# getting started as a junior? (conf)



## finley.

for the past several years I've been wanting to start competing in conformation and junior showmanship. i've definitely been considering it more seriously these last two years though, and i am just dying to get into the whole dog show world!

i'm kind of unsure of _how_ to start though. i visit dog shows pretty regularly, but being a shy fourteen year old doesn't really help me make friends. i'm often treated like a baby and like i have no idea what i'm talking about, which isn't exactly unexpected but it's pretty disheartening. i tried wearing my afghan hound shirt so they would know i'm one of them... but it didn't help, lol! i try to talk to as many people as possible, which is pretty hard as i get really nervous! i just need tips on how to find someone willing to mentor me, how to make connections... you know. i would love to know how you guys started, mistakes you made, and advice you would give to a novice like me. the dog show/sport world seems so daunting, so i need all the help i can get as i make my way into it.

my breeds of interest are mostly sighthounds by the way- borzoi, salukis, afghans. but i know those are pretty hard for a beginner so i'll probably start with something a little easier.  thank you guys!


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## petpeeve

This might help. http://www.dogforums.com/dog-sports-show-forum/289866-how-begin-conformation.html There is also a link to another thread by Xeph, you'll see it in Chaos's post.

Have you checked the AKC or CKC website? should be some general info on JH there too.


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## finley.

Thank you so much! Those threads are really helpful. Somehow I had no idea that you could take pet dogs to handling classes? I'm totally pumped to try them out with my current dog now. 

Yes I have checked the AKC website- very, very general things on there. 

P.S. - I'm kind of new, is Xeph like dogforums-famous or something? lol


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## elrohwen

I would start emailing breeders and see if any would be willing to sell you a show quality dog. You should get an idea about the mentoring aspect as you talk to them. 

I started showing as an adult, not a junior, and I fell into it. My breeder needed a home for the show quality puppy and I agreed to try showing him. I've made plenty of friends in the breed community, but I wouldn't call any my showing mentor exactly. I have learned more from trainers and professional handlers that I've taken classes and seminars with. I think you just need to get out there a bit and you will meet people as you go. Finding a good handling class is key though, and a breeder who will at least teach you to you groom (if it's a breed who requires that). 

One thing to keep in mind is that people might allow you to show their dogs once they know you. My breeder is older and her bad knees don't allow her to show the dogs herself. She has a nice junior handler show her dogs, and the girl has shown dogs for other breeders in the area. It's a good arrangement for them and allows the girl to get more experience.

And don't worry about mistakes. I've done all sorts of stupid things in the ring over the last year, including losing my shoe and not understanding where the judge wanted me to go.

And yes, Xeph is a regular here on DF and well known for her love of conformation and dog shows (and her beautiful GSDs!)  She has a lot of knowledge. 

ChaosIsAWeim is another great source for all things dog show. She shows her own dogs and handles for other owners/breeders.


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## animalcraker

Where are you located? 

If Afghans are for you and your prepared to make the commitment to the coat care then I might be able to direct you to some breeders. There are a number of breeders who will place high quality show dogs with juniors, simply because they want the dog shown and they can't keep every nice dog they breed. IMHO other than keeping up with bathing every 1-2 weeks my Afghans are way easier to keep and show than any other breed I've owned.

If you or anyone else has questions about the breed and showing them feel free to ask?


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## elrohwen

animalcracker, what else is involved in coat care? I have a long-ish coated breed and I don't take particularly good care of his coat (I don't bathe him that often, he gets burrs or mats and I just rip them out) but I'd like to learn more. It seems to be one of those things that's passed down from breeder to breeder, vs shared openly online. Unless it really is as simple as frequent bathing and trying not to rip hair out with brushing. I'd love to learn more!


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## finley.

elrohwen said:


> I would start emailing breeders and see if any would be willing to sell you a show quality dog. You should get an idea about the mentoring aspect as you talk to them.
> 
> I started showing as an adult, not a junior, and I fell into it. My breeder needed a home for the show quality puppy and I agreed to try showing him. I've made plenty of friends in the breed community, but I wouldn't call any my showing mentor exactly. I have learned more from trainers and professional handlers that I've taken classes and seminars with. I think you just need to get out there a bit and you will meet people as you go. Finding a good handling class is key though, and a breeder who will at least teach you to you groom (if it's a breed who requires that).
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that people might allow you to show their dogs once they know you. My breeder is older and her bad knees don't allow her to show the dogs herself. She has a nice junior handler show her dogs, and the girl has shown dogs for other breeders in the area. It's a good arrangement for them and allows the girl to get more experience.
> 
> And don't worry about mistakes. I've done all sorts of stupid things in the ring over the last year, including losing my shoe and not understanding where the judge wanted me to go.
> 
> And yes, Xeph is a regular here on DF and well known for her love of conformation and dog shows (and her beautiful GSDs!)  She has a lot of knowledge.
> 
> ChaosIsAWeim is another great source for all things dog show. She shows her own dogs and handles for other owners/breeders.


I've been looking for breeders for a while now, but I have found absolutely none in my area that have breeds I'm interested in.... or they do, and it's the dogs I'm not particularly interested in!  but that's what I'm planning to do as soon as I find some people. I tried sending an email to the breeder referral at BCOA, it's been about a week and still no response, and that's the only email I've sent so far... I'm pretty shy when it comes to these things and I'm afraid of sending a message to the wrong person or saying the wrong thing! 

that's really cool! I almost got into handling classes a whie ago, a saluki breeder actually pointed me in the direction but at the time I thought that needed a show dog to take to the classes so i never ended up doing it. but now that I know you can take any dog, I'll hopefully be starting with my girl fiona! and grooming looks so scary, lol. i (try to) groom my dogs from time to time and let's just say I don't really have the knack for it! yet, anyway 

definitely! that's really cool. hopefully I'll end up with an arrangement like that!


and animalcrackers, I'm located near Santa Barbara, CA  that would actually be amazing, if you're willing to do that for me!

I forgot to mention I'm allergic to most breeds. I can be around them/go to people's houses etc, I just can't live with a dog I'm allergic to or my life will be hell.. so I definitely have a question- I read somewhere that Afghans are fine for people with allergies. Do you know anyone with allergies to dogs, and how they are affected by your Afghans? 

I also have two small dogs, and I'm worried about how an Afghan would be around them. what's your experience with your hounds and small animals?


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## elrohwen

How far away are you looking? It's not unusual to have to go 5+ hours for a good breeder, especially if it's one of the more rare breeds.


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## finley.

We're willing to travel up to 6 hours or so, but ideally the breeder would be within 3 hours of me.


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## animalcraker

Well there's quite a few top breeders in So Cal including one in Santa Barbara, if you're willing to go as far as San Diego then you open yourself up to at least half a dozen breeders of quality Afghans. 

The other good news for you is that there's a dog show in Santa Barbara on August 22-24, including the very popular breeders showcase on the 23. Jack Bradshaw is the superintendent that runs almost all the dog shows in So Cal. Here's the link for their list of past and upcoming shows http://jbradshaw.com/shows.html. This would be a great opportunity for you to meet the breeds and breeders in person. Feel free to talk to people, for the breeds you're interesting in almost everyone will have done their grooming the night before and should just be doing a pre judging brush out and fluff. With our afghans were constantly multitasking at dog shows grooming, waiting ringside, posing dogs for pictures, discussing breed traits and pedigrees, etc. often times were doing all those things at once. An interested prospective owner is never a bother to a quality breeder as long as they allow us to get into the ring when were called and willing to continue the conversation thru email or phone if it's late in the day.


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## finley.

I knew there were a few near me, I just had no idea whether or not the dogs were high quality. It's hard when breeders don't have websites, so that's good to know haha!

Yup! I was actually planning to go to that show. And I check Jack Bradshaw pretty regularly, a saluki breeder actually showed it to me a few years ago and it's been my go-to website for shows ever since  Thanks for the tips! I never really know when a good time to talk to people is/if I'm annoying them or not. 

didn't know if you saw these by the way!:


finley. said:


> I forgot to mention I'm allergic to most breeds. I can be around them/go to people's houses etc, I just can't live with a dog I'm allergic to or my life will be hell.. so I definitely have a question- I read somewhere that Afghans are fine for people with allergies. Do you know anyone with allergies to dogs, and how they are affected by your Afghans?
> 
> I also have two small dogs, and I'm worried about how an Afghan would be around them. what's your experience with your hounds and small animals?


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## animalcraker

finley. said:


> I forgot to mention I'm allergic to most breeds. I can be around them/go to people's houses etc, I just can't live with a dog I'm allergic to or my life will be hell.. so I definitely have a question- I read somewhere that Afghans are fine for people with allergies. Do you know anyone with allergies to dogs, and how they are affected by your Afghans?
> 
> I also have two small dogs, and I'm worried about how an Afghan would be around them. what's your experience with your hounds and small animals?


Yes Afghans are considered hypoallergenic. I'm not allergic to dogs, but I'm sensitive to dust and dirt. With my afghans they stay quite clean and most dirt and debris either don't stick or fall out of their coat rather quickly. I can smoosh my face in their coats right after they come in from playing, however with my other dogs the dirt penetrates through their coat and I have to avoid cuddling for a few hours after their playtime outside.

With smaller dogs and cats it really depends on the individual animals. If they run a sighthound will chase. My cat will play and rough house with all of my dogs including the Afghans. As soon has he runs they will start to chase, but once he turns around they go into a play bow and encourage him to chase them. If he's just walking around they could care less about them. On the flip side of that my Dachshund doesn't like to play with the Afghans. They have never hurt him, but he doesn't like the look of large fluffy paws flying at him. Whenever they're out he either goes into his crate or jumps up on my lap, but because he's not running the Afghans don't care about him. Just be sure to supervise their play together and give the little ones a safe place to get away if needed.


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## animalcraker

elrohwen said:


> animalcracker, what else is involved in coat care? I have a long-ish coated breed and I don't take particularly good care of his coat (I don't bathe him that often, he gets burrs or mats and I just rip them out) but I'd like to learn more. It seems to be one of those things that's passed down from breeder to breeder, vs shared openly online. Unless it really is as simple as frequent bathing and trying not to rip hair out with brushing. I'd love to learn more!


First off let me preface this by saying that I enjoy grooming and find it very relaxing.

IMHO maintaining an Afghan hound in full coat is rather easy as long as you don't stray away from the commitment or try to cut corners. The most important thing with drop coats is to NEVER brush a dry or dirty coat! A dry or dirty coat is brittle & breaks off when brushed and a dirty coat will damage your grooming equipment which will perpetuate the coat damage will every groom thereafter until they are cleaned. Only brush them when they are wet right after a bath. Wet hair is elastic and more forgiving to brushing and de-matting. 

With my girls they get weekly to bi-weekly baths and brush outs depending on the show season and how dirty they are. After their bath & brush out they are left alone to air dry. Blow dryers, especially those with a heat element, will damage and dry out the coat preventing the natural oils from developing. The only time I blow dry is to help straighten the coat for a show. Oils will coat the hair shaft and protect it from breaking. Some people will use coconut oil or some sort of conditioning oil after shampooing to protect the coat. The only problem with using oils is that they will allow dirt to develop quicker, meaning more baths, and you need a good clarifying shampoo to get it all out. If they've developed a mat in between their baths I leave it until it's time to groom them next. Foreign debris are left in until the next bath as well unless it posses and immediate risk to harming them. If I must pull out a foreign object between baths then I soak the area in a diluted conditioning spray before brushing it out. 

Beyond the standard bathing, I use a stripping knife or pumice stone as needed to help clean out any fuzz in the saddle, trim nails every 3 weeks, wipe out ears after every bath, and scale tartar as needed.

For those obnoxious burrs you need to pull the hair away from the burr, not the bur away from the hair. Pulling on the burr just gets the hair tighter entwined in their little pokey parts. If you hold onto the burr itself and pull the hair away bit by bit you'll find it to be faster, easier, less damaging, and less painful. 

And do not ever cut matts out, unless they are so severe to cause extreme pain without cutting. Cutting matts out will create 2 different lengths of hair that will rub against each other as your dog moves causing more matts to form. Matts are like tiny hurricanes, the center to relatively empty. You need to pull it apart from the center, it's like separating the layers of a quilt. Just pinch at the center from opposite sides and gently pull it apart till you can separate out smaller bits.

What kind of products and equipment are you using on your boy?


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## So Cavalier

> A dry or dirty coat is brittle & breaks off when brushed and a dirty coat will damage your grooming equipment which will perpetuate the coat damage will every groom thereafter until they are cleaned. Only brush them when they are wet right after a bath. Wet hair is elastic and more forgiving to brushing and de-matting.


Interesting....I thought you needed to remove mats and do a good brushing prior to bathing because bathing would tighten mats. I feel better now because I have never been good about doing a really good pre-brushing.


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## finley.

thanks again for all of the info animalcraker. I've been doing a lot of research and I have a strong feeling that an Afghan could be a great fit for me. hopefully all works out, it would be a dream to own one!


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## animalcraker

So Cavalier said:


> Interesting....I thought you needed to remove mats and do a good brushing prior to bathing because bathing would tighten mats. I feel better now because I have never been good about doing a really good pre-brushing.


The matts will tighten if you allow them to try after getting wet. When the hair is wet it has a higher elasticity and shrinks as it drys. This same issue happens when you get your hair cut by someone inexperienced; they'll cut your to the perfect length when it's wet but once they blow dry it, it ends up way too short.

If you have a large matt or one in a sensitive area try adding a bit more conditioner to it to help you brush glide through the hair.

On a side note: I leave burrs and sticks in the hair as well and work them out during or just after the bath.


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## finley.

...........


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## finley.

ignore last post, that one was an accident.

an update though- i have my first handling and grooming lesson today. i am going to a new friend's house (i met her at the show last weekend, and approached her about her pup! we've been e-mailing since) and i will see how my allergies are around her four Afghans, then we will groom and go to the park where she we will show me to handle. in November I'm taking her dog to a match! everything is working out and I couldn't be happier.


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## elrohwen

That's so awesome! I'm glad you found someone so nice to mentor you and get you started. Definitely let us know how the grooming goes.


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## JazzyTheSiberian

Good luck! I really hope all goes. Hopefully, your allergies won't be too bad.

Juniors Showmanship was always something I was interested in,& I still am.So, I'm hrskpirs


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## finley.

it went really well, I was only there for about an hour. we talked a lot about the breed over some lemonade and then we went outside and she gave me some pointers for handling and let me practice with her dog. she was probably just trying to be nice, but she told me I'm a natural and I am very graceful! woohoo lol. 

she said to e-mail her about how my allergies are within the next two days, because usually my symptoms don't show up until the night of or the day after. if I'm healthy, then she'll continue to help me pursue this and she'll be connecting me with a really good handler that can teach me a little more than she can, so I'm excited! from there, I'll start with a match in November and then in January I will hopefully participate in some real shows. which would be amazing. and if everything goes exactly as planned, I hope to be getting my own puppy sometime next year! 

so let's just wait and see how my allergies are! i will be SOOO grateful if all turns out okay, because that would mean my lifelong dream coming true lol


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## JazzyTheSiberian

finley. said:


> it went really well, I was only there for about an hour. we talked a lot about the breed over some lemonade and then we went outside and she gave me some pointers for handling and let me practice with her dog. she was probably just trying to be nice, but she told me I'm a natural and I am very graceful! woohoo lol.
> 
> she said to e-mail her about how my allergies are within the next two days, because usually my symptoms don't show up until the night of or the day after. if I'm healthy, then she'll continue to help me pursue this and she'll be connecting me with a really good handler that can teach me a little more than she can, so I'm excited! from there, I'll start with a match in November and then in January I will hopefully participate in some real shows. which would be amazing. and if everything goes exactly as planned, I hope to be getting my own puppy sometime next year!
> 
> so let's just wait and see how my allergies are! i will be SOOO grateful if all turns out okay, because that would mean my lifelong dream coming true lol


Yay! That's great  I'm so excited for you.

Maybe, talk to your doctor about allergies? I know a few people in who are allergic to cats,& the doctor prescribed allergy meds. There are some other alternatives too.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs

Congrats to you! I so wanted to do this kind of thing when I was younger but didn't have the capabilities. I hope that your allergies are just fine and everything works out with your Afghan dream.


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## finley.

I take about 4 different pills for eczema and allergies, as well as probiotics every day. My allergist said the only thing we can really do at this point is allergy shots, which I hope to be starting pretty soon. It's a rigorous process though, I'll have to go in 5 times a week for shots for the first few months! I'm allergic to dust, pollen, cats, dogs, most small animals (guinea pigs, rabbits, chinchillas etc) and i have anaphylaxis with horses! And with allergies I also get asthma and really bad eczema :/ 

but still, so far so good. I've had absolutely no symptoms of allergies which is crazy! this has never happened before, I usually go home from a dog owner's house sneezing and itchy with a puffy face and red eyes lol.


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## JazzyTheSiberian

finley. said:


> I take about 4 different pills for eczema and allergies, as well as probiotics every day. My allergist said the only thing we can really do at this point is allergy shots, which I hope to be starting pretty soon. It's a rigorous process though, I'll have to go in 5 times a week for shots for the first few months! I'm allergic to dust, pollen, cats, dogs, most small animals (guinea pigs, rabbits, chinchillas etc) and i have anaphylaxis with horses! And with allergies I also get asthma and really bad eczema :/
> 
> but still, so far so good. I've had absolutely no symptoms of allergies which is crazy! this has never happened before, I usually go home from a dog owner's house sneezing and itchy with a puffy face and red eyes lol.


Eek. I'm so sorry you have to deal with so many allergies. Though, I'm glad your not having any issues. Sending vibes that you won't have any issues.


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## finley.

thank you! I'm glad too! I feel like this is meant to be haha.


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## Damon'sMom

I just wanted to comment and wish you luck. I hope everything is going well. Did you ever get a reaction from going to her house? When I worked at the animal hospital about a year after I started I became allergic to cats, most small animals, dust and a few other things. And I had lived with all of these animals all of my life. Rabbits would cause my throat to start closing up! I opted for the shots and had to get them 3-4 times a week for 4 months. I am now down to once a week and hope to go to once every other week soon. They have helped so much and I am no longer effected by these animals while on the shots.


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## finley.

the first time I didn't have a reaction. a little bit of redness and welting where the dog licked me but nothing else. I went back a second time on Saturday and my eczema got pretty bad when I left but nothing a shower, some Atarax, and Fluocinonide couldn't fix lol. I experience these with my own dogs as well but we don't have carpet and I don't really snuggle them and let them lick me usually! so I'm fine. Wow! That's so good to know that the shots helped you, I've been really considering them lately. I plan to one day make a career out of handling (that's my dream!) but without allergy shots it will probably be impossible. My allergies at dog shows are just terrible. But I'm really glad to hear they helped you. Hopefully if/when I get my shots my eczema and asthma will get better too, that would be a dream come true lol


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## elrohwen

I'll put in a plug for allergy shots. I've been on them off and on for 14 years and they have helped me immensely. I don't get horrible reactions to most allergens, but I get a mild reaction that turns into sinus infections and requires a lot of meds and doctor visits (and surgeries). When I'm on shots I stay healthy. 

I do get dog and cat shots. I have never noticed any dog allergies in my life, though I test positive. I do notice cat allergies and I haven't had more than a tiny reaction to cats since being on shots. Most of the things I'm allergic to are plants and mold. They definitely are worth considering! Most places will start you at once a week and then to go monthly after a few months.


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## animalcraker

Congratulations, hopefully it all works out for you. Who are you going to be getting your pup from?


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## finley.

I had my second lesson yesterday. my mentor/georgie's owner had this lady come and sort of lead the way since she's a really experienced handler and we went over gait, triangle, and free stacking. 

i'm horrible at the whole triangle thing. i'll get it eventually though! also georgie (dog I'm working with) is EXTREMELY stubborn and she was an absolute nightmare yesterday. she's not my dog so i'm scared to be too harsh on her, but I really need to start being more assertive :/ she just does not listen or care lol.

i had a great time though, both of the ladies were clapping for me and they told me that I was made for Afghan hounds because my gait is incredible!!! which made me really happy. they said that I just "float" and that Georgie and I move like one unit that it's amazing it was only my 3rd time or whatever. hearing this really boosted my confidence! 

next tuesday we will work on hand stacking and a couple of other things I need help with. next saturday I think Georgie's owner is going to show me to groom.

I've talked to a couple breeders from California but I'm not totally sure who I'll be getting a puppy from. my mentor recommended a breeder in BC (Canada) but yeah I'm not sure yet. it's a big decision! when the time comes where I'm totally ready, she said she would be happy to help me find the right person to get my puppy from though.


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## animalcraker

I just read your pm today. I've been on vacation for the past 2 weeks so I didn't even notice it until today, lol. Anyway you've found yourself a good place to start with the breed and showing. I know what you mean about Georgie, she can be a bit strong willed with strangers as all afghans tend to be. Just try your best to be confident and don't let her get away with anything. Afghans enjoy taking advantage of their handlers. I swear sometimes that they're having their own competition on who they can embarrass the most. Despite all our training they will poop, pee, scream, jump, and literally do back flips just to make us all look stupid. They're also one of the few breeds where owner handlers can have an advantage because they have a bond and respect for their owners.


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## gwd

I'm happy to help you out ...........I don't show afghans but I do show borzoi and greyhounds......... so the handling is the same.


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## finley.

some lil updates:

3 weeks ago I went to one of the burbank shows and I was a bucket bitch haha. I helped groom and met lots of new people and it was really fun.

2 weeks ago i went to my mentor's house and helped her bathe and brush out one of her dogs. i've helped her with lil grooming type things before but I've never experienced the whole start-to-finish process. it's a lot of work! lol. she also gave me some really good books about the breed so I've been looking over those!

in 2 weeks I will -hopefully- be participating in a match so that's exciting! i've been taking handling classes twice a week and I'm improving SO much. it's just crazy what a few weeks and some good teachers can do  stacking is still the hardest thing for me but I'm starting to really get the hang of it.


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## elrohwen

That's awesome! I'm so so impressed by how you've just gone out and gotten involved in what you wanted to do, and you're doing so well at it. I want to see pics of dogs and videos of your handling!


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## finley.

thanks so much for your support elrohwen!

I am entered in junior showmanship at the Ventura shows coming up! very nervous but excited!  
I'll post more pictures and videos as soon as I can!


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## animalcraker

Are you going to be going to the show in Palm Springs this weekend? There's majors in both sexes, which means all the handlers will be on their game trying to earn those points. It would be a wonderful opportunity for you to watch some of the nations top professional handlers go head to head and compare their showing styles.


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## JazzyTheSiberian

So, how's the handling going? Any updates?


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## finley.

ah! I never get on here anymore, so sorry! I didn't end up going to Palm Springs, i really wanted to though. 

I have a match in a few hours so I'm about to get ready for that right now, and I have my very first shows this weekend! should be really fun, I just got my outfits and everything and I'm really excited! everything has worked out SO well these past few months and I'm so grateful for everyone who has helped me, especially my mentor. I couldn't be happier.


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