# Pro Plan for Mini Dachsund?



## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

I am feeding my new 18 week mini dach Pro Plan puppy along with a little canned food. I just want to make sure this is a good dog food because Tucker is so small (2.8 pounds). I do plan to cut out the canned food in about a week if possible. I do not want him to put on TOO MUCH weight....


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Check out the stickies at the top of the food forum. Also dogfoodanalysis.com does a good job of explaining dog food ingredients and how to evaluate foods.


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

For some reason dogfoodanalysis is down.. is it just me?

All Purina and Pro Plan foods rate as a F
F Pro Plan Giant Breed Adult 41
F Pro Plan Performance 53
F Pro Plan Chicken and Rice
F Purina Dog chow
F Purina Large Breed 40
F Diamond Lamb and Rice 61
F Diamond Performance (formerly professional)
F Diamond Large Breed 55

Where are you buying food from?

If you're shopping at Petco you're best bet is either Soild Gold, Natural Balace (Ted eats Fish and Sweat Potato) or Eukanuba. The Eukanuba would be last of the three imo. 

If you're shopping at Petsmart Eukanuba is so far the only "good" food I've found at any Petsmart. They seems to have very few good quality brands.


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## BayouGal (Apr 21, 2008)

This is just my opinion, so don't take it as pure fact without doing your own research but....I wouldn't feed Purina or Eukanuba to my dog. I HAVE fed purina in the past, but I've been doing quite a bit of research lately and have found that they are NOT good foods. 

I currently feed Canidae but am looking to go grain free, so I'm in the midst of a change myself. Go to the dogfoodanalysis website and look at how they rate the foods. It has a wealth of information for you. Look for a food with no corn, no beet pulp, "good" grains (if you want to feed them), and a named meat source or sources...not some phantom meat product. 

I should also suggest buying from specialty shop where they know all about good dog nutrition. Also some feed stores carry the higher end brands.

Good luck in your search!


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## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

Well, I live in a small town and the only place to even buy dog food is PetSmart or my vet. The Pro Plan was recommended by my vet and sold by them???? I guess I could order online but gosh, that is alot of trouble. I want him to have the best though....


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

With a small dog I would suggest that you make a run every few months to the nearest place that carries high quality dog food (after you decide on a short list of acceptable choices) and buy enough for a few months and keep the overflow in gallon bags in the freezer. There are also plenty of online food suppliers, but you generally get better prices if you order large quantities...not feasible with such a small dog.


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## Zack_the_Mouse (Oct 2, 2007)

there`s no small pet store in ur town


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

FredMom said:


> Honey, stick with ProPlan. I feed my basset hound Pro Plan for sensitive skin and stomach and he does GREAT! Dont fall for these website gimmicks. I bought Fred some of these so called "premium" foods and all I got was a sick dog with a burnt out coat, runny stool, and he was down right miserable. Purina is hated on this site but its funny that dog show champion breeders stick by Purina products and it its so bad, it would NOT have lasted as long as it has.
> 
> Unless your dog show signs of allergies or have a burnt out coat or runny stools, STICK WITH Proplan. Ive seen dogs live as long as 16 yrs on Purina. Stick with what works for YOUR dog and dont let anyone make you feel like a bad owner because they choose to spend a fortune on dog food and you dont have to. Unless they are dogs themselves, they truly cant tell you what is best for YOUR dog.


When picking any food corn really shouldn't be in it. Let alone in the first 5 ingredients. When two of the first five ingredients are corn..that's a down right bad food. (i'm not trying to make you feel bad Tuckersmom) True some dogs do fine on it, but it's no where near the best like the OP wants to feed her dog. 

If you want and are willing to spend the little extra cash then by all means do it. I do spend a bit more on Teddie's food because it lasts longer so I don't feel bad if it's a little bit more. 

I also just want to add that vets are the last person to trust when it comes to nutrition. If you're looking for a good quality food I'd stay away from brands like Iams, Purina, Science Diet (plenty aren't listed, but those are a few of the biger names). When you go to where ever you'd buy food look at the first five ingredients; corn shouldn't be in any of them. Also look for by products, you don't want those in your food either.

That's just the rest of my two cents.


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## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

Okay, I am just confused now!! He is doing fine with the Pro Plan recommended by my vet BUT I do want only the best for him as he is my baby!! You see, the whole reason I got him was my kids are older and are NEVER at home anymore...LOL I needed a baby and trust me, I was going to opt for "literally" having a baby!! Too old for that!! LOL

Anyway, now I don't know what to do about his food....guess I will stick to Pro Plan.


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## poofywoof (Nov 17, 2006)

Before you decide whether to switch your baby's food or not, take some time and do a little Research of your own. Read something besides manufacturer's websites and sales ploys. Try a book or article on dog nutrition. There are lots of places to get information about what nutrients are required to get the best results for dogs and puppies of all ages. There is some good information on dogfoodanalysis.com and on the 'dogfoodproject' site, but there are other informative, unbiased articles if you do some internet searching. Research first, decide afterward.


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## PeppersMama (Apr 25, 2008)

When I was at my vet this morning my vet recommends Science Diet. But you know how I am about dog food. I feed Iams to both cats and dogs. My cats are doing really well on the hairball formula and Pep was doing fine on Iams Puppy til she got her little virus.


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## Kotone (Apr 20, 2008)

Blue Buffalo is a pretty good food that Petsmart sells(one of the few, lol). 

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php/product/355/cat/4


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## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

Well, I guess I will stick with Pro Plan until for some reason I need to change....honestly, Tucker is doing just fine with it....


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

I can't stand that dog food analysis site. This one is much better, lots and lots of information. There are no ratings, so you have to read, read labels, and make your own decisions.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

Here's what they say about corn, not to be confused with corn gluten meal...



> Compared to herbivores a dog's digestive tract is much less specialized for digesting grains, or carbohydrates in general for that matter - especially in their raw, unprocessed form. However, dogs are not true carnivores but opportunistic feeders and can digest and utilize the starch from grains in dog food that has been converted by the cooking process. Digestibility depends on quality and type of grain used: rice (72%) is for example more digestible than wheat (60%) or corn (54%). Dogs can absorb the digestible carbohydrates from rice almost entirely, of the other grains about 20% are not absorbed. Indigestible fiber from grains contribute to intestinal health.


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## BayouGal (Apr 21, 2008)

FredMom said:


> If he is doing fine with ProPlan, stick with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read! You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. If you did your REASEARCH, you would know that corn should not be in dog food. Sure, it's been fed for years....but do you have any idea at what consequence to the dog? Of course you don't because you, my dear, are uninformed!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

FredMom said:


> Honey, stick with ProPlan. I feed my basset hound Pro Plan for sensitive skin and stomach and he does GREAT! Dont fall for these website gimmicks. I bought Fred some of these so called "premium" foods and all I got was a sick dog with a burnt out coat, runny stool, and he was down right miserable. Purina is hated on this site but its funny that dog show champion breeders stick by Purina products and it its so bad, it would NOT have lasted as long as it has.
> 
> Unless your dog show signs of allergies or have a burnt out coat or runny stools, STICK WITH Proplan. Ive seen dogs live as long as 16 yrs on Purina. Stick with what works for YOUR dog and dont let anyone make you feel like a bad owner because they choose to spend a fortune on dog food and you dont have to. Unless they are dogs themselves, they truly cant tell you what is best for YOUR dog.


Most champion breeders seem to feed bad foods imo. Or it's common. However when their dogs actually go out on circuit, guess what they eat? Raw most often. There is a reason for this. 

Now raw isn't feasible for many people and that's fine. 

I recommend to look at the dog food project- its helpful and overall very informative.

My dogs used to do well enough on science diet and purina - even Pedigree!  but I read a bit and researched for myself and now believe there are better ways to feed a dog. Just because a dog is doing alright on these foods does not mean its best for them. 

I've been pleased with California Natural, Canidae, and Innova EVO so far. My senior is on some Merrick canned food because we had a health scare recently and basically just had to find something she'd eat. Canidae and Innova both have store finders on their websites which are very helpful.

I have noticed differences in my dogs since switching them to better foods. They weren't doing 'bad' on the others, but they're doing much better on these.


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

> *ProPlan Chicken and Rice*Chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn bran, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, dried egg product, calcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite






> *Timberwolf Organics Southwest Chicken Canid Formula*
> Chicken Meal, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Fat, Ground Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Salmon Meal, Ground Barley, Dried Egg Product, Dried Whey Extract, Salmon Oil, Dried Cranberries, Ground Turmeric, Ground Anise Seed, Ground Cumin, Ground Ginger, Ground Rosemary, Ground Coriander, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Tomato Pomace, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Lecithin, Taurine, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Choline Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Cobalt Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Citric Acid, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Rosemary Extract




As you can see, there is a really big difference between proplan and a quality food. This food guarantees that 50% of it will be meat in a meal form. Meal form is meat minus the water content which is 80%. In dry food the moisture is removed. So when proplan lists chicken in wet form as the first ingredient there really won't be much chicken left after the water is removed.

Also, food is listed in order of weight. The good food has a meat as the first three ingredients. And I think we can both agree that dogs live off of meat, not grains. While proplan as chicken in wet form as the first ingredient, but once the water is removed(which is 80% of the weight) the chicken will be a much smaller ingredient. The next two ingredients are grains. Then the fourth ingredient is Poultry by product meal. By product is basically the stuff left over that humans would never touch with a 6 foot pole. 

This food also contains a great selection of fruits, vegetables, probiotics and proenzymes. The vitamins and minerals in the food are added in their natural form instead of a manmade chemical alternative. When you just read the labels, even a novice can tell there is a vast difference between the two.
And FYI about corn, even humans find it really difficult to digest. Corn is just not the best carbohydrate source for anyone.


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

FredMom said:


> I used to do the food comparison stuff and all I got was a sick dog. Ive been there, done that. Nothing you post will change my mind about Purina, which has proved itself to be a great food throught the years. I love the fact that my dog has a shiny coat, small firm stool, high energy and no health problems. Purina does that for my dog so Im sticking with it. No website is gonna dictate what is good for my dog. As long as Fred is happy and healthy, thats al that matters.


Can I ask which foods you tried?



FredMom said:


> Oh I have a very GOOD idea about those expensive foods, because I read those websites and fed my dog some of those expensive, over-priced expensive foods and all I got was a very unhappy sick dog. That research is a bunch of bull and I learned the hard way. If Purina is so bad, then WHY have dogs lived so long with it BEFORE the so called new and improved foods came out?
> 
> That dogfoodanalysis website is a GIMMICK to get owners to spend more money on dog food that is no more nutritious than Purina. If you are so hung up about corn, get Pro Plan for sensitive skin and stomach that is WITHOUT corn and SALMON IS THE #1 INGREDIENT.
> 
> I have seen dogs live to be 16 yrs old on Purina and have lived healthy lives, so dont tell me what you think to be ridiculous, when thr FACT is that Purina is still a good food and its has been proven throughout the years. Now if you choose to fall for the sucker traps these expensive dog food companies set out for the weakminded, through these gimmick websites, then DO YOU. I choose not to burn a hole in my pocket to feed my dog according to what some site says. PURINA HAS BEEN GOOD TO MY DOG AND I AM STICKING WITH IT!


I find it a little odd that just because one dog as done bad on these foods, that you have decided they are a complete gimick and that purina is the holy grail of dog food since it works for you. 

The important thing is for everyone to feed what is best for their individual dog. Maybe for you that is purina, I don't now. But for me after months of research, I have selected a rotation of 4 different premium foods. This works amazing for my dogs. And FYI my dogs are show dogs and they look great. But just because this works for me doesn't mean it will work for you. I went through quite a few bags till a found the combination that really complements them. 

But I am still always activly researching, ad every few months I will try something new. It's a working process. But there are dogs that literally can't stomach the premium foods. The food is too rich for them to process. This is rare but it does happen. That is why we all have to find what is best for our dogs and live with it. For me that is starting with the best food I can find, and working my way down until my dog is happy with the food on a day to day basis.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Because one dog does poorly on a food does not make it bad for all dogs. My dogs do much much better on California Natural and EVO than on anything else. 

I wouldn't feed a food my dog did not do well on to my dog of course. Do what works for you, but I wouldn't not try a food on another dog down the road.


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## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

Tucker is fine with the Pro Plan. I talked with my vet again on Saturday and she highly recommends it. Why would my vet and the entire clinic recommend a dog food that was bad for your pet? They wouldn't. I have no problem with what all of you decide to feed your pets. It's just a personal preference and what works best for your dog. So, since Tucker is doing so well with the Pro Plan I have made my final decision to stick with it.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

actually, most.. id say around 90% of vets recieve little nutritional education while in school. vets offices are also paid to push certain foods. THAT is why a WHOLE vets office will suggest it. i love my vet, but i wont ask him for input with my dogs diet, because he doesnt know. he will tell me to feed science diet, eukanuba, or royal canin, because thats what they sell in their office. none of which i like.... im not saying you have a bad vet, im just telling you how the vets work with food

Edit to add: i just read back in your posts, and TA DA, your vet sells the food. just as i suspected.
i would encourage a change of food. atleast try a small bag of a better food. if it doesnt work, switch back. but how are you ever going to know if hes at his healthiest unless you try.... ive tried atleast 5 foods. everyone i tried got better, then i got one that was bad, then i changed and got one that was the best. how would i have known what my danes could REALLY look like without giving another food a shot. they didnt look bad on the food i originally had them on, but now they look better


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

TucksMom said:


> Tucker is fine with the Pro Plan. I talked with my vet again on Saturday and she highly recommends it. Why would my vet and the entire clinic recommend a dog food that was bad for your pet? They wouldn't. I have no problem with what all of you decide to feed your pets. It's just a personal preference and what works best for your dog. So, since Tucker is doing so well with the Pro Plan I have made my final decision to stick with it.


If your vet sells the food take a recommendation with a big grain of salt. The stuff my vet pushes is not what I want to feed. The stuff my BREEDER feeds is not what I want to feed, either. 

Even at the feed store I shop at they will push certain brands (Merrick). Distributors will often get something back for selling a certain brand.

I prefer to research on my own then politely tell my vets that I will not be feeding science diet or the feed store I won't be feeding Merrick. I don't like the dog food analysis site but the dog food project is good, imo.

If your dog does well on it and you're satisfied then its your decision.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Pro Plan isn't awful, and if someone's dog does well on it, more power to them. I think it's expensive for the quality, though. I can get Canidae and Chicken Soup for the same price or less, and those have a lot more meat in them.


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

TucksMom said:


> Okay, I am just confused now!! He is doing fine with the Pro Plan recommended by my vet BUT I do want only the best for him as he is my baby!! You see, the whole reason I got him was my kids are older and are NEVER at home anymore...LOL I needed a baby and trust me, I was going to opt for "literally" having a baby!! Too old for that!! LOL
> 
> Anyway, now I don't know what to do about his food....guess I will stick to Pro Plan.



If your dog is doing well with Pro Plan, stick with it! I have 10 dogs and have tried the corn free, grainless, holistic foods - not only did they not work, some even caused sever problems. The ones with the absolute best looking ingredient lists with a sprig of parsley or cinnamon stick or whatever is the latest herbal supplement thrown in have always been the worst performers!!! I have hunting dogs and a show champion bitch that have very high nutritional requirements and we have always had good luck with Purina products. When you breed, show and work dogs hard, nutritional defiiencies and dietary inadequacies surface very quickly. Dogs will literally just seem to fall apart when diet is shoddy. I have seen my dogs just go to pot on food that cost me $50 a bag. Had they worked as well as Purina does, I'd have continued to feed it, regardless of price. But they didn't work, and my dogs suffered because of my own foolish guilt in not buying them a food that was marketed as a "Top 10" or "5 Star" kibble. It wasn't fair to the dogs to continue with my own selfish want to feed a prestegious 5 star food. 

I have a friend with a Beagle who is into the holistic methods of feeding. She uses Nutro, because it's marketed as being by product free. I've explained to her that it's just a way for them to compete with other foods frequently sold with theirs, mainly Eukanuba. If you lool at some of Nutro's formulations, especially the Ultra, much of what they tout their food as is to contradict Euk's claims of their food. Anyway, her dog has absolutely no muscle mass. He sheds horrendously and his coat is dull, the black saddle tinted red, and he's incontinant (a problem mine had on Nutro Nat Choice). Meanwhile, my dogs fed Purina have glossy coats, bright eyes, clean ears, firm stools, and are so well muscled even in the summer they have barely any fat but are just rock solid w/ muscle. So whose dogs are better nourished? 

If Pro Plan is working, go ahead and feed it, guilt free. There are hundreds, if not thousands of successful kennels feeding Pro Plan - one featured kennel in my Purina Today's Breeder magazine has been feeding Purina since 1949, when his father owned the kennel. That's quite a long time to feed something that's garbage. Remember Uno, the Beagle that won Westminster? Both his co breeders feed Pro Plan. He was literally concieved on, weaned onto, and still fed Pro Plan. Not too shabby for a dog eating garbage, lol.



Laurelin said:


> Most champion breeders seem to feed bad foods imo. Or it's common. However when their dogs actually go out on circuit, guess what they eat? Raw most often. There is a reason for this.



That is SO untrue!!! The fact of the matter is that there are a good number of show breeders who supplement with raw, and many opt to feed it for teeth cleaning purposes, to scrape tartar off show dog's teeth. However, I don't know ANY professional handler who allows their dogs to eat raw on the show circuit. Firstly, becuase they will not risk feeding it to a dog they do not own, secondly, they have too many dogs to feed to be able to give everyone raw. Considering that professional handlers are campaigning some of the top dogs in their breeds, I'd say they look pretty good on the kibble they are being fed. And yes, most show people do feed gorcery store feeds or kibble that would be rejected on this board. But that's not because they have no knowledge of nutrition. Quite the opposite in fact. The ones I know have tried these diets and they simply do not give results. I know at least one Beagle in the top 10 of the breed standings this year is being fed Pedigree - and his coat/natural pigmentation is remarkable. And several others are being fed Pro Plan and nothing else. Look at the coats on these dogs! Sure, the handlers use grooming products that really make the dog glow, but all the supplements, grooming aids, special shampoos and chalks in the world will never cover up poor nutrition.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

UrbanBeagles said:


> That is SO untrue!!! The fact of the matter is that there are a good number of show breeders who supplement with raw, and many opt to feed it for teeth cleaning purposes, to scrape tartar off show dog's teeth. However, I don't know ANY professional handler who allows their dogs to eat raw on the show circuit. Firstly, becuase they will not risk feeding it to a dog they do not own, secondly, they have too many dogs to feed to be able to give everyone raw. Considering that professional handlers are campaigning some of the top dogs in their breeds, I'd say they look pretty good on the kibble they are being fed. And yes, most show people do feed gorcery store feeds or kibble that would be rejected on this board. But that's not because they have no knowledge of nutrition. Quite the opposite in fact. The ones I know have tried these diets and they simply do not give results. I know at least one Beagle in the top 10 of the breed standings this year is being fed Pedigree - and his coat/natural pigmentation is remarkable. And several others are being fed Pro Plan and nothing else. Look at the coats on these dogs! Sure, the handlers use grooming products that really make the dog glow, but all the supplements, grooming aids, special shampoos and chalks in the world will never cover up poor nutrition.


All I can say is our handlers all feed raw. 

These people show top top dogs. Top ten toys including a recent Westminster group winner, all breed BIS winners, etc.


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

UrbanBeagles said:


> That is SO untrue!!! The fact of the matter is that there are a good number of show breeders who supplement with raw, and many opt to feed it for teeth cleaning purposes, to scrape tartar off show dog's teeth. However, I don't know ANY professional handler who allows their dogs to eat raw on the show circuit. Firstly, becuase they will not risk feeding it to a dog they do not own, secondly, they have too many dogs to feed to be able to give everyone raw. Considering that professional handlers are campaigning some of the top dogs in their breeds, I'd say they look pretty good on the kibble they are being fed. And yes, most show people do feed gorcery store feeds or kibble that would be rejected on this board. But that's not because they have no knowledge of nutrition. Quite the opposite in fact. The ones I know have tried these diets and they simply do not give results. I know at least one Beagle in the top 10 of the breed standings this year is being fed Pedigree - and his coat/natural pigmentation is remarkable. And several others are being fed Pro Plan and nothing else. Look at the coats on these dogs! Sure, the handlers use grooming products that really make the dog glow, but all the supplements, grooming aids, special shampoos and chalks in the world will never cover up poor nutrition.


Most handlers I know feed whatever the owner wants them to feed. My handler has four or five different foods that she buys. But I always bring food for my dog when he's with her. She doesn't purchase it , but she is impressed with the food I fed. Handlers are showing multiple dogs, so they aren't going to switch all of their diets if they can help it. Just to reduce upset stomachs. As long as it works, don't fix it. If they don't want to feed raw on circuit, they generally will switch to grainless. Thats the closest alternative. 

But I do know a rottweiler handler that cooks he's dogs grilled chicken every morning including show days. Now those are some happy show dogs. It just depends on the handler and how many dogs they show. I know mine would never have the time to feed raw unless I premade it. But she shows several breeds and lots of dogs. Most handlers show mostly one breed so they would have more time for flexiblity.

We can keep going back and forth on this dog eats this and they look great. Or you can just look at the food for what it is. Everyone has to be comfortable with what they feed, and feel that it is in the best interest of their dog. You seem to be happy with it. I think thats great. My dogs used to be on proplan. They did well on it. But they do better on the foods I feed now. But thats my dogs. If I switched them to raw I'm sure they would improve even more. I just don't have the time to research it the way I need to first. I will switch in the next year or so hopefully.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

DobManiac said:


> Most handlers I know feed whatever the owner wants them to feed. My handler has four or five different foods that she buys. But I always bring food for my dog when he's with her. She doesn't purchase it , but she is impressed with the food I fed. Handlers are showing multiple dogs, so they aren't going to switch all of their diets if they can help it. Just to reduce upset stomachs. As long as it works, don't fix it. If they don't want to feed raw on circuit, they generally will switch to grainless. Thats the closest alternative.
> 
> But I do know a rottweiler handler that cooks he's dogs grilled chicken every morning including show days. Now those are some happy show dogs. It just depends on the handler and how many dogs they show. I know mine would never have the time to feed raw unless I premade it. But she shows several breeds and lots of dogs. Most handlers show mostly one breed so they would have more time for flexiblity.


Just to clarify our handlers show many breeds, however they are also a group of three that work together so more people around the dogs and more time to feed. Plus most the dogs are toys so its also a lot less meat than someone handling a larger breed dog. 

Most people I know that handle their own dogs feed raw as well.


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

Laurelin said:


> Just to clarify our handlers show many breeds, however they are also a group of three that work together so more people around the dogs and more time to feed. Plus most the dogs are toys so its also a lot less meat than someone handling a larger breed dog.
> 
> Most people I know that handle their own dogs feed raw as well.


Like I said, it depends on the handler and how they are able to work it. I know a breeder/handler that feeds raw at home and on circuit. But she only shows her own dogs generally. And she only shows dobermans. 

I think thats great if your handler can manage to feed raw, it really might have to do with them being toys. I can only speak from my experience. My handler can travel with up to 20 dogs. She has three people to assist with their care and grooming. Since she shows mostly dobermans and boxers, she would need another truck just to carry the meat with her. She's just not set up to do it.

But it doesn't really matter. You still have to make the desicion of what to feed for yourself. My breeder feeds proplan. I was very happy when I finally got Ollie off of that and on Timberwolf. She would rather if I stuck with proplan, but she also sees Ollie every couple of weeks and knows she has nothing to complain about.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

I think you'd be surprised, I bet there is somewhere to buy more brands of food than at Petsmart and Petco. What is the name of your town?


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## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

jesirose said:


> I think you'd be surprised, I bet there is somewhere to buy more brands of food than at Petsmart and Petco. What is the name of your town?


It is Millbrook, AL, next closest is Prattville and then Montgomery. Not going to Montgomery, hate driving there.....

I really think at this point, since Tucker is doing well with the Pro Plan there is no reason to stop using it. I mean, why switch foods, have runny poo, possibly upsetting my dog by making him not feel well just to say I purchased a dog food listed on the top ten best sellers?????


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

There's always delivery. 

It's not a bad idea to try a few different ones. If you like the one he's on now, that's fine. But you could try a few things, try one food for a month and see how his eyes, coat, etc are after that. Then try another. I'd be wary of buying a food the vet sells, they get paid to sell those foods, just like the pet store does. 

There is a difference between it being bad for the dog and being not good enough. No, pro plan isn't going to kill the dog. But there is probably a better food that will be healthier for your dog. I went through the same thing with my rats - I could either buy the food mix sold in the store and they'd be fine, or make my own mix and they'd be healthier and live longer. It's much more obvious with the rats though  It only cost me $20 to try a new diet for them and see the difference, and it actually is cheaper in the long run.

Edit: and the best foods aren't the top 10 best sellers...it's the stuff they sell in the grocery stores that are the top 10. Being a best seller doesn't make it a good food. Look how many burgers McDonalds sells


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## jenns (Feb 16, 2007)

FredMom said:


> Yall can keep those gimmick websites and don't tell me that I could try a better food, because as far as I'm concerned there isn't one. I'll stick with Purina Pro Plan for Sensitive Skin and Stomach and Purina One Sensitive Systems. (


If the only food your dog does well on is a formula for sensitive skin and stomach, it sounds like your dog has a food sensitivity condition. Therefore, while it's great you have a food that your dog does well on, your experiences would not be applicable to most people with the average dog coming on here looking for advice on what to feed.

I have a mini dachshund and she does very well on Nature's Variety Prairie Beef and Rice, and Innova small bites..


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## jenns (Feb 16, 2007)

FredMom said:


> my dog LOVES FISH!! Salmon is the #1 ingredient which he LOVES! I mean, as a treat once a month I give him Sardines, Pink Salmon, or even some fried Catfish Fillets...LOL
> 
> He would rather eat some fish than a pack of Ground beef or some chicken breasts. Its weird, because Ive NEVER heard of a dog that loves fish more than anything, but Fred does...LOL
> 
> .



My dachshund, Zoe, loves fish as well. I give her sardines and she goes nuts. Maybe it's a hound thing?


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## buzonesbirdie (Mar 24, 2008)

> . Now if you choose to fall for the sucker traps these expensive dog food companies set out for the weakminded, through these gimmick websites, then DO YOU. I choose not to burn a hole in my pocket to feed my dog according to what some site says. PURINA HAS BEEN GOOD TO MY DOG AND I AM STICKING WITH IT!




I feeed chicken soup for the puppy lovers/dog lovers/ and cat lovers food (cat food is for the cat) and it is a better food then Pedigree and it does not "burn a hole in pocket". I get a 35 lb bag of food for the puppies for $27.99 and it lasts longer then the Pro Plan did which is what i was feeding to begin with. Better food does not need to be expensive. JMO


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## Chindo_Gae_Cerberus (Mar 24, 2008)

TucksMom:

As you can see, this is a highly debated subject. Argued by both knowledgeable and... not so well informed people. 

Bottom line. 
There is no one dog food.
Feed what your dog does great on (knowing that there may always be a better food out there which you simply haven't tried yet.) 
Feed what you can afford. 

I have never been a fan of all these new dog food ranking websites. 
I believe in personal research and to come to your own conclusions, feeding what you feel comfortable with. 

For me, that means I no longer feed foods by Purina, Science Diet, Iams, Eukanuba etc... 
Due to a lot of experience with those, and my formal and personal studies in canine nutrition. I have found them, long ago, to be in-superior examples of processed pet foods.

What ever food you ever decide to switch to in the future, keep a few key points in mind. 

1.) It will take a minimum of 3 months (on average) to see the true results a food will make in your dog.
2.) Transition onto any food very slowly, at least a period of one week, to reduce digestive upset. Specially when going from a lower grade food like Proplan to something such as a Grain Free diet, that is too big of a step all at once. 
3.) Even if you dog doesn't do well on one premium brand, doesn't mean all the other good brands out there won't work.

I'm sorry you feel that way. 
Hopefully some day you will change your mind. 

It's not about gimmicks or marketing, or feeding "the best". 

If you want to talk about conning customers into buying products via false advertisements you should look towards the major brands for that, such as Pro Plan, Science Diet, Iams, Nutro, etc. 
They put a lot of money into making people think their foods are better then they really are, millions of dollars spent on advertisements campaigns, and deals with vet offices just so the vet doctors can get the kick backs from the food companies. 
A lot vets sell and recommend those types of foods because it's all they know. 
They had one short course in animal nutrition, sometimes which is even sponsored and run by Science Diet. 

Which is why it's really not worth waisting your time asking your vet what food you should feed, unless they are a certified vet nutritionist and one that keeps up to date on dietary facts at that. 




TucksMom said:


> just to say I purchased a dog food listed on the top ten best sellers?????


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## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

Well, I was at PetSmart getting more dog food and lo and behold- Pro Plan Selects, and one for puppy. The first listed ingredient: MEAT. So, I bought it. It was a couple of dollars more. What a concept- a reasonably priced dog food with MEAT as the first and foremost ingredient and not corn and the like.....So, now you don't have to break the bank to get a decent dog food.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

TucksMom said:


> Well, I was at PetSmart getting more dog food and lo and behold- Pro Plan Selects, and one for puppy. The first listed ingredient: MEAT. So, I bought it. It was a couple of dollars more. What a concept- a reasonably priced dog food with MEAT as the first and foremost ingredient and not corn and the like.....So, now you don't have to break the bank to get a decent dog food.


so the first ingredient was literally "Meat" or was it a specific type of meat? if it says "meat" i run the other way. if someone sat a plate infront of you and say it was...ohhh.... cow testicles, and they said it was "meat", would you still want to eat it if you knew what it was?


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

> Turkey, brewers rice, pearled barley, chicken meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, oat meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried egg product, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), pea fiber, dried beet pulp, fish oil, natural flavor, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium carbonate, dried tomatoes, blueberry pomace, dried sweet potatoes, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.


This is just one of the Proplan Selects formulas.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

DobManiac said:


> This is just one of the Proplan Selects formulas.


thats not a very impressive ingredient list. you can get much better quality for the same price


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

FredMom said:


> It doesn't matter if it is impressive to YOU or not. She has chosen to stick with ProPlan and since ProPlan works for HER dog, thats ALL that matters.


i wasw giving MY opinion because obviously thats why THIS WAS POSTED. if i wasnt supposed to give my honest opinion then whats the point of being here... and like i had said before, your dog might be doing "fine" on one food, but you never know if they COULD be doing better unless you try. i thought my dogs were FINE on eagle pack hollistic, but until i switched to taste of the wild, i never knew the potential they really had. just because someones dog got sick trying a different food doesnt mean every dog will. my suggestion is get a small bag of a better food and try it out, if it doesnt work, the fine switch back. at that point i would say, yeah this food is what works for my dog. but if the dog improves, then whats the harm...


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## TucksMom (Apr 23, 2008)

GreatDaneMom said:


> thats not a very impressive ingredient list. you can get much better quality for the same price



My gosh! I've come to the conclusion I may or may not be visiting on this board anymore. How RUDE! Honestly people, here's an idea, feed what you want to your dog and don't try to down others for not spending a gazillion dollars on their dog's food! How about that???? Obviously there is a reason they like to use it. I swear, if I had known I was going to get this many snide and snippy remarks about dog food I would have never posted the question! Geez! Lighthen up!!!!!!!! My dog is happy and healthy and that is all that matters to me and mine, I don't need to put on "heirs" about how much I spend on dog food to make myself look like the "dog owner of the year."!!!


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

TucksMom said:


> My gosh! I've come to the conclusion I may or may not be visiting on this board anymore. How RUDE! Honestly people, here's an idea, feed what you want to your dog and don't try to down others for not spending a gazillion dollars on their dog's food! How about that???? Obviously there is a reason they like to use it. I swear, if I had known I was going to get this many snide and snippy remarks about dog food I would have never posted the question! Geez! Lighthen up!!!!!!!! My dog is happy and healthy and that is all that matters to me and mine, I don't need to put on "heirs" about how much I spend on dog food to make myself look like the "dog owner of the year."!!!


its not rude. its coming from people who researched these things. i own my own business making low allergen all natural healthy dog treats. therefore, i looked into this topic for a long time trying to educate myself. it has nothing to do with how much you spend either, i dont know why you cant understad that. if i can find a cheap food thats QUALITY, yeah i would feed it. but i havent found it yet. the food i recently switched to was CHEAPER than the food i was perviously feeding, and i feel the ingredients are better. *shrug* if you can take constructive criticizm then this isnt a good place to be. go to petsmart or something if you want someone to tell you how GREAT the food is that youre feeding. you wont find it from me. personally, if you dont take a chance and switch up a diet to see IF it could be better, then why bother with this post. people are TRYING to educate you a little on ingredients and enlighten you, but as we have seen many times before, some people just dont get it, or wont. either way....


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## PeppersMama (Apr 25, 2008)

GreatDaneMom said:


> its not rude. its coming from people who researched these things. i own my own business making low allergen all natural healthy dog treats. therefore, i looked into this topic for a long time trying to educate myself. it has nothing to do with how much you spend either, i dont know why you cant understad that. if i can find a cheap food thats QUALITY, yeah i would feed it. but i havent found it yet. the food i recently switched to was CHEAPER than the food i was perviously feeding, and i feel the ingredients are better. *shrug* if you can take constructive criticizm then this isnt a good place to be. go to petsmart or something if you want someone to tell you how GREAT the food is that youre feeding. you wont find it from me. personally, if you dont take a chance and switch up a diet to see IF it could be better, then why bother with this post. people are TRYING to educate you a little on ingredients and enlighten you, but as we have seen many times before, some people just dont get it, or wont. either way....




I am sorry but you are being RUDE. You keep on and on with YOUR OPINION. Trying to make her feel bad for not feeding what YOU believe is the best food. since the start of this thread you have came in here and over and over stated the same exact thing. Well you made your point and so did she.

TucksMom, you do what you think is right and if your dog is still doing well then go on with it.


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## Motebi (Apr 8, 2008)

I got some info for you - maybe it will help you make a decision:

http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#TopDry 

http://www.api4animals.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> its not rude. its coming from people who researched these things. i own my own business making low allergen all natural healthy dog treats. therefore, i looked into this topic for a long time trying to educate myself. it has nothing to do with how much you spend either, i dont know why you cant understad that. if i can find a cheap food thats QUALITY, yeah i would feed it. but i havent found it yet.



I'm sorry, but you are doing nothing but making assumptions that those of us who do not feed holistic diets have not spent any time educating ourselves on canine nutrition. I have been studying the nutritional needs of dogs since 2001 ... that was also the year I started feeding raw, and as a long term diet, no matter what I did to balance out the diet, we simply did not get results that justified the continued feeding of raw. I am well aware of how canines should be fed, and you better believe I pay attention to the vitamin content of any food I purchase. I've researched enough to know that ingredients are secondary, and coming to this conclusion was a long, ardous journey. I've fed raw for a few years, holistic kibble - one after another for years. We had hounds that tended to be hypoglycemic in the field on certain foods (Evolve), foods that one of the dogs lost a signifigant amount of weight on, became aggressive, and had a few of my Beagles become incontinant on (Timberwolf). Fed Nutro Ultra for a while and had one dog shaking in the corner and fly biting - this is seizure like behavior but he has never had another episode like that, produced anything like this in his pups or grandpups - it was just a reaction from that food. Oddly, Nutro was always a trigger for my epileptic's seizures. I could go on with not just the dogs had loose stools or dull coats, but SERIOUS food related problems. Often I noticed that even the holistic foods I thought were of a better caliber would work for only a few dogs and the rest fell apart. 

So don't tell me or the OP or anyone else who chooses not to feed holistic foods that we are just simple, uneducated people, and if we'd only just read some internet articles, we'd see the light adn go buy a bag of Chicken Soup for the Widdle Fur Kiddies Soul. Every food I've bought based on ingredients - every single one - was a bust.


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## CrazyDog (Oct 16, 2007)

First off, I haven't read though the entire thread but I just wanted to say if Pro Plan works for your dog then stick with it. Pro Plan is one of the better grocery store brand foods. I have never fed Purina foods to my dog but my parents have always fed Pro Plan to their dogs and they are healthy and happy. I also know many very good breeders and lots of people who feed the food and no complains or problems with it.



TucksMom said:


> Well, I was at PetSmart getting more dog food and lo and behold- Pro Plan Selects, and one for puppy. The first listed ingredient: MEAT. So, I bought it. It was a couple of dollars more. What a concept- a reasonably priced dog food with MEAT as the first and foremost ingredient and not corn and the like.....So, now you don't have to break the bank to get a decent dog food.


As for the pricing Pro Plan is quite expensive for what it is and Pro Plan Selects is even more outrageously priced. *IMO you can find a better quality food for cheaper or about the same price.* In my area Petsmart and Petco sell Pro Plan for around $40+ for a 40lb bag and Pro Plan Selects for $46-$48 for a 40lb bag. I feed my dog Wellness Core and it cost $42 for the same size bag but the Wellness last twice as long because you don't have to feed as much of it as you would say Pro Plan. You can get any other foods like Innova, Solid Gold, Chicken soup etc. for around $38 to $48 for a large bag. Of coarse the smaller bags will be much cheaper but this is just my experiences. With all that said the better foods are better on the pocket book IME. 

Good Luck in your food search!


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## petstar (Dec 7, 2007)

LOL All this drama over dog food! 

I'll try to put this in perspective for you...There are millions of people living their lives on a horrible diet of overprocessed food, high in fat, full of artificial ingredients and preservatives, loaded with coloring and obtaining very little nutritive quality. They may look alright on the outside, but a nutritionist would tell you that they are not optimally healthy. 

I'm sure you could live an average life span eating McDonalds for breakfast lunch and dinner...you could also suffer complications from a bad diet and deal with serious health problems. In my opinion, Purina products are not among the "good" kibble selection. I would look for a grain free, by product free food that doesn't contain artificial coloring or preservatives. Try to imagine what your dog would be eating in the wild...(Brewer's rice? Dried Tomatoes? choline chloride? Selinium sulfate? Blueberries? monohydrochloride?) None of this part of a dog's natural diet, much the same way we are not able to process refined sugars and MSG makes some people ill, or lactose in over processed cows milk causes an allergy. 

Only you can decide what is best for "your baby" If you choose to take the advice of one or two disgruntled people who are misinformed and fanatical in their ignorance...then so be it. However, if you're open to learning more about canine nutrition (a subject that has been thoroughly studied) then do some research, seek out those who have experience with dog nutrition and find out exactly what you are feeding your dog. 

You asked for opinions, and this is mine.


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> its not rude. its coming from people who researched these things. i own my own business making low allergen all natural healthy dog treats. therefore, i looked into this topic for a long time trying to educate myself. it has nothing to do with how much you spend either, i dont know why you cant understad that. if i can find a cheap food thats QUALITY, yeah i would feed it. but i havent found it yet. the food i recently switched to was CHEAPER than the food i was perviously feeding, and i feel the ingredients are better. *shrug* if you can take constructive criticizm then this isnt a good place to be. go to petsmart or something if you want someone to tell you how GREAT the food is that youre feeding. you wont find it from me. personally, if you dont take a chance and switch up a diet to see IF it could be better, then why bother with this post. people are TRYING to educate you a little on ingredients and enlighten you, but as we have seen many times before, some people just dont get it, or wont. either way....





petstar said:


> LOL All this drama over dog food!
> 
> I'll try to put this in perspective for you...There are millions of people living their lives on a horrible diet of overprocessed food, high in fat, full of artificial ingredients and preservatives, loaded with coloring and obtaining very little nutritive quality. They may look alright on the outside, but a nutritionist would tell you that they are not optimally healthy.
> 
> ...


No one here is being rude. I completely agree with GreatDaneMom and think there is some good advice in this thread. 

If you want to feed that food, that's great keep with it. But don't make a thread asking such a question and get upset when you don't hear what you want.

Many members here including me, Greatdanemom, Petstar, and several others I could name off, have done a large amount of research when it comes to dog food and what is best for them. Some things simply aren't healthy. As said above you can eat what ever you want and look alright. But you don't have the energy, strength and by all means aren't as healthy on the inside as you could be if you were eating healthy. 

You don't have to feed an expensive food; it has nothing to do with how much it costs or being number one owner of the year. *I want to know where people pull this from*. Even eukanuba is a better food than Pro plan and they sell that at petsmart too. We're not telling you to change anything, but giving you information on what would be better. Which is what you asked for.



> I am feeding my new 18 week mini dach Pro Plan puppy along with a little canned food. *I just want to make sure this is a good dog food because Tucker is so small *(2.8 pounds). I do plan to cut out the canned food in about a week if possible. I do not want him to put on TOO MUCH weight....


You don't ask people on a forum a question and then turn back around and tell them to stop. You're never going to hear everything you want, stay learn, give advice, let other people learn. But next time you make a thread, no matter what it's about, don't get upset when you read something you don't want to or don't agree with.


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## jenns (Feb 16, 2007)

UrbanBeagles said:


> We had hounds that tended to be hypoglycemic in the field on certain foods (Evolve), foods that one of the dogs lost a signifigant amount of weight on, became aggressive, and had a few of my Beagles become incontinant on (Timberwolf). Fed Nutro Ultra for a while and had one dog shaking in the corner and fly biting - this is seizure like behavior but he has never had another episode like that, produced anything like this in his pups or grandpups - it was just a reaction from that food. Oddly, Nutro was always a trigger for my epileptic's seizures. I could go on with not just the dogs had loose stools or dull coats, but SERIOUS food related problems. Often I noticed that even the holistic foods I thought were of a better caliber would work for only a few dogs and the rest fell apart.
> 
> .


Well since you are a breeder, I hope these dogs that you speak about having such severe reactions to all these brands of kibble are not the ones you are breeding. Sorry but these "SERIOUS food related problems" cannot be blamed on brands of kibble, there is something else going on there. Your experiences do not sound normal for average healthy dogs regardless of what you are feeding.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

UrbanBeagles said:


> *I'm sorry, but you are doing nothing but making assumptions that those of us who do not feed holistic diets have not spent any time educating ourselves on canine nutrition.*


thats funny seeing as how i dont feed holistic myself, so why would i make any assumptions. and if someone has not spent ANY TIME EDUCATING THEMSELVES then i dont see how its rude to give my opinion. IMHO if you have not spent ANY time looking into canine nutrition then why should YOU be able to decide whats good for your dog. there has to be some level of research to properly take care of ANY animals nutritional needs.



jenns said:


> Well since you are a breeder, I hope these dogs that you speak about having such severe reactions to all these brands of kibble are not the ones you are breeding. Sorry but these "SERIOUS food related problems" cannot be blamed on brands of kibble, there is something else going on there. Your experiences do not sound normal for average healthy dogs regardless of what you are feeding.


yeah i wouldnt be breeding a dog with a history of seizures


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## Motebi (Apr 8, 2008)

There's the "Holistic Gang" and then there's the "Junk Food Gang".  

Me ? I feed a species appropriate diet: RAW !


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