# Advice on cooking for my dog



## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Hi, I am new here and I have been doing a lot of reading and I see that many of you are feeding a raw diet to your dogs and I need some advice.

I have a 7 month old Standard Poodle (which I am hopelessly in love with) that I got when she was eight weeks old. When I brought her home she was on Puppy Chow and was very thin and having some issues with loose stools. At first I thought it was stress related from being in a new home and being in my car for 8 hours when I brought her home, but it didn't go away. After a visit with my vet and some meds I started hunting for some different food. I put her on Nutro Ultra for a while (which she didn't like at all) and eventually switched to Science Diet, which she ate better than the Nutro but never ate more than about 3/4 cup all day and remained very thin.

So, after someone told me about all the bi-products in Science Diet and I did some research I decided to quit using commercial dog food and began to prepare meals at home for her. In just a few weeks she has gained several pounds and she enjoys eating for the first time ever.

My question is, is ok that I cook her food? I see a lot of you feeding raw, but is cooked ok? I try to make it pretty balanced making sure she gets plenty of protein and carbs and her veggies, no salt or sugar and I give her raw bones several times a week. I would do raw but the thought of her eating that raw food and then licking my face just seems gross to me. [/FONT]


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Feeding a cooked dog food is equivalent to feeding a quality kibble. Cooking destroys many of the natural vitamins and enzymes in foods so you will have to supplement and do the research to cook correctly for your dog, just as kibble manufacturers add back in nutrients lost int he cooking process. 

Also, dogs lack the enzyme (cellulase) to break down the cell walls (cellulose) of plant material such as fruits or vegetables. There's no harm in feeding fruit/vegt but just know that it is not digested by the dog and is really just a source of fiber. I feed raw and my dogs get a rare bit of leftover fruit/vegt...but it is really just for adding some variety and interest to their diet. If they like the flavor...no harm, but no real nutritional benefit. You really have to pulverize (mechanically break down the cell walls) plant material for them to derive any value.

Carbs are also not necessary, but not harmful. I don't feed any carbs (one dog is sensitive to all grain products) and I find that their teeth are much cleaner. I can't chalk it up to chewing on bones as my papillons get only ground whole chickens (with bones ground in) and boneless muscle meats due to coming to us with very poor teeth to start with. Yet since starting raw they have not needed a dental in 3 years. My theory is that carbs are starches, break down into simple sugars, feed the bacteria that form plaque on the teeth.

And there was just a thread around here someplace about raw feeding and dogs licking their humans...you might want to look around for that one.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

So really you don't think there is no benefit in me cooking for my dog vs. getting a good quality kibble? And really she doesn't need anything but meat in her diet? I've been adding sweet potatoes, carrots and some green veggies to the meat I fix for her which usually is chicken or beef or venison and I add a little liver to it. I also put the veggies through the food chopper after they are cooked and sometimes I add a little brown rice. While I was researching, before I started cooking, I read that dogs needed the veggies. Is this not true?


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't know enough to tell you whether veggies are good for dogs but I do know they cannot digest raw veggies as they cannot break down the cellulose in them. So you have to cook or puree them.

I was reading up on raw and apparently, dogs have something in their saliva or on their tongues which eliminates the bacteria?? Dogs who eat raw don't have the bacteria that kibble-fed dogs do. I have been feeding my dog raw for a month now and she licks me and I've had no problems. I used to feed her homecooked food and she did well on that too. You just have to deal with raw the same way youwould with the meat you prepare for yourself. 

That being said, cooked food may or may not be as good as raw, but it's certainly better than kibble. One thing you have to consider is the calcium and phosphorus ratio. If you're giving raw bones, then that should take care of the calcium but make sure this ratio is at minimum 2:1 (Cah).

You may also want to add a wild salmon oil capsule daily for the omega 3's. These balance the omega 6's in the meat. I also give my dog vitamin E twice a week. 

I used to feed my dog Canine Life which are muffins, either pre-made or in a pre-mix I bought the pre-mix and added an orange veggie, a green veggie, an apple, blueberries, oil, eggs and meat and then baked them into muffins. It was a pain to make them but I liked that I could vary the ingredients. I'd make 24 at a time and freeze them. My dog loved them and I actually think her coat is better on them than on the raw I'm feeding now. Canine Life is made in Canada but they do deliver to the U.S. but the premix only. There is a Canine Life for Ontario and one in the West - the one in the West is the one that delivers. They have different formulas and can customize them depending on your dog's conditon. They also donate part of the proceeds to a cancer fund.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

My dogs haven't had fruits or veggies for the entire time they've been raw fed (other than a few treats) and they do just fine. In fact I have easy access to running their blood and urine at the lab and have done it a few times since feeding raw just to check their chemistries, looking for any deficiaencies that might occur...nada.

I wouldn't say that you should completely eliminate them from the diet if they like fruits/vegt, but they are not necessary. And if you are going to feed them be sure to blenderize or pulverize in some way.

My dogs also get the remnants of yogurt, cheese, cottage cheese, and a few other things here and there. They also get fish oil and raw eggs mixed in with their food a few times each week. But the basis of their raw diet is 80% eat, 10% bone, 10% organs.

I have seen recipes when I first started researching alternative feeding for my dogs, that talk about using one green vegetable and one orange vegetable...I'm not sure why. There are also quite a few recipes with oatmeal, rice, grains of all sorts. But since I have one dog that cannot tolerate grains, none of the dogs get grains in their diet. And they are all just fine. But what I would suggest is to read several books and do lots of internet research on feeding your dog. There are zillions of ways of coming up with a balanced diet.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

I read that the orange veggies are good for their coats. I use to raise birds and we fed the orange veggies to birds because it made their colors much brighter, I don't know if that is the case with dogs or not (my dog is white so I don't see it helping her color). I just want to do what is best for my dog and I added veggies because I read that they not only needed them but that if you add them to their diet it would add 3 years to your dogs life.

Now, with the raw diet you said that you just feed your dogs chicken, bone and all, you don't have to add anything to that? Maybe I am a wimp, but does it look gross? When I first decided to start fixing my dogs meals myself I considered doing raw but changed my mind when I thought of my dog chewing on a raw bunch of meat. I can't even cut up a chicken without being grossed out, but if you are just grinding the whole thing up that may not be so bad. Right now I give my dog raw bones only when she can be outside so I can't see or here her eating them. (Like I said, I am a wimp)!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I can't stand to touch raw meat. When I give my dogs chicken quarters, I just pull them out of the bag and throw them to the dogs in the yard (no chicken inside!). When I feed them ground beef, I just fork it out of the tube into their bowls. When they get liver, I just fork it out of the tub into their bowls...etc. I've got the "no-touching" thing down pat, LOL. I don't grind, cut, or do anything else to the meat. Now, if my dogs were too small to handle a whole chicken quarter, I'd be in trouble....or I'd find something smaller. Thighs or whatever.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

Willowy said:


> I can't stand to touch raw meat. When I give my dogs chicken quarters, I just pull them out of the bag and throw them to the dogs in the yard (no chicken inside!). When I feed them ground beef, I just fork it out of the tube into their bowls. When they get liver, I just fork it out of the tub into their bowls...etc. I've got the "no-touching" thing down pat, LOL. I don't grind, cut, or do anything else to the meat. Now, if my dogs were too small to handle a whole chicken quarter, I'd be in trouble....or I'd find something smaller. Thighs or whatever.


See, that is what I'm thinking (yuck!). 

So your dogs just eat the raw meat? Really, do they just like it or do you have to teach them to like it?


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

I used to be the same way with the meat, I thought raw meat was SOO gross. Now I have no problem handling all sorts of weird stuff. The only thing that REALLY grossed me out was cutting up a beef tongue.

You get used to it.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Angie's Bella said:


> So your dogs just eat the raw meat? Really, do they just like it or do you have to teach them to like it?


MY dogs will eat anything, LOL. I do mean ANYTHING.....they're garbage guts. My mom's dog won't touch raw chicken. She likes raw beef, though. If she lived with me, she'd eat what I gave her or miss the meal (I don't baby my dogs), but my mom is a softer touch and will tempt her with tastier things. I think most dogs will eat most raw meats. I have heard of some dogs that won't eat organ meats.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Two of our dogs came to us missing quite a few teeth. So we have a butcher grind whole chickens, add some extra organs in (to make the organs 10%+ of the mix), and they return 2 months worth to me in 5 gallon buckets. Then all I do is spoon it into freezer containers that last about 3 days for our dogs. The ground whole chicken is one meal of the day.

The other meal at our house is either something they can manage with bones (whole chicken wings, small legs) or boneless meat with calcium added for the missing bone.

My dogs took to raw food immediately. And since the butcher is already grinding a bit extra organs into the chicken mix, I don't worry too much about organs otherwise. I do buy them beef heart at the grocery (looks like any other piece of raw red meat, not any more gross than other stuff) because it is high in vitamins and amino acids.

Raw fed dogs should get a variety of meats so that you are getting all the necessary vitamins and trace minerals as each species offers different elements. But most everything they get comes from the grocery, just like our human food...I cut up pork roasts, ground beef, stew meat, back ribs...exactly the same as human food.

We live in a temperate climate (most of the time!) so our dogs eat out on the patio. I just hose it off every few days as needed. When the weather is nasty I either feed them in their crates or gate them in the laundry room so they don't spread the mess.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

briteday said:


> Raw fed dogs should get a variety of meats so that you are getting all the necessary vitamins and trace minerals as each species offers different elements. But most everything they get comes from the grocery, just like our human food...I cut up pork roasts, ground beef, stew meat, back ribs...exactly the same as human food.


So you feed pork with no problems? I read that most dogs don't do well with pork and it should be avoided, but you don't have any problems with it?


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## 2malts4me (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: Advice on cooking for my dog - Q on veggies*

Just a question about feeding steamed veggies. 

I give my dogs carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, and greens beans every once in a while as a treat. They also LOVE the crunchy stalk of romaine lettuce. I don't grind them or pulverize them - just steam everything but the lettuce. 

After reading this thread I'm wondering if this is okay or if I'm causing them some distress that I'm not noticing. They've never exhibited had any issues with it and they get a good quality kibble as their main food. And they really enjoy them in addition to the occasional fresh fruit. 

Thanks and I apologize for getting off the main subject of this thread.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

*Re: Advice on cooking for my dog - Q on veggies*

Generally, as long as it is fed in moderation, fruits and vegetables will do no harm. But no one should be under the impression that they necessarily provide much more than fiber in the diet if they are preparing their own dog food.


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## 2malts4me (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: Advice on cooking for my dog - Q on veggies*

Thank you for your quick reply - I would hate to think I was doing harm to them - and they only get little bits every once in a while.

I considered home cooking for them during the food recalls, but after a consultation with their vet I decided it was too complicated for me to do and be comfortable that I was providng a balanced diet for them. I also felt the vet was making it more complicated to dissuade me from doing it. 

Thanks, again.l



briteday said:


> Generally, as long as it is fed in moderation, fruits and vegetables will do no harm. But no one should be under the impression that they necessarily provide much more than fiber in the diet if they are preparing their own dog food.


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## reita (Dec 29, 2008)

This thread is interesting. I had finally decided to cook for my yorkie because he has turned his tiny nose up at every dog food I've ever offered, whether it is dry kibble or canned food. After reading the recipes offered at another site, I decided to make my first batch. I didn't follow any one recipe but rather chose the ingredients that were easily attainable and not terribly expensive. Then, just to make sure I wasn't doing anything crazy, I posted the "recipe" I'd come up with on a dog forum site. The responses were very negative--which I didn't understand, since I used only ingredients that had been posted in other recipes--and confusing!

So my questions have now become: how does one get calcium into the dog's diet without giving bones? And many of the recipes call for kelp--what is kelp, where could I get it, and what does it provide nutritionally? And at least 2 of the responses said that supplements are "not optional" when feeding homecooked food--if this is true, what is the point of feeding homecooked instead of commercially prepared food? 

I used chicken livers (3-5) and ground turkey, pureed boiled carrots and canned peas (drained), and whole wheat spaghetti. I did add 2-3 tablespoons of milk for moisture. I've seen ALL of these ingredients in other recipes! And my little guy licked his plate clean--a first!!

Can somebody please tell me what is so wrong about this mixture and how to improve it without making me feel like an idiot (again)?? I really want to feed my baby something he will eat willingly (I've actually had to hand-feed him at times to get him to eat) and I'm willing to learn but those other posters made me feel really dumb!


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

reita said:


> This thread is interesting. I had finally decided to cook for my yorkie because he has turned his tiny nose up at every dog food I've ever offered, whether it is dry kibble or canned food. After reading the recipes offered at another site, I decided to make my first batch. I didn't follow any one recipe but rather chose the ingredients that were easily attainable and not terribly expensive. Then, just to make sure I wasn't doing anything crazy, I posted the "recipe" I'd come up with on a dog forum site. The responses were very negative--which I didn't understand, since I used only ingredients that had been posted in other recipes--and confusing!
> 
> So my questions have now become: how does one get calcium into the dog's diet without giving bones? And many of the recipes call for kelp--what is kelp, where could I get it, and what does it provide nutritionally? And at least 2 of the responses said that supplements are "not optional" when feeding homecooked food--if this is true, what is the point of feeding homecooked instead of commercially prepared food?
> 
> ...


You don't need a recipe. Your dog just needs some discipline. Put the kibble down for 15 minutes, doesn't eat it pick it up and offer it at the next scheduled feeding.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

reita said:


> This thread is interesting. I had finally decided to cook for my yorkie because he has turned his tiny nose up at every dog food I've ever offered, whether it is dry kibble or canned food. After reading the recipes offered at another site, I decided to make my first batch. I didn't follow any one recipe but rather chose the ingredients that were easily attainable and not terribly expensive. Then, just to make sure I wasn't doing anything crazy, I posted the "recipe" I'd come up with on a dog forum site. The responses were very negative--which I didn't understand, since I used only ingredients that had been posted in other recipes--and confusing!
> 
> So my questions have now become: how does one get calcium into the dog's diet without giving bones? And many of the recipes call for kelp--what is kelp, where could I get it, and what does it provide nutritionally? And at least 2 of the responses said that supplements are "not optional" when feeding homecooked food--if this is true, what is the point of feeding homecooked instead of commercially prepared food?
> 
> ...


Your recipe sounds good to me! My dog is allergic to wheat so I'd just change that if I made it. With homecooked most of the time a dog can't eat just one recipe, just like Raw their diet and food has to vary, the recipe sounds great as long as you didn't plan to make it his diet for a long time. Home cooked requires A TON of supplements. i've tried both Raw and Home cooked and my dogs liked home cooked the best but the supplements cost more than the actual ingredients did and I was so afraid that I ws forgetting something. It's great you are willing to learn  you have to start somewhere! 
My chihuahua sounds alot like your yorkie, he wouldn't eat any kibble except beneful (horrible quality) but he loved anything i cooked for him. In my experience a raw diet was much more convenient and actually costs the same as a high quality kibble.With raw it is alot easier to make sure your dog is getting everything it needs. Home cooked is great for dogs who won't eat raw, but you have to make sure you get every little vitamin in there and research research research.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

reita said:


> So my questions have now become: how does one get calcium into the dog's diet without giving bones? And many of the recipes call for kelp--what is kelp, where could I get it, and what does it provide nutritionally? And at least 2 of the responses said that supplements are "not optional" when feeding homecooked food--if this is true, what is the point of feeding homecooked instead of commercially prepared food?
> 
> I used chicken livers (3-5) and ground turkey, pureed boiled carrots and canned peas (drained), and whole wheat spaghetti. I did add 2-3 tablespoons of milk for moisture. I've seen ALL of these ingredients in other recipes! And my little guy licked his plate clean--a first!!
> 
> Can somebody please tell me what is so wrong about this mixture and how to improve it without making me feel like an idiot (again)?? I really want to feed my baby something he will eat willingly (I've actually had to hand-feed him at times to get him to eat) and I'm willing to learn but those other posters made me feel really dumb!



Your diet doesn't include calcium to balance the phosphorus. This tells me that you need to do a bit more nutritional research before creating a recipe for your dog. Just because you have seen each of the items you used in other recipes doesn't mean that the way you combined them creates a complete and balanced meal. Also you will find there there are more reputable sites/books than others. I would definitely look for educational background of the person writing the info. And read a lot of info. I researched dog nutrition for probably 6 months before I started assembling my resources and stockpiling ingredients. That took another few months. So it took me almost a year before I got everything in order and felt comfortable to start feeding them myself. On the other hand, there is a wealth of information posted in stickies at the top of the food section of this forum that can significantly cut your research work down to a lot less time. But read all of them, not just one, to glean enough information.

I feed raw and don't use supplements, except for an occasional squirt of salmon oil if the dogs haven't had fish for a while. Since my dogs get a variety of meat / organ species this allows for getting all of the nutrients they need. But that means they routinely get 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs...preferably from various sources. I do not feed fruits/vegt or grains. One dog is sensitive to grains so I just eliminated them, not necessary and my dogs do better without added carbs. Vegt/fruits are also nice but not necessary. 

Maybe someone who uses the kelp supplement can chime in about it's merits.

And I do believe that until you and your dog are completely on board with proper nutritional requirements, a daily canine multivitamin might be a good thing.

I also agree with the post above that encourages you to break the picky eating habit. Before assuming that you need to move to cooking your dog's food I also would buy a good brand of kibble, put it down for 10-15 minutes, and then pick up whatever is not eaten until the next meal. A healthy dog will not starve itself. But that brings up another thought...has your dog seen a vet recently and what does the vet say about the eating problems?


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## Canadian Dog (Nov 3, 2007)

Lots of good info in this thread. Since Rawfeddogs has been banned, I will post the link he offered (I joined) to the Yahoo group that has an amazing amount of info and members *specifically* for feeding your dog a raw diet. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

*Re: Advice on cooking for my dog - Q on veggies*



2malts4me said:


> After reading this thread I'm wondering if this is okay or if I'm causing them some distress that I'm not noticing. They've never exhibited had any issues with it and they get a good quality kibble as their main food. And they really enjoy them in addition to the occasional fresh fruit.


Dogs are in the order Carnivora, but their feeding behaviors are best described as omnivorous (not everyone shares this opinion, but oh well). Their anatomy and physiology also support an omnivore diet (many disagree, but again, oh well). 

Here are the facts though, the nearest living ancestors of our domestic dog are wolves, and the closest living relatives are coyotes. Both wolves and coyotes are opportunistic predators and scavengers. They eat carrion (dead animals), small mammals, birds, amphibians, and the feces of herbivores (horses) that does contain plant material (starch, fiber). Canine predators consume the intestinal tract of large herbivores, which contains plant material. Both coyotes and wolves have been observed eating plants; fruits, berries, persimmons, mushrooms, and melons in the wild (I've seen it myself, my own dog enjoyed an avocado this weekend that fell off my mom's tree). Similarly, our dogs have anatomical and physiological characteristics that permit the digestion and utilization of a widely varied diet from both plant (and metabolize plant sources of nutrients) as well as animal sources. 

Certainly dogs do not digest raw plant sources as well as some animals including humans, and cats digest even less plant-sourced nutrients. Part of the problem with vegetables is that dogs do not have to eat raw plants. Cooking makes much of the nutrients contained in carious plants more bioavilable to the dog. If the plant sources are cooked properly your dog can indeed digest and make use of various plant-based nutrients, besides just providing them a guilt free snack.



Angie's Bella said:


> So you feed pork with no problems? I read that most dogs don't do well with pork and it should be avoided, but you don't have any problems with it?


In general, pork products are not "toxic" to dogs although this could be interpreted several different ways. 

Most of the liver in pet foods is pork because pork liver is not considered editable by people, it contains connective tissue that make it tough to eat. There are parasites embedded within the muscle of swine that may be viable in the dog, however, cooking the pork lowers this risk


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## vedo (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Advice on cooking for my dog - Q on veggies*

I have a large garden and during the summer, Vedo picks his own veggies...he eats the green beans, squashes and sometimes a tomato.


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

*Re: Advice on cooking for my dog - Q on veggies*

I thought about dehydrating chicken and even saw a recipe where ground chicken and cooked sweet potatoes were made into training treats. 

this thread is very informative. Thanks for starting this thread.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

Canadian Dog said:


> Lots of good info in this thread. Since Rawfeddogs has been banned, I will post the link he offered (I joined) to the Yahoo group that has an amazing amount of info and members *specifically* for feeding your dog a raw diet. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/


That list is AMAZING. I highly recommend it!


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## reita (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks to those who responded specifically to my post (and thanks for NOT making me feel like an idiot). I have had dogs all my life so I've already tried to break the picky eating, been thru the entire 15 minute down, take it up routine. And I've been researching for several months the whole cooking idea. I actually tried it once in the past for my other dogs (before I got "I won't eat until I want to" yorkie) but didn't stick with it because it was too much work. 

One more question: do the dogs get calcium and phosphorous from the bones when feeding raw? I don't understand how they get all the vitamins and nutrients when fed only raw meat? 

I will indeed continue to research and experiment with various foods until I find some that he seems to like and that I can rotate.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

reita said:


> One more question: do the dogs get calcium and phosphorous from the bones when feeding raw? I don't understand how they get all the vitamins and nutrients when fed only raw meat?


Yes. The calcium and phosphorus come from the bones, the vitamins come from the organs (liver mainly). A dog couldn't live on a diet of pure muscle meat---the bones and organs are necessary. If you can't use bones, bone meal is available, but I have no experience with balancing a home-cooked diet, so you'd have to research to find out how much bone meal to use. Except for the lack of calcium, your doggy diet seems OK, as long as you use more meat than pasta.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Angie's Bella said:


> I read that the orange veggies are good for their coats. I use to raise birds and we fed the orange veggies to birds because it made their colors much brighter, I don't know if that is the case with dogs or not (my dog is white so I don't see it helping her color). I just want to do what is best for my dog and I added veggies because I read that they not only needed them but that if you add them to their diet it would add 3 years to your dogs life.
> 
> Now, with the raw diet you said that you just feed your dogs chicken, bone and all, you don't have to add anything to that? Maybe I am a wimp, but does it look gross? When I first decided to start fixing my dogs meals myself I considered doing raw but changed my mind when I thought of my dog chewing on a raw bunch of meat. I can't even cut up a chicken without being grossed out, but if you are just grinding the whole thing up that may not be so bad. Right now I give my dog raw bones only when she can be outside so I can't see or here her eating them. (Like I said, I am a wimp)!



There are different 'versions' of the raw diet. Many raw feeders feed the prey model diet which most matches what a dog would eat in the wild, including the stomach lining, bones etc. The BARF diet includes fruits and veggies if I'm not mistaken. 

Kelp is a good source of iodine and anti-oxidants. You can buy a bag of kelp at a good pet store. Where I go, it's expensive but you don't need a lot, maybe 1/2 a teaspoon for a medium dog. Many premade raw diets suggest adding kelp to the food.

You can also use cottage cheese or plain yogurt in your meals. I give my dog beef back ribs with the meat on and she loves them! I give her chicken wings too. They're great for cleaning their teeth and for keeping them occupied as a bonus. 


I agree I'm not a big fan of handling raw meat, especially since I don't eat much myself (cooked meat that is). But you handle it to make the food you're making now so it wouldn't be much of a difference. Although, you'd have to have a freezer to store the meat and bones.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

reita said:


> Thanks to those who responded specifically to my post (and thanks for NOT making me feel like an idiot). I have had dogs all my life so I've already tried to break the picky eating, been thru the entire 15 minute down, take it up routine. And I've been researching for several months the whole cooking idea. I actually tried it once in the past for my other dogs (before I got "I won't eat until I want to" yorkie) but didn't stick with it because it was too much work.
> 
> One more question: do the dogs get calcium and phosphorous from the bones when feeding raw? I don't understand how they get all the vitamins and nutrients when fed only raw meat?
> 
> I will indeed continue to research and experiment with various foods until I find some that he seems to like and that I can rotate.


How did you go about the 15 minute down pick up the bowl training method? 
There should be no treats either or any other type of food while you are doing this. Dogs can go days without eating so don't give up after one day.

I think you should give it one last try but really try this time. Since you've tried in the past with many different foods, it won't be easy. Your dog has beaten you many times, he knows he owns you and that you will give in. So you will have to try that much harder. Just trying to be helpful. What happens if he thinks you are a bad cook after a few weeks?


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

flipgirl said:


> There are different 'versions' of the raw diet. Many raw feeders feed the prey model diet which most matches what a dog would eat in the wild, including the stomach lining, bones etc. The BARF diet includes fruits and veggies if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Kelp is a good source of iodine and anti-oxidants. You can buy a bag of kelp at a good pet store. Where I go, it's expensive but you don't need a lot, maybe 1/2 a teaspoon for a medium dog. Many premade raw diets suggest adding kelp to the food.
> 
> ...


Now is the kelp you are getting at the petstore different from the kelp you can buy at the vitamin store? 

I am going to add cottage cheese to the batch of food that I am fixing for my dog today and I do give her a variety of different raw bones with a little meat still on them (which she really enjoys).

I don't think it is handling the raw meat that is as gross to me as the idea of her slurping on some raw meat. I have considered trying to feed raw and I may try it. But at this point I can't see me going back to commercial kibble. The diiference in my dog since I started cooking for her id night and day. Not only has she gained weight, but she just ascts like she feels better. She's only 7 months so she is an active dog anyways, but she just seems happier and she looks forward to eating. I feed her twice a day at the same time and now she waits for me at her bowl. Before I would put her kibble down and she would just look at it and sometimes take a few nibbles at it, but she never ate more than a bite or two at a time. Now when I feed her she eats every bite and licks her bowl clean. The trueth is, I think she would eat herself sick if I would allow her to.

Let me ask another question, can you mix raw with cooked? Can I still cook as I have been and then mix in some raw when I start to serve it? I may could stomach the idea of raw if it was mixed in.


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## reita (Dec 29, 2008)

Westhighlander said:


> How did you go about the 15 minute down pick up the bowl training method?
> There should be no treats either or any other type of food while you are doing this. Dogs can go days without eating so don't give up after one day.
> 
> I think you should give it one last try but really try this time. Since you've tried in the past with many different foods, it won't be easy. Your dog has beaten you many times, he knows he owns you and that you will give in. So you will have to try that much harder. Just trying to be helpful. What happens if he thinks you are a bad cook after a few weeks?


LOL I've had dogs for about 30 years now, and I've done everything from bottle feed and force feed to save lives to hold them while they're dying. Trust me, I don't give up easily. But the difference in watching my yorkie come to eat the canned food (in a submissive, head down, tail down position, picking at it and walking away, coming back and another bite or two) and to the cooked food (head up, tail wagging, dancing on one paw and then the other, digging in and licking the bowl clean) doesn't encourage me to continue feeding. That is the equivalent of forcing myself to eat spinach and liver at every meal 

I do appreciate your input tho! and I trust that you have good intentions.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I guess you could feed raw and cooked at the same meal. But I guess I'm confused as to why you would want to trouble yourself with taking the time to cook, when it's not necessary. Just skip that step and throw it in the bowl raw. If it bothers you to watch the dog eat the raw I would try putting the dog out on the patio or balcony, in a gated laundry room, whatever and just don't watch. 

And I think I already mentioned in this thread (?) that a couple of my dogs don't do well with bones so I have a butcher grind whole chickens with added organs as one meal of their day. That's REALLY easy to feed. I have one of those ice cream type scoopers for making cookie balls...a couple of scoops per dog and it's done...no touchy and it just looks like they are eating ground hamburger. For my boneless meals (second meal of the day most days around here) to balance the calcium you can either add one Tums to 1/2 pound of meat fed, or 1/2 tsp of finely ground eggshells to 1 pound of meat fed. I do the eggshells since we have chickens and eat the eggs. I save the shells in an egg carton and when the carton is full and the shells are dry I run the shells through the coffee bean grinder until they are powder. Then I put the powder in a ziplock bag and keep it in the plastic shoebox in the fridge that I use to defrost their meat. My method for handling other stuff besides the ground chicken is when I bring any meat home for the dogs I immediately chop it up into meal portions and put it in cheap plastic baggies, one meal to a bag. Then eachnight before bed I take out a baggie for the next day and put it in the plastic shoebox to defrost for the next day. Segregating the dog meat into a container in the fridge also eliminates the possibility of a human fmaily member grabbing something that is not meant to be eaten by humans. 

Phosphorus is mainly in the meat and calcium is mainly in the bones. A dog has to actually ingest the bones (chew, crush, swallow) to get the calcium, just gnawing on a recreational bone won't do it. The balancing act isn't really that big a deal. Most of us start a raw diet with cutting up whole chickens and feeding the whole bird over whatever time it takes. My little dogs only get a few ounces per day so a whole chicken lasted forever in the beginning. And to make it even easier for newbies, whole chickens are about as perfect a calcium : phosphorus ration that naturally exists in most animals that we feed. So unti lyu get acclimated with feeding raw, it's very easy to just buy a whole chicken and cut up pieces to feed until it's gone. Once your dog is managing the meat and bones then you start to add a spoonful or so of the organs that usually come with whole chickens (the ones in the little paper bag in the chicken's cavity). Once you master chicken, bones, and chicken organs then you introduce other species of meat one at a time.

vitamins...in a simplistic form...meat provides most of the B vitamins and iron, bones provide calcium, liver provides vitamins A and D, heart meat is good for taurine, and other organs (kidneys, spleen, tripe...if you can stomach them) are great for trace minerals. Dogs produce their own vitamin C so no need to supplement or worry about that.


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## Angie's Bella (Dec 28, 2008)

OK Briteday, you convienced me. I am going to call my butcher in the morning and see if I can get them to grind me up some chickens and give it a go. Really feeding raw sounds much easier than what I am doing now and I do want what is better for my dog. 

Now is everything that a puppy needs going to be in that whole chicken or will I need to add anything to it? And also, any clue as to how much she should be eating? She weighs about 50lbs now, but she is only 7 months so I am sure that she is going to be doing more growing. I heard that Standards grow until they are about 18 months old (I think she is going to be a giant).

Thanks everyone for your advice. I appreciate it very much!!


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