# Preventing the spread of mange



## Jason Carlton (Dec 24, 2008)

Hi all, and thanks for the wonderful forum. I'm the proud father of a 12-year old chihuahua, two 6-year old tabby cats that were rescued as kittens, and too many fish to name  

On Sunday, 12/21/08, as I came home from a dinner party (around 11pm), I found a young dog at the end of my driveway. She's some sort of a Hound mix (beagle or bassett), and had a red collar, but no tags. She had obviously been on her own for several days, if not weeks, because she was very skinny and looked like she had been in several fights.

I coaxed her into following me to my fenced-in back yard, where I could give her some blankets, food, and water. She was very hungry and thirsty, of course, and acted sore, but otherwise OK.

The next morning, I was able to inspect her a little closer, and discovered that she has a rather bad case of mange. Her face had several cuts from fighting, so it was easy to miss at night. I'm not sure if it's sarcoptic or red mange, but you can see a picture here:

http://www.gowilkes.com/DCP_0693.JPG

I had touched her with my hands the night before, but when I went inside I immediately went and washed my hands and forearms before touching any of my pets. I DID, however, touch the door knobs, faucet controls, etc.

I've continued giving her food and water, but the local vet isn't open because of Christmas so I can't take her anywhere until Monday. This leaves me being very concerned about spreading the mange to myself and to my pets.

I did spray some Hartz hydrocortisone spray with aloe on her (from Walgreens) to help ease the pain a little, and put plastic bags on my hands to keep from touching her. And of course, I threw the bags away outside, then came inside and washed my hands and forearms before touching any of the pets. I have, however, touched her food and water bowls bare handed, and in retrospect, I've been wearing flip-flops when I go to the back yard, and then bring them back in the house afterward.

Since it's now Christmas Eve, I have a ton of panicky questions.

1. How long does it take for symptoms of mange or scabies to show up?

2. Can the mites live on my shoes and the vinyl floor that the shoes are sitting on, and spread to my other animals?

3. I need to wrap presents for my nieces and nephews tonight. Is there a risk that I'll have mites in my hands, then spread them to the gifts?

4. I have serious problems with my local vet (he has a reputation for purposefully misdiagnosing problems, presumably for more money), and the next one is about 90 minutes away (I live in a rural area). Is there danger to using Revolution pet medication (ordered online) to try to clear up the mange myself?


Before anyone asks, I've tried my best to find the real parents, but I'm not having any luck. Unfortunately, I live in an area where most people are going to say "it's just a dog", so odds are that no one will claim it. I can't keep it, simply for a lack of resources, so once it's safe then I'll turn it over to a foster home or pet rescue.

Thanks for any information and/or advice,

Jason


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi Jason,

From the looks of it and my experience with both demodectic and sarcoptic manage, my guess would be that the pup has demodectic mange. Localized demodex is usually found in pups 3 to 6 months old and commonly affects the face and front legs. This poor baby has had some pesky parasites chewing him up for a good long time so it may take quite a while to get it under control and dogs under 18 months old usually recover just fine. The only way to find out what type of mange this pup has is a simple skin scraping. Ivermectin is usually the treatment of choice in conjuction with dips. 

People and all dogs have demodectic mites but adult dogs and the human immune system keeps them at bay. Most pups actually get the mites from their mom and because their immune system has not matured, some pups cannot fight them off and they multiply and multiply and multiply. 

Bless you for taking this little boy in and taking care of him. Your current hygiene should be continued regardless but I can tell you that demodectic mange is not contagious to other dogs or humans. Sarcoptic, also known as scabies, is extremely contagious to other dogs and people.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Jason, as soon as the vets are open I'd take her in for a skin scrape, it's pretty cheap (around $25-30 here) and it will give you some peace of mind. However, it does* look* like Demodex.


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## Moonshadow (Nov 9, 2008)

To me it looks like generalized demodex. If it's demodex you have no risk to you, your other pets or your family at all.

If this pup had sarcoptic mange, especially as severe of a case as she has in the photo she would be digging at herself constantly. Scratching, biting, and in constant discomfort. If she seems fairly comfortable it's more than likely demodex. You might see her itch with demodex but if it's sarcoptic you would most definately see her in distress with it. Like the worst case of poison ivy you could imagine and multiply it by 10.

A friend of mine had it....her one dog picked it up, gave it to the other two and she got it herself. These dogs didn't have nearly as severe of a case as that pup and they itched constantly....to the point we had to sedate the one because she was just making herself crazy and ripping herself apart. My friend also got it and she said it was the worse itch she ever had. I think if she's not going nuts itching like crazy you are probably safe to assume it's demodex.

She used revolution on them....they are collies so that's about the only fairly safe option to treat collies for this (collies are sensitive to some drugs) and she saw improvement in a few days but I believe she treated them for 2 months applying the revolution every 2 weeks.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Take immunity boosting measures....

fish oil, Vitamins, Transfer Factor(supplement made from colostrum) etc..

Benedryl will also help alleviate discomfort. 

Get rid of any fleas..they will simply aggravate the issue...

Basically do what you can to improve her general healthand you will be making a dent at least in the condition...


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## Jason Carlton (Dec 24, 2008)

I really haven't seen this one scratching very much, honestly. Last night I saw her scratching her neck once, and today she was scratching the same place, but nowhere near as bad as I would expect with mange.

I've never seen demodectic (red) mange before, and I thought it was rare, which was why I was hesitant to believe that this was the problem. I'm glad you all agree with me, though.

Today, she seems to be doing a lot better. I'm not sure if it's from the hydrocortisone / aloe spray, or just because regular food and water has helped her immune system, but she's walking around and doesn't seem to be in as much pain. She still won't leave the deck (I think it hurts to go down the steps), but at least she would follow me around when I brought food to her.

I'll be taking her to a vet in the next county on Monday to find out for sure. Thanks, all,

Jason


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Jason, if it's Demodex and the vet wants to treat with Ivermectin (Heartgaurd) see if he'll allow the liquid form instead, it's ALOT cheaper and just as effective. If you have anyother questions, let us know. There are plenty of people here with experience when it comes to treating Demodex.


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## Jason Carlton (Dec 24, 2008)

Luckily, I found a vet that was open today (a few counties over), and it turns out that it is definitely Demodex. The bad news, though, is that he (it turns out that yes, it's a "he") has just about every intestinal parasite that you could think of, which is what weakened his immune system to the degree that red mange could take hold.

He specifically mentioned hookworm, ringworm, and whipworm (which is a new one to me). I think that he said another one, too, but he didn't write them down and I can't remember. No heartworm, though (which is pretty rare for my area, anyway).

The vet is cautiously optimistic about recovery. He started us on a half dose of Promeris, and then I'm checking back in a week to see if we should continue with 1/2 doses or if we can move up to a full dose.

We went ahead and did all of the vaccines, too, so this is the complete list of everything:

DHLPP Vaccination
Recombitek C6 (I think is like Benadryl, in case there were any reactions)
Rabies First
Tri-wormer Small
1/2 Promeris Single

I'm also giving him 250mg of Cephalexin # 6520 twice a day (in a capsule).

The vet said that he would probably be lethargic for the next day or so, but so far that hasn't been true. He slept for the ride home, but almost as soon as I got him out he started jogging around the back yard... which he has NEVER done! He usually stays in the one spot on the deck. About an hour later, I gave him 1/2 a can of soft food (with cephalexin hidden inside), and he wolfed the whole thing down, so his appetite is strong, too.

Just curious, can I open the cephalexin capsules and sprinkle it in the food, or does he need to take the entire capsule? Sprinkling it in the food would just make it easier to make sure that he takes it.

I'm supposed to call the vet tomorrow morning to let him know how the dog is doing, but so far it looks like he's doing great. With any luck, once the worms are gone then his own immune system will strengthen enough to start fighting the red mange on its own.

Oh, and if anyone's interested, it turns out that he's about 5 months old, 13lbs, and is an Australian Shepherd / Beagle mix. I looked up some pictures on Google, and he's going to be SO handsome! 

Here's a picture that looks a lot like how I think he'll look when he's recovered:

http://www.cocothelovedog.com/images/photogallery/dogfriends/muggsy.jpg

If you all can think of anything else that I should know, I'm all ears! Or, well, "eyes" in this case.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Yay Jason! I'm so glad you got the pup to the vet. That poor guy is quite the host for parasites. Bless his heart. I think he will be quite the handsome guy when this is all behind him and his coat is back and his coat will grow back. Obviously he has captured your heart already. Are you still going to find him a permanent home when you get him back on track?

I put most of my dog's meds in their food; however, I usually have liquid antibiotics and I don't have any trouble giving it to them. Some drugs taste nasty but my dogs are such little pigs, they gulp their food down no matter what I put on it. Perhaps somebody that knows for sure about mixing the antibiotic with food will chime in shortly.

The Promeris may make the dog lethargic and if that doesn't, vaccines usually do. I don't know about others but I would be hard pressed to administer all those vaccinations to a dog with a compromised immune system. I have two dogs with cushing's which absolutely compromises the immune system and bordatella is the only vaccine they get now. Their internal medicine specialists provides me with letters for the county for licensing purposes. I have two other seniors that do not get vaccinated unless they need it. You have a senior too and if your vet is one of those that still insists on annual vaccines, you may want to do a simple blood test called a titer that can detect which vaccines are still effective. There is more than enough proof that dogs do not need annual vaccines and a lot of vets have already adopted the new three year vaccine guidelines. It is quite possible that the pup you rescued was already vaccinated.


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## Bellasmom (Aug 14, 2008)

Capsules are ment to be time released so I wouldnt sprinkle them on his food. I always put mine in the middle of some velveeta cheese and gave it to my dog that way and she took it without realizing it.You could put it in the middle of any treat you could find that he would gobble down quickly to make sure she gets the whole thing. 

I think its great that you have taken him in like this. He is very luckey. Have you given him a name?


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## Jason Carlton (Dec 24, 2008)

Lulusmom, to be honest, I really don't know whether we'll keep him. I've grown very attached to him, but I simply don't have the ability to have a dog like him. So, do I go with my heart, or with logic? LOL

Either way, Bellasmom, I've made the mistake of naming him, so he's probably going to stay whether it's logical or not  We're calling him "Bane".

Interestingly enough, we thought he was a girl at first; his belly was too sore to pick him up, but he squats to pee and has a more feminine temperament, so we made a guess. So at first, we were calling him Bella, too. When we found out that he was a boy, though, then we figured that "Bella" would have been short for "Belladonna", and "Wolfsbane" is a common name for Belladonna; thus, "Bane" came from "Bella".

Anyway, the vet mentioned that we couldn't be sure if he had already been vaccinated, but since he had gotten so bad at such a young age then he doubted it. And within a few hours, Bane was doing a lot better than before, so I think it was a good thing to do. He's taking the cephalexin with his soft food like a champ, and has started to follow me around the yard, so he's a thousand times better than before 

The only thing that worries me is that he whimpers a lot when I'm with him now, and he used to not whimper at all. I'm not sure if this is an indicator that he's in pain now, or just doesn't want me to leave. Either way, it's very heart breaking! He's having normal bowel movements still, and eating fine, so I don't _think_ that he's in pain (at least, no more than before), but it still worries me that he may be having belly pains from the parasites.

It's rainy here right now, but it's supposed to be nice on Tuesday. So I'm going to try to give him a gentle bath with Sulfodene then, and afterward I'll post another picture. You will be amazed at how much better he looks now, after that first picture that I posted!


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## Jason Carlton (Dec 24, 2008)

Jason Carlton said:


> It's rainy here right now, but it's supposed to be nice on Tuesday. So I'm going to try to give him a gentle bath with Sulfodene then, and afterward I'll post another picture. You will be amazed at how much better he looks now, after that first picture that I posted!


Here's an up-to-date picture, as promised!

http://www.gowilkes.com/Bane, 2 weeks after Promeris.jpg

This is 2 weeks after his first dose of Promeris, and he goes back tomorrow for a second dose and a checkup. He's chewing on a raw hide, which is a much better chew toy than my hands! LOL

Just for the sake of reference, here's the original picture that I took on his first day with me:

http://www.gowilkes.com/DCP_0693.JPG

Honestly, you wouldn't think it was the same dog. This one is hyper and playful, is on his way to being house trained, and is currently sleeping at my feet, under my desk


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## Moonshadow (Nov 9, 2008)

He looks so much better! What a cute little guy! 

So are you going with your heart and keeping him or logic and finding him a home? I always try to go with logic but it never works for me. I have one here that we brought home at 5 months and we were going to try to get her better and place her....she'll be 6 this year and is still here! LOL


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

You know, looking at him, he doesn't look like a hound mix. He looks like an Aussie or Border Collie.


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## Moonshadow (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm thinking maybe a Blue Heeler or Cattle Dog mix. There's no white on his feet and you would think he'd get that from an Aussie or BC wouldn't you? The hair coming in looks brown on the toes.

Whatever he is he's cute!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Could be, the Merle in his coat and it's length made me think Aussie. Perhaps a mix?


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Whatever he is he is adorable! If I had him I'm not so sure I'ld be able to part with the little guy. I am such a sucker for a cute and fuzzy face. 

Anyway, Jason you have done such a wonderful job with Bane that I hope you find a way to keep him. I doubt he could find a better home. Kudos to you guy for a job well done. 


Jihad
and the pound puppy crew.


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## Jason Carlton (Dec 24, 2008)

Sorry for the late reply; my Gmail was filtering the emails from here, so I didn't realize that anyone had responded!

I guess that I'm keeping him. To be quite honest, putting all emotion aside, I don't think that I could find anyone to take him with the knowledge of the medical expenses that are ahead. And I live in an area where people are more likely to shoot him than to spend $5 on him  Sadly, I've seen that more times than I can count.

The vet thinks that he's an Australian Shepherd / Beagle mix. His hair still hasn't come in well enough to be sure, but I think that his face and legs are white and his feet are brown. I'll know more in a couple of weeks, though... if he would just stop scratching! The dying mites are making him scratch a lot, so I'm bathing him in Sulfodene twice a week, but Tritop (like Neosporin) seems to help more than anything else.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Try getting a Neem oil shampoo, it will help kill the mites and relieve his itching. Sulfodene is very drying and may make the itching worse. Glad to hear he's found a permanent home!


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi Jason,

I am so happy to hear that Bane is going to be a permanent member of your family. He is totally adorable and I think he is going to be mighty handsome when he grows up. You've done a tremendous job of taking care of the little guy and he is so very lucky to have had the good fortune to find you. I do hope that you keep posting pictures of his progress.


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