# Dog on dog agression, 9 year old adoptee



## Bridget666 (May 20, 2016)

This is going to be a long tail but I want you to get a good picture so I beg your patience.

Two months ago I adopted a dog from a reputable dog shelter.
We already have an elderly and very sweet PomX called Genna and a cat called Gerry.
Genna is very much my Daughters dog, and the cat belongs to my son.
I've had pets all my adult life, from my very dear Tiggy RIP to adopted cats but at the moment have no dog that's my own.

I've been widowed for three years and as the kids are growing up,(18 and 22) they are off on their own and I dont seem to have much to do.

We moved to a new area in the inner city and I dont know anyone here 

So..I decicided to adopt another dog for me to love and improve my exersise and social contacts and hopefully give a loving and enriched life to.

Genna, being only about 8KG, suffering arthritis and generally being a bit frail, I thought a quiet older dog would be best...and hopefully one that was not cat shy.

So..I went to one of the best known shelters in the city.

On their advise, I took Genna with us.

Well we found Boo.

9 year old staffie..crossed with something a bit bigger..they said Boxer? ( Vet says she could have a bit of Ridgeback there too)

Leaving Genna with my Daughter, I went up to greet Boo. She came quietly up to me gently wagging her tail..sniffed my open hand and sat looking ecpectantly.

So the attendant leashed her to meet Genna.
She was perfect..sniffed eachothers noses, then more or less lost interest.
I took them both to the play area..no problems..though Boo didn't seem to understand what a ball was for.

Anyway, I took her Home.
She seemed to have a cough so I took her to our vet the same day for a general check up.
She was quiet but showed no undue anxiety to my admittedly untutered eye.

She had Kennel Cough but otherwise deemed a fit healthy dog.
She had shots and we kept her away from other dogs for 10 days.
All this time she was great with Genna..(apart from being a bit clumsy and walking over her sometimes if exited..Great with the cat too..she didn't even mind the cat sniffing her food while she was eating..she has No guarding issues.

She was very needy though, would walk so close to me indoors..like her nose tucked into my knee.
Also pawed a lot. Hooking us.
She also was so quiet, barked at nothing..she olny started barking and only at other dogs walking past the house last week..thats 8 weeks of total silence. 
She's nervous of an even slightly stern voice, the hose, the broom and vac.

Anyway, 10 days after we got her I took her to the park on lead for the first time..
In short its a disaster, she slipped her lead and aggressivly attacked a small dog..no damage but very dominant..bowled it over.

She tried to get at every other dog she sees..walking her on the street is a nightmare..we are always trying to look out for other dogs to avoid...pretty impossible as there are literally probably a hundred dogs live within a 1 km radius.

Ive tried conditioning her with food and praise treat if she sees another dog even 50 feet away..we try not to get closer than that.

I took her to a behavioural specialist at the RSPCA for a 2 hour one to one assessment.

She attacked the toy dogs, we couldn't distract her.
The trainers said if those dogs had been real she'd have killed them.
They said that IF we spent at least 6 months, firstly de stressing her with NO contact with other dogs except Genna, blocking her view of dogs walking by..hand feeding her ALL her food in attention/distraction training. For two weeks.then spend 6 months slowly increseing her distance tolerance we MAY be able to eventually get her to the point where she will tolerate MOST other dogs. But she should never be allowed off leash and never be trusted.

I can't maintain that level of training.. I work 5 days per week and our family are just not well organised people that have strict routines about anything..Thats just the way we are.
I can spend maybe an hour a day exersizing her and training but this regime would need 2 hours just to feed her.

She's fine with Genna and the Cat..but she did snap at me once when I was trying to restrain her from another dog.

Please help.

Mel


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

You can only help her as much as YOU can help her. If you feel that you cannot commit to that level of training, then it is best for you to return the dog to the shelter so they can place it with someone who can or complete that training themselves. There is no shame in deciding that certain issues are too much for you and your family to handle, because it is dangerous to both you and the dog if you cannot effectively manage the dog and her environment or commit the time and money to it. No shame at all, you are helping the dog by placing her in the best possible situation for her unique issues.


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## Bridget666 (May 20, 2016)

Unfortunately, over here in Victoria we have very strict government guidelines guidelines for shelters ..A shelter *must not* put a dog up for adoption if it has serious behavioural issues..They would euthanase her, probably after keeping her for a while in a high stress environment, lonely and sad..I can't do that to her.

This morning we had a long family conference ..the kids and I.
My son is confident we can work with her.
My Daughter want's her gone because she's nervous around her and she's feeling very anxious about our other dog's frailty and is worried that as Boo seems to now be being a bit bossier with both the dog and the cat..she'll do her some harm.
I have mixed feelings.
We have decided to.....
Firstly take her to our vet and discuss these issues and if needed get her on some anti anxiety meds.

Then follow strictly the suggestions made to reduce the anxiety producing chemicals in her body...No contact with dogs for two weeks, cover the gate so she cant see other dogs and using this time to really work on distraction and attention training or if she cant work on this for a few weeks because of the meds..work on it when she's adjusted.

We've decided that we can still love and enjoy a dog that isn't perfect.
We are all on probation for 3-4 weeks...If she doesn't improve and we all have really done everything we can I'll take her to our vets to euthanase..This may provoke protests but really..things are different in Oz re dog adoption..She wasn't properly stress tested when we took her and I doubt her previous owners told the truth.
I suspect from her behaviour that she's been kept always in a yard, had no training at all and had a bark collar used.
Her chances of being re adopted are just about zero...If she has to be put to sleep, I'd rather it was done in a gentle manner with me there.

We really are hoping to get her to the point where she'll walk without "hunting" be reasonably reliable and calm on a leash.
If we can do that then that will be enough. I think she has the potential to be a sweet dog if she stops being so needy and pushy in her neediness.

Any suggestions to help us in these next 4 weeks most gratefully accepted. We have a small square yard, only 25' square but with a 60' x5' passageway so she will be able to get some playtime and exercise.


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## Bridget666 (May 20, 2016)

afraid funds don't run to that..But I did contact the shelter that she came to this afternoon and booked her in for another assessment and they may refer her to their specialist Vet if they think her behaviour is suitable for meds.. 

They did say they would probably not put her up for adoption again so it's up to us to do everything we can.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

with dog reactive dogs it's about setting your initial goals for ( management ) solid ob skills/team skills with you.. makes it easy to maneuver situations when you have a dog that will stay on task. Makes a huge difference for a dog acting out that they don't like something or that they want to kill something... but they stay at the heel position step for step with you.. Being dedicated to developing management skills is so much easier to focus on .. then trying to convince a dog with their own mind to like what they don't like unsuccessfully for the time you spend.

Things that can accidentally happen during the process is they learn self control and self boundaries, that they still able to hear you , see you, to be able to follow directions 

I had a trainer tell me my one dogs was (genetically "crazy") he couldn't be trained out of his public issues.. I felt ok then no sense in wasting any time or effort trying to make him not crazy. So we just worked on OB skills at home, lots of detail engagement rules of playing games... Smart dog.. favorite game was 1, 2, 3, red light .. Everything had rules, structure .. Going for a walk had rules. sit, get collar and lead on, wait for the door to open, wait til given the command before going out the open door.. sit wait while I closed the door, then the release to lets go.. drills on the walks of short lead, tight heels eyes on me ( which helps you get through situation) then back to loose lead explore to your hearts content... He loved structure rules truly feel it gave him balance and what to focus on. when the world around him disturbed him. The day of accident happen for him to run out the door. I thought it was clear in the yard and it wasn't there was a strange dog also loose in the yard.. Once they came face to face my dog turned to come back to me at the door because it's always been a rule lol .. we never loose when other dogs are loose in the yard.. lol .. they are leaning from teaching management skills. Doesn't mean that he would change how he felt about the world he lived in... 

Main thing for right now work on management skills .. And your daughter should work on her pup too... having a family group... all dogs must learn to respect the household.. pushing and shoving as the pup matures into an adult will only cause extreme problems.. NOT Because your new pup is a bad dog... but because they dogs and dogs don't like to be pushed on or challenged and eventually put a stop to it fighting back.. You don't want your family group of animals to have to go that way.. So both dogs need structure to leave each other alone and respect one another ..

Best wishes


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

There are a lot of dogs that do not socialize well with other dogs. Bull breeds and terriers are especially prone to dog aggression, although I had a Lab who hated other dogs so it can happen with any breed.

This is usually manageable. . .what are your goals? Getting her to be a good dog park dog is not a realistic goal. I do think you can get to the point where she behaves on leash. I guess I haven't seen anything in your description that makes me think she needs to be killed.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

That's too bad about your shelter. But, if you and your family are willing to commit to managing her, her environment, and training her, then go for it.


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## Bridget666 (May 20, 2016)

Thanks for all your support.
I started her distraction training this morning.
The trainer said to hand feed her all her morning kibble. Asking her to sit, focus on me and then toss a few pieces a few feet away..repeat .
It's hard to know if she's actually being distracted because there's nothing BUT the food to distract her in the yard. But I suppose at this stage just getting her to sit on command for every bite is a positive.
I can't work on this distraction training in other environments until she's de stressed..about two weeks away.


I thought to prevent her getting bored with this hand feeding (It takes at least 1/2 an hour) I could put some of her kibble in a Kong toy for 15 mins and then continue the hand feeding..sort of break the training into shorter sessions.and give me some time in between to get ready for work etc...but I don't know how to teach her to get the food out of the kong!

The one I have has a heavy base that it sits on and the hole is small and in the side of it..She has to learn to keep it on it's side and roll it before it pops up back on it's base..after she's licked the peanut butter off the hole she just looses interest in the food inside.


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## Sandy.klo (Sep 4, 2016)

I completely understand. My baby goes to doggy daycare ever single day, can be with any size or age dog and do wonderfully, and has never even had a scuffle (VERY rare.) However, she IS "leash-reactive."
What many people don't understand is that leash reactivity is NOT going to translate to 'family,' the dog and cat. With your lifestyle, you could easily just wear a muzzle on walks. This aggression will not translate to your daughter's dog or the cat. Generally, with rescues especially, once they finally find a family they live so much, and a life that us truly good, they can get overzealous in protecting that. Even when she snapped at you, it seems clear she was in fight mode trying to protect you, and probably wanted you to let her take the risk and handle it. That's why before she had a real home she was fine meeting your daughter's dog; she had no family to protect.
Now, you and your daughter, her doggy, your cat, she loves them so much and has such horrible experiences she feels so protective she is much too quick to defend. Would it be possible to use a muzzle on walks, and do a bit of conditioning while you are walking with the muzzle?
Also, rescues with quick behavior changes are much easier to reverse. They are basically guessing at what they should be doing, so it's much, much easier than an adult dog who has solidified a behavior. It's also sometimes very helpful to have a well behaved dog come as well in these circumstances, like your daughter's dog. Sometimes the new dog will see the family dog, see the praise they get fir being good, and realize that is what is expected in the family.
Is a muzzle on walks possible for now?


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