# Feeding a puppy adult dog food



## becksterorange (Nov 13, 2010)

I sent my husband out to get our 6 month old puppy dog food. I told him to get Taste of the Wild. Which he did. But I wasn't specific enough I guess and he got adult formula. Thankfully he got a small bag. Is this going to make my puppy have any problems?


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

Transition slowly & pup should have no issues. Taste of the Wild is an all life stages food, they dont make a puppy formula (or adult or senior). Ive had Buster on various flavors since he was 4 1/2 months.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

TOTW doesn't have a puppy formula, it's all ALS. 

Generally grain free foods (like TOTW) are nto recommended for puppies under a year of age. DEFINITELY not recommended for a large breed puppy. What breed is your pup?

Feeding a high-quality adult food is generally fine for all puppies as the calcium level is appropriate for a growing pup. All life stages have higher calcium levels (which makes NO sense to me... ) and therefore are not suited for all life stages of dogs.


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## becksterorange (Nov 13, 2010)

He is a border collie/lab mix. He is about 50lbs right now. The vet is predicting he will max out at about 60-65lbs. I fed him some for dinner and he didn't have diarrhea. At what age do you transition from puppy food to adult food. I wanted Call Of the Wild because it was recommended. Now I don't know what I should feed him anymore. Diamond maybe?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

becksterorange said:


> He is a border collie/lab mix. He is about 50lbs right now. The vet is predicting he will max out at about 60-65lbs. I fed him some for dinner and he didn't have diarrhea. At what age do you transition from puppy food to adult food. I wanted Call Of the Wild because it was recommended. Now I don't know what I should feed him anymore. Diamond maybe?


I probably wouldn't be worried about a dog that size on it already. If he's doing good, keep it I say. For a large breed I would transition at a year. We did a little sooner to TOTW for Frag's TERRIBLE allergies because the pros outweighed the risks and he is fine. I think your pup will be fine, too.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

Many large (and giant breed) dogs do just fine on TOTW from the time they are brought home (between 8-12 weeks). I know of breeders that actually wean their pups on it. It's perfectly safe.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Loki Love said:


> Many large (and giant breed) dogs do just fine on TOTW from the time they are brought home (between 8-12 weeks). I know of breeders that actually wean their pups on it. It's perfectly safe.


This is not true. I know of many breeders that feed purina. Does that mean it's safe for their dogs? NO. 

TOTW has calcium content levels far too high for a large breed puppy. Please, PLEASE do some research on appropriate calcium content and stop telling people that over 2% of calcium is good for a LBP or GBP. It is NOT safe. These sized/aged dogs should be getting a maximum of 1.6% calcium in their food, and YES, it DOES make a difference.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> This is not true. I know of many breeders that feed purina. Does that mean it's safe for their dogs? NO.
> 
> TOTW has calcium content levels far too high for a large breed puppy. Please, PLEASE do some research on appropriate calcium content and stop telling people that over 2% of calcium is good for a LBP or GBP. It is NOT safe. These sized/aged dogs should be getting a maximum of 1.6% calcium in their food, and YES, it DOES make a difference.


I'm not going to have the same argument with you all over again


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Loki Love said:


> I'm not going to have the same argument with you all over again


I don't want to argue, I want to educate. I tried this before, and you're completely unwilling to learn. If you aren't open minded, why are you on a forum? We're supposed to discuss ideas and learn, aren't we?

I wouldn't have an issue if you were trying to argue something dumb like that poodles are purple, but if someone takes your advice, their dog could suffer from it. Even if you want to discount EVERYTHING I've said and the articles I've given you, flip over a bag of TOTW. It specifically states that it is not recommended for dogs less than a year old.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I don't want to argue, I want to educate. I tried this before, and you're completely unwilling to learn. If you aren't open minded, why are you on a forum? We're supposed to discuss ideas and learn, aren't we?
> 
> I wouldn't have an issue if you were trying to argue something dumb like that poodles are purple, but if someone takes your advice, their dog could suffer from it. Even if you want to discount EVERYTHING I've said and the articles I've given you, flip over a bag of TOTW. It specifically states that it is not recommended for dogs less than a year old.


Everyone is accountable for their own decisions. Nothing should ever be taken verbatim from the internet without doing your own research and placing your own personal feelings into the subject. 

Again - not having this discussion with you. I know what I know and don't need further education on this FROM YOU. End of discussion for me.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Loki Love said:


> Everyone is accountable for their own decisions. Nothing should ever be taken verbatim from the internet without doing your own research and placing your own personal feelings into the subject.
> 
> Again - not having this discussion with you. I know what I know and don't need further education on this FROM YOU. End of discussion for me.


You need to realize that you are giving people very bad advice that can harm their dogs. Why wouldn't you care about that? People come here looking for advice, and something as common as food advice is usually taken from us. You need to set a better example.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> You need to set a better example.


And you need to know when to give up. Thanks!


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I do believe lbp should be fed lower calcium, however
the FAQ section of the TOTW site explicitly says you can feed it to puppies, even large breeds. 

That being said, I played it safe with hunter and fed him
Orijen large breed formula because it has max calcium level of 1.7, the lowest among grain free formulas I considered. He did excellent on it and I highly recommend it to all big puppy owners


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## Horseshoe (Nov 10, 2010)

DJ** It states on my bag of TOTW Formulated to meet the nutritional needs of your dog throughout all stages of life, from puppy to senior. I did my homework and researched this brand as I do every brand and not all the TOTW are equal in cal. phos ratios. The one I feed is the pacific stream with smoked salmon....the calcium phos ratio is lower than the bison/venison. I feed that plus I alternate bb wilderness plus several times a week I feed raw along with the kibble. 

We all want the best for our dogs so learning how too means reading everything, discussing everything and then making an educated decision or at least we hope we are. Arguing over it isn't the way to inform or learn. 

The best way to determine which dog food or puppy food is best is to call the company, then come on here. Unfortunately vets don't get much more than a few hours of "nutrition" for dogs. My cousin is a vet and I wouldn't ask him anything about horse feed or dog feed. 

I have fed a bag or 2 of the higher cal. content TOTW to my pup...I doubt that is enough to do any damage since it was split between 4 other dogs and raw. We also have BC's so while they can have elbow and hip displaysia in this breed ours have been cert. good, I'm not to worried.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Horseshoe said:


> DJ** It states on my bag of TOTW Formulated to meet the nutritional needs of your dog throughout all stages of life, from puppy to senior. I did my homework and researched this brand as I do every brand and not all the TOTW are equal in cal. phos ratios. The one I feed is the pacific stream with smoked salmon....the calcium phos ratio is lower than the bison/venison. I feed that plus I alternate bb wilderness plus several times a week I feed raw along with the kibble.


They must have changed the bag. I remember when we switched to it first it was printed on the bag that is wasn't intended for dogs younger than a year. Nothing calcium-wise has changed, soo... 

Pacific stream still has too high of a calcium level for lbp even if it is the lowest of all formulas. 

I also would not ask the company for help. I've been told so many lies by blue buffalo upon calling them and talking to store reps.


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## Horseshoe (Nov 10, 2010)

**The best way to determine which dog food or puppy food is best is to call the company, then come on here.** That was my point DJ...to talk to as many people as you can, don't believe everything you read on the internet either. Anybody can put anything on there and call it a fact.

Actually the cal phos ratio on the TOTW pacific stream is fine for our dogs...I wouldn't want to go any higher which is why I don't feed the venison/bison...its to high. Since I rotate, I'm not to worried. 1.9 cal: 1.1 phos, the "recommended" is 1.0-1.8 cal;.8-1.6 phos. so .1 higher than recommended.

I agree the BB store reps are idiots and I can say that from experience. I've only called the companies when I want to varifiy something I already know or recommend something to them. I don't take them at their word either.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

DJEtzel said:


> They must have changed the bag. I remember when we switched to it first it was printed on the bag that is wasn't intended for dogs younger than a year.


Are you sure it was TOTW? I'm pretty sure it's always been labeled as an all-life-stages food. And of course ALL life stages means puppy, adult, senior. 

EVO and Wellness CORE both say not to feed them to puppies under a year.


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## Chikyuu (May 1, 2010)

If TOTW is not suitable for dogs under a year, I guess River is royally screwed. I've raised her on it since around 10 weeks, and she's a BC/Husky/GSD from what the feed store told us.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

I give my puppy (6 months) a mixture of puppy dry food mixed with adult tin food, along with the occasional chicken wing, and he is growing and healthy and doing well in every way. I used to feed them both BARF (my adult dog is 18 months), and they were both fine on that as well, other than soft stools and they eventually got sick of it, which is why they get different food now.

But I don't think it's that big of a deal, as long as it's a good quality food.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

The cal phos ratio guidelines are just that - guidelines. The article I refer to often indicates* nothing over 1.6 cal is for those puppies/dogs that are at a high risk of developing growth problems*; the same study clearly states that anything over 3% shows a higher risk for growth problems. We can conclude that up to 3% would be safe - given your dog does not run into the high risk category. 

Different lines are more prone to bone disease, etc - you have to know the risks of course. It's best you ideally talk to your breeder, talk to those you trust, do your own research and at the end, make a decision that you are most comfortable with.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Willowy said:


> Are you sure it was TOTW? I'm pretty sure it's always been labeled as an all-life-stages food. And of course ALL life stages means puppy, adult, senior.
> 
> EVO and Wellness CORE both say not to feed them to puppies under a year.


I am 95% sure it was TOTW, but it has been a while. Either way though, TOTW's formulas (with the exception of sierra mountain) all have the same amount of Calcium as Wellness Core does, give or take .1% 

If wellness isn't meant for dogs under a year (due to calcium issues), why would TOTW be okay, when it has the same amount of calcium, if not _more_?



Chikyuu said:


> If TOTW is not suitable for dogs under a year, I guess River is royally screwed. I've raised her on it since around 10 weeks, and she's a BC/Husky/GSD from what the feed store told us.


I would definitely never put a large breed dog like that on such a high-calcium dog food. It is very likely that your dog grew a lot faster than she should have, which may or may not have effects in the future. Which formula? I have found that the new formula put out by TOTW has much lower calcium levels like that of Orijen LBP that I would feel more safe feeding, but none of the others.



Loki Love said:


> The cal phos ratio guidelines are just that - guidelines. The article I refer to often indicates* nothing over 1.6 cal is for those puppies/dogs that are at a high risk of developing growth problems*; the same study clearly states that anything over 3% shows a higher risk for growth problems. We can conclude that up to 3% would be safe - given your dog does not run into the high risk category.
> 
> Different lines are more prone to bone disease, etc - you have to know the risks of course. It's best you ideally talk to your breeder, talk to those you trust, do your own research and at the end, make a decision that you are most comfortable with.


And all of the articles I gave you stated much different. What article are you referring to, is it accredited?

I can't find a food that states cal. levels over 3%. Based on my studies and knowledge, anything over 1.5-1.6% is too much for a large breed dog. It shouldn't have anything to do with what risk level they're at, the food is making them grow faster than they're supposed to, which can alter the state of the bone completely in some cases.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> What article are you referring to, is it accredited?


https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm


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## Chikyuu (May 1, 2010)

I rotated her between Bison and Fowl formulas because my parents hated the smell of the Fish Formula, and the Lamb Formula only came out recently. I'm thinking of switching her to Chicken Soup (By Febuary she'll be 11 months old) for sake of rotating the ingredients in her food.

She's not really a "large" dog though, because she's a mix she's almost 11 months at only around 40 lbs.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Loki Love said:


> The cal phos ratio guidelines are just that - guidelines. The article I refer to often indicates* nothing over 1.6 cal is for those puppies/dogs that are at a high risk of developing growth problems*; the same study clearly states that anything over 3% shows a higher risk for growth problems. We can conclude that up to 3% would be safe - given your dog does not run into the high risk category.
> 
> Different lines are more prone to bone disease, etc - you have to know the risks of course. It's best you ideally talk to your breeder, talk to those you trust, do your own research and at the end, make a decision that you are most comfortable with.


I believe you're picking out what you want to hear or are not reading it correctly. From your source;



> "Calcium levels for a growth diet should be between 1% and 1.6%"


Hmmm. Also, from what I saw, this article was written by Science Diet's company founder and from 1995. I don't know if I'd call that accredited, but it does still agree with everything I've read. 

Chikyuu, I would not be worried about River. If she's only that large, I would think that the food wouldn't effect her too negatively at all.


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## Chikyuu (May 1, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Chikyuu, I would not be worried about River. If she's only that large, I would think that the food wouldn't effect her too negatively at all.


Phew, good. The whole reason I got TOTW anyway was because I didn't know how big she would get and couldn't choose between a regular and large breed puppy formula X_X. But because of her mix and growth rate I was told she wouldn't get past 50 pounds anyway. But TOTW is pretty cheap and she likes it and does well on it.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

becksterorange said:


> I sent my husband out to get our 6 month old puppy dog food. I told him to get Taste of the Wild. Which he did. But I wasn't specific enough I guess and he got adult formula. Thankfully he got a small bag. Is this going to make my puppy have any problems?


Taste of the Wild is "all life stages," isn't it?
Honestly, it's been years since I've fed a 6 month old puppy "puppy food." (But then again, it's been years since I had a 6 month old puppy - well before then, even!)



DJEtzel said:


> TOTW doesn't have a puppy formula, it's all ALS.
> 
> Generally grain free foods (like TOTW) are nto recommended for puppies under a year of age. DEFINITELY not recommended for a large breed puppy. What breed is your pup?
> 
> Feeding a high-quality adult food is generally fine for all puppies as the calcium level is appropriate for a growing pup. All life stages have higher calcium levels (which makes NO sense to me... ) and therefore are not suited for all life stages of dogs.



Actually, the calcium level in TOTW is well below the maximum recommended for a growing puppy.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I believe you're picking out what you want to hear or are not reading it correctly.


Don't think so - but we've been down this road before. Good luck!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Pawzk9 said:


> Taste of the Wild is "all life stages," isn't it?
> Honestly, it's been years since I've fed a 6 month old puppy "puppy food." (But then again, it's been years since I had a 6 month old puppy - well before then, even!)
> 
> Actually, the calcium level in TOTW is well below the maximum recommended for a growing puppy.


TOTW is an all life stages, but if you look at it and other ALS foods, they are not REALLY for all life stages- ie; large breed puppies.

NO, the calcium level in TOTW is not well below the max. recommended for a growing _large breed _puppy. What do you think the maximum recommended for them is? Because the calcium level in TOTW is 2%, give or take .1%.



Loki Love said:


> Don't think so - but we've been down this road before. Good luck!


How don't you think so? You gave an article, and I stated the levels they suggested straight out of it. You're trying to make up assumptions about it that do not exist.


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## BrittanieJo (Sep 23, 2010)

DJ your opinions on this subject were my concerns as well so I thought you might be able to help me out here. Yesterday Aggie was switched to TOTW she's 6 months old (almost 7) and a lab pit mix (weighs about 40 lbs currently). The reason for the switch was the vet ran some allergy tests and Aggie is allergic to chicken and grain and that she was starting to puff up along w/ gastro problems. Our vet felt it best to move her from Blue Buffalo to TOTW so that we do not have to transition her from puppy food to adult food with all her allergies and because he honestly prefers TOTW (his vet tech prefers Blue lol). I'm worried that because this is such a high protein and calcium food it might cause her problems with growth. The vet said not to worry that that would only apply to breeds prone to hip dysplasia and neither lab nor pits are part of those breeds and that we can limit this by feeding smaller amounts (a cup and a half twice a day rather than the two cups twice a day). He said that with the risks grains pose this was the best decision and brand of food. Do you disagree? Aggie loves the food (we are doing the bison version, she flat out refused the lamb or fish) and while her stool is runny I expect that due to the cold switch (her allergies were too severe to transition) she seems to like it better than Blue. My husband says I'm being neurotic but we both want the best for her. I definitely appreciate the cheaper cost of TOTW though!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

BrittanieJo said:


> DJ your opinions on this subject were my concerns as well so I thought you might be able to help me out here. Yesterday Aggie was switched to TOTW she's 6 months old (almost 7) and a lab pit mix (weighs about 40 lbs currently). The reason for the switch was the vet ran some allergy tests and Aggie is allergic to chicken and grain and that she was starting to puff up along w/ gastro problems. Our vet felt it best to move her from Blue Buffalo to TOTW so that we do not have to transition her from puppy food to adult food with all her allergies and because he honestly prefers TOTW (his vet tech prefers Blue lol). I'm worried that because this is such a high protein and calcium food it might cause her problems with growth. The vet said not to worry that that would only apply to breeds prone to hip dysplasia and neither lab nor pits are part of those breeds and that we can limit this by feeding smaller amounts (a cup and a half twice a day rather than the two cups twice a day). He said that with the risks grains pose this was the best decision and brand of food. Do you disagree? Aggie loves the food (we are doing the bison version, she flat out refused the lamb or fish) and while her stool is runny I expect that due to the cold switch (her allergies were too severe to transition) she seems to like it better than Blue. My husband says I'm being neurotic but we both want the best for her. I definitely appreciate the cheaper cost of TOTW though!


I don't disagree with your vet. At 7 months and 40lbs, she is likely close to finished growing, and I do not feel that the benefit outweighs the suffering of allergies. We, too, switched Frag to TOTW a little early for the exact same allergies. 

If she's having loose stool on the food, it could be a result of too much food/protein. Cut back the feeding amount and add some green beans to her diet so that she still feels as full as before. Should do the trick.


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## BrittanieJo (Sep 23, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I don't disagree with your vet. At 7 months and 40lbs, she is likely close to finished growing, and I do not feel that the benefit outweighs the suffering of allergies. We, too, switched Frag to TOTW a little early for the exact same allergies.
> 
> If she's having loose stool on the food, it could be a result of too much food/protein. Cut back the feeding amount and add some green beans to her diet so that she still feels as full as before. Should do the trick.


Wonderful we will keep an eye out. She LOVES green beans so no problems there lol.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Was just reading about this the other day on VIN. They always have veterinary nutritional specialists to answer some of the more difficult questions. Here's a couple quotes from the board concerning large breed puppies and rec. calcium intake and Cahos ratios (which are EQUALLY as important mind you). Edit - also a quote concerning Calcium supplements in large breed dogs.

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"As for actual amount - not specifically; however, there has been some really good work done by Hazewinkel (and several others) that calcium should be in the 1-2.5% (DM basis) range with a Ca of around 1.2:1.

Joe Bartges, DVM, PhD, DACVIM, DACVN
The University of Tennessee "

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"The current AAFCO allowances for calcium in puppies is 2.9 g/1000 kcal minimum and 7.1 g/1000 kcal maximum. Or on a dietary dry matter basis, Ca minimum is 1% and max is 2.5%. Supplementing a quality growth diet (not sure if Eagle qualifies) is a bad idea - the diets already have enough Ca in them and giving extra just puts the dog at risk at too much. And if the breeder or owner feels the diet is deficient in Ca for some reason, why use it?

Craig Datz, DVM, DABVP
University of Missouri-Columbia
College of Veterinary Medicine

Consultant, Infectious Disease/Immunology, Parasitology"


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