# Will be buying an adult dog that I consider a rescue situation



## BaodicaTheIceni (May 19, 2015)

I need legal advice for acquiring a dog I believe was used for breeding and is now being disposed of since she can no longer produce viable puppies. I consider this a rescue and not merely a sale because I fear for her future if we do not buy her. 

Perhaps I am confused about the definition of a rescue but yesterday I realized something about this breeder I was not aware of before. Right now I want to make sure when I buy this dog that the ownership is turned over to me. *What papers need to be signed to show the dog is now mine? *

I am not experienced in this and have never rescued a dog before. I also have no idea what to expect from how this will affect the dog. She is 5 years old, a pomeranian. We bought one of her pups a couple years ago not realizing the true situation. Maybe this is not a puppy mill and maybe it is, I cannot prove anything, but I know I don't regret getting her puppy because we love him so much. It is because of him that we cannot ignore her plight. To me I see it as being thrown away now that she is no longer useful. For me our dogs are here to be part of our family and not thrown away.

I will have questions to ask when I meet with the owner so I will hopefully know as much as I can about her life so we can help her blend into ours, but if this is a puppy mill owner, and I don't know that, I won't know if her answers are honest or not. I despise puppy mills but my objective is not to expose her but to get this dog to a safe home where she will be loved and cared for and dealt with in a way that will ease her fears of a sudden change in her life. That is my primary concern at the moment.

If someone can give me some advice and also answer my question about what papers need to be signed over to me to show I will now be her owner I would appreciate it. 

This post is short notice but I only found out about this situation yesterday afternoon and we will be meeting with the owner Wednesday evening to meet the dog and hopefully obtain her. Thank you for your time and help.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice.

But basically, you are simply purchasing a dog from someone selling a dog, right? You bought a puppy from this source before, you presumably had some kind of purchase contract or sales papers that went with that puppy. So I would think the seller would have the same papers available for this dog that is being sold. If not, a google search will provide a boilerplate type purchase contract where you can fill in the terms of sale and contact information and signatures for both parties etc; a notary may be helpful for extra security if you happen to know one willing to come along with you.

If the dog is microchipped, you will need the chip information and you will need to use the sales paperwork to provide to the microchipping company to change the contact information to your phone number etc. The microchip company will likely charge about $15-25 for this service.

Then take the dog to a vet first thing and establish a vet-client relationship and a trail of vet records, vaccines etc, along with registering the dog with any city or county license required in your area.

If you are paying anything more than a token fee for this dog, many people will not consider it to be a "rescue" in the commonly used sense of the word. You may indeed be saving this particular dog from a bad fate, but if you are paying anything substantial/full price, then unfortunately it means a financial benefit to a person to continue to presumably treat dogs poorly and simply replace this breeding dog with another who will suffer the same fate later. I am not saying you should or shouldn't take ownership of this dog, just that don't be surprised if buying this dog is still seen as a purchase from a miller vs a rescue.

How it will affect the dog emotionally/behaviorally will really depend a lot on the current care and living situation of the dog. If she has been socialized off-property, with other dogs and people etc for example. If she is healthy or if she needs a lot of vet care. If she is potty trained or not. All those things are kind of a 'cross that bridge when you come to it' thing.


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## BaodicaTheIceni (May 19, 2015)

Thank you, your answer was helpful and brought up things I have not considered. 

The fee for her is $200, less than what I would probably be paying for a rescue dog advertised as a rescue dog. That amount does seem like a token fee but I am no expert on this subject. I also realize I could be helping her to continue what she does but like I said, it is the dog that is foremost in my mind at this moment. I don't know if I am making a mistake or not, but things have happened in the last couple of weeks that led me to find out about this dog and her situation yesterday and I feel compelled to act on it. This is not a common situation for me, it is a first.

I do recall being given papers on the dogs I have purchased in the past so I suppose it would be the same but I will check out your suggestion on looking for a purchase contract online just in case.

I appreciate you taking the time to give me some guidance. Hopefully all will go well for us and most of all for the dog. If not I will be back to this rescue forum to seek advice from people who have dealt with taking in an previously unwanted animal. 

Maybe rescue is the wrong word, I don't know, but obviously at this time she is unwanted (because she cannot make them money) by her owners and that is why I see it as a rescue. It is very possible someone else would have come along and bought the dog and she would be fine, but our family is intensely interested in her welfare and we don't want to take the chance no other buyer would be found and she would be disposed of. Thanks again.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> The fee for her is $200, less than what I would probably be paying for a rescue dog advertised as a rescue dog. That amount does seem like a token fee but I am no expert on this subject.


Depending on your area, that fee might be considered a token fee although unless the dog is spayed and vaccinated, it is basically pure profit to someone who might otherwise dump the dog for free. It does sound like you are going to do right by this particular dog though and are willing to work with what issues she may have which is key.

As something of an aside, the fees paid for rescue dogs through either non-profit rescues or to local humane societies and such are a bit different than a fee paid to a breeder like this so the amounts between the two are hard to compare. For a non-profit situation, the fee for an adult dog should cover spay/neuter, all vaccines UTD and microchipping, cover the care of that dog while the dog is in the shelter or foster home and what is maybe the most important key distinction, that any leftover proceeds that were not needed for that dog will go to the care and shelter of dogs that cost more to provide for such as medical cases or senior dogs etc. 

Whereas fees paid to a breeder-- whether a "good" or "bad" breeder-- go to the continuation of that individual's breeding practices. Which is part the consideration in looking for a breeder whose ethics and goals you support.

If you take in the dog and run into training or behavioral issues, you'll tend to get a lot more responses in the main forum sections like "New Dog Owner" or "Training" because many of the common training issues aren't solely issues with rescue dogs. 

My advice in general would be to take it easy with the dog for the first few weeks-- low key. Quiet walks, only a few visitors in the house at a time rather than any parties or big groups over for say, the upcoming holiday weekend. Confine the dog to a crate or pen if you cannot watch her until you learn if she is potty trained (or if she is pee-pad trained vs outside trained) and if she is a chewer or otherwise destructive. Better to have the dog in a crate or pen for a bit than to have the dog in for surgery to remove a sock she ate....
Let her set the pace for interactions like being petted or cuddling.


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## BaodicaTheIceni (May 19, 2015)

I am pretty sure this little dog has not been spayed. I will ask when we get her but I have a strong feeling she is not. I hope I am wrong. I will ask questions but not until the money has changed hands and all papers handed over to me. I do tend to be on the paranoid side sometimes and if she is a puppy mill breeder I don't want to spook her off and not sell me the dog. I do have some ethics on this subject but this animals welfare supercedes all that at the moment. We are willing to have her spayed if the vet thinks she can handle it. I don't have loads of money, it just means I have committed myself to this little girl and no way will walk away without her unless its a completely hopeless case that I have no control over. From what I have read she considers her dogs family and they are socialized and have the run of the house. However when I bought my puppy 2 years ago I was a bit suspicious because she met us at a parking lot to make the sale. The puppy we got is actually one of the most joyful happy healthy dogs we have ever had so I just did not give it much thought. I don't like accusing people of something when I really don't know so I have given her the benefit of doubt, but that suspicion came back when I saw she wanted to sell off the dog that is no longer useful to her. To me that is not the sign of a loving family pet owner. But even then I still don't know. I won't be buying another puppy from this lady again, my conscious would bother me if I did.

Thanks for the tips on which forum subjects to use. I have spent the day reading about how to treat a dog that has suddenly been uprooted and have found a lot of good tips and advice and my grandchildren even seem to understand this is not like getting a new puppy. We will slowly introduce her to her new environment and allow her to explore it for herself without feeling overwhelmed by even the people in this house. The kids know they cannot rush her or expect from her what they got from the puppy. She will know we want her but not forced to play or cuddle, it will be on her terms when she is ready. Leash for the backyard until we are sure she will not hide under our deck or try to dig her way out of the yard. She will be accompanied or watched closely at all times when outside in our huge fenced in backyard. I can't wait til she is a part of our family. I've always been "about the puppy" and although we took in a couple strays as a kid in the 1960's I have never done it myself as an adult. I feel just as thrilled as if we were getting a new puppy. I feel I have matured a lot about dogs in just the last few days and that getting a puppy is not always what matters.

It is nice to know this forum is here to help out people when problems arise. Thanks for the new tips here.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm not a vet, but if for some reason the vet says she isn't healthy to be spayed at this time, make sure to ask about the risks/signs of pyometra and aim to schedule a re-check and look to spay her after she's gotten healthy. For example, if she is underweight right now and needs to gain a lb or two, then once she has done that, plan for a spay. If your other dog is a male and is not fixed, you'll need to be very vigilant if she goes into heat before she is spayed. At 5 years old, while you mention that she can't produce viable puppies, that doesn't necessarily mean she cannot become pregnant still and that could be high risk for her.

IMO, dogs in general are very resilient. They can take time to adapt to a new situation but you can bond just as strongly with an adult dog as with a puppy and vice versa. You might luck out and find that she's already house trained and has some basic training like walking on a leash and then it can be an even easier adjustment than to a new puppy.

I adopted my male dog when he was about 1.5 years from a local humane society and my female dog at about 2.5 years old as a failed foster (meaning that I was fostering her for a rescue group and decided to adopt her myself). Before adopting the female dog, I fostered for about 2.5 years and mostly adult dogs with some problems like being dog aggressive/dog reactive or being overly stressed out and fearful and such. Some needed more time than others to recover but it was a delight to see positive changes happening each week or each month. I think its a good rule of thumb to figure at least 3 months for an adult dog to settle into a new home and easily more like 6 months if the dog has had a rougher life in the past or is very timid or such.


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## buttonlady (Mar 2, 2011)

BaodicaTheIceni said:


> I need legal advice for acquiring a dog I believe was used for breeding and is now being disposed of since she can no longer produce viable puppies. I consider this a rescue and not merely a sale because I fear for her future if we do not buy her.
> 
> Perhaps I am confused about the definition of a rescue but yesterday I realized something about this breeder I was not aware of before. Right now I want to make sure when I buy this dog that the ownership is turned over to me. *What papers need to be signed to show the dog is now mine? *
> 
> ...


Thank you for caring about this little lady, it always pains me when dogs are considered disposable.

I've had two retired female Poms, both were "free", no money changed hands with the breeders; the first one was definitely a puppy mill situation, the owner bred several toy breeds, and this little female was in terrible condition when I got her. The owner just handed her to me, he couldn't even remember her name! Although she was free, I spent over $1000 on her the first few months treating her heartworm disease, getting her mouth to where she could eat, spaying her ,etc. She was the best natured little dog and was well loved for the six years she lived with me, and worth every penny.

The second Pom's owner was more a back yard breeder, but that owner at least cared enough to ask me some questions, and had some medical records on her dog. She asked me to send her proof of the spay, and I was surprised when I got AKC papers sent back to me, with instructions on how to change ownership on the registration. 

In both cases I had them microchipped in my name, and had vet bills and vet records that started the day I brought them home. I don't know where you live, but in my neck of the woods whoever is paying for the dog is presumed to be the owner. 

If she is selling the dog, and you are paying for her, you should get a bill of sale, or a receipt of some kind. In the case of my girls, I just assumed their care, and became their owner by assuming the responsibility for them.


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## BaodicaTheIceni (May 19, 2015)

*buttonlady*: I probably am being harsh when I say puppy mill, it is probably more likely a backyard breeder situation. When we got our puppy she sent some things home with us, food, pads and a few other things. I also think I know where she lives which would be in a trailer park (I looked it her up online just a bit ago) near a main highway in town, hardly the place where one could run a puppy mill without being noticed. I would think a person would be pretty careless in compromising their "business" to sell me a dog that had so many maladies that it would cost me a lot to get them help. I have printed out a sale contract just in case she neglects to bring a bill of sale receipt. As you can see I take my research seriously and don't mess around. I am trying not to be careless. I really hope this dog is in decent health. She will be seeing the vet as soon as my daughter can get her in there (I can no longer drive). 

*Shell: * Both of our males are neutered so that is not a worry. Also our backyard is very secure. We live in a somewhat rural area where we do have neighbors at a distance with dogs but it is rare to see any roaming. Also coyotes, hawks and potential predators are around us but no one has lost a pet yet that has kept their animal secured behind a fence, and she will not be left alone in our fenced yard so if she is not spayed yet she will be ok for the time being. I also think the present owners willingness to answer my questions will give me an idea of what we are getting. If she seems to not want to answer or hesitates it could tell me she has not been well cared for. Body language tells us more than words. My daughter will be taking me and she is even more observant than I am. I admit I am a little bit concerned how much this will cost me in the long term but I have some faith that I am being led in the right direction. I guess by the end of the week after she has seen a vet we will know more.


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## BaodicaTheIceni (May 19, 2015)

I came back in to *thank you all.* The dog is in our possession now, she is adjusting and already seeking out comfort among family members, joined in a for a snack with the other dogs and hid the dog treat she was given. She is now cuddling with my daughter, who will be her primary owner. She will be seeing the vet tomorrow, but I think everything is going to be fine for her. She is an affectionate and trusting dog.


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