# Show us the different types in your breed!



## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

I'd really love to see all the different types that occur in the breed(s) you're familiar with! 
I think it would be fun to see all the variations, and I'm always up for learning more about dog breeds. And I don't think I'm the only one on this forum  

What I mean is structural differences, so I don't mean all the different colors in a breed. (unless they are accompanied with differences in body structure ) 

So bring it on! Oh, and don't hold back on pictures.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I did a lot of research into border collies when I got Kabota, so:

All three of these dogs are border collies:










Border collie (not a GSD mix):










Also, border collie (not a golden retriever mix):










and, just for fun, the curly coated border collie:


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

The only big difference in Rat Terriers are size. We've got people breeding outside the standard on both ends, so you can find a Rat that weighs anywhere from 3lbs, to 50lbs. 

I kind of want one of the big ones (called Deckers), but they are so, so hard to come by. But man.


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## Gina_1978 (Jun 3, 2012)

CptJack said:


> The only big difference in Rat Terriers are size. We've got people breeding outside the standard on both ends, so you can find a Rat that weighs anywhere from 3lbs, to 50lbs.
> 
> I kind of want one of the big ones (called Deckers), but they are so, so hard to come by. But man.


My MIL breeds Rat terriers (black and tan),they tend to weigh around 8 to 10lbs full grown and what I think is awesome about them is how agile and nimble they are! They can jump from the floor right up into your arms!! lol.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Gina_1978 said:


> My MIL breeds Rat terriers (black and tan),they tend to weigh around 8 to 10lbs full grown and what I think is awesome about them is how agile and nimble they are! They can jump from the floor right up into your arms!! lol.


I'm not nuts over the miniatures to be honest - I like the utilitarian farm dog/hunting dog aspect. Not that I don't like small dogs; I do, I just prefer my rat terriers on the standard side of the divide. My guy's at the top of the standard and just about perfect for me at 25lbs and 18". I wouldn't MIND a 15lber, but I probably wouldn't go smaller than that. Jack's fast as heck, and you can really see the whippet in the breed background in him, and I DO like his speed and agility, a TON. It's probably my favorite thing about him. But I think those big, used for hunting, Deckers are pretty impressive, too. Just... in a different way.

Also, the dog in that picture I first posted is beautiful, but FAT.

Anyway, for the purposes of comparison and this thread: 

I'd give my right arm to own this dog:
The big







)

The little.









And my guy, in the middle(ish):


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Fun topic!

My breed doesn't have a split and doesn't even have different color options. Pretty easy! And unlike what some people assume, the Welsh springer is not a variety of English springer - they're not any more related to each other than to any other similar flushing spaniel breed. They used to be called Welsh cockers, until the cocker/springer divide was settled based on size and they ended up on the springer side.

Most people don't seem to hunt Welshies anymore, but those that do take pride in a dual dog that can earn hunting and conformation titles. Watson's breeder doesn't breed for hunting ability, but his dam's line is full of dogs from a very famous kennel that breeds dual dogs. I don't have any interest in training him for hunting or field trials, but based on what I've seen I think he would be great at it. 

Most of the other hunting spaniels do have some variation between field and show. The field bred dogs typically have a lighter coat and are sometimes smaller (in the case of English springers, the field bred are around 30-40lbs and the bench are around 55lbs). I was surprised to find out that the American cocker spaniel does actually have a field variety - I thought they were purely bred as pets and show dogs at this point.

Here are some pics:

Field bred English springer spaniel:









Bench bred English springer spaniel:









Field bred English cocker spaniel:









Bench bred English cocker spaniel:


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Field bred English springer spaniel:


I want that dog, too.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Wow, I didn't know Rat terriers varied in size thát much!  Unbelievable. 

Amaryllis, I'm honest when I say that if I encountered some of the dogs you posted, I wouldn't have recognized them as border collies. 



elrohwen said:


> Field bred English cocker spaniel:


I ADORE field bred English cockers, I truly do. I came across a breeder's website once that bred them and I was blown away. Very different dogs than the English cocker I grew up with, a show type.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

There is not really a different type in weims. Some of the field bred dogs are a little smaller and lighter in bone, but most of the dogs you seen in the breed ring can easily go out into the field. There are many duel weimaraners, and that emphasis is growing. 

There is however this


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

OH! I can't believe I forgot. 

Technically this is the same as a Rat - sort of:










American Hairless Terrier. Split off from Rat Terriers, but a throwback to that hairlessness still happens once in a blue moon, in a breeder who doesn't really know what they're doing.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I really love the field bred dogs, but I don't know if I could live with one! My friend has a field ESS and she's a nutcase. I don't mean that in a bad way really, she's just hyper and eternally a puppy, but she does have the happiest personality. Welshies tend to be more chill than the ESS, but with a similar happy go lucky personality, which is one of the specific reasons I chose them. 

I am really liking the English cockers more (I had never really considered them before the past year or so). I like the look of both bench and field, but I can't say I've met any so I can't comment on personality.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Paps vary a bit but it would probably look like splitting hairs to most people. There's not so much 'set' types but you do see trends in other countries and lines.

Shelties vary immensely between american and european style dogs.

Pyr sheps vary tons. Rough faced dogs that look like little terrier mutts to dogs that look like small aussies. Some are corded. Double dewclaws, maybe not. Cropped and docked or natural or some combination. 15 lbs or 30.

The border collie museum is a great site for BC variation.

I will try to post pictures later.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> I really love the field bred dogs, but I don't know if I could live with one! My friend has a field ESS and she's a nutcase. I don't mean that in a bad way really, she's just hyper and eternally a puppy, but she does have the happiest personality. Welshies tend to be more chill than the ESS, but with a similar happy go lucky personality, which is one of the specific reasons I chose them.
> 
> I am really liking the English cockers more (I had never really considered them before the past year or so). I like the look of both bench and field, but I can't say I've met any so I can't comment on personality.



I originally kind of wanted a Brittney, but decided that might be a BIT more than I could handle- and that I liked the look of springers, more. I'm pretty sure I could manage a field bred ESS and be okay with it, or adapt and meet the needs of the dog, but I'm still a little wary and need to spend more time with them. I've got about a decade though (or at least more than 5 years), so who knows. Maybe by then I'll decide I'm too old to handle energy and activity and get a couch potato dog.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

elrohwen said:


> I really love the field bred dogs, but I don't know if I could live with one! My friend has a field ESS and she's a nutcase. I don't mean that in a bad way really, she's just hyper and eternally a puppy, but she does have the happiest personality. Welshies tend to be more chill than the ESS, but with a similar happy go lucky personality, which is one of the specific reasons I chose them.
> 
> I am really liking the English cockers more (I had never really considered them before the past year or so). I like the look of both bench and field, but I can't say I've met any so I can't comment on personality.


The two bench bred Engies that I work with extensively (show and train), and they are night and day. The baby is very soft and she has really gotten it into her head that she is cute and we can't make her do anything because of it lol, so she can be a pain in the ring, she thinks she is a monkey too (trys to walk on her back feet), we are starting to do the ignore her antics thing and it seems to be working (she is starting to get that the ring is fun and working well gets rewarded). The older girl can be a total brat at times, hovering around for food on the group, pulling, etc. You can do just about anything to her and it wouldn't phase her. They are great dogs though, very sweet, intelligent, can be devious though. 

The two ESS I show are the same way. One got her brain installed just recently the other is on back order lol.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I originally kind of wanted a Brittney, but decided that might be a BIT more than I could handle- and that I liked the look of springers, more. I'm pretty sure I could manage a field bred ESS and be okay with it, or adapt and meet the needs of the dog, but I'm still a little wary and need to spend more time with them. I've got about a decade though (or at least more than 5 years), so who knows. Maybe by then I'll decide I'm too old to handle energy and activity and get a couch potato dog.


I went through the exact same thing with Brittanies. DH grew up with one and a very good friend of mine had one when we were growing up - both were awesome laid back dogs. The more I researched though, the more I realized that's probably not the norm. I want my hunting breed dog to have some instinct, but I don't want something that needs 5 hours of running per day. I also realized I prefer the springer look to the britt. A friend of a friend recommended Welshies and I never looked back.

I've attended puppy class through obedience 2 with a brittany pup and she's the cutest. We call her and Watson "the cousins", but they really are such different types with her being so light boned and Watson so stocky. She's sweet in class, but her owners claim she is non-stop at home to the point of driving them a little nuts. 

I should add that my friend with the fieldy ESS doesn't spend hours a day exercising her either. I'm sure she could handle it, but she's not outrageous in the house without it. She's just always a bit in your face and flighty, "Hi! How are you! What are we doing! What's over there! I'm going to check it out!"


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> The two bench bred Engies that I work with extensively (show and train), and they are night and day. The baby is very soft and she has really gotten it into her head that she is cute and we can't make her do anything because of it lol, so she can be a pain in the ring, she thinks she is a monkey too (trys to walk on her back feet), we are starting to do the ignore her antics thing and it seems to be working (she is starting to get that the ring is fun and working well gets rewarded). The older girl can be a total brat at times, hovering around for food on the group, pulling, etc. You can do just about anything to her and it wouldn't phase her. They are great dogs though, very sweet, intelligent, can be devious though.
> 
> The two ESS I show are the same way. One got her brain installed just recently the other is on back order lol.


I have read about experiences exactly like yours. There's an article on the interwebz by a former bench breeder who owns fieldies now and she said they're just so much smarter and more "doggy", if that makes sense, than the bench bred.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I've never been a big spaniel fan (quick, cover my dogs' ears!) but I adore the one field cocker I know. Awesome awesome dog. I kind of secretly love them.

I actually see Welshies more often than ESS. The ones here are SO laid back though! Very sweet gentle dogs. I like them more than ESS though.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> I actually see Welshies more often than ESS. The ones here are SO laid back though! Very sweet gentle dogs. I like them more than ESS though.


Really? That's awesome. I've never seen a Welshie outside of breeders' dogs, though my co-worker swears his neighbors have a pair (I showed him pics of every red and white spanielly type dog to make sure that's what they were, haha).

From what I've seen, the males seem to be more laid back than the females. Watson is in his nutty teenager phase, but I see glimmers of a super laid back adult dog in him.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

All the dogs shown below are dogs that I would consider correct and all good representatives of the breed.

The Conformation bred Aussie (normally(in general) competing almost exclusively in conformation and after attaining a Championship they are often campaigned for rankings after that)








The bitch above is an AKC Champion and AKC Grand Champion and nationally ranked in Conformation.


The Versatility bred Aussie (normally competing in Herding and Conformation, getting Championships but not normally campaigned for ranking. Instead they normally(in general) go on to other performance titles)








The dog above is a Conformation Champion and a Working Trial Champion.


The Working bred Aussie (normally(in general) competing in Herding and often trialed to compete for ranking in the Herding/Stockdog merit awards)








Wish I could find a higher quality stacked shot of this guy, a nationally ranked Stock dog and Working Trial Champion.

The Pet bred/bred for money Aussie>
Looks like any of the above, there is no set look for the random bred.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Golden retrievers have 2 major splits: English/American and field/show.

English v. American:










Field goldens tend to be lankier, darker and have a lot less coat:










Show goldens have a huge amount of coat and are stockier:


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I love that field bred Golden! What a sweet face.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

elrohwen said:


> Really? That's awesome. I've never seen a Welshie outside of breeders' dogs, though my co-worker swears his neighbors have a pair (I showed him pics of every red and white spanielly type dog to make sure that's what they were, haha).
> 
> From what I've seen, the males seem to be more laid back than the females. Watson is in his nutty teenager phase, but I see glimmers of a super laid back adult dog in him.


It is very weird I see them so often, and never at 'dog stuff', which would make more sense. I've seen several at parks around here. Must be a breeder around here. I haven't ever seen an ESS at a park but I have had one in a class before.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> It is very weird I see them so often, and never at 'dog stuff', which would make more sense. I've seen several at parks around here. Must be a breeder around here. I haven't ever seen an ESS at a park but I have had one in a class before.


A quick search of the breeders in your part of the country only brought up 3 in Kansas, none in Oklahoma, but it's possible there's one near you who just isn't on the breed club website.

I see a lot of Vizslas around here for some reason and I had never seen one in my life before. The two adults I saw were intact males, so I wonder if there are a couple breeders.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

The Coton de Tulear can come in three colors (tan/white, black/white, and all white--this is the one the judges prefer) and they can come in two sizes small and tall. Most of the time their color will vanish as they get older, but sometimes they'll remain. Luke has some tan spots on him.

Here's the tall Coton from Wiki, he's also b/w: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maya_Bow.jpg
Here's the tan/white variety: http://lexycoton.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/20111214-135643.jpg
Here's the all white and show dog looking Coton: http://www.breederinfocenter.com/images2/20060911164156_085801_1.jpg

We give Luke the puppy cut.


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

ADBA APBT:










UKC APBT:










AKC Amstaff:











AmBullies..

Pocket:










Standard:










Classic:










XL:










Extreme:


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

American Bred:








European Bred:








Aside from the fact in American it is still legal to crop, European Dane tend to be more mastiffy with a denser bone structure and heavier lip/ear set


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Wow, that's quite a difference in the Danes. The American dog looks almost racy, while the European bred looks much more solid and typically mastiff-like.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

elrohwen said:


> Wow, that's quite a difference in the Danes. The American dog looks almost racy, while the European bred looks much more solid and typically mastiff-like.



Well I would have to wonder how old the american bred one was compared to the European (even though yes those ones are stockier in general). The Am-bred looks young.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Wow, that's quite a difference in the Danes. The American dog looks almost racy, while the European bred looks much more solid and typically mastiff-like.


Just goes to show how much one's perspective comes into place when evaluating Standards, because if you read the American and European Breed Standards they appear almost identical... Yet the interpretations of the standard are so vastly different...


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

The white Swiss shepherd has several different looks. There's difference in leg length (leggy versus low stationed), coat type and head type. I've searched and can't find pictures that clearly illustrate the difference in head type though... Basically, you've got dogs with a broader muzzle and skull, and dogs with a narrow muzzle and skull, a bit foxy looking. And anything in between.  

About the coat types, they come in stock and longstock. Doesn't sound like much in words, but it means a world of difference. All of the below are correct and used as stud dogs. 














































There are strains that are heavy boned and have a lot of coat. They remind me of Samoyeds. Then there are the smallish light boned dogs. Both don't have my personal preference. 

My previous white Swiss shepherd Charlie's grandmother, born in 1993. You rarely see them like this anymore around here. The dogs with longer hair are a lot more popular nowadays. 
















I think she was gorgeous. 

Oh, and just for fun, backyard bred Mike. Super leggy, pink nose, way too tall, hahahah  This is what an out of standard ****** looks like.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Avie, I had a white shepherd in my obedience class that reminds me of Mike. Super tall, long foxy face, very slim build. I was actually wondering whether he was in or out of standard, so I'm glad you posted this! I think Charlie's grandmother is beautiful.


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## collierescue13 (Feb 20, 2013)

Avie said:


> The white Swiss shepherd has several different looks. There's difference in leg length (leggy versus low stationed), coat type and head type. I've searched and can't find pictures that clearly illustrate the difference in head type though... Basically, you've got dogs with a broader muzzle and skull, and dogs with a narrow muzzle and skull, a bit foxy looking. And anything in between.
> 
> About the coat types, they come in stock and longstock. Doesn't sound like much in words, but it means a world of difference. All of the below are correct and used as stud dogs.
> 
> ...


They are some cool looking dogs.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I think this one's my favorite.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Well I would have to wonder how old the american bred one was compared to the European (even though yes those ones are stockier in general). The Am-bred looks young.


Here is an American closer to the age of the European:


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Here is a Dane, that I really liked when he was being campaigned.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I think this one's my favorite.


Of the longstocks, that's the type I like best too. Though I'd love to own a ****** one day (if it ever came to that again) with the looks and temperament of Charlie's line, simple stockhair, beautiful head. Unfortunately that's going to be near impossible because his breeder stopped a couple years ago...


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Here is a Dane, that I really liked when he was being campaigned.


Drool!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sclevenger (Nov 11, 2012)

I really love this thread seeing all the variations in the breeds!


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

American show lines - 



















Show/Performance/Working bred American show line x German show line cross - 

(first picture taken from owner's website: http://www.flightoffancyfarm.com/sumo.htm)


















Pet bred American show line x German show line cross - 



















East German (DDR) x Czech working line -

















West German working line - 


















Unfortunately, I have no German show line or show x working line examples, but I know Xeph has all that and more.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> The Coton de Tulear can come in three colors (tan/white, black/white, and all white--this is the one the judges prefer) and they can come in two sizes small and tall. Most of the time their color will vanish as they get older, but sometimes they'll remain. Luke has some tan spots on him.
> 
> Here's the tall Coton from Wiki, he's also b/w: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maya_Bow.jpg
> Here's the tan/white variety: http://lexycoton.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/20111214-135643.jpg
> ...


I thought cotons only came in all white, and didn't know they came in two sizes!


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

With and without ears and tails:

then there is my Dycen No tail but with ears: Can't seem to find the picture I was looking for hmmmmm??? I found one that was taken this past spring/summer:


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Equinox, that pic of the sable boy gets me every time! I think I know what it is now (without using any of the right terminology)... His head is slightly broader and more blocky than all of the others', which have sharper faces. I think I just like those proportions more in general. Otherwise, I have no clue! There is SOMETHING about him, and it's not the color, that catches my eye. All other GSDs sort of look the same to me.

And Tainted, love your presentation of the pits! Though I cannot tell the difference between extreme and standard... Both look to have the same kind of stoutness to me.

Elrohwen, I never liked the cocker look (the forehead thing) but that field one is GORGEOUS.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Canyx said:


> Equinox, that pic of the sable boy gets me every time! I think I know what it is now (without using any of the right terminology)... His head is slightly broader and more blocky than all of the others', which have sharper faces. I think I just like those proportions more in general. Otherwise, I have no clue! There is SOMETHING about him, and it's not the color, that catches my eye. All other GSDs sort of look the same to me.


That makes sense and you'd be absolutely correct in your observation. The DDR and Czech dogs have noticeably broader and blockier builds, to the point where it has become a part of their appeal for *some*. Obviously not the primary attraction for all those who favor the lines, but some consider them hallmark traits of the DDR and Czech types (dark sable coat, substantial build, broad head). I find the blockiness in particular can be more specifically attributed to the DDR lines. 

The same dog:










His DDR sire, from the breeder webpage and the pedigreedatabase:

















Another example of a German Shepherd from DDR lines, Xita vom Ludwigseck currently owned by Blackthorn Kennels (http://blackthornkennel.com):


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

Canyx said:


> And Tainted, love your presentation of the pits! Though I cannot tell the difference between extreme and standard... Both look to have the same kind of stoutness to me.


Can you see a difference now?

(Another extreme)











The first extreme I posted is one of the most decent looking ones I came across. I personally think the extreme class should be done away with. Most I've seen are conformational nightmares.. Bowed out and toed out fronts, rears higher than their heads, ect. I feel horribly for them. But, that's a whole 'nother discussion entirely!


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## mashlee08 (Feb 24, 2012)

The belgian Tervuren









The Belgian Groenendael









The Belgian Malinois









The Belgian Lakenois









The Tervuren is Indie, but the rest I found from google. Then you have the European lines and the american lines that look different again so, there is lots of variation.


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

one is an FCI registered German Spitz one is an AKC registered "pet quality" Pomeranian








AKC Conformation Pomeranians


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

So, I have a question for *Tainted.* or anyone else that's able to answer.

Is this dog an AmBully? This was a dog owned by my neighbors some years ago and he is seriously the sweetest dog I've ever met.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Oh I guess I forgot the obvious one. Papillon and phalene. Same breed (Continental Toy Spaniel in much of the world), different ears. Phalenes were the original variety of the breed but are not as common as the papillon variety nowadays. They are judged in the same ring in the AKC.

Papillon:










Phalene:


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

HollowHeaven said:


> So, I have a question for *Tainted.* or anyone else that's able to answer.
> 
> Is this dog an AmBully? This was a dog owned by my neighbors some years ago and he is seriously the sweetest dog I've ever met.



Did he have a pedigree, and do you happen to know his bloodlines by chance? Going off of looks alone, I'd say he leans more towards the look of a bully.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks Tainted! The extreme does look way too exaggerated, though some of the standard Am Staffs and even the normals are too bulky for my tastes. Your dogs are STUNNING though.

And Equinox, DDR shepherds and (normal?) GSDs are considered two separate breeds, or two separate lines in the same breed? I guess I could ask the same about the Groenendal, Terv, and Malinois... Same breed and different variations or considered separate breeds?


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Canyx said:


> And Equinox, DDR shepherds and (normal?) GSDs are considered two separate breeds, or two separate lines in the same breed?


The latter (variation/line within the breed). They are as much a part of the breed as my West German working line or my neighbor's American x German show line is.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

This is not 'my breed' but they have an interesting variety. Pyrenean Shepherds:


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

At what point does a variation become a separate breed, if that even happens? Or, what is the difference between the two terms? I am thinking of the Belgian shepherds; I imagine the reason they are still one breed is... what, their temperaments are still 'the same'? (though I've heard mals are the most drivey of the four). But the looks are so consistently different, and they already have their own names (laekenois and malinois, as opposed to curly coated belgian and short coated belgian; phalene and papillon, as opposed to papillon and drop-eared papillon or something).


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Here's the shelties I was talking about. 

European Champion shelties:




























'American'



















Trey's daddy


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Canyx said:


> At what point does a variation become a separate breed, if that even happens? Or, what is the difference between the two terms? I am thinking of the Belgian shepherds; I imagine the reason they are still one breed is... what, their temperaments are still 'the same'? (though I've heard mals are the most drivey of the four). But the looks are so consistently different, and they already have their own names (laekenois and malinois, as opposed to curly coated belgian and short coated belgian; phalene and papillon, as opposed to papillon and drop-eared papillon or something).


Papillons and phalenes are interbred and show up in the same litters/lines.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

You can get longhairs in litters of shorthaired weims, both parents need the gene I think (there is a test for it in fact). In most other countries they are recognized as a weimaraner and can show with the shorthairs, but not in the US (not even recognized, and a fault in our standard), they used to be able to be shown in AKC. I personally love them, know many others that do, really hope fanciers pursue separate registration.

The four Belgians, are classified as separate breeds in AKC, not sure about other orgs.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

CptJack said:


> I kind of want one of the big ones (called Deckers), but they are so, so hard to come by. But man.
> [/IMG]


You shoulda told me...... I had a line on one you probably could have had for FREE... Just the cost of shipping. He was all tested too....

He is hunting squirrels now though...


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

Here's my sheltie, oversized at 40 lbs and light on coat:










And a show sheltie that is related to my sheltie:










And my other sheltie who's breeder focuses on agility, still oversized at 28 lbs:


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## AlbertaLab (Feb 13, 2013)

A bench bred (english) labrador:



My two who are field (american) labradors:


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> You can get longhairs in litters of shorthaired weims, both parents need the gene I think (there is a test for it in fact). In most other countries they are recognized as a weimaraner and can show with the shorthairs, but not in the US (not even recognized, and a fault in our standard), they used to be able to be shown in AKC. I personally love them, know many others that do, really hope fanciers pursue separate registration.
> 
> The four Belgians, are classified as separate breeds in AKC, not sure about other orgs.


Belgians are kind of screwed the way the AKC accepted them. They're the same breed in FCI, different varieties. Tervs can be born to mals, etc. It's caused a lot of issues from talking to my friends with belgians.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Laurelin said:


> Belgians are kind of screwed the way the AKC accepted them. They're the same breed in FCI, different varieties. Tervs can be born to mals, etc. It's caused a lot of issues from talking to my friends with belgians.


Laur do you know whether it's true or not what I heard about Belgians in AKC, that you can do a breed cross as long as you back cross again for three generations? Seems like a real PITA and no one would probably do that.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I have no idea, honestly. I just know most the belgian people I know complain about the way the breed is registered in the AKC.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Tainted said:


> Did he have a pedigree, and do you happen to know his bloodlines by chance? Going off of looks alone, I'd say he leans more towards the look of a bully.


Nope. I don't know anything about him since they weren't neighbors I really spoke to. I just gave him a doghouse, made sure he had water and put medicine on those awful ears of his.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

I will further the border collie on

dont know how this was is bred









working-bearded









australian show type









american show type









UK show type









various other working types



























sport type


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

Canyx said:


> Thanks Tainted! The extreme does look way too exaggerated, though some of the standard Am Staffs and even the normals are too bulky for my tastes. Your dogs are STUNNING though.


Thank you!



HollowHeaven said:


> Nope. I don't know anything about him since they weren't neighbors I really spoke to. I just gave him a doghouse, made sure he had water and put medicine on those awful ears of his.


Poor boy. What did his ears need medicine for?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Tainted said:


> Poor boy. What did his ears need medicine for?


Not sure if you can see it in the video, but they were a horrible crop job. And they were covered in flies and scabs. 
I ran into him last summer and they looked like they were in good shape, so they must've just done that.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Blues Rule, Reds Drool....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)




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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I'll add one to yours Johnny


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## Tainted (Jan 23, 2012)

HollowHeaven said:


> Not sure if you can see it in the video, but they were a horrible crop job. And they were covered in flies and scabs.
> I ran into him last summer and they looked like they were in good shape, so they must've just done that.


Well, I did notice the length, which is definitely a bit short for my liking. I guess I didn't look hard enough to see scabs. Good on ya for trying to help him out.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Side note... I MAY take the first dog in my second post out on the show circuit.... I think I can tear it up with him....


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Side note... I MAY take the first dog in my second post out on the show circuit.... I think I can tear it up with him....


He is really nice JB.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

I tried to find some on Tibetan Spaniels... but besides colors, I couldn't really find much in the way of structure. Unless I'm wrong - I'm not extremely knowledgeable on them besides the genetics and traits, since Syd is a mix. If someone could find anything though - please do!


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

does newfoundland dog and landseer count as variations? the landseer drools less, is white and usually weighs 10-20 pounds less. Now I don't know if CKC or AKC has different standards for weight or not, I just know the origins. 

brown and black Newfie, black being much more common....actually I think I've only ever seen 1 brown one in my life.









Landseer


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Flaming said:


> does newfoundland dog and landseer count as variations? the landseer drools less, is white and usually weighs 10-20 pounds less. Now I don't know if CKC or AKC has different standards for weight or not, I just know the origins.
> 
> brown and black Newfie, black being much more common....actually I think I've only ever seen 1 brown one in my life.
> 
> ...


Landseers are apart of the AKC Newfie standard. Saw quite a few of them showing at the Newfie specialty that was combined with the last All breed show I was at. Saw more of them than the browns.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> He is really nice JB.


I think so too.... He could probably be living at my house right now.... But we are all dogged up. 

He is young and ready.... I could take him out and if I pick my shows, I can finish him in a few weekends. Then let him grow up.... But I am not into campaigning a dog that is not mine like I did with Merlin.... Next dog I campaign like that, will be after Merlin is gone..


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

West German show line bitch









West German working line male (12 months)









West German/American show x working line cross









American show line bitch (there is a LOT of variation within American show lines)


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I think so too.... He could probably be living at my house right now.... But we are all dogged up.
> 
> He is young and ready.... I could take him out and if I pick my shows, I can finish him in a few weekends. Then let him grow up.... But I am not into campaigning a dog that is not mine like I did with Merlin.... Next dog I campaign like that, will be after Merlin is gone..


Yeah, just want to say that the girl I posted was young in that photo, no more than 10 months old at the time, she is probably close to 3-4 now.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

I always like to post this image American Pit Bull Terrier (UKC/ADBA) American Staffordshire Terrier(AKC) :


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Landseers are apart of the AKC Newfie standard. Saw quite a few of them showing at the Newfie specialty that was combined with the last All breed show I was at. Saw more of them than the browns.


yeah I think the browns are harder to come by.
I've really only been around the working/rescue Newfies growing up so I don't know much about showing them, though I do know the standard favors the smaller newfies. Standard 120-160 pounds, but 200+ pound newfies are not that unheard of on the island, fairly common actually with the working and rescue newfies


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

from what I understand, landseer is a different breed outside of akc/ckc as opposed to just a black and white newfie as most of us know them.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Miss Bugs said:


> from what I understand, landseer is a different breed outside of akc/ckc as opposed to just a black and white newfie as most of us know them.


IDK, but landseer is in the newfie standard

http://www.akc.org/breeds/newfoundland/breed_standard.cfm


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Miss Bugs said:


> from what I understand, landseer is a different breed outside of akc/ckc as opposed to just a black and white newfie as most of us know them.


which would be weird because you can get landseer puppies from 2 black newfies and vice versa on occasion. And they were named after a person who first started breeding them from newfies


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## RedGermanPinscher (Jun 22, 2012)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> I tried to find some on Tibetan Spaniels... but besides colors, I couldn't really find much in the way of structure. Unless I'm wrong - I'm not extremely knowledgeable on them besides the genetics and traits, since Syd is a mix. If someone could find anything though - please do!



You beat me to it.... LOL!!! Quite Honestly I think the only real difference I have found (so far) is some have a slightly longer muzzle (less upturn) than others and some have a bit more coat (but that could just be a difference in age and/or gender)....


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

From what I understand of it, in the FCI you've got the Newfoundland that comes in black, brown or black & white, and you've the Landseer ECT (European Continental Type). Outside of FCI you only have the Newfoundland that comes in black, brown, grey(?), and the black & white that's called 'landseer'. 









Newfoundlander above, Landseer ECT below. 









From what I've been told at dog shows: Landseer ECTs are taller, leggier, have a less heavy head and don't have such a profuse coat. 

A really leggy Landseer ECT:


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## Kayla_Nicole (Dec 19, 2012)

There are two coat varieties for Wheatens: 

Irish coat - thinner and silkier









American coat









Alannah has some of both. Her father's father is fully Irish coated. Her mother is American coated. So we have our little wavy-haired girl. Her coat looks straighter in my signature photo because she had just been groomed. It curls back up within a couple of hours.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Avie said:


> From what I understand of it, in the FCI you've got the Newfoundland that comes in black, brown or black & white, and you've the Landseer ECT (European Continental Type). Outside of FCI you only have the Newfoundland that comes in black, brown, grey(?), and the black & white that's called 'landseer'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I got this quote of the wiki but it sounds about right 



> The American Kennel Club (AKC) standard colors of the Newfoundland dogs are: black, brown, gray, and Landseer (white dog with black markings) Other colors are not rare, and not recommended because of breeding double recessive genes; The Kennel Club (KC) permits only black, brown, and landseer; the Canadian Kennel Club (CKC) permits only black and landseer. Contrary to popular belief The Landseer is named after the artist Sir Edwin Henry Landseer, who featured them in many of his paintings. AKC, CKC, and KC all treat Landseer as part of the breed. Fédération Cynologique Internationale (FCI) consider the ECT Landseer to be a separate breed. It is a taller, more narrow white dog with black markings not bred with a Newfoundland.[5]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_(dog)

So landseer refers to a few different things


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I really like that pic of the tall leggy ECT Landseer. It doesn't really look like a Newf to me because of the head, but it looks like a beautiful and athletic dog. I wish we had them here.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Flaming said:


> I got this quote of the wiki but it sounds about right


Thanks for the info, it cleared some things up for me too.



elrohwen said:


> I really like that pic of the tall leggy ECT Landseer. It doesn't really look like a Newf to me because of the head, but it looks like a beautiful and athletic dog. I wish we had them here.


Yeah, I definitely like the Landseer better than the Newfoundlander. The Landseer ECT is a 'sportier' dog, more active and less mellow.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

RedGermanPinscher said:


> You beat me to it.... LOL!!! Quite Honestly I think the only real difference I have found (so far) is some have a slightly longer muzzle (less upturn) than others and some have a bit more coat (but that could just be a difference in age and/or gender)....


That would explain why Sydney doesn't even have a hint of a pushed in muzzle. Or it's from whatever other breed she has in her (no idea), haha. But she has a lot of other traits from the Tibbie!


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

Keep in mind there are variations within all types, but IMO this is a pretty good example of the three basic types of Dobes:

American Conformation / AKC Performance Sport Lines:









European Show Lines:









Working Lines:









*Fun Fact:* Two of the three dogs above have SchH1 / IPO1 titles. 

*My own observations: *
- American show line Dobermans are generally not as spindly/weak/wispy as people think they are. 
- Working lines are generally not large and coarse - many are actually smaller and lighter than the American show lines.
- People think European show lines are the same as working lines. Generally, they are not. Note that I'm not tying "working" with "European" - there are plenty of nice working breeders in the States.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Well, Eskies are only a breed in NA, but they can be registered as German Spitz by the FCI/various European kennel clubs so here's some white German Spitz vs Eskies:

The outside dogs are poms, the middle is a Kleinspitz (small German Spitz)









Mittelspitz ("Middle" spitz):

















Eskies: 

















As far as I'm aware, the standards are pretty much identical except for colour. German Spitz seem to have a fuller coat and a more serious face with slightly smaller ears set slightly further back, but that could just be the particular pictures I chose.

Personally, I would luuuuurve a parti or wolf-sable GS.... someday.....


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

sizzledog said:


> European Show Lines:


Is this really an example of your typical Euro show line? What a difference! Overall I do prefer stockier and more substantial dogs, but here I'll have to make an exception. Doberman Pinschers like Kaylee are much, much closer to my ideal.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Equinox said:


> Is this really an example of your typical Euro show line? What a difference! Overall I do prefer stockier and more substantial dogs, but here I'll have to make an exception. Doberman Pinschers like Kaylee are much, much closer to my ideal.


Not a dog from western Europe, that's for sure. (illegal to crop&dock) 

This is what they look like at the Amsterdam Winnershow (biggest annual show in the Netherlands), these pics are at the 2011 Winnershow.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Erf....no thank you. To me they look like bad examples of Hounds


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Erf....no thank you. They look like bad examples of Hounds


That's because they're not hounds, obviously. 

To each their own. I love the uncropped undocked look. My neighbor disagrees, my father agrees, a friend of mine disagrees, another friend of mine agrees... Everyone has their own idea of what looks good, and I think a head like this one looks stunning. 









Then again, cropping has been illegal since 1996, so it's rare to see a cropped dog and when you do, those upstanding tatters of skin look weird and out of place. I suppose it's mainly a matter of what you're used to.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Personally, I loooove the uncropped look. I like floppy earred dogs more in general, but I also think cropped ears look nice in pictures but funny in person for some reason.

Docked I can go either way - I've always owned docked dogs (schnauzers, welshie, plus DH had a brittany and a corgi) so it's normal for me. I did kind of want an undocked Welshie (some breeders are choosing not to do it now) but it wasn't a big deal either way. I do like the docked look on the Dobie.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Personally, I loooove the uncropped look. I like floppy earred dogs more in general, but I also think cropped ears look nice in pictures but funny in person for some reason.
> .


Yeah, agreed. I mean my guys are not floppy eared, but cropped ears (especially on dobes) look LUDICROUS to me in person. I think it's because they are SO tall and tapered so far (again with dobes), that it just - Yeah, no. Not my favorite look. Impressive pictures, but in reality they just don't do it for me at all. I actually find the uncropped dobes a LOT more impressive and powerful looking, but then, again, I'm distracted by the cropped ears and not in a 'you look intimidating' way - they make them look silly -to me-.

I also don't care much one way or the other about docking.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> Yeah, agreed. I mean my guys are not floppy eared, but cropped ears (especially on dobes) look LUDICROUS to me in person. I think it's because they are SO tall and tapered so far (again with dobes), that it just - Yeah, no. Not my favorite look. Impressive pictures, but in reality they just don't do it for me at all. I also don't care much one way or the other about docking.


There was a beautiful dobe in my last obedience class with cropped ears. From a distance they looked great, but I couldn't get past how they kind of flapped around when he swiveled his ears and went from flat to pricked. I'm with you that I think it's how tall and tapered they are that looks strange to me. I haven't spent much time around any dobes, so I'm sure if I was around them all the time I wouldn't find it strange.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

No, not western Europe. "Europe" - as in what people think of when they want a "real" Doberman. (tongue in cheek there...)  

IMO the western European dobes look a lot more like American show lines... Australian Dobermans also look like American show lines, since most have American dogs in their background anyway. 

Put cropped ears and docked tails on the UK dobes, and they will look surprisingly similar to the dobes across the pond.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

Equinox said:


> Is this really an example of your typical Euro show line? What a difference! Overall I do prefer stockier and more substantial dogs, but here I'll have to make an exception. Doberman Pinschers like Kaylee are much, much closer to my ideal.


That's a very popular European sire... so yes. 

Substantial doesn't have to mean coarse, but I think a lot of people think it does. Kaylee is 100% American show lines, and while she is a smaller bitch at only 24.5" and 63ish lbs, she's still quite substantial...









Rocket is 100% American show lines too... I wouldn't call him insubstantial:









Jayne is Rocket's half brother, also 100% American show lines. 









My 1/3 working lines Dobe... one of the smallest dobes I've ever owned - in height, bone, and weight:









Here's a dobe bitch from working lines - again - small, lighter boned... and yes, she is full grown.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Avie said:


> Then again, cropping has been illegal since 1996, so it's rare to see a cropped dog and when you do, those upstanding tatters of skin look weird and out of place. I suppose it's mainly a matter of what you're used to.


You must be seeing some God-awful crop jobs, because I've never seen a dobe with tattered-looking ears. I've seen many dobes at shows, and I love the look of a good crop. Dobes look much more intimidating and regal to me with upright ears -- floppy-eared ones also look more like hounds to me, and I'm not a big fan of that look.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

I really hope this thread doesn't turn into a cropping/docking debate.

Yes, in some countries it's banned. I live in America, and in America we are still allowed to do it... so it's understandable that American Doberman owners have cropped/docked dogs. I've also talked to Dobe breeders in the UK who have said they _hate_ that they can't crop/dock anymore. 

The only bad crops I see are on the rescue dogs I've fostered.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Crantastic said:


> You must be seeing some God-awful crop jobs, because I've never seen a dobe with tattered-looking ears. I've seen many dobes at shows, and I love the look of a good crop. Dobes look much more intimidating and regal to me with upright ears -- floppy-eared ones also look more like hounds to me, and I'm not a big fan of that look.


Oh, I'm pretty sure the crops are awful. They look nothing like the ears on the dogs posted here. 
Regardless, cropped ears look like tattered ears to me. Shredded, torn. Of course, that's just a personal opinion.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Xeph said:


> Erf....no thank you. To me they look like bad examples of Hounds


Wholeheartedly agreed.



Avie said:


> That's because they're not hounds, obviously.


Yes, but the ears and coat make me think "hound" whereas the structure/build screams otherwise. Slap that together and I can't get past the appearance of a poorly bred hound LOL



Avie said:


>


Gorgeous dog! Wouldn't be what I'd want if I got a Doberman Pinscher, though. I absolutely see the appeal, and there are breeds where I prefer the uncropped/undocked look. It's just that the Doberman is not one of them.



sizzledog said:


> That's a very popular European sire... so yes.
> 
> Substantial doesn't have to mean coarse, but I think a lot of people think it does.


Yes, coarse is what I meant. I couldn't think of that exact word then and mistakenly use the two interchangeably - need to fix that.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Avie said:


> Oh, I'm pretty sure the crops are awful. They look nothing like the ears on the dogs posted here.
> Regardless, cropped ears look like tattered ears to me. Shredded, torn. Of course, that's just a personal opinion.


You're not alone - I also prefer the look of uncropped dobes. I think it makes them look softer, gentler.... which might be why a lot of people who like Dobes _don't_ like the uncropped ears.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

gingerkid said:


> You're not alone - I also prefer the look of uncropped dobes. I think it makes them look softer, gentler.... which might be why a lot of people who like Dobes _don't_ like the uncropped ears.


I think that seems possible. Though for me it really is the WAY they're cropped. It looks impressive and regal IF THEY DON"T MOVE. As soon as those too thin, too soft, too narrow at the top cropped dobes (for me, it is a decent crop job for the breed) MOVES it's ears (or the wind blows), I get the worst case of the giggles, ever. I am pretty sure I'm broken, but it just looks silly to me.


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## sizzledog (Nov 23, 2008)

gingerkid said:


> You're not alone - I also prefer the look of uncropped dobes. I think it makes them look softer, gentler.... which might be why a lot of people who like Dobes _don't_ like the uncropped ears.


I had a foster dog with gorgeous natural ears... if cropping rights are ever taken away from me, I'd be very happy if I end up with natural eared dogs like her:

gIMG_2894 by sizzzle_dog, on Flickr


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

CptJack said:


> I think that seems possible. Though for me it really is the WAY they're cropped. It looks impressive and regal IF THEY DON"T MOVE. As soon as those too thin, too soft, too narrow at the top cropped dobes (for me, it is a decent crop job for the breed) MOVES it's ears (or the wind blows), I get the worst case of the giggles, ever. I am pretty sure I'm broken, but it just looks silly to me.


I have to admit, I don't think I've ever met a cropped Dobe in real life - only ever seen pictures or seen them in movies. The flailing ears though, would be pretty funny. Like when GSD- or ACD-crosses have over-big ears that just don't... quite...stand up properly. lol.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I think that seems possible. Though for me it really is the WAY they're cropped. It looks impressive and regal IF THEY DON"T MOVE. As soon as those too thin, too soft, too narrow at the top cropped dobes (for me, it is a decent crop job for the breed) MOVES it's ears (or the wind blows), I get the worst case of the giggles, ever. I am pretty sure I'm broken, but it just looks silly to me.


Yes! This is exactly my issue with them. The gorgeous dobe in my obedience class just looked so silly when he was flicking his ears back and forth and I had to chuckle at him. It was even funnier that he was flicking his ears so much because he was nervous of a toy chicken wearing a santa hat.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Slap that together and I can't get past the appearance of a poorly bred hound LOL


Exactly. That red Dobe, while it has a beautiful head, just doesn't say Doberman to me. It says "overgrown Dachshund". The breed is supposed to look regal and intimidating, and I feel breed type is lost with floppy ears, that's all


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

Just so it's said... A cropped doberman from NA lines and a natural doberman from NA lines are both dobermans from NA lines. In a thread about different types that occur within a breed, the cropping/docking debate doesn't really have a place.


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## Selah Cowgirl (Nov 14, 2009)

Luckly most show Griffs are also hunt griffs, 5 of the invites for Westminster had hunt titles. Most if not all of the bloodlines are mixed, a stud is going to produce pups with a great hunt drive with awesome conformation.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I honestly don't see how cropped ears that flop are any more amusing or weird than my Chihuahua mix's natural up ears that also flop when she moves.

In Chihuahuas there's a very obvious difference between the pet types ("apple" and "deer" head) and the show types. If Roxie were purebred she'd be a "deer" head and the only reason I know she isn't is because of her wiry coat, otherwise I would probably have assumed she were. BYBs do strange things to breeds.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Kayota said:


> I honestly don't see how cropped ears that flop are any more amusing or weird than my Chihuahua mix's natural up ears that also flop when she moves.
> 
> In Chihuahuas there's a very obvious difference between the pet types ("apple" and "deer" head) and the show types. If Roxie were purebred she'd be a "deer" head and the only reason I know she isn't is because of her wiry coat, otherwise I would probably have assumed she were. BYBs do strange things to breeds.


Do you have example pictures?


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Yeah I can dig some up! Here we go:

Deer head:

























Apple head:

























AKC Show:

























And of course I forgot the dreaded "teacup":









Obviously there's also long and smooth haired.

I'm going to be honest, and I might be biased because of Roxie's structure, but in general I prefer the leggier, larger, less extreme deer chihuahuas over the "correct" AKC type, and if I ever rescue a purebred I'll probably go for that.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks for posting! That's a pretty big difference between the two. Is one of the two types more prone to health issues? And wow, especially in the puppy I can see why the head is called an 'apple' shape. I have to admit that I do feel the urge to want to pet it...


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

Icelandic Sheepdogs can be short-haired or long-haired...

Short










Long


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

PatchworkRobot said:


> Icelandic Sheepdogs can be short-haired or long-haired...
> 
> Short


Interesting, I didn't know that. I thought they only came in longcoat.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

PatchworkRobot said:


> Icelandic Sheepdogs can be short-haired or long-haired...
> 
> Short
> 
> ...


Man, those are some beautiful dogs. The coats on the dogs in those photos looks a lot less coarse than I thought it was? Is it just a trick of the light? I always thought that their coats were more similar in texture to Norwegian Elkhounds, but in those photos it looks a lot closer to a border collie, texture-wise. (I could be very wrong - I don't think I've ever met an Icelandic Sheepdog).


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

gingerkid said:


> Man, those are some beautiful dogs. The coats on the dogs in those photos looks a lot less coarse than I thought it was? Is it just a trick of the light? I always thought that their coats were more similar in texture to Norwegian Elkhounds, but in those photos it looks a lot closer to a border collie, texture-wise. (I could be very wrong - I don't think I've ever met an Icelandic Sheepdog).


They aren't that coarse at all. Kweeba, the top picture, has a pretty soft coat. Think something slightly between a short-coated BC and a husky when it comes to texture. Ruthless, the bottom picture, is one of the softest dogs I've ever known. Her hair is softer than mine, even.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

PatchworkRobot said:


> They aren't that coarse at all. Kweeba, the top picture, has a pretty soft coat. Think something slightly between a short-coated BC and a husky when it comes to texture. Ruthless, the bottom picture, is one of the softest dogs I've ever known. Her hair is softer than mine, even.


Well then! They were already on my "someday" list.... now they've moved up a whole lot further!


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