# Heelwork video (critique please?)



## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

OK, go easy on me. This is the first time we've practiced real obedience exercises outside my home in about 3 months. We primarily did Rally during this session, but practiced formal heeling a bit so I decided to get the cones out to work the Figure 8:






I know that her sits are a bit crooked (probably partially due to my inability to grasp the halting footwork) and my leash is dangerously close to being tight because of how short I had it, but I'm happy with her attention and her changing of speed around each turn. 

I have not yet added the word "heel" because I didn't want Marge to think heel meant forging or lagging is OK, but I think we're close enough now that I can probably say it.

What do you think? What else can be improved? How good or bad is it? 

We're looking to do a UKC Obedience trial in June. She's familiar with all of the exercises except for the Stand For Exam (which I'm not really looking forward to teaching), and honestly, that might be the one thing that holds us back from competing.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Your dog is fabulous. I am a handling geek, so take this in the spirit in which it's offered, ok? I had a FABULOUS Obedience instructor, and she was a handling GENIUS.

You need to do the Fig. 8 by yourself without the dog until you feel comfortable, and look smooth and natural doing it. Many judges will hit you hard for not standing up straight, and that big bounce you are taking as you step off. You have a nice working dog, and I don't think you need to do these things to get good work out of her. You are also short stepping and waiting for her on the outside loop. If anything I would be speeding up on the outside loop, and quite a bit, and make her work to keep up with you. Work on keeping your pace regular and your step strides the same except for your cue steps for change of pace. When you are working your dog, filming or not, always take the chance to help her if she needs it. Don't wait until she is out of position, if you feel her going the wrong way, help her. If she needs to build up her enthusiasm, do it, even if it means breaking out of the exercise to play.

Are you using actual cue steps for halts and changes of pace?


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Thank you, Red! The bounce was something I actually picked up from the instructor at my club.. had no idea that it could be faulted. Maybe I am implementing it wrong. Unfortunately, I couldn't continue with class due to school obligations, which is why I'm doing a lot of this myself.

And it is true, now that I think about it, I do not stand up straight. And waiting for her on the second loop. I do babysit her a little too much, don't I?  (It is my biggest handling problem in agility, too, and the reason why we totally smoke our rear crosses and destroy our front crosses...)

I am using cue steps. I'm trying to do a "braking step" with my left leg (a sort of exaggerated heel-toe step -- again, something else I picked up from the few times I took class), then two half steps to halt. Same braking step for slowing down. Leaning forward just a tad to cue the fast pace.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Looking good 

Just for clarity, regarding the "not standing up straight" it's not just the leaning forward...my bigger concern would be the twisting to look at her. Tends to drop your shoulder back which can cause lagging, though Marge seems to not be concerned about that. However, it also gets the dog used to viewing your whole face as she works, which can then translate to crooked sits as you stop and she's trying to keep that picture of "most of your face"...resulting in rotation of her body outward. 

+2 on smoothing out...marching is undesired...go for a smooth, even cadence. Walk normally...a quick, steady, rhythmic normal lol. 

Seriously though she looks nice. If she Figure 8's that nicely with people-poles in a trial you'd pass a Nov. level Figure 8 with no problem...but it's always more fun to pass with a perfect


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

These are great tips for my next hour of ring time at the club.  And yes, people poles are quite different than cones, aren't they? We'll be matching at least a couple of times before trialing, so we'll see how that goes. She DID have a couple of sessions working with people (the instructor was one of them) and did fabulously, a good sign!


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Good luck!!


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

The cue steps we used were:

Taking off: A slightly shorter step to allow the dog time to get up and start off with you

Normal to fast: a slightly shorter quicker step with the left foot
Slowing down, normal to slow, fast to normal: A slightly longer slower step with the left foot
Halt: A slightly shorter slower step with the left foot.

Here is a clip from when I was training Penny for Novice. The commentary is from my instructor, trainer of several OTCH dogs, winner of a 200 score in Open B, etc.

It's very small, taken on an ANCIENT camera several years ago, but you can see how we were working it with a dog who needed a bit more oomph and drive on the outside loop. And yeah, I need to stand up straighter too, I was baiting her a lot. 

[video]http://www.redyre.com/Fig8Feb15.MPG[/video]


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Interesting. I wish the video were bigger, it was fascinating to watch  Hopefully I'll be able to drop in to an obedience class soon, working with the instructor really was beneficial. I wish she offered private lessons.

I'm going to give it one final push with the cue steps I've been using and then think about a change. The pace transitions are going OK for us, but the halting is really getting me. I also need to practice on my own some more, you're right (that's how I got the about turn down pat.. it took SO long! lol)


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

I love her attention. I thought she did a beautiful turn around the right cone after the stop at 0:15, she brings her butt in on the inside turn.

Red, I have a question for you (if Sam doesn't mind me hijacking the thread). Where is the *handler* supposed to look? Are you supposed to look at the dog? I don't know, it seems sort of rude to not return the eye contact, but at the same time someone has to look where we're going. 

Sam, I think standing up straight might straighten Marge's sits. Sometimes it looks like you're leaning toward her, and it's pushing her head and front end away from you.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks, Raegan. And please, feel free to threadjack.  I want to learn these things, too. I don't think you're supposed to look at the dog (at least not turning your head the way I am).


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

I was always told by my instructor that you should walk naturally with your head up, and glance at the dog frequently to maintain your connection.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

I can't offer any advice, but you guys look lovely. Marge is really a cute dog


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Oooooo goody ! :whoo: .. *rubs evil hands together* .. somebody wants a critique ! Moo hoo ha ha !

(absolutely just kidding  lol)



As Red said, you can / should practice F8 without the dog. In the initial learning stages, I like to have the handler hold both arms straight out to the sides, horizontally, as they go around the entire 8 a few times. Remember when you were a kid, how you did the "airplane imitation" ? .. do that. Tip your arms ever-so-slightly, so that your shoulders roll just a bit with each turn, down and in for the inside turn, up and out for the outside turn. Level out for the straightaways. This should give you a good feel of proper shoulder position for going through the turns. Shoulder position will help to alleviate lagging on the outside and forging on the inside. Also, same as with straightline heeling, practice shoulders forward just a bit when you start, and shoulders back just a bit when you stop. Be careful not to side-step into the dog on halts, a common mistake.

I also like to set the dog up for the excercise much closer to the imaginary line drawn between the posts, reason being that if you take numerous steps before you even start to turn, then there's that many more steps to get marked on for heel position, and possibly get dinged for points off. One single straight step should suffice before beginning your turn. Personally, counter-intuitively, I like to start with my RIGHT foot exclusively for F8 and do the outside post first, reason being that sometimes when you start with the left foot it may tend to inadvertantly push the dog out of position, especially if you are going to do the inside post first. By the same token, learn to stay tight to the posts if you can, .. again ... less steps means less margin for getting dinged.

If you are using treats / food rewards, make sure to break down and reinforce EVERY component of the F8 heelwork ... especially the first step. Feed in nice and tight to your thigh so the dog learns to stay tight.

To help break up the monotony and predictability of the F8, occassionally throw in an about turn instead of a halt and keep going, ... and some fasts and slows as well. Try releasing and running "out" spontaneously, perhaps run to a pre-determined place for a hidden jackpot etc. 

As for the handler's focal point ... that depends on the particular dog. Some dogs prefer constant eye contact, others may prefer when the handler looks forward. Focusing six feet out is a good general rule of thumb. Eye contact may prove to be a bit tough on the dog's positioning when going through the outside turn. Also, I find that it helps for the handler to look at the feet of the post when beginning to go around.


Hope this helps, not much of a critique, I suppose more like suggestions .. 

But anyways ... NICE WORK !!! NICE WORKING DOG !!! I see lots o' "fun" trialling in your future !!!

ADD: ... nice training too, Red !!!


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Thank you all so much. 

Marge definitely does prefer constant eye contact while heeling. Perhaps I can work on keeping my head straight and just glancing at her from the corner of my eye.

I'm still debating which direction I want to go; the inside turn is definitely her stronger half.

I wish I had the space in my house to do it; my living room is close, but it's just a teeny bit too small.. I suppose I could at least work on the handling myself in there, though. Going to try the arms-out thing, and also run her out of the right turn for a reward (I've seen people do this but never have done it myself).


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Well, I did some practice today.. not figure 8 practice, just heel position stuff.. a quasi-shaping kind of thing, having Marge wiggle her way around my left side to find the perfect position (with a straight sit). Also clicked for her maintaining eye contact with me facing straight ahead. Was fun.  It's so tempting, I want to do more, but know I should keep our sessions very short to keep it motivating!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Nice attention on your dog but there are some things you could work on.

Along with what has been mentioned so far, watch your left hand position. It moves around. ANCHOR that hand.. (I tuck a finger inmy belt buckle). 

Look where you are going and NOT at your dog. When you look at your dog you twist your upper body and this forces your dog to be crooked. Shoulder position shoud be left shoulder slightly back on the left turn and slightly forward on the right turn.. you lead your dog's position with your shoulder. By looking at your dog you force her AWAY from you

When you halt or start, as mentioned, prepare your dog. Slight lean forward and half step starting out. Stand up STRAIGHT (and pinch your shoulders back) along with the 1/2 step before your halt.. and look straight ahead. You will be amazed how much this straightens your halts (and straightens your dog at the halt). Same with speeding up and slowing down for the Fast and the Slow. 

Love your dog and her attention.. now we got to fix the handler errors because those are messing up your dog's position and accuracy. 

BTW the way I know this? I get pointed on it.... and if I was better my dog would point higher. I have a bum knee and a bum ankle and I rock when I walk.. and I have to REALLY work to keep my upper body still and positioned correctly (or my dog goes wide.. like "Uh Oh.. she's gonna fall on me.. I just know it!" 

Oh yes.. the bounce step out will be considered a 'second command' under some judges.... 

And again.. REALLY like your dog.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks. This thread is enormously beneficial.. now I am really seeing where I need to improve. 

I hope to have some more video soon - now that school's done, I'd like to rent some more time at the club so I have the space to work on this (both by myself and with the dog). Perhaps I'll take a video of me heeling around the cones sans dog.. LOL

One other thing.. my instructor said I might want to try to fix her pacing, as it might cause her to fall back on some of the turns. But I think that's really the gait that she feels comfortable working at.. any suggestions? I'd have to walk pretty darn fast to get her to trot at my side constantly (she does pick up a trot around the right turns most of the time), yet she's too small to work at a walk. Trotting also tends to make her forge on the straight heeling (I think it's really just harder for her to match my speed).


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Walking with a longer or shorter stride changes the dog. If you get to the turn to the right around the cones and speed up your feet but shorten your stride length, your dog may hurry a bit and come up into you a bit more (try it). I actually train walking the turn to the left and jog (as much as bum legs will) on the turn to the right! 

Another thing you can try is lengthening your stride on the straight which will speed you up naturally. The faster forward you move at the heel the better most large dogs heel with you. People tend to be pokey heeling. Don't be! Again... having a long strided dog I have learned. She will wobble, go wide etc. if I do not move forward quickly! for the FAST you now will have to actually break into a run or jog. And remember the slow is obvilusly slow. I take shortened strides and walk slowly for the slow... again, standing up straight, and taking a half step into the slow before going slow. My dog follows those cues or warning signals. 

I was thinking of getting a video recorder to record me with Atka.. thought I would have the $$.. but so far that has not materialized. I do need to get one tho so I can improve my accuracy. 

It is FAR easier for me to see what you are doing wrong than for me to see what I am doing wrong when I am doing it. The POV helps. 

Foot work is also very important for things like the right and left turns and the about turn. Foot work you practice without the dog.. and then you add the dog and you will usually start blowing the foot work.. it takes awhile to put it together. I know. I still am. LOL


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## dobedvm (Nov 1, 2010)

sam next time i see you guys i can show you some footwork stuff and show you how to smooth things out - which DP show are you going to? im not going to do many, but i can try to do the same one you're doing. OR - we're not that far away, maybe ill come do a rental at SI one day and you can share with me - or one of the matches? 

she's adorable and she's got great attention. most of this is handling, and others have pointed it out. smooth, roll your feet. drive through your turns but don't bounce and don't slow down on the outer post. i do maintain some degree of eye contact, but yours is going to be pointed a bit because its excessive. she's not going to be pushed away because she likes it, but you do need to work it just a bit, and don't break the plane of your body so much. halts and crooked sits can be fixed if you don't lean in and catch it before she sits wrong. 

let me know if you want to meet up some time and we can do some work, on an off weeekend its not a big deal for me to come out to SI. i need to get out to LI too to work some go outs... (doggie U?)... rah is entered in brookhaven in january. when is SICDTC's next match? we're both going to do the 4h show in march, i hear  

marge is an ADORABLE worker! i loved the work i saw out of her at the APDT trial...


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

dobedvm said:


> sam next time i see you guys i can show you some footwork stuff and show you how to smooth things out - which DP show are you going to? im not going to do many, but i can try to do the same one you're doing. OR - we're not that far away, maybe ill come do a rental at SI one day and you can share with me - or one of the matches?
> 
> she's adorable and she's got great attention. most of this is handling, and others have pointed it out. smooth, roll your feet. drive through your turns but don't bounce and don't slow down on the outer post. i do maintain some degree of eye contact, but yours is going to be pointed a bit because its excessive. she's not going to be pushed away because she likes it, but you do need to work it just a bit, and don't break the plane of your body so much. halts and crooked sits can be fixed if you don't lean in and catch it before she sits wrong.
> 
> ...


I'd love to work with you, Kim! How nice of you to offer. Our next match is January 29 (probably after your trial, unfortunately). We've also got APDT stuff coming up in January - my club's trial and also the Bearded Collie Club's trial - will you be around then? I'm likely going to be at Dream Park for the two DCKC shows (two weekends in a row) and that's it. Had no idea you were doing the 4-H show too - it was so nice of Tina to offer that to me 

I've definitely taken some big steps back and am just working on rewarding her for position.. finding the correct position at my side and then maintaining it for a couple of heeling steps. I've stopped the bounce and am just taking a slightly longer first step to start out. I've stopped turning to look at her and am either glancing out of the corner of my eye or simply looking ahead and she does seem to be maintaining eye contact. I'm pushing my shoulders back and half stepping to the halt and she's really straightening her sits. Amazing how all of that matters... amazing how different it is from agility training! lol


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