# Too Much Frontline?



## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

My dog has picked up a few pounds since his last vet visit and he was on Frontline Plus for "medium" dogs-the one that ranges from about 25-44 pounds. Since he's now 48 pounds, they boosted his meds I last bought to the larger 45-88 pound meds. The smaller version has 1.34 ml of the ingredients and the larger has twice or 2.68 ml.

I'm a bit afraid to give him that much since he's not a large dog but a medium sized Corgi-just put on some weight. Thoughts on this? I don't feel comfortable with this change. The vet didn't exactly recommend it but that's what the girl at the counter gave me when I asked for Frontline Plus. She apparently saw his weight and that's what she gave me. I didn't notice until I got home.


----------



## kerplunk105 (Mar 5, 2008)

Personally, I would have stuck with the smaller one. Idk about your dogs, but with the summer months coming, mine def slim down and he'll probably loose the 3 pounds.


----------



## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

I would also stick with the smaller dose!


----------



## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have small graduates I used when doing photography that I could measure half the ammount from these larger vials or I could just eye ball it. Either way, he'll get less than the full amount. He's not a Lab and don't need 2.68 ml. This is how people that aren't cognizant about what they give their dogs end up burying them. I'll be watchful from now on.


----------



## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

This likely will not be an issue for you to give him the full amount. The toxic dose for dermal application of fipronil (frontline) is somethin like 5000+ mg/kg. Frontline, Advantix, etc... all of these products undergo testing on dogs at 5 times the dose that your dog would ever get. The 5x dogs have to show no adverse effects for the drug to pass. 

It's recommended by many parasitologists that when a dog is within about 5 or 10 lbs of the next weight class that it should go ahead and bump up for the higher dose. 

I applaud you for being careful about what you're giving your dog, but, there isn't much (if any) risk to giving the whole vial of product.


----------



## sarahdvm (Apr 22, 2010)

I agree with Mr. V - the risk of toxicity is very, very low. The higher dosage will just more likely be toxic to your wallet.  In all seriousness, if your dog is exposed to fleas or ticks, allergic to flea bites, or if you are concerned about tape worms, go up to the larger size. Your dog will be protected. 

Be blessed.


----------



## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

My main concern was because he's just barely over the new weight class and I have also heard of pets dying because they were given the wrong dose. I didn't receive all that info so it could be someone had a dog and a cat and gave the cat the dogs dose-I don't know and Frontline's website doesn't have a "Contact Us" link for me to ask...poor PR, IMO.


----------



## sarahdvm (Apr 22, 2010)

Where did you hear of pets dying? Is it a published report? I can guarantee you, if there was more than an isolated case of an animal having an allergic reaction to frontline, the company would pull their drug for more testing. frontline has been used for years and years. The worst I ever saw in private practice was a pet that had some itching and hair loss at the application site. The LD50 (which is the toxic dose where more than half of test subjects - rats - die) is EXTREMELY high - no where near the dose they use on animals to kill fleas and ticks. The risk your pet runs of getting tapeworms from fleas, flea allergic dermatitis or tick borne disease (dependent on where you live - can range from lyme disease to rocky mountain spotted fever) is much, much higher than that of your pet dying from frontline. 

A vet's two cents.


----------



## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

I didn't say Frontline was the problem as I've been giving him Frontline Plus for about four years. If you read again the problem was giving him too much of it and pets do die from overdoses just like we do. My sister has a neighbor whose daughter had some small breed that was given too much of another brand and died from it. I'll say it again, it's not the brand it's the dosage that concerned me. 

Immediate effects of pesticide overdose include vomiting, diarrhea, trembling, seizures, and respiratory problems from what I've read so, it can be a real problem. That includes Spot-On pesticides such as Frontline, Zodiac, Defend, Bio Spot, Adams and Advantage which can trigger adverse reactions in dogs and cats, shorten life spans, cause terminal illness, and premature death.

http://www.fleacontrolbook.com/natu...n-the-last-5-years-from-topical-flea-control/


----------



## sarahdvm (Apr 22, 2010)

Thanks for your response. I agree - the OTC spot ons are associated with significant s/e that include all that you have reported. These drugs, the same that are in flea collars, are often very toxic  - I don't recommend them. I also have seen the rare reaction to frontline - maybe 1/750 dogs (and don't use it on cats!), but this is the dog, not the topical. Frontline and advantage have saved so many of my clients from spending hundreds of $$ on chronic FAD and other painful conditions. If you are that concerned and your dog doesn't have a flea sensitivity, and you don't mind that your dog wil not be completely protected, then stick with the smaller dose, and maybe add in Interceptor to cover your bases. Not that my opinion matters...cause it really doesn't.  Seeing cases of flea allergy dermatitis EVERY DAY that I have to tx with antibiotics and steriods (yuck)  and thousands of dogs suffering from an easily treatable condition makes me a little bit passionate.


----------



## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

I went from Top Spot to Frontline Plus about four years ago and have complete faith in it. To date, knock on wood, he's never had a flea or tick. Being mostly an inside dog I don't really worry about those varmints much. I know they can be picked up anywhere but we dont tread the back woods areas and he's never kenneled or seen a doggy day care center so, I like to think I have this situation under control for the most part.

He doesn't appear to have any problem with this product so I'll continue. I'd rather give him the lower dose and be more comfortable with it than the larger (twice as much) dose. It's mainly for larger dogs in that weight range and he's everything but large, although his weight falls in that catagory so, for him I think he's covered.

Interceptor is what I use as well. I'm a little bit of a stickler about what he's given and detest when I get a flyer or email about him needing his "cocktail" shot-DHCLP vaccine but, I won't go there. Ft Dodge would love eveyone to get those unnecessary annual boosters but; that's a subject by itself.


----------



## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Mr. V said:


> It's recommended by many parasitologists that when a dog is within about 5 or 10 lbs of the next weight class that it should go ahead and bump up for the higher dose.


Is this a percentage thing?

I ask because Wally is 11-12 lbs. The next step up is 23-44 lbs.

So if I needed to use this, I should just go ahead and get the dose that's designed to be good for dogs up to 44 lbs even he's just 12 lbs because that's right on the edge of the next size up if I add 10 lbs to his weight?

How do I know if it's 5 or 10 or "about" (say 3 or 12, or 7 or 8)?


----------



## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

KBLover said:


> Is this a percentage thing?
> 
> I ask because Wally is 11-12 lbs. The next step up is 23-44 lbs.
> 
> ...


I'd definitely NOT give him that much. He's a long way from the next step. Unless he gets up to that weight, say 28-30 pounds I wouldn't even consider that. Ask you vet. He's a little guy and to me,that would be too much.

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Frontline+Plus-prod10459.html


----------



## sarahdvm (Apr 22, 2010)

Slick50 said:


> I'm a little bit of a stickler about what he's given and detest when I get a flyer or email about him needing his "cocktail" shot-DHCLP vaccine but, I won't go there. Ft Dodge would love eveyone to get those unnecessary annual boosters but; that's a subject by itself.


It sure is. Depending on his age and his risk of exposure to infectious diseases, you could elect to have titers done on him instead of having vaccines, or move to a three year protocol. BTW - the lepto and corona in your DHLPP vax are extraneous. Ask for distemper, hepatitis, parvo and parainfluenza combo w/out corona or lepto (the lepto serovars are constantly changing anyway).


----------



## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

KBLover said:


> Is this a percentage thing?
> 
> I ask because Wally is 11-12 lbs. The next step up is 23-44 lbs.
> 
> ...


Stick with the product size you have now. As you suggested, it is a percentage thing. 


And, slick, Fort Dodge no longer produces those vaccines  Pfizer bought them.


----------



## Slick50 (Jan 19, 2010)

sarahdvm said:


> It sure is. Depending on his age and his risk of exposure to infectious diseases, you could elect to have titers done on him instead of having vaccines, or move to a three year protocol. BTW - the lepto and corona in your DHLPP vax are extraneous. Ask for distemper, hepatitis, parvo and parainfluenza combo w/out corona or lepto (the lepto serovars are constantly changing anyway).


The last time he was vaccinated I elected to have the Parvo done one week and waited 3-4 weeks before the Distemper vaccine and they wer modified live type We can go three years on the rabies thankfully. That's all he had and that was year before last. I completely agree that we should protect our pets from all the nasties out there but(I promised I wouldn't go into this) the immume system has memory cells and annual or booster shots do not provide added protection. In previously vaccinated adult animals the antibodies from previous vaccinations block the new vaccine. Antibody levels are not increased, memory cells are not increased.

Memory cells persist for life and titers of antibody levels do not accurately predict immunity or lack of immunity. I see little if any justification for the corona virus and unless Lepto is prevalent in your area, I see no need for it either. Protocols have changed over the years and more vets are beginning to see this and I think at a minimum every three years is more than sufficient for vaccinations. Annual administration of rabies, distemper and parvovirus vaccine does not elevate antibody titers or expand the number of memory cells...the immunity is not enhanced. Bordetella is another vaccine that for my particular little guy is useless. It's really no more than a cough at best and unless you're boarding, showing or putting him in a day care situation where he will be around many others, my little guy is not very likely to get "kennel cough" so, he doesn't get that either.

I think the annual vaccines can and have caused more trouble with auto immune disorders than any other single criteria and I'm finding more and more evidence to substantiate the need of taking the bull by the horns, so to speak, when it comes to the so called "annual booster shot" regime.

I've said way more than intended on this but if someone feels the need for added protection or the perceived protection annual boosters supposedly brings then by all means go for it. I'm not convinced they're necessary and are in fact detrimental to their health in the long or short run.

Thanks for that info, Mr. V-didn't know Pfizer had bought them out. Maybe they will inform the countrys vets that all the chemicals Ft Dodge wanted to pump into our beloved pets bodies yearly isn't as necessary as they thought.


----------

