# my take on dog food



## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

this was taken from another post topic and i just wanted to put my .02 worth in on this;



> if i were you, i would try and see where you can save a few extra bucks each month and get a good food, as oppossed to just giving them something average for awhile. its really not as expensive as you think, b/c the worse the food, the more the dog needs to eat, and the faster you go through it.


my dogs eat Purina One...have for yrs w/ the exception of "trying something better" here and there....i tried Canidae, Iams, Eukenuba, NB, and a couple others.....on every one of the other brands my dogs increased their intake by anywhere from 1-2 1/2 c more per dog, per day....their coats looked like hell and they were quite mellow (BC and mellow should not go in the same sentence together).....i'll stay w/ P.O. .....it works for mine and if it ain't broke, don't fix it....right?

i really get tired of people that throw around that "crap" of "if you loved your dogs you'd be feeding them (? [food that cost $50/37.5#]) when they don't even know my dogs.....


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

I can only respectfully disagree with you.

As the owner presently of 9 rescue dogs, all on Timberwolf or Blue Buffalo, I can honestly say that the food makes the dog.

Just as if you were on a total McDonald's or other junk food diet, you also would not do well. Your skin would lack the luster and suppleness it should have, your immune system would be compromised, your nutrition would be lacking and show up in your energy levels, etc.

If you do not eat a healthy diet, you don't feel good, that is not my opinion, it is a medical fact.

Same with any animal...if you feel them preservatives, corn, filler foods and meal from who knows what part of a sick animal...there is not much nutritional value in any of it.

So, how can the dog work at a high level, have energy or look good?

Energy and coat luster come from within, not from coat sprays, conditioners or shampoos or any other spray, it comes from nutrition that you can ONLY get from a good food.

Now, the other foods lesser quality, will sustain them, but I am willing to bet, that those that feed a lower quality dog food have more skin issues, digestive problems, constipation, lower immune system and more problems that need to be seen by a vet.

In the last 15 years, I have not had a dog that was mine (not a rescue) to the vet for any reason other than routine rabies or BP .

The food I feed is helping them remain healthy and live a long happy life.

I am pretty open minded and am willing to listen to any rebuttals you may want to post on the subject...but I really believe that in your heart, you do not believe that GOOD food is not an important part of being a responsible pet owner and helping your dog be the best he can be.

I realize that economics plays a huge part in what people feed their pets, but IMO, you do the best you can and if you need to eat out once a week versus twice a week to be able to afford a better feed, then you do it.

Just my 2 cents worth!


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

While I agree that it is your dog, your decision, I have to disagree about the food.

Moose was on pedigree and he used to shed like CRAZY! When i got him, I switched him to canidae, and the ahedding pretty much stopped. He now lives back with Eriks mom and is back on pedigree and when you touch him you get covered in fur.

I do spend 40 on a 40 lb bag of canidae and my dogs are happy on it.

I know that the pet store foods are not the greatest food, but if its working for your dogs, I dont see a huge problem.

But the ones that arent made with corn are def. better, that really cant be argued.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

I believe tirluc is saying that he *IS* feeding good food. I must admit when I adopted Coco her coat was the best of any dog I've adopted. She was fed Purina One. I say if they're getting the results they want, more power to 'em.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

harrise said:


> I believe tirluc is saying that he *IS* feeding good food. .


Not so sure Purina One is considered a high end dog food, or am I reading his post wrong?


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, trying to interpret for someone is not my specialty. I took the post as saying he gets better results from the "low end" Purina One versus some other "high end" foods. Intake went up, coats wet lackluster, and energy dropped so the switch back to Purina One was a no brainer for tirluc. 

I could of course be wrong. I wouldn't put it past me...


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

About the feeding less on a "better" food...I haven't found that to be true either. I've tried a variety of different foods and my dogs ate _more_ of all of the premium foods I tried. The food they were able to eat the least of and still maintain weight was Purina One. I had my dogs on PO for a long time and I have no complaints about it, though I admit the ingredients gross me out, which is why I recently experimented with foods again, trying to find something with better sounding ingredients but not breaking the bank. I'm having the same results as last time I shopped around for food, feeding more, bigger poops, soft poops. I've come to the conclusion that I spend waaay too much time thinking about dog food...more time than I spend thinking about what to feed my kids and much more than I spend thinking about what I eat myself. I don't get it...I don't get all the passion on this subject.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

sheltiemom said:


> I don't get all the passion on this subject.


Well, I can respond for myself ...as far as being passionate about good food.

I have seen what junk food does to humans ~ ~ ~ ~ and animals. 

I've sen UTIs, skin problems, compromised immune systems, increased vet bills, lack of energy, moodiness, lack of desire to play, attention span, tendon and muscle injuries, no interest in learning, coat problems, mouth odor, digestive problems and not to mention weight problems, all disappear when I switch a rescue to a good food.

If I keep the dog for any length of time, it is amazing to see what good food and a little care will do.

Once the dog goes to a new home, I always give a bag of whatever food he is presently getting, to the new owners.

I normally follow up with them in about 3-6 months just to see how the dog is doing.

In 100% of the dogs that are still on the same food, they are all doing well.

In 100% of the dogs that had been switched to something of a lesser quality, all had skin or digestive issues and probably had other things going on, that were not yet noticed.

Of course, that is only on a test study of maybe 30 dogs, but still, in my opinion, from what I have seen, I am convinced. Just as I am convinced when I see kids on a junk food diet that look unhealthy , no energy, etc.

I am as convinced and passionate about good healthy food for myself and want no less for my canine companions.

To each their own and I don't judge anyone for feeding a lower quality food for whatever reason, I do judge a closed mind.


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## harrise (Jan 9, 2008)

Pasofino said:


> To each their own and I don't judge anyone for feeding a lower quality food for whatever reason, I do judge a closed mind.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

I used to feed mine dog food (Purina One, Nutro) and loved them then just as much as I love them now. Having lost my previous GSD to degenerative myelopathy, I'm willing to do just about anything to avoid that again and eliminating grains from the diet is just not that difficult or expensive, despite what the grain-based dog food companies and their sales reps would have you believe.


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## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

i don't really honestly see much of an "issue" with people feeding lower foods UNLESS we are talking alpo and kibbles and bits type foods. Purina one never struck me as a bad food. My old cat used to eat it and did fine, great coat, wieght personality etc.

i think its more about the individual DOG and not the FOOD. I have four dogs with very different breed background. I have tried many foods and not everydog thrived on one food. Iam currently feeding two types. 

My point is there is no perfect food for everydog. I think experimenting and deciding is fine, no matter what you pick.

Its the not trying others and just staying put that should iritate people.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

Criosphynx said:


> Its the not trying others and just staying put that should iritate people.


Yes, that pretty much sums up what I was trying to say!

At least give it a try, don't say it is fru fru to try a higher end food...who knows, it MAY be better for your dog!

I guess I feel the same way when I see kids eating at McDonalds every night .....or eating cereal bars for breakfast every morning along with a coke....


OK, I admit it, I am a food snob!


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

im really only responding b/c im almost 100% positive that you are quoting a response I gave to a post. i in no way stated that you didnt love your dogs. do people who let their dogs get obese not love their dogs? no they love them so much that they are killing them. you asked for opinions on a public forum about food. i understand that YOU dont see the need to feed better, but that doesnt change science and facts. like others said, you can do what you want, it doesnt make it the right choice. 

im not sure what you do for a living or your living situation, but ill tell you a bit about mine. im 23, work at a dog kennel 35 hours/week for 13 bucks an hour. thats below poverty level, and i feed canidae. feeding anything like po, k and b, sd, alpo, royal kanin, etc, never even came into my mind. so when people tell me they dont feed for financial reasons i laugh b/c i am poor and can do it. i did exactly what i told you and BEFORE i got a dog i sat down and did the math and figured out where i was spending more than i needed, so that i could afford to give my dog a decent food. i bought a 40lb bag in the beginning of may, and it lasted me until this last weekend. thats 2 months on the same bag. i dont know what type of dogs you have, but most bigger dogs do not need more than 2-4 cups daily when fed a high quality food. you mention your dogs did worse on the good food, and the one thing i will say is that i bet you didnt stay on the food long enough. it is normal when switching foods (especially a lower quality like PO, to a higher like canidae) for the dog to take awhile to adjust, usually about 1-2 months. if all you did was keep them on for a couple of days or weeks, then you didnt give it enough of a try. when all they eat is crappy food, and a lot of the ingrediants in that food arent even digestible, you can bet it will take time for them to get used to something that is actually good for them. same exact thing with people.

honestly, i dont need to know your dogs to tell you they would benefit from a good diet, because every dog can benefit. you can give yourself every excuse you want to make your choice seem justified, but you are only hurting your dogs in the end. im not saying this to be mean, but i really urge you to educate yourself a little better on dog food. you even said you tried a better brand like Iams, which is one of the worst brands.


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## fyzbo (Jun 19, 2008)

One of my dog has a sensitive stomach. When we brought her home from the spca we transitioned her onto canidae. Her stomach was constantly upset and she always had diaharea. After two large bags we realized it wasn't getting any better. We went back to the local pet food store which focuses on "high quality" dog food, they made a recommendation. This went on and on, each time giving her two large bags to adjust and no improvement, that's actually how I found this forum looking for dog food suggestions.

Reading someones posts on dog chow made me try buying food elsewhere. The next time I was at sam's club I bought a bag of eukanuba(I think). It was half the price of every "high quality" food I bought at the pet food store. She is about half way through witht he bag and I already see significant improvement. Finally no more diaharea!

I am still going to experiment to find her the best food possible, so recommendations are welcome, but I still wonder... if canidae, innova, etc. are so much better, why doesn't the big name brands steal their formula? Why don't all the petstores carry it? We live in a market where the best product often does best.

I'm not saying canidae is a bad food, my last dog did wonderful on it, just saying these "high quality" foods are definitely not the best for every dog out there.


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

with all the different types and brands of "high" quality foods, i believe that every dog can do well on something other than a crappy food with terrible ingrediants. 

top person asked many whys. why dont other companies steal their firmula? b/c they do it cheaper, thus making more profit. they also arent exactly seeing a change in their slaes due to most people ignorance on the subject, so why should they change. why dont major stores carry them? it is probably too expensive. im sure petsmart sells way more crappy food then good food (for example, when i fed iams, they were out of it a lot, but they were never out of natural balance when i fed that). so smart business tells them not to carry an item that doesnt sell. petcos and petsmart are kind of aimed at a demographic that wants the cheapest stuff. look around next time, the treats, the toys, the food, most of it is cheap and thats what the people who shop there buy. if you go to a private dog shop, they probably have a coompletely different customer base.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

Well said Purplex....

If Canidae did not work for you fyzbo , it very well could be that your guy has allergies to chicken, or lamb or whatever protein source was used in the food you gave him.

It is not so much the protein source, as the hormones and antibiotics that are sometimes used in feeding the animal used for the food. 

You may have to try a few to find out.

Maybe Try California Natural, it only 3 ingredients, Lamb, rice and oil....that is it.

The kibble are fairly large, so I am not that fond of it, but it is a good food.

Petfooddirect.com is a great online pet food place...they often have online coupons for their food and if you are in a remote area, it helps to have access to good food all the time.

A lot of pet food companies will send you some sample food packets, so try that and see if you can find a god food for your pup.

Good luck....


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

Anyone who has read any post I have ever made about dog food will know I too am a strong advocate for "better" foods.
For me, its raw that I see as the best, and anything less in my mind is... well, not the best.
That being said.
I agree 100% with Tirluc on this one. ( Very contradicting I know)

And here is why.
Of my 4 dogs, one of them is a Border Collie ( as Tirluc is talking about in the OP)
He does NOT do well on raw, grainfree, holistic... you name it, I've tried it.
Raw, I swear almost killed him, he was having his EIC (or malignant hypothermial attacks) much more frequently after less activity. SO, pulled him off the raw.
On to, Wellness then to Canidae, Solid Gold (both BATM &WK), then Orijen, then Chicken soup for the Dog lovers soul, then Fromm's, EVO... the list kinda goes on and on.
He was NOT doing well ( and yes I waited a while between all the switches, all in all we are talking over a period of 2+ years)
NO matter what he was eating, he did the best on Pedigree of all things.
Now he is doing well ( not Pedigree good but) on Kirkland Lamb and rice.
Its not the best food out there, by all means, but for MEIKO, it is.

Until you have a dog or dogs on the other end of the spectrum of the "whats best" debates, one really has no ground to stand on dictating what is best for every dog and seriously has balls to point fingers at others for what they have found that works for their dogs.

Truth is, no food is best for every dog. Not even raw ( which I too had a hard time believing)

While I too would be quick to say, "Purina One?? Oh my, the CORN the CORN" and so on usually followed by a break down of each ingredient and what it is responsible for health wise, the fact is... Purina One works in Tirluc's situation, and Kirkland works in mine.

perhaps its something to do with Border Collies? who knows? but these dogs in question do BEST on a grainy food, end of story.
To insist that they be on holistic which will make them not preform at their best, feel like crap, look like crap and so on, IMHO is far more dangerous than a life time on a "lower end" food.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

Wimble Woof, while I agree with you that not all dogs should eat a specific brand of food, I do think that all dogs need a balanced, preservative free, chemical free diet. (anyone does for that matter!)


As far as a raw diet, I 100% agree with you , it is the best...but myself, being a vegetarian, tried it for 3 months and just could not do it any more! I DO wish I coudl have stuck with it...dogs on the BARF diet look awesome and feel great.

So, that being said....Purina One may do well for your dog or Tirluc's dog, that is fine.

People also exist on junk food, kids exist on the bare minimum of nutrition in some cases...people in 3rd world countries exist on almost no nutrition...but, that is not the point..

My only point is to say that the dog foods with ethoxyquin and other preservatives, fillers and by-products in them are just not a healthy way to feed your dog. It is not just my opinion or passion, it is a scientific fact.

So, I realize that some people do not care, they eat hydrogenated oils, fast foods and tons of sugar, that is fine for them....nothing wrong with it, to each their own. They either don't care or are not educated on the subject.

Each person has their own passion, mine is nutrition...I don't push "vegetarianism" on anyone, it is not for everyone...I am not pushing high end dog food on anyone, just making them aware. 

It is the "not believing that it is better" part that I don't understand, ..not the "I don't use it part"


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

But when your dog does not do well on it, how could you believe it is better? 
Thats my point.
Over a course of many hundred years perhaps certain dogs have adapted to grainy foods, containing things such as corn and triving on it??
I firmly stand that dogs and wolves have the same nutritional needs, that is why I am baffled that one of mine does not do well.
And this is what made me take a step back and rethink my firm belief/ research and understanding of nutrition.

I too am very interested in feeding the best I possibly can to my dogs, however, to say that what Meik or Tirlucs dogs are eating is nothing more than junk that will kill them... thats just plain wrong.
Its not safe to assume that people are being ignorant to the facts on nutrition and are uneducated in the area as some are extremely educated, yet education doesnt do much when in the end it just doesnt work right?

Meiks blood panels come back in normal range every year and always have, so his foods are not affecting anything in that aspect, he has the energy he should have for his breed ( and not the crazy "sugar rush" that dogs on pedigree and the like are known to get) he has full out stamina, he doesnt pass out hardly at all anymore, so there is no doubt in my mind that him eating the food he is on is indeed benifical to HIM.
Do I feed it to the other 3? No, they have their own specific diets that cater to each idividual dog.
Perhaps excessive? But thats just how I choose to do things around here, one eats Orijen and raw, the 2 others strictly raw ( prey model)
I have the finances and time to do this, so this is what I do. 
I dont think others should all do this, although it would be nice, but that would be "my perfect world"


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

I have a friend whose border collies are doing fine on raw, have been for years. Active dogs need more calories in relation to protein. Too much protein vs calories can cause coat dullness and other issues - it amounts to a fat deficiency. A fat deficiency can be prevented by adding either fat or carbohydrate to the diet. Dog feed manufacturers prefer carbs because they are cheaper. The problem with carbohydrate is that it's absorbed into the blood stream as sugar and in that form causes subtle damage to blood vessels and organs that adds up over the months and years to produce systemic inflammatory disease and diabetes. IMO it's more healthful in the long run to feed the dog a balanced, minimally processed source of fat rather than carbohydrate as the source of energy.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

Wimble Woof said:


> I too am very interested in feeding the best I possibly can to my dogs, however, to say that what Meik or Tirlucs dogs are eating is nothing more than junk that will kill them... thats just plain wrong.


I do have more to say, but am on my way to a meeting, just had to address this part of your post.


Junk as you say it, is not my opinion, maybe a harsh word and I apologize for that... but it is filled with preservatives, chemicals and other nutrients that are harmful...not by my sayso, but proven scientific fact. 

NOT that is is not OK for him to eat and that he will not thrive, but it is nutritionally deficient on so many levels...

There is a much better food out there that is nutritionally better, lots of them, not just one....
So, if he is not doing well on one, do some research on the ingredients and choose one.

IMO - the way to handle this would be to find out WHAT the problem is rather than keep trying to blame it on food. He may have some issue that is totally not related to the food he is eating..

Anyway, I need to run, so I am babbling...


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

Trust me, its been done. I tweaked around with his raw when he was eating it, but it just was horrible.
Again, this guy does have excersise induced collapse.. something that was genetically passed down to him, his needs because of this have proven to be different.
I wasnt lumping all Border Collies into my little stand up for Tirluc rant... just these ones in particular seem to be this way.
I cant speak on behalf of Tirluc completely as I do not know of everything that was tried in that situation *shrugs shoulders*

There does come times when the obvious does not apply.



Pasofino said:


> NOT that is is not OK for him to eat and that he will not thrive, but it is nutritionally deficient on so many levels...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## fyzbo (Jun 19, 2008)

Pasofino said:


> Well said Purplex....
> 
> If Canidae did not work for you fyzbo , it very well could be that your guy has allergies to chicken, or lamb or whatever protein source was used in the food you gave him.
> 
> ...


I did the california natural, same effect. Played with the meat source. So far the best food as been one sold at Sam's club of all places. Big companies like iams and purina have lots of research behind their food, they may not be the best, but hardly the worst.

If you look at human diet it's varied so much. Asians don't do well eating only meat and potatos whereas many people with slavic origins couldn't handle a diet of sushi, rice, and noodles. What is to say every dog is the same? Perhaps these "high quality" foods that you can only find in specialty stores are better, like comparing caviar to macaroni and cheese, but whos to say some dogs can't handle caviar and would rather the mac'n cheese?


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

Really great posts Wimble...I know you're hard core raw and I'd never heard about the issues you've had with your BCs before...I completely agree with you that uneducated and unwilling to try things is the problem much more than feeding certain foods in general.


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## Pasofino (Apr 10, 2008)

Fyzbo - excellent point:



> Asians don't do well eating only meat and potatos whereas many people with slavic origins couldn't handle a diet of sushi, rice, and noodles. What is to say every dog is the same?


The only thing I can add is that if any of the different origins of people were to try another's origins type of food, then it may cause an upset or not agree with them at all. 

That is because their history has been for generations, one type of food and it is almost an innate thing that the only kind of food they can tolerate is what they have been getting through the generations of family.

As in dogs, they have been domesticated for SO long and fed what we want to feed them, grains included, that I cannot imagine that any particular breed as a WHOLE cannot tolerate a specific food.

I will agree that a specific DOG may not be able to tolerate certain things...it very well could be the chemical in it or is could be the chemical that was given to the protein source BEFORE it was used a food.

I am a firm believer that any whole food, not sprayed with pesticides and chemicals will work for almost any dog , or human for that matter.

If we feed our dogs WHOLE foods only, raw or not, in my own experience, they do wonderfully....even dogs with horrible histories of allergies.

I had a rescue that could not eat any kibble, without terrible bouts of vomiting, scratching, watering eyes and more symptoms that I could handle.

The vet tried everything, nothing worked...

So I made his food, with nothing but whole foods, organic, no additives at all, including veggies fruits and just chicken, boiled....he was "cured" within 3 weeks and never had those symptoms again.

He was adopted out and did have to stay on that homemade meal regime for the rest of his life, but it did prove to me..that food makes all the difference in the world.

Now, that being said, there is no way I can "cook" for all my dogs, it is just not possible nor is is economically affordable for me....so I do the second best thing, feed a higher end dog food.

I just know in my heart, how important food is. I am still open to suggestions though!


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## LucyGoosy (Mar 19, 2008)

I feed my dog Innova, which is one of the higher rated foods. She does well on it and likes to eat it. I tried switching her to Canidae and it gave her diarrhea. She was fed Pedigree at the shelter and I switched to Innova when I brought her home and she loved it.

*BUT,* I feed my 5 cats Purina One Chicken and Rice food. I have tried switching them to several of the higher rated cat foods, but they refuse to eat them. There is something about Purina One that they love. Maybe it's some flavor enhancer that isn't good for them ... I hope not. But, they are extremely shiny, healthy, and energetic. My vet has complimented me on their appearance and I also notice they look a lot nicer than many cats I see. So, even though PO has some not-so-nice ingredients, the cats do very well and I've decided to just keep them on it. It can't be THAT bad of a food if they look and act like a million bucks.


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## kelliope (Apr 4, 2008)

Arsenic makes coats shine too, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I have this dilemna myself - when I got my dogs they were rescued from starving and had been at the original foster for about a month. They were fed Pedigree kibble (large dog and they are Chi's!). They had the shiniest coats. That said they also had hair loss, low energy, etc.

I've been struggling with their diets ever since. I feel their health and energy is best on raw with homecooked a close second, but can't feed a true raw diet as I have been unable to get them to eat any organ meats.



fyzbo said:


> If you look at human diet it's varied so much. Asians don't do well eating only meat and potatos whereas many people with slavic origins couldn't handle a diet of sushi, rice, and noodles. What is to say every dog is the same? Perhaps these "high quality" foods that you can only find in specialty stores are better, like comparing caviar to macaroni and cheese, but whos to say some dogs can't handle caviar and would rather the mac'n cheese?


I wonder about this too. My Chi's seem to really desire fruits/veggies/grass. I've never had dogs do that to the extent these do.


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## Doggydigger7 (Jun 13, 2008)

My Ch. lab puppy is on purina puppy chow soon to be on purina one.he seems healthy energetic his coat is nice and full teeth great.... what i am trying to say is that my dog is fine on it but maybe yours isnt different dogs have different reactions to different foods.
-doggyDigger7
and Jake

p.s. just asking have any of you ever been to purina farms?


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

I don't have much room to talk. I had Nubby of Solid Gold for the first 3 months he was here with me. I tworked great with Carter, but even after 3 months, Nubby's stools were runny, his coat rough and he just wasn't feeling that great.

I decided to try a little less rich food and sadly a little bit less in quality Natural Balance. In less then a week, his stools firmed up and his fur I have to say is now softer then Carters ever was.

Sometimes a lower quality food works better for your dog, but I would still try to stay awayfrom any food that contains Corn.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Firstly, I find it amazing that, with all the threads pertaining to what is the best food for dogs, there are still different points of view out there - which is great! 
Secondly, I believe that food is 80% or maybe even more, of what makes a dog or a person healthy. The other 20% comes from physical activity levels and mental well-being (stress, depressions etc.). There are some people who have great genes and can eat tons of junk food and not exercise but still be skinny but it doesn't mean they are healthy.

That being said, whether your dog does better on a cheaper brand or a more expensive brand of dog food is not a result of the price but the food itself. Maybe a dog who does better on a cheaper food cannot handle the 'holistic' extras many of the higher end foods offer. Along the same note, maybe a dog who does better on a higher end food requires more than what a cheaper food provides. It could just be the combination of ingredients that causes the problems but not every food will be suitable for every dog. 

However, I don't understand why, referring to a previous post on this thread, one would not have passion for this subject. The same passion goes, hopefully, into what you feed your kids so why not your dog? In the same way that kibble was created for the convenience of humans, canned and boxed processed foods were created. Humans, in North America, eat too much processed foods because there is not enough time to cook fresh food and then wonder whythey are overweight and unhealthy. My dog had horrible tear stains when I fed her kibble (high end kibble) and while it was worse when she ate her friend's food, a much cheaper brand, her tear stains are gone now that I feed her homemade food. She is also calmer and she has the energy and vitality that I envy. I guess I'm passionate about the subject of dog food because I know what food can do. Plus, we have control over what they eat so I think we're obligated, as pet owners, to give them the best we can, whether it's cheaper, premium or whatever.


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## Argos' Mom (Jul 21, 2008)

I think there are some great opinions on this thread. I also believe that everyone will always have a different opinion on what is best for their dog or cat. I believe that what is the best food and what is the best food for your animal are 2 totally different topics. I would love to feed my animals raw or even home cooked but at this point I am still trying to educate myself on this. I don't want my animals health to suffer because I didn't know what I was doing. 

My mother in law for a long time fed her dogs Beneful. She felt that it was a good food. I feed my dog Innova and sometimes Eagle Pack Holistic. Do I feel that my dog eats a better quality food than hers did? Definitely. Is what I feed my dog best for all dogs? No. For him it is. We have has experiences with skin allergies, chewing, digging, the works. I don't feel that foods with artificial preservatives and things like gluten meals and animal meals and fats are healthy for any animal But, I can also appreciate that not all animals do well on some higher grade foods. I also feel that cats should always be on grain free, which is something that we are currently working towards in my home. 

I would never sit and criticize someone for what they feed their dog when it is what their dog tolerates best. But, I have a big issue when people say, I can't afford it. The dog didn't ask to be in your home. You asked. I know people have hard times. But, I don't believe that it's fair to cut quality food when there are other things that could be cut. 

I love my dog like one of my kids and only want the best for him. This is what I feel is best for him. I feel that I owe it to him to learn what is best. So, I do spend alot of time researching the right foods for him. I can't help but have passion in his food because we all know how many animals have died from pet foods. Just as I put the effort into making my kids' baby food and making sure that they got the best nutrition, I will do the same for my animals.

My mother in law remains in denial of what good nutrition is. I have a hard time with someone saying that just because their animal does well on Beneful or other grocery store foods that that means it is a good food. It may be the right food for your dog because they can't tolerate anything else, but don't act like we're crazy for spending $50 for a bag of food. We put alot of thought into what we are feeding them. Not all premium foods require less amounts. But, I feed a strict calorie amount for my dog. He is neutered and has hip dysplasia. He cannot afford to be over weight. He also can't afford for me to cut corners.

I do believe that the best nutrition is important, but I also agree that what works for me may not work for you.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

Wimble Woof said:


> Nothing has made a difference. Pedigree worked for him, but I can not feed this to him without feeling guilty


It's really strange, and you shouldn't feel guilty, you're doing the best you can for him, and for your other dogs.

That collapse syndrome is very odd. I did a little reading on it and it sounds like a metabolic disorder. Dog does fine for a few minutes of exercise and then boom, it's down. Takes a while to recover and then all is fine. You know what that sounds like? A human athlete bonking when they run out of glycogen (the sugar that's stored in their cells), except much worse. People who do endurance racing take glucose during the race to prevent that (although people who are used to a very low carb diet are adapted to using their own body fat/ketones and don't need to).

And I don't know where the elevated temp comes in... maybe the thyroid goes into overdrive to compensate.

It would be interesting to see what Pedigree has in it that is helping to prevent this. Maybe a lot of pre-digested protein which provides a greater amino acid reserve from which to make more glucose via gluconeogenisis on short notice. If that's the case you could possibly get a similar benefit from other highly processed feeds OR a protein shake powder like bodybuilders use, maybe one that's high in BCAAs. Or maybe a proteolytic enzyme supplement.

Anyway, just speculating on it. I wish you luck with this.


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## TMTAngus (Jun 25, 2008)

I had a hard time with my baby when it came to food. I went through a long list of food. From Purina to Joy to Solid Gold to Wellness to many, many more. He has runny poop, pudding poop, vomiting, on and on and on. Finally, after switching vets (the first one poo-poo'd the situation and gave me medicine that stopped the problems for a few days only), he finally got better on Hill's I/D. He gained weight, his coat is shiny and soft, his teeth are strong and clean, he is energetic and playful and loving, his bloodwork is perfect and the vet says he is 100% healthy. I know there are people who don't like Hill's products, but Angus is doing great on it. And with his chronic intestinal problems, I have to limit his treats too. He gets only shredded carrots, slices of apple, or, if it is a "dog treat", he can have natural treats only. Hill's costs me $28 for a 10 lb. bag, which lasts me about 6 weeks. I'd buy a bigger bag but I prefer him to have fresh food. He's my boy and I want him to be healthy.


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