# Remote shock collars. yay or nay?



## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

*Update Remote shock collars. Went on a hike without it!!! Sucess!!!!!!!!!!!*

Has anyone else used them? So far they have worked with her. She really hates the shock!!. The reason were doing this is because we want to start going on hikes with her however its a pain in the butt for her to be walked on the leash. So We want her to be in control so she doesn't have to be on the lease there. Also we are in a meet up group for northern breeds and huskies all their dogs go off leash on hikes! One of the owners recommended getting one so were trying it out. I want it to work so she will come when she gets too far. She knows all the basic commands and she is in an intermediate dog training class. I just want to reinforce them off leash! 
yay or nay for anyone else?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

malamutelove said:


> Has anyone else used them? So far they have worked with her. She really hates the shock!!. The reason were doing this is because we want to start going on hikes with her however its a pain in the butt for her to be walked on the leash. So We want her to be in control so she doesn't have to be on the lease there. Also we are in a meet up group for northern breeds and huskies all their dogs go off leash on hikes! One of the owners recommended getting one so were trying it out. I want it to work so she will come when she gets too far. She knows all the basic commands and she is in an intermediate dog training class. I just want to reinforce them off leash!
> yay or nay for anyone else?


I don't know . . . I just teach my dogs a good recall and a check-in. Don't need a shock collar for that.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> I don't know . . . I just teach my dogs a good recall and a check-in. Don't need a shock collar for that.


Same. My dogs have recall as good or better than dogs I've seen on e-collars including Brody who I've only had 6 months. My dogs come to me because they want to, not because they're afraid of being shocked.

That being said, I understand how difficult training a breed with high prey drive like a northern breed is to be off leash. If you have trained and practiced a very solid recall and choose to use an e-collar as a safety net in case you need to call your dog off a squirrel or something, then I am 100% okay with that. If you are using it as the primary method to teach recall, I highly suggest you reach out to members here for resources on teaching and proofing a recall. What would happen if your dog slipped out the door without the e-collar reciever on? What happens if you're on a hike and the reciever or transmitter's batteries die?


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Prefacing this with the statement that I do NOT recommend ecollars and use positive training techniques (R+ and P-) in my training.

I'm not a fan of using an ecollar, recall training is actually one of the most simple yet easily messed up training skills because of bad training, not because of the breed of the dog. I most especially do not recommend the use of an ecollar without an experienced trainer and a very good understanding of how to use it for training. Just because someone in your group recommends it does not make it a good tool in inexperienced hands.

You don't mention the method of training you are using for the tool you have in hand. Are you using it as P+ or as R-? Do you already have a decent recall in other situations? Using the ecollar to PROOF an already known behaviour is one thing, using it as a zapper because you can't get him to come at all is totally another. You must be very aware of the risks of stimming him at the wrong time and having him misunderstand where the stim is coming from...like maybe from the dog next to him or the person standing nearby...

Also, how old is your dog?

You can teach an amazing recall using the Really Reliable Recall DVD and booklet, positively done. The woman behind this RRR has afghan hounds (sighthounds) who are notorious for prey drive, independence and lack of handler motivation....if she can do it, so can you.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Lindbert said:


> Same. My dogs have recall as good or better than dogs I've seen on e-collars including Brody who I've only had 6 months. My dogs come to me because they want to, not because they're afraid of being shocked.
> 
> That being said, I understand how difficult training a breed with high prey drive like a northern breed is to be off leash. If you have trained and practiced a very solid recall and choose to use an e-collar as a safety net in case you need to call your dog off a squirrel or something, then I am 100% okay with that. If you are using it as the primary method to teach recall, I highly suggest you reach out to members here for resources on teaching and proofing a recall. What would happen if your dog slipped out the door without the e-collar reciever on? What happens if you're on a hike and the reciever or transmitter's batteries die?


Properly trained, not having the e-collar on and having dead batteries are not a factor in e-collar training. Read: if you used the e-collar within a week or two of buying it, you did it wrong. If you consistently set your dog up to fail, you are doing it wrong. Those are factors that hugely contribute to having a collar smart dog. 

E-collars are not a first resort, and are an ethical question of whose benefit you are doing it for. If you are doing it to win titles only you care about, then no, it's not worth it. If you are doing it for the dog's safety, then yes it is acceptable. If you are doing it to allow your dog to enjoy life more fully (being able to hike off leash) then that is also acceptable. 

If all else fails and you are sure it's not a trainer failure, look for a trainer that knows how to use one properly and humanely (as possible, given that it is a electric shock... can't really get humane.)




> You must be very aware of the risks of stimming him at the wrong time and having him misunderstand where the stim is coming from...like maybe from the dog next to him or the person standing nearby...


These are nonexistent issues trained properly. By the time the dog is in a position to be near other dogs or people (read: distractions) it should be crystal clear.



> You can teach an amazing recall using the Really Reliable Recall DVD and booklet, positively done. The woman behind this RRR has afghan hounds (sighthounds) who are notorious for prey drive, independence and lack of handler motivation....if she can do it, so can you.


An unfair statement, to be honest. We do not know the history of their dogs. If she has had control of the dog's environment since puppyhood, there are advantages to that. Dogs with a high history of reinforcement for ignoring commands (as most dogs who were not trained from puppyhood would have) combined with breed traits make it extremely difficult to attain a relaible recall that you can bet your dog's life on.

I trusted Kobe's recall, but I would never have bet his life on it, and therefore, he is 100% untrustworthy off leash (being 90% trustworthy off leash is the same thing as being 100% untrustworthy as far as I am concerned).


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

I don't really have a problem with using an e-collar to proof a recall _with the guidance of a trainer_. To me, recall is so important (life-saving) that I am willing to consider many means of reinforcing it. But I would make sure the recall was very well trained first and you don't need a collar for that.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

RBark, I think if you took the entire post in context I was trying to be supportive but offer alternatives because the implication was that her breed could not be trained to recall. I also was clear that the collar needed to be used CORRECTLY with proper training and supervision so that the improper stim wouldn't occur. The details in the original post were scant and I wanted to be sure she wasn't just slapping the collar on and stimming the dog. I resent that it was called unfair to imply that she could teach it in an alternative matter.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Cracker said:


> RBark, I think if you took the entire post in context I was trying to be supportive but offer alternatives because the implication was that her breed could not be trained to recall. I also was clear that the collar needed to be used CORRECTLY with proper training and supervision so that the improper stim wouldn't occur. The details in the original post were scant and I wanted to be sure she wasn't just slapping the collar on and stimming the dog. I resent that it was called unfair to imply that she could teach it in an alternative matter.


What's unfair is not teaching it in an alternative manner, it's the implication that since one person can do it, she can. That creates the pretext that if she is unable to do it, it is a failing on her part. It's akin to saying that since someone got an *insert advanced title here* then anyone else can do it. It's just setting someone up to fail.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

I am just trying to get an idea on how the OP is using the e-collar for recall because sadly the only way I see it used around here is "slap on dog, call dog, zap dog with continuous stim until dog turns around to come back." Thus why I said it's important to teach the dog recall first, not use the collar to teach the recall. I need to know how the OP wants to use the e-collar before I give it a "yay or nay".


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

Okay here is my update and opinion. I am not slapping the thing on and using it and shocking her to come back.

Alright my parents used to use one on their border collie he now doesn't need in and is able to walk leashless. I watched and learned from an trainer on how to use on him. I just was curious if anyone has tried it too. 

What we are doing is if she doesn't listen the first 3 times then shock her to come. we took it on a hike today and did it leashless by the end of the hike I didn't need it! I would say come once and she came!! I am just using it for just in case basis not to shock her everytime!


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

malamutelove said:


> Okay here is my update and opinion. I am not slapping the thing on and using it and shocking her to come back.
> 
> Alright my parents used to use one on their border collie he now doesn't need in and is able to walk leashless. I watched and learned from an trainer on how to use on him. I just was curious if anyone has tried it too.
> 
> What we are doing is if she doesn't listen the first 3 times then shock her to come. we took it on a hike today and did it leashless by the end of the hike I didn't need it! I would say come once and she came!! I am just using it for just in case basis not to shock her everytime!


That is unfortunately the wrong way to use it, so I vote a nay.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

I vote nay. First, as Rbark mentioned, you are not properly using the shock collar. Also, if she really hates the shock it is obviously on way too high a setting. 

Second, I guess I missed this, but why did you get a malamute (a dog very famously known to not do well off leash) and expect to take her off leash hiking? I believe you did your research in getting your puppy which is great and training will get you very far, however I get the feeling that your trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Don't get me wrong though, you can definitely train a dog of any breed a very solid recall, even to something like sighthounds as Cracker mentioned, but it takes a lot of work and dedication. It's not easy at all. 

I would train loose leash walking and keep a leash on her. Yea, it's very inconvenient, believe me. But to get a dog breed that is reknown for not being reliable off leash and sit there and use a shock collar to teach them to come just doesn't seem fair. Also, shock collars fail, malamutes can run outside their range fairly easily if they start chasing something, you have to have it accessible at all times, etc. A leash, while somewhere near you, is more or less fool proof. I know many malamutes with pack dog titles and their owners use leashes, plain and simple. A few older and better trained get to go off leash after their initial energy is burnt out, but again, they have had a lot of training and 75% of the time are on leash.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

malamutelove said:


> What we are doing is if she doesn't listen the first 3 times then shock her to come.


You should never give a command unless you are close to 100% sure the dog will comply. Your dog is learning to ignore you unless you give a command four times/unless she gets a shock/whatever. Almost any dog trainer will tell you to never repeat a command.

When I do recall training with Casper (who is also a northern breed), I only use the word "come" when I am sure he's going to come (if I have food in my hand that I know he wants). I don't want him to learn that he can ignore me when I use that command. If we're training outside, I have him on a long line so that if he shows no indication of coming when I say "come," I can gently but firmly reel him in. There's no, "Okay, you get three chances, but the fourth time you get punished!" going on. I say "come" _once_ and he comes, willingly or not-so-willingly.

I'm not anti-electric collar, but I think that if people are going to use them, they should work with a trainer and come up with a training plan, making sure they are using the collar in the right way.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

malamutelove said:


> Okay here is my update and opinion. I am not slapping the thing on and using it and shocking her to come back.


It sounds like that's exactly how you're using it. ??? I would strongly recommend looking into a non-punishment means of training a recall. Or finding a trainer with e-collar experience.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

> Also, if she really hates the shock it is obviously on way too high a setting.


It might be an argument of semantics, but for clarification, the dog always hates the shock. That is why it works. They avoid it because it causes pain. But the vast majority of people do have it set way too high.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

RBark said:


> It might be an argument of semantics, but for clarification, the dog always hates the shock. That is why it works. They avoid it because it causes pain. But the vast majority of people do have it set way too high.


I understand that. I was referring to her comment that "She really hates the shock!!". To me, this sounds like it is more than an annoyance and is causing some sort of serious reaction (yelping, jumping up, etc.) Thus, my comment. I jumped the gun a little bit and made an assumption that the setting is too high, as I agree, most people have it way too high. Thank you for clarifying further though.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I don't care how wonderful of a trainer a person is, there is no such thing as a 100% recall. There are far too many variables out there and your dog has not met all of them. How they will react in each is as unpredictable as how we would react in a situation we have never been in. That said, I agree that the OP needs much much more help in training this dog with or without the collar. Find a good trainer to teach you how to properly use the collar. I am not against their use if used correctly. Even with the collar there are dogs who will get so excited about something they will take the zap and continue on. I have one such dog at home now. He is very easy going, comes 99.9% of the time regardless but when he sets his mind that he IS going to do something, the e-collar would slow him down, but not stop him right away.

I have also used the collar on myself to see how bad they are. For me, I want to know what I am putting my dog through. The goal is not to hurt your dog, obviously. The setting needs to be appropriate for the individual dog. If the dog is jumping, or yelping it is way to high. The collar is supposed to just be a reminder to reinforce an already ingrained command. 

Example: My mothers car has something with it that each time I would turn to close the door, I would get zapped. Just a little static electric zap. It doesn't really hurt, but it is unpleasant. After a few times, it got to the point that I would NOT want to touch that door because I knew it would zap me. It seems silly that such a little thing can be so effective but that it is. The collar is the same, it shouldn't be set to HURT, but it is unpleasant enough to remind the dog to either NOT do something or to DO something NOW.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I didnt read all the responses, and I've never used one, but have you ever seen the video on America's Funny home videos where a guy put an ecollar on his neck and his friends shocked him? That guy almost pooped his pants. He was screaming.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Labmom4 said:


> I didnt read all the responses, and I've never used one, but have you ever seen the video on America's Funny home videos where a guy put an ecollar on his neck and his friends shocked him? That guy almost pooped his pants. He was screaming.


 If it's the same one I saw, he was a big tattooed guy, too. You'd think it wouldn't bother him. 

I do think that shock collars can be used properly, and have their proper uses (I do object to how high they go; I don't see any reason for that kind of thing), but I agree that most people use them wrong. Know how many stray dogs have ended up on my uncle's farm wearing a shock collar? That's what happens when they're used wrong--the dog freaks out and just keeps running until he's out of shock range.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Willowy said:


> If it's the same one I saw, he was a big tattooed guy, too. You'd think it wouldn't bother him.
> 
> I do think that shock collars can be used properly, and have their proper uses (I do object to how high they go; I don't see any reason for that kind of thing), but I agree that most people use them wrong. Know how many stray dogs have ended up on my uncle's farm wearing a shock collar? That's what happens when they're used wrong--the dog freaks out and just keeps running until he's out of shock range.


The reason for the high levels the e-collar goes is not for recall training. Most Learning Theory based trainers agree with one thing in common- the biggest issue in training behavior with aversives is that most people have the aversive *too low*. Note that this comes from people like Jean Donaldson and Patricia McConnell. 

The reason for this many dogs build up a tolerance to the pain. An example cited was a couple trying to teach their pit bull to stay off the horses (life threatening to the dog) and never could do it. After a lot of work, they resorted to a e collar (under guidance of, i think, McConnell) and it was set on the highest setting. It was painful to watch, but it took only two times to completely eradicate the behavior of chasing horses as opposed to months of using a milder aversive repeatedly.

The high setting is there for a reason, and there are benefits for doing so. The average owner and the average dog never has a reason to do so, granted, but I'm just making the point. As I said before, the only times I advocate aversive is when the alternative is life threatening to the dog (and all other methods have been exhausted). Teaching a dog to sit, for example, using an e-collar is silly. Doing a ear pinch for retrieves is silly and pointless. Etc.


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## malamutelove (Dec 6, 2010)

Hello everyone thank you for your opinions it really helped me today!!! We went on a hike today and it was amazing!! We went without a leash or e-collar!! She had a very very very good recall. She listened to me on the first command everything. I guess everyone was right a good recall and she didn't need it!! Thank you so much for your help everyone I was so happy of the results! Tomorrow we will try it again!


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Keep practicing and reinforcing the behaviors you want, and she will pick it up fine! If that's her in your picture, she's not only smart, she's adorable too!


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

The reason for the high levels the e-collar goes is not for recall training. Most Learning Theory based trainers agree with one thing in common- the biggest issue in training behavior with aversives is that most people have the aversive *too low*. Note that this comes from people like Jean Donaldson and Patricia McConnell.>>>>>

Bull. 

E-collar training should be used at the lowest levels the dog feels. the dog should be guided to you when the commant is given with stim being stopped when the dog starts to you. (escape/avoidence training) the higher levels are for higher levels of distraction.

Note: Jean Donaldson and Patricia McConnell are far from recognized experts on e-collar training. The training you describe as pos punishment is outdated in most instances of early training.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

jiml said:


> The reason for the high levels the e-collar goes is not for recall training. Most Learning Theory based trainers agree with one thing in common- the biggest issue in training behavior with aversives is that most people have the aversive *too low*. Note that this comes from people like Jean Donaldson and Patricia McConnell.>>>>>
> 
> Bull.
> 
> ...


Bull.

First, read what I said. I am not talking about recall training (or any other basic training with an e-collar). When you are able to comprehend that, re-read my statement. 

Recognized experts on e-collar training are those that use it humanely and only when necessary.


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

i apologize. I only read the first paragraph, i guess.

I will say that I personally would never have a dog off leash that was not w an ecollar, even if I never had to use it. I am a bit paranoid about my dog running off (which has never happened. I have know some that would never let their well trained dog off leash w out a GPS. When it comes to this sometimes a level of paranoia is involved that goes beyond dog reliability.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Kobe has never failed a recall in 3 years, with or without a e-collar. The times I recalled him without a e-collar was if he bolted out the door, etc. Otherwise it is always on him, and I will never trust him without a e-collar on. The risks are just far too high.

Priscilla, on the other hand, had a way of making it so that I had absolute faith in her recall. Yes, no such thing as 100% recall, but it was enough that I could not imagine what the 1% could possibly be. I could call her off anything (have done horses, deer, birds, rats, snakes, ferrets, cats, other dogs, and a dozen other animals) and for the most part, even if she saw them, she showed no interest at all in them. I found no need to use a e-collar with her. I had never once had to use her emergency recall.

Point is, I think it varies dog to dog. If your dog does not reassure your paranoia, then it's probably there for good reason.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm having similar probs with Jo. She is a acd mix rescue that showed up at the shelter at around 6 wks old with her 3 brothers so they don't know what kind of life she had before arriving at the shelter. 

She is a very soft dog & is learning recall & commands very nicely & will even recall out of a chase (with the mere utterance of a leave it command followed by a recall command). The prob we have is when she thinks she is in trouble... Like when she wonders off.i don't know id its my vibe with her being a softie or what. I have tried to deture that with praise & treats & it is working but she still does it... Any advice?


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## backerbabe (Mar 6, 2011)

I can't imagine using such a thing. It is possible to teach a foolproof recall & a check in. I keep Rhodesian Ridgebacks- can you imaging the prey drive of a dog bred to hunt lions? Yet I can reliably call them off of bunnies & the like even once they're on the run. Positive reinforcement, setting them up so it's hard to do wrong & easy to do right, the difference between "where are you at" & "come" are also important. A shock collar might give you immediate results, but I'm willing to put in the time or keep my dogs on a leash. There is an old book by a fellow named Koehler w/ a chapter on recall, using something he called a throw chain. That might be a good training method for a hard-head, I can't say because my 'backers, though independent have never needed anything more than positive reinforcement. Good Luck


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## dobedvm (Nov 1, 2010)

I will preface this by saying that with the description of how the OP is using the collar, no, I don't recommend it - because used improperly these collars are (just like ANY tool), bad. 

That being said, yes, EVERY one of my dogs has currently worked on, or is still working with an electronic collar. 

First and foremost, I will absolutely never say that my dogs training is better than what makes my dog a dog, and their own free will. I purposefully choose willfull, strong-minded, high drive dogs and many of them have pretty low biddability. I put years into training them and title them pretty highly - but that doesn't mean that I am foolish enough to think that if push comes to shove, one day they may ignore a command. So because of that, my dogs are NEVER outside the confines of a fence without a collar on them - that is a safety issue. No hikes, no swims, NOTHING - unless a collar is on. 

And yes, I also use a collar for some dogs for obedience purposes as well. Again, this is a highly trained dog, competing in utility (just got our second leg today!), ranked nationally 5 times, training for going on 4 years now - and the sheer perfect timing and low level of UNEMOTIONAL correction that this collar provides me when working at a distance (since the hardest part of utility is that the dog works away from you), its a great tool when used properly. 

My dogs are all clicker trained, extremely operant. I consider the collar hand in hand with my clicker - both require and work best with exquisite timing, allow me to train at a distance and remove me from the picture, and both require no emotional input from me at all - its yes or no, without guilt, excitement, or anger. its black and white, and thats awesome IMO. i dont use either of them for every dog or every behavior - but if its appropriate i am not going to NOT use a tool i have just because of a stigma OTHERS have. 

im confused how using a throw chain is ok, but a collar isn't?


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## backerbabe (Mar 6, 2011)

I never meant to offend you. I won't use a throw chain either. I was just trying to offer another option. My dogs ride out in National Forest w/ my horses, so really neither option is feasible in my world. My hands are full of TB horse. I can't be carrying devices. Since the 'backers will even drop the chase when called, the methods I've employed have done everything I have ever wanted. However, they are not off leash in/around vehicular traffic. If my recall ever were to fail, I won't be chancing it happening near a road. I do have a diabolical streak, too. As adolescents, I have had a dog come untrained on a hike & fail to respond. I only called once. Then I climbed a tree & hid. After a short time, the dog came looking for me. I watched that worried youngster run back & forth a time or two before I came down & made my presence known. I've never had to employ that technique more than once ever on any dog. They truly don't want to lose me, no matter what.
My strong aversion to shock collars comes from the fact that when I was undergoing physical therapy I was unable to tolerate the e-stim machine at all. The PT was sure it was all in my head, put the little electric discs on me, told me it was on the lowest setting. I said ok I can take this. Then he turned it on. All bets were off. In this situation, the electrical impulses were meant to facilitate healing. I can't even imagine electrical shock as a correction. That being said, we all get to make our own choices. What is right for me & mine may not be right for you & yours. I guess that's why Baskin & Robbins makes 31 flavors. As far as your position on the value of perfect timing, I couldn't agree more. Whatever training methods you choose, timing IS everything. Also, congratulations. That's some pretty impressive "alphabet soup" those dogs have earned.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

backerbabe said:


> My strong aversion to shock collars comes from the fact that when I was undergoing physical therapy I was unable to tolerate the e-stim machine at all. The PT was sure it was all in my head, put the little electric discs on me, told me it was on the lowest setting. I said ok I can take this. Then he turned it on. All bets were off. In this situation, the electrical impulses were meant to facilitate healing. I can't even imagine electrical shock as a correction. That being said, we all get to make our own choices. What is right for me & mine may not be right for you & yours. I guess that's why Baskin & Robbins makes 31 flavors. As far as your position on the value of perfect timing, I couldn't agree more. Whatever training methods you choose, timing IS everything. Also, congratulations. That's some pretty impressive "alphabet soup" those dogs have earned.


A lot of people who are pro-ecollar claim it is very much like a TENS unit. The thing is, individual responses to electric current are variable. While some people may think it feels good, other people may find it highly aversive. I suspect it is the same with dogs, except that they don't understand why it is happening, and they don't have words to tell us how they experience it.


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## Charis (Jul 12, 2009)

In the proper circumstances I think the collar is permissible (life threatening behaviors as said before). As a amateur dog trainer I would never use one (doesn't mean other people can't) because I am not trained to properly use one. I use positive training because as an amateur incorrect timing is much easier to correct and I do not run the risk of accidently injuring or incorrectly training the dog by a mistake on my part. An e-collar has it's place but the average household probably isn't that place. I think all too often they are seen as a "quick-fix" by the average (not all) dog owner to correct a behavior they dislike instead of spending the time to train the dog. 
As for the Nordic breed side of things:
Misty will never go leash less out of an enclosure or home. Her prey drive is too high and I am not properly trained on e-collar use to use one as back up. I am perfectly content with that as in our area there are natural (rattle snakes, poisonous frogs, mean cats, stray dogs, fire ants) and man-made hazards (rail road tracks, busy streets, anti-freeze). My personal preference is my dog close and safe but I can very easily see how it is fun to have your dog off leash as well.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Willowy said:


> If it's the same one I saw, he was a big tattooed guy, too. You'd think it wouldn't bother him.
> 
> .


this has nothing to do with dogs but what does someone being tattooed have to do with not being able to handle a shock of an e-collar? I'm moderately tattooed, certainly not into pain and I don't handle some pain very well either. 
Carry on, just had to throw that out there.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

InkedMarie said:


> this has nothing to do with dogs but what does someone being tattooed have to do with not being able to handle a shock of an e-collar? I'm moderately tattooed, certainly not into pain and I don't handle some pain very well either.
> Carry on, just had to throw that out there.


Oh, hmm, I was told that getting a tattoo feels like an electrical shock. . .it sort of seemed relevant.


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

A lot of people who are pro-ecollar claim it is very much like a TENS unit. The thing is, individual responses to electric current are variable. While some people may think it feels good, other people may find it highly aversive. I suspect it is the same with dogs, except that they don't understand why it is happening, and they don't have words to tell us how they experience it.>>>>

you do know E-stim is used in Physical therapy with DOGS also?


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Willowy said:


> Oh, hmm, I was told that getting a tattoo feels like an electrical shock. . .it sort of seemed relevant.


well, I have twenty something tattoos, closer to 30, it's a cat scratch feeling sometimes, certainly not an electrical shock!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Oh, hmm, I was told that getting a tattoo feels like an electrical shock. . .it sort of seemed relevant.


No. It feels like getting a tattoo.


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## dobedvm (Nov 1, 2010)

and my tattoos have hurt more than any shock i took from any collar


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