# coccidia and giardia



## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2010)

I was wondering if it would be a good or bad idea to occasionally treat an asymtomatic dog (showing no signs of the disease) for coccidia and giardia as a preventitive step? I have read that dogs can have either of these illnesses and show no symptoms. I also have read that the test to diagnose the illnesses can show up negative even when the dog actually is infested with the organisms. So, I am wondering how safe the treatment methods for these illnesses are? Is it safe enough to administer as a preventative measure or is it something that should only be done when the dog has been positively diagnosed with either illness? I have read that dogs that in fact have either disease can be asymptomatic and have flare ups of symptoms in times of stress. My dog has shown symptoms in the past (before I knew about either disease). At the time of him showing these symptoms I had recently changed his food and quickly put him on his old food and the symptoms stopped. I know that the only way to know for sure if he has either disease is veterinary tests. Knowing that the tests can show false negatives I am uncertain that I am willing to take him to the vet multiple times for multiple tests when he may in fact be coccidia and giardia free but I also do not want him to have these issues. I would greatly appreciate anyones input on personal experience with these diseases or treatments.


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## aisling (Feb 1, 2010)

What symptoms are you talking about? Diarrhea? If so, changing your dogs food could be to blame, and have nothing to do with either giardia or coccidia.

As far as the medications are concerned... I wouldn't medicate my dog unless I knew it was ill. The medications used are safe, generally speaking. I would just focus on keeping my home/yard decontaminated. There is also a giardia vaccination available as well, although I have no personal experience with it.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

What were you planning on treating with? Typically, a vet will either prescribe fenbendazole (panacur) or metranidazole. I couldn't imagine any ethical veterinarian prescribing these meds to an asymptomatic, negative testing dog. And, even if you got your hands on it I would't recommend just randomly giving them as a preventative measure. It's pretty hard to overdose an animal with either treatment, but, I really believe there are a lot more things you could worry about (if you're just a worrier) when it comes to the health of your dog.

If you would really like to know you're doing your best to prevent these things there are certain steps you can do to try and keep your dog safe. I'd go so far to say at least half of the symptomatic, giardia cases I've treated have been from dogs drinking stagnant, standing water from somewhere in the backyard or near the house. Little back yard baby pools or bird baths filled with rainwater are CLASSIC places for a dog to ingest giardia spores. Try (I know it's not easy) to prevent your little ones from drinking out of random puddles or even ponds when you go for walks as these too are wonderful places to find giardia spores. 

Is this what you were looking for? Feel free to ask on here or message me if you'd like a more thorough explanation.


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## tonisaysss (Jan 18, 2010)

bring in three stool samples. if you have a vet that your dog has already been checked up at, most offices will allow you to just drop the sample off without paying visiting charges. most floats are 30 bucks. it's better to be sure.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2010)

The symptoms that I was speaking of were mucousy diahrrea that also had some blood in it. I know that my dog has indeed drank standing water, which I always try to watch for and discourage. More recently my dog had stopped eating and drinking. During this fasting I took a stool sample in and it was checked for worms and coccidia and both were negative. That was only one stool sample though, which was solid. I have heard that in most cases the spores are shed in diahrrea. Just curious, if i took whatever stools I could attain over a 72 hour period in at one time would I get charged for three seperate fecal tests or just one? Also, is this method sound or do I need to get each individual sample in within a certain time period after collected? I have heard of the giardia vaccine (GiardaVax). I found a study online in regards to the vaccine. The study of the vaccine was done on asymptomatic as well as symptomatic dogs. The study results concluded that the vaccine did not have signifcantly proven benefits but in my opinion the study was not necessarily conducted properly to prove or disprove the vaccine. It was a 6 month study that the dogs were tested every 4 weeks post vax until 24 weeks. Between the 6 occasions the dogs were tested the only occasion that the dogs given the vax were shown to be semi-significantly more giardia free over the control group was in the 24th week. So, only one testing out of six did the vax group show somewhat better giardia free numbers over the control. Of the other 5 testings some showed more giardia free dogs in the control group not given the vax and some showed the vax group to be more giardia free but the difference in numbers on each occasion were not very significant. Had they kept testing after 24 weeks the vax could have possibly shown some benefit over the control group but that is questionable. Also, some of the dogs were asymptomatic and some were symptomatic and not all were diagnosed using the same tests. So, I think the study had too many variable to attain any valid conclusions.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2010)

You are very correct. I am indeed a "worrier". So, I would go broke testing my dog everytime I thought something might be wrong especially if what I am testing for takes several test to get an accurate diagnosis. This is a website I found in regards to obtaining the treatment medications (http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_giardiasis.htm). I was just curious about the safeness of asymptomatic "treatment". I most certainly will not administer any medication if it is inadvisable. I most definately will be contacting my vet, which I am sure will tell me to come in for testing. Well, I guess it is time for some action rather than speculation.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Actually, fenbendazole is available OTC. The brand that I got was "Safe Guard"--you can get it at Petsmart or online. It's marketed as a wormer, but it's also effective against giardia.


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## Xie (Feb 5, 2009)

First off, the Giardia vaccine is being halted and will no longer be produced. Fort Dodge, the company that made it, said it has been found ineffective. Most vets seemed to have already reached that opinion which is why you rarely saw it used.

Call your vet like you are planning. If they suggest metronidazole or panacur without a positive test that is actually fairly common. Both are safe medications when prescribed and dosed properly and trying one to see if it would help should not hurt your dog, even if it doesn't clear up the symptoms.

Make sure with the testing though that a seperate giardia test is run. Coccidia can be seen on a fecal float, which will show most worms, but giardia is almost never seen that way. To really test for giardia a seperate test has to be run. We run this test in-house but it's pretty common to be sent to a lab as well.

You are also right that a positive is definitely a positive but a negative doesn't mean it's definitely negative. If the sample is taken at the wrong time in the life cycle you won't necessarily see anything on the fecal float. That's why it's pretty common to prescribe metronidazole or panacur without a positive. The other advantage is that it might really not be giardia or coccidia but metronidazole is pretty good at clearing up a whole bunch of different intestinal issues.

Best of luck at the vet!


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2010)

Which giardia medication works best at eliminating the cysts/organisms? Are the treatment medications equally safe (side effects), if not which is safest? Also, are the coccidia meds safe/side effect free?


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## aisling (Feb 1, 2010)

At the clinic I work at, we treat giardia with metronidazole. However, recently we've come across a strain that seems to be resistant to that medication, and we successfully treated it with a round of metronidazole and fenbendazole.

Personally, I have never heard of any animals exhibiting side effects, although they exist. As far as I know, the medications used for coccidia are also very safe, although not entirely side effect free.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Just FYI, metronidazole tastes VERY bitter, so you're gonna have to come up with ingenius ways to get your pup to eat it.. or just force it down his throat.

Fenbendazole is fine, though. I mix Safeguard into my pup's food every half a year or so (depending on how much puddles he's decided to drink water from =/) and he doesn't mind the taste so much. With metronidazole, he absolutely refused to go anywhere near it and could smell it from a mile away.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The symptoms that I was speaking of were mucousy diahrrea that also had some blood in it.


HI there. do a search on my recent posts and you will see that i have recently dealt with an asymptomatic dog who tested positive for Coccidia, was treated, then tested positive for Giardia and then treated. THEN we had a bloody poop. tested negative for both coccidia and giardia and was Treated for colitis. whew, at the moment we appear healthy.....

My dog did not have diarrhea. She had horribly stinky gas. She did have ONE loose watery stool (ok I'd call that diarrhea like but it only happened once) I took that sample to the vet and they found coccidia. after treatment I took a normal looking stool sample and they found the giardia. For further clarification My vet's do one test in house but have to send the sample out to a lab for more testing to find the c or g. I'll assume that the vets do a float in house and that the lad does a more intensive test. ANyway it is always the lab results that come up neg or pos for C and G.

Point is that the Giardia was found in a very normal looking stool, not in a loose watery diarrhea type of a stool. I know its hard to detect, but they can find it. 

The Blood thing though..... if the blood is bright red then the bleeding is happening further down the digestive tract, inside the colin. Closer to the rectum. If the blood in the poop was dark red (almost brownish) then the bleeding is happening in the small intestine or closer in. Make sense? My dogs blood was bright red, so it was the colin. 

I personally would never self medicate for giardia or coccidia without a positive stool sample. But that's me. 

My vet said that many vets and many people would not treat an asymptomatic dog. I've spoken to other dog owners who agree, and felt I was being taken advantage of by my vet. BUT in my vet's defense; She said that she felt treatment was a good idea given that I have a 2.5 yo toddler in the house. And she just wanted to be safe. I agreed with my vet and treated my dog. 

panacur and other de-wormer medicines are poisons that kill off worm populations. I know that they are safe to use, but I wouldn't use them unless I was told to by a vet. They are poison after all.


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