# Is my puppy american bulldog or pitbull??



## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

Deleting this thread


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If you can't trust the breeder you chose to buy from I don't know what to tell you. And a 5-week-old pup is WAY to young to be away from his mother and littermates. I don't think this is a good situation at all. 

But, for whatever it's worth, the father looks like your basic "pit bull type" dog. Probably not a registered APBT (OK, certainly not, at 100 pounds), but what can you expect from a breeder that sells a pup at 5 weeks? He may have some AB mixed in, I think it's a fairly common mix.


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## sscott87 (Feb 19, 2012)

With the above already stated, it doesn't mean you're destined to have a horrible puppy, but for the best interests of both you and the pup, you should definitely dig in deeper and research and look to see what you can do as far as helping the pup develop. I can't tell you much more than the above that Willowy has already said, but there are people on here who can and sources to direct you to. There are good reasons why 8 weeks is generally the accepted answer as to the earliest that you want to take a puppy from its mother and siblings. There are behaviors, such as bite inhibition as the most well-known, that he very likely hasn't really learned yet that puppies learn around that age and the following weeks. My only additional comment on that entire topic simply goes along with the breeder remark already stated by Willowy, but if you can't trust the breeder or have not researched to find that the breeder is indeed reliable, then I hope you did not pay a large amount with high expectations.

Regardless, cute puppy, but I can't honestly say from the pictures whether they are full AB or not. While they definitely aren't purely pit...I don't know, but I can see why you are at least questioning it lol


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks for the advice but that wasnt my question. I am very advanced when it comes to puppies and i took him home early because i took him to the vet for just a check up and parvo shot and he ended up having worms. so if i would have taken him back to his mom he would have got it again. so i took him home and him nurse with another pitbull family that i have at home with pitbull puppies his same age. And the breeder i got him from is not a bad breeder and neither is he the best. but what i can say he has gorgeous dogs. He just hasnt put in the money he needs to as fare as paper work but his dogs are gorgeous. Im taking care of him like no other so the breeder conversation is irrelevant. I just want to know what people think about him being pitbull or american bulldog. his bloodline has been kept tight for 3 generations. his dad is also his brother. he is the 3rd litter of pups from his mother. his dad came from his mom's first litter of pups. Im thinking he is American Bull Mix With Pitbull Or Maybe Full Pitbull...this is the advice i need


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Similar breeds. I think your puppy is a mutt, and somewhere in between the two breeds- if you don't buy from a breeder that registers their dogs (and sometimes even if they do) you cannot say with certainty what the puppy is.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

I'm confused about his pedigree and his dad also being his brother? You said


> his dad came from his mom's first litter of pups.


 Does that mean your breeder did a mother to son breeding to produce your pup?

As far as what his breed is I would say he is what he was sold to you as. As long as you love and enjoy him then that's all that really matters anyways. 

Is there a particular reason you want to know his breed (i.e. Insurance or breeding) or are you just curious about what breed we think he is?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

An _inbred_ 5-week-old pup? Lovely.

Anyway, if you know his bloodlines have been "kept tight" you should what breed they are. Pit bulls aren't supposed to be 100 pounds so there must be something mixed in, but the breeder ought to know what he's breeding if, as you say, he's not a bad breeder.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

animalcraker said:


> I'm confused about his pedigree and his dad also being his brother? You said Does that mean your breeder did a mother to son breeding to produce your pup?


I literally just tried to diagram this and can't figure out how its possible.

Wait I got it. Goodness gracious I dont even want to know what the COI of that litter was.


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bulldog ...Go to this link and go all the way down to the bottom and look at the american bulldog puppy picture..this puppy and any other american bulldog puppy looks identical to mines but different colors...my uncle is a former breeder of johnson american bulldogs and he says that the dad for sure american bulldog from the looks...so i am just curious..regardless i know for sure this dog will turn out bad ass because his dad and all the previous puppies from this same family have turned out to be some of the best working dogs i have seen...so i got him not caring if he is mixed or not...the question is what if hes full pitbull..that will mean he has basically created his own bloodline..my pup was 5 pound at 5 weeks old...way bigger then any pitbull will ever be...these dogs are massive in size..that is why i was wondering if there is american bulldog somewhere down the line because pitbulls rarely get 100+pounds


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

ccalvin901 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bulldog ...Go to this link and go all the way down to the bottom and look at the american bulldog puppy picture..this puppy and any other american bulldog puppy looks identical to mines but different colors...my uncle is a former breeder of johnson american bulldogs and he says that the dad for sure american bulldog from the looks...so i am just curious..regardless i know for sure this dog will turn out bad ass because his dad and all the previous puppies from this same family have turned out to be some of the best working dogs i have seen...so i got him not caring if he is mixed or not...the question is what if hes full pitbull..that will mean he has basically created his own bloodline..my pup was 5 pound at 5 weeks old...way bigger then any pitbull will ever be...these dogs are massive in size..that is why i was wondering if there is american bulldog somewhere down the line because pitbulls rarely get 100+pounds


I think you forgot the link.

Weird. NVM!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

ccalvin901 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bulldog ...Go to this link and go all the way down to the bottom and look at the american bulldog puppy picture..this puppy and any other american bulldog puppy looks identical to mines but different colors...my uncle is a former breeder of johnson american bulldogs and he says that the dad for sure american bulldog from the looks...so i am just curious..regardless i know for sure this dog will turn out bad ass because his dad and all the previous puppies from this same family have turned out to be some of the best working dogs i have seen...so i got him not caring if he is mixed or not...the question is what if hes full pitbull..that will mean he has basically created his own bloodline..my pup was 5 pound at 5 weeks old...way bigger then any pitbull will ever be...these dogs are massive in size..that is why i was wondering if there is american bulldog somewhere down the line because pitbulls rarely get 100+pounds


Wait, so you know the sire is a purebred AmBulldog. That would therefore make it impossible for your puppy to be a purebred Pit. Am I missing something?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Willowy said:


> An _inbred_ 5-week-old pup? Lovely.


Yurrrp.
lordamercy.


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

Let me brake it all the way down. The person i got the pup from is not a breeder looking to make money. He has a lot of bad ass pitbulls and he simply has them because he loves the dogs. He hasnt tried registering any of his big boys because he simply is not looking to make money..he just keep them fed, socialized, trained, and "big"..i dont care if the dog is mixed or not because i know for a fact how he will turn out..i am just curious that maybe he actually has american bulldog and not pitbull but doesnt know...and breeding mother and son is perfectly fine...that is how you produce tri-color pitbulls because both carry the same recessive gene....breeding brother and sister from the same litter is were the problem is and this is not the case...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

YOU think breeding mother to son is "perfectly fine". A lot of people here don't. And letting pups go at 5 weeks is never OK.

And registering is not about making money. It's about having a database of pedigrees so people don't have to guess about their dog's heritage.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

LOL
Goodnight, forum. See you tomorrow.


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

willowy said:


> you think breeding mother to son is "perfectly fine". A lot of people here don't. And letting pups go at 5 weeks is never ok.


read my 1st response!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

ccalvin901 said:


> read my 1st response!


Yeah. . .you said he was neglecting his dogs (or implied as much). And then you said he's not a bad breeder. Hmm.


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

willowy said:


> yeah. . .you said he was neglecting his dogs (or implied as much). And then you said he's not a bad breeder. Hmm.


i never said anything like neglecting. I said he hasnt registered any of his big dogs...but if your not looking to make money of them there isnt a need to do so...but the dogs are well taking care of...you cant get a 100+pound ,socialized, trained dog like that and its neglected lol...but let me ask you a question...what do you feed your dog??


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

It sounds like you really want the puppy to be an American Bulldog, for whatever reason... but actually have no reason to think he's anything other than a mutt.

You can't really tell people not to comment about the puppy being only 5 weeks old and separated from the litter. You don't have the authority to censor people.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

You said the pup couldn't go back to the litter due to untreated worms. Which sounds like neglect. It was your excuse not mine. If the dogs were not being neglected you could have returned him to his mother to complete his development. So. . .


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

Fyi...a pitbull is a mutt like many other breeds...pitbulls are bulldog mixed with terrior...so calling this dog a mutt if it is mixed with american bulldog doesnt hold much weight..


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

The sire definitely looks more American Bulldog-ish to me than APBT. Dam looks like your typical Pit Bull mix. Without papers from a reputable registry, you'll never know for sure exactly what's behind the pups lineage.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Look, if your friend is not a bad breeder, ask him what breed the father of your pup's brother/father is and then you'll know.


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

I absolutely was not denigrating him by saying he's a mutt. What that word means, to me, is that he's a mix of unknown heritage.

The only thing that you do know about him is that his COI (coefficient of inbreeding) is at least 25%. Which is the same COI as for a sister/brother breeding, by the way. So I'm not sure what you think the difference is.


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

willowy said:


> you said the pup couldn't go back to the litter due to untreated worms. Which sounds like neglect. It was your excuse not mine. If the dogs were not being neglected you could have returned him to his mother to complete his development. So. . .


neglected would mean the dog is not taking care of and left alone...look at the picture...does that damn dog look neglected???...and me keeping the pup wasnt bad at all because i have a entire litter of pitbull pups that he mixes right in with...im here looking for breed discussion not any advice on anything else


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Obviously he's at least 3/4 pit bull. Since his mother is a pit bull and his father/brother is at least half pit bull. What his other 1/4 is should be something the breeder could tell you.


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

begemot said:


> it sounds like you really want the puppy to be an american bulldog, for whatever reason... But actually have no reason to think he's anything other than a mutt.
> 
> You can't really tell people not to comment about the puppy being only 5 weeks old and separated from the litter. You don't have the authority to censor people.



like i said about 5 times now...there is a full litter of full blood pitts that he mixes right in with...so him leaving at 5 weeks means nothing....but its funny how i chose him to be my personal dog rather then full blooded pit already on papers with puppies the same age...because i never personally seen dogs this gorgeous and big and hard working...and a full blood pitbull is a mutt! its a bulldog mix with a terrier!...u take a full blood pit and hit it with a full blood american bulldog then you basically get a massive pitbull...pitbulls come from bulldogs!..now a ****ing pitbull mix with a German Shepherd or something like that is what u call a mutt!lol..all im asking is somewhere down the line..an american bulldog mite have came in the mix which could be the reason why they are so big


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## ccalvin901 (Apr 23, 2012)

tainted said:


> the sire definitely looks more american bulldog-ish to me than apbt. Dam looks like your typical pit bull mix. Without papers from a reputable registry, you'll never know for sure exactly what's behind the pups lineage.


thanks thats all i was asking...the breeder i got him from is not a breeder looking for profit..he has a lot of personal pitts...he selects the mates just to get 1 or 2 puppies for himself and sells the rest...the litter size is always 10 strong..i was just thinking that maybe he doesnt realize that if these dogs are really full pit like he suspect they are then he basically could have had his own bloodline..but somewhere deep in the past before he began breeding them that there maybe was a hit of american bulldog...because these dogs are 100+pounds and even the mother is taller then most male pitts


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## sablegsd (Jan 24, 2010)

ccalvin901 said:


> Let me brake it all the way down. The person i got the pup from is not a breeder looking to make money. He has a lot of bad ass pitbulls and he simply has them because he loves the dogs. He hasnt tried registering any of his big boys because he simply is not looking to make money..he just keep them fed, socialized, trained, and "big"..i dont care if the dog is mixed or not because i know for a fact how he will turn out..i am just curious that maybe he actually has american bulldog and not pitbull but doesnt know...and breeding mother and son is perfectly fine...that is how you produce tri-color pitbulls because both carry the same recessive gene....breeding brother and sister from the same litter is were the problem is and this is not the case...


Yeah, your "breeder" is doing it for the money. And not doing it very well. Those dogs are sadly lacking in many areas. How much did you pay? Exactly what do these bad ass dogs work so splendidly at?


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## groomerwantabe (Apr 10, 2008)

ok I will not even get in to the details like other and say this.Most Pit are small than the American,even a big pit is going to be small than a American.(the one I have seen and their are a lot of both were i live) You should be able to tell if he is more American because he should be bigger than you pits.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

ccalvin901 said:


> thanks thats all i was asking...the breeder i got him from is not a breeder looking for profit..he has a lot of personal pitts...he selects the mates just to get 1 or 2 puppies for himself and sells the rest...the litter size is always 10 strong..i was just thinking that maybe he doesnt realize that if these dogs are really full pit like he suspect they are then he basically could have had his own bloodline..but somewhere deep in the past before he began breeding them that there maybe was a hit of american bulldog...because these dogs are 100+pounds and even the mother is taller then most male pitts


So what type of checks does this breeder do to know that he isn't selling his dogs for dog fighting? What type of checks do you plan to do with this litter you have at home to make sure the dogs are going to responsible homes instead of dog fighting or homes that expect them to be guard dogs? Do you plan to breed this dog also? 

The APBT is a breed, like many breeds today, other breeds contributed to creating it. The AKC registers the American Staffordshire Terrier and the UKC registers the APBT. 

The UKC breed standard for weight is:
"HEIGHT AND WEIGHT

The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of weight to height. Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds. Dogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy.

*Very Serious Fault: Excessively large or overly massive dogs.*"

that said, 

It doesn't matter in the least what this dog's lineage is unless you plan to breed it and try to sell the dogs as a specific type. And before you do that, take a trip down to a high kill city shelter and watch them put to sleep "pit bull" after "pit bull"; maybe see some of the dogs confiscated from dog fighting rings and see the physical and mental damage done to them. Then picture the pups that you are breeding ending up there and the dogs that this very irresponsible backyard breeder is producing ending up there.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

This whole thread is ridiculous.


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## jenz (Aug 20, 2010)

If you're that concerned about lineage, why don't you buy a DNA test? They cost about $50 and might help settle your concerns. You can get them at your vet's office or online.



> It doesn't matter in the least what this dog's lineage is unless you plan to breed it and try to sell the dogs as a specific type. And before you do that, take a trip down to a high kill city shelter and watch them put to sleep "pit bull" after "pit bull"; maybe see some of the dogs confiscated from dog fighting rings and see the physical and mental damage done to them.


I agree--shelters are overflowing with homeless pit bulls and pit mixes... why in the world are people breeding more?? It's so disheartening.



> regardless i know for sure this dog will turn out bad ass


Why don't you shoot for having your Pit (or Pit/AmBulldog, whatever) turn out to be a well-trained, well-mannered responsible canine citizen? There's enough Breed Specific Legislation going around that we don't need more hotshots with their "bad ass" Pit Bulls. Sigh.

Jen


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

yep this is great, guy breeding tons of bullys for no reason... guy buying dog because its "bad ass".... ugh.... wow.... sometimes i wish you had to have an IQ test before being granted a dog, never the less a bully breed.

nice "breeder" you have there btw. inbreeding and THINKING he knows about genetics, pups have worms, and are being taken at 5 wks.... never the less the mom and pups are sitting in what looks like a doG for saken CLOSET with a WOOD floor in the DARK.


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