# New food: Canidae/EVO/Wellness??



## MarleyBoy (Dec 24, 2007)

Hi all - looking for some advice about switching to an adult food for our dog. He's currently on Wellness puppy and looks/acts great. We were looking into Canidae, EVO, and Wellness as options. The EVO seems to be extremely high in protein - twice the amount in either Wellness or Canidae. Since our dog is a large breed dog (Bernese Mtn Dog/Golden Retriever mix) - is this an issue to be concerned about? He is about a year old now. Also - not sure about the grain-free debate. It seems like there is a lot going on back and forth and it seems very similar to the human carb/no carb debate or fad diet. I mean, we don't exactly own a wolf here.... Any thoughts would be welcome.
thanks!


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## Equestiana (Aug 8, 2007)

Hey,
I tried grain free and it didnt work for my dogs. They had very runny stools, I think the protein was just to much for their tummies. I'm currently switching to Canidae, so far they are doing OK. It's only been about a week and their stools are slowly starting to firm. It depends on the dog, some do really well on grain free some dont


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## Lovemytessapoo (Feb 1, 2008)

Switched my dog several weeks ago to Canidae and am very pleased about it. It is only carried by feed stores and a couple of high end pet stores in my area, but the price is very reasonable considering that you feed less. My dogs stools are firm and regular. No problems noted at all. I have spoken to several dog breeders and a vet who told me they highly recommend Canidae and the breeders use it themselves. Good luck with your switch.


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## MarleyBoy (Dec 24, 2007)

thanks to you both! I think we will give the Canidae a try. Do you ever alternate the brands for variety - or is that bad for the dog's digestion?


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Some people rotate between a few quality brands. I've been giving Canidae ALS to both my girls and it's working well.


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## Equestiana (Aug 8, 2007)

for rotating i think it depends on the dogs stomach. My dogs are sensative and wouldnt react well to rotating but its great for other dogs. gives them variety


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

I would check out Back to Basics. It is a higher quality version of Canidae, although Canidae is a good food too. You can go to their website and see what you think. www.backtobasicspetfood.com They actually direct ship the food to your house or you can go to a store.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

I agree that Canidae is a good quality food. I'm not as familiar with the other ones you mentioned, but I haven't heard of any issues with them. 

As far as alternating foods is concerned, the problem with that is you expose your dog to different proteins and that may lead to food allergies. Food allergies are not common, but they aren't so rare either. So why chance them?

If your dog is happy with whatever adult food you switch him to, seems to be thriving on it, and shows no health problems, there is no reason to alternate different ones. Dogs really don't need variety.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

My dogs do best when I rotate their food, but that doesn't mean your dog will....it's an individual thing. You can give it a try if you like. My dogs do great on Canidae. It's a very high-quality food, and I'm impressed with the ingredient list and the company itself. They test each batch for melamine, acetaminophen, and.....a bunch of other harmful stuff. I just found that out, and I'm very impressed. I wonder how many other dog food companies test for so many things.


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## Gypsy22 (Feb 17, 2008)

My 12 week old puppy is on Canidae and overall I see a big improvement though she wants to mooch people food (our fault). I am cutting out all people food except for RARE treats. I may get some canned Canidae to mix in as a treat.
It helped her poop BIG TIME...

You can go to their website and enter your zipcode and find who sells it in your area. I live in 'no where' VT/NH and we have several dealers of it, so I am sure you can find it in your area or order online. (Amazon sells it).


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## MarleyBoy (Dec 24, 2007)

Thanks everyone - I think I'll keep Marley on the same thing as long as I don't see any problems (or hear any complaints... )



Must Love Belle said:


> I would check out Back to Basics. It is a higher quality version of Canidae, although Canidae is a good food too. You can go to their website and see what you think. www.backtobasicspetfood.com They actually direct ship the food to your house or you can go to a store.


Belle - Back to the Basics looks good, but it seems that corn is the second ingredient, with which I wouldn't be happy. Also, the daily feeding for a dog Marley's size would be about 4 cups, in comparison to Canidae, which is about 2 1/2 cups. That's a pretty big difference. Back to Basics was given a 3 star rating on the Dog Food Analysis vs. a 5 star rating for Canidae. I think I'll probably go for the Canidae which seems like a great food for the money. thanks though!!

Back to Basics: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=349&cat=all

Canidae:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=528&cat=all


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

I understand your concern, but I'd love for you to tak a look at this and give me your thoughts. 
Corn is Good for your Dog?

Corn is an easy ingredient to misunderstand because there are three different types of corn used in pet food; and their differences are drastic. Not surprisingly it was the “lamb and rice” pet foods that really began the anti corn campaign in pet food. These foods did a great job in grouping all types of corn together and only pointing out the qualities of low grade corn to make generalizations. This very effectively allowed the lamb and rice formulas to wipe out half their competition. You’ve got to admit; it was good marketing. Unfortunately it was just that, marketing. The only problem is that the pet public was done a disservice. 

The Worst Form of Corn:

Corn Gluten Meal- Corn gluten meal is NOT corn! It is a by product of corn and only used because it is a cheap way to add protein to a pet food. The catch is that while corn gluten meal test out at 60% protein it is a very low quality source of protein with low digestibility. An interesting note is that corn gluten meal is used as a weed killer. Yummy. 

The Second Worst Form of Corn:

Non Human Grade “Field Corn”- This corn will show up on an ingredient list as ground corn. The important thing to note is if the pet food is 100% Human Grade. If it is not human grade (most pet foods are not) then they are using cheap, low quality corn. This corn is Genetically Modified and grown for bulk rather than quality. Field corn is also full of toxins and is sprayed with a variety of chemicals. Remember that these chemicals go directly into your pet’s food.

The result of using Corn Gluten Meal and Non Human Grade Field Corn:

•	Toxins are consumed by your pet which can result in physical reactions very similar to food allergies
•	These forms of corn are cheap ingredients with low digestibility
•	Pet foods containing these forms of corn are putting their profit ahead of your animal’s health.



Healthy Corn:

Back to Basics Human Grade Food for Pets is one of the only holistic pet foods that use this very expensive ground sweet corn. 

Human Grade Corn- This is the corn that you and I buy at the grocery store. It is the highest quality and most expensive corn you can buy. This corn is grown for optimum digestibility (91% Digestible once ground), it is NON GMO (Genetically Modified), and it is not sprayed with any chemicals because it is grown for humans. Human grade sweet corn offers more nutrition than other grains. Take a look…


Human Grade Corn: 

•	More than just the King of Carbohydrates it is also one of the most digestible carbohydrates you can feed at 91% digestible!

•	Contains linoleic acid also known as Omega 6 fatty acid; this is an essential fatty acid. Other carbohydrates do not contain this essential element which prevents dry coats, hair loss, and poor wound healing.

•	Contains essential amino acids; lysine and tryptophan.

•	High in fiber; helps lower cholesterol levels, reduces risk of colon cancer, and is useful in lowering blood sugar levels in diabetic animals. 

•	High in Thiamin (Vitamin B1); used in the metabolism of carbohydrates

•	High in Pantothenic acid (Vitamin B5); helps with physiological functions

•	High in Folate (folic acid); helps the generation of new cells, helps in preventing heart disease as it prevents the buildup of homocysteine (an amino acid which over time can be linked to disease, folic acid breaks it down)

•	High in Vitamin C; helps fight against disease

•	Sweet Yellow Corn contains carotenoid, lutein; helps to fight against heart disease and macular degeneration (or eye degeneration).

Back to Basics is a family owned company that has been proudly using human grade corn, and improving the health of animals for over 12 years. Back to Basics has prospered based on it’s quality and the proof is in the animals that eat it. For Back to Basics it’s not about marketing…if we were into marketing instead of nutrition we would remove the corn and sell more food.


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## MarleyBoy (Dec 24, 2007)

Hi Belle - wow, that's great that they use real, human corn rather than cheap byproducts. It's funny, generally speaking, since corn is being pushed so heavily on the human diet (due to the unbelievable amounts of excess in our country produced by the government corn subsidies _my husband and I _try to avoid it in our foods as much as possible - with the exception of actual corn when in season! But it's harder than you would think given that corn shows up in almost everything we eat: high fructose corn syrup, corn starch, hydrogenated corn oil, etc. Therefore, I tend to be pretty suspicious of seeing corn on the menu since most animals to which it is routinely given can't even break it down (like cows, for example). So I figured that what's good for us, is probably good for Marley.  But what you have written does give pause for thought.


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

MarleyBoy said:


> Hi Belle - wow, that's great that they use real, human corn rather than cheap byproducts. It's funny, generally speaking, since corn is being pushed so heavily on the human diet (due to the unbelievable amounts of excess in our country produced by the government corn subsidies _my husband and I _try to avoid it in our foods as much as possible - with the exception of actual corn when in season! But it's harder than you would think given that corn shows up in almost everything we eat: high fructose corn syrup, corn starch, hydrogenated corn oil, etc. Therefore, I tend to be pretty suspicious of seeing corn on the menu since most animals to which it is routinely given can't even break it down (like cows, for example). So I figured that what's good for us, is probably good for Marley.  But what you have written does give pause for thought.


You make a good point about cows and not breaking corn down...the reason for that is because the outter coating of a corn kernel is impervious to stomach acid (it's actually the natural protection for the corn kernel). So if you and I popped corn kernels like pills; they would not break down. However, once corn is ground exposing the very digestible inner part of the corn, it is 91% digestible. Interesting, huh?  That's actually another ploy the "no corn" diets have used in the past. It's kind of gross but what they would say is look what happens when you eat corn on the cobb (a.k.a... you see in the next day in your...ya get the point). What they fail to mention is that is because it must be either ground or in our case chewed fully to get to the nutrients. I just thought it was interesting.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Must Love Belle said:


> it is NON GMO (Genetically Modified), and it is not sprayed with any chemicals because it is grown for humans. Human grade sweet corn offers more nutrition than other grains.


That's funny.....unless they buy organic sweet corn, it IS sprayed with pesticides. If produce was never sprayed with chemicals "because it is grown for humans", there wouldn't be any point to buying organic produce. And most sweet corn varieties ARE genetically modified to be sweeter. I'm sure using whole ground sweet corn is better than using feed corn or corn derivitives, but those particular claims seem a little off-base to me.


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## crazydays (Jul 24, 2007)

Hi Marley boy!!!!
Quick question- why not stick with a wellness for your pup?? You mentioned he was looking and doing great on it. I just switched my pup to Wellness Core and she is excellent- coat is gleeming. I chose to go to Wellness Core from Solid Gold. She did well on SG-no problems, but I wanted to move her into grainless at a moderate protein level. Very happy with this!!!!!!


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

The three most common food allergens in dogs are beef, dairy products, and wheat. Just about equal. So those are definitely sources that one would seem to want to stay away from.

Corn is often cited as number four - not nearly as bad as those three but still significant. The quality of the corn isn't the issue - even the corn that you and I would eat can cause an allergic reaction. 

So on the one hand, corn is a somewhat problematic ingredient no matter where it comes from, and since there are foods that don't contain it, why take chances? 

On the other hand, food allergies as a whole are not all that common. 

So in the end, it's your choice and if your dog isn't having any problems with a particular food, don't sweat it.


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

Must Love Belle said:


> I understand your concern, but I'd love for you to tak a look at this and give me your thoughts.
> Corn is Good for your Dog?
> 
> Corn is an easy ingredient to misunderstand because there are three different types of corn used in pet food; and their differences are drastic. Not surprisingly it was the “lamb and rice” pet foods that really began the anti corn campaign in pet food. These foods did a great job in grouping all types of corn together and only pointing out the qualities of low grade corn to make generalizations. This very effectively allowed the lamb and rice formulas to wipe out half their competition. You’ve got to admit; it was good marketing. Unfortunately it was just that, marketing. The only problem is that the pet public was done a disservice.
> ...



I actually find it interesting that you think some types of corn are good for dogs. No matter the kind it's bad and not easily digested. 

I think both EVO and Wellness are good, but I'm not a huge fan of Canidae. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty big on a no grain diet. I'm trying out Natural Balance Fish & Potato and so far I'm happy with it. Teddie has allergies and I was in need of a fish based kibble. 

I've actually been surprised at how many poeple like the Canidae.


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## MarleyBoy (Dec 24, 2007)

Hi Crazy Days - Actually, it ended up being down to the Wellness and the Canidae and in the end we just went with the Canidae since hands down it was the most widely recommended. I went back and forth on whether we wanted to try a grainless food. We tried a sample of the EVO red meat and he seemed to be very interested in it, but had mad diarrhea, so we decided against the grainless. As far as we know, he doesn't seem to have any allergies, so that wasn't an issue either way.


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## echo8287 (Jul 5, 2007)

I have rotated my pups food. I used Canidae for awhile, then Orijen,then Evo. They never got runny stools,but they did change in appearance. They are on some Evo now,small bites. When its gone I have some Evo red meat to try on them. I always changed very slowly adding a little of the new food each day for a week or so. David


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## Must Love Belle (Feb 16, 2008)

TeddieXRuxpin said:


> I actually find it interesting that you think some types of corn are good for dogs. No matter the kind it's bad and not easily digested.
> 
> I think both EVO and Wellness are good, but I'm not a huge fan of Canidae. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty big on a no grain diet. I'm trying out Natural Balance Fish & Potato and so far I'm happy with it. Teddie has allergies and I was in need of a fish based kibble.
> 
> I've actually been surprised at how many poeple like the Canidae.


According to "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition", 4th Edition," corn is *91% *digestible. This immediately dispels the myth that corn is not digestible. 

Please show me some information that shows that ground corn is not digested? Everything I have researched about human grade, ground corn completely supports that corn is very digestible. I would be very interested in your informational sources.



Willowy said:


> That's funny.....unless they buy organic sweet corn, it IS sprayed with pesticides. If produce was never sprayed with chemicals "because it is grown for humans", there wouldn't be any point to buying organic produce. And most sweet corn varieties ARE genetically modified to be sweeter. I'm sure using whole ground sweet corn is better than using feed corn or corn derivitives, but those particular claims seem a little off-base to me.


Non GMO means that is has not been Genetically Modified. Of course there are types of corn that are genetically modified, in the case of the corn used by Back to Basics it is not. As far as the pesticides used; there are many types of pesticides; some that are harmful and used for mass vegetable growth and those approved for products eaten by humans. Granted that organic ingredients are a great idea, albiet overrated in their overall effect on health. If we all ate very healthy, whole human grade ingredients we would be very healthy. If we switched to organic ingredients that would be great but it would not make a huge difference in our overall health and in most cases it is cost prohibitive.



Poly said:


> The three most common food allergens in dogs are beef, dairy products, and wheat. Just about equal. So those are definitely sources that one would seem to want to stay away from.
> 
> Corn is often cited as number four - not nearly as bad as those three but still significant. The quality of the corn isn't the issue - even the corn that you and I would eat can cause an allergic reaction.
> 
> ...


I respect that you seem to have a balanced view, which seem rare these days. Most people jump on the latest "fad train" and don't consider the big picture. So I think you probably have good information. I know that wheat is a more common allergen and beef is not very digestible but what I found aobut corn allergies was a little different; this is a quote from the "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition", 4th Edition," 

Of 200 confirmed cases of allergies, corn caused only 3. Let's think about this... to even confirm an allergy is rare. Of the few cases confirmed only 1.5% resulted from corn. In a survey of veterinary dermatologists, corn was not listed among the ingredients most often suspected to cause food allergies.


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