# Closed Mouth = Bad?



## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I came across this quote from Patricia McConnell:



> “Dogs will close their mouths when they’re on alert, and watching a mouth go from open to closed is a good way to know your dog has begun to concentrate on a change in the environment…A closed jaw by itself can’t tell you whether the dog is alerting to the chirp of a chipmunk or signaling to you that he’s about to bite, but going from open to closed is a key indicator that your dog is no longer in a happy-go-lucky frame of mind.”


Is there anything else that causes a dog to keep its mouth closed? If you've noticed from all the pictures I post, Kabota almost never has his mouth open. His mouth only ever stays open if it's hot enough that he needs to cool himself that way. (My avatar pic was taken on a warm day right after a walk.) No matter how happy, confident, etc., he's feeling, unless he's hot, Kabota does not open his mouth.

Kabota does have a mouth full of bad teeth, is that maybe why he doesn't open his mouth, or is he just stressed all the time? I know he wasn't treated well in his previous home, his hip is evidence of that, is it possible that somehow convinced him to keep his mouth shut?


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

"But going from open to closed is a key indicator that your dog is no longer in a happy-go-lucky frame of mind."

That's complete BS. My dogs will keep their mouths closed, even if in a "happy-go-lucky frame of mind", as well. Bad teeth have nothing to do with it.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Tainted said:


> "But going from open to closed is a key indicator that your dog is no longer in a happy-go-lucky frame of mind."
> 
> That's complete BS. My dogs will keep their mouths closed, even if in a "happy-go-lucky frame of mind", as well. Bad teeth have nothing to do with it.


Well, that's a relief! I'd hate to think of the poor dog being stressed all the time.

Part of my worry was that my previous dog was open mouthed all the time unless he was alerting to something or otherwise not relaxed. Kabota is just so much more . . . serious? self contained? controlled? than Muggsy was.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I think just like everything else, it really depends on the dog. Snowball definitely closes his mouth when something catches his attention (another dog on a walk, for example), but he also opens his mouth when he's unsure about something. The best example for the latter I can come up with is when he's really excited because we've just gotten home, or he's really into being cuddled, and one of us picks him up. His mouth will be closed for a bit, and then he'll open it but his ears will be back and he just looks really unsure, like he thinks he should enjoy it but just doesn't (or enjoys it but doesn't think he should.... I can't tell). From talking to behaviorists at the shelter, an open-mouthed dog is typically more relaxed than one with a closed mouth. That doesn't mean you can base the dog's mood on that alone - you still have to look at other body language as well - but as a general rule around dogs that I don't have the opportunity to get to know extremely well, IME it seems to hold.


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## Tylerthegiant (Apr 5, 2013)

You can never take only one body signal, or one out of context to read your dog. My dogs do the open/closed mouth Patricia is talking about all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean "stress," it can be more of an indication of possible intent to do something, going from a "la de da" thinking about nothing to on alert. My dogs do this all the time. Lucas is in his crate as I get ready to leave, his mouth open, he's watching DH walk around the kitchen and if my DH turns towards Lucas, mouth closes, Lucas sees turning towards him doesn't mean he's getting out and mouth opens and he continues panting, DH steps toward crate to get a glass of water, Lucas's mouth closes, as if he's getting ready for the acknowledgment that he is getting out of his crate. Watch for it and you'll see it and you'll know the context and what Patricia is saying will make a lot of sense.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Agreed. Not just closed mouth, but going from an open mouth to a closed mouth implies an increase in focus. 
Like you said, when a dog is not hot [Is that possible? My dog is hot in 40 degrees...] then he may not open his mouth.

In addition, a dog can't open his mouth and sniff at the same time (yes, he can, but they usually don't.), so a dog will close his mouth to smell.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

...I thought PANTING was a sign of stress, too. 

I doubt this is anything like all that clear cut. Bug and Thud have their mouths open most of the time. Jack and Kylie usually have their mouths closed, unless they're super excited, hot, or winded. Granted, those are the two more 'high strung' dogs, but I still don't think it's a sign of much.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

CptJack said:


> ...I thought PANTING was a sign of stress, too.
> 
> I doubt this is anything like all that clear cut. Bug and Thud have their mouths open most of the time. Jack and Kylie usually have their mouths closed, unless they're super excited, hot, or winded. Granted, those are the two more 'high strung' dogs, but I still don't think it's a sign of much.


Yes ... my dogs mouths are closed most of the time ... and if they have their mouths open to pant it is either because they are hot or stressed. Heck ... Leah Lu was barking out the window, panting and holding a bone in her mouth all at the same time this morning. She was clearly stressed by a strange vehicle going down the road.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I'd say that aside from panting from heat or excitement, Chester tends to have his mouth a little open or jaw relaxed when he is relaxed and kinda "la la la" about the world. 
When he is more focused, whether on me holding a treat or on prey in the yard, or sniffing intently, or when something alerts him, then he does tend to have his mouth closed. In photos we tease that it is "serious dog is serious" because he can be so intent on squirrels, rabbits, whatever catches his attention.

To me, not being "happy-go-lucky" does NOT mean that the dog is not longer happy, it means he is not longer all "whatever, do da do" about his surroundings-- he could in fact be very happy while sniffing or on the hunt but isn't "happy go lucky" anymore. Doesn't necessarily mean the dog is stressed in any way.

I think as a general indicator that I agree with her quote and description, but of course knowing your dog and the overall body language and the situation will tell you the rest of the story.

Here's something of an example of what I am talking about- these photos were taken about 1-2 minutes apart and the main difference is that in one photo, she was focused on me and in the next photo, she had noticed some wildlife and her prey drive was inching up


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Leslie McDevitt writes some interesting things in Control Unleashed about closed vs open mouth. She's writing about competition or sport type environments and says that a panting dog (if it's not hot out) is nervous or overstimulated. She actually trains her dogs to close their mouths and exhale through their nose on cue, as a way to focus and calm them. 

I've definitely noticed this with Watson, since he is the type to get over stimulated in classes. At home he can have a happy open mouth and be totally relaxed, but in class he'll have his tongue hanging out and a crazy ADD look in his eyes while panting. If I can get him to look at me and close his mouth for a minute and breathe through his nose, he does seem to re-focus. Then again, sometimes he just closes his mouth and holds his breath, which can definitely fall under the category of tense and ready to spring into action ("What are we doing now, mom?"). In general, he's a pretty mouth-open dog.

Thinking about some other dogs in his classes, the tervuren puppies almost never have their mouths open, and they always seem calm and focused. They are very reserved and self contained dogs though, while Watson is totally the opposite of reserved, so that might have something to do with it.

I would disagree that a closed mouth always means tension, but a dog going from open mouth to closed might, like a dog with a relaxed open mouth suddenly alerting to a squirrel and closing his mouth. It's not necessarily negative tension, just a "hey, what's that?"


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you for your replies. Kabota is difficult to read. One of the most unfortunate side effects of punishment based training on very soft dogs is that those dogs learn to stop giving much in the way of body language around people. Kabota's body language at the dog park is very big, obvious and readable, but with people, it's virtually nonexistent. I try to respond to what I see to encourage more, but it's definitely a work in progress. It doesn't seem to really occur to him that communicating is a thing with people, or maybe he just doesn't know how to approach it.

For example, when he wants to play with his flirt pole, he stands next to it. That's it. If I don't happen to be looking in that direction, I'm not going to know he wants to play. 

I would say that Kabota is a very aware, thoughtful dog, always noticing and considering things, obsessed with scents and just overall rather serious. So maybe relaxed for him is a far more intense state than for other dogs.

Well, thanks for allaying my fears. I want Kabota to be happy and comfortable, the thought that perhaps he isn't is distressing.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

"Dogs will close their mouths when they’re on alert, and watching a mouth go from open to closed is a good way to know your dog has begun to concentrate on a change in the environment….... going from open to closed is a key indicator that your dog is no longer in a happy-go-lucky frame of mind."

Mine do always close their mouths when on alert.
"On alert" waiting for me to throw another toy or "on alert" in the attempt to sneak up and pull the tail on another when that one runs to chase the toy I've tossed. 
Or better yet: "on alert" waiting for another treat! lol 

All usually include a very happy state of mind.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think its meant to indicate that the dog is no longer happy - an open-to-closed mouth just means the dog is turning his attention to something specific, concentrating or focusing on something. Like people... some are able to daydream, and some are serious, focused, paying attention all the time.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Closed mouth with wrinkle at the muzzles = ready to snap maybe...
But doesn't refer to most closed mouth I don't think...

Roman have a habit of shut mouth with the tip od his tongue sticking out... cute face, not bite face.


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