# curing dog of gun shyness



## Carl Snider (Mar 2, 2011)

Does anyone know a training expert that has cured a gun shy dog. I need to talk to them and hopefully get some good answers. I've read up on it and have ideas, but I need info from someone that has actually cured a dog of gunshyness or perhaps fear of any loud noise i.e. thunder 

I bought a 10 mo. old black lab pup and began training. I have had her about 5 months and recently tryed to introduce her to a popping noise. I ran around in the back yard with her and had my grandson shoot a black powder pistol with only the caps (no powder). This is like a slightly loud cap gun. It spooked her. My question has to do with conditioning her to accept noises. Do I start with noises that seem not to bother her at all or should I start with a noise that gets a slight negative reaction. My idea is to treat her right after the noise, throw a bumper or load her into the truck cab. 

For example, if I drop her hard plastic food dish on the concrete from 2 or 3 feet I cannot detect a negative reaction. On the otherhand if I drop a small aluminum square on the concrete from 2 inches it startles her. She doesn't like it. However, in both cases she will stay close to get her treat. 

What's the answer? Is there a better remedy? 

By the way, she comes from a good blood line. The father has passed AKC grand twice without failure and has won a QAA. The mother has passed 5 of 7 AKC master retriever tests. 
I can also reward her by throwing a bumper or even jumping into the truck.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well cut out the black powder/cap pistol type stuff as there have been many young dogs gunshyed by such silly stuff. Stop dropping stuff because you are enhancing the problem. Some idiots years ago decided to tell people that shooting a cap gun over their new pup while pup was eating would somehow desensitize pup against future gunshyness. The problem with that approach is the pups that make it through the cap pistol are probably the type that you could take to an artillery range and not have a problem. The what I call iffy pups are the ones that if birds were introduced first there would have been no problems.

I have had success with a couple dogs by getting them on wild birds and after the dog/dogs were chasing flushed birds/pheasants like their life depended on catching the bird and then firing a 22 blank pistol and the gunshy dogs were so busy on the chase they never heard the shot. Then gradually graduating to one shot from a shotgun. So on and so forth.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I agree with Wvasko, get the dog doing something he/she REALLY enjoys (aka flushing, retrieving, dockdiving whatever) THEN intro the popping noises using a small caliber OR a cap and gradually build the sound. 

The alternative for me would be a record shots and play them on a VERY low setting (as in barely audible to you) gradually increasing the sound. I know of people who've had success with desensitizing their dogs (and horses) to fireworks this way. 

Using caps or popping bags with no prior reenforcer or in an enclosed area is a good way to cause a fearful dog (and many pups go through a fear period at around 9-10 months anyhow) no need to increase chances of a gun-shy dog


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

You could record the sound of different guns and rifles, as well as pots and pans clanging and put it on for her to listen to, on a really low volume. The volume has to be low enough that she doesn't react to it, but is aware that it's there. Gradually (over several days or weeks, depending on what she's comfy with) increase the volume of the recording.

Once it's on really loud and she doesn't care, you can try taking her somewhere where people are firing actual guns/rifles, and keep her at a distance she is comfortable with. You should also take her favourite treats and give her one every time there is a really loud noise.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Agree with WVasko.. he has done field trials and hunting and has the experience breaking dogs into gun noises. 

Get the dog in DRIVE and build that DRIVE and then, only then, introduce popping noises while the dog is in DRIVE. Stop what you are doing now because you are creating a gun shy dog (and doing so thinking you are doing the right thing). 

As for the recordings.. I am glad they work for someone. Nothing recorded ever worked for me. Dog knew the difference every time. Ignored the recording and still was reactive in real life.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Elana55 said:


> As for the recordings.. I am glad they work for someone. Nothing recorded ever worked for me. Dog knew the difference every time. Ignored the recording and still was reactive in real life.


I've only heard about the recorded programs to cure gunshyness. Have heard from some people that they worked. Worth a try if you have a dog who is afflicted.

Carl, it doesn't sound like you have an intractable problem...yet. She sounds uncharacteristically sensitive to noise--for a Lab--but not quite ruined. Get some live pigeons and clip the primary flight feathers. Put a pigeons on the ground inside a fenced area. Better yet, toss it in the air and let it flutter to the ground. Encourage the dog to chase the bird, and let her mouth/bite/crunch/shake at will. When the sight of a live bird sends her over the moon with excitement, have somebody touch off a cap gun (stickum caps--nothing louder) from at least 50 yards away, while she is doing her worst with her victim. If she reacts to that--in the slightest--fire your next cap from 100 yards. Only fire the cap gun when she is in a bird induced frenzy, and move closer with the cap gun as tolerated. When you're ready to move up to .22 blanks, move the gun back to the 50 yard mark and start the process over.

At some point you should be seeing that the pup has made the association that GUN = BIRD, and she hears the sound of the gun as a happy sound. At that point you can speed things up--but still cautiously. Make haste slowly.


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## Britt & Bello (Apr 14, 2011)

The only time Brittany my Jack Russell wasn't scared of loud noises (thunder, guns) was when my brother shot a squirrell that she had treed. She didn't care at all about the noise and just wanted it. That said, luckily your problem isn't to bad, my neighbor got a chocolate lab specifically for duck hunting. I don't know what lines he was from but he ended up being scared of ducks. ;D


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Years ago and even now I suppose (have written this before) they used the gunshy dog in kennel and salt the dog and every time the dog would attempt to drink water fire a shot which for 3 or 4 days the dog would stop drinking , water then removed and later put back in and same program. Eventually the dog drank water and shot fired and dog did not care. Only problem was when dog was loose such as in a hunting program and shot was fired dog was gone. I'm sure that somewhere somehow a dog or dogs might have been cured using this program, I just never heard/saw one. 

Just as I'm sure the recordings might work with some dogs but have never witnessed it myself, using the bird program is more foolproof because if the dog does not have the drives necessary to become a bird dog the gun means little anyway. The actual training and fixing of problem is also done outside where you can read dogs actions/reactions etc.

Many fine young dogs are gunshyed by the owners taking them out with their cronies and a bird pops up and young dog is chasing and the 1st 1 or 2 or even sometimes 3 shots fired(on one bird) no problem but at whatever shot it is there will be a flinching of dog and by 6th or 7th shot a fine young dog is in the next county ruined. I have always told young dog owners "if you want meat go to a butcher shop, if you want to build a bird dog knock the bird down one shot only, if you miss let the bird go with dog chasing bird" Oh also leave buddies who have no control over shooting home.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm glad for this thread, as I have a gun shy dog, I didn't know she was scared of them til OH shot a snake around the pond one time & she ran for the tall timbers lol (back home) the funny thing is the puppy didn't even care lol.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm not a gundog person.... I was under the impression that the gundog breeders/ trainers (they breed and sell trained dogs) expose 3 - 4 week old puppies to noise and guns, etc., so by the time the owners pick the trained dogs, noise is not an issue. However, I like the prey drive method... I think my dog would learn to fetch the gun, if I'd get him a squirrel.

I don't believe that there is one proven reliable method for thunder that works for all dogs. Introduction of recorded sounds only works for a limited number of dogs (it's worth trying).... but i wonder if a squirrel ... followed by thunder would work  I don't think the dog would be scared of squirrels ;-)


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

hanksimon said:


> I'm not a gundog person.... I was under the impression that the gundog breeders/ trainers (they breed and sell trained dogs) expose 3 - 4 week old puppies to noise and guns, etc., so by the time the owners pick the trained dogs, noise is not an issue. However, I like the prey drive method... I think my dog would learn to fetch the gun, if I'd get him a squirrel.
> 
> I don't believe that there is one proven reliable method for thunder that works for all dogs. Introduction of recorded sounds only works for a limited number of dogs (it's worth trying).... but i wonder if a squirrel ... followed by thunder would work  I don't think the dog would be scared of squirrels ;-)


I'm not saying it ain't so, but old school trainers/breeders that I personally knew and I always made bird dogs 1st and then introduced shots. Done properly the dogs never heard the shots. I should always put a disclaimer cause I know nothing about procedures done now.

Think common sense though 3 to 4 week old pups might have problems with loud noises on certain days.




> I think my dog would learn to fetch the gun, if I'd get him a squirrel.


That says it all.

Another method that is used a lot is take the dog to the local gun club and just tie-em to the car/truck bumper and shoot a couple rounds of skeet. Then if that dog does Ok you tell everybody that's the way to do it. You never hear about the dog who is as far underneath the car as he can possibly get to hide/escape from the gun shots.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

My other dog, Kazi a GSD of working lines, was fearless of sound until the day Lightning hit the barn kLightning rods (it was a feeder) and we ALL got shocked.. Cows, hired man got knocked across the milkhouse (leaning on the SS bulk tank, standing on a wet floor and the tank was cemented into the floor). After that, Loud Noises = getting shocked and Kazi, the best dog I ever had, was very scared. Add to the my Ex tossed fire crackers at her to tease her (yeah.. he got to be an X for a reason). 

Years later.. I was divorced and Kazi got a new job as a hearing dog for my Dad. He would take a .22 magnum and go and shoot squirrels. Kazi would see the gun and KNEW it made noise because she saw me shoot when I was on the farm. Still she went with my Dad... and the first time he shot the gun they were following a Squirrel in a tree. KAzi was on the squirrel and he shot.. and she flinched.. until she saw the squirrel hit the ground and she was all over that. After that she went with him eagerly when he had the gun.. and when he put it to his shoulder to shoot she squinted her eyes.. I swear if she was human she would have covered her ears.. but the instant he fired she was off and on the squirrel (or looking back at him accusingly if he missed). Kazi was an exceptional dog with exceptional intellect.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Apparently, thunder and gunfire can be two distinct fears. I've heard of solid gundogs who turn to jello at the sound of thunder. I guess it's like teh zombies. Zombies in captivity are no problem for me, but free range zombies scare me senseless.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Marsh Muppet said:


> Apparently, thunder and gunfire can be two distinct fears. I've heard of solid gundogs who turn to jello at the sound of thunder. I guess it's like teh zombies. Zombies in captivity are no problem for me, but free range zombies scare me senseless.


I was going to say most guns don't shake the ground and air like thunder but then I thought or a .10 Ga and maybe I am wrong. LOL

Yes to the Zombies. I want them caged.


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## Irishman (May 13, 2011)

Metallic sounds generally seem more startling to dogs. If I drop a metal dog dish it really scares my dogs. They bolt in all directions. So I try to never drop those dishes. My question would be if it's necessary for your dog to be close to firing guns. I don't even shoot a 22 without ear protection, and can't think that a dog will appreciate the same, given their enhanced hearing. My preferred gun is my 44 Mag revolver, and I definitely wouldn't shoot that around my dogs unless the situation was dire. 

I'm not an expert on guns and dogs together, but it would seem reasonable that a dog kept around while shooting would be a deaf dog in a few years. Perhaps if you take her with you, someone could stay at the truck with her while others shoot, or you might bring her crate or a leash.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Irishman said:


> I'm not an expert on guns and dogs together, but it would seem reasonable that a dog kept around while shooting would be a deaf dog in a few years. Perhaps if you take her with you, someone could stay at the truck with her while others shoot, or you might bring her crate or a leash.


Presumably, this dog is being trained as a hunting retriever. It's hard for a dog to retrieve birds if she doesn't see them being shot, which means she would have to be there when the gun goes off.

FWIW, I've never known a hunting dog that went deaf any younger than any other pet dog.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Willowy said:


> Presumably, this dog is being trained as a hunting retriever. It's hard for a dog to retrieve birds if she doesn't see them being shot, which means she would have to be there when the gun goes off.
> 
> FWIW, I've never known a hunting dog that went deaf any younger than any other pet dog.


I think he might have misunderstood my reply about dogs being tied to truck/car etc. The tying of a dog to a bumper was done to desensitize the dogs and it was a pretty stupid method.


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