# Are there some dogs you never can trust off leash?



## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Just wondering if you believe there are some dogs that can just NEVER be trusted off leash.

I really wish Jackson was more reliable off leash. The thing with him is... he'd probably be okay 90% of the time, but it's that other 10% that he gets something in his mind where he just wants to run and totally ignore me, no matter what treat I have in my hand.

We've been working a lot more on recall. I put him on a long 50 foot rope line and let him out to explore, then call him, he comes, he gets a treat. He's never been called 'come' to do something bad like a bath, etc. He pretty much gets a treat every single time he comes into the house... just because he came in the house even if he didn't do anything. 

We live on 3 acres, and the 3 acres is mainly the front yard on a big hill, the road is at the bottom of the 3 acres. Our 'backyard' which we don't own is 90 acres of farmland and there is woods backing up to the farm field, but behind those woods is a neighborhood. He's gotten loose maybe three times in this past year and he's always come back to me thankfully. He's not a door darter, he knows stay and listens very well. It's when guests are usually over and a door gets left open and he decides to just walk out.

It's when I used to GIVE him the freedom (before he turned a year old) that he would scare me. He'd be doing all fine, just chilling around and exploring, not straying too far, and all the sudden... he just takes OFF. He did this 4-5x before I just decided_ no_ more off leash, it's not safe enough. So he's been on the 50ft line since. I would say he got worse after my moms dog passed away, who was always off leash, and after he turned 1 year old. He will be 2 in October. Does age have anything to do with it? Or is he just being a typical terrier? What more training can I do to really perfect his recall? Or is he never to be trusted?


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

I don't know.. My girls will be fine until they see someone or something that they aren't used to. On our last off leash expedition at the lake, our neighbor arrived home and was getting out of his car, the girls saw him and raced over barking their heads off. Maggie was the worst.. When I called out to them Zoey came running back, but then when she heard and saw Maggie still over there barking she went back. I think for my girls it will just be getting them used to things like that.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Just wondering if you believe there are some dogs that can just NEVER be trusted off leash.
> 
> I really wish Jackson was more reliable off leash. The thing with him is... he'd probably be okay 90% of the time, but it's that other 10% that he gets something in his mind where he just wants to run and totally ignore me, no matter what treat I have in my hand.
> 
> ...


I wish I could help you. I trained all 3 of my dogs differently in that respect. Dude was taught that he wouldn't dare bolt or else he would be throttled when I caught up with him (it worked, but I don't recommend it). Auz was 11 months when he was given fence free and leash free freedom, but I took a toy he goes bonkers for with me and kept him engaged. (The toy appeared outside the fence only; and was put away when we were inside the fence). Tag got rewarded with his primary motivator (food) ANY time he reoriented to me, so he has always stuck beside me hoping for a hand out. What would you say is Jacksons primary motivator?
ETA: Forgot to add! Does Jackson ever voluntarily "check in" with you when he's outside? Have you read Control Unleashed?


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

My biggest concern for my nearly five-year-old is his prey drive...which has recently become a major issue. =( The only time he is off leash and outside a fence is on my family's farm when we go home to visit. Most of the time his recall is okay, but it's like OP said, that other 10%... Throughout obedience training, I've noticed that he DOES NOT make eye contact with me and is very easily distracted. I've tried different things to remedy this, but to no avail. Honestly, the only time he watches me is when I'm eating or have something he thinks is for him to eat. We are getting ready to go back to obedience school after two years away, so maybe things will be different. I ordered Control Unleashed (along with a few other recommended books) last week and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.
My 10-month-old CO, on the other hand, is VERY attentive 99% of the time and has great eye contact. That other 1% of the time, she looks me straight in the face, suddenly seems completely deaf, and goes on her merry way....she will be starting formal obedience work soon, as well. =)


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I would never trust Smalls off leash and it is not for lack of effort. That dog runs her own show.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Lloyd is only reliable outside off leash if I have a ball on me, if I have a ball nothing else exsists though, so it kinda makes training against distractions difficult because he is so focused on the ball he doesn't even know anything else is around. Indoors he has a perfect recall (like in a petstore around the ferrets/rabbits and stuff he will completely ignore them and do as I say). 

Does Jackson like to play tug? If so, considering he is a terrier, maybe you should try getting a rabbit fur tug (clean run sells them and I'm sure other places do too). That may be the thing you need. Another thing that helps is to hide from them, but I would only do this in a fenced area. When the dog gets distracted by something, hide. Some dogs it works great, some don't care at all though, lol. I play a game with both my boys where they know I have their favorite toy (the chuck it!), I put them into a downstay, run and hide and then I wistle for them. They have to come find me. When they get to me (I don't require a formal recall here) I immediately chuck the ball and then I run away, so if they want to play more fetch they then have to come find me again.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't trust Maisy off-leash. A good scent or the sight of a squirrel and her brain starts leaking out her ears, which apparently clogs them up and makes her unable to hear me.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

My biggest concern for my nearly five-year-old is his prey drive...which has recently become a major issue. =( The only time he is off leash and outside a fence is on my family's farm when we go home to visit. Most of the time his recall is okay, but it's like OP said, that other 10%... Throughout obedience training, I've noticed that he DOES NOT make eye contact with me and is very easily distracted. I've tried different things to remedy this, but to no avail. Honestly, the only time he watches me is when I'm eating or have something he thinks is for him to eat. We are getting ready to go back to obedience school after two years away, so maybe things will be different. I ordered Control Unleashed (along with a few other recommended books) last week and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.

*I don't think you'll be disappointed  I ADORE the CU program, and I think it really made a difference in the way I handle my dogs, and it's made me a 110% better handler. *
My 10-month-old CO, on the other hand, is VERY attentive 99% of the time and has great eye contact. That other 1% of the time, she looks me straight in the face, suddenly seems completely deaf, and goes on her merry way....she will be starting formal obedience work soon, as well. =)

*10 month old CO? I am in love! That's my dream breed *


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

I will never trust Kimma off-leash. If we go to a field or pond or something, she gets the 30' lead and she's fine. It's more a breed thing than anything... Finnish Spitz are very husky-like in their independence. She's not even allowed in my yard without supervision. I know that she would gladly dig under the 6' wooden fence to go after a bird or something, LOL. Heck, she's tried before while I've been there 

Actually, even when she was younger and most pups go through an "I can't be without Mom/Dad phase," she just did her own thing. It is her way, and I knew that going in to owning the breed.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Shandwill said:


> My biggest concern for my nearly five-year-old is his prey drive...which has recently become a major issue. =( The only time he is off leash and outside a fence is on my family's farm when we go home to visit. Most of the time his recall is okay, but it's like OP said, that other 10%... Throughout obedience training, I've noticed that he DOES NOT make eye contact with me and is very easily distracted. I've tried different things to remedy this, but to no avail. Honestly, the only time he watches me is when I'm eating or have something he thinks is for him to eat. We are getting ready to go back to obedience school after two years away, so maybe things will be different. I ordered Control Unleashed (along with a few other recommended books) last week and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.
> My 10-month-old CO, on the other hand, is VERY attentive 99% of the time and has great eye contact. That other 1% of the time, she looks me straight in the face, suddenly seems completely deaf, and goes on her merry way....she will be starting formal obedience work soon, as well. =)


Yes, if Jackson sees a squirrel or a rabbit... he is OFF on a mission. THAT is what scares me. Because he's not looking at anything but what he's chasing. 



melgrj7 said:


> Does Jackson like to play tug? If so, considering he is a terrier, maybe you should try getting a rabbit fur tug (clean run sells them and I'm sure other places do too). That may be the thing you need. Another thing that helps is to hide from them, but I would only do this in a fenced area. When the dog gets distracted by something, hide. Some dogs it works great, some don't care at all though, lol. I play a game with both my boys where they know I have their favorite toy (the chuck it!), I put them into a downstay, run and hide and then I wistle for them. They have to come find me. When they get to me (I don't require a formal recall here) I immediately chuck the ball and then I run away, so if they want to play more fetch they then have to come find me again.


He does like to play tug indoors, but not obsessively. It's not one of his favorite things to do. He can be weird in a sense... like he LOVES to play fetch inside of our house, or whoevers house, and in our backyard. But take him to a dog park, or an open field, or whatever... and he looks at you like you're nuts. Like "why would I go and fetch that?" LOL. He only does it indoors or in my yard. Crazy. He has never shown any interest in fetch, or tug, etc, if we're outdoors somewhere more interesting. 

I'll have to try that hiding thing. I think it might work with him. He's always real interested in me if I'm doing something unusual. I think I saw Victoria Stillwell do this once... she had the owners lay on the ground and the dog was curious. 



sassafras said:


> I don't trust Maisy off-leash. A good scent or the sight of a squirrel and her brain starts leaking out her ears, which apparently clogs them up and makes her unable to hear me.


I'm glad I'm not the only one!



Finkie_Mom said:


> I will never trust Kimma off-leash. If we go to a field or pond or something, she gets the 30' lead and she's fine. It's more a breed thing than anything... Finnish Spitz are very husky-like in their independence. She's not even allowed in my yard without supervision. I know that she would gladly dig under the 6' wooden fence to go after a bird or something, LOL. Heck, she's tried before while I've been there
> 
> Actually, even when she was younger and most pups go through an "I can't be without Mom/Dad phase," she just did her own thing. It is her way, and I knew that going in to owning the breed.


Yeah, that's what I was wondering. If certain breeds just CANNOT be trusted. I know most terrier breeders will tell you, or have on their website, "Terriers are not to be trusted off leash!" but of course I do believe every dog is different as well.



LazyGRanch713 said:


> My biggest concern for my nearly five-year-old is his prey drive...which has recently become a major issue. =( The only time he is off leash and outside a fence is on my family's farm when we go home to visit. Most of the time his recall is okay, but it's like OP said, that other 10%... Throughout obedience training, I've noticed that he DOES NOT make eye contact with me and is very easily distracted. I've tried different things to remedy this, but to no avail. Honestly, the only time he watches me is when I'm eating or have something he thinks is for him to eat. We are getting ready to go back to obedience school after two years away, so maybe things will be different. I ordered Control Unleashed (along with a few other recommended books) last week and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.
> 
> *I don't think you'll be disappointed  I ADORE the CU program, and I think it really made a difference in the way I handle my dogs, and it's made me a 110% better handler. *
> My 10-month-old CO, on the other hand, is VERY attentive 99% of the time and has great eye contact. That other 1% of the time, she looks me straight in the face, suddenly seems completely deaf, and goes on her merry way....she will be starting formal obedience work soon, as well. =)
> ...


I'm going to look into this Control Unleashed! Is it a book?

I wanted to add, I'm also going to hopefully be getting him into agility classes beginning in October, and it's all fenced in and safe, but I'm hoping it helps us with our off leash training.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

For me, it really depends on where we are. If we're in town walking around the neighborhood, then no, I don't trust Kit off leash. She'd be in the road in a flash if she spotted a squirrel. But if we're out of town and hiking somewhere, or at a dog park without a fence, then I trust her. She might see something there that excites her prey drive as well, but I don't care very much if she decides to chase a squirrel thru the woods - as long as she's not going to get hit. She knows better than to lose me and is constantly checking my whereabouts to make sure that doesn't happen. She has never taken off thru an open door (has been given plenty of opportunity) and I'd be shocked if that ever occurred.

Yes, control unleashed is a book. It's an interesting read, although I found large parts of it to be sort of N/A for me (at least with the current dog), because it's geared toward highly reactive dogs. I think everyone could probably get something out of it, though.


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## hachna (Jul 31, 2010)

Hi,

I think terriers can be off leashed with some training and with maturity. I find a lot of fox terriers are off leashed a d following their owners. My minis can be off leashed as his recall is pretty good and he does not seem to have strong prey drive, while my s/tzu can not be off leashed as he is dog aggressive and reactive towards moving objects. I also understood that beagles can not be off leashed as they are very scent driven.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Define "trust".

With the exception of dogs suffering significant adjustment or temperament issues, pretty much any dog can be off leash. The rub is that some dogs can never be trusted out of your sight. Many dogs will come look for you if they lose contact. Others will take that occasion to assume there is no controlling legal authority, and strike out for the great beyond.

But yeah, any non-insane dog can be trained to reliably obey 4-5 commands.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

i thought iorek would never be allowed off leash. when we first got him at 4 1/2 months he was never outside before we took him. grrrrr! training him outside was nearly impossible. everything outside was way more exciting than even the juiciest piece of steak. he was never really food motivated and toys only had draw for a little while.

but, now that he is 2 1/2 years old and he is used to "outside" he is doing much better. i think having brom helped iorek as well. brom is not 100% on recall but we didn't really do much training with that yet. they play on 100 foot leads at the ball field and they will come back nearly every time they are called. only 2 times they didn't come back. once i am pretty sure iorek saw an animal of some sort, probably a rabbit, and another time a helicopter flew over and brom had never seen one before so they both took off running after it. :rollseyes: haha! but, with the leashes they can only get so far. 

anyway, iorek is doing MUCH better now and i just ordered control unleashed too. i can't wait to get it!


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> For me, it really depends on where we are. If we're in town walking around the neighborhood, then no, I don't trust Kit off leash. She'd be in the road in a flash if she spotted a squirrel. But if we're out of town and hiking somewhere, or at a dog park without a fence, then I trust her. She might see something there that excites her prey drive as well, but I don't care very much if she decides to chase a squirrel thru the woods - as long as she's not going to get hit. She knows better than to lose me and is constantly checking my whereabouts to make sure that doesn't happen. She has never taken off thru an open door (has been given plenty of opportunity) and I'd be shocked if that ever occurred.
> 
> Yes, control unleashed is a book. It's an interesting read, although I found large parts of it to be sort of N/A for me (at least with the current dog), because it's geared toward highly reactive dogs. I think everyone could probably get something out of it, though.


Yeah, I would never let him off in a neighborhood with cars, etc. But it would be nice to go walk the path around the farmfield and into the woods a bit with him off leash (the darn 50ft line always finds something to get caught on). I have the best place for exploring, etc, and we've been doing it with the 50ft line for now. Here's a video where you can see our backyard view, as well as Jackson off leash last year. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRKzB3iWFUY

You can see the woods back there, etc, and then where you see the fire pit burning... behind there is a horse farm, and then on the opposite side is another horse farm about a mile down the grass. He found his way into the horse fence a few times... scared me half to death, and I'm not even sure how he got in there. Like literally, he would be doing what you see him doing in the video, just chilling around us, chasing butterflies, etc, and then something gets into him and BAM... he's off running and he's so fast, I don't even see where he goes half the time. It's just such a large field. 



hachna said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think terriers can be off leashed with some training and with maturity. I find a lot of fox terriers are off leashed a d following their owners. My minis can be off leashed as his recall is pretty good and he does not seem to have strong prey drive, while my s/tzu can not be off leashed as he is dog aggressive and reactive towards moving objects. I also understood that beagles can not be off leashed as they are very scent driven.


Thanks, I'm glad to hear that. I am also hoping with age, it might get better, along with training of course. Like I said, he will be 2 in October.



Marsh Muppet said:


> Define "trust".
> 
> With the exception of dogs suffering significant adjustment or temperament issues, pretty much any dog can be off leash. The rub is that some dogs can never be trusted out of your sight. Many dogs will come look for you if they lose contact. Others will take that occasion to assume there is no controlling legal authority, and strike out for the great beyond.
> 
> But yeah, any non-insane dog can be trained to reliably obey 4-5 commands.


Jackson's not an insane dog at all or really hyper-active or anything. He's super smart and picks up things fast. He knows over 30 tricks, including the basic obedience commands, etc. So I know it's not that he can't be taught. I guess it's just a matter of me being able to trust him not to just randomly decide to run at lightening speed and turn his ears off so he can't hear me. We have a pretty tight bond and when we're in my dads fenced big back yard, I'm usually always in his sight, and he will follow me indoors. But again, he spots a bunny in the backyard or a lizard, he's off. And luckily can't get past the fence over there.



ioreks_mom said:


> i thought iorek would never be allowed off leash. when we first got him at 4 1/2 months he was never outside before we took him. grrrrr! training him outside was nearly impossible. everything outside was way more exciting than even the juiciest piece of steak. he was never really food motivated and toys only had draw for a little while.
> 
> but, now that he is 2 1/2 years old and he is used to "outside" he is doing much better. i think having brom helped iorek as well. brom is not 100% on recall but we didn't really do much training with that yet. they play on 100 foot leads at the ball field and they will come back nearly every time they are called. only 2 times they didn't come back. once i am pretty sure iorek saw an animal of some sort, probably a rabbit, and another time a helicopter flew over and brom had never seen one before so they both took off running after it. :rollseyes: haha! but, with the leashes they can only get so far.
> 
> anyway, iorek is doing MUCH better now and i just ordered control unleashed too. i can't wait to get it!


I'm really glad to hear of Iorek's progress with age!

The last time I voluntarily let Jackson off leash was during one of the big snow storms. He couldn't originally go very far, we had drifts of snow up to 4-5ft. So he was slow moving thru the snow. He did great for the first few days, wouldn't go far at all. And then one day, all the sudden, I was like "where the hell did he go?" and he was nowhere to be found. He was all the way down this hill through the woods, and barely could get back up it in that amount of snow, plus being so small, and going up hill *sigh*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l6007AbJ7w


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

I think any dog of any breed can be trained. But finding a way to work with that dog can be very different then another. Going to our dog park you can see every type of dog out there offleash, malamutes, huskies, irish wolfhounds, basset hounds, beagles, ect all with wonderful recalls.

Blaze was a breeze to train, I didnt really train him so to say. i got him when I was very irresponsible and young with out a care in the world. i would walk him all the time offleash, if he strayed a bit, id call him back. So it has worked with us. I can walk him all around our neighboorhood offleash and he wont go after a thing, rabbits, dogs, birds ect unless he is released. Which is good since we have tons of woodsy trails in walking distance with tons of wildlife.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

that is a really cute video of jackson in the snow! and, next time you grill i want an invite!!  that looked yummy!


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Yeah, that's what I was wondering. If certain breeds just CANNOT be trusted. I know most terrier breeders will tell you, or have on their website, "Terriers are not to be trusted off leash!" but of course I do believe every dog is different as well.


Yes, I do think that it does depend on the specific dog as well. I just know that with her particular breed, it's generally a lot more difficult to build that ultra-reliable recall. Not that I'm not trying, of course! I just don't really see the need to put it to the test anytime soon, hahaha. But we do have to be ready if we need a good recall in an emergency situation!

Her breed is more of a, "I will walk somewhere else and check in maybe every 5-10 minutes or so, depending on when exactly I feel like it," kind of dog. Well, at least that's how they are when they go hunting (they're great feathered game hunters).


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm going to look into this Control Unleashed! Is it a book?

*There's a book and a DVD. I haven't seen the DVD (yet..<g>) but I've read the book. It's really an outstanding program with a lot of new concepts, and it's why I never taught Tag the "watch me" command. He just does it, hoping to get a game going. *

I wanted to add, I'm also going to hopefully be getting him into agility classes beginning in October, and it's all fenced in and safe, but I'm hoping it helps us with our off leash training.

*HAve fun! You'll more than likely be addicted within 2.6 seconds. *


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> My biggest concern for my nearly five-year-old is his prey drive...which has recently become a major issue. =( The only time he is off leash and outside a fence is on my family's farm when we go home to visit. Most of the time his recall is okay, but it's like OP said, that other 10%... Throughout obedience training, I've noticed that he DOES NOT make eye contact with me and is very easily distracted. I've tried different things to remedy this, but to no avail. Honestly, the only time he watches me is when I'm eating or have something he thinks is for him to eat. We are getting ready to go back to obedience school after two years away, so maybe things will be different. I ordered Control Unleashed (along with a few other recommended books) last week and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.
> 
> *I don't think you'll be disappointed  I ADORE the CU program, and I think it really made a difference in the way I handle my dogs, and it's made me a 110% better handler. *
> My 10-month-old CO, on the other hand, is VERY attentive 99% of the time and has great eye contact. That other 1% of the time, she looks me straight in the face, suddenly seems completely deaf, and goes on her merry way....she will be starting formal obedience work soon, as well. =)
> ...


I can tell you the e-collar worked for my dog Hope, she is the same type that doesn't make eye contact and goes after anything that moves, she has killed 6 possums in my back yard this year.

Just this weekend for example I called her off mid chase from bolting after a deer, and had her heeling beside me and watching the deer under control, even several spotted fawns running around playing 50yds away, even without using the e-collar. Something I never thought I would be able to do, and I don't think I ever would have accomplished without the e-collar. The ability to get her attention when she is high prey drive has been invaluable.

The silly girl goes absolutely nuts with excitement when I put the collar on her and pick up the radio, because she knows it means a long off leash walk.. It's not set at a level that is painful, I put it on my own neck to make sure, but it does break her focus and allow me to get her attention.

So I think it is possible to trust any dog off leash, but some require stronger tools and methods than others.


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## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

I think there are dogs you could never trust. 
like my Jack, hes very independant and while he will always come back.......eventually, its a lost battle trying to get him back when YOU want. No more offleash for Jack.

Nellie on the other hand, I very much trust offleash. She is always right by me wherever we happen to be. I think the reason she wouldn't ever bolt is becuase of all her fear issues, I am her security blanket and she wouldn't dare lose sight of me, most things a normal dog would chase, Nellie would be afraid of. So, as soon as I say her name she comes trotting back to me easy as pie. 

Biscuit can also be trusted offleash, mostly becuase shes just too slow and elderly to have the effort to run, she does enjoy leasurly strolls around the yard offleash, and comes when called.

Aija is another story, that is something I just couldn't rely on her with yet, shes only nine months old and still has a bit of that "I dont wanna listen to you na-na-na-na-na" left in her, were gonna work like crazy though so I could at least have here offleash in the yard when shes older.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

Sorry but I happen to disagree with that terriers can't be trusted off leash. Working terriers are worked off leash and have amazing recalls and are stock broke. I have gone out with tons of working jrts over the years and all of them have excellent recalls while off leash. I have Jrts, ALL of them will call off critters and all have a recall and when out they are usually off leash, often I am out with several dogs off leash at once in an unfenced area and near a road. I have 'Off'd' them from chipmunks, squirrels, cats, wild turkeys, horses, cattle, strange loose dogs, and my neighbors poultry which is usually at my farm lol. My friend and I go for walks on her 400 acre farm in the woods and trails with at least a half dozen jrts off leash, all the dogs are trained and we have never had an issue. And all my dogs have loads of prey drive especially considering that I also hunt with them.


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## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

LynnI said:


> Sorry but I happen to disagree with that terriers can't be trusted off leash. Working terriers are worked off leash and have amazing recalls and are stock broke. I have gone out with tons of working jrts over the years and all of them have excellent recalls while off leash. I have Jrts, ALL of them will call off critters and all have a recall and when out they are usually off leash, often I am out with several dogs off leash at once in an unfenced area and near a road. My friend and I go for walks on her 400 acre farm in the woods and trails with at least a half dozen jrts off leash, all the dogs are trained and we have never had an issue.


I may be wrong here, but I don't think everyone said that All terriers cannot be trusted offleash, I think it is just implied that they take more work to have a reliable recall becuase of their prey drive, ect. My father also has a JRT that can be completely trusted offleash, while on the other hand I have a rat terrier who pretty much tells me to kiss his butt when I ask him to come. I think ALL dogs are individuals and take a massive amount of work to trust offleash, but terriers take a bit more, no one was bashing JRTs orany other terrier and saying they are untrustable. By the way, good job, it sounds like you did fabulous teaching all of those JRTs reliable recall.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

I don't think that anyone here said that all terriers can't be trained off leash, and I too have seen the countless websites/breeders/rescues etc that claim that they can't be trusted off leash and I was responding to that. I also agree that it takes a lot of work and training especially with an older dog. Pups are a lot easier to teach that there is more freedom in coming when called or checking in than not coming when called etc. Which is one of the reasons why I had success with so many, older dogs with solid trained recalls/off's, training pups right from the get go and letting the pups/other dogs also learn from the older dogs. All of it helps.
Controlled Unleashed is an excellent book and I wish I had had it years ago, would have made my job so much easier lol. But then there is something to be said about learning the hard way and figuring things out on your own too


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## hachna (Jul 31, 2010)

Hi LynnI
I am not sure in the states but in Sydney, NSW dogs are required to be on leash by law unless at the off leash dog parks. 
Does the book mention anything about leash fear or conflicting issues such as people who are fearful of dogs etc? Perhaps I can find review of the book. Anyway the book sounds very interesting and helpful at off leash dog parks.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

LynnI said:


> Working terriers are worked off leash and have amazing recalls and are stock broke. I have gone out with tons of working jrts over the years and all of them have excellent recalls while off leash. I have Jrts, ALL of them will call off critters and all have a recall and when out they are usually off leash, often I am out with several dogs off leash at once in an unfenced area and near a road. I have 'Off'd' them from chipmunks, squirrels, cats, wild turkeys, horses, cattle, strange loose dogs, and my neighbors poultry which is usually at my farm lol. My friend and I go for walks on her 400 acre farm in the woods and trails with at least a half dozen jrts off leash, all the dogs are trained and we have never had an issue. And all my dogs have loads of prey drive especially considering that I also hunt with them.


I'm more impressed with how you get a bunch of terriers together without fights breaking out all over.


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## Robrowe (Jan 25, 2010)

I dont have any issues off leash with Murphy. He even has learned to overcome the prey drive with practice and distractions. Not that he wont want to go chasing a squirrel or rabbit or bird etc it just took time to work past it. While I always have the leash with me on walks I seldom have it on. His only weakness is when another dog comes along and shows agression. If it doesnt show agression he is fine. He was trained to remain in the heel position and if we get to a more open area I have him sit first then release and a command that its ok for him to leave the heel position. I can command heel and he will return to heel position, close where he will come to within the reach of the leash although its not on or come and he returns and sits in front. I think most breeds can work past this, its just a matter of time dedicated and some may take more time than others.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

All my dogs were off leash dogs. I never had one that was not and never was told (until i came to this forum) that there were dogs that could not be trained to work off leash. Most of these past dogs were mixed breeds and one was a Husky/GSD cross. 

I never had the dogs out of sight.. but I had a farm and you cannot put the dog on leash and run a tractor. Most all these dogs also were broke to be off leash around horses and horse back riders. 

My dog Atka is off leash most of the time. That being said I will add she has also been the most difficult dog to get off leash. Not because of prey drive but because she just doesn't really care where I am. I do have a reliable DOWN on her and a reliable recall, so it works and she will walk in heel position and not take off. I can stop her. This dog was not easy. 

Questa is more normal and I think will be fine. She is off leash now quite a bit.


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## Mercy Medical (Jul 6, 2010)

We just started letting Vincent off leash this past weekend at my girlfriend's parent's house. They live on 5 acres, but it's kind of a square piece of land and they have a lot of different buildings spread out all over it and also have a pine tree "fence" surrounding their property (they live in a farm house and a development was built around it so they put up the trees for privacy). Vin has been there a decent number of times and the space behind their house, by the porch is kind of closed off with some trees and buildings. He did surprisingly well. I don't think at this point I'd let him off leash anywhere other then their house, just because it's familiar and mostly safe. The nice thing about Vincent is that he doesn't really dart or sprint at anything. He's a bit of an observer, so if he sees a bird or squirrel or something he'll mostly stare at it before he decides if he wants to chase it or not. He's also relatively good with his recall. I can typically call or whistle to him and he'll come. If that doesn't work, I can squat down, arms open and yell "VINNIE!" in that typically high pitched, excitable tone and he'll come.

My girlfriend's Mom said she was quite surprised that given the fact that he was a rescue and a stray he was able to be off leash so quickly. It also helps that they have a dog of their own and Vin will typically stay where ever Cooper stays.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Mercy Medical said:


> My girlfriend's Mom said she was quite surprised that given the fact that he was a rescue and a stray he was able to be off leash so quickly. It also helps that they have a dog of their own and Vin will typically stay where ever Cooper stays.


See, this is what happened with Jackson, I think. When my moms dog died, is when he began not being so trustworthy. I think he no longer had a dog to follow, and just does his own thing now. He was, again, fine when my stepdads friend brought over his Chocoalte Lab and they were fine off leash. Running into the fields and playing fetch, and coming right back, and laying down together with no fence or leash.


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## Mercy Medical (Jul 6, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> See, this is what happened with Jackson, I think. When my moms dog died, is when he began not being so trustworthy. I think he no longer had a dog to follow, and just does his own thing now. He was, again, fine when my stepdads friend brought over his Chocoalte Lab and they were fine off leash. Running into the fields and playing fetch, and coming right back, and laying down together with no fence or leash.


Yea, it makes it a bit easier. Vincent is always VERY interested in Cooper, even though Cooper couldn't care less about him...so he'll at least be following him around to pester him or steal tennis balls out of his mouth. It sort of makes Cooper the leash. Haha

I think I'd still trust Vincent in their yard without Cooper there, just because I've noticed he's actually pretty good with his recall when we're at the off leash dog park together. Granted, there is a fence surrounding the 3 acres of land so it gives me a bit of security about it, but still he typically comes when called, but I'm still cautious in a place that's 100% open.

We leave his leash on him when we let him wander, just so we have something we could step on or grab if he were to try and run off and it helps that I'm relatively quick and he's relatively lazy when it comes to running.


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