# Citronella collar?



## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

So... I'm at my wit's end. I've been trying for months to get Cadence to stop picking up crap from the ground and eating it, to no avail. In fact, it's gotten worse. I've tried everything, but the only options are:

1) Never let him off leash, which is totally unfair, IMO, because he needs play time with other dogs, and putting him on a long leash gets in the way.

2) Training him with a collar.

So I went out and got him a remote-control citronella collar today ($150 ). I've watched a couple of videos on how to use it, but... any input?

Should I press the button to spray when he's about to pick something up? Or right when he grabs it?

There's a tone setting on the collar as well.... for positive reinforcement. I don't really know what the point of this is, so if you have any ideas, please to chime in!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

lucidity said:


> So... I'm at my wit's end. I've been trying for months to get Cadence to stop picking up crap from the ground and eating it, to no avail. In fact, it's gotten worse. I've tried everything, but the only options are:
> 
> 1) Never let him off leash, which is totally unfair, IMO, because he needs play time with other dogs, and putting him on a long leash gets in the way.
> 
> ...


First, I've never used a citronella collar, but my only idea is I would probably push the button as soon as he grabs something. It's not against the law to sniff or look at stuff. I would load a warning NRM ("watch it", or "aht aht", etc) before hitting the button for the citronella. This way, he can learn to pair the NRM with getting sprayed if he does what he shouldn't be doing. And, once he learns that, you can more than likely wean him off the collar and rely on the NRM to keep him from picking up stuff he shouldn't.
The PR button? Treat it like a clicker. Load it so he starts to understand that "tone" means food. I would put the collar on, hit the PR tone and treat. Tone, treat. Tone, treat. Tone, treat. If he's thinking about picking something up off the ground, you can give him the NRM, and if he stops, you can hit the tone and he'll know that (because he dropped the trash) he gets a treat. Something really good. This would also work out good for any distance work you want to do (hit the button and watch him come to you at a dead run from across the park. Great way to impress your friends).


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

Ooohh, thanks! That makes sense.. I'm hoping that he'll eventually not need the collar anymore, so sounds like a good idea to warn him first. At first I was thinking maybe I should use the tone as a "warning" that a spray is coming, so eventually I'll only have to sound the tone and he'll drop whatever's in his mouth. Do you think this would work? As opposed to using the tone as a positive reinforcement?

Also, I haven't found anything that's an IRRESISTIBLE treat yet!! Cadence isn't really THAT food motivated  I've tried dried liver, venison, boiled chicken, boiled pork, biscuits, and semi moist treats... but when we're outside and he picks up something like a stick, he'll rather have the stick than treats -_-""


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## yappypappymom (Oct 22, 2009)

I have NO idea how a citronella collar works, BUT, I am super curious - does it help "repel" mosquitos & such? *very curious here*


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## Bart (Jul 15, 2010)

Do teach the "no" command because you cannot teach the dog what you mean simply by giving positive punishment (corrections).

Don't waste your time with spray collars. Get a Dogtra or Tritronics remote collar. I've nicked myself with mine and it's not cruel. My Dogtra goes from level 0 to 127. I cannot even feel 0-24 or so. Levels 25-35 are like a tickle. 36-45 are like static shocks -- my kids get worse on the playground when static builds up going down plastic slides. It's true if you get up to levels 70-127 it's painful, but my dog will respond in the 25-35 level. Picking up sticks and junk on the ground, the dog is in low-drive. He would be easy to pursuade. Using the remote to stop him in a full bore chase of a squirrel would take a little pain -- which is why it's smart to have a different plan for that.

Remote's are great. I use nicks just like a pop on the leash -- there's no difference except the dog can be a lot farther away and I don't have to run over there. I don't use the method of "escape" where you hold the continous button until the dog obeys. I use it just like a leash correction. I know it would work better than citronella and the "torture" (as if it's really that bad) doesn't last as long. It's over in a microsecond.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

lucidity said:


> Ooohh, thanks! That makes sense.. I'm hoping that he'll eventually not need the collar anymore, so sounds like a good idea to warn him first. At first I was thinking maybe I should use the tone as a "warning" that a spray is coming, so eventually I'll only have to sound the tone and he'll drop whatever's in his mouth. Do you think this would work? As opposed to using the tone as a positive reinforcement?
> 
> Also, I haven't found anything that's an IRRESISTIBLE treat yet!! Cadence isn't really THAT food motivated  I've tried dried liver, venison, boiled chicken, boiled pork, biscuits, and semi moist treats... but when we're outside and he picks up something like a stick, he'll rather have the stick than treats -_-""


Will he take the treat, even if he's not over enthusiastic about it? you could always premack it--call him, treat, and then send him BACK to what he was doing in the first place. Most dogs will look at you like "really?! WOW, you are SO COOL!" 
As far as the tone goes, it's 100% neutral to Candance right now. You could charge it to be a reinforcer, an aversive, whatever you want. I actually am in the process of teaching Tag a few new words, and they are 100% neutral to him....for now. I could have taught him that sit means down, down means come, finish means front, front means to to your kennel, etc....it all depends on what YOU want that stimuli to be interpreted as by your dog, and train it that way  
Next large breed puppy I get, I'm going to teach them that "come here!" means sit, and patting my legs is the hand signal for sitting. It will be a great way to keep the inevitable idiots from sabotoging my dogs' training by allowing them to leap up and then say "oh, he's alright!!!" (Can you tell I've been re-reading the Culture Clash?! )


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

yappypappymom said:


> I have NO idea how a citronella collar works, BUT, I am super curious - does it help "repel" mosquitos & such? *very curious here*


LOL! I don't know! But the spray SURE smells a WHOLE LOT like mosquito repellent! -__-""



Bart said:


> Do teach the "no" command because you cannot teach the dog what you mean simply by giving positive punishment (corrections).
> 
> Don't waste your time with spray collars. Get a Dogtra or Tritronics remote collar. I've nicked myself with mine and it's not cruel. My Dogtra goes from level 0 to 127. I cannot even feel 0-24 or so. Levels 25-35 are like a tickle. 36-45 are like static shocks -- my kids get worse on the playground when static builds up going down plastic slides. It's true if you get up to levels 70-127 it's painful, but my dog will respond in the 25-35 level. Picking up sticks and junk on the ground, the dog is in low-drive. He would be easy to pursuade. Using the remote to stop him in a full bore chase of a squirrel would take a little pain -- which is why it's smart to have a different plan for that.
> 
> Remote's are great. I use nicks just like a pop on the leash -- there's no difference except the dog can be a lot farther away and I don't have to run over there. I don't use the method of "escape" where you hold the continous button until the dog obeys. I use it just like a leash correction. I know it would work better than citronella and the "torture" (as if it's really that bad) doesn't last as long. It's over in a microsecond.


I don't feel comfortable using shock collars. I don't have much experience training dogs, and I certainly don't want to ruin my dog's temperament by using a shock collar wrongly.



LazyGRanch713 said:


> Will he take the treat, even if he's not over enthusiastic about it? you could always premack it--call him, treat, and then send him BACK to what he was doing in the first place. Most dogs will look at you like "really?! WOW, you are SO COOL!"
> As far as the tone goes, it's 100% neutral to Candance right now. You could charge it to be a reinforcer, an aversive, whatever you want. I actually am in the process of teaching Tag a few new words, and they are 100% neutral to him....for now. I could have taught him that sit means down, down means come, finish means front, front means to to your kennel, etc....it all depends on what YOU want that stimuli to be interpreted as by your dog, and train it that way
> Next large breed puppy I get, I'm going to teach them that "come here!" means sit, and patting my legs is the hand signal for sitting. It will be a great way to keep the inevitable idiots from sabotoging my dogs' training by allowing them to leap up and then say "oh, he's alright!!!" (Can you tell I've been re-reading the Culture Clash?! )


Lol, unfortunately no  When he's engrossed with chewing whatever interesting thing he's picked up from the ground, he usually ignores me and whatever treat I might have, no matter how yummy!

Haha, I haven't read Culture Clash! I'm going to look into that now 

Anyway, I've been testing the collar out on Cadence, and using the tone as a "warning" instead of a positive reinforcer. This is what I do:

- Cadence picks something up.
- I say "drop it!". If he listens and drops it, I give him a treat. If he doesn't, I go ahead and
- Press the tone button. Sometimes he drops whatever he has when he hears this. If he still ignores me, then I
- Press the spray button. Lol, he HATES the spray SO much. The first time I sprayed him, he rolled around the grass for a good 10 minutes! I've only had to press the spray button 3 times so far, though.. he seems to have caught on. Now when I say "drop it!" he's dropping it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this continues working!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

lucidity said:


> LOL! I don't know! But the spray SURE smells a WHOLE LOT like mosquito repellent! -__-""
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not anti-electronic collar, either. Though, I wouldn't be comfortable using one on either of my papillons unless it was a life threatening situation where management alone would decrease their quality of life. (Management of a dog who wants to chase cars is easy. Fence, or if that's not an option, a leash. Management for dogs who want to bite and kill poisonous snakes, or have serious pica, isn't so cut and dry). 
I've never been brave enough to try the stim on myself, but I know a well made e-collar has many settings and can be a great training aid when properly used...UNDER supervision of someone who knows what they're doing. An e-collar, a choke collar, a prong, a leash, a pillow, a car, a match, are ALL things that can hurt or kill if the user has no idea what they're doing.
If he'll take treats eventually, I would call him off before he picks up and starts chewing on whatever he finds. Calling them away before they get engrossed and calling them away after they've been chewing for 5 seconds is the difference. 
I used to think my timing was pretty good. UNTIL last night at Rally. Holy $*@&!! We were horrible.


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## Sarahdipity (Jul 12, 2010)

yappypappymom said:


> I have NO idea how a citronella collar works, BUT, I am super curious - does it help "repel" mosquitos & such? *very curious here*


I work at a dog daycare and we use a citronella spray to break up dog fights if needed. From what I understand, dogs HATE the smell of citronella. The reason the citronella collars are effective is because its 1.) stinky (to many dogs - not all) 2.) the element of surprise. Getting a burst of strong smelling spray to the facial area would shock anybody! 
A common reaction in daycare if it gets sprayed is sneezing and trying to get it off by rolling.


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