# My dog is better than yours.



## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Do you ever encounter people who just think their dog is SO special and SO much better than yours? Like... "My dog does this, my dog does that, oh my dog would never do that! Blah, blah, blah." It's great that you like your dog so much, but jeez simmer down. I don't think that you can fairly compare 2 dogs side by side because they are all so different. Some just have different personality quirks than others. Dogs are so much different outside their homes with strangers than they are at home with their families. And what one person likes in a dog, another person may loathe. There are some dogs that I meet and I think yeah my dog is better, SUITED TO ME (and sometimes I secretly think he's smarter...or wish anyways).


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Oh yeah, all of that. I also love the ones that ask you a question about your dog but interrupt to tell you about THEIR dog.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Gotta love the old school days my dog is tougher than yours skit which unfortunately still resigns in the back pockets or comment sections of the internet. Which I now avoid.

Now days I get more people bragging how huge their Rottweiler is compared to mine,something I couldn't care less about. Also some breeds can get more of the ego-maniacs,mainly of Border Collies,Belgian Malinois,APBT and GSD.


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

Don't forget dobermans.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Oh gosh. Yes. Recently I've been told only herders do about 6 different things or need special methods of teaching things or only a herder would be bothered by _____. It's driving me nuts.

Especially because those traits actually fit across most dogs? And Summer and Mia are more this or that than Nikki or Trey (actual herding breeds) were... 

There is a lady at agility that seems to think Summer is a herding breed because she keeps commenting that I need to train her a certain way because 'herding breeds need it this way'.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

> Oh gosh. Yes. Recently I've been told only herders do about 6 different things or need special methods of teaching things or only a herder would be bothered by _____. It's driving me nuts.


YEP. I get real sick and tired of 'Herders are magical special dogs who are unlike any other dog ever and need special everything'. Yeah, they have some breed traits. So do labs, retrievers, hounds- They're also FREAKING DOGS.

I think my biggest annoyance with the My dog is better than your dog' stuff is actually more in terms of 'My dog is harder/more difficult to own than your dog'. It's the weirdest kind of special snowflake syndrome ever, and bothers me way more than "my dog is better behaved, knows more tricks and prettier" stuff.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I have not told the one person that Summer is not a herder. I swear every time I see her there is something or other comment about how I should do XYZ because 'herders'. I am not sure if she thinks papillons are herders or what???

Also, Summer stares more than my herders. Mia is more velcro than my herders. Mia heel nips ME and other dogs. Mia stalks other dogs. Both Mia and Summer pick up patterns very easily. Also Mia and Summer are both more dog reactive than any herder I had. And Mia is plain more REACTIVE than any herder I had. And she is very motion oriented with other animals. I will say Trey heeled more and car chased, which the paps haven't. Oh and the paps are just as loudmouthed as the shelties. All of that is things I've heard are 'herder things'. I'm pretty sure it's just... dog things.

Also apparently a dog squabble near the ring is unfair to herders only because they're so much more sensitive than other dogs???? Pretty much every dog except Summer got agitated. Summer is just bombproof and oblivious. lol


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Well, every dog IS the best dog so that doesn't really bother me that much. But what drives me nuts is when people insist THEIR breed (whichever breed the person in question happens to own) is some kind of special, unique, rainbow-pooping mythical beast that you could not possibly ever understand until you owned one.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Summer is undoubtably the Best Dog tho. No one can convince me otherwise.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

People in agility seem determined to make Kylie some kind of herding dog mix. I'm 99% sure that isn't the case. If she is, it's a tiny percentage. I'm pretty sure there's some kind herding breed tinted glasses that happens. I also LIKE herders (some of them), own a couple of mixes, and still somehow resent the heck out of them because of the freaking hype.

I will straight up say that Molly is not a bit more difficult than other puppies I have had. She is much, much easier than Thud and about the same as Kylie. I'm not a bit convinced she's a bit smarter than Kylie, either  But heck, I said long ago there is not a single trait that exists in one breed that does not exist in others. The combinations and intensities may be different from breed to breed and individual to individual, but - Well.



> sassafras said:
> 
> 
> > But what drives me nuts is when people insist THEIR breed (whichever breed the person in question happens to own) is some kind of special, unique, rainbow-pooping mythical beast that you could not possibly ever understand until you owned one.


THAT.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Well, every dog IS the best dog so that doesn't really bother me that much. But what drives me nuts is when people insist THEIR breed (whichever breed the person in question happens to own) is some kind of special, unique, rainbow-pooping mythical beast that you could not possibly ever understand until you owned one.


Haha yeah that and they think they're the ONLY person fit to own that particular breed.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

jade5280 said:


> Haha yeah that and they think they're the ONLY person fit to own that particular breed.


I always kind of think people who talk about how _hard_ it is to own a particular breed are either:

A-) Hanging their ego on their dog, which skeeves me out.

or

B-) Have the wrong breed for them/a bad fit. 

I mean I complain constantly about how hard Thud is for me. I KNOW Thud is a bad fit and would be considered easy in other hands. He's mine and I'm keeping him, but.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

I can be guilty of bragging about Cosmo a lot, but I don't mean to say my dog is better then yours, I'm just terrible at communicating properly. He's my little booger, and I love him. And I think that because of how I love him (or how other people love their dogs), views get skewed, love blind. 

I do wish my dog pooped rainbow poops....


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

And I totally get that you want to make sure people realize what they're getting into with some breeds, but I CONSTANTLY see people pull out the old "You know you have an XYZ when it ABC's!!!" and ABC is something that literally every dog I've ever had in my life has done.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Needs exercise.
Needs consistent boundaries and rules.

That's not useful information. That's not even information.

"Not known for being reliable off leash"
"Usually have a lot of prey-drive."
"Can be escape artists."
"Are frequently aloof/independent."

Those kinds of things are useful.

"The dog needs lots of exercise, an experienced handler, and to have boundaries" is just every dog EVER.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

littlesoprano said:


> I can be guilty of bragging about Cosmo a lot, but I don't mean to say my dog is better then yours, I'm just terrible at communicating properly. He's my little booger, and I love him. And I think that because of how I love him (or how other people love their dogs), views get skewed, love blind.
> 
> I do wish my dog pooped rainbow poops....


I brag about things that Ryker does that I'm proud of and I'm sure most people on here do too. The difference is being obnoxious about it and acting like your dog is so much better and more special than someone else's.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

jade5280 said:


> I brag about things that Ryker does that I'm proud of and I'm sure most people on here do too. The difference is being obnoxious about it and acting like your dog is so much better and more special than someone else's.


Well clearly he is


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

littlesoprano said:


> I can be guilty of bragging about Cosmo a lot, but I don't mean to say my dog is better then yours, I'm just terrible at communicating properly. He's my little booger, and I love him. And I think that because of how I love him (or how other people love their dogs), views get skewed, love blind.
> 
> *I do wish my dog pooped rainbow poops....*


Crayons...
Works on kids too


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

One of my dogs was having diarrhea once and I couldn't figure out who it was.

So I passed out some canned dog food with different colored food coloring for each dog mixed in.

That made for a really colorful day.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

But...but. Jubel is the bestest of the best. My little sh*thead for sure but he's the best to me haha.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

GUILTY - seriously, I dote over my dog probably more than my kids - my bad - BUT there is a reason. 
It's not because I think he's better than (generalised) your dog, but because I want to know I am doing a good job so my insecurities (this is my first dog!! am I doing good??) and pride (he's well trained - right?) come to the surface and I'm basically asking to know your (generalised) opinion because I am assuming you're a better handler than I am and could offer advice. 

I also brag a little, like someone will compliment Toby since he's under 2 and better trained than most dogs in the building and I'll thank them and then fess up that I'm going to be putting him in agility - but it's because I love that 'Oh wow!' reaction. I like to know I'm doing a good job because my main insecurity is that all of the other dog owners in the area are judging me. 

Also... confession... I love when other peoples dogs are acting up and mine is being super amazing and just ignoring the other dog and walking passed like it's not even there.... Sorry-not-sorry, I actually get a little excited about it... LOL

Confession too - I once brought tobys hoop downstairs while my kid waited for the bus for school and put on a "show" for the kids in the area til the bus came just because I'm a narcissist.... :yield:

(not actually a narcissist.... i think...)


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

CptJack said:


> One of my dogs was having diarrhea once and I couldn't figure out who it was.
> 
> So I passed out some canned dog food with different colored food coloring for each dog mixed in.
> 
> That made for a really colorful day.


 Omg that's hilarious. And very creative!


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

I probably come off this way, honestly. I'm just so amazed by my dog like every day that I can't help but be like... OMG you won't believe how awesome she is at this! It doesn't mean I think less of other dogs though. I love hearing what others have done with their dogs, and I love hearing others brag.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

BostonBullMama said:


> GUILTY - seriously, I dote over my dog probably more than my kids - my bad - BUT there is a reason.
> It's not because I think he's better than (generalised) your dog, but because I want to know I am doing a good job so my insecurities (this is my first dog!! am I doing good??) and pride (he's well trained - right?) come to the surface and I'm basically asking to know your (generalised) opinion because I am assuming you're a better handler than I am and could offer advice.
> 
> I also brag a little, like someone will compliment Toby since he's under 2 and better trained than most dogs in the building and I'll thank them and then fess up that I'm going to be putting him in agility - but it's because I love that 'Oh wow!' reaction. I like to know I'm doing a good job because my main insecurity is that all of the other dog owners in the area are judging me.
> ...


You know what you said what I had on mind better then I could've lol. I'm lacking in the self confidence department, and totally live through the compliments Cosmo gets. He's my first dog too, and when I see him being so well behaved and someone points it out, it's a big confidence booster! Even our recent stay endeavour, I feel like I'm teaching it in the most idiotic manner, but then when someone actually says "wow he's doing well", it helps. Everyone's dogs on here are so incredible, and handsome, and totally the kind of dogs I'd want to live with, but when someone says "your dog is so well behaved", it puts a smile on my face. Also I see how well behaved the dogs are on here and how much experience people have, and then I remember that when I got Cosmo, my BF (the experienced one) wasn't around due t being sick, and he peed on the floor immediately upon being placed in my care LOL.

But because of that it makes me come across as an a-hat lol.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I really don't think this about bragging or being proud, guys.

There is a difference between commenting on what your dog does, and making a negative remark about, or comparison to, someone else's.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

dagwall said:


> But...but. Jubel is the bestest of the best. My little sh*thead for sure but he's the best to me haha.





BostonBullMama said:


> Also... confession... I love when other peoples dogs are acting up and mine is being super amazing and just ignoring the other dog and walking passed like it's not even there.... Sorry-not-sorry, I actually get a little excited about it... LOL
> 
> Confession too - I once brought tobys hoop downstairs while my kid waited for the bus for school and put on a "show" for the kids in the area til the bus came just because I'm a narcissist.... :yield:


I think it's safe to say that all of our dogs are *the* best dog. 

BostonBullMama, I know what you mean about showing off. I'm secretly happy when Ryker "outdoes" another dog. Like one day we were in a drive thru and a dog was barking in the car behind us and Ryker let out a huge bawl and it scared the crap out of me and the other dog didn't bark after that. It made me feel good lol.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

I get more comments like "he isn't a REAL dachshund..." as though I ever claimed he was. I either say dachshund mix or mutt if people ask. Then I get to hear about how THEIR dog is a PUREBRED whatever. Great, well, here's your cookie.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> I really don't think this about bragging or being proud, guys.
> 
> There is a difference between commenting on what your dog does, and making a negative remark about, or comparison to, someone else's.


True.... to be honest when I first saw this thread, I immediately thought to myself, "oops, I probably initiated this".


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Yeah my initial post wasn't about people bragging because they are genuinely happy and excited about what their dog can do, but more of people being rude about your dog not being good enough or their dog or breed being better.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

Friend of mine does that (acting like his dogs are the best).... but he also rolls his dogs when it's obvious (to me at least) that they're afraid and need a gentler hand.... I can't even approach him about it, I just turn away and try to tune it out...


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

BostonBullMama said:


> GUILTY - seriously, I dote over my dog probably more than my kids - my bad - BUT there is a reason.
> It's not because I think he's better than (generalised) your dog, but because I want to know I am doing a good job so my insecurities (this is my first dog!! am I doing good??) and pride (he's well trained - right?) come to the surface and I'm basically asking to know your (generalised) opinion because I am assuming you're a better handler than I am and could offer advice.
> 
> I also brag a little, like someone will compliment Toby since he's under 2 and better trained than most dogs in the building and I'll thank them and then fess up that I'm going to be putting him in agility - but it's because I love that 'Oh wow!' reaction. I like to know I'm doing a good job because my main insecurity is that all of the other dog owners in the area are judging me.
> ...


My dog is the one barking like a looney toon at your dog as your proudly walk by with Toby who is being well mannered! I'm so offended right now! (kidding of, course )

I know what you mean though. I have the same problem when people tell me about their house trained dogs who won't hold it if they don't get let out in time. "MY dog would hold it ALL day if she had to!" is my first thought. Yeah probably kind of jerky.. but at least I don't tell them. I always relent and remember that most people don't have to bring treats with them every time they go on a walk with THEIR dog.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> My dog is the one barking like a looney toon at your dog as your proudly walk by with Toby who is being well mannered! I'm so offended right now! (kidding of, course )
> 
> I know what you mean though. I have the same problem when people tell me about their house trained dogs who won't hold it if they don't get let out in time. "MY dog would hold it ALL day if she had to!" is my first thought. Yeah probably kind of jerky.. but at least I don't tell them. I always relent and remember that most people don't have to bring treats with them every time they go on a walk with THEIR dog.


Lol I hear you on that. My dog does a lot of things very nicely, but barking? Don't even get me started LOL. My dog's that obnoxious yappy dog.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> My dog is the one barking like a looney toon at your dog as your proudly walk by with Toby who is being well mannered! I'm so offended right now! (kidding of, course )
> 
> I know what you mean though. I have the same problem when people tell me about their house trained dogs who won't hold it if they don't get let out in time. *"MY dog would hold it ALL day if she had to!"* is my first thought. Yeah probably kind of jerky.. but at least I don't tell them. I always relent and remember that most people don't have to bring treats with them every time they go on a walk with THEIR dog.


Toby's done this.... not intentionally... but he doesn't always ask so I will sometimes put off his morning walk til after I've had coffee and breakfast.. and then since I have ADHD I get distracted doing something else (usually online or with the kids) and by the time I remember again it's like 1pm... so we go out and then if it's raining that day sometimes he'll just refuse walks until I force him at like 10.. 
I've considered waiting him out to see how long he'd go until he started asking to go out - he used to ask every few hours, but that was before the rainy weather.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

jade5280 said:


> Yeah my initial post wasn't about people bragging because they are genuinely happy and excited about what their dog can do, but more of people being rude about your dog not being good enough or their dog or breed being better.


Exactly everyone has their breed or type preferences and everyone thinks their dog is the most amazing on the block or country. No matter what behavior or physical quirks it has. It is not wrong to think that way or even brag at times but if you go out of your way to bad mouth someone else's beloved pet or breed they are loyal to than you are being very rude. If you don't allow or heavily discourage certain breeds from your cliche because it is supposedly an aggressive or stubborn breed or even a breed or size of dog that isn't typical enough for their sport than you are being rude and elitist.

Example of these kind of bad remarks. On a doberman site I went to they where talking about these overly heavy dobes and how ugly they where and why anyone would want them. Than one person remarks "Well why not get a Rottweiler instead". Another remarks. " Well even a fat doberman is smarter than a Rottweiler".
The second remark even beside it being my breed is still uncalled for and an example of "why own that kind of dog when you can have this kind of dog" or "Why don't you own a real or better dog" psychology.
Without a real understanding of why people pick the breeds or type of dogs they do,and despite how much you say a working bred Border collie or whatever is superior they are just not the right dog for everyone. Even for sporting or working purposes their is no one dog that excels at it all.


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## JeJo (Jul 29, 2013)

Well, my dog is the best...at making others feel so great about theirs! lol = ; )


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Mia was a difficult puppy and young dog comparatively. I don't think it's because papillons are difficult (LOL), but just Mia was. She's a funny dog. 

Mia and Nikki have probably been the two most similar dogs I've ever owned and they were two different breeds. Mia was wilder and Nikki was nicer. But very similar intelligence level and similar personality. Summer and Mia are polar opposites to the point that neighbors who meet them a few times will even comment on how different they are. Summer is the easiest dog on the planet. Mia is so much smarter than Summer too. And Trey... dear Trey... he was not smart at all! Even being a herding breed, I am not sure if he had two brain cells to rub together. 

So much is the individual dog. And the more dogs I'm around the more I realize there are amazing dogs in every shape and size and type. I did mention in the agility classes thread but the most competitive dog my trainer is running right now (and probably in our whole club) is a chihuahua that makes Summer look like a giant dog. She's amazing and Qing at a fantastic rate in USDAA (which is NOT slow course times!). Wiping the floor with all the traditional 'agility breeds'. And she draws the biggest crowd in the building when she runs.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

you guys are making me feel like i wouldnt be wrong to pursue my lifelong dream of having a gsd after all so thank you  after hearing all the crap about herders i thought i would be wrong to get a gsd...


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

JeJo said:


> Well, my dog is the best...at making others feel so great about theirs! lol = ; )


That would be Katie, too. _Sometimes_ she's not the most ill-behaved dog in class and I'm a little happy.


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## doggiepop (Feb 27, 2014)

yeah, i'm one of them.



jade5280 said:


> Do you ever encounter people who just think their dog is SO special and SO much better than yours? Like... "My dog does this, my dog does that, oh my dog would never do that! Blah, blah, blah."
> 
> 
> It's great that you like your dog so much, but jeez simmer down. I don't think that you can fairly compare 2 dogs side by side because they are all so different. Some just have different personality quirks than others. Dogs are so much different outside their homes with strangers than they are at home with their families. And what one person likes in a dog, another person may loathe. There are some dogs that I meet and I think yeah my dog is better, SUITED TO ME (and sometimes I secretly think he's smarter...or wish anyways).


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

doggiepop said:


> yeah, i'm one of them.


Congratulations, I guess?


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Clearly superior to the rest of the riffraff floating around this place.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

I have to say...I can't stand classes and workshops that ask me what I want to work on with my dog, because it makes me feel like I am that smug "my dog is better then everyone else's" person. Gem is my primary "working" dog. she is NOT perfect and I do not think she is perfect, however the things she needs work on are not things that can be focused on beyond just running lots of courses. people always want specific exercises that she struggles with to work on, but...she doesn't struggle with any specific exercises... so then all the "hard" exercises get thrown at me like "well what about this, this, and this" and I feel like even more of a jerk because I'm like "she is flawless with all of those.." that's not me thinking she is somehow special, that's from her winning every "judges choice" award offered at every trial she has ever attended specifically BECAUSE she embodies exactly what the judges are looking for in all those "hard" exercises. she isn't special or magical, she just happens to be good at those kind of things lol. what she struggles with is not acting like a friggen loon in the ring! I am so jealous of the people that can compete without their dogs biting their pant legs, stealing signs, and throwing their whole bodies out of position because they are just so excited that can't contain it lol


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> YEP. I get real sick and tired of 'Herders are magical special dogs who are unlike any other dog ever and need special everything'. Yeah, they have some breed traits. So do labs, retrievers, hounds- They're also FREAKING DOGS.
> 
> I think my biggest annoyance with the My dog is better than your dog' stuff is actually more in terms of 'My dog is harder/more difficult to own than your dog'. It's the weirdest kind of special snowflake syndrome ever, and bothers me way more than "my dog is better behaved, knows more tricks and prettier" stuff.


We say it because its true.but its not because they are herding breeds ... more accurately put, it would be "my dog has this personality so this training method works better" if they happen to be a harding or working breed than so be it, if not then that's fine too. I have had shelter mutts who needed the same "type" of training some of my herders did, on contrast, I have had herders who didn't do so well on that method.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

...Never mind, I just can't.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> ...Never mind, I just can't.


But some dogs need a stricter form of rules than others, no matter what their breed.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> But some dogs need a stricter form of rules than others, no matter what their breed.


EVERY breed has some sort of quirk that may add to things you need to train. For example yeah Shelties are easy dogs, but barking is a whole other ball game. But to be honest I don't think any dog is necessarily harder then another. It doesn't take a "special" type of person to own x x breed of dog. Yeah maybe you need to concentrate in different aspects of training, but you don't need to be some dog training god to earn "certain" breeds.

For example, my grand parents have always malamutes for as long as I can remember. My grandfather on his first one, was told he wasn't going to be able to handle the dog because they have "special" requirements to keep. No they don't, maybe they have different exercise requirements or something, but anyone can own any type of dog IMO. Maybe you need to put more effort into obedience, or they have more extensive energy needs, but your dog is not "special" because it's "hard" to own. Your dog is special because it's a good dog and thats it.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I think what bothers me about this is, honestly? 

Herding breeds are some of the EASIEST breeds to train! Yeah, they need exercise and you actually have to train or they'll train themselves and individual dogs vary, but um. You want to impress me? Show me your obedience trained Anatolian Shepherd or Coonhound. 

THAT impresses me. Well trained Border Collie? Pffft. I mean still work! But they're breeds bred to work with you and take instruction from you.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Years ago, my husband and I got invited over to this guy's house to hang out and take a break from traveling. We had Charlotte with us, and she was invited to come along to. When we got there, we found there were a LOT of people...and most of them had dogs of their own. This was before Charlotte had developed her fear aggression, and was still pretty tolerant of strange dogs, so we went ahead to hang out. While there, this one couple who had a pregnant cocker spaniel mix, and a Bernese mountain dog, went on bragging about how totally "badass" their dogs were, and how they behaved way better then anyone elses, and did this and that better. 

That night we had gone to sleep in a private room with Charlotte, and had kept the door shut the whole night. Next morning, I got up to let her out, and noticed one of the dogs had taken a dump on the floor. I knew it wasn't Charlotte, based on the fact that she had been shut in the room all night with us. I took her out, and when I returned, our friend told everyone someone's dog had gone to the bathroom on the floor, and imediately the other couple began blaming Charlotte, stating that their dogs were 100% house broken and wouldn't DREAM of going in someone's house. They didn't see her do this, but because their dogs were SUPER DUPER BADASS it couldn't have been them and MUST have been Char.

Even if your dogs are 100% house broken in ONE house, doesn't mean they would be in a house they've never been in before, especially one with 6 other dogs running around who are complete strangers to them. I'm pretty certain it was the pregnant, sick, cocker mix who did it.

I think everyone feels like your dogs are the best to YOU, and that's okay. But there's no need to be a disrespectful jackass about it.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

See I don't agree, I wouldn't recommend a number of breeds to a first time dog owner, maybe your grandparents lucked out and got a "good" one? that happens. but they could get a surprise if they get a malamute that is more like the "standard" malamute.

each dog is an individual.


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## PurplePointer (Jul 4, 2014)

My dog is way better than yours... At running into closed sliding glass doors. Today, running into it the first time wasn't enough he had to back up and try it agin.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> See I don't agree, I wouldn't recommend a number of breeds to a first time dog owner, maybe your grandparents lucked out and got a "good" one? that happens. but they could get a surprise if they get a malamute that is more like the "standard" malamute.
> 
> each dog is an individual.


There is a difference between recommending a breed and saying that first-timers shouldn't get X because they won't be able to handle it. Sure, maybe a different breed might be "easier" to deal with, but that doesn't mean they can't handle the more difficult breed. And honestly? IMO, attitudes like this are just as damaging for the "Easy" breeds because it makes new dog owners think that the "easy" breeds don't need as much training. Which IME is far less specific to breed than it is to how the dog is raised (e.g. socialized vs. not) and/or its individual personality.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't say flat out that they shouldn't get them because they couldn't handle them, unless I honestly think that is the case. In most cases I will make sure they know what they could be getting into.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

My first dogs were huskies, then I got an "easy" breed.

Sorry my huskies (yes multiple) were a lot easier than Manna


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

CptJack said:


> ...Never mind, I just can't.


Ahhheeeeeeee !!!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Flaming said:


> My first dogs were huskies, then I got an "easy" breed.
> 
> Sorry my huskies (yes multiple) were a lot easier than Manna


to each their own, what people find easy about northern breeds, I couldn't handle.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> See I don't agree, I wouldn't recommend a number of breeds to a first time dog owner, maybe your grandparents lucked out and got a "good" one? that happens. but they could get a surprise if they get a malamute that is more like the "standard" malamute.
> 
> *each dog is an individual.*


 OK. . .your second statement just contradicted your first statement. Either each dog is an individual or some breeds are harder than others. They can't both be true.

Anyway, what some people consider "hard" is totally different from what other people consider hard. Some people think a Border Collie is just what they need and some people think a BC is a nightmare on 4 legs. It's really all in your personality.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Willowy said:


> OK. . .your second statement just contradicted your first statement. Either each dog is an individual or some breeds are harder than others. They can't both be true.
> 
> Anyway, what some people consider "hard" is totally different from what other people consider hard. Some people think a Border Collie is just what they need and some people think a BC is a nightmare on 4 legs. It's really all in your personality.


Yep. I would own another 20 border collies (or in this case a border/acd X) before I will own another hound. I would rather own 8 terriers -even harder terriers- than a lab. Those dogs are DIFFICULT for me. I don't do well with 'hard' or independent dogs. And I have to agree with Gingerkid: You do an enormous disservice to people and dogs when you recommend some breed as 'easy' or a 'good starter dog', without consideration to the people doing the asking. 

And I know I said I couldn't, but I am: 

My major problem of this is not recognition of breed traits. My major problem is people think breed traits are things they are not. A need for boundaries, training, and exercise is not a freaking breed trait. That's called BEING A DOG. Is the result of me not providing them for Thud different than not providing them from Jack? Sure. Jack would unstuff the sofa and would hunt small animals 24/7. Thud would chase the cats and guard against things that don't need guarded against. THAT is where breed and personality differences come into play. The need for consistency and training? BEING A DOG.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> I think what bothers me about this is, honestly?
> 
> Herding breeds are some of the EASIEST breeds to train! Yeah, they need exercise and you actually have to train or they'll train themselves and individual dogs vary, but um. You want to impress me? Show me your obedience trained Anatolian Shepherd or Coonhound.
> 
> THAT impresses me. Well trained Border Collie? Pffft. I mean still work! But they're breeds bred to work with you and take instruction from you.


I agree. We had 2 Anatolians working on our family's Alpaca Farm when we were kids, and they were the most stubborn dogs in the world. They were big goofy sweethearts, but they just could careless what you had to say. They did their job (we had big coyote problems), but it would be much harder to train them then it would be a border collie. Just because they need more exercise doesn't make them a hard dog. Meeting a dog's energy requirements and being strict is easy, teaching a dog that has NO interest in learning (That was Blue and Stuart in a nutshell), is hard. 

My grandparents were strict with their Malamute (I believe Licky was her name), but it was NOT a hard dog. All that was required was common sense. I think most aspects of owning a dog require common sense. And that dog lived with 4 cats without blinking an eye. Same with the following malamutes.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Without having read the whole thread, I'll say that I honestly feel my dogs are better than anybody else's.

Why? Because they're mine. They're what I wanted. Doesn't mean anybody else's dog is bad, or that I don't like other dogs, but my dogs are "better" (for me).


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

Lol I totally agree about ability to train and certain breeds. Gem's beginner agility class drove me nuts because everyone would look and Gem, and when they learned she was a rescue they would all get super hard on eachother like "THST dogs a rescue and look how good SHE is" and I was usually sitting there like...couple things, 1) I am an experienced handler, that gives me an edge, I had already layed the foundations, and Gem had several titles in other sports prior to starting the class. 2) she is a rescue yes, but I adopted her as a Puppy, she had not been through anything prior as many of the other rescues in the class had. 3) she is a Heeler x GSD, smart, biddible and fearless is in her nature. Dont sell your adult rescue pekingnese mix short just because a heeler mix with an experienced handler has more training behind it.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Without having read the whole thread, I'll say that I honestly feel my dogs are better than anybody else's.
> 
> Why? Because they're mine. They're what I wanted. Doesn't mean anybody else's dog is bad, or that I don't like other dogs, but my dogs are "better" (for me).


This is what I'm getting at. Everyone thinks their dogs are the best because they are theirs and they love them. There's nothing wrong with this so long as you can respect that everyone thinks that about their dog and doesn't need the bragging crammed down their throat.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Miss Bugs said:


> Lol I totally agree about ability to train and certain breeds. Gem's beginner agility class drove me nuts because everyone would look and Gem, and when they learned she was a rescue they would all get super hard on eachother like "THST dogs a rescue and look how good SHE is" and I was usually sitting there like...couple things, 1) I am an experienced handler, that gives me an edge, I had already layed the foundations, and Gem had several titles in other sports prior to starting the class. 2) she is a rescue yes, but I adopted her as a Puppy, she had not been through anything prior as many of the other rescues in the class had. 3) she is a Heeler x GSD, smart, biddible and fearless is in her nature. Dont sell your adult rescue pekingnese mix short just because a heeler mix with an experienced handler has more training behind it.


Oh god, I hate those people in class. Bug went into agility class at 8 years old, and had me as a trainer - I'm NOT gloating but I'd already done the class with Kylie, introduced her to what she needed to do for fun and had good basic obedience. We were taking the class for entertainment and bonding. There were some people there who were just REALLY rough on their dogs because they weren't performing as well. They were 7-9 month old PUPPIES and this was their first formal class. Cut the dog some slack.

(Also: But she's deaaaaf. Stop being impressed by her doing anything. Not being able to hear does not make her stupid - but that's a WHOLE 'nother rant.)


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> Lol I totally agree about ability to train and certain breeds. Gem's beginner agility class drove me nuts because everyone would look and Gem, and when they learned she was a rescue they would all get super hard on eachother like "THST dogs a rescue and look how good SHE is" and I was usually sitting there like...couple things, 1) I am an experienced handler, that gives me an edge, I had already layed the foundations, and Gem had several titles in other sports prior to starting the class. 2) she is a rescue yes, but I adopted her as a Puppy, she had not been through anything prior as many of the other rescues in the class had. 3) she is a Heeler x GSD, smart, biddible and fearless is in her nature. Dont sell your adult rescue pekingnese mix short just because a heeler mix with an experienced handler has more training behind it.


See that's what I am talking about ... do you really think a beginner could handle your heeler/GSD mix?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

CptJack said:


> Oh god, I hate those people in class. Bug went into agility class at 8 years old, and had me as a trainer - I'm NOT gloating but I'd already done the class with Kylie, introduced her to what she needed to do for fun and had good basic obedience. We were taking the class for entertainment and bonding. There were some people there who were just REALLY rough on their dogs because they weren't performing as well. They were 7-9 month old PUPPIES and this was their first formal class. Cut the dog some slack.


Right? Squash and I are going through foundations agility right now, and he's one of the "best" dogs in the class, but... I'm pretty sure he's also the oldest (he's almost four, unbelievably), we've done a TON of activities and training together already, he LOVES playing training and getting on stuff in particular, and he's super confident by nature. 

Man, if people could have seen Squash when he was a year or two old... lulz. Their perspective would be completely different. It's not like he walked out of the box this way.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> See that's what I am talking about ... do you really think a beginner could handle your heeler/GSD mix?


Her really biddable heeler/GSD mix, you mean? 

She's not saying a beginner couldn't handle her dog. She's saying that her classmates shouldn't compare their own beginner _agility handling_ skills to hers.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Her really biddable heeler/GSD mix, you mean?
> 
> She's not saying a beginner couldn't handle her dog. She's saying that her classmates shouldn't compare their own beginner _agility handling_ skills to hers.


No that's what I am saying.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> No that's what I am saying.


So you think a beginner couldn't handle a biddable dog because...? Oh yea, because it's part heeler. :/


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

sassafras said:


> Man, if people could have seen Squash when he was a year or two old... lulz. Their perspective would be completely different. It's not like he walked out of the box this way.


Yeeep. I feel bad for the people but feel worse for the dogs. There was a lot of reassuring people who were new versus the handful of us who had taken the class before (with either another dog, or the same dog). We actually had one woman storm out and take her screaming dog with her because of some issues. That was just sad - really sad - because the dog was a teenager/adolescent puppy and pretty reactive. He came a long way, but the owner just wasn't satisfied. I'd rather see people being super proud than putting their own dogs down in comparison. 

FTR: I don't believe I own a dog a beginner couldn't handle - including the GSD/LGD mix who, let's be real, is 900% more difficult to train by conventional measure of the word than any straight up herding breed is, by sheer virtue of being enormous, drivey, AND absolutely not biddable. If it was the right beginner who was interested in a hard-headed, independent, non-biddable, active dog. In fact, I think many of those beginners would do a better job with him than I have. Because, presumably, some of those beginners would be interested in that. I love and am committed to Thud, but I wasn't interested in that. 

Or, you know, since we're talking heelers and she's got some in there with the BC: ANYBODY could handle Molly (or either of her parents). ANYBODY with two brain cells to rub together, an interest/willingness to do some research and an even moderately active lifestyle. Because in spite of being smart and active, they're extremely sound mentally and physically, have off switches, and an intense interest in working with people.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

ACDs aren't the only magical breed! I've been running across this a lot in the AKK world:



> I think what people are trying to say here, these are "human type" dogs. If you have never had one you wouldn't know what this means. If you have been around one, you will want that kind always. Ordinary dogs come up to you, you pet them and they walk away and that's it. A "human type" dog understands what you are saying and shows they understand. And a Klee Kai watches and learns. A Klee Kai watches and reasons and thinks. They are smarter than any other dog. And not just one or two are human type dogs, but it seems all of them are. If, after seeing a Klee Kai, you think about them all day every day then you will never regret getting one. If you are willing to adjust your lifestyle, are willing to change your home to accommodate the needs of your dog then you won't regret getting one. The only regret you will have is not having a houseful of this amazing breed. It is said over and over again, the Klee Kai is life-changing. No truer words were ever spoken. They are literally human toddlers inside a dog forever.





> The AKK is very different from any other dog (very catlike sometimes).





> I think we can all agree AKK are unlike any other animal.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Crantastic said:


> ACDs aren't the only magical breed! I've been running across this a lot in the AKK world:


Siiiighs. 

Dogs aren't dogs, y'all.

I'm still waiting on someone to come up with ANY singular dog trait that exists in one breed but is not found in any other one. Just one trait that is absolutely unique to an individual breed. 

Not saying breed traits aren't things, but LOL. Speshul snowflake dog breeds really, really gets under my skin.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Not only are AKKs unlike any other _dog_, but unlike any other _animal_ lol.



CptJack said:


> I'm still waiting on someone to come up with ANY singular dog trait that exists in one breed but is not found in any other one. Just one trait that is absolutely unique to an individual breed.
> 
> Not saying breed traits aren't things, but LOL. Speshul snowflake dog breeds really, really gets under my skin.


Agreed. So much.


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## momtolabs (May 27, 2012)

I'm just going to throw this out here even though I haven't really been in the discussion....

I'm 17 and have 2 labs and a ACD/lab mix. When I got Mia I was terrified I was not going to be cut out for her after things I read about ACDs. From day one I could tell she had little to no lab traits. Honestly she has been way easier to handle/train then my labs. I will probably never own a lab again and stick more with ACDs. Our personalities click more. Here is the thing Mia was stubborn as heck at times but then she would get all wiggly and be like "just kidding ill do it" in training. The difference between her and my labs was she works WITH me and not for me if that makes any sense? Honestly if someone does their research and know what there getting into, any dog could work out for beginners, IMO. Lets says someone gets a bloodhound and expects it to act like a retriever yes there is going to be problems. Or if someone gets a lab and expects it to act like a GSD etc. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

CptJack said:


> I'm still waiting on someone to come up with ANY singular dog trait that exists in one breed but is not found in any other one. Just one trait that is absolutely unique to an individual breed.


Same. Every breed trait I can think of in papillons or AKK is shared by other breeds. Maybe not in the exact same combination, but neither breed has any one unique trait. Other breeds are biddable, or talkative, or shy, or clever, or wary of strangers, or prone to separation anxiety, or...


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Crantastic said:


> Same. Every breed trait I can think of in papillons or AKK is shared by other breeds. Maybe not in the exact same combination, but neither breed has any one unique trait. Other breeds are biddable, or talkative, or shy, or clever, or wary of strangers, or prone to separation anxiety, or...


Yeah. I mean you put those traits together in different combinations and with different intensities but... I'm racking my brains trying to come up with something amongst the breeds I know, and I can't come up with a single, solitary thing. And in a whole lot of breeds, those traits are crossed over in varying sized groups.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

sassafras said:


> Not only are AKKs unlike any other _dog_, but unlike any other _animal_ lol.


You know what's even better (I say, sarcastically)? That popped up in a discussion about whether or not AKK chew things out of spite/to punish their owners for leaving them home alone. Maybe _other breeds_ don't have the capacity for spite, but AKK are not like other dogs or even other animals, apparently!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

There are a lot of folks who like breeds like ACDs because they are "pretty" and here lies the problem. I know a few breeders who will not sell to inexperienced or first time owners. Same with the rescues, you will see "will have to go to an experienced ACD home" on some of the dogs profiles.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Nothing can beat the psychic papillons that used to be on the pap wiki page. lol


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

Depends what you mean by beginner..beginner what? Dog owner? Dog sport handler? Gem would make a terrible pet for a first time dog owner who doesn't plan to DO anything, she would reak havoc lol. She is extremely high energy, extremely smart,fearless, hyper in tune with body language and half crocodile. A beginner dog sport person though? She'd be fine... she's smart, high food and toy drive, fearless, super biddible and in tune with body language. The half crocodile part may cause some issues the being hyper in tune with body language would likely slow things down for a newbie who is unaware of themselves but thats it really, she's my go to dog for handing off to people who want to borrow a dog because she is so darn easy lol


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't believe in special breeds. In the last 2.5 years I have trained about 60 different breeds and mixed breeds, and it seems to me there is as much variation within breeds as there is between breeds. Take labs. I've met labs who are not mouthy, very mouthy, not drivey, very drivey, biddable, not biddable, food motivated, not very food motivated, etc.

I see a lot of people around claiming that there is no point even doing recall training with certain breeds because they will never have a reliable recall anyway. They are "independent" and/or "stubborn". To me that's just a self limiting belief. In some cases it's true, the dog will never be reliable enough to be off leash, but what's the harm in trying? The worst thing that can happen is that you have some sort of recall, and you get to do some training/bonding with your dog. But no, they won't even try because it's *impossible*. And it's not just dog owners who make statements like this, but a lot of dog trainers too.

As for comparing your dog to other people's dogs, bad idea. I always tell people to compare their dog to where they were when they started. That's what matters.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Miss Bugs said:


> Depends what you mean by beginner..beginner what? Dog owner? Dog sport handler? Gem would make a terrible pet for a first time dog owner who doesn't plan to DO anything, she would reak havoc lol. She is extremely high energy, extremely smart,fearless, hyper in tune with body language and half crocodile. A beginner dog sport person though? She'd be fine... she's smart, high food and toy drive, fearless, super biddible and in tune with body language. The half crocodile part may cause some issues the being hyper in tune with body language would likely slow things down for a newbie who is unaware of themselves but thats it really, she's my go to dog for handing off to people who want to borrow a dog because she is so darn easy lol


I'm just going to go ahead and float this now because it's relevant and going to come up:

What about a first time dog owner who DID do lots of things with her (I'm thinking dog sports, but there are less organized options that may apply)?


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Flaming said:


> My first dogs were huskies, then I got an "easy" breed.
> 
> Sorry my huskies (yes multiple) were a lot easier than Manna


I`m curious as to why? I would say my malamute/gsd mix was over all more challenging than the Newfie I had. Despite the Newfie have some temperamental quirks which made him returned and abandoned by multiple people before hand. Thus despite the Newfie being a hyperactive pup,very territorial,food possessive,prey driven towards birds,a pain to groom,assertive with other dogs,a chronic humper with other dogs,distrustful,a major barker,clumsy,a big chewer,DA for a short period and health problems when old he was the easiest dog out of the three.

But yes all dogs are individuals in a way,especially sense how bred down many are. With Rottweilers it can really depend on the breeding of the dog on how easy they are. Malamutes can have a mix of difficult traits including aloofness,DA,high prey drive,roaming,being highly destructive,big shedders,non obvious body language,stubbornness,being not naturally submissive or eager to please with humans,howling,energetic and powerful. I was a beginner with a non beginner dog as well,so I don't like to kick people out just for being a beginner but they should be well aware of the characteristics and suited for the breed they want. Too many people get rid of their Pit bull or whatever because it showed DA once mature,despite it being very common in the breed.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I'm just going to go ahead and float this now because it's relevant and going to come up:
> 
> What about a first time dog owner who DID do lots of things with her (I'm thinking dog sports, but there are less organized options that may apply)?


As long as she's worked she'd be fine. I didn't even need to teach her to walk on a leash for goodness sake, at 3 months old she was all "of coarse I'll walk beside you, what else would I do?" Lol


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I do sincerely hope that people all think their dogs are the best. It warms my heart to see people who adore their dogs as much as I adore mine.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I do sincerely hope that people all think their dogs are the best. It warms my heart to see people who adore their dogs as much as I adore mine.


Ditto. Clearly my dog is the best because he wears hats the best.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

As a complete reversal on the original topic:

Does anyone else talk their dogs DOWN? Because I do this in some circumstances - either underestimating or overplaying their flaws. Mostly in situations like Sass mentioned, where someone is being overly critical of their own dog or unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. Sometimes, though, I admittedly just do it as part of performance anxiety. Ie: I set the bar REALLY low for us.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> As a complete reversal on the original topic:
> 
> Does anyone else talk their dogs DOWN? Because I do this in some circumstances - either underestimating or overplaying their flaws. Mostly in situations like Sass mentioned, where someone is being overly critical of their own dog or unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. Sometimes, though, I admittedly just do it as part of performance anxiety. Ie: I set the bar REALLY low for us.


I do. But Cosmo gets mad at me. He gained a LOT of weight when his Legg Calves Perthes really started to hit him hard. And I would go Cosmo, YOU ARE SO FAT OMG, and then he'd go sulk in his crate. He gets really offended if you tell him he's fat.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

People could solve all that and get an Australian Cattle Dog.... then others could not say their dog is better....

LOL Sorry..... I had to......

What I really think.... ACDs are the best dog for ME.... But that does not mean they are the best dog for everyone.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes of course, I also love to see people so passionate about their dogs


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

CptJack said:


> As a complete reversal on the original topic:
> 
> Does anyone else talk their dogs DOWN? Because I do this in some circumstances - either underestimating or overplaying their flaws. Mostly in situations like Sass mentioned, where someone is being overly critical of their own dog or unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. Sometimes, though, I admittedly just do it as part of performance anxiety. Ie: I set the bar REALLY low for us.


Not usually. Like you, I might a bit if I feel like someone is unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. But it's not really talking them down, because generally, I feel like... oh, this is going to be a bit corny... but all the things a dog is, those things can teach us so much. Good, bad, ugly. Every dog that has come into my life, I feel like has taught me something really essential, not just about being a better trainer or owner or problem-solver, but about being a better person. About being a better veterinarian. Sometimes they're teaching me with their strengths, sometimes with their quirks, sometimes with their "flaws." So I'm not interested in truly talking them down, even the "bad" stuff has good stuff come out of it.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Foresthund said:


> I`m curious as to why? I would say my malamute/gsd mix was over all more challenging than the Newfie I had. Despite the Newfie have some temperamental quirks which made him returned and abandoned by multiple people before hand. Thus despite the Newfie being a hyperactive pup,very territorial,food possessive,prey driven towards birds,a pain to groom,assertive with other dogs,a chronic humper with other dogs,distrustful,a major barker,clumsy,a big chewer,DA for a short period and health problems when old he was the easiest dog out of the three.
> 
> But yes all dogs are individuals in a way,especially sense how bred down many are. With Rottweilers it can really depend on the breeding of the dog on how easy they are. Malamutes can have a mix of difficult traits including aloofness,DA,high prey drive,roaming,being highly destructive,big shedders,non obvious body language,stubbornness,being not naturally submissive or eager to please with humans,howling,energetic and powerful. I was a beginner with a non beginner dog as well,so I don't like to kick people out just for being a beginner but they should be well aware of the characteristics and suited for the breed they want. Too many people get rid of their Pit bull or whatever because it showed DA once mature,despite it being very common in the breed.



It was more of a personality thing, I loved the aloofness and I just found them easy to read and smart enough to pick up my more subtle cues. 

Then there's the newfie who will go home with everyone, is over the top with her body language, and is destructive in a "I didn't mean it" type of way. 

You can train a husky not to rip something up but you can't train a newfie to bounce off the wall instead of put her head through it. 

Both are heavy shedders though the huskies matted less, and roaming will never be a problem with my dogs as I plan to keep them secure, no matter the breed. 

The other issues you listed with Malamutes and Huskies weren't really that much of an issue either, DA wasn't an issue with the pack I had and I didn't expect them to get along with other dogs so I didn't force them into those situations, I don't want a submissive dog, I like that they can figure things out for themselves. (Manna's a howler as well and is powerful so she cancelled those out) 

But I do have to give Manna a bonus on her recall abilities, none of my huskies had that. 





CptJack said:


> As a complete reversal on the original topic:
> 
> Does anyone else talk their dogs DOWN? Because I do this in some circumstances - either underestimating or overplaying their flaws. Mostly in situations like Sass mentioned, where someone is being overly critical of their own dog or unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. Sometimes, though, I admittedly just do it as part of performance anxiety. Ie: I set the bar REALLY low for us.



Just going to say.

Manna was a dumb lazy A55 today. Everything from getting her head stuck in a cat door (needed coconut oil to get her out) to refusing to play during a play date (was mopey for some reason) and then once we got home decided Zoomies were the best idea in the world. 

And I think she ate something off today because she has the squirts, vet tomorrow if she still has them.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I haven't bragged but I have seen, like some on here people getting mad at their dogs because they aren't like mine. Hey ... Josefina is almost 5 years old, that's five years of work I out into her and trust me it wasn't easy lol.

People just don't understand that you get out of a dog what you put in, and if you put in nothing guess what you get out.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I play up Casper's faults all of the time, because although I don't believe that AKK are magical dogs that only super special snowflake owners can manage, the breed IS prone to extreme shyness and separation anxiety, and the AKK groups are full of people begging for help with their AKK fear-biting strangers/howling all day while they're not home/whatever. I've seen several posts now from frustrated owners who had no idea what they were getting into when they got their cute little puppy, because they didn't do much research. So I probably play up the bad points more often than the good ones, so that new owners will be expecting the worst. If their pup ends up easy to manage, they'll be pleasantly surprised, and if the pup has issues, the fact that the owner is prepared will help them mitigate those problems.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> I play up Casper's faults all of the time, because although I don't believe that AKK are magical dogs that only super special snowflake owners can manage, the breed IS prone to extreme shyness and separation anxiety, and the AKK groups are full of people begging for help with their AKK fear-biting strangers/howling all day while they're not home/whatever. I've seen several posts now from frustrated owners who had no idea what they were getting into when they got their cute little puppy, because they didn't do much research. So I probably play up the bad points more often than the good ones, so that new owners will be expecting the worst. If their pup ends up easy to manage, they'll be pleasantly surprised, and if the pup has issues, the fact that the owner is prepared will help them mitigate those problems.


Nothing wrong with that, it's best people know what they are getting into.


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## Rootin'Rigby (Dec 21, 2013)

Yep......and it's just the same in the children world, being around other Moms. LOL


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## Eeyore (Jul 16, 2014)

OH MY GOD YES there was this one person who sounded like she thought I was an idiot for using a harness and not a collar on walks, as I didn't want to hurt my dog during his spontaneous full speed ahead accelerations. "If he's two years old, why haven't you taught him to heel yet?", well maybe I don't want him to heel for 4 hours when we're out enjoying the forest. 

If I bring him with me, or if behavior at home is discussed, most people react with a "my dogs would _never_..." when I tell them of his food stealing habits. But mostly they seem chocked by his audacity, rather than disgusted by my ill-trained dog. 

Mostly though, people comment on how well behaved Eeyore is both compared to other dallies they've met, and/or to when I got him (as a stressed out, understimulated 1 y.o). His prey drive is insane and I hate it, and I do talk him down quite a lot but he has turned into a *good dog*.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

well .. yeah .. my dog's better than yours 'cause he gets KEN-L ration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E9H_DvwOVc


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

Eeyore said:


> OH MY GOD YES there was this one person who sounded like she thought I was an idiot for using a harness and not a collar on walks, as I didn't want to hurt my dog during his spontaneous full speed ahead accelerations. "If he's two years old, why haven't you taught him to heel yet?", well maybe I don't want him to heel for 4 hours when we're out enjoying the forest.
> 
> If I bring him with me, or if behavior at home is discussed, most people react with a "my dogs would _never_..." when I tell them of his food stealing habits. But mostly they seem chocked by his audacity, rather than disgusted by my ill-trained dog.
> 
> Mostly though, people comment on how well behaved Eeyore is both compared to other dallies they've met, and/or to when I got him (as a stressed out, understimulated 1 y.o). His prey drive is insane and I hate it, and I do talk him down quite a lot but he has turned into a *good dog*.


Well a lot of people are really shocked when dogs do, "dog things". 

I think one comment that bothers me the most, is when people at the pet store or even people online, will say "your dog is cute and all, but I would never have a small foofoo dog, you can't do anything with it"... What does my dog being small have anything to do with him not being able to do anything.... then when you say they are a "working dog", it's a joke to them. Drives me nuts.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Our neighbor's dog Odin is special and so much better than ours. He's not afraid of anything. He listens REALLY well. And then I mean REALLY well. And he is just SO good natured. He's the über dog. 

Gets tiring sometimes. I always have to remind myself that while Mike is not a social dog... 

At least he doesn't bark all freaking day at passerby and birds and floating leaves and imagined sounds out of frustration because he rarely gets walked because he pulls like a draft horse and is really not that social either. I'm looking at you, Odin. 

Mike's not perfect, and I rarely brag about him. But when compared to Odin, he's a dream. Yeah, I'll admit I think Mike's better than Odin... Then again he's my dog and I love him and I can't stand him being downplayed by people whose dog is obviously not perfect either, but who talk about him like he's the new doggie messiah.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

I'm not going to comment much other than what bugs me as much as the magical, mythical dog breeds bug those who it bugs. It drives me completely nuts when people think all dogs are cutesy, little fragile, fur baby earth angels. There are many who make a lot of excuses for dog behavior or temperament issues because they think dogs' souls are made of glass. There is a saying I heard once from an experienced dog trainer - "Dogs are the amplifiers of who we are ourselves." God, that is so, so true. I think sometimes people can't address what's going on with their dogs because it means they have to address something within themselves. 

Anyway...I'm going to leave it at that and am going to go back to this:


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

CptJack said:


> As a complete reversal on the original topic:
> 
> Does anyone else talk their dogs DOWN? Because I do this in some circumstances - either underestimating or overplaying their flaws. Mostly in situations like Sass mentioned, where someone is being overly critical of their own dog or unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. Sometimes, though, I admittedly just do it as part of performance anxiety. Ie: I set the bar REALLY low for us.



I`m horrible at taking any sort of compliment and without good social skills I usually just say a basic thanks or talk it down. I also was never a bragger,if I wanted to show off I was at least more subtle about it. When someone talks down about my dog or breed I usually either ignore it or get too involved or angry something I need to work on.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

My dogs are FAR from perfect. I already posted in the "what's your dog's faults" thread about some of the bigger issues my two have. Sometimes I'll see dogs out in public doing exactly what my dogs just can't seem to do, and I think "God damn it. Why can't you guys be like that?" However, despite that I'm unbelievably proud of my dogs. To the average person, they are nothing special. Charlotte is just some mutt, and Ma'ii is a poorly bred farm dog. To me they are just the greatest things in the world. I LOVE talking about them, and taking pictures, and showing people pictures of them, and bringing them into town. For no other reason then the simple fact that they are mine. We'll keep working on their issues together, and even if they never overcome those issues, I still wouldn't trade them for any other dog. I think this is the way it should be for everyone, and get really, really sad when I hear people talk about how they hate their dogs. As much as it gets under my skin, I'd much rather hear someone brag about how their dog is the best then hear them seriously talk trash about how much they hate their dog.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Well technically Josefina is a "poorly bred farm dog" and she is like ... the best dog ever  BUT she didn't come out of the box that way, either.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Well technically Josefina is a "poorly bred farm dog" and she is like ... the best dog ever  BUT she didn't come out of the box that way, either.


No dog comes out of a box being perfect, and the definition of the perfect dog is in the eye of the beholder. My dogs aren't perfect. They came to me well into their adult years, and are set in their personalities and habits, both good and bad. We work on changing the things that I don't like, but there are some things that are never going to change. And I actually like that, because it gives them character, which is what makes my relationship with them what it is.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I think because I got to raise her, that was the difference. She was an orphan and it wasn't easy, believe me.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

because I fence my property to give the dogs boundaries they are lessor dogs as true country dogs don't need fencing..........................well, I still have my original dogs for their life time, and well the others are on their 3rd or 4th or finally just gave up on country dogs on the side of the highway...


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

RCloud said:


> I still wouldn't trade them for any other dog. I think this is the way it should be for everyone, and get really, really sad when I hear people talk about how they hate their dogs. As much as it gets under my skin, I'd much rather hear someone brag about how their dog is the best then hear them seriously talk trash about how much they hate their dog.


SO true. It's really sad when people have resentment towards their dog for nothing other than it being a dog and doing dog things.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I think what bothers me about this is, honestly?
> 
> Herding breeds are some of the EASIEST breeds to train! Yeah, they need exercise and you actually have to train or they'll train themselves and individual dogs vary, but um. You want to impress me? Show me your obedience trained Anatolian Shepherd or Coonhound.
> 
> THAT impresses me. Well trained Border Collie? Pffft. I mean still work! But they're breeds bred to work with you and take instruction from you.


This!! I hear so many BC people claim that it takes such a special kind of person to train a BC, and only "crazy people" (like themselves) would get a BC for obedience or agility because they are so different to train.

Seriously? No, only crazy people try to train extremely independent breeds for advanced obedience. People who want a leg up get BCs or other herders.

Not saying it's super easy to train BCs either, but overall it's a heck of a lot easier to train any dog who is extremely smart *and* bred to work closely with you and take direction. I just refuse to believe that it's so much harder to train a BC. Maybe some of them are hard to live with, but that's a whole different thing,


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> As a complete reversal on the original topic:
> 
> Does anyone else talk their dogs DOWN? Because I do this in some circumstances - either underestimating or overplaying their flaws. Mostly in situations like Sass mentioned, where someone is being overly critical of their own dog or unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. Sometimes, though, I admittedly just do it as part of performance anxiety. Ie: I set the bar REALLY low for us.


Yes, I do this. Too often.

Sometimes we meet people out and about while he's well behaved, and they comment on how great he is and then start negatively comparing to their own dog (who was left at home because it's hyper/crazy/whatever). I make sure to tell them that Watson has his crazy moments too, and we've done a lot of work to get to that point. I don't want them to think he's some kind of "perfect" easy dog while their dog is awful. Partially because I want them to think better of their own dog, and partly because I want a little more credit for being able to take my crazy dog into public and have him behave like a model citizen - he wans't born that way!

I do talk him down though. Nobody beats him for being a sweet "good" dog, but I want to do sports and he can go from awesome to horrible very quickly. There was one obedience seminar this year where I was extremely impressed with him, but there are many many more classes where I was so disappointed. When he gets focused on other stuff and tunes me out, he *really* tunes me out and it's so frustrating. I'm not only frustrated with him, some of his issues would be far better or non-existent if we had been able to work through them while he was young (like being off leash in classes), but we didn't have the opportunity or facilities to do that. Now he's older and more independent minded and an insane adolescent and it's hard to figure out how to address those issues (especially since we still lack access to the facilities and instruction that I think we need).

Anyway. Yes, I talk my dog down. He's the best dog ever, but I'm hard on myself and him sometimes.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> This!! I hear so many BC people claim that it takes such a special kind of person to train a BC, and only "crazy people" (like themselves) would get a BC for obedience or agility because they are so different to train.
> 
> Seriously? No, only crazy people try to train extremely independent breeds for advanced obedience. People who want a leg up get BCs or other herders.
> 
> Not saying it's super easy to train BCs either, but overall it's a heck of a lot easier to train any dog who is extremely smart *and* bred to work closely with you and take direction. I just refuse to believe that it's so much harder to train a BC. Maybe some of them are hard to live with, but that's a whole different thing,



Border Collie hype irritates the ever loving snot out of me.

I am not the most experienced person with the breed and am not claiming I am, but. I've met some who can't stop moving and settle to save their lives. I have met some who are OCD or anxious. I have met many who are reactive to various things in varying degrees. What I haven't met is one who isn't interested in working with people or who is stupid/slow to learn. I really have no doubt that it's easy to teach them things you don't want them to learn (like to never stop moving). I'm absolutely sure they are not a dog someone who doesn't want to train should own, because they WILL learn whether you want them to or not, and they WILL find things to do.

But overall, they are so, so not hard dogs to train to do any freaking thing you want. I ADORE Molly because of it, and she's all kinds of wicked fun but 'special owner' my butt. I really meant it when I said she could be successfully owned by anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together who was interested in doing some training with their dog and had a moderately active lifestyle. I don't know if she counts since her father had some ACD in the mix, but seriously, seriously, she is the easiest puppy I have ever raised. Even easier than Kylie, because her temperament's more stable.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I get frustrated with my Mom's take on her heelers... they're GOOD dogs, SMART dogs, but she constantly calls them stupid, says they get into too much crap, and that if I had the space and no cats she'd willingly hand over Shenzi because she is 'too much' for my Mom. I DON'T GET IT - Shenzi is AWESOME, her energy is fierce and amazing, she's fun to work with, has a great attention span for training, but all she was taught to do is sit and shake a paw... I brought Toby to my grandmothers for Thanksgiving last year and had him doing simple things - sit, leave it (he was sitting on a diningroom chair at the table), speak, just normal 'basic' stuff - and my brother (who lives with my Mom) was giving me the evil eye and saying he hates me because my bulldog is so much better behaved than his dogs. 

SO TRAIN THEM!! Realistically - his heelers should be able to do way more than my bulldog could ever learn to do.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

> This!! I hear so many BC people claim that it takes such a special kind of person to train a BC, and only "crazy people" (like themselves) would get a BC for obedience or agility because they are so different to train.


eh, I think some of this may be not so much "different to train" as can be difficult to handle. many BCs(not all) are so fast and so focused that if you are not 100% on the ball, you are screwed. there is a BC like this in the group I train with, the dog is not nuts or difficult in general by any means.but she is EXTREMELY fast and EXTREMELY focused on her job, to the point that her handler needs to be 100% in sinc with her and the slightest lapse in her handlers timing with completely screw the dogs chances. it is not "easy" to run a dog like that. this dog's handler loves to let other people handle her dog just for giggles, even the head of the group who is a nationals level handler with other breeds CANNOT handle that dog.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

BostonBullMama said:


> I get frustrated with my Mom's take on her heelers... they're GOOD dogs, SMART dogs, but she constantly calls them stupid, says they get into too much crap, and that if I had the space and no cats she'd willingly hand over Shenzi because she is 'too much' for my Mom. I DON'T GET IT - Shenzi is AWESOME, her energy is fierce and amazing, she's fun to work with, has a great attention span for training, but all she was taught to do is sit and shake a paw... I brought Toby to my grandmothers for Thanksgiving last year and had him doing simple things - sit, leave it (he was sitting on a diningroom chair at the table), speak, just normal 'basic' stuff - and my brother (who lives with my Mom) was giving me the evil eye and saying he hates me because my bulldog is so much better behaved than his dogs.
> 
> SO TRAIN THEM!! Realistically - his heelers should be able to do way more than my bulldog could ever learn to do.



There is, admittedly, this whole contingent of people who believe that if you own a smart dog you don't have to teach them to do things - they'll just know. Somehow.

Sounds like your brother's in that camp and I think it'd make me want to strangle him, too.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Miss Bugs said:


> eh, I think some of this may be not so much "different to train" as can be difficult to handle. many BCs(not all) are so fast and so focused that if you are not 100% on the ball, you are screwed. there is a BC like this in the group I train with, the dog is not nuts or difficult in general by any means.but she is EXTREMELY fast and EXTREMELY focused on her job, to the point that her handler needs to be 100% in sinc with her and the slightest lapse in her handlers timing with completely screw the dogs chances. it is not "easy" to run a dog like that. this dog's handler loves to let other people handle her dog just for giggles, even the head of the group who is a nationals level handler with other breeds CANNOT handle that dog.


Now I do agree with that. Any dog that is fast and hyper focused can be a challenge to control in agility. I've seen in in classes a couple times, though with an aussie and golden actually.

I think that's probably more of an issue in agility though, and the people I was referring to are obedience people. They were more complaining about their dog picking up subtle cues that they didn't intend or over thinking behaviors, but I feel like that's easier to work with than a dog who just doesn't care, or is very hard to keep focused. I'd rather focus on the precision of my training and not whether my dog will pay attention to me today or not. Maybe BCs present some interesting challenges for obedience training, especially compared to non-herding breeds, but I just won't believe that it is harder to train a BC than, say, a beagle, for high level obedience.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

> I think that's probably more of an issue in agility though, and the people I was referring to are obedience people. They were more complaining about their dog picking up subtle cues that they didn't intend or over thinking behaviors, but I feel like that's easier to work with than a dog who just doesn't care, or is very hard to keep focused. I'd rather focus on the precision of my training and not whether my dog will pay attention to me today or not. Maybe BCs present some interesting challenges for obedience training, especially compared to non-herding breeds, but I just won't believe that it is harder to train a BC than, say, a beagle, for high level obedience.


obedience people? lol training breeds like a BC in obedience absolutely DOES present some unique challenges sometimes, but they are hardly difficult...you just have watch yourself because they will learn things you didn't mean to teach. IE I know a person with a BC who was teaching their BC to jump through a tire jump by throwing a ball through it..the dog learned the wrong thing however, and when she was given the command while coming back with the ball, the dog skidded to a halt in front of the tire and tossed the ball through it... Happy has always looked for "loopholes" to commands, ie at one point while teaching her "sit, stay" she started wandering around doing her own thing.... while scooting her butt as to remain in the sit position lol I mean..technically she didn't break the sit. in that sense it absolutely can be easier to train breeds that won't "over think". but again, that doesn't make them outrageously difficult to train, it makes then super easy to train, you just gotta head some things off sometimes lol


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Border Collie hype irritates the ever loving snot out of me.
> 
> I am not the most experienced person with the breed and am not claiming I am, but. I've met some who can't stop moving and settle to save their lives. I have met some who are OCD or anxious. I have met many who are reactive to various things in varying degrees. What I haven't met is one who isn't interested in working with people or who is stupid/slow to learn. I really have no doubt that it's easy to teach them things you don't want them to learn (like to never stop moving). I'm absolutely sure they are not a dog someone who doesn't want to train should own, because they WILL learn whether you want them to or not, and they WILL find things to do.
> 
> But overall, they are so, so not hard dogs to train to do any freaking thing you want. I ADORE Molly because of it, and she's all kinds of wicked fun but 'special owner' my butt. I really meant it when I said she could be successfully owned by anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together who was interested in doing some training with their dog and had a moderately active lifestyle. I don't know if she counts since her father had some ACD in the mix, but seriously, seriously, she is the easiest puppy I have ever raised. Even easier than Kylie, because her temperament's more stable.


I happen to think that people making fun of those who believe their breed is "mystical" is equally annoying. 

Just saying. Face it, there ARE some breeds who aren't for the faint of heart.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I happen to think that people making fun of those who believe their breed is "mystical" is equally annoying.
> 
> Just saying. Face it, there ARE some breeds who aren't for the faint of heart.


Ah, but the faint of heart isn't the same thing as a new owner, or inexperienced. Hell, faint of heart varies. I'm pretty faint of heart about some things and not others. I've said before and will say again, I can't do retrievers. So, you know. No. I won't face it because I don't buy it. Not even a little bit. I think it's just an ego trip for people who want to feel good about their dog skills, and that's ALL it is. Not that all dogs are fits for all owners or anything but 'YOU MUST HAVE EXPERIENCE AND THESE DOGS ARE UNIQUELY HARD EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT A SINGLE UNIQUE TRAIT'? Naaaah. Not a thing to do with reality. 

See, if that were true there'd be beginner dogs, who are one size fits all and would be great in any household. AND all 'beginner' dog people would have to want more or less the same thing out of a dog and have the same personalities (the people). Since neither of those are true, and there are no one size fits all breed or dog type OR one-size fits all dog OWNER? There *can't* be advanced dogs who are only for srs. bsness dog owners - no matter who those dog owners are or what their lifestyle might be.

So, we'll just have to both carry on being annoyed.

Just sayin.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> obedience people? lol training breeds like a BC in obedience absolutely DOES present some unique challenges sometimes, but they are hardly difficult...you just have watch yourself because they will learn things you didn't mean to teach. IE I know a person with a BC who was teaching their BC to jump through a tire jump by throwing a ball through it..the dog learned the wrong thing however, and when she was given the command while coming back with the ball, the dog skidded to a halt in front of the tire and tossed the ball through it... Happy has always looked for "loopholes" to commands, ie at one point while teaching her "sit, stay" she started wandering around doing her own thing.... while scooting her butt as to remain in the sit position lol I mean..technically she didn't break the sit. in that sense it absolutely can be easier to train breeds that won't "over think". but again, that doesn't make them outrageously difficult to train, it makes then super easy to train, you just gotta head some things off sometimes lol


Hate to say it but I would have expected Manna to find those loopholes (and she has found the sit one I haven't trained a tire jump) , and she's hardly a BC. That's a smart dog thing, not a BC thing.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

So really? You'd recommend something like a Corso or any of the other large mollosars to a first time dog owner? Because those are breeds that most experienced dog people can't even handle.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Flaming said:


> Hate to say it but I would have expected Manna to find those loopholes (and she has found the sit one I haven't trained a tire jump) , and she's hardly a BC. That's a smart dog thing, not a BC thing.


There is seriously not a single, solitary thing present in BCs that aren't present in other dogs. The combination those traits are found in is different, but the sum total of difference between raising Molly and raising Kylie has been that Molly is more confident, and picks up verbal cues faster. I am absolutely willing to readdress this later and as Molly ages, because she is sure as heck not finished yet - but she is pretty much 'a confident, smart dog, who is motion sensitive and likes to play and learn a WHOLE LOT and is really surprisingly physically coordinated and fast for her age' That pretty accurately sums up a whole lot of dogs. I mean, again, not claiming she's interchangeable with another dog or a BC is interchangeable with a poodle or whatever, but pretty much.... they're kinda basically dogs. 

And they run the gamut from the ones I know in agility and around. Down to and including some pretty derpy, not too bright ones here and there. You take the average of the breed you end up somewhere different, maybe, but as individuals?

Dogs.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Miss Bugs said:


> obedience people? lol training breeds like a BC in obedience absolutely DOES present some unique challenges sometimes, but they are hardly difficult...*you just have watch yourself because they will learn things you didn't mean to teach.* IE I know a person with a BC who was teaching their BC to jump through a tire jump by throwing a ball through it..the dog learned the wrong thing however, and when she was given the command while coming back with the ball, the dog skidded to a halt in front of the tire and tossed the ball through it... Happy has *always looked for "loopholes" to commands,* ie at one point while teaching her "sit, stay" she started wandering around doing her own thing.... while scooting her butt as to remain in the sit position lol I mean..technically she didn't break the sit. in that sense it absolutely can be easier to train breeds that won't "over think". but again, that doesn't make them outrageously difficult to train, it makes then super easy to train, you just gotta head some things off sometimes lol


See, these are some of those things I just think are just dog things. Squash is the best/worst at it in my house, but literally every dog I have ever lived with has done stuff like this.



OwnedbyACDs said:


> I happen to think that people making fun of those who believe their breed is "mystical" is equally annoying.
> 
> Just saying. Face it, there ARE some breeds who aren't for the faint of heart.


There are some individuals of every breed who are for the faint of heart. I've yet to meet a breed that across the board I think is so special that only really super special people could ever own them. There are lots of breeds I wouldn't care to own, but there's a difference between not _wanting_ to deal with certain characteristics and not being _capable_ of dealing with certain characteristics.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

sassafras said:


> There are some individuals of every breed who are for the faint of heart. I've yet to meet a breed that across the board I think is so special that only really super special people could ever own them. There are lots of breeds I wouldn't care to own, but there's a difference between not _wanting_ to deal with certain characteristics and not being _capable_ of dealing with certain characteristics.


Much more clearly and succinctly said that I managed, but *that*. With maybe a side of not thinking so highly of myself or poorly of 'other people' that I believe I am unique in that. I still hammer home typical breed traits that might be problematic for anyone -anyone- who doesn't want to deal with them and isn't prepared, but I don't think they're incapable by virtue of not having had a dog before, a dog of that breed before, or some level of experience that arbitrarily certifies them "Capable of Owning A Serious Dog".

And, yeah, I would and absolutely have recommended individuals of difficult breeds to first time dog owners when I did rescue - adopted those 'difficult' dogs out to 'em, too. Why? Because it was the right fit between the dog and owners and what they were looking for. They were informed, they understood the breed, and *I* knew the individual dog. I'm pretty sure I even went with the first time home over the experienced one once or twice, because they were the better fit, with better references and more up to date information on dog training and behavior. Experience level really just wasn't a level.

Was sometimes! But for individual dogs. Dogs who needed someone experienced with shut down dogs, dogs who had been abused, dogs who were feral, dogs with particular health issues. Even then it came behind things like 'has a quiet home' 'doesn't have other pets or want them' 'no kids'. An experienced home with 5 kids and 4 cats would lose out to the inexperienced one with no other pets and adult kids, when talking about a very fearful dog and who despised/tried to kill cats. Experience counts for very, very little when it comes to the fit between a dog and home, IMO. The home itself and dog itself and personalities, resources and commitment count for a whole lot more.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> So really? You'd recommend something like a Corso or any of the other large mollosars to a first time dog owner? Because those are breeds that most experienced dog people can't even handle.


If a first-time dog owner were committed to doing whatever the dog needs, contacting the proper professionals if/when necessary, doing all research so they know what to expect, have met several representatives of the breed, maybe have a knowledgable mentor in the breed to help them along (not that that always works out :/), is willing to learn about training and different methods and techniques, then, yes, I would certainly recommend them over some guy who's had 15 different dogs who all got loose and shot by the neighbors, who thinks he knows everything about dogs and his "training" consists of a few kicks to the ribs. . .yeah. It depends on the owners and not the dog.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

To be honest, I've never actually really encountered this "Border Collie hype" that everyone's talking about. This is most likely because I've never really been in the agility/obedience/othersports crowd, so I've never really heard of (or thought of) Border Collies being any kind of a big deal. Popular for dogsport trainers? Yes, absolutely. Awesome for a variety of venues? Yep. But Super Special Snowflakes? Not really, and I don't think I've ever heard of them being put on a pedestal. 

The one dog breed that I do see frequently hyped up is the Belgian Malinois. Some of it is warranted, some of it isn't. I don't think they're Super Special dogs either, but here's the thing (about this breed and any other dog that gets hyped up) - when I warn people about breeds or certain types of dogs, it's not because I think they're bound to be physically and mentally unable to handle this dog. I can't call that, I'm just a stranger on the internet. But what I DO know is how I would personally feel as a dog owner, and my experience as a first time owner with a difficult dog that I insisted on getting. I always let people know that it's not an impossibility - if I could do it, as a 15 year old with limited time, no experience, and no dog knowledge, then they probably could, too. It's not about physical ability or a certain amount of experience, but more so what you want to and are willing to live with. If you're willing to make potentially big compromises and can accept all sorts of quirks and surprises... then I guess I don't see what the big deal is about certain breeds. Of course, what someone _says _they're willing to do and what they're actually willing to put up with, when it comes to it, can be two different things altogether. But only they would know. 



CptJack said:


> As a complete reversal on the original topic:
> 
> Does anyone else talk their dogs DOWN? Because I do this in some circumstances - either underestimating or overplaying their flaws. Mostly in situations like Sass mentioned, where someone is being overly critical of their own dog or unfavorably comparing their dog to mine. Sometimes, though, I admittedly just do it as part of performance anxiety. Ie: I set the bar REALLY low for us.


Yes, all the time. Out and about, we get a lot of people who want to meet Trent and tell me what a great dog he is, how sweet and friendly he is, and wow, so well behaved! I usually laugh at that point and say "only sometimes". That's not a knock on my own dog though - it's absolutely true!! The only difference is that what most people would interpret as "badly behaved" actually is just Normal Dog Behavior to me. Some of the things that Trent does makes me laugh while other dog owners will probably look on in horror, and when I tell people he's only sometimes well behaved, it's more of me just saying "so hey, if he starts acting like a turd at any moment, don't be surprised". Because if he were a sweet, well behaved dog, it wouldn't be the Trent I love! But to also be fair to him, he IS often a very well behaved dog in public and at home.

I also know that online (forums and Facebook), I sometimes talk negatively about Trent, though it's ALWAYS in a joking manner. But sometimes that's because the bad things he does are amusing to me, and other times it's because I'm firmly convinced that Every Other Dog out there is better behaved and better trained LOL The thing is, though, that isn't actually something that bothers me. Our relationship is awesome, I clearly love this dog, and he's perfect for me.


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## theairedale (Jul 15, 2014)

Just thought I'd mention this (don't want to start anything, just putting it out there)... Airedales are on the list of breeds not suitable for first time owners, but we're doing fine! He definitely has times where he makes me question the decision of having him, but that happens with lots of dogs. I think the most important thing is patience and to be willing to ask for help and then implement that. It's the effort, really. I'm sure if others weren't willing to put in the time to train him, he'd be a nightmare. For sure there are some breeds with traits that a lot of people wouldn't _want_ to deal with, but at the same time, there are people who value those same traits and are prepared to put in the time for it. I know I wouldn't do well with some breeds.. I think it's more about how much effort a person puts in...


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> So really? You'd recommend something like a Corso or any of the other large mollosars to a first time dog owner? Because those are breeds that most experienced dog people can't even handle.


Well, frankly I don't really like recommending most breeds to first time dog owners. I'm not going to recommend a Labrador or a Golden Retriever when it turns out they're really looking for a Pug-like dog. I very rarely make recommendations unless someone's looking for something very specific, and I can immediately think of a dog that fits the bill.

And if a Corso was the dog I thought of... why not? I don't know what this person can or cannot handle. 



sassafras said:


> There are some individuals of every breed who are for the faint of heart. I've yet to meet a breed that across the board I think is so special that only really super special people could ever own them. There are lots of breeds I wouldn't care to own, but there's a difference between not _wanting_ to deal with certain characteristics and not being _capable_ of dealing with certain characteristics.


Okay, just ignore everything I posted in my gigantic comment above and read this instead  Fully agreed.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

I don't know. Some of those sport bred BC's I think take some seriously special (crazy?) people. Also, some LGDs... those are just scary in the wrong hands.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> So really? You'd recommend something like a Corso or any of the other large mollosars to a first time dog owner? Because those are breeds that most experienced dog people can't even handle.


I've actually known a few first time dog owners who own some mollasar breeds, and have done really well. New dog owner doesn't = stupid.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I don't know. Some of those sport bred BC's I think take some seriously special (crazy?) people. Also, some LGDs... those are just scary in the wrong hands.


Sports Bred BCs for me aren't about the breed, though, they're about the breed*ing*. Which makes a difference to me - lines exist in various breeds for various reasons and there's a lot of disparity between them. I'd still be okay with someone who *wanted* what sportsbred BCs are (who had met them, and had a support system) getting one, though, even if it was their first dog. 

LGDs are weird. I wouldn't recommend them to someone who was urban or suburban. I wouldn't recommend someone who thought they were getting a, as someone here once described them, white golden retriever. I wouldn't recommend them to someone who wanted to do obedience or wasn't sure about their capacity for providing training.

But... none of that's related to experience, you know? Like if someone wants a dog on their farm to act as a pet and deter predators away from their goats - I don't care if they're a first time dog owner. What they are looking for is a LGD.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Ultimately, I can explain my issues with these attitudes that some dogs are only for 'experienced dog owners' is this:

Not every dog is a fit for every home or every person. That's not in dispute. Neither is the fact that training skills improve with time.

But you don't LEVEL UP in dog ownership. You aren't assigned points for owning a starter breed for x amount of years, after which you may advance to the next level of dog. You are not awarded 'elite status' for owning a "difficult" breed. Someone who has found that the breed that best fits them is a toy poodle is not a 'lesser' dog owner than someone who has found the breed that best fits them is a, I dunno, mal. The toy poodle is not a lesser dog than the mal, or whatever else. 

And those are the two implications from 'experienced home only' dogs and 'suitable for beginner' ones: That beginner owners are inferior to experienced homes (No) or that commonly recommended 'easy' breeds are inferior to more difficult ones.

You know what makes someone a superior dog owner? What they do with their dog, how they care for it, the ability to work through troubles that arise and how happy everyone is with the arrangement.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

sassafras said:


> See, these are some of those things I just think are just dog things. Squash is the best/worst at it in my house, but literally every dog I have ever lived with has done stuff like this.


Summer doesn't. Because she's perfect. But Mia is definitely a dog that looks for every possible loophole. It's pretty frustrating sometimes but you can't half ass with her because she'll hold you to your word forever. Summer is not like that so I doubt it is a breed thing. Summer is not an independent thinker and Mia is. 

Shelties are supposed to be very smart. Yeah no. Poor Trey. He was the dumbest dog we owned. JR was also very dumb and he was probably a BC/collie mix. Shack, the GSD x was brilliant. Nikki the sheltie was very smart. Mia (papillon) is brilliant. Summer is biddable. I'm not sure she's 'smart' though. My trainer calls her the Barbie dog. She's kind of a total ditz. Just all do and no think. She makes me look like a brilliant trainer though.

I'm not sure breed plays into intelligence at all to be honest.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

CptJack said:


> Ultimately, I can explain my issues with these attitudes that some dogs are only for 'experienced dog owners' is this:
> 
> Not every dog is a fit for every home or every person. That's not in dispute. Neither is the fact that training skills improve with time.
> 
> ...


We need a hail smiley.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah. I've met some first-time dog owners who would have been great with an Alaskan Klee Kai, and I've met some experienced dog people who would absolutely hate living with one because they prefer the friendly, stereotypical golden retriever temperament over the general aloof/often shy AKK temperament. 

Someone who wants to do a lot of outdoor stuff with their dog off-leash is probably better off going with a BC than a Siberian husky. It's not that they couldn't handle a sibe; it's that a sibe just wouldn't fit them as well. Someone who would be fine with jogging with their dog tethered to them could do well with a sibe. Someone who wants to walk for 15 minutes a day likely wouldn't do well with either breed. Whether they're experienced or a first-timer doesn't factor into that stuff at all.

I have a friend who's never owned a dog of her own before, but she has a psychology degree and we've talked training before; she's very interested in how dog training uses a lot of the concepts she studied in school. She'd be willing (and very likely!) to read tons of training stuff and train using positive methods. I'd rather give her a dog than give it to someone who'd owned five dogs and trained them all using force. Sometimes the inexperienced people can be better owners _because_ they're blank slates.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Equinox said:


> I also know that online (forums and Facebook), I sometimes talk negatively about Trent, though it's ALWAYS in a joking manner.


Oh, I JOKE about them all the time. But I don't seriously talk them down.



ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I don't know. Some of those sport bred BC's I think take some seriously special (crazy?) people. Also, some LGDs... those are just scary in the wrong hands.


_Any_ dog is scary in the wrong hands.



CptJack said:


> Ultimately, I can explain my issues with these attitudes that some dogs are only for 'experienced dog owners' is this:
> 
> Not every dog is a fit for every home or every person. That's not in dispute. Neither is the fact that training skills improve with time.
> 
> ...


Yes, a million times. If someone is committed, flexible, open to learning and able to problem-solve then I think they are capable of owning pretty much any dog on the planet. Again, it doesn't mean they WANT to own pretty much any dog on the planet, but I think that kind of stuff is WAY more important than the specific breed someone is considering.


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## xena (Oct 3, 2013)

My fellow dog walkers are actually opposite ☺ I like to ask about their dogs and they like to talk about mine ☺ is it unusual? Lol ☺ I'm especially in love with one great dane- oh I love this dog, even mine can be jealous of attention sometimes ☺ but he loves great dane even more than me, so...


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

I never said those traits were UNIQUE to border collies, I said "dogs like BCs", Gem is very much that way as well and she has no BC in her lol. However I have had dogs that were not like that at all, my Toller for example was very "by the book", she never ever looked for "loopholes" or learned anything I didn't mean to teach her, if you read a how to list and it says "do this, and dog will do this" that was Baby, very push button snd easy to train precisely because she never thought outside of the prescribed box. THOSE dogs are the absolute easiest to train, and what I think of when I hear such statements. Not "only this breed does this". Gem spent half her puppyhood finding loopholes to anything I taught her lol.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Even if there are no "magical" breeds, there are bred in traits. I'm still not going to suggest to a first time dog owner (even well researched and a decent "fit") that getting a Malinois is a swell idea. If I owned a BC as my first dog, that dog would have been doomed. 

I DO think that there are breeds that are "harder" than others. Are they breeds that only amazing special snowflakes can own? No. I DO think that only dog experienced and well researched people should own them.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

There is also the factor that, if a person has never owned a breed before, no matter how much experience they have, they still technically a "first timer" in respect to [insert name here] breed.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I have to honestly say I have yet to meet a Belgian of any variety that has struck me as an easy dog. A lot seem flighty and pretty reactive and all of them pace and don't seem to settle. Incredibly animated and lots of drive and stamina. They're kind of odd ducks to me. Most the Belgians I know are related though. 

BCs though, I know a ton of them. Some are really high drive and high energy intense dogs. Some on the other hand are positively the most mild mannered, attentive, and calm dogs I know. It really does depend on the individual. 

Cattle dogs are pretty similar to me. Some very high octane but honestly I see more cattle dogs lacking drive than over the top with drive. 

If someone has a Rose then gets a Mia, they're going to be shocked because the two are worlds apart and not at all the same to live with.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> There is also the factor that, if a person has never owned a breed before, no matter how much experience they have, they still technically a "first timer" in respect to [insert name here] breed.


Yeah? Everyone starts somewhere. Before Ma'ii, I had zero experience with herding breeds let alone ACDs. All the dogs I had owned prior were hounds, malamutes, and little fluffy small breed mixes of various sorts. People warned me about what I was "getting into", but after doing colossal amounts of research, talking to other dog owners and really thinking it through, I found I wanted to go through with it anyways. And not to toot my own horn, but I've handled this "very difficult, not for the faint of heart" dog breed beautifully. I've found them to be a LOT easier then my hounds.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I have to honestly say I have yet to meet a Belgian of any variety that has struck me as an easy dog. A lot seem flighty and pretty reactive and all of them pace and don't seem to settle. Incredibly animated and lots of drive and stamina. They're kind of odd ducks to me. Most the Belgians I know are related though.
> 
> BCs though, I know a ton of them. Some are really high drive and high energy intense dogs. Some on the other hand are positively the most mild mannered, attentive, and calm dogs I know. It really does depend on the individual.
> 
> ...


Ha, it's not that they lack drive, it's that they think they are getting short changed in the rewards department xD. That's the handlers fault, not the dogs.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Aheeeeeeeee!!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> There is also the factor that, if a person has never owned a breed before, no matter how much experience they have, they still technically a "first timer" in respect to [insert name here] breed.



Yep, and since they've never owned that individual dog ever before, every dog owner is technically a "first-time owner"! Um. . .whats the point here?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

No, I don't think you can blanket say that any issue in every dog of a breed is for sure ____. I know plenty of herders of various types that are low to mid energy, very sensible, biddable and overall yeah... easy dogs. I also know a lot that are over the top, obsessive, high drive, and high energy. And loads of in between. 

My friend has an ACD. I've talked about her before because she's pretty much the best dog ever. She's like Summer only sensible and with some dignity. LOL She is very eager to work but not traditionally 'drivey' at least in an agility standpoint. She runs happy and moderate speed. Mid level energy. I'm sure she could go a long time if you wanted but she's never over the top. Very animated little dog and so smart. She has a bit of edge to her with other dogs but other than that she is a doll.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

As far as putting my dogs down goes, I have a lot of people who say, "Of course your dog is good. You own LASSIE!"

Well, they weren't "Lassie" when I got them as pups. It took YEARS to get them this way.

And talk about looking for loopholes! I tell them that a smart dog does NOT equal an obedient dog. In fact the smart dogs may be harder because they think their way around what you want them to do. And collies can be STUBBORN!

I want to educate people who don't understand breed traits, which as I see it,is basically the odds of getting a particular personality trait, before they go and get a dog that will potentially not be a good fit for them.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

One of the most mellow, low key, easy going dogs I've ever met in my entire life was a champion stock driving border collie.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> No, I don't think you can blanket say that any issue in every dog of a breed is for sure ____. I know plenty of herders of various types that are low to mid energy, very sensible, biddable and overall yeah... easy dogs. I also know a lot that are over the top, obsessive, high drive, and high energy. And loads of in between.
> 
> My friend has an ACD. I've talked about her before because she's pretty much the best dog ever. She's like Summer only sensible and with some dignity. LOL She is very eager to work but not traditionally 'drivey' at least in an agility standpoint. She runs happy and moderate speed. Mid level energy. I'm sure she could go a long time if you wanted but she's never over the top. Very animated little dog and so smart. She has a bit of edge to her with other dogs but other than that she is a doll.


Summer doesn't have dignity? Whaaaaat? 

No, really, a good ACD sometimes has too much dignity, like simple things and cutesy tricks are beneath them ha ha. Izze was super smart, she knew enough to come and get me when fiancee had been trampled by a cow years back, then protected a five foot circle around us until I was able to stand him up and lead him out of the pen (he got the breath knocked out of him and fractured his back and three ribs). But learn how to play dead, shake, or anything else like that? Nope xD

Your friends ACD sounds like a "laid back" one (that's pretty much as laid back as they get). Izze ' s parents were high drive working ranch cattle dogs much like the ones at Spade ACDs (though he only had the one pair of dogs) so she was what I would call very "over the top" as far as drive, and very unforgiving of handler mistakes, in many ways, she had a very similar temperament to a malinois.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

No one ever seems to remember that farm dogs don't need to work 8 hours a day, every day, year round. There are periods of long, hard days yeah. And months when they do very, very little.

How many farmers do you know who are going to go out during the 'off season' (ie: when livestock moving is minimal and daily chores with the dogs might be an hour or so) to run their dogs for four + hours? Or baby sit them to keep them from tearing the farm apart?

They SHOULD have an off switch, and a good one. Some of the breeding is moving away from that and a lot of owners condition the dogs to need to go-go-go, but they *shouldn't* be unable to settle down and chill out without nearly endless work, entertainment or exercise.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> No one ever seems to remember that farm dogs don't need to work 8 hours a day, every day, year round. There are periods of long, hard days yeah. And months when they do very, very little.
> 
> How many farmers do you know who are going to go out during the 'off season' (ie: when livestock moving is minimal and daily chores with the dogs might be an hour or so) to run their dogs for four + hours? Or baby sit them to keep them from tearing the farm apart?
> 
> They SHOULD have an off switch, and a good one. Some of the breeding is moving away from that and a lot of owners condition the dogs to need to go-go-go, but they *shouldn't* be unable to settle down and chill out without nearly endless work, entertainment or exercise.


Agreed, a farm dog that invented their own jobs would likely be culled (literally). But too many breeders, especially in sport, and especially the malinois breeders are breeding away from an off switch, and that's what make some working dog people say the ACD is "useless" because they are one of the few working and herding breeds who still have an off switch. 

Though I have been told that I would do well with a malinois, but the only thing that stops me is the rate of fearfulness/nervousness within the breed.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Summer doesn't have dignity? Whaaaaat?


Have you met Summer?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> Have you met Summer?


Lol even dignitaries can cut loose sometimes xD


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Ha, it's not that they lack drive, it's that they think they are getting short changed in the rewards department xD. That's the handlers fault, not the dogs.


You've obviously never met the ACD's that want nothing more than to sit in your lap.... and if you throw a tennis ball for them, that's cool too, but really can they just sit in your lap please? Or tummy rubs? Tummy rubs would be acceptable too.

There are definitely ACDs out there without drive.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> There are definitely ACDs out there without drive.


Yes, yes there are. I ended up adopting an ACD out to an apartment home (the one I thought about when I mentioned adopting hard dogs out to less 'experienced' homes because they were the better fit and have talked about him before) with NO dog experience at all. I fostered this 18 month old dog for a good 3 months because I wanted to be sure it wasn't an adjustment period. Nope. All the dog wanted to do was lay around on the couch and snuggle. No prey drive, no desire to chase anything, SOFT-SOFT-SOFT, hung on every word, super gentle, super -yeah, I'm gonna say it- easy dog to live with and train. 

And honestly, while that's not common most of the ACDs in our agility class are biddable, pretty easy dogs. Steady, stable, not as soft as most of the BCs, but not even a little bit hard to train or manage. And, come to that, that applies to the working dogs I know, too. Yeah, they require consistency but we've been over how many other dogs will look for loopholes and do things like scoot around on their butts, right? What I WILL say about most of the ones I know is that they are CAPABLE of taking harsher treatment, old-style training and corrections better than dogs of other breeds (well, most dogs of other breeds?). That's a far cry from needing it, though.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Rowdy said:


> As far as putting my dogs down goes, I have a lot of people who say, "Of course your dog is good. You own LASSIE!"
> 
> Well, they weren't "Lassie" when I got them as pups. It took YEARS to get them this way.
> 
> ...


It's easy to say that when you are a member of the great collie conspiracy


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Equinox said:


> The one dog breed that I do see frequently hyped up is the Belgian Malinois. Some of it is warranted, some of it isn't. I don't think they're Super Special dogs either, but here's the thing (about this breed and any other dog that gets hyped up) - when I warn people about breeds or certain types of dogs, it's not because I think they're bound to be physically and mentally unable to handle this dog. I can't call that, I'm just a stranger on the internet. But what I DO know is how I would personally feel as a dog owner, and my experience as a first time owner with a difficult dog that I insisted on getting. I always let people know that it's not an impossibility - if I could do it, as a 15 year old with limited time, no experience, and no dog knowledge, then they probably could, too. It's not about physical ability or a certain amount of experience, but more so what you want to and are willing to live with. If you're willing to make potentially big compromises and can accept all sorts of quirks and surprises... then I guess I don't see what the big deal is about certain breeds. Of course, what someone _says _they're willing to do and what they're actually willing to put up with, when it comes to it, can be two different things altogether. But only they would know.


I think this is the first time on here I've read a post saying Malinois aren't Super Duper Special Awesome. And I wholly agree. They're just dogs. 

I've written before that Malinois are kept as pets around here, which is met with disbelief (both here and on other forums) but it's true. Malinois are common dogs where I'm from, and I regularly see Dutch shepherds too. They're not Super Special rainbow pooping dogs that can only be owned by Special Amazing dog owners. They're just dogs. Active dogs, true, and they want to do stuff and generally, they aren't prone to laze around all day and do be prepared to be kept on your toes, but they're really not all they're hyped up to be on the internet. Personalities vary, from dogs that are go-go-go and hyper to mellow and easy and everything in between. 

After Charlie died and we decided we wanted a new dog, we also checked out Malinois and Dutch shepherds that entered shelters because you know what? They can be great dogs. And me and my family really aren't super duper special. We're not a working home, or a sports home, we're just a pet home. And I know the right Malinois or Dutch shepherd would do great here. 

Some years ago before we owned dogs ourselves, we had a Malinois X staying over a couple of weeks while the owners were on holiday. That dog is the reason my dad fell in love with shepherds. Presto, was his name. I'd love a dog like that again, someday... if I hadn't had my heart set on a sighthound, lol.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think the problem is that a lot of American-bred Malinois are from sports/police work lines. Bitework and all that. So they deliberately breed the more intense dogs so they have a nuttier bite sport dog. I'm sure in the places where the dog is more common, there are more breeders going for a balanced dog, a better pet, etc.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Willowy said:


> I think the problem is that a lot of American-bred Malinois are from sports/police work lines. Bitework and all that. So they deliberately breed the more intense dogs so they have a nuttier bite sport dog. I'm sure in the places where the dog is more common, there are more breeders going for a balanced dog, a better pet, etc.


I was thinking something like this as well. I've never seen a Mal as just a pet here, either in real life or on TV. I have only ever seen them as police dogs or doing bitework.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yes, yes there are. I ended up adopting an ACD out to an apartment home (the one I thought about when I mentioned adopting hard dogs out to less 'experienced' homes because they were the better fit and have talked about him before) with NO dog experience at all. I fostered this 18 month old dog for a good 3 months because I wanted to be sure it wasn't an adjustment period. Nope. All the dog wanted to do was lay around on the couch and snuggle. No prey drive, no desire to chase anything, SOFT-SOFT-SOFT, hung on every word, super gentle, super -yeah, I'm gonna say it- easy dog to live with and train.
> 
> And honestly, while that's not common most of the ACDs in our agility class are biddable, pretty easy dogs. Steady, stable, not as soft as most of the BCs, but not even a little bit hard to train or manage. And, come to that, that applies to the working dogs I know, too. Yeah, they require consistency but we've been over how many other dogs will look for loopholes and do things like scoot around on their butts, right? What I WILL say about most of the ones I know is that they are CAPABLE of taking harsher treatment, old-style training and corrections better than dogs of other breeds (well, most dogs of other breeds?). That's a far cry from needing it, though.


That kind of temperament isn't per the breed standard, though. Neither is "no off switch" in some of the other breeds like BCs and malinois.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Neither is "no off switch" in some of the other breeds like BCs and malinois.


Whhhhaaaat? As CptJack said earlier, what use around the farm is a BC who can't ever settle down?


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> That kind of temperament isn't per the breed standard, though. Neither is "no off switch" in some of the other breeds like BCs and malinois.


But we're not talking about dogs that are only "bred to standard"....? If you're only recommending dogs based on the temperatment "by standard", then that is a huge problem because a large portion of dogs (maybe even majority? I don't know) in a lot of breeds _aren't_ bred to standard, simply by the number of puppy mills, BYBs, and less responsible/ethical breeders that exist. Saying "X breed shouldn't be Y" doesn't help anyone, and it especially doesn't help the less experienced owners who are constantly told "All goldens are friendly with everyone" who then adopt a golden who happens to have fear of DA issues.


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## xena (Oct 3, 2013)

Oh the purpose of the dog shouldn't rely on its breed but on his own personality and abilities, that good breeder is able to determine sometimes in early age, when their personalities are shaping- some pups of litter would be good for show, some for work/sport, some for family pets. Mine is not pure gsd or pure lab. He's just a crossbreed but shows that his real purpose wouldn't be really to be a pet, I think he would be great working dog if people didn't rely on certain breeds- only this breed or that breed can do that. He ended up as a pet and it has some consequences for us, he's a bit more difficult and once he grew up previous owners couldn't deal with it. he always looks for something to do, can't just go out and simply run around, sniffing grass or something like some dogs. If I don't give him a job, a purpose he will find it himself. What can drive me mad sometimes in search&rescue or sniffing dogs is something they look for in a dog.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> But we're not talking about dogs that are only "bred to standard"....? If you're only recommending dogs based on the temperatment "by standard", then that is a huge problem because a large portion of dogs (maybe even majority? I don't know) in a lot of breeds _aren't_ bred to standard, simply by the number of puppy mills, BYBs, and less responsible/ethical breeders that exist. Saying "X breed shouldn't be Y" doesn't help anyone, and it especially doesn't help the less experienced owners who are constantly told "All goldens are friendly with everyone" who then adopt a golden who happens to have fear of DA issues.


The context in which I recommend a breed depends on the person, I wouldn't recommend a golden to a person who would obviously be happy with a malinois or one of those other "crazy" breeds. I certainly wouldn't be happy with a golden or any other other "go to" family or beginner breeds. But I am also not going to recommend a breed go a person who I know couldn't handle it.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Foresthund said:


> Gotta love the old school days my dog is tougher than yours skit which unfortunately still resigns in the back pockets or comment sections of the internet. Which I now avoid.
> 
> Now days I get more people bragging how huge their Rottweiler is compared to mine,something I couldn't care less about. Also some breeds can get more of the ego-maniacs,mainly of Border Collies,Belgian Malinois,APBT and GSD.


Oh yeah, all the time. Also the "My dogs could kick the shit out of your dog" comments. To which I usually reply "Well, I could give you some training advice so your dog isn't so unruly" That usually gets a questioning look on their face as I walk away. 

The truth is though... My dogs are better then any other dog, to ME. Just like everyone else has their feelings on how wonderful THEIR dog is to THEM.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Now it's more "my dog is smarter than your dog" or "my dogs does this" or in the case of breed specifics: my terrier can out hunt yours. My herding dog can out herd yours etc ...


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Inga said:


> Oh yeah, all the time. Also the "My dogs could kick the shit out of your dog" comments. To which I usually reply "Well, I could give you some training advice so your dog isn't so unruly" That usually gets a questioning look on their face as I walk away.


Love that!



> The truth is though... My dogs are better then any other dog, to ME. Just like everyone else has their feelings on how wonderful THEIR dog is to THEM.


Ah, but so many people (mis)place their self-worth on being better than others.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

cookieface said:


> Love that!
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, but so many people (mis)place their self-worth on being better than others.


I used to train service dogs and I also trained my own dogs to do tasks. Then after I was so sick, I sort of slacked off. I had 2 rescues and a foster so... I didn't do as much with them. Then one of my fosters (who never left) became a spoiled brat. He does the basic "stupid pet tricks" like shake, high five and has great basic obedience Heel, come, sit, down, stay etc.... but nothing "extra" People who know my dogs now that knew my past dogs are forever saying "too bad these dogs are not as smart as your old dogs" I always say, "they are just as smart as my old dogs but I was too lazy" but they just don't get it. One gets out of their dogs what they put into them as far as training. Mine are great dogs in their own right but beyond, rolling over, playing dead and retrieving etc... they are not "special" to anyone else. ha ha That is fine with me.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

It irks me when I asked a breeder ( a GSD breeder) about her pups. She told me I could not get one of her magical pups because she only sells to working homes because her GSD come from working lines. BS My chihuahuas do more work on my farm in one day than her GSD do in a week. I have found out she does nothing with her dogs but tells a great story about her dogs. To top it all off the inquiry about her pups was for someone I know that just lost their GSD and was looking for a replacement dog. 

I was asking a RR rescue about adopting a dog from them. Oh according to them, that breed was magical and could only be owned by certain owners. I told them I lived on some acreage and spent a lot of time outside with my dogs. I was told by them these dogs would take off. Not according to a co-worker that had them as a youngster/teenager growing up in Africa with the real deal. 

I so wanted to go and get some magical dogs to show these people how wrong they are. I did not because I turned up the self control valve in my body. But one day that valve might get turned down a bit. I want magical dogs to go with my magical beans and the venture we would go on would be so magical. The end


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Inga said:


> I used to train service dogs and I also trained my own dogs to do tasks. Then after I was so sick, I sort of slacked off. I had 2 rescues and a foster so... I didn't do as much with them. Then one of my fosters (who never left) became a spoiled brat. He does the basic "stupid pet tricks" like shake, high five and has great basic obedience Heel, come, sit, down, stay etc.... but nothing "extra" People who know my dogs now that knew my past dogs are forever saying "too bad these dogs are not as smart as your old dogs" I always say, "they are just as smart as my old dogs but I was too lazy" but they just don't get it. One gets out of their dogs what they put into them as far as training. Mine are great dogs in their own right but beyond, rolling over, playing dead and retrieving etc... they are not "special" to anyone else. ha ha That is fine with me.


I love training my dogs to do little tasks, not for me, but just to keep them occupied and who knows, if I ever DO need it, its good that my dogs know it 



luv mi pets said:


> It irks me when I asked a breeder ( a GSD breeder) about her pups. She told me I could not get one of her magical pups because she only sells to working homes because her GSD come from working lines. BS My chihuahuas do more work on my farm in one day than her GSD do in a week. I have found out she does nothing with her dogs but tells a great story about her dogs. To top it all off the inquiry about her pups was for someone I know that just lost their GSD and was looking for a replacement dog.
> 
> I was asking a RR rescue about adopting a dog from them. Oh according to them, that breed was magical and could only be owned by certain owners. I told them I lived on some acreage and spent a lot of time outside with my dogs. I was told by them these dogs would take off. Not according to a co-worker that had them as a youngster/teenager growing up in Africa with the real deal.
> 
> I so wanted to go and get some magical dogs to show these people how wrong they are. I did not because I turned up the self control valve in my body. But one day that valve might get turned down a bit. I want magical dogs to go with my magical beans and the venture we would go on would be so magical. The end


there's that word again ... "magical" :/


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

This is the reason my dog is better than yours.  hehe


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