# Schnauzer ? Anyone trim furnishings?



## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Do people trim the furnishings on a stripped dog? Or are they left long and never touched?

This is my first Schnauzer. She's 11mo now. I've kept her coat stripped. A groomer does all the work. But she's left the furnishings untouched. They look really long and scraggly. Not to mention collect burrs when we are out in the woods and tall grass. I'd love to have them cut back to half the length that they are now with thinning shears, so that it looks natural...... I'm not sure what the groomer will say to this request, as she's a bit of an opinionated purist. I suppose I can always go to a different groomer.....

But I wondered what other folks do with the leg furnishings. 

PS I do I brush the coat with a wire slicker and comb the furnishings 2x a week. I've only recently started to find tiny mats in the armpit areas. And beard. I wonder if it is because of the shampoo I used for the last bath OR if the dog's just aged enough that the hair is long enough to matt...... Its all new territory for me....


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

It's my understanding that they're clipped. Or scissored, or something. Cut. 

However, on my boy I actually plan to strip the legs. He'll never show, I like him short and one length all over, and I hope it will cut down on the mats/burs.


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

scissored-never clippered. They need to be cut so they have a "barber-pole"
shape on the front legs and the back legs are scissored also. I can't believe your groomer has never done this.
They get awfully scraggely (is that a word?) looking if you don't keep them trimmed.
Eyebrows are scissored too. 
I'm sure one of the groomers on the board will chime in and help you with a better description of how to trim.
I'm not sure if the pattern is the same on a mini and a standard but it is probably close.
You need to trim furnishings about every 5 weeks to keep them looking nice.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Yes, the furnishings need to be trimmed. Thinning shears are going to give you the best natural look, like you stated. I am not an expert on Schnauzers, but I am pretty sure that legs are always scissored/thinning sheared, NOT stripped like the body coat is..the texture of the leg hair is different than the body coat. I could be wrong on that..but I'm pretty sure. Has she been rounding the feet up at least? You want the front legs to look like columns..very tight at the front toes around the foot, and straight up from the toe to the chest..any hair that sticks out past that line when the hair is combed up needs to come off..then follow that around the leg. You can have them trimmed shorter if you want..but I think longer looks messy and unkept..Ask your groomer..take her pictures of SHOW dogs so if she argues with you, you can show her.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks all. I had asked earlier if the legs were ever stripped and the groomed replied no. Seems that they want as thick as possible hair on the legs and stripping would thin it considerbly. Groomer said hairs on legs doesn't grow back like stripped body hair. 

Yes this dog looks scraggly!!! I'd like the leg chest and belly hair to be half the legnth they are now. Will call tomorrow and see if I can't book an apt for just that.


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

make sure she has the chest hair short to the bottom of the "bowtie"
Schnauzers are not supposed to have fluffy chests.
Actually- that part should be short already because it should be stripped.
Are you sure she knows how to groom a schnauzer?


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

bfoster said:


> make sure she has the chest hair short to the bottom of the "bowtie"
> Schnauzers are not supposed to have fluffy chests.
> Actually- that part should be short already because it should be stripped.
> Are you sure she knows how to groom a schnauzer?


 where her collar rests (lowest part where tags lie) a line of long hair starts and goes between her front legs to her belly. So it's not chest hair per say, I guess. That's long.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

NRB said:


> where her collar rests (lowest part where tags lie) a line of long hair starts and goes between her front legs to her belly. So it's not chest hair per say, I guess. That's long.


I think we need pictures.  I don't think I've seen pictures of your girl.


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

Yes definitely post a picture.
This is Eli. You can see that he is stripped down quite low in the front. The longer hair on the chest should start so that it is level with the start of the furnishings on the front legs.
I hope this helps. Let me know if you need more pictures-Make her do it right- your girl deserves to look her best!
(Yes--Eli has a "Sad Tail" in the picture. I don't know why- he wasn't sad )


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

bfoster. do you think people groom a mini differently than a standard? I ask only b/c a SS owner (my girls momma) complained of her current groomer trying to make her dog look like a mini. She said that she had to bring in a picture of a Standard to the groomer. I have no idea what she meant re: mini vs standard.

Yes the chest hair is higher on my dog than it is on yours. It starts above the level of the furnishings. I'd guess my girls furnishings might be as long as your dogs, but not as nice and fluffed out looking as yours (although I realize you probably ran a comb over them before the pic was taken) I do comb 2x a week, but am a bit of a wash and wear girl myself. I'd like them shorter and less work.... less burrs to pick up as well.

I have a pic from early April... it doesn't look bad at all here. but need to take one from today.. showing the furnishings un combed and knarly looking. But you can see the chest "furnishings" they start at the bottom of the collar, clearly above the leg furnishings.

Anyway I called the groomer, got her daughter on the phone and made an apt to have the furnishings trimmed back with thining shears. Tuesday.


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

Its a small picture but she is a very pretty girl.

I asked a friend of mine (who is a master groomer) the other day about standard schnauzer grooming. She said that the patterns are the same but their furnishings are usually not as full and tend to be a little more wirey.
I think whether or not they look rounded is really due to the trim. I admit Eli was all groomed up in the other picture- but this one I have labeled in my library "testing new lens" and I can tell by looking at him he had not seen a comb in a while.
His furnishing still are pretty pouffy-even though they are curley and I think that is due to the way they are trimmed.
Let me look for a picture of the other one- I keep him trimmed the same way and his legs always look pretty full too.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Personally, I would take her chest down lower, and shorter/flatter. I think the belly hair between the front legs is way too long, should be no longer than the elbow. She has a nice angle going there on the underline though. I would ask that she let a little fill grow in there in front of the tail, to bring that tailset up some. She doesn't have what I would consider "long" furnishings on the legs, but they certainly do look unkept and messy, and I see no reason why they cannot be tidied up and given the correct shape. She is a beautiful dog and her body coat looks beautiful.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Sorry I didn't do a before pic. They were scraggly and unkempt looking. Dogs home from the groomer, I'm not exactly thrilled. But anyway I suppose I got what I asked for. The hind is trimmed too short, the fronts are uneven, long sections and very short sections and the belly and chest remain untouched.... 

Graco if you are reading this can you give me a recommendation on a pair of thinning sheers and regular scissors to buy online or brand names you recommend or actual links to sites to purchase...... (I'm a potter by profession and training, which is sort of like being an artist..... I have a good eye and I could do what I want with the right tools) 

Thanks


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

NRB said:


> Sorry I didn't do a before pic. They were scraggly and unkempt looking. Dogs home from the groomer, I'm not exactly thrilled. But anyway I suppose I got what I asked for. The hind is trimmed too short, the fronts are uneven, long sections and very short sections and the belly and chest remain untouched....
> 
> Graco if you are reading this can you give me a recommendation on a pair of thinning sheers and regular scissors to buy online or brand names you recommend or actual links to sites to purchase...... (I'm a potter by profession and training, which is sort of like being an artist..... I have a good eye and I could do what I want with the right tools)
> 
> Thanks


Well that stinks that you aren't happy with the groom. But like you said, you can tweak it at home yourself easily...or at least with a bit of practice. I love the 44/20 shears, Petedge has them as do other sites. Just make sure you get the ones with at least 44 teeth, as they are finishing thinners, and that is what you want. Straight shears..there are SO many of them. I have had good luck in the past with the Master Grooming Tools shears at Petedge, for everyday trimming. They aren't a top of the line shear, and the edges are beveled usually, (convex is a "better" shear, but the edge doesnt' last as long). But they are a decent shear for the price, and will work for what you need them for. I would recommend a 8" shear, or around in that area..some are 8 1/4, some 8 1/2..If I were doing it myself, I would probably use a 10 inch shear, but thats a big shear for a newbie to handle. There are many other brands of shears that do a decent job for little stuff...Dubl Duck, Roseline, Ryan's brand, etc. You wouldn't need to spend alot on the straight shears. When you start to scissor her legs, make sure they are clean and freshly combed. Then take a poodle comb, (ideally because the teeth are farther apart and lift the hair better, but a coarse greyhound will be ok too) and comb straight up from the foot to the top of the leg. Scissor off anything that sticks out of the imaginary "column" you want the leg to look like..Do that all the way around the leg. Then comb the hair out away from the leg, and do the same, all the way around.  For the belly, just eye the angle you want, and wack off what length you want gone.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Graco22 said:


> and comb straight up from the foot to the top of the leg. Scissor off anything that sticks out of the imaginary "column" you want the leg to look like..Do that all the way around the leg. Then comb the hair out away from the leg, and do the same, all the way around.  For the belly, just eye the angle you want, and wack off what length you want gone.


I understand brushing the hair up then aiming for a column on the leg, BUT do i use scissors Or the thinning shears for that? 

Also the column imagery works for me for the front legs, is it the same for the hind legs? The hind legs only have furnishings on the front of the leg....

For the belly I'd assume that I would use the thinning shears, right? 

For a comb I have a medium looking rotating pin comb.... not coarse by any means. Maybe I should pick up a coarse comb? 

Am excited to take control over one aspect of my dogs looks.... Her legs look like there were scissored half hazardly.... not in a comb up/column fashion. But it's only hair, it will eventually grow out...

bfoster love your dogs feet! They look like you bevel cut them at the toes.... does that make any sense? Lol I'm probably using the wrong words to describe what I mean. Is there an idiots guide to grooming your Schnauzer out there? Maybe I need to find one.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

NRB said:


> I understand brushing the hair up then aiming for a column on the leg, BUT do i use scissors Or the thinning shears for that?
> 
> Also the column imagery works for me for the front legs, is it the same for the hind legs? The hind legs only have furnishings on the front of the leg....
> 
> ...


I personally use straight shears for scissoring the legs..you want have a nice crisp look of columns there, and thinners aren't going to give you that look. You can use the straights or the thinners on the belly. Personally, I would use the straights to get the length, then thin it to make it natural looking. BFoster can probably help you with what you be "correct" if I am not? I am no expert on schnauzers. Just going on what I am pretty sure I know. You may even be able to get away with just straight shears if you have no desire to do any other work on the body..if the groomer keeps stripping, you scissor legs and belly, straights are probably all you are really going to need IMO. With the back legs, you want to comb all the fringe on the front of the hind leg (standing behind the dog) out to the outside of the leg. Tidy all that sticks out. Then, comb all to the inside of the leg, and reaching from behind (between the dogs legs) tidy that up. Then stand to the side and comb it all straight off the front of the leg. Tidy again, and give the angle you want at the knee. Do this from the hock area up only. Scissor the hock/pastern/front of pastern into a column giving the angulation you want on the hocks...which (without checking the breed standard) is perpendicular to the floor and straight. Make sure your dog is stacked correctly when you start scissoring anywhere..if she's got a foot or leg not in line where it should be, your scissoring is going to be messed up. Yes, the feet should be beveled like that, very tight at the front toenails in order to get the column. Hopefully BFoster will come help you and tell you anything I told you wrong. ;-)


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Here's a link to a nice breeder, with LOTS of show pics of their dogs. You can see how the dogs are all just a "tad" different, depending on their conformation, etc..but you can look thru the pics, and see the angles on the rear, the flat chests, the column legs, etc. Sometimes looking at all the pictures can really help set in your head what you want to do right before you start scissoring.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Graco22 said:


> Here's a link to a nice breeder, with LOTS of show pics of their dogs. You can see how the dogs are all just a "tad" different, depending on their conformation, etc..but you can look thru the pics, and see the angles on the rear, the flat chests, the column legs, etc. Sometimes looking at all the pictures can really help set in your head what you want to do right before you start scissoring.


need link Graco

Thanks for all the other helpful tips. So I don't need to buy the 44/20 thinning shears *whew* they were $145.00  WIll look for short straight sheers instead......


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

NRB said:


> need link Graco
> 
> Thanks for all the other helpful tips. So I don't need to buy the 44/20 thinning shears *whew* they were $145.00  WIll look for short straight sheers instead......


hehe..oops..here's the link..

http://www.asgardstandardschnauzers.com/top.html

Yeah, I think you can get away with some straight shears, and just forego the thinners right now. You may decide you want thinners later for this and that.


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

I agree with every thing graco22 said.
Definitely use straight shears on the furnishings.
My friend- who is my tutor in learning to groom my dogs is the best schnauzer groomer ever. She told me that when you are finished scissoring the furnishings the dog should look like a sculpture. I don't think you could get that look with thinners. This is picture I took of her dog. Isn't he beautiful?
I try to steal him every time I go to her house.

It takes a long time and a lot of practice to get it right. I learned to roll the coat first and then learned to scissor. The scissoring still makes me nervous.

For the feet- she told me to hold the scissors at a 45 degree angle to get that "beveled" look. It takes a little practice to get the hang of that too.

Good advise graco22- I have nothing but respect for a good groomer.
I can only do one breed and that is still a learning experience for me.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

His head is gorgeous! I can't stop looking at it!


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

I know. He is fabulous. The day I took that picture I couldn't stop. I must have taken about 200 pictures. The camera loves him.
Here he is from the front


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Question: What happens if you try to strip the furnishings? Gatsby's are pretty long and sometimes I look at him and wonder if that would be a good place to practice while I wait for the rest of his body to grow out.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

phew, found a good site for standard schnauzer grooming. Def take off the chest hair lol! Turns out the groomer is a bit misguided about SS.










Oh Well. This is a pic I pulled off of my local SS club's site. 

And another dog; 











a good site for grooming Ss info;

http://www.standardschnauzer.org/grooming.html

No Chest hair.
The belly furnishings stay above the line of the front leg elbow and etc....

Thanks bfoster and grayco for all the great info.

Yes thinning the front legs and furnishings was a Big Mistake. But that's what I had asked for. Honastly what I wanted was just to tidy up the furnishings and bring them in closer to the body. I wish the groomer had combed the hair up and used shears to tidy up the leg columns. As it is I still need to tidy them up.... comb up and scissor the columns.....

ReaganW the reason you don't strip (or thin) the furnishings is that you want the hair Thick. Not thin and wispy. The thick hair protects the leg (of a working ratter) Stripping the leg and furnishing hair..... it doesn't grow back fast enough to be long.... does that make sense? If you strip the hair (or use thinning shears... its going to be a loong time until it grow out and looks right. Just look at the length of hair on the pics bfoster gave.... you see what I mean. If you stripped the legs, then you would have short hair on the leg, short hair on the body, would look really odd.

must take pic of my girl to show you what odd looks like, lol! Oh well, sometimes I got to learn by making a mistake!


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

oh well- don't feel bad-we have all had not-so-great haircuts in our lives.
At least you care enough to try and make it right.
Good luck- we will be looking for updates


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

RaeganW said:


> Question: What happens if you try to strip the furnishings? Gatsby's are pretty long and sometimes I look at him and wonder if that would be a good place to practice while I wait for the rest of his body to grow out.


The leg coat is not a harsh coat, its softer and not meant to be stripped. Pulling it out is just going to cause pain to the dog. If you want something to keep yourself busy with, work on carding out your dog's body while it grows out, and you can start pulling any hair that will come out, you don't have to wait for it to get long.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

bfoster said:


> I agree with every thing graco22 said.
> Definitely use straight shears on the furnishings.
> My friend- who is my tutor in learning to groom my dogs is the best schnauzer groomer ever. She told me that when you are finished scissoring the furnishings the dog should look like a sculpture. I don't think you could get that look with thinners. This is picture I took of her dog. Isn't he beautiful?
> I try to steal him every time I go to her house.
> ...


Thank you. Glad I wasn't telling the wrong info. It is hard to know alot about so many breeds, and then to actually be able to correctly "do" what you see in your mind...two totally different things..lol That boy is gorgeous..after looking at some standard sites I would say there is a big difference in the amount of leg coat on minis vs standards..


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

Yeah I think so too. The mini's seem to have a lot more furnishings. The pattern seems to be the same though.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

bfoster said:


> oh well- don't feel bad-we have all had not-so-great haircuts in our lives.
> At least you care enough to try and make it right.
> Good luck- we will be looking for updates


Ha so right. I got a terrible haircut last Friday and now my dog has a bad haircut. Phew Bad Haircut Week. 

I bought shears and a new comb (mine escaped) Waiting for them to arrive.

NOW I need to find a schanuzer person to teach me! 

I love the tight short hair on bfosters dogs cheeks (jaw), my girl looks like she's growing big side burns, when you look right at her face she looks more like a monkey than a dog..... argh


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Shears and comb arrived today. I'm going to bathe her legs tonight and if they dry in time will scissor her before bedtime. Plan A. I assume it will be easier to do with clean furnishings.

Grayco22 I finally checked out the link you posted, I had to lol b/c I almost got a dog from that breeder. I just clicked with a different breeder who return my call before they did. No other reason. I'm sure that they have lovely dogs.

bfoster, I also checked the SS grooming link I had posted and re-read it. SO the tight throat latch area, and cheeks on your dog is from clippers right? I HATE the way my dog looks with her mutton chops/ long cheek hair. I wonder if I can bring up my Oster A5's from the barn and use my #10 blades on her cheeks.... Or if that would be just wayy over my head. I mean one head twitch from the dog and I could end up taking off half the beard, ugh.

Maybe I'd better grow a backbone and use a different breeder. I suck at "firing" people.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

NRB said:


> Shears and comb arrived today. I'm going to bathe her legs tonight and if they dry in time will scissor her before bedtime. Plan A. I assume it will be easier to do with clean furnishings.
> 
> Grayco22 I finally checked out the link you posted, I had to lol b/c I almost got a dog from that breeder. I just clicked with a different breeder who return my call before they did. No other reason. I'm sure that they have lovely dogs.
> 
> ...


Yes, the cheeks are clipped, and you can handle that! Just hold her beard hair in your hand/fist firmly, and she will hold still, and you will also be keeping it out of the clipper accidentally. Just dive in. Is your groomer not clipping that??


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

Yep- you are going to clipper the cheeks, but to get that sharp clean face you will also need to scissor the area on the edge of where beard meets cheek.
Straight shears- I think that is the area that is not how you want it. There is a chunk of hair that need to be scissored from the "sideburn" area otherwise you get a messier looking face.
I hope graco22 will come back and give you a better description- I wish I could 
draw you a picture .
On this picture of Eli you can see there is an area right behind his eye that is scissored straight down to give a nice clean look. I think that might be the spot thats bugging you. If you don't scissor that it sticks straight out.

One other thing you might want to consider if you are going to be doing this is to get a grooming table. They don't have to cost a fortune and it sure makes things a lot easier as far as the dog holding still

You also will have an easier time trimming the legs if you blow them dry- brushing the hair up and out as they dry with a pin brush. If they air dry it is really hard to get that column look


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

As a groomer, the only time I won't trim and tidy furnishings, is if the owner DOES not want it. But you have to make sure to ask. On bath and brush outs, I usually don't do any trimming, aside from around the feet, and bumper, and reshaving the head and ears, and groin.

The side of a terrier's face should blend in to the extent that it looks "natural"...it shouldn't have 'poofs' where the clippered area ends and the beard begins...

A wheaten...not clipped as close on the face as schnuazers are, but shows what bfoster is talking about, regarding blending in...you can't tell where each meet...


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

bfoster said:


> Yep- you are going to clipper the cheeks, but to get that sharp clean face you will also need to scissor the area on the edge of where beard meets cheek.
> Straight shears- I think that is the area that is not how you want it. There is a chunk of hair that need to be scissored from the "sideburn" area otherwise you get a messier looking face.
> I hope graco22 will come back and give you a better description- I wish I could
> draw you a picture .


I think you described that well bfoster. Also, if the cheek is fuzzy, then the beard hair by the outside corner of the eye is not going to lay flat..its going to stick out. And when they open their mouths...well forget it..THAT drives me nuts cause then hair is sticking poufy everywhere...lol If you get those cheeks clipped down, and give a nice angle on the beard hair at the corner of the eye, I think you will be alot happier with your girl's look.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Graco22 said:


> I think you described that well bfoster. Also, if the cheek is fuzzy, then the beard hair by the outside corner of the eye is not going to lay flat..its going to stick out. And when they open their mouths...well forget it..THAT drives me nuts cause then hair is sticking poufy everywhere...lol If you get those cheeks clipped down, and give a nice angle on the beard hair at the corner of the eye, I think you will be alot happier with your girl's look.


ok you both have me freaked out that I'm going to make my dog look worse not better. Her breeder is showing dogs in my area in early June. I plan on meeting up with her, hanging out at the show and getting the skinny on grooming..... Unfortunately she's a 4hr roundtrip drive from me so I can't go to her for grooming tips... I just don't have that kind of free time.... and I've had a puppy ex-pen that she loaned me a year ago that I kept wanting to return. Lol.


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

I don't think that you are going to make her look worse. You ask a lot of good questions and you know what it is about the way she looks that doesn't look right.
I think if you would trim that one area behind the eye where beard meets cheek you would be a whole lot happier.
Maybe when you meet up with the breeder she could bring you a diagram with instructions.
You can't expect to get everything right the first time- but I think you are on the right track.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

NRB said:


> ok you both have me freaked out that I'm going to make my dog look worse not better. Her breeder is showing dogs in my area in early June. I plan on meeting up with her, hanging out at the show and getting the skinny on grooming..... Unfortunately she's a 4hr roundtrip drive from me so I can't go to her for grooming tips... I just don't have that kind of free time.... and I've had a puppy ex-pen that she loaned me a year ago that I kept wanting to return. Lol.


I am sure the breeder can help you out, and don't worry about messing up. Its all still just hair, and it WILL grow back. Sometimes ya just have to dive in, hope for the best, and if a mistake is made, learn from it. Don't be afraid to try though.


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