# Dog trainer/obedience class reviews (South Florida)



## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I hope this hasn't been posted already but if it has, please forgive me. 

I'm hoping to get any of your reviews on dog training schools or obedience classes from the South Florida area. I'm in south Broward Co., and am looking for a good trainer for my (almost) 4 month old puppy. He's due for his last round of shots in about a week, so by mid-June we should be ready to enroll in his first training classes. 

I have done some preliminary research on local dog obedience classes that are available. One school recommended to me was Smart Start Puppies (they claim to train sans treats or clickers..sounds interesting). I checked on Yelp and Google for any other reviews of local schools, but didn't find many. I'm hoping the members here will have some more information than what I've already found.

Thanks for your help!


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Beware of a school claiming to train without food, unless they are using other reinforcers (like toys) in place of food. My guess is that they are using praise as a reinforcer and correction as a punishment. If that is the case, I would stay away.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Beware of a school claiming to train without food, unless they are using other reinforcers (like toys) in place of food. My guess is that they are using praise as a reinforcer and correction as a punishment. If that is the case, I would stay away.


Yes, I think they use praise as the reward for good behavior. There are also training classes available at the Humane Society, and of course there are other local certified trainers available. Most of the other trainers do use food or clickers for training.

Ok I heard back from the school.. they do charge an arm and a leg for their classes. So for 5 weeks of "Advanced training" I would pay $650 (their discounted price), they train in your home on your schedule, and guarantee their training for life. They said the offer payment plans if I can't pay all at once.. 

I have to admit their training techniques sound tempting, but I'm a little taken aback at the price (even with the lifetime guarantee). Is that paying too much or can I find non-treat/no-clicker training techniques for free, or at least less than my rent payment, at the library or a bookstore? I'm hesitant to spend the money, but at the same time I want to make sure I have a well-trained dog, who I know will be quite large and intimidating once he is full grown.. I'm torn.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

That is a lot of money. I paid 1/3 that for 8 weeks in a class and I pay $40 for 8 weeks at my own dog club. Class met/meets 1X a week.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Elana55 said:


> That is a lot of money. I paid 1/3 that for 8 weeks in a class and I pay $40 for 8 weeks at my own dog club. Class met/meets 1X a week.


Thanks for responding Elana.. Yeah my gut has been telling me that although they may do good work, that is a lot of money for some basic general obedience training. I will be seeking out other trainers in my area.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

Is there a specific reason you're looking for a no-treat training program?


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Entwine said:


> Is there a specific reason you're looking for a no-treat training program?


I'm not seeking a no-treat training program specifically.. they were just the first school who responded to one of my many requests for info from local dog trainers, and I thought their methods could prove interesting. That being said, I'm open to any non-violent training methods. Actually considering my puppy's personality, I don't think he'd only be motivated by praise or toys.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

You cannot have life long results in five weeks. Training is ongoing for the life of the dog, anything that promises quick fixes is either lying to you or is going to abuse you dog so bad he won't misbehave ever again, but he also won't do a whole lot of anything ever again. It simply doesn't work like that.

Finding training classes or a private trainer is hard. Anyone who advertises they don't use clickers or food generally doesn't understand how they work. "Purely positive" is often either a lie or useless, ineffective training. A good trainer will always let you observe a class before you commit any money, if it's not something you are comfortable with walk away. IMO an ideal class size is no more than 6 dogs per instructor, and if there are more than ten dogs in the class you'd better be in a very large space, preferably outdoors. Look for someone who has put obedience or agility titles on their dogs, or at the very least has students that have done so. Even if you aren't planning on competing, titles are sort of the proof in the pudding. A good website will tell you specifically how they train dogs, you will notice on the Smart Start website under "What We Do" is very vague. You "use your voice, hands and body language," that could mean anything.

Avoid anything that feels like magic. It's usually a sham.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Thanks RaeganW, I appreciate the insight. I found a link to Kikopup free training/obedience videos here on the forum somewhere and I've started using their methods to begin clicker training with our puppy and he seems to be picking things up quickly. Who knows I may wind up not even _needing _a trainer in the end. I did contact several other dog trainers in my area and none has gotten back in touch with me, yet. If they wait too long to get in touch I will probably have found enough free info online and through books that they won't get a single dollar out of me. Oh well...their loss!


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## piassv (Jun 7, 2011)

Hi,
My name is Martha, I've read some of the comments here on treat training and so forth! I had my dog trained by SmartStartPuppies and I must tell you they really got my dog the way my familly wanted. We have 2 kids and a husband (another kid) and everyone knows how to speak to the dog. They actually take their time to work with everyone in the family and are not watching the clock. 

I tried the Humane Society and really that didn't work. Smart Start Puppies actually does not train with treats the owner use to be a Guide Dog Trainer for the blind and he really knows his stuff (it think his name is Tony, it's a husband and wife team). They don't use clickers or special collars. There's nothing like hiring someone that knows what they are doing. 

Guaranteed you'll love them! If you need me just drop me a line here thanks!

Regan,
It looks like you really don't know what you are talking about! I got the results I wanted and it's been about 6 months already and you know if you have any problem with their training all you have to do is call them and they'll come back, no questions asked. Seems people just like to bad mouth others that do a good job. It's hard finding good work but when you find it it's really nice! 

People, we have the internet to do research, look at their site, call them ask them for refferals, it's that easy. When you find good work you'll be happy. The internet is the peoples best freind as well as their worst enemy. 

I used these trainers and I'm extreamly happy with my wheaton terrier and If I get another dog I'll call them again and again. I live in Plantation Florida and couldn't be happier!!


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Hi Martha,

Thanks for your review.  Smart Start does sound like a great dog training school, but honestly I think they are charging way too much. The owners seem very nice and everything, but I may go the treat/clicker route at this point. But I'm open to hear any reviews of any dog trainers in this region.


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## piassv (Jun 7, 2011)

TwoDogMommy said:


> Hi Martha,
> 
> Thanks for your review.  Smart Start does sound like a great dog training school, but honestly I think they are charging way too much. The owners seem very nice and everything, but I may go the treat/clicker route at this point. But I'm open to hear any reviews of any dog trainers in this region.


If you're going to do the training TwoDogMommy (i love the username) you might as well do it the right way. Here's what I've learned, if you give a dog a treat for everything that they do then they'll expect it! What happens when you don't have the clicker or the treat, then what? They'll walk away, I know it because I did it to start with and then it didn't work. This method of training, they'll do it because they want to do it, because of all the love they'll get. 

Here's what made me go with them; they are very willing to split payments up, they worked with us, They let me split the payment up into two for us which helped out a lot. I'm telling you, they are very understanding and willing to help. I know a few vet offices use them too. I spent $250 the first time for 10 weeks with treats and clicker and what a waste. You'll get much more out of them. Tell them I sent you with the with crazy husband. Ask them to work with you and they will. They have a really cool blog with some great tips. Go to http://dogtraining-miami.com I get updated with all new posts they write. Good Luck


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Hi Martha,

Thanks again! Well, we're going to check out a trainer today and see how it goes. I've already done a few sessions with our puppy with clicker/treat training and he is picking it up (of course food is a good motivator). In most clicker/treat training it seems that you only start off with the treats in the initial phases of training and then taper off treating him once he gets the concepts of what you want him to do. I did subscribe to Smart Start's blog, so I'll be keeping up with news on their end too.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Unless the dog has food allergies ... why any pet owner would arbitrarily elect to entiely dismiss food as a reinforcer, .. is beyond me.

One of the keys to effective training is learning how to recognize and utilize the multitude of innate drives and desires that lie within each individual dog, ... food drive included.

Being closed-minded to the potential use of food, for whatever selfish reason, is .. well ... just plain selfish. 

Not to mention foolish.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

TwoDogMommy said:


> *I'm not seeking a no-treat training program specifically*.. they were just the first school who responded to one of my many requests for info from local dog trainers, and I thought their methods could prove interesting. That being said, I'm open to any non-violent training methods. Actually considering my puppy's personality, I don't think he'd only be motivated by praise or toys.





petpeeve said:


> Unless the dog has food allergies ... why any pet owner would arbitrarily elect to entiely dismiss food as a reinforcer, .. is beyond me.
> 
> One of the keys to effective training is learning how to recognize and utilize the multitude of innate drives and desires that lie within each individual dog, ... food drive included.
> 
> ...


You must have missed the part where I said I wasn't specifically seeking a non-treat based training method. I am *already* beginning training my pup *WITH TREATS *and a clicker. 

Thanks for your judgey reply.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

TwoDogMommy said:


> You must have missed the part where I said I wasn't specifically seeking a non-treat based training method. I am *already* beginning training my pup *WITH TREATS *and a clicker.
> 
> Thanks for your judgey reply.


You must have missed the part where I was addressing you specifically, mainly because I wasn't.

 ... no need to *bold*, or get snippy. I fully understood your position first time around.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

petpeeve said:


> You must have missed the part where I was addressing you specifically, mainly because I wasn't.
> 
> ... no need to *bold*, or get snippy. I fully understood your position first time around.


Ok.. so do you have anything *constructive* to add, or a review? I am not looking for a *lecture*, just advice.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

piassv said:


> Here's what I've learned, if you give a dog a treat for everything that they do then they'll expect it! What happens when you don't have the clicker or the treat, then what? They'll walk away, I know it because I did it to start with and then it didn't work. This method of training, they'll do it because they want to do it, because of all the love they'll get.


Totally untrue. I'm thinking you must have misunderstood, or had clicker training explained to you very badly. (You aren't, by any chance, the owner of Smart Start, are you?)



TwoDogMommy said:


> I found a link to Kikopup free training/obedience videos here on the forum somewhere and I've started using their methods to begin clicker training with our puppy and he seems to be picking things up quickly. )


Kikopup has some EXCELLENT training videos.

Went to the website. They do seem to talk a lot about dominance and "leash corrections" which is about what I would expect from a trainer who proclaims no treats. You have to be able to motivate a dog to offer behavior somehow. You can do that by initially using an external reinforcer (which can be faded once a dog understands what is being asked for) or you can motivate them by giving them an aversive worth avoiding. A dog who is motivated to gain something he wants will work harder if he's not getting it. A dog who is trained to avoid aversives will work only as hard as he needs to to avoid those aversives. All trainers are going to tell you their methods are the best. And probably believe it, or they'd be doing something else. An honest trainer will welcome you to sit in on a class or two before you sign up. Are their methods something you want to do with/to your dog? Are the dogs learning effectively? Are the dogs and the humans having a good time? If food is used as a lure, instead of a reinforcer, is the lure faded quickly?


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Thanks Pawzk9.. Those were helpful questions to think about. Seems like the trainers who have gotten in contact with me have wanted a big financial commitment up front before allowing me to see what they are all about. I don't understand the secrecy. You would think if they were so awesome one free sit in would sell me and then I'd be willing to pay whatever they wanted. 

I am going to see a trainer tonight and while they are charging me, it's a very reasonable $7.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TwoDogMommy said:


> Thanks Pawzk9.. Those were helpful questions to think about. Seems like the trainers who have gotten in contact with me have wanted a big financial commitment up front before allowing me to see what they are all about. I don't understand the secrecy. You would think if they were so awesome one free sit in would sell me and then I'd be willing to pay whatever they wanted.
> 
> I am going to see a trainer tonight and while they are charging me, it's a very reasonable $7.


I wish you luck in finding a good trainer. I have a school (but you can't come unless you can get to Oklahoma!) and I always welcome people to come (without their dog) and watch a class for free. In fact, I really like it when people are intersted enough to want to see how I train ahead of time, and have more interesting questions to ask than "how much do you charge?"


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

TwoDogMommy said:


> Ok.. so do you have anything *constructive* to add, or a review? I am not looking for a *lecture*, just advice.


*shrug* 

If you go back and re-read, perhaps you'll discover that what I did add WAS in fact constructive advice, not neccessarily meant for _you_ ... but rather for _anyone_ who might be reading.

anyways ... *I'm OUT* on this one ... :wave: lol

Good luck.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> I wish you luck in finding a good trainer. I have a school (but you can't come unless you can get to Oklahoma!) and I always welcome people to come (without their dog) and watch a class for free. In fact, I really like it when people are intersted enough to want to see how I train ahead of time, and have more interesting questions to ask than "how much do you charge?"


Yeah looks like I'll be needing the luck! I really appreciate your feedback.. how long does it take to drive from Florida to Oklahoma? lol


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TwoDogMommy said:


> Yeah looks like I'll be needing the luck! I really appreciate your feedback.. how long does it take to drive from Florida to Oklahoma? lol


Well, let's just say it's a pretty lengthy communte! I did have two ladies who drove a couple of hours one way, and overnighted in their motor home to get to class! They were also among the clients who came and watched before signing up.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> Well, let's just say it's a pretty lengthy communte! I did have two ladies who drove a couple of hours one way, and overnighted in their motor home to get to class! They were also among the clients who came and watched before signing up.


Wow.. that's dedication, especially considering the price of gas these days. Well I'll let everyone know how it goes tonight.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Wow.. well I have to say, I'm impressed! After only one class last night in a local park, our morning walk today was MUCH improved! There was a lot less pulling, no lunging at other people walking their dogs, etc. I did have to correct the pup a bit but he actually listened to me, and this walk was a breeze compared to how it usually is. The techniques I learned after one single class have really helped and I can see going back for at least a few more sessions to reinforce not only what our pup learned, but for myself also. For now I've found my trainers. 

The class was by Command Dog Training and Pippin took the "conformation" class, which is for teaching show dogs how to stand and walk for dog show judges. The sessions are once a week for an hour and a half, and I'll be going to the next one for sure. He may only need a few classes to get walking properly on a leash down pat, and after that I will continue to reinforce our learning on my own.


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## TwoDogMommy (May 24, 2011)

Thanks Holly! I'll definitely keep you in mind and stop by for a visit. :wave:


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## frostywolf (Jul 5, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> I wish you luck in finding a good trainer. I have a school (but you can't come unless you can get to Oklahoma!) and I always welcome people to come (without their dog) and watch a class for free. In fact, I really like it when people are intersted enough to want to see how I train ahead of time, and have more interesting questions to ask than "how much do you charge?"


I encourage prospective clients to sit in on my classes as well. Of course, I would imagine that in-home private trainers would have a tougher time arranging for someone to come and observe.


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## erinnoreen (Jul 1, 2013)

This thread is from quite some time ago, but just wondering if you decided to go with Smart Start? I have a deposit with them but just heard a really nasty review and would like to know how it went before I bring my dog to them?!


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