# What is a pit bull's temperament like?



## Sloth (Jul 29, 2008)

I just have a hard time trusting the Internet pages I've seen. So many of them appear too desperate to save the pit bull's reputation...they want everyone to love pit bulls.

It seems that they love people, but some of them can be dog aggressive. And they're intelligent and loyal and ready to defend their people.

But the same general descriptions can be said for 75% of the breeds out there (except the DA). Would a pit bull go for a run with you? Go for a long hike? Run beside your bike when you mountainbike down a trail? And lay quietly on the couch when you just don't feel like exercising that day?


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

Pitties are great, loving, athletic, biddable dogs. In my experience, they will do whatever they can to please their person. They're ridiculously missunderstood and it's a shame.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Totally depends on the pit bull. There's simply too much diversity to make generalizations. Pit bulls can be Am Staffs, Staffy Bulls, APBTs, Bull Terriers, Mixes... 

I own two. Mine will hike, run, compete, chill on the couch, love on everyone. Great dogs. They must be monitored with other dogs, but they also love to play with others most times. 

Mine are committed to being active and love training.

It all comes down to the specific dog. I adore them, but they aren't perfect.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

What a particular dog likes is dog to dog, really. APBTs are athletic and generally high drive, so most APBTs would love hiking and other activities. 

As to temperament, APBTs should be in love with all humans. Think Golden Retriever levels of human love. Loyalty . . . Not like a German Shepherd. More like a lab. APBTs should be happy, loving, playful clowns. 

Dog aggression: any dog of any breed can be DA. However, APBTs were bred for over a century to fight other APBTs. They're also terriers, and terriers are drivy and don't give up. APBTs are more likely to be DA than most other breeds and when they do fight, it's ugly. They don't give up. Puppies generally love other dogs and "turn on" between 18 months and 3 years. 

All in all, APBTs are fantastic family dogs and great companions, but you need to be aware of and prepared for DA.


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## Sloth (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the replies!



trainingjunkie said:


> Totally depends on the pit bull. There's simply too much diversity to make generalizations. Pit bulls can be Am Staffs, Staffy Bulls, APBTs, Bull Terriers, Mixes...


I wonder if that's part of the problem I'm having in finding an accurate temperament description.

One more question: I read that an airline is outlawing Bully breeds, not because of aggression issues, but because of their brachycephallic shape. It said that they're including pit bulls in the ban for the same reason.

When I think brachy dogs, I think pugs, bull dogs, etc. Didn't think pit bulls fit that description, but maybe I was thinking only of extreme examples? Do pit bulls have any breathing issues, especially during long stamina activities?


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

It depends in how they are bred and what you put into them as well. 

I don't see what is wrong with trying to saves a misunderstood breeds reputation. 

Pit Bulls are APBTs not a bunch of breeds or mixes, mixes are just that mutts. 



Sloth said:


> But the same general descriptions can be said for 75% of the breeds out there (except the DA). Would a pit bull go for a run with you? Go for a long hike? Run beside your bike when you mountainbike down a trail? And lay quietly on the couch when you just don't feel like exercising that day?


This sums it up. What I love about them. They can work like crazy but settle into a calm house pet. 

Amaryllis post on DA is great. When they turn on can vary, I've had plenty which were under 18 months old. It can vary individually but also depends on their breeding.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Sloth said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies!
> 
> I wonder if that's part of the problem I'm having in finding an accurate temperament description.
> 
> ...


It is part of the problem. Ignorant general public, BSL, people who witness an attack lump a a bunch of breeds together as pit bulls. Bully breeds and medium to large breeds with similar features. Due this inaccuracy the Pit Bull gets blamed for more bites and people have to sometimes fight to keep their non Pit Bull when bsl comes. 
You will also find varied and even inaccurate breed info on the net for any breed though. 
If you research APBT that will help.
I'm not sure what is up with that. You are right in your thinking of brachycephalic breeds. 

APBT are in no way a brachycephalic breed. Any breed of dog which can fight for 3 hours has no problems with stamina or breathing. An APBT shouldn't have breathing problems period. If they do its due to structure fault or health issue.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I'll just speak for the ones I know. 

The majority of them are....
medium to high energy, total cuddle bugs (like velcro dogs!), short haired and easy to groom, sturdy, muscled, a bit noisy (tend to talk or vocalize a lot), tenacious, love to play, love fetch or other interactive games (tug, flirt pole), dog tolerant, people oriented

Dog aggression is an issue, but I'd say more are dog selective than completely aggressive. As in, they can get along with the dogs in their home or they can behave on walks in public but they shouldn't be left alone with other dogs and introductions of new dogs should be done carefully. Some are very dog friendly their whole lives, some want to kill every dog they see from early on. Most fall somewhere in between

Better with heat than cold since they have thin coats and bare bellies often. Often not good with cats or small animals due to terrier prey drive but I've also met a number that live happily with cats.

Absolutely a ton of fun....

New Lab/Pit foster arrives this week


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## qingcong (Oct 26, 2009)

A guy I knew some time ago had a house way up in the woods in NJ. He'd let his pit bulls run free out there and they always stayed close. If they sensed something, they'd go running after it, but they always came back. They were definitely people dogs, they'll rub up against you and act like a 100lb puppy. They let kids pull on their tails and tackle them and do all sorts of stuff. I think because of their high pain tolerance, they're immune to young children's antics. At the same time, his male pit bull had killed many dogs in its time. Flat out killed right on the spot. He also played particularly rough with another male pit. Then you see the pits on the Dog Whisperer like Daddy and Junior and you have to think that with hardcore socialization like CM does at his center, pits can be just as friendly to other dogs as with humans.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

If you think of it this way, the terrier group is the only group of dogs that were bred specifically to kill. APBT is no different, I say that any of the terriers need to have a strong owner not someone who will just give into their behaviour. I am 100% against BSL because it just doesn't work, also I would say that the little dogs like Chihuahua and other's can be way more vicious, but now you are seeing more and more breeds like the Lab and Golden Retrievers that are becoming more vicious mainly because of all of the inbreeding that goes on.


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## turtlesocks (May 18, 2012)

I have an adopted pit, and I have to second everyone who has said that personalities vary! And also that pits are not fans of extreme weather, and, IME, tend to enjoy the finer things in life (like a comfy armchair and a piece of banana now and then).

While Toby can jump like a kangaroo during playtime and will never turn down a walk, he spends most of his day curled up in various (soft) locations throughout the house, as close to a person as possible. I would say he's a medium-low active dog, honestly. Unlike most terriers, he has no real prey drive. He lived with chickens without really paying them any attention, and has been the same with kittens, cats, and small dogs. 

He's very bright, and responds well to training (he learned to shake without treats in about two 5 minute sessions!). 

Like many pits, he loves kids, and loves being the center of attention when we go to the park. He has a high tolerance for little kid antics -- like accidentally poking him in the eye or sticking an errant finger in his ear.
At 2ish to 3ish years old, I am fairly sure he's settled in his personality, and shows absolutely no signs of dog aggression. He frequently gets bossed about my my parents' Cairn terrier and takes it in stride. I also have a very assertive, selectively DA Pyr mix who he gets along with very well. 

He will only bark at someone coming to the door if my other dog starts barking, or if the person attempts to open the door without being welcomed. I had a friend try to come in once without waiting for me to come to the door (didn't hear the knock, but knew she was coming over) and Toby barked, maybe 3 times, but didn't charge the door or anything. Just waited for me to sort it out. Yesterday he was on a potty break in the yard while I made breakfast, and my father came into the yard without letting me know he was there. Not something I think was smart, personally, but it turned out okay. Toby waited for him to open the gate without barking and greeted him calmly (per my dad's report). Of course, he knows my father and sees him all the time. 

On the other hand, I had some friends who rescued an adult pitbull off the street (he was a Nashville flood dog so this was some time ago) and got him treated for a horrendous case of heartworms and got him back into shape. He showed signs of either real physical trauma from the flood, or some pretty serious neglect/abuse. At first it seemed to work out, but as he got less sick he became more and more unpredictable, until finally he bit one of their children. Maybe there were things the family didn't do right (not out of a lack of having anything but the best intentions, but just a lack of the necessary experience to deal with a dog that strong and from that kind of a history), but they were heartbroken. After the bite they made the decision to euthanize. That was sad story.  Sorry. 

Anyway, I'm just saying, every dog has a story and a personality all its own. If I had judged Toby by my personal experience with pitbulls, I would have immediately thought he was "too much" dog for me, no matter how well-adjusted he seemed. Turns out, he's perfect.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

qingcong said:


> I think because of their high pain tolerance, they're immune to young children's antics.


Um, NO! They aren't "immune" to young children antics. They just have higher threshold for such abuse. No dog is "immune" to such things.



> At the same time, his male pit bull had killed many dogs in its time. Flat out killed right on the spot. He also played particularly rough with another male pit.


Your "friend" is a highly irresponsible owner if he allowed his dog to "kill" other dogs. Yes Pits have a higher tendency toward dog aggression, most can be managed. My male Pit isn't too dog friendly when first greeting a new dog. He comes around quickly but at first he'll snark but then he's fine and I've found that true to most of the breed. There's even a Youtube video of a 5x Ch APBT (who won 5 fights back when it was legal) walking around with other dogs. 

UOTE=Sarayu14;1184129]If you think of it this way, the terrier group is the only group of dogs that were bred specifically to kill. APBT is no different, I say that any of the terriers need to have a strong owner not someone who will just give into their behaviour. I am 100% against BSL because it just doesn't work, also I would say that the little dogs like Chihuahua and other's can be way more vicious, but now you are seeing more and more breeds like the Lab and Golden Retrievers that are becoming more vicious mainly because of all of the inbreeding that goes on.[/QUOTE]
:doh: Not even sure where to start on this post. :doh: 
A lot of different breeds were bred to "kill". Terriers were bred as prey driven dogs, and not ever terrier likes to even go after prey. Yes the APBT is a prey driven dog, but they aren't "killers" as you are stating. My two have pretty strong Prey drive, but once they catch their prey they don't know what to do. The neighbor's cat has lucked out a few times because these two don't kill their prey, but boy was that cat shocked and scared. Obviously not enough to stay out of my yard.

As for Inbreeding... :doh::doh::doh: Inbreeding has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. Poor breeding habits along with greed and bad owners have more to do with the issue then anything else. Inbreeding is necessary to bring out characteristics that people like in a dog. 

As for the question at hand, I've met hundreds of Pits of many different breeds and they are all people loving, high driven, smart dogs, who LOVE to please their owner, and are velcro dogs.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

100lbs puppy....that's a figure of speech right? We are talking about APBTs not American Bulldogs whoch are sometimes confused. 

CM dogs have attacked other dogs. When you watch a TV show it is edited you dont see everything that goes on. The dogs are also not filmed 100% of the time. Hardcore socialization won't make a dog like other dogs, training and socialization are important but it is about the dogs individual personality. You could socialize a Pit very little and they like other dogs a lot. 
Most importantly Daddy seemed much for bully or something. So doesn't represent the APBT breed. Wouldn't you agree? Any mix type dog isn't a reliable individual to judge breed traits.

............

I know very little about sporting breeds but have to believe tht they would be similar to other breeds. Therefore if inbreeding doesn't cause bad temperament in APBT I don't believe Labs would be much different in general. I'm sure its related to poor breeding of which you find in out bred dogs, even cross breeds with improper temperament.


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

Ive met several over the last few years. These have all been young dogs with an energy level similar to a Lab or Boxer...very playful, just wanting to have a good time, sweet and just total love bugs. The only exception was one little guy that just acted terrified when he saw me & my girls. He kept his distance (I instructed my girls to ignore him and continue walking) and did a lot of barking, nothing even remotely aggressive or threatening.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Great post Darkmoon.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

You know I get seriously tired of people saying Pitties are this, this, this, this and that breed. That is misinformation at it's core, and one of the biggest reason this breed is so misunderstood. A pit bull is not a staffordshire bull terrier, it's not an Am bully, it's not a bull terrier, it's not a mixed breed, they are not a mastiff (I have seen mastiffs put into the "pit bull category"), and plenty of people will argue that an Amstaff is not a pit bull. There is only one breed that has pit bull specifically in it's name, and that is the American Pit Bull Terrier, the one and only Pit Bull. Just because a dog/breed is of bull and terrier origin does not make them all the same breed. And for that matter just because the media chooses to use pit bull incorrectly as an umbrella term does not make it so. 


On to Labradors/Goldens/Chi's/etc. Those breeds are so over bred, there are too many bad breeders (much like pitties). The temperament issues have nothing to do with inbreeding (although too much inbreeding can cause problems), and have everything to do with poor breeding practices, and improper socialization on both the breeder and owners part. Inbreeding or rather line breeding when used properly and sparingly is a great way to set good traits into a line, sure you may get some bad traits, but you can get those from out crossing too. A dog can be completely out crossed and still have temperament and health issues. Breeding is all about the pairings, not just throwing two dogs together and hoping they produce nice puppies, it doesn't work like that. And, you can not assume that if a dog has a temperament issue it is mainly caused by inbreeding, that is just plain ignorance, there could very well be other factors at play. 



OP: what you have been reading about the APBT, depending on the source of course, is very much likely true of the breed. Of course fanciers are trying to save this breed's rep, wouldn't you if this breed was one you loved? This breed was always bred to be human friendly, or at least should have been. DA is in the breed, DA is in many breeds (and certain lines of breeds not known for it), and many individual dogs. Just because the breed can have DA, does not mean all examples will be DA or even DR. DA for that matter is very manageable if the owner is on top of things. 

Pitties are a very athletic breed, so yeah I would say they could handle hiking, biking, etc. They are certainly not a breed for everybody, you (general you) should do a ton of research (just like with any other breed) before considering them.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Every bully-type dog (no clue if any were actual APBT) I've ever met were my basic idea of a DOG. Ya know--likes to play, goofy doof, couch-holder-downer, just a dog. I don't know why, because I grew up with Shiba Inu as "just plain dogs" but that's how they seem to me.


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## Sasha1/2 (Dec 22, 2011)

Sloth said:


> Would a pit bull go for a run with you? Go for a long hike? Run beside your bike when you mountain bike down a trail? And lay quietly on the couch when you just don't feel like exercising that day?


Just a few months after we adopted our rescued 18 month old Pit Bull I began training for a half marathon. Corky never missed a run with me. One week prior to my race we ran 20K together. When it was over I was DONE. He wanted to go for another 5K. Those long runs triggered a return of fibromyalgia that had been in a remission for me. I haven't ran more than 5K in two years and Corky is still by my side, whether on the sofa or walking to the store for a jug of milk. 

I wish I could recommend Pit Bulls to everyone. The ones I've met and fostered through the local rescue group have been awesome, EXCEPT dog aggression is a very real possibility with these types of dogs and only an experienced dog owner should be managing that.


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## begemot (Feb 1, 2011)

Darkmoon said:


> Inbreeding is necessary to bring out characteristics that people like in a dog.


??? Why on earth would you "need" to inbreed to make a nice family dog? Or a dog for any other purpose? If inbreeding is "necessary to bring out characteristics that people like in a dog," by implication, all dogs that aren't inbred _don't_ have the "characteristics that people like in a dog."

Inbreeding is not necessary for any purpose. The only benefit is extremely consistent dogs, because they share more genetic information -- like if you started inbreeding your own family, the kids would look more alike than the offspring of unrelated couples. Which is why some breeders cheat and use inbreeding as a short cut to get what they want. The downsides are seriously _myriad_, for the offspring and for the breed.


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## bgmacaw (May 5, 2012)

Temperament really varies between individual dogs. Both genetics and upbringing play into it. Good positive training from the start can help avoid the worse genetic tendencies while bad or intentional fight training can bring out unwanted traits.

The pit bull mix I owned back in the 80's was a big lovable doofus. He was very sweet toward people, probably too sweet since I lived on a farm at the time and I wanted him to perform some guarding functions. I laugh at the Allstate mayhem commercial because it reminds me of how he would act around strangers. They were usually his new best friends.

He was tolerant toward other dogs unless they provoked him into reacting. This usually meant them getting near his stuff like his house or food/water bowls. He didn't resource guard people.

Training him was tough. I had a border collie before him and he just couldn't catch onto things anywhere near as easily. I was only able to teach him about 4 commands that he would perform consistently. At least his recall was good. 

Sadly, most pitbull type dogs I've seen since him have been poorly trained or trained/allowed to be aggressive, toward people, dogs or both. I think you can work with almost any dog but one that's already been messed up in some way will be more difficult to manage.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

The pit bulls that we've owned or helped train are very friendly with people. Altho I personally prefer Lab-mixes, I believe that pits are a little better with people, tougher to benign abuse, and a little more cuddly. Very strong dogs with a love of tug. I consider them to be a little more energetic than Labs, a little less easy to train... but still easy to train, and quicker, with faster reflexes.

I believe that a socialized pit will not be aggressive, but also will not back down if another dog growls.

I think that one source of the bad reputation comes from over-excitement. We helped one family train an amazingly sweet female pit with Bite Inhibition that was soft as cotton. On the other hand, my nephew has a pit with inadequate Bite Inhibition that can draw blood while playing with other dogs, and can nip people during tug .... not aggression by any stretch, just over-excitement and inadequate Bite Inhibition. I have minimal control over the training, and I'm not allowed to use a newspaper on my nephew


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## Sasha1/2 (Dec 22, 2011)

hanksimon said:


> I believe that a socialized pit will not be aggressive, but also will not back down if another dog growls.


This is a good summary of the puppies and dogs we've fostered in rescue.


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## Sloth (Jul 29, 2008)

So...THIS is the American Pitbull Terrier, right? The "real" pit bull? I'm mostly looking at the pics towards the bottom of the page: http://animaltheory.blogspot.com/2011/10/american-pitbull-terrier.html

Or this wallpaper: http://www.hdwallpaperscollection.com/pitbull-dog-wallpaper-hd.html

I never, EVER see those dogs in shelters. They're half the height and 5x the width of what I thought a "pit bull" was. Instead, I always see this:

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/23111033

Or the third picture on the bottom: http://www.badrap.org/node/96

And this: http://www.badrap.org/node/97

Are those pit bull mixes, not APBTs? Obviously some are mixes, like the gargoyle-looking one they label as "DA-turned-to dog selective." But the others...un-muscled APBTs, or are they mixes too?


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## Sasha1/2 (Dec 22, 2011)

Many of the rescues I've fostered come from California kill shelters and from there you will see APBTs. You are right, though, that many are mixes or backyard bred, so not to standard.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

begemot said:


> ??? Why on earth would you "need" to inbreed to make a nice family dog? Or a dog for any other purpose? If inbreeding is "necessary to bring out characteristics that people like in a dog," by implication, all dogs that aren't inbred _don't_ have the "characteristics that people like in a dog."


While APBTs make great family dogs who said anything about breeding to create nice family dogs or requiring inbreeding to do so. APBTs (and many other breeds) were not created to to be "nice family dogs" but for a specific function. Inbreeding can be used to set traits of a particular dog and keep the traits consistent in the bloodline. As you said extremely consistent when you are breeding for a certain purpose you want a predictable outcome. 

Of course no one is implicating that statement with negativity. Lol. You are twisting what Darkmoon said. 

Out crossed dogs can bring you something positive to the table. I'm sure Darkmoon knows this and wasn't implying one should only inbreed. 

What she said was its needed to bring out the characteristics people like in a dog. This is true, at least in theory and opinion. You don't have to agree. As you said like genetic material, consistentcy.... A dog which isn't inbred is less likely to have the characteristics or have less characteristics people like in a dog because that dog is only contributing 1x the progeny. How can you expect to have his (or her) characteristics when they contribute less and less of their genes with each consecutive generation. The max contribution would be 50% to direct offspring then they have less and less influene. 



> Inbreeding is not necessary for any purpose. The only benefit is extremely consistent dogs, because they share more genetic information -- like if you started inbreeding your own family, the kids would look more alike than the offspring of unrelated couples. Which is why some breeders cheat and use inbreeding as a short cut to get what they want. The downsides are seriously _myriad_, for the offspring and for the breed.


I understand the negative impact it could have on a breed. 

But individual offspring?!

My dogs (whether inbred or out crossed) are as happy, healthy as the next dog. Mutts included.


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## qingcong (Oct 26, 2009)

Darkmoon said:


> Um, NO! They aren't "immune" to young children antics. They just have higher threshold for such abuse. No dog is "immune" to such things.


Agree, immune is not the right word, higher threshold is correct.





> Your "friend" is a highly irresponsible owner if he allowed his dog to "kill" other dogs. Yes Pits have a higher tendency toward dog aggression, most can be managed. My male Pit isn't too dog friendly when first greeting a new dog. He comes around quickly but at first he'll snark but then he's fine and I've found that true to most of the breed. There's even a Youtube video of a 5x Ch APBT (who won 5 fights back when it was legal) walking around with other dogs.


Notice, I was careful not to mention him as my friend. I was just sharing a story, but it's by no means what I believe. It's completely illogical and downright incorrect to label a dog based on its breed. You can't just start with an 8 week old pit puppy and be like, "oh yeah, this guy's gonna be a killer!" If a dog growls at another dog then it's like, "yep, that's cause he's a pit!" This kind of self-fulfilling mindset is detrimental to the individual owner. I think that anecdotal stories that people share with each other about their experiences need to be taken into context and not used as a rule. That said, if you have a pit puppy, I think that you'd have to be extremely mindful of what they're capable of and do the requisite socialization and training to keep them safe around people and dogs.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Sloth said:


> So...THIS is the American Pitbull Terrier, right? The "real" pit bull? I'm mostly looking at the pics towards the bottom of the page: http://animaltheory.blogspot.com/2011/10/american-pitbull-terrier.html
> 
> Or this wallpaper: http://www.hdwallpaperscollection.com/pitbull-dog-wallpaper-hd.html
> 
> ...


Most of those pictures on the first link are Am bullys. There is maybe one or two on there that are real APBTs. The first pictures is probably a UKC style pittie. The next two pictures are AM bullys. The next one is an APBT, likely ADBA style. The next one is most likely an Am bully. The next one is likely pitties, at least the white one. 

The wall paper is an Am bully. It's likely the shorty bull type of Am bully. 

The pet finder is likely a pittie or pittie mix. 

The first badrap link shows pitties and mixes, the second is the same.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Sloth said:


> So...THIS is the American Pitbull Terrier, right? The "real" pit bull? I'm mostly looking at the pics towards the bottom of the page: http://animaltheory.blogspot.com/2011/10/american-pitbull-terrier.html
> 
> Or this wallpaper: http://www.hdwallpaperscollection.com/pitbull-dog-wallpaper-hd.html
> 
> ...


The 1st link has a mixture of AmBully, APBT, and some with AST. (I know the pedigrees on a couple)

The 2nd link is an American Bully. A pit mix or new breed derived from APBT/AST and other breeds such as English Bulldog, mastiff, various breeds for shortened stature, heavier bone, ect. 

The petfinder pic might be a Pit mix or a Pit, its a rescue so you can't really say. 

Badrap is also a rescue group which take Pits AND Pit mixes. It's not possible to say what's what. 
The red nose dog in the banner is stunning! I'd love to have that dog or similar in a heartbeat. But the brindle in the banner with it looks like Bull Terrier mix. 

You can Google APBT and American Bully to find more info. 

If you just want pics look at my threads in the gallery or my pic post in general. Darkmoons threads. Oh and our siggies. You could always look on adba website or APBT confirmation.com

Muzzle from nose to stop should be the length of stop to back of the skull BTW. Not brachy. 
An American Bully couldn't physically last in a fight. Could you imagine a dog like that doing anything physically demanding. 
How many super athletic working breeds do you see which are short, wide, fat, with short muzzle? 

How much muscle a dog has is dependent on genetics as well as diet and exercise. An APBT should be lean and muscular. Most are only conditioned though for show/work and not kept that way all the time. Still many other Pits are only pets and the owner has no real concern with muscle tone.


I wonder how much you are paying attention to the replies.



...


> Are those pit bull mixes, not APBTs? Obviously some are mixes, like the gargoyle-looking one they label as "DA-turned-to dog selective." But the others...un-muscled APBTs, or are they mixes too?


What do you mean by gargoyle looking? Never heard this term before that I recall.


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## Sloth (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks for the informative replies!

"Gargoyle-looking" was just a non-professional term I used to describe the dog mentioned in my post. Because it looks like a gargoyle from a show I saw as a kid.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

I just didn't know what it meant thanks.
I didn't see any on the site that I could fully identify as pure or mixed. It's too hard to say. Most look likely to be pure but a mix can look pure bred, especially if the dog has a similar breed. A pure bred can also look questionable when byb without any direction.


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## NicoleMBDP21 (Jun 4, 2012)

Pit bulls are great dogs. I've had experience with quite a few, all different types. They are sweet, loving, protective, and very energetic and playful. Pit bulls are not born mean like a lot of people say. It just depends on how they are raised and who their owners are. Some people feed their pit bulls gun powder, train them to fight, and even fight to the death. Just because so many people have done that, that's how they got their bad name. I had a beautiful red nose pit bull, Deebo, who was a sweet heart and was best friends with my dog I currently have, Baby Gurl, who is rat terrier/red nose pitbull mix. He would let her beat up on him when they played, but neither one of them held back, lol. I wish I could have kept him but he marked his territory on every single object where we lived and I couldn't deal with that! But anyways.....they are amazing dogs, very loyal and sweet. I'm not allowed to have pitbulls where I live or events have a dog over 25 pounds, but I'd like to get another one someday. One thing to remember, try to get the as puppies so you can raise them and you know exactly what their life has and is going to be like. I got Deebo when he was 9 months old, and I'm pretty sure he was beat because it took me and my boyfriend about 20 minutes to get him up the stairs and inside and he was scared shitless. The he got used to us and he was just a ham Again, there is nothing wrong with pitbulls, you just have to make sure you don't get a pitbull from someone who fights them or feeds them the wrong things! You train them and show them a loving home and they will be just like a chihuahua! Lol


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

In today's world, it is nearly impossible to define "pit bull." On dedicated dog sites, many people will insist that pit bulls are ONLY purebred APBTs. I am glad to accept this definition, but in the functional world, it falls apart. Insurance companies, city statutes, most shelters, and the general public lump together a bunch of distinct breeds and call them pit bulls, and if you own a staffy bull or an amstaff, you will have to deal with all of the "pit bull" issues. The AKC does not recognize the APBT. That means nothing important, but it does add to the confusion. By definition, any AKC dog should be exempt from pit bull bans, but they are not. Some "purebred" APBTs are such over-done bullies that calling them pit bulls seems like a travesty. The traditional APBT of the past looks nothing like english-bull type APBTs, think Razor's Edge...

Declaring a temperament "type" is tough without first agreeing to what we are talking about. The traditional APBT is one thing. The squat/squares that are becoming so popular are a completely different thing. They couldn't walk a mile on a sunny day, where the traditional APBT has enough "go" to keep you company as you train for a marathon.

In the end, it makes more sense to look at the individual dog in front of you because they all vary so much.

And if you want a chihuahua or a lab, it really works best to get a chihuahua or a lab. A "pit bull" is not a beagle, no matter how you raise them. If you don't like the traits that are typically inherent in the breed, get a different breed or chose an adult dog and look at him very, very carefully to see if he matches your expectations. I live with two dog who would be considered "pit bulls" by nearly everyone on the planet. They make my life amazing and I adore them, but no amount of training would make either of them poodles. I got them because I love terriers, and they are terriers to the core. 

Honor the genetics of the dog, even as you evaluate them as individuals. "Pit Bulls" are not saints. They are not evil. They're just dogs. Both sides of the extremes are equally inaccurate. They're awesome and they make my heart sing, but they're dogs.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I have very limited experience, but the only possible pit mix I know seems to fit most of the traits mentioned so far. She's super friendly with people. Within hours of the first time I met her she laid down with her face in my lap and fell right to sleep. Her personality is much more "intense" than I'm used to. She would go from lying down to deciding she was thirsty or wanted to play and spring up like she was on a very important mission. She seems like a very serious dog, but ends up doing goofy things all the time without intending to. And she's all muscle.

When it comes to other dogs, I'm told she is very good with larger more boisterous ones like labs. Her play style was a bit much for Sydney. I've known some larger dogs that easily scale down their play to be gentle with smaller dogs. She didn't seem very capable of that. Sydney actually drags her under tables or onto furniture when she comes over so she's less able to pounce. ;p She seems very tolerant of other dogs though, in that she corrects things like humping only very mildy.

Anyway, who knows if she's even a pit mix. I guess you guys can decide that for yourselves.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

This might be helPful: www.adbadog.com/p_home.asp


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

NicoleMBDP21 said:


> Again, there is nothing wrong with pitbulls, you just have to make sure you don't get a pitbull from someone who fights them or feeds them the wrong things! You train them and show them a loving home and they will be just like a chihuahua! Lol


Pretty much All Pit Bulls DESERVE a loving home IMO. Getting a dog out of a bad situation is one of the greatest things you can do for a dog. They are one of the most selfless beings on earth. Considering APBTs have their great nature with people, stability and many other positive traits thanks to dog fighting shunning a game bred dog or rescued pit dog is quite ridiculous! 

If you give them a loving home and training they won't be just like a Chihuahua. At least they shouldn't. Or would they really qualify as a Pit Bull? There is opinion on breed distinction than being more than genetically "pure bred". I don't want a Chihuahua and certainly don't want a Pit or any other breed I chose to be like a Chi. 

There is nothing wrong with getting an older dog. An adult you know their mature temperament. You can as well train a dog not to mark. Never had this problem with adult males I've acquired. 

Rat terrier/pit that is some mix. Fine dog I bet. I've heard opinion that'd it'd be a handful of a dog but if I were looking to adopt a mix its not one I'd pass up. Although I'm unsure why its important to mention the Pits color. I've seen this done a lot. I also see it with Labs.


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## houndies (Feb 2, 2012)

trainingjunkie said:


> In today's world, it is nearly impossible to define "pit bull." On dedicated dog sites, many people will insist that pit bulls are ONLY purebred APBTs. I am glad to accept this definition, but in the functional world, it falls apart. Insurance companies, city statutes, most shelters, and the general public lump together a bunch of distinct breeds and call them pit bulls, and if you own a staffy bull or an amstaff, you will have to deal with all of the "pit bull" issues. The AKC does not recognize the APBT. That means nothing important, but it does add to the confusion. By definition, any AKC dog should be exempt from pit bull bans, but they are not. Some "purebred" APBTs are such over-done bullies that calling them pit bulls seems like a travesty. The traditional APBT of the past looks nothing like english-bull type APBTs, think Razor's Edge...
> 
> Declaring a temperament "type" is tough without first agreeing to what we are talking about. The traditional APBT is one thing. The squat/squares that are becoming so popular are a completely different thing. They couldn't walk a mile on a sunny day, where the traditional APBT has enough "go" to keep you company as you train for a marathon.
> 
> ...


Very well said ! 
I think this is with all breeds and dogs no matter what they are...


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

trainingjunkie said:


> In today's world, it is nearly impossible to define "pit bull." On dedicated dog sites, many people will insist that pit bulls are ONLY purebred APBTs. I am glad to accept this definition, but in the functional world, it falls apart. Insurance companies, city statutes, most shelters, and the general public lump together a bunch of distinct breeds and call them pit bulls, and if you own a staffy bull or an amstaff, you will have to deal with all of the "pit bull" issues. The AKC does not recognize the APBT. That means nothing important, but it does add to the confusion. By definition, any AKC dog should be exempt from pit bull bans, but they are not. Some "purebred" APBTs are such over-done bullies that calling them pit bulls seems like a travesty. The traditional APBT of the past looks nothing like english-bull type APBTs, think Razor's Edge...
> 
> Declaring a temperament "type" is tough without first agreeing to what we are talking about. The traditional APBT is one thing. The squat/squares that are becoming so popular are a completely different thing. They couldn't walk a mile on a sunny day, where the traditional APBT has enough "go" to keep you company as you train for a marathon.
> 
> ...


Great post! 
We still need to work to keep the definition clear. I know BSL doesn't care if you have an American Bulldog. If it looks like a Pit your dog could be in danger. 
With insurance I've not had the issue, I've had them mistake breed ID but they accepted they were wrong. They don't seem to be as hardcore as BSL though I'm sure some are. 

I think part of the issue is that AKC accepted APBT for registry but then used a different name so it causes some confusion. I have seen some BSL specifically includes AST (along with APBT, Pit Bull and any mix there of). 
I guess the issue with SBT (which I've rarely seen named) is its still a pit dog breed with similar looks. But some BSL bans dogs as being pits by looks alone. Senseless since they can't tell what's a pit they have to be extra sure to eliminate these dangerous killers. 

I think some people need to accept that a Bully isn't a Pit and nothing like a Pit. (I hate these dogs being associated with my dogs) Just as an English Bulldog really is nothing like a bulldog imo its a misnomer.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

trainingjunkie said:


> In today's world, it is nearly impossible to define "pit bull." On dedicated dog sites, many people will insist that pit bulls are ONLY purebred APBTs. I am glad to accept this definition, but in the functional world, it falls apart. Insurance companies, city statutes, most shelters, and the general public lump together a bunch of distinct breeds and call them pit bulls, and if you own a staffy bull or an amstaff, you will have to deal with all of the "pit bull" issues. The AKC does not recognize the APBT. That means nothing important, but it does add to the confusion. By definition, any AKC dog should be exempt from pit bull bans, but they are not. Some "purebred" APBTs are such over-done bullies that calling them pit bulls seems like a travesty. The traditional APBT of the past looks nothing like english-bull type APBTs, think Razor's Edge...
> 
> Declaring a temperament "type" is tough without first agreeing to what we are talking about. The traditional APBT is one thing. The squat/squares that are becoming so popular are a completely different thing. They couldn't walk a mile on a sunny day, where the traditional APBT has enough "go" to keep you company as you train for a marathon.
> 
> ...


How true. I'm always amazed at those folks who get a dog of breed A - sometimes spending a lot of time, effort, and money in the process - and then are perplexed to find that their dog isn't behaving like a typical dog of breed B. My answer to them is if you like the way a typical breed B dog behaves, that's the dog you should have gotten. No guarantees - but your chances are much more likely.


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## Sloth (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks again for all the great replies. I'm unsure about getting a pit puppy so you can "guide" its temperament...it sounds like (from what I've read on here and other websites, not personal experience) pit puppies can be very dog social when they're younger, then "turn on" after a year or so. The Bad Rap website says few pits are truly dog aggressive, but few are dog social. Most are somewhere in between. I wouldn't want to get a puppy and gamble over what it's going to be.



Spicy1_VV said:


> Although I'm unsure why its important to mention the Pits color. I've seen this done a lot. I also see it with Labs.


I've seen it mentioned ALL the time, I was almost wondering if there's a misconception that it means something more than just color. I've never seen a certain color associated with a certain temperament on any of my reading, but some of the ways I've heard people describe their pits - it's like they think there's a connection. Not the person here who talked about their red-nosed pit bull, but others I've seen. "I was walking my dog and saw a blue-nosed pit bull, so I crossed to the other side of the street."


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Someone else can talk to the genetics of white, albino Pits... but I don't think it has anything to do with personality.

One thing that can happen is that a socialized Pit can get over-excited and bite hard during play. It is not aggression, but it hurts and can cause bloodshed, nonetheless. The cure is simple - Bite Inhibition and training during play to reduce the tendency to get over-excited. A good Pit will self-handicap, play while on its back, and will slime the starch out of smaller dogs... but no harm.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Sloth said:


> I've seen it mentioned ALL the time, I was almost wondering if there's a misconception that it means something more than just color. I've never seen a certain color associated with a certain temperament on any of my reading, but some of the ways I've heard people describe their pits - it's like they think there's a connection. Not the person here who talked about their red-nosed pit bull, but others I've seen. "I was walking my dog and saw a blue-nosed pit bull, so I crossed to the other side of the street."


The only thing I've heard related to color that I have any reason to give some credit to was on the Animal Planet reality show Pit bulls and Paroles. Tia, the owner/operator of the pit bull rescue, was doing an evaluation on a blue pit who'd become aggressive to dogs and people outside it's family for an owner looking for help managing the dog. She said something about a line of blue pits being bred with unstable temperaments. Not sure how linked to color that truly is but I'm inclined to give some value to her opinion based on her time working with and love of the breed.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Because "blue" got so popular, people were breeding Blues all "willy-nilly" with no regard for temperament. However, temperament is rarely an important consideration to back yard pit bull breeders anyway. 

Blue, white, red-nosed, blue-nosed... Makes no matter. Evaluate the dog in front of you. 

Also, be prepared for dog aggression, even if they are dog-friendly as puppies. Even if you teach bite inhibition. A good pit bull that was highly social with great bite inhibition at one year of age might become dog selective or dog aggessive at 3, no matter how hard you work. They myth of "dog as play-doh" is partially true, but genetics matter too. If you want a dog park dog or a dog that will play with lots of little friends, I would select a different breed or a fully mature dog who has already become who he was meant to be genetically. They aren't clay. A lot of who they (and we) are is located in the DNA!


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

trainingjunkie said:


> Because "blue" got so popular, people were breeding Blues all "willy-nilly" with no regard for temperament. However, temperament is rarely an important consideration to back yard pit bull breeders anyway.
> 
> Blue, white, red-nosed, blue-nosed... Makes no matter. Evaluate the dog in front of you.
> 
> Also, be prepared for dog aggression, even if they are dog-friendly as puppies. Even if you teach bite inhibition. A good pit bull that was highly social with great bite inhibition at one year of age might become dog selective or dog aggessive at 3, no matter how hard you work. They myth of "dog as play-doh" is partially true, but genetics matter too. If you want a dog park dog or a dog that will play with lots of little friends, I would select a different breed or a fully mature dog who has already become who he was meant to be genetically. They aren't clay. A lot of who they (and we) are is located in the DNA!



This. I think puppies are always a crap shoot but especially with Pits. Most Pits I've met are dog social as puppies and become dog selective as they reach maturity (usually around 3). Tyler was the most dog social dog I've ever had as a puppy. He loved nothing more than to romp around with other dogs. He is 4 now and I would classify him as dog selective. He had massive amounts of positive socialization but regardless he no longer wants to be in direct contact with strange dogs. If you're looking for certainty that DA won't happen, you're out of luck. Choosing a fully mature adult will help to understand their personality and temperament better.


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## SurfingGetsMeUp (Jun 11, 2012)

I have a 3 year old full pit female that is a blue and the sweetest thing. She is hard work though and she is high energy. I have to keep her running, working, and occupied or else she just has too much energy. She is a barn dog and is friendly around other dogs, cats, and people. She is super loyal, protective of me when need be, and beyond smart. Too smart for her own good sometimes lol. I worked hard to get her socialized and to have her be trained. She was hard work but now she is the best dog. I am so lucky to have her even though she thinks she is a 50 lb lap dog when you are on the couch.

My one year old pit/dane mix is large, high energy, and a good natured dog. I rescued him from death row at 4 months as the people gave him away because he was too big and destructive with household items. He looks like a pit with dane ears and really long legs. He has to be given attention, taken out to get rid of energy, and trained. He's super social, good with people/other dogs, and sweet. He is turning into a really good dog and he is so lovable. 

Pits are the product of their owners. They require large amounts of training and socialization. They can be great dogs and they can be nasty dogs because of their owners/upbringing. I have fostered pits for years and they are great dogs. They are high energy dogs as well and that is a problem for many owners down the line.


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## magicmike (Jun 8, 2012)

PatchworkRobot said:


> they will do whatever they can to please their person. They're ridiculously missunderstood and it's a shame.


I totally agree on how people judge dogs just by their look.


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Sloth said:


> Thanks again for all the great replies. I'm unsure about getting a pit puppy so you can "guide" its temperament...it sounds like (from what I've read on here and other websites, not personal experience) pit puppies can be very dog social when they're younger, then "turn on" after a year or so. The Bad Rap website says few pits are truly dog aggressive, but few are dog social. Most are somewhere in between. I wouldn't want to get a puppy and gamble over what it's going to be.
> 
> I've seen it mentioned ALL the time, I was almost wondering if there's a misconception that it means something more than just color. I've never seen a certain color associated with a certain temperament on any of my reading, but some of the ways I've heard people describe their pits - it's like they think there's a connection. Not the person here who talked about their red-nosed pit bull, but others I've seen. "I was walking my dog and saw a blue-nosed pit bull, so I crossed to the other side of the street."


Yup that's exactly true of any dog really. My Boxer was raised in a great environment, socialized, properly trained and still developed fear aggression. Among other issues. Bybs! 
When you have an adult dog you have a much better idea. You can work with or against your dogs genetics but you can't simply remove a genetic trait by raising that dog in a particular fashion. 

Sometimes yes I've heard red nose Pits are the most aggressive people are just ignorant. I recently made a thread on another fotum I was told that and inbred Pits will be retarded and have a bad temperament. Holds no truth but I sarcastically said I should be worried about my dogs. 

I've also heard red nose are fighters, blue nose are better pets, all red noses are curs, and the opposite all black nose are curs, red nose dogs are hyper, I've heard their dumb, red nose have poor health, whites have poor health, someone here posted a link to a FB page where a poster commented on a dog saying chocolate is caused by a defect and have health problems...I'm sure I'm still yet to hear everything. One thing people do they meet a dog of X color and general all of that color, makes no sense. 

You also meet people who act as if red nose and blue nose are types or even breeds.

Due to all the blue bullies and the fact that blue pits are mostly AST descendants they get a rap for being mellow, less aggressive and lazy/lack drive. It's certainly not true of all of them. I've known pure AST which were both drivey and energetic, some still carry levels of dog aggression as well. 



hanksimon said:


> Someone else can talk to the genetics of white, albino Pits... but I don't think it has anything to do with personality.
> 
> One thing that can happen is that a socialized Pit can get over-excited and bite hard during play. It is not aggression, but it hurts and can cause bloodshed, nonetheless. The cure is simple - Bite Inhibition and training during play to reduce the tendency to get over-excited. A good Pit will self-handicap, play while on its back, and will slime the starch out of smaller dogs... but no harm.


There are not any albino Pits (though albino is considered a DQ). I don't believe a gene for true albino has been found in dogs. White and true albino are 2 different things. 

White is recessive, you can get near solid white or solid white out of solid color parents. There is said to be plus and minus modifiers you clearly see varied amounts of white from one Pit to the next. 

It has no bearing in personality. I've had whites with great temperament and varied temperament and drives.

I've owned a lot of Pits don't have an over excited bite inhibition problem. I've had a couple times older pups play rough here or there. In general its not a problem. 



dagwall said:


> The only thing I've heard related to color that I have any reason to give some credit to was on the Animal Planet reality show Pit bulls and Paroles. Tia, the owner/operator of the pit bull rescue, was doing an evaluation on a blue pit who'd become aggressive to dogs and people outside it's family for an owner looking for help managing the dog. She said something about a line of blue pits being bred with unstable temperaments. Not sure how linked to color that truly is but I'm inclined to give some value to her opinion based on her time working with and love of the breed.


I saw the episode.
She was referring to all the bully blue breeders and the like which breed for color and little else except for large size. Temperament and health suffers. Then you have a couple kennels breeding for HA intentionally. 

Her words shouldn't be misconstrued to mean anything else. 

If you breed dogs with bad temperament you will get dogs with bad temperament of whatever color you are breeding. There is no link to the color. I know a black bitch that was highly aggressive, almost succeeded in attacking me. She had a large litter with enough of the lot having temperament problems and went on to produce more temperamentally unsound dogs in the next generations. This doesn't mean black and white Pits are unstable because these dogs are black.


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