# Tough client and dog



## 0hmyd0g (Aug 18, 2008)

tomorrow I am grooming a difficult little shih tzu. The dog is only two, and has been to another groomer twice, and to me once. The owner insists on holding the dog while it's groomed. The first time I let her since she really insisted that the dog needs her there, but while grooming her I noticed that the dog is incredibly dominating and the owner reinforces it by babying her. The dog bites and moves a lot so requires someone to hold her since she moves so much she might hurt herself. The reason she switched groomers is because the last groomer was too serious and didn't have customer service skills. Also because the last groomer used a noose and a muzzle for her dog. :| I always use a noose unless the dog has throat problems. I don't know how to ween this lady off her dog so that I can groomer it and train it. I have another person here that can hold, and I think I can train the dog but this lady REALLY insists on being there. Also she's never had a dog before, complains about the price (I had to charge 10$ extra for severe matting and for behavour, I think that's a really good price) and is a terrible listener. Any suggestions?


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

0hmyd0g said:


> tomorrow I am grooming a difficult little shih tzu. The dog is only two, and has been to another groomer twice, and to me once. The owner insists on holding the dog while it's groomed. The first time I let her since she really insisted that the dog needs her there, but while grooming her I noticed that the dog is incredibly dominating and the owner reinforces it by babying her. The dog bites and moves a lot so requires someone to hold her since she moves so much she might hurt herself. The reason she switched groomers is because the last groomer was too serious and didn't have customer service skills. Also because the last groomer used a noose and a muzzle for her dog. :| I always use a noose unless the dog has throat problems. I don't know how to ween this lady off her dog so that I can groomer it and train it. I have another person here that can hold, and I think I can train the dog but this lady REALLY insists on being there. Also she's never had a dog before, complains about the price (I had to charge 10$ extra for severe matting and for behavour, I think that's a really good price) and is a terrible listener. Any suggestions?



This client sounds like more trouble than she's worth.

Do you work for yourself or someone else? Where I work, it is against policy for owners to restrain their dogs, for safety reasons. You could explain this to your employer and have your employer tell her for you (if you have one)

"I apologize, but we have a new policy that states owners cannot be involved with the grooming process because it is a safety hazard and a liability. I am working with sharp tools, and if the dog moves quickly, I could easily nick you! Feel free to watch the groom, but please do not allow your dog to see you. Most dogs will behave better when their mom/dad is not around."


10$ is nothing for severe matting! This lady is gonna be a PITA every time you groom the dog. 

"The reason I must charge more for a matted pet is because my job is to wash and cut the hair. I schedule my appointments to allow enough time to do that. If your pet is matted, it will take me much longer to do my job, and my time is valuable. Your pet is not the only one I am grooming today. There are also many risks involved..." ect ect....

I used to be afraid to speak my mind. Not anymore. If it were me, I would tell her the way I work. 

"You drop off the dog, and I call you when he is finished. I charge this amount. It is non-negoitable. This is how I run my business. If this does not work for you, I can refer you to another groomer who may meet your needs."


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

first off, you are the groomer, and she is the customer. YOU make the decisions when it comes to grooming. You need to tell her that her holding the dog does not help, and is making things worse. if she still insists on holding the dog, tell her to go to another groomer. tell her the price estimate up front (give the absolute minimum and maximum, like anywhere between 35 and 60), so that she cant get mad abnout it later. dont let her take advantage of you. grooming is a tricky business b/c customer service usually means that you do everything in your power to make the customer happy. you need to not think of it that way. think of it more as doggy service, you are there to make the dog happy, and dealing with the owner comes with it. if the owner is making it impossible for you to not only safely groom the dog, but to comfortably groom the dog, then tell her to find someone else to groom the dog. explain everything in terms of the dog: "i dont want you to hold your dog b/c she acts worse with you here, almost all dogs do", "i need to use a noose b/c it is the safest thing to do while the dog is 5 feet off the ground on a table", "i will muzzle your dog is necessary b/c not only could i get bit, but you and your dog will be investigated by animal control if he bites me". m not saying to be rude, just let her know in the nicest way possible that she is making things very difficult, not for you, but for her dog. the ONLY way to get through to people like this is to make them see that they are hurting their dog, b/c they can usually care less about you (they think of it as your job, and think that you should do whatever they say). that is not how it works, you are the groomer and should be dictating how you groom your dogs.

but again be nice, b/c she wont have a leg to stand on if not only are you right, but your sweet as pie about it. keep on saying that you want nothing more than to groom little fluffy, that you love her dog, you just want the best for her. if she gets mad and huffy, calmly explain how sorry you are that she is unhappy with your policies, but they are there for a reason and she is free to find someone else to groom her dog. i would also advise having an employee in the room to hear everything in case she goes even more crazy and lodges a complaint.


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## Don152 (Jan 31, 2008)

As a customer who thought the grooming would go better with me there, I can tell you what I would have liked: Someway to watch the groomer in action such as closed circuit TV or web cam, a one way mirror, or even just video taping the session one time and giving me the tape. I am not a dominated owner and I am in good control of my dog so I really thought it would be better if I was present even if it usually is not when owners are there. In fact this was the case when a groomer tried to do her nails alone and then asked me to help. Perhaps she does not trust you; this method would also serve to allay her concerns. I always wondered if groomers didn’t want owners there because if it was easier to groom that way, or if they just didn’t want any witnesses. (Flame on if you must, but it was a thought that crossed my mind)


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## Purplex15 (May 28, 2007)

Don152 said:


> As a customer who thought the grooming would go better with me there, I can tell you what I would have liked: Someway to watch the groomer in action such as closed circuit TV or web cam, a one way mirror, or even just video taping the session one time and giving me the tape. I am not a dominated owner and I am in good control of my dog so I really thought it would be better if I was present even if it usually is not when owners are there. In fact this was the case when a groomer tried to do her nails alone and then asked me to help. Perhaps she does not trust you; this method would also serve to allay her concerns. I always wondered if groomers didn’t want owners there because if it was easier to groom that way, or if they just didn’t want any witnesses. (Flame on if you must, but it was a thought that crossed my mind)


do you have any idea how impractical and expensive it is for a groomer to do the things you suggested? i understand that YOU have good control over your dog, but most do not. most want to be there to baby the dog when it acts up, and that is not helpful. i will only flame your statement of you wondering if it is actually easier to groom the dog without the owner, or if we dont want witnesses,b/c that is just an awful thing to say. i highly doubt you feel the same way about your car when you take it in for servicing, hell i doubt most people are that careful about who they leave their kids with (i will watch you give my kid a haircut b/c im afraid of what you will do without a witness? come on). i have many customers who are great with their dogs, and can be there to help b/c they understand what to do. they know not to baby talk or to even talk to the dog at all when im grooming. they know if i want help ill ask, they dont need to just stand next to the dog the whole time. 

if people are seriosuly THAT over protective of their pet, then i really dont want the busines. there are enough dog owners who are awesome to deal with that i dont need to deal with those who think im going to hurt their dog the second they walk out the door. yes, there some awful groomers out there, but that is with every business. and most of those groomers make it obvious (at least to me) that they do not care about dogs. i have yet to hear of a grooming abuse story that didnt begin with an owner who didnt do enough research.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Of course it would cross your mind, and for some meanies, may be true. But I would say for 90% of groomers, that is not the case. I would not care at all if someone watched me groom every second of the day, as long as it did not effect the way their dogs acted.


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## Don152 (Jan 31, 2008)

Purplex15 said:


> do you have any idea how impractical and expensive it is for a groomer to do the things you suggested?


Expensive? I can leave my camcorder recording on the shelf next to the grooming table and you give it back to me when I come back to pick up my dog. I go home and watch it. If there are no problems then I know its the best if I am not there.. no cost to the groomer and now I am a customer for life!



Purplex15 said:


> if people are seriosuly THAT over protective of their pet, then i really dont want the busines. there are enough dog owners who are awesome to deal with that i dont need to deal with those who think im going to hurt their dog the second they walk out the door. yes, there some awful groomers out there, but that is with every business. and most of those groomers make it obvious (at least to me) that they do not care about dogs. i have yet to hear of a grooming abuse story that didnt begin with an owner who didnt do enough research.


Perhaps you don't want my business if you are not willing to work with me a little. First you assume there are a lot of groomers to choose from. In my case I live outside the city and the car ride is very rough because of my dog not liking the car. So I wont drive too far just to pay someone $55 to cut her hair. I wont say I am sorry that I care enough about my dog to want some assurance that the groomer is a good one.


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## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

GroovyGroomer777 said:


> This client sounds like more trouble than she's worth.
> 
> Do you work for yourself or someone else? Where I work, it is against policy for owners to restrain their dogs, for safety reasons. You could explain this to your employer and have your employer tell her for you (if you have one)
> 
> ...


 This sounds like the best advice.

I know that when Chloe gets groomed, I am so glad I have the ability to do it myself (I work at the clinic as an assistant groomer and kennel staff so if I bathe/groom her myself, I can do so for free). If I didn't work where I do, I would NOT want someone else grooming her. Not because I don't trust the person, but I don't trust Chloe. She lets me groom her, trim her nails, bathe her, and blowdry her, but that took a lot of work on my part to let her let me do so. Having a strange person do the same thing? I see dog bites in the making. 
And most groomers (not all, but it takes some looking around) don't have the time to deal with a dog that isn't well behaved. They need to get things done and that doesn't include taking hours out of their day to work with a dog to let them trim its nails without it spazzing out. And if there is one thing I DON'T want to happen to Chloe is her to be muzzled and restrained by a stranger to do something she isn't comfortable with. That would undo all of my work over the past year and a half. 

But, that being said, I wouldn't ask a groomer to inconvience him or herself to let me help with the groom...I'd just get the equipment I need to do it myself at home.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

I insist on being there for almost everything my dog goes through. I had the vet AND the assistant tell me it would be better, when drawing blood, if I wasn't there. I watched from the doorway and the dog did NOT know I was there and they were right. The first time I was there, she was a tad anxious and fussed a bit. This time, I wasn't there and she was perfectly fine.

A lot of dogs feel their owner's anxiety and get anxious. If they're good groomers and relaxed and good with dogs, the dog will do better without you.

If you wanted to leave a camcorder there to catch the grooming session to reassure you it went well and the groomer said no way, then I'd be suspicious. If you put it the way you did on here, I can't see why the groomer wouldn't allow it to be there. If they went out of the camera focus though or stood in front of the lens at times moving around the dog, I hope you'd understand that.


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## Don152 (Jan 31, 2008)

I agree it does depend on the owner, and his/her attitude. I was there for the entire physical last time including blood.. I held her gently and told her firmly to stay while they drew blood. No problems. Also I see many owners don’t want they dog restrained or muzzled. I have no problem with that.. it can easily prevent injuries to the dog or people. If they want her muzzled they can, or I will do it for them. I might be an exception; I am in many other ways. There was the time I got to the groomers too early and they were still working on my dog.. She saw me through a window and was SOOOO happy and excited they could not keep clipping. I had to crouch down and hide behind the counter. I understood that and even tried to sneak in next time in case the same situation occurred.
Re-reading the original posters question, I think that client is not a good dog owner and the type of person that gives everyone a hard time. I stand by my suggestions and those of many others here, but I doubt you will be able to make her happy. Still if you can explain the reasons for the procedures in a way she can appreciate you might make some progress. You can but try, and if the boss insists, deal with her no matter what. If you’re the boss, try to explain and reason with her until you are sure it’s a lost cause.
BTW, Do you think that Pet smart/co puts windows in their grooming salons for advertising, or to make the owners more comfortable and confident of the groomers? Just wondering.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

I think they do that just to make the lives of their groomers a little more stressfull! A couple years ago, I was a Petsmart groomer, and I can't tell you how many times I would be working on a dog....someone would knock on the window and gesture me to leave the salon and go talk to them.... so I would have to take my dog off the table, put him in a kennel, and go talk to them... and usualy they would make me come out to them to ask -

"What kind of dog is that?"


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

"BTW, Do you think that Pet smart/co puts windows in their grooming salons for advertising, or to make the owners more comfortable and confident of the groomers? Just wondering." Don152

I think they do it for both reasons, but especially advertising. Don't fool yourself; Petsomething stores (like all businesses) are in business to make money. They can get more clients and therefore make more money by the novelty of keeping their groomers in a fish bowl so owners can see their precious booboo snookumspies getting over joyed watching them through the windows while the groomer attempts to work. Other customers can also see how precious booboo snookumspies is looking and will want to bring their dogs in, too. What most customers don't realize is that there IS a back room for dogs who aren't able to be groomed behind glass, but who aren't bad enough to send home.


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## Don152 (Jan 31, 2008)

pamperedpups said:


> "BTW, Do you think that Pet smart/co puts windows in their grooming salons for advertising, or to make the owners more comfortable and confident of the groomers? Just wondering." Don152
> 
> ....What most customers don't realize is that there IS a back room for dogs who aren't able to be groomed behind glass, but who aren't bad enough to send home.


LOL, thats about what I expected. Its all about image.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

I have had first time clients ask to stay and watch. I never say anything but "Of course you can watch." I do however, not let them hold, restrain, or otherwise interefere with the grooming. I have come across maybe 5 owners in 9 years of grooming that were actually able to have a positive influence on their pet while I was working on it. (Don, you are the exeption!!! By far!) I tell clients my reasons as were stated above. Insurance, liability, the pet needs to bond and trust/respect me..and with mom/dad standing over it, it makes it feel like it needs to protect mom/dad/itself FROM me. I have never had a client ask to stay for the entire groom after the first time. I do however, have clients that drive over and hour, and will sit in the waiting area while I groom their pet straight thru. And I do have one client with an elderly shih tzu that has health issues who stays for the entire groom, sitting in a chair about 15 feet from the grooming table. She washed the dog at home the day before.( I truly think the problem lies more in the owner anxiousness than the dog's, but she tips very well, she never speaks unless I speak to her, she minds her newspaper so as not to distract the dog, and she prebooks every 4 weeks. ) I would have no problem whatsoever with an owner setting up a camera, etc..Heck, I have entire grooms of a few dogs posted on U tube. I have nothing to hide, and am very open about grooming, and my salon is very open, for that reason. 

If I were in your situation, I would tell the owner that she is welcome to stay and watch, but she cannot interfere, or try to handle the dog in any way. No talking to her, etc. I also insist on grooming loops for safety, and if that was a deal breaker for her, then I would try to refer her to another groomer, and wish her the best. 

What happens if while you are grooming her dog, the dog bites her? Do you realize that YOU are liable for that? She can SUE you! The dog is in your care, in your business, and YOU are the professional...if the owner is injured, even by her own dog, YOU are liable...Talk to your insurance agent and learn where you are covered, and where you aren't. 

And am I correct in that this dog is 2 years old, and have been groomed 3 times in it's life? That is one reason why the dog is "difficult." It has little experience being groomed, the owner doesn't instil confidence in the dog, but rather insecurities, and the current way of grooming is not working.


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## 0hmyd0g (Aug 18, 2008)

Some of you posted some great advice and it really helped to know how you would handle it. This is what I did: When she came in I had her sit next to me on the couch with her dog and have a chat with me first. I wanted her to feel like I'm not rushing anything and to make her feel better about leaving the dog with me. 
I asked to hold her dog, and I petted her. I asked "how has she been at home towards other dogs and people" she said she's great with everyone but she's very protective of her family people if she's sitting on thier laps. I also asked her how she felt about me being able to groom her by myself, and she said "I don't know... I'm nervous about leaving her here still" I said that I wanted to try grooming her without her holding the dog, but she could stay in the lobby on the couch "just in case" (I knew the dog would be better alone with me but I just said that to make the owner feel better). I even said that if she wanted she could peek through the window and watch.
I told her the noose was so the dog wouldn't jump of the table, and to keep it safe. It's not to "string it up" like she put it. Well, the dog was FINE!!! It took me longer to groom it because she was matted, and she did bite me once because I don't have a muzzle for a dog that small, but the dog was defiantly doable. I even did her feet no problems. Just a lot of praise and gentle handling. The owner was so HAPPY! she was almost crying! She paid the amount including the $20 extra for shaving the dog with a #10 since it was matted, and tipped me a lot! Even though my coworker told me last time to just send her somewhere else, I'm very glad I didn't .

Oh and also, I got her to book her next appointment in 6 weeks. I'll have to give her a reminder call though. I think she'll be a regular now, hopefully.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

That is fabulous news. You handled it perfectly. I'm not sure I would have had the patience.

Isn't it weird how some people are so protective of their dogs because they "love their babies so much", yet they neglect the very basic need of keeping their dog's hair from matting? It's so confusing to me.

Someone please enlighten me because this has been making me crazy for five years, I just can't wrap my head around it!!


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## Don152 (Jan 31, 2008)

0hmyd0g said:


> Some of you posted some great advice and it really helped to know how you would handle it. This is what I did: ...[words were here].. I'm very glad I didn't
> .


Way to go! A little extra effort pays off... now when can I make my appointment with you?  
Wait you are where?? Heck I might have to fly to get there.. oh well.

As for why they let them get so matted, I can only think it is similar to the situation I had with my dogs nails.. it was so hard to clip them that I let them get a little too long before I realized I had to deal with the issue. Finally after much work with her (and an improvised grooming table) I can do the nails myself. So perhaps the owner put off grooming because of how difficult it was (for her or the dog).


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

I see that as a one time occurance.... 
You dealt with the issue after you saw that it was important.

I don't think you would know because you are not a groomer and probably a responsible dog owner, but many people bring in their dogs 3-4x a year and they are so matted every single time that they need to be shaved all the way down to the skin.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

Wow, that's wonderful!! Maybe she just needed "the personal touch" of a quick chat with you first, get to know you a bit, and now she trusts you. I'm so glad you tried this instead of just chucking her. Way to go! You're obviously a very good people person! It's people like you that make the world a better place  Kudos!!!


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

That is SO great! You showed the owner that you were a professional, and knew what you were doing, and that her pet was safe with you, and she was welcome to stay. All turned out well. Next time the little dog will be even better for you I bet. Great job!


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

That is absolutely swell that you were able to get through to this woman! 

I am also in the 'majority boat' that mostly for liability reasons I WILL not allow the owner to handle, or be in the general grooming area; even if their own dog bites them, then the shop is responsible; and if someone ELSE'S dog bites...won't even go there! 

I'm cool with them watching, as I have nothing to hide...but I don't want them to help in the grooming as a general rule; there have been a few exceptions in my years of grooming, but those are few and far between, especially when I am able to show the owner that I know what I am doing, and their pet is perfectly fine with how I handle them. It does take people skills though, to talk to some owners, especially some first timers!!!


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