# newbie & looking for pet dog



## richard88

Newbie here and still searching for a pet dog. Looking for breed of Golden Retriever or Lab or Corgi or West Highland White Terrier. :flypig:
Want to ask around if anyone knows if the following website is legit : 

https://www.petzlover.com/
https://www.nextdaypets.com/

We're in Dallas, TX and if anyone knows of good breeders, please let me know. Thanks ! :wave:


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## DaySleepers

Neither, I'm afraid. Almost any website designed to sell massive amounts of puppies is going to be populated by 99.99% puppy millers and irresponsible breeders who don't care if they're breeding puppies with poor temperaments, or prone to serious illnesses or physical issues. Often the parents are kept in terrible conditions and the puppies are given very little in terms of socialization and foundational training. 

A better idea would be to reach out to the breed clubs of the breeds you're interested in. Breeders who are members of these clubs are much more likely to be ethical and responsible, though you still want to research them and be sure they're producing dogs you like with good health and stable temperaments. 

What traits are you looking for in a dog? Labs and Goldens are quite different in temperament than Corgies or Westies!


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## Francl27

First, ask yourself what you really want in a dog, because those breeds are very different.

Second, do NOT shop for a dog online. They are puppy mill puppies, typically don't look or behave like the standard at all, and come with a lot of health/temperament issues (plus you encourage puppy mills when you buy from them). Yes, you'll pay more from a reputable breeder (and will often have to wait), but you'll save a LOT of money in the long run in vet costs (and training costs).

I also advise to look into the breed club of the breed you're interested in - they typically have a list of reputable breeders, or someone you can contact for one.

Finally, if you just want a dog and don't really care about a specific breed... check petfinder or your local shelter.


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## richard88

Thanks for the reply. We're more interested in GR and Labs than the others. Easy trainable & more quiet.
I just started researching on local breeders (google only 3 I can find) and so far they don't respond to my emails or calls. Some others shown waiting list. The local GR rescue even put a restriction on first time dog owner : http://www.goldenretrievers.org/faq/
Typically, does these local breeders or even those advert on online (e.g. petzlover.com) allow people to visit the dog first before committing to buy ? I don't get any replies back when I asked them this question. 
Hopefully I can get some referrals on good local breeders (dallas/north Texas) over here. Thanks.


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## Lillith

Yeah, those two websites you listed are crap. You couldn't pay me to purchase a puppy from them.

Typically, good, ethical breeders are not full time breeders. They have day jobs, they are not always checking their emails, and they are not constantly on their phones. And, since it is the holiday season I would expect them to be less responsive than normal, anyway. They have families, too, that they want to spend time with! You might have to wait a day or two (or a week) to get a response from them, which is why many people decide to go the puppy mill option, instead, because they get an instant response and have a puppy within a few days.

What questions are you asking the breeders you've contacted? If you start off with "How much are your puppies?" or "Can I come visit your dogs?" they're unlikely to take you seriously. You should be able to explain why you are interested in their breed, what your lifestyle is like, and how that dog would fit into your lifestyle. Keep it brief, of course, but at least demonstrate you've considered dog ownership, done some research, and are truly interested in attaining a well-bred, quality pet.

Yes, ethical breeders will allow you to visit with the mother dog, at least, and they should be able to tell you all about the father if he is not on-site. They should be able to provide a pedigree for both parents, titles earned, and an OFA health certificate. Not a simple vet health check, an OFA health certificate which is searchable online by the breeder's or dog's registered name. Getting a health history is very important for breeds like Goldens, especially, since they are so prone to cancer.

Puppy mill sites like petzlover.com might let you visit the mother dog (if, in fact, that is the real mother), but they often have a "front", meaning that they take the mother dog from their actual breeding facility and place her in someone's home for your visit so it looks like not-a-puppy-mill. In reality, they're probably shipping in puppies from all over the country, and they don't know who the parents actually are.

The quote "Good things come to those who wait" has never been more true than with getting a puppy! Yes, you may be placed on a waiting list for a year or more, but you can rest assured that when you finally get a puppy, the breeder has done his/her very best to select complimentary breeding stock in good health with excellent temperaments, and the breeder has chosen a puppy for you that best matches your needs and lifestyle.


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## dogblogger1

Or... rescue one! There are so many dogs in need of a good home


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## richard88

Thanks for the reply. 
Is there a section in this forum where breeders in local region can be referred ? 
I browsed through some postings in petzlover.com and a couple of them like you said allow viewing of mother dog and sometimes father and mother dog :
https://www.petzlover.com/us/golden-retriever-puppies-for-sale-in-elm-st-241333
https://www.petzlover.com/us/golden-retriever-puppies-for-sale-in-dallas-225473

Some of the postings seem so sincere....


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## richard88

I've registered with the local rescue too... but GR is hard to come by and they imposed some restriction on first time dog owner.


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## Francl27

Again... that is a horrible site to get a puppy.

I did a search for you and found a few reputable breeders in Texas (assuming you live there from your previous posts)

http://www.ghgrc.org/blist.html

Either way, you need to go to the official club page of the breed you're interested in, and look for the puppy pages... there is always a link to a list of reputable breeders somewhere. Do NOT buy puppies online!


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## Lillith

richard88 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> Is there a section in this forum where breeders in local region can be referred ?
> I browsed through some postings in petzlover.com and a couple of them like you said allow viewing of mother dog and sometimes father and mother dog :
> https://www.petzlover.com/us/golden-retriever-puppies-for-sale-in-elm-st-241333
> https://www.petzlover.com/us/golden-retriever-puppies-for-sale-in-dallas-225473
> 
> Some of the postings seem so sincere....


Dude...of course they do. They know how to sell. I mean, nobody can stop you from doing what you want, but your money will be supporting 1) A puppy mill, or 2) a backyard breeder who has taken no consideration of temperament or health and just put a boy dog and a girl dog together and hoped they would make puppies so they can sell them for some money.


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## richard88

Thanks ! Any good breeders in the Dallas region ?


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## Lillith

richard88 said:


> Thanks ! Any good breeders in the Dallas region ?


Do I personally know any good breeders in the Dallas region? No, but you can start your search at the breed's official club page: https://www.grca.org

I would meander around that site for a bit. It gives you a bunch of tips for selecting a breeder, and will likely have a list of breeders or some sort of referral program to help you find a puppy. Francl27 posted a link above, as well, that you should check out. You may have to expand your search beyond the Dallas region.


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## parus

richard88 said:


> Thanks for the reply. We're more interested in GR and Labs than the others. Easy trainable & more quiet.


I'm not anti-breeder (I'm actually about to get a pup myself) but Goldens and labs are notorious for being absolute crocodiles up to age 2. If you're looking for a calm housepet, I'd consider looking for an adult rehome or rescue from those breeds. I don't know how it is in Texas but up here labs and lab mixes are some of the most common dogs in the shelter and rescues. If you're not an experienced dog person, bring someone with you who can be a good judge of the dog's temperament.


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## richard88

by crocodiles, do you mean they would chew everything up or fierce or both ?


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## Super_Nova

I don’t have any experience with Goldens or Labs. But for my breed, the term is normally used to describe a mouthy dog.

Yes, one that will chew on everything. Shoes, pants, couch, hands, hair, anything that CAN go in the mouth, will. 

I don’t usually interpret it as meaning that they will be fierce/ornery, as this has a lot to do with temperament, and a puppy from a good breeder <I> should </i> have a good temperament.




richard88 said:


> by crocodiles, do you mean they would chew everything up or fierce or both ?


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## VultureHyena

Ooo new dog, fun! For a first time dog owner, I'd recommend looking at the adult dogs at your local rescue or pound. Puppies are A LOT of work-they will eat your house and use it all as their bathroom! With a rescue you can get an adult dog that is already trained, and you already know what you're going to get, whereas puppies all kind of have the same personality! Your breeds are are rather diverse (terrier, retriever and corgi all have different sizes and personalities, so you seem like you're not quite sure what you're looking for. 

Many people believe a rescue dog will be a lot of work because they are somehow abused or unwanted, but most of the time they end up at the shelter due to the owner's economic or housing troubles. 

As for picking out a dog, you can look online profiles of dogs at rescues or shelters. If you select a dog from a foster-based rescue, it is already living in a temporary home and you'll know the most information about its personality, and you can find dogs to adopt locally online- try websites like petfinder.com or petango.com. If you walk into a physical shelter, the best way to find the perfect dog for you is to tell the volunteer or shelter worker that you're a first time dog owner, (you can also think about how big you want your dog to be or how much time you'll have to exercise it) and ask what dog they'd recommend. You could also walk around the kennels and pick out a dog you have the best 'connection' with, but sometimes kennel behavior is misleading- a cage isn't a natural environment and sometimes the barkiest dogs inside are the calmest outside and vice-versa, so the best option is asking for a recommendation from someone who knows the dogs. Another added bonus to rescue dogs is that the adoption fee is much cheaper than purchasing a puppy from a good breeder- at most county pounds its around $25-90, and maybe $200 or so for private/no kill shelters, and that includes vaccine, license, microchip, and spay-neuter. 

At a shelter, you will get to take the dogs outside into a play yard or greeting room, where you can pet and play with the dogs, which even if you're not adopting that dog, will help you figure out what sort of personality is best for you. 

When I adopted my pit mix Bonnie, my family and asked a few volunteers what dog they'd recommend that would be medium energy, medium size and good with other dogs and kids- and they all said Bonnie! I was skeptical seeing her in her kennel; she had been there for five months and was so shut down she didn't want to come up to the front of the kennel. But I trusted the volunteers and when they brought her out on a leash, she was the sweetest dog ever! Out of the 200+ dogs at that pound, I'm convinced I picked the very best one! Knowing my GSD mix is picky about other dogs, and the shelter didn't allow dogs to meet before going home, I picked her partly because she was the dog they used to test if other dogs are friendly towards others. It also goes to show that there's sometimes surprises of what's expected for different breeds- pits are known for not getting along with other dogs very well, but she is rock-solid when interacting with any dog. She also came home already knowing how to sit, shake, stay, and being potty trained!

On top of the bonus of finding the perfect dog-owner match, there's the obvious benefit of knowing you saved a life (even if they're from a no-kill or low-kill shelter, adopting helps free up kennel space and help rescues run, and therefore tackling pet overpopulation). Breeding dogs is great for their breeds, but to the average dog owner, a rescue is just as good, if not better. Mutts are often a great choice and tend to have less chance of genetic diseases (For example, Goldens are predisposed to cancer so much that about 60% will die from it, while labs often have a mutation of an appetite regulation gene that makes them obese) but if you want a purebred of whatever breed you love, if you keep looking online, you can certainly find it in a rescue, probably even for less wait time than if you were waiting on a litter from a breeder. 

Hope this helps!


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## richard88

Definitely useful info.


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## richard88

How about this place ? Legit ?
https://marketplace.akc.org/puppies/golden-retriever?breed=123&page=1&per_page=20


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## parus

richard88 said:


> by crocodiles, do you mean they would chew everything up or fierce or both ?


Anything they can chew, they will chew. 

My mom's Golden Retriever puppy, which eventually grew up to be a truly lovely dog, once tore apart an entire sofa, including parts of the frame, when left briefly unattended. He had the softest mouth when bird hunting but Lord could he demolish an inanimate object in no time flat. Jaws of steel and the destructive appetite of a dragon.

A friend's juvenile lab gnawed a hole through the wall of their house, lol.


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## Francl27

richard88 said:


> How about this place ? Legit ?
> https://marketplace.akc.org/puppies/golden-retriever?breed=123&page=1&per_page=20


... no. A lot of backyard breeders and puppy mills have AKC registered dog, that doesn't mean that they are well bred. 


I gave you advice on how to find a good breeder, but you seem to be ignoring it.


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## Lillith

richard88 said:


> How about this place ? Legit ?
> https://marketplace.akc.org/puppies/golden-retriever?breed=123&page=1&per_page=20


It's *kind of* okay, you *might* find something, but you still have to do your research on each individual breeder. It's easier to just go to the official GR breed club page. I think the AKC Marketplace was started with good intentions, but bad breeders can post there, too. They don't vet the "breeders" that post there. Personally, I would prefer the official breed club page, because half the work is already done for you.

Any of the listings that say "Puppies available, ready to go" I would steer clear of. Good, ethical breeders match you with a puppy. Great breeders have a wait list because people want their well bred, stable dogs, so they typically won't have a "ready to go" or "instant" puppies.


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## Francl27

I guess that some of those at least DO health testing, so there's that.


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## richard88

I emailed one guy in the petzlover.com and he replied back with charging $400 for a puppy and inclusive of shipping the puppy from Michigan to Dallas. Wow, I didn't expect such as long distance "delivery" ! This is red flag to me.


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## Lillith

richard88 said:


> I emailed one guy in the petzlover.com and he replied back with charging $400 for a puppy and inclusive of shipping the puppy from Michigan to Dallas. Wow, I didn't expect such as long distance "delivery" ! This is red flag to me.


Once again...stop trying to find something on petzlover.com. Absolutely nobody has given that site a thumbs up. You will get a puppy mill puppy.


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## Super_Nova

Petloverz, nextdaypets, puppyfind.... they’re all garbage places to find a puppy. If you want a quality dog from a responsible breeder than you’ll need to do some searching. And yes, a good puppy will cost much more than 400$.


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## Canyx

A word of caution... Just because a site/breeder says they health test their dogs, doesn't mean they actually do it. For example, there is a horrible breeder in my area who claims their dogs hips scores are such and such... I searched extensively and as broadly as I could to find their dogs' records on sites like OFA and found nothing. Finally, I just emailed the breeder and politely asked to see the records. No responses yet. A lot of breeders also use the phrase "health tested" and all they mean is the dog has been seen by a general vet. Not the same as true tests for carrying genes for genetic disorders, or hip/elbow scores, etc.

Also, shipping is not necessarily a red flag. Not all great breeders ship but some do, even internationally.


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## richard88

Canyx said:


> A word of caution... Just because a site/breeder says they health test their dogs, doesn't mean they actually do it. For example, there is a horrible breeder in my area who claims their dogs hips scores are such and such... I searched extensively and as broadly as I could to find their dogs' records on sites like OFA and found nothing. Finally, I just emailed the breeder and politely asked to see the records. No responses yet. A lot of breeders also use the phrase "health tested" and all they mean is the dog has been seen by a general vet. Not the same as true tests for carrying genes for genetic disorders, or hip/elbow scores, etc.
> 
> Also, shipping is not necessarily a red flag. Not all great breeders ship but some do, even internationally.


Is it okay to ask for the breeder's Vet and then call up the Vet to check on the records ?


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## Super_Nova

richard88 said:


> Canyx said:
> 
> 
> 
> A word of caution... Just because a site/breeder says they health test their dogs, doesn't mean they actually do it. For example, there is a horrible breeder in my area who claims their dogs hips scores are such and such... I searched extensively and as broadly as I could to find their dogs' records on sites like OFA and found nothing. Finally, I just emailed the breeder and politely asked to see the records. No responses yet. A lot of breeders also use the phrase "health tested" and all they mean is the dog has been seen by a general vet. Not the same as true tests for carrying genes for genetic disorders, or hip/elbow scores, etc.
> 
> Also, shipping is not necessarily a red flag. Not all great breeders ship but some do, even internationally.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it okay to ask for the breeder's Vet and then call up the Vet to check on the records ?
Click to expand...

What Canyx just explained is that you will need proof of tests that exceed the vets ability. The vet isn’t who you will contact. You will need to get on * ofa.org * and search for test results. Some breeders will conveniently link results to their breeding page, but others do not.


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