post is full of poo.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I have a grain sensitive dog as well, but I have fed grain inclusive before too when I just had Josefina after Izze passed away, but now she lives with my folks dogs and one is grain sensitive, so it's easier just to buy grain free. I have also found that even my non grain sensitive dogs do better on grain free. Their eyes are brighter, their coats are softer and fuller, even their toenails are shiner on grain free.


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## bowie (Apr 26, 2010)

Yellowsnow said:


> This is so full of poo I don't know where to begin. So I will just leave it at this:
> 
> Nothing but uneducated opinion, sliced with some facts, put together to further an Agenda, with no sources to back up the claims.
> 
> ...


And where are your sources?


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## fourdogs (Feb 3, 2014)

The fuss is marketing! Pet food companies have caught on to pet owners buying the fancy brands of the grain free foods and are copying to get their share of the market... 
NO reason at all to not feed grains unless your dog is intolerant/allergic. 

I made the switch back to grain-inclusive and my dogs are doing much better (not as itchy, consistently firm stools, better coat/skin).


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Yellowsnow said:


> This is so full of poo I don't know where to begin. So I will just leave it at this:
> 
> Nothing but uneducated opinion, sliced with some facts, put together to further an Agenda, with no sources to back up the claims.
> 
> ...


Care to elaborate?


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## Alethea (Apr 26, 2010)

Yellowsnow said:


> This is so full of poo I don't know where to begin. So I will just leave it at this:
> 
> Nothing but uneducated opinion, sliced with some facts, put together to further an Agenda, with no sources to back up the claims.
> 
> ...



I don't think your attitude was called for Yellowsnow. I have no agenda, I don't work in the petfood industry. I am just somebody who is concerned about my health and that of my pets, as is the person who started this thread. Why else would they have asked? I didn't post to be attacked, I posted food for thought. And, if you notice, I didn't 'push' anything, I _said_ it was my opinion, and I said everyone should do some research and *decide for themselves*. I didn't bother posting sources because that would take forever and I honestly don't think anyone on here wants a bibliography. 

Look, it is reactions like yours that prevent people from using these forums and getting anything from them. Forums are meant to be a place of ideas, thoughts, opinions and advice. You'd be hard pressed to find any pure facts or guarantees anywhere in here. That's the nature of of this, it's fluid. So, if I'm wrong, politely say so, and say why. Don't just pee on my rosebush and prance off with your tongue lolling.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Alethea said:


> I don't think your attitude was called for Yellowsnow. I have no agenda, I don't work in the petfood industry. I am just somebody who is concerned about my health and that of my pets, as is the person who started this thread. Why else would they have asked? I didn't post to be attacked, I posted food for thought. And, if you notice, I didn't 'push' anything, I _said_ it was my opinion, and I said everyone should do some research and *decide for themselves*. I didn't bother posting sources because that would take forever and I honestly don't think anyone on here wants a bibliography.
> 
> Look, it is reactions like yours that prevent people from using these forums and getting anything from them. Forums are meant to be a place of ideas, thoughts, opinions and advice. You'd be hard pressed to find any pure facts or guarantees anywhere in here. That's the nature of of this, it's fluid. So, if I'm wrong, politely say so, and say why. Don't just pee on my rosebush and prance off with your tongue lolling.


I agree lol, if I wanted sources I would just Google it. xD


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Generally, in a discussion if you're going to make assertions then it's on you to provide links to your cites/evidence or at least provide them if asked. It's just sort of common etiquette.


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## Alethea (Apr 26, 2010)

sassafras said:


> Generally, in a discussion if you're going to make assertions then it's on you to provide links to your cites/evidence or at least provide them if asked. It's just sort of common etiquette.


Lesson learned, my apologies to all. I do have sources and I can provide them. I hadn't because they're not all easily accessible. They aren't all on websites you can quickly look up, and I doubted anyone would bother hitting the library to check them out. They are also still with my college stuff which isn't super handy as I've been out of college over a year. 

And I honestly didn't expect such a reaction to my post. I only thought I'd share a line of thought that hadn't been touched on yet. I meant well, and I will think twice before posting any such thing again.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

There's no need to censor yourself, just back up statements of fact rather than opinion or anecdotes based on experience.

ETA: They're not available on PubMed?


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## Alethea (Apr 26, 2010)

sassafras said:


> There's no need to censor yourself, just back up statements of fact rather than opinion or anecdotes based on experience.
> 
> ETA: They're not available on PubMed?


There's plenty on Pubmed. The issue I find with it is that its sometimes so scientific in terminology that people don't use it as a source unless the have to, lol.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

What on earth else would someone read as evidence of claims about nutrition, other than the nutritional studies?


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## Alethea (Apr 26, 2010)

sassafras said:


> What on earth else would someone read as evidence of claims about nutrition, other than the nutritional studies?


I know, I agree. But unless you're serious about researching, studies like that are dry and generally avoided by people who just want quick facts. And most of the time, people aren't serious about researching and they just want something like 'cliff-notes'. So when I'm asked, I usually try to offer sources that kinda do the cliff-notes thing. If you find the good ones, they list those dry studies in their bibliography for anyone who wants to delve further, but they give the information in ways that you don't really have to be a science major to quickly grasp. Not that they're all hard to understand, but I get that people are busy with their lives and would rather a quick read than a long study. That's all I meant by that. The only problem with the cliff-notes articles is that more often than not they are being 'used' buy some company to prove their own point. So really, its not ideal any way you shake it.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Alethea said:


> There's plenty on Pubmed. The issue I find with it is that its sometimes so scientific in terminology that people don't use it as a source unless the have to, lol.





Alethea said:


> I know, I agree. But unless you're serious about researching, studies like that are dry and generally avoided by people who just want quick facts. And most of the time, people aren't serious about researching and they just want something like 'cliff-notes'. So when I'm asked, I usually try to offer sources that kinda do the cliff-notes thing. If you find the good ones, they list those dry studies in their bibliography for anyone who wants to delve further, but they give the information in ways that you don't really have to be a science major to quickly grasp. Not that they're all hard to understand, but I get that people are busy with their lives and would rather a quick read than a long study. That's all I meant by that. The only problem with the cliff-notes articles is that more often than not they are being 'used' buy some company to prove their own point. So really, its not ideal any way you shake it.


This forum has many people who are into serious study and have or still go to college or university. Some even teach or practise and hold jobs in the science field. 
It's never safe to assume here that any type of scientific study wouldn't interest us. 

(I did take animal science in university and plan on eventually expanding that to companion animal behaviour and nutrition)


edit: what I'm trying to say that you have entered a forum that has a higher number of educated people when it comes to animals and nutrition than the average Joe on the street.


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

I fed one 7kg bag of Nutra Nuggets to my puppy,later there was a sale out for Acana puppy&junior,so I bought it,not a complete grain free (20% oat),but I see the difference!There is much less waste and it doesn't stink at all(not like I puted my nose close to the poo and sniffed it,but well I didn't realize there is a poo next to my couch for more than hour  ) so we are sticking with this and my adults ones will go to some of the Acana grain-free formulas too.
Besides it's not natural for dog to eat grain,it's just a filler.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Pasarella said:


> Besides it's not natural for dog to eat grain,it's just a filler.


Yeah, but that's true of potatoes and peas and lentils and whatever else they put in grain-free foods too :/. So unless someone is feeding raw/homecooked/canned with absolutely no carby plant products, I feel like it doesn't make much difference.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Talking about what is "natural" for dogs to eat always slightly confuses and amuses me, anyway. Dogs are a completely unnatural species; if you believe the co-evolution theory they wouldn't even exist if they hadn't co-evolved with us they have been scavengers from the beginning. And regardless of where they've come and how they've evolved, we've completely changed them into every unnatural form imaginable - especially in the last 100 years or so when we've become obsessed with breeds instead of types. They're no more natural than a modern dairy cow is natural. So what is "natural" for them to eat is... what? 

Besides, filler isn't a dirty sin, nor is it useless. IME a lot of dogs have a lot of problems with diarrhea on grain-free foods - that "useless" filler (in addition, in the case of grains, to providing usable calories, macro and micro nutrients) provides fiber that a lot of dogs need for formed stool. 

There is a good argument made in "Dog Food Logic" (by Linda Case) that dogs can be considered omnivores. In general, not just for that particular point, that book is a great read and really does a good job of laying out what we do and don't actually _know_ about dogs and nutrition vs. what we "know." I wish everyone would read it.


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## Pasarella (May 30, 2013)

Well,I can imagine dog eating potatoes and peas,which they do as they grow in our garden.They just love raw potatoes.Lentils doesn't grow here so not sure if they would eat them fresh,but they sure don't eat the dried ones from store.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Izze loved veggies too, Josefina likes carrots. I don't think potato or peas or tapioca are bad, but if the food is more full of them than meat, then no its not better. Still a dog food heavy on any of those isn't nearly as bad IMO as one heavy on grains


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I don't think potato or peas or tapioca are bad, but if the food is more full of them than meat, then no its not better. Still a dog food heavy on any of those isn't nearly as bad IMO as one heavy on grains


Why?

(too short)


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I will gladly pay the extra ten dollars if it means a gas free house. Well worth the cost! I either have to pay the extra ten bucks for food or twenty bucks for air freshener.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Why?
> 
> (too short)


No good for my dogs. Josefina and even buddy will starve Food with a lot of filler before meat protein.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Ah, I dig it. I didn't realize you were talking about feeding your specific dogs.


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## gsdhunter (Nov 10, 2013)

Hunter seems to do better on grain inclusive foods. He also gained a ton of much needed weight when I switched him to something with grains. He also had really bad eye boogers on a couple of grain free foods. I wanted him to eat grain free, but I also want to do what's best for him.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Ah, I dig it. I didn't realize you were talking about feeding your specific dogs.


Yeah I wish I could feed a "filler" food because often times they are cheaper, but alas, I cannot.

Sorry about not being clesr, I had to post that last message in a hurry lol.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Gypsy just seems to do better on a grain free. Healthier poops, nicer coat, no gas and limited doggy smell. I've tried her on some grain inclusive foods, but meh. Better results for her on (especially certain) grain free foods.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

well, I'm expecting cannon butt tonight...Manna while I was gone decided to open the refrigerator and eat an entire loaf of bread. It's hard to feed grain free when you dog can opened the fridge.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Haha! My cats can open the fridge. . .so now I know they sell baby locks for fridges too .


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Haha! My cats can open the fridge. . .so now I know they sell baby locks for fridges too .


I have a babylock for the fridge...I was dumb enough to forget to lock it. 100% human error


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> Gypsy just seems to do better on a grain free. Healthier poops, nicer coat, no gas and limited doggy smell. I've tried her on some grain inclusive foods, but meh. Better results for her on (especially certain) grain free foods.


That another thing I have noticed when my dogs were on a food heavy in grains or fillers was that they smelled more lol


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Jubel does fine on grain free and grain inclusive formulas. I've been rotating through select Fromm formulas with him for the better part of a year. Pork & Applesauce and Salmon Veg for grain inclusive and Lamb & lentil (new, both dogs did well on), Pork & peas, Salmon tunalini, and Beef frittata veg for grain free. Jubel did poorly on the Duck & sweet potato formula and generally doesn't do great on chicken kibbles so I haven't even tried those. 

Again as is said all over this forum. Feed your dog what THEY do well on. Different dogs do better or worse on the same foods.


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## Yellowsnow (Feb 5, 2014)

I keep seeing "Filler" being used around here. What is this "Filler" and why is it so bad?


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

my own dogs just do better on grain free, any grain free. they don't react poorly is all grain inclusive's right away, but eventually they start having all kinds of health problems that disappear the second to switch back to grain free.

my dad switched his dog from grain inclusive which he did fine on, to grain free and he started eating more readily..previously he was a grazer, switched the the grain free and he started eating every bite the second it hit his bowl and begged for more, and his coat condition improved, again it wasn't BAD before, but it got softer and started shedding less on the grain free. 

now this said I feed mostly raw, my dogs get grain free kibble for meals at work(so they eat, raw for breakfast and weekend meals and kibble for weekday suppers) and the thing is that I add all sorts of grain's to their raw meals with no ill effect, but if I feed KIBBLE with grains they begin to have issues.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yellowsnow said:


> I keep seeing "Filler" being used around here. What is this "Filler" and why is it so bad?


Potatoes, lentils, tapioca, grains etc are all good as long as they are not too high up the list, for my dogs, it just doesn't work. It sucks because those foods are often cheaper, but I just don't like the way my dogs do on it and I have a grain allergic dog anyway ... can't even have rice lol.


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## Kit-n-kat (Jun 4, 2014)

I had my dog on grain free relatively expensive food formulated for skin issues, and no lie, she would go out, poop, and turn right around and chow down. *GAG* Nothing I did made a difference, and we tried everything from pineapple to meat tenderizer. If I wasn't leading her on a leash or right out there next to her to stop her, she'd eat her meals 'again'. Since I couldn't be there to walk her every time she needed to potty, and the people responsible in my absence can't/won't walk her, it was a regular thing. So I thought why am I feeding this special food, for her just to eat crap? (She seeks out and eats all crap, not just her own, and I can't police what the neighbors animals eat.) So I bought Iams mini chunks. And even tho I hate that it is full of corn and stuff, I will continue to feed it until I find something better, because it has given me the bonus of no more coprophagia. Oh, she will still snack on the neighbors cat's poopies if she comes across any, but she never eats her own and has stopped seeking out poop. 

When I asked my friend, who is a vet tech of 20+ years, why this is, she said because Iams is formulated so that the nutrients/proteins are more readily able to be broken down and thus useable by the dogs digestive system. She said that she expects my old dog food was pooping out with nutrients still in it, thus it smelled like 'food', so my dog ate it. She said my dog would likely poop less, and the poop would smell less on the Iams, and both are true. 

It appears as tho some foods are better formulated for what a dog needs and proper nutrient usage. The trick is finding them, whether they be grain free or not. Obviously you can pay a decent amount for not-so-good food??? I am in the market for something more skin-allergy friendly and even grain free, if it is formulated right, as my dog has developed (a) skin granuloma. While this may be due to boredom, which I am addressing also, it may be contributed to by allergies. So if anyone has thoughts on this, I'd be happy to hear them?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I wonder why my raw fed dog eats poop, then? 

Some dogs just like to eat poop.


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## Kit-n-kat (Jun 4, 2014)

sassafras said:


> I wonder why my raw fed dog eats poop, then?
> 
> Some dogs just like to eat poop.


Haha! I think so too  My dog is a pitbull (rescue), and I heard from many pit owners (when I was trying to find solutions) that its something pits are known for. They all told me to get used to it. Some said they'd tried muzzles and everything, and nothing worked. So I was resigned to it, and pleasantly surprised when the food change almost put an end to it entirely. It's just so gross, especially when you consider the adage 'you are what you eat'... and then she tries to lick my face. Not to mention when she would puke it up on the carpet. There is NOTHING worse than poop puke IMO.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

I figure eating poop is the dog's version of probiotics. Along with browsing on the compost heap.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I am just glad that my dog doesn't eat her own poop anymore lol.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Not all poop is created equal. Snowball is a connoisseur of poop; he usually leaves dog poop alone, and rabbit nuts are his fave. I'm starting to think he likes chasing rabbits just to scare the cr*p out of them.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

Charlie doesn't eat her own poop, nor does she eat raw-fed poops but she was munch the heck out of kibble-fed poops, and cat poops, and other non-dog poops.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

gingerkid said:


> Not all poop is created equal. Snowball is a connoisseur of poop; he usually leaves dog poop alone, and rabbit nuts are his fave. I'm starting to think he likes chasing rabbits just to scare the cr*p out of them.


Haha love the theory. Jubel is also a lover of rabbit and deer poop, he'll also go for some cat poop that the ferals like to leave around the neighborhood. Thankfully the only time he was interested in dog poop was his own when I tried adding some yogurt to his diet. It gave him soft/runny poop and he wanted to eat it. No more yogurt for him for sure.


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## cma48 (Mar 30, 2014)

When Odin was on grain free kibble his stools came out very soft and an almost yellow-brownish color. When I switched to kibble with rice his stool came out firmer but still with a yellow-brownish color. When I switched to raw his stool came out a perfect dark brown color, for the first time since I had him. But it was still insanely soft. The moment I upped his bone content just by a bit his stool would become too hard. There was like no in between (it was either too soft or too hard). This was with weeks of trying to perfect it. Now that I cook his meat (no cooked bones; dont worry) and add rice (about 25% of his meal) his stool comes out beautifully. I kind of enjoyed watching him poop. 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that no matter the hype over a new diet, fad, etc. you just got to do what is best for your dog, with whatever is within your means. For Odin that meant grain free really wasn't the best option for him.


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## domika (Jul 1, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> Not all poop is created equal. Snowball is a connoisseur of poop; he usually leaves dog poop alone, and rabbit nuts are his fave. I'm starting to think he likes chasing rabbits just to scare the cr*p out of them.


My dog loves rabbit poop aka power pellets around these parts  I figure its mostly grass anyways...


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> I wonder why my raw fed dog eats poop, then?
> 
> Some dogs just like to eat poop.


Some horses do to


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## BedlingtonGirl (Jun 16, 2014)

My dog usually just poops, and he doesn't eat it at all. He ate his own feces once because he pooped in his crate while housetraining, and he ate it since he didn't want to lay in it.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Neither of my dogs are poop eaters thank god. 

In regards to the grain free food discussion...I actually can't really go there with Ocean. I had tried a grain free food...and he started having anal gland issues. Went to the vet...they helped him out and then recommended I go back to a kibble with rice or something that would give his poop more bulk. I did that and he hasn't had an issue since.


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## Seanán (Apr 28, 2014)

Logan's allergic to most grains, with the exception of quinoa and wheat. Unfortunately, he's also allergic to peas, which is what most grain-free foods use instead of grains.


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