# Puppy peeing on her own bed and sleeping on it.



## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

*I believe the issue is solved now*; she was most likely peeing on the bed because of her previous issue of dragging her used pads onto it, most likely making it smell like an appropriate potty place. I got her a used crate (very large, a $150 crate for $35) which had a fluffy little white pad. I was dubious about the pad because of her bed issue, but I left it in because it would be easy to wash and most of the towels I have would not be big enough to cover the whole crate. She's had no accidents in it all, even though I missed one of her potty times (my cat burst through the screen top of my snake terrarium [naughty Kouga!] and we had to search for the snake! Happy to say we found her safe curled on top of a heat vent under a chest of drawers.) I'm confident she can have her bed back after a good wash, but I'm going to wait for a month or so to be certain because the bed is very difficult to wash if she pees on it again. I also put a blanket on top of the crate so it's like a little den now! She loves it. And I would like thoughts on wether water bowls are okay to keep in her crate or not? It's a weighted one, and there's a part of the edge of the pad which the previous dog had chewed the stuffing out of (I sewed it up) which is the perfect size to fit the bowl into, but I'm not sure if it would keep her from knocking it over. I could try and take pictures of the crate if you'd like to see. Thank you!
Ah, on second thought, the water bowl is probably a terrible idea. I just found her in the process if flipping the pad completely upside-down. xD


So, unfortunately the person who had her before trained her to use pee pads. Now I'm working on training her to go only outside, and she does a good job of holding it all night (the vet confirmed there's nothing wrong with her, so don't worry about that). However, I've noticed that she LIKES to pee where she sleeps! Before, when she still had pads but I also took her out most of the time, I noticed that she would drag her bed away from it's original place more into the middle of the room, and drag her soiled pads onto her bed! I couldn't figure this out, but I figured that since it wouldn't be long before I got rid of them completely, I'd just move everything back and not worry about it. Because of this when I got rid of the pads I thoroughly cleaned the carpet with Febreeze, then carpet powder, then enzyme cleaner deisgned to get rid of pet smells and a little Febreeze again (I couldn't smell anything, but I wanted to be sure.) She's been completely off them for several days, but I notice that now she purposefully pees on her bed. Just this morning, I was getting dressed and fed her. I was just putting on my shoes to take her outside (the daily routine) when she finished and, without hesitating or doing anything else, she walked straight to her bed and peed on it! I stopped her and quickly took her outside where she finished, but still. I used an enzyme cleaner on it (as well as the carpet underneath) so we'll see what happens, but why would she do it in the first place? If this is a behavior problem and not just "this is where I'm supposed to go" then the cleaner won't help. The only thing I found online were people talking about puppy mill puppies, UTIs, or health issues relating to older dogs. I also saw some people talking about their dogs peeing on new beds to show that they want their old one back, but she's had this bed for a while and her "old" bed was just a blanket when we first got her. She peed on that, too, but she also had a UTI at the time and was not even 8 weeks old. I also know that her welping box had a blanket in it as well, if that means anything. Help?


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## MysticRealm (May 30, 2007)

Take her out immediately in the morning, no getting dressed first, no feeding her first, have a pair of easy slip on shoes and out you go the instant you wake up. You must also make sure to take her out every time BEFORE she has the opportunity to pee in the bed. She will need to be kept under very close supervision at all times to make sure that if she thinks about going you catch her and take her out. She may pee on the bed cause it doesn't splash on her legs, or any other reason, but the way you fix it is to go back to proper potty training. Which means taking her out more than twice a day. Probably 8+ times a day.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

What, going outside in underwear? In January no less? In Oregon, the eternally rainy state? That's ridiculous, frankly. A few extra seconds to get up can't make that big of a difference. I get up, get dressed (feed her the instant I'm up, before I even get my glasses on) and as soon as she's done eating we head out the door. And the main problem is that I'm working on the training right now - I take her out every hour while I'm awake. She hasn't been properly potty-trained in the first place; she gets the idea that going outside is good, to hold it at night, and not go anywhere else (for the most part; there have been a few accidents over holiday times when guests were over, and those were completely my fault for not watching the time). It's only her bed that she purposefully pees on.


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## MysticRealm (May 30, 2007)

Throw on a house coat and get out the door. But if you don't want to bother helping her to learn then don't bother. Just don't come on here and complain.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

You expect me to "throw on a house coat" when I live with dad? The closest I even have to a house coat is my giant fluffy blanket which I would have to drag through mud in order to "wear" outside. And how am I not helping her learn?! I just said in my last post that I'm working on the housetraining and her ONLY problem is peeing on her bed! I've taught her everything else! I'm not complaining, I'm trying to figure out what's going on and fix it. If I was complaining I wouldn't be on a dog TRAINING forum in the first place. If you think I'm ignoring relevant advice, please tell me how getting rid of the extra less than a minute in the morning would help her at all? This makes no sense.
Edit; so I re-read all of this and I think I failed to mention the fact that she doesn't consistently go on her bed. She's done it three times now, and this morning was when I actually caught her doing it, I let her know I was displeased and took her out immediately (I only had one shoe on) and praised her for going outside before I came in and cleaned the bed/carpet. I'm doing what I can to train her, but her quick-learning and being good about the rest of her housetraining leads me to believe this is more than just not understanding where she can and can't go. I take her out often enough that this usually isn't able to happen.


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## BKaymuttleycrew (Feb 2, 2015)

Captain_Russia said:


> What, going outside in underwear? In January no less? In Oregon, the eternally rainy state? That's ridiculous, frankly. A few extra seconds to get up can't make that big of a difference. I get up, get dressed (feed her the instant I'm up, before I even get my glasses on) and as soon as she's done eating we head out the door. And the main problem is that I'm working on the training right now - I take her out every hour while I'm awake. She hasn't been properly potty-trained in the first place; she gets the idea that going outside is good, to hold it at night, and not go anywhere else (for the most part; there have been a few accidents over holiday times when guests were over, and those were completely my fault for not watching the time). It's only her bed that she purposefully pees on.


Why are you feeding her before you take her out to potty? She needs to go out **immediately** upon rising. Keep a pair of sweatpants & a sweatshirt next to your bed & a pair of slip on shoes by the door. Get up, throw on the above mentioned clothes (this should take about 5 seconds) do NOT feed her - get her up & take her outside to potty. Once she's done, come back in & let her have breakfast.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Look, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but the answer is just taking her out more. Potty training 101. You cannot give her the opportunity to go anywhere but where you want. You have to get her outside before she has a chance to pee where you don't want. And praise/treat a LOT when she does go outside (and this has to be IMMEDIATELY after she's finished peeing, not when she comes back in. I'm talking within a second or two). The pee pads you've been using for the UTIs have, unfortunately, probably confused her about where she is supposed to go - you've been telling her that it's okay to pee inside. And dogs trained with pee pads often end up thinking that peeing inside on any soft surface is what they're supposed to do. So you have to NOT give her the opportunity to do that (and it's probably going to take a while) if you want to break the habit.

ETA: The key to successful housetraining is to have no accidents. Even if this is only happening occasionally, that's too often. You need to be vigilant or this is going to take a looooooooong time.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

BKaymuttleycrew; I've had several people tell me that feeding a puppy before you take them to potty is better because it gets their system going, so that just became our routine. If this is wrong (and nothing against you or anything) I'd like a source for that.
Effisia; I take her out every hour which seems to be enough for the most part - it's only if I miss it or like the other day I didn't take her out fast enough that she does this. I've always praised her for going as soon as she starts and after she stops, I don't praise when we go in or anything like that. Pretty much everybody says that the key to breaking bad behavior in general is catching the dog in the act and showing displeasure, then showing them the behavior you want instead - is this not how to deal with peeing problems as well? I obviously don't want her to pee on anything at all, and I don't wait on purpose to catch her, but if I do happen to catch her and show her the proper place to go, wouldn't it be easier on her? A clear "that's bad, this is good" scenario so it's less confusing?


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Everything BKaymuttleycrew and Effisia said. Keep something near your bed that you can throw on to _take her outside immediately when she wakes up_. Don't give her the opportunity to go anywhere in the house. I have a robe I wear outside; my husband has jeans and a shirt between the bed and door.



Captain_Russia said:


> I let her know I was displeased


That isn't going to help anything and will likely make training harder than it needs to be. If she has an accident, gently interrupt (if you see her) and take her outside. Showing her that you're displeased can make her scared to eliminate in your presence resulting in her hiding where she goes and reinforcing the "pee inside" habit.

ETA: First thing in the morning, she probably doesn't need any help with getting things moving. Everything I've read about house training puppies says to take them outside immediately upon waking, especially in the morning.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Captain_Russia said:


> BKaymuttleycrew; I've had several people tell me that feeding a puppy before you take them to potty is better because it gets their system going, so that just became our routine. If this is wrong (and nothing against you or anything) I'd like a source for that.
> Effisia; I take her out every hour which seems to be enough for the most part - it's only if I miss it or like the other day I didn't take her out fast enough that she does this. I've always praised her for going as soon as she starts and after she stops, I don't praise when we go in or anything like that. *Pretty much everybody says that the key to breaking bad behavior in general is catching the dog in the act and showing displeasure*, then showing them the behavior you want instead - is this not how to deal with peeing problems as well? I obviously don't want her to pee on anything at all, and I don't wait on purpose to catch her, but if I do happen to catch her and show her the proper place to go, wouldn't it be easier on her? A clear "that's bad, this is good" scenario so it's less confusing?


Everybody who? That's not something I've heard. The key to "breaking bad behavior" is to prevent the behavior from occurring and training an alternate behavior. There's no need for the dog to practice the undesired behavior - in fact, that's counter productive to your goals.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

She doesn't sleep through the night from what I've noticed, she always seems awake even if I wake up in the middle of the night. She doesn't have any opportunity to go around the house in the morning, either, she's confined to my room. I've also read that you're supposed to not quite scare them if you find them having an accident, but stop them quickly enough mid-stream to transfer them to the correct potty place to finish. By "displeased" I meant basically saying "no" and picking her up.
And about behavior, I've read all over (including this forum, if I remember correctly) that if your dog is doing something undesirable you have to correct them. I've never heard people say that you must prevent all undesired behavior from occuring all the time to teach your dog (except for the pad dragging forum which made sense). The way that's been suggested in this thread doesn't make much sense - I mean, sure, preventing it in the first place is great, but if you CAN'T then the best thing to do is establish the rules, right? And you're supposed to establish rules from the moment you get a puppy, which is done through saying "no" (or equivalent way of showing displeasure) when they do something you don't like - jumping on you, chewing on furniture, that sort of thing. You can't prevent them from doing that in the first place because they don't know it's bad. How do I train alternate behavior if there is no distinction between the bad behavior from the dog's point of view?


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

You could probably Google what I was talking about, but here's a few references which talk about how to correct bad behaviors;
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/frstyear.html
http://leerburg.com/no-art.htm
(^ I wasn't as extreme as that, my puppy learned the meaning of the word by the tone of my voice alone.)
http://zangpaw.com/commands/stop.html
http://www.dogster.com/dog-training/bad-dog-behavior
http://www.training-your-dog-and-you.com/Dog-Training-Corrections.html
http://thehousebreakingbible.com/wp/training-housebreaking-corrections/
I could probably find more if you want me to.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Personally, if I woke up in the morning with a full bladder and waited to go until after I had my breakfast, the outcome would likely be disastrous. 

Conventional wisdom .. relief first, replenishment second.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

It's much easier to teach a dog what to do than to try and teach them all the things not to do. What you're talking about is basically setting a dog up to fail so that you can punish them. Just teach the dog what you want them to do instead. Check out the housetraining links on this thread: http://www.dogforums.com/first-time-dog-owner/88458-enough-potty-threads.html

You need to go back to basics. Pretend the dog isn't potty trained at all and start from there.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Captain_Russia said:


> What, going outside in underwear? In January no less? In Oregon, the eternally rainy state? That's ridiculous, frankly. A few extra seconds to get up can't make that big of a difference. I get up, get dressed (feed her the instant I'm up, before I even get my glasses on) and as soon as she's done eating we head out the door. And the main problem is that I'm working on the training right now - I take her out every hour while I'm awake. She hasn't been properly potty-trained in the first place; she gets the idea that going outside is good, to hold it at night, and not go anywhere else (for the most part; there have been a few accidents over holiday times when guests were over, and those were completely my fault for not watching the time). It's only her bed that she purposefully pees on.


It really isn't rocket science to find SOME kind of suitable clothing to quickly step outdoors in, a "house coat" is just an example of something simple to pull on. Leave a rain jacket or such hanging by the door next to her leash, wear shorts or sweatpants to bed and slip on a pair of old sneakers as you head out the door.

Don't feed her first, just wake up and woosh, out the door. 

Really, even my completely house trained adult dogs who can sleep over 12 hours overnight without needing a bathroom break NEED to go right outside when they wake up. So, I get up, let them out to pee and then put down their breakfasts while I shower and dress. Then they get a second trip outside before I leave for the day so they have a chance for a bowel movement after they've eaten and moved around a bit.

And no, there is no need or reason to allow or encourage an undesirable behavior just so you can tell the dog "NO" (besides, "no" means what exactly to the dog? "No" means hundreds of things that you don't want, so teach what you do want with straightforward commands)

Potty accidents aren't really even "bad" behavior the way that say, chewing up your shoes might be considered bad behavior. They are bodily functions that take time for the dog to learn to realize the feelings of needing to pee and get the signal early enough to ask to go outside or wait until the next break; and at a certain point, are just not always something a dog has control over (all dogs have a time limit for holding it, just like any other animal)


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## TheDarkestMinds (Feb 28, 2015)

Frankly if you can't fathom potty training properly in winter. You should just focus on PROPERLY pad training for the time being. Because if you house train absolutely the 100% best way to do so, is take your pup out FIRST thing in the morning. That is called setting your puppy up for success.

I have never ever had a puppy that didn't need to potty as soon as he or she woke from a long or short sleep. So yes that does require you to sleep on some warm PJ'S, get some rubber bottomed slippers, and sleep with your coat on your bed. So that first thing in the morning half asleep you are prepared to take the puppy out. Sorry but it's the hard cold facts.

I live in Ohio the weather is notoriously crappy and the winters often have us at below zero. It sucks. I told myself for that reason I would never have a puppy unless it is spring/summer. Because I know from experience many puppies need 2am and 6am potty breaks. And yeah it's one thing to run out of the house barefoot in PJ'S in the 70° heat. Another to brave inches of snow and chance of pneumonia (I am prone to it).

Yet I ended up with Cosmo on January 1st. But because he is a small breed I am cool with pad training him. Honestly I would say if you can't handle the elements...Then you need to go back to pad training. Get a pad holder or spray the pads with green apple so she won't mess with them. NEVER leave her unattended unless crated. When she wakes from a nap or long sleep, take her to the pad. Personally I found it best to put the pad in the bathroom. That way I can take my pup in there, and close the door. That way he can't take off with out going potty. Take her to the pad every 30 minutes if you have to. Do not wait for her to make a mistake just so you can correct her. But by all means if she has a accident pick up the poop or mop up the pee on a paper towel. Then take the puppy to the pad and let them see you put the accident on the pad. Sounds crazy but it helps.

Honestly doesn't sound like the breeder properly pad trained. 

And as for her bed....I would throw it out if she continues to pee on it. If you want to buy a new one do so.


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## kdawnk (Mar 26, 2014)

You need us to list a source for you to believe your puppy needs to be let out first BEFORE you feed her? Here's a good source: what you're doing right now isn't working. Common sense is to try something else. 
And it's not 1 minute. 
It's probably closer to 10-15 by the time you get dressed, and her food is poured, and she eats every piece, and you gear up to head outside, and 'where did I put my boots...' then whoops... She's already peed. 

I say toss the bed. If you're using a thick, padded bed, even an enzymatic cleaner might not be sufficient to thoroughly clean the layers and remove all of the pee smell. Puppies return to pee where they've peed before. 
You don't necessarily have to throw it out. I'd just use a folded blanket/towel instead as they're much easier to thoroughly clean. At least until she gets the concept. 

And yeah, like everyone else said, I think you should be taking the puppy out as soon as you wake up. Maybe even once in the middle of the night to be preemptive. You can spend the whole dog's life telling them what you don't want them to do, or, you could show and reward what you DO want. 
You DO want her to pee outside. Throw a party every time she does, take her out more frequently so she's successful and learns how great it is to do what you want.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I agree with taking the puppy out before anything. I never fed Shippo first - if I had, he would have had many more accidents, because when a puppy wakes up, they wake up with a full bladder and they have no bladder control at that point. So while it is true that feeding them helps to get their digestive tract moving, there's really not time for that first thing in the morning when you are potty training a little puppy. Shippo's potty schedule was this:

- Immediately upon waking up (I threw on some lounge pants and a coat, no biggie)
- Immediately after eating a meal, or drinking a lot of water
- Immediately after a play session
- Right before he went in his crate
- Right after exiting his crate
- Every two or three hours regardless, gradually increasing the times between potty breaks as he got older

Gotta set the puppy up for success, and this is the way to do it.

And get rid of the bed that has been soiled a bunch. Maybe replace with a bed that has a liquid resistant liner and machine washable cover, that way if there is an accident, it doesn't soak through to the filling inside the bed. Also, puppies often will pee on soft, absorbent surfaces naturally. When I first brought Shippo home, he peed on one of my rugs, and had accidents on the soft bedding inside his crate - I started just putting towels in his crate because they were easy to replace and cheap.

And since you are asking for a source on this, here is a very good one:
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/a_foolproof_potty-training_plan


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## BKaymuttleycrew (Feb 2, 2015)

Captain_Russia said:


> BKaymuttleycrew; I've had several people tell me that feeding a puppy before you take them to potty is better because it gets their system going, so that just became our routine. If this is wrong (and nothing against you or anything) I'd like a source for that.
> Effisia; I take her out every hour which seems to be enough for the most part - it's only if I miss it or like the other day I didn't take her out fast enough that she does this. I've always praised her for going as soon as she starts and after she stops, I don't praise when we go in or anything like that. Pretty much everybody says that the key to breaking bad behavior in general is catching the dog in the act and showing displeasure, then showing them the behavior you want instead - is this not how to deal with peeing problems as well? I obviously don't want her to pee on anything at all, and I don't wait on purpose to catch her, but if I do happen to catch her and show her the proper place to go, wouldn't it be easier on her? A clear "that's bad, this is good" scenario so it's less confusing?


Sure - puppies need to 'go' after they eat. But!! OMG!! You somehow don't understand that your puppy needs to relieve herself first thing in the morning?? Let me clue you in: When I wake up the routine goes as follows: I quietly get up, slip into my sweat pants/shirt & sneak into the bathroom to pee. Then I head through the house, hit the 'brew' button on the coffee maker as I pass through the kitchen on my way to the sun room where the dogs sleep/are crated. I then take them all outside to pee (and a couple of them need to poop as well) BEFORE coming inside, feeding them, pouring MY coffee, etc... And we are (in this instance) talking about adult, fully potty-trained dogs. They NEED to go out & relieve themselves first thing in the morning (just like - ummmmm..... **I DO**!!) 
If you really don't have (which seems to be the case, based on your posts here...) any inclination to make any sort of accommodations for this puppy in your life - well..... Maybe there is a better home for her?


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

I looked like a complete idiot and the neighbors thought I was crazy but when I was house training a one pound puppy in the middle of winter I had a pair of footie pjs, even if you don't have time to put on snow boots over it you just step in and zip the whole dang thing over whatever you happen to be wearing. Built in shoes, pants, and shirt. And yeah you look like an idiot standing in the middle of snow piles wearing a onesie with cupcakes on it at 4 in the morning, but it gets the job done.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Rescued said:


> I looked like a complete idiot and the neighbors thought I was crazy but when I was house training a one pound puppy in the middle of winter I had a pair of footie pjs, even if you don't have time to put on snow boots over it you just step in and zip the whole dang thing over whatever you happen to be wearing. Built in shoes, pants, and shirt. And yeah you look like an idiot standing in the middle of snow piles wearing a onesie with cupcakes on it at 4 in the morning, but it gets the job done.


Man, I want a picture of that. . ..

Yeah, I mean, my dogs are old, they can hold it for a long time. But in the mornings, I stumble out of bed, let them out first thing, then go to the bathroom myself. Because I always wake up needing to pee (TMI? ), so I figure they probably do too. I guess if I had to take them out myself instead of just letting them out in the yard, I'd probably have to go first, but they still have to get out pretty quick. I sleep in a sweatshirt and yoga pants so I wouldn't be too entertaining for the neighbors, lol.

And yeah, you don't want to treat going potty like a "bad" behavior. If she decides you don't want her to potty in front of you, you're going to have big problems. It's not at all the same as, say, getting into the trash. It's something you want her to do, and she needs to do! You just want her to do it in a particular place. And the only way to communicate that is to reinforce it heavily when she goes in the place you want. 

You wouldn't be asking the question if things were working out for you. If you're happy with the way you're doing it, keep on keeping on, I guess. But why ask about it if you're happy with everything?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Potty training is not rocket science. Get the dog outside as soon as she wakes up, after any intense play sessions, after she eats, and on a regular schedule in general (you should know by now how long the dog generally holds it, so get her outside before she's ready to burst). YOU are causing all of your potty training issues.

I think I linked this for you before, but read this and go back to basics: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/errorless-housetraining


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

I had a post full of articles and websites about the training I was talking about, but apparently it has to be approved by a moderator first so it's not here and I'll have to address all this now.
Effisia; She isn't potty trained in the first place, I already said that, because she still pees on her bed. I train her what I WANT her to do, my point is that I can't train her what NOT to do unless she does it in the first place! I can't tell her "don't pee over here" and expect her to understand. All I can do is show her where to go and correct her when she goes somewhere else, otherwise she'll never get it. And while I appreciate the link, I already read through that thread and it's not really helpful in this case.
Shell; Can you explain why I need to take her out the instant I wake up, though? It takes me less than a minute to get up in the morning, and she's awake before me anyway. I just really don't understand how a few seconds are so critical in something like this; if she held it all night she should be able to hold it another minute without any issues. And I think I already expressed that I would never let her have an accident on purpose just to reprimand her; she also already has a lot of straight-forward commands down and she DOES know what the word "no" means because if anyone says it she stops what she's doing and looks at you like "Oh, I did something wrong?"
TheDarkestMinds; I can "fathom" puppy training just fine in winter. I take her out in a T-shirt in the rain when it's less than twenty degrees; I can handle the elements just fine. I will NOT pad train her, she's a medium-large breed dog and I will not deal with the expense, aggravation, and confusion those things cause. She is properly pad-trained anyway - if there's a pad down she has no accidents. My whole problem is coming from taking them AWAY. And you all are honestly telling me that everyone who has a dog sleeps with clothes and sprints out in the morning with their dog? I know a guy who has like four dogs and as far as I know they go out for potty-time on their morning walk - AFTER all of them have breakfast and he showers. Also, I didn't get her from a breeder, I got her from a **** who let his pitbull have unwanted puppies and probably would have killed them had I not intervened and found them all homes. I'm surprised he bothered pad-training them in the first place. I'm loathe to throw out her bed because it's a nice one, but if I have to I will.
kdawnk; I would like a source because I have several of my own sources which told me that I should feed a puppy first and then take them out because they're "basically little input-output machines". It's what I've been told and it makes sense, this is the only place where I've been told different. And yes, it IS one minute. I sleep with a shirt on, that leaves socks, pants, shoes. I'm the kind of person that practically leaps out of bed once I'm awake. So yes, it literally IS less than a minute to get ready, and as I said I feed when I wake up even before I get my glasses on. Giving her another whole minute to eat all her food, that's still two minutes, three if I'm being generous.


kdawnk said:


> ...
> I say toss the bed. If you're using a thick, padded bed, even an enzymatic cleaner might not be sufficient to thoroughly clean the layers and remove all of the pee smell. Puppies return to pee where they've peed before.
> You don't necessarily have to throw it out. I'd just use a folded blanket/towel instead as they're much easier to thoroughly clean. At least until she gets the concept....


Which is it? Toss the bed or no? Also, and again, I've said this before, I praise her for going outside and I DO NOT wait for her to have an accident, IF she has one I let her know it's bad and then praise her for finishing outside.
Cheetah; (love your dog's names, by the way!) I think it's worth mentioning that the puppy is four and a half months old, not like I just got her or anything. Her bladder control is very competent - I think it's less "I can't hold it" and more "it's okay for me to go over here". The bed cover is a good idea, I'm really sad that I'll probably have to throw out her nice bed, though. And the padding part I hadn't really thought of, I'm going to try soaking the bed in enzyme cleaner and water to see if that will do more. If it doesn't, she'll just have to get another bed. Thank you for the source, it was interesting to read and some of the info was new, though most of the actual training was exactly what I've been doing. The only problem we have is that she sniffs the ground when she wants to poop, but if she has to pee she just squats with no warning whatsoever. It's about timing with her and it was really a pain but I've mostly got her routine down, it's just accidents every once in a while.
BKaymuttleycrew; No accommodations? WTF?! I had to completely re-arrange everything in my house and life, deal with my dad and our other pets, and have no time to do anything I like to do. I haven't played a video game in weeks! My friends have visited three times since I got her! Don't make assumptions based on very little, especially when you're talking about another being's life. Do I not understand some concepts about this? Of course I don't. I'm a first time dog owner whith little dog experience in general. If I didn't care, if I wasn't willing to make accommodations, why would I be here? I'd just do whatever and not bother to learn how to properly deal with her.
Rescued; That's pretty funny, awesome that it worked for you!
Willowy; I've never had to pee first thing in morning, I never really even considered that as a thing before this. I just figured puppies had to do it because they're, well, puppies, most of them can't hold it. Don't get me wrong, I take her out in the morning pretty quick, I just feed her first. She's fine with going in front of me, I praise her a lot when she goes outside, it's not the issue here. The question at hand is, why does she pee on her bed? I'm very happy with the rest of her training and behaviour - she doesn't bark, chew, jump, bite, disobey commands, or whine/beg. She doesn't even have accidents anywhere else in the whole house - it's only her bed. That's why I'm here, I can't quite figure it out. Now it looks like there may have been left-over pee smell that was inticing her, which is unfortunate. If that's the issue it should be easy to fix by thoroughly cleaning the bed or just getting rid of it.
Crantastic; I already know all of that, she has no issues anywhere else it's ONLY her bed the rest of her training is going well. I appreciate the link but's it not helpful here.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think she's probably not mature enough to have a nice bed yet. Give it a good wash, and put it away until she's older. For now, just an old blanket or towels will do. Most puppies can't have a nice bed until at least 8 months or so. They always chew on it or pee on it or whatever.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

Oh, I didn't know that. I suppose I'll just give her another old blanket, thank you.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

i'm only typing this in case someone else reading may take my advice because I know you won't.

You have a puppy. Your life changes when you get a puppy. You sleep in something you can go outside in: pj's pants & a tshirt work well. When your dog has to go, the human just goes out. It won't kill you, I promise. There *are* dogs that can hold it while we change but your dog can't. Sleep in something & get outside. 

Feeding: I really don't care what you claim you have read but let your dog go potty first, then feed.

In case you think I have no experience, you're wrong. My puppy is 21 weeks old. One night, around 2am, he whined to go out. Got up, slipped on my slippers, got him out of the crate then realized I put my coat in the closet. oh well, out I went in pj pants & longsleeved tshirt. So cold. When I went back in with a puppy who just peed & pooped, I looked at the thermostat: it was 14 degrees outside and I'm still alive to talk about it.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

I honestly think you're coming up with drama that isn't here. I don't care about the weather, I just didn't want to walk outside practically naked, especially when I live with my dad. A minute will not kill her, and yes, she CAN hold it while I change, she just happened to finish eating before I got her leash on to take her out. Again, she did not have an accident in the sense that she was unable to hold it - she purposefully walked all the way to her bed to pee instead of stopping anywhere along the way. And despite the fact that everyone is telling me to feed her after taking her out, no one has been able to give me a source for that position, or logic, when I have sources that tell me the opposite. I don't think it's unreasonable to trust written articles on dog websites over conflicting opinions stated on a public forum.


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## BKaymuttleycrew (Feb 2, 2015)

Captain_Russia said:


> I honestly think you're coming up with drama that isn't here. I don't care about the weather, I just didn't want to walk outside practically naked, especially when I live with my dad. A minute will not kill her, and yes, she CAN hold it while I change, she just happened to finish eating before I got her leash on to take her out. Again, she did not have an accident in the sense that she was unable to hold it - she purposefully walked all the way to her bed to pee instead of stopping anywhere along the way. And despite the fact that everyone is telling me to feed her after taking her out, no one has been able to give me a source for that position, or logic, when I have sources that tell me the opposite. I don't think it's unreasonable to trust written articles on dog websites over conflicting opinions stated on a public forum.


I'm not sure what 'sources' you were reading, because I honestly can't find any articles about house training that DON'T tell you to take a puppy out *immediately* upon waking (whether first thing in the a.m., or from a nap) But, if you want me to provide links, here you go:

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/guide/house-training-your-puppy
http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/housetraining_puppies.html
http://www.perfectpaws.com/htrp.html#.Vq9bqfkrLy0

Yes, they do say to take the puppy out *after* she eats, but this doesn't override the necessity of 'first thing upon waking'. So - what you're going to have to do is this: Wake up & immediately take her outside. Come in, feed her & then *take her out again*. Yup - twice in the span of maybe 10 - 15 minutes. Sometimes that's just the way it goes.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

The logic is that your dog is having accidents due to not being let out quickly enough (if she was being let out quickly enough, she would not have the opportunity to have these accidents). 

Do you need a source to show why leaving late for work causes you to not get there on time?

Potty training = let your dog out often enough that they don't have the opportunity to go inside, thus building the habit of going outside. Period. 

If your dog is going inside on your current schedule, you need to let her out earlier or more frequently. 

I really do not know why you continue to argue over this and make it overcomplicated for yourself. What is it hurting you to throw some PJ's on and take her out before feeding her?


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

What you're doing isn't working. You've said your dog is not pottytrained, right? What you're doing isn't working, so maybe you should actually try what we're all telling you.

Potty train your dog.
Stop making excuses about random things you've read (that no one else has EVER heard of)
Don't set your dog up to fail just so you can correct her - that doesn't work.
Tell her where to go, don't let her go where you don't want her to, and it will become habit.
Don't forget to treat and praise IMMEDIATELY after she finishes peeing. Within seconds. 
(This will ensure that she thinks peeing where you want her to is just AWESOME - which will make her prefer to pee there)


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

ireth0; I'm not trying to make it overcomplicated, I just honestly don't understand. Why is this such an emergency to get her out before I can even get dressed? I mean, if it took me half an hour to get dressed I can see how that might be significant, but it doesn't. She's only had one morning accident and we've been doing this schedule for weeks - I could see a problem there if this was a constant issue in the mornings, but it's definitely not! Her other two accidents were because of schedule flukes, what I was concerned about was the fact that she was only peeing on her bed and had no hesitation about doing it.
Effisia; She's MOSTLY potty-trained, I believe I said this before. Her only problem is the bed, probably because she dragged her soiled pads on them and got the pee smell in it which I couldn't wash out. These aren't random things I've read, either - I did have a whole post full of links but apparently I'm not allowed to post them so it didn't show up (something about being looked at by a moderator). For the love of god, PLEASE READ WHAT I WROTE. I said that I DO NOT set her up to fail, I stated that it is a HORRIBLY STUPID IDEA. I mentioned it so no one would mistake me and think I let her have an accident on purpose. And I already said that I praise her when she STARTS (because she followed the command) and when she STOPS. I did this from the start and she seems all too happy to go outside for me. I've taken the bed away for now because it's the source of the problem.

Honestly, I've noticed that a lot of people will fixate on one or two things they thought they read and go on a tangent about it and not even bother to re-read the original statement. It's really, really starting to bug me because I have to keep repeating myself and it ends up looking like I'm a defensive idiot who's arguing for the sake of it. Do I have to type in all capitals? Or am I just using some other form of English people have a hard time understanding?


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> I'm not trying to make it overcomplicated, I just honestly don't understand. Why is this such an emergency to get her out before I can even get dressed? I mean, if it took me half an hour to get dressed I can see how that might be significant, but it doesn't. She's only had one morning accident and we've been doing this schedule for weeks - I could see a problem there if this was a constant issue in the mornings, but it's definitely not! Her other two accidents were because of schedule flukes, what I was concerned about was the fact that she was only peeing on her bed and had no hesitation about doing it.


The peeing on the bed is solved by not allowing her the opportunity to pee inside.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Captain_Russia said:


> I honestly think you're coming up with drama that isn't here. I don't care about the weather, I just didn't want to walk outside practically naked, especially when I live with my dad. A minute will not kill her, and yes, she CAN hold it while I change, she just happened to finish eating before I got her leash on to take her out. Again, she did not have an accident in the sense that she was unable to hold it - she purposefully walked all the way to her bed to pee instead of stopping anywhere along the way. And despite the fact that everyone is telling me to feed her after taking her out, no one has been able to give me a source for that position, or logic, when I have sources that tell me the opposite. I don't think it's unreasonable to trust written articles on dog websites over conflicting opinions stated on a public forum.


There are sources on the internet that say you should use squirt bottles full of lemon juice and a prong collar to start training at 8 weeks old. Frankly, I don't give a crap that you have mysterious and almighty "sources" that tell you to feed her and then take her out. 

You have a forum full of people, most of whom have successfully potty trained a dog, telling you what to do. And you, in your infinite wisdom and with the backing of your "sources", are failing at potty training. 

Sorry, whatever you're reading or whoever you're listening to, it's not working. Clearly, as evidenced by the fact that your puppy is eliminating in your home. This quote pretty much sums this situation up: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." You're practicing the same morning routine that is resulting in accidents. And we're all telling you to change it up and get her outside, but you're somehow resistant to that idea. 

But since you're SO stuck on this idea of "sources", here are a few:

"Take your puppy outside frequently—at least every two hours—and immediately after he wakes up, during and after playing, and after eating or drinking." - The Humane Society
"Puppies need to urinate immediately after waking up, so you need to be there to take your puppy straight into the garden without any delay." - The Kennel Club
"Take puppy out to eliminate first thing in the morning and then once every 30 minutes to an hour. Also, always take him outside after meals or when he wakes from a nap. Make sure he goes out last thing at night and before he’s left alone." - Pets WebMD
"With very young puppies, you should expect to take the puppy out... first thing in the morning." - The American Kennel Club

There you go. Sources.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

The advice you're following (from sources _you_ haven't provided) doesn't seem to be working. Why argue with people giving you alternative recommendations for techniques that have worked for them. I believe someone linked Sophia Yin's potty training instructions.

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/guide/house-training-your-puppy


> Take puppy out to eliminate first thing in the morning and then once every 30 minutes to an hour.


http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/housetraining_puppies.html


> Take your puppy outside frequently—at least every two hours—and immediately after he wakes up, during and after playing, and after eating or drinking.


http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/pets/dog-behavior/how-to-housetrain-your-dog


> immediately on waking in the morning or after a nap - See more at: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/pets/dog-behavior/how-to-housetrain-your-dog#sthash.Ki1ZNQlK.dpuf


http://ferndogtraining.com/how-to-potty-train-your-puppy/


> First thing in the morning (assuming your pup hasn’t gone to the bathroom in his crate overnight), take the puppy out of the crate and carry him (pick him up – don’t let his feet hit the ground) outside to the same spot every time.


http://www.akc.org/learn/akc-training/how-to-potty-train-a-puppy/


> you should expect to take the puppy out: First thing in the morning


I don't completely agree with all the advice given in the sites listed, but they all include the recommendation to take the puppy out first thing in the morning. Given the difficulties you've had with house training, I'd recommend treating your puppy like an 8 week old. She already is in the habit of eliminating inside; you want to prevent that as much as possible (by supervising and confining) while simultaneously giving her ample opportunity to eliminate outside.

She very likely pees on her bed because it's become a habit. That's what potty training is - building a habit of eliminating in a particular place. 

And, no, there is absolutely no reason that a dog needs to be allowed to do the wrong thing and then punished. You should be able to predict what kinds of behaviors you don't want (e.g., counter surfing, jumping on guests, begging for food) and prevent those behaviors from occurring.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

The advice you're following (from sources _you_ haven't provided) doesn't seem to be working. Why argue with people giving you alternative recommendations for techniques that have worked for them. I believe someone linked Sophia Yin's potty training instructions.

I had sources - the same one Hiraeth listed - but my post got sent to moderation.

Given the difficulties you've had with house training, I'd recommend treating your puppy like an 8 week old. She already is in the habit of eliminating inside; you want to prevent that as much as possible (by supervising and confining) while simultaneously giving her ample opportunity to eliminate outside.

She very likely pees on her bed because it's become a habit. That's what potty training is - building a habit of eliminating in a particular place. 

And, no, there is absolutely no reason that a dog needs to be allowed to do the wrong thing and then punished. You should be able to predict what kinds of behaviors you don't want (e.g., counter surfing, jumping on guests, begging for food) and prevent those behaviors from occurring. 

Guess I'm repeating things that have already been said, but maybe if you hear it enough you'll start to believe we know what we're talking about.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

ireth0; I already explained this - two schedule flukes and eating too fast one morning. She normally does not have the opportunity.
Hiraeth; You quoted my post before I edited, please read the addition. Thank you for the quotes, finally. I also noted that the American Kennel Club one specified very young puppies, not 4 1/2 month old ones. But since the others weren't specific I won't ignore the advice.
cookieface; Same as Hiraeth, please read the edit.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> ireth0; I already explained this - two schedule flukes and eating too fast one morning. She normally does not have the opportunity.
> Hiraeth; You quoted my post before I edited, please read the addition. Thank you for the quotes, finally.
> cookieface; Same as Hiraeth, please read the edit.


If there is not actually an issue and all instances were just flukes of you not letting her out on schedule, why are you asking for help?


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Captain_Russia said:


> ireth0; I'm not trying to make it overcomplicated, I just honestly don't understand. Why is this such an emergency to get her out before I can even get dressed? I mean, if it took me half an hour to get dressed I can see how that might be significant, but it doesn't. She's only had one morning accident and we've been doing this schedule for weeks - I could see a problem there if this was a constant issue in the mornings, but it's definitely not! Her other two accidents were because of schedule flukes, what I was concerned about was the fact that she was only peeing on her bed and had no hesitation about doing it.
> Effisia; She's MOSTLY potty-trained, I believe I said this before. Her only problem is the bed, probably because she dragged her soiled pads on them and got the pee smell in it which I couldn't wash out. These aren't random things I've read, either - I did have a whole post full of links but apparently I'm not allowed to post them so it didn't show up (something about being looked at by a moderator). For the love of god, PLEASE READ WHAT I WROTE. I said that I DO NOT set her up to fail, I stated that it is a HORRIBLY STUPID IDEA. I mentioned it so no one would mistake me and think I let her have an accident on purpose. And I already said that I praise her when she STARTS (because she followed the command) and when she STOPS. I did this from the start and she seems all too happy to go outside for me. I've taken the bed away for now because it's the source of the problem.
> 
> Honestly, I've noticed that a lot of people will fixate on one or two things they thought they read and go on a tangent about it and not even bother to re-read the original statement. It's really, really starting to bug me because I have to keep repeating myself and it ends up looking like I'm a defensive idiot who's arguing for the sake of it. Do I have to type in all capitals? Or am I just using some other form of English people have a hard time understanding?


No on is telling you not to get dressed; we're telling you not to feed her before going out. She can wait 2-3 minutes while you put some clothes on, she likely can't wait until after she eats breakfast.

I'm not even sure what your question is. She had one accident. Maybe it was a fluke and not indicative of a larger issue. Eliminating on her bed is likely related to the use of puppy pads. Puppies trained with them can start to eliminate on similar surfaces: rugs, beds, blankets, towels... You need to prevent her from having the opportunity to go on her bed.

Your original posts did not indicate this was a one-time event. You asked for help, we gave you advice that has worked for us.



> However, I've noticed that she LIKES to pee where she sleeps!





> I notice that now she purposefully pees on her bed





> She hasn't been properly potty-trained in the first place


Those statements and your asking for help made it sound as though this were an on-going issue. It wasn't until you edited a post (and many people don't see the edits) that you mentioned it happened only three times.



> And about behavior, I've read all over (including this forum, if I remember correctly) that if your dog is doing something undesirable you have to correct them. I've never heard people say that you must prevent all undesired behavior from occuring all the time to teach your dog (except for the pad dragging forum which made sense). The way that's been suggested in this thread doesn't make much sense - I mean, sure, preventing it in the first place is great, but if you CAN'T then the best thing to do is establish the rules, right? And you're supposed to establish rules from the moment you get a puppy, which is done through saying "no" (or equivalent way of showing displeasure) when they do something you don't like - jumping on you, chewing on furniture, that sort of thing. You can't prevent them from doing that in the first place because they don't know it's bad. How do I train alternate behavior if there is no distinction between the bad behavior from the dog's point of view?


You do *not* need to let your dogs make mistakes so you can correct them. If they are never given the opportunity to perform the undesired behavior, it's simply not part of their repertoire. Dogs don't understand right and wrong / good and bad in the same way humans do and attempts to teach them are futile at best, cruel at worst.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

But everyone's been stressing the urgency about going out the instant I'm awake. Feeding her after seemed less important the way they wrote it. My ORIGINAL question was why she peed only on her bed - after thinking about it and reading the rest of the thread I've come to the conclusion that there were left-over pee smells from when she dragged her pads onto her bed, as well as the nature of the bed being attractive as you stated earlier. I've removed the opportunity to pee on the bed by taking the bed away so now there shouldn't be any more problems.
That last bit is the part I can't wrap my head around. I don't let her make mistakes on purpose, obviously, but how do I prevent every single one she could possibly do? Like, for example, if she likes to eat paper. How do I keep her from eating a book that one of my cats knocked onto the floor? If I'm not there, I can't. I'm not going to give my dog a book to punish her for chewing it, but if I find her chewing one then I should show her that's innapropriate behaviour, shouldn't I? I can teach positive behaviour all I want, but it can't prevent everything else, and in those cases correction is necessary.

Edit; I stated it like that because I was worried about it being an on-going issue. She walked all the way from the other end of the room to pee on her bed, which made me think that the previous two accidents had also been on purpose. I suppose that last quote could have been phrased better as well; I trained her the proper way, she just wasn't FULLY trained because of her bed issue.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

No, you would not punish her. You would say to yourself "Oh, I made a mistake allowing this situation to happen" and either A) secure your books or move them temporarily to remove the issue B) secure your pup in a crate or expen or other to prevent access to these things C) do not allow your cats access to where the dog is to prevent them from knocking things into reach


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> Effisia; I take her out every hour which seems to be enough for the most part - it's only if I miss it or like the other day I didn't take her out fast enough that she does this. I've always praised her for going as soon as she starts and after she stops, I don't praise when we go in or anything like that. Pretty much everybody says that the key to breaking bad behavior in general is catching the dog in the act and showing displeasure, then showing them the behavior you want instead - is this not how to deal with peeing problems as well? I obviously don't want her to pee on anything at all, and I don't wait on purpose to catch her, but if I do happen to catch her and show her the proper place to go, wouldn't it be easier on her? A clear "that's bad, this is good" scenario so it's less confusing?


This is what I'm talking about. This is not the way to go about it and I think you might be misunderstanding the advice given by the training experts. IF you catch the dog in the act, you interrupt and then take the dog out to finish outside. That's correct. However, this is a last resort. This really shouldn't happen because the goal of housetraining is to be "error-free". You don't want to give the puppy ANY opportunity to have an accident.

Look at trainers like Sophia Yin, Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson... they all say the same thing. 

If you're puppy is only having the occasional accident, then great! You only have a few things that need to be worked on. Getting rid of the bed was a good start. Now you just have to make sure you're on top of taking her out every time she needs to go. Moving forward, make sure there are no more accidents.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> No, you would not punish her. You would say to yourself "Oh, I made a mistake allowing this situation to happen" and either A) secure your books or move them temporarily to remove the issue B) secure your pup in a crate or expen or other to prevent access to these things C) do not allow your cats access to where the dog is to prevent them from knocking things into reach


All of this.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

ireth0; It was a theoretical example. Follow the idea to any sort of thing that could not be prevented and was not your fault or the dog's. How do you stop it from happening again?
Let's try another - your dog's favorite snack is any and all furniture. Go.
Effisia; Her only accidents are when something happens and I can't take her out on time. Flukes - I'm on top of her the rest of the time. The rest of her training has been flawless, as I've been trying to explain.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> It was a theoretical example. Follow the idea to any sort of thing that could not be prevented and was not your fault or the dog's. How do you stop it from happening again?
> Let's try another - your dog's favorite snack is any and all furniture. Go.


Prevent your dog from accessing the furniture when you are not actively supervising to redirect them to appropriate chews. Via crate or expen or baby gate.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> It was a theoretical example. Follow the idea to any sort of thing that could not be prevented and was not your fault or the dog's. How do you stop it from happening again?
> Let's try another - your dog's favorite snack is any and all furniture. Go.


Crate or ex-pen when you cannot watch them at all, tether to you when you can keep an eye on them, give the dog plenty of chew toys and make sure to redirect any furniture chewing to appropriate chew items, and more exercise (mental and physical) for the dog since furniture chewing is often out of boredom. Oh, and check for other symptoms of sep anx, that's a possibility too depending on other symptoms.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Captain_Russia said:


> It was a theoretical example. Follow the idea to any sort of thing that could not be prevented and was not your fault or the dog's. How do you stop it from happening again?
> Let's try another - your dog's favorite snack is any and all furniture. Go.


Give your puppy appropriate chew toys. Make them more enticing than furniture by praising her when she chews them, play with her with the toys, pair the toys with treats, etc.
Supervise. If she looks at the furniture or moves towards the furniture or gives any indication that she intends to chew the furniture, redirect to an appropriate chew toy.
Use a crate, ex-pen, puppy-proofed room when you can't supervise.
Ensure your puppy is getting adequate mental and physical exercise.

It is possible - even likely - that you will slip up and she will chew something inappropriate. When that happens, redirect her to an appropriate chew toy, figure out where your plan went wrong, adjust your plan.

There is absolutely *no* reason to allow her to chew the furniture so that you can correct (i.e., punish) her.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Did you take the pads away? That's probably why she's peeing on her bed because she no longer has pads and isn't fully potty trained yet. Puppies/dogs naturally like to pee on soft things. If I had an empty room with a bed, towel, blanket, whatever in it and left my dog in there and it had to go to the bathroom it would most likely go and pee on the bed/object as opposed to the hard floor. My dogs will always choose to pee on a carpet vs bare floor.

The reason that she can go all night without peeing is because she isn't as active at night. Once you are up I image she is walking around more and that will make her pee. 

You do need to take puppies out ASAP in the morning. Throw on some pajama pants and a jacket and bring her out before feeding her or doing anything else.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Captain_Russia said:


> ireth0; It was a theoretical example. Follow the idea to any sort of thing that could not be prevented and was not your fault or the dog's. How do you stop it from happening again?
> Let's try another - your dog's favorite snack is any and all furniture. Go.


Crate her so she doesn't have access to furniture or supervise so she can't chew.

I have a 6 month old Great Dane puppy who LOVES to chew on everything. And yet, he's destroyed nothing in my home. Because I'm responsible and I watch him, or I'm responsible and I crate him.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I'd still like to know where you are getting your training information as it is generally counter to everything I've read.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

The key word here is "redirect"! As I've been trying to say! You let them know not to chew the furniture! The method doesn't really matter, whether you distract them with toys or whatever, my point is that you curb the behaviour by catching it in the first place. Sure, it would be nice to have a dog that doesn't chew furniture at all, but you can't expect them to know that furniture is off-limits from the get-go. You can't keep an adult dog in a crate for the rest of his life just to avoid curbing the behaviour.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> The key word here is "redirect"! As I've been trying to say! You let them know not to chew the furniture! The method doesn't really matter, whether you distract them with toys or whatever, my point is that you curb the behaviour by catching it in the first place. Sure, it would be nice to have a dog that doesn't chew furniture at all, but you can't expect them to know that furniture is off-limits from the get-go.


You do this by redirecting, not correcting or punishing them from chewing the wrong thing.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> The key word here is "redirect"! As I've been trying to say! You let them know not to chew the furniture! The method doesn't really matter, whether you distract them with toys or whatever, my point is that you curb the behaviour by catching it in the first place. Sure, it would be nice to have a dog that doesn't chew furniture at all, but you can't expect them to know that furniture is off-limits from the get-go.


Ideally, yes. You keep them from ever doing it. Just like with pottytraining. However, pottytraining is rather a lot stricter in terms of training. It's a special case in that most other things don't have quite the focus on being error-less.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

cookieface; I just Googled it. I can't list references because my post would go into mod limbo.
ireth0; So you're telling me that the word "no" is meaningless, then? If I'm never supposed to correct her for any reason, why do so many people teach this word?
Effisia; I've only done this for potty-training when I first got her (UTI and all, though we didn't know that at the time) and the other day when she peed on her bed. The rest of it has been pre-emptive, thankfully.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Captain_Russia said:


> The key word here is "redirect"! As I've been trying to say! You let them know not to chew the furniture! The method doesn't really matter, whether you distract them with toys or whatever, my point is that you curb the behaviour by catching it in the first place. Sure, it would be nice to have a dog that doesn't chew furniture at all, but you can't expect them to know that furniture is off-limits from the get-go. You can't keep an adult dog in a crate for the rest of his life just to avoid curbing the behaviour.


So, here's the difference between redirection and correction. Imagine you give a kid a bunch of crayons. The kid starts coloring on the walls. You 'correct' and say "no, don't do that". Then the kid starts coloring on the couch. You 'correct' and say "no, don't do that". The kid starts coloring on the carpet. You 'correct' and say "no, don't do that". Then they start coloring on every other thing they can find, and all you do is say "no, don't do that". 

Wouldn't it be much easier to give the kid a coloring book and show them how much fun it is to color in the coloring book instead? Why repeatedly negatively correct when you can instead positively reinforce what you DO want your puppy to do? 

My puppy has been "corrected" once in his entire life, when he was about to grab a dangerous item off of my counter. Other than that, I have never raised my voice or "curbed" his behavior by disciplining him for doing the wrong thing. EVERY time your puppy does something wrong, it is YOUR fault. So when you correct your puppy for a situation you could have avoided by managing better, you should actually be correcting yourself.

Oh, and to add, the one time he was corrected - that was my fault too. If I hadn't left a pill bottle 3" away from the counter edge, it wouldn't have been a danger to him. The correction came out of fear for his well-being, NOT because I was attempting to modify his behavior in that moment.

ETA: People teach the word "no" because they don't understand dog training or dog mentality. Why do so many people think alpha and dominance theory still applies? Because they never seek information to the contrary and they continue on being ignorant about current canine science and studies.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> cookieface; I just Googled it. I can't list references because my post would go into mod limbo.
> ireth0; So you're telling me that the word "no" is meaningless, then? If I'm never supposed to correct her for any reason, why do so many people teach this word?
> Effisia; I've only done this for potty-training when I first got her (UTI and all, though we didn't know that at the time) and the other day when she peed on her bed. The rest of it has been pre-emptive, thankfully.


There is a LOT of bad advice out there. Don't trust everything you google.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Captain_Russia said:


> cookieface; I just Googled it. I can't list references because my post would go into mod limbo.
> ireth0; So you're telling me that the word "no" is meaningless, then? If I'm never supposed to correct her for any reason, why do so many people teach this word?
> Effisia; I've only done this for potty-training when I first got her (UTI and all, though we didn't know that at the time) and the other day when she peed on her bed. The rest of it has been pre-emptive, thankfully.


Well actually most trainers/behaviourists/etc that use science based training methods don't recommend using 'no' because dogs don't speak English and the word doesn't inherently have meaning to them. Instead you should focus on teach your dog what you -do- want them to do.

Instead, you can distract them (clap your hands, call their name, squeak a toy, etc) and then engage them in an appropriate activity. 

I don't think I have ever told my dog 'no'.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Captain_Russia said:


> cookieface; I just Googled it. I can't list references because my post would go into mod limbo.
> ireth0; So you're telling me that the word "no" is meaningless, then? If I'm never supposed to correct her for any reason, why do so many people teach this word?
> Effisia; I've only done this for potty-training when I first got her (UTI and all, though we didn't know that at the time) and the other day when she peed on her bed. The rest of it has been pre-emptive, thankfully.


You could list names, sites, but not give links. Links seem to be what flags posts for moderation. As Ireth0 said, there's tons of bad information on the internet, especially about dog training.

People teach "no" exactly for the reason Hiraeth mentioned: they don't understand how dogs think. They think dogs have some sort of moral compass to understand the difference between chewing a stick outside and your antique chairs inside or that they can be taught that eliminating inside is wrong and going outside is right.

Never correct? That depend on what you mean by correct. Redirect to a more appropriate activity? Sure. Adjust your management and training approach to prevent undesired behavior and teach more desirable ones? Sure. Use negative punishment in a thoughtful manner? Maybe. Use a nose flick / leash pop / smack on the side to discourage behavior? Not something I'd do or recommend.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

Hiraeth; I suppose I do a hybrid of both, then. She used to chew furniture - when I caught her doing it, I'd tell her "no" and move her away before giving her a chew toy and praise. I never just told her "no" and left it at that.
I had no idea that the word was useless - the places I found all said that it was a useful tool and one of the most important commands to teach. It never really occured to me that it was incorrect when I read it everywhere, but I suppose it does make sense. And what is alpha or dominance theory? I think I've heard of that.
Effisia; You can find a lot of good things on Google, too, though, like this forum or any other GOOD dog training site. I was just running the lottery every time I searched something and had to hope that it was correct - unfortunately it looks like I ended getting mostly bad ones.
ireth0; They don't know the word immediately, of course, but from what I read you teach it by the tone of your voice so they know you're upset. It worked but now I kind of feel like a jerk. I didn't know that was the wrong way to teach a puppy, it was the only thing I saw when I first got her and searched for training tips.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

This morning I rushed my 3 month old puppy outside in sheep pajamas and a tank top, braless, with slippers and no coat, to pee outside because she was howling in her crate since she couldn't hold it any longer. Then, as is the case every morning, she stopped in the middle of breakfast to let me know she had to poop. I know that's why she was barking at me, because in the past I've thought she just wanted attention only to have to clean up poop one second later. Yes, my puppy has to use the bathroom WHILE SHE EATS. Once again, I rush her outside with no shoes on because I didn't have time between putting my coffee down and walking over to the ex pen.

Then, about an hour later, she was playing with the cat. In doing so, she grabbed the placemat we keep a large water bowl on in the living room and started yanking it across the room, splashing about a half a gallon of water all over my carpet. Of course, my knee jerk reaction was to yell NO but, knowing my naughty puppy doesn't know what that means, I put her in the crate with a chew toy, cleaned up the mess and removed the placemat from the area so she doesn't have an opportunity to do it again.

Raising a puppy is 60 percent potty training 35% managing their environment, and 5% fun memories.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I have several dogs and all of them are completely house trained. If I was not paying attention when they were young and they peed on the floor, unless I was right there to take them outside, I just cleaned it up and ignored it and let them outside more often. The very first one I trained this way, the thought did cross my mind that how are they to know they have done wrong if I ignore it? Surprisingly enough, they learned faster than what was used years ago when you punished them for going in the house.

All my dogs go outside first thing in the morning as soon as I wake up. We had another four inches of snow last night on top of the couple of feet we already have so they are really quick to all go out and pee and come back inside. After that they all go back to sleep while I get dressed and eat my breakfast, then they go out again, then get fed. The only time any of them are locked in a crate is overnight or if I am going somewhere and they have to stay at home.

Captain_Russia, can you just pick up her bed in the morning so she does not have access to it before you take her outside?


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

TSTrainer said:


> *snip* Then, as is the case every morning, she stopped in the middle of breakfast to let me know she had to poop. I know that's why she was barking at me, because in the past I've thought she just wanted attention only to have to clean up poop one second later. Yes, my puppy has to use the bathroom WHILE SHE EATS. *snip*


I'm not alone! Titan frequently realizes he needs to poop mid-breakfast and rushes to the back door. I've gone out in 5 degree weather in a tank top and shorts to make sure he gets out in time. Puppy bladders/bowels wait for no one!


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

cookieface; I forget all the ones I had before, but here's a few;
Leerburg - Teaching Your Puppy The Meaning of the Word "NO"!!
Pedigree - How to train your puppy properly
Dog Owner's Guide - Dealing with common problems in puppy's first year
YourPurebredPuppy - Puppy Training Schedule: What To Teach Puppies, and When
Caesar's Way - 5 steps to correct inappropriate dog chewing
I also caught a few episodes of that Caesar guy's TV show and he used collar pops to get the attention of dogs he was walking. I'm honestly not sure about him, though, he seemed to call a lot of dogs dominant but they just looked scared to me, and I don't understand the whole "energy" thing he goes on about.
TSTrainer; Wow, that sounds like quite the experience! I've never had something like that happen... yet....
Kyllobernese; I could probably do that about her bed, though some one else said that she might just not be mature enough yet for a dog bed, I'm not sure.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Most 'house manners' training (peeing outside, not chewing on the furniture or digging into the garbage) _isn't actually 'training_ in the sense of teaching them to perform a behavior on a cue. You don't really TEACH at all for these things (not that you're not guiding learning but it's very different, IMO). They're HABITS that you either form or prevent from forming. 

Where the dog goes to the bathroom? Habit. You let them go inside, the habit becomes going inside and all the correction in the world won't stop it. You get them outside, ever time, the habit becomes going outside and that's what they're going to want to do and try to do. You don't want them in the trash? You don't let them develop a habit of raiding the trash - you prevent them from doing it and eventually it stops occurring to them. You don't want them picking up everything on the floor or chewing the furniture, you prevent that from becoming a habit and encourage a habit of chewing on particular toys or toys kept in particular locations. You don't want a dog to jump on someone to greet them? You never let them do that, but you have them sit every time and sitting to be pet becomes, yep, the habit and default behavior. 

MAKE WHAT YOU WANT YOUR DOG TO DO THE ONLY OPTION and it will become habit. Allow the dog to engage in 'bad' behaviors and make them the default and you're going to need more than the odd correction to change the behavior. Because that's how habits WORK.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

That makes a lot of sense, actually! I hadn't really thought of it as "habit", but you're right!
On a side note, I found this while searching for those articles earlier, I'll quote it:
"In the past 15 years we have seen many all-positive trainers (otherwise known as “+P” trainers) who mistakenly think they can train every dog and never give a dog a correction. These people either lack experience or they know better and simply talk the talk so they can be politically correct.

Not in a million years could any +P trainer anywhere have trained or certified any one of the police service dogs that I worked while I was a K9 handler.

In fact 99.99% of every dog trained in the +P system will eventually be faced with a off leash distraction that is more interesting to that dog than the reward his handler has to offer. When that happens the dog will not follow his owner’s commands, even though the dog knows exactly what his owner is asking. That’s how dog’s get into dangerous situations. This is how +P dog's get in dog fights or hit by cars.

I also don’t have a lot of patience for +P trainering organizations (like Pet Smart) that push purely positive dog training in their training classes and won;t let their trainers talk about corrections. They do a dis-service to new dog owners who makes the mistake of taking their classes.

The fact is there will come a time when every handler is 100% sure that his or her dog fully understands what he is asking his dog to do but the dog ignores the command. When that happens that dog needs some form of a correction to get compliance."

I was wondering what you all think? It seems relevant to what we were just discussing.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Captain_Russia said:


> cookieface; I forget all the ones I had before, but here's a few;
> Leerburg - Teaching Your Puppy The Meaning of the Word "NO"!!
> Pedigree - How to train your puppy properly
> Dog Owner's Guide - Dealing with common problems in puppy's first year
> ...


None of those are sources I would recommend for first time dog owners (and in some cases any dog owners). CM is not a trainer to emulate.
These are reliable, accurate sources of information:
Sophia Yin
Ian Dunbar
Patricia McConnell
Pat Miller
Karen Pryor

I'd highly recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Positive-Dog-Training/dp/0470241845


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Well all-positive is not otherwise known as +P. +P stands for positive punishment which means adding a punishment to decrease a behaviour. All-positive is referred to as +R, meaning adding a reward.

So just based on that alone I would think this person doesn't know much about training.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks for the information!
And I also couldn't help but notice all the grammatical errors he made. No proof-reading needed for his articles, I guess.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

+P is actually positive punishment. That's like... hitting the dog, shocking the dog, basically pain. It's the opposite of what "positive trainers" use. 

Ok. This is probably going to be long.

When it comes to operant conditioning (training) there are four 'quadrants'.

+R (Positive Reinforcement) - Adding something good, like a treat, to make a behavior increase
+P (Positive Punishment) - Adding something bad, like the shock from an ecollar, to make a behavior decrease
-R (Negative Reinforcement) - Removing something bad, (think letting a dog's ear go after a held ear-pinch) to make a behavior increase
-P (Negative Punishment) - Removing something good, like your attention, to make a behavior decrease

So-called "positive-only" trainers basically use +R. Personally, I don't think you can be ALL positive, I think most people who call themselves force-free use both +R and -P (which is what I do). So you use treats and time-outs. 

The argument you have demonstrated is a classic argument given by aversive (pain) based trainers who don't like being told that science and research has shown that they're actually doing more harm than good. Basically, I think that argument is nonsense.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

I like your explanation! It's very helpful. So I guess I was training correctly after all, I just got some other basic things wrong and used "no" when it wasn't necessary. Good to know.
It's really kind of scary that I had to go through all this to figure out something that seems so simple and something all dog owners should know. Maybe I was just horribly unlucky with my search terms and this information is hopefully much easier to find.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Captain_Russia said:


> I honestly think you're coming up with drama that isn't here. I don't care about the weather, I just didn't want to walk outside practically naked, especially when I live with my dad. A minute will not kill her, and yes, she CAN hold it while I change, she just happened to finish eating before I got her leash on to take her out. Again, she did not have an accident in the sense that she was unable to hold it - she purposefully walked all the way to her bed to pee instead of stopping anywhere along the way. And despite the fact that everyone is telling me to feed her after taking her out, no one has been able to give me a source for that position, or logic, when I have sources that tell me the opposite. I don't think it's unreasonable to trust written articles on dog websites over conflicting opinions stated on a public forum.


Any "drama" I come up with is in direct response to what you type. Someone told you to put on a housecoat but you claim you can't due to your father. I told you to sleep in pants & a shirt. 

You said here that she can hold it; apparently not since she's peeing on her bed. 

We have told you to take her out first thing, then feed. You then say you trust written articles over a public forum. YOU chose to come here. Since you don't want to listen to advice, you are welcome to choose to leave as well. It gets old, reading what people tell you, knowing you're going to ignore it. I can guess why you're here but since I don't want even a temp ban, I'll keep it to myself.


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Yeah I use +R and -P in all of my classes and I agree with everything effisia said.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Captain_Russia said:


> I like your explanation! It's very helpful. So I guess I was training correctly after all, I just got some other basic things wrong and used "no" when it wasn't necessary. Good to know.
> It's really kind of scary that I had to go through all this to figure out something that seems so simple and something all dog owners should know. Maybe I was just horribly unlucky with my search terms and this information is hopefully much easier to find.


The amount of misinformation on the internet is terrifying. Correction-based (+P) training is still the go-to method for many people. Heck, there are still people out there who say that you should take your puppy's nose and rub it in their own urine to stop them from peeing inside. 

Internet searches will get you about a thousand different answers, some of them very bad, to any problem you may be having. Posting on this forum will still result in a variety of answers, but I rarely see truly bad advice given here. We have all tailored our training methods to our particular dogs, which results in slight variances in how we do things, but overall the odds are high that all of us combined are going to be able to give you a few good, solid answers to your questions.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

InkedMarie; I've stated this before, but I'll do it again. She dragged her soiled pads onto her bed, which made the bed smell enticing to her. She's peed on it three times - two because there was a schedule fluke and I couldn't get her out on time, and the third because she ate too fast one morning. This is not an on-going or chronic issue, hence why I was arguing against the unecessary set-up of clothing (it takes me less than a minute to dress in the morning). She can hold it absolutely fine, she just thought that her bed was an appropriate pee place because of the smell.
As for the article over forum thing, yes, I think most people would trust articles over forums. It's been made obvious, though, that the particular articles I had been finding were probably not all that great to begin with, and once the concepts people on this forum were talking about had been properly explained (finally) I trust what most of you have said. I'm not an askhole - some one who's going to ask for advice and then ignore it completely. My questions have been answered and a lot of this has been explained, so I'm taking the advice to heart because I can trust it now. If I was ignoring the advice why would I still be here? And you've piqued my interest with the last remark - what could you possibly say about me that would get you a temp ban? I'm not being facetious, I'm actually very curious.
Hiraeth; Do people really rub their dogs' nose in it? What on earth do they expect the dog is going to think?!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Captain_Russia said:


> cookieface; I just Googled it. I can't list references because my post would go into mod limbo.



Actually, you can. If your post gets moderated, you simply....pm a mod to approve it for you, just like everyone else does when it happens to them.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

Oh that's how it works? I thought you just had to wait for them to approve it and there wasn't anything you could do. I've been on a lot of sites like that, there was even one where you could be temp banned for asking. It's good to know for future reference, thank you!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Captain_Russia said:


> Oh that's how it works? I thought you just had to wait for them to approve it and there wasn't anything you could do. I've been on a lot of sites like that, there was even one where you could be temp banned for asking.


 It's pretty impossible for mods to know that a post needs approving if you don't tell us. Threads like this are always good to read, and if you're not sure about whether something is allowed, just ask. We don't bite...much. 
http://www.dogforums.com/dogforums-com-tech-support/367441-post-moderation.html


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

Interesting! I don't know much about web coding, but you might be able to create a special system that sends an alert to a random mod if a post needs approval, it would probably be very helpful. Or instead of being hidden (if that's what currently happens) the post could be moved to a special mod-only forum and moved back once it's approved.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

> ireth0; So you're telling me that the word "no" is meaningless, then? If I'm never supposed to correct her for any reason, why do so many people teach this word?


Typically, a verbal "no!" is paired together with some other form of punishment. 

So in other words, a dog is performing an undesired behavior, the handler says "no!", perhaps the dog looks at the handler oblivious to the meaning of this word at first, and then the dog receives a subsequent physical correction: a collar pop, or a shock, or a poke in the ribs, or a slap on the butt etc. Repeat the process enough times, and the dog will learn that the word "no!" is a PREDICTOR of impending punishment. Thus, in the future the dog may stop an undesired behavior merely on hearing the word, in an attempt to avoid said punishment.

It works, sometimes and to some extent, yet it's often accompanied by troublesome behavioral fallout. Still, not the best way to train a dog. 


And if anyone is interested, the OP's recent quotation came from here //leerburg.com/corrections.htm


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

I never had to do anything physical with her, actually. She learned from my tone that the word meant I was unhappy. Or maybe the guy who had her before did something unpleasant, I don't know.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Annnnd sometimes 'no' just means stop and gets paired with redirection. So when you say 'no' the dog looks to you to find out what it SHOULD be doing/what new thing is going to be headed their direction/moving on. 

Which is every bit as doable as pairing it with punishment.

ie: I say 'no' and my dogs stop what they're doing, look at me and/or move on from the thing they were doing and come TO me.

It's just a word. It means what you make it mean. You could use 'no' as a freaking marker and it wouldn't make any difference to the dog. It is not, however, a deterrent unless paired with something the dog finds unpleasant.


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

Whenever I tell her "no" she'll usually just stop and look at me like "What?" and sometimes she'll come over and sit in front of me. When I first got her it seemed like she was scared of the word, so I thought it had just stopped working like it was supposed to when her behaviour changed. Though it makes sense that she would have associated the word with other things over time - when I first started training her, she thought that "Good girl" meant "treat" and would sniff around on the floor looking for one until I mostly weaned her off of them as training rewards. It's surprisingly easy to train a dog without meaning to.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Okay ... I havent read everything but here is the thing, when I get up the FIRST thing I want to so MYSELF is go potty! I mean I have been asleep for 6-8 hours! It really isnt rocket science to expect that dogs are the same. 

When my boy was younger (he is 16 mos old now and housetrained) I had a pair of tall rubber boots that I could slip on OVER my PJ's to take him out, I live in texas, a state famous for sudden flash flooding, so I get having to deal with mud. I also have a jacket by the door that is lined, and waterproof that I can throw on over my sleep clothes. My dog is GROWN and house trained and I STILL do this; BEFORE he eats, BEFORE I eat BEFORE anything else happens. If you are short on time GET UP EARLIER.

ETA I think you need to read this, titled "It's a puppy, not a problem": http://denisefenzipetdogs.com/2015/08/30/its-a-puppy-not-a-problem/


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

I don't blame you for not reading through everything, it's a lot. Here's basically the situation - my wording made it sound like this was a chronic problem, it's not - she's only had three accidents. Two were schedule flukes, the one specified in the first post was because she ate too fast. She only goes on her bed because she used to drag her soiled pads onto it, which made it smell like the proper place for her to go. I've since removed the bed and will introduce it again when she's older (puppies love to pee on fluffy things in general) after a very good wash. Her house-training has been going well and she does not like to eliminate anyplace else. The current routine we are on works well for both of us and I see no reason to change it. A lot of people said that I should feed her after taking her out - I understand the reasoning, and while I don't think it really matters with her, I'll be doing it anyway.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Captain_Russia said:


> Cheetah; (love your dog's names, by the way!) I think it's worth mentioning that the puppy is four and a half months old, not like I just got her or anything. Her bladder control is very competent - I think it's less "I can't hold it" and more "it's okay for me to go over here". The bed cover is a good idea, I'm really sad that I'll probably have to throw out her nice bed, though. And the padding part I hadn't really thought of, I'm going to try soaking the bed in enzyme cleaner and water to see if that will do more. If it doesn't, she'll just have to get another bed. Thank you for the source, it was interesting to read and some of the info was new, though most of the actual training was exactly what I've been doing. The only problem we have is that she sniffs the ground when she wants to poop, but if she has to pee she just squats with no warning whatsoever. It's about timing with her and it was really a pain but I've mostly got her routine down, it's just accidents every once in a while.


Thanks! Shameless anime freak here. =D Sorry I'm late getting back to this.

I'm glad the article at least provided you with some new information. In addition, it says that puppies must be taken outside first thing to potty. 4 months old is still very little, so I would definitely take the pup out first. That said, Shippo is 10 years old, and I still take him out to potty before I feed him. Heck, I need to do my business first thing in the morning, too lol. Your pup is probably just seeking out that bed because she knows it will absorb the mess and that is satisfying/clean to her - and now, it smells like a potty area, so she just thinks it's the right place to go and is replacing the pee pads with the soft, absorbent bed. When Shippo was a puppy and he peed on his bed, I took the bed away until I was sure I could trust him. He didn't get to have a real dog bed again until after he was like 8 months old. Puppies are basically terrible with dog beds for the most part. But it looks like you've already decided on an old blanket, so that is perfect.

Also, I never really waited for Shippo to let me know he needed to potty (although if he ever did, I'd run him outside immediately). When they are little, they don't always know the sensation of needing to go potty, they're still learning that. And yes, they can still have trouble with this at 4 months, especially if they've been set back by indoor pee pad training - that is very confusing. I always followed the schedule, even if Shippo was not showing signs of needing to go out.

I'm not sure if anyone else has shared this or not, but Kikopup on Youtube has amazing training videos that you might get a lot from. Pay no mind to the "clicker" part, as everything she talks about can be done without a clicker. Here's one on potty training. As with everything else you've looked at, she probably will cover things you've already gone over, but hopefully it will provide something new:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvPiFcG7ROI

Be sure to browse all her videos. She has a ton and I learned a lot from her as well.

*EDIT:* I stumbled upon another great video from Zak George who is also amazing. Check it out. =)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG-gyJP8op0

I didn't catch it, but what kind of enzymatic cleaners (and other cleaners) have you tried so far?


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

The videos look interesting, thank you! I used extra strength Febreeze, I can't remember the brand of carpet powder I used, and I believe the enzyme cleaner is called Petzyme. I ran her bed through the wash with generic laundry detergent which didn't get rid of the smell, I'm going to soak it in the enzyme cleaner mixed with water and run it through the wash again, then put it away until I can trust her with it.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

A lot of people seem to recommend Nature's Miracle for an enzymatic cleaner. I'm a bit out of the loop in that area as I haven't had a puppy in 10 years now and haven't been keeping up to date on any new enzymatic cleaners that have come out, but I'm about to have another one, so I'll be finding out soon enough! =)

Febreze doesn't do anything for dog pee. All it does is mask the smell for us, but the dog can still smell it. Same for carpet powder. I tried them both at one point, long ago, and they didn't work.

Personally, I used to wash pet bedding with detergent, but would also add color-safe (non-chlorine) bleach, and it got the smell out really well, and I never had a problem after. 

And then, I just found this article that has the added step of washing the bedding in vinegar before washing it in detergent and found that interesting. Makes sense, as many detergents and cleaners can set that urine scent into the fabric...
http://pets.thenest.com/clean-extrasmelly-dog-bed-7190.html


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Yeah febreeze is basically useless. Its not a cleaner, its an air freshener. Natures Miracle is still the number one enzymatic cleaner and it comes in spray form for spot cleaning and a gallon jug for laundry/heavier use. I have a bottle in every room of my house.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

TSTrainer said:


> Yeah febreeze is basically useless. Its not a cleaner, its an air freshener. Natures Miracle is still the number one enzymatic cleaner and it comes in spray form for spot cleaning and a gallon jug for laundry/heavier use. I have a bottle in every room of my house.


Best. Invention. EVER. I use it to clean everything, even puke LOL, because it's so good at getting rid of the odor.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Cool, good to know Nature's Miracle has still got it. =)


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

I didn't think the Febreeze would do anything, I just basically used everything in the house to try and be safe. Thank you very much for the article, by the way! I'm saving it for sure.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I'm glad you found it useful, I hope it helps. =)


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## Captain_Russia (Nov 18, 2015)

I got her a used crate (very large, a $150 crate for $35) which has a fluffy little white pad. I was dubious about the pad because of her bed issue, but I left it in because it would be easy to wash and most of the towels I have would not be big enough to cover the whole crate. She's had no accidents in it all, even though I missed one of her potty times (my cat burst through the screen top of my snake terrarium [naughty Kouga!] and we had to search for the snake! Happy to say we found her safe curled on top of a heat vent under a chest of drawers.) I'm confident she can have her bed back after a good wash, but I'm going to wait for a month or so to be certain because the bed is very difficult to wash if she pees on it again. I also put a blanket on top of the crate so it's like a little den now! She loves it. And I would like thoughts on wether water bowls are okay to keep in her crate or not? It's a weighted one, and there's a part of the edge of the pad which the previous dog had chewed the stuffing out of (I sewed it up) which is the perfect size to fit the bowl into, but I'm not sure if it would keep her from knocking it over. I could try and take pictures of the crate if you'd like to see. Thank you!
Ah, on second thought, the water bowl is probably a terrible idea. I just found her in the process if flipping the pad completely upside-down. xD


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

They make water bowls that you can directly attach to the crate that I really like and use for the adult dogs in the hohse. I don't keep water in my puppy's crate because she's never usually in there with the door closed for more than a couple of hours and she still has no bladder control


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I like the water bowls you can attach to the crate door as well. I tried the regular ones, weighted ones, but I'd always come home to Shippo laying in the pool of water he had spilled all over himself - yuck!

Also, I do the same thing with Shippo's crate. He loves his crate to be covered like a den. =) He would always flip crate pads upside-down and lay underneath them LOL. It's one thing that made me decide on using blankets or towels instead.

Grats on the no accidents! =)


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