# Rescue Greyhounds



## Wicket (Aug 21, 2011)

As one of my "future dogs" to one day own, I really want a rescue greyhound. Has anyone adopted one of these rescue dogs and how are they? What are your experiences with a rescue greyhound?


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I've been thinking about a retired greyhound, too. I started a thread not too long ago: greyhounds and received some very helpful advice. I'm also interested to see any new information that posted here.


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## Wicket (Aug 21, 2011)

Cool, I will check out your thread  I meant a lady with a couple of retired greyhounds a year ago. They were so beautiful and well-mannered. I should of asked her more questions >.<


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## momtolabs (May 27, 2012)

I dont own one but met one is petsmart! So calm and loved everyone. The owner said she enjoyed her daily walks but also laying on the couch sleeping is one of her favorite activities,lol.


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

My husband and I considered a greyhound, but then I read up on them on a rescue site in the Atlanta area. Many have issues around small dogs b/c they're bred to chase small creatures. Also, because they're sight hounds, they must be kept on a leash when not in a fenced enclosure - no exceptions, again, because of their tendency to chase anything that moves. If we didn't already have a small poodle, we probably would have gotten one - I love the fact that they can be couch potatoes, but also need some exercise! Some are small dog tolerant, and they apparently get adopted fast!


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

As with any breed there are some downsides to greyhounds, but overall they are a great fairly healthy and long lived breed. They are a large breed which means they have access to every thing from the floor to the counter. Retired racers have a tendency to be dog aggressive and go after anything smaller than they are. Greyhounds also have thin skin that tears easily, so rough play may end up with a trip to the vet.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Such calm, gentle creatures, if I had a huge fenced yard I would have one .


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I considered getting one for my next dog for some time, but then realised I would want something a bit more trainable. Not that greyhounds can't be trained of course, but I want something that was bred to work with me, like a rottie or malinois or something along those lines. So depends what's important in a dog. If all you want is a laid back pet I think greyhounds are great, but if you really enjoy the training aspect of dog keeping I wouldn't get one.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

They're on my list for next dog, but I may have to change that if they're really that prone to chasing small dogs! I had no idea! GSD was my other option but that would likely be a mostly-shepherd mix from the shelter. I'll have to make sure I ask about small dogs specifically if I do get one.


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## Rid#### (Jul 22, 2011)

This is a forum that only wants to hear the thing's they agree with.
If you have other idea's then don't say them or they will ban you.
This is the truth.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Funny, this thread started 5 days after our very 1st retired Greyhound here for boarding. He's 12 yrs old and very nice in kennel. The owner said they had dropped lead on him once and he was gone. Their young son chased after and got lucky cause dog stopped to investigate a dog in yard or he would still be running.

I can see how accidents could happen because he actually is so quiet he/they could lull a person into a false sense of security. As I said my 1st and only visit with one.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

animalcraker said:


> As with any breed there are some downsides to greyhounds, but overall they are a great fairly healthy and long lived breed. They are a large breed which means they have access to every thing from the floor to the counter. *Retired racers have a tendency to be dog aggressive* and go after anything smaller than they are. Greyhounds also have thin skin that tears easily, so rough play may end up with a trip to the vet.


Can anyone elaborate on this? My understanding is that greys are generally good with other dogs of approximately the same size as they have been living with trackmates. Yes, many do chase small furry critters - including other dogs - as that is what they have been bred and trained to do, but that a tendency to be dog aggressive is not common.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I've heard that they tend to be good with other dogs, due to living in kennels with other dogs, so they are well socialised with other dogs and people. I can't imagine that someone would keep a dog aggressive greyhound around for long.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

cookieface said:


> Can anyone elaborate on this? My understanding is that greys are generally good with other dogs of approximately the same size as they have been living with trackmates. Yes, many do chase small furry critters - including other dogs - as that is what they have been bred and trained to do, but that a tendency to be dog aggressive is not common.


A former neighbor of ours has 2 retired greys and he works with a local rescue. Whenever we would pass each other during dog walks, he always moved off the sidewalk to keep his dogs from getting too close to Molly. He said he didn't trust them with small dogs because of the small dog aggression issue. Once his wife was walking their two and he was walking two that they were watching for the day & one of those snarled and snapped at Molly. 
In terms of exercise, he said a 45 minute walk in the morning did the trick and they just happily lazed around for the rest of the day.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

This is a breed we'd like to bring into our home. We have a fenced in yard, while one of our dogs is short legged, he's not little. I've never heard of a dog aggressive retired racer but I suppose it's possible.


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## amosmoses89 (Jun 19, 2011)

My brother and his wife adopted two retired racing greyhounds and they are very sweet dogs. They came completely house broken and crate trained, but they had to be taught to walk up and down stairs, walk on carpet, and other things that they had never encountered before. They wear their muzzles when they take them to the greyhound park, but they have never shown any aggression towards anything. Argos escaped one day from the house and wandered down to the local elementary school down the road and just got a bunch of lovings from the kids until someone read the address on his collar and took him home. When they got married in April they had the reception at the house and I was truly amazed at how well behaved they were. There were several little kids running around and playing with them and they just walked around then laid down and went to sleep.

The one thing that drove me nuts about them was the counter surfing and the stealing. The dogs have no boundaries and will eat anything anyone leaves on the counter. The only safe spot in their house was on top of the fridge, in the toaster oven, and in the microwave. And if you had any purse of bag Argos would go through and steal something out to move it about the house.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

animalcraker said:


> Retired racers have a tendency to be dog aggressive and go after anything smaller than they are.


This is realy a misconception. Retired races are rarely _aggressive_ with other dogs as such. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. 

However, many retired racers that have actively trained for racing - again with some exceptions - have a _highly developed prey drive_ (not the same thing as dog aggression). And that will manifest itself with more or less ANY *small* creature - whether it is a cat, a small dog, or just about anything else. 

Greyhound adoption groups test all incomng greys for cat tolerance, small dog tolerance, and genereral temperament. However, if you have another dog of any size in the house, they will insist that you come in for a meet between your current dog and the specific grey that you are interested in. There is a lot of individual compatibility that is involved.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

lil_fuzzy said:


> I've heard that they tend to be good with other dogs, due to living in kennels with other dogs, so they are well socialised with other dogs and people. I can't imagine that someone would keep a dog aggressive greyhound around for long.


Retired racers have lived with other greys their entire life. Many of them actually *want* the company of other dogs of about the same size. and do better in a household where there is another medium-to-large dog for them to interact with. Small dogs are another thing, however. 

You are correct in a sense about general dog aggression. It's very uncommon in racing greyhounds. But it is not completely unheard of. Greys who "interfere" (read "go after other greys") on the track are not kept for racing. However, some do end up in the adoption chain for that very reason. All the adoption groups test for tolerance with other dogs, as well as for cat and small dog tolerance.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Kayota said:


> They're on my list for next dog, but I may have to change that if they're really that prone to chasing small dogs! I had no idea! GSD was my other option but that would likely be a mostly-shepherd mix from the shelter. I'll have to make sure I ask about small dogs specifically if I do get one.


I don't think GSD mixes have any particular issues with small dogs like greyhounds do. Obvs, any dog can be dog aggressive or just not like your adorable Roxie, but I don't think it's a breed specific thing, unless the other side of the mix is greyhound maybe.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

We've interacted with Greys that are up for adoption at PetsMart, and my neighbor has had two.

I think the most remarkable trait is how placid they are. The ones that we interacted with had no problems with Yorkies or with my 60 lb dog. The Greys were curious and interested, although one did give a snarl.... I attributed that to the possibility of having a grouch in any crowd  I've never seen one off leash, but I can imagine that they might run or chase, as a sight hound. 

Most of them were mature or seniors, and happy to sleep a lot. I never saw one sitting, either standing or lying down. Not sure if that's a normal physical issue.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

cookieface said:


> Can anyone elaborate on this? My understanding is that greys are generally good with other dogs of approximately the same size as they have been living with trackmates. Yes, many do chase small furry critters - including other dogs - as that is what they have been bred and trained to do, but that a tendency to be dog aggressive is not common.


Um...no.

Ex-racers have no more tendency to be dog-aggressive then most other breeds. They can have prey drive, as any sighthound can, but that is VERY different from aggression in any form. They chase small moving things. They do not attack for no reason.

And many times, that prey drive can be managed. If an adopter were to work with a good adoption group, they can find a lower-prey dog that can live with cats, small dogs, and other small animals. I had two that lived with cats with no problem, and several fosters.

Exercise needs: low, compared to other large breeds. They do need some exercise, but most do well with a couple long walks every day, and a few shorter ones for potty breaks. A good, hard run a couple times a week is nice too, but not necessary for most Greyhounds off the track.

Many are great with other dogs, but remember, they have likely never seen any breed other than Greyhounds. This can result in the need for careful and thorough socialization with other breeds. Some do fine with other breeds, some don't.

They are trainable, contrary to popular opinion. They are hounds, though, and as such, bred to think for themselves, and not necessarily be in it to please their people. Many of us find this desirable - I like that trait. Many prefer a more biddable dog. No problem. To train any sighthound requires very positive methods, and little repetition. They get bored easily, and can't understand WHY you feel the need to repeat a million times! A few times is enough for them, several times a day. But I know of many people who have earned advanced obedience and agility titles on Greyhounds and other sighthounds. So it CAN be done - you just need to get creative!

Counter-surfing can be remedied. A good foster home will work on that. Same with training on stairs, cats, ceiling fans, shiny floors, and all the other things that can be tough for ex-racers.

They have been accustomed to crates on the track. This often makes house-training very easy. You have to get them to think of the whole house as their crate, and they are then unlikely to soil it. Over the years, the vast majority of our fosters have had no problem in house training. Only one has lifted his leg in the house, and I caught him in the act and corrected him. He learned very quickly.

I think I've answered all the questions asked here, but shoot more out there if you wish! I'll do my best! Also, two books that are great for the potential adopter: Adopting the Racing Greyhound by Cynthia Branigan and Retired Racing Greyhounds for Dummies by Lee Livingood. Both ladies are VERY well-versed in ex-racer adoptions. These are very informative books.

By the way, I just want to say, most ex-racers ARE NOT rescues. They have had a great life on the track, and are generally in no danger once they grade off (stop performing well, so the trainer ends their career). That's why you have not seen me use the term "rescue," except in this paragraph.

Foyerhawk has a lot of experience in the racing industry, and in adoptions. I'll let her know about this thread, too!


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

hanksimon said:


> We've interacted with Greys that are up for adoption at PetsMart, and my neighbor has had two.
> 
> I think the most remarkable trait is how placid they are. The ones that we interacted with had no problems with Yorkies or with my 60 lb dog. The Greys were curious and interested, although one did give a snarl.... I attributed that to the possibility of having a grouch in any crowd  I've never seen one off leash, but I can imagine that they might run or chase, as a sight hound.
> 
> Most of them were mature or seniors, and happy to sleep a lot. I never saw one sitting, either standing or lying down. Not sure if that's a normal physical issue.



Nope - most can sit, despite common perception. It's a little uncomfortable for many, though, so they choose not to. Lying down is a VERY common position for them, though, as lazy as they are! Many people at meet-and-greets prefer their dogs to be standing, however - it is more welcoming to those approaching.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

> They are trainable, contrary to popular opinion. They are hounds, though, and as such, bred to think for themselves, and not necessarily be in it to please their people.


That is something to take into account if you're used to biddable dogs. My old dog was half GSD half Golden Retriever and all biddable. Treats were really unnecessary, he lived to please*. It was a bit of shock to get a dog who, while incredibly nice and cuddly, isn't doing jack just to make me smile. It does make the victories a bit sweeter, though.


*Note: training Muggsy a trick was ridiculously easy. Dealing with his off the charts dog aggression was not. There's a difference between training and dealing with behavioral issues.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Amaryllis said:


> I don't think GSD mixes have any particular issues with small dogs like greyhounds do. Obvs, any dog can be dog aggressive or just not like your adorable Roxie, but I don't think it's a breed specific thing, unless the other side of the mix is greyhound maybe.


When I said "If I do get one" I meant "if I do get a Greyhound" lol that post was all over the place.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

Sighthounds4me said:


> By the way, I just want to say, most ex-racers ARE NOT rescues. They have had a great life on the track, and are generally in no danger once they grade off (stop performing well, so the trainer ends their career). That's why you have not seen me use the term "rescue," except in this paragraph.
> 
> Foyerhawk has a lot of experience in the racing industry, and in adoptions. I'll let her know about this thread, too!


I'm curious why both the ASPCA and the Humane Society, as well as several states that have outright banned it, call greyhound racing inhumane and cruel, citing multiple ways in which these dogs are treated poorly, including death to non-performers. I can't find anything positive about it at all. Well, not for the dogs.


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## Wicket (Aug 21, 2011)

JulieK1967 said:


> I'm curious why both the ASPCA and the Humane Society, as well as several states that have outright banned it, call greyhound racing inhumane and cruel, citing multiple ways in which these dogs are treated poorly, including death to non-performers. I can't find anything positive about it at all. Well, not for the dogs.


I've heard this as well, not sure what to believe. Wouldn't racing greyhounds have to be taken good care of to be good racers?


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

JulieK1967 said:


> I'm curious why both the ASPCA and the Humane Society, as well as several states that have outright banned it, call greyhound racing inhumane and cruel, citing multiple ways in which these dogs are treated poorly, including death to non-performers. I can't find anything positive about it at all. Well, not for the dogs.


Well, first of all, the ASPCA and H$U$ are lobbying groups. They are not about the animals, contrary to their ads, etc. Instead, they are around to make money and lobby for animal rights. Yes, that's right, animal RIGHTS. The vast majority of the money they make goes back into their own businesses, or into lobbying lawmakers. They DO NOT support your local animal shelter. They want you o believe that, thus their tear-jerking ads, but the fact is, the money lines their own pockets.

As for Greyhound racing: the best way to get to know the sport is to visit it. I don't mean hang out in the clubhouse during a race. I mean get dirty, and visit the kennels. Help with a turn-out or a feeding. Simply get a tour. Or visit a farm. Same kind of thing. These dogs LOVE what they do, and have fun!

Most kennels I have been in are spotless. I would eat off the floor, and not have to fear for anything. The first thing you smell when you walk in is bleach. They are that clean.

But the biggest thing to consider is this: if a Greyhound Is abused or mistreated, is he going to run well? If he does not run well, is his owner going to make money? People in the racing industry know this, and treat these dogs as the elite athletes they are. These dogs are treated better than many pets.

Here's another thing to consider, too: There is abuse/neglect in pet ownership. But we don't see people screaming to ban pet ownership (well, other than animal rights nutjobs! But that's a whole different can of worms...). I am not going to say that Greyhound racing does not have its share of losers. But so does life in general. Having learned a LOT over the last several years from many people in the industry, I have learned that not everything is wine and roses. But they are working hard to dispel the ages-old propaganda to suggest that Greyhound racing is rampant with abuse and neglect.

Speaking of ages-old propaganda, these AR groups you mention use photos and stories form many, many years ago to further their claims that Greyhound racing is a horror. Most of them cannot find any recent information, because _there is very little!_

Now, having said all this, it is important to remember that I am not employed in the racing industry. But, i have taken the time to educate myself, and not believe all the propaganda that is out there. It's actually a fascinating sport, and if I had the chance to work in a kennel, I would!


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

Thanks for the response. That's all very interesting. You're the first person I've ever seen to say anything positive about greyhound racing in terms of the dogs. I have to be honest and say that I'm personally uncomfortable with using animals for sport so my perception is naturally colored with that bias. I can't visit a track as greyhound racing is banned in California. How much truth is there to the claims that thousands are PTS each year and many others are injured while racing? I've also read that the puppies that aren't chosen for racing or adoption are either PTS or sold to animal testing labs. I've also read that animals are used as bait to train the greys to chase. The more I'm reading from multiple sources, not including ASPCA or Humane Society OR PETA, makes me think it's not such a great deal for the dogs.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

Many people consider greyhound racing to be cruel and inhumane because of the treatment the dogs receive during their racing careers and because of ongoing concerns about their disposition after racing.

First, racing greyhounds are kept in small cages throughout their racing career. These cages are too small to allow large greyhounds to properly stand or turn around. Greyhounds spend 20+ hours per day in those cages. They are turned out three to four times a day to a "turnout pen" where they can relieve themselves.

Second, the industry commonly uses testosterone and other androgens to prevent female greyhounds from going into heat. These "treatments" can cause abnormal formations of the female genitalia, sometimes to the point of requiring corrective surgery. The city of South Tucson, Arizona, home of Tucson Greyhound Park, passed an ordinance specifically banning this practice. TGP responded by taking the dogs across the city line into Tucson to do the injections.

Third, every time a greyhound races, they are at risk of serious injury and death. It's not hard to understand why injuries occur - there are typically eight greyhounds in a race, running at 40 mph, and all trying to turn around sharp bends. Collisions are not uncommon, and a dog running at 40 mph is at serious risk of life-threatening injury.

Fourth, racing greyhounds are fed raw, 4D meat. That is meat that this is "dead, down, diseased, or dying" and is considered unfit for human consumption. The meat is often mixed with charcoal to prevent it being sold for humans. Racing proponents will tell you that is the same meat that is used in commercial dog foods, and they're right - but it's cooked for commercial foods, not fed raw. The diet of raw foods, fed for several years, can leave greyhounds with poor dentition and even gum disease.

Fifth, there continue to be concerns about the final disposition of dogs that are no longer profitable racers. Again, proponents have their own claims on this, and they'll often make statements like, "It doesn't make sense to mistreat a dog that's making money for you." That's true, but the dog racing industry does it anyway. And the obvious caveat to that statement is, "It doesn't make sense to spend money on a dog that is not making you money." That's where the biggest problems occur. There are over 300 greyhound adoption groups across the country, but there are still greyhounds that are killed rather than adopted out. With no laws requiring disclosure of the final disposition of greyhounds, we can only guess at how many make it into adoption. The greyhound racing industry likes to claim "90% of greyhounds" get adopted. But what happens to the other 10%? That 90%, by the way, includes greyhounds that are returned to the farm for breeding or kept by their owners/trainers. With approximately 11,000 greyhounds whelped each year, that means several hundred greyhounds, at least, simply go missing. 

If you would like to read specific, well-documented information about greyhounds and the racing industry, I invite you to visit www.grey2kusa.org. GREY2K USA publishes information about racing in each of the seven states where it remains legal.

For information about adopting a greyhound, including behavior, health, and other concerns, visit the webpage of your local greyhound adoption group. You can also visit www.gcnm.org - the website of Greyhound Companions of New Mexico, a group that does greyhound adoption, advocacy, rescue, and education.

I am the vice-president of GREY2K USA and the communications director for GCNM. We currently share our home with four greyhounds - two racers, one raised for racing who never made it onto the track, and one who came to us as an abandoned puppy. Our first greyhound passed away in April at the young age of nine from liver failure. He was a retired racer, too.

Greyhounds make great companions. Or should I say, "greyt" companions?


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

JulieK1967 said:


> How much truth is there to the claims that thousands are PTS each year and many others are injured while racing? I've also read that the puppies that aren't chosen for racing or adoption are either PTS or sold to animal testing labs. I've also read that animals are used as bait to train the greys to chase.


The actual number of greyhounds PTS each year as a direct result of racing is an unknown. There simply isn't sufficient record-keeping to know for certain. It would seem, based on the evidence available, that at least several hundred greyhounds are PTS rather than put into adoption. Injuries are not uncommon in the racing industry. GREY2K USA compiles reports based on official documentation of those injuries. If you visit http://www.grey2kusa.org/action/states.html, you can click on the individual states to read those reports. Here's a link to the information on Arizona racing - http://www.grey2kusa.org/pdf/AZ2011.pdf.

There have been some instances of greyhounds being sold/given to research labs, but that information is dated. It likely still happens, but the numbers are probably not large. Racing proponents will tell you that using live animals to train greyhounds is illegal. That's true, but it doesn't say anything about whether it is still done or not. There has been recent evidence that this practice does continue, despite it's legal status and the industry's claims that they don't allow it.

Greyhounds are great dogs, and they deserve better than the racing industry.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Bird dog field trialing was my game and if you wanted to win the dog had to be treated and cared for like an athlete. You don't win with abused dogs. Know nothing about racing dogs but it makes sense that good care is needed.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

EricJackson said:


> Many people consider greyhound racing to be cruel and inhumane because of the treatment the dogs receive during their racing careers and because of ongoing concerns about their disposition after racing.
> 
> First, racing greyhounds are kept in small cages throughout their racing career. These cages are too small to allow large greyhounds to properly stand or turn around. Greyhounds spend 20+ hours per day in those cages. They are turned out three to four times a day to a "turnout pen" where they can relieve themselves.


NOT TRUE! Ever seen a racing Greyhound kennel? These crates are HUGE! Much larger than the crates most of us use for our pets at home. I know of men, well over 6' tall, comfortably sleeping in those crates if they had to stay at the kennel overnight, for whatever reason!

And Greyhounds are turned out 3-4 times a day. But those turnouts are usually an hour or two each. That's 6-8 hours each day of free time. That's often more than many of us provide our pets.



> Second, the industry commonly uses testosterone and other androgens to prevent female greyhounds from going into heat. These "treatments" can cause abnormal formations of the female genitalia, sometimes to the point of requiring corrective surgery. The city of South Tucson, Arizona, home of Tucson Greyhound Park, passed an ordinance specifically banning this practice. TGP responded by taking the dogs across the city line into Tucson to do the injections.


This is true. But what would happen if bitches were in season all the time? Would we rather have constant accidental breedings, and/or males with chronic prostatitis? AND, there are many bitches in other breeds, who have never been exposed to testosterone who have this problem too...



> Third, every time a greyhound races, they are at risk of serious injury and death. It's not hard to understand why injuries occur - there are typically eight greyhounds in a race, running at 40 mph, and all trying to turn around sharp bends. Collisions are not uncommon, and a dog running at 40 mph is at serious risk of life-threatening injury.


I have seen far more horrific injuries in backyards at home. My own dogs included. Should we ban dogs running around their backyards at home?



> Fourth, racing greyhounds are fed raw, 4D meat. That is meat that this is "dead, down, diseased, or dying" and is considered unfit for human consumption. The meat is often mixed with charcoal to prevent it being sold for humans. Racing proponents will tell you that is the same meat that is used in commercial dog foods, and they're right - but it's cooked for commercial foods, not fed raw. The diet of raw foods, fed for several years, can leave greyhounds with poor dentition and even gum disease.


I know of plenty of racing industry folks who feed this stuff to their own pet dogs. I would, if I had access to it. A dog's digestive system is much more efficient than a human's: they can eat things that we can't. Ever have a dog that eats poop? How 'bout decaying squirrels dead in the backyard? That's FAR worse than anything a Greyhound is going to get on the track.

Once again, I pose the question: How can a Greyhound eran money for his owner, if he is not healthy and well cared for? Part if that care is nutrition. Good kibble, mixed with carbs (usually pasta), veggies, and meat. This is what these guys eat. And they do just fine, thank you.



> Fifth, there continue to be concerns about the final disposition of dogs that are no longer profitable racers. Again, proponents have their own claims on this, and they'll often make statements like, "It doesn't make sense to mistreat a dog that's making money for you." That's true, but the dog racing industry does it anyway. And the obvious caveat to that statement is, "It doesn't make sense to spend money on a dog that is not making you money." That's where the biggest problems occur. There are over 300 greyhound adoption groups across the country, but there are still greyhounds that are killed rather than adopted out. With no laws requiring disclosure of the final disposition of greyhounds, we can only guess at how many make it into adoption. The greyhound racing industry likes to claim "90% of greyhounds" get adopted. But what happens to the other 10%? That 90%, by the way, includes greyhounds that are returned to the farm for breeding or kept by their owners/trainers. With approximately 11,000 greyhounds whelped each year, that means several hundred greyhounds, at least, simply go missing.


It is simply false to say that there are "no laws requiring disclosure of the final disposition of greyhounds." My own state, Wisconsin, has a law on the books that prohibits euthanizing Greyhounds simply because their racing career is over. Many other states have similar laws.

[/quote]If you would like to read specific, well-documented information about greyhounds and the racing industry, I invite you to visit www.grey2kusa.org. GREY2K USA publishes information about racing in each of the seven states where it remains legal.

For information about adopting a greyhound, including behavior, health, and other concerns, visit the webpage of your local greyhound adoption group. You can also visit www.gcnm.org - the website of Greyhound Companions of New Mexico, a group that does greyhound adoption, advocacy, rescue, and education.

I am the vice-president of GREY2K USA and the communications director for GCNM. We currently share our home with four greyhounds - two racers, one raised for racing who never made it onto the track, and one who came to us as an abandoned puppy. Our first greyhound passed away in April at the young age of nine from liver failure. He was a retired racer, too.

Greyhounds make great companions. Or should I say, "greyt" companions? [/QUOTE]

The fact that you work for Grey2K explains a lot. Folks, this is an anti-racing organization that likes to contradict itself on a regular basis. They are on-par with PETA, H$U$, ASPCA, and others who are in it for a specific agenda, and to make money.

I can agree on one point, however: these dogs make GREYT companions when they retire. They are worth looking into for anyone who wants a quiet, loving canine companion!


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

Here's a You Tube video (2 parts) that outlines how a greyhound goes from the race track to a pet home. It's pretty interesting. It's on the website for the local greyhound rescue in Atlanta, GA.

http://www.greyhoundadoption.org/adopt/roadhome.cfm


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

SightHounds4Me: I would not describe greyhound racing cages as "huge" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, the Greyhound Racing Association says the individual cages are "33" wide, 43" deep, and 32" high" (http://www.gra-america.org/buy_a_dog/farm_life/farm5.html). Mind you, www.dog-breed-facts.com lists greyhound males as "standing 28 to 31 inches and females standing 26 to 28 inches at shoulder height." That means many greyhounds, especially males, cannot stand comfortably in their kennels. Also, greyhounds vary in length, but most are longer than they are tall, and SC GAP (http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/SC83.html) lists their length as 30 to 34 inches. Your comment that a 6' tall man could sleep "comfortably" in one of those cages is preposterous. Here's a picture taken inside a racing kennel: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0BuvID10b...Du0/eukBkA9PRGw/s320/Inside+kennel+room_3.jpg
That image is from this Blog site: http://piperbasenji.blogspot.com/2011/02/my-life-as-race-dog-by-nicholas.html

Keep in mind that in most kennels, the females are housed in these upper cages with the males underneath them. The females are typically smaller than the males. 

You said, "Greyhounds are turned out 3-4 times a day. But those turnouts are usually an hour or two each. That's 6-8 hours each day of free time. That's often more than many of us provide our pets." If a turnout lasts for one hour, then the lower range would be three hours per day. That would mean greyhounds are locked in a cage for 21 hours per day. 

You also said, "I have seen far more horrific injuries in backyards at home. My own dogs included. Should we ban dogs running around their backyards at home?" If your dogs are getting injured regularly in your yard, then you need to change your yard or consider not having dogs. I would hope your dogs are not suffering skull fractures or getting electrocuted in your yard, injuries that occurred at Florida dog tracks (http://www.grey2kusa.org/pdf/FLreport.pdf#page=14).

It's good that Wisconsin has a law that, as you said, "prohibits euthanizing Greyhounds simply because their racing career is over." That's great. But how many dog tracks do you have in Wisconsin? The answer is none.

Finally, you said, "The fact that you work for Grey2K explains a lot. Folks, this is an anti-racing organization that likes to contradict itself on a regular basis. They are on-par with PETA, H$U$, ASPCA, and others who are in it for a specific agenda, and to make money." The only things you got right in that statement are that GREY2K USA is an anti-racing organization and that we have a specific agenda. The "specific agenda" is putting an end to the cruelty and inhumane treatment of commercial dog racing. In regards to contradictions, if you have evidence to support that, please present it. As for PeTA, HSUS, or ASPCA, they are independent organizations with their own agendas. Their purposes and practices are outside the realm of this conversation. If you'd like to discuss them, I would suggest you start a new thread. In regards to making money, I am an unpaid volunteer for both groups I work for. I make no money from greyhounds. In fact, I regularly donate money to those groups to further their missions. GREY2K USA has worked tirelessly to pass laws to protect the greyhounds.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

wvasko said:


> Bird dog field trialing was my game and if you wanted to win the dog had to be treated and cared for like an athlete. You don't win with abused dogs. Know nothing about racing dogs but it makes sense that good care is needed.


The greatest problems occur when a dog is no longer profitable - when there is no return for providing good care. For example, look at the Ronnie Williams case in Ebro. Williams allowed more than thirty greyhounds to starve to death while in his care. Williams was eventually sentenced to five years in prison. http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/At_least_20_greyhounds_found_dead_in_Panhandle_106403708.html


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## Brieana (May 9, 2012)

cookieface said:


> Can anyone elaborate on this? My understanding is that greys are generally good with other dogs of approximately the same size as they have been living with trackmates. Yes, many do chase small furry critters - including other dogs - as that is what they have been bred and trained to do, but that a tendency to be dog aggressive is not common.


I found this page when I was researching dog aggression for my aunt and her dog reactive Pit Bull.

http://www.gcnm.org/dogparks.html

ETA: That comment about PTSD reminded me of a time when my friend walked her Boxer past a retired racer at an adoption faire at Petsmart. Something about her dog triggered a response in the Grey and it lashed out for no reason. Her dog ended up needing stitches on his shoulder.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

EricJackson said:


> The greatest problems occur when a dog is no longer profitable - when there is no return for providing good care. For example, look at the Ronnie Williams case in Ebro. Williams allowed more than thirty greyhounds to starve to death while in his care. Williams was eventually sentenced to five years in prison. http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/At_least_20_greyhounds_found_dead_in_Panhandle_106403708.html


Not gonna argue with above, but I would not judge anything using extreme examples. Whether it's horses, dogs, hamsters or cruelty to kids you can hunt and find idiots. 

I often wonder if the people that end up like that started with love for whatever animals they end up abusing/destroying. It's a puzzlement.

I knew of a Vet (now retired) that really did not like horses or dogs and I often wondered why he picked a Vet career.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

*Sighthounds4Me*, thank you for responding. What you've said is in line with everything else I've heard and / or read. I appreciate your taking the time to clarify various statements.

I see that you're in Wisconsin, so this is a long shot: do you know anything about National Greyhound Adoption Program in Philadelphia? I know someone who has adopted greys from them and she speaks highly of them. The information on their site looks good and they seem reputable. I like that they have their own animal hospital specializing in greyhound-specific issues and will provide support for the lifetime of any dog adopted from them.

For now, though, I think the wise course of action is to continue working with my current dog - I want her to be very well-mannered before bringing in a second dog - and put my greyhound dreams on hold for a few years. It's good to know there are knowledgeable folks here when I'm ready.


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

JulieK1967 said:


> Thanks for the response. That's all very interesting. You're the first person I've ever seen to say anything positive about greyhound racing in terms of the dogs. I have to be honest and say that I'm personally uncomfortable with using animals for sport so my perception is naturally colored with that bias. I can't visit a track as greyhound racing is banned in California. How much truth is there to the claims that thousands are PTS each year and many others are injured while racing? I've also read that the puppies that aren't chosen for racing or adoption are either PTS or sold to animal testing labs. I've also read that animals are used as bait to train the greys to chase. The more I'm reading from multiple sources, not including ASPCA or Humane Society OR PETA, makes me think it's not such a great deal for the dogs.


Actually, greyhound racing is ONLY BANNED in ONE state - Idaho! What is banned in the other states is WAGERING on greyhounds. In Massachusetts and others, it is perfectly LEGAL to race greyhounds, however, you cannot bet on them. That's a huge difference! 

From the 2008 Massachusetts Law...

Section 14E. Notwithstanding the provisions of this chapter or any general or special law to the contrary, *no dog racing or racing meeting where any form of betting or wagering on the speed or ability of dogs occurs shall be conducted or permitted in this commonwealth*​
Regarding Pennsylvania's Act 36 of 2004, I quote from Sen. Greenleaf's webpage...

Sen. Greenleaf amended the language from his legislation, SB 93, into HB 832, which makes it a *misdemeanor of the first degree for a person to hold, conduct or operate a greyhound race for public exhibition and for monetary remuneration*. (Act 36 of 2004).​
This does NOT ban racing, just WAGERING! I can continue quoting all the laws in the various states that are touted as 'banning greyhound racing'. But, excepting Idaho, they are all the same - they BAN WAGERING.

So, all that verbage on the websites of In Defense of Animals (IDA), Grey2K USA, HSUS, PeTA, ALF, etc. is just that - verbage. Racing has not been banned, just wagering. 

Speaking of Grey2K USA aka Grey2K, members of the BOD & upper management also serve on the board of the anti-gambling organizations, Stop Predatory Gambling and the National Coalition Against Gambling. Those members are Dr. Tom Gray and Carey Theil. 

For a whole lot more information on greyhounds & racing, this blog has some good information and it provides some insight into the dogs, the AR movement, the people behind the dogs, the people against the dogs, etc.

http://grey2klies.blogspot.com/


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

Sighthounds4me said:


> Nope - most can sit, despite common perception. It's a little uncomfortable for many, though, so they choose not to. Lying down is a VERY common position for them, though, as lazy as they are! Many people at meet-and-greets prefer their dogs to be standing, however - it is more welcoming to those approaching.


Here's a step by step process on teaching greyhounds to sit... Never Say Never Greyhounds

Greyhounds are very trainable, however, because they are sighthounds, they think differently. You ask a greyhound to sit and they say, "Why? What's in it for me???" 

As others have stated, there is a big difference between aggression & prey drive. All dogs have prey drive to some extent; not all dogs are aggressive. Prey drive is the motivation for dogs to chase, catch & kill animals like rabbits & hares. Aggression, however, can occur in many contexts: fear, dominance, protection, food competition, and territory defense. Greyhounds normally have a high prey drive because the breed's origins are in hunting (independent of man). Prey drive does not make a dog aggressive. Other dogs with very strong prey drive are those that herd, such as border collies, shelties, and German Shepherds. Herding is modified hunting behavior. 

Aggressive greyhounds are rare but they do occur. I put them down. They are a huge liability and they can be deadly, not only to animals but also to people. I don't want an 80# dog trying to take me out and I'll not place a dog like that into adoption. The best recourse for all, including that animal, is euthanasia. Greyhounds like that are just not wired right.


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

NGAP appears to be reputable, but I'd not trust them with a 10' pole! Among reputable adoption groups, David Wolf has a very, very bad reputation. There are a couple of GPA groups in PA and I'd go there, if I still lived on that side of the country. The thing is to find a group that YOU like and that will work with you. I strongly recommend that you ask questions and visit with several groups. They are all different. 

You can find a pretty complete listing of groups at Adopt-A-Greyhound.


Keystone Greyhounds/Greyhound Pets of America
Dianne Shadle 
1406 Harcourt Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17110 
Phone:	717-234-1860
Website:	http://www.keystonegreys.org
EMail:	[email protected]


Greyhound Pets of America/Three Rivers Greyhounds
Laurie Walz, President 
PO Box 111202
Pittsburgh, PA 15238 
Phone:	724-216-5820
Website:	http://www.gpathreeriversgreyhounds.org
EMail:	[email protected]


Make Peace With Animals
Cynthia Branigan 
P.O. Box 488
New Hope, PA 18938 
Phone:	215-862-0605
215-862-2733
Website:	http://www.makepeacewithanimals.org
EMail:	[email protected]


Greyhound Pets of America / Maryland Inc.
Ethel Whitehurst, President 
P.O. Box 42103
Baltimore, MD 21284-2103 
Phone:	1-800-600-8607 (toll free)
Fax: 1-800-600-8607 (toll free)
Website:	http://www.gpa-md.com/
EMail:	[email protected]

Lutherville
Herb Rosen 
11404 Lhasa Lane
Lutherville, MD 21093 
Phone:	410-252-7555


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

EricJackson said:


> Racing proponents will tell you that using live animals to train greyhounds is illegal. That's true, but it doesn't say anything about whether it is still done or not. There has been recent evidence that this practice does continue, despite it's legal status and the industry's claims that they don't allow it.


The use of live animals is expressly prohibited. It is NOT allowed. When it is discovered that someone has used live animals, such as jackrabbits (vermin in western states), those people are kicked out of racing. They are banned. There has been only one (1) recent case in 2011 and that fellow lost his license. 

From the Times Leader - The Texas Racing Commission has since suspended the license of the greyhound owner using the techniques. A national ban usually follows state action.​It's like everything else in which men are involved - there are always rule breakers. I mean, how many people cheat on their taxes? How many people break speed limits???? It happens.


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

> Third, every time a greyhound races, they are at risk of serious injury and death. It's not hard to understand why injuries occur - there are typically eight greyhounds in a race, running at 40 mph, and all trying to turn around sharp bends. Collisions are not uncommon, and a dog running at 40 mph is at serious risk of life-threatening injury.


Using statistics which are provided on many websites, *the actual injury rate for racing greyhounds is less than 1% (<0.01).* Grey2k (of which Eric is a Board Member) is fond of reciting the number of injuries sustained by greyhounds while racing, over a given period of time at a given racetrack. What they never do is include the number of available opportunities for the greyhounds to sustain those injuries. For example, on a typical racing program, there may be 15 individual races. There are usually 8 greyhounds in each race….therefore, 8×15=120 “opportunities to sustain an injury” of any type while racing—in only one night of racing activity. Injuries include ANYTHING that keeps a dog from racing including broken nails & muscle strains. Each and every statistical analysis of the number of injuries versus the number of opportunities to sustain an injury, however slight, has shown that the RATE of injury is always just a mere fraction of one percent. It's interesting how statistics can be manipulated.

Any injury is unfortunate. However, as has been previously pointed out, greyhounds have had horrific injuries in people's backyards. Sadly, a dear friend of mine lost a much loved greyhound in her backyard when he turned his head to look at the other greyhounds chasing him in a game of tag. He ran into a tree, breaking his neck. Unless you wrap them in bubble wrap and keep them from being dogs, they do get hurt.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

Another thing I'd like to point out about Grey2K is this: They ARE NOT an adoption group. They have never lifted one finger to actually HELP ex-racers find adoptive homes. Not one. They'd rather spread propaganda that gets tracks shut down, but then they leave the "dirty work" of placing displaced dogs to the adoption groups in the trenches. But they can claim a victory if they got the track shut down! Who cares about all these dogs that need homes, or all the people who lost their jobs!

And, Eric, I never once said my dogs are regularly getting injured. You read that into my statement. I stated that it is as likely, if not more likely that dogs *in general* will get injured in the *average owner's* backyard, than on the track, and my own dogs are among those. Not all of them have been Greyhounds. As you can see by my signature, I do not have Greyhounds at this time. I fully intend to continue in the breed, however, at this time, we are "merely" volunteers for getting these guys into forever homes.

"Dyno-Mutt," Thanks for providing a few more numbers for me. I had been at work all day, and did not have a chance to post more information. Your data is very compelling!


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

dyno-mutt said:


> Actually, greyhound racing is ONLY BANNED in ONE state - Idaho! What is banned in the other states is WAGERING on greyhounds. In Massachusetts and others, it is perfectly LEGAL to race greyhounds, however, you cannot bet on them. That's a huge difference!


But since wagering is not allowed, there is no commercial racing in Massachusetts or the other states. That's because greyhound racing is all about the money. The dogs are a betting commodity like casino chips or decks of cards.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

Sighthounds4me said:


> And, Eric, I never once said my dogs are regularly getting injured. You read that into my statement. I stated that it is as likely, if not more likely that dogs *in general* will get injured in the *average owner's* backyard, than on the track, and my own dogs are among those. Not all of them have been Greyhounds. As you can see by my signature, I do not have Greyhounds at this time. I fully intend to continue in the breed, however, at this time, we are "merely" volunteers for getting these guys into forever homes.


What you said, was, "I have seen far more horrific injuries in backyards at home. My own dogs included. Should we ban dogs running around their backyards at home?"

So your dogs have suffered more horrific injuries than those suffered by racing greyhounds? More horrific than fractured skulls, broken backs, broken legs, and electrocution? That's an indefensible argument.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

Sighthounds4me said:


> Another thing I'd like to point out about Grey2K is this: They ARE NOT an adoption group. They have never lifted one finger to actually HELP ex-racers find adoptive homes. Not one. They'd rather spread propaganda that gets tracks shut down, but then they leave the "dirty work" of placing displaced dogs to the adoption groups in the trenches. But they can claim a victory if they got the track shut down! Who cares about all these dogs that need homes, or all the people who lost their jobs!


Correct, GREY2K USA is a 501(c)4 organization that works to pass legislation to end dog racing. GREY2K USA has never claimed to be an adoption group. This is a straw-man argument that racing proponents use frequently. The adoption groups often can't or won't speak out about the horrors of greyhound racing, but that's the mission of GREY2K USA. Would you call the police department if your house was on fire? No, you'd call the fire department because they do that work.

In regards to the rest of your "information" - please go back to your sources and ask them for additional information, because you are incorrect about much of what you have said.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

dyno-mutt said:


> Using statistics which are provided on many websites, *the actual injury rate for racing greyhounds is less than 1% (<0.01).* Grey2k (of which Eric is a Board Member) is fond of reciting the number of injuries sustained by greyhounds while racing, over a given period of time at a given racetrack. What they never do is include the number of available opportunities for the greyhounds to sustain those injuries. For example, on a typical racing program, there may be 15 individual races. There are usually 8 greyhounds in each race….therefore, 8×15=120 “opportunities to sustain an injury” of any type while racing—in only one night of racing activity. Injuries include ANYTHING that keeps a dog from racing including broken nails & muscle strains. Each and every statistical analysis of the number of injuries versus the number of opportunities to sustain an injury, however slight, has shown that the RATE of injury is always just a mere fraction of one percent. It's interesting how statistics can be manipulated.
> 
> Any injury is unfortunate. However, as has been previously pointed out, greyhounds have had horrific injuries in people's backyards. Sadly, a dear friend of mine lost a much loved greyhound in her backyard when he turned his head to look at the other greyhounds chasing him in a game of tag. He ran into a tree, breaking his neck. Unless you wrap them in bubble wrap and keep them from being dogs, they do get hurt.


There are a number of ways of calculating the risk of injury to a given group of greyhounds, and I don't believe your method is accurate. At the end of the day, a greyhound who gets hurt doesn't care if his injury was one in a million or one in ten - that greyhound is injured. And greyhounds don't run just one race, they race hundreds of times.

Yes, greyhounds get injured in people's yards, but there is a difference between greyhounds out playing and those placed at risk of injury and/or death for the purpose of wagering. That's the difference between companion animals and racing greyhounds. Racing animals for profit is exploitation.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

dyno-mutt said:


> The use of live animals is expressly prohibited. It is NOT allowed. When it is discovered that someone has used live animals, such as jackrabbits (vermin in western states), those people are kicked out of racing. They are banned. There has been only one (1) recent case in 2011 and that fellow lost his license.
> 
> From the Times Leader - The Texas Racing Commission has since suspended the license of the greyhound owner using the techniques. A national ban usually follows state action.​It's like everything else in which men are involved - there are always rule breakers. I mean, how many people cheat on their taxes? How many people break speed limits???? It happens.


But, again, if it is banned and is "expressly prohibited", why is it still happening? The ban isn't new, it's been in place for some time, but there are still cases of greyhounds being trained with live lures. And it's not just one person in Texas. In fact, it's another of the greyhound racing industry's poorly kept secrets.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

wvasko said:


> Not gonna argue with above, but I would not judge anything using extreme examples. Whether it's horses, dogs, hamsters or cruelty to kids you can hunt and find idiots.
> 
> I often wonder if the people that end up like that started with love for whatever animals they end up abusing/destroying. It's a puzzlement.
> 
> I knew of a Vet (now retired) that really did not like horses or dogs and I often wondered why he picked a Vet career.


Yes, Ronnie Williams is a horrific outlier, thank goodness. It just doesn't make sense that someone involved in racing would allow such a thing to happen.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

cookieface said:


> Do you know anything about National Greyhound Adoption Program in Philadelphia? I know someone who has adopted greys from them and she speaks highly of them. The information on their site looks good and they seem reputable. I like that they have their own animal hospital specializing in greyhound-specific issues and will provide support for the lifetime of any dog adopted from them.


It sounds like you're doing exactly what many adoption groups recommend - read, read, read about greyhound health and behavior, then make an informed decision to adopt a grey. They are fantastic companion animals, as you'll find.


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

EricJackson said:


> But since wagering is not allowed, there is no commercial racing in Massachusetts or the other states. That's because greyhound racing is all about the money. The dogs are a betting commodity like casino chips or decks of cards.


No... greyhound racing is greyhound racing and it doesn't matter if there is wagering or not. For instance, amateur greyhound racing which is perfectly legal, even in Massachusetts. 

Grey2K and its minions state that they want to BAN GREYHOUND RACING and that they do NOT have a position on gambling. That is a blatant falsehood! Why do I say that? Because, if it were truly about the racing, amateur racing would also be under attack. After all, the greyhounds are still racing, still eating 4D meat (in some cases), still getting injured, still in crates... yadda yadda yadda. All those things that Grey2K claim as "abusive" still exist, but on an amateur level and not only in greyhounds but also in borzoi, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, basenji, Italian Greyhounds, saluki, etc.... Yet, Grey2K and its minions are strangely silent on amateur racing. Why??? Because "protecting the dogs" isn't the overall goal, no matter how much it is said. *The overall goal is the regulation of people's access to gambling*. Remember, the Rev Tom Gray and Carey Theil are both involved in the anti-gambling organization - Stop Predatory Gambling. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out no matter how much smoke and how many mirrors are employed! 

The dogs are being used by anti-gambling factions to facilitate regulating gambling. The dogs are the ends to justify the means. It has been espoused that after dog racing, the next target is horse racing... As Sighthounds4Me has said, Grey2K does not do any of the actual work, rehoming dogs. But they sure do toot their own horn as if they did. Pfffttttt.......


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

EricJackson said:


> Yes, Ronnie Williams is a horrific outlier, thank goodness. It just doesn't make sense that someone involved in racing would allow such a thing to happen.


Horrific events in the world never make sense and they occur. Examples include the Holocaust as well as the genocide in both Darfur and Rwanda. One has to wonder how they were allowed to happen. Some people just aren't wired right. They too should be euthanized... Yes, I support the death penalty for some.


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

EricJackson said:


> But, again, if it is banned and is "expressly prohibited", why is it still happening? The ban isn't new, it's been in place for some time, but there are still cases of greyhounds being trained with live lures. And it's not just one person in Texas. In fact, it's another of the greyhound racing industry's poorly kept secrets.


It isn't a secret. It happened and the man was punished. Hello???

As for why it still occurs... Why do people cheat on their taxes, exams, bloodwork, etc. - because they think they may get away with something or get ahead of someone else. 

It happens in all walks of life, not just in greyhounds.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

dyno-mutt said:


> No... greyhound racing is greyhound racing and it doesn't matter if there is wagering or not. For instance, amateur greyhound racing which is perfectly legal, even in Massachusetts.
> 
> Grey2K and its minions state that they want to BAN GREYHOUND RACING and that they do NOT have a position on gambling. That is a blatant falsehood! Why do I say that? Because, if it were truly about the racing, amateur racing would also be under attack. After all, the greyhounds are still racing, still eating 4D meat (in some cases), still getting injured, still in crates... yadda yadda yadda. All those things that Grey2K claim as "abusive" still exist, but on an amateur level and not only in greyhounds but also in borzoi, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, basenji, Italian Greyhounds, saluki, etc.... Yet, Grey2K and its minions are strangely silent on amateur racing. Why??? Because "protecting the dogs" isn't the overall goal, no matter how much it is said. *The overall goal is the regulation of people's access to gambling*. Remember, the Rev Tom Gray and Carey Theil are both involved in the anti-gambling organization - Stop Predatory Gambling. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out no matter how much smoke and how many mirrors are employed!
> 
> The dogs are being used by anti-gambling factions to facilitate regulating gambling. The dogs are the ends to justify the means. It has been espoused that after dog racing, the next target is horse racing... As Sighthounds4Me has said, Grey2K does not do any of the actual work, rehoming dogs. But they sure do toot their own horn as if they did. Pfffttttt.......


Once again, there is a substantial difference between commercial dog racing and pet ownership. If "greyhound racing is greyhound racing", why are there not commercial kennels in Massachusetts? Why are there not professionally run race tracks, as there were? Because commercial greyhound racing is an industry that exploits greyhounds for profit. 

We can't say it enough - GREY2K USA does not have a position on gambling. That's pretty straightforward. The greyhounds and other dogs commonly used in amateur racing are pets, and as such are not housed in commercial kennels like racing greyhounds. Some of those dogs may be fed 4D meat, but I'd be surprised to read it was in any sense common practice. In greyhound racing, it is an industry standard practice. Yes, the dogs still get injured, and that's why some adoption groups don't condone amateur racing. I don't know of a single person who keeps a pet in the kennel conditions that greyhounds are commonly maintained in. Even Tom Taylor, CEO of Tucson Greyhound Park, said in a television interview that he would not keep his pet dog in the conditions at his own track! http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13725459

We asked, "Would you keep your dog like this?

Taylor said, "If it was a racing dog yes, if it was a pet no."​
Racing proponents can't defend the practices of commercial greyhound racing, so they try and redirect the conversation away from the facts. At the end of the day, the greyhound racing industry is cruel, inhumane, and needs to end.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

dyno-mutt said:


> It isn't a secret. It happened and the man was punished. Hello???


But if it's been banned, how was it allowed to happen in the first place? How many other cases are there that have not made it into the public discourse? If you believe the people with personal knowledge, this remains a common practice among some breeders/trainers/owners. To claim that it does not occur because someone banned it, well, that's just not correct.


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## jenz (Aug 20, 2010)

I've had 3 greyhounds, fostered others, and volunteer extensively with my adoption group. I heartily recommend them if you are looking for a lower-energy, large breed! My babies: Lucy, Clifford and Jack:












> By the way, I just want to say, most ex-racers ARE NOT rescues. They have had a great life on the track, and are generally in no danger once they grade off (stop performing well, so the trainer ends their career). That's why you have not seen me use the term "rescue," except in this paragraph.


A great life? I wouldn't go THAT far. They have a very low-frills utilitarian life at the track. They're like a dairy cow or boiler chicken, or any other animal raised to make money for humans. How long they stick around depends on their ability to win for their owners. Stop winning? They're not going to keep you around. And thank God there are so many adoption groups around to come up and mop up the mess--take these dogs, vet them, get them spayed/neutered, de-flea and de-tick these dogs --sit around at adoption events, booths and meet &greets evenings and weekends, spend hours on the phone talking to people, build websites, screen applications, do home visits and place these dogs in good homes--Yeah, once racing owners stop hoisting these responsibilities on OTHER PEOPLE, do it themselves--then I won't consider racing greyhound rescues.

Not to be bitter or anything, but I'll tell you a bit about my 3 greyhounds and their Wonderful Life at the Racetrack:

-Lucy, adopted at 41/2 years old from a New England track now closed. Terrified of other dogs. Wrote to her racing owner who said she was repeatedly attacked in the turn-out pens at the track by the other dogs--I guess they don't supervise so well. Complications from the continual testosterone shots that female greyhounds get while racing (they are not spayed, and run with intact males, so they are continually shot up to prevent heats). Early onset osteo-arthritis and bone spurs down her lower spine from age 6, due to heavy racing. Her racing owner was later brought to trial to testify in the infamous Rhodes Greyhound Death Camp in Alabama.

-Clifford, adopted at 3. The track told me he was the "kennel favorite" when I adopted him. Came so covered in fleas and ticks that his bath water ran red from blood when he got off the transport. We had baggies of dead, inflated ticks pulled off him-disgusting. Nerve and spine damage from racing for all of his life.

--Jack, my current boy. Raced only a short time (his maidens, and maybe 5 races) before shattering his back leg. The leg was not fixed, but the owner tried "bed rest" and then re-racing him on it. Obviously he couldn't make it, and was dumped off at an adoption group. Now 5 years old, he suffers from early onset osteo-arthritis and inflammation around that hock, compensations leading to a ripped iliopsoas muscle, and is seeing 2 ortho-specialists and getting weekly therapy so hopefully he can re-use the leg in the future... right now, he's usually on 3 legs. 

I love my greyhounds to death, and after what they've been through, the way they were dumped off by their racing owners, the stress they endured to their bodies for their whole lives--I will never believe they weren't "rescues" from the racing industry.

-Jen


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

Mr. Jackson is using 'circular' arguments. Not even worth replying to.... Pffftttttttt.........


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

dyno-mutt said:


> Mr. Jackson is using 'circular' arguments. Not even worth replying to.... Pffftttttttt.........


Again, a typical racing proponent statement. Greyhound racing is indefensible. Greyhounds are great pets, they make wonderful therapy dogs, and with proper training, they can be excellent service animals. Greyhounds deserve better than greyhound racing.


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## dyno-mutt (Nov 28, 2010)

EricJackson said:


> Again, a typical racing proponent statement.


Too funny! Everytime someone, anyone comes up with positive facts about greyhound racing, they are always tagged as "a racing proponent". So predictable... they also beat dead horses, in case you cannot tell. 

I have greyhounds but I have nothing to do with dog racing. I volunteer in greyhound adoptions and I've been volunteering for more than 15 years with a couple of different adoption groups. I recommend everyone do their own research and talk to people about the dogs. Also, use some common sense... abusing racing dogs is counterproductive to the overall goal - winning races. 

I know people who are not involved with greyhound racing, in fact, they don't even have greyhounds, and they have purchased the greyhound crates for use in their kennel situation. They like them because they are so big & sturdy. I've seen the greyhound crates at a greyhound adoption get together in Abilene, KS - they are huge and accommodate my 30" dogs with ease. I wish I could have them at home!

Eric Jackson is right - greyhounds DO deserve better... *They deserve to be treated and thought of as the fine, athletic animal that they are and not some object to be pitied.* That is the worse kind of abuse, IMO, making a dog into an object of pity to raise more money to line someone's pockets with. Pfffftttttttttt......


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## Emmaaeri (May 19, 2012)

Lots of energy, very fast, and has lots of muscle if you feed it the right things! These dogs are sweet, loving, and cute! You may want to be a little carefull if you get one from the shelter, though. They may be mistreated or abused, and scared.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

dyno-mutt said:


> Too funny! Everytime someone, anyone comes up with positive facts about greyhound racing, they are always tagged as "a racing proponent". So predictable... they also beat dead horses, in case you cannot tell.


Is there a name you would prefer? For someone who regularly posts on "pro-racing" forums and in favor of racing, I think calling you a "racing proponent" is accurate.



> I have greyhounds but I have nothing to do with dog racing. I volunteer in greyhound adoptions and I've been volunteering for more than 15 years with a couple of different adoption groups. I recommend everyone do their own research and talk to people about the dogs. Also, use some common sense... abusing racing dogs is counterproductive to the overall goal - winning races.


You have nothing to do with racing, but if you're working with a group that re-homes racing greyhounds, you're in the midst of the problem. And it is a problem. The issue of abusing racing dogs has been addressed previously. Caging an animal for 20+ hours per day and then placing that animal in harm's way for human profit is inhumane, cruel, and unacceptable to a large portion of the general public. 



> I know people who are not involved with greyhound racing, in fact, they don't even have greyhounds, and they have purchased the greyhound crates for use in their kennel situation. They like them because they are so big & sturdy. I've seen the greyhound crates at a greyhound adoption get together in Abilene, KS - they are huge and accommodate my 30" dogs with ease. I wish I could have them at home!


The cages may be large compared to other models available commercially, but they are too small for caging a greyhound for 20+ hours per day. You can have them at your home - when tracks close, they often sell off their fixtures, including the cages from unused kennels. "Adoption get together" in Abilene, KS? Are you referring to the National Greyhound Association spring meet? If not, please post some more information about this event. I'm sure there are a number of folks who would love to participate in such an event.



> Eric Jackson is right - greyhounds DO deserve better... *They deserve to be treated and thought of as the fine, athletic animal that they are and not some object to be pitied.* That is the worse kind of abuse, IMO, making a dog into an object of pity to raise more money to line someone's pockets with. Pfffftttttttttt......


Objects of pity? Do you mean like Petey D./Freeway (http://www.freewayfund.com/), the greyhound that was able to escape from a hauler in Florida and wasn't found for something like 17 hours? Petey D./Freeway who was found with significant injuries and extremely dehydrated? Apparently the hauler had at least two dogs sequestered together when they started to fight and managed to pop the door to their containment area open. The pro-racing faction excoriated the rescue group who took him in because that group didn't immediately notify the registered owner that his dog had been turned in to them in dire need of emergency treatment. Never mind the fact that the hauler knew Petey D./Freeway had gotten loose. In fact, the hauler waited for 30 minutes for the missing greyhound to come back, then continued on his haul. Never mind that nobody at the receiving end of that haul bothered to notify the owner that his greyhound had not shown up at the destination track. When he was contacted, the owner immediately surrendered Petey D./Freeway to the rescue group. I guess that makes sense, otherwise he would have been on the hook for the thousands of dollars that it has already cost to attempt to restore this greyhound to some modicum of health. Greyhounds are, after all, an investment. They're a commodity in the eyes of the racing industry. And when they are no longer profitable, they are disposable. It's easy enough to replace a non-winning greyhound - there are thousands of them bred every year.

Speaking of haulers and lost dogs...what ever happened to Lonnie Boyle, the hauler who arrived at an Arizona track with EIGHT dead dogs in his trailer? Oh, that's right, he's hauling dogs for Tucson Greyhound Park. I mean, it's not like he did anything wrong in the eyes of the industry, right? Well, nothing serious enough to have lasting consequences anyway.

Yes, these are two isolated incidents. Unfortunately, there are many more "isolated incidents."

By the way, the "worst kind of abuse" is not presenting a dog as an unfortunate victim of unscrupulous owners. There are far worse abuses than that. Seriously.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

Emmaaeri said:


> Lots of energy, very fast, and has lots of muscle if you feed it the right things! These dogs are sweet, loving, and cute! You may want to be a little carefull if you get one from the shelter, though. They may be mistreated or abused, and scared.


Emmaaeri, it's probably best for a novice adopter to adopt through a greyhound adoption group. The vast majority of those groups will provide ongoing support of the adoptive family, answering questions, etc. Such support is unlikely to be available for a dog adopted from a shelter. But you're right with your description of the breed - they're sweet, loving, and cute as all get-out.


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## EricJackson (May 31, 2012)

We were at an adoption fair today, and it was great to see the greyhounds lounging in their kiddie pool. Beau, a big fawn male, loves to get in and "dig" at the water.


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