# Agility and Spaniel Breeds?



## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

We recently acquired a new dog. She appears to be some type of Spaniel mix. I wouldn't call her hyper (thankfully), but she certainly has plenty of energy when I take her outside. 

I used to train dogs, but I'm really not very familiar with the larger spaniel breeds as they're uncommon around here. She seems very willing to learn, but gets easily bored with repetition. 

I've never done agility (at least not officially), but I'm thinking she would do well with it. Are spaniel type dogs good with agility in general? She has a tendency toward being nervous, I'm hoping to help her learn to cope with that.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Any dog can do agility. In the class my dog and I are taking now, there are requisite border collies, but also my standard poodle, a toy poodle, a keeshond, a bully mix, and a berner. One of our instructors competes with her cocker and someone I know from other classes competes with her ESS. Elrohwen, a member here, does agility with her Welshies.

I don't think breed really matters, especially if your goal is to do something enjoyable with your dog.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I do Agility with two of my Shih Tzu x Maltese and my Doberman and my sister does it with her Golden and her Rat Terrier. There are three Papillons and a German Shepherd training in our arena. Any breed can do Agility from Chihuahuas to Great Danes.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah. I have a BC - she's not hacking it at agility (the setting is just too much for her, at least right now). My Chi-X is eating it up with a spoon. 

I've seen Berners, Newfies, a Pyr-X, lots and lots of cocker and ESS spaniels, goldens, brits, poodles, poms, chis, a beagle, a couple of weims, almost as many labs as aussies and bc, and a whole slew of mutts. 

All you really need is a dog who can be okay in the setting and who likes to play with you.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

My Cavalier King Charles Spaniel has several championships in agility. There are a lot of Spaniel crosses that compete where I am. I know one Spaniel cross that has a C-ATE in CPE. If you look at the requirements for a C-ATE, that is quite a feat.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks everyone  I do realize that you can do agility with any breed, I'm just not as familiar with sporting breeds as other types of dog. When we first brought her home, I asked her previous owners what sort of toys she likes to play with, does she have a favorite toy, does she like to play 'fetch' or whatever. You know, trying to get a picture of her motivations and personality. They told me that she doesn't really like to play with anything, isn't interested in toys and doesn't have a favorite toy. :/ Well, I bought her a couple of things anyway and offered them to her to play with. Indeed, she didn't seem interested in chasing anything or playing with anything. After a day or two, I discovered that she does, indeed enjoy toys. I wouldn't say she has the 'ball drive' of herding dogs I'm used to seeing, but she's treat motivated and she does like to play fetch and chew on her squeaky penguin toy I bought her. She likes resistive chew toys (gonna get her a Kong and Nylabone). Things like this make me wonder what the heck her previous owners did with her. I mean, they seemed to care about her, were sad at giving her up and she does have some good basic skills in place. She learns REALLY quickly though, which kind of surprises me for a Sporting Dog, because I've always thought they were more 'instinctual' breeds. I'm wondering what she's crossed with. Possibly border collie or something (she has the 'J' tail, but I haven't seen any herding behavior). I hope I'm not rambling too much, just enjoying learning about the new dog.


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

susielam570 said:


> Thanks everyone  I do realize that you can do agility with any breed, I'm just not as familiar with sporting breeds as other types of dog. When we first brought her home, I asked her previous owners what sort of toys she likes to play with, does she have a favorite toy, does she like to play 'fetch' or whatever. You know, trying to get a picture of her motivations and personality. They told me that she doesn't really like to play with anything, isn't interested in toys and doesn't have a favorite toy. :/ Well, I bought her a couple of things anyway and offered them to her to play with. Indeed, she didn't seem interested in chasing anything or playing with anything. After a day or two, I discovered that she does, indeed enjoy toys. I wouldn't say she has the 'ball drive' of herding dogs I'm used to seeing, but she's treat motivated and she does like to play fetch and chew on her squeaky penguin toy I bought her. She likes resistive chew toys (gonna get her a Kong and Nylabone). Things like this make me wonder what the heck her previous owners did with her. I mean, they seemed to care about her, were sad at giving her up and she does have some good basic skills in place. She learns REALLY quickly though, which kind of surprises me for a Sporting Dog, because I've always thought they were more 'instinctual' breeds. I'm wondering what she's crossed with. Possibly border collie or something (she has the 'J' tail, but I haven't seen any herding behavior). I hope I'm not rambling too much, just enjoying learning about the new dog.


 With the sporting breeds and the spaniels they can be very fast and become focused. My heart breed is Amer. cocker and they are fast little dogs. My male is good at the jumps and the a frame with the cockers you just have to work with focus as they can go off if you don't. I have seen many spaniels do well at agility here.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> I've seen Berners, Newfies, a Pyr-X, lots and lots of cocker and ESS spaniels, goldens, brits, poodles, poms, chis, a beagle, a couple of weims, almost as many labs as aussies and bc, and a whole slew of mutts.
> 
> All you really need is a dog who can be okay in the setting and who likes to play with you.


This, I even know of several Pugs that have excelled at agility, and personally know two who are flyball champions.  If I'd had the money when he was younger, Kuma would have been an agility Pug, he used to jump right over the back of my couch as a youngster, and baby gates were useless with him, because he'd just jump them, lol.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Kuma'sMom said:


> This, I even know of several Pugs that have excelled at agility, and personally know two who are flyball champions.


And this reminds me - The Bostons. We have one group of bostons who just KILL IT. They're the only breed their owner runs and they are KILLER.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

CptJack said:


> And this reminds me - The Bostons. We have one group of bostons who just KILL IT. They're the only breed their owner runs and they are KILLER.


That doesn't surprise me at all! Pugs and Bostons are so much more athletic than most people give them credit for.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Kuma'sMom said:


> That doesn't surprise me at all! Pugs and Bostons are so much more athletic than most people give them credit for.


I know bulldogs who do very well in agility. They are mainly on the west coast.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

SirviRavenWind said:


> With the sporting breeds and the spaniels they can be very fast and become focused. My heart breed is Amer. cocker and they are fast little dogs. My male is good at the jumps and the a frame with the cockers you just have to work with focus as they can go off if you don't. I have seen many spaniels do well at agility here.


Excellent! That is exactly the sort of info I was hoping for.  I don't, necessarily, aim to compete with her but it's not out of the question.
As an aside.. I hear my 8yr old in the next room working on Sadie with her new tricks. Sounds like they're both having a great time.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> I know bulldogs who do very well in agility. They are mainly on the west coast.


They can be so funny... I saw an English Bulldog working on his CD on year. It was hilarious. He was the star of the show. He and his handler would walk into the ring and everyone would go "awwwwwwww". Then the pair would, very very casually, go through the various exercises. They weren't always perfect, but the handler was obviously enjoying herself anyway and patient with him. I think they did, eventually get their CD. It was so cute to watch.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I love doing things with 'off' breeds. They tend to blow the socks off everyone, no matter what and just by virtue of being there. Last agility practice was a metric ton of aussies, a couple of BCs, and one owner with her schnauzers and then my chi-x. Watching people "AWWWW" at her before she goes on to kill a course is the best thing ever. It's good for my ego - and even if she *doesn't* kill it, she doesn't kill it by virtue of being a wild child rather than mopey so it's still fun.



Kuma'sMom said:


> That doesn't surprise me at all! Pugs and Bostons are so much more athletic than most people give them credit for.


Yep. Bug is going to be 10 before long and make no mistake that dog is still a NUT, and crazy, crazy fit. Jack's gone soft and pudgy as he's gotten older. Bug's still a fire cracker.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> I love doing things with 'off' breeds. They tend to blow the socks off everyone, no matter what and just by virtue of being there. Last agility practice was a metric ton of aussies, a couple of BCs, and one owner with her schnauzers and then my chi-x. Watching people "AWWWW" at her before she goes on to kill a course is the best thing ever. It's good for my ego - and even if she *doesn't* kill it, she doesn't kill it by virtue of being a wild child rather than mopey so it's still fun.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Bug is going to be 10 before long and make no mistake that dog is still a NUT, and crazy, crazy fit. Jack's gone soft and pudgy as he's gotten older. Bug's still a fire cracker.


Sounds like we need video 

I'm hopeful about the Agility thing. Unfortunately though, it appears there is only ONE person in my area who has an agility course. I asked her if she rents it out, but no... she only offers 'agility classes'. I guess that could be fun, but I would really like access to the equipment on my own to work through them. Ugh.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> Sounds like we need video
> 
> I'm hopeful about the Agility thing. Unfortunately though, it appears there is only ONE person in my area who has an agility course. I asked her if she rents it out, but no... she only offers 'agility classes'. I guess that could be fun, but I would really like access to the equipment on my own to work through them. Ugh.


Oh man, if you've never done agility you really need to do the classes if there's even a hint of a chance you want to compete some day. It's not hard for the dogs to jump and climb and run through things, but there's a lot you need to learn about doing it right to both prevent injury and prevent disqualifying yourself because there are so many non-intuitive rules about how you have to perform those obstacles. Really easy to teach the dog 'wrong' or develop bad habits yourself and then you're just up a creek and having to unteach and go again.

Take the classes.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> Oh man, if you've never done agility you really need to do the classes if there's even a hint of a chance you want to compete some day. It's not hard for the dogs to jump and climb and run through things, but there's a lot you need to learn about doing it right to both prevent injury and prevent disqualifying yourself because there are so many non-intuitive rules about how you have to perform those obstacles. Really easy to teach the dog 'wrong' or develop bad habits yourself and then you're just up a creek and having to unteach and go again.
> 
> Take the classes.


I had no idea, thanks for the info  Most likely it will just be for fun, but you never know. I tend to really get immersed in stuff when I do it and I'm hoping my kid will get into it as well. Mixed breeds can compete in agility, right?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> I had no idea, thanks for the info  Most likely it will just be for fun, but you never know. I tend to really get immersed in stuff when I do it and I'm hoping my kid will get into it as well. Mixed breeds can compete in agility, right?


Yep! They sure can.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Yep, quite a few of the spaniels (including papillons!) are really great at agility.


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## gingerwrinklepup (May 19, 2015)

I think the only thing no one has mentioned is structure. It's something a lot of people aren't aware of when doing agility but having poor structure can be super impactful on a dog in the long run if they do sports like agility where the joints get a lot of impact, especially on the front of the dog. Just something to be aware of when considering doing agility or other sports with your dog.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

gingerwrinklepup said:


> I think the only thing no one has mentioned is structure. It's something a lot of people aren't aware of when doing agility but having poor structure can be super impactful on a dog in the long run if they do sports like agility where the joints get a lot of impact, especially on the front of the dog. Just something to be aware of when considering doing agility or other sports with your dog.


That's important to think about. I don't know she can be evaluated for that or not. She seems very leggy to me, but I haven't really thought of evaluating her conformation.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I don't know where you are located, but there are facilities that can assess your dog's structure, motion, and other factors that will determine if agility will be safe for them. We are lucky here in New England because we have Debbie Gross and her facility called Wizard of Paws. I would see if you can find a facility like hers or find a veterinarian who specializes in sports medicine or physical rehab who can give you an idea if your dog's structure will support a career in agility.

http://www.wizardofpaws.net/pages/canine-assessments.htm

I also have a "non-traditional" agility breed....I run rottweilers. 

Ocean...my youngster 






Lars...my old man.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

CptJack said:


> I love doing things with 'off' breeds. They tend to blow the socks off everyone, no matter what and just by virtue of being there. Last agility practice was a metric ton of aussies, a couple of BCs, and one owner with her schnauzers and then my chi-x. Watching people "AWWWW" at her before she goes on to kill a course is the best thing ever. It's good for my ego - and even if she *doesn't* kill it, she doesn't kill it by virtue of being a wild child rather than mopey so it's still fun.


LOL, I know, I don't do agility sadly, but I've lost track of the number of times at the old dog park I used to go to (where people walk the perimeter of the park with their dogs while the dogs run and play, and track the amount of time spent by number of laps, one lap is about 1/2 hour) that I've had a person with a typically high energy breed say to me "I bet you're glad you don't have to do 4 laps with him", and had their jaws drop with shock when I point at Kuma (who's still racing around their dogs playing and often outrunning their dogs) and say "He's on his 4th lap". Man, I love that feeling! This is in the fall through spring of course, we don't go in the summer, it's too hot for him then. 



> Yep. Bug is going to be 10 before long and make no mistake that dog is still a NUT, and crazy, crazy fit. Jack's gone soft and pudgy as he's gotten older. Bug's still a fire cracker.


Hah, yeah, Kuma just turned 9, and he still acts more like a 3 year old, lol. People are always shocked when I tell them how old he is. If it wasn't for the gray hairs he's getting on his face, you'd NEVER know he was 9, not from the way he acts.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

CptJack said:


> I love doing things with 'off' breeds. They tend to blow the socks off everyone, no matter what and just by virtue of being there.


Someday I want to get a basenji and try agility. If nothing else, it'll teach me patience. 

I know people who do agility with Finnish spitz and Alaskan klee kai. I know a girl who titled her shiba in rally. They may not be able to compete at the higher levels with BCs and papillons and the like, but having fun is the goal, right?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Crantastic said:


> Someday I want to get a basenji and try agility. If nothing else, it'll teach me patience.
> 
> I know people who do agility with Finnish spitz and Alaskan klee kai. I know a girl who titled her shiba in rally. They may not be able to compete at the higher levels with BCs and papillons and the like, but having fun is the goal, right?


There's a woman who went to Champs (NADAC's big trail) with Klee Kai! And did pretty danged well!

ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6e9dxUHXd0 Video

I mean, you can tell he's got a mind of his own and he's not running like a BC, but honestly? That dog GOT there! When a TON of BCs and paps did not. Impresses the daylights out of me.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I've seen Kaiser before, yeah! Most AKK aren't quite as motivated. They'll do it, but kind of leisurely. I've noticed that Casper never really runs full-out, either, not like Crystal does! He loves to chase a ball, but after a couple of throws he'll just amble after it.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Crantastic said:


> I've seen Kaiser before, yeah! Most AKK aren't quite as motivated. They'll do it, but kind of leisurely. I've noticed that Casper never really runs full-out, either, not like Crystal does! He loves to chase a ball, but after a couple of throws he'll just amble after it.


She had another dog there with pre-champs which is apparently a bit more typical - at least in the spooky sense of the word. 

Honestly, though, I'm just impressed as heck when people take the dog they have and REALLY LOVE and work with them and do what they do and have fun doing it. I know for a lot of people that IS a BC, but I can't help but love seeing all the random breeds come out and be HAPPYHAPPYHAPPY, even if they're not the fastest or most driven or intense. Watching the Berner run is my favorite thing in the WORLD because he just derps through the course with a grin.


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## dogsule (Nov 6, 2013)

Any pics of your dog? I have what we think is a Cocker/Aussie mix that I do agility with. Also have two cocker spaniels but never did agility with them. I did agility classes for a year and then started trialing this past February. I do AKC agility and Belle is registered through them with the Canine Partners since she is a mix breed. Agility is very fun and very addicting. This past year Belle earned two Novice titles and two Open titles. We have had our issues but really had a great year. You should try out the classes and see how you both like it.

This is my spaniel mix....
IMG_7747a by rzyg, on Flickr


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

MrsBoats said:


> I don't know where you are located, but there are facilities that can assess your dog's structure, motion, and other factors that will determine if agility will be safe for them. We are lucky here in New England because we have Debbie Gross and her facility called Wizard of Paws. I would see if you can find a facility like hers or find a veterinarian who specializes in sports medicine or physical rehab who can give you an idea if your dog's structure will support a career in agility.
> 
> http://www.wizardofpaws.net/pages/canine-assessments.htm
> 
> ...


Your vids didn't show up until I quoted you, but those rotties sure do tear up the course! It looks like great fun. 

Yeah, I don't live in a very sophisticated area, unfortunately. We have a few vets around, but vets specializing in sports medicine for dogs??? Sadly no. The agility class starts in May. I hope to join in.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

dogsule said:


> Any pics of your dog? I have what we think is a Cocker/Aussie mix that I do agility with. Also have two cocker spaniels but never did agility with them. I did agility classes for a year and then started trialing this past February. I do AKC agility and Belle is registered through them with the Canine Partners since she is a mix breed. Agility is very fun and very addicting. This past year Belle earned two Novice titles and two Open titles. We have had our issues but really had a great year. You should try out the classes and see how you both like it.
> 
> This is my spaniel mix....
> IMG_7747a by rzyg, on Flickr


She totally looks like a cocker Aussie mix! I'll try to get a better picture on here tomorrow. Thanks for all of the responses!


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Max was probably a lab/spaniel mix and did a great job. Nearly earned a couple of championships but was severely handicapped by his klutzy handler and loved playing the game with me. In this country agility was designed for a medium sized moderately built dog, English Springers, not herding dogs and there are many out there having a blast.

Here's a photo of Max and a doppelganger, Molly, from a trial. I was always looking for dogs like him. She [and her human] came to San Diego from Canada for this trial! Max is the all black one.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> Someday I want to get a basenji and try agility. If nothing else, it'll teach me patience.


My friend, who is also a retired vet, does agility with her Basenji. He is a conformation champion and she also does tracking with him. Yes, you will need a lot of patience. Just ask her!


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

Kathyy said:


> Max was probably a lab/spaniel mix and did a great job. Nearly earned a couple of championships but was severely handicapped by his klutzy handler and loved playing the game with me. In this country agility was designed for a medium sized moderately built dog, English Springers, not herding dogs and there are many out there having a blast.
> 
> Here's a photo of Max and a doppelganger, Molly, from a trial. I was always looking for dogs like him. She [and her human] came to San Diego from Canada for this trial! Max is the all black one.


Lovely dogs! I haven't been able to get a good side shot of Sadie yet. I was about to take a picture and realized my phone is dead 

Edit: Here is a side shot


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Hopefully starting agility soon with my pups. Neither are your typical drive-y sports types (especially Annabel!) but boy do they love to run around and jump on things, lol.

Here's one of my very favorite agility videos:


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

She's really pretty!

Max had a ring tail too and could wag in a circle and up and down as well as side to side.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

Kathyy said:


> She's really pretty!
> 
> Max had a ring tail too and could wag in a circle and up and down as well as side to side.


Thanks  She's a sweety.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I do agility with my Welsh springers. My male does have typical boy dog problems of being immature and distracted, but he's maturing and we're working through it. He is a careful dog who doesn't like to take risks, but once he understand what to do he's excellent. My 9 month old puppy is shaping up to be a great agility dog. She's very focused, very fast, and pretty fearless. I'm very excited to see how far we can go together. 

I agree with CptJack that you definitely need to take lessons. There is so much to learn and so many ways to do things wrong or in an unsafe way that you need someone to help you start out. Much of the early training that you will be doing at home isn't equipment based either.

ETA: As far as spaniels in agility in general, they are actually quite good. They can follow their nose a bit sometimes, and they aren't naturally as focused as a border collie, but they are smart little dogs with a desire to please and work with their owner.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> I do agility with my Welsh springers. My male does have typical boy dog problems of being immature and distracted, but he's maturing and we're working through it. He is a careful dog who doesn't like to take risks, but once he understand what to do he's excellent. My 9 month old puppy is shaping up to be a great agility dog. She's very focused, very fast, and pretty fearless. I'm very excited to see how far we can go together.
> 
> I agree with CptJack that you definitely need to take lessons. There is so much to learn and so many ways to do things wrong or in an unsafe way that you need someone to help you start out. Much of the early training that you will be doing at home isn't equipment based either.
> 
> ETA: As far as spaniels in agility in general, they are actually quite good. They can follow their nose a bit sometimes, and they aren't naturally as focused as a border collie, but they are smart little dogs with a desire to please and work with their owner.


Thanks  I'm certainly noticing the 'follow their nose' aspect... she nearly always travels with her nose to the ground. Hopefully, I can get her to the point of paying attention to what I'm asking her to do outside. lol


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

susielam570 said:


> Thanks  I'm certainly noticing the 'follow their nose' aspect... she nearly always travels with her nose to the ground. Hopefully, I can get her to the point of paying attention to what I'm asking her to do outside. lol


Outside is hard, but remember that agility is mostly an indoor sport in many parts of the country. Most of the places near me train completely indoors and only one uses an outdoor area in nicer weather. My puppy can handle that, but my adult can't, so he doesn't train at that facility.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

elrohwen said:


> Outside is hard, but remember that agility is mostly an indoor sport in many parts of the country. Most of the places near me train completely indoors and only one uses an outdoor area in nicer weather. My puppy can handle that, but my adult can't, so he doesn't train at that facility.


I have never trialed or trained indoors. The closest thing to indoors for me was an enclosed horse arena. I can't even imagine dodging all those support beams! I love being outdoors with my dogs. It can be challenge with the weather. We have trialed in the rain and I have had to scratch events when it became too hot. Once my dogs get running, there is no time for sniffing. I actually stopped doing rally with my Cavalier because she couldn't keep her nose off the ground. That has never been a problem with her in agility. Even at 12 years old...she is moving too fast.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

So Cavalier said:


> I have never trialed or trained indoors. The closest thing to indoors for me was an enclosed horse arena. I can't even imagine dodging all those support beams! I love being outdoors with my dogs. It can be challenge with the weather. We have trialed in the rain and I have had to scratch events when it became too hot. Once my dogs get running, there is no time for sniffing. I actually stopped doing rally with my Cavalier because she couldn't keep her nose off the ground. That has never been a problem with her in agility. Even at 12 years old...she is moving too fast.


One place we go is a horse arena, the other place is indoor/outdoor depending on the time of year and weather (the indoor space is too small for a dog walk, but doesn't have any support beams). The new place we will probably train when we move is a huge indoor space. I can't even think of a place that is all outdoors all the time. The weather just doesn't cooperate. But as you said, it really depends on the area for what is common.

Watson has lots of sniffing problems. It's true that once the dog is running they aren't thinking about sniffing, but dogs stress, dogs get distracted, etc and outdoors is going to be a lot more distracting for many (especially sporting breeds) than indoor facilities. And I do believe there is going to be a difference in a dog's drive to sniff and hunt between say a cavalier or a pap, and a working line springer. Just being "spaniels" doesn't make them the same.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

As for the questions of her build and genetics, there are several more pictures of her over on my 'Thoughts on Protection' thread. I've given a series of pictures and a short video. She looks a little strange, actually... she has really long legs.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

So Cavalier said:


> I have never trialed or trained indoors. The closest thing to indoors for me was an enclosed horse arena. I can't even imagine dodging all those support beams! I love being outdoors with my dogs. It can be challenge with the weather. We have trialed in the rain and I have had to scratch events when it became too hot. Once my dogs get running, there is no time for sniffing. I actually stopped doing rally with my Cavalier because she couldn't keep her nose off the ground. That has never been a problem with her in agility. Even at 12 years old...she is moving too fast.


Yeah, in my part of the country it's an outdoor sport, too. There are indoor classes, and we just had our first ever indoor trial and to be honest? It was in a livestock barn. It was heated, it was connected to a 'normal' building with classrooms, but it was dirt, it smelled like horses, and there was a flock of birds flying in formation amongst the rafters. It was nice to be out of the weather, but out of the weather and a warmer place was about all we got out of it. Distraction wise, well. It wasn't a step up and was one or three down because there was much, much less space to spread out in, and there were spectators set up more or less on top of one side of the ring. 

I mean, I didn't love the outdoor site that was right beside the interstate, but in general I'm just happier outside on grass (and admittedly 'dog ran away' is never a concern for me and I recognize that). 

That said, I know there are some really nice indoor facilities but it REALLY is going to vary by area of the country and venue, and you can NOT count on having indoor facilities as an option. Definitely check it out first so you know what you have access to.

ETA: I will say that we've had working spaniels, and terriers, and beagles, and brits (and weims, and GSPs), and sighthounds, who run outdoors where fences are little more than suggestions (sometimes snow fencing, sometimes just tape to mark) and while they not be the most focused, I've seen more of labs going to greet ring crew than spaniels or hounds following their nose off the agility course. By, oh, 10:1, since I've never seen a spaniel or even hound entirely blow it's owner off in favor of doing its own thing. Oh wait, no, I saw a brit dash off once, but it didn't leave the ring just RAN - there was no nosing involved. 

Granted these are dogs already competing, I'm not saying it's hard or that's typical, but it's not like it's impossible to achieve, either.

You should definitely not be writing it off because of breed, especially when it's breed MIX is basically what I'm getting at here.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> and there was a flock of birds flying in formation amongst the rafters.


One of my first experiences in the horse arena was when I was a real newbie at the sport. I had Gemma at the start line and was waiting for the previous dog to get leashed when the judge very sternly ordered me to pick up my dog and move away from the line. I had no idea what I had done wrong. I obeyed and then all of a sudden a huge owl came flying out of no where. They opened the doors at the opposite side of the arena and the owl eventually flew out. I don't think Gemma could have been lifted but I am glad someone spotted the owl before the even smaller dogs ran. There are hawks where we trial also. You just need to on the lookout.



> And I do believe there is going to be a difference in a dog's drive to sniff and hunt between say a cavalier or a pap, and a working line springer. Just being "spaniels" doesn't make them the same.


Honestly, I don't see many dogs sniffing except for a couple of beagle mixes. Usually if there is a distraction, it might be something on the ground that the dogs just want to roll in and mostly in the beginner's levels. The dogs in the higher levels are usually off and running and not distracted.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

So Cavalier said:


> Honestly, I don't see many dogs sniffing except for a couple of beagle mixes. Usually if there is a distraction, it might be something on the ground that the dogs just want to roll in and mostly in the beginner's levels. The dogs in the higher levels are usually off and running and not distracted.


Maybe I'm not explaining well, but I'm talking about the beginning dogs and novice handlers here. Not high level competitors. Of course the high level dogs are not taking off sniffing. They wouldn't be at high levels if they were. But how many beginners have sniffy dogs and have to work very hard to build focus? Or give up and don't even make it to trials? That is what I'm talking about. And I'm not even saying all spaniels are like that. That wasn't my point at all either. But it sounds like you're making blanket statements that the OP or any spaniel owner won't have sniffy issues and that's just not true. Ive seen sniffing issues in a variety of breeds for various reasons and it stands to reason that breeds bred to use their noses are going to have a harder time learning to work through that specific distraction sometimes. Such is life, doesn't mean they can't excel at agility but they might require extra work on focus.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> You should definitely not be writing it off because of breed, especially when it's breed MIX is basically what I'm getting at here.


Right - I'm pretty sure she's a spaniel... mix... something... lol
I've had a few people suggest Setter... but I don't know. She does have that long, lean body. Definitely not the head type.

As for indoor vs outdoor, we only have ONE person here who does agility classes. Her course is small and outdoors. If I had the time/money/etc, I would love to just put together a nice indoor agility ring and get more local people into it. I'm not sure where the trials are around here, but I don't believe there's anything very close. There are dog shows at our local Civic Center (maybe once/year?) they have obedience competitions there, but it's AKC and I don't know if they have an agility trial as part of it or not.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Maybe I'm not explaining well, but I'm talking about the beginning dogs and novice handlers here. Not high level competitors. Of course the high level dogs are not taking off sniffing. They wouldn't be at high levels if they were. But how many beginners have sniffy dogs and have to work very hard to build focus? Or give up and don't even make it to trials? That is what I'm talking about. And I'm not even saying all spaniels are like that. That wasn't my point at all either. But it sounds like you're making blanket statements that the OP or any spaniel owner won't have sniffy issues and that's just not true. Ive seen sniffing issues in a variety of breeds for various reasons and it stands to reason that breeds bred to use their noses are going to have a harder time learning to work through that specific distraction sometimes.


Honestly? I don't even see it in Intro dogs - who aren't even up to novice (ie: can't weave and often don't know crosses) and have maybe 12 weeks of classes - across the board, all breeds. I see them RUN OFF, but not with their nose to the ground. Toward the ring crew, toward the walls/gates, toward other dogs, or do zoomies but not tracking- not even with their heads down. If they're sniffing at all, it's dogs sitting stationary in place and frozen and it looks more like displacement or stress. Even the ones I've seen in class (which is admittedly a much, much, smaller sample size) I don't see it during exercises. Between, yes, the odd bit of a sniff around a target if they lose their food, but that's been IT. 

I don't know why. I really do believe breed matters and different breeds come with different challenges. 

But it's not something I've seen from any level of dog in agility, even the field brits and ess and weims and beagles - and those are all represented in some numbers.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

What region do you live in? Others may be able to point you towards some other places. You may have to drive a bit. I drive 50min to one agility place and 80min to the other.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> Honestly? I don't even see it in Intro dogs - who aren't even up to novice (ie: can't weave and often don't know crosses) and have maybe 12 weeks of classes - across the board, all breeds. I see them RUN OFF, but not with their nose to the ground. Toward the ring crew, toward the walls/gates, toward other dogs, or do zoomies but not tracking- not even with their heads down. If they're sniffing at all, it's dogs sitting stationary in place and frozen and it looks more like displacement or stress. Even the ones I've seen in class (which is admittedly a much, much, smaller sample size) I don't see it during exercises. Between, yes, the odd bit of a sniff around a target if they lose their food, but that's been IT.
> 
> I don't know why. I really do believe breed matters and different breeds come with different challenges.
> 
> But it's not something I've seen from any level of dog in agility, even the field brits and ess and weims and beagles - and those are all represented in some numbers.


Mane it's just mine then? He will take off and sniff for barn cats in that arena if I let him. Just tooling around nose to the ground like he does in the woods at home. Not even saying that some of that isn't stress, but I don't think he would be hunting for cats using his nose if he were not the dog and breed he is. 

I also know spaniel people online who struggle with the same isues, and have heard from others who see the same things with spaniels and britts in local shows. Lots of Welshie people will not do obedience or rally outdoors for a reason. So I know it's not just mine.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Mane it's just mine then? He will take off and sniff for barn cats in that arena if I let him. Just tooling around nose to the ground like he does in the woods at home. Not even saying that some of that isn't stress, but I don't think he would be hunting for cats using his nose if he were not the dog and breed he is.
> 
> I also know spaniel people online who struggle with the same isues, and have heard from others who see the same things with spaniels and britts in local shows. Lots of Welshie people will not do obedience or rally outdoors for a reason. So I know it's not just mine.


I really, really doubt it's just you  I'm definitely not discounting it, just saying it's not something I really see. 

It could be a matter of the dogs I see being MORE into agility than into things like cats and bunnies or birds, regardless of lines. It could be because of value built in agility/confidence with it as opposed to hunting/sniffing experience and lack of. It could be that we use huge public parks most of the time and those aren't exactly wildlife havens, anyway. It could be that they're just crazy excited about the new places and therefore lack the focus even FOR sniffing as opposed to just zoomies - ie: they're so distracted even sniffing isn't an option. It could be that most of them are altered (in fact all but the golden might be, but I'm not sure.) It could be some combination of all of it. 

I honestly, really, don't know.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I really, really doubt it's just you  I'm definitely not discounting it, just saying it's not something I really see.
> 
> It could be a matter of the dogs I see being MORE into agility than into things like cats and bunnies or birds, regardless of lines. It could be because of value built in agility/confidence with it as opposed to hunting/sniffing experience and lack of. It could be that we use huge public parks most of the time and those aren't exactly wildlife havens, anyway. It could be that they're just crazy excited about the new places and therefore lack the focus even FOR sniffing as opposed to just zoomies - ie: they're so distracted even sniffing isn't an option. It could be that most of them are altered (in fact all but the golden might be, but I'm not sure.) It could be some combination of all of it.
> 
> I honestly, really, don't know.


I think Watson has a whole combination of problems. LOL He would be sniffing obsessed no matter what, but it doesn't help that he is still not convinced agility is the best thing ever. He doesn't have natural drive for the game. And he's intact. And a young male. Hazel is much more like the typical Aussies and English shepherds we see in class - high prey drive but for movement, not really that into sniffing, must more eager to please/work. And now that I think about it, the friends I have online with spaniels who struggle with engagement against the environment (ECS, boykin, ESS) all have males I think, intact and neutered. So gender is probably a big factor.

ETA: Just something to consider when wanting to do sports with spaniels. I think they are happy and eager to please and learn quickly, but some do struggle to focus and engage when the environment around them is so enticing. Easier than than more independent breeds though I'm sure.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> But it sounds like you're making blanket statements that the OP or any spaniel owner won't have sniffy issues and that's just not true. Ive seen sniffing issues in a variety of breeds for various reasons and it stands to reason that breeds bred to use their noses are going to have a harder time learning to work through that specific distraction sometimes. Such is life, doesn't mean they can't excel at agility but they might require extra work on focus.


I am not making blanket statements what so ever. I am saying that I don't see many dogs sniffing in the ring. I have been in this sport for MANY years and have seen all types of breeds and at all levels of training. I didn't say it doesn't happen. It is a fast paced sport. There is little time for sniffing inside the ring. I have seen a few dogs get distracted by something and stop and roll in what ever smell was on the ground, but that has only been one or two times in the many years I have been training and competing. 




> Honestly? I don't even see it in Intro dogs - who aren't even up to novice (ie: can't weave and often don't know crosses) and have maybe 12 weeks of classes - across the board, all breeds. I see them RUN OFF, but not with their nose to the ground. Toward the ring crew, toward the walls/gates, toward other dogs, or do zoomies but not tracking- not even with their heads down. If they're sniffing at all, it's dogs sitting stationary in place and frozen and it looks more like displacement or stress. Even the ones I've seen in class (which is admittedly a much, much, smaller sample size) I don't see it during exercises. Between, yes, the odd bit of a sniff around a target if they lose their food, but that's been IT.
> 
> I don't know why. I really do believe breed matters and different breeds come with different challenges.
> 
> But it's not something I've seen from any level of dog in agility, even the field brits and ess and weims and beagles - and those are all represented in some numbers.


Yep...my experience exactly.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

So Cavalier said:


> I am not making blanket statements what so ever. I am saying that I don't see many dogs sniffing in the ring. I have been in this sport for MANY years and have seen all types of breeds and at all levels of training. I didn't say it doesn't happen. It is a fast paced sport. There is little time for sniffing inside the ring.


But most people don't enter trials if they think their dog is going to take off sniffing. They continue to train until they won't have that problem. So my point is that you probably *won't* see that behavior in the ring. But it doesn't mean the owner hasn't spent time working through it in the background.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

elrohwen said:


> But most people don't enter trials if they think their dog is going to take off sniffing. They continue to train until they won't have that problem. So my point is that you probably *won't* see that behavior in the ring. But it doesn't mean the owner hasn't spent time working through it in the background.


No point in arguing with you. Because your spaniel has a problem with sniffing, doesn't mean all or even most will. Done. Bye!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

So Cavalier said:


> No point in arguing with you. Because your spaniel has a problem with sniffing, doesn't mean all or even most will. Done. Bye!


Ok? I'm just sharing what I have observed with my dog and with others I have spoken to and worked with online from a variety of spaniel breeds. I'm not being combative. It's a forum, everybody can share their experiences.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

elrohwen said:


> Ok? I'm just sharing what I have observed with my dog and with others I have spoken to and worked with online from a variety of spaniel breeds. I'm not being combative. It's a forum, everybody can share their experiences.


And I am sharing what I have experienced and personally have seen having been actively in the sport for over 10 years and training a dog to a championship level. Not all dogs are cut out for agility. I stopped training one of my Cavaliers because he didn't enjoy the sport. I have seen lots of people take beginning classes and never come back. I have seen people train "unusual" breeds to high levels of competition. I have seen just about every combination you can imagine. Heck, I even once saw a competitor in a motorized chair compete (not sure if he was FEO or not). I just don't want the OP to think that because she has a spaniel, she shouldn't give it a try if that is what she wants to do.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

So Cavalier said:


> And I am sharing what I have experienced and personally have seen having been actively in the sport for over 10 years and training a dog to a championship level. Not all dogs are cut out for agility. I stopped training one of my Cavaliers because he didn't enjoy the sport. I have seen lots of people take beginning classes and never come back. I have seen people train "unusual" breeds to high levels of competition. I have seen just about every combination you can imagine. Heck, I even once saw a competitor in a motorized chair compete (not sure if he was FEO or not). I just don't want the OP to think that because she has a spaniel, she shouldn't give it a try if that is what she wants to do.


Oh I agree! I mentioned multiple times that they are great dogs to train with and can excel at agility. I was just sharing something that I have seen be an issue for myself and others and require a little extra time and effort. Like saying "border collies tend towards reactivity" to warn people that they may need to spend extra time working on that and should be aware it could come up. Doesn't mean it will though and doesn't mean they aren't still awesome at sports.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> What region do you live in? Others may be able to point you towards some other places. You may have to drive a bit. I drive 50min to one agility place and 80min to the other.


My apologies. I realized I don't have my location in my profile yet.
I live in Southern West Virginia (Beckley, to be specific).


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Ok? I'm just sharing what I have observed with my dog and with others I have spoken to and worked with online from a variety of spaniel breeds. I'm not being combative. It's a forum, everybody can share their experiences.


I agree... I don't see any hostility in your posts. I find all of the information helpful.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

susielam570 said:


> My apologies. I realized I don't have my location in my profile yet.
> I live in Southern West Virginia (Beckley, to be specific).


Hmmm. I think CptJack might be reasonably close to you? I think she's in Virginia.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Also, regional FB groups are the best thing ever for finding stuff in your area. All you need are one or two people who are experienced in the sports you want to do and they can tell you about all sorts of opportunities that you wouldn't have found on a google search.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

So Cavalier said:


> And I am sharing what I have experienced and personally have seen having been actively in the sport for over 10 years and training a dog to a championship level. Not all dogs are cut out for agility. I stopped training one of my Cavaliers because he didn't enjoy the sport. I have seen lots of people take beginning classes and never come back. I have seen people train "unusual" breeds to high levels of competition. I have seen just about every combination you can imagine. Heck, I even once saw a competitor in a motorized chair compete (not sure if he was FEO or not). I just don't want the OP to think that because she has a spaniel, she shouldn't give it a try if that is what she wants to do.


No worries! It doesn't discourage me to know that 'hunting/sniffing behavior' might be a problem. The entire reason I asked was to get some head's-up on what challenges I might be facing, breed-wise. A challenge doesn't discourage me, and it may not even be an issue with my dog.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Oh, I also meant to say that I went to your other post and looked at the pics trying to figure out what she might be. I would buy brittany mix for sure. Something about the head shape doesn't look like brittany or spaniel, but I can't think of what it reminds me off. She's very striking and pretty! Love the tail. My female has a full tail and she often carries it over her back (though not that curled). Sometimes in traditionally docked breeds you don't always know what you'll get when you start leaving tails.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Hmmm. I think CptJack might be reasonably close to you? I think she's in Virginia.


Depends on what part of Virginia she's in. It's a very long State.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

susielam570 said:


> Depends on what part of Virginia she's in. It's a very long State.


Haha. Fair enough! Though for some reason I think she's in the western part, which wouldn't be too far from southern WV. I know she's complained about lack of places to do agility as well.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Oh, I also meant to say that I went to your other post and looked at the pics trying to figure out what she might be. I would buy brittany mix for sure. Something about the head shape doesn't look like brittany or spaniel, but I can't think of what it reminds me off. She's very striking and pretty! Love the tail. My female has a full tail and she often carries it over her back (though not that curled). Sometimes in traditionally docked breeds you don't always know what you'll get when you start leaving tails.


Most people have been saying 'Brittany', but I agree, the head doesn't look quite right to my eyes. I've heard everything from Pit to Cocker suggested, due to her head shape. She doesn't have that super squooshy sweet head that Spaniels typically have, and it's broad, but broader in the forehead, not so much the jaws. I've also had people tell me that she might be purebred Brittany, but she might come from 'working lines', where they don't pay attention to things like head shape. I doubt it though. Whatever she is, we enjoy her.  Thanks!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> My apologies. I realized I don't have my location in my profile yet.
> I live in Southern West Virginia (Beckley, to be specific).


Ahahah. Yep, I'm in your neighborhood. (I'm actually on the western edge of the NRV, but grew up across the line from Bluefield). I think you might even have contacted one of my trainers looking for someone in your area? (Or if not there is someone else out there looking in Beckley.). 

The nearest I know of, personally, is All American Dog Sports - but that's out of Blacksburg and it's going to be a trek for you, though less of one than going all the way to Star City (though I do some Star City things) She's my primary trainer. She does some privates but mostly does evening classes through Flying Fur Day Care.



elrohwen said:


> Haha. Fair enough! Though for some reason I think she's in the western part, which wouldn't be too far from southern WV. I know she's complained about lack of places to do agility as well.


YEP! Same area.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

susielam570 said:


> Most people have been saying 'Brittany', but I agree, the head doesn't look quite right to my eyes. I've heard everything from Pit to Cocker suggested, due to her head shape. She doesn't have that super squooshy sweet head that Spaniels typically have, and it's broad, but broader in the forehead, not so much the jaws. I've also had people tell me that she might be purebred Brittany, but she might come from 'working lines', where they don't pay attention to things like head shape. I doubt it though. Whatever she is, we enjoy her.  Thanks!


It almost looks like the heads on some goldens I know. There are some with very broad foreheads and shorter muzzles.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> Ahahah. Yep, I'm in your neighborhood. (I'm actually on the western edge of the NRV, but grew up across the line from Bluefield). I think you might even have contacted one of my trainers looking for someone in your area? (Or if not there is someone else out there looking in Beckley.).
> 
> The nearest I know of, personally, is All American Dog Sports - but that's out of Blacksburg and it's going to be a trek for you, though less of one than going all the way to Star City (though I do some Star City things) She's my primary trainer. She does some privates but mostly does evening classes through Flying Fur Day Care.
> 
> YEP! Same area.


Cool  There is a place that is local called Walnut Ridge Farms. It's run by a gal named Laura and I met her MANY years ago when I used to do obedience training in the area. As I said earlier, she just has a small, outdoor agility area set up. I'm SURE there are other people, in this area, who have agility equipment... just finding them


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> Cool  There is a place that is local called Walnut Ridge Farms. It's run by a gal named Laura and I met her MANY years ago when I used to do obedience training in the area. As I said earlier, she just has a small, outdoor agility area set up. I'm SURE there are other people, in this area, who have agility equipment... just finding them


If nothing else you might investigate/email Andrea at ADDS and asking about getting on her email blast/mailing list. She has a HUGE agility field and lots of equipment and she hosts practices. It's outdoors, but it's *fenced*, and it really is pretty massive. All she asks in exchange for attending those practices is volunteering at a trial we host, even if you don't run yourself. So you can get months of weekly practices in exchange for leash running for a day, or running scribe sheets or some of the easy jobs -

and the trials are cool to go to to watch, too and a good way for figuring out the game.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> It almost looks like the heads on some goldens I know. There are some with very broad foreheads and shorter muzzles.


I agree! That might be it. If so, it's the only part of her that looks like Golden genetics though. She almost looks like her body has the head of a different dog. Not to put her down or anything, she's a great dog.

I also see that you have rabbits. I have Mini Lops and decided to get into breeding them... then ran into some problems and ended up deciding not to go down that path anymore. :/ We still have 5 rabbits though (I'm hoping to get it down to 3).


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> If nothing else you might investigate/email Andrea at ADDS and asking about getting on her email blast/mailing list. She has a HUGE agility field and lots of equipment and she hosts practices. It's outdoors, but it's *fenced*, and it really is pretty massive. All she asks in exchange for attending those practices is volunteering at a trial we host, even if you don't run yourself. So you can get months of weekly practices in exchange for leash running for a day, or running scribe sheets or some of the easy jobs -
> 
> and the trials are cool to go to to watch, too and a good way for figuring out the game.


That's a GREAT idea! Thanks  Should I mention your name? I do get to the Blackburg area on a fairly regular basis. Some of my (in-laws, sort of) live there and we visit pretty often.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> That's a GREAT idea! Thanks  Should I mention your name? I do get to the Blackburg area on a fairly regular basis. Some of my (in-laws, sort of) live there and we visit pretty often.


Let me PM you!


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> Whatever she is, we enjoy her. Thanks!


That's exactly how I feel about my up and coming agility dog, the fluffy white one in my avatar. I hope you and your dog connect with the sport. You will meet some of the best people in the whole world. I have made so many friends because of agility. People who just love playing with their dogs. Although we do compete, we are having fun first and foremost. When it stops being fun, we will stop.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Also, regional FB groups are the best thing ever for finding stuff in your area. All you need are one or two people who are experienced in the sports you want to do and they can tell you about all sorts of opportunities that you wouldn't have found on a google search.


Thanks  I did search around on Facebook a bit, but didn't find anything particularly helpful. The groups can be a little difficult to find on there sometimes though. I'm sure there is something.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

So Cavalier said:


> That's exactly how I feel about my up and coming agility dog, the fluffy white one in my avatar. I hope you and your dog connect with the sport. You will meet some of the best people in the whole world. I have made so many friends because of agility. People who just love playing with their dogs. Although we do compete, we are having fun first and foremost. When it stops being fun, we will stop.


Looks like a cute, fluffy agility dog.  I have little interest in doing Agility for anything aside from fun (and errr... exercise...) and hopefully getting my son into it... and building Sadie's confidence and... lol well, I guess I have several reasons, but fun is primary. I just know myself well enough to know that I rarely do anything 'lightly'.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> Looks like a cute, fluffy agility dog.  I have little interest in doing Agility for anything aside from fun (and errr... exercise...) and hopefully getting my son into it... and building Sadie's confidence and... lol well, I guess I have several reasons, but fun is primary. I just know myself well enough to know that I rarely do anything 'lightly'.


Honestly, I have seen so many people start and do classes with agility and every single person who has stuck to it has said 'I'm doing this for the dog'. Not one single person who went in and started wanting to compete, with their first dog, ever stuck around. 

There's a lot of boring foundation training that seems to turn them off, or something.

I started with a shy, timid, dog who had no confidence and my first classes I said "I hate this but it's good for the dog so whatever." Then we started doing more fun stuff and I went "Eh, it's okay and I like getting out." From there I said "Maybe I'll just do one trial, just to say I did." That was in April. 

I'm never, ever, quitting. Ever. I LOVE THIS STUFF. It is the only adrenaline rush I really like, I love the people and I LOVE the communication it has built between me and my dog. Furthermore? I freaking ADORE what it has done for my timid, no toy/play drive, tiny little dog. 

Let me repeat. 

I started with a timid, overly serious, completely lacking in confidence dog who had no toy or play drive.




























Never, ever, going to be able to overstress how great this has been for the dog.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> Honestly, I have seen so many people start and do classes with agility and every single person who has stuck to it has said 'I'm doing this for the dog'. Not one single person who went in and started wanting to compete, with their first dog, ever stuck around.
> 
> There's a lot of boring foundation training that seems to turn them off, or something.
> 
> ...


Well, those are not only fantastic pictures, but she looks wonderful! Some type of Corgi? Miniature Collie? Is she a mix? Super encouraging to see such a happy looking girl.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

susielam570 said:


> I agree! That might be it. If so, it's the only part of her that looks like Golden genetics though. She almost looks like her body has the head of a different dog. Not to put her down or anything, she's a great dog.
> 
> I also see that you have rabbits. I have Mini Lops and decided to get into breeding them... then ran into some problems and ended up deciding not to go down that path anymore. :/ We still have 5 rabbits though (I'm hoping to get it down to 3).


I have a mini lop and holland lop bonded pair!  They are so cute. I just love lops. Mine are getting up in age (turning 9 and 7 next month) and I don't think we'll get more right away when they pass, but maybe some day. If I have a kid who wants a "pet of his/her own" I would totally get them a bunny that would really be my bunny. lol They are fun little pets.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> Well, those are not only fantastic pictures, but she looks wonderful! Some type of Corgi? Miniature Collie? Is she a mix? Super encouraging to see such a happy looking girl.


She's some kind of mutt. I have no idea about specifics. I tend to just call her a chi mix but what that mix is is very up in the air. Freaking fantastic, though, regardless


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

I was told that Sadie doesn't care for toys...

RIP Squeaky Penguin


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> I have a mini lop and holland lop bonded pair!  They are so cute. I just love lops. Mine are getting up in age (turning 9 and 7 next month) and I don't think we'll get more right away when they pass, but maybe some day. If I have a kid who wants a "pet of his/her own" I would totally get them a bunny that would really be my bunny. lol They are fun little pets.


I enjoy our bunnies. Sadie seems pretty good about ignoring them, so I'm going to try letting one of the buns out (under close supervision of course) to see if she does well with them. It would be good training for her anyway.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> She's some kind of mutt. I have no idea about specifics. I tend to just call her a chi mix but what that mix is is very up in the air. Freaking fantastic, though, regardless


Possibly some Chi (maybe long-haired), doesn't really look the body type to me though. I think she's built more solid, like one of the herding breeds. Cutie, whatever she is.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

susielam570 said:


> I enjoy our bunnies. Sadie seems pretty good about ignoring them, so I'm going to try letting one of the buns out (under close supervision of course) to see if she does well with them. It would be good training for her anyway.


Mine are not bunny safe. My adult can ignore them through a baby gate, though the last time he was face to face through an xpen he snapped at one of the bunnies. But mostly I think he would hurt them through over exuberance. My puppy is wild and really high prey drive. I have no doubt that she would kill them if she could get to them. I feel bad that they are locked away all the time (though they have our whole dining room right off the kitchen) so that's a big reason I don't want more any time soon.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Mine are not bunny safe. My adult can ignore them through a baby gate, though the last time he was face to face through an xpen he snapped at one of the bunnies. But mostly I think he would hurt them through over exuberance. My puppy is wild and really high prey drive. I have no doubt that she would kill them if she could get to them. I feel bad that they are locked away all the time (though they have our whole dining room right off the kitchen) so that's a big reason I don't want more any time soon.


Right - rabbits are one of those critters that everything eats, so it's pretty hard for dogs to resist. I've seen it done though!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

susielam570 said:


> Right - rabbits are one of those critters that everything eats, so it's pretty hard for dogs to resist. I've seen it done though!


I had high hopes when I got Watson, and I know people who have really great dog-bunny interactions, but I gave up after a while as he got more and more aroused by them. Luckily we have a big enough house that everybody can be separate but still near the people.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

susielam570 said:


> Right - rabbits are one of those critters that everything eats, so it's pretty hard for dogs to resist. I've seen it done though!










\

It can be done, yes, but Kylie has zero prey-drive at all. Not even herder type prey-drive where they want to chase. She's mostly just... long suffering and ignores. I can let my BC around them supervised without her doing anything but I'd never, ever, let the others be around them without a barrier. It'd just be a dead rabbit.


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## susielam570 (Dec 29, 2015)

CptJack said:


> \
> 
> It can be done, yes, but Kylie has zero prey-drive at all. Not even herder type prey-drive where they want to chase. She's mostly just... long suffering and ignores. I can let my BC around them supervised without her doing anything but I'd never, ever, let the others be around them without a barrier. It'd just be a dead rabbit.


AWWWWWWWWWW *cuteness overload*


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> \
> 
> It can be done, yes, but Kylie has zero prey-drive at all. Not even herder type prey-drive where they want to chase. She's mostly just... long suffering and ignores. I can let my BC around them supervised without her doing anything but I'd never, ever, let the others be around them without a barrier. It'd just be a dead rabbit.


That is frickin adorable.

Have you seen the video going around FB of the shiba inu (or is it akita?) and the bunny who binkies around and then flops next to him? Melts my heart.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> That is frickin adorable.
> 
> Have you seen the video going around FB of the shiba inu (or is it akita?) and the bunny who binkies around and then flops next to him? Melts my heart.


I have not, but now I need to go find it. Honestly there is NOTHING cuter than a happy, relaxed, bunny. Add dog and it's a recipe for perfection.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

We put Hazel in the bunny room at 8 weeks, holding her collar, to see what she would do. I figured she would be politely curious, like Watson was, but her tail started going and she just turned *on* and would have lunged at them right there. That was that, no more meeting bunnies for her. We've just focused on pretending they don't exist.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> We put Hazel in the bunny room at 8 weeks, holding her collar, to see what she would do. I figured she would be politely curious, like Watson was, but her tail started going and she just turned *on* and would have lunged at them right there. That was that, no more meeting bunnies for her. We've just focused on pretending they don't exist.


Yeah. I don't even acknowledge they exist with Thud, Jack, or Bug. No way, no how. They're way too driven to hunt/kill small animals in all three cases. Kylie meeting them I KNEW was going to be reasonably safe. Molly I felt okay with, because she's got a strong enough leave it that she won't do what she's not allowed to (though she'd chase the heck out of them and do damage if I wasn't there giving orders and managing). Molly sees them once in a blue moon when I'm in there and for a second doing some errand. KYLIE gets to hang out in there when I do. Everyone else? Two closed, solid doors between them and the dogs. It's just not safe.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> Yeah. I don't even acknowledge they exist with Thud, Jack, or Bug. No way, no how. They're way too driven to hunt/kill small animals in all three cases. Kylie meeting them I KNEW was going to be reasonably safe. Molly I felt okay with, because she's got a strong enough leave it that she won't do what she's not allowed to (though she'd chase the heck out of them and do damage if I wasn't there giving orders and managing). Molly sees them once in a blue moon when I'm in there and for a second doing some errand. KYLIE gets to hang out in there when I do. Everyone else? Two closed, solid doors between them and the dogs. It's just not safe.


Watson is left out in the kitchen and they are only on the other side of a baby gate. But he's ignored them through that gate for 2 years, and is terrified of baby gates so I know he won't challenge it. He is much worse at the other doorway where it's only an xpen, because he knows they'll come right up to him, so we keep a physical door shut. 

I will never trust Hazel unsupervised with only a baby gate to separate them. She is always putting her feet up there to look at them and we're always working on ignoring. She listens well but I wouldn't trust her not to vault over it if she were alone.


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