# Abortion for my dog



## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

I know this is a strange request but I am hoping someone here can help me. I am single and during the day I leave my Golden Retriever Julia in my fenced in backyard so she can run and play while I am at work. I have not had her fixed because I want to breed her with a friends Chocolate Lab.

My next door neighbor is a very nice older woman but recently her son his wife and their 2 teenage sons moved in with her. They brought a pit bull with them. Today when I got home from work Julia was in their front yard having sex with the pit bull and the two boys were standing there laughing. I know they had to let Julia out because she has never gotten out before.

Now I am scared she is pregnant and I don't know what to do. Is there something I can do here at home that would not hurt her? Every bit of money I make goes towards bills and I really cant afford a huge vet bill right now. 

Thank you for your help,

Rita


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

Don't do anything to your dog. Take her to the vet for an emergency spay--and beg or borrow the money from someone.


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## Gladius270 (Jan 11, 2010)

...There is alot wrong with this situation. For the love of God, don't do anything to your dog. Anything you do at home is more than likely gonna hurt her, IMO.


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

I've never had any experience with this, but before you flip out, you should just bring her to the vet to have her checked out, and possibly ask about an ultrasound.

Oh, and lock whatever you can so your neighbors can't let her out.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Get your dog to a vet. The longer you wait the more expensive anything is going to be, for the safety of your dog you need to go to the vet.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Get an emergency spay. Unless your dog is pedigreed/titled/has a show record or performance record/has OFA certs as well as other genetic defect tests, then she shouldn't be bred anyway. Keeping an intact female requires more care than most people can provide, as you have found out. The testing that should be done on a dog prior to being bred runs about 2000.00. Responsible breeders are breeding the best to the best, in order to better the breed. 

If you can't afford to have her spayed there are places available that will do it cheaper. Whatever they charge is still going to be cheaper than the potential cost of having a litter. What happens if the dog has complications during delivery and needs a C-Section? Your dog could die during delivery.

Do you have any idea how many Pit mix puppies are out there that are euthed every year? And how many average Labs are euthed every year?

Do the smart thing and get her spayed. If you are barely making ends meet, then you probably aren't showing the dog/campaigning her or getting certs done.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Have a spay/abort done....Why in the world would you be breeding your Golden to a Lab anyway?
What do you hope to achieve?


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

There is nothing that you can safely do to terminate your dog's possible pregnancy.

There is a hormone injection that a veterinarian can administer that can terminate a possible pregnancy, but it does come with risks. I have no idea what the costs are, or if your vet will even do it.

I do have to ask ... why do you want to breed your dog, and especially with another breed? 

I have to warn you, you won't find many people here that will be in support of that. The overwhelming majority of us here are supporters of responsible breeding practices, spaying/neutering and adopting the millions of homeless dogs in rescues and shelters that desperately need homes rather than contributing to an already out-of-control problem.

The responsible thing to do is to spay your dog to prevent pregnancy and to keep her healthy from mammary and uterine cancers.


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

I know its probably impossible for you to tell me but do you know what something like this would cost at the vet? I have read on yahoo that you can give a dog valium and that will cause an abortion. I really do not know what to do at this point. My fear is they have been doing this for a while and I just caught them today.


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## lauren17 (Apr 14, 2009)

It depends on the vet. my vet charges about $150 for a spay. Shelters sometimes have cheap spay and neuter programs as well. Please dont get your dog Valium!! Or anything else for that matter.

Read this that another member just posted..

http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/75593-journey-free-puppy.html


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

The reason I am breeding her with my friends dog is because he offered me $300 and said he would handle the puppies and any vet bills Julia might get during the pregnancy. I think he plans on selling them but I am not sure.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Spay your dog. It will solve all of this. Even if you aborted now, another dog will jump your fence and breed her anyway.

Spay your dog so no one has to kill her puppies when they are no longer puppy-cute.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

There are better ways to make $300.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

So you didn't even know your dog was in heat?!?! NEVER keep an in heat dog outside alone, if she hadn't jumped the fence she would have. Were they tied (butt to butt) or was he just humping her? If they weren't tied then there's a possibility she's not pregnant but since you've been leaving her outside it's probably happened before if not by a different dog. Don't breed your Golden to a lab, they are different breeds. Not sure what would be accomplished with that. Don't try to do a home abortion, goodness so much could go wrong that way. Get your dog spayed or even give her to a rescue. Getting her spayed would eliminate future pregnancies and the current one.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

If you can't afford a vet visit, how in the world are you going to support 5 to 12 puppies running around needing shots, de-worming, and food? How in the world are you going to afford if your bitch needs an Emergancy C-section while in whelp? It happens more often then you think to be perfectly honest. Breeding is not something to take lightly and is a very expensive thing, and can be dangerous. I've watched healthy bitches die after birth or turn away from feeding the pups and the owner has to step in and feed 5-12pups every 2 hours. Talk about hard!

As for home abortions, no there is NOTHING safe. This is something your vet must do. There is a hormone injection but it has a very high risk of side effects. A Spay abortion is much safer.

I hope you learned your lession about keeping an intact female outside when she's in heat. Males can smell a female in heat over 4 miles away and have been known to break windows, chew through doors, climb walls, and chew through walls to get to a female in heat. Heck there has even been dogs who have been crated in different crates that have been able to tie together and end up pregnant.

Check out Carecredit.com for help with your vet bills. It's a low interest credit card that is only able to be used at Vet offices, Doctors, dentistm hopitals and such.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Rita Pulls said:


> The reason I am breeding her with my friends dog is because he offered me $300 and said he would handle the puppies and any vet bills Julia might get during the pregnancy. I think he plans on selling them but I am not sure.


I'm sorry, but this is a terrible reason to breed your dog. Not only is it completely irresponsible, it's using your dog for your own financial gain. It's tantamount to whoring her out.


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## Terrie (Sep 11, 2009)

If you can't afford about 200 dollars for a spay, what makes you think you can afford to breed your dog. A golden will have a large litter. She will need to eat more during pregnancy. She will need vet visits, to check up on the pups. And once born, obviously the puppies need vet care and food as well.

All of that besides testing to genetic defects, which I'm sure you know nothing about. 

Please just spay the dog. You wouldn't have a human baby for the hell of it would you?


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> I know its probably impossible for you to tell me but do you know what something like this would cost at the vet? I have read on yahoo that you can give a dog valium and that will cause an abortion. I really do not know what to do at this point. My fear is they have been doing this for a while and I just caught them today.


Please please please do not do this. Take her to a vet. Vets are qualified to help you through decisions about oops litters, people on the internet are not.

If the valium works, you dodged a bullet. Until your unfixed dog gets out again, or eager unfixed males chew through your fence or climbs through your windows to get at your dog in heat. Also, how are you going to know if it worked or not?

If it doesn't work, you're going to have to take her to the vet at some point, either to care for her during the pregnancy or because giving your dog seizure medication had terrible side effects.

Get to a vet. Please, please, *go to the vet*.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Wow.. $300 to put your dogs life and health at risk and bring another dozen mixed breed puppies into the world.. good deal.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Do a spay/abort. That is really the only 'safe' way to do an abortion on a dog. The world doesn't need another oops litter of pit bull mixes. (Or lab mixes for that matter)


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

Im not real sure what butt to butt means but when I got home it was like they were stuck together and couldnt break free from each other and no I did not know she was in heat. She may not be in heat I really don't know. Do dogs only have sex when the female is in heat?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Rita Pulls said:


> Im not real sure what butt to butt means but when I got home it was like they were stuck together and couldnt break free from each other and no I did not know she was in heat. She may not be in heat I really don't know. Do dogs only have sex when the female is in heat?


Dogs don't have sex for kicks. If they were tied, it is very very likely she's in heat and pregnant now.


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

I get you guys are upset because OP is a little in the unknown, but they weren't planning on having puppies they couldn't take care of. They clearly state that the person they were going to have the puppies with were going to take care of the puppies and any needs that OP's dog would need during the pregnancy...Sheesh.

I'm not saying it makes it any better, but don't scold them for something they weren't going to do in the first place is all I'm saying.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

except that this person had no idea that dogs only mate when the female is in estrus. she also seemed to have no clue whats involved in mating dogs...which likely means she has no idea of the risk...

let me know when i need to start posting pics of walrus puppies and pyometra....


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## JLWillow (Jul 21, 2009)

Like I said, they're a little in the unknown...I was putting it VERY nicely.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Rita Pulls said:


> Im not real sure what butt to butt means but when I got home it was like they were stuck together and couldnt break free from each other and no I did not know she was in heat. She may not be in heat I really don't know. Do dogs only have sex when the female is in heat?


Yes, dogs only mate when the female is in heat. If they were "stuck" together, that means they were tied (his penis was swelled inside her vagina after and during ejaculation of sperm and prostatic fluids), which means that there is a very high possibility that she is indeed pregnant. If they were tied, the male would have likely moved his leg over her back, resulting in them facing opposite directions, thus the phrase "butt to butt".

Dogs are not like humans. When humans have sex, it's NOT only to procreate and it doesn't always "take". When dogs mate, it's ONLY to procreate, and it usually does always "take". This is why, when dogs are spayed/neutered, they have no sexual interest, whereas when people are "fixed" they do still have a sex drive.

It is best to get your dog immediately spayed for a myriad of reasons. I don't know where you live, but you can do an internet search for low-cost spay/neuter clinics in your geographical area and you can probably find something that you can afford. 

As for your friend, tell him to educate himself on what all is involved in his dog becoming a qualified stud dog. There's alot more to it than just having a penis and being a purebred chocolate lab.


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## Tanuki (Nov 14, 2009)

Valium isn't going to cause an abortion. If taking a muscle relaxer was all it took to end a pregnancy we wouldn't have so many humans getting an abortion. An overdose of Valium could lead to respiratory arrest so don't try something like that at home.

there is a human "morning after" pill so there is probably something similar for dogs (this may be the hormone shot some of the posters are referring to)

Yes, there could be side effects from the shot but pregnancy and whelping aren't without side effects either. A bad whelp could result in an emergency C-section. 

You need to see about getting the dog to the vet ASAP - find out if she is pregnant and get her spayed if you can afford it. Discuss your options about the shot if you don't have the money for the spay but whatever you do don't just wait until one day you have puppies. Those puppies are going to end up at the pound because there is a lot more supply than demand out there for a mutt that is part Pit Bull.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

not only that but its typically the owner of the bitch that deals with the litter. you gonna let this guy have your dog for the four plus months it will take for the pregnancy and for her to raise the litter?


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

OP- I can 100% guarantee you, that if your dog was bred to your friend's Lab and had problems with the pregnancy so your dog lost the litter but needed vet care like antibiotics, uterine flushes, blood transfusions, your friend WILL NOT PAY a dime. But you get stuck with vet bills and a possible dead dog.

Do not be a Backyard breeder. Go volunteer at animal control for a month and watch them put down puppy after puppy, dog after dog. Your friend does not have the best interest of your dog or potential puppies at heart. He's only being greedy and selfish. And willing to risk the lives of puppies and your dog to do it.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Tanuki said:


> Valium isn't going to cause an abortion. If taking a muscle relaxer was all it took to end a pregnancy we wouldn't have so many humans getting an abortion. An overdose of Valium could lead to respiratory arrest so don't try something like that at home.


While Valium certainly should NOT be used in this instance, there are certainly MANY instances where drugs and food items that humans use affect dogs on a totally different level. Please do not make comparisons such as these.


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

Sorry I had to step away from my computer for a minute. I am sorry if I have offended anyone here. I did not mean to do that. I am a single woman and got Julia to have as a friend and someone to come home to. She is the first dog I have ever owned and I am stupid when it comes to dogs. My job is not one that pays very much so I do not have a lot extra to spend on unplanned things like this. I am able to take her to the vet for her yearly check up when I get my income taxes back so she is cared for in that way. And she is always fed. When my friend offered me the $300 it never crossed my mind that I was treating Julia like a prostitute. I really just saw it as a chance to make some much needed money. That was probably wrong to do but $300 is hard to turn down. Now it looks like I am going to be out of the $300 and have a $200 vet bill. I am just sick over this and really wish there was something I could do at home to take care of it but I realize I could do a lot of harm to her if I did that.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Don't be your dogs pimp. Get her fixed, PLEASE. Shelters are stock full of dogs from instances like yours, and many don't make it out.  There are other ways of making money.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Rita, when you get to the vet with Julia, ask to speak with the office manager regarding a payment plan. If you have been a good client who has always paid her bills on time, there's a good chance that they will allow you to split the cost of a spay into a couple of payments.

Please do this for your girl, it is the right thing.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> Sorry I had to step away from my computer for a minute. I am sorry if I have offended anyone here. I did not mean to do that. I am a single woman and got Julia to have as a friend and someone to come home to. She is the first dog I have ever owned and I am stupid when it comes to dogs. My job is not one that pays very much so I do not have a lot extra to spend on unplanned things like this. I am able to take her to the vet for her yearly check up when I get my income taxes back so she is cared for in that way. And she is always fed. When my friend offered me the $300 it never crossed my mind that I was treating Julia like a prostitute. I really just saw it as a chance to make some much needed money. That was probably wrong to do but $300 is hard to turn down. Now it looks like I am going to be out of the $300 and have a $200 vet bill. I am just sick over this and really wish there was something I could do at home to take care of it but I realize I could do a lot of harm to her if I did that.


No one is offended. This is just a forum that is big into research and responsible breeding. I would however take the advice you've been given and have the spay done ASAP. Call around your area and ask for price quotes. If you are lucky that the breeding did not take, the cost will be less than a spay/abort. Spaying her now and "taking the hit" so to speak will save you a lot of money and heartache later on. 
Please do not to any thing you read on the internet. I have read some SCARY things people suggest for at home.


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## marsha=whitie (Dec 29, 2008)

Rita Pulls said:


> Sorry I had to step away from my computer for a minute. I am sorry if I have offended anyone here. I did not mean to do that. I am a single woman and got Julia to have as a friend and someone to come home to. She is the first dog I have ever owned and I am stupid when it comes to dogs. My job is not one that pays very much so I do not have a lot extra to spend on unplanned things like this. I am able to take her to the vet for her yearly check up when I get my income taxes back so she is cared for in that way. And she is always fed. When my friend offered me the $300 it never crossed my mind that I was treating Julia like a prostitute. I really just saw it as a chance to make some much needed money. That was probably wrong to do but $300 is hard to turn down. Now it looks like I am going to be out of the $300 and have a $200 vet bill. I am just sick over this and really wish there was something I could do at home to take care of it but I realize I could do a lot of harm to her if I did that.


where are you from? google for UCAN clinics in your area, or maybe talk to your vet and see if they could possibly do a payment plan. If your vet is anything like mine, they're concerned with the welfare of the dog, not lining their pockets. Good luck!


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## Leroy&Lucy'sMom (Mar 2, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> Sorry I had to step away from my computer for a minute. I am sorry if I have offended anyone here. I did not mean to do that. I am a single woman and got Julia to have as a friend and someone to come home to. She is the first dog I have ever owned and I am stupid when it comes to dogs. My job is not one that pays very much so I do not have a lot extra to spend on unplanned things like this. I am able to take her to the vet for her yearly check up when I get my income taxes back so she is cared for in that way. And she is always fed. When my friend offered me the $300 it never crossed my mind that I was treating Julia like a prostitute. I really just saw it as a chance to make some much needed money. That was probably wrong to do but $300 is hard to turn down. Now it looks like I am going to be out of the $300 and have a $200 vet bill. I am just sick over this and really wish there was something I could do at home to take care of it but I realize I could do a lot of harm to her if I did that.


I wish you the very best. Thank you for taking her in and getting her the emergency spay, it is the only safe method. Most of all, thank you for listening to the advice that other members have given here. Definitely look into getting a lock for your gates to prevent the horrible neighbors from letting her loose (so much could go wrong). Hope all goes well.


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

If I have her spayed does that mean she can never have puppies? I am from a small town in Alabama so there are not many vets in the area. The vet I use is kind of mean and I know he is not going to let me pay with payments. You are right about there being some scary stuff out there.


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## QuidditchGirl (Apr 9, 2010)

Rita Pulls said:


> If I have her spayed does that mean she can never have puppies? I am from a small town in Alabama so there are not many vets in the area. The vet I use is kind of mean and I know he is not going to let me pay with payments. You are right about there being some scary stuff out there.


It means she can never have puppies, but she SHOULDN'T be having puppies anyway.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

Yeah, spaying her means no puppies ever. They take out her ovaries and uterus...nothing to have pups with left. 

Were you still wanting to breed her? 

I feel sad for your dog!


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> If I have her spayed does that mean she can never have puppies? I am from a small town in Alabama so there are not many vets in the area. The vet I use is kind of mean and I know he is not going to let me pay with payments. You are right about there being some scary stuff out there.


yes, if she is spayed, she will never be able to have a litter which is the best thing for her health...Please have her spayed!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> If I have her spayed does that mean she can never have puppies? I am from a small town in Alabama so there are not many vets in the area. The vet I use is kind of mean and I know he is not going to let me pay with payments. You are right about there being some scary stuff out there.


No, she can never have puppies, and that is for the best.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes, it means she'll never go into heat again. In female dogs, it is very reccommended that if you do not plan to breed her, that she get spayed because dogs that are in heat that don't get pregnant are at risk for pyometra, and the risk gets higher every time she isn't bred. 

Honestly, if you don't have access to a really, really good vet that you totally trust, it is very unsafe to breed her. Pregnant dogs need lots of care, and so much can go wrong. You can lose the mother and puppies, or just the mother and have a litter of puppies you have to hand raise. 

Thank you for taking the advice you've gotten.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Rita Pulls said:


> If I have her spayed does that mean she can never have puppies? I am from a small town in Alabama so there are not many vets in the area. The vet I use is kind of mean and I know he is not going to let me pay with payments. You are right about there being some scary stuff out there.


you made me do this..


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Jod-dog said:


> Yeah, spaying her means no puppies ever. They take out her ovaries and uterus...nothing to have pups with left.
> 
> Were you still wanting to breed her?
> 
> I feel sad for your dog!


I hope she isn't still thinking about breeding her! YIKES!


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Rita Pulls said:


> If I have her spayed does that mean she can never have puppies? I am from a small town in Alabama so there are not many vets in the area. The vet I use is kind of mean and I know he is not going to let me pay with payments. You are right about there being some scary stuff out there.


No, honey, she won't be able to have puppies ... but she doesn't need to have puppies. There are millions of unwanted and unloved puppies in shelters all over the world right now. You don't want to be a part of that problem. And Julia doesn't need to have the health problems associated with potential problems from being not spayed.

I think you love your dog, and I think, like you said, you just don't know that much about dogs. So please do yourself, and Julia, a huge favor and educate yourself as much as you can about dogs. Read up on health problems dogs can have from not being spayed. Read up on the number of dogs in shelters and how many dogs are put to sleep each year because of overcrowding due to being abandoned, neglected and abused. Read up on strays that are hit by cars or roaming the streets without homes, filled with disease from not being vaccinated. Think about all the dogs that live outside, filled with parasites, living in the heat and cold, with no shelter or food, and no one to love them. Think about dogs that are not fixed, who mate out of instinct and all those puppies who are left to fend for themselves in the world. If you have cable, watch a few episodes of Animal Cops on Animal Planet and see how terrible human beings can be to dogs and other animals, in general.

Learn to be part of the solution, Rita, not part of the problem.

And if your vet is "mean", hon ... find another one. And like I said earlier, do a google search for low-cost spay/neuter clinics in your area. They are out there. PM me and tell me what city you are nearest in Alabama and I will search one out for you.

Just do what is best for your dear Julia. She deserves the best. And she relies on you to give it to her.


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

Thank you all for your advice. You have really given me a lot to think about.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/2201-breeding-issue-his-name.html


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

Sorry but this sounds like a troll. Just posting to stuff on a board that is easy to tell against just random breeding. I maybe wrong but I just don't know.
If you would PM me your location in AL I have a friend that works with several rescues in GA and AL and I will contact her and see if we can get this dog spayed before this goes any longer.


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## BorderGal (Nov 29, 2008)

Frankly this whole story scares the weave poles right off my agility course..first your "friend" wanting you to breed your dog and offering you $300...people do not just do that especially when the offspring are going to be mixed, and not some "designer dogs" which are currently popular, and no "friend" would do that anyway. 

I shudder to think how and to whom he is planning to sell these puppies, and for what. He's probably planning on no care (you admit you have no experience in this so he's going to tell you what you want to hear), a big litter (so who cares if 3-4 die), rip them away from their mom as soon as they can eat on their own, and sell them. If I were a gambling person, I would be laying big odds in Vegas that he will tell you you'll get your $300 AFTER the puppies are sold and you will never see a dime of it.

Please get your dog spayed ASAP, find yourself some new friends, get a lock for your gate, and get as much education so you can to have your dog be a healthy, happy companion dog for a very long time.


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## QuidditchGirl (Apr 9, 2010)

BorderGal said:


> I shudder to think how and to whom he is planning to sell these puppies, and for what. He's probably planning on no care (you admit you have no experience in this so he's going to tell you what you want to hear), a big litter (so who cares if 3-4 die), rip them away from their mom as soon as they can eat on their own, and sell them. If I were a gambling person, I would be laying big odds in Vegas that he will tell you you'll get your $300 AFTER the puppies are sold and you will never see a dime of it.


Not to mention, who does he think is going to pay big bucks for a mixed breed puppy? There are plenty of unwanted puppies in shelters already. Having a litter of mixed breeds has little to no chance of turning a profit. So not worth it by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

Spay your dog. If you don't have the funds to pay for a basic spay, breeding her is going to cost you a lot more - and likely vets are not going to be as kind if you are intentionally breeding a litter. They might be for an 'oops' like you find yourself in now.

Having had a dog almost die from Pyometria, I would suggest spaying ASAP. Not only was it scary to find her in that situation (I was out of town for the weekend and came back to a very sick dog), but it was very expensive to pay for the emergency surgery and meds to get her out of the woods. And, she was not well for at least a week before she was back on her feet. It was not something we could have waited for tax money to come in or dealt with at home for sure. Spaying prevents that as well as puppies, which could run you a lot of expenses and heartache (pit crosses are not easy to find homes for!).

Lana


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

momof3 I live in Sand Mountain AL. Would you give your friend a call and see if she knows of a vet that would help me? I am about to go to bed but I will check back tomorrow afternoon when I get home. Thank you for you help.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

If you have a local animal control or Humane society, you might call them and ask if they do low cost/free spays, or know of any local groups who do that.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I would never accept $300 at the risk of the life of my dog. there are many things that go wrong with a pregnant bitch and a bitch that is left unspayed has a 25% chance of developing a deadly uterus infection called Pyometra. Once a bitch is full grown it's usually healthier for them to be spayed, in Bitches the risks outweigh the benefits to remaining intact IMO. So unless you are going to be doing X-rays and blood tests to make sure she is of better breeding quality than your average shelter dog she should be spayed.

I know I sound preachy, but there are just so many sad things I have seen I always want to make sure people understand the seriousness of such situations.


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## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

Get ur dog spayed ASAP!

Golden Retrievers are very popular in shelters. 

This may sound harsh, but if you cannot pay for a dog's health bills, then u shouldn't own one.I know u said u get her yearly vet checkups, but, if you know nothing of breeding let alone dogs in general, then taking on the dog wasn't a good choice.

But thanks for taking all this great advice from these people.


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## KaseyT (May 7, 2008)

Will the SPCA or local Humane Society do a low cost emergency spay? I have no idea, just throwing it out.


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## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

KaseyT said:


> Will the SPCA or local Humane Society do a low cost emergency spay? I have no idea, just throwing it out.



Yes! they definitely will!!

I work at the SPCA-LA in Long Beach, CA. They have a center for it. They even provide financial assistance!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

JessieLove09 said:


> Yes! they definitely will!!
> 
> I work at the SPCA-LA in Long Beach, CA. They have a center for it. They even provide financial assistance!


Many 'shelters' in the South do not have low cost programs, they are barely funded to take in and place dogs and most have very high euth rates. Trust me, Long Beach Ca is a five star luxury resort compared to most places in the South.


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## Stephie (Apr 29, 2010)

Vet bills are something to consider when you get a dog. They are going to come at some point. It will be cheaper to resolve this issue now, rather than waiting til later. And please don't try anything at home, you could make things much worse. Take your dog to the vet for a spay/abort if you really do care about her well being, as well as the well being of her would be litter. There are so many homeless dogs as it is, don't add to the problem. Find a better way to make that $300.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

cshellenberger said:


> Many 'shelters' in the South do not have low cost programs, they are barely funded to take in and place dogs and most have very high euth rates. Trust me, Long Beach Ca is a five star luxury resort compared to most places in the South.


Many actually do, though. I live in Texas, and while we aren't the "Deep South" we are still the South, and our Humane Society and SPCA both offer low-cost spay/neuter programs, as well as low-cost vaccination clinics. 

In addition, we have various independent low-cost spay/neuter and vaccination clinics, as well as "round-ups" that occur several times a year in various parts of the state that encourage pet-owners to act responsibly. 

In one near-by county, one such "round-up" occurs a couple of times a year, and offers $5 spays and neuters to everyone in a 50-mile radius as strong encouragement for pet owners to have their pets spayed/neutered. For an additional $5, a full round of vaccinations can be given. It's sponsored by the North Texas Humane Society, I believe, and fully licensed vets perform the procedures. It's a philanthropic practice, giving back to the community.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Greater Birmingham Humane Society

Alabama Spay/Neuter Clinic

Surgical Fees Effective January 1, 2010 : Female Dog $70 plus $15 in heat/pregnant plus $20 for dogs over 70 lbs (which I'll assume a GR is).


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> momof3 I live in Sand Mountain AL. Would you give your friend a call and see if she knows of a vet that would help me? I am about to go to bed but I will check back tomorrow afternoon when I get home. Thank you for you help.


I live in Tuscaloosa- my vet is pretty reasonable and I can ask him how much that would cost- not sure how far that is from you. Looks like an hour or so from the map.

Edit: I just looked at the post above mine- I'm sure even my reasonable vet wouldn't be cheaper then that- but I can still ask if you'd like!


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

infiniti said:


> Many actually do, though. I live in Texas, and while we aren't the "Deep South" we are still the South, and our Humane Society and SPCA both offer low-cost spay/neuter programs, as well as low-cost vaccination clinics.
> 
> In addition, we have various independent low-cost spay/neuter and vaccination clinics, as well as "round-ups" that occur several times a year in various parts of the state that encourage pet-owners to act responsibly.
> 
> In one near-by county, one such "round-up" occurs a couple of times a year, and offers $5 spays and neuters to everyone in a 50-mile radius as strong encouragement for pet owners to have their pets spayed/neutered. For an additional $5, a full round of vaccinations can be given. It's sponsored by the North Texas Humane Society, I believe, and fully licensed vets perform the procedures. It's a philanthropic practice, giving back to the community.


Well Alabama compared to CA is still apples and oranges  There is just not as much community support here. Probably less than Texas also. At least where I live.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

infiniti said:


> Many actually do, though. I live in Texas, and while we aren't the "Deep South" we are still the South, and our Humane Society and SPCA both offer low-cost spay/neuter programs, as well as low-cost vaccination clinics.
> 
> In addition, we have various independent low-cost spay/neuter and vaccination clinics, as well as "round-ups" that occur several times a year in various parts of the state that encourage pet-owners to act responsibly.
> 
> In one near-by county, one such "round-up" occurs a couple of times a year, and offers $5 spays and neuters to everyone in a 50-mile radius as strong encouragement for pet owners to have their pets spayed/neutered. For an additional $5, a full round of vaccinations can be given. It's sponsored by the North Texas Humane Society, I believe, and fully licensed vets perform the procedures. It's a philanthropic practice, giving back to the community.


 
I'm from MS and VERY few places there have any low cost spay Nueter. Perhaps around some of the larger cities such as Jackson, Gulfport or Natchez but the rural counties are very poorly funded and very understaffed.


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## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

cshellenberger said:


> Many 'shelters' in the South do not have low cost programs, they are barely funded to take in and place dogs and most have very high euth rates. Trust me, Long Beach Ca is a five star luxury resort compared to most places in the South.



Just fyi: they are publicly funded. Its not a 5-star luxury hotel.Most SPCA's will provide the low cost spay/neuter and vaccinations.


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

Thank you everyone for all of the information you have provided. You have no idea how much you have helped me. Today I was able to speak to the man that lives next door. His name is Odell and he is the pit bulls owner but he is away from home alot because he is a truck driver. His wife had told him what happened yesterday and how upset I was so he came over to tell me he was sorry. After I explained everything to him about Julia and me wanting to get her an abortion and have her fixed he offered to pay the bill. He did ask that I use his vet to have it done because he is friends with him. He also said I could choose to keep the puppies if she is pregnant and he would sell them and give me the money he made off that since I was going to be out of the money I would have gotten from Terry for breeding her with his Labrador. I'm pretty sure I am just going to have her fixed and be done with the whole thing. I dont want to make Julia go through a pregnancy because that would be very hard on her. To be honest I really do hate that she will never be able to have puppies though.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm glad it worked out well for you. Good luck with the spay and speedy recovery to Julia.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Rita Pulls said:


> Thank you everyone for all of the information you have provided. You have no idea how much you have helped me. Today I was able to speak to the man that lives next door. His name is Odell and he is the pit bulls owner but he is away from home alot because he is a truck driver. His wife had told him what happened yesterday and how upset I was so he came over to tell me he was sorry. After I explained everything to him about Julia and me wanting to get her an abortion and have her fixed he offered to pay the bill. He did ask that I use his vet to have it done because he is friends with him. He also said I could choose to keep the puppies if she is pregnant and he would sell them and give me the money he made off that since I was going to be out of the money I would have gotten from Terry for breeding her with his Labrador. I'm pretty sure I am just going to have her fixed and be done with the whole thing. I dont want to make Julia go through a pregnancy because that would be very hard on her. To be honest I really do hate that she will never be able to have puppies though.



why is it so important that she have puppies? canine pregnancy is fairly dangerous if not handled correctly and handling it correctly is costly...very costly. and you could easily end up losing all of the puppies and the mom if you arent careful.

dont breed her, dont sell the puppies you have no idea what kind of life of pain you could be putting them through just selling them off for money.

we're talking _lives_ here. please spay her.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

I think you are making the right choice. She doesn't care that she will never be a mom...dogs don't have the desire that we do to become parents.

Just think about her future health and all the things she CAN'T get because you had her spayed.


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> Thank you everyone for all of the information you have provided. You have no idea how much you have helped me. Today I was able to speak to the man that lives next door. His name is Odell and he is the pit bulls owner but he is away from home alot because he is a truck driver. His wife had told him what happened yesterday and how upset I was so he came over to tell me he was sorry. After I explained everything to him about Julia and me wanting to get her an abortion and have her fixed he offered to pay the bill. He did ask that I use his vet to have it done because he is friends with him. He also said I could choose to keep the puppies if she is pregnant and he would sell them and give me the money he made off that since I was going to be out of the money I would have gotten from Terry for breeding her with his Labrador. I'm pretty sure I am just going to have her fixed and be done with the whole thing. I dont want to make Julia go through a pregnancy because that would be very hard on her. To be honest I really do hate that she will never be able to have puppies though.


That's good to hear, at least your neighbor is very nice. I would go ahead and get her spayed and aborted. You would likely make hardly anything off a Pit Bull/GR cross. If you are ever in the Tuscaloosa area just go by metro animal shelter- a place like that (or worse) is probably where many of those pups would eventually end up.


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

Its not important to me that she have puppies. I just hate that I am taking away her ability to have puppies. I know most everyone here probably look at their dogs as a pet but Julia is like a member of my family. Almost like a daughter to me. Other than my sister who lives in Mississippi Julia is really the only family I have.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Rita Pulls said:


> Its not important to me that she have puppies. I just hate that I am taking away her ability to have puppies. I know most everyone here probably look at their dogs as a pet but Julia is like a member of my family. Almost like a daughter to me. Other than my sister who lives in Mississippi Julia is really the only family I have.



and by spaying her you may be saving her life.


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## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

Rita Pulls said:


> Its not important to me that she have puppies. I just hate that I am taking away her ability to have puppies. I know most everyone here probably look at their dogs as a pet but Julia is like a member of my family. Almost like a daughter to me. Other than my sister who lives in Mississippi Julia is really the only family I have.


Most of us here treat and care for our dogs like they are family. You shouldn't hate for her not to have puppies. Just think you are saving Julia's life, her puppies lives, and their puppies lives.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> except that this person had no idea that dogs only mate when the female is in estrus. she also seemed to have no clue whats involved in mating dogs...which likely means she has no idea of the risk...
> 
> let me know when i need to start posting pics of walrus puppies and pyometra....


Start posting. Goodness knows that one more educated person is gonna make all the difference... well maybe not in this case. I'm just so floored by this whole topic (again) that I'm actually at a loss for words. Do yourself and the dog a favor and get her spayed. You obviously don't have the knowledge or funds to help this dog thru a pregnancy even if the other guy is willing to pay what he says he is (and I'd believe that when I saw it). He's just another jack ass jumping on the designer breed train, altho lab/golden is a new one for me.


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> Its not important to me that she have puppies. I just hate that I am taking away her ability to have puppies. I know most everyone here probably look at their dogs as a pet but Julia is like a member of my family. Almost like a daughter to me. Other than my sister who lives in Mississippi Julia is really the only family I have.


I think a lot of people here see their dogs as family  Unlike people she wont care about having puppies or extending her lineage. She's just happy to be with someone who cares about her


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> If I have her spayed does that mean she can never have puppies? I am from a small town in Alabama so there are not many vets in the area. The vet I use is kind of mean and I know he is not going to let me pay with payments. You are right about there being some scary stuff out there.


Ok you said you've had dogs before so your not a complete idiot when it comes to them, well honey I'm sorry but that statement right there proves otherwise.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Wow, that's really great of your neighbour to take responsibility like that! I really hope you'll take him up on his offer.

Also.. don't think that you're "taking away her ability to have puppies", think that you are saving her from ever getting uterine/ovarian cancer, pyrometra, and she will never have to go through heat again - all good things!


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## Rita Pulls (Apr 29, 2010)

Dog shrink I have never owned another dog. Julia is the first dog I have ever owned. My mom did not allow us to have pets because my grandmother lived with us from the time I was 9. She was on oxygen and my mom thought animals might chew up the tubing to her oxygen machine. I had no idea spayed meant she would be fixed. I thought it might be the term used for abortions in dogs. I am an idiot when it comes to dogs but I take of Julia the best I can and she seems to be a very happy dog.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Ok I thought I saw in one of your previous posts said that you have had dogs before. My bad. 

I would absolutely take your neighbor up on the offer to pay for the spay. That is very noble of him. The $$ that you could make from selling them won't touch the cost of caring for her thru pregnancy and raising the pups after their born.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Rita Pulls said:


> Its not important to me that she have puppies. I just hate that I am taking away her ability to have puppies. I know most everyone here probably look at their dogs as a pet but Julia is like a member of my family. Almost like a daughter to me. Other than my sister who lives in Mississippi Julia is really the only family I have.


Don't worry that you're taking away any thing from her. Dogs don't feel that way about reproduction like a person would. They have no physical or emotional need to reproduce.
My dogs are much more than pets to me, and they're all altered. Both of my bitches are mixed breeds with health conditions I'm lucky enough to know about (Magpie is dysplasic and Smalls has extensive GI problems and had a very difficult spay. I can't imagine a pregnancy- likely it would have killed her) and if your dog has a genetic condition you're unaware of, you could pass that along to her puppies. My Dachshund has progressive retinal atrophy and will go blind. If his breeders took the time to learn this, they would have saved a lot of puppies from it. 
My mutts are gorgeous wonderful dogs that still ended up in shelters on death row. As much as I love them, I would happily never own a mutt again if that meant people stopped breeding them and they stopped ending up in shelters.


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## Amarena (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow...so he is going to give you 300 for the puppies..so what he is going to take your dog until the puppies are able to eat on there own? Not worth it, and making a 8-12 litter of puppies is only going lower the chances of all of the other dogs siting in shelters! 
Please for the love of dogs do a spay/abortion....there is NO safe way to do it at home! 
Depending on your area there should be a low-cost fix clinic.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

I am glad your neighbor is being responsible. 

I think of my dogs as family too, but I have no desire to breed them. Dogs do not reproduce because they want cute puppies or have some desire for a family...it's just nature and instinct. 
Golden Retrievers are prone to a host of genetic ailments. I am not certain if she came from a breeder who did health testing (had their hips and elbows certified to see if the parents had dysplasia, thyroid testing, etc). They're prone, as a breed, to cancer..did her breeder give any info on whether that is in their lines? All are things that can be passed to puppies. Responsible breeders want to improve their breed..not just produce extra puppies.

Spaying her will help chances that she'll be in your life as long as possible..reducing her risk of mammary tumors, eliminating ovarian and uterine cancer risks, and eliminating the chance of her developing pyometra (an infection of the uterus). She,and you, will be happier in the long run.

It is fantastic that your neighbor is willing to pay for her spay. You might consider applying for Care Credit (you can do a search and apply online) so that you have an option for the future should any unexpected vet bills come up.


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## foxthegoldfish (Apr 15, 2008)

I will just say what other people have said
My dogs are both family, the most important thing to me is that they are happy, this sounds like it is the same for you.

I have all my dogs fixed, for my female she was fixed young

I wanted her to be as happy as possible
For dogs it is different to people

They are not happier with the option of having puppies
It is actually the opposite, 
a fixed female does not have to go through heat (this can be stressful for dogs, as they are trying to find a mate etc)
Having them fixed reduces their risk of a lot of diseases, so she will be healthier if she is fixed.
Being pregnant is not very fun, even for dogs, she would be happier never having puppies

If you want to make her happy you should have her spayed before she has these puppies

She wont be able to have puppies again, but she will thank you for this, you are not taking something away from her
You are giving her the chance to be less stressed and have a lower chance of disease 

Talk to a vet about having her spayed asap


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

JessieLove09 said:


> Just fyi: they are publicly funded. Its not a 5-star luxury hotel.Most SPCA's will provide the low cost spay/neuter and vaccinations.


I never said they weren't publically funded, just that they have better funding, therefore better programs. Oh, and SPCA's are not the same as County shelters in most places and accept private donations.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

besos said:


> take your dog to the vet! beg for the money if you have to.
> If those where my neighbors it would be a life changing expierence for the parents of those two monsters that let your dog out. just the fact that they own a pit pull and theyre living with a family member explains everything


What the hell does "owning a pitbull" have to do with any of this? Is it only irresponsible people that own pits. NO. Is it only BAD people tht have a hard luck case in their lives and are forced to move back with their parents? NO! 

Wow... that one takes the cake for most ignorant (as in uneducated not rude) comment on my list for the day.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

besos said:


> If those where my neighbors it would be a life changing expierence for the parents of those two monsters that let your dog out. just the fact that they own a pit pull and theyre living with a family member explains everything


Excuse me? I own a Pit Bull and while I live in my own place, it is owned by my parents. What does that have to do with anything here? Heck what does owning a Pit Bull have to do with anything? 

It was irresponsibility on BOTH sides that lead to this. Leaving a Bitch out in heat, and allowing an intact male out to roam caused this issue.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

besos said:


> take your dog to the vet! beg for the money if you have to.
> If those where my neighbors it would be a life changing expierence for the parents of those two monsters that let your dog out. just the fact that they own a pit pull and theyre living with a family member explains everything


 
Excuse me, but most Pitt Bull owners are responsible and most Pitts are excellent family dogs. The breed of dog they own has NOTHING to do with the conduct of a couple of stupid teenagers. BTW, you've just insulted about 3/4 of the forum, congratulations.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

besos said:


> take your dog to the vet! beg for the money if you have to.
> If those where my neighbors it would be a life changing expierence for the parents of those two monsters that let your dog out.* just the fact that they own a pit pull and theyre living with a family member explains everything*


WTH!? what kind of comment is that!


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

besos said:


> take your dog to the vet! beg for the money if you have to.
> If those where my neighbors it would be a life changing expierence for the parents of those two monsters that let your dog out. just the fact that they own a pit pull and theyre living with a family member explains everything


OMG ... is this ignorance or stupidity talking here? If it's ignorance you stand a chance, but we can't change stupid!  

Glad you are doing so well in this wretched economy that you've never had to rely on help from family to get by ... although you could use a little help from a dictionary with your spelling and grammar.

Educate yourself on pitbulls before you make such a generalization, as well.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

besos said:


> take your dog to the vet! beg for the money if you have to.
> If those where my neighbors it would be a life changing expierence for the parents of those two monsters that let your dog out. just the fact that they own a pit pull and theyre living with a family member explains everything


Gonna have to add my own "WTF does owning a pit bull have to do with anything?"

Jeezz Louise....it never ends....the ignorance, I mean...


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

OK guys, calm down...
We don't know what's up with this poster but responding like this may only encourage the 'ignorance'.


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## poofywoof (Nov 17, 2006)

In order to help you make a well informed decision about your dog and her likely pregnancy I am listing a few topics for you to research as you are thinking things through. Just google the following topics:
"Cost of raising a litter of pups"
"Caring for a pregnant dog"
"To breed or not to breed"
"Should I breed my dog?"
"Questions for responsible breeders"
"Pre-eclampsia in dogs"
"whelping problems in dogs"
"The care and raising of puppies"
If you take some time to read about these topics, you will perhaps realize that your dog's pregnancy and the care of her and the resulting pups is A HUGE undertaking with serious risks-- risks best left to the professional breeder. Risks most people don't take with their beloved pets/family members.


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## ara28 (Feb 18, 2008)

besos said:


> I think you mean *ignorant* (as in *uneducated* not rude)
> 
> This is me generalizing. I work in a service field that takes me to peoples homes of all different classes of people and this holds true probably 90% of the time
> 
> ...


WTH? 



<message too short>


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

besos said:


> I think you mean *ignorant* (as in *uneducated* not rude)
> 
> This is me generalizing. I work in a service field that takes me to peoples homes of all different classes of people and this holds true probably 90% of the time
> 
> ...



wrong. there is NO such thing as an inherently aggressive dog breed. that's where you are ignorant. 

Pit Bulls have been beloved family dogs for years...the thing about dogs is that they take on the aspects that their owners condition them to. the aggressive person didnt choose the pit bull because its aggressive....the aggressive person MADE the pit bull aggressive...and considering the typical pit bull temperament...that means these dogs are likely highly abused.

here's another little tidbit..an anecdotal one like yours...i live in a neighborhood with little to no problems...and about 15 pit bulls.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

besos said:


> I think you mean *ignorant* (as in *uneducated* not rude)
> 
> This is me generalizing. I work in a service field that takes me to peoples homes of all different classes of people and this holds true probably 90% of the time
> 
> ...


I'm just curious, but would you consider Rottweilers to be an "aggressive" animal?

By the way, just to educate you, Pit Bulls are wholly misrepresented in the media. They are extremely muscular and powerfully strong dogs, which is why they are commonly used in dog-fighting; however, if they are never TAUGHT aggression (just like any other dog), they are very loyal, loving, affection and people-friendly dogs.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Perhaps the reason you are seeing more pit bulls in what you consider "bad" neighborhoods is simply a difference in where people keep their dogs (indoor vs outdoor dogs), your own expectations (you are looking for them more in "bad" neighborhoods), and a trend specific to your city.

It is very poor form to generalize in that manner though, as many responsible people have pits (just like many irresponsible people have labs, beagles etc) and there are many pits who are customs dogs, search and rescue dogs, bomb dogs etc.

But the part of your comment that stood out to me as insulting was the "living with the parents" part.... this is a bad economy and many hard working people are moving in with family members. But even in good times, many people choose to live with their families for diverse reasons. Maybe they are helping an elderly parent, maybe the parent is providing childcare, maybe they are from a culture where families tend to live with several generations in the house (which was also common in the US up till a few generations ago) etc.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

For the OP... just a couple of thoughts on the "I feel bad taking away her ability to have puppies" thing.

-female dogs do not endure heats well. They can lead to false pregrancies if the dog is not bred. Think of how you feel when you have your menstrual cycle. Some women barely feel it, others are crippled by the pain.
- Intact females are prone to mood swings when approaching their heat cycle. Some behaviors can become unpredictable with the dog waxing and waning between serious depression to severe aggression depending on the dog. 
-A female that goes thru multipul heats with out being bred has a seriously increased risk of developing mammary tumors/breast cancer. 
if done before 2.5 years of age, greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumors, the most common
malignant tumors in female dogs
-nearly eliminates the risk of pyometra, which otherwise would affect about 23% of intact female dogs; pyometra kills about 1% of intact female dogs
-reduces the risk of perianal fistulas (which are nasty. You hope to never have to deal with that one in your lifetime). 
-removes the very small risk (0.5%) from uterine, cervical, and ovarian tumors.

So just some logic to add to your emotional decision about having her spayed. Being intact really does her no justice. Males are a different story but we're not talking about a male. Females truly do benefit greatly from being spayed in the long run. Stop humanizing her feelings and emotions and try to look at this locigally.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

besos said:


> I think you mean *ignorant* (as in *uneducated* not rude)
> 
> This is me generalizing. I work in a service field that takes me to peoples homes of all different classes of people and this holds true probably 90% of the time
> 
> ...


I would just like to add this link to hopefully give you something to read up on regarding Pit Bulls. It really enlightened me, personally. 

http://www.vrcpitbull.com/pitfaq.htm

I would also like to agree with Shell regarding the comments about living with family. Not only is it in very bad taste to denigrate those who are living with family, it is so very wrong to make assumptions as to why. 

It's a terrible economy that we are living in, people are living on the edge all over the place. Foreclosures are happening left and right. People who were once very comfortable and stable are living with haphazard uncertainty, in constant fear of losing their jobs, tightening their budgets any way they can.

It's just a shame that there's so much insensitivity, lack of empathy and compassion among us.


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Males are a different story but we're not talking about a male.


Again going off-topic, but in the hopes of further educating the OP more on dogs, in general: where male dogs are concerned, it's best to get them neutered as well due to the risk of testicular cancer, benign prostate enlargement, greater risk of being attacked by other intact male dogs (smelling of testosterone is like wearing gang colors), being hit by car or lost when going roaming in search of "romance", and risks of owner disapproval or abandonment due to various behaviors fueled by testosterone (fighting with other male dogs, lifting the leg in inappropriate places, escaping from home to roam, and perhaps greater tendency to conflict with owner, dominance.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

The point I was trying to make tho was that it is not as serious medically to keep a male intact as it is a female. There is a lot greater responsibility when owning a female in my opinion. Yes males stand a higher instance of behavioral problems but medically overall males fair far better intact than females do. 

Just to throw some stats around:

On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases.

On the positive side, neutering male dogs
• eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
• reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)

On the negative side, neutering male dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
• triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
• quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

For female dogs, the situation is more complex. The number of health benefits associated with spaying may exceed the associated health problems in some (not all) cases. On balance, whether spaying improves the odds of overall good health or degrades them probably depends on the age of the female dog and the relative risk of various diseases in the different breeds.
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf (didn't you post this link somewhere on here once before Infiniti?)


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> For female dogs, the situation is more complex. The number of health benefits associated with spaying may exceed the associated health problems in some (not all) cases. On balance, whether spaying improves the odds of overall good health or degrades them probably depends on the age of the female dog and the relative risk of various diseases in the different breeds.
> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf (didn't you post this link somewhere on here once before Infiniti?)


No, I don't think that was me that posted that stuff. I agree with you that it's more important to spay females for health reasons than neuter males, but if I were a male-dog-getting owner, I would still neuter my male.  BUT, I prefer females over males for a myriad of reasons. In dogs and kids (I have two girls, and I wanted it that way!!! ) In fact, my snake is female too! There's A LOT of estrogen in my house!!! LOL


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

besos said:


> My comments where unacceptable and I would like to apologize for insulting anyone on this forum. It's just when I read things like this it paints a picture in my head that really irritates me. I realize that pit bulls are not bad dogs in the right hands and that all the statistics against them are caused by careless people not the dogs. My only point is careless people seem to love these dogs for some reason. Day in and day out I see these dogs on a chain in someone’s back yard being completely neglected growling at anything that moves as I think to myself this is an accident just waiting to happen. It doesn’t mean that anyone that owns a pit is an irresponsible pet owner and I was way out of line stereotyping like that Particularly about someone’s finacial status as yes this is a bad economy. Trust me I know


apology accepted. Im a low income single mom/college student with a pit bull whose family helps her out quite a bit. my pit doesnt like other dogs but she's a big ball of butter with people and cats and is extremely well trained and cared for. 

if you are talking about the news making it seem like careless people own these dogs.. check this site out www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com

and if its what you see...remember you are usually only seeing the surface of things. sometimes it is as bad as it seems and sometimes its not. like i walk my dog...she's aggressive towards other dogs but ive trained her pretty well..its only the rare instance when she starts going off at other dog(she's never offleash...ever) but when it happens im sure people assume the worst of me...but ive been training with her hard and i wont stop working on this for as long as it takes and its working. but you cant know that from a three second encounter on the street where all you see is an aggressively barking dog...most people skedaddle..understandably so...but the ones who dont see me get her under control almost immediatly.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

infiniti said:


> No, I don't think that was me that posted that stuff. I agree with you that it's more important to spay females for health reasons than neuter males, but if I were a male-dog-getting owner, I would still neuter my male.  BUT, I prefer females over males for a myriad of reasons. In dogs and kids (I have two girls, and I wanted it that way!!! ) In fact, my snake is female too! There's A LOT of estrogen in my house!!! LOL


Mine is the polar opposite. Luna, and I are the only gals (aside of the 4 rabbits in the rabbitry). Both kids are boys, 4 of the dogs are boys, well hubby obviously  even my 14 yr olds ball python is male. It a testosterone fest here


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> even my 14 yr olds ball python is male.


Hey, my ball python is 14 yrs. old too!  She'll be 15 this year - August.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

infiniti said:


> Hey, my ball python is 14 yrs. old too!  She'll be 15 this year - August.


no honey... my 14 year old SON's ball python... the snake itself is actually only 4


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## QuidditchGirl (Apr 9, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Mine is the polar opposite. Luna, and I are the only gals (aside of the 4 rabbits in the rabbitry). Both kids are boys, 4 of the dogs are boys, well hubby obviously  even my 14 yr olds ball python is male. It a testosterone fest here


I got your estrogen here - I have 4 girls, 2 female cats and a female dog. My husband is the only male mammal in the house.


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## Jod-dog (Mar 28, 2010)

We're pretty even here. 2 girls (me and dd) and two boys (dog and dh)...unless you count the betta--then there are 3 boys! LOL


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## infiniti (Mar 19, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> no honey... my 14 year old SON's ball python... the snake itself is actually only 4


Ooops, sorry! Misread. Well, my snake is the same age as your son! LOL 

My daughters, on the other hand, are 21 and 18! Snake is 14, dog is 2.5.

*NO* husband, boyfriend, SO, OH, FWB, at all!!! And I like it that way!!!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

besos said:


> My comments where unacceptable and I would like to apologize for insulting anyone on this forum. It's just when I read things like this it paints a picture in my head that really irritates me. I realize that pit bulls are not bad dogs in the right hands and that all the statistics against them are caused by careless people not the dogs. My only point is careless people seem to love these dogs for some reason. Day in and day out I see these dogs on a chain in someone’s back yard being completely neglected growling at anything that moves as I think to myself this is an accident just waiting to happen. It doesn’t mean that anyone that owns a pit is an irresponsible pet owner and I was way out of line stereotyping like that Particularly about someone’s finacial status as yes this is a bad economy. Trust me I know


Thank you for your response here. It IS all too easy to see the problem dogs and assume things from there. Unfortunately, the pit bull's reputation DOES mean that many irresponsible people gravitate towards them (along with other stereotypically "mean" breeds or tough looking dogs). The dogs become status symbols to people wanting to look tough. But assuming anything about an owner based on the breed of dog is a lot like assuming something based on the type of car someone drives. For every person that "proves" a stereotype, there's someone who breaks it.

The dogs you see chained like that all day, every day probably ARE an accident waiting to happen. But its no different than my neighbor's german shepherd that is an aggressive, neurotic, outdoor only dog that never receives any attention beyond food and water. The treatment is what turned the dog into that aggressive, miserable poor thing as opposed to the good treatment and training that has produced the well behaved, healthy GSDs acting as guide dogs all over town.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

In an effort to get this thread back on topic...

Please get your dear girl spayed ASAP. Take your very kind neighbor up on his offer to pay for the spay. This will be a good thing for your girl. You won't have to worry about this problem happening again. Hopefully your neighbor will also get his boy neutered. 

I love my dogs very much and they are my children since I couldn't have any human children of my own. I would never breed my dog for money, ever. I wouldn't want to risk them getting hurt or dying and I certainly wouldn't want to put all those puppies out there in what could be horrid homes just so I could make a buck.


Edit: Besos, I think it was big of you to apologize and I think it is a good reminder to all of us to realize that what we see (ex. pits in bad homes) is not always all there is to a story. Good for you for being willing to learn the other part of this story, I commend you for that.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

momof3 said:


> Sorry but this sounds like a troll. Just posting to stuff on a board that is easy to tell against just random breeding. I maybe wrong but I just don't know.


Yes, you just don't know. That is why backseat moderating is a violation of forum rules.

If everyone who asked a naive or ignorant question was a troll, I can promise you the membership here would be about 10% of what it now is.


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