# Help, my dog bites too hard...



## maineepacquiao (Oct 16, 2007)

he's only 3 months old and i know you're suppose to let him bite but its starting to hurt too much. we named him rampage but we're thinking 'bout changing his name to Lucifer. What do we do, he likes to bite and he already shakes his neck and I'm afraid that our necks will be attacted to his teeth eventually when he does this. He loves us but he doesn't know when to stop. we tried saying no and leaving the room for about 3 weeks and it doesn't work. we tried the Dog Whisperers poking technique once and it only made him mad. now we're trying to ignore him but he seems to just bite our feet when we do that. Some one hook me up.

-Clockwork


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

maineepacquiao said:


> he's only 3 months old and i know you're suppose to let him bite but its starting to hurt too much. we named him rampage but we're thinking 'bout changing his name to Lucifer. What do we do, he likes to bite and he already shakes his neck and I'm afraid that our necks will be attacted to his teeth eventually when he does this. He loves us but he doesn't know when to stop. we tried saying no and leaving the room for about 3 weeks and it doesn't work. we tried the Dog Whisperers poking technique once and it only made him mad. now we're trying to ignore him but he seems to just bite our feet when we do that. Some one hook me up.
> 
> -Clockwork


When he bites, yelp loud, or say Ouch loudly, then turn away and leave. Make it known that ALL PLAY STOPS when he bites. And as for bite inhibition, do the same if he bites too hard. He has to know what you expect of him, that mouthing during play is ok, but Pressure is not ok. And that biting other areas like the feet is NOT ok.

http://www.dogforums.com/3-dog-training-forum/17394-quick-question-about-bite.html

Also, at 3 months, don't try the Dog Whisperer's things, lol. I've tried them all with my dog, and unless you have his knack for doing it CORRECTLY and at the RIGHT TIME, don't do it.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

maineepacquiao said:


> he's only 3 months old and i know you're suppose to let him bite but its starting to hurt too much.


You have been misinformed. You aren't supposed to "let him bite" you or any other person. If you mean you want him to learn 'bite inhibition', you don't do that by letting him bite you. 

In addition to stopping the undesirable behavior, you must make sure that at almost the same time you give him a positive behavior for which he can be rewarded. It doesn't have to be complicated - for example, give him a chew toy and praise him when he takes it - or give a simple "sit" command and praise him for that. Mix it up to make it interesting. Make sure that he has stopped biting first, and that he is paying attention to you. Leaving the room makes it difficult to do all that, so consider staying in the same room.

As for mouthing, consider this. A dog that is allowed to "mouth" people will be considered aggressive in most situations. *You* may know that he is being friendly, but the person who's body part is in the dog's mouth - especially if it is a child - will usually not consider it a friendly gesture at all. If you are willing to take that chance, that's your concern. 

However, it is an easy behavior to modify and to me, not worth retaining. In fact, you corrrect it in the same way that you corrected biting. At the end of the day*, you will have a dog that will be restrained from putting his open mouth on a person. What *advantage* do you see by encouraging any behavior other than this?

* It may take a lot longer than a 'day', so have patience.


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## Arriend (Nov 26, 2007)

How does this work with other dogs in the house?

Our first pup, a collie/aussie mix, was trained not to bite us, even in play, and doesn't even jump with her mouth open anymore, which is great...we introduced a new dog though (boxer mix) and the collie's way of "playing" is by biting...is this counter-productive? will she regress to biting us if she's allowed to bite another dog?

Sorry, didn't mean to infringe on another persons thread, comments can be sent through private messages, I just didn't want to flood the board with repeat threads.


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## prolibertate (Nov 7, 2007)

maineepacquiao said:


> he's only 3 months old and i know you're suppose to let him bite but its starting to hurt too much. we named him rampage but we're thinking 'bout changing his name to Lucifer. What do we do, he likes to bite and he already shakes his neck and I'm afraid that our necks will be attacted to his teeth eventually when he does this. He loves us but he doesn't know when to stop. we tried saying no and leaving the room for about 3 weeks and it doesn't work. we tried the Dog Whisperers poking technique once and it only made him mad. now we're trying to ignore him but he seems to just bite our feet when we do that. Some one hook me up.
> 
> -Clockwork


Read the links below to teach your dog bite inhibition and to 'leave it'. You can also say 'ouch' and leave the room without looking at, or saying anything to, your dog; then go into another room and shut the door so the dog can't follow you. Stay there 20-30 seconds without talking to the dog. Repeat this *every* time he nips at you...he needs to associate his biting with playtime being over, and losing your company. It can take a lot of repetitions to teach this; I did it 20 times the first night, but it worked; the key is consistency. Also, remember that dogs need to be taught the same things in different areas. I trained mine when he bit me while he was on the floor, then I had to also do it when he was on the couch and elsewhere. 

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/57

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/168

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/725

As far as the dog whisperer goes, I wouldn't try anything he advocates...how would anyone like being poked? They wouldn't. But his method doesn't stop the behavior for good; it only stops it for that moment and you want to stop them from doing it at any time. 

Training a dog doesn't give a fast return; it takes time, effort, patience, and consistency. Put it in the context of potty training a toddler - that can take a long time and can't start until they're about 1 1/2...yet people think a puppy can be potty trained in a week when they're 8 weeks old. Same thing with bite inhibition; first you have to teach them to have a 'soft' mouth, then you teach them to not bite at all. Doing the 'ouch' training and then teaching them 'leave it' can accomplish this.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Read this, and follow it! Be Ruthlessly consistant!!!! It WORKS!!!!!!

The *Bite* Stops Here



Poly said:


> You have been misinformed. You aren't supposed to "let him bite" you or any other person. If you mean you want him to learn 'bite inhibition', you don't do that by letting him bite you.
> 
> In addition to stopping the undesirable behavior, you must make sure that at almost the same time you give him a positive behavior for which he can be rewarded. It doesn't have to be complicated - for example, give him a chew toy and praise him when he takes it - or give a simple "sit" command and praise him for that. Mix it up to make it interesting. Make sure that he has stopped biting first, and that he is paying attention to you. Leaving the room makes it difficult to do all that, so consider staying in the same room.
> 
> ...


By following the bite INHIBITION training you teach a dog to have a 'soft' mouth. They still know they can use their mouth in play situations ( when invited). Remember that dogs don't have hands to explore and it's normal for them to use their mouths to do so. 

I happen to trust the judgement of people such as Ian Dunbar and Pam Dennison. Teach inhibition, not No Bite.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> By following the bite INHIBITION training you teach a dog to have a 'soft' mouth. They still know they can use their mouth in play situations ( when invited). Remember that dogs don't have hands to explore and it's normal for them to use their mouths to do so.
> 
> I happen to trust the judgement of people such as Ian Dunbar and Pam Dennison. Teach inhibition, not No Bite.


Generally, Dunbar and Dennison get it right insofar as training techniques are concerned. However , since they are dog trainers and not lawyers, they seem to ignore the realities of our contemporary litigious society. The idea that it is enough to teach that a 'soft bite' or mouthing is OK when '"invited" ignores the very real current social climate that we live in. 

Teaching bite inhibition is absolutely necessary and important as far as it goes, and I never said that it shouldn't be done for all dogs. 

However, for people who want to live in the real world of today, I suggest that they _*sincerely try*_ to teach their dogs to never put an open mouth on a person. You don't need to be violent about it - you can do it using the exact same techniques in the link. Just carry it out to its logical conclusion. 

If you can teach your dog to *not* mouth or soft bite a person * even when the dog thinks it is being invited to do so*, you may save yourself a lawsuit or worse. 

If it doesn't work, at least you will know where you stand. Then you can do whatever you must.


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## DogsforMe (Mar 11, 2007)

Listen to Ian Dunbar talk about important behaviour issues on www.dogstardaily.com (go to I woof!)


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Of course you don't want dogs to mouth randomly, but teaching a dog to have a soft mouth is important! It prevents accidents from happening in play be it with humans or other animals. Dogs need to know HOW and WHEN to use their mouths.


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## threedognite (Feb 10, 2007)

maineepacquiao said:


> he's only 3 months old and i know you're suppose to let him bite but its starting to hurt too much. we named him rampage but we're thinking 'bout changing his name to Lucifer. What do we do, he likes to bite and he already shakes his neck and I'm afraid that our necks will be attacted to his teeth eventually when he does this. He loves us but he doesn't know when to stop. we tried saying no and leaving the room for about 3 weeks and it doesn't work. we tried the Dog Whisperers poking technique once and it only made him mad. now we're trying to ignore him but he seems to just bite our feet when we do that. Some one hook me up.
> 
> -Clockwork


 Where did you learn that "you're suppose to let him bite"? You should never allow your dog to 'mouth' you. EVER. All you are doing is encouraging your dog to bite and now you have created a monster.
When your dog starts to 'mouth' your hand, tell him NO and offer him his chewie or toy. Purchase a spray bottle of bitter apple at your local pet store and spray your hands with it. When your dog mouths you again, spray a little of it in his mouth. 
If you watch the Dog Whisperer, you should know that YOU are the pack leader and pack leaders don't allow lower ranking members of the pack to bite them.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

threedognite said:


> Where did you learn that "you're suppose to let him bite"? You should never allow your dog to 'mouth' you. EVER. All you are doing is encouraging your dog to bite and now you have created a monster.
> When your dog starts to 'mouth' your hand, tell him NO and offer him his chewie or toy. Purchase a spray bottle of bitter apple at your local pet store and spray your hands with it. When your dog mouths you again, spray a little of it in his mouth.
> If you watch the Dog Whisperer, you should know that YOU are the pack leader and pack leaders don't allow lower ranking members of the pack to bite them.


Well stated...

My dogs chew on each other in play, they know they can be rough with our rope toys in play, but put their teeth on me...never. Because of today's society, and the risk of people not understanding the difference between the difference of a dog who is 'friendly mouthing' and wanting to bite, I don't teach my dog's to 'mouth me softly'.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

Love's_Sophie said:


> Well stated...
> 
> My dogs chew on each other in play, they know they can be rough with our rope toys in play, but put their teeth on me...never. Because of today's society, and the risk of people not understanding the difference between the difference of a dog who is 'friendly mouthing' and wanting to bite, I don't teach my dog's to 'mouth me softly'.


Thank you for taking the time to understand my point.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Arriend said:


> How does this work with other dogs in the house?
> 
> Our first pup, a collie/aussie mix, was trained not to bite us, even in play, and doesn't even jump with her mouth open anymore, which is great...we introduced a new dog though (boxer mix) and the collie's way of "playing" is by biting...is this counter-productive? will she regress to biting us if she's allowed to bite another dog?
> 
> Sorry, didn't mean to infringe on another persons thread, comments can be sent through private messages, I just didn't want to flood the board with repeat threads.


 
No, dogs are going to play with each other useing their mouths. They learn the 'limits' to how hard they are allowed to bite each other vry quickly and it doesn't convey to humans as long as you keep your rules CONSISTANT.


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

threedognite said:


> Where did you learn that "you're suppose to let him bite"? You should never allow your dog to 'mouth' you. EVER. All you are doing is encouraging your dog to bite and now you have created a monster.


Incorrect. Not teaching your dog when and how to mouth will create the monster. A dog is a dog, and they are going to mouth at one time or another, whether it's in play or anywhere else, and if it's not taught to have a soft mouth, what do you think the mouthing is going to be like? Probably not very soft. I know in play with my Betty, she likes to mouth, just like pups do with other pups when they are young, in play. And Betty has a very soft mouth, when she mouths me, I just feel her teeth touching my skin and that's it. She NEVER clamps down. Also, with this in mind, since she's comfortable with my hands in her mouth, I can do a teeth checkup on her, as well as the vet, and no problems. So IMO, your thinking is incorrect. And no, you DON'T create a monster. You do create a monster if you teach a dog to bite. Mouthing is completely different.


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## Skyler (Dec 4, 2007)

Im not an expert trainer although I have had dogs all of my life and trained them all very well. My last Border Collie for example had a serious issue with play biting / nipping that didnt seem to be cured by any other means than a complete end to biting.

I ended up having to use the gag method which is when the dog would bite your hands you place your thumb on the back of his tongue and your hand around his lower jaw. You then depress your thumb in increasing pressure until he begins to gag. Dogs (anyone for that matter) dont like that. It took a single day to cure him of his biting and he never mouthed again. 

The argument being that they later bite was also false in his case. Several times he was injured or a serious snag while brushing caused him to growl and go into the biting motion. However, he never opened his mouth while doing so and only pushed my hand with his muzzle. And afterward lowered his head with a big "sorry" on his face. This also was how he treated other people.

I never could get him to play bite after that in any form and he was wonderful around people even though he had a dominant pushy nature about him that comes with herding breeds. Could it be just my experience? I dont know but it has always worked for me to curb it completely. I intend on doing the same for my current Border puppy of 8 weeks.

I think a propper no bite means no bite. If a dog is hurting that bad Im not sure in the heat of the moment that they will limit it as needed. I feel better about a dead set NEVER bite policy. However, your mileage may differ.


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