# Desperate Help with our NEW 10 Months Old Bichon Frise



## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Hello all;

We recently (almost three weeks now) got a _*purebred *_ male Bichon Frise from a breeder. He is 10 months old. The breeder told us that she had initially intended to keep him as a show dog but she decided to let him go because she felt he is not "*aggressive*" enough! Our initial reaction to that was "perfect" for us!!!

*Let me start with a preface *- we choose a Bichon Frise because we have three kids, 11, 8 and 3 Yr. old (boy, girl, girl) and after doing some research we believed Bichons are very playful, very "family" oriented and that they love kids!

Now back to our Bichon - he is not aggressive at all! He almost NEVER barks - to the point that my wife an I at first thought he was mute!!!  But he proved us wrong after the second time that we crated him for the night! 

I think it is first important for me to lay out what his relationship is with our family: I am his favorite, my wife is second ,my son, with some cation, is the third, and as for my two girls, he is fearful of them, YES, that is right, *FEARFUL*!!.

Clearly we are having several issues:

*First*, and I would say this is *our MAJOR concern *right now, is that he is VERY shy and constantly in state of alertness and caution. His initial reaction is to back off and run away. He does not bark at strangers and runs away all the time. _Worst of all _he is VERY, VERY afraid of my 8 and 3 year old daughters. My 8 Year old is the gentlest soul on earth and yet he runs as if she is about to behead him. If I attempt to hold him to let my daughter to pet him he will fight his way out my arms with all his mighty. If she does in fact get close to him, he will not take any treats from her whatsoever. We have also had an occasion where my wife held him for my daughter to pet him and he has pissed on my wife, our assumption, from fear!!! This is impacting my daughters, specially the 8 year old, as they are feeling rejected!!!

*Second*, he is NOT playful at all! We have yet to find a toy that he likes! He has not, to date, played with any of his toys! As I mentioned, he is so concerned and in a constant state of being worried of his surroundings that he does not play with anyone or anything. The only time I have gotten him to do some fetching is when I am all alone with him and he is sure that no one else is around! 

*Third*, housebreaking attempts have also proven to be fatal thus far. In majority of times, almost 90%, when we take him for a walk he does nothing but almost immediately after we bring him back home he goes!!! We can't understand that! He does love the idea of getting out o fthe house for his walk but lately, after I take him for his walk, as soon as we get close to the house he refuses to walk toward the house. In fact for the past couple of days I have had to pick him up and take him inside!! 

*Fourth*, we have gotten him a few beds and have placed them in several location of the house but he refuses to lay on them. He will sniff it, walk on it but then you will find him sitting next to it as opose to sitting on top of it!! 

So we desperatly need some help and insight here as to what may be going on and what it is we need to do to take care of these issues, particulairly the first issue, before our view for him turns from the joy to one of sorrow and grief!

Thank you in advance!


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## toblerone (Nov 24, 2009)

Well a shy fearful bichon is definitely not what they are supposed to be but I do believe your problems are solvable with some work.

For fearfulness: For a few days try to get your girls to leave him alone. Let him come to them, it will more than likely happen one day out of the blue. When he does, try to have them stand still and let him sniff. He may walk away but will come back. You could also try having them give him _really_ good treats. I mean pure meat, cheese, bacon whatever! Doesn't have to be much, but if all they're offering him are dry treats it may not be enough incentive. You could also try leaving something that smells like him in his crate overnight so he gets used to the smell.

Accidents: Are you crate training when you can't watch him? Get him on a schedule of feeding, he should have to go about 20-30 minutes after he eats or drinks (conservative figure, you can go longer as he gets better). Take him out to do his business and give him 10 minutes. If he doesn't crate him or tie him to you for 15 then try again. He may have been housebroken before, but in a new place he probably hasn't generalized. Also try not to mix walks and peeing/pooing. This way when you need him to go, ie in cold weather or rain, he will go right away not wait for his walk.

Beds: I wouldn't worry about that for now. Once he gets close to you he'll probably want to be on your lap. Getting him to wait/lay on a bed is a training thing.

Toys: Once he's not shy I'm sure he'll start to play. Right now he's just too scared to really think about it.

Really he might just need more time. Not all dogs adjust quickly. If he didn't come from a place with children or wasn't well socialized this could be causing the problems. Since he's older it may take some time to try to get him to the outgoing place you want him to be.


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## cavaliermom (May 28, 2008)

You have some serious issues with your dog, but not being able to see how he interacts with your family makes me cautious about my reply. The dog is obviously not comfortable around your home or your girls. And we have to wonder why this is taking place, since you have had him since he was very young. A Bichon is usually a happy little dog, loves life, etc. My recommendation is that you find a dog behaviorist in your area, who will come out to your home and observe the dog interacting with your family. I have a little Cavalier, who doesn't like small children, but if I hold her, she will let them pet her. I have been training dogs for over 25 years and haven't met your situation - so I'm stumped. You need a professional and right away.


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## cavaliermom (May 28, 2008)

My apology - I thought you had the dog since it was a puppy - but you have only had him 3 weeks - and obviously the dog was not properly socialized and had little experience with the outside world. My advice still stands about the behaviorist and your situation reminds me of my my dog - got her at 2 years old - never been on a leash, in a car, near children, etc. She was afraid of everything. I have had her now for 2 years and she has made remarkable progress - but you do need someone who knows how to handle shy dogs to help you.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

esabet said:


> Hello all;
> 
> We recently (almost three weeks now) got a _*purebred *_ male Bichon Frise from a breeder. He is 10 months old. The breeder told us that she had initially intended to keep him as a show dog but she decided to let him go because she felt he is not "*aggressive*" enough! Our initial reaction to that was "perfect" for us!!!


I am sure the breeder didn't mean "aggressive" as in mean, and bitey. She meant "aggressive" as in willing to show off, not afraid. Kinda like if I were to say "the business man was very aggressive in his quest to be a CEO" obviously I don't mean the business man hits and attacks people.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

How long has he lived with you? For some dogs it takes quite a while to adjust, especially if he's already 10 months old and has never known any place other than the breeder's house. Give him time alone, give him a crate for him to feel safe in and don't push him. Don't try to take him out all the time and cuddle him, force him to play, etc. It may take a few weeks for a new dog to warm up to the family, especially kids. It's important not to force the people on him, especially your daughters and he will approach them on his own time.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Your dog sounds like he is terrified!...Poor baby!
As far as your kids feeling rejected that shouldn't be the issue here...You should let the dog come to them at his comfort & NEVER hold him & force him to let them pet him...The kids will need to be taught to respect him & his space & that he is not a toy for their entertainment....You should have them offer him tasty treats at an arms length & let the dog choose if he comes close enough to take them or not...This may take some time but, if you don't let him warm up on his terms, you are going to end up with a dog you can't keep with children...Chances are he never interacted with children at the breeders or had bad interactions with them.
This is crucial as, what you described, is the makings of fear bites waiting to happen...How will your kids feel then?
I wouldn't worry at all about him not wanting to use his bed right now or play with toys...He is obviously freaked out & whether he uses a bed or not or is playful should be the LEAST of your worries!
Crate train for potty training.
Good luck.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

This is a tough situation in the sense that he is not what you expected. But this unfortunately is not common. All dogs, even within a breed have different characteristics and personalities. It really sounds like the breeder did not do enough early socialization with your boy. This puts you at a disadvantage but it is not necessarily a lost cause. 

I am going to go one step further than the others regarding the kids treating the dog. I don't think that trying to get a dog to approach for a treat is a good idea..even if the treat is a high value treat the dog still may feel "forced" into going to get it and this is not good for him at all. I understand your kids feeling rejected, of course they are disappointed, but it is important for the safety and well being of both the kids and the dog to work on this slowly and let them "get to know" each other on the dog's terms. 

What this means is having the kids DROP high value treats near the dog as they walk by or as they are sitting watching tv or whatever. All training and handling should be done by the parents in the beginning until you have some consistent behaviours going and then you can ask the older kids to "help" by asking for and rewarding the sits etc, again without infringing on the dog's "threshold space". Once he starts to trust the kids more you can build on this. 

Dealing with fear takes time and patience, but I think you may find that fearful dogs DO bond well after some good classical conditioning. 

If you don't think you can do this (hopefully with the help of a good behaviourist) then you may want to think about returning the dog to the breeder, for his good and for yours. If you and your family are up for it it can be a worthwhile endeavor. 

Check out www.fearfuldogs.com for some great advice and information on desensitization and training methods etc.

You also need to give him more time to settle in, three weeks is not long and he is still likely not showing all of his personality yet (for good or bad) so make no assumptions and go slowly.

HIs crate and housetraining go hand in hand, but if he's never been trained to go outside it will be a challenge. Speak to the breeder about what methods she uses for her dogs...potty pads? Litter training? If he's never had the opportunity to go on grass or cement he will not KNOW to do it. He needs to relearn a lot of stuff if she didn't do these things and please remember that this is not his fault and sounds like these behaviours may very likely be due to mistakes the breeder has made during his prime socialization periods. 

Good luck.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Dropping the treats...EXCELLENT advise Cracker!...I wouldn't have thought of that but it makes perfect sense as a prelude for the kids being able to hand the dog a treat!


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Thank you all for your posts and sorry to get back to you all so late in the game! I had read your posts immediately but never had time to reply, the Tax season is killing me.

Let me first say something about the breeder. Though we don't really know her personally, she seems to be a true professional with a strong passion for what she is doing. Here is the breeder's website: *Gemstone Bichone Frises*. We did not feel that she is breeding pups "as a business", if you know what I mean. We also found out that *Jeter*, our pup, has a very strong family line of Champs. In fact, as I mention before, she had originally chosen him to show but then decided to show his sister instead and she did in fact won the Westminster show just a few weeks ago!

The breeder had about 6 or 7 Bichons which we assumed they are all hers. The breeder had trained all her dogs to go on the dogie pads. There was also a dogie door to the outside next to the pads. So the dogs would either go on the pad or would run outside! So if I understand it correctly, Jeter was not really housebroken to that sense of the word. 

She instructed us to do the following. Give him a small area (we have given him half of our mud room - no worries, its always clean  ). The area we have given him is about 15 feet long by 3.5 feet wide. Inside this area we have placed his crate and a bed. The area is gated off from the rest of the house but he can observe us at times when we pass by so he does not feel trapped. 

On most occasions we do allow him to come out of his area and inside the house but with th understanding that we can keep an eye on him and try to make sure he is right next to us. This way we can ensure he does not "make" without us knowing. But I must admit we have not been 100% successfully and we have had one too many accidents.  But if we do put him in his area and close the gate, he is not very happy and tries very hard to get out and inside the house!! 

The breeder next instructed us to ONLY crate him at nights for sleeping. She told us that we should NOT use the crate to housebreak him since he is no longer a pup! If we do that then he may see the crate as punishment as appose to "safe heaven". By the way, as is, he still does not like to be crated even for the night and tries very hard to run away and get out! For housebreaking, next, she instructed us to take him out every so often, like every two hours and every time he "makes" to treat him with a small piece of chicken. She did warn us to NEVER give him the chicken for ANY other purpose!

At first it was difficult but as time is passing by, he jumps on the idea to go outside and he has somewhat learned, at least when he walks with me or my wife, that every time he makes he will get the chicken and he does in fact look for it. But we still have had times where he will "go" in the house!! So question is how do we train him to understand "OUTSIDE ONLY"!!

As for my daughters, we have already told the girls to let him be and even try to ignore him. My 8 year old understands, _but not happy_, and my 3 year old says "why???"  She is going to make it tough!

We are seriously considering hiring a dog behaviorist but are stumbling on how to locate one who is "reputable". Any help on that would be greatly appreciated!

Best regards and look forward to your posts!!


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## Cinch (Mar 23, 2010)

Well, I see you problem. It's really simple.

Your dog is fearful because you named him after a Yankee. If you named him after a Red Sox, then he would be much more happy.  Maybe Jacoby, Nomar or something like that. You know something that one would be proud of hearing. (I'm kidding of course... or am I?) 

In all seriousness, I think Cracker gave you some really good advice in terms working with the dog and kids. Another idea I would do is make sure the kids feed him. They don't have to get close, but make sure the pup sees the kids are the one puttung the food down. Also, have the kids mix the food with their hands (even if it's just dry food). That way, when the dog is eating, he smells the kids, and associates that smell with his needs and becomes more familiar with them. This worked really well for my sister when she got a new pup that wasn't all to anxious to be petted by them.

Just remember, it's a slow process, but you'll get there... as soon as you change it's name.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Okay, sounds like your breeder has it kind of on the ball..good job. 

BUT. 
For housetraining purposes (as he is NOT housetrained..ie only goes outside) you do need to back up..age has nothing to do with this right now. Anyone who has taken an older rescue in that is not housetrained is told to go back to 'puppy housebreaking" and gradually build up. Keep a chart as to when he has accidents to see if there is a pattern/timing issue on your part. You may just be waiting a bit too long at certain times of the day. He is still a puppy btw and smaller breeds often take longer to fully housetrain AND to learn to hold their bladders longer. Do you still provide a pad for him? If not you have to be more frequent on his outside trips...learning the difference between outside and inside takes time and repetition. Do you scold or punish him for any accidents? This can also make it harder to train. 

The mudroom space is a good idea if you don't want to crate him (but be prepared if it doesn't work, crating him more frequently may be necessary..more on that later). but fifteen feet long is too much. Not small enough. What you need is a space that is big enough for his crate, his dishes and about two or three feet extra. Period. You CAN put a puppy pad down there if it helps and you know you cannot make schedule at that time. By limiting the space he will be more hesitant to "make" near his sleeping and eating quarters. This is why crates are so handy for this. 

Okay..onto crates. Crates can still be a safe haven even if used frequently, in fact, the logic is that he will feel SAFER confined than not. In order to do this you must not use the crate for punishment purposes and it must be a place of "good things'. Teaching him to crate up using yummy rewards and making sure he always has something to chew/work on when he's in there is half the battle. Stuffed kongs are great, bully sticks can be good (supervised) etc. The more you make his crate a great place the easier the overnights will be too right now all you are teaching him is that when he is in the crate you all shut off the lights and leave, inadvertent teaching of course, but that is how dogs learn things...that being said, being he's only been with you three weeks, I would have put the crate in the bedroom with me in the beginning rather than far away from me in the house..but that's just me..lol.

If you get him to be really comfortable in his crate (google Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" DVD for a great way to do this)...eventually his crate can go "on the move" in the house, allowing him to be around the kids more but feel SAFE about it and also be more comfortable when he goes to the groomer or has to stay at the vet and also makes car trips safer and less stressful. 

All just tweaks to what you are already doing.

Good luck.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cinch said:


> Well, I see you problem. It's really simple.
> 
> Your dog is fearful because you named him after a Yankee. If you named him after a Red Sox, then he would be much more happy.  Maybe Jacoby, Nomar or something like that. You know something that one would be proud of hearing. (I'm kidding of course... or am I?)
> 
> ...


LOL!!!

So you know I am originaly from Boston and more a Red Sox fan than anything else. But I do not have anything gainst the Yankees either, just not a fan!! 

The truth is we did not pick the name. The breeder was a Yankee fan and she had picked the name and we decided to keep it for now as we had enough going on and name changing can maybe wait!!

Thanks for the advice though! The interesting thing is that before I had even posted this thread, I had asked my girls to put the food for him while he is still in his "area", so he sees it too. But now I will also ask her to move the food around with her hand, THANKS!


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Oh I almost forgot...regarding your first posts:
Play will happen when he feels comfortable and safe..that may take a while.

The bed thing is not unusual, especially if he hasn't had one before or he is still unsure of this surroundings. Work on the housetraining and settling in and then come back and we can discuss how to teach him to "go to bed" on cue.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Okay, sounds like your breeder has it kind of on the ball..good job.
> 
> BUT.
> For housetraining purposes (as he is NOT housetrained..ie only goes outside) you do need to back up..age has nothing to do with this right now. Anyone who has taken an older rescue in that is not housetrained is told to go back to 'puppy housebreaking" and gradually build up. Keep a chart as to when he has accidents to see if there is a pattern/timing issue on your part. You may just be waiting a bit too long at certain times of the day. He is still a puppy btw and smaller breeds often take longer to fully housetrain AND to learn to hold their bladders longer. Do you still provide a pad for him? If not you have to be more frequent on his outside trips...learning the difference between outside and inside takes time and repetition. Do you scold or punish him for any accidents? This can also make it harder to train.


Well at the very beginning we were placing the pads but then the Vet told us that we are confusing him. So about 1.5 weeks ago we stopped putting the pads! 

As for punishing, we never punished him when he did NOT make it in front of us (though one time my wife did get mad and after showing him what he has done, did in fact yell and lock him up in his area). Two or three times we did yell and lock him up when he made in front of us but we will now stop doing that as well.



> ...........
> 
> Okay..onto crates. Crates can still be a safe haven even if used frequently, in fact, the logic is that he will feel SAFER confined than not. In order to do this you must not use the crate for punishment purposes and it must be a place of "good things'. Teaching him to crate up using yummy rewards and making sure he always has something to chew/work on when he's in there is half the battle. Stuffed kongs are great, bully sticks can be good (supervised) etc. The more you make his crate a great place the easier the overnights will be too right now all you are teaching him is that when he is in the crate you all shut off the lights and leave, inadvertent teaching of course, but that is how dogs learn things...that being said, being he's only been with you three weeks, I would have put the crate in the bedroom with me in the beginning rather than far away from me in the house..but that's just me..lol.


We have tried putting things in his crate but he does not care for them. In fact, as I mentioned in my thread, he does not lke any of his toys. The only thing I have found out he REALLY likes is tree branches. In fact the only thing that gets him excited and gets him to play fetch is when i use a tree branch but I was told taht is a "BAD" idea! *By the way, what is a "stuffed kong"?*

He simply just wants to get out of the crate!! 



> If you get him to be really comfortable in his crate (google Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" DVD for a great way to do this)...eventually his crate can go "on the move" in the house, allowing him to be around the kids more but feel SAFE about it and also be more comfortable when he goes to the groomer or has to stay at the vet and also makes car trips safer and less stressful.
> 
> All just tweaks to what you are already doing.
> 
> Good luck.


I will try to locate the DVD!! Sounds great. Thanks.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

esabet said:


> Well at the very beginning we were placing the pads but then the Vet told us that we are confusing him. So about 1.5 weeks ago we stopped putting the pads!


Your vet is right BUT it may be MORE confusing for him as he had it before and now does not..if that makes any sense. I personally do not like starting out with pee pads for this very issue...but think about all the changes that have gone on for this guy in the last month. Gone from the home he knew, from his "dog pack", from his previous routine AND he's a nervous dog. The less you change in the beginning the calmer the dog. It needs to be a process. 



> As for punishing, we never punished him when he did NOT make it in front of us (though one time my wife did get mad and after showing him what he has done, did in fact yell and lock him up in his area). Two or three times we did yell and lock him up when he made in front of us but we will now stop doing that as well.


Good. Punishing for accidents only creates a dog that puts YOU plus urine/stool as "BAD"..not the act itself. Which in turn CAN teach the dog to hide when he goes OR to not want to make when you are there at all, which makes training very difficult and rewarding when he DOES go in the right place virtually impossible. 




> We have tried putting things in his crate but he does not care for them. In fact, as I mentioned in my thread, he does not lke any of his toys. The only thing I have found out he REALLY likes is tree branches. In fact the only thing that gets him excited and gets him to play fetch is when i use a tree branch but I was told taht is a "BAD" idea! *By the way, what is a "stuffed kong"?*


Yeah, sticks can cause issues if they EAT them. but if he just fetches with it and chews and spits it out I would allow him to have them SUPERVISED. 

Toys in the crate (especially a dog that is not comfortable enough to play) is not going to work...BUT a FOOD TOY is a different story. KOngs are great because they are stuffable..by stuffable I mean put some kibble in it, a few pieces of yummy treat and some peanut butter and then freeze it. Keep a few on hand in the freezer and put one in the crate with him for a couple of minutes at first (door open) and see if he'll lick and work at it to get the food out. This is classical conditioning (good things come when I'm in my crate! YUMM)..if you do get the DVD (which I highly recommend) you will be teaching him to get in and out of the crate on cue, lie calmly in the crate on cue and just basically make the crate a rewarding place to be, with our without you. 

You may also think about feeding him in his crate for meals as well to see how that goes. It's pavlov's dog all over again....crate=food. Food is a prime motivator for most dogs. Use it to your advantage.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

I just tried a quick search and I can't locate that DVD!! Anyone knows where I could get one or does anyone have a used copy they want to sell?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

We should just phone each other..lol. You can tell I have a day off..too much computer time for me!

Check out www.dogwise.com One of the best places for dvds, training supplies and books etc out there.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Your vet is right BUT it may be MORE confusing for him as he had it before and now does not..if that makes any sense. I personally do not like starting out with pee pads for this very issue...but think about all the changes that have gone on for this guy in the last month. Gone from the home he knew, from his "dog pack", from his previous routine AND he's a nervous dog. The less you change in the beginning the calmer the dog. It needs to be a process.


So we should strat putting the pads down? But even with the pads down his aim was not 100%!! 



> ........if he just fetches with it and chews and spits it out I would allow him....


Well he fetches a few times but then he runs away and tries to chew and eat it too!!



> .................
> 
> Kongs are great because they are stuffable..by stuffable I mean put some kibble in it, a few pieces of yummy treat and some peanut butter and then freeze it. Keep a few on hand in the freezer and put one in the crate with him for a couple of minutes at first (door open) and see if he'll lick and work at it to get the food out. This is classical conditioning (good things come when I'm in my crate! YUMM)...........


Well the breeder made sure to tell us exactly wha and how much to feed him. Water is available ALL THE TIME! She instructed us to only feed him once a day, about 3/4 cup, and no more. She also said NO TREATS except maybe some Cheerios!! So Cheerios is the ONLY thing we have been using for treat and not much, just here and there, as a reward for when he listens to my commands or for my kids. 



> You may also think about feeding him in his crate for meals as well to see how that goes. It's pavlov's dog all over again....crate=food. Food is a prime motivator for most dogs. Use it to your advantage.


In fact that is exactly what we have been doing. When I decided that my daughter should be the only one to feed him, I told her to put it inside his crate. She puts the food on the edge though so he only has to stick his head inside the crate, not his entire body! Should we place it deeper inside?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

esabet said:


> So we should strat putting the pads down? But even with the pads down his aim was not 100%!!


Not 100 percent like he drips off the edge or that he pees in a totally different area? If he's TRYING to get the pad, I would put the pad back out..if he's not then continue what you were doing and just more frequent with potty trips.



> Well he fetches a few times but then he runs away and tries to chew and eat it too!!


Figure out how many times he will bring it back to you and then end the game before he gets a chance to go chew. This keeps the game "interesting" and active with YOU involved. Good for relationship building.



> Well the breeder made sure to tell us exactly wha and how much to feed him. Water is available ALL THE TIME! She instructed us to only feed him once a day, about 3/4 cup, and no more. She also said NO TREATS except maybe some Cheerios!! So Cheerios is the ONLY thing we have been using for treat and not much, just here and there, as a reward for when he listens to my commands or for my kids.


Cheerios can be awesome treats IF THE DOG LIKES THEM. From a training point of view and getting over his fear you have to understand that food is the language of learning in many cases...restricting treats (good healthy treats btw) is not the way for a dog to learn to like his home, learn his cues or get over his fears. 

Your breeder is worried about overfeeding (which is good) as many people especially with the "cute" dogs give too much too soon and for no reason. But using food rewards for training sessions and for classical conditioning is very important. The trick is to either use his kibble for the Easy stuff by putting his 3/4 cup in a jar each day, taking a couple of for mini training sessions and then giving the rest at meal time or to reduce his daily ration by the amount of training calories you give him from the other rewards. This way he can be rewarded for learning but it doesn't make him into bubba bichon. Treats are NOT BAD if used responsibly and ALL training goes better, faster and is more FUN if there are rewards involved. Dogs need to be paid for their work, just like we do. 




> In fact that is exactly what we have been doing. When I decided that my daughter should be the only one to feed him, I told her to put it inside his crate. She puts the food on the edge though so he only has to stick his head inside the crate, not his entire body! Should we place it deeper inside?


Since Jeter is unsure of the girl..I would have him on a leash away from the crate while he watches your daughter put the food in and YES further back so that he has to go IN is better. Don't close the crate, just make sure that he has to enter, not just hang over the edge to eat. Eventually you will be able to get him to crate up and THEN put the food in as a reward for going in..you will see how to do that when you get the DVD.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cracker said:


> We should just phone each other..lol. You can tell I have a day off..too much computer time for me!


Sounds great to me, what's you number? 



> Check out www.dogwise.com One of the best places for dvds, training supplies and books etc out there.


I just placed the order, thanks for sharing.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

You need treats and you need lots of them. Cut back on the kibble, if you're concerned about having a fat dog. And maybe consider something other than cereal. For some dogs, Cheerios will work, but when we talk about "high value" treats, we're talking about roasted chicken, warm hot dogs, dried liver, or cheese cubes, all of which smell way better to a dog than cereal!


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

FilleBelle said:


> You need treats and you need lots of them. Cut back on the kibble, if you're concerned about having a fat dog. And maybe consider something other than cereal. For some dogs, Cheerios will work, but when we talk about "high value" treats, we're talking about roasted chicken, warm hot dogs, dried liver, or cheese cubes, all of which smell way better to a dog than cereal!


He does take the Cheerios but I get the feeling he is not too crazy about them! There are occasions he sniffs it and then turns away!

I think the breeder was very concerned about having a "fat dog"! So now I am wondering what to put inside the Kong, but first I need to buy the kong! 

Thanks for the advice!


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## Cinch (Mar 23, 2010)

esabet said:


> So now I am wondering what to put inside the Kong, but first I need to buy the kong!


Wherever you get the Kong, they should have Kong stuffing there as well. It comes either as dry treats (my dogs don't much care for those) or it comes in a can (thing cool-whip/cheese type can) My dogs LOVE that stuff. I know there are at least three flavors, liver, peanut butter and something else. Or, you could just put a couple dallops of regular peanut butter in there too.

My elkhound will spend 15 minutes or more, making sure she gets every dab of peanut butter out of her kong.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

One of my wife's friends has introduced us to a dog trainer. His name is Steve DiTullio .and this is his website: http://forpawzdogtraining.com/index.html

He came to our house today. After a few minutes of being here his focus became Jeter's uneasiness around the kids and insecurity! He felt that Jeter needs lots of work with socialization and he thought it could take some time for him to warm-up to the kids. He also mentioned that perhaps the breeder decided not to take him to the show because of this particular trait!!

He gave us a few exercises to do with the kids. In one exercise he asked me (since Jeter is most comfortable with me) to put Jeter on a leash, sit on the floor and have Jeter sit in between my legs. Then he asked the kids, one by one first, to approach him slowly. If Jeter would try to get away, the trainer told me to pull him back and have him sit in between my legs once again, comfort him and then ask the kids to approach again and try to pet him and even give him treats! 

There were times that Jeter would try to run away and I did "drag" him back! Other times, though he would allow them to pet him, he was for sure not 100% comfortable. 

The trainer then told us to do this few times a day and keep practicing it as it is going to take somettime.

What do you guys think?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

esabet said:


> One of my wife's friends has introduced us to a dog trainer. His name is Steve DiTullio .and this is his website: http://forpawzdogtraining.com/index.html
> 
> He came to our house today. After a few minutes of being here his focus became Jeter's uneasiness around the kids and insecurity! He felt that Jeter needs lots of work with socialization and he thought it could take some time for him to warm-up to the kids. He also mentioned that perhaps the breeder decided not to take him to the show because of this particular trait!!
> 
> ...


I think from my previous posts about not forcing treats and dropping them you can guess what I think of this method. This doesn't mean it CAN'T work but I believe it is risky. It is flooding and forcing the dog to interact when he doesn't feel safe. IMO this is an unsafe method as it puts the dog in a position where he cannot remove himself and also teaches the kids that they don't have to respect his boundaries. This puts everyone at risk and who gets blamed if the dog feels the need to aggress because he's essentially cornered? The dog does. When he had no control over anything.

I am happy the trainer recognized it is a fear issue, that is a good thing and atleast he's not into dominance mumbo jumbo. If you are comfortable with him and with his methods then continue with him.


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## Cinch (Mar 23, 2010)

esabet said:


> One of my wife's friends has introduced us to a dog trainer. His name is Steve DiTullio .and this is his website: http://forpawzdogtraining.com/index.html
> 
> He came to our house today. After a few minutes of being here his focus became Jeter's uneasiness around the kids and insecurity! He felt that Jeter needs lots of work with socialization and he thought it could take some time for him to warm-up to the kids. He also mentioned that perhaps the breeder decided not to take him to the show because of this particular trait!!
> 
> ...


I have a couple red flags here, and these are strictly my opinion.

1 - I am not a big fan of dragging a dog to a place where it doesn't want to be. Think of it this way, when the dog tries to get away you drag him back and the kids pet him. This just reinforces his distrust of the kids.

2 - He doesn't have any real credentials. He never went to school, or studied anywhere. By reading that website it sounds like all he did was hang around another trainer (who's credentials are unknown) then decided "Hey, I want to do this." and just started.

He may be a good guy, I have no idea but those two things would make me ask a whole lot of questions about him. Just my opinion of course.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cinch said:


> I have a couple red flags here, and these are strictly my opinion.
> 
> 1 - I am not a big fan of dragging a dog to a place where it doesn't want to be. Think of it this way, when the dog tries to get away you drag him back and the kids pet him. This just reinforces his distrust of the kids.
> 
> ...


Very good and valid points! Thanks

I think I will look for someone else but that is where my problem is, I have no idea what to look for or believe in! ALL recommendations will be more than welcomed!

Thanks again.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

By the way, something I forgot to mention and wanted to also get your opinion on.

This morning we were sitting in the Den with Jeter. (This is before the trainer had come to our house.) After my daughter woke up and walked into the Den, Jeter started barking at her nonstop. In the past Jeter would just jump and run away but that is not what he did this time. He did somewhat back off at first, but then started barking!

Jeter hardly ever barks. In fact I have never even seen him bark at strangers. So to see him bark at my daughter was VERY STRANGE to say the least!

So what do you guys’ think is going on there?

_What do you recommend my daughter should do if he repeats this behavior?_


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

So it's been about a month since he's moved in..he may be barking now that he's getting more comfortable in showing his feelings (honeymoon period may be over) and what this means is that some of his behaviours may increase in frequency and some may fade away.
Barking is a distancing behaviour and as long as he is not running up TO her and barking at her I would simply have her stand there, not looking at him, until he stops and then calmly move on. The reason for this is twofold:
It teaches him that the barking doesn't work to increase distance (thus not reinforcing the behaviour)
It teaches him that your daughter will not escalate the situation (and teaches her how to remain calm as well).

As for trainers/behaviourists:
http://www.iaabc.org/suchen/display_consultant.php

This is the page for NY state. 
Look for someone who uses positive reinforcement and science based training, but they are all certified through the Intl. Assoc. Animal Behavior Consultants.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cracker said:


> So it's been about a month since he's moved in..he may be barking now that he's getting more comfortable in showing his feelings (honeymoon period may be over) and what this means is that some of his behaviours may increase in frequency and some may fade away.
> Barking is a distancing behaviour and as long as he is not running up TO her and barking at her I would simply have her stand there, not looking at him, until he stops and then calmly move on. The reason for this is twofold:
> It teaches him that the barking doesn't work to increase distance (thus not reinforcing the behaviour)
> It teaches him that your daughter will not escalate the situation (and teaches her how to remain calm as well).
> ...


Thank you Cracker!!

I forgot to mention one more thing and am not sure if it means anything, Jeter continued barking at my daughter till my wife sat next to my daughter. That made him stop!!

Thanks for the link! I'll keep you posted.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cracker said:


> ............
> 
> As for trainers/behaviorists:
> http://www.iaabc.org/suchen/display_consultant.php
> ...


I just did a search and had a question. What is the difference between a *Certified *Consultant and an *Associate *Consultant.

The search result returned couple of consultants, one is a Certified Consultant while the other, whom happens to be closer to me, is an Associate Consultant!


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Hmm. I think that it's two different levels of education/experience. Though just being an associate consultant would still require a huge amount of experience etc. It's worth asking the consultant when you speak to them.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

I just made a quick observation and am not sure if it is significant.

My son and my 8 yr. old daughter had their friends over today. Both came at the same time. 

When my son's frieds came over Jeter approached them with caution and sniffed them, but did not let them to pet him.

But when my daughter's friend came (whom has long hair like my daughter and almost same physique) he barked at her and would not get close to her!!

It almost looks like he has something against girls!!!

At the same time let me add this, the two times we went to the breeder's house Jeter showed absolutly no reaction whatsoever to my daughters! In fact he woud even take treats from them.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Though most dogs more frequently have issues with young boys, some do with girls. It has a lot to do with socialization in their first 4 months of life, whether they had been exposed at all or whether the exposure had been unpleasant. 
At least now you have likely identified a trigger for Jeter. This is half the battle.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

I have another *important *question on the side!

Jeter has NOT been neutered yet and we must do that. I have not seen him do any "marking" behavior yet and I was told he should be neutered before he learns that!

But given with all that is going on, I am not sure when would be a good time? _Any recommendations?_


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Hello again everyone.

I have some updates that thought I should share with you all:


Jeter is doing better with my son! Still cautious but warms up to him much faster and my wife says when I am not around Jeter actually follows his commands. 
As for my Daughters, Jeter is getting maybe an inch or two closer than before but yesterday, once again, he started barking at my older daughter.
Jeter has become more playful now! In fact, for the first time, I found him playing by himself!  Also, it is the strangest thing for me that he does not find his toys interesting! But he likes things like empty water bottles (actually he had ton of fun with that yesterday) tree branches, and socks, so far!
He is also now beginning to sleep and lie down on his beds more and more often!
We are signing him up for Puppy Kindergarten as the breeder thinks it should help him to socialize and become more secure. The trainer that is holding the Puppy classes, after having heard what is going on, recommended that I buy the Happy Kids, Happy Dogs book and reading it!
Jeter is scheduled to be neutered tomorrow (Thursday) 
As for his housebreaking, we have been on an accident free streak BUT this morning he had soiled his "crate"!!!  I did not say or punish him in any way but am wondering why he would have done that given that I walked him the night before, right before bed, and he did make!!!

Thanks for participating and helping out!


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

esabet said:


> Hello again everyone.
> 
> I have some updates that thought I should share with you all:
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are on the right path to having a happy & confident dog!...Good for you!


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

I think that accidents just happen sometimes. My dog had ONE accident in his crate as well. His schedule was off because of the holiday--we were everywhere!

It sounds like your dog is warming up to your family. It's great to hear that!

I don't know how much it would help in this situation, but you might have your daughter's sleep with an old blanket that you can place in the pen with the dog as well. It might help him warm to their scents.

I had a dog who NEVER played with toys...EVER! Maybe take him to the store and let him pick his own toy out. Scrappy LOVED going to the store and he picked out a squeaky toy that he even tries to take outside when he has to pee! LOL


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

I spoke with the Dog Behaviorist *Parvene Farhoody *today. From what I understand she is very good and respected. Though she had said before she does not have time for us, after she heard about the issues, in particular that Jeter is insecure, not playful and fearful of my daughters, she was kind enough to call me on the phone and share her professional opinion.

The very first recommendation that she had was NOT TO NEUTER him - at least not for the next three months. She thought, given his status, its going to make things worst and perhaps the testosterone is what he needs to get over his fears. And by neutering him he may become even more fearful!!

She also said that it is very possible that Jeter may siomple not have the temperament for our household and we should strongly consider taking him back to the breeder!!  That perhaps Jeter is more suited for an elderly couple or a signle individual! 

She felt that if after three weeks the dog is still afraid of my daughters and refuses to even take treats from them then, even though he may eventually warm up to them, he may turn out to be a dog that when my kids friends come over, he would have to be lucked up!! And, furthermore, it may also turn out that he will never be the playful dog we are expecting! And that kind of disappointment can hurt him and the kids!!

To say the least I was very upset to hear the recommendation and it is truly tearing me apart to even consider such notion. I had brushed on the idea before in the house and my son was going to have a fit though my 8 year old daughter said she woudl have to think about it and my 3 year old said yes! My wife was against it!

To summarize, I am now VERY VERY confused!!!


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

Sometimes a dog is not a good fit. It happens. It doesn't make it easy on anyone. BUT, for the happiness of your family and the dog, he may need to go back. 

Thinking of you while your family makes the best decision for everyone.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

I would not take the word of a behaviorist that never met my dog or family as a final word by any means!


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

GypsyJazmine said:


> I would not take the word of a behaviorist that never met my dog or family as a final word by any means!


I agree with this.

An assessment in person is important. She couldn't have referred you to another behaviourist that she recommends?

Three weeks is NOT a long time. I do agree that waiting to neuter is probably a good idea, simply because the trauma of a surgery may make him feel even less secure when he is still finding his footing.

It IS very possible that he is not the right dog for the family, this is always a possibility for any pet taken in to a new home.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Its easier said than done! To take Jeter back is not an easy notion, whatsoever! Last night, once again, I mentioned it to my 8 year old daughter and she did not like it! So even though the dog is fearful of her, does not play with her, does not take treats from her, she still does not like the idea of returning him!! I asked her if she would cry if we take him back and she said "probably"! 

So, financial aside - and there is a lot there as you may all know, we, as a family, have invested tremendous amount of emotions! I know its only 3.5 weeks but we have all become very much attached!

This morning, while my daughters were sleep, my wife took Jeter to my daughters bedroom. Jeter was ok till he sniffed my daughters hand and then he ran out of the room as fast as he could! So it makes me wonder if this is ever going to be fixed? The scent alone frightened him! Does that make sense? 

When we brought a dog, we were very focused to bring a "family dog" and Bichons appeared to fit that profile perfectly. In know that is a generalization and that every dog has his or her own personality, but that is all we had to go with! My brother had a dog and it was a min-pin and talk about a non-social and "one man dog"! We always ridiculed him for bringing a dog like that!! That is to say, I always had a fear of that!


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

*In the interim we need help with one more thing:*

We put Jeter in his crate somewhere between 10:30 to 11:30 PM! Then Jeter wakes up around 4:30 to 5:00 AM and starts making lots of noise, scrapping the crate, and barking to get out! He may stop after 30 minutes of being ignored but then will start all over at about 6:00 am. What is the best way to train him so that he waits and does not bark till we get him out (some time between 6:30 to 7:00 am)?


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

I can't remember how old you said Jeter is, but if he is not fully housebroken and is still quite young, I would recommend that you get up with him in the middle of the night to take him out. If he stops fussing to be let out after 30 minutes, but then starts in again an hour or so later, it may not be a matter of wanting to play, but a matter of needing to go potty. Even if he holds it during that duration, it is possible for dogs to be uncomfortable too, and he may be expressing this discomfort.

My dog is 2.5 years old and she occasionally will wake me in the middle of the night to go out. Sometimes she wants to potty, sometimes she went to sleep too early and has renewed energy and wants to go outside to check things out. It's annoying sometimes, especially when I have to get up early for work the next morning and my sleep was interrupted, but it's like having a baby ... you roll with the punches. She woke me up this morning at 3:30am, in fact. I let her out and all she wanted to do was sit on the patio and look around. Not fun! But she will pester me to no end if I don't get up and let her out for a few minutes. The only way I can get her to stop is to sternly order her to lay down and stop, and since I don't know if she really wants to go potty or not, I don't want to speak sternly to her. She gets her feelings hurt easily. lol


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## MissyP (Feb 21, 2010)

esabet said:


> Its easier said than done! To take Jeter back is not an easy notion, whatsoever! Last night, once again, I mentioned it to my 8 year old daughter and she did not like it! So even though the dog is fearful of her, does not play with her, does not take treats from her, she still does not like the idea of returning him!! I asked her if she would cry if we take him back and she said "probably"!


Sometimes you have to think with your head and not your heart.. I realize how VERY easy it is to get attached to a puppy but it really doesn't sound like that puppy is a good fit for your FAMILY. It may suit you just fine, but from the way you describe its behavior toward your children, I'd honestly be afraid that the puppy would turn on them at some point, especially if the puppy is attached to you-- it may want to "protect" you from the kids or may try to become dominant over the kids in your 'pack'. The puppy's fear of the kids may never change, do you really want to take the chance of one of your children or your children's friends getting bitten? Then you not only risk the dog getting put to sleep, but also a lawsuit from the parents of the child who got bit (or a stranger who unknowingly reaches out to pet it when you are out for a walk). The puppy may be sweet and cute and funny, and the kids may "love" it~ but honestly, is it worth the risk?
Cesar Millan (the Dog Whisperer) writes on his page: "Don’t feel bad if you don’t find the right dog for you the first time out. The right dog is out there for you".


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

I agree with what Missy says here. Sometimes we get a dog and we may get attached but find that it's not a relationship meant to be. Happens with people; happens with pets. Sometimes the proper chemistry is just not there and you can't force it.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Esabet, 
I'm curious now..does your daughter wear any fragrance at all? Scented lotion? It's a long shot but it COULD BE a scent issue...it has happened before. 
Just something to think about. 

And Infiniti has the right idea...it is very likely that Jeter REALLY has to go out. Sometimes this means (at least at first) getting up and taking him out, on leash and see if he goes. If so, reward him and put him back in his crate. If not, simply put him back in the crate and go back to bed. If it IS him needing to go, then you can gradually increase the time before you take him out...it's hard having to rely on us "opposable thumbs" to relieve themselves...


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Esabet,
> I'm curious now..does your daughter wear any fragrance at all? Scented lotion? It's a long shot but it COULD BE a scent issue...it has happened before.
> Just something to think about.
> 
> And Infiniti has the right idea...it is very likely that Jeter REALLY has to go out. Sometimes this means (at least at first) getting up and taking him out, on leash and see if he goes. If so, reward him and put him back in his crate. If not, simply put him back in the crate and go back to bed. If it IS him needing to go, then you can gradually increase the time before you take him out...it's hard having to rely on us "opposable thumbs" to relieve themselves...


My daughter does not wear anything scented!  Nor does my 3 Year old daughter!

As for the crate issue, he does the same thing when we put him inside at night, so I don't really know what to say or think!


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

esabet said:


> My daughter does not wear anything scented!  Nor does my 3 Year old daughter!


Do they use a different soap than the rest of the family? Like a kids soap/shampoo. It might be whatever that is as well. You may not smell it, but it might be just enough different that the dog can.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Jod-dog said:


> Do they use a different soap than the rest of the family? Like a kids soap/shampoo. It might be whatever that is as well. You may not smell it, but it might be just enough different that the dog can.


Since he is OK with my son, I am going to ask my daughter to use his shampoo and body wash for a while and see how that flies!


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

Might help. Kind of unrelated, but yet feels related-LOL, when my daughter was a newborn--a preemie--we had to use unscented EVERYTHING because preemies are so sensitive. If a human baby can be that sensitive to scent, I can only imagine what the pup can smell!


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

esabet, I know you've already expressed that your family has formed an attachment to Jeter already, and you don't want to give him back, but I want to really commend you for doing all that you can do to find out why he behaves the way he does, and being willing to work on it. Joining this forum, asking questions, taking suggestions ... it's just really admirable to me. 

So many dogs and puppies are returned to former owners, shelters, and rescue organizations without the owners first giving thought to why the dog is behaving a certain way or developing certain habits. And you are doing everything you can to make this puppy work for your family.  Whether it works out or not in the end, you will know, as will we all here, that you did everything you could possibly do to get to the bottom of these issues and find solutions!

My Bella's previous owner told me that Bella had been returned to her FIVE TIMES for various (IMO, silly) reasons when she was trying to rehome her, most of which I no longer remember, but a few of which were: pottying on the floor, trying to escape, not obeying commands. ALL of these issues could have been due to the "adjustment" period that all animals have to go through, and could have been resolved with some patience, training and willingness to work with her. In the end, I am glad these five families returned her because she is just absolutely PERFECT for me and I wouldn't have had her otherwise!


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

We took Jeter out yesterday and I saw him interact with another dog.

While the other dog (a Pomeranian) was barking, jumping up and down, dragging its owner across the street to get close to Jeter, Jeter was just standing there, looked at her and sniffed her once and then stood 100% still!!! He did not bark, he did not sniff the other dog - he was simply not moving at all while the other dog was all over him!

_Is there any significant to this behavior?_

By the way, my wife did mention a week ago that when her friend came over with her dog, Jeter behaved exactly the same. The other dog was much smaller than Jeter.


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## Sandi_022 (Apr 13, 2010)

With the whining in the crate problem.... 

This is what we used to do with our puppies when we were little! When you put her in bed at night, just cover the crate with a blanket. This will tell her that its "nite nite" time, and that she needs to go to bed.

I just got a bullmastiff puppy a couple of weeks ago. She did the same thing. I just covered the crate with a blanket, and she stopped whining at early hours in the morning. If she does now, then I'll know that she really has to go potty, and not just wanting to get out and play. I've also put some of her toys in there for her to chew on, and she does perfectly fine. 

I've never heard anywhere where this could be harmful.... we even did it for our bird that would just not shut up through out the night lol.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Hello everyone;

This is an *important *update.

As you may recall I had mentioned that Jeter had begun to bark at my 8 yr old daughter. Well that did not go away and in fact on Saturday he straited to growl at her. 

Interesting enough I got a phone call from Parvene Farhoody as a she was following up. I told her that we have decided to keep Jeter and try to work with him at which point she offered to have one meeting with us. As yo may recall before she had said that she did not have time for us but knowing the situation she really felt like she wants to help us out as much as she can.

We met Parvene on Sunday and she spent over 3 hours with us. Let me first say that she was incredible. 

Regretfully her conclusion was no different than what she had told me over the phone the other day. She thought it would be best for both Jeter and my family to take Jeter back to the breeder!!!

She felt that ultimately Jeter may become more and more aggressive and even bite my daughter, a notion that when we told the breeder about, she became VERY VERY upset and thought it was crazy!!

Irrespective of that she felt Jeter will need lots and lots of work to buildup his confidence and to accept people! During the entire visit Jeter had his tale down even though Parvene was giving him treats constantly. She also noticed how his stand was in the "ready to run" position!

So, bottom line, Jeter is going back. I can't tell you how sad we all are but it could be the best decision for all of us!

The breeder does have a new litter and she did offer us to have a look at her new litter even though they have all been spoken for. She said the new litter is from a different blood line and that made us happy as Parvene felt that Jeter may possibly have a genetic disposition! (_B.T.W. She has ONLY girls and am not sure if it really matters. In the past I was only looking for boys fro some reason! Does it really matter?_) 

We may be crazy to consider getting another pup from the same breeder but, I have to say it again, she does not sound like a "bad" breeder. But again I don't know anything!! 

*NOW, most important of all, I also like to take this opportunity to thank you all for participating and supporting us and I make sure to post once we have gotten a new pup!!!*


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Well, esebet, it is probably for the best. Don't feel bad ... you did your best, and you worked hard to make it work...it just wasn't a good fit for your family. Jeter is simply a jumpy pup and would probably fare better in a one-person (adult) household that has low-level activity. That's just how it goes sometimes. Good for you that you did so much, though! There are many that would go that extra mile!

As for girls vs. boys, that's a personal call. I prefer girls, others prefer boys.

"Males are more prone to marking and aggressive behavior, but neutering can greatly reduce these behaviors. Males also have a reputation for humping people, objects, and other dogs. Most of the time this is a show of dominance that can be corrected with training. Some say that males are typically more dependent on their people than females. This often makes them more affectionate toward people. Male dogs have a tendency to be more eager to please during training, so they are slightly easier to train. 

Female dogs are not as likely to mark their territory, which often makes them slightly easier to housetrain. They are also less likely to show dominance through humping people or objects, and tend to be less aggressive than male dogs. One drawback of female pets is that they tend to be very independent, which means they may like to have time alone, and they might not always want to be touched when you want to pet them. They can also be hormonal and moody. They can also be very stubborn, making training a bit more challenging." (Source http://www.essortment.com/hobbies/maledogsvsfem_tuxu.htm)

I don't think it's an issue to go to the same breeder, necessarily, if you have faith in the breeder. Sometimes a temperamental pup is born.


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## esabet (Mar 31, 2010)

Thank you for the reassurance and for the info.



infiniti said:


> Well, esebet, it is probably for the best. Don't feel bad ... you did your best, and you worked hard to make it work...it just wasn't a good fit for your family. Jeter is simply a jumpy pup and would probably fare better in a one-person (adult) household that has low-level activity. That's just how it goes sometimes. Good for you that you did so much, though! There are many that would go that extra mile!
> 
> As for girls vs. boys, that's a personal call. I prefer girls, others prefer boys.
> 
> ...


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Esabet, I am so glad you managed to get an assessment done on Jeter. The decision you have made is likely the best one for all involved, including Jeter. 

I do look forward to hearing about your new pup when he or she arrives.

Good luck.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

Sorry that you had to make this decision, but it sounds like it will be best for everyone involved.

Post plenty of pics when you get the new pup! I would love to see it!

As for the girls/boys debate...well, I have had 2 girls and one boy. There isn't a whole lot of difference--all were fixed...my male doesn't mark much, even outside.


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## Bichonthebest (Oct 14, 2020)

Hello, I just joined the forum and saw your post but it was from 2010. Everything was so familiar as we got a Bichon from a PA breeder with almost same issues at the begining. My question to you is are you able to resolve the difficulties over time and was he able to adjust eventually? 



esabet said:


> Hello all;
> 
> We recently (almost three weeks now) got a _*purebred *_ male Bichon Frise from a breeder. He is 10 months old. The breeder told us that she had initially intended to keep him as a show dog but she decided to let him go because she felt he is not "*aggressive*" enough! Our initial reaction to that was "perfect" for us!!!
> 
> ...


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Bichonthebest said:


> Hello, I just joined the forum and saw your post but it was from 2010. Everything was so familiar as we got a Bichon from a PA breeder with almost same issues at the begining. My question to you is are you able to resolve the difficulties over time and was he able to adjust eventually?


We'll never know. The OP hasn't been here for about ten years. I would recommend you start a new thread.


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