# Dog sitting on feet...



## Chicalen1 (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi the trainer I had for class on Friday with Sofi said a dog sitting on you feet is a sign of disrespect. Has anyone else heard this? She also said that when a dog does something wrong you should put them in time out on a short leash attached to the wall or floor and ignore them for 1 or 2 min what are your opinions on this?

Amanda


----------



## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

It can be, in some ways- some dogs are *not* respectful of personal space. Others do it in certain situations because they are afraid, or have learned the behavior gets them rewards, or because they just don't have any body-awareness or concept of just how big they are (this last is most common in large breed puppies and teenagers). 

I really like leash tethering for timeouts, BUT, it doesn't work for every dog- for one thing, you've got to have a dog that respects a tether (some will injure themselves trying to get away from it) and a safe place to tether them. And for most people, well, there are easier ways to do time-outs- behind a baby gate, in an exercise pen, crated (under some circumtances- Indy's timeouts for picking on Mal are downstays in his crate with the door open) or just ignoring the dog entirely.


----------



## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

A dog putting its paw or sitting on the feet is commonly interpreted as a sign of attempting to dominate. I don't subscribe to that theory. The entire body language needs to be looked at. A dog that is licking its lips, legs shaking with big eyes is obviously stressed and when it puts its paw on the owner I don't read that as an attempt to dominate...I read it as an attempt to seek some reassurance.
Time-outs are appropriate for very specific situations and should never be used for everything the dog does wrong. Social isolation is a very powerful behavior modification method and needs to be used with care.
In social isolation you want to make a specific change and after isolation you want to see a specific (new) behavior. Example: Dog is jumping on you. You walk out of the room leaving the dog entirely alone. When you return after a minute or two you want a new behavior such as a sit instead of the jumping.


----------



## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

I'd also say it depends on the breed. Pugs for instance, are not happy unless they are physically touching you. It's just part of the breed's nature, and if you happen to be standing, they will either be leaning against your leg, or sitting on your feet! It's not a dominance thing with them, just their need to be close to their person. Kuma is always leaning against our legs, sitting on our feet, sticking his head through our legs, lol, and he has absolutely no issues with dominance.


----------



## cascabel (Sep 25, 2007)

I pretty much have to say that TooneyDogs summed up my thoughts on the sitting eloquently, so I won't add anything to that specifically. 

However, IMO I think this trainer sounds kind of cracked between this and the disrespect she showed you that was mentioned in your other post. There's nothing wrong with ditching a trainer if they aren't working out for you. I had to go through a few different trainers till I found one that worked well for me and the pup. 

For example, I asked a trainer for advice because I was having trouble teaching my pup to fetch a specific item on command. She wasn't 'getting it' with the normal methods and I was hoping for another approach. The trainer just told me that "Duh, she's a sheltie. They aren't designed to fetch." Okay, but that doesn't mean that I can't teach her. I mean shelties are champions when it comes to competitive obedience, which requires a fetch command!  

Sorry, I digress, but I just wanted to tell you it's okay to keep looking for 'right' trainer if this one isn't working out for you. It's not worth the stress on you (which will transfer to your dog) and you have no obligation to make it work with a trainer you aren't satisfied with. I learned this one the hard way.


----------



## battlemonkey (Oct 14, 2007)

I have to agree with the idea that it is a sign of dominance from your dog. When dogs are dominant over others, some will generally put their heads on top of another ones back or whatnot, since your dog can't put his head over yours (obviously), then they have to put some part of their body over some part of yours. I've met alot of people who allow their dogs to do this, but not me.


----------



## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Uallis often sits (and steps) on my feet. He also leans against me. I don't think with him it has anything to do with dominance. He doesn't have a dominant bone in his body. When he sits on my feet, it's just where his butt lands when he sitting down to be petted or loved on.  He sometimes will "slap" at me with a paw or something when he wants to go out and wants something in general. I ignore him when he does this because I don't want to encourage it because I'm afraid he could injure someone accidentally doing this. I will instead give him what he wants when he's sitting calmly. It's working well. 

As for tethering for a timeout; I've never done it personally. Uallis, I think, would be one of the dogs that would not understand and would end up injuring himself. He's never been tied out or tethered to anything but a leash before.


----------



## ghosthunterbecki (Nov 1, 2007)

I answered the "time out" question in your other thread (I appear to disagree with everybody else on the subject!) but I wanted to also address the "feet sitting" issue.

Dozer has had this same problem. It's one of the things that were really getting to my DH and me, because I'm eight months pregnant, and I *need* to be able to move my feet about, put them up, and it's hard for me to stand up with a dog sitting directly on my feet.

With Dozer I do feel that it was a sign of dominance/disrespect for our leadership, but there is a very specific reason *why*. Dozer was throwing himself against our shins whenever he laid down or sat against our feet. He wasn't simply sitting on them due to a lack of awareness of his own body, or a need to be close. He was using his body weight to "bully." 

We corrected this by telling him, "No. Dozer, Go." He knows what this means now, and on the occasion that he slips up and forgets that we don't like him on our feet, he moves. He no longer throws himself against our shins.

Dogs *do* want to be close to their pack, however. I may be wrong about this, but I believe that in the wild, dogs sleep communally for warmth and comfort. Your dog may be seeking that same warmth and comfort of the pack with you. If this is the case, encouraging her to lay down *next* to you achieves the same result for the dog, without the inconvenience to the owner.

Just my feelings, but this worked out well for us!


----------



## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

My Lab, Eddie, doesn't really sit on my feet. He'll sit in front of me or beside me when he wants attention or whatever. However, I think that I know what ghosthunterbecki is talking about in a way. Eddie used to use his body in a bully manner. He would purposely run straight into people or lean against me in a pushy way. Almost like he was trying to push me away and take the space. With him, I really think it was a dominance issue. I'd just stand up and crowd him back. Eventually, he backed off. I don't know if that was the right way to go about it though. He doesn't do it very much anymore though.


----------



## ghosthunterbecki (Nov 1, 2007)

Mdawn said:


> My Lab, Eddie, doesn't really sit on my feet. He'll sit in front of me or beside me when he wants attention or whatever. However, I think that I know what ghosthunterbecki is talking about in a way. Eddie used to use his body in a bully manner. He would purposely run straight into people or lean against me in a pushy way. Almost like he was trying to push me away and take the space. With him, I really think it was a dominance issue. I'd just stand up and crowd him back. Eventually, he backed off. I don't know if that was the right way to go about it though. He doesn't do it very much anymore though.


I really like having a command to get him to back off, because sometimes I think that he does it without realizing what he's doing. Though in Dozer's case, he's still very much a puppy and learning his boundaries and what the rules are. And of course, sometimes he tests us to make sure that he knows what he thinks he knows! 

Dominance is not, in my experience, something that is easy to deal with, but it is *so* very much worth the work in my opinion. Dozer's always been a great dog, but he and we are much happier because we worked with him on these commands.

Obedience training (including things like these additional commands) also really helps to boost a dog's confidence, in my opinion making them much better pets in the long run!


----------



## Mudra (Nov 1, 2007)

My dogs are usually laying down on my feet when I'm working on the computer. Is that disrespectful when they try to be close to you? =(


----------



## ghosthunterbecki (Nov 1, 2007)

Mudra said:


> My dogs are usually laying down on my feet when I'm working on the computer. Is that disrespectful when they try to be close to you? =(


Personally, I don't think so. But I also didn't have the impression that we were talking about a desire from the animal to be *close* to us, as their pack. 

I believe that one needs to look at the animal as an individual in this case rather than generalize that laying down on the feet or near the feet is disrespectful.


----------



## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

It's not so much about being close to you as it is to impedin your personal space and then ignoring it when you go to try and move....


----------



## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

LOL I hear you Dogstar. I have a male that has some real issues with personal space. He is incredibly submissive to most folks but he knows "dog people" and people with less experience. He gets rather obnoxious with the latter. He will push around on me during play but he is not the pushy guy all the time.


----------



## ghosthunterbecki (Nov 1, 2007)

Dogstar said:


> It's not so much about being close to you as it is to impedin your personal space and then ignoring it when you go to try and move....


Yes! That's what Dozer did -- he wouldn't allow me to get up or move my feet. That's where the real problem lay, for us. Now that we have that worked out, we are all a *lot* happier for it. I don't mind if he sits down at or on my feet because he *moves* now when I need to get up or stretch!


----------



## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

I have Kramer that loves to sit and lean on me and I let him, I have had other dogs that would throw their shoulder right into you, lean on you and attempt to sit on you. That was not allowed because it to me was dominating but with Kramer when I say go he moves to his own spot. It to me depends on the dog and if you train your dog to place when you give the command, its ok to visit up close.


----------



## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Dominance theroy IMO offers zero descriptive, explanatory, or predictive value in the human-dog relationship. Any trainer that suggests _oh, it's a dominance thing, _has minimal or no understanding of learning theory. 

Chris Bach puts it very eloquently in her book "The Third Way" when she explains how many dogs learn to work around ineffective owners (no assumptions made of you), in order to satisfy their appetitive requirements. She explains how these dogs are often perceived to be "dominant" when in fact they simply learned through operant conditioning to manipulate their environment appropriately in order to gain satisfaction. 

We should expect animals to maximize reinforcers and minimize punishments. Learning theory accounts for this behavior clearly and concisely, offering extremely high descriptive, explanatory, and predictive value, where dominance theory does not. 

Beyond that, learning theory offers a clear set of principles for treating the problem, by positively reinforcing behaviors one wants, and not reinforcing behaviors we don't want, while suffering little or no fallout - which is common when dominance theory is evoked.

So the next time your trainer makes a statement that it's a dominance thing...ask that person to explain it using learning theory. If they stutter or avoid the question, find a new trainer.


----------



## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I don't think dominance is the right word- and sorry, I should have addressed that. Mal is, with other dogs, and people in general, a very soft, giving type of dog. He *loves* to lean and can be a little passive-aggressive about it.  "Look how cute and submissive I am. You should pet me and give me lovins. *blink blink*" Indy- who is a pushy little SOB- would never DREAM of sitting on anyone's feet and moves promptly out of personal space ("gives to pressure" in horse terms ) because I've made sure and work on it- otherwise he takes up the entire bed!


----------



## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Sitting on feet is not necessarily a sign of disrespect. My dog lies on my feet sometimes when she's sleeping, or leans on them, but doesn't actually realize she's doing it, and is certainly not a dominant dog. If she really is annoying me by doing it, I have a command for that. A nice firm "git!" makes her go away.


----------



## Chicalen1 (Oct 3, 2007)

I really don't think this is a dominance issue with Sofi she has never sit on my feet she does lean on me when I pet her but I think she does it because she is enjoying being petting.

Amanda


----------



## ghosthunterbecki (Nov 1, 2007)

CP, is it possible that the problem is at least partially semantic? I wonder if there are those of us who simply don't know a better term for what we are experiencing, or who have been left behind in the "facts" because of popular media including television and even books on training which suggest that "dominant" dogs are also "aggressive" dogs and things in terms of that?

Part of the reason I bring this up is that I've abandoned the term "submissive" in terms of dogs almost entirely, noticing instead that what I had often thought of as "submissive" in a dog was actually nervous behavior, often brought about by a lack of confidence (in the dog and/or in the owner).

By the same token, one thing that I'm noticing in Dozer is that when he exhibits "dominant" traits, it seems to be rooted in lack of confidence. By no means am I trying to say that all dogs are the same, because they certainly aren't! But in our case, the same *problems* that cause "submissive" behaviors appear to also be causing "dominant" behaviors, when in fact, he is neither -- he simply has a place in the pack, and that is that. 

IMO, we give our dogs a great gift when we give them their confidence back. Dozer's developed a lot more recently, and we're noticing *astonishing* changes every single day!


----------



## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

I would pay Cherokee to sit on my feet. They're always cold! Can I borrow one of yours?


----------



## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

ghosthunterbecki said:


> CP, is it possible that the problem is at least partially semantic? I wonder if there are those of us who simply don't know a better term for what we are experiencing, or who have been left behind in the "facts" because of popular media including television and even books on training which suggest that "dominant" dogs are also "aggressive" dogs and things in terms of that?


IMO, no, it's not semantics in the human-dog relationship. There is no empirical evidence that supports any theory that dogs view us as other dogs. However, saying "dog sits on feet" perfectly describes what is being observed, and it should be left at that. Saying the dog is "dominant" suggests that it is a trait (which it's not), that "dominant" dogs have certain behaviors over others (which is also incorrect), and that "dominant" dogs have a different training protocol over "submissive" dogs (which is also not true). 

I do agree with you though that our current culture feeds this mind virus. I'm not sure why people won't let go dominance theory, but I don't think I would be far off if I said, it's done simply for convenience, even at the fault of being completely erroneous. IMO, in order to avoid the adversarial relationship that is often bred by dominance theory, you have to state what you see without making assumptions, and explain it using learning theory.


----------



## Frostypaws (Nov 1, 2007)

I don't know too much about foot sitting, but I can say that my Shiba Inu would always walk over to me and "paw" me if she wanted something. If I had a plate of food, she would walk over, sit down, pick up her foot and lightly scratch me (food please?). If I was sleeping in, she would jump on the bed and "paw" me again (walk please/attention?). I am not sure if this is a sign of dominance (although she does have dominance issues ) but it certainly means that she wants things on her terms. I thought it was cute at first, but now I ignore her pawing and do things on my own terms. I am hoping that this reiterates that I make the decisions in this pack .

I am not sure if this helps, but I hope it does!!


----------



## Ms Loves dogs (Oct 18, 2012)

I dog sit on in my home, and was curious to see what others thought about dogs who sit on feet. I have had a few that do it, and I would say that the ones who do it are insecure, and just want to be close. I kind of take it as an acceptance of me. The most interesting one was a Glen of Imal Terrier. Appearantly, these dogs ancestors used to be used as foot warmers. The dog would lay on my feet for hours while I worked on the computer.


----------



## lisaj1354 (Feb 23, 2008)

I don't subscrbe to a dominance theory when it comes to a dog sitting on your feet. Does the trainer believe that a dog who wants to sit on your lap also trying to dominate you?

Pepper will sit on my feet, sit on my lap, or sit on my chest. I believe it makes him feel safe and secure to curl up on me or next to me. 

I also believe that too many people believe what trainers say without figuring in common sense and their own research.


----------



## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I guess this must be one of those timeless topics.

My 115-pound lab would sit on the feet of people he liked - which was nearly everyone. I believe he did that to keep them from toppling over when he leaned on them. He was a big leaner. 

If someone he cared about happened to be on the ground - whether it was intentional or not - he would sit on them. We were hiking with a friend and her dogs when she took a tumble and went sprawling. Cubby trotted over to her and I thought, "Oh, isn't that nice? He's checking to make sure she's okay."

I thought that right up until he sat on her.


----------



## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

The OP said 'disrespect' not 'dominance' - much more descriptive.  

I agree... Labs don't care, they want to be close, they want to eat, they want to eat.... they want some loving... any way they can. 
Mastiffs are lap dogs... 'nuff said.
Not sure if some Rotts may be pushy...

But I think that a dog that steps or sits on you, just needs training, b/c they don't know... And, dogs don't move, b/c they don't need to, not b/c they're disrespectful.... just need a little education and training...


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Oh my, another one of those "I thought I've heard it all" Hmmmm if it was a horse I might get a tad worried. Would not be a dominance worry, just weight.

Yes indeed, some trainers if a tad incompetent like to baffle with their line of bulls**t.


----------



## Ms Loves dogs (Oct 18, 2012)

RonE That is an awesome story! LOL!


----------



## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

hanksimon said:


> But I think that a dog that steps or sits on you, just needs training, b/c they don't know... And, dogs don't move, b/c they don't need to, not b/c they're disrespectful.... just need a little education and training...


I figure I'm just more comfortable than the ground. Or that he wants be "back up against something" - one of those survival/instinct things that seems silly, like him "digging" on the carpet or the bed before lying on it. 

Sometimes it's on my foot, sometimes it's on the side. Like he wants to know when I move so he knows when to move, but he can then watch something else - like the woman carrying her groceries in. Never thought of it as a dominance thing - what is he dominating? My foot? Greedy punk, you already have four paws, why do you need a foot too?


----------



## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

Nope. I disagree. My friend had an elderly lab and she was the sweetest most docile dog you've ever met. She often sat on my feet because she wanted to be so close to me and have me pet her.

For time outs, my trainer also recommended that, but I think the general rule of thumb is provide attention when they're doing something good, and ignore unwanted behaviour. Time outs aren't necessary for every time, maybe reserve it for one particularly bad thing your dog has a habit of doing; for example, nipping for bite inhibition.


----------



## workerant (Feb 28, 2011)

The only time Kenda ever sits on my feet is when she's not feeling well; I believe she is seeking comfort and reassurance from me. What kind of person would I be if I refused her?


----------



## Canaqua (Sep 27, 2011)

wvasko said:


> Oh my, another one of those "I thought I've heard it all" Hmmmm if it was a horse I might get a tad worried. Would not be a dominance worry, just weight.
> 
> Yes indeed, some trainers if a tad incompetent like to baffle with their line of bulls**t.


Seriously. I've had dogs my whole life and I'm on the "old" side, I've never heard anything about sitting on feet being a sign of disrespect. I don't actually spend a lot of time wondering about "signs" of dominance or disrespect or whatever...if the dogs are pleasant to be around and do what I ask them to without a big stink, we're good...just doesn't require that much analysis. 

Yes, with the horses, staying out of my personal space (and off my feet!) is of paramount importance, it's dangerous. Teaching them to respect my personal space and body is a safety issue. Thousand pound animal trying to climb on me...NOT OK. 60lb animal trying to be close, no problem.


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> Seriously. I've had dogs my whole life and I'm on the "old" side, I've never heard anything about sitting on feet being a sign of disrespect. I don't actually spend a lot of time wondering about "signs" of dominance or disrespect or whatever...if the dogs are pleasant to be around and do what I ask them to without a big stink, we're good...just doesn't require that much analysis.


Amen

I am seriously waiting for the "my trainer said when my pup/dog farted it was a sign of dominance" obviously the dog must be trained to put an end to that bad farting. I'm Just Sayin'..


----------



## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

wvasko said:


> Amen
> 
> I am seriously waiting for the "my trainer said when my pup/dog farted it was a sign of dominance" obviously the dog must be trained to put an end to that bad farting. I'm Just Sayin'..


Management > Training


----------



## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Management > Training


a) I'd like to think that the dog in that picture sabotaged whoever put that on him in their sleep. Oh the indignity

b) I actually have heard the "dog sitting on your feet is dominant" thing before - but I think it's dumb. I think it's more like "dog sitting on your feet wants ear scritches."


----------



## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Canaqua said:


> I don't actually spend a lot of time wondering about "signs" of dominance or disrespect or whatever...if the dogs are pleasant to be around and do what I ask them to without a big stink, we're good...


This is sig worthy...

*sigh* I need to rotate these or something...



Canaqua said:


> Yes, with the horses, staying out of my personal space (and off my feet!) is of paramount importance, it's dangerous. Teaching them to respect my personal space and body is a safety issue. Thousand pound animal trying to climb on me...NOT OK.


"In Soviet Russia, horses ride you!"


----------



## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

wvasko said:


> Amen
> 
> I am seriously waiting for the "my trainer said when my pup/dog farted it was a sign of dominance" obviously the dog must be trained to put an end to that bad farting. I'm Just Sayin'..


Of course it is. The dog is trying to control space by using a foul smell to drive you out of the area. </sarcasm>


----------



## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

Dakota sits/lays on my feet everynight while I am sitting on the coach..I can assure you its not disrespect or being afraid and dogs don't know personal space(some humans don't)
I know with him it's a matter of he doesn't want me to move without him knowing it,he is a right there kind of dog in every sense of the word.Laying on the feet can mean different things for different dogs.( there is not a clear cut this is dominace or he is afraid answer)


----------



## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

KBLover said:


> Of course it is. The dog is trying to control space by using a foul smell to drive you out of the area. </sarcasm>


Well a dog like that belongs in a Bond movie as the pet of the villain, that is one very mean, dominant dog.

Ooooops, am I suppose to say dominant.


----------

