# Potty Training and behavior backslide all of a sudden



## Gates1026 (Mar 14, 2007)

In about the last 7 days or so, I have seen quite the backslide with my 5 month old puppy. Where before we would maybe see 1 or 2 potty training accidents per week, we now have had about 4 or 5 in the last few days. I am not really sure how to explain it, nothing with our schedule has changed and we havent made any changes to her diet.

Along with this I have seen a bit of a change in her attitude. She has started to become a bit more stubborn. Where before I could get her to sit and lay down on command, it now takes me a lot longer. She would rather stay in a time out (which I know she hates) than to simply sit for me. 

I had another post here about her also getting a little excited when outside playing and growling (snarl almost) and biting. The worst of this case happened yesterday when I tried to pick her up after she had been playing a little too rough. When I tried to grab her or to untangle her from the leash, she just went nuts and bit me like never before (I have the marks to prove it). I finally got her picked up and took her inside, by the time we were halfway in she was licking my face (although I was still fuming) like nothing had happened. 

I know they go through a "teenage" type phase, I am guessing this is what I have run into. Is her behavior out of the ordinary or is this normal?


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Sounds pretty normal. When they hit this phase they seem to forget everything that you have taught them and start testing you. Here is where you need to step it up, up the training (in positive way) and perhaps put a little NILIF into play. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
With the potty issue - dogs don't start to really grasp and understand the idea of housebreaking until about 6 months of age. They may be accident free, but the concept of pottying outside doesn't really start to sink in until about that age. So you may have to back up a bit and really stay on top of her, take her outside more often and really beef up on the praise. 
In this link there are about 10 training articles that deal specifically with puppies, take a look and see if there are a couple you can make work for you. 
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm#puppy

Lastly, be patient and consistent, it will pay off in the end.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I agree with what Box said. But in addition, I would have the vet check a urine specimen for a UTI just in case. Once you rule out medical causes for the urinating accidents then you can assume it's behavioral.

I will tell you that my pap has been the most challenging to train. She is far more intelligent than any other dog I've owned, except for being on par with my aussie shep. You really have to think two steps ahead of where you think your pap is headed to. Be firm and consistent. Use the crate when necessary again to prevent accidents in the house. Or put her in a safe area with a gate. 

Our pap also had a "biting" attitude at this age. I contacted our breeder (gotta wonder if it's the same guy!) and he told me that he likes to breed for a little bit of attitude! "It makes them show better in the ring." Well, it took just one bite to my husband to readjust that attitude. He is not a dog person. She had a good hold on his hand and he whipped her off with enough "attitude" that she went sliding across the room on the linoleum floor! At first I thought it was horrible, what he did. But quite frankly, we never had another "attitude" incident, ever. 

I'm not encouraging you to be harsh with your dog. I'm sure there are other ways to handle it. But a pap can quickly get out of hand and be a spoiled little brat if not controlled. I know she's so small and sweet. But she's still basically a dog with all the normal canine behaviors. 

If ou haven't already done so I would also suggest a couple of rounds of obedience classes. And more outlet for energy is good too. Once we finished two obedience sessions we moved on to agility lessons, which most paps just love. And it gets all the pent up energy expelled as well.


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## britishbandit (Dec 11, 2006)

I'd have to think the behaviors are coinsiding with your dog teething as much as anything else. But it never hurts to get a vet to check things out, and definately keep up on training and NILIF. Things will improve.


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

I agree with the above- but have you had her checked by a doctor for a urinary infection? That would explain the accidents, females are more prone to this, and if she is tender from retained urine- why she doesnt want to sit.. 
* this is more of a medical note than behavior...


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> In about the last 7 days or so, I have seen quite the backslide with my 5 month old puppy. Where before we would maybe see 1 or 2 potty training accidents per week, we now have had about 4 or 5 in the last few days. I am not really sure how to explain it, nothing with our schedule has changed and we havent made any changes to her diet.


At 5 months, your puppy is still a baby. However, she may be eating and drinking more, which would require more frequent potty breaks. She may have a UTI, but you'll need to have her checked by the vet to determine this for sure.



> Along with this I have seen a bit of a change in her attitude. She has started to become a bit more stubborn. Where before I could get her to sit and lay down on command, it now takes me a lot longer. She would rather stay in a time out (which I know she hates) than to simply sit for me.


Do you reward her for doing what you ask of her? How long do you expect her to sit and/or down? 
What's her daily routine?
What breed is she?



> I had another post here about her also getting a little excited when outside playing and growling (snarl almost) and biting. The worst of this case happened yesterday when I tried to pick her up after she had been playing a little too rough. When I tried to grab her or to untangle her from the leash, she just went nuts and bit me like never before (I have the marks to prove it). I finally got her picked up and took her inside, by the time we were halfway in she was licking my face (although I was still fuming) like nothing had happened.


Sounds like she's got a lot of pent-up energy needing release, and maybe a little bored. She needs mental stimulation along with physical release, both of which can be provided with structured games that help her learn to think, and to problem-solve. Simple walks with us don't really cut it, although walks are important. What kind of daily activies does she participate in? Remember, a tired puppy is a good puppy!



> I know they go through a "teenage" type phase, I am guessing this is what I have run into. Is her behavior out of the ordinary or is this normal?


This is pretty common, and normal puppy behavior (she's not in adolescense yet). Dogs thrive on structure and routine. Training sessions should be brief (5-10 min. several times throughout the day), and should be FUN! For her, and for you.


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## Gates1026 (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks for everyone who replied to this thread. It made me feel a lot better to know that I wasnt alone. I guessing that she was just going through a "stage", but wanted to make sure that nothing was out of bounds. It also happened that I posted this after we had a pretty rough night with her, she seemed to be acting out a LOT more than normal. The last 3 days she has been an angel. 

Just to clarify, you are right on when you say she might be eating/drinking more. She has went through a growth spurt in the last 3-4 weeks and has just started to eat considerably more. The accidents that we have seen havent been a lot of #1, mostly #2, would could be explained by the fact that she is indeed eating more. 

My wife and I had a bit of a pow wow this weekend and decided that we were both going to step up the assertiveness when it comes to her behavior. This has actually been working pretty well so far. Along with this, when she starts growling, we have been picking her up (she is only about 4.5 lbs) and putting her on her back until she stops struggling. This has also started to work wonders, each time she gets excited she will submit in less and less time. It is much better than being bit and growled at for the both of us (the pup and myself)!.


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## RufusRockz (Apr 8, 2007)

My 5 month beagle has become a little more naughty lately. She's begun howling in the mornings again. On Saturday night I was watching dvds until 3am, took her outside for a toilet break then went to bed. She was howling at 7am! I took her out but I don't think she was desperate to go. 
She's done this now the last few days, just like when she was a lot younger.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> My wife and I had a bit of a pow wow this weekend and decided that we were both going to step up the assertiveness when it comes to her behavior. This has actually been working pretty well so far.



Being assertive is fine, as long as you remain calm, and always have the dog come to you, rather than going to the dog and grabbing her, or the collar. The latter is very confrontational, and more likely to exacerbate the biting and growling. The nipping and growling when excited is pretty normal, and I'm not so sure that forcing your puppy to be submissive is the answer, and could ultimately damage your relationship and adversly affect training efforts. 



> Along with this, when she starts growling, we have been picking her up (she is only about 4.5 lbs) and putting her on her back until she stops struggling. This has also started to work wonders, each time she gets excited she will submit in less and less time.


Please don't do this to your dog. What you're doing is called flooding, and your dog is shutting down. Assumptions about a dog's behavior, understanding or capabilities, unless confirmed by careful observation of the dog himself, can lead to training problems, undermine or destroy your relationship with the dog, and in some cases, are tantamount to cruelty. It's obvious that you care about your puppy and want to do right by her. Please stop doing the "alpha rolls," because you risk damaging her pyschologically, and may end up with an aggressive dog, or, one with a broken spirit.

Understanding, analyzing and resolving behavior or performance problems requires a good deal of detective work. No detail, however small, is insignificant. The more acutely you are able to observe the dog, the more accurate your analysis will be. Acute observation and attention to detail is the hallmark of great trainers. 

Dogs live and act in a world of exquisitely subtle signals in their interactions with each other. Our observations and communications in our interactions with them must seem unbelievably coarse at times to these sophisticates of non-verbal communication. Turned around the other way, we would perceive such inattentiveness to our subtle signals as rude, uncaring or perhaps simply stupid. Fortunately for us, dogs bring to the human-dog relationship their wonderful powers of observation, allowing them to be highly aware of our posture, breathing, muscular tensions, and facial expressions, often reacting to changes of which we are not aware. Training or behavior problems often result from the dog's response to signals we unknowingly have sent. Unfortunately, the dog is often blamed rather than the handler. 

Our responsibility as handlers and trainers is to attempt to be as skilled in our observations and non-verbal communications with our dogs as they are in their interactions with us. Our reliance on verbal communication is perhaps one of the biggest stumbling blocks in the training process. As a rule, any concept that cannot be fully explained in a non-verbal way is a concept that a dog will be unable to grasp. 

Learning to become skilled as an observer requires that you practice these skills. It's so true that we often look, but we rarely see. Information gathered through careful observation is crucial. Without such information, you cannot make any informed decisions on the dog's behalf. A friend of mine thought she had a dog who was "insane and mean," because he would race around the yard like a maniac, and then charge her, nipping her hands, ripping clothing, and growling. His eyes looked "wild," and he did, indeed, act "insane!" *However, it was not the dog who needed to change, it was my friend!* The dog was bored stiff, and *underexersized*. By taking him out for daily walks, and working on basic obedience for brief sessions each and every day, her "insane, mean" dog became a very well-adjusted, affectionate and loyal companion. 

Take the time to observe your dog carefully and often. Like us, dogs change, have off days, and get confused. If you are observant about your dog's needs, capabilities and limitations, you can make informed decisions.


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## Gates1026 (Mar 14, 2007)

poodleholic said:


> Being assertive is fine, as long as you remain calm, and always have the dog come to you, rather than going to the dog and grabbing her, or the collar. The latter is very confrontational, and more likely to exacerbate the biting and growling. The nipping and growling when excited is pretty normal, and I'm not so sure that forcing your puppy to be submissive is the answer, and could ultimately damage your relationship and adversly affect training efforts.


I didnt state this, but we are trying to do this very calmly as a goal as well. We dont want to get all rialed up ourselves and project tension, but more of a calm assertive approach is what we are going for. Thanks for the great advice!



> Please don't do this to your dog. What you're doing is called flooding, and your dog is shutting down. Assumptions about a dog's behavior, understanding or capabilities, unless confirmed by careful observation of the dog himself, can lead to training problems, undermine or destroy your relationship with the dog, and in some cases, are tantamount to cruelty. It's obvious that you care about your puppy and want to do right by her. Please stop doing the "alpha rolls," because you risk damaging her pyschologically, and may end up with an aggressive dog, or, one with a broken spirit.
> 
> Understanding, analyzing and resolving behavior or performance problems requires a good deal of detective work. No detail, however small, is insignificant. The more acutely you are able to observe the dog, the more accurate your analysis will be. Acute observation and attention to detail is the hallmark of great trainers.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this response. I dont want to sound like my intention here is to flip her over and submit whenever she growls or nips period. There is definitely a very defined difference when she is being out of line. Many times when she is playing she will play growl and nip just a little (not too hard), but there are also times when she doesnt want to be touched or do something that she will outright bite. I really needed to find a way to stop this type of tantrum. 

The advice that I was given by a friend who has lots of dogs was to not allow her to be agressive and let her know that it is not OK to act out this way. I understand the logic here and dont see a huge problem with it. 

I dont want to erode my relationship with my pup by any means. At the same time it is a behavior that I need to stop, she cant be allowed to decide when she wants to bite or be agressive toward me. It doesnt seem like avoiding it or walking away is really the answer to me. I would welcome any other suggestions that you have to try and get rid of this behavior with other methods. I am not trying to argue for it, but just havent found a good way to deal with it in another way yet.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I still think group obedience lessons would be a good idea as well. It is time and money well spent. Even though I have had dogs all my life and know how to behavior train them, each one goes to at least two rounds of obedience classes during the first year. It's good for the dog and great for the owner.


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