# "Show Weight" ?



## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

There is an Afghan Hound I've seen a few times at the park. She is absolutely gorgeous, but when she came up to say hi to me and I pet her... SKIN AND BONES. I had no idea from all her fur and I was shocked. I don't know all that much about the breed but I seem to remember reading that they have relatively high-set hips, and typically you can see the bone. Ok, that's fine, I'm not freaking out about being able to see a bit of boniness. I'm freaking out because I can easily lay my finger flat between her ribs. I casually started talking to the owner and he said she's a former show dog, and they are supposed to be that skinny.  He called it "show weight". I'm sorry, but I really don't think "emaciated" is in the breed standard. I could feel every bone in her body, clearly see her hips, and see every single vertebrae on her spine. She was fairly active and didn't seem lacking for energy, but it still upset me. From what I just looked up, Afghans are typically 50-60 lbs. This one couldn't have been more than my own dog who is 40. Even if they did keep her extremely skinny to get better action and lightness in the ring or whatever, she's not a show dog anymore.

Is there really a "show weight" for certain breeds? That seems completely ridiculous to me.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

That's pretty normal for Affies IME. In fact, I don't think I've EVER seen a fat one (that includes pets).

There are many in very good condition and weight, but due to their structure, they look like Skeletons. Same for Salukis and Greyhounds. If it weren't for all the coat, Zoi would appear that way too.

And there is indeed "show weight" for certain breeds (especially those who have weight DQ's). Cardigan Welsh Corgwyn are often quite chunky in show weight, and then are slimmer when their careers are over with.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Xeph said:


> That's pretty normal for Affies IME. In fact, I don't think I've EVER seen a fat one (that includes pets).
> 
> There are many in very good condition and weight, but due to their structure, they look like Skeletons. Same for Salukis and Greyhounds. If it weren't for all the coat, Zoi would appear that way too.
> 
> And there is indeed "show weight" for certain breeds (especially those who have weight DQ's). *Cardigan Welsh Corgwyn* are often quite chunky in show weight, and then are slimmer when their careers are over with.


Is that a typo or is that the real plural for Corgi? I've been adding an "es" after the word for years. 
I've known show labs that immediately go on a diet to lose 20 pounds (+-) as soon as they finish.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Most breeds have either a weight range or a statement that says "Weight should be in proportion to hieght" There are no standards that say a dog should be fat or emaciated. I like to easily feel the ribs on a dog AND have that same dog be heavily muscled to me that is ideal and that is the wieght I keep Hawkeye at. Did you feel the Affie's thieghs to feel for muscle mass?

However that doesn't mean that unethical judges and owners don't show and put up fat and emaciated dogs sometimes. Labradors come to mind, I swear a part of me just wants to buy a really nice typey show line Labrador and show it in working weight just to make a point.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

That's the plural for Corgi, LazyG. 

I knew someone who had a CWC and would not compete with the dog in agility while the dog was at "show weight." I acknowledge that agility dogs usually ARE kept slimmer than pet/show dogs, but she wouldn't even train or practice in agility. IMHO that just doesn't make sense. A CWC is supposed to be agile and athletic.

I'm with you, Keechak (BTW did you ever get my Facebook invite? lol), same goes for labs.. there are just too many show labs that look morbidly obese.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yes indeedy, LazyG! Cardis are, of course, Welsh, and the Welsh plural for Corgi is Corgwyn! However, this is America and most people just say Corgis 

It's just like with the Hungarian breeds. We Americans want the plural to be an S (Komondors, Vizslas, Kuvasz') but the proper plurals are Komondorok, Vizslak, and Kuvaszok.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

perhaps I did I have three friend requests that are just sitting there untill I figure out who they are lol, so which one is you?


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Oh, I didn't include my username? Sorry x.x

I'm Samantha S


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

MissMutt said:


> I knew someone who had a CWC and would not compete with the dog in agility while the dog was at "show weight." I acknowledge that agility dogs usually ARE kept slimmer than pet/show dogs, but she wouldn't even train or practice in agility. IMHO that just doesn't make sense. A CWC is supposed to be agile and athletic.


Guess it could be worse... I know people those heavy-boned Labs + in "show weight" who still do agility. So not only is their dog intentionally somewhat overweight, but they add the stress of jumping and weaves and tight turns and...

But yeah doesn't make sense to me either.



That said, regarding the OP, a lot of sighthound have very thin skin so it's deceptively easy to see/feel their bones. But yeah, that sounds awfully extreme...


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

I didn't feel her thighs, no. Part of me thought I was over reacting as typically they are thinner and I've never actually had my hands on one before then. She did seem active and didn't behave like she was starving.

I see so many fat labs, but I've heard it said they could live on air and still be fat


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

A lot of sighthounds are hard keepers - they don't tend to put on a ton of weight even when they are not being kept intentionally thin. I'll always be more upset over obese dogs than ones that may be a little too thin.


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## Miranda16 (Jan 17, 2010)

Keechak said:


> perhaps I did I have three friend requests that are just sitting there untill I figure out who they are lol, so which one is you?


(I'm the Miranda request)


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> A lot of sighthounds are hard keepers


Understatement. x.x


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I think what you describe is pretty much normal for a Afghan or Saluki. I'll use a Saluki pic as an example because you can't see anything in pics with regards to Afghans because of all the hair.

This is absolutely normal for a Saluki. If you were feeling the dog your fingers can probably fit between the ribs as well since they are very big ribs. 










Did the dog you saw look a lot skinnier than this dog?


Some dogs have heavier show weights, some have slightly lower show weights. I know I can't stand show weight labs and pugs, to me they're just fat. I much prefer a more toned, thin dog than a fat one.


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

Okay, that Saluki above has a little more cover than I would like to take into the show ring, honestly.

One has to remember that sighthounds are athletes, first and foremost. To maintain good condition, and develop proper bone, they need to MOVE a lot! Lots of running, lots of roadwork to stay in good show condition. And that does not even get started on if the dog is a courser!

Yes, many sighthounds can be difficult keepers. I have one. But most will inhale any amount of food you put in front of them, and beg for more. They are champion chow hounds!

My almost 11 year old Greyhound still eats about 4 cups of high quality kibble daily. She is still that active, and still shows ribs. To be in proper weight, sighthounds SHOULD show ribs - any heavier, and they run the risk of losing speed. And, when a sighthound's speed is what kept food on the table back when these breeds originated, speed was essential. Thus, they were developed to carry little, if any, body fat.

These days, the biggest concern is with health. An overweight sighthound is at risk for arthritis, heart problems, breathing problems, and the like, much like overweight humans. 

Regarding thin skin in sighthounds... not gonna happen in the coated breeds. They need a thicker skin to support that coat. In greyhounds and Whippets, though, YES - what is a small scratch for most other breeds can develop into a nasty tear! It doesn't help, though, that their skin is usually very close-fitting, too.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Sighthounds4me said:


> Regarding thin skin in sighthounds... not gonna happen in the coated breeds. They need a thicker skin to support that coat. In greyhounds and Whippets, though, YES - what is a small scratch for most other breeds can develop into a nasty tear! It doesn't help, though, that their skin is usually very close-fitting, too.


Thanks for correcting me on that. The sighthounds I see and am around frequently are whippets and borzoi (and Italian greyhounds, if that counts for anything). Whippets and IG seem to have paper-thin skin...the borzoi could all have just about anything under all that fur and I wouldn't be able to tell the different. Used to know some Irish wolfhounds but those seem to be a different kettle of fish anyway.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

From the AKC standard:


> Body
> The back line appearing practically level from the shoulders to the loin. Strong and powerful loin and slightly arched, falling away toward the stern, with the hipbones very pronounced; well ribbed and tucked up in flanks. The height at the shoulders equals the distance from the chest to the buttocks; the brisket well let down, and of medium width. Faults--Roach back, swayback, goose rump, slack loin; lack of prominence of hipbones; too much width of brisket, causing interference with elbows.


What your describing sounds prety normal for an Afghan. Due to the angle and shape of their hips, their hip bones should be well pronounced, If you don't easily see them then you have a fat or unsound Afghan. The most universal assesment for correct afghan weight is to look at the vertebrae. You should be able to just see the 3 vertebrae above the loin; If you don't see them then there's too much fat, and if you see much more than those 3 then the dog is too skinny or has a horible topline. Afghans, and most sighthounds, have large chests. It's nearly impossible to put fat over the ribcage, even in the standard it states they should be well ribbed. Here's a photo of my girl from a few months ago. It might be a bit hard to see due to the dark backgournd, but you can see her pronounced hip bones and the vertebrae over her loin. Underneath that coat you can feel a huge chest with prominet ribs and thick thighs.


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

You'd definitely be complaining about Harleigh then! But, don't worry, I get that comment EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

Harleigh is very skinny... can pretty much see her ribs, spine and hips (& you could feel her spine even when she was a bit heavier). Mostly its because SO many people see obese Labs and think that I starve Harleigh 



> they don't tend to put on a ton of weight even when they are not being kept intentionally thin.


This is another reason why I'm wondering if Harleigh has some sort of sighthound in her. Hmmm


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## TonyBaby (Aug 24, 2007)

I agree some of the breeds look fat to me. I stumbled upon a show quality lab breeder's website the other day and they looked like weird colored Rotts with tails. Way too blocky and chunky for what I consider a Lab. Although, I think what the AKC wants for Rottie weight in the ring is a little absurd too. They were originally work dogs and should be fit and muscular. My dog can make it 3 laps around the 3/4 mi track when I condition my barrel horse and he loves every second of it. I hate for him to get discounted in the ring for not being heavy enough. I refuse to feed him gobs of food he doesn't need. He'd probably burn it all off anyway.


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## NeedleNoseLuvR (Sep 19, 2007)

I have a t-shirt with a head study of a golden saluki. It says 'It's a Saluki...Yes, it's fast...No, it's not hungry'. I need to get one with a greyhound on it. 

Sighthounds are the canine equivalent of human track athletes. Just like human track athletes they don't carry body fat.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Question....do the sighthounds have trouble coming in to season due to the lack of body fat?


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

NeedleNoseLuvR said:


> I have a t-shirt with a head study of a golden saluki. It says 'It's a Saluki...Yes, it's fast...No, it's not hungry'. I need to get one with a greyhound on it.


That's AWESOME!

The funny thing is, I rarely get the questions like that with the Greyhound. Once in a while I do, but not often. And she is at a weight where most people would comment. She shows a couple ribs. Although, now that she's older, and has lost a lot of stamina, we don't take her out much any more. And we have let her gain a couple extra pounds. Not excessive, and I can still see a hint of a coupl ribs, but enough that is she gets ill, she has an extra day or two of fat to absorb.



Xeph said:


> Question....do the sighthounds have trouble coming in to season due to the lack of body fat?


Not that I am aware of. I know many larger sighthounds come in the first time a lot later than other breeds. But that has more to do with slow maturation. I suspect that would be similar to other giant breeds like Danes or Saints, who have a "normal" amount of body fat.

I have never known of a breeder whose bitch had trouble coming in. Most of them are very regular. The only bitch I know of that is a little different is that of a breeder in Indiana. She has a season once a year, like clockwork. It may seem unusual, but is normal for her.

The only "problem" I know of is in racing Greyhounds. Bitches are given synthetic hormones to supress their cycles, so they are not accidentally bred on the track. Sometimes, they then are delayed when they go to the breeding farm. It's very similar to the birth control pill in humans.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> The funny thing is, I rarely get the questions like that with the Greyhound.


Somebody once asked me if Mirada was a rescue because she was "So thin". Now I've got people telling me the waif needs to LOSE weight (she most certainly does NOT!).


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Somebody once asked me if Mirada was a rescue because she was "So thin". Now I've got people telling me the waif needs to LOSE weight (she most certainly does NOT!).


I've gotten both sides, too. Cooper has a tendancy to get a little portly if we don't watch it too. Yet to so many people, he is skinny. If a sighthound person saw him, they'd tell us to get weight off him (which is usually more accurate!).

When Manero was young and still maturing, he was a rail. I would get asked all the time why he was so skinny. I usually described him as a teenage boy. All his calories are used growing and maturing. He filled out eventually, and has become quite the man!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Oh dearest Nero <3 I've seen Portly Cooper. He can get a bit chunky. But I wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuvs him!


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## Sighthounds4me (Nov 7, 2010)

Oh, I ADORE the little sh*t! LOL He's dumb as a box of rocks, but the sweetest, cutest, most loving Borzoi I've ever met! I would never trade him for anything!


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