# Missy loved new groomer BUT Bordetella is required...told it's Illinois State Law??



## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

I first posted "_My dog HATES to be groomed and I'm at my whits end....HELP_!!" because her previous groomer said she had to muzzle her and Missy was shaking and terrified when we left. So, if you read those, you know the problems I was having with her. But, I found a new groomer very close to home....5 minute vs 20 minute drive...and she LOVED it. They are a boarding/training/daycare/grooming facility....."Club Paws Alton, IL" http://clubpawsinc.com/

She took to the groomer (Nick) right away. Another plus, I got her a doggie booster seat because she HATES riding in the car and shakes the whole time. As opposed to laying in the seat, this boosts her up so she can see out the windows, is lined with plush padding and has a clip to hook to her harness so she can't jump out. This was her first time riding in it....to the groomer...and she laid down in it and shook the whole time *UNTIL* I brought her home from the groomer. Nick said he had no problem with her at all until the last toenail...she tried to nip him, he just said "OH no" and she stopped. She came out looking SO happy instead of terrified like before and actually sat UP in her new booster seat and looked out the window the whole time totally happy.....that's HUGE for her riding in the car. *Now....my problem and question.*

Two ladies in the office took me in and looked over her shot record and said "she has not had her Bordetella shot and that is required." I told them that her previous groomer didn't ask for one OR ask for proof of any shots. The ladies said they were breaking the law because it's an Illinois State Law that they have one before being groomed. They said they would waive it this time but she would HAVE to have one before they could groom her the next time. I do NOT want to "over vaccinate" my dog OR get her something that could make her sick....which an article below says it can.

I cannot find anywhere after googling several things that this is an Illinois State Law. In fact, I found some disturbing things about this shot including the possibility of causing anaphylactic shock with it. I called my vet while waiting for her to be groomed and they said they administer it through the nose. I have found several articles about this vaccination....AND that the ONLY Illinois law for dogs is the rabies shot.

Here is a link to one article I found that disturbed me about this shot:
http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2012/03/21/bordetella-does-your-dog-really-need-the-kennel-cough-vaccine/

This article also states "_The truth is, the vaccines are not only ineffective but they are far from safe._" NOW what do I do? She LOVED this groomer and so did I. She was so happy when I picked her up AND happy coming home.....the sitting up in her new booster seat and NOT shaking and trembling was a huge change in her. The ONLY other groomer even remotely close to me is PetCo. I've not tried them and don't know what they require, but I would like to keep going to this groomer. 

Okay....after this long post (sorry...but I'm at a crossroads here), what would you do or recommend? One thing concerns me that they may have lied to me about it being an Illinois State Law to have a Bordetella shot before being groomed....anyone know anything about this law....real or not? Thanks so much. OH....here is something else I found "The lack of efficacy is well summarized by noted immunologist Dr. Ronald Schultz: “Kennel Cough is not a vaccinatable disease”.
Google Link: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=%E2%80%9CKennel+Cough+is+not+a+vaccinatable+disease%E2%80%9D.&oq=%E2%80%9CKennel+Cough+is+not+a+vaccinatable+disease%E2%80%9D.&gs_l=hp.12...2795.10461.0.13036.2.2.0.0.0.0.103.103.0j1.1.0.les%3B..0.1...1c.2j1.JXSa607aWDU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=9d9a3e994323bd6c&bpcl=39650382&biw=1600&bih=704


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Sounds like they likely lied or misspoke. They may have meant that it's their policy. I work at a dog park and we require it, I train with a lady who requires it, etc. I have personally never seen a reaction from a bordetella vaccine to worry much about it. I hate overvaccinating, but my dogs spit out half of the stuff anyway, so I am thankful that it still "counts" but they don't ingest all of it.  

I agree that the likelihood of it being effective is slim to none. There are so many URI strains that it does not cover them all; two of my own dogs have gotten a URI while current on their Bordetella vaccines. They're cheap and easy though, so I just do it to be able to train/have my dogs at work. I would just vaccinate for it in this case to make them happy if she does so well there.


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## wishiwas (Mar 3, 2008)

If you've found out that it is not required by law.. I'd call them up and tell them that it isn't and see what they say. Some people are just misinformed. You wouldn't believe how many people, including vets, around here will tell you it is law to have a rabies vaccination yearly when the law clearly accepts 3-year as well.


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## luvmyfurballs (Mar 5, 2012)

Some groomers require more then just a rabies shot. Mine doesn't. I have gone to training places that require it and I have never gone back. Most dogs have enough stuff going into their system and I don't feel comfortable adding something that isn't necessarily required.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

I am a groomer in IL. and it is NOT a state law for grooming salons to require ANY shots. Rabies is a state law, however, groomers are NOT required by law to check it. That being said, MANY facilities that offer boarding, daycare, etc DO require bordatella and more as their OWN policy. I agree with you. Bordatella is kennel cough. Just like with human flus and flu shots, there are hundreds of strains of the virus, and the shot only protects, at best, a few of them, and is only good for 6 months. You can try to get the facility to make an exception (unlikely) or you can ask your vet to write up something saying it is a risk to your dogs health to have further vaccines...but you will be best finding a holistic vet to do that, as most regular vets disagree. And whether or not the facility will accept that? You would have to ask. Unfortunately, this is the stance for many facilities, and I wouldnt vaccinate my dog, just because of a facility's policy...but thats me, and luckily, I am not in a situation where I have to.


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## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks for all the info. I did send them an email stating my concerns about the vaccination and if they would accept a waiver if my vet would write one. I guess I understand their policy because they are more than a grooming facility. They board, do daycare, play dates (1/2 day, etc), training and grooming. So maybe they are concerned about just being in the facility with so many dogs coming and going that it's necessary. But, like a few of you wrote, there are so many strains that it's likely it wouldn't do any good to keep Missy from contracting it anyway. So, I guess I'll see what they write back. A big concern was that they told me it was the state law when I discovered it is not.....just the rabies shot. I'd rather they just said it is OUR policy.


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## Solstitialis (Sep 9, 2012)

I had the same problem with a dog training class I wanted to attend. 

Unfortunately, they wouldn't budge on the issue. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense: If MY dog is NOT vaccinated and brings in KC, the only way it would get other dogs sick would be if it was a strain NOT covered by the vaccine, in which case my dog would have gotten it even if she WAS vaccinated!

A vaccine you have to repeat every 6 months and isn't very effective and is for a minor treatable illness is a vaccine just not worth getting.


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## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

I totally agree. I hope they will accept a waiver from my vet because it's the very first positive experience my Missy has had at a groomer. Unfortunate...not for her....but for the vaccine they require...AARRGGHHHH!!!!!


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

If they won't accept a waiver, I'd ask the groomer if he would consider coming to your house to do the grooming. If it's only 5mins, he might not have a problem with it, and you have a good reason.

My dog has had the bordatella vaccine many times and has never had the slightest reaction to it. As with vaccines for humans, the bad reactions are played up by the media. My vet doesn't insist upon it, but I usually let them do it anyway because my dog is "high risk" because of weekly agility classes and frequent trials. Recently I fostered a border collie who came to me with a nasty case of bordatella from the shelter (plus secondary infection). I was so glad that my dog was UTD cause she was definitely exposed. She never got it.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

The potential reactions to the vaccine/spray are way worse than anything that could happen to your dog if they actually caught kennel cough. The only dogs who would be at serious risk if they caught it are the very old, very young, and/or immunocompromised dogs who cannot be vaccinated anyways.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> As with vaccines for humans, the bad reactions are played up by the media.


media and internet forums


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## Solstitialis (Sep 9, 2012)

I used to work at a shelter where 80% plus of dogs had kennel cough. My dog also came to work with me every day and never caught kennel cough there and was never vaccinated for it. He caught it once, the very first time i fostered a dog that had full blown kennel cough and never got it again and lived 14 additional years. My current work place usually has KC and neither of my dogs are vaccinated and neither have picked it up.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Its not just the actual vax causing issues right at vaccination time, but more importantly, its the long term effects of the dogs immune system being bombarded time after time with multiple vaccines. Let me see if I can find a legit link for those that may not realize its more than just the vaccine and immediate reaction or not. We dont vax ourselves or kids every year for measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. After initial vax we are good. Its been PROVEN the same with most of the pet vax that have had studies done on it.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Here is an article by Dr. karen Becker (world renown) and she references Dr. Jean Dodds, anothwr world reknown vet.
www.drbeckersbites.com/pet-vaccinations


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## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks all....I read that article Graco22 and it gives me even more concern....my dog is a small breed. BUT....good news. I got a very nice email back from Jackie at Club Paws and she said I could waiver the vaccine AND agreed with me that the shot does not work most of the time because her dog got it and had the shot. I called my vet and they said they would write one. Here is the email from Club Paws:

_Shirley,
If you can get a waiver that will be fine. You are not the first person who has not wanted to give their pet this vaccine, and we respect each individual pet owners decision on what they are willing to do and what they do not feel comfortable with. We have doggie daycare, boarding and grooming here, so it is not like a regular grooming shop. While your dog is here your dog is exposed to up to 70 dogs, and one of them could be carrying something. While I completely agree with you about the shot not working anyway, because my dog got kennel cough once and has always been vaccinated. We just want to protect as much as we can every dog that comes in the door.
Many places that do not require this vaccine do so because they do not have doggie daycare or boarding in the same building. The law you looked up does not pertain to private owners it is required of all pet care business owners who have doggie daycare and boarding. You will not be able to find it yourself.
Bring in the form from your vet and we will be happy to groom your dog again, she was very nice, and seemed to like us.
Jackie_


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

godfreygirl143 said:


> Many places that do not require this vaccine do so because they do not have doggie daycare or boarding in the same building. The law you looked up does not pertain to private owners it is required of all pet care business owners who have doggie daycare and boarding. You will not be able to find it yourself.
> Bring in the form from your vet and we will be happy to groom your dog again, she was very nice, and seemed to like us.
> Jackie[/I][/COLOR]


It is nice that you have an alternative via the waiver, but I'd be quite curious what law she is citing. The only laws pertaining to running a kennel (boarding) that I can find are under the Animal Welfare Act within which I can find no mention of bordetella vaccine and then there's this note:


> Interestingly, the Illinois Department of Agriculture licenses all boarding facilities in the state and according to the Animal Welfare Act, boarding facilities do not have to require that pets be vaccinated for kennel cough. State law does require animals be vaccinated for rabies and distemper though.


from the U of I College of Veterinary Medicine


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## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

I have no idea which law she's talking about. I can't find it either....but I'm just glad I have the option of NOT getting it. It's the first positive experience Missy has EVER had since I believe one lady hurt her at my previous groomer. That lady shaved her totally and Missy was acting like her right back leg was hurting for quite some time after that. Then she had to be muzzled each time I took her back there....even with the lady she liked. But this time she was even happy riding home and didn't shake and shiver the whole time. She actually sat up in her new car booster seat, looked happy and looked around out the window. Maybe this owner is "talking through her hat", but I now have an out for Missy.....law or no law. I've also considered taking Missy there for a "play date" but, to do that, this is what they require:
Quote: "Proof of vaccinations is required, including DHLPP, Rabies and Bordetella."
Website: http://clubpawsinc.com/Daycare.html
Any thoughts on the DHLPP shot??


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

godfreygirl143 said:


> Any thoughts on the DHLPP shot??


That's just the standard yearly vaccination; Distemper, Hepatitis, Parvo, Parainfluenza. I believe the L might stand for Lepto? (We don't have the "L" it here, just DHPP, but I don't think Lepto is something that we have to worry about this far north).

Its definitely more effective/worthwhile than Bortadella, IMO. Zhaor is right, negative effects of vaccines ARE played up in the media (and on internet forums!). They DO happen, and they can be very severe, but the severe reactions are _statistically_ rarer than the occurance of those diseases. Websites like this don't help, since they only list the potential effects and not their frequency. Actually, I couldn't find anything on the frequency of adverse reactions on the web, outside of academic sources. This study in Japan found that only 0.5% of dogs vaccinated experienced ANY adverse reaction. 1 dog of 57,300 died; 41 had an anaphylactic reaction. The most common adverse event was dermatological reaction (e.g. hives, rash or swelling; 244/57300)

I'm not stating all of this to convince you to get the vaccine; it just seems like a lot of people are misinformed or only listen to anecdotal evidence. Ultimately, it is your decision to decide what is best for your dog.In the end it comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. What is the "cost" to your dog (and you!) of getting any of DHLPP, including the probability of getting one of those 5? This like suffering, vet bills, possibility of mortality, etc. Vs. the cost of an adverse reaction to the vaccination, including the probability of having one at all (which is very low), and having one that is severe or life-threatening (very, very low). If your vet tells you that there are NO risks associated with vaccination, find a new one. There is *always* a risk, with any medical procedure - its just knowing/determining what and how big that risk is.

ETA: As an aside, I really, really want to read this publication on updating vaccination protocols, but I can't access the article. The abstract is interesting.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

While the above is true, Gingerkid, my biggest concern with vaccines is not the initail reaction or not, but the long term effects of repeated vaccinations. Look thru the article I posted earlier. 

I am so glad that they will accept a waiver, and that your vet will write one up for you. That is fantastic.


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## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

Yes....I'm happy they agreed. I was concerned they wouldn't budge on that. YEA!!


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Graco22 said:


> While the above is true, Gingerkid, my biggest concern with vaccines is not the initail reaction or not, but the long term effects of repeated vaccinations. Look thru the article I posted earlier.
> 
> I am so glad that they will accept a waiver, and that your vet will write one up for you. That is fantastic.



Dr. Becker references several studies over 20 years old. The site also lists 6 puppy and kitten vaccinations. "ages 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 14 weeks, and 16 weeks", which I have never heard of. I also question that 63-70% of vet visits are for vaccinations alone, especially since her reference is a book rather than, for example, the American Veterinary Medical Association statistics. Additionally, while it may appear that way from vet records alone, most yearly vaccinations are given at a yearly check-up... which actually serves a purpose in addition to the vaccinations, at least in my experience. Lastly, the studies regarding cancer are all in felines. And while that is very applicable to people with cats, you can't extrapolate "Feline vaccines causes cancer in cats" to "Dog vaccines cause cancer in dogs". Dogs and cats, while similar, are not the same; and the vaccines dogs receive are not the same as the ones cats receive. In fact, the USDA recently approved a vaccine to _treat _canine tumors.

Indeed, and if you'll notice, I was responding to the OP's question about DHPP, I state directly that I am merely providing information that many people do not seem to have and that the decision to vaccinate is entirely the OP's based on her and her dog's needs. Actually, the last abstract to which I linked indicates that there should be a review of current vaccination practices with the view of reducing the standard booster from 1 year to 3 years (or more) because of the results of recently published studies, and since I am a big fan of evidence based decision making, I agree with their assessment that vaccination protocols need to be evaluated and, in all likelihood, reduced from the current annual schedule.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

If you have time, watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Xd5ghnlJ4
Interesting vaccine basics discussion.

For me, Dr Schultz is much more qualified on vaccine knowledge than Dr Becker and Dr Dodds.


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## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

I can see there are a lot of varying views on this vaccine. I guess it comes down to the dog owners preference. I get concerned about her being exposed to so many dogs....but she liked that part of it a lot!!!....but also about getting her a vaccine that could harm her because she's a small breed. But one of the owners agreeing that it doesn't work much of the time because her dog got kennel cough and had the vaccine helped me decide. I'm not going to get it for her. She's only there for about an hour and isn't playing or mingling with the other dogs....but she is in a kennel cage waiting for me when I pick her up. If I decide to take her there for play dates, I may reconsider. I don't know yet....I'll have to do some thinking on that.


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## Fade (Feb 24, 2012)

I live outside of Chicago and we had a Dog named Wally contract Lepto last year. he had kidney failure and went to a specialist for dialysis and survived it.

Kennel cough is spread like a cold. its easy to spread even without contact. also no vaccine is 100% they estimate the dogs may attain about 70% immunity to some viruses. To me its like the flu vaccines people will argue that it does not work at all and other people say it works super well. ( I will not say my opinion lol ) We require our grooming clients to get the Bordetella vaccination. We have never had a dog come down with the disease from our kennels. and we have never had a dog have a reaction to the vaccine. Our grooming area is in our kennel/hospitalization area. We get all sorts of sick animals. sometimes even parvo dogs. We have small area in another room for the sick dogs but I am handling them and handling other dogs. It is impossible to eliminate exposure completely. Every night before I go I bleach the area up and down. I bleach my scrubs. A veterinary facility can expose your dog to more things that they may not ever be exposed to sadly. When you have to deal with this worry I understand why our Vet has a strict vaccination policy. Its a tough situation. Most people jump at the opportunity to claim their dog picked something up from a vet or kennel. 

People tell me all the time...I went to this one kennel and my dog got kennel cough! how terrible what did they do to my dog! I am NEVER going to them again. I hear this ALL the time. We have had people leave our vet because she picked up her dog from boarding and it had an eye booger. The dog had a history of bad eye problems and we had to wash its eyes quite a few times a day. and give its medication. so it had AN EYE BOOGER. she SCREAMED at me and cried and made a scene and told everyone she is never coming back. She said we abused her dog and we never took it out of its kennel and we were terrible people. I think she had some disorder or something. ( sigh ) One lady had a very elderly dog that we treated like a queen. and we noticed she was getting a little sore. she had been in the kennel for like 2 weeks and we are not a big boarding facility we only have limited services. so naturally being in a kennel for 2 weeks even with walks and play times she got a little sore. I called and told the owner and she was like oh yea that leg is stiff sometimes. When she came in...she demanded to see what we did to her dog and how we kept her. and demanded her records and said she was never coming back. Sorry it is turning into a rant but...from this end of the discussion there are reasons for certain requirements.


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## godfreygirl143 (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm sorry that happened to you. It sounds like you are very careful in caring for the pets that come into your facility. It's a shame some people can be that way....but they are probably that way with everyone, not just you. I do spoil my 'baby' too, but I would never blame someone else if she caught something. That would be like...ohhhh....blaming the grocery store if I got the flu from someone shopping there (I think...if that's a good example). I can see your point of view on the shots. I'm a bit torn on the subject. My Missy had a very positive experience for the first time at a groomer with them and I want to take her back. I just may get that shot for her next month....I'm still torn on it. It's not a veterinary facility, but it is a boarding, daycare, and grooming facility and, like they said, Missy would be "exposed" to about 70 dogs. SIGH!! What to do.....what to do.


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