# The results are in..you won't believe it



## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Okay, well I got the results of Mac's DNA test. They found trace amounts of three breeds, and faint signals of other breeds which aren't strong enough to identify. So basically...too mixed to really say. But, the three breeds they saw the strongest were boxer, lab (okay..so far so good)..and get this....

Australian Terrior? huh???

That was really too much. Obviously their physical traits are not showing the australian terrior heritage. So, now I can atleast say boxer/lab mix. I think I'll throw in RR and mastiff just for fun...that's what I believe the other "faint signals" are from (he he) who knows the difference anyway, right? 

So, here's some pics of my australian terriors playing!





































A couple more


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

I need a new camera. I missed so many shots today because my camera is CRAP!

Enjoy, and thanks for looking!


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## Kuma Cho (Mar 7, 2008)

The non-brindle colored pup looks a bit like one we got from NOAH about a year ago. We have no idea what breed he is!

Who does the DNA testing? We would really like to know the breeds in Bruno.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Oh, yeah, I can definitely see Australian








terrier.


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## Renoman (Mar 20, 2007)

Great pictures!! 

Those are some happy pups! 

Obviously, the Australian Terrier is several generations back.....

I see RR in the solid color pup for what it's worth. The 3rd pic.. he's looking head on to the camera and I see RR in him... maybe I'm all wrong.


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## jcd (Nov 20, 2007)

do you believe your results at all ? i see no boxer and especially that terrier dog they said. it seems like they are never close to what the human eye can see. 

i would like to do this test but fear it isn't worth the $$$$$$$$$. seems like you still may have doubts.

what is your honest opinion on the entire process? would you do it again? jcd


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## Phoebe's Mom (Mar 7, 2008)

I read that they cant identify Rhodesian Ridgeback with DNA because the gene that identifies it is patented.


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

boxer/lab looks about right. Of course everyone thinks a dark red dog with floppy ears is a RR or RR mix...but RR are kinda big "dog shaped dogs" once you take away their ridge. And, not exactly a common breed so I really doubt there's as many RR mixes out there as people think.

Very handsome dog, whatever he is though 

What company did you use? If I could find one that didn't require a picture, I'd love to send them some podengo dna and see what they find LOL Or...see if my greyhound comes back as a greyhound.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Phoebe's Mom said:


> I read that they cant identify Rhodesian Ridgeback with DNA because the gene that identifies it is patented.


 
Who holds the patent? 

I didn't know you could patent a gene.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Yeah Grey, I would love to see what they would come up with without a picture of the dogs as well. I mean, what do they need a picture for? Guessing the breed? It would be fun to send in a few dogs that you know the true identity of and see how accurate it is. I mean in this case I think they hit the nail right on the head. Obviously both of those 2 are mostly Australian Terrier. LOL I can tell by the short stockiness of them and the coat. LOL


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Okay, so I used the Mars Wisdom Panel DNA test which did not require a photograph. It was actually a blood test that can only be administere by the vet. It ran me about $150...and it does include the RR in the breed list.

jcd - If I was to get another mixed breed, I may do it again..but not sure. The fact of the matter is, they are so mixed from generations and generations of mixed breeds...that they can only identify trace amounts of any particular breed. I'm sure there are many more in there (like mastiff and amstaff for example). I saw another person in the vet that had the test done and her results just came back as "mix breed"...so really, they couldn't really say for sure. These were the strongest correllations..but I don't really believe the results 100%. I think you would have to have a pure bred parent one of two generations back to show "significant" results...but that's just my take on it...not a scientific fact. 

Potentially they have different heritage (different fathers)...as Mac looks more mastiff to me, and Roe looks more lab/RR/blackmouth cur type. I don't really see boxer in either of them that much anymore...I did when they were puppies...but not really anymore. 

I love them so much...it doesn't matter what they are...I just want to know what to say when people ask other than "not sure". I don't like that answer...and I don't really like calling them Heinz 57 either. Southern Cur?


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## natureloverchris (Nov 11, 2007)

Well, that's pretty funny!

Regardless they look like happy dogs and they are both beautiful


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

So, here's the mama Bellie...I can't really say that I see boxer, lab or australian terrior in her...can you?


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

I can see boxer in their mother, along with both of your dogs.

Now the Aussie Terrier on the other hand, I have to laugh at.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Darkmoon said:


> I can see boxer in their mother, along with both of your dogs.
> 
> Now the Aussie Terrier on the other hand, I have to laugh at.


yeah, she looks like a boxerXamstaff to me...


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## TeddysMom (Feb 6, 2008)

They look like boxer mixes to me as does their mom. Great lovable looking dogs for sure!


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

Mac'N'Roe said:


> Okay, so I used the Mars Wisdom Panel DNA test which did not require a photograph. It was actually a blood test that can only be administere by the vet. It ran me about $150...and it does include the RR in the breed list.


Wow. I'm really surprised at the number of breeds they include in their test...esp compared to their main competitor (an actual genetics company) who offers a fraction of that. Since the Mars company has only been "into" genetics for 5 years it's especially....interesting they offer so many breed IDs. I also find it curious that they say their test WON'T work on pure bred dogs. I mean, if they can tell a dog has "trace" amounts of greyhound in it, why can't they tell it's ALL greyhound?



> Who holds the patent?
> 
> I didn't know you could patent a gene.


I actually did read an article that talked about the issue with RRs. The genetic marker to identify the ridge gene - unique to Thai and Rhodesian ridebacks - was patented by the scientist who found it and can't be used in the Mars test (intrestinly, the same company who makes Pedigree dog food). One person sent in the blood of their known pure bred RR and it came back as a Rottweiler mix and no mention of Ridgback at all.

While I'm not sure if you can patent the gene itself - unless it's engineered or scientifically altered - I suppose you can patent the process for identifying that gene.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

lovemygreys said:


> I also find it curious that they say their test WON'T work on pure bred dogs. I mean, if they can tell a dog has "trace" amounts of greyhound in it, why can't they tell it's ALL greyhound?
> 
> I actually did read an article that talked about the issue with RRs. The genetic marker to identify the ridge gene - unique to Thai and Rhodesian ridebacks - was patented by the scientist who found it and can't be used in the Mars test (intrestinly, the same company who makes Pedigree dog food). One person sent in the blood of their known pure bred RR and it came back as a Rottweiler mix and no mention of Ridgback at all.


I didn't see on the website that the test doesn't work on pure bred dogs. Where did you find this inforamtion? 

This is interesting lovemygreys, because Rhodesian Ridgeback IS listed as a breed included in the Mars Wisdom Panel test, which is one of the reasons I chose this particular test. The article that you are speaking of actually said "Ironically, *a *genetic marker for the ridge that is unique to Thai and Rhodesian Ridgebacks has recently been identified - and Jones is well aware of it - but because the mutation has been patented by the scientists that found it, it cannot be used in the Mars test" Here's a link to the article you are referring to 

http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-hopets5548125jan24,0,3166530.column

I think this was a little misleading. "The genetic marker" and "a genetic marker" are two different things. Yes, they missed on one test...but that doesn't mean that is isn't included in the test and cannot be identified by the test. 


http://www.wisdompanel.com/mixed_breed_analysis/breeds_detected.aspx


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

Its on their FAQ page:

Can the breed analysis test be used for purebred dogs?

No, the breed analysis test is for use only on dogs that are mixed breed to help determine their breed history. Mars Veterinary will be unveiling genetic tests that are specific for purebred dogs in the future.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

RonE said:


> Who holds the patent?
> 
> I didn't know you could patent a gene.


The gene isn't patented. The mutation of a genetic marker is patented by the person who discovered it. Here's a link to the article she is referring to. 

http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-hopets5548125jan24,0,3166530.column


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

> I think this was a little misleading. "The genetic marker" and "a genetic marker" are two different things. Yes, they missed on one test...but that doesn't mean that is isn't included in the test and cannot be identified by the test.


I understand a missed test. But how do you miss on a purebred dog? How do you find a mix of a completely different breed and not even detect the breed that IS what the dog IS. How can you tell what a mixed breed dog is if you can't find the PURE bred dogs. I would think those would be the easiest or most obvious.

But...whatever. You believe you got a good answer from the company and that's really all that matters.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Honestly, I don't know enough about genetics or DNA markers to debate about it. I had the test done, got the results, I actually have said that I don't believe them 100%. I was just trying to point out that the paraphrase of the article was a little misleading, and was trying to clear it up for others. I couldn't say one way or another about why a purebread dog was mis-identified...unless perhaps the genetic markers of the rotwaller (spelled wrong) and the ridgeback are similar in some manner. I'm sure if you did a little more research...there would be some type of explanation about the reason for the vagueness of the "pure bred" testing.

I'm not sure how much you know or if you have been exposed to genetics or DNA markers. It is a VERY complicated, intricate field. It's not cut and dry like you would think...a pure bred dog probably doesn't just SCREAM out of the test. There are thousands of markers, and only hundreds that are unique to a breed, and probably less than that when you get into similar breeds within the same type of family... and these are all subject to interpretation (this is just my speculation on it, again...I really don't know enough about it to really debate the subject). But I did take a biology course which covered genetics (and DNA identification) in college. Looking at DNA and identifying or mapping is involved. 

I think I read that they claim a positive predictive value of 84%...so there you go. One case doesn't necessarily, in my mind, invalidate the test.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

M'N'R,LMAO,remind me never to invest in a Dog DNA test.
I cant believe they ask for a picture,i cant see that mix in them at all,especially mac he looks pure Bully to me and be proud of him.

They are both unique looking but the DNA people must be sitting there drunk and taking random guesses with your dollars in their pocket.


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## Dog5 (Jan 13, 2008)

It would be interesting to have another company do the test and see if they get the same results...


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Mr Pooch said:


> M'N'R,LMAO,remind me never to invest in a Dog DNA test.
> I cant believe they ask for a picture,i cant see that mix in them at all,especially mac he looks pure Bully to me and be proud of him.
> 
> They are both unique looking but the DNA people must be sitting there drunk and taking random guesses with your dollars in their pocket.


Hey Dom, this particular company doesn't ask for a picture. I actually haven't heard of that before...but apparently some companies do. Although...you are right..they are probably taking random guesses with my buck-fifty in their pocket (grrrr) I AM SOOO proud of these two! I don't really believe the results...and have gotten over my curiosity.



Dog5 said:


> It would be interesting to have another company do the test and see if they get the same results...


Yes, it would be. I'll wait another five years or so and see if the technology has improved though - and if the breed list has expanded in other companies.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

M'NR,it really dont matter because they are both beautiful Bullys anyway.
"wink",go and post their pics in the "calling all bullybreed/mastiff" thread.
Take care,Dom


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## dogma (Feb 28, 2008)

The wisdom panel does not require a picture, just 2mLs of Blood.

I got my dog's results back and its what everyone was guessing.
Chow Chow, German Shep
Trace: Golden Retriever




Mr Pooch said:


> M'N'R,LMAO,remind me never to invest in a Dog DNA test.
> I cant believe they ask for a picture,i cant see that mix in them at all,especially mac he looks pure Bully to me and be proud of him.
> 
> They are both unique looking but the DNA people must be sitting there drunk and taking random guesses with your dollars in their pocket.


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## jchantelau (Mar 6, 2008)

I hope you don't mind but I wanted to do a side by side comparison of an RR and your pup. I don't know about anyone else but I see RR in your dog for sure, test or no test.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Well if you ever needed proof,DAMM,there it is,thats uncanny,they are almost identical!


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## jchantelau (Mar 6, 2008)

Mr Pooch said:


> Well if you ever needed proof,DAMM,there it is,thats uncanny,they are almost identical!


I would say this pup is mostly RR and maybe a little lab/mastiff but geez he could pass for pure RR with that pic. By the way Mr. Pooch Aslan is just gorgeous!


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

jchantelau said:


> I hope you don't mind but I wanted to do a side by side comparison of an RR and your pup. I don't know about anyone else but I see RR in your dog for sure, test or no test.


THANK YOU. YES, RR was one of the first breeds that I initially saw in Roe (funny too, huh, "Roe"desian ridgeback..get it?). That was just a coincidence. I am pretty convinced she has RR in her. But, I think she definitely looks like an RR, and then I saw this picture from last weekend which looks lab/mastiff 










Look at her face - is that more lab or mastiff? Lab, right? 

Here's what i think - Roe looks like a RRXlab.
Mac looks like a pitxboxer a little mastiff. That's what I think, test or no test.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

M.N.R,LOL,your dogs are a difficult one,now in that pic Roe reminds me of a young Aslan!!

There is someone on here,they have posted their 2 dogs in the "bully breed/mastiff pics" whos dog looks exactly the same as your dogs mum?

I'll go check out the name so u can look.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

One thing to remember too, I only did the test on Mac. So, Roe could be from another Father, which could possibly been where the RR came into play. Mac's test said boxer/lab...so he also has lab in him (which I don't really see). 

I guess it would be interesting to see test results from the mom and Roe too, see what they say. But, I'm not going down that road.


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## CrazyDog (Oct 16, 2007)

Mac'N'Roe your dogs are beautiful as usual! I love seeing pics of them! 

As for the test results, very interesting! I definitely see Boxer in your two and the mother. I can see Lab in Mac. He has the build and the face. I think it's just the color that is throwing everyone. If he was Yellow or Black he would defiantly look Lab. I do see some Ridgeback in Roe though, but it may just be his coloring. I just knew there wasn't going to be any Pit them.  I didn't see the Pit. Pits have REALLY heavy bone and muscle structure around there head, jaw and neck. It seems Pits are the new Lab though, everyone thinks there dog has at least a little bit of APBT mixed in. LOL!! I definitely DON'T see the Australian Terrier but I guess anythings possible!! 

Thank you so much for sharing the results with us. It was quite interesting. Like Dog5 said, it would be really interesting to have them test by other companies to see if they come up with the same results.....What ever the results they are still very handsome fellows.


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## jchantelau (Mar 6, 2008)

Mac'N'Roe said:


> One thing to remember too, I only did the test on Mac. So, Roe could be from another Father, which could possibly been where the RR came into play. Mac's test said boxer/lab...so he also has lab in him (which I don't really see).
> 
> I guess it would be interesting to see test results from the mom and Roe too, see what they say. But, I'm not going down that road.


I wouldn't either they are gorgeous dogs!


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

CrazyDog said:


> Mac'N'Roe your dogs are beautiful as usual! I love seeing pics of them!
> 
> As for the test results, very interesting! I definitely see Boxer in your two and the mother. I can see Lab in Mac. He has the build and the face. I think it's just the color that is throwing everyone. If he was Yellow or Black he would defiantly look Lab. I do see some Ridgeback in Roe though, but it may just be his coloring. I just knew there wasn't going to be any Pit them.  I didn't see the Pit. Pits have REALLY heavy bone and muscle structure around there head, jaw and neck. It seems Pits are the new Lab though, everyone thinks there dog has at least a little bit of APBT mixed in. LOL!! I definitely DON'T see the Australian Terrier but I guess anythings possible!!
> 
> Thank you so much for sharing the results with us. It was quite interesting. Like Dog5 said, it would be really interesting to have them test by other companies to see if they come up with the same results.....What ever the results they are still very handsome fellows.


Thanks CrazyDog. I can see where you are coming from. I was looking at him yesterday at his face and was trying to see the lab...I guess it is the coloring that's throwing me off. I'm starting to see though. I'll go look at the lab thread and see what I think. Roe definitely looks lab to me too. Anyway, thanks for looking and your feedback. I really appreciate it!


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