# Wolf behavior



## Thane (Feb 19, 2009)

Okay, quick run-down. My brother and I live next door to each other, and decided to share responsibility for a dog. I work from home and while he works in town it's not a 40 hour week, so we hope to be able to give the dog a lot of attention. I've never had a dog; he had one 40+ years ago for a short time.

We got a wolf hybrid. It has some Akita and Malamute, but it's >90% Alaskan wolf. Beautiful creature, very friendly. We got him at seven weeks, and he's now fifteen weeks...it's amazing how fast he grows. We have to keep reminding ourselves of how young he is still. 

Since neither of us had a lot of experience, we read/viewed Cesar Milan's material. 

From 7-10 weeks we walked him, but at about 10 weeks it became obvious that he had more energy than we did, and it was only going to get worse, so we started riding bicycles with him. Almost immediately he was able to do four miles a day without trouble, at a reasonable bicycle clip. Now, five weeks later, he's not far from being able to challenge us for speed, if not for endurance (on a bike). I expect that when his legs are twice as long, he'll be able to outrun us easily, at least for short periods. We're training him to always run beside and to the right of us, so that we're on the road, he's on the side.

We've been training him on sit-stay-come. We got the impression that he was very intelligent, since he picked that up very quickly.

So, our question: the last few days he suddenly grew rebellious. We HAD gotten to the point where we were letting him off the leash for the entire run, and he'd keep up and run close beside us. Now, suddenly, he stops, drags on the leash for long periods, or runs away from us sometimes when he's off the leash. During sit-stay-come training, half the time he acts like he's no longer interested - despite the cheese that he liked before.

Is this normal behavior? Are we just wildly optimistic about how fast a young dog can take this all in? Do dogs go through phases like teenagers? Should we just settle down and keep on with him, or are we doing something obviously wrong?

Thanks!


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

You are WAY in over your head. 

Find a REPUTABLE local trainer and get that dog into classes (or privates- frankly, I wouldn't have a wolf hybrid in my classes for liability reasons) ASAP. 

Avoid any trainers that tout Milan as the be-all and end all of methods. His crap doesn't work with dogs that are independent and smart enough to realize that you can only physically punish them when you can catch them.


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## Thane (Feb 19, 2009)

Okay...

First, I'd like answers to my questions above. Second, I'd like to know what you believe we're doing incorrectly. Third, I'd like to know exactly how much experience you have with wolves.

People who just arrogantly say that we're in over our heads...don't get listened to.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

If this pup is truly 90% wolf (not all advertised as hybrids of any percentage actually are) you need to get together ASAP with a wolf expert in order to learn everything you can about wolf behavior and what you can probably expect in the future.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

www.wolfpark.org

check their hybrid pages

aas for wolf folks that would be to a lesser extent me

to a greater extent Trumpetjock and Nekomi

do a forum search for a thread call

*things you NEED to know before you choose a wolf hybrid as your pup.*

you ARE in over your head.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Please get in touch with this professional ASAP:

http://www.nicolewilde.com

Purchase the two books she has available on the subject of wolfdogs:

Living with Wolfdogs, 2nd Edition
An Everyday Guide to a Lifetime Companionship

http://www.phantompub.com/LivingWithWolfdogs.htm


Wolfdogs A-Z
Behavior, Training & More 

http://www.phantompub.com/WolfdogsAtoZ.htm


Nicole Wilde has worked with wolfdog (aka wolf hybrid) rescue, education and training for over fifteen years. She is also a professional, certified dog trainer who uses positive, motivational methods.


Read everything here:

http://www.inetdesign.com/wolfdunn


And ditch Cesar.


I would also consult the guys at http://www.wolfpark.org about your wolfpup doing so much running, even though he can keep up. Since he's so energetic you'll obviously have to find other ways to tire him out, which will probably have to be mentally, such as ripping open containers or searching over land to find food, shaping games, etc.


Good luck!


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Thane said:


> Okay, quick run-down. My brother and I live next door to each other, and decided to share responsibility for a dog. I work from home and while he works in town it's not a 40 hour week, so we hope to be able to give the dog a lot of attention. I've never had a dog; he had one 40+ years ago for a short time.
> 
> We got a wolf hybrid. It has some Akita and Malamute, but it's >90% Alaskan wolf. Beautiful creature, very friendly. We got him at seven weeks, and he's now fifteen weeks...it's amazing how fast he grows. We have to keep reminding ourselves of how young he is still.
> 
> ...


Your thread is why you were told you're way over your head. Truthfully, you are over your head. IF this animal is truly 90% wolf you have no idea what you have gotten yourself into. Wolves are wonderful animals but they do not make good pets for many reasons. Generally those who tell you they've had wonderful experiences have either (probably unknown to them) either not truly had a wolf hybrid or had one with an extremely low percentage of wolf blood in it.

As I said in my previous post, you need to consult immediately with a true wolf expert. Here is some information for you:
http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/guidelines.html
http://www.wolftown.org/wolves_and_hybrids_06.pdf


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

http://www.dogforums.com/19-first-time-dog-owner/43395-thing-you-need-know.html

this is the thread. it outlines the basic stuff and gives some resource info.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

If you don't mind, could you post some pics of your pup, and a description of his general personality (skittish or outgoing, vocal or quiet, what kinds of vocalizations, good o r bad in the car, escape artist, etc.)? 

This would really be helpful so I can evaluate the true wolf content in your pup. I know that your pup was sold to you as 90%, but sadly, the majority of breeders out there greatly exaggerate the wolf content in their pups. If you post some pics (full body, face, ears, feet/toenails), I can give you my best guess on what the content range really is.

Once we've established that, I can give you some better recommendations, but here are my thoughts for now:



> From 7-10 weeks we walked him, but at about 10 weeks it became obvious that he had more energy than we did, and it was only going to get worse, so we started riding bicycles with him. Almost immediately he was able to do four miles a day without trouble, at a reasonable bicycle clip. Now, five weeks later, he's not far from being able to challenge us for speed, if not for endurance (on a bike). I expect that when his legs are twice as long, he'll be able to outrun us easily, at least for short periods. We're training him to always run beside and to the right of us, so that we're on the road, he's on the side.


This is a great idea since wolf hybrids need a LOT of exercise - running with them is a great idea, BUT - 



> So, our question: the last few days he suddenly grew rebellious. We HAD gotten to the point where we were letting him off the leash for the entire run, and he'd keep up and run close beside us. Now, suddenly, he stops, drags on the leash for long periods, or runs away from us sometimes when he's off the leash.


PLEASE never, ever have your wolf hybrid off-leash! These animals can never be trusted off-leash, since their instincts to roam are very, very strong. Also, as you've seen firsthand, their endurance is legendary - pure wolves can travel up to 30 miles a day at an easy trot, in search of food. So, if your little one gets away from you, he is going to be very hard to get back. And if Animal Control gets ahold of him - let's just say that wolf hybrids don't get a very good reception at most facilities. Chances are, your pup will be euthanized if he looks anything like the 90% wolf you believe you have.

Please keep him on-leash, and if you find you can't keep up with him during exercise, consider training him to run on a bike attachment, or, more safely, a scooter rig. (Of course, this depends on his wolf percentage, as most high-contents will not tolerate this.) BUT, please consider his age - he is very young, so he shouldn't be run on pavement or hard surfaces. Try to stick to grass and loose dirt, and if you can't, reconsider running him at all - like a previous poster mentioned, mental stimulation will help burn energy. A large, outdoor, escape-proof enclosure to play in is pretty much a necessity, and will help greatly.



> During sit-stay-come training, half the time he acts like he's no longer interested - despite the cheese that he liked before.


This is typical of hybrids, as well as many Northern breeds. They are very intelligent, but easily bored! It's up to you to keep training interesting and fun for him, and give him a reason to be motivated to learn. As soon as your pup is no longer motivated, he is no longer going to listen to you. Life rewards are HUGELY helpful for wolf hybrids - do a search on this forum to get the jist of life rewards in training.

Also, I'd recommend you definitely look into other training styles - Cesar Milan's methods are absolutely not suited to wolf hybrids. These creatures are very sensitive and rough handling of any kind will backfire for you both... I'd recommend positive training techniques (Google Ian Dunbar).

Also, definitely, definitely pick up Nicole Wilde's two books - "Living with Wolfdogs" and "Wolfdogs A - Z". Also, there are several very helpful Yahoo groups for wolfdogs you can check out if you're interested.

If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to post. And you can PM me anytime. The important thing to me is seeing folks succeed with these animals for the long haul - which is admittedly hard to do for the average dog owner. They are difficult, sensitive, and very different from domestic dogs. Far too many end up in shelters (or worse) because the owner didn't do their research. Your pup is still young, and there is still time to do right by him.  Just be forewarned that "doing right" by a wolf hybrid is expensive, time-consuming, and often requires a significant change in lifestyle. The other important thing, in my mind, is making sure that folks who can no longer keep their wolf hybrid, know where they can find help with placement.

Oh, and please post pics of your fellow so I can give you better advice based on his wolf percentage.


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## Thane (Feb 19, 2009)

Thanks, everyone. Looks like some good info...I will take a look.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Mind-boggling, we just had a chimp attack that really worked a woman over and then chimp was put down. 

*First, I'd like answers to my questions above. Second, I'd like to know what you believe we're doing incorrectly. Third, I'd like to know exactly how much experience you have with wolves. People who just arrogantly say that we're in over our heads...don't get listened to.*

I don't think you're going to like the answers you're gonna get here. Responsible people are trying to give you the info you need. If this dog is truly 90% wolf you are in way over your heads, that's a fact. Since a lot of wolf-hybrids are scams I'm going to hope you lucked out and your dog is all dog. Since I'm a dog trainer, I wouldn't be any help to you and your wolf. Good luck and count your fingers every night.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

If what you have is truly 90% wolf, you're in for a hell of a ride. 

I'll make this nice and simple. Here's a priority list that you need to take care of. Start at number 1, and go down the list.

1. Stop using any type of punishment. No leash corrections. No physical manipulation. Not even an harsh language.

2. Stop letting him off-leash.

3. Visit the wolfpark links earlier in the thread.

4. Do everything Nekomi suggested. With a few pictures and temperament descriptions, we could help out quite a bit more.

5. Get in contact with a professional trainer who has dealt with wolves before. Judging by the fact that you even came here to ask questions about it, I KNOW you're in way over your head. If you were even halfways prepared for this type of dog you wouldn't be here asking questions.



You have a time limit. Hybrids are like time bombs. They act like perfectly normal, and in most cases extremely trainable, dogs until they hit puberty. When these animals hit puberty it's like playing russian roulette. Sometimes, your dog doesn't change. Sometimes, they turn into a true wolf. The higher content your dog is the more bullets you've got in the gun. 

If your dog is truly 90%, you're playing with a round already in the chamber.


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## Thane (Feb 19, 2009)




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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I'll leave Nekomi and TJ to their opinions but he has a VERY wild look about him. If this is TRULY your first k-9, you're in WAY TOO DEEP!!!!! I've been around gaurdian breeds my WHOLE life (42 years), some of them very powerful (Mastiffs and Neos), and would NEVER take on a wolf hybrid of ANY percentage. 

I will tell you to stay FAR away from ANY type of adversive training (Melan, New Skete, ECT), the breeds he's supposed to be mixed with don't do well with adversives and neither do true wolves. 

Good luck and LISTEN to TJ and Neko.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Looking at your pics... it's a hard guess, but I'd say there is a strong possibility that your pup has some wolf in him - but I really don't think he is 90% like the breeder claimed. The reason I say this is:

-He is stocky, not lanky enough (could just be the angle of the pic, though)
-His muzzle is a bit boxy
-His markings are too well-defined for his age
-His chest is too wide

However, his dark coloring, dark nails, and ears do seem to indicate some wolf percentage.

Next step is, can you provide pics of the parents, or the breeder's website? And info about his personality?

Keep in mind that this is all guesswork over the limitations of the Net, but that's the best we can do when dealing with wolf hybrids - since misinformation abounds with these guys! But my guess would be mid-content - right around 50%, give or take a little. That may change if you can show us pics of the parents.

From the pics, I would *definitely* recommend that you get involved with the wolf/wolfdog community ASAP - check out the links provided by other posters and get in touch with a trainer familiar with wolfdogs. I have to admit that I was expecting a low-to-no content pup, but I don't think that's what you have.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

I think he is probably legit. 

which means you have a LOT of studying to do..


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## deege39 (Dec 29, 2008)

All I have to say is... I really think the research should have been done _BEFORE_ the purchase was made.

Wolf-Hybrids _can be_ dangerous, and that's a risk that a lot of people aren't prepared to take on responsibly.

I give you my best wishes, good luck with the research, and by the way- Be it he's 90 or 10% wolf... He's gorgeous!


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

Looks a lot like a younger version of this Norwegian Elkhound mix I found Online:


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

OK, some more thoughts - 

-You need to find out if wolfdogs are legal where you live (this means state, county, AND city/township laws). If they are not legal, and he really is 50% or more, you will NOT be able to "hide" him from authorities. This will mean heartbreak for you, and a completely unfair ending for your baby. If they are not legal, be prepared to make hard decisions. If they are legal, then you still have some work ahead of you.

-You need to get started on making this guy a secure enclosure. I don't know how much land you live on, but he's going to need a secure place to run, play, and live... because there is very little chance that he will be able to make it as a housedog as he matures. Wolf hybrids of any significant content are usually happiest outdoors, and even if they can live in the house, they need a secure outdoor area for the times they can't be supervised, or when you just want to play and relax outside with him. "Secure" means 8 feet of heavy-duty chainlink or cattle panel fencing, with lean-ins, dig-guards, and/or hotwire to make it escape proof. Wolfdogs can jump over 6' fences with ease, dig under almost anything, and chew through fencing that is less than 9 guage (even that is debatable, as the other thread pointed out - you may need to go even stronger). Be prepared to spend $1000 or more to do this right.

-Start reading up on enrichment for wolfdogs kept outdoors. Chances are he will need a companion if he is kept outside for the majority of the time (I would say it is a necessity). Wolfdogs are hugely pack-driven and cannot tolerate a solitary lifestyle. Keep in mind that this companion does NOT have to be another wolfdog, and especially keep in mind that NOW is not the time to go buy another pup, but I'm just letting you know that if you didn't want 2 dogs, you are dealing with the wrong breed.  Read up on things like toys to put in the enclosure, games, seasonal things like watermelon and pumpkin to tear into. Start researching how to build an appropriate outdoor house for him (Nicole Wilde's books have a great "doghouse" design).

-Kibble is probably not going to be optimum for your pup - wolfdogs do best on a raw diet, or at the VERY least, high-quality grain free canned food. This can get expensive, especially as your guy grows. Be aware also that wolfdogs often have allergies to grain, especially wheat and soy, so read food labels carefully. (Low-contents can be the exception to the rule here.)

-You need to start diligent socializing right away, getting him used to ALL kinds of strangers - men, women, children, all different weights, heights, beards/no beards, people with hats, umbrellas; other dogs of all sizes and breeds, cats and other animals if you can safely do this. Socialization is a lifelong process for wolfdogs. Heavy socialization as a pup is KEY, but you will have to continue exposing him to new people and situations as he grows older in order to keep timidness at bay (but keep in mind that it is partly genetic, so it doesn't always work).

-Food guarding is an issue you will likely run into as your pup grows. I would recommend buying the book "Mine! A Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs" and implementing the "maintenance program" ASAP. This will hopefully help keep this issue from ever arising in your pup.

-Keep in mind that your pup will change as he grows older. Neutering is not an option (IMO, considering his content range, and your experience level), it is a NECESSITY. I would neuter him as a pup, don't wait until he is an adult. 

-Do reading on "Winter Wolf Syndrome". You may or may not deal with this (I hope not) but you need to be aware of the possibility that your boy could be pretty cranky for part of the year.

I hope all this helps. I know these are very random thoughts, but I'm just typing as I'm thinking of things to add.

Your little one is very beautiful and I really wish you only the best of luck with him. Please don't hesitate to ask for more help.

Pamperedpups - he does have the same cape and facial markings, but don't Elkhound pups usually have a dark facial mask as pups (and dark feet)? I'm not familiar with the breed.

This is why we should see pics of the parents too.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

My hat's in the ring too. I think he's legit. 

My first inclination was exactly as Nekomi said though, he's waaay too stocky to be 90%. Most of his individual features point to wolf, but his body and head are quite different. I actually got the privilege to meet a litter of wolf pups at the International Wolf Center last year. He doesn't look like them one bit.

I agree with N that he's probably mid content. This doesn't change anything though. You're still playing Russian roulette, but now there's only 3 bullets instead of a full load. Go through the checklist, read wolfpark, listen to advice here.

Find a trainer who knows what they're doing.



nekomi said:


> Pamperedpups - he does have the same cape and facial markings, but don't Elkhound pups usually have a dark facial mask as pups (and dark feet)? I'm not familiar with the breed.
> 
> This is why we should see pics of the parents too.


I highly doubt he's an elkhound. This is what elkie puppies look like at that age:


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Thanks for the pics, TJ - that's exactly what I was thinking, the dark mask and feet I remembered seeing on Elkhound pups.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

He's going to eat you and your brother.


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

As it says, the dog pictured in my previous post is an Elkhound MIX.


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## deege39 (Dec 29, 2008)

I think it's just a really well-bred mix... There are huskies that sometimes I'd _swear_ look like wolves... But they aren't. 

I still don't think the percentage of the wolf's genetics are anything less to scoff at... The danger's still real, and it's still there; Unless there's careful training, one could see that danger some day, and it'd be in the hands of the owner at that point.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

deege39 said:


> I think it's just a really well-bred mix... There are huskies that sometimes I'd _swear_ look like wolves... But they aren't.
> 
> I still don't think the percentage of the wolf's genetics are anything less to scoff at... The danger's still real, and it's still there; Unless there's careful training, one could see that danger some day, and it'd be in the hands of the owner at that point.


no..he is pretty definatly a hybrid..there are certain individual characteristics that wolves do have that dogs do not. they are small things like fur lining the ears, proportions of the head, nails etc etc...

he has a couple...im not good enough to make a realistic judgement call on content though..but TJ and Nekomi are. I have very little doubt that's a hybrid.

Some of the character hints in the first post kind of point to hybrid as well.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Agreed 100% with Zim, he is almost certainly a hybrid. He looks exactly like I'd expect a 50% wolf/Mal pup to look. He has a lot of little features that give him away.

Keep in mind that to the untrained eye, certain colors of huskies and husky-mixes DO look very "wolfy". But the longer you work with wolfdogs, the easier it gets to tell the difference.


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

I think Nekomi has been pretty much on-point with everything so far, so I'm not sure if my 2 cents are worth anything... but here goes!

As far as being 90% wolf... I doubt that. Maybe 50% at most.

I'd expect a high content wolf pup to look more like this:







(Picture courtesy Howling Woods Farms, Wolf/Wolfdog rescue - http://www.howlingwoods.org/wolf_dogs.html for info on wolfdogs)

If you love your pup, and you're willing to put the time and effort into properly training and caring for him (which it sounds like), I don't doubt your abilities. I've worked with several people who have raised wolfdogs and pure wolves (all rescued animals), and they are extremely friendly, well-mannered animals... so just because your dog is part wolf, doesn't mean he's a lost cause.

I'd like to point out that I of course do note promote purchasing wolfdogs (or supposed wolfdogs). It's just another form of back-yard-breeding, only this kind can be especially dangerous (for the animal and the people) if ill-informed. For that reason, I'm curious as to how you obtained this little guy?

Anyway... here's something the Howling Woods Farms site notes:

Wolf dogs are smart and learn commands easily, but often decide to ignore them. They do not respond to discipline the way most dogs do. Training a wolf dog is about as 'easy' as training a house cat. You must earn their respect if you expect them to listen to you. 

Also, you should keep in mind high content wolfdogs need a special diet. Diet is important for your pet's health, well-being, and behavior. Like Nekomi said, raw diets are usually best for wolf mixes, so I'd look into that.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Shouldn't this be in the Other Pets section?


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

RonE said:


> Shouldn't this be in the Other Pets section?


Witty this evening, aren't we Ron?


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## JessRU09 (Aug 25, 2008)

RonE said:


> Shouldn't this be in the Other Pets section?


Genetically, the wolf and the dog are the same species. So no, not really.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Genetics aside, anyone who tries to raise a wolf as if it were a domestic dog is likely to suffer. 

I think it's perfectly fine to discuss wolves and hybrids on a dogforum. We are all fascinated by them. But I get very nervous when folks talk about applying dog training, dog diet, dog vet care, etc as if wolves and dogs are interchangeable.

It seems a lot like discussing which litter box will work best for a Siberian tiger.

I do understand that most posters on this thread are NOT suggesting such a correlation.


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

I just love these big, bad tough folks who have to fiddle with nature and get a "wolf dog" only to realize they don't have a flipping clue as to what they're doing.

....and I seriously doubt that dog is 90% wolf. 

To the OP, since you wanted this pet so badly, why don't you do the leg work and figure out how to handle/train this dog yourself instead of posting on a dog pet message board expecting us to answer your questions for you. And God help anyone who encounters your pet off leash. Why on Earth would you think it's a good idea to have an uncontrollable wolf hybrid OFF LEASH???? That shows incredibly poor judgement...not the judgement of someone I think is responsibile enough to be raising a wolf dog. Please educate yourself on the training and behavior you need to know, PLUS the applicable laws in your area.

Meh.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

> Genetics aside, anyone who tries to raise a wolf as if it were a domestic dog is likely to suffer.
> 
> I think it's perfectly fine to discuss wolves and hybrids on a dogforum. We are all fascinated by them. But I get very nervous when folks talk about applying dog training, dog diet, dog vet care, etc as if wolves and dogs are interchangeable.
> 
> ...


I can see where you're coming from, and understand your concern, but thankfully, we're not dealing with a pure wolf here, but a hybrid, likely 50% Malamute. So, dog vet care and dog training techniques are highly applicable in this situation. They may or may not be when dealing with a pure wolf - but I do know that the same positive reinforcement techniques are used to train the wolves at Wolf Park, and that vet care is extremely similar across the board (except for increased sensitivity to anesthesia in wolves and some wolfdogs). Diet, however, is a big difference as I mentioned before.

They are definitely not interchangeable, and raising a hybrid exactly like a domestic is not correct at all, but there is a LOT of overlap - more than many folks realize. Definitely more overlap than a housecat and a tiger (although I'm sure my cats would beg to differ).  (Sorry, not trying to be disrespectful, just couldn't resist.  )


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## deege39 (Dec 29, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> no..he is pretty definatly a hybrid..there are certain individual characteristics that wolves do have that dogs do not. they are small things like fur lining the ears, proportions of the head, nails etc etc...
> 
> he has a couple...im not good enough to make a realistic judgement call on content though..but TJ and Nekomi are. I have very little doubt that's a hybrid.
> 
> Some of the character hints in the first post kind of point to hybrid as well.


I believe what I stated was misunderstood... Excuse me for not saying "hybrid" instead of "mix". I was actually just _agreeing_ with everyone, my point was that the dog can look just like a wolf, and yet have just a small percentage in his genes, which doesn't make this situation any less difficult to handle.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

The pup actually looks fairly typical of Akita mix puppies. (Which strikes me as one of the WORST choices for a breed to mix with wolf EVER.) 

RonE, you know that operant conditioning works on everyone, right? Including guppies and humans.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Dogstar said:


> RonE, you know that operant conditioning works on everyone, right? Including guppies and humans.


Oddly enough, just the other day I read a study done in the 80s (I believe) where they used operant conditioning on platyhelminthe flatworms! They don't even have a brain, just a nerve net.

They used electric shock tied with a flashing light on them. Over time, they started showing the same physiological response to just the light flash, but without the shock.

The really cool part of the study was that they were able to cut the worms in half, let them regenerate, and the two halves still retained the operant response to the light!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

To the original poster: you've received some EXCELLENT advice in this thread and I would heed every single word of it. (Except maybe Westhighlander's post. ) You have a lot -- a LOT -- of work ahead of you. Raising a hybrid is VASTLY different from raising any breed of dog. And please don't act as if we're the ones being condescending and arrogant. Believe it or not, it is actually pretty shocking to us that someone would go out and acquire a wolf-dog without knowing what a gargantuan task lay before them.

Oh yeah, and: AWWWWW BABY ROCKY


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Dogstar said:


> The pup actually looks fairly typical of Akita mix puppies. *(Which strikes me as one of the WORST choices for a breed to mix with wolf EVER.)*


not quite the worst. that would be pit x wolf....


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

RonE said:


> Genetics aside, anyone who tries to raise a wolf as if it were a domestic dog is likely to suffer.
> 
> I think it's perfectly fine to discuss wolves and hybrids on a dogforum. We are all fascinated by them. But I get very nervous when folks talk about applying dog training, dog diet, dog vet care, etc as if wolves and dogs are interchangeable.
> 
> ...


RonE
I have not been on since yesterday and was very surprised reading all the training/feeding tips etc. I thought we were talking about a litter of Corgis.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> not quite the worst. that would be pit x wolf....


I don't know- in general, I've found MUCH more stable temperaments in pits than Akitas as a whole. I see a lot of reactive and moderately DA pits, but most of them give you LOTS of warning before any sort of aggression when it comes to HA. Akitas? Not so much.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Dogstar said:


> I don't know- in general, I've found MUCH more stable temperaments in pits than Akitas as a whole. I see a lot of reactive and moderately DA pits, but most of them give you LOTS of warning before any sort of aggression when it comes to HA. Akitas? Not so much.


Going to agree with Dogstar on this one. I treat every Akita I meet with a *whole* lot more care than I do pits. Stability really is the key word here. Even some of the worst aggressive pits I've seen are very predictable. Easily readable body language, plenty of warning posturing normally. Akitas aren't that way in the least. They aren't very biddable dogs either, so it's difficult for the average person to modify and control any aggressive tendencies they have in the first place.

I agree that an akita is about the worst possible dog you could mix with a wolf... and I own a half akita mix!

Oh, also I highly doubt that it's an akita mix puppyThey are alot more boxy, and the head type is very different. Here's a pic of a 12 week old akita pup:










One at 8 weeks: 








. 



I'm going to go with nekomi on this and say malamute. It's the most likely from physical appearance, imo, and it's also the most common dog to mix with wolves for hybrids (I've seen it more often than huskies actually).


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Dogstar said:


> I don't know- in general, I've found MUCH more stable temperaments in pits than Akitas as a whole. I see a lot of reactive and moderately DA pits, but most of them give you LOTS of warning before any sort of aggression when it comes to HA. Akitas? Not so much.


I had in my care a pit x wolf for a while....she was an extremely unstable animal...my guess as to why is this..

take the people friendly outgoing somewhat DA pit temperment and mix it with the people shy flighty prey driven nature of the wolf....the result was an extremely conflicted animal with wild unpredictable mood swings that could flip from the one extreme back to the other and repeat that several times in a matter of seconds...

the way her behavior was looked like the following was running through her head..

''I hatlove you play withmIKILL YOU iif youtouch meI love yoI hate you...'' and so on.

Bringing two such extremes together..at least in this case was a horrible idea and if it were legal id happily go over and beat the snot out of the fool who produced her...


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> I had in my care a pit x wolf for a while....she was an extremely unstable animal...my guess as to why is this..
> 
> take the people friendly outgoing somewhat DA pit temperment and mix it with the people shy flighty prey driven nature of the wolf....the result was an extremely conflicted animal with wild unpredictable mood swings that could flip from the one extreme back to the other and repeat that several times in a matter of seconds...
> 
> ...


I would venture a guess that it probably had quite a bit to do with what happened after genetics. We both know how unpredictable wolfdogs can be to begin with. You can have a whole litter turn out with completely different temperaments and physical features. Some might look completely doggie but be 100% wolf in mindset. Some might be true blue wolf bodied, but have the as much killer instinct as a gurnsey.



On a side-note, I know the subject is painful for you zim, but do you happen to have any pictures of your pit/wolf mix? Every time you bring it up, I just get struck by this intense curiosity to see what it looked like.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I probably have been running into the right Akitas (thankdoG) trained 3 and had no problems and liked em a lot. I know 3 does not give any real knowledge of a breed in general. I know they are suppose to have a reputation, I just lucked out and saw no bad streaks at all.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

wvasko said:


> I probably have been running into the right Akitas (thankdoG) trained 3 and had no problems and liked em a lot. I know 3 does not give any real knowledge of a breed in general. I know they are suppose to have a reputation, I just lucked out and saw no bad streaks at all.


Akitas that have people who spend the time to get them trained turn out to be fantastic dogs usually. They are very much on one side or the other though, and really don't fare well when in irresponsible hands.

The best way I can describe the ones I've met is that they have a very large personality. Like they walk around with their nose in the air thinking "bah.... what puny little ants! I could crush them with a single paw!". That ends up making for a really protective, loyal dog in the right hands, or a total nutcase in the wrong.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> I would venture a guess that it probably had quite a bit to do with what happened after genetics. We both know how unpredictable wolfdogs can be to begin with. You can have a whole litter turn out with completely different temperaments and physical features. Some might look completely doggie but be 100% wolf in mindset. Some might be true blue wolf bodied, but have the as much killer instinct as a gurnsey.


she was hand raised, well socialized and extremely well cared for. I inherited her from a long time friend who was an AIDS sufferer and his wolfdogs were his babies. He loved them an spent most of his considerable money making them an enclosure that was a wolfdog's dream. 

Sharia was the product of a stupid BYB ''expirament'' to breed a wolf hybrid with a ''tougher'' look and ability to guard. My friend took her in to keep her away from fools who would try to use her as intended. 

I have one picture. from a film camera. and even if I had a scanner I wouldn't post it as it is an extremely graphic photo of her corpse. I keep the pic as a reminder of the burden of responsibility when one breeds.

She looked like an overly muscular wolf for the most part. Except for the pit bull muzzle and short coat. 


if we ever have the opportunity to meet face to face TJ Ill show you the pic and tell you the whole ugly story from beginning to end..I promise.


On a side-note, I know the subject is painful for you zim, but do you happen to have any pictures of your pit/wolf mix? Every time you bring it up, I just get struck by this intense curiosity to see what it looked like.[/QUOTE]


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## Stitch (Nov 1, 2007)

Dogstar said:


> I don't know- in general, I've found MUCH more stable temperaments in pits than Akitas as a whole. I see a lot of reactive and moderately DA pits, but most of them give you LOTS of warning before any sort of aggression when it comes to HA. Akitas? Not so much.


I've heard this as well.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

As an aside here, are we talking Japanese or American Akita? Just asking out of curiousity. I know there is a big difference in physical appearance between the two - and I'd wager a guess that their temperament is different as well. I know that with Shibas, I've heard that the lines bred in Japan are much less hyper.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

nekomi said:


> As an aside here, are we talking Japanese or American Akita? Just asking out of curiousity. I know there is a big difference in physical appearance between the two - and I'd wager a guess that their temperament is different as well. I know that with Shibas, I've heard that the lines bred in Japan are much less hyper.


Unfortunately I've only dealt with the american version. I'd really love to meet a japanese akita though!


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