# Newbie needs some help with food choice please.



## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

hello everyone!

I have been reading on this most wonderfully informative forum for a few weeks. We got our precious Lucy (toy schnoodle) just 2 weeks ago, she is now 10 weeks. We are first time dog owners and I have NO IDEA what I am doing, LOL!

I am on a huge learning curve here on all things dog, so please bear with me if I ask a lot of questions. I am trying to find as much info in the forums archives as I can.

Right now I am concerned about choosing the proper food. The breeder had her on Life's Abundance, but I had decided that I wanted a grain free food from the very beginning to prevent allergies and hopefully prevent (or help) tear staining as she is an apricot. The boutique food store nearby offered me many choices and I chose NB grain free small breed (just a guess really). She has been on it since she got home with no problems except for one day of vomiting this week, which I think was from giving her few too many treats the day before. That has passed and she seems fine again. She eats well, although less than what the package says she should. She is about 3.5 pounds now, to be 10-12 pounds. She is eating about 1/8 cup 3 times a day. 

But as I am looking at other foods and comparing things here are my concerns:

1) The NB food is for puppy to adulthood, and I don't think it has as much protein as some pure puppy foods.

2) Am I doing her a disservice by starting her off on grain free when she has no evidence of allergies yet? (although I do think she is scratching and chewing her paws less than when I first got her. I also think the tear staining might be a tad better as well, but hard to tell.)

3) Is she eating enough and getting enough protein?

4) I am aware of the recent recall but also ties to this food and severe pancreatitis and even dog deaths ( really scares me).

She is very energetic, happy. I am no dog expert but she looks good to me. I have no experience to judge her coat, eyes and teeth.

Any information or advice you guys could give would be most appreciative. We are head over heels for Lucy and I want only the best for her.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I am currently feeding my small dogs Wellness Super5Mix for small breeds. I believe they make a puppy formula. My two Blu Boy and Eddee are 6 years and 1 year old. Leeo had pancreatic neucrosis and sorrowfully he could not be saved. Since Leeo passed I have been very diligent in trying to find a good food for the Schnauzer mix in them ... as Schnauzers are ... according to a very good vet and surgeon ... prone to pancreatic issues. I now try and stay with lower fat in their diets. I try and stay below 15% fat if possible.

I am thinking that I may switch to Wellness Core grain-free in a month or so. Not every dog does well on the same food. Also ... you can only do what you can do ... I just try and buy the best I can afford. But try and stay away from foods with wheat, corn, and soy in them if possible on your budget. Grain-free is the best IMHO. It is important that the first two-four ingredients include a real meat and meat meal ... not meat by products. Also stay away from ethoxyquin ... http://www.holisticvetpetcare.net/ethoxyquin.htm

Here is a place to look up different dog foods and their ingredients and ratings ... as well as you can sign up for free to receive dog food recall information in your e-mail.

www.dogfoodadvisor.com

Here is another site you may like. Everything is printable. I use it regularly for health information ... I keep a list of toxic food and plants on my fridge as well as the poison control center telephone number, vets number, and ER Vet Hospital number.

www.peteducation.com


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

1) IIRC all Natural Balance foods are fairly low in protein. It's still fairly good food, just lower protein content.

2) Not sure what you're asking. The idea behind grain free is just that Dogs digestive tracks aren't really meant to process grain, so grain free in general is just better.

3) It's not particularly abnormal to eat less than the recommended amount. As for protein, it's probably fine for her. Higher protein foods are said to cause growth spurts which are bad and can lead to skeletal development issues (although I would think it'd be more calcium that cause bone growth than protein). In large breeds that's a big concern, not so much in smaller dogs. In any case I don't think it hurts for her to be on a slightly lower protein diet as a puppy. When she's older you might want to switch to something with higher protein.

4) I know there are some people that want to stay away from brands that's had recalls and what not. In the end that's your choice.


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't really like NB. The only kibbles I'd feed at this point would be Orijen and Go! I feed raw right now. One thing you might want to look into are dehydrated foods if you don't want to do raw. Grandma Lucy's is the one I prefer. Ziwipeak and Real Meat Pet are even better! She's small do it probably wouldn't cost that much.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Abbylynn said:


> I am currently feeding my small dogs Wellness Super5Mix for small breeds. I believe they make a puppy formula. My two Blu Boy and Eddee are 6 years and 1 year old. Leeo had pancreatic neucrosis and sorrowfully he could not be saved. Since Leeo passed I have been very diligent in trying to find a good food for the Schnauzer mix in them ... as Schnauzers are ... according to a very good vet and surgeon ... prone to pancreatic issues. I now try and stay with lower fat in their diets. I try and stay below 15% fat if possible.
> 
> I am thinking that I may switch to Wellness Core grain-free in a month or so. Not every dog does well on the same food. Also ... you can only do what you can do ... I just try and buy the best I can afford. But try and stay away from foods with wheat, corn, and soy in them if possible on your budget. Grain-free is the best IMHO. It is important that the first two-four ingredients include a real meat and meat meal ... not meat by products. Also stay away from ethoxyquin ... http://www.holisticvetpetcare.net/ethoxyquin.htm
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your replay and this info.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

boxerlover876 said:


> I don't really like NB. The only kibbles I'd feed at this point would be Orijen and Go! I feed raw right now. One thing you might want to look into are dehydrated foods if you don't want to do raw. Grandma Lucy's is the one I prefer. Ziwipeak and Real Meat Pet are even better! She's small do it probably wouldn't cost that much.


Thank you for replying. May I ask what you do not like about NB?


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

zhaor said:


> 1) IIRC all Natural Balance foods are fairly low in protein. It's still fairly good food, just lower protein content.
> 
> 2) Not sure what you're asking. The idea behind grain free is just that Dogs digestive tracks aren't really meant to process grain, so grain free in general is just better.
> 
> ...


1) I have recently noticed this and wondering if she needs more protein only being 10 weeks old.

2) I was asking because of my lack of knowledge, LOL, I did not know if it was advisable to start out on grain free, or better to start her out on a more "regular" food and see what happens.

3) Thank you, this is helpful. It raised my eyebrows when i saw most other puppy formulas to have higher protein than this NB "all age" food.

4) yes, this highly concerns me. I just learned of the recall and the pancreatic issues 2 days ago, a week or so after having her on NB. She seems to be doing well on it for now, so I am not sure if I should wait a while, change her to a more "reliable" brand now, ask the vet, or what.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> Thank you for replying. May I ask what you do not like about NB?


They recently had a recall. I don't like the citric acid, beet pulp, potato starch, or pea protein. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of meat in there.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

boxerlover876 said:


> They recently had a recall. I don't like the citric acid, beet pulp, potato starch, or pea protein. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of meat in there.


yes, concerns of mine too as I get more educated. Can you recommend a good puppy grain free formula? (cost is really not an issue as I my kids are grown and I have the budget.) Thank you!

eta: i see your recs above; i will check them out, thank you!!


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> yes, concerns of mine too as I get more educated. Can you recommend a good puppy grain free formula? (cost is really not an issue as I my kids are grown and I have the budget.) Thank you!
> 
> eta: i see your recs above; i will check them out, thank you!!


You're Welcome! I also like Evo, forgot to mention it. I am pretty picky though. Out of all of those I would go with some kind of dehydrated. It's the next best thing to raw.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

I don't feed kibble anymore, and like some have mentioned, some foods work great for dogs while others do not; however since you are looking for recommendations based on experience or knowledge of good brands, I personally recommend Acana All Life Stages grain-free formulas (Wild Prairie, Grasslands, Ranchlands and Pacifica), Fromm's grain free, Timberwolf Organics grain free formula ( I think its called wild & free?) NOW! grain free, and I've also had good results in the past with Nature's Variety Instincts grain free formula's although I think I heard they recently had a recall as well.. though i'm not sure how alarming it is or was. All of these brands, after trying dozens, were by far my favs and had the best results with both my dogs when I was still feeding some kibble.

Good luck finding one that works for your pup! Cute BTW


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

what about this one: ( 40% protein seems awfully high, no?)

http://orijen.ca/products/puppy/ingredients


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> what about this one: ( 40% protein seems awfully high, no?)
> 
> http://orijen.ca/products/puppy/ingredients


It's fine. It just shows there is a lot of meat in there. Orijen is a great food to feed. You might want to add in some pumpkin when you switch though as its richer. Go very slowly.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I posted on the other thread that I don't like Natural Balance but if it's working for him, that's all that matters. I'm not a fan of NB because they have SO many different formulas; too many IMO. They've also had a recall, so...


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

So there is no such thing as too much protein? I thought I had read somewhere that it could cause problems. Please forgive my unending ignorance. I really want to do what's best for her. I appreciate your patience with me, all of you. Thank you.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> I posted on the other thread that I don't like Natural Balance but if it's working for him, that's all that matters. I'm not a fan of NB because they have SO many different formulas; too many IMO. They've also had a recall, so...


Yes, this has me considering a change........


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> So there is no such thing as too much protein? I thought I had read somewhere that it could cause problems. Please forgive my unending ignorance. I really want to do what's best for her. I appreciate your patience with me, all of you. Thank you.


Here is some more info ... about protein  ........ http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_focusing_on_protein_in_the_diet#.UDQAWKNif1I


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Abbylynn said:


> Here is some more info ... about protein  ........ http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_focusing_on_protein_in_the_diet#.UDQAWKNif1I


Not loving that they say dogs are omnivores...but pretty good.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

boxerlover876 said:


> Not loving that they say dogs are omnivores...but pretty good.


Yeah ... they contradict themselves a bit ... I think they are trying to stress that when canines eat prey ... for instance they catch and ingest a rabbit ... they are taking in plant matter. There are three pages to read ... it has been a while since I read all the way through this ... but that is what I remember. I came across this article when I was looking for a diet for Leeo. I was not sure about the protein and fat due to pancreatic issues.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Lucy Brees said:


> So there is no such thing as too much protein? I thought I had read somewhere that it could cause problems. Please forgive my unending ignorance. I really want to do what's best for her. I appreciate your patience with me, all of you. Thank you.


The talk of concern with high protein in puppies is that it could cause growth spurt which can lead to skeletal development issues like hip dysplasia. It's also claimed that feeding raw avoids growth spurts and makes puppies develop at a more steady pace. From a nutritional perspective, the two may seem contradictory but the idea of raw feeding is to "feed what nature intended" and is generally believed to be the best diet. Years of testimonials from experienced dog owners and breeders pretty much support the general idea. Although sometime reading about it almost makes it seem like the wonder food since it's better for pretty much everything. At the very least, it should be obvious that home made food uses much better ingredients than processed chicken meals.

The whole not giving puppies too much protein is all more of a preventative "just in case" kind of thing. If it's kibble I would probably avoid the 40% ones like orijen, evo, and instinct until she's an adult. I would probably keep it to at most the 33% range like Arcana. Going with a raw diet seems to be fine for puppies by all accounts so you could look into that as well. Switching to raw takes some research but there should be enough knowledgeable people and threads to help guide you.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you all for this great info! I am going to do more research and talk to my vet....

Grateful..:wave:


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> Thank you all for this great info! I am going to do more research and talk to my vet....
> 
> Grateful..:wave:


Just a tip, don't always listen to your vet about food. Especially when it concerns a raw diet.


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## Carlos8394 (Aug 12, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTWHxvjI_as
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdDPi-1Yjy0&feature=relmfu

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/


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## A-Blue-Roan (Aug 21, 2012)

The thing you need to remember is that K9's have been carnivores for many years before we started shapping them into the modern breeds we see today. A good quality food should have a decent amount of protien which should be labled first, derrivatives are not a bad thing and your doing the right thing choosing a grain free food. Dogs also have a hard time digesting veg as their digestive systerm is not designed to tackle veg (unless pulped or steamed) so the veg content should be a minimal. Higher veg content _can_ also count for larger sloppier and stinkier poo's! If at all possible avoid foods with food colourants.

If you change your dogs food do so by introducing the new stuff to the current meal as sudden changes can cause tummy upsets.

A Toy Schnoodle is a crossbreed or designer dog (toy poodle cross minni Schnauzer) 

As a beginner myself I asked about dog food but could never find one I felt was good for my dog so I chose to go raw in the end and have never looked back. Have a look on Amazon for K9 nutrition as I have learnt a lot from my book I can't say that I can recomend it as its more to do with raw feeding and home cooked diets.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Lucy Brees said:


> Thank you all for this great info! I am going to do more research and talk to my vet....
> 
> Grateful..:wave:


Unless you have a very open minded vet, don't expect much. I don't talk to either of my regular vets about what I feed my dogs. I know more than they do. If they had their way, I'd be feeding some crappy veterinary diet they sell.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> Unless you have a very open minded vet, don't expect much. I don't talk to either of my regular vets about what I feed my dogs. I know more than they do. If they had their way, I'd be feeding some crappy veterinary diet they sell.


Yes, I have been hearing this. I want to hear what he has to say about how much protein, and particularly fat she should have, since she is part schnauzer, and with those recommendations I will chose the best food I can find with the help of all the advice I have gotten here. Thanks!


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

A-Blue-Roan said:


> The thing you need to remember is that K9's have been carnivores for many years before we started shapping them into the modern breeds we see today. A good quality food should have a decent amount of protien which should be labled first, derrivatives are not a bad thing and your doing the right thing choosing a grain free food. Dogs also have a hard time digesting veg as their digestive systerm is not designed to tackle veg (unless pulped or steamed) so the veg content should be a minimal. Higher veg content _can_ also count for larger sloppier and stinkier poo's! If at all possible avoid foods with food colourants.
> 
> If you change your dogs food do so by introducing the new stuff to the current meal as sudden changes can cause tummy upsets.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much. I will take all of this to heart.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Carlos8394 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTWHxvjI_as
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdDPi-1Yjy0&feature=relmfu
> 
> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/
> http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/


 Thank you Carlos! These were abundantly informative. 

1) I am a little surprised that most folks don.t feed canned food since she said it next best after raw and better than kibble. 
2)I was looking at the premium canned foods on that chart and most are 8% protein where kibble is 21-40%. Wonder why that is? And does that mean if you feed canned they get less protein?
3) I was also surprised to hear that kibble does not clean the teeth. We are always told it does. Again, that makes me wonder why more folks dont used canned.
4) Is canned food used alone, or must it be mixed with dry or other sources of food?
5) I will be looking into the frozen and dehydrated raw as well. I need a lot more education on that.

Thank you again.


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## A-Blue-Roan (Aug 21, 2012)

Both tinned and kibble are complete foods it works out extra expensive feeding both but many owners like the idea of variety. I too was led to believe that kibble cleans the teath I guess that would depend on the kibble if it has food colourants in it then I would guess not. I have all ways been under the impression that tinned foods have a higher meat content then kibble. Most of what you find in kibble is meat known as meal rather then propper meat. 

As both are complete you can feed one or the other it doesn't need to be both. A good chew will do the trick for teeth cleaning (check its puppy suitable as none puppy ones can break the growing teeth) When the pup is older you could introduce the occasional raw bone from the butch would go down a treat!


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> Thank you Carlos! These were abundantly informative.
> 
> 1) I am a little surprised that most folks don.t feed canned food since she said it next best after raw and better than kibble.
> 2)I was looking at the premium canned foods on that chart and most are 8% protein where kibble is 21-40%. Wonder why that is? And does that mean if you feed canned they get less protein?
> ...


Canned food gets very expensive. Duke eats 3 cans a day of the Wellness 95% when he goes to shows. That's about $30 in 4 days! 

Canned foods have more protein in dry matter, but since water is added it upsets the levels. If it was dried out it would have more protein than kibble. Kind of hard to explain. 

Kibble doesn't clean teeth. It actually can help to build tartar as it has carbs, grains, and sugars in it. 

Canned can be used alone or with kibble. 

Have fun looking into raw and dehydrated. You won't regret going with either one! www.dogaware.com is a great website!


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

I would stay away from any food that has animal by products in them.

The best IMO is a non grain based food and our rescue does well on Blue Buffalo.

I knew it was a good food when my dogs fur started shining and her poop was consistently well shaped. We tried quite a few foods before that and nothing worked for us. BB is fairly affordable as well.


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

boxerlover876 said:


> Not loving that they say dogs are omnivores...but pretty good.


Well, I guess if left to their own devices they will hunt and kill smaller animals and eat them, including their stomachs' content. Which would likely contain grass, veggies and the like. So voila, omnivores .


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## A-Blue-Roan (Aug 21, 2012)

AgentP said:


> Well, I guess if left to their own devices they will hunt and kill smaller animals and eat them, including their stomachs' content. Which would likely contain grass, veggies and the like. So voila, omnivores .


Nope they would still be carnivores their stomachs are not designed to cope with a vegetarian diet as ours can. You can add veg to your dogs food provided its pulped or steamed first never boiled (boiling looses all the vitamins found in veg) if you gave a dog raw veg it often goes out the other end the way it went in, in the first place.


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## CCretarolo (Apr 10, 2011)

Here's one of the best videos on the subject that I've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5ZeNLUEHKY&feature=related

Dr. Karen Becker is one of the few vets out there that actually has nutritional education past what the pet food companies provide for veterinary schools. Yes, ALL of the nutritional knowledge that the average vet has comes directly from the major pet food companies. 

I personally feed an Ancestral diet (mimicking a wolf's diet) with some supplementation to account for the loss of nutrients due to the meat coming from factory farms and/or feed lots. My 8yo JRT/Manchester Terrier looks and acts as though he's at most half his age. He also happens to be one of the healthiest dogs in my (very dog friendly) neighborhood. What makes it even more impressive is that he was morbidly obese and most likely pre-diabetic (couldn't afford the blood test @ the time) when I first brought him home a year and a half ago. Although I'm not a vet, I can easily assume that the switch to raw gave him at least another 5 years of happy, active, and healthy life. 

I am more then happy to provide more resources if you're interested in finding out the specifics of a raw diet. It may seem intimidating at first but once you put it into practice, it really gets very simple. And please don't hesitate to ask me anything. I have about 4 years of experience feeding raw and do my absolute best to make sure that the information I give or link to is accurate and current.


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## A-Blue-Roan (Aug 21, 2012)

CCretarolo said:


> Here's one of the best videos on the subject that I've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5ZeNLUEHKY&feature=related
> 
> Dr. Karen Becker is one of the few vets out there that actually has nutritional education past what the pet food companies provide for veterinary schools. Yes, ALL of the nutritional knowledge that the average vet has comes directly from the major pet food companies.
> 
> ...


I am interested in learning more about the Ancestral diet as find that sort of thing interesting even though I feed a complete raw as I feel safer feeding a complete meal then trusting myself to make one up.


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

AgentP said:


> Well, I guess if left to their own devices they will hunt and kill smaller animals and eat them, including their stomachs' content. Which would likely contain grass, veggies and the like. So voila, omnivores .


If you actually go find a wolf or coyote kill you'll see that the stomach and intestines are actually left there and not eaten.


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

A-Blue-Roan said:


> I am interested in learning more about the Ancestral diet as find that sort of thing interesting even though I feed a complete raw as I feel safer feeding a complete meal then trusting myself to make one up.


www.preymodelraw.com that's the website I'm following as far as introducing and rotating. Duke's switched onto chicken, turkey, and quail without a hitch so far.


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## Irene V. (Dec 12, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> hello everyone!
> 
> I have been reading on this most wonderfully informative forum for a few weeks. We got our precious Lucy (toy schnoodle) just 2 weeks ago, she is now 10 weeks. We are first time dog owners and I have NO IDEA what I am doing, LOL!
> 
> ...


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you all so much for the help; it is truly appreciated. It seems Lucy does not love this current food, and is eating less than 3/4 cup a day on a good day; today she ate about 1/4 cup. She has plenty of energy (she is wearing me out in fact) and seems happy and poops a lot, formed but soft.

I do want to research raw, but in the meantime I want to put her on the best manufactured food I can. Since she is not eating much of this NB, do you suggest I change her now? I was considering the Oorijen puppy, grain free, high protein. The high fat content concerns me in re: to schnauzer's preposition to pancreatitis.

Do you guys have advice for my short term issue right now? Thanks!


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## boxerlover876 (Dec 31, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> Thank you all so much for the help; it is truly appreciated. It seems Lucy does not love this current food, and is eating less than 3/4 cup a day on a good day; today she ate about 1/4 cup. She has plenty of energy (she is wearing me out in fact) and seems happy and poops a lot, formed but soft.
> 
> I do want to research raw, but in the meantime I want to put her on the best manufactured food I can. Since she is not eating much of this NB, do you suggest I change her now? I was considering the Oorijen puppy, grain free, high protein. The high fat content concerns me in re: to schnauzer's preposition to pancreatitis.
> 
> Do you guys have advice for my short term issue right now? Thanks!


If you want changing to Orijen is great! Just do it very slowly. If she dgs diahreah just mix in some canned pumpkin, not pumpkin pie filling. It helps bulk up poop. I wouldn't worry about the fat level. It's all from good quality meats, not cheap things.


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## CCretarolo (Apr 10, 2011)

A-Blue-Roan said:


> I am interested in learning more about the Ancestral diet as find that sort of thing interesting even though I feed a complete raw as I feel safer feeding a complete meal then trusting myself to make one up.


I personally use a supplement to make sure that I'm giving a rounded diet. The brand I use is called Vetline and is only sold in one store near Portland, OR. They do ship to out of town customers though. Here's the link to get more info since there are 3 different canine formulas: http://www.holisticpetcenter.com/catalog.htm

I will say that one of my favorite things about this supplement is that the puppy and geriatric formulas include 5 animal sourced glandulars. So I don't have to worry about a strict feeding schedule and can just not supplement on days that I feed organs. It also contains garlic so I have yet to see a single flea this summer. 

And as boxerlover mentioned, preymodelraw.com is one of many good sites to get started on. I also strongly suggest joining the raw feeding for cats and dogs list on Yahoo. So far, it's been one of my go-to resources for the entire time I've been a member. Also, http://www.rawlearning.com/ was the site that helped me to make my final decision to feed exclusively raw (now about 4 years ago with cats). I still go and reread articles from time to time just to make sure that I don't go off track.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

If I should ever obtain another Schnauzer mix puppy they will be eating this ... http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=dog&pid=92 Scroll down and you can click on ingredients and analysis with percentages.

With any dog food each dog is an individual and not all dogs do well on every food. 

I just happen to like what the Wellness is doing for my two Schnauzer mixes right now. Their energy level is great and their coats look great ... no itching. Blu Boy is 6 years old this Sunday ... and the other one ... Eddee is just over a year old. Blu Boy is one who I have to be careful with due to some past issues with allergies. He is doing great! I am considering switching to Wellness Core this next rotation.

If they do not do as well on the Wellness Core as the grain inclusive ... back to the regular Wellness Super5Mix for my boys. 

No matter what food you choose to feed ... if you change foods ... do it very slowly to avoid digestive upsets. Have some plain yogurt and plain 100% pure pumpkin (not pie mix with spices in it) on hand before you begin your transition to the new food ... just in case the switch becomes an issue with loose stool or upset tummy.

I have tried Blue Buffalo, TOTW, Chicken Soup, 4Health ... canned and dry ... and Wellness has been the best so far for my dogs and within my budget.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Since she is not eating the NB very well should I go ahead and try a new kibble or try adding some canned to what she is eating now? Any advice? And if so, which canned?


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Since you're just planning on adding the canned as a supplemental thing, how about something like Tripett. It's canned green tripe. It's meant for supplemental feeding.


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## colliepam (Jul 29, 2009)

Bless you,Im sure you will be fine,your little dog looks lovely!I think you are correct in choosing a grainfree food,dogs do not need grains.I raw feed my 3 dogs,just meat,bones and veg now and again.If you are interested in raw feeding,you could do some research on line,or get tom lonsdales book"work wonders,feed raw meaty bones".Good luck!


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

I got some Acana grain free today and she gobbled up her little taste of it. In fact she is picking it out of her bowl and leaving the NB. I guess she just doesn't like the NB. I will continue this transition and see how she tolerates it and then maybe add some canned or topper later on for variety. Will also research adding some raw down the line. What do you guys think of that plan? Thanks!


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

colliepam said:


> Bless you,Im sure you will be fine,your little dog looks lovely!I think you are correct in choosing a grainfree food,dogs do not need grains.I raw feed my 3 dogs,just meat,bones and veg now and again.If you are interested in raw feeding,you could do some research on line,or get tom lonsdales book"work wonders,feed raw meaty bones".Good luck!


 I will! And thank you!


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## Minka (Nov 29, 2011)

Lucy Brees said:


> hello everyone!
> 
> I have been reading on this most wonderfully informative forum for a few weeks. We got our precious Lucy (toy schnoodle) just 2 weeks ago, she is now 10 weeks. We are first time dog owners and I have NO IDEA what I am doing, LOL!
> 
> ...


Hi Lucy Brees! I'm a little late to the game but I thought I might give you my two cents.

1. I love Natural Balance as a brand. If your dog or cat has allergies, their foods are a great place to turn to. With that in mind, I don't recommend giving Lucy a LID food. She doesn't have any allergies right now, so it'd be a shame to gyp her out of getting enough protein. All the small breed, grain-free foods they have are low in protein and high in carbs, and while dogs can survive on that better than, say cats, if you are trying to go the road of choosing a better food for your beloved pooch, a LID diet isn't the way to go.

2. Absolutely not! Grains are super hard to digest no matter what, so if you can go grain-free, I would do it. 

3. Yes I think she's getting enough. The amounts listed on the back of the bag are very unreliable. Most of the time if you fed your pet that much food they will blow up like a balloon. No, I don't think she's getting enough protein. The LID diets from NB are only guaranteed to have minimum 21% protein.

4. As long as you make sure the food you are feeding was part of the recall, you should be okay. No new foods have been reported as contaminated.

Also, a dog is a dog. You don't need to buy special food for her breed or size. 




zhaor said:


> 3) It's not particularly abnormal to eat less than the recommended amount. As for protein, it's probably fine for her. Higher protein foods are said to cause growth spurts which are bad and can lead to skeletal development issues (although I would think it'd be more calcium that cause bone growth than protein). In large breeds that's a big concern, not so much in smaller dogs. In any case I don't think it hurts for her to be on a slightly lower protein diet as a puppy. When she's older you might want to switch to something with higher protein.


The notion that high protein diets cause growth spurts is rediculous. Dogs living out in the wild don't eat less protein as puppies and more as adults. Extra protein is filtered through the kidneys and expelled in the urine. Look it up.


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

OP, I think the Acana grain free you switched your pup too is a great choice! I'm not surprised she likes it better than NB. I wouldn't feed NB unless I was trying to narrow down an allergy - too low in protein, IMO.


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