# Great Pyrenees killed another dog



## positivelydan (Dec 3, 2011)

We have had a guardian herd protector (Great Pyrenees) ,Chloey. who is actually really a sweet, well-behaved dog. We got her to protect our goats and chickens and she had done a good job. Chloey was dominant occasionally with our other dogs but always without any incident or injury. She just kept them in line, was my take.

Recently, we had three dogs visit. One was a twelve year old male corgie mix who was pretty happy and decrepit. The corgie was wearing a cone of shame (only way I know those devices) and therefore defenseless -- Chloey attacked and killed him.

I am wanting to understand this behavior better. Can anyone help??

Another piece of information that may (or may not) be helpful is that the corgie mix had a large tumor and may have been on her last leg, so to speak. Also our German Shepherd had attacked the corgie two days earlier, aggressively. I'm wondering if there is some kind of pack dynamic, weeding out a weak link, as there were six dogs on the premises for a few weeks. Or if some gods attack (or kill) other dogs who are sick.

I welcome all intelligent/informed opinions.

Dan


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm not sure as to why your dog attacked the Corgi, but I would like to ask the circumstances of the situation? If the Corgi was injured or sick (obviously was because it was wearing an e-collar) why was it left alone with unfamiliar large breed dogs around? 

What happened before, during, and after the attack? It's hard for anyone to guess at the cause when they don't know what happened, exactly.


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## A2Z (Jul 6, 2009)

Dominant? Pack? Get ready, here it comes!!!


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## positivelydan (Dec 3, 2011)

In response to the the previous comment: Why was the corgie left alone with unfamiliar large breed dogs? We live off grid and an average work day includes other activities besides keeping a close eye on six active dogs. I have never had this kind of problem before and did not suspect this kind of scenario. It might have been foolish to obtain the GP, as I have read now that they are bred to different purposes and not particularly dog/pack friendly. 
Actually, we were not far away, walking up a hill. I don't think the corgie was particularly threatening to the goats or chickens or anything else. Chloey attacked him and the corgie died a few hours later form the wounds, loss of blood.


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## DobieWanKenobi (Dec 3, 2011)

Woah. Sorry this happened to you, and to the owner of the Corgi, who must've already forked out a load of cash for the Corgi.

I can't tell you why your dog killed another. it could've been anything. The events leading up to the Corgi's visit, how the Corgi was acting, how people were acting, what the dogs were doing prior to the attack, et cetera. 

I'll just recommend you keep the Pyr away from other dogs from now on. If you don't live with any other dogs, then this sort of behaviour won't be a problem for you, so there's no need to have trainers and behaviourists and whatnot.

ETA: Oh, you own five other dogs? I'm unclear on what dogs belong to you.


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## positivelydan (Dec 3, 2011)

Segregating the G is not an issue, because we have re-homed the GP to a sheep ranch, locally. I am just wanting to understand this dog behavior, in retrospect. We've never had an issue like that before. Dogs always seem to work things out and end up getting along in the way they do.


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## DobieWanKenobi (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't understand your situation, but it could have been any number of reasons why this happened. If you've sorted the situation out now, then you can move on, but I don't think any of us could tell you why the GP did this.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

How long had the Pyr known the other dogs? He may have viewed the dog as a threat to his herd, which was, really, what his purpose was. Many livestock guardians do not take kindly to strange dogs on their property. As such, the other dogs should have been kept away from him. How would you have felt if he'd casually accepting of a wild canine, like a coyote? In his mind it may well have been the same thing.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It probably had something to do with the dog's age or physical condition, or the "cone of shame". Sometimes a dog who is blind, deaf, or otherwise disabled (or wearing a cone) doesn't send out the "right" body language, and this can set some dogs off. There is an element of "thinning the pack/putting him out of his misery" that happens with elderly or sick dogs, particularly when the dogs haven't lived together long. Or maybe she just didn't like him (and I would say he more likely died from lack of vet care than "she killed him", if it took that long and loss of blood was the cause. It's possible that if the blood loss was stopped he might have survived). I don't think you'll ever know exactly why she attacked.

And, yeah, livestock guardian dogs are meant to be suspicious of other canids. She could have been guarding.


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## positivelydan (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree that the GP SHOULD have not accepted any canine who may have been a threat. Except in this case the dog that was a LEAST threat was attacked. A 12 year old, limping corgie mix with multiple tumors? So that makes me wonder. It is possible that I was simply asking a GP to act in a way that was incongruent with her genetics, but I wonder still, because of the corgie's condition and disposition and also because the German Shepherd had also attacked the corgie.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Let me go a little extreme. We had a Rott kill a corgie in the dog park a few years ago. The facts were that the corgie was in the large dog area and was herding all the other dogs, nipping and barking. The Rott snapped at the corgie and the corgie escalated. The Rott had no patience and simply ended it faster than we thought was possible. 

Your GP was a trained protector. Could the Corgie have been trying to herd either the flock or the GP?


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

positivelydan said:


> We've never had an issue like that before. Dogs always seem to work things out and end up getting along in the way they do.


I am very sorry for your trauma and loss. 

I just want to state that letting dogs "work it out" can be dangerous and deadly, especially if there are size and drive differences. I can't really think of any circumstance when I would just let the dogs sort it out themselves.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Another possibility: a livestock guardian type might consider any dog he hasn't been socialized with to be a threat. Not much different from a coyote skulking around the hen house. Depending how they were introduced, that reaction could have been mitigated until the Corgi's body language hit the button that engages the guarding response--which hardly ever turns out well for a dog that size. Bottom line: LSG breeds are not known to be particularly good with strange dogs.

Then again, some dogs will tolerate dogs within their own pack/family quite well, but have no qualms about demolishing strange dogs on their turf. I had a Rott who was like that. His demeanor was...let's just say...a bit brusk with new acquaintances.

Yet another possibility: some dogs show preferences for the types of dogs they will accept. Some go off on dogs much bigger or smaller than themselves, while others may show distinct preference for dogs of their own breed. Some dogs show immediate dislike for dogs of a particular breed or type. The latter could be from a bad experience, but I don't think that is necessarily always the case. Dogs can be as quirky as people.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Isn't this the equivalent of putting the horse after the cart ? While I appreciate your desire for understanding the dynamics and all, still I believe the proper time for education was BEFORE the death of an innocent and ailing old dog. 

Ah, hindsight is 20-20, ... I guess.




> Also our German Shepherd had attacked the corgie two days earlier, aggressively.


This tragedy was totally foreseeable, and preventable. Such a shame that "someone" didn't provide the protection that dog required, as they rightfully should have.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

It's been thousands and thousands of generations since domesticated dogs have had any need to "weed out a weak link," but I guess it can't be ruled out entirely. Something about the Corgi provoked the attack. Physical (and mental) weakness give rise to unpredictable behavior, and an unpredictible animal is a potential threat. It's not unreasonable to think that the Corgi responded to the GP's warnings in an unacceptable manner.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

So, you rehomed the Pyr. What about the German Shepherd Dog, who also sttacked the Corgi?


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

You know that GPs are livestock GUARD dogs, right? My folks had an Anatolian shepherd for about 8 yrs & I can tell you that he also would have killed that dog for sure. If someone brings dogs to my house all is fine UNLESS the dog acts in a way she seems disrespectful to me or her or the other resident dogs. Izze has been very well socialized so she knows "dovish" very well.

It could have been that: he looked weak due to being hurt, the cone could have set her off it could have been a number of things, without seeing first hand what happened.


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## qingcong (Oct 26, 2009)

I figure a couple of reasons why a dog might kill another animal

1) perceived the other dog as a threat
2) truncated prey drive in which predator attacks a weak animal
3) other animal instigated it
4) for food

I'm not sure it's possible to tell which one it is from your story.


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