# Male not interested in female



## merlin3_1 (Mar 25, 2014)

Hello,

I am asking to see if this has happened to anyone else. Both were vet checked prior to being paired together. This is the first time I've seen a male so disinterested since we began breeding Labradors. The female started proestrus 11 days ago and is still showing red discharge. The male has been introduced and monitored with her but has not really tried to mount. I have tried holding her but he doesn't respond any different. This would be his first time breeding and she has had 2 previous litters for her previous owner. We bought her in January and she's five. I'm wondering what others would do. I have the option of our proven stud but prefer this younger dog for multiple reasons. I had another breeder tell me she lets them live together? What would you do?


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## merlin3_1 (Mar 25, 2014)

Bumping up:bump:


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I have no help to offer but have you had her progesterone checked?


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Where are your dogs listed on OFA for their health certs for hips, eyes, elbows, and EIC?


http://www.offa.org/search.html?btnSearch=Advanced+Search

That may be able to help us answer your question.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

Rescued said:


> Where are your dogs listed on OFA for their health certs for hips, eyes, elbows, and EIC?
> 
> 
> http://www.offa.org/search.html?btnSearch=Advanced+Search
> ...


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## merlin3_1 (Mar 25, 2014)

keechak: she was vet checked last Friday and her progesterone levels were normal for pro estrus.

Rescued: I am not sure how that would keep him from trying. She is good and clear on everything. I would have to go to storage to get her exact data. He is clear on CNM and EIC by parentage as his sire and dam are. His hips looked good to excellent by our vet. We just had his OFA sent out but didn't want to miss this heat. He will be 2 in May and she turned 5 in December. We've had him since he was born but just got her in January to pair with him. Her previous owner bred her twice. I already had one person ask if he wears a rainbow collar.

I think I will let them share the back yard together. I feel like she is too shy to breed with us watching. That's what a breeding friend of ours has done since 1978, she pairs them and let's them live together for the month prior to heat, the heat and the month just after.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

OMG! I think my ex husband turned into a dog!!!!!


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

spotted nikes said:


> OMG! I think my ex husband turned into a dog!!!!!


I just laughed so hard at this I almost spit coffee all over my desk.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

> What would you do?


I'd have both dogs spayed / neutered asap, and leave the breeding for others who actually know what they're doing. Seriously.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

petpeeve said:


> I'd have both dogs spayed / neutered asap, and leave the breeding for others who actually know what they're doing. Seriously.


So far we have no evidence that this person DOESN'T know what they are doing.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Kayota said:


> So far we have no evidence that this person DOESN'T know what they are doing.


 Well, they're HERE, asking questions that any good breeder would likely never ask. That's evidence enough for me.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

they asked one question... already talked to a fellow breeder, clearly understand terminology and have experience. maybe theyre breeding hunting dogs, you just dont know.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

petpeeve said:


> Well, they're HERE, asking questions that any good breeder would likely never ask. That's evidence enough for me.


Not every breeder knows every thing about everything if we did we would be gods. The forum appears to be a last resort of information for the OP, since there may be good breeders on here who have dealt with a similar situation it's not outrageous to consider asking on here.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I am not a breeder of cats or dogs - BUT, when I first brought home my neutered male cat and introduced him to my females, nothing happened (as expected, after all he's neutered right?) Well, a few months living together and when my intact female went into heat one month, he mounted her and they did the deed right there in the hallway. 

They would have made beautiful kittens - but kittens were not the outcome I wanted from my cats.
Anyway, my point is that they had to establish a relationship before they would get their funk on. It's quite possible that your dogs are in the same boat.
I would house them together and let them live side by side as you would any other pet.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

merlin3_1 said:


> The female started proestrus 11 days ago and is still showing red discharge.


 I'm certainly not a god, but. 

Proestrus phase typically lasts 13 days. She cannot conceive while still in the proestrus phase (only during the estrus phase), and therefore mother nature has set things up so she's unreceptive at that time and males are largely disinterested as well. The red discharge should be a big red flag whereby even the ungodly could tell she's just not ready yet. So too, would the male's disinterest. This type of basic stuff is all on the very first page of the manual, along with testing for flagging.

I'm a firm believer in mentoring strictly through other, responsible, knowledgeable, experienced breeders who by all rights should be *personal friends* at our disposal when the need for information and education arises. Which totally negates the need to ask strangers on a forum any silly questions where the answers are really ... fundamental, imo.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

petpeeve said:


> I'm certainly not a god, but.
> 
> Proestrus phase typically lasts 13 days. She cannot conceive while still in the proestrus phase (only during the estrus phase), and therefore mother nature has set things up so she's unreceptive at that time and males are largely disinterested as well. The red discharge should be a big red flag whereby even the ungodly could tell she's just not ready yet. So too, would the male's disinterest. This type of basic stuff is all on the very first page of the manual, along with testing for flagging.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in mentoring strictly through other, responsible, knowledgeable, experienced breeders who by all rights should be *personal friends* at our disposal when the need for information and education arises. Which totally negates the need to ask strangers on a forum any silly questions where the answers are really ... fundamental, imo.


So your hunch is BYB too then? Thought it smelled fishy, but figured best to stand back a bit and watch how things play out.


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## merlin3_1 (Mar 25, 2014)

I came here for help with something no one here has ever seen. And some have given help and I thank them. I also must thank *Spotted Nikes *for a great laugh! 

I did go to other "breeder buddies" about this and one even came over. I guess they wanted to see it with their own eyes. I had one tell me to buy him a rainbow collar LOL. But none of them have seen that behavior before. Aside from them I also asked both of our vets and had one standing by to aid in AI should it prove necessary. One told me to house them together as she may be shy. At any rate technically Proestrus can last as little as 1 day or as long as 17 days. but all my previous males still would TRY to "Court" during this phase/stage. But he wasn't.

I took her to the vet yesterday morning and got good news, her progesterone levels suggested she was ovulating. So I did what my breeder buddy and vet suggested and let them have the backyard to themselves since yesterday afternoon. Prior to this I was bringing her for "Visits" but this time I left her. She was still spotting red too.

At any rate they tied for the first time today! Maybe this is his norm as a stud, which now I'll expect.

I have been breeding for years just never saw a dog SOOOO disinterested since our previous Studs were all VERY interested even during Proestrus. I guess I now know that Dogs can be like Men in that some are.... Very Interested and some are Very disinterested types. 

Just to be clear we breed Labradors with retrieving ability as well as conforming to breed standard as closely as possible.

I came to find additional opinions and to see if this had happened to any other breeders aside from my friends.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

and there you go. dont jump to conclusions; they health test and breed to a goal and a standard and use proven dogs, already made it clear that they put thought inot the pairing and clearly have their own mentors and were just looking to share experience. i agree that ive always seen dogs to be interested in bitches even before the bitch is ready.

eedit: as my dog just reminded me, checking for flagging isn't fool proof anyway. unless my 6 year old spayed dog is somehow ovulating and ready to breed all the time.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

merlin3_1 said:


> I came here for help with something no one here has ever seen. And some have given help and I thank them. I also must thank *Spotted Nikes *for a great laugh!
> 
> I did go to other "breeder buddies" about this and one even came over. I guess they wanted to see it with their own eyes. I had one tell me to buy him a rainbow collar LOL. But none of them have seen that behavior before. Aside from them I also asked both of our vets and had one standing by to aid in AI should it prove necessary. One told me to house them together as she may be shy. At any rate technically Proestrus can last as little as 1 day or as long as 17 days. but all my previous males still would TRY to "Court" during this phase/stage. But he wasn't.
> 
> ...


Experienced the time period where many female GSD's were (not) able to breed naturally, most of the AI were not successful , and when they did take on a bitch that had so much difficulty they were the bitches that needed C sections as they did not respond that they were in labor and needed some type of monitor to alert that they were in labor.. Even in C section only one or two pups who were also weak in the reproduction area ... You have think is this what you want in your breeding program to be pass down generation to generation... All those bitches who got one or two pups in their life time no longer exist they died out, their off springs never produced more generations as they could not be bred to conceive.. To me it's a red flag that something is not right.. if dogs can't breed naturally.. It's not worth forcing it and building your breeding program on it.. plenty of bitches out there why force the one.


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## merlin3_1 (Mar 25, 2014)

PatriciafromCO said:


> plenty of bitches out there why force the one.


That is a good point but she has had two litters naturally already. I just purchased her as a proven mother. That's why I bought her. The previous owner was only selling this bitch because they were downsizing due to they were getting too old to care for so many. she has not needed AI before and still won't as they are now breeding. they tied today.


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## aamir_uetn (Jul 31, 2013)

spotted nikes said:


> OMG! I think my ex husband turned into a dog!!!!!


hahahahahahahaha.......


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## Justdogs (Dec 23, 2012)

<<I'm a firm believer in mentoring strictly through other, responsible, knowledgeable, experienced breeders who by all rights should be *personal friends* at our disposal when the need for information and education arises. Which totally negates the need to ask strangers on a forum any silly questions where the answers are really ... fundamental, imo. >>

I'm with Petpeeve on this one...and while I unfortunately realize these days it is funny to make light of these sorts of things...the whole "rainbow" thing is not funny to me. I also don't know of people who simply "purchase" a five year old dog who has had litters in the past....the whole thing stinks to me. I'm sort of thinking there will be even more lab-type dogs in rescue in the future....

I'll bet Merlin can NEVER produce names in order for OFA to actually be looked up...and I daresay even any sort of performance accolades. He said he's been breeding for YEARS...and yet he comes to strangers? Whatever...I feel sorry for yet more and more labs out there....


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