# Great... Xena bit my roommate



## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Last night I was playing a game on my laptop and since I knew I wouldn't be able to watch Xena very closely while I played I had her sit on the couch behind me since she likes that and she will stay there as long as I'm sitting there and out of trouble. My roommate came home, I said hi, he said hi, he came over to sit on the other couch and smoke a cigarette. I'm playing for a little while then he gets up, walks over and I didn't think much of it until I heard Xena growling. More like a snarl, really. I have never heard her make a noise like that, I wasn't even sure it was her. I turned to look just in time to see my roommate reach for her and her bite him on the hand. Not a horrible bite but it broke the skin a little and bruised it. He yells at me to get her off the couch, I said I was home alone and playing league of legends so I wanted to keep her quiet for 20 minutes and if he wanted her off of the couch he could have said something and I would have pushed her off. Why the hell she bit him I have no clue, she is so scared around him lately I wonder how he treats her when I'm gone. But I think most likely it is because of how he plays with her. Just ticked off and ranting, Xena has actually been pretty good lately so I was focused more on Eko and helping him with his DA and now I have a dog that's biting people.


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## CaitlinandLudo (Apr 20, 2013)

If you're not sure how he treats her when you're gone, maybe you need a different roommate you can actually trust. Dogs are really good at deciphering who is good, and who isn't. He may have done something to her, and now she feels threatened by him, and feels the need to protect you. I'd watch your roommate and see how he acts/treats her when you are around. If he does something you don't like, say it. The dog can't speak and clearly does not like him.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

She warned him with a growl and then he reached for her? He is lucky all he got was a minor bite.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

CaitlinandLudo said:


> If you're not sure how he treats her when you're gone, maybe you need a different roommate you can actually trust. Dogs are really good at deciphering who is good, and who isn't. He may have done something to her, and now she feels threatened by him, and feels the need to protect you. I'd watch your roommate and see how he acts/treats her when you are around. If he does something you don't like, say it. The dog can't speak and clearly does not like him.


Trust me, I'd love a new roommate but he is my boyfriend's cousin so it's complicated. I keep her in the bedroom with me when I sleep during the day now but sometimes my boyfriend let's her out if she's whining to pee and that's when I don't know what all happens with her until I wake up. I agree she really is starting to dislike him, I am very interested to hear why but he says he doesn't know why she wouldn't like him.



ludosmum said:


> She warned him with a growl and then he reached for her? He is lucky all he got was a minor bite.


He said she growled the first tine he reached for her and he was going to teach her never to growl at him. He reached again and she bit. I told him well yeah, why would you try again after she let out that god awful sound??


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> He said she growled the first tine he reached for her and he was going to teach her never to growl at him. He reached again and she bit. I told him well yeah, why would you try again after she let out that god awful sound??


If he was behaving this way with her in your presence, I think you already answered your question as to what he does with her when you're not there. You REALLY need to protect this dog from these guys, or she's going to be pushed into an even worse bite, and pay for it with her life. Get a crate and padlock it when you're sleeping/away if you have to. That, or move out and find your own room-mate that you can trust.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

I like the crate with padlock( or better yet padlock door to your room when you are away)... I guess the crates more moveable in case of fire or something, but I really wonder if in case of emergency your roommates' would stop to save your dog....

I had a roommate who clearly disliked our Boxer puppy, and the dog started barking at him and running out of the room when he entered, and then he asked me one day how big the puppy was gonna get, I told him 75lbs, and then, he started leaving the room when puppy was there (he moved out soon after)....


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Kuma'sMom said:


> If he was behaving this way with her in your presence, I think you already answered your question as to what he does with her when you're not there. You REALLY need to protect this dog from these guys, or she's going to be pushed into an even worse bite, and pay for it with her life. Get a crate and padlock it when you're sleeping/away if you have to. That, or move out and find your own room-mate that you can trust.


This. If your boyfriend cares anything about you, he will tell cousin to find a new place to live.
Your dog is most likely being abused in the name of "training". If your dog seriously bites the guy, he is either going to REALLY hurt her/kill her, or insist you have her put down.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> He said she growled the first tine he reached for her and he was going to teach her never to growl at him. He reached again and she bit. I told him well yeah, why would you try again after she let out that god awful sound??


He reached for her, she was afraid so she warned him (showing restraint). He then probably got angry (dogs are very adept at sensing human emotions) and she was further afraid for her safety and he wasn't listening to her warnings so she reacted instinctively to protect herself. She bit him lightly. Had she wanted to, he could have lost his hand. She showed restraint again. 

How, exactly, was he going to "teach her never to growl at him?" That sounds ominous. Growling is not bad, growling is good. Growling is a warning and shows restraint. You don't want a dog that is afraid to growl because a dog afraid to growl is a dog that bites with no warning.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I agree with the others. If you continue to live with this guy, something worse is going to happen.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I have a crate, I can get a lock for it and that will solve that. That's a good idea  

I really hope that he's not doing anything to her, he used to really like her but he has been meaner to her lately. Like just easily frustrated at her, he was acting like he was getting ready to do something when she bit him but I grabbed her first and put her in her crate for a time out. He has a really bad temper I know if she had bitten him harder he would have probably freaked out. 

I told them no more spanking her anymore or dragging her to the bedroom by her collar so they haven't done it that I have seen since then but maybe they're still doing it. The lock should solve that.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

ludosmum said:


> How, exactly, was he going to "teach her never to growl at him?" That sounds ominous. Growling is not bad, growling is good. Growling is a warning and shows restraint. You don't want a dog that is afraid to growl because a dog afraid to growl is a dog that bites with no warning.


I don't know, when he said it I felt the same way, like what is that supposed to mean? He never said how, I don't even want to imagine what he meant.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree with the others that I would be really concerned about how he treats her when you're gone. Does she have the run of the house when you're not there? I would confine her to a bedroom or something where he would have no excuse to interact with her. Many people treat animals poorly when the animal gets in their way, but are less likely to out of their way to do harm.



Sarah~ said:


> she is so scared around him lately I wonder how he treats her when I'm gone. But I think most likely it is because of how he plays with her.


If it's actually play, I doubt it has anything to do with the bite. I wrestle with my dog all the time and he's very mouthy, but he never growls at me or bites me. Those things are unrelated to dogs. If he's "playing" with her and she is actually afraid and uncomfortable, then that could be part of it.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> He said she growled the first tine he reached for her and he was going to teach her never to growl at him.


Yeah.... I'd bet money this guy is getting rough with her to "teach her things" while you're gone.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> If it's actually play, I doubt it has anything to do with the bite. I wrestle with my dog all the time and he's very mouthy, but he never growls at me or bites me. Those things are unrelated to dogs. If he's "playing" with her and she is actually afraid and uncomfortable, then that could be part of it.


Well, when he comes in the room she jumps up and starts walking all around the room with her tail straight up and she snaps at the air. He says do you want to fight and she runs around him and snaps at his hands and legs and he pushes her away. Usually when he is going over to her it's to play or punish her so pretty much any time he is around her she's walking around and snapping at him. 

Maybe she didn't want to move out from behind me? Wish she could talk sometimes.

I hope he didn't mean anything bad when he said "teach her" but I'm not going to find out she's going to be locked up or with me all the time now.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Based on your description of this episode, I believe that your roommate would have freaked out... if you hadn't been there. 

Your dog can communicate if you're watching and know what to watch for. Usually, if given the chance, a dog will show some body language before it growls. Obviously, if you see the tail go down or the ears go back, you want to be alert to the changes. In addition, if the dog licks her lips or nose, or yawns as someone approaches, that could be a signal that she is uncomfortable with the approach.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

If the guy is teaching her not to growl then the risk of a bite WITHOUT warning goes up exponentially...


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I'd say it is highly likely that he is being cruel to her while you are not there. While any dog _can_ be human aggressive, pit bulls tend to be very tolerant and patient of people and far LESS likely to be human aggressive as a breed than many other popular breeds. Her body language when he is in the room, her reaction to him coming near her and near you, her warning growl that he ignored, his comments-- all signs point towards him (and maybe other men in the house) being mean to her. 

I think that if you have to padlock your dog's crate to prevent a human that you live with from hurting the dog, then you shouldn't be living with that human. The way a person treats an animal speaks a lot to their character and trustworthiness. 

If she bites again, she quite probably will die for it. I'm sorry, but quite frankly I think you simply need to leave. Not one thing you've mentioned about your living situation speaks of a safe and healthy environment for you or your dog.


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## mashlee08 (Feb 24, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> she is so scared around him lately I wonder how he treats her when I'm gone.





Sarah~ said:


> I have a crate, I can get a lock for it and that will solve that. That's a good idea
> 
> I really hope that he's not doing anything to her, he used to really like her* but he has been meaner to her lately*. Like just easily frustrated at her, he was acting like he was getting ready to do something when she bit him but I grabbed her first and put her in her crate for a time out. *He has a really bad temper* I know if she had bitten him harder he would have probably freaked out.
> 
> *I told them no more spanking her anymore or dragging her to the bedroom by her collar* so they haven't done it that I have seen since then but maybe they're still doing it. The lock should solve that.





Sarah~ said:


> Well, when he comes in the room she jumps up and starts walking all around the room with her tail straight up and she snaps at the air. He says do you want to fight and she runs around him and snaps at his hands and legs and he pushes her away. *Usually when he is going over to her it's to play or punish her so pretty* much any time he is around her she's walking around and snapping at him.


WHY ARE YOU LETTING SOMEONE ELSE SPANK OR PUNISH YOUR DOG?! Chances are even if you asked him to stop, he would still do these things while you aren't around. To who knows what extent if he has a bad temper, people that have a temper and are intolerant of dogs DO NOT MIX WELL IN THE SAME HOUSE. If none of this points out red flags, then I don't know what does.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yea if he admits to wanting to teach her a lesson while you're right there, god only knows what he does when you're not. No wonder she growls at him. He's bad news.


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## JTurner (May 19, 2013)

For the most part, I'm a quiet passive person, but when it comes to my dog NOBODY would get away with spanking and dragging my dog around. I don't know your situation, but it sounds to me that your dog and possibly you need to both get out of that situation. From what it sounds like, Xena seems like a sweetie and should not be treated harshly, well that goes for all dogs. Keep her away from it


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## Voi (Nov 27, 2013)

From what I've gathered, your roommate doesn't understand hardly anything about dogs. (He probably needs to be educated in body language, at least.) Its his fault, not your dog's, but if you don't do anything about it, then next time your roommate does something that makes the dog feel threatened or feel the need to protect you, it will be serious next time. If you don't want your dog to be put down, you need to do something, 'boyfriend's cousin' or not.

Besides Its YOUR dog, not his. He has no right to do anything to her.
Also, he shouldn't be punishing your dog in the first place! One should never physically punish or 'spank' a dog, it doesn't work. Positive reinforcement is the best way to train and correct a dog.



Sarah~ said:


> Well, when he comes in the room she jumps up and starts walking all around the room with her tail straight up and she snaps at the air. He says do you want to fight and she runs around him and snaps at his hands and legs and he pushes her away. Usually when he is going over to her it's to play or punish her so pretty much any time he is around her she's walking around and snapping at him.


That doesn't sound like friendly behavior, right? If all he does is 'play' (yeah, right) or punish her, then obviously she's going to be guarded and wary of him. According to what you've said, your roommate is not training your dog. He is abusing her.

Its a bad situation :l Good luck


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## TheOtherCorgi (Sep 18, 2013)

I don't want to come off harshly here. I work on that on a daily basis, believe it or not. I do understand that sometimes love and living situations can be complicated. However, I can tell you right now that if anyone ever dragged my dogs by their collars or spanked them at all that they would not be allowed around my dogs. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable. Dogs do not respond well to bullying, just like people don't. 

I'm often amazed at the restraint that dogs present when it comes to humans. 

I can't tell you to move, because I don't know your situation. But, you've posted here often regarding the bad relationship your boyfriend has with your dog and now his cousin is developing a bad rapor with Xena and I feel it's likely that they're ganging up on her when you're not around. 

In your situation, what I would consider doing is investing in a few nanny cams around the house. Maybe if you saw what was actually happening it would present your living situation in a different light.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

TheOtherCorgi said:


> In your situation, what I would consider doing is investing in a few nanny cams around the house. Maybe if you saw what was actually happening it would present your living situation in a different light.


This is an excellent idea. Instead of speculating, or asking and possibly being lied to, you can set up secret cameras and see for yourself.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

I was going to also suggest the nanny cams, but I see that someone beat me to it. Get the nanny cams but do NOT tell anyone you are getting them and place them around the house. Just be prepared. You might see stuff you did not want to see. If you have a gut feeling about something it usually is right.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I wonder if it had anything to do with the cigarette,my Rott and past Newfie did not like smokers,my rott would even bare his fangs at me if I smoked to near him.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

In Ludo's six years only one person has ever laid hands on him. It did not end well for that person. Everyone I know understands that Ludo is MY dog, that I do not condone physical punishment of MY dog and that if they do so (or attempt it, really) they will find that I will protect MY dog and remove that person from my life. Xena, like Ludo, only has one way to protect herself - with her teeth. She showed great restraint by warning with a growl (and all those air snaps) before biting and then restraint by biting lightly instead of tearing his hand to shreds. 

You know my opinion on your living situation. I wish you luck, and I know it isn't easy for you. However, you need to do what is best for Xena because she relies on you to protect her from these monsters.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Nanny cams are a great idea. I personally think you & the dog need to move out, alone but that's not going to happen.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> I have a crate, I can get a lock for it and that will solve that. That's a good idea


 That will solve nothing. Nor will the nanny cams.

One way or another, this dog needs ... DESERVES .. nothing short of a home environment free from toxicity, one where even the notion of using such devices is absolutely unwarranted.

I mean, it's one thing if you're taking those measures to somehow protect the dog from HIMSELF, but it's another thing altogether when you're doing it to prevent abuse by a human.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Also, isn't this the dog with epilepsy? Stress is really, *really*, *REALLY* bad for people dealing with epilepsy and I can only imagine how stressful Xena's life might be if she is being mistreated while you aren't there. I mean if she is circling around the room and air snapping at him she is majorly stressed just by his presence. That is not healthy for a "normal" dog (or human) yet alone for one with a condition like epilepsy.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Yes Xena does have epilepsy. I don't think my boyfriend is doing anything to her, she is comfortable around him and she goes to see him sometimes. Since I asked him not to punish her my boyfriend has pretty much ignored her entirely, she ignores him most of the time too so I'm ok with that. It's just his cousin that she gets on edge as soon as she sees or hears him. 

I got a lock for her cage while I try to figure out how to get a nanny cam without at least my boyfriend finding out. I don't know for sure anything happened that's why I haven't really done or said anything up until now if I knew he was abusing her for sure I'd be very upset. I really yelled at him the one time I saw him slap her in the face for nipping him too hard when he played with her, that was a long time ago since then I haven't seen him do anything like that except spank her and he dragged her one time when she chewed up a toilet paper roll to rub her nose in it. Now whenever they get mad at her I jump up and go to her first so they don't even have the chance to do it even though they said they wouldn't.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Get a camera and hide it somewhere ... You can pick one up Pretty cheap most places. It would be a red flag to me if a dog suddenly started acting strange about someone ... That's how I figured out that my former (hint that's why she is a former) boss's son was teasing Izze. I hD noticed she had grown very wary And aggressive of him to the point where I had to lock her away in the house while they were here.

I would video tape common areas where you know they interact while you are gone, then if you do catch him being mean to her, copy the tape then turn it in to the authorities.


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## JulieK1967 (May 29, 2011)

If your computer has a camera, get the app iCam. It uses your computer's camera to detect any motion in the room & it records it. The recording is then sent to your smartphone so you can see what's happening at home when you're not there. The computer app is free and the phone app is about 3.99.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Sarah~ said:


> if I knew he was abusing her for sure I'd be very upset.
> * He IS abusing her if he did what you stated below...*
> 
> 
> I really yelled at him the one time I saw him slap her in the face for nipping him too hard when he played with her, that was a long time ago since then I haven't seen him do anything like that except spank her and he dragged her one time when she chewed up a toilet paper roll to rub her nose in it. .


Dragging her to rub her nose in chewed up toilet paper is abuse and and does nothing to stop the chewing up of stuff. It CAN majke a dog aggressive though, and react by biting when someone's hand approaches them..

There is no need to "Spank" a dog. Again, that can also make them aggressive.

He's teaching your dog to bite and be untrustworthy and aggressive. Your dog is going to end up paying with her life, either because he injures her severely, or she bites him (or someone else) due to his acts, and she'll be ordered euthed.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Unless I'm thinking of the wrong poster (and I may very well be), the same flags are waving in my mind & I am thinking again that I wonder the reason she's posting about "dog abuse"; real or to get some of us "going"?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I dont think this is that same person.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I was thinking the same thing about a webcam. Our pc faces the living room and hallway so it has the best angle.

I didn't do anything except yell at him for slapping her because I have never seen him do it before and I thought maybe she really hurt him when he nipped and he just reacted without thinking, if I catch him on video doing it again I will be very angry and have no problems turning a copy over to the police. 

I don't know who InkedMarie is talking about but all of this is true and really happening to me. If you think I'm a liar or trying to get everyone all riled up that's fine I can't make you believe me. I appreciate all the advice from everyone and I am going to try to catch him doing it if it is happening.


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## JTurner (May 19, 2013)

Usually I stay out of these sort of threads but...My greatest worry is that if both of these guys have been caught by you abusing the dog, imagine what is happening behind your back :/. Where they are free to do whatever they want to her. Just be prepared to find abuse on those webcams. The authorities, at least around here, don't seem to do much for animal abuse because they have "more important" things to do, so it may be up to you to get you and your dog (at least your dog) out of that situation. I wish you the best of luck with this situation.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I am not sure police would do anything about someone spanking a dog? Unfortunately a lot of people believe you should spank a dog but that can cause some less tolerant dogs to aggress back at the person who spanked them. 

I really think you need to get new roomates. The dude sounds like he has some major anger issues.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sarah~ said:


> I was thinking the same thing about a webcam. Our pc faces the living room and hallway so it has the best angle.
> 
> I didn't do anything except yell at him for slapping her because I have never seen him do it before and I thought maybe she really hurt him when he nipped and he just reacted without thinking, if I catch him on video doing it again I will be very angry and have no problems turning a copy over to the police.


Generally, "harsh" training isn't considered animal abuse. Under the law in most places, you can smack a dog, drag a dog by a collar, yell or spank the dog and such. It is "training" 
Laws usually require pretty minimal actions-- food, water, shelter from the elements, vet treatment for obvious illness or injury, and not using the dog for dog fighting or intentionally causing severe injury. Whacking a dog with an open hand obviously isn't treating the dog right, but it isn't going to injure the dog in a way that will get the authorities concerned (overall).

If you use webcams/nanny cams and the cams are discovered by your boyfriend or his cousin, what do you think their reaction will be? Aside from the way he may be treating the dog, there is an expectation of privacy when one is alone in one's home. Even doing nothing wrong, he could be embarrassed and angry about what he could consider an invasion of privacy. Maybe he picks his nose or scratches his private parts or walks around in tighty-whities singing karaoke. I'm not saying that cams aren't an option, just that you should consider that they could cause as many problems as they solve.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

She lives there too and there for has a right to set up cameras ... Regardless of what they might catch. If someone was mistreating my dog I really don't care about their privacy at this point. 

I know this isn't what people want to hear ... But, if he is smacking her and jerking her around, she can't at least get him for "destruction of property" or something like that?


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## gsdhunter (Nov 10, 2013)

Things seem to be getting worse and worse in this household.

I honestly think you should either move or re home the dog.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> She lives there too and there for has a right to set up cameras ... Regardless of what they might catch. If someone was mistreating my dog I really don't care about their privacy at this point.
> 
> I know this isn't what people want to hear ... But, if he is smacking her and jerking her around, she can't at least get him for "destruction of property" or something like that?


She may NOT have the "right" to set up cameras. The roommate is a lawful resident in that home and has an expectation of privacy. 
A quick google search notes this:


> The laws of 13 states expressly prohibit the unauthorized installation or use of cameras in private places. In Alabama, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, South Dakota and Utah, installation or use of any device for photographing, observing or overhearing events or sounds in a private place without the permission of the people photographed or observed is against the law.


(Granted, the source is a site for selling surveillance cameras, but it is about what I expected to read)

My point wasn't just about legality though. It was basically "Will this dude beat the living daylights out of you and/or your dog if the webcams are discovered"? 

Another reference:


> In 13 states, laws stipulate that hidden cameras cannot be placed in private places, according to the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. “A private place is one where a person may reasonably expect to be safe from unauthorized surveillance,” the RCFP writes. Such places include bathrooms, dressing rooms, locker rooms and bedrooms.
> 
> The states that prohibit filming with a hidden camera in private places are Alabama, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, South Dakota and Utah. The states prohibit installing or using anything to photograph, observe or record people in those places without their permission.
> 
> ...


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

She can't re home the dog, she has seizures and other things that make her a tough candidate for re homing. That and she is a pit bull. 

Also even though what he's doing might not be punishable by law ... But I have found that when threatened with "I will turn it in to the police" or "make it public" in some way they take notice.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> She can't re home the dog, she has seizures and other things that make her a tough candidate for re homing. That and she is a pit bull.
> 
> Also even though what he's doing might not be punishable by law ...* But I have found that when threatened with "I will turn it in to the police" or "make it public" in some way they take notice.*


Oh yeah, people take notice. The question is, how do they react?

Like I said:


> Shell said:
> 
> 
> > My point wasn't just about legality though. It was basically "Will this dude beat the living daylights out of you and/or your dog if the webcams are discovered"?


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Shell,

My understanding, in Kansas at least, is that these laws cover if a nonresident installed a camera, but a legal resident can install a camera in their own home (these are her roommates so she lives there too) even if they intend to record other legal residents as long as the camera is placed in common areas. So, she couldn't install the camera in the cousin's bedroom or bathroom, but it would be legal for her to install it in the living room or kitchen. This is the gist I gathered a while back from a local row at KU when some kids taped their roommates doing something sketchy.

You are spot on about what her boyfriend/cousin might do, though, if they find out about the cameras. I believe this is the same poster who started a thread that devolved into _most_ members urging her to seek professional guidance because the relationship appeared to be very abusive. Given that context, one can only imagine the _consequences_ for surreptitiously videotaping.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Emmett said:


> Shell,
> 
> My understanding, in Kansas at least, is that these laws cover if a nonresident installed a camera, but a legal resident can install a camera in their own home (these are her roommates so she lives there too) even if they intend to record other legal residents as long as the camera is placed in common areas. So, she couldn't install the camera in the cousin's bedroom or bathroom, but it would be legal for her to install it in the living room or kitchen. This is the gist I gathered a while back from a local row at KU when some kids taped their roommates doing something sketchy.
> 
> You are spot on about what her boyfriend/cousin might do, though, if they find out about the cameras. I believe this is the same poster who started a thread that devolved into _most_ members urging her to seek professional guidance because the relationship appeared to be very abusive. Given that context, one can only imagine the _consequences_ for surreptitiously videotaping.


Oh yeah, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not going to delve into Kansas law about what specific rooms may have an expectation of privacy. Just as a person though, I think that a common room in a home or apartment has more rights to privacy than a common room in a dormitory, hostel or boarding house. I mean, I've shared houses before and it would have both creeped me out and ticked me off if a roommate had been videoing me in the living room say, having a romantic moment with a date... If no one else is home, most people will reasonably think they are truly alone in their own residence.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Shell said:


> Oh yeah, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not going to delve into Kansas law about what specific rooms may have an expectation of privacy. Just as a person though, I think that a common room in a home or apartment has more rights to privacy than a common room in a dormitory, hostel or boarding house. I mean, I've shared houses before and it would have both creeped me out and ticked me off if a roommate had been videoing me in the living room say, having a romantic moment with a date... If no one else is home, most people will reasonably think they are truly alone in their own residence.


Not a lawyer either and this is just what I gleaned from news stories years back, so it should be taken with a grain of salt. Also, definitely would be creepy and infuriating to find out your roommate was taping you even in common areas, but I suppose the idea behind it having less of an expectation of privacy is that if you live in a residence with roommates they could, conceivably, walk into the living room or kitchen at any time...not so much for your personal bed or bathroom.


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## Kudzu (Aug 15, 2013)

Sarah,

From what I've read in your posts, not just this thread, but others too....you're a good person who means well, but...you really need to take charge of your life and the well being of your dog, and quit letting these guys push you around. From what you've said, I predict a very sad and preventable outcome for this dog, and if that happens, you'll have no one to blame but yourself. You need to get control of that household, or get out for both of your sakes.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

@ Shell 
But if she puts a camera in her room (HER private space) or say ... The living room (a common space) I don't believe would be violating any law. 

I like my states law where hidden cameras are legal as long as they are places there by *someone who lives at the residence and aren't used to record sexual activity with out consent*

From what I have read most other states are pretty much the same, a resident of the home mounting a camera is not the same as say a PI or a party who doesn't live at the residence mounting cameras. 

Why don't you want her to take steps to Try and help her dog? I think she is nicer then I am ... If I caught him treating any of my dogs like this he would be thrown out at gunpoint ... And I ain't lying.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Why don't you want her to take steps to Try and help her dog?


This is not what she's doing at all, what she is trying to point out, beyond the legal aspects, is the ramifications if Sarah's roommates found out about the camera. Plain and simple Sarah has previously posted that both guys have anger issues and trouble controlling their tempers. So if they find out about a camera placed there specifically to record them unknowingly, how exactly do you think they will react? Maybe they wouldn't do anything to Sarah, but it is not a stretch to be concerned that something tragic could befall Xena in such a household. Shell pointed this out twice to you.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Why don't you want her to take steps to Try and help her dog? I think she is nicer then I am ... If I caught him treating any of my dogs like this he would be thrown out at gunpoint ... And I ain't lying.


Of course I want her to protect her dog. But I would also want her to protect herself. IGNORING THE LEGAL QUESTIONS, putting up cams could put her at risk. If she feels that she would not be at risk, then great, set up some cams. But every single word typed about these men in her life scream abuser and other words that I cannot type her. If a person (man or woman) has a temper problem to the degree that the people she lives with seem to have, then the discovery of a hidden camera could lead to far worse things then her dog being smacked. 

I'm not there. I don't know the people involved. I'm just saying that putting up a cam and confronting the dude with video of him smacking the dog _may_ not be a safe option. 

Personally, I think she needs to leave. Pack up her stuff, pack up the dog and drive away. But staying or going, be careful and be cautious is my message.


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## TheOtherCorgi (Sep 18, 2013)

OP- you can choose a different ending to this story. 

Does your family know about all this? 

If my daughter or son were in this kind of circumstance, I'd move them out immediately and back home where they belong until they could get their life together. 

THEN, we'd have a serious talk about how important it is to take charge of your own life.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I honestly don't know why you don't move out, Sarah. You say you don't know anyone in the area where you are ... If I were you I would save up and move back with your family ... Are you are on good terms with them, can you ask them to come and get you? Or do you know someone who can help you get home if you don't have the means to live on your own?


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

There are a few reasons I don't really want to leave, even though my mom would have me on the next flight out to Seattle if I asked her to. 

- I love my boyfriend, and he wouldn't go with me. All of his family is here and he is much closer to them emotionally then I am with 99% of my family in Washington. 

- If I did leave, my boyfriend and his cousin wouldn't be able to afford to live at our house anymore, and they don't have many options on places to go. I pay most of the bills and it just wouldn't sit right with me to leave them hanging like that. Maybe that's dumb but it's how I feel...

- Even if I just moved out and stayed in Kansas, I can't afford to live on my own either right now, even if my boyfriend came with me. Especially not with 2 dogs, and I can't bear to think of giving them up. Our roommate helps us out a lot with the bills. Not that his money is more important than Xena, that's not it at all! It's just that I don't know for sure anything is going on and I have to keep that in mind that maybe he's not hurting her and there is some other reason why she is acting that way (what that would be, I don't know) and I could possibly shoot myself in the foot over something that's not happening. 

I was thinking maybe I could just set my laptop up and have my webcam recording for awhile when I'm sleeping or gone until I either catch something or feel confident nothing is going on. He wouldn't get on my laptop for anything he would use the PC. If I do catch something I'm not sure what to do after that. I don't think I would show it to him, he would get very angry and while I am not afraid of my boyfriend I am afraid of his cousin when he's really, really angry. I could show it to my boyfriend but I don't know if he would care much. All I know for sure is that I could at least keep Xena at my boyfriend's mom's house temporarily until I figure out exactly how to deal with it.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Geeze .... Yeah this is a toxic environment ... If someone we weed living with was suspected of harming our animals ... My BF would kick them out on their butt so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. If your BF doesn't understand that Xena (and ecko) mean that much to you then you should move back home at least.

In the end I can't tell you what to do ... But I fear that you look back after something horrible happens (hypothetical of course) you will blame yourself for ignoring the warning signs, and I don't want you to go through that ... I have been through that kind of thing and it's a terrible feeling.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Sarah. If you pay most of the bills. Heck yah I would set up the camera and point out to them that it is unacceptable to treat your dog this way.... Hint at consequences if they dont CUT IT OUT.... that should affect the roommates' behavior at least. 
And honestly, we have had roommates (diff ones) for 18 years, its aint that hard to find a new one, and tell them that....
Advertize for Dog lovers only...


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## TheOtherCorgi (Sep 18, 2013)

So...

you're ok with being a doormat in this case. And that's fine. I don't have a problem with that if that's something that you knowingly choose. I can't say I understand that mentality because that's not the way I would handle things, but your life is your life. 

What I do have a problem with is that your dog doesn't get to make that choice and she is the one who has to suffer the consequences to your chosen actions. 

This will probably be my last post on Xena's behalf, because I feel that this is a train wreck that's going to end very badly, and I don't know if I'll have enough will power elsewise to hold back from saying, "I told you so," when all comes to its inevitable conclusion. 

With that being said, I encourage you to take a long look at the choices you are making and pause to consider whether you are willing to accept the consequences should things keep on tumbling downhill as they are. 

I would make a large wager that when you are my age and have kids of your own that you will look back at this period in your life and say, "What was I thinking? I would never let someone treat me that way, now!"


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I agree, I want to start with a disclaimer that this post might be a bit cynical and cut and dry and maybe a bit harsh ... But I am going to come out and tell it like it is, and then I will be done. I feel compelled to at least attempt to get through to you about this, as someone who didn't see the warning signs and ended up paying the price of their dogs life.

I used to work for this really rich guy and had a good job with good pay. The problem is there was another person there who didn't like us. I should have seen the warning signs (they had a pen they stayed in during the day while I was home ... It was in full view of my windows and they stayed in the locked house when I was away) but when I would come back from walks I would find things like nails and other debris in their pen ... Like someone threw them in there. I told BF about it but he didn't want to leave the guy we worked for because the pay and the job was so good. Well, not too long after, the in thinkable happened. I won't go into it here, but you can read about it in this thread: http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/107684-izze-had-accident.html.

I am so adamant about this because I do not want you or anyone else to go through what I want through (and am still going through every time I think of her or see a picture of her or touch the urn where her ashes are kept). I know you love Xena and Ecko, and I wouldn't want you to have something Happen to them, which I am very sure your BF's cousin is very capable of doing. He sounds a lot like the person who hurt Izze, who also had a horrible temper and was very rough and corporal with animals. I know this type of person and I know you don't want to hear this but eventually he will do something to her, if he gets mad at you ... Or her. And if your BF won't stand up for you and what is important to you then you need to be strong and evaluate your relationship with him as well.

When Izze passed away, my BF and I almost called it quits because I kept telling him that we should leave, that I had this horrible feeling something would happen and I kept telling him we should leave and he didn't listen. We took a break for a while because I had to get over that fact that if we had left when I said we should ... She would still be alive . We left a previous job for this current one too because he wasn't happy at that job and wanted to find another one ... So it had been his choice to go there and since I was "take it or leave it" about the job we were at so I went with the Better paying job. 

Sorry that as so long. I just feel compelled to try and make you understand somehow.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

You pay most of the bills, but you've stated before that your boyfriend worries and complains how you spend your money (all while he wants money for video games, and has been in a bad mood before because of video games)????

I know you are young, and you love him, but I do hope that one day you can wake up and realize that this relationship is not going to lead to anything positive.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

You know, I'm pretty young too and living with my BF. We got Cosmo together in September, and lately our relationship has been kind of strained (its gotten a lot better in the last two weeks as we are talking to make it through tough times as both of us are bipolar, so its a communication thing), but you know what? The last thing I need to worry about is Cosmo. Both of us love him dearly, and I know he wouldn't hurt him. OR me for that matter. You need to see if your boyfriend will sit down and TALK to you about things. Tell him he needs to LISTEN to you. From previous threads I know you guys have had your differences and such, but you need to tell him what YOUR needs are and what your PRIORITIES are. My BF and I (I am only 19 btw so I'm still young but meh), both know what our needs and goals are in life. He supports mine 100% and I support his 100%. And on top of it, I know he cares about Cosmo with all of his heart. Even if our relationship isn't in the best shape we both make sure Cosmo is happy as can be, and we both love him with all of our hearts.


You need to tell your BF that Xena is an important part of your life, and he needs to realize you guys are a package. You gotta stand up for yourself, or your life dreams and needs aren't going to be met. Your bf needs to stand by your side and support you. Mine knows my goals are to go back to college and get my life together, and lately he's been helping me to organize all of my transcript information and such. I know his goal is to get a job again and get back up on to his feet. I've been supporting him and keeping a look out for jobs. We both have bipolar disorders, and we both know our moods can switch on and off, but no matter how hard it gets and even lately when we've been arguing more then we should be, at the end of the day we both know we are there for each other. I can trust him and he can trust me.


We are living with his mother atm, and I know that its different then your BF's cousin, but I know that SHE respects Cosmo and won't ever hurt him. You need to either be able to trust your cousin's roommate, or get yourself and your dog out of there. You may not be in a relationship with him, but you live in the same house. He needs to learn to respect you and your dog as well.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

TheOtherCorgi said:


> So...
> 
> you're ok with being a doormat in this case. And that's fine. I don't have a problem with that if that's something that you knowingly choose. I can't say I understand that mentality because that's not the way I would handle things, but your life is your life.
> 
> ...


^ This. And I'm also going to add a 'quote' from the movie _Feast Of Love_, starring Morgan Freeman ...

"Everything we need to know is going on right in front of our eyes. Yeah we have our illusions about people, our hopes, and they can blind us. But the end is always right there in the beginning."


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Sarah~ said:


> - Even if I just moved out and stayed in Kansas, I can't afford to live on my own either right now, even if my boyfriend came with me. Especially not with 2 dogs, and I can't bear to think of giving them up. Our roommate helps us out a lot with the bills. Not that his money is more important than Xena, that's not it at all! It's just that I don't know for sure anything is going on and I have to keep that in mind that maybe he's not hurting her and there is some other reason why she is acting that way (what that would be, I don't know) and I could possibly shoot myself in the foot over something that's not happening.


You can't bear to think of giving them up? You realize if this happens again she's going to be put to sleep, right? 

I'm sorry, but you are being a terrible advocate for this breed. >.<


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Oh, how blinding "love" is. 

You and your dog are in danger. Love will not save you or your dog, only action will. I've heard stories like this a million times. Things will not get better. Get out while you can. 

That's all I have to say about that.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Look, whether you like it or not, from what you have posted on this forum, you are in what most would call an *abusive* relationship. I understand, objectively, that most abusive relationships are like a frog in boiling water-the heat just turns up gradually, and the frog is boiled alive. And that you have a lot emotionally invested into this ...person (I wouldn't classify someone like that as _man_) and that you don't like being "mean".

Well, sometimes you have to pick and choose. It isn't selfish to take care of yourself and your animals. I would say it is ethical. You are responsible for these animals, no different than how a mother/father is responsible for their children/those in their care.

I know we can't change your mind for you. But it pisses me off. I bet it pisses other members off. Best case scenario? You are genuinely in this situation and will make steps to getting yourselves and your animals in a better place, somehow. Move out? Get relationship counseling? I can't say what that is for you. Worst case? You are lying to get a rise out of people, or doing this as a form of attention getting.

I like to extend the benefit of the doubt, and that you aren't just faking this. And I will. But I'm upset that you have admitted on this forum that if you told your mother (who was also in an abusive relationship, I believe) about your situation she would take you home. And that if you had a friend in a similar situation, you would worry. You have literally admitted that there could be something wrong. You see the pieces, and still can't see that you need to help yourself? I'm very sad for you, and your dogs. But mainly you. Because you are choosing to do this to yourself.

Take the damn resources already. You have the tools to get yourself out of this situation. You have a member on this forum IN REAL LIFE that will reach out to you. This has extended beyond just "strangers on the internet". I honestly worry about you. Either way, (faking for attention, or someone who lives with animal/people abusers) you are in a very bad place Sarah.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

This ^^ great post, crimson


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

If any person ever dared to so much as threaten my animals, to raise their voice or in any other way do or even HINT at something harmful toward them, we would not be in a relationship. Simple as that.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Agreed but it's the cousin that is threatening the dog not the BF ... But the bf is no better because he's not supporting her


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

He never reported Xena to anyone after she bit him so I don't think if she ever bit again she would be put to sleep. Not that I ever want her to bite anyone ever again, I just wanted to say that. He is always on me to get rid of her anyway, I usually just laugh it off like it's a joke. I wish I'd have been paying closer attention, if I saw him reaching for her and her growling I would have never let him reach for her a second time. 

They know I will never get rid of Xena. They hate it, and try to convince me to do it constantly but I could never. My boyfriend has not tried to convince me so much lately and has just started pretending like Xena doesn't exist I wish his cousin would do it too. I do say something and run to her first if I see either of them getting mad at something she's doing. I'd told them over and over she's just a dog and doesn't understand what they're doing but they don't think I know what I'm talking about and she just needs to be spanked harder if she's not listening. That's when I tell them she is so tolerant to pain they are really going to hurt her and themselves trying to teach her anything and all you have to do is show her a bit of food, anything, even her own kibble and she will do whatever you want.

I can't just throw him out, when we had to make our last roommate move out, my boyfriend's other cousin, the police actually came to our house and told all of us that if they have lived there more than six weeks or something like that I have to go to court to have them evicted. And he would make my life miserable until I managed to get it done. He's also in a situation where he can't just move out and go wherever he wants to even if he had the money. I can't move out on my own, I don't have anywhere near that kind of money, even if I did I wouldn't be able to afford Xena's seizure medicine or vet care that they both need. And if I go back to my mom's I can't take both dogs. I think about leaving or kicking him out and the only endings I see are bad. Maybe I'm over thinking it I don't know. When I sit here and type it out it feels like a bunch of excuses but they are all things I'm afraid of. And that's only the times I feel like leaving most of the time I don't want to because of my boyfriend. We keep talking about how at some point his cousin will move out with his girlfriend but it doesn't feel like it will happen anytime soon. I hate that I have to explain myself like this it makes me feel like an idiot, maybe I am a doormat but I just can't kick him out or leave. It all sounds so easy when you guys say it.

I don't know about the cameras now. More like I just don't know if I ever want her alone with him again. I'm just going to put a lock on her cage when he is home and I'm not there so at least I know she's safe. I appreciate everyone being concerned for her, and me and believe me I don't want anyone riled up I didn't want the thread to end up this way. Nobody has to answer anymore if they don't want to, I understand. Sorry for all the rambling I just feel like everyone thinks that I'm not taking any help on purpose or that I like what's going on. I don't. But I don't think leaving my boyfriend will help I just want his cousin to leave on good terms so nothing else happens. I know people feel I'm in an abusive relationship, I hate that people think that but I know it's my own fault they think that. I try to explain and it makes everything worse. I'm just going to leave it alone now I don't want everyone to be all ticked off at me. Thank you everyone again for helping Xena and me.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Sarah~ said:


> He never reported Xena to anyone after she bit him so I don't think if she ever bit again she would be put to sleep. Not that I ever want her to bite anyone ever again, I just wanted to say that. He is always on me to get rid of her anyway, I usually just laugh it off like it's a joke. I wish I'd have been paying closer attention, if I saw him reaching for her and her growling I would have never let him reach for her a second time.


Well, no matter the circumstance you still have a budding problem here. So, your roommate backed off when Xena bit right? Well, that is partially good (I'd hate to know what the roommate would have done rather than back off), but on the other hand, Xena learned that biting got her what she wanted...which was to make the roommate back off. You could say that this won't extend to other things, she won't generalize, and she may not, but it is FAR more likely that she will generalize something instinctive like a bite to other scenarios than something taught like a sit. Although the bite wasn't reported, and maybe the second one won't be, but eventually one might be, and if Xena learns this is how to deal with things, there could be more. 

I generally try to stay out of the threads that get overly personal, but here it goes. You don't need to train or manage your dog (yet!), but you need to train or manage your roommates (this includes your boyfriend). Find a "behaviorist" (counsellor) if you have to. This is a toxic environment to both you and your dogs. You have some hard decisions you need to make, and I know you don't want to make them. 

I was in a pretty awful relationship at one time, and I had to make the decision. I didn't have dogs to care for, so I luckily didn't have that complication. I'm glad I did it though, it was tough, but I made it. I loved him to, but he didn't love me back the way I needed, I constantly made excuses for him and after I left him, my confidence level rose, I realized how not normal the situation was and how much better off I was afterwards. It wasn't that he was a bad man, it was just that he was bad for ME. 

If something significant doesn't happen I can see Xena being put in another situation where she feels the need to bite or lash out, and it won't help you any either. You are looking at your situation in a way that for you, it is normal. If you make some tough decisions and make some significant changes. They keep telling you to get rid of Xena, maybe some day they'll decide to do it for you. You can lock the cage all you want, but I'd bet the lock will be sturdier than the cage....all it will take is some wire cutters, and after that it could go a variety of ways....none good. 

Just think over things, and decide what you would regret more, all of the potential things that could happen if you stay, and all of the potential things that could happen if you go. You have two dogs to contend with....perhaps you would do better with one, that would most likely be Xena, because she would be harder to rehome (though starting to look for a potential home might not be a good idea...it will take time, and if you find the right home that might give you a ton of freedom), either way, I know it hurts to think about, but you really do need to think about it and change something. This is bad for your dogs and although I know all of us would go through hell for our dogs, sometimes you have to put yourself first. Also, it helps to consider that sometimes your dog will be better in another home....you can stick around and put up with the abuse, but your dog shouldn't....in which case you are putting your dog first. Up to you, but something has to change for you. I don't envy your situation, but I do very sincerely wish you luck making it through this. If you need to rant and rave, or bounce potential ideas and need a devil's advocate, feel free to PM me. I won't claim to be an authority, and I'm no counselor, but better than nothing if you need it.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

I hate even making this recommendation but...

Xena needs you. She cannot be rehomed. We know that, you know that. Your other dog just needs a safe environment and could possibly be rehomed. I am not going to pull any punches here.

Call your mother. Tell her what is happening and that you need help. Find a loving home for your other dog (I'm sorry, I know you love her but you can't take both) and take Xena back to your family. Get out. Get out now. You and Xena are in serious danger and I really don't want to read a thread where you came home to a dog beaten to death, poisoned or otherwise killed by your crazy, abusive bf and his cousin.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It's because all the things you try to "explain" about your boyfriend are abusive and NOT NORMAL in a healthy relationship. I know it's hard to see that while you're in it and love makes people blind but just keep that in mind. Him ignoring your dog--not normal. Better than actively abusing her but still very emotionally controlling. 

But anyway, mostly what I was going to say if that if she bites him badly enough that he needs medical care, it WILL be reported. No choice in that---all animal bites and gunshot injuries are automatically reported. Even if he says he doesn't want it reported. So don't get complacent, do everything you can to prevent future bites.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Willowy said:


> But anyway, mostly what I was going to say if that if she bites him badly enough that he needs medical care, it WILL be reported. No choice in that---all animal bites and gunshot injuries are automatically reported. Even if he says he doesn't want it reported. So don't get complacent, do everything you can to prevent future bites.


Exactly. And check out your local laws regarding this, PLEASE. In some cases around here, you can quarantine the dog in your home for 10 days. I think around here it depends on how pissed off the victim is (which in your case would be very) or how extensive the injury is - I'm not sure. Otherwise, they quarantine for 10 days at the county shelter, where they have to not act like they're going to kill the people handling them in order to be released - with fines of course. 

I know that my GSD wouldn't have been nice in that setting - I know most dogs wouldn't. So I prevented any chance of him ever biting anyone and worked with him SO MUCH. We had roommates, but he was crated in his own room and locked in there when I wasn't home to directly supervise. 

How intelligent is your boyfriend's cousin? I had a roommate about a year ago.. She was a single mother, 19, had just had her kid after living with me for about a month.. wasn't a good mother, did hardcore drugs while living there & I had a feeling it was going on. Had her watch the dogs one weekend before I realized what was happening and she didn't feed them or give them any water for three days. Puppy had a UTI as a result.  Let her son pee on/ruin a mattress I let her borrow because she didn't even have a bed, spilled god knows what on my expensive leather couch (stained) that is discontinued, so I can't even try to get it reupholstered without re-doing the whole thing, stole my food and denied it, kept her room disgusting, peed in my boyfriend's expensive whiskey glass, smoked and drank while breastfeeding... anyway.

She wasn't the brightest tool in the shed. I told her she had to get out (month to month lease that I had her sign) and had to sign a form saying she'd be out by Christmas eve at 5pm because I was leaving town and didn't trust her there with any of the dogs or my stuff... alone and having her boyfriend (also an abusive boyfriend - he had stabbed her before) over, even though I told her he wasn't welcomed in the house. So I just hand wrote a piece of paper saying she agreed to be out by such and such a time/date, I signed it, told her she had to sign it. Probably wasn't even close to the most legal thing in the world, but it was SOMETHING. 

My stuff was being ruined, my dogs were at risk of absolutely anything, she was stealing, and a terrible person. She had absolutely nowhere to go and didn't think I was really expecting her to leave, even after signing the paper. Too bad. I wasn't going to jail because she was doing drugs in my house - the police had come once already at this point. So I changed the locks at 4:30pm on Christmas Eve and watched her carry everything she had out of my house. Where she went I do not know. I felt terrible for the child and did tell the police about that, so hopefully CPS was involved at some point. 

Not a whole lot different than your situation - I'd see if he will sign something.


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## afa (Dec 10, 2013)

Shell said:


> My point wasn't just about legality though. It was basically "Will this dude beat the living daylights out of you and/or your dog if the webcams are discovered"?
> :


 An excellent question. 
I am really sorry you are in this situation. 
You don't seem to be able to stop him from hurting your dog, and each reported incident seems to be worse than the last. 
He may escalate through beating your dog and begin to beat you. A camera might not be needed. 
Hope you are able to move out soon,
Anne


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## TheOtherCorgi (Sep 18, 2013)

DJEtzel said:


> I had a roommate about a year ago.. She was a single mother, 19, had just had her kid after living with me for about a month.. wasn't a good mother, did hardcore drugs while living there & I had a feeling it was going on. Had her watch the dogs one weekend before I realized what was happening and she didn't feed them or give them any water for three days. Puppy had a UTI as a result.  Let her son pee on/ruin a mattress I let her borrow because she didn't even have a bed, spilled god knows what on my expensive leather couch (stained) that is discontinued, so I can't even try to get it reupholstered without re-doing the whole thing, stole my food and denied it, kept her room disgusting, peed in my boyfriend's expensive whiskey glass, smoked and drank while breastfeeding... anyway.
> 
> She wasn't the brightest tool in the shed. I told her she had to get out (month to month lease that I had her sign) and had to sign a form saying she'd be out by Christmas eve at 5pm because I was leaving town and didn't trust her there with any of the dogs or my stuff... alone and having her boyfriend (also an abusive boyfriend - he had stabbed her before) over, even though I told her he wasn't welcomed in the house. So I just hand wrote a piece of paper saying she agreed to be out by such and such a time/date, I signed it, told her she had to sign it. Probably wasn't even close to the most legal thing in the world, but it was SOMETHING.
> 
> ...


Reading that made me so incredibly sad. I love my little one so darn much, with his sweet round baby cheeks and adorable giggles that I just could not imagine having that mentality as a mother. 

Sorry to derail. 

We have a lady at work who has had to take custody of her grandson. She's probably sixty something. The little one is a new born and is going through withdrawls from cocaine and crack. 

I donated a car seat and some blankets and I'm going through our old bin of baby clothes at home to see what else I can find for her. 

Just can't imagine. 

Anyway. Sorry again to derail.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sorry to derail further but this is why I don't have kids, while I don't drink or do drugs I would be a terrible mother ... I know this about myself and therefore won't put a child though having to have me as a parent. I wish more people would take a better look at themselves before reproducing


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

It might be _simple_, but if it were _easy_ to get out of a toxic relationship/situation, no one would be stuck in them.

If you really want to leave, but feel like you can't do it emotionally, financially, or otherwise, see if there are some free counseling or women's services in your area. Many of them make accommodations for pets these days and can help you make a new start if that's what you want.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

sassafras said:


> It might be _simple_, but if it were _easy_ to get out of a toxic relationship/situation, no one would be stuck in them.
> 
> If you really want to leave, but feel like you can't do it emotionally, financially, or otherwise, see if there are some free counseling or women's services in your area. Many of them make accommodations for pets these days and can help you make a new start if that's what you want.


Key word being WANT.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

No she has a mother that is more then willing to help her if she would call and even offered to COME GET HER. I don't think that qualifies as "stuck". 

Sarah I don't mean totals about you behind your back but it makes me crazy because YOU DESERVE BETTER THEN THIS !!! I don't know how to make you understand


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

I probably came off as harsh in my post. I'm not trying to scare you off. I think it's good that you keep speaking about this to _someone_ though I remember there being concerns about your boyfriend finding this? But you have to understand that it's frustrating for us to just see you stay in a bad situation when you deserve better. Obviously it is TONS easier for me to just type the words "get out" than for you to do it, but I strongly encourage you to consider it. What if the worst does happen? What if your dog is severely injured or dead? What if that temper turns on _you_? I know these are all "what ifs" but they are not impossible to imagine with what you have told us. 

Greater Swiss and sassafras both made excellent points. Moving out in an instant isn't easy. But please start reaching out to some sort of resources. You can still better situation even if you choose to stay in that household (though I don't recommend it, obviously).

My previous post was pretty angry, though I don't take any points back. Please understand it comes from concern and frustration.


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## surlys_mom (Jul 5, 2013)

Sarah,

I just wanted to say that I hope you find the strength to make some changes in your life that are more in line with what you deserve. You are getting a lot of harsh comments and victim-blaming on here because people have a really hard time seeing things from your perspective if they themselves have not experienced oppression in a relationship. I wish you so much peace and strength at this time.

Andrea


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

sassafras said:


> It might be _simple_, but if it were _easy_ to get out of a toxic relationship/situation, no one would be stuck in them.
> 
> If you really want to leave, but feel like you can't do it emotionally, financially, or otherwise, see if there are some free counseling or women's services in your area. Many of them make accommodations for pets these days and can help you make a new start if that's what you want.


This. 

Plus, we are here to listen. What we are seeing... Isn't normal. I'm willing to reckon that your mom would make an exception (unless there was a dog limit law or BSL or something) to the dogs if you told her what was up. My parents took my demon dog and me in when we needed a place. And my dad despises dogs! Family is something you can almost always rely and fall back on. I do not recommend rehoming Eko (DA) or Xena (seizures). You can do this if you want. Break free, if you must. There are people willing to help. 

In the meantime, do not allow Xena to be alone with your roommate... Spanking can be a one way ticket to a bite with less tolerant dogs. Xena was _nice_ to him the first time. 

Anytime you want to PM me (or others probably), that's totally cool.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Agreed I also didn't mean to scare you off ... I have a very bad habit of being cynical. But I want you to know that I am just a PM away if you need to talk, as long as you don't mind a more then slightly opinionated friend  ... Lol


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I would never ever forgive myself if he hurt Xena very badly or worse. I read all these posts and had to go just hug her. I understand people are frustrated with me and concerned. I just want things to be better without having to leave, I want his cousin to be the one to leave. He isn't dumb, I don't think I could get him to sign anything... 

I think I remember seeing in our town that there is an in home quarantine for 10 days for a dog that bit someone. I think that would just be for a situation like this, not if she mauled someone or anything. Xena has never done anything even close to like this before even when we first for her and when people came into the room she would just shut down. He has never hit Eko but he used to rile him up by pretending to mess with me but he's never done it since Eko almost bit his arm for pushing me down onto the couch. He never said he was going to teach Eko a lesson or spanked him he just never did it again. I think he is afraid of Eko because of his breed and size. I know everyone will get upset over that I just wanted to point out that I do really think he is a bully that picks on people or animals that won't fight back. 

I agree I need to really think things over and decide what to do. Xena will be locked up while I go over all of my options so she is safe. I have a doctor I see for my bi-polar and anxiety disorders I tried to talk to her about it last month during our appointment but I just couldn't say it. She even asked me if things were ok because my blood pressure was really really high. I will have to look up if there is BSL in Seattle I'm not sure if my mom ever told me there was or not. 

That was a very sad story to read about that baby, I cried reading it I agree I don't understand how people can treat kids and animals so badly. I posted this picture in my other thread but how do you look at this face and want to hurt her?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm glad you are looking into your options, but before you leave I think you need to his your bf a chance to do right (if he will) by you: sit him down for a heart to heart about his cousin, I don't know if he was brought in with your agreement or not (I don't recall if you said anything about that of not) but explain your concerns not only with Xena but also ecko regarding this person. Tell him you don't feel comfortable with him there and you want him gone and explain why. 

The reason I say do it like this is because them he can't use "well you never gave me a chance!" Against you, if he picks his cousin over you, saying he won't kick him out. If gives you some sob story on why he can't then tell him " it's me or him" if he picks him then leave call your mom and leave.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Is it possible for you to write down your thoughts/concerns/feelings ahead of time on paper and just give it to your doctor? Would that make it easier?


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

CrimsonAccent said:


> Is it possible for you to write down your thoughts/concerns/feelings ahead of time on paper and just give it to your doctor? Would that make it easier?


I do that when I see my therapist or when I need to say something very important to someone. Sometimes, it's easier to write down our thoughts and feelings, read them, revise them, and then present them. That way, you get across _exactly_ what you mean.


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## afa (Dec 10, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> He has never hit Eko but he used to rile him up by pretending to mess with me but he's never done it since Eko almost bit his arm for pushing me down onto the couch. He never said he was going to teach Eko a lesson or spanked him he just never did it again. I think he is afraid of Eko because of his breed and size. I know everyone will get upset over that I just wanted to point out that I do really think he is a bully that picks on people or animals that won't fight back.


Oh Dear Sarah,
Can you fight back? You don't need to be physical. Just decide to not put up with it. Talk to your boyfriend. If he will not remove the guy, perhaps a long visit to your mother, with the dogs and your checkbook, will convince him that his cousin should go. 



Sarah~ said:


> I have a doctor I see for my bi-polar and anxiety disorders I tried to talk to her about it last month during our appointment but I just couldn't say it. She even asked me if things were ok because my blood pressure was really really high.


Can you write it down? Can you print out this thread and take it to her?



Sarah~ said:


> I posted this picture in my other thread but how do you look at this face and want to hurt her?


I cant, but he can.

Please be careful. Protect yourself and your dogs.
Anne


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I went to his mom's house with Xena last night. I don't really want to talk about it but Xena had to go to the vet over it.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I went to his mom's house with Xena last night. I don't really want to talk about it but Xena had to go to the vet over it.


I have been following this thread and have resisted responding until now. 

I don't think it's fair for you to involve us in this disheartening situation you've put yourself in and then throw out a comment like this. Whether you realize it or not, we have all become emotionally invested in Xena's well being and your above comment could be interpreted a million ways. Please let us know if Xena is alright.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm really sorry she is okay I didn't mean it like that. She will be fine I just took her to be sure.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sarah~ said:


> I'm really sorry she is okay I didn't mean it like that. She will be fine I just took her to be sure.


That is good. I was worried she went to the vet in the sense of a mandatory quarantine for biting again or she was seriously hurt. 


*"Family violence is not limited to those who walk on two legs!"
Pets in Crisis 24 Hour Crisis Line: (316) 267-SAFE*

(YMCA of Wichita domestic violence hotline)


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

She got punched really hard in the side I was just worried about her ribs. It was because she peed on the bed in her sleep, my boyfriend found it and he grabbed her to rub her nose in it and I told him don't hurt her and he let her go, walked away then came back and I was trying to keep him away from her and he punched her in the first place he could reach. I freaked out and said I told you not to hurt her and he said eff that dog I'm going to put her down. I was holding on to her and after I let her go his cousin came up behind her and spanked her really hard for no reason and laughed. I couldn't deal with it anymore and took her to his mom's house and spent the night there. I didn't really want to talk about it because I'm still very upset and I didn't want to piss everyone off.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> She got punched really hard in the side I was just worried about her ribs.


 You did the right thing by taking her to the vet. Good job getting her (and yourself) out of there.

I totally understand not wanting to talk about it. Especially whilst you are still upset.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

This makes me fume! Because of your selfishness, you're poor, sick dog is suffering. Get her out of this environment ASAP and for good. You obviously knew your bf was capable of this. I don't even have the words right now to say how angry this makes me. It's like women that know their husbands abuse the kids and they stay with them knowingly.


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## surlys_mom (Jul 5, 2013)

Oh Sarah.  This is one very bad situation. Did you tell the vet what happened? I am a social worker and I would be more than happy to help you locate some resources in your area if you are in any way open to such things. Please PM me.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

RabbleFox said:


> You did the right thing by taking her to the vet. Good job getting her (and yourself) out of there.
> 
> I totally understand not wanting to talk about it. Especially whilst you are still upset.


Good job? Really? She shouldn't have let it get this far to begin with!


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

d_ray said:


> This makes me fume! Because of your selfishness, you're poor, sick dog is suffering. Get her out of this environment ASAP and for good. You obviously knew your bf was capable of this. I don't even have the words right now to say how angry this makes me. It's like women that know their husbands abuse the kids and they stay with them knowingly.


This really doesn't help. :\ I get that you are angry but... there is a lot more going on in abusive relationships than you are thinking right now.

Yeah. _Good job._ I stand by what I said.


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## surlys_mom (Jul 5, 2013)

d_ray said:


> This makes me fume! Because of your selfishness, you're poor, sick dog is suffering. Get her out of this environment ASAP and for good. You obviously knew your bf was capable of this. I don't even have the words right now to say how angry this makes me. It's like women that know their husbands abuse the kids and they stay with them knowingly.


Sarah AND her dog are victims. The thing about abuse (physical, emotional or otherwise) is that it is designed to take away power - and it works. Sarah is not being selfish, she is an impossible situation. She needs support and opportunities for help, not blame.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

This is a dog forum not a therapy forum. I care about the dog's well being first and foremost and it seems to be taking a back seat to the OP's personal issues.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

d_ray said:


> Good job? Really? She shouldn't have let it get this far to begin with!


I agree for once.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Are you out for good? I'm worried about the dogs but more worried about you. It sounds like you're living with two people with really violent tempers and that's just not a safe environment for you or the dogs.

Have you talked to your mom? I would take up her offer ASAP to move back with her.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

surlys_mom said:


> Sarah AND her dog are victims. The thing about abuse (physical, emotional or otherwise) is that it is designed to take away power - and it works. Sarah is not being selfish, she is an impossible situation. She needs support and opportunities for help, not blame.


Yah well her dog doesn't have a voice and can't choose to leave. Sarah can.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

surlys_mom said:


> Sarah AND her dog are victims. The thing about abuse (physical, emotional or otherwise) is that it is designed to take away power - and it works. Sarah is not being selfish, she is an impossible situation. She needs support and opportunities for help, not blame.


THIS!! This is why abusers start with emotional abuse, and isolate their victims first. By the time the physical abuse starts, the victim believes they don't DESERVE anything better, and have nowhere to turn.

Sarah, getting yourself and Xena out of that house last night was an excellent first step. Now, PLEASE take the advice and resources being offered to you here and get out of there for good! It is not uncommon at all for abusers to start with animals, and if he is willing to hurt your beloved dog this badly, sooner or later, he WILL direct that violence towards you, if he hasn't already. For your safety and for your dogs', please get out of there and seek help.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

d_ray said:


> Good job? Really? She shouldn't have let it get this far to begin with!


Victim blaming? Not cool dude. 

Sarah--- you've taken the first step in protecting yourself and Xena. Please, seek the help of domestic violence professionals. I posted the 24 hour hotline for DV help in what I seem to recall is your area. You need to make sure you are safe and the act of leaving, as important as it is, can be a precarious moment also.



d_ray said:


> Yah well her dog doesn't have a voice and can't choose to leave. Sarah can.


"Current statistics indicate that 2/3 of women refuse to leave, or delay leaving, a home where they are being abused because of the pet that they will have to leave behind. These pets are an important source of stability and comfort for victims of domestic violence" (from a domestic violence crisis resource).


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Kuma'sMom said:


> THIS!! This is why abusers start with emotional abuse, and isolate their victims first. By the time the physical abuse starts, the victim believes they don't DESERVE anything better, and have nowhere to turn.
> 
> Sarah, getting yourself and Xena out of that house last night was an excellent first step. Now, PLEASE take the advice and resources being offered to you here and get out of there for good! It is not uncommon at all for abusers to start with animals, and if he is willing to hurt your beloved dog this badly, sooner or later, he WILL direct that violence towards you, if he hasn't already. For your safety and for your dogs', please get out of there and seek help.


I have stayed out of these threads....but Kuma's mom took the words right out of my thought bubble. 

Sarah...how much longer do you think it's going to be before this loser or his loser cousin punches you in the ribs?


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## surlys_mom (Jul 5, 2013)

d_ray said:


> Yah well her dog doesn't have a voice and can't choose to leave. Sarah can.


If Sarah could just up and leave, don't you think she would have done that by now? 

And yes, this is a dog forum. But I am not going to let Sarah come on here and see herself being blamed for being victimized and not stand up for her.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Shell said:


> Victim blaming? Not cool dude.


Did I miss something here? I don't remember reading anything about Sarah being abused? All I've read about is the poor dogs being abused.....


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Many Humane Societies have programs where they take dogs from abusive situations and board them for a few weeks. The idea is to give their owners time to get safe and settled before bringing them back home. The dog is of course never put up for adoption, simply boarded. If you need somewhere safe to put Xena and/or Eko you should call around, there are facilities to help.

d_ray, you're not helping the situation here. Victims of violence are not to blame for their attacks and its a common abusive tactic to claim that they are. That and being told that they're worthless and will be alone is a big part of what keeps women stuck in these relationships. Maybe you haven't looked at it in this light but you're further berating an abuse victim. Its pretty heartless.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

surlys_mom said:


> If Sarah could just up and leave, don't you think she would have done that by now?
> 
> And yes, this is a dog forum. But I am not going to let Sarah come on here and see herself being blamed for being victimized and not stand up for her.


Where did she ever say she was a victime or afraid to leave? All I ever read was her saying she didn't want to leave because her bf wouldn't come with her. Apparently, I'm missing something here.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Shell said:


> Victim blaming? Not cool dude.
> 
> Sarah--- you've taken the first step in protecting yourself and Xena. Please, seek the help of domestic violence professionals. I posted the 24 hour hotline for DV help in what I seem to recall is your area. You need to make sure you are safe and the act of leaving, as important as it is, can be a precarious moment also.
> 
> ...


This is so true. Leaving CAN be a dangerous time for the victim, which is why it's so important to contact domestic violence professionals and get their help. They'll guide through what you need to do in order to safely leave. Please, do as Shell advises, Sarah.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

aiw said:


> d_ray, you're not helping the situation here. Victims of violence are not to blame for their attacks and its a common abusive tactic to claim that they are. That and being told that they're worthless and will be alone is a big part of what keeps women stuck in these relationships. Maybe you haven't looked at it in this light but you're further berating an abuse victim. Its pretty heartless.


Again, I must be missing something......


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

d_ray said:


> Did I miss something here? I don't remember reading anything about Sarah being abused? All I've read about is the poor dogs being abused.....


Emotional abuse and controlling relationships are abuse even if they don't leave bruises. A violent living situation where a person feels helpless to protect a pet is abuse.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

d_ray said:


> Did I miss something here? I don't remember reading anything about Sarah being abused? All I've read about is the poor dogs being abused.....


Reading all of the OP's threads might be a good idea before judging. If you had, you would know this. Try being a little less quick to judge next time.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

I did read all the thread, but I never sensed that Sarah was afraid to leave or afraid of her bf.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I just wanted to say that if someone hit my dog right after I SPECIFICALLY told them not to, I would consider that the same as hitting me.

Especially the spanking after and laughing about it? Yea, no. Do what you need to do and get out. It wont be easy but it needs to happen.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

d_ray said:


> I did read all the thread, but I never sensed that Sarah was afraid to leave or afraid of her bf.


In other threads she talked about things that sounded to almost all of us like very controlling behaviour by her bf and an emotionally abusive relationship.


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## surlys_mom (Jul 5, 2013)

d_ray said:


> Where did she ever say she was a victime or afraid to leave? All I ever read was her saying she didn't want to leave because her bf wouldn't come with her. Apparently, I'm missing something here.


You're missing a lot here. Too angry to spend any more time on this thread.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

d_ray said:


> I did read all the thread, but I never sensed that Sarah was afraid to leave or afraid of her bf.


I didn't say read all of THIS thread, I said read ALL of Sarah's threads. If you had done THAT, you would know the back story here. Again, please read more carefully, and make sure you have all the information before judging. As things stand right now, your harsh, judgmental comments are reflecting far more poorly on your character than on Sarah's.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Kuma'sMom said:


> This is so true. Leaving CAN be a dangerous time for the victim, which is why it's so important to contact domestic violence professionals and get their help. They'll guide through what you need to do in order to safely leave. Please, do as Shell advises, Sarah.


I'm gonna copy and past this, source listed below:
_
Domestic violence—also called intimate partner violence—can take many forms. It can affect your mind and emotions, or it can be physical or dangerous to your life. If you're not sure if you're being abused, ask yourself the following questions:

Does your partner:

Hit, shove, slap, kick, punch, or choke you?
Threaten to hurt or kill you?
Call you names or tell you that you are crazy?
Criticize things you do or say, or criticize how you look?
Hurt your pets or destroy things that are special to you?
Blame you for the abuse he or she commits?
Limit where you can go, what you can do, and who you can talk to?
Unexpectedly check up on you at your workplace, home, school, or elsewhere?
Force you to have sex, perform sexual acts you're not comfortable with, or sexually assault you?
Threaten to have you deported?
Apologize and tell you it will never happen again (even though it already has)?
Control all your money and finances?
Keep you away from family and friends?

If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you may be in an abusive relationship. There are people who can help you. You are not alone. Talk to someone you trust, such as a friend, a doctor, or a help center. Talking with someone can help you make the changes you need to stay safe.

The National Domestic Violence Hotline can help you find resources in your area. This nationwide database has detailed information on domestic violence shelters, other emergency shelters, legal support and assistance programs, and social service programs.
Contact information

Call 1-800-799-SAFE (1-800-799-7233).
Call 1-800-787-3224 (TTY).
Visit the website: www.ndvh.org._

Source of information above


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Kuma'sMom said:


> I didn't say read all of THIS thread, I said read ALL of Sarah's threads. If you had done THAT, you would know the back story here. Again, please read more carefully, and make sure you have all the information before judging. As things stand right now, your harsh, judgmental comments are reflecting far more poorly on your character than on Sarah's.


Really, so I'm not allowed to comment unless I've read every single thread the person has written. From THIS thread that I am commenting on, nowhere does the OP state being abused or afraid.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

d_ray said:


> Really, so I'm not allowed to comment unless I've read every single thread the person has written. From THIS thread that I am commenting on, nowhere does the OP state being abused or afraid.


If you're going to post judgmental comments on whether or not the OP is abused, YES, you do. One more time, before you judge, go back and READ. Your insistence on judging without availing yourself of pertinent information is a direct and very poor reflection on YOUR character, and further attacks on the OP will not be tolerated.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

d_ray said:


> This makes me fume! Because of your selfishness, you're poor, sick dog is suffering. Get her out of this environment ASAP and for good. You obviously knew your bf was capable of this. I don't even have the words right now to say how angry this makes me. It's like women that know their husbands abuse the kids and they stay with them knowingly.


She's trying to everything she can. She needs support right now. We need to look out for Sarah & Xena.

Even though in relationships such as Sarah's, there's still an emotional attachment. It's not as easy as you think to get out if these relationships.


I'm really sorry to hear what's going on Sarah.I am worried about you too. I'm worried that the two people, might snap, not on Xena, but you.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I didn't tell the vet... I told her I tripped over Xena and I accidentally kicked her when I did. I talked to her about Xena peeing in her sleep again and she thinks it is related to her seizures and is involuntary. Which makes me feel even worse. She got hurt for no reason at all. 

That list shell posted... I said yes to all but one. I can't be deported. It hurt to read that list and see everything that's wrong all at once. He called me and told me if I left him over a dog he would be really angry with me. His mom is trying to talk to me, I don't really want to, though.

I know it's my fault. It's just really hard even right now I still don't want to go, but I do. I wrote down all of the numbers and I'm looking to see if our humane society has that boarding thing someone mentioned.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

You can do it, and you have so many people here pulling for both you and Xena. 

I know we're just on the internet but think about if this many people were standing behind you, backing you up. Not so alone, are you?


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

This is such a terrible situation all around! I'm new to the forum and hadn't read any of Sarah's other threads, but can see so many red flags in this thread alone, even prior to today's post. It's so easy as an outsider to see the abuse and say "get out!" There is a lot of emotional manipulation at play and moving out with two dogs without the necessary finances is complicated. And by "complicated" I don't at all mean that I don't think that Sarah absolutely needs to get out of this situation.

Sarah, I don't know you, but I feel for you. It should have never come to that point that your dog is being punched for having an accident. Your boyfriend has blinded you to the reality of the toxicity that you are living in, but I hope that you can see that now and understand that you have to get out for both yourself and your dogs. I pray that this was a wakeup call. You are living inside a ticking time bomb. You said you were worried your boyfriend and cousin wouldn't have anywhere to go. That's on them! They deserve the consequences of their actions. 

Pick yourself up, you are worthy of respect from others as well as yourself. Now what is your plan to get out?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Sarah~ said:


> I didn't tell the vet... I told her I tripped over Xena and I accidentally kicked her when I did. I talked to her about Xena peeing in her sleep again and she thinks it is related to her seizures and is involuntary. Which makes me feel even worse. She got hurt for no reason at all.
> 
> That list shell posted... I said yes to all but one. I can't be deported. It hurt to read that list and see everything that's wrong all at once. He called me and told me if I left him over a dog he would be really angry with me. His mom is trying to talk to me, I don't really want to, though.
> 
> I know it's my fault. It's just really hard even right now I still don't want to go, but I do. I wrote down all of the numbers and I'm looking to see if our humane society has that boarding thing someone mentioned.


I know it's hard, Sarah, but you are doing the right thing, for you and Xena. PLEASE do call those numbers Shell listed. They will help you.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sarah I wish I was closer because I was I could at least take Xena until your concerns over BSL are cleared up  believe you me if you were anywhere in Texas I would be coming to get you and take you out of that hell hold you call a living environment. 

Use the link shell provided, call the hotline, explain that you have animals and explain what is happening. Regardless of what he tells you YOU DONT DESERVE THIS and neither does your dog.

But let me tell you if ANYONE raised a hand to any of my animals they would be staring down the barrel of my 20 gauge and I ain't lying. YOU need to stand up, if not for yourself then for your dogs I'm telling you one day you will come home to a missing, dead or injured dog (sorry to be so gruesome about it but it is true) trust me I have lived through losing a pet I this manner and I don't as thou to go through it too.


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## pinksand (Dec 11, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> He called me and told me if I left him over a dog he would be really angry with me. His mom is trying to talk to me, I don't really want to, though.


I can't tell you how much I feel is wrong with him saying this. You leaving him has to do purely with him and his seriously flawed character. He solidifies this by expressing to you how angry he will be with you. He is a very sick person Sarah, none of this is normal and you need to find the strength to say no to him. You aren't "leaving him over a dog," you are leaving him because he has failed to treat you with any form of respect and because he is YOUR abuser. Yes, this is about Xena as well, but it goes much much deeper.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

I've been lurking on this thread since it started..

I just want to add that anyone who would punch your dog after knowing how much she means to you, you begging him not to hurt her, and then allowed his cousin to hit the dog for no reason and laugh didn't do it primarily to hurt the dog. _He did to it hurt you, Sarah._ It's called *sadism* and is completely devoid of any love.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Boo hoo too bad ... Let him be pissed off over it! Saying that to me would be like saying that to a mother about their kids ... Look ... I will never have kids, so my dogs are the closest thing I will get to kids. So saying "I can't believe you are choosing a dog over me" is like "I can't believe you are leaving me for your kid" personally ... To ME it's the same thing. My dogs mean that much to me. 

@sarah are you on Facebook? If you are please look me up . I am also on the Dog forums Facebook page.

I don't mean to make you feel bad about yourself, while I haven't been in an abusive relationship before I have had friends who was in a similar situation. I know it's hard, while I am not a relationship expert. I do have good intuition ... And it's telling me that you need to get out NOW!  I worry for you and when you don't post for a while I worry something has happened to you.

I know this will seem like a punch in the gut, but you (by the law that is) can also be held responsible for animal cruelty if he hurts her and you could have prevented it by leaving and didn't ... Something else to also think about.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Entwine said:


> I've been lurking on this thread since it started..
> 
> I just want to add that anyone who would punch your dog after knowing how much she means to you, you begging him not to hurt her, and then allowed his cousin to hit the dog for no reason and laugh didn't do it primarily to hurt the dog. *He did to it hurt you, Sarah.* It's called *sadism* and is completely devoid of any love.


This this this.


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## surlys_mom (Jul 5, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I know it's my fault.


No, it's not. It's your boyfriend's fault.


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## Kayote (Oct 3, 2009)

I am usually a lurker here on the boards. However, something needs to be said here:

He hurt you, Sarah. Not physically, but emotionally and mentally with what he just did. You begged him to stay away, yet he found a way to bypass you and HURT YOUR CHILD. She might not be a human, but she is your baby. She cannot speak up for herself. She uses her body language and cues to show you what is wrong. 
She was letting you know all this time, and it finally took you to see it with your own eyes what a sadistic man has done to your dog. 

She cannot help herself when seizuring. The fact he is okay with harming an animal for a reason beyond the creature is insane.

He has, in turn, harmed you.

I know its hard to be single and go it alone, but no man is worth this. He hurt your baby, and he hurt you.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I know it's my fault.


It is NOT your fault.Please don't blame yourself.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

You need to get out and stay out/stay away from ex. If you can't do that, you owe it to your dogs to rehome them before going back. Otherwise I promise you, they will either end up tortured/dead or bite so they have to be put down. If the dogs are in the home, he WILL use them both as leverage to make you do things (he'll threaten to do something to them(or do it) if you don't do "x", or he will torture them in front of you to hurt you/cause you fear.
You can make decisions for yourself, but your dogs have no voice. If you love them, you will rehome them if you want to be with fiancée.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

She said her mom would come and get her if she called her ... So she has a way out.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sarah~ said:


> I didn't tell the vet... I told her I tripped over Xena and I accidentally kicked her when I did. I talked to her about Xena peeing in her sleep again and she thinks it is related to her seizures and is involuntary. Which makes me feel even worse. She got hurt for no reason at all.
> 
> That list shell posted... I said yes to all but one. I can't be deported. It hurt to read that list and see everything that's wrong all at once. He called me and told me if I left him over a dog he would be really angry with me. His mom is trying to talk to me, I don't really want to, though.
> 
> I know it's my fault. It's just really hard even right now I still don't want to go, but I do. I wrote down all of the numbers and I'm looking to see if our humane society has that boarding thing someone mentioned.


I'm sorry it hurts to read the list and have it all there in print, but that why it is written out like that. Love clouds people's views of another person. 

The YWCA number that I highlighted is a resource that provides anonymous foster homes for pets of domestic violence victims. Be strong, make a call for help and let the professional social workers guide your next steps. 

Xena may benefit from doggie diapers while indoors. She may be peeing from the seizures or she may have spay incontinence. I think there are reusable doggie diapers that you put a feminine pad into for absorbancy so that would be pretty affordable and simple to use.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm not sure how this escalated so much. This is a dog forum. We're here to talk about dogs. OP cannot be responsible for her dog, and it is sad. She doesn't have to live where she does. Her mom will fly her home on a whim - she's admitted this. 

I don't know (and neither does anyone else here!) if she's been abused or not, but that isn't my place to say or diagnose over the internet. It doesn't matter why she isn't keeping her dog safe, but the fact that she isn't and has the means to change it, but will not. Handling her with kid gloves will not fix or help. 

I've been in an abusive relationship, and the only thing that did help was recognizing that it WAS my fault for letting him walk all over me and try to control me and for staying as long as I did. Realizing that was all that gave me the power to get out. Kid gloves hurt more than anything. I wasn't a victim, I was a human being in charge of myself and letting someone treat me that way.

No one is attacking anyone. We are showing distaste for the lack of regard for the dog in this situation by it's owner. 

OP, I don't know where you're located, but if you're anywhere near Michigan, I'd be happy to take your dog so that she's safe, while you figure out other living arrangements.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

She lives in the same city as me and I've given her numerous resources and my offer to help if she so wishes.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

d_ray said:


> Really, so I'm not allowed to comment unless I've read every single thread the person has written. From THIS thread that I am commenting on, nowhere does the OP state being abused or afraid.


you don't just "state being abused or afraid" :\ it doesn't work that way. a lot of times you wouldn't even realize it's abuse until someone else points it out to you.


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## afa (Dec 10, 2013)

d_ray said:


> Again, I must be missing something......


 Yes, you certainly are.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

afa said:


> Yes, you certainly are.


Don't know if this will help people understand, or if it even applies to the op's situation for that matter. But I'm posting it anyway with the hope that it sheds some light.

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/signs-of-a-codependent-relationship


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say. 
The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?
Second thing I want to touch on which is an undeniable truth in the APBT world. A pit bull or pit bull type should not bite. There have been many dogs that have gone through much worse, and never bit a human being. I think this dog need some serious evaluation. Possible euthanasia.


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## BubbaMoose (May 14, 2013)

snarks said:


> I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say.
> The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?
> Second thing I want to touch on which is an undeniable truth in the APBT world. A pit bull or pit bull type should not bite. There have been many dogs that have gone through much worse, and never bit a human being. I think this dog need some serious evaluation. Possible euthanasia.


Lol. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

snarks said:


> I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say.
> The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?.


He kicked a dog hard enough she thought he might have broken a rib for having a seizure and involuntarily wetting the bed.?....
No warning bells there? 
that is just one example...


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

snarks said:


> I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say.
> The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?
> Second thing I want to touch on which is an undeniable truth in the APBT world. A pit bull or pit bull type should not bite. There have been many dogs that have gone through much worse, and never bit a human being. I think this dog need some serious evaluation. Possible euthanasia.


Any dog will bite when pushed too far. Heck, anything with teeth will bite when pushed too far.

From everything I've heard there is nothing wrong with her dog, certainly nothing to warrant being killed. You should probably read the whole thread before suggesting people's dogs should be killed. Good grief.

The roommate got a warning growl, and he repeated the action that made the dog uncomfortable anyway. That's asking to be bit in my book.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

snarks said:


> I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say.
> The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?
> Second thing I want to touch on which is an undeniable truth in the APBT world. A pit bull or pit bull type should not bite. There have been many dogs that have gone through much worse, and never bit a human being. I think this dog need some serious evaluation. Possible euthanasia.


Almost anything with teeth will bite if you hurt it. 

Undeniable truth.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say.
> The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?
> Second thing I want to touch on which is an undeniable truth in the APBT world. A pit bull or pit bull type should not bite. There have been many dogs that have gone through much worse, and never bit a human being. I think this dog need some serious evaluation. Possible euthanasia.


Given the history, it appears to have been a well deserved bite. I'd bit the guy too if I was a dog. Just because people _can_ beat the crap out of a pit and usually get away with it without a bite doesn't mean they should and ALL dogs have a breaking point. A dog that shows bite inhibition when biting under provocation? Not exactly time to panic about the dog. 

Punching a dog is NOT a training method of any sort. It is a human losing his temper and taking it out physically on an animal.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Shell said:


> Given the history, it appears to have been a well deserved bite. I'd bit the guy too if I was a dog. Just because people _can_ beat the crap out of a pit and usually get away with it without a bite doesn't mean they should and ALL dogs have a breaking point. A dog that shows bite inhibition when biting under provocation? Not exactly time to panic about the dog.
> 
> Punching a dog is NOT a training method of any sort. It is a human losing his temper and taking it out physically on an animal.


 I've been reading further... didn't know he kicked the dog.
Yea.... will not post without reading the entire thread. That dude is crazy


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

snarks said:


> I've been reading further... didn't know he kicked the dog.
> Yea.... will not post without reading the entire thread. That dude is crazy


My bad it was a punch that she thought might have injured the ribs...
Still I figure you must like dogs since you joined this Forum.... and yeah most of us have come to the conclusion that that dude is.... abusive....


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm sorry no dog of ANY breed should take being hit/kicked to the point of needing to go to the vet about it. The dog should not be punished for defending itself. I don't freaking care what 'pit bull people' say about dog bites. We shouldn't get free reign to do whatever we want to a dog and then kill it when it defends itself. That's just plain wrong.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I'm sorry no dog of ANY breed should take being hit/kicked to the point of needing to go to the vet about it. The dog should not be punished for defending itself. I don't freaking care what 'pit bull people' say about dog bites. We shouldn't get free reign to do whatever we want to a dog and then kill it when it defends itself. That's just plain wrong.


 It didn't bite at that time. It bit before this punching happened. 
It bit when the guy approached the dog. That's not good.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

snarks said:


> It didn't bite at that time. It bit before this punching happened.
> It bit when the guy approached the dog. That's not good.


What else has this guy done to the dog while no one is looking? If they're doing that in front of the owner, I'd bet good money they've done worse when alone. I would never condemn my dog for biting someone that has abused them. That's ridiculous.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> It didn't bite at that time. It bit before this punching happened.
> It bit when the guy approached the dog. That's not good.


If a human had been (likely) punched, kicked and harmed for a few months and one day the person doing the harming walked up and the victim yelled "get away" and the person continued to approach, what would you expect the victim to do? Take it? Or maybe grab some pepper spray and spray the abuser or taze the abuser (the equivalent of a non-damaging dog bite)?


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Shell said:


> If a human had been (likely) punched, kicked and harmed for a few months and one day the person doing the harming walked up and the victim yelled "get away" and the person continued to approach, what would you expect the victim to do? Take it? Or maybe grab some pepper spray and spray the abuser or taze the abuser (the equivalent of a non-damaging dog bite)?


 I suppose. If theoretically they did abuse for months. The abusive boyfriend and the cousin are two different people, yes?


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

snarks said:


> I suppose. If theoretically they did abuse for months. The abusive boyfriend and the cousin are two different people, yes?


Yes and Both of them are hurting the dog.
(I mean, what would you suggest, or do, if you had 2 roommates who routinely swat, "spank", and yell at your dog, despite you crating it and trying to keep it away from them, and YOU pay "most of the bills"?)...


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say.
> The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?
> Second thing I want to touch on which is an undeniable truth in the APBT world. A pit bull or pit bull type should not bite. There have been many dogs that have gone through much worse, and never bit a human being. I think this dog need some serious evaluation. Possible euthanasia.


My Chihuahua mix has bitten and drawn blood over nail clipping and vet visits but you wouldn't advocate euthanasia for a Chihuahua because she's not a "pit bull or pit bull type" right?

And animal abuse VERY often leads to human abuse. You can find that info anywhere. I've seen it with my own eyes.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

BernerMax said:


> Yes and Both of them are hurting the dog.


 I've just lurked a while and I've seen many a member jump to conclusions. Sometimes crazy conclusions. 
This one isn't too far reaching but bottom line, we weren't there.



Kayota said:


> My Chihuahua mix has bitten and drawn blood over nail clipping and vet visits but you wouldn't advocate euthanasia for a Chihuahua because she's not a "pit bull or pit bull type" right?
> 
> And animal abuse VERY often leads to human abuse. You can find that info anywhere. I've seen it with my own eyes.


 If it was my Chihuahua I would.
Also- chihuahuas don't have the capabilities that pit bulls do. Like comparing a mouse to a shark.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

No we weren't there so why on earth would we jump to the conclusion that the dog needs to be put to sleep?


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> No we weren't there so why on earth would we jump to the conclusion that the dog needs to be put to sleep?


 Touché. I also mentioned an evaluation prior to such a large decision.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> If it was my Chihuahua I would.
> Also- chihuahuas don't have the capabilities that pit bulls do. Like comparing a mouse to a shark.


Wow, I can't imagine just putting my dog to sleep because she's afraid of something due to a prior experience.

Also, here is a link to a small article (to the left) about a pomeranian killing a baby: http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...rtOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bx8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6750,2976244 If Roxie were left alone with a baby (would NEVER happen) and the baby grabbed her in a way she didn't like there's a good chance she would do some damage.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Wow, I can't imagine just putting my dog to sleep because she's afraid of something due to a prior experience.
> 
> Also, here is a link to a small article (to the left) about a pomeranian killing a baby: http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...rtOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bx8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6750,2976244 If Roxie were left alone with a baby (would NEVER happen) and the baby grabbed her in a way she didn't like there's a good chance she would do some damage.


 I can't imagine tolerating abuse from an animal but preaching that "abuse" from a person (grabbing a collar) is tolerable. Doesn't make logical sense.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> Touché. I also mentioned an evaluation prior to such a large decision.


You would have a dog put down because it bites when having its nails clipped? But that's such a simple (albeit time consuming) fix...

I have a Chihuahua who between 6 months-1.5 years old used to snark at anyone who moved her when she was sleeping on them. Through patient and consistent training, she now allows anyone to handle her in any way and gets up with a simple, "Okay, get up, please!" 

I would think that euthanizing a dog for biting out of fear/defense rather than conditioning and training is really giving up pretty fast on a life and (human-dog) relationship.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> If it was my Chihuahua I would.
> Also- chihuahuas don't have the capabilities that pit bulls do. Like comparing a mouse to a shark.


Or you could simply muzzle the Chi during vet visits because that is a specific fear aggression location and an easy fix.

An evaluation sounds like a good thing, BUT far too often, the evaluation is biased against pits. For example, I know of one shelter that does a food aggression test on intake (where many dogs are nearly starving and thus most likely to be food aggressive). If a dog that is NOT a pit type fails, the dog is still adoptable with the food issue being noted. If a pit type fails, the dog is deemed not adoptable. 

Any large dog can do the damage a pit type can do, that evaluation is bull (aside from the timing of the test being an issue).


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Entwine said:


> You would have a dog put down because it bites when having its nails clipped? But that's such a simple (albeit time consuming) fix...
> 
> I have a Chihuahua who between 6 months-1.5 years old to snark at anyone who moved her when she was sleeping on them. Through patient and consistent training, she now allows anyone to handle her in any way and gets up with a simple, "Okay, get up, please!"
> 
> I would think that euthanizing a dog for biting out of fear/defense rather than conditioning and training is really giving up pretty fast on a life and (human-dog) relationship.


I'm not saying everyone should do it. I'm saying I would either give it to someone who would be masochistic enough to own the little tyke or I would have it put down.



Shell said:


> Or you could simply muzzle the Chi during vet visits because that is a specific fear aggression location and an easy fix.
> 
> An evaluation sounds like a good thing, BUT far too often, the evaluation is biased against pits. For example, I know of one shelter that does a food aggression test on intake (where many dogs are nearly starving and thus most likely to be food aggressive). If a dog that is NOT a pit type fails, the dog is still adoptable with the food issue being noted. If a pit type fails, the dog is deemed not adoptable.
> 
> Any large dog can do the damage a pit type can do, that evaluation is bull (aside from the timing of the test being an issue).


I'm glad it's biased against pit bulls. Aggressive pit bulls should not exist.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> I'm not saying everyone should do it. I'm saying I would either give it to someone who would be masochistic enough to own the little tyke or I would have it put down.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad it's biased against pit bulls. Aggressive pit bulls should not exist.


Well, I'm glad you've had the honor of owning and training only dogs that never developed or came with snarking or biting problems. I have yet to come across that dog myself. My dog developed the habit after the people I lived with were overly harsh with her and didn't listen to my instruction on how to train a reliable "off".

That's like saying aggressive people shouldn't exist. I sincerely don't believe that it's possible to 100% guarantee that every single dog from every single breed will not be aggressive. I've seen and heard of bites from all breeds, even the more "even-tempered" ones.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> I'm not saying everyone should do it. I'm saying I would either give it to someone who would be masochistic enough to own the little tyke or I would have it put down.
> 
> *How hard is it to muzzle a dog at the vets or work on counter conditioning? That kind of aggression is often trainable but even if not, it is a tiny part of a dog's life and easily dealt with*
> 
> ...


Yeah, my thoughts in bold.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Entwine said:


> Well, I'm glad you've had the honor of owning and training only dogs that never developed or came with snarking or biting problems. I have yet to come across that dog myself. My dog developed the habit after the people I lived with were overly harsh with her and didn't listen to my instruction on how to train a reliable "off".
> 
> That's like saying aggressive people shouldn't exist. I sincerely don't believe that it's possible to 100% guarantee that every single dog from every single breed will not be aggressive. I've seen and heard of bites from all breeds, even the more "even-tempered" ones.


I'm just intolerant, that way I am surrounded by good dogs at all times. I don't feel the need to waste my short life on animals (or people) that bite.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> I'm just intolerant, that way I am surrounded by good dogs at all times. I don't feel the need to waste my short life on animals (or people) that bite.


Whereas I have found the joy that comes from giving a dog a second chance on life and getting to the root of the dog's problems and FIXING those fears and difficulties rather than killing the animal. 

Amazingly, I too am surrounded by good dogs.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> I can't imagine tolerating abuse from an animal but preaching that "abuse" from a person (grabbing a collar) is tolerable. Doesn't make logical sense.


Dogs don't "abuse" people. They don't have the capacity to "abuse" people.

Roxie is muzzled during nail trims and sedated during vet visits (she pulls the muzzle off there). She only sees the vet once a year so it's a small inconvenience and added cost. She's not abusing anyone, she's literally terrified because of prior vet experiences (the vet quicked all her nails with no sedation and she was bleeding everywhere) and we don't go often enough to do proper training.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Shell said:


> Whereas I have found the joy that comes from giving a dog a second chance on life and getting to the root of the dog's problems and FIXING those fears and difficulties rather than killing the animal.
> 
> Amazingly, I too am surrounded by good dogs.


 Funny how people will do that for dogs, and not people. It's easier when the animal requires no depth... when their basic needs are met, everything is all good. 
If you honestly believe that dogs care for anything more then food-- you are ignoring the very reason they evolved into dogs. Take your anthropomorphisms.... never mind, you are in the perfect place


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> I'm just intolerant, that way I am surrounded by good dogs at all times. I don't feel the need to waste my short life on animals (or people) that bite.


That's fine. I'm just different, then, I guess. I'm very tolerant. I think my dog is an excellent example of the progress one can make despite unfavorable odds and has impeccable behavior in most situations. I don't see putting effort into building a trusting relationship and overcoming training obstacles as a waste of time.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Dogs don't "abuse" people. They don't have the capacity to "abuse" people.


 I've been but by a dog and hit in the face. I disagree.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Shell said:


> Whereas I have found the joy that comes from giving a dog a second chance on life and getting to the root of the dog's problems and FIXING those fears and difficulties rather than killing the animal.
> 
> Amazingly, I too am surrounded by good dogs.


Excellent post. It's very rewarding to work through a dogs fear and bane him fit for adoption.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Entwine said:


> That's fine. I'm just different, then, I guess. I'm very tolerant. I think my dog is an excellent example of the progress one can make despite unfavorable odds and has impeccable behavior in most situations. I don't see putting effort into building a trusting relationship and overcoming training obstacles as a waste of time.


Put that effort into something that lives longer then 12-15 years. It will make you feel even better about yourself.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> Put that effort into something that lives longer then 12-15 years. It will make you feel even better about yourself.


Wow. That was unnecessarily personal and aggressive. 

It does make me feel good about myself to know that I put effort in with my dog. I also put that same effort into every personal relationship I have to the best of my ability. Is that a character flaw to you?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> Funny how people will do that for dogs, and not people. It's easier when the animal requires no depth... when their basic needs are met, everything is all good.
> If you honestly believe that dogs care for anything more then food-- you are ignoring the very reason they evolved into dogs. Take your anthropomorphisms.... never mind, you are in the perfect place


You don't know me. You don't know what I do for people or for dogs.

I don't need to attribute any quality to dogs that they don't already have from many years of evolution to be working and companion animals to people in order to find them worthwhile efforts, even those "flawed" by your reasoning.


----------



## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Truth about dogs. Love them, but it's true  enjoy
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VE9qYMHBKp0


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Entwine said:


> Wow. That was unnecessarily personal and aggressive.
> 
> It does make me feel good about myself to know that I put effort in with my dog. I also put that same effort into every personal relationship I have to the best of my ability. Is that a character flaw to you?


Not when it comes to people. Who can actually reciprocate an emotion.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> Put that effort into something that lives longer then 12-15 years. It will make you feel even better about yourself.


Are you even a dog person? My dog may only live that long but she's the only person who will never willfully hurt me emotionally or physically and who is always happy to see me, so... yeah.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Are you even a dog person?


Yep. I just do them the biggest favour they have ever received- let them go if they are that fearful or aggressive that they will attack a human being.
Happy to see you? That would imply that dogs feel happy... debatable. Most likely doing everything in its power to get fed.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I cannot believe I am sitting here listening to someone telling me I should kill my perfectly healthy and happy dog that I've had for over five years because she had to be muzzled for nail trims.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Kayota said:


> I cannot believe I am sitting here listening to someone telling me I should kill my perfectly healthy and happy dog that I've had for over five years because she had to be muzzled for nail trims.


I have never said anything of the sort. Maybe your reading comprehension needs work. 
I said that *I* wouldn't deal with it.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> Yep. I just do them the biggest favour they have ever received- let them go if they are that fearful or aggressive that they will attack a human being.
> Happy to see you? That would imply that dogs feel happy... debatable. Most likely doing everything in its power to get fed.


I think that if you were really interested in learning anything new, you'd already know the multiple errors in your last statement.

Your logic that I should only put effort into something if my effort will be reciprocated tells me I couldn't begin to explain to you why I even put the effort in in the first place.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Entwine said:


> I think that if you were really interested in learning anything new, you'd already know the multiple errors in your last statement.
> 
> Your logic that I should only put effort into something if my effort will be reciprocated tells me I couldn't begin to explain to you why I even put the effort in in the first place.


 Dogs do not have the brain capacity to feel the way that you may think they do. They feel pain, they feel instincts- fight/flight, they feel hunger. That's about it. 
If they have the capacity for love/happiness. Why is if a crazy leap to believe they feel hate/malevolence... therefore capable of abuse.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I see the pit bull mentality about dog bites all the time and I think it's moronic. Yes I understand that put bills have a lot more scrutiny and are powerful dogs. That should be taken into account. 

Somehow that's been warped to the thought you should put down any dog for biting/growling/snapping no matter what and that since humans are humans and dogs are dogs the human should be able to do whatever and the dog should just take it. 

Ridiculous. 

Course I come from herders and most of them WILL bite you if the situation warrants it.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I see the pit bull mentality about dog bites all the time and I think it's moronic. Yes I understand that put bills have a lot more scrutiny and are powerful dogs. That should be taken into account.
> 
> Somehow that's been warped to the thought you should put down any dog for biting/growling/snapping no matter what and that since humans are humans and dogs are dogs the human should be able to do whatever and the dog should just take it.
> 
> ...


 The issue is not the bite itself. It's the intention behind it. 
Pit bulls are top maulers for a reason, they are bred to go ALL THE WAY.
*EDIT* I have a pit bull fwiw


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> The issue is not the bite itself. It's the intention behind it.
> Pit bulls are top maulers for a reason, they are bred to go ALL THE WAY.


And this is the quote that proves you don't know much about pit bulls and bite statistics.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Shell said:


> And this is the quote that proves you don't know much about pit bulls and bite statistics.


Yes. Let's doctor it up and say- they MIGHT NOT be pit bulls- even if not, they were most likely a type. What's with the semantics?
Or how about- news stations enjoy the ratings of a pit bull story- sometimes true, depending on the station... sometimes, they really are pit bulls or pit bull types. 
Yes... let's (said in Stewiw Griffins voice).
Let's also say that pit bulls who were man biters were culled- you'd better believe that if the dog was a wicked fighter there would be no culling. 
Then I'll tell you that I have forgotten more about pit bulls then you will likely ever know.


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> Dogs do not have the brain capacity to feel the way that you may think they do. They feel pain, they feel instincts- fight/flight, they feel hunger. That's about it.
> If they have the capacity for love/happiness. Why is if a crazy leap to believe they feel hate/malevolence... therefore capable of abuse.


Did you really want to argue about it? I believe dogs do have the capacity to experience emotions. I have many different reasons for this, both anecdotal and scientific. I'm sure you have your reasons, too.I'm okay with agreeing to disagree. Your opinion isn't fact, neither is mine. 

I considered what you said, but I don't agree with it.All anyone can ask you to do is the same.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

I can completely understand feeling pain, REMEMBERING PAIN, and Biting....


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## MimiAzura (Jan 5, 2013)

ok. so way back to the start of the thread.. 

Sarah. 
If you actually care about your dogs, you will get them and yourself out of this situation. 
We have all been giving you the same advice for weeks and I am frankly sick of seeing the new things that go wrong for you. 
Its well and truly time to do something about it instead of just posting on the forum.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

MimiAzura said:


> ok. so way back to the start of the thread..
> 
> Sarah.
> If you actually care about your dogs, you will get them and yourself out of this situation.
> ...


If you had bothered to read the whole thread, you would see that she IS doing something about it, and has left the home.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Entwine said:


> Did you really want to argue about it? I believe dogs do have the capacity to experience emotions. I have many different reasons for this, both anecdotal and scientific. I'm sure you have your reasons, too.I'm okay with agreeing to disagree. Your opinion isn't fact, neither is mine.
> 
> I considered what you said, but I don't agree with it.All anyone can ask you to do is the same.


Great. It feels good to believe that they do... do what feels good Entwine.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

snarks said:


> They feel pain, they feel instincts- fight/flight, they feel hunger. That's about it.


Seriously ???

ohhh, Mother Parker ... where has I been ...


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

snarks said:


> Great. It feels good to believe that they do... do what feels good Entwine.


Does being extremely condescending to someone who's being perfectly fair with you make you feel good? You've done it a lot.

I'm pretty sure you do things that feel good, too. Or right, or proper, or whatever other word you want to use. o, I have to assume that your comment was meant as a snark to me. Which is, again, unnecessary and telling.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Entwine said:


> Does being extremely condescending to someone who's being perfectly fair with you make you feel good? You've done it a lot.


You're right. You're certainly not as extremist as most on this board. 
I'll attempt to keep my condescension to a minimum.



petpeeve said:


> Seriously ???
> 
> ohhh, Mother Parker ... where has I been ...


Yes. Seriously.
Do you think wolves evolved into dogs because they needed an emotional connection?


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

BernerMax said:


> I can completely understand feeling pain, REMEMBERING PAIN, and Biting....


 If that was the case. Maybe. Yet again, we weren't there.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> Yes. Let's doctor it up and say- they MIGHT NOT be pit bulls- even if not, they were most likely a type. What's with the semantics?
> Or how about- news stations enjoy the ratings of a pit bull story- sometimes true, depending on the station... sometimes, they really are pit bulls or pit bull types.
> Yes... let's (said in Stewiw Griffins voice).
> Let's also say that pit bulls who were man biters were culled- you'd better believe that if the dog was a wicked fighter there would be no culling.
> Then I'll tell you that I have forgotten more about pit bulls then you will likely ever know.


Considering that I've seen a SHELTIE hit the news as a pit bull bite, then yes, I think breed mis-identification is a thing.

Pit bull "types" now covers anything with short hair and a big head according to the news. Well, or any dog that the reporter hasn't even seen and a random dude on the street says was a pit.

The Centers for Disease Control, several state courts and appeals courts and a variety of other legit sources agree with me. Bite statistics based on breed are flawed. They are unreliable and should not be used to judge a breed or pass laws regarding a breed. Bite statistics do not sufficiently take into account circumstances. A "fatal dog attack" can be a dog that leaped onto an elderly person to say "HI" and caused them to fall and injure themselves and die a month later. Bite statistics do not sufficiently take into account the total number of any given breed or type (so ratios aren't considered properly).


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

My dog willingly lies down next to me and asks to be pet... Nothing at all to do with food. Not sure where you've been.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Shell said:


> Considering that I've seen a SHELTIE hit the news as a pit bull bite, then yes, I think breed mis-identification is a thing.


Have you seen this recent comprehensive study, Shell? Interesting stuff. As explained here:



> The Journal of the American Veterinary Association has released the most comprehensive study to date regarding fatal dog bites and the common factors that link them. The authors of the study found that there were some significant errors reported by the media in certain stories, so rather than relying on a potentially biased media source, their findings are based on investigative reports from interviews with animal control agencies, investigators, and homicide detectives.
> 
> Interestingly, the breeds of the dogs involved in fatal attacks could only be identified in 18% of the cases. Often times, the media's report of the dog's breed conflicted with animal control reports. Within that 18%, twenty different breeds were identified, which correlates with previous studies that have found that no single breed of dog is more likely to attack than another. The results of these studies make it clear that the solution to preventing future dog attacks is better management and husbandry practices, and not banning specific breeds.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Shell said:


> Considering that I've seen a SHELTIE hit the news as a pit bull bite, then yes, I think breed mis-identification is a thing.
> 
> Pit bull "types" now covers anything with short hair and a big head according to the news. Well, or any dog that the reporter hasn't even seen and a random dude on the street says was a pit.
> 
> The Centers for Disease Control, several state courts and appeals courts and a variety of other legit sources agree with me. Bite statistics based on breed are flawed. They are unreliable and should not be used to judge a breed or pass laws regarding a breed. Bite statistics do not sufficiently take into account circumstances. A "fatal dog attack" can be a dog that leaped onto an elderly person to say "HI" and caused them to fall and injure themselves and die a month later. Bite statistics do not sufficiently take into account the total number of any given breed or type (so ratios aren't considered properly).


Can you please show me that newscast? Or did that pop up in your pit bull lovers fb page..?
I agree , they should not be used to create new laws. Of course they are flawed. All statistics are. 
My point is, what does it matter? If you have signs of an unstable pit bull (or type) or any other particularly tenacious breed (Rottweiler, Mastiff [any type] etc) it should be culled. Even if only ONE pit bull showed you what they are capable of inflicting on a human being.
Also, feral/semi feral dog packs should be euthanized. That would minimize human maulings significantly. 
I'll even go as far as to say that any medium-large breed dog showing signs of instability should be culled. Of course I won't get any agreement here but that's AOK with me.

These dogs should be owned by PRECIOUS FEW.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> Have you seen this recent comprehensive study, Shell? Interesting stuff. As explained here:


 How were they identified? DNA? We all know that's a massive joke!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Why would you even have a dog if you thought all they were capable of is wanting to be fed? 

Also

http://www.mnn.com/family/pets/stories/dogs-have-capacity-for-emotion-study-finds


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

snarks said:


> How were they identified? DNA? We all know that's a massive joke!


Read it and your question will be answered.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> Why would you even have a dog if you thought all they were capable of is wanting to be fed?
> 
> Also
> 
> http://www.mnn.com/family/pets/stories/dogs-have-capacity-for-emotion-study-finds


 The answer to your question for me- that fuzzy feeling that someone as basic/uncomplicated as a dog NEEDS me. I used to love that feeling. Now I find it tedious. 
Which is what converted me into preferring cats over dogs.



Crantastic said:


> Read it and your question will be answered.


Reading takes work. If you're trying to prove a point, then prove it.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

snarks said:


> Can you please show me that newscast? Or did that pop up in your pit bull lovers fb page..?
> .......
> Even if only ONE pit bull showed you what they are capable of inflicting on a human being.
> .......
> ...


Legit news sources, local TV where the first reporters didn't do their due diligence and later reporters from another station did. 

I know what dogs, of various breeds, can do. I also know what humans can do to another human being and yet I still spend plenty of time around humans 

Biting as defense isn't instability. Biting out of nowhere is. 

But since you prefer cats over dogs, I guess you are safe from the scary scary pit bulls.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

snarks said:


> The answer to your question for me- that fuzzy feeling that someone as basic/uncomplicated as a dog NEEDS me. I used to love that feeling. Now I find it tedious.
> Which is what converted me into preferring cats over dogs.
> 
> 
> ...


Why are you on a dog forum?


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Shell said:


> Legit news sources, local TV where the first reporters didn't do their due diligence and later reporters from another station did.
> 
> I know what dogs, of various breeds, can do. I also know what humans can do to another human being and yet I still spend plenty of time around humans
> 
> ...


 Do you spend a lot of time around people that you know are unstable enough to possible kill you or at least attack you? No. Then I don't comprehend the comparison. 
The worst thing that one can do in the name of advocacy is blot out the negatives. Make them into this perfect little pittie wittie pibble. This is not what they are and you would learn that in a hot second if one latched onto your arm  
As I said- I own a pit bull.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

snarks said:


> I only read the first bit of the thread but I have a couple things to say.
> The only thing that is known about this roommate is that he uses harsh training methods. I don't know how he became and abuser (definition being in the eye of the beholder) or a psycho that is about to beat the OP if he find out she has nanny cams up. That's a very far reach..?
> Second thing I want to touch on which is an undeniable truth in the APBT world. A pit bull or pit bull type should not bite. There have been many dogs that have gone through much worse, and never bit a human being. I think this dog need some serious evaluation. Possible euthanasia.


How dare you tell me to put down my dog after what she just went through??? No, you were NOT there, YOU didn't have to shield her with your body and feel her shaking underneath you, YOU didn't have to cry waiting for the vet to tell you her ribs weren't broken. Your comments are making me sick. I'm not killing my dog.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> Why are you on a dog forum?


 Start from the beginning of my posts. That's why.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

snarks said:


> Reading takes work. If you're trying to prove a point, then prove it.


Oh, I did. Or rather, you just did it for me.  It's clear that you're more interested in attempting to antagonize a group of people on a dog forum than in actually learning anything or intelligently debating a subject.


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## snarks (Nov 18, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> How dare you tell me to put down my dog after what she just went through??? No, you were NOT there, YOU didn't have to shield her with your body and feel her shaking underneath you, YOU didn't have to cry waiting for the vet to tell you her ribs weren't broken. Your comments are making me sick. I'm not killing my dog.


Good for you. If she attacks a child, tell me how it felt to watch parents shield their child's body while it is shaking underneath them after attempting to shield him/her from a mentally unbalanced animal's wicked teeth.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

snarks said:


> Start from the beginning of my posts. That's why.


Reading takes work. If you're trying to prove a point, then prove it.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

snarks said:


> good for you. If she attacks a child, tell me how it felt to watch parents shield their child's body while it is shaking underneath them after attempting to shield their child from a mentally unbalanced animal's wicked teeth.


she is not mentally imbalanced.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

snarks said:


> Yep. I just do them the biggest favour they have ever received- let them go if they are that fearful or aggressive that they will attack a human being.
> Happy to see you? That would imply that dogs feel happy... debatable. Most likely doing everything in its power to get fed.


You doubt a dog can feel happiness....If it isn't too much work, Read This. It might not hurt to open your eyes and see other people with their dogs. My dogs are happy to see me, so are the dogs of many other people, but perhaps you just haven't experienced a dog being happy to see you. 

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that, and I should have (as was so intelligently suggested by others) ignored your posts....but....wow. I can't help it, my BS allergy is acting up and it leads me to have the occasional outburst. Oops.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Oh, Sarah. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It doesn't matter what anyone else has done or would do in your situation, every one of us has different strengths and weaknesses and life skills. And you can't change what has happened up until this point, but you can stay strong moving forwards. Take your mom up on the offer to stay with her if you can. Or contact a domestic abuse shelter if you can't. And if you feel your resolve waver (and I guarantee he will try to convince you that you are over-reacting, he'll change, etc etc) just go back and re-read this:



Sarah~ said:


> He called me and told me if I left him over a dog he would be really angry with me.


Not that he'll miss you, or he can't live without you, or he'd be sad if you left him... that he'd be _angry_ with you. With no understanding of the real issue (it wouldn't be over "a dog" but over his disregard for your feelings) or taking any responsibility for his role (eg punching your dog). 



> I know it's my fault.


You are responsible for the decisions you've made, but there is a difference between responsibility and fault/blame. You fell into a trap that many, many people fall into with an abusive, manipulative partner and you are doing what you need to do now. Abusers are master manipulators and very, very good at making you doubt your own thoughts and feelings about the situation. Read about "gaslighting" and see if it doesn't feel familiar.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Reminder folks, troll calling, insulting, etc, is NOT tolerated here! I've chosen to delete the offending posts and issue a general warning this time, but further infractions will result in temp bans.

Carry on


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

snarks said:


> Do you spend a lot of time around people that you know are unstable enough to possible kill you or at least attack you? No. Then I don't comprehend the comparison.


Sadly, I work Locked psychiatry, so Yeah yes I do... Its extremely stressful and I am fairly reactive....
(oh our first dog was a pitty.... and a DA one at that)....


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

snarks said:


> You're right. You're certainly not as extremist as most on this board.
> I'll attempt to keep my condescension to a minimum.
> 
> Yes. Seriously.
> Do you think wolves evolved into dogs because they needed an emotional connection?


You don't really believe dogs evolved from wolves...do you? They share a common ancestor, sure, but they did not evolve from wolves.

That said, dogs did evolve based on a need for food, but our co-evolution (that is right, we evolved together) resulted in them developing the ability to "socialize" with us to a certain extent. Their emotions are very limited and simplistic but it has been shown time and again that they do experience some emotions.



Sarah~ said:


> How dare you tell me to put down my dog after what she just went through??? No, you were NOT there, YOU didn't have to shield her with your body and feel her shaking underneath you, YOU didn't have to cry waiting for the vet to tell you her ribs weren't broken. Your comments are making me sick. I'm not killing my dog.


Sarah, please tell me you and Xena are out of there for good.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

sassafras said:


> Not that he'll miss you, or he can't live without you, or he'd be sad if you left him... that he'd be _angry_ with you. With no understanding of the real issue (it wouldn't be over "a dog" but over his disregard for your feelings) or taking any responsibility for his role (eg punching your dog).
> 
> You are responsible for the decisions you've made, but there is a difference between responsibility and fault/blame. You fell into a trap that many, many people fall into with an abusive, manipulative partner and you are doing what you need to do now. Abusers are master manipulators and very, very good at making you doubt your own thoughts and feelings about the situation. Read about "gaslighting" and see if it doesn't feel familiar.


Great points sassafras, and well put. I mentioned before, I've been in that trap, not quite so bad, but it was there. I'll say too, that I'm not sure that all of these kinds of manipulators and abusers really do it in a calculated way, it seems with some it is just the way they act. Deep down, maybe they aren't horrible people, but the way they act makes them bad for most around them, especially bad for some personality types. I really hope you do get out of this situation, and I'm sure you can make things better for yourself (and your dogs of course!) you're probably a lot stronger than you think 

btw, Good call Kuma's mom, and I am sorry for my comment....having a day I guess (I can't say it wasn't deserved, but yes, inappropriate).


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Sarah, please disregard all the rude comments (some people clearly don't know how to display empathy or common courtesy on the internet). I'm so sorry that you had and Xena had to go through this. I am happy you are out of that house though. I hope the silver lining here is that this was a "wake up call" (if that is really appropriate here?) to get you going. Or, catalyst I guess. I know this is a very difficult situation for you. If you ever have any doubts, just go back over this thread as a reminder. 

I agree with Greater Swiss, please take sassafras' comment to heart. And please keep us updated, if you are able, so we know you, Xena, and Eko are alright. 

I might not always know what to say or be the most sensitive, but my PM box is always open if you want to vent.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

snarks said:


> Good for you. If she attacks a child, tell me how it felt to watch parents shield their child's body while it is shaking underneath them after attempting to shield him/her from a mentally unbalanced animal's wicked teeth.


I highly doubt that Xena would attack a Child. Also Xena isn't "mentally unbalanced". She bit because she was getting abused, different from attacking a child. I don't even know why you had to bring in the thread.




Sarah~ said:


> How dare you tell me to put down my dog after what she just went through??? No, you were NOT there, YOU didn't have to shield her with your body and feel her shaking underneath you, YOU didn't have to cry waiting for the vet to tell you her ribs weren't broken. Your comments are making me sick. I'm not killing my dog.


Sarah-Just ignore the rude comments. They shouldn't act this way to you at all. I really hope for only the best for you & Xena.


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## Kudzu (Aug 15, 2013)

Okay, Sarah, you're outta that house and that's great. But you're in his mom's house so you won't be able to avoid him. Please call your mom and go home to her with Xena while you figure things out. His mom will always take his side. I remember from a previous thread that she was urging you to put Xena down right along with him. I think when you're clear of him and the rest of his family, and back in a safe environment, perspective will come very shortly thereafter.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I will say that when I came home from the track last Sunday to spend some time with my parents my dog almost jumped through my (it was open, don't worry  ) truck window to see me and gave me. Big ole doggy hug as soon as I got out. 
She has been under the care I my parents, they have been feeding her and caring for her but she isn't nearly as happy when they come home  ... But naw ... She doesn't love me xD.

Actually all the things Eddie griffin made fun of is why I love dogs lol ... But it was funny ... Thanks for posting it, I needed the laugh


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## Kudzu (Aug 15, 2013)

The whole 'dogs have no emotions, just a drive to eat' mindset is utterly ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that is either unfamiliar with dogs or just isn't worthy enough to have been loved by their own dog.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I agree ... Call your mom, go home ... Even if it's with the mentality of "getting some space" if thinking about it like that makes it easier to go through with it. 

I think you need some space from this to get some perspective ... Which you won't get at his moms ... At least not the way you need to IMO. I am glad you are taking baby steps to get out of there.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm sorry if my post broke the rules but I'm not sorry about what I said... that was a horrible thing to say about Xena. Everyone has said it already but if anyone is blameless in this it's her, she didn't even have any control over the accident on the bed that got her punched. She wagged her tail at my boyfriend as I was getting things together to leave. WAGGED HER TAIL. She laid down at the vet's office and put her head on my feet while I was crying, she was comforting ME. I bet if you put some other dogs in that situation they wouldn't be nearly as forgiving as her. She is everything a proper pit bull should be and she's not even purebred, she has been an angel as far as temperament from day one. She loves kids, adults, dogs, cats, everyone and everything she loves to go rub up on them. Everyone even calls her sweet Xena at the vet's office. Like I said in my first post I've never heard her growl, ever, I didn't even realize that it was her until I turned around. I know they are banned now and won't see it and I need to ignore it but if they thought that was fun then I think that's just sick. I could be overreacting but I have really had a horrible last two days and those posts just infuriated me...

My boss is being nice enough to let me and Xena stay in one of the pet rooms at the hotel I work for, I'm calling my mom in the morning to talk about what is going on and if she would let me take both dogs with me. I'm worried about Eko but my boyfriend has always been really nice to Eko and seems to actually care about him so I think he's okay right now.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

And also thank you to everyone that stood up for Xena and me I know nobody here thinks like that about her at all.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

You didn't break the rules at all, Sarah, and I'm very glad you're taking the necessary steps to get out of there. (((Hugs)))


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Hugs to you and Xena and Eko!

We're rooting for you!


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## eskye (Dec 17, 2013)

I'm so glad that Sarah is getting help. The kind of person who would outright punch a dog is the kind of person who will kill a dog. Not only is this getting you out of a situation where you could potentially be very hurt by people, but you will also be saving your dog from almost certain death. Xena knew before you did. She had every right to bite him, and no one should tell you any different. Dogs are allowed to protect themselves from a dangerous situation. So are you.

Is Eko your other dog, or is he your boyfriend's? I would get that dog out of there too. A person who is dangerous to other dogs may not stop short even on their own dog. If he can claim the dog as his personal property there may be legal issues, but you have a pretty clear case of domestic abuse, and I think you will be able to take Eko away.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Thank you everyone  Hugs to you all from Xena and Eko and me! You guys have helped me more than I can say. It's nice to have people on our side for once.

Eko is my dog, also, the paperwork from the breeder, the vet bills, any prescriptions he or Xena have had, etc... Everything to do with both dogs has been in my name. I don't think it will be that much of an issue after everyone calms down a little bit bit if it is I have proof.


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Thank you everyone  Hugs to you all from Xena and Eko and me! You guys have helped me more than I can say. It's nice to have people on our side for once.
> 
> Eko is my dog, also, the paperwork from the breeder, the vet bills, any prescriptions he or Xena have had, etc... Everything to do with both dogs has been in my name. I don't think it will be that much of an issue after everyone calms down a little bit bit if it is I have proof.


You need to get Eko out of there ASAP! I know you stated that you don't _think_ your boyfriend would hurt him, but it was not too long ago that you also stated that your boyfriend would _never hurt Xena_...but that wasn't true. Your boyfriend has shown his true colors and now he's fuming because you called him on it, but you're not there for him to take it out on and now Eko is there and it would be very EASY for Eko to be bearing the brunt of his anger even as we speak. Have you contacted any of the resources provided, specifically the ones who will do temporary placement in the case of DV? It is not safe to have Eko stay there one more moment because your boyfriend and his cousin are ANIMAL ABUSERS, at the very least, animal abusers should not have access to animals, period.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

snarks said:


> Truth about dogs. Love them, but it's true  enjoy
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VE9qYMHBKp0


I still can't get over the fact that someone would post THAT video, thinking it would bolster their case. 
Like, what the fajita were they thinking ?


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## surlys_mom (Jul 5, 2013)

So happy to hear you are leaving Sarah!!!!!!  This made my day. Good for you.


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

I want to add my support to everyone else's here. I'm so glad you're getting out of that situation. Things are going to be much better. Thank you for keeping us updated, I hope you continue to do so.


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## JeJo (Jul 29, 2013)

Prayers for continued strength, Sarah. ((((HUGS)))) Keep the momentum up on this new/freeing forward motion. We're proud of you.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> My boss is being nice enough to let me and Xena stay in one of the pet rooms at the hotel I work for, I'm calling my mom in the morning to talk about what is going on and if she would let me take both dogs with me. I'm worried about Eko but my boyfriend has always been really nice to Eko and seems to actually care about him so I think he's okay right now.


I just wanted to add, this is an AWESOME step, but please still contact those domestic violence professionals that were linked here. Not always, but it happens a lot, when an abuser realizes that his victim is actually leaving him for real, it CAN push him to even greater levels of violence, and it's so important to make sure that he absolutely can not reach you in anyway. I don't want to frighten you unnecessarily, Sarah, but my mom used to be a counselor in a shelter for abused women and children, and she saw this happen all too often. Cases where the abuser seriously injured, or even killed his victim once he realized she was leaving him for good. Continue on this path you've started, just make sure that you take all necessary steps to protect yourself as you do so. You can do this, and I know everyone here is very proud of you. What you are doing takes a lot of strength, but it is the BEST thing you can do! (((hugs)))


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Rooting for you Sarah. I'm really happy to see that you are taking steps to get out of this situation.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Sarah thats great you are outa there with Xena, and I know you must be feeling so overwhelmed right now...
Pls, though take steps to get Eko out of there. But be careful. Those guys will be angry about you leaving-- you paid most of the bills right?... SO this is a big inconvenience for them (LOL I have ZERO sympathy for them)... I would think they will be taking this out on Eko, bigtime.
Even if you could even call German Shepherd Rescue, may they could assist?...
Pls Sarah?....


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

I am so happy for you right now.It is great that your getting out of this situation,& taking the steps to do so.I'm so proud of you right now, you did the right thing. (((Hugs)))

Yes, please keep update.Feel free to PM anytime.


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## SnapV (May 14, 2013)

This is great Sarah, I'm really happy that you're getting out of this  You'll see it may be harder at first but you'll feel so relieved and free soon.
Hugs!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Kuma'sMom said:


> I don't want to frighten you unnecessarily, Sarah, but my mom used to be a counselor in a shelter for abused women and children, and she saw this happen all too often. Cases where the abuser seriously injured, or even killed his victim once he realized she was leaving him for good.


Yeah, I have a friend who worked in a law office handling family law cases, and she saw a lot of horrible bullying and violence from ex-husbands. Things can escalate when everything stops going exactly how these guys want it to.

I'm glad you're getting out of there, Sarah. Make sure your mom knows how dangerous it could be for Eko, and she should be okay with you taking both dogs back home for a while...


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## Kudzu (Aug 15, 2013)

Sarah, whatever you do, DON'T go pick up Eko by yourself. Take someone with you, and go when you know they aren't home. Get the dog and leave quickly, don't risk an altercation.

I'm so proud of you! The hardest part is over, it's going to get better every day from here 

You know, I think Xena came into your life to save you. She took a punch for you and showed you who your BF really is. Now you can pay her back by giving her the life you both deserve.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Kudzu said:


> Sarah, whatever you do, DON'T go pick up Eko by yourself. Take someone with you, and go when you know they aren't home. Get the dog and leave quickly, don't risk an altercation.
> 
> I'm so proud of you! The hardest part is over, it's going to get better every day from here
> 
> You know, I think Xena came into your life to save you. She took a punch for you and showed you who your BF really is. Now you can pay her back by giving her the life you both deserve.


I completely agree with everything. Take someone with you (and try to do it soon!), even if you are positive there is no risk of altercation, at least do it for the moral support! That final step is a hard one (perhaps even the hardest) and it will probably make it even more real to you, hang in there! You can do this!!!! So proud of you! It is SO hard, but you are doing great. Make sure you keep us updated on how things end up going, many of us are worried about you and cheering you on and want to know you, Xena and Eko are doing well!


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## Firestorm (Feb 21, 2010)

Sarah, I'm so sorry you went through all of that trouble. Poor Xena. I can only imagine what she felt. You did the right thing getting out of there with her, and with yourself too. You would have been next on the abuse list, that I'm certain of. And as implied by others, I definitely agree. Take someone with you to pick up Eko so you'll be safer.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I've been following this thread for a while now, but never commented.

Good for you, Sarah, for getting yourself and Xena out of the situation! Rooting for you.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

Sarah you have done the right thing for you and for Xena. 

I understand where the others are coming from and I agree that if you can get Eko out you should do so BUT only do so if you can do it without putting yourself in danger and DO NOT take Xena with you. 

Be safe, Sarah. I know this is hard but always remember you did this for Xena and for yourself. They showed their true colors and it would have only continued to escalate from there. Be brave, she needs you.


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## gsdhunter (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm so glad you are out! Try to see if a cop will come over for you to get the other pup, along with a friend.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

^this. I don't think most bullies are dumb enough to bother you if there is an officer involved. 

This may sound callous, but if it comes down to you or Eko, I would try to get yourself and Xena out first. I'm not advocating this as a first choice, but more of the worst "what if" scenario. (I think its better that two of you get out, rather than none of you getting out if coming back for Eko gives you cold feet/lose motivation). Definitely see if you can get in touch with some sort of rescue or domestic abuse services to take care of Eko if you are unable. 

I want to congratulate you on getting yourself out. I know it wasn't easy, but you are on your way to a better life Sarah.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes ask the local police if they can send an officer with you ... Explain your situation to them and I am sure they will help you.


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## afa (Dec 10, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Thank you everyone  Hugs to you all from Xena and Eko and me! You guys have helped me more than I can say. It's nice to have people on our side for once.


 You have a whole forum on your side. 
You go girl! 
Hope everything works out for good.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Yes I am going to pick Eko and some more of my things up today and I am going to have the police meet me there. My mom is setting things up for all three of us to go home. I'm worried about how Eko and her dog will get along that's the main issue because her dog is a bit DA and Eko is very DA so I think we are going to have to work out a crate and rotate kind of situation for them it's not the best idea I know but I just can't leave him behind. My mom understands and it's only until I get on my feet again. I was saying I am pretty sure Eko will be ok because he's not even half as tolerant as Xena he would seriously bite if he thought he was in danger. The guys know that so I figured they'd let him be. But either way he will be out today.

Thanks to everyone again I can't believe there were so many people keeping up with us it really, really helps.


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## SnapV (May 14, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes I am going to pick Eko and some more of my things up today and I am going to have the police meet me there. My mom is setting things up for all three of us to go home. I'm worried about how Eko and her dog will get along that's the main issue because her dog is a bit DA and Eko is very DA so I think we are going to have to work out a crate and rotate kind of situation for them it's not the best idea I know but I just can't leave him behind. My mom understands and it's only until I get on my feet again. I was saying I am pretty sure Eko will be ok because he's not even half as tolerant as Xena he would seriously bite if he thought he was in danger. The guys know that so I figured they'd let him be. But either way he will be out today.
> 
> Thanks to everyone again I can't believe there were so many people keeping up with us it really, really helps.


So so proud of you and happy for you. Reading this this morning put a smile on my face 
You can do it!


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## afa (Dec 10, 2013)

Please keep us posted. We may be electronic, but we care about you.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes I am going to pick Eko and some more of my things up today and I am going to have the police meet me there. My mom is setting things up for all three of us to go home. I'm worried about how Eko and her dog will get along that's the main issue because her dog is a bit DA and Eko is very DA so I think we are going to have to work out a crate and rotate kind of situation for them it's not the best idea I know but I just can't leave him behind. My mom understands and it's only until I get on my feet again. I was saying I am pretty sure Eko will be ok because he's not even half as tolerant as Xena he would seriously bite if he thought he was in danger. The guys know that so I figured they'd let him be. But either way he will be out today.
> 
> Thanks to everyone again I can't believe there were so many people keeping up with us it really, really helps.


This is GREAT news! You're doing the right thing, and I'm so glad you'll be having the police with you when you go to get Eko, that is exactly the right way to handle this! (((hugs)))


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## TheOtherCorgi (Sep 18, 2013)

I had a feeling your mom would step up to the plate. 

What a blessing for you, Sarah. You're free. No better present under then tree then that.


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## The Feather Duster (Apr 14, 2010)

I'm so happy to read this. Go get your Eko with protection in place and then get yourself and your two dogs to your mom's home where you will all be safe. Get a good night or three nights sleep and when you finally wake up feeling less overwhelmed and exhausted and even refreshed from the sleep, take a few deep breaths and cuddle your dogs for a while. Then, take some time to think about where you want to go from here.

I'm so glad you have left that toxic living situation. It was never going to end well and it is good that you realized that and removed yourself from it before it worsened to the point of you getting badly injured or worse, even killed.

I wish you the best of luck and really hope you have far happier days ahead of you.


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

All I can say is <<< *WHEW!!!* >>> 
I saw bad things happening (worse than him punching your dog!) if you had stayed. Please PLEASE be sure the police escort you back to your house to get Eko and your things. If they can't go, YOU don't go! Wait until they can be there. Eko is important, but your life is more-so. Hopefully he's just an immature bully who would not hurt or kill you, but there are WAY too many scenario's where someone ends up dead. 

Eko will be much better off in your mom's home than where he is now. Crate & rotate if you must. After what you have been through and are going though, that will be an easy challenge! 

Thank you for listening to us and saving yourself. You will be fine!!! (((((hugs!!!)))))


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Can't wait to see an update again ... Hope you get out back go your moms house safely


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

So proud of you, Sarah! It's hard for people to extract themselves from this type of situation, and a lot of them don't. I have a friend and an aunt who work with women who have come from abusive situations, and I've learned that it's very common for these women to not realize how bad the situation is until it's too late. Good for you for realizing it now, while you can still get out safely -- and it's great that you're having a police officer escort you while you pick up Eko and your things. Please keep us updated on how things go.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

So happy to hear this news!

Stay strong Sarah!


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Yippie yea for Sarah...she's going thru with her departure! I was so worried that she would not go through with it....and end up in really bad shape. God bless her mom for being a good mother ....what a great Christmas gift to have survived this traumatic situation!!!
We are all pulling for you and xena and eko!! Keep up the good work, your pups deserve it and so do you!! Sending hugs!


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## JeJo (Jul 29, 2013)

So, SO good! -Sarah, your strength and courage, along with the love and loyalty you hold for your dogs, is truly inspiring. Continue to take good care and know how much we all care. (((HUGS)))


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Can't wait to see an update again ... Hope you get out back go your moms house safely


Me too, this thread and the whole situation has stuck in my head and I want to know everyone is safe. Please update us and let us know you got Eko out ok! Hugs to you Xena and Eko!!!! Kudos to your mom for stepping up. You're about to start a new chapter in your life.....so hard, but so worth it!


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Just echoing everyone else's sentiments: So happy for you right now that you are getting out and will be able to take Eko as well. Please let us know how things go when you get a chance Sarah. I feel like this is a Christmas present for you, your dogs, and everyone following this thread!  Xena (and Eko) were clearly put into your life for a reason.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Eko is back at the hotel with me and Xena  I waited to call until I knew he would be at work and met the officer there and my roommate ended up not being there either so it went very smoothly. Eko seemed ok, no worse for the wear, happy to see me lol. It feels so sudden but my mom wants me home asap so we are leaving next week. I'm nervous, happy, sad, but I know it's a good thing. I think I'm just tired now and ready to be done with all of it.

I know you guys are right that Xena and Eko were given to me for a reason. I think Eko was here to help me get over what happened to my last dog and Xena was here to help me with this. That's one thing Cesar Milan says I can agree with lol that we get the dogs that we need.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

So glad to hear it went well for you!!
Hopefully you can get some rest and get away without further incidents, but keep your eyes wide open! 
Good luck to you and safe travels and a very Merry Christmas, Sarah!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks for the update, I'm so glad things are moving along!


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

You need to stay strong over the next few days. He is going to try to contact you. Don't answer his calls. Don't respond to texts. DO NOT tell him where you are. Drop off the radar. Keep your hotel door locked. If he should find out where you are and show up there DO NOT let him in. 

Be strong, Sarah. You can do this.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

ludosmum said:


> You need to stay strong over the next few days. He is going to try to contact you. Don't answer his calls. Don't respond to texts. DO NOT tell him where you are. Drop off the radar. Keep your hotel door locked. If he should find out where you are and show up there DO NOT let him in.
> 
> Be strong, Sarah. You can do this.


Excellent advice. Block his number if you have to.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

sassafras said:


> Excellent advice. Block his number if you have to.


I'll second that! I had a relapse with my ex.....made the second separation even harder (and nastier). Block the number, or make sure it goes straight to voicemail at very least. Stay Strong!! Good Luck! Happy and proud for you! Keep us all updated


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Eko is back at the hotel with me and Xena  I waited to call until I knew he would be at work and met the officer there and my roommate ended up not being there either so it went very smoothly. Eko seemed ok, no worse for the wear, happy to see me lol. It feels so sudden but my mom wants me home asap so we are leaving next week. I'm nervous, happy, sad, but I know it's a good thing. I think I'm just tired now and ready to be done with all of it.
> 
> I know you guys are right that Xena and Eko were given to me for a reason. I think Eko was here to help me get over what happened to my last dog and Xena was here to help me with this. That's one thing Cesar Milan says I can agree with lol that we get the dogs that we need.


You just made my Year Sarah!!!! So overjoyed that all 3 of you made it out safely. YOU GO GIRL! You Rock!!!!!!!!!!! SO proud of You!!!! Yeah!!!!


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## afa (Dec 10, 2013)

ludosmum said:


> You need to stay strong over the next few days. He is going to try to contact you. Don't answer his calls. Don't respond to texts. DO NOT tell him where you are. Drop off the radar. Keep your hotel door locked. If he should find out where you are and show up there DO NOT let him in.
> 
> Be strong, Sarah. You can do this.


 You can; you can. And Merry Christmas! Will you be home with your mom by then?


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Eko is back at the hotel with me and Xena  I waited to call until I knew he would be at work and met the officer there and my roommate ended up not being there either so it went very smoothly. Eko seemed ok, no worse for the wear, happy to see me lol. It feels so sudden but my mom wants me home asap so we are leaving next week. I'm nervous, happy, sad, but I know it's a good thing. I think I'm just tired now and ready to be done with all of it.
> 
> I know you guys are right that Xena and Eko were given to me for a reason. I think Eko was here to help me get over what happened to my last dog and Xena was here to help me with this. That's one thing Cesar Milan says I can agree with lol that we get the dogs that we need.



So glad to hear this! Still so proud of you. Your so strong for doing all you did for your dogs. (((Hugs))). 

Merry Christmas to you, Xena, & Eko.


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Sarah~ said:


> Eko is back at the hotel with me and Xena  I waited to call until I knew he would be at work and met the officer there and my roommate ended up not being there either so it went very smoothly. Eko seemed ok, no worse for the wear, happy to see me lol. It feels so sudden but my mom wants me home asap so we are leaving next week. I'm nervous, happy, sad, but I know it's a good thing. I think I'm just tired now and ready to be done with all of it.
> 
> I know you guys are right that Xena and Eko were given to me for a reason. I think Eko was here to help me get over what happened to my last dog and Xena was here to help me with this. That's one thing Cesar Milan says I can agree with lol that we get the dogs that we need.


I am SOOOOO happy you got Eko without any issues! Maybe our prayers for you helped! Just stay vigilant - I don't know if he knows where you are, but keep safe! 

And I feel exactly the same way about Bella. I was in a bad relationship, too. I didn't realize how bad until one day Bella grabbed the power bill from the coffee table and ran with it (she was a puppy at the time - just trying to play). Joe ran after her and grabbed her by the scruff and slammed her head into the floor 5 times before I could get there. I almost gave her back to the rescue because I was afraid for her. Then with help of friends & family I woke up and realized I should be afraid for BOTH of us! So I took my dog and left. It was soooo hard. But I think if it wasn't for Bella, I would still be in that abusive relationship. 

Sarah, I don't know you, but you deserve better and you'll do great! I am so glad you found us....I believe Xena sent you here


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

sassafras said:


> Excellent advice. Block his number if you have to.


This x 3 (I guess my agreement would make it 3 lol). Glad you are out of there STAY STRONG!!! HE IS going to make like the sweetest thing on earth ... Don't fall for it trust me it's a ploy


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

I sure hope that you can stay strong, Sarah and I hope you leave real soon!!!!


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Very proud of you. Ditto the poster who said that he WILL contact you, and try to plead, and say he'll change. He won't. Block his number. Stay strong.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

I only just read this thread now, but wow. I'm real glad you and your dogs are out of there. Agreeing with everyone else, avoid him at all costs, as he's going to to try like hell to contact you and change your mind, and it's usually at these times you're the most vulnerable.

I'm also kind of repulsed by how judgmental people are being towards her. It's easy to sit behind your computer and say "you and your dog are being abused, GTHO of that situation!" but the reality isn't always that easy, and very rarely is in abusive relationships. There's a lot of manipulation, play on emotions, in addition to a very messed up, often complicated life change and living situations you need to figure out. It's easy to see how people can second guess themselves. 

Stay strong, Sarah. You ARE doing the right thing.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

RCloud said:


> I only just read this thread now, but wow. I'm real glad you and your dogs are out of there. Agreeing with everyone else, avoid him at all costs, as he's going to to try like hell to contact you and change your mind, and it's usually at these times you're the most vulnerable.
> 
> I'm also kind of repulsed by how judgmental people are being towards her. It's easy to sit behind your computer and say "you and your dog are being abused, GTHO of that situation!" but the reality isn't always that easy, and very rarely is in abusive relationships. There's a lot of manipulation, play on emotions, in addition to a very messed up, often complicated life change and living situations you need to figure out. It's easy to see how people can second guess themselves.
> 
> Stay strong, Sarah. You ARE doing the right thing.


This. That is all


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

Any updates, Sarah?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Sarah, I am happy for you and your dogs. I am so glad the three of you are going to be safe now. 

Block his number, block the numbers of his friends and family if you have them. Either delete and block him and his friends from social networking sites or don't log onto them for a while. He will try to contact you. Don't give him the opportunity. He will only try to get you back and he will make promises he cannot and will not keep.

You're out now. Stay out.
Stay in strong contact with your mother, if you can start searching for jobs in the area where you're going. Start putting in applications and what not now so you can hit the ground with both feet and start running. 

Give your mom's dog the right in the house. Let him have everything first before Eko so they won't feel displaced. Take Eko for extra exercise and get him lots of fun toys to make up for having to be separated from your mother's dog.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

I hope Sarah is ok, she hasn't been here a couple of days....prayers!


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Sparkles123 said:


> I hope Sarah is ok, she hasn't been here a couple of days....prayers!


I'm thinking/hoping she is busy with getting life sorted and hopefully trying for some good holidays. I saw there was another post so I had to check in to see if she had posted again...I think she is on many of our minds. 

Sarah, if you read this....Merry Christmas and I sincerely hope all is going well!


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Boy, if I am ever in need of support, I am coming here! Such a caring bunch of people, Merry Christmas to all and their special pooches!


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Hey everyone I haven't been able to update as much as I'd like, I have been having problems with the app on my phone and I've also been busy getting things ready to go. I haven't been online much and have only been really talking to my mom, he's called but I don't answer. We're leaving on Wednesday and should be there by Wednesday night just in time for Christmas  It has been hard to stay away and not talk to him, but Xena and Eko and everyone rooting for us keeps me going. I hope everyone has a great Christmas and I'll let everyone know when we make it home safely  :hug:


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## SnapV (May 14, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Hey everyone I haven't been able to update as much as I'd like, I have been having problems with the app on my phone and I've also been busy getting things ready to go. I haven't been online much and have only been really talking to my mom, he's called but I don't answer. We're leaving on Wednesday and should be there by Wednesday night just in time for Christmas  It has been hard to stay away and not talk to him, but Xena and Eko and everyone rooting for us keeps me going. I hope everyone has a great Christmas and I'll let everyone know when we make it home safely  :hug:


Awesome Sarah, you're doing great  
Merry Christmas to you, Xena and Eko!


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## JeJo (Jul 29, 2013)

Super, Sarah! It is so good to hear that your are staying strong. You remain in our thoughts and prayers for continued strength as you move onward and upward. Thank you for checking in, Kiddo. Hugs to you, Xena and Eko.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Way to go Sarah, you're doing great! Stay strong and Merry Christmas! You're giving yourself and your dogs the best gift you possibly could! (((Hugs)))


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

In any sort of breakup situation, it's hard to resist talking to the person at first, just because you've gotten so used to having them around -- but cold turkey is the best way to go, and it gets easier and easier to stay away as time goes on. After a while, you don't even think about them 99% of the time. You can do this!


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Happy Christmas Sarah! Rest assured that you are doing the right thing. Give Xena and Eko a snuggle for me!!!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Hey everyone I haven't been able to update as much as I'd like, I have been having problems with the app on my phone and I've also been busy getting things ready to go. I haven't been online much and have only been really talking to my mom, he's called but I don't answer. We're leaving on Wednesday and should be there by Wednesday night just in time for Christmas  It has been hard to stay away and not talk to him, but Xena and Eko and everyone rooting for us keeps me going. I hope everyone has a great Christmas and I'll let everyone know when we make it home safely  :hug:


Rooting for you, Sarah. Stay strong and concentrate on you and your dogs aNd your family ... Let them be your support system.


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## afa (Dec 10, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Hey everyone I haven't been able to update as much as I'd like, I have been having problems with the app on my phone and I've also been busy getting things ready to go. I haven't been online much and have only been really talking to my mom, he's called but I don't answer. We're leaving on Wednesday and should be there by Wednesday night just in time for Christmas  It has been hard to stay away and not talk to him, but Xena and Eko and everyone rooting for us keeps me going. I hope everyone has a great Christmas and I'll let everyone know when we make it home safely  :hug:


Cheering! Cheering, cheering. 
You are worth so much more than that guy gave you. 
Have a wonderful Christmas, and stay safe. 
And have a wonderful New Year without him.


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## CrimsonAccent (Feb 17, 2012)

Chiming in late to say Merry Christmas and stay strong Sarah!


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

A little late, but Merry Christmas to you ,Xena & Eko.Stay strong. I hope you have wonderful & safe holiday.You will have a much better Christmas without him.(((hugs))) Stay strong, we all still rooting for you




Sparkles123 said:


> Boy, if I am ever in need of support, I am coming here! Such a caring bunch of people, Merry Christmas to all and their special pooches!


Yea,There should be a "support forum" here.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> Yea,There should be a "support forum" here.


I agree  

Thanks for the Christmas wishes we are leaving tomorrow, very nervous but excited also. I'll be glad to get out of the hotel room it's much too small for me and two rowdy dogs. My mom has a huge yard so they will love it there. My mom told me today about when she was 4 years old and was bitten on the arm by a pit bull, she had to have stitches, I'd never heard that and thought it was pretty interesting. She loves pit bulls even though she was attacked by one and she knows she is going to love my dogs because she knows I have raised them with a lot of love lol. My stepdad is excited to meet Mr. Eko, he is a police officer and loves German Shepherds so I'm hoping maybe he or someone he works with can help me get set up with a club or something for Eko so we can start working on his DA again when I get settled


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I agree
> 
> Thanks for the Christmas wishes we are leaving tomorrow, very nervous but excited also. I'll be glad to get out of the hotel room it's much too small for me and two rowdy dogs. My mom has a huge yard so they will love it there. My mom told me today about when she was 4 years old and was bitten on the arm by a pit bull, she had to have stitches, I'd never heard that and thought it was pretty interesting. She loves pit bulls even though she was attacked by one and she knows she is going to love my dogs because she knows I have raised them with a lot of love lol. My stepdad is excited to meet Mr. Eko, he is a police officer and loves German Shepherds so I'm hoping maybe he or someone he works with can help me get set up with a club or something for Eko so we can start working on his DA again when I get settled


Yes! that's great to hear! I hope that you will keep us posted when you get there ... also that's great to hear you might be able to find someone exp in GSD's to help you with Eko ... I for one will be anxious to hear about his progress as well


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## missPenny (Oct 2, 2012)

I just read through this entire thread and wanted to say good job Sarah! Abusive relationships are so hard to leave, and I'm sure I can speak for a lot of people when I say we're proud of you! Please keep us updated on how you are doing and how you and the dogs settle into being back at your moms. I can only hope others stumble across your thread and are inspired by your strength and seek help if they are every in a position such as yours.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm very glad to hear things are working out well.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Maybe someday Sarah can help other girls in abusive relationships.....never know where her incredibly journey will take her! she has given me lots of reasons to be Merry today! one soul saved from a potentially dangerous situation and we all pitched in to give her courage! Hope she can heal completely and have some very happy times in 2014!!!


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## BellaPup (Jul 7, 2007)

Can't wait for an update! <aargh!!> I'm excited and stressed for her at the same time. It that weird? LOL 

You will be soooo much better off with your mommy. I know...I'm over 40 and still call my parents "mommy" and "daddy"...lol But they are HOME. I don't think there is any greater love on earth. 

Hope you are HOME and had a happy, loving Christmas!!! <<hug>>


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Me too! Sarah please update soon! Hope you are safe and well ... Where ever you are.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

I bet she had a very peaceful Xmas! Can't wait to hear from her again!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I hope! I always worry when she doesn't reply for a while by I am sure she is with family.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Me, too.....(too short! Haha)
They ought to invent a "like" or "dislike" button!!!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sparkles123 said:


> Me, too.....(too short! Haha)
> They ought to invent a "like" or "dislike" button!!!!


Agreed ... Just keeping this thread bumped up hoping she will reply soon with good news


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

She will, I'm sure of it!


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## Kudzu (Aug 15, 2013)

I for one will feel much relief when Sarah chimes in to say she's safely back with her mom and stepdad. 

Sarah, please raise your hand to say all is well! I know you may be feeling inexplicably sad now at the end of this relationship, but it's normal, and it will pass. Been there.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

We made it  as I thought Eko and my mom's dog do not get along at all. I let them see each other through a sliding glass door and Eko went berserk, so of course Buster went berserk too. There's baby gates up now so Eko and Xena get the whole of the bottom floor to themselves and Buster Brown gets the top floor so that's figured out for now. 

Just sort of trying to adjust to the whole thing... Trying to stay positive but I'm feeling pretty depressed and sad, I think now more than ever because it's done now. My mom is going to try and help me get some kind of office job where she works and hopefully I can get back to normal soon. I know we will be happier here once we get back into our routine.


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

Good for you!

Keep your head up and things will get better. It's always sad (and sometimes lonely) at first but you've your mom and your dog to keep you company. Stay strong! Routines are always good and helpful. The sooner you get into a job and get back to a schedule, the easier things will become. Keep us updated.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> We made it  as I thought Eko and my mom's dog do not get along at all. I let them see each other through a sliding glass door and Eko went berserk, so of course Buster went berserk too. There's baby gates up now so Eko and Xena get the whole of the bottom floor to themselves and Buster Brown gets the top floor so that's figured out for now.
> 
> Just sort of trying to adjust to the whole thing... Trying to stay positive but I'm feeling pretty depressed and sad, I think now more than ever because it's done now. My mom is going to try and help me get some kind of office job where she works and hopefully I can get back to normal soon. I know we will be happier here once we get back into our routine.


Its hard building a new life, but it will be _so_ worth it. I haven't commented much here but I think you've handled the situation very bravely. It can be lonely being in a new place, but there are almost always people around here.... Even at this completely insane hour! You can do it, and feel free to post if you need a pick-me-up. There are a lot of people here to support/root for you, even people who haven't commented at all.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Sarah~ said:


> We made it  as I thought Eko and my mom's dog do not get along at all. I let them see each other through a sliding glass door and Eko went berserk, so of course Buster went berserk too. There's baby gates up now so Eko and Xena get the whole of the bottom floor to themselves and Buster Brown gets the top floor so that's figured out for now.
> 
> Just sort of trying to adjust to the whole thing... Trying to stay positive but I'm feeling pretty depressed and sad, I think now more than ever because it's done now. My mom is going to try and help me get some kind of office job where she works and hopefully I can get back to normal soon. I know we will be happier here once we get back into our routine.


So glad you're home and okay! The right choice isn't always the easiest one. But it WILL get easier, and when the dust settles, you'll be extremely glad you did this. For now, keep busy and surround yourself with friends and family.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

The first few weeks after leaving are the hardest. You will doubt your decision, you will miss him, you will wonder if your life will ever be good again. And whenever you have these thoughts you need to look at Xena and Eko and remember how strong you were to leave. You did this for you, but you also did it for them. Your life will not only be "as good" but it will be better! You will make friends, get a new job and find a stable existence. And, one day, when you are ready you will meet a great guy that will show you how a man should treat you.

I cannot recommend strongly enough that you change your phone number (so they can't call you) and block him from all social media and email. He will likely try to reach out to you, to convince you he has changed, you were wrong to leave, he is so sorry. They all say the same things...and they are all lies. Stay strong, the hard part is behind you - you are on the upswing towards a wonderful life that you deserve!


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Well said, ludosmom!
Thanks for the update, Sarah! So good to hear from you! How does your mom like your pups, especially xena? 
How are her seizures?
Hopefully it gets better for you with every day! Your support team (here) is rooting for you! Is there an emotional support group you can join? People that have been in abusive relationships? Or maybe you can start one up, help others....that's an awesome feeling!
Wishing you a great new Year!!! Sending hugs!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yay! I was happy to hear from you And I am glad to hear that you made it ok. Stay strong, it's hard now but you will find it gets easier. Just forgo relationships right now and focus on making yourself happy


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> We made it  as I thought Eko and my mom's dog do not get along at all. I let them see each other through a sliding glass door and Eko went berserk, so of course Buster went berserk too. There's baby gates up now so Eko and Xena get the whole of the bottom floor to themselves and Buster Brown gets the top floor so that's figured out for now.
> 
> Just sort of trying to adjust to the whole thing... Trying to stay positive but I'm feeling pretty depressed and sad, I think now more than ever because it's done now. My mom is going to try and help me get some kind of office job where she works and hopefully I can get back to normal soon. I know we will be happier here once we get back into our routine.


You're doing great.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> We made it  as I thought Eko and my mom's dog do not get along at all. I let them see each other through a sliding glass door and Eko went berserk, so of course Buster went berserk too. There's baby gates up now so Eko and Xena get the whole of the bottom floor to themselves and Buster Brown gets the top floor so that's figured out for now.
> 
> Just sort of trying to adjust to the whole thing... Trying to stay positive but I'm feeling pretty depressed and sad, I think now more than ever because it's done now. My mom is going to try and help me get some kind of office job where she works and hopefully I can get back to normal soon. I know we will be happier here once we get back into our routine.


Keep goin! You've done the hardest action part, now you just have to deal with all those crappy feelings  pm me if you want, I think we're around the same age and I've been there!

Just cook, watch a ridiculous amount of tv, wear footie pjs, and if you're of age have a freakin beer, you deserve it! You will get back into the swing of things when you're ready.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Thanks everyone I know in time it will get better. For now I'm just trying to stay busy by helping my family out with errands anything they go do I go to also if I can. Until my mom gets me set up in her phone plan I actually don't even have a phone right now, I had it turned off after I got here. And I haven't been on facebook in a while, lol, just can't bring myself to even log in. And I already have my bottle of wine in the fridge ready to go for New Year's! 

My parents love the dogs, my stepdad especially loves Eko, even though he doesn't get along with Buster he loves GSDs. My mom let Xena up in her lap and was petting her while she told me about how she was attacked by a pit bull when she was 4 years old, even showed me the scars on her arm but she still loves the breed. And even though she is a naughty puppy Xena is very sweet and cuddly with people so they love her too. We need to get her meds refilled in a few days, she only has about 3 days worth of pheno left but since Xena was started on pheno she hasn't had one seizure. We are almost 2 months seizure free!


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Thanks everyone I know in time it will get better. For now I'm just trying to stay busy by helping my family out with errands anything they go do I go to also if I can. Until my mom gets me set up in her phone plan I actually don't even have a phone right now, I had it turned off after I got here. And I haven't been on facebook in a while, lol, just can't bring myself to even log in. And I already have my bottle of wine in the fridge ready to go for New Year's!
> 
> My parents love the dogs, my stepdad especially loves Eko, even though he doesn't get along with Buster he loves GSDs. My mom let Xena up in her lap and was petting her while she told me about how she was attacked by a pit bull when she was 4 years old, even showed me the scars on her arm but she still loves the breed. And even though she is a naughty puppy Xena is very sweet and cuddly with people so they love her too. We need to get her meds refilled in a few days, she only has about 3 days worth of pheno left but since Xena was started on pheno she hasn't had one seizure. We are almost 2 months seizure free!


You are seriously doing great, keep moving forward!

I am so happy to hear things are going great.It's great your parents love your dogs.As for Xena,it makes so happy she that she has had no seizures for almost 2 months.

Have a great New Year's, & Happy News Years(& New Year's Eve).


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

She's almost 2 months without a seizure!? That is awesome, Sarah!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm sure the new environment has less stress then the old one, which is probably helping lessen her seizures.


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## Blueduck1105 (Sep 17, 2013)

That's feat news Sarah! Awesome things are starting to look up for you and the dogs! Keep us posted as I know you will!


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Yes I'm really happy with how well she is doing on her medicine, the vet told me not to get my hopes up too high because she could still have them from time to time and I try to keep that in mind but it's been nice not to have to be worried and watching her every move for some sign she is about to seize. Some days I don't think about seizures at all now, lol. I think being in a less stressful house has already made a difference for the dogs, Xena is more relaxed and Eko, who has always been very high strung and anxious, has been relaxing too. People always had to move slowly around him if you moved too fast or got too loud he'd be on you before you could even blink. Not biting just watching, he's very protective. Maybe something was going on with him, too, I just can't be sure... But either way we can all feel safe here and it's making a big difference for them and me.

I hope everyone has a great New Year too!


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## Blueduck1105 (Sep 17, 2013)

Great* wow


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Aaahhhh xena, such good news!!!! so happy to hear it!!!! You are such a brave girl, incredible courageous! 
Your message was so positive, it's simply the best Xmas gift this year for me! Keep going strong and a very Happy New Year to you and your family and pups!
Sending hugs!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm very happy to hear that the dogs are doing great and that everything's going smoothly in your new home! Stay strong; you can do this. Look how much you've done already and how much better the dogs are doing in this short of a time period!


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

So relieved to hear you and the dogs are doing well Sarah! Happy new year, and happy new life! Stay strong, you can make it, especially with the support of Xena and Eko, not to mention everyone here that will lend a shoulder or an ear as needed 
Hugs and happiness to you!


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Glad you and the dogs are doing well. Don't be surprised if, in a couple of weeks you all of a sudden get depressed/homesick for your ex/old life, or really frustrated with where you are now. It's kind of like an extinction burst, in dogs. Just go walking, exercise, spend time with your dogs, and realize it's just a phase of healing, that you are going through. Stay strong!


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

You have to remember that dogs are incredibly in tune with human emotions. Due to our co-evolution, they are aware of our fears, excitement, sadness, anxiety, etc - often before we even know it. It is possible that Eko was picking up on your stress/fear in the house and its possible that Xena will do better (although you must remember her seizures were not your fault) in a calmer place. You are happier now and your dogs sense that. They sense that they are "safe" and might very well lay off on the protectiveness. Afterall, there is less need to protect you if you are telling them it is safe.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes, I also want to stres that her seizures weren't your fault either nor was I hinting they might be when I said the less stress of the environment might be to her benefit ... And who knows maybe eko's DA might get better too once you find someone to work with him in your area.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I know nobody was saying her seizures are my fault  I just know all the sites have told me it's best to keep her calm and her environment calm especially when you don't really know what is causing the seizures. I kept her downstairs in my room for new year's so she wouldn't hear any fireworks, I kept Eko down there too he has never liked fireworks and I wanted to make sure Xena had company. Even though Eko was probably upset anyway, he cries when I leave him behind for a little while before he just lays down.

Today Xena has her first vet appointment in Seattle  she is getting a physical and having her phenobarbitol levels checked.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Fantastic to hear!

I'm happy you and the pups are doing well!


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I dropped Xena off less than an hour go and the vet called me to tell me she thinks Xena has demodectic mange.... which might explain all of her skin problems I could never seem to clear up.... I hope it's demodex and not sarcoptic.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

So glad to hear you're doing well, Sarah! You've got a lot of people here rooting for you here, you can do this! 

If it's demodex, it's not hard to control. Kuma has demodex, but instead of ivermectin, my vet had me give him three supplements to boost his immune system: acidophilus, powdered mushroom, and omega 3 oils. They're all easily available at health food stores, and as long as Kuma is on those supplements, he never has an outbreak, because demodex is tied to the immune system. As long as the immune system is strong, no demodex! I would, however, check to make sure those supplements won't have an adverse interaction with Xena's anti-seizure meds before giving them to her.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

It would actually be better if it was the other mange and not demodex, because demodex is a hereditary condition that is passed on usually from one of the parents (males are sometimes carriers, showing no symptoms) and is actually a kind of immune deficiency. So mites that occurs normally on a dogs skin (kind of like the ones that live in our eyelashes and eyebrows) cause a mange like reaction, there is no cute there is only management.

sarcoptic mange is a pain in the butt (cause it's contagious to other dogs) so until you know which mange it is I would isolate her and always way your hands after petting her before you pet any other dogs (it's not contagious to you but you can pass it to other dogs) .

But since she has been showing signs and Eko (I am assuming) hasn't then chances are it's demodex. 

Here are some links to more information (if you haven't read it already lol)

http://m.petmd.com/dog/general-health/evr_dg_demodectic_mange_in_dogs

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/demodectic_mange.html

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pe...le/animal-health/mange-demodectic-in-dogs/741


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sarah~ said:


> I dropped Xena off less than an hour go and the vet called me to tell me she thinks Xena has demodectic mange.... which might explain all of her skin problems I could never seem to clear up.... I hope it's demodex and not sarcoptic.


Lowering stress level will help support the immune system which is what keeps the demodetic mites under control. All dogs have the mites, only those with low immune systems have symptoms basically. Low stress level and good nutrition is likely to help her skin. I supplemented the diets of the two mange puppies I fostered with sardines, chicken hearts and gizzards, beef liver and kidney (small amounts) and a little greek yogurt. All cheap and available at the grocery store and since they are all regular food items, I would seriously doubt they'd interact badly with any medicines. I also used a topical antimicrobial spray on any raw skin areas to reduce itching which in turn reduces the dog's stress level.

Regular exercise is also good for the immune system IMO.



OwnedbyACDs said:


> sarcoptic mange is a pain in the butt (cause it's contagious to other dogs) so until you know which mange it is I would isolate her and always way your hands after petting her before you pet any other dogs (it's not contagious to you but you can pass it to other dogs) .


 Sarcoptic mange IS contagious to humans.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

She did not find any demodex mites, she also didn't find any sarcoptic mange mites but she said that doesn't mean anything. She found a couple live fleas on Xena so she wants to treat her as if she has flea allergies first and if that doesn't work we will start treatment for sarcoptic mange. The vet recommended I get a dose of comfortis for both dogs and a few other medications for Xena to treat her light skin infection and to stop the itching. So that's hopeful news, I suppose. The fleas should be easier to treat than mange 

Look at all the pill bottles! A bit overwhelming! But she is worth it.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Boy, fleas are a pain in the butt to eliminate these days and I'm always concerned about the toxins in flea treatments like frontline etc....good luck with your next battle here...getting rid of fleas!


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Yes, I worry about chemicals on the dogs, especially Xena. If the vet hadn't been so insistent that we get all the fleas off of her RIGHT NOW, I probably would not have wanted the comfortis. But she told me it was safe, so I will do what she is prescribing. I just hope it isn't like when I was told Xena wouldn't be incontinent after her spay and then she was. The prednisone the vet wants her to take is going to make that worse, so I'll be picking up some doggie diapers today!


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh boy....I hate prednisone yet it's a miracle drug with possibly nasty side effects....hope you can get everything under control!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Half the battle of fleas is treating the house-- make sure to wash all your bedding and her bedding (anything that is washable of course) in hot water and use a hot dryer and wash 2x per week for 3 weeks at least. Vacuum all rugs and carpet and the crevices of furniture and even curtains every other day and empty the vacuum into an outside trash can. 

A mix of salt and baking soda can be spread along the baseboards behind furniture and sprinkled between seat cushions on couches and chairs and will dehydrate the fleas and then you can vacuum it up and repeat. It is pretty safe around pets, I mean, you don't want them sniffing or licking a bunch of it, but a taste won't hurt them and it won't hurt you to touch or be around either. Don't spread it on carpet or the surfaces of furniture though because it may affect the color of fabric. 

Using a flea comb (outside!) is another chemical free treatment step.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I hope so too. I will be watching her very closely and calling the vet for every little thing, I'm sure! Lol


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I use comfortis, I have a dog who is allergic to fleas AND things like frontline so there really aren't a lot of options for us as far as he is concerned, but comfortis works very well for him and I haven't seen any side effects.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Shell said:


> Half the battle of fleas is treating the house-- make sure to wash all your bedding and her bedding (anything that is washable of course) in hot water and use a hot dryer and wash 2x per week for 3 weeks at least. Vacuum all rugs and carpet and the crevices of furniture and even curtains every other day and empty the vacuum into an outside trash can.
> 
> A mix of salt and baking soda can be spread along the baseboards behind furniture and sprinkled between seat cushions on couches and chairs and will dehydrate the fleas and then you can vacuum it up and repeat. It is pretty safe around pets, I mean, you don't want them sniffing or licking a bunch of it, but a taste won't hurt them and it won't hurt you to touch or be around either. Don't spread it on carpet or the surfaces of furniture though because it may affect the color of fabric.
> 
> Using a flea comb (outside!) is another chemical free treatment step.


Thank you Shell! It's all chemical free, love it. We will be doing all of these things I was really dreading the possibility of having to bomb for fleas!



OwnedbyACDs said:


> I use comfortis, I have a dog who is allergic to fleas AND things like frontline so there really aren't a lot of options for us as far as he is concerned, but comfortis works very well for him and I haven't seen any side effects.


Eko has taken comfortis before and been fine, I was just really worried about Xena because she has seizures and I've heard that they can be a side effect. They both took it a little while ago with some food, so far, so good!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> It would actually be better if it was the other mange and not demodex, because demodex is a hereditary condition that is passed on usually from one of the parents (males are sometimes carriers, showing no symptoms) and is actually a kind of immune deficiency. So mites that occurs normally on a dogs skin (kind of like the ones that live in our eyelashes and eyebrows) cause a mange like reaction, there is no cute there is only management.


Not true. ALL dogs have the potential to have demodex, it's only dogs with low immune systems that will have outbreaks.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Not true. ALL dogs have the potential to have demodex, it's only dogs with low immune systems that will have outbreaks.


This is what the vet told me at first, when she thought it was mange.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Kuma'sMom said:


> Not true. ALL dogs have the potential to have demodex, it's only dogs with low immune systems that will have outbreaks.


Yes, they all have the mite on their skin, only dogs with deficient immune systems are the ones who have a reaction to them is what I was told when I had two dogs, one was a rescue Doberman and the other was a blue dane / bully mix from a shelter.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yes, they all have the mite on their skin, only dogs with deficient immune systems are the ones who have a reaction to them is what I was told when I had two dogs, one was a rescue Doberman and the other was a blue dane / bully mix from a shelter.


Yes. The thought is that the weak immune systems is genetic, so dogs prone to mange are breeding dogs prone to mange.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

DJEtzel said:


> Yes. The thought is that the weak immune systems is genetic, so dogs prone to mange are breeding dogs prone to mange.


Yep, vet told me that, too  she did say she could not rule out sarcoptic mange just because she didn't find mites since those mites are much harder to find. She did scrape Xena 8x all over to try and find something, but all she found were a couple live fleas. So hopefully that's all it is and this round of meds and cleaning takes care of it. She also said she was going to look up a pill that will help with her incontinence that won't interact with her pheno, so that was nice, too  It was her first time meeting Xena but she is guessing Xena has a weak sphincter, and the spay surgery weakened it even more so she can't control it when she is relaxed or sleeping.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Maybe wearing diapers at night would help her if she would tolerate them


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Poor xena, she' soo lucky to have as her mom, Sarah!


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

Prednisone is a frustratingly amazing drug. Amazing because its like a wonder drug but frustrating because Xena will have to go out, often and without much warning. It will be in your best interest to take her out all.the.time. Like once an hour.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Yes, I'm going to get her some diapers for overnight and when she has to be crated, just in case. She is pretty good about telling me when she needs to go but there are times I don't think she even knows until it happens. So I expect an accident or two until we get a good schedule going for her, probably once an hour like ludo's mom said, lol.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Is there another medicine that also works just as well that doesn't cause incontinence? Or is it mostly due to spay incontinence? I think Josefina has spay incontinence to some degree but not to the point where she can't hold it over night ... But when she has the chance she pees ... A lot :/. 

I wish I had been able to let her go through one heat before I spayed her but it's the shelter's policy I adopted her from to do pediatric spay and neuter


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Is there another medicine that also works just as well that doesn't cause incontinence? Or is it mostly due to spay incontinence? I think Josefina has spay incontinence to some degree but not to the point where she can't hold it over night ... But when she has the chance she pees ... A lot :/.
> 
> I wish I had been able to let her go through one heat before I spayed her but it's the shelter's policy I adopted her from to do pediatric spay and neuter


I don't know, I told the new vet about her not being able to hold it, like sometimes she will just be laying down, relaxing and watching tv with me, and when she gets up there is a little puddle. Like I don't think she even notices, she did this well before we put her on any meds it started right after her spay. I wanted to wait to have her spayed but I knew I wouldn't be able to keep an intact male and female in the same house so I thought it would be the easiest to have her done at 6 months. From what the vet was saying it sounds like no matter when I would have had it done she would have probably developed this problem. So it's not her meds causing it, but they do make it much worse, as in, more pee and when she first started pheno she actually would just pee as she walked, not even noticing it. That's what worries me is that she doesn't even seem to feel it.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Maybe ask the vet if anything can be done? Bu I don't know if there can other than diapers management and understanding, poor Xena


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

curt6887 said:


> I would have a serious talk with this person and explain to them what they are doing wrong and if they continue to do it, time for a change.


^^Maybe you should go back and read the whole thread? 

Also ... I believe that ALL dogs have the potential to develop demodex if their immune systems ever become compromised, is this correct? Could something like Cancer or severe sickness also bring it on.

Don't be alarmed, Sarah ... this is a general question about demodex, I don't want you to think I am insinuating that yous Xena has cancer  ... just being clear.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> ^^Maybe you should go back and read the whole thread?
> 
> Also ... I believe that ALL dogs have the potential to develop demodex if their immune systems ever become compromised, is this correct? Could something like Cancer or severe sickness also bring it on.
> 
> Don't be alarmed, Sarah ... this is a general question about demodex, I don't want you to think I am insinuating that yous Xena has cancer  ... just being clear.


Yes I think so, or she could just have had a weak immune system from when she was born, the place I got her from was filthy and she was pretty sick when I got her. I don't think she has cancer, we have been to the vet so many times in the year I've had her... I would hope if she has a serious illness like that something may have been caught by now. But I can't be totally sure 

Edit: is there something in cat urine that could compromise her immune system when she was a puppy? The house she lived in reeked of cat pee, it made my eyes water. No place for a 14 week old puppy.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Oh, and I wanted to tell everyone, her test results came back her pheno levels are exactly where the vet wanted them to be


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes I think so, or she could just have had a weak immune system from when she was born, the place I got her from was filthy and she was pretty sick when I got her. I don't think she has cancer, we have been to the vet so many times in the year I've had her... I would hope if she has a serious illness like that something may have been caught by now. But I can't be totally sure
> 
> Edit: is there something in cat urine that could compromise her immune system when she was a puppy? The house she lived in reeked of cat pee, it made my eyes water. No place for a 14 week old puppy.


I really hope it wouldn't be cancer, or another possibly serious disease.Keeping fingers, & paws crossed.If your interested in testing for cancer in Xena, here is a Blood Test For Canine Cancer

I'm not really sure about the cat urine, hopefully other's will chime in.



Sarah~ said:


> Oh, and I wanted to tell everyone, her test results came back her pheno levels are exactly where the vet wanted them to be


That is great, I so happy to hear this


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes I think so, or she could just have had a weak immune system from when she was born, the place I got her from was filthy and she was pretty sick when I got her. I don't think she has cancer, we have been to the vet so many times in the year I've had her... I would hope if she has a serious illness like that something may have been caught by now. But I can't be totally sure
> 
> Edit: is there something in cat urine that could compromise her immune system when she was a puppy? The house she lived in reeked of cat pee, it made my eyes water. No place for a 14 week old puppy.


I don't think it would be the cat urine but just more that she isn't from the healthiest of lines genetically. Just my observation, but I think a lot of pit bulls have sensitive skin. Especially the blue pitties because people are breeding for color and not at all for health. So sensitive skin + stress + other health problems can equal demodex flare ups. Younger dogs seem to have more problems with it than older (2+ years) dogs too. 

I think that treating for fleas, feeding a good diet, and keeping her stress level low will likely do wonders for her skin and general health. It won't fix everything of course, but it will certainly help.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Shell said:


> I don't think it would be the cat urine


I wouldn't think it would be cat urine either, although if the place smelled of cat pee, there was probably a litterbox somewhere....likely completely solidified with poo and urine. If she was eating THAT, who knows what kind of litter it was and what chemicals could have been in it (personally I think the scented stuff smells toxic ). I do agree though, it is probably genetics, and environmental factors that are more at play.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Shell said:


> I don't think it would be the cat urine but just more that she isn't from the healthiest of lines genetically. Just my observation, but I think a lot of pit bulls have sensitive skin. Especially the blue pitties because people are breeding for color and not at all for health. So sensitive skin + stress + other health problems can equal demodex flare ups. Younger dogs seem to have more problems with it than older (2+ years) dogs too.
> 
> I think that treating for fleas, feeding a good diet, and keeping her stress level low will likely do wonders for her skin and general health. It won't fix everything of course, but it will certainly help.


I agree. (Too short)


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I agree with you guys that makes a lot of sense 

I got her some diapers today, last night she was dribbling as she walked again, she hasn't done that since she was adjusting to her pheno. I know it's her meds, she was also very very tired and would lean over almost to the point of falling, and sitting in the middle of the room crying again. I just try to comfort her and let her sit with me on a towel and told her it's only for a little while, poor thing.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

That's so sad!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I agree with you guys that makes a lot of sense
> 
> I got her some diapers today, last night she was dribbling as she walked again, she hasn't done that since she was adjusting to her pheno. I know it's her meds, she was also very very tired and would lean over almost to the point of falling, and sitting in the middle of the room crying again. I just try to comfort her and let her sit with me on a towel and told her it's only for a little while, poor thing.


Some meds that have drowsiness as a side effect also relax muscles and can also effect bladder control. It might be something to talk to the vet about.


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## SirWalter (Dec 12, 2013)

haha canot beleav evary one is blameing the roommate take responsibly just cause everyone hear loves dogs dont mean thay cant be bad it not his fault xena ok by thanks


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

No ... There is a very big difference from not liking dogs and purposely being mean because you don't like dogs. Sure it's fine to not like dogs (though I can't imagine why I would want to know you hehe) but what is NOT fine is bein mean to a dog because you dont like them, that is what those ... People were doing and that is not ok :/.

Sarah did the right thing in getting out of that toxic environment.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

SirWalter, you should really read this whole thread. It becomes very clear that these dogs were being abused by the roommate and boyfriend. In addition, there are other threads that informed this position. 

Sarah, prednisone did that to Ludo, too. He would be too exhausted to even get up until he had to pee...often on my bed because he had no warning and was too sleepy. It was a tough few weeks and I had to keep telling myself "its not his fault, its the meds" and I would just love on him and tell him it was ok.

Xena will be ok and she'll be off the prednisone soon. That will fix things in that regard.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

People who don't read a full thread before posting in it really irritate me.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

But maybe they can't read...so, be compassionate...
Right...


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> People who don't read a full thread before posting in it really irritate me.


Reading the first page would have been sufficient to get a good idea that it wasn't the dog's fault..... 

I admit that sometimes on a long thread, I will read the first page to get an idea of what is going on and then skip to the last page or two to see if the issue has been resolved and how it has or hasn't been resolved. By then though, I can usually tell if it is worth commenting on and if so, then I read the in-between generally.


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## SirWalter (Dec 12, 2013)

Sparkles123 said:


> But maybe they can't read...so, be compassionate...
> Right...


haha ok fare point that was a noob post on my part haha sorey stil getin a feal for things NO HARD FEALINGS ok by


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I feel like sirwalter is pulling our leg.
If not, that spelling and grammar completely explains it. I wouldn't put much stock in hir posts.


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## SirWalter (Dec 12, 2013)

HollowHeaven said:


> I feel like sirwalter is pulling our leg.
> If not, that spelling and grammar completely explains it. I wouldn't put much stock in hir posts.


you shoudl talk sorey im not a perfect speler english is not my first langage so I'm more just hear to talk about dogs ill trie beter but serosly man donot through rocks from a glas house ok NO HARD FEALINGS by


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

HollowHeaven said:


> I feel like sirwalter is pulling our leg.
> If not, that spelling and grammar completely explains it. I wouldn't put much stock in hir posts.


I feel the same. Not just the spelling but general attitude is hard to believe.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Avery said:


> I feel the same. Not just the spelling but general attitude is hard to believe.


No kidding. Plus, even someone who isn't a native English speaker should be able to spell at least SOME words right...


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> No kidding. Plus, even someone who isn't a native English speaker should be able to spell at least SOME words right...


Yes, the amount of effort it must have taken to misspell to that degree is quite astounding...that's dedication that you just have to admire.


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

andi42 said:


> Also, as an English language teacher... idioms like "donot through rocks from a glas house" [sic] are not used because they are not understood by someone just learning English... they are taken literally!


That's what I was thinking. Also they seemed to know all the words, at least phonetically.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Read the rules folks. Troll calling is NOT permitted here, and will be punished with a temp ban. If you suspect someone is trolling, report them, but name calling is not permitted.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Sorry... didn't realize the t-word wasn't allowed period. I was trying to make a "Tree falling in the woods" joke. (Now I know better, thank you for the warning).


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> Sorry... didn't realize the t-word wasn't allowed period. I was trying to make a "Tree falling in the woods" joke. (Now I know better, thank you for the warning).


Heh heh did the auto correct get ya? That's what always happens to me.

Also I read back twice and I didn't see anyone use any name calling  but I might have missed it too.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

The offending post was removed, and the perpetrator given a temp time out. Gingerkid, I deleted your post as well, since you were quoting it, but since you didn't actually call the poster a troll, only responded, I felt that was enough.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I realize this thread is long and maybe confusing to those who haven't kept up with it but I do wish people wouldn't just read the first post or two and then make comments like that. I'm glad it's only been a couple of people 

Xena wet herself so much last night I'm considering calling the vet. I let her out every half hour and she still soaked one of her diapers and then some. I still have two big bowls of water filled up at all times should I start restricting her water? I hate to do that, I have their food and water available always so I know they are never hungry or thirsty.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I realize this thread is long and maybe confusing to those who haven't kept up with it but I do wish people wouldn't just read the first post or two and then make comments like that. I'm glad it's only been a couple of people
> 
> Xena wet herself so much last night I'm considering calling the vet. I let her out every half hour and she still soaked one of her diapers and then some. I still have two big bowls of water filled up at all times should I start restricting her water? I hate to do that, I have their food and water available always so I know they are never hungry or thirsty.


I just ignore them, they don't know  You know what you overcame and that's all that matters


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> Xena wet herself so much last night I'm considering calling the vet. I let her out every half hour and she still soaked one of her diapers and then some. I still have two big bowls of water filled up at all times should I start restricting her water? I hate to do that, I have their food and water available always so I know they are never hungry or thirsty.


Increased thirst is a common side-effect of phenobarb, and more water in = more going out. I would restrict her water, maybe offer it freely when you are around but only give a fixed amount to her if you are not around, and before bedtime. Not sure what the living cirucmstances with Eko are - do you still crate them when you leave the house? That would make it easier to restrict Xena's water without restricting Eko's water.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Well said!!! (Too short)


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

gingerkid said:


> Increased thirst is a common side-effect of phenobarb, and more water in = more going out. I would restrict her water, maybe offer it freely when you are around but only give a fixed amount to her if you are not around, and before bedtime. Not sure what the living cirucmstances with Eko are - do you still crate them when you leave the house? That would make it easier to restrict Xena's water without restricting Eko's water.


Maybe give her ice cubes? I used to do that with my puppies when they were young, they say not to give water after a certain time because of a risk of accidents, but I never could do it (I mean I get thirsty at night!) so I would give them ice cubes to chew on instead.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Maybe give her ice cubes? I used to do that with my puppies when they were young, they say not to give water after a certain time because of a risk of accidents, but I never could do it (I mean I get thirsty at night!) so I would give them ice cubes to chew on instead.


Ice cubs are still water...


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

gingerkid said:


> Ice cubs are still water...


But ice cubes are consumed more slowly then a big bowl of water and would keep her mouth from feeling dry without her being able to suck down a huge amount of water at once. 

I'd probably pick up water an hour or so before bedtime but let her drink water freely during the day.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I just ignore them, they don't know  You know what you overcame and that's all that matters


Thank you, I will 



gingerkid said:


> Increased thirst is a common side-effect of phenobarb, and more water in = more going out. I would restrict her water, maybe offer it freely when you are around but only give a fixed amount to her if you are not around, and before bedtime. Not sure what the living cirucmstances with Eko are - do you still crate them when you leave the house? That would make it easier to restrict Xena's water without restricting Eko's water.


Yes, the pheno+prednisone+pre-existing bladder problems equal one huge mess for me!! She us always SO thirsty I don't have the heart to take it away. Thank god only 2 more days until I am supposed to lower her dose a little bit.

I do crate them both when I leave, there are baby gates separating Buster and Eko but I like the crates to be extra sure. I have been considering just shutting the door to the rec room since it's a pretty big room and leaving him in there instead since he can be trusted not to destroy or have an accident. Then I could leave a full water bowl in there. Xena is crated when I'm gone if I will be gone a while I like to leave her some water in her crate. 



OwnedbyACDs said:


> Maybe give her ice cubes? I used to do that with my puppies when they were young, they say not to give water after a certain time because of a risk of accidents, but I never could do it (I mean I get thirsty at night!) so I would give them ice cubes to chew on instead.


That sounds better, that's what I always thought, I get thirsty and hot at night and I don't even have a fur coat on. I could do ice cubes a few hours before bedtime, then Xena goes in her crate and I shut my bedroom door with Eko in it with a bowl of water. He gets pretty thirsty too he has a much thicker coat and my mom keeps the house warm so I don't want to take any water from him. He isn't neutered and doesn't even mark or lift his leg at almost 2 years old, plus he will wake me up if he has to go so I don't worry at all with him.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Sarah, it sounds like you are doing well in your new life! Keep going strong, we are all behind you!


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

Thank you! It's getting easier every day


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

����������������������������������������
lots of smiley faces, sarah,!!


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## Firestorm (Feb 21, 2010)

Glad to hear you're doing well! Happy endings are always a plus.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

That is great! I hope it keeps getting easier & better. You have done so much for your dogs,& I just love that.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> Thank you, I will
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't give mine water after they come in due to none of them being able to hold it heh heh, that's why I give them ice cubes, the males can't hold it and the females have spay incontinence.


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## JeJo (Jul 29, 2013)

Love the new light in your posts, Sarah. Continue to take good care.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Me too! There seems to be more "bounce in her step" lately


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

So... Kind of an update/question... 

Xena has finished her antibiotic, almost finished her prednisone, took her to the vet for her follow up and they said she looks good. 

They said the pill for incontinence could possibly make her pheno not as effective, it could not. So I'm kind of leaning towards no on it I don't want to ruin a good thing, you know? I heard about corn silk, has anyone tried that on their dog for incontinence? 

Also the vet said I need to start considering what I want to do next as far as Xena's allergies because her reactions are getting bad and they don't want to keep putting her on steroids. He said I could start looking at a food trial, OR... send a sample of her blood for testing to find out all she is allergic to, and they can have her take some immuno-somethings that will hopefully (not guaranteed) raise her tolerance to whatever it is that's bugging her so much. That would be 250-300 dollars. What would you do?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

You could try the incontinence meds but that would be kinda a high risk trial. I think I would go with doggy diapers or something for instead.

You could do a food trial, but that may lead to switching foods multiple times until you find the right thing. I would try to save up the money and go for a test. That way you know for sure.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Don't have any advice or suggestions, but so glad to hear some good news from you! You sound sooooo much better, Sarah, keep it up!
Sending hugs and hopefully the vets on this forum will chime in....


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Sarah what food are you feeding?


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> So... Kind of an update/question...
> 
> . What would you do?


I would feed RAW ONLY
I'm a firm believer that kibble is potentially poisonous and surely could be causing allergic reactions....but that's just my belief!


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Sparkles123 said:


> I would feed RAW ONLY
> I'm a firm believer that kibble is potentially poisonous and surely could be causing allergic reactions....but that's just my belief!


I agree with raw. My old female started to leak to a point where I had to put diapers on her. Well the diapers didn't go so well. I didn't like the fact that she drank a lot from kibble and needed to pee a lot too. I switched her to raw and her incontinence went away. Yeast went away. She drinks less on raw so that helps with the frequent peeing.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

The dogs are all eating Nature's Domain Grain Free Salmon and Sweet Potato. They all seem to like it, even Eko, who I was worried about. If he does not like the food I give him he will just not eat. There is no well he'll eat when he's hungry he will starve himself. 

Funny side story, my cat is picky like that too, I bought some store brand cat food once cause I thought he would eat it all the same and I set the food down for him, came back and he had pooped in the bowl!

I hope it's not food that's the problem, I already took out grains I don't know what it could be. The prescription hypoallergenic food the vet mentioned is like 80$ for a large bag... I do like the idea of the blood test telling me exactly what she is allergic to. But are they that accurate? The vet said the immuno things they would give her after the test may or may not help with her allergies but he didn't say how accurate the tests were.

Oh and thank you, I feel as good as I sound  you guys and my mom and sister have really made everything go about as well as it could. My mom has been great with keeping me busy with going out and just keeping me busy, no sitting in the house moping.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> The dogs are all eating Nature's Domain Grain Free Salmon and Sweet Potato.


That's what I feed my girl. She loves it too! Glad that things are going well for you


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

That's wonderful, Sarah! your mom must be a very special person! I'm so happy for you!!!!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

A good site to check how your food stacks up is www.dogfoodadvisor.com. You can also see the whole ingredient list, some dogs are allergic to the smallest things, I have one who can't have yeast and rosemary. They really like the brand I am feeding now (Merick) I feed the pork and sweet potato because the beef and sweet potato has yeast in it :/.

Fickle things these dogs. Lol

On "starving" Izze once held out for over a week but I didn't cave and after that extinction burst I could switch food and if she didn't like it she might go for two days before caving


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> Also the vet said I need to start considering what I want to do next as far as Xena's allergies because her reactions are getting bad and they don't want to keep putting her on steroids. He said I could start looking at a food trial, OR... send a sample of her blood for testing to find out all she is allergic to, and they can have her take some immuno-somethings that will hopefully (not guaranteed) raise her tolerance to whatever it is that's bugging her so much. That would be 250-300 dollars. What would you do?


If it were me, I'd do the allergy blood test and Immunoglobulin injections. The blood test will tell you exactly what she is allergic to rather than guessing, and I've heard great things about the IgG injections in people. Is that the combined cost for the immunoglobulin injections AND the allergy test? If so, that sounds like a steal! I know that $300 is quite a bit of money, but considering the average cost of vet treatment, its actually quite inexpensive.

Snowball is on the Nature's Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato too. He's a big fan, and I am too. I really like Dog Food Advisor, but one thing it can't help with is picking a food based on a price-point, and it is a lot of food work to research which brands are best and go out and figure out how much they cost, especially since most of the 4- and 5-star rated foods aren't exactly budget-conscious.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

It looks like with Xena's issues getting worse, you got away from your boyfriend just in time... Charlotte has incontinence issues, but it's due to her spay. Try looking into a doggy diaper maybe until you can figure out a way to control it better.


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## Sarah~ (Oct 12, 2013)

I checked dog food advisor, nature's domain is only three and a half stars  but it's the food my mom has always used and I am really excited about how Eko really seems to like it. Trust me, I did the waiting it out thing for about a month, he would eat every few days or so and lost a significant amount of weight to the point people were starting to ask if he was sick. They said he must be sick since I set out two big bowls of food every day and they can eat whenever and however much they want, and he was still losing weight. So it is important to me at least that he be enthusiastic about his food. Xena could care less what I feed her lol  With my luck it probably is some teeny tiny thing she is super allergic to!

I do like the idea of the test telling me exactly what she is allergic to so it's a simple just get rid of this this and this, instead of a guessing game with her food and it possibly being something environmental. The vet didn't say if that price was with the injections or not, I'll have to ask more about it. I did notice that lol all the 4 and 5 star brands would be stretching it a bit too tight. Especially with a 90# dog and a 50# dog. My mom's dog Buster Brown is a 70# lab/GSP mix so you can imagine between all three we go through a LOT of food! 

Yes I agree my ex would never have let me spend the money I have on Xena since I got here. It's been nice making my own decisions  We got her some diapers, she's almost off of the prednisone so at least when she does it there isn't as much. I was just wondering since I read some more on this pill and it said some dogs even after a few months don't need the pill anymore. But I don't want anything messing with her pheno at all if the vets aren't sure it will interfere or not I don't want to risk it. My only concern with this corn silk stuff is I don't know if Xena is allergic to corn or anything and she is just now getting over her last bad allergic reaction. I think I am just going to have to cough up the money for the blood test before I can work on her incontinence. Get one thing done at a time


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

> Yes I agree my ex would never have let me spend the money I have on Xena since I got here. It's been nice making my own decisions We got her some diapers, she's almost off of the prednisone so at least when she does it there isn't as much. I was just wondering since I read some more on this pill and it said some dogs even after a few months don't need the pill anymore. But I don't want anything messing with her pheno at all if the vets aren't sure it will interfere or not I don't want to risk it. My only concern with this corn silk stuff is I don't know if Xena is allergic to corn or anything and she is just now getting over her last bad allergic reaction. I think I am just going to have to cough up the money for the blood test before I can work on her incontinence. Get one thing done at a time


Sounds like a wise decision to me


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

You go, girl!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

It's 3 1/2 stars because it only has one meat, the others are sweet potatoes and a bunch of plant proteins. That and that it only has 300- something cals per cup, I couldn't feed Josefina that ... She would starve on that even thigh she is an eating machine. It has to have 400 cals or better.

Maybe talk to the vet about dex or DEPO shots for her allergies since it would be really hard to pinpoint what she is allergic to.
I feed Merick and even Izze ... My super picky dog liked it. If it turns out that you have to switch what I did was buy the smallest bag I could to lessen the sting in case they don't like or do well on it lol. But I but my food from a place called "pet supplies plus" they guarantee their foods so if your dogs don't like it you could take it back and they will refund your money. They have a site www.petsuppliesplus.com it's not very big but it does have a store locator where you can search by state or zip I believe.


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## ludosmum (Jan 4, 2012)

Sarah, I cannot tell you how happy I am for you, Xena and Eko!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Agreed ... Now I you wanted you can feed anything you want to now, get her any care you want for her and no one can tell you know or that she isn't worth it.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Maybe talk to the vet about dex or DEPO shots for her allergies since it would be really hard to pinpoint what she is allergic to.


The whole point of the allergy blood test is to pin point what she is allergic to. 

Nature's Domain Salmon and Sweet potato is 336 kcals/cup. However, do not equate kcals/cup with quality. K/cal per cup depends on more than just the ingredients in the food, but also the size and the density of the kibbles. Fromm, TOWT, INNOVA, Anamet, and Eagle Pack all have non-senior non-diet foods that are under 400 k/cal per cup. Diamond, Blue Buffalo, and Avoderm Naturals (all 3-star foods) on all produce at least one food that is over 400 k/cal per cup. In fact, Alpo has slightly higher kcal/cup than TOWT (375 vs 370). But which one is actually the better food?

I know the comparisons are ridiculous and obvious to us that spend time researching our dog food - TOWT is obviously a much better food than ALPO - but I'm being ridiculous to emphasize the point (mostly for people who are lurking and may be overwhelmed with the sheer amount of information, good or bad, that is out there) that you c*annot accurately rate dog foods based on one statistic alone*. Not to mention that just because a food is "good" for one dog doesn't mean it is good for all dogs. A food that works good for Josephina, who has a hard time keeping weight on, would not necessarily be good for Snowball who has the opposite problem.

ANYWAY, Sarah, I'm glad you and Xena and Eko are doing so well and I hope you get Xena's allergies figured out soon.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

That's why I stay away from anything under 400 cals/cup. For me, a food that is under that isn't quality FOR ME. 

Those allergy old tests aren't always conclusive. If they say it isn't I would ask the vet what you can give her for allergies that won't interfere with her meds.


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## Galathiel (Apr 11, 2012)

And actually, Blue Buffalo has 4 and 5 star foods too, including the ones that are over 400kcal/cup. I feed my senior wilderness (all wilderness formulas are a 5 star food). My pup was on LBP and it was a 4.5 food. I've since switched him to Fromm LBP and will be going to the grain free adult in a few months.

IF she could determine conclusively what Xena is allergic to, it might be cheaper in the long run than having to always be changing foods.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

BB is a good food ... The only reason I don't feed it is because most of their formulas are chicken or turkey or fish and mine won't eat fishy foods lol


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