# Cushings Disease



## jaycee1001 (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi everybody, does anyone have any info on Cushing Disease please? I have a 10-year-old Yorkie who has just been diagnosed  - I'm going to try (with the vet's agreement) a herbal medicine - Cushex Drops - for a couple of weeks (not a cure but has no side effects and may ease her symptoms) before I try Vetoryl, the conventional medine.With Vetoryl her life will not be shortened, but there might be unpleasant (for her) side effects. What are other people's views?
Thanks, Jaycee


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

My brother's dog was on Lysodren for Cushings. Seems to have helped. Anapril is also sometimes used, but some dogs may/may not get good results.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

You need to know if the vethas done the proper tests to determine whether the cushings is adrenal or pituitary. The treatments differ.

Treating with an herbal remedy is no different than treating with an Rx med. All meds are derived from some sort of organic process, deriving from nature and perhaps re-created in a lab sometimes. But herbal remedies are no more "natural" than Rx meds. They all affect the body and its functions.


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## agility collie mom (Jan 26, 2008)

briteday said:


> You need to know if the vethas done the proper tests to determine whether the cushings is adrenal or pituitary. The treatments differ.
> 
> Treating with an herbal remedy is no different than treating with an Rx med. All meds are derived from some sort of organic process, deriving from nature and perhaps re-created in a lab sometimes. But herbal remedies are no more "natural" than Rx meds. They all affect the body and its functions.


I agree. Unfortunately if you do not know what you are doing sometimes you can do more harm than good. Make sure before you go the "natural" way that you speak with a good holistic vet. Had a co worker almost kill her daughter (who was bleeding from the bowels because she gave her licorice which is a blood thinner.)


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## tarib (Dec 3, 2008)

Our last dog had cushings. Unfortunatley our vet at that time knew very little about it. She was given steroids, but sadly we had to eventually have her put down. She must have had a tumer b/c she lost her appetite and she could not drink, and she would wander in circles for hours, we just could not let her suffer any longer. I hope your vet knows more, and can help your dog. good luck.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Please do not self medicate your dog with over the counter snake oil because that is exactly what Cushex Drops is. There are unscrupulous people out there that prey on pet owners that are desperate to help their babies. I personally wrote to the manufacturer of Cushex Drops as well as other ecompany cushing's products and asked them very pointedly if they had ever done clinical trials showing their products efficacy. In all cases, the answer was no or they avoided the question completely and responded with further unfounded claims. I told them that my dogs were on prescription med, Lysodren, and I was looking for an alternative natural remedy that was effective. Two companies had the gall to tell me that their product was safe to use with Lysodren so what does that tell you? I have two dogs with cushing's and have fostered two rescue dogs with cushing's. I have immersed myself in research on the disease for the last five years and know that there are no over the counter or holistic remedies that effectively reduce cortisol levels. Knowledgable holistic vets normally work in conjunction with gp or internal med vets in prescribing companion treatments that will benefit the dog. 

There are only two effective medications that effectively reduce excess circulating cortisol levels, Lysodren and Vetoryl (Trilostane). Both are very serious drugs but with treatment being prescribed by a knowledgable vet and proper vigilant monitoring by a pet owner, treatment can be facilitated with few to no side effects. 

As no one diagnostic test can be assumed to be 100% accurate, Cushing's is the most difficult canine disease to properly diagnose and is probably the number one condition that is most misdiagnosed. It is therefore, extremely important that you have a vet that is extremely knowledgable of the disease and its treatments. It is just as important that you educate yourself so that you can be an excellent advocate for your dog. It is a frustrating and scarey disease for pet owners with newly diagnosed dogs. It is not easy to wrap your head around what is happening to your dog but I can guarantee you that your fears will be greatly reduced as you learn more about the disease and the more you learn, the more proactive you will become in your dog's treatment. 

Not all vets are created equal and in my experience, there is a good percentage of vets that have either never treated a cushdog or have limited experience with the disease. I am a member of a cushing's forum and I can tell you first hand that I've seen many dogs get into trouble when a pet owner places blind faith in an unknowledgable vet. I did and my first dog that was diagnosed paid the price for it. Four and a half years later, she is doing great. Internal medicine specialists are the most knowledgable of Cushing's as well as other endocrine disorders. It was an internal medicine specialist that eventually properly diagnosed my dog and saved her life so yes, I am a huge advocate.

One of my dogs was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism and the other with nephrogenic diabetes insipidus. I also know of many other dogs with Cushing's that were also diagnosed with diabetes mellitus. It is therefore very important that you have a vet that is very well versed on the disease and again, I strongly suggest that if you have not yet seen an internal medicine specialist, you consider doing so. 

There are many of us out there that have walked in your shoes and it can be a rollercoaster ride until you get your dog stabilized on an effective treatment. The diagnostic testing is the most expensive phase and those expenses will drop greatly once proper treatment and effective dosage has been determined. For much support, a lot of hand holding, an amazing amount of collective knowledge and a wealth of reference material to aid you in understanding a lot more about the disease, please visit www.k9cushings.com/forum I sincerely hope that you will consider joining and sharing your baby's story with us. We're there to help you in any way we can. 

Glynda


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## jaycee1001 (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks everybody, for your helpful and caring replies.
When my doggie first became ill, she was X-rayed, given blood tests at different times of the day, and the vet finally diagnosed Cushings caused by a pituitary tumour.
I am not self medicating her - in conjunction with my vet I am giving her Cushex Drops which is recognised by him and registered in the UK. At all times I made sure it was agreed to by my vet.
The recognised veterinary medicine in the UK is Vetoryl, which I havn't closed my mind to at all.
After 3 weeks on Cushex Drops, my dog has reduced thirst, reduced (almost normal) urination, but I will try it for another week I think. At all times I am in contact with my vet.
Jaycee


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi Jaycee,

If your vet recognizes Cushex Drops as a legitimate cushing's treatment, then s/he has undoubtedly done the proper monitoring via an acth stimulation test to determine it's efficacy in reducing circulating cortisol levels. It sounds like have seen dramatic improvements in your dog and since it has been three weeks since starting treatment, I believe your vet should do an acth stimulation test to see if Cushex Drops is treating more than the symptoms. If your dog is doing well and tests show that cortisol is within the normal range, then why stick with it for only another week? There are a great many pet owners with cushingoid dogs that would like nothing better than to treat their dogs with something less toxic and certainly less expensive than Vetoryl or Lysodren. 

Yours is the first vet that I know of that recognizes this online remedy as being effective. If your dogs resolution of symptoms are attributable to normalizing of cortisol levels, then you and your vet have an opportunity to share the huge breakthrough that many of us have been waiting for. I sincerely hope that you do the acth stimulation test and share the results with us. 

Glynda


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## taswell (Sep 17, 2009)

I am one of the unfortunate ones that had a vet that did not know much about Cushings. When our Boston turned 9 he had a large raised spot on his side that we believe is when his first symptoms showed up. He started getting alot of skin bumps and all he wanted to do was drink. The vet gave him a steroid..........It was all downhill from there. Treatment was not easy with our guy as he was very aggressive and had to be tranquilized just to go see the vet. We lost him 2 weeks ago today after 9 months of battling the nasty disease. I agree that the best thing you can do is get a vet who knows what he/she is doing.. The rest is up to the good lord himself.


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## ering1215 (Jul 27, 2009)

there are several herbal medications that work great in cushinoid dogs. even though the lysodren works, youre absolutely right that the side effects are outrageous! not to mention, it could destroy the entire adrenal gland and then your dog could be addisionian in which case he would need steroid injections every 25 days. but then again i am really partial to holistic medications


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

To my knowledge, there is no holistic or natural remedy that reduces excess cortisol which, over time, will continue to compromise the immune system. I am a member of more than one cushing's forum, have two cushingoid dog's, have fostered two cushingoid dog's, have done five years of layman's research and have yet to find any manufacturer of a holistic medicine or online natural remedies that have done clinical trials proving their products efficacy. If there was any such holistic medicine that controlled cushing's, there would be thousands of us pet owners standing in line to buy it. 

My dogs, 4 lbs and 8 lbs respectively, have been treated with Lysodren and are doing great. Cushing's is a serious disease that requires serious medicine, which if prescribed by a vet that is knowledgable of the disease and the medicine and the pet owner is educated and monitors their dog, side effects can be avoided entirely. An ignorant pet owner who places blind faith in an an inexperienced vet can be a cushingoid dog's worst nightmare. 

ering1215, you would make me the happiest person in the world if you can provide me with the name of an herbal product or the name of a holistic vet that can prescribe a holistic treatment plan that will effectively control my dog's cushing's. Effective in cushing's means that whatever treatment is being administered is actually reducing the excessive cortisol generated by the adrenal glands. The blood test done to establish this is the acth stimulation test. Some of the tests done for proof of efficacy in any cushing's medication, whether conventional or holistic, would be the acth stimulation test, low dose dexamethasone suppression test, urine cortisol creatinine ratio and urinalysis to determine urine specific gravity, volume, etc. Unfortunately, the remedy manufacturers and distributers I have contacted about their products have either admitted they have done none of this testing or have never responded despite my follow ups. 

For a wealth of information, support and an enormous amount of collective knowledge on all forms of cushing's, it's causes, effective treatments, common accompanying conditions, please visit www.k9cushings.com


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

Thank you for the link to the k9cushings.com forum. Our vet suspects one of our old Dalmatians may have Cushing's. He goes from being completely lethargic to manic behavior while searching for food. I'm hoping with treatment, we can help him find a happy medium. While we wait for his test results and diagnosis, I'm learning as much as I can about the disease and treatments. I'm very interested in the experiences of others.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

OldDalFan, good for you for educating yourself on the disease. It's not easy disease to get your arms around but you will get there with time. You will be amazed by what treatment can do for your dog. My second cushdog is a shelter rescue that we adopted. Having a cushdog already, we knew the signs and asked the rescue to have him tested. Sure enough, he was diagnosed which made him unadoptable so he became our little boy. He came to us in horrific shape. Infected ears, eyes, mouth, extremely weak in the hind quarters which trembled constantly. He drank and peed buckets and was always foraging for food. His coat was super thin. About the only symptom he didn't have was the panting. After a year on treatment, I am amazed how great he looks....you wouldn't know he is the same dog.

I look forward to seeing you at the k9cushings forum.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

jaycee1001 said:


> Hi everybody, does anyone have any info on Cushing Disease please? I have a 10-year-old Yorkie who has just been diagnosed  - I'm going to try *(with the vet's agreement)* a herbal medicine - Cushex Drops - for a couple of weeks *(not a cure but has no side effects and may ease her symptoms)* before I try Vetoryl, the conventional medine.With Vetoryl her life will not be shortened, but there might be unpleasant (for her) side effects. What are other people's views?
> Thanks, Jaycee


i think the op realizes its not a cure and has discussed it with their vet.


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

lulusmom said:


> OldDalFan, good for you for educating yourself on the disease. It's not easy disease to get your arms around but you will get there with time. You will be amazed by what treatment can do for your dog. My second cushdog is a shelter rescue that we adopted. Having a cushdog already, we knew the signs and asked the rescue to have him tested. Sure enough, he was diagnosed which made him unadoptable so he became our little boy. He came to us in horrific shape. Infected ears, eyes, mouth, extremely weak in the hind quarters which trembled constantly. He drank and peed buckets and was always foraging for food. His coat was super thin. About the only symptom he didn't have was the panting. After a year on treatment, I am amazed how great he looks....you wouldn't know he is the same dog.
> 
> I look forward to seeing you at the k9cushings forum.


Your description of your rescue dog sounds a lot like Harley. We adopted him from a group that rescued him from a shelter after losing our old Dalmatian to mitral valve disease. He had coat issues, which cleared up. His back legs were so weak he could barely walk when he left the shelter, but improved after leaving. Our vet has used acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine to treat the hind end weakness. His appetite was always good, but he sometimes acts like he is starving, and rummages for food. Eventually I realized that he was bullying our other dogs and taking their food, as well as rummaging around the house. I've had to put all of the dog food in dog proof containers, and can't use any kind of treat with our other dogs. The drinking and urinating have also been issues. During the summer I blamed the panting on the heat. When it cooled down I blamed it on pain. When our vet mentioned Cushing's last week, it made sense. Since then he went through a 2 day "down" period, followed by an extremely agitated phase. During the down phase he didn't want to get out of bed, and had little interest in food, unless it was something really good, and only if he didn't have to get out of bed for it. It was almost like bipolar disorder. I've read that this can happen as a reaction to treatment, but I haven't read anything about it happening to untreated dogs. Did your dogs ever experience down periods before they were treated?


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

OldDalFan said:


> During the down phase he didn't want to get out of bed, and had little interest in food, unless it was something really good, and only if he didn't have to get out of bed for it. It was almost like bipolar disorder. I've read that this can happen as a reaction to treatment, but I haven't read anything about it happening to untreated dogs. Did your dogs ever experience down periods before they were treated?


No, my dogs never quit eating nor took to bed before being stabilized on treatment. Our rescue was quite listless most of the time but that is understandable. Food aggression came out of nowhere as the hunger became more severe. If an untreated cushdog becomes anorexic, there is usually something else going on. A cushdog dog is more prone to develop pancreatitis which is pretty painful and a dog will stop eating and not want to move. It sounds as if this was a temporary thing with your dog, right? I'm asking because if your dog is still not eating well, conventional treatments such as Lysodren or Trilostane should not be given.


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## Jenna09 (Dec 20, 2007)

We were told by our first vet of 18+ years that our 11 year old shih tzu, Barney, was just getting old and exhibited all of the signs of old age. 

We ended up switching vets due to another discrepency with another dog and our new/current vet diagnosed Barney with cushings right away. He has the pituitary tumour type.

I think cushings is one of those disease that is horribly under-diagnosed and alot of times uninformed vets overlook symptoms as being "old age".

Barney is now 15 years old and has been on Lysodren for the last 3 or so years. 

He still exhibits some cushings symptoms, excessive hunger, but overall he is much more comfortable.

Jenna


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

lulusmom said:


> No, my dogs never quit eating nor took to bed before being stabilized on treatment. Our rescue was quite listless most of the time but that is understandable. Food aggression came out of nowhere as the hunger became more severe. If an untreated cushdog becomes anorexic, there is usually something else going on. A cushdog dog is more prone to develop pancreatitis which is pretty painful and a dog will stop eating and not want to move. It sounds as if this was a temporary thing with your dog, right? I'm asking because if your dog is still not eating well, conventional treatments such as Lysodren or Trilostane should not be given.


Harley's down periods are always temporary, usually only 12 to 24 hours. Last week he was lethargic and uninterested in food for 2 days following his vet visit, which required sedation for his X-rays.


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## SunnyPaw (Feb 24, 2009)

LulusMom - that's great info, thank you for sharing.
Our beloved pup had a tumor on her right adrenal that caused her to experience a Cushing-like syndrome. She did not tolerate any of prescribed medications well, so everything we did was palliative. 
If anyone has Cushingoid dog, be certain that you educate yourself THOROUGHLY on the disease, and all of its available treatments, so that you and your vet can make a program for treatment that is most appropriate.


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

Harley is going to have a low dose dexamethasone suppression test on Wednesday. Thanks again for the information and links. It helped a lot in my conversation with the vet, and will no doubt help me understand the test results.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Olddalfan, I'm glad if I can help, even a little. Please let me know how the LDDS test goes. It's an all day test and if Harley get highly stressed out at the vet, you may want to take him home or stay with him in between the blood draws.


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

Harley is pretty comfortable staying with the vet. They do a good job of fussing over him. The biggest stressor was that it is a fasting test. Much to our surprise, his test came back negative. Our vet was very certain of this. This leaves me with a lot of questions about his ravenous appetite, which seems to be getting worse. We are now going to investigate his thyroid.

Thanks again for all of the information you provided.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Olddalfan, there is another form of cushing's called atypical which involves the adrenals pumping out one or more of the adrenal hormones other than cortisol which is common in typical cushing's. These hormones are called intermediate or sex hormones. A lot of cushing's savvy vets will suspect atypical cushing's if a dog has symptoms consistent with cushing's, however, low dose dex suppression tests and acth stimulation tests are negative for cushing's. Checking thryoid function is a good idea as hypothyroidism shares a lot of the same symptoms as cushing's and hypothyroidism is common in Dalmations. It is very possible that all of Harley's issues are being caused by low throid and if they are, it is an easy condition to deal with and meds are relatively inexpensive. 

If Harley's thyroid function is okay, then please talk to your vet and ask him to request a full adrenal panel from the University of Tennessee (Knoxville) This is the only facility in the country that assays all six adrenal hormones and elevations in one or more of these sex hormones can cause the same symptoms as you see with typical cushing's. Not all vets are familiar with this condition and if your vet is not, then ask him or her to contact Dr. Jack Oliver at UTK and explain Harley's symptoms. Dr. Oliver will discuss how the test works and how the blood draw should be done and shipped. Here is a link to UTK which has contact/shipping information:

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/shipping.php

For a wealth of information on typical and atypical cushing's, please consider joining www.k9cushings.com. The reference library is extensive and you will receive feedback from a bunch of folks that have gone through the same experience you have with Harley. Hope to see you there.


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## OldDalFan (Aug 15, 2009)

Thank you very much. I've printed your post, and plan to share it with our vet. When we went over all of Harley's results on Saturday, I was somewhat prepared for a discussion of how to go about treating Cushing's, and fully unprepared for the diagnosis we got. I will make arrangements for having his thyroid tested, and check out the links for atypical Cushing's.

I have browsed the k9cushings.com forum, but was waiting for a diagnosis before creating an account. Is it OK to post there even without a diagnosis?


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

OldDalFan said:


> I have browsed the k9cushings.com forum, but was waiting for a diagnosis before creating an account. Is it OK to post there even without a diagnosis?


ABSOLUTELY!!! The diagnostic phase can be scarey, frustrating and confusing so by all means, start posting so that others can help you in any way they can.


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## Sadie19! (Feb 27, 2021)

lulusmom said:


> Please do not self medicate your dog with over the counter snake oil because that is exactly what Cushex Drops is. There are unscrupulous people out there that prey on pet owners that are desperate to help their babies. I personally wrote to the manufacturer of Cushex Drops as well as other ecompany cushing's products and asked them very pointedly if they had ever done clinical trials showing their products efficacy. In all cases, the answer was no or they avoided the question completely and responded with further unfounded claims. I told them that my dogs were on prescription med, Lysodren, and I was looking for an alternative natural remedy that was effective. Two companies had the gall to tell me that their product was safe to use with Lysodren so what does that tell you? I have two dogs with cushing's and have fostered two rescue dogs with cushing's. I have immersed myself in research on the disease for the last five years and know that there are no over the counter or holistic remedies that effectively reduce cortisol levels. Knowledgable holistic vets normally work in conjunction with gp or internal med vets in prescribing companion treatments that will benefit the dog.
> 
> There are only two effective medications that effectively reduce excess circulating cortisol levels, Lysodren and Vetoryl (Trilostane). Both are very serious drugs but with treatment being prescribed by a knowledgable vet and proper vigilant monitoring by a pet owner, treatment can be facilitated with few to no side effects.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post! I couldn't have said it better and it is excellent for people dealing with this for the first time


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

11 year old thread.


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