# Aidan goes nuts on the leash and bites me



## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

This problem with Aidan is now happening every day, usually in the late afternoon or evening. He is not tired or hungry or suffering from lack of exercise or attention. There is no way to predict that this will occur on a particular walk. We walk around our large yard. We live in the country and have no sidewalks or neighbors, and there are no other animals around or anything that seems to cause it.

This evening was typical. I took him outside about 1/2 hour after he ate dinner. He was walking well on a loose leash. We walked all over the yard. We practiced heeling, and he did well. We walked around some more, with him on a loose leash. He eventually did his business without fanfare.

Immediately after that he went nuts. It was like he went from 0 to 60 mph in one second. He grabbed the leash in his mouth and started running back and forth, further away from me each time. Then he zoomed in on me, jumped up and bit me. 

I tried to get control by grabbing the leash at a spot closer to the collar, but I got bitten. He was leaping around, including on me, biting. I tried to step on the leash. This took forever (in reality, probably a minute) while he leaped and twisted around, trying to keep me from doing so.

When I succeeded, he started biting my shoes and trying to leap up to bite the hand that was holding the leash.

Since he couldn't get away, he calmed down. I took him into the house immediately, and he acted completely normal.

I had gone through The Bite Stops Here protocol, and he has not bitten me to the point where he draws blood in a long time, although I do have some bruises on my arms. I bleed and bruise very easily because of medication I take which thins my blood (similar to Plavix).

When he gets to where he will bite us during playtime, we put him immediately into his crate to cool down. When we let him out, he still wants to play, but immediately resumes biting behavior. For the past couple of weeks, he has been going to daycare for 4-5 hours a day three times a week. The point of that is so that he can enjoy playing with the other dogs and puppies, and to burn off some of his abundant energy.

Tonight's frenzy resulted in a 2" bite (actually more like a bleeding scratch from one tooth) on the back of my left hand and 2 puncture wounds from single teeth on my right wrist. He can't get a good bite in because he is leaping at me (like a hit and run in super fast motion) and I am trying to avoid his teeth.

It happens sometimes with my teenage boys, too, but without biting. He snaps at them as though he is going to bite them, and they bring him directly into the house. This frenzy of biting stops me from bringing him into the house until I can get him to calm down, because he is in the midst of biting me. I'm being attacked by my puppy. He does not snap at me; there is no warning.

When this happens, he is wearing either an Easy Walk Harness or an escape proof dog collar that looks like this one (http://www.petexpertise.com/dog-collars-dog-harnesses/premier-collar-eco-no-slip.html ) . He tries like crazy other times to get out of the harness and collar, too, by backing up and rolling on his back and jerking his head and body. He got out of the escape proof collar once, so I tightened it until I could fit 2 fingers under it. He also escaped from a Solvit Pet Vehicle Safety Harness.

Between worrying about him escaping from collars and harnesses, and being bitten while he is in this frenzy-mode, I am at my wit's end.

He has not been neutered yet, if that makes a difference. Our appointment with a new vet to discuss this is on Sept. 22nd.

Oh, and when he is leaping around and biting me, his upper lip under his nose is raised and I can see his teeth and gums. It is scary. Yet he doesn't seem to be angry ... he seems to be determined to run free by scaring me away from the leash or he wants me to play rough with him (as though I were a dog). But I'm no dog psychologist, so maybe I'm wrong.

What can I do about this? What am I doing wrong? He will be my dog for the next 12-15 years and I don't want to spend it being bitten.

Thank you for your advice! I am so desperate! I'm sorry this is so long ... I wanted to give a complete picture.

RC


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

RoughCollie said:


> Oh, and when he is leaping around and biting me, his upper lip under his nose is raised and I can see his teeth and gums. It is scary. Yet he doesn't seem to be angry ... he seems to be determined to run free by scaring me away from the leash or he wants me to play rough with him (as though I were a dog). But I'm no dog psychologist, so maybe I'm wrong.


I'm sorry I can't offer much advice, but this part really stood out to me. This sounds aggressive. Lifting of lips is generally not a good sign, and if I see the behavior from my dog or another, my immediate reaction is to dispel the situation using whatever means necessary (removing the offending dog, myself, or both). To me, this is not a sign of wanting to play, but a sign of wanting to do harm. Hopefully some more knowledgeable folks will be along soon to confirm/deny this and offer some advice.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I'm sorry I can't offer much advice, but this part really stood out to me. This sounds aggressive. Lifting of lips is generally not a good sign, and if I see the behavior from my dog or another, my immediate reaction is to dispel the situation using whatever means necessary (removing the offending dog, myself, or both). To me, this is not a sign of wanting to play, but a sign of wanting to do harm. Hopefully some more knowledgeable folks will be along soon to confirm/deny this and offer some advice.


That's what scares me the most because if an adult dog did it, I would sure think he was in attack mode. Is Aidan turning into an aggressive, mean dog? He is only 7 months old, so I hope not! There is no reason for it ... he has never been treated meanly or played with roughly or teased by any person. I wonder if it has anything to do with testosterone. He has developed in that area during the last 2 months, around the time this leash frenzy ordeal began. He is not otherwise aggressive.

Surely all terriers don't act like this, or no one would have one!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> To me, this is not a sign of wanting to play, but a sign of wanting to do harm.


Sometimes; sometimes not. Your obnoxious teenagers sometimes act obnoxiously. It's quite possible that Aidan prefers playing to heeling and is acting out of frustration and trying to get a game going (albeit inappropriately). A 7 month old Wheaten who intended to do harm would probably have done harm.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

Marsh Muppet said:


> A 7 month old Wheaten who intended to do harm would probably have done harm.


That is a fact. I'm getting afraid of him when he is like this, and even though I hide it, I think he's picking up on it. The fear is from my realization that if he wanted to, he could seriously hurt me. He doesn't, which is why I think he isn't angry. Plus, afterward he is his usual affectionate, playful, joyful self.


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> Sometimes; sometimes not. Your obnoxious teenagers sometimes act obnoxiously. It's quite possible that Aidan prefers playing to heeling and is acting out of frustration and trying to get a game going (albeit inappropriately). A 7 month old Wheaten who intended to do harm would probably have done harm.


My first thought was temper tantrum.

I've worked with some wheatens. That's how I know I'll never own one.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

This doesn't happen spontaneously, though with terriers reaction time is somewhat accelerated. When training a dog, watch the dog. When you see him starting to get revved up, throw a hitch around a post (drive a post in the ground if you don't already have one where you train) and step out of the circle of doom. Turn your back on him and let him thrash out his little hissy fit. It may take a while. As soon as he appears receptive, toss a treat and move in to praise. If he starts up again, repeat the lesson.

You may have to spend the better part of the morning showing him that he doesn't control the situation.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

Marsh Muppet said:


> This doesn't happen spontaneously, though with terriers reaction time is somewhat accelerated. When training a dog, watch the dog. When you see him starting to get revved up, throw a hitch around a post (drive a post in the ground if you don't already have one where you train) and step out of the circle of doom. Turn your back on him and let him thrash out his little hissy fit. It may take a while. As soon as he appears receptive, toss a treat and move in to praise. If he starts up again, repeat the lesson.
> 
> You may have to spend the better part of the morning showing him that he doesn't control the situation.


A post! That is a great idea. Thank you!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

RoughCollie said:


> A post! That is a great idea. Thank you!


Did this behavior start before or after you started daycare? I'm guessing adolescence, and possibly practice at rough play with other dogs. I would start working with some Nothing in Life is Free and stop training before you know he is going to fry. I would also look at some form of relaxation protocol and Leslie McDevitt's book "Control Unleashed" for excellent advice on teaching him self control and to be able to relax.


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

Pawzk9 said:


> Did this behavior start before or after you started daycare? I'm guessing adolescence, and possibly practice at rough play with other dogs. I would start working with some Nothing in Life is Free and stop training before you know he is going to fry. I would also look at some form of relaxation protocol and Leslie McDevitt's book "Control Unleashed" for excellent advice on teaching him self control and to be able to relax.


Or since he has been able to escape different collars/harnesses before, this is a massive extinction burst?
Or an adolescent terrier extinction burst?!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Tofu_pup said:


> ...an adolescent terrier extinction burst?!


Sounds like something that would be more fun to watch from the bleachers than the loop-end of the leash.

ETA:this kind of thing doesn't make Aidan a bad dog. With certain types of dogs, at that age, it is perfectly normal and even predictable. There are different ways to handle almost anything, but you don't want to let him learn that he can change the subject by getting physical. Consult with an experienced trainer if you are not making progress in the near term or if it gets worse..


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

RoughCollie said:


> This problem with Aidan is now happening every day, usually in the late afternoon or evening. He is not tired or hungry or suffering from lack of exercise or attention. There is no way to predict that this will occur on a particular walk. We walk around our large yard. We live in the country and have no sidewalks or neighbors, and there are no other animals around or anything that seems to cause it.


This kind of stood out to me.....Caeda used to do these freakouts too....she still occasionally does but she isn't near as bad. We also live in a rural neighborhood, no sidewalks etc, there are occasionally dogs around, but it doesn't seem like they prompt it. It has occurred to me though that perhaps your dog can smell something!!
Rural means wildlife, wildlife means smells. Is there any kind of animal that might be passing through at this time of year? That is the only thing I can think that could cause it that no human would notice. 
Can you see these tantrums coming at all? If you can see an initial twitch or expression maybe you could make him sit before he gets wound up, give a couple of treats, try to keep him calm. It might work, it might not....just a thought!
Of course adolescent tantrums make sense too....we've been experiencing those occasionally too lol.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

This started before he went to daycare. This is his second week of daycare. The Friday before he started going there, he and I spent 2 hours there getting acquainted with the people and the dogs.

He did it again this morning, right after he did his business! He didn't have a chance to start biting me. In my sleep-befuddled mind, my first thought was "be a tree". He twirled me around! So I thought "screw this", and I marched to the house and he came along willingly. Ever since, he's been napping and getting up only to follow me from room to room (as he always does).

Anyhow, that is the one marker of all this: It happens right after he finishes going to the bathroom. But not every time ... usually we walk all over the place after he goes, for 15-45 minutes. He has favorite places to check out (every hole in the ground, in underbrush of trees and plants that border the stream, the path the deer take to the stream). We also take him out on the 50' lead so he can run around more freely and play with us and, on warm days, play in his pool and with the hose. 

He doesn't go in the stream ... there is a steep hill leading to it, and it has not been full of _moving_ water because it didn't rain all summer except for 3x in the last 2 weeks. I had to put large bowls of water out for all the nesting birds; the deer got water from a pond somewhere around here, according to a guy I talked to about it.

Aidan is a lot stronger on the leash than he looks. One of the owners (a strong young man in his 20s) of the daycare mentioned that to me yesterday. It surprised him. 

Anyhow, I don't think Aidan is a bad dog. I think I am primarily the problem. The first few weeks of dog school, I got a lot of feedback about how I don't sound firm when I deal with Aidan. I thought firm sounded mean. I was so used to having a collie that from the start, Aidan had me flummoxed. When we got Aidan, I wasn't used to puppies and I had grown complacent because Teddy (our collie) had been an easy, cooperative dog. Aidan takes more effort ... Ted and I were a lot alike, on the same wavelength, except I don't herd anything. Aidan requires a lot more of me that I am not used to. I am not in my comfort zone with him -- I have to make a deliberate effort to meet his needs so that he will be a happy, well-adjusted, dog. I'm not complaining -- I think Aidan keeps me on my toes, and that's a good thing!

I think Aidan has discovered he can intimidate me, even though I try not to show it. He is escalating. At first, he didn't bite, he just leaped around me and on me. When he started biting, he didn't lift his upper lip so I could see his gums. Now he does. I would not be surprised if he thinks this is a fun game.

Since I don't have anything to attach his leash to when he starts this, I'm going to try going immediately to the house instead of wasting time trying to get him under control like I thought I should. It worked this morning, when I was still too sleepy to deal with it.

I really appreciate your help and comments.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

RoughCollie said:


> Anyhow, that is the one marker of all this: It happens right after he finishes going to the bathroom. But not every time ...


Also common. Rusty used to go temporarily insane after bowel movements. I don't know why but used to speculate that his brains went out the back end. They seemed to grow back after a few minutes. Preventing the rampage is better than stopping it.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

Greater Swiss said:


> Rural means wildlife, wildlife means smells. Is there any kind of animal that might be passing through at this time of year? That is the only thing I can think that could cause it that no human would notice.
> Can you see these tantrums coming at all?


I rarely see wildlife, except for birds. I know animals are out there -- I have seen deer, groundhogs, possums, a vole or mole, mice, and squirrels. There are 100 dairy cows in the pasture of the farm across the road, and plenty of farm cats. Aidan ignores them all. He rarely looks up, except to sniff the wind when the cows are especially fragrant ... he is busy sniffing the ground.

The tantrums happen out of the blue, from one second to the next. It always happens right after he finishes going to the bathroom, and it is once a day. He does this with the kids a lot more, but he never tries to bite them -- he snaps at their legs -- and they take him directly into the house. Duh! I did that this morning and didn't get bitten.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

Cherokee shoots off like a rocket after he poops, like he's jet propelled! It's like that poop was just weighing him down and he must run for joy! He's 5 years old and, occasionally, when over stimulated, will have a tantrum on leash. He doesn't bite or nip me but he does jump up and down and bite onto the leash and I just ignore him until he settles. If he were biting me I would be much more likely to be intimidated so, I see where you are coming from! Could you possibly keep a toy with you and stuff that in his mouth when he comes at you? I know Cherokee would like that and, if it was a tug toy, we could have a nice game of tug to release that glee of having just pooped.


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## hast (Aug 17, 2011)

I agree with starting NILIF ... and after he's pooped, jog with him for a bit or play tug or something else to let his energy out when he gets the zoomies.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

Aidan hasn't bitten me in a couple of days! The second he starts his frenzy, I grab the leash about a foot away from his collar and we go inside. He cooperates. When we get to the porch steps, he eagerly goes inside. From that point on, he is his usual self.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Nice! Great job dealing with him. It sounds like he is catching on!


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

Marsh Muppet said:


> Also common. Rusty used to go temporarily insane after bowel movements. I don't know why but used to speculate that his brains went out the back end. They seemed to grow back after a few minutes. Preventing the rampage is better than stopping it.


:laugh:

Can't help it--that's funny!

I take it the OP doesn't have a fenced yard? Because if you did, my first instinct would be to just turn on my heel and leave him in the yard alone for a while, let him cool down, and then go back. If he's still being obnoxious, repeat. 

My IW is almost 8 months old, his balls have grown and I'm sure he's feeling a bit of testosterone. Sometimes he gets a bit rambunctious and carried away. I just do the same thing I do if he starts to paw at me (which, at 120 pounds, can hurt!), I turn around with my arms folded and ignore him and walk away. 

Of course, the raised lip. . . I'm not sure what that might mean.


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## RoughCollie (Mar 7, 2011)

IWlover said:


> I take it the OP doesn't have a fenced yard?


That is correct, sadly.


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