# dog ran to end of tie out, then flipped over when he yanked



## dogclass (Feb 16, 2011)

Hi,
I'm sure this happens to a few others too...

This is the first summer with my rescue dog (1 year old). I don't think he's been on a tie-out much before. Anyways, we were watching him outside while he was on the tie out, then he saw a bird and ran after it.

When he came to the end of the leash, he had so much momentum that the did a flip. He got up, looked around sheepishly, and then came over to us. He didn't act hurt.

Should I be concerned? How can I tell if he did hurt himeself? He's got so much fur around the neck that I can't get a good look at the skin under it.

He seldom barks, so it's hard to tell if he hurt his throat. He's 38 lbs, collie mix.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

I would never have a dog on a tie out in a collar he needs a harness.


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

My dog has done something similar, LOL. We had to put him on a tie-out cord b/c he learned how to climb the fence and the first day on it he pulled a number like that and rolled himself. Hasn't happened since, though he's not on it very often.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

katielou said:


> I would never have a dog on a tie out in a collar he needs a harness.


I agree. Definitely get him on a harness when he's tied out, having him attached to a collar like that can do some damage, especially if you aren't supervising the entire time.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

I've seen waaay too many dogs come into our neurosurgery service because they did exactly what has been described here. They run after a bird, squirrel, rabbit, whatever... and end up causing damage to their spinal cord - some have never fully recovered. IMO it is very negligent to leave a tie out if it's connected to a collar.


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## Adventure (Apr 4, 2011)

How long was the tether? I, personally, wouldn’t give over 10ft of chain/cable. 10ft of cable with 360 degree access is about 314 square feet of area for the dog. (I think? My math skills haven’t been polished up in awhile)

I’ve never had an accident while training our dogs to the chain or keeping the dogs outside on the chain. The key is training your dog to the tether and the dog knowing the boundaries and not having anything for the dog to catch themselves on. In the beginning we use flags or cones to show a boundary for the dogs until they understand.

I would never use a harness, I wouldn’t feel safe with my dogs in a harness. I just picture my dogs contorting themselves out of the harness and going over/under our fence to kill the neighbor’s cats/dogs. Probably not a problem for everyone, but one of my greatest fears is our dogs getting loose and attacking small animals or each other.


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## lisak_87 (Mar 23, 2011)

I'd say it's no big deal that it happened once, but get a harness for the next time


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## MusherChic (Nov 6, 2010)

I would say leave the collar. He learned that it didn't work the first time (and it probably hurt too) so I doubt he will try it again. 
After a while he will get used to the tie out and will know how to handle it properly. 

ETA: Harnesses IMO are too easy to slip out of. Unless you have a calm dog which doesn't have a strong desire to run and chase after things. I have never ever felt comfortable using a harnesses on my dogs to tie them out with. But thats just me.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

A properly chosen and fitted harness is still safer than a collar, even if the dog does manage to somehow escape the harness. The potential for spinal injury, choking and strangulation are higher than the chance the pup might slip his harness and get loose. 
As for tie outs. IMO they should be used very carefully and that the dogs should not be left out on them for extended periods of time (sled dogs exempt from pet dogs). In some states chaining or tethering your dog is illegal and many frustrated/aggressive dogs are born out of being tied out without proper socialization, exercise and training. It can create barrier frustration.


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## Adventure (Apr 4, 2011)

The point of a tether/tie-out/chain set-up is to contain the animal. So putting a dog in a harness that he can escape and on a tether is like having a dog that can climb a kennel fence and not putting a top on it. What’s even the point?

IMO, the risk of a dog getting off his chain and escaping to get hit by a car, lost in the woods, attack another domestic animal, or be attacked by another animal (including humans) is higher than the risk of a proper chain set-up.

Want to minimalize your risk of strangulation/choking, use a proper collar without having anything the dog can get hung up in the tethering area.
Want to minimalize your risk of spinal injury, use a shorter tether. A dog on a 25ft tether has, at most, 50ft to pick up speed and then hit the end of a chain. A dog on a 10ft tether has, at most, 20ft to pick up speed and then hit the end of a chain. IMO using a thicker collar also helps spread the shock of an impact over a greater area of the neck, no idea if this is true just my opinion.

I’m glad I still live in a county that allows me the right to choose how to best and safely contain my own animals. Many frustrated/aggressive dogs are born out of owner negligence. Dog runs and kennels can create barrier frustration as well.


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## dogclass (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. We exercise him quite a bit, and gets lots of love and attention. We're not using the tie-out as an alternative to walking and running the dog. But, sometimes it's nice to sit and read outside, and not have to fuss over the dog.

Any tricks to teach a dog not to run to the end of a leash? I like the cone idea.


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## Puddin's Training Tips (Apr 9, 2011)

Mr. V said:


> I've seen waaay too many dogs come into our neurosurgery service because they did exactly what has been described here. They run after a bird, squirrel, rabbit, whatever... and end up causing damage to their spinal cord - some have never fully recovered. IMO it is very negligent to leave a tie out if it's connected to a collar.


Mr V. Thanks so much for your post. I'm going to mention it in my blog. There are so many reasons to NOT tether. It's great to hear real experience about this issue.



Cracker said:


> It can create barrier frustration.


Yes. thanks for posting. Many studies show how and why long term tethering can actually cause aggression


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Not sure about others but I know quite a few dogs who can really get the wheels turning in less than 20 ft. To each his own I guess - at least everyone who reads this topic can't claim ignorance if they come home to find a disaster on the end of a tether.


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## Puddin's Training Tips (Apr 9, 2011)

dogclass said:


> Hi,
> rescue dog (1 year old).


Thanks so much for choosing rescue



> Should I be concerned?


It's great that you ask that question. I think it's best to go ahead and take him to the vet. I have a dog who is very stoic. It's really hard to tell when he is in pain. Also, if you have injured yourself, you might remember that sometimes the pain sets in 1 or 2 days later. Even if his neck isn't scratched or scraped, he could have gotten some type of muscular injury. It's much better to be safe than sorry. If money is an issue, click http://www.stubbypuddin.com/2011/03/things-that-are-less-important-than.html



Maggie Girl said:


> My dog has done something similar, LOL. .


This makes me very sad. A dog yanking himself by the neck is nothing to LOL about. It's really had to watch. And like Mr V said. Some dogs sustained injuries so severe that they never recover.

Please see my video below for safe outdoor pets. Info for jumpers starts at about the 2:50 time mark








dogclass said:


> Any tricks to teach a dog not to run to the end of a leash? I like the cone idea.


Yes, great idea to try to prevent this in the future. Even if he wasn't hurt this time, continuous yanking like that will certainly cause major damage.
You can perimeter or barrier train you dog. It will take some time so in the meantime you will have to manage the behavior be keeping an eagle eye out - not only on your dog but you have to be on the lookout for any animals that will get your dog going. You probably will NOT be able to read since you have to vigilant

Be careful about finding stuff on the internet about perimeter training. A lot of it is aversive and can hurt your relationship with your dog.

See below for info on perimeter training:

I did found this for keeping dogs out of the pool. http://www.ehow.com/how_5982062_train-dogs-not-go-pools.html 

I believe it could be extrapolated to any other area like a fence or the edge of unfenced yard or the end of your dog's chain.
You could post some stakes a couple of feet back from the end of his chain just as a reference point for training. 
Walk your dog up to the stakes and walk the perimeter using body blocking to keep the dog away from the stakes and reward generously when the dog complies. Do this a few times a day and keep the sessions short - 10 to 15 minutes at most. 

The main thing about body blocking is that is should be very subtle and as soon as the dog responds to the body block, the human should back off. Otherwise it could seem like you are threatening your dog. 

Author, Behavorist Patricia McConnell has some excellent insight on managing space using body blocking- a great non-aversive way to gain compliance. http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/teach-stay-with-body-blocks

More on perimeter training:
http://www.helium.com/items/1485164-how-to-train-a-dog-to-stay-in-an-unfenced-yard

http://books.google.com/books?id=j7...#v=onepage&q=perimeter train your dog&f=false

Much easier than perimeter training would be a safe fence for your dog. If the cost is prohibitive, you can get the dog a decent kennel run for less than 200 dollars - that would be sufficient if you just want it for brief outdoor times. You could even sit inside the kennel with him. And you could put a top on it if he is a jumper.

If your dog isn't much of a jumper, you could just put together some light weight corralling or exercise pens. See the video below. I tied together 3 or 4 pens for some small dogs to play in.


I don't know if you have your own yard or if you are in an apartment or something. The play pens are lightweight and can be easily set up and taken down. I have used them at a public park down the street from my house.

If you live with an escape artist, see this link for info: https://docs.google.com/a/stubbypuddin.com/View?id=ddtbr7bw_783f77z5sc3

Also, I just posted this video in this thread - safe outdoor pets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF6riFzuLqE
Here is video on redundant fencing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxH9ILoVo7o

If money is an issue for any of the above, see: http://www.stubbypuddin.com/2011/03/things-that-are-less-important-than.html


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Adventure said:


> The point of a tether/tie-out/chain set-up is to contain the animal. So putting a dog in a harness that he can escape and on a tether is like having a dog that can climb a kennel fence and not putting a top on it. What’s even the point?


I did say a PROPERLY fitting harness. Nothing is ever 100 percent.



> IMO, the risk of a dog getting off his chain and escaping to get hit by a car, lost in the woods, attack another domestic animal, or be attacked by another animal (including humans) is higher than the risk of a proper chain set-up.


Notice I didn't say never to tie your dog out, I said Properly used and not to leave the dog for long periods of time. I do not leave dogs unsupervised outside the same way I wouldn't let toddlers unsupervised outside. Since the OP was not clear on the actual use of the tie out I wanted to cover that aspect...dogs left tied out for long periods, or left behind fences for long periods, or kennelled for long periods without seeing to their other needs contributes to behaviour issues.


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## MusherChic (Nov 6, 2010)

> Want to minimalize your risk of strangulation/choking, use a proper collar without having anything the dog can get hung up in the tethering area.
> Want to minimalize your risk of spinal injury, use a shorter tether. A dog on a 25ft tether has, at most, 50ft to pick up speed and then hit the end of a chain. A dog on a 10ft tether has, at most, 20ft to pick up speed and then hit the end of a chain. IMO using a thicker collar also helps spread the shock of an impact over a greater area of the neck, no idea if this is true just my opinion.
> 
> I’m glad I still live in a county that allows me the right to choose how to best and safely contain my own animals. *Many frustrated/aggressive dogs are born out of owner negligence*. Dog runs and kennels can create barrier frustration as well.


I say DF needs a 'Like' button......


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## Maggie Girl (Feb 27, 2011)

Puddin's Training Tips said:


> This makes me very sad. A dog yanking himself by the neck is nothing to LOL about. It's really had to watch. And like Mr V said. Some dogs sustained injuries so severe that they never recover.


Good Lord... keep your judgment for someone else, I sure don't need it. My dog wasn't in a full run, it was the first time he'd EVER been on his tie out, which he is on maybe 30 minutes_ a week_, if that long. We do have a fenced yard and he's normally in it when he's outside to play. We got the tie out to use in the fence if he's outdoors unattended (which is rare) as we have not yet fixed the spot on the fence that he learned he could climb up. He did _not_ hurt himself when rolled over at the end of the cord. His neck was/is fine; he wasn't fully running. If this were something that happened over and over and over, yes I would be concerned and would not even allow him on the cord. It happened once. I love my dog and if I even thought for a second that he hurt himself I would never find amusement in it. Do you think we put lawn chairs up, invited the neighbors over, and bring out a cooler of beer to sit and watch the dog run and choke himself on a tie out cord while laughing hysterically? No, he simply "found the end" of the tie out when he came to an abrupt halt and rolled over. It was probably less of an "impact" on his neck than when he does the _same exact thing_ on his leash when he tries to dart for a rabbit (and yes, trying to work on that issue too, before you get 'sad' that he pulls on his leash sometimes). My "LOL" wasn't literal, I didn't actually laugh out loud at him when it happened. He had a vet checkup/shots the next week and was given a clean bill of health. Go be sad for someone else and get off my case.

*I liken the "LOL" to the same way I can now look back at the memory of my brother being hit by an inner tube of girls while sledding when we were kids. Their tube hit him, he did an actual flip in the air and landed in the snow before he even knew what happened.... and yes, he _could have_ been seriously injured. But he wasn't and we now laugh about it to this day. I would never laugh at anyone, human or canine, for getting hurt. The implication that I laughed at my dog for potentially being hurt really irritates me and I don't appreciate it.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Puddin's Training Tips said:


> Mr V. Thanks so much for your post. I'm going to mention it in my blog. There are so many reasons to NOT tether. It's great to hear real experience about this issue.


You're welcome. One dog in particular happened to be my brother's doberman. If you do a quick little search on Wobbler's disease (instability in the vertebrae of the neck) you'll find that dobermans are the poster child for this condition (although its certainly not limited to this breed at all). His dog happended to be out on a tether that was attached to his choke collar. His wife came home to him laying in the yard, unable to stand up. Well, they drove all night to get him here to my vet school and we admitted him into our ICU and neuro ward for care. After about $1500 in diagnostics, we found on his CT scan that he had damaged his spinal cord and he was nearly paralyzed. By some unexplained miracle, he was able to stand 2 days later and was able to walk (with a little sway) the day after that. He was lucky in that he didn't ahve to have emergency surgery. We never would have guessed he was a wobbler as he showed no clinical signs at all before that day.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

Mr. V said:


> You're welcome. One dog in particular happened to be my brother's doberman. If you do a quick little search on Wobbler's disease (instability in the vertebrae of the neck) you'll find that dobermans are the poster child for this condition (although its certainly not limited to this breed at all). His dog happended to be out on a tether that was attached to his choke collar. His wife came home to him laying in the yard, unable to stand up. Well, they drove all night to get him here to my vet school and we admitted him into our ICU and neuro ward for care. After about $1500 in diagnostics, we found on his CT scan that he had damaged his spinal cord and he was nearly paralyzed. By some unexplained miracle, he was able to stand 2 days later and was able to walk (with a little sway) the day after that. He was lucky in that he didn't ahve to have emergency surgery. We never would have guessed he was a wobbler as he showed no clinical signs at all before that day.


I am definitely on the harness side, I use a harness for my dog at all times. The only use for her collar is where her tags are kept, she has a comfortable harness on whenever she is out for a walk, or tethered outside (which isn't very often at the moment). Tying your dog to a collar can do more than just an accident to the spine, so many things could happen, I would never put my dog at risk for strangulation. And the fact that you have seen first hand what it can do to a dog makes it all the more reason to educate proper pet care!


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

yea no kiddin! I would have given my bro a smack upside his head if I'd known he was doing that. But, you know what they say about hindsight...


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