# Class-action lawsuit against Purina



## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Somebody filed a class-action lawsuit against Purina, alleging that Beneful has been sickening/killing lots of dogs: http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...ens-and-kills-dogs/ar-BBhXskT?ocid=ansfinap11

I actually just saw this on my cat forum . I wonder why the news hasn't gotten around as much as previous allegations. Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

It was mentioned on the radio this morning during the normal morning DJ chit-chat. And on my local news websites.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I've seen it all over FB. 

The problem with stuff like this is that there is almost never real, solid evidence of a link because the food never gets tested and people don't do necropsies (autopsies) on their pets. So everyone jumps on the bandwagon but who knows if there really IS causation instead of correlation? it can't be established without evidence. (ETA: I don't know if that's the case here or not, but if there was solid evidence of contamination I can't imagine that there wouldn't have been a recall by now.)


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I guess the main plaintiff is claiming the damage is caused by propylene glycol, which is a deliberately added ingredient, so it's not really "contamination". Other foods have contained propylene glycol, though, and I don't know if any of them have been accused of causing problems. 

Although it must have caused some proveable damage in cats. I remember when Tender Vittles were the big bad thing (although I didn't know why at the time), at least the fuss brought the issue to the attention of the right people because it's not allowed in cat food anymore. 

So maybe someone will find that it does cause damage in dogs as well. Or some dogs? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out anyway.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Propylene glycol is pretty commonly and apparently safely used as a softening agent in treats and some foods. Hopefully someone tested the food and found elevated/excessive levels, or they won't have much of a leg to stand on. But again, if that had happened there would be a recall.

More likely, IMO, some lawyers are hoping Purina settles to make this go away.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Best thing about this whole thing? It puts Beneful in a negative light with the public, and you know what? I am perfectly okay with that!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Just saw this article posted on FB, should be interesting to see what happens.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/money/consumer/taking-action-for-you/a-lab-report-indicates-popular-dog-food-may-contain-toxic-substances?autoplay=true


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Aren't mycotoxins found in just about anything with feed corn in it? I suppose it depends on the concentrations. 

When cat owners were first discovering that propylene glycol is dangerous to cats, I'm sure they were being gaslighted by the pet food companies in just the same way. What might be safe for the limited time of a feeding trial might not be safe when ingested daily for years and years. It could have a cumulative effect.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

^^ How long has Beneful contained it, though? Unless they've changed their formula recently, there are plenty of dogs who have been ingesting it for years and years.

I don't really see how what's going on here is gaslighting? The standard for wanting evidence to establish causation vs correlation is gaslighting now?


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Sounds to me like a baseless lawsuit.

The story says
_In the suit, Lucido alleges that in the past four years, 3,000 consumers have complained online about dogs becoming ill or dying after eating Beneful, having shown "consistent symptoms," including stomach and related internal bleeding, liver malfunction or failure, vomiting, diarrhea, dehydration, weight loss, seizures and kidney failure._

That's a long list of symptoms, and I don't see how they are "consistent". I wouldn't be surprised if an equivalent number of dogs have died of one or more of these symptoms after eating other brands as well. Dogs do become ill, and eventually die. They've all been eating some food before this happens. One of the guy's dogs was a 8 yr old bulldog. Life expectancy for a bulldog is 6 years. The other two dogs survived and were not autopsied. 

The toxicology reports on propylene glycol (approved by FDA as a food additive) show that very high dose chronic inhalation will eventually kill monkeys but "Gastrointestinal Effects. In rhesus monkeys and rats, continuous exposure to air concentrations ofpropylene glycol up to 112 ppm for 13-18 months caused no adverse effects on the gastrointestinal system (Robertson et al. 1947). The work done back in the 1940s seems to have shown that the stuff isn't dangerous added to foods in small amounts. As others have noted, ethylene glycol is used in antifreeze . . . and it is deadly to dogs and cats.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp189.pdf

Mycotoxins just means fungal toxins. They can arise in virtually any dry dog food if it is stored improperly, particularly if out of date.

That said, I wouldn't feed Beneful . . . or any other cheap food with multi-colored kibble.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

The studies showed that it was safe for cats too. . .until ya know, they found out it wasn't.



> I don't really see how what's going on here is gaslighting? The standard for wanting evidence to establish causation vs correlation is gaslighting now?


Except Purina isn't saying "oh, no, that's terrible, we'll get our scientists to check it out right away!", they're saying "it's perfectly safe, you're nuts, go away".


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

As snobby as this may sound, I find it laughable that people will deliberately feed their pets kibble that looks like skittles and is full of sugar and cancer causing chemicals, and then pout like a baby when the animal get sick. Like who didn't see that coming? Beneful is 100% the WORST food available. 
I agree that anything that gives them bad press is a-okay with me, but I'm a big believer in prevention rather than solution.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I dunno. I can't really blame people for thinking it's an OK food with all the fancy commercials and hype. One of my friends told me she switched her dog to a new food, "it's really healthy and expensive!" and it turned out to be Beneful :/ (yes, I got her to switch to something less colorful and sugary). Not everyone knows what to look for in a dog food. Not everyone knows that maybe eating Cap'n Crunchberries every day might not be the best thing .


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> As snobby as this may sound, I find it laughable that people will deliberately feed their pets kibble that looks like skittles and is full of sugar and cancer causing chemicals, and then pout like a baby when the animal get sick. Like who didn't see that coming? Beneful is 100% the WORST food available.
> I agree that anything that gives them bad press is a-okay with me, but I'm a big believer in prevention rather than solution.


While I think Beneful is pretty darn poor quality food, its definitely not the worst if you ever go by a dollar store or discount market and read ingredients. People see that it comes from a well known, name brand company (Purina), many people remember feeding childhood dogs Purina Dog Chow et al for years with no trouble, and the bag does a good job of marketing compared to some of the really cheap stuff. I mean, there's one bag that is all white with the words like "Dog Food" on it and the ingredients on the back. I can definitely see people thinking, "Well, at least its a brand name"


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think Purina has hyped Beneful up past "at least it's brand-name". I might say that about Alpo or Dog Chow. But the Beneful commercials have made people think that it's a Really Great Dog Food that your Really Great Dog deserves to be fed :/. I'm pretty sure that if you polled a bunch of random people about whether Beneful or regular Dog Chow was healthier for their dog, most would pick Beneful.

(and, well, except for the sugar and propylene glycol, I guess it is slightly better. Second ingredient is chicken by-product meal instead of meat and bone meal like Dog Chow. But still, that added sugar, at least, should really ring some alarm bells)


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Maybe, I don't have TV so i don't see commercials but you get my idea in general. 

Take for example Kroger Value chunk dog food:

Ground yellow corn, wheat middlings, soybean meal, meat and bone meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), salt, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, niacin, copper sulfate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, manganous oxide, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin supplement, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin D supplement, cobalt carbonate

Versus Beneful Original:
ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, rice flour, beef, soy flour, meat and bone meal, propylene glycol, sugar, tricalcium phosphate, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, animal digest, sorbic acid (a preservative), mono and dicalcium phosphate, dried spinach, dried peas, dried carrots, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, Red 40, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, Yellow 6, Yellow 5, copper sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, Blue 2, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

They look about the same except the meat meal is named in Beneful and Beneful has a crap load more chemicals and food colorings. It has more vegetables too but while those have nutrients they're not exactly necessary in a dog's diet.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Kayota said:


> They look about the same except the meat meal is named in Beneful and Beneful has a crap load more chemicals and food colorings. It has more vegetables too but while those have nutrients they're not exactly necessary in a dog's diet.


The meat and bone meal is the first animal sourced protein in the Kroger food and it is listed 4th while at least the Beneful has chicken by-product meal 2nd. Kroger food is preserved with BHA which _may_ be a carcinigen. Both have the questinable souce of Vitamin K. Beneful has what appears to be a slightly better source of grains. Beneful has more artificial colors but both have similar micronutrients. The vegetables are kind of a non issue as they may not be needed but generally are't harmful either.

Basically, neither is a "good" food, but i was referring to the comment that Beneful is 100% the worst out there. I don't think it is the "100% worst" even though it sure isn't good are all IMO.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I saw a very strange video where a man is video taping his dog laying there while his wife picks up the paw and drops it and keeps saying "Look at this dog just laying here, she can't move, it is because of Beneful" on an on. The only thing I kept thinking was, If my dog was behaving like that, I would be on my way to the vet instead of screwing around taping it and trying to blame a food company when you don't even have a diagnosis yet. I agree that Beneful is NOT a good food but I think people should wait for the facts to come out, the dust to settle and see what is really going on before flipping out.

Anyone feeding that food however, might want to consider something else.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I can do that to roxie when she is relaxed or asleep... are you sure the dog was even in a bad way? Lol


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Kayota said:


> I can do that to roxie when she is relaxed or asleep... are you sure the dog was even in a bad way? Lol



Well that is just it, who knows. If my dog were acting that way and it wasn't just super relaxed, I would be rushing it to the vet. If you were looking for a video tape for evidence then you would get that once the dog was at the vet and getting any help you could offer it. To me, it made the whole thing a bit LESS believable.


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

I live in Toronto and have never seen dog food sold in a dollar store. In fact, we have very few dollar stores left around here. Beneful is probably the worst I've seen. It's scary that you guys have access to even grosser food.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> I live in Toronto and have never seen dog food sold in a dollar store. In fact, we have very few dollar stores left around here. Beneful is probably the worst I've seen. It's scary that you guys have access to even grosser food.


Dollar General is expanding like crazy around here. There are some very very poor rural areas and small towns and a lot of them have only a small supermarket and a dollar store as far as basic grocery and household good type stores go. Tractor Supply and Rural King are in some areas and have quite good options and some hardware stores carry horse and dog food but yeah, there are plenty of people who would consider Beneful as one of the better choices on the shelf at the local grocery.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> I live in Toronto and have never seen dog food sold in a dollar store. In fact, we have very few dollar stores left around here. Beneful is probably the worst I've seen. It's scary that you guys have access to even grosser food.


Oh yeah, it is hard to believe but it is true, there is worse food out there. Probably about as much nutrition as a dog chewing on an old shoe. Sad to think that there are people out there that value their dogs so little. I once watched a woman buy several bags of SPROUT dog food and then load it into a Cadillac Escalade. I thought "Now there are some screwed up priorities" but each to their own, I guess.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

I'm pretty skeptical about all claims, good and bad, made about dog food. You can harm a dog by feeding too much, and there are probably diets that will make a dog sick, but dogs can thrive on a wide variety of diets, including some that most of us would consider 'crappy'.

I used to have neighbors who had a 22 year old Westie. The dog had been fed supermarket food and table scraps all its life. At 22 he still walked fine, and wasn't blind, deaf, or incontinent. His owner used to walk him to the supermarket -- about a mile -- a couple times a week. Not the only oldie I've met who was fed all the 'wrong' stuff. My current neighbors have a 17 year old Labrador who is fed only kibble, and not the highest grade. She's slowing down, but still pulls on the leash and shows no signs of arthritis, blindness, deafness or incontinence.


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## NicoleIsStoked (Aug 31, 2012)

I used to work with a lady who had a rescued lab/shepherd mix that she fed "raw meat, pasta, whatever I'm eating that night and a handful of pedigree kibble for his teeth" ...so completely inconsistent and likely very unbalanced and he lived to be 23.


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## Brodythegoldendoodle (Mar 2, 2015)

I am no PR person for Purina, but the company has been in previous class action lawsuits that were found to be false. I believe what happens here is that owners who have dogs that die early because of health problems immediately start looking for answers instead of normal disease / health problems that could have caused. The first inclination is to look at dog food, and knowing that lots of dogs eat Purina its not suprise these are large lawsuits. I am not going to sit here and attack Purina with no evidence... just won't do it. I am not really in on the holistic and grain free dog food groups. I just don't see the evidence for it. A lot of the scientific "studies" on both sides are baseless. I just trust in my Vet who has kept my pets healthy for many years. She wisely told me "No matter what you food your dog, someone is going to tell you its bad for your dog". My Vet told me from her experience that every dog is different, and its a matter of finding a food that the dog enjoys and keeps their digestive track healthy. Some dogs just digest store brand food better than any grain free "super" food... I personally have done research on Purina and I believe they are a good company. I've read so many articles of by-product practices and china allegations at Purina, but the only actual evidence I have found is that Purina uses nutrional organs in their by-products and no "bones beaks feets" things people say. 

I have had one dog that lived long on Purina, and one dog that has done best on Blue Wilderness. Some dogs benefit from grains, some do not. Just like us Humans we all have different stomachs. Until there is a verdict on this case, I am not holding judgement on Purina.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> I used to work with a lady who had a rescued lab/shepherd mix that she fed "raw meat, pasta, whatever I'm eating that night and a handful of pedigree kibble for his teeth" ...so completely inconsistent and likely very unbalanced and he lived to be 23.


Honestly, I think if the dog wasn't being fed a lot of things that were just downright bad for it (ie: onion/garlic/etc.), a 'whatever I eat' is actually probably healthier than what ends up in most dog food. At least most grocery store dog food. Dogs DID evolve eating human garbage, after all, so it's closer to what their ancestors ate than Blue Buffalo and their spiel.

And, really, I don't argue with results. I mean, I'm not feeding Beneful, but I am feeding something the dog food adviser gives a whole star and a half. I have the same poop, coat quality, energy, and health (including blood work) feeding it as I did when feeding Wellness Core, and similar 5 star foods. I'm not spending the money on the expensive stuff anymore, because it made no difference in the dog's health.

Well, no, I lied. It IMPROVED Jack's health, pretty markedly, because he finally gained and kept weight on.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> I used to work with a lady who had a rescued lab/shepherd mix that she fed "raw meat, pasta, whatever I'm eating that night and a handful of pedigree kibble for his teeth" ...so completely inconsistent and likely very unbalanced and he lived to be 23.


Depending on how much meat the dog was getting and what the other foods were, that could be a surprisingly healthy diet. cooked pasta is just another grain based carb like in many dog foods but generally fortified with calcium and a few micronutrients for humans. So reasonably healthy. May dry kibbles tend to over compensate on the minerals and such so he probably got a decent serving there. The raw meat, especially if sometimes red meat, would have a good portion of the protein and fat needed to balance the pasta. And then whatever the leftovers were quite possibly added a decent amount of fat since we humans tend to like the flavor of fat (in meat, oils, dairy etc, which would all be okay for a dog)

Overall though, aside from actually dangerous or contaminated foods, I think a lot of it comes down to genetics, quantity of food and exercise. Just like for humans. Some people live to be 90 years old smoking cigs and drinking each night but its not the best idea. Some people eat well and exercise and die at 50. Most people end up somewhere inbetween with a lifestyle somewhat inbetween. 

I think there is likely more flexibility for adults than for puppies since there is reasonably good information to show that things like calcium matter more, esp for large breed. Same with for dogs known to have kidney problems or prone to urinary crystals and such, where being more "exact" in nutrient balance can be more than just watching body condition, coat and poop.

But we humans have to pick up our dogs poop and live with their farts and stinky breath if the food doesn't agree with the dog, so that alone can propel people towards "better" foods, whatever better means for a given dog, and yeah, most of the dogs i know that get a lot of scraps and cheap foods? They can clear a room with a fart and poop half a dozen times a day.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

NicoleIsStoked said:


> I live in Toronto and have never seen dog food sold in a dollar store. In fact, we have very few dollar stores left around here. Beneful is probably the worst I've seen. It's scary that you guys have access to even grosser food.


I live in whats considered a "food desert" aka an urban (low income) area that has at least a mile radius with no grocery stores. We just had a big-lots type store open up that is also adding a teeny grocery section, so everyone (myself included) is SOOPER excited.

Grocery section not added yet so curious if it will change, but currently Beneful is the BEST dog food they carry. The worst I've seen doesn't even have a brand that I can find, is literally just a midsized (10-15 lb?) yellow bag that says DOG FOOD Comida de Perro on it, with a pre-printed $4.99 label, almost every grocery store here carries it. I think any sort of meat anything is like the 5th ingredient. I didn't even know 18/8 dog food was legal until I saw it, LOL.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I'd feed Dog Chow over Beneful. I'd feed Dog Chow over any of the cheap foods, honestly. The sugar/propylene glycol/SO MUCH food coloring (yeah, Dog Chow has coloring too but not as much) in Beneful just makes it something I wouldn't want to put in my dog on a daily basis. Plus Beneful isn't cheap; nearly a dollar a pound at Walmart, more at the grocery/dollar stores. So that's probably what bugs me most about Beneful. It's just another junk food but they hype it up so much and charge more for it. I mostly just can't believe they put SUGAR in dog food and anybody thinks that's acceptable :/. Of course other semi-moist foods have sugar too (Moist-n-meaty, etc.) but I don't think those are quite so popular as Beneful.

Yeah, there is a lack of availability in a lot of areas. The town I live in has a Dollar General and a grocery store. So that's good, even though they charge a lot more than the grocery stores in Sioux Falls (have to expect some markup for the tranportation, I guess). And the fresh produce selection is dismal. Plus the vet carries a full line of Diamond products. But I've been working in a small town 20 miles away, there are 400 people in that town and they have no grocery store. One of their two gas stations has basics---mostly non-perishables, at a large markup of course---but the closest actual grocery store is the one in my town. 20 miles! I think they have a farm supply store, though, so ironically they probably have a better selection for dog food than people food .

Anyway, rambling. . .Dog Chow is usually available almost anywhere and I'd recommend it over Beneful.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Willowy said:


> I'd feed Dog Chow over Beneful. I'd feed Dog Chow over any of the cheap foods, honestly. The sugar/propylene glycol/SO MUCH food coloring (yeah, Dog Chow has coloring too but not as much) in Beneful just makes it something I wouldn't want to put in my dog on a daily basis. Plus Beneful isn't cheap; nearly a dollar a pound at Walmart, more at the grocery/dollar stores. So that's probably what bugs me most about Beneful. It's just another junk food but they hype it up so much and charge more for it. I mostly just can't believe they put SUGAR in dog food and anybody thinks that's acceptable :/. Of course other semi-moist foods have sugar too (Moist-n-meaty, etc.) but I don't think those are quite so popular as Beneful.
> 
> Yeah, there is a lack of availability in a lot of areas. The town I live in has a Dollar General and a grocery store. So that's good, even though they charge a lot more than the grocery stores in Sioux Falls (have to expect some markup for the tranportation, I guess). And the fresh produce selection is dismal. Plus the vet carries a full line of Diamond products. But I've been working in a small town 20 miles away, there are 400 people in that town and they have no grocery store. One of their two gas stations has basics---mostly non-perishables, at a large markup of course---but the closest actual grocery store is the one in my town. 20 miles! I think they have a farm supply store, though, so ironically they probably have a better selection for dog food than people food .
> 
> Anyway, rambling. . .Dog Chow is usually available almost anywhere and I'd recommend it over Beneful.


Yeah with middle income people here I usually recommend ordering online. Only worth it though if you get free shipping, and a lot of people don't have $50 to meet that minimum. When people at work ask me what they should feed the animal they're adopting I've realized that starting with "Where will you buy dog food?" is the best question to start with and then recommend from there.

Honestly I am just becoming so much less of a food freak. Fed my last [shelter] foster science diet GASP and then today a vol actually mentioned this lawsuit and asked if we fed beneful. I told her no, due primarily to the fact that we get enough food donated that we can be a little picky (a luxury many orgs do not have) and that we avoid it because it dyes all the dogs poop and we get constant complaints that so-and-so is pooping blood when its actually red dye, which is true.

She then asked what I would feed, and I asked her where she bought food. She said grocery store and I said "well, Iams and Purina one are decent."

WHO AM I BECOMING?!?!?!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Ha my family dog ate Gaines Burgers (do they even exist anymore?) almost his whole life and died at 16 or 17. I think the moral of the story from anecdotes like these is that any particular food isn't objectively across the board good or bad, while any individual dog can absolutely do better or worse on a particular diet, dogs with a capital D are adaptable generalists who evolved eating garbage and lots of different diets can work for them.


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## MazzyGirl (Jan 19, 2015)

I'm not a fan of these lawsuits. They seem frivolous, but at the same time, I'd imagine some of the necessary recalls could be born from the lawsuits that have merit. 

I do know that not everyone, even the most educated veterinarians and other professionals, knows how good or bad something is. They, along with most others, trust the system and believe what they are told from either other people or the commercials. My vet, who really seemed to know the value of every kind of food suggested I feed my dog some tomato sauce for it's health value. She said to use Paul Newman brand because it was so healthy. I went to buy the stuff (along with the veggies and fish I was to put in her food) and it was one of the worst sauces on the shelf! I showed her Classico and she was floored! She couldn't believe how wrong she was. She even called her other patients that she had suggested the sauce to. 

It really does help to look at the labels before handing out suggestions like that to people. So, if there is an ingredient in the dog food you want to use that you don't want for your dog, study the label and choose something that has the ingredients you prefer. Each dog is going to react differently to food. SOme dogs may be perfectly fine with one food, while another dog has bad reactions possibly due to an allergy to something in the food, or (just like us human) its system just doesn't agree with something in the food. That does not mean there's something wrong with the food, which is why it's so hard to prove something like this latest claim against Purina.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Willowy said:


> I dunno. I can't really blame people for thinking it's an OK food with all the fancy commercials and hype. One of my friends told me she switched her dog to a new food, "it's really healthy and expensive!" and it turned out to be Beneful :/ (yes, I got her to switch to something less colorful and sugary). Not everyone knows what to look for in a dog food. Not everyone knows that maybe eating Cap'n Crunchberries every day might not be the best thing .


just a cursory glance at the label is all it takes, one doesnt have to be a canine nutritionist to to recognize that the food is crap.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Rescued said:


> Yeah with middle income people here I usually recommend ordering online. Only worth it though if you get free shipping, and a lot of people don't have $50 to meet that minimum. When people at work ask me what they should feed the animal they're adopting I've realized that starting with "Where will you buy dog food?" is the best question to start with and then recommend from there.
> 
> Honestly I am just becoming so much less of a food freak. Fed my last [shelter] foster science diet GASP and then today a vol actually mentioned this lawsuit and asked if we fed beneful. I told her no, due primarily to the fact that we get enough food donated that we can be a little picky (a luxury many orgs do not have) and that we avoid it because it dyes all the dogs poop and we get constant complaints that so-and-so is pooping blood when its actually red dye, which is true.
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity, I picked an address in a dense, urban "working class/ lower income" part of my city which I know has a lot of dog owners but also has a lot of people who rely on public transit or have only one vehicle in the household. Then I mapped distance (driving, not straight line) to various stores which carry dog food. I think its a useful illustration of the practical realities to consider when recommending or suggesting dog food choices to people. 

Tractor Supply Co: 13 miles, using interstate, no public transit access
Pet Smart: 13 miles, very minimal public transit access
A local chain pet store: 6 miles, limited public transit access
Save-A-Lot: 2 1/2 miles, on transit line
Kroger: 1 mile, walkable and mostly with sidewalks, on transit line
Dollar General: 1/2 mile, walkable or on transit line



OwnedbyACDs said:


> just a cursory glance at the label is all it takes, one doesnt have to be a canine nutritionist to to recognize that the food is crap.


Meh. A lot of people don't even really understand labels for their own food. From the perspective of someone who say, knows that chocolate is bad for dogs and meat is good, the label doesn't have as many red flags as it might seem to people who read a whole lot of dog food labels.

I think plenty of people would see the ingredients something like this.... (the bolded comments are my imaginary thought process of Random Joe buying dog food)

ground yellow corn *ok, its a vegetable, vegetables are healthy* , chicken by-product meal *meat is good*, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour *whole wheat, that's healthy like whole wheat bread is better than white bread*, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, rice flour, beef *good, more meat*, soy flour, meat and bone meal *good, more meat*, propylene glycol *dunno what that is, but its in my potato chips too so it must be ok*, sugar *ok, its in my breakfast cereal after all*, tricalcium phosphate, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, animal digest, sorbic acid (a preservative), mono and dicalcium phosphate, dried spinach *that's a healthy vegetable*, dried peas *ditto*, dried carrots *ditto*, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, Red 40, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, Yellow 6, Yellow 5, copper sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, Blue 2, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite *a bunch of vitamins, vitamins are good*


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

My step-dads dogs have only ever eaten Purina Beneful. One is 7 and the other is 13 years old with almost no health issues except the lab is a little fat. I'm not saying it's a good food and i personally wouldn't feed it, but I don't think it's absolutely horrid.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Shell said:


> Out of curiosity, I picked an address in a dense, urban "working class/ lower income" part of my city which I know has a lot of dog owners but also has a lot of people who rely on public transit or have only one vehicle in the household. Then I mapped distance (driving, not straight line) to various stores which carry dog food. I think its a useful illustration of the practical realities to consider when recommending or suggesting dog food choices to people.
> 
> Tractor Supply Co: 13 miles, using interstate, no public transit access
> Pet Smart: 13 miles, very minimal public transit access
> ...


Yep! Pretty much how my stepmom reads labels. lol.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Yep! Pretty much how my stepmom reads labels. lol.


It isn't easy to know how to read labels. I wouldn't be hasty to judge. In the days I fed raw, almost everything I fed would have been considered 'by-product'. Chicken frames are one of the cheapest sources of animal product available to the dogfood industry. The raw-food literature considers them an excellent food.

As for the anti-corn sentiment. Has anyone got any evidence-based references saying corn is actually bad for health? I can believe it may be less digestible than other grains, but with so many dogs being overweight, it may be healthy to feed foods that are not efficiently absorbed. I feed carrots and am not disturbed to see the orange bits show up in the poop.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Ground corn is actually highly digestible. It's the outer covering that is indigestible.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

The worst I've seen is 'Doggy Bag' food.



> Ingredients:
> Wheat Middlings, Ground Yellow Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, soybean Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), Animal Digest Salt, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate , Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Vitamin D Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate, Folic Acid.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Doggy Bag is the plain white bag at TSC, right? Yeah, it's bad. But I imagine nobody expects much from a food that costs $13 for 40 pounds . Or at least I hope nobody expects much for that price. 

There's one at the dollar store that I think might be worse. $4.99 for 20 pounds. I'll see if I can find the ingredients.

I've always found that corn puts weight on dogs pretty effectively. I've even used a food with corn specifically to put weight on Moose when he was younger. So it must be digestible at least. But as for what nutrients it provides to dogs, I don't know. Soda will put weight on a human but it doesn't provide any nutrients.


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## Luxorien (Jun 11, 2014)

What I am gathering from the nutrition books I've been reading is that corn is fine for dogs. However, it may be the case that foods which rely on corn as a primary source of protein might be deficient for other reasons. I have not yet been able to confirm this, but it is the next thing I'm testing.

The problem with evaluating the food based on the ingredient list is that you have no way of knowing how much of that food is actually digested. That information is apparently available only through feeding trials.


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## SamC130 (Mar 20, 2013)

Propylene glycol is actually used in "safe" antifreezes that were developed so children and pets wouldn't die from licking them. They are used in a lot of foods, including ice cream. I have been a dealer for AMSOIL products for years and one of their products is pet-safe antifreeze. It costs more than ethyl glycol antifreeze but it won't kill a child or pet that finds some and licks it.


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## SamC130 (Mar 20, 2013)

Actually, it makes the anti-Purina crowd look like idiots with all of the claims they're making. Wait until the suit is thrown out of court.


SydTheSpaniel said:


> Best thing about this whole thing? It puts Beneful in a negative light with the public, and you know what? I am perfectly okay with that!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

You know you can just leave without announcing your intent to leave, right?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Or forum mod's can help him along.


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