# What to use on herding breed now that Interceptor is gone



## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

Ugh....Can anyone with a herding breed tell me what you are giving your dog for heartworm now that Interceptor is not being made anymore?? The only options I've been given are Advantix II for fleas and ticks with no heartworm meds or Revolution or Trifexis for fleas and heartworms and the new tick collar for the ticks. I am not comfortable using the new tick collar, because we handle my dog ALOT and she goes in my daughter's bed. I don't want that stuff rubbing off. At this point, I think I may just skip the heartworm preventative and just have her tested yearly until the start the Interceptor again.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I would definitely go with Trifexis or Revolution. Heartworms are a whole lot more harmful to your dog than an occasional tick. Btw, you should have your dog tested for heartworm yearly even when she's on preventative in case the preventative failed. My vet won't even prescribe heartworm meds (I buy a year's supply at once) without first having her tested. The meds can be harmful if given to a dog who is already HW positive without your knowledge.


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## PrincessLPN (May 25, 2012)

We use Revolution and Advantage Plus. Is that a good alternative?


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

Princess, I think you would be doubling up on the flea meds?


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

1. You can have your dog tested for the MDR gene, which is the gene that causes problems with Heartgard in herding breeds. They don't all carry this gene, so your pup might be OK on Heartgard.

2. Definitely don't prioritize tick prevention over heartworm prevention (not to mention the other intestinal worms that the heartworm meds prevent). Ticks are gross but heartworm is really horrible (and the drugs to treat it are in a shortage). If it comes down to it, I would do Trifexis and either check for ticks daily, or Frontline (doubling up on anti-flea) if you know you're going to be in a heavy-tick situation. This is likely what we will end up doing. Not so bad for the short run. 

3. I consulted the internet and it sounds like Interceptor is being produced again (i.e. the factory is reopened) and apparently will be back on the market in August. Maybe you can beg your vet for a couple of months' worth, or call around? Vets in my area were saving their stock for dogs with sensitivities.

BTW, I'm not sure that Revolution is OK for dogs with MDR. You would want to ask your vet about that.


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

I am VERY uncomfortable using Trifexis. First off, the idea of an oral pesticide just doesn't sound safe to me. Plus, it's just too new. I've also read reviews that said it is not very good. None of the vets around here have it at all. One vet says they will not give me Iverhart because my dog has collie in her. Another says it is perfectly safe in recommended dosage. What the heck??? I know MANY dogs that have had ticks on them in my area. There are also quite a few coming down with Lyme's disease. I truly don't know what to do.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Just as a clarification. 

ALL dogs have the MDR1 gene, it's dogs who have a mutated copy of this gene that have problems with specific medications.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

reneegavin said:


> I am VERY uncomfortable using Trifexis. First off, the idea of an oral pesticide just doesn't sound safe to me. Plus, it's just too new. I've also read reviews that said it is not very good. None of the vets around here have it at all. One vet says they will not give me Iverhart because my dog has collie in her. Another says it is perfectly safe in recommended dosage. What the heck??? I know MANY dogs that have had ticks on them in my area. There are also quite a few coming down with Lyme's disease. I truly don't know what to do.


First off, Revolution is also an "oral pesticide." The only difference is which anti-heartworm drug it uses. I've heard good things about Trifexis, but it is sort of expensive. I would not listen to reviews, honestly. It's not actually "new," either. The combination is new, but the component drugs are obviously not. It's a combo of Interceptor and Comfortis, both of which have been around for years.

If you're worried about Lyme, there is a vaccine for that. Better than nothing. 

Have you asked your vets about testing for the MDR1 mutation? If you're that worried, it might be worth it. It sounds like your vets might be unaware of the possibility? There is some disagreement about what drugs are safe for dogs with the mutation. Some vets even say Interceptor is not safe. 

Also, what is your general location? I know heartworms are much more prevalent in some areas, but I cannot imagine a vet in my area ever recommending against using heartworm preventative. Have you read up on heartworm? I would rather pick ticks off my dog every day of my life than risk putting her through that.


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

My collie is MDR1 mutant/mutant. I gave her first dose of trifexis this past month and didn't have any problems with it.


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

So if I have my dog tested for the MDR1 mutant gene, and she doesn't have it, it would be safe to give her Ivermectin? My vet told me that Revolution was a topical. I didn't realize that was also oral. We live in NE Pennsylvania. I've had one vet say that heartworm is quite uncommon here, and many people just get their dogs tested yearly. My dog reacts badly to the Advantix II now. She squirms and itches for days after having it applied. She is a dog that will let us do ANYTHING to her, but we have to take her to a groomer to have that applied. It was the same with Frontline. I've heard Revolution is gentler, but again, it doesn't include ticks.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Revolution is topical, not oral. On the package it now claims to kill dog ticks, and in my research I found that it very likely works against other ticks, too. But their approval process is different than the process for other products (it's considered a drug instead of a pesticide) so they can't say it. I don't know HOW well it works against ticks, but probably at least as well as Frontline. . .which has never worked very well against ticks, IME. There is some concern with using Selamectin on dogs with the mutant gene, though.

The active flea-killing ingredient in Comfortis/Trifectis isn't really a pesticide (well, OK, anything that kills pests is technically a pesticide), look it up; the way it works is really very interesting.


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

The test is real easy. You take a cheek swab and send it off to the University of Washington. You can have a dog that is normal/normal which has no reaction to medications, normal/mutant which I think it is dosage related to the meds, and my girl who is mutant/mutant and can't have them what so ever. It was good to find out because she also can't have immodium or flagyl/metronidazole both of which are used for diarrhea.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

My bad, yes Revolution is topical not oral. I just meant that the drugs are very similar and from a drug reaction standpoint, I believe it doesn't matter whether the drug enters the bloodstream through the skin or otherwise. (If I'm wrong about that, someone please correct me)


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

Did you order the test online?


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

Yes, here is the link.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/test.aspx


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I have also had two of my dogs tested. It's great piece of mind.


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## lauren17 (Apr 14, 2009)

I use Trifexis for fleas and heartworm and Frontline for fleas and ticks on my herding breed dog. Yes it doubles up on the fleas but I've found that Trifexis doesnt last the entire month for the fleas and because the ticks are so bad in my area he really needs the tick preventative. I only do this in the summer and then just give the Trifexis the rest of the year.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Norvatis will be releasing Sentinel soon according to what my office manager (told to her by the reps from the company.) Something about the fact that Sentinel was not produced in the same plant as Interceptor. I have used both interceptor and comfortis together they are the same meds that are in trifexis it's just the cost is so high. Plus the ticks are extremely bad this year as we had no winter. Both of my dogs were tested for the MDR1 mutation. One is normal one is not. It is great information as there are other medications that can cause problems in a dog with the mutant gene.


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

Is everyone sure that this online test is reliable? My dog is due for her heartworm preventative in 2 days, so I know the test will not even be here, much less tested by then. One thing I've read in my research is that many vets say the amount of ivermectin in the canine preventative is too low to cause issues. I did give her Iverhart last month, because my previous vet told me it was safe. I'm thinking that since I'm down to the wire here, I might have to do it for one more month.....or do you think it would be safer to just order the test and wait for the results, skipping a month?

As far as Trifexis, since it doesn't repel or kill eggs, can't you still end up with the fleas and their eggs in your home?


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

reneegavin said:


> I did give her Iverhart last month, because my previous vet told me it was safe. I'm thinking that since I'm down to the wire here, I might have to do it for one more month.....


I'm wondering about this too. Biscuit is a muttsky, but clearly with some herder in her, likely Sheltie. We've had her on Interceptor because the vet said it was a safer bet in light of her white feet, and we never bothered to do the DNA test because we like Interceptor and it didn't seem worth the trouble. But the rescue gave her Heartgard right before we got her (same ingredient as Iverhart) - and she was fine. If a dog does OK with one dose of Ivermectin, does that mean they're likely not sensitive? Or can the problems turn up later? 

As for Trifexis and fleas, my understanding is that a)fleas need a host to breed and b)Trifexis kills the fleas on your dog before they have time to lay eggs.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

You can use ivermectin based heartworm preventatives even in MDR1 mutant dogs. It is the higher doses used to treat mites that are the problem, the doses used to prevent heartworm disease are very low and generally safe.

Here for more info, scroll down to "ivermectin": http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/drugs.aspx

Interestingly, pretty much ALL of the heartworm preventatives, even the ones with a reputation of being "safe" for MDR1 mutants, are on the list of drugs of concern with the same caveat - at the doses used for heartworm preventative, they are safe, at higher doses they are not. Not sure why ivermectin keeps getting singled out. *shrug*


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

One small dose won't cause symptoms in a sensitive dog. Some vets think the very small amount of ivermectin use for heartworm prevention won't hurt even if given monthly, which is probably true. But the problem is that a dog with the mutant gene removes the substance from their body very slowly. So toxic levels can build up. It's a cumulative thing, unless a very large dose is given all at once.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Willowy said:


> But the problem is that a dog with the mutant gene removes the substance from their body very slowly. So toxic levels can build up. It's a cumulative thing, unless a very large dose is given all at once.


The biggest problem is actually that dogs with a mutant MDR1 gene can't limit absorption and distribution of the drugs to the brain so drugs that normally wouldn't reach the brain directly, can. There is some delay of excreting the drugs from the body, but when you are talking about giving a drug once a month that's normally excreted within 24-48 hours, it's not going to be a significant concern.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

I didn't feel comfortable doubling up on flea meds and wanted to keep tick preventative so I swapped to heartguard from interceptor and kept using frontline. Just got a 6 month supply back in May so hopefully we'll have no issues getting interceptor again in November when the heartguard runs out.


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## beardiedawg (Apr 16, 2012)

I wouldn't be concerned with the amount of ivermectin in heartworm meds if I had a normal/mutant dog but since Kona is mutant/mutant I will not take the chance.

I got the results back from the test within two weeks. They run the test in batches so depending on when you mail the sample to them, depends on when they run it. They then e-mailed me the results which cut down on the delay.


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## melundie (Aug 2, 2011)

sassafras said:


> You can use ivermectin based heartworm preventatives even in MDR1 mutant dogs. It is the higher doses used to treat mites that are the problem, the doses used to prevent heartworm disease are very low and generally safe.



This, exactly. Luckily we were able to get interceptor for Ace for treatment of his demodicosis and I have 4 more packs on "hold" at the vet. When we were unable to get it, we did give the dogs Heartguard and never had a problem.


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

SOme of you are giving the Ivermectin without issue then? Again, I did give her one dose, so I wonder if it would be safe to give her the Iverhart until they start up with the Interceptor. I've had 3 people (1 vet, 1 groomer, and 1 rescue) tell me that ticks are a much more prevalent problem in our area than heartworm. UGH! So many conflicting opinions! I just don't want to hurt my pup.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

reneegavin said:


> Is everyone sure that this online test is reliable?


Yes the test is very reliable and reputable, it has been a test done by breeders all over the USA for many years.


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

I just ordered the testing kit. I think I'm going to skip this month's treatment until I get the results of that test. If everything's fine, I will have her tested for heartworm (even though she'll only miss a month), and either start up again on the Iverhart or be back at square 1!


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

reneegavin said:


> I've had 3 people (1 vet, 1 groomer, and 1 rescue) tell me that ticks are a much more prevalent problem in our area than heartworm. UGH! So many conflicting opinions! I just don't want to hurt my pup.


*It only takes 1 Bite from an infected mosquito.* It is very important to use some form of HW prevention med. In HW prevention products that use Ivermectin , the amount of Ivermectin is in micrograms (mcg) , and , this low dose will not harm dogs that may be sensitive to the Ivermectin at higher doses.

oldhounddog


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

oldhounddog said:


> *It only takes 1 Bite from an infected mosquito.* It is very important to use some form of HW prevention med. In HW prevention products that use Ivermectin , the amount of Ivermectin is in micrograms (mcg) , and , this low dose will not harm dogs that may be sensitive to the Ivermectin at higher doses.
> 
> oldhounddog


Yeah, I would use an Ivermectin product for this month since she's been OK with it in the past. Heartworm is a horrible disease and also very expensive to treat (and the main treatment is in severe shortage) and I have heard that this year is going to be especially bad due to the mild winter - it was so warm that mosquitoes got a head start. Although it's likely less prevalent in NE PA than in, say, Florida, it's still certainly there. If you have mosquitoes, you have heartworm. It would be different if it was the wintertime.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Revolution does kill ticks--I found a study once (can't remember where now) that shows that Revolution kills a whole host of tick species, but the company which makes it only tested it on the BROWN dog tick so that's the only claim against ticks it can make. However, in daily use, Revolution does kill all sorts of ticks, it just takes a bit longer than other tick medications like Advantix. Frontline is HORRIBLE at killing ticks--might be even worse than Revolution around here. Sometimes I find ticks on my dogs that are already half dead and they are on Revolution. Takes about 2-3 days for the ticks to die off completely.


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

So when giving the Ivermectin, would you suggest waiting a little longer than the 30 days to give it....say 5 or 6 weeks instead? Also, would it even be worth testing her for the mutant gene, if the low levels in meds are safe??


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## reneegavin (Jun 25, 2012)

lucidity said:


> Revolution does kill ticks--I found a study once (can't remember where now) that shows that Revolution kills a whole host of tick species, but the company which makes it only tested it on the BROWN dog tick so that's the only claim against ticks it can make.


 The vet told me that it is ok in areas where there are not many ticks, but being that we are in high risk area, it wouldn't be enough.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Someone else will have to answer regarding timing. I would recommend doing the test anyway if you think your dog might have the mutant gene, if you can afford the expense, because (as others have noticed), the gene affects a whole host of medications, not just the heartworm drugs.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

reneegavin said:


> The vet told me that it is ok in areas where there are not many ticks, but being that we are in high risk area, it wouldn't be enough.


Oh trust me, where I live, we probably have 2x as many ticks as you do!! Tropical, rainforesty Asia. I pick ticks off my dogs on a daily basis. Nothing really keeps em 100% away. Not even Advantix. Revolution does its job fine if you check the dogs for ticks regularly. Just pick off whatever you find after a walk outdoors and the ones you miss will die off in 2 days anyway.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Pateast (Jun 13, 2017)

I wish I had ordered the test for the MDR1 mutation. We gave our beautiful Aussie her first dose of Sentinel when she was around 3 months old. Two days later she was circuling, showing signs of neurological problems. We carried her to the emergency vet hospital. After several hours of testing for something she might have ingested, They called the Sentinel hot line, was told to start her on lipids and charcoal. She almost died. When we left the hospital, she was blind. We have not had her tested yet, it's too late. The vet at Verbac, the company that owns Sentinel, told us that Sentinel was safe dogs with the gene mutation. There is more to the story, but I will never give a dog any pesticide. This is poison.


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

Five year old thread.....

Sentinel does not contain ivermectin.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Pateast said:


> I wish I had ordered the test for the MDR1 mutation. We gave our beautiful Aussie her first dose of Sentinel when she was around 3 months old. Two days later she was circuling, showing signs of neurological problems. We carried her to the emergency vet hospital. After several hours of testing for something she might have ingested, They called the Sentinel hot line, was told to start her on lipids and charcoal. She almost died. When we left the hospital, she was blind. We have not had her tested yet, it's too late. The vet at Verbac, the company that owns Sentinel, told us that Sentinel was safe dogs with the gene mutation. There is more to the story, but I will never give a dog any pesticide. This is poison.


Other vets, not just ones associated with the drug company, will also tell you that Sentinel is safe to use as a heartworm preventative in dogs with the MDR1 mutation.

You have no idea what caused that reaction, other than she got the medication before the reaction occurred. Did you know that the number of pirates on the high seas started to decline just before we started measuring global increases in average annual temperatures? Clearly the decrease in piracy is causing global warming.

Ridiculous claim? Sure. But there's as much evidence for that as there is for yours. (Which is to say almost none).

If you haven't even had your dog tested for MDR1 (which is still worth doing, by the way; not all adverse drug reactions are caused by gene mutations, and if she IS MDR1 that's information that you'd want to know), you have no substantive basis to claim that the drug isn't safe for MDR1 dogs, or even that Sentinel was responsible and it wasn't caused by some other environmental exposure, an underlying congenital problem that hadn't surfaced yet.... etc. 

Fear mongering doesn't help anyone, and keeping your dog off of proven heartworm preventatives doesn't help anyone except the heartworms that she (and other dogs who read your scary story and then take their dogs off proven heartworm preventatives) might develop.



LeoRose said:


> Five year old thread.....
> 
> Sentinel does not contain ivermectin.


No, but it does contain milbemycin, which is also on the MRD1 problem drugs list (and is also generally recognized as safe at doses used to prevent heartworm).


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

gingerkid said:


> No, but it does contain milbemycin, which is also on the MRD1 problem drugs list (and is also generally recognized as safe at doses used to prevent heartworm).


Ah. I knew it could cause problems with some cancer treatment drugs, but ivermectin was the only heartworm preventative I'd heard mentioned in relation to it. I've never tested my GSD, but she's taken an ivermectin based preventative since she was a puppy, and has had no problems.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

gingerkid said:


> Other vets, not just ones associated with the drug company, will also tell you that Sentinel is safe to use as a heartworm preventative in dogs with the MDR1 mutation.
> 
> You have no idea what caused that reaction, other than she got the medication before the reaction occurred. Did you know that the number of pirates on the high seas started to decline just before we started measuring global increases in average annual temperatures? Clearly the decrease in piracy is causing global warming.
> 
> ...



I thought that the decrease in piracy was caused by global warming; you know, like, if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen? Only "kitchen" being replaced by "piracy" 

At least its an inversely proportional relationship, wouldn't want to see piracy on the rise too much

Interceptor-- Milbemycin Oxime, 2.3 mg for the 2-10 lbs dog dose

Sentinel-- Milbemycin Oxime, 2.3 mg for the 2-10 lbs dog dose. Lufenuron, 46 mg for the 2- 10 lbs dog dose.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

LeoRose said:


> Ah. I knew it could cause problems with some cancer treatment drugs, but ivermectin was the only heartworm preventative I'd heard mentioned in relation to it. I've never tested my GSD, but she's taken an ivermectin based preventative since she was a puppy, and has had no problems.


Ivermectin seems to be the only drug period that's ever mentioned in relation to MDR1, at least in common discourse (forums, non-medical blogs, social media, etc.).


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Shell said:


> I thought that the decrease in piracy was caused by global warming; you know, like, if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen? Only "kitchen" being replaced by "piracy"
> 
> At least its an inversely proportional relationship, wouldn't want to see piracy on the rise too much.


Hm, in that case, maybe global warming is actually a good thing? but I digress....


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