# ALL US Ingredients - Was on Orijen, now what?



## Looney Tunes (Oct 24, 2009)

My dogs used to eat Orijen (ALL CANADA), but have basically started hating it. I want to switch them to an ALL-US ingredient food.

I thought EVO was all US, until I found out that taurine is in EVO (and most taurine is imported from China).

Any suggestions?

Thoughts about Merrick?


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

I think you will be hard pressed to find a food that sources all of it's ingredients from the U.S....Ever think about raw feeding?


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

I hate to keep harping on this, but have you evaluated them as illustrated at http://www.longliveyourdog.com/twoplus/RateYourDog.aspx Orijen is relatively high calorie. If their ribs are well covered, they might decide it was Ok if you fed less.


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## The Cats Mother (Dec 26, 2009)

Just to set the record straight about Orijen, whilst it is manufactured in Canada by Champion Petfoods, all the products are not Canadian and are not fresh as their blurb would suggest. The meal has been sourced in the past (and possibly currently) from a rendering plant called Griffin Industries in the USA. Griffin Industries collect the usual dead cattle/other animals, grease trap waste, bakery waste and quite possibly floor sweepings from bakeries and abbatoirs as do some rendering plants, and render it all down for resale for inclusion in animal feed and pet food. 

I know this for a fact because I have seen documents that were obtained under the Australian Freedom of Information Act in order to ascertain whether Champion knew in advance that their kibble would be gamma irradiated upon entry to Australia to meet our strict quarantine regulations. Champion claimed they didn't know. The documents show that their Australian importer/distributor had contacted Champion to obtain consent and he confirmed back to Australian Quarantine that they had agreed to the irradiation. Obtaining the documents from the Australian Government was carried out to learn the facts of the matter and in an effort to learn what else might be in the food (apart from what they claimed to have put in) that could have been damaged by gamma irradiation and caused the deaths and paralysis of Australian cats. 

Gamma irradiation of cat food in Australia has now been banned by the government. The RSPCA and some pet owners are still lobbying to have the process banned on all pet food. Champion withdrew from Australia when it happened, threw a few dollars our way, made a sizeable contribution to a cat charity (which the owners could well have used for vets bills) and thus effectively virtually quarantined themselves from legal action. And one prominent veterinary neurologist is on record stating that they threatened vets who spoke out against them with litigation. They took over 3 months to admit there was a problem and withdraw their food from sale here, and given that the syndrome of paralysis took four months to manifest after onset of feeding, many more cats were affected than needed to be. I wouldn't touch their products now with a barge pole if I lived anywhere they were sold because I have seen how vicious and litigious they can be if anyone says a word against them if anything goes wrong. 

You may wish to moderate this post but before you do please contact me and I will be happy to post links to all the documents and evidence held in online file storage.


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## Bugsy (Jul 2, 2009)

how about you just post the links here... i'm interested to know. I feed Orijen.


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## phoeberocks (Nov 25, 2009)

^same here



Labsnothers said:


> I hate to keep harping on this, but have you evaluated them as illustrated at http://www.longliveyourdog.com/twoplus/RateYourDog.aspx Orijen is relatively high calorie. If their ribs are well covered, they might decide it was Ok if you fed less.


(what does this have anything to do with the OP?)


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## Looney Tunes (Oct 24, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> I hate to keep harping on this, but have you evaluated them as illustrated at http://www.longliveyourdog.com/twoplus/RateYourDog.aspx Orijen is relatively high calorie. If their ribs are well covered, they might decide it was Ok if you fed less.


What? My dogs are working dogs, strong, in good shape. Their weight is not an issue and they need to eat alot.

That is why they are fed Orijen, a high-protein food. And that is why I need another "quality" food.

And Purina food is crap...junk food that I would not feed to anyone or anything. (I hate plugs for crappy foods!)

Oh Brother.



The Cats Mother said:


> Just to set the record straight about Orijen, whilst it is manufactured in Canada by Champion Petfoods, all the products are not Canadian and are not fresh as their blurb would suggest. The meal has been sourced in the past (and possibly currently) from a rendering plant called Griffin Industries in the USA. Griffin Industries collect the usual dead cattle/other animals, grease trap waste, bakery waste and quite possibly floor sweepings from bakeries and abbatoirs as do some rendering plants, and render it all down for resale for inclusion in animal feed and pet food.
> 
> I know this for a fact because I have seen documents that were obtained under the Australian Freedom of Information Act in order to ascertain whether Champion knew in advance that their kibble would be gamma irradiated upon entry to Australia to meet our strict quarantine regulations. Champion claimed they didn't know. The documents show that their Australian importer/distributor had contacted Champion to obtain consent and he confirmed back to Australian Quarantine that they had agreed to the irradiation. Obtaining the documents from the Australian Government was carried out to learn the facts of the matter and in an effort to learn what else might be in the food (apart from what they claimed to have put in) that could have been damaged by gamma irradiation and caused the deaths and paralysis of Australian cats.
> 
> ...



I have no problem with factual information. In fact, I want it. I called the makers of Orijen and they "told me" that all ingredients were from Canada and the product was manufactured in Canada. But I know that they had recalls in Australia when cats died from their food. But they claimed it was "only in Australia" and did not effect the dog food.

Truthfully, I don't think any of these dog food companies are straight and honest. It makes me sick. I don't mind spending the money on my dogs, I just can't find the place to spend it on. Nothing but liars and dishonesty about ingredients and imports. 

Makes me ill. Why can't I get something healthy, natural, and safe from the country I live?


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Why do you want all US ingredients? I think that the standards there are more lax than in Canada, even in the pet food industry. I think you're better off just trying to find a food that works for your dog and hasn't been involved in recalls. Any company would try to fight off any bad publicity; I'm not justifying Champion's actions, but Menu foods didn't do any better considering the number of pets were involved. As far as I'm concerned, if we could, I wish we could ban all imported ingredients from China - sorry, I don't mean to discriminate but a country who would allow melamine into baby formula should not be importing anything to Canada. 

Sorry went off on a tangent but just try to find a food that your dogs like. Ever try Nature's Variety? They have raw, kibble and canned and I think dehydrated raw (I could be wrong about the latter).


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## Looney Tunes (Oct 24, 2009)

flipgirl said:


> Why do you want all US ingredients? I think that the standards there are more lax than in Canada, even in the pet food industry. I think you're better off just trying to find a food that works for your dog and hasn't been involved in recalls. Any company would try to fight off any bad publicity; I'm not justifying Champion's actions, but Menu foods didn't do any better considering the number of pets were involved. As far as I'm concerned, if we could, I wish we could ban all imported ingredients from China - sorry, I don't mean to discriminate but a country who would allow melamine into baby formula should not be importing anything to Canada.
> 
> Sorry went off on a tangent but just try to find a food that your dogs like. Ever try Nature's Variety? They have raw, kibble and canned and I think dehydrated raw (I could be wrong about the latter).


Ok, mostly its I don't want imported from China. Melamine in baby food, poison in heparin, lead in candy and in toys for children, chemicals in drywall, and of course the pet food scare. So, I am not trying to be discrimatory, but history shows that they don't care who or what they endanger.

I have never heard of Nature's Variety. I will now look into this.
For almost every dog food I looked into, I called the company and asked what ingredients were imported and from where. I was upset at Natural Balance and Eagle Pack, both which import from China. But I don't know if any of them are really trustworthy anyhow.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Looney Tunes said:


> I have never heard of Nature's Variety. I will now look into this.
> For almost every dog food I looked into, I called the company and asked what ingredients were imported and from where. I was upset at Natural Balance and Eagle Pack, both which import from China. But I don't know if any of them are really trustworthy anyhow.


NV has China imported rabbits when I emailed and ask. Not sure about the other flavors though. 

Orijen has worked for me the best and we're still on it. Have you tried a different flavor maybe? Like the red meat one?


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

I like Orijen, and have used it in the past, but now am using Nature's Variety. I like the company...they were honest about using rabbit from China when I asked them (and I believe it's on their website, too). I use all their flavors, except the rabbit. My dogs are doing fantastic on this food. I like to rotate, and have decided to stay within this company and rotate thru all their varieties and flavors. I use their Prairie, Instinct, raw medallions. Good luck to you!


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## tefobuch (Jun 7, 2009)

The Cats Mother said:


> Just to set the record straight about Orijen, whilst it is manufactured in Canada by Champion Petfoods, all the products are not Canadian and are not fresh as their blurb would suggest. The meal has been sourced in the past (and possibly currently) from a rendering plant called Griffin Industries in the USA. Griffin Industries collect the usual dead cattle/other animals, grease trap waste, bakery waste and quite possibly floor sweepings from bakeries and abbatoirs as do some rendering plants, and render it all down for resale for inclusion in animal feed and pet food.
> 
> I know this for a fact because I have seen documents that were obtained under the Australian Freedom of Information Act in order to ascertain whether Champion knew in advance that their kibble would be gamma irradiated upon entry to Australia to meet our strict quarantine regulations. Champion claimed they didn't know. The documents show that their Australian importer/distributor had contacted Champion to obtain consent and he confirmed back to Australian Quarantine that they had agreed to the irradiation. Obtaining the documents from the Australian Government was carried out to learn the facts of the matter and in an effort to learn what else might be in the food (apart from what they claimed to have put in) that could have been damaged by gamma irradiation and caused the deaths and paralysis of Australian cats.
> 
> ...


I think everyone would be v. interested in seeing these documents if you're able to share them. Please!
I'm feeding my pup Acana now which he really likes and is doing well on ... but now I'm also getting nervous ...



> Ok, mostly its I don't want imported from China. Melamine in baby food, poison in heparin, lead in candy and in toys for children, chemicals in drywall, and of course the pet food scare. So, I am not trying to be discrimatory, but history shows that they don't care who or what they endanger.


I so agree! It's sad but we really are surrounded by toxins every which way we look and unscrupulous companies from A-Z, not just in the pet food industry. However, because of how poorly the pet food industry is regulated, they can get away with murder ... literally! And they do!


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

The facts.

1 One of the leading reasons healthy dogs don't eat is because they are over fed.

2 http://www.longliveyourdog.com/twoplus/RateYourDog.aspx is an informative page without marketing hype. Yes, a dog food company admits they fund it.

3 That Purina dog foods are substandard is a highly biased opinion totally lacking foundation. Such emotional rants have no place in rational discussions.


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Looney Tunes said:


> My dogs used to eat Orijen (ALL CANADA), but have basically started hating it. I want to switch them to an ALL-US ingredient food.
> 
> I thought EVO was all US, until I found out that taurine is in EVO (and most taurine is imported from China).
> 
> ...



except EVO dog foods don't even contain supplemental taurine.


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## Looney Tunes (Oct 24, 2009)

Jordan S said:


> except EVO dog foods don't even contain supplemental taurine.


According to dogfood analysis.com, it does. Now, I don't know if this is correct, but it is listed as 0.06 mg/kg in the EVO Red Meat. I have emailed the company and am waiting a reply.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1604&cat=8



Labsnothers said:


> The facts.
> 
> 1 One of the leading reasons healthy dogs don't eat is because they are over fed.
> 
> ...


Emotional? It does not take a genius to look at the ingredients to realize that purina is nothing but junk for dogs.
Look at the ingredients in Purina food...ground yellow corn, corn gluteal meal, ground wheat , and finally some meat meal. Oh, it even has some color dyes, sugar and sorbitol and calcium propionate which can be used as a pesticide. 

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1848&cat=7

You need to read.


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## CorgiKarma (Feb 10, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> 3 That Purina dog foods are substandard is a highly biased opinion totally lacking foundation. Such emotional rants have no place in rational discussions.


This is ridiculous. The ingredients speak for themselves. What more foundation do you need?


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## Jordan S (Nov 21, 2009)

Lol there IS a place where I would draw the line. less then 0.66 mg of taurine is NOT something to flip about lol. Not to mention natura probably runs tests before adding it. They are a highly trustworthy company, your taking it to a whole new level. maybe your obsessing a little too much over this...just a little teeny bit, just a tad....

why don't you just feed raw if your this troubled?


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

CorgiKarma said:


> This is ridiculous. The ingredients speak for themselves. What more foundation do you need?


Is it asking too much for a study relating properly processed ingredients to the health of dogs?


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

Jordan S said:


> why don't you just feed raw if your this troubled?


I was going to suggest the same thing.


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## The Cats Mother (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks to all those who are interested in reading the FOI documents.
Here is a link to an online storage folder containing all three pdf files. pdf File 2 is the one containing the released documents.

https://www.box.net/shared/nbzrdmzxyk

For those who wish to go straight to file 2, the released documents, without seeing the other files (which contain the application documents and questions to AQIS arising from the documents together with their answers)
here is a link to that file:

https://www.box.net/shared/67v2sk3csr

For those that would like to read the veterinary neurologists letter to the Australian Veterinary Journal which mentions the litigation threat to the vets involved, here is a link to her letter:

https://www.box.net/shared/7cl0dp5duv

For those that would like to read the posts made on another forum where Champion denied all knowledge of the irradiation to their food, here are links to the relevant posts on that forum: (I don't know if cross posting to other forums is permitted and this might get deleted by the mods but anyone interested can PM me and I will provide privately)

Post #240 Page 17 by Clark Stride of Champion Petfoods
http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/problems-with-orijen-in-australia-t6985.240.html

Post #427 on Page 29 by Clark Stride
http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/problems-with-orijen-in-australia-t6985.420.html


In the second post, Champion lay the blame at their importers feet (as if they wouldn't be closely monitoring what was happening to their food on its debut in a new market...really) The importer as identified in the FOI docs, Renasence Marketing Pty Ltd, deregistered his company with the Australian Security and Investments Commission in November 2009, thus effectively removing himself from any possibility of legal recourse. 

Champion's "Compassion" fund came nowhere near to recompensing people for their veterinary bills in many cases (though some people were covered - just) and made no concession for those owners still facing ongoing expenses because their cats are still in slow recovery. They wrote to affected owners around late August/September of this year effectively washing their hands of the whole affair. By removing their product from Australia immediately, putting some sort of offer on the table and making a donation to a local cat charity, they effectivley removed themselves from any possibility of legal recourse or at least, made it very hard and very expensive.

In a telephone conversation I had with one of the company owners the night my cat was diagnosed, he swore they didn't know about the irradiation until August 2008 when they got the invoices for the process. These documents suggest that they knew, and were complicit in the process, a whole year prior in August 2007.

One year on my cat is still paralysed in her back legs and incontinent. I have to help her defaecate daily. She is improving slowly, but she is nearly 11 yo and the younger cats are the ones that came through it better. There are around 15 cats who are still in various stages of recovery, 30 dead and around 50+ who made it to 90-99% recovery.

I am still in discussion with Biosecurity Australia and the Quarantine service, AQIS, regarding the safety studies they did before the process was instigated. Very little, actually. I also continue to campaign for a full cessation of petfood irradiation.


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## tefobuch (Jun 7, 2009)

Thank you for sharing, TCM. I'm so sorry to hear about your baby and can only imagine what a nightmare this has been for you and so many others.

I've downloaded the documents and have read the forum posts. It's all very, very disturbing. What only goes on behind the scenes one never knows ... it's all quite frightening. 

The more i read the more I wish my pup would eat raw, but he refuses it. I supplement his kibble with homemade cooked but am seriously considering moving to homemade 100% of the time!

I hope your kitty continues to improve and wish you luck with your campaigning!! (((cyber hug)))


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Labsnothers said:


> The facts.
> 
> 1 One of the leading reasons healthy dogs don't eat is because they are over fed.
> 
> ...


I haven't read all the posts on this thread since I posted my message but I had to reply to this one. Ok, maybe the 'idea' that Purina foods are substandard is opinion-based but many of these opinions are formed by people who know about ingredients. I don't know of any study that says that artificial colouring is good for dogs or humans for that matter. Purina is just as guilty of ingredient splitting as any other pet food company. Maybe corn is good for dogs, maybe not, but why not include whole corn? I would be careful in qualifying some 'rants' as emotional if I were you. Just because a pet food company has a monopoly on every market (low income, premium, veterinary etc) doesn't mean they produce quality products. 

To the OP, I didn't know about the rabbit being imported from China by NV...I feed the rabbit to my cat and dog and haven't had any problems. I like that NV has rabbit though...they do seem to have a variety of meats like venison, duck and rabbit so I try to feed my pets NV. At least they are honest! 

I don't think Orijen is a bad food; it's a good food. The unfortunate deaths in Austrailia was not totally their responsibility in my opinion. While they should have handled it better, I don't think they have had any issues in North America. And I agree about your issue with China - I won't even use dishes that come from there.


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## The Cats Mother (Dec 26, 2009)

tefobuch said:


> Thank you for sharing, TCM. I'm so sorry to hear about your baby and can only imagine what a nightmare this has been for you and so many others.
> 
> I've downloaded the documents and have read the forum posts. It's all very, very disturbing. What only goes on behind the scenes one never knows ... it's all quite frightening.
> 
> ...


Thank you Tefobuch for your kind words of support. I feed only homemade now. I used to add kibble for a sort of "dessert" after the main meal I made them - but not now, Best wishes to you in your endeavours.


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## GSP Mom (Dec 26, 2009)

tefobuch said:


> The more i read the more I wish my pup would eat raw, but he refuses it. I supplement his kibble with homemade cooked but am seriously considering moving to homemade 100% of the time!


I'm really curious, but what type of raw have you tried your pup with? Perhaps it was the protein source? Did you serve it warm or cold?

Why I ask, is my older GSP has been on raw since he was 10 months and my 9 week old puppy went directly to raw from the breeders and has no trouble with anything we have presented him with.

That being said, if you choose homemade, you will know what he's eating which is a sigh of relief.


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## tefobuch (Jun 7, 2009)

GSP Mom said:


> I'm really curious, but what type of raw have you tried your pup with? Perhaps it was the protein source? Did you serve it warm or cold?
> 
> Why I ask, is my older GSP has been on raw since he was 10 months and my 9 week old puppy went directly to raw from the breeders and has no trouble with anything we have presented him with.
> 
> That being said, if you choose homemade, you will know what he's eating which is a sigh of relief.


Maybe the problem is that I never intended feeding him raw ... until too late, when his taste buds had already developed!  He's a picky eater anyway.

I haven't actually purchased a raw dog food per se as I think it'll be a waste of money. He won't eat raw bones, I have to stick them in a pot of boiling water for a few seconds, and every time I try to tempt him with raw chicken or beef, he turns up his nose, no matter how much cajoling I do! 

Oh, and it's always been cold. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them, but maybe I should start a new thread as I don't want to hijack this one!



flipgirl said:


> I haven't read all the posts on this thread since I posted my message but I had to reply to this one. Ok, maybe the 'idea' that Purina foods are substandard is opinion-based but many of these opinions are formed by people who know about ingredients. I don't know of any study that says that artificial colouring is good for dogs or humans for that matter. Purina is just as guilty of ingredient splitting as any other pet food company. Maybe corn is good for dogs, maybe not, but why not include whole corn? I would be careful in qualifying some 'rants' as emotional if I were you. Just because a pet food company has a monopoly on every market (low income, premium, veterinary etc) doesn't mean they produce quality products.


Touche, flipgirl!


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

When this thread was started a few days ago, I decided to check with the Tuffy's dog food factory that's about 10 minutes from me.. I asked about their NutriSource, Pure Vita, and Natural Planet Organics lines of food.. This is the response I got:

"Thanks for visiting us on the Nutrisource website. We are a family owned company, having been in the dry pet food business for over 40 years. We produce and market all our dry brands in one plant in Perham, MN. We have never had a product involved in a recall. We use ingredients from the United States, mostly right here in the Upper Midwest, with the exception of some vitamins and the glucosamine and chondroitin. They are only available from Asian countries, but the supplements we use are the same human grade as used in human supplements, so they are completely safe. These supplements are not available in the United States. All ingredients are tested before they are allowed into our factory with extensive testing all through the production process to assure that our products are completely wholesome, nutritious and safe!

We have been named as a quality pet food to buy by the "Whole Dog Journal" for the 4th year in a row. We also make Natural Planet Organics dog and cat food, that does not have the glucosamine and chondroitin in it. I would be happy to send you a sample if you like. They both have coupons on the back of the sample."

So it seems to be a relatively common thing that Glucosamine and Chondroitin cannot be obtained in the United States.. I had read somewhere else today about another dog food company saying they couldn't obtain it in the USA either.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Very interesting Binkalette. I wonder if there is any way of testing those supplements when they are imported here. Medi-cal can somehow test the corn they receive as soon as they get it so why not the glucosamine and chondroitin from China? Being safe for humans means nothing in China as they put melamine in infant formula. 

I think the best you can do is find a food that has US or Canadian ingredients for the most part....or make your own if possible.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Thank you so much for posting that information TCM. I bookmarked it all and will go through later. 

With nutrition so important to keeping our pets healthy, long lived and out of the vet's office this stuff is really scary. I am so glad to be able to use my time and money and space to be able to make up my dog food from human quality foods both raw and cooked.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

Analysis wasn't my specialty when I worked as a chemist, but I know a little of how it works. There are cheap, easy tests that give the percent of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, chlorine, etc. Melamine in such a test will look like protein. The Chinese took advantage of us that way. There are more sophisticated tests that will not only pinpoint melamine, but show the amounts of each individual amino acid. 

It might be interesting to see how the sales of the better equipment have been this year. Of course we will all pay for that stuff by the way of higher dog food prices.


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