# Scent Article Breakthrough!



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

There is no one in my real life that will understand this, but today, my whippet finally began to understand scent articles! We have been tinkering with them for 2 years and she absolutely could not figure the game out. I would try for a period of time and then put the exercise away for weeks. Finally, she is using her nose! She finally understands why one "thing" is not like the other! It's so exciting!

It took me 10 minutes to teach this to my Amstaff. It took 3 sessions to teach it to my Staffybull. I KNOW that my whippet is smarter than my Amstaff, but for some reason, this exercise just eluded her. While we are not at the finished product, the foundation of the exercise is now in place. Very happy!


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

What a sweet picture. I can clearly see that her eyes are so much bigger than her nose. Just .. kinda .. stating the obvious here.

Congrats on the progress though, that's great.


----------



## Shep (May 16, 2013)

Congratulations! Breakthroughs always feel great, don't they?


----------



## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Congratulations!!!!! I love it when you can see them start to figure out what you're asking of them. I am so happy for you!!!!


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Thank you guys! I figured you'd understand!  

Her eyes certainly are much bigger (and more vital!) than her nose! But her nose is fully functional! She just sorta forgot about it for a long time! 

This dog is so, so soft! Not only were corrections off the table, I had to avoid frustration too! Sighthounds are special!!! They are smart, but they "see" the world differently!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Congrats!! Care to share your scent article game?


----------



## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Maybe scenting doesn't come easy to a sight hound???? I have Labs. All the ones I've tried get scenting right away. Congrads! Good on you for having the patience to keep trying.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Glad to, but it isn't very sophisticated! However, it did give me 2 very reliable dogs very quickly! (The whippet not included!) 



I fill one of these with cheese, meat, and dog treats. I scent the one I fill with my hands as well. At first, I just set the one tube down. When my dog brings it to me, I open it up and feed them from it. Then put it down again. Then I add a clean and empty tube. If my dog brings me the empty, I thank them and take it and wait for them to get the other "right" one. Then I open it up and feed them from it. Once they get reliable with two tubes, I keep adding more fairly quickly. If you look, one of my tubes has slightly different ends. That's the one I fill so I can tell if the dog is right. They don't seem to notice the difference visually.

My dogs are eager to bring me the tubes. They love the game. With my whippet, I ended up setting up little bowls. I would put food under only one of them. They I would let her "find" it. However, she always just eagerly flipped all of them like a little bowling ball. I tried holding down the tubes and marking when she smelled the right one, but she just kept fiercely trying to lift them up. She was so intense about it that I just gave up! Finally, she will use her nose now. Finally!!! 

My other 2 dogs made it look SO easy. Different breeds=different needs! I swear, she's really smart! But I couldn't show her what I wanted very well. That's all on me! 

By the way, there are a million ways to teach articles. There are pros and cons to all of them. I liked this one because there's never a correction and the learning is all done without actual articles.


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Neato!

So it's more of a find it game than a scent association game, right? I need to get some PVC and try this...


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Yup! Just a "find it" game. But really, that's all that the scent articles are (with a retrieve.) I have only trained two dogs with this, but both were successful very quickly and loved working scent articles. I only competed to a GO and a UD with one. The other died suddenly in May having only completed a CD.

Once my dogs are good at these PVC things, I switch immediately to the actual articles. In my limited experience, it was a super easy transition. Retrieving articles is WAY easier than these stupid things. The dogs are glad to be back to something that fits better in their mouth.

If your dog isn't into retrieving, you can use little boxes or containers or tins and do the same thing, except click and treat when the dog clearly indicates the right box. That way, you can teach the game without the retrieve. All of my dogs are hardcore retrievers, so I just went with this.


----------



## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Oh wow....that is SOOOOOOOO different than how I taught Lars to do scent articles. I just started with the metal articles and did the Click and Sniff method. 

http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTO210

Lars had the game figured out in about a week.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I think I clarified this a few times in my post, but I probably should do it again. This is how I started teaching my articles. However, it's is possible that my approach is, what's the scientific term? Whackadoo! Yeah, that's it! Whackadoo.

My "method" might be dangerously Whackadoo. If someone new to utility is looking for a method of teaching the articles, they probably should go with MrsBoats approach or the one promoted by their trainer. Leave the PVC pipes to the rookies!

When I started teaching the scent articles, the people I talked to had an ear-pinch forced retrieve and tie-downs and tied-togethers and a heaviliy scented #6 article. And they told me it would take months. It all made my head hurt. Plus, a friend of mine had followed the "true path" and was up to 12 loose articles and then couldn't get her dog off of the #6 article and onto a less handled one and she was so, so frustrated. In fact, she never set foot in a utility ring.

So, I had the tie down mat and the tie down peg board and I watched "Around the Clock" and then I said Screw It. I thought that if my dogs understood what I wanted, they would just do it. Thus, the PVC pipes. And for me, it worked really well. But my dogs are eager and they all retrieve like fiends and they none of them minded retrieving the "wrong" PVC, even if they had to bring back all 5 before they were right. It worked for me, but I am sure that there is risk involved with it.

My articles held up well in the ring. It took us 9 tries to get a UD, but it was signals and go-outs that tangled us up. In the 9 tries, we had one wrong article, and even then, he picked up the right one and then traded it for the wrong one. Articles weren't our nemesis! But that still doesn't mean that the PVC is a good idea. It's just one I like and one my whippet is now starting to understand.

I would feel awful if my approach messed up someone's dog!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks for the explanation trainingjunkie! I for one thought it would be a cool game to play with my dog, nothing more or less.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I will be very interested to hear how long it takes for your dog to figure it out! Have fun!


----------



## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Real quick, I bet! He already knows to find toys on cue, regular and with food in them. And we do a homemade version of nosework; he's trained on black pepper and alerts by sitting when he finds it. So using his nose is no new thing. It might take me a while to get PVC or another set of containers that'll work for the game. But I will be sure to let you know how it goes when it happens!


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

> My "method" might be dangerously Whackadoo.





> I would feel awful if my approach messed up someone's dog!


I'm a little confused by your cautionary stance. Honestly, I don't see your method as either dangerous, whackadoo, or having much potential at all of messing up someone's dog. It's allowing the dog the freedom of choice. Don't retrieve the right one ? no biggie, only the chance for reinforcement has been lost, which happens quite often during any R+ training (although I *might* give the dog a mild nrm after the first incorrect response by ceasing to smile, relaxing my 'feet together' body position and turning / looking slightly to the side etc. Not sure if I'd allow the dog to bring all five without some form of extra-curricular communication). 

If anything, I'd be more concerned with messing up someone's dog by suggesting the use of tie downs, physical corrections, ear pinches and the like. That, I could see.


On a bit of a sidenote, what does cause me slight concern is the manner in which the holes are drilled into the dowel portion of the pvc. Theoretically, it could catch a tooth, which could turn into catastrophe. Myself, I'd prefer to drill holes into the end caps and make sure the 'articles' are spaced a good distance from each other to begin with.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I just don't want to be accountable for anyone else's experience! 

The holes are far too small for a tooth to get caught, at least with the dogs that I have. I suppose small breed dogs would be different, but then, these dowels would be very uncomfortable for them. Certainly a consideration for those with small breed dogs.

I can see your point about a NRM, but I didn't chose to use it. I just let them bring back 5. My thought was that they couldn't tell the difference between the objects so they wouldn't be able to understand the NRM. It's interesting to watch them get it right several times in a row and then just "brain-blow" on later attempts. Arousal, fatigue, lack of "true" understanding, experimentation? Who knows. When I transfer to the actual articles, I definitely would use a NRM and re-start the exercise. I wouldn't let them charge the pile. But as long as it's PVC, they can have at it. I switch to the articles as soon as I am confident that they "get" it.

My primary reason for the caution is because no one else in my area (that I know of) trains this exercise in this manner and I assume that there is a good reason for this. I'm just not sure what it is.


----------



## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Looks like something I could do with Kris this winter when it is too cold to be outside. Right now, I tell her "get your toy" and she will run and find it and get it and bring it to me, or her ball, so I think she would pick it up fairly quickly. She does use her nose a lot and if there was a nosework class in our area, I would do that with her but there are no classes. I know there are a few that are going to start on the scent discrimination for Utility and they are going to use the tie-down method but as I doubt I will ever get that far, I would rather just play at it your way.


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

> I just don't want to be accountable for anyone else's experience!


Compared with SOME of the 'bad' advice given by people over the internet? this is nothing, lol. You're merely stating what worked for you, and imo, it's quite innocuous. Anyone who is fearful of messing up their dog, assumingly in the competition sense, would have enough experience at that stage of the game to make an informed and intelligent decision that fits well with themselves and their particular dog. However, I do appreciate your concern for others, I just think it's a little too much on the side of unnecessary paranoia.



> My primary reason for the caution is because no one else in my area (that I know of) trains this exercise in this manner and I assume that there is a good reason for this. I'm just not sure what it is.


 I'm not sure what it is either. But I suspect it's strictly a case of personal preference, perhaps with a bias towards old school, stuck in the 50's, head-up-their-arse aversives. Look at it this way. Maybe you're a regional pioneer.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I love my new title! Paranoid Regional Pioneer!  I'll take it!


----------



## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

trainingjunkie said:


> My "method" might be dangerously Whackadoo. If someone new to utility is looking for a method of teaching the articles, they probably should go with MrsBoats approach or the one promoted by their trainer. Leave the PVC pipes to the rookies!


I want to clarify that I didn't think what you were doing was in any way wrong! I'm known to train things really unconventionally because of how Lars thinks. I love it when people do things differently than "We've always taught it this way..." I have never, ever seen anyone teach articles like the PVC method you have. If it works...who cares! 

When I was teaching articles...everyone was asking me how I was going to teach it. The tie down method?? I could see Lars tearing the articles from the board! A lot of people around here train in ways to build drive in their dogs...I don't have that problem, so I train things in ways that work with the drive I have. Lots of people put food on stantions for go outs...If I tried that, Lars would charge out there and smash his way into the fence looking for the food. I sent him to a box...and with his drive, just going to the box as a job was motivating enough.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

We're all good! I didn't feel attacked! That is not your style!

I just got to over-thinking and worried that I might create a problem for someone new to obedience. Petpeeve is right though! Anyone teaching articles is probably far enough along to make up their own minds.

Really, I didn't feel attacked! I promise, I never put food on stanchions either for the exact same reason! Gator most certainly would have taken them out! Gator and Lars are dangerously similar.


----------

