# Hot words turning into touchy topics...



## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

I've been beginning to notice some hot words that will lead to touchy topics on this forum - where the thread will start out completely innocent until someone either by accident or by intention includes a single word to drive the topic into overload.

Has anyone noticed this?

A few off the top of my head:
punishment, pit bull, litter of puppies, spay/neuter, separation anxiety, breeder

We ought to just have stickied debate threads rather than ending up in the same debate over and over again.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

So, by default, since you mentioned ALL of the above words, this thread will also become a debate


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Hahaha I didn't think about that. I think since I didn't give context as to my opinion on any of those words, it'll be ok


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## Pynzie (Jan 15, 2010)

A sticky isn't going to stop debates from happening. If the OP mentions that he is planning on breeding his pit bull who he trains by alpha rolling her which he learned from Cesar, we aren't going to direct him to the debate stickies. You know we are going to tell him why all of these things are not ok. In this particular example I don't think anyone would debate why he shouldn't breed or alpha roll his dog, but a debate would come up on how posters chose to educate the poster. We know it's going to happen every time - some are going to be more blunt (taken as rude by other members and the OP), the OP isn't going to like it, and someone is going to say that the members were too mean or whatever and it's going to start. 

In another example, like if a poster is asking about cropping her dogs ears, again, we probably aren't going to end up directing her to some cropping thread (we already have a bunch that she could have searched herself) but rather we are probably going to give her our individual opinions, which starts a debate between posters. It's pretty much unavoidable; we are going to debate each other's responses to the OP because we have differing opinions on either what the advice should be, or how the advice should be given.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I find these types of threads sort of humorous. I also find people take internet forums WAY too seriously. 

This is a dog forum and mostly it is entertainment, tho I have learned (and hopefully helped other learn) things. People do get their drawers in a bunch sometimes. And there are posters who are routinely dramatic and looking for attention (not for answers) and others who rather fraudulent (and some who are both). 

There are topics that get people worked up mostly because it is about dogs and the people here care a lot for dogs. 

Here is the thing. Most of the ppl on this forum do not know each other personally. Most of the ppl on this forum will NEVER know each other personally. Never have a face 2 face conversation (I have been on forums where the people all do know each other Face 2 face and they get weird). We are not friends. We are not acquaintances. We are posters on a Dog Forum. We know each other by our ability to type and convey thoughts thru the vehicle of writing.

I find the debates entertaining. When I do not find them entertaining, I don't go on them.


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## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

Its rare that anyone ever reads the stickies without being told to do so in a thread - assuming they ever end up reading them at all.

Having more stickies isn't going to solve the problem of people thinking that their issue is more important than anyone else's or that their situation has never happened before to anyone ever in the history of this forum.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

*reads the stickies*

*is also routinely dramatic...especially in those first few weeks...*


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Debating really isn't that bad of a thing. What is bad is the round about arguments that go on for hours-days, where no agreement is ever going to get met, that seems a little pointless to me.

Debating is one thing, continually attacking each others opinion is another, and starting a flame war is a whole nother issue. And I don't think stickies can solve this problem.

People are passionate, when you get a bunch of passionate people in one area, there is bound to be a little heat, like the saying goes can't take the heat.....


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

lisak_87 said:


> *reads the stickies*
> 
> *is also routinely dramatic...especially in those first few weeks...*


Your drama was not a routine cry for attention.. it was more a desparate plea for help because you got a puppy and then were thinking OMG WHAT have I gotten myself INTO???!!! Altho the talk about getting rid of Brady was a bit over the top.. but he changed your mind. LOL



ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Debating really isn't that bad of a thing. What is bad is the round about arguments that go on for hours-days, where no agreement is ever going to get met, that seems a little pointless to me.
> 
> Debating is one thing, continually attacking each others opinion is another, and starting a flame war is a whole nother issue. And I don't think stickies can solve this problem.
> 
> People are passionate, when you get a bunch of passionate people in one area, there is bound to be a little heat, like the saying goes can't take the heat.....


This. If the argument goes in circles, step out of the track.. not like we are dogs on a chain and all we have is that circle. 

If someone is attacking I still don't get being real upset. So what? Turn the 'puter off and go do something else.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

Oh I still talk about getting rid of Brady.

Generally when he gets the zoomies. I pet my cat and go "why didn't we just get another cat..." 

But then my cat wakes me up at 4AM by sitting on my head and yowling...and I remember that he's a handful too.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I dunno. I think the debates and the insanely off-topic turns the threads can make are half the fun of this forum. I've been on forums where the mods shut down anything that gets heated or even a little off-topic, and they're just no fun at all. If you don't want to jump in the fray, then don't.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Things don't get touchy until an anteater has been thrown into the fray.

Then, they get all warm and fuzzy...


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Willowy said:


> I dunno. I think the debates and the insanely off-topic turns the threads can make are half the fun of this forum. I've been on forums where the mods shut down anything that gets heated or even a little off-topic, and they're just no fun at all. If you don't want to jump in the fray, then don't.


I've been on lots of forums like this. I've been banned from several forums, and all I did was get in a debate with someone! I hate it when the mods need to show how much power they have and shut down threads and ban members 'just because they can'.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

Elana55 said:


> Here is the thing. Most of the ppl on this forum do not know each other personally. Most of the ppl on this forum will NEVER know each other personally. Never have a face 2 face conversation (I have been on forums where the people all do know each other Face 2 face and they get weird). We are not friends. We are not acquaintances. We are posters on a Dog Forum. We know each other by our ability to type and convey thoughts thru the vehicle of writing.
> QUOTE]
> 
> We're not friends? :hurt: I'm crushed.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Willowy said:


> I dunno. I think the debates and the insanely off-topic turns the threads can make are half the fun of this forum. I've been on forums where the mods shut down anything that gets heated or even a little off-topic, and they're just no fun at all. If you don't want to jump in the fray, then don't.


Agreed! It's a _discussion_ forum, where people discuss things. And of course each and every one of our personal opinions is 100% correct and so we need to illuminate the rest of the ignorant masses on the internet about their badwrongness.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

You betcha! 

(We still need better smilies. How can we possibly convey to people the depth of their badwrongness without the appropriate emoticons? Hmph. But at least we have anteaters)


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Willowy said:


> You betcha!
> 
> (We still need better smilies. How can we possibly convey to people the depth of their badwrongness without the appropriate emoticons? Hmph. But at least we have anteaters)


I do have to say... no matter how many times I see that anteater it makes me LOL.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> And there are posters who are routinely dramatic and looking for attention (not for answers) and others who rather fraudulent (and some who are both).


There are also people who are routinely rude to others because the poster they're responding to doesn't react to something they way they would, which is apparently an issue. They're being "dramatic" or "looking for attention" when all they really need is support. Why do people even open threads they KNOW will be "filled with drama" if it bothers them so much?



> We are not friends. We are not acquaintances. We are posters on a Dog Forum


YOU may feel that way, but I most certainly DO NOT (and many others also do not)! There are quite a few people on this forum that I know personally, and many more I know I will meet. And even though I will NOT meet some of them, they are no less friends to me than the people I've met in person.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Xeph said:


> There are also people who are routinely rude to others because the poster they're responding to doesn't react to something they way they would, which is apparently an issue. They're being "dramatic" or "looking for attention" when all they really need is support. Why do people even open threads they KNOW will be "filled with drama" if it bothers them so much?
> 
> 
> YOU may feel that way, but I most certainly DO NOT (and many others also do not)! There are quite a few people on this forum that I know personally, and many more I know I will meet. And even though I will NOT meet some of them, they are no less friends to me than the people I've met in person.


Hit a nerve????? 

I like Turtles.. 

..and Anteaters.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Not saying I don't like debates  I do. I just think it'd be nice to have a debate thread to expend that energy rather than have it split across unrelated threads. Not saying they can't happen in lots of threads, nor that we need to redirect people to them. But that way these hot issues can have a home.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Pynzie said:


> A sticky isn't going to stop debates from happening. If the OP mentions that he is planning on breeding his pit bull who he trains by alpha rolling her which he learned from Cesar, we aren't going to direct him to the debate stickies. You know we are going to tell him why all of these things are not ok. In this particular example I don't think anyone would debate why he shouldn't breed or alpha roll his dog, but a debate would come up on how posters chose to educate the poster. We know it's going to happen every time - some are going to be more blunt (taken as rude by other members and the OP), the OP isn't going to like it, and someone is going to say that the members were too mean or whatever and it's going to start.


The thing is, some things may have been debated many times, but some people may still wish to discuss them or voice opinion. If that's the case (and the thread topic is clearly defined) it's a pretty easy thing to pass by that thread if you feel you've said all you have to say, or the subject no longer interests you.


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

I don't think I've ever been on a forum that didn't have debates that at one time or another turned into flames. Many people naturally can't put aside their emotions and be 100% logical when discussing something controversial so it's inevitable that people will get into fights. That's what moderators are for.

Some people can't stand heat and opposition in a discussion without getting upset. Just because someone has strong opinions against yours doesn't mean they are looking to fight you personally. Bashing ideas against each other is how you test their strength and learn more.

If I feel a thread in any forum is getting too personal for people to handle, I just don't participate... I don't see the point in trying to "feel right on the internet". You may feel differently!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

And some posters are extremely passive-aggressive, LOL.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

I actually appreciate the debates on this forum. If it wasn't for some of the debates that have happened here, I wouldn't have a reason to question my current opinions, and I'd be stuck with the same opinions I started out with. Even if it's a reoccurring debate topic, it's still another opportunity to get some perspective. It may even be the first chance a new member has been exposed to the other side's reasoning. I don't think it would be as helpful if all of the debates were in sticky threads, because we'd never be able to learn something new from them. And if you're tired of debating about a certain topic, you know there's always the option of just NOT clicking on the thread. 

Unfortunately taking things too personally is a common side effect of those debates, lol.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

While some posts are almost, but not quite, entirely _unlike_ anything one could wish to share and enjoy between friends (as they rather resemble baiting), I think we can all agree that the majority of DF posters may be classified as Mostly Harmless.

Whatever you do, just remember: DON'T PANIC


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Shaina said:


> I think we can all agree that the majority of DF posters may be classified as Mostly Harmless.
> Whatever you do, just remember: DON'T PANIC


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

LOL Shaina


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Debates are fun. If I find a debate starting to turn not-so-fun, I leave. And personally, I often enjoy being flamed. I laughed for five minutes last month when that woman said I was a horrible person who sat on the Internet all day thinking up ways to insult people (paraphrasing, but that was the general idea) and that she was praying for me at church.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

sassafras said:


> And some posters are extremely passive-aggressive, LOL.


:bounce:



Shaina said:


> While some posts are almost, but not quite, entirely _unlike_ anything one could wish to share and enjoy between friends (as they rather resemble baiting), I think we can all agree that the majority of DF posters may be classified as Mostly Harmless.
> 
> Whatever you do, just remember: DON'T PANIC


:fear::faint:

:cheer2:


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I think RBark just panicked.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

sassafras said:


> I think RBark just panicked.


No, it was a typo. I swear!


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## patcurt (Mar 12, 2011)

I was just going to post about separation anxiety. Yes I have read the stickies, but now am afraid to. I did not realize it was a HOT topic. I really, really do not want to start any problems. (I would add a smiley face but don't know how!)


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)




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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

lil_fuzzy said:


> I've been on lots of forums like this. I've been banned from several forums, and all I did was get in a debate with someone! I hate it when the mods need to show how much power they have and shut down threads and ban members 'just because they can'.


Oh my freakin' God, THIS! I was banned from another forum because some doofus with an authority complex got angry at me for telling him his luck was going to run out if he continued underestimating the strength of dogs and wildlife (he was claiming he had beaten up pitbulls and other dogs that had tried to kill him in the past with his bare hands and that wild animals like deer, bears, snakes etc. were just as easy as a "boot to the head" and anyone could do it). The funny thing about this is for once I was actually really respectful and careful about the way I worded it. His only reason for banning me was because I was calling him on his stupidity instead of kissing his ass like everyone else.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Awww I thought a debate thread would be fun.... Spoil sports 







And I'm not a n00b


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> And I'm not a n00b


Technically you are, as you've only been here three months, but I think CP meant patcurt.

I could be wrong though.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Technically you are, as you've only been here three months, but I think CP meant patcurt.
> 
> I could be wrong though.


I thought that made me a newb not a n00b  and either way my senior title trumps my forum DOB


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> and either way my senior title trumps my forum DOB


I don't think so, but others might, lo (it's a general matter of opinion)l. n00b and newb and the same to me.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Xeph said:


> I don't think so, but others might, lo (it's a general matter of opinion)l. n00b and newb and the same to me.


I always thought a newb was a new person and a n00b was someone who knew better but was acting like they are new. But I'd rather have been called your version of newb than mine lol


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## patcurt (Mar 12, 2011)

I am sure N00B was directed at me! Hoping it just means newbie and not something worse. Because I really was serious about posting Really


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

CP posts a lot of images as jokes  I'm sure he didn't mean anything negative by it.

Usually he posts pictures of anteaters xD


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

C: yeah I'm just havin' a laugh


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## Independent George (Mar 26, 2009)

Pffft. I'm WAY ahead of you on this one.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

cynster said:


> We ought to just have stickied debate threads rather than ending up in the same debate over and over again.


Stickies are intended to be a reference for frequently asked questions. Usually they are closed when they start to wander.



lil_fuzzy said:


> I hate it when the mods need to show how much power they have and shut down threads and ban members 'just because they can'.


Yeh, those damned, power-hungry bullies!





patcurt said:


> I am sure N00B was directed at me! Hoping it just means newbie and not something worse. Because I really was serious about posting Really


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Hahaha that was hilarious! This forum tends to get the casual driveby trolls. There are some trolls that are actually out to destroy forums and start forum flame wars- like if a rival dog forum member came to this forum to pit everyone against each other. That used to happen a lot back-in-the-day. The worst part is they scripted thousands of spam members to destroy my hotmail account 

Oh, I'm sorry Patcurt! I missed your post! I think it was just a joke


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

sassafras said:


> LOL Shaina


I couldn't help myself, given the day, and this thread seemed to be in dire need of some real D.A. 

hehe



RBark said:


> :fear::faint:
> 
> :cheer2:


I have no idea what to make of this lol


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I like a good debate. We're talking about dogs. There are a lot gray areas and room for it. I think things tend to go sour when BAD information gets passed around, or when a member takes something and runs the wrong way with it. I have personally been accused of being rude on this forum, which is always hilarious to me in a way. I HATE tone arguments and when people insist my tone is a certain way. There is no tone. I'm typing. And trust me, I do not physical get worked up about things and can only think of two incidents relating this board that have actually infuriated me. My boyfriend's late father always said I was not one to mince words, and I think a lot of people have a problem with directness. Either being direct or having someone be direct with them. 

Lest you are being blatantly ignorant or speak badly of one of my dogs, I am chill with every one. There are posters on this forum that I have referred to in speak and say "My friend ____" and I have met boarders and hope to meet more.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

I don't know... I don't like your tone about BAD information >.> What are you hinting at? Are you trying to say something you're not typing?!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm just running my fingers!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Lest you are being blatantly ignorant or speak badly of one of my dogs, I am chill with every one. There are posters on this forum that I have referred to in speak and say "My friend ____" and I have met boarders and hope to meet more.


Same here, although I've not had the pleasure of meeting any of you yet. Hopefully one day I will.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Same here, although I've not had the pleasure of meeting any of you yet. Hopefully one day I will.


Well, it's pretty sad I live in Michigan but have never ventured up to Canada! I have a long time friend who lives up there, so hopefully one day Jonas and I will be there.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Well, it's pretty sad I live in Michigan but have never ventured up to Canada! I have a long time friend who lives up there, so hopefully one day Jonas and I will be there.


Well then it's high time you got your little but down here!  Except even if you did, Manitoba is rarely anyone's first choice of places to visit in Canada, sigh. Which is a pity, it's really very beautiful, we have one of the best beaches in North America, great festivals, a world renowned ballet company, the list goes on. 

Where does your friend live?


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

sassafras said:


> ... badwrongness....


This thread totally worth it just for this one word.



cynster said:


> Not saying I don't like debates  I do. I just think it'd be nice to have a debate thread to expend that energy rather than have it split across unrelated threads. Not saying they can't happen in lots of threads, nor that we need to redirect people to them. But that way these hot issues can have a home.


I likes a little choas in my Internets. The randomness keeps it interesting. Please stop trying to organize it! 



ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Well, it's pretty sad I live in Michigan but have never ventured up to Canada! I have a long time friend who lives up there, so hopefully one day Jonas and I will be there.


Where I live, Canada is actually southeast of me so "up" in reference to Canada and MI is a relative thing. Although....us SE MI folk refer to everything as "up north," as in "I'm goin' up north this weekend. U?" Even though "up north" is technically sideways (where you are) or south or, sometimes, AACK, EAST!!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Well then it's high time you got your little but down here!  Except even if you did, Manitoba is rarely anyone's first choice of places to visit in Canada, sigh. Which is a pity, it's really very beautiful, we have one of the best beaches in North America, great festivals, a world renowned ballet company, the list goes on.
> 
> Where does your friend live?


She is from Ottawa, but lives in Toronto. I have never met her, but we've been internet friends for TEN years. Met on Livejournal, email each other constantly, and when Facebook rolled around we got on there. I have another Canadian friend that is the same story but she lives in New Brunswick. I would love to go up there and meet all my Canadian friends.



winniec777 said:


> Where I live, Canada is actually southeast of me so "up" in reference to Canada and MI is a relative thing. Although....us SE MI folk refer to everything as "up north," as in "I'm goin' up north this weekend. U?" Even though "up north" is technically sideways (where you are) or south or, sometimes, AACK, EAST!!


Why, I didn't know you lived in Michigan! I'm in south west Michigan and every thing I say is "up" or "down" and if it's side ways? Over, lol.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> She is from Ottawa, but lives in Toronto. I have never met her, but we've been internet friends for TEN years. Met on Livejournal, email each other constantly, and when Facebook rolled around we got on there. I have another Canadian friend that is the same story but she lives in New Brunswick. I would love to go up there and meet all my Canadian friends.


Sounds like it's time for a Canadian tour!  I'm actually going to be in Ottawa and Montreal at the end of June.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Sounds like it's time for a Canadian tour!  I'm actually going to be in Ottawa and Montreal at the end of June.


Montreal is on my list of places to go if I ever get the travel bug. Both of my Canadian friends have been in Michigan but never alerted me because they didn't know where they were was in relation to where I was. Jerks! xD


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Well, Hey, June 27 would be the perfect time for you to visit Montreal then!


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

winniec777 said:


> I likes a little choas in my Internets. The randomness keeps it interesting. Please stop trying to organize it!


Chaos? On the Internetz? Nevar!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

No need to travel. I am building the DF compound.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Yeah, you have to be old or really like old movies like I do to know what "Iwishandwishagain" means - reference to an old Irving Berlin song from one of my favorite movies, _Easter Parade_. Hard to be from Michigan and not like that song!






I like "over" for sideways. That could work for Canada because, like, it's another country. Kalamazoo is still "up north," though, in spite of what Google Earth is telling me.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> No need to travel. I am building the DF compound.


But where will this compound be?


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Winnie, I'm from Detroit. Too ghetto for Judy Garland.  

I have not figured out location yet, but I am working on it.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> I have not figured out location yet, but I am working on it.


'cause I'd love to be part of this compound, but I don't think I can leave Canada. Maybe you could build it straddling the US/Canada border, LOL.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Test: How do you say "Detroit." DEE-troit. Or Deh-TROIT.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

winniec777 said:


> Test: How do you say "Detroit." DEE-troit. Or Deh-TROIT.


Deh-troit. I actually have a video of me reading words that give away your accent and it's SO bad. x.x


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Ok you pass, but Judy is still the bomb.  Michigan accents are a riot - so much variation. 

Is such a video available on, oh, something like youtube??


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I had no idea my accent was so bad until I read the words for a forum and every one laughed at me! 

Let me see if I can find them. There are swears, though. I was cursing at my boyfriend for making fun of me. He really likes how I say "roof" and "milk"


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Wisconsin accents are even better xD Especially when people automatically expect you to sound like a yooper.



> "roof" and "milk"


Are you one of those freaks that says "ruhf" and "melk"? xD


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Xeph said:


> Are you one of those freaks that says "ruhf" and "melk"? xD


 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-QVvvDSycY

I have two other videos of my accent read but they are.. not appropriate. I haven't watched this in a long time but I know I call my boyfrien some bad words. ;D You can obviously go through my youtube and watch if you feel so inclined.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Wisconsin accents are even better xD Especially when people automatically expect you to sound like a yooper.
> 
> 
> Are you one of those freaks that says "ruhf" and "melk"? xD


My mom is from Minnesota (So am I but I moved around a lot as a kid and have a much more neutral accent) and she says "melk" "pellow" and "vuh-nella" and it bothers me so much, lol! Northern accents are hilarious, though. I kind of have a weird non-specific accent where I say certain words pretty oddly (At least all the Texans around me think so) and I don't know where I picked it up, for instance, I say "kindy-garden" for "kindergarden," and "el-ah-MENT-ar-ee" for "elementary."


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I say elementary el ah men tree


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Xeph said:


> I say elementary el ah men tree


Sometimes I drop the "t" and say "el-ah-MEN-arr-ee" What accent is this? Lol.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Accents are so weird. I just don't use R's at the end or middle of words. And I put them on words they don't belong.

Over=ovah. Petsmart= Petsmaht car=cah

Idea= idear


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

LoMD13 said:


> Idea= idear


I think my fingers my have an accent. I don't say "idear" but I frequently accidentally type it, lol!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

My boyfriend says I sound like I'm form Minnesota more than anything. I have never been to Minnesota, lol.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Lo....are you from Bahstun?


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> My boyfriend says I sound like I'm form Minnesota more than anything. I have never been to Minnesota, lol.


I'm from Minnesota and you sounded pretty Minnesotan to me, lol! I've never been to Michigan, though, so I have no idea what the typical accent is like over there. I just figured Northern Mid-Westerners all sounded alike.

ETA: I love how this thread filled with hot topic fire starters is now about regional accents instead of some heated debate, lol.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Accents are odd...I grew up in the mid midwest which supposedly has a sort of "neutral" accent, but spent about seven years working daily with folks from NY & Boston, and also spent time up in MN then working with MN/ND/upper WI folks for the last three years...so while my default accent is the same I tend to unconsciously throw the occasion NE/Yiddish/north Midwest word/phrase/pronunciation in there...


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> No need to travel. I am building the DF compound.


I can't wait to move in, get the hair color & shears ready!



Xeph said:


> Lo....are you from Bahstun?


I moved to NH from western NY. I quickly found out they pahk the cah and go to the potty (park the car and go to the party).


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## Polywoggy (Mar 7, 2011)

There is no "r" in the middle of "foyer".  Your boyfriend shouldn't make fun.
I think it peculiar when people insist that there is a Canadian accent. There are some regional ones, but no overall Canadian accent. I do not say "aboot" instead of "about" (though some of my relatives in N.S. likely do).
My speech is as bland and unflavoured as a news anchor's.
I wish spellcheck would accept my "u" in certain words though...


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Lo....are you from Bahstun?


Yep! south of Boston actually, almost everybody from Boston to RI has at least some of the accent.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Nargle said:


> ETA: I love how this thread filled with hot topic fire starters is now about regional accents instead of some heated debate, lol.


THAT is why this forum is teh awesome. A lot of other forums, the mods would come stomping in blowing their whistles (metaphorically ) "keep it on topic, suckers! This is your second warning! Or the ban hammer falls!". No fun at all. The mods here are terrific .

I think I have a Minne-soh-tah accent now. When I first moved here I was accused of having a British accent--I _know_ I never had a British accent, although we did use British slang and otherwise had a generally British manner about us, because Japan is largely Anglicized--but now I'm pretty sure I've got some mix of mid-midwest neutral + Minne-soh-tah accent (evidently I say "boat" funny). I need to find a list like TWAB's and give it a try.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Elana55 said:


> .
> 
> We are not friends. We are not acquaintances. We are posters on a Dog Forum. We know each other by our ability to type and convey thoughts thru the vehicle of writing.


And yet I've seen people here fund raise thousands of dollars for total strangers to get their dogs surgery, help members get back home when they were stranded and reach out with more compassion than I ever thought possible for people who they've never met. We've oooh'd and aaah'd over well bred puppies and grieved together when a much loved member's dog or family member has passed. If we know someone that lives in a region that get's hit by a natural disaster we 'look' or them and make sure they're safe. Not Friends? Sorry you feel that way.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Willowy said:


> I think I have a Minne-soh-tah accent now. When I first moved here I was accused of having a British accent--I _know_ I never had a British accent, although we did use British slang and otherwise had a generally British manner about us, because Japan is largely Anglicized--but now I'm pretty sure I've got some mix of mid-midwest neutral + Minne-soh-tah accent (evidently I say "boat" funny). I need to find a list like TWAB's and give it a try.


The word that gives a Minnesota accent away the worst is the word MinneSOAHtah itself. 

My "out's" are pretty Minnesotan... about is the worst, not quite aboot though.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> And yet I've seen people here fund raise thousands of dollars for total strangers to get their dogs surgery, help members get back home when they were stranded and reach out with more compassion than I ever thought possible for people who they've never met. We've oooh'd and aaah'd over well bred puppies and grieved together when a much loved member's dog or family member has passed. If we know someone that lives in a region that get's hit by a natural disaster we 'look' or them and make sure they're safe. Not Friends? Sorry you feel that way.


I have to agree with this. This forum including you Elana, helped me with dealing with Carter when everyone else in the world turned away. You may be thousands of miles away from me, but the words your brought to me helped me through a time where I couldn't have gotten through alone. Everyone held me as I put Carter down, and finally made me feel better for what I had to do. I wouldn't be who I was today without my FRIENDS here. We all may never see eye to eye, but I would trust many of the members here with Nubs over even my family. When Nubs needed ACL repair, a few of the members here pitched in, even though I never posted here about it. They saw it on my Facebook page and helped out. I never expected anyone to do it, and I spent that night crying when I hit the goal needed to do Nubs surgery. 

We may all be "strangers" because we have never met in person but some of my best friends have some from online. Back in the day, really over 10 years ago I ran a website that was for helping teens get through their teen years. I have some great friends that I've met from there, 10 years later and we talk quite often even being far away. One of my closest friends live in Florida and we met on a Video Game 6 years ago. At one point they lost their jobs and my boyfriend and I sent money, food, clothing for their kids and they've done the same back when we started having rough times.

You can hide yourself online yes, but I also believe you find out more about a person online as well if they are willing and always truthful from the beginning. I know secerets about friends that they wouldn't have said in person and it's helped me help them later in life. So yeah, we may never meet, but many of you I conciser good friends. In fact I think my Facebook is most of friends I've met online... Ones that I know I can trust.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> In fact I think my Facebook is most of friends I've met online... Ones that I know I can trust.


Agreed. I met my HUSBAND on the internet for cripes sakes ^_^


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Well,I my friends speak the queens english 

Carla that was really nicely put.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Polywoggy said:


> I think it peculiar when people insist that there is a Canadian accent. There are some regional ones, but no overall Canadian accent. I do not say "aboot" instead of "about" (though some of my relatives in N.S. likely do).


People here don't really say "aboot." I find that most Ontarians I know say something that sounds more like "aboat" than anything. There is a specific PEI accent that I can't really explain, but it belongs mostly to the older generation.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, I think the Minnesota accent also makes it sound like "aboat". But then we say boat funny anyway so. . .


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

When I moved from Virginia Beach to Tiffin, OH in 8th grade I had a teacher that told me I had a lovely Virginian accent. I was so confused by that comment for the longest time, because I think VA Beach is like the least accented place I've ever live in. But now I'm pretty sure she was commenting on how "non-regional" I sounded. Tiffin is the land of "warshing" dishes, shingling "ruffs" and drinking "soda pop" or just "pop" and resting on "pellows". In Virginia we said soda, and pop was kind of a weird thing old people called it. Or that was my perception at 12 years old, lol.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You know what I love about "Yooper" accents (whether they be from MN, WI, or MI?). The reversal of words.

A yooper doesn't say "My cousin drives a truck for a living." They say "My cousin, well he drives truck, ya know".


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

RCloud said:


> Oh my freakin' God, THIS! I was banned from another forum because some doofus with an authority complex got angry at me for telling him his luck was going to run out if he continued underestimating the strength of dogs and wildlife (he was claiming he had beaten up pitbulls and other dogs that had tried to kill him in the past with his bare hands and that wild animals like deer, bears, snakes etc. were just as easy as a "boot to the head" and anyone could do it). The funny thing about this is for once I was actually really respectful and careful about the way I worded it. His only reason for banning me was because I was calling him on his stupidity instead of kissing his ass like everyone else.


I think that I read that thread on that forum! I recognize your username and the phase a "boot to the head"! lol



kafkabeetle said:


> When I moved from Virginia Beach to Tiffin, OH in 8th grade I had a teacher that told me I had a lovely Virginian accent. I was so confused by that comment for the longest time, because I think VA Beach is like the least accented place I've ever live in. But now I'm pretty sure she was commenting on how "non-regional" I sounded. Tiffin is the land of "warshing" dishes, shingling "ruffs" and drinking "soda pop" or just "pop" and resting on "pellows". In Virginia we said soda, and pop was kind of a weird thing old people called it. Or that was my perception at 12 years old, lol.


I hate it when people say "warshing". I always mentally correct them in my head. LOL Although, I will admit that I do call soda "Pop".


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Soda is soda doggone it.

Who here that is NOT from Wisconsin knows what a bubbler is? xD


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

It sounds so weird to me when I hear Americans call pop soda. No one in Canada calls it soda, it's pop! lol


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I grew up in NY where it was pop. I live in NH now and it's soda!


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Xeph said:


> Soda is soda doggone it.
> 
> Who here that is NOT from Wisconsin knows what a bubbler is? xD


I am from Iowa & I know what a bubbler is!


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Kuma'sMom said:


> It sounds so weird to me when I hear Americans call pop soda. No one in Canada calls it soda, it's pop! lol


I should just go live in Canada then ...Soda just sounds...wrong. I'm from SE Ohio and the only people that call it "Soda" are people who moved here from somewhere else. People from around this area call it "Pop". But then again, people from here also insist on calling a "washer" a "warsher". I've also heard people use the word "flustrated" (combining Flustered and Frustrated). I heard my boyfriend say it a few times and was like WTH is THAT?!? I finally trained it out of him. I've heard people claim that its really a word, but I refuse to accept it. lol


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I have always known it as soda


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I get annoyed when people say "Supposibly" or "supposively" (the correct word is supposedly), but that's an entirely different thread.

Although for the record, things are obvious, not "odvious".


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Mdawn said:


> I've also heard people use the word "flustrated" (combining Flustered and Frustrated). I heard my boyfriend say it a few times and was like WTH is THAT?!? I finally trained it out of him. I've heard people claim that its really a word, but I refuse to accept it. lol


My boyfriend says "fustrated" and it bothers the heck out of me, lol! It's "f*R*ustrated!"


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Anyone else ever heard "zink" instead of sink?...I think it might be an Eastern Iowa thing.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Nargle said:


> My boyfriend says "fustrated" and it bothers the heck out of me, lol! It's "f*R*ustrated!"


Constant correction is the key to training it out of them. It worked for my boyfriend. Whenever he'd say "flustrated", I'd IMMEDIATELY interrupt and correct. He never says it anymore...unless he's trying to annoy me. However, the downside to this method is that whenever YOU mispronounce something, they will jump at the chance to correct YOU...so that sucks. lol


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Soda is soda doggone it.
> 
> Who here that is NOT from Wisconsin knows what a bubbler is? xD


I do! That's what we call them in MA too.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Nargle said:


> I'm from Minnesota and you sounded pretty Minnesotan to me, lol! I've never been to Michigan, though, so I have no idea what the typical accent is like over there. I just figured Northern Mid-Westerners all sounded alike.
> 
> ETA: I love how this thread filled with hot topic fire starters is now about regional accents instead of some heated debate, lol.


LOL Well I was born and raised in Michigan. East and then moved west. Apparently there is no reason for why I talk the way I do and most people don't sound like I do. Melk, pellow, etc. are pretty common Michigander accents, but the rest of mine is not.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> I should just go live in Canada then ...Soda just sounds...wrong. I'm from SE Ohio and the only people that call it "Soda" are people who moved here from somewhere else. People from around this area call it "Pop". But then again, people from here also insist on calling a "washer" a "warsher". I've also heard people use the word "flustrated" (combining Flustered and Frustrated). I heard my boyfriend say it a few times and was like WTH is THAT?!? I finally trained it out of him. I've heard people claim that its really a word, but I refuse to accept it. lol


Yeah, I've noticed that too. People who have lived in Ohio their whole lives usually call it pop in my experience. I grew up with soda and pop just sounds really old-fashioned to me.

A LOT of people say "exspecially" instead of especially. And it drives me insane. Also, my job is editing and it always astounds me how people spell certain words. I can just see their mispronounciations leading them to spell it that way (as oppsed to just sounding out the right pronounciation and getting it wrong) and it makes me squirm.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Yeah, I've noticed that too. People who have lived in Ohio their whole lives usually call it pop in my experience. I grew up with soda and pop just sounds really old-fashioned to me.


That's funny, because I grew up with pop, and soda sounds old fashioned to me, lol.


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## Wynpyp (Sep 19, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Well, it's pretty sad I live in Michigan but have never ventured up to Canada! I have a long time friend who lives up there, so hopefully one day Jonas and I will be there.


really?? you could have your way with my hair!!


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

LoMD13 said:


> I do! That's what we call them in MA too.


Lies! In MA they're called bubblahs. There are no final r sounds in MA


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Polywoggy said:


> I think it peculiar when people insist that there is a Canadian accent. There are some regional ones, but no overall Canadian accent. I do not say "aboot" instead of "about" (though some of my relatives in N.S. likely do).
> My speech is as bland and unflavoured as a news anchor's.
> I wish spellcheck would accept my "u" in certain words though...


I've spent a fair amount of time in eastern Canada up to NS & PEI and I think there is definitely an accent among a lot of English speakers. Not all, to be sure, but it's pretty common. The accent is similar but softer in BC. Haven't been to the middle of the country (but would love to go!) so don't know about there. 

It's funny you should mention the news anchor thing. We were on vacation at the very tip of Cape Breton Island. This was years ago before cable & satellite had the reach they do today. Turned on the tv and the only thing they could get was a local broadcast channel -- from Detroit! Made us laugh because we literally decided to go to eastern Canada on vacation by opening an atlas, closing our eyes and picking a place at random. The idea was to get away from everything, not to find it had followed us on tv! Loved it, though. It was so beautiful.



ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-QVvvDSycY
> 
> I have two other videos of my accent read but they are.. not appropriate. I haven't watched this in a long time but I know I call my boyfrien some bad words. ;D You can obviously go through my youtube and watch if you feel so inclined.


The video was a hoot!! Or is that a hoat?


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

I am from Philadelphia: where water = wooder.

Then I lived with someone from northern NJ for all of undergrad, basically, so I got the New Yorker coffee = cawfee and chocolate = chawcolate. 

During grad school I constantly hung out with a Canadian, so I have the aboat thing going, too. 

And soda is soda.

No one in Texas understands me 

I also apparently talk too fast.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Wynpyp said:


> really?? you could have your way with my hair!!


I hope so yes! I'd like to visit Canada anyway. 



winniec777 said:


> The video was a hoot!! Or is that a hoat?


I just said to my boyfriend "Do I say hoot weird? How does it sound? Hoot hoot hoot." and he said it sounds like I am getting punched in the stomach when I say it.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Where is he from? Not MI, right?


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## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

When I visited Florida and California something like 8 years ago, I was told "you Alaskans talk funny". Now, the thing is, *I* personally get griped at for how I talk, but my mother and sister talk "normal". Although all three of us while on vacation were told we talk weird. We aren't _Native_ Alaskans, my mother grew up here and raised my sister and myself into adulthood here. I think we walk normal except for I myself get griped at for my *ings*. 

I for whatever reason say my ings like een. for example I say kissing as kisseen, and racing as raceen, looking as lookeen. I might just be crazy. None of my family speaks that may.

My grandmother taught one of my aunts, and therefor my cousins learned to say things like

The dish waRsher,(not washer) hand my a tall (not towel) to dry off with. Will you get me a glass of Wutter (not water).


We're all nuts, I swear.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

winniec777 said:


> Where is he from? Not MI, right?


Nope, he's from Michigan. Born and raised in a town about 20 minutes from where we currently live and while I lived in Detroit I still went through middle and high school here. We sound nothing alike. My accent is a freak thing apparently.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Soda is soda doggone it.
> 
> Who here that is NOT from Wisconsin knows what a bubbler is? xD


I grew up in Illinois and know what a bubbler is because I went to camp in WI.


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## Independent George (Mar 26, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> Constant correction is the key to training it out of them. It worked for my boyfriend. Whenever he'd say "flustrated", I'd IMMEDIATELY interrupt and correct. He never says it anymore...unless he's trying to annoy me. However, the downside to this method is that whenever YOU mispronounce something, they will jump at the chance to correct YOU...so that sucks. lol


No cookie for you! What happened to R+?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Soda is soda doggone it.
> 
> Who here that is NOT from Wisconsin knows what a bubbler is? xD


I do, but only because a friend from Wisconsin told me.



Kuma'sMom said:


> It sounds so weird to me when I hear Americans call pop soda. No one in Canada calls it soda, it's pop! lol



In Oklahoma it's a "Coke", even if it is Pepsi.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

My parents grew up drinking "orange Coke", LOL. But that was in the Panama Canal Zone. I have always said soda. They say pop here, but I don't like it so I still say soda .

Growing up as a Navy brat sure makes your accent interesting. . .


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Mdawn said:


> Constant correction is the key to training it out of them. It worked for my boyfriend. Whenever he'd say "flustrated", I'd IMMEDIATELY interrupt and correct. He never says it anymore...unless he's trying to annoy me. However, the downside to this method is that whenever YOU mispronounce something, they will jump at the chance to correct YOU...so that sucks. lol


Well, it's not that easy to interrupt and correct someone who's saying "I'm not angry, I'm FUSTRATED!!!" Lol! :biggrin1:

BTW, my boyfriend has such a weird accent. He's born and raised in north central Texas, and he says think like "vokna" (vodka) and "ung-gin" (onion). I don't think that's even Texas, lol! He also does the typical Texas "pen" "pin" and "fill" "feel" sounding the same, and it's pretty odd to me since I pronounce each word very clearly!


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

winniec777 said:


> I've spent a fair amount of time in eastern Canada up to NS & PEI and I think there is definitely an accent among a lot of English speakers. Not all, to be sure, but it's pretty common. The accent is similar but softer in BC. Haven't been to the middle of the country (but would love to go!) so don't know about there.


Heh Willowy, we had orange coke too! All pop was coke. Now we call it pop. Old timers, or those wanting to be hoiti toiti call it soda.

I was born and raised (mostly) in Alberta, spending some time in Northern Ontario. I have family spread from the Maritimes to Vancouver Island, and I hear very obvious accents amongst Canadians. As my dad is from Terawna, and my cousins are from Sudbree, I find that Ontario accent the easiest to pick out. When I moved back to Alberta from Ontario as a youngster, I was teased for saying Mondee, Tuesdee etc. and I continue to pick up on that very specifically when listening to Dad's relates. The Maritimers also definately have their own thing goin' on, and they do the whole reverse sentence phrases thing as well. I love it when they say g'wan, or g'way.

Those of us from Alberta tend to have a slower pace of speech, (well actually Easterners just speak too quickly ) and I have been told Albertans have their own style of drawl. I am from Northern Alberta, and even I hear a drawl in those that are from South of Calgree. 

SOB


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

When I moved to NH from the Toledo/Detroit area (we lived and had family in both areas), someone asked me if I wanted a tonic. I thought "eew! Why would I want to drink tonic water?!"...they said, "no, soda..." I'm still thinking "OMG, I can't get a Pepsi in this place?" Finally we figured out that they were talking about "pop"! Well, why didn't you say so?? 

Then my new friends said something about me (or maybe it was my SuperBall...don't remember) being "wicked awesome". I really thought they were calling me a witch....really. I was only eight, so I got a little upset until they explained. 

I've been living here in NH for over 30 years. I speak to people from all over the country every day for my job. I get the occasional person that says "you don't sound like you're from New England....you have more of a midwest accent". I never thought the midwest HAD an accent...? Hmmm.... 

It's always fun to try to guess where someone is from by their accent. After 10 years of talking to the public, I'm getting pretty good at it. From the "Ya'll's" to the "youz" to the "yah's" - it's very interesting! =)


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## Irishman (May 13, 2011)

Well, I for one have no problem with any of those terms, and want to state right now that I have limited experience with Pitt Bulls, but every one of them I've seen has been a very good dog. Pitt Bulls are like any other dog, with the exception that they are REALLY good at fighting. Ignore a dog, abuse them, or fail to socialize them, and any dog is dangerous. A Pitt Bull just has a lot more potentional in the damage department.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

when I worked for a small grocery store in Maryland, we had a guy from new england come in and ask if we had any "Cahhhds" ... I pointed him to the fish, thinking he said "Cod"

Took me like 10 minutes and 10 billion repititions to realize he was asking for cards... "Playing Cahhds"


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Irishman....#1 you posted in the wrong thread I think. #2, It's Pit Bull, not Pitt Bull


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

This thread has me cracking up.

I have a friend who says "pole" for "pole" and "pool" She so, coal and cool sound alike as well. She has been that way as long as I can remember.

And, I am from Kentucky, so everyone thinks I have an accent BUT, I don't. No, really. I have that bland midwestern thing--as in I don't have a southern "twang." In fact, the speech around here is so bland that our version of speech is what is used in all computer operator voices and such becasue everyone can understand it. 

I do say "y'all" a lot, but, considering a giant water tower in my hometown has it emblazoned across it, I guess it is acceptable.

And, in terms of us not being friends--I guess it depends on your definition of friend. I consider a friend someone who shares your interests, gives you advice, picks you up when you are down, makes you laugh, lets you cry, rant, scream and cuss...and still likes you anyway.

That being said, I consider many of the people on this forum my friends. Sure, I have never met y'all )) in person, but I also know that if I need support, have a question or just need to vent, I can come here. When I talk to hubby about people from here who I have shared opinions and thoughts with for a while, I don't say "some random person I read on a dog forum." A lot of times I say "my friend ___________." 

In fact, I think I talk to some of you guys more than I talk to people I actually "know." At least I know if I talk about my dogs, you won't get tired of hearing it!


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

Finkie_Mom said:


> I am from Philadelphia: where water = wooder.


Hehe, yep. I was going to post that. The other thing that always makes me think of Philly is also 'jeet? meaning "Did you eat?"  Now that I live in the suburbs, I do pronounce water correctly - got made fun of for it too much - but I do still say "wooder ice" when it comes to the dessert and Philly staple. I also got teased for saying things like fire plug for fire hydrant, pavement for sidewalk and a bunch of other things that you'd think like a 5-minute drive into the 'burbs wouldn't affect that much. My suburban friends had also never been on public transportation until they were in their 20s.

I never thought my Philly accent was too bad, but one time I traveled to Vegas for work and within five mintues of talking to someone at a trade show, they said "You're from Philly, right?" I was a little mortified that it was so obvious (though I love this area and being from here). It's not like I go around saying, "yo, 'jeet?" to strangers, or ever really. Oh, youse (plural of you) is a big Philly thing too. I never say that though.

Edit: Oh and the first time I asked for a soda from my Ohio relatives, they were a bit put out since they thought I expected them to make me an ice cream soda.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

I'm from outside Philly so I don't really have an accent. I have a few words that I say Philly-style, some words PA Dutch style (dad's side), and some words York, PA style (mom's side). I do say yous, but it's kind of an affectation. My dad uses it, but I never grew up saying it. I just like it because I support a plural version of you and can't say y'all because I'm not southern.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Ah yes. I like "jeet" and pavement. There's also "Chaaaalie" for "Charlie" and "paaala" for "parlor" (which is what my Grandmother called the living room). I take out the "k" in "breakfast," and use the plural of you sometimes, however it's usually followed by "guys" - so "yous guys." I also cannot say y'all. It's not natural. 

I was told during my teacher education courses that I needed to get out of the wooder habit - it wasn't that uncommon at my undergrad, as my college is outside of Trenton and therefore relatively close to Philly. So in front of a classroom, I can say it normally, but outside of that, my brain forgets and I say wooder.


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

Finkie_Mom said:


> Ah yes. I like "jeet" and pavement. There's also "Chaaaalie" for "Charlie" and "paaala" for "parlor" (which is what my Grandmother called the living room). I take out the "k" in "breakfast," and use the plural of you sometimes, however it's usually followed by "guys" - so "yous guys." I also cannot say y'all. It's not natural.
> 
> I was told during my teacher education courses that I needed to get out of the wooder habit - it wasn't that uncommon at my undergrad, as my college is outside of Trenton and therefore relatively close to Philly. So in front of a classroom, I can say it normally, but outside of that, my brain forgets and I say wooder.


Oh really? I went to Trenton State College (now College of NJ - showing my age there ). Did you go there or some other nearby school? It's OK if you'd rather not answer.

And I don't have the dropped R habit, though my mom grew up near Girahhhd (Girard) Ave., and she yells at me for saying it wrong.


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## Irishman (May 13, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Irishman....#1 you posted in the wrong thread I think. #2, It's Pit Bull, not Pitt Bull


#1 I don't think I posted in the wrong thread. I believe one of the "hot words" from the originating post was Pit Bull. Or, if you want to be very particular about how it was typed, pit bull.
-> "punishment, *pit bull*, litter of puppies, spay/neuter, separation anxiety, breeder"

#2 I didn't run my post through spell check. Sorry.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Speaking of accents, I live in New Yawk City. I don't do it NEARLY as bad as some people here, but there are a few words that I "aww."


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## WolfyNeiviv (Apr 24, 2011)

Hmmm. When I drink I'm told I sound like I'm from Boston. But I've never been and don't physically know anyone from there. I'm in Canada and the only time I ever say 'eh' is when I'm making fun of others making fun of Canadians. I do say toque rather than 'knitted cap' and to me a skull cap is the bandana type hat a biker wears under his/her helmet rather than a nylon stocking that a 'gangster' wears.

As for hot topics - I'm fairly new here so I'm not overly aware of them. However, I enjoy debates and discussions. When they turn into heated arguments instead of logical arguments (debates) and people start attacking others, that's when I *slowly back up, turn, and run* out of the thread. I've been known on other forums to take offense when it seems as though people are attacking others for simply being ignorant and asking questions - which is why I will freely admit that 'this is what I've heard/been told' or 'I'm ignorant on this subject'. I think that if people were just more honest and would suck up pride and 'alpha' type actions - especially in a forum which is *duh duh duh* discussions ... I dunno. I just like to be transparent - if I have no idea about something, I'll say so. If I don't want opinions and just want affirmation, I'll say so (though to me that does seem stupid and ignorant of itself depending on the subject). 

I do not think that there needs to be stickies for specific debates on the hot topics. I think that, potentially, any subject can become a hot topic.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Nunyalla heerd meh tak butiffinya diyid..wood sown kynna lyk disere postis spelled...


at least sometimes....more so when im in spazz mode, i forget to restrain my inner hillbilly..


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

melaka said:


> Oh really? I went to Trenton State College (now College of NJ - showing my age there ). Did you go there or some other nearby school? It's OK if you'd rather not answer.
> 
> And I don't have the dropped R habit, though my mom grew up near Girahhhd (Girard) Ave., and she yells at me for saying it wrong.


Oh. Em. Gee. I went to TCNJ!!!!!!! And yes to your pronunciation of Girard Ave!!! 

Small world


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Independent George said:


> No cookie for you! What happened to R+?


 



Nargle said:


> Well, it's not that easy to interrupt and correct someone who's saying "I'm not angry, I'm FUSTRATED!!!" Lol! :biggrin1:
> 
> BTW, my boyfriend has such a weird accent. He's born and raised in north central Texas, and he says think like "vokna" (vodka) and "ung-gin" (onion). I don't think that's even Texas, lol! He also does the typical Texas "pen" "pin" and "fill" "feel" sounding the same, and it's pretty odd to me since I pronounce each word very clearly!


It's easy. Whenever he says, "I'm not angry, I'm FUSTRATED!!!"...you stop him right there and say, "It's not Fustrated...It's F*R*ustrated!" and then proceed to sound it out for him. I went so far as to tell mine that there is no L in Frustrated...its an R as in an RRRRRRRRR sound...RRRRRRRRRRR... After several times interrupting him and doing the above...he FINALLY stopped. But like I said, he now thinks its ok to correct ME...which isn't at all cool. lol Also, they just might get a little ticked off but its worth it in the end. 



melaka said:


> Edit: Oh and the first time I asked for a soda from my Ohio relatives, they were a bit put out since they thought I expected them to make me an ice cream soda.


LOL. One of the first few times I heard "Soda" was from a friend that had moved here from Washington D.C. (We were like 12 and we are still really good friends). Anyway, I remember her saying "Soda" and I'm like, "WTH is Soda???" I thought it was the oddest thing. I don't have soda...but I have pop!! lol She still calls it soda to this day. lol


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

Finkie_Mom said:


> Oh. Em. Gee. I went to TCNJ!!!!!!! And yes to your pronunciation of Girard Ave!!!
> 
> Small world


Hehe yep, small world =)


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I don't have a strong accent of any kind, apparently. It comes and goes...but most people say Oh, you're from Canada? Ontario? New Brunswick? You don't talk like someone from there...lol. 
I think it's because I'm one of those folks that picks up the inflections of other speakers....not a mimic really as the accent isn't perfect but the rhythm of my speech changes, so it seems like I'm from wherever the people I'm speaking to are...it's weird.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> #1 I don't think I posted in the wrong thread. I believe one of the "hot words" from the originating post was Pit Bull. Or, if you want to be very particular about how it was typed, pit bull.


My bad. When you posted in the thread, the way it read felt like perhaps you meant to post in a different thread but posted in this one accidentally (I've done that before x.x).


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't know what my accent is . . . I'm from rochester NY. I have friend who was here from texas for school and her mom could hardly ever understand half of what I said, although it went both ways I had a hard time understanding her mom. And its POP (or what flavor of coke).


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

melgrj7 said:


> I don't know what my accent is . . . I'm from rochester NY. I have friend who was here from texas for school and her mom could hardly ever understand half of what I said, although it went both ways I had a hard time understanding her mom. And its POP (or what flavor of coke).


I went to visit a friend in Rochester a couple years ago and I didn't notice a single accent. Everybody I met could have easily blended into MO, where I'm from.

Now that I'm living in Denver though, people will point out when I say something particularly hickish. I always thought that I did such a good job at resisting the hick...ness.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

theyogachick -- I have driven past your town and its water tower lol. Probably, anyway...I can't imagine there are many like it in the world.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Shaina said:


> theyogachick -- I have driven past your town and its water tower lol. Probably, anyway...I can't imagine there are many like it in the world.


If you were traveling 1-75 in Northern Kentucky, I am guessing that you saw it  I would guess there aren't many like it...at least none that I have ever seen.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

theyogachick said:


> If you were traveling 1-75 in Northern Kentucky, I am guessing that you saw it  I would guess there aren't many like it...at least none that I have ever seen.


Yup. That was several years ago (2006???) but well it's memorable lol


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

lisak_87 said:


> So, by default, since you mentioned ALL of the above words, this thread will also become a debate


I am new and LOVING this forum (why didnt I think about joining a forum before)-- I love DOGS love em love em love em!
But I find I am really getting reamed by the Pit people!!!!!!
(You put in your post that your pit fights and kills other dogs --b/c they deserved it-- but you dont muzzle it when out in public... huh )-- OK sorry off topic... maybe thats why I am getting reamed....(hey I had a Pit and I loved her too-- couldnt handle her, but loved her...) 
Well.. just wish everyone remembered that people have a right to their opinions... I guess it is time to turn off the 'Puter...


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Candydb said:


> I am new and LOVING this forum (why didnt I think about joining a forum before)-- I love DOGS love em love em love em!
> But I find I am really getting reamed by the Pit people!!!!!!
> (You put in your post that your pit fights and kills other dogs --b/c they deserved it-- but you dont muzzle it when out in public... huh )-- OK sorry off topic... maybe thats why I am getting reamed....(hey I had a Pit and I loved her too-- couldnt handle her, but loved her...)
> Well.. just wish everyone remembered that people have a right to their opinions... I guess it is time to turn off the 'Puter...


a. she's DA. meaning she WANTS to fight and kill other dogs. not that she DOES.
b. i dont muzzle her because there's no point. she takes them off. plus i can control her.
c. no one is "reaming" you and you are totally entitled to opinions. the problem is when you start trying to pass off your opinions as facts that slander other people's chosen breed. 

and that's all i gotta say on it.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> a. she's DA. meaning she WANTS to fight and kill other dogs. not that she DOES.
> b. i dont muzzle her because there's no point. she takes them off. plus i can control her.
> c. no one is "reaming" you and you are totally entitled to opinions. the problem is when you start trying to pass off your opinions as facts that slander other people's chosen breed.
> 
> and that's all i gotta say on it.


Sorry. It wasnt you! There was another post about an aggressive lab that got killed by this persons dog.
And enough said on that Topic. I wanna keep enjoying this Forum, and I apologize if what I said consitutes slander on a Breed. Dogs are great and lets just leave it at that.
Now am def turning off the 'puter!!!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Candydb said:


> You put in your post that your pit fights and kills other dogs --b/c they deserved it...


This is a gross mischaracterization of what was said.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

punishment -Ok in the right places (like not eating/playing with kittens)
pit bull - Fine breed, not for me, but a good breed none the less
litter of puppies - I love puppies, and it already happened, no need to attack on a past offense
spay/neuter - personal decision, 'Nuff said.
separation anxiety - I don't know the issue with that one (I haven't seen the debate on it yet.)
breeder - If you love your dog, thank a breeder. Bad breeders are just that, bad, lets look on what we all agree on.

I think the problem is with debate threads is when they start getting personal, then peoples feelings get hurt and things get nasty.
Example:
You are the reason your dog is being aggressive. 
vs
Sometimes dogs can get aggressive when treated like that, *enter possible solution here* is what I would suggest.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Candydb said:


> But I find I am really getting reamed by the Pit people!!!!!!


The Pit Bull people are trying to educate you, you seem to believe alot of the myths that have been spread through the media and those who support BSL. Pit Bull people are defensive of their breed for darn good reason, so yes, they get VERY upset when people come here and perpetrate the myths/lies and propaganda that's out there harming their breed of choice (it's much the same with those of us who own other breeds targeted by BSL).


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

KodiBarracuda said:


> punishment -Ok in the right places (like not eating/playing with kittens)


 So you'd punish your dog for not eating? That's. . .interesting.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

KodiBarracuda said:


> punishment -Ok in the right places (like not eating/playing with kittens)


Seriously?

I have a dog that will, on occasion, refuse to eat if he doesn't have yogurt mixed in his food. Should I "punish" him for refusing to eat? I honestly don't get that. What could I POSSIBLY do to "punish" my dog that will make him realize that NOT eating his food is "bad"? Maybe he's not hungry...or maybe he's just being a brat...but I can't, honestly, think of any "punishment" that will make him realize what he's being "punished" for. Really all it comes down to is this: Either he doesn't eat and goes hungry...or he eats and is satisfied after. It's nothing that *I* do...its just a problem that he has to solve himself.

Right now, the same dog has an infection on his foot and he's on antibiotics. IF he doesn't eat and he takes his meds, it will make him sick and he'll, more than likely vomit. I HAVE to get him to eat every meal, so yes, right now I'm putting yogurt, cottage cheese (thanks Xeph he LOVES it ) in all his meals. I guess I'm a bad dog owner because I cater to my dog when he refuses to eat because I know he'll refuse to eat without that stuff in his food.

And about the dog "playing with kittens"...I'm just confused. 

Maybe you need to elaborate what you really mean with your post.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I assumed that Kodi would punish a dog for trying to eat (or play with) kittens, which makes a bit more sense.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

The question that I always run into when it comes to punishment in terms of dogs is what IS punishment? Do I punish my dogs? I don't really believe that I actively do. I would suppose that it would come down to what someone considered to be "punishment". I try to train my dogs that "this" behavior gets attention, whereas "that" behavior doesn't. Eddie, my Lab, barked for over an hour last night for no apparent reason. Did I "punish" him? No, I didn't. But I did ignore him once I determined that all his needs were met. Is THAT punishment? To me, its not...its just simply ignoring him.

In terms of the kittens, if the dogs was just trying to play with the kittens...then say the dog was trying to play. If the dog was trying to "eat" the kittens, then say the dog was trying to "eat" the kittens. This is the internet, we can't interpret tone very well. Or maybe it's just me...who knows.

I have a cat aggressive dog and I also own 2 cats. I've owned BOTH successfully for over 4 years. Neither of my cats have ever been in danger of being killed by my dogs. I KNOW they aren't cat friendly and precautions are taken.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Mdawn said:


> The question that I always run into when it comes to punishment in terms of dogs is what IS punishment? Do I punish my dogs? I don't really believe that I actively do. I would suppose that it would come down to what someone considered to be "punishment". I try to train my dogs that "this" behavior gets attention, whereas "that" behavior doesn't. Eddie, my Lab, barked for over an hour last night for no apparent reason. Did I "punish" him? No, I didn't. But I did ignore him once I determined that all his needs were met. Is THAT punishment? To me, its not...its just simply ignoring him.


In behavioral terms, "punishment" has a very specific meaning. So it's not really a matter of what someone considers punishment. If it is punishment it decreases the frequency of a behavior. If it doesn't decrease the frequency with which the behavior occurs, it is not punishment. It becomes problematic when one person is talking about punishment in an operant conditioning definition, and another person is understanding it in an emotional general definition sort of way.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

My fiance really believes in punishment but he hasn't had a dog in a long time and I think things have changed. He's not a mean person or anything but I think he wants to treat a misbehaving dog like a misbehaving child, and I don't think dogs make the connection for it to be effective. So we have gotten into a few arguments about how to deal with misbehavior, but he's never disciplined my dog for me. At one point we are going to have to come up with a list of "punishments" that are tolerable to both of us, like no treats this evening or an hour without "play" or something. Something where everybody wins, because our argument is almost an ideological argument. Eventually we are going to have to have a long discussion and do some research together (I've already done it but he needs to see it) on how dogs learn and how to get them to do what you want effectively - because that SHOULD be the whole point of "punishment" as a general sense of the word, it shouldn't be about making you feel better, which it has become. So once he sees that punishment is not effective and does not resolve problems but creates more barriers, he will feel differently.

Oh and -does the thread necromancer dance- I totally thought this thread was put to sleep.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Yes, I meant the dog trying to eat and play with kittens. Kodi thinks they are delicious when he gets the gumption to go after them, and Lady plays with kittens (and live turtles, and dead turtles and balls, and bones, etc.) by throwing it into the air and playing fetch with it, then rolling all over it. Not good when its a little kitten or a live turtle. Roonie also plays with them, and its a 20 pound dog pouncing and holding down a 2 pound kitten, also not good.

I would also disagree with an hour without play or no treats in the evening for punishment. After that long (more than a few seconds) the dog doesn't know what it did wrong anymore. It just knows that "my human is unhappy and I don't get play, but I don't know why."


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Haha, I see the wording now. I do disagree that punishment is the best way to deal with playing too rough with kitties (depending on what you mean by punishment) because the dog might make the connection that when kittens are around, bad things happen. Then your problem is that he hates kittens, which is a lot harder to fix than just playing too rough. But anyway, my dogs aren't allowed to play with baby kittens (under about 6 months). I don't think any amount of punishment could take away the "yay kitties!" excitement they have.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Lady knows when she is doing something wrong, normally if I look out the window and put my hands on my hips and giver her a stern look she will stop what she is doing whether that be playing with cats or nuisance barking. My being displeased with her, rather it be a stern look or a stern 'no' is enough for her to stop whatever she is doing and not do it again. 

The other day I had to rescue a little stripy kitten from her that was by then covered in slobber and mess because she took it to the front yard and was throwing it into the air and playing with it. I went out and told her "NO" while pointing at her, she dropped the kitten instantly and we haven't had a problem with her and kittens since. Prior to that she thought she could get away with it and was getting kittens whenever she could. We allow her to lay down and watch them play but she cant touch them. She is an outdoor dog and they are outdoor cats so kittens are not new to her at all. 

We always joke that she thinks that they are her cats because if a new cat comes around she barks her fool head off at it, but wont bark at "her" cats.

Side note: Our grey cat RB just had her kittens.
Second side note: Somehow the door got open last night, and we had 3 cats and 4 kittens stuck in our house. I just looked down and saw Dobie (soft o) (el diablo) walking across the room. Dobie is special to me because a week ago i would have said he was going to die. He got either the cat rhinovirus or the cat herpes virus and had gunky eyes, depression, runny nose and just didn't feel good. Every night (sometimes twice in a day) I have to bring him in the house and clean his eyes and give him something special (meatloaf, tuna, etc.) and now he is strong and cute. His eyes are totally better, but he is feeling much better.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

So you don't provide your cats with medical care? Antibiotics will fix that kind of thing right up. No reason a cat should suffer and die from a URI. Plus those diseases are preventable with vaccinations.


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## joe_g (Jun 29, 2011)

cynster said:


> I've been beginning to notice some hot words that will lead to touchy topics on this forum - where the thread will start out completely innocent until someone either by accident or by intention includes a single word to drive the topic into overload.
> 
> Has anyone noticed this?
> 
> ...


Why is this surprising? Go out into the street and say "abortion" without causing a debate. There are always personal subjects that people feel strongly about.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Willowy said:


> So you don't provide your cats with medical care? Antibiotics will fix that kind of thing right up. No reason a cat should suffer and die from a URI. Plus those diseases are preventable with vaccinations.


Actually not only are these kittens too young for vaccinations, they are barn cats, it would be silly to vaccinate for something that has never actually killed one of our cats, and feline rhinovirus is not preventable with a vaccine and the vaccine for Feline Calicivirus/Herpesvirus is not 100 percent proven to prevent the disease. And with both of the possible ills he has most vets would not prescribe anything because it will normally go away on its own. And with over an hour and a half drive to the vet for something we can handle on our own for a barn cat, it just isn't practical. That and he is dong much better with home treatment. 

The other reason we don't vaccinate our cats is because in the last year we have lost 7 cats to coyotes, that would be hundreds of dollars of vaccines that wouldn't have helped them fend of a coyote.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Vaccines are like $5 at feed stores. And thinking a cat will die without treatment and still not getting treatment isn't exactly "handling" it. Sorry, I don't think you can come on a forum full of animal lovers and proclaim that it's OK to neglect your animals' care because it's "just a barn cat" (and plenty of people take excellent care of their barn cats) and expect people not to say anything.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm not neglecting it, its too young for vaccines and it did fine without the vaccines. Shoot me if I think I could handle it, and I was right. And vaccines for that are not at feed stores, not the feed store we have here at least, so again, it would be over an hour and a half drive for a barn cat that may be eaten by a coyote in the next year. And BTW, every year we have kittens get this and we have never had one die from it so we had no reason to believe this one would other than it was really weak and depressed. 
And again, read what I said, the vaccine doesn't always work, and one of the things I thought he had doesn't have a vaccine.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Kodi, dogs do NOT know when they've done wrong, they read YOUR body language when they see you are upset with them. I can make my dogs think I'm mad at them even when I'm not, they'll act like they've done something wrong even when they haven't thanks to my tone of voice and body language. 

Dogs have a very short memory, (you have three seconds to correct) do not genrealize (why you have to train things in different settings and with different people) What they KNOW is what has taught them as far as acceptable beahavior.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I still don't think that, because an animal might die prematurely, that that's a good reason to not seek medical care. Do you not take care of your health because you might die in a car accident next year? Of course no vaccine is 100% effective, but they do help prevent a lot of illnesses (rhinotracheitis is one of them included in the combo vaccine). And if the adult cats are vaccinated, this helps the kittens to stay healthier.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

cynster said:


> My fiance really believes in punishment but he hasn't had a dog in a long time and I think things have changed. He's not a mean person or anything but I think he wants to treat a misbehaving dog like a misbehaving child, and I don't think dogs make the connection for it to be effective. So we have gotten into a few arguments about how to deal with misbehavior, but he's never disciplined my dog for me. At one point we are going to have to come up with a list of "punishments" that are tolerable to both of us, like no treats this evening or an hour without "play" or something. .


Punishment doesn't work that well on children either. Frequently it just makes them sneakier about doing stuff you don't like. As far as punishments which are tolerable to both of you, if dogs don't make the connection for it to be effective (which I agree with) do you really think the dog is going to think "oh, I don't get any toys this evening because I chewed up the sofa pillow" or "I don't get to play until 8:45 because I pinched my human's ankle too hard at 7:45." If you must use a punisher of some sort, the more immediate it is the better. And duration of more than a few seconds is overkill. If the pup bites too hard, for instance, you'll get more mileage out of a yelp and leaving the room for 15 seconds than you will from shunning him for an hour.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> Punishment doesn't work that well on children either. Frequently it just makes them sneakier about doing stuff you don't like. As far as punishments which are tolerable to both of you, if dogs don't make the connection for it to be effective (which I agree with) do you really think the do is going to think "oh, I don't get any toys this evening because I chewed up the sofa pillow" or "I don't get to play until 8:45 because I pinched my human's ankle too hard at 7:45." If you must use a punisher of some sort, the more immediate it is the better. And duration of more than a few seconds is overkill. If the pup bites too hard, for instance, you'll get more mileage out of a yelp and leaving the room for 15 seconds than you will from shunning him for an hour.


Agree. I was always more afraid of letting my parents down than them hitting me. 
Agree. Dogs live in the moment, they wont remember what they did 1 hour ago and relate it to why they are still being punished now.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Willowy said:


> So you don't provide your cats with medical care? Antibiotics will fix that kind of thing right up. No reason a cat should suffer and die from a URI. Plus those diseases are preventable with vaccinations.


My oldest cat recently had an upper respiratory infection (which happened despite vaccinations). I took her to the vet, and the vet basically told me to do the same things as above - keep eyes and nose clean, make sure she was eating. Also some amoxycillin to discourage a secondary infection, but said that it was most likely viral in nature, and that the other cats would get it. They did, both only sneezed for about a day or so, and I treated them the same way I'd treated Abi, except for not taking them to the vet.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

cshellenberger said:


> Kodi, dogs do NOT know when they've done wrong, they read YOUR body language when they see you are upset with them.


I disagree, my dog DOES know when she has done wrong because she has been taught what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior. She knows nuisance barking is unacceptable, and she knows that playing with kittens is unacceptable behavior. And she knows that when she does one of those two unacceptable behaviors that she gets into trouble. 

If Kodi didn't know when he did wrong then why does he slink around with a sock in his mouth BEFORE I even know he has a sock. (or a hair tie, or a cotton ball, or anything else but a toy. He cant read my body language because if I didn't know he had the sock, I would be displaying any signs of dissatisfaction. 

I agree with everything else you said except that my dog doesn't know when she has been doing wrong, because she has been trained that, said behavior is wrong.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> If Kodi didn't know when he did wrong then why does he slink around with a sock in his mouth BEFORE I even know he has a sock. (or a hair tie, or a cotton ball, or anything else but a toy. He cant read my body language because if I didn't know he had the sock, I would be displaying any signs of dissatisfaction.


This is fascinating.

If you don't know that Kodi has a sock in his mouth, how do you know he is slinking?

It gets much more complicated when you have two dogs. Sometimes, when I come home, Esther will appear apprehensive. What that almost always means is that Molly has done something unacceptable (e.g. chewed up my wife's fuzzy slippers.) Esther knows it was a bad thing to do and is expecting some repercussions (which don't happen because I haven't actually caught anyone in the act.) Molly is nonchalant because she has a poorly developed sense of right-and-wrong (which is another way of saying she is poorly trained.)

In this case, the dog who is acting guilty is rarely the guilty dog.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

That is how I know he has something in his mouth. Many times I don't know he has something (he can hide an entire sock in his mouth and you cant tell by looking at his mouth and hair ties are easily hidden in the mouth). The only way I realize that he has something in his mouth is when he walks past me with his head real low like he is trying to be invisible so I don't notice him. Otherwise, he would walk past me like nothing and I don't think a thing. He must walk past me 10 times at night and I don't say or do anything because it is normal, he is just getting from one place to another, but when he does it with his head low in a sneaky way, I know something is up. I just notice it because its different from the first ten times.

Normally I don't notice the other dog, Roonie sleeps most of the time on top of the couch in the family room where he can sun himself. (He alternates from sleeping to playing, then sleeping again) When it comes down to it, Roonie is the older one, but hardly ever gets in trouble. The dogs are normally pretty independent of each other unless they are playing.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Pawzk9 said:


> My oldest cat recently had an upper respiratory infection (which happened despite vaccinations). I took her to the vet, and the vet basically told me to do the same things as above - keep eyes and nose clean, make sure she was eating. Also some amoxycillin to discourage a secondary infection, but said that it was most likely viral in nature, and that the other cats would get it. They did, both only sneezed for about a day or so, and I treated them the same way I'd treated Abi, except for not taking them to the vet.


Oh, I agree cats don't always need vet care for a cold (and that vaccinations don't prevent all strains of any disease). My cats gets colds occasionally and have never needed vet care for them. But I have never thought that one of them was going to die, and if I did you can believe we'd be at the vet ASAP. KodiBarracuda specifically said the kitten was thought to be dying, in which case he needed vet care.

Dogs don't know they're doing something wrong. Or they wouldn't do it (dogs like to please). They aren't humans and don't think like humans. All Kodi knows if that you get mad when he has a sock in his mouth and so he throws calming signals to attempt to prevent you from getting mad for what he thinks is no reason. He doesn't extrapolate from that that he shouldn't have a sock, he just knows that sock = mad human.

I suppose the bigger question is, if dogs do know that what they're doing is wrong, does that justify punishment (by which I assume you mean hitting. . .correct me if I'm wrong)? If you think it does, why?


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Actually not only are these kittens too young for vaccinations, they are barn cats, it would be silly to vaccinate for something that has never actually killed one of our cats, and feline rhinovirus is not preventable with a vaccine and the vaccine for Feline Calicivirus/Herpesvirus is not 100 percent proven to prevent the disease. And with both of the possible ills he has most vets would not prescribe anything because it will normally go away on its own. And with over an hour and a half drive to the vet for something we can handle on our own for a barn cat, it just isn't practical. That and he is dong much better with home treatment.
> 
> The other reason we don't vaccinate our cats is because in the last year we have lost 7 cats to coyotes, that would be hundreds of dollars of vaccines that wouldn't have helped them fend of a coyote.


The FVRCP combination vaccine isn't only for respiratory viruses, it also includes panleukopenia (distemper), which very well could sweep through your cats one day and kill them all. Just sayin'.


As far as hot button topics. I would rather talk about politics, religion, abortion, and gay marriage all at once with my family than talk about dog food on an internet message board.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

KodiBarracuda said:


> If Kodi didn't know when he did wrong then why does he slink around with a sock in his mouth BEFORE I even know he has a sock.


brom does this too but it is not "slinking" it is him trying to entice me to chase him for a game. he wants to play. he wants our other dog to chase him and try to take it from him.



sassafras said:


> The FVRCP combination vaccine isn't only for respiratory viruses, it also includes panleukopenia (distemper), which very well could sweep through your cats one day and kill them all. Just sayin'.


i have seen first hand what panleukopenia does to a litter of kittens.  when i was volunteering with my local spca my husband's cousin fostered a mom and her babies. they all died, and died fast. that was WITH vet care.  one died in her arms.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Panleuk is nasty. Fortunately rare, but very nasty. It's a parvovirus, and is just as bad as parvo in puppies. I've never seen a case, thankfully. My vet says it's not common around here. But yes, it's the one in the combo vaccine that's the most important. The others are usually mild and easily treated.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Kodi>> same here! Mine know when they are doing something naughty lol, all I have to do is give a knock on the window will usually stop any naughty behavior


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Kodi>> same here! Mine know when they are doing something naughty lol, all I have to do is give a knock on the window will usually stop any naughty behavior


Yep, if I cant see Lady and she is nuisance barking, (its in the middle of the night normally) a sharp knock once or twice on the window will usually stop it unless she actually is barking at something I cant see (like a coyote that is entering the yard (remember, its normally at night, and coyotes are sneaky!)

Willowy-
As for the cats, when we saw it and thought it was dying, we thought it was already too late to take it to the vet and we were going to let nature take over if our home remedies didn't work. Death is part of life on the ranch, I am at peace with that, its mother nature. The strongest survive, we don't want sick little cats on the ranch. And our cats are surprisingly hardy, more so than any house cat I have ever seen. They deal with - degree weather, 100 degree days, we have never had one with any disease like diabetes or cancer and except for the ones that are now coyote chow, live long healthy lives
As for dogs:
I guess it is like this: All dogs are different, I am not saying dogs think like humans, but if you are saying saying that dogs don't know what they are doing wrong means that they also don't know if they are doing right, you cant just have it one way (not directed at you Dragoness) And it is not just a sock that he slinks away with, its anything that isn't a toy, I am positive he hasn't equaled every thing in the house and outside to a mad human... And if dogs aimed to please, why would he get the sock in the first place if he knew it would displease me, there are many faults in your logic.
Maybe your dogs don't know what they are doing wrong, but my dogs do, and I know some others have dogs like mine that know when they are doing wrong and when they are doing right.

And I will correct you, I don't hit for punishment, a stern "NO" is all that is needed for my dogs, sometimes all that is needed is a look. I rarely ever -if at all- use physical reprimands.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

A stern no is not what most people would call punishment. I tend to assume that when people say they "punish" their dog for something, that it tends to be physical. . .that is what most people mean by "punishment" or"discipline". It's very rare to hear otherwise when people use either of those 2 words. Glad to hear otherwise in this case .

Still, even if a dog knows when he's doing something wrong (not saying they do), what use is that to humans in a training context? How does it change the human's reaction if the dog knows vs he doesn't know?


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Still, even if a dog knows when he's doing something wrong (not saying they do), what use is that to humans in a training context? How does it change the human's reaction if the dog knows vs he doesn't know?


 You can train your dog what is wrong if he understands what undesirable behavior is (which I couldn't see why he wouldn't, assuming he knows what desirable behavior is.)
For example, I have trained Lady that it is not acceptable to leave the yard. I have trained this be telling her what NOT to do (or what is wrong) (leave the yard) as opposed what to do (right) (stay in the yard). Therefore she knows that it is wrong to leave the yard.

And I call a stern no (or a look in my case) punishment because the dog finds it unpleasant and it reduces a behavior.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I say "do you want a time out?" BC when mine are being naughty & they dont listen they get removed from the situation & the fun. I dont speak to them, talk to them I just wordlessly put them in time out & to back to what I was doing... Without the offender lol. I am not out to dominate my dogs anymore, I used to think like that when Izze was growing up & almost had to be a little... Rigid with her, as hard nosed as she was. But now that she is older & thru her tough yrs, I can be a bit more contemporary& a little less traditional lol lol. 

Its all about what works for/ with the DOG (short of physical abuse of course), if the dog is motivated by "parties" like Jo was then "parties are what we did (still do) when she does something right, i also always positively reinforce them when they follow me around (they are always up my butt lol lol) or choose voluntarily to be with me. 

I think of myself not as their leader in "that" way, i dont wake up in the morning bent on canine domination, technically I am already dominant anyway. My dogs & i work as a team, there is a coop up in here, we HELP each other. There are things i csn do that they can't (dispense food, keeper of the "fun" opener of the door etc) hey also do things foe me: their ears are our ears, their noses are our noses.

My girls never hurt me emotionally or physically (intentionally that is lol) they never try to make me feel nervous or stressed or bullied... Why would i want to do that to them, its all about the golden rule, man


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Yes, I meant the dog trying to eat and play with kittens.


Ahhhhh....that makes much more sense to me now! lol

I was seriously thinking...what the heck? Punish a dog for not eating their food?!? and wanting to play with kittens?...LOL! Sorry!


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Lol, I wouldn't blame anyone if they wanted to call me an abusive idiot if I chose to punish my dogs for not eating, I have WAY more sense (common and otherwise) than that. And I understand how some dogs play with kittens just fine, if Roonie doesn't flat out pounce them and they are old enough I allow him to play with kittens, but the only way Lady knows how to play with kittens is to throw them into the air like she does with her bones and turtle shells. The other day she found a live turtle that had traveled down the driveway and when we went to get it to drive it back out to the water in the ditch (where it came from) Lady got to it first and started throwing it into the air so she could run after it and roll all over it. Thank goodness we knew about it and saved the turtle.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

My Mastiff tries to stomp cats. It's taken a lot of work, but he's mostly to the point now that when he sees one of ours, he can walk past them without reacting. Unless he's already hyper or excited about something else, the he'll run to them and throw down the stomp. I honestly think its because he doesn't know what to make of them and their claws, like he's halfway scared of them. lol He'll also do it to toads. He'll get this real puzzled look on his face when he sees one hop...then he'll try to stomp it. Thankfully, he doesn't have the best aim when he stomps the ground as he pretty much always misses...or maybe he intends to miss...who knows? LOL!!


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

KodiBarracuda said:


> I disagree, my dog DOES know when she has done wrong because she has been taught what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior. She knows nuisance barking is unacceptable, and she knows that playing with kittens is unacceptable behavior. And she knows that when she does one of those two unacceptable behaviors that she gets into trouble.
> 
> If Kodi didn't know when he did wrong then why does he slink around with a sock in his mouth BEFORE I even know he has a sock. (or a hair tie, or a cotton ball, or anything else but a toy. He cant read my body language because if I didn't know he had the sock, I would be displaying any signs of dissatisfaction.
> 
> I agree with everything else you said except that my dog doesn't know when she has been doing wrong, because she has been trained that, said behavior is wrong.


Basil will "slink" whenever he's carrying ANYTHING, whether it's something he's allowed to have or not. That's just the way he carries things. He has walked through the living room with his head low like he's carrying something on several occasions, and sometimes it's something he's not allowed to have, sometimes it's one of his toys, and sometimes it's a treat I had literally just given to him. I think all dogs carry things with their heads low because that's just the way their body works. They're not going to be walking around holding something with their heads thrown back unless they're playing. 

Perhaps the reason why it appears to you like he's "slinking" or "guilty" is because it's unusual to see your dog carrying something in his mouth unless he's been given permission. And if you have given him permission to have something, then you don't pay much attention to his body language, or don't interpret his posture as "guilt." Why not try an experiment and give him something that he can have (that he will carry around, not just a treat or toy that he will eat/play with where he's standing) and observe his body language when he carries it off. You may not interpret the scenario as him being "guilty" because it wouldn't make sense for him to be guilty in the context of the situation, but perhaps his posture will be similar to other situations when he's carrying something and "slinking" around.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Nargle said:


> Perhaps the reason why it appears to you like he's "slinking" or "guilty" is because it's unusual to see your dog carrying something in his mouth unless he's been given permission. And if you have given him permission to have something, then you don't pay much attention to his body language, or don't interpret his posture as "guilt." Why not try an experiment and give him something that he can have (that he will carry around, not just a treat or toy that he will eat/play with where he's standing) and observe his body language when he carries it off. You may not interpret the scenario as him being "guilty" because it wouldn't make sense for him to be guilty in the context of the situation, but perhaps his posture will be similar to other situations when he's carrying something and "slinking" around.


I appreciate your thoughts on the situation, but he carries his head normal if he has other things in his mouth (including a ear from a stuffed bear that he can conceal in his mouth just like a sock that he often grabs whenever he wants without me giving it to him). If he has any of his toys, treats or anything else he carries his head normal. I guess you can only trust me on this because you cant see him. 

And I just did what you suggested, I gave him something that he has never seen before and has never been associated with anything else and he carried it around like he would a toy. 

When he carries something he shouldn't have, his head is much much lower, practically on the floor (which is how I can tell he is in trouble) there is lots of difference from when he walks by me with a stuff-less bear ear about the size of a sock(he shredded it) and an actual sock.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

KodiBarracuda said:


> You can train your dog what is wrong if he understands what undesirable behavior is (which I couldn't see why he wouldn't, assuming he knows what desirable behavior is.)
> For example, I have trained Lady that it is not acceptable to leave the yard. I have trained this be telling her what NOT to do (or what is wrong) (leave the yard) as opposed what to do (right) (stay in the yard). Therefore she knows that it is wrong to leave the yard.
> 
> And I call a stern no (or a look in my case) punishment because the dog finds it unpleasant and it reduces a behavior.


 That didn't answer my question . Which was: if your dog knows that what they are doing is wrong, how does this change how you react to them? If your dog is shredding a sock and knows this is wrong, how will you behave differently from when, say, a puppy you just got is shredding a sock and doesn't know that it's wrong?


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Willowy said:


> That didn't answer my question . Which was: if your dog knows that what they are doing is wrong, how does this change how you react to them? If your dog is shredding a sock and knows this is wrong, how will you behave differently from when, say, a puppy you just got is shredding a sock and doesn't know that it's wrong?


Actually, it did answer your question  the first one at least.




> Still, even if a dog knows when he's doing something wrong (not saying they do), what use is that to humans in a training context? How does it change the human's reaction if the dog knows vs he doesn't know?


 First question, see my above answer, it changes the way you train.
Second question. 
It would determine the extent of the punishment, a puppy might get a level 2 no and a redirect (as we are still training that, that is unacceptable), but a dog that knew better would get a level 8 or 9 no (more energy, different tone, louder, deeper, etc.). See what I mean? And that would in turn reinforce to the dog that socks are not appropriate and thus reduce the incidences. And eventually to the point where there is no redirecting needed.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Lol, I have never heard of "levels" of saying no. 

And it shouldn't change the way you train because if the dog knows what he's doing is wrong, that means he's already been trained to know that. 

I don't think it's a useful belief. It leads to ideas like 'he's peeing on things to spite me" and similar. It leads to a lot of abuse. I just don't see how it strengthens someone's relationship with their dog to believe that the dog knows that he's doing wrong and does it anyway. It shouldn't change the human's reaction to the dog's behavior.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Well that is where we disagree. I am glad that we could have a civil debate about this  I hate it when people jump down my throat about things, and the more I am here, the more I like how we can all get along and disagree at the same time.

Touchy topics are much more enjoyable to deal with on here then they are on other sites (not saying any names, but don't be afraid to assume I'm talking about the one I got banned on for being a "troll" when I disagreed with their "no saying no to your dog or using anything but flat buckle collars and cookies" opinion.

With levels, I get that from dealing with horses, when you give a horse an aid you don't need to swing your boots up by your ears and flat out kick a well broke horse (exagerating of course) but with a new colt, you start by light pressure, then up your levels until the horse responds, that way you are using the minimum level and then you can eventually with time keep lowering your levels until you have a very well trained horse. 

like:
Level one-shifting seat forward
Level two- shifting seat forward and putting light pressure with your heals
level three-same as level two with a little more pressure
level four - you get the picture
level five - light taps with your heals
level six- harder taps
etc until the horse moves forward
(this is of course when you are training a new colt)

For dogs 
Level one - emotionless no
level two- little louder but still emotionless no
level three - put some emotion into it, adding volume
level four - lower voice, more emotion (or more upset emotion) louder
etc, etc, etc.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

KodiBarracuda said:


> For dogs
> Level one - emotionless no
> level two- little louder but still emotionless no
> level three - put some emotion into it, adding volume
> ...


I am not sure I agree with this. I have found that I tried "no" in the past and it didn't work. (I have been guilty of doing it from time to time when I get caught up in something). Now I am working on using one thing for all prohibited behaviors in my house: a strong "uh-uh" and that is it. I don't increase volume or emotion because I have found it has little effect. If anything, the volume sometimes frightens them more than giving them any indication that they are doing wrong. 

I think with dogs it is difficult to do a level system. There are really two ways--"acceptable" and "unacceptable." (for lack of better terms) Nothing in between (IMO). If I don't want my dog to bite, that means at all. No biting. Nipping doesn't get a lesser scolding. Still biting.

Oh, and as a teacher we were always told not to raise our voices because you really get the opposite effect of what you want. I guess I transfer that over to everything else. I don't think Gracie or Gizmo really understand yelling--but they know what correction is. So, regardless of what volume I use, they should still get the point.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't think dogs really understand the concepts of "right" and "wrong" at all anyway, but rather something more akin to "when I do _this_, human reacts like _that_". They operate too much from self interest to know or care if something is "wrong" the way we define it.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I'm wondering if the "slinking" is actually low grade guarding posture (because he knows the item is likely to get taken away...guarders generally guard MORE over time if things are repeatedly removed from them)..so it could be that the posture is protective of his "treasure" rather than "knowing it's wrong". As much as I do believe dogs are somewhat empathetic, I do not believe they have a moral compass that strictly says "this is right" and "this is wrong". Rather, it's more like "this is safe" and "this is dangerous".

Oh, I also believe that "the dog wants to please you" is a bunch of anthropomorphic hooey. LOL. It may LOOK like that, but I think it's a much more selfish/self centred feeling...when my human is happy, good stuff happens to ME. Cuz, you know, it's all about ME


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Touchy topics are much more enjoyable to deal with on here then they are on other sites (not saying any names, but don't be afraid to assume I'm talking about the one I got banned on for being a "troll" when I disagreed with their "no saying no to your dog or using anything but flat buckle collars and cookies" opinion.


Sort of....I find that anything to do with keeping a dog outside (even just during work hours) still inflames enough people to give a person the feeling that they are evil and have the intent to neglect their dog. Although I will say there ARE some people here that give balanced reasoned answers, explaining pros, cons and dangers. It was because of these answers that we have backed off of keeping ours outside while I'm at work (5-7 hours), at least for the next year or so, and when we do it'll be a dog run. I think I know the other forum that you are talking about....I mentioned that we were considering having ours outside for short periods and WOW you would think it was my intent to beat her then hang her from a tether by her neck BEFORE leaving to make sure she wasn't alive when I got home then not check on her for a week!! I got a couple of knee-jerk reactions here, off the wall compared to my intention, suggesting the worst, but many were well reasoned. 



Cracker said:


> Oh, I also believe that "the dog wants to please you" is a bunch of anthropomorphic hooey. LOL. It may LOOK like that, but I think it's a much more selfish/self centred feeling...when my human is happy, good stuff happens to ME. Cuz, you know, it's all about ME


I agree and disagree with this....its a semantics thing I think though. I still think "the dog wants to please you" is true, its just the motivation behind it is a self centered one, and anthropomorphic, but accurately so! People want to please for selfish motivation too, even if it is simply because they will be shunned by the people they want to socialize with because of their different, or wrong behavior. Anthropomorphic yes, but IMO not complete hooey. 

As for the "corrections" part of the discussion....what a difficult topic. Forums, books, articles all talk about them but are so vague, and it is SO rarely mentioned how fluid it is. It really does depend on the dog, the situation, and the person doing the correction. What works for my bf in a particular situation would not necessarily work for me in the exact same situation. The only thing we are finding that is working for the biting for both of us is putting her in a different room for 5-10 minutes. Other than that, mild vocal corrections are different between the two of us, and situation dependent. Teaching walking is different between the two of us as well and we can't quite figure out why. Other people with Swissies that we have talked to all advocate prong collars, but we are reluctant to go to that level of correction at this point. OH NO...I said prong collar....cover your heads everybody! Here it comes!!!!!  lol


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

sassafras said:


> I don't think dogs really understand the concepts of "right" and "wrong" at all anyway, but rather something more akin to "when I do _this_, human reacts like _that_". They operate too much from self interest to know or care if something is "wrong" the way we define it.





Cracker said:


> Oh, I also believe that "the dog wants to please you" is a bunch of anthropomorphic hooey. LOL. It may LOOK like that, but I think it's a much more selfish/self centred feeling...when my human is happy, good stuff happens to ME. Cuz, you know, it's all about ME


this is how i feel too. dogs take every opportunity they can to do what makes them happy.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Well that is where we disagree. I am glad that we could have a civil debate about this  I hate it when people jump down my throat about things, and the more I am here, the more I like how we can all get along and disagree at the same time.
> 
> Touchy topics are much more enjoyable to deal with on here then they are on other sites (not saying any names, but don't be afraid to assume I'm talking about the one I got banned on for being a "troll" when I disagreed with their "no saying no to your dog or using anything but flat buckle collars and cookies" opinion.
> 
> ...


I just want to let you know this is somewhat flawed based on what I know about learning and behavior. Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly but slowly increasing punishment using "levels" as you say is a great way to make the animal extremely resistant to that punishment and thereby making punishment ineffective, even when using more severe aversives. I can see where this might work when you're initially trying to figure out what intensity of a punisher to delivery to a new or naive animal (like a new horse), but, from an effectiveness point of view, punishers need to be both relatively intense and relatively quick to work. There should be no levels of intensity to talk about because if it doesn't stop the ongoing behavior it's by definition not a punisher.



> I don't think dogs really understand the concepts of "right" and "wrong" at all anyway, but rather something more akin to "when I do this, human reacts like that". They operate too much from self interest to know or care if something is "wrong" the way we define it.


I feel this way, too. I think the statement "he should know better" in response to a dog who doesn't act the way you want him to is a whole bunch of anthropomorphic crap.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Touchy topics are much more enjoyable to deal with on here then they are on other sites (not saying any names, but don't be afraid to assume I'm talking about the one I got banned on for being a "troll" when I disagreed with their "no saying no to your dog or using anything but flat buckle collars and cookies" opinion.


lol I wonder if this was the same site I was banned from, when a moderator who supposedly was a "professional wild life wrangler" was trying to tell members it was "super easy" to fight off savagely aggressive dogs and wild life that were out to kill you/your dogs, and not to be afraid to fight them off yourself (children could of been reading this, never mind really naive adults). I questioned the safety and logic of this, and got banned xD


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Well that is where we disagree. I am glad that we could have a civil debate about this  I hate it when people jump down my throat about things, and the more I am here, the more I like how we can all get along and disagree at the same time.
> 
> Touchy topics are much more enjoyable to deal with on here then they are on other sites (not saying any names, but don't be afraid to assume I'm talking about the one I got banned on for being a "troll" when I disagreed with their "no saying no to your dog or using anything but flat buckle collars and cookies" opinion.
> 
> ...


The "levels" I know about in dogs is Sue Ailsby's Training Levels, which are very good and positive reinforcement based. I know less about horses than I know about dogs (rode a bit as a kid) but I've heard that prey animals react much differently to pressure than predators do. That said, people say they need these methods for horses - as a not-a-horse-trainer, I can't say for sure if that's true, but I know they say similar things about dogs, and I'm quite sure it's not true. As for your escalating "NO!s" has it occurred to you that in less time than it takes to go from a neutral "no" to a very emotional and intimidating "NO!" you could have already asked for, received and reinforced a behavior you like better? It's much clearer for a dog to direct him to the behavior that will earn reward than to tell him you don't want a certain behavior and leave him guessing as to what might work instead.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Kodi>> your logic on horses makes perfect sense & is how OH breaks his . 

Wih my dogs I always make sure they know the word "no" (which here csn be anything from a gravelly "aht!!" or "hey!") I think that react more to your body lingo changing then the actual word that is said. I actually am very aware of my body lingo & make sure that I have a specific posture when I am displeased at something they are doing or stopping them from doing something.

For example, I can make Jo drop something in her mouth with just a look & change of posture. Now I DO NOT hit my dogs in anyway, hang them or choke them or "touch" them with my foot to achieve this. They want to please me, so (for them... Every dog is different) they become uncomfortable with this "mom is pissed" lingo, I am their world, the provider of food, coolness in summer, warmth in winter, water, lord of all fun things so its natural they would want to please me I mean... (in their eyes) its in their best interest in relation to their survival to appease me... If you will.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

Cracker said:


> I'm wondering if the "slinking" is actually low grade guarding posture (because he knows the item is likely to get taken away...guarders generally guard MORE over time if things are repeatedly removed from them)..so it could be that the posture is protective of his "treasure" rather than "knowing it's wrong". As much as I do believe dogs are somewhat empathetic, I do not believe they have a moral compass that strictly says "this is right" and "this is wrong". Rather, it's more like "this is safe" and "this is dangerous".


I had not thought of this before, but I think that maybe this is exactly why Basil carries things in his mouth the way he does. Basil is a resource guarder, and even though he guards much less now that I've been working with him, he still carries things like he's in a hurry to take it to his hiding place so that no one steals it from him. Perhaps this is not the way all dogs carry things, but IMO this posture does not indicate guilt. Really if the dog felt as though he was doing something "wrong," he probably wouldn't be doing it in the first place. He's instead probably thinking "I know this object usually gets taken away when I have it, so I better hurry up and hide it before it gets taken away."

Also, FWIW, I never take anything directly out of his mouth. I either trade him a treat for whatever object he has (if it's a high-value object) or I'll have him drop it and lead him away before picking it up (if it's a low value object).


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

KodiBarracuda said:


> For dogs
> Level one - emotionless no
> level two- little louder but still emotionless no
> level three - put some emotion into it, adding volume
> ...


That is not what I have been taught. By very gradually increasing the intensity of punishment you are desensitising the dog in the process, so the final punishment ends up being much harsher than necessary. Can't compare it to the horse, because that's not P+, that's R-.

You might start out with a mild punisher, like a stern 'no', but if the dog doesn't respond, you then punish quite harshly. So if you started with a level 1 punisher and got no response, you would then use a level 5. By doing that, you sensitise the dog to punishment, and as a result you might only need to use a level 2 or 3 in the future. Which is one of the aims of punishment, to use the least aversive punishment possible to get the desired result.

If you started with a level 1 and got no response, and then use a level 2, the dog might have learnt to work through the level 1, so you might get very little response to level 2 as well. You then go to level 3, and by now the dog has experienced level 1 and 2 and not cared much, so level 3 isn't a big deal. Etc etc, until you might get to level 7 before the dog starts to actually respond to it.

So by punishing harshly from the start you can successfully use a level 3 in the future, but by gradually desensitising and teaching the dog to work through the pain/discomfort, you have to keep using a level 7, and possibly keep increasing it.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm not saying that you start at level one and move up all at one punishment, I am saying you choose the level that is appropriate for that moment. Its something that works for my dogs and it is something that I will continue to use. I personally don't agree with redirecting in *most* cases. (This doesn't mean I will never redirect, but I have found it to be about as useful as a framed picture when it comes to dog training.(AKa it isn't useful at all for me))
And that is a nice theory Fuzzy, but from experiance, I can say it doesn't work like htat.


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## koukennin (Jul 25, 2011)

KodiBarracuda said:


> I disagree, my dog DOES know when she has done wrong because she has been taught what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior. She knows nuisance barking is unacceptable, and she knows that playing with kittens is unacceptable behavior. And she knows that when she does one of those two unacceptable behaviors that she gets into trouble.
> 
> If Kodi didn't know when he did wrong then why does he slink around with a sock in his mouth BEFORE I even know he has a sock. (or a hair tie, or a cotton ball, or anything else but a toy. He cant read my body language because if I didn't know he had the sock, I would be displaying any signs of dissatisfaction.
> 
> I agree with everything else you said except that my dog doesn't know when she has been doing wrong, because she has been trained that, said behavior is wrong.


He slinks around because he can tell that you are upset, which has already been explained.



dogdragoness said:


> Kodi>> same here! Mine know when they are doing something naughty lol, all I have to do is give a knock on the window will usually stop any naughty behavior


Possible, but unlikely. What is more likely is that they have learned that when you knock on the window, they should stop whatever they are doing at the time. Sometimes you can teach a dog what not to do, but generally I've found it much more effective to teach them what to do instead.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I do, as soon as they stop doing it, they get a praise & sometimes (we've graduated to sometimes) a yummy treat (usually their kibble... They totally love their kibble... *rolls eyes*). If you heard me calling them (lets go!!!!!!) if they're smelling around & dragging a$$ on our walks or something, or when we get separated a little when Im in the mule you'd think I was like... The meanest person in the world lol, but they know that the gruff tone means nothing except allow my voice to carry over a distance & over the mule's engine.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

koukennin said:


> He slinks around because he can tell that you are upset, which has already been explained.


You ought to read my whole post before you assume things. He cant tell I'm upset because I'm not upset yet because I don't know there is a sock in his mouth.

Dogdragoness -ACDs are freakishly smart, I love the breed, Lady is the best dog I have ever had for knowing what I want. We never did any formal training (at home or in a class) she just learned what was expected in the day to day living and is the smartest, most well behaved dog I have ever had. I don't doubt for a moment that your dog "knows".


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

KodiBarracuda said:


> You ought to read my whole post before you assume things. He cant tell I'm upset because I'm not upset yet because I don't know there is a sock in his mouth.


And if the antecedent is only the sock + you?


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Elaborate please, I'm not sure what you are trying to say with that post.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I live with a severe resource guarder, and a much better managed resource guarder. When they pick things up in the house and even if I am NOT angry (and I'm not. My house is a mess sometimes and someone should pick something up, I like to think they're trying to help) I am going to take it away. Me seeing they have something results in slinkage. Clove will slink passed me and give me a hard eye even before I realize he has something. Smalls will slink so hard she's practically belly on the ground. This is before I even react to the situation.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Elaborate please, I'm not sure what you are trying to say with that post.


It means "sock + you = bad" rather than "you upset over sock = bad".


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

TWAB-Well I have never seen any resource guarding in either of my dogs thus far, but I can understand your situation. 

Sassafras- I guess we can all believe what we want and I believe that he knows that socks are bad and he is being naughty when he has a sock which is why he slinks away.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

KodiBarracuda said:


> TWAB-Well I have never seen any resource guarding in either of my dogs thus far, but I can understand your situation.
> 
> Sassafras- I guess we can all believe what we want and I believe that he knows that socks are bad and he is being naughty when he has a sock which is why he slinks away.


Only a theory. Resource guarding comes in many shapes and sizes. Clove is severe. Smalls is middle road. Jack and Jonas will hard eye and stiffen, but give away. Clove will pick up socks and things, but he doesn't know he's doing any thing wrong until I enter the picture. Then he will slink away from me because me = whatever he has will go away. If I weren't in the picture he'd sure as hell eat that sock and not care two ways about it. He doesn't know it's bad to eat my things, he just knows I stop the process.


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

I've never punished Basil for taking anything, but he still sneaks around when he's carrying things because he's being possessive over them. Basil used to be a much worse resource guarder (crouching over things, growling, snarly face) but nowadays the extent of his resource guarding is just hiding things under his table, slinking away when he's got something, and trying very hard to avoid us and get away with his treasured item as quickly as possible if one of us notices that he's carrying something. He's still resource guarding, but he's not aggressive about it anymore.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

KodiBarracuda said:


> TWAB-Well I have never seen any resource guarding in either of my dogs thus far, but I can understand your situation.
> 
> Sassafras- I guess we can all believe what we want and I believe that he knows that socks are bad and he is being naughty when he has a sock which is why he slinks away.


Actually what you're seeing is a form of RG, it's the lowest grade. He's not doing it because he knows it's bad, bit because he knows you'll take his prize away. If instead of forcing him to give up the sock you trade up you might find him bringing you the sock instead of slinking away with it.


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## yappypappymom (Oct 22, 2009)

My thoughts on RG are funny actually, in the fact that neither of mine do this(THANKFULLY!!)...If I happen to "catch" one or the other doing some sort of strange chewing methods, I simply say "WHAT do you have"??..usually, it takes a second for them to spit it out for me to examine. If its acceptable, I say "oh, thats fine" & let them have it to chew up. However, if its a pencil or so let's say,.-they avoid it altogether as if the pencil was attacking them, &, that they were just "defending" themselves from the adversive beast. I'm no dummy....I know damn good & well that they thought chewing pencils was the funnest thing on the planet at the time to do, but...since SOMEONE(POINTS DIRECTLY AT YOUNG CHILD)left the pencils out in the open...well...duh...dog curiosity takes command. I'd say that people do the STUPIDEST things ever, that, of course dogs capitalize on naturally. Might as well get full-time trainers for the folks involved, as the dogs, naturally get "dubbed" w/the title of "BAD DOG"!


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

cshellenberger said:


> Actually what you're seeing is a form of RG, it's the lowest grade. He's not doing it because he knows it's bad, bit because he knows you'll take his prize away. If instead of forcing him to give up the sock you trade up you might find him bringing you the sock instead of slinking away with it.


I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to disagree, I know I am not seeing RG. 

Again, you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. And I will believe he knows better. This belief has worked thus far with every dog I have owned and until it stops working, I don't see the harm in believing it. You aren't going to convince me otherwise.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

KodiBarracuda said:


> I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to disagree, I know I am not seeing RG.
> 
> Again, you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. And I will believe he knows better. This belief has worked thus far with every dog I have owned and until it stops working, I don't see the harm in believing it. You aren't going to convince me otherwise.


I hate to disagree with you, but that is resource guarding.

If your dog never gets to play with a sock and he finds one, it is a rare, new thing. He would like to keep it, so he slinks, trying to avoid detection. If you give him a toy he always has, he is not going to slink because it is not new, different or rare and he does not see a need to guard it. This new thing is special and a prize and he does not want to give it up. It isn't that he knows he did wrong, its that he wants to keep this very special thing.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

theyogachick said:


> I hate to disagree with you, but that is resource guarding.
> 
> If your dog never gets to play with a sock and he finds one, it is a rare, new thing. He would like to keep it, so he slinks, trying to avoid detection. If you give him a toy he always has, he is not going to slink because it is not new, different or rare and he does not see a need to guard it. This new thing is special and a prize and he does not want to give it up. It isn't that he knows he did wrong, its that he wants to keep this very special thing.


 I really like this train of thought. I am not a professional dog trainer but have trained quite a few dogs.........including my own. I have a similar situation. My pup brings the laundry upstairs from the basement and puts it on the living room floor. She has chewed up numerous articles including my Dads hats and shirts and socks.

What I decided to do was calmly tell her "no" and proceed to tell her to "Drop" the article...pick up the article,.....take her AND the article back down to the basement and put it back into the laundry basket. I further proceed to go back upstairs and tell her "good"........praise her for returning it. I did this for about a month and the stealing as I consider it,has stopped. I turned it into a job for her to do. She is happy and so is my Dad! Lol!

I am not making light of any of this. It is just that I was trying to think of an alternative way to help solve the issue and turn what we as humans consider bad behavior into something positive for the animal as well as ourselves.

Just my opinion.......you will not ordinarily find me responding to heated debates.....but everyone here is so good at settling their differences admirably.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Abbylynn said:


> Just my opinion.......you will not ordinarily find me responding to heated debates.....but everyone here is so good at settling their differences admirably.


Not always, but the mods here believe in the phrase "speak softly and carry a big (ban) stick", people tend to learn quickly it's better to be civil if they like the place.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Kodi. im sorry but youre wrong. youre anthropomorphizing terribly. dogs dont recognize the same concepts in the same ways we do. right and wrong are cognitively based human constructs that take an adult human's brain to be able to fully grasp. Dogs are at about the cognitive level of a two year old child. two year old children..go ask one what right and wrong means...you'll get some weird as hell answers. 

Dogs are not capable of grasping right and wrong. thats a scientific fact.one that all these replies have been based on. 

you know whats also a scientific fact? mishandling of resource guarding is potentially extremely dangerous. the problem will likely escalate unless you address it for what it is.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Kodi. im sorry but youre wrong. youre anthropomorphizing terribly. dogs dont recognize the same concepts in the same ways we do. right and wrong are cognitively based human constructs that take an adult human's brain to be able to fully grasp. Dogs are at about the cognitive level of a two year old child. two year old children..go ask one what right and wrong means...you'll get some weird as hell answers.
> 
> Dogs are not capable of grasping right and wrong. thats a scientific fact.one that all these replies have been based on.
> 
> you know whats also a scientific fact? mishandling of resource guarding is potentially extremely dangerous. the problem will likely escalate unless you address it for what it is.


Where's my like button when I need it!


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Elaborate please, I'm not sure what you are trying to say with that post.


I'm saying if the dog has a history of being punished for eating socks, the laws of learning can predict his behavior. Antecedent + Behavior = Consequence; Parent in Room + Chewing on sock = Bad Things Happen; Bad Things Happen + Slinking Away = Relief. All I'm stating is that there is gravity on Earth. You may not believe in gravity, but like the laws of learning, there is overwhelming proof that there is gravity on Earth. The proof that dogs understand our morals is, on the contrary, underwhelming. Whether your beliefs work or not, are largely dependent on how effective your punishment and reinforcement is, and these things have very little to do with assumed beliefs.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Zim is so right.

Resource guarding is a hard thing to break...and when you won't even admit is is resource guarding, that is even more difficult.

I watch Gracie a lot with things. When I buy a new toy, she rushes to a "safe" place and tries to keep it from Gizmo. She protects it because she does not want to give up this thing. (I should be clear--she does not resource guard with me, my husband or any other human being...just Gizmo. And we are working on it.) Once that toy is old news, she guards it less...

We are working a lot on trade and rewarding her for not guarding things when Gizmo comes into a room (she used to get up, gather all the toys she could find and protect them when he came in). If I was like "eh, no biggy...she just wants her things" this whole situation could be out of hand.

Please read up on resource guarding. I think you will see that your dog is displaying it to some degree.

Here are some interesting reads on what it is and how to fix it.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/my-dark-secret-i’m-resource-guarder
http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/guarding-valued-objects
http://www.caninebehaviorcounseling.com/page2/files/be589a30cdfcf35b1d85b259816ea065-13.html
http://www.taleofthedog.com/training/training_pages/objectguarding.htm


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## koukennin (Jul 25, 2011)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Again, you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. And I will believe he knows better. This belief has worked thus far with every dog I have owned and until it stops working, I don't see the harm in believing it. You aren't going to convince me otherwise.


"...I will believe what I want to."

"You aren't going to convince me otherwise."

Then why are you engaging in a discussion? If your opinions are set and can't be swayed by logic or other views, it isn't a discussion at all. It's just you telling everyone that they're wrong, which defeats the purpose of having a discussion in the first place. Everyone holds opinions that they think are correct, but most people will at least listen to others and adjust when they have new information.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Well, I have an honest question anyway. Kodi, why do you think your pup knows he is doing something wrong? Or rather, how?


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## Nargle (Oct 1, 2007)

KodiBarracuda said:


> I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to disagree, I know I am not seeing RG.
> 
> Again, you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. And I will believe he knows better. This belief has worked thus far with every dog I have owned and until it stops working, I don't see the harm in believing it. You aren't going to convince me otherwise.


If he understood that stealing socks was a wrong thing to do, and the idea of misbehaving caused him so much remorse and guilt that you could see it in his posture as he slunk around, why would he steal socks in the first place and cause himself so much grief? You'd think he'd only steal socks if it made him feel good to do so. 

BTW if he is displaying minor RG behaviors, and he's handled incorrectly, it could definitely result in increased RG behaviors and potential for aggression. This isn't something you want to play games with.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Well, I have an honest question anyway. Kodi, why do you think your pup knows he is doing something wrong? Or rather, how?


I have to say something about this. The last couple days, Ginger's been a little PIA. We have a 3x5 indoor/outdoor type of rug as you walk in the kitchen door, has a rubber/vinyl hem. Monday and today, she tore off part of the rug and was trying to chew it up (she didn't do it yesterday because I was smart enough to close the dutch door. I forgot today). When I came out and saw the piece on the floor, I said "Ginger"! and she ran into her crate. She never goes to her crate unless I'm leaving or it's bedtime. How come she appears to know she did something wrong?


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Most likely your tone when you yelled at her. Get a newspaper and smack yourself in the head on the bum for giving her the opportunity.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> I have to say something about this. The last couple days, Ginger's been a little PIA. We have a 3x5 indoor/outdoor type of rug as you walk in the kitchen door, has a rubber/vinyl hem. Monday and today, she tore off part of the rug and was trying to chew it up (she didn't do it yesterday because I was smart enough to close the dutch door. I forgot today). When I came out and saw the piece on the floor, I said "Ginger"! and she ran into her crate. She never goes to her crate unless I'm leaving or it's bedtime. How come she appears to know she did something wrong?


I think Carla hit the nail on the head. She heard your tone and went to her safe place (crate) because that tone probably equals a consequence and she was trying to avoid it. I know that both Gracie and Gizmo react differently when I change tone of voice with their names.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> I have to say something about this. The last couple days, Ginger's been a little PIA. We have a 3x5 indoor/outdoor type of rug as you walk in the kitchen door, has a rubber/vinyl hem. Monday and today, she tore off part of the rug and was trying to chew it up (she didn't do it yesterday because I was smart enough to close the dutch door. I forgot today). When I came out and saw the piece on the floor, I said "Ginger"! and she ran into her crate. She never goes to her crate unless I'm leaving or it's bedtime. How come she appears to know she did something wrong?


In all likelihood it was a random fluke. Also, if she loves her crate and considers it her place, if you startled her or she picked up on any bad feelings she just went to the place she knew was safest. Smalls has never been hit in her life, but if I find she has done something terrible and I just look at her and say "Smalls.." she lowers her head and hard eyes me. She's picking up something in my tone or body language even when I am not actually outwardly angry towards her.

I have to share that I had a moment last night that had me rolling and I thought for a minute that dogs just might understand every thing we say perfectly. Clove was doing his naughty rounds where he harasses every dog and person in the house. He was standing by the edge of the couch a few feet from me barking obnoxiously in Smalls' face. who was snarking at him to GTFO. That got Jonas carrying on, and there was a chorus of noise. I finally yelled "HEEEEEY!" and every one looked at me. I said to Clove "Look, it's your fault we didn't go for a walk today. You were naughty, so it's YOUR fault you're not tired right now." and he grumbled and titled his head the entire time I was speaking. I finally said "I'm serious, if you're going to do that, go over there (pointing to the big open living room area we have) and do it." and he walked over to where I was pointing, turned to face us, and started barking. My boyfriend said "Clove, stop." and he lowered his head and looked at him and I said "No, no. I told him he could do it over there." and he barked at my boyfriend in response. I wish I had the whole incident on film.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Yoga and TWAB, you guys are probably right. Wish I knew why she's chewing up the rug, weird dog.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Well, I know my dobie will chew anything with rubber (rubber bands, hair ties ect) I think it's something to do with the scent of the rubber.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Well, I know my dobie will chew anything with rubber (rubber bands, hair ties ect) I think it's something to do with the scent of the rubber.


She's been here for over 7mos, same rug, just started this. Not that I care but she ate some the other day and puked it back up, which is a good thing


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> Yoga and TWAB, you guys are probably right. Wish I knew why she's chewing up the rug, weird dog.


Clove rips up the carpet runner on our stairs. I am constantly shooing him away from it. I've cleaned it with nature's miracle in case someone peed on it (would be an odd place to pee) but he just likes to chew up carpet.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Steph. Of the carpet is dark colored you could try rapblast, just be sure to wear gloves and a brush to apply it as spraying it could cause it to get on you and that would most unpleasant.


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## MuttJob (Jul 16, 2011)

cshellenberger said:


> Well, I know my dobie will chew anything with rubber (rubber bands, hair ties ect) I think it's something to do with the scent of the rubber.


I bet you are right....the smell. Sopher-dog used to LOVE plastic. Ya know when you walk into a dollar store and get hit with the overwhelming smell of plastic? Like a drug to my mutt. It took at least two years but remote controls, plastic gadgets...I can't count how many things had to be taken from her jaws as a puppy (or forlornly dropped when she got older.) She even got one of those BBQ lighters once by opening a kitchen cabinet. Won't chew on wood furniture....but platic patio furniture? Gotta put it up or cover it. I had to wean her to rubber from plastic. God bless the Kong Company! Hahaha. Point being... Dogs are weird.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

cshellenberger said:


> Steph. Of the carpet is dark colored you could try rapblast, just be sure to wear gloves and a brush to apply it as spraying it could cause it to get on you and that would most unpleasant.


It's not. Of course it's off white like our throw rug that no longer exists, lol.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

cshellenberger said:


> Actually what you're seeing is a form of RG, it's the lowest grade. He's not doing it because he knows it's bad, bit because he knows you'll take his prize away. If instead of forcing him to give up the sock you trade up you might find him bringing you the sock instead of slinking away with it.


I'm late because I've been out of town, but... this x 1000. Punishing or yelling can make it worse, relaxing and trading up can make it better. 

With Maisy, we've been able to turn this into a game with a happy jolly "What do you have, Maisy? Let me see?" and she'll happily bring anything right over. If it's something she can have, we just give it back. If it's something she can't have, she gets oodles of praise and something better in its place. After tons of repetition of this and simply never punishing her for having something she shouldn't, she practically brings stuff over without being asked these days... even if she is being "bad" by having something she shouldn't.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Back onto the topic for a moment... Lol, plz bear with me.

We all say things that could be taken the wrong way, I took something the wrong way recently but it was just me reading the wrong thing into it, just like a few ppl took something I said the wrong way just the other day & I didn't even mean it derogatorily but it is what it is, ppl will read posts how they will, his is only the internet so we can't see ppls expressions behind the text as ww could see in person to person Conversation I dont have any hard feelings when my texts are misread, I just apologize for not making myself clearer & revise my writing.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> We all say things that could be taken the wrong way, I took something the wrong way recently but it was just me reading the wrong thing into it, just like a few ppl took something I said the wrong way just the other day & I didn't even mean it derogatorily but it is what it is, ppl will read posts how they will, his is only the internet so we can't see ppls expressions behind the text as ww could see in person to person Conversation I dont have any hard feelings when my texts are misread, I just apologize for not making myself clearer & revise my writing.


You're dead right on this, I've done the same, both reading and writing. Although I differ a little on one point....the no hard feelings when texts are misread, or something from a twisted sense of humour comes across as serious. I have no hard feelings to a point, the point is when people assume (or insist) that the worst is meant and jump all over it.We all know what happens when a person assumes something lol.... I try my best to be understanding that its easy to misread, or mistype something, I try not to be harsh, but of course we're all just humans trying to talk through computers. Misunderstandings just waiting to happen!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Greater Swiss>> yeah it does kinda hurt when someone reads the worst into my posts that I didn't mean anything by, but we all do it, that's why I dont let it bother me too much.


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