# Anyone spank to discipline?



## ryuen90247 (Mar 30, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I'm new here so forgive me if this question has been asked 8,478 times lol...

I have a 6 month old puppy, and my partner and I have totally different beliefs in how to discipline/train a dog. I strongly believe in showing dogs what the correct action is (i.e., right before using the bathroom on the rug, picking him up and running to the pad, then adding positive reinforcement), but I'm also the type to either scold (not necessarily yelling, but definitely louder and more firm), and sometimes spank depending on what he does.

Does anyone else spank or scold their dogs? Does it work?

My dog doesn't seem to listen to my partner, and only seems to respond well to this method. Your thoughts?

I also noticed that putting him in the bathroom for time out after making a mistake seems to stop it from happening. Does that work for anyone else?

Thanks in advance=)

Robert


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Scolding and hitting the dog don't work. There's certainly nothing wrong with a sharp No! to interrupt an action. But, to threaten the dog and make it afraid is not the training you want. You want a calm confident dog...not a fearful, cringing one.
The time-out techinque is a very powerful behavior modification device. You put the dog into social isolation and are looking for a NEW behavior when they come out. This is NOT like sending a child to their room to 'think about it'. You must reward/guide the dog in the new behavior that is being displayed otherwise it's useless.
Here's an example of how it works....dog is constantly jumping up to say Hi. You walk away....leaving the dog isolated with no one else in the room. You come back in 2 minutes and now he's just standing there. That's the new behavior...exactly what you want (no more jumping) but, you have to work with that...reinforce/reward it.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Spanking is not very effective, and can, in fact, cause a dog to become fearful and aggressive. 

I highly reccomend you read this article and get to truly understand HOW dogs learn.
Open Paw's No-Frills Explanation of How Dogs Learn


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

"Scolding" can work if the scold is the behavior you'd rather have. Like if Wally's trying to eat something off the ground when I tell him to go potty - a sharp "go potty" will get him back into what he was to do. But just saying stuff like "I told you not to do that, what's the matter with you..etc, etc" that's not going to work. He doesn't know what any of that means. Any reaction is probably from the tone (sounds like loud, harsh barking, and your body language)

I never spank, at least not physically. The most "spanking" I'll do is with my eyes and body language. I might lean over a little and move him back if he tries to just bolt out the door, or if he's trying to eat off the ground, I'll approach whatever he's about to eat and back him off it. Then it's over - we go back to doing whatever and I'm back to being neutral/positive.

Never physically grab or hit him in punishment. My physical interaction is "tickling" him and such during play.


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## Tricia_88 (Mar 3, 2009)

How do you spank a dog??? 

Something I have come to realize is that dogs do not relate at all the way humans do. You have to learn what they respond to. Mostly positive reinforcement. If a dog is doing what you want or something good, praise them. Don't give a lot of attention when they are "bad". The people here give great advice. I have no experience with the pee pads. I crate train. Take the puppy out often and when you can't supervise, it is crated. Almost foolproof. 

I also agree about the "time out". Another thing I have learned, dogs live in the moment. Time outs do not work with dogs. Especially with crate training. Never use a crate as punishment. It should be their safe place. 

I'm no expert, just sharing what I have learned.

Tricia


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## ColoradoSooner (Mar 26, 2009)

If a dog isn't doing what you want it to do, it's most likely because it doesn't understand what you want from him. And if he doesn't understand what you want from him, then you need to spend more time working with him in a positive, fun way. Spanking does nothing to teach. It's very confusing to the dog and counter-productive.

Think of it from his perspective. You're in a room with people who speak a different language. They are barking orders at you. You have NO idea what they want. And because of that, they hit you. Does that make you understand any better what they want from you? 

Remember, it takes time and patience to learn one another's "language." Again, if your dog doesn't understand, it's YOUR responsibility to learn how to communicate with him more effectively.


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## DobManiac (Aug 12, 2007)

I don't punish. But I do say a sharp "No" when they are getting in to something. Then when I have their attention I distract the dog with a good thing to do instead and praise. The farthest I get with scolding is giving Olivia a "harsh" look when she jumps up on the bed. It freaks her out and she scurries right off. But there is nothing physical in that, it is just body language.


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

I've never once spanked my dogs. They don't understand what it means, only that I'm hurting them and its doesn't accomplish anything but relieve _our_ frustration. 

If they do something that they aren't supposed to do, me saying their name sternly or with "warning" is all that is needed to communicate what they are currently doing is not allowed.

When my Mastiff was a puppy, I did kind of put him in "time out" but then not really. If he was driving me up the wall, sometimes I'd put him in his crate so *I* could take a break but there were no negatives associated with it, like I didn't yell at him or anything. I just put him in his crate with a toy with as little fuss as possible.


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

hands are not nor will they ever be for hitting. Hitting and animal is pretty low in my opinion and if that dogs happens to fight back, that dog is going to be the pne penalized....keep your hands to yourself or use them to pet the dog...never ever hit with them. they are for loving only.


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## AkiraleShiba (Dec 9, 2007)

+1 JBS

I also wanted to add that yelling at a dog will only increase his treshold and when yelling becomes normal, you'll have to yell for everything.

6 month is a hard age so your pup may begin to act up, remain calm and consistent in your training and you'll have a well-behaved dog at 1 yo !


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

AkiraleShiba said:


> I also wanted to add that yelling at a dog will only increase his treshold and when yelling becomes normal, you'll have to yell for everything.


If I suddenly yell at Wally - oh I'll get his attention because I don't do it (often).

If you ALWAYS yell - then yeah, he'll think it's your normal tone.

But to say Yelling = Yelling never working - it depends on how the communication has been.

If you whisper all the time, I bet a normal tone of voice will startle them. Just like speaking in a neutral volume - then you go higher or lower - it gets their attention faster because it's different.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

I gave my pup a little tap in the butt whenever he would try to hump legs, with a firm NO after it, he no longer does, but it is probably because of the NO, because a tap in that furry butt can't be felt for sure


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## Entwine (Jan 14, 2009)

I've never spanked my dog and never thought it worked.. Pretty much the same story as many others here.

My methods of "punishment" (if you want to call them that) are to give Misty a sharp "No" and redirect her to doing something acceptable. It's gotten to the point where if I say "No", she'll look at me and focus and wait for a command. If I don't give one, she will walk away from what she was doing (about to investigate the trash, food, etc) and pick up a toy or something that I've previously redirected her to do.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> does anyone else spank or scold their dogs? Does it work?


no, never!


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

Erick Aguilar said:


> I gave my pup a little tap in the butt whenever he would try to hump legs, with a firm NO after it, he no longer does, but it is probably because of the NO, because a tap in that furry butt can't be felt for sure


If as you say he can't feel the tap then why even bother? Why not just use the firm no instead. Hands are NOT for hitting.


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## Jessieanne (Feb 8, 2009)

Me and every one I know spanks there dog from time to time. But I have seem what to many spanks have done to a dog (makes her cower) and that makes me keep my spanks to a minimum beacuase I never want my dog to cower from me. But I see nothin wrong with a swat on the butt when they are being really bad, as long as its not an all the time/daily thing


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Does anyone else spank or scold their dogs? Does it work?


Nope, never, ever, not once. As others have said, hands are NOT for hitting. I've never laid a finger on Kuma, and never will, and he listens to me just fine. Training is far more effective when you teach your dog what you want it to do, instead of hitting it for doing the wrong things.


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## Corteo (Jan 7, 2009)

I...would...never...


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## novachampion (Apr 3, 2009)

i will use spank to discipline on some occassions but only when the dog is out of control or going after the cat or has robbed and raided the bins, he knows it is wrong and will not listen to me at all.


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

novachampion said:


> i will use spank to discipline on some occassions but only when the dog is out of control or going after the cat or has robbed and raided the bins, he knows it is wrong and will not listen to me at all.


to me this is disguting...you are not teaching your dog to listen, instead you are teaching the dog that when you raise your hand EVER, even if it is to give a pet that it needs to be guarded because you might hit him. Poor dog. Hitting is a cowards way out, instead of doing positive things, you result to hitting a poor animal..one day that animal will fight back, than who's gonna be in trouble? surely not you....the poor dog will be. How many times does it have to be said HANDS ARE NOT FOR HITTING, they are for loving, for petting, for snuggling, but NEVER for hitting. 

ETA: I realize my reply sounds snarky, I am just so sick of hearing people resorting to violence instead of the more sensible and practical options.

Instead of hitting him, make the litter box inaccesible, cats are smart they will figure out how to get in it, especially if you show them. Put him on a leash and when you see him go near it, pull him away and say "leave it" he WILL get the message eventually. if my 3.5 month old pup is capable of learning leave it than so is yours....Hitting is taking teh lazy way out, "instead of training him I will just smack him"...what a way to live.


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## novachampion (Apr 3, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> to me this is disguting...you are not teaching your dog to listen, instead you are teaching the dog that when you raise your hand EVER, even if it is to give a pet that it needs to be guarded because you might hit him. Poor dog. Hitting is a cowards way out, instead of doing positive things, you result to hitting a poor animal..one day that animal will fight back, than who's gonna be in trouble? surely not you....the poor dog will be. How many times does it have to be said HANDS ARE NOT FOR HITTING, they are for loving, for petting, for snuggling, but NEVER for hitting.
> 
> Instead of hitting him, make the litter box inaccesible, cats are smart they will figure out how to get in it, especially if you show them. Put him on a leash and when you see him go near it, pull him away and say "leave it" he WILL get the message eventually. if my 3.5 month old pup is capable of learning leave it than so is yours....Hitting is taking teh lazy way out, "instead of training him I will just smack him"...what a way to live.



thank you for your insite into my life, i feel the need to hit my dog when he is doing something that is not acceptable and he will not listen to me what so ever. the cat is out of reach with a long gate as she has just had kittens, a child could not get through the gate but my dog can literally topple it over, 
my dog is not scared of me and usually listens very well to me and my training aids, 

i am far from a lazy person and i bring my dog on 4 mile walks every day and train with him twice a day, he is pretty advanced for his age in training and e is learning every day but if he gets fixated on something he will not listen at all. 

so before you start to accuse someone of animal cruelty just ask the person first why they do it, sometimes there is a very good reason


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

novachampion said:


> thank you for your insite into my life, i feel the need to hit my dog when he is doing something that is not acceptable and he will not listen to me what so ever. the cat is out of reach with a long gate as she has just had kittens, a child could not get through the gate but my dog can literally topple it over,
> my dog is not scared of me and usually listens very well to me and my training aids,
> 
> i am far from a lazy person and i bring my dog on 4 mile walks every day and train with him twice a day, he is pretty advanced for his age in training and e is learning every day but if he gets fixated on something he will not listen at all.
> ...


there is never a reason for violence...unless it is in self defense and I hardly see a dog eating from a litter box a reason for self defense....Our hands are for loving but never for hitting....let someone smack you next time you mess up....see how you like it...Dogs do not reason nor do they think like us human's do, hitting them will never work and if it does its sparked from fear nothing more....you try living your life afraid of being hit....it isn't pleasent I'm sure.


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## novachampion (Apr 3, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> there is never a reason for violence...unless it is in self defense and I hardly see a dog eating from a litter box a reason for self defense....Our hands are for loving but never for hitting....let someone smack you next time you mess up....see how you like it...Dogs do not reason nor do they think like us human's do, hitting them will never work and if it does its sparked from fear nothing more....you try living your life afraid of being hit....it isn't pleasent I'm sure.


i never said that he dog goes near the litter box, he just goes after the cat. as i said before it is when he will not listen and the cat is in danger (ie dog is walloping her with his pay or carrying her around the kitchen) i will discipline my dog how i like, it is the only thing that will work as he does not listen and goes into a trance like stage, its not like i wallop him and i usually make him submit to me afterwards and to the cat. i have lived with dogs all my life and have trained dogs before so i know what i am doing.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

novachampion said:


> i have lived with dogs all my life and have trained dogs before so i know what i am doing.


Explain classical conditioning. So basically you hit your dog because you have an inadequate gate and have not managed his behavior? How exactly is this the dog's fault?


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## novachampion (Apr 3, 2009)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Explain classical conditioning. So basically you hit your dog because you have an inadequate gate and have not managed his behavior? How exactly is this the dog's fault?


the gate is made for dogs and is really strong he will just do anything to get at the cat, 
i have trained him to leave her but he will not do it, the command leave it works on everything else but not when it invoves the cat. exactly how would you manage a dog that goes to kill another pet that you love and has just given birth to a littre of kittens. 

the dog knows he is not to go near the cat he has been taught this from day dot


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

novachampion said:


> i never said that he dog goes near the litter box, he just goes after the cat. as i said before it is when he will not listen and the cat is in danger (ie dog is walloping her with his pay or carrying her around the kitchen) i will discipline my dog how i like, it is the only thing that will work as he does not listen and goes into a trance like stage, its not like i wallop him and i usually make him submit to me afterwards and to the cat. i have lived with dogs all my life and have trained dogs before so i know what i am doing.


OHHH I see....so instead of teaching him, or leashing him to you so you can stop the unwanted behaviour as it happens, smacking him is better...I woudl have thought prevention would work better ....I don't think its the dog who needs training, i think it's you who does...hitting an animal, deplorable...NO you haven't trained him to leave the cat alone, because if you had there would be no reason to resort to hitting him. If you have hit him for it and he continues to do it, when does it become obvious that hitting is not working??



novachampion said:


> how would you manage a dog that goes to kill another pet that you love and has just given birth to a littre of kittens.


How? that dog would be leashed to me at all times, when dog went to go after cat a tug (not a harsh one) and a firm "no" or "leave it" would work, when dog obeys he gets treated EVERYTIMEm dog would learn by positive reinforcement.....dog would learn without getting hit, cat can rest and tend to her babies......Consistantly goes a long way....

Perhaps moving momma cat and babies to a room that is unaccesable to the dog would help as well.

You may find yourself saying "hitting doesn't work" one day and I hope its not as your dog is in the process of being euthanized for biting you or someone else.


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## novachampion (Apr 3, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> OHHH I see....so instead of teaching him, or leashing him to you so you can stop the unwanted behaviour as it happens, smacking him is better...I woudl have thought prevention would work better ....I don't think its the dog who needs training, i think it's you who does...hitting an animal, deplorable...NO you haven't trained him to leave the cat alone, because if you had there would be no reason to resort to hitting him. If you have hit him for it and he continues to do it, when does it become obvious that hitting is not working??


i have tried to teach him constantly since he was two years old and nothing has worked. so do not accuse me of not trying to teach him, i will not leash him within the house i have to study, clean and have my own space too. 
a smack on the bum to make him listen is completly different to actually beating and animal, he has never shyed away from me, let out a yelp or put his tail between his legs, i am doing it to gain his attention, as i said he goes into a trance, i do not need training, 

i hit to get attention nothing else works i have tried everything ive had dog trainers in and everything so if you can come up with something that would work other than leashing him 24/7 id be happy to listen but please stop making me out to be an animal abusuer because i am not

this is my final say on this topic, i hit to gain attention and it is nothing more than a pat on the bum.you have completly blown the whole thing out of proportion. 
i cannot move the cat
i will not leash the dog to me at all times, i have a busy life and cant be having him tied to me all day
i am not an animal abuser and i will discipline him how i see fit. he is not a vicious dog and a dog cannot get vicious from a pat on the bum


thank you for your input but i will not be replying to the conversation again as i dont want my first conversation on the websit to end in a big row


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

novachampion said:


> i have tried to teach him constantly since he was two years old and nothing has worked. so do not accuse me of not trying to teach him, i will not leash him within the house i have to study, clean and have my own space too.
> a smack on the bum to make him listen is completly different to actually beating and animal, he has never shyed away from me, let out a yelp or put his tail between his legs, i am doing it to gain his attention, as i said he goes into a trance, i do not need training,
> 
> i hit to get attention nothing else works i have tried everything ive had dog trainers in and everything so if you can come up with something that would work other than leashing him 24/7 id be happy to listen but please stop making me out to be an animal abusuer because i am not
> ...


 in an earlier post this month you posted you had a dog that was 6 months old, so you must have this 2 year old as well, how does the puppy get on with the cat? Have you tried putting pennies into a pop can and shaking them when he starts to go after that cat or when he gets the look just before he bolts? Really I would tether him to yourself when you are home, as soon as you see he is going to go after her, than give a sharp no or leave it...after a few times he should get it, some dogs are more stubborn I agree. When you cannot be home, crate him if you are not already. A spray bottle with water might work as well...chances are he has no idea why you just hit him as they associate at the scond, not 1 min later or sooner. So hitting him after he has has gone after the cat isn't going to teach him anything...but fear. I hear you saying it doesn't now but who really knows what effect your hands might have next week, next year or tomorrow? 

In all honesty there are way better ways to train and to discapline, hitting hands are not a way at all. I hear your frustration but hear mine as well, you are asking for other ways which mean that you also know in your heart its wrong to hit so thats good news. keeping him in your constant supervision will honestly be the best bet, be consistant. Some dogs are naturally prey driven, it's just the way they are but I also believe that these dogs can be taught IF we humans teach them properly, but in order for us to train dogs WE also need to be trained, to watch, beware and react properly when needed.


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## Donna5503 (Mar 13, 2009)

NO....do not hit a dog or spank a dog!

A stern louder voice will do ....dogs understand your voice --- 

When your dog does something good -- congratulate him with a nice, calm ...Good Boy/Girl voice

When your dog does something wrong -- discipline him with a STERN, louder, bolder ....Bad DOG voice 

All I have to say to my dog is ..."Bad Dog"...and he stays away. Never hit him - just discipline with those words and that voice and he knows he's done wrong.

...before you know it you'll be saying Good Boy/Girl alot more than Bad Dog!


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

I have never hit any of my dogs to discipline and never will. 

I take the time to train them properly from the start. I truly think it is low and disgusting that people still think its okay to spank a dog... dear lord. 

And yea... I too think it is laziness. If I can train a 135 lb dog, a 120 lb dog and all three of my smaller dogs, to listen to every command and can control all of them with a "No"... walk on a very loose leash, never jump, and to be an all around sound pet, then I think anyone can train there dog to do the same. IT'S CALLED CONSISTANCY AND PATIENCE PEOPLE.

(LoL... even though everyone always says, boy you could smack that dog 100x and he'd never feel it! -referring to my dane Callahan- even if... I would never do it)
Nessa


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

NovaChampion try this, it's effective, I too have a dog (doberman) that likes to chase the cat (it's called prey drive)


Be consistant and patient, don't hit, instead put yourself between the dog and the cat and 'bodyblock' the dog from chasing the cat (you have to aware of the dogs bodylanguage for this nad know the INSTANT it see's the cat and 'locks on' to it) with your body, hands out to the side (but never touching the dog ) push the dog backwards by stepping into it's space. The INSTANT the dogs bottom touches the ground and hte dog looks at YOU reward like crazy. What you will be doing is refocusing the dog and redirecting hte dogs attention to YOUR guidance instead of being focused on the cat.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/124898_dog-training-interrupting-bad-behavior.htm

Body blocking works well on nearly any animal and on humans (it's how I would prevent a shoplifter from running when I was doing Loss Prevention)

You also need to teach this 
Doggy Zen it will help with 'leave it' for everything.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

I love body blocking. This and the "step between them" move are two I find myself naturally inclined towards doing.

Gets the point across to Wally pretty strongly and I use it for everything from him breaking stays to his 'I have to move to do that' when he doesn't need to move, to protecting him from something else (like another dog).


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

I have slapped before (light slap, doesn't hurt, try it on yourself), and I've given a couple of good knocks on the nose before. Now, it's only reserved for the rare occasions, usually if I've got a dog on the table that's trying to eat me alive. (and yes, I do groom a couple of dogs at the kennel who will bite if they think they can get away with it)

Usually just a harsh yell will do if a situation arises where they aren't listening to anything else.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Eevee was hit and screamed at for the first 4 years of her life, by my entire family, and I nearly followed in their footsteps before I wised up. I saw how fearful and stressed out she was all the time, how she'd start cowering and shaking, and sometimes even peeing when anyone raised their voice. She was punished sometimes HOURS after getting into the trash or chewing something up and somebody would come home and find it.

When I moved out on my own and took her with me, it took several more years working with her to get her to where she wouldn't cower and run away when people would raise their voice, or when a door was slammed, or when a hand was raised.

So no, I don't hit my dogs. Eevee is a lot more trusting now, when she is not being hit. There are much better ways to train than hitting.


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