# Help on breeders



## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

We're looking to get a mini goldendoodle and can't find one at any rescues. 

I found this listing with puppies available at breeders. We don't want to deal with a puppy mill though. 

Anyone have any insight on any of these?

https://www.greenfieldpuppies.com/miniature-goldendoodle-puppies-for-sale-pa-md-de/


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I wouldn't trust that site. Even if they do make sure the breeders they list don't mistreat their dogs, there's a world of difference between simply not mistreating dogs and being a responsible breeder. Try this one, they require health testing from the breeders on their list: http://www.goldendoodleassociation.com/home.aspx


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

Willowy said:


> I wouldn't trust that site. Even if they do make sure the breeders they list don't mistreat their dogs, there's a world of difference between simply not mistreating dogs and being a responsible breeder. Try this one, they require health testing from the breeders on their list: http://www.goldendoodleassociation.com/home.aspx


Thank you!


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## doodlebug124 (Oct 31, 2015)

That's gotta be a puppy mill or a broker for a puppy mill. The number of breeds they have for sale is an immediate tell. IMO no reputable breeder would sell their puppies this way. I googled the first breeder that came up...David Fisher. His website says he's licensed and inspected...that means he's a large breeder that must be USDA registered = puppy mill. He's in Delta, PA - Amish Country. The Amish are notorious puppy mill owners. There is nothing on the website about health testing. Basically, everything about it screams "stay away" to me.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

doodlebug124 said:


> That's gotta be a puppy mill or a broker for a puppy mill. The number of breeds they have for sale is an immediate tell. IMO no reputable breeder would sell their puppies this way. I googled the first breeder that came up...David Fisher. His website says he's licensed and inspected...that means he's a large breeder that must be USDA registered = puppy mill. He's in Delta, PA - Amish Country. The Amish are notorious puppy mill owners. There is nothing on the website about health testing. Basically, everything about it screams "stay away" to me.


Brokers.

You might find this thread a good read (in a both highly amusing and kinda sad way)
http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/181146-keystone-puppies-stands-behind.html

Greenfield Puppies has been brought up here before....
(my post in the other thread for anyone wondering why I am connecting "Keystone" and "Greenfield"


Shell said:


> For those who missed it on the other thread, here's my post.
> 
> I searched the website owner's name and found that he has another business/website with the exact same design and selling even more puppies. This one had more of the breeder's full names listed so I did some searches on them.
> 
> ...


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

Very helpful information. 

We got our beagle from a rescue so, we are not well acquainted with breeders. 

We'd prefer a rescue but can't seem to find the right dog. 


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

mikegoldnj said:


> Very helpful information.
> 
> We got our beagle from a rescue so, we are not well acquainted with breeders.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, you're in a bit of an uphill battle in terms of searching for a "mini goldendoodle" as that mix is kind of a double-down on the designer dog thing which attracts a lot of unscrupulous breeders who are strictly there for the profit. Willowy's link does look like a good place to start as requiring health testing is a big plus, but even then you'll want to carefully research any breeder found through it. 

What about this specific breed mix interests you and makes you think it is the right dog? For one, the traits you like in it might be found in another more established breed which means more options for good breeders. For two, remember that a F1 mix can end up with any mix and match of the breed traits of its parent breeds. Coat, temperament, etc are much more variable in F1 mixes than in well bred purebreds.

If you are going rescue route, puppies are a toss-up as to adult temperament/size/etc but an adult dog can be more of a known quantity so even if the adult dog is listed as a "doodle" it doesn't have the same level of unknowns as a pup for a doodle breeder.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I wholeheartedly agree with Shell, Willowy, and Doodlebug. You'll need to very carefully vet any goldendoodle breeder - ensure that they are health testing (beyond just a "vet check"), doing something with their dogs (e.g., obedience, therapy, rally). and keeping their dogs in good condition.

Greenfield is a broker for puppy mills, unfortunately.

Mid-Atlantic Poodle Rescue (http://www.midatlanticpoodlerescue.org/) sometimes gets mixes and the rescue person is my dogs' breeder. I trust her completely. 

I'd also ask, why a doodle and not a poodle or golden? What characteristics attract you?


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

We love beagles and I would consider another one but, my wife really wants a non shedder. 

We've played with a few goldendoodle and they all seemed to have great personalities. 

As I said, we'd prefer to rescue a 1 to 2 year old dog that had been fostered and assessed for personality, temperament, etc. 


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

mikegoldnj said:


> We love beagles and I would consider another one but, my wife really wants a non shedder.
> 
> We've played with a few goldendoodle and they all seemed to have great personalities.
> 
> ...


Goldendoodles aren't necessarily non-shedders. In actuality, their coats can be more of a nightmare than either a poodle or a golden; ask a few groomers about the fun of a doodles coat unless you basically keep the dog shaved short all the time. 

If non-shedding, small, and easy going are your main criteria, what about a Mini Poodle, Havanese or Maltese for example? For a dog with a little more "attitude", maybe a Yorkie or Cairn Terrier?


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

Shell said:


> Goldendoodles aren't necessarily non-shedders. In actuality, their coats can be more of a nightmare than either a poodle or a golden; ask a few groomers about the fun of a doodles coat unless you basically keep the dog shaved short all the time.
> 
> If non-shedding, small, and easy going are your main criteria, what about a Mini Poodle, Havanese or Maltese for example? For a dog with a little more "attitude", maybe a Yorkie or Cairn Terrier?


I had heard that grooming can be an issue. I was told that non shedding is more likely in the F1b generations than F1. 

We are also looking into Havanese but I don't want too small a dog. 


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

mikegoldnj said:


> I had heard that grooming can be an issue. I was told that non shedding is more likely in the F1b generations than F1.
> 
> We are also looking into Havanese but I don't want too small a dog.
> 
> ...


I think it would just be far safer to go with a purebred in this regard. What happens if you do end up with a miniature goldendoodle that sheds like a golden? 
I find mixes great, but if the criteria is low shedding, then there could be some problems. F1b depends on what breed crossed back to.
I don't know the genetics with shedding. I know it with curly coats, but not shedding. and I could not figure it out, only the process behind it and how it works, so I wouldn't know the risk with a crossbred.

Poodles and goldens are both (very generally) breeds with good temperaments, so a mix would most likely be a very good, solid dog if both parents and dogs further up the pedigree have had their health tests and have good temperaments, but it seems quite a bit of a risk, with both shedding and finding a responsible breeder if you decide to go that route, though you mentioned shelter dogs were fine too  .


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

CiElBie said:


> I think it would just be far safer to go with a purebred in this regard. What happens if you do end up with a miniature goldendoodle that sheds like a golden?
> I find mixes great, but if the criteria is low shedding, then there could be some problems. F1b depends on what breed crossed back to.
> I don't know the genetics with shedding. I know it with curly coats, but not shedding. and I could not figure it out, only the process behind it and how it works, so I wouldn't know the risk with a crossbred.
> 
> Poodles and goldens are both (very generally) breeds with good temperaments, so a mix would most likely be a very good, solid dog if both parents and dogs further up the pedigree have had their health tests and have good temperaments, but it seems quite a bit of a risk, with both shedding and finding a responsible breeder if you decide to go that route, though you mentioned shelter dogs were fine too  .


All good points. We've got more research to do before we make any decisions. 


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I am cranky about the lack of medium-size Poodles in this country. Hmph. I'll have to start a Moyen Poodle petition or something .

Anyway, an f1b doodle is the offspring of a doodle mixed with a Poodle, right? So only 1/4 Golden. . .I think if they cross a curly-haired doodle with a Poodle you can't get non-curly offspring so that might work out. . .if I'm getting my genetics right, lol. If you can find someone breeding smallish Standard or largish Miniature Poodles it might be more predictable.


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## CiElBie (Mar 5, 2016)

Willowy said:


> Anyway, an f1b doodle is the offspring of a doodle mixed with a Poodle, right? So only 1/4 Golden. . .I think if they cross a curly-haired doodle with a Poodle you can't get non-curly offspring so that might work out. . .if I'm getting my genetics right, lol. If you can find someone breeding smallish Standard or largish Miniature Poodles it might be more predictable.


Shedding is not based of coat type, but the stages of coat development, Anagen, Catagen and Telogen from what I read. Basically, from what I could find out, it depends how long each hair stays in each stage. I have no idea how these genes would be inherited though in the slightest. 
I could easily be wrong though, so anyone feel free to correct me. I'm often wrong 

Either way, there are breeds with perfectly straight coats that are lower shedding, and dogs with curly coats that shed fair amounts, so the curls of a coat aren't a sure fire way to tell how much the pup would shed.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

What size dog do you want? I agree with Willowy that an oversized mini (which are fairly common) or a small standard (also fairly common) might be a better choice if non-shedding is an important quality.


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

cookieface said:


> What size dog do you want? I agree with Willowy that an oversized mini (which are fairly common) or a small standard (also fairly common) might be a better choice is non-shedding is an important quality.


Less than 40 pounds. 

My wife just really wants a break from dealing with the fur all over the house so, non-shedding is a preferred quality. 


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

My obedience instructor has a 35lb standard poodle who is lovely and a great size. It's easy to find poodle breeders and they're usually obsessed with their dogs enough that if you ask for a puppy on the smaller size they'd be able to deliver. Also, a soft coated wheaten might be a good option for you, they're nice dogs and very low shedding, but they're a popular breed right now so extra care and research is a must.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

A miniature poodle will definitely be under 40 lbs. My standards are both around 42 lbs. My experience has been that most show or sport bred standards are between 40 and 50 lbs, but smaller ones definitely exist.

You might also consider a lagotto romagnolo; they're not as common as poodles or goldens, but they seem like nice little dogs. Barbet are another non-shedding breed, but they might be a little too big.


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

Thanks for all the suggestions! We will check them out. 

Turns out someone my wife works with has a "yorkiepoo" that is a year old. Her little kids have lost interest in playing with her and aren't walking her. We may end up taking her even though she's a bit smaller than I would prefer. 


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

That's always a good way to get a new dog . Hopefully it works out for all of you!


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

mikegoldnj said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions! We will check them out.
> 
> Turns out someone my wife works with has a "yorkiepoo" that is a year old. Her little kids have lost interest in playing with her and aren't walking her. We may end up taking her even though she's a bit smaller than I would prefer.
> 
> ...


Hope it works out!


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

CiElBie said:


> Poodles and goldens are both (very generally) breeds with good temperaments, so a mix would most likely be a very good, solid dog if both parents and dogs further up the pedigree have had their health tests and have good temperaments, but it seems quite a bit of a risk, with both shedding and finding a responsible breeder if you decide to go that route, though you mentioned shelter dogs were fine too  .


A fair fraction of miniauture and toy poodles have severe temperament problems. Puppy mills are likely to acquire a toy or mini stud without concern for temperament. There are also quite a few complaints in the goldie community about breeders dis-regarding temperament and ending up with skittish or aggressive dogs (resource guarding and fear aggression most common). Nothing against cross breeding in principle, but be VERY VERY careful. A shedding dog is a problem. But a dog with off-temperament can be a nightmare.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

mikegoldnj said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions! We will check them out.
> 
> Turns out someone my wife works with has a "yorkiepoo" that is a year old. Her little kids have lost interest in playing with her and aren't walking her. We may end up taking her even though she's a bit smaller than I would prefer.
> 
> ...


could be a good solution. You're helping a dog avoid the rescue route (rescue is laudable but may be traumatic for dogs . . . direct transfer from family to family has advantaes). And you should be able to figure out if the individual dog works for you. If your friends will allow, give it a try for a week or two and see how it goes.


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

sandgrubber said:


> could be a good solution. You're helping a dog avoid the rescue route (rescue is laudable but may be traumatic for dogs . . . direct transfer from family to family has advantaes). And you should be able to figure out if the individual dog works for you. If your friends will allow, give it a try for a week or two and see how it goes.


Unfortunately, the friend's husband got cold feet and decided he did not want to give up the dog. 

Bad for us, hopefully good for the dog and them. 


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

sandgrubber said:


> A fair fraction of miniauture and toy poodles have severe temperament problems. Puppy mills are likely to acquire a toy or mini stud without concern for temperament. There are also quite a few complaints in the goldie community about breeders dis-regarding temperament and ending up with skittish or aggressive dogs (resource guarding and fear aggression most common). Nothing against cross breeding in principle, but be VERY VERY careful. A shedding dog is a problem. But a dog with off-temperament can be a nightmare.


My experience with all mini poodles I've interacted with, has been negative. The ones I've met have been very aggressive 


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

mikegoldnj said:


> My experience with all mini poodles I've interacted with, has been negative. The ones I've met have been very aggressive
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then a dog who is half miniature poodle seems like an odd thing to be looking for.

While the re-home from the friend of a friend didn't work out, it does highlight what can be a good option for finding an adult dog. Sometimes rescues and shelters will "courtesy post" dogs which are being rehomed by their owners, the post part means that the rescue lists the dog on petfinder etc but the owner continues to care for the dog until a new home is found so there is less shake-up in the dog's life then being shifted to foster/shelter/etc in between.

You can also kind of put the word out among your extended social circle. One of my former coworkers got a lovely kid-friendly Boxer as a re-home from an acquaintance of another coworker whose two female Boxers were fighting and she decided it was best for the dogs to find a new (only dog) home for the younger one. Well cared for, all vet papers included and the dog adjusted quickly.


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## mikegoldnj (Jul 4, 2016)

Ended up going the rescue route and adopted this one year old beagle/lab mix. 











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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Welcome to the new pup! I suggest since your wife is tired of shedding & you got that dog, start vacuuming on a daily basis. YOU vacuum is what I mean!


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

InkedMarie said:


> Welcome to the new pup! I suggest since your wife is tired of shedding & you got that dog, start vacuuming on a daily basis. YOU vacuum is what I mean!


And give him frequent baths and daily brushing!


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

What a cutie! Congradulations. Enjoy.


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