# Changing dog food for Shih Tzu



## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

Hello all,

I decided to join this forum to hear what people suggest as a good dog food for a shih tzu. Our little guy is actually quite big for a shih tzu, weighing in at 21 lbs, but he's rather long and definitely not overweight due to this. Anyways, we've had him for a couple of years. As a puppy, we had him eating California Natural because of his allergies to other dog foods. After he turned 1, we transitioned him onto Innova Adult Small Bites. He really liked this food and we found that he would eat this without developing any reactions to the food. However, this past summer, after hearing that P & G bought Natura, the company that makes Innova, Evo, California Natural, etc., we decided to change his food as we heard that P & G would most likely modify the dog food formula and use cheaper ingredients. We switched to Orijen Adult and let me tell you, he has absolutely loved it! His stools have been harder, which from what I've read is a good thing. Additionally, he seems to have lost some weight and gained muscle at the same time. After researching online, it seemed as though this was one of the best dog foods made. However, with our dog only being a little dog, the protein content, which before Orijen made a recent change to their formula, was about 38%. Comparing this to Innova, at 24%, it was definitely a significant change. After 4 or 5 months of eating Orijen, my wife and I were a little concerned that the high protein content may be a little hard on his kidneys. We went to our local pet store yesterday and decided to go back to Innova Adult Small Bites. The pet store that we go to is very good and they carry high quality foods. I told the person working about our situation and he said that Orijen is an excellent food but it may be a little high for small dogs that aren't as active as other dogs. Now I'm reading that Proctor and Gamble may have already changed the dog food formulas as many people have complained that their dogs have developed soft stools and diarrhea from the new bags of Evo, Innova and a few others. Basically, I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice for my situation. Again, we love Orijen, and our dog does too, and I'm attributing this to the increased amount of protein in the food. But, we just worry that because he is not a large active breed, 38% protein may be too much for a shih tzu. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If he's doing well on the food (good weight, solid stools, etc.) I wouldn't worry about the protein level. Dogs are made to process meat protein, and there's no indication that high meat protein is damaging to healthy kidneys.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

how are his teeth, ears and eyes?


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## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

His teeth seem to be great, considering we like to brush his teeth a couple of times a week. Being a shih tzu, he's prone to ear infections. We used to take him to the groomers and it was like clockwork - a couple of days later he would get ear infections. We found an amazing product called Zymox on Amazon which contains all natural enzymes. Using these drops as a preventitive twice a week, his ears have been great. I would recommend this to anyone whose dog has chronic ear infections. They make a Zymox ear cleanser which is what we use twice a week, and a medicine drop product that you administer to the dog when he actually gets ear infections. His eyes drain a little, as do most shih tzus. Our vet told us to clean them with saline so we will start doing that.

May I ask why you're asking about his teeth, ears, and eyes?

Thank you. Like I said, we love Orijen and so does he. I just get worried that there isn't conclusive evidence in either direction on whether too much protein is bad for dogs.


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## Tavi (May 21, 2010)

I personally am a great fan of Orijen and Acana products since they are made with such high quality ingredients and honestly I haven't heard of any types of problems feeding it to smaller less active dogs. But one thing to consider is if you're worried about his activity level and the protein count...why not increase the dogs activity level? A longer walk, more yard play, more training sessions, all of these can be used as a balancing point to help your dog work through the extra protein. That being said if the dogs stool is firm and they seem happy on the Orijen I personally wouldn't worry. Now if its loose stool,then I'd change to lower protein or increase activity levels to help balance it out more.


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## kelliejh (Dec 28, 2010)

I had a 15 lb shih tzu for 12 years and now have a 12 week old shih tzu. So I have been through a lot of foods with them. I Think if things are going good then no need for change again. But just make sure that the high protein is not affecting his allergies and starting them back up. My old shih tzu was on science diet for awhile and had HORRIBLE allergies and we never related it to the food until about a year later. Come to find the high protein and processed corn was making his skin itch constantly where he was itching himself raw. I am sure you are aware of this, as it seems you have had experience with allergies and your shih tzu before. But if he is doing good with the food and seems healthier and happier i say stick with it!


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

i sometimes worry about too much protein, be it for dogs or humans....but that's an aside and i guess, another discussion...

i was asking because certain foods contribute to shih tzu ears, eyes and teeth decay...those wonderful brachycephalic dogs with their need for braces....: )

and i was thinking, that as long as his teeth are good and there is no gingivitis nor periodontal disease...as long as his ears are clean ( we used zymox, too, and we also plucked his ears during grooming...helped alot....)

as to eyes.....draining clear goopies is one thing...we found that keeping the hair short on their faces helped with that...if ever he had yellow or green drainage, then you have a problem..

sounds to me as if you have a healthy dog.....

and quite frankly, with all the reading i've done on kibble and raw, the evidence goes either way on both issues....if your dog is healthy on what you're feeding.....take him for a few walks because little dogs need exercise too...you should have seen my kimba on a treadmill.....all my shih tzus walked and also treadmilled....so does my corgi mix and pug, too...

i agree with the above poster, too....increase the exercise...if you're feeding a higher protein, make sure your dog has plenty of fluids....to keep the kidneys flowing...and you should be fine.


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## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks for the info everyone! He gets exercise throughout the day by running around the house. When we get home from work we like to put him in the backyard so he can run around and we take him for walks a few times a week. I'm going to start taking him for a walk once a day. It's tough now with the weather since it snows a lot where I am, but I think it's a good way to justify giving him a higher protein food as long as I can provide him with sufficient exercise. I have never seen my dog eat dog food the way he eats Orijen. Even when we were feeding him Innova, he would sometimes hesitate or pause while eating. Now that he eats Orijen, you'd think he has never eaten before. He absolutely loves it. I'm going to do all that I can to keep giving him Orijen I think. If I do notice any sort of reaction to Orijen, I will make sure to address it immediately, but so far so good.

MagicRe, thanks for the input. Our dog's eyes drain, but it's clear (goopies lol) And wow, they sure can smell. We try to make sure the groomer trims the hair around his eyes as short as possible. We have tried to do this ourselves inbetween haircuts but we get nervous since he can get fidgety when we hold him down haha. We've resorted to just washing his eyes with a wipe and saline every day. That's hilarious about your dogs using the treadmill. That must be so funny to watch.

Kelliejh, your picture is adorable. That dog looks just like ours when he was a puppy. Shih tzus make very cute dogs, especially when they're so tiny with all that fur. My wife and I are probably going to get another one soon for our little guy.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

all due respect....running around the house is not exercise, just as it isn't for humans...

we used to think the same way with our shih tzus (had four of them)...and then we started walking them and realised they were getting muscular....which is different than free play....

just something to think about...


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## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

Oh I know, I mentioned that as opposed to keeping him in the crate while we're at work. We let him run outside for 20 min in the backyard at night. I would feel better giving him a walk everyday though. It's good exercise for everyone.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

true dat....

reason i bring it up is you are feeding a higher protein diet than many dogs get...increased exercise, the formal kind, rather than free play, will really get his blood flow going on a regular basis.....take care of the kidneys when they're younger and they will pay you back kindly when they get older....lots of fluid and lots of exercise, especially with a higher protein food....

glad you're not crating....whilst you're away....that'd be no fun LOL


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## Tavi (May 21, 2010)

Snow is quite an evil thing when it comes to dog walking season, icy roads and sidewalks even more so! LoL I actually run my pups on a treadmill in the house when the weather won't cooperate. Its actually quite handy and honestly a good way to get some exercise for them when the weather just won't cooperate. Now of course outdoor walks are better since they get to engage their mind and senses in whole new goodies along with the exercise, but if you're interested check Craiglist or local 2nd hand stores. You can generally find a good cheap treadmill for around 50$ or less and really it doesn't have to be one of those amazing machines people want nowadays, you're dogs really won't care if the screen is all sparkly or 10 years old. LOL


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Tavi said:


> Snow is quite an evil thing when it comes to dog walking season, icy roads and sidewalks even more so! LoL I actually run my pups on a treadmill in the house when the weather won't cooperate. Its actually quite handy and honestly a good way to get some exercise for them when the weather just won't cooperate. Now of course outdoor walks are better since they get to engage their mind and senses in whole new goodies along with the exercise, but if you're interested check Craiglist or local 2nd hand stores. You can generally find a good cheap treadmill for around 50$ or less and really it doesn't have to be one of those amazing machines people want nowadays, you're dogs really won't care if the screen is all sparkly or 10 years old. LOL


you're right about that...we have a treadmill for ourselves and our dogs....they both get on it together when the weather is nasty...and, since you also live in or near seattle....we both know the weather can be yucky...although we don't get the snowstorms i was used to on the east coast...: )


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## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

So how does that work? Do your dogs actually enjoy and willingly participate on the treadmill? Do you have to restrain them or something lol? I can't see my dog just walking on a treadmill. I would love to get one if I knew he would use it correctly. I would think I would place him on the belt and he would have no clue what to do haha.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

it took some patience and lots of food...if it worked, check out my avatar...you'll see my eleven year old corgi mix and my last shih tzu kimba on the treadmill...now we're training bubba, who is a pug and three and very stubborn....


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## Tavi (May 21, 2010)

Its actually a lot easier than you would think to get a dog on the treadmill, and I will happily say that Buddy adores his time on it though he gets annoyed when his sister is mocking him while he's doing his time. LoL Dia is a very fearful dog but it only too two sessions before she was relaxed enough to walk easily on the machine. Here's how I trained my dogs to do it! ^^

First I put them on their leash and led them up to the machine, I kept the machine on but not actually running the treads and called the dog up to explore it. I stood on the tracks and let them come up to join me on it. Then what I do is kind of straddle the treadmill, so I'm on the side foot areas and the dog is on the treads kinda between my legs. Usually my dogs find this position hilarious and love to rub against me while I'm doing this, LoL. Then I turn on the treads at the lowest setting at first...initially you get a bit of confusion and maybe a little panic attempt to jump off the tracks. But the combination of being on the leash and between your legs should make this easy to deal with. Buddy and Dia both figured out very quickly that they were supposed to walk with the tread, usually they'll try to move forward faster than the treads so I up the speed pretty easily once they start actually moving on the machine. I keep the pace setting at a nice brisk walk and just let them relax and go with it. I encourage them and talk to them while they're walking so they know they're doing what I want. But I learned quickly no touching while they're walking. Hehe if I stop to pet they attempt to stop and then zoom off the treadmill! ^^ I keep the leash very loose just in case that happens btw. If they do get off or fall off, then I pause the run, put them back into position and start again. I only let them off the machine when I'm done with them. Buddy learned how to do it almost instantly, we have a big old Nautilus and he's completely comfortable around it. Now he'll run the treads with no leash, though he still prefers if I stand on the machine with him rather than next to it. Dia on the other hand prefers if I stand besides the machine and she can watch me as she walks. Dia is still on the leash though since she's very fear oriented, she can panic pretty easily at outside influences and I have to be sure I can control her reaction and not let her run off without finishing! ^^


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## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

Haha that's awesome. Thanks for the advice! I definitely want to try this.


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## philovance (Jan 7, 2009)

kyle6286 said:


> We just worry that because he is not a large active breed, 38% protein may be too much for a shih tzu. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


With all due respect, I'd suggest you're overthinking this. You could feed your dog a diet of exclusively canned foods and he'd do just fine, with a protein percentage typically 40% on a dry matter basis. Why not alternate between the two foods and for variety's sake use different kibbles within the product lines?

I personally think the concerns about the P&G takeover of Natura are overblown, at this point in time. While Natura products have never been our primary foods, we continue to feed them, particularly Evo, from time to time. If there comes a time when Natura changes anything, whether publically or secretly, for better or for worse, this message board will be on fire with warnings and suggestions. 

By the way, the controversy over protein, which again I think is overstated, revolves around kidney function. The best way to monitor kidney function is to have blood and urine tests done on a regular basis. Our cat was tested prior to undergoing anesthesia for a dental cleaning that was long overdue. I was shocked to learn that she had a rather severe kidney infection. She had a long course of antibiotics, her tests normalized, and we went ahead with the dental. But I never attributed her kidney problem to a protein rich diet. More likely it was that her mouth was much dirtier than we realized and plaque led to her infection. To be safe we fed her low phosphorus canned foods for a while after she was cured. Phosphorus is much harder on the kidneys than protein.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Tavi said:


> Its actually a lot easier than you would think to get a dog on the treadmill, and I will happily say that Buddy adores his time on it though he gets annoyed when his sister is mocking him while he's doing his time. LoL Dia is a very fearful dog but it only too two sessions before she was relaxed enough to walk easily on the machine. Here's how I trained my dogs to do it! ^^
> 
> First I put them on their leash and led them up to the machine, I kept the machine on but not actually running the treads and called the dog up to explore it. I stood on the tracks and let them come up to join me on it. Then what I do is kind of straddle the treadmill, so I'm on the side foot areas and the dog is on the treads kinda between my legs. Usually my dogs find this position hilarious and love to rub against me while I'm doing this, LoL. Then I turn on the treads at the lowest setting at first...initially you get a bit of confusion and maybe a little panic attempt to jump off the tracks. But the combination of being on the leash and between your legs should make this easy to deal with. Buddy and Dia both figured out very quickly that they were supposed to walk with the tread, usually they'll try to move forward faster than the treads so I up the speed pretty easily once they start actually moving on the machine. I keep the pace setting at a nice brisk walk and just let them relax and go with it. I encourage them and talk to them while they're walking so they know they're doing what I want. But I learned quickly no touching while they're walking. Hehe if I stop to pet they attempt to stop and then zoom off the treadmill! ^^ I keep the leash very loose just in case that happens btw. If they do get off or fall off, then I pause the run, put them back into position and start again. I only let them off the machine when I'm done with them. Buddy learned how to do it almost instantly, we have a big old Nautilus and he's completely comfortable around it. Now he'll run the treads with no leash, though he still prefers if I stand on the machine with him rather than next to it. Dia on the other hand prefers if I stand besides the machine and she can watch me as she walks. Dia is still on the leash though since she's very fear oriented, she can panic pretty easily at outside influences and I have to be sure I can control her reaction and not let her run off without finishing! ^^


i have a bubba.....a little fearful guy who is afraid of aluminum foil....where do you live and when can you come over? the thought of training this one to the treadmill fills me with dread LOL


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## Tavi (May 21, 2010)

LoL Probably not that far from you actually...I'm up on the north east side of Seattle! Do you take your pups to the local dog parks? You can find us as Marymoore most weekends! =)


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## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

I let my nerves get the best of me. We decided to ween (spelling ?) our shih tzu off of Orijen despite the fact that he loves it. The lack of evidence for whether or not a high protein diet is potentially dangerous, especially for a small dog, made us nervous. We decided to go back to Innova for the past couple of nights by incorporating some into his Orijen. The second night we did this, he threw up a little clear liquid, I'm not sure if he just drank too much water, and then later he threw up yellow, which is usually this color when he throws up and I think he may have just eaten too much food. Could this be a cause of switching from a grain-free dry food to a food that has some grains? We love Innova but are worried about the whole P & G issue, so we're looking into Merrick dry food as it is a middle of the road protein dry food with 27%. I should mention that we made this change on Monday, and after the whole throwing up thing on Tuesday night, he's been fine. We're probably just worrying too much lol.


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## ipreferpi (May 9, 2009)

Hey, I actually work in a store that still carries Natura products. We have made an agreement with P & G that as long as they do not change the existing formulas, or the sourcing of ingredients we will keep the food. If they choose to change, we will drop the entire line. I get customers everyday with concerns over the products, but as of now, no changes have been made. The manufacturing plant that processes the food is also a separate facility. So if you decide to return to Innova, that is how things stand as of right now. I don't know if the situation will change, but I will say that it seems kind of unlikely to me that P&G would change a food that is making them money, in a way that would only lose them money...

Orijen is a nice food though, but not for every animal. I have 2 dogs and a cat, all of my animals have been on high protein diets (38%-41% for the dog and 50% for the cat). I changed 1 dog to orijen 6 fish, and changed the cat to the cat/kitten formula, after a few weeks, both animals that had switched had UTI's, the dog that was not switched was fine. Neither of the animals who had UTIs had ever had them before. Obviously Orijen is not for my pets.

In the end it comes down to feeding what's right for your individual dog.


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## kyle6286 (Jan 4, 2011)

ipreferpi said:


> Hey, I actually work in a store that still carries Natura products. We have made an agreement with P & G that as long as they do not change the existing formulas, or the sourcing of ingredients we will keep the food. If they choose to change, we will drop the entire line. I get customers everyday with concerns over the products, but as of now, no changes have been made. The manufacturing plant that processes the food is also a separate facility. So if you decide to return to Innova, that is how things stand as of right now. I don't know if the situation will change, but I will say that it seems kind of unlikely to me that P&G would change a food that is making them money, in a way that would only lose them money...
> 
> Orijen is a nice food though, but not for every animal. I have 2 dogs and a cat, all of my animals have been on high protein diets (38%-41% for the dog and 50% for the cat). I changed 1 dog to orijen 6 fish, and changed the cat to the cat/kitten formula, after a few weeks, both animals that had switched had UTI's, the dog that was not switched was fine. Neither of the animals who had UTIs had ever had them before. Obviously Orijen is not for my pets.
> 
> In the end it comes down to feeding what's right for your individual dog.


Thanks for that information! We bought Merrick last week and now he's solely eating Merrick for his meals. He loves it which is great. We still give him the Evo biscuit treats which seem to be very good. If I decide to mix his food every now and then I think we will use Merrick and Innova. I love Innova and our dog seems to repond very well to it, but for now we're letting him get used to Merrick Turducken and Before Grain.


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