# Jumping at me at full speed



## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Almost daily I take the dogs down to a nearby duck pond and grassy area, where they can run around like maniacs and burn some energy. It makes them easier to live with.

Trouble is, Obi will run at me at full speed, and instead of going around me, he jumps at me and hits me at full speed.

I need him to stop doing it. I seriously worry that he will break or tear something from the impact, which means the long term effect can't be good. And also, it hurts and I'm sick of dirty wet paw prints on my pants.

I'd like to not have to resort to P+ if I can. The only form of P+ I can think of in this situation is to yell at him as he's approaching, and I'm not sure that would work with him being really wound up...

Any ideas, please?


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Long ago when my dog did that to me, successfully clipping me, I very strategically fell on him, knocking the breath out of me and making him yelp. But, he stopped. Successful P+ for both of us  No, I don't suggest that, and it wasn't funny when he knocked my feet from under me, but it was kinda (sadistically) funny when he yelped, didn't get an apology from me, ... then came over to lick me and apologize to me. He was a 9 mos, 70 Lb Lab at the time... so I only hurt his feelings for a moment.

Now that I've indulged myself, you might try re-conditioning Obi, by calling him and making him sit, just before he gets over-excited, then when he calms for a moment, let him go back to play... And, keep it up.

Or you can try a squirt gun, clapped hands, a police whistle, a small piece of boiled chicken, a Yelp! or No! yelled in his face ... something to distract him, startle him, and redirect him. I'm assuming he's trying to encourage you to join him in his exuberance... and one of these may persuade him that you don't want to play...

Interesting question - What would happen if you ran at him, as he was running at you... would he turn and try to get you to chase him.... Caveat Canine!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

hanksimon said:


> Interesting question - What would happen if you ran at him, as he was running at you... would he turn and try to get you to chase him.... Caveat Canine!


I was going to suggest walking towards him quickly and determinedly when you see him headed your direction.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Seeing as you have both suggested walking/running towards him, I'll try that first. Then maybe try a whistle or squirt gun etc if it doesn't work. Thanks

As for the reason why he jumps up, I honestly think he just enjoys it. He's a JRT x, and he jumps at doors to have them opened, jumps at the kitchen counter when I'm preparing his food, jumps/bounces at me when I return home, etc.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

I wish I had a dog small enough to jump into my arms! If it was me, I'd kneel down, offering a leg at an angle. When he ran up it, I'd catch him. The trick can be modified into a body-vault (similar to the box turn in flyball) if he's trained to catch something like a disc.

But I know I'm strange and you really want the behavior to stop, so feel free to ignore this. I'm just rambling.


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## R.Scott (Sep 18, 2011)

I would run towards him "growling" as he's running towards you. Lol! Basically say "I'm jumping at you this time! So you better run!"
I like to run at my dogs when they are running towards me (they never jumped at me though) but I chase them for fun. They like it!


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I wish I had a dog small enough to jump into my arms! If it was me, I'd kneel down, offering a leg at an angle. When he ran up it, I'd catch him. The trick can be modified into a body-vault (similar to the box turn in flyball) if he's trained to catch something like a disc.
> 
> But I know I'm strange and you really want the behavior to stop, so feel free to ignore this. I'm just rambling.


I actually like that, and I am planning on starting flyball with him in the near future, so I'll try that  Know any videos that demonstrate it?


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

If you are facing him when he begins to run at you, what would happen if you stay in the same spot but simply turn yourself away ? ... ie: no face / eye contact.

You could also throw in another calming signal ... a deep yawn or an exposed jugular etc. as he approaches, and when he ceases his charge, praise him.

Calming signals seem to be the natural way that dogs deal with unwanted jousting matches amongst themselves.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I have the same problem with Pierce only he is 67 lbs of muscle & bone, my weapon of choice is a flyswatter used only on the full speed romps. Regular jump up does not bother me cause he is a new dog and we are learning to be civilized to each other at a more leisurely pace. The full speed thing has to be quickly adjusted cause of possible injury to wife or I. Good news is it's pretty hard to cause injury to dog with a flyswatter unless you reverse it and hit with the handle.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

One thing you can start teaching him is that jumping up doesn't work. So for doors etc., make him sit first before you open the door. It's amazing how quickly they learn this once you start. Same with food, if he jumps up and is acting crazy about dinner, stop making it and go do something else, then come back later. You can even do things like get the bowls and food out during the day, then put it back. If he's calm at dinnertime, he gets fed, if he's wild, you're going to go watch TV for a while. You can also hold a treat/toy and tempt him to jump on you, while you step on his leash so there's not enough leash for him to get too far up and he'll 'self correct'. 

When he's running at you stand firm, stiffen up or stomp into his direction, that's usually enough of a signal for him to knock it off. I remember meeting up with a friend for a walk and she said her dog was horrible about crashing into other dogs. Storee stood her ground with him, stiffened up and gave him the look the first time he was coming in her direction - he changed his path and went around her and never did crash into her on the whole walk. Other dogs for sure, but not Storee....

Lana


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## pi1otguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Bordermom said:


> One thing you can start teaching him is that jumping up doesn't work. Lana


Depends on why she does that. My dog jumps on me too but it's never to get food or anything from me but just her wait of saying "hi". It mainly happens when she sees me after I've been gone for over 1 hr. I've tried ignoring it and I've also tried turning to the side but she still does it.

The most successful thing I've done is to talk into her space and leave forward suddenly just before the jump to get her off balance when she lands. If I continue to tower over her I've got a 75% chance that she'll stop jumping.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm afraid I dont have any good advice, but a lot of sympathy. ET, my lab, has done this several times. I cant understand why? It's got to hurt her too. I've taken to jumping out of the way at the last second to avoid being knocked over. She doesnt jump up on me though, she just runs, full speed, straight into me. When she was a puppy with bad recall, I was kneeling, looking at the ground, trying to get her to come to me. She came running so fast and hit me in the face with her skull. It dang near knocked me out. LOL!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 25, 2011)

Sam does this to me, usually at the beginning of our walks when she is wound up. I made it very clear that I didn't like it by giving her a sharp "No" or "eheh" while pointing my finger at her (i don't know why, but all my dogs hate it when I point a finger at them. Weird...) and even stopping her physically with my hand or leg if I had to. Now she stops about 3 feet away from me, turns around, and races in the other direction. If she forgets to be civilized, all it takes is a warning "Saaaam"...and she remembers to be good.


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

I wave a skineez(toy) in the air and toss it. Kaki will channel her excitement into the toy and the crisis is averted. This was my solution to her herding/pinning me, not jumping. But it seems like it might still help redircting obi's exuberance.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

petpeeve said:


> If you are facing him when he begins to run at you, what would happen if you stay in the same spot but simply turn yourself away ? ... ie: no face / eye contact.
> 
> You could also throw in another calming signal ... a deep yawn or an exposed jugular etc. as he approaches, and when he ceases his charge, praise him.
> 
> Calming signals seem to be the natural way that dogs deal with unwanted jousting matches amongst themselves.


I have tried turning side on (mostly to brace myself) and that doesn't affect him at all. P- doesn't work well for this dog, because he's used to having to keep trying and try harder to get something from being shaped since puppyhood, so if he has to wait a little bit longer for his reward it doesn't bother him. He just thinks it's one of those times where he has to work harder, and he *eventually* got the reward so to him it's all good. The only form of P- I have found that works is to banish him from the room where I'm training/playing with Pixie and just exclude him from all the fun. But I can't really do that in a field outside...



Bordermom said:


> One thing you can start teaching him is that jumping up doesn't work. So for doors etc., make him sit first before you open the door. It's amazing how quickly they learn this once you start. Same with food, if he jumps up and is acting crazy about dinner, stop making it and go do something else, then come back later. You can even do things like get the bowls and food out during the day, then put it back. If he's calm at dinnertime, he gets fed, if he's wild, you're going to go watch TV for a while. You can also hold a treat/toy and tempt him to jump on you, while you step on his leash so there's not enough leash for him to get too far up and he'll 'self correct'.
> 
> When he's running at you stand firm, stiffen up or stomp into his direction, that's usually enough of a signal for him to knock it off. I remember meeting up with a friend for a walk and she said her dog was horrible about crashing into other dogs. Storee stood her ground with him, stiffened up and gave him the look the first time he was coming in her direction - he changed his path and went around her and never did crash into her on the whole walk. Other dogs for sure, but not Storee....
> 
> Lana


The door thing doesn't work. He already knows to sit at doors to have them opened, he's known that since he was about 13 weeks old. It's when he knows we're headed out he runs ahead and charges at the door, then he sits nicely waiting for me to open it. I didn't mind, but recently hubby told me he doesn't like him jumping at the doors, so I've now started stopping in my tracks when he does it, stand frozen for 10 seconds, and then keep walking towards the door. If he jumps again I freeze again, and so on. He has to have not jumped up for at least 10 seconds before I will open the door.

I've been doing this for 2-3 weeks now, and most of the time he doesn't jump up at the doors anymore, but when he gets excited he still does it.

I'll try stomping towards him, but still not convinced it will work 



Labmom4 said:


> I'm afraid I dont have any good advice, but a lot of sympathy. ET, my lab, has done this several times. I cant understand why? It's got to hurt her too. I've taken to jumping out of the way at the last second to avoid being knocked over. She doesnt jump up on me though, she just runs, full speed, straight into me. When she was a puppy with bad recall, I was kneeling, looking at the ground, trying to get her to come to me. She came running so fast and hit me in the face with her skull. It dang near knocked me out. LOL!


I try to step out of the way too. Sometimes he misses me, sometimes he adjusts for it and hits me anyway. Silly dog.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

lil_fuzzy said:


> I actually like that, and I am planning on starting flyball with him in the near future, so I'll try that  Know any videos that demonstrate it?


Well, I'm no flyball enthusiast, but they should teach you box turns in flyball, so that may be a good place to start. Here's a disc video that demonstrates it well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMvUDj2ovwA
I've never built up the courage to try it with my 40lb dog, so I can't really advise you on how to teach it.

Also, be sure to wear protective gear if you try this. You mentioned that you hate your clothes getting dirty, and I feel you there - I wore nothing but black for 4 months after adopting Kit because she would have ruined every piece of clothing I owned. But even more than paw prints, nails (even trimmed ones) can do a lot of damage to clothes/skin. If I was going to try this disc move, I'd wear a neoprene vest and neoprene shorts under or over jeans and long sleeves.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Wow, that looks cool. Definitely something to try. Thanks


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

I know you've said he's 'wound up' at the time, but I'm wondering ... does he have a Drop on Recall ? Just thinkin'.

I also like the idea of teaching him to jump up, deliberately, so it's on cue. Sorta like the way you'd put barking on cue in order to obtain a quiet.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

No, he doesn't know the drop on recall. He does know a distance sit, but it's new and at the moment he only does it when he's heading away from me and not wound up.

Tried walking towards him, didn't deter him at all.


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

Simply teach him no jumping on you. You don't have to be mean, don't have to hurt them. You can practice this when they are not running at you as well. Simply start with being all excited asking them to jump up on you. When they do just say "NO, Off", you don't have to raise your voice. Then raise your knee to block them. Get all excited let them jump up again, say "NO, Off" It is important you use the word off. Most people say down. But down means something else. It is confusing to them. You need to teach him the Off command. Anyway keep repeating this. What ever it takes to get them to keep jumping up on you, treats toys etc. Pretty soon they wont jump up on you, 5-10 tries usually. Do this a couple times a day. Do this first before you move it to outside. When he comes running at you simply say No, Off and raise your knee. He should get the point pretty clear, no jumping up.

Your dog needs to learn not to jump on people. It is fine to try the throwing a ball or something but suppose your dog run to jump on a child or and Old lady. He is just playing but they aren't and they aren't ready for it.


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

lil_fuzzy said:


> The door thing doesn't work. He already knows to sit at doors to have them opened, he's known that since he was about 13 weeks old. It's when he knows we're headed out he runs ahead and charges at the door, then he sits nicely waiting for me to open it. I didn't mind, but recently hubby told me he doesn't like him jumping at the doors, so I've now started stopping in my tracks when he does it, stand frozen for 10 seconds, and then keep walking towards the door. If he jumps again I freeze again, and so on. He has to have not jumped up for at least 10 seconds before I will open the door.
> 
> I've been doing this for 2-3 weeks now, and most of the time he doesn't jump up at the doors anymore, but when he gets excited he still does it.


I forgot to say Bordermom is correct. Stop the jumping. One thing you can try is if he jumps at the door to go out. Then, simply say Oh no you jumped now we can't go and then go back to what you were doing. Don't go for your walk or what ever, wait like 5 -10 minutes try again. Pretty soon you will start seeing him being like dang it, why did I jump. Once he figures out no jumping means he gets out there faster he will quit jumping. However this may be somethig you have to practice every day for a long time. 

My one lab has issues jumping when I am fixing his food. He has had this issue since the day I got him. Still has this same issue, he has to sit in a specific spot before I begin fixing his meal. If he moves I stop everything, make him go back and then I start going again. When I say make him go back, it doesn't take much now days I just stop what I am doing and turn and look at him. He gets that look on his face like dang it, and goes back and sits down. But in the beginning I had to walk back to the spot 6 ft away and tell him to sit. It was really hard not to laugh too when he figured out the one time that when I had my back to him. I heard him back there jumping and carrying on, it sounded like snoopy dancing. I slowly turned around and he promptly sat down giving me a look like, wasn't me, nothing going on back here. But I still have to every single day make him sit and keep him seated the whole time food is being dished out and served. Trust me though it is better than having an 100 lb lab plowing into you every day while your trying to get food around.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, to each his own. That knee thing can definitely stop a dog from jumping but not done properly can cause some damage to dog and the unskilled, uncoordinated handler. I'm just sayin'..


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

wvasko said:


> Well, to each his own. That knee thing can definitely stop a dog from jumping but not done properly can cause some damage to dog and the unskilled, uncoordinated handler. I'm just sayin'..


Your not bringing the knee up fast like your trying to fend off a mugger by kneeing him in the groin. Your just bring the knee up slightly against his chest to get him off your body and then drop the knee same time your saying off. This is gentle and humane, your basically shoving him off you with your knee and not your hands. If you push down with your hands the dog thinks it is a game. The dog has to go down because he has lost support. This teaches him the word "off". Which means get down. Which then "off" can be used in any situation. Same as Drop it, or Leave it. And a lot more humane than hitting him with a flyswatter ;-)


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

As I said to each his own, I did not mention the speed of bringing one's knee up. I do know the gently slight routine of bringing one's knee up like a ballet dancer or yoga instructor is just not gonna work with some dogs. 

I was also not interested in how humane one method is over another but common sense tells me if a persons reflexes are not up to par and the 67 lb dog like the one I am having fun with right now, that will launch himself from 6 to 8 ft from handler and he does get the raised knee in chest no matter how nicely it is raised it will cause more damage than a flyswatter. This type of launching happens when a dog is doing the zoomies and decides to have the handler join in the fun.

The speed and power of a dog able to come at least 4 ft off the ground the last 6 or 8 ft when hitting anything solid like a raised knee could be damaging to dog or handler. I have found that not all handlers are endowed with the necessary physical skills needed. I have even met some people who cannot get knee high enough to gently discourage such shenanigans.


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

wvasko said:


> As I said to each his own, I did not mention the speed of bringing one's knee up. I do know the gently slight routine of bringing one's knee up like a ballet dancer or yoga instructor is just not gonna work with some dogs.


You do not have to be a ballet dancer to raise your knee to brush a dog off you. I have done this with Saint Bernards, and all my labs are 90 lbs+ with no fat on them.



wvasko said:


> I was also not interested in how humane one method is over another but common sense tells me if a persons reflexes are not up to par and the 67 lb dog like the one I am having fun with right now, that will launch himself from 6 to 8 ft from handler and he does get the raised knee in chest no matter how nicely it is raised it will cause more damage than a flyswatter. This type of launching happens when a dog is doing the zoomies and decides to have the handler join in the fun.


This is why I said do it inside in the house encouraging the dog to jump up on you. Not launching himself from 6-8 ft away with a handler holding on. If your teaching a dog to jump on you from 6-8 ft away from a handler your training an attack dog and a fly swatter is not going to do a thing to deter it.



wvasko said:


> The speed and power of a dog able to come at least 4 ft off the ground the last 6 or 8 ft when hitting anything solid like a raised knee could be damaging to dog or handler. I have found that not all handlers are endowed with the necessary physical skills needed. I have even met some people who cannot get knee high enough to gently discourage such shenanigans.


This is why you teach this when the dog is calm and your encouraging him to jump up and your correcting him then. Your not encouraging him to launch at you from 6-8 ft away. When the dog is in zoomies or raging out of control your not going to stop it with a fly swatter either, your going to get bit if you hit them with a fly swatter and they are lunging at you. You teach a dog the off command the same way you teach them sit or down, in a calm nice mood when they are receptive. This will carry over when they are excited.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> This will carry over when they are excited.


With some dogs it will and others not so much.



> This is why I said do it inside in the house encouraging the dog to jump up on you.


Well to me trying to use entrapment on a dog just is just not my cup of tea. Besides that enticing this particular dog to get rowdy in house could be the demise of my entertainment center. This dog is pretty decent in the home, it's only outside where he can stretch his legs and go nutso that this problem occurs and it will gradually straighten itself out when he is more understanding of my wishes. 



> Not launching himself from 6-8 ft away with a handler holding on. If your teaching a dog to jump on you from 6-8 ft away from a handler your training an attack dog


How on earth did we jump from a young healthy brute just running around full speed feeling pretty good about himself to 2 handlers and an attack dog. I spent 15 yrs training personal protection dogs and never encountered a zoomie dog problem. Oh and never used a flyswatter during protection work.

I never advise people to do my type of training, I'm pretty careful stating that this is just the way I do it and many times I advise people not to use a method because I do.



> You do not have to be a ballet dancer to raise your knee to brush a dog off you. I have done this with Saint Bernards, and all my labs are 90 lbs+ with no fat on them.


Back to the knee thing, I personally don't like it cause I have seen misuse of the knee, that's just me, as always, everybody gets to train as they want to. You don't like flyswatters and thats fine cause I'm not trying to talk you into flyswatter work. I don't care what kind training methods you use. As you stated above you use this knee on St Bernards and 90 lb Labs, it works for you.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

wvasko said:


> Well to me trying to use entrapment on a dog just is just not my cup of tea.


My feelings, exactly.

Deliberately setting the dog up for failure will likely only teach him that: 

1) he should completely mistrust your cues, because 
2) humans are unpredictable, and 
3) humans are unfair. 

Sorry, but I really can't relate to this aforementioned 'knee' method.


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

wvasko said:


> How on earth did we jump from a young healthy brute just running around full speed feeling pretty good about himself to 2 handlers and an attack dog. I spent 15 yrs training personal protection dogs and never encountered a zoomie dog problem. Oh and never used a flyswatter during protection work.


You said above in a thread that you are traing a dog that is launching itself 6-8 ft from a handler. Which I never suggested doing anything like this at all. Your the one that brought this up. I was recomending this for the original poster. And I quote. 



wvasko said:


> As I said to each his own, I did not mention the speed of bringing one's knee up. I do know the gently slight routine of bringing one's knee up like a ballet dancer or yoga instructor is just not gonna work with some dogs.
> 
> I was also not interested in how humane one method is over another but common sense tells me if a persons reflexes are not up to par and the 67 lb dog like the one I am having fun with right now, that will launch himself from 6 to 8 ft from handler and he does get the raised knee in chest no matter how nicely it is raised it will cause more damage than a flyswatter. This type of launching happens when a dog is doing the zoomies and decides to have the handler join in the fun.
> 
> The speed and power of a dog able to come at least 4 ft off the ground the last 6 or 8 ft when hitting anything solid like a raised knee could be damaging to dog or handler. I have found that not all handlers are endowed with the necessary physical skills needed. I have even met some people who cannot get knee high enough to gently discourage such shenanigans.





wvasko said:


> Well to me trying to use entrapment on a dog just is just not my cup of tea. Besides that enticing this particular dog to get rowdy in house could be the demise of my entertainment center. This dog is pretty decent in the home, it's only outside where he can stretch his legs and go nutso that this problem occurs and it will gradually straighten itself out when he is more understanding of my wishes.


Again I am not talking about using this for Your Particular Dog, again the Original poster has already said the dog is jumping at doors, on counters, and on people. Do what ever it is you do when he jumps on you. It is not misleading nor entrapment if he is already doing it. You are correcting the behavior. By brushing them to the floor when when they jumpo on you. You are getting them to repeat the behavior but you are correcting it. I don't care if it is standing in your underwear and dancing make the dog jump on you. You keep doing it, brushing the dog off with your knee, saying No, Off and he will soon quit doing it. You need to use the command Off for everything to get him down on all fours.



wvasko said:


> I never advise people to do my type of training, I'm pretty careful stating that this is just the way I do it and many times I advise people not to use a method because I do.


No you didn't, you never advised the Original Poster not to do your type of training go back and look at your post. Your advice was use a fly swatter.

Here is your post.



wvasko said:


> I have the same problem with Pierce only he is 67 lbs of muscle & bone, my weapon of choice is a flyswatter used only on the full speed romps. Regular jump up does not bother me cause he is a new dog and we are learning to be civilized to each other at a more leisurely pace. The full speed thing has to be quickly adjusted cause of possible injury to wife or I. Good news is it's pretty hard to cause injury to dog with a flyswatter unless you reverse it and hit with the handle.





wvasko said:


> Back to the knee thing, I personally don't like it cause I have seen misuse of the knee, that's just me, as always, everybody gets to train as they want to. You don't like flyswatters and thats fine cause I'm not trying to talk you into flyswatter work. I don't care what kind training methods you use. As you stated above you use this knee on St Bernards and 90 lb Labs, it works for you.


You don't have to use the knee method. However, the dog who is jumping on everything needs to learn the "Off Command" if you have a better way I am all ears.


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

petpeeve said:


> My feelings, exactly.
> 
> Deliberately setting the dog up for failure will likely only teach him that:
> 
> ...


Again, not setting up for failure but using this as correction. 

Do what ever it is you do when he jumps on you. It is not misleading nor entrapment if he is already doing it. You are correcting the behavior. By brushing them to the floor when when they jumpo on you. You are getting them to repeat the behavior but you are correcting it. I don't care if it is standing in your underwear and dancing make the dog jump on you. You keep doing it, brushing the dog off with your knee, saying No, Off and he will soon quit doing it. You need to use the command Off for everything to get him down on all fours.

If you have a better way to teach the off command. I am all ears.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> I have the same problem with Pierce only he is 67 lbs of muscle & bone, my weapon of choice is a flyswatter used only on the full speed romps.


You do read that it's my weapon of choice and I go to explain training with Pierce and the same with the 6 to 8 ft leap as that is also the pierce dog. 



> You don't have to use the knee method. However, the dog who is jumping on everything needs to learn the "Off Command" if you have a better way I am all ears.


Well there again it's not that my way would necessarily be better, it would just be my way adjusted as needed with whatever dog I happen to be training.



> Well, to each his own. That knee thing can definitely stop a dog from jumping but not done properly can cause some damage to dog and the unskilled, uncoordinated handler. I'm just sayin'..


and I will still stick with the above statement. 

One of the things that dealing with clients/other pro-trainers/would be trainers etc etc etc that watching them in the 50 yrs I have been in this business is how they worked/acted with their dogs when the dogs do not perform as they would like. 

Sometimes when that happens comes a loss of temper and the light knee in chest becomes a hard knee or even a kicking of the chest area or near it.

In bird dogs back in the Jurassic era something called a flushing whip was used to aversely adjust a dog that made a mistake and one year at a National trial an amateur watched a couple pros beat up on their dogs when errors occurred during planted pre-trial bird work. 

The amateur when he worked his dog did some aversive adjusting put his dog in his crate when finished and when he came out later to feed the dog it was dead. He had watched the pros and then had also got angry when it was his turn and errors occurred.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

jeffsrealm said:


> If you have a better way to teach the off command. I am all ears.


Aside from your use of the word 'better', this thread alone has 5 or 6 good alternatives to your method. 

I, myself, made 3 suggestions already.



Forest, ... meet tree :wave:
lol


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I do not mean to interrupt your debate but I wanted to share...........I would put this dog in a heel .....on a leash......run him and every so often make a complete sudden stop......turn him in a 180 and put him in a sit/stop position............use the word "Stop" and not "Off". I did this when I trained my personal protection dog............my Dobie many moons ago. He would stop on a dime! I don't care if he was running full speed at a potential predator.........ON A DIME! I would start over with this little guy IMO...........just a thought.  I never said I was a pro.....but I did really good with him......now off to make dinner.

This is an interesting thread....been following it to see the outcome.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Abbylynn said:


> I do not mean to interrupt your debate but I wanted to share...........I would put this dog in a heel .....on a leash......run him and every so often make a complete sudden stop......turn him in a 180 and put him in a sit/stop position............use the word "Stop" and not "Off". I did this when I trained my personal protection dog............my Dobie many moons ago. He would stop on a dime! I don't care if he was running full speed at a potential predator.........ON A DIME! I would start over with this little guy IMO...........just a thought.  I never said I was a pro.....but I did really good with him......now off to make dinner.
> 
> This is an interesting thread....been following it to see the outcome.


 Yes, that's the beauty of this stuff because everybody has good stuff that has worked on a dog or two that they have trained using said methods.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

jeffsrealm said:


> Simply teach him no jumping on you. You don't have to be mean, don't have to hurt them. You can practice this when they are not running at you as well. Simply start with being all excited asking them to jump up on you. When they do just say "NO, Off", you don't have to raise your voice. Then raise your knee to block them. Get all excited let them jump up again, say "NO, Off" It is important you use the word off. Most people say down. But down means something else. It is confusing to them. You need to teach him the Off command. Anyway keep repeating this. What ever it takes to get them to keep jumping up on you, treats toys etc. Pretty soon they wont jump up on you, 5-10 tries usually. Do this a couple times a day. Do this first before you move it to outside. When he comes running at you simply say No, Off and raise your knee. He should get the point pretty clear, no jumping up.
> 
> Your dog needs to learn not to jump on people. It is fine to try the throwing a ball or something but suppose your dog run to jump on a child or and Old lady. He is just playing but they aren't and they aren't ready for it.


Sorry, but as a dog trainer in training, I know for a fact that that is bad advice. You can't encourage a dog to do a behaviour and then punish them for it. That's like telling the dog to "sit" and then telling it off when it does it. It confuses the dog, and works against the concept of "when I tell you to do something, you have to do it, and when you do it, good things will happen".

And I don't mind that he puts his paws up on me. I like it, it makes it easier to scratch his head. I just need him to not do it at full speed.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

jeffsrealm said:


> I forgot to say Bordermom is correct. Stop the jumping. One thing you can try is if he jumps at the door to go out. Then, simply say Oh no you jumped now we can't go and then go back to what you were doing. Don't go for your walk or what ever, wait like 5 -10 minutes try again. Pretty soon you will start seeing him being like dang it, why did I jump. Once he figures out no jumping means he gets out there faster he will quit jumping. However this may be somethig you have to practice every day for a long time.
> .


This is pretty much exactly what I've been doing, and after about 3 weeks he now only jumps on the doors if he's really excited.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Abbylynn said:


> I do not mean to interrupt your debate but I wanted to share...........I would put this dog in a heel .....on a leash......run him and every so often make a complete sudden stop......turn him in a 180 and put him in a sit/stop position............use the word "Stop" and not "Off". I did this when I trained my personal protection dog............my Dobie many moons ago. He would stop on a dime! I don't care if he was running full speed at a potential predator.........ON A DIME! I would start over with this little guy IMO...........just a thought.  I never said I was a pro.....but I did really good with him......now off to make dinner.
> 
> This is an interesting thread....been following it to see the outcome.


 So you mean like a "wait" cue, a cue to make the dog stop dead? He does know "wait", but it's new and not yet reliable enough to do at full speed. Working on it though


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

lil_fuzzy said:


> Sorry, but as a dog trainer in training, I know for a fact that that is bad advice. You can't encourage a dog to do a behaviour and then punish them for it. That's like telling the dog to "sit" and then telling it off when it does it. It confuses the dog, and works against the concept of "when I tell you to do something, you have to do it, and when you do it, good things will happen".
> 
> And I don't mind that he puts his paws up on me. I like it, it makes it easier to scratch his head. I just need him to not do it at full speed.


YES! Yes! Yes! Yes! Oh you get the idea. I have said many times I do not mind a dog jumping up and slapping his paws on my chest and the scratching of ears, even throwing a hug at the dog does a bunch of releasing the pressure of whatever training is being done at the time. While I realize hugs don't mean much to a dog and maybe some don't like it, a problem easily solved by just hugging the dogs that appear to like it.

I especially like the quote below as it says it all



> I just need him to not do it at full speed.





> That's like telling the dog to "sit" and then telling it off when it does it.


The best part of the sit stuff is that sit is one of the very 1st thing that everybody teaches their pups/dogs and easy to phase into the any door problems by insisting that there is no chance of going out door until dog sits properly. 

Yes surely if I had a dog with a good sit, telling it off would be very last thing I would want/do.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

lil_fuzzy said:


> So you mean like a "wait" cue, a cue to make the dog stop dead? He does know "wait", but it's new and not yet reliable enough to do at full speed. Working on it though


 You are correct.......a "wait" cue. I use that on my present pup. Just used a different word for the other dog for a good reason. I used both words on the Dobie with two different meanings.  You have the idea though! Good luck.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Well, *I* especially like the quote below as it says it all ...



lil_fuzzy said:


> I'd like to not have to resort to P+ if I can.


That's why I'm so perplexed at some of the responses, most notably, ones that invite potential injury to dog and handler.


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

wvasko said:


> YES! Yes! Yes! Yes! Oh you get the idea. I have said many times I do not mind a dog jumping up and slapping his paws on my chest and the scratching of ears, even throwing a hug at the dog does a bunch of releasing the pressure of whatever training is being done at the time. While I realize hugs don't mean much to a dog and maybe some don't like it, a problem easily solved by just hugging the dogs that appear to like it.


See, I don't mind a dog doing that to me as well. However, the dog doesn't know not to do that to the 70 year old lady that happens to be in the park that day, nor the 14 year old kid. When you deal with large dogs you have to teach them not to jump on humans. That right there is the bait and switch. Trying to teach a dog it is ok to jump on you and your wife but not everyone he meets?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

jeffsrealm said:


> Trying to teach a dog it is ok to jump on you and your wife but not everyone he meets?


Dogs are perfectly capable of learning such distinctions IMO. My dogs behave differently between my husband and I because they know we tolerate different behaviors.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

jeffsrealm said:


> See, I don't mind a dog doing that to me as well. However, the dog doesn't know not to do that to the 70 year old lady that happens to be in the park that day, nor the 14 year old kid. When you deal with large dogs you have to teach them not to jump on humans. That right there is the bait and switch. Trying to teach a dog it is ok to jump on you and your wife but not everyone he meets?


Well we surely have no debate on the safety of 70 yr old ladies, just our methods of attaining such safety. I have used the knee training dogs not to jump, along with other methods that the experience of training 90 different breeds has dumped on me. With the right dog and the right tool used with the right experience needed to use tool many things are possible. Those tools can be anything from treats to electric collars, I've used them all. I'm just not gonna advise anybody online to use a tool that causes damage if used improperly. 

In all fairness I did mention a flyswatter which in my opinion is a pretty harmless aversive, unless (as I said) one reverses the swatter and uses the steel handle. I believe in the future the flyswatter will just secretly remain in my tool bag to be used as I see fit. 

I've pretty much trained all the more popular of the mastiff breeds, St Bernards, Pyrenees, 1 Irish Wolfhound, couple Newfies, Great Danes and last but not least a few Akita's. So I am familiar with large breed dog problems.

As far as 70 yr old ladies and 14 yr olds out in the public, when a dog is on a lead this does not happen. Now if it's a dog park surely all those that enter a dog park should have all health insurance payments (dog or human) up to date. This as usual is my opinion only. I am done now thread as my replies are getting repetitive.


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## jeffsrealm (Sep 21, 2011)

sassafras said:


> Dogs are perfectly capable of learning such distinctions IMO. My dogs behave differently between my husband and I because they know we tolerate different behaviors.





wvasko said:


> As far as 70 yr old ladies and 14 yr olds out in the public, when a dog is on a lead this does not happen. Now if it's a dog park surely all those that enter a dog park should have all health insurance payments (dog or human) up to date. This as usual is my opinion only. I am done now thread as my replies are getting repetitive.


Well the thread kind of derailed to now should the dog jump on people or not. And I will completely disagree with both statements. 

True story, even though it may sound like I am using items out of the movie "Up" but this is one I had came up in my time. 

Person out walking thier dog, Large lovable lab, plays fetch like a pro, runs and jumps in water and will get 2 tennis balls at once out of the pond and bring them back. Owner lets them jump up on them, never really taught them not to jump on people because they don't mind it, dog never seems to jump on other people when out for walks and things. Walking along and stops to talk to elderly neighbor who is walking with one of those 4 pronged canes. The elderly neighbor has put tennis balls on the end of the four pronged cane because those black rubber ends leave marks on the floor. Common thing to use tennis ball so they don't mark up the floor. While sitting there talking the dog notices "hmm tennis balls, don't mind if I do." and tried to grab the tennis balls, which pulls on the cane. The elderly person reacts by jerking the cane up, normal reaction. Dog thinks oh he wants to play and jumps up on the elderly person. The owner grabs the leash but too late as the elderly person already moving backwards faster than they have moved in years. They fall over break a hip. 

If you want your dog to jump on people, then by all means do it. I prefer teaching them not to even though I don't mind it as well. I get right down on the floor and love my dogs up and let them get on my lap when I am on the floor and they climb right on my chest and everything but jumping up on people is as much a no as biting is.

Anyway, I am done with this thread as well. You can take my advice or leave it. If you want your dog to jump up on you that's fine, it's your choice. I offered my advice.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I can say that playing the "I'm gonna get you" game of acting like I'm going to run at the dog when I see him approaching has worked perfectly with Brody. Now, his zoomie game is to run at full speed as fast as he can towards me and then change directions at the last second so I don't "get" him instead of body slamming all 78 lbs of himself on me. As he changes directions, I'll usually reach out and try to grab him just to reinforce the idea that if he gets too close to me when he's in crazy mode, I'm going to try to catch him. It hasn't messed with his recall at all (which was my concern at first) and it's a new super fun game to him.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I know I said I was gone but this was just too much, evidently the big lovable Lab had no manners at all cause it's customary to train a dog to sit mannerly at your side when talking to a neighbor or whoever. These people are not the types that are gonna train their dogs to do anything so whatever methods used to train no jumping are useless to them. 

Now who said they want their dog to jump on strangers, where is this stuff coming from. Nobody on this thread has mentioned not training their dogs to stop jumping. Just the methods used.

I use the jump up relieve training pressure jump but at end of a 30 day course if no jump is needed, no jump is offered by dog. If dog decides he/she would like to jump a simple no suffices to stop unwanted (at that time) jumps. Believe it or not if I take arms and just open up wide this is a signal for dog to jump on me alone because it's what I start with during training, 1st dog jumps up and my arms open wide after jump and by the time it's all over closed arms no jump, open arms wide jump allowed and wanted. This is just method I use not to be confused with anything that makes sense, just my way.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

My dogs jump up after exercises in obedience. I also let them jump up when I praise them during training for doing something fabulous, such as heeling for an extended period of time with excellent eye contact and positioning. They "know" when jumping up is acceptable and when it is not, just like they know when it's acceptable to tug on a leash and when it's not (tugging is also a reward.)


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

My dogs have a cue for jumping up on me when invited. They have also been taught to sit politely to greet strangers when on a leash. They would not dream in a million years of jumping on my husband even if invited. Dogs can learn distinctions. That's why they never, ever bother to beg from my husband but will give it a half-hearted effort with me. It's why they become ridiculously happy when they see our neighbors on one side out in their yard and show exactly zero interest if the neighbors on the other side are in their yard. If you prefer to teach your dogs not to jump on anyone, whatever - to each their own - but I don't believe for a second that dogs can't learn distinctions of behavior in different contexts/situations and with different people. There are very few blanket statements about training and caring for dogs IMO. *shrug*

Also IMO the person in the story should have shortened their leash and moved away from the elderly person the _second_ it went after the tennis ball, and re-commanded the sit. Then the accident could have been avoided altogether.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

sassafras said:


> My dogs have a cue for jumping up on me when invited. They have also been taught to sit politely to greet strangers when on a leash. They would not dream in a million years of jumping on my husband even if invited. Dogs can learn distinctions. That's why they never, ever bother to beg from my husband but will give it a half-hearted effort with me.


I've got a similar scenario. A cue for "up" and "off" for when to jump up and when not to, so jumping on people...only when invited! Admittedly still working on the polite greetings on the leash with new people, but she is good with me and my husband, Caeda also begs from my husband a little more than she does me...she knows who the good target is lol 

One thing that I think has been missed a little bit in this thread is that there could be two problems here. One being running directly at a person, and the other being the jumping up. For example: Caeda is 99% fantastic for not jumping up any more. She does have one really irritating behavior, she runs full speed at me if we are playing in the yard, fetch, laser, whatever. She USED to jump up when she got to me, but not any more. Now I get 60lbs of nuclear powered puppy running smack into my knees, she did it a couple of weeks ago and the bruise just finally faded (I luckily managed to stay on my feet!). We're trying a variety of things, but can't be sure what is and isn't working yet, redirection by throwing a toy has helped on a case-by case basis, but it certainly hasn't cured anything. I'm not really looking for advice here, but I thought I would point out, with an example that the OP may have more than one problem to work on here....although I agree with everybody here jumping should be the first to be addressed.


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