# 2 month old puppy at the dog park



## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

I've just started taking Cosette to the small breed area of the dog park (and quickly learned a few rules: don't bring treats and leave at the first sign of trouble) Anyway, two teenage girls walked in with an adorable puppy. I had to kind of do a double take because to me it looked like a very small boxer puppy, but I figured a puppy that young wouldn't be brought to a dog park, so I asked what breed it was, thinking maybe it was a mix, and the owners said it was a boxer bulldog mix. But still - it looked so tiny, and I am pretty sure bulldogs are rather big dogs (compared to my papillon lol). So I just let it go, and assumed it was like 5 or 6 months. But the guy I had been talking to at the park started interrogating the girls about their dog, and we were eventually told it was only 2 months old. So he warned them about parvo (and there is a sign that dogs must have their shots and be no less that 4 months >.> just saying...) and they pretty much ignored him other than saying they both work in a shelter/kennel and know how to take care of dogs.

I was shocked. 

Anyway being new to the dogpark scene - is this normal?!


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

It's not "normal" but unfortunately people like that go into dog parks all the time. Atleast they brought him into the small dog area though.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

You can never get rid of all the idiots in the world.. and now you found two more. I don't mind if they are idiots who can hurt themselves.. but most of the injury can segue over to their innocent kids or pets. 

No idea if it is normal but it surely is dangerous.. and Parvo is a horrible way for a dog to die.


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## Bird-Dog (Dec 24, 2008)

Elana55 said:


> *You can never get rid of all the idiots in the world.*. and now you found two more. I don't mind if they are idiots who can hurt themselves.. but most of the injury can segue over to their innocent kids or pets.
> 
> No idea if it is normal but it surely is dangerous.. and Parvo is a horrible way for a dog to die.


This. Unfortunately, idiots at the dog park is VERY normal in my area.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

It's a horrible idea for many reasons. "Socializing" a puppy that young in a dog park is like throwing a toddler on the field during a rugby match and it's a good way to cause fear and reactivity to other dogs IMO. Babies need to learn to play and feel safe playing with other babies.

For some reason the people who frequent the dog park I use most of the time seem to be a cut above all the horror stories I hear about other people's dog parks. I've maybe once or twice seen a puppy that young at the park in all the years I've been taking Pip.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

sassafras said:


> It's a horrible idea for many reasons. "Socializing" a puppy that young in a dog park is like throwing a toddler on the field during a rugby match and it's a good way to cause fear and reactivity to other dogs IMO. Babies need to learn to play and feel safe playing with other babies.
> 
> For some reason the people who frequent the dog park I use most of the time seem to be a cut above all the horror stories I hear about other people's dog parks. I've maybe once or twice seen a puppy that young at the park in all the years I've been taking Pip.



THIS! Parvo is definitely a risk to the immediate health and welfare of a pup this young...but possible serious socialization problems are lifelong...puppies under the age of four months quite simply do not belong in a dog park. I've got no problem myself telling people with pups that young that it is unsafe and that they should leave and find a puppy K class or have doggy playdates with puppy safe dogs to get their socialization requirements met. 

Sassafrass, I love the rugby analogy..and yes, how true!


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## RomeoSnow (Dec 23, 2010)

It's just not a place a young pup should be, but then again, life is life. As long as the pup was having fun, thats all that really would matter to me.


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## tigress (Feb 6, 2008)

Ok, curious, I can easily understand the arguement from a "Not a good place to socialize at so young. Could traumatize them against dogs later on in life."

But I'm pretty sure puppies can and do get the first of their puppy shots before 9 weeks (or rather at 2 months it is quite possible the dog has been vaccinated). If the puppy is vaccinated (properly, like I know for puppy shots they have to get another in 3 weeks and if the first shots were given before 9 weeks they'll also need a third set), why is it still dangerous (from parvo and distemper at least which I know the basic combo shot covers) for the puppy? I'd guess there might be other diseases but a lot of the conversation in this thread seems to be the biggest worry is parvo.

From what I understand, the parvo shot is pretty effective against parvo (I was a receptionist at a vet clinic and I know he told me it was very very rare to see a dog that had parvo that had been vaccinated, in fact, all of the dogs I saw that came in that ended up having parvo were unvaccinated). Not as sure about distemper but from what I understand it's a pretty effective vaccine too.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

tigress said:


> Ok, curious, I can easily understand the arguement from a "Not a good place to socialize at so young. Could traumatize them against dogs later on in life."
> 
> But I'm pretty sure puppies can and do get the first of their puppy shots before 9 weeks (or rather at 2 months it is quite possible the dog has been vaccinated). If the puppy is vaccinated (properly, like I know for puppy shots they have to get another in 3 weeks and if the first shots were given before 9 weeks they'll also need a third set), why is it still dangerous (from parvo and distemper at least which I know the basic combo shot covers) for the puppy? I'd guess there might be other diseases but a lot of the conversation in this thread seems to be the biggest worry is parvo.
> 
> From what I understand, the parvo shot is pretty effective against parvo (I was a receptionist at a vet clinic and I know he told me it was very very rare to see a dog that had parvo that had been vaccinated, in fact, all of the dogs I saw that came in that ended up having parvo were unvaccinated). Not as sure about distemper but from what I understand it's a pretty effective vaccine too.


When my puppy was 3 months, I was told not even to take her outside to go potty (I used training pads, since there are -so- many dog owners and I don't have a backyard) because even though she had her first set of shots, if she sniffed an area a sick dog had been she could still get it. I thought the vacs at that age prevented it too, but I was told to wait until she had the final vaccination (which was at 4-5 months). I got her at 13 weeks and she had 2 sets of shots but needed her third.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Puppies don't get a rabies shot until they are 12 weeks old. We all know there are some rather... nasty people who go to dog parks. Puppies are mouthy creatures with teeth like needles. It's very easy for a puppy to grab onto someone and due to their razor sharp teeth unintentionally draw blood. 

There was a 10 week old black lab puppy who got a little bit excited and nipped someone who was playing with him at our local dog park. The nip drew blood but wasn't serious at all. Animal control was called and since the puppy didn't have a rabies shot, there was a mandated 10 day quarantine at a boarding facility, shelter, or veterinarian's clinic. The shelter's bylaws required the owners to surrender the dog in order for it to be boarded there, and they could apply to adopt him once the hold was up. The owners couldn't afford to do 10 days of boarding at a kennel or veterinarian's clinic, so they opted to surrender him to the shelter thinking they would get the dog back. Ten days go by, the owners try to adopt the puppy back but they are DENIED because they surrendered an animal to a shelter within the past year. Puppy is euthanized on day 11 because the shelter was full and large breed black dogs (even puppies) with a bite history are considered unadoptable.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

tigress said:


> Ok, curious, I can easily understand the arguement from a "Not a good place to socialize at so young. Could traumatize them against dogs later on in life."
> 
> But I'm pretty sure puppies can and do get the first of their puppy shots before 9 weeks (or rather at 2 months it is quite possible the dog has been vaccinated). If the puppy is vaccinated (properly, like I know for puppy shots they have to get another in 3 weeks and if the first shots were given before 9 weeks they'll also need a third set), why is it still dangerous (from parvo and distemper at least which I know the basic combo shot covers) for the puppy? I'd guess there might be other diseases but a lot of the conversation in this thread seems to be the biggest worry is parvo.
> 
> From what I understand, the parvo shot is pretty effective against parvo (I was a receptionist at a vet clinic and I know he told me it was very very rare to see a dog that had parvo that had been vaccinated, in fact, all of the dogs I saw that came in that ended up having parvo were unvaccinated). Not as sure about distemper but from what I understand it's a pretty effective vaccine too.


Different people have a different comfort level with taking puppies out before their full series is done.


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## LuckySarah (May 3, 2010)

The first puppy shot does nothing but get rid of any natural immunity the puppy has, so really you want to wait until the 2nd shot (and 10 days after the 2nd shot) for the best bet at protection and even that is not 100% (and does not include rabies).

I have a 14 week old bulldog pup that I took into the dog park today for the first time, I kept him on leash and walked around the perimeter of park with him. He sniffed a few dogs and he got to play with an older puppy for 10 or 15 minutes, but by keeping him on leash and essentially under control we were able to avoid the more robust/excited dogs and all in all it was a good experience for him.

I do think it can be dangerous and damaging to puppies and you need to introduce them to other dogs or the dog park in a controlled manner, if you want your dog to be able to participate with other dogs at the dog park its important to socialize them with that but its a balance. Its that fine line between socializing and risking disease or a bad experience and I think you just have to be careful. Puppies are so impressionable before 4 months you really want to set them up so all experiences are good ones.

ETA that walking around the dog park (even outside the gate) is a great way to introduce puppies to other people, everyone there loves dogs and wants to meet the puppy and generally they are pretty good about it...... its a bonus for socializing with dogs and people if you can do it in a controlled (or somewhat lol) manor.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

Lindbert said:


> Puppies don't get a rabies shot until they are 12 weeks old. We all know there are some rather... nasty people who go to dog parks. Puppies are mouthy creatures with teeth like needles. It's very easy for a puppy to grab onto someone and due to their razor sharp teeth unintentionally draw blood.
> 
> There was a 10 week old black lab puppy who got a little bit excited and nipped someone who was playing with him at our local dog park. The nip drew blood but wasn't serious at all. Animal control was called and since the puppy didn't have a rabies shot, there was a mandated 10 day quarantine at a boarding facility, shelter, or veterinarian's clinic. The shelter's bylaws required the owners to surrender the dog in order for it to be boarded there, and they could apply to adopt him once the hold was up. The owners couldn't afford to do 10 days of boarding at a kennel or veterinarian's clinic, so they opted to surrender him to the shelter thinking they would get the dog back. Ten days go by, the owners try to adopt the puppy back but they are DENIED because they surrendered an animal to a shelter within the past year. Puppy is euthanized on day 11 because the shelter was full and large breed black dogs (even puppies) with a bite history are considered unadoptable.


OMG!! That is horrible! My parents lost ownership of their BC in a similar story. He escaped, AC picked him up, had to be quarantined for 10 days, mom had to surrender ownership due to the fees and when she went back to get him after the quarantine, wasnt allowed to adopt him back. At least he wasnt killed though; he got a good home.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Lindbert said:


> Puppies don't get a rabies shot until they are 12 weeks old. We all know there are some rather... nasty people who go to dog parks. Puppies are mouthy creatures with teeth like needles. It's very easy for a puppy to grab onto someone and due to their razor sharp teeth unintentionally draw blood.
> 
> There was a 10 week old black lab puppy who got a little bit excited and nipped someone who was playing with him at our local dog park. The nip drew blood but wasn't serious at all. Animal control was called and since the puppy didn't have a rabies shot, there was a mandated 10 day quarantine at a boarding facility, shelter, or veterinarian's clinic. The shelter's bylaws required the owners to surrender the dog in order for it to be boarded there, and they could apply to adopt him once the hold was up. The owners couldn't afford to do 10 days of boarding at a kennel or veterinarian's clinic, so they opted to surrender him to the shelter thinking they would get the dog back. Ten days go by, the owners try to adopt the puppy back but they are DENIED because they surrendered an animal to a shelter within the past year. Puppy is euthanized on day 11 because the shelter was full and large breed black dogs (even puppies) with a bite history are considered unadoptable.


Jesus Christ, that's horrible!


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Lindbert said:


> Ten days go by, the owners try to adopt the puppy back but they are DENIED because they surrendered an animal to a shelter within the past year. Puppy is euthanized on day 11 because the shelter was full and large breed black dogs (even puppies) with a bite history are considered unadoptable.


 In my opinion that is murder. If there is a family that used to own the dog and -want- the dog, and the dog is about to be killed, I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse. None in the world.


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

I can't believe the girls that owned the puppy would say that. If you know how to take care of dogs you would not be there. I was told by my vet to not go to dog parks until they are fully vaccinated. I didn't take maggie to one until she was 4 months old. ughh it is sad but people in the world like this exist.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

OMG that's awful! I can't imagine what I would have done if that would have happened to my dogs... Yikes!


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

I am just going to throw this out there...I think we should have an "Idiot Registry". You will have to endanger something like a dog or child and if you are put on this list you will be monitored lol its just a joke but I sure wish there weren't quite so many irresponsible people out there.


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## Bird-Dog (Dec 24, 2008)

Sadly, I don't think there's a computer/database in the world large enough to handle the load.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

tigress said:


> Ok, curious, I can easily understand the arguement from a "Not a good place to socialize at so young. Could traumatize them against dogs later on in life."
> 
> But I'm pretty sure puppies can and do get the first of their puppy shots before 9 weeks (or rather at 2 months it is quite possible the dog has been vaccinated). If the puppy is vaccinated (properly, like I know for puppy shots they have to get another in 3 weeks and if the first shots were given before 9 weeks they'll also need a third set), why is it still dangerous (from parvo and distemper at least which I know the basic combo shot covers) for the puppy? I'd guess there might be other diseases but a lot of the conversation in this thread seems to be the biggest worry is parvo.
> 
> From what I understand, the parvo shot is pretty effective against parvo (I was a receptionist at a vet clinic and I know he told me it was very very rare to see a dog that had parvo that had been vaccinated, in fact, all of the dogs I saw that came in that ended up having parvo were unvaccinated). Not as sure about distemper but from what I understand it's a pretty effective vaccine too.


It's a series. One shot doesn't do it.
Like we have Hep B 3-shot series. We aren't immunized until we've had all 3 in the series. Neither are puppies.


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

Active Dog said:


> I am just going to throw this out there...I think we should have an "Idiot Registry". You will have to endanger something like a dog or child and if you are put on this list you will be monitored lol its just a joke but I sure wish there weren't quite so many irresponsible people out there.


hahaha I agree!! 



Bird-Dog said:


> Sadly, I don't think there's a computer/database in the world large enough to handle the load.


This is true!!!!!


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

tigress said:


> Ok, curious, I can easily understand the arguement from a "Not a good place to socialize at so young. Could traumatize them against dogs later on in life."
> 
> But I'm pretty sure puppies can and do get the first of their puppy shots before 9 weeks (or rather at 2 months it is quite possible the dog has been vaccinated). If the puppy is vaccinated (properly, like I know for puppy shots they have to get another in 3 weeks and if the first shots were given before 9 weeks they'll also need a third set), why is it still dangerous (from parvo and distemper at least which I know the basic combo shot covers) for the puppy? I'd guess there might be other diseases but a lot of the conversation in this thread seems to be the biggest worry is parvo.
> 
> From what I understand, the parvo shot is pretty effective against parvo (I was a receptionist at a vet clinic and I know he told me it was very very rare to see a dog that had parvo that had been vaccinated, in fact, all of the dogs I saw that came in that ended up having parvo were unvaccinated). Not as sure about distemper but from what I understand it's a pretty effective vaccine too.


Puppies immune system is not developed until the puppy is 16 weeks old. Before that, tho we do vaccinate, the Mother's antibodies may still be present from the colostrum. The vaccines do not work in the face of the Mother's Antibodies. Thing is.. we do not know for SURE if they have the RIGHT antibodies. The puppy's immune system is maturing just like the digestive system... so we vaccinate before 16 weeks to fill gaps and HOPE the puppy's immune system recognizes the vaccination and makes antibodies. 

By 16 weeks, the Mother's antibodies are gone and the puppy has a well enough developed immune system to be able to have an active immune response to the vaccination. This vaccination immune response takes 2-3 weeks to fully develop after vaccination happens at 16 weeks old.


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