# My puppy is no problem. why is that?



## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Hi!

The post about someone wanting to adopt a herd breed in her apt. got me to thinking on this topic.

I'm attempting to help some new potential dog owners have a good experience like I am having with my new puppy. My puppy has never been on a leash, has never been outdoors for a walk, has never been groomed, or trained at all.

Basically, I have had my puppy for 6 days and would like to report that this experience has been almost 'too easy' with our malti-poo.

The puppy seems to be training himself. If anything I've been doing a poor job training the puppy as far as feeding schedule goes and such yet he's holding it in and waiting for us to go in the yard.

Here is some of the positive things the puppy does:

-UPDATE: Now is fully crate trained after only 5 days in crate!
-No biting
-No barking
-No shedding and poo and pee barely smell at all.
-Leash trained after 4 sessions with no real training from me. First day lots of jumping and whaling and he just figured it out himself.
-Amazingly knows the difference between a toy and what is not. Never chews wires, furniture, shoes, etc.
-Groom/bath trained after 2 tries. We can hold his paws, shave his face. etc.
-6-7 minutes of whining after being put in crate for night. This is with no real crate training. Simply putting him the crate downstairs. Not even near our bed or such.
-Gets along with cat. Was a bit scared at first.
-Litter trained with almost no real litter training and my shotty timings.
-Learned how to sit and stay without us actually training him how to do it.
-Not underfoot anymore. Resolved after 3 days and after mysellf and wife stepping on him by accident twice he keeps a foot away and now he will stay in a close by room himself.
-Trained himself how to walk up and down stairs. No training needed.

Basically we're having a very, very easy time with this puppy and I would like to know why this has been so easy for us, when other friends of ours are almost dying with their new puppies.

Here's how we decided to choose our puppy. 

1. I chose a breed that was not geared for a specific task like hearding or had large energy requirements becuase I live in a city.
2. We wanted an intelligent breed that is easy to train (poodle).
3. We wanted a white puppy. Bichon, poodle, maltese or any mix etc. The reason is so we can ensure it has purebread lines and like the look.
4. We decided to get a male because we read several times that they are more calm with temperment than females.
5. We decided to make size a non-issue becuase we read countless people complaining about the temperments of modern toys and teacups.
6. We wanted to ask the breeder which they fealt had the best temperment rather than getting puppy love for a particular puppy or choosing based off size/sex. 

I read that the best pups of the litter are often the last one that is left. That was our pup. The price was heavily reduced and we got him for $375 cash. 

The breeder said that people wanted the other pup's because they were female or the smallest. We got the biggest boy and his coat is more poodlish than maltese . The breeder told us that people usually picked the most hyper, female, and smallest pups. She said that its always like that.

We gladly took our puppy for a great price and he's been NO PROBLEM. *TOO EASY*. I've barely been doing anything to train him. We're amazed he does so well considering it's been 6 days and he's never had even a leash on or a groom. He's like this model puppy and has been no problem at all.

I wanted to ask those experienced owners if our choosing criterea has anything to do with why it's going so well for us? 

Thanks!


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Er...you chose your puppy based on its behavior. Of course that has something to do with the fact that you like it's behavior.

I would say the most likely reason for the easy time you're having, though, is that you're only on day 6. You have roughly 5,475 days for things to go wrong.

Good luck!


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Usually if the dog is shy-er they tend to stay much more quiet and controlled. However, lots of people here end up with very very feisty brave puppies that are all over the place.

For example, Nia was a very easy puppy. Basically potty trained at 5 months old and she doesn't chew too much. She never bit or screamed when we crated her or anything like that.

Popcorn on the other hand is the most naughty badly behaved puppy in the world. He'll constantly bite, chew, howl, scream, pee, poo, demand attention, etc. etc. It really depends on your dog's personality.

But you should wait another 6 months before coming back to tell us that your puppy was easy. Most people start to find it's a harder job than they thought after a few weeks. For example, Popcorn didn't start biting until 2 weeks after he came to us. Didn't start chewing everything until 2 months later.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

As the 7th Cavalry was riding toward the Little Big Horn, Gen. George C. Custer was overheard complaining about having to be on "another boring-a** patrol" and wishing for a worthy enemy who wasn't "too damned cowardly" to give him a decent fight.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Cracker was an easy puppy too. Took little time to housetrain, didn't bark or chew inappropriately. I got her at 4 1/2 months, she's a rescue (see pic, first week I had her) then the poo eating started...then she hit 6 months and the anxiety issues started up. Then she hit seven months and her prey drive kicked in. 









Puppies vary and temperament varies. You did a great job deciding what you wanted and how to find it. But you still won't know the true personality of your pup until he starts truly settling in and then starts hitting his developmental milestones. You may STILL be lucky and he may be easy peasy and if so, that is GREAT. But none of this is truly normal puppy behaviour and I do hope that you continue to be optimistic but also be realistic in making sure that you are prepared that this MAY change at any time. There are going to be a lot of changes that go on physically and chemically in his body and in his brain and this will effect his behaviour at different stages. 

Good luck and keep up the good work!


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

Dogs vary widely. We have raised 19 puppies for service dog schools. Some of them were quite easy and others a real challenge. Once you gave Daisy a couple of corrections and she identified the behavior, she never did it again even when you weren't watching. After a correction, Nugget might go several minutes before he did it again.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Cracker said:


> Good luck and keep up the good work!


Thanks!

I hope I get real lucky and things keep running this smooth. 

We got chinese food tonight and he didn't beg for any food. He never does. I fried up a lot of bacon in the kitchen (I like to get it on sale at walmart, fry it up, then cut it into real bacon bits and store it in the freezer to use for pizza toppings).

The dog knew there was something good cooking but never begged or tried to jump on the counter.

Right now he's quietly on the floor in my den chewing at a milk bone in my den. There are tons of wires, wii, xbox, and other goodies for him to chew on. 

I forogot to mention that when it comes to our sofa's, I told him 'NO!' twice to not jump on our sofa's and that's that. He doesn't try to get on the sofa's and will only stay on the floors (we have those white Ikea thin fabric sofas).

Oh and one last thing. Ok... we keep our garbage containers in our garage so we frequently have to open our interior door to our garage to throw out garbage. In maybe 4-5 openings over 2 days it's funny.. when we approach the door he'll just sit down. Then we say 'GOOD BOY!' after we throw out the garbage. We can leave the door open and he wont run into the garage. And we never even really taught him how to sit! I went and got a step ladder and had the door open for 40 seconds or so and was out of his site and he stayed there. 

This is all from a 3 month old puppy that we got 6 days ago that never got any training.

I have a friend who is *DYING* with her siberian husky. She bought it CKC registered too. She lives in a small town house unit with barely any yard.

Myself I'm having a great experience. I'm really lucky so far I guess


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Early puppy socialization by the breeder can help A LOT. Getting them used to strange smells/sounds/sights and basically making them more 'adaptable' to change and such is something that can start from the day they are born, basically.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> As the 7th Cavalry was riding toward the Little Big Horn, Gen. George C. Custer was overheard complaining about having to be on "another boring-a** patrol" and wishing for a worthy enemy who wasn't "too damned cowardly" to give him a decent fight.


Don't question good things?

Don't look a gift-horse in the mouth?

Don't jinx yourself?

Be careful what you wish for?

Any of those the moral of that scenario? 



Michiyo-Fir said:


> Usually if the dog is shy-er they tend to stay much more quiet and controlled.


Certainly was the case for Wally.

On the plus side, it gave me PLENTY of chances to reward calm behavior while also getting him warmed up to me.

Now that he's less shy, he's still largely quiet and calm/controlled. Feeding time and right after play are the two times he's becomes possessed by some feral dog spirit and is like a totally different dog


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

KBLover said:


> Don't question good things?
> 
> Don't look a gift-horse in the mouth?
> 
> ...


Basically: don't declare victory until you've fully surveyed the terrain. Or, as Han Solo said to Luke Skywalker: "That's great kid...don't get cocky".

What I tell people is that you don't really know who your pup is until he/she is completely confident that you are not going to kill and eat him/her. 

I got a Rotty bitch who acted utterly depressed for nearly a week after coming home. She was more like a rug than a puppy. She was a sweet and relatively easy pup, but she had her moments. I once picked up a very young (Collie mix) puppy off the street, and for 5 days she was a total gem. Then, like somebody flipped a switch, she turned into this gloriously WILD THING.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> Basically, I have had my puppy for 6 days and would like to report that this experience has been almost 'too easy' with our malti-poo.


Yep. That's why.

I love Sadie more than anything in the world. After 1.5 years she appears perfect to most people who meet her. She shows off her tricks, walks perfectly, is gorgeous and happy. But if the person trying to meet her is a child, she's a mess. 

We didn't find that out until she was 9 months old. She was perfect until then.

Hadley was perfect for the first week too. Then she got roundworms - meaning liquid poo for a week, vomiting, and screaming all night. She can fetch, do all kinds of tricks, loves people, etc. Is doing great with potty training. But she's far from perfect. 

They're still great dogs 

It takes time for them to grow into their personality.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

Marsh Muppet said:


> Basically: don't declare victory until you've fully surveyed the terrain. Or, as Han Solo said to Luke Skywalker: "That's great kid...don't get cocky".
> 
> What I tell people is that you don't really know who your pup is until he/she is completely confident that you are not going to kill and eat him/her.
> 
> I got a Rotty bitch who acted utterly depressed for nearly a week after coming home. She was more like a rug than a puppy. She was a sweet and relatively easy pup, but she had her moments. I once picked up a very young (Collie mix) puppy off the street, and for 5 days she was a total gem. Then, like somebody flipped a switch, she turned into this gloriously WILD THING.


Yes, being carried off to a strange den by strange creatures is very stressful to a puppy. I have had ones that didn't risk biting us for a few days. 

Our Raven and her litter mates were taken to the dog guide school last weekend. They spent the week with new care givers including the vet plus several other litters totaling 24 puppies. The kennel staff will be coming back all day today and tomorrow selecting a puppy and it disappearing. By the time our friend gets there tomorrow to leave her litter, there may not be any puppies left but Raven and Onyx. She will pack them up and drive 2-3 hours, and then meet us and give us Raven. We then have a 1 1/2-2 hour drive home. So Raven will have been through a lot by the time we finally get home. At this point, I have no plans to take her anywhere before our service club meeting Tuesday evening. Wednesday, we will be on the go all day and I have another meeting i should go to Thursday.


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## DJsMom (Jun 6, 2008)

I got DJ when he was 10 weeks old & I've never had any problem with him - he's so good! Has never chewed anything other than his toys & chews, potty trained so easily, non-aggressive, not a nuisance barker, just altogether very well behaved.
Then along came our problem child Coco whom we adopted from the rescue when she was 18 mos old. She has issues & is not an easy dog! But God only knows what kind of life she dealt with before the rescue got her! 

Different dogs, different ways of life, different personalities.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

DJsMom said:


> Then along came our problem child Coco whom we adopted from the rescue when she was 18 mos old. She has issues & is not an easy dog! But God only knows what kind of life she dealt with before the rescue got her!.


Do you think it was possible that Coco was given the shelter at 18 mos becuase she was a problemed dog to begin with and not necessarily the owners fault and the previous owners tried the best they could to _reasonably_ correct the behavior?


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## MafiaPrincess (Jul 1, 2009)

Cider was a terror suddenly around 8 months old though she's been easy going from 8 weeks.. and can still make trouble at the age of 5..

Smudge came to me super easy going at 14 weeks has never been a problem child ever. Some days it's like I didn't get a second dog.. Never chewed his bedding, never looked to steal from trash cans.. or counter surf.. or anything else Cider can do like a pro.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> Do you think it was possible that Coco was given the shelter at 18 mos becuase she was a problemed dog to begin with....


That is a definite possibility. That crazy CollieX pup I mentioned had brand new tags on her. I had to wait over a holiday weekend to get the owner's address from the SPCA where she was adopted. The people at the address denied knowing anything about her. Suspicious. By the time I had arranged to take her to a no-kill shelter, she had fully blossomed into the devil puppy that the family had kicked out of the house. Bastards!

I could completely understand why some people might want to put distance between their little kids and that little psycho puppy, but kicking a 10-ish week old pup out on the street is just cold. She would've been great with the right handling, but it was impossible for me to keep her.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Personally, you've only had your dog 6 days. You're just beginning things. I don't mean you will end up with a wild puppy but you won't know your pup's true personality for a few weeks. And then come the teenage years which for many ups can be when they turn into terrors.

My current puppy is not what I'd call 'easy'. I knew this going into it and deliberately picked the most energetic puppy because that's the kind of dog I enjoy and she's hopefully going to be a sports dog. But really other than energy level and mischief level she was pretty good. She's a dog with a very active mind that you have to keep busy or worn out for the most part. But she really wasn't a chewer at all until 6 months old when she suddenly started chewing EVERYTHING. She has chewed up quite a few things now like expensive textbooks, etc but before 6 months she showed zero interest in chewing things that weren't toys. So what I'm saying is don't get complacent. You may end up with a chewer after all, you never know.


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## DJsMom (Jun 6, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> Do you think it was possible that Coco was given the shelter at 18 mos becuase she was a problemed dog to begin with and not necessarily the owners fault and the previous owners tried the best they could to _reasonably_ correct the behavior?


Oh certainly, that's def a possibility. The only thing we were told about Coco's past is that she was picked up as an extremely emaciated stray & then dropped off at the shelter, put directly into foster care where we adopted her. 
And honestly, tho she does have issues (mainly severe SA), she is really a very sweet girl & for the most part very good. 
No matter her past, I do believe that what she needs most a home that will love her for who she is, who she can be & will work with her problems rather than not accept her as a part of the family.


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

Dakota knew the sit command when we got her at 10 weeks but..... she was a hellion!! She loved to chew hands but oddly nothing else in the house (except branches and old wood on the deck) She has been the most challenging puppy I've had so far but with the training and maturing she is coming along great. The good about her is far more than the naughty.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

You have a very sweet puppy and I hope you continue to have such a great experience with him. If he starts being more of a challenge, there are lots of great resources to help and many smart people on this forum who can offer good advice.

Our girl was a terror from day 1 and while there were moments when I wished she would just turn into a rug, 99% of the time it was and is a hoot to own a dog that keeps us on our toes. She was potty trained within 2-3 weeks after we got her but mostly she pushed every button she could all day every day. I've never seen such naked determination in my life from any creature. If we blocked her from doing something, she would keep trying until she had figured out a way around us and whatever technique we had used to thwart her. She just would _not_ give up on anything she wanted.

I used to think I was pretty smart before I got this dog. I've been humbled many, many times since. And I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## moots (Oct 26, 2009)

I currently have 2 dogs who I've had since they were 10 weeks old, one is almost 7.5 month old pure bred westie, and the other is a 5.5 year old maltese cross westie. They've both been brought up the same way, but the are pretty much the complete opposite of each other. 

My westie hardly listens, she does her own thing, her life revolves around herself, she likes to bark, she is very independent, she is interested in meeting everyone and everything, she will stalk things small as an ant. She has an incredible prey drive, cannot be off the leash outside because she will piss-bolt miles away, we had to reinforce our fences due to her digging power. She LOVES strangers and other dogs.

My maltese cross westie on the other hand always listens, her life revolves around the family, she never barks, she is independent as she can be left a lone all day without any problems but she'll stay within 5-10 meters of someone always. She has zero prey drive, she can be off-leash outside and doesn't chase any dogs or any humans or anything, has zero interest in other strangers or dog, will stay within 5 meters or so when offleash outside. Never digs. She HAS ZERO INTEREST in strangers other dogs, she isn't afraid...she just doesn't care.


Both were brought up the same way and were both desexed at 6 months of age....so I'am starting to doubt training is the answer to everything.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

Training is the answer to everything. Some dogs just take 10 times a much as others. Nothing sadder than somebody that lets an easy dog or 2 convince them they are a great trainer.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Some dogs are just naturally easy, others are just difficult... you can't really chalk it up to anything. I've had 7 paps for example. Of the 5 we have now, Rose is a naturally easy dog. She's up for anything, great manners, quiet, naturally non-intruding. Rose, I am pretty sure, is the perfect dog. She would fit in anywhere with ease. Summer is another pretty easy dog. She's got more spunk to her and more energy but she picks up commands left and right and is by far the most trainable dog I've ever owned. Other than her SA, she's a piece of cake. Beau... Beau is hyper and can be unruly. He needed a lot more obedience work to have decent manners. Nard is independent and was a mess up until about 10 months- he chewed, was hyper, untrainable, etc. With maturity though, he's now probably the second easiest dog we have. Very calm and stoic and behaved. And Mia... Mia is a tough puppy right now, lol. She is stubborn and strong willed, scrappy, way too smart for her own good, hyper, easily distracted, etc... She is a lot of fun though and I can see peeks of the amazing dog she is going to become. It's going to take work though, a lot more work than most the others.

So even in the same breed and mostly raised in the same house, there's a lot of variation. I know some dogs just need time and maturity and a little guidance to become good dogs. Some rare ones are just good to begin with.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Well I'm proud to announce it's day 5 of crate training and the puppy is NOT WHINING AT ALL!! I'm *AMAZED* the dog is crate trained already!! He's downstairs now and we're up in bed. It's 11:15pm EST. No whining, barking.. nada! 5 days guys!



Labsnothers said:


> Training is the answer to everything. Some dogs just take 10 times a much as others.


2 questions for anyoneo who wants to answer:

Do you think it's reasonable to expect that the average family spend 10x the effort on training a dog when soemone else doens't have to? 

Also do you think that maybe new perspective dog owners should not be getting dogs from shelters if they would like their first family dog?



Laurelin said:


> So even in the same breed and mostly raised in the same house, there's a lot of variation. I know some dogs just need time and maturity and a little guidance to become good dogs. Some rare ones are just good to begin with.


Yes the breeder told us the personality of all the pups. Ours was the most lax and was the breeders dh's favorite of the litter due to his temperment. He was the largest male so no one wanted him wo we got him at a reduced price.

Our cats were brother and sister. Two totally different personality. One is a scaredy cat, the other is hyper with a high hunting instinct and likes to mark her teritory everywhere she goes.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

mikedavid00 said:


> Do you think it's reasonable to expect that the average family spend 10x the effort on training a dog when soemone else doens't have to?


Yes, I do think it's reasonable. Just because some dog come pretty much preprogrammed with manners doesn't mean you should expect your dog to be that way. I expect people to make a smart choice regarding choosing a dog in the first place. There is no excuse to get a dog then not want to put in the effort to train it. That's not a reason to return a dog.



> Also do you think that maybe new perspective dog owners should not be getting dogs from shelters if they would like their first family dog?


No, I don't agree at all. Depending on their requirements as a family, there are many, many great dogs sitting in shelters and rescues that would make good first dogs. Of course some won't, but not all of them are terrible or need that much more work. I worked in a shelter a long time and we had dogs that were surrendered for every reason imaginable. It wasn't always a fault of the dog's.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

moots said:


> Both were brought up the same way and were both desexed at 6 months of age....so I'am starting to doubt training is the answer to everything.


Me too.

I'm feeling that I'm getting lucky becuase of the temperment. I haven't really trained the dog much at all. Like.. 5 days and the dog is crate trained now. I'm reading people crate training for 2 months. Whining all night.. having to keep the create right beside the bed, then a foot away each night.. that sort of thing. With this dog, the most he's whined has been 20 min tops then quiet through the night.

He's now poo'ing outside too. Pee is a bit harder but we admit that our fault for not timing his drinking as well. 

When he poo's, he runs over for praise. All I did was praise him once, then the second day he just ran over for praise after he poo'd. It's like 'i just praised you ONCE and you are ALREADY TRAINED?' 

Hehehe I'll take that!!!!! Don't mind at all! 

I just hope this continues and he doens't turn into a white fluff ball monster!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

mikedavid00 said:


> Do you think it's reasonable to expect that the average family spend 10x the effort on training a dog when soemone else doens't have to?


Do you think that all dogs that are not as "perfect" as your dog should be killed? 

Do you think that all of the puppies in your dog's litter are just as "perfect" as he is?



> Also do you think that maybe new perspective dog owners should not be getting dogs from shelters if they would like their first family dog?


I've met just as many "perfect" dogs from shelters as from breeders. The added benefit of a shelter dog being that usually they're older, and you can tell what their personality will be like. Puppies from a shelter are just as much of a gamble as puppies from a less-than-terrific breeder.

Willow was "perfect" for the first month, and then watch out! But she was a field-bred Lab, so hyperness was to be expected. She was a problem dog all around. Goes to show about less-than-perfect breeders.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

I would just like to point out that no puppy trains itself. And I would highly recommend doing some solid obedience training now so you don't regret it later. Having solid obedience can really help in the 'teens' phase.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

upendi'smommy said:


> I would just like to point out that no puppy trains itself. And I would highly recommend doing some solid obedience training now so you don't regret it later. Having solid obedience can really help in the 'teens' phase.


Yes I'm afraid that the dog will eventually get naughty. 

I've already told him to sit, stay and then come on command. I can do this about 15 feet away.

I had no idea how to train the dog to do this. I just told him to sit. Then showed it my palm and repeated 'stay' every 2 seconds while I backed up. Then stopped.. then 'ok boy come on' and he got the treat and he'd run over accross the hallway. 

It worked after the third try and was no problem at all to train him on this. 

I spent a bit of time teaching him how to shake hands but he did NOT get the hang of it. 

I heard if you get great tasting treats, it's like 'paying him more' to do the trick and he'll go more out of his way to be attentive to the obedience if he really loves the treat. I actually have a bunch of real bacon bits in the freezer. I'm worried about diariah though because his poo is coming out almost odourless and half dry. I read the Iam's food he's on has chemicals that make his stools nice and hard and low odor.. which I LIKE!


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

It's good that you're doing training because IMO they tend to pick up on it much faster as puppies. Other good commands are down and wait as they can be extremely useful. Having a good recall is also extremely important because things do happen and dogs do get out.

I would also not give a treat every time the dog does a command after he's got it because if you do there may come a time where he won't do anything for you unless he sees a treat.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Willowy said:


> Do you think that all dogs that are not as "perfect" as your dog should be killed?


No but I dont think it would be a wise idea to recommend to normal average dog owners to get a herding dog that will require a lot of training that the working owners will most likely not be able to give it. Thus it may get aggressive and end up at a shelter.



> Do you think that all of the puppies in your dog's litter are just as "perfect" as he is?


No they aern't. The breeders said so themselves. 

The big problem with my dog, is that *many dog owners do not consider my dog a 'real dog'.* Everytime I told someone at work I wanted a Bichon or a Toy Poodle they always said 'ah you don't want those.. those aren't real dogs'. Like EVERYONE tells me this hehe... (I'm talking about mainstreme dog owners not dog enthusiests)

So I know that my dog isn't very respected amongst many dog owners hehehe... that's the major downfall to owning this kind of dog.

I really, really wanted to adopt a Greyhound/Whippet when I was younger and still did/do. But my wife really dislikes the look of them. She feels they look scary. Some dogs I really dislike how they look (schnauser for me) so I know what she means.



upendi'smommy said:


> I would also not give a treat every time the dog does a command after he's got it because if you do there may come a time where he won't do anything for you unless he sees a treat.


Thanks! I'll take your advice.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

mikedavid00 said:


> I dont think it would be a wise idea to recommend to normal average dog owners to get a herding dog that will require a lot of training that the working owners will most likely not be able to give it. Thus it may get aggressive and end up at a shelter.


Very true....people should do their research BEFORE getting a dog, to make sure they get a dog that is right for them. 

This could be an adult dog from a shelter, mixed or purebred, or it could be a puppy/young adult/retired breeding dog from a responsible breeder.





> No they aern't. The breeders said so themselves.


So, what's the point of your frequent harping about how people shouldn't adopt from shelters? If dogs from a breeder are no different.....


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> No but I dont think it would be a wise idea to recommend to normal average dog owners to get a herding dog that will require a lot of training that the working owners will most likely not be able to give it. Thus it may get aggressive and end up at a shelter.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'll take your advice.


The problem with herding dogs isn't that they're hard to train. They are actually general quite easy to train as they were bred to work WITH people and be reliable with commands.

The problem comes with exercise, they are higher energy and therefore require more exercise. If someone is prepared to keep them mentally stimulated and give them the proper amount of exercise they can be great pets.

And no problem.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

> No but I dont think it would be a wise idea to recommend to normal average dog owners to get a herding dog that will require a lot of training that the working owners will most likely not be able to give it. Thus it may get aggressive and end up at a shelter.


Herding breeds can make fabulous pets for the right people. I've had herders much longer than any other kind of dog (though I don't have a herder now, it's the first time I've ever not had one). They're not for everyone, but if someone knows what they're getting into, herding breeds can make superb pets and possibly the best dog you've ever had. They are in my opinion in a league of their own. Brilliant animals, high energy, highly trainable, VERY handler oriented. I would much rather deal with a herding breed than most other breeds. 

ETA: Herders are actually pretty easy to train generally. But they do require you to do more with them. If you don't want to do that, then don't get a herder. But some people, even first time dog owners, want a more challenging dog. I personally do a lot with my dogs, so they're perfect for me.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

After reading your post, it seems that you think that bc your puppy is doing the right things so far, he's fully trained. This is the same mentality we had when we first got Herrick, a miniature schnauzer who is extremely smart and does a lot of tricks. We have spent so many hours training him and reinforcing his behavior bc like you, we thought it was only a matter of days and that was it. It's been 2 months now and we are still keeping up with his training bc he has his days where he doesn't want to listen; while that's ok, it's not something we want to encourage. We researched mini schnauzers through and through to make sure that this was the type of dog we wanted and while he's a great dog, don't let your puppy fool you into thinking that he's fully trained bc he has been doing everything great so far.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> Herding breeds can make fabulous pets for the right people. I've had herders much longer than any other kind of dog (though I don't have a herder now, it's the first time I've ever not had one). They're not for everyone, but if someone knows what they're getting into, herding breeds can make superb pets and possibly the best dog you've ever had. They are in my opinion in a league of their own. Brilliant animals, high energy, highly trainable, VERY handler oriented. I would much rather deal with a herding breed than most other breeds.
> 
> ETA: Herders are actually pretty easy to train generally. But they do require you to do more with them. If you don't want to do that, then don't get a herder. But some people, even first time dog owners, want a more challenging dog. I personally do a lot with my dogs, so they're perfect for me.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I've heard it said that having a good border collie is like having a furry best friend. 

And I agree regarding the challenge part too: I'm a first-time dog owner who decided on a young dog of a herding breed from a shelter BECAUSE I wanted a challenge. That's part of my nature. I didn't WANT a dog that was going to be easy from day one, because frankly, what's the fun in that? Yeah, the first couple of days were hell and the first couple of months were rocky, but she is SO worth it. She has become an amazing dog with a heart of pure gold and abilities beyond those of 99% of dogs I've ever met. Everyone who meets her wants her.

To the OP: I agree with what has been said here already. You just brought your dog home and he's still settling in. He's probably still figuring out the boundaries and trying to decide how much trouble he will get in if he misbehaves. I hope that he continues to be easy for you, but don't be surprised if he starts coming out of his shell this week, next week, next month, or even next year. Every dog is different. Good luck!


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## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Me too.
> 
> I'm feeling that I'm getting lucky becuase of the temperment. I haven't really trained the dog much at all. Like.. 5 days and the dog is crate trained now. I'm reading people crate training for 2 months. Whining all night.. having to keep the create right beside the bed, then a foot away each night.. that sort of thing. With this dog, the most he's whined has been 20 min tops then quiet through the night.
> 
> ...


You are putting this puppy on a HUGE pedistal. Seriously. How can you say that this puppy is training himself, that he is "fully trained" after receiving verbal praise for one "poop"? I hope you are not saying that you are not continuing verbal praise for every pee and poop outside. Praise is ESSENTIAL with training. Any breed is out to please its ownder; and you MUST praise the positive behavior...each and every single time! This can not stop. It is the easiest thing in the world to do, to let your pup know how proud you are.

I think it is great that you have a puppy who seems (seems, being the key word here) very easy natured. However, if you keep the attitude you have, you are setting yourself and more importantly, this puppy up for some major disappointments.

Your puppy WILL have accidents. He will whine. He will drive you crazy from time to time. This is normal behavior. 

You describe this dog as needing no training, that he is training himself. Well, I am sorry but that is plain foolish. A dog doesn't train itself. Ask any expert. They follow their instincts, and yes, some breeds are "easier" to train than others. However, it is up to the OWNER to train them correctly. It seems your puppy has great instincts. That is wonderful. However, puppies go through a time of regress; around maybe 4 months or so, your "perfect, no problem puppy who trains himself" will be peeing and pooping in your house. 

You need to not expect that this is going to be how it is going to be. Seriously. Otherwise you are going to be very disappointed. 

I also want to point out, that people who have puppies who are NORMAL and need training, may be reading this and thinking, "what is wrong with my puppy? why doesn't he act like this puppy?" I am not saying you shouldn't share your success and happiness, bt frankly you are lacking realism here. 

I will end this post by saying puppies DO NOT train themselves. They require consistency and patience. They will train by example; your example. If you stick with your utopian ideas that you have the perfect dog that needs no training and will remain this way, well...I wish you well. I proimise it wil not last.

Denise


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

Greyhound puppies have a reputation for being nightmares...honestly, ours has been a dream. We provide her appropriate puppy training and outlet for her energy and she's a total delight! We've had her since the day she was born.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

All dogs are individuals, both within their breed or breed mix and within the canis familiaris family.
Genetics, early puppyhood socialization and nurturing and latter and life long training all co mingle to make for a "good dog", but genetics are key. A dog that has had a bad start but has good temperament genetically is going to be easier to "turn around" than a dog with an unstable temperament genetically. Nature AND nurture are key.

And yes I think it is reasonable to expect that one owner may have to do 10 x the work than the next. Dogs are sentient, thinking and complicated beings..and we humans need to understand that. Do the best prep you can and buckle down and do what you have to, such is life!


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

My Whippet was so easy that I think if you can't housebreak and train a whippet in a week you're hopeless- give up and don't have a dog!

He's 12, and he's still the perfect dog 

For the record, I don't have any problems with my five month old GSD either, or any of my rescue Goldens.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Laurelin said:


> Some dogs are just naturally easy, others are just difficult... you can't really chalk it up to anything.


Agreed -- Kim was a really easy puppy and I really can't take credit for it at all. She crate- and house-trained virtually instantly, was only essentially only destructive toward her own toys (with the memorable exception of one ink pen). She was very mature for her age and had a pretty long attention span from the start...honestly I think she's actually less mature now than she was as a puppy lol. I took her a long to be sure we weren't going to eat her I guess.



mikedavid00 said:


> Also do you think that maybe new perspective dog owners should not be getting dogs from shelters if they would like their first family dog?


Kim was a rescue dog....pulled out of a ditch with no known history other than worms, spending her 8-10 week fear period being dumped in a secluded ditch and having her littermates picked off by local wildlife, and a general region of Tennessee. She is high energy and high drive but if you meet those requirements she is an incredibly "good" dog by the standard definition...doesn't get into things she shouldn't, etc. etc. 

Mira on the other hand is from conscientious, experienced breeders and was socialized and handled from day one. Training began immediately with an emphasis on socialization...at 16 weeks she's met (actually interacted with) well over 500 people and 200 dogs. For the first two weeks she was pretty low-key...mostly napping and snuggling and playing with appropriate toys. Really, the type of puppy most people would enjoy because she didn't really...do anything. Now at 16 weeks she is an absolute livewire with confidence coming out of her ears and a burning desire to explore everything with her mouth. Yesterday I was cleaning out the storage room and she managed to clamor back to join me...which included climb up and over a 4' stack of boxes and nearly bringing another stack down on top of herself. Then she climbed up on my swiveling desk chair, rotated it around to the desk, then climbed up on to my desk to eat the dinner I had put on the top of the desk hutch while I grabbed some water. After that she destuffed two toys, stole a pair of jeans from the laundry (she goes for the big clothes), etc. etc. I would NOT say she is a "problem"...she is simply a working breed from working lines and one reason I chose this litter is because this is what I wanted in a dog, and I love her for it. But it's a full-time job and she is not a dog most families would enjoy. High energy and gregarious yet soft is not a personality that works well with traditional training or a lack of training. 

In this case at least, the rescue dog was much easier than the breeder dog, even if the reason is mostly based on confidence levels. By the time Kim was confident enough to attempt some of the things Mira pulls, she already knew the "rules" and respected those boundaries. She's mischievous, but she has limits. Mira has no limits lol.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

How old is this pup, 8? 9 weeks?

at that age range he is still a bitty little baby...and while he may possibly stay an easy dog...they do have a series of developmental phases they go through that can be trying and difficult...I wouldn't let the easyness get to you...that way when the teenager phase hits, if he goes as nuts as some of the bad attitude teen dogs I've seen...you will be less disappointed...


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## moots (Oct 26, 2009)

Yeah I wouldn't get too far ahead of myself if I was you to be 100% honest. You may have a dog that is always like that and his attitude and temp might not ever change. BUT you can never be too sure. Bad habits can start to form at any time. I am finding it hard to believe about the biting/chewing part of your main post as I've never seen a healthy dog that young that isn't constantly looking for something to chew so this would be a first. 

My 5.5 year old maltese was & is like your dog. My westie on the other hand as I mentioned before is the opposite, but from week 10 - week 12 she was very easy and submissive, it's not until she got really comfortable in her surroundings and the people around here when her REAL personality came out. Your maltipoo just might be hiding his real personality for now....cross your fingers and hope you lucked out on a easy going dog.


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## Bentley'smom (Oct 13, 2009)

I think you are still in the honeymoon phase so don't be too disappointed if things don't stay like this. I thought the same thing for the first week of having my puppy but soon found he is a lot of work and requires a lot of training in manners. Especially the biting.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

Lol 6 days. I've had my puppy for only 2 months and she is COMPLETELY different from when I got her. At the beginning she was quiet and didn't chew on anything not even her toys. She also had an excellent recall. She didn't know her name but all I had to do was blow her a kiss. Now she doesn't listen to me at all as far as recall goes and she chews almost anything she can reach.

I hope your puppy stays how he is but I wouldn't let my guard down.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

Well we have had Raven home for 2 1/2 hours. So far, so good.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

moots said:


> I am finding it hard to believe about the biting/chewing part of your main post as I've never seen a healthy dog that young that isn't constantly looking for something to chew so this would be a first. .


It's true. The dog only chews at his toys and milkbone chews. Never a shoe, wires, or anything else he shouldn't be chewing on... well he does actually chew on grass and some odd leaves when I take him out.



> Your maltipoo just might be hiding his real personality for now....cross your fingers and hope you lucked out on a easy going dog


I'm hoping for good luck too! I'm afraid he's going to turn into a monster. It's like I'm still waiting for the catch because this has been much easier than expected.

It's been so easy this last 8 days with the puppy. The puppy is 3 months old.

A half hour ago we put him in the crate downstairs and he barked maybe a few times and just stopped.  YIPPIE!


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

Are you sure he has no training, from the breeder I mean? I would expect that at 3 months, the breeder must have at least started potty training.

Just seems odd to me that the pup has no training at all.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Labsnothers said:


> Well we have had Raven home for 2 1/2 hours. So far, so good.


It would be nice if you can post a pic when you get a chance.



Terrie said:


> Are you sure he has no training, from the breeder I mean? I would expect that at 3 months, the breeder must have at least started potty training.
> 
> Just seems odd to me that the pup has no training at all.


The breeder lives in a small aparatment with 2 children. They live in a high rise apartment building. There were 4 puppies I think in total. The 2 parents were of the pups were onsite. They had a custom built litter box on the balcony but only the parent dogs used those. The little dogs were not crate trained or paper trained and had run of house. 

The dog was never taken outside or had a leash on it because the breeder said that it didn't have it's second set of shots so we aren't supposed to walk it. Even right now we aren't walking the dog.. we're only taking out to our back yard. He's getting his second shots this Wed.

So yea.. it pretty much had no training. It did understand it's name though. 

And when we taught him to sit, he seemed to react to our raised voice 'HEY!! SIT!' when we opened the garage door so he kind of looked at us and then just sat down. Hehehe.. Actually if there is a raised voice at all he'll almost always sit. Sometimes he'll lie down. But he just sits when we tell him. No real lessons needed. 

So on Friday I thought I would break out the treats and get him to stay and come on command. This worked after the 3rd try. Sit, stay, come. No problems at all. That was the only time I ever trained the dog.

Shaking hands he didn't catch on to that fast. I tried maybe 5 times though.. like 1 minute. 

It seems the louder the voice, the more he gets the message. He seems very responsive to tone and volume of what you are telling him to do.

I suggest that those that want their dog to stay or stop a behavior, really try to raise your voice and say it like you mean it. Try to bend down in their face more. 

The reason why is because my wife couldn't under stand why her 'sit!' commands weren't working like mine. She would have to repeat herself and the dog wouldn't listen for the first 3 times. 

I told her maybe that she wasn't being loud and agressive enough so she pretty much yelled it and got more aggressive and it really worked. (by yelling sit, we are using this to usually sit outside a door.. for instance we don't want him going into our cat room where the cat food and water is so when we open the door we want him to sit and stay outside the door.. it's harder to get him to sit when he really wants to go in a door but he will sit outside the door and stare while we go in and do our business hehe.. this is a 3 month old puppy doing this)

If anyone is having trouble with their puppy, try a big, mean, LOUD 'SIT!!' and see what happens. 

Give it a try and see what happens. That's how I did it.


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

KBLover said:


> > Originally Posted by Marsh Muppet View Post
> > As the 7th Cavalry was riding toward the Little Big Horn, Gen. George C. Custer was overheard complaining about having to be on "another boring-a** patrol" and wishing for a worthy enemy who wasn't "too damned cowardly" to give him a decent fight.
> > Don't question good things?
> 
> ...


Heh, I was thinking, "Pride cometh before the fall."

Midedavid, considering the kind of breeder your puppy came from, I think you can expect the unexpected. There's really no way to know how he'll develop.

ETA: Sorry this is off-topic, but did the color scheme just change or something? There's this muddy gray-brown color on the left that looks new to me.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

did your puppy come from a byb? >.>


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

My last two puppies were no problem either and they are ...gasp.... miniature schnauzers. If you read this forum you will know that many people are of the opinion that schnauzers are yappy nippy ill tempered beasts.
I have four and I have not found that to be true.
There were joys to have as puppies- smart, easy to train, playful and obedient. They are also spunky--I like spunky.
I was consistent with their training- took them to puppy class and later to obedience class, played with them every chance I could and enjoyed every moment of their puppyhood.
Hey maybe that is the key here. Match the breed to your lifestyle- know what to expect- be consistent and ENJOY!!
I'm glad your puppy is doing well. Have fun.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

bfoster said:


> My last two puppies were no problem either and they are ...gasp.... miniature schnauzers. If you read this forum you will know that many people are of the opinion that schnauzers are yappy nippy ill tempered beasts.
> I have four and I have not found that to be true.
> There were joys to have as puppies- smart, easy to train, playful and obedient. They are also spunky--I like spunky.
> I was consistent with their training- took them to puppy class and later to obedience class, played with them every chance I could and enjoyed every moment of their puppyhood.
> ...


You're lucky to have trained your schnauzers well! And good job!

My friend just got a schnauzer recently and oh my goodness she knows no rules. They've had her for 2 months now and I just met her, the first thing she did was run to me and nip my hand. 

Then when Nia went to sniff her, she initiated play so then Nia chased her a bit and for some reasons she got mad that Nia was running towards her and immediately nipped her. drew a bit of blood too...

Now the dogs that we hang out with are all avoiding the Schnauzer pup because she bites. She's nipped quite a few dogs around here lol plus people as well.


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## bfoster (Feb 9, 2009)

Hey Michiyo-Fir----
Sorry to hear about the nippy schnauzer pup. I think you said it all with
"the pup knows no rules" Hate to see the little booger out there giving all the good ones a bad rap. LOL 
I think people need to be honest with themselves regarding their commitment to training before getting any pup- they don't know what we don't teach them.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

The thing that bugged me the most was the owners. I mean your dog is nipping people and other dogs! And she acted like it was the other people/dog's fault..

For example when she nipped Nia, Nia yelped (obviously since it even drew blood) and the owner immediately ran over there, pushed Nia aside and picked up her pup thinking that Nia had hurt her!! I of course was pretty damn mad.

After I told her her dog nipped mine, she said it's because your dog is older than her and too rough....

eek..sorry for hijacking this thread! I'm really off topic, I'll stop now.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> The breeder lives in a small aparatment with 2 children. They live in a high rise apartment building. There were 4 puppies I think in total. The 2 parents were of the pups were onsite. They had a custom built litter box on the balcony but only the parent dogs used those. The little dogs were not crate trained or paper trained and had run of house.


So wait, they weren't housetraining them, yet they let the puppies have run of the house? That would mean they were going all over the apartment which one is really disgusting and two makes it really hard to believe that your puppy is automatically house trained.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Terrie said:


> did your puppy come from a byb? >.>


Yup. 

Well an apartment breeder in a highrise condo hehehe..



bfoster said:


> My last two puppies were no problem either and they are ...gasp.... miniature schnauzers. If you read this forum you will know that many people are of the opinion that schnauzers are yappy nippy ill tempered beasts..


My old boss had two of thse puppies. 

He said barking was a major problem and that if anyone approached the house.. especially the neighbours, they would 'just lose it' and bark like mad non stop. He said they jumped up the windows and lost it and he tried everything and dind't know how to fix it. 

Of course the way to fix it is a bark collar. Owners would say their dogs would jump up the window WANTING to bark but couldn't hehhe.. they also said that the collars would constantly have to be re-enfoced from time to time becuase the training didn't stick well for this kind of barking. 

I think thre's also a surgery you can get too..

For my old boss it was a major problem for him.



Michiyo-Fir said:


> Then when Nia went to sniff her, she initiated play so then Nia chased her a bit and for some reasons she got mad that Nia was running towards her and immediately nipped her. drew a bit of blood too....


OUCH! Not a good sign. Could be a shelter dog if it continues. Needs strict corrections for that behavior.



bfoster said:


> Hey Michiyo-Fir----
> I think people need to be honest with themselves regarding their commitment to training before getting any pup- they don't know what we don't teach them.


But honeslty my little guy is no problem! I even uploaded a video today showing our little guy:

Here I was training him to stay and then come on command. This is probably the 6-7th time I've dont this. I've spent maybe 3 min TOPS teaching him this command over 3 days. This time I thought I would pick up the camcorder and show how easy he's been. 

My 3 month old wonder pup Victor with no previous training.. this has been EASY FOR ME:






LOL!! I just watched this video now to test it and the puppy HEARD my OK COME ON! And he just RAN OVER HERE!! LOL!!



upendi'smommy said:


> So wait, they weren't housetraining them, yet they let the puppies have run of the house? That would mean they were going all over the apartment which one is really disgusting and two makes it really hard to believe that your puppy is automatically house trained.


I never said the puppy is automatically house trained. I've said several times he still pees on the carpet. 

He hasn't poo'd though in the house in the last 3 days or so becuase his poo timings are more reliable than pee. 

He's peing 50% outside now.

Also the poo and pee doens't smell from this dog. I'm not sure if you use Iam's, but I understand they put chemicals in the food to make the poo dryer and less odor. The pee smells, but is very mild.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

mikedavid00 said:


> And when we taught him to sit, he seemed to react to our raised voice 'HEY!! SIT!' when we opened the garage door so he kind of looked at us and then just sat down. Hehehe.. Actually if there is a raised voice at all he'll almost always sit. Sometimes he'll lie down. But he just sits when we tell him. No real lessons needed.





mikedavid00 said:


> It seems the louder the voice, the more he gets the message. He seems very responsive to tone and volume of what you are telling him to do.
> 
> I suggest that those that want their dog to stay or stop a behavior, really try to raise your voice and say it like you mean it. Try to bend down in their face more.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing the puppy doesn't respond to your wife's "sit" command because the puppy has no idea what "sit" means. Chances are the puppy responds to your yelling and shouting in its face because it is scared of you and one of a dog's natural reaction when frightened is to flatten to the ground and make itself as tiny as possible. When you shout at your pup and it sits or lays down, it is apologizing to you for whatever it did to make you shout at it. Look at the words you are using...mean, aggressive, big, loud, yell, in-your-face. Is that the kind of owner you want to be? Is that the kind of _person _you want to be?



mikedavid00 said:


> Also the poo and pee doens't smell from this dog. I'm not sure if you use Iam's, but I understand they put chemicals in the food to make the poo dryer and less odor. The pee smells, but is very mild.


Seriously? _Chemicals_?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm honestly having reservations about this poster and am wondering if they're just trying to get a rise out of everyone.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Actually, you're probably right. I just reread that post I quoted and noticed the portion about using bark collars without training, even when they don't work and the advice to Michiyo that the dog bothering Nia should be taken to the shelter.

Clearly intended to push buttons...and I let mine get pushed, gosh darnit!


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

FilleBelle said:


> The puppy doesn't respond to your wife's "sit" command because the puppy has no idea what "sit" means.


Well you can see from the video that he understands sit. 

He never balls up like you described. I don't yell my head off, I just shout maybe a 6 out of 10 and he seems to get it.. But that time we had the garage door open and the dog was going to run out (because the outside garage was opened and he would have ran loose) we really yelled 'HEY GET AWAY!!' and it really worked. That's the only time we had to do it and it's like he just understands that running out into the garage is off limits.

And as far as me pushing buttons, I'm not. I have a bunch of other things to do that are more important. 

And no, I certainly will not recommend a Ausi/Boxer mix at 7 months old from a shelter to a first time dog owner in an apartment. 

Just like you are free to endorse it as a good idea, I am free not to. That's what makes us the 'first world'.

But what do i know.. I'm a new dog owner my opinion is worth 2 cents


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I could see from the video that he will stay for 30 seconds from a distance of perhaps 2 yards with you repeating the command over and over again. I did not see him sit on command, nor did I see him sit for your wife. Given the fact that most well-trained dogs will sit for a hand gesture and no words at all, I would say that a dog that must be yelled at in order to perform a sit is a dog that doesn't know what sit means.

I also did not specify that a dog "balls up" when shouted at. I specificied that sitting and laying down can both be appeasement gestures in response to a large, loud man shouting in a dog's face. A dog will do a great deal out of fear, including sit and stay in the garage. Shouting may stop the dog in its tracks, but it doesn't _teach _anything.

It wasn't just the shouting that caused Laurelin to say what she said. I'm guessing it was also the portion of your post in which you advocated a bark collar instead of training, even while admitting the bark collar doesn't work. Or it might have been the advice that the dog bothering Nia be taken to a shelter. Or maybe it was the notion that feeding a dog _chemicals _will improve the texture of its feces. Any one of those statements is enough to cause a minor riot on a dog forum. All of them in one post is...scary.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

I agree with FilleBelle, advocating a bark collar for a barking dog is more than enough to get to me. I have a miniature schnauzer, who to this day does not bark...at all. I'm not saying that this is going to be the case forever, but if he was ever to bark non stop, I would not even THINK about putting on a bark collar on him or putting him through surgery to get him to stop. There are other ways to correct this that won't harm him and simply because a dog is nippy, does not mean that they are "un-trainable" and should be taken to a shelter. I mean, really? After reading your replies, mikedavid00, I have to feel sorry for your puppy, who, let's say, in the future, nips and barks non-stop, does that mean that there is a shelter waiting for him too?


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## sassykzt (Oct 25, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Of course the way to fix it is a bark collar. Owners would say their dogs would jump up the window WANTING to bark but couldn't hehhe.. they also said that the collars would constantly have to be re-enfoced from time to time becuase the training didn't stick well for this kind of barking.
> 
> I think thre's also a surgery you can get too..
> 
> ...


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Here's the thing:

Your dog does not speak English. No dog speak English. Skidboot, a truly amazing Australian Cattle Dog, does not speak English (look up his YouTube videos, they're awesome and you'll swear that dog does). They also don't speak French, German, or Klingon.

Dogs can understand verbal cues. "Oh, you're making that hissing noise that ends really quick? That means I'm supposed to put my butt on the ground!" You have to teach him what those words MEAN though. My dog (a miniature schnauzer, no less) will sit if I say "Sit." He will also sit if I say "yIDoghQo'" because he doesn't know what that means.

Your dog is not trained in seven days. Will your dog sit outside? Will he sit at a Petsmart? Will he sit when another dog is walking towards him on a walk? Will he sit instead of taking off after a cat/squirrel/leaf?

Your dog is, after one week, perfect. Great. Awesome. maj. If you're building a loving relationship with your dog now, you'll have more patience for him when he inevitably does something not perfect. He will, not because he is not a good dog, but because he is a dog and is not a robot.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> Here's the thing:
> 
> Your dog does not speak English. No dog speak English. Skidboot, a truly amazing Australian Cattle Dog, does not speak English (look up his YouTube videos, they're awesome and you'll swear that dog does). They also don't speak French, German, or Klingon.
> 
> ...


Thank you, you took the words right out of my mouth!

Mike...how could you knowingly feed chemicals to a puppy just to make his poop easy to clean? That is unbelievable.


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

RaeganW said:


> Your dog does not speak English. No dog speak English.


Clearly what we have learned from this thread is that dogs DO speak English, but only if you yell it at them.

Because, you know, dogs have such poor hearing. Possibly from all the yelling.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

Shaina said:


> Clearly what we have learned from this thread is that dogs DO speak English, but only if you yell it at them.
> 
> Because, you know, dogs have such poor hearing. Possibly from all the yelling.


Haha, Shaina, you made me laugh


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

You know what I've found about yelling? It doesn't work ONE LITTLE BIT! I can yell and scream my head off (yes, I admit that the first couple of days that I had Kit I certainly did my share of yelling) and my dog looks at me like I'm speaking Klingon. If I lower my voice and sound happy, she does exactly what I requested. Funny how that works. In general dog's don't learn well when scared.

Your attitude about shelter dogs is appalling. When a dog misbehaves, we should take it to a shelter and make it someone else's problem? DoG forbid it should be TRAINED instead! And those of us who got our dogs there? What are they - someone else's trash? The majority of dogs you will find at the pound don't have anything wrong with them - they're just homeless and down on their luck. They can make great pets, just the same way that mixes and purebreds from byb's and responsible breeders can.

And there's nothing wrong with a first-time owner getting an active dog (such as a boxer/Aussie). If they are dedicated to giving the dog plenty of mental/physical exercise, then it's not your place to judge them. I wouldn't recommend such a dog for ANYONE who is not 100% dedicated.


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## CowdogsFTW (Nov 10, 2009)

You may find that your "puppy is no problem", because strangely, like human beings, dogs and even most animals have individual personality traits. Traits that are even separated from the standard traits of their breed. Sometimes these traits dictate the way that the dog learns. It's fascinating.

"I read the Iam's food he's on has chemicals that make his stools nice and hard and low odor.. which I LIKE!" - If you happen to come across any reliable information or source regarding Iams pet food, you may just find that the ingredients listed in their food products are hardly acceptable as nutritious. It's great you appreciate the chemical additives in your dog's food that modify his stools, but I'm sure he doesn't appreciate the lack of vital nutrients and the (lightly-put) sub par ingredients he has to eat every day. As an afterthought, Iams also abuses, or at least has abused countless animals. Food for thought!

"I suggest that those that want their dog to stay or stop a behavior, really try to raise your voice and say it like you mean it. Try to bend down in their face more." For the love, respect, and admiration, of all things innocent, good, and holy, please, nobody, absolutely nobody try this at home.

What do you find right about bending over a living thing, someone who essentially is from an entirely different culture than you are, and using aggressive, fear-driven techniques to get what you want? Do you sincerely believe this is the correct way to teach anyone? Don't you think perhaps you could get the point across using calm, thoughtful methods? Working the dog through? Being his... friend? That maybe instead of regarding human beings as sources of kindness, this dog might just regard them as sources of fear in response to your actions? You do know that when you take the well-being of a sentient, living creature into your home, you are essentially, to an extent playing god. And to that creature you play the god of, don't you think you owe it the care of its bests interests possible? Is fear included in those interests? What about trust?

"The little dogs were not crate trained or paper trained and had run of house. " - Red flag. Some people would say that it's common knowledge to research the person who has decided to dedicate some semblance of their time into creating more life(you know, on top of the millions upon millions of other lives in existence) before supporting them. Like, just in case you decide to avoid supporting the following because it's ethical or something: Overpopulation, poor genetics, poor behavior, animal abuse, and general irresponsibility and ignorance. For some reason people who typically feel this way often go the route of finding a responsible breeder who participates in the following: health checks, recreational and professional(sporting and showing) activities regarding enrichment of the lives of their dogs whom they love and have weighed the options carefully enough to decide to dedicate a good portion of their time, energy, resources, and of course, heart to. Some people are even selfless enough to save some poor soul from a shelter. Oh, did you know that despite the inhumane, unthinkable circumstances that some shelter dogs are rescued from, they can still be sculpted into outstanding, respectable, sound, loving pets? And perhaps these particular souls will appreciate you even more, for getting them out of the hell hole that used to be their "life"?

"Then when Nia went to sniff her, she initiated play so then Nia chased her a bit and for some reasons she got mad that Nia was running towards her and immediately nipped her. drew a bit of blood too...."
"OUCH! Not a good sign. Could be a shelter dog if it continues. Needs strict corrections for that behavior." This is just interesting.

Oh! Right! For the record, herding breeds! If you ever do any research, you'll find these remarkable animals are some of the best in our lifetime. Border Collies are even regarded as one of the most, if not the top, intelligent dog breeds currently in existence. If you speak with a breeder, _read information about dog breeds that match your personality type_, select a dog who not only is of a breed that reflects your personality type, but has an individual personality type that also reflects your lifestyle and personality, you might find they are exactly the dog for you, regardless of whether or not you've ever lived with a dog before. Whether you live in an apartment, house, or on a farm, they are so intelligent and adaptable, the only thing that really matters to them is _you_. They're also amazing in the ability of having a curbed prey-drive, a wonderful trait around smaller animals, including small human beings. As long as their herding drive is curbed and they are you know, trained, of course. Also, some folks may find these breeds high maintenance. Some folks may also find that with stimulation, affection, and the general activities you expect to be associated with caring for a dog/living being, that these animals can be intellectually independent, composed, and amazingly calm and centered. But, you might only know that by reading about them, or even meeting one. Also, some folks might even say that herding breeds aren't equal-opportunity breeds, as they require you to own a pair. (Addendum: You may also find that with research, you will discover that to care for any dog, you are not required to 'own a pair. Technically.) 


Some fun facts!
The nutrition you offer your dog can and will affect the following(but is not limited to): Health! Coat texture/quality, breath, digestion, growth, longevity.. Temperament! Mood, including bouts of depression, anxiety, or general weariness. If you do research, you'll find that perplexingly, the pet food market is somehow ten times more corrupt than the human food market. ..That's a lot! 'That most kibbles available are pills of animal fat sprayed with just enough to keep your dog going, and that sometimes euthanized animals are recycled into that very food. Oh, and don't forget the nutritional benefits of ethoxyquin! Mmm.

Dogs are receptive, remarkable animals who deserve our respect and understanding. By using forceful techniques and driving fear into the hearts of our dogs, we are not only a detrimental presence to their lives, but practicing poor habits as human beings. Why not set a good example for our species? Recommended reading: Culture Clash. Look it up, it's interesting! Oh, and nothing that Cesar Millan has ever written or expressed, ever.

Feel free to PM me with any questions! 'Hope your pup and you can learn a thing or two from each other!


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Labsnothers said:


> Training is the answer to everything. Some dogs just take 10 times a much as others. Nothing sadder than somebody that lets an easy dog or 2 convince them they are a great trainer.


Easy dogs are so awesome though..  I take great enjoyment in and have much appreciation for easy dogs..


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## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

MikeDavid,

I posted this reply to you earlier in this thread but had to post it again. As I read your responses and your replies, I am seriously stunned by your attitude. Do you honestly feel that your puppy if forever going to "without any need of training"? Seriously?? And choke collars, to prevent barking? I mean, if a dog has EXCESSIVE barking to the degree the vet feels it is due to anxiety and is causing issues, than perhaps this MAY be considered, but your "hehe" comments.....they make me shudder.

You appear to the type with very high expecations. This worries me. What is going to happen when, and it will, WHEN your puppy ISN'T perfect? What is going to happen when your puppy doesn't exhibit these glorious aspects of it's fabulous "self-taught" personailty? Mike, do youself a favor and GET REAL! I don't care what kind of breed it is! Alll puppies need trainings of some kind! All of them! Some more than others, some different than others, some more consistent than others! Seriously! 

Beloe is the original message....I really hope you read it. I am not meaning to judge you but YOU ARE putting this dog on a pedestal...and he is going to fall of. And how sad....because you are setting him up. Enjoy the wonderful things he does. Train him consistently and he will continue to grow into a wonderful dog (he is gorgeous by the way) and I loved that video...however, I do have to agree it was your contant, "Stay...stay.....stay...." that had him staying. Not being "slef-trained." You are the dominent force in his life; YOU are leader. It is your TONE he is hearing, thus he is staying....

PLease, continue working with him, but expect mistakes and "oopsies". They are going to happen....

***************original post************

You are putting this puppy on a HUGE pedestal. Seriously. How can you say that this puppy is training himself, that he is "fully trained" after receiving verbal praise for one "poop"? I hope you are not saying that you are not continuing verbal praise for every pee and poop outside. Praise is ESSENTIAL with training. Any breed is out to please its ownder; and you MUST praise the positive behavior...each and every single time! This can not stop. It is the easiest thing in the world to do, to let your pup know how proud you are.

I think it is great that you have a puppy who seems (seems, being the key word here) very easy natured. However, if you keep the attitude you have, you are setting yourself and more importantly, this puppy up for some major disappointments.

Your puppy WILL have accidents. He will whine. He will drive you crazy from time to time. This is normal behavior. 

You describe this dog as needing no training, that he is training himself. Well, I am sorry but that is plain foolish. A dog doesn't train itself. Ask any expert. They follow their instincts, and yes, some breeds are "easier" to train than others. However, it is up to the OWNER to train them correctly. It seems your puppy has great instincts. That is wonderful. However, puppies go through a time of regress; around maybe 4 months or so, your "perfect, no problem puppy who trains himself" will be peeing and pooping in your house. 

You need to not expect that this is going to be how it is going to be. Seriously. Otherwise you are going to be very disappointed. 

I also want to point out, that people who have puppies who are NORMAL and need training, may be reading this and thinking, "what is wrong with my puppy? why doesn't he act like this puppy?" I am not saying you shouldn't share your success and happiness, bt frankly you are lacking realism here. 

I will end this post by saying puppies DO NOT train themselves. They require consistency and patience. They will train by example; your example. If you stick with your utopian ideas that you have the perfect dog that needs no training and will remain this way, well...I wish you well. I proimise it wil not last.

Denise


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## charaseac (Oct 18, 2009)

Kyuuko been with me for a good month now... He is naughty sometimes, barks a lot when excited (Corgi X, so its kinda expected).. Super friendly with people that its scary sometimes (As in you know, some people dont like dogs, and he doesnt seem to care about that, he try to greet EVERYONE on sight)... Like to Follow car.. (Yes, he jumped off curb twice! that gave me heart attack lol).. Knows where to pee (pee pad) As long as the pee pad is within sight, if not, he just doesnt seem to even care to look... Loves to chew! But funny thing is, he seems to chew old stuff only, like one of our old sofa that we will throw away anyways, and among 10 pair of shoes he always chew on the oldest dirtiest one, no idea why... And he have regular morning and night poo time, but in between, he is unpredictable... Tons of naughy behaviours he have, the only thing im unhappy about is the last one.. the unpredictable poo time... 

Why? Because the rest of his behaviours are predictable... I prefer predictable behaviours over anything; you know what to expect, and while he is not perfect, constant training over these behaviour will fix it slowly... Its easier to train on something you know than something that just happens out of nowhere...

I think that is the most important thing i expect from a puppy, a predictable pattern and behaviour...


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Hi!
> 
> The post about someone wanting to adopt a herd breed in her apt. got me to thinking on this topic.
> 
> ...


I have found that dogs brought to a new home are pretty much on their best behavior the first week, the first month or so actually. It's only after that they let themselves show more personality.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

TxRider said:


> I have found that dogs brought to a new home are pretty much on their best behavior the first week, the first month or so actually. It's only after that they let themselves show more personality.


I agree, my pup was the same. I assume, they are just a little bit shy and at the same time are getting used the house, the people and learning things like where their bed is and where they eat, etc.


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## LilMissSunshine (Nov 1, 2008)

lol I call this the "honeymoon stage", for the first couple of weeks, some puppies are DREAMS, no mess, no fuss, etc.. 

and then the honeymoon ends lol enjoy it while it lasts


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Yeah at day 10 he's no problem at all.. I really hope this lasts. I need to train him to do tricks. 

Today I trained him not to jump at treats. So I can now wave the nice cheese treat infront of his nose and he won't bite at it. This took me about 1 min to train him to do this. All I did was just pull the treat away and yell NOOO! when he tried to go for it. 

I tried not to yell as someone recommended and it didn't work. The louder I get, the more he 'gets it'. I should film myself doing it to show what I mean. The dog seems to sense the volume and act apon it.

The shake hands didn't work well after about 5 tries so I'd still like to try another method. He just isn't getting it. I dont want him to have too many treats so maybe i'm not going long enough for him to shake hands?


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

yes please post video of you screaming at your puppy...I'm sure we are all really dying to see that


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

While your dog did undoubtedly learn something from your screaming and apparently even happened to perform the response you wanted (do nothing), I would not go so far as to assume he's learning what you think he's learning.

Unless of course, you think he's learning that he's best off doing nothing unless told specifically otherwise. If you are one of those who likes that in a dog then congrats you are headed down that road at breakneck speed.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Shaina said:


> While your dog did undoubtedly learn something from your screaming and apparently even happened to perform the response you wanted (do nothing), I would not go so far as to assume he's learning what you think he's learning.
> 
> Unless of course, you think he's learning that he's best off doing nothing unless told specifically otherwise. If you are one of those who likes that in a dog then congrats you are headed down that road at breakneck speed.


We need the hail smiley on here... and a puke smiley might also be appropriate lately...


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Yeah at day 10 he's no problem at all.. I really hope this lasts. I need to train him to do tricks.
> 
> Today I trained him not to jump at treats. So I can now wave the nice cheese treat infront of his nose and he won't bite at it. This took me about 1 min to train him to do this. All I did was just pull the treat away and yell NOOO! when he tried to go for it.
> 
> I tried not to yell as someone recommended and it didn't work. The louder I get, the more he 'gets it'. I should film myself doing it to show what I mean. The dog seems to sense the volume and act apon it.


Of course he gets it, louder voice is a threat of violence.



> The shake hands didn't work well after about 5 tries so I'd still like to try another method. He just isn't getting it. I dont want him to have too many treats so maybe i'm not going long enough for him to shake hands?


You'll find it's easy to yell at a dog to teach it not to do something, not so easy to yell at a dog to get it to actually do something like a trick.

I can teach a dog not to bite at a treat from my hand without uttering a single sound in 5 minutes. No problem.



Here's one that might get him shaking hands in a day. As soon as he gets one step down reliably, move to the next. If he fails at a next step back up and repeat the last step a few more times and try again.

1: Take a really good treat, let the dog see/smell it, and close it in your hand. Hold your hand out palm up in a shake hands position but closed and encourage the dog to get the treat. Open your hand to tease him if needed but close it before he can get it. 

2: Let it try to figure out how to get the treat out a bit and get a little frustrated. If he paws your hand open it and let him have it and repeat a few times, and skip to step 5, if he just won't paw at your hand go to step 3.

3: Take dogs paw, set it on your closed hand, and slowly pull your hand away letting the dogs paw pull your hand open and the dog gets the treat.

4: If he's smart, 2-3 times of this and he'll be pawing your closed hand open for the treat.

5: Now do the same thing with an empty hand (don't let him know it's empty) and when he opens your hand, give him the treat with the other hand.

6: After a few times of this, open your hand right before he puts his paw on it to open it, and quickly treat with other hand, with much praise. He did his first "shake"....

You don't have to say shake, or any words at all so far doing this. Though a little bit of encouragement may be good.

7: Now it should take about 10 times of this adding the word shake as a command as repeat and your all done. Your dog shakes hands.

My 3 yr old rescue stray learned to shake hands using this method in one session of about 15 minutes, and in a couple of days has it down pat.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Anyone else notice the displacement sniffing on the video with the calling the puppy to come?
Mikedavid...for godssake do some reading on puppy training. All you are teaching your dog is to fear you. Respect and fear are NOT the same thing. You feed your puppy not great quality food, yell at him to get him to sit, he pees in the house 50 percent of the time because you don't know what you are doing. 
If you end up with a monster dog because of all this "auto yelling training" and end up with him in a shelter, since that seems to be your thoughts on dog misbehaviour, do realize that it will be because YOU ruined him. 
Your thoughts ARE worth 2 cents because you have made absolutely no attempt to learn anything here about dog training, dog behaviour or puppy care...you just want to brag that your dog is perfect. Pride goeth before the fall kiddo...but unfortunately your puppy will be the one who pays...(he's paying already)
If you don't know what a displacement sniff IS, look it up.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> No but I dont think it would be a wise idea to recommend to normal average dog owners to get a herding dog that will require a lot of training that the working owners will most likely not be able to give it. Thus it may get aggressive and end up at a shelter.


Herding dogs usually take the least amount of training as they are among the smartest dogs there are and learn very fast, and they are bred to work for humans, be very loyal and very protective. They bond very tightly with their owner.

All that makes them among the most trainable, and easiest to train dogs there are.

The problem is they are also bred to run and work hard and long, and need a lot of exercise or they will find their own ways to burn off mental and physical energy usually not in a way their owners will appreciate.



Cracker said:


> Anyone else notice the displacement sniffing on the video with the calling the puppy to come?


At the end? Looks like sniffing for a dropped treat to me. A little distracted in the beginning, but it's a puppy.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Cracker said:


> Anyone else notice the displacement sniffing on the video with the calling the puppy to come?
> Mikedavid...for godssake do some reading on puppy training. All you are teaching your dog is to fear you.


I actually made another video this afternoon and put it up hehe.. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMMupwzAu2M&fmt=22

It's to represent the mainstreme dog owners out there looking for a dog.

I put the treats on the floor because I dind't want him eating out of my hand so he's coming to get the treat that's why he's sniffing on the floor.

I got the cheese treats and he REALLY likes them. I really want to train him to shake hands..


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Sorry I didn't see the treats on the floor..

I'm curious why you don't want the puppy to take treats from your hand?


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

TxRider said:


> My 3 yr old rescue stray learned to shake hands using this method in one session of about 15 minutes, and in a couple of days has it down pat.


Wow thanks for the lesson!

I'm going to try this first thing tommorow. The dog is passed out right now on the floor.

What should I expect with a 3 month old puppy as far as training goes?



Cracker said:


> Sorry I didn't see the treats on the floor..
> 
> I'm curious why you don't want the puppy to take treats from your hand?


I did give him by hand at first, but then he always started to stare at my hand when doing the trick so when I put it on the floor he seems to stare up at me instead. 

The shaking hands is proving difficult. We tried it again tonight and it didn't work. We were using a youtube video method. We tried about 10 times and he didn't catch on so we'll try the other method. I hope he doesn't bit into my hand. I'd like him to use his paw to give me high 5.

Also the puppy seems to be in a zone where he's in the 'mood' for tricks. This seems to be after his first outside break in the morning. Right now he's very tired and passed out.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

Your second video made me lol on so many levels. Once again you've done nothing but show ignorance. Most dog enthusiasts don't have jobs? I think you'll find most of the people on this forum are currently employed, a lot of them full time.

Your conceptions on shelter dogs is completely skewed. And really any dog enthusiasts KNOWS that breeds aren't the same and have different requirements. I've seen people advise people away from their breed of choice on several occasions because it wasn't thought to be a good fit.

How about this, you have such a problem about with everyone here? Why not leave, you are NOT a mainstream dog owner, far from it.

Most people who want dogs expect to deal with shedding, drool, excercise, etc. Oh wait, I forgot you have the PERFECT puppy. lawls

Me and my girls, who just happen to be a herding breed mix AND a husky mix are going to have a good cuddle and relax. Or wait, maybe they should be destroying my house at this very moment. I'm going to have to have a serious talk with them about it.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Wow thanks for the lesson!
> 
> I'm going to try this first thing tommorow. The dog is passed out right now on the floor.
> 
> What should I expect with a 3 month old puppy as far as training goes?


It's just one way, worked for my girls.

What to expect depends on you and the dog. Depends on his ability to problem solve, and your patience and non verbal communication skill.

The method I posted is basically behavior shaping. Shaking hands is not a natural behavior.

I make it direct, food is in the hand, you know it, my body language and tone says it's ok to try to get it, so figure out how to get it, natural behavior. 

That means using paws or nose to directly get at the food, which -is- a natural behavior and building on it. A dog only has 2 choices, paws or nose/mouth you just have to show him which will get the food.

Once he knows paw on hand gets food, reinforce it, then change it a little and show him paw on closed hand gets food from other hand.

Once he learns that, change a little more to paw on open hand gets food from other hand.

Then you should be able to even go to paw on open hand gets food dropped on floor if you want.

Then paw on hand higher gets the food, then paw on high five hand gets food..

Baby steps, one building on the other, making sure he gets it before moving on.



> The shaking hands is proving difficult. We tried it again tonight and it didn't work. We were using a youtube video method. We tried about 10 times and he didn't catch on so we'll try the other method. I hope he doesn't bit into my hand. I'd like him to use his paw to give me high 5.


I would be interested to see that video.

If he gets teeth on your hand too much, which he might, pull your hand away and out of reach, with a gentle no, and wait a few seconds and let him try again. He should learn that teeth means loss of opportunity to get food and learn not to do it and probably start nosing more or pawing instead.

If he picks up a paw and touches your hand at all, open it. Repeat until he figures out the paw does it every time.

If he can't figure out to try to paw your hand in a few minutes, gently take his paw, put it on your hand, and pull your hand back in a way to let his paw pull your hand open and let him have the food. May take several times of this for him to catch on, but he likely will.

I taught Kaya the way I posted, she needed me to pick her paw up and put it on my hand and pull my hand back slowly so her paw opened it. After a several of those she started to figure it out and once she did she enthusiastically pawed my hand open 10-15 times in a row, and I moved on step by step.

Hope my other GSD was easier, she tried pawing right off the bat to get the treat from my closed hand.

I taught Hope to high 5, by just slowly using my hand higher and higher moving the shake into a high 5.



> Also the puppy seems to be in a zone where he's in the 'mood' for tricks. This seems to be after his first outside break in the morning. Right now he's very tired and passed out.


I find it best to stick to short session, and stay on one behavior for a few days until it's learned solid. And if they have had a tough session end it with something they know well. Shake is a good one.

Kaya got her first "play dead" lesson tonight, she's almost got it. She'll have it down in a couple of days.


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## Lizmo (Sep 21, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> I actually made another video this afternoon and put it up hehe..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMMupwzAu2M&fmt=22


This...is hilarious. Do you even hear yourself when you are saying these things? 

How can you say that if a Husky doesn't have HOURS of exercise then it won't be satisfied? Have you owned a Husky before? Have you talked with reputable Husky owners, breeders and trainers? 

You show a picture of your puppy just lying down with so many 'things' around your house for your puppy to chew. One, I would never leave those type of things out for a puppy to have the chance to get into. Two, I would be worried if my puppy had no interest in anything lying around - that would definitely give me warnings as to what type of temperment my pup might have later on. 

Okay, I have Border Collies and they are breed close to my heart. I have been researching Border Collies for a while now. I have a 1.5 year old Border Collie from _working_ lines. These dogs are not meant to be outside dogs. They were bred (yes, a long, long time ago) to work WITH the shepherd. If you research Border Collies today, the thing that most people say is good about the working line of Border Collies is they have an off switch. They do not need mental stimulation 24/7 - no dog does. They do not need to be exercised all day long or outside with no owner interaction - it will only lead to bad habbits. Have you done research on the Border Collie? Have you ever been or read the Border Collie Boards. I suggest you read them. Soon.
Oh, and you probably don't even want to know how old I am and what I do during the day - because my Border Collie is probably 'suffering' in your mind. Yes, my Border Collie is suffering, he does agility, obedience, and sees sheep on a regular basis. The horror of not having sheep to work everyday! 

On to the shelter part....how can you say that all older dogs in a shelter were 'returned' because of behavior problems? Have you never heard of dogs being given up because owners don't have enough money, have a baby, move, or get a 'new and better' dog? How can you make such statements? Have you worked in a shelter? If so, how long? How many shelters have you worked in? 

Have you ever seen a dog bite through a wall because the drive was so strong to catch a mouse? 

I would never, ever recommend a person considering what dog is right for them watch this video. Ever.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

This is why people like herding breeds...

Because the average owner can do this actually pretty easily....





















But yes if your a couch potato or a workaholic and have no time to go outdoors and play, or no time or motivation to educate their fabulous minds at all they are not for you, they are not decorations or furniture that you can just ignore and look at.

They want to do a job, any job, all you have to do is teach them what it is. Awesome with kids, will protect them with their lives.

As for shelter dogs, half of them are pure bred dogs, and you can get a dog of basically any breed at a shelter or rescue. Some fully trained.

One of mine was a breeders dog he neglected and almost starved to death, she was seized from him. She has issues from that yes, but mainly trust which was easily fixed.

The other a stray someone just dumped I think. She has been perfect, never peed in the house or pooped even once, hasn't chewed anything at all, and is smart as a whip. Her only real issue so far is fear of thunder.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

TxRider said:


> I find it best to stick to short session, and stay on one behavior for a few days until it's learned solid. And if they have had a tough session end it with something they know well. Shake is a good one.
> 
> Kaya got her first "play dead" lesson tonight, she's almost got it. She'll have it down in a couple of days.


Wow I'm so excited to start this! 

I'll take out the camcorder and try to film it. What we are doing now is just manually lifting up the dogs paws and feeding him while we are holding his paws. We saw this method on a Youtube video. It doesn't seem to be working though..


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

That third video reminds me of my late sheltie, Nikki.  She would often mimic what you said. Her favorite word though was 'Road Rovers' which was this old corny cartoon about dogs. She also 'sang' along to Very Merry Unbirthday. She was just a really cool dog.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

TxRider is right, sticking to a short lesson makes things better and I guess more "fun" for the puppy. Herrick already knows how to shake, high 5, roll over, play dead, sit, and stay. The key is, like many keep on saying, NOT to yell at your puppy. Everytime we want Herrick to do something, we never yell at him; we don't want him to be scared of us, because after all, he is a part of our family


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

Haha thanks for that video mikedavid...I needed a good laugh. You can't really think that way, I mean this has got to be a joke right? The guy in that video is just a character you play...right? You know "Mike the uninformed yet oh-so-pretentious new dog owner"...Wait that's really you? And you really actually believe what was spewed in that video? Wow... I take issue with 90% of what you've said so far in these forums but your statements concerning shelters and the dogs that come from shelters really stand out to me. Your opinion on shelter dogs is complete and total bulls***. You have *no idea* what you're talking about...none whatsoever. Saying that all shelter dogs are in that situation because they obviously have behavioral problems in *laughable*. That statement alone discredits anything else that you might have to say...and that's a good thing too because I was scared that some unknowing newbies might actually buy some of the crap that you're shoveling. After watching that video I'm confident that everyone will be able to clearly see just how clueless you really are. Please don't stop submitting the videos though...I think this place could use a little more comic relief.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

> How can you say that if a Husky doesn't have HOURS of exercise then it won't be satisfied? Have you owned a Husky before? Have you talked with reputable Husky owners, breeders and trainers?


I'm deaf so I have the divine blessing to not have to listen to that video. But really? Did he really say that? Wow. I must have really mistreated my Husky and Malamute.... and to think they looked like happy dogs. I must have been delusional!


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## Lizmo (Sep 21, 2009)

Yes, he said that.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> That third video reminds me of my late sheltie, Nikki. She would often mimic what you said. Her favorite word though was 'Road Rovers' which was this old corny cartoon about dogs. She also 'sang' along to Very Merry Unbirthday. She was just a really cool dog.


They remind me of my lab/border collie mix. She knew the walk up slow, backup, she knew all her toys by name, all the names of the rooms in the house, the names of most of the furniture, loved a good frisbee or fetch session and did every trick I could think of to teach her. That was pre internet though, or I would have taught her many more. 6wks old to 16 years old.

I miss her so, it took years for me to get another dog, and I catch myself calling my current dogs by her name now and then still.

She never did sing though, only speak.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

So, I just finished watching the video and could not stop laughing. Are you serious?? I mean, how can you have a straight face on when sounding so stupid and ignorant to everyone? I'm not saying I am a dog expert, but I know that I would NOT be giving that kind of advice out! I seriously feel sorry for your puppy, because like I have said before and many others on here have said it as well, the first minute your puppy does something you don't like, you'll probably take it to a shelter.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

RBark said:


> I'm deaf so I have the divine blessing to not have to listen to that video. But really? Did he really say that? Wow. I must have really mistreated my Husky and Malamute.... and to think they looked like happy dogs. I must have been delusional!


I love huskies and mals, but I don't think I would enjoy owning one.

I like the combination of tight bonding, smarts, working and protective nature of herding dogs too much. If I could get a good working herding dog with the nature of a border collie and the looks of a mal or huskie I would never own different dog.. 

Someone should establish a breed like that.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Laurelin said:


> That third video reminds me of my late sheltie, Nikki. She would often mimic what you said. Her favorite word though was 'Road Rovers' which was this old corny cartoon about dogs. She also 'sang' along to Very Merry Unbirthday. She was just a really cool dog.


I LOVED ROAD ROVERS. Tom Ruegger's work (Freakazoid, Hysteria!, Animaniacs) was all really solid, but really, crime-fighting, superintelligent dog superheroes? That was every tv show I wanted to watch ever.

No apologies for being OT, because the OP is the most persistently idiotic person I have ever come across on the internet, and this thread is much better spent discussing corny 90's cartoons.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

TxRider said:


> I love huskies and mals, but I don't think I would enjoy owning one.
> 
> I like the combination of *tight bonding, smarts, working* and protective nature of herding dogs too much. If I could get a good working herding dog with the nature of a border collie and the looks of a mal or huskie I would never own different dog..
> 
> Someone should establish a breed like that.


A Husky can provide all 3 of these... My 2 year old Nico never leaves my side, is _brilliant_, and loves being put to work. She may not be the best protection dog around but I think she makes up for that with plenty of other positive attributes.

I know you probably didn't mean for it to come across this way, but I read that sentence to say "I like good, smart dogs too much to ever own a Husky or Mal." Northern breeds are good for more than just their striking appearance...they're amazing dogs on so many different levels.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I think what TxRider means is they want a dog that isn't as independent as the Husky/Malamute breeds generally are. I wouldn't own one for the same reason. Don't like the independence. They are beautiful though.


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## yappypappymom (Oct 22, 2009)

TakeSomeAdvice ~ Please, TAKE SOME ADVICE!!!..

1.- FLAG this thread ASAP, & PRAY & BEG for a MOD to take mercy, & delete this thread!! (I am actually embarassed FOR you-you seem not to have the wit to be embarassed for yourself)

2.- REMOVE that malarkey vid. from YouTube!!

I have just WASTED 10 minutes of my life listening to you blather on & on, & on, yet, am STILL left wondering, -What exactly, in the hell, was your "motivation" to sit down & film yourself just babbling on like that for?? 

What you are doing is bring on -neg. attention to yourself; NO ONE left reading this thread, nor watching your videos, will be left thinking "gee..he is REALLY CLEVER"!!..it is actually quite the REVERSE!!

I am NO dog "expert", so, I will NOT go making stupid, pointless videos of myself & my "wonder pup" to ?ruffle feathers?...but, like you, I ALSO happen to have a 3 month old pup..he is now 13 weeks actually...at the risk of sounding rude, I am going to let you know that we began his training at 8 weeks..he learned his name, good, no, sit, look..I was pleased,..he then learned peek, shake, stay, come..I was even happier,..next came twist, tip-toes, ring bell,..I was amazed...next came leave it, easy, jump through hoop, speak, crawl...thats just in the 5 short weeks that I have had him. He is smart as a whip, yet, I have never felt compelled to make a video, nor dedicate a thread to his progress...oh, forgot to mention house trained to my list also..not just 50% either. 

...Want to know the "KICKER"???...it's ALL WITHOUT SOUND!!*except for the initial 2 "snaps" that I use to get his attention in the first place to "look"...
Soooo....there goes your ?expert opinion? on "YELLING AT HIM TO MAKE HIM LISTEN"...you say yourself how intelligent your pup is...why would you then in turn, insult the boy by proclaiming that he only listens when you get louder?? Come on...*shakes head*


I think that your pup is a really cute puppy-honestly-BUT, I think that you should be a bit more realistic...if your pup never acts up or makes mistakes, how then, can you relay to him that some things are "good", & other things he should "leave it" to??..there is NO "perfect puppy"..only perfect DOGS, that, have had LOTS & LOTS of training...GOOD training at that..


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Well I guess the answer is that you're a shockingly amazing dog owner who did the best research ever and is an absolute pro on everything related to raising dogs. Congrats to you!


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

yappypappymom said:


> I have just WASTED 10 minutes of my life listening to you blather on & on, & on, yet, am STILL left wondering, -What exactly, in the hell, was your "motivation" to sit down & film yourself just babbling on like that for??


Youtube makes it too easy for people to do that.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Yeah, but at least other wastes of time are amusing and make you lol as opposed to making you die a little inside...


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Xeph said:


> I think what TxRider means is they want a dog that isn't as independent as the Husky/Malamute breeds generally are. I wouldn't own one for the same reason. Don't like the independence. They are beautiful though.


Yup that's I meant.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

"Most dog enthusiasts don't have jobs"
"Choosing the right dog is important" YET you got yours from a BYB
"It's common sense that shelter dogs were given up due to behaviour problems"...
"no one told my friend about huskies before they got one"...um so your friend is as much of an ignoramus as you are? Birds of a feather.

That video is hilariously inept. 
Thanks for the laugh.

I don't find it funny though that when your puppy _does_ start acting like a normal dog (or a frightened one) that you will most likely relinquish him to shelter for behavioural issues. 

I'm not a psychic but I think we can all foresee problems in your puppy's future. But being "dog enthusiasts" we will likely be willing to help you for the pup's sake, but we will be happy to say "I toldya so". Maybe in a long babbling video on the Idiot's Village of Youtube....


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## peznite (Oct 21, 2009)

love this stuff. keep it going!


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

Here is the "low energy" Maltese in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_O2-r763h0


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Cracker said:


> I'm not a psychic but I think we can all foresee problems in your puppy's future. But being "dog enthusiasts" we will likely be willing to help you for the pup's sake, but we will be happy to say "I toldya so". Maybe in a long babbling video on the Idiot's Village of Youtube....


LMAO! Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your perspective), I doubt Mike will stick around long enough for us to hear the end of this story. Once the dog begins to misbehave or the cause of the lethargy is determined, he'll stay away for fear of "I toldya so" syndrome.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

> Most dog enthusiasts don't have jobs


I find this funny.

As I have 2 jobs.
A social life.
a family life
and a animal life.

Yet I still make plenty of time for my dog.
we still do agility.
dog parks
bike rides ect.

Adh doesnt get out eery day (we may miss a day or two a week) due to woring 2 jobs, and it being pitch dark here by 5:30pm now. Yet I still have a wonderfull stable dog. and a life.

The video is hiliarious. and just so terribly wrong in so mny ways.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Tankstar said:


> I find this funny.
> 
> As I have 2 jobs.
> A social life.
> ...


The majority of people cannot be bothered by dog parks. If they did, there would be thousands of people at nearby dog parks each night (no seriously). 

With all those things going on in a modern life, people place the dog as the last priority. 

You do not which places you in a minority of dog owners.

The point of the video is to tell mainstreme dog owners of the energry requirements of a dog and what will happen if they are not met. 

_Just because you personally place your dog high in your life priorities, it doesn't mean the majority of people do. _

When someone comes on this site asking about a breed or a casual question, I can assure you they are not dog enthusiasts and do *NOT* think of dogs the same way you do. 

These are the people I am speaking out to. Since not many here are those people, you don't udnerstand the message. It's like a fogeign language to you.

Examing the persons life first, then recommend a breed. 

Don't say 'well because i can do this, you should be able to also'.

If someone is not prepared to excersize and train their herding breed, they are going to have problems. Like.. who would disagree with that statement??


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> The majority of people cannot be bothered by dog parks. If they did, there would be thousands of people at nearby dog parks each night (no seriously).
> 
> With all those things going on in a modern life, people place the dog as the last priority.


If people are not going to make their dog a priority, they should not have a dog. Period. If you aren't going to make your dog a priority, why do you WANT a dog? Your view of mainstream dog owners seems to be people who will spend ZERO time on their dog. A dog does not have to be the number one top priority which causes everything else to suffer. But it is a LIVING THING that needs food, water, shelter. I would not recommend PLANTS to people that don't have time to make dinner for themselves.



> You do not which places you in a minority of dog owners.


Bullshit. The POINT of Tankstar's post was to illustrate that they have a life, and a dog, and both are doing very well thank you very much, sir.



> The point of the video is to tell mainstreme dog owners of the energry requirements of a dog and what will happen if they are not met.


Now you're just misspelling on purpose.



> _Just because you personally place your dog high in your life priorities, it doesn't mean the majority of people do. _


LIVING THING NEEDS THINGS TO LIVE



> When someone comes on this site asking about a breed or a casual question, I can assure you they are not dog enthusiasts and do *NOT* think of dogs the same way you do.
> 
> These are the people I am speaking out to. Since not many here are those people, you don't udnerstand the message. It's like a fogeign language to you.


How do you know what other people, especially people who have made a single post, are thinking? Also, you clearly don't know (and refuse to listen to) how people here view dogs. It's like a foreign language to you.



> Examing the persons life first, then recommend a breed.


Something you do not do, since you recommend dogs you like to people who's lifestyles are nothing like yours.



> Don't say 'well because i can do this, you should be able to also'.


Again, I see you doing this more than anyone else on the forum. However, the things that you seem to do for your dog is nothing, so you assume that people who come here want to do nothing with their dog as well.



> If someone is not prepared to excersize and train their herding breed, they are going to have problems. Like.. who would disagree with that statement??


The problem is not so much with the content of the statement, as the context. It's not just herding breeds that need exercise. It's every dog. It's not just herding breeds that need training. It's every dog. One sentence of half-truth does not excuse another 100 posts full of drivel.

You, sir, are an idiot. Good day.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> If someone is not prepared to excersize and train their herding breed, they are going to have problems. Like.. who would disagree with that statement??


Anyone who knows reality, that they are notoriously simple and easy to train, which makes them very good for inexperienced people to train, like young first time owners.

Like 6 of the top ten easiest to train and most intelligent breeds are herders.

http://www.petmedsonline.org/Top-10-easiest-to-train-dog-breeds.html

All they need is a good walk every day like any other dog, or a decent back yard all day, and eat up any active lifestyle they can get.

If you want to -never- walk your dog, or -never- train your dog, not many dogs will be happy and not have issues.

As well I think you vastly overestimate the people here and their dog devotion. Most are just average people who work, housewives, with the occasional "enthusiast" as you put it sprinkled in.

And as for an easy puppy, I personally think your having an "average" time with your puppy, nothing unusual or special, as much as you may want to believe your pup is out of the ordinary, it just isn't. 

Most pups are no problem. Horror stories are rare, the "mainstream" owner has about the same experiences you do really.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

RaeganW said:


> If people are not going to make their dog a priority, they should not have a dog. Period.


And THAT my friend, is the typical dog enthusiasts attitude. 

I'd like to tell any mainstream dog owners out there that the dog can be the last priority in your life and you can still own a dog. You just have to be reasonable with how much time you are able to give the dog. 

God put dog's on earth to be our best friend. So enjoy your dog, but make sure you pick the right dog with good advice from the right people.



> If you aren't going to make your dog a priority, why do you WANT a dog?


Because they love animals and love dogs? Which reason would you like?



> But it is a LIVING THING that needs food, water, shelter.


That's not all it needs. 

The dog really needs your TIME. And 1 breed might need much more of your time than another. Excersize is asking for your TIME. 

If you don't have time for dinner and order pizza 3 times a week becuase you are to busy to get groceries and cook, you will not have time to spend over an hour to get in the car and bring the dog to a dog park.

But can you have a dog? You certainly can. Can you have a puppy? Yes of course. 

Can you choose any breed? 

NO.



> The POINT of Tankstar's post was to illustrate that they have a life, and a dog, and both are doing very well thank you very much, sir.


That's great for her and her excellent time management skills and lifestyle. But this is not representative of everyone. 

Facts are actually, every single dog owner almost should be taking their dog to the dog park. If that was true, there would be THOUSANDS of people at the dog park. Luckily, many breeds can cope with just walks. Other breeds don't turn out so well.



> It's not just herding breeds that need exercise. It's every dog.


That's not necessarily true. A walk can suffice for many dogs. 


*Dave worked full time *and had a wife Nancy that worked full time with an empty house all day. The wife Nancy had soccer twice a week after work. Dave HATED his boss and ran home every day to have some beers after a grueling day at work. 

*Dave decided to adopt a Greyhound*. Problem was, he needed a fenced in area so had to go to dog park. This required him to have a car. He got home at 6:30 PM with all the gridlock and there was only so much time to drink before dinner. But since he was drinking, he couldn't drive so got his wife to bring the dog to the park (sound familiar guys?).

At the park this weird guy at the dog park started stalking his wife so she wanted him to go instead. But rather than go, he decided to drink and do it 'tommorow'. 

Other than that, the dog always got walked, fed well, and even slept in the bed with the owners.

The wife Nancy got a suprise when she found *her brand new pumps that she got for the Chistmas party totally chewed up*! So they ran out and got the doggie lots of nice toys that he really liked.

Time passed and things were well. Dave was still putting off taking the Greyhound to the dog park and it was starting to now become once a week if he was lucky. 

*One day Dave returned home *and to his AMAZEMENT his $2000 white leather sofa was chewed up to shreds. Dave flew off the handle and declared the dog had behavoiral problems and gave it away on Craigslist with an excuse that he was moving and couldn't take the dog with him. He pretended he got a new condo.

*Now where did everything start to go wrong? Chose one:

1. The owner
2. The dog
3. The person who recommended that he would be fine with a Greyhound. *
The answer is #3. At the time, Dave and Nancy didn't know anything. Not only did they love dogs so much, they decided to adopt a needing dog. 

But real life and realities got in the way. The owners could not reliably take out the dog for his needed excersize. 

12 years later they looked into trying again with another breed. Dave and Nancy later found out that the behavior was caused from the dog not getting exersise. 

Dave said _"If someone would have told me that we HAD to take out the dog to a public park 3 times a week for an hour, or else our furniture would be chewed up, then we would not have chose that dog. But no one told us that. All we heard and read was praise about the dog and how lazy they were so we thought we were doing the right thing." _

The moral of the story is, as a dog enthusiast, you will have to realize that a MAINSTREAM owner will place their furniture ahead of the dog. After all, no one wants their $3000 sofa set to get ruined. You also have to realize that they do not see the dog the same way you do. They will give what they feel is a reasonable best effort. Dave and Nancy let the dog sleep in their bed, walked it religiously, and fed it good food. But their lifestyles did not allow them to be at fenced in dog park. *The key is not to try to change Dave and Nancy *because as PEOPLE, they will not change for the dog. The key is to match Dave and Nancy with their perfect little friend. 

*REAL LIFE ENDING:*

Dave and Nancy got a Bichon Frise named Fluffy. They were so happy with the dog, they got a sister named Pearl as a friend. 


And the rest my firends, is dog hisotory:


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> If people are not going to make their dog a priority, they should not have a dog. Period. If you aren't going to make your dog a priority, why do you WANT a dog? Your view of mainstream dog owners seems to be people who will spend ZERO time on their dog. A dog does not have to be the number one top priority which causes everything else to suffer. But it is a LIVING THING that needs food, water, shelter. I would not recommend PLANTS to people that don't have time to make dinner for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*+1* Seriously great post


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

To mike...

Maybe that was because they didn't train it??????? Dogs have to be trained... They usually don't know what they can't chew on, that they can't use the bathroom in the house, etc. That have to be TAUGHT to not do that stuff and they DO need exercise. For instance.. Harleigh has always been a pretty chill girl (well to an extent), but if she doesn't get enough exercise in one day, she'll go totally crazy and run laps around the house. I have no problem with that, it actually amuses me sometimes! I like having energetic dogs. It's fun and keeps me more in shape.

And in the near future I'm planning on getting Vizsla.. You talk about an energetic dog, that's one right there and guess what? I cannot wait until I'm able to get one! 

But you know what? I'm actually researching the breed and making TOTALLY sure I'm able to give it all what it needs... That's what you have to do. You have to RESEARCH and then some...

So I would go with... #1. It was the owners fault for not training a dog and not paying attention to it.. JMO.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> there was only so much time to drink before dinner. But since he was drinking, he couldn't drive so got his wife to bring the dog to the park (sound familiar guys?).
> 
> At the park this weird guy at the dog park started stalking his wife so she wanted him to go instead. But rather than go, he decided to drink and do it 'tommorow'.
> 
> ...


There are so many things wrong with your post that I literally couldn't address them all but this part stood out to me. Your friend Dave is a lazy alcoholic and the dog had to suffer because of it. The dog should've been crated while they weren't there if it had a chewing problem. Dog owners like Dave aren't "mainstreme" they're ignorant, naive,and lazy. Nobody in these forums would ever suggest that someone like that adopt a greyhound.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> And THAT my friend, is the typical dog enthusiasts attitude.


Ok, here's that context thing again. That means that things have different meanings based on the words around them. Notice how I said A priority and not THE priority. In fact, I made it a point to explain what I meant since I knew you would harp on that. Fact is, your life will change if you add a dog. Your life will change if you add anything to your life. That's just how things work. If you add something, you've changed the situation and that's going to affect other things. A dog does need time. The amount of time in a day hasn't changed, so that means that something else is going to need less time. When I got a dog, I started spending less time on the internet and watching tv so I would have time to train, exercise, and enjoy my dog. I come home from school in the middle of the day to let him out. I come home earlier so we can play at night. I have made my dog a (not the, notice I didn't say I stopped hanging out with my friends completely, or dropped out of school) priority in my life so he has a good one as well.



> I'd like to tell any mainstream dog owners out there that the dog can be the last priority in your life and you can still own a dog. You just have to be reasonable with how much time you are able to give the dog.


I love video games. I make it a priority in my life to play an hour of video games. Should the dog be under video games on my priority list? No, because it is a living thing and it's hierarchy of needs are higher than that of the Wii, even though it yells at me if I don't play it often enough.

People are still higher than the dog. This summer I went on a camping trip. One of the kids that came with is allergic to dogs. What did I do? I gave my neighbor five bucks to let him out a couple times and went camping with people.



> God put dog's on earth to be our best friend. So enjoy your dog, but make sure you pick the right dog with good advice from the right people.


Which you are not. People here have had dogs longer than you or I have been alive. Those are the right people. Having less knowledge does not make you better suited to give advice. You're putting in hardware floors. Who do you want helping you along, a professional or a "mainstream" home renovator?



> Because they love animals and love dogs? Which reason would you like?


I've loved dogs my entire life. I went eight years without one because I had not the time, money, nor ability to care for another living thing properly. Love is not enough. It is good, but love is not all you need.

And seque...



> That's not all it needs.
> 
> The dog really needs your TIME. And 1 breed might need much more of your time than another. Excersize is asking for your TIME.
> 
> ...


Again, it's not a matter of computing "this is how much time I have, this is what kind of dog I can have." How much are you willing to change your life for the dog you really want? The people who wanted a St. Bernard did their research, knew what they wanted and decided they can handle that. That is COMMENDABLE. If you order pizza three times a week and have no interest changing your lifestyle, you should rethink your decision to get a dog. If you order pizza three times a week and want a dog to encourage you to get out more often and leave work earlier, then perhaps. 

A good friend of mine got a Brittany last year. She works fulltime. Since getting the dog she has been staying late late into the night less because she has to get home to the dog. This is good for her, because people are taking less advantage of her. "Oh, you aren't married, you can stay late to work on this project." The dog is a priority in her life, and enriches it.



> That's great for her and her excellent time management skills and lifestyle. But this is not representative of everyone.
> 
> Facts are actually, every single dog owner almost should be taking their dog to the dog park. If that was true, there would be THOUSANDS of people at the dog park. Luckily, many breeds can cope with just walks. Other breeds don't turn out so well.


Actually many people here don't like dog parks. And no one is arguing that one breed does not fit all owners. At the same time though, dogs are not split into herding dogs and white dogs with black pigment. It's a scale with many different facets. Some dogs need less physical exercise but more mental. Some are the other way around. Some dogs need lots of grooming, and others need less at home grooming but more professional care. Others need both in-home upkeep and professional care. Others need a bath every couple of weeks. There's more than one thing that goes into determining what kind of dog to get. 



> That's not necessarily true. A walk can suffice for most dogs.


A walk will suffice most dogs, but few will thrive on walking the same path around the block day after day.



> *Dave worked full time*and had a wife Nancy that worked full time with an empty house all day. The wife Nancy had soccer twice a week after work. Dave HATED his boss and ran home every day to have some beers after a grueling day at work.
> 
> *Dave decided to adopt a Greyhound*. Problem was, he needed a fenced in area so had to go to dog park. This required him to have a car. He got home at 6:30 PM with all the gridlock and there was only so much time to drink before dinner. But since he was drinking, he couldn't drive so got his wife to bring the dog to the park (sound familiar guys?).
> 
> ...


All I got from this was "Dave drank and didn't take his dog out to run around." And when your drinking starts to impact your life, well that's the definition of an alcoholic. Dave and Nancy did not get good advice from the right people, because a greyhound is a racing dog. They are known to need spurts of intense energy. Maybe if they had asked the dog enthusiast, they could have started with the Bichon Frise.

*Edited To Add:* Are those Bichons supposed to be Fluffy and Pearl? Because you hotlinked the picture from http://www.freewebs.com/kerdazel/ and they seem to think those dogs' names are Kelly and Kia. Which leads me to believe you made the story up to advance your agenda. While nice as an allegory (I appreciated the references to your unique views on alcoholism), you undermine yourself by setting it as real life dog "hisotory."


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Great posts, guys!


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## ~jessie~ (Nov 5, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> And THAT my friend, is the typical dog enthusiasts attitude.
> 
> I'd like to tell any mainstream dog owners out there that the dog can be the last priority in your life and you can still own a dog. You just have to be reasonable with how much time you are able to give the dog.
> 
> ...


Well, Dave is obviously a lazy alcoholic. Maybe he should concentrate on getting himself into AA meetings first and foremost. 

No dog needs to go to dog parks. Greyhounds are actually pretty lazy dogs, and are content with walks.

And btw, that's a stolen image and neither one of those dogs is named "Fluffy" or "Pearl." Obviously this story is complete BS and you're trying to pass it off as being truthful. lol. Wow.

After watching your alcoholic video on Youtube, it seems as though you think that everyone drinks half a bottle of alcohol between getting home from work and dinner. And when you said "sound familiar, guys?", well, NO, it doesn't. MOST people don't rush home to drink every day. It's pretty pathetic if you get sloshed before dinner everynight.

Maybe you should get some help, Mike. Your posts don't even make logical sense.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

... Wow. I'm loving all the bashing of herding breeds and shelter dogs, all the blanket statements, and the "I know everything" attitude lol. Nobody knows everything. Mike, have you, by any chance, personally owned a herding breed or a shelter dog, or worked with either in the area of training, to know all that you know about them? Just curious.

I guess a little drama on the forum every now and then keeps it alive... Even though I'm getting constant IMs and e-mails full of complaints about this current drama. <_<


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

~jessie~ said:


> Well, Dave is obviously a lazy alcoholic. Maybe he should concentrate on getting himself into AA meetings first and foremost.
> 
> No dog needs to go to dog parks. *Greyhounds are actually pretty lazy dogs, and are content with walks.*
> 
> And btw, that's a stolen image and neither one of those dogs is named "Fluffy" or "Pearl." Obviously this story is complete BS and you're trying to pass it off as being truthful. lol. Wow.


This is so true. I've raised a greyhound from 6 weeks and chewing was _never_ a big problem. Greys are just about the most docile animals in the world, which just supports the notion that Mainstreme's story was completely fabricated. He picked a breed that, in his mind, is high energy and therefore a menace...sad.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

This is the funniest thread ever as long as you don't actually take this guy seriously.


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## HersheyBear (Dec 13, 2008)

Um. Why get a dog in the first place if it's lowest on your priority list? 
Dogs - and cats, and other animals - need training, socialization, and attention. You cannot get a dog for the sake of getting a dog, and only pay attention to it for a short time each day. Especially a puppy or kitten, which is like a human baby - new to the world and needs its caretaker to teach it how to interact with its environment.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> But real life and realities got in the way. The owners could not reliably take out the dog for his needed excersize.
> 
> ......
> 
> ...


Hmm according to AKC...



> Right Breed for You?
> 
> The Bichon is a naturally gentle, playful dog. He loves activity *and requires regular exercise. "*


You really should stop while your behind...


Most people here argue against taking your dog to dog parks.

I have two large herding breed dogs, they get a couple of walks a day, and could live on one walk a day just fine.


My latest herding dog is not allowed out for a walk for a month.

I have only had her from the rescue for a month, she hasn't had any exercise for a week now at all.

Not only has she not harmed a thing in my house, but she has never pooped or peed on my floor a single time since the day I brought her home, a stray, from a rescue, and I'm at work 8 hours a day.

Can you say that about your perfect pooch?



nico8 said:


> This is so true. I've raised a greyhound from 6 weeks and chewing was _never_ a big problem. Greys are just about the most docile animals in the world, which just supports the notion that Mainstreme's story was completely fabricated. He picked a breed that, in his mind, is high energy and therefore a menace...sad.


Yeah he might have read up about greyhounds before making up that story...

As greyhounds are classified as low exercise requirements, the exact same exercise requirements of the fluffy Bichon...  And a few herding breeds as well.

My herders are medium exercise requirements.

ROFL..

http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/resources/breed_profiles/dogs/sort_by_exercise.htm

This just gets funnier and funnier.

Here's a real life story for you Mike...

http://www.dogforums.com/3-dog-training-forum/64318-why-so-hard-potty.html


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Additionally, he's starting to contradict himself. Getting sloppy, Mike. In your eagerness to "destroy us from the inside," you've started slipping up. Greyhounds are one of the five breeds he recommends to the "mainstream" (I will not belittle myself by misspelling on purpose) dog owner! Where "mainstream" is someone who can't be bothered to take care of a dog but wants one anyway.



mikedavid00 said:


> My whole opinion on this is based off the context of a mainstreme dog owner. A casual dog owner. There are tons and tons of them on Youtube.
> 
> ---
> 
> I dont know what else to say but *I would get ONLY Greyhounds, Whippets, and Poodle/Maltese/Havenese/Bichon breeds and mixes for myself*. I probably would never own another breed except the above.


As the prototypical dog owner, hypocritical, much?


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> the dog can be the last priority in your life and you can still own a dog.
> 
> God put dog's on earth to be our best friend.


Man, I'm glad I'm not your friend! Really? Your best friend is your _last_ priority? 

Is the beer your first priority?


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> And THAT my friend, is the typical dog enthusiasts attitude.
> 
> I'd like to tell any mainstream dog owners out there that the dog can be the last priority in your life and you can still own a dog. You just have to be reasonable with how much time you are able to give the dog.
> 
> ...


What a crock of BS!!! I would go ahead and point out the several mistakes you made in this "real" story of yours, but everyone else has already done that and I could not stop laughing. Great job everyone . It seems like you come back with even more stupid things to say than the previous day mike. It seems like your dog is last on your priority list and you should seriously not have a dog, like many people have already told you. I know that what I write or what everyone else writes is not going to matter to you, because you're just going to ignore it and come up with something even more stupid to say.


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

mikedavid00 said:


> The majority of people cannot be bothered by dog parks. If they did, there would be thousands of people at nearby dog parks each night (no seriously).
> 
> With all those things going on in a modern life, people place the dog as the last priority.
> 
> ...


If the majority of dog owners put their dogs as the very last priority of their lives, I wouldn't have a job.

I meet tons and tons of dog owners every day. It's quite obvious that some people are willing to do more for their dogs than others, but out of all of our clients I have yet to meet one that put their dog on the very bottom on the list of priorities. If they did place their dogs on the bottom of their priorities, they certianly wouldn't be spending $100+ on their dog at the vet a year.

Why would you even want a dog if you were only going to put it on the bottom of your priorities list? What's the point of having a dog that you don't have the time for? I just don't understand that at all....

It's one thing to argue about a dog's behavior when you actually know something about that breed or have experience with shelter dogs... but you don't, do you? Go hang out at your local shelter... spend some time getting to know the dogs there... find out how many are really there because of their behavior.


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## Trixie (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm a wine enthusiast as well as a dog enthusiast. The idea that someone has to drink and then cannot take their dog out is, well, all I can say is that is pretty much a sure sign of a deeper problem.

Dog comes first, then the wine. Sometimes, the wine enthusiasts get together with their dogs so we can drink wine and the dogs can play.

But still, the dog is the priority.

If you cannot prioritize the needs of the dog, don't own a dog. It really is as simple as that. What joy can you get from the dog if you don't want to make him/her a priority? Happiness comes from the things we work at.


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

mikedavid00 said:


> Examing the persons life first, then recommend a breed.
> 
> Don't say 'well because i can do this, you should be able to also'.
> 
> If someone is not prepared to excersize and train their herding breed, they are going to have problems. Like.. who would disagree with that statement??


And we all ask questions.
what is your dog experince.
how much tme a day do you have for excrsising a dog?
what type of training will they do?
what grooming requirments do the want/can handle?

and many other questions.

Your problem is you seem to think herding breeds are some crazy go go go breed. Excersising the body is not the only way to tire out a dog. I could do 15mins of aglity traiing on one specific thing. and Blaze would be exhausted by all he thinking.

I can get by with a 20min bike ride (roughly 5km's) with Blaze a day and he would be fine all the ret of th day. I personally choose not to. as I loe hiking, so we do it every day. He doesnt need too, to be happy. But he does enjoy it as muh as I do.

I havem may friends who have breeds you woul tell them notto havedue to theirliestyle. ye theirgs get lot of excersise and are happy andd hs a pitty and a akita/shephrd/husky mix. all in a small apatment. both dos are stble and fine.

I have another friend with 3 huskies ina apartment. again, all fine and happy. ad theydont et hou o excersis a da.

There may be sandrads and guid line to go by within dobreeds. bu most are a exceptn ofthe actual rule. majority of dogs woul be ine with half he amount of excersie the standard says the breed needs.

Any dog of any breed. fro our designer dog to a husky willbe bad and destroy thin, brk, jump, be bad with out proper traiin and excersise and guidence.


Sorry for al th speling mistakes. this keybored is pretty much dead



> Facts are actually, every single dog owner almost should be taking their dog to the dog park. If that was true, there would be THOUSANDS of people at the dog park. Luckily, many breeds can cope with just walks. Other breeds don't turn out so well.


N not at all. majority of dogs houl not be at dog parks.

I go with my dog, but I only go becase it is 25 acres of field, plus backs on to 100's of acres of woods. so I hide out with people I know and their dogs, way out in the woods. we dont run in to any on else. I do not want to meet new dogs, my dog has enough friends. majority of dogs at dog parks should never ever be there


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## Priss and Pedro's Mama (Nov 4, 2007)

mikedavid00 said:


> *Dave decided to adopt a Greyhound*. Problem was, he needed a fenced in area so had to go to dog park. This required him to have a car. He got home at 6:30 PM with all the gridlock and *there was only so much time to drink before dinner*. But since he was drinking, he couldn't drive so got his wife to bring the dog to the park (sound familiar guys?).
> 
> At the park this weird guy at the dog park started stalking his wife so she wanted him to go instead. *But rather than go, he decided to drink and do it 'tommorow'. *
> 
> ...


No. You are wrong. 100% wrong. The answer is the owner is at fault. If you, as a thinking, rational human, choose to bring a living being into your home, YOU are responsible for the outcome. Personal responsibility. It isn't anyone's fault but the owner that the dog chewed the couch. I'm pretty sure Dave didn't tell the rescue/breeder that he was a lazy bum who much prefered to sit back and drink beers than spend more than 30 seconds a day with his dog.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Lol the dog story was completely fabricated. 

Actually it was taken from someones experience with a Beagle I believe. I remember the story.. but everything else was made up. The story has a moral: 

They were good dog owners, but they just had the wrong breed. They were willing to change their lifestyle, but only to a ceratin extent (like most people).

When you take on a Bernard, you will have to change your lifestyle a LOT.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Lol the dog story was completely fabricated.
> 
> Actually it was taken from someones experience with a Beagle I believe. I remember the story.. but everything else was made up. The story has a moral:
> 
> ...


MIKE THEY WERE NOT GOOD DOG OWNERS!!!!!!! Sorry for the caps but I don't know how else you may listen. How can you say some one who prioritizes alcohol before a living thing(dog) is a good owner?! The guy in your story is obviously an alcoholic. And YES it is the owner's fault that the couch was ripped apart even if it was fiction. They should have rehomed the dog when they realized that they didn't want to take the dog out not after it ruined the couch.

Also, please take your puppy to the vet! Has he had his shots? Did you get around to buying him that Pro Plan yet? Are you transitioning him from Iams to pro plan correctly? Or is it safe to assume he's having diarrhea by now?


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## mrslloyd09 (Jul 12, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Lol the dog story was completely fabricated.
> 
> Actually it was taken from someones experience with a Beagle I believe. I remember the story.. but everything else was made up. The story has a moral:
> 
> ...


Doesn't change the fact that the owner's to blame and you should have just left the story with the beagle for believability's sake. Beagles are high energy, mischief makers who need a lot of structure but had this person (still not believing they exist) even BOTHERED to put down the bottle and make a trip to at least the library, they might have schooled themselves and not acted a fool.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Trixie said:


> I'm a wine enthusiast as well as a dog enthusiast. The idea that someone has to drink and then cannot take their dog out is, well, all I can say is that is pretty much a sure sign of a deeper problem.
> 
> Dog comes first, then the wine. Sometimes, the wine enthusiasts get together with their dogs so we can drink wine and the dogs can play.


There are good intentions for him to bring the dog to the park, but after 2 beers you cannot drive. If someone comes back at 6:30pm, and dinner is at 7:30pm, the Mr. of the house is going to want his beers (or wine) before dinner.. He doesn't want to load the car with the Greyhound and take him to a the dog park for an hour when he wants to relax after work. Thus, the dog is a last priority.

That kid the other day gave away his dog just from pooing in the house. To many people that is enough to have them out. 

In the family pack, the dog comes last. The house, car, kids, family, and well being of the above come first, the dog usually places last. 

To a dog enthusiest, I have heard them say that they would rather their dog live than someone elses child. During *huricain Katrina*, look at how the dog enthusiasts killed themselves trying to save their dogs. That is NOT how the mainstreme dog owners place dogs in their lives. 

Remember the greyhound needs a fenced in location which means you usually have to drive to one. There will always be a lot of dog owners there with their dogs.

People usually have their drinks, and then walk their dogs after having a few. That must be fun and something I'm going to try when the dog gets his second shots next week. I can drink and socialize with the other dog owners. Everyone has a dog in our neighbourhood.. the hair on the poodles and such are always matted though. Our dog just had a bath and shampoo. He's a FLUFF BALL! Hehehe.. I'm going to order a pro $80 slicker brush for him. 

I got the *Hartz whitenning shampoo*, took a scrub brush (meant for cleaning bathrooms and such) and SCRUBBED that shampoo into the coat!!! It's so white right now OMG we got that so white. We blowdried with slicker brush and man.. FLUFF BALL. It's the maltese/poodle/puppy coat.. I should have taken a picture.

Also I haven't had a drink since last Sunday when I had 2 bottles of beer. I also want to try to brew my own wine. I dont know why I'm being accused of being an alchoholic...  

When a guy is working construction all day, and has cold, cold beers in the fridge on a hot summers day, the beer is going to win hands down over taking the dog to the park for his manditory excersize.

The dog really has to suit a families lifestyle.

I urge you guys to keep in mind the mainstreme dog owners. 

Oh the dog is shaking hands.. he almost has it. Maybe 7-8 min total training. The cat and the dog are beginning to play together.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

HURRICANE...WHITENING...ALCOHOLIC (I guess you couldn't even spell that since you already had a few)...MANDATORY...and like everyone keeps telling you, MAINSTREAM.

1. Learn how to spell or at least use spell check

2. I really hope you're kidding about using a bathroom scrubber to put the shampoo on your dog, but at this point, I think you're that stupid to actually use it on him.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Mike, I would like to know your credentials. I assume you are qualified to be giving out advice to potential dog owners?


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

Mike, I'm glad you're taking your puppy to the vet. What is his name by the way? You have not told us. Also. You mentioned the example of a construction worker coming home for a couple beers on a summer's afternoon. That is the exact description of my father. And yes my father is an alcoholic. Our family has been on the verge of breaking up because of it. But I will not wander into that.
You know what my dad does though? He drinks his beers with his dog. They hang out in the yard or he takes her out front while he drinks and RELAXES. And trust me that dog is no where near the top of his priority list. And she is a chow/lab mix, not that you know what either of those are.


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## mikedavid00 (Oct 15, 2007)

Terrie said:


> Also, please take your puppy to the vet! Has he had his shots? Did you get around to buying him that Pro Plan yet? Are you transitioning him from Iams to pro plan correctly? Or is it safe to assume he's having diarrhea by now?


Hi!

Yes we found a low cost vet and he'll be getting his shorts next Sat for $46 plus tax. If anyone is in the GTA area, it's called the Bloor Kippling Animal Hospital. They have the lowest prices. We also inquired about dew claws removal. Also the cat is going to be taken in to get declawed to get that over with.

Yup the dog has moved from Iams to Purina Pro Plan. They look and smell almost identical. I picked Pro Plan after lots of research because this breeder of 30 years swears up and down that it's the best for coats. She breeds and shows dogs. The poop it's producing is also nice and hard also. The cheese treats though have made his poo (and seemingly pee) more stinky.

I just did a hard switch from one food the next and he never had diariah once. He loves both food the same.

The cat is another story. More finicky and unfortunately she's peeing more since the dog has been here. Cat pee really stinks. I just hope it stops because the smell can soak into the wood and stay. 

The dog is afraid of the cat though.. he'll act brave and come close to the cat and then run away hehe.. the cat will just sit and stare. The cat has only hissed once. We thought it was going to be much worse. 

We also installed a cat flap in the laundry room because the dog was going in and eating the cat food. The cat is using the flap now heheh.. 

Oh the dog also drinks from the toilet so now we have to close the bathroom door too. That's probably the worst behavior he has.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

ladyshadowhollyjc said:


> If the majority of dog owners put their dogs as the very last priority of their lives, I wouldn't have a job.


This. 

I work at a store where our customers view their dogs as part of the family. We don't make money because of a few customers, we make money because most dog owners want to do what's best by their dog. We offer services, products and solutions to people who actually care about their dogs.

I have customers who foster, who rescue, who are very involved in training. I also have clients who just got the dog and are overwhelmed. Sometimes I have clients who think differently than I do on important issues. But they all do what needs to be done by the dog. 

None of my clients would choose drinking beers every night over interacting and exercising with their dogs. Many of my clients meet us at the dog park every day. Again this is a multinational chain store that services "mainstreme" dog owners. 

Most people put the dog as part of the family, and are not going to pick beer over the dog. That is messed up. 

I work 40+ hours a week. My boyfriend who lives with me works 70+ sometimes. We still find time to give the dogs hours of exercise, and go out and have fun with our friends. We save the beer for nighttime, after the dogs are in crates. It's common sense.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

I know this is Dog forum but concerning your cat. Please please do not declaw him. That is a very painful surgery for them and if he ever needs to defend himself he will lose. Can't you buy a scratching post or something? Also, the cat pees on the floor? Don't you have a litter box? It should be instinct for the cat to go potty in the litter box as they like to bury their poo and pee.

Also, for the treats if the cheese isn't sitting well for the puppy. You can try Zuke's Mini Naturals. I recently bought them for my puppy. (about 5 bucks for 6oz) And they come in peanut butter flavor. They are also soft and you can break them into small pieces if you want to be conservative.


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## HersheyBear (Dec 13, 2008)

Please do not declaw your cat. The declaw surgery is the amputation of not just the claw, but the entire digit itself - bone, nerve, and nail. It is a painful and traumatic recovery period, especially for a grown cat.

Since cats naturally walk on their toes, a declawed cat has to adjust its stride to walk. Arthritis is common in declawed cats. A declawed cat is also sensitive on their feet, and it's common for a declawed cat to not use the litterbox because the feel of the litter under its paws is painful. 

As a declawed cat does not have its first line of defense, they will commonly bite in retaliation, whereas a cat with claws will generally do a few quick swats before dashing off.

I have five 100% indoor cats and a large breed dog - none of my cats are declawed, and I have seen first hand how the procedure is done, and have seen declawed cats surrendered to the animal shelter for behavioral issues. The dog was raised to respect the cats, and has never once hurt the cats, or vice versa. 

As far as the urinating out of the box goes, you need to bring him to the vet for a health check first to make sure that there are no underlying medical conditions. Urinating out of the box is a symptom of a UTI, and the more serious condition Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disorder (FLUTD). Cats with FLUTD form crystals in their urine , which can cause a life threatening urinary blockage. My male cat has this condtion and it can be managed with diet change and a diligent owner who observes litterbox behavior.

If it is not a medical issue, then it's behavioral. More than likely the arrival of the puppy has stressed and frightened the cat. Make sure that the cat has a safe-room that it can go to, where the puppy is not allowed to access. The litter box should be in a private area where the cat doesn't feel threatened by the puppy or a lot of people coming and going.

There is a product called Feliway, sold at stores like Petco and also at the veterinarian, that releases a feline pheramone that helps calm an agitated cat.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

Agreeing on the cat declaw. I always thought it was no big deal until my ex and I had it done to his cat. I will never do anything like that again. It was awful. He was so stressed he eliminated all over himself for days. His paw fur was messed up for life, it looked like he was flipping you off.


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## sassykzt (Oct 25, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Yes we found a low cost vet and he'll be getting his shorts next Sat for $46 plus tax. If anyone is in the GTA area, it's called the Bloor Kippling Animal Hospital. They have the lowest prices. We also inquired about dew claws removal. Also the cat is going to be taken in to get declawed to get that over with.
> 
> ...



So you chose a vet based on price??? Do you have any references? Personal recommendations? Did you or do plan on interviewing the vet that will treat your dog?? ( Please do not tell me you are to busy drinking!) 

Are you cleaning up the cat pee??? It won't soak in the wood & stay if your cleaning is diligent w/ the proper cleaning products.

Puppy proofing the house BEFORE you bring home a puppy is a must-- I noticed in your videos that because of the remodeling you have a lot of dangerous stuff lying around.  Maybe instead of making your own beer, drinking, and taking all that time to make all the videos, you could make your home a safer environment for your puppy!


Just out of curiosity, why did you get a dog???? I am not even going to comment on the fake pics of the Bichons and the B.S. story that went along with it. Do you realize that you lost *all *respect and credibility with that post? I think you owe everyone an apology!


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> There are good intentions for him to bring the dog to the park, but after 2 beers you cannot drive. If someone comes back at 6:30pm, and dinner is at 7:30pm, the Mr. of the house is going to want his beers (or wine) before dinner.. He doesn't want to load the car with the Greyhound and take him to a the dog park for an hour when he wants to relax after work. Thus, the dog is a last priority.


Many people have these things called a back yard, where I would go sit in a chair drinking that cold beer and tossing a ball to exercise my border collie mix after work to chill out, playing with my buddy.

Millions of people have a back yard, mainstream people, you should read up on it. I'd say about 90% of the people in my city do, probably 90% of the people in my state do.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Ok. While my brain is breaking over here, I am going to do my very best to respond to all this calmly and rationally.



mikedavid00 said:


> Lol the dog story was completely fabricated.


Then maybe you shouldn't tout it as real, hmm? Also, hotlinking steals bandwidth. Or have you been on the internet ten days as well?



> Actually it was taken from someones experience with a Beagle I believe. I remember the story.. but everything else was made up. The story has a moral:
> 
> They were good dog owners, but they just had the wrong breed. They were willing to change their lifestyle, but only to a ceratin extent (like most people).
> 
> When you take on a Bernard, you will have to change your lifestyle a LOT.


WAAAAY more believable with a beagle. Different breeds = different needs. Which you harp on, except when it isn't convenient. You making up stories is going to hold very tiny amounts of water. No one here is really buying your line. Embellishing generally works better when you have a leg to stand on. 

Choosing booze over LIVING THINGS is not being good dog owners. At least he was not driving drunk, I'll give this fictional man that. It is not up to you to determine how much other people are willing to change their lives. The pure fact that someone comes on an internet forum for dog enthusiasts implies that they are not your version of mainstream dog owners and that they are attempting to do their breed research. 

Like Jesirose said, most people want to do right by their dogs. By and large, dogs have become inside members of the family. That in and of itself says a lot. How many billions of dollars are spent on pets yearly? I guarantee you most of that does not come from the kind of people you call "dog enthusiasts." It comes from people who love their pets.



mikedavid00 said:


> There are good intentions for him to bring the dog to the park, but after 2 beers you cannot drive. If someone comes back at 6:30pm, and dinner is at 7:30pm, the Mr. of the house is going to want his beers (or wine) before dinner.. He doesn't want to load the car with the Greyhound and take him to a the dog park for an hour when he wants to relax after work. Thus, the dog is a last priority.


 drinks from the toilet so now we have to close the bathroom door too. That's probably the worst behavior he has.[/QUOTE]

I ask you again, why get a dog if you are not going to make the dog a priority? If you don't enjoy exercising, walking, and playing with your dog, why are you getting one?

If a thing you spend at least a hundred dollars a year on (let's say a 20$ bag of food every six months, 20$ of toys and treats every three months, and 50$ of vet bills yearly, plus another 30$ yearly for licensing, replacing things destroyed, and unexpected costs for $140 a year - and these are extremely conservative numbers) not to mention another hundred start up costs ($50 for a Craig's list dog, plus $25 for a crate, plus $25 for bowls, leashes, and brushes) is a lower priority than a $10 30-pack of beer (two beers a night seven days a week, fifty two weeks a year is $280 of beer) or a $7 premium six pack (two 6-packs a week, fifty two weeks a year is $728), then I envy your disposable income.

What's that? You're drinking to self-medicate your anxiety? You know what else lowers anxiety, blood pressure, and adds years to your life? Petting a dog. And it doesn't give your liver a beating.



> That kid the other day gave away his dog just from pooing in the house. To many people that is enough to have them out.


Kids should not have dogs to teach them responsibility. Parents should have dogs because they love dogs, and want to share that love and compassion with their children.



> In the family pack, the dog comes last. The house, car, kids, family, and well being of the above come first, the dog usually places last.


Not everyone deserves a dog. If you're having trouble balancing these things, get a DS and Nintendogs. It costs less in the long and short run.



> To a dog enthusiest, I have heard them say that they would rather their dog live than someone elses child. During *huricain Katrina*, look at how the dog enthusiasts killed themselves trying to save their dogs. That is NOT how the mainstreme dog owners place dogs in their lives.


Cite your sources sir! After admitting to making up the story about the greyhound/beagle, why should this anecdote have any validity behind it either?



> Remember the greyhound needs a fenced in location which means you usually have to drive to one. There will always be a lot of dog owners there with their dogs.
> 
> People usually have their drinks, and then walk their dogs after having a few.


No, that's not what people usually do. Responsible people take care of the things they are responsible for before indulging their vices. This is why children should not be the sole caretaker of a dog, they are not mature enough to put other things ahead of themselves.



> That must be fun and something I'm going to try when the dog gets his second shots next week. I can drink and socialize with the other dog owners. Everyone has a dog in our neighbourhood.


I would recommend being sober the first time your dog meets the neighborhood dogs. You never know how he'll react, and if something does happen I would want to be at the top of my game. That isn't to say that you cannot enjoy a few when you know your dog is good with others, in fact that does sound like an enjoyable experience. 



> the hair on the poodles and such are always matted though. Our dog just had a bath and shampoo. He's a FLUFF BALL! Hehehe.. I'm going to order a pro $80 slicker brush for him.


Probably unnecessary. A sleek $6 one will work just as well. You can find them online even cheaper, I think.



> I got the *Hartz whitenning shampoo*, took a scrub brush (meant for cleaning bathrooms and such) and SCRUBBED that shampoo into the coat!!! It's so white right now OMG we got that so white. We blowdried with slicker brush and man.. FLUFF BALL. It's the maltese/poodle/puppy coat.. I should have taken a picture.


Also unnecessary. Would you want someone using a bathroom scrubber on your scalp? Even if the skin is tougher, that cannot be pleasant.



> Also I haven't had a drink since last Sunday when I had 2 bottles of beer. I also want to try to brew my own wine. I dont know why I'm being accused of being an alchoholic...


YOU aren't, persay, Fictional Dave is. See what trouble you cause when you lie on the internet?



> When a guy is working construction all day, and has cold, cold beers in the fridge on a hot summers day, the beer is going to win hands down over taking the dog to the park for his manditory excersize.


It's that or the couch, I suppose.



> The dog really has to suit a families lifestyle.
> 
> I urge you guys to keep in mind the mainstreme dog owners.
> 
> Oh the dog is shaking hands.. he almost has it. Maybe 7-8 min total training. The cat and the dog are beginning to play together.


I don't even have it in me to make jokes about the spelling anymore.



mikedavid00 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Yes we found a low cost vet and he'll be getting his shorts next Sat for $46 plus tax. If anyone is in the GTA area, it's called the Bloor Kippling Animal Hospital. They have the lowest prices. We also inquired about dew claws removal. Also the cat is going to be taken in to get declawed to get that over with.
> 
> ...


You know, despite all your blather about mainstream dog owners not making the dog a priority, I think you are. Which makes all the hypocrisy and imposition of your standards on others all the more brain-breaking.

Vetting is good. I hope going out in the world goes well. Just remember you have an infant on the end of the leash. Harshness will only spoil walks later.

I know nothing about cats. There are alternatives to declawing, though.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

> So you chose a vet based on price??? Do you have any references? Personal recommendations? Did you or do plan on interviewing the vet that will treat your dog?? ( Please do not tell me you are to busy drinking!)
> 
> Are you cleaning up the cat pee??? It won't soak in the wood & stay if your cleaning is diligent w/ the proper cleaning products.
> 
> Puppy proofing the house BEFORE you bring home a puppy is a must-- I noticed in your videos that because of the remodeling you have a lot of dangerous stuff lying around. Maybe instead of making your own beer, drinking, and taking all that time to make all the videos, you could make your home a safer environment for your puppy!


I definitely agree


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## HersheyBear (Dec 13, 2008)

Oh and about dewclaw removal, a breeder will remove a pup's dewclaws when they are in their infancy, if at all. Removing it at an older age, like your pup's age, is a more difficult surgery and would have a longer recovery time. It's also not necessary to remove them at this stage, unless it's a hanging dewclaw that can get caught on things.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

Why would the dewclaw need to be removed? I love my puppy's dewclaw, it's the only one that she keeps clean!


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> My puppy is no problem. why is that?


Probably because that puppy isn't yours and you're having a real good time playing troll. 

IF the puppy is yours, then God help him. I do hope you and your wife aren't considering having a child.


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## Jennyfur (Oct 14, 2009)

FWIW, I believe he named the dog Victor. He said as much in another thread.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

Why was mikedavid00 banned?  so sad he brought so much fun.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> Ok. While my brain is breaking over here, I am going to do my very best to respond to all this calmly and rationally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Another great post RaeganW. You're quickly becoming one of my favorite posters.

And yeah it does suck that ol' Mainstreme got banned... He was the quintessential example of who not to be and what not to do.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Well I wake up and Mike is banned. Can anyone PM me as to why?


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

GroovyGroomer777 said:


> Well I wake up and Mike is banned. Can anyone PM me as to why?


The line between misinformed misinformer and troll is thin. There's reference to it in the OMG Mike thread in the General area. Last page, I think, or second to last.


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## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

mikedavid00 said:


> Wow I'm so excited to start this!
> 
> I'll take out the camcorder and try to film it. What we are doing now is just manually lifting up the dogs paws and feeding him while we are holding his paws. We saw this method on a Youtube video. It doesn't seem to be working though..


MikeDavid,

We trained our pug to shake hands when she was 11 weeks. Here is how we did it. And it worked GREAT.

Once you have the "sit" command down, you can start the "shake" command.

Sit on the floor wtih your pup. Have some treats right with you. Put one treat in your hand.

Show your pup you have the treat. 

Now, using the OTHER hand, not the one you have the treat in, say to your pup, "Paw." and pick up her paw and shake it. Say, "good paw! Good paw!'

Note: We tried suing "shake" but found for whatever reason "paw" worked so much easier.

Anyway, put her paw back on the floor. Now say, "Paw." and hold your hand out. If she doesn't lift her paw on her own, say, "Paw." and again, lift her paw, repeating, ""Good paw!! Good paw!!"

Conintue this over and over and I swear she will get it....when you say "paw" use a firm, but controlled tone. Don't add unnessary words while training, such as "Give me your paw." or "Shake my hand with your paw." that kind of thing. Keep the command simple.

Now and then, during the exercise, remind her you have the treat. Show it to her now and then, and after showing her, say, "Paw." Try this repeatedly so she knows she will get the treat when she does the command.

If you want to use "Shake" instead of "paw" thats totally fine. I don't know why my pug never responded to it.

As far as not too many treats I agree..this is tough because you dont want them to get too chubby. 

Someone recommended Honey Nut Cherios. LOL...They have worked GREAT. High fiber low fat, and almost no calories. One cherio is just enough of a taste of something yummy.

Before you start training with these, obvisouly make sure your pup likes them.

Good luck!

Denise


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## Swaggz (Nov 17, 2009)

Me and my mom are currently interested in getting a multipoo, so im glad you made this. The matlipoo puppies I've seen seem to be a generally calm(most were), relaxed, easy to train perfect breed like you've described which is what my mother likes. I wanted to know if maltipoos are generally like this or did you just get lucky?


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## Ayanla (Jun 11, 2009)

Swaggz said:


> Me and my mom are currently interested in getting a multipoo, so im glad you made this. The matlipoo puppies I've seen seem to be a generally calm(most were), relaxed, easy to train perfect breed like you've described which is what my mother likes. I wanted to know if maltipoos are generally like this or did you just get lucky?


Keep in mind that this response is coming from someone who owns a maltipoo.

They are not a breed. There is no consistent standard, visually or temperament wise, in a maltipoo. It is no different than getting a puppy from the pound, except that you know which breeds went into making your mutt.


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## nico8 (Jul 16, 2009)

Swaggz said:


> *perfect breed* like you've described which is what my mother likes.


Sorry to disappoint but there's no such thing.


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## the_mighty_khan (Nov 10, 2009)

Swaggz said:


> Me and my mom are currently interested in getting a multipoo, so im glad you made this. The matlipoo puppies I've seen seem to be a generally calm(most were), relaxed, easy to train perfect breed like you've described which is what my mother likes. I wanted to know if maltipoos are generally like this or did you just get lucky?


You spelled the 'breed' name three different ways in as many sentences. Is this the new "mainstreme"?


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

I wonder what a multipoo is? Is that like, a poodle covered in poo?


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## Swaggz (Nov 17, 2009)

We saw a maltipoo that seem real calm and not overly hyper, but it did diarrhea. Would that mean that it would be to sick to buy? I know we could always get it examined by a vet but is it even worth it?


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Swaggz said:


> We saw a maltipoo that seem real calm and not overly hyper, but it did diarrhea. Would that mean that it would be to sick to buy? I know we could always get it examined by a vet but is it even worth it?


Mike? Is that you?!?


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## Swaggz (Nov 17, 2009)

FilleBelle said:


> Mike? Is that you?!?


huh...no im not mike


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Sorry Swaggz...I was totally making a joke at your expense. I think it's a good idea that you started your own thread about your puppy-hunting experience. This one has way too much history!


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## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

Yeah - don't.

Just don't.

You aren't educated enough to buy a dog yet.

A dog with the runs is a sick dog, and is apparently being sold by someone who doesn't care for it properly.

DON'T. JUST DON'T. You'll be sorry.


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## Meshkenet (Oct 2, 2009)

The original poster has been banned from the forum.

As a rule, there is no perfect puppy, no matter the breed (or mix thereof). Maltipoo puppys, just like others, need to be potty trained, trained in general, might chew or bite, and will have days where you might feel like giving up. Whether they are easy to train or not depends on the individual puppy, and still means they will need to be train. The situation portrayed by the OP is utopia at its best (remember, he had the dog for a few days only when he made that post).

If you want a dog, of any breed or mix, get in contact with such dogs and their owners: go to your local dog park, check forums such as this one, etc. You will get more information than from this thread.

I suggest you start a thread with the topic "thinking of getting a Maltipoo" and see what happens. Be warned: not everybody here agrees that "Maltipoos" as a breed exist at all! They are a designer breed and, as such, there is no standard within maltipoos, so you never know exactly what you will get: more Maltese or more Poodle?


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## habsfan (Nov 20, 2009)

A little late but I fixed the story for him. Maybe he'll read it one day. If not I am in Toronto and maybe I'll get the pleasure of running into Mike one day. It's a little more poignant since the story is true, although the names are fictitious:

Dave and his wife Nancy worked full time with an empty apartment all day and looked forward to sharing their lives with a dog. They had never owned a dog before but began researching what it entailed.

They decided to search for a dog on petfinder that would fit into their lifestyle. They spent months looking at potential dogs and inquired at a couple of rescues about dogs they saw that looked promising. They finally saw a beautiful 5-6 year old beagle/basset mix at a municipal shelter that had a perfect description who had been found wandering as a stray. Problem was he was a beagle and people didn’t think he would fit well into an apartment and would need a fenced in area. Dave and Nancy determined to give him the time, energy and love he required. This included 6:00 am walks and trips to the park for social time, along with making sure he got checked out at the vet and got neutered.

After a month Dave and Nancy were extremely in love with their boy. He behaved wonderfully, never chewed anything, never howled in the apartment, and loved everyone. The only thing they regretted is the sad look on his face when they got home from the park after he had such a wonderful time playing with his friends. They again embarked on a search for another dog to share their lives and found a perfect 1 year-old mixed pomeranian/corgi boy through a rescue, who had been dumped on the side of the road from an “oops” litter of puppies. The only problem was they were nervous about bringing in such a young puppy. They introduced the boys and after a few days of nevourseness about how they would get along, fell in love again. The two boys were absolutely perfect together, well-behaved, loving, social boys who are the favourites in the condo that they moved into.

Time passed on and Dave and Nancy adjusted their lifestyle to fit with these wonderful boys who came into their lives. They commited to giving them exercise, researching and switching them to healthier foods (Orijen), making sure they got their check-ups and shots, and making sure they were happy. When it came time to buy a new couch, several choices were never an option as the dogs comfort on the new couch came first. When visiting relatives, the boys were always welcomed. Even at grandma’s where no dog was ever allowed to come past the hallway into the rest of the house, blankets were now laid on the couch and chair so they could sit with grandma when she read. Dave and Nancy look forward to the day when they can have that back yard where they can play with the boys and when their future children are old enough to really enjoy them and learn how to treat and care for them. 

Now where did everything start to go right for these dogs? Choose one:

1. When their former owner’s abandoned them
2. When they found themselves in rescue or at the shelter through no fault of their own
3. When they found themselves in a loving home that will never abandon them and give them everything they need. 

The answer is #3. At the time, Dave and Nancy didn't know anything. They researched before they looked for a dog, they did not get one on a whim. They made a commitment to the responsibility of taking this new life into their home, the same as they will commit to bringing their children into their home.

Real life and realities always get in the way. That is why anyone who takes responsibility for another life must be willing to make sacrifices for that life, be it waiting an hour after getting home to have that beer, or not sleeping in on Saturday. 

12 years from now will be a hard day when one or both of the boys finally say goodbye. But nothing can replace the 12 loving years they will have spent with these wonderful boys. 

And the rest my friend, is dog history.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

A HABS fan In TORONTO??? Isn't that, like, sacrilege or something???
Oh..you must be a transplanted east coaster. LOL..
Maybe you and I can go out and find Mainstreme Mike and show him how us easterners deal with people like him? LOL


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## habsfan (Nov 20, 2009)

Cracker said:


> A HABS fan In TORONTO??? Isn't that, like, sacrilege or something???
> Oh..you must be a transplanted east coaster. LOL..
> Maybe you and I can go out and find Mainstreme Mike and show him how us easterners deal with people like him? LOL


That is it exactly, displaced Newfoundland to be exact. My wife is a Leaf's fan so it balances out.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

LOL I never saw this thread until now! I'm sad I missed out. For the first week Smalls, the unholy puppy, was an awesome puppy. She was "potty trained" in a matter of a day (which meant, she'd whine at the door, but it was quickly learned that that meant NOW.), just fine for her nails and grooming, fine on a leash.. every thing. Then, oh, a week or two later she REALLY showed the normal puppy in her.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

habsfan said:


> That is it exactly, displaced Newfoundland to be exact. My wife is a Leaf's fan so it balances out.


Funny, you don't have an accent....roflmao.

I'm from New Brunswick originally, so it was either Habs or Bruins for us. I'm more a bball fan than hockey though so I have no preference really..

Here's to Screech in TO!


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## DogsforMe (Mar 11, 2007)

You mean this thread hasn't been closed yet?


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## peznite (Oct 21, 2009)

It's kind of annoying that this guy got banned, I wanted to see more of his dog as it got older...thanks guys!


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

DogsforMe said:


> You mean this thread hasn't been closed yet?





peznite said:


> It's kind of annoying that this guy got banned, I wanted to see more of his dog as it got older...thanks guys!


That should about do it.


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