# Meet Zorro, the amazing......Groenendael? Border Collie?



## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

We rescued Zorro a month ago. We were told he was a border collie mix, or maybe purebred. BUT, while he is the right size and has a bit of a BC face (and one ear), he's solid black, and his tail lacks the fluff and hook shape of a border collie. At the BC forums, they suggested he's a belgian shepherd - groenendael. I'd actually never heard of it, but looking around online I see a lot of young ones that look a lot like Zorro....but those are the ones that look the most like border collies with their shorter faces and floppy ears. At about 2 yrs old, he's a mere 35 lbs, a far cry from the 45-75lbs that the google machine tells me is typical of an adult groenendael. So, what do you think? What do you see in the face of this truly brilliant little dog-smartest dog I've ever met.

PS, to complicate matters a bit more, the rescue trimmed some of the fluffy hair below his ears, and I think some on his tail and hind legs may have worn off in the kennel.

Discovering the magic of the treat ball...





Awkward face


Happy face


Lizard hunting


It moved!


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## wespom (Aug 18, 2013)

awwwwww. What a beautiful boy


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## jaysalge (Sep 14, 2013)

he is cute and i like hem


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

Ooh, he's stunning!!


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## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

thanks, we are quite taken with him. He learns some tricks on the first try! Unfortunately, he came to us with heartworm, so we won't have any action shots before the treatment is over. 

Any thoughts on what breed(s) he might be?

thanks.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Such a pretty boy!!!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

He is not a Groenendael, none in him at all. I would say he is mostly BC if not all BC.


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## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> He is not a Groenendael, none in him at all. I would say he is mostly BC if not all BC.


Others have commented to me that his tail, snout, and stance are more shepherd-like. What do you think of that?

Thanks!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

zorro said:


> Others have commented to me that his tail, snout, and stance are more shepherd-like. What do you think of that?
> 
> Thanks!


If there is shepherd, it's German Shepherd, not Belgian.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

He could very well be all BC and I see it. I don't see any Shepherd. BCs come in all colors and many, many coat and body types. They aren't all black and white and don't all have a hook tail.


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## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

Kayota said:


> He could very well be all BC and I see it. I don't see any Shepherd. BCs come in all colors and many, many coat and body types. They aren't all black and white and don't all have a hook tail.


good points. I didn't realize they didn't all have the hooked tail. I'll have to google some more. I know about their coats. If Zorro is an ALL-BLACK BC then he is an exceptionally rare gem (even if he weren't so awesome already). I read that all black happens, but no pics of purebreds that are all black. On the other hand, I find several BC mixes that are all black, and some look very much like Zorro (like this one , or this one could be his twin)....on the other hand, if you look for a couple minutes on google images, there are several groenendaels that look just like him too (e.g. this one )! 

I have a doggie-DNA test in progress, I'll post when I get results, but still very interested in the opinions of the community. Thanks for posting!


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I didn't vote because I see more Shepherd mix and your poll didn't have that in there. Your dog is very nice looking.


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## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> I didn't vote because I see more Shepherd mix and your poll didn't have that in there. Your dog is very nice looking.


just kind of a general shepherd mix? ok. i've heard that before too. I should've put that in the list.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I see all or mostly BC! Cute!


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## jersey_gray (Dec 8, 2011)

He's beautiful.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Looks like a black GSD mix to me, which would be fairly common in rescues as well.  Perhaps he's a black GSD/BC mix?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Mostly BC, I would think. I do know some BCs (including one in real life) that are allllmost solid colored but they have some white on their chests and toes.

Definitely not a belgian in any way though.


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## MaDeuce (Sep 5, 2013)

Long Stock Coat German Shepherd Mix. Possibly mixed with BC. But this is more a long stock coat GSD rather than BC. Look at his back and overall body posture. I have never seen a BC with a back like that. I have seen, however, working line GSD's like that. 
Definitely a mix though.


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## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

*RESULTS ARE IN!*


This is strange, I gotta say, but I guess I just don't have the expert eye needed to parse a complex mix. I've been convinced by one person or another that Zorro is a Border Collie, a Groenendael puppy, and a long coat german shepherd. Well, there are a lot of unknowns on one side of his lineage, but most clearly, he is a german shepherd and lab mix!


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## MaDeuce (Sep 5, 2013)

Groenendal is not to far off but they have a different body typ and head. So has the BC. 

You can definitely see a GSD though. The head and especially the body type is prominent for a GSD. However, I'm not sure if I see a Lab but there is def. something else in the dog. However, the majority is GSD.


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## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

well, the lab is only showing up on the results so prominently because it was something they could pick out of the mix mess. it says GSD-Lab mix but really that means 50% GSD, 12.5% lab. So, I won't be telling people he's a GSD lab mix, I'll just say a GSD mix.

i'd bet what happened here is that someone had a female purebred GSD, and a daring young stray found his way into her yard. Then the purebred GSD owner turned the mix puppies over to the shelter. The rescuer picked up zorro from the shelter the day he was scheduled to be put down.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Those DNA tests are far from accurate... I wouldn't pay a penny for one. Just saying.


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## zorro (Sep 14, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Those DNA tests are far from accurate... I wouldn't pay a penny for one. Just saying.


I think you're wrong. just sayin. And for the record, I'm not someone who watched CSI once and now buy into anything that says "DNA" on it - I teach genetics to college students. But, you don't have to take my word for it...there was a nice series of tests by a third party that you can read about here: http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=23206


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## MaDeuce (Sep 5, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Those DNA tests are far from accurate... I wouldn't pay a penny for one. Just saying.


In his case, with the Shepherd mix. I'd say it's accurate simply from what you can see in the picture.


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## Vicky88 (Jan 29, 2012)

Beautiful dog. Maybe a Bc cross or all BC. Also his weight is the right size for a BC.


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