# Crating Nightmare! Non-Stop crying for HOURS!



## graficoartista31 (Feb 16, 2007)

Hello,

I have a problem! I have been crating my puppy for over a mo. now and thus far goes to sleep when I put him in there and then no issues until i woke him 8 hours later. Now, more recently, he has decided to wake up earlier then 8 hours and since some days I'm able to sleep in, i will take him out, let him pee, and put him back in the crate for a few more hours (3) till I wake up. (No biggy since thats how it works when I have to work so no different if i sleep instead of work). Well, now when I put him back in the crate, he decided to CRY for HOURS!!! Pretty much the whole time i try to catch some rest. I try to ignore him but by doing so I worry i am not teaching him how to be quiet. I know they say to ignore them and then only let them out when they are quiet which will teach them that silence gets them out, but he doesnt seem to care! How can I affectively teach my puppy to be quiet in the crate when I need a break! 

FYI, I recently took him to a kennel for a week while i was out of town and I am worried he learned to bark non stop which is the reason for his fussiness especially the fact that he got to sleep with my older dog in the same kennel and is now alone at night again. Do you see this as just another ajustment or something I need to adress and if so, how? What makes me believe its not the kennel that did this is that he started to become ornery in the crate a few days before the kennel. I would take him out, Put him back in the crate for a few more hours and he would cry. So .. hmm any suggestions? I would leave him out but i don't trust him in my house yet.


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

This is what I give my puppy people about crate training.... it is specific towards my breed but the basics are the same..... 
Crate Training

Every puppy needs to learn to Relax in a crate. This is important to a puppy’s future. It makes stays at the vet much easier, whenever they have to be confined for medical reasons. It is also necessary for traveling or if you need to board your dog away from home. It’s important during the destructive chewing stage that is likely when your pup hits several months of age. This stage can last until age 2 or so and with flat coats, until they are much older. Another critical time where a crate is needed is during any transitions, and times when you cannot watch your puppy every second. So it’s very important that your new puppy learns to relax in their crate. 
When a puppy is trained and reliable in the house which can take quite a long time with a flat coat puppy, the crate may be used while you are away to keep your house intact and your puppy safe. Regardless of whether you choose to continue using your crate throughout your puppy’s life or not, it is very important that they are used to their crates. 
Usually it works best if you crate your puppy in your bedroom, and yes, close to the bed is fine. In the bed is not, not for the puppy that is going to go through so much transition as it rapidly matures over the next year. If you want your dog to share your bed, wait until after puberty to try that. Make sure that the crate is far enough from the bed that you don’t wake up in the middle of the night to find that your puppy has pulled and is eating all of your blankets inside the crate. It is amazing what a puppy can manage to pull through those bars. I should add that you don’t have to put your puppy in your bedroom. None of my dogs as puppies were in the bedroom, they were downstairs where the noise was muffled just a little, and where when they needed to go out, they had ready access to a door. 
Crate training is also a great way to housebreak your puppy. Dogs do not like to soil where they sleep. Puppies are exactly the same and most puppies do not wish to soil their sleeping area. This makes crate training an excellent tool to teach the puppy that they can hold it and that they need to go outside to potty. 
The first thing that you want to do is make sure your crate is sized properly. I buy crates that will accommodate my dog as an adult. I want my adult dogs to be able to relax and stretch out in their crates. However, an adult sized crate is way too big for your average puppy. There are many ways to make a crate smaller. I have packed the back of my crates with cardboard boxes…. As the puppy grows I remove some of the boxes. Newer crates come with dividers that can be moved allowing the puppy more room as he/she grows. In a nutshell, you want your puppy to have enough room to sit, stand and lie down, that’s it. You don’t want your puppy to have room to pee on one side of the crate and then move to the other side of the crate to sleep. This is a studio apartment we are talking about here, not a condo. 
One last point about crate training is that you should not put any kind of bed or sheepskin or anything that you think your puppy can chew and destroy or swallow into the crate. The only toy that I allow in a crate even with my adult dogs is a kong. This is a chewable rubber like toy that can be filled with peanut butter or yogurt and frozen to give puppy something to do while you are gone. 
Now your puppy is not going to be pleased that you have infringed upon his autonomy and his god given right to run throughout your home and pee upon the furniture. It is highly likely that he/she will pitch a fit in the crate. You will want to go and cuddle him and console him and assure him that you will never again put him in that nasty “cage”. OK, two things, get over the “cage” issue. A crate is not a “cage” it is your puppy’s space, his very own space. This means that nobody is allowed in your puppy’s crate except your puppy. This also means kids are not allowed in the crate, as much as you might like to crate them at times, get them their own crate. Second, turn around and walk away. Do not, and I repeat Do not succumb to the screaming. You can do this! You are the human, and you have the power to ignore a pitiful wailing puppy. 
The worst thing that people do when they crate train is let the puppy holler and scream for a long period of time and then when they are on their very last nerve, they let the puppy out, simply because they just can’t stand it anymore. STOP, don’t do it! You will teach your puppy that persistence pays off. He will learn “gee, if I scream for a long time she lets me out…. Sweet!”. If you are sure that your puppy doesn’t need to go out (i.e. He pottied five minutes prior to being put in the crate) then let him/her yell. When he is quiet for more than a second because he is taking a breath, then you can let him out. Your puppy will rapidly learn that he can come out of his crate ONLY when he is quiet. 
I find that night time is a little harder. My two flat-coats created quite a stink in their crates for about the first two weeks that they were home. They screamed, they cried, they body slammed the crate, and it was hard to tell at midnight and at 1am and 2 am and 2:15 am and 2:30 am (you get the idea), if they had to go potty. I would get up periodically and let them out and they thought it was wonderful to be outside chasing lightning bugs at 2 in the morning. I was not quite as pleased. You have to use your judgment. A puppy IS going to have to go out during the night, that is a fact of life. You have to use your judgment about the need to take them out during the night. I generally pick up all food AND water at 7 pm. They go out to potty at around 9 before I go to bed. I can be pretty sure that the puppy is ok for at least 45 minutes. If they are still screaming and I start thinking “hmm I wonder if they have to go out?” I take the puppy out, ON A LEASH. I don’t care if the yard is fenced, I don’t care if it is safe. It is not playtime, this is potty time. If the puppy does not “go” within say ten minutes. Back into the house and crate he goes. You can only hope that at some point your puppy will cry themselves to sleep. The key is that as badly as you want them to be quiet, no matter if you have a meeting at 8 the next morning, let them yell. Don’t yell back, don’t coddle them. 
There are people who feel that if you are home your puppy should be out with you. I don’t entirely agree with this. Your crate should not be overused of course, but there are times when it is impossible to watch your puppy every second. If it is one of those times, then the puppy needs to be in his crate. I can also say that after a week of my flat coats pitching a fit every night in the crate, I started crating them more during the day. They needed to start getting used to the crate, and I needed to get some sleep. The more they were crated during the day, the faster they got used to their crates and the easier life got. 
It can be very difficult crate training a puppy. It is heart wrenching to listen to this baby scream and cry, but it is the best thing that you can do for both you and your puppy. Now I have four dogs, two are 3.5 years old, one is 2 and one is ten months. There are 3 crates available and most of the time, the doors to the crates are left open and yes the dogs do go in their crates to relax. I can train one dog and the others can hang out in the crates without being stressed. If they see the nail clippers, the first thing they do is run to their crates; they know I won’t pull them out of there. The crates have become their homes and it works out the best for all of us.


----------



## Elijah (Dec 30, 2006)

I think this was excellent advice, Shalva. Human nature want to retrieve that crying, cute, pitiful little puppy but, we pay a price for it (two hours sleep) if we do.


----------



## MaxsMom (Mar 11, 2007)

I agree with everything that Shalva has said. I've had Max for a little over a month and I was fortunate that the breeder was crate training him before I even got him, so by the time I got him he wimpered a little bit when he first went in his cage, but just would go to sleep. I remembered leaving him during the day and he would cry and cry and cry, but eventually now he just lays down and relaxes. I ended up going from a crate to a small cage with Max. It's just big enough for him to lay down and walk around, but he does not want to potty in there.


----------



## Ginny01OT (Dec 3, 2006)

My dog cried also. I would come home and lunchtime to let him out and play with him, etc. and then I would put him back in the crate when I left. I could hear him crying outside while I was getting into the car to go back to work. It broke my heart but I knew he was safe. At night it wasn't too much of an issue; maybe in the mornings you sleep in and he cries in the crate he is hungry because he is used to being fed at an earlier time--maybe put a little treat in the crate and some chew toys and see if that helps. Good luck,


----------



## graficoartista31 (Feb 16, 2007)

Thankyou so much! All the advise given is truely helpful. I have been practicing the "HAULT" from running to the dog when he cried but when I noticed he wasnt getting the message (he did for a while actually until recently) since he now LOVES playing with my older dog...he thinks OOO Sunlight! Playtime! BARK! So i started to wonder if i should be doing something more proactive to teach him since he wasnt getting it. 

But i now realize i must stick to this method. I hope it passes! On normal week days, i go to bed at 12am and wake up at 6am to let him out to pee and eat which is before he naturally wakes up. After 30 mins he goes back in his crate and I get ready for work. Since its still early, he passes back out! 

I tend to have the ornery nucence when its the weekend or after work when I could use an powernap. Weekday naps after work (since i dont get much sleep at night) are necessary but hard to pull off since he has been in the crate for the previous night and all the next day and I feel bad about bringing him out to eat and play after work, only to put him back in the crate while i attempt a powernap. I feel bad because I want my puppy to have all the possible time outside the crate and after work between 6pm and 10pm is all he gets for now and yet I need 30 mins of relaxation after a long workday since I know its back to work at home doing chores. Yes I know this is typical mommy stuff and even harder when you have kids, but even then, powernaps are important to keep up and thats what I have a hard time scheduling especially with a puppy who wants out of his crate!

Weekends are even worse! I go to bed at 12am and can easily sleep in till 11am but my puppy chooses otherwise! I let him out to potty around the same time i do durring the week, and if i snooze the alarm, or even when I don't set one, my puppy alerts me with wimpers that he needs to go.... but when I put him back in, so I can continue my sleep, he starts to cry and wont stop! Urgh! And ignoring him would be lovely but his crys are sooo ear piercing i can't sleep so whats the point of sleeping in? 

Like I said, normally he is great, like tonight we had a big day so i came home and I took a nap without any of his barking. But sometimes.. its painful!


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

the thing is that no matter what you do DO NOT let him out of the crate if he is pitching a fit...... hide behind a doorway or soemthing and then when he stops even just for a second to take a breath then jump out praise him for being quiet and let him out..... puppyhood is painful.... I know..... but you can do this .... you might just have to change your sleep schedule for a while. 
good luck 
oh and we often work on the sleep deprivation method of pupphood.... a tired puppy is a good quiet puppy and when they get like this sometimes we will not let them take long long naps.... they have to learn to sleep when we are asleep.... you might also try darkening curtains in his room.... or blinds so that it stays dark in there.... 
good luck 
S


----------



## graficoartista31 (Feb 16, 2007)

thanks! Last night was a good night. I actually tried to see how he would do if I just slept in and didnt wake up at 7am with him.. and it worked! He wimpered for a bit but fell right back asleep. I thought he may have eliminated in his crate but when I woke up, I checked his blanket and no sign of wetness... so Hmm. Plus, when we went out to potty this morning, he had a TON of pee so that made me feel better that he didnt go inside his crate. It may have been an ajustment from being in the same kennel with our other dog for a week to going back into his crate alone at night. We will see! Your right...Puppy hood is TOUGH!!! I can't wait till he is old enough to hold it and that maybe in a year (god!! how far away!) he can be out of his crate while we are gone so he can play with his buddy. Im not looking forward to that transition! I don't even know where to begin. He can hold it for atleast 8 hours in the crate at night and then almost 2 hours outside the crate. urrghh! No wonder poeple get dogs pre potty trained and house broken and cage trained! I don't blame them!


----------



## MaxsMom (Mar 11, 2007)

graficoartista31 said:


> Your right...Puppy hood is TOUGH!!!


Yes it is!  Max is my first puppy I'm 100% responsible for and he is just 13 weeks. He's more of a handful than I expected. However, I have him go to doggie day care a couple of times a week and we go to puppy education at Petsmart on Thursday nights. (we are in our 3rd week this week). I think the best thing people can do is socialize their dogs with people and other pets. It has made a world of difference with Max.


----------



## graficoartista31 (Feb 16, 2007)

*"Crate Training Nightmare" The day in the life of owning a PUPPY!*

My boyfriend trained our first dog before we met and he is an AWSOME dog! This too is my first puppy,.. may i say "PUPPY" i am responsible for also. I too feel its way harder then i expected. Thank god for their cuteness! Hehe. I thought about obedience school and the day care, but 1) the schooling is a bit expensive and ofcourse my b/f feels unnesesary since as a guy he feels since he did it without a class, then I can to... and 2) the only day care I like is 45 mins away when we use it to travel. Not a huge convienence to use during the week. Great Ideas though! If i was single I would have opted for the classes but hey.. cant argue with the breadwinner can ya!. Especially when you spend over $800 unplanned dollars for a puppy.  Things are going well better however, There has been a sudden change in household as I just got a new job after being home everyday for the first month of having him. But luckly I had been putting him in the crate while I was home so he is a bit more used to it. Im not looking forward to after work time when he is RAMBUNCOUS (spelling) and eager to play when Im beat from a long day at work. We will see!! Keep you all posted!!


----------



## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

IMHO, you are crating your puppy for too long a time. I don't agree with the method of letting the puppy scream in his crate, especially after being in there for so many hours. Crate training, done properly, is done in small increments over time, with the objective being that the crate is a wonderful place, and, that you will return. Keeping a puppy in a crate for 11 hours with just a potty break in between is way too much crate time. Your puppy needs mental stimulation, socialization, and physical release of pent-up energy through exercise. 

I understand that you would like another 3 or more hours of sleep after he's already been in his crate for 8 hrs., but this is asking a lot of a puppy, and not a healthy decision. The fact that he's crated all night, and then for another 8-10 hours (if you work full-time), is really hard on that puppy. It's no wonder he's crying! 16 hrs. of crate time with a short break before you leave for work is excessive. A puppy is a huge committment and responsibility, and, the puppy's needs are of a higher priority than your desire to go back to bed. He won't be a puppy forever. If you must sleep more than 8 hours, then hire someone to interact with him - a pet sitter who comes to your home, or take him to doggie daycare. 

I work nights (midnight to 8:00 am). I leave at 11:30pm, and get home at 8:30am. I have a neighbor (or my daughter when he can't) check on my dogs at 7:00 am. Rarely do they go out, even when given the opportunity, prefering to sleep in until I arrive home. Now, they've already been asleep for a good 8 hrs., and I need to go to sleep because I've been up all night. What do I do? I take them for a run on the beach, and we play hard and fast with the frisbee and soccer ball. Three hours later, I'm home in bed. But the dogs have had their exercise. My dogs will soon be six years old, so they could deal with just a quick jaunt out in the back yard, so I could get much-needed sleep. But a puppy's needs are greater than an adult dog's, and keeping him crated for so many hours may end in his shutting down, closely resembling failure to thrive in an infant. If your puppy was, instead, your human infant, I'm sure you wouldn't let that baby scream in his crib. Like human babies, puppies need social interaction, comfort, and care, and not always when it's convenient for you. 









graficoartista31 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a problem! I have been crating my puppy for over a mo. now and thus far goes to sleep when I put him in there and then no issues until i woke him 8 hours later. Now, more recently, he has decided to wake up earlier then 8 hours and since some days I'm able to sleep in, i will take him out, let him pee, and put him back in the crate for a few more hours (3) till I wake up. (No biggy since thats how it works when I have to work so no different if i sleep instead of work). Well, now when I put him back in the crate, he decided to CRY for HOURS!!! Pretty much the whole time i try to catch some rest. I try to ignore him but by doing so I worry i am not teaching him how to be quiet. I know they say to ignore them and then only let them out when they are quiet which will teach them that silence gets them out, but he doesnt seem to care! How can I affectively teach my puppy to be quiet in the crate when I need a break!
> 
> FYI, I recently took him to a kennel for a week while i was out of town and I am worried he learned to bark non stop which is the reason for his fussiness especially the fact that he got to sleep with my older dog in the same kennel and is now alone at night again. Do you see this as just another ajustment or something I need to adress and if so, how? What makes me believe its not the kennel that did this is that he started to become ornery in the crate a few days before the kennel. I would take him out, Put him back in the crate for a few more hours and he would cry. So .. hmm any suggestions? I would leave him out but i don't trust him in my house yet.


----------



## graficoartista31 (Feb 16, 2007)

I completely see your view and where your comming from but i don't agree. Yes, i shouldn't expect the puppy to hold it for 11 hours all at once, but 80% of the world DOES work normal shifts and sleeps the night prior. So that means bed time at 11pm, Wake up at 6am, PLAY TIME till 7am, and then I'll come home at lunch, let him play for a half hour around noon time, then at 6 I come home and let him out for his play and dinner till 11pm. So although you feel the "CRATING" for 8 hours during the night, then 8 hours after during work is alot, its NECESSARY! There is not much more you can do unless your rich and can aford a baby sitter to come let your dog out (when really, he is sleeping and has no idea of the time). My puppy (and my other dog who is 5 yrs) play ALL THE TIME! So he gets his needed exercise. And when I am home, he is out of his crate. It is not heard of to have this schedule. Actually majority of dog owners do/or have done this exact schedule (including my b/f and his dog is great!) and their dogs are great dogs!

As far as the crate crying.. If it was nap time for your baby and he cried would you walk back into the room? Sure in the begining but you would find that this would teach the baby "oo if i cry she will pick me up or what not". This is not cruel. This is teaching the child that it is nap time and crying will not let you out. Same with a puppy. I noticed when I first go the puppy and I ran to it everytime it cried, he cried more and more and it got worse. The moment ignored him during nap time or what not, the less he cried and went strait to bed. So, although we would all love the opportunity to coddle our babies, they need to be taught when it's playtime and when its quiet time. Read any book you want. It talks about it in them. 

F.Y.I.. I started to get up at my normal work day time on the weekends to give the puppy it's normal "playtime and meal" and then I will go back to bed when i would normally go to work. He actually stoped crying and now waits for me to wake up. So problem solved! So no biggy. Adults need nap time too!


----------



## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

graficoartista31 said:


> I completely see your view and where your comming from but i don't agree. Yes, i shouldn't expect the puppy to hold it for 11 hours all at once, but 80% of the world DOES work normal shifts and sleeps the night prior. So that means bed time at 11pm, Wake up at 6am, PLAY TIME till 7am, and then I'll come home at lunch, let him play for a half hour around noon time, then at 6 I come home and let him out for his play and dinner till 11pm. So although you feel the "CRATING" for 8 hours during the night, then 8 hours after during work is alot, its NECESSARY! There is not much more you can do unless your rich and can aford a baby sitter to come let your dog out (when really, he is sleeping and has no idea of the time). My puppy (and my other dog who is 5 yrs) play ALL THE TIME! So he gets his needed exercise. And when I am home, he is out of his crate. It is not heard of to have this schedule. Actually majority of dog owners do/or have done this exact schedule (including my b/f and his dog is great!) and their dogs are great dogs!
> 
> As far as the crate crying.. If it was nap time for your baby and he cried would you walk back into the room? Sure in the begining but you would find that this would teach the baby "oo if i cry she will pick me up or what not". This is not cruel. This is teaching the child that it is nap time and crying will not let you out. Same with a puppy. I noticed when I first go the puppy and I ran to it everytime it cried, he cried more and more and it got worse. The moment ignored him during nap time or what not, the less he cried and went strait to bed. So, although we would all love the opportunity to coddle our babies, they need to be taught when it's playtime and when its quiet time. Read any book you want. It talks about it in them.
> 
> F.Y.I.. I started to get up at my normal work day time on the weekends to give the puppy it's normal "playtime and meal" and then I will go back to bed when i would normally go to work. He actually stoped crying and now waits for me to wake up. So problem solved! So no biggy. Adults need nap time too!


DITTO

excellent response..... we are not talking about leaving the puppy for an entire day and I don't think anyone WANTS to have to leave their puppy in the crate that much time..... however, if a person wants to have a housebroken well behaved dog the puppy must get used to being in a crate and that can be difficult for a while..... I think Graphic has done a great job with her kid..... and when the pup is trustworthy then he will get more time out of the crate..... but until then life does happen...... 
S


----------



## graficoartista31 (Feb 16, 2007)

Shalva said:


> DITTO
> 
> excellent response..... we are not talking about leaving the puppy for an entire day and I don't think anyone WANTS to have to leave their puppy in the crate that much time..... however, if a person wants to have a housebroken well behaved dog the puppy must get used to being in a crate and that can be difficult for a while..... I think Graphic has done a great job with her kid..... and when the pup is trustworthy then he will get more time out of the crate..... but until then life does happen......
> S


Thank you so much for your support! It is so hard and I think everyone wonders if they are doing the right thing. It's been said, everyone always knows how someone else should handle their child/pet but when they attempt a stab at it, it can be easier said then done. With that said, I used to think parenting would be easy; always critisizing other mothers/fathers on their techniques and now that I have a SAMPLE of what parenting would be like, i have a completely different outlook. Its hard work! And we want the best for our pets/children. 

I am so grateful for this site and everyones helpful tips and tricks; whether we follow the advise provided for us thru others, it is such a great feeling to read about other people experiencing the same things we are; helping us feel not so alone. Owning a PUPPY can be VERY challenging (more then I expected) and, just like a mother needing a support group on raising children, I am very happy that there is a site for pet owners too! 

UPDATE: DV now sits quietly in his crate again but this is basing it off of a typical work morning. We will see how the weekend goes. I will say, after my first week back at work, im exhausted! So sleeping in sounds so good. But I will try and stick to 8 hours max for the little guy and let him out to play like a work week, then put him back in as if i went to work for a few more hours sleep. :crossing fingers!:


----------



## symons (Apr 2, 2007)

Do anyone have any suggestions on how to get a 19 month old lab/retriever mix into a crate? We adopted him from a shelter and he doesn't know what a crate is. I tried working with him to get used to it but he's smart - he won't go in no matter how we tempt him, in the mornings when it's time for us to go to work. He runs off and hides to avoid it. He'll go in only if we throw treats in and that's only after we have returned from work.


----------



## very_vizsla (Apr 3, 2007)

my dog used to cry a lot in her crate, then we moved it to our bedroom & the crying stopped. she could still see us in the bed & she didn't feel so alone. after all, dogs are social animals & want to be with the 'pack'


----------

