# Healthy Dog Food



## Dave|Xoxide (Mar 9, 2006)

Everyone wants healthy dog food for their dog. However, many people have different opinions on what makes a healthy dog food. Personally I prefer food that is mostly natural, but also fortified with some vitamins and minerals. I don't know what chemicals to really watch out for, so I just try and find foods without many chemicals I've never heard of. At the same time, I not all about the 100% natural stuff.

Are there specific chemicals to watch out for? Are there specific chemicals that are good that most people don't konw about? Do you think 100% natural is the best? Are foods fortified with vitamins and minerals good or bad? Please share any information or opinions you have on what makes for healthy dog food.


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## Alpha (Aug 24, 2006)

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

This is a great link to a friend of mine on another site who has done many studies on dog foods. She helped me decide on Eagle Pack 

Her site is just full of information regarding, what ingredients to watch out for, and what you want.

There is actual a page on that site, that is labelled "ingredients to avoid"

A few are:
Glyceryl Monostearate 
Phosphoric Acid 
Propylene Glycol 
Corn Gluten 
Wheat Gluten

To name just a few. 

I feed the Holistic Chicken Select forumla by Eagle Pack. The ingredients in there are better than what I eat most of the time  LOL

I believe her e-mail address is posted on that site, and she is more than happy to help people decide on a brand. She's great in determining what brands are available to you and what would be best out of those for your dog 

Why I think the food i feed is good? 

The first few ingredients are things like: chicken meal, ground brown and white rice, chicken fat, pork meal

NO corn anywhere on the ingredients. And it's also got a vitamin B12 supplement.


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## dogluver101 (Jul 6, 2006)

I love these foods. California Natural, Innova, Healthwise. THey are all great foods and they do not taste that bad either.


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## Danegirl2208 (Jul 6, 2006)

i feed a raw prey model diet..its all i will ever feed, i like knowing exactly what goes into my dogs meals each day


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## opokki (May 30, 2006)

Here is a pretty general list of things I avoid and things I look for when choosing a food:

Ingredients to avoid:
unspecific meats (meat meal, animal by-product meal)
plant proteins (soybean meal, corn gluten meal)
unspecific fats (vegetable oil, animal fat)
beef tallow
flours (rice flour, soy flour, wheat flour)
preservatives such as BHT, BHA, Ethoxyquin
corn syrup
artifical colors
artifical flavors

Ingredients to look for:
whole ground grains (ground brown rice, ground barely)
named meat and meat meals (chicken, turkey meal)
named organ meats (chicken liver, beef lung)
named fats (salmon oil, chicken fat, flaxseed oil)
preservatives such as mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract


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## goldenlvr (Sep 4, 2006)

The best things to avoid are wheat gluten, soy, corn, and dairy. Also, chemicals are never good for dogs, and fillers. Even meats that have "by-product" after them are dangerous. Basically what everyone else is saying as well.


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## MAX (Sep 12, 2006)

*An All natural Food*

Bravo to those who posted on what ingredients to avoid. Read the labels as you would for your own foods. I have settled on Flint River Ranch and my dog is healthy and happy.

*Content Removed*

In a pinch I will buy Nutro at a local store if I run out.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Max, I am assuming that is your webpage, judging by your username. Advertising for personal gain is not allowed on this forum.


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## MAX (Sep 12, 2006)

"Assume a virtue, if you have it not"


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Nevermind, I'm just deleting the ad. My job here is to enforce the rules. >-\/-<


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## bigdawgs (May 21, 2006)

I have always given vit c and ester e as a supplement, and added brewers yeast a couple of times a week.
ACV in the water is also good for digestion and coat. (apple cider vinegar)


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## Pitbull (Sep 24, 2006)

I already posted this on a similar thread but I can repost it because I always find positive feedbacks from it:

If you need some more info on which dog food to choose, here's a good place to start:

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

Here are my personal choices for good quality dog kibble:
- Timberwolf Organics: Timberwolf Organics - Herbal Natural Pet Food
- Merrick: Merrick Pet Foods
- Nature's Variety: Nature’s Variety
- Wellness: Old Mother Hubbard
- Innova: http://www.naturapet.com
- Canidae: All Natural, Human Grade, Holistic Pet Foods. Dog Food, Cat Food, Kitten Food, Dog Biscuits, & Canidae Platinum Diet

The foods I would definately avoid:
- Pedigree
- Iams
- Purina
- Eukaneuba
- Science Diet
- Ol Roy

Here are some non-kibble foods that I personally like:
- Healthy Paws: Healthy Paws Incorporated - Fresh to Frozen pet food supplier
- Urban Wolf: All Natural Grain-Free Pre-mix for Raw Homemade Dog Foods - Mix With Raw or Cooked Meat & serve. raw holistic dog foods, raw barf, raw barf homemade dog foods, natural pet foods, natural barf dog foods


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## Wisdombestowed (Feb 18, 2007)

Any name brand will be good for a dog until their later years where they will probably require a more specialized diet.
I would trust anything with a name brand on the package.
As far as the meats are concerned, even the by-products are fine. Think of what a canine/wolf would eat in the wild. Muscle and organs, you name it they pretty much pick it clean and anything that comes natural is (according to most) a good thing. Rabbit, duck, venison, chicken, beef, you name it, it's all good. I would avoid soy ingredients when choosing a brand. Purina uses soy in some of their food and if you spend a little extra you can get pork in place of the soy from Hill's and Royal Canine. Soy = never good but 90% of the time won't do any kind of damage.
Omega 3 fatty acids (fish oils) and joint formulas in at LEAST maintenance doses can be very beneficial for the mid to large breeds. Just expect to pay more and as with most consumables, you get what you pay for.


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## Pamela (Feb 19, 2007)

Wow! I have never heard of some of the brands listed in the posts. I feed Duke large breed Iams and Dutchess Iams puppy food. They love it and Duke has done wonderful on Iams. there are so many to choose from. Are the ones listed above bought online or in specialty stores? Just curious since I have never heard of them. We have to drive an hour away just to buy Iams and 3 hours to get to a Petco or PetsMart.


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## Captbob (Feb 2, 2007)

This is copied from Post 2 on the thread below.


http://www.dogforums.com/5-dog-food-forum/4935-lab-question.html

*How to grade your dog's food:
Start with a grade of 100:

1) For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points

2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points

3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points

4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source,subtract 5 points

5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewerâ?Ts rice", "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points

6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points

7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points

8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3points

9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 morepoints

10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil,subtract 2 points

11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isnâ?Tt allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points

14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isnâ?Tt allergic to beef), subtract 1 point

15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit:

1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points

2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or
nutritionist, add 5 points

3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points

4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points

5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points

8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points

9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points

10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point

11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point

12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than
the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point

13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free, add 1 point

94-100+ = A
86-93 = B
78-85 = C
70-77 = D

69 = F

Here are some foods that have already been scored.

Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+

Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F

Canidae / Score 112 A+

Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F

Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B

Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A


Foundations / Score 106 A+

Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 D

Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D

Innova Dog / Score 114 A+

Innova Evo / Score 114 A+

Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+

Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+

Natural Balance Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+

Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B

Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F

ProPlan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+

Purina Benful / Score 17 F

Purina Dog / Score 62 F

Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F

Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+

Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+

Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A

Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F

Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F

Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+

Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A*


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

Pamela said:


> Wow! I have never heard of some of the brands listed in the posts. I feed Duke large breed Iams and Dutchess Iams puppy food. They love it and Duke has done wonderful on Iams. there are so many to choose from. Are the ones listed above bought online or in specialty stores? Just curious since I have never heard of them. We have to drive an hour away just to buy Iams and 3 hours to get to a Petco or PetsMart.


Most are sold in specialty types of pet stores. Petsmart does have a few of them. If you have a feed store near you you may find a great dog food that will be better then the IAMS and save you money int he long run since you drive so far to buy the IAMS anyway.


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## Captbob (Feb 2, 2007)

Tankstar said:


> Most are sold in specialty types of pet stores. Petsmart does have a few of them. If you have a feed store near you you may find a great dog food that will be better then the IAMS and save you money int he long run since you drive so far to buy the IAMS anyway.


Natural Balance is sold at Petco.


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## MagicToller (Jan 4, 2007)

The grading scale Captbob posted from the other thread is a good way to gauge the food interms of nutrients and ingredients. Preservatives like BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin are ones to watch out for in particular. My Toller and Border Collie are on Half-Raw diets, with Solid Gold Barking at the Moon as their half-Kibble.


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## pixiepunk (Feb 19, 2007)

i've been feeding my cats Flint River Ranch, and just ordered some for my puppy too. i'll have to do the scoring to see how they measure up. i like that i can order them online and have it shipped to my house (shipping is free), since i live in the boonies and even the nearest feed store is 30 minutes away - nearest pet shop is at least 45 minutes.

i'm kind of anal about what i eat and what i feed my children, and that extends to my dogs to. some of the stuff in commercial pet food is just plain disgusting, IMO.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Where do you get shipping for free on dog food?


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## pixiepunk (Feb 19, 2007)

www.flintriverranch.com - they do not charge any shipping. i scored one of their dog foods with the scoring system posted earlier in the thread, and they scored a 100.


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

Holy crapola! I have always fed my dog (and cats) Purina and I feed my dog Purina Beneful...it scored a flipping 17%! I went out today and bought a bag of Nutro Max Natural which is much better, but now reading this and seeing how high Natural Balance scored I think I want to try that! We've never even changed her food because I KNOW how awful that is, but I think I'll stick to this new one until they finish building the Petco here and I can get the Natural Balance. I mixed the last the Nutro with the last bit of her Purina and she actually seemed to prefer the Nutro!

And a side note...Bridgette (my dog) is looking at me like I am some kind of crazy person as I sit here at the computer with my bag of dog food on my lap...I guess to the dog this might be really strange!


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## Captbob (Feb 2, 2007)

Wisdombestowed said:


> Any name brand will be good for a dog until their later years where they will probably require a more specialized diet.
> I would trust anything with a name brand on the package.
> As far as the meats are concerned, even the by-products are fine. Think of what a canine/wolf would eat in the wild. Muscle and organs, you name it they pretty much pick it clean and anything that comes natural is (according to most) a good thing. Rabbit, duck, venison, chicken, beef, you name it, it's all good. I would avoid soy ingredients when choosing a brand. Purina uses soy in some of their food and if you spend a little extra you can get pork in place of the soy from Hill's and Royal Canine. Soy = never good but 90% of the time won't do any kind of damage.
> Omega 3 fatty acids (fish oils) and joint formulas in at LEAST maintenance doses can be very beneficial for the mid to large breeds. Just expect to pay more and as with most consumables, you get what you pay for.


Skip a couple of Starbucks a week, and most people can afford some good and healthy food for their dog.


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

I agree on the skipping Starbucks thing. I mean I am a college student (online classes) and I still plan to spend more on dog food if that's what it takes to keep Bridgette healthy. I think having a dog (or any pet) is a major responsibility and I personally would want to make sure I am doing everything in my power to keep her as healthy and happy as possible. We just switched to this new brand that's yeah, a little more than what we were paying fo before, but I feel better about it because I know she is eating much healthier now.


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## lawlady (Feb 4, 2007)

In the scheme of things, we spend a fortune on Zavie's dog food. We buy Wellness for him. At first, my husband really protested the price, saying that any ol' dog food was good enough--didn't matter i bought the Wellness anyway. LOL! Now he sees how nice Zavie's coat is, how small his poop his, and just how generally healthy-looking he is, and hubby is a total convert. He even, on his own without me saying a thing, switched our cat over to Wellness cat food and didn't even bat an eye at the $17.00 price tag on the bag. Believe me, that's a huge accomplishment!!! LOL!

The last time he stopped at the feed store to buy some Wellness, this other man noticed the bag my husband was holding and told him, "Ya better watch out, 'cuz if you keep feeding your dog that stuff he's gonna out-live you!!!" I just thought that was cute!

I give my pup and my cat the same consideration that i give my human family members. I read the labels. I wouldn't feed them junk and expect them to be healthy, so why would i feed it to my pets? It's really quite simple for me.

Linda and Zavie


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## cockapoolvr (Dec 25, 2006)

What does everyone think of Blue Buffalo. 
Ben has been eating it lately. He was on dry Nutro All Natural Puppy because of the advise of a trainer, but it seemed to upset his stomach, he threw up several times, so we switched back to Blue Buffalo.
He likes it. What's your opinions?


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## Benni (Dec 30, 2006)

Does anyone know anything about the dog food called Wellness?


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## squirt1968 (Feb 19, 2007)

It is one of the premiem foods. One of the posters on this thread said they feed wellness. I tried it and my dog refused it. I feed Natural Balance


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## maximus (Jul 13, 2007)

First time poster to this forum.

I feed my German Shepherd puppy - now 14 weeks old - Canidae and am very happy with it. Here in Northern VA, it cost us $37+ for 40 pounds which is affordable for me.

If I could not afford it, I'd go with Costco's Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables which is probably the best value in terms of the ingredients. In fact, CaptBob's listing on this thread had it rated an "A" with a score of 110.


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## EXBCMC (Jul 7, 2007)

I didn't want to quote the post that rated all the foods with grades. Outstanding! Thank you. (I thought a quote would take up too much space)


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## EXBCMC (Jul 7, 2007)

Just bought two 40 lb bags of Canidae (sp?) The best part of the whole thing is the EASY open bag! Just lift the re-sealable flap. My God, what took so long to figuer that out! Here is So Calif I paid $33 per 40lb bag. I was very pleasantly surprised.


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## Pomeraanians1587 (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm glad that everyone knows whats good and bad now i hope. I have had a Pomeranian for 3 years now and i have fed it a 100% natural chicken jerky brand called Benniandpenni. I use to get them at Costco but i think they stop selling but i have just found there website and they sell them on there. They even have a lab sample on there website that shows that there treats are the best. If people are interested the website is benniandpenni.com


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## timnbetsy (Nov 16, 2007)

Blue is a fantastic food. . . I would recommend it to anyone with a normal, healthy dog. Their ingredients are good and the processing of the life source bits is great!! Keep feeding it . . . I doubt you will go wrong!


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a cane corso and I had no idea about dog food when I first got him. I started him off on Nutro-which I now know is not a great food. We went through many foods(my poor dog). I now know what to look for in dog food. For me the first 5 ingredients are the most important. there are cheaper foods that dogs do love. But just because a kid love's Mcdonalds everyday doesn't mean we should feed it to them. As long as the food has no kind of corn,soy,wheat,by-products or unspecified meat meal products it is probably pretty good food. I also add merricks canned food and fresh food to his meals. He is 150 lbs and his coat is very soft and shiny. He's two and people comment on how white his teeth are. Oh I feed him Canidae. I was feeding innova but I lost my job and couldn't afford it. Canidae is a very good and affordable food. I also read from a few sites that switching dog foods once or twice a year is good because it makes sure they are getting a balanced mix of nutrients. regardless of what any dog food says, they can not jam a full nutrition plan into one food. that's like saying here is a frozen dinner for humans that is competely balanced. Plus about 30% of the nutrients is killed off in the cooking process so I never understood why people say do not give supplements or extras to the food.


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## cja75 (Jan 2, 2008)

I rotate foods. A great tool is go to :
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/index.php

It lists all the ingredients of ALOT of brands and rates them too. Also they explain the ratings. There a few sights around too that will list every ingredient used in dog food and explain what they are.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

It took a few months to figure out the best foods for our dogs. We tried Canidae, Solid Gold, and Timberwolf Organics but they got diarrhea from all of them. I don't know if they were too rich. Doesn't matter. We finally settled on Flint River Ranch. I've been mixing the regular adult food with some of the lamb food. This seems to work great. No diarrhea. The dogs have great coats and good energy.

We even switched the cats over to FRR. They'd been on a mix of Purina and Meow mix. After just a few months on the food we really noticed a difference in their coats. Houston had been like a wire brush. Now he's got a fuller, softer coat. Wow. I feel guilty about their first 5 years on that crappy food.


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## MyRalphie (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi

Please don't let those more expensive price tags deter you, because you need to feed a lot *less * of the good stuff! The cheaper foods with all the fillers go right through the animal anyway. Like somebody else said, it's like feeding your kids Mickey D's every day. The high premium foods are chock full of actual nutrients beneficial to the animal, so less pooh in the yard, too. 

Rowdy, I can relate to guilt big time. But you can't blame yourself because who knows to dig up all the research on the Internet? We moved and were stuck with vets who push bad food (our real vet never did this) and all of a sudden our dogs were dropping like flies because of misdiagnosis and over-drugging. I finally wised up last January and began digging up research for our surviving dog. (They insisted on "their prescription" food for him and were actually calling our house about it, so at this point I got even more suspicious about them and began finding all the info myself).


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## bryly27 (Jan 8, 2008)

I posted this at a different forum and they said some of the same things that were mentioned here. So here was my post.

I know I am replying to this thread pretty late and I will just like the person whoever started this thread to know that I would rather feed my dog Science Diet and I, myself, already am using it. I understand that everybody here is totally against it but I have put a lot of research into this topic already and just wanted people to hear my point of view.

I have researched many different companies and I believe Science Diet is the best. I do not believe that Science Diet is in it for the money. If you guys know the history of Science Diet, you will understand. Science Diet from what I know is considered the oldest dog food makers. It started with a doctor who had a seeing eye dog which was suffering through kidney disease, something a lot of senior dogs go through. So he developed k/d, the first prescription diet for a dog. Then on, he decided to produce a line of food that would be the most nutritional for dogs. Now the company has over 150 vets, nutritionists that actually work for the product and continues to develop better nutrition.

I believe a lot of companies are more in it for the money than actually caring for pets. Because Science Diet can be found at many suppliers and it is a huge corporation does not mean they are in it for the money. They are more for promoting better nutrition for pet health so more people will use their product.

I had actually called the companies hot line one time and asked them about the by products they used in their food. What I was told was that they used intestines and not bones, beaks, claws, etc... They also told me that it was actually more expensive to use these ingredients. And to let everyone know, chicken meal contains chicken by products. Another I asked about was corn. And from what I knew before and from what they told me, corn is considered something that is actually nutritious for dogs. When the ingredient list says ground whole grain corn, the ground corn they are talking about is actually cooked which makes it highly digestible and is even considered more digestible than rice. I would also tell everyone please do not compare corn to the corn us humans eat. It is prepared much differently. Also corn is not considered a top cause of allergies. Although some dogs are allergic to corn, most dogs are more allergic to beef, wheat, chicken, etc... Also, if you take a look at some prescription diets, corn will be a top ingredient. And no it is not a filler.

One thing I noticed a lot from the other posts are that a lot of you guys do not know how to read labels. Everyone always focuses on ingredients and ingredients should not be the first thing you guys look at. A lot of companies have actually done product splitting which is used in some cases to change the line up of ingredients so it will attract more consumers. I remember looking at a bag that said lamb was the first ingredient, and the next three ingredients were different forms of rice. The guaranteed analysis is important to look at also but is hard to tell the facts when it only shows the min and max. The reason why companies do that is because they do not want to reveal the absolute values to other companies.

The main thing people should really focus on is the AAFCO statement found on every bag. This will be in fine print and people overlook it or either just do not seem to find the importance of the statement. There is two things to look at when reading the statement. One, it will either say that the food is formulated or animal tested. Two, it will show what life stage the food is suitable for. Statements that state that the food is animal tested is the foods that you should be looking for. Animal testing is a test that requires the company to do feeding trials to a certain amount of pets and they have to supervise their growth and maintenance. Animal feeding tests is actually really expensive and you only find it in very few foods. So if you want a animal tested food, make sure you read the AAFCO statement. Also you need to see what life stage the food is suitable for. If it is a puppy food, it should say puppy, if it is an adult food, it should say adult. But for senior foods, it will also say adult because AAFCO has not made a category for that yet. If you read anything that says all life stages or nutrient and profiles, you may want to stay away from those foods. If you guys all know, Nutro makes a product that claims to be Americas number 1 lamb meal and rice. If you look anywhere on that bag, you will not find a life stage anywhere. When you read the AAFCO statement, it will say it is an all life stage food. So everyone should be aware of companies that are more in it for the money.

So I would recommend Science Diet and I guess a lot of you guys can argue your views. I would not stick with smaller companies only because they are not going to have a lot of science to back up their practices and also they will not have much of a variety like Science Diet. If your dog has been doing great on other products, good for them. I am happy for them. If your dog is doing good on grocery brands, consider that an exception for them. I have talked to many people who fed their dogs grocery brands and they their dogs had kidney disease. For all you people out their, kidney disease is the number two disease for dogs next to oral. It is a very serious problem especially for senior dogs and people always say that it is because of old age, majority of the time it is bad nutrition. Foods that may cause this is foods with high levels of phosphorus.

So I would think twice about feeding my dog a low end grocery brand food. If you think that the food is too expensive, think about what is best for your dog and your dog should deserve the best. Think again before buying a dog if you think money is going to be an issue. Buying food is nothing compared to what you buy for yourself to eat. I love my dog and nutrition is very important. So when I heard most of you guys talking badly about premium food, I knew I had to reply back even though this thread is pretty old. I will urge you guys all to have your dogs go on Science Diet so they will be healthier and live a better life.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Do Hills' stockholders know they're not out to make money?

Thank you for your bold post. Please consider a little white space in the next one to make it easier to read.


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## bryly27 (Jan 8, 2008)

RonE said:


> Do Hills' stockholders know they're not out to make money?
> 
> Thank you for your bold post. Please consider a little white space in the next one to make it easier to read.


Sorry for making it so hard to read. I'll take your advice. 

I forgot why but one of my friends actually looked up the net worth of Science Diet and it was worth more than any other dog food company. I would say Science Diet puts pets first and then money second. Science Diet donates a lot of food to animal shelters and even donated food for families with pets that were affected by the San Diego fire. They seem to definitely put pets first and at the same time, bank a lot of money.


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## MyRalphie (Jan 7, 2008)

Wow, a lot put into your post there. Thing is, all the paragraphs and supposed "research" on earth can't change the facts, right on the labels of foods:

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose, Peanut Hulls, Chicken by-product Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, Soybean Oil, Corn Gluten Meal...

Yup, the *first/main *Ingredients of a food "prescribed" for my family's dog by a veterinary practice which sells it! 
This is so not right. 

Could you kindly enlighten us as to the *nutritional benefits * to a canine or an Obligate Carnivore (Felines) with these ingredients? (Of course, you would have to cite an *actual Nutritional Specialist* to back it up, though.)
And, pray tell, just what the heck is Soy Mill Run, anyways?
_OOPS! Soy and corn gluten are proven allergens_! 

Now look at the ingredients right on the labels for the alternatives discussed in this thread, and perhaps consider a career with them if you really care about the health of these animals? 

I wouldn't want to even _imagine_ if there was no Internet, and people were still at the mercy of mainstream "experts" and heavy influences regarding foods.


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## sarasmom (Feb 8, 2008)

I have to put my 2cents in......chicken meal does NOT contain beaks, etc. That is chicken by-products. Chicken meal is ground chicken with the water removed, as chicken is 40% water. Corn is hard to digest....but the point is that it *is* one of the top allergens for dogs. It doesn't matter how cooked it is, if your dog is allergic to it. If corn is not a filler, then why do most grocery store brands use it? It is a source of protein that AAFCO accepts as contributing to the protein level %, but it can't be counted as useable - dogs need animal protein. That is their metabolism. They can "survive' but not "thrive' on plant protein. They are omnivorous, but they NEED *animal* protein. Have you ever seen a stray dog grazing in a corn field? Animal tested usually means on rats....rats can survive well on dog food containing corn...they utilize corn protein well.

Purina, Science Diet, Iams....all make some good foods - but that doesn't mean all their foods are good. Science Diet may have started out with good intentions, but to say money doesn't matter to them - ask their CEO to take a pay cut.....

But, I do agree with being cautious about reading the label. These pet food manufacturers do know what we are looking for and how to get around it and still stay within the guidelines. Also, ask yourself this....if I call every dogfood manufacturer, how many of them are going to tell me they use beaks and feet, corn is inappropriate but we use it anyway, or of course we use euthanized animals as it saves us money.?


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## tsjd7155 (Mar 26, 2008)

Danegirl2208 said:


> i feed a raw prey model diet..its all i will ever feed, i like knowing exactly what goes into my dogs meals each day


also Evangers, if you dont have the time to cook.......


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## uwiniwin (May 22, 2008)

I would like to speak about food allergies in dogs in reply to your question. 

Food additives that cause allergy in dogs are usually found to be

Ethoxyquin 

BHA (Butylated Hydroxianisole) 

BHT (Butylated Hydroxytoluene) 

These are the additives that are usually included in ready foods to preserve the fat and prolong their shelf life. Other additives are propylene glycol, sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite. 

For some dogs these chemicals are reported to cause a range of health disorders. When you shop for dog food, look closely at the ingredients on the packaging. 

When you locate food stuffs that have very little or no additives, buy buy them in small quantities (unless you have adequate freezer space) as these foods will not have a long shelf life.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

I had emailed the company who makes Kibbles and Bits because I was looking at the site to respond to a poster on another forum. I noticed that two of the ingredients were propylene glycol and hydrochloric acid. I'm no scientist but from what I remember in high school about hydrochloric acid, it's quite caustic. So I emailed the company to ask about those ingredients. The response said that propylene glycol was acceptable in certain amounts but it never addressed the hydrochloric acid. Since then, I've been told that aspirin and some drugs contain hydrochloric acid at certain concentrations. But I'm not sure I'd want it in my dog's food. If a company stands behind their product, then they should be able to explain why an ingredient is added to their product.


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## uwiniwin (May 22, 2008)

All these factors lead you to think that fresh, home cooked food is best for dogs, as far as you know what ingredients to avoid (a) food types that cause health problems and (b) food types your dog is allergic to.

BARF, fresh vegetables, wholewheat flour, cooked eggs are believed to be safe and healthy ingredients to cook your dog's meals every day.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

Pamela,
You'll probably have to order online, then. Petsmart doesn't carry the premium brands. Pet Food Direct has pretty good prices. 

For canned food, I use Evanger's, and sometimes Wellness.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

Hydrochloric acid is stomach acid so it's probably not toxic but I'd like to know why it's there too. I'd be more concerned about propylene glycol (antifreeze - it causes liver failure), and why it needs to be there. And even more about the corn, soy etc.

I would never feed a dog wheat flour either, whole or otherwise, and I won't eat it myself. Here's why: it contains very little useful nutrition, and it's main consituents are carbohydrate (starch), protein (gluten) and cellulose fiber. These are implicated or known to cause the following diseases:

carbohydrate - type II diabetes, obesity, heart disease, alzheimers, cancer

gluten - many autoimmune diseases including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis (in dogs this is known as degenerative myelopathy), fibromyalgia, migraines, celiac disease, type I diabetes, hashimoto's (autoimmune hypothyroid)

fiber - IBS, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, crohn's disease, colon cancer


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## Kibblelady (May 6, 2008)

wyx said:


> Hydrochloric acid is stomach acid so it's probably not toxic but I'd like to know why it's there too. I'd be more concerned about propylene glycol (antifreeze - it causes liver failure), and why it needs to be there. And even more about the corn, soy etc.
> 
> I would never feed a dog wheat flour either, whole or otherwise, and I won't eat it myself. Here's why: it contains very little useful nutrition, and it's main consituents are carbohydrate (starch), protein (gluten) and cellulose fiber. These are implicated or known to cause the following diseases:
> 
> ...



There are a number of points on this whole thread I would like to address:

1. Flint River Ranch does not ship food for free. The cost of shipping is simply included in the cost of the product (I know this because I used to be a distributor) many people misunderstand this as well as many distributors. The shipping is not free.

2. Gluten does *not* cause DM in dogs. DM in GSDs is hereditary not caused by a protein in wheat, rye and barley. Wheat, rye and barley are full of nutrition as far as protein content, vitamins and minerals, energy content and many other things.

3. The website dogfoodanalysis.com is only one person's opinion and based on nothing other than looking at ingredient panels. It does not take into consideration digestability nor the guaranteed analysis and is biased against all foods containing grains. There are many myths on the site and much misinformation so I would be careful about taking the site seriously.

4. Propylene glycol is *NOT* antifreeze. It is simply in the same chemical family and this is a common myth.

5. Gluten is just a protein found in wheat, rye and barley. It does not *cause* disease however people and animals with sensitivities to gluten protein of course cannot eat foods containing this protein. It does NOT *cause* Celiac disease as that is an inherited disease not aquired.

6. Fiber is NOT an unhealthy ingredient, it is a necessary one and there are a variety of fibers that exist all with various benefits.

7. Hydrochloric acid is used to alter PH values and for flavor basically.


If anyone is interested in having questions answered or would like to read about other pet food myths or topics please visit Kibblesense or visit our message board community for pet food discussion and answers at http://www.eastgsd.com/forum

Thank you,

Cherri


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Kibblelady said:


> There are a number of points on this whole thread I would like to address:
> Cherri


Thank you for addressing those topics. I was thinking what the hell-Since when is fiber not benificial.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

Kibblelady said:


> Gluten does *not* cause DM in dogs. DM in GSDs is hereditary not caused by a protein in wheat, rye and barley. Wheat, rye and barley are full of nutrition as far as protein content, vitamins and minerals, energy content and many other things.


The protein in grains is poor quality and not worth the risk to the immune system. As for vitamins and minerals, there are much richer sources without all the empty calories and anti-nutrients. Energy? I always cringe when I see that Beneful advert bragging about having "carbohydrates for energy". "Energy" is marketing-speak for "empty calories". Most dogs I've seen already have rolls of excess "energy" on their bodies. What they need is food with more nutrition and less "energy".


> Propylene glycol is *NOT* antifreeze. It is simply in the same chemical family and this is a common myth.


I get Sierra antifreeze from an auto parts store, it's definitely propylene glycol. Less toxic than ethylene glycol but why in the world would I want to feed it to my dog?


> Gluten is just a protein found in wheat, rye and barley. It does not *cause* disease however people and animals with sensitivities to gluten protein of course cannot eat foods containing this protein. It does NOT *cause* Celiac disease as that is an inherited disease not aquired.


I guess you could say that sunburn is an inherited disease because light skin is genetic. When you quit eating gluten, the celiac disease goes away. Gluten intolerance is not a disease any more than light skin is.


> Fiber is NOT an unhealthy ingredient, it is a necessary one and there are a variety of fibers that exist all with various benefits.


Well, the benefits of fiber are relative to the diet. The type of fiber in grains causes mechanical damage to the lining of the intestine, which secretes extra mucus to protect itself. If the rest of your diet is poor quality, this is a good thing. If your diet is healthful and not excessive, fiber wastes good nutrients and causes unnecessary damage. Here's some interesting reading on the subject: http://www.fibermenace.com/fiber/myth.html


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## Kibblelady (May 6, 2008)

LMH said:


> Thank you for addressing those topics. I was thinking what the hell-Since when is fiber not benificial.



You're quite welcome 

Cherri



wyx said:


> The protein in grains is poor quality and not worth the risk to the immune system.


Risk to the immune system? Can you provide some peer reviewed studies about the dangers of proteins in grain to the immune system? Thanks.

Also, what makes you say that the protein in grains is "poor quality?" What are you basing that on?




> I get Sierra antifreeze from an auto parts store, it's definitely propylene glycol. Less toxic than ethylene glycol but why in the world would I want to feed it to my dog?


http://www.dow.com/productsafety/finder/prog.htm#ProdUses

What exactlly is your point? You were wrong. These two chemicals are not the same. Propylene glycol is on the GRAS list and used in many liquid medications for people as well as hundreds of other uses.





> I guess you could say that sunburn is an inherited disease because light skin is genetic. When you quit eating gluten, the celiac disease goes away. Gluten intolerance is not a disease any more than light skin is.


That is totally incorrect, totally. Fair skin (less melanin in the skin cells) is a perfectly natural genetic variant, not a disease. An intolerance to a protein to the extent that the body overreacts and destroys it's own tissue is a disease...no comparison.





> Well, the benefits of fiber are relative to the diet. The type of fiber in grains causes mechanical damage to the lining of the intestine, which secretes extra mucus to protect itself.


Says who?



> http://www.fibermenace.com/fiber/myth.html


The above is called propaganda and marketing....

Cherri


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## Striker2807 (May 27, 2008)

I don't know if this site has been posted, but it list over 400 ingredients in pet food and gives you a little information about them as well as rates them from 1 to 5 stars.

http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_pet_food_ingredients_1.html

I definitely recommend checking it out!


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

Kibblelady said:


> Risk to the immune system? Can you provide some peer reviewed studies about the dangers of proteins in grain to the immune system? Thanks.


Well, hundreds of them. Pubmed searches on "celiac autoimmune" turned up 863 results. "gluten immune" turned up 610 results. If anyone is interested go here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez and enter the search phrase of your choice (quotes aren't necessary).


> Also, what makes you say that the protein in grains is "poor quality?" What are you basing that on?


The protein in grains is incomplete. Unlike meat, eggs or dairy it doesn't have the amino acids necessary to support life. Your dog will die of a protein deficiency if its diet has too much grain in it. Humans, too.


> What exactlly is your point? You were wrong. These two chemicals are not the same. Propylene glycol is on the GRAS list and used in many liquid medications for people as well as hundreds of other uses.


Sure, I have no problem admitting I am wrong about the liver failure (doubly wrong in fact, because it's kidney failure that's caused by ethylene glycol), but you were wrong too, when you insisted that


> Propylene glycol is *NOT* antifreeze


. None of us is perfect, hmm?

But that still leaves the question of why anyone would want to feed propylene glycol to their dog? What's the nutritional benefit?


> That is totally incorrect, totally. Fair skin (less melanin in the skin cells) is a perfectly natural genetic variant, not a disease. An intolerance to a protein to the extent that the body overreacts and destroys it's own tissue is a disease...no comparison.


It's a natural genetic variant. Neither Humans nor dogs needed to develop a tolerance for gluten in their evolution, because grain (especially the modern high-gluten grains) were not a significant part of their diet until very recently. Celiac disease is a disease. Gluten intolerance is not a disease - there's no pathology except in the presence of gluten, and since humans and dogs are perfectly healthy without any in their diet, it's not really a problem either, more like an inconvenience for the food manufacturers because grain is very profitable, and for consumers because they have to learn how to feed themselves without all those processed food products that contain gluten.


> Says who?


Here's a related article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5274420.stm


> The above is called propaganda and marketing....


Call it what you like, but what makes you so sure he's wrong? Anyway, what's he marketing? Not fiber or fiber supplements, that's for sure. Or kibble, for that matter.


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## Kibblelady (May 6, 2008)

wyx said:


> Well, hundreds of them. Pubmed searches on "celiac autoimmune" turned up 863 results. "gluten immune" turned up 610 results. If anyone is interested go here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez and enter the search phrase of your choice (quotes aren't necessary).


Again, these are referring to disease. Are you inferring that an entire population of a species should be treated as if they have a disease because some do?






> The protein in grains is incomplete. Unlike meat, eggs or dairy it doesn't have the amino acids necessary to support life. Your dog will die of a protein deficiency if its diet has too much grain in it.


The above demonstrates your lack of knowledge on proteins and nutrition. A dog will not die if their diet has a large segment of grain in it. A dog will not thrive if they do not get their essential amino acids they need. Dogs have none that cannot be gotten from plant matter..... Plants being incomplete proteins does not mean they are "bad" or anything of the like, it just descibes their content. This is why vegans need to vary their diet to be sure that they get their required amino acids as no plant source contains all of them (although soy comes very very close)...that is why they are called "incomplete" as opposed to "complete" like animal protein.






> Sure, I have no problem admitting I am wrong about the liver failure (doubly wrong in fact, because it's kidney failure that's caused by ethylene glycol), but you were wrong too, when you insisted that . None of us is perfect, hmm?


How was I incorrect?



> But that still leaves the question of why anyone would want to feed propylene glycol to their dog? What's the nutritional benefit?



It has nothing to do with nutritional benefit but has everything to do with how some products are made. Many products need ingredients for flow, construction and makeup to enable to product to be made. This does not make the ingredient dangerous or unhealthy nor does it mean it has to impart nutritional qualities.






> Here's a related article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5274420.stm
> Call it what you like, but what makes you so sure he's wrong? Anyway, what's he marketing? Not fiber or fiber supplements, that's for sure. Or kibble, for that matter.


How about his book? It is an advertisement for a book.

We all have to be careful about what information we are willing to accept as factual, possible or just plain nutty. There are many paranoid people out there that write book and use small quantities of truth blown all out of proportion and twisted in order to serve their cause or support their agenda.




Cherri


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

Kibblelady said:


> Again, these are referring to disease. Are you inferring that an entire population of a species should be treated as if they have a disease because some do?


Given the fact that gluten may cause increased gut permeability in everyone, not just people with celiac (and the disease itself is estimated to be heavily underdiagnosed), it would be wise to be cautious.


> The above demonstrates your lack of knowledge on proteins and nutrition. A dog will not die if their diet has a large segment of grain in it. A dog will not thrive if they do not get their essential amino acids they need.


A dog can only eat so much food. A diet too high in grains, potatos or other starchy filler won't leave room for the missing aminos from another source. If pancreatitis or diabetes or heart disease from all the excess carbs doesn't kill it first, a dog on a diet too high in grains will die from protein deficiency.


> How was I incorrect?


Read your post again. You said: "Propylene glycol is *NOT* antifreeze". But in fact it is, and there are several commercial antifreeze products based on it.


> It has nothing to do with nutritional benefit but has everything to do with how some products are made. Many products need ingredients for flow, construction and makeup to enable to product to be made.


Well, whatever. Why would I want to feed something non-nutritional to my dog? I don't care about the benefit to the dog food manufacturer. What's the benefit to the dog?


> It is an advertisement for a book. We all have to be careful about what information we are willing to accept as factual, possible or just plain nutty. There are many paranoid people out there that write book and use small quantities of truth blown all out of proportion and twisted in order to serve their cause or support their agenda.


That book is definitely outside the box thinking, but consider who profits from consumers staying firmly inside that box. My personal experience with eating a very low fiber diet leads me to believe he may be right. It's nice to not have all that flatulance, cramping etc. that's for sure. Our dogs are a lot less gassy than grain fed dogs too.

Speaking of agendas, just look at all the propaganda and marketing that goes into selling kibble.


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## Kibblelady (May 6, 2008)

wyx said:


> Given the fact that gluten may cause increased gut permeability in everyone, not just people with celiac (and the disease itself is estimated to be heavily underdiagnosed), it would be wise to be cautious.


May? As I said Celiac disease is a disease. Gluten protein does not cause the disease anymore than allergens cause allergies.




> A dog can only eat so much food. A diet too high in grains, potatos or other starchy filler won't leave room for the missing aminos from another source. If pancreatitis or diabetes or heart disease from all the excess carbs doesn't kill it first, a dog on a diet too high in grains will die from protein deficiency.



That is simply not true no matter how much you believe it to be so. I also do not prefer a high carb food for my pets but I will not agree to false facts and information blown out of proportion to support an argument. All pet foods contain all the essential amino acids for pets....they have to. Of course not all products give the same results but you are incorrect in saying that a high grain diet will kill a dog, it will not.





> Read your post again. You said: "Propylene glycol is *NOT* antifreeze". But in fact it is, and there are several commercial antifreeze products based on it.


Well, to be more precise neither chemical is "antifreeze" as "antifreeze" is a product made from certain componants. The typical accepted chemical associated with antifreeze is ethylene glycol and we all know this. If we follow your line of thinking anything put into a car's receptical to provide cooling is "antifreeze" which would include water. Is water antifreeze to you as well?



> Well, whatever. Why would I want to feed something non-nutritional to my dog? I don't care about the benefit to the dog food manufacturer. What's the benefit to the dog?



What do you mean "well, whatever?" You made a comment and I asked you to back it up and you can't. It is not about benefiting the manufacturer but about things which the majority of the general pet public do not understand and that is how things are made and enables them to be able to make them.



> That book is definitely outside the box thinking, but consider who profits from consumers staying firmly inside that box. My personal experience with eating a very low fiber diet leads me to believe he may be right. It's nice to not have all that flatulance, cramping etc. that's for sure. Our dogs are a lot less gassy than grain fed dogs too.


I have found the opposite with myself. What does that prove? Nothing....
None of my dogs have any gas either and their food contains grains, and fiber.





> Speaking of agendas, just look at all the propaganda and marketing that goes into selling kibble.


Oh I totally agree with you there! That is what my website is about and what drives me to post and write articles. Realize though all manufactuers are doing it, not just the whipping boys like Iams and Hills...all of them.

Cherri


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

wyx said:


> The protein in grains is incomplete. Unlike meat, eggs or dairy it doesn't have the amino acids necessary to support life. Your dog will die of a protein deficiency if its diet has too much grain in it. Humans, too.
> Sure, I have no problem admitting I am wrong.
> .


Haha-your dog will not die and Humans certainly will not die. One plant protein may not provide the 9 essential aminos which is why you should eat a variety of non meat protien foods, that would definitely make up the difference and you would therefore not die.


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

Kibblelady said:


> May? As I said Celiac disease is a disease. Gluten protein does not cause the disease anymore than allergens cause allergie


I guess it depends on your definition of disease. Without the gluten there is no immune reaction, no inflammation. Everything functions normally. No gluten, no illness. 


> I will not agree to false facts and information blown out of proportion to support an argument.


Sorry, your dog WILL die if you don't give it enough complete protein. Grain doesn't contain complete protein. If the diet is too high in grains it will not get enough complete protein and will die. It will take awhile because it can live off it's own muscle tissue for awhile, but eventually it will die, even if it's getting plenty of calories. Look up Kwashiorkor.


> Well, to be more precise neither chemical is "antifreeze" as "antifreeze" is a product made from certain componants. The typical accepted chemical associated with antifreeze is ethylene glycol and we all know this. If we follow your line of thinking anything put into a car's receptical to provide cooling is "antifreeze" which would include water. Is water antifreeze to you as well?


What I'm calling "antifreeze" is a product that I bought at the auto supply store in a half-gallon jug with a label on it that says in big letters "Antifreeze". Brand name Sierra. Active ingredient propylene glycol. Contains no ethylene glycol. I got it at Cut Rate or maybe it was Shucks. One of those big auto supply chains. In the Antifreeze section. I think it might actually be antifreeze. Anyway my radiator hasn't frozen up since I put it in there.


> What do you mean "well, whatever?" You made a comment and I asked you to back it up and you can't. It is not about benefiting the manufacturer but about things which the majority of the general pet public do not understand and that is how things are made and enables them to be able to make them.


Not sure what I'm supposed to be backing up, but my "whatever" comment was just to indicate my lack of caring much about the whole dog food manufacturing process.


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## Kibblelady (May 6, 2008)

wyx said:


> Sorry, your dog WILL die if you don't give it enough complete protein. Grain doesn't contain complete protein. If the diet is too high in grains it will not get enough complete protein and will die. It will take awhile because it can live off it's own muscle tissue for awhile, but eventually it will die, even if it's getting plenty of calories. Look up Kwashiorkor.
> .



Now you are changing what you previously stated. You said a food too high in grains would kill a dog and that is simply not true. You are totally incorrect here and I highly suggest you do more research.

Psst *all* of the essential amino acids for dogs **CAN** be gotten from plant sources......

You are giving the terms "incomplete" and "complete" quality assignments that you shouldn't be. The terms are specific and accurate and have nothing to do with quality.

You change a lot of what you state in your posts, you should go back and reread what you have written to remind yourself of your own previous statements IMO.

Cherri


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## wyx (May 23, 2008)

Kibblelady said:


> Now you are changing what you previously stated. You said a food too high in grains would kill a dog and that is simply not true. You are totally incorrect here and I highly suggest you do more research.


I never said "food too high in grains". I said "a diet too high in grains" in both cases. If you are going to accuse me of being wrong at least pick something I actually said.


> Psst *all* of the essential amino acids for dogs **CAN** be gotten from plant sources......


Show me where I stated otherwise. Do you think vegan diet is healthful for dogs?


> You are giving the terms "incomplete" and "complete" quality assignments that you shouldn't be. The terms are specific and accurate and have nothing to do with quality.


In the context of the diet "completeness" is certainly a measure of quality. It's the difference between health and deficiency disease or even death.


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## Kibblelady (May 6, 2008)

Well, to sum it up I think you would seriously benefit from some nutritional and chemistry books..... your ideas posted throughout this thread are incorrect.


Cherri


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## doggymommy (Jun 5, 2008)

I, just like all of you, want to feed my dogs the best possible choice, within a reasonable budget. I have been using Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul Large Breed Puppy for 2 months now and love the food. 

I feed dry kibble. Their coats have never looked better and they love the taste.

The ingredients are very similar to Blue Buffalo Wilderness and about 15 dollars less for a 35lb bag.

I used to feed Innova, but I like this even better!

Just one woman's opinion.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Hello I am new here...

I have fed various premium foods over the years. Most recently Canidae with a brief switch to Innova(I had used Innova in the past) while researching raw diets.

This is the diet I am currently feeding.

For meat I am feeding raw chicken parts. Backs, necks, wings, leg quarters, gizzards and hearts. I am also feeding some turkey necks, and a little lamb and beef. Chunked up. 

3 packages of the pre washed collards at Publix
2 Zucini squashes
a package of mixed broccoli and cauliflower

2 apples cores and seeds removed. 
4 sweet potatoes
two big handfuls of green beans
1.5 cups of water
1/3 cup safflower oil
1/3 cup of ground flax seed
1.44 pounds of beef liver 

I upped the water a bit in this mix.
I also dropped the Vitamin C Crystals. Between the Collards, green beans and with the addition of the Cauliflower, I think I have a very good level of vitamin C in the natural state. Cauliflower is very high in vitamin C. The plus side is that none of my vitamin c sources are in the form of citric acid. Which can be hard on tooth enamel.
I cut out the fish oils and especially cod liver oil. The Beef liver is providing very adequate amounts of Vitamin D. I do not want to over do vitamin D. 

I am covering the other omega 6 needs by giving the dogs canned sardines in spring water. Brunswick makes a high quality product for human consumption. The dogs split a can every other day.


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## DreamN (Nov 28, 2008)

New to the forum and also a new pup owner. It's my first pup and I'm really trying my best to get him what any loving pet deserves. Since my girlfriend and I got him we've been so indecisive about what food to get him. We bought Purina One for the time being until I could research what was actually healthy and what wasn't. I'm really glad I found this thread because now I know what to stay clear away from and what to buy him.

I've chosen to go with Natura's Innova dry kibble because a local pet supply store carries it and I could get a discount on it through my friend. Hopefully Rico (My Pup) adjusts well to the change of food. Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread.


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## nthrdmbblnd (Apr 21, 2009)

I tried a bunch of different foods for my little guy, he's a picky eater, and the best that worked for him was Wellness or Purina Pro-Plan.


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## brecken (Oct 25, 2009)

dogluver101 said:


> I love these foods. California Natural, Innova, Healthwise. THey are all great foods and they do not taste that bad either.


Natura products is the best brand


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Hello I am new here...
> 
> I have fed various premium foods over the years. Most recently Canidae with a brief switch to Innova(I had used Innova in the past) while researching raw diets.
> 
> ...


Have you verified the vitamin C is available in the veggies?


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## brecken (Oct 25, 2009)

if you look up natures variety they carry raw meat that they make just for dogs and cats. they have medallians, chubs etc that is the healthiest diet you can feed your pet


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## MafiaPrincess (Jul 1, 2009)

This post is from 2006.. with it being resurrected in 2008.


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

Labsnothers said:


> Have you verified the vitamin C is available in the veggies?


Dogs are able to produce their own vitamin C, so it's really not much of a worry.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

wyx said:


> Hydrochloric acid is stomach acid so it's probably not toxic but I'd like to know why it's there too.
> 
> Hydrochloric Acid is toxic, the only reason that it doesn't affect us is because of the lining of our stomach is thick enough to protect us from it, but if any thing were to happen to the lining of the stomach (i.e. an ulcer that has perforated the lining) it is fatal if not treated immediately. Now just imagine what it could do if eaten.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Striker2807 said:


> I don't know if this site has been posted, but it list over 400 ingredients in pet food and gives you a little information about them as well as rates them from 1 to 5 stars.
> 
> http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_pet_food_ingredients_1.html
> 
> I definitely recommend checking it out!



Garlic is toxic to dogs, never feed them anything with garlic in the ingredients. Here is a website that lists 25 human foods that are toxic to dogs.

http://www.animalpetsandfriends.com/Article/25-Human-Foods-Toxic-To-Dogs/300


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## jhon01 (Jul 8, 2010)

I want to find a great dog food for my dog but I want the food to be good and healthy and tasty for my dog. Online pharmacy


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## Goody Girl (Dec 8, 2010)

When we started noticing all the signs of food allergies we came to the decision of taking our dogs off commercial food. Ultimately the goal was to get them away from the corn, wheat, and grain fillers commonly found in most commercial foods. We now feed all our dogs a raw diet. We soon found out that there wasn't a huge selection of grain free treats available that gave the dogs that "crunch" they loved so much. We also noticed that most treats available were filled with by products and additives. We knew that we wanted to give our dogs something better all around. Using what we learned about dog nutrition, it was simple when it came to choosing all of our farm fresh ingredients in our homemade treats. The one key ingredient is our grain free flour. We already knew that chickpeas were a great alternative to wheat, oat, and rice four so we started roasting our chickpeas to a golden brown and processing them into a chunky flour we could use. we also knew that we wanted real liver and no additives. After months of baking we purchased our first dehydrator. The dehydrator gives the added bonus of a crispy-crunchy treat with no need for preservatives or additives and also allows us to use raw whole food fruit and vegetables in our goody's. we believe that dogs always deserve the best and we stand by our Dog Goody grain free treats because of the freshness and the quality of ingredients used. So if you're looking for a grain free treat visit my website, www.doggoody.com
Selling them is new to us so we have only had our website up for a month or so but really believe in our product and we are just trying to get our name out.


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## ridgebackmom43 (Apr 24, 2011)

I'm new to this forum and just reading some of the topics of interest to me.

A web-site that I have found helpful in choosing a dog food is 

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

I could be wrong, but I didn't see it listed in any of the previous posts on this topic.

Presently, we are feeding Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover Soul - Senior Dog Formula. My dogs are poor judges of food as they would eat anything, but I like the way they look - weight is good, coat is good, stools are good, and there's no flatulence problem which makes me a happy camper. 

We feed twice a day adding a bit of tap water just to moisten, not necessarily to soak. They also get Ester-C, Vitamin E, and Glucosamine Chondroitin with MSM.


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## fentomento (May 13, 2011)

The best things to keep away from are wheat gluten, soy, corn, and dairy. Also, chemicals are never lovely for canines, and fillers. Even meats that have "by-product" after them are dangerous. Fundamentally what everyone else is saying as well.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

We feed Prey Model Raw.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf


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