# Orijen quality



## vardan8431 (Feb 8, 2013)

Dear Friends,

I heard that Orijen is dangerous for dogs health. But this brand everywhere rated by 6 stars... what yopu mean about Orijen quality?

Thanks,
Vardan and Snoopy


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## vardan8431 (Feb 8, 2013)

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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Where did you hear that Orijen was bad for the dog's health? If anything I believe it's one of the best kibbles out on hte market. They cook the kibbles at a lower heat so it destroys less of the ingredients, and it probably has one of the most amount of meat in their kibble. I don't know where you heard that, but we've never really had to take off Orijen from the shelves at the store I work at so..


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## vardan8431 (Feb 8, 2013)

Hi Shae,

Thanks for quick reply!
I heard that Оrijen contain large amount of protein which is bad for dogs living in flats. And I affraid to give it to my Snoopy (9 month, jack russell).
And what you mean about these brands - GO NATURAL, innova, ACANA, TASTE OF THE WILD. Could you please give some comments?
www.nourrircommelanature.com/Nos-marques/pa2.html
Now he is eating DOG LOVERS GOLD, but he is unhappy, and to my understanding he has problems with digestion .

Thanks again,
Vardan and Snoopy


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

Orijen is a very high quality kibble, is produced in a small factory setting with the best ingredients possible (free range meats, etc). 

However, the protein content is quite high (around 40%) and that is not good for some dogs. 

I started feeding it to my pup, and she developed crystals in her urine from the high protein levels. I switched her to a high quality grain-free kibble with protein levels around 28% and she is doing much better. 

The high protein is fine for some dogs and puppies though. Each animal is different, and there is no real way to know how your dog will react without trying it. I wish I could still feed Orijen because it really is one of the best.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

I fed my pup Orijen puppy as it is one of the best foods out there. The Vet never heard of it so I couldn't have a good conversation with her about it but she wanted Zoey off of puppy food at 6 months old due to the higher protien levels in puppy food. The Vet had no clue how much more protein Orijen as a whole has but I switched my pup to a lower protein, all life stages dog food - Zoey went from 40% to 28% protein.

Other than the vet recommended her off high protein, the only problem was that Zoey had a lot of gas and her feces stunk really bad! My wife insisted to put Zoey on a different food due to this so we switched her off. The place I got the food from suggested that Zoey was like this because I was feeding her too much - she's about 30 lbs and I was feeding her about 2 cups a day - the person at the store said people with 80 lb dogs feed that much.

Zoey seem to like the food. Acana is made by the same people but has a little less protein. Zoey's on Pinnacle Grain Free Turkey and Potato.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Orijen is a premium kibble and unless your dog can't handle high protein it's a really healthy choice. I usually feed orijen but strayed recently to a vet suggested food...yeah no, I just bought a new bag of orijen, the vet food was BAD. 

I have nothing but good words for that brand and have heard only good things about them and the other brand (same factory) Arcana


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with large amounts of protein as long as your dog gets accustomed to it properly. At the store I work at we always suggest starting off on Acana if the dog has not had high protein food before. We also suggest feeding a quarter cup less than the suggested portion. Most dogs that experience gas, diarrhea, etc from the food is because they are being fed way too much (it's highly concentrated). Crystals appearing from higher protein is very rare. Usually crystals will only be a problem if the dog is not hydrated enough, or if the pee is too basic/too acidic. But I honestly haven't heard of crystals appearing in dogs that often so I wouldn't worry.

As for the other food brands, I have no experience with both. If you're going to feed kibble, I always stand by Orijen or Acana  I have heard of a lot of people having good luck with Taste of the Wild on this forum too.

Main thing with digestion issues is that usually it is due to grain intolerance, or to chicken intolerances. Try putting your dog on a grain free food, and if that doesn't help, cut back on portion, and if you still don't see improvements, try switching proteins.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

taquitos said:


> There is nothing wrong with large amounts of protein as long as your dog gets accustomed to it properly. At the store I work at we always suggest starting off on Acana if the dog has not had high protein food before. We also suggest feeding a quarter cup less than the suggested portion. Most dogs that experience gas, diarrhea, etc from the food is because they are being fed way too much (it's highly concentrated). Crystals appearing from higher protein is very rare. Usually crystals will only be a problem if the dog is not hydrated enough, or if the pee is too basic/too acidic. But I honestly haven't heard of crystals appearing in dogs that often so I wouldn't worry.
> 
> As for the other food brands, I have no experience with both. If you're going to feed kibble, I always stand by Orijen or Acana  I have heard of a lot of people having good luck with Taste of the Wild on this forum too.
> 
> Main thing with digestion issues is that usually it is due to grain intolerance, or to chicken intolerances. Try putting your dog on a grain free food, and if that doesn't help, cut back on portion, and if you still don't see improvements, try switching proteins.


Yes, I donot understand, Dogs fed raw meat are on pretty high protein levels I am guessing but I dont hear about them having problems d/t that....
Mine are all on puppy food (we have a large breed adolescent dog) we mix it with rice cottage cheese... and beef to dilute it...


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

taquitos said:


> There is nothing wrong with large amounts of protein as long as your dog gets accustomed to it properly. At the store I work at we always suggest starting off on Acana if the dog has not had high protein food before. We also suggest feeding a quarter cup less than the suggested portion. Most dogs that experience gas, diarrhea, etc from the food is because they are being fed way too much (it's highly concentrated). Crystals appearing from higher protein is very rare. Usually crystals will only be a problem if the dog is not hydrated enough, or if the pee is too basic/too acidic. But I honestly haven't heard of crystals appearing in dogs that often so I wouldn't worry.
> 
> As for the other food brands, I have no experience with both. If you're going to feed kibble, I always stand by Orijen or Acana  I have heard of a lot of people having good luck with Taste of the Wild on this forum too.
> 
> Main thing with digestion issues is that usually it is due to grain intolerance, or to chicken intolerances. Try putting your dog on a grain free food, and if that doesn't help, cut back on portion, and if you still don't see improvements, try switching proteins.


Although I'm not switching back to Orijen - what is way too much? I'm just curious.

If a 80 lb dog is only eating 2 cups a day at would mean my dog should only have 3/4 of a cup a day.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Candydb said:


> Yes, I donot understand, Dogs fed raw meat are on pretty high protein levels I am guessing but I dont hear about them having problems d/t that....
> Mine are all on puppy food (we have a large breed adolescent dog) we mix it with rice cottage cheese... and beef to dilute it...


Yeah, it doesn't really make any sense that dogs can't handle the protein, especially since they are carnivores... My dogs are all on raw or Orijen (foster dog is on Orijen, my own on raw), and they hardly eat any veggies and they do great lol.




Dog Person said:


> Although I'm not switching back to Orijen - what is way too much? I'm just curious.
> 
> If a 80 lb dog is only eating 2 cups a day at would mean my dog should only have 3/4 of a cup a day.


My ~45 lbs mid-low energy foster dog eats 1 to 1.5 cups a day, and maybe a bully stick or a duck foot. It doesn't seem like a lot, but you also have to remember it's a lot more concentrated than other kibbles since it has so little fillers lol


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

> Although I'm not switching back to Orijen - what is way too much? I'm just curious.


depends on the dog, Gem is 40lbs and eats 2 cups Orijen a day(plus raw), but she is INSANELY active, like... 10+ hours of hard core exercise every day.. active. my dads dog is about 35lbs, standard house dog, he eats only 3/4 C a day. both dogs are the same mix breed.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

when feeding I tend to go more by if the dog needs to gain, lose, or maintain weight rather than the food charts because each dog is different. Different activity levels, ages, metabolisms, ect. but almost always it's less than the chart on the bag.

I just notice when feeding Orijen that a dogs or a cats health improves (or at least in my family anyways) so I go with what works


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Protein is very good for dogs. Any dry food needs to be fed with lots of water. I suspect the dogs that do poorly on high protein dry diets aren't drinking enough water. Many dogs that develop crystals have urinary tract infections which changes the pH of the urine and allows crystals to precipitate out, nothing to do with protein in food. High protein kibble will have more ash, mineral content, than needed for nutrition purposes and that could be a problem as well.

My couch potato senior dog stays strong and happy fed lots of protein in a wet raw diet. I do watch how much ash he gets, I feed much less than he would get in kibbles.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

My Vet said that working dogs need the extra protein vs a pet, and I agree to that. From what I've read even though a dog utilizes protein better than humans any unused protein is converted to fat.

I think that the water consumption is probably the key to crystal formation. Raw has a lot more water than kibble and dogs don't automatically drink water after eating.

As far as how much to feed. Orijen is 450 Kcal per cup; based on food calculators Zoey was to be fed about 1100 Kcals a day - should be about 3 cups, I fed about 2. So in my mind I did cut back on the amount of food I should have been feeding her. Are food calculators that far off when talking about different foods? Isn't the calorie consumption/output is what determines how much to feed? If not, I don't know if dogs feel hunger the way humans do but if they do they may become "scavengers" due to the lack of quantity of food even though nutritionally they are being well nourished.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

IAMS did a short study on protein for dogs. http://www.iams.com/pet-health/dog-article/importance-of-animal-based-proteins-in-dog-foods Based on that I would be uneasy feeding less than 28% protein to a dog. Chronically ill geriatric Sassy's strength improved after I figured out how to feed ~28% protein to her on a limited phosphorus diet and Max gained 15% of his previous healthy weight in muscle on high protein raw. Muscle supports the skeleton and may help with poor joint health as well as making it more fun to play, run and go for nice long walks. Protein supports good organ condition as well. Couch potatoes need a lot more protein than the minimal AAFCO and NRC numbers and Max was getting 22% on kibble which is much more than NRC levels already. He gets about double the protein grams a day on raw that he got on kibble and needs it.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Kathyy said:


> IAMS did a short study on protein for dogs. http://www.iams.com/pet-health/dog-article/importance-of-animal-based-proteins-in-dog-foods Based on that I would be uneasy feeding less than 28% protein to a dog. Chronically ill geriatric Sassy's strength improved after I figured out how to feed ~28% protein to her on a limited phosphorus diet and Max gained 15% of his previous healthy weight in muscle on high protein raw. Muscle supports the skeleton and may help with poor joint health as well as making it more fun to play, run and go for nice long walks. Protein supports good organ condition as well. Couch potatoes need a lot more protein than the minimal AAFCO and NRC numbers and Max was getting 22% on kibble which is much more than NRC levels already. He gets about double the protein grams a day on raw that he got on kibble and needs it.


I read the study and then went to their dog food and they don't follow their own findings so I would question their study's validity, they also use an inferior protein source IMO, by-products, as protein. Quality protein is probably more important than the percentage of protein. Higher quality protein is utilized better by a dog then lower quality so 29% of inferior protein does not equal 29% of meat protein.

My last dog was on Nutro and I added chicken to her food. At her last Vet visit the Vet was impressed by her muscle tone. They have reformulated their food so what's on their website is not what she was getting nutrition wise from them and I have no clue what percentage of protein she was getting, maybe she was getting a higher percentage of protein.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Exactly, quality is as important as quantity. Chicken only has protein and fat grams so you are adding a nice amount of quality nutrients to the kibble. You can substitute about 25% kibble calories for fresh food calories without fear of upsetting the basic nutrient balance of the kibble.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Candydb said:


> Yes, I donot understand, Dogs fed raw meat are on pretty high protein levels I am guessing but I dont hear about them having problems d/t that....
> Mine are all on puppy food (we have a large breed adolescent dog) we mix it with rice cottage cheese... and beef to dilute it...


Getting protein from raw is way different than dry food. You have to compare on a dry matter basis. 

Orijen is not appropriate for most pet dogs, IMO.


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## xdunlapx (Jan 30, 2013)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Getting protein from raw is way different than dry food. You have to compare on a dry matter basis.
> 
> Orijen is not appropriate for most pet dogs, IMO.


I now feed Orijen. Orijen 6 Fish formula dry food is:

From dogfoodavdisor.com: "The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 42%, a fat level of 20% and estimated carbohydrates of about 30%."

It's not overly high in protein. So why do you think that it's not generally for 'pet' dogs?


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## Losech (Apr 5, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Getting protein from raw is way different than dry food.


EVO Red Meat gives about 44 grams of protein for one cup. One of my homemade raw meals equivalent to one cup of EVO supplies around 40-50 grams depending on what meat is used.
Doesn't look much different to me. Yes one is dry and the other full of moisture, but when it comes down to actual protein content, raw and high-protein kibbles are about the same.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Orijen has about the same amount of protein as raw food. Max would get about the same number of grams of protein in 150 grams of it as he does in his 10 ounces of raw food both containing about the same number of calories. Difference being, Orijen has more carbohydrate and less fat than Max's raw food.

Sample raw diet
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/1603846/2
Old Orijen formula, multiply amount x1.5 as this is 400 calories and he gets about 600 calories.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1897502/2


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

Kathyy said:


> Protein is very good for dogs. Any dry food needs to be fed with lots of water. I suspect the dogs that do poorly on high protein dry diets aren't drinking enough water. Many dogs that develop crystals have urinary tract infections which changes the pH of the urine and allows crystals to precipitate out, nothing to do with protein in food. High protein kibble will have more ash, mineral content, than needed for nutrition purposes and that could be a problem as well.
> 
> My couch potato senior dog stays strong and happy fed lots of protein in a wet raw diet. I do watch how much ash he gets, I feed much less than he would get in kibbles.


My dog drank tons, and I mean TONS of water. That's why I took her to the vet. I suspected a UTI because she was drinking bowls of water a day and was having tiny peeing accidents and would pee a small amount, walk a bit, pee some more, etc when we went outside. I disagree that she had crystal formation due to not drinking enough water with the kibble. 

With the reduced protein kibble that she is on now (Fromm grain free roughly 30% protein) her water intake has decreased and she has absolutely no issues anymore with going to the bathroom and her urine screen came back clean. 
Protein in kibble is much more concentrated than a raw diet, because the moisture has all been removed as some have mentioned. It's not the same.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Kayla_Nicole, do you know what kind of crystals Alannah had? I know that there is a type of crystal that forms when urine is too acidic. Maybe that's what your dog had?

I find that in general, though, crystals are not the biggest concern in dogs. I do think that some formulas may work better for each dog though


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## InfernoOrangeSS (Apr 1, 2012)

I couldn't imagine feeding our dogs anything but Orijen. Both our one yr old on Regional Red, and new puppy on the puppy formula love this food and are the healthiest they could be. They're both very active for house dogs, very alert, playful, and all around wonderful. Orijen has been the best food we have found with our one year old, so we decided the new puppy should have it too.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Now that I remember more I'd like to add

It really depends on what you do with your dog. Most of mine have always been worked some way or another and Origen give the extra boost to get them to their best performance but I would in no way shape or form recommend it to my mothers lap dog...I see fattening up and possibly health problem ahead because of the higher protein.

I started my puppy on it because they do make a good puppy food for active puppies, and I do plan on working her at around 1 1/2 -2 years old after her bones and joints are ready for it. I'm doing light training till then. 

So really feeding Origen can be good or bad depending on the individual and their daily activity.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

Flaming said:


> Now that I remember more I'd like to add
> 
> It really depends on what you do with your dog. Most of mine have always been worked some way or another and Origen give the extra boost to get them to their best performance but I would in no way shape or form recommend it to my mothers lap dog...I see fattening up and possibly health problem ahead because of the higher protein.
> 
> ...


My Vet recommended that Zoey be taken off of puppy food for exactly this reason, as I said earlier the Vet had no idea about Orijen she was talking about "standard" puppy foods ... It makes sense to me as I equate it to a human bodybuilder vs a non bodybuilder. But in the same token keeping a dog on a meat based protein vs plant makes sense to me as well.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Dog Person said:


> My Vet recommended that Zoey be taken off of puppy food for exactly this reason, as I said earlier the Vet had no idea about Orijen she was talking about "standard" puppy foods ... It makes sense to me as I equate it to a human bodybuilder vs a non bodybuilder. But in the same token keeping a dog on a meat based protein vs plant makes sense to me as well.


Most non premium puppy foods aren't much different than the adult foods anyways except for calorie content. My vet wanted me to switch to science diet....NO that food is and was horrid for my puppy, and is known to be not so good (although I only found that our recently myself). Most vets don't have the proper nutrition courses, I know from personal experience as I did a few years as a pre-vet and not one nutrition course was recommended or necessary. There are however courses for dog nutritionist's so maybe try to hit one of those people up?


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

vardan8431 said:


> Hi Shae,
> 
> Thanks for quick reply!
> I heard that Оrijen contain large amount of protein which is bad for dogs living in flats. And I affraid to give it to my Snoopy (9 month, jack russell).
> ...


I'm interested to know where you heard that large amount of protein was bad specifically for dogs living in flats (apartments).

GO Natural, Innova, Acana and TOTW are all very good kibbles, but for the most part they are one step down from Orijen. However, the quality of the kibble matters less than how your dog does on it. There are plenty of dogs that cannot handle the richness (high protein) of Orijen or any of the other brands you've listed, and actually thrive on cheap low-quality foods like Purina Dog Chow and Pedigree.


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