# Should you take puppy out at night to potty if he doesn't whine in his crate?



## puppynewbie (Apr 16, 2013)

I have a 12 week old Pom/Pekingese. I'm still working on day potty training (I posted a question about him learning to pretend to potty in another thread) but I have another question for night time. 

I've been taking him out every 2 hours (I usually stop water intake at about 7pm; we go to bed [crated for the little guy] at around 10:00-10:30, up between 5 and 7). At first he we would go potty when I took him out a night but now he (normally) sleeps soundly as soon as I put him in. When I go to wake up (without him whining; just 2 hours on the dot) he usually flops down on the ground (like, "hey! I was sleeping!!") or walks outside "pretends" to pee and then walks back (or sometimes, flops down). When I put him back in the crate, he sometimes goes crazy (barking fits for 20 mins before he calms down). Sometimes I wish I never woke him up!

If he's not whining and seems to sleep just fine, do I need to wake him up? He has never peed in his crate (not that I've really given him a chance; luckily somebody is usually with him 23 hours of the day) but I'm afraid to give him the chance.

Also, if he wakes up whining and I take him out does that teach him that if he whines somebody will let him out if he makes enough noise?

I do not want him to have little dog syndrome so I am hopeful that I am doing this right! 

Thank you for your help


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

I would definitely continue to take him outside at night. A puppy that young physically can't hold their bladder for more than a few hours. Just to be safe, even if you haven't had many accidents, it's always best to keep a routine until he's old enough to have more control.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Agreed. I would keep taking him out for now, until he gets a bit older and especially since he's small.


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## puppynewbie (Apr 16, 2013)

What's a bit longer? Is the rule 1hr of "holding" for 1 month of age a good rule of thumb?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

puppynewbie said:


> What's a bit longer? Is the rule 1hr of "holding" for 1 month of age a good rule of thumb?



Eh, both of mine were sleeping through at 4-5 months. Mostly, barring emergencies like "OMG, I SHOULDN"T HAVE EATEN THAT, I AM GOING TO CRAP MY BRAINS OUT!" trips


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## puppynewbie (Apr 16, 2013)

so... about 2 months until I can have a full nights sleep. This little guy might break me!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

puppynewbie said:


> so... about 2 months until I can have a full nights sleep. This little guy might break me!


Pft. I got (read found) a puppy on Father's Day that was born on or around Mother's day - 4 weeks old. June-July we were up every 2 hours. August, September, and into October we were only getting up once a night. November and most of December were glorious and we slept all night. Then end of December we found a 6 week old who was mostly dead from hypothermia and continued to have major intestinal issues for a couple of months. So we were up every 45 minutes-1 hour with him through January. Feb. he was a little better and he was 'only' a couple of times (in an 8 hour night....). March we finally hit once a night. This month, 11 months after first puppy came home we are starting to have SOME nights where we get to sleep in. 

Out of the past year, I have had THREE MONTHS of sleeping through the night.

I do not want to talk about house training and basic obedience and bite inhibition and how very, very done I am with it. My first puppy was an angel. She was still a puppy. The second is no angel, and while very sweet is still only 5 months old and OMG have I mentioned how done with this I am? 

My human children were not this bad.

...excuse me for the off topic rant. On the other hand... perspective?


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

if you see your current schedule may be the cause of starting unwanted behaviors you should play with the schedule time at night add an extra hour or two and play it by ear. Never owned a small breed, even as puppies the large breeds are quick to sleep through the night at a young age and I have always waited for them to stir in the night before I took them outside. Puppies sleep and when they not, they need something


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

PatriciafromCO said:


> even as puppies the large breeds are quick to sleep through the night at a young ag


Could you come have a word with Thud...?


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## puppynewbie (Apr 16, 2013)

I am going to try and add an hour and see what happens. I am just scared that if he stirs and I go get him that will teach him to stir to get out; does that make sense?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I took my puppy out on schedule every night, and gradually lengthened the time before I took him out. So to start, we went to bed at 10pm and took him out around 2am, then woke up at 6am. Gradually we were getting up at 3am, 4am, and then letting him sleep the whole night.

I didn't want to encourage whining in the crate for any reason because I could tell early on that being quiet in the crate would be an issue for him (still is) so I chose to do it that way. Other people wait for the dog to whine and that works for them and the dog doesn't generalize that they can whine and get taken out any time they want.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Yes, I think adding an hour might be ok. Of course, if he pees in the crate before you take him out, then he wasn't ready for that extra hour.

Every puppy is different. And, I am a big proponent of the fact that not all dogs can hold it as long as others, especially small breeds. But, my older dachshund was sleeping through the night at 3 months. He really, really loves his sleep!  And really, really doesn't want to get out of bed!

The thing about not wanting him to get in the habit of being let out when he stirs.....as long as your middle of the night potty trip is extremely boring, and all about business, you shouldn't have too much of a problem. If you allow any playing, or if you coo and cuddle him, then that might be something he might try to get let out for, even if he doesn't need to pee. But, if it's boring, out to pee, then straight back to bed, no talking, etc. then it's not anything to look forward to.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

puppynewbie said:


> I am going to try and add an hour and see what happens. I am just scared that if he stirs and I go get him that will teach him to stir to get out; does that make sense?


totally agree with this.. It's on my mind when I do respond to a new pup.. Try to keep it calm in this situation purely mechanical of a need to go outside and back inside to sleep.. the less attention the better. I can sleep through a hurricane, but funny if a puppy or dog stirs and is staring at me it wakes me.. lol ... So I am able to get them out before they start to go to the next level of whining or barking to get my attention.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Pft. I got (read found) a puppy on Father's Day that was born on or around Mother's day - 4 weeks old. June-July we were up every 2 hours. August, September, and into October we were only getting up once a night. November and most of December were glorious and we slept all night. Then end of December we found a 6 week old who was mostly dead from hypothermia and continued to have major intestinal issues for a couple of months. So we were up every 45 minutes-1 hour with him through January. Feb. he was a little better and he was 'only' a couple of times (in an 8 hour night....). March we finally hit once a night. This month, 11 months after first puppy came home we are starting to have SOME nights where we get to sleep in.
> 
> Out of the past year, I have had THREE MONTHS of sleeping through the night.
> 
> ...


Big, big hugs!

I think my human kids didn't really let me sleep until each was about 2. 

I'm gearing up for sleepless nights with a new pup. Then, we're planning on getting another pup next year. I'm optimistically thinking that this means that I'll get a full nights sleep sometime in 2015.


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## voodookitten (Nov 25, 2012)

Is this where I get yelled at? If your dog is asleep - I would leave it. I wouldn't have believed that any pup could hold their bladder overnight until I witnessed it myself with BOTH our pups.

Each dog and pup to their own I say. Kayla wasn't crated as I was too much of a softie to handle the crying, she slept on our bed for the first 2 months. She went to bed with us at 10'ish and would wake up at 3-4 for a wee then crash back out until 8am. She did that for 3 days and then slept right through. Yes, 10pm-7am. No accidents.

We thought how lucky we were.

We now have Kylie. Kylie goes to bed with us at 10 and sleeps through until 530-6am when I get up. Doesnt wake up or need to wee. She has had one accident and that was during the day. She is 10 weeks old. We got her at 8 weeks.

We are lucky enough to be able to have a door open 24/7 all day and night with outside access, but it only gets used during the day. They dont wake up at night at all and if you try wake them up to take them out - they think its play time and dont wee anyway!

No, we didnt do anything special, we were just bloody lucky.

I read so much on these forums and my heart breaks for everyone that goes through this, I bet our next pup will totally suck!

So yeah, if puppy can hold it for longer and is sleeping, I would give it a go and if you have problems, go back to square one.


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## missPenny (Oct 2, 2012)

Our 12 year old can only sleep 6 hours before needing to go out. Vet says nothings wrong she just isn't one of those dogs who can hold it 8 9 10 hours. Our 1 year old though...hell..at 10 weeks old she was sleeping from 11 pm to 7 am. SHE would give ME attitude if I tried to get her out of the crate in the morning or middle of the night to go outside. Like "No way mom, not getting out of bed yet." I wish all puppies were like that lol So I personally wouldn't wake him up to go out if he's sleeping. Enjoy the sleep while you can, but definitely still be alert to the puppy and don't expect too many miracles, puppies can't control their bladders until at least 6 months.


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## Brydean (Apr 3, 2008)

voodookitten said:


> Is this where I get yelled at? If your dog is asleep - I would leave it. I wouldn't have believed that any pup could hold their bladder overnight until I witnessed it myself with BOTH our pups.
> .


I agree! I always firmly believed never wake a sleeping child and when I got a pup I switched it to never wake a sleeping dog!! Actually isn't there an old saying about let sleeping dogs lie! LOL

We got our dog a poodle/schnauzer at 12 weeks. Never got up during the night to let him out. We usually would let him out at around midnight, then my husband would let him out when he got up at 6-6:30.
By 4-5 months old he would sleep until 8-9 am.
Depends on the dog.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

voodookitten said:


> Is this where I get yelled at? If your dog is asleep - I would leave it. I wouldn't have believed that any pup could hold their bladder overnight until I witnessed it myself with BOTH our pups.
> 
> Each dog and pup to their own I say. Kayla wasn't crated as I was too much of a softie to handle the crying, she slept on our bed for the first 2 months. She went to bed with us at 10'ish and would wake up at 3-4 for a wee then crash back out until 8am. She did that for 3 days and then slept right through. Yes, 10pm-7am. No accidents.
> 
> ...


This! 

Also, if you limit the puppies water after a certain time then it may empty it's bladder at it's last pee and not need to go out. We got Zoey at about 4 months old and within 3 - 4 weeks she was pretty much sleeping through the night. If I remember correctly our last dog was much younger and after the initial transition and being housebroken (about 2 weeks) was sleeping through the night.

But if it doesn't work out then you do what you need to do. You may not get the whole night but maybe you can tack on a few hours before needing to take the pup out.


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## Kobismom (Dec 17, 2012)

CptJack said:


> Eh, both of mine were sleeping through at 4-5 months. Mostly, barring emergencies like "OMG, I SHOULDN"T HAVE EATEN THAT, I AM GOING TO CRAP MY BRAINS OUT!" trips


We did the same thing. Kobi figured out within a week of us having him (we got him at 8 weeks old) that if he cried or whimpered, we'd take him out. Within 2 days of him being with us, he started sleeping about 4-5 hours at a shot...would cry to let us know he needed to go out. Within a week, he was sleeping 6-8 hours in the crate without a peep from him. He's never messed his crate in the 5+ months we've had him....we're so proud of out little guy!!


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## BabyG (Apr 16, 2013)

No, dont wake him up, Whining is your signal, thats good : ) You should let him sleep with you, if he does that good, or you should leave the door open. you really should be useing a potty pad till he has all his Puppy shots. Sounds like you have a good Baby


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## rubberlegs (Feb 21, 2013)

Glad I read this thread. I use to take my pup out every 2 hours, then 3 hours... now she is 15 weeks and seems to go between 4-5 hours without needing to go. Sometimes she will go only once a night. Lately I've been waking her up to take her out and she refuses to move from her bed. I'll let her rest from now on 

BabyG - when you say let him sleep with you, most places I've read has said to make your bedroom out of bounds for your pup. Does this still count if she is in her crate in my room only from bed time until sunrise?


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## BabyG (Apr 16, 2013)

I have never made any room off limites, Thats there home, Treat her like your Baby, shes going to love sleeping with you. and Youll love it to. and she will wake you up if she has to go.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Zoey sleeps in the crate in the family room. My last dog slept there as well except once she could be trusted she wasn't crated. We are giving Zoey some more freedoms in the house than we did our last one where we are allowing Zoey to come upstairs and be with us; we didn't allow Maggie upstairs and for the longest time she wasn't allowed to roam the house.


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## voodookitten (Nov 25, 2012)

rubberlegs said:


> most places I've read has said to make your bedroom out of bounds for your pup. Does this still count if she is in her crate in my room only from bed time until sunrise?


I read that too - and never found the reason other than the whole alpha thing. Ugh. I suppose though with arrogant/pushy or older dogs/rescues that dont know the rules and you dont want to confuse them etc etc it would make sense but from a 'our' puppy perspective? My 7 month old slept on our bed as a pup and only moved to the ground because she got too bloody big (7 months, 30+ kilos). Our new pup is 5-6 kilos @ 10 weeks/baby girl and sleeps in between mine and my husbands pillows. Or between my husbands legs as all animals in our house know that if you sleep between mums legs I WILL boot you off as it annoys the crap out of me. I need my space lol. Kylie (little pup) will be on the floor as soon as she gets too big for the bed and its all good. 

Then maybe the cats will come back. I miss them. Sometimes. When they are on my husbands side.


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## Kobismom (Dec 17, 2012)

Kobi's crate has always been in our bedroom. If he does need to go out in the middle of the night (which is rare, but still happens on occasion), he's give a soft wimper, which wakes us up. We wouldn't hear it if he was in another room, so he would probably end up barking and wake the neighbors. Definitely don't want that.


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## AkCrimson (Oct 12, 2011)

All dogs are different! Bowser was holding it for 7-8 hours by the time he was 4 months old. My Papillion is 16 months old and he still can't hold it for more than 6hours. 

Good luck =)


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

rubberlegs said:


> Glad I read this thread. I use to take my pup out every 2 hours, then 3 hours... now she is 15 weeks and seems to go between 4-5 hours without needing to go. Sometimes she will go only once a night. Lately I've been waking her up to take her out and she refuses to move from her bed. I'll let her rest from now on
> 
> BabyG - when you say let him sleep with you, most places I've read has said to make your bedroom out of bounds for your pup. Does this still count if she is in her crate in my room only from bed time until sunrise?


Really? I've never seen that (the part about making your bedroom off limits to your pup....
Even if I HAD read that somewhere, it wouldn't have happened! 

A great many of here recommend having your pup's crate in your room, especially when you just get the pup. They're scared, they're in a new place, and sometimes just smelling you, or hearing you breathe can really go a long way toward comforting a puppy. If you do not want the puppy always sleeping in your room you can transition them to another room, little by little, as they get more comfortable.

But, for us, our puppies slept in our bed since they were potty trained. Still do, though they're not puppies anymore!  Wouldn't have it any other way!
And, they certainly have not overtaken us, or become the alpha over us, or any of that crap.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

doxiemommy said:


> Really? I've never seen that (the part about making your bedroom off limits to your pup....
> Even if I HAD read that somewhere, it wouldn't have happened!
> 
> A great many of here recommend having your pup's crate in your room, especially when you just get the pup. They're scared, they're in a new place, and sometimes just smelling you, or hearing you breathe can really go a long way toward comforting a puppy. If you do not want the puppy always sleeping in your room you can transition them to another room, little by little, as they get more comfortable.
> ...



Yeah, we're hitting major issues with Thud ("Major" being not very). The other dogs sleep in bedrooms and with people. Thud is too big to be comfortable on the bed, already, isn't old enough to be trusted loose in the house or even room (he eats furniture and cords like it's his job) and screams blue murder when he's crated in the dining room. But his crate won't FIT in any of our bedrooms. 

Dogs don't like being separated and alone, and well they shouldn't. We selectively bred them to want to be with us, and puppies alone are prey.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Bummer about Thud, that's a tricky one!
We have been lucky with our dogs, I keep reminding my husband any time one of our dogs does something dumb, we could have worse problems!  Not that Thud is a problem....

But, our dog are so easy going, and, behavioral problem free, except for Harper's reactivity, which is getting better.....


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

doxiemommy said:


> Bummer about Thud, that's a tricky one!
> We have been lucky with our dogs, I keep reminding my husband any time one of our dogs does something dumb, we could have worse problems!  Not that Thud is a problem....
> 
> But, our dog are so easy going, and, behavioral problem free, except for Harper's reactivity, which is getting better.....


Eh, Kylie was one of those creepy easy puppies, Jack and Bug have always been extremely well behaved (came that way). I figure the universe knew I was due for a normal dog and sent Thud. He's got no real issues, he's just. A normal puppy. It's okay.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yeah, we're hitting major issues with Thud ("Major" being not very). The other dogs sleep in bedrooms and with people. Thud is too big to be comfortable on the bed, already, isn't old enough to be trusted loose in the house or even room (he eats furniture and cords like it's his job) and screams blue murder when he's crated in the dining room. But his crate won't FIT in any of our bedrooms.
> 
> Dogs don't like being separated and alone, and well they shouldn't. We selectively bred them to want to be with us, and puppies alone are prey.


This is definitely going to be a thing for us. Our pup won't be able to sleep in beds with us once he's full grown. It would be like adding another adult human to the bed.  I love napping with a pup cuddled up next to me, though, so I might find myself napping on a dog bed now and then!  We're planning to crate him in our room at night and have a smaller temporary crate for naps and breaks in the living area. We want him close and out of trouble, without learning to knock us out of bed.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

packetsmom said:


> This is definitely going to be a thing for us. Our pup won't be able to sleep in beds with us once he's full grown. It would be like adding another adult human to the bed.  I love napping with a pup cuddled up next to me, though, so I might find myself napping on a dog bed now and then!  We're planning to crate him in our room at night and have a smaller temporary crate for naps and breaks in the living area. We want him close and out of trouble, without learning to knock us out of bed.




Yeah. That's why Thud was in a smaller crate in our room. Even without the other dog's crates (which are mostly used in the mornings) there wouldn't be room for Thud's. We have a 100+ year old farmhouse and the rooms are small. Thud's crate is LITERALLY the size of my bathroom. I'm going to take a suggestion and try tethering, soon. 

Thud's big enough to be a PINTA to me, at 50lbs/5 months. He's got the size of a good sized adult dog, but doesn't have the brain/maturity. I do not envy you and Mana's owner  Love the dogs, but my preferences run somewhere in the 15-40lb range, you know? This is new and oddly perplexing for me.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yeah. That's why Thud was in a smaller crate in our room. Even without the other dog's crates (which are mostly used in the mornings) there wouldn't be room for Thud's. We have a 100+ year old farmhouse and the rooms are small. Thud's crate is LITERALLY the size of my bathroom. I'm going to take a suggestion and try tethering, soon.
> 
> Thud's big enough to be a PINTA to me, at 50lbs/5 months. He's got the size of a good sized adult dog, but doesn't have the brain/maturity. I do not envy you and Mana's owner  Love the dogs, but my preferences run somewhere in the 15-40lb range, you know? This is new and oddly perplexing for me.


I guess it helps that I grew up with horses and livestock and always thought it would be great to have a pony in the house?


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yeah. That's why Thud was in a smaller crate in our room. Even without the other dog's crates (which are mostly used in the mornings) there wouldn't be room for Thud's. We have a 100+ year old farmhouse and the rooms are small. Thud's crate is LITERALLY the size of my bathroom. I'm going to take a suggestion and try tethering, soon.
> 
> Thud's big enough to be a PINTA to me, at 50lbs/5 months. He's got the size of a good sized adult dog, but doesn't have the brain/maturity. I do not envy you and Mana's owner  Love the dogs, but my preferences run somewhere in the 15-40lb range, you know? This is new and oddly perplexing for me.


Yup Manna has hit 75#....probably working close to 80# now. When she sits next to me her head reaches around my bottom ribs, so since I'm 5'4" that makes her ~ 2' 10" high at head. 

As for the crate, if she isn't crated she'll eat the house, or run through the walls of the house (I have holes as proof). It's literally for her safety, the houses safety and our sanity that she be crated while we sleep and are working. But we love her to death and wouldn't trade her for the world even when she's destroying our new house.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I never have a schedule. I like my sleep so I take it if the dog will give it to me.  Mia wouldn't sleep much as a pup but it wasn't that she needed to go, she wanted to play. I wasn't going to cater to her and create bad habits of waking me up to go play. By about 15 weeks though she was sleeping on the bed because she was screaming all night. And she'd sleep until about 5 then I'd let her out and go back to bed. She learned not to get off the bed really fast and would just sit there and stare at me until I woke up. 

If your dog is sleeping I wouldn't bother getting up.


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