# Need help deciding between Fromms and Wellness



## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Good evening! I'm looking to slowly transition my 16 week old Engish bulldog pup from C. Natural Lamb and rice puppy formula to an all stages formula designed for sensitive stomachs. My dog has soft stools on C. Natural and this food is just not working for him. I've done extensive research and my criteria is a food with protein between 20-25% (bulldogs shouldn't be on high protein food), an appropriate level of fat and calories for a growing pup and simple ingredients. I've narrowed it down to two formulas of Fromms and Wellness simple, which are both supposed to be good for dogs with sensitive tummies. I've included the ingredient list and nutritional analysis of all three and would love to hear if anyone feels one would be better than the other--or if anyone has suggestions for another food I should look into that is designed for dogs with sensitive tummies. Also if anyone has used either of these foods to positive or negative effect I'd love to hear about it. Sorry for the length of this post and thanks in advance!

Fromm Family Foods Fromm 
Four Star duck and sweet potato

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 24% Min 
Fat 15% Min 
Fiber 3% Max 
Moisture 10% Max 
Ash 6.5% Max 
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.6% Min 
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.4% Min 
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min 
Bifidobacterium Longum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min 
Lactobacillus Plantarum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min 
Enterococcous Faecium 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min

Calorie Content:
kcal/gm: 3.968 | oz/cup: 3.3 | kcal/lb: 1,800 | kcal/cup: 370 


Ingredients:
Duck, Duck Meal, Pearled Barley, Sweet Potato, Brown Rice, Oatmeal, White Rice, Whole Dried Egg, Millet, Dried Tomato Pomace, Safflower Oil, Cheese, Flaxseed, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Green Beans, Lecithin, Chicken Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Folic Acid, Parsley, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Longum, Enterococcous Faecium, Vitamin A, D3, E, B12 Supplements, Choline Bitartrate, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sorbic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite. 



Fromm Family Foods Fromm salmon a la veg
Calorie Content:
kcal/lb: 1,850 | kcal/cup: 405 


Ingredients:
Salmon, Salmon Meal, Brown Rice, Sweet Potato, Pearled Barley, Potato, Oatmeal, White Rice, Whole Dried Egg, Salmon Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Millet, Dried Tomato Pomace, Safflower Oil, Cheese, Flaxseed, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Lecithin, Chicken Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Monosodium Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Folic Acid, Parsley, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Longum, Enterococcous Faecium, Vitamin A, D3, E, B12 Supplements, Choline Bitartrate, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sorbic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite.


Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 25% Min 
Fat 16% Min 
Fiber 3.5% Max 
Moisture 10% Max 
Ash 6.5% Max 
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.7% Min 
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.5% Min 
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min 
Bifidobacterium Longum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min 
Lactobacillus Plantarum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min 
Enterococcous Faecium 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min

WELLNESS SIMPLE
Salmon Ingredients: Ground Rice, Salmon, Salmon Meal, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Tomato Pomace, Natural Fish Flavor, Potassium Choloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Cooper Sulfate, Cooper Proteinate, manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Choline Chloride, Taurine. 

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 20% min, Crude Fat 12% min, Crude Fiber 3% max, Moisture 11% max, Omega 6 Fatty Acids 1.75% min, Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0..75% min


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## sagira (Nov 5, 2009)

Both look good. I would go with Wellness just because I know more about the company.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Both look good. Personally I've used that kind of Fromm before and really liked it.


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## StarfishSaving (Nov 7, 2008)

I don't like anything but meat as the first two ingredients on a bag, so for a dog with no health issues I wouldn't go with that Wellness Simple. But there's no real reason not to feed any of those foods if you aren't dealing with any allergies.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. The fact that rice was the first ingredient before Salmon bothered me too about Wellness Simple!


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> Both look good. Personally I've used that kind of Fromm before and really liked it.


Glad to hear you had a positive experience,Laurelin. I haven't had one person on my other forums say a bad thing about Fromm so I think I'm going to give it a shot! I'm leaning toward the Salmon formula. My only concern is that the salmon oil supplements I tried didn't seem to agree with his tummy so I'm wondering if that means he has a problem with salmon... Guess there is only one way to find out!


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## evinqubie (Jul 26, 2009)

Fromm is pretty good.
I've tried all the flavors, and they are all good.
My dog is a Maltese mixed, and she used to have tear stain problem, but not anymore after eating Fromm.
Her stool becomes solid with nice shape and color.
Wellness is a good brand too, but I haven't tried it yet.
BTW my dog is really sensitive, she can have diarrhea anytime she feels stressed, but Fromm works really well on keeping her stool normal.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

evinqubie said:


> Fromm is pretty good.
> I've tried all the flavors, and they are all good.
> My dog is a Maltese mixed, and she used to have tear stain problem, but not anymore after eating Fromm.
> Her stool becomes solid with nice shape and color.
> ...


Thanks for the insight...it's much appreciated! Glad it works for your pup. Hopefully it will for mine too!!


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## Linz (Feb 7, 2010)

Hey there! I have a pup with food issues as well (diarrhea probs, sensitive tummy, allergies (we think!), hair loss, etc) and I'm going to try Fromm too. I actually bought a bag of the salmon to try with her! Let me know how it goes with yours! I'm hopeful with Fromm's - heard good things so far!!!


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi Linz,

Glad to hear that you've heard good things about this food too. I haven't heard one person say anything negative about Fromm. According to the website this is a good food for sensitive tummies.your pup? I'm going to pick up a bag of food tomorrow and slowly transition to it. How old is your pup, what food are you currently using and are you going to do a slow transition? We should definitely compare notes after we start this and see how it goes. If my pup doesn't take to it, I'll try the Duck and sweet potato formula next!

Here is a link with some other positive reviews of this food:

http://www.nationalpetpharmacy.com/...lCjCWR2RJVRW&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse

Good luck and thanks for the reply!


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## MaddiesMom (Nov 8, 2007)

Maddie has been on Fromm for a year and a half and is doing great on it! We used to have her on Blue Buffalo, but she grew tired of it. 

When she was smaller, she would get bored with her food. So, I had Fromm and Merrick to switch off. One day she decided she was done with Merrick and has only eaten Fromm since. 

I like that it is a USA based company and also based in our home state of Wisconsin (made in Mequon, WI). Since it is based here in Wisconsin, quite a few places carry it. I actually get mine at the local hardware store - they are the cheapest around! But our local grain co-ops carry it and the better, private owned dog food stores too. 

Pricewise it is competitive with other "premium" kibble. 

Maddie's favorite flavor is the duck and sweet potato. I have also given her the reduced activity when she starts looking pudgy and she likes that one too. She wasn't keen on the surf and turf - she's doesn't like any food with fish in it. 

We tried Wellness, but the kibble was too big for Maddie and she wouldn't eat it. 

FYI - I don't know if your dog likes canned food, but Fromm canned gave Maddie horrible gas - she loved Merrick canned, but she no longer gets canned food (it was making her too fat).


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks for your post about Fromm! I picked up a small bag of the salmon a la vegetable to try. I opted to go with this Salmon instead of the duck for now because the salmon is a little higher in calories and Tuffy is only 17 weeks old. But I've heard raves about the duck formula so that one may be next if the salmon doesn't work out. The pet store said they'd take back the food as long as there is still half a bag left...which is a good thing since this food is kind of pricey where I live--nearly $20 for a small bag! Thanks for the heads up regarding the canned. I'm not planning on starting on canned because I heard that once you start the dog won't eat dry kibble alone. And since Bulldogs are notorious for having gas I have no interest in giving him a food that may create a problem.Thankfully right now my pup doesn't have that problem...just soft stools! Glad you found a food that works for Maddie!!


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## MaddiesMom (Nov 8, 2007)

May I ask were you live? 

$20 for the small bag is expensive. I only pay $11 at the most for the small bag of Fromm. That's if I do the duck and sweet potato. The reduced activity is $9. 

If you have a local grain co-op (a place that sells farm animal feed) or hardware store (most have a little pet department), see if they have Fromm. It also doesn't hurt to ask them if they would consider carrying Fromm. 

That's what happened with our local hardware store - someone asked and the owners have been very happy that they took Fromm on. They have heard very happy reviews from customers. 

$20 is hard to swallow, but the things we do for our dogs!

By the way, Maddie's stool is firm, so I hope your pup's will firm up on Fromm.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Great news about the firm poop...that's what I'm aiming for!

We live in Stamford, CT, which is about an hour from NYC. I suppose I should add that to my profile... Everything is notoriously expensive in this area. I see it's much cheaper to buy online so if my pup takes to it I might end up going that route. Not many farm animal feed stores in my area! But I will check around regarding hardware stores...

I gave Tuffy a taste of the Salmon and he seems to really like it but I'm kind of shocked by the tiny size of the kibble. It's like a quarter of the size of the kibble of his C. Natural puppy formula. From your profile pic it looks like you have a small dog ( A chiuaua perhaps?) so I can seem the small bites working best for a dog like yours (if he liked fish, which you said he doesn't). But mine didn't seem to mind the small size so who knows. I have a question about switching back and forth with the different varieties. The website says that the 4 star formula is designed to interchange with the different flavors. Did you have to do the slow transition thing when you tried each new flavor or just go cold turkey...?

Thanks!


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## MaddiesMom (Nov 8, 2007)

Maddie is a Pug/Boston Terrier mix. She's two and half years old now. The picture on my profile was when she was a puppy. 

She weighs 21 pounds now. 

Yes, Fromm kibble is smaller, but you might not have to feed your dog as much because it is better quality food.


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## MaddiesMom (Nov 8, 2007)

Oh, I forgot your other question. Maddie has never had a problem with switching food. She never got the pukes or runs - she's a champ in that regard!

Some dogs get upset bellies with food changes. So, people recommend mixing the old food with the new food (half old - half new). You can try that. 

If your dog hates the old food - give them the new stuff and keep an eye on them.

If you stay in the Fromm line you should be fine.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I had way better results with Fromm than I did with Wellness. With Wellness, both dogs I was feeding it to at the time had soft stool. Oh and I tried Wellness a couple of times (different formulas), just to give it a chance and always had the same results.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Fromm 4-Star is a favorite at our house! I have used all the flavors for my 4 dogs. They have done well on all of them. I also use their treats (they have some new grain-free ones!). Their cans used to be made in a USDA factory in China, BUT they are making their cans in the USA now!!!! Yay! The grain-free treats and cans are new. I have already bought the treats, but can't find the cans anywhere near me yet. Right now, my dogs aren't eating Fromm kibble, but we will go back to it soon, I think.


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## GreyWolf11 (Feb 8, 2010)

Fromm all the way. It is still a private distributor which ensures quality of ingredients. Wellness being a nationalized company has recently had to downgrade their ingredient quality in order to meet the demand. Private companies are the way to go.


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## sagira (Nov 5, 2009)

GreyWolf11 said:


> Wellness being a nationalized company has recently had to downgrade their ingredient quality in order to meet the demand. Private companies are the way to go.


Just curious. Where did you get this information? Big companies aren't automatically bad just because they're big. Could you point me to proof of this claim?

Nothing against Fromm, and it looks like a great company, but I know Wellness also started as a small company. Should it be penalized for growing and expanding or being bought?

Not meaning to sound accusatory or snarky, just curious


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

StellaLucyDesi said:


> Fromm 4-Star is a favorite at our house! I have used all the flavors for my 4 dogs. They have done well on all of them. I also use their treats (they have some new grain-free ones!). Their cans used to be made in a USDA factory in China, BUT they are making their cans in the USA now!!!! Yay! The grain-free treats and cans are new. I have already bought the treats, but can't find the cans anywhere near me yet. Right now, my dogs aren't eating Fromm kibble, but we will go back to it soon, I think.


Glad to hear that you have good things to say about Fromms. We started introducing it yesterday (mixed in with the C. natural puppy kibble) and my pup goes crazy for the Salmon a la vegetable formula. And I already notice firmer poop even from the 25% that's added in. Just curious...why did you stop and what kibble are you using now? Also when you switched between the different varieties of the 4-star did you slowly transition to each one or just go cold turkey from say the duck to the pork? I think I'll just stick to the dry kibble for now. My only complaint is that fromms is very expensive in my area so I may just do half of Fromms mixed in with half of his old dog food...


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

MaddiesMom said:


> Oh, I forgot your other question. Maddie has never had a problem with switching food. She never got the pukes or runs - she's a champ in that regard!
> 
> Some dogs get upset bellies with food changes. So, people recommend mixing the old food with the new food (half old - half new). You can try that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for answering my question regarding switching between other formulas. That's pretty much what I figured because the website says these foods are designed to go back and forth. I'll love to see a pic of what Maddie looks like now!! Tuffy's poop is already firmer and that's with only a small amount of the salmon so I'm already thrilled!


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Sorry so long to answer your question. I actually switch foods every now and then for my dogs. Right now 3 are eating NV Instinct and my male, Desi, is eating CORE Reduced Fat (he's on a diet). They get can food on top of their kibble mixed with water. I use Instinct, Evangers, Merrick, CORE, etc. cans. Then they get premade raw in the pm. I was using NV medallions in various flavors, but lately have been using Primal raw nuggets. Sometimes I will give them The Honest Kitchen Embark or Force. As you can see, I like to give my dogs a lot of variety LOL! I use a prob/enzyme supplement when transitioning. Now, though, they seem to be used to variety and I don't have much problem with stools. To answer your question specifically about Fromm...they did not have any problems switching from the different flavors. I would switch after each bag. I always buy the smallest size bags because my dogs do not eat that much at a time and I like it to be as fresh as possible.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

StellaLucyDesi--I don't know how you do it! My head is spinning from reading about this complex rotation system you have set up for your pups. I can barely manage to mix two brands of kibble together! You are clearly an expert on this feeding thing and one devoted puppy mama. It's great that your dogs adapt so well...I don't think that would work for my pup because he has a very sensitive tummy. If we give him a little bit of deli roast beef he gets tummy upset! I would love to know what kind of enzyme you give to help with the transition though! That may be beneficial for my pup.

Thanks!


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Your puppy is soooo cute! Thanks for the kind words! Actually, my rotations isn't as complicated in practice as it sounds lol. Two of my favorite supplements for transitioning to new foods are Eagle Pack Holistic Transitions (made especially for transitioning to new foods...it contains probiotics and enzymes to help digest the food properly) and Eagle Pack Holistic Solutions (it has prebiotics, probiotics and enzymes and is used when dogs get an upset stomach or loose stool). Either of these work when transitioning to new foods. Another favorite is Ark Naturals Gentle Digest (contains prebiotics and probiotics) and I also like Optagest (contains enzymes). Any of these work just fine. I still mix the food slowly, as well.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks--this is great. I may try the Eagle Pack. My dog has such a sensitive digestive system and it's very frustrating. He was doing good on the Fromms as I began the transition but now I'm not sure. In the a.m. his stool is nice and firm but as the day progresses it gets looser. My husband thinks it's from all the snow he eats when we take him out. I'll keep at it for a few more days to see how it goes!! Your pups are very cute too! And I see you have a houseful of hukids too!! I have three hukids of my own...


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Linz said:


> Hey there! I have a pup with food issues as well (diarrhea probs, sensitive tummy, allergies (we think!), hair loss, etc) and I'm going to try Fromm too. I actually bought a bag of the salmon to try with her! Let me know how it goes with yours! I'm hopeful with Fromm's - heard good things so far!!!


Hi Linz,

How is the Salmon a la vegetable working out for you? At first when I began transitioning (25% Fromms/75% C. Natural puppy) I saw an improvement but then I slowly increased to 50/50 and now I'm back to soft poop. I even tried increasing the Fromm to 75% and it was worse. So I'm wondering if I should try a different formula...like duck or pork? The only time the poop is firm is first thing in the morning after we let him out. Hope yo are having better luck!


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## Cobalt (Jul 27, 2007)

My girls are have soft poo from almost everything except Fromm Surf and Turf. They are soft on the other Fromm formulas so right now I am trying to mix Chicken ala veg and Surf and Turf. I also give pure canned pumpkin when messing with food and that helps soft poo. 

They are 20# and like the small kibble.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi Cobalt,

Thanks for the update! I'm not overly impressed with the Salmon a la vegetable for firming up the poop either. Are you mixing in the Chicken a la vegetable because the Surf and Turf is grain free? My only reservation with trying Surf and Turf is that it's high in protein and too much protein supposedly isn't good for the large breed dogs, like an English Bulldog. But I may give it a shot if all else fails...

Best of luck!


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## Linz (Feb 7, 2010)

Hey kimrisa.... My pug baby has a VERY sensitive digestive system. I usually mix her foods for WEEKS before completely changing her over. I still had a pretty big bag of the last food she was eating so I had been just giving her a little bit of the Salmon a la veg at a time. haha but now she won't eat AT ALL unless I give her a little bit of the Fromm's food mixed in - she just loves it! So far I haven't had any problems with her eating it at all, which is quite impressive for her. No loose stools (unless she gets into something she shouldn't - like my roomie's dog food (Canidae) which is TERRIBLE on her tummy) So far so good! but it'll probably be another few weeks at least before she's eating ONLY Fromms. Maybe your baby is like mine and needs longer than they say to switch foods....?


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## Cobalt (Jul 27, 2007)

I would first check out the protein, that is a worry with large breeds. I also don't think we are supposed to mix two foods regularly, only when switching. Try some pumpkin, 1 tablespoon twice a day and see if that helps. Give it another week, some are more sensitive. If still soft then I might try something else. 

I have 2 dogs aged 1 and 2 both about 20#. I had them on Natural Balance Ultra Premium but one dog had diarrhea suddenly for a week and the other threw up and went into shock. Not saying it was the food but vet is keeping her "ears" open. That was enough to make me switch and I do switch anyway from time to time. I think I get bored with their food.

I switched them both to Fromms Surf and Turf fast, over 3 days and I expected to have a runny mess. Mia who had the diarrhea was better in 1 day and Luna never got soft at all. Normally when I switch Mia does get soft for a bit even when I go slow. 

Two days ago I went to buy more Surf and Turf and got a smaller bag to mix in to try to reduce protein a bit because we are in a condo and the higher the protein, the more their urine kills the grass. Not that I care but my neighbors do. 

Both dogs are having softer poos right now so I am going to go back to just Surf and Turf. 

I have tried the other Fromm formulas before with Mia because I want to feed a dog food that is made an hour from my house. I trust the company. But, they make her soft so I can't use anything but Surf and Turf. What I don't like about Surf is that it stinks! But they love it so I'll deal with it. It is very $$ for two dogs as well. I'll just go through the drive thru one less time per week!

When Mia and Luna were puppies I used Innova Puppy and California Natural, oh and Canadae until they switched the formula. Don't even try that with a sensitive dog now. 

Good luck

Edited to add that I looked at Innova Puppy and it's 26% protein. Only 1% off of your guideline. It's not made in WI though! I would not feed Surf to your puppy. Not even mixed in, it's high in protein.


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## kimrisa (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi Linz...great news that the transition is working well for you! I will stick with the two foods for a while too. Maybe the combo of the two foods I'm giving (c. natural and Salmon a la veg) is just not working though. Just curious--what old food are you using and how much total food are you feeding per meal? I'm trying to decrease the feeding amount I'm giving to see if it helps. I'm still trying to figure out why the poop is firm first thing in the morning and then goes south...!


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## Linz (Feb 7, 2010)

My girl was eating the salmon PureVita food. She gets 1/2 cup twice/day. I think right now she's getting about 75% old, 25% new. I'll be adding more of the new once I get closer to the bottom of the bag! She was doing OK on the PureVita but I want to find a food with more varieties available because she does get bored with the food after a bit and will stop eating it.


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