# Why feeding Dogs eggs and cheese is the wrong thing to do.



## puppychow49

Recently I discovered this webforum. I had found numerous articles online about feeding Dogs eggs, and cheese. These articles had been promoting feeding Dogs eggs, and cheese. Stating that eggs and cheese are good for a dogs health. That eggs and cheese are good for a dogs Diet. This is actually incorrect.

Eggs leave a Dog starving. Cheese leave Dogs fat, ugly, and lethargic.

Eggs are for beings that feed themselfs. Not for Dogs.

Eggs starve dogs and deprive them of healthy stool circulation. Dogs need Dry food and water. Along with the occasional wet food for dogs.

Cheese and Eggs are horrible for Dogs, as Dogs do not have a need for Dairy Products.

Owners of pets who abuse their Dogs are commiting a crime. And should be arrested.

The bottom line is if you want to persist in feeding your Dog Eggs, and Cheese, then your are incapable of owning a Dog.

A Dogs diet must be strictly controlled by the owner. 

If a dog isnt eating at first, you must persist. A dog can only have a stable diet with Dog Food. It has been being made for centuries.


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## RonE

Interesting first post. I'm not sure I've seen eggs referred to as dairy before. Cows and chickens will both be surprised to hear that.



> A dog can only have a stable diet with Dog Food. It has been being made for centuries.


Ah, yes, the elusive 19th century commercial dog food. 

You might as well get your whole agenda out on the table early.


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## FourIsCompany

RonE said:


> Cows and chickens will both be surprised to hear that.


 

I suppose if you fed your dog exclusively eggs and cheese, you'd have a starving, fat, confused ugly, lethargic dog (although I'm not sure what would make them ugly...) 

Interesting post, puppychow.


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## Britt Caleb & Enzo

I'm pretty sure no one here feeds their dogs exclusively cheese and eggs. Just saying...


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## BoxMeIn21

This is the best thread EVER!



puppychow49 said:


> The bottom line is if you want to persist in feeding your Dog Eggs, and Cheese, then your are incapable of owning a Dog.


I think this is going to be my new siggie.


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## Pai

This is almost as good as the post I read on another board by someone who swore that milk and fish was toxic to cats. =P


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## BoxMeIn21

Pai said:


> This is almost as good as the post I read on another board by someone who swore that milk and fish was toxic to cats. =P


ROFLMAO! That's rich.


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## winniec777

Then I am most incapable of owning a dog.  My dog got both eggs and cheese this morning and a few toast crumbs - oh my! Guess I better get ready for the big house, see, cuz the coppers are a-comin' to get me!


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## Inga

*This guy eats eggs and cheese and I certainly don't think he is fat, or ugly. He is NOT starving either, though he would love to have everyone believe that. Eggs and Cheese are treats, not the entirety of his or my other boys diet. I would agree that giving them exclusively eggs and cheese would not be a good thing.*


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## FourIsCompany

winniec777 said:


> Then I am most incapable of owning a dog.


I agree. Please send your dog to me immediately so *I* can feed him eggs and cheese.  All day long! Eggs and cheese. La-ti-da


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## Renoman

Can't wait to hear more. 


This is going to be good...........


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## winniec777

FourIsCompany said:


> I agree. Please send your dog to me immediately so *I* can feed him eggs and cheese.  All day long! Eggs and cheese. La-ti-da


Just tell me what to put on the Fedex label! All these eggs and cheese are putting too big of a dent in my wallet. Good luck to you with my cheese-n-egg eating dog. You better buy it by the truckload, baby! Here she comes....

P.S. please make sure it's Hoffmans super sharp cheddar and only free range eggs -- Poca is a picky eater. La-ti-da!!

To Puppychow49: On the off chance that you are a serious poster with good intentions, I'll say that your concern for what dogs eat is admirable and that every single person on this forum shares that concern. Many dogs are fed an unhealthy amount of food and often the wrong kind. In my experience, though, eggs and cheese given as a sometimes treat are not dangerous or the road to ruin. If you'll read more of the threads in the forum you'll find a lot of very knowledgeable people who can offer good advice on what to feed. I've benefited a lot from their advice.

Whew. It's hard listening to my better angels. Now I'm off to buy stock in Velveeta, the King of Cheeses, it melts, it freezes but, oy, what it does to your colon!


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## BoxMeIn21

Inga said:


> *This guy eats eggs and cheese and I certainly don't think he is fat, or ugly. He is NOT starving either, though he would love to have everyone believe that. Eggs and Cheese are treats, not the entirety of his or my other boys diet. I would agree that giving them exclusively eggs and cheese would not be a good thing.*


This is just criminal. Inga, how do you sleep at night?


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## DobManiac

puppychow49 said:


> Eggs leave a Dog starving. Cheese leave Dogs fat, ugly, and lethargic.


I guess it's good then that I feed both eggs and cheese, that way will have some sort of balance. I must be getting it just right cause there are no fat or starving dogs around here.


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## LeRoymydog

I know I can't feed LeRoy cheese cuz it makes him... gassy. I wouldn't say fat or ugly. Just his green fog he leaves is ugly.


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## Donna5503

My dog loves eggs & cheese & cream cheese & egg salad with mayo!

Of course, I don't make a meal out of these items. But they are better treats than those processed dog treats!.....I bought a bag once....the one that the dog in the commercial says....."Bacon, Bacon....gimmee, gimmee, gimmee...I'd get it myself, but I have no thumbs" (the commercial got to me!)....when I opened the bag my dog ran away....he knew! What junk...it went right in the garbage!

So back to this post.....a little variety of human food is very good for dogs ---(not junk food) --- I've had dogs my whole life and they all ate human food & dog food and they all lived full, happy lives!


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## RonE

I still haven't gotten past the notion of feeding dogs cow eggs.

Or of two centuries of kibble.


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## alphadoginthehouse

This has to be the funniest post I have read yet.  Mine get eggs as a treat...they love them. Cheese too. Guess I better make plans for their care cuz I'm off to the Big House! The OP has to be trolling...?


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## FourIsCompany

Does feeding my dogs Cream Cheese make me a worthless owner, too?


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## Curbside Prophet

Al Gore just read this thread, and he'll soon be proposing a carbon tax for our dogs. Good job guys!


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## Squeeker

OMG, this is my favourite thread ever! Dude, if you are going to post unproven claims, at LEAST correct your grammar!



> Eggs leave a Dog starving.


Umm... did you know that eggs are in most dry dog foods?



> Eggs are for beings that feed themselfs. Not for Dogs.


I don't USUALLY feed my dog with silverware, like a toddler... but maybe I'm weird?



> Eggs starve dogs and deprive them of healthy stool circulation.


I have heard about blood circulation, and circulation in the lymphatic system, and there's always spinal fluid circulation... but this is the first time I have heard of the stool circulatory system! Circulating stool sounds particularly scary to me...



> It has been being made for centuries.


ROFL @ 17th century dog food...


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## FilleBelle

RonE said:


> Interesting first post. I'm not sure I've seen eggs referred to as dairy before. Cows and chickens will both be surprised to hear that.


I've been a vegetarian since I was eight. Frequently, when I tell people about this dietary choice, they ask, "Do you eat chicken?" 

Perhaps the idea that chicken is a dairy product is more pervasive than you thought.


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## FourIsCompany

FilleBelle said:


> I've been a vegetarian since I was eight. Frequently, when I tell people about this dietary choice, they ask, "Do you eat chicken?"
> 
> Perhaps the idea that chicken is a dairy product is more pervasive than you thought.


Best statement yet! LOL Very witty! I guess that's what people mean when they say, "I'm a vegetarian, but I eat chicken and fish". LOL Did you know that fish is also a dairy? 

"17th century dog food" gets honorable mention. Too funny!


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## WoodLark

This is almost as good as the story that circulated a few years ago that the fastest way (for humans) to lose weight is to eat nothing but hard boiled eggs, The theory was that it takes more calories to digest a hard boiled egg than the egg contains...R_I_G_H_T! 

My dogs and I all love eggs and cheese. The dogs at least are not fat, lethargic and ugly (I won't discuss my condition; I might be biased).


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## Independent George

I can eat fifty egg.


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## alphadoginthehouse

Independent George said:


> I can eat fifty egg.


HaHa...she says with tears streaming down her face!


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## flipgirl

Didn't the op say you should be arrested? All you people should go to jail for feeding your dog and for that matter, yourselfs, eggs and cheese. And dog food has not been around for centuries, where are you from OP? Apparently, kibble grew on trees or fell from the sky and then there was Alpo. And God was happy.


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## alphadoginthehouse

flipgirl said:


> Didn't the op say you should be arrested? All you people should go to jail for feeding your dog and for that matter, yourselfs, eggs and cheese. And dog food has not been around for centuries, where are you from OP? Apparently, kibble grew on trees or fell from the sky and then there was Alpo. And God was happy.


Again, ha ha..she says as her co-workers wonder what has her laughing so hard she is crying! This has to be the most entertaining thread ever.


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## BigBlackDogGal

Phew... Sorry it took me so long but I've been at the vets office. My dog ate a piece of cheese and came down with a serious case of the uglies! He also seemed to be getting fat (a known side effect of cheese) so the vet recommended I give him some eggs to starve him down to the proper size. 

Take a good look: this is the face of a cheese eater. Oh the humanity!


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## flipgirl

...and then came the Big Black Dog with such an adorable face that dogs could not resist taking a bite of the egg and a sliver of cheese....and hence, original sin was born..any dogs who ate eggs starved to death and any dogs who ate cheese became so fat they burst ...and that's how life on Earth began....And from then on, God ruled that dogs with shiny coats and healthy body conditions should be banished from heaven and sent to Lucifer, the adorable Big Black Dog. And there, these dogs, excommunicated from Paradise, would be forced to eat eggs and cheese for the rest of their afterlives. Deliver them from eggs and cheese....


I guess I'd be banished to doggie hell because I could eat cheese omelettes forever. I think I'll have to call Animal Control so they can go door to door to make sure no one is feeding their dogs eggs and cheese. Owners should be sent to prison and their dogs left on the streets to eat garbage and crap.


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## alphadoginthehouse

Oh, the inhumanity of it all...everyone on DF will probably be arrested for animal abuse...


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## WoodLark

"Even if the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas! "

The voices aren't real?


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## Cheetah

I could be mistaken, but I don't think commercial dog food has been around for ONE century, let alone multiple centuries, and dogs ate table scraps etc. before that. I'm also pretty sure those table scraps included bits of eggs and cheese. Where the heck are you getting your info?

I really think you need to take a look at the food pyramid. Note where eggs are located:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/Fpyr/pmap.htm
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/healthtool-food-pyramid

Eggs are in the MEAT group, have an incredible amount of protein, and are very digestible. Therefore, supplementing a dog's diet with them is normally considered a GOOD thing. The only way it would be bad is if an individual dog has an intolerance to eggs. I give my dogs eggs regularly along with their normal food. They also get cheese on occasion as a treat. The vet says they're both perfectly healthy.


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## Bonnie Napholc

So funny....got a good laugh all thanks he he


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## Lostball

Have any of you ever fed your dogs oatmeal? I have been reading on the internet that it is supposed to be good for them. I also understand that corn and wheat products are bad for the dog. 
We give our Callie her vitamins in a small piece of cheese, otherwise she will not take them. Excellent vitamins as well and they are Cataplex E which gets rid of free radicals in their body; Arginex for kidney cleansing and Cyruta Plus for strengthening the capillary walls. She is doing real well with them. We also have been feeding Wellness and Solid Gold.


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## LadyD

I just took my Boston to the vet today. She said that he was in exellent health. She also said that 2 eggs per week per 25 lbs of body weight was A-OK. I also give him a pinch of shredded cheese occasionally on his dry dog food. I wonder if she'll turn me in to the dog food police?  Gotta go, somebody banging on my door with a battering ram. 

LMAO You guys are nuts!!! Thanks for the good laugh! ;o)


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## alphadoginthehouse

Lady D...welcome to the warped minds of some of the members of DF! I kept waiting for the police to arrest me when I gave my mutts scrambled eggs Sat night! 

BTW...the OP has not posted to this forum since this thread. Guess he/she didn't like the responses...poor baby!


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## flipgirl

The egg and cheese police got him....then in the box, he ate some cheese and fed his dog eggs....he spontaneously burst and his dog disintegrated.


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## RonE

alphadoginthehouse said:


> BTW...the OP has not posted to this forum since this thread. Guess he/she didn't like the responses...poor baby!


The OP hasn't evev visited since the first post. I guess it wwas just a quick drive-by.


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## 4lilmunchkins

Wow....totally speechless here....lol


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## KBLover

RonE said:


> I still haven't gotten past the notion of feeding dogs cow eggs.
> 
> Or of two centuries of kibble.


Seriously, I mean, if s/he is going to try to make a slanted point, at least make it believable.

I'm not animal guru, but even I (and probably most 4 year olds) know cows don't lay eggs (and we surely don't eat them. Eating mammal eggs - considering where the "egg" is in a mammal...yeah...).

200 years of dog food? Heh. Isn't dog food a 1940's invention? Something about post-war leftovers or something (gee, how appetizing - thank goodness we've come a long way from that *hugs his Innova bag*)


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## Pai

KBLover said:


> 200 years of dog food? Heh. Isn't dog food a 1940's invention? Something about post-war leftovers or something (gee, how appetizing - thank goodness we've come a long way from that *hugs his Innova bag*)


In reading some antique dog books lately, I came upon this paragraph talking about 'biscuits' (which were basically big bricks of kibble made with dry meat and such, not a milkbone like today):










That was written in 1913. So back in the day, people _knew_ full well that quality ingredients and meat was best. But then the dog food companies managed to convince people the opposite was true, and that their cheapo kibble made with crap was 'scientifically' better somehow and that whole ingredients (which they called 'people food') was somehow bad for dogs. And it took like 50 years before more pet folks started realizing what a scam it was.


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## Willowy

And I think (from reading a dog book from the 40s that was at my grandma's house) that back then, biscuits were meant to be a supplement for raw meat, not to be fed alone.


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## RonE

I can't imagine people fed their household dogs raw meat in 1940.

We got the first dog I remember in about 1956. She, and the next dog, ate commercial dogfood and it wasn't anything you'd want to feed your dogs. I remember Gravy Train (add water and it makes it's own gravy!) and Gainesburgers. Dogs ate a lot of table scraps and, since we ate very little processed, refined food, it probably wasn't such a bad thing.

The beagle ate basically anything that would stand still for a moment and a few things that didn't. I think he got a raw egg once-a-week for his coat which is probably why he died young at age 14, though he was neither fat nor ugly.

Just very loud.


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## Willowy

RonE said:


> I can't imagine people fed their household dogs raw meat in 1940.


I can't guarantee anything, being that it was 40 years before I was born, but I think they must have. From what I've read and talking to older relatives, anyway. The butchers sold the meat scraps no humans wanted for dog food, and ground horse meat comes up a lot in the conversations. There was the war going on in 1940, and good meat was rationed, but (if people had pets at all) I'm sure the scrap meat was still sold cheap. Table scraps were probably more common, but I do think raw meat was fed to most pets at least sometimes.

My mom (born in 1955) says that her dog ate something out of a can, and it tasted bad (she knows because she thought it was hash and ate some once). She doesn't remember more than that, LOL. My dad (born in 1950) doesn't remember what his childhood dog ate at all---typical boy! Except he says she did get a raw egg once a week.


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## poodleholic

RonE said:


> I still haven't gotten past the notion of feeding dogs cow eggs.
> 
> Or of two centuries of kibble.




ROFLMAO! 

Guess I don't deserve to own a dog cuz mine get omelettes w/cheese and spinach, too! LOL


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## Laurelin

Oops, I just fed my dog cheese.


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## alphadoginthehouse

This thread is so dadburn funny! I thought about giving mine eggs on Sun but was afraid the Dog Cheese & Egg Police would find me!


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## flipgirl

The only thing giving cheese to your dog will cause is a begging dog...whenever I have cheese, my dog is stuck to my leg looking up at me with those puppy dog eyes....

I wonder why someone would go through the trouble of registering and create one thread and leave.


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## Pai

flipgirl said:


> I wonder why someone would go through the trouble of registering and create one thread and leave.


Definition of a troll, right there. They just say things to stir things up, they don't really care about having a conversation.


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## alphadoginthehouse

flipgirl said:


> I wonder why someone would go through the trouble of registering and create one thread and leave.


Ah, but this has been of one of the more interesting ones "trolled".


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## flipgirl

alphadoginthehouse said:


> Ah, but this has been of one of the more interesting ones "trolled".


Yes I agree! We had 'ourselfs' a good laugh didn't we? We learned a lot too, cows lay eggs, eggs make us starve 'ourselfs' and cheese makes us fat. 

Maybe our troll thinks chickens have milk. Or they make cheese.


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## tw1n

I gave my two puppies some eggs mixed in with their dinner last night and they pooped all over my kitchen...

must be karma...


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## Foyerhawk

Ah, nearly a dozen years of egg eating sure has done a number on this guy


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## alphadoginthehouse

Foyerhawk said:


> Ah, nearly a dozen years of egg eating sure has done a number on this guy


Yeh, he's so ugly and fat!


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## Foyerhawk

Oh yeah! For sure! Ugly fatness!


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## jesirose

I have to say a lot of the very elderly people I meet with dogs feed exclusively table scraps or home-cooked meals for their dogs. 

Sadie gets cheese, but only on a cheese burger  and she gets eggs when I make them for my breakfast occasionally. She's hardly fat or ugly.


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## KittyKittyfer

i fed my dog cheese while reading this post.

----IN YOUR FACE. :wink:


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## sassafras

RonE said:


> Interesting first post. I'm not sure I've seen eggs referred to as dairy before. Cows and chickens will both be surprised to hear that.


So, I know this thread is wicked old, but since it's been resurrected anyway... 

My husband is severely allergic to dairy. Upon hearing this, the most common question people almost immediately ask me is "can he eat eggs?!" It's always completely weirded me out, but seriously probably 30-40% of the time people ask that. *shakes head*


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## Firem4nJoe

> I still haven't gotten past the notion of feeding dogs cow eggs.
> Or of two centuries of kibble.


Neither have I.
RonE I do believe you are my favourite person on this forum.
I guess we better tell the National Parks & Wildlife service to send people out to make sure the wild Dingos aren't eating any Goanna or Emu eggs.
Or is it just the cow eggs we need to steer clear of? Oh and we better make sure the wolves at the Zoo are getting the kibble they've naturally fed on the past few hundred years instead this new fashioned raw meat business.


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## Nargle

I know this is a silly thread that's very old, but I'm curious... Isn't egg yolk to chicks as milk is to calves? An unfertilized egg certainly doesn't have any meat in it. Why wouldn't it be considered dairy? I hope I don't sound too stupid here.


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## RonE

By definition, dairy products are derived from milk. Milk comes from mammals. (I'm from Wisconsin. I was born knowing that.)*

I think what confuses people is that eggs are usually sold in the dairy section of the supermarket. I have long suspected that pizza and ice cream are closely related.

Also, brandy and olives.

(I can't believe the op didn't stick around after the enthusiastic welcome. What a one-hit wonder!)

* On further consideration, I guess, on some level, all mammals are born knowing where milk comes from.


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## Nargle

I'm aware that milk come from mammals  But an egg yolk is BASICALLY the same thing or at least has the same purpose as milk: Feeding baby animals that can't eat real food yet. And you would think that since they're both meant for baby animals to eat, they'd be similar in regards to being in our diet. I guess that's what gets me confused. If anything it seems like eggs are more closely related to dairy than they are meat, considering that they don't have any meat in them at all unless they're fertilized and have a chick growing in them.


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## Firem4nJoe

Ah but what about the platypus and echidna? They both lay eggs and suckle their young.
Just thought I'd throw that in there.


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## RonE

Someone earlier in the (fantastic) thread referred to eggs as meat. Because of it's high protein (and fat) content, it's generally placed in the meat group (along with poultry and fish) when considering dietary servings. 

If you look at a food pyramid from a generation ago, you'd probably see eggs lumped with dairy. Nutritionally, though, they are closer to meat/protein. 

I'd be interested in hearing from a vegetarian.

I love the way this forum can take a bizarre thread and turn it into something interesting. (Though sometimes we do just the opposite.)


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## Nargle

Do platypus and echidna eggs have yolks? Or do they like "run out" of yolk before the baby animal is weaned? That's a very interesting point.

Also, I wonder if the protein content in milk would be similar to eggs if cows were small, fast growing omnivores rather than big, slow growing herbivores. Because really eggs and milk were "designed" for two totally different animals. I wonder what the milk of a small omnivore like a rat would look like nutritionally, or what the yolk of a large herbivorous bird would look like (What animal would that be though?). But if you think about it, there is quite a bit ofnutritional difference between cows milk and goat milk and sheeps milk etc already... 

Also, if soy is counted in the "meat and protein" category, what do you make of soy milk? Or almond milk (which is my fav!)?


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## xxxxdogdragoness

Inga>>> wow I mean ... WOW, that boy is gorgeous!!! 

I have fed eggs to my dogs before, but now they gt high quality kibble/canjed so I dont need those things, have given cheese as treats before... I guess I should turn myself in to the proper authorities


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## +two

RonE said:


> Someone earlier in the (fantastic) thread referred to eggs as meat. Because of it's high protein (and fat) content, it's generally placed in the meat group (along with poultry and fish) when considering dietary servings.
> 
> If you look at a food pyramid from a generation ago, you'd probably see eggs lumped with dairy. Nutritionally, though, they are closer to meat/protein.
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing from a vegetarian.
> 
> I love the way this forum can take a bizarre thread and turn it into something interesting. (Though sometimes we do just the opposite.)


*raises hand* I am a vegetarian. Not a very informed or smart one, but one none the less.

Eggs are eggs, meat is meat and dairy is dairy. Three different things. Dairy is classified as anything produced from the mammary glands of mammals such as cows and goats. And eggs contain no meat in them, thus they are their own entity. (at least this is my understanding)

Soy milk, IMO, would still be classified in the legume (protein) category. I think what gets people confused is the use of the word 'milk'.

Add: Wow... how did I ever miss this gem of a thread. Had me rollin'


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## Pawzk9

LOL went back and looked. Do you think the poster's screen name "Puppychow 49" might be a hint???


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## Firem4nJoe

Personally I'd group "_milk products_", for lack of a better term, such as Soy Milk, as belonging with the fruit juices, yet I wouldn't put O.J. on my cereal.


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## Willowy

Firem4nJoe said:


> Personally I'd group "_milk products_", for lack of a better term, such as Soy Milk, as belonging with the fruit juices, yet I wouldn't put O.J. on my cereal.


I did, when I was a kid (put OJ on my cereal. Apple juice too. It was yummy) .

I wouldn't put soy (or any other nut/grain sourced) "milk" as a milk product either. But I also don't know about categorizing it as a fruit juice. I guess I'd put them in the appropriate nut or grain category.


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## Firem4nJoe

The Soya Bean is a Legume. Let's put it with the peas and baked beans. 
Just for fun and see how people react.


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## kafkabeetle

+two said:


> *raises hand* I am a vegetarian. Not a very informed or smart one, but one none the less.
> 
> Eggs are eggs, meat is meat and dairy is dairy. Three different things. Dairy is classified as anything produced from the mammary glands of mammals such as cows and goats. And eggs contain no meat in them, thus they are their own entity. (at least this is my understanding)
> 
> Soy milk, IMO, would still be classified in the legume (protein) category. I think what gets people confused is the use of the word 'milk'.


I'm also a vegetarian and agree. I think of them as three separate categories. Even though eggs and milk serve the same basic function for baby animals, nutritionally they are different. Nutritionally I see eggs as *more* like meat than dairy but it's not really too important to me because a mixture of the two along with nuts, legumes, grains and seeds can provide all the necessary amino acids your average American would get from meat. Also, another reason I would distance eggs from dairy is because they do not contain lactose--people who avoid dairy can eat eggs just fine (Sassafras, I'm sure people are confusing an allergy to milk with people who *choose* not to eat eggs or dairy as lacto-ovo vegetarians. Which is a little silly).

Milks made from grains and legumes are not dairy at all. They are nutritionally completely different and contain protein but not cholesterol. They are not at all similar to fruit juices which are mostly natural sugars and vitamins. Btw, soy *is* a legume.


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## sassafras

kafkabeetle said:


> I Even though eggs and milk serve the same basic function for baby animals, nutritionally they are different.


And aside from that, _by definition_ dairy products are made from the milk of a mammal.


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## Independent George

Nargle said:


> I'm aware that milk come from mammals  But an egg yolk is BASICALLY the same thing or at least has the same purpose as milk: Feeding baby animals that can't eat real food yet. And you would think that since they're both meant for baby animals to eat, they'd be similar in regards to being in our diet. I guess that's what gets me confused. If anything it seems like eggs are more closely related to dairy than they are meat, considering that they don't have any meat in them at all unless they're fertilized and have a chick growing in them.


Mammalian eggs actually do have yolks which are consumed during embryonic development, but it doesn't last very long because the fetus soon gets nutrition directly from the mother.

Anyway, they might serve a similar purpose (nutrition), but eggs are primarily fat and protein with a little bit of water added in. Milk is primarily water and sugar, with some fats and the occasional protein thrown in. You could make the case that they're meat on account of the high protein & fat, but meat really amounts to actual muscle tissue with the odd bit of fat & connective tissues thrown in.


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## FilleBelle

sassafras said:


> So, I know this thread is wicked old, but since it's been resurrected anyway...
> 
> My husband is severely allergic to dairy. Upon hearing this, the most common question people almost immediately ask me is "can he eat eggs?!" It's always completely weirded me out, but seriously probably 30-40% of the time people ask that. *shakes head*


Betwen the ages of 8 and 28, I was a vegetarian. I no longer tell people I am one because I will eat meat if served it at someone else's home, as a matter of convenience. I do not order it or cook it for myself, however. 

At any rate, the question I was always asked when I told someone I was a vegetarian was, "Do you eat chicken?" I took to answering, "Only the ones that grow on trees!"


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## Big Paws Up

FilleBelle said:


> Betwen the ages of 8 and 28, I was a vegetarian. I no longer tell people I am one because I will eat meat if served it at someone else's home, as a matter of convenience. I do not order it or cook it for myself, however.
> 
> At any rate, the question I was always asked when I told someone I was a vegetarian was, "Do you eat chicken?" I took to answering, "Only the ones that grow on trees!"


On trees - that's cute. My normal response to what do I eat is - "nothing with a face".


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## katielou

FilleBelle said:


> Betwen the ages of 8 and 28, I was a vegetarian. I no longer tell people I am one because I will eat meat if served it at someone else's home, as a matter of convenience. I do not order it or cook it for myself, however.
> 
> At any rate, the question I was always asked when I told someone I was a vegetarian was, "Do you eat chicken?" I took to answering, "Only the ones that grow on trees!"


I get that and "do you eat fish" all the damn time.
My husband found some cute business card sized cards at a craft fair that had the definitions of vegetarian and pescitarian on them that he gave out to people who asked those questions.


----------



## RonE

My daughter eats poultry, but no red meat. My wife will tell people that she's a vegetarian and my daughter will say, "No, Mom, I'm not."

She did eat some grass-fed bison the other day and proclaimed it to be tasty.


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## Tofu_pup

Firem4nJoe said:


> Personally I'd group "_milk products_", for lack of a better term, such as Soy Milk, as belonging with the fruit juices, yet I wouldn't put O.J. on my cereal.


Nobody wants to drink "soy juice". Had I been offered soy juice, I think I would've said eff that and settled with the digestive upset that is milk in my body.

I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, have been since the fourth grade(that just happened to be when I lived in California and fell in love with tie die, long hair, and peace signs...). I had a year long stint with veganism and I've contemplated going back because it agreed with my body.

I have never thought of eggs as meat. They're just...eggs. Though I spent a long time recovering from a fertilized duck egg that my grandma had cracked for breakfast...


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## Willowy

Tofu_pup said:


> I have never thought of eggs as meat. They're just...eggs. Though I spent a long time recovering from a fertilized duck egg that my grandma had cracked for breakfast...


Ewww. . .how fertilized? I mean, I've had fertilized eggs. (Telling by the red spot in them) that were collected and refrigerated soon after laying, but if I ever cracked open a half-developed egg, I think I'd wind up with some kind of egg-related PTSD or something .

Whenever I eat something animal related, I have to totally shut down my brain and not think about it. Milk is a glandular secretion. Eggs come out of a chicken's cloaca (do you know where that's BEEN???). Meat is _dead animals_. If I think about any of that while eating them, I can't. My brain annoys me sometimes .


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## Tofu_pup

Willowy said:


> Ewww. . .how fertilized? I mean, I've had fertilized eggs. (Telling by the red spot in them) that were collected and refrigerated soon after laying, but if I ever cracked open a half-developed egg, I think I'd wind up with some kind of egg-related PTSD or something .


It was basically a developing baby duck. My grandma, an old pro at the country living/cooking thing, just tossed it out and started new eggs.
Between that and my father's "cooking", I don't know why anybody was surprised(let alone angry) that I opted to become a vegetarian.


----------



## Willowy

Tofu_pup said:


> I don't know why anybody was surprised(let alone angry) that I opted to become a vegetarian.


Yeah, why do people get angry? That's so weird. What's it to them? I've seen people get violent when someone off-handedly mentions they're vegetarian. When I was a teenager I told my uncle I was vegetarian (I was. . .for like a month. I fail at avoiding bacon), and things got real dicey for a few minutes.


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## Tofu_pup

Willowy said:


> Yeah, why do people get angry? That's so weird. What's it to them? I've seen people get violent when someone off-handedly mentions they're vegetarian. When I was a teenager I told my uncle I was vegetarian (I was. . .for like a month. I fail at avoiding bacon), and things got real dicey for a few minutes.


Beats me.
Luckily, my parents had split custody so I didn't see my father so much. Every evening with him basically ended with me sitting at the table for hours and hours on end staring at cold chilli, pork chops, gizzards, etc. Then I went to bed.
My ex did everything in her power to slip meat into my food. She succeeded twice and I just shrugged it off.

People are strange.


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## kafkabeetle

Willowy said:


> Yeah, why do people get angry? That's so weird. What's it to them? I've seen people get violent when someone off-handedly mentions they're vegetarian. When I was a teenager I told my uncle I was vegetarian (I was. . .for like a month. I fail at avoiding bacon), and things got real dicey for a few minutes.


I've honestly never experienced that kind of attitude. I *have* experienced very condescending remarks and demands that I explain why I wasn't eating meat which resulted in personal attacks and being called stupid or whatever else. Most of my extended family finds it really bizarre but not really a point of contention. Since it's been like 8 years now, it hardly ever comes up anymore.

I saw a segment of weird foods, I think it was where fertilized eggs were eaten on purpose because of their superior nutrition in I-can't-remember-what developing country. Makes sense to me, but yeah, if I broke an egg and found a baby chicken in it I would probably freak for a minute.


----------



## Pawzk9

Willowy said:


> Yeah, why do people get angry? That's so weird. What's it to them? I've seen people get violent when someone off-handedly mentions they're vegetarian. When I was a teenager I told my uncle I was vegetarian (I was. . .for like a month. I fail at avoiding bacon), and things got real dicey for a few minutes.


I don't mind at all if people want to be vegetarians. I only mind if they want to guilt me (or legally force me) to be one too.


----------



## kafkabeetle

Pawzk9 said:


> I don't mind at all if people want to be vegetarians. I only mind if they want to guilt me (or legally force me) to be one too.


Doesn't sound like anyone here was doing that. I think many people take the very mention of someone they know being a vegetarian as an assault on their own morality (since you're opting out of something they happily do) and there's nothing I or any other person can do about that. I also think a lot of people assume most vegetarians are these overzealous conversion minded zombies because the most visible ones are. In reality most are reasonable people who don't bring it up a lot because it's really not all that important, lol.


----------



## Willowy

Pawzk9 said:


> I don't mind at all if people want to be vegetarians. I only mind if they want to guilt me (or legally force me) to be one too.


I see just as much (maybe more) guilting and forcing (and bullying) on the other side. And, seriously? "Legally forcing"? Never heard of that.

Weirdest thing is, whever I see issues it's when the vegetarian is being perfectly polite. Someone else will be making snide comments about hating the eggplant casserole or steamed asparagus and everybody's fine with it, but then someone says "no thanks, I don't eat meat" and by the reactions you'd think they admitted to being a pedophile. People are strange.


----------



## Pawzk9

kafkabeetle said:


> Doesn't sound like anyone here was doing that. I think many people take the very mention of someone they know being a vegetarian as an assault on their own morality (since you're opting out of something they happily do) and there's nothing I or any other person can do about that. I also think a lot of people assume most vegetarians are these overzealous conversion minded zombies because the most visible ones are. In reality most are reasonable people who don't bring it up a lot because it's really not all that important, lol.


I didn't say that anyone here was doing that. I only take it as an assault on my morality if someone cops smug and superior moral ground based on their eating habits. Otherwise, eat all the tofurkey you want! My husband even likes Boca burgers. I do know that one of the goals of H$U$ is a vegan nation. No thank you!


----------



## kafkabeetle

Pawzk9 said:


> I didn't say that anyone here was doing that. I only take it as an assault on my morality if someone cops smug and superior moral ground based on their eating habits. Otherwise, eat all the tofurkey you want! My husband even likes Boca burgers. I do know that one of the goals of H$U$ is a vegan nation. No thank you!


I boy do I hate all vegans and vegetarians being conflated with animal rights organizations.


----------



## Pawzk9

Willowy said:


> I see just as much (maybe more) guilting and forcing (and bullying) on the other side. And, seriously? "Legally forcing"? Never heard of that.
> 
> Weirdest thing is, whever I see issues it's when the vegetarian is being perfectly polite. Someone else will be making snide comments about hating the eggplant casserole or steamed asparagus and everybody's fine with it, but then someone says "no thanks, I don't eat meat" and by the reactions you'd think they admitted to being a pedophile. People are strange.


If you are vegetarian, it makes sense that your experience would be different than mine, since I definitely am not. As to legally forcing? Really? Obviously you are not familiar with H$U$ or PeTAphiles. Which is odd for a self-professed AR supporter. (And yeah. I HATE eggplant and asparagus. But if you like it that is fine with me.


----------



## Pawzk9

kafkabeetle said:


> I boy do I hate all vegans and vegetarians being conflated with animal rights organizations.


Then you should probably take that up with them, since it's a primary agenda. I don't think all vegans and vegetarians are AR. And I only really mind the ones who are (or want to tell me what to eat.)


----------



## kafkabeetle

Pawzk9 said:


> And yeah. I HATE eggplant and asparagus. But if you like it that is fine with me.


I think what she was saying didn't have anything to do with personal preferences, but instead rudeness. If I go to someone else's home for dinner I let them know ahead of time I don't eat meat and I bring a dish along so they don't have to build the meal around me. I eat a little bit of everything they prepared and if I don't compliment it, I definitely don't stick my nose up at it. But for some reason in the exact same situation I have found that making a big 'ol scene is acceptable. I just roll with it but I'd be lying if I said it didn't get old.


----------



## +two

Tofu_pup said:


> Beats me.
> Luckily, my parents had split custody so I didn't see my father so much. Every evening with him basically ended with me sitting at the table for hours and hours on end staring at cold chilli, pork chops, gizzards, etc. Then I went to bed.
> *My ex did everything in her power to slip meat into my food. She succeeded twice and I just shrugged it off.*
> 
> People are strange.


For reals? That is incomprehensible to me. She would be out really fing fast and for good. Made me sick just thinking about it. I'd love to share some choice words about her. 

I went to a Thai restaurant with a couple friends over the summer and when my food came it had Shrimp in it. I sent it back and got my replacement. I am usually pretty good about checking food but I guess I was hungry and figured it was fine since it was fixed. Well, there was Shrimp in it again, but this time at the bottom under the noodles. I had eaten some of the noodles. Well, I kind of got very upset in a silent and stormy way. I had to get up and leave. I don't know why I got so emotional over it but thats the first time someone has purposefully put meat in my food. 

At almost every meal I have with my father, he asks if I want some meat. I don't know if he thinks he is funny or something but after 8 or 9 years it gets really old. No one really supports my decision and they like to make fun of me for it, but its whatever. My personal beliefs aren't anyone elses. When the conversation does come up, I inevitably get asked if I think everyone should be vegetarian or if I hate meat eaters. My answer is that so long as people are making an informed decision about what they put in their bodies, then thats fine. Don't bother me and I won't bother you. What does get on my nerves is people who have absolutely no idea about where their meat comes from. People who think chicken naturally comes mashed together in nugget form or don't know that beef is from cattle. Ignorance is a thorn in my side and I am not always so nice if people want to have radical views (you are going to get sick and die because your a vegetarian!) and then have no evidence let alone basic knowledge to back it up.

If you know where your meal came from and you are okay with how it got to your plate and in your stomach, then that is your choice to make.


----------



## Pawzk9

kafkabeetle said:


> I think what she was saying didn't have anything to do with personal preferences, but instead rudeness. If I go to someone else's home for dinner I let them know ahead of time I don't eat meat and I bring a dish along so they don't have to build the meal around me. I eat a little bit of everything they prepared and if I don't compliment it, I definitely don't stick my nose up at it. But for some reason in the exact same situation I have found that making a big 'ol scene is acceptable. I just roll with it but I'd be lying if I said it didn't get old.


Well, I would not insult the host's food (or food a guest brought) However I might not eat even a bit of it. I gag easy and that's embarrassing. For instance, I was able to sample mySIL's liver sausage but not the beet and herring jello dish. It would have been much worse if I had tried. I'd be the same way if someone served me eggplant. I wouldn't insult it but I wouldn't eat it either. i think people who eat meat remember the rude vegans and the people who don't will remember rude omnivores. The fact is, neither preference is all rude. We just remember the ones who are.


----------



## Willowy

Pawzk9 said:


> If you are vegetarian, it makes sense that your experience would be different than mine, since I definitely am not. As to legally forcing? Really? Obviously you are not familiar with H$U$ or PeTAphiles. Which is odd for a self-professed AR supporter. (And yeah. I HATE eggplant and asparagus. But if you like it that is fine with me.


I'm not vegetarian. And, no, I'm not aware of any attempts to legally force vegetarianism on anybody. And I'm not a self-professed AR supporter (depending on your definition of AR. If we go with the supposedly standard definition, I'm not). And my point about the eggplant (ick, I don't like it either) or asparagus is that it seems like non-vegetarians get to make rude comments about stuff they don't like and nobody thinks that's bad, but if someone politely declines meat they're the bad guy.


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## Tofu_pup

Meh. I don't hold grudges well. I do this:


+two said:


> Well, I kind of got very upset in a silent and stormy way.


Do that for a few hours at most and then my anger just fizzles out.

I do not push people to be vegetarians. It's not my business.
Considering I was in fourth grade when I made the decision...it obviously wasn't a very informed one. Eating animals gave me the heebie jeebies then and it does now. That's my motivation.

As far as PETA...
I was doing research when I made the switch to veganism(not as easy as it sounds...) when I found a list of vegan foods on PETA's site. So I started reading through it and there's cheeze-its, oreos, etc. on there. I double checked that the list did in fact say VEGAN. Explain that one to me.


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## Pawzk9

+two said:


> What does get on my nerves is people who have absolutely no idea about where their meat comes from. People who think chicken naturally comes mashed together in nugget form or don't know that beef is from cattle. Ignorance is a thorn in my side and I am not always so nice if people want to have radical views (you are going to get sick and die because your a vegetarian!) and then have no evidence let alone basic knowledge to back it up.
> 
> If you know where your meal came from and you are okay with how it got to your plate and in your stomach, then that is your choice to make.


There are also people (PeTA comes to mind) who will tell you that you will get sick and die because you eat meat., so again, there are two sides to it. I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't know that their meat isn't originally from McNugget plants. I will admit to being one fo the people who is more comfortable if someone else kills it and cleans it. But then, I think we are, in the natural order of things, all food for someone, and there's a good chance that plants are sentient at a level we don't perceive.


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## GottaLuvMutts

Pawzk9 said:


> There are also people (PeTA comes to mind) who will tell you that you will get sick and die because you eat meat., so again, there are two sides to it.


I'll admit to being one of those people. It has nothing to do with PETA or AR, though. There's lot of scientific evidence to suggest that consumption of animal protein is associated with all kinds of diseases. Pretty much anything you can think of: obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, even osteoporosis. In other words, the diseases that kill those of us who live in developed countries. Don't believe me? Check out the book "The China Study". Don't have time to read a book? Check out the documentary "Forks over Knives". You can get it streaming on Netflix.

My fridge is stocked with eggplant, asparagus, and everything in between. A whole-foods plant-based diet is what I am evolved to eat, and that is what I strive for. That said, I eat meat and dairy occasionally (if it's served to me - convenience thing, like FilleBelle), and I don't have a problem with others who choose to eat meat or dairy, no matter how often. As with smoking cigarettes, doing drugs, drinking, etc., it's absolutely your choice. I just wish more people were informed of the true risks. The meat and dairy industries are so deep in the pockets of our government I really don't see any danger of anyone being forced into veganism, at least in the U.S.

To those vegetarians who feel marginalized by omnivores, know that things are changing. In my (very lefty-liberal, progressive) area, I see a much greater stigma attached to meat-eating than to vegetarianism. My dad, a doctor who was raised on a farm that produced meat and dairy products, has always been a "meat and potatoes" kinda guy. Over a year ago he adopted a vegan diet and has since reversed his pre-diabetes. Watching his transformation, not just in terms of health, but also in terms of attitude, has strengthened my resolve to continue eating the way my ancestors ate. 

More to the topic of this thread, though, feeding eggs and cheese to dogs is A-OK by me. Humans evolved to eat mostly plants. Dogs evolved to eat animal protein. Big difference.


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## Firem4nJoe

> I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't know that their meat isn't originally from McNugget plants.


Aww, now I'm sad  lol


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## Nargle

I think the reason why many people get offended about someone being a vegetarian is because they feel as though they are being accused of doing something awful and immoral by choosing to eat meat. Though that's obviously something silly to get worked up about and I know not every vegetarian feels that way about people who eat meat. But there are lots of people who are very insecure about the way others view their lifestyles. For instance I've even had people get very angry at me because I told them that I am not personally a member of their chosen religion. 

Btw, I'm just curious about seeing this issue from a different perspective, but say you ran a farm and produced all of your own meat, and you had a family member or loved one who refused to eat meat, including meat from your farm, how would you feel about that?


----------



## Nargle

kafkabeetle said:


> Also, another reason I would distance eggs from dairy is because they do not contain lactose--people who avoid dairy can eat eggs just fine (Sassafras, I'm sure people are confusing an allergy to milk with people who *choose* not to eat eggs or dairy as lacto-ovo vegetarians. Which is a little silly).


Sorry for the double post but I'm typing on my phone and it's kind of difficult to quote and edit and stuff.

But I'm pretty sure that not all milk contains lactose. Goats milk for example.


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## dagwall

All milk contains lactose, lactose IS milk sugar. Just like all fruits contain fructose, fruit sugar.


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## The_Monstors

Pawzk9 said:


> I don't mind at all if people want to be vegetarians. I only mind if they want to guilt me (or legally force me) to be one too.


I defend vegans to practice the lifestyle they see fit, but I also stamp out vegans when they try to push meat eaters. No one should be pushed to believe in anything they don't want to believe.

It does happen both ways and I've had to defend both sides at one point or another. There's different levels of "pro vegan" and "pro meat"....some vegans are also PeTaphiles and some just live in what they believe....some meat eaters just like meat and some think you're a freak if you don't. Sometimes you unfortunately meet the person that if you dont believe or do what I do then you are wrong type.

Since going vegetarian myself for my health I have had nothing but support from all my foodie friends. All of them are willing to eat with me at places where I can find something delicious too. Most of them want to come over once I master some veggie dishes. I do have already vegan/vegetarian friends and everyone has managed to meet a happy line during dinners where everyone eats what they want and no one gets scoffed for it.


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## katielou

Nargle said:


> Btw, I'm just curious about seeing this issue from a different perspective, but say you ran a farm and produced all of your own meat, and you had a family member or loved one who refused to eat meat, including meat from your farm, how would you feel about that?


I am that non meat eater.
I lived on a pig farm that raised beautiful pigs in frankly better conditions that i lived  But i still didn't eat it and that was fine by my folks.
Really what does it matter what other people eat? Im veggie, my husband isn't i will still cook him a steak. Granted i make sure the steak is something nasty from walmart its all local humanly raised.

People just assume i am veggie because of the poor little animals and go off on one about how i'm an idiot when they didn't even think to ask why i am veggie.


----------



## LittleFr0g

Willowy said:


> I'm not vegetarian. And, no, I'm not aware of any attempts to legally force vegetarianism on anybody. And I'm not a self-professed AR supporter (depending on your definition of AR. If we go with the supposedly standard definition, I'm not). And my point about the eggplant (ick, I don't like it either) or asparagus is that it seems like non-vegetarians get to make rude comments about stuff they don't like and nobody thinks that's bad, but if someone politely declines meat they're the bad guy.



I eat very few vegetables, but love meat, and I get the EXACT same rude responses from people who mostly eat only vegetables or are vegetarians. And i am never rude in my refusal to eat vegetable dishes, doesnt matter, i get the same rude responses you are subscribing to non-vegetarians. I get mocked for my eating habits ALL the time. It's not nearly so one sided as you make it out to be.


----------



## FilleBelle

My ex was insanely narrow in his dietary choices. He would eat three vegetables (green beans, ICEBURG lettuce, and potatoes) and only a handful of fruits. He mostly just ate meat and cheese. When we went to pre-marital counseling at my church and the minister asked us about some of our concerns about life together, I actually starting crying, saying that I was afraid he was going to kill himself with his diet. It was all very dramatic and, looking back, kind of hilarious. I was seriously worried for him at the time, though.

Now, I wouldn't mind so much if he dropped dead of a meat-induced heart attack.


----------



## Willowy

Nargle said:


> Btw, I'm just curious about seeing this issue from a different perspective, but say you ran a farm and produced all of your own meat, and you had a family member or loved one who refused to eat meat, including meat from your farm, how would you feel about that?


 What if you ran a farm and grew all your own veggies, and you had a family member or loved one who refused to eat brussels sprouts, eggplant, and asparagus?


----------



## Tofu_pup

sassafras said:


> So, I know this thread is wicked old, but since it's been resurrected anyway...
> 
> My husband is severely allergic to dairy. Upon hearing this, the most common question people almost immediately ask me is "can he eat eggs?!" It's always completely weirded me out, but seriously probably 30-40% of the time people ask that. *shakes head*


What I find almost as amusing as this is the way people look at you when you say that you don't have a microwave. It's so difficult for some people to comprehend that they just stare and say,"How?... What do you eat?".
To which I say "food".


----------



## Willowy

Nargle said:


> But I'm pretty sure that not all milk contains lactose. Goats milk for example.


Goat's milk has only slightly less lactose than cow's milk (4.1% vs 4.7%). But the proteins are different, so some people who have trouble with cow's milk can tolerate goat's milk. But not someone who's truly lactose intolerant.


----------



## Willowy

Tofu_pup said:


> What I find almost as amusing as this is the way people look at you when you say that you don't have a microwave. It's so difficult for some people to comprehend that they just stare and say,"How?... What do you eat?".
> To which I say "food".


 My microwave broke a couple months ago and I haven't replaced it. I like that it's forcing me to eat slightly better. But I'm having trouble boiling water, LOL. If I don't replace the microwave I'm going to need to buy a teakettle.


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## GottaLuvMutts

Just wanted to point out that having/using a microwave doesn't mean poor eating habits, either. I use mine to reheat leftovers - healthy meals that I've prepared myself. TV dinners? Not so much.


----------



## kafkabeetle

Pawzk9 said:


> The fact is, neither preference is all rude. We just remember the ones who are.


I completely agree. 

And for the record I'm not a big fan of eggplant either. It's like mealy taste-less apple. But I do love most other vegetables!


----------



## Tofu_pup

GottaLuvMutts said:


> Just wanted to point out that having/using a microwave doesn't mean poor eating habits, either. I use mine to reheat leftovers - healthy meals that I've prepared myself. TV dinners? Not so much.


I have never made that argument. 

I hatehatehate laziness but when it comes to food, I am the laziest, most impatient person ever. If it takes longer than 30 seconds-2 minutes to prepare, it's a chore in my book. That's where my food self-discipline comes in. Instead of eating Captain Crunch I can eat spinach w/bleu cheese. Both quick and easy.


----------



## KuroSaya

The first post is pretty funny.. lol Saya and Bella loves eggs and cheese!


----------



## Nargle

Willowy said:


> What if you ran a farm and grew all your own veggies, and you had a family member or loved one who refused to eat brussels sprouts, eggplant, and asparagus?


That's a good question and personally I think I would feel the same way in both scenarios. This is just my opinion, but if I were in either scenario, and I worked really hard and dedicated a decent chunk of my life to producing home-grown food for my family, I would be upset if my family members did not appreciate that. It's like if you knitted your family member a sweater and poured hours of you time into it, and they didn't even try it on, I would find that to be upsetting. I know everyone has their own personal tastes and everything, and that should be respected, but that's one scenario where I can definitely understand why a why a family member would be upset over their loved one choosing a diet that excluded the food that they worked hard to produce.


----------



## lil_fuzzy

Kuma'sMom said:


> I eat very few vegetables, but love meat, and I get the EXACT same rude responses from people who mostly eat only vegetables or are vegetarians. And i am never rude in my refusal to eat vegetable dishes, doesnt matter, i get the same rude responses you are subscribing to non-vegetarians. I get mocked for my eating habits ALL the time. It's not nearly so one sided as you make it out to be.


To be fair, not eating vegetables and having people comment on it is different from people trying to push you to be vegetarian. Humans need veggies in their diet, a person who eats lots of veggies will be healthier and have lower risk of cancer than a person who doesn't.

Maybe people comment on it out of a concern for your health?

I would never push people one way or the other, I really don't care if people are vegetarian/vegan or not, but if a close friend of mine refused to eat vegetables then I would comment on it.


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## Firem4nJoe

I hate vegetables!!!
Except for potato, onion, beetroot and lettuce, they're all disgusting! Hahaha.
Seriously though, you can get all the same good stuff from fruit. I know a vast amount of meat eaters who claim never to eat fruit or veg but as soon as you sit a fruit salad in front of them they'll gobble it up with gusto.

As for the animal right vegan crowd. Plants are living things too. Plants feel pain just like animals do. They scream at an almighty pitch too high for human ears to detect too. So with that in mind I chose not to discriminate and eat from both sides of the fence.
Isn't science wonderful?


----------



## Tofu_pup

I had assumed that the farmer/rancher family member scenario was somebody doing this to support themselves, not a big fat present for the family. So I don't think it is even remotely similar to the sweater. 
I work with dogs. Most of what I talk about is dog related. My family doesn't give two sh*ts about any of this, even the dog owners in my family. Am I offended or angry? No. That just means we have a lot less to talk about and I seek that outlet elsewhere. I could easily do the same if I wanted to enjoy and talk about veggies.


----------



## AugiesMomn

kafkabeetle said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> And for the record I'm not a big fan of eggplant either. It's like mealy taste-less apple. But I do love most other vegetables!


Well, not good on its own, but I make eggplant soup all the time and I love it. (Regular veggie soup, but with diced eggplant added. It mostly takes on the flavor of the tomatoes). 

I've known a lot of "vegetarians" who eat chicken. wth. They apparently don't know the meaning of the word "vegetarian." I'm an omnivore myself.

As for this thread, I laughed so hard. Best thread on the internet. I actually laughed out loud and scared my dogs.

I don't really feed them cheese, but now I want to share some eggs with them. Then I'm gonna call my mom and yell at her, she fed me cheese as a kid, and we all know that makes you fat and ugly. Maybe I can starve off a few pounds by eating some eggs, but that won't fix the ugly. lol.


----------



## MissInsantity

katielou said:


> I am that non meat eater.
> I lived on a pig farm that raised beautiful pigs in frankly better conditions that i lived  But i still didn't eat it and that was fine by my folks.
> Really what does it matter what other people eat? Im veggie, my husband isn't i will still cook him a steak. Granted i make sure the steak is something nasty from walmart its all local humanly raised.
> 
> People just assume i am veggie because of the poor little animals and go off on one about how i'm an idiot when they didn't even think to ask why i am veggie.


haha. i love this, i struggle with this all the time, sorry little off topic from eggs and cheese, but my partner eats all meat, i eat chicken and fish, but not pork or red meats... and i just say im a vegatarian just easier sometimes.. but i just dont like the taste of the rest so i just dont eat it LOL.... 

as for egg and cheese for dog.. i think i will make that for his breakfast this morning LOL He loves it...
Cheers.


----------



## Judy Chartrand

So you are saying someone who feeds their dogs eggs, and Cheese are being abusive? My dear, I feel the opposite. If someone is going through the trouble of boiling eggs, and feeding expensive cheese to a dog, they are not doing it to be abusive. They are doing it because they want to care. Now I have been researching for a long while on the foods dogs can eat. I have found many sites which say dogs can have eggs, and this dry food you promote, almost always contains eggs. And I personally believe feeding dogs commercial dry dog food is abusive, since it is really not good for them, and contains a lot of junk and toxins. Usually, Corn being the first ingredient, which Holistic Vets say may be the reason why pets are developing diabetes and obesity. The only reason Cheese is bad for our pets is because dogs are lactose intolerant, and it does contain high amounts of fat. For a dog to be healthy, they need high protein, but low fat, and fiber. 

What did dogs do before they had owners. They ate whatever they could find. They ate like wild dogs. There was no commercial dry dog food growing on bushes...

So far, I have not found any research that proves soft boiled eggs are contradicted in a dogs diet. It appears to be a high source of protein for them. But what I find disturbing it your accusation that people are abusing their pets by feeding them eggs and cheese. No one loves their pet more than I love mine, and I spend a lot of time researching the best foods for them. Everyone makes mistakes, but it is not because they are being abusive. Plus, not all dogs can handle the same diet. My ex fed our Schnauzer nothing but pedigree for years, thinking it was a good source for their diets, and the Schnauzer ended up with diabetes. IT'S FIRST INGREDIENT WAS CORN.. and after analyzing it, found that it had nothing but junk and toxins in it. So who do we trust, ourselves, or the commercial companies when it comes to our pets. People say, they do not want to feed their dogs people food. What do they think they make dog food with? Unfortunately, a lot of dog food is made with non-human grade food. For me, if it isn't good enough for me, my dogs are not going to get it.








puppychow49 said:


> Recently I discovered this webforum. I had found numerous articles online about feeding Dogs eggs, and cheese. These articles had been promoting feeding Dogs eggs, and cheese. Stating that eggs and cheese are good for a dogs health. That eggs and cheese are good for a dogs Diet. This is actually incorrect.
> 
> Eggs leave a Dog starving. Cheese leave Dogs fat, ugly, and lethargic.
> 
> Eggs are for beings that feed themselfs. Not for Dogs.
> 
> Eggs starve dogs and deprive them of healthy stool circulation. Dogs need Dry food and water. Along with the occasional wet food for dogs.
> 
> Cheese and Eggs are horrible for Dogs, as Dogs do not have a need for Dairy Products.
> 
> Owners of pets who abuse their Dogs are commiting a crime. And should be arrested.
> 
> The bottom line is if you want to persist in feeding your Dog Eggs, and Cheese, then your are incapable of owning a Dog.
> 
> A Dogs diet must be strictly controlled by the owner.
> 
> If a dog isnt eating at first, you must persist. A dog can only have a stable diet with Dog Food. It has been being made for centuries.


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## Sibe

Oh this thread :doh:


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## Hambonez

I realize this thread is very old, but it made me lol. Left off the list: Eggs make my dog fart. Cheese makes my dog do anything I ask. Anything. Frantically.


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## BernerMax

Hey I thought whole raw eggs with shell are good? We have tons handy so each dog gets one daily....


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## Judy Chartrand

Awesome photos, and beautiful dogs....


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## Willowy

LOL, this thread is epic.


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## Judy Chartrand

It seems many people feed their dogs raw eggs, I don't do it, because I could not eat raw eggs myself, but love them soft boiled, or over light in the skillet.

I have also read (and this was not a forum or blog) you can crush up egg shells into a powder and give it to them for the Calcium. So if they can eat the eggs whole with no problem, then it must be okay.. I do it differently, because of preference.


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## Kayla_Nicole

I'm really disappointed I missed out on this thread when it was new 4 years ago. 

Maybe if I had read it, I would have realized that feeding Alannah tiny bits of organic, all natural cheese in training sessions would make her fat and ugly


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## RonE

Oh, my.

You've chosen to resurrect a ridiculous (though amusing) thread, posted by a hit-and-run troll who disappeared forever immediately after posting it. 



> What did dogs do before they had owners. They ate whatever they could find. They ate like wild dogs. There was no commercial dry dog food growing on bushes...


I'm gratified to learn that wild dogs ate cheese. I only hope they selected the appropriate wine to accompany it. 

Just in case anyone here is serious, I think most of us can agree that eggs and cheese, in moderation, are not going to harm most dogs, may be good for them and would likely be considered a great treat.


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## Judy Chartrand

You are right. I only responded to the comment that was eons old, because there are so many people who do neglect and abuse their own pets, and for those of us who try to take care of them, but taking the time to actually cook for them, it is not being abusive, and I was offended by that. 
I take my dogs diet seriously, because their a member of my family and their important.


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## Judy Chartrand

So sorry, I brought all this back to life.....
We only want them to be happy and healthy....


----------



## Judy Chartrand

Hey, we know there are certain foods that are toxic for our dogs, and any responsible owner would not give their dog something that would hurt them, but when it comes to Cheese, they should be able to enjoy small amounts of it without it killing them, or our being accused of abusing them.....I hope.

They really love Cheese.


----------



## BernerMax

RonE said:


> Oh, my.
> 
> You've chosen to resurrect a ridiculous (though amusing) thread, posted by a hit-and-run troll who disappeared forever immediately after posting it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gratified to learn that wild dogs ate cheese. I only hope they selected the appropriate wine to accompany it.
> 
> Just in case anyone here is serious, I think most of us can agree that eggs and cheese, in moderation, are not going to harm most dogs, may be good for them and would likely be considered a great treat.


 HA what about the other thread where they poured the wine for their dog to accompany his Penne... OK sorry off topic.... yes this is a funny thread!


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## Judy Chartrand

Okay, I am officially, killing the thread. And I promise not to come back 6 years from now, and resurrect it again.

Oh, I don't think I said wild dogs ate cheese, I was saying wild dogs did not eat dry dog food.


----------



## Flaming

As for the egg yolk discussion a few pages ago. While yes mammals have eggs in their ovaries, they do not serve exactly the same function. A birds egg serves as the egg and uterus, where mammals keep the 2 separate.

Yolk nutritionally is similar to placenta and serves the same function. Feeding the fetus, mammal fetuses don't drink milk. Egg white is similar to embryonic fluid. 

The reason chicks don't drink milk is because they develop a more capable digestive system than most mamals, where most mamals are still developing their digestive system after birth and that's why they drink milk.

For the vegetarian vs meat eater... I'm omnivorous and my sister in law is vegan. I see extremely rude people on both sides, roughly equally. Rude people are just rude people, diet doesn't change that, it just gives them a topic. When at her place I eat what ever she has with the only exception of my allergies and when she visits me, she eats all my veggies. No worries anywhere.

I also saw a broad post claiming dogs are lactose intolerant. Not all are, most aren't. But cats and dogs are a little more likely to develop the intolerance with age than humans are. 

I'm on my phone so I can'tpost sources, but if you pm me, I can send both book and website sources once I get to a computer.


----------



## Tainted

BernerMax said:


> Hey I thought whole raw eggs with shell are good? We have tons handy so each dog gets one daily....


You give them everyday? It doesn't upset their stomachs? 

Mine get 1-2 a week. Whole raw eggs are good stuff.


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## Judy Chartrand

I completely respect your choice, and your sister-in-law's. I love animals, so the choice of slaughtering them to feed ourselves, bothers me. I have tried gradually to move away from eating meat, but have not really gained a lot of ground. 
It would be difficult to feed a dog a vegan diet, but I try to give them more veggies, oats, barley...etc, than meat. However, they need a certain amount of protein to be healthy.


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## BernerMax

Tainted said:


> You give them everyday? It doesn't upset their stomachs?
> 
> Mine get 1-2 a week. Whole raw eggs are good stuff.


 Well I am out of town 3 meal aweek so my hubby is supposed to mix an egg in.... not sure he actually does-- so I guess I can reliabley saw they get them 3 days in a row... and maybe again once or twice later in the week-- we have 2 80 lb dogs and one 100 lb dog.... no have not noticed anythign upset in the poo area.... (note that the dogs kill and eat their own wild things too)....


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## Judy Chartrand

They are beautiful dogs.


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## Judy Chartrand

Yes you are right, but would they do that now? Maybe. I have a Mini Schnauzer, and I suppose he could still kill a few rats if he tried, but my Vizsla may starve, or turn scavenger, and eat all the left overs, which she is so famous for now.


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## Ron_Dog

I feed my dogs Fromm's dry dog food (the best food I've ever found). Look at the ingredents  http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/puppy-gold


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## Judy Chartrand

I know it and Fromm's is one of the top rated dog foods. 5 star. If I remember, no controversial ingredients.


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## Tainted

Judy Chartrand said:


> I completely respect your choice, and your sister-in-law's. I love animals, so the choice of slaughtering them to feed ourselves, bothers me. I have tried gradually to move away from eating meat, but have not really gained a lot of ground.
> It would be difficult to feed a dog a vegan diet, but I try to give them more veggies, oats, barley...etc, than meat. However, they need a certain amount of protein to be healthy.


Dogs don't need vegetables.. none.. at all. They need meat. While they _can_ eat certain fruits and vegetables, they're still carnivores animals. Just because you're trying to move away from eating meat, doesn't mean you should restrict the amount of meat you give to your dogs, and just replace it with more vegetables. I really hope you rethink the way you're feeding them.


----------



## BernerMax

Judy Chartrand said:


> Yes you are right, but would they do that now? Maybe. I have a Mini Schnauzer, and I suppose he could still kill a few rats if he tried, but my Vizsla may starve, or turn scavenger, and eat all the left overs, which she is so famous for now.


I was just saying that the things they eat on their own (you should have seen the old bunny carcass that my Berner relished to the very last old bit of dried skin), it is unlikely that raw eggs almost daily (5 or 6 a week) is going to upset their tummy-- they are fed a 4 star kibble, along with raw meaty bones for their teeth and cottage cheese and rice and egg topped off with lightly cooked hamburger (old dog has poor chewing ability).... I wasnt sayinh that I make them forage for Food (they do that for Fun-- thats what a giant schnauzer does for Fun, the Berner just eats.. what she kills)...


----------



## Judy Chartrand

I have to disagree with you on the veggies, dogs need veggies, and in the wild they do eat green vegetation. But as I stated in my quote, I make sure they get the protein they need, but dogs will over eat, and if you give them only meat, they will eat it all and more, so I mix in the veggies. They need the veggies. They also need fiber, which they do not get from meat.


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## Judy Chartrand

OH, no, I understood what you meant. I think my reply was not clear, not yours. I was just saying if they had to go wild now, I don't know if they could manage. I understood exactly what you meant, you explained it well.


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## BernerMax

Judy Chartrand said:


> OH, no, I understood what you meant. I think my reply was not clear, not yours. I was just saying if they had to go wild now, I don't know if they could manage. I understood exactly what you meant, you explained it well.


OK.!... thx for the clarification....(my berner would surely starve in the wild he eats so much!)....


----------



## Flaming

Judy Chartrand said:


> I completely respect your choice, and your sister-in-law's. I love animals, so the choice of slaughtering them to feed ourselves, bothers me. I have tried gradually to move away from eating meat, but have not really gained a lot of ground.
> It would be difficult to feed a dog a vegan diet, but I try to give them more veggies, oats, barley...etc, than meat. However, they need a certain amount of protein to be healthy.


we both look at owners sideways if they feed their dog vegan or vegetarian. Yes dogs are scavengers but they do best when there is at least some form of meat fed. I prefer wild meat but if I can't get it, I aim for humanely slaughtered. We both grew up in families that raised and hunted meat and grew and gathered plants. 
Family farm slaughter doesn't really bother either of us, she went vegan from a combination of commercial meat raising and slaughter and a slight dislike of the meat taste. 
I like the taste but share the same feelings about the factory meat so I modify my meat intake to attempt to avoid factory meats.

We both feel people should know where all food comes from and she takes her 3 year old to the families beef ranch and we all grow at least some veggies. I don't have kids yet but I figure I'll do the same.
That kid had a pet cow for a bit when she was 1or2 (i can't remember) 

Life style wise we are very similar, the only differences are that I'm allergic to 2 plants and she doesn't eat animal products.

Though i did switch from baking animal ingredient bread to vegan bread because i prefer the texture and taste. Yummy


----------



## Tainted

Judy Chartrand said:


> I have to disagree with you on the veggies, dogs need veggies, and in the wild they do eat green vegetation. But as I stated in my quote, I make sure they get the protein they need, but dogs will over eat, and if you give them only meat, they will eat it all and more, so I mix in the veggies. They need the veggies. They also need fiber, which they do not get from meat.


They don't need vegetables. I know many, many people who feed prey model raw. The dogs get 0% vegetables, and do fantastic.

The over eating meat bit is BS. Don't use that as an excuse as to why you feed more vegetables. They won't over eat if you portion out the correct amount of meat each feeding.


----------



## Judy Chartrand

My dear, I think you are guessing here. I have done a tremendous amount of research, and have talk to vets about, and Holistic Vets, as well. They do need veggies. And I can definitely say those commercial dog foods have plenty of it. More often, not enough of protein, and more green. Sorry, but I am completely disagreeing with you on this one. Plus, if I give them the veggies they like, they love eating them. I disagree with dogs eating a 100% meat diet. I know owners, who have had dogs to live way up into their teens, and these dogs got much more than meats. It is a balance, just as it is with humans.

Oh, and it is difficult to get their portions just right, you cannot be perfect there. Sometimes one may not eat as much, and then the other dog wants to finish off the food. I don't know about you, but I don't have all day to sit down with them while they eat and pick it up afterwards. I cannot imagine anyone being so strict.


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## Judy Chartrand

My Vizsla is the same, (the scavenger)


----------



## Tainted

Judy Chartrand said:


> My dear, I think you are guessing here. I have done a tremendous amount of research, and have talk to vets about, and Holistic Vets, as well. They do need veggies. And I can definitely say those commercial dog foods have plenty of it. More often, not enough of protein, and more green. Sorry, but I am completely disagreeing with you on this one. Plus, if I give them the veggies they like, they love eating them. I disagree with dogs eating a 100% meat diet. I know owners, who have had dogs to live way up into their teens, and these dogs got much more than meats. It is a balance, just as it is with humans.


Guessing about..? 



> There is the age old debate of whether wolves/dogs are true carnivores and should have plant matter included in their diet. We here at PMR don’t believe they are a necessity. Will they harm your dogs? Probably not, maybe just a bit of digestive upset.* But are they necessary? Absolutely not.*


http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/


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## packetsmom

I guess I missed the herds of dogs grazing on the plains. 

Dogs, like small children, will eat almost anything that is put in front of them...that doesn't mean we should feed them just anything, but it does mean that just because they like something doesn't mean it is good for them. It's up to us as owners to do our own research and make the choices we feel are best for our dogs. I could see giving a dog a big of veggie for a treat, but I wouldn't make it a significant part of their diet. Just like I wouldn't let them live off of cheese, but I'd certainly give them some pieces.

I've always given my dogs scraps of meat, given the more recent research, I'll be giving them more raw meat, not less.


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## Judy Chartrand

Oh, since this thread was about dogs, that is all I inferred, as CATS are totally Carnivores.


----------



## Emily1188

I'm perplexed... my dogs have eaten a diet that is easily...95%(?) meat/bone/organ for years now and they seem to be flourishing? lol The vet knows what they eat and says their condition is fantastic. 

That's not to say they can't eat other things. They sure can! I have no problem with giving my dogs veggies and fruits, but I certainly don't rely on them. I've also given my Malinois oatmeal and rice when she was just too freakin' lean and I couldn't afford to feed her more meat. Nothing in particular against carbs either, and it did help her gain weight. I mean, let's be real, of course dogs can eat a lot of things, they're scavengers and garbage pickers. But IME most dogs benefit from and flourish on a diet that is primarily meat.


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## Sparkles123

Sometimes you have to feel compassion for misguided people....like this person....she's out there alright....

And my dogs eat eggs, hard boiled with the shell...and cheese, seldom...


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## PackMomma

Judy Chartrand said:


> My dear, I think you are guessing here. I have done a tremendous amount of research, and have talk to vets about, and Holistic Vets, as well. They do need veggies. And I can definitely say those commercial dog foods have plenty of it. More often, not enough of protein, and more green. Sorry, but I am completely disagreeing with you on this one. Plus, if I give them the veggies they like, they love eating them. I disagree with dogs eating a 100% meat diet. I know owners, who have had dogs to live way up into their teens, and these dogs got much more than meats. It is a balance, just as it is with humans.
> 
> Oh, and it is difficult to get their portions just right, you cannot be perfect there. Sometimes one may not eat as much, and then the other dog wants to finish off the food. I don't know about you, but I don't have all day to sit down with them while they eat and pick it up afterwards. I cannot imagine anyone being so strict.



It isn't a guess. Dogs don't require fruits and vegetables to have a balanced diet. Dogs are 'opportunistic' carnivores, which means they THRIVE on meat, and can survive on whatever they can scavenge if they were starving.. which would be vegetation.. key word here is 'survive'.. 

Vets, holistic or not, have very little education when it comes to diet and nutrition. So solely trusting any kind of veterenarian opinion on a dogs diet is just plain niave.. 

Vegetables, fruits and grains are really nothing more than a cheap filler used by commercial dog food companies, and a marketing scam.. making consumers believe they are needed in the diet. Yes, it is true, that in the wild, dogs will consume miniscule amounts of vegetation. Lets think about this a second, being in the 'wild'. Hmmm.. is it likely the vegetation a wild dog, or any kind of wild canid for that matter would be consuming the stomach contents of a kill, or maybe peices of grass that get stuck on the carcass while they are devouring it, or perhaps if they can't kill anything for days or weeks that they start eating bark or other plants.. or are they going to start going into peoples yards and digging up their gardens to get peas and carrots? I'm willing to bet its not the latter.

Both of my dogs are prey model raw fed.. the ONLY vegetation they consume in their diet is fresh green tripe. Which, if I need to point out, is the stomach and the contents of a herbivore.. green tripe has a lot of nutrients and digestive enzymes and makes a great supplement to a raw diet..because the vegetation has already been digested by the herbivore thus making it easily digested by the canine carnivore. Sure, I toss my pup a peice of carrot once in a while, and it comes out exactly the way it went in, because dogs digestive systems cant' really break down the cellulose walls of fruits/vegetables.. because.. they are carnivores. Cooked/pureed vegetables are digested easier, hence the stuff that they put in commercial foods.. but if we're going back to the thought of what they would consume in the wild.... OH yeah.. there probably not starting fires and cooking their own veggies. Also, cooking signifcantly breaks down the nutrients in vegetables, basically making them useless and the nutrients not readily absorbed by the body... 

I have no issue's if people choose to feed their dogs vegetables.. whatever, but I do have an issue with people preaching that they are a necessary part of a dogs diet. There is sufficient scientific evidence out there to prove that dogs are carnivores. My dogs are living proof that vegetables are not needed in a canine diet. They are incredibly healthy, and I need not mention that I've not had to spend a dime on a vet bill in years, and, the only vet bills i've had to spend any money on are neuters. I do, %100 credit my dogs' superior health to their diet.. that consists of zero veggies (I dont count the ones they eat on rare occasion that actually don't digest)


----------



## Emily1188

PackMomma said:


> Both of my dogs are prey model raw fed.. the ONLY vegetation they consume in their diet is fresh green tripe.


Mmmm my girls had tripe last night. Gotta love that smell!



PackMomma said:


> I have no issue's if people choose to feed their dogs vegetables.. whatever, but I do have an issue with people preaching that they are a necessary part of a dogs diet. There is sufficient scientific evidence out there to prove that dogs are carnivores. My dogs are living proof that vegetables are not needed in a canine diet. They are incredibly healthy, and I need not mention that I've not had to spend a dime on a vet bill in years.


Likewise.


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## Judy Chartrand

It is true, there is a big debate on whether dogs are carnivores or Omnivores. As they say, the proof is in the pudding (literally). My dogs will quickly eat other types of food, as quickly as they will eat meat. There are times when I have to say no to them. They will eat much more than meat. My Vizsla would eat pastries all day long and skip the meat, she has a sweet tooth, but I have to say no to her. If dogs are Carnivores, it would be apparent that they would ONLY eat meat. Our dogs Vet is very big on Veggies, and meat too, of course, but only lean meats.
I am posting a link in which I agree with this article. Dogs are omnivores
http://thewildsideblog.com/are-dogs-carnivores-or-omnivores/


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## Emily1188

Judy Chartrand said:


> It is true, there is a big debate on whether dogs are carnivores or Omnivores. As they say, the proof is in the pudding (literally). My dogs will quickly eat other types of food, as quickly as they will eat meat. There are times when I have to say no to them. They will eat much more than meat. My Vizsla would eat pastries all day long and skip the meat, she has a sweet tooth, but I have to say no to her. If dogs are Carnivores, it would be apparent that they would ONLY eat meat. Our dogs Vet is very big on Veggies, and meat too, of course, but only lean meats.
> I am posting a link in which I agree with this article. Dogs are omnivores
> http://thewildsideblog.com/are-dogs-carnivores-or-omnivores/


My cat eats chickpeas, green beans, apples... therefore cats are not carnivores, or they would not eat such things! 

No. lol. That is not a valid argument. Dogs are dumb about what they eat. My corgi just tried to eat a pen, that's not proof that dogs should eat pens. My dogs pretty much anything, they're dogs, they're scavengers and garbage pickers. That doesn't mean they should or must eat pens, bread crusts, or whatever else they find.

ETA: I have to disagree with the "lean meats" bit too, sorry, except for dogs that are overweight. Feed my two young girls "lean meats" and you'll have sacks of bones in a few weeks. I actually take the skins my roomie pulls off of her dog's chicken (he is overweight) and feed them to my dogs, lol. Fat is fuel for dogs and it's absolutely vital for good health IME. Bring on the fatty meats.


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## zeronightfarm

Dogs are opportunists, but one thing you can not argue with is their teeth. The are made for ripping and tearing, not grazing.


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## zeronightfarm

Emily1188 said:


> Dogs are dumb about what they eat. My corgi just tried to eat a pen, that's not proof that dogs should eat pens.


My dogs like to eat poop, so there fore they must need poop. ;P


----------



## BernerMax

zeronightfarm said:


> My dogs like to eat poop, so there fore they must need poop. ;P


 Yeah I would go cook a beautiful meal for my old dog (allergy ridden boxer) and then he would go out and eat poop.... And I would be like, why bother!!!! It does put things in perspective though...


----------



## PackMomma

Judy Chartrand said:


> Oh, since this thread was about dogs, that is all I inferred, as CATS are totally Carnivores.


Cats are obligatory carnivores. Dogs are opportunistic carnivores. Dont let this misguide you.. it simply means (like I already mentioned) that dogs can 'survive', not THRIVE, on vegetation if they were starving to death..to tie them over until they got the nutrients they need from meat, cats, however would probably die quite quickly. This is why many house cats still catch and eat mice and birds. Because they need it. Not getting sufficient amounts of it from commercial food.


----------



## Emily1188

zeronightfarm said:


> My dogs like to eat poop, so there fore they must need poop. ;P


UGH Keeva is a poop eater at work (daycare). Guess that makes her a poopivore.


----------



## RonE

Judy Chartrand said:


> Okay, I am officially, killing the thread.


It is much easier to raise up a dead thread than to kill it again. 

We'll call this one The Walking Thread.


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## Judy Chartrand

Okay, now we are getting crass. I am SPECIFICALLY going by what research says, and the VETS advice. And I am not preaching (PACKMOMMA) . However, I strongly believe that dogs need more than MEAT. I suppose it is ironic that it prevents the occurrence of pancreatitis, but meat can cause an attack, mainly if it has too much fat. Our Schnauzer who has Diabetes is maintaining his insulin levels since we have placed more veggies in his diet, as well as grains, such as Oats, barley. 

I consider myself quite intelligent, and would prefer an intelligent response. I don't want to hear about dogs eating pens. That may say something unpleasant about the owner. 
It isn't cute, at all, it just displays your questionable character.


----------



## PackMomma

No, dogs are NOT omnivores. If they were omnivores, they would have the teeth/skull structure to chomp/chew plant materials, and the digestive enzymes to break down the cellulose walls of veggies. They have the biological makeup of a carnivore, and nothing but. Plain and simple.

Like I said, go ahead and feed your dog vegetables, I really don't give a hoot what people choose to feed their dogs, but do not preach to us that know better and aren't niave and have fallen into the trap that many veterenarians and commercial food manufacturers have set up to make people believe that dogs NEED veggies in their diet. It just simply is not true. Go ahead and believe it if you want, but your wasting your time and energy trying to convince the majority here otherwise..


----------



## RonE

Judy Chartrand said:


> I consider myself quite intelligent, and would prefer an intelligent response. I don't want to hear about dogs eating pens. That may say something unpleasant about the owner.
> It isn't cute, at all, it just displays your questionable character.


You haven't been here long-enough to question anyone's character or, apparently, to read the rules about back-seat moderating. We don't tell other members what they can post (well, I do, but that's because I'm a moderator and that's what they pay me the big bucks to do) and we demonstrate our intelligence and experience. We don't ask members to just accept that on the same day you register.


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## Emily1188

Judy Chartrand said:


> Okay, now we are getting crass. I am SPECIFICALLY going by what research says, and the VETS advice. And I am not preaching (PACKMOMMA) . However, I strongly believe that dogs need more than MEAT. I suppose it is ironic that it prevents the occurrence of pancreatitis, but meat can cause an attack, mainly if it has too much fat. Our Schnauzer who has Diabetes is maintaining his insulin levels since we have placed more veggies in his diet, as well as grains, such as Oats, barley.
> 
> I consider myself quite intelligent, and would prefer an intelligent response. I don't want to hear about dogs eating pens. That may say something unpleasant about the owner.
> It isn't cute, at all, it just displays your questionable character.


LOL that was quite the stretch on your part. I said she "tried" to eat a pen, not that she did. 

Anyway...I take it you have no answer to the idea that animals, especially dogs, will try to eat a great many things that do not necessarily reflect their ideal diet? If you want an intelligent response you'll have to pose intelligent points. The idea that animals can be counted to select what best suits their nutritional needs is not thoughtful or realistic, IMO, as it reflects an unrealistic view of animals and their instincts, particularly with opportunistic animals like dogs. Lots of animals, humans included, readily eat things that do not reflect an ideal diet for their species.


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## PackMomma

Okay, since i'm a raw feeder, my arguement here comes from an entirely different point of view, so i'm better off keeping out of this. But it doesn't change the fact that dogs are carnivores. You don't see alot of dogs on a balanced raw diet getting diabetes, or pancreatitis, and no, veggies are not needed on a balanced raw diet. If feeding veggies to a commercial food fed dog helps with whatever health problem it has that is likely caused by their diet in the first place, then great.. but that still doesn't excuse that fact that dogs are carnivores, biologically, scientifically, genetically, carnivores.. our society has made dogs appear as omnivores because of the diets we feed them, but it doesn't make it 'biologically' correct.


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## Tainted

At this point, it's like talking to a brick wall.

You keep going on about your vets advice. My vet would recommend I feed that crap Science Diet if I were uneducated enough to do so. It makes no difference to me that your vet is big on vegetables. Most vets don't know squat when it comes to dog food.


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## Echofox

Tainted, you have some exceedingly gorgeous dogs there!
Just sayin'.


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## Tainted

Echofox said:


> Tainted, you have some exceedingly gorgeous dogs there!
> Just sayin'.


Thank you, Echofox.


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## BernerMax

Judy Chartrand said:


> I know it and Fromm's is one of the top rated dog foods. 5 star. If I remember, no controversial ingredients.


Well, except for EGGS and CHEESE
(sorry I JUST CANT RESIST)


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## packetsmom

My cats try to eat grass and houseplants. That does not make them herbivores or even omnivores. Animals eat what they can and have an amazing ability to survive on a less than ideal diet. Still, as their guardians, shouldn't we do our best to try to get them to stick to an ideal diet?

I trust breeders and other dog enthusiasts more when it comes to dietary advice. They tend to have more time to look into the pros and cons than your average veterinarian. (I used to work for one...and she was a bit too busy to do all the reading most people here do, but I'd trust her in a heartbeat if it came to a medical issue.)


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## DaisyDC

BernerMax said:


> Well, except for EGGS and CHEESE
> (sorry I JUST CANT RESIST)


And my dog loves them, just like she loves such healthy foods as horse manure and sourdough pretzels. And the horse? Would much rather eat a bucket of peppermints and gingersnaps than forage. And me? I'd like to exist on Chick-fil-a milkshakes and Chipotle burrito bowls. But guess what? None of those are a balanced, healthy diet. All of them are perfectly fine as occasional treats (well, except the manure) or on the run, but none of them are essential, or even what those animals need as part of their diets. I restrict myself to fastfood once a month, just like the dog gets a pretzel or bit of blueberry as a treat, and the horse gets a peppermint after a good ride. Its not about eating what's tasty--because food companies have spent a lot of time and money engineering things to taste good that have no nutritional value at all--it's about knowing what your system actually requires and fulfilling those needs.


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## Ron_Dog

Tainted said:


> Dogs don't need vegetables.. none.. at all. They need meat. While they _can_ eat certain fruits and vegetables, they're still carnivores animals. Just because you're trying to move away from eating meat, doesn't mean you should restrict the amount of meat you give to your dogs, and just replace it with more vegetables. I really hope you rethink the way you're feeding them.


 Dogs both domestic and wild are Omnivores! They eat what is available for them to eat. The coyotes here in the mid west are always eating pumpkins in the farmers patches,and you should see them in a picked watermelon field,eating the left over busted watermelons. They would eat meat only if it was available to them constantly (your dog would too),but they have to "forage" on whatever is available. It's natures way of keeping their diet in balance. If you think your dog is healthy,watch a coyote run wide open across a big section of land. They are a "land rocket" and running on alot of diffrent "fuel" in their diet.


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## Little Wise Owl

By some of the logic posted on here regarding what animals will and will not eat, all cats must be omnivores too. The common household feeds their cat dry food and all big name commercial cat foods contain 50% or less meat. Cats survive on these diets and lead seamingly "normal and healthy" lives. Clearly, this means cats are omnivores now too.


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## KBLover

Ron_Dog said:


> Dogs both domestic and wild are Omnivores! They eat what is available for them to eat. The coyotes here in the mid west are always eating pumpkins in the farmers patches,and you should see them in a picked watermelon field,eating the left over busted watermelons. They would eat meat only if it was available to them constantly (your dog would too),but they have to "forage" on whatever is available. It's natures way of keeping their diet in balance. If you think your dog is healthy,watch a coyote run wide open across a big section of land. They are a "land rocket" and running on alot of diffrent "fuel" in their diet.


I haven't heard the foraging angle, but what I have heard about wild dogs and such is that they likely eat the digested plant material from herbivores that are often their prey. That is why boiling vegetables (to break the cell walls dogs can't digest) is advised if you do want to feed veggies. 

That said, eating what's available - wouldn't that just make them opportunists? I mean "what's available" might not be all that good for them, but if it looks edible and smells safe (i.e. not rotten)...



P.S. I regret missing this thread back when it started. I guess back then dog food was the last thing on my mind. I had lot of LOLz reading those early posts.


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## Ron_Dog

KBLover said:


> I haven't heard the foraging angle, but what I have heard about wild dogs and such is that they likely eat the digested plant material from herbivores that are often their prey. That is why boiling vegetables (to break the cell walls dogs can't digest) is advised if you do want to feed veggies.
> 
> That said, eating what's available - wouldn't that just make them opportunists? I mean "what's available" might not be all that good for them, but if it looks edible and smells safe (i.e. not rotten)...
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. I regret missing this thread back when it started. I guess back then dog food was the last thing on my mind. I had lot of LOLz reading those early posts.



om·ni·vore

[ ómnə vàwr ] 


1.animal that eats anything: an animal that will feed on any type or many different types of food, including both plants and animals.


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## marsha=whitie

It seems like some people are confusing OPPORTUNIST CARNIVORE to OMNIVORE. Yeah, canines might eat plants at times, but it is not the IDEAL diet. In a perfect world, they would eat meat for every meal... but sometimes their prey slips away, and they have to settle for whats around them (plants, etc.) Thus, they are opportunistic carnivores.


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## Little Wise Owl

Ron_Dog said:


> Dogs both domestic and wild are Omnivores!


Dogs are debatable, I guess but to say that their wild counterpart, the wolf (and heck, even the Dingo) is simply wrong. These animals are one in the same species. They all share nearly identical DNA and internal anatomy. The Grey Wolf (Canis lupus) is a carnivore. They specialize in hunting and killing. This is a fact. Now, I won't deny that they willingly ingest some plant matter it does not make up a large portion of their diet. At least not enough to warrant them omnivores. Remember, the cat family also frequently grazes on greens and grasses willingly as well. This does not make them omnivores either. 

Dogs, in my opinion, are simply adapted carnivores. They retain their carnivorous anatomy but have adapted to the omnivore lifestyle (i.e. Some breeds producing up to 20 more copies of amylase than wolves). But just because they have adapted to eating plant matter does not mean they require it. It just simply means that they can ingest, digest and even possibly benefit from it. 

To say dogs NEED vegetation is false. To say a dog can eat and potentially benefit from vegetation would be the better answer.


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## fuzzy4

Well now I dont know what to do with that western omelet I made for the dog.


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## Tainted

Dogs, by genetics, are carnivores. Dogs bodies are optimized for eating meat. Dogs teeth and digestive systems confirm it.

Seriously, whether you believe they’re carnivores or omnivores, they're still carnivorous bias. They should have a primarily meat-based diet. They DO NOT NEED vegetables.


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## SydTheSpaniel

There was a debate about whether dogs are carnivores or omnivores on the Penn Foster Veterinary Technicians facebook page the other night... I kinda just gave up after awhile because this person would not back down on the fact that she insisted dogs NEEDED vegetables in their diet... you know, despite all of the scientific evidence that backed it up and all.


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## Little Wise Owl

I feel like you could talk and debate until you're red in the face but it's like talking to a brick wall.

I will continue feeding my dogs a primarily carnivorous diet with minimal vegetation until someone can prove up and down that dogs absolutely REQUIRE it in their diet.


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## Tainted

Hell, I feed kibble that contains small amounts of fruits and vegetables. Potatoes, apples, carrots and tomatoes to be exact, according to the ingredients. But, don't tell me if I decided to feed PMR that my dogs would require vegetables along with it. Just ain't true.


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## Emily1188

Hell, I just feed my dogs what works for us. They look great, have great energy, awesome coats, clean teeth... and they've been that way for years. I can't imagine what suddenly upping their veggie intake to a substantial amount is going to do. 

My Belgian looked like total crap when I got her. Not emaciated but underweight (ribs and spine and hip bones, oh my!), coat was total crap (barely any undercoat, full of dandruff, thin and breaking all over the place). She had chronic diarrhea as well. 

I put her back on track with green tripe (lots of green tripe...everyday) and probiotics, and then added chicken, beef, turkey, pork, fresh eggs, "oily" fishes like salmon and sardines. She's in excellent condition now, still lean but appropriately so, with a thick, shiny coat, healthy digestion, plenty of muscle. I'm not saying veggies would have HURT her but she obviously didn't need them to get back into great condition. *shrug* Must be doing something right. lol


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## BernerMax

Emily1188 said:


> Hell, I just feed my dogs what works for us. They look great, have great energy, awesome coats, clean teeth... and they've been that way for years. I can't imagine what suddenly upping their veggie intake to a substantial amount is going to do.
> 
> My Belgian looked like total crap when I got her. Not emaciated but underweight (ribs and spine and hip bones, oh my!), coat was total crap (barely any undercoat, full of dandruff, thin and breaking all over the place). She had chronic diarrhea as well.
> 
> I put her back on track with green tripe (lots of green tripe...everyday) and probiotics, and then added chicken, beef, turkey, pork, fresh eggs, "oily" fishes like salmon and sardines. She's in excellent condition now, still lean but appropriately so, with a thick, shiny coat, healthy digestion, plenty of muscle. I'm not saying veggies would have HURT her but she obviously didn't need them to get back into great condition. *shrug* Must be doing something right. lol


 HHHMMMM anyone know if cats will eat green tripe, the kitties are on probiotics but still have bad gas and diahrea....


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## Emily1188

BernerMax said:


> HHHMMMM anyone know if cats will eat green tripe, the kitties are on probiotics but still have bad gas and diahrea....


My cat will! 

But see my other posts, he's dumb and he eats anything, LOL! I don't know about normal cats.


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## Little Wise Owl

My cats love green tripe.


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## BernerMax

Emily1188 said:


> My cat will!
> 
> But see my other posts, he's dumb and he eats anything, LOL! I don't know about normal cats.


Well I will think on it, maybe grab some next time I go to the Pet store...


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## HollowHeaven

Dogs are opportunistic carnivores.
If a dog is starving and HAS to eat SOMETHING, of course it's going to go for plants or fruits or trash or whatever's laying around. 
A dog might enjoy the taste of some fruits and vegetables and grains (my dogs greatly enjoy rice and strawberries and tomatoes)
But that does not mean it's a good diet for them.

Feeding a dog very little meat and a buttload of non-meat products... I can't imagine they'd do well on that all. Take away all the meat, and I'm not sure how they could live.


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## Willowy

Little Wise Owl said:


> My cats love green tripe.


Mine too! I bought some for the dogs but the cats co-opted it, LOL.

A bear is an omnivore. Humans are omnivores. A bear's teeth are very much like a dog's. . .except they have flat surfaces on their back teeth for grinding plant matter, just like humans. Dogs have no flat surfaces for grinding plant matter. They aren't obligate carnivores like cats and ferrets (most of whom survive on largely plant-based diets nowadays, thanks to heavy supplementation, although they also end up with diseases from it), but they are carnivores. Can't argue with anatomy.


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## Kathyy

Some dogs do do better with veggies and other plant foods. Some prey model raw feeders do decide to offer some veggies in addition to meat/bone/organ and notice they prefer the dog on such. My dog, no. He gets amazing eye boogers if he eats grains. I let him finish off my oatmeal last week thinking it was rice and wheat that did it but nope, more major eye boogers. He loves the stuff and I feel so bad not sharing my 'pizza bones' and left over rice with him but it has to be uncomfortable getting messy eyes like that. And the last time I gave him veggies on purpose they came out completely unchanged - and it was canned pumpkin. He does better than fine on meat, bones and organs. Poops are fine, fur is amazing considering what it used to look like, he is stronger and on and on. The usual raw is good stuff.

Max is not a particularly healthy dog. He has had oxalate crystals form in stale urine. Oxalates are found plant foods, not meat.
He has had seizures brought on by stress. Some dogs are poor at synthesizing taurine, low taurine can cause seizures. Once the vet thought he heard a very ominous heart sound, one that leads to a particular kind of heart failure that can be caused by low taurine. Raw is high in taurine. Plant foods, not so much.

And the tricky part? I thought he was just fine on grainy kibble and low protein. Good poop, liked it fine, didn't have bad breath or stinky fur.

Have you seen that study on dog/wolf DNA? Dogs have more copies of the sequence that produces amylase than wolves? Dogs have 4-30 copies, wolves 2. Dogs can handle carbs better than wolves but the amount they handle well varies a great deal. This supports your view that dogs are omnivores better than the blog you posted and also may explain why some dogs just don't do well on grainy foods.
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/01/dog-domestication-tied-to-starch.html?ref=hp

We humans put animals into such categories as carnivore, omnivore, herbivore, detritivore, piscivore and on and on. They are just very general labels to make it easier to sort the vast numbers of critters out there. What matters is feeding your animals the best food for them. Mine, no grains or veggies, if yours do well on them then fine.


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## BernerMax

kathyy said:


> some dogs do do better with veggies and other plant foods. Some prey model raw feeders do decide to offer some veggies in addition to meat/bone/organ and notice they prefer the dog on such. My dog, no. He gets amazing eye boogers if he eats grains. I let him finish off my oatmeal last week thinking it was rice and wheat that did it but nope, more major eye boogers. He loves the stuff and i feel so bad not sharing my 'pizza bones' and left over rice with him but it has to be uncomfortable getting messy eyes like that. And the last time i gave him veggies on purpose they came out completely unchanged - and it was canned pumpkin. He does better than fine on meat, bones and organs. Poops are fine, fur is amazing considering what it used to look like, he is stronger and on and on. The usual raw is good stuff.
> 
> Max is not a particularly healthy dog. He has had oxalate crystals form in stale urine. Oxalates are found plant foods, not meat.
> He has had seizures brought on by stress. Some dogs are poor at synthesizing taurine, low taurine can cause seizures. Once the vet thought he heard a very ominous heart sound, one that leads to a particular kind of heart failure that can be caused by low taurine. Raw is high in taurine. Plant foods, not so much.
> 
> And the tricky part? I thought he was just fine on grainy kibble and low protein. Good poop, liked it fine, didn't have bad breath or stinky fur.
> 
> Have you seen that study on dog/wolf dna? Dogs have more copies of the sequence that produces amylase than wolves? Dogs have 4-30 copies, wolves 2. Dogs can handle carbs better than wolves but the amount they handle well varies a great deal. This supports your view that dogs are omnivores better than the blog you posted and also may explain why some dogs just don't do well on grainy foods.
> http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/01/dog-domestication-tied-to-starch.html?ref=hp
> 
> we humans put animals into such categories as carnivore, omnivore, herbivore, detritivore, piscivore and on and on. They are just very general labels to make it easier to sort the vast numbers of critters out there. What matters is feeding your animals the best food for them. Mine, no grains or veggies, if yours do well on them then fine.


and thats a grt explanation for a good answer --thx!!!!!


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## sassafras

A couple of things to keep in mind about "natural" diets, too, is that 1. evolution isn't about achieving a healthy old age (it's about surviving long enough to reproduce) 2. There is a tremendous amount of individual variation in any population in all body systems (that's why some people get terribly sick from narcotics and for other people they're good pain relievers without side effects). 

So there may be foods that while they are not strictly "needed" are beneficial to an animal (especially generalists) that were never part of their "natural" diet, and it's very likely there is no such thing as an ideal diet for a generalist species as a whole. Antioxidants found in many fruits and veggies, for example, or omega fatty acids in cold water fish are beneficial to most species whether they evolved to eat them or not.


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## Emily1188

sassafras said:


> A couple of things to keep in mind about "natural" diets, too, is that 1. evolution isn't about achieving a healthy old age (it's about surviving long enough to reproduce) 2. There is a tremendous amount of individual variation in any population in all body systems (that's why some people get terribly sick from narcotics and for other people they're good pain relievers without side effects).
> 
> So there may be foods that while they are not strictly "needed" are beneficial to an animal (especially generalists) that were never part of their "natural" diet, and it's very likely there is no such thing as an ideal diet for a generalist species as a whole. Antioxidants found in many fruits and veggies, for example, or omega fatty acids in cold water fish are beneficial to most species whether they evolved to eat them or not.


I totally buy that. That is part of why I DO occasionally feed veggies, but I admit it's a relatively small percent of my dogs' diets.

Especially since they make Blossom gassy. *gag*


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## sassafras

I don't make a huge effort to include a lot of fruits or veggies in my dogs' diets, either, unless I'm trying to add bulk/fiber when they're on a diet... but I have zero problem with them. Like I said, probably not strictly needed but probably beneficial anyway IMO.


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## CoverTune

KBLover said:


> I haven't heard the foraging angle, but what I have heard about wild dogs and such is that they likely eat the digested plant material from herbivores that are often their prey.


What I've heard is that it's been noted that wolves/wild dogs have actually been seen either leaving behind the stomach and intestines of prey, or actually grabbing and shaking these organs, effectively removing the contents. If that's the case, then they're really not consuming the plant digest.


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## hueyeats

I don't think there is any indication of pure egg and cheese as sole diet for dogs in anyone's mind.

If one think and be logical..
While egg may be cheap... how many people will actually pay $5 and up a lb for cheese?
Grocery Cheddar is $2.50 - $3 for 8 oz on sale... good cheese? way more.

Even raw feeding would be cheaper in this economy than cheese.
Meat for chicken at pricer rate is still at $2, beef $2.50 (sale) and up.
So no idiot will feed dogs on solely egg & cheese... not logical.


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## Willowy

Well, if you have chickens, it might be tempting to give your dog an egg-heavy diet . And egg is good animal protein; if you had a severely allergic dog, you could probably make a balanced egg-based diet with the help of a nutritionist. Cheese, not so much . 

No matter how many antioxidants/nutrients/etc. are in fruits and veggies, it won't do any good if the animal can't assimilate those nutrients. For example, cats and beta-carotene. Cats simply cannot make vitamin A out of beta-carotene. You can give them carrots and pumpkin all day and call the diet balanced because it contains plenty of beta-carotene (which will satisfy most species' vitamin A requirements), but a cat on that diet will suffer from vitamin A deficiency---they need animal-based vitamin A sources. There are probably other examples like that, but that's the one I'm most familiar with. Any carrots in a cat food (and there are lots) are purely to look fancy for the humans .


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## sassafras

Well it's a good thing no one in this thread is advocating feeding cats carrots and pumpkins all day long, then.


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## Willowy

I did say there are probably other similar examples, too . Nutrients aren't always nutrients. . .


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## KuroSaya

Judy Chartrand said:


> My dear, I think you are guessing here. I have done a tremendous amount of research, and have talk to vets about, and Holistic Vets, as well. They do need veggies. And I can definitely say those commercial dog foods have plenty of it. More often, not enough of protein, and more green. Sorry, but I am completely disagreeing with you on this one. Plus, if I give them the veggies they like, they love eating them. I disagree with dogs eating a 100% meat diet. I know owners, who have had dogs to live way up into their teens, and these dogs got much more than meats. It is a balance, just as it is with humans.
> 
> Oh, and it is difficult to get their portions just right, you cannot be perfect there. Sometimes one may not eat as much, and then the other dog wants to finish off the food. I don't know about you, but I don't have all day to sit down with them while they eat and pick it up afterwards. I cannot imagine anyone being so strict.


It isn't difficult to get raw diet or home cooked diet portions right if you do your research. Saya gets 5 to 7oz a day most times it's 6oz.. She does well on it and I keep feeding her 2% of her weight.

How do you know the dog gets enough veggies? 

To me if you need to cook and grind veggies in order for the dog to get nutrients what is the point?

I rather just give whole rabbits, quail, and raw green tripe.. 



> They also need fiber, which they do not get from meat.


Actually fur and feathers do sorta act like a type of fiber I guess.. Fed Saya a groundhog leg that had some fur on it and well she had fur mixed in the poop.. 

Bone helps keep poo firm..

Funny this thread is a joke thread on eggs and cheese not are dogs omnivore or carnivore..

I see dogs as opportunistic carnivore.

I also see any need of veggies or fruit as more of a supplement type thing not part of diet.

http://youtu.be/T-39iXlitGM

http://youtu.be/sQOQdBLHrLk
I guess deer are omnivores or maybe zombies?


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## aiw

Judy Chartrand said:


> It is true, there is a big debate on whether dogs are carnivores or Omnivores. As they say, the proof is in the pudding (literally). *My dogs will quickly eat other types of food, as quickly as they will eat meat.* There are times when I have to say no to them. They will eat much more than meat. My Vizsla would eat pastries all day long and skip the meat, she has a sweet tooth, but I have to say no to her. *If dogs are Carnivores, it would be apparent that they would ONLY eat meat.* Our dogs Vet is very big on Veggies, and meat too, of course, but only lean meats.
> I am posting a link in which I agree with this article. Dogs are omnivores
> http://thewildsideblog.com/are-dogs-carnivores-or-omnivores/


 The bolded is really not evidence of anything. Our one dog will eat poop if given the chance. Doesn't mean that its an integral or necessary part of her diet. She also snaps up chocolate if we're careless...


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