# Nail cutting alternative



## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

So I've kinda found out why Jubel isn't too happy about getting his nails trimmed/ground. His quicks are really long so it likely hurts or is at least uncomfortable when he gets them trimmed even if the quick isn't hit. Even with getting his nails trimmed/ground every 3-4 weeks they are still pretty long because they can't go too far without hitting the quick. At $10 a pop I don't feel taking him in for small trims once a week is a good option. 

He won't let me trim his nails without a huge struggle and I don't think he'd react any better if I borrowed a friends grinder. What I'm thinking of trying is a big emery board to manually grind them down slowly. Based on his reaction will determine how many nails I do at a time. Hopefully doing small sessions almost everyday to slowly shorten his nails will eventually recede his quicks and bring his nails to a better length. 

Do this sound like a good plan? Anyone else with similar experience and an idea of how long it may take to get his quicks receding?


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

dagwall said:


> So I've kinda found out why Jubel isn't too happy about getting his nails trimmed/ground. His quicks are really long so it likely hurts or is at least uncomfortable when he gets them trimmed even if the quick isn't hit. Even with getting his nails trimmed/ground every 3-4 weeks they are still pretty long because they can't go too far without hitting the quick. At $10 a pop I don't feel taking him in for small trims once a week is a good option.
> 
> He won't let me trim his nails without a huge struggle and I don't think he'd react any better if I borrowed a friends grinder. What I'm thinking of trying is a big emery board to manually grind them down slowly. Based on his reaction will determine how many nails I do at a time. Hopefully doing small sessions almost everyday to slowly shorten his nails will eventually recede his quicks and bring his nails to a better length.
> 
> Do this sound like a good plan? Anyone else with similar experience and an idea of how long it may take to get his quicks receding?


It sounds like it'd be worth a try (what have you got to lose?) Unless I dremel Tags's nails (literally) every other day, he's got long quicks that are here to stay I'm afraid. My other two dogs have "cat feet" (short toes, compact, etc) where-as Tags' feet are more splayed out and his toes are actually longer, so I'm wondering if the naturally long quicks aren't there for a reason. (Better traction for his type of foot? I dunno. The other two dogs have short quicks, easy to deal with). Good luck


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I've personally never made any progress doing that. But it might be worth it to just acclimate him to being handled. To recede the quick you have to cut the nails as short as you can as often as you can. For me the routine was a dremeling every 3 days, and I trimmed the nail all around the quick, so the quick sort of stuck out a bit, and this dramatically sped up the receding. I don't think you'll be able to remove enough nail with a regular emery board, but a dremel might be helpful for you. 

For me, nail trimmings got easier when I stopped worrying about whether or not my dog liked it and started worrying about getting an important grooming procedure done quickly and efficiently. I have a good tutorial video on how to acclimate a dog to trimmings, and also a good article showing close-up pictures of nails and explaining how to trim them right. Let me know if you need those resources and I'll link them when I get off work. 

Also, remember that walking with too long of nails can be painful as well, so it's best to work through it, even if your dog shows some discomfort (obviously this is within reason).


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

It's not so much me worrying about him not liking it as not wanting to get bit. One problem is I think the nail trimmer I bought in the first place isn't that great so that doesn't help. But I don't have the equipment the groomers do to help keep him controled. He's a really strong dog so holding his paw to cut the nail when he tries to pull away and not get snapped at because he's VERY unhappy with what I'm trying to do is a great challenge. The closest he's every come to biting my brother and I was when we tried to restrain him and trim his nails. If we continued to press him I think he might have biten one of us.

Today I bought some emery boards at the dollar store and tried them out. He didn't think too highly of the sensation but I think he really wanted to chew on the emery board more than anything else. I did end up breaking out the nail trimmer I have and getting small snips on 3 of his nails before he'd really had enough. He got lots of praise while I got a little trimming done and some treats after. Without really good light it's very hard to see his quicks because his nails are a dark brown. I'll just have to slowly trim small bits as he lets me.

The nails are short enough that they shouldn't cause discomfort when walking. They don't start making a clicking sound on the hardwood floors until about week 3 after going to the groomers for a trim. They are just much longer than I'd like as he likes to paw and 'grip' with his nails, would be nicer if he didn't have so much to 'grip' with. Also if we start bikejoring it'd be much safter for his paws to have shorter nails.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

In think in that case I would do something like this:





Also, while treats are a-ok I personally have found that the less I say during the process the better. I think from a doggie perspective what I saw as praise, she saw as a kind of confirmation that something noteworthy was going on, and that just made the process all the more stressful. So now I am calm, silent, and a random treat dispenser during trimmings. 

Sounds like you're making some progress though, that's great! Sydney also has dark, thick nails and I found a dremel MUCH easier to use because of that, since you're grinding down, not cutting off, if that makes any sense. The likelihood of accidentally quicking the dog is less in my experience.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Yeah he's 53# so restraining isn't that easy. I have tried some counter conditioning with the clippers and he really only reacts when I actually cut. When I'm not restraining him his reaction is just to pull away, if he's restrained he'll snap. Never actually biten but when he snaps he'll kinda smack you with his mouth, while not a bite it doesn't feel good if he lands it.

He's gotten his nails ground a few times at the groomers and I guess he didn't react any worse than when he gets trimmed so I could try it. My friend just recently lost one of her dogs who would let her use a grinder. Her other dog and new dog both won't tolerate the grinder but will let her cut their nails. So she has no use for the grinder now and offered it to me. I guess I'll ask her if I can borrow it and try it out on Jubel myself.


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## jkliveng (Jul 7, 2011)

about ten minutes running on the tennis court blows our pet stores pedicure out of the water.


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## amberly (Feb 6, 2011)

it probly won't make much of a dif, i've filed dogs nails to rid the points wout the dremmel/grinder at work after a nail trim it'll take a very very long time. so he'll probly grow faster than u could keep up with. some dogs just don't seem to like the nail trim no matter what you do. but even when it seems like its not doing anything it still is effective. you need to get that quick exsposed to the air so that it can shrink back. or take him out on cement so he can run and run and naturally grind them down. tons of walks! just make sure he doesn't sore up his feet or anything. 

also in my case i have three dogs. and its my pit bull who hates his nails even tho i've done em since he was a pup. i do have my own table now at home which helps tons! you can also try to find used fold up grooming tables to buy. you can find em from 30-50 bucks w an arm. or do what i did before i got the table, i'd put a leash on him and than tie it to a door so that he couldn't run away around the house. i give him treats piles of treats and petting and sweet talking and super "good boy!!!" after each nail. over time hes gotten a lot better even let me dremmel his nails a few times after the nail trim. if you have someone who can pet him and interact and hold him and scratch his ears ect while you do it even if you only get a lil bit off it'll alll help tons.

see when you use the emery board you'll still get that same vibration and friction feeling you would w the grinder. which is what most dogs dont like about it. it won't be as intense but some dogs don't like the feeling eaither way. you really want the quick to be exsposed.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Well I definitely exposed the quick on one of his dew claws yesterday. I've been doing about 5 minutes of desensitizing each day the last few days. I might trim a little off one nail and then just put the trimmer against or over his nail but not cut. He's pulling away a little less but I'm also not holding the paw so still different than the cutting experience. Yesterday he was softly mouthing the trimmer half the time I slide it over a nail. No matter what this is going to be a very slow process with him, my friend should be bringing her grinder to work today so I can borrow it. I'll just have to see how he reacts to that.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

dagwall said:


> Well I definitely exposed the quick on one of his dew claws yesterday. I've been doing about 5 minutes of desensitizing each day the last few days. I might trim a little off one nail and then just put the trimmer against or over his nail but not cut. He's pulling away a little less but I'm also not holding the paw so still different than the cutting experience. Yesterday he was softly mouthing the trimmer half the time I slide it over a nail. No matter what this is going to be a very slow process with him, my friend should be bringing her grinder to work today so I can borrow it. I'll just have to see how he reacts to that.


That's great about making progress on the dew claws. I don't know if you've noticed this, but I find that most dogs are more sensitive about having their front nails trimmed. So maybe you can work on the back ones for a while and then move to the front ones once you've made some progress. It did take a long while to get Sydney used to having her front nails trimmed, and it took me significantly longer to get them back to a good length than the back nails.

Good luck with the grinder! I found that acclimating to the grinder was easier than acclimating to the clippers because even if you can only press on the nail for 2 seconds (while someone else is treating him, not after you do it, but simultaneously) you'll make more progress than a longer amount of time with the nail file. And you don't have to hold him quite as still to get the job done. Also, remember that it will heat up the nail, so try not to repetitively dremel the exact same part of the nail for more than a few seconds. What I generally do is small strokes from one side of the nail to the other, then I check how close I am to the quick and start again where I made the first stroke. It's hard to explain, lol, so I hope this makes sense. Also, I always use the "high" setting because it creates less drag and I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it's easier than on a lower setting and seems more comfortable to the dog. 

Finally, I wouldn't try to actually use the dremel for a while. I'd start by acclimating him to having it near him, then touching his foot while off. Then I'd move to acclimating him to the sound of it on but not very near him. Then to the dremel on, just barely touching his nail, then to actually doing some trimming, one nail in each session. I'd imagine for a dog like you've described this will take a few months, but I promise it won't feel that long. Or it didn't for me once I started to see small amounts of progress.

Oh, btw, to show you I've been there, here's what Sydney's nails looked like a year ago. She literally would not let me trim them and the quicks were so so long.









And here's what they look like today.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

These are his nails back in March... not much has changed since then. 











I'm actually making less and less progress with trimming his nails myself as he realizes I really do want to trim all his nails he's resisting more. My co-worker keeps forgeting to bring in the grinder so I haven't gotten to try that yet.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

dagwall said:


> These are his nails back in March... not much has changed since then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, the good news is they don't look too too bad to me. They definitely need a trim but they're no where near as bad as Sydney's were!

Is there any chance you could just stick a muzzle on him then work on the acclimation method I linked above (the video)? I think I remember things getting a little worse with Sydney before they got better. For a while I would have to have my boyfriend restrain her while I clipped, then I moved up to me sitting on her while I clipped and now she lays in my lap while I clip. 

This wasn't ideal (I'd prefer to clip them with her sitting) but it works for her. If I were to get another dog I'd definitely make nail trimming acclimation a big part of their puppyhood, because it really can be a struggle when they grow up not being used to it.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

She remembered to bring in the grinder today so I'll see how he reacts tonight. 

As for future dogs I don't intend on getting anything but young adult dogs so I'll just have to hope for the best and possibly go through a similar struggle with them as I'm going through with Jubel now.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Started the grinder desensitization last night I think actually trying to use the grinder is at least a few day away right now. Upon first seeing it he wanted to sniff, lick, mouth it but was not comfortable with my touching him with it. Once he'd let me touch him with it pretty much anywhere on his body I held it in my hand away from him and turned it on. The sound definitely made him step back so I gradually got him used to the sound. Alternating between touching him with the grinder off and having the grinder on near him. By the end of the 'session' I could sometimes touch the on grinder to him, not grinding a nail just the vibrations on him, without an immediate jerking away. 

I'll continue with this for a few days and hope to actually try a nail in a soon.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Did you know that rubbing your dogs feet (pads) releases endorphins?


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

I didn't but he has no issues with me handeling his feet as long as I'm not trying to bring a clipper near them. He knows what the clipper is and what I intend to do with it, my hands themselves are 'threatening'. He usually gets a good 5 minute snuggle/rub down before we go to bed haha.


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## Allyfally (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm having this problem with Judas, as well. He doesnt mind me touching his feet when I'm not holding the clippers, but as soon as I pick them up he will not stop struggling. I'm too scared to even try the dremmel on them because he's so strong if he made me lose my grip, we'd both be hurt.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Allyfally said:


> I'm having this problem with Judas, as well. He doesnt mind me touching his feet when I'm not holding the clippers, but as soon as I pick them up he will not stop struggling. I'm too scared to even try the dremmel on them because he's so strong if he made me lose my grip, we'd both be hurt.


Nah, it's not really that dangerous. I've dremeled my wrist and finger tips a billion times, and also the pad of Sydney's feet and it's mostly harmess. Of course, you want to be carful, but it's not going to like, cut you up or anything under normal circumstances.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

The grinder I got from my friend is pedi-paws and there is a cover on the grinding part with a smallish hole for placing the nail, not much risk of injury there. But yeah, same issue with Judas as I have with Jubel... they are strong and not really easy to control against their will. I'm thinking it'll be easier with the grinder even if he isn't happy about it. Quickly applying the nail to the grinder is easier than holding him still long enough to properly place the clipper over the nail AND cut before he pulls away. So even if he won't hold still long enough to grind much nail away it's more than I get with him pulling away before I can position the clipper over the nail.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

dagwall said:


> The grinder I got from my friend is pedi-paws and there is a cover on the grinding part with a smallish hole for placing the nail, not much risk of injury there. But yeah, same issue with Judas as I have with Jubel... they are strong and not really easy to control against their will. I'm thinking it'll be easier with the grinder even if he isn't happy about it. Quickly applying the nail to the grinder is easier than holding him still long enough to properly place the clipper over the nail AND cut before he pulls away. So even if he won't hold still long enough to grind much nail away it's more than I get with him pulling away before I can position the clipper over the nail.


The pedi-paws might be ok for acclimation, but you might end up needing a higher powered dremel. I use a Minimite cordless dremel tool, made for wood working.  Sydney has kind of freakishly thick nails though, so maybe it's just me who couldn't make the pedi-paws work for me.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Progress update:

After much acclimation time I can finally make some decent progress on grinding down Jubel's nails. I got busy and missed a few days sometime in week 2 and discovered that he actually did better with a few days in between sessions. So I dropped it down to every 2-3 days spending about 5-8 minutes with him and the grinder. About a week ago he was okay with 3-4 second grinds on his back paw nails but still mouthing at the grinder for his front paw nails. Few days ago I could sometimes get a few seconds on his front nails before he pulled away and/or mouthed the grinder. Today for the first time I used treats in between each nail and he let me get 3-4 seconds on his front nails 90% of the time. Previously he was getting something nice after we finished out grinding session today treats while grinding, helped a lot. Not sure if it would have been the same if I'd start with treats at the begining. I'm inclined to believe he would still have been too on edge about the grinder to care about the treats AND staying still.

Might end up buying a minimite grinder down the road but right now the pedi-paws is working well enough that I shouldn't have to take him back into the groomers for nail trims anymore. Maybe once he gets used to it enough to not mouth at the grinder at all, for now the guard on the pedi-paws makes it very appealing as it prevents him from getting his mouth on the spinning grinder.

As long as I keep it up every few days I should get his nails to a nice short length in the not too distant furture.


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