# Proctor & Gamble purchases Natura..



## Skeeski (Feb 4, 2007)

Just saw this on another forum, and felt it needed sharing. 

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/ar...or--gamble-purchases-natura-pet-products.html

hopfully the link works, if it doesn't it's on the front page of the website.


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

Just saw this on another forum I'm on also. Not to happy about it, but I kinda figured it was on its way.....

I just switched from a Natura product to a Champion product, so I won't be affected by it. But IF (not saying it will) the formula changes, there might be quite a lot of dogs who have allergies that don't take the new formula very well.

Hopefully they won't change the formula at all or at least not that much.... And they do this right after they announce their new Grain Free products


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

WHATTTTTTTTT
This is horrible news


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Seriously? Crap.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

> "These outstanding brands and the great employees of Natura Pet Products will complement our Eukanuba and Iams brands very well," said Dan Rajczak, senior vice president of P&G's global pet care and snacks businesses.


Literally gave me chills when I read this. Truly unfortunate.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

So horrible. Sigh. Someone should write to the Natura owners! They're totally going back on all their "beliefs".

Guess I'm down to Champion Petfoods' Orijen/Acana and Old Mother Hubbard's Wellness CORE now.


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## Skeeski (Feb 4, 2007)

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> Just saw this on another forum I'm on also. Not to happy about it, but I kinda figured it was on its way.....
> 
> I just switched from a Natura product to a Champion product, so I won't be affected by it. But IF (not saying it will) the formula changes, there might be quite a lot of dogs who have allergies that don't take the new formula very well.
> 
> Hopefully they won't change the formula at all or at least not that much.... And they do this right after they announce their new Grain Free products


We too have mostly switched to the Champion pet foods and rotate between them. We still like to throw in the odd bag of EVO every now and then though. Hopefully they don't change anything With the formulas but I have a feeling it's eventual.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

This bag of EVO is my last, then.  They don't even sell Orijen here. 

More incentive to make raw work, though. We're well on our way.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> This bag of EVO is my last, then.  They don't even sell Orijen here.


I think I'm going to go out and buy my last bag of EVO ever this weekend. Such a shame, I really like EVO.

I wonder if the petstore I buy from will stop carrying Natura products then.. They don't carry any of the crappy foods like Iams, Nutro etc. I think it's a store policy.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I really like EVO too. Works much better than Orijen for my dogs.

I guess it's true though:

Procter & Gamble to purchase Natura Pet Products - BusinessWeek

Procter & Gamble to purchase Natura Pet Products - Yahoo! Finance

Procter & Gamble to purchase Natura Pet Products - Forbes.com

http://www.pginvestor.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=104574&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1422726


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## cavaliermom (May 28, 2008)

OMG - what bad news. Although I feed my dog raw, I am an instructor and recommend holistic dog foods - will have to scratch a few off my list. YOu know that P&G will eventually change the formulas to something more cost effective. How discouraging!

Diane


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## kerplunk105 (Mar 5, 2008)

That's crappy news


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I read this another forum. What a shame. I used to feed Innova when Jackson was a puppy. He's been on Acana for a while now and I finally hope/think we found THE food.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Even if they don't change the formulas, I won't be buying the Natura line anymore. P&G tests on animals, so I try my best not to support them.


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## marc515 (Nov 27, 2007)

Crap; I just put a post here last week asking if CN was still a great product.

Hopefully, PG doesn't mees up a good thing, but they will as the $$ drives the
train.

So, what do you guys recommend is a equal alternative????
m


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

Ugh... It just really stinks. I loved using EVO for Harleigh's treats too... We're on Herring and Salmon kibble for treats now, but I was going to try Red Meat next time....

Guess I'll have to find something new! Shouldn't be to hard because she loves every food put in front of her  But still....

Marc515, another alternative is Champion Pet Foods. Orijen or Acana are both really good foods. They might be a little bit pricier than Natura, but I don't think its by much. Just something to look into if you want


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

marc515 said:


> Crap; I just put a post here last week asking if CN was still a great product.
> 
> Hopefully, PG doesn't mees up a good thing, but they will as the $$ drives the
> train.
> ...


The Wellness line is a good alternative. I would rate Champion Petfoods first on my list of manufacturers, followed by Wellpet. Eagle pack holistic selects is pretty ok as well, but I don't know which company produces that. I don't really trust Diamond, which manufatures a good 50% of dog foos.. Including TOTW.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I trust Diamond a heck of a lot more than P&G! I have heard a rumor that Diamond was thinking about buying Wellpet. Is this just a rumor?

I'm taking it all as a sign to fully switch to raw for good.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm soooo disappointed! I don't feed any Natura foods (as a whole, my dogs don't do well on them), but I was gonna try the new Cal. Natural grain-frees when they hit the shelves. Now, probably not!! I love Wellness CORE! I know Wellpet owns both Wellness and EPHS. If Diamond buys Wellpet, hmmmm.....I trust them, with reservations....we'll see. Anyway, I'm feeding Blue Buffalo at the moment and am happy with it. This is just sooo disturbing!


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> I trust Diamond a heck of a lot more than P&G! I have heard a rumor that Diamond was thinking about buying Wellpet. Is this just a rumor?
> 
> I'm taking it all as a sign to fully switch to raw for good.


Ugh... pet food companies.. lol. I don't really trust diamond 100%, but P&G.. goodness. I don't use any P&G products anymore. I used to LOVE Pantene. But yuck, P&G. Disgusting company. It sucks that their products are EVERYWHERE. So hard to avoid.

This sucks.  EVO and Orijen are pretty much the only brands of grain free that I'll be able to get when I move home.. and now it's down to just Orijen/Acana. Sigh.


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## w8ing4rain (Sep 4, 2008)

We are picking up our new dog tomorrow. She is currently on Canidae so I purchased a small bag with the intention of transitioning her over to Innova. I still have quite a bit of Innova left over from Nanuq. Now this. Should I just keep her on the Canidae or start the search all over again for a food? Switching her to the Innova is still an option but now I'm a little leery of it. I don't want to keep switching her around. What to do, what to do?


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## PandaBear (Sep 6, 2009)

This is horrible, I just wanted to try EVO as Charlie is not doing as good as I wanted on Orijen.Now I am limited on Orijen,Acan and NV.


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## That'llDo (Apr 13, 2010)

Can someone direct to me to some sources on why they object to Proctor & Gamble? Or is it just the corporate take-over/makers of Iams aspect that everyone dislikes?

If it is the latter, I bet they won't change things at first. If they're smart they know that people who buy Natura products buy them for their quality. That's _why_ they want to go for a brand known for being high-quality and holistic, right? Because they know they won't get you with Iams, but they might with Evo. So, you may have awhile to come up with a solution before things go downhill.

I just switched Rigel from Innova to Orijen anyway, since I think his digestive system is happier with grain-free. I was debating switching Pixel too, although I am not crazy about changing something that is working well. I was concerned about cost, but I recall that I worked out that, while the price/lb is higher for Orijen, with the difference in calories, the price/day is actually slightly less expensive for feeding Pix. Where the heck is that spreadsheet, so I can check...


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

That'llDo said:


> Can someone direct to me to some sources on why they object to Proctor & Gamble? Or is it just the corporate take-over/makers of Iams aspect that everyone dislikes?


http://www.dogforums.com/5-dog-food-forum/75845-iams-consumers.html


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

At least one of P&G dog food companies, Iams, is KNOWN to have committed acts of animal testing and animal cruelty as well. That I don't like.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

My mom works on a factory line for P&G and I just told her this news and she said, "They will probably keep the formula the same for a little while, mass market it, and then change it to make it cheaper"


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> I just switched from a Natura product to a Champion product, so I won't be affected by it.


What are you feeding? I just finished switching from Orijen to Acana, they had their first meal of only Acana yesterday afternoon. They did great on Orijen but I wanted to see how they did on Acana, good to have more for a rotation


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> What are you feeding? I just finished switching from Orijen to Acana, they had their first meal of only Acana yesterday afternoon. They did great on Orijen but I wanted to see how they did on Acana, good to have more for a rotation


I switched to Acana Grasslands. She was on Natura Healthwise, but wasn't doing very good on it. She seems to be doing good on this, but her ears do smell a bit funky....  I think that may be something else though, I'll just have to keep my eye on them.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

That'llDo said:


> Can someone direct to me to some sources on why they object to Proctor & Gamble? Or is it just the corporate take-over/makers of Iams aspect that everyone dislikes?


I object to P&G because, as I already stated, they test on animals.


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## That'llDo (Apr 13, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> I object to P&G because, as I already stated, they test on animals.


Thank you for the link. I will definitely check it out, as I do try to be conscientious about where I spend my money. 

(Laurelin, I appreciate your link as well, but I am distrustful of PETA in general. They would probably label me as cruel and anti-animal, and I have some serious concerns about how they treat humans in their quest to protect animals. Nonetheless, thank you for responding.)

Sorry for the thread derail.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

That'llDo said:


> Thank you for the link. I will definitely check it out, as I do try to be conscientious about where I spend my money.
> 
> (Laurelin, I appreciate your link as well, but I am distrustful of PETA in general. They would probably label me as cruel and anti-animal, and I have some serious concerns about how they treat humans in their quest to protect animals. Nonetheless, thank you for responding.)
> 
> Sorry for the thread derail.


I try my hardest to be conscientious about my spending as well, but I confess that it can be difficult. Many of the products from more conscientious companies are significantly more expensive than their animal-tested counterparts. It can be hard to find alternatives for certain products (Pepto Bismol, for example, works _really well_!). Sometimes it's even challenging to know whether or not a product is manufactured by a particular company. I mean, you have to do at least a little homework to know that Aussie haircare products, Covergirl cosmetics, Tampax tampons, and Dawn dishwashing liquid (among others, of course) are all owned by P&G.

Sigh. It's very complicated.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

That'llDo said:


> Thank you for the link. I will definitely check it out, as I do try to be conscientious about where I spend my money.
> 
> (Laurelin, I appreciate your link as well, but I am distrustful of PETA in general. They would probably label me as cruel and anti-animal, and I have some serious concerns about how they treat humans in their quest to protect animals. Nonetheless, thank you for responding.)
> 
> Sorry for the thread derail.


99% of the people here don't like PETA, however I just remembered this was discussed only a few days ago. Didn't feel like digging up anything else.


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## That'llDo (Apr 13, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> I try my hardest to be conscientious about my spending as well, but I confess that it can be difficult. Many of the products from more conscientious companies are significantly more expensive than their animal-tested counterparts. It can be hard to find alternatives for certain products (Pepto Bismol, for example, works _really well_!). Sometimes it's even challenging to know whether or not a product is manufactured by a particular company. I mean, you have to do at least a little homework to know that Aussie haircare products, Covergirl cosmetics, Tampax tampons, and Dawn dishwashing liquid (among others, of course) are all owned by P&G.
> 
> Sigh. It's very complicated.


Very complicated. I already refuse to buy Unilever brands, which compete with P&G in a lot of products. Pretty soon there are going to be no major brands of toothpaste and deodorant I can buy! So, I will have to pay outrageous prices for them from safe companies, or be conscientious but smelly... Voting with your dollars is much easier in theory than in practice.


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## That'llDo (Apr 13, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> 99% of the people here don't like PETA, however I just remembered this was discussed only a few days ago. Didn't feel like digging up anything else.


Totally understandable. I didn't mean to sound critical of you, I just wanted to acknowledge that you had responded to my question. Really, it is too bad PETA has done so very many things to damage its own reputation that I feel so distrustful of them, even when they are telling the truth. It is sad, but if they told me the sky was blue, I'd go check. Thanks again for responding--not being a part of the set:"iams consumers" I had in fact missed it.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*sigh* Unfortunately for me, I have to patronize some of those brands, as I am allergic to many other commercial products in terms of soaps and deodorants (I can only use Secret, for example...other brands have caused hives, lesions, etc...) and I cannot afford "organic" and the like.


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## marc515 (Nov 27, 2007)

FilleBelle,

The link you posted is to a PDF document with no date or source.

Could you please provide source so we all can validate the article?

Thank you,....marc


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

It's from a website called Caring Consumers.

You can find similar documentation at Source Watch,Uncaged, In Defense of Animals, and a dozen other websites you can get to by Googling "Proctor and Gamble animal testing."

P&G freely admits on their own website to testing their products on animals.


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## waterkeeper03 (Aug 18, 2009)

Wow word travels fast eh? I took the day to think about it, and I came on to see if anybody here heard.. apparently you all have.

I didn't see it in the links, there are obviously a lot of business sites reporting things. here is a link to the actual release from Natura sent out to the retailers this morning.


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## MoonStr80 (Oct 9, 2006)

How lovely! This could explain why my dogs were having major STOOLS. Even though I had friend, that I convinced switching from IAMS to California Natural not to long ago


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

This upsets me so much I don't even know what to say.......................


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## PandaBear (Sep 6, 2009)

One problem that I see is that now many people will start buying Orijen/Acana, which could potentially either higher their prices because of the demand and cost to make such a high quality food.Or the quality of Orijen/Acana will decrease.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

PandaBear said:


> One problem that I see is that now many people will start buying Orijen/Acana, which could potentially either higher their prices because of the demand and cost to make such a high quality food.Or the quality of Orijen/Acana will decrease.


LOL why do people think Orijen is the ONLY alternative lol. helllooo theres still Natures Variety, Wellness, Merrick, Fromm, By nature, natural balance, Blue buff etc.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

PandaBear said:


> One problem that I see is that now many people will start buying Orijen/Acana, which could potentially either higher their prices because of the demand and cost to make such a high quality food.Or the quality of Orijen/Acana will decrease.


Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense at all... When you have a manufacturing plant (like Orijen does), your operating cost does NOT go up when you produce MORE. In fact, when demand goes UP, and they get to produce MORE in the same facility, their cost of production will go DOWN. Demand and supply is not as simple as if A, then B. 

Also, if they increase their prices, they will lose customers. The petfood industry is not an oligopoly or a monopoly, so they can't afford to raise prices just because demand is up. Did you ever take in-depth economics classes?



Jordan S said:


> LOL why do people think Orijen is the ONLY alternative lol. helllooo theres still Natures Variety, Wellness, Merrick, Fromm, By nature, natural balance, Blue buff etc.


That's true! Although, I didn't know By Nature produces a grain-free product? Also, what I think is key is that Blue Buffalo, Natural Balance and TONNES of other food are made by the same company--Diamond. If you do your research, you'll notice that lots of brands go back to Diamond. Some people don't trust diamond because they were involved in food recalls. So in reality, if you want to feed grain free, and you want an excellent producer who has a stellar track record, you're pretty much stuck with a handful of companies only.


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## CorgiKarma (Feb 10, 2009)

MoonStr80 said:


> How lovely! This could explain why my dogs were having major STOOLS.


They only announced the buy-out, nothing in the formula has changed. _Yet_.


Jordan S said:


> LOL why do people think Orijen is the ONLY alternative lol. helllooo theres still Natures Variety, Wellness, Merrick, Fromm, By nature, natural balance, Blue buff etc.


I second this! Fromm is a great one, too!

I was so upset to hear about this. My dog is on Wellness CORE(EVO was too rich) but my cat was rotating between EVO and Nature's Variety. Looks like it's strictly Nature's Variety now 

A lot of people were saying that Orijen is too expensive when actually, per pound, it is often a better deal than EVO, CORE, Nature's Variety, etc.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

CorgiKarma said:


> I was so upset to hear about this. My dog is on Wellness CORE(EVO was too rich) but my cat was rotating between EVO and Nature's Variety. Looks like it's strictly Nature's Variety now
> 
> A lot of people were saying that Orijen is too expensive when actually, per pound, it is often a better deal than EVO, CORE, Nature's Variety, etc.


In Canada, Orijen is actually cheaper than CORE. I have no idea why CORE is so expensive here! It's like $18 for the 4lb fish flavour. That's way more expensive than Orijen per pound! I like NV as well.. the only problem with it is that all their formulas have chicken (or was it turkey) meal and some dogs don't do well on chicken..


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## CorgiKarma (Feb 10, 2009)

lucidity said:


> In Canada, Orijen is actually cheaper than CORE. I have no idea why CORE is so expensive here! It's like $18 for the 4lb fish flavour. That's way more expensive than Orijen per pound! I like NV as well.. the only problem with it is that all their formulas have chicken (or was it turkey) meal and some dogs don't do well on chicken..


Only the chicken formula contains chicken meal. Rabbit contains chicken fat, but that doesn't cause a reaction in dogs with chicken allergies.

The thing I wonder now is, where are they going to source the meat for Natura products now? Somehow I doubt it will be North America...


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

P&G stock was down 35% today on the NASDAQ. Coincidence? I think not...


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## puppy.l0ve (May 2, 2010)

this is so unfortunate, but it's good to know. since we recently found out of wonderful of a company iams/p&g is (note the sarcasm) and we've been on the hunt for finding new foods, innova and evo were two we were considering, however it looks like we'll have to scratch those.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

I emailed natura with this response and am anxious to hear back or at the very least get an autoresponse that natura prepared for the many pet owners that are emailing about this too. 

"I'll I'm going to say is that your going to loose a LOT of customers because of this. EVO is from this point forward, no longer in my brand rotation, and I've given my innova-feeding friends the memo and they bought another holistic brand and are transitioning their cats to that. You promised to make sure manufacturing stayed inside YOUR doors and you obviously were not true to your word. Considering the pickiest of dog breeders and owners considered you the pioneer in quality control, considering they considered you a "more than perfect food" that just tells me that no companies are to be trusted, theres no way pork necks and chicken backs can merge with a crap company so raw is where I might be headed(well not really, I'm going over to Natures variety supplemented with raw, i was just trying to be dramatic lol) 

So Thank You natura or proctor and gamble should I say, not the news I wanted to hear today as my day was crappy enough as it was."


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

I can't believe that EVO is gone (figuratively speaking) I was thinking about recommending EVO to some family, but not anymore!! Grrrr how frustrating!!


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Jordan S said:


> I emailed natura with this response and am anxious to hear back or at the very least get an autoresponse that natura prepared for the many pet owners that are emailing about this too.
> 
> "I'll I'm going to say is that your going to loose a LOT of customers because of this. EVO is from this point forward, no longer in my brand rotation, and I've given my innova-feeding friends the memo and they bought another holistic brand and are transitioning their cats to that. You promised to make sure manufacturing stayed inside YOUR doors and you obviously were not true to your word. Considering the pickiest of dog breeders and owners considered you the pioneer in quality control, considering they considered you a "more than perfect food" that just tells me that no companies are to be trusted, theres no way pork necks and chicken backs can merge with a crap company so raw is where I might be headed(well not really, I'm going over to Natures variety supplemented with raw, i was just trying to be dramatic lol)
> 
> So Thank You natura or proctor and gamble should I say, not the news I wanted to hear today as my day was crappy enough as it was."


You know, maybe you should send them an e-mail directing them to this thread specifically.. lol, so they'll get an idea of just how many people are gonna hate them now.


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## waterkeeper03 (Aug 18, 2009)

> Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense at all... When you have a manufacturing plant (like Orijen does), your operating cost does NOT go up when you produce MORE. In fact, when demand goes UP, and they get to produce MORE in the same facility, their cost of production will go DOWN. Demand and supply is not as simple as if A, then B.


I disagree a little. when such a small company experiences rapid growth they may not be able to keep up with production. their vendors will have a hard time getting inventory, their suppliers may not be able to keep up with demand.

HOWEVER, i seriously doubt that arcana is going to consume the load of people that will switch off EVO, and I doubt that 10% of the people who feed Natura foods have even heard the news yet.


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## marc515 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thank you for the info!


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

You completely missed my point. Your argument is irrelevant to the point I was making. Sure, supplies might be not enough for demand, but OPERATING costs are FIXED. When you have a plant, your operating cost is the same whether you produce 100kg or 1000kg of food. Therefore, there is really no valid reason for Champion to increase prices.

1. Because their costs probably won't rise.
2. Because premium dog food is not a basic commodity like sugar or salt. 

Therefore, if they increase their prices just because demand is up, consumers will definitely look elsewhere. Like I said, the petfood industry is NOT an oligopoly. None of the companies can afford to raise their prices JUST because they can.



waterkeeper03 said:


> I disagree a little. when such a small company experiences rapid growth they may not be able to keep up with production. their vendors will have a hard time getting inventory, their suppliers may not be able to keep up with demand.
> 
> HOWEVER, i seriously doubt that arcana is going to consume the load of people that will switch off EVO, and I doubt that 10% of the people who feed Natura foods have even heard the news yet.


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## Independent George (Mar 26, 2009)

Wow, word spread fast. I just spoke with the owners of my incredibly awesome local pet shop, and word is the founders of Natura are retiring, and needed someone to buy them out. P&G met their price. Obviously I'm not happy about the result, but if that's the story, I really can't begrudge them for it; I can't imagine any of their competitors in the holistic market had enough reserve capital to buy them out completely. 



CorgiKarma said:


> They only announced the buy-out, nothing in the formula has changed. _Yet_.


My primary concern is not the formula changing, but the sourcing of their supplies. One of the things I loved about Natura products was the fact that they maintained strict control over the entire supply chain. I would imagine one of the first changes P&G would make is to switch to the same suppliers they use for their other products, while technically keeping the formula the same.


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## CorgiKarma (Feb 10, 2009)

Independent George said:


> My primary concern is not the formula changing, but the sourcing of their supplies. One of the things I loved about Natura products was the fact that they maintained strict control over the entire supply chain. I would imagine one of the first changes P&G would make is to switch to the same suppliers they use for their other products, while technically keeping the formula the same.


That is my concern also, I was just responding to the poster saying their dogs had not been doing well on a Natura product. Since the buy out just happened, that is not the reason.


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## waterkeeper03 (Aug 18, 2009)

> You completely missed my point.


your right I did. x_x


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## doggin' it (Nov 6, 2009)

This is terrible news. I recently stumbled upon a great deal on some Innova Flex canned food which my picky dogs love but I will definitely avoid future batches.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what's going to happen. They'll keep things the same for a little while, then lower costs and quality to maximize profits. Just pure and simple greed. Instead of reassuring me, the statement from Natura made me extremely uneasy.

I can't really blame the owners, but it looks like they just sold out to the highest bidder knowing full well P&G has a much different philosophy. What a shame.

I hate when greedy big businesses stick their fingers in everything and screw things up. As consumers have gotten more informed about things like holistic, quality dog foods the market has grown and now they want a piece of the lucrative action.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I can't really blame the owners, but it looks like they just sold out to the highest bidder knowing full well P&G has a much different philosophy.


And that's how business works. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that the other holistic foods had the money to buy them out :-/


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## BrooklynNick (May 7, 2010)

I hate Proctor & Gamble soooo much! They do a lot of terrible animal testing, including on dogs!


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## w8ing4rain (Sep 4, 2008)

This is so frustrating. I got my new dog on Thursday. I have been trying to feed her Canidae as that is what the foster was feeding her. She refuses to eat it. I offered her some Innova that I had left from my other dog and she loves, loves loves it. I will feed her what is left of the bag but not sure what I will do from there. I wish I could just keep her on the Innova since she seems to like it so much.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I'm kind of confused. Does that mean Natura products won't be sourced in the USA anymore? Are they still using the same plant or is the food made somewhere else now?

Natura was my 2nd favorite pet food company. Their product quality used to be excellent and I trusted them completely. What a huge bummer!


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

lucidity said:


> In Canada, Orijen is actually cheaper than CORE. I have no idea why CORE is so expensive here! It's like $18 for the 4lb fish flavour. That's way more expensive than Orijen per pound! I like NV as well.. the only problem with it is that all their formulas have chicken (or was it turkey) meal and some dogs don't do well on chicken..


We also have Horizon Legacy which is actually really good as well. But I don't think you can find it when you move back home.

It's actually still better than England. England doesn't have any american dog food at all. I was looking for Wellness, Fromm, all Natura products, Merrick and there was nothing at all.

3 years ago, the best dog food in England was Royal Canin or James WellBeloved. 

About a year and a half ago they finally have Orijen. Thank goodness. I'm not sure if they have Acana right now or not. Dog food selection there is so crappy it's unbelievable!


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## doggin' it (Nov 6, 2009)

What really irks me about P&G is the blatant false advertising they do. How on earth can a company like that be trusted?? Before I knew any better, I was feeding my first puppy Eukanuba because it was recommended to me by a few people and I believed it was a quality product. The "100% nutrition, 0% filler" claim is an outrageous lie, I can't believe they can get away with it.

I remember asking a specialty pet store owner about Eukanuba when I was making the switch and he told me they used to be pretty good before P&G bought them. 

"For the foreseeable future..." Hmmm.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Here's what a friend on another site said (she works at a pet food store). I'm sure she won't mind me posting it here.



> I talked to our distributor for Natura products.
> 
> Apparently it's all been in the works for quite a while and that the owner of Natura was getting terminally ill. He said that the company allegedly is going to stay in the hands of Natura, but be owned and funded by P&G. It's going to stay in their facilities etc.
> 
> However people are starting to get surveys about changing ingredients in the dog and cat foods. There has also been reports of dogs and cats just recently having troubles with the Natura foods like puking, diarrhea, lethargy. Pretty much the same thing that happened with the changed Canidae foods. So something fishy is going on. Watch your ingredient lists closely guys.


Also, there have been surveys going out some time that do indicate that the formula will be changed (and not in a good way). Here is what I've heard it says (you can't actually access the survey unless they sent you something)



> Currently, EVO Red Meat contains five different red meat products. Consideration is being given to adjusting the EVO Red Meat formulation to include two types of red meat protein, Lamb Meal and Beef which will result in a more balanced formula. This change may reduce the level of protein in the food from 42% to as much as 31%. The new EVO Red Meat will have a more balanced distribution of calories from protein, carbohydrate and fat. The formula will remain grain-free.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Ugh! So basically using less meat of good quality. Although I don't have problems with the lower protein content. Acana is pretty much in the 32% range as well which I like more but it shouldn't be done by decreasing meat to reduce cost. That's what it seems like to me.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> We also have Horizon Legacy which is actually really good as well. But I don't think you can find it when you move back home.
> 
> It's actually still better than England. England doesn't have any american dog food at all. I was looking for Wellness, Fromm, all Natura products, Merrick and there was nothing at all.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I actually like Horizon Legacy as well! I'll definitely try that out.. it's too bad that they only have that 1 chicken flavour for their grain-free line.

I don't really know what I can get back home yet.. I found some petstore websites and it seems like they have Natura, Ziwipeak, Orijen, Acana. That's about it. That's why I'm so upset that I can't even feed Cadence EVO anymore.  

Oh well, today I gave him an entire chicken wing and he almost finished it!! So maybe I'll think about going raw when I get home.. my mom should be able to get meat for cheap from the market, and she's the pro when it comes to buying meat so it should be good  or maybe she'll have time to homecook for him, so I'll definitely look into that.

Ugh, petfood companies GRR. What Laurelin posted sounds SO IFFY. I really don't trust the company anymore. I'm not going anywhere near any Natura products from now on!


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Only 1 chicken wing? Nia ate a whole 1 lb steak once when she was eating raw O_O. I can't believe my mom just gave a whole steak to her when I wasn't home. She said weren't we feeding raw?? oh she remembered to give her a chicken foot for bone content. Geez, it's disturbing how much food Nia can eat if she wants to.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Haha, yeah! It was the wing with the drummette on, lol! He actually already had his breakfast.. and then my friends & I went to Belcarra lake to celebrate my birthday and I brought Cadence along.. and he had a bunch of treats along the way. But then when we got there he KEPT eating goose poop!! It was SO GROSS. I had to distract him so I gave him a chicken wing we were supposed to barbeque, haha. My friends were like, "what?! He's eating it raw?! Are you sure he's not gonna be sick?!" Funny how little people know about raw feeding, lol!

But yeah, it took him like HOURS to finish it.. he left a small bit though, haha. I must say.. it sounded kind of odd to hear him chomping on the bones.. chicken wing bones are ok to eat though, right? I've never given him any raw except for the premade kind before -_-""


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Wings are just fine. I feed mine them all the time. (well Mia, summer is still not too keen on them) Paps should only get 4-5 ounces of raw a day according to most sites (well 3 according to some but mine need about 5 to keep weight on it seems).


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Oh, ok that's good. I always get confused.. to the measurements include the weight of bones??

Cadence eats about 4-5 medallions of NV a day when he gets raw.. I think 1 medallion is 1oz so yeah, you're right.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Yeah include the bones. You need about 80% meat, 10% organ, 10% bone total. I tend to eyeball things and 'go with the poop' lol. A wing is pretty bone heavy so the next groups of meals have little or no bone in them.

I'm doing raw again for the first time in a few years. So far so good although in order to make sure Summer is getting bone I have to give her premade for now. Mia is on full raw though. Good news though, Summer has chewed up two recreational bones this week!


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Hmm... I don't even know where to buy organs around here! Lol, I'm going to have to look around.. I think I'm probably gonna stick to the premade kind for now, though.

Yay Summer!! Good for her. I think she's taking longer to adjust maybe because she's older than Mia? I seriously think that the bones really help with teeth cleaning, though. Today when I was brushing Cadence's teeth I noticed that they're much cleaner than usual! Must be the wing bones he had today..


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

It's not only that they may change the formulas of Natura foods, it's also the sourcing of their ingredients. Wellness had or are still having the same issues because they changed the source of some of their ingredients when they were bought out by Wellpet. That is what sucks about these small companies, they always get bought out.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

lucidity said:


> Hmm... I don't even know where to buy organs around here! Lol, I'm going to have to look around.. I think I'm probably gonna stick to the premade kind for now, though.
> 
> Yay Summer!! Good for her. I think she's taking longer to adjust maybe because she's older than Mia? I seriously think that the bones really help with teeth cleaning, though. Today when I was brushing Cadence's teeth I noticed that they're much cleaner than usual! Must be the wing bones he had today..


You can get chicken liver and beef liver pretty easily at the local grocer here. Comes in tubs. also, do you have an Asian market? I hear that's a good place to go shopping for some more non typical types of meat.

I can't wait for Summer to transition fully. This has been one more nail in the coffin so to speak as far as deciding to do raw full time. She's getting there.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

*For everyone who has a facebook:*
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Just-Say-No-to-Natura-Pet-Products-Selling-Out/124100980934974?v=wall


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## Sonn84 (Mar 29, 2008)

I am tired of dog food companies! Thinking about just switching my dogs over to raw again and give it another shot. 

P&G are going to destroy the Natura product line... 

My oldest girl just now got adjusted to EVO so I guess this will be my last bag of that. And that goes for the cats and ferrets as well I loved their cat and ferret foods but may give raw a try with them as well just switch them all on the semi-same schedule. 

Ugh


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

I could never trust a company that already makes dish soap, detergent, disinfectants, diapers and tampons with making dog food. Small pet food has one sole focus and that's what I prefer.


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## YorkieBjorkie (May 10, 2010)

OMG. Why do they have to pull stuff like this. Don't they know that we care about these issues and would rather not have things go in this direction. I really liked using the EVO product for the past little while put that will most likely change now. 
I suppose it's time to look into some other options.

YB


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## nneessaa (Feb 18, 2010)

I just thought of a way this could be a good thing. They are going to lower the quality of the ingredients and maybe lower the protein levels, but overall the food will STILL be better than Iams or Pedigree. Since they are mass marketing this to the public, more dogs will get better food than Iams. So, the dog owners who do proper research about what goes in our pets bodies (us) will switch foods, but the owners who just listen to commercials (most people) will end up buying the mass marketed food.

So, it could be a good thing, right?


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

Is Natura products still going to be China free?

What about the animal testing?

Seriously........big bummer.

I guess I am going to seriously stock up on Evo first thing in the morning tomorrow.
Going to buy like 3-4 bags and that is the last time I am ever going to buy this brand of food.


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## alapaha (May 23, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> Even if they don't change the formulas, I won't be buying the Natura line anymore. P&G tests on animals, so I try my best not to support them.


P & G tests on animals! I will definitely NOT support them.


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## Cytosol (Jan 19, 2010)

I am not siding with P&G on this subject, but I am a little curious why people would refuse to buy the food simply on the basis that P&G tests on animals? I don't support animal testing in any way, and am disgusted by the thought of it, but it is a necessary process in the development of safe products for human and animal consumption. It's a bit contradictive to say that you will stop purchasing this food solely on that fact, then go out and purchase all the other thousands of products that P&G produces.

Many people aren't aware that almost every product that is out there (even so called animal friendly products) contain ingredients that were developed and tested by using animals as test subjects. It is a necessary step in the production of foods and consumables to ensure that the end result is safe and fit for use. 

Anyways, stepping away from that heated subject, I will continue to purchase the HealthWise brand because my dog does great on it. However, if I start seeing the ingredients going downhill (or as soon as I see any form of Corn in the food) I am dumping it for another brand, and going through the painful process of finding something that my puppy does well on. Until then, I am going to continue to purchase this fantastic food, regardless of what company my money is going to.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

*sigh*

Wally is doing so well on Innova. I'd hate to change his food. 

Hopefully, they will just leave the formula the same. 

Otherwise - back to quickly trying to decide what new food to try and then having to hope it agrees with his system and that he likes it.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Cytosol said:


> I am not siding with P&G on this subject, but I am a little curious why people would refuse to buy the food simply on the basis that P&G tests on animals? I don't support animal testing in any way, and am disgusted by the thought of it, but it is a necessary process in the development of safe products for human and animal consumption. It's a bit contradictive to say that you will stop purchasing this food solely on that fact, then go out and purchase all the other thousands of products that P&G produces.
> 
> Many people aren't aware that almost every product that is out there (even so called animal friendly products) contain ingredients that were developed and tested by using animals as test subjects. It is a necessary step in the production of foods and consumables to ensure that the end result is safe and fit for use.
> 
> Anyways, stepping away from that heated subject, I will continue to purchase the HealthWise brand because my dog does great on it. However, if I start seeing the ingredients going downhill (or as soon as I see any form of Corn in the food) I am dumping it for another brand, and going through the painful process of finding something that my puppy does well on. Until then, I am going to continue to purchase this fantastic food, regardless of what company my money is going to.


It's a principle type thing.

If a doctor uses humans for his tests and kill some of them in the process, would you still want to use the medicine he invents? Some would, some really won't.

Another thing... P&G is KNOWN for cutting costs. Right now Natura sources all their ingredients from the US or Canada. In the process of cutting their costs, P&G will most definitely start sourcing from, oh, I dunno, somewhere like CHINA? I don't trust anything that comes from China. Period.

So while the ingredients list may still look the same, you don't know just WHERE those ingredients are coming from.


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

just so u know. every diabetic, cancer, aids, std drugs, and even common over the counter drugs were done on humans and animals.

countless rats, monkeys had died from toxicity tests. 
human casualties are minimal, but it is still a considerable number. a lot of them suffer from side effects.
look at those drugs advertisements on TV. they warn u that a small population may experience bleeding, blindness etc etc etc and all kinds of side effects. these are side effects that were observed during HUMAN testing.

when one is lying on the hospital bed dying from cancer, he wouldn't really care how many people died in the process to develop this drug, as long as the drug works.
It is also a FDA requirement for new medication to be tested on humans. It is not a choice for pharmaceutical companies to say no because they think it is inhumane. 
human and animal testing are a necessary process to develop a safe product for the general public. It is a "necessary" evil. you can't possibly roll out a product to the mass market without knowing what can possibly happen. Look at the tampon product P&G rolled out 30+ years ago without any real human testing. What happened in the end was that a lot of women had all sorts of infection, and many were critically ill, some which later developed cancer, and lost fertility as a result. What motivated P&G the most to do animal testing is of course the fact that it is a cheaper solution than to risk paying billions in compensation and litigation settlements because of a potentially faulty product. You really don't want to buy a product off the shelves later to know that you are no longer fertile, and possibly have cancer because of using that.

I think it is right and ok to do testing, but I am not supporting with P&G either. The very least they could have done is to provide a acceptable level of living conditions for the animals, and for that they fail.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Are you talking to me?

To reiterate, that's why I said, "kills someone in the process". There are many ways to do testing. Most animal testing is done humanely (or so I hope), but if you look at the videos of the kind of testing that P&G was doing on animals... you would throw up.

Cutting pieces of meat off living animals to test on is NOT humane. At all.

Put it this way... in WW2, the doctor, aptly nicknamed "Angel of Death" did countless disgusting, despicable testing on humans. But along the way, he made a lot of valuable discoveries as well. If he invented a cure for cancer, I may not even use it.

But like I said, to each his own. Not everyone has the same ethical standards. Other people may feel completely comfortable using a cancer cure made from killing and torturing hundreds of innocent people.


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## Enhasa (Feb 6, 2010)

no i wasnt answering to just you  everyone in general.

im not saying P&G isn't at fault. the animals are kept in horrible conditions, and for that they are in the wrong.

It is bad enough to be doing testing (which in my opinion is necessary), so the very least they could do, is to make things better for other aspects, such as a better living condition to make it up. of course, one can never make it up to those animals or humans involved in the testing.

i do think animal and human testing is evil, but it is also necesarry. 10 sacrifices beats 10,000 sacrifices. and in the long run it eventually helps us (not just the USA, but humans in general) understand more to develop better products, and drugs to combat illnesses or to prevent them.

it goes all the way back to the "playing god" dabble.


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

interesting old article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A42435-2002Aug20&notFound=true


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