# Having a very hard time with potty training - 13 week English Bulldog



## Ian Shaughnessy (Feb 25, 2010)

I know that puppy owners are supposed to have patience, but I am finding myself quickly losing it with a puppy that is not learning potty training.

I have had him for about five weeks now. Day one, as soon as I brought him home, I started with crate training. I live in a bigger sized, 5 story apartment building on the 5th floor. It's a little bit of a distance to get outside to the dog friendly grassy area.

I immediately tried leash training, but found that as soon as I set him down in the hallway, he would pee, so I began to carry him outside. I'd set him down on the grass, let him do his business and then walk him back home. This seemed to work fine, but I did get tired of carrying him over time.

I work from home so he is usually never crated for more than 3-4 hours except for overnight lately he has been doing great...sometimes.

But back tracking a bit, when I got him he had a smaller sized crate that fit him perfectly. He'd pee in there every once and while but was generally learning to wait to get outside. After a few weeks he really started to outgrow it and started peeing in his crate a whole lot more so I got him a bigger one -- but not too big.

Now with the new crate, there have actually been times where he has walked into his crate to pee. He generally pees in the crate every time he's in there. He's also pooped in it a few times -- the most recent time immediately after finishing his food.

I've also tried leash training him the last week or so. I'll put the leash on him and walk him out into the hall. Immediately he will squat to pee. I'll tell him, "No" and pull the leash. He'll try this again, I repeat the same thing. By the time we're outside, he won't even try to go -- it's like he's scared and thinks going to the bathroom is wrong. Instead, he'll wait to get back home and off the leash and he'll go in the house instead.

For example this morning: I woke up at 7:30 AM. Let him out of the crate and take him outside at 7:45 (there is pee in the crate). He pees outside. Come back, let him play for about an hour and then put him in the crate so I can shower and get ready for my day. After showering I take him back out. In the hall, he squats to poop so I tell him "No" and pull him along. He does it again while waiting for the elevator so I pick him up. When we get outside I set him down and now he won't go at all. We sit out there for 20 minutes and he won't do anything...I walk him around a bit, etc...nothing. 

Get back up to my apartment, I take the leash off, turn around to put it away and by the time I have turned back around he's run into the other room and pooped all over the place. I put him in his crate so I can clean it up. After it's clean, I give him his food while I eat mine. It usually takes him twenty minutes to digest and then we'll go out. As soon as he's done with the food, he poops in his crate and lays down in it.

I feel like after five weeks he isn't learning to go outside...he will just go wherever, whenever he needs to. What can I do to help him learn better? I know my puppy can tell I'm frustrated and I don't want him to lose any bond with me because of that.


----------



## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I have a couple of questions:
Did you get this pup from a pet store or breeder where he was crated too much and became accustomed to going in the crate?
Do you clean the crate with a proper enzymatic cleaner and do you have bedding in there with him?
How much does he weigh now? I would still be carrying him if at all possible...to prevent the accidents in the hall (or you can try a belly band to cover him til you get him outside).
How frequently do you take him out? What's your schedule like for feeding/walking etc?
Do you reward him handsomely when he goes outside?

Sorry about all the questions but there are so many little management mistakes that people make that are little but make a huge difference...


----------



## Ian Shaughnessy (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks for the response!

I got him from a breeder who was paper training the litter. She did not want me taking the puppy outside because he wasn't done with his vaccinations, but I was totally against training him to go inside the apartment so I started taking him outside as soon as I got him home.

I keep a towel in the crate. When he soils it, I remove it and put it in the wash, clean the crate with a pet stain remover, and replace the towel with a clean one.

He weighs about twenty pounds.

I take him out roughly every 2 hours if I can. If I'm not home, I make sure to be gone no longer than 4 hours. I feed him twice a day...in the morning and at night, about a half cup each feeding. I really try to regulate his water. He's quite the water fiend, but I only give him water with his food and a little bit more a couple of times during the day. All water is cut no later than 6pm.

I do not give him treats when he goes outside. Should I start that?


----------



## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Ian Shaughnessy said:


> I got him from a breeder who was paper training the litter. She did not want me taking the puppy outside because he wasn't done with his vaccinations, but I was totally against training him to go inside the apartment so I started taking him outside as soon as I got him home.


Some breeders and veterinarians are OVERLY cautious, not that you shouldn't be careful...but I agree, outside is better. But since he had started INSIDE it can be hard to transition outside. Try your best to keep him from areas where unvaccinated dogs may have defecated but definitely take him out and introduce him to as many people,places and things as possible!



> I keep a towel in the crate. When he soils it, I remove it and put it in the wash, clean the crate with a pet stain remover, and replace the towel with a clean one.


I would lose the towel for now..soft stuff is COMFORTABLE to pee in. You can always add bedding again once he's got the hang of holding it in the crate.



> He weighs about twenty pounds


. Okay..that is a bit heavy (but not impossible) to carry..so maybe a belly band? I'm sure the neighbours don't want his urine in the hallway..lol.



> I take him out roughly every 2 hours if I can. If I'm not home, I make sure to be gone no longer than 4 hours. I feed him twice a day...in the morning and at night, about a half cup each feeding. I really try to regulate his water. He's quite the water fiend, but I only give him water with his food and a little bit more a couple of times during the day. All water is cut no later than 6pm.


I'm assuming he eats it all at once rather than free feeding? Start keeping a chart as to when he eats and drinks, when he has accidents and of what sort, and what time these things happen. Two hours is likely too long for this boy for pee breaks. If he can't make it out of the hall, his bladder just can't cut it...when in doubt take him out. The chart will help you get a general feel of his body's schedule and make it easier to anticipate his needs.



> I do not give him treats when he goes outside. Should I start that?


Oh! Absolutely! and they should be AWESOME treats, not just a milkbone. Relieving himself is self rewarding (it feels good when you gotta go!) so you have to make the holding and going outside worth WAY more than it would be for him when he pees in the house/kennel/hallway. A treat, some praise and a CUE when he squats (go potty, do your business, whatever...) will help you to move ahead in this issue. Housetraining is almost always held back by human mismanagement and forgetting that he is an infant who has little physical or mental control over his bodily functions.


----------



## Ian Shaughnessy (Feb 25, 2010)

Cracker said:


> Housetraining is almost always held back by human mismanagement and forgetting that he is an infant who has little physical or mental control over his bodily functions.


I never thought of this. At what age would the puppy not be an infant and be able to have more control?

I will lose the towel. Should I leave the crate empty or put some paper down? My worry is that if he does pee in there, it will make a mess and get all over him.

I'll also start taking him out more. If I take him out and he's not using the bathroom, what's a general rule of thumb of thinking, "Okay, he doesn't have to go, let's take him back in?" There have been times I've taken him out and he just hasn't had to go. And yes, when I give him food, he eats it all in one fell swoop.


----------



## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Ian Shaughnessy said:


> I never thought of this. At what age would the puppy not be an infant and be able to have more control?


Usually but not always by about 4 1/2 to 5 months they have pretty good control of the physical stuff so after that it's pretty much "learning to do it". The general rule is after 3 months the puppy SHOULD be able to hold it for about 3-4 hours in a crate but this is a not a hard and fast rule, depends a lot on the breed and physicality of the dog (just like with humans!).



> I will lose the towel. Should I leave the crate empty or put some paper down? My worry is that if he does pee in there, it will make a mess and get all over him.


Yeah, this happens. But if he does it on the towel he's still going to have urine on him..just not as much. A good wipe with a baby wipe or rinse off in the tub is always handy and a great way to work on "handling" exercises!



> I'll also start taking him out more. If I take him out and he's not using the bathroom, what's a general rule of thumb of thinking, "Okay, he doesn't have to go, let's take him back in?" There have been times I've taken him out and he just hasn't had to go.


Usually in a house rather than apt I would say wait a couple of minutes (maybe up to five) and then take him back in and crate him and then try again in ten or fifteen minutes. Being you are on the fifth floor you may want to give him more of a chance, just hanging out until he goes and then letting him have a bit of a "walkie" after his treat. The reason I suggest the little walk or play session is to stimulate his body (maybe to go AGAIN) and to also show him that pee does not always mean he has to go inside again. It becomes an occasional reward for good behaviour.


----------



## Stockers (Mar 2, 2010)

Ian Shaughnessy said:


> I've also tried leash training him the last week or so. I'll put the leash on him and walk him out into the hall. Immediately he will squat to pee. I'll tell him, "No" and pull the leash. He'll try this again, I repeat the same thing. By the time we're outside, he won't even try to go -- it's like he's scared and thinks going to the bathroom is wrong. Instead, he'll wait to get back home and off the leash and he'll go in the house instead.
> 
> ................After showering I take him back out. In the hall, he squats to poop so I tell him "No" and pull him along. He does it again while waiting for the elevator so I pick him up. When we get outside I set him down and now he won't go at all. We sit out there for 20 minutes and he won't do anything...I walk him around a bit, etc...nothing. .


Ok, first up *I'm not an expert*, and I have a pup too. I do understand logic though and wanted to pick up on the 2 points above. 

I fell into the trap of saying "no" when my pup was going where she shouldn't. One day I saw the light! She was outside the house, on the step, and she started to poop. I gave a firm "no" and she stopped.....brilliant!!!! What she then did though, once she had got over being told off, was to poop inside the house. I said "Doh!" in my head...why did I tell her off for being good and going outside the house?!??! Logic tells me that she was outside (fair enough, not on the grass...but at least out of the house!) and I chastised her...so she thinks 'oh....I'm not meant to go there (outside)" so she goes inside. Therefore, I will never ever tell my pup "no" if she goes where she shouldn't (and from what I read on the web, that is the right approach)...I find it better to make a noise or visual distraction....I even call my pup's name or, shuffle something on the table or shake one of her rattle toys. That gets her attention just long enough for her to stop the action of peeing or pooping, then for me to pick her up and take her outside. Then, whatever happens she has not been told off for simply relieving herself. Telling off in my opinion will not solve the problem, the dog is more ikely to go in secret where she can 'get away with it'

What do you think? I'd be interested to know how you get along and equally interested to know if I am totally wrong too...Im learning also!


----------

