# New Doberman owner, problem behavior (Long read)



## Deville28 (Apr 14, 2008)

Hi all,

My dog: 
- Male red Doberman, currently 1yr 10 months old, neutered. 
- Very nice personality, loves people and playing with other dogs. 
- Did not get any socialization or basic training until I acquired him when he was about 1yr 5 months old. 
- First owner did not walk the dog. Dog spent 90% of it's first year and a half of life locked in a basement, let outside a few times a day to go to the bathroom only.(Not beaten, but neglected)

Me:
- 28 yr old male, grew up with and owned 4 large breed dogs. Amateur dog trainer at best. Believe in and practice non violent training. Willing to learn, open minded. Active lifestyle. take my dog everywhere.

Ok, so I got the dog from a friend of mine who thought it would be a good idea to go and get a Doberman puppy when he had never even owned or really been around dogs in his entire life. 

As you can imagine the dog was very wild while my friend owned him. Didn't know basic commands or have any manners, jumped all over people, chewed everything, was play biting (Hard), thought the couch was his, etc... there was a lot of problems.

It was a real challenge for me to calm him down and teach him some manners but he has come along way in the 5 months I have owned him.

Now, he knows hes not allowed on the couch unless invited, does not growl or challenge my authority, no more play biting, and now has lightning quick reflexes when told to sit, lay down, shake a paw, roll over or come here, all due to using NILIF. (At least most the time  )

Ok, now for my new big problem that I cant seem to figure out what to do.

The dog park (months 1 - 3) of my owning him.
On his leash: 
- Learns to walk better on a leash 
- Gets very excited but enjoys meeting new dogs. 
- Whines with excitement when other dogs pass or come near, pulls to try and meet them, extremely dramatic. 
- Barely acknowledges people, but goes absolutely nuts at the site of other dogs.

Off his leash
- Can let him off the leash when nobody is around and he stays close, will come back when called most the time. 
- Gets excited around other dogs, approaches carefully, loves to play.
- Will not acknowledge me when playing with another dog, ignores me completely even when I walk away or try and get him to chase me.

The dog park: (months 4 - current) of my owning him.
On his leash:
- Walks much nicer.
- Learning to sit before crossing a road.
- Still gets very excited when he sees other dogs but not as dramatic.
- Cannot meet very many dogs anymore because the first thing he will do now is try and bite the other dogs neck or bite it's nose.

Off the leash: ( Now with muzzle only, unless with dogs he knows.)
- Stays fairly close, but will sometimes bolt to see other dogs.
- When called to come back, looks to see if there is other dogs around first. If there is, he usually bolts, if not he comes.
- Will almost instantly lunge at most dogs necks and noses.
- Will now come to me when playing with other dogs, not when called, but if I walk or run in the other direction.
- Absolutely dog crazy!!

What am I doing wrong, why has he all of a sudden started lunging at other dogs necks and noses? I just don't get it.

The dogs don't yelp when he does it, but they take it as a threat so he almost gets in a fight every time. 

My guess is he is either trying to establish instant dominance or saying "hey, play with me!" but I don't know. Could I have possibly trained him to do this without knowing?

I talked to my dogs old owner and he said he used to discipline him by grabbing his scruff on his neck and force him to the ground. Could it be from that? 

I am so annoyed with this behavior that seems to have come out of no where, now he has to be muzzled to be off the leash, I just cant trust him otherwise, but I also hate doing it to him.

Is this possibly just a Doberman trait? He is such a great dog and I really want to give him a good life, but I just cant see him having to much fun with a muzzle on.

Also, the way he will not come when playing with other dogs drives me crazy. I read your supposed to find something that motivates him and use that to get his attention. Well what are you supposed to do when your dog, is dog motivated? Pull a Chihuahua out of coat?

I should mention that he plays great with dogs that he knows and is quite good with dogs he has a chance to be around for a bit. It's mostly just the initial meetings he does this. 

I read somewhere Dobermans are more aggressive to males, any truth to that?

Thanks so much to any and all replies, I realize it was a long post.

Going for a walk now


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

I can't be much help but I will just say that you shouldn't have your dog on leash around dogs who are off leash, as that can cause problems. In an off leash park, he is off. When he's on leash, he only meets other dogs who are on leash (as much as you can help it).

Now waiting for others who can better help you!


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

Without knowing what happened to the dog before you got him, it's very difficult to make any comment on what exactly it could be, there are many choices! Dog aggression or he doesn't know how to greet other dogs properly (not the same as aggresssion) more or less a dog that's like the guy that just meets you and punches you hard in the arm when a volkswagon goes by.

First thing I would do is sign him up for obedience classes, a group [possibly a few privates first so you can get swing of things  ]. Learning how to work around other dogs, repsonding to your commands, desensitizing him to that situation. So in "real life" it's habit to respond to your command when you call him away from other dogs, if you should decide he can ever be trusted offleash.

The trainer of the class may be educated enough to assist you with your dog, or they may know a good behaviourist.

One thing is for sure, do not allow him offlead anymore unless your with dogs he knows well and always plays well with, and your not in an area that other strange dogs can show up at any time, like a dog park. If his recall isn't 100% no dog should be offleash, especially if their biting at other dogs necks. If he does that to the wrong dog, you'll have a huge scuffle on your hands. It's been pure luck that so far, no dog has reacted by attacking him. 

So, sign up for obedience classes is my vote. Solidify his commands, make him BOMB proof!  Err, "dog" proof! LOL

And until his recall is 100% don't allow him offleash.

You can manage this behaviour with time and effort. It's no guarentee that he'll ever be friendly with every strange dog he meets, but with work, he can come 100% to your command to come even with strange dogs around so you can put him on leash.

Good luck


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Deville
1st off you have only had dog 5 mths, 2nd there are no rules that say you must take your dog to a dog park. your dog is 22 months old and starting to feel good about himself. German dogs in my opinion are slow maturing. Definitely get him in an Obed. program. That will be your 1st baby step towards sanity.


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## Deville28 (Apr 14, 2008)

Thank you for the replies.

Group obedience classes are in my near schedule, I'm on the waiting list for a place in my city. 

Alpha, his behavior is definitely more the guy punching you in the shoulder then aggression. He really just doesn't know how to greet other dogs. He thinks every dog wants to, or should play with him. 

Also you said don't let him off the lead anymore in off leash parks until his recall is 100%, do you mean even with a muzzle on? 

Thanks Alpha

wvasko, I'm not sure if I get your point. You said "there are no rules that say you must take your dog to a dog park. your dog is 22 months old and starting to feel good about himself."

Do you mean don't take him out, or just not to the dog park? If you mean don't take him to the dog park, I cant do that. I get to bored walking him around the neighborhood on a leash, and I know he does to. 

Also there is not much other option for me as I live in a city and if I go anywhere else I'm either trespassing, or I have to drive far out of town. And even these options don't eliminate the risk of bumping into strange dogs. 

In regards to his age, and feeling good about himself, do you mean I should give him time and he will get better? Please elaborate.

Thanks.


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

No dog should be offleash if their recall is 100%. That means whether they're perfectly friendly with other dogs or not, even if they aren't friendly and have a muzzle on.

The problem with reactivity issues isn't always that a big scuffle could break out, it's that you don't want these issues of course to escalate. When he's offleash, doing this behaviours, you have no way of stopping him immediately. So the behaviour continues, the more the behaviour continues, the harder it will be to change the behaviour.

Also muzzling dogs can lead to something similar to barrier "aggression" I think "frusteration" is a better term for it though.

I think your best bet, if in your opinion and you know the dog best, he isn't aggressive, is to get into a group class. Work on basic obedience skills first, than perhaps depending on how he reacts, start socializing him with other dogs in the class. Verbally correcting for inappropriate behaiour and highly rewarding "normal" dog behaviours, like butt-sniffing, play bows to initiate play instead of lunging at the neck etc etc.

Good luck. 

ETA - I personally would invest in a long line. A 30-40 foot line that you keep attached to your dog, this way he can still run and get lots of excercise, but if you call him, you can reel him in to enforce the command.


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## DOBERMAN_07 (Jan 17, 2007)

You just described my boy lol

I have a 2 year old male (black, neutered) Dobie and we were in the same boat as you are right now. I wish you would have had the dog from a very young age so you could see with your eyes how he matures from day to day... My dog went from being a relaxed, quiet pup to a VERY protective Doberman. Like wvasko said the dog is still growing and IMO his newly "learned" behavior is something that is part of a Doberman's nature.

Keep doing what you are doing when it comes to training and after a while the dog will learn to control his urges and become a true Doberman (granted that every dog matures at their own rate)


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## Deville28 (Apr 14, 2008)

DOBERMAN_07 said:


> You just described my boy lol
> 
> I have a 2 year old male (black, neutered) Dobie and we were in the same boat as you are right now. I wish you would have had the dog from a very young age so you could see with your eyes how he matures from day to day... My dog went from being a relaxed, quiet pup to a VERY protective Doberman. Like wvasko said the dog is still growing and IMO his newly "learned" behavior is something that is part of a Doberman's nature.
> 
> Keep doing what you are doing when it comes to training and after a while the dog will learn to control his urges and become a true Doberman (granted that every dog matures at their own rate)


Finally a Doberman owner  I have been waiting for this. Not to say I do not appreciate everyone else's responses but I have found this breed to be quite "A breed of there own." at least of my experience so far. They are truly unlike any other breed I have ever owned or been around.

DOBERMAN_07, I had him at the park yesterday, he now has a long retractable leash. And he did ok with commands, but failed terribly with his biting necks issue. 

It seems he has got worse, more aggressive now I think. Almost got into a fight with a German Shepard and I felt I had to muzzle him even on leash when the next set of dogs came over. 

I plan to get 100% recall until I even consider letting him off again. I do find he is getting quite attached to me lately, do you think part of it is trying to protect me? 

Thanks again everyone


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## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

Deville28 said:


> Finally a Doberman owner  I have been waiting for this. Not to say I do not appreciate everyone else's responses but I have found this breed to be quite "A breed of there own." at least of my experience so far. They are truly unlike any other breed I have ever owned or been around.
> 
> DOBERMAN_07, I had him at the park yesterday, he now has a long retractable leash. And he did ok with commands, but failed terribly with his biting necks issue.
> 
> ...


 Anything to do with dog to dog aggression, you need an experienced trainer involved. I mean no offend to you, but you are inexperience to deal things like this by yourself. You need someone to guide you in person how to train your dog; however, I never let my dogs play with other dogs for many good reasons. This is one reason why your dog is starting to get aggressive and not sure what you have done wrong. I don't let them off leash if their recall is not 100% with distraction.

I highly doubt that your dog is trying to protect you because he doesn't have any proper training and genetic to do. I have seen owners telling me that their dogs are trying to protect them, but I tend to find their dogs to be very insecure. If you want to prove me wrong, take you dog to see a decoy. I'm sure your dog will prove yourself wrong. Your dog is getting aggressive because he got into a fight with the German shepherd. It takes one bad fight/incident to change your dog's behavior forever. It can be hard to rehabilitate since you are supposed to protect him from that dog. It changes how he looks at you as his leader.


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

All breeds are a breed of their own, hence why they're a separate breed.

There are many breeds out there that are known for being much harder to handle than Doberman's.

A dog is a dog is a dog. You deal with aggression/reactivity issues according to the dog not the breed. I've dealt with HA issues with my own dog, who is half Dobe, but I guess that doesn't count  [I also have an APBT which are of course known for being DA, my own is somewhat dog reactive]

I agree with FR. Labelling insecure dogs, "protective" is a common mistake. Put that dog under some pressure and you'll really see them crumble.

I speak with a woman on another board who has Dobes, she's one of the best I've met on the internet, and I'm sure she would scoff at the idea of all Doberman's having these problems. Her dogs are well bred, well socialized animals, that to my knowledge have never had these types of issues. So to say only people with Doberman's understand is far from the truth.

I really hope that you get your dog under control. Allowing your dog to continuely pester strange dogs is irresponsible, especially because YOU KNOW this is how your dog reacts.

It would be different if it were a one time thing, he'd never done this before etc. But you KNOW this is how your dog reacts. It's irresponsible to continue to allow him to manhandle other dogs in this manner.

ETA - After going through some issues with Hades, and Roxy (but not with dogs, people rather) I've come to find that completely AVOIDING the situation is your best bet with reactivity. Now, I need to clarify, because I don't mean that your dog should NEVER be around other dogs, it's just being knowledgable about your dog. Finding the little triggers, the small signs/changes in behaviour before he reacts and cutting that train of thought before it leads to him acting on it. Make sense?

So completely random example:
You find that his trigger is dogs with red collars.

You see him looking at a dog with a red collar, and one of his signs is his hackles raising. Immediately you break that train of thought by asking for a watch me, or a sit, or down, reward etc.


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## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

Alpha said:


> But you KNOW this is how your dog reacts. It's irresponsible to continue to allow him to manhandle other dogs in this manner.


 Oh yeah, I absolutely agree.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Deville

*wvasko, I'm not sure if I get your point. You said "there are no rules that say you must take your dog to a dog park. your dog is 22 months old and starting to feel good about himself."*

Depending on the individual dog at anywhere from 6 mths to 2 years they get into what I call teen age years. They start testing the surrounding areas in their life. 

*Do you mean don't take him out, or just not to the dog park? If you mean don't take him to the dog park, I cant do that. I get to bored walking him around the neighborhood on a leash, and I know he does 
to.*

It appears that the dog park program is going from bad to worse according to your posts. I'm just suggesting to keep him out of the dog park before he gets hurt or does the hurting. Each tussle he is involved with takes him closer to an ingrained habit which is harder to break as he gets older. Other posters are correct it's not a Doberman issue it's a dog issue. Remember with any large dog come a large responsibility.


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## Deville28 (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm sorry if I made it seem like I think this is a Doberman problem only, I just have come to realize that this breed, although very much the same as other dogs is also very different and I wanted to hear what fellow Doberman owners had to say.

I realize that this is a dog problem, not a breed problem. But I was curious if it may have been a trait that was possibly common with the breed.

Alpha you said, "I really hope that you get your dog under control. Allowing your dog to continuely pester strange dogs is irresponsible, especially because YOU KNOW this is how your dog reacts."

Of course I am going to do what I can to get this resolved, that is why I am here. As far as continuing to let him pester other dogs, I'm not letting it happen anymore unless it's out of my control, ie. A dog runs up to him. Thank you for your info Alpha, you have been a big help.

Also thanks to wvasko and French Ring, I appreciate your suggestions and advice.


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

Deville - Sorry if it sounds harsh, but your post before this one, states that your dog was doing the same behaviour.

So until you get this sorted out, I would stay away from other dogs unless you can control him.

So, he's on leash and dogs are approaching, instead of allowing him to lunge/bark (whatever it is he does to get to those dogs) you should have a high value treat to get his attention and ask for a behaviour like sit. He sits he gets the reward. If he goes back to barking, repeat.

If he's allowed to continue this behaviour, or just "held back" from other dogs, the issues will worsen. You need to give him an alternate behaviour. It's so much easier to tell a dog: Do THIS, instead of just saying DON'T do that.  

I know from experience with my girl, that these types of issues rarely resolve themselves, they get worse, much worse. Especially with our human attempts at fixing the issue before we educate ourselves! LOL.

So save yourself some time, money and frusterations from down the road and shorten the time it will take to work on this issue by discontinueing the behaviour now. 

ETA - If a dog runs up to yours, and the high value treat can't hold is attention (or the other dog is very close and you don't want to bring the food out for fear of a scuffle over it) just hold your dogs head tightly to your thigh until the other dog is under control to prevent any situations from arising. 

Body blocking also works for most dogs. By just standing with your chest out in a confident manner and preventing the dog from coming closer to yours.


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## Deville28 (Apr 14, 2008)

Alpha said:


> Deville - Sorry if it sounds harsh, but your post before this one, states that your dog was doing the same behaviour.
> 
> So until you get this sorted out, I would stay away from other dogs unless you can control him.
> 
> ...


Will do Alpha, thanks again for all your help. I'll try and give you an update in a few weeks or so.


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## golden&hovawart (Jan 11, 2008)

I would not allow yr dog to bark,whine or lounge at another dog!.
If he does that,you make him look the other way and sit.He stops,you give him a treat and you try again!.I would also get a trainer,ASAP!.
Not all dobies are aggressive and some are very social with other dogs but those dogs are usually overly socialize from puppyhood!.
There's a lot that you don't know about yr dog cos you got him as an adult!.Don't give up but just expect that something can go wrong!.
Does yr dog get along with other dogs and if yes,try to find a place where you can walk together without being a dog park.
I don't go to dog park but my dogs have plenty of walking buddies and they are,all,off the leash!.


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## wysiwygdoberman (May 19, 2008)

I wouldn't think going to a dog park would be suitable. The dog is already admittedly out of control and you are simply allowing it to get away with being out of control in a situation that is likely more stressful than anyplace you could take it. You need to train it first - most of the training will actually be you learning how to properly interact and train the dog but then he will pick it up fast. Don't take it where you can't control the situation because then the dog will KNOW you can't control anything. Dobermans are like any other dog - they need someone who knows how to work with them and this dog has already been 'trained' to blow people off and try to take control of situations he feels stressed in by blowing up right off the bat. Intact males of strong willed breeds tend to not be tolerant of other males encroaching upon them and basically this dog was likely not left with his litter mates long enough to learn how to interact properly so he sees ANY advancement from another dog as a threat. He hasn't learned the body language of his own species and will automatically go on the defensive (aggression based on fear) when approached by another dog. Don't bother putting him in that sort of situation until you have SOME control over him and really, I have never seen any need to put any dog in that situation. I am not a fan of dog parks because for the most part they are simply areas where people who don't know much about dogs take their dogs and allow them to behave badly. They can be okay but it is rare and not worth it. Find a good, motivational type training class and learn to train the dog. Good luck

Nancy
(owned, trained, trialed, shown, loved Dobermans for decades)


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