# How concerned should I be?



## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

My little Big 8 month old Dobie/Rott/Shepherd mix has started the strange behavior again. She did this at first when I adopted her but it stopped for two months. I take her outside to go potty and when I say "Abby Come'....she comes alright........all 50 pounds charging right for me growling like a guard dog from heck and jumps into the air off the ground straight for my chest and throat! If I had not have had any experience with dogs I would have pooed myself! I knew enough to turn sideways and block my body and as she hit full force......I stumbled and she bit the dust! She got up and got her bearings again and had the gull to stand there and growl at me again while I was looking to see if I had bruises or was bleeding or anything. I just walked over to her calmly and said "No, Bad Dog" and proceeded to wait for her to go potty and immediately took her in the house. I showed her no fear because I really don't have any fear. It is kind of comical but then again it isn't because I fear for my little dogs and my elderly Father who lives here also. And I am no spring chicken myself.
Where in the world is this coming from? I mean she sounded ferocious! Maybe it is just play or maybe not? She showed her teeth but did not bite. The day before she charged me as I was bent over to pick up something in the yard and about knocked me flat out.......only that time she brushed my face with hers as she flew by! Geez anyways! Does this sound like Play? Any pro's out there?
I rescued her at the age of 6 months. Was someone working on training this dog to be aggressive before I adopted her?
Maybe someone who knows this behavior can give me a little insight on it. I have had purebred Dobermans and purebred Shepherds whom never showed this type of behavior. I had one doberman who I personally trained as a protector and he wasn't even as scary as she was last night.


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## beverley (Oct 7, 2010)

i can only give you my experience.
branston is 100+ rottie x mastiff who sometimes does this, but he always gives a play bow, either just before he 'starts', or during his menacing 5 minutes.

when he was a bit younger (he's now 13 mths) i was very wary as i dont think he realises his own strength. all i do when he starts to do this is to stand against a wall totally ignoring him until he's calmed down enough to grab his collar and take him in.

maybe she just wants you to play? and doesnt realise how 'aggressive' she is coming off to you.


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## Rid#### (Jul 22, 2011)

I would seriously


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you for your input everyone. I too have spoken with a couple of Rottie breeders since I posted this. I am in no way saying their breed is bad.....just that it is the first time I have ever owned a dog of that breed. Since her actions are so much different from my Dobies and Shepherds......I thought it was worth a shot! Schooling and not at home is recommended. I adopted Abbylynn because she is what I wanted. I didn't just go and walk in to a shelter and pick up a dog. I hunted for quite some time until I found what I was looking for. She was it. So I owe it to her as well as everyone else to make this a good thing.

I agree that she is probably seeing if she can take my spot. And I believe some of it may be play. But.....it's off to school we go....hi ho!

I am a long time dog owner and have attended obedience school with my prior dogs. But things change and so do methods. Glad for the internet and a world of knowledge!.........even if I am getting old! Lol! And I can't spend the day on this computer and get anything accomplished! Lol!

Thanks again!


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

Wow. I hope it's play, but my first reaction when reading that was 'Oh My Gawd'....I think a trainer to assess the situation is a very good idea. ET has flown at me many times, but it's very obviously puppy over-exuberance and meant to be a friendly greeting in her warped little puppy brain.


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## lisahi (Jun 19, 2011)

Labmom4 said:


> Wow. I hope it's play, but my first reaction when reading that was 'Oh My Gawd'....I think a trainer to assess the situation is a very good idea. ET has flown at me many times, but it's very obviously puppy over-exuberance and meant to be a friendly greeting in her warped little puppy brain.


Same. Coco will sit, staring at me for about a minute. Then she'll charge and jump up to my face. It's play. There was no growling involved. In fact, because she doesn't have very good recall yet, I find that she'll come to me best when I just sit and stare at her until she charges. Obviously, that only really works well if your dog is 6 pounds like mine, though. I intend to teach her better recall and not rely on the charging.


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

First make sure there are no health issues. If when you call her this is a happy charge with no bite then it may be a game she has played in the past. If her interaction with other family and pets is all good and generally happy this can be fixed fairly easy at eight mos. 

Do you have the time for some walks/training on leash with you only and the dog will need to be crated ??? 

If yes I'll give you a one week training/conditioning schedule that worked for me, and yes I did say the dog will have to be crated or with you on short leash at all times.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Very Concerned...Thats what you should be.:wink:
A Rottweiler is basically a killing machine . They are are born and programmed to kill and attack!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

oldhounddog said:


> First make sure there are no health issues. If when you call her this is a happy charge with no bite then it may be a game she has played in the past. If her interaction with other family and pets is all good and generally happy this can be fixed fairly easy at eight mos.
> 
> Do you have the time for some walks/training on leash with you only and the dog will need to be crated ???
> 
> If yes I'll give you a one week training/conditioning schedule that worked for me, and yes I did say the dog will have to be crated or with you on short leash at all times.


 I have all the time in the world to walk Abbylynn by myself: I am 56 and retired. I have a remington wire crate. Abbylynn sleeps in ti at night. I started to crate train her the first day home from the rescue. I have a leash that is just a handle, a couple of 4 ft material leashes, a 6ft nylon leash, and a 12 ft retractable which I only use to go to the potty with. I have 2 nylon collars one is reflective for night walks, one regular choker collar and a prong collar (don't scream!....I have not used it even though I have trained dogs in my 30 years of owning them). I would be so grateful if you gave me a schedule to follow! You have no idea!
My little dogs are fully trained and 5 years old. They can do without my 24/7 attention for a while if need be. They are good dogs. 
I just had Abbylynn at the vets a week ago for a small hair loss around one of her eyes. The vet found nothing wrong with her in any way. She is up to date on absolutely everything. I just finished her rabies vaccine a month ago......until next years rabies vaccine and heartworm test. Is there anything else you need to know?
Abbylynn is very good with the two little dogs,.....she just has this one issue at this time. She is smart. She learns quickly. She plays with the little dogs like a mom would her pups. It amazes me. That is why I am so taken back by her charging behavior. I do not fear her. I am used to big Dobermans and German Shepherds.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Regardless of her "intent" this is dangerous behaviour, playful or not. 
I would actually have someone come in (a certified trainer or behaviourist) and hopefully not one who gets all alpha talk on you. Testing behaviour does occur during adolescence, but this "taking your place" stuff..well, I think that's just hooey. Either way, it will be important for someone to come to you and SEE the behaviour and how you interact etc at home rather than just head off to classes. It cannot be assessed properly without actually seeing it.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Roloni said:


> Very Concerned...Thats what you should be.:wink:
> A Rottweiler is basically a killing machine . They are are born and programmed to kill and attack!


 Watched it!...made me laugh at the guy with the pedi-paws!.....looked like my 17.3 lb. Schnauzer/Poodle when I try to trim his nails! Lol!::laugh:.......

:wave:



Labmom4 said:


> Wow. I hope it's play, but my first reaction when reading that was 'Oh My Gawd'....I think a trainer to assess the situation is a very good idea. ET has flown at me many times, but it's very obviously puppy over-exuberance and meant to be a friendly greeting in her warped little puppy brain.



Yes Labmom........and any dog can bite......it's not always the "breed". Maybe to Abbylynn it is puppy-play....she is a teenager! That is why I was hoping a real trainer could advise me if at all possible. I plan on seeing a pet store owner on Monday about the trainer she personally knows. I plan on keeping my dog until she dies. I don't believe in just getting rid of an animal...... 
unless they really have an issue that cannot be fixed........and then that still would not mean dumping them.......probably something worse that I don't even care to think about......and even then it would have to be a severe issue. You know?



Cracker said:


> Regardless of her "intent" this is dangerous behaviour, playful or not.
> I would actually have someone come in (a certified trainer or behaviourist) and hopefully not one who gets all alpha talk on you. Testing behaviour does occur during adolescence, but this "taking your place" stuff..well, I think that's just hooey. Either way, it will be important for someone to come to you and SEE the behaviour and how you interact etc at home rather than just head off to classes. It cannot be assessed properly without actually seeing it.


 Thank you......I am contacting someone this Monday. The person who owns a local pet shop knows of a trainer that I can speak with. Her shop is closed on the weekends. I will make sure he is a professional too! Not a fly-by-night person.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Dont trust the local pet shop!!!
I bought a Rottweiler puppy from a local Pet Shop and shes a reject...We may have to have her PTS....
We really like her a lot , and shes doing great.. but her ears kinda stick out further than we like ...and its kinda annoying.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Roloni said:


> Dont trust the local pet shop!!!
> I bought a Rottweiler puppy from a local Pet Shop and shes a reject...We may have to have her PTS....
> We really like her a lot , and shes doing great.. but her ears kinda stick out further than we like ...and its kinda annoying.


 Poor Puppy! Mine is a mix and her ears stick out kinda funny......but I love her anyways! She just has to get her act together for me!

I am only going to see a trainer. I will be able to tell if he is ok or not. I know some things about training too after all these years. Lol! I would NEVER buy a puppy from a pet shop. Horror stories abound!



Cracker said:


> Regardless of her "intent" this is dangerous behaviour, playful or not.
> I would actually have someone come in (a certified trainer or behaviourist) and hopefully not one who gets all alpha talk on you. Testing behaviour does occur during adolescence, but this "taking your place" stuff..well, I think that's just hooey. Either way, it will be important for someone to come to you and SEE the behaviour and how you interact etc at home rather than just head off to classes. It cannot be assessed properly without actually seeing it.



I hear that "Alpha" stuff went out the window. The guy I am supposed to see is trained in behavior so I am told.....we'll see. I want to see credentials.....but how sure can you be about that either? I will go with gut instinct!


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Abbylynn said:


> Lol! I would NEVER buy a puppy from a pet shop. Horror stories abound!


Well sometimes.. 
You just get all crazy looking at all the cute puppies at the pet shop , and the next thing you know...Youre bringing home a Rottweiler with big ears that dont conform to all the breed standards...
and then its all cute and kinda ugly..and so happy....


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Roloni said:


> Well sometimes..
> You just get all crazy looking at all the cute puppies at the pet shop , and the next thing you know...Youre bringing home a Rottweiler with big ears that dont conform to all the breed standards...
> and then its all cute and kinda ugly..and so happy....


 
One is enough! Lol! No worry about that here! Actually......think about it, I have three dogs! But the other two are 5 years old. BIG difference!

If that is the pic of your puppy there that I see, it is adorable!,.........funny ears or not!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Roloni said:


> Dont trust the local pet shop!!!
> I bought a Rottweiler puppy from a local Pet Shop and shes a reject...We may have to have her PTS....
> We really like her a lot , and shes doing great.. but her ears kinda stick out further than we like ...and its kinda annoying.


Why might you have to have her put to sleep if she's "doing great"?


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## Rid#### (Jul 22, 2011)

posting thing like this as it will put you off side will a lot of posters.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Rid#### said:


> I think that if you are thinking of doing this due to her flaws.
> I think that you have just bought this dog as an add on acsessory.
> When you take on a dog and it doesn't conform to what you want is no reason to do that.
> What would you do if you have a kid and its ears are sticking out.
> ...


I agree!!!!!!! Wow, if you don't like your dog because its ears are funny, consider giving it in adoption to a better home, where the dog is more important than how its ears look! I don't like attacking people on forums since things so often come across wrong, but if you are seriously considering PTS because of EARS not being perfect! any home would be better! Sorry if what I read came across wrong and you aren't really, but if you mean it ignore my apology!

Anyway, to the OP


Cracker said:


> Regardless of her "intent" this is dangerous behaviour, playful or not.


I agree with this too. We got some "aggressive" actions and noises out of Caeda the first time we gave her a beef bone and we made it an absolute priority to get rid of that behavior. It may go away on its own, but I wouldn't depend on it. I'm glad that you are going to be consulting someone on this. We dealt with Caeda's "aggression" on our own, but still plan on checking our methods with a trainer to get their take on whether we have permanently quelled the behavior. Oh and by the way....big kudos to you for staying calm with a 50lb dog running at you! When Caeda did her snarl at me I almost wet my pants and she was only 5 1/2 months old and 37lb at the time! She didn't even nip at me, just made Big Dog Angry sounds and curled her lip up! (My brain saw the potential of an adult at 100lbs doing that)
Let us know how it goes! I know I'm watching for info on this kind of thing just so I have a better idea of how to deal with it if Caeda ever decides to do any scary stuff like that.


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

OK , for this training/conditioning the crate is used for focus and is in no way punishment, however, during the training her food will be used as a tool. Other dogs out first so no distractions.
The first day schedule is going to be the model for refocusing her attention on you and bonding. Start day off by putting other dogs out first so it is just you and Abby when you take her out of her crate. No other family around and no lavish attention, use normal friendly tone and no heavy eye contact.

Her regular food will be used as a training reward and hand fed by you for the duration of training. No lavish attention. No high value treats...........
Use normal am/pm feeding schedule . 



First day... Early potty walk with you. Start off by having Abby sit when first out of crate as you hook up her leash, 6 ft. is fine. You will be using a lot of Sit , down , down/stay for 
short duration. Water as needed. Return to crate. All of her time with you is calm and friendly/bonding with normal voice. No interaction from others with or without fur. No playing
of any kind.

Feeding walk... Out of crate, sit and hook up. Take her food with you aprox half of normal amt. and as you walk, work on basic commands and reward with her regular food all hand fed by
by you. The idea is focus Abby on you and every thing good comes from you. Abby is just 8 mos old so if you start to loose focus when working on commands just continue 
the walk feeding her by hand. Water as needed. Return to crate.

Mid-morning... Same routine with second half of her morning food ration ( do not over feed ) . Work on basics and make sure you use the word No firmly for correction as needed. Notice how 
the word is used firmly but not loud. If Abby does not do something correctly just use No and reshape the sit or whatever you were working on. 
When she starts to loose focus or tire just continue the walk and have quality bonding time. 

Mid-day... Same routine with friendly calm attention from you as the reward. Use some of your time to proof the commands and get her used to the word No as correction when needed.
Water as needed. Return to crate.

Mid-afternoon... Same routine, Quality calm bonding time with you while on walk working on commands with praise for correct behavior. Don't forget to use the word NO for shaping a 
behavior, for example, if she starts to wander away from you while walking. Use a firm No and bring her back to your side and continue.

Late-afternoon... Same as first feeding walk but using first half of pm food ration for walk. Water as needed. Return to crate. ( Adjust time so this will occur at the normal afternoon feeding
time. )


Late-day... Same as Mid-morning but using second half of pm food ration on this walk. Water as needed. Return to crate.


Evening .... Potty walk with quality time . water as per need and return to crate.


===========================================================================================================================================


Second day same as first with minor adjustments as per your needs.


===========================================================================================================================================


Third thru Fifth day same as first day except........... Add a quality break at some point mid-day with 6ft leash tied to your belt so Abby is with you where ever you are , ie: Sitting on porch with her by your side with a cool bowl of water or walking to get mail or whatever is best friend time for you.

============================================================================================================================================ 

Sixth day same as first but with flexi lead type leash. During one of your training sessions let Abby get about 7 to 10 feet in front of you and call her with" Abby Come". If she starts to run take a step toward her with non-leash hand up and give a firm "NO" immediately and have her sit. Keep working on this with short lead not over 10 feet and condition a calm response to come command. Reward correct behavior. If you are getting the desired results now is the time to use a high value treat when shaping and proofing the come command. Gradually increase the distance and use a lot praise for the correct behavior and do not be stingy with the treats, Abby will get it, just be patient and use calm consistent but firm training with love and treats.

You will need to proof your success for a couple of days and then return her to the normal family circle. This is probably an eight month old problem and when corrected will never return after 18 plus months of age. I think all you have is a very young girl and it will work out just fine. This has worked for me more than once and on one dog I had to do this training twice, but it still worked.

Best, oldhounddog


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Oldhounddog......Big hugs! I am going to print this so I do not miss ANY of its specifics! I will keep you posted on updates! Yeaaaa! 

I still will see about regular training classes though for my days of obedience classes were prehistoric times! Lol!

Thank you sooooo much for all the time you took to write this all out for me. Greatly appreciated! You are a very kind soul!

Now.......on to printing and schooling!::rockon:


Can't accomplish anything in front of the computer!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Greater Swiss said:


> I agree!!!!!!! Wow, if you don't like your dog because its ears are funny, consider giving it in adoption to a better home, where the dog is more important than how its ears look! I don't like attacking people on forums since things so often come across wrong, but if you are seriously considering PTS because of EARS not being perfect! any home would be better! Sorry if what I read came across wrong and you aren't really, but if you mean it ignore my apology!
> 
> Anyway, to the OP
> 
> ...



I will keep you updated. Tomorrow morning starts a brannd new day and a brand new Abby. I do know that if you know your dog is charging you....the worst thing you can be is SCARED....even though it is really hard not to be when you see all those big pearly whites gleaming at you! But dogs really do sense our emotions. Like I said,.............I have had big dogs for over 30 years now and I am probably sort of immune to them....which might not be such a good thing either? Lol!

I also hope the post about the puppy being put to sleep was just intended to be a joke. Maybe the wording was put in the wrong order? I sure hope so! I guess I just try to give people the benefit of the doubt. That could be dangerous too! Lol!


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Oldhound, your post is very reminiscent of Susan Garrett's program "Ruff Love"..are you familiar with it?

Abbylynne...good luck! Please keep us up to date.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Did I really just read somewhere in here that someone was going to put a puppy down because their ears were too big?

wut. :jaw:


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Niraya said:


> Did I really just read somewhere in here that someone was going to put a puppy down because their ears were too big?


I think they were joking.


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

I was thinking that at first but..I dunno. Seemed crazy.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Niraya said:


> Did I really just read somewhere in here that someone was going to put a puppy down because their ears were too big?
> 
> wut. :jaw:


I was just being plane sillylane:

A lotta people really hate "Pet Shop" dogs...
However..
They like Shelter Dogs..and Breeder Dogs...
but they really hate "Pet Shop " dogs.
They even protest about it!

I just like dogs...:wave:


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## Niraya (Jun 30, 2011)

Roloni said:


> I was just being plane sillylane:
> 
> A lotta people really hate "Pet Shop" dogs...
> However..
> ...


That's good  Normally I wouldn't take a second glance at something. But ya never know with tones through text. My apologies


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Oldhound, your post is very reminiscent of Susan Garrett's program "Ruff Love"..are you familiar with it?


Hi Cracker,
I have only read one book and it was quite a while back called "The Art a of Raising Puppy". I have heard of Susan Garrett but have not read any of her books.
My first work with dogs was back in 1967 with a GSD. One of my friends was a trainer for sent hounds . I was given a lot of help/advice on problem solving that
he used with service dogs back then. Over the years talking with many dog folks about training issues and problems with dog training has resulted in techniques 
that are a mixture of advice on what works best. I am not a trainer, just an old guy that loves dogs.


I also wish Abby the very best of luck................................

Best , oldhounddog


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Roloni said:


> I was just being plane sillylane:
> 
> A lotta people really hate "Pet Shop" dogs...
> However..
> ...


Nobody hates the dogs. However, the breeders who supply pet shops commonly abuse and neglect the puppies' parents. So when you buy a puppy from a pet shop, you're giving money to those people so they can continue abusing and neglecting their breeding dogs. THAT'S what people are protesting. But nobody hates the puppies. It's not their fault.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

Buyer beware. All puppies in pet shops are mill puppies, no exceptions. Puppies are able to escape the he** hole they are from, but the parents are still prisoners of greed. So sad! 
http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/

I would go for a behaviorist that has the background in your Rottie mix' problem(s). 

Find a behaviorist in your area
http://iaabc.org/


Good luck in whatever you choose to do.


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## Clean (Mar 1, 2011)

Get a dog trainer before something ugly turns out.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Abbylynn has improved 98%..........she is still a teenager. She is doing well with everything except for her little teenage self...... once in a while she stands steadfast as we are out to potty and as much as I say "Abby Come!" she is glued to that spot and groans a little. But no more actual charging. I am going to repeat the training process again for another week. It is still too soon to expect 100% anything from her. This I know. We are also going to do some intense heeling training. She still wants to pull every now and then......and I want to walk without a choker of any kind. Maybe I should hook her up to our homemade big wooden wagon and let her pull the kids around?! LOl! Just an update. Thanks Oldhoundog! Everything is looking up!  Dad is having the last of his cataract surgery this morning and all the kids are back in school which gives me another week of uninterrupted training. I am a little rusty too. Lol!

You know, if she wasn't still growing I really could do the wagon thing......she might enjoy it. I am afraid her growth plates could be injured at this age? I wonder?........hmmmmmm?

I am going to have to get a second crate......the darn thing is getting too heavy dragging it up and down the stairs every day. Lol!


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

Abbylynn said:


> Abbylynn has improved 98%..........she is still a teenager. She is doing well with everything except for her little teenage self...... once in a while she stands steadfast as we are out to potty and as much as I say "Abby Come!" she is glued to that spot and groans a little. But no more actual charging. I am going to repeat the training process again for another week. It is still too soon to expect 100% anything from her. This I know. We are also going to do some intense heeling training. She still wants to pull every now and then......and I want to walk without a choker of any kind. Maybe I should hook her up to our homemade big wooden wagon and let her pull the kids around?! LOl! Just an update. Thanks Oldhoundog! Everything is looking up!  Dad is having the last of his cataract surgery this morning and all the kids are back in school which gives me another week of uninterrupted training. I am a little rusty too. Lol!
> 
> You know, if she wasn't still growing I really could do the wagon thing......she might enjoy it. I am afraid her growth plates could be injured at this age? I wonder?........hmmmmmm?
> 
> I am going to have to get a second crate......the darn thing is getting too heavy dragging it up and down the stairs every day. Lol!


I am so glad things are improving with Abby. The whole process will benefit her as she continues to mature. As I mentioned before this has always worked for me and I have used this schedule for training/conditioning for many different issues with tweeks to fit the individual needs. In Abby's case, I am sure she will continue to improve as you stay on top of her training and when you get to that all important 2yr mark you will have a perfect loving girl..............

Yikes... I never thought about having to take crate upstairs, I guess another crate is in order and will not be wasted...

Get Well wishes for your Dad , hope all will be back to normal soon.

About pulling: First I do not think a choker ever helps with pulling. I have had very good results with a correctly sized and fitted prong collar, it just works like power steering for dogs and is self correcting , for example.... when the dog pulls a correctly installed prong collar tightens up and the dog stops pulling, and when there is no pulling there in no correction. I have back trouble and can not have a dog that pulls , so , I have always used a prong collar for this and the fix does not take long. 

However, having said this, it is very important not to have one type of training interspersed with another, so make this your next project and it will not take long.

More on the prong when you get ready, I have some tips that will help. 

Tip: There are many reasons that Abby may stall and grown on the come command. I would make sure that you are not asking for this too often, also , she may be getting bored or tired. Two important things to remember "Set her up for success" on the come command and only ask once with her not too far away , and when she does good, give lavish rewards and high value treats. She is very young, you have time, keeps things fun and sessions not too long. Make sure you and Abby keep up the quality time bonding ( no training ). as a reward to keep her stress free. Just my thoughts. 


Good Luck and thanks for the update on AbbyLynn.

Best , Oldhounddog


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Roloni said:


> Very Concerned...Thats what you should be.:wink:
> A Rottweiler is basically a killing machine . They are are born and programmed to kill and attack!


What utter nonsense. However, I do think this needs to be seen by a professional. Impossible to tell from the description if it is just inappropriate play or something else.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Oldhounddog.......I will most definitely consult you on the prong collar when I am ready to proceed. I own one but was not going to use it until given proper instructions. I am aware of the damage it could cause to the dog. I thank you again form the interest and help. I too have a back problem.....so yes....it is important to train her well. Dad says thanks......he is home comfortably resting. I will be going for the new crate next shopping day....usually Saturdays as it is so far to a pet store with the good crates( about 35 miles). I swear that crate weighs a million pounds at the end of the day! Lol!

I will keep in touch.....have a wonderful day!

Oh I almost forgot......I am cooking up my own high value treats.....got some good recipes for organ meats!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

It has been almost a month since I started the training process with Abbylynn. I must say she is shaping up nicely thanks to a great training schedule that was so kindly given to this "old schooler" like myself. I have acquired that second crate so I can quit carrying one crate up and down all those steps daily (very difficult for me). I have taken a little more than a week of vacation due to some change of meds and some minor surgical issues and doc appointments. We will be back from vacation this coming week.

Just a small update:........Abby has not lunged at me now in weeks. She grumbles some. But I have learned through some Rott owners that grumbling is common with that breed. Also the Rott is rather vocal as a breed in general. That could explain the noises that I sometimes took as aggressiveness. Having Dobermans and knowing their personalities Abbylynn is not so much like a Dobe as I thought she may be when I rescued her. She is more on the Rott side I believe. She does "Nose" you a bit but that may also be the Rott in her? She also has the "wait and see" attitude and has only barked one time outside at anyone or any thing. She now goes to the door and immediately sits to have her lead put on before we go outside. I do not have to say a word. Once I open the door she goes to the bottom of the outside garage steps and sits and waits for me to put on my shoes. She now knows the word "Wait". We then go out the outside garage door and we no longer have a battle of wits. We then practice our obedience. The next step is going to be to perfect her walking. She does come from a breed that was bred to pull. Therefore this training is going to seem like an eternity to me. Her pulling has gotten much better but still needs real work. "Heel" is just something she tends to try and ignore? She does have a slight stubborn streak about her at times, but not often anymore. I must be sure that Abbylynn is perfected with what we have already trained before we start anything new. She has turned 9 months old now and I can see a slight difference in her personality. She is not as much a teenager as she was. I am so glad for the help that was given to me. I just cannot fail this pup. Heaven only knows what her first 6 months of life really were like. And yes, Abbylynn is now 99.9% housebroken too! Yeeea!  Also, I swear she has grown a foot taller in the last month! Her size really fooled me when I first saw her.


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

It’s good to hear that things are going well for Abbylynn. Hopefully you will have enough dry weather to keep her training going on a schedule that works for you. Sure is great to know you won’t be lugging that million pound crate up and down the stairs on a daily basis. Sounds like you have added your own special twist to her training and that is great b/c you are the best judge of what is working for Abby’s benefit. Take good care of yourself and hope you are back to 100% soon.
As for the pulling just remember the self correcting prong collar when properly fitted is just like power steering for dogs. In my opinion the Herm Sprenger prong collar is the smoothest working on the market. Remember to keep Abby well socialized with family members with and without fur and all will be happy campers.

Good Luck , oldhound


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you for the well wishes. Is there a site that I can look at that you may know of which explains the proper fit and the technique used for the prong collar? I will also try and google up some things. It will still be a couple of weeks before I plan on beginning the training with that tool. A regular choker does not discourage Abbylynn when it comes to walking. I wish it did. All my other dogs responded well to a choker.....and I used it properly. The way I hear people talk about the prong collar I am almost intimidated by the thing! LOL! I do not wish to harm my dogs airways or neck or spine. I was looking for the prong collar instruction material that came with it......but sometimes I organize things so well that I forget where I put them...... Yes, I did tweak the training some to suit both Abbylynn's and my needs.  I have also heard that the head halters can cause harm to the dog's neck and spine if the dog makes a sudden move the wrong way. I originally was not sure which one to choose.To me that is scarier than the prong.
Abbylynn is still socializing.............goes away in the car and loves people and her brother dogs very much. I plan on taking her over to my one Sister's house to see how well the other two former rescues of mine can play together. They have done well in the past. But they have not seen each other for a good month now since I started the training. My Sister also has a house with a huge fenced in yard! OH BOY!!!!!.................................  I usually take all three dogs over and while the littlest one is busy hunting for rodents (he is allowed) we have our own dog park going on!
Thank you for all your help and interest!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Have you looked into front attach harnesses? The thing is, no matter what management system you choose, training and consistency is still the best way to get a dog who walks on a loose leash. Dogs learn to beat equipment. I've known dogs who learn to pull through a prong.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> Have you looked into front attach harnesses? The thing is, no matter what management system you choose, training and consistency is still the best way to get a dog who walks on a loose leash. Dogs learn to beat equipment. I've known dogs who learn to pull through a prong.


 I have not looked at front attach harnesses. It is a thought though. Thanks Pawzk9. The regular harness with the attachment on the dogs back just makes your arm hurt. Lol! It helped some but not the way I want to train. I gave that top attachment harness away to my Sisters dog. I will check some out.


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

Abbylynn said:


> Is there a site that I can look at that you may know of which explains the proper fit and the technique used for the prong collar?
> >Yes , however I am not sure I can post this without getting in trouble with DF rules, I'll check on this...<
> 
> > I will also try and google up some things. It will still be a couple of weeks before I plan on beginning the training with that tool.<
> ...


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I can understand little response to this thread.....after all some people may fear giving advice. No one really knows that I may not say "Hey.....you steered me wrong and now my dog is Vicious".....or something like that. It is ok. I value all the help you have given and will not forget this. 
I will measure Abby's neck. I also did something different today. I used a clicker as we were heeling..........or I should say practicing heeling. Lol! I used it in the house only. The session went fairly well. I was surprised how I was able to get eye contact so quickly. Abby stayed beside me and did not go forward very many times. Before I go the route of the prong I am going to practice this for a good week to see what happens. I did not make the other two dogs leave the area just to see what would happen. Abby ignored their presence. She just stayed focused on me and the clicker and the treat in my hand. I thought maybe this would be like priming before the paint so to speak? I was just curious as to how she would respond to a clicker. This also may give you an idea as to how to handle the prong training? I hope I am not confusing Abby. But it is the first new thing I have introduced in a month.

Thanks again for the help! Your post was just fine. I do not mind reading. 

Actually........ maybe someone else who reads this thread will obtain some knowledge that is useful to them in their own quest?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Abbylynn said:


> I will measure Abby's neck. I also did something different today. I used a clicker as we were heeling..........or I should say practicing heeling. Lol! I used it in the house only. The session went fairly well. I was surprised how I was able to get eye contact so quickly. Abby stayed beside me and did not go forward very many times. Before I go the route of the prong I am going to practice this for a good week to see what happens. I did not make the other two dogs leave the area just to see what would happen. Abby ignored their presence. She just stayed focused on me and the clicker and the treat in my hand. I thought maybe this would be like priming before the paint so to speak? I was just curious as to how she would respond to a clicker. This also may give you an idea as to how to handle the prong training? I hope I am not confusing Abby. But it is the first new thing I have introduced in a month.


Great job with the clicker. Hopefully you will realize that there is no need for a prong collar, and you can keep her attention by positive means. I would make sure that she's not just following food in your hand - click for attention, then get the treat out. Also, realize that as you go to more difficult environments for her, you're going to need to go back to basics - clicking for quick check ins and clicking very often, and accepting maybe a little bit sloppier loose leash walking. But don't go with her if she pulls. As she gets habituated to that environment, you can go longer between clicks and click for sharper behaviors. But if your dog is having trouble, click for smaller things and keep your rate of reinforcement really high. I think it's so much better to actually TEACH the dog to maintain the connection to you than to have an artificial connection through corrective equipment.


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

I think the clicker thing is great and I will look forward to hearing how things go. I don't know a thing about clicker training and will look forward to learning something new. I am delighted you are getting fresh advice on the many great ways to help Abby.

>I did not make the other two dogs leave the area just to see what would happen. Abby ignored their presence.<
That is good and I'm glad everything went well . My advice on keeping all dogs away and out of sight had only to do with starting Abby with prong collar training as this is the way I have always worked to avoid the slightest possibility of leash aggression. More on this if needed...........


Good Luck , oldhound


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I signed up for the free clicker training I found in the "sticky" here on the forum. I am on lesson one today. I will keep you posted on it and the success I have. I try to be positive in all that I am doing. 

I just had to post because this morning Abby and I had our first REAL hike in the woods as the sun was rising. I allowed her a morning of fun. I did not expect anything but that as I did no training. Abby surprised me by running ahead to the end of the lead. She then would just stop and look back as if to say "Well.......are you coming along or what?" I was very happy about this because she did not try to drag me through the woods even though she could have! There is still hope after all!    Every dog needs a day off too! LOL! I think she deserves a special dinner this evening!


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

I always enjoy a happy Dog story and this one starts off on a great day and is proof that Abby is doing well . Abby seems very happy and I will look forward to hearing about the clicker training. I know you are very proud of her.....Go AbbyLynn ..........................

Besy , oldhound


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

This is an update on the clicker training and a few other things. It may be very long.............sorry!  Abbylynn and I are still on lesson three.......target training. We are just going slowly with all the training. She loves to use her nose and paws to poke things anyways as this is a normal behavior of hers..........but now we are ASKING for the behavior. I am old school and this is new for me.

We are pretty much trying to master this level before we go on to the next level. I am going to teach her to retrieve items for me using this as a base to the behavior I need from her. If you noticed I said "we" as it is up to the trainer to do this correctly also.

She does very well staying by my side as we are walking using the clicker. She needs some work yet but she is not dragging me down the road or through the woods!  I am not expecting her to heel off lead any time soon. That is something I feel is too soon to do yet. It is not AS important to me at this point in time as we are not attending a competition. Later. She will be a sort of homemade service dog for myself eventually. 

I just want good behavior from Abbylynn. I have a tendency to tweak things for my own individual needs and especially this time around being I have a physical disability that she will be able to help me with. She is going to have to conform to my needs also.  I have taught her that when I hold up her collar "up" to go outside she must come over and put her head through it by herself. She does this well. She now slips her head through it and then immediately sits. I used a choke to train this with, the word "Head", along with rewards and the clicker. ( and her high value item.....the tug rope!)

Abby knows when I say the word "shoes" she must stop and stand still while I put on my shoes. I am now working on the word "Coat" with the soon to be change in weather coming!  She must stand still for that also. She knows the word "Wait" means that she must stop walking, period! She does well with this also. I have more "words" in my bag of tricks too! On down the road..............

Abbylynn has not tried to fly at me or from me for weeks now. I can see her personality shining through as she is maturing. She is only going to be 10 months old. Whether it be from structured training or age I am not sure. It is all good.  

We have one new behavior that I am not so sure I want to correct. Abbylynn does not growl.......but she "grumbles" her way into getting attention for going outside to the bathroom and also for getting her own way for other items that she would like. She also does this to tattle on the other two dogs. It amuses me quite frankly.

She seems to be a thinker. Instead of tattling on her two brothers the other day she seemed to try a new tactic; she took all the toys and hid them under the couch where they could not reach them. She is a hoarder! Lol! She also surprised me and took some of the community toys and put them up on my lap and then lay down in front of my feet as if she knew I would protect them from the other two? She is a trip! Lol!

I must say that her behavior has been modified to the point that she has now earned the right to sleep..... only at night..... in my bedroom out of her crate. She has not touched a thing and stays on her dog bed I provided her with.  She impressed me this morning when she nudged me with her nose and woke me to tell me she had to go out to the potty. I just wish it wouldn't have been 3:30 in the morning! But hey..........that's better than the alternative! Lol! I believe her potty training days are over! Yeeeaa!

I am very impressed with her ability to learn. I am also glad for all the helpful advice on this forum. Should I actually allow the grumbling thing or could this escalate into a bad behavior? I would hate to back track and have her not inform me of going out to the potty. This is my only real concern at this point in time. She sure is a talker! I often wonder if my littlest one didn't teach her this.............he is pretty much the same way...or do I just pick out talking dogs!? LOL!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

On the target training - if she's stuck, move on. Come back to it later. How long are your training sessions for this? I would count out 20 treats, and when the treats are gone, you are done. I would also think that part of the problem is that you are looking for too big a behavior, or she's not really in the game enough for you to be able to push for more. I hope you are not cuing (asking for) the behavior before she really understands what she's doing. Name it once you've got it instead. Sounds like on other things she is doing well. On the grumbling, hard to say without being there, but a lot of Rottweilers "talk" and it's not the same as a growl and unlikely to lead to a growl, as the emotion behind it is different. But if you don't like it, don't acknowledge it.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

This is good to know that I can back track. Her sessions are only about 15 minutes and I try to get in at least three a day. I have also set up my basement for a training area for the bad weather coming. I am not able to be out in bad weather due to lung issues. This time of year other than colds and flu are great for the outdoor training for us! Her "grumbling" is more of a talk. I guess it will be ok as long as it does not escalate into "I want it NOW or ELSE" behavior. Lol! Thanks for the advice Pawzk9. I always look for your posts and read your advice given to others with training questions; as well as Oldhounddog's posts. Both of you have been a tremendous help to me and I truly apppreciate it.


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

Well , Hello AbbyLynn ,

I know you are very proud of Abby as this is nothing short of exceptional progress. From your post it certainly looks as though Abby will be a model for what great positive training can accomplish .

Abby is obviously very smart and has the ability to figure things out. To me the vocal part of her communication skills is a plus and again shows that she is very bright, and , a Very Sweet Girl . (IMO) . I have re-read your thread and all I can say is congratulations AbbyLynn and that your trainer has done a wonderful job. I believe that now, Abby has a sense of belonging and that of a job well done , along with a loving home. It is always a great feeling to see what caring dedication gives in return. Go AbbyLynn... 
I salute you with two paws up as this is the stuff a movie could be made from.

You guys keep training , weather permitting...................................

Good Luck , oldhound


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Oldhounddog-.....................Why thank you very much from Abby and myself. :redface: (with a smile) I always have been embarrassed by compliments. 

We will keep training forever. Cannot get rusty you know! Lol! I will give an update before the Holidays. Thanks everybody.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Well.........it is a little past the holidays and I want to say how pleased I am with Abbylynn and her progress. Her clicker training is still fun and she has done well. Today Abbylynn put her toys away in her toy basket! Shocked me to death really. I just was saying the other night how I wish the dogs new how to clean up after themselves........Abbylynn did it as an accident and after I praised her to death I asked her to put away another toy.....and by gosh she did it! We have learned yet another activity that pleases. 

I am so thankful for the training schedule Oldhounddog- and that I have it posted.........I am going to be using it on my old rescue pup who came back to me yesterday.........his name is Benny.....and he is a mess. He is the Devil dog. My Sister owned him and could not train him. If there is a bad habit......he has it and every one in between. He pulls so hard my body aches today from just taking him out to the bathroom or to put him on a tie-out for a bit. He could pull a sleigh. He is unbelievably strong for 8 months old and is the size of Abbylynn. Dog give me the strength to train him .........he is absolutely unadoptable. He knows only one command......sit.....and there had better be food involved for that. I do not know where to start first..........only food is going to be my savior!.........back to the drawing board... if I survive!  

I am just glad Abbylynn is such a good girl now!


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

So glad to hear that AbbyLynn is doing so well. I know you have put in a great deal of very dedicated effort to train and condition her into the well mannered girl she is today. Best wishes and Happy Holidays to AbbyLynn and your family.

oldhounddog


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

oldhounddog said:


> So glad to hear that AbbyLynn is doing so well. I know you have put in a great deal of very dedicated effort to train and condition her into the well mannered girl she is today. Best wishes and Happy Holidays to AbbyLynn and your family.
> 
> oldhounddog


Best wishes and Happy Holidays to you and yours also!


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