# help with aggressive cattle dog: resource guarding, being overprotective??



## Quigley's Mom (Dec 28, 2008)

hello all, i'm a new member, here, and also the new owner of a 6 year old australian cattle dog that i adopted from the humane society in early november. i apologize in advance, this is going to be rather long. 

a little background on quigley: he's definitely a house dog. he's surprisingly very mellow inside for his breed, not destructive, very cuddly, active outside..

he does have some things that i'm working on with him such as his leash reactivity. he's VERY reactive around other dogs, and also reactive around people, so i'm working on desensitizing him. i realize he will probably not be a dog park going dog, and i'm ok with that. the training is both easy and difficult. it's easy because he learns fast, it's difficult because i don't want to pus him too far and ultimately set him up to fail. so i'm taking it slow with this.

i'm also working on his separation anxiety.
*
but the main reason i'm posting is because of something that happened over the holidays while family were in town.*

my parents were visiting for a couple of days, and after some initial barking, quigley, my cattle dog, took to them well, and would cuddle with them, and play with them. two nights ago while my boyfriend and i were making dinner, my mom was coming over by me, and quigley began barking at her and wouldn't let her near me.

he did the same thing yesterday while my mom was getting her picture taken with me and quigley (quigley was in the middle). he was fine with all of that, but when my mom came over to my side, he barked at her and tried to nip.

and later my dad came into my room and quigley barked at him.

the first time, i had my mom toss him some treats, then come in the kitchen and give him treats, then put her arm around me and give him treats, and he was ok. and he was fine with all the other times my parents were around me.

does this sound like resource guarding?

i also want to note that when my mom was coming over by me, i just wanted her to go sit in the living room and let me do my cooking, or let me relax instead of having to fly all over the place and do stuff. so i don't know if quigley was picking up on my annoyance? he was fine with her coming by me at other times.

i had guests come over about a month ago, and was fine with all of them, didn't bark or anything. he was still fairly new at that time though.

a few days ago, my boyfriend's parents came over and he was fine with them too. however yesterday, my brother came over, and quigley barked and actually bit him! i put him in the bedroom for 10 seconds to calm down, then had my brother toss him treats, and they were buddies until my brother went in the bathroom and came out and quigley barked at him again and then was fine.

if it is resource guarding, what are some things i can do? if it's not, what do you think the issue may be, and how might i be able to remedy it? is he just being very protective because that's a trait of his breed? does he just not like my family? was he just so riled up because of all the people over?

there is a trainer at the humane society that we saw once about his dog reactivity, but unfortunately, we haven't gotten a chance to go back yet because of the holidays and me having car problems, but we're going to try to set up an appointment in a couple of weeks when i'm back in town.

in the meantime, what can i do to help manage quigley when people come over? i've been thinking of keeping him separate until the guests are in, and when he's calm, having them toss him treats so he can see that they aren't a threat. does that sound like the proper approach? does anyone have any other suggestions?

i want to be sure of the safety of any people that quigley comes near and i also want to set quigley up to succeed, so any advice you have would be much appreciated!!

eta: i also want to mention that i walk him about an hour in the morning, and 30 minutes in the evening, in addition to playing games inside, and him having enrichment toys and training time. not sure if that info is helpful, but you never know. thanks!


----------



## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Let's step back and look at the big picture....the larger things you need to work on. There is a 90% chance he never had any formal socialization or basic training as a puppy (humane society statistic for surrendered dogs). 
That's your overall goal...to get the socialization....to people, sights, sounds...decrease the reactiveness. The hard part is teaching him EXACTLY what you want him to do in those situations....ie: around people....what do you want him to do.... lay quietly out of the way? Sit politely for greeting when people approach? You have to show him what you want done...that's the basic training part.
When he barks or starts to move toward guests, intercept him/step in front of him...have him go back to his rug/bed/corner...wherever he is supposed to be until you have the final training part down where he approaches guests and sits politely for the greeting.
Tossing of treats is fine but, the people tossing the treats have to do it correctly...no eye contact...no talking and with their bodies turned sideways or away from the dog. They are trying to change the dogs general perception of people (good things come from people).


----------



## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Welcome to the world of the Cattle Dog. This doesn't sound like resource guarding at all to me. It's your typical Cattle Dog protecting what he thinks is his. My Betty is this way as well, and it is really hard to work with, and will definitely take time. The reason it hadn't shown up earlier for you, he is now starting to bond to you. This is what it was like with Betty, the first 6-8 months were fine, but then the lunging at other dogs had started, and now with certain people. 

TooneyDogs has a lot of good points there, but I think there is one that is more important, and should be first on your list. Exercise, both physically and mentally. About an hour in the morning and 30 minutes in the evening just isn't enough for a working breed like the Cattle Dog. He needs a lot more. I haven't taken Betty out as much lately because of the cold weather here, but when it's nice, I usually take her our for about 2 hours in the am and at least 2 hours in the evening. Then on weekends on my days off we sometimes do 4-8 hour hikes. And it's still probably not enough. The more you can exercise him, both physically and mentally, the better.

As for training, you also need lots of socialization. But don't set yourself in a position where the dog may bite someone or another dog. Work at a distance. Find the dogs reaction zone, and just work at the edge where the dog notices the other person or dog, but not reacting, then treat and praise for looking at the other person or dog and then looking back to you. And make it really, really good treats. And then just work your way closer and closer, and if the dog does react, take a step back and redo it. And finally, after each training session, end it on a good note. If you aren't quite done but getting close and your dog does an absolutely perfect job with what you are wanting, end it on that perfect note. The dog will then be able to process it, as that was the last thing he had done. Whatever you do, do not end on a bad note.

Same thing with family and friends, if something happens and family or friends is getting ready to leave, try and talk them into staying a few minutes longer, and when you see what you want in the dog, then allow them to leave with the dog sitting calmly. Or if he's ok with coming to the door with them, make sure when they are leaving that he's sitting calmly by the door letting them go. This is a critical time for the dog, you always want to end everything on a good note, until he get's to the point where you want him to be.

And finally, mental stimulation. Make your training sessions short, no more than 5 minutes each, but do several each day. Check on some clicker training if you haven't already done so, and then Shaping. I'm now doing that with Betty, and she's starting to really get into it. She used to only be interested for a few minutes, and if she didn't get many treats, she would walk away. But now, I can't get her to stop. She just wants to work, work, work, lol. I taught her High-5, Gimme-10, and am now working on Weaving Between The Legs. All with Shaping. When doing shaping, just think of it as a movie clip, going frame by frame. Once you get the dog started with the clicker, then you can start this shaping. Think about what you want to teach the dog, then look at what each frame would look like, and click and treat. For Betty, I would just stand there, with one leg forward. And any movement towards my leg, she would get a click and treat. After a couple successes, then I would up the ante and only click any further movement until whe was actually walking under my leg, and then coming back around to the front. Once I accomplished one leg, then I started over with the other leg. Just because the dog learns one leg, the other leg is going to be completely new, so don't expect the dog to already know. I am now at the stage where I'm now linking both together as a chain. It's a lot of fun. And I keep my training sessions to 2-4 minutes each. They not only learn faster that way, but it doesn't give them the chance to get bored. That's where some people mess up, they feel they need to do a little more, then a little more, and don't stop, the the dog starts shutting down. You don't want to get to the point where the dog starts to shut down, you want to end it at the peak, and then allow them to process what they learned.

And finally, if you have any further questions, feel free to post them. There's a lot of good people that have experience with the Cattle Dogs on here. And we are more than happy to give whatever help we can. But because we are not actually there to see what exactly is happening, we may or may not be able to answer some questions, but post them anyways, just in case there is someone that can answer them. And good luck with your new dog.


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Here is a really good example of how NOT to handle a dog with resource guarding issues.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CNaGKy2Zvdo&feature=related


----------



## smileypits (Dec 25, 2008)

Lonebluewolf has lots of great advice, not much more to add except make sure to never coddle him w/ his fears or protection issues. Don't pet him and tell him "It's ok, she's ok, go say hi!" because that only increases his sureness that he should feel unsure and full of anxiety because you are petting him and say "it's ok to feel this way". Act unemotional and unattached when you have to put him in his room or when you are upset with him. This transfers more to him than anything else. 
I've never had a cattledog, but I've been around them and it seems that they are very alert and very sensitive to their owners, being able to sense things far beyond other breeds. Is your mom a "push over"? Your pup may know that. Is your bf family full of strong personalities? Little things like that.

No eye contact, No voice/talk and turned sideways are great things for people your pup is unsure of.

Kudos to you for adopting an older dog!! Yay!!!!


----------



## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Oh, and one last thing, we do require pics.... 

Here's my Betty on Christmas Day.....


----------



## Quigley's Mom (Dec 28, 2008)

thank you all so very much for your wonderful advice. lonewolf, i really appreciate all the thoughtful input you've given me. i'll definitely be giving him more walking exercise in addition to the other stuff.

smiley, my mom is actually a very strong and controlling personality. we have had a lot of problems in the past. i feel bad saying this because i love my mom very much, but sometimes she tries to run my life or whatever situation is going on and i just want her to BACK OFF. my annoyance, unfortunately can get very intense, and i strongly believe that quigley was able to pick up on it.

and now for picture time. 

this is quigley the day i brought him home (election day!)










this is quigley being well behaved with the garland while i decorated the tree










lonewolf, your betty is beautiful!


----------



## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Sounds good, and great looking dog. I have a real soft spot for Cattle Dogs, maybe it's because that's what my first dog was, which is Betty. She's been a challenge, but a very educational one. And since getting her, I've got 2 other dogs as well, which I had the opportunity to successfully get them together. And down the road, if you feel that a second dog might help with your current dog's issues, take it from someone who's done it, it doesn't help. It only strengthens their current personality, now instead of having you to protect, now he has you and another pack member to protect. So that's another thing I've had to work through, and glad I did. It's really given me something that I might need down the road if I decide to actually do dog training for more than just a hobby. I'm currently at the stage where I'm just doing a couple dog sittings/walkings, but want to work more towards actual dog training.

Again, great looking dog. I just love ACD's. They are such fast learners. My Betty's gone through Rally training, and went from barely knowing Sit and Down to doing a full Rally Novice Course, along with knowing all the hand commands that go with the verbal commands, in just 4 months time. She's just now going on about 3 years old, but don't know her true age because she is also a rescue from the Spokane Humane Society. 

Here's the link to my thread on Betty as well. Scroll down a ways, you'll see the short video of her starting to learn the weaving, and how the other dogs get in the way, lol. And if you are interested in going through the whole thread from the first page, just so you know, it will take you a while, lol. It's a really long thread, lol.

http://www.dogforums.com/3-dog-training-forum/16141-began-school-betty-8.html


----------



## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Quigley's Mom said:


> hello all, i'm a new member, here, and also the new owner of a 6 year old australian cattle dog that i adopted from the humane society in early november. i apologize in advance, this is going to be rather long.
> 
> a little background on quigley: he's definitely a house dog. he's surprisingly very mellow inside for his breed, not destructive, very cuddly, active outside..
> 
> ...



Welcome to the world of ACDs. Doesn't sound like he is object guarding. Sounds like he is guarding his person. ACDs can be very one person and want that person all to themselves. In a way you should feel honored because he loves you and took up with you quickly. But you have to get it under control. ACDs can forget you are the boss real quick. The advice on here is pretty good. Get him under control and let him know who is boss via NILIF. And work on socialization.


----------



## Quigley's Mom (Dec 28, 2008)

lonewolfblue, i'm really enjoying reading the thread about betty's schooling. quigley is pretty leash reactive around most things, but dogs especially. so i've been working with him on a long distance from dogs. i'll point to the dogs, and ask him to look at me, then he gets a treat. it's going to take a long time work to shorter distances, but i've noticed on quiet walks with no distractions, he watches me A LOT. so that's a huge improvement.


----------



## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Cool....

I probably would't point out the other dogs. Let him see them on his own, and then if he looks at you, treat and praise. It will take a lot of time, don't rush anything.


----------



## JAYBO837 (Dec 8, 2006)

WHAT A GOOD LOOKING K9,WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF CATTLEDOGS. FOR I TOO DEALT WITH A DINGO WHO IN THE BEGINING WAS TERRIFIED OF PEOPLE AND WAS ALWAYS NIPPING. DONT GET ME WRONG, SHE GETS TREATS ...BUT I HAVE NEVER FELT THAT WHEN TEACHING K9s THAT YOU NEED TO GIVE TREATS FOR EACH COMMAND THAT IS PERFORMED. I HAVE SEEN OVER TIME THAT THEY WILL TEND TO EXSPECT ONE EACH TIME. EVERY PET IS DIFFERENT.


----------



## JESSJAME5 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry to bring up an old thread - But I'm curious how it all went with Quigley.. I've got an almost 6 month old cattle dog who I've had since he was 10 weeks old. He's still technically a foster dog as that was the original plan but I've fallen in love with him and plan to adopt him, and only recently has the whole "guarding me" thing started. Trying to work on it but I'm not finding a working solution. His issue is things that come from me HAVE to be his, i.e. treats. A treat from me can't go to another dog or he gets very aggressive at that dog. And there's been one time where this was over a toy as well. He also does the barking at people occasionally, like at my dads house. He doesn't seem to like my dad or my sisters boyfriend (I can understand the sisters boyfriend, he hates dogs, has a dodgy look, I think Toby can just tell). But my dad I'm not sure of, Toby's fine with him if dad sits down next to me on the couch, he gets pats from him and cuddles but as soon as dad gets up to move, he barks.

Hopefully Quigley's guarding issues of you were sorted out and hopefully you may have some good tips? Thanks!


----------



## lindseybee (Apr 23, 2021)

Ok so clearly you know cattle dogs.. here’s my recent issue.
My best friend had puppies and I called dibs on the only male pup. I was around him a handful of times before I was allowed to take him home. I would hold him for a few minutes and put him back. I picked him at 8 weeks and once we got home I introduced him to my 5 year old golden (girl, cuddler). He would sit in my lap and growled at her. Wouldn’t let her in the room with me at eight whole weeks old! They had no issues getting along. I made sure to call my girl so he knew I wanted her with me.
I had been in a rent house looking for house and land knowing what this cattle dog required. Four months old I kicked him out at a friends ranch not so close. That way he got the room to run along another very independent grown healer. He stayed in a stock trailer until he acclimated to the area. No one was around for miles, neighboring ranch rather close had poor care for their cattle. You’d see 15+ coyotes in 30 minutes. He clearly learned how to get after them. I’d visit and he didn’t know whether to work cattle or guard me. 

Two/three months go by and I get a house with land and bring him home. He would not let my boyfriend’s parent’s male dog near me whatsoever. He’s gotten way better about it now. Never growled or anything at him. No one would notice unless you paid close attention.

Fast forward to now.. same boyfriend, same house, nothings changed. We use a ball thrower multiple times a day (before work, midday if I’m home, when we get home and right before bed).

Tonight when my boyfriend got to pestering me to be funny, the cattle dog started nipping at him. I walked we told him no and I walked away, but he still went back to nip at him! Two hours later my boyfriend laid on the couch with me and the cattle dog got up to nip at his ankle but this time I really got onto him.

How do I make sure this does not progress with my boyfriend? He does not do any kind of abuse to me. We both have worked on training the dog so that he responds to both of us. My boyfriend rubs on him every night.


----------



## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

This thread is almost 13 years old, and none of the posters are active anymore. I am going to close this to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread, and you'll be more likely to get replies. 

Honestly, though this sounds like an issue that a professional should assess. It's quite difficult for a bunch of people on the internet who don't know and can't see your dog to weigh in.


----------

