# Pitbull Puppy aggression towards other dogs



## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Hi, I need some help with my pitbull puppy. well he was only about 1 1/2 months when we got him. Hes a pure pit and his name is Iggy ( Iggnacio, Iggy Smalls, Iggito, Igglo, etc. lol) Well my boyfriend has another dog a year old which is a pit n chowchow mix, Blanco. When we brought Iggy, Blanco liked him, he likes other dogs just is overly excited. He was good with Iggy although he would growl if he went to play with a toy he had it wasnt overly agressive tho and the funny thing is Iggy wouldnt back away if he growled like he didnt even know what it meant. Anyway one day my boyfriend who IDIOTICALLY left them together with a BONE. Iggy got bit, obviousllllyyyyy. Cut on his head above his eye not too bad but then it got infected he basically almost died etc etc. Next fight over waterbowl little cut on his nose he was fine with that one. This didnt make Iggy scared or nervous because he has no hard feelings and now plays with Blanco by biting him and hanging on to his neck fat. 
I bring him to my moms alot n my other dog ( shes 7, a mutt ) hatessss Iggy with a passion because Iggy wants to play n bite her n she growls n snaps at him as soon as he comes to her. And Iggy with his head in his butt doesnt care that this dog twice his size is snapping, hes not mad, hes not scared, just doesnt even pay attention. So we keep him away from her. 
So hes fine with Blanco so we figured he'd be fine with other dogs. Well me and my man have been watching my love, Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer seasons, he got all four. So we saw a dog outside the other day, a medium poodle looking thing so I wanted to see if Iggy would be friendly, he barked a bit but I brought him over. The girl was really nice anyway Iggys waging his tail smelling and thennnn..growls and goes to bite him? Oh...ok? The dog was an angel n didn't even get mad. Anyway we ran into her again at the front of the building after the walk. My boyfriend said let meeeee try it, since he thinks he is the second coming of the dog whisperer. Anyway things are fine, smelling, goes to bite the dog again. I dont know what his problem is. The only thing I notice is he walks n seems to do everything better off the leash. He isn't bad on the leash although he pulls a lil bit, so I'm thinking maybe its like a "lemme at him! hold me back, hold me back!" type of feeling when he's on the leash.Saying that, a dominance issue of sorts, with other dogs only never us, or any people. Anyway rite now I'm scared to not have him on the leash around another dog cause I don't want him to bite. Suggestionnnsssss pleasssseee ????????????????


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Find a local excellent behaviorist or trainer to help you with your dog. It doesn't sound as if either you or your boyfriend is knowledgeable or experienced enough to deal with this on your own.

For one thing, Iggy missed a crucial time with his mother and litter mates. For another, although it doesn't generally show up until sometime during adolescence or early adulthood, Pits do often have a tendency to be dog aggressive (so do many terrier breeds, not just the bullies).


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## jbray01 (Dec 26, 2007)

i agree with the previous poster.

puppies shouldn't be taken away from their mothers and littermates until they are AT LEAST 8 weeks old. A puppy taken away misses out on prime socialization time. Most places it is actually illegal to sell puppies that young.

you should never leave a puppy unsupervised, let alone unsupervised with another dog. if you can't watch your puppy, you should crate him.

have you done any training with your puppy yet?


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

I do agree about the socialization aspect but i didnt really know that until now. I was reading a book and it says that they learn socialization through being with their lil bros n sis but i didnt get this dog from a breeder which can also be another factor. They didn't mistreat the dog by any means lots of love but we got it from a lady ( mom of a girl who works with my (b.f) she was feeennnnningg to get rid of all the pups, only had to left when we came by so the others must have been given away reallyyy early. She had all the dogs in a little appt. with both mom and dad locked in seperate rooms, they looked a lil agressive she said they kept breaking the doors to the room they were in so.

well the training is trying to housebreak even tho its not going that well but were making progress, trying to do behavior training such as hes not allowed to play agressively with blanco anymore if he starts biting too much or barking we correct him. Make him sit and wait for his food until he is calm. Working on making him understand sit but if i use a treat he gets so distracted he wont do it, he does it when i ask him without a treat but i wanna reinforce it. 

He is smart he understands...he has his sound that he knows he is wrong ( he makes like his awww fineeee sound...it is a little sad whine he always does it when he is listening tho) this is so funny we were hysterical first time he did this. My boyfriend doesnt want him on the bed so we would say off and put him off thinking he didnt get it. Well one day I was so mad and I gave him a look and just pointed and he did his "aww fineee" as he was giving me a sad face and jumping off the bed. So he gets things not like hes just dumb.

And speaking of me thinking his leash is the devil. I took him out yesterday without it WITH Blanco ( who usually gets him ralled up) on the leash. We saw a dog across the street Blanco got a little excited but Iggy didnt even care n we passed people who Iggy usually goes up to right away or runs ahead to go to them, he was speeding up n I just said no n he stoped. Then we passed the person he wanted them to pet him so he stopped but I said come n he just came I swear his leash is the devil I dont get it.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

It's not too late to socialise your pup now with extensive work. However, you need to find some well-behaved dogs to socialise with. And by "well-behaved", I mean dogs that won't growl at him, snap at him or try to kill him (which seems to have made up a majority of the dog-dog exposure he's had in his life thus far). Let me assure you that the episodes with Blanco and your mother's dog HAVE left an impact on Iggy. 

I also think you need to enlist the help of a professional on this issue. This doesn't include watching seasons of Cesar Milan. The show states over and over on it to refrain from practising the methods demonstrated on it -- please heed that advice! Cesar's methods are for professionals and require expert timing and interpretation of canine body language. Find a behaviourist who will help you undo the aggressive tendencies that Iggy seems to have developed.

Lastly, I recommend you do some reading on leash-reactivity in dogs. It will help explain why Iggy seems to react to other dogs only while on leash.
All the best. Do remember that you owe it to Iggy and the rest of the pit bull population in your area to raise your pup as a well-behaved canine citizen. Pit bulls suffer from a bad and very fragile reputation; it only takes one aggressive pit to taint the image of all the pit bulls in your town.


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

If I were you I would not let him go up to any dogs except your own till he get the necessary training. I think another idea would be signing up for obedience classes so he can be around other dogs in a controlled environment.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

I wouldn't have him off leash until he is trained including a 100% recall. There are many threads on here about dogs getting attacked/attacking other dogs, dogs getting lost, and dogs getting hit by cars, due to being off leash. He might be fine sometimes, but it only takes one time to have your dog hit by a car or attacked.

There are 2 threads now, on the first or second page about a dog hit/killed by a car due to being off leash, and another that resulted in 2 dogs being killed due to one dog attacking and killeing the other and the owner putting him down.


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

Socailization, socailization, socaliziation.

Also watch that the leash is not tight when he is greeting other dogs. Give him slack. The tight leash could be making him nervous or feeling like he has no escape. If you can, drop the leash for those few seconds it takes him to greet. Get him out meeting as many dogs as possible everyday!


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## Kboukes (Feb 1, 2009)

skelaki said:


> Find a local excellent behaviorist or trainer to help you with your dog. It doesn't sound as if either you or your boyfriend is knowledgeable or experienced enough to deal with this on your own.
> 
> For one thing, Iggy missed a crucial time with his mother and litter mates. For another, although it doesn't generally show up until sometime during adolescence or early adulthood, Pits do often have a tendency to be dog aggressive (so do many terrier breeds, not just the bullies).


totally agree.

You need to kurb this agression straight away and estabilsh yourself as an alpha to be reckoned with.

Iggy probaby has no clue that this behaviour is unacceptable other than you yelling at him which tends to excite dogs.

Honestly your best bet is the local obedience school with maybe some other dogs/pups. Worst case scenario is that he is around more puppies, yeah.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Ok...*breathe Zim*....


Pit Bull Ownership Done Right


You have Pit Bulls. In today's political climate regarding this breed that places an ENORMOUS responsibility on your shoulders.

Why?

You screw up ONE TIME and EVERY pit bull owner will suffer for it...sooner or later. 

There are many many people out there who would like nothing better than to take your dogs and put them down whether you like it or not. Their ability to actually make this a reality depends on *you*.

you need to get this situation under control ASAP.

Im going to private message you with some info.


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## Kboukes (Feb 1, 2009)

its a shame that people hold the dogs responsible. There is no such thing as a bad dog just a bad owner.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Kboukes said:


> its a shame that people hold the dogs responsible. There is no such thing as a bad dog just a bad owner.


Yep. But we won't get into that here.


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## Kboukes (Feb 1, 2009)

lol hot topic hey?

i am a REAL newbie!! hehe.

Consider discussion kurbed.


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

Hows it going with the pup? 

Have you got him out more to socialize? (dog parks, vet office etc) any place you can drop his leash to let him meet and greet is best. Start before he gets to old........!!


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

So Iggy is doing so wonderful!!! We brought him to the dog park and he is the poster child for dog parks now, he is friendly and not aggressive at all.We've been bringing him as much as possible. He is still having potty issues though =(
I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo happppppppppppppppppppppppppppyyyyyyy (whoever commented for me to stop adddddddddiinnnggggg lettterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssssssss. This is for uuuuuuuuuuuuu. Muahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! kisssssssssssseeeessssssssssssssssssss)

Anyways thanks for the help from the FEW people ( rosemary, jend, dogsareme...) and looks like some of the others are in desperate NEED of some training of their own..obidience school that!! lol =p


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Dog parks are NO NO's for Pit Bulls, PLEASE do not take your dog back to the dog park. Your dog may never start a fight, but if a fight breaks out your pop WILL fight to the end.

I normally don't link other forums from other forums, but read this. It's called "dog park reality check":
http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=50274


Dog parks are where every rude and untrained dog goes. Your better off finding a small group of doggie pals for your dog to play with. Keep him away from Dog parks though. It's not uncommon for 2 random dogs to get into a fight, a Pit Bull to jump in and try to break it up then the Pit Bull is blamed for the attack and is put down because of it.

Dogs do not NEED to be around other dogs to be happy. My Nubs is an only dog with a random play date once in a blue moon. He is happy like that as am I. There is so much less stress then worrying about DA showing up. This breed of dog has been bred for 100's of years to be DA, and can become DA at any time of their life.

You need to start researching this breed closely and learning everything you can so you can be a good owner. If your dog does something bad, like ends up in a fight with another dog, *it effects EVERY PIT BULL IN THE WORLD*. Not city, not state, but THE WORLD. No joke. A Pit Bull attack in Australia is felt through out the US. A dog attack in the US is felt across the UK. And so forth.

Websites all Pit Bull owners should read:
http://www.apbt.info/tiki-index.php
http://www.pitbull411.com/history.html
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Kim201 said:


> So Iggy is doing so wonderful!!! We brought him to the dog park and he is the poster child for dog parks now, he is friendly and not aggressive at all.We've been bringing him as much as possible. He is still having potty issues though =(
> I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo happppppppppppppppppppppppppppyyyyyyy (whoever commented for me to stop adddddddddiinnnggggg lettterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssssssss. This is for uuuuuuuuuuuuu. Muahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! kisssssssssssseeeessssssssssssssssssss)
> 
> Anyways thanks for the help from the FEW people ( rosemary, jend, dogsareme...) and looks like some of the others are in desperate NEED of some training of their own..obidience school that!! lol =p


Seriously. Grow up a little bitttttttttttttttttttttt. 
Your dog does not need to be going to the dog park. Darkmoon and Zim know what they are talking about when it comes to the pitties. You should listen.


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## Rusbell (Apr 5, 2009)

When owning a pitbull you have to understand that this is what they were bred for. They were bred to fight other dogs. Alot of times your dog can be completely fine with other dogs, and then around the age of 2 become DA. With this breed socialization is a must but if your dog doesn't like other pups then there's nothing you can do about it. You can't leave them alone with other dogs. Playtime's should always be supervised, then you won't end up with a bitten pup. This is not the kind of dog that you can train the DA out of. Even if you think you have, always have control of the situation.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

been busy as crap haven't had a chance to pm you nessecary info but honestly hun that attitude is going to get you nowhere you want to be.

ok so your dog did ok....this time...so what?

I really do understand the desire to take your dog out and do doggie socials and such but to be bluntly honest..it isn't worth the risk.

the risk is being the cause of something like this:

www.denverkillsdogs.com


do you know what bsl is? 

www.stopbsl.com


stay away from dog parks and educate yourself on the breed. if you want to keep your dogs it is of VITAL importance that you do so.

www.workingpitbull.com
www.riospitbull.com
www.apbtconformation.com


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

That is insane. I refuse to believe that just because my dog is a pitbull its a killing machine. I obviously supervise my dog in the dog park and also he didn't do okay this time he's done wonderful many times.There are many other pitbulls in the dog part and they aren't ripping anyone apart either. I have read up on many pitbull attacks and those were an obvious accident waiting to happen.Also the stupidest thing I ever heard is to NOT socialize the dog and keep him in the house...due to the risk. Not at the dog park..locked away? Ya thatll make him a sweetipie.I live in newark,nj the pitbull is the damn official dog of this place noone is ready to blame my dog cause it's a pit because they almost certainly have a pit themselves...iggy is one of the sweetest.There's about 6 pits on my block alone Including a pit who's owner is my bf's friend and she will be ready to KILL whatever dog on site and she only goes on walks look how good that did her.He said he's broken mugs over her head and she hasn't let go. Also I am very anxious for good advice,presented in a proper way.No need to act like I have no experience,I've had a dog by my side my whole life. The thing I most hate are people who talk down to others.Nothing wrong with giving excellent advice in a nice way.As opposed to excellent advice in a condesending way. Come on I'm sure ur all old enough to know that by now.Save the attitude. Back to topic..Iggy is coming along well, i go out of my way to introduce him to new dogs with plenty of caution and supervision.He absolutely loves people and he is coming along very well. I am careful and confident not doubtful or scared I hope for the best not expect the worst but everyone has their own view.

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well I read your 1st reply and later when Zim/Darkmoon got on I figured you were in good hands. I don't understand why you posted in 1st place as it appears you were set in your own program and were really not interested in much else. I love it when people say they have had dogs all their lives. If you were 40 years old and had one dog a year, that's 40 dogs. 

With 40 dogs experience how is it that Iggy almost died and then got worked over by relative's dog later. I will fight for your right to take Iggy to any dog park you want,(good luck Iggy) With all the years I have trained and since I am still learning and you are already past the learning stages, I know that all I can offer you is luck for Iggy.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Well I'm not sure where you got the idea that anyone was calling Pit Bulls (with a space) killing machines......I find this forum to be very bully friendly and I contribute that to the fact that its full of very responsible and savvy bully owners

I agree with DM.....you should join PBF....http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=50274 I have met some of the most knowledgeable pit bull people on that site......you could really benefit from joining if you haven't all ready.

The thing about dog parks is that as you say Iggy could be the most wonderful loving baby in the whole wide world but if another dog attacked him or pushed him into a fight...Iggy is going to finish that fight and that is all the media needs.......they are not going to flash "lab mix starts fight with pit bull at the dog park" ...it will read "Pit bull viciously mauls family pet at the dog park".......and then you have given the pro BSL fight one more piece of amo to use to take away our dogs

No one is saying don't socialize you dog...that is just silly.....but it can be done at other places besides a dog park......obedience classes, small dog meet ups, agility meets..etc


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Kim201 said:


> That is insane. I refuse to believe that just because my dog is a pitbull its a killing machine. I obviously supervise my dog in the dog park and also he didn't do okay this time he's done wonderful many times.There are many other pitbulls in the dog part and they aren't ripping anyone apart either. I have read up on many pitbull attacks and those were an obvious accident waiting to happen.Also the stupidest thing I ever heard is to NOT socialize the dog and keep him in the house...due to the risk. Not at the dog park..locked away? Ya thatll make him a sweetipie.I live in newark,nj the pitbull is the damn official dog of this place noone is ready to blame my dog cause it's a pit because they almost certainly have a pit themselves...iggy is one of the sweetest.There's about 6 pits on my block alone Including a pit who's owner is my bf's friend and she will be ready to KILL whatever dog on site and she only goes on walks look how good that did her.He said he's broken mugs over her head and she hasn't let go. Also I am very anxious for good advice,presented in a proper way.No need to act like I have no experience,I've had a dog by my side my whole life. The thing I most hate are people who talk down to others.Nothing wrong with giving excellent advice in a nice way.As opposed to excellent advice in a condesending way. Come on I'm sure ur all old enough to know that by now.Save the attitude. Back to topic..Iggy is coming along well, i go out of my way to introduce him to new dogs with plenty of caution and supervision.He absolutely loves people and he is coming along very well. I am careful and confident not doubtful or scared I hope for the best not expect the worst but everyone has their own view.
> 
> Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.


no I never said iggy is a killing machine because he is a pit bull...neither is my pit bull or any of the numerous pit bulls I've worked with in rescue, or any other pit bull for that matter.

as a pit bull fancier, rescuer, historian and potentially future breeder:
but they are fighting dogs. I.e. fighting machines. their bodies were designed through selective breeding to have the characteristics nessecary to be the ultimate FIGHTING dog. high pain tolerance, gameness, physical strength, speed

not only that..pit bulls were bred to be silent fighters. this means there is a chance you will have zero warning that iggy Is about to get into a scrap. they were bred NOT to have threat display.

Now as trainer..

ALL dogs have thresholds..I don't care how many times you take your dog out to socialize they still have a point where they will be li "enough is enough" when dealing with other dogs. just like people, dogs get into disagreements.

this can and almost certainly will happen with iggy. it happens with almost every dog. but what if the dog iggy gets into a disagreement with is smaller than he is..in front of a big crowd of people..little dog gets hurt, owner has numerous witnesses that say YOUR dog is the one who did it.

boom...lawsuit. which as soon as someone tips the press there has been yet another pit bull attack it will be on the news riling people up.


and no one is saying you can't socialize iggy. what we are saying is that dog parks are a bad way to do it. owners of greyhounds avoid dog parks as well because greys are prone to chasing and snapping on little dogs...pit bulls aren't the only breed that really isn't dog park material.

it is not a slam against you. no one is trying to be insulting. we are dead serious and practically begging you to find a dog playgroup...check www.meetup.com there is usually a pit play group available to join and if not then start one. playgroups are so much better because you have so much more control than at a dogpark

id also suggest purchasing a breakstick you can find them and details about them here : www.pbrc.net


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Cesar Millan and dog parks are going to get you and your Pit Bull absolutely nowhere.

You need to set your dog up for success. Bringing a Pit Bull puppy into a dog park when you are now speculating that he could be, possibly, becoming reactive/aggressive is not setting your dog up for success. It's setting your dog up for the headlines.

Part of the problem is that people think it's an injustice to Pit Bulls - the dog-social ones especially - to recommend that their owners don't bring them to the dog park. But, to that I say - you chose to own this breed of dog. All breeds come with a history, and with this history, dog parks are not exactly the best option. With Pit Bulls being banned all across the country and all across the world, owners can take NO chances. If you (general you) wanted a dog that you didn't have to worry about genetic dog aggression issues with, you shouldn't have chosen a bully. Plain and simple. Pit Bulls and other bully breeds come with special considerations to ensure that things like BSL don't keep spreading. Take a look at this: http://www.badrap.org/rescue/owning.cfm

You have gotten great advice in this thread. For your dog's sake, I hope you take it.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

I understand Iggy is a pit bull and he needs extra caution, but the way you all sound is that something will most certainly happen and I refuse to believe that. Iggy acted funny on a leash, when he was a 2month baby, probably scared. 

Lets me tell u how he acts in the park. In the dog park he acts so sweet and shy ( not scared) shy, meaning he won't go up to another dog, but if a dog comes smells him he will smell back and if they decide to play he happily joins in ( and not in a rough way). Besides the fact of him standing 3 feet from me and checking up to see if I am there he doesn't do to much playing, not trouble causing, and Blanco ( his brother) has been in fights there ( apparently he HATES ANY Bulldog) and Iggy hasn't jumped in so I don't see why he would jump in a fight. Also Blanco is a chow/ pit mix and he is not a kill fighter at all. He barely tries to bite. He's been in a fight with a HUGE doberman who pinned him to the ground ( it wasn't his fault) and he barely bit the dog who was trying to hurt him badly. Also the bulldog at the park this one dog tried to hump him n basically take leadership role over him so Blanco can't have that because he def thinks he's the boss so Blanco started fighting, with much provoking,but he only got on top of him and mouthed him. 

I don't want to be worried if Iggy gets loose that he will go attack another dog. I want him to be used to other dogs. Saying that every dog is not a pit so I want him seeing other dogs and not just pits. (Also, back to my moms dog, it was completely HER FAULT she growls at Iggy for no reason and my mom said she can't go to the dog park because she is too scared of the dogs. She needs a dog who totally submits to her or she hates it.)

Iggy almost died because he was a small, small baby without his shots who my boyfriend without me having* ANY *knowledge of this, left the dogs with a bone, together. Blanco was trying to show Iggy who was boss and would grown if he came near a toy so forget about food. I would have murdered my b/f if i KNEW he did that, but I did not. Blanco gave him a very small cut, not deep, barely bleeding which he was fine with for a full day. Then, the next day he got deathly sick. Therefore maybe you should read before speaking! Gracias! I, as I said, a dog owner all my life, with an extremely knowledgeable mother on the dog subject, would _know_ not to do that.

Zim, let me apologize, I know you and others are coming on strong because u are worried, but I just don't like that. I and most everyone in the world take advice better when told in a, for lack of a better word, nicer way. I think it is a really good idea about the bully stick and I will def get that because it can help with Blanco too if something ever comes up with him. I looked up a pit bull meet in Irvington which sounds nice, but honestly the way u all are making pit bulls sound I don't want Iggy to be there because it seems like he will get attacked. Also like I said I don't want him to only be around pit bulls. I want him to socialize with other dogs too, your pits never played with a different breed?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Kim201 said:


> I understand Iggy is a pit bull and he needs extra caution, but the way you all sound is that something will most certainly happen and I refuse to believe that. Iggy acted funny on a leash, when he was a 2month baby, probably scared.
> 
> Lets me tell u how he acts in the park. In the dog park he acts so sweet and shy ( not scared) shy, meaning he won't go up to another dog, but if a dog comes smells him he will smell back and if they decide to play he happily joins in ( and not in a rough way). Besides the fact of him standing 3 feet from me and checking up to see if I am there he doesn't do to much playing, not trouble causing, and Blanco ( his brother) has been in fights there ( apparently he HATES ANY Bulldog) and Iggy hasn't jumped in so I don't see why he would jump in a fight. Also Blanco is a chow/ pit mix and he is not a kill fighter at all. He barely tries to bite. He's been in a fight with a HUGE doberman who pinned him to the ground ( it wasn't his fault) and he barely bit the dog who was trying to hurt him badly. Also the bulldog at the park this one dog tried to hump him n basically take leadership role over him so Blanco can't have that because he def thinks he's the boss so Blanco started fighting, with much provoking,but he only got on top of him and mouthed him.
> 
> ...


my dog? my dog is likely one who has genetic aggression . she doesn't bark, snarl, or give any warning...she just attacks. and if I am not right there to control it for her, she can't control it all. when I have her under control, at times she will whine like she is in pain because she cannot carry out her intinct to attack other dogs. 

back in the old days they called it "having a hot pit bull". and it still happens. my dog is living proof. 

she has doggie friends of several breeds. this is because I have worked on maintaining her interactions with other dogs as positive experiences and done extensive training with her in impulse control and focus. but even when she plays with her buddies sometimes she gets that look that I know now is a precursor to an aggressive fit and I have to stop the play and let her cool off. 

I wouldn't be able to do that at a dog park. there are too many uncontrollable variables. 

the reason I suggest playing with similar breeds is that

a. owners of pit bulls are more likely to be willing to work with you in the event of an altercation

and

b. keeping sizes matched lessens the possibility of serious injury should an altercation occur. a pit squared off against another pit or a rottie or mastiff is less likely to cause as much damage as a pit squared off against a jrt or similarly sized breed. 

feel free to ask questions.

and no one here was trying to be rude. forums are weird like that. its hard to gauge inflection when going off written word alone. believe me when I say I have presented myself as I have because I love your dog. your dog and my dog are cousins...which in my mind makes us extended family.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Another thing I have to add is Iggy is insanely tiny! Thats another reason I'm less "afraid" with him, we met a Bluenose the other day who was 4 months and twice the size of Iggy, he was HUGE compared, and younger. I don't know why he's so tiny, a lot of people don't think he looks like a pit bull, but we saw his mom and dad who were both very short, but very stocky and he's not built like that at all he is very thin. I just measured him rite now and he is 20 inches from his nose to butt ( not including tail) and 11 inches from his back to the floor. He is 22 lbs also. His head is up to my knee and I'm 5'5. He looks like a tiny baby still so that's also why I don't want him to be with these big pit bulls the size does not at all match up for him.

Also Iggy has given warning if he's getting mad he gives the ugliest little gremlin growl ever and a little lip curl action. He has an ugly little voice its squeaky.. the neighbors thought we had a baby before they knew.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

there are other groups that meet that allow pits..

the thing about a playgroup that is especially cool when compared to a dog park is that just anyone can go to the dog park, while a play group has say so over what dogs can join..you get to pick and choose your dog's playmates there by avoiding any possibility than a bad tempered aggressive dog with an irresponsible owner is going to show up and let thei dog harrass everyone else's dogs.
the other cool thing is size. a controlled amount of dogs is easier managed than numbers that fluctuate.

being a responsible pit owner is about maintaining control of your dog's environment and preventing the possibility of mistake. 

I go through it every single day. it can be really tough what with people looking at you like your a criminal because you own a pit. you just have to learn to be better than that and make your dog an ambassador...one who flys in the face of every stereotype out there.

keep coming. I come here because I want to help new owners like you. I will offer any support I can and so will the owners of pits here.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Well luckily just about everyone over here has a pit, there are so many I guess that brings about more of an understanding. I'm going to try my best with Iggy, but I guess there will just be some dogs I can't bring him around. Iggy seems to be very easy going with dogs, but I can see there are times where he gets bothered. Thankfully he is so small where I can physically control him easily. 

I want u all to know I am a good dog owner, not irresponsible. I completely watch Iggy everywhere I go. If he meets a new dog I have my eye right on him the whole time, watching for any strange movement or expression. I consider myself pretty knowing of these symbols because when Blanco had the fight with the doberman i KNEW they were going to fight. The doberman was doing that complete freeze position and it was weird. It sucks that my b/f just thinks I am being paranoid sometimes and tells me to relax. I know if Blanco or the other dog would have been hurt I would have felt guilty so next time I will go with all of my instincts. I want to keep Iggy, Blanco, and other dogs as safe as possible.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Kim201 said:


> Well luckily just about everyone over here has a pit, there are so many I guess that brings about more of an understanding. I'm going to try my best with Iggy, but I guess there will just be some dogs I can't bring him around. Iggy seems to be very easy going with dogs, but I can see there are times where he gets bothered. Thankfully he is so small where I can physically control him easily.
> 
> I want u all to know I am a good dog owner, not irresponsible. I completely watch Iggy everywhere I go. If he meets a new dog I have my eye right on him the whole time, watching for any strange movement or expression. I consider myself pretty knowing of these symbols because when Blanco had the fight with the doberman i KNEW they were going to fight. The doberman was doing that complete freeze position and it was weird. It sucks that my b/f just thinks I am being paranoid sometimes and tells me to relax. I know if Blanco or the other dog would have been hurt I would have felt guilty so next time I will go with all of my instincts. I want to keep Iggy, Blanco, and other dogs as safe as possible.




I don't doubt that you are responsible. not at all. but you can be the most responsible owner out there and still slip up. its human nature.

so what you do is prepare thoroughly for any eventuality. by continually seeking to expand your base of knowledge.

there are many ways to do this. if you would like me to I can prepare you a list of awesome sites that will give you good info..plus there is me, darkmoon, pugmom, several others and especially a member here named Spicy who are totally willing to help with pit specific stuff plus everyone else.

I think you will do fine if you keep learning. 

now...I believe I deserve some Iggy pictures after all that typing


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Hey guys. I haven't read all the posts here, but just wanted to post my experiences here. I have two boxer/lab/pit mixes (litter mates). Small percentage of pit most likely. I took Mac'n'Roe to the dog park throughout their puppyhood, and they had a great time and had a lot of fun. They were very friendly with all the dogs. At some point (around 8 months) I saw a change in their behavior around 8 or 9 months. They are NOT AGRESSIVE dogs and are very dog friendly in a controlled environment, but they are not good candidates for the dog park. Mainly due to their reactivity to other dogs (if a fight breaks out) or if another dog doesn't have good social skills (like jumping in their face). 

I think the concern is the possibility for something to happen, and being a pit bull...the blame ALWAYS points in our direction, whether or not it should. I'm glad you are continuing the conversation...as zim, pugmom, darkmoon and others here are very pit friendly and very knowledgeable. 

Being able to go to the dog park doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the dog is obedient. A good recall can help, but I consider my dogs to be well behaved AND obedient...but not a dog park dog. I don't think going to an obedience class will change that...its just the way it is.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Iggy at about 2 months









Baby Blanco









Iggy hugging ( or humping =)) Blanco









Yep he sleeps with his tongue out


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

playing









Iggnacio


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Kim,
The issue is, when you choose ANY breed of dog, you have to understand where the breed came from. Is it a hunting, sporting, herding breed? Was it built for endurance running or companionship? This tells you what you can expect from that breed.

With Pit Bulls, you have to understand their history. They were bred first for Bull Baiting but when that became illegal they were bred for dog fighting. Now there are 2 sides to pit bulls, "Hots" like Zim's Bolo who is dog aggressive BUT can live with another dog if time is taken (Most "hot" dogs can't live with other dogs though), or "Cold" like my Nubs is, which can get along with 90% of dogs out there.

"Hots" are more predictable. You just know, if there is a dog around you are in for some "fun"

"Colds" can have no issues for their whole life, or every once in a while you'll get one dog that your dog doesn't like and you'll have a spat.

The thing about Pit Bulls, even one that is a "cold" if they get into a scrap, It's a fight to the end. You have to prepared to step in and stop it (that's why breaksticks are needed). Pit Bulls are bred for a fight. Just like Rat Terriers go after small game, Beagles are always searching the ground with their nose, and Huskies are always willing to run. You can't take what the breed is meant to do out of it because "you don't want to deal with it". That is a fact of life, and you must choose to deal with it, otherwise you will be screwed when something happens and Iggy is put to sleep.

Remember a LOT of Pit Bulls are GREAT with other dogs until they start to mature around 18 to 24months. Most but not all will show signs by that time, and you need to know what to do when it happens. 

Here is a story for you about my non-DA Pit Bull Nubs....

Yesterday I was taking him for his normal 5 mile walk, and as we were about 4 houses away from the house, a neighbors DA Pit Bull was in her yard. No biggie, he's usually teetered. NOT THIS TIME.

Here I am, 120lbs, with a 62lb Pit Bull with a 50lb Pit Bull rushing me. My Nubs was ready, I have never seen him hackle up in my life, but you could tell he was ready and willing to fight. Luckily I was able to get the dogs attention for 1 microsecond (because if you are lucky that is all you have to snap the dog out of it's fighting "zone") and the dog is terrified of humans so with me rushing him, he backed off long enough for his owner to grab him. I LUCKED out so much and I know it. I would have had a badly injured dog if it wasn't for luck and knowing as much about the breed as I do.

You keep talking about how little he is, it doesn't matter. Pit Bulls range from 30lbs to 60lbs. He's right where he should be. You dog *could* be just as big of a problem as the 50lb dog that charged me. 

Read everything we have told you and read every one of the websites listed. We aren't trying to upset you, we are trying to help you and save you from the heartache that we've seen and some of us know.

I'll be honest with you, up to a year ago, I never would have owned a Pit Bull. In fact, When I brought home Nubs, I had no CLUE about the breed. I knew they were often DA and never should be human aggressive. Having just put my HA and DA dog down, I knew I could handle the DA part no issues, it was the HA part I worried about. Beyond that I had no clue. In the first 3 months of owning Nubs, I read everything I could to understand the breed. I am still learning daily. Zim puts me in my place all the time  I've now had Nubs for a year and he is the best dog I know. but without what I've read, I know I would have screwed up majorly a few times. 

Good luck and remember "Never trust a Pit Bull not to fight" That is the rule we all live by.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Thank u, u are giving a lot of great advice and I understand once Iggy is in a fight he may not stop . I only keep mentioning how tiny he is because I can't see him actually injuring another dog, maybe a small dog, but not reg size and def not any pit I have ever seen.I'm telling u, if u saw that 4month old and Iggy u would be baffled. That thing was brawlik. I can pick Igg up by one hand at his neck easily. I think he would die if he got in a fight with a normal size pit bull, but I guess he could suprise me, he does think he's tough.

In the event he does get in a fight, what should I do?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

at close to six years old my Bolo weighs forty five pounds.

which is about the right size for a pit bull, give or take...and she will rough house with a ninety pound Rottie, roll him on his back and keep him there...just playing. 

size is a consideration but not the only determining factor. I prefer bolo..at forty five pounds to play with dogs starting at ninety to one hundred pounds and up. because she is the way she is and has a lot of "scrap" in her.

its about learning your dog. every tic, expression and twitch.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

lol I know pit bulls can be tiny, but I don't think u ladies understand he is *small*. If he got in a fight with any dog besides a small jack russel or somethin, he would lose. If it was a serious fight or a fight with a pit bull I think he would die, literally , death. This is def not his full growth I know, but he is not even thick or muscular, not in the slightest.

I just have to be careful more with him right now I'm saying. Like I am more worried about him getting hurt then hurting another dog right now, he might start, but they will finish. 

What age did ur dogs grow at by the way? He seems to be taking forever! He is still in fully baby puppy body. People think he's another breed because he is so small ( along with his long crooked nose and his floppy ears hehe). He was one of the runts by the way, completely. When we went to get him it was his itty bitty bitty sister and him itty bitty ( a lil bigger lol). The other puppies looked sooo much bigger. I sometimes hear the dogs grow over night type of thing, but I don't know. I hope his development is okay thats all =).


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -- Mark Twain


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

pamperedpups said:


> "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -- Mark Twain


lol.....you beat me too it PP.......and question for the OP....How old is iggy now?......you say he is small but it looks like from the pictures that he is fairly young


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

he's 5 months, he is young, but I keep seeing these dogs ( pits) who are way bigger and younger than him.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

How old is Iggy?

Your dog is going to go through a lot of changes in the next few months, and you need to be prepared. Like I said in my other post, I saw major differences in my two between 5 months and 8 months old. Owning a pit bull is a big responsibility. It would be in your best interest to do the research NOW, and be prepared by the time your puppy grows into a more mature dog. His behavior with other dogs (ESPECIALLY AT THE DOG PARK) could possibly change (and most likely will) between the ages of 10 months to 2 years. Not saying that the change will be negative, just different. BE PREPARED.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

at 5 months he is still a baby.....he has lots of growing to do

how much does Iggy weigh now?....besides the DP what kind of activities are you doing with him.......have you started obedience classes?.....they are a great way to acclimate you puppy to being around other dogs..in a controlled setting


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## Rusbell (Apr 5, 2009)

Here's my baby apbt at 4 and a half months, 26lbs



















When she was younger she really did "grow over night", i'd wake up and it looked like her legs had grown a few inches. My pup seems like she'll be a good 45lbs grown. Iggy does look a little small but he could be mixed with something smaller or maybe he hasn't had his growth spurts yet! Either way hes a very cute boy


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

We usually just take him to the park, go in this big field part and let them run ( this is usually at night when no ones there as Nelson gets out of work at 8 pm yuck ( he works in the hospital( clara maass, dunno if anyones from jersey? lol ) He barely gets exercise though because he doesn't run even 5 feet from us ( he has his weird boundry, which is better than him running off I guess.) So we play with the cat tails things..not exactly cat tails, the ones with a more puffy plant top..with them lol they love them, we break one off and make them chase it in a circle. Iggy doesn't like fetch too much, he gets tired of it, usually I just run back and forth with him and jump and stuff lol. We also go on long walks and dog park. Obidence classes is a good idea and I'm going to try the site zim suggested, meetup.com, found a meet this saturday, in the park we always go to ( further down somewhere though, it's a huge park). 

Rusbell she's a cutie ( looks like Iggy's sister, Sunset),she's way bigger than him. Ya I just don't think he had his spurt yet, and I don't know if he's mixed, but the parents or any other puppys def didn't look mixed at all, but who knows if their great grannys a chihuahua lol, it could have something to do with him being a runt too.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

If he likes chasing the cattails...you should make him a flirt pole ..........my guys go crazy for it ...it is burns up that excess energy !!


a basic obedience class would be really fun for you guys I think...good for bonding....also you may want to look into getting Iggy CGC certified....I will be doing this with my girl Isis with in the next month or two....I think it would be great if more bully people did this ...puts our pups in a more positive light


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

pugmom said:


> If he likes chasing the cattails...you should make him a flirt pole ..........my guys go crazy for it ...it is burns up that excess energy !!
> 
> 
> a basic obedience class would be really fun for you guys I think...good for bonding....also you may want to look into getting Iggy CGC certified....I will be doing this with my girl Isis with in the next month or two....I think it would be great if more bully people did this ...puts our pups in a more positive light


Ya we gotta make 2 though, cause Blanco loves it more than Iggy! I'm also going to get that break stick. One time I was playing with Iggy and he had a toy and I wanted to do a experiment. So I did tug o war and saw if he would lock onto the toy ( I know they say they have no locking mechanism or anything though) well he soooo did, I was picking him up by the toy and swinging him around without him letting go ( don't worry I don't play with him like that ever, I heard tug o war is bad to play with dogs). I told him off and he eventually got off, but it took a few times so def need that stick just in case.

Do u know where can I look to find a good class?


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

I just have one for all 3 of mine....I just play with them separately...

Tug of war is not bad for dogs.....I just would be careful about swing them around because it can hurt their teeth and necks...and if they land wrong you could end up with leg or back problems....but its not just pits that do the whole hanging on thing....my Boston will do it too if I let him....its less about bite strength and more about drive and tenacity.

As far as break sticks go it is good to have one handy for breaking up a fight (if needed)....but that is the only time it should be used.....for taking things out of you pups mouth...you need a good "drop it" or "give" command


I would just Google puppy classes in your area....or basic obedience training in what ever town/city you live in...there should be a fair amount


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

pugmom said:


> I just have one for all 3 of mine....I just play with them separately...
> 
> Tug of war is not bad for dogs.....I just would be careful about swing them around because it can hurt their teeth and necks...and if they land wrong you could end up with leg or back problems....but its not just pits that do the whole hanging on thing....my Boston will do it too if I let him....its less about bite strength and more about drive and tenacity.
> 
> ...


Ya Nelson always did it with Blanco, but we read something about not using the dogs strength against urs idk. I don't like playing tug o war anyway, Blanco is too strong for me and Iggy gets too excited when u do it, he gets this determination growl when he's too excited about something that I just don't like. Oh ya I just wanted to see if he was that kinda dog though just a lil test =), wanted to see if he was prone to locking onto something, because Blanco and my moms dog Nelly don't really do it.

Oh yeah don't worry I would only use it for a fight, but since he has the tendency to lock onto something I will def get it. Ya I'm gonna add drop it to his list of commands I just started to teach.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

otug of war is awesome for dogs.

tug of war makes for an awesome non food reward for good behavior. 

they train police detection dogs dogs using tug toys. I always have a tug toy in my back pocket to give Bolo a good game when she has been a good girl.

flirt poles are great and you might also look into making your guys the ultimate tug toy...a springpole. 
www.pitbulllovers.com has great info on springpoles.

breaksticks as pugmom said are only for breaking up fights. 

when your dog plays with other dogs..keep your eye on him. you want to see role reversal kind of play, where one dog acts like the aggressor/chaser and then they switch. if one dog starts getting pushy or won't trade out roles, stop the play. do a short training session and let them chill for a second and then you let them play again.

iggy looks a lot like my old dog Vivi. very very cute.

the red pit is a cutie t


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

ooohhh....Yeah springpole!!....if you have a "heavy duty" tugger then a springpole will definitely save your back/shoulders


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Ya it's my back that I'm worried about not his lol, I'm young and when I play with Blanco I die.I guess I should play with Iggy cause it's one of the few things he loves, but what about that stupid growl he does. I HATE it, he sounds like a vicious beast when he does it ( a lil squeaky gremlin vicious beast but still haha.) He does it alot with Blanco, they will play fight and when he gets insanely excited he's like "gwwwaaaaacccckkkkarrrrrrgrrrrrrrr" in this crazy voice, I always make him stop and cool off when he does it. He didn't do the exact same voice...prob cause something was shoved in his mouth, but it was almost there. I know it's not mean and he's not growling at me, but do ur dogs do that when u play tug o war?


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

yep!....Mine sound like beast from hell...but thats just the way they sound...it really doesn't mean anything....if I feel like they are getting too over the top we just stop...run though some basic commands...sit, down, paw, wait..etc..till they are calm again..then we play some more


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

hahaha o ok good, Iggy's voice is so ugly! Everyone goes " Ohh, wow his bark is funny", they really mean the shut him up before my ear drums shatter. =)


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

I love it when Bolo growls and shrieks for one very simple reason.

if she is growling and shrieking its play. if she is dead silent its NOT play...its serious.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

any pics of Bolo zim?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

erm...well...here is the thing

im posting from a cellphone. I have quite a few pics I just can't post them from this phone. the only way is to either get on a computer or to email them or transfer them using Windows Live Messenger. 

there are some already posted somewhere on DF. maybe someone will help find them because im limited right now


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

here ya go....


http://www.dogforums.com/attachment...8842d1238602619t-post-your-pooch-bologirl.jpg


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

aw..cutie , post some more when u get a chance =). What about urs pugmom. I think pugs are too funny with their snorting noises. Iggy wanted to be friends with a baby boston terrier in the park, but she got scared after little bit and was trying to bite him lol.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Here is my pack...


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

omg ur pug is cute...the pit is beautiful and look at the lil boston in his pit bull pose lol luv it!


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