# Red Heeler



## bedgar (May 4, 2011)

We have a new member of the family! She is a beautiful show quality 12 week old Red Heeler we got 4 weeks ago. Very smart, she learned several tricks right off the bat like sit, high five, and fetch. She has been getting better about aggression with constant correction about nipping but seems to have come to a plateau with regards to her behavior. Almost seems like she has learned the "game". I've read that harsh treatment can create an aggressive dog in this breed and the breeder told me to be relentless in correcting her nipping and aggressiveness. The constant correction and discipline for bad behavior without much result seems a little harsh. If she is not responding much to us and we continue with discipline measures [firm voice "no mam", physically stopping behavior, and last resort a light pop on the nose (no pain just attention getter) and always replacing object of aggression with chew toy] do we risk frustrating her into being "bad" or unhappy dog. Seems like we are constantly correcting her and not loving her enough. Is this the harsh treatment I read about or an intelligent dog being stubborn and needed discipline? Don't get me wrong she is loved and good for the most part but when she is "fired up" she is determined. Maybe her fast learning early created an impossible standard in my mind for her to live up to. My understanding is we HAVE to get the nipping under control early because they can get "mouthy" quick.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I would say you really need to stop using the word "aggression". It is a rarity for a puppy to display aggression. Sounds to me like this puppy, like most ACDs, is highly energetic and active, and like most herders, is quite mouthy. Please don't pop your puppy on the nose. Pain or no, it solves nothing.

Redirecting her is better. Yelping like a puppy when she nips and throwing her a toy to chase is a much better option. If she does not quit, pick her up and place her in her kennel for 5 minutes, then let her out again. She should learn right quick that biting gets her nowhere but kenneled.


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## DougGeneration (Apr 28, 2011)

I'd have to agree with Xeph. Reinforcement, whether positive or negative, is always the key to control your dogs behavior. That is when you don't want to opt for other method though.


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## Puddin's Training Tips (Apr 9, 2011)

Please stop with the harsh corrections right now. She is not "aggressive" now, but you will certainly create an aggressive or neurotic dog if you continue. Time outs are actually better executed with you leaving the room rather than putting her away for two reasons
1. The crate should always be a fun place, not a place for punishment
2. Many pet parents move their pets to a time out area when they are frustrated; they do it out of anger and it can be scary for the dog. 
When the dog nips, calmy walk out of the room. Stay gone just a couple of minutes (make sure it is a safe room where the pup can't hurt himself) and then come right back. If you are gone too long, the pup will forget why you were gone.
More details below.

- Stop all harsh training methods right now. ACD are quiet sensitive. Well no dog should be subjected to harsh training methods. There are alternatives.

A great book to help you get started with positive training methods that actually work :
Family Friendly Dog Training: http://amzn.to/hG1hhI
Another great book: Before and After Getting Your New Puppy: http://amzn.to/euupAL

A great youtube channel that features all positive training: http://www.youtube.com/kikopup

More details on nipping: http://blog.mysanantonio.com/latrenda/2011/03/puppy-nipping/

Harsh training methods hurt your dog and hurt your relationship with your dog: http://blog.mysanantonio.com/latrenda/2011/05/when-someone-says-its-doesnt-hurt-it-probably-does/

Video on nipping from kikopup


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## bedgar (May 4, 2011)

Thank you, That’s the part that bothers me anyway. I've never used kennel for training till this puppy. So that never came to mind. I've gotten tons of advice and quite a bit said the nose can be the only way to get attention for some dogs like ACD's (some respectable folks on this subject not Billy Bob from down the road). I don’t like it though. I'm going to try the kennel and we will be interviewing trainers next week. Aggression is prob not the right word, maybe a rough determination with wife and teenage daughter but surprisingly calm and submissive with me and 5 yr old son. Like when he (5yr old) grabs toy she has she lets go right away for him to throw it but with daughter she snatches it back or starts jumping up on her before she has chance to throw??? I'm a little uncomfortable with any negative reinforcement on her because she is so sweet sometimes. Even putting her in kennel at night seems a little mean but then again I've never used a kennel with previous dogs. Thanks for yoour comments. I will put them to use.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> 1. The crate should always be a fun place, not a place for punishment


Well, I disagree with you. Unless the dog being treated poorly, the crate is a neutral area. If you pick up the dog quietly with no fuss the moment play gets too rough, all the kennel means is that the puppy has gone too far. It doesn't maker crating the dog hard later as long as you keep up other positive associations with it.

Leaving the room does no good because the puppy can, and generally will follow, and I will not leave a puppy unattended in a room.

I use this method with all of my dogs, and all of mine readily kennel themselves when asked (or of their own accord). They get fed in their crates, get cookies in their crates, and sleep in their crates.



> 2. Many pet parents move their pets to a time out area when they are frustrated; they do it out of anger and it can be scary for the dog.


*shudders* Pet Parents :-/ I'm a dog owner, not a pet parent. And of COURSE people move the dog to a time out area when they're frustrated! They NEED a BREAK! It's not scary for the dog if you don't yell and scream at it. If things are matter of fact and quiet with no harsh words or excessive force, the dog won't be affected by it at all.


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## qingcong (Oct 26, 2009)

The benefit of leaving the room is that your ability to manipulate negative consequences is immediate. The dog learns right off the bat without question, that this behavior gets this result. If you have to lead the dog into the crate, the feedback is unclear, since you have to lead the dog all the way to the kennel. The dog doesn't necessarily get "bite human, go to kennel", the sequence is more like, "bite human, take a walk, go to kennel". It can work, but the feedback isn't as clear as the human getting up and leaving. If the dog insists on following you after you get up, then kenneling may be your only option. Whichever method you choose really depends on the individual dog.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

bedgar said:


> We have a new member of the family! She is a beautiful show quality 12 week old Red Heeler we got 4 weeks ago. Very smart, she learned several tricks right off the bat like sit, high five, and fetch. She has been getting better about aggression with constant correction about nipping but seems to have come to a plateau with regards to her behavior. Almost seems like she has learned the "game". I've read that harsh treatment can create an aggressive dog in this breed and the breeder told me to be relentless in correcting her nipping and aggressiveness. The constant correction and discipline for bad behavior without much result seems a little harsh. If she is not responding much to us and we continue with discipline measures [firm voice "no mam", physically stopping behavior, and last resort a light pop on the nose (no pain just attention getter) and always replacing object of aggression with chew toy] do we risk frustrating her into being "bad" or unhappy dog. Seems like we are constantly correcting her and not loving her enough. Is this the harsh treatment I read about or an intelligent dog being stubborn and needed discipline? Don't get me wrong she is loved and good for the most part but when she is "fired up" she is determined. Maybe her fast learning early created an impossible standard in my mind for her to live up to. My understanding is we HAVE to get the nipping under control early because they can get "mouthy" quick.


Find a good, positive reinforcement based trainer. The thing with a really strong willed breed like the Australian Cattle Dog is that if you get in a battle of wills with them, you better be able to live the "Survivor" motto: Outwit, Outlast, Outplay. All the time. And that can be an awful lot of work to be more determined than the dog. I've met quite a few Cattledogs with resource guarding issues, and with that, the more you fight wih the dog, the worse and more dangerous the behavior will become. If she's grumpy about you around her stuff, a great book is Jean Donaldson's "Mine" and a great resource about curing mouthiness without fighting with your dog is this blog by Ian Dunbar: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teaching-bite-inhibition. As you will see from these sources, it's a lot safer and easier (not to mention more effective) to show the dog how doing what you want benefits her instead of allowing yourself to be drawn into a battle of wills.


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## bedgar (May 4, 2011)

I'm sorry, my original post really made her behavior seem worse and our reaction to bad behavior seem way harsher than it really is. She is a sweet dog and she has a ball most of the time and the popping of the nose is more like quickly blocking her from the object of her attention. I know ACD's are sensitive and that is why I asked the question. I know there is a fine line between letting them become an agressive dog (if they are so inclined) and creating one by my own doing. I feel like I need to let up a little but I've been told not to let up too much. I like the kennel idea.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

bedgar said:


> I'm sorry, my original post really made her behavior seem worse and our reaction to bad behavior seem way harsher than it really is. She is a sweet dog and she has a ball most of the time and the popping of the nose is more like quickly blocking her from the object of her attention. I know ACD's are sensitive and that is why I asked the question. I know there is a fine line between letting them become an agressive dog (if they are so inclined) and creating one by my own doing. I feel like I need to let up a little but I've been told not to let up too much. I like the kennel idea.


Well, she sounds like a strong-willed, active, intelligent herding breed puppy. Popping on the nose (or any quick actions around her face) can stimulate biting. It's not a matter of "letting up" or not letting up too much. If you create two way communication between the two of you by using a marker, and you create clear rules and boundaries, you will have a great dog. Negative attention is still attention. Learn to reward what you like and keep what you don't like from being rewarded.


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## Pynzie (Jan 15, 2010)

Not engaging in physical corrections absolutely does not equate to "letting up." I definitely think that you need to set some clear boundaries with her and do not become lax with your training. Nipping and other unwanted behaviors should not be tolerated (or you will be sending mixed signals), but you should train with the methods described above. You should look into NILIF (nothing in life is free). There is a sticky about it in the dog training section. Implementing this in your life is a good way to be a successful benevolent leader, as it shows that you are in charge of all the good stuff in the dogs life and it also helps set boundaries. For example, you mentioned that she jumps up on your daughter and grabs for the toy. She should learn that this kind of behavior does not get her what she wants, aka you should never give her the toy when she is acting like that, as rewarding her with the toy would only reinforce the unwanted behavior. She only gets the toy when she has all four feet on the ground.


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