# How do I train my dog to be... well, amazing?



## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

I have a 14 1/2 wk old Purebred German Shepherd female pup. 

I want her to be really I guess.. well disciplined. 

For example, I want her to give me the focus and have the obedience that you see with say perhaps a police dog, or a border collie crouched waiting for his master to throw the frisbee. 

I know she's too young to expect all of that from her now. But I want to start working towards that. 

I live in the middle of nowhere 30 mins away from the nearest dog training place. With my two young children I don't have the time to commit 2 hours to dog training in a single day, nor do I really have the money to pay someone right now.

I've done a lot with her on my own, using positive reward and quick corrections for mistakes she makes so she knows what she's done wrong. She has a problem with urinating every time she is excited, afraid or submitting. 

She knows how to sit, stay and walk on a leash well.
She knows come to some extent, however her desire to come to me, or continue with whatever she is playing with at the time determines whether she wants to obey that command sometimes. (yesterday she found something dead in the woods, and completely ignored our calls to her and dissapeared into the brush with her findings)

She looks at me when I am training her pretty intensely. She is very eager to please. 
Sometimes she loses focus however, and that is something I would like to correct. If we are in public, getting her to sit is a challenge, she is very focused on whatever she is looking at in the distance that she doesn't even appear to hear my sometimes. I want her to be focusing on me at all times if I give her a command. If I want her to sit when a child passes by, I want her to Sit and STAY SITTING. Not sit, and then stand up when the child gets really close. 
*I guess my question is how can I get her to really focus on me more intently*, especially when we are in public. I do carry treats with me, and I try to lure her back onto me with the treats, but usually she ignores them if she really wants the people walking by to pet her. She doesn't pull when people, dogs, animals, critters walk by at least. She does just stand with me and she doesn't usually bark at other dogs. She's only barked and pulled towards two large dogs once, any other dogs she ignores, for some reason she really didn't like these two dogs though. 
*Am I expecting too much out of her at this age? What sort of expectations should I follow for her age? *
I just want to set her on the right path towards success and I am unsure as to what training I should be starting her with.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Do you teach attention as a trained behavior? It's really the foundation for everything else you are wanting. Remember that you have a baby puppy, and it's going to take time to get the same kind of attention in public as you can get in the house. When you go to a more challenging environment you need to up the level (and possibly value) of your reinforcement. But this does NOT mean waving treats under her nose when she is distracted. (Ie - rewarding the behavior you DON'T like) Take baby steps. If she gets it wrong, instead of "correcting" (I hate that term), go back and figure out where you asked too much or were unclear. It's not easy for a dog to be at the same time working to get reward and worrying about getting it wrong. Recognize that you probably think a behavior is really trained before it is. Training until response to the cue is almost automatic is key. Create a habit. Create a desire for the dog to get to respond to the cue. For my dogs, the cue means the bar is open. You now have the opportunity to earn treats. I can't get that attitude if I spend a lot of time telling the dog he's wrong. So while my dogs might be interrupted from doing something dangerous, I don't interrupt them from trying to get it right. If there's something going on more exciting than our training, I will manage that situation rather than shoot myself in the foot by asking for something the dog is, at that point, unable to give me. When you are training, take advantage of environmental rewards. If greeting people is more exciting than getting treats, use greeting people as the reward. (People will only pay attention to you when you are sitting - otherwise they go away)


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Please don't correct a baby dog. It's unnecessary and counterproductive. You're already seeing the fallout in submissive peeing, it gets worse from here.

Look, I get wanting one of those awesome oh-so-obedient dogs. I do. Unfortunately, that's not something you can have at 14.5 weeks. That is the result of lots of hard work and time, and maturity on the part of the dog. You can no more force that with corrections than you can make a person love you by buying them gifts.

In order to consider a command learned, the dog needs to have performed that command successfully 300 times (at least) in varying places with varying distractions. Many people think that just because their dog came when called a few times in the living room, they totally know it and should be punished for not following through. So they figure what that dog needs is corrections, which just damages their relationship, confuses the dog and gets in the way of learning.

Please read Culture Clash. It's a great book and it will really help you understand your dog and her needs.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Oh gosh, I didn't realize how awful that sentence "corrections when she makes mistakes" actually came out when I typed it. This is NOT what I meant at all! In correcting I mean just ignoring the bad behaviour in the correct circumstance, and simply rewarding and lavishing her with praise when she does something good! ie: Jumping up, turn away, ignore until all paws are on the ground. I know expecting her to be amazing at 14.5 weeks is waaay too much. I only wanted to set her up onto the right path. I know trying to correct a bad behavior is harder than just not allowing it to become a habit at the start. ie: you're not allowed on the carpet ever rather than. Well you're allowed right now because you're cute and small, but when you're older you're suddenly not allowed. 

Akira does not pee with me or the children, she does pee when strangers reach out to pet her. I've been trying to teach her that strangers are not to be afraid of by giving new people treats to give her so that she will think, oh well.. when a person approaches my mommy and I at the door, it's okay and this new person is pretty cool. 

Akira and I are getting along really well, she's a total mama's girl. Her father on the other hand is causing problems with her self esteem, and no matter how much I beg and plea for his patience in this tender matter, he will not listen. Akira is terrified of him, if my husband so much as looks at her, she submissively pees even if she's across the room. It's his fault, he is physical with her when she does something wrong, and he does it at an inappropriate time, so the poor thing doesn't even have a clue why this big scary man is scolding her. 

ie: My hubby wants the kids to like the dog, right now they are sort of afraid of her because she has jumped up onto them a few times and scratched them up. This again, however is my husbands fault. He puts her into a situation where she is going to fail and then scolds her for failing. We get back from karate with the kids, the dog has been in her crate for 2 hours. We get home, and hubby decides he wants all of us to go play with the dog so the kids will like her.. now, at this point, I start trying to explain to him "she's been in her cage, she's going to be wound up and she is going to jump on everyone" can you at least let me get her out of her cage and calm her down a bit before you bring the kids in?" Now, while I do go down and do the initial "OMG I THOUGHT YOU WERE NEVER COMING HOME I'M SO HAPPY PLEASE HOLD ME OMG!" greeting from my dog. I open the cage, and point towards the door and say "outside" as I don't want her to pee. She happily trots along side me to the door, once we're outside, she may make an attempt to jump up, I turn and ignore until she is sitting and then I greet her. At that point, hubby brings the kids out. The kids grab her toys and they start running around and taunting the dog. Of course, what does she want to do? Run with them and PLAY. She's been in her crate for 2 hours and she needs to get out that energy. So she runs after the kids, and jump up on them both. At which point my hubby goes over, grabs her by the scruff, points at the kids and says "NO" I really don't feel like this is productive at all. It's unfair to expect a 14.5 week old puppy not to want to play when she gets out of her cage with two kids running around holding her toys. It's like bringing a 4 year old to the park and telling him he's not allowed to play with the other children and that he can only sit on the bench and watch. When my husband is at work and it's just with me the kids and the dog. Every morning we have our breakfast, get dressed and then take the dog for a walk on the nature trail by our house. I walk her first for a bit, then I let her off leash to burn off all that energy. Once she's pretty sonked, THEN I will put the leash on her and let the kids "walk" her. Really all their doing is holding the leash while she walks along side us, and I make them fix the leash when she gets it under her belly. The kids feel like they're doing something important. After that, we will go home, cool off, and then go play with the puppy. Now, this play is us in a large empty room. Akira is tired so she plays gently and slowly. She will quietly follow the kids around and gently take her toys from their little hands. She will lay on the ground and they will both go over and rub all over her. This way, the kids are interacting with the dog, they're all building a relationship, and no one is getting scared or hurt. THIS is how I think interactions should go until our pup matures enough to know the little ones are easy to knock down and hurt. If only my husband understood this...

My hubby has told me he's "Tired of my dog psychology bullshit" and he is just going to play with the dog the way he's done his whole life with his other dogs. That's great, and I get that it may have worked for your dominant tough pups, but Akira was the softy of the litter and she needs a lot of calm, patience and reassurance that she is doing a great job. I am constantly reassuring her and praising her when she does well. Like I said, she and I have a great relationship, but I'm afraid my husband is only destroying any progress I've made with her when he scolds her. 

Yesterday remember how she ran into the woods with a piece of something dead and ignored our calls to come to us? When he finally caught Akira (Akira wouldn't even let either of us catch her, and it was only because of my 5 year old holding her collar that we managed to grab her) my hubby literally picked her up by her scruff, held her at his eye level and yelled at her as if she understood a word he was saying. Now, while she did then follow him after that like a good dog and came whens he was called.. I fully believe that the punishment was inappropriate and not understood by Akira. 

I'm a horse trainer in the real world, and while I have limited knowledge on dog psychology, I've learned that similar equine training techniques work with dogs as well. Patience, understanding, and reward. I think the #1 foundation for training any animal is to have a deep understand of the way they think and interpret things. 

I've order that book you suggested Amaryllis, thank you. 

Does anyone have a suggestion for what I should do with Akira now? I do continue to do our sit, stay, and walk on a leash without pulling every day for short periods of times. Should I be integrating some other techniques into our daily training sessions? I don't want her to get bored.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

You seem like you have a pretty sensible approach. Your husband, otoh, seems like ... well, .. like a caveman, sorry. I see THAT as the biggest potential roadblock to successful training. You'll probably need to work out the conflict if you want your journey to go smoothly.



Akira223 said:


> Does anyone have a suggestion for what I should do with Akira now? I do continue to do our sit, stay, and walk on a leash without pulling every day for short periods of times. Should I be integrating some other techniques into our daily training sessions? I don't want her to get bored.


That sounds like a good amount for a 14 week puppy to work on. If the dog is succeeding well with the ones you mentioned, I might begin to throw an introduction to fronts into the mix, intro to heel position, maybe a play retrieve, ... and some stationary attention for sure. Keep in mind that, education-wise, she's just a pup with much more on her plate than meets the eye.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Akira223 said:


> Yesterday remember how she ran into the woods with a piece of something dead and ignored our calls to come to us? When he finally caught Akira (Akira wouldn't even let either of us catch her, and it was only because of my 5 year old holding her collar that we managed to grab her) my hubby literally picked her up by her scruff, held her at his eye level and yelled at her as if she understood a word he was saying. Now, while she did then follow him after that like a good dog and came whens he was called.. I fully believe that the punishment was inappropriate and not understood by Akira.
> 
> I'm a horse trainer in the real world, and while I have limited knowledge on dog psychology, I've learned that similar equine training techniques work with dogs as well. Patience, understanding, and reward. I think the #1 foundation for training any animal is to have a deep understand of the way they think and interpret things.
> 
> .


Oh my. What a wonderful way to teach a dog NOT to come or allow herself to be caught. The last thing she did was allow herself to be caught, and since dogs tend to associate consequences with the last thing they did . . . Dog training is not that different from horse training. There are people who train very humanely in both areas - and people who don't. There are also people who think they have to act like the animals in order to communicate with them, and those who understand that we can share a third language (I use clicker training). We can work at understanding how they see things, but it's difficult to be sure our theories are sound, and not a projection of ourselves. It's much easier to study and understand the laws of behavior and learning (operant and classical conditioning). Once you have a basis in that, you can formulate ways to communicate more effectively.
It sounds to me like the issue is not really the training of the dog but your husband's lack of respect for your ability, feelings and wishes. I find that sad. I would also address that, and be careful not to allow the dog to become a pawn in your marital relations issues. 
It's wonderful to have empathy for how animals feel, and how they are likely to intepret things. For real training though, I think it is at least equally important to understand how learning theory works and how to use it. Look at some of the Kikopup videos on Youtube for some excellent ideas on how and what you can teach her.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Akira223 said:


> She knows come to some extent, however her desire to come to me, or continue with whatever she is playing with at the time determines whether she wants to obey that command sometimes. (yesterday she found something dead in the woods, and completely ignored our calls to her and dissapeared into the brush with her findings)


Sounds like she needs more work in recall. I would spend time working on just that to build that behavior up much more strongly. I'd also work on a strong leave-it so you can direct her off such things before she can grab-and-go with them. Both can be taught quickly with positive reinforcement.



Akira223 said:


> She looks at me when I am training her pretty intensely. She is very eager to please.
> Sometimes she loses focus however, and that is something I would like to correct. If we are in public, getting her to sit is a challenge, she is very focused on whatever she is looking at in the distance that she doesn't even appear to hear my sometimes. I want her to be focusing on me at all times if I give her a command. If I want her to sit when a child passes by, I want her to Sit and STAY SITTING. Not sit, and then stand up when the child gets really close.


Different contexts require training during that context. I would work on the attention and such in calm situations and then try her in progressively more 'interesting' scenarios, going back to the beginning. Looking at you in the midst of training and looking at you when there's kids and people and other stuff around, that's a different challenge indeed. 

Continue to work with focusing on you and then put a cue to the behavior so you can call upon it when you need it. Then you can use the interaction as a reward since that's what she truly wants. Rewards don't have to be treats - they are whatever the dog wants most in that situation. 



Akira223 said:


> *Am I expecting too much out of her at this age? What sort of expectations should I follow for her age? *
> I just want to set her on the right path towards success and I am unsure as to what training I should be starting her with.


Perhaps to a point, yeah. She's really young and really interested in the world around her. She's in full "absorb the world" mode. Focusing and such might be a challenge for her like it is for a lot of young human children. Still, it's not to young to work on these things and build these habits.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone, your input has been very helpful. 
I understand that she is in full absorb mode, today for instance my kids and I were walking on the nature trail, and a bike started to approach. I stopped to allow him to pass, and Akira sat by her own leisure, at my side and waited. She is weary of new things/people, so I reassure her throughout the process. She simply wanted to sit and watch, absorb and learn. As the bike approached, the man told me "he had to stop and see my dog" (I get this a lot lol) he kneeled and allowed her to come to his hand (I could tell he was a dog owner) she licked and loved on him, happy to greet a stranger without fear as a friend. I feel like we all handled the situation well. She is not afraid of strangers, bikes, cars ect.. and when she shows fear, she looks up at me, and I calmy speak to her that it's okay. Upon hearing my voice you can tell by her body language that she is calmed. She always looks to me for protection and encouragement in new situations and I always praise her for being brave and good. She doesn't pull when my kids walk her. My 5 year old knows how to "become a tree" If she begins to pull, he will say "no!" and become a tree, upon feeling more tension in her line, she looks back at my son, and with a look of understanding, slows her pace and walks along side him as if she understands that he too is just a little pup. She has a wonderful maternal instinct. When we walk on the trails, she always checks to see if the little ones aren't too far behind. On many occasions, she will look back, disagree with how far they've wandered, and will sit or lay down in the road watching them intently until they get catch up. Once they catch up to us, she sniffs them all over, then continues walking. She's constantly checking us to make sure we're all still together and safe, and she really keeps a close eye on the little ones. It's a beautiful thing to watch.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Is Akira a GSD? My GSD mix was like that with children. It was heartwarming to watch. 

I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions. "correction" has a specific meaning in training. You sound like you're doing well. Your husband . . . Well, not so much. 

Have you tried a challenge? Ask him to let you prove what works. Pick a new word for recall and train it hardcore. Make recall so rewarding, Akira will run to you. Don't let him know what the word is. train until Akira is great at it, then challenge your husband. Let him use the old word, then use your new word. When he sees how much better she responds, challenge him to master positive techniques. Turn it into a game- what cool thing can we teach our dog?

Maybe that will work. I hope.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

This may be more advanced than you want, but go up to the post: Mind Blowing Dog- http://www.dogforums.com/dog-training-forum/114894-mind-blowing-dog-tricks.html

And look at the credits at the end, as suggestions for training sources. You can also ask Maureen for her secrets, as well as look at some of the other Youtube videos that she's posted...


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## guitarguy (Jul 25, 2012)

One thing I can give advice on is the recall...

Our former GSD Marshall (who we just devastatingly and unexpectedly lost 2 months ago) had a ROCK SOLID recall. I mean (and we've trained in this actual scenario) when running full speed the opposite direction from 100 yards away rock solid. For the record...we did LOTS of obedience classes. I miss that dog! Anyway...

The key to getting this is to start early (which you've already done) but more importantly to 1. never use the command when it can't be enforced (which you haven't done) and 2. never give the dog any reason to think that coming to you will result in anything other than lavish praise/delicious food/the start of her favorite game/etc (which you also haven't done)!

At such a young age the only time you should use the command is when she's attached to a long line. If she's outside and you need her in...go out there and get her attention and lure her in...don't use the command when there's a chance she'll ignore it. Build up distractions very very slowly. Remember...she's still SUPER young!! 

You may want to even consider changing to a new word and starting over (I use 'here' because so many people who don't know your dog use 'come' as a default). I actually started by just treating every time my dog came to me (while on a long line) over and over before ever even introducing a cue for it. Every time she comes to you make it 100% candy and gumballs. 

Lastly...practice practice practice!! But remember not to overdo it with such a young pup. Keep it fun and keep training sessions short. Good luck!


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Here is what I think you should do. I think you should find a good puppy obedience class (one that uses positive reinforcement and clicker training) and attend with...WITH your husband. This kind of obedience class is at least 50% about training the people. Going to obedience school and learning better ways to train will help both of you, and as a bonus you and your husband will be able to get on the same page about training methods. Plus it's fun!


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone! The game suggestions for the hubby are a great idea. I certainly will try it. As far as obedience classes. I would LOVE to go to them, I really would. Unfortunatley due to our location (middle of nowhere) being 30mins from society, two kids, 4 and 5, a working husband. We don't have the time to take her. There isn't anyone to care for the kids (we haven't found a babysitter willing to come out to our home so far out. Which puts me in the position of training her. When I started I really didn't have a clue what I was doing and just used similar positive training techniques used with horses. When I became confused and wasn't getting a good response my Akira, I looked up techniques online, which worked flawlessly. 

I'm sorry this is a stupid question, but I am new to dog terms. What is GSD? 

I am going to post a full body shot of her soon (my camera literally broke on me 3 days ago) She is beautifully coloured. We never saw her parents or litter mates. She has a full blanket, with light tan and red markings, a medium sized mask, with a very unique white stripe that forms into the shape of a harness. Very pretty! Perhaps I can get some opinions on her background. Her breeder is not responding to any of my E-mails so that is a lost cause >.<

Working on Recall will be our new focus


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Akira223 said:


> I'm sorry this is a stupid question, but I am new to dog terms. What is GSD?


German Shepherd Dog


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Sorry, must hijack.



Akira223 said:


> Unfortunatley due to our location (middle of nowhere) being 30mins from society,


You think 30 mins from society is in the middle of nowhere? Were an hour and a half from the nearest walmart (and in thus society) and its not even a supercenter, just a regular little walmart. Via the pizza hut rule we are officially in the middle of nowhere, I don't think we have one within 200 miles. We cant get milk on a sunday as the grocery store is closed without driving to the big city an hour and a half away. Our town just made it to the 500 people mark this year (Score!)

You may be able to see the middle of nowhere from where you are and if you can wave at those of us that actually are in the middle of nowhere, lol. 

Hijack over.


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## Good Shepherd (Jul 23, 2011)

Guitar Guy gave you some excellent advice: use a long line when working on recall so that when you give the command you can make certain your dog will come to you. Keep training sessions short and fun -- your German Shepherd is naturally smart and eager to please, but still very young. If you're giving food rewards, you might try cutting hot dogs (raw is fine) into nickel-sized slices; they won't be chewed for as long as, say, a biscuit (so you can keep things moving), can be delivered quickly and are inexpensive. When my dog gives me the behavior I'm asking for, I say "Okay!" as a release and then treat him. Be consistent in your expectations and your commands -- if you get lazy, so will your dog; if you use confusing language, you'll confuse your dog -- and be patient. Most training errors are the fault of the trainer, NOT the dog. (On that note, I might add that your husband sounds as if he could use some education. I hope he doesn't abuse your children, too?) It's great fun when you're working with your dog and you feel rhythm and communication developing (and, in my opinion, you couldn't ask, overall, for a more receptive breed than a German Shepherd).

I agree with the person who recommended The Culture Clash and I also endorse The Other End of the Leash, a great book by Patricia McConnell. It's also a good idea, if you haven't already, to read one of the many good books available about German Shepherds, so that you understand the nature of your particular breed of dog.

Your GSD will give his/her life for you; be worthy of that!


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Yes she is pure GSD. I will begin working on the recall today. 

Kodi, I suppose you really are in the middle of nowhere! Like I said, it's really just a problem of not having anyone to look after the kids. I found a dog training place that has sessions at 8pm, but that isn't nearly late enough for us to make it to the sessions even if we had a babysitter! Hubby gets home late from work, kids have soccer and karate in the evenings (due to their age they're in different divisions, which fall on different days, ugh!) 

And NO! he does not abuse the kids! He's simply ignorant to dog language. He wants to treat his dog the only way he knows how, which is a rough method he learned from his father, who in turn, learned it from his father. It's a cycle of ignorance, one which I've been set out to change. Hubby is starting to get the hint that things aren't working out between him and the dog. He's started to clue in and realize that I have an amazing relationship with Akira because I am doing something he's not!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Free Downloads may help: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Good Shepherd said:


> When my dog gives me the behavior I'm asking for, I say "Okay!" as a release and then treat him.


Not really meaning to nitpick BUT ... this is somewhat flawed, fundamentally. 

example: if the dog is left in a sit-stay ... return to heel, "mark" and FEED FOR POSITION while still in the sit-stay, ... and THEN release. You can also pay the release as well, if you want (I usually pay this front and center, informally).

And .. since I'm already going a bit o/t ... a good trick for the hotdogs is to freeze them first before cutting, which will allow you to cut them paper thin with a good sharp knife. I prefer this to quartering them into pencil eraser-sized niblets as some people might suggest (which is actually ok), but if you make them paper thin they will lend themselves well to throwing and STICKING exactly where you throw them rather than 'bouncing' to a less desirable spot like the niblets are prone to do. Throwing food ACCURATELY can be a handy technique to use, in a mark and reward training program.

OK. Nitpick finished, lol.


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## teddylilymom (Jul 13, 2012)

I am a huge fan of Pat Miller as a trainer. She has a great DVD series that you could buy. (Books, too, but DVD will show you what and how to do what you are trying to do). Also like Jolanta Benal's book and website, search her name and all will appear.

Positive training is 110% the way to go for an "Awesome" GSD. Don't believe anyone who pushes aversive training, yeah it works but at great cost to your relationship with your dog and your dog's eagerness.

Good luck!
T


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

petpeeve said:


> And .. since I'm already going a bit o/t ... a good trick for the hotdogs is to freeze them first before cutting, which will allow you to cut them paper thin with a good sharp knife. I prefer this to quartering them into pencil eraser-sized niblets as some people might suggest (which is actually ok), but if you make them paper thin they will lend themselves well to throwing and STICKING exactly where you throw them rather than 'bouncing' to a less desirable spot like the niblets are prone to do. Throwing food ACCURATELY can be a handy technique to use, in a mark and reward training program.


OK, this is brilliant. I always cut them into quarters then cut the quarters into tiny pieces and the pieces always bounce everywhere. I'm totally going to try the thin slices! Thank you!


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Couldn't agree more Teddy. I use 100% positive training for my horses as well. What a bond you can have with an animal once they understand that YOU can speak their language! 

We've got seven straight days of rain in the forecast which started last night. I feel bad for Akira... now I've got three kids who don't want to go outside into the rain, and are full of energy while mommy tries to keep the house in order! 

One other question I had, well two...

We haven't really let Akira upstairs as most of it is carpeted. The only place that is not carpeted is the kitchen, and the hallway leading from the basement to the kitchen. We don't want her on the carpets or near the furinture (The fabric on the furniture is god awful for animal hair) I don't think it's unreasonable not to allow her into the living room on our carpets and on the furniture. She can still see and be very close to us from the kitchen. Now, while she appears to remember SOMETIMES that she isn't allowed on the carpets. Other times, she walks right onto them, sniffs all around, and totally ignores me calling her to get off. 

From what I read in an article earlier, it said that the dog needs to associate a visual with the word NO or something. And used an example of using a broom as a barrier into a doorway and pointing to it and saying "no" 
I've tried this with the carpets, saying no and pointing to the carpets, but I don't really feel like she's getting the message. Usually when I am upstairs, I'm either cooking, cleaning, or putting away laundy, Akira of course wants to follow me through my tasks, however she is not allowed due to them leading me into the carpeted areas. I end up just putting her back outside or into her room so that I can finish my housework. 
So, my question is. How can I really train her not to go onto the carpets so that she really understands? 

Second question: I heard a rumor that you aren't supposed to allow your GSD to go up and down stairs up to a certain age to avoid hip dysplasia? I do plan to ask a vet about this when we get her an appointment. Unfortunateley we're at a delay in that being in Canada, for whatever reason, Vet costs are over double what they are in the states. A first time visit to establish yourself as a client with NO shots needed is $200.00! In the states it's $35.00 (what the bloody hell!) Akira has all of her shots except her rabies, so we have found a wonderful vet just over the border from us who is used by a friend and her dog. We will be taking her there instead of a Canadian Vet, however due to it's location, we won't have an appointment for 2 1/2 weeks >.< 

Third question: Okay, when I was growing up we had two dogs (yorkies, I know not the brightest and not my choice) I lived in North Carolina, and we had to use a pretty tough flea control for our two dogs. The dogs would stay in the house, and go outside in the backyard to pee. The backyard was totally fenced in from all animals, and a cat fence installed at the to of the fence didn't allow other crawling animals to get in either. This created a "no flea" zone for the dogs. But if we so much as took them for a walk in the neighborhood, they would come back covered in fleas. Now, not a huge concern as the monthly flea medications we gave them killed the fleas off and prevented them from breeding. 

Now that I have Akira (I live in Canada now) I have been very religiously checking her for fleas and ticks (we live in the country and there are a lot of woods) you'd think she would pick something up, especially with the amount of travel out of our backyard that she and I do. (dog parks, beaches, trails, camping) there are always other dogs, and she always goes into places where other dogs have been. And yet, although she is not currently under and flea prevention, she has not had a single flea. I cannot figure out the reasoning for this. My only theory is that the colder climate here in Canada keeps the flea and tick population to a minimum? When I bathe Akira, I use a Flea shampoo just as a preventative. I put her in the tub and plug the drain so I could see if any fleas came off, and yet, again.. nothing! Anyone know why this may be? I'm a curious person who loves filling her head with useless knowledge, so no knowing the reasoning behind this is driving me crazy!

EDIT: one more thing, sorry for the novel! 
I am really opposed to giving Akira hot dogs or people food. Right now, we absolutely do not feed her from our plates, she eats straight dog food, dog bones, dog treats. We don't want her begging for food, on our laps ect when we eat. As it is right now, we can sit on the deck and enjoy a sandwich and she could care less about what we're eating, and I want to keep it that way! It's not that I don't think she deserves a nice treat, something special for extra good behaviour. It's the fact that hot dogs are so.. mysterious, I don't even feed it to my kids or my family, I wouldn't want my dog to eat it. I don't feel like eating highly processed, salted mystery meat was really meant for dogs, or humans for that matter. If I were to reward her with something extra special, I think it would have to be cooked chicken. (we have a butcher right around the corner, the meat is cheaper to buy there than it is at the grocery store, and it's all organic!) the dog would be pretty spoiled to eat all organic chicken! 
From the butcher, he also sells smoked dog bones, which look like the heels of cows or pigs, some of them have a lot of good meat on them. As this "fresh smoked dog bone" has never been available to me in my earlier years with dogs, I'm quite unfamiliar with it and it's pros or cons with the dogs. I can't really imagine it would be bad for them. It's not like the bones can shatter at all, and it's just loaded with good meat and bone marrow. I suppose my question is whether or not this is a good thing to give to my dog. I just want to make sure it's not going to hurt her in the long run. I've had friends that gave their dogs chicken bones and bones for stews, one friend in particular, I took the bone away from their little dog and brought it to their owner and said "I think your dog got into the trash she's chewing on a chicken bone!" to my surprise, the owner pointed out that she intentionally gave it to her dog, and the dog loved it.... I warned her of the dangers of doing this, and she didn't believe me. It wasn't a week later and that dog was in the hospital from ingesting chicken bones.. sigh. The point in this story is that the bones were sold to her by her butcher who said they were good for dogs. She fed them to her pup out of ignorance and look what happened. Kind of the same way they still sell Greenbones at petsmart despite the blockages they cause. How many owners buy them and give them to their dogs because they're under the impression that if the stores sells them, they must be okay.


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## Good Shepherd (Jul 23, 2011)

@petpeeve: of course you really mean to nitpick, as do I in observing that the ellipses in the second and fourth lines of your post should have been double dashes. Each trainer has a slightly different take on the fundamentals, so the question is: does your dog obey consistently, willingly, and happily? Does your dog respect you as well as love you? The training methods I use are the result of a combination of exhaustive reading on both general dog training and specific German Shepherd training plus studying one-on-one with an experienced local trainer (who also breeds German Shepherds). My dogs have turned out pretty well. I would correct another person's methods if they were (1) cruel (2) ineffective, otherwise I'd allow for variations.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Akira223 said:


> I am really opposed to giving Akira hot dogs or people food. Right now, we absolutely do not feed her from our plates, she eats straight dog food, dog bones, dog treats. We don't want her begging for food, on our laps ect when we eat. As it is right now, we can sit on the deck and enjoy a sandwich and she could care less about what we're eating, and I want to keep it that way! It's not that I don't think she deserves a nice treat, something special for extra good behaviour. It's the fact that hot dogs are so.. mysterious, I don't even feed it to my kids or my family, I wouldn't want my dog to eat it. I don't feel like eating highly processed, salted mystery meat was really meant for dogs, or humans for that matter. If I were to reward her with something extra special, I think it would have to be cooked chicken. (we have a butcher right around the corner, the meat is cheaper to buy there than it is at the grocery store, and it's all organic!) the dog would be pretty spoiled to eat all organic chicken!


Tiny bits of chicken would be fine. Another idea is string cheese. You could also use liver or beef heart - TINY TINY pieces. The idea is not so much to have it be "something special for extra good behavior," but rather a tiny but high-value treat (that your dog really likes) to reward the dog over and over for doing what you want her to do (ideally as part of a clicker training system, which in my experience is the best training method). The hot dogs get cut into over 100 pieces per hot dog. 

As for the "people food" thing - I don't find that my dog comes and bugs me when I'm eating a hot dog just because I use hot dogs in training her. That's because I've taught her that bugging me while I eat is not going to be an effective route to getting food. I taught her that by ignoring her completely when she begged. I could have kibble on my plate and she still wouldn't bug me. This is a training thing, not a "type of food" thing. Feel free to not use hot dogs if you think they're gross, but using hot dogs (or chicken) won't cause her to beg.


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## troubleontherun (Jun 24, 2012)

Hi, it's so nice to see someone else with similar problems! We too are 45 miles from nearest town and 150 miles from the city, which is the only one that offers any kind of training. I am alone during the week with our 10month old Akita and our rescue 21/2 year old Border Collie which we got as a companion for our Akita as her energy was just too much for me. Everything runs relatively good during the week but then my husband comes home and "undoes" any kind of training we have accomplished. Very frustrating. Can anyone tell me a good site to go to to get my Border Collie to play with balls, frisbees etc. He seems scared of any kind of toy and when our Akita plays with hers he gets very upset. When I try to play ball with him its like he doesn't get that it's okay to play with humans. I do notice when they are outside alone he will steal her toys and tease her with them, trying to get her to chase him, but he doesn't really play with them. Any suggestions? Thanks all


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

@ Good Shepherd: well now, if I REALLY wanted to nitpick (which, actually, I don't) I'd say that you probably mean to say the THIRD and fourth lines. At least that how my previous post appears on my computer screen.

Nothing wrong with INCREASING effectiveness in training. In fact, that's all I was attempting to offer / clarify for the OP and anyone else who might be reading. Same thing with freezing the hotdogs. 

Regardless, I shall henceforth choose my words -- and my punctuation -- with more attention to detail.

*shrugs*


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

That's an interesting point you pointed out with the hot dogs/kibble on a plate scenario. My biggest concern for feeding her hot dogs was it's nutritional value, which is why I thought using cooked chicken instead would ease my overly healthy state of mind! 

It's a relief to know I can feed her chicken however and she won't develop a desire to eat the chicken off my plate if I trainer her properly. 

She did REALLY well with come today, and for the first time, walked off leash at my left leg with full attention on me no matter what pace we went, and stopped on a dime when I stopped. Loved it!


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

wow! the recall worked really well, I am so impressed! I decided on the word "Kommen" a friend said it means "come" in german? either way I thought it was catchy and she was ignoring "come" and "here"

Every time she got distracted by something (wandered up the stairs by her lonesome into the dark; I can only assume she is up to no good) I called her name, no reponse, "kommen!" she booked it! getting rough with the kids, recalled, came right to me. What a difference training an intelligent dog. I've only ever attempted to train my yorkies, who with every command, looked at me like "durr?"


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

petpeeve said:


> And .. since I'm already going a bit o/t ... a good trick for the hotdogs is to freeze them first before cutting, which will allow you to cut them paper thin with a good sharp knife. I prefer this to quartering them into pencil eraser-sized niblets as some people might suggest (which is actually ok), but if you make them paper thin they will lend themselves well to throwing and STICKING exactly where you throw them rather than 'bouncing' to a less desirable spot like the niblets are prone to do. Throwing food ACCURATELY can be a handy technique to use, in a mark and reward training program.


True. It's way I'm glad he's a pastry dog. I can throw flattened out bits of bread and such. Helps avoid the bouncing issue you mention. It's one reason why I like to toss a ball to him to catch. Better accuracy there will help me throw food better too. Same with deli meat (already thin for me, and I'm almost as lazy as I am cheap...er frugal. LOL)

Next time I use a bit of hot dog, I'll have to remember this tip.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Akira223 said:


> I am really opposed to giving Akira hot dogs or people food. Right now, we absolutely do not feed her from our plates, she eats straight dog food, dog bones, dog treats. We don't want her begging for food, on our laps ect when we eat.


Then don't accept it. I realize you might not want to deal with it, but if she does it, direct her to a place you want her to be and reward her there. If Wally the Food-Starved-Food-Addict Dog can master it, I'm sure Akira would have no problems 

Organic chicken? Nice! I do eat those mysterious hot dogs - but I usually give him deli ham or such. I feed him...I guess it's not organic, but it's nothing that I can't pronounce or don't know what it is and meat is the first set of ingredients 




Akira223 said:


> From the butcher, he also sells smoked dog bones, which look like the heels of cows or pigs, some of them have a lot of good meat on them. As this "fresh smoked dog bone" has never been available to me in my earlier years with dogs, I'm quite unfamiliar with it and it's pros or cons with the dogs. I can't really imagine it would be bad for them. It's not like the bones can shatter at all, and it's just loaded with good meat and bone marrow. I suppose my question is whether or not this is a good thing to give to my dog. I just want to make sure it's not going to hurt her in the long run.


Uncooked bones should be good as should smoked bones that are strong enough. Just make sure they are sturdy since GSDs are such powerful dogs. If she has to chew/grind it down, chances are, she's fine. If she can crunch/bite/snap it, I'd take it away as it might splinter.

Don't even talk to me about those Greenies. Ugh. My mom was going to get Wally some one time, and I told her NO NO NO, DON'T DO IT. I'd rather Wally get a bag of gingerbread dog cookies or something. Or some beef jerky (she gets him a Slim Jim sometimes, which he LOVES)

BTW, that's cool you're using German for a cue. Wally responds well to "Here" (he didn't to "Come"), but now I'm tempted to see about a Spanish word to use since he seems to respond well to Spanish.


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## Good Shepherd (Jul 23, 2011)

@petpeeve: well said, Sir/Madam; points taken and, yes, I cited the wrong lines. Beg forgiveness & fresh start.

@akira: I'm a vegetarian, so the idea of hot dogs doesn't appeal to me, either, but they're what my trainer and a number of books recommended, so I bought them, swallowed my rising gorge, sliced them up and used them for training. I work with my dogs regularly to keep their skills sharp and most of the time in the later stages (except when working on new commands) don't use treats, just praise. My dogs eat California Natural dry dog food, to which I occasionally add raw carrots, and Mother Hubbard dog biscuits. I feed them twice per day. Mornings always begin the same way: long walk and then coat raking/brushing, teeth-brushing, once-a-week ear cleaning, breakfast. We have long walks twice per day (sometimes three times) and I have a good-sized fenced yard where we can play off-lead.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Been a bit since I posted, wanted to share a story from yesterday at the beach.

Akira is so wonderful. There were three other dogs there yesterday, a rottweiller, a husky, and a labrador who just showed up to go swiming without his owner (he was overweight and well into his teens. I saw him walking down the road on my way to the Beach. His owner showed up later on a four wheeler to get him back and said "I can't keep him away from here! Every day he just decides he wants to go for a swim and just walks down here!" (which really makes me laugh and intrigues me that a dog would just be sitting around his house, and then suddenly decide "hey! I want to go swimming! I'm just going to get my fat ass up and go!") Anyway! Akira played with all the dogs, and while the other owners would call their dogs back, only to be totally ignored, Akira always came to me. The other dogs would have to go back onto their leashes for getting out of control, yet Akira stayed glued to my side. When we were in the lawn chair relaxing, she layed next to me unleashed and never bothered getting up. Even when new people arrive, she didn't go to them, she just sat and watched.

She also gets really upset if I go into the deep end of the water. She will come galloping into the water, swim over to me and frantically try to grab onto any piece of my body that she can, and will death grip pull me back to shore and will not let go until we can touch the bottom. She grabbed my thumb yesterday, and held it so tight that I have marks. I am just mind blown that she has an instinct to rescue me from the deep water without any training at all. She will even frantically follow me along the dock, looking down at me desperately and crying for me to get out.
She doesn't mind playing with me in the shallow water, she loves it. She leaps and bounds, gallops and frolics like a little foal in a meadow when she's in the shallow water, and she likes to swim a few feet out with me into the deep end, but always tries to pull me back to the shallow water.
Yesterday she did the funniest thing. At the time, I had no idea what she was wanting, but I figured it out when we got home.
At some point, she was swimming with me in the water, and then suddenly, just swam away from me, out of the water, and over to my car. Where she then sat by the passenger door and started barking at me from in the water. Very clearly telling me "get out of the water, and come over to the car" I didn't want to get out of the water, and was curious to see what she would do. ( I had all of my windows open) next thing I know she's jumped through the window, and it sitting with her soaking wet, sand covered self in my passenger seat... I of course, rush over to get her out of the car, meanwhile everyone at the back has been watching and thinks it's hilarious... I open the door, and she is just sitting there looking at me, very stubbornly. The look on her face said "get in the car, let GO!" I realize she wanted to leave and go home, but I wasn't quite ready to leave yet, so I pulled her out and rolled up my windows. Later when we got home, I opened the front door, and she dashed inside, ran down the stairs, and relieved herself in the spot on the floor where she always goes to the bathroom. I realized that for the 5 hours we were there, I never saw her go to the bathroom once. She is so polite that she held it in until she could go to the bathroom at home. Silly girl...

Also, here are some picture of my Angel. (She truly is a blessing from god. An Angel sent to protect our family, and give this poor mother a friend during my lonely days as a stay at home mom and housewife) 


13 weeks old. We stopped to rest on the trail, and she layed down behind my 4yr old









14 weeks













































16 weeks


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

She did leap onto my 5yr old in this shot, scared him, made him cry, and scratched his back up pretty bad... oh well...


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

Wow. She is absolutely gorgeous! I love reading your stories about her. Has your hubs gotten better about being rough with her? Mine was like that at first with our puppy. My hubs would get so mad because Dexter (our pup) would submissive pee when my hubs would walk in the door. I explained why he was doing it to my hubs and I asked my hubs to walk in, kneel down and let Dex come to him. My hubs did it, and no submimssive pee. All he got was happy wiggly puppy love. He did this for about a week straight and now Dex is totally in love with him and we have no submissive peeing. BUT I had to explain and PROVE to my hubs that it was his actions causing the problems. NOW he gets it. lol

We really need a "how to train your husband" thread.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

ugh... no luck on the hubby thing. He's stubborn as hell. The other day he had the kids outside with the dog, and I watched from the window as he called her to come here over and over and she totally ignored him... she pees with me sometimes too. But only when she is really excited. Like if I've had her outside for a few hours and she hasn't seen me. When I first let her in, she is so excited to see me, she jumps and and just wants me to pet her everywhere and usually pees in the process...


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

But that is the "excited pee". It's completely different from the "submissive pee". Dexter still does the "excited pee". And if I'm not careful he will pee all over the floor and furniture. lol I learned the hard way. Dex is crated so when I and my 3 year old son get home, my son lets him out of the crate and we walk straight out the back door so Dex can pee. He will still do the excited pee, but at least he's outside. 

Also, if I know someone is coming over, I will take Dex out to pee first. This actually stops the excited weeing. If his bladder is empty, no pee comes out. 

The submissive pee is when they are intimidated and scared of someone, they will belly crawl and pee all over themselves. This is what Dex used to do.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Yep, that's part of the problem too. When she pees, she gets it all over herself, (mostly her tail, which she then wags and flings ALL over the room and anyone in it....) rolls into it ect..

This pisses him off, so he grabs her by his collar and like.. throws her away from the pee to keep from spreading it. Where as I'm like.. "walk AWAY from the spot!", and continue to walk away, she may leave a trail of piss, but at least by the time her bladder is empty, she isn't on a puddle of it and you can direct her somewhere else away from the pee. 

Still doesn't listen.. whatever.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Sooo.. She's 4 months old now. Still practicing recall. Sits on a dime, stays... mostly. She gets the idea of it.. for example. At the beach, I have her tied, if I walk away to get something out of the car, I tell her to sit, and stay. If I do that, then when I walk away, she doesn't panic, cry and whine, and pull on the line to get to me. If I DON'T tell her to stay, she does fret, panic, whine and pull. She may leave her initial sit area and walk around whilst looking at me hopelessly, but at least she seems to get that she needs to stay in that area without going nuts, and mommy will be right back. 

Still working on getting her focus onto me when we're in public. Sometimes she ignores my calls to her when she's just wrapped up in the awesomeness of the world. 

I guess my question is what should I be teaching her now at 4 months old?


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Please allow me to go a little OT (tho this is training related) that i have to have a laugh when i see 'clicker training for horses' i canunderstand target/clicker training for marine & zoo animals... animals that are WILD & need a motovator other then willingless to please to do things for humans. IME horse clicker training makes for a very pushy, rude horse. I work with crazy race horses & believe me as someone who has been kicked (this last time the most recent) only a few times in their 20-odd career with horses, i prefer to use methods like the one Clinton Anderson uses, much like the ones horses use with one another, remember this is an animal 4 times your size that can KILL you ... best to never let them find that out :/.

that said, how awesome your dog turns out depends on the hours you are willing to put in, much like horses. I am not a professional, but i do spend a lot of time with my dogs doing 'doggy' things & just 'being' with them & that IMO is why i always seem to have a very deep bond with my dogs. i never have to get into a 'training' mindset when working with mine, training is incorperated into every day existance so if Im lucky, they never know they are being 'trained' LOL. 

I used to be a 'stop doing that!' person yrs ago, but now I am more of a 'why are you doing that?' i like to just watch my dogs & learn their thought process.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

I guess it depends on how you believe the "animals whose only motivation is pleasing humans" aspect. Personally, I don't think any animal even thinks that way ("oh, let me see what I can do for a human!"), instead, they think in terms of getting what they want/need (depending on how the animal was treated in the past, a human might be the LAST thing the animal wants).

I really don't even think Wally is thinking about "pleasing me" and his is a companion breed. He wants companionship, but not necessarily to be my servant, and he didn't even want my companionship to begin with. So...where was that "I live to please you, my human" in him?

I figure - why worry about it when I have methods that are easy on him and his personality, but don't have rely on having to hope he's got a high desire to please me because I'm a human? Probably the angle those horse trainers that go with marker training are working with. I'd probably be the same way. Maybe I should never work with a horse in my life *shrug* 

I guess I just don't think they can reason out that "oh I'm helping a human so my life is fulfilled." I do know he can think about his belly and loves food - so I'll go with that, motivators I know work well and condition behaviors to they, themselves become rewarding, but not necessarily "because he's doing it for me" (again, just don't know an animal can make that determination of motive).


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Aren't horse wild animals?

Any luck in getting her to potty outside? I can't imagine having a GSD that potties indoors. Apparently at some point she's decided you do want her to potty inside, and that outside isn't for pottying. . .could be a problem as she gets older.


I don't think I could live with a man who was harsh with my dog and didn't listen. How disrespectful! And a bully. I hate bullies.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Clicker training does not work with all horses. For instance, I once worked with a saddlebred who had been mistreated, obviously, he couldn't give a damn whether he pleased me or not, and my entire with him was spent assuring him that I wasn't trying to eat him. 

On the other hand, I have an arabian... well in his years and living heavenly in his well earned "out to pasture" status. He is a one person horse, wouldn't listen to a damn thing anyone else told him to do, but he would flip head over heels if I asked him too. He 100% had a desire to please, a desire to just be in my company. He didn't even give a damn about other horses, he didn't want to be with them, which is unusual for a herd animal, he just wanted to stay with me. These traits are typical of an arab due to their unique history with the bedouins. I have seen clicker training work wonders on arabs.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

The point of marker (clicker or whatever) training is that the animal doesn't have to care one bit about pleasing you. Killer whales obviously don't care about pleasing humans, but marker training is used with them. So I don't see why it wouldn't work with a wild horse.


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## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

How sad. Your hubby is going to get bit when she decides she's had enough of his rough BS. Then he'll probably beat the hell out of her, or have her put down. If it were me, I'd rehome the dog. I wouldn't subject any animal to that treatment.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Akira223 said:


> He 100% had a desire to please, a desire to just be in my company.


A desire to please you because you're a human or he found your company rewarding and desirable and complying with your instructions make that company last and be pleasant/fun/etc? To me, those are saying two very different things. If he just had 'the desire to please a human' he wouldn't be a one-person horse? Any human tell him something, he'd do it. It wasn't a desire to please a human, it's he finds YOUR company desirable, imo. To me, still working/wanting a reward - that #1 reward happens to be your company. 

And I agree with Willowy - using marker training makes it moot. If the marker is used correctly and the reward is something the animal highly wants/desires, what would cause it to fail?


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

On Akira: 
My husband has pretty much decided it best to just ignore her. It saddens me that he doesn't have a relationship with our dog due to his inpatience, but I think what we have going now is working. She will come and sit at the edge of the carpet between us at night. He will talk gently to her and laugh at her silly play. Occasionally he will get down on the ground and let her come to him, he will pet her, whilst jokingly saying "there you go, go ahead, get all the pee out! good girl! good dog peeing everywhere!" and just pets and rubs her as she licks him. Hubby doesn't want her to be put outside without being tied either... I got in trouble the one day he came home and saw her off line, and he told me never to do it again. Well.... I do it everyday! If she's on her line, she digs holes in the yard. If she's off line, she doesn't wander, and pretty much stays glued to the house... so much so, that she won't even go out into the yard to pee, and instead, defecates on the deck.... this way, she doesn't dig holes, she doesn't chew things up, and she wears herself out doing dog stuff. 

Well with the abused saddlebred, we did try to introduce clicker training to him, however his greatest desire was to be away from all humans, not even food could coax him into doing anything... and that's saying a lot for a horse! 
I knew I needed something very gentle for him, so I began training myself in the way of Monty Roberts, a world famous horse trainer who uses gentle training techniques which are solely based around using body language that the horse uses in his own herd. Using a technique which Monty invented called "Join Up" I became one with the frightened Saddlebred, he not only learned to trust me, not longed to be with me. I could let him off lead, and he would follow me around because I made myself the alpha horse, the leader of the herd. He found protection and guidance within me. 


This horse would not even let you halter him to start, and if you wanted to trim his feet? You could forget it. The nails and chains driven and wrapped around his feet in his previous life as a show stallion had ruined him. And a highway accident leaving him trapped in an overturned trailer scarred him not only physically but mentally for the rest of his life. He can now be haltered, bridled, mounted, ridden at all levels! walks on the lead, stops on a dime, doesn't bite or kick. He's become quite the gentlemen. I found getting him to go onto the trailer to be the hardest part of our training. Understandable due to his past, without using whips ropes or physical strain, he will now load himself onto a trailer. (Not a slant load as he goes insane when the door starts to close) but he will gladly load onto a stock trailer because he can turn himself to look and watch as the door closes. 

We've gotten so far off topic, it's amazing!


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Okay, more questions regarding my Akira! 

First and foremost. I was thinking some sort of training plan for my husband and Akira might be good. You know at first I thought Akira was afraid of men. However after seeing how fine she is around strange new men, while she does pee slightly submissively. She does it happily while sitting up and receiving all kind of attention. She goes into play mode very shortly after the first greet. Where as with my hubby, she submisses on her belly, and is too afraid to really play. 
Which got me to really think. It's not just men, it's HIM. 

He's hurt their relationship, and I want to set them up on the path of getting them to like each other better. Akira so badly wants to please him, so I think she will accept any sort of attention and praise from him. 

Should I just set my hubby up doing the same work I do with her? 
give him a treat, ask her to sit, stay, come? I'm just worried she will ignore commands because she is too busy submitting. She doesn't even sit when he asks her too because she isn't in the listening mode, she's just in the "see? I'm submitting. I'm submitting a lot" mode. 

Would putting her on a leash and having them work on walking and stopping together be better to start? 




Also, regarding her outside time. He doesn't want her outside unless she is on her line. Well.. the problem with this is that she digs holes all over the yard out of boredom. And she continues to dig at the stake, eventually bringing it out of the ground. 
Secondly, she gets the line wrapped into the triangle of the stake, leaving her with 5ft of line, and no access to her water. 
This means when we go out, she has to stay in her crate. 

I normally just put her outside and let her wander. She's good about not wandering off. I think she is staying on our property.. but who really knows where she goes? 
My only concern is her getting hit by a car. I was out weeding the front garden, she was off line of course, and I heard a car dramatically slow down. I thought perhaps I had a visitor, but instead, saw my dog wandering around in front of the car. I can't believe she ventured so far off into the road. It's a pretty good distance from the house where I was to the road. 
Other dogs. There is a German Shepherd two houses down. No idea if it's male or female, that occasionally wanders into our front yard. I don't know if it's aggressive or not. And I'm afraid it's going to hurt Akira, or get her pregnant. 
I think a hidden fence would be my best option. Does anyone have a clue how much something like this would cost? I think I would really only need to place it on the 300ft of frontage of our lot. Maybe less as I probably wouldn't put it in the dense undergrowth to the side as Akira couldn't easily go through there. I can't see her going around the fence to get to the road. She has a lot of room to explore in the back of the house. It's a 3 acre lot so it's not like she's deprived. There's a lot of woods to venture into. 

Also we haven't taken her to the vet yet. The reason being a matter of costs. Like I said before, the costs to take a dog to the vet here vs the US is exponential. $35 vs $150 for the same services. My hubby is the only one who can take her over the border to the US since I am awaiting a renewal on my visa here >.< but he isn't exactly motivated to do this as he doesn't quite get along with her, or have the time to do so. 
I REALLY don't want her to get heart worms over this stupid issue. Can I order heart worm medicine online?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Akira223 said:


> Clicker training does not work with all horses. For instance, I once worked with a saddlebred who had been mistreated, obviously, he couldn't give a damn whether he pleased me or not, and my entire with him was spent assuring him that I wasn't trying to eat him.
> 
> On the other hand, I have an arabian... well in his years and living heavenly in his well earned "out to pasture" status. He is a one person horse, wouldn't listen to a damn thing anyone else told him to do, but he would flip head over heels if I asked him too. He 100% had a desire to please, a desire to just be in my company. He didn't even give a damn about other horses, he didn't want to be with them, which is unusual for a herd animal, he just wanted to stay with me. These traits are typical of an arab due to their unique history with the bedouins. I have seen clicker training work wonders on arabs.


Clicker training works well on more independent animals because it gives them the opportunity to please themselves. However with an animal who is stressed and over threshold the first key necessity is to get him to a place where he is able to learn. That can be tricky. It can also be tricky to find the right motivator for the animal (it's not always food). Sometimes the reward is relieving pressure. For instance, Sue Ailsby once taught a llama not to kick, by clicking and moving away from him every time he put his foot down.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Akira223 said:


> Okay, more questions regarding my Akira!
> 
> First and foremost. I was thinking some sort of training plan for my husband and Akira might be good. You know at first I thought Akira was afraid of men. However after seeing how fine she is around strange new men, while she does pee slightly submissively. She does it happily while sitting up and receiving all kind of attention. She goes into play mode very shortly after the first greet. Where as with my hubby, she submisses on her belly, and is too afraid to really play.
> Which got me to really think. It's not just men, it's HIM.
> ...


Letting a pup wander is NOT a good idea. I'd put up some kind of physical fencing, and not allow her out unless you are with her (which you may already be doing) Invisible fencing creates fear issues for some dogs, doesn't phase other dogs if they are in drive to chase something, and keeps nothing from entering your yard. Letting a pup out to wander and hoping she stays in the yard is NOT something to do with a dog you value. As to HW preventative, yes you can order it on line, but you need a vet's prescription to do so. So you have to get her tested for HW before you can get preventative. I recently had a client family where the pup was quite worried about coming to the man of the house (who had never been rough on the puppy, but was a big guy with a booming voice.) We had much better luck if he would turn away from the pup and take a few steps. His presence facing the pup was just too much. By the next week, he was able to approach the husband with him facing. I might encourage more play than obedience with husband in the beginning. Does Akira like to tug? Oh, and if you are worried about Akira getting bred, the easiest thing is to spay her. And not let her wander. If you don't spay her and she comes in season, you will have to supervise very, very carefully, leash walking only, especially with no fence.


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## NewfoundlandOwner (Dec 22, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> Do you teach attention as a trained behavior? It's really the foundation for everything else you are wanting. Remember that you have a baby puppy, and it's going to take time to get the same kind of attention in public as you can get in the house. When you go to a more challenging environment you need to up the level (and possibly value) of your reinforcement. But this does NOT mean waving treats under her nose when she is distracted. (Ie - rewarding the behavior you DON'T like) Take baby steps. If she gets it wrong, instead of "correcting" (I hate that term), go back and figure out where you asked too much or were unclear. It's not easy for a dog to be at the same time working to get reward and worrying about getting it wrong. Recognize that you probably think a behavior is really trained before it is. Training until response to the cue is almost automatic is key. Create a habit. Create a desire for the dog to get to respond to the cue. For my dogs, the cue means the bar is open. You now have the opportunity to earn treats. I can't get that attitude if I spend a lot of time telling the dog he's wrong. So while my dogs might be interrupted from doing something dangerous, I don't interrupt them from trying to get it right. If there's something going on more exciting than our training, I will manage that situation rather than shoot myself in the foot by asking for something the dog is, at that point, unable to give me. When you are training, take advantage of environmental rewards. If greeting people is more exciting than getting treats, use greeting people as the reward. (People will only pay attention to you when you are sitting - otherwise they go away)


I agree with everyone you've said, particularly in regards to 'corrections'. I have found that training by correction only temporarily suppresses behavior, heightens your dog's anxiety, and destroys the trust bond. I'm not condemning the OP for this - I started out the same way, not understanding the learning model of canines and how much damage I could do to their emotional state. I also sympathize with the OP in the distraction department. My brown Newfie Ozzy is now just under 10 months old, 142 lbs, and an absolute joy in public most of the time. Since it's hot in the summer where I live, I take my dogs to the Petsmart down the road to do our walks and training. The workers there know all my dogs by name now. Ozzy does spectacularly in the obedience department, but he does get distracted by other dogs and sometimes people, and it's difficult to get his attention back. I'm still working on that.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

> Sue Ailsby once taught a llama not to kick, by clicking and moving away from him every time he put his foot down.


This works great for horses! I've used it many times! Horse is afraid of a bag? moves around when you try to hose him off? introduce him to the item of his dislike ie: the bag, or the water spraying his legs. When he stops and stands still, you take the scary object away. This way, he thinks HE is training you. He goes.. "okay, I've figured this person out. If I just stand really still, this thing will go away... works every time." 

He does play with her. Just last night he played tug with her new squeaky toy. She was sad when he left the room and stared hopelessly at the door hoping he would return. 
We have no plans to breed her. So getting her spayed is on our list.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Forgive my absolute ignorance, but what's wrong with llama licks? Are the particularly messy or such? #neverlickedbyallama


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

KBLover said:


> Forgive my absolute ignorance, but what's wrong with llama licks? Are the particularly messy or such? #neverlickedbyallama


Kick. Not lick.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

1. If you can get your husband to just sit on the florr, feed her treats, pet her, and be gentle, that might be enough to re-establish a better relationship. Then, you can go on to obedience training with him. BTW, some of the methods used in karate training with kids - gentle discipline might have an analogy in dog training that your husband can understand. Feel free to ignore if this is old fashioned training 

2. I agree with the problems of an invisible fence: it doesn't stop prey-driven escape, and it doesn't protect from other dogs coming in. However, I understand the cost issue. You might consider putting up a cheap blockade of some sort to dissuade crossing the line - most outside animals would cross a chickenwire or picket fence. And, then you can 'reinforce' it using the invisible fence inside. Costco may sell them, or just the main units for under $50... otherwise, they can easily cost more than $200 at pet stores. 

3. >>> Secondly, she gets the line wrapped into the triangle of the stake, leaving her with 5ft of line, and no access to her water. 
Off the topic - I trained my dog when he was young, similar to what you're doing with Akira. And, he learned to locate a gate in a fence from any location, on his own... Not necessarily a good behavior  I have never tied him, so he doesn't understnad how to unwind himself, even though he is leash-untangle wise. ... I wonder if you could teach Akira to unwind the lead from the stake???


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm not sure. I am still going to get an invisible fence. We also plan to extend the snake fencing across our frontage. I mean a dog could just duck under it if they really wanted too, but I think having a visual would be useful. I just want to have the fence lay at the fence in the front. This would be enough to keep her from going into the road. Anything back behind the house is all woods and trails, she can play in there all she wants.

I've been leaving her outside unleashed. The backyard is huge and she is SUCH a chicken that she won't even leave the decking in the back. Everytime I go to check on her, she is just happily sitting on the deck, or sitting in the wood storage room/access into basement, hoping someone will let her back in. I wouldn't dare leave her out there if I left the house. But I think as long as she can hear our voices inside, it's enough to keep her there because all she wants is to be with us.

I've never had a dog that was like this before. The dogs I've had were always thrilled at just the word "outside" and would stay outside for hours. But Akira, she doesn't want to be outside alone, she just wants to stay glued to my side ALL day. 

You know, she won't even go after little animals like rabbits and squirrells... just the other morning, there was a whole flock of grouse in the woods where she uses the bathroom.... and I thought it would be funny if she would run into them and make them all scatter... but oh my god.. she couldn't have given a rat's a** that they were there. She looked right at them cocked her head as if to say "interesting" then wandered off into the woods, nose down, sniffing all around. Occasionally she would look up at the flock, curiously, and then go on with her thing. Meanwhile, I'm like egging her on to go after them... and she's just looking at me like "mom what is wrong with you?" she just had this beautiful content look about her. She was just fine that they were there, and felt no need to disturb them. Very interesting to watch

I think the problem with the stake is that it's become rusted.... why you would ever invent a product that is clearly to be used outside and not add rust protection is beyond me... 

But she is MISERABLE on the line. She has dug six deep holes in the lawn out of boredom and attempts to escape


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Amaryllis said:


> I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions. "correction" has a specific meaning in training. You sound like you're doing well. Your husband . . . Well, not so much.



I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I am a total newb and trying to learn from all these discussions. What does "corrections" refer to in training, and why should these not be use don puppies? ( just asking to learn, thanks!)


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

In this context, we can sometimes interpret that when someone says "correction," they mean that they are using punishment in the form of yelling "No!", jerking the leash, or striking the dog. We want to avoid these forms of harsh punishment, especially with puppies. The idea of re-instruction, re-directing, or even a gentle reprimand is not the issue. The issue is that the word, "correction" is charged with meaning.

BTW, harsh, physical, or aversive punishment is something that most of us try to avoid. But, punishment, itself, may not be that bad. Telling a dog "No", asking a dog to Sit when he wants to jump, even repeating a cue word until you get the desired level of compliance might all be considered forms of punishment... but most people would not obsrve these actions as harsh.


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you for answering. I am so new to this and read many contradicting theories. I am trying to educate myself as much as possible to do what is best for Lucy. Thank you again.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I like Ian Dunbar's methods: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads ... taken with a grain of salt. His methods have been proven over 30 or more years, forming the base for most of the modern treat-based, positive methods. His warnings about timelines, even though valid, are a bit more alarmist than required. BTW, in contrast to many alternative approaches, Dunbar's methods are specifically designed for the family pet owner. If he wrote it, then you can try it. On the other hand, there may be better methods when going beyond the family pet.

Another excellent method is clicker training... if you like the method, I recommend that you pay someone to help you perfect your timing. Although I don't use a clicker, there are folks on this Forum who are magicians with their dogs.

Another area to look into is Calming Signals. These are subtle body language behaviors catalogued by Turid Rugaas in a book in 1997. Although work on calming signals is not clinically rigorous, when you learn to recognize them, it greatly improves your powers of observation and ability to communicate with your dog. It's almost as good as learning a few words of Chinese so that you can start to communicate with someone who is not a native speaker of English


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## Lucy Brees (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you so much for this info! So much to read!


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

peeing! ugh! Will it ever stop? When I have friends over, she pee's submissively, and I explain to her that she pees, and they're like "oh my dog so and so used to do that, she'll grow out of it" 
Do I have any hope of her ever "growing out of it?" 
She pees submissively to new people and to my husband. She will usually pee in a very subtle submissive way when she and I have our first meet and greet after being apart for a few hours. ie: she's been outside, and I let her in to feed her. The peeing happens when I acknowledge her, and start rubbing her. She doesn't do it to the extent that she does for my husband, ears back, head down, tail tucked, belly on the ground.. she just does a wee little squat and squirts out a bit, as if just to remind me that she still knows I am alpha. 

Then there is the excited pee, which I just work around by making greetings happen outside ect. I feel like this is something I can allow and work around, but it's the constant submissive urinating that is getting old. Like for instance, I cannot answer the door with her because she pees submissively onto the carpet when the newcomer comes in. She does not bark, growl or show any signs of fear.


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

Sounds to me like you being "alpha" scares the piss out of her. They submissive pee because they are intimidated and fearful of you. As I posted a couple of pages back, my pup used to submissive pee when my hubs walked into a room and the peeing made him mad, so he yelled, making our pup even more fearful and causing him to pee MORE. Once I explained why he was peeing to my hubs, my hubs actually TRIED my suggestions and it worked. After about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks of my hubs crouching down, lowering his eyes, and letting Dexter come to him to say hello, we have no more submissive peeing and it's been this way for a month or so. 

Dexter still does the excited pee, though and I've found that the best way to handle this is to take him out to pee before your visitor arrives. With an empty bladder, Dex doesnt do the excited pee.


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

And when I arrive home, I immediately let him out of his crate and we go straight outside. No stops. I wont even rub him until he's peed and empties his bladder. He's so excited to see us that even one little "there's my cutie puppy" will cause him to pee everywhere in sheer delight. lol


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree with this method, in general. I think the submissive peeing will stop as she gets older and gains more confidence. You may be able to move this along a little faster by trying some of what CatDancer suggests, as well as introducing her (socializing) her to a lot more friendly people and more, different situations.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Will do! thanks! I've never even "corrected" her, so I don't know why she would be fearful of me. It's hard to tell if she's doing a submissive pee or a happy to see me pee, like I said before, she doesn't who any other signs of submission when she squats so I really don't know. 

The most interesting thing about her is that she doesn't pee for children when they approach her as children do... running up, arm out, kind of intimidating... yet rather than going on the defensive, she actually gently lays her ears back, lowers he head slightly, and licks their little hands. She KNOWS they're just pups.. it's such a beautiful thing to observe


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Okay question... house training. 
When I was growing up, we never managed to house train our dogs. And as a result, we had damaged floors, and special doors that closed automatically to prevent the dogs from going in there and relieving themselves. This is something I absolutey HATED and am not willing to tolerate now as a grown woman with my own dog. 

To give you an example of the scenario. Akira will stay outside for hours, and as soon as she comes inside, the poops and pees on the floor (always in the same area) She intentionally held it in, JUST so she could go to the bathroom inside... 
This doesn't say to me that she is being "disobedient" I see this as her just not knowing where the right place to use the potty is. I don't scold her when she goes to the bathroom inside, as she is so delicate, I don't want to lower her confidence or have her become fearful of me. So I guess the one problem is that she doesn't know that going to the bathroom inside is wrong in any way. So this brings my first question. Should there be some type of motion brought forth to convey to her that going inside is not okay? I feel like this is a very hard message to convey to an animal, and could be very misinterpreted. I'm afraid I would just leave her feeling confused and upset. 
When she goes to the bathroom outside in her designated area in the woods, I lavish her with praise to let her know that what she is doing is good. 
When she goes to the bathroom inside, I DO NOT give her any attention, good or bad. Usually I put her outside so I can clean it up without her trying to steal my paper towels. If she is inside and calm enough, she will just sit at the far room and watch me clean it up. Again, no attention is given. 

Eventually I'd like a dog that lets me know when they need to go to the bathroom by standing at the door or something. The house trained dogs I've seen all seem to develop their own "sign" which they convey towards their masters that they need to go. Whether that be standing at the door, or dancing around awkwardly, I'm sure Akira will let me know once she understands where she is supposed to go. 

So I am seeking advice and help on teaching her what to do. 

Thank you!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Try putting the poop and urine-soaked paper towels in the outside spot you want her to potty in so she gets the scent that potty belongs out there. It's pretty clear that she CAN control her functions and is eager to please, but somehow got the idea that going inside was what you wanted. If you catch her doing it, do interrupt her--say something cheerful and non-threatening like "oops!" and rush her outside. If she finishes out there, praise like crazy (and maybe a treat if that's meaningful to her). She basically is potty-trained. . .just in the wrong place. Also supervise her completely so she doesn't get the chance to go inside. I think that once she gets the idea about where to go, she'll instantly stop going inside.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Akira223 said:


> Okay question... house training.
> When I was growing up, we never managed to house train our dogs. And as a result, we had damaged floors, and special doors that closed automatically to prevent the dogs from going in there and relieving themselves. This is something I absolutey HATED and am not willing to tolerate now as a grown woman with my own dog.
> 
> To give you an example of the scenario. Akira will stay outside for hours, and as soon as she comes inside, the poops and pees on the floor (always in the same area) She intentionally held it in, JUST so she could go to the bathroom inside...
> ...


The best thing to do is to prevent her being able to go inside. This requires a lot of focus and attention but basically? On a leash or with your eyes on her, to run her outside, or in a crate. Once she starts habitually thinking inside is the place to go (where you are, now) you've got to break that association. If you have to stay out there with her for four hours, or run her inside and crate her and take her back out 15 minutes later, all day long before she caves and goes outside... that's what it's going to take. When she does - yeah, praise like wild. 

At this stage, seriously - it's about preventing bad behaviour and reenforcing the good, far more than training. With anything.


Fortunately it doesn't take too long, since she's still young. Also really, and I mean REALLY, clean the heck out of your floors.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Will do. 

Now, she resides in the basement, she has a giant room all to herself, however the floor is not finished. It's sort of a smooth cement or something. I guess it's what would be under carpet or hardwood. 
The urine has stained the "concrete" and the smell pretty much remains. She still goes to the bathroom in the same spot every time.

Any special product suggestions to get the smell and or stains out?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think that any of the enzyme pet odor cleaners would work for the odor if you soaked it well enough. The stains might stay, though. . .even water leaves stains on cement.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Akira223 said:


> Will do.
> 
> Now, she resides in the basement, she has a giant room all to herself, however the floor is not finished. It's sort of a smooth cement or something. I guess it's what would be under carpet or hardwood.
> The urine has stained the "concrete" and the smell pretty much remains. She still goes to the bathroom in the same spot every time.
> ...



I used Simple Solution (I think that's what it's called - don't have the bottle handy right now, I know I ordered it from Petsmart) when Wally regressed when we lived in the temporary housing. Cleaned it right up, even if it dried overnight and what not.

Other than that, I just use the vinegar+water+baking soda trick. If the urine can seep through, I would think the cleaning solution (either the storebought or homebrew) would too.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

has she been to the vet to rule out a uti?


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