# Help me find a Non Shedding or Low Shedding Dog



## Pinnacle

*Whether you are allergic or just not a friend of dog hair it is important to find a dog that does not shed. There are plently of dogs both small and large which are non shedding or considered low shedding. Just make sure to do your homework to find a dog that is a good fit for your family. - Dave|Xoxide*

Our family is trying to decide what kind of dog to get. My wife's family always had a dog while she was growing up, but I had to rely on the neighbors.

It is very important to my wife to have a clean dog. It's been about 15 or so years since she has lived at home and she likes not having dog hairs on everything. The most recent dog her parents had was a German Sheppard/Black Labrador mix.

I would like a medium to large dog with higher intelligence. I want to train it, but being a first time dog owner, I may not be very good at training, so I want the dog to be of above average intelligence. We have two daughters, ages 4 and 7, so the dog needs to be good with kids. We have an average size suburban yard. We don't have any other pets, but we want a dog that will be friendly with other people's pets. My in-law's most recent dog once attacked a poodle. I want a dog that I can play Frisbee with at the park with minimal concern that it will attack somebody's dog instead of the Frisbee. Lastly, I am concerned about how well the dog will get along while we are at work/school during the day. We are willing to get two dogs if need be so that they can play together, but I have heard that with some breeds, this can be a mistake as they will get into more trouble together than they would individually.

Getting back to low shedding, I went to this web site and found a list.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/lightshedders.htm

While these dogs fit my wife's desire for a low shedding dog, they often do not fit my idea of the ideal dog. Generally speaking, the entire Toy group does not appeal to me. I don't care for Poodles either. I really like the Polish Lowland Sheepdog and perhaps the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. An American Foxhound might be a good choice too, but I'm not sure how much they shed. A Golden or Lab would be great, but I'm sure they shed way too much for my wife.

Any advice people can offer would be greatly appreciated. I want to make the best possible decision. I think if more people used forums such as this one, and the Internet in general, before getting a dog, there would be fewer dogs in the shelters. Thanks.


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## Keno's Mom

Labs and Goldens are nortorious shedders - labs in particular. So if you are concerned about the shedding don't get these breeds.

What about a retired greyhound? They are couch potatoes, quiet dogs and very low shedding. Only thing is you have to have a fenced in yard and can't really let them off leash. But they would make great joggers 

You say you don't like poodles - what about the standard poodle - they are more dog like and not so "prissy" like the toy/miniture ones.

Or you could check out the shelter for a mixed breed. If you get something with a wire-hair dog in the background, they would shed less.

A lot of the hound breeds are more of a pack animal and don't always do well inside all the time (like the foxhound).


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## Lorina

I was going to suggest a retired greyhound, too. They're typcially very gentle, and since they've been around other dogs their entire lives, are well-socialized. They already walk well on a leash, already crate trained. If it's your first dog, I'd suggest getting one that's been living in a foster home for a while, and has already been introduced to things it never saw before as a racer, such as stairs and glass doors, and is started on housebreaking and training. Some rescue groups, such as Greyhound Friends of NJ, have a program where they send the dogs to a prison for inmates to train. The dogs learn basic obedience, and the inmates learn to train dogs. 

Also, keep in mind that "intelligent" doesn't always equal "easily trained." Sometimes the smarter the dog, the more difficult they can be.


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## Pinnacle

I have looked a little bit at Greyhounds before. I will take another look. It's too bad I could not let it off the leash at the park for a Frisbee game, but I understand that just like there is no such thing as a perfect owner, there's no such thing as a perfect dog. How high of fence would I need for a Greyhound? To me, it looks like the type of dog that could clear a six foot fence with room to spare (slight exageration).

As for Poodles, even a Standard Poodle does not feel right. I looked at the doodle dogs thinking perhaps a Goldendoodle or Labradoodle might be a good fit, but I could not get past the Poodle look. Sorry. I mean no offense to Poodle owners.

Thanks for the ideas.


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## Laurelin

One thing to think about is that many labradoodle and goldendoodles shed just as much as labs and goldens do. It would be hard to find a truly non-shedding doodle. I wouldn't go with a doodle if shedding is a main concern personally. Too much variation with the crosses especially since most are F1 crosses.

I really like Wheatons, but that's just me.


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## Wimble Woof

I was going to suggest a Poodledoodle (lol) (AKA, standard poodle) but since you are not a poodle person... im at a loss.
Most dogs shed... and some shed alot!!
Im no expert on grey hounds.... so I have no advice in that area.. sorry!!


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## Laurelin

I know you're probably not into little white fluffy dogs (You're missing out) but my friend has a bichon and it's one of the least shedding dogs I've ever seen. It's great for her allergies.


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## Keno's Mom

Unless you get a rescued "doodle" dog, please don't patronize so called golden/lab-doodle "breeders" - they are only out to make money. And its no guarentee that they will not shed like the golden/lab part of them either!

The greyhounds are racers - flat track - not jumpers, so a normal 5 foot fence should be fine. You'd have to ask the greyhound people with size they recommend.

You could play frisbee as long as the park is fenced in where the dog could not keep running. There has been cases where a greyhound on a farm took off after a rabbit in the yard and didn't see the car coming - only set its sights on the rabbit and saw nothing else!


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## lovemygreys

Pinnacle said:


> I have looked a little bit at Greyhounds before. I will take another look. It's too bad I could not let it off the leash at the park for a Frisbee game, but I understand that just like there is no such thing as a perfect owner, there's no such thing as a perfect dog. How high of fence would I need for a Greyhound? To me, it looks like the type of dog that could clear a six foot fence with room to spare (slight exageration).
> 
> As for Poodles, even a Standard Poodle does not feel right. I looked at the doodle dogs thinking perhaps a Goldendoodle or Labradoodle might be a good fit, but I could not get past the Poodle look. Sorry. I mean no offense to Poodle owners.
> 
> Thanks for the ideas.


We have 14 retired racing greyhounds...I think they will fit many, but not all, of your desired attributes. They are VERY clean dogs. Their short coat requires minimal grooming and they shed considerably less than other breeds. Some greyhounds shed more than others (my unscientific opinion is that it relates to coat texture and fluffieness...a fluffier greyhound is going to shed more than a smoother, thinner coat). They also don't get "doggy odor" like most breeds do (again, due to their coat type). Our greyhounds typically only "need" a bath a couple times a year. They are much like cats in that most of them are fastidious about grooming themselves.

True greyhounds should NEVER be off leash in an unfenced area. EVER! They can reach speeds of 40 mph in three strides...so unless you can run that fast, don't trust your greyhound to not take off after a leaf or squirrel. Of course, it's my opinion that NO dog should be offleash in an unfenced area, regardless of breed (working dogs who are actively working are the exception...i.e. tracking dogs or police k-9s). There are just way too many variables that are out of your control when your dog is off leash....they may not attack another dog, but another loose dog may attack them! Things like that....

As for trainability...I'll tell you greyhounds are very smart, but as mentioned earlier, trainability and intelligence are not necessarily directly correlated. I know greyhounds that compete in agility and obedience (and do quite well!), but if you are looking for an super easy to train dog...well...a greyhound is not a golden or a lab in that department. They don't live to obey your every whim and command. But they are such easy dogs to live with and so well behaved, I've really found that extensive training is not necessary to have a nice companion pet. We have a few hounds that will sit,shake,lay on command...but training is somethign that really doesn't interest me, so I'm happy as long as they are well behaved. 

Due to their training at the track, they are accustomed to being handled by a variety of people and as a result usually tolerate handling by children quite well. Though, some greyhounds may have never seen a child before, so it takes them a little while to figure out that they really are just a small person  For a first time dog owner/greyhound owner, I would recommend adopting from a group that has a foster program...preferably foster homes with small children so you are adopting a dog that has already become accustomed to kids. You will also want to 'dog proof' your children by teaching them how to respect a dog (don't yank or pinch their ears, tails are not handles or ropes to swing on, how to approach and pet the dog nicely...)

Greyhounds do wonderfully in pairs (or more!) regardless of gender...in fact, it is often said that greyhounds are like potato chips...it's hard to have just one! They are just such wonderful, easy dogs to live with. For fencing, I probably wouldn't go any lower than four feet. Most greyhounds aren't fence jumpers, and if they are the adoption group mostly likely knows that from the trainer at the track so they can place the dog in the appropriate home. I think with all dogs a 6 foot privacy fence is ideal, and I'd say the same for greyhounds. Our fencing is four foot chain link in some parts...about half is 6 foot privacy fencing. In addition to our own greys, we've probably had a good 60-70 go through our doors and never once had a fence jumper.


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## Pinnacle

Thanks Lovemygreys. That was a very thorough answer. I think Greyhounds are something I need to look into further. I ordered this book today.

http://www.amazon.com/Adopting-Raci...ef=sr_1_3/103-2353294-7297453?ie=UTF8&s=books

In the meantime, I will do some searches on the Internet.


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## Tankstar

How about a standard poodle? I know you dont like the poodle look. but a standard is a large dog with low shedding and allergies. And you dont need to get the dumb hair cut witht he poof and all on it. you can just get it shaved. We have had small poodles and I have never like the show cut, we always just got them shaved. 

How about a great dane (if you want a huge dog) they have very short coats, and I think (dont quote me) shed minimal. All dogs will shed, just some less then others. Good dog food and grooming will also cut down on the shedding as well 

Now for the dog itsself you are looking for a buddy to play with, good with children and good with other dogs. to me that is all up to the dog, any dog can be trained to be nice. As long as you socialize it with as many people and other dogs as possible. Have you looked in to rescue? If you dont want to deal with potty training and all. and the dog may be already trained with basic obidence and be good with other dogs and children. As rescue groups normally check the dogs personality first, also rescue groups will help you find a dog that fits your needs. And you can still get a young dog from them aswell. I would suggest since you have never had a dog, and it has been years since your wife has also, that training classes would be best. As the dog is trained around other dogs (good for socialization) and trained around other people which will make it easier to handle if you are in a aprk and it is distracted by a jogger with a dog, your dog will be undecontrol as it has been trained in the same atmosphere as this. good luck on finding a dog.


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## lovemygreys

> How about a great dane (if you want a huge dog) they have very short coats, and I think (dont quote me) shed minimal. All dogs will shed, just some less then others. Good dog food and grooming will also cut down on the shedding as well


Danes are GREAT dogs...Very big and powerful, though they are gentle giants. A playful young Dane might hurt a small child unintentionally, so that would be my concern. They don't shed a ton, but the one that we board in our kennel drools like there's no tomorrow. Slobber factor pretty much ruled them out for our family (I just love 'em when we board them though!). They also have a fairly short lifespan, being a giant breed. We have to leash walk the Dane we board b/c she can (and will) easily jump a 6 foot fence...not sure if that's common for the breed or not though.



Pinnacle said:


> Thanks Lovemygreys. That was a very thorough answer. I think Greyhounds are something I need to look into further. I ordered this book today.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Adopting-Raci...ef=sr_1_3/103-2353294-7297453?ie=UTF8&s=books
> 
> In the meantime, I will do some searches on the Internet.


That's a pretty good starter book. I usually recommend Retired Racing Greyhounds For Dummies...VERY well written, easy to read...written by one of the other gurus, Lee Livingood.

greytalk.com is a fantastic message board for greyhound owners and fanciers...a great place to ask questions and read through other's experiences with greyhounds. Though, I will "warn" you that it's often the place people go with their problems...so it may seem like there are a lot of health/medical/behavioral issues.....but it's not really representative of the entire population of greyhounds as pets. Your adoption group will be invaluable in helping assess the available dogs and helping you choose the one that will be right for your family/activity level/experience. (I'm Kennelmom over there  ) Greyhound owners are a really great community and there is a TON of support for new adopters.


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## blackrose

I also thought that if you wanted a low shedding dog, maybe you should look into Giant Schnauzers. These are dominant dogs, but are very intelligent. They are good with kids, athletic, low shedding...Here are some pros and cons listed for the breed on www.yourpurebredpuppy.com:



> If you want a dog who...
> 
> 
> 
> Is large and strong, yet also lithe and elegant
> Has a wiry coat that doesn't shed too much and a whiskery face with a wise expression
> Plays hard and thrives on vigorous athletic activities
> Looks imposing, so makes an effective deterrent and keen watchdog
> Is versatile -- when well-trained, can learn and do almost anything
> A Giant Schnauzer may be right for you.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't want to deal with...
> 
> 
> 
> Vigorous exercise requirements
> Rowdiness and exuberant jumping, especially when young
> Destructiveness when bored or not exercised enough
> Aggression or fearfulness in some lines, or when not socialized enough
> Aggression toward other animals
> Strong-willed mind of his own, requiring a confident owner who can take charge
> Regular clipping and trimming of the wiry coat
> A Giant Schnauzer may not be right for you.


 It then goes on and explains these in detail...here is the link: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/giantschnauzers.html

I'd also thought I'd say that my math teacher has one. She brought it into class one day and he was the sweetest dog. She has a four year old and Oynx gets along great with him. Although when she told me that Oynx was show quality, but came from a breeder that when she described sounded like a puppymill, I told her that he was most likely NOT show quality because the parents hadn't been shown and it was no wonder his ear crop went bad, look where she got him from...she gave me a dirty look. lol Don't think she liked me too well for that one.


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## threedognite

*low shedding dog*

I have three dogs. Two shed horribly and my Goldendoodle doesn't shed at all. Her doggie dad is a large red Golden Retreiver and her doggie mom is a white standard Poodle.
My girl is quite intelligent and learns quickly and is the clown in our house. She keeps us entertained all the time.
These hybrid dogs are known to be healthy, intelligent (the Poodle half) easy to train and generally just a wonderful pet. I have seen these dogs in several different sizes and my girl is around 50 lbs. although these dogs can get larger. There is also a miniature version of these dogs as well.
The down side to these dogs is grooming. When Sunny's hair grows out it becomes almost unmanagable even with regular brushing and combing. She looks beautiful when her coat is long and groomed but the hair mats up very quickly and is a task to take care of. I usually keep her hair cut short but then her cuteness is diminished and she takes on the look of a Poodle.
If you decide to aquire one of these dogs, my advise is to find a reputable breeder. You can email me and I will tell you where I bought my doodle and I absolutely love these people. Beware of so-called doodle 'breeders'. So many people these days are breeding these dogs just for the money and these people don't know what they are doing.
A doodle can get expensive, anywhere from $500.00 to $2,000.00
Find a breeder who will offer a health certificate along with a hip certification. If you are truly interested in aquiring one of these pups, you might want to visit the Doodle Forum and read all about these dogs. I wouldn't trade my doodle for anything. I also have a 140 lb German Shepherd who sheds terribly and a Sheltie/Aussie mix who also sheds terribly. I love my dogs and put up with the hair but it's an every day job.
If you want to email me, it's: [email protected]


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## blackrose

Sounds like you got lucky with your mix. I helped groom two 'doodles the other day and they both shed like CRAZY! With a mutt, you never know what you are getting....you could get the non-shedding coat of a poodle, but you could also get the heavy shedding coat of a Lab! If I'm remembering right, they were first bred to be hypoallergenic guide dogs, but the program was disbanded as they couldn't get the dogs to consistantly be non-shedding....hmmmm....


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## Wimble Woof

threedognite said:


> If you decide to aquire one of these dogs, my advise is to find a reputable breeder. You can email me and I will tell you where I bought my doodle and I absolutely love these people. Beware of so-called doodle 'breeders'. So many people these days are breeding these dogs just for the money and these people don't know what they are doing.
> A doodle can get expensive, anywhere from $500.00 to $2,000.00
> Find a breeder who will offer a health certificate along with a hip certification.


Sigh... first off.... reputable breeder of doodles is an oxymoron... No reputable breeder will cross breed like this.... I know this is a whole new can of worms here, but has to be said.


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## lovemygreys

> Sounds like you got lucky with your mix. I helped groom two 'doodles the other day and they both shed like CRAZY! With a mutt, you never know what you are getting....you could get the non-shedding coat of a poodle, but you could also get the heavy shedding coat of a Lab! If I'm remembering right, they were first bred to be hypoallergenic guide dogs, but the program was disbanded as they couldn't get the dogs to consistantly be non-shedding....hmmmm....


Completely agree <<nodding>> You can not expect or depend on *any* characteristics when it's a mutt. They are a hodgepodge of genes. There are now $2000 doodles being dumped in kill shelters because *shocker* the cute pups grew up and now shed like a lab or this "hypoallergenic" dog is now causing little Timmy to sneeze.



Wimble Woof said:


> Sigh... first off.... reputable breeder of doodles is an oxymoron... No reputable breeder will cross breed like this.... I know this is a whole new can of worms here, but has to be said.


Completely agree. Buying a doodle means lining the pocket of an unethical person and I simply won't do it, nor could I ever in good conscience recommend someone else do so.


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## RonE

I am saddened by the widespread prejudice against standard poodles.

I'm a hound and sporting breed kinda guy, but I would, and maybe someday will, have a standard poodle in a heartbeat. If I were concerned about my image, I would tell people that he is a giant American water spaniel.


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## tting1010

I'm no expert but I've heard that Wheaton Terriors don't shed and do get up to around 40-55 pounds. 

Anyone else know anything about the breed?


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## briteday

Wheatons can drive you nuts especially if you get a puppy. My retired neighbors just obtained one from a breeder and she is driving them up the wall. Wheatons are VERY high energy and very much the terrier mentality. And I say that lovingly because both of our dogs are terriers. If you have the time to walk them, play with them, and entertain them constantly they will fit in well. I think they would do great with older kids who could run and play with them. But a Wheaton gets to be a medium sized dog with lots of energy...could easily knock over a smaller child. Our neighbor's Wheaton is currently 1.5 years old and is bounding over furniture, jumped on the glass topped table, and has scratched their bodies as she jumps up all the time. Granted, these people never walk her or do anything other than throw a ball around in the back yard for about an hour in the morning. But she needs MUCH more than that. In the few months they've had her she has torn up the screen door, scratched the patio doors, and destroyed numerous toys they bought for her.

I think Wheatons are a great breed, in the right homes. In fact, we are considering adopting this neighbor dog if they decide to give up on her. But beware, if you don't have the time, don't get a terrier.


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## Snowshoe

Retired greyhounds, I've always heard, are great dogs. Once I get Orchid titled properly, then I'd consider adopting one. 

I met one at PetSmart the other day. He was SO CUTE! Just a large, and very gentle dog. 

In fact, my boyfriend wanted a lab (sorry lab lovers, I talked him out of it) and I'm trying to steer him towards a retired greyhound, if he chooses to get a dog. 

As for the whole doodle thing- personally, I'd stay away. Yeah, originally they were bred to be hypoallergenic guide dogs, but that's ONLY in Australia. Now, they're just byb fodder. 

Since no one can show a doodle, the only purpose they serve is to make money for their breeders. Plus, it's nearly impossible to find a breeder who breeds mutts, and also does health testing. 

And, should you find a breeder who does those things, you'll be paying over $1000 for a straight up mutt, who will be hyper (as most dogs are) and may end up shedding like crazy. 

Anyway, I just wanted to put in a few encouraging words for your thoughts on a retired greyhound. 

I mean...look at ilovemygrey's avatar...how could you NOT love that face?


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## anndi39

F1B doodles have a very low incidence of shedding...of course this is 75% poodle and 25% retriever so you mostly have a poodle. Even so, I love mine and would recommend the breeder I got it from also. No they aren't a breed, and yes, people make money off of them, but I wish people would give a little grace to us doodle owners who love our mixed breed dog. People tend to try and shame us into thinking we are evil doodle owners. And yes, our breeder does do testing on all her dogs...there are people who are good people who breed doodles.

I also have a standard poodle...and love him as well. There is no shame in owning a poodle. He is very athletic and sporting, and there are haircuts they can have that don't look poodle at all.


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## Snowshoe

In regards to random doodle genetics- your post illustrates why these dogs will probably never be recognized by any credible kennel club. I mean, even in the "serious" breeding community there are different ideas about what constitutes a doodle- is it 25% lab, is it 50% lab, or should it be mostly poodle- what about the coloring, the size, the texture of coat, etc. 

Even when as the above poster said, the dog is 70+ percent poodle, it still could shed. 

So basically, you're paying over $1000 for a dog between 30 and 70 lbs, that could shed, may not shed, could have long hair, could have short hair, could have curly hair, could have straight hair, could be white, cream, black, red, or brown...

sounds like you'd get the same thing from going to the humane society and paying $100 to rescue a dog that would other wise be put to sleep.

But, that's just the part about the doodle/ designer dog fad that confuses me.

Also, someone could be a really great person, and still not have great breeding practices. The judgment call was not on anyone's character. The least a breeder should do is CERF/ OFA/ Pennhip and Pennheart testing on their breeding stock. 

My post was not meant to insult, I simply posted the facts as I have seen them as is my perogative on a community forum.


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## anndi39

Is there anyone here that does NOT like their golden retriever/poodle mix? I would be really interested in hearing them speak.... yes, they are a mutt, Im not in denial. It's a mutt I really love, and I easily love him as much as I love my pure bred standard poodle....


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## Snowshoe

IMO, "liking" a dog does not make it worthy breeding stock. 

However, I'm glad you love your pup.


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## RonE

I think we need to cut the doodle-owners a little slack. 

I suspect that Esther is the product of a breeder in Wisconsin who is cranking out Plott hound mixes and selling them to anyone who has $40. A lot of these dogs end up in shelters because people have no idea what they're getting into.

The breeder might be disreputable (okay, this one most definitely is) but, regardless of her origin, this is a great dog and I'm glad we found her.

Criticise the breeder, but acknowledge that the owners love their doodles just as much as the rest of us here love our purebreds and shelter mutts.


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## Snowshoe

RonE said:


> Criticise the breeder, but acknowledge that the owners love their doodles just as much as the rest of us here love our purebreds and shelter mutts.


Yup. I do agree.


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## lovemygreys

RonE said:


> Criticise the breeder, but acknowledge that the owners love their doodles just as much as the rest of us here love our purebreds and shelter mutts.


I don't think anyone has accused oodle/poo owners of not loving their dogs. I would hope whether you spend $10 or $1000+ on a pet, that you love and care for it properly. But that still doesn't negate the other arguments put forth that these dogs have no guarantees or predictablity as to temperament, health, size, etc.....If someone is looking to purchase a puppy that will grow to be a dog with X, Y, Z qualities, the designer mutts are not the best route to go. 

As for judging someone who chooses to purchase an expensive mutt from a breeder who is ONLY contributing to pet overpopulation for personal financial gain vs saving a life...well...I imagine if I did all breed rescue and spent my time/money/heart rescuing mutts who have been dumped, I'd probably have a hard time not judging someone who jumped on the fad bandwaggon to get a doodle or a poo when so many of those same dogs are dying in shelters. I don't understand the mentality that shelter dogs aren't "good enough" for someone who wants a mutt to begin with!


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## anndi39

if I could have gotten a golden retriever/poodle mix at a shelter I would have been more than happy to have gotten it....i made my rounds to every shelter in my area and the Phoenix metro area, and what i found was pit bulls by the dozens and dogs with short course hair that fell out in bushels. That doesn't mean those dogs don't deserve homes, Im just saying that for a person who is looking for a doodle type dog....well, I couldn't find any rescues like that in a city of 4 million. 

Anyway...to each their own I guess. Im happy that atleast one here agrees that I should be able to own mine without people trying to shame me into hiding.


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## blackrose

It isn't the owner of the Goldendoodle we are mad at, persay. I have to mutts, and I love them too. I think what irks us to no end is when a person who has a mutt gives it a fancy name (why can't I call my mutts by a fancy name? Because they didn't come with a price tag? I can't I call them a Rottador [maybe...he may be pure. We aren't sure] or a Gerban Rottle Dog?) and then they promot buying mutts from a breeder. So it isn't just the 'Doodle owners we would jump on the case of...if someone was breeding Cattle Dog/GSD mixes, a person bought one, and then they were promoting the breeder that bred them, we'd be just as mad.  Nothing personal.


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## anndi39

So....if I lied and said I got it from a rescue everyone would love me....thats the part I don't get....if I couldn't find one at a rescue...and I really wanted one....then y the heck....can't I have one? And if people like me also want one...y can't someone breed them so we can have one? I don't need or even have a desire to give them a fancy name.... Im perfectly willing to call them a golden retriever/poodle mix. Im not disillussioned into thinking they are a new breed. Its a mix I like. I like that his coat doesn't shed, but it isn't as tightly curled as my poodle. I like that he is obedient and extremely intelligent...I love his retriever color...I love his big bear look. And he is loyal and loving, I dunno y I can't pay to have all that if there isn't a rescue around that does have it.


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## Snowshoe

I think that you are very lucky to have gotten a doodle that worked out so well for you. 

About a month and a half ago we had two now 8 month old labradoodle puppies turn up in our shelter.

Suprised? 

Here is why the woman got rid of them: she said that they shed all over her house, that they were too much for her to handle, and some other stupid reason. 

We found out shortly after we got them, that one of the puppies had hip displasia. Currently, they are both being fostered. 

When people buy these doodle, they're under the impression that they're getting a dog that won't shed (obviously, that's not what happened here) and that they'll be healthier then pure bred dogs. 

Perhaps, like you said, if the dog is 75% poodle, then it probably won't shed. However, whether it's 20% poodle or 99%, it's still a "doodle." And people can still sell them as such, and most people who are looking for a "doodle" won't know the difference. 

My point is that it sounds like you got really lucky.


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## Pinnacle

Snowshoe said:


> Retired greyhounds, I've always heard, are great dogs. Once I get Orchid titled properly, then I'd consider adopting one.
> 
> I met one at PetSmart the other day. He was SO CUTE! Just a large, and very gentle dog. . . .


The more I learn about retired greyhounds, the better choice they appear to be for my family. Currently, I am reading the Dummies book, and I just received the other retired greyhounds book from Amazon yesterday. I have plenty of time still to read these books since we still are going to need to get a mini-van and a fence for the backyard before we get a dog.

My family and I went to see two greyhounds at a nearby PetSmart over the weekend. A local greyhound organization frequently takes them out to meet people.

http://www.afgwm.org/


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## threedognite

"As for judging someone who chooses to purchase an expensive mutt from a breeder who is ONLY contributing to pet overpopulation for personal financial gain vs saving a life...well...I imagine if I did all breed rescue and spent my time/money/heart rescuing mutts who have been dumped, I'd probably have a hard time not judging someone who jumped on the fad bandwaggon to get a doodle or a poo when so many of those same dogs are dying in shelters. I don't understand the mentality that shelter dogs aren't "good enough" for someone who wants a mutt to begin with!"

In response to this quote:
I have two dogs that were rescues and my doodle that I purchased from a breeder. Every dog I have ever owned (and I have had several) came from either shelters or rescues and none of these dogs were puppies, they were all adults. I know all too well about byb "jumping on the band wagon" to make a few bucks from these dogs and that's why I did a lot of research before I decided to buy a puppy. Every time the word "doodle" is mentioned, a flurry of negative comments usually follow. People need to remember that many of the pure breeds of today started out as mixes of two or more different breeds of dogs. I am in no way saying a doodle should be considered a pure breed nor am I saying a doodle should be recognized by the AKC. 
The person asked about low shedding dogs. My Goldendoodle does not shed. That doesn't mean ALL doodles don't shed. I wouldn't care if she DID shed!!!
My other two dogs shed enough hair to 'build' a new dog!
I love the personality of my doodle and how easy she is to train. Yes, she gets into mischief, she is super curious about everything and bothers my other two dogs to death. She is also very clownish, loves to play, run and jump and apparently is a site to see in public because people stop and stare at her. They aren't quite sure what to make of her. They can't figure out what kind of dog she is and everyone wants to pet her soft hair.
Did I pay too much for her? Probably. I'm sure my German Shepherd's previous owners paid a tremendous amount for him when he was a puppy but he wound up in a rescue. Lucky for me.


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## o0starstruct0o

I might have to agree with Laurelin and suggest a Soft Coated Wheaton Terrier. They are a medium sized dog that sheds very little. Actually, they have "hair" rather than fur, making them good candidates for people who suffer from allergies. They're coat would be more similar to you losing a few hairs a day rather than shedding. With regular brushing to remove loose hairs, there shouldn't be a problem around the house. They are sweet-tempered dogs and get along with other dogs as long as you socialize them early (as with most dogs). From what I've researched, they are extremely intelligent and generally catch on to training quickly.


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## blackrose

anndi39 said:


> So....if I lied and said I got it from a rescue everyone would love me....thats the part I don't get....if I couldn't find one at a rescue...and I really wanted one....then y the heck....can't I have one? And if people like me also want one...y can't someone breed them so we can have one? I don't need or even have a desire to give them a fancy name.... Im perfectly willing to call them a golden retriever/poodle mix. Im not disillussioned into thinking they are a new breed. Its a mix I like. I like that his coat doesn't shed, but it isn't as tightly curled as my poodle. I like that he is obedient and extremely intelligent...I love his retriever color...I love his big bear look. And he is loyal and loving, I dunno y I can't pay to have all that if there isn't a rescue around that does have it.


 Not to sound harsh or anything but....the reason you can't pay for all of that is this: 

When you support a backyard breeder for your own selfish reasons (why can't I have this dog, that acts like this, that looks like this, and I want it NOW instead of waiting to purchase one responsibly) you are taking the life away from another dog and contributing to the pet over population problem. 
People who want a dog that looks a certain way and acts a certain way should take the time to purchase their dog responsibly. We don't have a big deal that your dog is a doodle, a mix, many people have mixed breed dogs. I have two of them and I love them to death. What we have a problem with is that people are breeding mixed breed dogs irresponsibly and then people are purchasing these dogs irresponsibly. That is the main problem.

And since your doodle is a mix, that traits in him that you like is NOT going to be consistant with the next doodle dog. I have a Lab/Cattledog/GSD mix. Who wants to bet that the next Lab/Cattledog/GSD is going to look like Rose and act like Rose? Any takers? Anyone?


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## anndi39

""Not to sound harsh or anything but....the reason you can't pay for all of that is this:""


Funny thing is I did pay for all that! And I'm tickled pink with everything I paid for! 


""When you support a backyard breeder for your own selfish reasons (why can't I have this dog, that acts like this, that looks like this, and I want it NOW instead of waiting to purchase one responsibly) you are taking the life away from another dog and contributing to the pet over population problem. ""

I have adopted dogs from shelters, and all my cats have come from shelters. I did look for a retriever/poodle mix in the shelters...they aren't there atleast in my area. I didn't take any lives from dogs in shelters by buying my retriever/poodle mix...lay the blame where it belongs...on the fool who impulsively bought those poor dogs without any research in the first place. I didn't say I want it NOW. I have researched for a year.... and what do ya know? Im 100% satisfied with my purchase.


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## lovemygreys

****wading through all the OFF TOPIC arguing****  




Pinnacle said:


> The more I learn about retired greyhounds, the better choice they appear to be for my family. Currently, I am reading the Dummies book, and I just received the other retired greyhounds book from Amazon yesterday. I have plenty of time still to read these books since we still are going to need to get a mini-van and a fence for the backyard before we get a dog.
> 
> My family and I went to see two greyhounds at a nearby PetSmart over the weekend. A local greyhound organization frequently takes them out to meet people.
> 
> http://www.afgwm.org/



That is AWESOME!!!!!   I've never heard of that particular group, but they've got some greyt looking hounds! I have to say...Subway Ginny, JNJ Summer and Boc's Lilhemie all caught my eye....Of course, they are all great, so choosing just one is always really hard!


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## luv4gsds

Finally I made it through all these waisted post. For a minute I thought it was the good, the bad and the ugly. 

Greyhounds are a good breed to own. When I was living in WV. (birth place) I helped out with a greyhound rescue for a while http://www.almost-heaven.org/home.htm but from the greyhounds I helped I found out that they didn't really know a whole lot like you think a dog would know. Considering they spend most of the time in kennels. They didn't know really how to play, they didn't know how to climb stairs, They didn't know any house manners, one didn't know what to think about the grass in my yard (he wouldn't step foot on it). And some of them had very high prey drive. Its best to look at greyhounds that have already went through the foster home process. 

These are some books I recommend.
Care of the Racing Greyhound- by: Blythe, L., Gannon, J., Craig, A.M.
Playtraining Your Dog- by: Patricia Gail Burnham
Greyhounds Complete Pet Owner's Manuals- by: D. Caroline Coile Ph.D.
Adopting the Racing Greyhound- by: Cynthia A. Branigan
Living with a Greyhound- by: Cynthia A. Branigan


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## lovemygreys

> Greyhounds are a good breed to own. When I was living in WV. (birth place) I helped out with a greyhound rescue for a while http://www.almost-heaven.org/home.htm but from the greyhounds I helped I found out that they didn't really know a whole lot like you think a dog would know. Considering they spend most of the time in kennels. They didn't know really how to play, they didn't know how to climb stairs, They didn't know any house manners, one didn't know what to think about the grass in my yard (he wouldn't step foot on it). And some of them had very high prey drive. Its best to look at greyhounds that have already went through the foster home process.


Retiring from racing and moving into pet life is probably the most stressful time in a greyhounds life. They've been taken from the routine they know and, basically, been dropped on Mars as far as they're concerned.

Some greyhounds never play with toys. It's not that they don't know how...it's that just have no interest in them. Most others, once they learn all about being a pet instead of a professional athlete, will play with toys. We had 6 dogs in our kennel straight from the track and they were ALL nutso over the stuffies. For many greyhounds playing = running  Its still playing (to them), just different than other breeds. One reason they love greyhound playgroup, but may not necessarily enjoy all-breed dog parks.

Since most of them have probably never been in a house, you do have to teach them what things like ceiling fans, stairs and sliding glass doors are. It's kinda like having a puppy for a few days. LOL The vast majority of them take to pet life in no time at all. They are smart dogs that learn quickly...I think the key to success is the proper home acclimation method to minimize stress and confusion for the dog. The Dummies book explains it pretty well...and I'm sure the adoption group will also have advice on the subject. For first time greyhound owners, a fostered hound is usually a great choice. Personally, for my first, I wanted to "whole expeience" of adopting a retired racer and wanted one as fresh from the track as possible. Turns out, with my first, there wasn't a whole lot of "work" to do...she was like: what's that? A TV, cool....What's that? A ceiling fan. cool...Stairs? Hmm...ok, I'll give it a whirl. LOL Very, very easy to home acclimate.

Care of the Racing Greyhound is not necessarily a great book for someone contemplating adopting a greyhound...the current version is written for trainers and racing owners and is pretty technical in terms of how to condition the dog and diagnose/treat injuries/illness. It IS a GREAT reference book to have once you've adopted a greyhound...I'd definitely want my vet to have a copy since there are a few peculiarities to the breed (i.e. blood values). There is a newer version: Care of the Racing and Retired Greyhound due out in a few months. If OP adopts a greyhound, I'd wait to buy the new, updated version.


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## luv4gsds

Will from what I've read of it while owning it. It is a great book for helping out with the understanding of the anatomy, physiology, medicine and surgery with in the greyhound. This is a little of what is in the book.
http://www.networksplus.net/nga/care.htm

I helped out with this breed for many years.


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## lovemygreys

luv4gsds said:


> Will from what I've read of it while owning it. It is a great book for helping out with the understanding of the anatomy, physiology, medicine and surgery with in the greyhound. This is a little of what is in the book.
> http://www.networksplus.net/nga/care.htm


It IS a great book...and I have had my copy for years now.  My point is that it's not a book I would recommend for someone who's at the stage of investigating the breed. It's great once you own a greyhound, but not tremendously useful until you do. There are much better options for new/potential adopters - Branigan's Adopting the Racing Greyhound and Livingood's Retired Racing Greyhounds for Dummies are the two best and most often recommended. I have never heard of an adoption group that recommends the Care of...book for _potential_ adopters. Not saying there isn't one, but it would not be the most common or popular (or best, IMHO) book for potential adopters.

The Care of Book sells online for quite a bit of money...I would recommend anyone without a copy wait until the new version is out simply because the old version of the book is so darn expensive and is being replace anyway. You can order through the NGA.




> I helped out with this breed for many years.


As have I from fostering to hauling to boarding....in addition to having owned 15 retired racers (13 at the moment).


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## squirt1968

I looked for quite some time at the humaine saciety etc for a mix , designer dog whatever in a small size and never found a thing. finally got my shih tzu
from a reputable breeder. I am still cnhecking w/ hs for a small designer for my parents have been checking for over a year now. The pure bred people here have made your point over and over OK? we get your point


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## Ginny01OT

I have a standard poodle and they are much different than the toy and miniature dog breeds. He is highly intellegient (arguably the most intellegient of all breeds), was housebroken by 4 1/2 months, clean, does not shed at all and he is rather strong and athletic. He loves to play fetch and gets along well with the number of dogs that we meet at our local dog park. My husband and I both work and as long as we give him a nice walk or let him run around the backyard or dog park when we get home he is content. I have owned terriers, hunting dogs, etc. but this dog is by far the smartest, sweetest dog we have ever owned. Standard poodles are great dogs (we also have four cats and except for a few chases around the living room at times, they get along very well). Also, you do not need to groom them like you see on shows, the pupply clip is nice and they don't look so fancy-- I have gotten many comments on his looks. You do need to brush and comb them quite often though. This dog does get big though, our 8 1/2 month old is pushing 55 lbs--I am sure he is close to full grown now tho. Good luck!!!


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## Wimble Woof

squirt1968 said:


> I looked for quite some time at the humaine saciety etc for a mix , designer dog whatever in a small size and never found a thing. finally got my shih tzu
> from a reputable breeder. I am still cnhecking w/ hs for a small designer for my parents have been checking for over a year now. The pure bred people here have made your point over and over OK? we get your point


Have you tried petfinder.com? Theres lots on there.
And its not the "purebred people" that are making a point, its the rescue people.


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## Lorina

A lot of times the smaller dogs, especially purebreds, get transferred to rescues. They tend to not do too well in shelter environments, and come off as excessively nervous or shy. In rescues, dogs typically live in a foster-home situation for a few weeks before being offered for adoption, so they have a better understanding of their true personality.

Also, many shelters have waiting lists for specific breeds or types. Last time I was at our local shelter looking at dogs, a young female pug was brought in. The staff there apparently knew someone on their waiting list who was pre-approved to adopt and was looking for a pug, and gave him a call. He was there, and the dog was adopted, before I even got around to looking at all the dogs in kennels.

Any good breeder is going to have a waiting list, and the pups will all have homes before they're even born. A lot of shelters and rescues operate in a similar way. They have waiting lists for specific breeds, genders, ages, and certain dogs never make it to the petfinder listing or adoption area.


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## OC_Spirit

I really like the siggestion of the Giant Schnauzer!!! they are awesome dog and make amazing working partners.

Another breed I thought of is an Airedale Terrier. I know of a person who does all kinds of work with his from bite work to dogsledding! Awesome guy!!!! He is very honest with his breeding practice and if he ever outcrosses to another breed to increase working ability in his dogs (such as Doberman) he never tries to hide it or lies and calls them purebreds. He will clearly show where he outcrossed (if he did), why he outcrossed, and what his plans are for the future. Amazing dude with amazing dogs!


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## pocky

definitely toy poodles or any poodle family. their Low shedding like my dog.


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## graficoartista31

I have a West Heighland Terrier/ Poodle mix and he is Adorable! I HATE the poodle look and i think the westie style hair helps to straiten out the curls. He looks like a miniture golden retriever to me. Semi wavy hair...but without all the shedding! Great dog.. here is a pic! 

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/Willow03/IMG_4149.jpg


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## DogsforMe

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Having seen geyhounds at pet expo's they seem like a nice friendly dog having been rehabilitated to family life after finishing their track career. You could also look into lure-coursing as a sport. Its done mostly with the hound group, I think.
I've been looking into the Flat Coated Retriever & went to The Royal Agricultural Show in Sydney recently to see them. I spoke to a breeder & he said they don't have a double coat & don't shed as much as other double coated breeds. They're about the size of a golden but black. They are a very people friendly gun dog. Another lady talking to him at the same time with a young golden puppy at home, was amazed that no hair came out of the coat each time she stroked the dog's back. She said she'd have hair everywhere each time she petted her goldie.
He also said they don't have the health problems that goldies have. He breeds goldies as well.


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## Ginny01OT

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



graficoartista31 said:


> I have a West Heighland Terrier/ Poodle mix and he is Adorable! I HATE the poodle look and i think the westie style hair helps to straiten out the curls. He looks like a miniture golden retriever to me. Semi wavy hair...but without all the shedding! Great dog.. here is a pic!
> 
> http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/Willow03/IMG_4149.jpg


I had a Westie before my standard poodle, she was a great dog and didn't shed.


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## Jen D

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

I have a great book that I will not loan out and I often let anyone use my books to read. This one is by the ASPCA Complete Guide to Dogs it is one of the first books I have ever fell in love with. There is so much info for people getting their first dog, medical problems related to the breed, whether or not it is a good dog for a first time owner, and the upkeep needed for that dog. It also gets into mixed breeds so if you decide to go to the pound to look you will have an idea what type of mix it might be. Good Luck!!!


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## snowyriver

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



Laurelin said:


> One thing to think about is that many labradoodle and goldendoodles shed just as much as labs and goldens do. It would be hard to find a truly non-shedding doodle. I wouldn't go with a doodle if shedding is a main concern personally. Too much variation with the crosses especially since most are F1 crosses.
> 
> A first gen. doodle sheds just like a lab. If you go with a F1B (2nd Gen.) or higher, they do not shed. THey are wonderful family dogs. You get all the features of a lab with out the shedding. Super smart and very easy to train. They vary in size from 15-100lbs. depending on the parents used.
> 
> PM me if you are interested in this breed. I can give you more info.
> 
> 
> 
> Wimble Woof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh... first off.... reputable breeder of doodles is an oxymoron... No reputable breeder will cross breed like this.... I know this is a whole new can of worms here, but has to be said.
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse me but, what is your definition of a reputable breeder? I see alot of AKC breeders doing some bad breeding. Everytime, we buy an outside dog from a big time AKC breeder, it seems to have a genetic health problem. And the breeder saying: OH I'm sorry about your luck, I can't help you ( I won't stand behind my dogs). After breeding labradoodles for 10 years, I don't seem to have these problems. But, I am very picky about the dogs I use. Oh. MY I even get my dogs OFA tested and do all shots/worming and all puppies are checked by my vet before they leave. Oh and I give a 2yr. health guarentee for 2yrs (hips and PRA) But, I'm a oxymoron. Which is fine by me, as long as I have happy clients.
Click to expand...


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## Ginny01OT

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

a labradoodle is not a "breed" therefore the word "breeder" for this type of dog is incorrect--many labradoodles are extremely high strung, they have bad hair and shed. I have seen several rescue doodles for these reasons. If you want a low shedding BREED you can go with a terrier or a poodle that I know of off hand. Labradoodles are nothing more than a mutt and why would you pay for that when there are sooo many in shelters needing homes.


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## SammyDog

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Dalmation has the coat of a greyhound/whippet but is bigger and thicker.


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## snowyriver

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



Ginny01OT said:


> a labradoodle is not a "breed" therefore the word "breeder" for this type of dog is incorrect--many labradoodles are extremely high strung, they have bad hair and shed. I have seen several rescue doodles for these reasons. If you want a low shedding BREED you can go with a terrier or a poodle that I know of off hand. Labradoodles are nothing more than a mutt and why would you pay for that when there are sooo many in shelters needing homes.


Sounds like you have only been around 1st generation labradoodles. The 1st gens. are just like you described. The 2nd gen. or higher DO NOT SHED! They are not hyper either. All mine lay around and sleep on the couch/bed all day. 

If owners would start taking dog ownership seriously, instead of treating dogs/animals like material things, we wouldn't have so many dogs in shelters. Also, if they would do their research and stop supporting these puppy mills, they would be buying a good quality pet. But a $50-$200 dog fits the pocketbook. THey don't think about the problems they may have down the road. No planning/thinking is involved. Instead, they buy a puppy,realize how much work it is, it doesn't look the way they want it to, does something bad, the cuteness wears off or what ever other excuse they come up with and drop it off at a shelter. When bringing a dog into a home, it should be treated the same as one of the human family members. Would they put their kids on the street? (Ok, I know some would) Unfortunately, we seem to be living in a: everything is disposable world. 

Also, from what I've heard from clients, it's very hard to adopt from a shelter. I've had people buy a puppy from me, because they couldn't get a puppy from a shelter. Main reason being: they would be gone more that 4 hours a day (people do have to work these days) or live in the country and do not have a fence. Or they have had bad experiences with the dogs they have adopted. 

I agree, you should adopt if you can. I do feel, if you have small kids it can be a risky thing. Nobody knows the real background of these dogs.


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## bmw325is89

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

I'm probably late on this post but you might want to look into ridgebacks also. As long as you're willing to take them on walks at least 3-4 times a week. Mine has been a great puppy so far and is taking to training very well.


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## Curbside Prophet

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



snowyriver said:


> If you go with a F1B (2nd Gen.) or higher, they do not shed. THey are wonderful family dogs. You get all the features of a lab with out the shedding. Super smart and very easy to train. They vary in size from 15-100lbs. depending on the parents used.


Red flag! Any breeder who would claim their dogs don't shed, I would turn away and walk out the door. Because this claim is simply not true...all dogs shed. Anyone making this claim, by my definition is a byb, nor a reputable breeder. Be thankful I'm not one of your clients. 

Why does your gurantee end at 2 years? I know of pet stores with guarantees that long. Why don't you guarantee your animals well into adulthood? Before I rescued Elsa (who *was* a puppy when rescued), I was on the waiting list for a schnauzer breeder who guaranteed her animals for 7 years, and I've heard of breeders who've guaranteed their animals for longer than that. If I'm going to buy an animal from a *reputable* breeder, I guarantee you I'll have a gurantee well into adulthood. If you're that confident about your breeding program, you would do the same.

An F1B dog is still crossed back to a purebred dog - a hybrid (which I affectionately call a mutt), because despite your claims, the genes are still assorted independently. There is no predictability of the F1B genes, nor are there genetic test available for an F1B labradoodle. Unless you're trying to establish a multi-gen labradoodle, which 10 years of experience would not qualify in my book, you are selling you are selling your dog on the same wave as other designer dogs are sold = not a reputable breeder. I'm afraid you jumped on the bandwagon too early. With no real standard, or useful genetic testing in place, I wouldn't consider any breeder of this type of dog reputable. In fact, I think it only hinders and progress that could be made on developing a new breed.


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## snowyriver

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



Curbside Prophet said:


> Red flag! Any breeder who would claim their dogs don't shed, I would turn away and walk out the door. Because this claim is simply not true...all dogs shed. Anyone making this claim, by my definition is a byb, nor a reputable breeder. Be thankful I'm not one of your clients.
> 
> Why does your gurantee end at 2 years? I know of pet stores with guarantees that long. Why don't you guarantee your animals well into adulthood? Before I rescued Elsa (who *was* a puppy when rescued), I was on the waiting list for a schnauzer breeder who guaranteed her animals for 7 years, and I've heard of breeders who've guaranteed their animals for longer than that. If I'm going to buy an animal from a *reputable* breeder, I guarantee you I'll have a gurantee well into adulthood. If you're that confident about your breeding program, you would do the same.
> 
> An F1B dog is still crossed back to a purebred dog - a hybrid (which I affectionately call a mutt), because despite your claims, the genes are still assorted independently. There is no predictability of the F1B genes, nor are there genetic test available for an F1B labradoodle. Unless you're trying to establish a multi-gen labradoodle, which 10 years of experience would not qualify in my book, you are selling you are selling your dog on the same wave as other designer dogs are sold = not a reputable breeder. I'm afraid you jumped on the bandwagon too early. With no real standard, or useful genetic testing in place, I wouldn't consider any breeder of this type of dog reputable. In fact, I think it only hinders and progress that could be made on developing a new breed.


I am very sorry you feel that way. I have no intentions of having a I'm right, your wrong discussion over this. I have a very good reputation for breeding quality puppies and have no need to justify myself. Everyone is entiled to their own preferences/opinions. Just because someone prefers a hybrid over a a purebred does not mean they should be bashed for it or that the dog is any lesser quality. You have good breeders and bad breeders in purebreds as well.


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## Curbside Prophet

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Don't deel sorry for me. I'm quite content with the requirements I place on breeders. I'm not one who will be easily duped by a breeder. Frankly, everyone should be that way. And just to be fair, I hold purebred breeders to the same standard. And yes, many do fail my test. Good breeders are far and few between. My approach to breeders is this; you are irreputable until proven otherwise.

I also wouldn't doubt that my standards are more stringent than most. I'm not seeking to bash anyone. I'm merely trying to point out that not all breeders are universally reputable, or to everyone, in spite of how convinced said breed believes they are.

If you talk to a good breeder, they will often state that they want to improve their breed. What I find from doodle and poo breeders is that they have a similar goal, except they want to improve their greed. You may consider yourself an exception, as do many purebred breeders, but as I will inform everyone I know that seeks to buy a pup...buyer beware.


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## snowyriver

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



Curbside Prophet said:


> Don't deel sorry for me. I'm quite content with the requirements I place on breeders. I'm not one who will be easily duped by a breeder. Frankly, everyone should be that way. And just to be fair, I hold purebred breeders to the same standard. And yes, many do fail my test. Good breeders are far and few between. My approach to breeders is this; you are irreputable until proven otherwise.
> 
> I also wouldn't doubt that my standards are more stringent than most. I'm not seeking to bash anyone. I'm merely trying to point out that not all breeders are universally reputable, or to everyone, in spite of how convinced said breed believes they are.
> 
> If you talk to a good breeder, they will often state that they want to improve their breed. What I find from doodle and poo breeders is that they have a similar goal, except they want to improve their greed. You may consider yourself an exception, as do many purebred breeders, but as I will inform everyone I know that seeks to buy a pup...buyer beware.


Very well said. I agree most doodle breeders are after the greed, there are a few of us out there that are more concerned about continuing to improve the breed. More people should have your standards when looking for a breeder of any breed. Like we both said, there are good and bad breeders of all breeds.


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## Maxysmom

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Hello,

I currently have a shitzu/bichon mix. No shedding at all. Also supposedly non allergenic and so far no problems.


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## flipgirl

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

What about a Standard or Giant Schnauzer? I like the Minis myself but since you want a large, non-shedding and above average intelligent dog, the standard or Giant Schnauzer would be a great choice. They're loyal and love to be with their owners but they are intelligent and it training is consistent, they are obedient.


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## OtterTheCanuck

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

If you liked the idea of the Giant Schnauzer (TOP NOTCH DOG!), but are worried a bit about the rowdiness it could cause around your kids, get a Standard Schnauzer then. Smaller, but basically the same temperment, only toned down a little bit, little less extreme, but still requires firm handling as a Giant would. Non-shedding also, of course.


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## tcasby

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



Curbside Prophet said:


> Don't deel sorry for me. I'm quite content with the requirements I place on breeders. I'm not one who will be easily duped by a breeder. Frankly, everyone should be that way. And just to be fair, I hold purebred breeders to the same standard. And yes, many do fail my test. Good breeders are far and few between. My approach to breeders is this; you are irreputable until proven otherwise.
> 
> I also wouldn't doubt that my standards are more stringent than most. I'm not seeking to bash anyone. I'm merely trying to point out that not all breeders are universally reputable, or to everyone, in spite of how convinced said breed believes they are.
> 
> If you talk to a good breeder, they will often state that they want to improve their breed. What I find from doodle and poo breeders is that they have a similar goal, except they want to improve their greed. You may consider yourself an exception, as do many purebred breeders, but as I will inform everyone I know that seeks to buy a pup...buyer beware.


In the last 6 months I met and interacted with hundreds of dogs. The majority pit/lab whatever mix rescues, but also purebreds of all kinds as well as wolf hybrids and doodles.

I can say without hesitation that the doodles are consistently good tempered, non-aggressive, playful, happy dogs. One of the best choices for a pet compared to large purebreds.

Very few are surrendered to shelters, and the ones that are are immediately adopted.

While doodle breeders are not breeding to improve the breed, neither are 90% of purebred breeders. Unlike most purebred breeders, they are not harming a breed.

As they have little breeding potential to buyers they are almost always neutered.

First time dog owner who choose to buy a doodle have generally put more thought into their choice of dog then first time owners of purebreds.

Evey doodle a quality breeder sells is one less potential sale for a pet store, and first time dog owners are far less likely to give up their doodles then first time owners of many large purebreds.

They are not just mutts. From a quality breeder they are mutts with health tested good tempered parents.

Simple fact. Labradoodles are Golden-doodles are great dogs and the world is better off with them then without them. 

You can climb back on you high horse now.


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## squirt1968

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

*TCASBY* I do not own a doodle but I LOVE your post and agree with you


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## Canadian Dog

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Hello Pinnacle:

I am responding directly to your post and do not want to get into a debate with other members regarding the ethics of breeding 'doodles'. I own a 5 month old golden retriever/poodle cross (this is what I tell people when asked what kind of dog she is - I never say she is a Goldendoodle as I'm aware this is not a breed). I never realized this was a 'designer dog' until I joined these forums after purchasing her. She is an F1b (which is 75% poodle 25% retriever) and I am absolutley amazed at what a good pup she is. I have had her since she was 8 weeks old and she was house trained perfectly within a month - I used a crate to train her. So far she does not shed. I brush her with a pin brush every day before we go for our walk. 

It's been 5 years since we had dogs (had 2 Lhasas and my husband and I were heartbroken when they reached old age and had to be put to sleep) and I didn't want to go through that pain again. For the last couple of years I've been thinking about getting another dog as I am home most of the time and live in a beautiful part of the country and not really interested in traveling any more. I decided to get a large dog and had always admired golden retrievers but I didn't want all the hair (Lhasas didn't shed either) and wanted a dog that would be a good companion, that wanted to be with me, would bark to alert me but not a guard dog, also one that was smart. I stumbled across info regarding 'doodles' and everything I read from owners just blew me away - everyone gushed about what wonderful pets they were. 

Where I live there are not a lot of dogs in pounds/shelters (tons of cats) and the ones available were rottweiller/shepherd/pitbulls/husky crosses etc . There was one 'doodle' to be rehomed in the whole province and it was a year old and I wanted a puppy. As we are getting older this is probably the last dog we'll own and for me to purchase this mix did not mean another dog in the pound/shelter would die because I wouldn't have taken any that were available - my choice. I thought I would have months of hard work with a pup and I can't believe how easy Molly has been - she is the sweetest, most gentle, smart companion - far more than I expected. She wants to be with me all the time. I can take her for walks and let her off leash in the woods and other safe places and she doesn't go out of my sight. I have a 22 month old grandson who she adores - we are working on the jumping up but other than that I have no complaints about her at all. We completed basic obedience and are now taking Tricks classes and in December are enrolled in Advanced classes. I have now become one of those owners who 'gushes' over what an amazing dog I have. The person I purchased her from does testing on her dogs and I'm confident that I have a healthy pup. Maybe I am just lucky - time will tell. I feel I have the perfect dog for my lifestyle and couldn't be happier. If you want information and also 'doodles' that are available for rehoming you can check http://idog.biz/index.html


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## Chubs

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

All you "Real Breed" people are killing me. Actually have me laughing out loud. It's a dog, man, get over yourselves. They all do the same things, eat, poop, pee and sniff each others butt. If you aren't going to show them what does it matter? .......Proud owner of a Goldendoodle mutt.


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## Tankstar

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



Chubs said:


> All you "Real Breed" people are killing me. Actually have me laughing out loud. It's a dog, man, get over yourselves. They all do the same things, eat, poop, pee and sniff each others butt. If you aren't going to show them what does it matter? .......Proud owner of a Goldendoodle mutt.


No they dont all do the same things. Every breed is differnt. Whats the problem with doodles? They are first not a breed, and people are pumping them out left right and center with little to know regard to having healthy puppies. No health tests for the parents ect. Its all about money. They are mutts and are being sold (atleats around here) for over 2000 dollers it is crazy. I personaly think any one who buys one for a price like that is just insane, you are just helping some idiot take a nice vacation in mexico or buy a new car. As ANY GOOD breeder would not make any money (over veryyyyyy little) at all when you bred correctly.


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## FilleBelle

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Chubs, I don't think the deal here is that people feel purebred dogs are somehow better than mutts. The deal here is that people are wondering why there are mutt "breeders" when we have thousands upon thousands of mutts in shelters and rescues waiting for homes. There's really no reason to create mutts...we've got enough of them already.


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## Taz Monkey

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

The point is not "real breed" vs. not "real breed". Thepoint is that people are breeding MUTTS, and making money off of it. A doodle, poo, puggle, boxador, etc blah blah blah...they are all mutts that can easily be found in and animal shelter and saved from death. That is the point. A good breeder will not cross breed two different breeds of dogs. I don't care if your dog has every health clearance available (and I hope it would if you're breeding it), breeding mutts is wrong. I have 2 mutts...one happens to be a beagle/dachsund mix (beagleweenie?) and the other is a lab mix od some kind. I also have a golden retriever, also a rescue, but definitely purebred. I love them all 100% the same, whether they are real breeds or not.


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## honeybear

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Just thought I'd add my two cents. I have a 6 month old labradoodle, mutt, lab/poodle cross whatever you want to call her. She is the joy of my life, I have never thought I could love a dog as much as here. I did not get her from a BYB I got her from a reputible breeder in Australia the name is Rutland Manor feel free to do some research. To say that all breeders who breed "designer dogs" are doing it to make a quick buck is just wrong. The breeder I dealt with does lots and lots of testing, interviews, you name it she does it. If you do your research and buy from a good breeder what is the big deal.


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## blackrose

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Okay, I had to bite at this one....bad me....*hits self on head*


> In the last 6 months I met and interacted with hundreds of dogs. The majority pit/lab whatever mix rescues, but also purebreds of all kinds as well as wolf hybrids and doodles.
> 
> I can say without hesitation that the doodles are consistently good tempered, non-aggressive, playful, happy dogs. One of the best choices for a pet compared to large purebreds.
> 
> Very few are surrendered to shelters, and the ones that are are immediately adopted.
> 
> While doodle breeders are not breeding to improve the breed, neither are 90% of purebred breeders. Unlike most purebred breeders, they are not harming a breed.
> 
> As they have little breeding potential to buyers they are almost always neutered.
> 
> First time dog owner who choose to buy a doodle have generally put more thought into their choice of dog then first time owners of purebreds.
> 
> Evey doodle a quality breeder sells is one less potential sale for a pet store, and first time dog owners are far less likely to give up their doodles then first time owners of many large purebreds.
> 
> They are not just mutts. From a quality breeder they are mutts with health tested good tempered parents.
> 
> Simple fact. Labradoodles are Golden-doodles are great dogs and the world is better off with them then without them.
> 
> You can climb back on you high horse now.


"In the last 6 months I met and interacted with hundreds of dogs. The majority pit/lab whatever mix rescues, but also purebreds of all kinds as well as wolf hybrids and doodles.

I can say without hesitation that the doodles are consistently good tempered, non-aggressive, playful, happy dogs. One of the best choices for a pet compared to large purebreds."

In the past two years I've worked at a bording/grooming/vet's office. I've met quite a share of different dog breeds and mixes from all different backgrounds. (I actually met my first Afgan Hound the other day! It was totally cool.) 
The 'doodles that I have come into contact with have not been any different than a normal dog, just with more hair. One 'doodle was so rambunctious that he almost bowled me over every time I stepped near him. Another also tried to bite me while I was bathing it. Other breeds and mixes have done each of those plenty of times as well. I've met perfectly well behaved dogs of every breed and mix, even those that have a bad rap (Chows for example). I've met some wonderful 'doodles. I've met some rotten 'doodles. I've met some wonderful Labs. I've met some rotten Labs. I've met some wonderful Bulldogs. I've met some rotten Bulldogs. I've met some wonderful Chihuahuas. I've met some rotten Chihuahuas. 
Saying a doodle makes a better pet than another large breed dog is saying a Lab makes a better pet than any other large breed dog, or a Boxer/Lab mix is the best large breed dog, or a Saint Bernard is the best large breed dog, or....I could go on. My point is, no dog is the "best large breed dog" (except for my Lab of course!  ) 

"Very few are surrendered to shelters, and the ones that are are immediately adopted."
Hm. 
http://disc.server.com/Indices/213827.html
http://www.poomixrescue.com/
http://search.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi?animal=Dog&breed=Poodle&preview=1&exact=1

Although, being surrendered to a shelter really has nothing to do with anything. I've met plenty of even tempered well adjusted dogs that were surrendered to a shelter with not fault of their own. Just the owner's fault. You don't really see Mastiffs or Bulldogs in shelters either, but that doesn't say anything about the dog. Just that they have a high price tag and people aren't as willing to throw them away like trash.

"While doodle breeders are not breeding to improve the breed, neither are 90% of purebred breeders. Unlike most purebred breeders, they are not harming a breed"
Yep, you are right, 'doodle breeders aren't hurting a breed persay. What they are doing is taking away the homes of, essentially killing, all of the mutts that were unfortunate enough to end up in a shelter. Thus it is with any unethical breeder - a reason we fight tooth and nail against them.

"As they have little breeding potential to buyers they are almost always neutered."
Thinks:*keep comments to self, keep comments to self!!* 
People keep mutts intact all of the time (and not "pricey" mutts like the poodle mixes, but just plain ol' mutts). How do you think I ended up with my three dogs? And most of my neighbors' with their lovely mutts? How do you think you get the mixed breed momma being dumped at a shelter with her litter of ten mixed breed pups? 

"First time dog owner who choose to buy a doodle have generally put more thought into their choice of dog then first time owners of purebreds."
Oh, yes, that's right, because my friend walking by the petstore window who sees a Maltipoo and falls in love and wants to go get it the next day really thought about what kind of dog she would be bringing into her home. Of course, my other friend just wants a Chow because they look like bears. Tons of people get a dog because they like how they look. My other friend just wants a Chihuahua to tote around in a purse. Then my other friend wants a 'doodle because they are fluffy. Not really any thought behind that.

"Evey doodle a quality breeder sells is one less potential sale for a pet store, and first time dog owners are far less likely to give up their doodles then first time owners of many large purebreds." 
Logic is escaping me at the moment. Just because we have reputable breeders breeing GSDs, Weims, Rotties, Labs, and Basset Hounds doesn't mean I see them any less frequently in a petstore. In fact, our local petstore is supplied by "quality breeders" (BYBs), not a puppymill. Also, I would say more people would be prone to succumb to buying from a petstore when they realize how long it would take for a reputable breeder to have a puppy availible to a pet home. 

"They are not just mutts. From a quality breeder they are mutts with health tested good tempered parents."
Yes, having a health test is always a good thing. I'm not going to go against that. Let me throw in a scenario here. Let's just say that Chloe, my beautiful, fuzzy, angelic (with a hint of demon), brown eyed, lovely Chloe, wasn't spayed. Let's also assume that she was health tested and passed all of her tests with flying colors (OFA, CERF, Vwd, heart, hearing, and everything else). She had agility titles, as well as her CGC and at least a CD in obedinece. Only one catch: Chloe is a Collie/Australian Shepherd mix. Would it be wrong to find a Collie, or an Aussie, that was also health tested and had some titles, and breed them and sell the pups for lots of money to loving homes? *YES*. It doesn't come down to how good of a dog Chloe is, it comes down to the fact that I am breeding a mutt _*for a family pet*_ (key phrase there), when there are MILLIONS of healthy, even tempered mutts dying around states. I'm not trying to create a working dog, I'm not trying to establish a breed, I'm not trying to preserve a peice of history, I'm not trying to do anything but fill in a gap for a healthy, even tempered family pet when that gap is already overflowing! 

"Simple fact. Labradoodles are Golden-doodles are great dogs and the world is better off with them then without them."
They may be great dogs. I've met some who were, some who weren't. I've met plenty who have filled the lives of their owners. My mutts are all great dogs. The Boxer in at the clinic right now looking for a home is a great dog. My life would be empty without my three furbabies and I thank God for them everyday. But then I go down to a shelter and hear the dogs crying, or I see the helpless looks in the eyes of dogs past that were killed because they didn't have a home. 
'Doodles may be great dogs, but what about the great dogs that are just aching to have a home to love them, a home to hold them when they are sick, a home to care for them in their golden years, who want a home with children to romp and play with, who are killed by the thousands because this world has no room for them because of countless breeding practices? This doesn't just pertain to breeders of 'doodles, but all irresponsible breeders. I think of the plight our mutts and purebreds are in right now and my heart aches. 

It doesn't come down to the fact that 'Doodles are good dogs, it comes down to the fact that so are countless others. It comes down to the fact of irresponsible breeding practices and the countless dogs being killed because this world has no room. I would pitch this same argument to someone wanting to breed their Corgi down the street because, "Corgis are just such good dogs, and she is healthy, and life would be so dull without them." 

"You can climb back on you high horse now."
I'd much prefer a Welsh Pony, please. 



> I did not get her from a BYB I got her from a reputible breeder in Australia


 Actually, is it my understand that the Australian Labradoodle and the one being the states are different? I was under the impression that the Australian Labradoodle was a work in progress to become a true breed, while the others are just mutts. However, I could be wrong.


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## digits mama

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

.......tiptoein in...... Check out the Cairn Terrier breed. They do not shed. They are smart, funny, and a heck of alot of fun..They are considered a small breed, But with thier girth and vitality..Its like a tank with legs. My puddles is 12 lbs now and may be 14 by the time she fills out. Good Luck......... Tiptoeing out............


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## ozzy

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

I didn't read all the responses so sorry if this has been covered or I have posted already (I forget!) but just like the Cairn the Australian terrier does not shed either. It is one of the reasons I picked the breed. They are great dogs and are very small but not dainty. Really very similar to the cairn but maybe a little calmer. They are supposedly the calmest and easiest of terriers.


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## Ella'sMom

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Wow what an intriguing post. I just read each and every one (while my 3 children basically just destroyed my house). Anyhow...

I have a cockapoo. Or a spoodle. Or a cockadoodle-doo. Whatever the hell you want to call her. I have decided to call her a mutt. I like that better for some reason. Maybe because I spent a pretty penny on her from a breeder and then I found this website and became educated on this subject. 

First off...let me start by saying, I love my dog. Ella is the best. She doesn't shed at ALL (and after a lab I must say it's a beautiful thing). She is small enough for me to pick her up and move her. She is smart as hell and is potty trained at 4 months. I could switch her foods on a daily basis and her poops would still look like tootsie rolls (did I just type that?) She loves everyone and everything. She s low maintenance and just a wonderful dog. That being said..................

After I got her and came here and got slammed (yeah I did....but I still love you guys).....I one day googled these words... "cockapoo rescue" and up came a ton of pictures of these adorable little dogs that looked just like Ella. They needed homes because 1) We just had a baby and Skittles isn't a priority anymore or 2) We don't have time for Shnookums these days. The list was endless and I sat there with my mouth agape (great word.....never used it before). 

I loved the breeder I went through. He was very nice and kind and yada yada yada. Would I do it again? No. Would I have gone and rescued one? Yes. Will I ever support a BYB again? No. Pay $1000 for a mutt?? No. Do I love my Ella? YES! But.........live and learn. My next dog will choose me from the other side of a cage at a shelter. My adorable cockapoo (hate that name) will probably be by my side for about 16 years (god willing) and she and I will hopefully make a difference by speaking out against BYB's and puppy mills and designer dogs.


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## Shalva

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*



Ella'sMom said:


> Wow what an intriguing post. I just read each and every one (while my 3 children basically just destroyed my house). Anyhow...
> 
> I have a cockapoo. Or a spoodle. Or a cockadoodle-doo. Whatever the hell you want to call her. I have decided to call her a mutt. I like that better for some reason. Maybe because I spent a pretty penny on her from a breeder and then I found this website and became educated on this subject.
> 
> First off...let me start by saying, I love my dog. Ella is the best. She doesn't shed at ALL (and after a lab I must say it's a beautiful thing). She is small enough for me to pick her up and move her. She is smart as hell and is potty trained at 4 months. I could switch her foods on a daily basis and her poops would still look like tootsie rolls (did I just type that?) She loves everyone and everything. She s low maintenance and just a wonderful dog. That being said..................
> 
> After I got her and came here and got slammed (yeah I did....but I still love you guys).....I one day googled these words... "cockapoo rescue" and up came a ton of pictures of these adorable little dogs that looked just like Ella. They needed homes because 1) We just had a baby and Skittles isn't a priority anymore or 2) We don't have time for Shnookums these days. The list was endless and I sat there with my mouth agape (great word.....never used it before).
> 
> I loved the breeder I went through. He was very nice and kind and yada yada yada. Would I do it again? No. Would I have gone and rescued one? Yes. Will I ever support a BYB again? No. Pay $1000 for a mutt?? No. Do I love my Ella? YES! But.........live and learn. My next dog will choose me from the other side of a cage at a shelter. My adorable cockapoo (hate that name) will probably be by my side for about 16 years (god willing) and she and I will hopefully make a difference by speaking out against BYB's and puppy mills and designer dogs.



EXCELLENT EXCELLENT post 
you do us proud


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## Lorina

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Ella's Mom, I mean this in a totally platonic way, but I love you.


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## Ella'sMom

*Re: Low shedding dogs? Need to pick our first dog.*

Awww thank you Shalva and Lorina.


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## 8888plasma

I personally have a Coton De Tulear. The Cotons have hair not fur like us so they don't shed at all. They are non-allergenic and have great personalities. Also very great with kids. They are a toy breed so wont trample your kids. However they cost roughly from $800-1200 so if you're concerned about cost, it's not the best choice. They are also very smart and when they chase you and you run around furniture they stop and wait for you to run torwards them so they can get whatever it is they wanted from you. Potty trains very quickly aswell.


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## eyeopening

Hi! Here's an article that discusses different breeds of dogs that shed very little. It may help you make your decision. Best of luck to you. 

http://gomestic.decenturl.com/five-small-non-shedding-dog-breeds

Apollo


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## LMH

I always thought a mutt was a dog with more than one breed in it. So a doodle type or designer breed is a cross or mixed breed not a mutt. I think that word it being used to make those people feel inferior for buying from a BB. Hopefully people who are looking for a cross breed again will use a shelter. But bullying anyone into it and after the fact will not get your point across. How bout something like"i'm glad your dog has such a good home, I work at a shelter and see these mixed breeds all the time, next time why don't you look there and tell your friends to look there too".


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## Norboo

All you closed minded people that stated your point regarding pure breeds this pure breed that, mix breed this and mix breed that, just remember all dogs were genetically altered by selection. All dogs are mix breeds at one point. 

Get a mix breed from the shelter instead of buying a doodle? Would you bring home unstable mix breeds into your home where your toddlers live? 

Why is it your business what people select for their pets and how they go about selecting what they want? 

Did you adopt your child or have your own? So many orphans in the world, why breed your own? 

I say this to all the “adopt from the shelter don't buy a mutt” people. Get a life.


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## rosemaryninja

Norboo said:


> All you closed minded people that stated your point regarding pure breeds this pure breed that, mix breed this and mix breed that, just remember all dogs were genetically altered by selection. All dogs are mix breeds at one point.


Yes. This point was several hundreds of years ago. It was also when parent clubs were being started and breed standards were being written. If doodles don't have either of these things, they can never even begin to be considered a real breed. 



> Get a mix breed from the shelter instead of buying a doodle? Would you bring home unstable mix breeds into your home where your toddlers live?


I've met many, many well-balanced mix-breed rescues at my local shelter. I'm also pretty sure that the numerous people on this forum who have very stable mix-breed rescues may be offended by that. Dogs aren't just taken to the shelter because they have behavioural problems. They're also taken there because they were given as gifts to unready owners. Or because a son has gone to college and now no one wants to look after the dog. Or because "she digs holes", or "she's not as cute as she was as a puppy", or "she's too hyperactive". 

Also, most backyard breeders don't even show their dogs or do temperament testing, so what's to say a breeder's doodle will be anymore balanced than a shelter doodle?



> Why is it your business what people select for their pets and how they go about selecting what they want?


Because it affects millions of lives of dogs all over the country. If every shelter dog out there had a forever home, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with backyard breeders and people who buy from them.



> Did you adopt your child or have your own? So many orphans in the world, why breed your own?


Are you actually comparing buying a doodle from a breeder to having your own child? Have you considered that a child is your own flesh and blood, and that's a very precious thing? I would choose to have my own child over adopting one just for the precious knowledge that the child is a part of me. 

If you buy a doodle from a breeder, is he your own flesh and blood? No. Neither is the one in the shelter. Get it? They're exactly the same. So why sacrifice one to support unethical activity?



> I say this to all the “adopt from the shelter don't buy a mutt” people. Get a life.


Maybe you should learn about saving lives first.


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## RonE

I can't believe it.

You all are debating designer breeds on a thread started over a year ago? If the OP hasn't found a dog by now, he wasn't trying very hard.

If you're going to have this debate for the 85th time, at least start a new thread and call it The Great Designer Dog Debate - Part 85. That way, someone won't get sucked into it thinking it's a thread about a human looking for a dog.


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