# Bleeding Paws



## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Does anyone know what to do about this? I put Lucas in the bathroom when we go somewhere (usually only a max of a half hour gone) and he scratches at the door. Didn't really bother me other than him scratching off the paint a little on the bottom at first. Then today when I came home and went to let him out there was blood all on the floor where he scratches at the door and down onto the floor. I look at his paws and on both of his front paws he scratched so much that he rubbed a small spot hairless and raw until it was bleeding. Not horribly because it wasn't dripping but it was still bleeding. Any tips on this because I don't want him to get hurt or get scars from doing this all the time. Yes I cleaned the wounds.


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## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

A friend got a piece of lucite and had it attached to all the areas in her house that her dogs scratched and chewed.

It saved the woodwork and the dogs paws and teeth.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Does it make him not want to paw at it because he rubs it raw.


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## myahele (Nov 6, 2010)

I had a similar situation happen to me a few weeks ago, but my pup broke his nail and had it surgically removed.

I suggest that you invest in a crate to put him in or put something in the wall like double-sided tape or something that may deter him from scratching the door.

In the meanwhile I suggest putting antibiotic on the paws and wrapping it up with gauze/ bandage.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

I've already taken care of his little raw spots and he does the same thing in the crate but it's worse because the bars get in-between his toes so the bathroom does less damage to him. Also in his crate he will damage his teeth.


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

I have no experience with SA in a dog, but maybe he could be developing some of this behavior because of it? Just a shot in the dark. Not sure I've read your other posts about him...

However, it sounds like he is anxious regardless of having SA or not. I think you should try some of these exercises to help him get accustomed to being locked up. 

1. Have you tried putting a stuffed, frozen Kong with him to keep him busy? This will help keep his mind on the toy and not on trying to escape. Stuffed kongs will also let him chew a lot and kind of get it out of his system.

2. Try putting him in the bathroom or crate and close the door, now immediately reopen it and let him out. Do this 20 times throughout the day and then leave him in there 3 seconds, then open it. Repeat this while slowly getting him used to being in there longer and longer. He'll eventually learn that even if he is getting locked in, he will be let out again. 

3. Excercise him or do some shaping training with him before leaving him alone. Take him out for a walk or a romp around the yard, nothing forced because he is still a growing puppy, but enough to tire him out. Then take him inside and do some clicker work or some basic obedience work. This will tire out his mind and body. Put him in the nbathroom or crate with his stuffed kong and then leave for 10 minutes and come back. He might be so tired from playing, training, then eating to just end up konked out. 


Not sure what you've tried so far but these are what I think would help the most. He's pawing the door because he's anxious and you basically need to drain him of energy (so to speak) and then slowly introduce him to being alone for longer and longer periods of time.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Apparently it didn't go through when I replied.....................Thank you very much for this good advice! I can always give good advice to someone else but I can never give it to myself lol. I will try those and see if it works. Only reason why I'm a little confused is because he has been fine for that length before or even longer (I always give him a bone and some toys and stuff) either alone or with Bean (Bean is over a year old now and knows how to behave in the cage that's why I put him in with him to teach him it was ok when we left). I think what might have caused it being bad this time was he was in with my other dog Moo who is 8 months old and I thought she was ok when we left, but I guess she gets anxious a little and maybe she egged him on in a way. I know that he still gets a little whiny so I bet that she heard him whining and so she started then they fed off of each other until he was freaking out trying to dig through the door. Apparently he had to be really anxious to do that until he bled. He was quiet when I came home though and he used to start up with the whining when we got home, but lately he has been quiet (we would just stand by the door and wait for him to settle before letting him out).


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Nil has some good suggestions. It is important to wear him out, etc.

I have some experience with anxiety (separation and general), so the best thing you cando for him at this young age is work on making him okay on his own. Do this by leaving him for a little bit at a time (like Nil suggested). Also, when he learns "stay" put him in a stay in one room and make him stay there while you go to another room. Make sure that all of your comings and goings are very low key...don't get overly excited about it.

Also, remember that he is only 3 months old, so he is still very young. Much of this behavior is puppy, but you do need to work on it. Exercise and mental stimulation is super important. If you choose to keep shutting him in the bathroom, give him a puzzle toy to work out while you are gone.

I would go back to crate training...make him comfy there and then work your way up. Make him comfy there by putting him in while he can see you, give him super yummy treats, etc. Leave him there for a little while and let him out. Play crate games with him. Feed him there (if he will eat there).

Have you tried taping him while you are gone? See what he actually does?


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

I definitely understand that puppies freak out when people leave until they get used to it. I have had many dogs throughout my life. I tried giving him a frozen kong and exercising him before I had to leave. I did practice with the short amount of time in and then letting him out so he would learn it's not permanent and he isn't going to die if he is in there alone. This is the result even after being tired and having a frozen kong. (He isn't going to just get fixed in one day and I have to go sometimes and I'm not going to let him run about in the house and possibly have something bad happen to him.)


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

The something bad happening to him IS happening. Poor kid. To do that much damage means he was freaking out. These things don't get better without a lot of work and patience. 

I would immediately get to work on a desensitization protocol, crate him with the other dogs crated nearby and start doing short leavings and returns where he can see you coming and going and otherwise ignoring him on exit and entry. There's a good protocol in the Patricia McConnell book "I'll be Home Soon". 

Get yourself a DAP diffuser and plug it in somewhere close to the crate, give him something that smells like YOU as well.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree with Cracker. The protocol in McConnel's book is very good. The DAP diffuser is also good, but make sure that if you have a large space you get more than one diffuser.

When I read your first post, I had no idea how bad it really was. It looks as if he is very upset when you leave, so it is very important that you start to work on it ASAP. 

When you come back, has he touched the Kong or is it untouched? 

I am dealing with a dog with anxiety when she is alone. We have built her up to being okay with being alone for about 3 hours, but that did not happen overnight. It is a lot of work, we have a lot of setbacks and it is slow going. We have had her for nearly 9 months now, so it has been a lot of work.

When you say you practiced leaving him alone, how many times? How often? Does he have any access to the other dogs when he is home? Do you leave anything on for him? (Radio, etc.) What is in the bathroom with him?

I know it is a lot of questions, but I want to get a clear picture of what is happening when he is alone.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

I was doing that with him with the other dogs and I know that's what I need to do I just want to know if there is anything I can do to keep him from getting hurt when I have to leave before he is done learning it's ok. I tried duct taping socks onto his paws this last time and he took them off and scratched anyway. I wish he would stop long enough for it to heal because it takes almost no scratching to get it to be like that. I am frustrated because I wish he would stop when it hurts because I know that can't feel good. I think I will start just leaving him out in the house when I go until he learns that it is ok to be confined when I leave. Then again if he doesn't do anything bad when I leave him in just the house then I won't put him in a cage unless necessary other than just to train him so when I do need to put him in the cage he doesn't freak out really bad. I feel so bad for him and I wish he wouldn't hurt himself. It really isn't that much damage it's just as bad as a minor scrape but it just bleeds for a long time because he never lets it rest until I get home.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

RubyFeuer said:


> I was doing that with him with the other dogs and I know that's what I need to do I just want to know if there is anything I can do to keep him from getting hurt when I have to leave before he is done learning it's ok. I tried duct taping socks onto his paws this last time and he took them off and scratched anyway. I wish he would stop long enough for it to heal because it takes almost no scratching to get it to be like that. I am frustrated because I wish he would stop when it hurts because I know that can't feel good. I think I will start just leaving him out in the house when I go until he learns that it is ok to be confined when I leave. Then again if he doesn't do anything bad when I leave him in just the house then I won't put him in a cage unless necessary other than just to train him so when I do need to put him in the cage he doesn't freak out really bad. I feel so bad for him and I wish he wouldn't hurt himself. It really isn't that much damage it's just as bad as a minor scrape but it just bleeds for a long time because he never lets it rest until I get home.


I think you are missing the bigger picture--right now, in the immediate, there is not much you can do to make him okay with being alone. And, in my opinion, giving a three month old puppy the run of the house is not a good idea...regardless of what his underlying issues are.

And he doesn't stop when it hurts because he doesn't rationalize like that. He knows you left, you went out that door and he will come to get you. Gracie chewed a bald spot on her foot and peed all over herself each time she was left alone. She also drooled all over everything...and I really think if she could have, she would have stopped and been like "this isn't good, I should stop" but she couldn't. The panic overtook her and she couldn't think about anything but being alone.

Can you give me a good idea of what his schedule looks like each day?


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

Poor Lucas!

If you did all that then I would definitely lean more towards an SA type situation, but again, I have no experience with that. However, at least now you know and considering he is so young you can definitely make some plans in order to try and help him out with this.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

I don't expect an overnight fix, so don't get that idea. I've dealt with my other dogs and their separation anxiety before, but it's just never been to the extent that they hurt themselves, although I can see why he would in a panic. We've been separation training him since he was 9 weeks old, very small steps (in a cage with us in view) and he'd still freak out. He's had so small results since then (been at it for about 6 weeks now) that it's becoming worrisome. And in some ways he's just gotten worse (such as the clawing at the door until he bleeds), urinated and defecated (and not just a little bit, and this is after he's been walked and emptied), and just baffled us with how he gets out of some of the containers. We've left him with our other dogs, whom he likes, and left him alone, but that doesn't help.

We're going to continue with the separation training, of course, and we'll try one of those pheromone plug-ins.

As for his schedule:

0600 : Wakes us up to take him outside
0645 : Wakes us up to eat/for attention (Also is when we wake up so it's ok)
0745 : Walk/husband leaves
0800 - 1100 : On and off obedience training/potty walks whenever he needs it
1100 : Feeding
1145 : Husband home from work for lunch, general puppy freak out over attention (Do not reinforce freak out for attention, waits until calmed down completely until he says hi to them)
1230 : Walked
1230 - 1500 : Nap time
1500 : Walk / Play
1600 : Husband home from work for the day, puppy freak out again
1630 - 1730 : Play time
1730 : Errands
1800 - 1830: Back from errands, clean up any mess he made / sanitize raw skin
1830 : Dinner (for all)
1900 : Free time (depends on their mood for the night)
2000 : Walk/Run
2200 : Sleep

Hopefully that's enough detail for his daily schedule for ya ^^


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Looks like he is on a good schedule and is getting exercise, etc.

Is the most he is alone 30 minutes at a time?

And, if I read correctly, he was okay being alone at first and then he wasn't? That does indicate that something happened in that time you were gone...I do advice taping him to see what he does while you are gone. Even if it is for a few minutes.

The best advice I can give you is to go slowly and don't expect miracles overnight (as you already know). I expected too much from the beginning and ended up having numerous freakouts of my own. Take small victories as they come. 

You may want to start ignoring him a little while you are at home. Get hom to realize that just because humans are there doesn't mean that humans will touch/pet/etc. Obviously you want to train, etc., but try to distance yourself in terms of hugging, talking, etc. If he comes to you for attention, don't give it to him. That will start to give hime a little of the "hey...I don't need people to be okay" thing.

Do you practice Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) at all? That can help, too. If you don't, you can find a sticky on the forum.

You can also try giving supplements that have tryptophan in them. Sometimes that calms them a little. And whenever you are going to leave, I would put him wherever he is going to be (bathroom, crate, etc.) at least ten minutes before you go and you need ot actively ignore him during that time. Try to ignore him for ten minutes when you come home as well.

Right now the bathroom doesn't seem to be the safest place for him. By the looks of the door and the floor, he did some real harm to himself and your home. Is there any other puppy proofed place in your home?


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## Nil (Oct 25, 2007)

RubyFeuer said:


> I don't expect an overnight fix, so don't get that idea. I've dealt with my other dogs and their separation anxiety before, but it's just never been to the extent that they hurt themselves, although I can see why he would in a panic.


I understand. It can take a long time to fix something, it just struck me kind of odd that he continued the same behavior (maybe worse this time?) even after having been excercised heavily with a kong. To me, I would assume a 3 month old puppy to have just konked out completely. I'm glad you're taking the time to help him though, not that you wouldn't, but it speaks volumes.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

On an average day, he's home alone for 30 minutes at a time. Barring certain circumstances, we try to come home at least every 30 minutes to tell him "Hey, your pack is OK, calm down." But there's some times where it just can't/doesn't happen, hard as we try.

And sorry for the mistake, he was never OK alone. Was trying to explain that he has always had severe problems with separation, even when we were in sight.

We already ignore him (Not a lot, but we don't pet him every time he comes up to us for attention) when we are home, and I think we do pretty good on the NILIF as well.

As for the setting him up where he'll be 10 minutes in advance of leaving, we've been doing that for the past 4 weeks or so, ever since we realized this was a serious problem. We've left him in there for 10 minutes afterwords as well, but with him hurting himself I don't feel comfortable at this time with doing that. When we can finally find someplace he can't escape/damage that's better than the bathroom we'll start up again.

And that should also answer the last one, military houses weren't built all that well, so the bathroom is actually the safest until we either get him a crate (Will be happening on Friday at the latest) hopefully one without many bars so he doesn't cut in between his toes with the digging at the gate. Not to worried about the home damage, paint is cheap, but I can't get another Lucas at Lowes.


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## Active Dog (Jan 18, 2010)

While I am not sure Miko has SA he may have a slight version of it. About a week after we got him he started chewing on his crate around the door. He drooled so much he would come out of the crate wet. He never pooped or peed or hurt himself but luckily he is very food driven and I am able to occupy him with food for a while. I will give him all sorts of nummy treats to make him enjoy his alone time. 

I have to admit though I did not take it slow =/ I had to work and had to place him in the crate for up to 5 hours 4 days out of the week. We got him some "calming" treats, a DAP collar, and frozen can food in a kong. I also rubbed apple cider vinegar on the areas he was chewing to discourage him from chewing on it. Before I go to work I also take them on a hour long bikeride/walk to calm them down. I do this RIGHT BEFORE I leave. I literally walk in feed them prepare him for his alone time, gather my things and leave. This seems to work for us, and he hasn't eaten his way out of the crate yet! *knock on wood*

Oh I also forgot to add that I read somewhere that the first 30 mins of when you leave is the worst. That is when they panic the most, I don't remember where I read this but I can see why this might be true.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ya we are going to pick up some plug ins and some collars for him to see if it helps any until he is trained. If he does chew at something out of anxiety he doesn't care what I put on there he will chew anyway. Thankfully he doesn't chew anymore out of anxiety. I think between pawing at stuff and chewing on things pawing is easier to stop. I hope anyway lol. I just want him to stop getting so stressed and hurting himself. I know that he will over time I just feel bad for him in the meanwhile.


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## dantero (Feb 2, 2011)

RubyFeuer said:


> and just baffled us with how he gets out of some of the containers.


This may be part of the problem. If he has success at getting out once, he'll try twice as hard the next time. And if he's successful again, it will just reinforce that if he just tries hard enough, or looks for a weak spot long enough, he can get out of whatever you put him in. Which can become a very vicious cycle very fast. It's like letting the puppy out of a crate because it's screaming, do it a few time and they learn if they scream long enough, you will let them out, instead of learning the only way they get out is if they are quiet.

My dogs have worn their nails down to the quick doing other things, so I know how easy it is to make it look like someone was slaughtered when it really was actually pretty minor, if his nails are like this now all the time the amount of fighting to get out that he's doing may not be as much/bad as it looks. 

I would definitely second the crate suggestions. You can always cover the door with a thin sheet of plywood (put it on the outside of the door) to keep his paws from going through the grate if he scratches. A couple nuts, bolts and large washers will let you attach it pretty easily. I also find it's much easier to acclimate a puppy to a crate with me out of sight, they tend to settle down faster then if they can see me. Even better if there is a radio on so they can't hear me either. Crating your other dog next to him should also help, since he'll have company.

Final thought, never let him out when he's throwing a fit, no matter how tempting it is. Wait until he's calmed down, then let him out. It may take some reps, but it will help reinforce the correct behavior.


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## RubyFeuer (Mar 30, 2010)

I have never let him out when he was fitting I wait until he calms down before I do because I know that it will just make it worse. I agree though that it looks waaaaaaaaaay worse than it is just because it spreads through their fur and get all over the place. All it is is just a little raw spot on the side of the same toe on both feet. It's not even his nail which is good. I do definitely see, now, what caused him to escalate so quickly because he thought he could get out because he has escaped before when we were gone so if he tried hard enough then he could get out. He doesn't understand that he can't get out of the bathroom. Hopefully the process moves pretty fast. I think it will take a while though anyway because he is very, very smart (I can already walk him without a leash and he stays right by me even if there are other dogs. If he sees something and tries to take it all it takes is a short AH and he's like "oh ok" and immediately stops and continues to walk next to me) and also very stubborn. So I can see how it would take awhile to change something that he "knows will work every time." I will definitely work on it many times a day and wean him up to more and more time until it is at about 45mins and still continue until it is much longer.


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