# Question for you groomers



## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

I got Snoopy an appointment for friday at the groomers and from how he is with me I think he may be alittle frisky and snappy when they work on his face. I have heard some groomers will give the dog a sedative so they can get the job done. Buts since I will be dropping him off in the morning then picking him up when I get home from school do you think they would just take breaks when he gets to worked up since they will have him all day or will they just give him a sedative to get it over with? The reason I ask is because I heard its more dangerous to put a dog like mine under because they have short snouts and can have difficulty breathing. I am going to tell them to use it as a last resort if they can't get one or two people to restrain him. Because I know this lady who has a older shih tzu with a heart problem and they gave her dog a sedative without asking to see if the dog had a medical condition that if they sedated the dog it would die. So she was very lucky the dog didn't die because it was drowsy all day and she couldn't understand why and thats when they told her they sedated the dog. 

Sorry for all the questions, but one last one. I want Snoopy's hair about as short as it was a couple of months ago when he had short puppy hair. So what do I request to get that, would it be a puppy cut?


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

Yikes I have never heard of a sedative being given. I thought they just put the dog on the leash and groomed him. Maybe for an aggressive dog they would put on a muzzle. I never heard the sedative thing. Ella has her last round of shots tmrw and I am going to set up an appointment for her to be groomed soon. Will be interested in hearing what everyone replies to your post.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Nope, this person's dog was just jumpy. It wasn't aggressive, it was just moving around to much and they could have killed it because it has a heart problem!


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

I would never dream of sedating someone's dog. If that is something that would be necessary, I always send someone to their vet so the dog could be checked out head to toe and then prescribed valium or such. Honestly there have only been two or three dogs in over 16 yrs. this was necessary for. Most people I work with will gladly come back a time or two if it's necessary to get the job done rather than stress the dog. I would certainely make sure you state you DON'T want him sedated just in case this is a common practise in your area. Never heard of such a thing around here.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

That is what I was gonna do and tell them that he can be easily restrained if one or two people hold him down as it only took one vet tech to restrain Snoopy so the vet could trim the fur off his pads because after a minute or two he stopped struggling, he just moaned.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

I have so many people call in and tell me straight out that their dog will need to be sedated or that they are nasty and snippy with them at home; then when the dog gets to my grooming station, they barely raise a whisker at being groomed. But then, I know how to handle them with out making being groomed 'a big deal'...I won't let go if they argue with me, but I won't 'pull' on them either, rather I will let them figure out that when they stop squirming the job that I am doing (foot or face...the usual squirmy spots)get done in a matter of seconds! I have yet to sedate any of these 'nasty' dogs...

So my guess is, if these groomers have good dog handling skills they will not have any issues with your first time puppy. They often behave much better than you would expect, just because they often know they can 'push it' with their owners. If a groomer is a calm being, the dog will react in that fashion as well... I am pretty non reactive to dog's behavior's which is why I probably have an easy time with hard to handle dogs...they are "expecting" a reaction out of their handler, and if they don't get one, they stop fussing; then I make a 'good fuss' over them when they are all done...you know, treat them praise them...make the grooming place an okay place to be!

I never hold a dog down either...no matter how fidgity he is; they tend to get more fussy when they are held down...plus, I don't want them to 'have' to be held down everytime I groom them so teach them right away to stand on my table. Maybe I will take a picture of my set up tomorrow; as I have my regular noose tie, and then one on the front of my table to keep them from backing up, or turning around...this tends to keep the dog's calmer. I rarely ever have to have anyone help hold dogs; usually the ones I have to have some help with are older dogs...mainly because they have a hard time standing.


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

I groom Teddie because he does get aggressive when it comes to grooming. There are few groomers that don't have a problem witha nippy dog. 

IMO it all comes down to where you'e getting him groomed. Is it a nice groomers or is it like at a PetSmart/Pecto?


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Its a nice one, fancy sign and fancy inside. They charge $30 for a shih tzu. lol


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> Its a nice one, fancy sign and fancy inside. They charge $30 for a shih tzu. lol


That is a *great* deal!! I'm bring Teddie lol. Here in TExas most places charge 60-150 bucks to grooma Shih Tzu. That's one of the reasons I groom Teddie myself.

Just make sure you tell them not to use sedation if you don't want them to use it. Teddie was sedated to be neutered and also when he went in to get his ears cleaned and his nails trimmed. Yes for his nails snd ears. He's very aggressive when it comes to grooming.


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

Around here, most groomers will NOT sedate a pet at all, and places like Petco and Petsmart will not even allow an owner to give a sedative before bringing the pet in.

I prefer a more natural approach to sedating before I groom Beav: a nice, brisk mile and a half walk up and down the hills of my neighborhood.


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

Lorina said:


> Around here, most groomers will NOT sedate a pet at all, and places like Petco and Petsmart will not even allow an owner to give a sedative before bringing the pet in.
> 
> I prefer a more natural approach to sedating before I groom Beav: a nice, brisk mile and a half walk up and down the hills of my neighborhood.


I asked about the PetSmart/Pecto groomer because all of the stores around my house will not touch a dog unless it's is *SUPER* well mannered because they groom in front of a huge glass window. Everyone can see and if the dog acts up they say it makes the whole store look bad.

It's all BS imo and all to cover there own A***s. We've been turned down and even given dirty looks because one of our dogs didn't like his nails to be cut.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Geez, how many dogs do enjoy it. They must hardly have dogs then. I went to petsmart yesterday because they had grooming and Snoopy needed to be groomed and all the other ad's in the phonebook said "by appointment only" and they weren't open on sundays. So we drove 30 minutes out to this petsmart and on their door it said something like "Nails and paws trimmed $12" Then below it said "Walk in's welcome" so I figured that finally I found a place that was convient for me and I walked in and told her I needed Snoopy's hair cut and she said that they only took appointments and then I pointed to the sign that said "Walk in's welcome" and she said something like, oh thats just for the nail trimming and she brought another employee in to prove to her that the sign was confusing. I was so peeved off because I had just convinced my grandma to take me out there and they only take appointments and there was two groomers in there with no dogs so I didn't understand why they couldn't have took him real quick. But whatever. 

There is my little rant about petsmart.


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## kendallj (Apr 22, 2007)

I believe the short cut for Shi Tzus is called the puppy cut... atleast that is what I was told when I was looking at getting one... still kinda am... I think it would be a good friend for my Sheperd mix! lol a big gal with big man syndroms (thinks she's a lap dog) and a little guy with little man syndrom THAT would be interesting!


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

Wow $30 for a full groom on a shih-tzu Durb?? That's amazing (I'm glad I don't groom there LOL) Here it's a minimum of $60


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

I would NEVER allow a groomer to give my dog a sedative. EVER. I would be extremely clear about this with the groomer. I also wouldn't expect a groomer to handle an unreasonably unruly or aggressive dog. If it required two people to groom my dog, I would expect to pay twice as much for the grooming.



TeddieXRuxpin said:


> I asked about the PetSmart/Pecto groomer because all of the stores around my house will not touch a dog unless it's is *SUPER* well mannered because they groom in front of a huge glass window. Everyone can see and if the dog acts up they say it makes the whole store look bad.
> 
> It's all BS imo and all to cover there own A***s. We've been turned down and even given dirty looks because one of our dogs didn't like his nails to be cut.


So what if it is. Working with animals is, shall we say, challenging at times. It's worse when you have owners that, basically, try to dump their dog's behavior problems on someone else. All dogs should be taught to politely tolerate basic grooming. This, IMO, is the OWNER'S responsibility, not the groomer - who sees the dog every month or so at most.


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

Petsmart had no problems with Beavis, and I told them upfront that he can be a little ****head at times (Fill in the blank with your four letter word of choice. Any will do.). They just laughed it off and said he was "a typical Pekingese."

He actually surprised me at how well-behaved he was. The right equipment (especially a grooming table) makes a huge difference.

The Lhasa Apso that came in next growled at us as we were leaving, so I guess Beav's not the worst they've seen.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

I agree, the right equipement can help alot; however, knowing how to use that equipment helps too...Lol! 

I also will agree with who ever it was who said it is the owner's responsibility to get a dog used to what a groomer will do; however, I have come to a realization that most owners don't, or won't...some do, and they do a wonderful job of it, and that just totally makes my day! I have done several Shih tzus and Shih tzu mixes lately, that have been wonderful about their first time being groomed! I am greatful for owners who get their dogs used to their paws and faces being handled! 

But there are those who don't, or stop short of it, because the dog 'doesn't like it'...these are the ones that are the 'problem' dogs. However, I don't mind doing these dogs, because usually after a few times of being groomed and realizing that they aren't going to get their way while they are with me, they are just fine. I only charge extra if the dog takes me more than a half hour extra to do; unless it's a large dog who is fighting me...we all know how tiring that can be!Lol!

They also get charged extra if they are 'super aggressive' but I have actually only had one really really aggressive dog at the place I groom at currently...she got charged 35$ extra for her dog, although it was supposed to be more. She had only paid 26$ (5 years ago (the previous groomer undercharged frequently, to get this same dog groomed), well, since then the dog has not been socialized; he literally attacked my neck and face, he also grabbed both my arms; fortunately, because I didn't react in fear or anger, he let go immediately in all areas. The neck injury was the worst, and if I would have reacted I am sure he would have done substantial damage, especially since the bite was dangerously close to my jugular! Anyway, I was going to charge 80$ for the dog...but was informed that the woman would probably 'freak out' or not pay at all...I was going to argue it, claiming, "hey, this dog not only attacked me, but caused me to miss classes, and made other clients have to wait over an hour longer for their dogs...hello!!!" But figured the hell with it...The dog will most likely not be back anyway...if it is, I WILL sedate it, and will inform her if she wants her dog groomed this is the only way I will do it, and that no other groomer in town will do him (there is an 'alert' so to speak on him), so she will have no choice, and she will be charged extra, plus the sedation fee, because a dog like that just isn't worth the risk of trying to groom unsedated...the crappiest part of that whole situation is that the woman was MORE concerned about her dumb mutt than she was me!!! She was like "oh my baby" to her dog, and then looked at me and said "oh, he bit you"...uggghhh...Idiot...I could have smacked her face off...

Anyway...hmmm, I geuss I went on a tangient, but my point is, that socialization is just as important has the owner handling the dog...a dog can 'not' be used to being handled in 'groomer fashion' but still be fine with being groomed, just because he is socialized well; I would rather have a dog that is a bit touchy, or ticklish about being handled than one who has not been socialized at all...period...


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

I massage Snoopy's feet daily and clean his face daily so I think he will be ok in those areas, he just gets alittle snappy if I pull to hard when I'm brushing him with the comb or if he gets crud stuck on his face and I have to use the comb to get it out.


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## Puppy_love_122 (Jul 20, 2007)

Dieselsmama said:


> Wow $30 for a full groom on a shih-tzu Durb?? That's amazing (I'm glad I don't groom there LOL) Here it's a minimum of $60





TeddieXRuxpin said:


> That is a *great* deal!! I'm bring Teddie lol. Here in TExas most places charge 60-150 bucks to grooma Shih Tzu.



Sheesh I'm gald I dont live where you guys live unless I'd have to groom Shadow myself. I pay the same as Durb, $30 plus tip or my shih tzu poodle mix. I live in Missouri, in a rural area, it is more expensive in St. Louis to get them groomed, I have heard.


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## squirt1968 (Feb 19, 2007)

I pay 20 to 30 depending where I go for my shih tzu to be fully groomed. i live in central WA.


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## 007Dogs (Aug 22, 2007)

A groomer can not legally sedate a dog. It must be done by a licensed vet or licensed vet tech under the advise of a vet. When I did grooming for the vets office, if a dog truely did need to be sedated, the vet did it, but only with the consent of the owner. If the owner had dropped the dog off, and we needed to sedate, we first called for permission. If they could not be reached, I did the best I could without sedating. And if I could not groom without it, then it did not get groomed. It is actually harder to groom a sedated dog because they just want to lay on the table. They are much easier to groom in a standing position.


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

007Dogs said:


> A groomer can not legally sedate a dog. It must be done by a licensed vet or licensed vet tech under the advise of a vet. When I did grooming for the vets office, if a dog truely did need to be sedated, the vet did it, but only with the consent of the owner. If the owner had dropped the dog off, and we needed to sedate, we first called for permission. If they could not be reached, I did the best I could without sedating. And if I could not groom without it, then it did not get groomed. It is actually harder to groom a sedated dog because they just want to lay on the table. They are much easier to groom in a standing position.



This was my exact thought. 

I've had to take Teddie in to be sedated to get his ears cleaned and his nails trimmed. Tomorrow I'm taking him in again to ask what all can be done. Neither do I have the money to pay every three weeks and it's horrible on his health. 

Since you mentioned you were a groomer for a while do you have any tips for an owner at home. Teddie came off of the street. When I started working with him I couldn't touch his feet, ears, face or mouth. Now I can open his mouth, trim his hair, clean his ears, but he gets super aggressive if I touch his feet. It's not good to take him in and get him sedated and if I do decide to get it done tomorrow it will be the last time. It cost me $180 to sedate him and get his nail clipped.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Have you tried a muzzle? That way he can't bite you and you can get the job done. I know its not a permant solution but its a cheaper one.


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## TeddieXRuxpin (Sep 11, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> Have you tried a muzzle? That way he can't bite you and you can get the job done. I know its not a permant solution but its a cheaper one.



Good news.

I took Teddie to a different vet and they directed me to a next door groomer. He took him back after we explained his temperament and 15 minutes later came out and said he was done.  That was the exact look that came over my face. He told me he was in deed really bad. 

But he didn't use a muzzle and he just ignored Teddie's crying. Best of all I didn't have to sedate him again and my bill was only $7. I almost wanted to kiss him I was so happy. So I told him he had a new costumer for sure and that I'd be back. I'll take Teddie in every three weeks to get his nails trimmed. I think that made my whole month!


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well there was your problem, you had some little wuss groomers that stopped at the slightest sound from the dog.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

If you can, try and figure out a way to restrain Teddy so he can't reach you with his muzzle. I have a table that allows me to tie the dog forward if necessary as well as have him noosed regularly. If comes in handy for dogs who want to spin around and get at me! 

I don't make a big deal out of 'foot work' either, I just pick up the foot and go to work; if he pulls and fusses I just keep my hold until he stops...I never say "it's okay, it's okay, it's okay!!!" to a dog that is griping about getting the job being done...if you have any fear, or anxiety in your voice the dog will wind up more anxious. He will also begin thinking that what he is doing (pulling) is what is okay, not that you want him to stop and stand still. And if you let go of his foot before he stops fighting, he will continue the behavior! The key to getting a dog over this kind of anxious behavior is to 'ignore it' and keep doing what you are doing until he stops struggling. Muzzle him if you must, and as he gets better, start removing it, because the muzzle can become a 'crutch' so to speak to good behavior...It's too bad that more groomers don't know these key points though, because dogs really feed off of 'ignorance'!!!! For example, I have a Yorkie mix that comes to see me; her owners were forced to find a new groomer because their previous groomer said she was too nasty to groom, especially her feet and nails. Well, I bathed her, as that is the first thing I do with most dogs, dried her, no problems. Went to finish her, and aside from a few mild grumbles from her about getting her nails done she gave me no problems what so ever...so much for nasty. I have done her a few times now too, and the last time I did her, she only grumbled on one foot, instead of all four, so she is learning quickly!


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

What should I do so I can easily clean Snoopy's eyes? Everytime I try he lunges at me and one time he left teeth marks! Most times I put his body under my arm and hold him down and then I take my right hand and hold his head and mouth shut and go to work. But he still manages to move around but I try to continue. So what should I do about that, just keep doing what I'm doing? He also does lots of flailing and growling when I put his back against my chest to comb his underside and when he does it I stop and wait till he stops then try again, should I just keep brushing and let him go when he stops moaning and growling?


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

With little dogs with 'beards' I use that to 'hold' their face, instead of trying to hold their entire face, especially with those short nosed breeds like yours; If I must, I will even tie a bit of ribbon around their muzzle, to accomplish eye and bridge of nose hair trimming; seeing as you can't actually muzzle them to do these things...Lol!!! If at first he is really fighting your 'beard hold' just practice taking hold of his beard, and let him get used to you just holding it; you aren't yanking on it, or pulling it, you are just holding it, to keep his face still, like you would if you were holding his entire face; however, most dogs do not like their muzzles held, simply because it feels clausterphobic to them...I don't blame them, especially with little dogs; my hand is big compared to their little faces! 

I haven't seen any 'updates' from his grooming appointment, how did that go??? Perhaps I missed it? I apologize if I did!!! 

I really prefer to tie my dogs to groom them, no matter how good they are; even my own dogs I usually tie on the table; 'usually' that is...However, they aren't aggressive, they just don't always want to stand in the position I need them in!!!Lol! At home, I have a couple of tie rings set up; one is in my bathroom, in the tub, so home bathing is easier, if I have to bathe here in a pinch, and the other is in my living room, and is more of a rail, but it accomplishes the job, I need it to do. It keeps the dog's head up and forward, for body brushing (to keep it 'forward' you can guide the dog back by placing your hand between his back legs and supporting his abdomen and bringing him backward, then tell him 'stay'). When you work on his tummy, lift one back leg, and bring it back slightly, so you can see that side of his tummy, and brush; ignore his grumblings. If he is really squirrly, have someone hold him straight, by holding both sides of his face; not literally 'manholding' him, just having their hands there, and holding his collar so he can't flip around so much. Do the same for the other side. 

For his eye cleaning, if the groomer shaved the bridge of his nose, that should help big time; I offer clients to be able to come in as needed to have the goopiness and hair shaved off between groomings, if they have difficulty doing it themselves; I don't charge for this, cause it takes 10 seconds to take a swipe down the nose, and clean out the eye area! Perhaps you could talk to the groomer about doing this? Also, keeping his ever growing top knot up and out of his eyes will help emmensely with the goopy eyes you may be experiencing, because then he won't be getting his eyes constantly brushed by hair, and he will also get adequate 'air' to keep his eye lining dry, instead of so goopy from the drainage. For puppies his age, I usually put two 'top knots' in...they look SUPER cute when they are done properly too...Lol!!! I also reset topknots for owners for nothing every week, as this two is a few second job when it is done regularly.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Oh, sorry. I posted pics in the pic forum awhile ago. They said he was wild and it took them 4 hours to do his face. And yes, they did shave the bridge of his nose and that has made a big difference. Now I don't even have to mess with his face. Here is some pics of it,

















Here are some before pics,


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Ahh...I see the difference!!! Ha! He's really cute with 'eyes'...

FOUR HOURS to get his face done???? Hmmmmmm...that makes me wonder just how much they 'conjoled and begged' him to sit there for them...a puppy of 5-6 month of age should NOT take four hours to groom from start to finish even!!! What other trimming did they do? 

Just curious on that one, cause I do feet, face, beard, ears, tail, etc...I basically even everything up and make them look nice...I mainly use a thinning shear, so it looks natural, but you can tell it's been done; Snoop doesn't look very 'finished' to my groomer's eye...


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

This thread makes me really glad I have a dog with short facial hair.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Love's_Sophie said:


> Ahh...I see the difference!!! Ha! He's really cute with 'eyes'...
> 
> FOUR HOURS to get his face done???? Hmmmmmm...that makes me wonder just how much they 'conjoled and begged' him to sit there for them...a puppy of 5-6 month of age should NOT take four hours to groom from start to finish even!!! What other trimming did they do?
> 
> Just curious on that one, cause I do feet, face, beard, ears, tail, etc...I basically even everything up and make them look nice...I mainly use a thinning shear, so it looks natural, but you can tell it's been done; Snoop doesn't look very 'finished' to my groomer's eye...


They trimmed his under side and thats it. All this did was his face and his underside, they didn't even trim his beard. They said that they didn't want to "stress him out" for his first time.  And can you believe they charged me $20 for what they did?  I mean I told them I wanted a whole body trim because he sheds alot and they were gonna charge $30 but I think they should have only charged $15 since they only did half the job.


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## 007Dogs (Aug 22, 2007)

I would not complain about paying $20. If I spent 4 hours on your dog, I would be charging you $80. I am assuming you got this dog as a puppy? If you would have started taking it to the groomer even to be brushed between 8-12 weeks of age, it would be more use to grooming and not put up such a fuss. 
I tell people all the time, dogs LIE. This one woman told me her dog did not like to be brushed, that it cried, because it must hurt. All the while she is standing there tell me this I am brushing the dog. I told her the dog is lying to you, because she knows if she does this crying thing you will stop. If you just get them use to it, many will learn to enjoy being groomed. I know dogs that just strut after they are groomed. 
One lady told me her dog was so depressed and I told her because the dog is embarrased of how it looks. It wants to be groomed and look pretty. After the dog was groomed, it acted like a totally different dog. She was amazed how his messy look effected his attitude.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well she didn't really spend 4 hours on the dog because she was talking about how she was doing other dogs at the same time. So I'm sure anytime he jerked away or made a noise she stopped and went to a different dog. Plus I wouldn't want to get Snoopy sick just so he will be perfect for when he is older thats if he didn't get parvo.


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## 007Dogs (Aug 22, 2007)

Has Snoopy not has his vaccinations against parvo? He should have had at least 2 by this age. Parvo is passed through feeces, so unless he was eating another dogs poop at the grooming shop or walking in it an licking his feet, chances of a vaccinated getting it are pretty slim. As to my knowledge grooming does not cause Parvo, distemper, lepto, corona, rabies. Kennel cough would be the easiest to catch at the vets or grooming shop as it is airborne. If you are regularly taking him to the grooming shop I would get the injectable for kennel cough, not the nasal and wait at least two weeks after the booster before visiting anywhere he could be exposed to it.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

No, he has had all his shots, I was talking about when he was 9 weeks. When he only had his first round of shots and he was prone to all kinds of diseases.


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## DivaDog (Jun 10, 2007)

He doesnt need a sedative or two people to hold him.

He needs a gromer who knows what they are doing and has plenty of patience. Sedating him wont teach him good manners, only time and patience will do that.

Too many groomers are to damn quick to sedate rather than work through the problems. No dog should be sedated and it can be dangerous for any breed not just short nosed ones.


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## NorthernLights (Oct 3, 2007)

I don't know how to ask this properly, so I'm just going to say it: 

Are all shih Tzus nasty about grooming? 

Orchid would never behave that way at anyone, regardless of where they where touching her. 

Is it a breed thing or a socialization thing?


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well all the shih tzu's I know are that way, my grandma's friend has a shih tzu, the one who was given a sedative without permission, because the groomer didn't want to hassle with the dog.


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

Most of the Shih Tzus I know are total dollbabies. I can't speak for grooming, but they're fine when I'm handlign them at the vets for things like anals, nails, bloodwork, fluid treatments, even draining a cyst.

Pekes and especially Lhasa Apsos don't have such good reputations, so much so that I've seen several very _good-tempered_ Pekes and Lhasas described in rescue as having a "Shih Tzu personality."


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## NorthernLights (Oct 3, 2007)

Ok, fair enough! 

Actually, the few shihs I've met have been such cool little dogs. They seem really friendly to me- but I don't have to groom them, either.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

NorthernLights said:


> I don't know how to ask this properly, so I'm just going to say it:
> 
> Are all shih Tzus nasty about grooming?
> 
> ...



Nope...

I think it has to do with a couple of things

1) how they are handled at home and outside the home; are they the leaders, or are the dog's 'top dog'?
2) how the groomer handles them; are they the leader, or are they afraid to establish leadership? You don't have to be rough to do so, either, but you have to be 'tougher' than the dog is persistant!!!!

I can tell the moment a dog and owner steps into the door who leads the pack...

If these dogs are well socialized over all, they can be 2 years old before they are brought in before they are groomed the first time and be wonderful; that goes for any breed, not just Shih Tzus. However, if they get away with "murder" at home, and never get out of the house, geuss how they are going to act outside of the home? Like little terrors, who have no manners; simply because they don't know any better...I don't usually blame the dog, or the breed. And dog is capable. 

However, just because a dog does not have any set boundaries at home, doesn't mean he will be down right nasty for the groomer; I have had many dogs who have come in, and you can tell right off that they are definitely the 'top dogs' in their homes, but I don't allow that in my shop; they usually catch on quickly and seem quite happy to not have to be the leader for a change! 

Of course, you get those who aren't extremely happy with their 'newfound' authority, but you just gotta stick it out otherwise you'll never get the dog groomed! They put up some fuss, but eventually they realize you aren't going to give in. I had one of those last week; he was a shih tzu\maltese mix, and he fought me tooth and nail for the first third of his grooming session; then by the time he was ready for his bath, he was as good as gold-if a person didn't see the first part of his grooming, they wouldn't have thought he was the same dog!


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

Ella went and got groomed for the first time the other day - it cost $25. Not bad. 

Durb - I have the same troubles trying to clean Ella's eyes - I have smartened up and now do it when she is sleeping or reallyyyy tired and half asleep. She doesn't bother me then. I also trim her nails and stuff then.


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## barksalot (Oct 27, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> Geez, how many dogs do enjoy it. They must hardly have dogs then. I went to petsmart yesterday because they had grooming and Snoopy needed to be groomed and all the other ad's in the phonebook said "by appointment only" and they weren't open on sundays. So we drove 30 minutes out to this petsmart and on their door it said something like "Nails and paws trimmed $12" Then below it said "Walk in's welcome" so I figured that finally I found a place that was convient for me and I walked in and told her I needed Snoopy's hair cut and she said that they only took appointments and then I pointed to the sign that said "Walk in's welcome" and she said something like, oh thats just for the nail trimming and she brought another employee in to prove to her that the sign was confusing. I was so peeved off because I had just convinced my grandma to take me out there and they only take appointments and there was two groomers in there with no dogs so I didn't understand why they couldn't have took him real quick. But whatever.
> 
> There is my little rant about petsmart.


Well... from a groomers standpoint, sometimes what an owner considers a "quick" groom is just the opposite. It may have looked like those 2 groomers had nothing better to do but groom your dog, but how do you know they were not waiting for their next 10 scheduled dogs? I can't tell you how many times people have walked into my shop and acted as if I'm being lazy because I won't take their dog in for a "quick" groom. It doesn't matter that I have 15 dogs on my schedule for the day, they always seem to think I can squeeze theirs in and whip through the dog in 10 minutes. I had a guy just last week who walked in and wanted his pelted Chow done for just "a little trim". When I told him I was booked full for the day he said, "It's just a little trim". LOL!! From the looks of that dog I highly doubt I would have been able to get anything accomplished under 3 hours.

I understand the sign was misleading, but there's really nothing "quick" about grooming - especially if the appointment book is full - unless your talking about a short haired Chihuahua.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well all I really wanted done was his face to get trimmed and then a quick trim over his body, and what I mean by quick is to run the clippers down his body once and thats it, so a light trim.


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## barksalot (Oct 27, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> They trimmed his under side and thats it. All this did was his face and his underside, they didn't even trim his beard. They said that they didn't want to "stress him out" for his first time.  And can you believe they charged me $20 for what they did?  I mean I told them I wanted a whole body trim because he sheds alot and they were gonna charge $30 but I think they should have only charged $15 since they only did half the job.



Ok... so besides the face and underside, was your pup bathed, dried and brushed also? If not, then I would say yeah, the cost was a little high. But if that included a bath/brush then I think you got a pretty fair price. As far as them not wanting to stress your dog out, you should have thanked them. I don't like to stress puppies out during their first groom either. It makes future grooming even harder. Actually, I don't like to stress ANY dog out, regardless of age, because it's a health/safety hazard. Being groomed doesn't need to be a horrifying experience for them. Some dogs need a little more patience (and breaks) then others. If your dog had started to panic during the groom and started thrashing around the table, and the groomer continued to groom the dog regardless, until the dog got himself so stressed out he popped a blood vessel in his eye, how would you feel about that groomer then? I'm not trying to sound like a jack*ss, it's just that sometimes I think people tend to forget that although groomers work with animals, they are still *animals*. It's a little different then when you go to a salon to have your hair done. When the hairstylist tells you to hold still and don't move or she'll take your eye out with her shears, you listen. A dog typically doesn't.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well I mean Snoopy was dropped off at 8am and I wasn't going to pick him up till 3pm so I figured they could do the whole thing since they had 7 hours to take as many breaks as needed. Plus I think he would be fine with his body getting trimmed, it was just his face that was the problem area as far as him being fussy. Yes, they bathed him but he isn't hard to bathe. He tries to get out of the tub a few times at the beginning but after that he just stands there.


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

> When the hairstylist tells you to hold still and don't move or she'll take your eye out with her shears, you listen. A dog typically doesn't.


Amen. I have a nice scar on my arm from a dog who broke his nail and was brought to the vet to have it treated. With four techs holding the dog, the vet and I both ended up bleeding from being scratched by the dog's flailing legs. Everyone involved had blood, urine and poop on them, and went home bruised and battered. 

The owner was peeved that we had to refer her to the emergency clinic to have the dog sedated to have his nail treated -- our schedule was too full that day to do that kind of procedure. She said that something like that would be treated in the room at her doctor's office. I wonder when the last time one of her doctor's human patients left the exam room looking like a cross between a CSI case, a hotel room after Motley Crue left, and the worst public bathroom imaginable?! Most people don't need four people restraining them for a broken nail.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

It sounds like she wasn't the brightest bulb in the box! 

I know I shouldn't be complaining about the price as other places charge more but I just can't see the point of spending alot of money to get a simple hair thing done, now maybe if I was getting the dog groomed for a dog show I could see the point in it.


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## barksalot (Oct 27, 2007)

I know you probably think I'm attacking you and I promise that is not my intention. A dog can be good for a bath, but it is still work for the groomer and she/he should be payed for the time it takes to do it. I shampoo, rinse, shampoo again, rinse, condition and rinse. Towel dry, then hand dry with a stand dryer while brushing. It's time consuming - and *if* a dog doesn't care to have it done it's even more time consuming. I will not take my blades to a dirty coat because it dulls my blades, so the bathing process comes before the clipping. The coat has to be entirely dry before I start clipping or the end result is going to look hideous. So again I say, what one considers a "quick groom" isn't always as quick as it seems it should be.

I agree that 7 hours is plenty enough time to get the dog finished, but if the dog was stressing to much (and most groomers should know when to much is to much) then it's best to hold off on whatever is stressing the dog and try again some other time. If you are really questioning it, then my suggestion would be to ask the next groomer if you can stay with the dog while he's being groomed.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

I don't think your attacking me, we are just having a conversation!  Do you think they stressed him to much when I came to pick him up he growled at me? I was thinking of going to a new groomer because they don't require vaccinations but I forgot to ask before I made the appointment and they would have charged if I canceled. He is up to date on his shots but you can never be to careful.


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## barksalot (Oct 27, 2007)

Well, I wasn't there so I have no idea but my guess is if they did less then what you asked because they didn't want to stress him, then I'm thinking they were trying to avoid as much stress as possible. Does that make sense? LOL!! He may have growled at you simply because he was irritable after experiencing something he had never experienced. It certainly doesn't mean the groomer did anything wrong.

As far as vaccinations go, opinions on that subject vary when it comes to different groomers. Me personally - at my shop I require all dogs to be vaccinated against Rabies, parvo/distemper and bordatella (kennel cough). Rabies for the obvious reasons, and parvo/distemper and kennel cough because they are both very contagious and it's the last thing I want running through my shop. Personally, I wouldn't take my dogs to a groomer who doesn't require those vaccinations, but that's just me. It's all a matter of opinion.


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## Shanette Peters (Jan 14, 2008)

Durbkat said:


> I got Snoopy an appointment for friday at the groomers and from how he is with me I think he may be alittle frisky and snappy when they work on his face. I have heard some groomers will give the dog a sedative so they can get the job done. Buts since I will be dropping him off in the morning then picking him up when I get home from school do you think they would just take breaks when he gets to worked up since they will have him all day or will they just give him a sedative to get it over with? The reason I ask is because I heard its more dangerous to put a dog like mine under because they have short snouts and can have difficulty breathing. I am going to tell them to use it as a last resort if they can't get one or two people to restrain him. Because I know this lady who has a older shih tzu with a heart problem and they gave her dog a sedative without asking to see if the dog had a medical condition that if they sedated the dog it would die. So she was very lucky the dog didn't die because it was drowsy all day and she couldn't understand why and thats when they told her they sedated the dog.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, but one last one. I want Snoopy's hair about as short as it was a couple of months ago when he had short puppy hair. So what do I request to get that, would it be a puppy cut?


Although i have heard of other groomers who will use sedating in a last resort, I have never and hope to never have to use that method. I have had aggressive dogs and usually the only thing i resort to is requesting a second or third person to help hold the dog. Personally i think sedation should only be done by a vet. Even for a dog that moves around a lot or barks or whatever - Patience with the dog is one thing a groomer needs to show. I have had a cockerspaniel that was so bothered by being groomed especially the feet but over the course of 5 grooming sessions I am now at the point the dog is at ease on the table. Deffinately exercizing prior to grooming and leave feeding the dog til after so it doesn't have the need to go to the bathroom might be of some help. Hope it works out for you and your dog!


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

I wouldn't take my dogs to a groomer who drugs dogs - that's practicing medicine without a license, and to do so without informing the owner beforehand is just plain outrageous! 

Some groomers will suggest giving an anxious dog a Benadryl prior to dropping him off, with the hope that it will help. I guess I don't really have a problem with that, providing the owner checked w/the vet first about proper dosage. But, it's not an appropriate substitute for conditioning the dog to accept (and hopefully enjoy) the grooming process. 

My Poodles enjoy the grooming process, especially my female, and both will fall asleep while I'm shaving feet and doing nails. Because they're so big (Standard Poodles), I have to have them lay down on their sides, and even on their backs (spread eagled!), so I can do tummies and sanitary areas. The little Shih Tzu was a wriggly nightmare when I first got him, so I had to work with him every day, to come to my way of thinking (sit still and let's get this done!)! I did initially tie a gauze muzzle, leaving some length after tieing it so I could hold onto that to keep him still while I used my Mini Arco Trimmer at the inner corner of each eye - just a touch, to have a clear and clean area (less prone to any "goop" buildup, too). Every day I would put Luc up onto the grooming table for a grooming session, and had his "doggie heroin" handy (tiny little cubes of Natural Balance Food Roll) to pop into his little mouth for being a good boy! LOL He went from impossible to cooperative in short order. Luc made me realize why the groomers who had worked on Maddy and Beau were always so happy to see them, and kept telling me how wonderful they were. They really are so patient with me, and cooperative. 

When it's time to go for a walk, all three know they have to sit nicely while I run the brush through topknots and tails, and _then_ it's out for that walk! I did that with Maddy from the age of 9 wks. on - so conditioned her without realizing what I was doing - I just wanted her to look "perfect" when I took her out! LOL But, she soon associated being able to go out with sitting still for a hair brushing session first.


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