# Prescription diet?



## rwbmke (Jul 26, 2007)

Hi all,

I was told by my vet today that he found crystals in my dog urine sample and he wants her to go on HILL's Prescription Diet Canine c/d. I currently have her on Canidae and it looks like the Hill's is at least twice as expensive. Does anyone know of any foods that can help her in the same way the Hill's food can? Obviously I want her to be happy and healthy and if I have to spend the extra money on her food, I will. I was just wondering if anyone knew of an alternative.

Thanks a lot!


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## reverend_maynard (Aug 4, 2007)

I don't know if there are other foods formulated for bladder health, but for your sake, and the dog's, of course, I hope so. To pay that kind of money for a dog food that contains almost no meat? I'd be pissed.

Here's some info...
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Dog-Food-Canine-3799/Post-bladder-stone-surgery.htm

I would much prefer to use a supplement that raises urinary ph, then change to that crappy food. I don't know if there are any, but I'd look real hard to avoid feeding that food.


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## rwbmke (Jul 26, 2007)

Thanks for the info. After doing some research it does seem like it's a pretty bad food with all the fillers in it. Does anyone know of any supplements I could give my dog instead of this low quality food? Thanks a lot for any help you can give me.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

I do not know of any alternatives. Prescription diets are just that. 

Your vet prescribed this diet b/c your dog has a serious medical problem. It would be in the best interests of your dog to feed the prescription diet to help eliminate the crystals. Evidently the food you are feeding is causing the problem. Here’s a couple of links on “Prescription Diets” and why they are necessary. 

You will have to cut and paste the following link.
http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=
845524441760634

If the link doesn't work here's what it has to say...
c/d® Canine
For the Nutritional Management of Dogs with Urinary Tract Disease Associated with Struvite 

Urinary tract disease is associated with the build-up of crystals and stones in the urinary tract that can cause painful and bloody urination and potential blockage in your dog. One type of crystal that forms in a dog’s urinary tract is called struvite. Prescription Diet® c/d® dog food is formulated specifically to provide nutritional management of dogs with struvite-related urinary tract disease. Prescription Diet® c/d® has reduced levels of magnesium and phosphorus, and also produces an acid urine pH to aid in the management of struvite crystals and stones. The nutritional formulation of Prescription Diet® c/d® may also be useful for pets with a variety of conditions. 


http://www.prescriptiondiets.com/


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## Wyattnipper (Jun 9, 2008)

Did you find an alternative? My dog has been on the c/d diet for more than 2 years now and is doing well.(for a 15 year old dog) He is only 16lbs so the cost of the c/d diet is not much of an issue but if there is somethink cheaper i would like to know about it. My other dog is on a Duck and potatoe diet because he is allergic to EVERYTHING! including COTTON. He is over 50lbs so his food can get pretty expensive at $50 a bag.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

My vet said my dog had to be on prescription food for the rest of his life when they found crystals in a random urine sample when he was sick with Lyme disease. So, I did some internet research and chatted with some DF members and got a second opinion from another vet. The second opinion said there is no need to do anything about the crystals. He did encourage me to get my dog to drink more. My dog had no symptoms of any urinary tract disease. There are numerous reasons crystals can show up in the urine, including faulty handling of a urine sample. 

Below are some links that other members gave. You might find them useful. Good luck, I did not want to feed that crap food to my dog either. 


http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/bladder-stones-crystals/

http://www.wysong.net/PDFs/struvatrol.pdf


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## Sh0e (Sep 25, 2008)

Any word on this thread? My 5-year old was diagnosed with urinary tract blockage (as a result of struvites), and my vet prescribed an EXCLUSIVE diet of Hill's C/D. Frankly, this was a big turn-off, as I am not a fan of commercial pet food.

Having said that, I do use it. I buy the "Ultra-Premium" brands, and alternate it with a packaged raw diet. He tried to sell me on the premise that dogs do not need a varied diet to be healthy & happy. I didn't press or argue the point; just nodded.

But to say that some pet food corporation is the only way to feed a dog... when the dog _doesn't like the food in question_... (imagine eating ONE food you disliked, the rest of your life) I'm sorry, that's cruel and unnecessary.

I would like some word on what alternative I can use, as much as the thread starter.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

The prescription diets are prescribed for a specific problem, there is no alternative. Good luck in whatever you decide to feed.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Our situation is totally different but I can say that we avoided prescription food for 2 years trying to find a premium food that would work with our dog. Nothing worked. So she's been on Hill's z/d for 3-4 months and she's finally better (knock on wood!). For the first time in her life, she doesn't have runny, bloody poop, isn't throwing up and refusing to eat, and generally is the high-energy pup we love all the time who gobbles down her food every night. I wouldn't dismiss prescription diets just because some people think they're not good quality (are these people veterinary nutritionists? have they spent years and millions of dollars to research canine nutrition?). I would argue that any food that works is a good food. I'm not of the opinion that prescription foods are made by greedy corporations looking to make $ off of poor Fido and his parents -- that's rubbish. Prescription diets are around because they work. Period. It's worth trying with your dog. If it works, great. If it doesn't, move on to something else. But plse don't dismiss prescription food because of anything anyone says on a dog forum -- only you can make the decision and it may just be a good one, as it was in our case.


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## Sh0e (Sep 25, 2008)

MegaMuttMom said:


> The second opinion said there is no need to do anything about the crystals. He did encourage me to get my dog to drink more. My dog had no symptoms of any urinary tract disease.


Hi MegaMuttMom,
The links you included were helpful (and I'm planning on PM'ing you). And everybody else, thanks. I highlighted the above part of your post; you mention the second opinion saying there is no need to do anything about the crystals.

In my case, my dog apparently has struvite (crystals?) in her tract, which causes straining/bleeding when peeing. The vet kinda explained the plan of attack (i.e. the Hill's C/D would help to clear up the struvite problem, prescribed with antiobiotics + pain meds--but nothing specifically to eliminate the crystals).

I'd just like to hear more about it. It's sad, but I'm not sure I'll get unbiased views from this vet (believe me, I'm not planning on staying with them... it's just that since they had the history, I thought it'd be best to stay with them _on this problem_.)

Thanks.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

winniec777 said:


> Our situation is totally different but I can say that we avoided prescription food for 2 years trying to find a premium food that would work with our dog. Nothing worked. So she's been on Hill's z/d for 3-4 months and she's finally better (knock on wood!). For the first time in her life, she doesn't have runny, bloody poop, isn't throwing up and refusing to eat, and generally is the high-energy pup we love all the time who gobbles down her food every night. I wouldn't dismiss prescription diets just because some people think they're not good quality (are these people veterinary nutritionists? have they spent years and millions of dollars to research canine nutrition?). I would argue that any food that works is a good food. I'm not of the opinion that prescription foods are made by greedy corporations looking to make $ off of poor Fido and his parents -- that's rubbish. Prescription diets are around because they work. Period. It's worth trying with your dog. If it works, great. If it doesn't, move on to something else. But plse don't dismiss prescription food because of anything anyone says on a dog forum -- only you can make the decision and it may just be a good one, as it was in our case.


Excellent post, thank you.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

Sh0e said:


> Hi MegaMuttMom,
> The links you included were helpful (and I'm planning on PM'ing you). And everybody else, thanks. I highlighted the above part of your post; you mention the second opinion saying there is no need to do anything about the crystals.
> 
> In my case, my dog apparently has struvite (crystals?) in her tract, which causes straining/bleeding when peeing. The vet kinda explained the plan of attack (i.e. the Hill's C/D would help to clear up the struvite problem, prescribed with antiobiotics + pain meds--but nothing specifically to eliminate the crystals).
> ...


My dog had no urinary symptoms at all and the crystals were discovered in his urine by chance when he was sick with Lyme disease. The crystals could have been caused by his body being out of whack from the Lyme disease. 

My second opinion vet did not find any crystals when Cherokee's urine was tested by him. So, Cherokee's body must have taken care of them. So, my situation was different than yours and I am not sure what I would have done in your situation. 

Theoretically the prescription diet clears up the struvites. If the crystals are caused by an infection, the antibiotics would also take care of them. When the infection is gone, the crystals may be too, and no need for the prescription diet. If I were going to try a new food I would check out the one I linked in my first post.


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## Sh0e (Sep 25, 2008)

winniec777 said:


> Our situation is totally different but I can say that we avoided prescription food for 2 years trying to find a premium food that would work with our dog. Nothing worked. So she's been on Hill's z/d for 3-4 months and she's finally better (knock on wood!). For the first time in her life, she doesn't have runny, bloody poop, isn't throwing up and refusing to eat, and generally is the high-energy pup we love all the time who gobbles down her food every night. I wouldn't dismiss prescription diets just because some people think they're not good quality (are these people veterinary nutritionists? have they spent years and millions of dollars to research canine nutrition?). I would argue that any food that works is a good food. I'm not of the opinion that prescription foods are made by greedy corporations looking to make $ off of poor Fido and his parents -- that's rubbish. Prescription diets are around because they work. Period. It's worth trying with your dog. If it works, great. If it doesn't, move on to something else. But plse don't dismiss prescription food because of anything anyone says on a dog forum -- only you can make the decision and it may just be a good one, as it was in our case.


I appreciate what you are saying winniec... and I agree, to a point.
If it works, it works as you say. And in the immediate term, I will adhere to the vet's prescription. However, I have to believe that there are alternatives. My first priority is her health, of course. But also, _she doesn't like the diet_. I mean, that's significant. No one should have to eat something they dislike every meal of every day in the rest of their life. I mean, dogs in the wild don't eat just cuz... I'm pretty sure they like to eat (rabbit, or deer, or whatever they eat). That seems ludicrous to me, especially since, other than this condition, she's totally healthy and spry. 

On a personal note, I am in the camp that processed dog food of any kind, while having inherent positives (i.e. meeting deemed nutritional profiles) ALSO _possibly_ bring inherent negatives (i.e. daily intake of the effects of processing--preservatives, additives, etc.) In other words, while it may help correct a problem such as struvites in urine, who's to say it won't create other problems. 

Of course, I can't say that IT WILL; but I don't think anyone can convince me that it doesn't (I REFUSE, AT ALL COSTS, TO HAVE TO EUTHANIZE MY DOG ON ACCOUNT OF SOME DEBILITATING CONDITION.) I feel as though things such as cancer, which is SO prevalent (think of how many pets you know who've met such a fate), that the biggest apparent theme seems to be nutrition (commercial based diet).

As for this situation, when I questioned my vet as to alternatives, he simply told me that there is none. Huh?! The Hill's *corporation* is the only one capable of preparing an effective diet? He didn't say mention use of cranberry extract (I've read some literature on it's use), additives, alternative measures, things to avoid, holistic, etc. Only Hill's C/D. Does that make sense?

Like I said, I will use it, as I want my dog to clear her condition. But I will also look for alternatives. I'm all about my dog's happiness _coupled _with her health. I want her to live 20+ years: a long, healthy, happy life. I think us (pet owners) all wish for a similar thing. Do vets? I'm sure most do on a personal level... but I'm sure they also want business too. (This is my 4th visit for this condition: the cost? $1,200.00+) And cancer, kidney failure, pancreas, liver, skin: these would likely make good business for them down the road.


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## Karen G (Sep 26, 2008)

rwbmke said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was told by my vet today that he found crystals in my dog urine sample and he wants her to go on HILL's Prescription Diet Canine c/d. I currently have her on Canidae and it looks like the Hill's is at least twice as expensive. Does anyone know of any foods that can help her in the same way the Hill's food can? Obviously I want her to be happy and healthy and if I have to spend the extra money on her food, I will. I was just wondering if anyone knew of an alternative.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


I had the same problem and let the vet help because c/d is a less intense solution if caught quick enough otherwise you can have worse problems. the "Vet Hill's selection" is made for those specific problems and it's not forever (i hope) just enough to get rid of the crystals. Just remember those foods are not the grocery store specials and they do have a purpose. Getting rid of the crystals (and finding out what caused them) will let you get back to the diet you want your dog on. One thing I have noticed is that Canidae was your food and I recently have had problems also. Not the same problem but I have some reserves with Canidae at this time. I have an email with them I don't like.


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## FLaCo (Sep 16, 2008)

I had to buy two cans from my vet the other day. It was the Prescription Diet a/d. I did notice the ingredients are placed in a different order than the Science diet you find at your local pet store. First ingredients were mostly meat and not fillers.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Sh0e said:


> I appreciate what you are saying winniec... and I agree, to a point.
> If it works, it works as you say. And in the immediate term, I will adhere to the vet's prescription. However, I have to believe that there are alternatives. My first priority is her health, of course. But also, _she doesn't like the diet_. I mean, that's significant. No one should have to eat something they dislike every meal of every day in the rest of their life. I mean, dogs in the wild don't eat just cuz... I'm pretty sure they like to eat (rabbit, or deer, or whatever they eat). That seems ludicrous to me, especially since, other than this condition, she's totally healthy and spry.
> 
> On a personal note, I am in the camp that processed dog food of any kind, while having inherent positives (i.e. meeting deemed nutritional profiles) ALSO _possibly_ bring inherent negatives (i.e. daily intake of the effects of processing--preservatives, additives, etc.) In other words, while it may help correct a problem such as struvites in urine, who's to say it won't create other problems.
> ...


I know nothing about any of this and worry about long term implications, too. Until the whole melamine (sp?) scare, I bet a lot of folks never thought about what they were feeding their pets. The best we can do is keep searching for better answers. I'm so sorry about the trouble you're having. We've had so many vet visits and sleepless nights and days off work that I'm just over the moon that things seem to be clearing up. I wish you the same luck.


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

I think the point here is that crystals in the urine is often caused by something in the diet, and the perscription diet does not contain the elements that form crystals. 

Having had to deal with some serious conditions that have lead us to meet some very good vets, and having family friends who are vets, it always burns me to hear people who don't trust their vets because they think they are just keeping their dog sick to make money off of them. If you don't trust your vet, find another one. Crystals in the urine is serious, and painful, and it can have serious complications. Find a vet you trust and take their advice! They have years of training and specialization so that they can help you with things like this. All the vets I know love dogs, and have dogs of their own, and would never hurt a dog just to make money. If you even think that I don't know how you could set foot in their office!

One of the things we have had to deal with is our dalmation suffering from crystals in the urine. He was on hills UD for a long time, which kept the crystals under control but aggrivated his skin issues. Our new vet managed to get him onto another food, tested him regularly for crystals, and he continues to take medicine to alter the pH of his urine to prevent crystal formation. The vet knew alot about how crystals were formed, what sort of ingredients to look for, and he spent a lot of time digging through ingredient lists trying to get the best solution for both the urinary problems and the skin allergies. 

If you want to choose a different food than your vet then you may have to do regular urine tests to determine if crystals are forming, and modify your diet based on those results.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Here's a link with information about struvite stones,
http://www.2ndchance.info/struvitestones.htm
Hope this helps. Ask your vet about Methagel if your dog won't eat the food. If you are feeding canned sometimes it helps to heat it a little.


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