# Breeding mother to son?



## TwoSweetBabies (Apr 28, 2008)

I just had a question regarding you guy's thoughts about breeders who practice breeding fathers to daughters or mothers to sons.
I'm not sure if this is called inbreeding or line breeding, but either way, I was just curious what y'all thought about it?
I am not a breeding, nor will I ever breed my dogs. I have 2 females anyway, haha.
I was just wondering what ya'll thought


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Generally I call it inbreeding and call linebreeding dogs with less relation but from the same bloodline or a less related ancestor. 

My thoughts on the breeder would depend on that breeder being responsible or not. I can't simply judge on the fact that they chose 1 type of breeding over another. 

I'd have to know the quality of their dogs, titles, health of the line and their dogs, reason for breeding these 2 together and for the inbreeding, their guarantee, how long they've been breeding, what they breed for, what they produced, their reputation, ect, ect. 

I have dogs from inbreeding which are great, I like one inbred female a lot better then her out crossed half sister. I've also seen dogs from inbreeding that were terrible, on the same note I've seen scatterbred dogs that were terrible as well. Many good dogs are line bred and some inbred simply because responsible breeders do these types of breeding to gain more consistency in their lines and keep producing better dogs. The out crossed dogs they produce are also very good and it is done to match traits from each line or lines.

Some byb inbreed out of convenience and it can be very bad if their dogs are carrying traits they don't know about. The same goes for some puppy mills they might not always know who the sire is and might have dogs with poor genetic health who inbreed and produce a bad litter.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Too many variables that go into such a decision, I know we SELDOM did it as my Mom felt it was too close.


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## blunder (Sep 2, 2008)

My first question in response to someone wanting to breed that close would be "why do you want to do that breeding?" "What are you trying to accomplish by it?" Without a specific reason the breeding would be idiotic. Way to many problems that *can* arise.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

It would be called Inbreeding by anyone's standards. Typically speaking Father-daughter, Mother-son, and brother-sister are considered inbreeding. Anything futher than that is normally considered line breeding; But it is a fit fuzzy if your talking half siblings or grand parents-grand children, and some may consider those inbreeding while others may not. And outbreeding or outcrossing is where there's no relation between the 2 dogs.

I wouldn't rule out a breeder solely for inbreeding, but I would certainly scrutinize a breeder alot more about it. I would want to know why they did that breeding, what they were looking to achieve, what sort of research they did before the breeding, ect. IMO a breeder who does such breeding should be able to tell me all of the health results of every dog in the pedigree at least to the 3rd generation, preferably to the 5th. They should know the strengths and weaknesses of every dog in the pedigree. What health issues the dogs suffered from and what they passed from. 

Inbreeding will soldify both the good and bad traits. Any breeder doing it should know exactly what they are doing before they even consider it.


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## TwoSweetBabies (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks for the honest replies!
I was worried people would think I was wanting to inbreed my dogs or something and flame me about it. Thanks for understanding!
The reason I ask this, is because one of my precious babies parents were mother/son. She is perfectly healthy, and the "breeders" were actually my inlaws, whos dogs accidentely "hooked up". 
I do not condone this, but there is very little I can do to change their ways, especially being that they are my inlaws .
Luckily, all puppies have grown up to be healthy adults, and their parents continue to be perfectly healthy, for which I am very thankful.


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## B-Line (Feb 1, 2008)

I call it dueling banjos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyKvD-4IxOY

In all seriousness though, I know nothing about breeding. But how could I neglect to use an opportunity to link Dueling Banjos?


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## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

TwoSweetBabies said:


> Thanks for the honest replies!
> I was worried people would think I was wanting to inbreed my dogs or something and flame me about it. Thanks for understanding!
> The reason I ask this, is because one of my precious babies parents were mother/son. She is perfectly healthy, and the "breeders" were actually my inlaws, whos dogs accidentely "hooked up".
> I do not condone this, but there is very little I can do to change their ways, especially being that they are my inlaws .
> Luckily, all puppies have grown up to be healthy adults, and their parents continue to be perfectly healthy, for which I am very thankful.


Byb, accidental litters, ect that are inbred won't always produce bad. The people could get lucky if the parents had good genes. Its really just a toss up. 

If your dogs are happy, healthy, ect then its all good. 

One of my favorites his dam is from a son/mother breeding. 

Like animalcracker said people have their different opinions on definitions. I personally consider sibling, half sibling, grandparent/grandchild inbreeding as it is still pretty close. Cousins maybe not, especially if they are not even full cousins, say their sires were half brothers or 2nd, 3rd cousins the COI becomes less and less.


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## Donovan (Aug 24, 2007)

Spicy1_VV said:


> I have dogs from inbreeding which are great, I like one inbred female a lot better then her out crossed half sister. I've also seen dogs from inbreeding that were terrible, on the same note I've seen scatterbred dogs that were terrible as well. Many good dogs are line bred and some inbred simply because responsible breeders do these types of breeding to gain more consistency in their lines and keep producing better dogs. The out crossed dogs they produce are also very good and it is done to match traits from each line or lines.


My thoughts exactly...


And TwoSweet, if you're curious about inbreeding/linebreeding, here is a great article for those that want a basic understanding. It is written by Llyod Brackett, who was a well respceted breeder of many great GSD's.



B-Line said:


> I call it dueling banjos:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyKvD-4IxOY
> 
> In all seriousness though, I know nothing about breeding. But how could I neglect to use an opportunity to link Dueling Banjos?



I love dueling banjos...favorite song, actually. Reminds me of home (LOL)


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

If the breeder did it often, I probably would be very critical of them. If it was a very occasional thing because they happened to be the best match for each other, or they were trying to fix a trait or something I would probably be ok with it, I guess it would depend on why they were doing it and how inbred their dogs already are. I would prefer to not see such a close breeding, but I wouldn't rule out a dog from such a breeding (or a breeder who did it on occasion for good reason).


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## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

This is definitely a form of inbreeding, as others have mentioned, but it will only cause a problem if there are already recessives lurking in the genepool. One of the best overall crosses I've made was a son back to his dam - the first pups are 2yrs old with no health issues & the second litter is 4 months old. The pup in my siggy is the girl we kept back from that second cross. Both litters were my favorites in regards to temperament, hardiness, innate desire and overall conformation. They were actually healthier and more vigorous at birth than my other litters! We often think that inbreeding only brings out the negatives, but it is also helpful in locking in the most positive attributes of the bloodline.

That being said, the dog and bitch I bred together are probably the only ones I have at the moment that I'd consider "safe" to inbreed.


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