# What is your opinion of the word Mutt?



## sugnim (Sep 19, 2012)

I notice that a lot of shelter dogs in my area come with breed descriptions that really don't seem to match the dog. I know that a lot of times shelter workers just have to give their best guess regarding dog breeds, but I wonder why they aren't ever described as mutts or mixed breed. Is mutt a bad word to use? What do you think about the word mutt?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

See my signature - I have no issues with the word.

Shelters, though, are trying to let people know what to expect. The size (for puppies), personality or breed traits (more or less likely to get along with other dogs, vocalness, energy level, prey-drive, etc.). Someone looking to adopt a Chi would likely be unhappy with a JRT. It's not that unknown is bad, it's that some effort at letting people know what they're getting, rather than a complete crap shoot, is helpful.

THAT said, you see a lot of Xs for crosses, or 'mixes'. Ie: "Chi-X" Or 'Pit mix'. There's nothing wrong with mutt, IMO, though thinking about it I've seen some people react negatively to it, especially in light of the designer dog, smooshed name thing going on, now. I still think it's mostly about trying to let people know what they're getting, though. Or maybe to make them seem more desirable. That's best case. Once in a while you run into a situation where the shelter is trying to hide something (I've seen a shelter near me, ADMIT, to adopting pits out as lab mixes, and a wolf hybrid that wasn't even LEGAL in the state out as a huskey mix.)


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I think mutt tends to have a negative association in the minds of people. You say mutt and a lot of people will think of a dirty street dog, a mix of so many breeds that there's no hope of guessing, a dog they don't want to deal with.
Me, I've never really minded the word mutt until someone called Diesel one. Granted, I can't be 100% certain what Diesel is, but I call him a Border Collie mix. Because I feel confident in him having the better part of one breed, to be easily identified with it, I wouldn't call him a mutt. 

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, 'mix' is two or more completely identifiable breeds (like a Sibe X Dobe mixing with a Lab would create a Sibe, Dobe, Lab mix) and a mutt, there's no hope in hell of guessing. 

I don't know if that makes any sense -.- ignore me Dx


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Mutt to me = unknown mixed breed dog. I see no bad connotation to the word. Our mixed breed growing up we called a German Shepherd mix because we knew he was at least half GSD. Someone calling him a mutt wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest.


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## TorachiKatashi (Sep 29, 2010)

I've never seen anything wrong with it.

Some people will just look for anything to be offended by.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I agree with Laurelin. Mutt = unknown mix to me, although I used to call my last dog my "big mutt" even though I knew the two breeds in him. If the dog looks very much like a certain breed, or if I know the two breeds, I'll often say "border collie mix" or "chow/German Shepherd mix" or whatever instead. But the word "mutt" itself has no negative connotations to me. However, context definitely matters -- there's a big difference between someone saying, "Aww, look at that cute scruffy mutt!" and, "That dog's nothing but a _mutt_." You can usually tell when someone's being disdainful.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I wish "mutt" were acceptable. I have no idea what Kabota is and I hate having to come up with a guess, mostly because the best guess (border collie mix) is met with "but border collies don't come in that colour". Yes, they do come in gold, but I don't have time to explain masking genes to you.*

As to why it's unacceptable, I don't know. I just know that I used it at the dog park once and got quite the lecture from a complete stranger that ended with "and if you don't love you dog, maybe you should give him to someone who does!" Okay, then, crazy lady.


*I don't mind explaining that to board members, but I only come here when I have time and am in the mood to have a discussion. On the street or at the dog park, I'm busy paying attention to my dog.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I have two bitches who happen to be bastards, so "mutt" is not an issue.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

RonE said:


> I have two bitches who happen to be bastards, so "mutt" is not an issue.


I watch Westminster every year on TV, and it's a bit of a weird experience.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

I don't think much of the word mutt. Then again, I'm not a native English speaker. 

The Dutch term for mutt is 'bastaard' (yes, in English you could translate that as bastard). And that word is pretty much a no-no in Dutch. People are offended when you call their dog a bastaard, as much as English speaking people would be offended when you call their dog a mutt. 

I suppose it's also the way people say it, like Crantastic mentioned. The main difference between the Dutch bastaard and the English mutt is that while the word mutt can be used without sounding mean, as I just read in responses above, the word bastaard is always unfriendly.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

I think maybe the shelters use the frase of dobie mixed...or beagle mixed or german shephard mixed and so forth..it gives an inclination to someone adopting of what they are partially getting in the dog.Just to say "mutt' would mean no clue what is in there or how big or small it may be.I just think thats a more adoptable approach for them then saying we have a shelter full of mutts.Once your home with your dog you are more then welcome to call your dog a"mutt' ha.ha..


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## gmros (Jul 24, 2012)

Long ago when I didn't know any better, I thought mutt was like a stray. Now that I know what it really means, I prefer calling my puppy mutt. It's a lot shorter to say than saying all his breeds.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

gmros said:


> Long ago when I didn't know any better, I thought mutt was like a stray. Now that I know what it really means, I prefer calling my puppy mutt. It's a lot shorter to say than saying all his breeds.


I actually used to think it was some kind of insult, too - when I was really young, the family dog was a chiX, and whenever someone would call her a mutt, I'd get all up in arms. These days - Kylie's My Mutt Princess, and that's just about the end of it. Saves all sorts of time and clarifies that, no, I don't think she's some special designer 'purebred' hybrid.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

I have no problem at all with the word "mutt" and it somewhat baffles me that people might.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

When I hear someone say "Mutt" I assume mixed breed, whether or not they know the mixes involved. Personally, I refer to dogs as "Breed cross" or "breed mixes" if I know one or more of the breeds that make up a substantial amount of the mix.

I think perhaps people with "designer dogs" (labradoodles, etc.) might get offended at the term mutt because weren't most current breeds mutts at one point? Labradoodles are being bred with a specific look and traits in mind... so when does the line get drawn between being a mix and a breed?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> When I hear someone say "Mutt" I assume mixed breed, whether or not they know the mixes involved. Personally, I refer to dogs as "Breed cross" or "breed mixes" if I know one or more of the breeds that make up a substantial amount of the mix.
> 
> I think perhaps people with "designer dogs" (labradoodles, etc.) might get offended at the term mutt because weren't most current breeds mutts at one point? Labradoodles are being bred with a specific look and traits in mind... so when does the line get drawn between being a mix and a breed?


The line gets drawn there because breeds breed true, when bred to themselves. Designer dogs do not. They are most often the offspring of two purebred dogs (of different breeds). That is NOT how you create a breed. It isn't about mixing other dogs into a line to create something, it's about the fact that they're mixing TWO breeds, and selling the F1 offspring as some kind of breed. They aren't. That just isn't how it works. 

If, and when, they can get consistency amongst the dogs, where 'doodles are breeding to doodles and creating a dog that is consistently within the standard they've set for themselves, they will have a breed. Until then, they have - lab/poodle mixes. And labradoodles are the CLOSEST of the designer dog mess to creating some kind of breed, and they are still miles, and miles away. The rest- aren't even TRYING. They think a beagle/Chi is a breed. Again. Not how breeds, or breed creation, works. It isn't even CLOSE.

(And for what it's worth, I say that as someone who's a big fancier of a breed that was recognized by the AKC slightly over two years ago, the UKC less than 4 years ago, and is made up of a mix of a whole lot of dogs. THat 'whole lot of other breeds' is important. It takes generations of dogs to get there.)


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Sydney's a mutt. Much shorter and easier than going through all the breeds that might maybe be in there, in day to day conversations with strangers.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I came across a breeder trying to breed for BLUE EYED GOLDENDOODLES and her F2 crosses and F3 crosses were extremely inconsistent. The same litter would produce typical goldendoodles, poodles and goldens. That was spun as a selling point- get whatever coat your heart desires!

Blech.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Amaryllis said:


> I came across a breeder trying to breed for BLUE EYED GOLDENDOODLES and her F2 crosses and F3 crosses were extremely inconsistent. The same litter would produce typical goldendoodles, poodles and goldens. That was spun as a selling point- get whatever coat your heart desires!
> 
> Blech.


And that's the thing - yes, there are long or short haired varieties of many dogs, or size variations. Sometimes a bit of an ear variation (up or down), and some breeds will occasionally (very!) throw a weird one (fluffy cardies or coated Rots) but the consistency is there, over all. Those variations are bred FOR, to be kept as part of the breed. The genetics are known, it's an intentional thing (with varieties, not the very rare throwbacks) and the varieties are consistent - a chi with a long coat has a very specific SORT of coat. Doodles- there's nothing consistent. Size, color, coat - nothing there is consistent. It's just - not a breed, anymore than the earlier mixes that were done to make the rat terrier, were. The difference is, I guess, they were going somewhere, rather than thinking they'd arrived.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

For dog people, the term mutt is just fine. For normal people, the term mutt is mostly fine.

For shelters, well, they don't use the term mutt because it's easier to get a dog adopted when they're listed as a "husky mix" or something. Or you see lots of bully mixes get labeled as "lab mix" depending on the area. For the average person, a something mix sounds more interesting and appealing than a mutt.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Loni was our Black Lab/Chow Hybrid..
When people asked what she was..We never used the "M Word" ..
We just told them that she was a Black Bitch and avoided using the M word..


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Apparently (as SOB once explained), it's a word with a pejorative background. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=mutt

But I doubt most younger people know any of that. I kinda like it. I'm fine with my dogs being the muttliest muttly mutts.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

> Apparently (as SOB once explained), it's a word with a pejorative background.


Hmm so it is! I never knew that. Lets reclaim the word in the name of mutts everywhere! I really enjoy telling people Pete is a rescue mutt. Pretty much everyone who meets him asks what breed he is, I feel good about plugging shelter dogs and usually the other person ventures a guess or two about breed possibilities, always a nice little exchange.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Nothing wrong with the term, but it's totally about the tone in which it is used. I often call Kit a shelter mutt, and I don't mean that derogatorily at all. But if someone said "get your dirty mutt outta my yard" then I might take offense.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Strauss's nickname is Muttley and he's a purebred GSD xD I frequently call my dogs mutts. I have no problem with the word, and this PC junk is really obnoxious.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Xeph said:


> and this PC junk is really obnoxious.


Apparently there were racial overtones (toward the Welsh? I think). I bet there are words you wouldn't want to hear used casually.


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## odiesmom (May 31, 2007)

I don't have mutts. I have designer dogs LOL


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I bet there are words you wouldn't want to hear used casually.


Really depends on context for me. I have a feeling you'd probably be pretty offended at some of the conversations my friends and I have.

Lots of the words I don't care for aren't offensive to me...they just annoy me.

I have a strong dislike for the word "moist".


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Willowy said:


> Apparently there were racial overtones (toward the Welsh? I think). I bet there are words you wouldn't want to hear used casually.


But how often do you hear people described as "mutts" now? (I have heard it, but rarely.) How many people know the etymology of the word? If you asked 100 people what they thought of when you said the word "mutt," how many of them would say "a dog"? A lot, I bet. It's similar to the word "gyp" ("gypped"), which everyone uses nowadays to mean "ripped off" or "cheated." It's short for "gypsy" and is a nasty commentary on their stereotypical behavior. I don't think most people know that, but I don't see the point in scolding someone for using the word. They're not trying to be bigoted, and neither are most of the people who use the word "mutt." If they _are_ being offensive, it's evident in their context. And while I dismiss "language evolves" arguments when it comes to people deliberately misusing words or trying to justify saying something like "that shirt is so _gay_," I'm happy to see language evolving in cases like this... seeing very old, offensive meanings forgotten and replaced by much more innocuous ones.


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## jersey_gray (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't see anything wrong with the term mutt. I happen to love mutts!

Okay, just read through the whole post and learned all about the origins of the words "mutt" and "gypped". Interesting. I knew gyp came from gypsy but honestly just never thought much of it, didn't know mutt came from muttonhead.


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## Max and Me (Aug 19, 2011)

I don't have a problem with the term mutt. I refer to Jake as my rescued Labramutt. I primarily keep death row mutts. I absolutely refuse to use "designer breed" names. Just a way to rip off people by calling a mutt a designer breed IMO.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Max and Me said:


> I don't have a problem with the term mutt. I refer to Jake as my rescued Labramutt. I primarily keep death row mutts. I absolutely refuse to use "designer breed" names. Just a way to rip off people by calling a mutt a designer breed IMO.



Yep. And also I'm a little afraid if I use some dumb designer breed name for Kylie they'll do something dumb - like try to go find a 'breeder' of 'cheagles'. And I want no part of being responsible for any of that, thanks.


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## jenz (Aug 20, 2010)

I personally don't like the word "mutt" very much. I used to be in the show fancy (AKC) and heard too many conformation folks use it derogatorily. Now this was 15 years ago, maybe things changed but I remember people going ballistic if you even said "Husky" because that didn't refer to a purebred. If you wanted to shorten "Siberian Husky" you said "Sibe" NOT "husky" because Husky could mean a generic husky, like an Alaskan Husky. That's how neurotic everyone was about purebred vs. "mutt". I always felt it was an "us vs. them" mentality... but that was just my feelings from the experience.

So I think the fallout from those years is that I'm very sensitive to "mutt" and it being a negative word. I prefer "mix."

Jen


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Strauss's nickname is Muttley and he's a purebred GSD xD I frequently call my dogs mutts. I have no problem with the word, and this PC junk is really obnoxious.


I find this interesting in a good way.  I also purposely named one shelter dog I rescued and re-homed years ago "Muttley" ... and not in a disrespectful way. He was as cute as anything! ... a little Collie mix.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I have no issues with the term mutt. To me, it just means a mixed dog, regardless of whether the breeds in the mix are known, although personally I am more likely to call the dog a Collie X or a Bulldog mix, etc.

Maybe some of you can clear something up for me... a designer mutt (like a labradoodle), that is bred for a specific look and traits... when does the distinction of being a separate breed come in? Aren't most current purebreeds descendants of mixes? Just curious.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> I have no issues with the term mutt. To me, it just means a mixed dog, regardless of whether the breeds in the mix are known, although personally I am more likely to call the dog a Collie X or a Bulldog mix, etc.
> 
> Maybe some of you can clear something up for me... a designer mutt (like a labradoodle), that is bred for a specific look and traits... when does the distinction of being a separate breed come in? Aren't most current purebreeds descendants of mixes? Just curious.


Breeds are descendents of mixes, yes. The difference comes in, in that designer 'mixes' don't breed true. Ie: A litter 2 labradoodles have you will get typical 'doodles, dogs that look just like goldens, and dogs that look just like poodles. Also, most dogs sold as designer 'breeds' are first generation crosses. Ie: A purebred poodle and a purebreed golden have a litter of doodles. Breeds are developed over many, many generations, breed true and consistently and to their standard. Labradoodles are MAYBE working toward that, right now, but they're the closest and they're still miles and miles away from a-) consistency, and b-) dogs being produced by breeding labradoodles to labradoodles and getting that constistency, rather than a labXpoodle.

There's more discussion about it, about a page back.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

To me mutt = mixed breed. I'm not very sensitive to words, and think sometimes people get carried away with terms and all. I tend to take things in general meaning.


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## BrittanyG (May 27, 2009)

Abbylynn said:


> I also purposely named one shelter dog I rescued and re-homed years ago "Muttley" ... and not in a disrespectful way. He was as cute as anything! ... a little Collie mix.


I used to LOVE the show "Mac and Muttley". So cute!

I don't use mutt myself, I just say mix. No reason, I just don't ..like the word. Like moist, ugh.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Really depends on context for me. I have a feeling you'd probably be pretty offended at some of the conversations my friends and I have.
> 
> Lots of the words I don't care for aren't offensive to me...they just annoy me.
> 
> I have a strong dislike for the word "moist".


That's not just me? That word makes my skin crawl.

My dog's nickname among the rappers that my husband records is "little n***er". I'm not calling Kabota that, but he seems to like it.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Things I learned in the last few posts:

-"Moist" is a word that some people don't like - never ever thought about it before! 

-"Mutt" was once a racist term.

-"Gypped" isn't spelled "jipped" LOL (I actually have never seen it written out until now).

-"Gyp" is a short form of gypsy.




> Loni was our Black Lab/Chow Hybrid..
> When people asked what she was..We never used the "M Word" ..
> We just told them that she was a Black Bitch and avoided using the M word..


Imagine saying that without a dog around. Telling people what your Black Bitch did. I wonder what people would think. 




> And while I dismiss "language evolves" arguments when it comes to people deliberately misusing words or trying to justify saying something like "that shirt is so gay," I'm happy to see language evolving in cases like this... seeing very old, offensive meanings forgotten and replaced by much more innocuous ones.


See...this brings up an interesting point. 

The original meaning for "gay" has already gone poof (it used to mean happy, not a man that preferred men - which was a misuse of the word). 

Language evolving...doesn't that happen from "creative usage" (read: misuse) of words that happens to catch on?


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

I call mine mutts all the time...because they are. Nothing wrong with it IMHO.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

This is right up there with things I couldn't care less about. Mutt, regardless of whatever old meaning it had, no longer has that meaning for me and is largely socially acceptable to say, so my dogs are mutts. 



zhaor said:


> For dog people, the term mutt is just fine. For normal people, the term mutt is mostly fine.
> 
> For shelters, well, they don't use the term mutt because it's easier to get a dog adopted when they're listed as a "husky mix" or something. Or you see lots of bully mixes get labeled as "lab mix" depending on the area. For the average person, a something mix sounds more interesting and appealing than a mutt.


Eh, at my shelter there is really no elaborate process behind not using mutt. People guess what breed they think it is and put it up on their cage cards. That's about it. And basically every dog gets put up as "mix" even if they're obviously the breed they're supposed to be, and that has something to do with not being able to guarantee it is that breed because we don't generally have any history on the dog.


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

I don't have any problem with the word mutt. I've called myself a mutt for years before I ever had a dog, since I was the first person on my mom's side of the family to not be 100% of her heritage. But when I tell people that my dog is a mutt, many think that I'm talking down about her, and will try to say "but she's so pretty" "she seems really nice" or whatever. I even sometimes make a conscious effort to call her a mutt - to let people know that it's not just purebreds and designer dogs that look cool; mutts can be pretty awesome and interesting too (people are constantly stopping me to tell me how pretty/unusual Buffy is).

I don't like the word mongrel though and don't like when people call her that. But I guess it's a double-standard on my part. And, if I have to write down her breed, I'll usually say mixed.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Buffy is pretty AWESOME looking. She has a wild look about her, kindof reminds me of a hyena... but MUCH nicer.


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## marebear (Sep 21, 2012)

zhaor said:


> For shelters, well, they don't use the term mutt because it's easier to get a dog adopted when they're listed as a "husky mix" or something. Or you see lots of bully mixes get labeled as "lab mix" depending on the area. For the average person, a something mix sounds more interesting and appealing than a mutt.


 Here shelters use "terrier mix" for pitbulls. 
I don't think anything is wrong with the term mutt


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

I prefer "mixed breed" but I do call my own dogs mutts and I call my van the "Mutt-mobile". My agility club refers to mixed breeds as "All Americans". As long as the term isn't used in a derogatory way....


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> Maybe some of you can clear something up for me... a designer mutt (like a labradoodle), that is bred for a specific look and traits... when does the distinction of being a separate breed come in? Aren't most current purebreeds descendants of mixes? Just curious.


This comes up so often that I think we might need a sticky. Does anyone actually read stickies?

After about 20-30 generations of breeding true, come back and talk to me about a new breed.


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## workerant (Feb 28, 2011)

My dog is a mutt. So am I, being your typical American mishmash of nationalities and ethnicities. President Obama called himself a mutt. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me!


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Depends on who's saying it.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

I call Biscuit a mutt, not a "Retriever Mix," although she obviously is that. That's partly because when I say I have a "Retriever Mix," unless Biscuit is standing right there people usually assume I mean I have a Doodle, and then I get grumpy. I'm not a Doodle person at all.

People ask me what breed Biscuit is all the time. I get stopped on the street. Despite her blonde beauty, the DNA test said she's a real mix of mixes. I've thought about calling her an "American Standard" but I don't think Joe on the street would get that without further chitchat. I actually do get pushback about "mutt" sometimes - like the lady at the dog park last weekend who insisted Biscuit is a "Cogol." Apparently that's what they're calling golden/cocker mixes these days? Regardless, no. 

I did get a little annoyed that the evil mutant animals in "The Hunger Games" were called "Muttations" or "Mutts" for short, though! Come on lady, give 'em a break.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

RonE said:


> This comes up so often that I think we might need a sticky. Does anyone actually read stickies?
> 
> After about 20-30 generations of breeding true, come back and talk to me about a new breed.


I think a sticky would be a good idea... I tried searching for it but all the search terms I could think of related to it brought up several hundred results, most of which were unrelated.  A search of google isn't particularly useful either - most of the websites that come up either describe what a breed is as a concept, and then go on to say that new breeds are awful, etc.

In an more thread-related note, I found Animal Planet's Mutt Maker, which is kind of fun.


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## Keyray (Jun 30, 2011)

When I was younger mutt wasn't really considered a good word to call anything. I also wasn't quite fond of the word since for a short period of time elementary I was called a mutt.

Now a days I just associate the word for a mixed breed. I always call Vada my mutt. I also just don't know what else to call her. Even the shelter wasn't quite sure what to call her. They just labeled her as a terrier mix because of her size.

I have found though that a decent portion of people who ask me what breed she is don't seem to respond that great to mutt. I tell most people that I don't know or most of the time say she's a mutt and they give a look that just screams "how could you not know what your dog is". 

Though a couple movers that frequent our neighborhood, since many families frequently move here, like calling her Heinz 57.


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## jersey_gray (Dec 8, 2011)

So Cavalier said:


> I prefer "mixed breed" but I do call my own dogs mutts and I call my van the "Mutt-mobile". My agility club refers to mixed breeds as "All Americans". As long as the term isn't used in a derogatory way....


I believe in some countries mutts are referred to as the American dog.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Now that I've thought about this for a while, I think I can take it both ways depending on how it's said.
Since 'mutt' is often used a derogatory word for dogs, it can have offense in it, depending on how it's used.

For example, if someone walked up to Diesel and said 'So, he's a mutt?' and DIDN'T take a tone with it, I'd likely say 'yep.'
If someone walked up to Diesel and said it with a little disdain in their voice, I'd likely take it as offense. 
Around here, very very few people will call a dog (mixed or not) a 'mutt' and not mean anything by it. And I do tend to get ticked when someone tries to insult my dogs.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

my opinion is thats its just a word, Mutt is a lot friendlier sounding then the other things I call my dogs! lol mixed breeds, mutts makes no difference to me, just dont call it a "designer breed" THAT drives me crazy, it is NOT a breed. "breeds" breed true, like + like = like, designer mutts do NOT breed true, a doodle X doodle results in less consistant offspring, not more. a designer dog is a mutt, a mixed breed, whatever you wanna call it, reguardless it is NOT a breed! 

with my own dogs, either I call them "whatever mixes" or mutts depends, if someone asked what kind of dogs I have and want to know all 8, I simpley say I have "2 BCs, 1 Toller and 5 mutts" if I have just 2 or 3 out and people ask I will say "these 2 are Heeler Mixes" or whatever, if I have just the one I will list their whole mix, if I just have Gem I will say she is a "Heeler X German Shepherd" etc.. or sometimes I list off what mine are mixes of and if they ask about the other 2 I just say "muttlies" its easiler, Ripley is a Schipperkie X Bosten Terrier, and if I say that then they wanna know what a Schipperkie is lol, and Perky we have no idea what she is, so its easier to just say they are "mutts".


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## melaka (Mar 31, 2010)

People do seem to get annoyed when I tell them that I don't know what Buffy is. The one thing I'm pretty sure she has in her background is Pug, going by her mother's looks. However, when I tell some people that I think she's a Pug mix, I get some pretty funny looks. Though others do suggest it right off the bat - something about her face.

Anyway, while we were out walking last night, I had someone ask me about her. When I said mutt, he responded "wow that's one good looking mutt." That's why I like to use the term.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

RonE said:


> This comes up so often that I think we might need a sticky. Does anyone actually read stickies?
> 
> After about 20-30 generations of breeding true, come back and talk to me about a new breed.


Can I remind posters here that the main founder (and his brother who was also a founder) of the Cavalier King Charles breed was most likely a Phalene mix?

Keep in mind a full conversation can be had about what really is a 'breed' and how that word became usurped to mean only dogs with a known heritage in a closed registry . . . didn't used to be that way as the word 'breed' was most often used to describe dogs of a discernable 'type' - no known heritage necessary (hence Ann's Son having a standard written around his appearance and a breed developed from him!) 

So when did this 20-30 generations of breeding true rule come in to play?

What IS breeding true? Can any of us define what that is? There are MANY breeds today that STILL come in different coat types (wire & smooth, long and short etc.) and a wide size and also color range.

For instance, the the Tibetan Spaniel breed dogs up to 15 inches in height and in the 20 pound range were accepted in the ring until the mid 70s, along with the smaller (10") version that finally 'politically' won the battle and became entrenched as 'standard'. Until that point in time a wide range in 'standard' was acceptable as the landrace they came from and that they are supposed to be preserving had a wide range.

So, whilst a designer cross of two breeds cannot be named a breed (anymore) I just wanted to mention those points.

"Breeding true' is an undefinable concept. Some 'breeds' were named LONG LONG before they were even near what most of us would consider 'breeding true'.

For a visual.


















SOB


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

It's definitely not a perfect classification, but I tend to say "breed in development" when talking about dogs that people are actively trying to make into a breed, and "new breed" once they've gotten several generations in (I haven't decided how many generations I consider enough; I don't know enough about breeding to make that determination) with a consistent look and temperament. Both of these are different from just breeding a pug and a beagle together over and over and selling each pup as a "puggle."

(Note: I don't have a problem with people breeding puggles or cockapoos or whatever else, really, as long as the breeder is reputable -- and again, each buyer should thoroughly educate him or herself and decide what they consider reputable. Technically, though, I do not consider f1 mixes to be a breed, or a breed in development. The breeders would have to be carefully choosing offspring and using them in the breeding program, and often crossing in another breed or two in an attempt to achieve the look and temperament they were striving for, before I'd give them that classification. I'd also like to see careful records kept and a written standard to work towards.)


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

To me shelters say what the breed of the dog is so the person knows what they're getting. Oh it's mixed with a Chow and Shepherd, I can look up those particular breeds and know what my dog will be like. If they just put mutt, the person would be guessing. Many people are guessing anyway as not all shelter employees, in my opinion, know what the dog is mixed with unless you can clearly see they are a Lab Mix. 

I don't look down on the word mutt at all. To me a mutt is a dog mixed with one or more breeds. They'll have the quality of both breeds. Sometimes when I do get mad at an owner of their dog, I'll call their dog a mutt even if it's a purebred. But that's always under my breath and it's usually pointed towards aggressive dogs or owners who can't handle their dogs and annoying mine. Oh and I like to say the word "mutt" or "mixed breed", to me the word mongrel is a mean sounding word although its meaning is the same. And mutts are cool dogs!


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

RonE said:


> This comes up so often that I think we might need a sticky. Does anyone actually read stickies?
> 
> After about 20-30 generations of breeding true, come back and talk to me about a new breed.


Hey now! Aussies are barley at 10 generations of breeding true (and even then there is a wide variety in type) But I love my little mutts


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

KBLover said:


> Imagine saying that without a dog around. Telling people what your Black Bitch did. I wonder what people would think.


For some reason ...When you say it like that!!!..its sounds kinda wrong.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> I don't look down on the word mutt at all. To me a mutt is a dog mixed with one or more breeds. They'll have the quality of both breeds. Sometimes when I do get mad at an owner of their dog, I'll call their dog a mutt even if it's a purebred. But that's always under my breath and it's usually pointed towards aggressive dogs or owners who can't handle their dogs and annoying mine.


This is internally inconsistent...and I would think very poorly of you if I heard you saying that. Just saying, maybe you should come up with a better insult.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> To me shelters say what the breed of the dog is so the person knows what they're getting. Oh it's mixed with a Chow and Shepherd, I can look up those particular breeds and know what my dog will be like. If they just put mutt, the person would be guessing. Many people are guessing anyway as not all shelter employees, in my opinion, know what the dog is mixed with unless you can clearly see they are a Lab Mix.
> 
> I don't look down on the word mutt at all. To me a mutt is a dog mixed with one or more breeds. They'll have the quality of both breeds. * Sometimes when I do get mad at an owner of their dog, I'll call their dog a mutt even if it's a purebred*. But that's always under my breath and it's usually pointed towards aggressive dogs or owners who can't handle their dogs and annoying mine. Oh and I like to say the word "mutt" or "mixed breed", to me the word mongrel is a mean sounding word although its meaning is the same. And mutts are cool dogs!


Thus you use the word 'mutt' disparagingly.

Where do you believe (in your life) the negative connotation for that word came from?

I've explained where it came from for my generation and heritage many times. Younger posters seem to imply it no longer has that connotation BUT my experience teaching tells me the word is still used disparagingly even amongst teens today, so I'm gonna ask you a rough idea of your age for my curiousity. (I'm over 50 myself).

I use the word 'mutt' affectionately sometimes, but just like I won't call someone else's dog a little turd (another affectionate word we use here) I won't call their dog a 'mutt' as I understand it too often is used to belittle . . . so I just think it is not nice to do so unless it is very obvious it is being used with affection.

SOB


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

hamandeggs--I guess that's the only word I can come up with at the time b/c both dog and owner are annoying. I guess if I think about it now, it does sound a bit stupid as I did state mutts are cool.

spanielorbust--I don't have a problem with mutts at all. I've worked in kennels most of my life and the mixed breeds there are great. I had a problem with just one, but it was me not the dog's fault. I actually was almost attacked by a purebred black Lab. I think my thinking is I want to get the person angry by calling her purebred a mutt even though the owner cannot hear me. 
I am going to be 30yrs old this October. I'm sorry for saying that, I guess I should've thought that since this is a dog forum some people here may take my statement to be cruel or think I'm saying something against mutts. I'm not, mutts are cool dogs as I've stated already, but yes, I'll think up another term to use.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> hamandeggs--I guess that's the only word I can come up with at the time b/c both dog and owner are annoying. I guess if I think about it now, it does sound a bit stupid as I did state mutts are cool.
> 
> spanielorbust--I don't have a problem with mutts at all. . .


I totally understand what you are saying here . . . but it is inconsistent. I think many people do exactly this so thank you for putting it to words.



Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> . . . I think my thinking is I want to get the person angry by calling her purebred a mutt even though the owner cannot hear me.


. . . and this is the part that shows that you have an understanding that the word 'mutt' can be used in such a way as to deliberately bother people. It does not matter if you (yourself) find mutts perfectly fine and no less than purebreds. It shows an understanding that the word can be aimed as a weapon . . . and in my experience it is all too commonly.



Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> . I am going to be 30yrs old this October. I'm sorry for saying that, I guess I should've thought that since this is a dog forum some people here may take my statement to be cruel or think I'm saying something against mutts. I'm not, mutts are cool dogs as I've stated already, but yes, I'll think up another term to use.


I didn't (and don't) think your statement reflected a dislike of mixbred or mutt or mongrel dogs. It reflects something about the way the *word* is used. It was an honest statement and there is nothing wrong with putting your thoughts out there . . . that is what forums are for (I believe).

SOB


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

spanielorbust said:


> I've explained where it came from for my generation and heritage many times. Younger posters seem to imply it no longer has that connotation BUT my experience teaching tells me the word is still used disparagingly even amongst teens today, so I'm gonna ask you a rough idea of your age for my curiousity. (I'm over 50 myself).


I have to say I've never heard the word "mutt" used in an affectionate way - usually the owners say "he's a {insert breed name}-mix", "a mixed breed" (which doesn't make sense, but whatever), or if they know the exact mix, they'll say "Lab-Collie mix", for example. Some have asked if Wally was a Bichon-mix or a Maltese-mix (or "what is he, a Maltese and what to make him a little bigger?") - but never a mutt, probably for the same reason you mention that it, at least potentially, be insulting.

I'm 35. No idea you were over 50  For some reason I thought you were like 28 or something LOL.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

spanielorbust said:


> What IS breeding true? Can any of us define what that is? There are MANY breeds today that STILL come in different coat types (wire & smooth, long and short etc.) and a wide size and also color range.


Seems to depend on what Club it is. 

For example, the AKC says Cotons have to be White - which is like...completely wrong. Cotons are PREDOMINATELY white - they don't have to be "Maltese white". White (with/without minor light tan on 'edges'), White/Black, Tricolor. All legit. Wally's the white-with-light-tan variety, but I know he's not the only "real" color of a Coton. Seems AKC has gone with the French tendency to want to make Cotons only white, stripping the natural variety they have. *sigh*

I hope no one does that to Border Collies. I love the "classic" Border Collie coloration, but I love how you can line up 100 of them and see so many different color patterns!


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

spanielorbust--I thought about it some more and realized whenever I heard someone call their dog a mutt, they normally got angry. I know I got a bit miffed when my employer suggested Luke was a mutt. I had to tell her no, he's a purebred. So maybe that's why I know if I say it to the Boxer's owner, she may hear me and ask me what I said. Then I can tell her to please pay attention to her dog's behavior around mine since they don't like each other; the owner is always out to space. But you're right, it is a weapon and I'm wrong to say it cause mutts are awesome! Maybe I'll call the dog a four-legged weirdo, lol. 

KBLover--that's awesome that you have a Coton too!!


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## beretw (Sep 25, 2012)

I think the term takes on entirely different meanings depending on who is using it. For instance, shelters are trying to market their dogs to prospective adopters, so they use breed names that people are familiar with and may have some connection too. 

For people who insist that their BYB non-pedigreed dog is a pure breed, the word mutt becomes a value judgement against them and their means of acquiring their dog.

For those who really do have a Heinz 57 dog, I think the word is often used sincerely as a descriptor.

And finally, for those of us who have adopted stigmatized breeds, we happily call our dogs mutts because
1. It's true. Without a pedigree, there is no guarantee. As far as the breed registries are concerned, the dogs ARE mutts and;
2. It puts certain people at ease. I have had parents approach me with their children asking to pet my dog. Of course, I say it's absolutely okay. Mid-pet (while my dog is in a calm sit-stay), the parents ask what kind of dog he is. On more than one occasion, when I have said pit bull-mix, they have yanked their kids away and taken off down the sidewalk. Sure, they're being ignorant in the face of a well-mannered, well-trained, friendly dog. But it still stings a bit. When I say "eh, he's a mutt!", the parents are placated.


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