# Jack Russell Terrier Nightmare



## Doggengard

This nightmarish situation has taught some very important lessons.

#1. A dog is shaped by 3 main things: Genetics, Raising/Training (where we come into the picture), and the individual dog's Personality. You can get two dogs from the same litter (another HUGE mistake, by the way, since it leads to littermate issues) and these two dogs can have VERY different personalities.

#2. Buying a mixed breed dog can be very risky because you have no idea which genes are going to express themselves until the dog grows up a little bit. If all you want is a lap dog, you might be better off getting a purebred chihuahua, rather than taking your chances with a chihuahua mix, for example.

#3. Buying a very young puppy can be very risky for many reasons, and is much more time-demanding in the earliest stages. You may be better off getting an older puppy (at least 4 months old), since many of the issues involved in keeping a delicate and tiny puppy alive and healthy will have already passed. And by six months of age, they can control their bladder and bowel movements much better, and are much easier to potty train. Another consideration is that you will be able to tell for sure whether you are getting a purebred chihuahua or a chihuahua mix by this point in time, for example. 

#4. Knowing what the proper colors and markings should look like in a purebred can help you weed out the wrong puppy ads with pictures fairly quickly. For example, if a chihuahua puppy ad has a picture of a puppy with the typical Jack Russell Terrier colors and markings, you should be able to quickly tell that it is NOT a purebred chihuahua, for example. 

So, here is my story. Ever since I was a kid I have had a chihuahua. My parents bought my first chihuahua for me when I was in the 2nd grade. She was a wonderful, sweet and loving little dog, and I had her until my last year of high school, when she died of old age. I then bought a new purebred chihuahua puppy and raised her up and eventually took her with me when I got my first job and got my own apartment. She recently died at the age of 16. I was heartbroken so, I started looking for a new chihuahua puppy.

I found an ad on craigslist for a chihuahua puppy for $40. Yes, yes, I know that should have been my first clue. A purebred chihuahua would be more expensive than that. But her picture looked so cute and she had these exotic and unusual colors and markings (brown and white). Yes, I know, that should have been my 2nd clue. When I arrived at the seller's house, I noticed that they had 8 adult dogs running around and looking back in hindsight, I can see that one of them was a male Jack Russell Terrier, and another one was a male Rat Terrier, and yes, littermate dogs can have the same mother, but two different fathers. Anyways, they told me that I had to take both puppies (littermates, yikes!) to get that price. Yep, third clue. But I thought, "wow! 2 dogs for $40! And now they will have someone to play with while I'm at work." 

What a disaster! The female ended up looking and acting exactly like a Jack Russell Terrier, not a chihuahua. Her brother ended up looking and acting exactly like a Rat Terrier, not a chihuahua. Not surprisingly when you read about Rat Terriers, he ended up being far more of a lap dog than she did. But they were both so strongly pair bonded, that they prefered to lie on the couch with each other than to sit in my lap. And the Jack Russell Terrier was extremely active, noisy (vocal), and destructive. Never had I seen such destructive and willful disobedient behavior from any one dog. And to top it all off, her personality was not at all what I wanted from a dog. She literally hated me. She wanted nothing to do with me, other than being fed. But yet, if I put her outside in the back yard, without her litter mate, she started barking loudly non-stop until I reunited her with her brother. 

I had to separate them when I got them neutered/spayed, and vaccinated, and she howled and cried and barked relentlessly. Neighbors complained about her. They also complained about her attacking their cats. My old chihuahua got along fine with cats.

I just couldn't stand her anymore. I knew it was my fault for making the mistakes I had made, so I made sure that I took full responsibility for her by getting her and her brother into a no-kill animal rescue shelter. I had to actually pay them to take these two little dogs off my hands, and they did require that both littermates stay together. Otherwise, I would have kept the little Rat Terrier. He was sweet and lovable compared the the Jack Russell Terrier. From what I understand, part of that is simply the difference between the two breeds. And part of it was just her personality vs. his personality. He would look at me right in the eyes, lovingly and sweetly. She NEVER looked me in the eyes, and would avoid eye contact even when I picked her up to hold her. That is another big clue when you get a puppy. If it avoids eye contact, it might not be the puppy for you.

Anyways, after that horrible experience, I was very careful the next time around to make sure I got a purebred chihuahua puppy based upon what she looked like at 4 months of age, and I made sure she looked me right in the eyes and that when I sat down on the floor, she came over to me and sat in my lap before I bought her. And she is what I wanted: a sweet and loving little lap dog.


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## BernerMax

That was very brave of you for sharing your story.
I hope some other person reads this and is able to take the Advice...


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## Doggengard

Sadly, I noticed when I was looking for my current chihuahua that Jack Russel Terriers and other kinds of terriers are getting mixed into chihuahua bloodlines, more and more. It is so obvious when you know what to look for in terms of their colors and markings. Chihuahuas should not look like that. 

Chihuahua mixes are becoming more common than purebred chihuahuas. This is not good for either breed of dogs.

This is a picture of the puppies I bought for $40, thinking I was getting chihuahua puppies with unusual markings. You can clearly see the one on the left has Rat Terrier genes (his ears eventually stood all the way up) and the one on the right has Jack Russell Terrier genes (her ears never stood up, by the way).


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## Doggengard

Let me show you a few more pictures of them...


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## HollowHeaven

The funny thing is, both dogs look exactly like chihuahua mixes, not JRT mixes. Lol.

Color does not = breed


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## KodiBarracuda

HollowHeaven said:


> The funny thing is, both dogs look exactly like chihuahua mixes, not JRT mixes. Lol.
> 
> Color does not = breed


My thoughts too.


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## Doggengard

HollowHeaven said:


> The funny thing is, both dogs look exactly like chihuahua mixes, not JRT mixes. Lol.
> 
> Color does not = breed



Simply compare pictures of them to pictures of jack russell terriers and rat terriers, and yes, they are chihuahua mixes-- chihuahuas mixed with jack russell terriers and rat terriers. And unfortunately, the terrier genes won out with them. They acted like terriers instead of chihuahuas.

My main point is that color does matter. While chihuahuas currently come in many different colors, the reason they come in many different colors now is because there has been too much mixing and corrupting of their bloodlines.

If you're reading this, and you want a nice, sweet little lap dog, in other words, the old traditional style of chihuahua, then pay attention to their colors, and pay attention to the way their head looks and their eyes and ears. 

*In the pictures above, you may notice that the girl's ears never stood up. Why? Because the Jack Russell Terrier genes expressed themselves in her. Chihuahuas' ears should stand up. This is another reason to wait to buy a puppy until at least 4 months of age, so you know what you are getting. If the ears aren't standing up by then, then it is NOT a purebred chihuahua, and it will not act like a purebred chihuahua.*


"The Chihuahua’s history is puzzling and there are many theories surrounding the origin of the breed. Both folklore and archeological finds show that the breed originated in Mexico. The most common and most likely theory is that Chihuahuas are descended from the Techichi, a companion dog favored by the Toltec civilization in Mexico.[2] No records of the Techichi are available prior to the 9th century, although dog pots from Colima, Mexico, buried as part of the western Mexico shaft tomb tradition which date back to 300 BC are thought to depict Techichis.[3] It is probable that earlier ancestors were present prior to the Mayans as dogs approximating the Chihuahua are found in materials from the Great Pyramid of Cholula, predating 1530 and in the ruins of Chichen Itza on the Yucatán Peninsula.[2]
In fact, wheeled dog toys representing both the "deer head" and "apple head" varieties of Chihuahua have been unearthed across Mesoamerica from Mexico to El Salvador. The earliest of these were found at Tres Zapotes in Veracruz, Mexico, which date to 100 AD.[4] Dog effigy pots dating to around 1325 AD discovered in Georgia and Tennessee also appear to represent the Chihuahua[5] It has been argued that these pots arrived with survivors from the Casas Grandes site in Chihuahua, Mexico, after it was attacked and destroyed around 1340 AD. Pots unearthed at Casas Grandes include representations of the "deer head" variety of Chihuahua.[4] Hernan Cortés wrote, in a 1520 letter, that the Aztecs raised and sold the little dogs as food.[6] Colonial records refer to small, nearly hairless dogs at the beginning of the 19th century, one of which claims 16th-century Conquistadores found them plentiful in the region later known as Chihuahua.[7]
A progenitor of the breed was reputedly found in 1850 in old ruins near Casas Grandes in the Mexican state of Chihuahua from which the breed gets its name,[8] although most artifacts relating to its existence are found around Mexico City."


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## Doggengard

Here is stock photo of a purebred Jack Russell Terrier.

Compare it to the little girl pictured above...

If you see these colors in a chihuahua puppy.... RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Doggengard

Compare side by side... photo number 1 and number 3 were my dog. Photo number 2 in the middle is a stock photo of a Jack Russell Terrier.


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## Doggengard

Now let's turn our attention to rat terriers, while sweet in comparison to the jack russell terrier, let's look at these stock photos in comparison that little chihuahua/rat terrier mix puppy...


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## Doggengard

Oops! Here's the pics to compare.... First two are stock photos of a rat terriers, last two were my mixed breed dog.


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## HollowHeaven

My chihauhua's ears didn't stand until he was almost 6 months old. Neither did his brothers.
He is black and tan, his brother was brown and white, just as the one you posted above. That was the mother's color, the father was black and tan.

You gave two tiny puppies to a shelter instead of trying to rehome them. That is not taking full responsibility, that is laziness. That is giving up without giving them a chance.

And, just gonna throw this out there, eye contact, to a dog, is a threat. It makes them nervous and afraid. That puppy was trying to appease you by looking away. She was saying 'don't hurt me'.


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## Chichan

Doggengard said:


> Here is stock photo of a purebred Jack Russell Terrier.
> 
> Compare it to the little girl pictured above...
> 
> If you see these colors in a chihuahua puppy.... RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


According to the AKC those could be natural occurring markings in a purebred Chi
http://www.totallychihuahuas.com/chihuahua-basics/chihuahua-colors-markings
http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/color_markings.cfm
It sounds like you bought from a backyard breeder and no purebred Chi would cost that little. If you want a purebred always ask that the dogs be AKC registered and view the sire and dam's pedigree before purchase. You can't just do it from site. 
BYBs have a lot of inbreeding which can result in behavioral and health issues.


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## Doggengard

HollowHeaven said:


> My chihauhua's ears didn't stand until he was almost 6 months old. Neither did his brothers.
> He is black and tan, his brother was brown and white, just as the one you posted above. That was the mother's color, the father was black and tan.
> 
> You gave two tiny puppies to a shelter instead of trying to rehome them. That is not taking full responsibility, that is laziness. That is giving up without giving them a chance.
> 
> And, just gonna throw this out there, eye contact, to a dog, is a threat. It makes them nervous and afraid. That puppy was trying to appease you by looking away. She was saying 'don't hurt me'.


Chihuahua's ears typically stand up within about 6 to 8 weeks of age. But definitely by 4 months, if they are purebred.

Yours don't sound like they are purebred, with those colors and with their ears not standing up right away.

My previous two chihuahuas made eye contact with me. My current chihuahua makes eye contact with me.

Not making eye contact, in my opinion, is not a good thing. It means the dog does not see me as its friend. And she sure didn't see me as her friend. 

Giving them to a no-kill animal shelter was for their own good, because I did not like her, and she did not like me. As I stated earlier, if I could have kept the little boy rat terrier/chihuahua mix, I would have. I liked him. He was sweet compared to her. But since they were pair bonded littermates, the no-kill animal shelter demanded that I give up both of them at the same time to them, so I did.


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## Doggengard

Chichan said:


> According to the AKC those could be natural occurring markings in a purebred Chi
> http://www.totallychihuahuas.com/chihuahua-basics/chihuahua-colors-markings
> http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/color_markings.cfm
> It sounds like you bought from a backyard breeder and no purebred Chi would cost that little. If you want a purebred always ask that the dogs be AKC registered and view the sire and dam's pedigree before purchase. You can't just do it from site.
> BYBs have a lot of inbreeding which can result in behavioral and health issues.


They didn't used to look like that. There has been a lot of mixing through the years, with terriers, and it is corrupting the gene pool of chihuahuas with terrier genes.

My main point is this... if you want a sweet little lap dog, DON'T get a Jack Russell Terrier.

They do not make good lap dogs.

And don't get a chihuahua mix that looks anything like a Jack Russell Terrier, or you might end up experiencing what I experienced.

If it has those genes mixed in, you might be sorry you got that puppy.

Those $40 puppies ended up costing me quite a bit of money when you consider I got them spayed, neutered, vaccinated, and then had to cough up even more money to get them into a no-kill animal shelter for small dogs.

In the future, I would always look for those markings and make sure I didn't get a puppy that looked like that.

And I would never buy littermates ever again.


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## Doggengard

Purebred chihuahuas ears stand up quite early, like these puppies here, guess which one is mine...


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## Doggengard

One other thing I wanted to mention was that her bark was the typical Jack Russell Terrier-style bark, not the typical chihuahua bark. Another clue right there.


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## Doggengard

Read this article about why Jack Russell Terriers do not make good lap dogs...

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2005/12/bad-dog-article-for-prospective.html


"Jack Russell terriers are fox-hunting machines, possessing superior intelligence and gifted with great speed. They have athletic, muscular, compact bodies that run low to the ground, perfectly balanced. They have small chests that allow them to run down fox holes, or in any other small space you can imagine. Some of them can climb trees and fences.

In short, these are remarkable little dogs. Bad dogs. 

Members of the Jack Russell terrier Club of America have posted a warning on the Internet about the dogs they love. The web site is called The "Bad Dog" Talk and it asks the one important question we failed to ask ourselves before we brought Richie home: "Is a Jack Russell terrier the right dog for you?"

Many dog owners are overwhelmed by these small, high-maintenance pets and they abandon them. I consider myself an experienced dog owner, yet I understand the sheer panic these poor people feel when they realize what a problem they have on their hands. The statistics are tragic. Jack Russells are the most commonly abandoned dogs in North America."


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## jsca

Just because a purebred dog's ears are _supposed_ to stand up at a certain age doesn't mean they will. 

GSD ears should be fully erect between 8 weeks and no later than 6 months. Any GSD older than that will most likely be have genes for "soft" ears and never stand. Here's a picture of my purebred GSD at 8 months old with floppy ears. 

View attachment 144737


and here, about two months later with fully erect ears. 

View attachment 144745


Obviously a GSD is very different from a chihuahua, which will mature into their body faster than a small breed dog. But, point being, erect ears have nothing at all to do with identifying breed, as even purebreds can fault against their breed standard. Some dogs with erect ears will mature into them much later in life than standard, while some never do.

Judging by the dogs' ages in the picture I'm assuming you gave them up fairly young. the one you label as the JRT mix could very well right now have fully erect ears.

ETA: also, where are you getting the statistic that JRTs are the most commonly abandoned dog in North America? Without having any statistics in front of me I would be willing to bet that there are more pit and am staf mixes than anything else.


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## lil_fuzzy

Let's also point out that there is actually nothing wrong with terriers or JRT's. There are individual dogs that will be more challenging, or have something wrong with them, but the JRT is a very popular breed and just because it wasn't right for the OP, doesn't mean it's a "bad" breed or "bad dog".

The general gist of the thread seems to be that terriers are not as good as chis and it's "unfortunate" when a chi x JRT has more terrier than chi traits. JRT's aren't lapdogs, etc. 

I happen to really like the JRT, but I also recognise that they're not a dog for everyone. (For the record, I also like chis). I have a JRT x who has JRT traits and looks like a JRT. He's a very sweet dog who loves to sit on my lap. He's also focused and obedient. He's also a hunter, he loves to dig and chase when he's outside. That doesn't mean he can't be a lapdog when he's inside. There are many hunting breeds that are great hunters outside and great family dogs inside. 

Getting focus and obedience from a dog requires training, it's not something that just happens on its own. Not everyone can train the more independent breeds, such as terriers. This is the skill of the owner, not a problem with the breed.

Also, just because a dog is white with brown spots, doesn't mean it's a JRT x. There are several breeds that have brown spots, and there are mixes of breeds without brown spots that could produce puppies with brown spots.


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## NicoleIsStoked

i disagree that you should wait until 4 months of age to buy a puppy. if you go to a real breeder, then its not an issue. by 4 months old my dog was fully potty trained, had a reliable sit, down, left paw, right paw and began leash training. he is a Norfolk Terrier and is an absolute sweetheart and a total little lap dog. he also has lots of spunk to get up and go anytime i want. he is exactly the kind of pup i wanted. so i went to a responsible, reputable, registered breeder and paid $2500 to get the puppy i wanted.
the first mistake you made was looking for a puppy on craigslist. never mind that they were asking $40. then they pressured you into buying 2 and you caved without doing any research. i will agree that they are not purebred chihuahuas but what do you expect when you buy from a backyard breeder/puppy mill? colour has nothing to do with it, nor does ear set. a puppy's ears can change form dozens of times while they're teething. it happened to my dog and i massaged them a bunch and now they sit perfectly. it has to do with calcium. the dog not looking you in the eyes means she didn't trust you. she was likely not treated well by her original owner and needed a chance to warm up to you and bond with you. and yes, you should have personally rehomed them with someone who you trusted would take good care of them. not just ditched them at a shelter and hoped for the best.
to be completely honest, i'm not trying to attack you, but if i was a breeder or worked at a shelter, theres no way i would give you a dog based on this story. the whole thing just screams irresponsible. from the lack of research beforehand, to the lack of research afterwards, to the leaving them at a shelter. but that probably doesn't matter because you likely got your new chihuahua from a BYB as well.


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## jsca

Honestly to me it doesn't even sound like an issue of BYB vs irresponsible breeder, it sounds to me like you had a typical puppy (active, vocal, hyper) that had littermate syndrome and you didn't have the patience to deal with it. I'm not even saying that as much of a criticism, I myself wouldn't have the time or patience to deal with two puppies at once. 

In some cases I would be critical of this situation, but I'm not because you have obviously learned from your mistake. I myself have made mistakes in purchasing dogs in the past (I condoned the purchase of 2 BYB chihuahuas when living with my parents), and I'm sure plenty of others on this forum have as well. What's important is that you learn from the experience and don't make the same mistake twice.


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## Doggengard

jsca said:


> Just because a purebred dog's ears are _supposed_ to stand up at a certain age doesn't mean they will.
> 
> GSD ears should be fully erect between 8 weeks and no later than 6 months. Any GSD older than that will most likely be have genes for "soft" ears and never stand. Here's a picture of my purebred GSD at 8 months old with floppy ears.
> 
> View attachment 144737
> 
> 
> and here, about two months later with fully erect ears.
> 
> View attachment 144745
> 
> 
> Obviously a GSD is very different from a chihuahua, which will mature into their body faster than a small breed dog. But, point being, erect ears have nothing at all to do with identifying breed, as even purebreds can fault against their breed standard. Some dogs with erect ears will mature into them much later in life than standard, while some never do.
> 
> Judging by the dogs' ages in the picture I'm assuming you gave them up fairly young. the one you label as the JRT mix could very well right now have fully erect ears.
> 
> ETA: also, where are you getting the statistic that JRTs are the most commonly abandoned dog in North America? Without having any statistics in front of me I would be willing to bet that there are more pit and am staf mixes than anything else.


Remember that this was not my first, or my second time owning a chihuahua, so after the temporary joy of having what I thought was a cheap pair of chihuahuas with exotic and unusual (unusual for chihuahuas, that is) colors and markings wore off, I began to notice how different she was my other chihuahua puppies from the past. And her bark was so different from the typical chihuahua bark. That showed up very early on. It sounded completely different from what I was used to in the past from earlier chihuahuas.

She was surrendered along with her brother at 7 months of age. Her ears never did stand up. JRT ears do not stand up.

People are free to do what they want, but as for me personally, having been through this experience, I will NEVER buy another chihuahua puppy with those color markings and I would never buy a chihuahua puppy if its ears were not already standing up.

And yes, this was a backyard breeder, obviously, and not only that, but they had an adult male JRT and an adult male Rat Terrier on the premises, which explains so much to me about what happened.

Here is my current chihuahua puppy which as you may notice, her ears are already standing up, very early on.

This is what they should look like:


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## Doggengard

lil_fuzzy said:


> Let's also point out that there is actually nothing wrong with terriers or JRT's. There are individual dogs that will be more challenging, or have something wrong with them, but the JRT is a very popular breed and just because it wasn't right for the OP, doesn't mean it's a "bad" breed or "bad dog".
> 
> The general gist of the thread seems to be that terriers are not as good as chis and it's "unfortunate" when a chi x JRT has more terrier than chi traits. JRT's aren't lapdogs, etc.
> 
> I happen to really like the JRT, but I also recognise that they're not a dog for everyone. (For the record, I also like chis). I have a JRT x who has JRT traits and looks like a JRT. He's a very sweet dog who loves to sit on my lap. He's also focused and obedient. He's also a hunter, he loves to dig and chase when he's outside. That doesn't mean he can't be a lapdog when he's inside. There are many hunting breeds that are great hunters outside and great family dogs inside.
> 
> Getting focus and obedience from a dog requires training, it's not something that just happens on its own. Not everyone can train the more independent breeds, such as terriers. This is the skill of the owner, not a problem with the breed.
> 
> Also, just because a dog is white with brown spots, doesn't mean it's a JRT x. There are several breeds that have brown spots, and there are mixes of breeds without brown spots that could produce puppies with brown spots.


This is from the JRTCA's own website:

http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php

"Jack Russells ...
... are first and foremost hunting dogs. The traits and skills that make them excellent hunting dogs (i.e., digging, barking, aggressive nature, ability to follow scent) are often interpreted as bad habits that cause people to give them up.

... are bred to go underground, following scent to locate and bark at quarry until they are dug down to or the quarry bolts. If they do not have an outlet for their natural instincts, they will invent new and fun jobs for themselves, which frequently include guardian of the world and/or their possessions and family, chasing cars, hunting birds, bugs or leaves, or endlessly digging in the soil.

... are a big dog in a little body. They have the same need (or more!) for exercise as a much larger dog... and the mentality to match -- they think they are at least 150 pounds, and are fearless, often challenging other dogs three times their size.

... are often aggressive with other dogs. Same-sex aggression and aggression towards other breeds of dogs is well documented with this terrier. It is strongly recommended that no more than two Jack Russells (of opposite sex only) ever be permitted to stay together unattended.

... are NOT a non-shedding breed! All coat types shed! Smooth coats shed the most, dropping hair continuously year round. Rough coats maintain the guard and dead coat, requiring manual shedding a few times a year. The broken coat is an intermediary coat, between the two types.

... require firm, consistent discipline. They are extremely intelligent, continue to test their limits throughout their life. More often than not, train their owners before the owner knows what has happened! This ability to train their owners can include displays of aggressive behavior. Their assertive nature must be understood and handled properly!

... can become very possessive of their owner or a favorite member of the family or of what they consider to be their personal property if allowed to do so to the point of showing aggressive protective behavior that must be controlled from an early age.

... are commonly known to harass, injure or kill other small pets, such as cats, birds, rabbits, mice, rats, etc., simply due to their strong natural hunting instinct. Raising a puppy with a cat does not guarantee the cat's life-long safety!

... remain active well into their 15-year-plus life span; their need for activity and desire to hunt continues for their entire lifetime. Untrained, unsupervised dogs rarely meet their life expectancy.

... require at least basic obedience training. The dog's life may depend on it! Even well trained dogs will be tempted to chase something interesting, or even disappear into a hole while you are not looking. Off-lead is always a dangerous situation for a Jack Russell unless in a safe environment with experienced JR owners.

... absolutely need a securely fenced yard! Jack Russells will roam due to their hunting instincts.... even if left in an unsecured for a few minutes! You can let them out every day for three years with no trouble....but one day they will disappear and may never come back. Many JR's have been killed by cars by darting into the road in pursuit of a squirrel, cat, etc. They can also dig under, climb or jump over fences; some can climb trees and any height chain link fencing.

... can be very destructive if left unattended and unemployed! Most behavioral problems are due to a lack of companionship, discipline, activity and exercise. If you've only seen perfect, well-behaved JR's, they are ones that were lucky enough to be exercised, well socialized, and trained.

... are country dogs. When made to live in a city or suburban-type environment, their needs and instincts do not change. It would be unreasonable to expect them to be anything other than what they are genetically bred to be -- a serious hunting dog. Your lifestyle must be adjusted to meet their needs; they must have jobs to perform -- an outlet for their considerable energy and intelligence.

... are NOT recommended as apartment or condo dogs. They need a great deal of exercise and outdoor activity, and are usually too loud for such high-density living. They need room to run; leash walking does not satisfy their boundless energy. Unless your schedule permits many hours at home and a lot of outdoor activity, with a safe place the terrier can run, this is not the dog for you. MANY rescues come from apartments, condos, or homes where the owners work away from the home for long periods of time.

... will NOT TOLERATE even unintended mistreatment from a child. They will not put up with typical child handling such as pulling of ears, tails, etc., or taking or "sharing" of the dog's bones, food, toys, etc. They are very assertive and demanding, and never still... jumping all over whoever will allow it. Jack Russells are not recommended for households with children under the age of six unless you are previously experienced with this feisty little bundle of energy.

... are NOT as they are portrayed in the movies, on TV, or other forms of media. Those dogs are professionally trained and handled, and are very obedient only for VERY short periods of time. Celebrity dogs have their needs met by the trainer, and perform their jobs accordingly."


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## Doggengard

NicoleIsStoked said:


> i disagree that you should wait until 4 months of age to buy a puppy. if you go to a real breeder, then its not an issue. by 4 months old my dog was fully potty trained, had a reliable sit, down, left paw, right paw and began leash training. he is a Norfolk Terrier and is an absolute sweetheart and a total little lap dog. he also has lots of spunk to get up and go anytime i want. he is exactly the kind of pup i wanted. so i went to a responsible, reputable, registered breeder and paid $2500 to get the puppy i wanted.
> the first mistake you made was looking for a puppy on craigslist. never mind that they were asking $40. then they pressured you into buying 2 and you caved without doing any research. i will agree that they are not purebred chihuahuas but what do you expect when you buy from a backyard breeder/puppy mill? colour has nothing to do with it, nor does ear set. a puppy's ears can change form dozens of times while they're teething. it happened to my dog and i massaged them a bunch and now they sit perfectly. it has to do with calcium. the dog not looking you in the eyes means she didn't trust you. she was likely not treated well by her original owner and needed a chance to warm up to you and bond with you. and yes, you should have personally rehomed them with someone who you trusted would take good care of them. not just ditched them at a shelter and hoped for the best.
> to be completely honest, i'm not trying to attack you, but if i was a breeder or worked at a shelter, theres no way i would give you a dog based on this story. the whole thing just screams irresponsible. from the lack of research beforehand, to the lack of research afterwards, to the leaving them at a shelter. but that probably doesn't matter because you likely got your new chihuahua from a BYB as well.


Sorry, but there is no way I would pay $2500 for a dog.

From my perspective, she was a horrible dog for me, and I do not regret rehoming her to a no-kill animal shelter. Maybe someone will want that emotionally cold fish of a dog, that destructive and unruly dog. Not me.

Sometimes dogs turn out bad. People sometimes forget that dogs have personalities, too, just like people, and sometimes they clash with their owners. I wasn't going to spend the next 15 to 20 years with a dog that didn't like me, and worse, a dog that I couldn't stand anymore. I did the best thing for both of us. I gave her up to people who will try to find a proper home for her and her brother. That's my biggest regret, her sweet little brother got dragged into it with her. He was adorable compared to her.

At least I didn't drop her off at the Arizona Humane Society where they probably would have put her to sleep. 

A lot of people don't realize that their local Humane Society euthanizes a huge amount of the dogs turned into them. I knew enough about that to find a no-kill animal shelter, but I did to have pay them a fee to take them. And they did have to be neutered and spayed and vaccinated first before they would take them as an owner surrender. Thank god she won't be having any puppies.


----------



## HollowHeaven

omg wow.
These puppies were't even 4 months old from what you've stated. You didn't even give them a chance, you just dumped them.

Looking a dog in the eyes is a THREAT. As far as that dog was concerned, you probably threatened her life, she tried to appease you and you're calling a 'cold fish of a dog'? That is just pathetic.

Did you even try to train them? Exercise them? Did you do ANYTHING to try and work with these dogs?
Somehow I doubt it.

And now you've went to another BYB and got another dog. Unless you magically, in that short amount of time, sought out a titling, health testing breeder. Who saw fit to sell you one of their pups after you dumped two in the pound.

Color is NOT indicative of pureness with this breed. I have no idea where you're even getting that from.

Overall, yes I agree with you. You should NEVER get another terrier or terrier mix again, because you can't handle the intelligence, the drive or the energy. 
But you really need to realize that just because YOU can't handle it, does not mean JRTs, or any other terrier for that matter, are bad dogs. It does not mean they are worthless or nightmares. There are plenty of people who own them and love them.
They were bred for a working purpose, they had an important job to do. Chihuahuas were primarily meat. 
Don't bad mouth a breed because you weren't equipped for it.


----------



## Sarah~

Doggengard said:


> Sorry, but there is no way I would pay $2500 for a dog.
> 
> From my perspective, she was a horrible dog for me, and I do not regret rehoming her to a no-kill animal shelter. Maybe someone will want that emotionally cold fish of a dog, that destructive and unruly dog. Not me.
> 
> Sometimes dogs turn out bad. People sometimes forget that dogs have personalities, too, just like people, and sometimes they clash with their owners. I wasn't going to spend the next 15 to 20 years with a dog that didn't like me, and worse, a dog that I couldn't stand anymore. I did the best thing for both of us. I gave her up to people who will try to find a proper home for her and her brother. That's my biggest regret, her sweet little brother got dragged into it with her. He was adorable compared to her.
> 
> At least I didn't drop her off at the Arizona Humane Society where they probably would have put her to sleep.
> 
> A lot of people don't realize that their local Humane Society euthanizes a huge amount of the dogs turned into them. I knew enough about that to find a no-kill animal shelter, but I did to have pay them a fee to take them. And they did have to be neutered and spayed and vaccinated first before they would take them as an owner surrender. Thank god she won't be having any puppies.


I have to agree with HollowHeaven on all points, after this post. You are saying horrible things about this dog, she is a PUPPY. Puppies are little monsters. I would NEVER have two at a time for my own sanity! 

Dogs are very perceptive... she may have been a "cold fish" because she could sense how much you disliked her. I'm actually a little bit shocked at all the hostility you have toward this puppy, at first I was thinking you made an honest mistake and learned from it, now I'm wishing you didn't have a dog at all. I hope your new dog always looks at you in the eyes so you don't dump her at the shelter.....


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## Doggengard

HollowHeaven said:


> omg wow.
> These puppies were't even 4 months old from what you've stated. You didn't even give them a chance, you just dumped them.
> 
> Looking a dog in the eyes is a THREAT. As far as that dog was concerned, you probably threatened her life, she tried to appease you and you're calling a 'cold fish of a dog'? That is just pathetic.
> 
> Did you even try to train them? Exercise them? Did you do ANYTHING to try and work with these dogs?
> Somehow I doubt it.
> 
> And now you've went to another BYB and got another dog. Unless you magically, in that short amount of time, sought out a titling, health testing breeder. Who saw fit to sell you one of their pups after you dumped two in the pound.
> 
> Color is NOT indicative of pureness with this breed. I have no idea where you're even getting that from.
> 
> Overall, yes I agree with you. You should NEVER get another terrier or terrier mix again, because you can't handle the intelligence, the drive or the energy.
> But you really need to realize that just because YOU can't handle it, does not mean JRTs, or any other terrier for that matter, are bad dogs. It does not mean they are worthless or nightmares. There are plenty of people who own them and love them.
> They were bred for a working purpose, they had an important job to do. Chihuahuas were primarily meat.
> Don't bad mouth a breed because you weren't equipped for it.


Did you even read this?

http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php


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## Doggengard

My advice, based upon my experience, for anyone who is looking for a chihuahua puppy to be a nice sweet little lap dog, but either is unable or unwilling to pay a huge amount of money for an AKC purebred, is to simply LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP!

If the puppy in the ad in the Arizona Republic newspaper classified section or the ad on craigslist looks anything like a Jack Russell Terrier, there is a very good possibility that thing is MIXED with a Jack Russell Terrier, and if you go ahead and buy that dog, you may be sorry. You may end up with a dog that acts more like a Jack Russell Terrier and less like a chihuahua.

The choice is yours. But do your homework before you buy one. Look at it carefully before you buy it. If it has Jack Russell Terrier genes in it, they will probably express themselves in the color and markings of the dog. It is one way to weed out potential candidates for your next puppy. 

And let me just say this. I am Mexican-American, and I live in a predominantly Mexican-American neighborhood in Phoenix, Arizona, where a large percentage of us have chihuahuas. We grow up with them. They are part of our heritage. And never in my entire life have I seen a chihuahua act like she did. Neither did any of my neighbors. They were the ones who complained about her barking, and they even said they had never heard a chihuahua bark sound like that. So, it's not just me who noticed how different she was from the typical chihuahua.


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## Doggengard

Sarah~ said:


> I have to agree with HollowHeaven on all points, after this post. You are saying horrible things about this dog, she is a PUPPY. Puppies are little monsters. I would NEVER have two at a time for my own sanity!
> 
> Dogs are very perceptive... she may have been a "cold fish" because she could sense how much you disliked her. I'm actually a little bit shocked at all the hostility you have toward this puppy, at first I was thinking you made an honest mistake and learned from it, now I'm wishing you didn't have a dog at all. I hope your new dog always looks at you in the eyes so you don't dump her at the shelter.....


I will always have a chihuahua. It is part of my Mexican-American heritage.

And my current chihuahua is just exactly what I wanted in a chihuahua-- a loving, sweet, adorable lap dog. She is just like the other chihuahuas I had in the past, the way a chihuahua should be. I expect to keep her for the rest of her life, probably 15 to 16 years or so. And as the pictures above show you, she looks NOTHING LIKE a Jack Russell Terrier.

What people like you don't realize is that dogs, just like people, have their own individual personalities. To think that I should keep a dog who does NOT like me for 15 to 20 years, would be like saying you and me should be room mates for the next 15 years. My guess is that you and I would have very different personalities and we would never be friends and certainly not want to live together under the same roof for the next 15 years. I don't think that dog would have wanted to live with me for the next 15 to 20 years, either. I personally think I did us both a favor. Maybe she can find someone who just adores Jack Russell Terrier-style chihuahuas?


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## jsca

She was a typical puppy, not a bad dog. Hopefully your next puppy comes 100% trained, has no energy and is a complete purse puppy but at the same time not a "cold fish" and doesn't bark and if it does barks in a certain tone up to your standards that sounds like a "chihuahua bark" (wtf? my parents own chis and all their barks sound quite differently).

I'm starting to withdraw my "no criticizing because it seems like you've learned" theory 

and yeah, after 7 months your second dogs ears could have stood up. ear stance, and color, have absolutely nothing to do with a breed like a chihuahua.


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## Doggengard

jsca said:


> She was a typical puppy, not a bad dog. Hopefully your next puppy comes 100% trained, has no energy and is a complete purse puppy but at the same time not a "cold fish" and doesn't bark and if it does barks in a certain tone up to your standards that sounds like a "chihuahua bark" (wtf? my parents own chis and all their barks sound quite differently).
> 
> I'm starting to withdraw my "no criticizing because it seems like you've learned" theory
> 
> and yeah, after 7 months your second dogs ears could have stood up. ear stance, and color, have absolutely nothing to do with a breed like a chihuahua.


What you keep forgetting is that I already owned two chihuahuas that lived to old age before this. I loved them all through their lives, until they eventually died of old age.

My current chihuahua is wonderful. I love her. She is nothing like the last one. I fully intend to keep this one through old age, just like the other two.


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## Doggengard

jsca said:


> ear stance, and color, have absolutely nothing to do with a breed like a chihuahua.


Yeah sure. Tell that my Mexican-American neighbors who have chihuahuas. They would laugh at you about that one.


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## Kyndall54

I don't feel the shelter should have rehomed them together. Honestly they'd probably make better companions for their adopters without one another. Litter mate syndrome is pretty awful.

$2500 isn't bad for a dog. Especially a more uncommon breed. You pay more for a well bred dog so you don't have to pay more later. If a breeder health tests and only breeds well tempered dogs than you won't as a buyer. Have to pay for hip dysplasia surgery at 3 years for your back yard bred Bernese mountain dog. You won't have to pay hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars for a behaviorist when your aussie shows signs of aggression towards people and kids.

I'm personally not in the position to pay $2500 for a dog at this point but most of the aussie breeders I like are around $1500. The adult collie I'm getting has every health test under the sun and she's only $300 from the breeder. You can still find well bred dogs at your price point and budget and save. I find it super worth it in the long run.


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## NicoleIsStoked

Doggengard said:


> I will always have a chihuahua. It is part of my Mexican-American heritage.
> 
> And my current chihuahua is just exactly what I wanted in a chihuahua-- a loving, sweet, adorable lap dog. She is just like the other chihuahuas I had in the past, the way a chihuahua should be. I expect to keep her for the rest of her life, probably 15 to 16 years or so. And as the pictures above show you, she looks NOTHING LIKE a Jack Russell Terrier.
> 
> What people like you don't realize is that dogs, just like people, have their own individual personalities. To think that I should keep a dog who does NOT like me for 15 to 20 years, would be like saying you and me should be room mates for the next 15 years. My guess is that you and I would have very different personalities and we would never be friends and certainly not want to live together under the same roof for the next 15 years. I don't think that dog would have wanted to live with me for the next 15 to 20 years, either. I personally think I did us both a favor. Maybe she can find someone who just adores Jack Russell Terrier-style chihuahuas?


Don't blame the poor puppy for not liking you. You don't exactly sound like the warmest person on the planet. Dogs see in us what we refuse to see in ourselves. That poor little pup obviously saw a cold-hearted, mean-spirited person who had no love, patience or compassion for her. That's your fault, not hers. 
And you need to stop slamming the JRT breed. Yes they are high energy. Yes they are high maintenance. Yes they are high drive. All the smartest breeds in the world are including border collies, aus shepherds, gsd, terriers, etc. That does not mean there's anything wrong with them. It means you're not a competent enough owner to handle a dog that is likely more intelligent than you. If jacks are such horrible dogs than how come so many are trained as actors in big movies? Because they're brilliant if you work with them. Go to YouTube and search for JUST JESSE and tell me that little fella is a horrible cold fish.


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## Amaryllis

The problem wasn't the dog. It was you. You got greedy and bought those puppies. You were ignorant and allowed littermate syndrome to develop. You were hateful to an innocent puppy. You dumped her and went right out to another BYB to get your perfect dog. Stop acting like the victim, the only victims here were the puppies.


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## BostonBullMama

Amaryllis said:


> The problem wasn't the dog. It was you. You got greedy and bought those puppies. You were ignorant and allowed littermate syndrome to develop. You were hateful to an innocent puppy. You dumped her and went right out to another BYB to get your perfect dog. Stop acting like the victim, the only victims here were the puppies.


TOTALLY agree... Ugh, makes me sick.


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## Sarah~

Doggengard said:


> I will always have a chihuahua. It is part of my Mexican-American heritage.
> 
> And my current chihuahua is just exactly what I wanted in a chihuahua-- a loving, sweet, adorable lap dog. She is just like the other chihuahuas I had in the past, the way a chihuahua should be. I expect to keep her for the rest of her life, probably 15 to 16 years or so. And as the pictures above show you, she looks NOTHING LIKE a Jack Russell Terrier.
> 
> What people like you don't realize is that dogs, just like people, have their own individual personalities. To think that I should keep a dog who does NOT like me for 15 to 20 years, would be like saying you and me should be room mates for the next 15 years. My guess is that you and I would have very different personalities and we would never be friends and certainly not want to live together under the same roof for the next 15 years. I don't think that dog would have wanted to live with me for the next 15 to 20 years, either. I personally think I did us both a favor. Maybe she can find someone who just adores Jack Russell Terrier-style chihuahuas?


Ok, that's what I'm talking about. The way you post is coming off really rude and judgemental. NO ONE is saying you should be forced to live with a dog that isn't the right fit. It's the way you talk about the PUPPY like she's good for nothing, mostly because of her breed. You didn't give her much of a chance to show you what kind of dog she could be.


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## KodiBarracuda

Doggengard said:


> Yeah sure. Tell that my Mexican-American neighbors who have chihuahuas. They would laugh at you about that one.


What does being Mexican American have to do with owning and knowing information about Chihuahuas?
I am of German Russian (Germans from Russia) heritage, that doesn't mean I know anything about German breeds... Heck, I could own many German breeds and still know very little. 

And is it really necessary to bad mouth Jack russels just because they aren't right for you? How is that ok?


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## Doggengard

KodiBarracuda said:


> What does being Mexican American have to do with owning and knowing information about Chihuahuas?
> I am of German Russian (Germans from Russia) heritage, that doesn't mean I know anything about German breeds... Heck, I could own many German breeds and still know very little.
> 
> And is it really necessary to bad mouth Jack russels just because they aren't right for you? How is that ok?


Well, unlike you, Mexicans didn't immigrate to this continent and then abandon our old heritage and assimilate into a new culture. We've always been here, and though artificial borders were imposed upon us, we kept our heritage very solid and strong. The chihuahua has always been part of our culture. Phoenix, Arizona, is our opinion merely northern Mexico. Or at least it once was. When I was growing up in Phoenix, chihuahuas were just part of daily life. Most of my friends had them. They are one of the most common breeds in Hispanic areas like Arizona. So people on here are trying to tell me that I know nothing about chihuahuas and that it's okay if a chihuahua mix puppy doesn't look like regular chihuahua, it's okay if its ears don't stand up, it's okay if it acts nothing like a regular chihuahua. I know they're wrong.

I merely want to warn other people out that they should beware of a chihuahua mix puppy if it looks like a Jack Russell Terrier. They may not get what they wanted. So don't be fooled by those exotic colors. They probably mean that puppy has some Jack Russell Terrier genes in it.


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## Doggengard

NicoleIsStoked said:


> Don't blame the poor puppy for not liking you. You don't exactly sound like the warmest person on the planet. Dogs see in us what we refuse to see in ourselves. That poor little pup obviously saw a cold-hearted, mean-spirited person who had no love, patience or compassion for her. That's your fault, not hers.
> And you need to stop slamming the JRT breed. Yes they are high energy. Yes they are high maintenance. Yes they are high drive. All the smartest breeds in the world are including border collies, aus shepherds, gsd, terriers, etc. That does not mean there's anything wrong with them. It means you're not a competent enough owner to handle a dog that is likely more intelligent than you. If jacks are such horrible dogs than how come so many are trained as actors in big movies? Because they're brilliant if you work with them. Go to YouTube and search for JUST JESSE and tell me that little fella is a horrible cold fish.


Now you're making personal attacks against me. That's very mature. The Jack Russell Terrier Club of America is saying the same thing I am saying...


http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php


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## Doggengard

Sarah~ said:


> Ok, that's what I'm talking about. The way you post is coming off really rude and judgemental. NO ONE is saying you should be forced to live with a dog that isn't the right fit. It's the way you talk about the PUPPY like she's good for nothing, mostly because of her breed. You didn't give her much of a chance to show you what kind of dog she could be.


Talk about judgmental! That's what all the people attacking me have been like.

I'm just trying to warn people out there to avoid my mistake by paying attention to what the puppies look like. Genes do control what a resulting puppy looks like.


----------



## Doggengard

Kyndall54 said:


> I don't feel the shelter should have rehomed them together. Honestly they'd probably make better companions for their adopters without one another. Litter mate syndrome is pretty awful.
> 
> $2500 isn't bad for a dog. Especially a more uncommon breed. You pay more for a well bred dog so you don't have to pay more later. If a breeder health tests and only breeds well tempered dogs than you won't as a buyer. Have to pay for hip dysplasia surgery at 3 years for your back yard bred Bernese mountain dog. You won't have to pay hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars for a behaviorist when your aussie shows signs of aggression towards people and kids.
> 
> I'm personally not in the position to pay $2500 for a dog at this point but most of the aussie breeders I like are around $1500. The adult collie I'm getting has every health test under the sun and she's only $300 from the breeder. You can still find well bred dogs at your price point and budget and save. I find it super worth it in the long run.


Okay, there is no way I would ever spend that much money on a dog.

My advice is not for rich people who can afford to spend money like it's going out of style. My advice is for the average person who will end up buying their dog from craigslist or from a newspaper like The Arizona Republic classified ad section. I'm saying, you can tell a lot based upon what the puppy looks like.

If people would stop buying the puppies that look like she did, stop buying the chihuahua puppies whose ears don't stand up, then eventually the corrupted gene pool would be cleaned out and the chihuahua puppies would go back to looking like they are supposed to look, and acting like they should act.

Now I know better. I will never fall for that again. If the prospective puppy in the future doesn't look the way I want it to look, and if its ears aren't already standing up, I will not buy it. And one more thing I now do is I get down on the ground and see if the puppy will walk over to me, sit in my lap, and look me in the eyes voluntarily before I buy it. If it doesn't do that, I don't want it.


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## cookieface

Doggengard said:


> What people like you don't realize is that dogs, just like people, have their own individual personalities. To think that I should keep a dog who does NOT like me for 15 to 20 years, would be like saying you and me should be room mates for the next 15 years. My guess is that you and I would have very different personalities and we would never be friends and certainly not want to live together under the same roof for the next 15 years. I don't think that dog would have wanted to live with me for the next 15 to 20 years, either. I personally think I did us both a favor. Maybe she can find someone who just adores Jack Russell Terrier-style chihuahuas?


What "people like us" realize is that you don't buy two puppies for $40 from craigslist and expect to get well-bred, good examples of the breed.



Amaryllis said:


> The problem wasn't the dog. It was you. You got greedy and bought those puppies. You were ignorant and allowed littermate syndrome to develop. You were hateful to an innocent puppy. You dumped her and went right out to another BYB to get your perfect dog. Stop acting like the victim, the only victims here were the puppies.


It's always the puppies who suffer. 



Doggengard said:


> Talk about judgmental! That's what all the people attacking me have been like.
> 
> I'm just trying to warn people out there to avoid my mistake by paying attention to what the puppies look like. Genes do control what a resulting puppy looks like.


Looks are always a reliable indicator of breed or background. If you want to be sure you're buying a specific breed, find a reputable breeder. We can help with that.


----------



## cookieface

Doggengard said:


> Okay, there is no way I would ever spend that much money on a dog.
> 
> My advice is not for rich people who can afford to spend money like it's going out of style. My advice is for the average person who will end up buying their dog from craigslist or from a newspaper like The Arizona Republic classified ad section.


I'm an average person, first time dog owner, not rich by any stretch of the imagination. My dog is from a highly respected, reputable breeder who can tell me that Katie points just like her great-grandmother and provide me with information about any health issue that has appeared in her lines. 



> I'm saying, you can tell a lot based upon what the puppy looks like.


No, you can't.


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## Doggengard

Sarah~ said:


> I have to agree with HollowHeaven on all points, after this post. You are saying horrible things about this dog, she is a PUPPY. Puppies are little monsters. I would NEVER have two at a time for my own sanity!
> 
> Dogs are very perceptive... she may have been a "cold fish" because she could sense how much you disliked her. I'm actually a little bit shocked at all the hostility you have toward this puppy, at first I was thinking you made an honest mistake and learned from it, now I'm wishing you didn't have a dog at all. I hope your new dog always looks at you in the eyes so you don't dump her at the shelter.....



If you had experienced what I experienced with her, you would probably feel differently.

So many people on here feel like the dog can never be at fault for anything. 

She was the wrong fit for me.

Even when I first got her she would never come when called, and when I tried to pick her up she would run away, hide under furniture, when I tried to pet her she would back up out of reach. If I managed to pick her up she would struggle the whole time I tried to hold her and pet her. The only way I could catch her was to sit down on the floor with her brother and pet him, and then she would try to get to him and in doing so she came close enough for me to grab her, but then she immediately tried to get away and run away after that. Her brother was so much nicer than her.


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## Doggengard

cookieface said:


> I'm an average person, first time dog owner, not rich by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> *Average? So, how much did you pay for that dog? The previous poster to whom I was responding was talking about spending thousands of dollars on a dog. Does that sound like something the average person can afford to pay for a dog?*
> 
> My dog is from a highly respected, reputable breeder who can tell me that Katie points just like her great-grandmother and provide me with information about any health issue that has appeared in her lines.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't.


In my experience, yes you can.


----------



## Doggengard

cookieface said:


> Looks are always a reliable indicator of breed or background. If you want to be sure you're buying a specific breed, find a reputable breeder. We can help with that.


I already found what I was looking for, and she only cost me $250 this time around...


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## cookieface

Price wasn't my primary concern when finding a dog.


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## NicoleIsStoked

Doggengard said:


> Average? So, how much did you pay for that dog? The previous poster to whom I was responding was talking about spending thousands of dollars on a dog. Does that sound like something the average person can afford to pay for a dog?


lol me? rich? HA! I wish. As it turns out, I work retail. I make only slightly above minimum wage and have been busting my hump at the same cruddy job for 3 years. But I realize that the initial price of a well bred puppy is nothing in comparison to the amount you will spend on vet bills over the lifetime of owning a sick dog. and i speak from experience. the dog i had before was a medium-large sized mixed breed purchased ignorantly from a pet store, so he most likely came from a puppy mill situation like you experienced. he was $150 and the best thing that ever happened to me. but he wound up having several very serious medical conditions including hypothyroidism, allergies, arthritis, and ultimately terminal liver failure. in his 13 years on this planet, he cost my single income family nearly $25000 in vet bills, medication and prescription diets. and after all that, we still never abandoned him, because although we got far more than we bargained for, he was family and we would have done anything for him. including reducing our own quality of life to better his.
but yes, this time i scoped out a great breeder who charges $2500 for her puppies. both the dam and sire are champions and have been extensively health tested. i also have a 4 generation pedigree and a health guarantee to go along with it. my dog is two years old now and has never had to go to the vet outside of his standard vaccines and neuter. you never know when something horrible will happen that can cost a couple thousand dollars. if the initial price of a puppy is an issue than how can you be sure you'll be able to take care of it in the case of an emergency?


----------



## Chichan

NicoleIsStoked said:


> lol me? rich? HA! I wish. As it turns out, I work retail. I make only slightly above minimum wage and have been busting my hump at the same cruddy job for 3 years. But I realize that the initial price of a well bred puppy is nothing in comparison to the amount you will spend on vet bills over the lifetime of owning a sick dog. and i speak from experience. the dog i had before was a medium-large sized mixed breed purchased ignorantly from a pet store, so he most likely came from a puppy mill situation like you experienced. he was $150 and the best thing that ever happened to me. but he wound up having several very serious medical conditions including hypothyroidism, allergies, arthritis, and ultimately terminal liver failure. in his 13 years on this planet, he cost my single income family nearly $25000 in vet bills, medication and prescription diets. and after all that, we still never abandoned him, because although we got far more than we bargained for, he was family and we would have done anything for him. including reducing our own quality of life to better his.
> but yes, this time i scoped out a great breeder who charges $2500 for her puppies. both the dam and sire are champions and have been extensively health tested. i also have a 4 generation pedigree and a health guarantee to go along with it. my dog is two years old now and has never had to go to the vet outside of his standard vaccines and neuter. you never know when something horrible will happen that can cost a couple thousand dollars. *if the initial price of a puppy is an issue than how can you be sure you'll be able to take care of it in the case of an emergency?*


Cannot stress this enough.
Poor breeding will cost you longer in the long run and vet bills are expensive. 
You don't have to be rich to afford a well bred puppy. 
Just wait and save up your money first.


----------



## Kyndall54

Just because a dog looks like a chihuahua doesn't mean anything. Okay so if it looks like a chihuahua, so what? Does the mean you can tell it has a bad patella? A congenital heart defect? Hip dysplasia down the line? People here don't need to be warned to not buy purebred dogs off craigslist because no one here goes to craigslist to get a good example of any breed. Many from here have adopted off craigslist because they fell in love with a dog, and because they were prepared to pay down the line if things went wrong.

I'm also not super rich. My fiancée is a student and I work two jobs. I don't throw money away. I prioritize it and decide what's worth spending on. Nicole's story is a good reference of what buying a poor bred dog will be like.


----------



## BostonBullMama

I'm another who's not super rich and had my dog somewhat land in my lap. 
I wanted an english bulldog, I got a boston bulldog. - oh well, so far he's the best dog I've ever had (though I really have no other dogs to compare him to  ). 
My fiance works for the school board and city and I'm a stay at home Mom. We live in an apartment on what's considered the "poor side" of our city and we got Toby for free. - But not really... in the first year we had him he was in and out of the vets and cost us probably over a thousand dollars, and he was only a puppy! 
We weren't even looking for a dog when Toby fell into our laps and suddenly we had this money pit pooch. 

But we stuck with him because when we took him we made a promise to him that we would be his family. So even though he was a landshark who didn't quite have control of his bladder, and despite the chunk of money we sunk into him, we came out of it all with a really good 18 month old dog who probably suits our family better than any dog could in our living situation. 

You get the dog you need, not the dog you want. 

It was really selfish of you to decide you liked the coloring of these "chihuahua's" and then as soon as you decided they must be mixed, they were disposable to you. That's not family.. that's not friendship... you say the dogs wouldn't look you in the eyes? It's because they KNEW they didn't matter to you! You tossed them aside as soon as you decided they were mutts. People like you, make me sick. I cannot stand people who get dogs and decide that the dog isn't good enough because the discovered it's not the breed they thought they got, or not the temperament of the lab next door, or isn't vicious enough, or whatever... SICK. 

I'm not a rehoming kind of person, but in some cases - whatever. This case? I have to wonder what made you think you even deserve another chihuahua if you'd be so willing to kick it to the curb should you find out there's a slight chance it could be a mutt.


----------



## Sarah~

Kyndall54 said:


> Many from here have adopted off craigslist because they fell in love with a dog, and because they were prepared to pay down the line if things went wrong.


That's how I got Xena. Just a little mutt puppy I saw on craigslist and had to have. We bonded immediately she is one of the best, most affectionate dogs I've ever met. She is also the most stubborn, difficult dog I've ever had lol and everyone is already probably pretty familiar with her health issues. But I pay every penny of her medical bills she is worth it. And she doesn't even look at me in the eyes all the time


----------



## Amaryllis

Doggengard said:


> If you had experienced what I experienced with her, you would probably feel differently.
> 
> So many people on here feel like the dog can never be at fault for anything.
> 
> She was the wrong fit for me.
> 
> Even when I first got her she would never come when called, and when I tried to pick her up she would run away, hide under furniture, when I tried to pet her she would back up out of reach. If I managed to pick her up she would struggle the whole time I tried to hold her and pet her. The only way I could catch her was to sit down on the flooyr with her brother and pet him, and then she would try to get to him and in doing so she came close enough for me to grab her, but then she immediately tried to get away and run away after that. Her brother was so much nicer than her.


What, exactly, did the baby dog do wrong, other than not fulfilling your every desire without training? That evil little baby, not recalling without training, not acting like a breed she wasn't, not psychically guessing what you wanted. Bad, bad dog. 

I feel truly sorry for you. The best dogs in the world are the ones we least expect, or even want. But you'll never know that.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Doggengard said:


> This is from the JRTCA's own website:
> 
> http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php
> 
> "Jack Russells ...
> ... are first and foremost hunting dogs. The traits and skills that make them excellent hunting dogs (i.e., digging, barking, aggressive nature, ability to follow scent) are often interpreted as bad habits that cause people to give them up.
> 
> ... are bred to go underground, following scent to locate and bark at quarry until they are dug down to or the quarry bolts. If they do not have an outlet for their natural instincts, they will invent new and fun jobs for themselves, which frequently include guardian of the world and/or their possessions and family, chasing cars, hunting birds, bugs or leaves, or endlessly digging in the soil.
> 
> ... are a big dog in a little body. They have the same need (or more!) for exercise as a much larger dog... and the mentality to match -- they think they are at least 150 pounds, and are fearless, often challenging other dogs three times their size.
> 
> ... are often aggressive with other dogs. Same-sex aggression and aggression towards other breeds of dogs is well documented with this terrier. It is strongly recommended that no more than two Jack Russells (of opposite sex only) ever be permitted to stay together unattended.
> 
> ... are NOT a non-shedding breed! All coat types shed! Smooth coats shed the most, dropping hair continuously year round. Rough coats maintain the guard and dead coat, requiring manual shedding a few times a year. The broken coat is an intermediary coat, between the two types.
> 
> ... require firm, consistent discipline. They are extremely intelligent, continue to test their limits throughout their life. More often than not, train their owners before the owner knows what has happened! This ability to train their owners can include displays of aggressive behavior. Their assertive nature must be understood and handled properly!
> 
> ... can become very possessive of their owner or a favorite member of the family or of what they consider to be their personal property if allowed to do so to the point of showing aggressive protective behavior that must be controlled from an early age.
> 
> ... are commonly known to harass, injure or kill other small pets, such as cats, birds, rabbits, mice, rats, etc., simply due to their strong natural hunting instinct. Raising a puppy with a cat does not guarantee the cat's life-long safety!
> 
> ... remain active well into their 15-year-plus life span; their need for activity and desire to hunt continues for their entire lifetime. Untrained, unsupervised dogs rarely meet their life expectancy.
> 
> ... require at least basic obedience training. The dog's life may depend on it! Even well trained dogs will be tempted to chase something interesting, or even disappear into a hole while you are not looking. Off-lead is always a dangerous situation for a Jack Russell unless in a safe environment with experienced JR owners.
> 
> ... absolutely need a securely fenced yard! Jack Russells will roam due to their hunting instincts.... even if left in an unsecured for a few minutes! You can let them out every day for three years with no trouble....but one day they will disappear and may never come back. Many JR's have been killed by cars by darting into the road in pursuit of a squirrel, cat, etc. They can also dig under, climb or jump over fences; some can climb trees and any height chain link fencing.
> 
> ... can be very destructive if left unattended and unemployed! Most behavioral problems are due to a lack of companionship, discipline, activity and exercise. If you've only seen perfect, well-behaved JR's, they are ones that were lucky enough to be exercised, well socialized, and trained.
> 
> ... are country dogs. When made to live in a city or suburban-type environment, their needs and instincts do not change. It would be unreasonable to expect them to be anything other than what they are genetically bred to be -- a serious hunting dog. Your lifestyle must be adjusted to meet their needs; they must have jobs to perform -- an outlet for their considerable energy and intelligence.
> 
> ... are NOT recommended as apartment or condo dogs. They need a great deal of exercise and outdoor activity, and are usually too loud for such high-density living. They need room to run; leash walking does not satisfy their boundless energy. Unless your schedule permits many hours at home and a lot of outdoor activity, with a safe place the terrier can run, this is not the dog for you. MANY rescues come from apartments, condos, or homes where the owners work away from the home for long periods of time.
> 
> ... will NOT TOLERATE even unintended mistreatment from a child. They will not put up with typical child handling such as pulling of ears, tails, etc., or taking or "sharing" of the dog's bones, food, toys, etc. They are very assertive and demanding, and never still... jumping all over whoever will allow it. Jack Russells are not recommended for households with children under the age of six unless you are previously experienced with this feisty little bundle of energy.
> 
> ... are NOT as they are portrayed in the movies, on TV, or other forms of media. Those dogs are professionally trained and handled, and are very obedient only for VERY short periods of time. Celebrity dogs have their needs met by the trainer, and perform their jobs accordingly."


So? I'm familiar with the JRT. I have one. Just because those traits don't appeal to you, doesn't mean JRT's are bad dogs. As I mentioned, they are a very popular breed, but not a breed for everyone.

Also, a JRT's ears can stand up. It's a fault, but it does happen.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Doggengard said:


> If you had experienced what I experienced with her, you would probably feel differently.
> 
> So many people on here feel like the dog can never be at fault for anything.
> 
> *She was the wrong fit for me.*
> 
> Even when I first got her she would never come when called, and when I tried to pick her up she would run away, hide under furniture, when I tried to pet her she would back up out of reach. If I managed to pick her up she would struggle the whole time I tried to hold her and pet her. The only way I could catch her was to sit down on the floor with her brother and pet him, and then she would try to get to him and in doing so she came close enough for me to grab her, but then she immediately tried to get away and run away after that. Her brother was so much nicer than her.


Yes, she was. That doesn't mean she was a bad dog, or that she had anything wrong with her, or that JRT's are bad. It means this particular dog didn't suit you. Big difference.

Also, everything you have described here is normal puppy behaviour. I train puppies all the time. None of the things mentioned above would ring any alarm bells for me. You've had two dogs previously, of a completely different breed. Your expectations were most likely way off. You expected chi traits and got JRT traits. You didn't want JRT traits. That's fair enough. But that doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the puppy.


----------



## Sarah~

lil_fuzzy said:


> Yes, she was. That doesn't mean she was a bad dog, or that she had anything wrong with her, or that JRT's are bad. It means this particular dog didn't suit you. Big difference.
> 
> Also, everything you have described here is normal puppy behaviour. I train puppies all the time. None of the things mentioned above would ring any alarm bells for me. You've had two dogs previously, of a completely different breed. Your expectations were most likely way off. You expected chi traits and got JRT traits. You didn't want JRT traits. That's fair enough. But that doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the puppy.


Great post


----------



## Kayota

first, i would never buy a dog from a breeder that advertises on craigslist or in the paper in the first place.
second, you are aware that the chihuahua breed standard allows for any color or markings and that dogs with those markings appear in the show ring right?
third, dont you dare act like chihuahua/terrier mixes are these awful dogs. mine is the best dog i have ever had. and yes she was crazy... as a puppy. because thats how puppies are. now shes a well adjusted, well behaved adult because i did a little thing called training. im really glad she didnt end up with someone like you. she was also supposed to be purebred but the thing is i didnt care. i could tell on sight she wasnt but i didnt care one bit and im glad for it.


----------



## fga&m

Yikes! This is getting heated


----------



## Doggengard

lil_fuzzy said:


> Yes, she was. That doesn't mean she was a bad dog, or that she had anything wrong with her, or that JRT's are bad. It means this particular dog didn't suit you. Big difference.
> 
> Also, everything you have described here is normal puppy behaviour. I train puppies all the time. None of the things mentioned above would ring any alarm bells for me. You've had two dogs previously, of a completely different breed. Your expectations were most likely way off. *You expected chi traits and got JRT traits. You didn't want JRT traits.* That's fair enough. But that doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the puppy.


Finally! Someone gets some of what I have been trying to say.

*I expected chihuahua traits, but ended up with Jack Russell Terrier traits*, and I knew that this was NOT what I wanted, so in my opinion, I did the best thing possible for them: I gave them up to no-kill rescue shelter which would find someone who would want them. 

Believe me, there were many other ways this could have gone down, and you know what I mean. The least of which, they could have ended up at the Arizona Humane Society where over 50% of owner surrendered animals get euthanized almost immediately once the former owner leaves the room.

And once again, if I could have just given up the JRT girl and kept the much sweeter, much nicer Rat Terrier boy puppy, I would have. But the rescue group demanded both of them at the same time.

But, things have a way of working themselves out for the better.

I am very happy with my new chihuahua puppy. She is exactly what I wanted. I probably won't be looking for a new chihuahua puppy until the year 2030 or so. I wonder if craigslist will exist in the year 2030?

My point is still to warn people out there who will not be spending thousands of dollars on the purchase of their next chihuahua, and who will be using something like craigslist or the Arizona Republic newspaper classified ad section, LOOK OUT!!!! If that puppy doesn't look quite right to you, there's probably a reason, and you might be sorry you got it. Those exotic colors are warning you that there might be some undesirable genes in those puppies.


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## HollowHeaven

I'm still wondering where you're getting that one is a rat terrier mix and the other is a JRT mix. Lol
Looks like you just picked two breeds based on color, which, again, is not a good indicator of breed.


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## Kayota

Doggengard said:


> Those exotic colors are warning you that there might be some undesirable genes in those puppies.


Again, those colors are far from "exotic" for chihuahuas.

http://www.reliablek9.com/sitebuilder/images/pbwtxt-304x323.jpg
http://www.reliablek9.com/sitebuilder/images/karasitpretty-322x332.jpg
http://www.picassochis.com/caramiacca3SM.JPG -Champion
http://www.picassochis.com/Tiffanyfirstpoints.jpg -Champion
http://www.picassochis.com/abby1-jan2013sm.jpg -Champion
http://www.picassochis.com/Cowboy/cowboy8yrstand.jpg
http://www.chihuahuadreams.com/images/graphics/teddy9.jpg
http://www.chihuahuadreams.com/images/graphics/lucy.jpg
http://www.bluechisranch.com/wpimages/wp2dcfb942_05_06.jpg
http://www.bluechisranch.com/wpimages/wpc7521e55_05_06.jpg
http://www.bluechisranch.com/wpimages/wp23e8a189_05_06.jpg
http://www.teresaschihuahuas.com/Ventura_dogshow.jpg -Champion
http://imageprocessor.websimages.co....indianachihuahuas.com/banditshowpic222-1.jpg -Champion


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Doggengard said:


> Finally! Someone gets some of what I have been trying to say.
> 
> *I expected chihuahua traits, but ended up with Jack Russell Terrier traits*, and I knew that this was NOT what I wanted, so in my opinion, I did the best thing possible for them: I gave them up to no-kill rescue shelter which would find someone who would want them.
> 
> Believe me, there were many other ways this could have gone down, and you know what I mean. The least of which, they could have ended up at the Arizona Humane Society where over 50% of owner surrendered animals get euthanized almost immediately once the former owner leaves the room.
> 
> And once again, if I could have just given up the JRT girl and kept the much sweeter, much nicer Rat Terrier boy puppy, I would have. But the rescue group demanded both of them at the same time.
> 
> But, things have a way of working themselves out for the better.
> 
> I am very happy with my new chihuahua puppy. She is exactly what I wanted. I probably won't be looking for a new chihuahua puppy until the year 2030 or so. I wonder if craigslist will exist in the year 2030?
> 
> My point is still to warn people out there who will not be spending thousands of dollars on the purchase of their next chihuahua, and who will be using something like craigslist or the Arizona Republic newspaper classified ad section, LOOK OUT!!!! If that puppy doesn't look quite right to you, there's probably a reason, and you might be sorry you got it. Those exotic colors are warning you that there might be some undesirable genes in those puppies.



I didn't realise that's what you were trying to say. To me it looked like the whole thread has been about proving that the JRT is a bad breed and pointing out everything that's wrong with the breed.


----------



## Kayota

To me it looked like you were saying the same about Chi/Terrier mixes in general... Considering I have one who I love very much I was just a little offended.


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## fourdogs

Those puppies were just babies... They go through several developmental stages throughout their first year, and their personalities shift and change. You hardly gave them any time to settle in and you gave them no commitment to training (sign up for classes!). 

What will you do now when this new puppy hits a developmental stage when she decides to blow you off completely (normal!)? 

Having a dog takes work to form them in to polite, obedient, happy dogs. Sometimes YEARS of work. I hope you are able to commit to this one.


----------



## Sarah~

Kayota said:


> To me it looked like you were saying the same about Chi/Terrier mixes in general... Considering I have one who I love very much I was just a little offended.


Yeah there was a bunch of breed bashing in between the "the dog was not the right fit for me". More like "it's not the right fit for anyone beware the chi/terriers"...


----------



## ireth0

Better advice would be 'Don't try to buy purebred dogs from craigslist.' rather than 'Don't buy Chi's that look weird because you might get a JRT mix and WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT THAT."

Throwing in the racial/cultural bashing of Germans back there probably didn't help your case either OP, just saying.


----------



## Sarah~

ireth0 said:


> Better advice would be 'Don't try to buy purebred dogs from craigslist.' rather than 'Don't buy Chi's that look weird because you might get a JRT mix and WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT THAT."


Omg as I read the last line I choked on my coffee that was hilarious the way I read it in my head lol!


----------



## cookieface

ireth0 said:


> Better advice would be 'Don't try to buy purebred dogs from craigslist.' rather than 'Don't buy Chi's that look weird because you might get a JRT mix and WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT THAT."
> 
> Throwing the racial/cultural bashing of Germans back there probably didn't help your case either OP, just saying.


Agreed! Also, you can't always identify a dog's breed by looks (pumpkin pie litter, anyone?). If you want a specific breed, find a reputable breeder. If you're adaptable and willing to work with what you get, find a good shelter or rescue. No matter what, don't buy a dog from a breeder on craigslist (or other similar classifieds).


----------



## HollowHeaven

lil_fuzzy said:


> I didn't realise that's what you were trying to say. To me it looked like the whole thread has been about proving that the JRT is a bad breed and pointing out everything that's wrong with the breed.


It is.
Otherwise this would say something along the lines of 'I wasn't prepared for a JRT', right from the start.
Instead of OMG DOGS MIGHT BE MIXED WITH TERRIERS AND THEY'RE SO POINTLESS

That is the whole vibe I got from this. I don't even like JRTs and I'm bothered by the ignorance and running around of this whole thread


----------



## Doggengard

cookieface said:


> Agreed! Also, you can't always identify a dog's breed by looks (pumpkin pie litter, anyone?). If you want a specific breed, find a reputable breeder. If you're adaptable and willing to work with what you get, find a good shelter or rescue. *No matter what, don't buy a dog from a breeder on craigslist (or other similar classifieds)*.


Don't buy a dog from craigslist (or other similar classifieds).... _*UNLESS YOU WANT TO SAVE MONEY.*_

Like I said before, I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on a chihuahua, when there are perfectly good chihuahuas for sale at reasonable prices. You just have to be picky and watch out for ones that don't look right because you may end up with something you don't want. 

The current chihuahua I have was from an ad on craigslist, and she is just exactly what I wanted. Her ears were already standing up all the way when I bought her, and she looks exactly what a chihuahua should look like. And correspondingly, she acts just like a chihuahua should act like. The way a dog looks does indicate what genes are expressing themselves.

People commenting on here keep forgetting that I have already had two chihuahuas BEFORE all this happened, and I raised them up from tiny little puppies all the way to old age and finally death. So it's not like I don't know what a chihuahua puppy should act like.

And here is a picture of my current chihuahua, from when I first got her. Isn't she wonderful? Just look at her!


----------



## BostonBullMama

Doggengard said:


> Don't buy a dog from craigslist (or other similar classifieds).... _*UNLESS YOU WANT TO SAVE MONEY.*_
> 
> Like I said before, I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on a chihuahua, when there are perfectly good chihuahuas for sale at reasonable prices. You just have to be picky and watch out for ones that don't look right because you may end up with something you don't want.
> 
> The current chihuahua I have was from an ad on craigslist, and she is just exactly what I wanted. Her ears were already standing up all the way when I bought her, and she looks exactly what a chihuahua should look like. And correspondingly, she acts just like a chihuahua should act like. The way a dog looks does indicate what genes are expressing themselves.
> 
> People commenting on here keep forgetting that I have already had two chihuahuas BEFORE all this happened, and I raised them up from tiny little puppies all the way to old age and finally death. So it's not like I don't know what a chihuahua puppy should act like.
> 
> And here is a picture of my current chihuahua, from when I first got her. Isn't she wonderful? Just look at her!


Oh just give it a break already! Seriously. 
This thread is going no where. You have restated your points repeatedly. The horse is dead. Good grief.

And NO, you are 100% totally and utterly wrong. That saying 'don't judge a book by it's cover' - well don't judge a dog by it's colors! Seriously! There are some CRAZY mixed breed dogs on here, one lady had a dog who looked like a papillon born from a friggen maltese!! So no - LOOKS ARE NOT A TRIED AND TRUE WAY OF DETERMINING BREED.


----------



## ireth0

Doggengard said:


> Don't buy a dog from craigslist (or other similar classifieds).... _*UNLESS YOU WANT TO SAVE MONEY.*_
> 
> Like I said before, I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on a chihuahua, when there are perfectly good chihuahuas for sale at reasonable prices. You just have to be picky and watch out for ones that don't look right because you may end up with something you don't want.
> 
> The current chihuahua I have was from an ad on craigslist, and she is just exactly what I wanted. Her ears were already standing up all the way when I bought her, and she looks exactly what a chihuahua should look like. And correspondingly, she acts just like a chihuahua should act like. The way a dog looks does indicate what genes are expressing themselves.
> 
> People commenting on here keep forgetting that I have already had two chihuahuas BEFORE all this happened, and I raised them up from tiny little puppies all the way to old age and finally death. So it's not like I don't know what a chihuahua puppy should act like.
> 
> And here is a picture of my current chihuahua, from when I first got her. Isn't she wonderful? Just look at her!


If saving money is a concern than I would suggest going to a shelter or breed rescue, not resorting to supporting the unethical practice of BYB'ing.


----------



## Kyllobernese

What bothers me is that what did you expect to get for $40.00? It just sounds like you are mad because the great "bargain" did not turn out like you expected. You just jumped at the chance to get a couple of cute "Chihuahuas" cheap and when they did not turn out like you expected you want to blame everyone else, even the puppies because you think they are not pure Chihuahua, which they may or may not be. They are not bad pups, just not what you expected. I am glad the Shelter wanted both of them as I am sure you would not have been satisfied with either of them and they must have seen your attitude towards the pups. I am glad the puppy you have now seems to have lived up to your expectations.


----------



## Doggengard

lil_fuzzy said:


> I didn't realise that's what you were trying to say. To me it looked like the whole thread has been about proving that the JRT is a bad breed and pointing out everything that's wrong with the breed.


Well, yes, I do not like the way JRTs act. They are not the right dog for me, and I pointed out why they are not the right dog for me. And I warned people who are looking for a little lap dog chihuahua, if it looks like it has JRT genes expressing themselves in the puppy, they should LOOK OUT because you may end up with a dog that is not right for you.

And is not like I am the only one who is saying these things about the JRT breed... the official website for that breed literally says they are "bad dogs"...

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2005/12/bad-dog-article-for-prospective.html 


and 


http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php


If your own organization is calling them "bad dogs" then what's up with that?!

Explain to me why your own organization, The Jack Russell Terrier Club of America is calling them "bad dogs" ?

Why are they saying that?!


----------



## ireth0

Doggengard said:


> Well, yes, I do not like the way JRTs act. They are not the right dog for me, and I pointed out why they are not the right dog for me. And I warned people who are looking for a little lap dog chihuahua, if it looks like it has JRT genes expressing themselves in the puppy, they should LOOK OUT because you may end up with a dog that is not right for you.
> 
> And is not like I am the only one who is saying these things about the JRT breed... the official website for that breed literally says they are "bad dogs"...
> 
> http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2005/12/bad-dog-article-for-prospective.html
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php
> 
> 
> If your own organization is calling them "bad dogs" then what's up with that?!
> 
> Explain to me why your own organization, The Jack Russell Terrier Club of America is calling them "bad dogs" ?
> 
> Why are they saying that?!


Did you even read the second article you linked to? It just says that many common JRT traits can be overwhelming and they are not a breed for everyone. It's basically just saying to ensure you're prepared due to their high energy and drive levels and not expecting a lap dog, no where does it say the breed is bad.

The first article is a blog post written by a random person, hardly an authority piece.


----------



## Doggengard

ireth0 said:


> If saving money is a concern than I would suggest going to a shelter or breed rescue, not resorting to supporting the unethical practice of BYB'ing.


But someone else on this thread already said that they would never let me adopt a chihuahua if they worked at a rescue group. It is that kind of attitude that would keep me from every even thinking of adopting a pet from a rescue group.

Also, rescue group adoption applications typically have some clause that states the dog is really never truly yours to keep, that they can take it back from you at any time for various reasons. That may be fine for some people, but not for me.

I think the only local rescue group that does not do that around here is MCACC HALO. So, for anyone in the Phoenix area reading this, and if you want a rescue dog, I would recommend them to you. They seem rather reasonable about the whole adoption issue. They usually have quite a few chihuahuas available for adoption, and they have already been spayed and vaccinated, except for some reason they don't seem to vaccinate for bordetella, which is something I would do immediately when I got a new chihuahua...

http://www.halorescue.org/adoptions/available-pets/dogs.aspx


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## BostonBullMama

Animal control can come in and sweep your dog away from you for various reasons too, so even when bought from a backyard breeder, if you're an awful pet owner, your dog will be taken.


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## Doggengard

ireth0 said:


> Did you even read the second article you linked to? It just says that many common JRT traits can be overwhelming and they are not a breed for everyone. It's basically just saying to ensure you're prepared due to their high energy and drive levels and not expecting a lap dog, no where does it say the breed is bad.
> 
> The first article is a blog post written by a random person, hardly an authority piece.


You keep ducking this issue, so let me quote it for you:

"*Bad Dog* Talk for Jack Russell Terriers"

Why are they, the Jack Russell Terrier Club of America, calling them "*BAD DOGS*" ?

Can you answer that without ducking the question?


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## Doggengard

BostonBullMama said:


> Animal control can come in and sweep your dog away from you for various reasons too, so even when bought from a backyard breeder, if you're an awful pet owner, your dog will be taken.


Here's a well-known case where an adopted dog came with all sorts of strings attached...

http://www.today.com/id/21336607/ns...escue-group-finds-new-home-iggy/#.U0QIL6iRqSo


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## ireth0

Doggengard said:


> You keep ducking this issue, so let me quote it for you:
> 
> "*Bad Dog* Talk for Jack Russell Terriers"
> 
> Why are they, the Jack Russell Terrier Club of America, calling them "*BAD DOGS*" ?
> 
> Can you answer that without ducking the question?


Read the 2nd article and you'll answer your own question. 

I'll summarize again for you; JRT's can sometimes be considered 'bad' by people who aren't prepared for their drive and energy levels. They require a high level of commitment from their owners. If you are getting a JRT be prepared for these traits (they list the traits) and don't expect a lap dog.


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## BostonBullMama

:llama: :deadhorse: opcorn:


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## Doggengard

Kyllobernese said:


> What bothers me is that what did you expect to get for $40.00? It just sounds like you are mad because the great "bargain" did not turn out like you expected. You just jumped at the chance to get a couple of cute "Chihuahuas" cheap and when they did not turn out like you expected you want to blame everyone else, even the puppies because you think they are not pure Chihuahua, which they may or may not be. They are not bad pups,* just not what you expected. I am glad the Shelter wanted both of them as I am sure you would not have been satisfied with either of them* and they must have seen your attitude towards the pups. *I am glad the puppy you have now seems to have lived up to your expectations*.


I agree with the bolded parts.


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## Doggengard

ireth0 said:


> Read the 2nd article and you'll answer your own question.
> 
> I'll summarize again for you; JRT's can sometimes be considered 'bad' by people who aren't prepared for their drive and energy levels. They require a high level of commitment from their owners. *If you are getting a JRT be prepared for these traits (they list the traits) and don't expect a lap dog*.


Yes, I agree with the bolded part. That's what I have been saying.


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## Sarah~

Doggengard said:


> Don't buy a dog from craigslist (or other similar classifieds).... _*UNLESS YOU WANT TO SAVE MONEY.*_


HA!

I bought my pit mix for 10$ on craigslist. You know what I got? A puppy with epilepsy, severe allergies, and can't even hold her own bladder. She's ONE YEAR OLD. The vet and I are starting to suspect her seizures have given her brain damage. I have spent in vet bills more than I paid for my GSD from a breeder, who has been the picture of health since day one. He is now 2. And I would pay those vet bills all over again!

JRTs are not the breed for me by a long shot but there is NOTHING wrong with them. With the right owner they are awesome little dogs, my aunt had one that made me laugh all the time, he was such a clown!


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## ireth0

Doggengard said:


> Sorry, but there is no way I would pay $2500 for a dog.
> 
> From my perspective, she was a horrible dog for me, and I do not regret rehoming her to a no-kill animal shelter. *Maybe someone will want that emotionally cold fish of a dog, that destructive and unruly dog. Not me.
> 
> Sometimes dogs turn out bad. *People sometimes forget that dogs have personalities, too, just like people, and sometimes they clash with their owners. I wasn't going to spend the next 15 to 20 years with a dog that didn't like me, and worse, a dog that I couldn't stand anymore. I did the best thing for both of us. I gave her up to people who will try to find a proper home for her and her brother. That's my biggest regret, her sweet little brother got dragged into it with her. He was adorable compared to her.
> 
> At least I didn't drop her off at the Arizona Humane Society where they probably would have put her to sleep.
> 
> A lot of people don't realize that their local Humane Society euthanizes a huge amount of the dogs turned into them. I knew enough about that to find a no-kill animal shelter, but I did to have pay them a fee to take them. And they did have to be neutered and spayed and vaccinated first before they would take them as an owner surrender. Thank god she won't be having any puppies.





Doggengard said:


> Okay, there is no way I would ever spend that much money on a dog.
> 
> My advice is not for rich people who can afford to spend money like it's going out of style. My advice is for the average person who will end up buying their dog from craigslist or from a newspaper like The Arizona Republic classified ad section. I'm saying, you can tell a lot based upon what the puppy looks like.
> 
> If people would stop buying the puppies that look like she did, stop buying the chihuahua puppies whose ears don't stand up, then *eventually the corrupted gene pool would be cleaned out *and the chihuahua puppies would go back to looking like they are supposed to look, and acting like they should act.
> 
> Now I know better. I will never fall for that again. If the prospective puppy in the future doesn't look the way I want it to look, and if its ears aren't already standing up, I will not buy it. And one more thing I now do is I get down on the ground and see if the puppy will walk over to me, sit in my lap, and look me in the eyes voluntarily before I buy it. If it doesn't do that, I don't want it.





Doggengard said:


> If you had experienced what I experienced with her, you would probably feel differently.
> 
> So many people on here feel like the dog can never be at fault for anything.
> 
> She was the wrong fit for me.
> 
> *Even when I first got her she would never come when called, and when I tried to pick her up she would run away, hide under furniture, when I tried to pet her she would back up out of reach. If I managed to pick her up she would struggle the whole time I tried to hold her and pet her. The only way I could catch her was to sit down on the floor with her brother and pet him, and then she would try to get to him and in doing so she came close enough for me to grab her, but then she immediately tried to get away and run away after that. Her brother was so much nicer than her*.





Doggengard said:


> Finally! Someone gets some of what I have been trying to say.
> 
> I expected chihuahua traits, but ended up with Jack Russell Terrier traits, and I knew that this was NOT what I wanted, so in my opinion, I did the best thing possible for them: I gave them up to no-kill rescue shelter which would find someone who would want them.
> 
> Believe me, there were many other ways this could have gone down, and you know what I mean. The least of which, they could have ended up at the Arizona Humane Society where over 50% of owner surrendered animals get euthanized almost immediately once the former owner leaves the room.
> 
> And once again, if I could have just given up the JRT girl and kept the much sweeter, much nicer Rat Terrier boy puppy, I would have. But the rescue group demanded both of them at the same time.
> 
> But, things have a way of working themselves out for the better.
> 
> I am very happy with my new chihuahua puppy. She is exactly what I wanted. I probably won't be looking for a new chihuahua puppy until the year 2030 or so. I wonder if craigslist will exist in the year 2030?
> 
> My point is still to warn people out there who will not be spending thousands of dollars on the purchase of their next chihuahua, and who will be using something like craigslist or the Arizona Republic newspaper classified ad section, LOOK OUT!!!! If that puppy doesn't look quite right to you, there's probably a reason, and you might be sorry you got it. Those exotic colors are warning you that there might be some *undesirable genes* in those puppies.





Doggengard said:


> Yes, I agree with the bolded part. That's what I have been saying.


No, no it isn't what you have been saying.


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## kcomstoc

I agree with HollowHaven if you are making your dog look into your eyes they view that as a challenge, it's not a polite thing to a dog. Another thing DOGS DON'T LIKE BEING PICKED UP, now I am going to say MOST because it's an individual thing but if someone picked me up when I didn't want to be picked up I would probably not like you either

Also I am going to pay 1800 for my health tested, eye tested rough collie puppy and I am by no means rich....my boyfriend is a full time student and I work 2 jobs at minimum wage. We also have to care for 2 rabbits and a dog. Now truthfully I probably won't get my puppy until my current dog is gone but that is only because my current dog doesn't get along with other dogs. He has been quite a challenge that I didn't expect (very intelligent breed) and even though he's made me irritated and could've gotten sick from all the things he's gotten into *which I tried to keep him out of using various methods but still MY fault, not his* he's a good dog and luckily is healthy. 

Maybe you should've seen the obvious clues earlier I DON'T mean coat color or ears standing up I mean 1. lady selling a dog for $40 2. lady pushing 2 dogs on you for that price 3. 2 unneutered dogs that could've been the father making them a mix *not a bad thing* but obviously to YOU isn't desirable. Seems pretty obvious to me that you should've walked away before those 2 puppies had to be taken to a shelter because you couldn't handle them. Question: why did you settle for a mixed breed if what you REALLY wanted is a pure bred chi?


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## cookieface

kcomstoc said:


> I agree with HollowHaven if you are making your dog look into your eyes they view that as a challenge, it's not a polite thing to a dog. Another thing DOGS DON'T LIKE BEING PICKED UP, now I am going to say MOST because it's an individual thing but if someone picked me up when I didn't want to be picked up I would probably not like you either
> 
> Also I am going to pay 1800 for my health tested, eye tested rough collie puppy and I am by no means rich....my boyfriend is a full time student and I work 2 jobs at minimum wage. We also have to care for 2 rabbits and a dog. Now truthfully I probably won't get my puppy until my current dog is gone but that is only because my current dog doesn't get along with other dogs. He has been quite a challenge that I didn't expect (very intelligent breed) and even though he's made me irritated and could've gotten sick from all the things he's gotten into *which I tried to keep him out of using various methods but still MY fault, not his* he's a good dog and luckily is healthy.
> 
> Maybe you should've seen the obvious clues earlier I DON'T mean coat color or ears standing up I mean 1. lady selling a dog for $40 2. lady pushing 2 dogs on you for that price 3. 2 unneutered dogs that could've been the father making them a mix *not a bad thing* but obviously to YOU isn't desirable. Seems pretty obvious to me that you should've walked away before those 2 puppies had to be taken to a shelter because you couldn't handle them. *Question: why did you settle for a mixed breed if what you REALLY wanted is a pure bred chi?*


From reading his/her comments, it seems that bargain shopping was more important than finding a well-bred chi.


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## kcomstoc

cookieface said:


> From reading his/her comments, it seems that bargain shopping was more important than finding a well-bred chi.


 AH!!! right.....of course money, money, money, money....most important thing ever.....*sarcastic voice*


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## Adjecyca1

Doggengard said:


> Don't buy a dog from craigslist (or other similar classifieds).... _*UNLESS YOU WANT TO SAVE MONEY.*_
> 
> Like I said before, I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on a chihuahua, when there are perfectly good chihuahuas for sale at reasonable prices. You just have to be picky and watch out for ones that don't look right because you may end up with something you don't want.
> 
> The current chihuahua I have was from an ad on craigslist, and she is just exactly what I wanted. Her ears were already standing up all the way when I bought her, and she looks exactly what a chihuahua should look like. And correspondingly, she acts just like a chihuahua should act like. The way a dog looks does indicate what genes are expressing themselves.
> 
> People commenting on here keep forgetting that I have already had two chihuahuas BEFORE all this happened, and I raised them up from tiny little puppies all the way to old age and finally death. So it's not like I don't know what a chihuahua puppy should act like.
> 
> And here is a picture of my current chihuahua, from when I first got her. Isn't she wonderful? Just look at her!


Except in the long run, you may loose A LOT more money with your byb dog from craigslist because of medical problems, than you would if you got a dog from a responsible breeder who breeds away from health issues...


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## ireth0

Adjecyca1 said:


> Except in the long run, you may loose A LOT more money with your byb dog from craigslist because of medical problems, than you would if you got a dog from a responsible breeder who breeds away from health issues...


Except that would require researching and saving up money over time and not allow for instant gratification.


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## Adjecyca1

Doggengard said:


> Here's a well-known case where an adopted dog came with all sorts of strings attached...
> 
> http://www.today.com/id/21336607/ns...escue-group-finds-new-home-iggy/#.U0QIL6iRqSo


Things like that do not happen frequently AT ALL, and she DID sign a contract that said she can not rehome the dog, as long as you do not plan on rehoming the dog, it shouldn't be a problem


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## BostonBullMama

Adjecyca1 said:


> Things like that do not happen frequently AT ALL, and she DID sign a contract that said she can not rehome the dog, as long as you do not plan on rehoming the dog, it shouldn't be a problem


But this poster clearly does plan on* rehoming the dog if it doesn't live up to their expectations. - No pressure.


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## Adjecyca1

BostonBullMama said:


> But this poster clearly does plan no rehoming the dog if it doesn't live up to their expectations. - No pressure.


He didnt look for a home for his last pups. He dropped them off at a shelter, if he doesn't want the dog he could always bring it back to the shelter or rescue


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## BostonBullMama

Adjecyca1 said:


> He didnt look for a home for his last pups. He dropped them off at a shelter, if he doesn't want the dog he could always bring it back to the shelter or rescue


Because he couldn't be bothered with it. He didn't bring them back to the seller, he ditched them in an already overflowing shelter. What's the difference?


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## HollowHeaven

This thread is a shining example of why so many dogs are dying in shelters.
Lazy owner purchases dog from BYB
Lazy owner dumps dog in shelter
Lazy owner gets a BYB dog in replacement.

At least they can't breed. I guess.
Hope this chi can't either.

I hope the shelter can find those pups a home with someone with some common sense and a stronger sense of responsibility and ethics.


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## lil_fuzzy

Doggengard said:


> You keep ducking this issue, so let me quote it for you:
> 
> "*Bad Dog* Talk for Jack Russell Terriers"
> 
> Why are they, the Jack Russell Terrier Club of America, calling them "*BAD DOGS*" ?
> 
> Can you answer that without ducking the question?


I haven't read what the website says, but if it says exactly that, this is most likely to discourage people who would buy the breed because they look cute or because they have seen well trained JRT's on tv and they think all JRT's will magically behave like that from birth. It's not a breed for everyone, and it's very common in breed clubs and breed websites to point out all the traits that may be considered "bad" by the average pet dog owner to discourage these from getting a breed that will be too much for them and not the right fit, which would result in the dog ending up in a shelter or put to sleep.

The JRT club isn't the only breed club/website that does this. I have seen websites about the border collie point out everything that is "wrong" with them too, because they are so popular and ignorant people buy them because they are pretty and smart, but are not prepared for the energy level and ensuing destruction and problem behaviours when the dog doesn't get enough exercise.

But most likely, it doesn't say that JRT's are bad dogs, it says many common JRT traits can be overwhelming and they are not a breed for everyone.


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## Kayota

im honestly really wondering what proper chinuahua colors are in your opinion op.


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## HollowHeaven

Chihuahua Colors
http://www.totallychihuahuas.com/chihuahua-basics/chihuahua-colors-markings
http://www.kandeechihuahuas.com/ChihColors/8.html

Just gonna throw that out there. Lol


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## Kayota

lol yeah....


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## Twokings

Damn, didn't know the opinions of the barrio trumped researched data....this thread was a tragic read.


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## d_ray

OMG merle and brindle chi's. So cute! Never seen one in person and would love to!


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