# Natural Balance and Merrick



## roxiefoxie08 (Dec 15, 2011)

I am switching the Merrick to Natural Balance hope they do better on this food to the potato and duck formula not sure if the bison is any good lol


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## shellbeme (Sep 9, 2010)

You know, I dont think either one is a bad food at all, but when I looked over the ingredient list for nb,it was sort of like, how about some meat with your potato?


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## roxiefoxie08 (Dec 15, 2011)

shellbeme said:


> You know, I dont think either one is a bad food at all, but when I looked over the ingredient list for nb,it was sort of like, how about some meat with your potato?


what do you mean?


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

For the most part, the NB limited ingredient diets are used when a dog has allergies or certain health issues. The first ingredient in these formulas is usually potato or sweet potato and not a meat ingredient. Their protein percentage is on the lower side which reflects this. Most people are of the belief that dogs need meat, and lots of it lol, so with meat not being the first ingredient I would ascertain this is what shellbeme meant by their comment. That being said, why are you switching to NB and why did you choose this particular brand? Sorry if I missed your story somewhere along the line, but I haven't been on here in awhile. NB and Merrick are indeed both decent foods, but I'm just curious.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

having just spent 5 months and a few thousand dollars on my dogs GI issues....... my feeling on WHY the food mentioned don't list meat high up on the ingredient list is b/c many allergic dogs are in fact allergic to meat proteins. Sounds strange right? But it's true. The allergic dogs can't process the meat proteins, or rather their bodies think meat proteins are an allergen and treat it accordingly.

My dog has spent the last 5 months eating hydrolyzed chicken protein and mostly plant based protein. Lots of corn actually. But she's gained weight, coat and nails are great, she no longer throws up everything. I hate the ingredient list on my dogs food, hence the reason I'm switching her to the NB foods. But in certain cases it's what works for certain dogs.


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## roxiefoxie08 (Dec 15, 2011)

NRB said:


> having just spent 5 months and a few thousand dollars on my dogs GI issues....... my feeling on WHY the food mentioned don't list meat high up on the ingredient list is b/c many allergic dogs are in fact allergic to meat proteins. Sounds strange right? But it's true. The allergic dogs can't process the meat proteins, or rather their bodies think meat proteins are an allergen and treat it accordingly.
> 
> My dog has spent the last 5 months eating hydrolyzed chicken protein and mostly plant based protein. Lots of corn actually. But she's gained weight, coat and nails are great, she no longer throws up everything. I hate the ingredient list on my dogs food, hence the reason I'm switching her to the NB foods. But in certain cases it's what works for certain dogs.


 what food are you feed your dog?


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

roxiefoxie08 said:


> what food are you feed your dog?


per vets orders I feed a prescription diet that I can only buy at the vets. I mix Purina HA kibble with Hills z-d canned. And I have to feed 3x a day to get the calories into her. But as mentioned I am slowly transitioning her off. First by adding salmon, then adding sweet potato to the HA foods. And now I'm bringing in the NB food and backing off the Purina/Hills food. I'm only 1/4 the way there. And so far so good.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

For dogs with GI issues I would suggest a raw diet. She may not be allergic to unprocessed meats. Definitely switch off the Purina and Hills as soon as you can, it has pretty bad ingredients.


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## roxiefoxie08 (Dec 15, 2011)

NRB said:


> per vets orders I feed a prescription diet that I can only buy at the vets. I mix Purina HA kibble with Hills z-d canned. And I have to feed 3x a day to get the calories into her. But as mentioned I am slowly transitioning her off. First by adding salmon, then adding sweet potato to the HA foods. And now I'm bringing in the NB food and backing off the Purina/Hills food. I'm only 1/4 the way there. And so far so good.


thats good which NB flavor are you feeding her


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

LilasMom said:


> For dogs with GI issues I would suggest a raw diet. She may not be allergic to unprocessed meats. Definitely switch off the Purina and Hills as soon as you can, it has pretty bad ingredients.


Raw is not an option in this house. Dog has beard, beard traps meat juices, dog licks 4 yo daughter on the mouth frequently and daughter could get sick. DD also handles dog alot, and would easily run a hand by the dirty beard, then rub fingers in her mouth, eyes, whatever. I'm too paranoid. Friend is USDA international meat inspector. So I know our meat is not safe for people to consume raw. It has to be cooked to kill off pathogens dangerous to humans. So while my dd is still young, short and within reach of doggie kisses feeding raw is not an option. I am being serious in that the USDA allows acceptable levels of contamination in our meat supply. E-coli, salmonella, listeria

As to the comment on the HIlls and Purina having bad ingredients... no kidding. But seriously my own vet said I'd be horrified to read the ingredients list BUT in this case it's what we could do to stop the dog from vomiting up everything she eats. She explained the science behind her reasoning and it made sense to me. And hey it worked. Are you a vet? 


roxiefoxie08 said:


> thats good which NB flavor are you feeding her


Salmon and sweet potato. Only b/c I could test her on salmon and sp first for 3 weeks to make sure that she has no reaction to it before trying the kibble.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

I second the raw suggestion. When a meat protein is cooked it changes chemically and the shape changes. The food allergy response in dogs is triggered when the body recognizes the shape of the protein. Cooking a meat changes the shape. So if your dog is allergic to cooked meat raw might be a viable option. If I'm correct (this is according to an allergist I've spoken to) hydrolyzed proteins simply have altered shapes form their original form so that the body doesn't recognize that protein. In essence you're tricking the body into thinking chicken is not chicken and in fact something else.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

Hallie said:


> If I'm correct (this is according to an allergist I've spoken to) hydrolyzed proteins simply have altered shapes form their original form so that the body doesn't recognize that protein. In essence you're tricking the body into thinking chicken is not chicken and in fact something else.


you are correct. Hydrolyzed meat protein is meat protein that has been broken down and reconstructed so that the body does not recognize it as meat protein, thus doesn't have an allergic reaction to it. Assuming that the dog is allergic to meat proteins.... 

And I have to add that a dog with a dirty meat juice filled beard licking my 4yo daughter on the lips is my idea of parental failure. I just can't go raw because I can't prevent that from happening. Young children are in the high risk group for food born illness like salmonella, e-coli, listeria and etc. Our meat supply contains acceptable levels of salmonella, e-coli, listeria etc b/c our raw meat is supposed to be cooked before it is consumed.

Raw is still not an option for everyone. But i will say that if this dog had such bad GI issues that she had to eat raw, it would break my heart but I would have to find her a new home with someone who would feed raw.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

message to short.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

NRB said:


> Raw is still not an option for everyone. But i will say that if this dog had such bad GI issues that she had to eat raw, it would break my heart but I would have to find her a new home with someone who would feed raw.


I agree. Kids definitely change things, but you have to consider the health of the dog. I probably wouldn't do raw either if I had young children, although you could make him eat in a separate room and then clean his beard.

No, I am not a vet, NRB. But I do think that your vets food is not the only option. It may have worked but I doubt it is helping the underlying issues if it is the only food he can eat. It will take weeks and trial and error most likely, but it would be unhealthy for him to stay on Purina or Hills for the rest of his life, vet food or not. Have you considered a commercial raw food? Many come in little "niblets" or "medallions" that make eating it a bit cleaner. Also, while not as healthy as fresh or frozen raw, dehydrated raw could work for you. I am not sure about GI issues since it has been dehydrated so maybe someone her can help me out.

Does anyone know if dehydrated raw has any of the GI benefits or fresh or frozen raw? Like, will the body not respond to it as well since it sort of has been processed in a way?


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## Goldens&Labs4Me (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm with you NRB--I have a 2 1/2 year old son--so raw isn't (and probably won't be) an option for us right now, or any time soon.

I do believe in feeding the best quality kibble I can afford--but I also realize and respect that occasionally there is a dog that not only does well on something like Purina/Hills but thrives on it and it is necessary.

I wish you all the best with the NB--but more importantly, I hope you are able to keep the issues at bay, whatever you choose to feed.


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## mitzi (Aug 3, 2010)

Is Nature's Variety Instinct an option? It's raw but clean medallions or patties without the juicy mess. It has the raw meat and bone plus some veggies and is a great diet for dogs with allergies. You have your choice of meats too, I keep two varieties on hand for Bosley. There's also the Stella and Chewies brand and dehydrated meals. I'd go with the prepared raw if it were me. No mess to hurt the little one.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

I feel the need to apologize to the OP for totally derailing his/her topic. Maybe I should start my own thread? 

But to reply I also want to say that I appreciate the discussion on raw feeding. Some raw folks come off as "My way or the highway" and that tends to get my guard up. You folks are dong a nice job of discussing it.

The vet and I never intended to keep this dog on the HA foods. Even the out of town GI specialist that I hauled to and spent a few days in the clinic is in agreement that switching the dog off the HA foods gradually is a worth while endeavor.

And the NB was the best bet that I found from reading ingredient lists in the boutique dog food shop I frequent. So that's my attempt to bring this topic back to the original post on NB foods.

I do have my dogs optimal health as my intent. But it is balanced with my daughters optimal health. Actually my daughter wins out. I currently feed 3 x a day and the dogs beard is just gross from the canned food. I plunk her in the tub to wash it out, wipes don't do a good enough job. In the past when I added a TB of canned pumpkin (fiber responsive colitis) the pumpkin was horrid in her beard. So I don't see how raw meat juices in the beard will ever get cleaned out with a wipe. My daughter is a dog freak, she loves, eats sleeps and breaths dogs. She spends most of her time on all fours pretending to be a dog or a horse. She is all over that dog (supervised of course) Most normal 4yo's are Not this dog obsessed. And raw probably would work in a house with a normal, non dog obsessed 4yo.. But this child is in physical contact with that dog alot.. more than any other kid I've seen. And lets face it, I'm busy busy and don't want to bath that beard 1 or 2x a day.

What little I've read on raw feeding (from stickies on this forum) one poster mentioned that a Bad Raw diet would be far worse than most kibble diet. They and others have mentioned that it is not for a dog with a compromised health system.... Now I get it that just about every raw feeder thinks it's the best thing on the planet to do for your dog and will give optimal health. BUT what if you are already starting with a GI issue?

And what do raw feeders use as training treats. Not raw meat in a bait bag.....


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## roxiefoxie08 (Dec 15, 2011)

NRB said:


> I feel the need to apologize to the OP for totally derailing his/her topic. Maybe I should start my own thread?
> 
> But to reply I also want to say that I appreciate the discussion on raw feeding. Some raw folks come off as "My way or the highway" and that tends to get my guard up. You folks are dong a nice job of discussing it.
> 
> ...


nature's variety also sell kibbles


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

roxiefoxie08 said:


> nature's variety also sell kibbles


But it doesn't have the best ingredients. Even their instinct dry has a ton of tapioca and alfalfa. With the brand nature's variety, I would stick with the raw food. But that is just my opinion. 

Raw diets aren't for everyone. It just so happens to not work with you right now, and that is fine. I would probably find a high quality kibble that works for your dog and maybe 1-3 times a week replace one of the meals with a raw meaty bone. My dogs are under ten pounds so I use cornish game hen or chicken wings and necks. It is also GREAT for keeping their teeth clean. That way you still get some benefits of raw but only have to clean a beard 2-3 times a week.


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