# Training dog to stay close



## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

We do a lot of off-leash walking with Sophie. She has good recall, but she often roams farther than my husband or I would like. I deal with this by calling her back to me and giving her treats, but my husband wants her to stay within a defined boundary around us without having to call her. It's true that when we start walks she can be pretty lively and I might call to her to come back every 30 s to a minute or so. But we're also inconsistent. My husband is willing to let her roam out of sight (gah!!) and only thinks to call her back occasionally. He likes to take photos and can get distracted. When we hike together, he accuses me of micro-managing because I want to always know where she is and have her close. My hope is that if I come up with a training plan, I can get him to use it too and we can train her to stay nearby *without constant monitoring* if he sees something he'd like a photo of.

What would be the best way to train her to stay within so many feet of us when the whole world is available?


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Use a leash.

IMO it is not realistic to expect a dog to stay within some constantly moving boundary without any command.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> Use a leash.
> 
> IMO it is not realistic to expect a dog to stay within some constantly moving boundary without any command.


Yeah, I'm thinking about getting a long training lead for when he goes picture hunting. 

The problem is that we have friends who have trained their hunting dogs to use a very loose heel until released using shock collars. So that's the way hubby wants to go. I think there must be a way to train the same thing with positive reinforcement.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I taught my dog "by me" which is a looser form of Heel. In "by me" she cannot stop and sniff and she cannot forge too far ahead or lag behind and she can go wide, but not way off wide. She can look around at stuff and does not need to be as close as in a formal heel. She was trained with Pos Reinf. (clicker) to understand where "by me" was (on lead) and then when she knew "by me" would be corrected for breaking it but food rewarded for keeping it (and for returning to it after a correction). Corrections were mild.. a reminder. She is 3 years old and almost entirely off lead.

I know someone else (also a GSD) that taught their dog "by me" was in a five foot radius of them. They used collar corrections and a leash and no Pos. Reinf. 

Ultimately, both dogs are trained. No E collar.


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## piraha (Sep 2, 2009)

The problem as I see it is you've allready estabilished a routine that allows her to roam. I believe that the only way to get her to stay with in a boundery is negative reinforment.

I don't believe it's necessary for you to buy a shock collar just the next time she leaves the boundery you decide on. Over react, yell, stomp, get really mad. Shock and scare her into a new way of thinking. Just do this once. Next time she gets close to your boundery give her a stern warning. After a while of this she'll come to understand she has new boundries. 

If she stays with in your boundries, treat and praise.

Hope this helps.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> I taught my dog "by me" which is a looser form of Heel. In "by me" she cannot stop and sniff and she cannot forge too far ahead or lag behind and she can go wide, but not way off wide. She can look around at stuff and does not need to be as close as in a formal heel. She was trained with Pos Reinf. (clicker) to understand where "by me" was (on lead) and then when she knew "by me" would be corrected for breaking it but food rewarded for keeping it (and for returning to it after a correction). Corrections were mild.. a reminder. She is 3 years old and almost entirely off lead.


This is more or less what I've done/been doing. I call it "stay close". When first going off-leash, how often did you have to give corrections? And did she get better at staying near you over time? 

I think this is just another case of us being impatient and becoming inconsistent. <sigh> And another case where I sometimes think married couples should have mediators facilitate conversations about dog/child upbringing.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

piraha said:


> The problem as I see it is you've allready estabilished a routine that allows her to roam.


Yep, I couldn't agree more. I don't know how my husband expects the dog to know where she's supposed to be if she isn't called back when she goes farther than he wants. Magic? Mind-reading?


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

My shepherd stays within a loose boundry around me, I would say its about a 30 foot radius around me, when off leash. I just did this by calling him back to me when he got farther than I liked and giving him a treat when he came back, then letting him go back out. I did this over, and over, and over, and over again and now when he hits that boundry he stops and looks at me. If I want him closer then I put him on a leash or tell him to walk nice (informal heel).


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

melgrj7 said:


> My shepherd stays within a loose boundry around me, I would say its about a 30 foot radius around me, when off leash. I just did this by calling him back to me when he got farther than I liked and giving him a treat when he came back, then letting him go back out. I did this over, and over, and over, and over again and now when he hits that boundry he stops and looks at me. If I want him closer then I put him on a leash or tell him to walk nice (informal heel).


How long did it take you? I'm hoping if I have some kind of time estimate, I can convince my husband to stick with it for at least that long.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

There's really no need to yell, stomp, growl at, shock or otherwise frighten your dog into wanting to stay with you on your walks. (Do you REALLY want that kind of relationship with your dog?) Case in point, one of my little dogs went into Agility training at SEVEN YEARS OLD and began learning, first on leash, then off leash, to stay with me on course and off without correction. There really isn't a "time frame" to consider as you will always be working with your dog to improve this skill. You've got to train her to understand what you want through many different distractions, distances and durations, with different handlers. First, you've got to know what YOU want, then understand that whatever that is most isn't realistic without going back to basics. I'd say a book like "Flatwork Foundation for Agility" would be a good place to get an idea of what I'm talking about: http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1213&ParentCat=261


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

pamperedpups said:


> There's really no need to yell, stomp, growl at, shock or otherwise frighten your dog into wanting to stay with you on your walks. (Do you REALLY want that kind of relationship with your dog?) Case in point, one of my little dogs went into Agility training at SEVEN YEARS OLD and began learning, first on leash, then off leash, to stay with me on course and off without correction. There really isn't a "time frame" to consider as you will always be working with your dog to improve this skill. You've got to train her to understand what you want through many different distractions, distances and durations, with different handlers. First, you've got to know what YOU want, then understand that whatever that is most isn't realistic without going back to basics. I'd say a book like "Flatwork Foundation for Agility" would be a good place to get an idea of what I'm talking about: http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1213&ParentCat=261


Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. Don't worry, I'm not planning on stomping or growling.  The time frame isn't really for me, it's for convincing my husband that pos training can be used to teach this behavior. If I tell him it's ongoing and that we'll always be working with her on this... well, he won't have the patience for it.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

It took me a year, starting with an untrained 6 month old GS dog, to get a reliable off leash "by me." We practice it daily on walks. We also train for competition obedience. 

We started by clicking and treating when she was in correct position and then added a cue.. all on leash. I expect her to stay "by me" until she is given another command or released. She is to sit when I stop. It is not a prefected sit/heel/attention.. something less and looser. If she started to forge, lag or go way wide, I would remind her with a collar correction and repetition of the command cue.. and immediately reward and treat when she got it right.. and I used the clicker for a good long while as it is very unnatural for a dog to walk with you abreast like this.


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## piraha (Sep 2, 2009)

Training a dog to stay close from the beggining is different that trying to break old habbits. It will work both ways... but YELLING and STOMPING to "shock" your dog into a new way of thinking and making her relise that it's not ok to leave you sight anymore, is in my opiontion better than buying a shock coller, and cheaper.

The time frame for Negitive + Positive reinforment is much shorter than Positive alone.

I would never tell someone to scare there dog when trying to train somthing new, but for breaking old habbits... I belive its the best way to erase the old idea's/training of what is ok and start freash.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

> My shepherd stays within a loose boundry around me, I would say its about a 30 foot radius around me, when off leash. I just did this by calling him back to me when he got farther than I liked and giving him a treat when he came back, then letting him go back out. I did this over, and over, and over, and over again and now when he hits that boundry he stops and looks at me. If I want him closer then I put him on a leash or tell him to walk nice (informal heel).


This works well, and requires consistancy. I do this off leash in the woods. Dog must stay in sight. You MUST pay attention to the dog to make it work, even with a dog that has been "allowed" to wander further away like yours has. 

Since your dog apparently has a good recall now I would refrain from the following:



> Training a dog to stay close from the beggining is different that trying to break old habbits. It will work both ways... but YELLING and STOMPING to "shock" your dog into a new way of thinking and making her relise that it's not ok to leave you sight anymore, is in my opiontion better than buying a shock coller, and cheaper.
> 
> The time frame for Negitive + Positive reinforment is much shorter than Positive alone.
> 
> I would never tell someone to scare there dog when trying to train somthing new, but for breaking old habbits... I belive its the best way to erase the old idea's/training of what is ok and start freash.


And my reason for wanting to steer clear of stomping, yelling etc. is that your dog now comes to you willingly. You never want to mess that up. You always want to dog to come to you and do so willingly and never be afraid of you.


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## hulkamaniac (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree with the first responder. Why not just make it easier on everyone and buy a leash? They're cheap. There's no training involved and they work. Besides, off leash dogs make me extremely nervous. I know. Your dog is highly trained, not vicious, etc., etc, but I have no idea that's the case.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

One thing I think that helps to keep your dog close is every time they start to get too far, just turn and walk the other way, or hide from them. It is not long before they start to keep their eye on you to make sure you are still there.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

hulkamaniac said:


> I agree with the first responder. Why not just make it easier on everyone and buy a leash? They're cheap. There's no training involved and they work. Besides, off leash dogs make me extremely nervous. I know. Your dog is highly trained, not vicious, etc., etc, but I have no idea that's the case.


I agree when it comes to dogs running around loose.. especially in a city environment. In the case of a hike in the woods it would be very cumbersome (having done it during training). While the OP did not say as much. I assumed this dog was in a rural area.. no roads, streets etc. 

I will also add that my dog, while working off leash, is in heel position and focused on me.. looking at my face, when we are walking and we see other dogs walking with their owners. She is not running up to them. She HAS to be this well trained or we will never make it in the Obedience ring. 

A dog that is hiking in a rural setting with you off leash should never approach other hikers or other dogs. Your dog should be right by you and should not interact with others (human or dog etc.). I have practiced this enough so that if we are hiking (and I mean hiking on trails, not in a park on a paved path or in a city) and she sees other hikers or dogs before I do, she comes back to me since I have always had her do this anyway. 

If your dog runs up to other people and other dogs unbidden, your dog needs a leash on until trained not to do this. 

The fact of the matter is that a deer can run right in front of us, and Atka does not give chase and recalls to me. Happens nightly in our front yard. She is let out to go to the bathroom and deer will be right in front of her. She looks, I tell her leave it and go pee and she does. The deer runs off. After hearing leave it she does not even look.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Kyllobernese said:


> One thing I think that helps to keep your dog close is every time they start to get too far, just turn and walk the other way, or hide from them. It is not long before they start to keep their eye on you to make sure you are still there.


Hiding works very well for my dogs. They freak out.

Works well with dogs that want to keep you in sight anyway, that definately doesn't cover all dogs though. Some dogs couldn't care less.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Elana55 said:


> I agree when it comes to dogs running around loose.. especially in a city environment. In the case of a hike in the woods it would be very cumbersome (having done it during training). While the OP did not say as much. I assumed this dog was in a rural area.. no roads, streets etc.
> 
> I will also add that my dog, while working off leash, is in heel position and focused on me.. looking at my face, when we are walking and we see other dogs walking with their owners. She is not running up to them. She HAS to be this well trained or we will never make it in the Obedience ring.
> 
> ...


Yep, this is a very rural area. We rarely run into other people when we go hiking. And if we do, their dogs are almost always off leash. Sometimes well-behaved, sometimes not. She can be called off other people, dogs, horses, and deer. Squirrels are a bit more difficult and require me to be closer physically. We're just starting to work on heel and she can be reactive when meeting other dogs on a leash so I gauge the situation. If the other owners don't appear to be in control of their dogs, I put her in a sit stay and wait until the dogs come up to us before I release her and let her greet them. If they are well-behaved and stick with their owners, I put her on a leash and we simply pass by.

We started off doing leash work with her when hiking. I tethered her to my backpack waist band. I mean, we didn't even know this dog, she was 8 months and a stray. Of course I was going to have her on a leash. But it is cumbersome and can start to feel pretty ridiculous when you run into 1 person in 60 hours of hiking. I might go back to a 20 ft leash for a while while I think about how to make this work though. At the very least, it will help me establish a mental picture of how far 20 ft is from me and help me be more consistent at enforcing that boundary.

hulk, I have a regular leash for walking around the neighborhood and in town and in the city parks. Don't worry, this is strictly for hiking.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Kyllobernese said:


> One thing I think that helps to keep your dog close is every time they start to get too far, just turn and walk the other way, or hide from them. It is not long before they start to keep their eye on you to make sure you are still there.


Yep, I try this when possible. It actually turns into a fun game and turns the walk into an activity that centers around me. Which is always my goal. With my dog, I am a total narcissist. I live in Big Sky country though. Sometimes it's difficult to find things to hide behind.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

One other thing I did with Nash when I first got him was I put a long line on him and stood in one spot. He ignored me for awhile and eventually got frustrated we weren't moving and looked at me, I marked and rewarded it with a treat. I kept doing that until he wouldn't leave my side, then I took a step, did the same thing (mark and reward for looking at me, once he wouldn't leave my side I took a step). I started this with a 15 foot line, then a 30 foot. Worked my way up to just walking, with the dog on a 30 foot leash happily at my side. I actually did this as a step in loose leash walking, but I think it may also have helped with "boundry" thing when off leash. 

He was reliably maintaining the boundry around me after I had only had him for a few months. This is with daily training, for the first week or two I did the above, at many places. When I started going to the park he was on leash at first, but it was a pain, so we went off leash and I just called him when he to far. We go to the park pretty much everyday for about 2 hours, in the beginning I was constantly having to call him back to me, eventually he just stopped going past that point.


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