# Pocket Beagles



## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

I didnt want to contribute to a dead thread, but I wanted to mention pocket beagles. When i got Bailey, I was told she was a pocket beagle. I am certain now she is just a poorly bred beagle, she stands only 9 inches at the shoulder. When I got her and was looking at getting a second dog, I was convinced I would save up for one of these

http://pocketbeaglesusa.com/

If I had known then what I know now I would not have spent any time on their site at all. They charge an arm and a leg for these dogs, but from the adult pictures, the satisfied customers, they do seem quite small, and have the same look as bailey.

This notice on their webiste is what really cracks me up








How can they be purebred pocket beagles???

Some of those poor puppies are $1300!! Its just crazy.


----------



## dane&cockermom (Oct 16, 2007)

ugh, it's crazy!

a girl on another forum i'm on INSISTS her beagle is a pocket beagle. she goes on and on about it all the time. i want to tell her about it, but don't want to start any drama. 

she was so proud of herself that she got him from a "reputable breeder" and all this. ugh.


----------



## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

LMAO.. 

the second one, to me, sure looks like its sick. 


Pocket beagle, i love it. Its as purebred as my Chiweenie is, im sure.

Im sorry, but you can buy *a car* that runs for $1300 What are people thinking? wow,


----------



## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

my Lord.. I am shocked beyond belief.. In opening this thread I thought it would be a cute picture of a beagle sticking their nose in someones pocket- had no thought it would be this..


----------



## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Whats more interesting than that is that this site was up and running when I was looking 4 years ago.

I actually thought that pocket beagles must be so great. Heres Kody and Bailey

















IMO, Bailey is not well proportioned. Sometimes it takes her a few treid to jump up on the chair or couch. She was bought for $750.00 as a puppy, and then sold to a girl in San Diego, and then given to us.

I still love her though.


----------



## Summergirl =) (May 24, 2008)

$1,300 can go for a breed. They most likely won't be bought though. Poor pups, they are adorable but won't be given a good home caused by the price. I saw a $3,500 dollar Maltese the other day on the computer and quite frankly it wasn't even that cute. Now who is ever going to spend that much money on a dog? Don't get me wrong, I love puppies! But some prices these days are absolutely ridiculous. (like gas price.)

As for the pocket beagles: they certainly are cuties. (especially your's) And how do they come up with these names? Teacup, pocket, I mean come on... pretty soon you're going to be hearing about "Dollar Dogs" or something that are as big as a dollar.


----------



## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

I like how they say 'raised on a farm' to make it sound like their dogs have good lives... as if that means the dogs get to run idyllic through the fields with the sheep or something... people are so naive to believe that.


----------



## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Summergirl =) said:


> $1,300 can go for a breed. They most likely won't be bought though. Poor pups, they are adorable but won't be given a good home caused by the price. I saw a $3,500 dollar Maltese the other day on the computer and quite frankly it wasn't even that cute. Now who is ever going to spend that much money on a dog? Don't get me wrong, I love puppies! But some prices these days are absolutely ridiculous. (like gas price.)
> 
> As for the pocket beagles: they certainly are cuties. (especially your's) And how do they come up with these names? Teacup, pocket, I mean come on... pretty soon you're going to be hearing about "Dollar Dogs" or something that are as big as a dollar.


From their brag page, they sell quite a few... yet dont mention any kind of health testing
Read this page
http://pocketbeaglesusa.com/Frequently Asked Questions.htm
I love how they have a 48 hour guarantee, wow great! 2 whole days! So if you send me my puppy with parvo, 5 days after I get it, he'll start dying!

I also love how apparently their dogs dont bark!



Pai said:


> I like how they say 'raised on a farm' to make it sound like their dogs have good lives... as if that means the dogs get to run idyllic through the fields with the sheep or something... people are so naive to believe that.


Yeah I can just imagine Bailey running through a field of daisys with pigs, goats and sheep!


----------



## Summergirl =) (May 24, 2008)

You guys, I don't believe you. The site said I should beware the people who post bad reports on pocket beagles... sorry... 

Haha. I'm kidding. But these people are their own little breeder; I'm not going to bother them. They can do what they want, it's a free country, even if it may not be right. All I can do is imagine the breeder seeing this and crying so I don't think I'll make fun anymore. =)


----------



## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I wrote this in another thread last night, so I'll just paste:

Pocket beagles did exist in the 1300s and 1400s, and were called as such because they could be carried in the pockets of hunters. However, pocket beagles no longer exist and the term has now become synonymous with poor-quality runts. Reputable breeders breed for only two height varities: 13" at 15" at the withers. The light bones, high ear sets and toyish heads that small-sized beagles tend to have are listed in the standard as faults.


----------



## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Summergirl =) said:


> You guys, I don't believe you. The site said I should beware the people who post bad reports on pocket beagles... sorry...
> 
> Haha. I'm kidding. But these people are their own little breeder; I'm not going to bother them. They can do what they want, it's a free country, even if it may not be right. All I can do is imagine the breeder seeing this and crying so I don't think I'll make fun anymore. =)


Well the breeder can wipe his tears with his hundred dollar bills and go run with his dogs on the farm



rosemaryninja said:


> I wrote this in another thread last night, so I'll just paste:
> 
> Pocket beagles did exist in the 1300s and 1400s, and were called as such because they could be carried in the pockets of hunters. However, pocket beagles no longer exist and the term has now become synonymous with poor-quality runts. Reputable breeders breed for only two height varities: 13" at 15" at the withers. The light bones, high ear sets and toyish heads that small-sized beagles tend to have are listed in the standard as faults.


Your post is what prompted me to post this thread. That thread was so old I didnt want to contribute. Thanks for your input!


----------



## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

4dogs3cats said:


> *Well the breeder can wipe his tears with his hundred dollar bills and go run with his dogs on the farm*
> 
> Your post is what prompted me to post this thread. That thread was so old I didnt want to contribute. Thanks for your input!


I about spit my water all over my keyboard.....good one....


----------



## Jaylie (Mar 5, 2007)

Summergirl =) said:


> You guys, I don't believe you. The site said I should beware the people who post bad reports on pocket beagles... sorry...


Haha, I noticed that too. But then I realized that 4dogs3cats (the one who IS "warning" us against pocket beagles) DOES own a "pocket" beagle, and that s/he has found the faults in them. And of COURSE the breeder's going to warn us against people who post bad reports. They want to make money.

ETA. Sorry 4dogs, I just realized it sounded like I'm saying that Bailey is faulty. I know you love her and she's a great dog, I'm just saying you've found the physical faults with her. Just wanted to make sure that it was clear that I was NOT bashing Bailey, who is adorable!


----------



## Kaida (Mar 13, 2007)

Criosphynx said:


> LMAO..
> 
> the second one, to me, sure looks like its sick.
> 
> ...


That's weird. I'm getting the impression from various places that dogs are really cheap in America? Of course you should be able to buy a car for the price of a dog, you'll have the dog a lot longer and it'll be more a part of your life. I was having this argument with a friend the other night, he is a car fanatic and I'm a dog person, and neither of us could understand why the other would spend that much on such a strange thing. He is buying a new car and I was saying you could buy two lovely pedigree long-haired chihuahuas as show prospects for that, or three cavaliers, and he was saying but why would you want to lol.

My currency converter says $1300 is £658 at the moment, which is about the average price of a dog in the UK. Some breeds are as much as £2000 (mainly some tiny chihuahuas, and English bulldogs, and some of the big molloser breeds). I paid £550 for Zack but now dogs of his breed are going for around £650.

What would you say the average price for a dog in the US is then?

ETA: I'd also be wary about buying from any person that can't spell the word "Enquire"!


----------



## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

Kaida said:


> That's weird. I'm getting the impression from various places that dogs are really cheap in America?
> 
> What would you say the average price for a dog in the US is then?


I also don't think that $1300 is terribly expensive for a dog, but prices vary by breed and quality. I would like to get a show/stud quality Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever someday, and I will certainly be paying over a grand. But for a pet quality beagle...well, you can get those from a shelter for a couple hundred bucks, and a pet-quality beagle from a reputable breeder should also be less than $1000 in most cases. 

Unreputable breeders and byb's tend to charge exorbitant amounts to prey on the belief that if it's more expensive, it must be better.


----------



## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

Kaida said:


> That's weird. I'm getting the impression from various places that dogs are really cheap in America? Of course you should be able to buy a car for the price of a dog, you'll have the dog a lot longer and it'll be more a part of your life. I was having this argument with a friend the other night, he is a car fanatic and I'm a dog person, and neither of us could understand why the other would spend that much on such a strange thing. He is buying a new car and I was saying you could buy two lovely pedigree long-haired chihuahuas as show prospects for that, or three cavaliers, and he was saying but why would you want to lol.
> 
> My currency converter says $1300 is £658 at the moment, which is about the average price of a dog in the UK. Some breeds are as much as £2000 (mainly some tiny chihuahuas, and English bulldogs, and some of the big molloser breeds). I paid £550 for Zack but now dogs of his breed are going for around £650.
> 
> ...




I see no problem at all with paying that much for a well bred dog if thats your thing.... 

Personally I chose to rescue my dogs. 

The economy is very slow here right now and also people are losing their homes (especially here in california) There are vacant houses everywhere and people are setting up homeless tent cities. 

It just seems ridiculous to me when people buy these puppy millish dogs for that much money and they can't make a mortgage payment, and they are driving a car that barely runs....


Not saying a car is better, just more practical

Im sure all these buyers are not exactly educated and wallowing in money


----------



## HoundedByHounds (Aug 17, 2007)

Beagles are a proportional dwarf breed meaning they were bred down from larger animals. True dwarfism *does* occur in the breed as well as Chinese Beagle Syndrome/Musladin syndrome. It is NOT a good idea for folks to be playing around with dwarfing them further. It makes me cranky lol.

MOST of the pocketbeagles I have seen appear to have been crossed with Chi or Rat Terrier or even Mini Dachs. This is bad but not AS bad as using hounds afflicted with dwarfism for breeding...which is the other route.

LINK (dwarfism)

LINK (Chinese Beagle Syndrome)


----------



## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Criosphynx said:


> I about spit my water all over my keyboard.....good one....


lol 



Jaylie said:


> Haha, I noticed that too. But then I realized that 4dogs3cats (the one who IS "warning" us against pocket beagles) DOES own a "pocket" beagle, and that s/he has found the faults in them. And of COURSE the breeder's going to warn us against people who post bad reports. They want to make money.
> 
> ETA. Sorry 4dogs, I just realized it sounded like I'm saying that Bailey is faulty. I know you love her and she's a great dog, I'm just saying you've found the physical faults with her. Just wanted to make sure that it was clear that I was NOT bashing Bailey, who is adorable!


no offense taken, Bailey was a rescue and I love every fault she has



HoundedByHounds said:


> Beagles are a proportional dwarf breed meaning they were bred down from larger animals. True dwarfism *does* occur in the breed as well as Chinese Beagle Syndrome/Musladin syndrome. It is NOT a good idea for folks to be playing around with dwarfing them further. It makes me cranky lol.
> 
> MOST of the pocketbeagles I have seen appear to have been crossed with Chi or Rat Terrier or even Mini Dachs. This is bad but not AS bad as using hounds afflicted with dwarfism for breeding...which is the other route.
> 
> ...


Sometimes I wonder if Bailey is mixed... but she is apparently akc registered as a beagle under 13 inches... I doubt that... here she is



















Heres a link that shows how small she really is
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1340404190056815414xWwAOZ?vhost=rides


----------



## HoundedByHounds (Aug 17, 2007)

I wouldn't say I see much other than Beagle. Small Beagles happen, even in show folks litters. There are hounds being shown that are 10-12" tall...she more just looks like they are selecting for small size as opposed to bone or earset or expression or other things like that.

I have a sub 13" myself and she is quite small (11")..weighs maybe 13-15lbs or so? Her mother is a hair shorter and weighs much more..but she's also 7 years old. Two hounds of the same height can look vastly different given diferences in bone or ribbing, length of leg etc.

Here is a pic of Ellie my smallest:


----------



## Orange County Ca (Apr 6, 2007)

*Large pockets?*

You would have to have large pockets to own one of them. In more ways than one.


----------



## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

haha about the large pockets.


See she still looks more beagle than Bailey. She has that hound snount... Baileys nose is more pointy to me.. I dunno, I think she is just poorley bred or we would be seeing vast differences. Its amazing how far they can stray from the breed standard.. Kody isnt even close to standard IMO,


----------



## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Well considering the actual breed standard of the Beagle with is two varieties 13 inch and under, and 15 inch; which is more than 13 inches, but not more than 15. 

Soooooooo...even these beagles are just 'small' beagles, not 'pocket beagles' because from what I can tell of the standard there is no set 'shortness' height...only a height which they can be considered 'too tall'...

Not that one 'should' breed for super small beagles, but there really is no height limitation regarding to a dog being 'too short'... Although if you want a really small beagle, why not get a Chihuahua...different breed yes, but bred to be a 'pocket pet' so to speak...


----------



## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

Kaida said:


> That's weird. I'm getting the impression from various places that dogs are really cheap in America?
> 
> 
> What would you say the average price for a dog in the US is then?



It's not so much that this "breeder" is charging $1300 for these pups, it's the fact that her genetic junk is not worth that price! Well bred dogs in America are NOT cheap. Pet quality from my breeding is $800 - show quality is $1000 & up, depending on how much potential the pup has. It's quite common for some show breeders of Beagles to charge $1500 for pet and/or show quality. And I *do not* think that price is unreasonable. But also keep in mind that if you go to a reputable breeder, you are actually more likely to pay LESS than you would with a bad breeder. 

When you do pay extra for a well bred pup, tho, there is $$$ behind that pup. They will have health screened parents, sometimes champion or field champion parents, the knowledge of the breeder which will give you not only a physically handsome pup but one that epitomizes the characteristics of the breed, as well. Reputable breeders do not breed for size. The pocket beagles were bred down to be a few pounds and had poor conformation, and ensuing structural abnormalities. They were a short lived fad because the vigor of the breed drastically declined. Furthermore, if a breeder needs to have a gimmick in order to sell pups, no matter what that gimmick is, WATCH OUT  Small Beagles are common and most 13" are actually significantly under 13". I have a show champion bitch who is 12", a field bred male who is 12", a field/show cross who is 11" and maybe 12lbs soaking wet. She is TINY. I also have a year old bitch I will not be using for breeding who is approx 10.5" at the withers, if that much. So not uncommon and I certainly would never charge someone that kind of money for a small, scrawny poor example of the breed.


----------



## 709Juggalette (Feb 21, 2008)

I never heard of "pocket beagles" before and I am involved with beagle rescue! The small ones are just called "small beagles" here.

I am currently fostering a small beagle named Coco.
She is short on her legs and quite stumpy.


----------



## Two'sCompany (Mar 30, 2008)

I LOL'd at this: 

Q: Do you socialize your dogs?
A: Yes, everyone of our puppies play with our son daily. They also socialize with other dogs.

Way to go, 1 person! Only socializing with one person is what messed up a lot of dogs up I know to start with 


PS: About the wiping his tears with his dollars....brilliant


----------



## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

hahaha. Its just so funny because they live in their own little world, and they dont mention ANY testing, and they give you a whopping 48 hour guarantee. What if they send the puppy in the oncoming stages of PARVO?? what then?? I have no problem with breeders charging 1,000 for a puppy, but not one that has nothing to back up their price.


----------



## Spicy1_VV (Jun 1, 2007)

Kaida said:


> That's weird. I'm getting the impression from various places that dogs are really cheap in America? Of course you should be able to buy a car for the price of a dog, you'll have the dog a lot longer and it'll be more a part of your life. I was having this argument with a friend the other night, he is a car fanatic and I'm a dog person, and neither of us could understand why the other would spend that much on such a strange thing. He is buying a new car and I was saying you could buy two lovely pedigree long-haired chihuahuas as show prospects for that, or three cavaliers, and he was saying but why would you want to lol.
> 
> My currency converter says $1300 is £658 at the moment, which is about the average price of a dog in the UK. Some breeds are as much as £2000 (mainly some tiny chihuahuas, and English bulldogs, and some of the big molloser breeds). I paid £550 for Zack but now dogs of his breed are going for around £650.
> 
> ...


It depends on the breeder, quality and even breed for price. I don't think $1300 is too much, my last one cost me $2000.

How long you have a dog vs a car depends on a lot of things. Most good cars will out last even a well bred healthy dog. 

I do think it just depends on what you like, as with you and your friend. People spend their money on different things. 

I think the point some are trying to make is a lot of people don't have $ but they might by the dog anyway. A dog might last them longer but then they don't have a way to get to work to buy food or vet care for the dog or whatever. Something like that. But if you can afford it or make due that is your business if you decide to buy a dog. As you said show prospects (they are worth that price), an out of standard pet quality dog shouldn't be bred and its offspring shouldn't be $1,300 in the opinion of most. Hope that makes more sense now, its more about these pups costing that much not well bred pups being an issue. 

Usually I don't have to pay for dogs, so I'm not sure what the average price is overall, probably not one average for so many breeds.


----------



## Criosphynx (May 15, 2008)

Spicy1_VV said:


> It depends on the breeder, quality and even breed for price. I don't think $1300 is too much, my last one cost me $2000.
> 
> How long you have a dog vs a car depends on a lot of things. Most good cars will out last even a well bred healthy dog.
> 
> ...



Exactly what i was trying to say!


----------



## sparkybeagle (Jul 29, 2007)

It seems like they are using "pocket" beagle as cutsey way to make small beagles seem like "designer" dogs. When they are really just a 13". Even if you breed 2 small beagles isn't there a chance you could end up with a 15" or two in the litter? What do they do with those puppies-call them giant beagles?

I have alot of people say wow what a big beagle about Sparky-he is a hair under 15" at the haunches. Somone said that 13" are more common? 


















It's hard to get a good shot of him, he's camera shy. But he really dosen't seem that big, I guess it's hard to compare pictures.


----------



## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

> It seems like they are using "pocket" beagle as cutsey way to make small beagles seem like "designer" dogs. When they are really just a 13". Even if you breed 2 small beagles isn't there a chance you could end up with a 15" or two in the litter? What do they do with those puppies-call them giant beagles?



Yup! Beagles will throw a hodgepodge of sizes in most instances, as the foundation hounds used to create the modern day Beagle varied widely in size. There has always been size and speed differences within the breed - a larger, swifter type were used for hunting on horseback and/or for fox. They were much like today's LPO hounds ... taller, leaner, and traded faster foot speed for methodical checkwork. As far as I know, the last reputable breeder who attempted to intentionally breed for tiny size in a hare hunting pack was Padget's Thorpe Satcheville line. This was something of a failure - good hare untign dogs but I believe he was never able to consistantly produce size.
Wow, have I digressed  So yeah, in almost every Beagle litter you will have both 13" & 15" hounds. If you breed two 13" you can get 15" pups and vice versa. I have an 11" bitch who was out of a full 13" dam & 15" sire, and three of her littermates went oversize!!! It just so happened she was the smallest pup in the litter, and the smallest her breeder had ever produced! 
I also just bred two of my under 13" hounds together, and all the pups are already just slightly smaller than their sire & dam, and they're only 3.5 months old  
There are NO guarantees of size within this breed, and even predicting adult size is nothing more than a guesstimate for most experienced breeders ... 




> I have alot of people say wow what a big beagle about Sparky-he is a hair under 15" at the haunches. Somone said that 13" are more common?


 
Honestly, he does not seem that large from the pic. He looks maybe 14.5" Neither variety is more common within the breed, btw.


----------



## HoundedByHounds (Aug 17, 2007)

I'd say a true 13" male is the least seen...AKC Ch points numbers would seem to indicate that's the case all over the country.

My Ellie had a small brother that stayed under til maturity then went a tiny bit over...a shame really since he's simply overlooked in the 15"s ring.

Joe:


----------



## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Gina - that is a GORGEOUS boy. 

Kaida - I think puppy prices vary a lot- both by breed and by part of the country. One thing that I think is interesting from my UK (German Spitz) list is that people who come on the list looking for pet puppies generally don't want to travel any further than two hours or so from their homes, where here in the US if you wnat a rare breed, folks are generally willing to travel a LITTLE further. (And two hours in Texas, where I live, may get you to the next largest city if you're in some parts of the state or the middle of no where in most of it- it takes about two hours to drive ACROSS Dallas or Houston during even moderate traffic because of the sprawl!) I know that my spitz puppy, Lizzie, cost about 1/4 of what she would have in the UK (at least judging by what her mother's breeder charges for puppies- I suspect that's the difference between a breed that's fully recognized by the KC and one that's in the AKC FSS and not widely recognized as being anything other than a 'big pom'.), but I suspect the prices for Collies and Cardis are pretty close to the same here as there.


----------



## UrbanBeagles (Aug 13, 2007)

> My Ellie had a small brother that stayed under til maturity then went a tiny bit over...a shame really since he's simply overlooked in the 15"s ring.



Holy crap - that is one balanced, beautiful hound  I'm drooling over that boy! Mind if I ask what is the breeding on him?


----------

