# My dog's coat on a raw diet



## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi everyone,
I feed my shih-tzu x bichon mutt Nature's Variety frozen raw diet. I alternate between the lamb, chicken and beef (they are the only meats available in the chubs). Before NV, I fed her Healthy Paws which is a company out of Toronto. All in all, she's been on raw for a little more than 2 years. Prior to that, I was feeding her Canine Life which is a pre-mix to which I added meat, veggies and fruit and baked it into muffins. 

Sorry for the long preface but my question is, why is my dog's coat so dry? Being a mutt, her coat is usually curly but not as kinky as a purebred bichon's coat would be. But it's usually lush and looks 'conditioned' if you know what I mean. Ever since she's been on raw, it looks dry, as if it's been overwashed or overprocessed. It's still thick and if I brush it, it's soft. It's still pretty soft without brushing but it's nothing like before. I used to have to add omega 3 to the muffins but it's in the pre-made raw so I haven't been adding any. She only gets bathed every 4 or 5 months at the groomers so it's not like I'm overbathing her. 

I've heard that dogs who are raw-fed usually don't have a really shiny coat. Is this true? I don't have time or space to feed her the 'homemade' raw diet. Would a homemade raw diet make her coat better? I'm a little neurotic; I don't like seeing people with overprocessed hair so I'm kind of irked at my dog's coat. Weird yes but I'm more concerned if I'm not feeding her something I should and is her coat a sign that she's missing something.

Thank you in advance for your help..your sage advice is much appreciated.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I don't have any experience with feeding raw and I haven't done much research on the premade brands available because I can't afford them, but the first thing that comes to mind is fat content. I would imagine a diet that was very lean might cause coat problems. How much fat is in what you're feeding right now?


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Have you tried adding fish oil to her food? I'm not expert on why your dog's coat may be dry, but I know fish out does WONDERS to skin and coat.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

i have no experience with the premade raw medallions...i feed my dogs a raw diet which is comprised of meat, edible bone, fat and fish.

they get chicken, goat, beef, rabbit, mackerel, sardines, eggs, venison, beef heart...in other words, as many parts of an animal as i can get my hands on and as many animals as i can feed. i also feed them size appropriate liver and kidney which act as vitamins....i feed fish for the omega threes....

and this is what their coats look like. i will almost guarentee that it's cheaper for me to feed my dogs raw from my co op and grocery store than it is comparatively to feed the pre made.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

Loki's coat is ridiculously soft and velvety since being on raw. We've only been on raw since December.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

i don't know why people think it's so expensive. i shop sales for my own family and won't go over a certain dollar amount, unless we're treating ourselves to something.

certainly the dogs don't eat filet mignon.

best meat for a dog is fatty and tough....works their teeth....

there are asian markets....where you can buy three frozen sardines for three dollars...that's a dollar a sardine....best stuff in the world for omega three.

chicken is always on sale...

pork is always on sale.

i realise not every is lucky enough to have a co op that gets all kinds of product, but dogs don't need all kinds of product...

just chicken, turkey, pork, beef, fish, and organs...will do it...anything else is a bonus.

and, once the dog is transitioned....takes no time at all.

for me to feed my dogs and i have lots of choices.....takes five minutes from opening the fridge to finishing the cleanup.

this morning, they both got mackerel and chicken frame.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> i don't know why people think it's so expensive. i shop sales for my own family and won't go over a certain dollar amount, unless we're treating ourselves to something.
> 
> certainly the dogs don't eat filet mignon.
> 
> ...


I agree. Its costs me about as much to feed my 4 a month as it would if i was feeding nasty grocery store dog food.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

http://www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/dog/chicken
This food is only 18% fat by dry weight. High for a kibble, low for a raw diet. [100%-68% water=32% dry weight, 6% fat/32=18% fat by dry weight]
Comparing it to what Max needs it is very low in zinc, thiamine, potassium, magnesium, copper and even manganese. Max would eat about 10 ounces or about 1/3 of a kilogram a day of this food. I am sure it is fine according to AAFCO but definitely not to NRC levels which is what I try for. For instance there is 1.6 mg of copper in a kilogram of it. Max needs 1.6 mg of copper a day and this food would give him only 1/3 of his need.

Guess it is a good thing I cannot afford the stuff after all! Max always had pretty bad hair with undercoat that grows longer than his guard hairs, it doesn't fall out on its own and turns reddish. When he was on kibble it was sort of sticky and dry, now it is lush and silky. Even under moonlight he looks like a broken mirror with black velvet shadows and gleaming reflections from the moon light. 

I analyze Max's prey model raw diet best I can and he has been a bit low in magnesium, manganese and zinc. I supplement those and his coat is noticeably softer, thicker and longer. He only gets 1.5% his actual weight a day which is lower than many dogs need, if fed 2% those numbers would be just fine. He eats various cuts of chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, ostrich, emu, pork, sardine, rabbit, venison as 80% meat wrapped around 10% bone with about 10% organs. Generally he gets 55-60 grams of protein a day and about 35- 40 grams of fat that comes to about 600 calories a day.

I would be fine if he only got chicken for bone, some meat and organ, pork for some bone, meat and organ and beef mostly for meat and organ along with either fresh fatty fish or fish oil. His usual 20 pounds a month food fit on part of a top shelf in my good sized refrigerator's freezer for over a year. I could find a good enough sale, buy the meats and pack up a month's worth of little bags in an hour making quite the mess in the kitchen with all the bowls, knife and cutting board action.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you for all your replies! I don't have concerns about money- well, let me qualify that-I'm nit rich but obviously willing to spend money for quality food as premade raw is expensive. I'm not sure I could get such variety of meats as you do. I guess my concern is that I would screw it uo and then kiri would be worse off.

Magicre, your dogs look amazing. I guess I have been doing her a disservice. I wish there were petdonal dog chefs. Well I will be doing more research rspecially on the NRC standards.

Another question, Kiri is 20 lbs (should be 17 but ive been lazy). If I were to feed her a prry model diet, how much meat, bone and how much organ and muscle meat do I buy per month? Is there a certain amount of organ meat and muscle meat that is ideal? Or does it matter if I feed mostly organs or mostly muscle? Sorry for the stupid questions but Im willing to do this if it will be better for kiri. Its not really the money; it's more an issue of where to get the meat and how to feed it.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

You need 2-3% of your dogs idea weight a day so 0.34lbs for your dog.

80% muscle meat
10% bone
10% organ

My dog diet is mostly chicken and turkey.
A little bit of pork maybe once a week at the most
Fish once a week at the most (more when its cheap)
Beef never.

This is a great website:
http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/


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## Asmallette (Aug 20, 2011)

I have my dog on half raw and half kibble. Her coat used to be dandruffy and dull. I started giving her a raw egg a day. I used farm eggs but I think ones from the store would be the same I'd wash them first though. Anyways she eats the whole egg shell and all. I give it to her outside because she plays with it like a ball and cracks it herself. Eggs made a huge difference in her coat. Hope that helps!


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

To the OP who started this thread back in April....I hope you got your baby's skin/hair issues figured out!




Asmallette said:


> I have my dog on half raw and half kibble. Her coat used to be dandruffy and dull. I started giving her a raw egg a day. I used farm eggs but I think ones from the store would be the same I'd wash them first though. Anyways she eats the whole egg shell and all. I give it to her outside because she plays with it like a ball and cracks it herself. Eggs made a huge difference in her coat. Hope that helps!


Why bother with the kra..kibble??

Your dog would VERY much so benefit from a full raw diet(at least one of the Prey Model variety!) Muscle meat(including fat), edible bone, organs and fish(of the proper amounts) are THE BEST thing that you can give your dog(s) for food! That is what their body needs and the ONLY way for them to be as healthy as nature intended!


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## Asmallette (Aug 20, 2011)

abi88 said:


> To the OP who started this thread back in April....I hope you got your baby's skin/hair issues figured out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had her on all raw but she's still a pup and wasn't gaining enough weight and my vet told me to give her some puppy food too, so the kibble is more of an extra plumper 

Once she's full grown I'll switch back to only raw.


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

Asmallette said:


> I had her on all raw but she's still a pup and wasn't gaining enough weight and *my vet told me to give her some puppy food too, so the kibble is more of an extra plumper *
> 
> Once she's full grown I'll switch back to only raw.


Of course the vet told you that....that is what they are told to say! (Most, VERY close to all, vets know NOTHING about nutrition and are "trained", ie. brain washed, by the NASTY big krapple companies!) You DO understand that anything in kibble that is causing her to "plump" up is NOT healthy for her, yes? You can add weight to dogs by properly upping the amount that you feed on a raw diet, and what you are adding to their bodies is then ALL NATURAL! (btw, what kibble do you have her on? How old is she? What is her breed/weight?)


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## Asmallette (Aug 20, 2011)

abi88 said:


> Of course the vet told you that....that is what they are told to say! (Most, VERY close to all, vets know NOTHING about nutrition and are "trained", ie. brain washed, by the NASTY big krapple companies!) You DO understand that anything in kibble that is causing her to "plump" up is NOT healthy for her, yes? You can add weight to dogs by properly upping the amount that you feed on a raw diet, and what you are adding to their bodies is then ALL NATURAL! (btw, what kibble do you have her on? How old is she? What is her breed/weight?)


I have her on Origen, she's a rott/lab, 8 or 9 months ( I found her so approx age she was only 5lbs when I found her in Jan so not too sure her age) and she's 50lbs.


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## Sparrow (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah, my vet actually came out to my HOUSE because we stopped spending money with them. They've been trying to cram Science Diet down our throats for years. So he took a look at my dogs coat's & asked what we were doing. No fooling, I had a dog with a skin problem & he was so glossy he looked blue in the sun (had a black coat) & it wasn't special shampoo. My grandma used to joke that she would dip a feather in his coat & write a letter. He looked wet he was so glossy.

I would find your dog some fattier meat. The cheap fatty hamburger that would be too greasy for a human's good health is very good to the dog. As others said, I would look into sardines. I've never seen a dog on a raw diet that had a dry coat except when something's being missed. Course, then again, no one I know that feeds a raw diet it buys it pre-made. I'm thinking they're missing something in what you're buying that your dog need.


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

Asmallette said:


> I have her on Origen, she's a rott/lab, 8 or 9 months ( I found her so approx age she was only 5lbs when I found her in Jan so not too sure her age) and she's 50lbs.


Well although Orijen is a "high quality" kibble, it STILL has LOTS of ingredients that are not appropriate for our pet carnivores!

I would HIGHLY suggest putting her onto a PMR diet, and work her up to getting a lot of red meats(of course that is going to take a couple months for her to get accustomed to "lighter" meats first) but meats like heart, beef, etc are GREAT for gaining weight!!!


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## Porphyria (Jul 18, 2011)

When my dog was on PMR his coat was dull and his skin was dry and itchy. It was so bad I actually thought he might have mange. Everything I did to try and improve his skin and coat (more fat, fish oil, etc.) gave him loose stool. No matter how much I tweaked the amounts I couldn't find the right balance, so I put him on kibble and he has been doing very well. Not all dogs respond well to raw.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

Porphyria said:


> When my dog was on PMR his coat was dull and his skin was dry and itchy. It was so bad I actually thought he might have mange. Everything I did to try and improve his skin and coat (more fat, fish oil, etc.) gave him loose stool. No matter how much I tweaked the amounts I couldn't find the right balance, so I put him on kibble and he has been doing very well. Not all dogs respond well to raw.


How long was your dog on PMR before you switched back to kibble?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't know what or how much you were feeding but it is easy to have too much iron that binds zinc in a raw diet. If too much bone is eaten the excessive calcium binds with zinc so there is even less zinc available. 

I really consider this important, here is a newsletter from Monica Segal about this.
http://monicasegal.com/newsletters/2006-11NL.php

Max gets just a bit of zinc supplement a couple times a week as he only gets 1.5% of his body weight and so doesn't get quite enough zinc. Probably not necessary as his issues seemed to be more related to needing more fat and protein than less than perfect zinc delivery and he is certainly getting nice fat and protein now.


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## Porphyria (Jul 18, 2011)

Loki Love said:


> How long was your dog on PMR before you switched back to kibble?


My breeder feeds PMR and weaned the puppies onto it from their mother's milk, so I think it's really unlikely it was a transition issue. His coat was very dry when I got him, and he remained that way the entire time he was on raw. He was three months old when I got him and I kept him on raw for about two months after that.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

katielou said:


> Fish once a week at the most (more when its cheap)
> Beef never.


May I ask why you don't feed beef?


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> May I ask why you don't feed beef?


Abe doesn't do well on beef muscle meat (except heart). He is very sensitive to it.
They actually eat probably a lot more pork and fish then i said in my OP.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

Although it's an older thread and I've no idea if the OP has returned, if the (small) dog is really three pounds overweight, that could certainly be contributing to the poor coat issue.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

grab said:


> Although it's an older thread and I've no idea if the OP has returned, if the (small) dog is really three pounds overweight, that could certainly be contributing to the poor coat issue.


Thanks grab! I'm working on her weight. She is no longer on raw as she may have a liver issue so I have changed her to a bomecooked diet. Her coat seems to be better now but not as curly. Thanks for replying. She has 1.5 pounds to go.


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