# Mix between Sib. Husky and KBD- possible???



## Xerxes (Dec 8, 2011)

First of all, I'd like to say hello!

My question is simple- is it possible to achieve a 50/50 mix between a female Siberian husky and male Karelian bear dog? What do you think? Will it be hazardous to the bitch and the puppies?


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## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Why do you ask this question? Where does your interest stem from? Do you own either breed or know much about them? How do you mean hazardous?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm sure it's _possible_--dogs are dogs, genetically speaking, and providing the male isn't a lot larger than the female.

But I don't think it's advisable. The puppies would probably be completely unsuited to being pets; there are maybe 3 people in the world who would be able to handle a dog like that. And I don't know what kind of working ability they'd have. . .most people don't have any need for a bear dog/sled dog cross.


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## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

"Just off to go sledding through bear country" "Don't forget the Kabusky!"...yeah that probably wouldn't happen


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## Xerxes (Dec 8, 2011)

Indeed, I own 3 female Siberian huskies.
The purpose of this cross-breeding is a mountain dog with a little more aggressive behaviour than the SH.
Hazardous- I mean hazardous for the bitch when giving birth to the puppies- like higher chances for hydro-cephalia or other threats.


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## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

why would you want hgiher aggression ina sled dog? Wouldn't that mean higher dog to dog aggression in a remote area..?


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Why would you EVER want to breed to create more aggression? If you are looking for a dog to protect, there are breeds out there that have that trait.

In my personal opinion the suggestion of INTENTIONALLY cross breeding these dogs is appalling. 

And, as Willowy already stated, there is very little demand for a dog like that. And even if there were a demand, so few people who could handle it. So many people can't handle a husky. Period...and the KBD...so few people know what they are or how to handle them.

Recipe for disaster.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Seriously...?? Like...really?

You do realize that Siberian Huskies are NOT meant to be protection dogs. They are NOT meant to show ANY signs of aggression?
They are sled dogs - used to pull sleds. If you have a strong enough bond with your dogs - a Siberian Husky can very well be a great protector in more ways than just say - fending off a bear. Like saving your life by NOT letting you head your team onto thin ice.

There are countless stories of Siberian's saving their humans from wild animal attack or fending off bears or wolves to protect their people.

Why ruin a great breed by INTENTIONALLY adding aggression? Aggression is a trait people look to REMOVE not add.


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## Charis (Jul 12, 2009)

Niraya said:


> Seriously...?? Like...really?
> 
> You do realize that Siberian Huskies are NOT meant to be protection dogs. They are NOT meant to show ANY signs of aggression?
> They are sled dogs - used to pull sleds. If you have a strong enough bond with your dogs - a Siberian Husky can very well be a great protector in more ways than just say - fending off a bear. Like saving your life by NOT letting you head your team onto thin ice.
> ...


Amen. I am curious why anyone would want to add aggression to an already difficult to handle dog - siberians can be so head strong, stubborn, high exercise demands, mouthy - why add aggression? Right now the breed has it's undying friendliness on the short list of traits people can handle. I can't think of anyone who would want to breed aggression into a dog for any good reason. Even protection breeds are bred to be protective but to distinguish between a need for escalation or not. A good protection dog is not just "more aggressive."


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Also, I just want to echo what has been said - that an intentional breeding like this is a complete recipe for disaster.

There is also absolutely no guarantee that you'd only get a "little bit more" aggressive dog. What would you do when you ended up with "a lot more" aggressive dog? Or if ALL of the puppies in the litter were like that?

No good will come from a breeding like this. None at all. So *please* do *not* do it.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Perhaps TS wants to keep the pups her/himself. If that is the case then I don't think it's any of our business to say he/she can't/shouldn't. (though I can understand the motivation) 

That said, I'm not sure whether the character of pups resulting from such a breeding will have the temperament you're looking for. Perhaps there already is a sled dog in existence with guarding ability? Perhaps some sort of laika?


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

How is it then okay for us to tell any person who cones here looking to breed their x breed to x breed that it's not okay and that they're doing it for the wrong reasons - but in this instance it is for some reason okay just because they may or may not keep the pups?

If that's the case it is of no ones business to ever speak out against someone breeding their dogs for any reason. That is at least what I gathered from what you said.

Im sorry if you didn't mean that in the way I took it - sometimes I don't understand everyone's points clearly as the text doesn't portray someone's intentions very well and they can be taken very wrong. So I that's not how you intended I apologize. But if it was - I'd like to understand the reasoning behind ______ something like this. (maybe backing isn't the right word - but not dissuading of something like this?)


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Avie said:


> Perhaps TS wants to keep the pups her/himself. If that is the case then I don't think it's any of our business to say he/she can't/shouldn't. (though I can understand the motivation)


You don't think we should bother to warn someone away from ending up with a litter of possibly 6-8 puppies that could grow up to be highly dog-aggressive? Okay then.

OP, there is absolutely no guarantee that a 50/50 mix will have half the traits of the mother and half the traits of the father. Any or all of those pups could be much more KBD-like than husky-like and would be unsuitable for your purposes AND too much to handle for your average person to take as a pet. I would not advise you to go forward with this breeding. It's asking for trouble.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

The OP lives in Bulgaria. . .possibly in a wild kind of area where one may be in need of an aggressive mountain dog. And where breeders are not exactly abounding. If so, and the breeding will produce the kind of dog they want/need, than there's nothing wrong with that. But they should really consider whether the breeding WILL produce what they want/need, and whether they can properly provide for the puppies, regardless of how they turn out. Personally, I think it would be better to stick to established breeds who are meant for that kind of thing (or mixing 2 similar breeds) rather than play with mixing 2 dissimilar (in temperment) breeds. Never know what you're going to get.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

Niraya said:


> How is it then okay for us to tell any person who cones here looking to breed their x breed to x breed that it's not okay and that they're doing it for the wrong reasons - but in this instance it is for some reason okay just because they may or may not keep the pups?


In my opinion, those who breed dogs for working purposes are well within their rights to create mixes that they think can do the job better than either of the parent dogs, provided that they have homes for all the puppies/are willing to BE the home for all the puppies if things don't work out (and shoulder all the costs that that entails), and are still willing to do this if one or all of the pups don't turn out anything like what they wanted from the cross. I don't believe that culling is a justifiable action anymore. 

Those breeding to make more aggressive dogs need to be extra careful about what happens to those dogs, as they're creating _weapons_. A dog with aggression in its DNA that is not socialized properly as a puppy and does not have a competent owner in the right environment is a ticking time bomb that WILL end up hurting someone. If you're going to be experimenting with aggression, you need to know your stuff. 

The most important thing to understand about aggression in dogs is that it's not like mixing colors -- if you breed a very aggressive dog to a dog that is not at all aggressive, you will very likely NOT get dogs that exhibit "medium" aggressiveness. Instead, the majority of the pups will exhibit exhibit aggressive tendencies that are closer to the aggressive parent. There's a reason that many animal shelters have started euthanizing the puppies that come in with very aggressive mother dogs -- too many of these puppies got returned to the shelter with impressive bite records. 

There is also a reason that aggression has been bred out of the siberian husky (and never introduced back in) -- aggression makes it very hard for siberian huskies to do their jobs (pulling medium-sized loads long distances in a pack setting). 

I don't think this breeding is a good idea, as Xerxes does not appear to have much experience raising and training Karelian Bear Dogs (where the aggression is coming from), and also demonstrates a considerable amount of dog breeding ignorance by asking the first question that he/she did. I'm also not sure that this mix would fill a niche that's currently empty -- what job would this dog have that it does better than either a Siberian Husky or a Karelian Bear Dog?


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## Trilobite (Nov 13, 2011)

If you're crossing dogs for a working purpose then I dont really see much problem. In NZ we have "pig dogs" which are basically crosses of border collies, pitbulls, bull terriers, greyhounds and anything really that does the trick. They're not bred as pets but for a working purpose.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Niraya said:


> How is it then okay for us to tell any person who cones here looking to breed their x breed to x breed that it's not okay and that they're doing it for the wrong reasons - but in this instance it is for some reason okay just because they may or may not keep the pups?
> 
> If that's the case it is of no ones business to ever speak out against someone breeding their dogs for any reason. That is at least what I gathered from what you said.
> 
> Im sorry if you didn't mean that in the way I took it - sometimes I don't understand everyone's points clearly as the text doesn't portray someone's intentions very well and they can be taken very wrong. So I that's not how you intended I apologize. But if it was - I'd like to understand the reasoning behind ______ something like this. (maybe backing isn't the right word - but not dissuading of something like this?)


You understood me wrong, but I may have worded things the wrong way. As you can read in my previous post (this is also for Crantastic) I also think a breeding between these two dog breeds might not be the best thing to do. What I meant to say with my first reaction is that by keeping the pups for her/himself, he/she is not adding to dog overpopulation and does not cause the pups to become anyone else's burden but her/his own. So íf the breeding goes wrong, he/she will have done it to his/herself. It's their risk to take. A risk we can warn for, sure. But if he/she want to be the potential owner of these dogs, it's a decision they'll make for themselves. Also please take into account Xerxes lives in Bulgaria, the situation may be entirely different than what any of us are familiar with. 

Now, if she/he is breeding the pups for someone else, or even worse, just for the money or for having creating 'something special/unique', then I'd say go ahead with the warnings. And warning isn't wrong, it really isn't. But from the very limited information we have been given, I think it's wrong to jump to conclusions and go all out with the negative. 

I hope I've made myself a little more clear  If not, then my apologies. I hate pulling this card, but English is not my native language and my choice of words may not be accurate enough at times. 

EDIT: I agree with Trilobite, Willowy and mostly Cricketloops too. *is slow poster*


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm not opposed to breeding for working purposes. I.e. better sled dogs or better working dogs what have you like cricketloops said. My concern was the reinforcing of a breeding to reintroduce aggression back into Siberians. 

And no one here least of all the OP said that the breeding was for working purposes. They just stated they wanted more aggression in their Siberians. What about for dog fighting?


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Niraya said:


> And no one here least of all the OP said that the breeding was for working purposes. They just stated they wanted more aggression in their Siberians. What about for dog fighting?


I have no idea. OP hasn't given much info. Though the trusting side of me likes to believe it's not for dog fighting purposes.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks for clearing that up, Avie! I know it's not your first language and again I apologize for having misunderstood! I just wanted to make sure I understood everything


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Avie said:


> I have no idea. OP hasn't given much info. Though the trusting side of me likes to believe it's not for dog fighting purposes.


I ideally like to give people the benefit of the doubt as well.  But when it comes to aggression its kinda like my cup runneth over. . There really isn't much info to go on as you said. But everyone's more keen to jump on the "it's okay to breed as long as they're working!" but no one went to the darker side of things to look at what other possibility these dogs could be used for.

Like I said, Siberians are not -known- for their protective instinct and as Cricketloops said - the aggression was bred out of them for very specific reasons. But I know for a fact that if something endangers a Siberian's human they are first and foremost to act and will actively defend them. Think of what they do - out on the trails pulling the sleds they had to be independent and smart enough to go against what they're told to do if something to them doesn't feel right (i.e. going out on thin ice) - they also had to fend off packs of wolves, bears and moose when/if they ever came across them.

The protection instinct just isn't there unless it needs to be and the Siberian feels that you're worth saving. xD


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## Xerxes (Dec 8, 2011)

First of all thanks to all of you and especially to Keechak for sending a link over to me- to a sled dog forum!
Next- the descendants of this possible and still imaginary mix are not to be given away for pets. They are to be looked after in a mountain region, semi-wild location.
I need something like a laika, yes, and because there aren't any in the region, and I don't have a dog for a guarding job- I thought about breeding such a "mix" because of the closeness in the breeds (not the temperament, but the fact that they're both northern breeds). Also- I've heard and read a lot about KBDs aggression towards other animals incl. dogs (outside their own pack!) but not people. If this is true, then I'd still like to think about creating this maybe to be called hybrid dog- there are a lot of stray dogs in my location, and sometimes they form packs and feed on discarded rubbish, dig under fences and so on. I'd prefer a northern type breed, not a rotweiller or something, because of the climate plus because of them getting along with huskies (I hope).


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

A gun shot into the air is just as likely to scare off the wild dogs rather than making an unstable mix of dogs. For some other ideas. If you're only using them because of strays.

I'm glad you aren't going to use them for fighting or give them away. But understand that just because they are "northern" breeds doesn't mean that they actually share anything in terms of closeness. (I know nothing about KBD's - but it's like saying well a Siberian is like a Shiba Inu is like a Chow Chow simply because they're northern breeds - I hope you understand what I mean )

Cricketloops said it pretty well


> The most important thing to understand about aggression in dogs is that it's not like mixing colors -- if you breed a very aggressive dog to a dog that is not at all aggressive, you will very likely NOT get dogs that exhibit "medium" aggressiveness. Instead, the majority of the pups will exhibit exhibit aggressive tendencies that are closer to the aggressive parent. There's a reason that many animal shelters have started euthanizing the puppies that come in with very aggressive mother dogs -- too many of these puppies got returned to the shelter with impressive bite records.


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## stationgirl (Nov 18, 2011)

Why not just get a KBD as a guard, instead of creating a potentially confused and dangerous mixed dog? That way you get what you want without the potential problems.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Xerxes said:


> If this is true, then I'd still like to think about creating this maybe to be called hybrid dog- there are a lot of stray dogs in my location, and sometimes they form packs and feed on discarded rubbish, dig under fences and so on. I'd prefer a northern type breed, not a rotweiller or something, because of the climate plus because of them getting along with huskies (I hope).


That last bit is definitely not guaranteed. You could end up with a cross-breed that is intolerant of other dogs, including your own.


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## unconditional (Feb 27, 2012)

I have a KBD/husky-mix. Se is a-two-year-old female. I got her a few weeks ago and she is an amazing dog. She loves people but doesn't tolerate other female dogs, which is absolutely normal for a Karelian bear dog. 
I don't have a farm of anything to "protect", she lives at the backyard of our row house with my 10-year-old husky. KBDs are not user for protection anyway. They should be familiar with everyone because they are made to work with people. 
I use my dog for skijor and moose hunting. Well, she hasn't even seen a moose yet, but when the fall comes, she will. She is also a great family dog.
If you have any questions considering this mix or KBDs, contact me. KBDs are amazing things when they are allowed to be what they are.

edit. Karelian bear dogs are NOT closely related to wolves. Only a few of these dogs are really brave enough to bark at a bear. 

a photo of my dog: 
http://i.imgur.com/tVp9l.jpg

edit2. http://animal.discovery.com/videos/dogs-101-karelian-bear-dog.html
XD this video was really ridiculous

edit3. I have to mention that I don't support breeding mixed dogs. I think that there are enough mixed dogs without homes anyway so adoption is much better option if you want a mixed dog. I prefer purebreds.


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## Allison Cardinal (Jun 1, 2012)

Hi -- I am the owner of 3 Karelian Bear Dogs (KBDs). I suggest that if you need a dog to "guard" or protect your property or yourself from wild animals such as bear, coyotes, wolves, etc., then you should get a Karelian. However, they are not necessarily going to protect you from other people, as aggression to humans has been bred out of the breed. I don't really see the need to purposely breed a Karelian and a Husky together as I would not want to mess around with the genetic makeup of the Karelian as you may breed out some of the instincts that make it a Karelian. My male KBD will follow me and essentially run wide circles around me when we walk, figuring out if there is any dangerous animal nearby, and circling back to check on me. I think you would rather have the KBD doing that than pulling a sled. I have thought of teaching my KBDs to pull a sled, but have always imagined that if they smelled something, they would go running off into the bush and crash me and the sled into a tree!


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## unconditional (Feb 27, 2012)

New things found about my dog. 
She's not a pure husky/KBD-mix. Her sire is a wolfdog, mother is KBD-mix. She has a little german shepherd in her too. And husky, of course.


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## Allison Cardinal (Jun 1, 2012)

Unconditional-- your dog is quite striking. She has a regal look about her!


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## unconditional (Feb 27, 2012)

Thank you! 

It appeared to be that my dog has only a little bit of husky in her. KBD is about 65%, wolf 8%. 
Other breeds are siberian husky, jämthund (swedish elkhound), german shepherd and alaskan malamute.


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## Allison Cardinal (Jun 1, 2012)

Thank you for the photo, Unconditional. She is very striking and quite the mix of breeds -- an excellent mix. Not too much Wolf. I was told by my late husband (a Native American from Canada who knew both dogs and wolves) that having too much wolf in a dog is not a good thing, that the dog could then not be trusted around people other than its owner, especially children. My female KBD is like yours and does not tolerate other female dogs. My males, on the other hand, tolerate both male and female dogs, but are wary around males.


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## unconditional (Feb 27, 2012)

Thank you for your post! She really is an excellent mix. When I bought her I was told that she is a KBD/husky-mix. Later I found her brother on the internet and then got her breeder's email. 
I also contacted the wolfdog association of Finland and got some information about her.

Actually we have made some progress around other females. If I keep her under control all the time, she won't attack unless the other one attacks. I've been walking her (free & muzzled) with my friend's female dogs and she even plays with them sometimes. But she is always wary, as you said. I have already considered taking the muzzle off. She could do without it around those females, but the thing is not that. She could be a danger to the reindeer if she didn't have the muzzle on. When the dogs run freely and a reindeer runs from a bush... well, you can imagine 4 gsds, a husky and my dog running after it. 
My dog is the only one who has the instincts to kill it, though.

In normal situations I don't use the muzzle. Only when she's running freely. I walk her off-leash sometimes, but she's always under my command.

When we are training (we train obedience) she won't notice other dogs (male or female) at all. She is really obedient and wants to learn. Loves to train. She's not so drivy as a GSD, but has the same potential to learn and do. This winter we've actually planned to go to our first obedience trial!


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Allison Cardinal said:


> Thank you for the photo, Unconditional. She is very striking and quite the mix of breeds -- an excellent mix. Not too much Wolf. I was told by my late husband (a Native American from Canada who knew both dogs and wolves) that having too much wolf in a dog is not a good thing, that the dog could then not be trusted around people other than its owner, especially children. My female KBD is like yours and does not tolerate other female dogs. My males, on the other hand, tolerate both male and female dogs, but are wary around males.


I'm sorry but that info is wrong about animals having much wolf in them are not able to be trusted around anyone other then they're owners or children. I have two high content animals and both adore children.


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## Allison Cardinal (Jun 1, 2012)

I understand how you feel. However, my late husband was a Cree Elder and Traditional Healer. He spent many years in the bush observing animals and knew about animal behaviour. He also knew about dog/wolf hybrids. He felt very strongly about this, and knowing what I know about him, I believe what he said. You are very fortunate to have such wonderful hybrids.


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## Cindy23323 (Mar 31, 2010)

Just because he came a crossed a couple that was like that does not mean all were like that. That’s a very wrong accusation. That would be like (for example) the comments you see people stating that because one pit bull went off and attacked someone means that the entire breed is bad and will attack. It’s totally untrue.
Plus someone’s race has nothing to do with them knowing about certain animals


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## Allison Cardinal (Jun 1, 2012)

I am not going to argue with you -- you have your belief and I have mine. My Karelian Bear Dogs are a primitive breed of dog. Fortunately, aggression to people has been bred out of the breed. However, I am still wary of them around children and people they do not know because of what they are. And I am careful around other dogs, too.


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## AlayahAlise (12 mo ago)

Xerxes said:


> First of all, I'd like to say hello!
> 
> My question is simple- is it possible to achieve a 50/50 mix between a female Siberian husky and male Karelian bear dog? What do you think? Will it be hazardous to the bitch and the puppies?


 I'm rather curious aswell. My male Karelian is best friends with my neighbor's female Siberian Husky, and I think they may have bred. I'd love to learn more about this mix


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## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

This post is over a decade old, so I'm closing it to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread on this topic, or to join in any of our current discussions.


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