# Wanting my dog to be an "Outside Dog". What happens when it gets cold?



## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

We have 2 new puppies, and I initially intended for them to be outside dogs. We have had them for a week and they have been living inside. We have a big backyard, and it even has a shaded area. I'm ready for them to start living outside, starting next week no one will be home during the work day. 

My only question though is what happens when it gets cold outside? I don't know what I will do with them when it gets to 30 degrees... it even got down below 20 here this past winter. (yes I know that's not COLD compared to the North, but when you have 100+ degree summer days, 20 degrees feels pretty COLD!) 

I am sure I will have to bring them inside, but by then they will be 6 months old, without being house broken...

Any advice will be GREATLY appreciated!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Why do you want them to be outside-only dogs? If a dog isn't allowed indoors to become part of the family, training becomes very difficult and, in many cases, the dogs basically grow up wild (especially if there are 2 or more!). Unless you spend a LOT of time out there with them, training and paying attention to them, I don't think you'll see satisfactory results from having outside-only dogs. It's usually a huge disaster.

That being said, a good insulated dog house stuffed with straw, kept out of the wind, will keep dogs warm enough. A heated water bowl is also necessary if it gets below freezing, or the dogs won't have enough liquid water to drink. They usually need more food in the winter, burning calories generates heat.


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## Charis (Jul 12, 2009)

Growing up we had an "outside" dog. I don't raise my dogs like that now but I was a kid and he was the ranch guard dog. We used a heat lamp on occasion, straw, a good sturdy dog house. We had to change his water frequently as it froze into a chunk of ice pretty easy on the really cold days.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

> If a dog isn't allowed indoors to become part of the family, training becomes very difficult and, in many cases, the dogs basically grow up wild (especially if there are 2 or more!). Unless you spend a LOT of time out there with them, training and paying attention to them, I don't think you'll see satisfactory results from having outside-only dogs. It's usually a huge disaster.


I completely disagree, where I live, most dogs are outside, there are even neighbors with little lhasa apsos that are outside, and all of those dogs are well behaved dogs and are very much a part of the family. I also have 1 completely outside dog (not allowed inside the house ever) and she is very much a part of the family and is the best trained dog I have and loves me like crazy.

1. Get a GOOD no, GREAT/AMAZING dog house (2 if you have 2 dogs), spend the extra money on this as it will save your dogs life in the cold cold nights. 
2. Get heating pads, we found some at Runnings that heat only when you press on them, so they are cool and wont over heat and they heat when the dog lays on them, they will also keep your dogs warm.
3. Fill the dog houses with straw, very warm.
4. Make sure the houses are facing away from the wind, wouldn't want snow blowing into the houses and making it cold or trapping your poor dogs in there.
5. 20 degrees isn't going to be that cold unless you have little dogs. Dogs are very good to adapting to their environments and will grow a winter coat that is big and fluffy (unless you have a breed that doesn't do that, like a poodle) 

We have negative nights out here and blizzards, we also have an old outdoor dog that has problems with her back, but she has been outdoors all of her life (well, she was indoor for the first year) but has never had a problem with the cold. 

Good luck!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 25, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> We have 2 new puppies, and I initially intended for them to be outside dogs. We have had them for a week and they have been living inside. We have a big backyard, and it even has a shaded area. I'm ready for them to start living outside, starting next week no one will be home during the work day.
> 
> My only question though is what happens when it gets cold outside? I don't know what I will do with them when it gets to 30 degrees... it even got down below 20 here this past winter. (yes I know that's not COLD compared to the North, but when you have 100+ degree summer days, 20 degrees feels pretty COLD!)
> 
> ...


 I wouldn't be worried so much about the cold as the heat...especially since we're just getting started on summer and your guys are puppies. I live in TX too, so I know firsthand how hot it gets here! Also, leaving two puppies outside unsupervised for long periods of time is asking for trouble. Add heat to that mix, and you could come home to two very sick or dead pups. I personally would rethink making them outside dogs, at least for now. Wait until they are at least a year old. That also gives you plenty of time to bond with and train them. And you also won't have to worry about them not being housetrained when you bring them in during the winter.  Also, what kind of dogs are they? Their breed will influence the length of time they can be outside. Any of the "brachy breeds" (Shihtzus, Boxers, etc....any breed with a short-nose) cannot be out in the heat for long. I have a Lhasa, so I know about that!


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

mom24doggies said:


> Also, what kind of dogs are they? Their breed will influence the length of time they can be outside. Any of the "brachy breeds" (Shihtzus, Boxers, etc....any breed with a short-nose) cannot be out in the heat for long. I have a Lhasa, so I know about that!


They are Pit Bulls. And we have 2 of them. Both from the same litter.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

If you are concerned with them being unhouse trained, why not train them? Some dogs do okay as outside only dogs, especially if the owner is an outdoorsy type of person, but many are frustrated and lonely, and develop bad habits due to lack of focussed activity and guidance. I know dogs can adjust to extremes of temperature, but I think part of taking on the responsibility of a pet is to make sure basic needs are met (which includes not exposing them to those extremes) and also training them so they can be in your home if need be (in my case, because I want them to be) without fouling or destroying your home.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 25, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> They are Pit Bulls. And we have 2 of them. Both from the same litter.


 OK, so they aren't short-nosed. Still though, your pups are going to need socialization, training, and bonding time. Especially socialization for pits...they are wonderful dogs, but can become aggressive if left to themselves. But of course, that goes for any breed. IME though, pits REALLY need extra socialization. If they are confined to the outdoors all the time, they aren't going to get that.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Please tell me you aren't getting them as guard dogs. Pit Bulls are extremely human friendly and only dog aggressive. However, if they never leave the yard and aren't socialized (aka neglected) then they will get very frustrated and scared of the outside world. In that case they might be aggressive with strangers. I apologize if those aren't you intentions.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

luvntzus said:


> Please tell me you aren't getting them as guard dogs. Pit Bulls are extremely human friendly and only dog aggressive. However, if they never leave the yard and aren't socialized (aka neglected) then they will get very frustrated and scared of the outside world. In that case they might be aggressive with strangers. I apologize if those aren't you intentions.


Are you asking that just because of their breed? Not everyone with a "scary" breed that has it outside wants it to be a gaurd dog. I know a lot of people that just don't think large dogs belong in the house. They love theirs dogs, they just keep them outside.


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## Trillian (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm not going to even get into this...it makes me extremely sad


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## mom24doggies (Mar 25, 2011)

TStafford said:


> Are you asking that just because of their breed? Not everyone with a "scary" breed that has it outside wants it to be a gaurd dog. I know a lot of people that just don't think large dogs belong in the house. They love theirs dogs, they just keep them outside.


 I don't think that she is. She's asking because some people get pit bulls with the idea that they will be guard dogs.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TStafford said:


> Are you asking that just because of their breed? Not everyone with a "scary" breed that has it outside wants it to be a gaurd dog. I know a lot of people that just don't think large dogs belong in the house. They love theirs dogs, they just keep them outside.


If one doesn't think a large dog belongs in the house, perhaps a toy poodle would be a better choice. I never really understood the concept of having a guard dog outside. I knew a guy with a very tough SchH 3 Rottweiler who was burglarized twice (they apparently waited for the insurance money to come through and then hit him again) because the stuff they wanted to steal was in the house, and the dog was in the yard. The thing is, dogs (of any breed) may be less a part of their owner's life if they are kept outside. There is less communication, less bonding (unless it is the sort of person who spends most of their time outdoors with the dog, which is fairly rare) Two dogs without a human's concerted guidance become a pack. They make their own decisions. They make their own games. They make their own rules. I can generally tell when I get an "outdoors dog" in class. I salute the owner for caring enough to make the effort to train, but the connection is usually clearly missing.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Again I would disagree with the idea that just because a dog is an outside dog that it is unsocialized and untrained. My dog (an outdoor dog) was the best dog in the class and literally leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the class. No, she didn't work well with other people (she got silly and just wanted a belly rub) but she worked extremely well as soon as I would grab the leash or give her a command. 

I also think it is silly to think that just because someone has an outside dog that they want protection. I wouldn't even say that *most* people with an outside dog got it for protection. I also was raised with and have known many people who just feel that big dogs are meant to be outside, and little dogs don't do a job that they would need and even though little dogs are cute, they are notorious for yapping and they are fragile.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

mom24doggies said:


> .... She's asking because some people get pit bulls with the idea that they will be guard dogs.


I didn't post it because I think they're "scary dogs". I'm not scared of most Pit Bulls. It depends on the individual dog. If you read my post I was actually discouraging using that breed as a guard. Mom24doggies is right. I asked because quite a lot of people get Pit Bulls as guard dogs.


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

A LOT of dog bites are from outside only dogs. Unless you're outside A LOT with them and socializing them, they may become bored and territorial. And Pit Bulls do not tolerate heat well!!! Even though they aren't "flat faced" they can have difficulty breathing in the heat, and they definitely don't tolerate cold well either! I think a big part of owning a Pit Bull is the human interaction. They are bred to be great with humans, and they need that time to be close to you.



luvntzus said:


> Please tell me you aren't getting them as guard dogs. Pit Bulls are extremely human friendly and only dog aggressive. However, if they never leave the yard and aren't socialized (aka neglected) then they will get very frustrated and scared of the outside world. In that case they might be aggressive with strangers. I apologize if those aren't you intentions.


I agree. If you research Pit Bull bite statistics (the real ones, not the anti-pit websites) almost all of them are outside dogs. They aren't good guard dogs, but they are powerful dogs that need human attention, training, and socialization. If you don't take them anywhere, just leave them in your yard, they are most likely not going to take kindly to people or other animals going on their territory, guard dog type or not. 

I have a Pit, he loves his outside time, but he can't take heat for long (we live in NY too, not as hot as Texas), and he hates the cold (runs out, pees, runs in).


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

How old will these puppies be when they're moved outside? I recall from previous posts that these puppies were extremely young, like 6 weeks or something.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Why even get a dog, if you're just going to throw it out back?


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## Trillian (Jan 17, 2011)

spotted nikes said:


> Why even get a dog, if you're just going to throw it out back?


...........+1


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Mdawn said:


> How old will these puppies be when they're moved outside? I recall from previous posts that these puppies were extremely young, like 6 weeks or something.


Exactly what i was going to ask; if I figure it correctly, you are planning to put them outside at 8 weeks old? Even though I think that under limited circumstances it can be okay to have an outside dog (for example, livestock guard dogs or some other farm dogs that have a job and a safe/weatherproof place to stay), putting 2 YOUNG puppies outside is a horrible idea. 

First- at 8 weeks of age, they do NOT have the immunity needed to even go for walks outside and won't for several more weeks and the 3 rounds of parvo shots. Also on the health aspect, as puppies they have even less ability to deal with heat (and cold) then adult dogs (which don't deal well with heat to begin with). 

Second- these two pups are going to bond to each other and not to you unless you diligently give each of them individual training and play time every single day (really, multiple times a day since short sessions work best). You are likely to end up with two unruly adults with no manners, no social skills and no training to listen to you. With a larger breed, especially one with a bad reputation, this is dangerous and irresponsible.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I live in the Metroplex and we're at 100 - 110 degrees right now. My Lab mix gets 'cabin fever' and begs to go outside, where he has a sand pile (non-critical flower garden) and shade, as well as 3 buckets of water. After he gets too hot from sleeping on his back in the hot sun, he'll go into the shade and sleep. If I ask him to come back in before 2pm, there's a 50% chance that he'll crawl back into the shade. Pits can handle the heat even better than Labs as long as there's water and shade.

The ice storm we had last winter was a different issue - He loved it outside. I let him sleep outside on an old dry rug during the day, but sometimes I had to force (!!!) him to come back in during the night (probably because we kept the house to hot for him.) I made sure that I carried out a fresh bucket of tap water when I let him out during the day... It took a few hours before it'd get cold, then another few before it started to freeze, but it didn't have time to freeze hard.

A Pit can handle ~27 degrees around here, as long as he can get out of the weather, out of the rain/ice storms, and out of the wind, along with leaves, straw, or a rug and some blankets. Pits don't have the same fur that Labs do, but they're still fairly tough, and can handle cold weather ( or hot weather) when you take them for a walk.... after they've been conditioned and acclimated. 

I would recommend that you bring the pups inside if the night temperature is above 85 (not needed, but I think they sleep better), or when the night temperature goes below 27 degrees...

I'm assuming that you live in the Metroplex, not in the colder regions. You might want to be a little more careful in the western regions.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

spotted nikes said:


> Why even get a dog, if you're just going to throw it out back?


thanks for asking what I was going to. There are very few people I know of who have outside dogs that I mostly agree with; this person isn't one of them.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

all i can safely say on this thread...is that i cant say anything on this thread. id be banned in under 5 seconds. but you can take the hint about what i think of your idea.


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## Trillian (Jan 17, 2011)

Honestly. In Texas heat it is EXTREMELY easy for dogs to get 'forgotten' because it's too hot to go out back and play with them. There are VERY, VERY few people who I didn't mind having mostly outside dogs but they where almost literally outside 24/7. My mother grew up in michigan where they had acres of land and outside dogs...but they where out side a TON (it's all there was to do in the farm land she grew up on.)

I know first hand what happens to dogs who get forgotten and spend their lives in 110 degree weather. Kya my heart dog was thrown out by her owners. She ended up DYING because she spent all 8 years of her life in texas heat. Her organs shut down from over exposure to the elements.... I'm not trying to scare you with some made up garbage...I'm 100% serious...


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## rgordon82 (Jul 17, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Why do you want them to be outside-only dogs? If a dog isn't allowed indoors to become part of the family, training becomes very difficult and, in many cases, the dogs basically grow up wild (especially if there are 2 or more!). Unless you spend a LOT of time out there with them, training and paying attention to them, I don't think you'll see satisfactory results from having outside-only dogs. It's usually a huge disaster.
> 
> That being said, a good insulated dog house stuffed with straw, kept out of the wind, will keep dogs warm enough. A heated water bowl is also necessary if it gets below freezing, or the dogs won't have enough liquid water to drink. They usually need more food in the winter, burning calories generates heat.


I don't think being an outside dog is bad. 

To Texas Made

You can just let them in when it gets cold. So that they are used to being outside and inside. When they are used to being inside the house they won't stop crying til they get used to it. You can also get a dog house and then fill it with cloths. That way they won't get cold.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

rgordon82 said:


> I don't think being an outside dog is bad.
> 
> To Texas Made
> 
> You can just let them in when it gets cold. So that they are used to being outside and inside. When they are used to being inside the house they won't stop crying til they get used to it. You can also get a dog house and then fill it with cloths. That way they won't get cold.


I didn't say that being an outside dog is bad---IF the person spends enough time with them. Most people don't, and the dogs grow up unsocialized and wild. And the person usually ends up getting rid of them. It rarely works out.

And "cloths" are the worst thing to put in a dog house. They get wet and freeze and suck the warmth right out of the dog. Straw or hay is best. Nothing at all is second best. But never blankets or other cloth material.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Pawzk9 said:


> If one doesn't think a large dog belongs in the house, perhaps a toy poodle would be a better choice. I never really understood the concept of having a guard dog outside. I knew a guy with a very tough SchH 3 Rottweiler who was burglarized twice (they apparently waited for the insurance money to come through and then hit him again) because the stuff they wanted to steal was in the house, and the dog was in the yard. The thing is, dogs (of any breed) may be less a part of their owner's life if they are kept outside. There is less communication, less bonding (unless it is the sort of person who spends most of their time outdoors with the dog, which is fairly rare) Two dogs without a human's concerted guidance become a pack. They make their own decisions. They make their own games. They make their own rules. I can generally tell when I get an "outdoors dog" in class. I salute the owner for caring enough to make the effort to train, but the connection is usually clearly missing.


A good burglar can eliminate most outside dogs if needed also a good burglar will go elsewhere. An in house dog is much more difficult to eliminate because owner is there to help dog. One dog outside is functional, 2 dogs can be one step the other side of insanity. That being said good luck with whatever you do.

Oh, I always liked a mixture of straw and Cedar shavings.

Yes, I agree with Trillian about outside dogs that can live a bleak lonely life and sometimes have an early death and I don't care who gets scared. Let us build a scenario with 2 dogs playing in the heat and one gets overheated and then there is one.

I kept dogs outside in outdoor kennel runs for years but as a professional I had to keep track of them because people frown when their dogs die unnecessarily at the dog trainers.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

With the right owner I believe APBTs can live a great life as outdoor dogs...I have many friends in the APBT community that have dogs out mostly 24/7 

Granted they are working dogs that get 2 days a week of hard core training...ie..schutzhund, tracking, OB ...and the other days lighter exercise ...like flirt pole, spring pole , walks 

They also have proper set ups....10x5 kennels with custom made dog houses ( 2 rooms to cut down on weather penetration )...and reinforced locks on all gates 

dogs are never left together ...EVER!

do they every come inside?....yes....in really drastic weather they do have enough rooms and crates to contain everyone .....we had some tornado warnings this year and they brought everyone inside ...but its not realistic long term 

these dogs never go one day with out human interaction 

if your ready to step up to this kind of ownership...then I'm all for it


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

pugmom said:


> with the right owner i believe apbts can live a great life as outdoor dogs...i have many friends in the apbt community that have dogs out mostly 24/7
> 
> granted they are working dogs that get 2 days a week of hard core training...ie..schutzhund, tracking, ob ...and the other days lighter exercise ...like flirt pole, spring pole , walks
> 
> ...


this. X a billion.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

pugmom said:


> With the right owner I believe APBTs can live a great life as outdoor dogs...I have many friends in the APBT community that have dogs out mostly 24/7
> ..........
> if your ready to step up to this kind of ownership...then I'm all for it


These are 6-7 week old puppies though! And he is talking about having them outside from age 8 weeks and on. I don't care how much time and attention you pay to them, they are NOT physically mature enough to cope with Texas heat. 

I know someone with "outdoor" dogs- they live in the horse barn, they have plenty of human attention, they are both housetrained, they both know how to live in a house and when the weather is so cold they can't safely stay in one of the horse stalls (which are of course, dry and sheltered to begin with), they stay in the barn office with a wall heater going. So, given the right set up and sufficient attention, an ADULT dog I think can live "outside" but not a puppy.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

pugmom said:


> With the right owner I believe APBTs can live a great life as outdoor dogs...I have many friends in the APBT community that have dogs out mostly 24/7
> 
> Granted they are working dogs that get 2 days a week of hard core training...ie..schutzhund, tracking, OB ...and the other days lighter exercise ...like flirt pole, spring pole , walks
> 
> ...


I think I'm jaded because I wish everything you said is for anyone with outside dogs but it's not (in most cases)


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Shell said:


> These are 6-7 week old puppies though! And he is talking about having them outside from age 8 weeks and on. I don't care how much time and attention you pay to them, they are NOT physically mature enough to cope with Texas heat.
> 
> I know someone with "outdoor" dogs- they live in the horse barn, they have plenty of human attention, they are both housetrained, they both know how to live in a house and when the weather is so cold they can't safely stay in one of the horse stalls (which are of course, dry and sheltered to begin with), they stay in the barn office with a wall heater going. So, given the right set up and sufficient attention, an ADULT dog I think can live "outside" but not a puppy.


Good thing I never advised the OP to put 8 week old puppies outside in TX heat ....slow down and reread my post

I was advising that not all dogs that live outside 24/7 are just thrown in the backyard....it can be done properly 
and if done properly then I have no issues with outdoor dogs


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I know overall what you were trying to say, but since you ended the post with "if your ready to step up to this kind of ownership...*then I'm all for it*" there was no indication that you realized the dogs with very young or, since it wasn't pointed out if you were giving the "all for it" to adult dogs only that the original poster would read it as "well, shucks, all I gotta do is give them a dog house and play with them some and they'll be okay"

I am not disagreeing that an adult dog _can_ live a good life outside but I agree with Marie that the likelyhood of this happening is low overall and far, far lower with an owner who is looking to chuck two small puppies outside.


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

Personally I think there are few scenarios in which a outside ONLY Pit Bull is okay. I think the breed for the most part needs a lot of human attention... so if you live on a farm or spend the majority of your time outside, and you're willing to make the outside environment very comfortable for the dog... then when the dogs are ADULTS I guess it would be okay. There is a farm down the road from us that has always kept their dog outside (they will bring her in for severe weather, cold or hot), but it is a farm and there are people outside with the dog from 5am until dark every...single..day! It is also not a pit bull. 

I took my Pit Bull out for a walk today (a short half mile walk, in the shade) and he overheated fast. I live in NY and it was 90 degrees out. Perhaps all individual Pit Bulls are different, but my dog is in great shape and he definitely can't tolerate heat... He does spend a lot of time outside, but if its hot out he has a kiddie pool that I fill with fresh cold water every day. He will play, go jump in the pool and cool off, back to playing, etc. He is even worse in the cold weather. If it is below 50 he has no interest in being outside, and he is under the covers, pressed against me, all night on winter nights. He seems to be most comfortable between 60-75 degrees. Just doesn't seem to me like a breed that should live outside, although a lot of people obviously do it.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

This is so sad. So so sad.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I want to ask a sincere question of the original poster, because I know that he has said these are his first dogs, so he might have some misconceptions about dogs that makes him think he should keep them outside.

WHY do you want to have your dogs as outside dogs? Are you worried about keeping the house clean? Do you have a farm or ranch? Do you have a landlord that won't let you keep dogs inside? Basically, what thought process went into the decision that your two new pups should live apart from you?

I hope the poster returns to read all these comments and think about what is best for his dogs.


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## Sparrow (Jul 17, 2011)

While I can't poo-poo outdoor dogs. I live on a big farm & I have working dogs. My Great Pyrs would look at the insides of the house & then look at me like I was insane... the house gave them the willies. They loved to cuddle with goats, baby calves & chickens. My collie has taken their place & she's brought into the house in wicked winter times & in the wicked part of summer with high humdity. But these dogs get lots of face time with me.

That being said I worry about your 2 pups being out in the yard together. This is the easiest way for unwanted behavior to start. Long ago I sold one of my corgi pups to a woman who took the puppy home & went off to work for 12 HOURS & the pup was unattended & free in her house. I've trianed dogs for years & no matter how hard I tried to lay this out for her she couldn't get it through her head that without a person to say something is okay or not okay to chew on, then he was gonna get into trouble. The same goes with 2 pups loose in the back yard. Digging, barking, chewing on things (please make sure they can't get to the electric stuff like AC units (central air). All these things happen because no one is there to correct, redirect & teach these puppies daily what we want from the pup & to guide them into the good stuff. If fido decides to try to get into the nice cool house where he's been for a week or two, who's there to prevent him from chewing his way back in & YES, as a trainer of 20+ years I have seen dogs do this. If you're not out in the boonies like I am, then you can have nusiance barking issues with your neighbors. And the worst thing is if they dig out & get into mischief... or even if they get out & don't get into mischief... guess who is going to be pointed out as guilty for crimes some other dog might have done? Another issue to consider is making certain your pups are protected from neighborhood kids, adults (who _should_ know better), delivery people, utility people & meter readers. Not all of these folks are dog friendly & might do something toward the pup that starts unwanted behavior. My mother's border collie was sprayed in the face by the gas man & from that point forward he HATED any delivery person or mail man. Fortunately this dog had someone at home who saw what happened so there was no 'he just got mean' response from his humans.

So much can happen in your absence expecially with puppies. Keeping them cool can be as simple as a kiddie pool they can play in & acclimating them to the heat but if putting them outside means you don't go out & do your part because it's too hot... it's a recipe for disaster. 

I've worked with a lot of people & a lot of dogs over the years. I never assume the person is planning to do the wrong thing so I hope you don't take it that I'm making that assumption. In my opinion having a successfully trained dog outside & having a tight bond with that dog is harder than the ones you have in the house. Less work for human  Hopefully some of my rambling will help.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Shell said:


> I know overall what you were trying to say, but since you ended the post with "if your ready to step up to this kind of ownership...*then I'm all for it*" there was no indication that you realized the dogs with very young or, since it wasn't pointed out if you were giving the "all for it" to adult dogs only that the original poster would read it as "well, shucks, all I gotta do is give them a dog house and play with them some and they'll be okay"
> 
> I am not disagreeing that an adult dog _can_ live a good life outside but I agree with Marie that the likelyhood of this happening is low overall and far, far lower with an owner who is looking to chuck two small puppies outside.


Look I'm not going to get into a war of smantics with you....can infer what you like about what wasn't in my post....I don't know the OP or his dogs...I nor you can say the op is going to chuck two small puppies outside...(I see that the dramatics are about to start flying ) ...they are here trying to get info on how to have outdoor dogs.....I gave a reasonable look into what a good outside dog set up is going to be like 

And I disagree that the likelyhood is low....the OP is here asking for advice trying to learn...that seems like someone who cares enough to be educated about the right way to care for their dogs


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Again I would disagree with the idea that just because a dog is an outside dog that it is unsocialized and untrained. My dog (an outdoor dog) was the best dog in the class and literally leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the class. No, she didn't work well with other people (she got silly and just wanted a belly rub) but she worked extremely well as soon as I would grab the leash or give her a command.
> 
> I also think it is silly to think that just because someone has an outside dog that they want protection. I wouldn't even say that *most* people with an outside dog got it for protection. I also was raised with and have known many people who just feel that big dogs are meant to be outside, and little dogs don't do a job that they would need and even though little dogs are cute, they are notorious for yapping and they are fragile.


I agree. For some reason everyone here thinks if the dog isn't in the house you're not a good owner. With that said, a lot of people with outside dogs aren't, but that doesn't mean no one is.



luvntzus said:


> I didn't post it because I think they're "scary dogs". I'm not scared of most Pit Bulls. It depends on the individual dog. If you read my post I was actually discouraging using that breed as a guard. Mom24doggies is right. I asked because quite a lot of people get Pit Bulls as guard dogs.


I said scary dog as in dogs that most people are scared of. And I guess its just me but I find it rude when the first thing someone thinks when they hear Pit Bull, Rottie, Dobie, ect; (and the owner isnt up to your standards) is "oh it must be a guard dog". I always get "did you get him to be a guard dog" from people about Porter and it drives me nuts!


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

Prior to last Thursday my dog has been an indoor/outdoor dog. I'm hesitant to say primarily outdoor. She's spent the majority of her days and plenty of nights in my parent's dog run (which is about 25' x 10'). However she's never had an issue going from inside to outside and vice verse.

I attribute that to a few things. One of which is for the first 6 or so months I owned her she was NEVER put outside unsupervised. She was crate trained and potty trained and taught basic obedience (well what obedience a 16 year old first time dog owner could teach). Then after that even though she spent the day outside while I was at school she always had attention when I got home.

When I went off to college she spent even more time outside but still never lost her basics (with the exception of a few accidents). She's now a 100% indoor dog and has had no issues with that transition.


So basically like a few other posters have said. It can be done but you have to be willing do do it right. IMO a dog that young will not do well put outside, I would wait longer and work on training. I also would NEVER put two dogs outside together unsupervised for extended periods of time. Especially not a breed who has a potential to become dog aggressive... even if they're being raised together. Also for emphasis... you have to be willing to put in the work and spend time with your outdoor dog to make it work.


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

In response to all of the posts... The pups are 7 weeks old now... I understand that may be too early to put them outside, but I do plan on them at some point being outside dogs. My wife and I both work full time during the day M - F. The dogs will be locked up in a pen inside from about 6am to about 3:30pm. Don't see how being stuck in a pen inside the house 5 days a week is better than being free in a big back yard... 

As far as the whole, "Guard Dog" question goes, NO they will not be Guard Dogs. We live in Mansfield, the last thing we have to worry about is crime. Secondly, how would 2 dogs in the BACK YARD stop someone from braking into a home with no one in it? That's the whole reason I didn't say I want to put my Pits outside, most people rush to judgement and think that simply because we bought a pit bull that we need it to be tough. 

And why buy a dog just to throw it out back??? Didn't know it was crime or inhumane thing to have your dog live outside in the backyard. And as far as the dog being forgotten about. I go jogging around a 3 mile trial here in Mansfield 4 to 5 days a week, as well as spending time outside with my 4 and 6 year old daughters most evenings, watching them ride bikes or drive their hot wheel car. I wanted a dog, we ended up getting 2 of them, so that my kids and I can play with the dog in the evenings when we are outside, and I also plan on taking them with me to the trail. 

I do love the way though that everyone assumes that I simply plan to put my dogs outside and forget about them.... In my attempt to be a responsible pet owner and seek out information and advice from other pet owners on an online forum, I seem to only have run into a bunch of people that are more eager to negatively comment and immediately assume that I plan to be a lazy and irresponsible pet owner...


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TStafford said:


> I agree. For some reason everyone here thinks if the dog isn't in the house you're not a good owner. With that said, a lot of people with outside dogs aren't, but that doesn't mean no one is.


Which "everyone here?" I've seen a few people who don't think dogs should be kept outside at all, and a number of people who stated that it CAN work, but it does require a commitment and extra work on the part of the owner to be successful. My "take" on it is two untrained pit bull littermates left outside to train themselves and each other is going to be, in many (most?) cases, a recipe for failure or disaster. If the owner expects them to be unhousetrained still at 6 months, I'm guessing there isn't a lot of quality training going on there.


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

Shell said:


> I want to ask a sincere question of the original poster, because I know that he has said these are his first dogs, so he might have some misconceptions about dogs that makes him think he should keep them outside.
> 
> WHY do you want to have your dogs as outside dogs? Are you worried about keeping the house clean? Do you have a farm or ranch? Do you have a landlord that won't let you keep dogs inside? Basically, what thought process went into the decision that your two new pups should live apart from you?
> 
> I hope the poster returns to read all these comments and think about what is best for his dogs.


We have no issues or concerns that have made me think that the dogs should live outside. We have a nice sized house with an even nicer sized backyard. My MAIN and pretty much only reason for wanting them to live outside is because my wife and I both work full time M through F. I don't see how having them locked up in a pen all day is going to be fair to them. We plan on playing with the dogs daily, and already have information on a good trainer that we plan to take them to once they have been fully vaccinated. Not only for training, but to be socialized. That's also the reason I plan to take them to the trail with me. 

I do understand that they may be too young to be outside right now. After reading these posts and remembering what I was told by my Vet, they will more than likely stay inside 100% until they are fully vaccinated.



Pawzk9 said:


> Which "everyone here?" I've seen a few people who don't think dogs should be kept outside at all, and a number of people who stated that it CAN work, but it does require a commitment and extra work on the part of the owner to be successful. My "take" on it is two untrained pit bull littermates left outside to train themselves and each other is going to be, in many (most?) cases, a recipe for failure or disaster. If the owner expects them to be unhousetrained still at 6 months, I'm guessing there isn't a lot of quality training going on there.


The dogs are currently being house trained and are actually doing pretty good. But if they were living outside for 6 months long, would they still be house trained when I brought them back in? Also, that comment was made before I knew it was possible for the dogs to stay outside in the cold...

Being, "ignorant", simply means, "lacking knowledge". I may be ignorant of how to PERFECTLY care for a dog, but that does not automatically make me a lazy and bad owner. Didn't know that not being a DOG EXPERT and seeking out advice was such a horrible thing to do!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> We have no issues or concerns that have made me think that the dogs should live outside. We have a nice sized house with an even nicer sized backyard. My MAIN and pretty much only reason for wanting them to live outside is because my wife and I both work full time M through F. I don't see how having them locked up in a pen all day is going to be fair to them. We plan on playing with the dogs daily, and already have information on a good trainer that we plan to take them to once they have been fully vaccinated. Not only for training, but to be socialized. That's also the reason I plan to take them to the trail with me.
> 
> I do understand that they may be too young to be outside right now. After reading these posts and remembering what I was told by my Vet, they will more than likely stay inside 100% until they are fully vaccinated.
> 
> ...


I understand that you are feeling a bit picked on, and I'm sorry for that. You have to understand that when you ask for advice, people will give it, and it may not be what you want to hear. But that doesn't necessarily make it wrong or mean they think you are lazy and a bad owner, etc. As I see it, the problem with leaving two adolescent male dogs (of any breed, but terriers even more so than some breeds) is that it takes you out of the training picture. They have all the things they need and they don't need you for much of anything. They train each other, and when dogs train dogs (especially when they are the same age - and both young) they generally learn things we would rather they didn't. They may (and probably will) learn to bark at everything that moves or makes a sound (which goes over really big in a nice surburban neighborhood), they may learn to dig, to tear up fencing, to damage lawn furniture or the house itself. They may learn to critter and kill anything that gets into the yard. They may get loose and since you're not around, you'd have no way of knowing. Kids can tease them and you won't know, because you aren't there. Additionally, when one gets littermate puppies, there are a great many issues which can be involved in just that (google littermate syndrome). Add to that fact that you have two males of a breed that is well-known for same sex and other dog aggression. I have a student with two of the loveliest and sweetest pit bulls I've met (male and female, NOT littermates) and we have to work on keeping their level of arousal low enough when they are playing that someone doesn't get ticked off by an accidently hard mouthing or body slam. If it does happen (and it's more likely to happen outside than inside) at least it is quickly diffused because their owner is RIGHT THERE to interrupt.
The thing is, just because your dogs are outside while you are gone (which, again, I don't recommend) doesn't mean they have to be outside when you are home. Most dogs who are house trained when young keep those skills, even when they spend a lot of time outside


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> Add to that fact that you have two males of a breed that is well-known for same sex and other dog aggression. I have a student with two of the loveliest and sweetest pit bulls I've met (male and female, NOT littermates) and we have to work on keeping their level of arousal low enough when they are playing that someone doesn't get ticked off by an accidently hard mouthing or body slam.


Does the fact that they are both female change anything at all?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Does the fact that they are both female change anything at all?


that makes it worse. same sex aggression is often more vicious when dealing with bitches.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Does the fact that they are both female change anything at all?


Well, it makes the situation slightly more dangerous. There's nothing in the world much worse than "bitch wars"


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## Britt & Bello (Apr 14, 2011)

I see nothing wrong with making them outside dogs (once they are dogs, not puppies). And I understand the logic behind keeping them outside while at work. But, and I'm not trying to be rude, just curious, why not allow them to be inside dogs when you are home? 

Yes, same sex aggression is worse in females. And terriers makes it more likely. But of course that doesn't mean it will happen. It just means it is something to be aware of as a possibility and you could come home to an injured dog if the two are allowed to be together alone. Just pay more attention to their behavior towards each other as they mature. I personally would probably be considered a risk taker on here because I let my 15 pound dog (female), 50 pound dog (male) and four cats all have free roam of the house with each other all though no one is home.


ETA: And I wanna see pictures of the puppies.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

A lot of people have their dogs outside while they're at work. Doesn't mean they can't be inside with you when you're home.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm also wondering why they can't be indoors when you're home and sleep in the house with the family.


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

luvntzus said:


> I'm also wondering why they can't be indoors when you're home and sleep in the house with the family.


Didn't know if it was possible to still have them fully house trained if they will be spending so much time outside, about 9 1/2 hours a day. Considering that they would be eliminating whenever and wherever they wanted.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Personally I'd probably keep them inside and crated/kenneled/confined (whatever you're doing now) until they're potty trained (and old enough to handle the heat and stay outside alone without killing themselves). They really shouldn't be unattended at this point so you might as well make the most of it and get them trained.

And, yeah, you can potty train them even if they spend a lot of time outside. They can learn the difference between outside and inside. It might take longer (or not. Depends on the dogs), but they can learn.


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

Britt & Bello said:


> And I wanna see pictures of the puppies.


This is a pic of them the first morning after we got them, they look a bit bigger than they actually are in this pic because I zoomed in on them. 










Here is a cute vid I took on one of their trips out back.

http://s333.photobucket.com/albums/m374/lazcanov/?action=view&current=5056cd72.mp4


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## Britt & Bello (Apr 14, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Didn't know if it was possible to still have them fully house trained if they will be spending so much time outside, about 9 1/2 hours a day. Considering that they would be eliminating whenever and wherever they wanted.


I know it is possible. One of my neighbors has an outdoor golden retrieve though, when they go the lake and stay at the condo (and they bring her) she sleeps indoors with them. She even lets them know when she needs to go out. She was potty trained, just lives primarly outdoors. And she was potty trained seven years ago, and still remembers her training on those occasions they let her come in.

Haha. I love the video with her and the ball. I have a feeling she gets much bigger and that ball is a goner. They are both adorable.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Have you considered a doggie door to a securely fenced/padlocked gated backyard? You can put an ex-pen in front of the doggie door to contain them in a certain area if need when unsupervised. Then let them be in with you when you can supervise.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Didn't know if it was possible to still have them fully house trained if they will be spending so much time outside, about 9 1/2 hours a day. Considering that they would be eliminating whenever and wherever they wanted.


Definitely possible. Especially if they are in separate kennels (like the 10x6 kind) during the day outside since once housetrained, they will likely treat the whole kennel as their "house". I would suggest a doggie door but in the case of 2 female pit bulls, I think it is better to keep them separate from each other when you are not supervising. So crated (which isn't cruel btw), in kennels, or each in their own room in the house (an adult dog can often be fine for 9 hours a day inside, many people work and their dogs stay in the house).

As an aside, a lot of the more "upset" comments, including mine were based mostly on a)the possibility of puppies being outside 24/7 and b) not having the information you posted later about being outside a lot yourself and being willing to take them inside at night. Dogs kept outside strictly during the day while the owner is at work aren't usually considered "outside" dogs in the sense that you worry about the nighttime weather and of course, they get plenty of bonding time since the only time they are outside is when the owner is gone anyway.

There's a thread or two somewhere that show's Nekomi's outdoor set-up which is great and secure and RonE's shaded kennel area with a stock tank for swimming. Making sure the kennel is both safe for the dogs AND safe from humans is important, even if the area you live in is low crime, unfortunately dogs (particularly pit bulls) are a theft target.


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Does the fact that they are both female change anything at all?


Yes, as others said, makes it worse. Not to mention, you don't know how a dog will end up behaving with other dogs until they reach adulthood (2 years). We had 3 females in the same house, loose in the house all day with a dog door out to a fenced in yard. Now we have 2 dogs in the house, and 1 in the basement with a dog door to a fenced in yard. The one dog, who grew up with the other 2, became severely dog aggressive at adulthood. She was properly socialized and trained, it just happens sometimes (genetic). Her and one of the other would get into fights, and she would pick the other dog up by the neck and shake and draw blood (obviously we didn't let this happen more than once before taking the steps to getting her separate living space). We have multiple pictures of these same two dogs cuddling on the couch, playing together, etc. She will attack any female dog she is near. I agree with other posters that leaving them unattended that long at a young age will allow them to train each other.



TEXAS MADE said:


> Didn't know if it was possible to still have them fully house trained if they will be spending so much time outside, about 9 1/2 hours a day. Considering that they would be eliminating whenever and wherever they wanted.


Yes it definitely is. They shouldn't be outside yet at that age unattended anyways, so get working on that potty training! 

I'm still going to say I don't think Pit Bulls are very tolerant of heat. If you do decide to leave them alone unattended while you're at work, please wait until they are at least 6 months old or so. Be prepared to deal if your dogs end up not being able to be left alone together. I'd be nervous to leave 2 Pit Bulls unattended for extended periods of time. Honestly, depending on the temperature where you live, they may be happier inside than outside. I'd be willing to bet that if most people set up a camera during the day when you're not around, dogs are not going to be playing together. They probably will sleep, especially if they are hot. 

I'd make that 3 mile jog 7 days a week, and outside with the kids every night. Pit Bulls need a lot of interaction, exercise, and training. Also be aware that many of them are excellent escape artists. 

I'm not trying to be mean or condescending, just trying to give you information that I have learned, both through reading and personal experience, about Pit Bulls. Having multiple dogs can frequently turn into a stressful situation. Add the breed and that they are the same sex... you're taking a gamble here. If you're going to make this work, I'd recommend A LOT of structured exercise (just because they are in a yard doesn't mean they are exercising, like I said they''ll probably get bored and sleep when you're not around), a lot of training and socialization, and caution.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

> I'd make that 3 mile jog 7 days a week, and outside with the kids every night. Pit Bulls need a lot of interaction, exercise, and training. Also be aware that many of them are excellent escape artists.


But wait on that jogging until the dogs are full grown. If it is a dirt trail, that is better for their joints and you could start on shorter jogs (1-2 miles) a little younger (but still wait till about 10-12 months) then if you are running on pavement. Until the growth plates are closed, the impact of "forced" running, particularly on concrete or asphalt, can damage their growing joints and bones. By "forced" running, I mean on a leash with repetitive motion (straight line) as compared to "free" running like in a yard or dog park while chasing a ball or another dog. Letting them run around at their own pace and their own motions on grass and dirt is great and far lower impact. 

Many dogs can climb chain link fencing. I had a neighbor PUG! that kept climbing over my 4 ft chain link that was only stopped when I added 4 additional feet of wire mesh fencing that I re-curved back towards the neighbor's yard (think like the top curve of commercial security fencing). Aside from the need for shade, you should probably have a cover (like the sun shade fabric mesh covers) over any outdoor kennel. And bury wire mesh at the bottom to prevent digging out. I would set your kennels or dog run back from your yard fencing (unless it is no-gap privacy fencing) by several feet to keep kids from sticking their hands into the kennels or tossing "treats" to the dogs. 

Yeah, the heat thing is probably worse than the cold. An insulated dog house with proper bedding can keep a dog warm even in freezing temps but there is only so much (other than inside air conditioning) that can cool them off. It was recently 97-98 degrees here with a heat index of 120+ (humidity) and my adult dog (who is fit and healthy) was panting hard and lethargic after about 10 minutes outside on my covered, concrete (so cool to the touch) porch with a bowl of water. I was sitting there with him and watching him and we then went inside to the A/C. In that kind of weather, a dog outside in a kennel has no one there to rescue him when he starts to overheat. On the other hand, my dog will happily spend hours outside hiking in the snow and he does okay inside a horse stall (so, out of the wind and dry, but no heat) down to about 30 degrees (he'll spend a few hours there while I ride, only during the day).


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Just a quickie reply, what people here are saying is that somewhere in between the 2 pups becoming serial killers or ministers is where it's possible your pups will end up as. The variables are never ending so by being made aware of possible problems ahead of time is the best way to be prepared.

It's possible when older they could go over/under/through your fencing and run amok wrecking and pillaging the area. 

Or they could just fall asleep when you leave in the morning and wake up only to dump/pee and drink water and go back to sleep until you and wife get home every day. (wouldn't that be wonderful) In real life though your 2 dogs will be somewhere between those 2 mentioned extremes. Good luck.


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Again I would disagree with the idea that just because a dog is an outside dog that it is unsocialized and untrained. My dog (an outdoor dog) was the best dog in the class and literally leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the class. No, she didn't work well with other people (she got silly and just wanted a belly rub) but she worked extremely well as soon as I would grab the leash or give her a command.
> 
> I also think it is silly to think that just because someone has an outside dog that they want protection. I wouldn't even say that *most* people with an outside dog got it for protection. I also was raised with and have known many people who just feel that big dogs are meant to be outside, and little dogs don't do a job that they would need and even though little dogs are cute, they are notorious for yapping and they are fragile.


A lot of that seems to be outdated and regularly disproven concepts. If the people are regularly outside- interact- and still walk and do things others with their dogs then yes the dog "can" be fine- but that is often the exception rather then the standard as most people tend to forget their dogs outside. Outside dogs are the most likely to be reactive, have social problems, and as a statistical fact: are the most likely to bite someone.


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

Bones said:


> A lot of that seems to be outdated and regularly disproven concepts. If the people are regularly outside- interact- and still walk and do things others with their dogs then yes the dog "can" be fine- but that is often the exception rather then the standard as most people tend to forget their dogs outside. Outside dogs are the most likely to be reactive, have social problems, and as a statistical fact: are the most likely to bite someone.


We were supposed to only buy one dog. Unfortunately the wife decided she wanted 2 of them so we now have 2. I am the primary care taker of both of the dogs though. And my reason for wanting a dog was BECAUSE we are an active family. We spend many evenings outside, our daughters are 4 and 6 years old, so our outside time is not going to disappear any time soon. Also I go to the park here in town to run on the trail almost daily. My wife and kids accompany me a lot of times, but they end up just sitting around while I do my thing. This would be excellent play time for the dogs, as well as time to be socialized, not to mention I also plan take them with me on my jogs.


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## joe_g (Jun 29, 2011)

How will your dogs ever look up to you as a pack leader if they spend all their time away from you? Dogs are social creatures that want to be around you as much as they can. They don't like being separated from their pack. Puppies that young are developing their personalities and behaviors that will likely carry through their whole lives. Leaving them alone outside will likely have a very negative impact on their socialization. Not only that but it's dangerous to leave two puppies alone in your yard...


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

I recommend constructing 2 separate dog runs outside and leave them there during the day. That way they can run around but are safe from one another in case a squabble happens. PLUS safe from anyone who might try to harm them by throwing poison over a fence or something.

Let them inside when you get home.

Plenty of dogs are housetrained and still live in this type of situation.


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

I think it's a bad idea to get littermates, especially females and especially Pit Bulls. Here's an article below that I would read if I were you. I would never leave the girls alone together once they start to get a little older. I've personally seen dogs exhibiting littermate syndrome from working at vet's offices and animal shelters. The dogs become unable to function without each other.

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/siblings.shtml


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## joe_g (Jun 29, 2011)

luvntzus said:


> I think it's a bad idea to get littermates, especially females and especially Pit Bulls. Here's an article below that I would read if I were you. I would never leave the girls alone together once they start to get a little older. I've personally seen dogs exhibiting littermate syndrome from working at vet's offices and animal shelters. The dogs become unable to function without each other.
> 
> http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/siblings.shtml


This is actually a good point but for another reason too. Dogs from the same litter who grow up together will tend to be more likely to attempt to dominate one another. Especially two males or two females. If left alone for long periods of time they may become aggressive with one another.


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

As long as you house train them FIRST they should stay house trained whether or not they stay outside. BUT unless they're allowed inside enough to be able to remember that inside means no potty they'll lose that training... just like any other skill.. use it or lose it.

I also highly suggest getting a secure dog kennel. One per dog actually. It'll be an extra barrier against escape from the yard and protection in case something were to get into the yard and as has already been well established... two female dogs together... especially Pits... big no no. Your also going to want to reinforce the bottom AND top of each kennel because Pits can be diggers and they can be climbers... if you don't believe me I'm sure Zim and I can give you enough examples from youtube of Pits jumping and climbing fences.

Edit to add...

Dogs sleep a good amount of the day. Chances are if you crated them during the day they wouldn't care any more than if they were penned outside as long as they get a fair amount of exercise before and after work. My dog spent 8 hours in her crate today while I was at work. You'd think she'd be full of energy and bouncing off the walls but she's sleeping in a patch of sun on the living room floor.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

not fences...but this should give you an idea...


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> We were supposed to only buy one dog. Unfortunately the wife decided she wanted 2 of them so we now have 2. I am the primary care taker of both of the dogs though. And my reason for wanting a dog was BECAUSE we are an active family. We spend many evenings outside, our daughters are 4 and 6 years old, so our outside time is not going to disappear any time soon. Also I go to the park here in town to run on the trail almost daily. My wife and kids accompany me a lot of times, but they end up just sitting around while I do my thing. This would be excellent play time for the dogs, as well as time to be socialized, not to mention I also plan take them with me on my jogs.


Just want to reiterate what a previous poster said... make sure you wait until they are older to jog with you! 

Perhaps you can make the outdoor work for your dogs as far as proper socialization needs, but keep in mind what people are saying about 2 female Pit Bulls together alone, the heat, and about them being good escape artists!

BTW the puppies are super cute


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## KuroSaya (Jun 3, 2011)

Cute pups. Bella my boxer can jump pretty high about 5 feet I believe..

Saya and Bella are both females and get a long fine they're coarse not from the same litter, but still..

I wouldn't leave them outside at this age maybe when they're year old I dunno..


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

wvasko said:


> Just a quickie reply, what people here are saying is that somewhere in between the 2 pups becoming serial killers or ministers is where it's possible your pups will end up as. The variables are never ending so by being made aware of possible problems ahead of time is the best way to be prepared.
> 
> It's possible when older they could go over/under/through your fencing and run amok wrecking and pillaging the area.
> 
> Or they could just fall asleep when you leave in the morning and wake up only to dump/pee and drink water and go back to sleep until you and wife get home every day. (wouldn't that be wonderful) In real life though your 2 dogs will be somewhere between those 2 mentioned extremes. Good luck.


Thank You to everyone that has replied to my posts. I understand fully that we live in a society that is plagued with irresponsible parents and pet owners. Therefore, I somewhat am able to understand how the majority of the responses were made by assuming the absolute WORSE. I plan on having my dogs as long as I can, (until they die of old age). The above quote is my favorite reply to out of the whole thread, mainly because it is the most realistic. I am new to the world of pet ownership, but 6 years ago I was also new to parenthood. Have I made some mistakes? Of course I have, but I have learned from them and I believe that I am a great dad. The same applies to our new dogs. I don't know all of the answers, but with enough love, patience, and guidance, I believe that my dogs will be just fine. All of the concerns and issues that have been raised in this thread have helped me see things in a different way. I have learned a lot in the last few days.

I would also like to reiterate the fact that being ignorant is not a crime, especially not when that individual is actively seeking out knowledge. Thanks again for all of the responses, they each have helped in their own way! Anyone else with more advice, feel free to post it, I'd love to hear it!


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Thank You to everyone that has replied to my posts. I understand fully that we live in a society that is plagued with irresponsible parents and pet owners. Therefore, I somewhat am able to understand how the majority of the responses were made by assuming the absolute WORSE. I plan on having my dogs as long as I can, (until they die of old age). The above quote is my favorite reply to out of the whole thread, mainly because it is the most realistic. I am new to the world of pet ownership, but 6 years ago I was also new to parenthood. Have I made some mistakes? Of course I have, but I have learned from them and I believe that I am a great dad. The same applies to our new dogs. I don't know all of the answers, but with enough love, patience, and guidance, I believe that my dogs will be just fine. All of the concerns and issues that have been raised in this thread have helped me see things in a different way. I have learned a lot in the last few days.
> 
> I would also like to reiterate the fact that being ignorant is not a crime, especially not when that individual is actively seeking out knowledge. Thanks again for all of the responses, they each have helped in their own way! Anyone else with more advice, feel free to post it, I'd love to hear it!


Sometimes I wish forums had a "Like" button


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree with everything, mine sty outside during the day, but they come in at night. I live in the country where there are coy's, hogs, & the more nasty skunks :-S. Not to mention snakes & suchlike, we have a large cottonmouth prob here.


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Thank You to everyone that has replied to my posts. I understand fully that we live in a society that is plagued with irresponsible parents and pet owners. Therefore, I somewhat am able to understand how the majority of the responses were made by assuming the absolute WORSE. I plan on having my dogs as long as I can, (until they die of old age). The above quote is my favorite reply to out of the whole thread, mainly because it is the most realistic. I am new to the world of pet ownership, but 6 years ago I was also new to parenthood. Have I made some mistakes? Of course I have, but I have learned from them and I believe that I am a great dad. The same applies to our new dogs. I don't know all of the answers, but with enough love, patience, and guidance, I believe that my dogs will be just fine. All of the concerns and issues that have been raised in this thread have helped me see things in a different way. I have learned a lot in the last few days.
> 
> I would also like to reiterate the fact that being ignorant is not a crime, especially not when that individual is actively seeking out knowledge. Thanks again for all of the responses, they each have helped in their own way! Anyone else with more advice, feel free to post it, I'd love to hear it!


Hey, I don't think you're ignorant at all!! The fact that you came on here and asked questions shows that you want to learn and you care about your pups! I just think that since you are not an experienced dog owner, you need to prepare for the absolute worse scenarios. The thing about Pit Bulls is, they do have a bad reputation in our country, and you as a responsible owner should research the breed, and give them the absolute best chance to be the best they can be (well this is true of any breed). A lot of things that the media and truly ignorant people say about Pit Bulls is false. They love people and probably will be great with your daughters. However, there is a genetic component to Pits being dog aggressive. This does not mean every Pit will be, but they can have a tendency to be. Any two female dogs, Pit or not, will have a higher chance of having issues with one another. I told the story before about my aggressive Boxer, but I did not mention the other two females also get into little fights with each other too. They are Boston Terriers, and the one is the other one's mother. The daughter, when in an excited state, with attack the mother. It never really gets dangerous, but they are 2 small flat faced dogs... I wouldn't want to have to tear 2 Pits apart. 

I would definitely recommend you go to training classes, and maybe talk to some local Pit Bull rescue organizations or responsible Pit Bull owners to gain some additional knowledge about the breed and what to expect. If you're going to keep two female Pits, you want to be prepared. I've read in Pit Bull books and magazines that 2/3 of Pits will exhibit dog aggression at some point. I don't know if I buy this or not, but it seems to be the general idea. The general idea is also that they are rarely human aggressive, and make horrible guard dogs (which you said you don't want anyways, but it is very true of the breed, my Pit would probably try to play with someone breaking into the house). 

You are ahead of the game by seeking knowledge and wanting to be the best you can be! Just really research and do your best, and I know it sounds negative but prepare for the worst. I know I'm going to get yelled at, and I would never be able to do it anyways so don't take it personally, but if you're not attached to both dogs yet, I would recommend maybe finding another home for one of them. If you want two badly, a male/female combo would be way better. And for a first time dog owner, you really might find yourself in over your head with 2 female Pits. But I doubt you want to do this, so keep up the hard work, research, and please go to training classes!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I live in Arlington, just up the street from you. About 4 miles south of I-20 on Cooper St. (157) on the east side of the street is Country Kennel Estates. This is also where the Arlington Humane Society resides. They have a 'private' dog park, and they have puppy and adult dog training classes. Altho the pups are too young and it's too hot now, I recommend that you stop by their office and ask about the classes (on Saturday morning).


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

hanksimon said:


> I live in Arlington, just up the street from you. About 4 miles south of I-20 on Cooper St. (157) on the east side of the street is Country Kennel Estates. This is also where the Arlington Humane Society resides. They have a 'private' dog park, and they have puppy and adult dog training classes. Altho the pups are too young and it's too hot now, I recommend that you stop by their office and ask about the classes (on Saturday morning).


Is Country Kennel Estates the place with the Big White Sign with Blue letters? I think I saw that place the other day. Do you know of any other good trainers in this area? Or would u recommend them? I have been recommended to a place called, gone to the dogs, (www.gonetothedogs1.com). It's off of Harris and Cooper, where that Goodwill Superstore is. Our pups are still not even 8 weeks yet, so we still have plenty of time before we take them anywhere.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

That's the place. I like them for the Puppy Class, and maybe for the Dog Park. I think Lifetime memebrship is $100 - 150, I haven't been in 5 years. I have a little trouble with their use of choke chains in the adult classes. However, I was a trainer there for a few years in the advanced classes, and we didn't use choke chains, because everything was offleash.

Don't know anything about Gone to The Dogs, but I hesitate when people talk about "Being Leaders," because I'm concerned that it may use forced methods. One suggested plan is to sign up for the HUmane Society at Country Kennel for the puppy class and dog park, then go to PetsMart (gentle methods) or Gone to the Dogs for more obedience, then go to Gone to the Dogs, after you have some experience. And, keep up with the Humane Society for socialization and advanced training. It sounds like a lot, but it is probably only an hour or two in the morning on the weekends, until the dogs are 3 - 5 years old... or for as long as you like. Each set of classes is only about $100... they should have a deal for two dogs.


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

hanksimon said:


> That's the place. I like them for the Puppy Class, and maybe for the Dog Park. I think Lifetime memebrship is $100 - 150, I haven't been in 5 years. I have a little trouble with their use of choke chains in the adult classes. However, I was a trainer there for a few years in the advanced classes, and we didn't use choke chains, because everything was offleash.
> 
> Don't know anything about Gone to The Dogs, but I hesitate when people talk about "Being Leaders," because I'm concerned that it may use forced methods. One suggested plan is to sign up for the HUmane Society at Country Kennel for the puppy class and dog park, then go to PetsMart (gentle methods) or Gone to the Dogs for more obedience, then go to Gone to the Dogs, after you have some experience. And, keep up with the Humane Society for socialization and advanced training. It sounds like a lot, but it is probably only an hour or two in the morning on the weekends, until the dogs are 3 - 5 years old... or for as long as you like. Each set of classes is only about $100... they should have a deal for two dogs.


Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to check out Country Kennel.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

TEXAS MADE said:


> Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to check out Country Kennel.


How far are these people from you? http://www.deedscanineconnection.com/index.html Note: I am in no way affliated with these folks, but I know them to be positive reinforcement based and very knowledgable.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

lisak_87 said:


> I recommend constructing 2 separate dog runs outside and leave them there during the day. That way they can run around but are safe from one another in case a squabble happens. PLUS safe from anyone who might try to harm them by throwing poison over a fence or something.
> 
> Let them inside when you get home.
> 
> Plenty of dogs are housetrained and still live in this type of situation.


This is what I have set up. I work M-F and live alone so if I do not get home it is a problem for the dog if the dog is inside. I leave at 6AM and return at 4PM most days. 

I put wire over the top of two 10X10 kennel runs and good dog houses in each run. The runs are well shaded in summer (trees and installed shades) and screened by the house and thick lilac hedges. Dogs are out in their 10X10 runs unless the weather is really bad as in too hot, too cold or too wet or dangerous. My property is fenced. The kennels are installed over welded wire over laid by horse stall mats and I installed welded wire tops over the pens too (no climbing out). 

Right now one dog is in heat so she is in a pen inside on a concrete floor in the walk out basement so she is secure there. I put papers down "in case" but she has been holding it anyway. 

If the weather is bad the dogs are crated inside (separate crates). 

Both dogs are female and they are unrelated.

When I am home the dogs are with me, in the house, out working in the yard or if I go somewhere (well, right now with one being in heat she does not go with me). They are well house trained and being able to go to the bathroom outdoors when I am not home has not hurt their house training at all.


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## katG (Jun 27, 2011)

Elana55 said:


> This is what I have set up. I work M-F and live alone so if I do not get home it is a problem for the dog if the dog is inside. I leave at 6AM and return at 4PM most days.
> 
> I put wire over the top of two 10X10 kennel runs and good dog houses in each run. The runs are well shaded in summer (trees and installed shades) and screened by the house and thick lilac hedges. Dogs are out in their 10X10 runs unless the weather is really bad as in too hot, too cold or too wet or dangerous. My property is fenced. The kennels are installed over welded wire over laid by horse stall mats and I installed welded wire tops over the pens too (no climbing out).
> 
> ...


Wow!!! Its so nice to hear about someone going so far to make their dogs safe and comfortable! I got some good ideas from this. You must have a couple of really happy dogs


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

One thing to consider is storms. If you are in an area like mine where heavy summer lightening storms are common, having the dogs outside surrounded by metal isn't a good idea. Even with a very secure, shaded etc set-up, you'll have to plan ahead for plenty of days where they cannot stay outside. Like Elana has by having the option of crates inside or a pen in the basement.


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## TEXAS MADE (Jul 11, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> How far are these people from you? http://www.deedscanineconnection.com/index.html Note: I am in no way affliated with these folks, but I know them to be positive reinforcement based and very knowledgable.


They are about 45 minutes away. That's not too bad, work itself is 35 minutes 1 way. Thank you for their site, I am going to look into them as well as Country Kennels. The more the merrier, the better our options will be!


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