# The Utility Obedience Thread!!!



## MrsBoats

Finally!!! I'm going to start this so TrainingJunkie and I (and whoever else) can commiserate over "Futility". :becky:

So...go outs and directed jumping from the other night. The bugs were BAD and we were getting eaten alive...so we did this and called it a night. What I have going on there is a box on the ground that I taught Lars to run to and sit in it facing me. I hate watching dogs surf the ring gates looking for food...so I decided to go this route instead. The ex-pen is there because Lars started to bow out to the side so he could just run into the box instead of spinning and sitting. That's a barrier so he has to spin and sit. The rest of it...Mr. agility dog made it easy to teach. LOL






I did some moving stands with him and my friend inside and they were awesome. I'm kicking myself I didn't record them. We'll see how the bugs are this weekend and I'll see if I can get some more stuff posted.

(Note to self...never wear that shirt again in public....holy muffin top. LOL)


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## Emily1188

I will be observing this thread.  I have a dog I'm showing in Open, hoping to finish her CDX next weekend actually (but aren't we always hoping? LOL). I do not know if this particular dog will ever do Utility (she is 8 and I think I would like to spend our remaining time doing some agility!) but I'm certainly looking to get my other dogs there eventually. 

I'm at work but I want to watch your vid when I get a chance. I'm very interested in discussing methods for teaching the send out. Likewise, I'm not in love with the food on the wall/ring gates method.


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## MrsBoats

The more the merrier and please feel free to chat with us!!! I haven't trialed a dog in Utility before...I dabbled in training it with Sammy, my rescue. So this is more or less unchartered territory for me. I find teaching scent articles terrifying. I can't tell you how many times I've started messing around with them, then stopped, then started...then stopped. I made a deal with myself that once I got the rest of utility in a place I'm comfortable with...I'll tackle those. LOL I think that teaching one new thing is less daunting than teaching 6 new things all at once....but that's just me. 

I have seen a couple of people who use a small hula hoop for send/go outs. Lars' breeder uses a picture frame for Lars' mom (who is working on her UD right now.) Mr.Boats made me a box that would fit Lars and his butt. Maybe I can take some video to show you how to start with a box with Ocean. He's a go out virgin and he will be perfect. Lars is too seasoned now with the box. 

AND....good luck next weekend!!!!


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## Emily1188

MrsBoats said:


> The more the merrier and please feel free to chat with us!!! I haven't trialed a dog in Utility before...I dabbled in training it with Sammy, my rescue. So this is more or less unchartered territory for me. I find teaching scent articles terrifying. I can't tell you how many times I've started messing around with them, then stopped, then started...then stopped. I made a deal with myself that once I got the rest of utility in a place I'm comfortable with...I'll tackle those. LOL I think that teaching one new thing is less daunting than teaching 6 new things all at once....but that's just me.
> 
> I have seen a couple of people who use a small hula hoop for send/go outs. Lars' breeder uses a picture frame for Lars' mom (who is working on her UD right now.) Mr.Boats made me a box that would fit Lars and his butt. Maybe I can take some video to show you how to start with a box with Ocean. He's a go out virgin and he will be perfect. Lars is too seasoned now with the box.
> 
> AND....good luck next weekend!!!!


Eeeesh scent articles. LOL. Right now my Open dog has a decent moving stand, and can do the signal exercises. That's all. LOL! I am also intimidated by teaching the UD exercises. Ugh. 

For the go outs I was thinking of perhaps making a PVC "frame", since it will be lightweight and I can try fading it out by removing one side at a time. Hmmmm...


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## MrsBoats

If they scare you too...then come and train along with us. I've been bumbling along on my own for the most part. Not a lot of people teach a utility class around here and those who do...I'm not 100% on board with how they teach stuff (like food on ring gates for example.) The others Lars is a little intimidating for because they are more used to less drivey dogs. There's one woman up in MA who "does high drive dogs" and I had planned on taking privates from her (at the tune of $85/hour.) Then Mr. Boats left his job and started a new business...so I can't shell out $85/hour for a lesson right now. So, a bumbling I go. 

I hope this thread will make me get out there and train Lars (instead of getting into online "disagreements" on here. ROFLMAO!!)

I actually really, really like the idea of a PVC box/frame. In fact I like that more than the box I have now. I think I may make myself a PVC box for when I'm ready to start fading it away. Hmmmmm....indeed.


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## trainingjunkie

I have a lesson next Thursday with one of Denise Fenzi's trainers! All for utility! I SO can't wait!!!

Gator is fully trained in all of the exercises. Now it's just proofing. We could title in our back yard and at our training places... We are close.

BUT, the proof is in the proofing and we are not proofed for trial. Man I hope she has some good ideas. I am so eager to be in the ring!


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## MrsBoats

That is soooo cool!!!!! Have fun!!!


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## petpeeve

MrsBoats said:


> Finally!!! I'm going to start this so TrainingJunkie and I (and whoever else) can commiserate over "Futility". :becky:
> 
> So...go outs and directed jumping from the other night. The bugs were BAD and we were getting eaten alive...so we did this and called it a night. What I have going on there is a box on the ground that I taught Lars to run to and sit in it facing me. I hate watching dogs surf the ring gates looking for food...so I decided to go this route instead. The ex-pen is there because Lars started to bow out to the side so he could just run into the box instead of spinning and sitting. That's a barrier so he has to spin and sit. The rest of it...Mr. agility dog made it easy to teach. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some moving stands with him and my friend inside and they were awesome. I'm kicking myself I didn't record them. We'll see how the bugs are this weekend and I'll see if I can get some more stuff posted.
> 
> (Note to self...never wear that shirt again in public....holy muffin top. LOL)


Are you hoping for tips and suggestions, a 'constructive critique' if you will ? ... or are you merely looking to gain sympathy for your training addiction ? ...  lol

I have some ideas about your vid, but the last thing I want to do is offend.


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## Abbylynn

This is an awesome thread! It is great to follow along and learn some new things. I never competed in utility or agility and the such ... but would like to learn about it.


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## Shep

I wish I had your nice, flat yard. My yard slopes so much my dogs have to jump uphill or downhill, depending on my mood.  And it's hard to keep the ring gates from falling over!


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## MrsBoats

petpeeve said:


> Are you hoping for tips and suggestions, a 'constructive critique' if you will ? ... or are you merely looking to gain sympathy for your training addiction ? ...  lol
> 
> I have some ideas about your vid, but the last thing I want to do is offend.


Oh no!! I'm looking for tips and constructive critiques because I'm not training with anyone right now. I've started really training utility this spring when the weather broke. So I've only been at it a couple of months. 

People have told me we could be an OTCH contender one than just a couple of times. If a tip you have will help us get there....please lay it on me


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## petpeeve

Well, I'm not so sure that my tips could be THAT groundbreaking  but anyways here are a few to consider ...

*You are 'training in' a bark. Your dog does this each time just before you send him. I'd be careful with that, maybe if / when it ever happens just break it off and set him up again. Only send him if he doesn't bark. Excitement and enthusiasm is nice to have and all, but if it happens at a trial it will likely cost you some points off.

*You are asking your dog to sit after he has begun to make the turn. I would give him the cue slightly before he gets there. The mechanics really should be similar to that of a ScH send away .. ie: 'keep going, until I tell you otherwise'.

*During the jumps you are turning to face your dog too early. You should be turning while your dog is actually in the air, not before. Again, at a trial this may be construed as an extra command. So, be careful with that too.


As you can see, (and as you probably already realize), Utility is often about the ultra-fine details. If you pay proper attention to those details I'm certain that you will end up with a serious OTCH contender. Lars is a very good dog, to say the least.


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## MrsBoats

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! The details in Utility will screw you if you don't get them right. He's a very good dog...the judges will look to me to screw things up. Seriously...if you see me do freaky stuff through out this thread...please tell me. I don't have any eyes watching me that know utility. I am going to start heading to run thrus and work the pieces we have soon. 

I've been working on the timing of the sit command on the go out...I'll make it a little bit earlier. I had no idea on the directed jumping turn. Thank you for that. The bark...Lars has been known to bark during obedience runs and has lost points for it before. To his credit in that video, I gave him a speak command to amp him up a little bit. He's definitely lower key at home than he is anywhere else. LOL Thanks though....I really appreciate it.


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## packetsmom

Complete newbie here (I'm watching this thread, though...we have several dogs who do both AKC and ScH and I've considered one day cross-training).

One thing that sprang to mind...we have a couple of ScH dogs in the club that have started to anticipate the "plotz" (down) that is given in the send-away. (The dogs are supposed to run at full speed straight toward a target and then only stop and drop when given the plotz command by the owner at the direction of the judge.) These two dogs love to anticipate what the handler wants, so they start slowing down right around the time the plotz will generally come. In training, they are working them out of it by doing send-outs with no command to drop, over and over and only once the dog is running them clean, occasionally giving the down command.

I am not sure if something like this will help with him, but thought I'd toss it out there.


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## MrsBoats

I will have to think how that would translate to the go out. I think I do want Lars to charge out there and he knows his job is to run to that ring gate and then turn and sit. I just have to work on my timing of the command to correspond to that behavior. I don't want him to start stopping short waiting for me to tell him too. I actually taught this all without the "Lars SIT!" for the first couple of months. I just added that about a month ago. 

What you suggested does work for the Open Drop on Recall. Lars will anticipate that. When I call him before the drop...I use the command "Come" and that's the only time he ever hears "come" from me. For a regular formal recall, I use "Front." Lars comes in hard and fast with his recalls and the "come" let's him know what really is coming next. Once he's in the down, I use "front" for the rest of the recall. I will drop him randomly and sometimes I drop him 3' from where he took off from to 3' in front of me and anywhere in between. I'll have friends play judge and have them tell me when to drop him so I don't pattern him by accident. The one thing I love about him is he watches me so closely that he watches my eyes during drop on recalls when they flick to the judge or friends acting as judges when they signal me to drop. He must see my eyes flick up and then my mouth opens with the command and he drops like a rock because he knows my patterns. I do drop him with a verbal (unless it's a loud venue.) If Lars does start the creep/run he does when he going to anticipate, I do a couple of different things. Sometimes I'll just repeat the command and that will pull him out of it and I won't drop him. Sometimes I will take off running in the opposite direction and sometimes I'll spin in place like I'm going to take off running and then drop him right in front of me.

FYI - I have officially started articles again...I'll get some vids of that when I feel comforaable showing that off. I'm glad that he hasn't forgotten where we were last.  I did bring all of my obedience stuff to that NADAC trial to practice and proof in between runs. We did some directed retrieves and works some small piles of the metal articles on the artificial grass. I was really pleased how he did off home turf.


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## MrsBoats

For those of you guys who are unfamiliar with Utility Obedience but are following this thread - this is a video of Bridget Carlsen and her Saucy who make it look really easy. LOL I've been studying this video non-stop!


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## trainingjunkie

MrsBoats said:


> I will have to think how that would translate to the go out. I think I do want Lars to charge out there and he knows his job is to run to that ring gate and then turn and sit. I just have to work on my timing of the command to correspond to that behavior. I don't want him to start stopping short waiting for me to tell him too. I actually taught this all without the "Lars SIT!" for the first couple of months. I just added that about a month ago.


I sometimes train with clear dowels. They are about 1/2 an inch thick and about 6 inches long. You buy a piece of the clear plastic dowels at a hardware store and cut them to size. Anyway, I take 3 dowels and place them in the "go out" position. My dog doesn't/can't see them. Then I send my dog on a go out. As he reaches the spot where he needs to sit, I either call for a sit or I call "take it." If I call the sit, he turns and sits. If I call "take it" he grabs a dowel and does a retrieve. Most of the time he only grabs a single dowel, but on occasion, he has returned with multiples, which is not really desirable...

If this is confusing, I can shoot some video. This exercise keeps the dogs from stopping short as they are never sure if they will be sitting or fetching...


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## MrsBoats

I have never seen anyone around this neck of the woods teach it with dowel sticks...it's always been food on the center stantion. My biggest fear about food on stantions is Lars roaring out to the ring gates when he's electrified with that drive of his and smashing the whole line of gates over looking for his cheese. I'm not worried about sniffing...I'm worried about him destroying the ring. 

I totally understand what you mean because I saw it before in this blog (which is awesome BTW) - http://exercisefinished.blogspot.com/2010/06/go-out-go-back-go-away-just-go.html

Are you ever worried about having Gator frantically searching for a dowel despite giving the sit command?? That would be my one concern about that....Lars thinking "That dowel is here somewhere!" at a trial. Or having him running out to a dumbbell and then turning and sitting for a real retrieve. Training stuff that looks like other exercises scare me because of "grey areas" that can confuse a dog.


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## trainingjunkie

If I call for the retrieve, there is no reward until there is a finished front. Gator prefers the sit. It's quick and concrete and gets paid. The dowels, in his mind, are a headache. He absolutely won't look for the dowels unless I call for them. It's a good method for him.


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## petpeeve

MrsBoats said:


>


MrsBoats - one thing I really like is the way she gives her dog a "mark" before sending her. You might want to consider adding that.
personal preference: that the dog re-focus to me after the mark rather than fixate on the destination.

Other points of note. 
I like how she sets the dog up with her left foot before bringing her right foot into position, at the beginning of each exercise.
That's a lot of scent on the articles, perhaps way more than necessary.
She shifts her feet just a bit to the right for the stand in the SE. Nit-picking now, but still ...

All in all a very nice run ! and a good one to study and learn from.


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## elrohwen

I just love how bouncy and happy Saucy is in that video.


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## petpeeve

elrohwen said:


> I just love how bouncy and happy Saucy is in that video.


Yeah, me too! 

REALLY difficult to find fault with that run. It was sharp, crispy, and accurate as far as I could tell from a restricted pov. I hope nobody thought I was being unduly critical with my previous comments, .. just that MrsB was studying the vid as an example and I figured a cautionary note or two might be in order.


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## trainingjunkie

I had an incredible Utility lesson. I learned so many things that I now feel confident that a UD is achievable before the end of the year.

The biggest thing that I learned is that I need to SLOW SLOW SLOW down. My dog and I are way too alike. I get a little high, he gets a little higher... I was reminded that there is a ton of down time in Utility, so I need to train with the delays and the inactivity. 

Also, specifically for the go-out, I have to be able to let my dog know in advance what the exercise is. I need a ritual phrase so he know that the go out is next. 

I have been working very hard on a straight, down-the-middle send. While I get a lot of help on how to attain that, my instructor also taught me how to train my dog to take the correct jump from a wrong (or very wrong) position. Even if my dog heads to the wrong corner, it's only 3 points. If he is deep enough and can find the correct jump, we are still alive. She showed my how to proof finding the correct jump by using my motion in the wrong direction, causing my dog to really concentrate on the signal and not his own assumptions. Very, very helpful.

I learned a lot more, but I will type it up later if people are interested.


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## SDRRanger

Please type it later. I have been watching this thread and am so impressed with how well trained the dogs are.


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## trainingjunkie

For the Go-Out, the dogs are taught to use the jumps as a visual to help them find center. To assist this, I am going back and back-training my dog to run through 2 orange cones. To start, I will place the two cones close together about 10 feet from a fence. I will use my clear dowels at the center point against the fence. (My dog can't see them until he is on them. I will use my "Go out Pre Cue" and then send him between the cones. When he gets to the fence, I will either call for the sit or the retrieve. This keeps him going deep, which is imperative. Gradually, I will pull the cones apart. I will then use them in conjunction with the jumps, but the cones will be placed deeper and closer together. As my dog continues to succeed, I will start to gradually pull the cones diagonally towards the jumps until they are sitting inside of the jump bars. Then, the cones are removed and the dogs will be using the jumps as their guide instead of the cones. The jumps never need to be faded, so the transfer of understanding is really helpful.

This, coupled with teaching him to save the jump if her veers off-side, ought to get us through directed jumping...


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## MrsBoats

I haven't forgotten this thread! I just have had a super busy past week. I haven't done much with training either...stupid job!


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## trainingjunkie

I will video the go out work tomorrow so it makes more sense! Having fun with it!


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## trainingjunkie

Well, I know this thread keeps dying, but I thought I would admit that I just sent in my first entry form with a check in the "Utility A" box. 

I feel just a little sick...

I guess you have to start trialing sometime...


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## Inga

funny story about a rookie mistake I made many long years ago. I listened to the wrong person at the training facility and when I decided to begin training my dog on articles, this man said,"you hold a beefstick in your hand for a second before hand. Then when you rub the article, the dog finds it easily" We also did a lot of treat training. Well, I had a smart alec for a Rottie at that time and at our first time out in the ring this rottien Rottie ran out, sniffed the articles put her front foot on the right one and looked at me like "show me the sausage lady" I was very embarrassed by her, I mean, MY mistake. I found that, that particular dog was an amazing demo or exhibition dog. Best sense of humor in the world but... showing just wasn't the right fit. I learned later on a more appropriate training method and no sausage. ha ha


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## trainingjunkie

Inga said:


> funny story about a rookie mistake I made many long years ago. I listened to the wrong person at the training facility and when I decided to begin training my dog on articles, this man said,"you hold a beefstick in your hand for a second before hand. Then when you rub the article, the dog finds it easily" We also did a lot of treat training. Well, I had a smart alec for a Rottie at that time and at our first time out in the ring this rottien Rottie ran out, sniffed the articles put her front foot on the right one and looked at me like "show me the sausage lady" I was very embarrassed by her, I mean, MY mistake. I found that, that particular dog was an amazing demo or exhibition dog. Best sense of humor in the world but... showing just wasn't the right fit. I learned later on a more appropriate training method and no sausage. ha ha


Oh no!!! I better retrain my articles!!!

I am certain that my clown will find clever ways to humiliate me. He is already a master at the "bodycheck" swing finish and the "bowling for handlers" front. Of course, he only does this at trial....


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## Inga

trainingjunkie said:


> Oh no!!! I better retrain my articles!!!
> 
> I am certain that my clown will find clever ways to humiliate me. He is already a master at the "bodycheck" swing finish and the "bowling for handlers" front. Of course, he only does this at trial....



Sometimes it truly IS the dog. That was the same dog that in the earlier stages of training had the worlds fastest recall. That said, she would also body slam into me and send me flying backwards, once out of the ring. I think I had backward knees for at least a year. That was a dog with a work ethic, she just spiced things up. High drive just needs to be worked with differently. ha ha


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## trainingjunkie

This is my freak's take on "backing up in heel position." This picture is just a few weeks old. The only reason my arm is raised is to prevent nipping... IF there was audio, you would hear him YIPEing. Mind you, he was high combined 5 out of 10 trials for his RAE, so he doesn't suck...


I am terrified of Utility... Unlike you though, I have yet to be slammed out of a ring.


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## petpeeve

trainingjunkie said:


> I feel just a little sick...


Usually reserved for trial day. Talk about advance preparation, lol.

Don't be terrified, I'm sure you guys will do A-OK when the time comes. Positive thoughts, girl. Positive thoughts.


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## trainingjunkie

Well, our debut has been completed!

Our first utility attempt was a close, but no Q! My dog crouched low on the signal exercises but didn't go fully down. I gave a verbal to get him all the way to the mat. Otherwise, we were perfect and only lost 3 points in the remaining exercises! I am elated!!!

Then, we went into Grad Open and won the class with a 193 1/2. So, all in all, not bad!

Excited to try again! Looks like we were ready enough to enter!


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## Sparkles123

May I brag...once upon a time, way back in the nineteen eighties I trained my dobie all the way to his utility degree, he was awesome, but it took a lot of training and training and training!!! But I felt very accomplished! He loved the scent work and the directed jumping. Ok, thanks for letting me remember those days!


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## trainingjunkie

Sparkles123 said:


> May I brag...once upon a time, way back in the nineteen eighties I trained my dobie all the way to his utility degree, he was awesome, but it took a lot of training and training and training!!! But I felt very accomplished! He loved the scent work and the directed jumping. Ok, thanks for letting me remember those days!


Good for you! I hope to join the ranks soon! It sure was fun taking the leap!


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## Shep

trainingjunkie said:


> Well, our debut has been completed!
> 
> Our first utility attempt was a close, but no Q! My dog crouched low on the signal exercises but didn't go fully down. I gave a verbal to get him all the way to the mat. Otherwise, we were perfect and only lost 3 points in the remaining exercises! I am elated!!!
> 
> Then, we went into Grad Open and won the class with a 193 1/2. So, all in all, not bad!
> 
> Excited to try again! Looks like we were ready enough to enter!



Congratulations! Sounds like you had an excellent UA debut!


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## trainingjunkie

Today was better! We got our first Utility leg and another Grad Open leg! Sweet day!


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## Shep

Yay!! That is better!


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## Sparkles123

Congratulations!!well done! Great accomplishment!


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## elrohwen

Congrats! That's awesome!


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## MrsBoats

Hey all! I haven't been around because I have been busy with stuff...and working the boys. I think I finally have the fire in my belly to get real about our UD. So, we did some go outs tonight...I think we're getting close with that. I have an x-pen as a reminder for Lars to head in straight and not bow out for the spin sit. I was pretty happy with what we had. I always make sure I have the jumps there when we do the go out for visual markers for his path...that's what I was trying to say on the video. 






And...Ocean is starting to do "little boy" go outs. LOL....and he LOVES this new game!!


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## petpeeve

MrsBoats said:


>


 I like the timing of your 'sit' cue. Much better 

Have you begun to fade the xpen ? if he bows counter-clockwise, perhaps a small(er) barrier on the right side only, could be the next step. My advice would be to get that HUGE visual outta there asap. Just a thought.


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## MrsBoats

I'm happy to report that Lars and I did our first official Utility run thru last night! It went better than I expected...but there were some green to utility dog/handler stuff we have to work through. He didn't see glove 1 and I rushed marking it so he ran to glove 2. For Go Outs, I'm using a target box for him to sit in...and he didn't trust me that it was out there because it's dark and low profile. He tried to take a jump on the way out which he hasn't done in a good while but I think that was because of the confusion of where he had to go to. Once we figured out the box was out there...he was fine. Signals...I did them at 3/4 the distance to help him a little bit. Directed Jumping...nailed it. Moving stand...nailed it. Articles....nailed it. 

I have my work cut out for me this winter. We'll be taking our utility show on the road and hitting as many run thrus and ring rentals as we can. I think my target show date is April when the spring shows start. A deadline will get my butt in gear and get out there.


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## trainingjunkie

Well, it took 9 tries, but we did it. We got our UD this morning. What a very sweet feeling. What a transformative journey to share with a dog. So grateful to have experienced this with my Novice A dog. He is a much better partner than I ever deserved. Very happy and more than a little sad that it's over.


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## elrohwen

That's fantastic! What a great accomplishment for both of you. 

I didn't realize he was your Novice A dog either. That just makes it all the more sweet.


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## trainingjunkie

Thank you! I think the Novice A thing adds something to it! He had to really endure a lot of nerves and mistakes on my part. It's amazing how forgiving dogs are. He made it through all of my craziness intact!


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## Shep

Congratulations on your wonderful, smart, (and beautiful) dog!


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## MrsBoats

YES!!!!! Congrats!!! I am so, so happy for you!!!!


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