# Phenobarbital and scratching



## Nance (Jun 20, 2011)

Hello...I am new here but searching for an answer...my chihuahua has been on phenobarbital for one month now...about one week after he started taking it he started scratching ...He has no fleas....The vet said its not a side effect of the drug but she thinks possibly its anxiety from taking the pills everyday and she feel it will stop...I am concern because it went from scratching his side with his back feet to now chewing alittle on his paws/legs...I'd like to find an answer if possible b4 he does scratch himself to the point of hurting himself( scratches/hot spots)...If anyone has been thru this I'd like to hear from you...or if anyone just has any suggestions I'm open to hearing them all....thanks


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

It may be coincidental that it started when taking the phenobarb..it's hard to tell and of course you don't want to NOT give the pheno if you have a seizuring issue. It could be related to seasonal allergies, food allergies, stress, etc. 
How do you deliver the dog's pills to him? Will you /can you give antihistamines (with the vet's okay) to see if it's allergy related? What do you feed him?


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## Nance (Jun 20, 2011)

He gets his pills with alittle peanut butter ...he oblivious that he is getting a pill...I'm in Canada so I dont know if the food he gets is in the states...but he gets "NOW" grain free turkey/duck dry and "WELLNESS" grain free chicken/turkey/beef..I consider it one of the best I can buy...He has been on that for a few years now...Has far as seasonal allergies...he's never had them b4..I know the vet suggested it could be that as well...Benadryl was mention but she really thinks it will just pass...but its been alittle more than 3 weeks of scratching now...
OPPS ..I see your in Canada too so u will probably know of the food I mentioned


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

If he's oblivious to being pilled than it's likely not "stress" of being pilled...not to say that he couldn't be stressed out by other things in life..changes in his enviroment, allergies etc. Food allergies are not specific to "quality" per se (unless it's the grain causing the allergies) but it is more common to have protein allergies (to the chicken or beef for example). Benadryl can do a lot for itchiness caused by allergies (environmental or food based) so if it's safe to give with the pheno it's worth a try. You also may want to stick to a food that is single protein based for a while to see if a limited diet changes the itchiness. This simply means sticking right to ONE protein (the duck OR the chicken OR the beef etc) for 6 weeks or so to see if there is improvement or not and then maybe cycling through each one to see which could be the trigger.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Your vet is correct, itching is not listed as a side effect of phenobarbital but it is listed as an allergic reaction to the drug. Phenobarbital can also be very hard on the liver which is why dogs on this drug need to have their liver values monitored closely. Did your vet mention this to you? FYI, some vets prefer sodium bromide or sodium potassium because they do not effect the liver. You may want to talk to your vet about that possibility. 

Like your dog, my dogs have very serious conditions requiring serious medication. These medication are not benign so we pet owners need to be vigilant in monitoring our dogs for adverse reactions. My best advice to you is to educate yourself, know everything you can find out about whatever you put in your dog's mouth and take an active role in our dog's treatment. In doing so, we become the best advocate we can be for our dogs. I learned a long time ago that it is risky to place blind faith in our vets and it is our dogs who can pay price. 

I am providing a link below to some excellent information on canine epilepsy and also a link to a great support group. People who have walked in your shoes and have lived with seizures will help educate you, support you and guide you. 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/FAQ.htm

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/k9epilepsy/


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## Nance (Jun 20, 2011)

He has been having his blood tested every 2 weeks...and is due again next week....my vet did tell me its very rare to damage their livers ..and if it starts to affect it they give them..ohhh shoot I can't recall the name of the meds but its like an antacid of some sorts..I think after this blood test coming up it will end up having to be done every 3 months after..he has had epilepsy for over 2 years now but just this spring the seizures started happening more often..every 2/3 weeks...so then it was decide it was time for medication...He also has valium but I haven't used it yet...
I asked the vet as well if there was some kind of special diet he should be on but she said as long as its a good quaility food its fine...I have read all the quardian-angels web pages..but I was searching for a message board ...I will diffently check out the yahoo group ...thanks for the info about it..
Last night I gave Jose another good look ..checking for fleas or anything that could be causing the scratching and he has a few red spots now...almost looks like he bleed alittle where he scratches ..this is what I was afraid of ..


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Liver toxicity with long term use of phenobarbital is well known and studies show that anywhere from 6% to 20% of dogs on long term treatment will suffer liver toxicity to some extent. I don't consider that to be a rare occurrence and I would hate for any pet owner to be lulled into a false sense of security because a vet tells them a side effect is rare. FYI, the guardian-angels web site is more informative than an interactive forum. I think that once you become part of the yahoo group, you can rest assured that members there will have a lot more educated and experienced answers for you than we can provide here. Please do check back though and let us know how your chi baby is doing.


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## heidiann (Feb 3, 2008)

Did he have peanut butter prior to the Phenobarbitol (PB)? 

I have an epileptic dog who is on PB as well and itching is not a side effect as was mentioned. 

It could be seasonal, our non-epi lab mix gets the seasonal itchies. A little Benadryl works wonders. Last spring was horrible, this spring...nothing. 

Benadryl is safe for epi-dogs to take but make sure to consult the vet for the dosage. If nothing else, it should help him stop itchies long enough for him to heal...and once he's healed he may actually stop. We have a cat that will tear his neck open and he loses all of his skin and he'll keep itching it until we start putting stuff on it and then when it heals he stops and the hair grows back and he's all good. 

If you need support for the epilepsy, PM me.


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## Nance (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes he has had peanut butter b4 phenobarbital...I gave him Benadryl yesterday and nothing change....not sure what I expected but I was thinking its like humans...u take a pill and get relief within 30 plus mins or so...But he was scratching just as much as b4 the Benadryl...I will give it to him a few more times and see if it helps...But if not then I am not sure whatelse I can do for him....maybe changing his phenobarbital to something else ....He has to go back to the vets for blood work again next week...I guess I will talk to the vets about the next step...
Heidiann...does your Topaz still have seizures or has the phenobabrital stopped them totally ? I ask this because Jose had a seizure about 3 weeks after starting pheno. The vet just up's his does so far so good..But I'd hate to have to keep uping it because he is at kinda the max dosage now....he gets 15 ml 2x's a day and he is just under 10 pounds..


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## heidiann (Feb 3, 2008)

Benadryl worked pretty much like it does with humans when we gave it to Onyx. Have you tried like a topical spray? I think we used one called Fidoderm. It seemed to give her some relief. Did the vet do a scraping to check if something fungal was going on? You may want to take him somewhere for a second opinion. 

I don't know about switching the meds. Usually they switch or add another if the seizures aren't controlled, however since it seems your dog is having a reaction they may switch to something else. I recommend you join a group or an email list and ask there. I don't belong to the yahoo one that lulusmom posted, but I do belong to the EPIL-K9 list. You can join by going to this site http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/ and clicking on the yellow button on the right side. There are many knowledgeable people there who can help you. Topaz has been having seizures since 2006 and I've been a member there since 2007. 

Topaz still does have seizures. He's also on Potassium Bromide and we give him Taurine as well. We took him completely off kibble and feed him raw now, I think it makes a difference, but I can't be sure. We know a couple of his triggers and we try to steer clear of them. (rosemary, fish and vaccines are some of his triggers) He had 2 seizures total in 2010 and has had 1 focal seizure and a grand mal so far this year. As far as his meds go now...I am pretty comfortable at the level we're at so we don't change it when he has a seizure anymore. However, if he were to start having more we would up it as necessary. I also have not lessened it just to "see" if he'll be ok...they sometimes will wean the dogs off the meds when the seizures are controlled...well, I don't want to test and see just for him to have multiple seizures again...so we stay where we're at with the meds. 

If you haven't already, start a journal to keep track of the seizures and what was going on. If nothing else, it's good when you go to the vet. My journal is a blog. I also write any changes in our enviornment like if the neighbor sprays their trees or if we use a different detergent or something like that. He used to get into the trash frequently, so I'd write that. This is how we found out fish was a trigger for him. I also keep track of the seizures he's had on the side of the blog. Here's that link: http://topazseizures.blogspot.com/

What part of his body is he itching? all over or just one area?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

My dog also seems to be triggered by rosemary, but I use a fish based food (TOTW Pacific Stream) some of the time with no problem. Different dogs will have different triggers. Phenobarbital's only noticable effect on Willie was that he got very ataxic (lost ability to walk). Potassium bromide is a better med for him, but the best thing we've done was gold bead implants. Seizures have become much less frequent - from nearly monthly clusters to once or twice a year single seizures, and I've been able to drop his meds to about half of what he was taking.


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## Nance (Jun 20, 2011)

Thank you both for the advice..I did join a yahoo group and found some one else who's dog started to scratch ALOT and she had her dog tested for a number of things...the end result and I am sure alot of money..was the dog had a super flea allergy...Possibly heightened but the phenobarbital ? After weeks of searching for evidence of fleas I finally found one on Jose...I treated him Thursday with revolution but he is still scratching like crazy....I've vaccumed and washed all the pets bedding....( also treated other pets in the house) I am not sure whatelse I can do for him...I bought some polysporin today to put on his sores .....I still have no idea why he is scratching so so much....None of the other pets were scratching b4 treatment but I treated them anyways...Nothing has really changed he has been eating the same excellent quailty grain free dog food...for 3 yrs now...I tried raw for awhile but he was always getting constipated so I stopped( he couldn't handle the bones )..I always wanted to go back to raw tho....
Oh and the benalyn doesn't seem to help at all either...I was actually happy to find a flea  I thought I had my answer but he is still scratching alot..I really don't want to take him off the pb...I have a fear he will end up having back to back seizures or clusters...I have to take him back next week for more blood work ...she thinks his scratching will just go away the longer he is on the meds....but its hard to watch him scratch so much...he is a very cuddly dog and all he wants to do is lie on the cool floor...ohh also today I thought his skin looked alittle pink on his stomach...


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## Caelan (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm new to the forum (also in Canada) and I'm wondering how your dog is doing, Nance. Also, how are your dog's phenobarb levels? 

My dog is on phenobarb (30 mg pills) for seizures. Recently, and out of the blue, he had a bad reaction.


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## Nance (Jun 20, 2011)

Hi Caelan..Jose is doing very well on the pheno...his last 3 blood tests where good...they tell me the normal range is between 85 and 185 ...Jose is between 90 and 100..and no seizures since May 18th...What bad reaction did your dog have from the pheno and how long was he on it ? I hope he is ok now ?

Nancy


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## ltjuette (Jul 29, 2013)

My dog start Phenobarbital last night, she started shaking her head today and scratching at her ears, I called the vet and he said it is possibly a side affect of the med, do I need to be worried?


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