# How Much?



## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

So I found out today that I was overfeeding my dog, yikes!! So today I'm reducing it so he can get used to it. But I was wondering, my neighbor's PB has only one cup of food twice a day. I looked on the bag of food we get for Luke and it says to give him one cup. It's right for his weight and exercise requirements.

But if my neighbor's PB is getting one cup and he's much bigger than Luke, is one cup safe to give my buddy? Thanks all.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Don't feed your dog according to the directions on the bag; feed your dog according to your dog's body condition. If he's too heavy, cut back. If he's too thin, add more. Paying too much attention to the guidelines would get one three obese dogs and a walking skeleton.

That said, the PB is getting 1 cup twice a day. That's 2 cups.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Luke is 3lbs overweight. So for a Coton, what do you think I should be feeding him if I can't follow the bag's guidelines? 
Yes it is 2 cups, but if I feed Luke one cup twice a day too, I'm also giving him the same amount as a full grown PB. That's why I'm a bit skeptical about what to feed him.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Hamilton is between 19 and 20 lbs. He gets 1/4 cup of kibbles twice a day, with some wet food at dinner time for Kong glue, and he gets treats a bit throughout the day. I go less on the kibble knowing he hoovers up the kitchen and gets treats throughout the day. He doesn't act starving.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> Luke is 3lbs overweight. So for a Coton, what do you think I should be feeding him if I can't follow the bag's guidelines?
> Yes it is 2 cups, but if I feed Luke one cup twice a day too, I'm also giving him the same amount as a full grown PB. That's why I'm a bit skeptical about what to feed him.


Breed won't really tell you much, either, sadly. You're just going to have to cut back a little and see how it goes, and keep doing that until he hits a weight you like, and then keep feeding him that. Dogs vary, a lot, based on their metabolism and activity levels even within a breed. My 25lb dog eats a cup of food a day. My (should be) 18ish lb dog and 12lb dog 1/3 that much, plus a bit of canned. The 50lb puppy eats 4-6X as much, and is twice the weight, so. Really it just is going to be a matter of messing around with it until you figure it out.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Okay thanks. Our vet said not to use wet food because it could increase a dog's weight so we stay away from it. I guess that's why he wasn't loosing any weight even though we were exercising him, I was overfeeding him. Bad me.  

Hambonez--that what Luke is now (21lbs) and he's supposed to be around 18lbs.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Wow! That's a lot of food you're giving him then! Weight gain is calories in/calories out. It takes me about a week to get through a can of dog food, and it's factored into his caloric intake for the day. I could see if you were using wet food in addition to ample kibble calories it would be a problem, but canned food is generally lower calorie by volume than dry food because of its water content. In cats, they recommend all wet food to lose weight because it's lower carbs and higher volume than dry!


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

I thought Cotons were more in the 8-13lb range. Anyways, you will know you are feeding the right amount if you can easily feel but not see his ribs. He should have a visible waist from above and a tucked tummy. Every dog is different as to the amount of food they need. The quality of food will make a difference too.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Hambonez--I know that's why I felt so bad when I saw I was feeding Luke the wrong amount. You would think I would realize I was doing something wrong since he wasn't loosing weight. But now I know, so phew! 

Gally--when I first read them they said 18lbs was okay. Now that I check back I see what you're seeing, so yikes if that's true! Right now he's eating NutroMax. I'd love to have him on Blue, but it's too expensive.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If the bag says 1 cup, that usually means per day, not per meal. . .

How much were you feeding him before?


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I know I feed my 14 pound Eddee 1 cup per day ... but he is super active. Leah Lu weighs the same as Eddee ... and gets 3/4 cup per day and still growing. Now the 20 pound Blu Boy gets 3/4 cup per day because he is not as active. Abbylynn who is 65 pounds only gets 2 cups per day ... and she is on a diet.

Depending on the caloric intake of the food you are feeding is what I would go by for Luke's proper weight. You may even be able to cut back to 1/2 cup a day. If he still seems hungry you can fill that with some cooked carrots if he likes them or green beans to make him feel full. I do this with good results.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

Katie is about 40lbs and moderately active; she eats about 870 calories per day of kibble plus treats (if she's having an especially treat-heavy day, I'll cut back on her food or mix treats and kibble).








This is a recent picture of her to give some sense of size. She actually looks heavier in the picture - in real life, her hip bones and spine are a little more noticeable. Her vet would like to see a few more pounds on her.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Hambonez said:


> Hamilton is between 19 and 20 lbs. He gets 1/4 cup of kibbles twice a day, with some wet food at dinner time for Kong glue, and he gets treats a bit throughout the day. I go less on the kibble knowing he hoovers up the kitchen and gets treats throughout the day. He doesn't act starving.


This is Jackson too. He's about 17lbs and gets 1/2 cup per day (1/4 am, 1/4 pm) as well as some wet food and treats. If he is super active, I will up it to 2/3 cup per day (like swimming all day, etc).


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## AkCrimson (Oct 12, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> This is Jackson too. He's about 17lbs and gets 1/2 cup per day


17lbs?! I never would have guessed from his pictures! He looks the same size as Bowser, who is only 8! 

I agree with others, you should go by feel and what you think is best for your pup, not strictly what any bag says


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Willowy said:


> If the bag says 1 cup, that usually means per day, not per meal. . .


This....

Snowball is ~30lbs and gets ~3/4 cup per day. Broken down into two 1/3 cup meals, plus an additional 1/3 cup goes into our walking pouch that lasts for 2-3 days worth of walks. He also gets a lot of "treats" (mostly a different kibble) when he goes to FI's mom's house, which is anywhere from 1-4 times a week.

It also depends on the food you're feeding... 1 cup of Pedigree is a lot different than 1 cup of Orijen...


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## DaisyDC (Feb 24, 2013)

Daisy is a hair over 20lbs, fairly active, and gets 1C a day--1/2 AM and 1/2 PM. I'm sure she'd eat two cups a day, but she'd be a porker. Just remember that dogs are poor moderators, they'll often just keep eating.

What is he eating now? That can make a difference, too. When we switched brands, we started feeding less, because there were 50kcal/cup more in the food.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Willowy--I would grab two good size fist fulls of food, so half the small bowl was filled. Now I'm cutting back slowly so he can get used to the change.

Abbylynn--I will try the green beans, thanks. I tried carrots one time and he didn't like them. I know he likes chicken and I was told that won't affect his weight, but we don't like to do that all the time.

cookieface--your dog looks good in that picture.

gingerkid and DaisyDC--it's NutroMax we're feeding him. I'd love to get him on Blue, but right now it's too expensive.


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

Once you cut him back to an appropriate portion size I suspect he will be eating about half of what he was before. A bag of food will last you twice as long. So even if a better quality food was twice as much as what you are paying now you would still be paying the same amount you were for dog food before you cut back his diet. Just something to keep in mind.


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## TRDmom (Mar 3, 2013)

the main thing to check is how many calories per cup the food has. a food with 200 calories per cup would have to be fed more than one with 400 calories per cup, for example. Different types of food have different amounts of calories per cup.

Check out Canidae. Its not the only good food out there, but it is a good choice. I feed the Chicken and Rice to my crew. Good quality, low price. I had my pup on Blue Wilderness, but it was too rich so he's back on Canidae.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

TRDmom said:


> the main thing to check is how many calories per cup the food has. a food with 200 calories per cup would have to be fed more than one with 400 calories per cup, for example. Different types of food have different amounts of calories per cup.
> 
> Check out Canidae. Its not the only good food out there, but it is a good choice. I feed the Chicken and Rice to my crew. Good quality, low price. I had my pup on Blue Wilderness, but it was too rich so he's back on Canidae.


I just recently spoke to my vet about Zoey's weight and she said go by her looks and not by calories because as was said every dog is different. Calories may be a good place to start but it is not the whole picture. Some of the dogs here are eating 1/2 cup of food. Orijen puppy food is about 480 Kcals per cup ... that would be only 240 calories a day for a dog if they were eating a food with that many calories per cup and they are thriving so there is something more than calories ... not sure what though.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I'd probably do half cup at breakfast and half cup at dinner. Limit treats and increase excersize. See how your pup does on that and if he begins to lose too much weight increase by a third of a cup at each meal and see what happens. 
I also agree with limiting wetfood because it does tend to add some pounds in my exp.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Some dogs only need 240 calories a day. Use the calories per cup when you switch foods for sure. With tiny amounts of food you might use a food scale and go by grams instead. When 15 pound Artie was here 90 grams was good, 95 grams was not when fed a powerful food like EVO.

Wet food is usually higher in meat content than dry. The companies seem to keep the calories in a can equivalent to a cup of kibble, it isn't higher in calories if you just substitute one for the other but check the type you buy.

Think about it. If you ate 1000 calories a day but it was all French toast. Some protein, quite a bit of fat but mostly carbs, like low protein kibble. What if the following day you ate 1000 calories but it was lean beef, lots of veggies and maybe a baked potato with yogurt, like those expensive kibbles. Not so many carbs, same amount of fat but more protein. You might feel better after the lean meat day than the french toast day. Our mouths can crave carbs but our systems crave protein and feel better with moderate amounts of fat. Carbs are used for energy but without protein to support the body energy is useless. I suspect that is why some of us notice dogs need fewer actual calories on high protein/high fat foods. 

OP, it took a year of hard work to take off the weight 6 months of overfeeding put on Max. I gave him lots of protein and less fat. Don't reduce the calories too much as the body can go into super efficient starvation mode and live off very little without losing weight. I was concerned about restricting protein, be sure to give him at least one gram of protein per pound of dog and more is better. A food that is 20% protein has 20 grams protein per 100 grams. Usually 100 grams is less than a cup of food so if he should weigh 10 pounds then 1/2 cup of a food with more than 20% protein would be okay but 30% protein would be even better.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Kathyy said:


> Some dogs only need 240 calories a day. Use the calories per cup when you switch foods for sure. With tiny amounts of food you might use a food scale and go by grams instead. When 15 pound Artie was here 90 grams was good, 95 grams was not when fed a powerful food like EVO.
> 
> Wet food is usually higher in meat content than dry. The companies seem to keep the calories in a can equivalent to a cup of kibble, it isn't higher in calories if you just substitute one for the other but check the type you buy.
> 
> ...


I understand the whole idea about the quality of the food your dog eats (and humans) is important. So if a dog's ideal weight is supposed to be 30 lbs and you feed it 1/2 the amount - are you saying that as long as you feed higher protein (higher quality) dog foods that the protein amount is all that matters along with the fat content? What about all the other nutrients other than fat and protein a dog should have? - you are 1/2 that as well.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

No, I am suggesting that could be the reason this is so for some dogs especially coming from foods with lesser protein sources like corn gluten. Sure the gluten is rich in protein but it is also rich in less digestible stuff. Dogs vary a great deal. Some dogs need more of a high quality food to maintain the condition the humans like. My dog might take that less digestible stuff and poop it out so I need to feed more and on the higher meat protein food needs less food as there isn't that wasted stuff, yours might put on weight with the corn gluten food and need more food to keep weight on without it.

Commercial foods are over supplemented as it is. I estimate Max would need 150 grams of Orijen for instance. He would get 3x the manganese, 8x the iron, 2x the zinc, ~1.8x the calcium, ~2x the phosphorus if he ate that much and I could go on. I didn't pick and choose those particular nutrients, they are ones I can remember his needs off hand. I could feed him 75 grams a day and he would be fine. I wouldn't, it isn't easy feeding that tiny amount of food to my best buddy and I have failed at doing so twice.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Dog Person said:


> I understand the whole idea about the quality of the food your dog eats (and humans) is important. So if a dog's ideal weight is supposed to be 30 lbs and you feed it 1/2 the amount - are you saying that as long as you feed higher protein (higher quality) dog foods that the protein amount is all that matters along with the fat content? What about all the other nutrients other than fat and protein a dog should have? - you are 1/2 that as well.


Recommended daily doses of nutrients/vitamins for people are all the same regardless of weight... (though there are differences in sex).

Not necessarily, it depends on how the food has been supplemented since most of the nutrients in dog food is actually added, and not just from the raw ingredients. Kibbles have to meet certain nutrient requirements based on their feeding requirements. Most of the time supplementation is on the higher end, as the requirements are minimum nutrient requirements, not maximums.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Sorry, I have a hard time grasping the notion that a higher quality kibble requires that much less food. I do know requirements are the same except for the sex difference in people but if you are supposed to eat 8 oz of something for the correct amount of nutrients and only eat 4 oz then you are not getting 100% of what you need which should hold true for animals as well. What I didn't know was that kibble was loaded with nutrients more than the minimum requirements so it makes sense that that part wouldn't be affected.

I understand that if you go to a food calculator and calculate out the amount of calories a puppy/dog needs and feed them what it says then you may be overfeeding. When Zoey was on Orijen it said she should be eating 2 1/4 cups of food and I fed her 2 because it was a better quality food, thinking to cut 1/4 cup. The store I bought Orijen from said that people with 80 lb dogs feed only 1 cup. That would mean Zoey should have only been fed 3/4 of a cup or less a day - I would imagine she would have been looking to eat anything she could get. I see many people suggest that when feeding their dogs high protein dog foods that they feed 50% of what they would normally feed. 

The difference in calories from Orijen to 4Health is about 130 per cup with 4Health being lower. If I wanted Zoey to lose weight I would cut her back 1/4 to 1/2 cup a day that would be 88 to 176 calories less per day less and she should lose weight.

Maybe the fact that Zoey doesn't eat all of her food at times explains it but she definitely on average eating more food than some of the people here feed their dogs.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Dog Person said:


> if you are supposed to eat 8 oz of something for the correct amount of nutrients and only eat 4 oz then you are not getting 100% of what you need which should hold true for animals as well..


Sort of. Pick up a bottle of medicine, sometime - or vitamins. The doses for most are for children 12 and over. Doesn't matter if you're a 70lb 12 year old, or a 320lb adult man, the dose is what it is. Same principal for dogs.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

CptJack said:


> Sort of. Pick up a bottle of medicine, sometime - or vitamins. The doses for most are for children 12 and over. Doesn't matter if you're a 70lb 12 year old, or a 320lb adult man, the dose is what it is. Same principal for dogs.


I have and most of the time it says take 1 or 2 so I equate that to smaller adult/child = 1; larger adult = 2. Then a Doctor will say well your a big person - take 3.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Dog Person said:


> I have and most of the time it says take 1 or 2 so I equate that to smaller adult/child = 1; larger adult = 2. Then a Doctor will say well your a big person - take 3.


Not my doctor! Not even CLOSE! He'll say 'you've got as big and developed a liver as you're going to get', however much you weigh, and it's what has to filter the medication. You take more, you risk damage. (I come from a family of doctors, nurses, and dentists - I hear this over every time I get take tylenol).

So... no. The dosage on the back of the bottle in front of me is 'kids 12 and under, take 1, over 12 and adults take 2.' every four hours for both. That's fairly standard.

Drug dosing and vitamin use isn't based on mass. It's based on how mature your system is, and if you are (or are not) developing a resistance to the effect of the drug. They just... don't work that way.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

CptJack said:


> Not my doctor! Not even CLOSE! He'll say 'you've got as big and developed a liver as you're going to get', however much you weigh, and it's what has to filter the medication. You take more, you risk damage. (I come from a family of doctors, nurses, and dentists - I hear this over every time I get take tylenol).
> 
> So... no. The dosage on the back of the bottle in front of me is 'kids 12 and under, take 1, over 12 and adults take 2.' every four hours for both. That's fairly standard.
> 
> Drug dosing and vitamin use isn't based on mass. It's based on how mature your system is, and if you are (or are not) developing a resistance to the effect of the drug. They just... don't work that way.


The packaging on a bottle of ibuprofen I have here says - 12 and over take one tablet, if pain or fever persists take 2. As you know there are different dosages of the various pain meds - Tylenol has lower amount then extra strength Tylenol. The quantity taken are usually 2 pills/tablets - what is the "correct" amount - 2 Tylenol or 2 extra strength Tylenol and are 2 extra strength Tylenols the same strength as 3 regular Tylenols . If you get a prescription medication, the Doctor may give you an even higher dose of what is "normal" and usually you're not being monitored for liver damage. If your living on any medication then it's a different story.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I calculate how I am doing using NRC's requirements. Max is 38 pounds and needs 1000mg of calcium a day. If I had a 100 pound dog it would need 2200mg and a 10 pound dog would need 400mg a day. Kibble companies put in enough minerals and vitamins so that 10 pound dog that eats 200 calories or less is getting at least 400mg and that 100 pound dog is getting at least 2200mg even if he only eats 1000 calories a day. I would rather not be putting my dog through that rough estimating and feed closer to his actual requirements.


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

Check the Kcal on the bag. Some foods with lower protein (4 Health grain free, TOTW Pacific Stream for ex.) only have around 375 kcal/cup, whereas a higher protein kibbles (Acana grain free, Wellness Simple, Orijen, etc.) have around 425, +/- Kcal/c. Just like human foods, kibble comes in a variety of calorie counts.

I feed my two small dogs (around 13 pounds each) 1/4 c. twice daily if the Kcal is 425. I feed my 60 lb. boxer 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 c. twice daily (adjusting by how he looks, exercise level etc.). I go by their condition and feel of their ribs than by any set in stone amount. You should be able to feel, but not see ribs. If you feel a lot of padding, cut back. You should also be able to see a well defined waist behind the rib cage. Healthy dogs are on the slim side; just like people.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Dog Person said:


> The packaging on a bottle of ibuprofen I have here says - 12 and over take one tablet, if pain or fever persists take 2. As you know there are different dosages of the various pain meds - Tylenol has lower amount then extra strength Tylenol. The quantity taken are usually 2 pills/tablets - what is the "correct" amount - 2 Tylenol or 2 extra strength Tylenol and are 2 extra strength Tylenols the same strength as 3 regular Tylenols . If you get a prescription medication, the Doctor may give you an even higher dose of what is "normal" and usually you're not being monitored for liver damage. If your living on any medication then it's a different story.


No one said dosing can't vary... but it's not done based specifically on mass. It's based on how effective a medication is for an individual. Does mass affect that? Maybe, but so do a thousand other factors, such as what kinds of things are in your blood stream, how much strain your liver is on, how effective your body is at utilizing those drugs.... So, No, drugs are almost never dosed based on weight.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> No one said dosing can't vary... but it's not done based specifically on mass. It's based on how effective a medication is for an individual. Does mass affect that? Maybe, but so do a thousand other factors, such as what kinds of things are in your blood stream, how much strain your liver is on, how effective your body is at utilizing those drugs.... So, No, drugs are almost never dosed based on weight.


Look at post 29, CptJack said 1 or 2 pills. I was pointing out that based on just Tylenol you can take 1, 2 or 3 pills - 2 Tylenol extra strength = 1000 mg; 3 Tylenol regular strength = 975 mg. CptJack stated her Doctor would never use more than the recommended dose after I had said that I have had a Doctor tell me take 3 instead of 2; I was stating that a Doctor may prescribe more than the "normal" dose at times. The ONLY time I mentioned weight I believe was to say about the amount of food for a certain size dog and once it was explained that commercial foods had way more nutrients than the minimum requirements I said I can see how giving less food wouldn't be harmful to a dog. But I still will think that a dog is on the prowl for whatever food it can get.

And yes some drugs are based on weight, maybe not OTC but certainly some hospital based drugs and I do realize we were speaking of OTC here - see here toward bottom: http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing...e-accurately-advice-for-nurses/199884.article

But it doesn't matter as we were talking about dog food.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

You'll notice I said drugs are _almost never_ based on weight - I'm actually pretty familiar with healthcare, thanks.

The issue is, not all dog foods have the same nutrients in them, however you appear to have suggested that 1000 calories of a food has the same nutrients regardless of the food, which just doesn't make sense.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> The issue is, not all dog foods have the same nutrients in them, however you appear to have suggested that 1000 calories of a food has the same nutrients regardless of the food, which just doesn't make sense.


I was quoting the calories based on what a dog food calculator had quoted and thinking that in all dog food they use minimum AAFCO required nutrients; Kathyy explained it pretty well. What I don't understand (other than for profits) is how a food such as Orijen can give feeding instructions that far off if their kibble is that nutrient rich. I couldn't tell you what dog foods have what % of nutrients as I am not well versed in dog food. The only things I know (and just recently learned) is to avoid corn, soy and wheat as most dogs shouldn't have them and try to get mostly meat based protein vs plant based. I do understand now that dogs are getting their needed amount of nutrients on much less food based on Kathyy's explanation; I guess that some dogs are used to eating so little that they aren't scavenging all the time. For me at this point, I would rather feed my dog a little less premium kibble to have her have a little more bulk so she isn't hungry all the time.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Profit for one thing although the consumer who feeds the suggested amount and the dog doesn't do well is just going to bad mouth the food as it didn't work. Sometimes the dog will just get fat though. Then the consumer thinks the dog is supposed to be that fat because that is what the chart on the bag read to feed.

The calories are based on dogs getting a lot more exercise I suspect. Outside dogs maybe?

Volume of food is a huge deal for me. I didn't have any problem feeding 1.5 cups a day but Max needed less than a cup of EVO and I just couldn't do it. Then when he did get fat on homecooking it was because the amount in the bowl just didn't look like enough to feed my buddy. Max was fine on a cup of EVO and probably would have been fine on less, it was my problem.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Well Kathyy, I have to say thank you as I understand some of what is going on and how 2 different dogs weighing about the same can eat drastically different amounts.

I forgot where I saw it but there was a dog food calculator that asked what the level of exercise the dog received and it had couch potato as one of it's choices. We adopted Zoey when she was 4 months old and the calculators were saying she needed about 1200 calories which is a lot of food even if it was Orijen; so I fed Zoey 2 1/4 cups which was 1080 calories which eventually went down to 2 cups... lower calories than what was the "correct" amount. I was floored when the store said I was feeding her way too much and a 80 lb dog only should get 1 cup of food.

I think I have the same "problem" ... I need my dog to eat more ... it probably is my Italian heritage!

Did you feed Max the lesser quantity of EVO and if you did was he scavenging for food?


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

So far so okay with Luke. I'm continuing to reduce his food that way he won't be in shock, also he's pooping smaller too. Don't know if that's good or not. I'm planning on playing with him longer than I normally do too. Oh and BostonBullMama, he isn't on wet food. Our vet from day one said that would pack on the pounds, so we only feed him dry food. 

If the price is the same at Cutter's Mill, for Blue, I'm going to ask my father if we can get Luke that. Nothing is wrong with NutroMax, but Blue is supposed to be healthier. I'm just giving him treats on the weekends, like Dentistixs, is that okay?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Just cut back on the kibble fed that night. This page indicates a small one has 44 calories. I would give him a good chew on a protein rich bully stick instead. They have about 19 calories an inch, just distract and remove it once he has had enough of a nice big one.
http://www.pedigree.com/connect/answer.aspx?id=52a221f6-408b-4c70-a66f-7fd4feb68382

Sheesh, you feed the amount of food the dog does well on. You cannot categorically state a dog of such weight gets such amount of food!

Since he is a little guy better google anything you want to give him so you have a better idea how much is going into him.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Normally people say to cut the amount of food down when feeding treats, but if Dentistixs aren't too many calories you should be OK.

I think Nutromax is much less expensive than Blue. I used to buy my last dog Nutro Natural Choice and Blue was way more money at Petsmart than Nutro. A better food than Nutro and about the same price (maybe even cheaper) is the 4Health at Tractor Supply and maybe Diamond Naturals is available around you.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh Dog Person--thanks. We have a Tractor Supply about 20min away from us. I wonder if Cutter's Mill would have them.

Kathyy--Dentistixs are that much. Never heard of bully sticks till I came on DF, I'll have to look them up. Okay read what they are...that's just too weird. Maybe I can find another healthy treat that Luke will like. My neighbor suggested one, I forget what it's called though. I remember it's white, thin, and good for the teeth.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

if you only need something for teeth every few days, maybe try zukes z-bones. A friend gave one to Manna and she loved it.

We feed bully sticks as well and well, it still sounds weird, though a good conversation with friends on weirdness.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Something I should have added ... whatever food you decide to try buy a little bag, nothing worse than buying a large bag and finding out your pup doesn't like it! I've done that a few times!!!


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Dog Person said:


> Normally people say to cut the amount of food down when feeding treats, but if Dentistixs aren't too many calories you should be OK.
> 
> I think Nutromax is much less expensive than Blue. I used to buy my last dog Nutro Natural Choice and Blue was way more money at Petsmart than Nutro. A better food than Nutro and about the same price (maybe even cheaper) is the 4Health at Tractor Supply and maybe Diamond Naturals is available around you.


Nutromax is a pretty poor quality food. 

There are several budget friendly options out there, that will have healthier ingredients, and might help your dog lose weight. 

Whole Earth Farms is sold at all Petco's, and is 8lbs for around $12. 

4health as previously mentioned.

Costco has their food also that is pretty budget friendly. 

Premium Edge has a 6lb bag that is around $15.

Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul is also around that price range.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

From what I understand Diamond naturals is very similar to the Costco Kirkland Nature's Domain (which is manufactured by Diamond), which I would recommend to anyone who has budgetary concerns.

Many companies offer sample sizes, or if you buy your food from a pet store, I know Petsmart offers a 100% money-back guarantee on any food they sell, even if its just because your dog doesn't like it.

This whole thing made me very curious about Snowball. According to calorie calculators, Snowball "requires" 639 calories per day, based on neutered, inactive dog who's ideal weight is 30 lbs (Snowball could safely be a bit thinner than that, but he is in pretty good condition at ~30lbs, with a waist and a good tuck). The food he is on now is 336 kcal/cup, and he gets at the very, very most, when we are being very generous with "treats" (we use mostly kibble), 1 cup/day. He gets somewhere between 1/2 and 1 Trader Joes beef jerky chew per day (20-40 calories) as well as half a dozen or so Orijen freeze-dried treats (at 5 calories per treat). In total, IF he is getting 1 cup of food (and that is a very, very generous estimation). In total that is 336 + 40 + 30 = 406 calories/day - about 2/3rds of what he "should" be getting.

Coton, how do you feel about feeding (some) raw? Duck/chicken necks and feet are supposed to be really good dental "chews". Lots of glucosamine and chondritin in the feet too, which is great for the joints.

A lot of the "recommended" amounts on bags of food are based on the caloric needs of working dogs, rather than "pets". In the case of Orijen, their website and packaging both state "Your dog is a unique individual and his feeding requirements will _vary with his breed, environment, age and activity_. That”s why we suggest starting with the guides below, and then monitoring his weight and adjusting portions as needed." When it comes to food, dogs aren't any different than people - you gotta do what works for you, and what works for you won't always work for someone else. What works for a professional athlete might not work for Joe Schmoe who works in a bank, and vice versa.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh darn, I feel dumb. Luke doesn't eat NutroMax, it's Nutro's Natural Choice he eats. *smacks self*

Dog Person--thank you, I know. If we switch Luke's food (again) we'll do it slowly. 

meggels--thanks for the suggestions. I'm not a fan of buying the really small bags because they go quickly; I usually go for the medium sized bags as they last longer and you're not wasting money every four weeks or whatever.

gingerkid--I guess I would try raw for Luke. As long as it's completely 100% safe, I know most products are that pet stores sell, but I have to be firmly convinced before buying for my little dude. They won't choke on it? 

I guess I keep thinking if I don't fill the bowl (as in you can't see the bottom) then he's not getting enough. I have to stop thinking like that.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Get a smaller bowl??? My medium sized dogs used 1 quart bowls when they were on kibble and the bottom was just covered with the little bit of food they got twice a day.

For lower calorie chews you could try tendons or cow ears if bully sticks don't appeal to you. Maybe lamb ears would work for a little dog. Why pig ears are super greasy and the others not I don't know but I wouldn't give pig ears. I liked getting the assorted chews from Merrick, all small and look to be lean.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Croton, here's a food calculator for you to use: http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm You just need to know how much your dog should weigh and the calories of your food - it's usually on the side of the bag. It's a starting point. Unfortunately the calculators and side of the bags are wrong for feeding correctly. Like Gingerkid said, it calculated that Zoey should be eating more food than what I feed her - Zoey's 35 lbs, Vet said she's at ideal weight and I was feeding her 2 cups of food per day (351 calories per cup) but I haven't been able to get her to the park so I cut it down to 1 1/2 cups because of the lack of exercise. Kathyy seems to have calculated out how much her dog's needs are and I started out with the calculator's amount leaving some room for treats and worked down from there. I spoke to the Vet about Zoey's weight and basically she said to look at her condition - can you feel her ribs, does her belly tuck in and is there an indent between her ribs and hind hips, if these conditions are not met - she needs less food.

I'm like Kathyy in that I "need" my dog to have a volume of food and it seems the better the food the less you have to feed even though the calories may be close. If I need to put her on a diet I will keep her at 1 1/2 cups and give her more exercise or reduce it slightly. If you do decide to change food think about how premium you want to go at this point - based on what people say if I were to feed Orijen I would be feeding her less than a cup of food. Personally, I can't see giving a dog too little food as it will be scavenging for food all the time - at this point with the amount of food Zoey gets she doesn't do that.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Go by how he feels condition-wise. His sides should feel like the back of your hand. You should feel ribs without having to press very hard. 

My two eat 1/4 a cup a day plus training treats.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> Go by how he feels condition-wise. His sides should feel like the back of your hand. You should feel ribs without having to press very hard.


Great explanation!


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Laurelin--that I know thank you, but I might've been doing it wrong. Because I can feel his ribs, but then when we'd take him to the vet he was 21lb. Yeah I give him training treats if he's good throughout the week, but he's only allowed the Dentistixs or whatever on weekends.

Dog Person--thank you, I'll click on the link to see what to do. 

I have to go to PetsMart today to get more of his food, but I'm going to write down what you all said and about what healthy treats to try too. So thank you all very much!


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