# What do i do now!!!



## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

So I have been having the hardest time trying to take care of my girl Nova. I've never had this issue with any of my other dogs or my foster furbabies, and I feel helpless and like I am failing her. We spent around $1700 in vet bills last month (and around $400-$500 a month since we got her 4 months ago) for her and my last trip was to my local holistic vet clinic. I was told that, due to her many food allergies, she is very nutrient deficient which is causing her to be prone to all of her recent infections. Her skin is SO dry and itchy. 

We went from kibble (even some limited ingredient kibble) to raw, thinking that that would be the magical answer...nope. She is allergic to chicken, turkey, and duck. So our holistic vet told us to try beef. Her ears swelled up like I have never seen before. They are so red and inflamed. They are even bleeding! She even has a little sore on her face! She also has crazy intermittent diarrhea sometimes with blood and mucous. Sometimes she vomits  So allergic to chicken, turkey, beef, and duck...that we know of. She also has never eaten any grains since we have gotten her.

Pumpkin, we use it. Slippery elm, we use it when she's having a bout of the runs. I use coconut oil on her skin and ears. Probiotcs and digestive enzymes, we bought the best. (Our vet has since told us to give her herbs a try instead.) I use DIY housecleaners and wash her bedding twice a week. I always have fresh water out for her and wash her food and water bowl twice a day! 

I don't know what to do, and I feel like the worst dog mom ever. She looks at me like she is in so much pain. I can see the tear stains forming around her eyes and it just breaks my heart. We can't afford to buy novel protein raw for her (she's almost 8 months old and weighs 50 pounds now...it would be be around $300 a month to feed her if we did that and that's as much as we feed ourselves in a month). Obviously raw is best, and we would like to feed her something that mimics that if we would...and if she could tolerate it. But I don't know what to do anymore. Sorry for the novel. I just had to get it all off of my chest.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Do you know anyone who hunts? You might be able to get last year's freezer-burned venison for free or cheap. Have you tried pork? Fish? Were the meats you tried organic? (I know someone whose cat can't tolerate regular chicken or cat food with chicken in it, but he can eat vegetarian-fed or organic raw chicken) Any local rabbit farmers? Sheep farmers? 

Also try www.hare-today.com; even if you fed all rabbit, it wouldn't cost $300 a month (I think; I was guessing at a pound a day), and I think goat and mutton are cheaper. And www.mypetcarnivore.com has muskrat. . .talk about a novel protein! (ETA: Oops, forgot you were in Canada! There may be a similar company up there, worth looking into)

Addiction makes brushtail- and kangaroo-based foods. Expensive, though

I hope you can find out what poor Nova can eat . It sounds like a true food allergy, and those are so rare.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

This is a little bit out of left field and I don't even know if its a _good_ idea, but its a thought I would entertain if in your shoes. It sounds like all her allergies are to animal proteins. Have you considered putting her on a vegetarian/vegan food? If you gave that a shot just to get her stabilized, you could then do single protein trials until you found something that she could tolerate. Bouncing from one allergen to another with no symptom abatement cannot be good for her system, perhaps even making her less likely to tolerate the next change.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Wow, that's rough. I would try the highest doses of Vitamin C she can handle (dose to bowel tolerance, best spread out over 2-3+ doses per day) as it's a natural antihistamine. 

It definitely shouldn't cost that much to feed raw, were you looking at pre-made? If you're up for a little "leg work", feeding prey model should work out to be relatively inexpensive, even for a large dog, and even for novel proteins.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Emmett said:


> This is a little bit out of left field and I don't even know if its a _good_ idea, but its a thought I would entertain if in your shoes. It sounds like all her allergies are to animal proteins. Have you considered putting her on a vegetarian/vegan food? If you gave that a shot just to get her stabilized, you could then do single protein trials until you found something that she could tolerate. Bouncing from one allergen to another with no symptom abatement cannot be good for her system, perhaps even making her less likely to tolerate the next change.


I was kind of thinking this too. Of course it depends what else she's allergic to, but since everything so far seems to be meat proteins, it might be worth a shot. Wysong makes a vegan food (kibble and canned), and Natural Balance makes a vegetarian kibble (and maybe canned?). Or a homemade tofu- or cottage cheese-based diet. Like one of the meals listed here (you have to scroll down a bit to get to vegetarian options): http://www.dogcathomeprepareddiet.com/feeding_a_normal_dog_or_cat.html#adult


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Do you know anyone who hunts? You might be able to get last year's freezer-burned venison for free or cheap. Have you tried pork? Fish? Were the meats you tried organic? (I know someone whose cat can't tolerate regular chicken or cat food with chicken in it, but he can eat vegetarian-fed or organic raw chicken) Any local rabbit farmers? Sheep farmers?
> 
> Also try www.hare-today.com; even if you fed all rabbit, it wouldn't cost $300 a month (I think; I was guessing at a pound a day), and I think goat and mutton are cheaper. And www.mypetcarnivore.com has muskrat. . .talk about a novel protein! (ETA: Oops, forgot you were in Canada! There may be a similar company up there, worth looking into)
> 
> ...


I wish I knew someone who hunted and I've contacted some local farmers in my area....yikes!!! I've googled raw co-ops in my area as well, and I can't find any. I've contacted some local butchers, they are quoting my $10 a pound for bison. Unfortunately, they don't sell any really novel proteins. Right now, Nova eats 2 pounds of raw a day, and we've had to feed her commercial raw, but we have been very VERY careful to make sure that they organic and hormone and antibiotic free meats that are used (at least, that we know of from what the local company says). 

We haven't tried any other proteins as of yet, except lamb and salmon in kibble form. They were limited ingredient kibbles. The kibble didn't go over very well and she vomited quite a bit and got the runs. No ear flare-ups or super itchy skin, though, so it could have just been the processed kibble not agreeing with her vs. the lamb/salmon. 

Maybe there is a way to approach the local farmers (cough cough...get a better price) that I'm just not doing.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Emmett said:


> This is a little bit out of left field and I don't even know if its a _good_ idea, but its a thought I would entertain if in your shoes. It sounds like all her allergies are to animal proteins. Have you considered putting her on a vegetarian/vegan food? If you gave that a shot just to get her stabilized, you could then do single protein trials until you found something that she could tolerate. Bouncing from one allergen to another with no symptom abatement cannot be good for her system, perhaps even making her less likely to tolerate the next change.


I'm willing to try anything at this point, and if a vegan/vegetarian food gives her some relief then I think it is well worth it. I'm going to look into that. Thank you


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Bison is basically just low-fat beef. . .bison and cows are so closely related that they can interbreed (beefalo!), so since she had such a bad reaction to beef I don't think bison is going to be any better.

Are there any health-food stores in the area? They may know of more local small-time meat farmers.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

CoverTune said:


> Wow, that's rough. I would try the highest doses of Vitamin C she can handle (dose to bowel tolerance, best spread out over 2-3+ doses per day) as it's a natural antihistamine.
> 
> It definitely shouldn't cost that much to feed raw, were you looking at pre-made? If you're up for a little "leg work", feeding prey model should work out to be relatively inexpensive, even for a large dog, and even for novel proteins.


We were feeding commercial raw. As per my reply to Willowy, I don't know any hunters and the local farmers I've contacted have provided me with costs comparable to the commercial raw for novel proteins. I've been able to find a rabbit farmer (I only found people breeding rabbits for pets and such) or anything really novel, though. I'm going to look again today. Hopefully I missed something. I've also googled raw co-ops in my area, and unfortunately, there are none.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I don't really think a vegan/vegetarian diet will be good for your dog on the long run, but I don't see anything wrong with putting your dog on it for now until you figure out what's going on. Have you tried other novelty meats like rabbit, ostrich, elk, bison, etc.?


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Bison is basically just low-fat beef. . .bison and cows are so closely related that they can interbreed (beefalo!), so since she had such a bad reaction to beef I don't think bison is going to be any better.
> 
> Are there any health-food stores in the area? They may know of more local small-time meat farmers.


I had no idea. Our vet suggested bison should she not be able to tolerate the beef. I guess that's a no-go. Thank you for telling me ahead of time. I'm just starting to get her ears under control. (She tolerates cottage cheese and sweet potato well. That's our go-to "bland diet.") 

Thank you. That's a great idea. I will look into that for sure.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Willowy said:


> I was kind of thinking this too. Of course it depends what else she's allergic to, but since everything so far seems to be meat proteins, it might be worth a shot. Wysong makes a vegan food (kibble and canned), and Natural Balance makes a vegetarian kibble (and maybe canned?). Or a homemade tofu- or cottage cheese-based diet. Like one of the meals listed here (you have to scroll down a bit to get to vegetarian options): http://www.dogcathomeprepareddiet.com/feeding_a_normal_dog_or_cat.html#adult


Thank you for the link! I found one that I think would work for her (the cottage cheese and potato one). I'm also going to look into the Wysong and NB food as well.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Start of summer and hot weather... Roman has lost his appetite for kibbles.
And he was losing a bit of weight... one can tell after a bath to see through the fur.

So I started giving him milk (goat & cow... raw preferably... his breeder suggested that when we first got Roman as she has a goat farm Roman's dam is the LGD and even helped hand raise some puppies without mommies).
When I ran out, I even supplemented the normal milk to see if he is lactose intolerant...
And he wasn't. Tell from how soon he poops after drinking and how often he gets soft poops.

I know... as I am lactose intolerent.
But I love milk.

My FILs has a family dairy farms and all the farm dogs and cats have access to milk & tons of it.
FIL discuss the potato drought once with me and said all human needs to survive without proper access to all foods is eggs and milk.

I also deeply believe in the benefits of milk...

Think what do puppies and infants drink when they first arrive into the world???

Just Google and check out dogfoodadvisor on milk and dogs articles.
Also read the WordPress article from dancing dog farm... regarding goat milk.

Ask your vet about goat milk (7%less lactose and smaller fat molecules that passes through intestinal tract so it ferments less and have less osmoctic reaction) if beneficial to Nova.

If and when dog have problem in jesting nutrients... try giving it to them as a drink.
What better than a cool milk just like from mom?

Good luck with Nova.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I'd put her on the hydrolyzed protein prescription diet for now and work on finding something that works from that. If cottage cheese is tolerated then it is perfectly possible to make up a nutritious diet with that and the sweet potato by adding minerals and vitamins in the appropriate amounts which would be added one at a time in small amounts at first.
Here http://www.dogcathomeprepareddiet.com/index.htm or possibly https://secure.balanceit.com/ or figure it out using NRC numbers. Monica Segal has the method for making up a balanced diet in her books.

Then once she is on a completely balanced diet of sweet potato and cottage work to finding other foods that work for her. Perhaps fish?

You do what you have to do. Maybe there aren't any meats that will ever work for her. Work with what she can tolerate instead.


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## TinyTails (May 16, 2011)

I dealt with Deuce's food allergies for years and finally figured out after years foods he does well on. I used to think he was allergic to proteins such as chicken etc. but finally figured out it was white potato in all the foods that was the issue. Do you know for sure he can't have those proteins? Have you tried The Honest Kitchen? It has done wonders for us - we use Thrive and Zeal. We also use Canine Caviar open sky - it has very limited ingredients. The Zeal really helps lots of pups with issues, here's the ingredient list:
Haddock, whiting, sweet potatoes, eggs, organic coconut, organic alfalfa, apples, pumpkin, parsley, cabbage, bananas, salmon, cranberries, garlic, rosemary extract, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate.


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## shellbeme (Sep 9, 2010)

TinyTails said:


> I dealt with Deuce's food allergies for years and finally figured out after years foods he does well on. I used to think he was allergic to proteins such as chicken etc. but finally figured out it was white potato in all the foods that was the issue. Do you know for sure he can't have those proteins? Have you tried The Honest Kitchen? It has done wonders for us - we use Thrive and Zeal. We also use Canine Caviar open sky - it has very limited ingredients. The Zeal really helps lots of pups with issues, here's the ingredient list:
> Haddock, whiting, sweet potatoes, eggs, organic coconut, organic alfalfa, apples, pumpkin, parsley, cabbage, bananas, salmon, cranberries, garlic, rosemary extract, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate.


Exactly what I was thinking. If you're going to go a kibble route, look into Canine Caviar, maybe even e mail them with questions-they are very helpful. 

I was also thinking the honest kitchen they have so many different options, they also offer herbal supplements in the form of teas and they have a new goats milk thing that looks neat. You can look over the formula's to find what is best (they are also exceptionally helpful if you e mail them) I was also thinking of the Preference formula that has you add your own protein source be it fish, meat or egg, or I'm sure they can come up with some other ideas for you too. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/

There is also addiction dehydrated foods that come in some pretty wild flavors. No pun intended. http://www.addictionfoods.com/

I love THK but I think addiction is great too especially if you need unique protein sources. I usually order from chewy.com


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

pawsaddict said:


> So I have been having the hardest time trying to take care of my girl Nova. I've never had this issue with any of my other dogs or my foster furbabies, and I feel helpless and like I am failing her. We spent around $1700 in vet bills last month (and around $400-$500 a month since we got her 4 months ago) for her and my last trip was to my local holistic vet clinic. I was told that, due to her many food allergies, she is very nutrient deficient which is causing her to be prone to all of her recent infections. Her skin is SO dry and itchy.
> 
> We went from kibble (even some limited ingredient kibble) to raw, thinking that that would be the magical answer...nope. She is allergic to chicken, turkey, and duck. So our holistic vet told us to try beef. Her ears swelled up like I have never seen before. They are so red and inflamed. They are even bleeding! She even has a little sore on her face! She also has crazy intermittent diarrhea sometimes with blood and mucous. Sometimes she vomits  So allergic to chicken, turkey, beef, and duck...that we know of. She also has never eaten any grains since we have gotten her.
> 
> ...



Co worker blew me away last week when she told me her allergy dog subsisted on mashed pinto beans and a baked potatoe-- for ten years-- dog finally passed at age 16!!!!!
It was the only thing they found that worked--- rabbit worked for awhile then she became allergic to that as well... 
My allergy dog did ok on canned salmon rice, cottage cheese and egg..... He had poultry, lamb, wheat , soy and corn allergies.... as well as tomatoes.... We never fed raw either, it is workable once you figure out what your dog can tolerate-- heck where do you live? try something like mashed trout (or whatever local fish) and rice/ cottage cheese... Home made can be a great alternative... to raw.... (beans and rice is pretty cheap).....
Hang in there I know how frustrating it can be....


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

Look up the liver cleansing diet. I had my dog on it for a few months. Is mostly vegetables with a limited amount of fish. He had serous skin allergies, really itchy, before I put him on that. I didn't feed him the diet for the itching but it ended up stopping it along with healing his sever liver & gallbladder problems. I highly recommend it.

This is the site I used to base his diet off of:http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/liver_diet.htm


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

pawsaddict said:


> So I have been having the hardest time trying to take care of my girl Nova. I've never had this issue with any of my other dogs or my foster furbabies, and I feel helpless and like I am failing her. We spent around $1700 in vet bills last month (and around $400-$500 a month since we got her 4 months ago) for her and my last trip was to my local holistic vet clinic. I was told that, due to her many food allergies, she is very nutrient deficient which is causing her to be prone to all of her recent infections. Her skin is SO dry and itchy.
> 
> We went from kibble (even some limited ingredient kibble) to raw, thinking that that would be the magical answer...nope. She is allergic to chicken, turkey, and duck. So our holistic vet told us to try beef. Her ears swelled up like I have never seen before. They are so red and inflamed. They are even bleeding! She even has a little sore on her face! She also has crazy intermittent diarrhea sometimes with blood and mucous. Sometimes she vomits  So allergic to chicken, turkey, beef, and duck...that we know of. She also has never eaten any grains since we have gotten her.
> 
> ...


Just curious, how did you first determine that the allergic skin disease was due to food alone? Also, how were you able to determine all of those things that she's allergic to???


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## Tuco (Jun 16, 2013)

pawsaddict said:


> So I have been having the hardest time trying to take care of my girl Nova. I've never had this issue with any of my other dogs or my foster furbabies, and I feel helpless and like I am failing her. We spent around $1700 in vet bills last month (and around $400-$500 a month since we got her 4 months ago) for her and my last trip was to my local holistic vet clinic. I was told that, due to her many food allergies, she is very nutrient deficient which is causing her to be prone to all of her recent infections. Her skin is SO dry and itchy.
> 
> We went from kibble (even some limited ingredient kibble) to raw, thinking that that would be the magical answer...nope. She is allergic to chicken, turkey, and duck. So our holistic vet told us to try beef. Her ears swelled up like I have never seen before. They are so red and inflamed. They are even bleeding! She even has a little sore on her face! She also has crazy intermittent diarrhea sometimes with blood and mucous. Sometimes she vomits  So allergic to chicken, turkey, beef, and duck...that we know of. She also has never eaten any grains since we have gotten her.
> 
> ...


Have you tried pork, it seems to be the least common food allergy of them all besides lamb (also a great option)


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I have no advice .... just been reading along and wondering how Nova is doing? This is intersting and very helpful to others who have allergy dogs. Poor girl.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Mr. V said:


> Just curious, how did you first determine that the allergic skin disease was due to food alone? Also, how were you able to determine all of those things that she's allergic to???


For example, when we fed her beef, her ears became so itchy that she scratched them until they bled and bled. They were so swollen and red. We actually had to put a cone on her to stop her from going at them. She is missing patches of fur on her face and legs. She is constantly licking her paws and rear. This has occurred since we've gotten her, so through winter, spring, and now into summer. Therefore, they are not seasonal allergies (my other dog gets those every spring). I try my best to greatly control our household environment. I only use dog-friendly homemade cleaners; I vacuum every day; I wash her bedding twice a week (using hypoallergenic detergent); I use filtered water for her; I wash her bowls twice a day; her bed is hypoallergenic; I only use hypoallergenic organic colloidal oatmeal shampoo when I do give her a bath; etc. I've taken her to many vets. They have told me she has food allergies.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

TinyTails said:


> I dealt with Deuce's food allergies for years and finally figured out after years foods he does well on. I used to think he was allergic to proteins such as chicken etc. but finally figured out it was white potato in all the foods that was the issue. Do you know for sure he can't have those proteins? Have you tried The Honest Kitchen? It has done wonders for us - we use Thrive and Zeal. We also use Canine Caviar open sky - it has very limited ingredients. The Zeal really helps lots of pups with issues, here's the ingredient list:
> Haddock, whiting, sweet potatoes, eggs, organic coconut, organic alfalfa, apples, pumpkin, parsley, cabbage, bananas, salmon, cranberries, garlic, rosemary extract, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate.


We actually did try THK in the beginning. She kept throwing up the Zeal and the Preference (we were adding elk to the preference)  I will have to look into Canine Caviar. Thank you for your suggestions!!


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Abbylynn said:


> I have no advice .... just been reading along and wondering how Nova is doing? This is intersting and very helpful to others who have allergy dogs. Poor girl.


It was suggested to us to try Nature's Variety Instinct LID Lamb. I was pretty hesitant because we had tried another LID lamb kibble before and she didn't tolerate it well. It's been maybe a week, week-and-a-half now and she is doing really well on it! Her poops are pretty good...and actually pretty consistent! She hasn't thrown up! Her ears aren't inflamed! And she isn't constantly scratching/licking herself - she still does, but not nearly as much (I assume it will take some time for all the allergens to clear out of her system). I looked at her face yesterday, and she had no new scabs (from scratching at her face). I hope her fur will start to grow back soon and that she will be able to put on some weight. I also hope all of the infections she has been getting will stop (hopefully, she is actually getting some nutrients now). I know that the kibble is not nearly as good as properly balanced raw or home-cooked meals, but for now, I am very happy. She seems like she is actually getting relief now. She seems happy  My only worries now are 1) that this kibble will somehow not work out and 2) that we will have to find another one eventually so that she doesn't develop an allergy to this one. But with all of the awesome suggestions on this thread, it shouldn't be that hard  As was suggested, pork as a protein source or Canine Caviar may be added into the rotation one day. Wish us luck!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I am happy to hear some positive results! It has to be such a relief for your poor pup! ... as well as for yourself. I am wishing you good luck .... much of it!


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Abbylynn said:


> I am happy to hear some positive results! It has to be such a relief for your poor pup! ... as well as for yourself. I am wishing you good luck .... much of it!


Thank you so much, Abbylynn! We really appreciate it


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

I am so happy to read she is doing well on lamb! Lamb and rabbit are the only things my boy can eat without blow out diarrhea. I am happy you have found something that is working for you and I wish you the best of luck!


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Damon'sMom said:


> I am so happy to read she is doing well on lamb! Lamb and rabbit are the only things my boy can eat without blow out diarrhea. I am happy you have found something that is working for you and I wish you the best of luck!


Thank you so much, Damon'sMom!!!


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Just an update, Nova doesn't seem to be tolerating the NV food anymore. She's back to bad poops and major scratching. BAH! I'm going to try and push through with this food trial, though. Hopefully everything will improve. Fingers crossed.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

pawsaddict said:


> Just an update, Nova doesn't seem to be tolerating the NV food anymore. She's back to bad poops and major scratching. BAH! I'm going to try and push through with this food trial, though. Hopefully everything will improve. Fingers crossed.


Poor Nova!  .......... I sure hope something works ... it has to be miserable.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Raw is certainly not some 'magical' answer to everything so don't feel bad it didn't work!

I wouldn't hesitate to put a dog like this on a prescription food. I've read about a few dogs who were absolutely miserable until being put on a hydrolyzed RX diet. Royal Canin has a Rabbit & Potato and a Venison RX food that could work.

http://www.southernagriculture.com/...Nextag&zmam=17172995&zmas=1&zmac=2&zmap=28746


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Elk, fish, emu, ostrich are options if you can find farms. 

Look at nearby hunting supply stores, place an ad, look up local hunting forums or guided outfitters. Usually hunters would be glad to bag an extra deer. Leftover organs are great.


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## TinyTails (May 16, 2011)

I know you have tried some of the THK formulas, have you tried the Thrive? That is their formula that has very few ingredients. With my dog's allergies and my mom's shepherd with a sensitive stomach it has worked great. For both of them it seems the less ingredients the dog food has the better they always do. You might also want to try the turkey NIV or the duck. Have you ever heard of the yin and yan for dog food? Some people think it's crazy but I think it actually works


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

TinyTails said:


> I know you have tried some of the THK formulas, have you tried the Thrive? That is their formula that has very few ingredients. With my dog's allergies and my mom's shepherd with a sensitive stomach it has worked great. For both of them it seems the less ingredients the dog food has the better they always do. You might also want to try the turkey NIV or the duck. Have you ever heard of the yin and yan for dog food? Some people think it's crazy but I think it actually works


Nova is allergic to all poultry, so THK Thrive is out of the question, unfortunately (although I wish it wasn't). She also reacts very adversely to duck, which I thought would be good for her since it is a cooling food. I agree, though, that the fewer the ingredients in the food, the better. It's just a matter of finding a protein source that she can tolerate and that I can find/afford. I looked into her ears this evening, and they are starting to bleed again from all of her scratching 

I haven't heard of the yin and yang dog food. What is it?


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Abbylynn said:


> Poor Nova!  .......... I sure hope something works ... it has to be miserable.


Thanks, Abbylynn. I hope something works too. I'm trying to stick the food trial out, but man, is it hard when you see everything starting to go downhill. I looked in her ears earlier this evening, and they are starting to bleed/scab again from all of her scratching


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

I'm part of a natural rearing group on Facebook and this is a copy of one of the documents that has been compiled in the group regarding allergies. Any questions.. I suggest joining the group. =)


_Allergies, Allergies, Allergies!

Allergies have become an epidemic. Dogs with inferior or damage immunity are susceptible to allergic reaction more so than a truly healthy dog. Being common does not make allergies normal. They are the result of a confused and out of balance immune system underreacting or overreacting and jus not doing it’s job well. 
The main reasons for allergies are :
Flawed food – commercial food is highly processed, inferior in quality, has many chemicals and not an appropriate balance for a carnivore. 
Poor Breeding – Puppy mills, un ethical breeders who knowingly breed dogs with these sensitivies to allergens, and people breeding pets without knowledge of lineage and issues in those lines. 
Vaccination – this creates a massive insult to the immune system leading to general dysfunction and allergies among they typical symptoms of vaccinosis. 
Chemical in the environment – these weaken the immune system and without excellent nutrition the body does not have a chance to recuperate. Their bodies (and ours) have become toxic waste dumps. Lawn chemicals, pesticides, cleaning agents, disinfectants, lead, and even processed food are all toxins. 

WHY ALLERGIES ALL OF A SUDDEN? Allergies can develop and intensify or accumulate at any time in an animal or person’s life. Imagine their body is a barrel that can hold a specific amount of stress and toxicity. Each barrel is different depending on genetic strengths, diet, lifestyle, environment, and the amount of chemical exposures common to their lifestyle. When this barrel over flows the symptoms appear. For animals the combination of poor food, vaccinations, flea topicals, heart worm meds, anti biotics, and genetic weakness will determine the symptoms you see. 

Allergy symptoms – 
Persistent biting, licking or scratching
Inflammation, lumps, bumps or recurring sores
Inflames ears with repeated infections
Repeatedly goopey eyes
Hair loss
Dull, dry coat

Controlling Allergies – sadly there are no simple answers to allergies. But here are some things you can do to alleviate the worst of the symptoms.
1 – Feed a species appropriate diet
2 – Boost the immune system with a good probiotic (we use Primal Defense Ultra) and Bovine colostrums to boost and support the immune system. 
3 – Avoid vaccines as allergies are a common symptom of vaccinosis
4 – Use natural products in the home and yard as repeated exposure to chemical weakens and eventually destroys the proper immune response. 
5 – Dr. Bonners of other mild, chemical free shampoo should be used. 
6 – Avoid plastic feeding bowls
7 – Avoid flea topical and other pestisides, conventional wormers and any un necessary medications. Anti biotics, steroids, etc damage and inhibit proper immune function and damage the gut. 

Herbs for Itchy Skin – 
1 – Skineze is a nice combination herbal which has had good results with common skin allergies. It can be purchased through Good Communications 800-9968-1738
2 – Phytogel – is an excellent skin gel for dealing with hot spots, eczema, and skin infection due to allergies. This is available from Ayuvet 888-881-8767
3 – Plantain – it reduces redness, inflammation and itching. You can get the leaf and grind it into a paste and apply to affected areas. It can also be taken internally. 
4 – Hot spot – Arnica 30c ; give twice daily for three days. If you see signs of improvement stop dosing. If the problem return dose again twice a day for three days. 
5 – Sweaty or smelly skin – Sulfur 30c ; once a day for three days
6 – B complex vitamin – improves the health of skin. 
7 – Vitamin C; Anti oxidants – (about 6 weeks to adjust to the changes) Mega C plus which acts as an antihistamine and is available from Orthomolecular Specialties 408-227-9334. The anti oxidant combo of E, A, and selenium through the same vendor. This protects against stress and oxidative damage while helping to raise the efficiency of thyroid function and adrenal hormones. It also helps boost resistance. Dosage – Mega C start with 750 milligrams daily for small dogs, medium dogs 1500 milligrams and large dogs 3000 milligrams. Increase dose every three days until loose stools occur – when this happens go back to the previous dose when they had firm stools. Tolerance varies from animal to animal. Once the symptoms disappear return to the original level for maintenance throughout the allergy season. Anti oxidants – Vit E. small dogs 800 AU; med dogs 1600 AU; large dogs 2400 AU – Vitamin A for small dogs 10,000 IU; med dogs 20,000 AU; large dogs 30,000 IU - and Selenium for small dogs 20 micrograms, medium dogs 40 micrograms and large dogs 60 micrograms. When symptoms dissipate wean the animal off the supplements slowly. 
8 – Healing Oil for Hot Spots – Calendula is wonderful for healing a hot spot as is aloe Vera.
9- Wet , warm tea bags (black tea) can be applied to the affected area. This is instead of a cortisone cream. The tannic acids from the tea will soothe and relieve itching. Apply two to three times per day for five minutes at a time. Following the tea bag apply aloe vera.
10 – Scratching and sore, inflamed skin – 
Vitamin B6 – a natural antihistamine – dosage for small dogs 25 milligrams twice daily with food ; larger dogs can get 50 milligrams twice daily with food. Give for seven to ten days and the reduce dosage slowly as condition improves. 
Skin and Seborrhea by Homeopet (800-423-2256) Give 3 times daily for three to four days. Small dogs 7 drops; med dogs 10 drops ; large dogs 12 drops. When scratching is subsided and animal is calmer give drops for 7-10 more days then discontinue. Follow this procedure in the case of flare ups. 
11 – Rhus Tox 30 c – one pellet twice a day for small and medium dogs and 2-3 pellets for larger dogs twice per day. You can also give as often as every three hours until you see improvement; continue for 7 days. 
12 - Kai Yeung – Chinese herb for clearing chronic dermatitis. Available through Asia Herbs (415-989-9268) Small/medium dogs 1 caplet large dogs 2 caplets. Give daily for three to four weeks or until symptoms abate. Then reduce in half for a month and then discontinue use. 
13 - Shampoo – Dr. Bonner Lavender soap and add 10 drops of tea tree oil and one tablespoon of aloe vera to 8 ounces. Shampoo dog and let shampoo remain for 5-10 minutes. Rinse well and then apply half a cup of apple cider vinegar to a gallon of water and rinse the dog with this. Do not rinse with plain water let the ACV rinse dry on your dog. This will help restore proper Ph balance to his skin. 
I hope this information can help some of your dogs._


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Raw is certainly not some 'magical' answer to everything so don't feel bad it didn't work!
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to put a dog like this on a prescription food. I've read about a few dogs who were absolutely miserable until being put on a hydrolyzed RX diet. Royal Canin has a Rabbit & Potato and a Venison RX food that could work.
> 
> http://www.southernagriculture.com/...Nextag&zmam=17172995&zmas=1&zmac=2&zmap=28746


Thanks, I may have to start looking into a hydrolyzed RX diet. This may be what Nova needs, even though I need to get over the "prescription diets are the devil" thing. Marley was put on a prescription diet after she went into acute renal failure, and she lost all of her spark. She gained weight, was grumpy and irritable and nervous, and she wasn't active at all. I took her off of the prescription diet after a year or two of being on it and she's like a brand new dog - full of life and happiness. I suppose I just need to remember that every dog is different, and that what may work for one might not work for the other and vice versa. What may have slowed Marley down may bring Nova back to life.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

CoverTune said:


> I'm part of a natural rearing group on Facebook and this is a copy of one of the documents that has been compiled in the group regarding allergies. Any questions.. I suggest joining the group. =)
> 
> 
> _Allergies, Allergies, Allergies!
> ...


Thank you for this info. Looking at the symptoms, Nova has all of them - she has even developed a bump by her eye that has been around for weeks now. I have no idea what it is, but I wonder if her allergies caused it. She also has a bad smell to her that I just can't explain. She has had her allergy symptoms ever since we got her at 4 months old, so I was thinking they could be attributed to poor breeding (she is a cross-breed) or vaccinosis (I don't know when she received her first or second puppy shots).

As per your tips:
1 – Feed a species appropriate diet - we are trying all we can to find a diet that works for her.
2 – Boost the immune system with a good probiotic (we use Primal Defense Ultra) and Bovine colostrums to boost and support the immune system - we use Mercola probiotcs. I never thought of colostrum. Thank you!
3 – Avoid vaccines as allergies are a common symptom of vaccinosis - she has only had her puppy shots, and we will be using titers from now on.
4 – Use natural products in the home and yard as repeated exposure to chemical weakens and eventually destroys the proper immune response - I only clean the house with vinegar, baking soda, and water. For laundry, I use an natural hypoallergenic detergent and I never use bleach. We do not use any chemicals in the yard. I vacuum every day and wash her bedding twice a week. 
5 – Dr. Bonners of other mild, chemical free shampoo should be used. - We only bathe her with Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe Totally Natural Pet Shampoo
6 – Avoid plastic feeding bowls - all of our bowls are stainless steel and I wash them twice a day.
7 – Avoid flea topical and other pestisides, conventional wormers and any un necessary medications. Anti biotics, steroids, etc damage and inhibit proper immune function and damage the gut. - Unfortunately, due to her immunity being low, she gets a lot of infections and was getting a lot of antibiotics before we began taking her to the holistic vet, so that's not good at all  She has also been dewormed as a young pup.Otherwise she has not received or been exposed to anything on your list.

Thank you for all of your herb suggestions as well.  If you can think of anything else we can do to help her, please let me know, as I truly just want her to feel better and any tips are greatly appreciated.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Sounds like you're definitely doing all the right things, which only makes it more frustrating! lol Hopefully some of the herbs can help offer some relief..


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

CoverTune said:


> Sounds like you're definitely doing all the right things, which only makes it more frustrating! lol Hopefully some of the herbs can help offer some relief..


Thank you. I sure hope so too. How do I join your FB group, if I would be able to?


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Would you be open to doing raw again, but with a novel protein, like rabbit? Or even raw lamb? Sorry, I can't remember if you tried them or not...

I really hope you guys find a solution soon  Sounds so frustrating!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Are there any holistic vets within a not-insane distance? I know someone whose cat had some bad allergies and only the holistic vet was able to help. That vet specialized in Chinese medicine, which is what ultimately helped. I don't know how to find the Canadian list of holistic vets or Chinese medicine practitioners, but it might be worth the research.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

pawsaddict said:


> Thank you. I sure hope so too. How do I join your FB group, if I would be able to?


Yep! Add me as a friend and I'll give ya the invite to the group - https://www.facebook.com/covertune


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Willowy said:


> Are there any holistic vets within a not-insane distance? I know someone whose cat had some bad allergies and only the holistic vet was able to help. That vet specialized in Chinese medicine, which is what ultimately helped. I don't know how to find the Canadian list of holistic vets or Chinese medicine practitioners, but it might be worth the research.


We actually take her to the holistic vet in our area. They are so wonderful, and I am so thankful that they are only a 20-minute drive away from our house.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Would you be open to doing raw again, but with a novel protein, like rabbit? Or even raw lamb? Sorry, I can't remember if you tried them or not...
> 
> I really hope you guys find a solution soon  Sounds so frustrating!


At this point, I would be. But I have searched and searched and I can't find any farmers/butchers/etc. selling novel proteins in my area at a price that is less than $8-$10/pound. There was one selling rabbit, but we missed the ordering deadline for the year  So I would have to do commercial raw for now....we just bought her a bag of Ziwipeak venison (a little less expensive than commercial raw, but still up there at $160 for an 11 pound bag - she will eat around 1 1/2 bags a month right now.) I keep telling myself that this has to work. After all, I didn't even know that venison was game meat from a deer, so I like to think that means it's pretty novel, lol. One concern I have with it, though, is that it seems really fatty (around 32%). The website says it's due to the low moisture content...

If the Ziwpeak doesn't mesh well with her (either with her allergies or because of the high fat content), then my hubby and I discussed that we will bite the financial bullet (seeing as we are almost paying the same price for the Ziwipeak anyways) and feed her commercial raw (probably rabbit). And thank you very much for your kind words. I hope we find something soon too.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

CoverTune said:


> Yep! Add me as a friend and I'll give ya the invite to the group - https://www.facebook.com/covertune


Thanks, I just added you (JericaAnne)!


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

pawsaddict said:


> At this point, I would be. But I have searched and searched and I can't find any farmers/butchers/etc. selling novel proteins in my area at a price that is less than $8-$10/pound. There was one selling rabbit, but we missed the ordering deadline for the year  So I would have to do commercial raw for now....we just bought her a bag of Ziwipeak venison (a little less expensive than commercial raw, but still up there at $160 for an 11 pound bag - she will eat around 1 1/2 bags a month right now.) I keep telling myself that this has to work. After all, I didn't even know that venison was game meat from a deer, so I like to think that means it's pretty novel, lol. One concern I have with it, though, is that it seems really fatty (around 32%). The website says it's due to the low moisture content...
> 
> If the Ziwpeak doesn't mesh well with her (either with her allergies or because of the high fat content), then my hubby and I discussed that we will bite the financial bullet (seeing as we are almost paying the same price for the Ziwipeak anyways) and feed her commercial raw (probably rabbit). And thank you very much for your kind words. I hope we find something soon too.


Okay good luck! Make sure not to overfeed on ZiwiPeak - it is super concentrated so it can cause explosive diarrhea!


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## jnite (Jan 18, 2009)

What province are you in? I know of a rabbit breeder in my province.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

jnite said:


> What province are you in? I know of a rabbit breeder in my province.



Don't miss this .... ^ .... ^ ...... ^

I just want to show you what the fragrance in dryer sheets did to my allergy dog. Be sure and use fragrance free dryer sheets if you use them. I did not see that on the list. Also .... I am still hoping something works .... and saying prayers for your poor pup.

Blu Boy and regular fragrance dryer sheets .... he sleeps in the bed with Dad. I had to change all the bedding and clothing and rewash everything I used the dryer sheets on. He was also chewing his paws until they bled. You can also see how the other eye was beginning to turn red.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

pawsaddict said:


> Thanks, I just added you (JericaAnne)!


Cool, I've sent the invite to the group. =)


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

jnite said:


> What province are you in? I know of a rabbit breeder in my province.


I'm in central Alberta. I found one supplier of rabbit not too long ago. It was $4/pound, but they are not accepting any new customers at this time, so I would have to buy it from a local shop (with their price markup)


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Okay good luck! Make sure not to overfeed on ZiwiPeak - it is super concentrated so it can cause explosive diarrhea!



Lol, and like Nova needs more diarrhea!


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Abbylynn said:


> Don't miss this .... ^ .... ^ ...... ^
> 
> I just want to show you what the fragrance in dryer sheets did to my allergy dog. Be sure and use fragrance free dryer sheets if you use them. I did not see that on the list. Also .... I am still hoping something works .... and saying prayers for your poor pup.
> 
> Blu Boy and regular fragrance dryer sheets .... he sleeps in the bed with Dad. I had to change all the bedding and clothing and rewash everything I used the dryer sheets on. He was also chewing his paws until they bled. You can also see how the other eye was beginning to turn red.


Oh my! I am SO sorry that the dryer sheets did that to your pup!!! It looks so painful. I hope everything has healed up well and that Blu Boy is okay!! I'm also sorry that you have an allergy pup too. It's so difficult. The other day, I just cried because I feel like I'm failing her. We don't use any dryer sheets, and we only use hypoallergenic, all-natural laundry detergent. I make all of our household cleaners too. Thank you so much for all of your kind words. I really appreciate it (you have no idea just how much).


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

pawsaddict said:


> Lol, and like Nova needs more diarrhea!


LOL yeah poor pup 

How's Nova doing?


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

I am so sorry you are having all of this trouble I truly hope you can find something that works for her.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

taquitos said:


> LOL yeah poor pup
> 
> How's Nova doing?


The Ziwipeak is really helping her. Venison is a win! Yay!!! I just wish it wasn't so expensive. I'm still on the hunt for a more cost effective solution that will still help her ($300 a month for Ziwipeak will kill me...and my tuition budget). I feel terrible about that, though. Sometimes I feel like I'm just not the right person for Nova because I can't give her everything that she needs food-wise. I do everything I can otherwise, but I just can't afford $300 a month for just Nova's food. In a year, when school is over, money won't be tight, but right now, unfortunately, it is. I feel like I'm making her health worse. I would never want to give Nova up (NEVER EVER), but when I see her hurting, it breaks my heart and I wonder if I am being selfish.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Damon'sMom said:


> I am so sorry you are having all of this trouble I truly hope you can find something that works for her.


Thank you so much, Damon'sMom. I really appreciate all of your support.


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## Echofox (Mar 13, 2013)

Have you considered a dehydrated/freeze dried food like Grandma Lucy's. They have rabbit, goat, lamb, pork, venison. The pork figures out to cost $1.07 lb. The most expensive one, bison $1.94 lb.
Their Pureformance formulas have no potatos and of course they have pre-mixes that you can add whatever meat or fish you need.

I have two dogs that have different food sensitivities to mainstream dog foods. One has terrible skin reactions, the other gets chronic diarrhea, and cannot tolerate chicken products of any kind. Both of them are symptom free on GL. Sometimes I add more meat, depending on what I can get a good price on.

Go to Grandma Lucy's site and read up on it, then order from Chewy.com. (much better prices).
Made in USA. All meats are hormone and antibiotic free. 

I apologize if you have already tried this and I missed it,, I just thought out was worth mentioning as it looks expensive at first until you realize how long it lasts and how far it goes. It is so much better for my dogs than the premium foods that I was spending close to $3.00 or more per pound on.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

pawsaddict said:


> The Ziwipeak is really helping her. Venison is a win! Yay!!! I just wish it wasn't so expensive. I'm still on the hunt for a more cost effective solution that will still help her ($300 a month for Ziwipeak will kill me...and my tuition budget). I feel terrible about that, though. Sometimes I feel like I'm just not the right person for Nova because I can't give her everything that she needs food-wise. I do everything I can otherwise, but I just can't afford $300 a month for just Nova's food. In a year, when school is over, money won't be tight, but right now, unfortunately, it is. I feel like I'm making her health worse. I would never want to give Nova up (NEVER EVER), but when I see her hurting, it breaks my heart and I wonder if I am being selfish.


Yeah I totally get you! ZiwiPeak is a wallet killer for bigger dogs. Would it be possible for you to find a venison ranch or something where you can buy whole venison from them and do raw? It would probably be less expensive than ZiwiPeak.

At least you found something that works, though! Does your store have a customer loyalty card? I know that ZiwiPeak has one where if you spend over $x you get a free bag of treats and also $20 off at the end of the card. Most people who buy big bags get $20 off every other bag (especially with venison!).


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Yeah I totally get you! ZiwiPeak is a wallet killer for bigger dogs. Would it be possible for you to find a venison ranch or something where you can buy whole venison from them and do raw? It would probably be less expensive than ZiwiPeak.
> 
> At least you found something that works, though! Does your store have a customer loyalty card? I know that ZiwiPeak has one where if you spend over $x you get a free bag of treats and also $20 off at the end of the card. Most people who buy big bags get $20 off every other bag (especially with venison!).


My hubby actually decided that he was going to get into hunting. He's always wanted to do it, and now he has a really good reason to start. He passed his hunting exam and is going to try and get a deer this year (he's military, so I'm hoping he'll be successful at this, haha).


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## neerofredrich (Jul 25, 2013)

hey, if you are worrying pertaining on your pets don't you worry coz international shipping services would bring your lovely pets on moving process.


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