# Feeling guilty about leaving pup in crate :(



## German Shep mom (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey everybody-
I am a teacher and off for summer and trying to slowly get my 5 month old german shep ready for me to go back to work...then I think about when I am back full time and leaving her in the crate for 8 hrs and feel terrible...I wish I could trust her to be in the kitchen or bathroom but I cant- she is a trouble maker if given opportunity and I'm afraid she would hurt herself- so is it normal and OKAY to leave the dog all day - she has lots of interactive toys and its a full size crate for a large dog...thanks for any reassurance!


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

If she sleeps while you're gone, you should be OK. But, putting toys in the crate to keep her occupied implies that you want her to be awake/active in which case she will not be able to hold it for 8 hours.


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## German Shep mom (Aug 3, 2009)

Oh interesting...never thought of it that way...and she always pees while Im gone, but at night with no toys she does not...maybe I will try that..


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

Sometimes I feel guilty too. But we shouldn't...they just sleep most of the time.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Trent has a very good "Whhyyy are you leaving me innn heerreee??" face when it comes to staying in his crate. It's tough to ignore, but you have to do it...


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## Mom2Furkids (Jul 2, 2009)

I gave my Great Pyr a "Large" teddy bear for her crate. She loved her Woobie, as it was known. After it was safe to leave her out of the crate we often came home and found her in her bed cuddled up with Woobie. I didn't give her any other toys for the crate. She also had a different teddy that I kept in the camper so when she went camping she had a special woobie. This went over fantastic. They give you such the look; I know it tugs at the heart.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

for over 2 years I have been doing this with Atka. She offeres to go into the crate because, before I shut the door, she gets a handful of dog food (I used to feed 1X a day but now feed 1/2c in the AM when I leave and 2c at night for her regular feeding). 

The way I started this was to first crate train her so when I say "Crate" she goes in. Then I taught her "turn around" and "Sit" and then "wait." 

While I am getting her food I tell her "Crate" and she FLIES in there. We have done this so often she turns around on her own and usually sits and waits. I get there, say, "Wait" and put the food down. She keeps waiting while I shut and latch the door of the crate. I then walk away (she is still waiting to eat that dog food) and as I leave the Crate Room and shut the door I give her the "go ahead" command which releases her to eat. 

By the time she is finished, I am gone. 

On weekends when the routine is different she practically pushes me out the door so she can get her morning dog food.. She would have me work 7 days a week and twice on Sundays if it were up to her!

Her set up is the Crate in a room downstairs. There are rooms between her and the upstairs. Two doors are closed (the one to the crate room and then the one at the top of the stairs (so it is sort of like an air Lock on a boat). I exit the house from upstairs to go to the car and go to work. Just letting you know my set up. My dog never sees me leave the house proper (tho the cats do and they are not happy about it!).


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

This sounds crazy but here's what I did with out GSD puppy the first few times we left her alone for the whole day. I took two cell phones, make sure that you have free mobile to mobile on your calling plan or this could get expensive. 

Cell phone #1: put on speaker and left near her crate or long term confinement area
Cell phone #2: took with me to work and put on speaker and muted

This is my long distance baby monitor! So now I was able to at least hear what's going on over there while I'm gone. Turns out that she slept for about 3/4 the time. Make sure that both phones are plugged into wall chargers because you'll essentially be making an 8 hour phone call on a cell phone. 

My next thing is to set up an internet video chat with her so i can actually watch and hear her while I'm at work.


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## moluno (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm starting to feel guilty about having to go back to school next month, and at most, my pup would only be crated for 6 hours two days a week (luckily my schedule is much shorter the rest of the week!). If she were used to being crated for that long during the day, it would be one thing... but she's used to running around all day and going to the dog park and playing fetch, etc. But, you gotta do what you gotta do.


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## German Shep mom (Aug 3, 2009)

woah cool idea with the cell phone! At least gives peace of mind knowing they sleep most of the time...she still pees in her crate but Im hoping she grows out of that, Ive tried everything to stop that but all to no avail...thanks for calming my fears and reassurance from everybody that it is the safest place for my girl


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

German Shep mom said:


> woah cool idea with the cell phone! At least gives peace of mind knowing they sleep most of the time...she still pees in her crate but Im hoping she grows out of that, Ive tried everything to stop that but all to no avail...thanks for calming my fears and reassurance from everybody that it is the safest place for my girl


Is it possible that her crate may be too large for her? Sometimes if there's too much room they pee in it.


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## bimmergirl84 (Jun 23, 2009)

We also made her a long term confinement area for when we are gone for work. We puppy proofed a room and that is where our girl stays during the day. I feel much better about that vs. leaving her in a kennel all day and all night. I just don't feel right about keeping such an intelligent dog in kennel for 16hrs a day. 

And these GSD pups are the best escape artists I've ever seen! She was able to scale a 4ft wall that we put up (table turned on it's side) and tore up the downstairs. So make absolutely sure that she cannot get out of the long term confinement area while you are away.


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## German Shep mom (Aug 3, 2009)

I tried the smaller crate for a while, she could only turn around in it but she still peed in it and layed in it- so my trainer said since she was growing out of it to go ahead and move to the big crate and hopefully she will stop eventually...I am trying to limit her water more now too. She used to drink tons of water so I think it was hard for her to hold and when I put her water up at night between 7-8 she holds it all night (8hrs) in the crate.

I also started her in a spare bedroom when I first got her and she did ok but peed AND pooped all over and made such a mess I had to confine her more. So I am leary of putting her back in there even though it gives more room. She seems to like her crate better now- just feel bad leaving her in there all day cramped...but she can stand up and move around. Its sounding to me like its the safest place for her.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Oh the crate is definately the safest place. She can't get into things or (doG forbid) chew any wires. Ingesting foreign objects is also a concern. 

We put the guilt on ourselves because we think dogs are more like people than they really are. Remember.. wild canids and Felids often eat and then sleep for many hours. If they eat at dawn, the day is made for sleeping thru. 

Of course, when you get home you are going to need plenty of energy to walk and train your dog(s).


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## SheSchipperke (May 5, 2008)

Eight hours is too long for any dog to be in a crate, six at the most with a break to stretch and potty. Put yourself in a crate for eight hours without being able to do anything!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Actually, the above post is based more on human response than on reality. Whenever I bring this subject up there is always one person who is appalled at a dog in a crate for more than 4 hours... but that is the minority. 

Before getting my current dog, I researched heavily to discuss crating a dog from 6:00AM to 4:00 or 4:30PM. I discussed it with vets, dog owners, breeders and kennel owners. Ultimately, the overwhelming majority told me the dog would be fine. One or two people were upset. I went with the majority opinion/kknowledge.

I have had my dog for two years and she is fine. I will add that I walk her a mile plus in the morning b4 work and train and walk her 2-4 miles after work at night. She gets play time and is kept active. By bed time at night, she is LOOKING for sleep. 

When I come home at night, she often does not get up until I open the door to the Crate room. She sometimes yawns at me. I let her out and her first concern is to check out the wild Rabbit situation. Then she wanders around snd EVENTUALLY pees. Some days sooner than others. Dogs who are sleeping do not make as much urine as dogs who are active. She does not appear to be in any discomfort. She does not rush out to immediately pee. She weighs 68 pounds (I have been told larger dogs handle this schedule better than very small dogs). 

I used to leave her with a Kong stuffed with peanut butter in the morning but most days I feed her a handful of dog food and as she is eating I leave and close the door. She sleeps. 

This dog, BTW, has been in this routine for 2 years. She is going to be 3 years old in December. I am telling you this so you know she is a young and active dog (and she sure is when I am there!). 

She is fine being crated on this schedule. 

For every 25 people you ask who have crated dogs, one or two who are home all day or who live 5 minutes from their job or who can afford dog day care every day or who have a family member home to play iwth the dog, will be upset by such a crate schedule. The rest know we all have to go to work and earn a living so we can give our dogs the best things in a dog's life.....

My schedule would not change if she were loose in the house (its that making a living nonsense.. LOL). What would change is her ability to get into things that might be dangerous to her.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

SheSchipperke said:


> Eight hours is too long for any dog to be in a crate, six at the most with a break to stretch and potty. Put yourself in a crate for eight hours without being able to do anything!


Sometimes one doesn't have much of a choice.


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## Davidjames (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm not sure where you live, but have you considered hiring a dog walker? A friend, neighbor, or professional dog walker. See if you can find somebody to come into the house, get the dog out of the crate and take him for a walk.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Elana55 said:


> Actually, the above post is based more on human response than on reality. Whenever I bring this subject up there is always one person who is appalled at a dog in a crate for more than 4 hours... but that is the minority.
> 
> Before getting my current dog, I researched heavily to discuss crating a dog from 6:00AM to 4:00 or 4:30PM. I discussed it with vets, dog owners, breeders and kennel owners. Ultimately, the overwhelming majority told me the dog would be fine. One or two people were upset. I went with the majority opinion/kknowledge.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with the above. And just so you know where I'm coming from, our dog is rarely left on her own - she's with people or at daycare because that's a commitment we made for how to handle her before we got her. And we're lucky enough to have been able to stick to it. 

But that doesn't mean I think it's wrong to crate. In fact, I'm pro-crate and if our situation changed and we weren't able to put her in daycare or work at home 2 days a week, she would be crated. Crating is safer all around and they really do sleep most of the time. I would just be sure to give plenty of exercise, training, & attention before and after crating. If you can make it home mid-day or have someone come over to take the dog for a walk, great. But for an adult dog, it shouldn't be a problem if you can't. Others can advise if it's ok for a 5 month old puppy. I followed the rule of 1 month = 1 hour for our girl and never crated her for more than that until she was around 1 year old (e.g. at 6 months the max I would crate her is 6 hours).


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

I feel guilty about putting my dog in the crate too (I'm a new dog owner), but I know that in the end, it's for her own good. She needs to get used to being alone at SOME times during the day. I'm preparing her from when I get a job/go to college. Even though I'm at home most of the time (I'm a bum), I put her in the crate, and go somewhere else in the house. Sometimes I even put her in there, and just stay in the room with her for a while, so she doesn't associate the crate with something bad. You don't necessarily need to train your dog commands to go into the crate. My dog knows exactly what I want from her when I'm kneeling by the crate with a treat in my hand. She goes in there on her own without me saying a word. I don't know if my dog is an exception, but dogs are very smart, and should be given more credit, because they pick up on things we may not expect. I feel especially guilty when I'm in the room next to the room she's in when she's in the crate, because she can see me and gives me puppy eyes!  If you're around the dog constantly, it'll become dependent on you, and then when you do leave, it won't know what to do or how to feel. Just try to feel better knowing that what you're doing is for the safety and well being of your dog, and also for you, so you know that your dog is safe when you're not at home. As long as you teach your dog to enjoy being in the crate, you and your dog should be fine.


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## GoodDogCarl (Jun 5, 2010)

Ive finally had to succumb to crate training carl. Which, in my opinion, kinda sucks. (probably more for me, than him...) Todays the first day leaving him * and starting officially training unfortunately, though i did try it for a short while when he was a puppy and it never really went 100% *(crying whining until he finally fell asleep, and he never chewed my stuff before, so it was never much of a problem) and we worked on it today before work by seeing if hes OK with it by giving him hotdog bits by going in on his own, and praising the heck out of him for being calm when i close the door and walk away so he cant see me. Seems okay, no crying or panicking, he just lays there. 

He isnt forced. im making it to be as positive an experience as i can make it. I started it because Hes taken it upon himself to start ruining things while i go away. He hasnt had a mess since he was a small pup, so i never worried about that. 
Usually, when i had to work and couldnt bring him, i would put him in the bedroom or bathroom. I would take up just about everything he can chew, or think he would destroy... but it seems inevitable now that i miss something, or i simply cannot remove the item IE: Floor Wall Trim......-____- * Garbage can, toilet paper, plunger/scrubber ANYTHING in the bathroom other than my shower rug which he does miraculously leave alone* I take up everything NOT furniture i can think of. Save for my bookshelves with books, but he hasnt seemed to touch them *Yet*.... He did destroy my carpet in the bedroom sort of. *pulled the strings out* (crappy used one anyway, so i dont mind really... but still. bah. Cant have that!) and has decided its fun to chew the trim by the doors. definitely cant have that!

So it sucks, but im trying my best not to feel too guilty, even though i totally do and wish i didnt have to and he would magically be a great pup that dosnt do those things! Im with him so much though that i think that its a problem for him when i go away, and i want him to feel that when i leave, i will be coming back and he dosnt have to destroy things in his frustration to get OUT and find out where ive gone. Wish me luck. im going to be doing everything in my power to make sure this is a good experience for him. Mainly tiring him out before crate time, and playing with him and walking when i get back. 

He has some water in there too* not full, if he spilled it, i didnt want it soaking his blanket in there totally through*, only because i didnt want him to go six hours without water at all. But like i said, im not worried about mistakes, hes been perfect about it and he went immediately *both ways* before going in. As i always make sure he does when i have to leave. 

If you guys have any tips, elsewise on what ive done so far, feel free to chime in. i know doing it cold turkey basically is probably not as great of an idea, but i couldnt leave him again today worrying what else he was destroying. I hate it because of how guilty i feel, but its got to be done. ( I may try just using bitter apple on the trim too, and trying to leave him again. Maybe that may work.... I do really hate the crate and would like him to have free range if possible...) He never does it when im home. ever. just when i leave. When he does mess stuff up, you can kind of tell its only temporary. He dosnt do it the whole time. or i would come home to more destruction, but i also dont want it BUILDING... more and more each time. Which is why i consider the bitter apple. if he learns that that stuff tastes bad, maybe i CAN leave him on his own without worrying as much? 

Not sure. maybe we will stick with the crate, its only two days of the week that i would be doing this, and the longest time is today, my six hour day. tomorrow is only four hours, and i wont feel so bad about that. 

Let me know what you guys think. Any constructive criticism would be useful in making this work for both me and carl. <3 Thank you. - Alicia


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Carl will survive and unless you are leaving him in an area without air conditioning he will survive fine without water in crate but that's a personal choice. As far as cold turkey crating, in 45 yrs it's the only method I have ever used. Being a professional I had neither time nor inclination to do the break in period slowly program. I see nothing wrong with a gradual break in period, I just never found it necessary. I tell all clients to start crate breaking their pups immediately 1st day home.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Stop feeling guilty. You HAVE to stop the destructive chewing. This is not only a behavior that feeds on itself and grows, but it is also very dangerous for your puppy. He will also have other benefits of being crate trained! Easy to travel with, no stress if he must be confined for illness or surgery!

Stick with it, he will learn to love his crate, guaranteed.

I agree, wvasko. I start crate training puppies very early when I have a litter here. By 5 weeks, they are napping in crates in groups. By 8 weeks, when other puppies go home, pup starts having their own "big dog" crate for night time sleeping and daytime naps. Sometimes there is a little squawking, but it goes away quickly when it doesn't get any results.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

bimmergirl84 said:


> This sounds crazy but here's what I did with out GSD puppy the first few times we left her alone for the whole day. I took two cell phones, make sure that you have free mobile to mobile on your calling plan or this could get expensive.
> 
> Cell phone #1: put on speaker and left near her crate or long term confinement area
> Cell phone #2: took with me to work and put on speaker and muted
> ...


That's pretty cool

We set up a webcam and got some live streaming software online (yawcam, it's free) and then we could access the live stream on our phones wherever we are. Just a webcam doesn't work because we can't view webcams on our phones, but if you are at work and the computer at home has msn, just set it to auto accept requests, then you can turn the webcam on from your computer at work whenever you want.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> Stop feeling guilty. You HAVE to stop the destructive chewing. This is not only a behavior that feeds on itself and grows, but it is also very dangerous for your puppy. He will also have other benefits of being crate trained! Easy to travel with, no stress if he must be confined for illness or surgery!
> 
> Stick with it, he will learn to love his crate, guaranteed.
> 
> I agree, wvasko. I start crate training puppies very early when I have a litter here. By 5 weeks, they are napping in crates in groups. By 8 weeks, when other puppies go home, pup starts having their own "big dog" crate for night time sleeping and daytime naps. Sometimes there is a little squawking, but it goes away quickly when it doesn't get any results.


Yes it irks me when people get the new pup home and don't crate break and then at a year of age or even younger with some breeds they decide to save their homes from total destruction and start crate work. Only problem some breeds by this time are larger stronger and just destroy the crate and then continue with new house designing at their leisure. We then see them in the "got to get rid of dog listings" I wonder how many "cruel to crate owned dogs" end up in never-never/PTS land.

You start as puppy and when they are strong enough to break out they don't want to as it is their personal room/territory in the home. I'm just sayin'... I don't argue with anybody about crating as their dogs are not living in my home.


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## jenjen (Jul 21, 2010)

When we got our first dog, he was 7 months old, house broken & crate trained. But his previous family was stay-at-home, so he was rarely in the crate other than at night. I work full time, and we went cold-turkey to full days (8hrs) in the crate. He spent every weekday in his crate, and every night. He's now nearly 5. We've never had an accident in the crate, and to this day he walks in himself whenever I say 'bed time', and often naps in there of his own accord. He now spends his days sleeping on an arm chair rather than in the crate, but still spends his nights safely tucked in his bed.

Our new puppy cannot yet hold her little 13wk bladder more than 4 hours during the day. She spends her days & her nights in her crate as well, but I do come home at lunch and take her out. So she's 4 hours in, gets a short (20 min) pee break then immediately back in for 4 hours. She does make it through the night just fine though. She too goes into her crate on her own most of the time.

It's actually quite funny to see the two of them scatter when I say 'ok guys... bed time'. I've never put food, water or toys in the crate. My puppy has already ingested a bandana, and will eat anything that she can get ahold of. My other guy simply doesn't enjoy toys if someone isn't playing with him, so I never bothered. They sleep their day away, and are often asleep when I get home.

The dogs daily routine:
* 6am - everyone up, 45 min walk for Bruiser, 45 min training & playtime for Dakota (note: Dakota will join us on walks when she's 16 wks & vaccinated)
* 7am - breakfast, then a nap (usually) or some training or fetch if they're active
* 8am - bed time (everyone into their crates)
* 12pm - home for lunch, 20min pee break
* 4:30pm - everyone up, family is home! 30min walk then fun with the kids! (this is when I make dinner)
* 7pm - dinner, then a nap (usually)
* 11pm - bed time

We do training either right after their walk or (usually) right after dinner... sometimes both, especially with the puppy. On the weekends they are out all day, but I try to keep the walk & food times about the same (I do get up and walk them at 6am on weekends too). I strongly encourage a nap immediately after eating, especially since Dakota is a breed prone to bloat.

In our household, crates keep our dogs safe and out of trouble. They get plenty of exercise, and are active, happy dogs. They get plenty of love and attention. I definitely felt guilty about leaving Bruiser those first few days. But it's what is best for them, and honestly they sleep the days away when I happen to be here anyway.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

You'll feel even more guilty if he chews through a cord or gets a bowel obstruction from eating something around the house or ... 

The point is, the crate is just as much for keeping your puppy safe from your home as for keeping your home safe from your puppy. Most dogs just sleep all day when you're not home anyway. I crated Maisy at night for a long time. I started feeling guilty about it and started leaving the door open at night -- 99% of the time, she chooses to sleep in it anyway. So I leave it up even though she doesn't really NEED it any more. So dogs don't necessarily see the crate as a negative place.


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## aznVampire (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm going back to school in a few days and have settled on leaving my puppy in her crate. She isn't 100% potty trained yet so I was wondering if she will still remember not to pee in the house when we are home?


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## minna (Jul 7, 2011)

Crate training puppies can make a lot of things in your life easier. Once you have decided that crating your dog is the route you’re going to take, the next thing to research home making. Crate selection is a very important part of this. The first thing to keep in mind here is that your crate is an investment. Crate training puppies will teach them to love their crate and treat it as their bedroom. Choosing appropriate crate is essential for both a happy dog as well as effective puppy training.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 4, 2011)

I am a fan of the crate! I work so my dogs are in long hours but I have no other choice. I live in a rural area so finding someone to come in and walk them during the day isn't an option. I know that there are those who will say we shouldn't even have dogs if we force them to spend long hours in a crate but I find that insulting. If the only people who could have dogs were those who were home during the day or who could come home at lunch how many more dogs would be euthanized each year? I love my dogs and they are healthy and well adjusted. Once I get home they are out of the crate until I go to work again. My one dog seems to get very anxious if I try to leave her out of the crate when we go out for short periods so I can only assume that she feels safer in her crate.


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## guy2932 (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm going to go against the trend here but I feel the crate may be making your dogs behaviour worse. When introducing the dog to the crate the idea is to make sure it is a pleasurable event. At first you don't even want to lock the dog in, just allow it in to eat etc. The secret is to never leave the dog in there long enough that it ever becomes anxious. Once it has learned to become anxious in there then the crate will always be an anxiety provoking place. The dog may eventually learn to be quiet, to stop whining and to lie down and go to sleep but this is a form of learned helplessness. The dogs overall anxiety levels will be raised and this may explain the excessive destruction you are experiencing. I have no issue with crate training and use it with most of my dogs but 8hrs during the day followed by 8hrs at night as well presumably is a lot of time in a small space. Boredom and anxiety are a sure fire recipe for destructive behaviour and it may become a down hill spiral. For a long term solution I think you need to get to the root cause of the destructive behaviour rather than looking for ways to contain it.


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## sashak (Jul 25, 2011)

What are your plans for remediating this trouble making or is your feeling that she'll simply grow out of it?

If you feel like she's going to hurt herself than you are doing what's in her own best interest, so you have nothing to feel bad about. 

But since you're feeling bad, that seems to indicate to me that you know that you can do something to fix her behavior or otherwise allow her more freedom.

Personally I would feel more like a jailor than a dog owner if I left my dog in a cage all day. I would sooner give the dog up to someone who won't have to confine it for such a long period. Even a hamster runs around in it cage and has activities. I don't know how small your cage is relative to your dog but if she can't move around that's unnatural and therefore as best as I can reason detrimental to her health, both physically and emotionally, never mind any implications of morality.

When my dog was a curious and less predictable puppy I first of all did everything in my power to "puppy proof" my house (removing live wires, plants, objects on tables and on the ground). I didn't give the dog free reign of the whole house at first, even when I was there - I just puppy proofed a little at a time and slowly expanded his horizons. When it came time to leave, initially I would put him in a square metal holding pen (large enough for him to run around in) on the floor with a mat for him to use the toilet on and later, when I became more confident with his good behavior and his ability to wait to use relieve himself, quarantined him in a particular area of the house by fencing off stair or closing a door.

I haven't had a German Sheppard puppy, so I can't say that I know exactly what your dog is capable of in the way of accidental self harm and mischief but I thought I'd share my experience in case it contains an idea that might have eluded you.

To your success,

Sasha


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## canine nutritionist (Jul 16, 2011)

If the puppy gets the exercise it needs, it will sleep the whole time you are gone. Bones or bully sticks are also a great way to pass the time.


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