# Allergy problems - Shih Tzu



## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

Hello! I am new to the forum & would just like a few (or more) opinions. I currently own a 1 year old Shih Tzu, named Meiko and also (2) 1 year old brother kitties, named Elvis & Rocky. This is going to be rather long but I am frustrated and worried about my Meiko and don't want to see him get even worse...

I started noticing Meiko's face developing the red yeast stuff under his eyes a while back, and we also found fleas. He has been pawing at his face, and biting at his back. We took him in to see the Vet to make sure he didn't have anything phsically wrong with his eyes. She didn't find anything and they got a few samples to test. I found on the Internet that alot of pets have food allergies and we were feeding all IAMS food. 

**I edited this because my org post was WAY too long


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

my shih tzu bandit was allergic to many things...fleas, chicken, vaccinations (never did find out which one)

no matter what brand of dog food we tried, he did best on anything with lamb and brown rice....those were the days when we used commercial foods.

if he were alive today, i think i would have him on a cooked diet or raw....because i'm now a firm believer there isn't a dry kibble that meets the needs of an allergic animal to my satisfaction......

having said that, i am, admittedly, a control freak, so i want to create the diet my dogs will be on...

the perfect eater is never an issue...you can feed that dog 'ol roy and the dog will be fine...i've never been blessed with perfect eaters ...i get the ones with obscure allergies and other maladies


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks for your reply!! I have been seriously considering rotating a few "home-cooked" meals a couple of days a week. Downloaded some "hypoallergenic" recipes to try. As for the raw, I am expecting and quite worried about contamination....so not sure if that will happen. I do worry constantly about what he's getting from the commercial foods though. Did the lamb & brown rice get help the yeast stuff as well?? Oh forgot to mention....tried the ol' Benadryl for the hay fever but the pooch still itches....

p.s. I won't let my husband feed any of the pets..so understand the control freak thing!


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

my shih tzus never had a yeast infection under their eyes, but they did have yeasty ears...

we made our own solution of 1/2 hydrogen peroxide + water + 1/2 alcohol and cleaned their ears....we washed their faces constantly..and i think they did NOT have yeasty ears when we started shaving their faces, leaving no hair....the military cut, ya know...and we began to pluck the hair from their ears...

i don't think the lamb/brown rice had much to do with that..

although, i think that home cooking has helped my pug tremendously...bubba doesn't have icky ears anymore because we cook for him...at least i think so...plus we use an ear wash and wash his ears out once a week..

someone on here would know what apple cidar vinegar does...i remember reading it but i can't remember where and what it's used for....let me scrounge around a bit and i'll see if i can find where i read about apple cider vinegar and yeasts....


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

Thank you for your help with this!!  I read that the Apple Cider stuff neutralizes the PH balance in their system..or something like that. Been reading so much on all this lately..think I found a forum where they were saying this was the only thing that helped the yeast for their pups. Along with the 55 trillion other things that could cause the yeast...I read that it could be as simple as his face being wet & it collecting there....and also the fact that my dog is a white color so it shows up better. I try to wipe him but he's an onery little dude and bolts when he sees me with the towel!


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

the other thing we did with our shih tzus..all four of them...was to have them groomed with military cuts....

yes, they did not look so cute anymore with their shaved faces, plucked ears....the only thing we kept were their magnificent tails, although we kept them styled, at least...

that may well have been the reason they did not get yeasty eyes or mouths...which i was told shih tzus are famous for getting...

the plucking of their ears took care of any infections or build up..so we no longer had to clean their ears, either....


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## BlueChaos (Mar 29, 2010)

I would remove grains from the diet since yeast feeds on sugar thats in grains, a lot of dogs tear stains dissapear after switching to grain free food. Theres are several options such as taste of the wild, wellness core, orijen, acana provincial, blue buffalo wilderness just to name a few. Blue Buffalo wilderness recently came out with a new fish formula, which is good for dogs with skin issues due to higher concentration of omega 3's. 
You may also want to add a digestive enzyme blend to the food to help break it down and help with absorbtion.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I would try feeding a very simple food like California Natural, Wellness Simple Solutions or Natural Balance allergy formulas. Also, sometimes Benadryl helps with allergies.


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks luvntzus & BluChaos  I have Meiko on fish oil, just started Geneflora Probiotics, Cal Nat Dry kibble & EVO grain free. I do give him Benedryl every once in a while but I feel guilty b/c he hates taking it & it knocks him on his butt  He itches, lick & paws at his face still so hopefully this new regimen will start to help! My poor lil dude needs some relief!!


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

luvmypets said:


> Thanks luvntzus & BluChaos  I have Meiko on fish oil, just started Geneflora Probiotics, Cal Nat Dry kibble & EVO grain free. I do give him Benedryl every once in a while but I feel guilty b/c he hates taking it & it knocks him on his butt  He itches, lick & paws at his face still so hopefully this new regimen will start to help! My poor lil dude needs some relief!!


don't want to muddy your waters....but i was looking at california naturals and this jumped out on me...

..they use natural flavours. i don't know what that means in that i have no idea from where they derive such 'flavours'....and that alone makes it suspect.

if i have an allergic dog....i would be feeding him/her as few ingredients as possible for maybe two months to see....

what i would do is roast a chicken and cook some veggies...put them through the cuisinart and feed that way for a month and see what happens.

this way. you're giving him an elimination diet that does not go through a manufacturing process...you're eliminating grains which may or may not be the cause or part of the cause and you're giving enough fibre and plenty of protein for your baby....

keep a journal, too...


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

No worries MR - I did decide to take him off of kibble all together. I agree on the natural flavors thing! No telling what could be in that.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

luvmypets said:


> No worries MR - I did decide to take him off of kibble all together. I agree on the natural flavors thing! No telling what could be in that.


what did you decide to do with your baby?


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

Let's see -this may be too wordy but..  

I took him off all canned & kibble and put him on NV pre-made Raw Rabbit but he still had the itching, hotspots etc. really bad. Think it may be the eggs in the rabbit but hard to tell? Looked into skin testing but cannot afford $1000 at the moment so no on that. Thinking of taking him to a holistic vet but not sure..

Think you may have recommended raw from the start & I was concerned b/c I'm expecting. BUT - I make dishes for my husband & I that include raw meat in the beginning so what's the difference right as long as you use common sense & are safe. 

Now I'm weaning him off the pre-made and giving him just organic raw grnd beef, pro-biotics and Omegas. I know it's not the exact same as the RMB's but I'm not ready for that yet. So we'll see MR! Tnx for asking...and as usual my post was way too long.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

don't apologise...we all gotta live with what we do...ya know? just make sure he's getting a good ratio of meat to bone so you don't have to deal with cannon butt and he gets to have good nutrition...win win all around.

lots of people feed ground with ground bone....this is a process...no need to explain or apologise. i applaud the step you're taking..

so, how's he doing on growned beef/bone.....if the itching is slowing down, you've got your answer and don't need to spend money on testing....especially allergies..pesky expensive tests that sometimes tell the answer....

not to say that it shouldn't be done...but maybe food first....

i agree about rabbit..it's very lean...maybe too lean....a little fat in the beginning is good for them...but not too much.....dogs need fat for their energy...fat and bone and muscle...eventually organs...no rush....

you are switching something in your head and he's switching to an entirely different world....

good on you....please let us know...


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks for the encouragement MR! This has been quite hard to see the lil boy go through this. I will keep on trying to help him no matter what. 

Just started the raw grnd beef and still giving him the rabbit. Haven't seen any results just yet but man I'm hoping for his sake. From what I've read this can take take time or happen overnight. Only bone he's had so far is in the pre-made. Worried about the bones hurting his insides and all that. Signed up for a raw email group and there is alot of conflicting info on WHAT type of bones. I may get some canned salmon or sardines with the little bones & see how that goes...cause I know he needs his calcium and supplements sometimes may not break down properly from what I gather....can u say info overload?!  

Found an article one time that makes me leary about the raw bones..said that in the wild an animal usually consumes the bone w/ some amount of hair wrapped around it and this may actually prevent the bone from causing damage..not sure how they came up w/ the evidence though & I can't even remember at this point which site. Been a while & was when I first heard about raw..overall many dogs thrive on the raw diet though and I'm seriously considering it after all this allergy buis. Yes there are risks but in the wild does a dog cook his food? No. Does he turn it to kibble. No. So I think it has a lot of truth to it. Just don't trust the pet food industry anymore! Will keep you posted


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

You are changing a lot of his food really fast, and you need to realize that you should transition your dog onto most foods over a course of a week, then wait up to two weeks before you will see any results from itching, dry skin, etc.

IAMS sucks, majorly, and that was probably a big part of his problem. My recommendation is to put him on a grain free food like the limited ingredient natural balance formulas or taste of the wild and stick to it for a while. 

You're not balancing out any of his raw meals, which can cause issues. You really shouldn't be starting to feed him raw until you've done the necessary research, because I can tell you haven't. Check out the raw stickies in the food forum. There are tons of bones you can give him, and almost none that he can eat will hurt his insides. Just avoid weight bearing bones and you'll be fine. Also, you need to realize that his raw meals have to be specifically balanced over time (I go by week) to 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ. I have an excel spreadsheet that can break this down for you and show how much to feed if you'd like it, but you still need to research raw feeding nad how to do it.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

isn't it partly balance over time?

i agree with starting with one protein....most people begin with chicken backs because they are bony and chicken is easiest to digest...

your baby has been on too many meds and now you're introducing too many things at once.

you won't know what works unless you try one thing at a time.

how about this?

while you're reading about raw..and i really recommend you read some sources about raw.

read the stickies on this board. they are very very good....for real....

watch your fat intake...if feeding chicken backs first, make sure you take excess fat and organs off...

but go slowly.....it's balance over time....

and it takes time to wrap your head around the fact that they eat bones without issue....in a little while as you stop being scared....you'll start to see your little dog wants this food, dances for this food...no longer has bowel issues....skin lookin' fine....hair shiny...happy little boy...

but it's up to you now to read and research.....

if you feel you must use ground at first, make sure there is bone in it and get a chicken or turkey blend of meat and bone....

look up darwin's pet foods on google. they have some wonderful packaging....

or you can cook his food as you read....that's what we did before making the leap...


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

ok. i just re read your post. take a breath and stop for a moment.

if it were your child, and you suspected colitis or IBS or an allergy..you'd do an elimination diet.

you'd fast your kid, in this case your dog...for twenty four hours.

you'd then give the kid one source of protein....the bone acts as fibre, so you can give chicken necks, chicken backs, turkey necks to start and if you're a little bone heavy it's okay. if you want to go very slowly, take the skin off and excess fat....and do just that and only that for about a week and see what happens...

then come back here and tell us how he did and let's then move on to the next step.

i know this is scary....the first time my pug regurgitated an entire chicken wing, i thought i was going to have to perform cpr.....but i realised that my tension was passing to my dog and that I had to calm down....and let him do what dogs do...and when they regurgitate, the acids in their system and their digestive enzymes are already working....and they may well regurgitate a few times, like my pug does....but he gets it down with joy and glee and he has wonderful stools and he's healthy happy, shiny and wonderful....


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> You are changing a lot of his food really fast, and you need to realize that you should transition your dog onto most foods over a course of a week, then wait up to two weeks before you will see any results from itching, dry skin, etc.
> 
> IAMS sucks, majorly, and that was probably a big part of his problem. My recommendation is to put him on a grain free food like the limited ingredient natural balance formulas or taste of the wild and stick to it for a while.
> 
> You're not balancing out any of his raw meals, which can cause issues. You really shouldn't be starting to feed him raw until you've done the necessary research, because I can tell you haven't. Check out the raw stickies in the food forum. There are tons of bones you can give him, and almost none that he can eat will hurt his insides. Just avoid weight bearing bones and you'll be fine. Also, you need to realize that his raw meals have to be specifically balanced over time (I go by week) to 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ. I have an excel spreadsheet that can break this down for you and show how much to feed if you'd like it, but you still need to research raw feeding nad how to do it.


Actually - I have read tons about raw and have been a part of a Yahoo Raw group my friend so do not imply that I know nothing. I have read all the above that you have stated on what percentages and all that but I am still not comfortable with the bone thing and my husband is getting used to the whole idea as well. I do realize that it needs to be balanced as I am not a moron. For someone that is telling me this - you have not obviously done your research on Natural Balance. Follow your own advice why don't you and look up Ethoxyquin and tell me about that. NB uses this is in its food or either buys from a source that contains it - whatever. I have read hours upon hours UPN hours on raw and everything else under the sun about food, chemicals etc. I am learning still and doing my best. YES IAMS SUCKS, that is why he is NO LONGER ON IT! I DID switch him gradually on these things and took as much precaution as I could. I did realize I could be overloading him & have tried to slow it down. There is alot of conflicting info out there on raw and everything else with the food thing so I am trying to inform myself as much as I can before giving him bones.


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> ok. i just re read your post. take a breath and stop for a moment.
> 
> if it were your child, and you suspected colitis or IBS or an allergy..you'd do an elimination diet.
> 
> ...


I am doing an elimination diet - that is my fault for not being clear on that. I have fasted him about once a week as well. I am breathing also  I believe you told me you knew plenty of raw feeders that fed organic gnd beef to start off slowly and it was fine? No?


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## luvmypets (Apr 5, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> isn't it partly balance over time?
> 
> i agree with starting with one protein....most people begin with chicken backs because they are bony and chicken is easiest to digest...
> 
> ...


He has had NO bowel issues whatsover. We check it every time he goes, etc. I am lucky with that part. Just the skin. Believe me - I have read alot about raw. Alot. I am just new to the idea and trying to make sure I do it right. The ground beef may not be the totally correct way but I am trying to see if his skin improves. No more rabbit though - as this could be a "hot" food and cause inflammation according to Eastern medicine..from what I am told & have found on the net.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

luvmypets said:


> Actually - I have read tons about raw and have been a part of a Yahoo Raw group my friend so do not imply that I know nothing. I have read all the above that you have stated on what percentages and all that but I am still not comfortable with the bone thing and my husband is getting used to the whole idea as well. I do realize that it needs to be balanced as I am not a moron. For someone that is telling me this - you have not obviously done your research on Natural Balance. Follow your own advice why don't you and look up Ethoxyquin and tell me about that. NB uses this is in its food or either buys from a source that contains it - whatever. I have read hours upon hours UPN hours on raw and everything else under the sun about food, chemicals etc. I am learning still and doing my best. YES IAMS SUCKS, that is why he is NO LONGER ON IT! I DID switch him gradually on these things and took as much precaution as I could. I did realize I could be overloading him & have tried to slow it down. There is alot of conflicting info out there on raw and everything else with the food thing so I am trying to inform myself as much as I can before giving him bones.


If you've read all that about feeding raw, I don't know how you can have any issues or feel uncomfortable about feeding bones. He should be fed bones from the get go with his meat or he'll have bad issues with his stools. 

NB does buy their fish from the same company that makes TOTW and Solid gold, that preserves fish with ethoxyquin, however, their is one formula in that line of NB that contains fish. Any other formual is E free, thank you. I have done the research, but if you're going to get snippity, I'll tell you that you apparently have not.

If you're finding conflicting arguements about something regarding raw, just post a thread or join in on a similar thread to find out the right answer. There are plenty of people (including myself) that would love to help you out. 



luvmypets said:


> He has had NO bowel issues whatsover. We check it every time he goes, etc. I am lucky with that part. Just the skin. Believe me - I have read alot about raw. Alot. I am just new to the idea and trying to make sure I do it right. The ground beef may not be the totally correct way but I am trying to see if his skin improves. No more rabbit though - as this could be a "hot" food and cause inflammation according to Eastern medicine..from what I am told & have found on the net.


I've never heard of rabbit causing irritation or inflammation (usually Rabbit's a great protien source) in any dog, including my own. Are you going to stop feeding rabbit because you read it's bad, or is your dog actually having bad reactions to it?


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## krissysmom (Jul 19, 2010)

Normally I would not respond, but I do have to defend Natural Balance LID! It really saved me. 

I have 2, 6 year old shih tzu's, Krissy and Kerri. Three years ago Krissy developed alergies. She licked the bottom of her paws, rubbed her head Scratched, you name it, she did it. I found myself at the vet's office several times a year for ear infections, eye infections, red skin, etc... Dogs with allergies develope yeast infections in their ears, eyes, and body. I spent a small fortune, but really no long term solution. Finally off to the derm. for allergy testing. She was allergic to everyting outside. We started allergy shots and continued for a year. It was slow, but she did improve a LITTLE, but she was still miserible and so was I.

I decided to changed her diet. I read, researched, and finally decided to try Natural Balance. It's not a prefect food, but it worked for her. I can't begin to tell you how bad she was and now, no red skin, no eye infection, no ear infection, if fact she just completed the first year, with no vet visits except for yearly wellness. I incorporated a few other things such as she takes grizzly salmon oil every day, I bath her in Selsum Blue once a week wash her ears out with malaket ear clearner which works great, and she eats Natural Balance Venison, Duck, and now we are going to try the bison. 

I started to notice a decrease in redness after about 8-12 weeks, but it took a full 6-8 months for everything to clear up. 

She still has to take 1/2 tablet of Zertec sometimes in the summer, but much better.

I tried the allergy shots and though they helped a little, nothing helped as much as Natural Balance and the Omega 3. I have tried California natural, but always go back to the NB. She appears to be allergic to the Grains and Chicken. I've never tried the Raw so can't commet on it, but I do know allergies. You have to be patient and not always listen to your vet.

Natural Balance was a life saver for us.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I have to leave for work soon and can't read the entire thread so sorry if this was covered but I have a dog who, at 4mos, started with yeast ear infections and paw licking. An online friend gave me a list of ingredients to avoid, since I opted not to do allergy testing. The list is: chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice and flax. From trial and error, I found that my dog is sensitive to brewers yeast. Please keep in mind that you need to monitor everything that goes into your dogs mouth, including treats and any supplements. Soy does my dog in and I once got a fish oil, didn't check the label but it has soy it it. I also tried him with a supplement that had brewers yeast and nope, not for him. Good luck!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

luvmypets said:


> Actually - I have read tons about raw and have been a part of a Yahoo Raw group my friend so do not imply that I know nothing. I have read all the above that you have stated on what percentages and all that but I am still not comfortable with the bone thing and my husband is getting used to the whole idea as well. I do realize that it needs to be balanced as I am not a moron. For someone that is telling me this - you have not obviously done your research on Natural Balance. Follow your own advice why don't you and look up Ethoxyquin and tell me about that. NB uses this is in its food or either buys from a source that contains it - whatever. I have read hours upon hours UPN hours on raw and everything else under the sun about food, chemicals etc. I am learning still and doing my best. YES IAMS SUCKS, that is why he is NO LONGER ON IT! I DID switch him gradually on these things and took as much precaution as I could. I did realize I could be overloading him & have tried to slow it down. There is alot of conflicting info out there on raw and everything else with the food thing so I am trying to inform myself as much as I can before giving him bones.


No offense, but in reading this thread I thought the same as DJ, because earlier you stated this:
_
Just started the raw grnd beef and still giving him the rabbit. Haven't seen any results just yet but man I'm hoping for his sake. From what I've read this can take take time or happen overnight. Only bone he's had so far is in the pre-made. Worried about the bones hurting his insides and all that. *Signed up for a raw email group and there is alot of conflicting info on WHAT type of bones.* I may get some canned salmon or sardines with the little bones & see how that goes...cause I know he needs his calcium and supplements sometimes may not break down properly from what I gather....can u say info overload?!_

I, too, took it as you were completely new to the concept of raw and were so anxious to get him on a diet that works for him.
And even though raw is superioer (even though I don't feed it exclusively), I'm having conflicts about WHERE meat comes from that's labeled for human consumption. The growth hormones the cattle/hogs/chickens are injected with, factory farming (which I WILL NOT support), and the pesticides sprayed onto the grass that the cows eat (and the cows end up in your stew) really have me thinking. It's a lose-lose situation, unfortunately.
I hope you can get your dogs' allergies under control.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

what i said was that if you felt you wanted to start with ground for your own comfort, then so be it..and, once you get comfortable, then move on to the next step.

however, i also suggested chicken or turkey grinds, not hamburger and rabbit to start with.

i wish you well....and i'm glad you're reading....i hope you solve the problem for your shih tzu. they hold a special place in my heart.


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