# At two months? Wow... Just wow...



## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

My 2 month old Rottweiler puppy has Hip dysplasia. I do have a guarantee, so i may get a refund, but it's not what i'm interested in.

The ethics... I want the puppy, every living thing deserves to live. I also do not enjoy getting ****ed over and would like to know what i can ask in compensation or do so i may feel that this deal was fair.

_I had trouble explaining my feeling, ethics and attitude. i wrote for about 30 minutes, but decided to make this a discussion, instead of me gushing out in here._​


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

And this is why most puppy guarantees of hips are kinda useless. No one wants to give the puppy back after they have it, especially since it's very likely to be euthed. It's a phantom guarantee.

Friends of mine got a black GSD puppy 7 years ago. As soon as I saw it I knew his hips were bad..he turned out to have GR 3 dysplasia in both hips. His owners kept him and have had him on good joint supplements and pain relief (expensive and hard on the dog's liver...but better than pain) as they did not want to do surgery. He still has good quality of life, is playful and has a great temperament, though they know his live will likely be shorter than a healthy dog, he does have a good life. If it were me, I would have done the surgery, but that's me.

You have some decisions to make, have you spoken to the breeder at all?


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

It is impossible for an 8 weeks old puppy to have Hip Dysplasia. There is not enough calcification at 8 weeks for arthritic changes to have happened, and 8 week old puppies normally have quite a bit of joint laxity.

Why do you feel your 8 week old puppy has HD? How long have you had this puppy?


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Red is right. It's too early to evaluate especially in a large breed because bone and joint conformation changes so much during growth. There is a reason why OFA and PennHip will not give a final evaluation of a juvenile dog. I would get a second opinion.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Who told you this pup has HD and what method did they use to conclude this?


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Yes.. when I first read this I was like, "Way too young.. Way Way too young... to know.."


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100902093454.htm

This article speaks of being able to test hip laxity and predicting onset of CHD later in puppies as young as 16 weeks. If the pup above has extensive hip laxity at 8 weeks or has been shown to have congenital defects in the hip joint itself it IS possible to be dysplastic (or highly likely to be dysplastic earlier than other dogs), just not dysplastic in the way we most commonly see it..no?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Cracker said:


> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100902093454.htm
> 
> This article speaks of being able to test hip laxity and predicting onset of CHD later in puppies as young as 16 weeks. If the pup above has extensive hip laxity at 8 weeks or has been shown to have congenital defects in the hip joint itself it IS possible to be dysplastic (or highly likely to be dysplastic earlier than other dogs), just not dysplastic in the way we most commonly see it..no?


But 8 weeks is a long way from 16 weeks in the development of a puppy's body. I'd want a second opinion before I did much in the way of making plans. And don't assume that the breeder wouldn't work with you on this. But come prepared with more than one opinion. If your breeder would think that you can't tell much about a 2 month old puppy's hips, s/he would be in good company (along with OFA and PennHip)


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## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

Apologies, maybe i've concluded this in haste.

I will give my reasons: 
He does not run. 
he hops with his 2 back legs. 
He has many difficulties going up and down flights of stairs.
Lameness and lazyness is also part of his attitude.
He has the frog sitting position.
The rhythm of his back leg to his front are lagged.

As a dog lover, i've seen and cared for many dogs. The moment i saw it walk in the park for many minutes, i noticed it right away. One thing that might be a factor is his weight. He is now on a diet.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

He is a baby. If he is having issue with stairs, CARRY HIM. He is a BABY. Sometimes they are tired, this is not LAZINESS. What is the hip status of the parents? Are other littermates having issues? What does your breeder have to say? What does your veterinarian have to say? I have never seen an over weight 8 week old puppy, since they can eat pretty much all they can hold and generally stay at a good weight if they have the chance for adequate exercise.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Actually, I am thrilled you posted the question and Crakcer posted the link. 

I have suspected for many years that osteo arthritis in humans is genetic.. or at least the predisposition is genetic. I am having issues similar to the issues my Mom has and in the same areas. Maybe my life of hard physical labor has not helped.. but what if the real reason is genetic and not related to what I did at all? IOW's IO know people who have little osteo arthritis that have worked very very hard in their lives. 

At 8 weeks old most pupopies do what yours is doing.. and most are not real coordinated yet! Enjoy your puppy and if issues develop later, then face them then. Questa was a stumbling big footed thing when I got her.. and it all just added to her cuteness!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Knowhope said:


> Apologies, maybe i've concluded this in haste.
> 
> I will give my reasons:
> He does not run.
> ...


So you haven't even seen a vet - these things could be the result of a number of different things - some of what might be normal development (and certainly COULD be influenced if he is a fat puppy). He is TWO MONTHS OLD. Can you really expect him to be terribly coordinated? I'd have a good vet evaluate his movement (my holistic vet is wonderful at spotting small problems and putting them right). No sane breeder is going to refund your money based on your own non-professional observations.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Hmmm haste indeed.

Frog position? You mean with the legs out behind him? That doesn't mean anything concrete but in general is a sign that a dog isn't likely suffering from HD as it causes them no discomfort to be in that position. Again not a proper way to judge it but my "good" dogs do it, I've a "fair" dog does it a lot too (and some don't, but since some do it isn't a sign of HD). 

Lots of pups have trouble with stairs.

I don't think you've made the right conclusion because you don't have much evidence.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea I agree with the other posters... based on what you've said, it's way too early to say anything about the hips -- either that he does or doesn't have HD. 


Being overweight definitely increases his risk of developing HD, though, so it's super important for you to stick to that diet.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*He does not run.*
I don't know many two month old babies that run. It's more like they attempt to trot too fast and then fall over

*he hops with his 2 back legs.*
He's a cobby puppy with baby fat. He does not have the coordination, proportions or muscle conditioning to fully extend front and rear to really run.
*
He has many difficulties going up and down flights of stairs.*
He's 2 months old. Please cut the baby a break. Nothing wrong with picking him up and carrying him for awhile. He'll learn eventually.

*Lameness and lazyness is also part of his attitude.*
Baby. Puppy. He's not lazy, he probably is just tired. Just WALKING can be exhausting right now.

*He has the frog sitting position.*
Dogs that are not dysplastic do this. Does't mean anything.

*The rhythm of his back leg to his front are lagged.*
Uncoordinated puppy.

Here's a video of my puppy at 10 weeks old learning how to gait (she's still at the breeder's here)....nooooooot terribly coordinated 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeMHyNiYyeY


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

Agree with what everyone else said. My Chows, who do not have hip issues, lay frog legged frequently. 
And an 8 week old puppy should not be on a diet.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

grab said:


> And an 8 week old puppy should not be on a diet.


If he's fat, he needs to lose weight.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

But how many 8 week olds have you ever met that were actually FAT and weren't just carrying puppy weight? Heck, at 10 weeks Mirada looked like a tub, and at 13 she was streamlined...and she wasn't on a diet.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Most 8 week old pups are not fat, they haven't been weaned long and are still pups. But some are being fed in a way of which is leading them to become obese in the near future. A butterball pup with more than puppy fat. It's hard to say anything without pics, but I've known pup owners who free feed them. Some of which keep forging in an unhealthy manner. Diet doesn't mean feeding them too little, just controlling their intake. Not all pups should be allowed to eat as much as they want.

These pups are roughly the same age. Maybe the OP thinks their dog is fat like they think they have HD. Perhaps these are helpful, they aren't in shape but not "fat" overweight for their age imo.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

sassafras said:


> Yea I agree with the other posters... based on what you've said, it's way too early to say anything about the hips -- either that he does or doesn't have HD.
> 
> 
> Being overweight definitely increases his risk of developing HD, though, so it's super important for you to stick to that diet.


However, when the vet evaluates the puppy's gait, I 'd also ask about dieting. Growing puppies need good nutrition, most puppies tend to be rolly polly, and the Rottie pups I've seen have been little chunks (and that's normal for that breed) While you don't want your dog to be fat, withholding nutrition from growing puppies can cause a world of problems.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I think Spicy just wanted to tease us with these puppies..lol


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Both of my dogs sit frog style and neither one has bad hips.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> But 8 weeks is a long way from 16 weeks in the development of a puppy's body. I'd want a second opinion before I did much in the way of making plans. And don't assume that the breeder wouldn't work with you on this. But come prepared with more than one opinion. If your breeder would think that you can't tell much about a 2 month old puppy's hips, s/he would be in good company (along with OFA and PennHip)


Agreed, proper assessment and discussion with the breeder about what is normal and what is not.



Knowhope said:


> Apologies, maybe i've concluded this in haste.
> 
> I will give my reasons:
> He does not run.
> ...


None of these things in an uncoordinated and infant dog is indicative of hip dysplasia. I had assumed (wrongly apparently) that you had seen a vet and that the puppy was extremely wonky. All of these things are normal. It's like expecting a human toddler not to fall on his bum every time he tries to walk....

And puppies at eight weeks (recently weaned) are supposed to be somewhat pudgy, proper diet (as in proper levels of nutrients and calories) given at appropriate times will grow the pup at the right speed to help develop good muscles and bones.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Here's a video of my puppy at 10 weeks old learning how to gait (she's still at the breeder's here)....nooooooot terribly coordinated
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeMHyNiYyeY


SO cute!!!

I remember when Uallis was a puppy, he frequently faceplanted. He had some HUGE paws to grow into. They were just too big, he'd trip and fall on his face. lol I don't think he could really even run without falling on his face at some point. He'd also fall when trying to go up and down stairs sometimes. He just had no coordination and those dang over-sized feet didn't help him much. :wink: He also had that pudgy puppy belly which made him look like a little brick. lol I remember plenty of times he'd be playing vigorously one second and the next he was passed out cold in a deep sleep. It's just the way puppies are. Now he's almost 4 and still he isn't the most...graceful...of dogs. lol

Even as older puppies, they can have growing pains which they show by limping, etc. I remember rushing Uallis to the vet because I thought something was seriously wrong with him because he was limping. lol


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

A puppy is a puppy. You cannot be convinced just because you are looking for it that it is there. I also agree putting a pup on a diet is a bad idea just proper food and proper amount is good. Have you told the breeder your "suspicions"? I am curious to know what they say. How old are the sire and dam and have their hips been evaluated?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Xeph said:


> But how many 8 week olds have you ever met that were actually FAT and weren't just carrying puppy weight?


More than one. 



Pawzk9 said:


> However, when the vet evaluates the puppy's gait, I 'd also ask about dieting. Growing puppies need good nutrition, most puppies tend to be rolly polly, and the Rottie pups I've seen have been little chunks (and that's normal for that breed) While you don't want your dog to be fat, withholding nutrition from growing puppies can cause a world of problems.


It's actually better IMO for a puppy to grow up on the lean side as opposed to "rolly polly". NOT skinny, but lean. We can't see the OP's puppy (and really you need to get your hands on them to evaluate weight anyway IMO), but _IF_ it really is fat, then yes, it needs to lose weight. Growing up overweight is one of the biggest risks for developing HD in dogs.


ETA: 



Spicy1_VV said:


> Diet doesn't mean feeding them too little, just controlling their intake. Not all pups should be allowed to eat as much as they want.


Yes, that's what I mean by "diet". I'm not advocating starving puppies, people. Nor am I accusing anyone's puppies of being fat or anyone of being unable to assess a puppy's body weight.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

sassafras said:


> More than one.
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually better IMO for a puppy to grow up on the lean side as opposed to "rolly polly". NOT skinny, but lean. We can't see the OP's puppy, but _IF_ it really is fat, then yes, it needs to lose weight. Growing up overweight is one of the biggest risks for developing HD in dogs.


Which is why I suggested s/he discuss it with a vet who CAN see the pup. Though, I think frequently, vets are so used to looking at fat dogs they don't notice. Had Rikki in a few months ago for a senior wellness visit. Vet was a bit concerned that she'd lost four pounds. (down to 36 from 40) "Look at her! I pointed out. She could lose another three and be svelte" He then agreed with me. She wasn't overweight but was a tad plumper than I like my dogs to be.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> Which is why I suggested s/he discuss it with a vet who CAN see the pup.



I haven't disagreed with this at all.




> Had Rikki in a few months ago for a senior wellness visit. Vet was a bit concerned that she'd lost four pounds. (down to 36 from 40) "Look at her! I pointed out. She could lose another three and be svelte" He then agreed with me. She wasn't overweight but was a tad plumper than I like my dogs to be.


Any weight loss in a senior dog is worth paying attention to, IMO. Not necessarily panicking over, but paying attention to and tracking.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

sassafras said:


> I haven't disagreed with this at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Except that I'd been working on getting her a little leaner. I don't blame the vet for asking. He's a good vet. We did routine bloodwork, etc. and she's quite healthy.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> SO cute!!!


Wasn't she a pudge? LOL!



> More than one.


I have to admit that as of yet, I have not seen a puppy that is overweight. I've seen roly poly babies, but given a couple weeks of growth and the fat is quickly replaced by...well, nothing, lol.

Mirada was plump at 10 weeks. At 16 weeks somebody asked me if I had rescued her because she looked emaciated >.< Just saying.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Xeph said:


> I have to admit that as of yet, I have not seen a puppy that is overweight. I've seen roly poly babies, but given a couple weeks of growth and the fat is quickly replaced by...well, nothing, lol.
> 
> Mirada was plump at 10 weeks. At 16 weeks somebody asked me if I had rescued her because she looked emaciated >.< Just saying.


Okay. I'm just saying I've seen a number of fat puppies. *shrug*


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Mirada was plump at 10 weeks. At 16 weeks somebody asked me if I had rescued her because she looked emaciated >.< Just saying.


Uallis was exactly the same way. People thought that I must be starving him because he was so skinny. He was just gaining height so fast.


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## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

My humble apologies, i did not mean to cause any trouble. 

First thing, i will go to a vet and get a diagnostic and such.

I will post a complete reply to all of you whom has bothered yourself with good intentions in my thread.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> It is impossible for an 8 weeks old puppy to have Hip Dysplasia. There is not enough calcification at 8 weeks for arthritic changes to have happened, and 8 week old puppies normally have quite a bit of joint laxity.
> 
> Why do you feel your 8 week old puppy has HD? How long have you had this puppy?


 I wondered this myself but kept reading, in hopes someone more knowledgable than me would speak up. Thanks Red!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Knowhope said:


> My humble apologies, i did not mean to cause any trouble.


You didn't cause any trouble!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Okay. I'm just saying I've seen a number of fat puppies. *shrug*


Wasn't saying you were wrong  Was just saying that I personally haven't seen any real fatties yet. Please note that I'm also talking in the 8-12 week range. I HAVE seen fat puppies 6 months and older x.x Ugh.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Wasn't saying you were wrong  Was just saying that I personally haven't seen any real fatties yet. Please note that I'm also talking in the 8-12 week range. I HAVE seen fat puppies 6 months and older x.x Ugh.


It is truly a sad sight to behold.


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

Has the puppy been wormed? Puppies full of worms might look "fat" also.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Wishing you all the best with your puppy. I will be watching for your update.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree with what everyone has said about the hips. Gracie did all the things you mentioned when she was 4 months old and we ahd her evaluated and she turned out fine. Just puppy. They ten to be uncoordinated and a little gangly. And the stairs probably look a little daunting. 

Please let us know what the vet says.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Knowhope said:


> My humble apologies, i did not mean to cause any trouble.
> 
> First thing, i will go to a vet and get a diagnostic and such.
> 
> I will post a complete reply to all of you whom has bothered yourself with good intentions in my thread.


Oh heck.. you just got people talking. It is what we do here. And you got Spicey to put up puppy pictures! 
Now, if you can, put up a picture of your puppy. You can put a video in too, if you have one. 

This is the Dog Forum. There are some of us here who would argue with a stump...... 

We look forward to your report!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Elana55 said:


> Oh heck.. you just got people talking. It is what we do here.


Heheh, yea. The downfall of the internet is that every discussion can end up sounding like an angry argument. I can only speak for myself, but even if I sound mad, I'm probably not.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Xeph said:


> But how many 8 week olds have you ever met that were actually FAT and weren't just carrying puppy weight? Heck, at 10 weeks Mirada looked like a tub, and at 13 she was streamlined...and she wasn't on a diet.


Well, when I got Nea I thought she was kind of skinny, but when she went in for her first vet check with us, the vet said she was perfect weight and that she tends to see many fat puppies, since many pet owners, I guess, expect a pup to be rounder than they really need to be (me included, apparently).


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah mine had trouble with the porch stairs when she first got here but she mastered them quickly after watching Izze. She is clumsy & has a funny gate where sometimes she will 'skip' mostly with her left rear leg but she lays in her crate with her legs sprawled out behind her... very cute lol. She also is clumsy & falls on her self & is not a very fast runner (yet lol).

She is a rescue dog so I get no restitution if she does have a hio problem like one would from a reputable breeder. But if anything arrises I recive discount cedyl m for Izze already so one more isn't going to make a difference.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> Oh heck.. you just got people talking. It is what we do here. And you got Spicey to put up puppy pictures!
> Now, if you can, put up a picture of your puppy. You can put a video in too, if you have one.
> 
> This is the Dog Forum. *There are some of us here who would argue with a stump*......
> ...


Only if that nasty stump starts more arguments...

Hope all is well witht he OP's puppy. I was overprotective when I got Tag. As he toddled along at 9 weeks old, trying to go fast as his back end (literally) passed his front, I was just sure he had a neurological disorder. (Dog could scale an 8 foot wall if he had a running start...) 
At one point in his puppy-hood he peed on my kitchen floor, the urine was very pale, so I assumed he had kidney problems. 
Sometimes we get so panicky with a new puppy exhibiting something that we don't feel is "normal", and the thought that something could go wrong makes us jump to conclusions.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Tease....oh I didn't mean to.

Those babies are grown now, wish I could post some updated pics.

Here is another, she is 10 weeks and somewhat lean. I never like a fat pup. But she isn't skinny either.


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## PiperPuppy (Nov 28, 2010)

> As he toddled along at 9 weeks old, trying to go fast as his back end (literally) passed his front


LOL! Sometimes Piper gets sideways when she is running. As if her back end is faster than her front end.


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## Stephie (Apr 29, 2010)

My suggestion (if you are planning to neuter) would be to talk to the vet about doing rads while already under anesthesia for the castration procedure (depending on when you plan to do it). Just a thought, because that's what my vet recommended. Granted, Dakota IS dysplastic, unfortunately. The vet could tell by watching him walk, but he's also almost a year old now. A year is still young, but you can tell a little easier than when they are little ones.

Best of luck. I love my dog to death and wouldn't trade him for the world, but I would not wish a puppy with HD on anyone.


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## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

Here is it. Name is Buh!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Hee! He has a tail! Surprising!


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## PiperPuppy (Nov 28, 2010)

O...M...G... So flipping CUTE!!!!!!!!


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## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Hee! He has a tail! Surprising!


Wont dock his tail, i most likely wont spary him also. In my opinion, it's pretty inhumane...

I've realized i've got a puppy from a poor breeder/owner. He was separated from his mother and father too early. He was confined in a small space and hasn't been going out. Since his space was limited, it would explain his clumsiness. He probably is very lazy, because he never had a chance to play around with other human while a puppy.

In all honesty, Buh is the only puppy that i know showing shyness, but i do love him all the same. I will be going to the vet this week, so i will get some update. Anyhow, i've given up my theory of HP with Buh.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

Awww he's sooo cute. I love Rottie puppies. Makes me miss baby Porter.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Too late to dock now. Docking is generally done by the breeder while they are only a couple of days old, hence the surprise. Also, males don't get spayed, they get neutered. Neutering isn't inhumane. IMO there's nothing wrong with not neutering, but if you're going to opt out of doing it, you need to read up to educate yourself, so you don't do it for the right reasons, and not the wrong ones.

I still highly doubt your puppy is lazy. Some puppies just aren't as active as others, but that does not make a dog lazy. And as mentioned previously, puppies are BABIES, and they tire very quickly.


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## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Too late to dock now. Docking is generally done by the breeder while they are only a couple of days old, hence the surprise. Also, males don't get spayed, they get neutered. Neutering isn't inhumane. IMO there's nothing wrong with not neutering, but if you're going to opt out of doing it, you need to read up to educate yourself, so you don't do it for the right reasons, and not the wrong ones.
> 
> I still highly doubt your puppy is lazy. Some puppies just aren't as active as others, but that does not make a dog lazy. And as mentioned previously, puppies are BABIES, and they tire very quickly.


Ah, neutered, another mistake. Well if it's cutting the canal linking the testicles to the penis, i wouldn't mind. A removal of the testicle is another story.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

I think they also do a dog vasectomy


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> A removal of the testicle is another story.


I don't really see why it makes a difference really. Some vets will do a "vasectomy" but I don't know too many


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

Xeph said:


> I don't really see why it makes a difference really. Some vets will do a "vasectomy" but I don't know too many


Some vets can also provide testicular implants to replace the real thing. My vet suggested it when I got Léon castrated. I couldn't help but laugh.

Maybe it,s because I'm a woman, but I don't understand the male attachment to testicles.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Meshkenet said:


> Some vets can also provide testicular implants to replace the real thing. My vet suggested it when I got Léon castrated. I couldn't help but laugh.
> 
> Maybe it,s because I'm a woman, but I don't understand the male attachment to testicles.


I think it's a holdover from when, culturally, if you couldn't procreate you were basically considered a cripple. For instance, the shame of being 'barren' for a woman. For a man, it was the 'shame' of not being able to impregnate someone. I think nowadays it's mostly a subconscious thing, however. It's weird that people project that onto their pets, that's for sure.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Xeph said:


> I don't really see why it makes a difference really. Some vets will do a "vasectomy" but I don't know too many


Wouldn't it be beneficial if you wanted to delay neutering (or not neuter at all) for the hormone/growth development benefits but wanted to prevent "oops" litters?


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

Shell said:


> Wouldn't it be beneficial if you wanted to delay neutering (or not neuter at all) for the hormone/growth development benefits but wanted to prevent "oops" litters?


My vet's opinion on vasectomies for dogs was that it is a much more invasive procedure for the dog, and the benefits are not worth it compared to a later neutering (1 1/2 - 2 yrs old). It doesn't affect urges like roaming, marking and going after females in heat (granted, neutered males often keep the urge to go after females) since the hormonal balance is not affected. Of course, it doesn't affect the risks of testicular cancer either.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Knowhope said:


> Well if it's cutting the canal linking the testicles to the penis, i wouldn't mind. A removal of the testicle is another story.


This is really making me curious. Why is a vasetomy ok, but not a neuter? They both require the vet to cut into your dog and cause a certain amount of pain/discomfort.


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## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

Removing testicles will disrupt the normal production of hormones. (Testostesron and Estrogene and many many more).

Vasectomy will only cut the canal, leaving the testicles intact thus not changing his attitude.

Its more humane.


For fun, id like to ask: would you rather be castrated or have a vasectomy?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Knowhope said:


> Removing testicles will disrupt the normal production of hormones. (Testostesron and Estrogene and many many more).
> 
> Vasectomy will only cut the canal, leaving the testicles intact thus not changing his attitude.
> 
> ...


Of course the thing is, as a rule dogs aren't human men (or is it the other way around - I can never remember?). The only reason I can think of to neuter a male dog is if there is a behavior or attitude you hope to be able to change (doesn't always, of course.)


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Vasectomy will only cut the canal, leaving the testicles intact thus not changing his attitude.


For the record, neutering an animal doesn't change its personality or attitude as it were.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Xeph said:


> For the record, neutering an animal doesn't change its personality or attitude as it were.


But it will change unwanted behaviors like marking which I saw in my dog, Bridger, when I had him neutered at 4 yrs. old.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> But it will change unwanted behaviors like marking


Sometimes. Not always. Though it does happen.


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## Knowhope (Jan 9, 2011)

I understand your position on neutering, but i can't agree that it will not harm my dog in any way.
The fact is, the testicles regular a lot of the hormones. I most likely wont remove them from my dog. 
People castrate dogs for their own benefits.


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

That is a one sided way of looking at it. I could probably put up at least a dozen scientific articles proving benefits in spay and neuter just as I can showing benefits to keeping the animal intact. Saying spay and neuter is solely for the benefit of the owner is extremely biased.


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## Henny00gray (Feb 25, 2021)

Wondering if the pup ended up having it or was fine?


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

We'll never know. The original poster hasn't been here for over ten years.


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