# Primal freeze dried & dry food questions?



## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

As of right now I am feeding my girl a mix of Merrick dry food and Grandma Lucys freeze dried, I've been pretty happy with it and she seems to love it. But I've heard so many good things about feeding a raw diet so recently I've been looking into it and have been seriously considering switching from the Grandma Lucys to Primal freeze dried raw and was wanting to hear some opinions, reviews etc. Besides all the good things I've heard about a raw diet, Primal seems to be a much higher quality food than the Grandma Lucy's with mostly organic ingredients which is what attracted me to it in the first place.

Mostly my biggest concern on switching is it seems most who feed the Primal freeze dried feed solely that, I'm wanting something I can feed with a combo of dry food (for now, anyways.) I'm not sure if people don't do it because they simply prefer to feed only the Primal or if there's other reasoning behind it.. do any of you feed Primal freeze dried along with dry? Unfortunately right now as much as I'd like to feed solely that I'm unable due to the cost. 

If it is safe to feed both, would it still be beneficial even with a combo feeding of dry?

Have any of you fed the Primal and been pleased with it? What benefits have you seen?
Thanks guys!


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Ivyrose said:


> As of right now I am feeding my girl a mix of Merrick dry food and Grandma Lucys freeze dried, I've been pretty happy with it and she seems to love it. But I've heard so many good things about feeding a raw diet so recently I've been looking into it and have been seriously considering switching from the Grandma Lucys to Primal freeze dried raw and was wanting to hear some opinions, reviews etc. Besides all the good things I've heard about a raw diet, Primal seems to be a much higher quality food than the Grandma Lucy's with mostly organic ingredients which is what attracted me to it in the first place.
> 
> Mostly my biggest concern on switching is it seems most who feed the Primal freeze dried feed solely that, I'm wanting something I can feed with a combo of dry food (for now, anyways.) I'm not sure if people don't do it because they simply prefer to feed only the Primal or if there's other reasoning behind it.. do any of you feed Primal freeze dried along with dry? Unfortunately right now as much as I'd like to feed solely that I'm unable due to the cost.
> 
> ...


I've fed the Primal to my cats and I did like it... However have you looked into Stella and Chewys freeze dried for dogs? Big bags are two more ounces than primal I believe and maybe a dollar or two more expensive but they are 95 percent meats and Primal is only in the 70s.... My two love the Stella and Chewys rabbit. 

On the combo note I've heard of people feeding both raw and kibble and I don't see a problem with it. Had a customer come in the other day and he's feeding Natural Balance Lamb and Brown Rice with Primal Frozen Lamb.... :/ but he swears his dogs are doing amazing on it so it must be ok lol 


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

I've heard of the Stella and Chewys, but I'll definitely be looking into it some more now. Thank you for the response I really just wanted to hear if others were doing a combo feeding!


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Many customers with larger dogs do a combo diet at my work. They usually feed raw (frozen kind) in the morning, and kibble at night. But with freeze dried I know it doesn't matter whether or not you separate the meals (and there has been discussion of whether or not raw being mixed with kibble in the same meal even makes a difference at all).


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Yea I work at a big store in Anaheim and we primarily focus on raw diets. We carry several and I do like Stella and Chewys freeze dried the most because like I said its 95 percent meat.  more actual meat the better. 


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Ivyrose said:


> As of right now I am feeding my girl a mix of Merrick dry food and Grandma Lucys freeze dried, I've been pretty happy with it and she seems to love it. But I've heard so many good things about feeding a raw diet so recently I've been looking into it and have been seriously considering switching from the Grandma Lucys to Primal freeze dried raw and was wanting to hear some opinions, reviews etc. Besides all the good things I've heard about a raw diet, Primal seems to be a much higher quality food than the Grandma Lucy's with mostly organic ingredients which is what attracted me to it in the first place.
> 
> Mostly my biggest concern on switching is it seems most who feed the Primal freeze dried feed solely that, I'm wanting something I can feed with a combo of dry food (for now, anyways.) I'm not sure if people don't do it because they simply prefer to feed only the Primal or if there's other reasoning behind it.. do any of you feed Primal freeze dried along with dry? Unfortunately right now as much as I'd like to feed solely that I'm unable due to the cost.
> 
> ...


Do not mix kibble and raw, they digest at a different rate.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Sparkles123 said:


> Do not mix kibble and raw, they digest at a different rate.


This is often said, but no one knows if it is true.

Freezedried raw is different from plain raw, or so Nature's Variety Instinct says. They have "raw boost" pieces that you can mix with their kibble -- it's freeze dried raw pellets that you can add to the dry dog food.

Also you can feed both, just not at same meals (if you go by the digesting at different rate). People say raw is 4-6 hours' digestion, so if you feed it in the morning, it would essentially be safe to feed kibble later on in the evening.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

Thanks taquitos! The alternating between each meal is definitely what I'm considering! The more research I've done today the more I've also read that they digest at different rates.. but as you said, I haven't fount anything that really proves that so I'm skeptical to believe it but hesitant to mix them just to be safe.
Which brand would you personally recommend? Primal, Stella and Chewy's or Nature's variety?

Thanks everyone!


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Ivyrose said:


> Thanks taquitos! The alternating between each meal is definitely what I'm considering! The more research I've done today the more I've also read that they digest at different rates.. but as you said, I haven't fount anything that really proves that so I'm skeptical to believe it but hesitant to mix them just to be safe.
> Which brand would you personally recommend? Primal, Stella and Chewy's or Nature's variety?
> 
> Thanks everyone!


I like Stella & Chewy's for the freeze dried raw. As Zilla said, it has more meat than Primal  I'm sure Nature's Variety Instinct is good too -- the only thing that makes me a little worried is that they source their meat from China (well, their rabbit meat at least). Stella & Chewy's is 100% American from what I know, so that's always good to think about 

There are other options too, like ZiwiPeak, which is an air dried raw. You don't add water to it, though. I prefer freeze dried over air dried for this reason -- that you can add water and make it moisture rich 

Orijen also has a freeze dried line too -- you could check it out. It has a lot of meat as well


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

Thank you!  I definitely want something 100% American, I just don't trust meat sources from any other countries.

I heard about Ziwipeak but seen that it was air dried and wasn't really as interested, I really like the moisture benefits from freeze dried and Ivy seems to prefer a moist food to a dry one.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Natures Variety does make a freeze dried meal now but it comes in tiny bags and its way more expensive than Stella's.... We just started carrying it the other day... Orijen's we are getting sometime soon. I'm sure it's off the wall expensive :/..... 

As far as rabbit from china. I read that their frozen raw comes from china and their canned and kibble rabbit comes from France. Dumb I know. Lol so their freeze dried rabbit I have no idea.... However I also read their rabbit from china is triple tested or whatever. I would be more inclined to trust Natures Variety rabbit than a cheap food or treat from china..... I've feed it before. But now that I started using Primals frozen rabbit I don't really need the NVs. 

What I really like is the Grandma Lucy's PurePerformance freeze dried meals. Not as much meat as Stella and Chewys but at its price you can ditch the kibble all together. The big bag of chicken costs 63 dollars in my store but its actually 51 pounds of food. Maybe something to look at as a combo with Stella's instead of kibble  


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Zilla said:


> Natures Variety does make a freeze dried meal now but it comes in tiny bags and its way more expensive than Stella's.... We just started carrying it the other day... Orijen's we are getting sometime soon. I'm sure it's off the wall expensive :/.....
> 
> As far as rabbit from china. I read that their frozen raw comes from china and their canned and kibble rabbit comes from France. Dumb I know. Lol so their freeze dried rabbit I have no idea.... However I also read their rabbit from china is triple tested or whatever. I would be more inclined to trust Natures Variety rabbit than a cheap food or treat from china..... I've feed it before. But now that I started using Primals frozen rabbit I don't really need the NVs.
> 
> ...


Yeah Stella's here is really expensive -- like way more expensive than Orijen (I'm in Canada). Maybe it's different over there.

Really wish we had as much as you guys over here though!


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Yeah Stella's here is really expensive -- like way more expensive than Orijen (I'm in Canada). Maybe it's different over there.
> 
> Really wish we had as much as you guys over here though!


Canadians make the good stuff though. Lol I'd like to have access to all your brands


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## domika (Jul 1, 2012)

I have mixed raw and kibble plenty of times. I'll throw some raw thawed venison as a topper for kibble or mixed in with honest kitchen food and never see any stomach upset. I can see this being a problem in dogs with sensitive stomachs but that's it.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

Zilla said:


> Natures Variety does make a freeze dried meal now but it comes in tiny bags and its way more expensive than Stella's.... We just started carrying it the other day... Orijen's we are getting sometime soon. I'm sure it's off the wall expensive :/.....
> 
> As far as rabbit from china. I read that their frozen raw comes from china and their canned and kibble rabbit comes from France. Dumb I know. Lol so their freeze dried rabbit I have no idea.... However I also read their rabbit from china is triple tested or whatever. I would be more inclined to trust Natures Variety rabbit than a cheap food or treat from china..... I've feed it before. But now that I started using Primals frozen rabbit I don't really need the NVs.
> 
> ...


I definitely think I'm gonna go with the Stella and Chewys, its definitely expensive but I really try to keep away from any foods from other countries (with the exception of Canada, as I'm completely okay with food from there.) So I'll save myself the worry lol.

I actually have just heard of a few people combo feeding the Stellas and Grandma Lucys as well as l The honest kitchen, as of right now Ivy eats a mix of dry and Grandma Lucys Artisian mixed together in each meal so I really like the thought of mixing the Stellas and GL together and just eliminating kibble completely.

I haven't read too much into the Pureperformance GL( but I should!), how do your dogs do on that? 

Thanks again everyone!  definitely apprecite all the input


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Ivyrose said:


> I definitely think I'm gonna go with the Stella and Chewys, its definitely expensive but I really try to keep away from any foods from other countries (with the exception of Canada, as I'm completely okay with food from there.) So I'll save myself the worry lol.
> 
> I actually have just heard of a few people combo feeding the Stellas and Grandma Lucys as well as l The honest kitchen, as of right now Ivy eats a mix of dry and Grandma Lucys Artisian mixed together in each meal so I really like the thought of mixing the Stellas and GL together and just eliminating kibble completely.
> 
> ...


I currently do not have a dog but a huge majority of my customers love the PurePerformance. We sell out of it a lot. I personally like it better because its lower carbs and no potatoes. Honest Kitchen and Artisan look like a box of instant potatoes to me. Not a fan lol but anyways a lot of people tell me their dogs LOVE it and they do SO well on it. Even got a few who use it with dogs that have medical issues and they do great. So in my opinion it's excellent stuff. Honest Kitchen is to expensive in my opinion. Not that it's not good stuff but why spend more when you can have lower carbs and no potatoes??? 


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

taquitos said:


> There are other options too, like ZiwiPeak, which is an air dried raw. You don't add water to it, though. I prefer freeze dried over air dried for this reason -- that you can add water and make it moisture rich


...you can add water to anything. I find it hilarious that companies market freeze dried dehydrated foods as 'high moisture'

The main relevant difference is that air drying deteriorates nutrients more than freeze drying but the freeze drying process is much more expensive. Proper freeze drying is just a very resource heavy process so freeze dried foods with the same quality ingredients will always cost a lot more.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

Zilla, that's good to know! She's almost finished with her Artisan bag now so I think I'll order a bag of pureperformance, since locally that line of GL isn't sold. Thanks for all the info!

Zhaor, your absolutely right.. but, for picky eaters like mine the consistency of water added to say a hard food versus a dehydrated food is a big difference. She really prefers a moist food (dehydrated, canned) versus water on kibble.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Zilla said:


> Canadians make the good stuff though. Lol I'd like to have access to all your brands
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Hahaha we have like... what, Champion Pet Foods and Petcurean here XD Besides that there are some little companies here and there, but really, nowhere near the amount of awesome things you guys have in the US 



zhaor said:


> ...you can add water to anything. I find it hilarious that companies market freeze dried dehydrated foods as 'high moisture'
> 
> The main relevant difference is that air drying deteriorates nutrients more than freeze drying but the freeze drying process is much more expensive. Proper freeze drying is just a very resource heavy process so freeze dried foods with the same quality ingredients will always cost a lot more.


You really can't with Ziwi unless you are mixing wet food with it, in which case you have to be SUPER careful to not overfeed since it's so concentrated. Freeze dried/dehydrated foods are much easier to rehydrate. Of course it's not "high in moisture" before you rehydrate it lol.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

You can add water to ziwipeak. Now it may not absorb it as quickly as freeze dried foods but you can still put both ziwi and water in a bowl together, and quite frankly, that's enough to get a lot of dogs to drink more when eating. It doesn't really matter if the water is absorbed into the food or if it's drank separately.

btw I can try to find the link later today or someone else can try to google it but there was a study done with raw, canned, and kibble to compare the idea of moisture in food. All dogs had water readily available and there was no noticeable difference in hydration levels between the three groups. I still add water to everything (including raw and canned) just to 'over hydrate' slightly and ensure my dog is well hydrated.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

zhaor said:


> You can add water to ziwipeak. Now it may not absorb it as quickly as freeze dried foods but you can still put both ziwi and water in a bowl together, and quite frankly, that's enough to get a lot of dogs to drink more when eating. It doesn't really matter if the water is absorbed into the food or if it's drank separately.
> 
> btw I can try to find the link later today or someone else can try to google it but there was a study done with raw, canned, and kibble to compare the idea of moisture in food. All dogs had water readily available and there was no noticeable difference in hydration levels between the three groups. I still add water to everything (including raw and canned) just to 'over hydrate' slightly and ensure my dog is well hydrated.


With the OP's dogs it does matter since they're so picky.

And I do remember you posting that. It was really interesting how there wasn't a noticeable difference, even with cats... which I find contradictory (at least with cats) considering so many cats end up with sterile cystitis and kidney problems from being fed dry food all their lives VS wet/raw fed cats (my cat being one of the suffers of sterile cystitis -- ever since switching to wet/raw he hasn't had a single flare up compared to before when he had like three flare ups in three months??). I do notice a difference in how much dogs drink water on raw vs kibble -- my dogs hardly drink water, but dogs eating kibble drank more... but I think dogs know how to make up the deficit for sure


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

taquitos said:


> With the OP's dogs it does matter since they're so picky.


Hmm yea I missed the OP's post. oops :redface:

I can't honestly say I've looked too much into the cost of commercial raw. In theory though, I would expect all the freeze dried foods to be the most expensive, because like I mentioned, freeze drying is just more expensive to do. So since cost is still an issue, I'm wondering if the OP would be better off with commercial raw?

Or of course there's always something like PMR.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

zhaor said:


> Hmm yea I missed the OP's post. oops :redface:
> 
> I can't honestly say I've looked too much into the cost of commercial raw. In theory though, I would expect all the freeze dried foods to be the most expensive, because like I mentioned, freeze drying is just more expensive to do. So since cost is still an issue, I'm wondering if the OP would be better off with commercial raw?
> 
> Or of course there's always something like PMR.


Haha yeah. I find most commercial raw way too expensive! PMR is so much cheaper... but soooo time consuming >_< Of course, if youa re doing half kibble, it's much easier...


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Ivyrose said:


> Zilla, that's good to know! She's almost finished with her Artisan bag now so I think I'll order a bag of pureperformance, since locally that line of GL isn't sold. Thanks for all the info!
> 
> Zhaor, your absolutely right.. but, for picky eaters like mine the consistency of water added to say a hard food versus a dehydrated food is a big difference. She really prefers a moist food (dehydrated, canned) versus water on kibble.


I've been feeding mainly the Grandma Lucy's PureFormance Chicken for 2 bags now (and 1 bag of the Artisan Chicken before that) and topping with some raw (Stella and Chewy's, Bravo, and some supermarket meats like chicken chunks or beef liver, sometimes a raw egg). It is adding up to be fairly comparable in price to the top dry foods and he DOES get more water this way. He doesn't drink much (barely any) water during the day but I can guarantee that he's getting at least a full cup of water with his breakfast and dinner. 

I agree on the kibble texture thing-- I find that it can put off some dogs when the kibble get smooshy even though they like the dehydrated stuff all smooshy. 
One thing I discovered in mixing kibble and GL is to re-hydrated the GL first and then top with kibble so the kibble doesn't get smooshy. If I put both in the bowl before adding water, it seems to be less appealing to the dogs.

For the human perspective, I think warm wet kibble smells disgusting but the GL actually smells pretty good when re-hydrated. A lot easier on the nose first thing in the morning 

Some people use raw goats milk in part to rehydrate GL or THK and find it does really well for dogs with sensitive stomachs and those with skin issues. Also makes it super yummy it seems.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Shell said:


> Some people use raw goats milk in part to rehydrate GL or THK and find it does really well for dogs with sensitive stomachs and those with skin issues. Also makes it super yummy it seems.


I've been using Honest Kitchens new "Pro Bloom" goats milk to rehydrate my cats Stella and Chewys with and they LOVE it. Nice soupy high protein meal for them 




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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Just a quick question, you guys... How much is Stella & Chewy's across the border? We just got it in our store yesterday, and the prices... omg!!!! I wanted to try it because the store dog went absolutely nuts for it... but it's like 13.99 for the small bag, and that would last like 7 days for Meeko or something O_O


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## domika (Jul 1, 2012)

A 6oz bag of Stella and Chewy's is $12-$14 and a 16oz bag is $29-$33, so seems to be about the same. I do love that it's made in Wisconsin and I like to support local when I can. (It's relatively local for me living in Minnesota). Also, Primal freeze dried is the same cost as Stella's here, but has a little bit smaller bags, so Stellas ends up being cheaper than Primal, and I like meat content better. I think I'm gonna pick up a bag to try after I finish off this new Orijen freeze dried food.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

We use frozen Primal (sometimes freeze-dried) for one meal. But with a big dog, it's just not cost effective in the long run. We'd be going through a big bag a day, pretty much. We did try Stella & Chewy's, but Annabel wasn't as enthusiastic as she was with the Primal. I've been trying to get a few on rotation, though, so she doesn't get bored. I really do like Primal, though, especially the frozen. And so does my pup, which is the important thing.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

Well after driving myself about nuts I decided to go with Stella anf Chewys frozen and freeze dried (will alternate between the two.) And mix it with grndma Lucys, the cost really won't be that much more than what I have been paying for her kibble/grandma and a alternate of can. For the benefit she will be getting any slight difference in price will be well worth it. I'd eventually like to feed her a complete raw diet myself but for now I'm happy with this and I'm sure she will be as well.

Shell, I have been rehydrating with raw goats milk for the past few months and its made a huge difference, Ivy has had bad allergies since she was a puppy which caused frequent ear infections, since starting on the goats milk she hasn't had an ear infection and has hardly any allergy issues, she also seems more excited about her meals. Definitely a great product! 

Zilla, I seen the pro bloom the other day. Do you know if its about the same as the raw goats milk? Might be something good to have in hand.

Taquitos, the cheapest I have fount the small bags is for 10.49 on chewy.com


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Ivyrose said:


> Well after driving myself about nuts I decided to go with Stella anf Chewys frozen and freeze dried (will alternate between the two.) And mix it with grndma Lucys, the cost really won't be that much more than what I have been paying for her kibble/grandma and a alternate of can. For the benefit she will be getting any slight difference in price will be well worth it. I'd eventually like to feed her a complete raw diet myself but for now I'm happy with this and I'm sure she will be as well.
> 
> Shell, I have been rehydrating with raw goats milk for the past few months and its made a huge difference, Ivy has had bad allergies since she was a puppy which caused frequent ear infections, since starting on the goats milk she hasn't had an ear infection and has hardly any allergy issues, she also seems more excited about her meals. Definitely a great product!
> 
> ...


I mean I think it's the closest thing your going to get to raw goats milk. All the other products I've seen they have added stuff to it. The Pro Bloom is pretty straight forward


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I have read that for pre made raw, the fat should be around half of protein. Unless its changed, S & C is almost equal. 

For anyone feeding Primal & Bravo, make sure you know if you're feeding the complete ones or supplemental feeding.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

I just got her new Grandma Lucys (pureperformance chicken this time) and some of the freeze dried Stella and Chewys in the mail, and I'm trying to figure out about how much to feed for each meal? She's 45 pounds, I'm wanting to feed about 75% GL and 25% S&C.. anyone know about how much I should be feeding?


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