# Bark Collar Recommendations



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I was just wondering if anybody could give some recommendations on a good bark collar?


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Behaviorists rated the different collars for their effectiveness on controlling barking and the Citronella Collar came out on top. However, even that one was only effective in 80%of the cases.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Tri-tronics bark limiter with a cinch it collar.


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## chriley58 (Mar 9, 2009)

We have used the Petsafe brand collar on our now-deceased yellow lab with good results. First bark gets a warning beep, then six levels of correction. We currently use an ultrasonic unit in the house for our aussie. It emits a loud tone when they bark, interrupting her barking. She's not a constant barker, but if she hears someone outside the house she will bark and when we aren't home and can't correct her I don't want her annoying neighbors. I don't know if it would work for a serious barker. They also have ones that look like birdhouses that you can use in your yard.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Thanks.

This isn't for an outdoor nuisance barker....I'm trying to cure my obedience dog of a bad (and obnoxious) habit.

Conventional methods have not worked thus far, and I'm going back to the bark collar to try again


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## sparkle (Mar 3, 2009)

Interesting that the cit spray works so often as I don't believe it has ever worked on the 10 or 12 dogs that I have used one on??? Dang ... Having used bark collars to some degree of success and sometimes quickly I can tell you that I have experienced many backlash behaviors/negative associations that have resulted in doing great physical/mental harm to some dogs and I will not use one again unless it is a life or death situation for the dog. there are other ways that are just as effective and then again can fail also. 

just another perspective in the pot.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I've seen the perspective. No conventional method thus far has worked in getting my dog to stop barking through his OB routine.

But please, do tell of these effective methods (I would bet I've already tried it).


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## sparkle (Mar 3, 2009)

Since I have many dogs on the property and many things going on to include trials or public workshops that might be going on.. excessive barking can be a liability in most circumstances and I must teach ALL the dogs about my boundaries to barking and I appreciate that others have different opinions and situations on this issue. Many of my dogs perform work such as herding (trials and real work), SAR,therapy,service dog,obedience demos,ect,ect along with being in doors pets .I also usually have several client dogs in for training/rehab/foster/boarding which must be and are also conditioned not to bark for the most part.



I start with setting the dog up and conditioning the dog to a verbal command in various environments to include heavy distractions so that he will learn to stop barking at my displeasure..

I like to teach the dog that it can be okay to bark under some circumstances and thus why I do not prefer the shock/spray collar approach and I want the dog to know where any corrections are coming from. I do allow for some alarm barking but rarely and of course a healthly level of play barking. My livestock guardian dogs may bark at anytime day or night and are paid to do so as much as possible. ;')

The basic process is to determine a consequence that is negative and starts out relatively small as a aversive to act as a "true correction" in close quarters or while on leash under light distractions then working with heavy distractions for example other animals,vehicles,sounds,people,things,vibration,just about anything that I can come up with that might trigger the dogs reaction to bark so that I can use as a proofing exercise/situation.

It (the aversive) could be my voice, a touch,leash correction , a sound, or even a object sometimes for some dogs such as metal pan (the pan method) tossing the pan hitting the floor/wall when the dog barks at various points always using a clear consistant low keyed calm voice association marker. It can be something different for each dog depending how each dog reacts.
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I then work on off leash control in having my dog stop barking on my command then carry on the process in the outdoor environment both on and off leash..I have connected a radio to the dogs collar to some success and failure, mostly failure. Many of my dogs perform work such as herding (trials and real work), SAR,therapy,service dog,ect,ect and different things work/fail depending on the venue that the dog is being exposed to. 



None of my many dogs are allowed to bark excessively outside and many times not at all while kenneled or in the house. depending on the circumstances. BASICALLY I use a variation/host of aversives along with good timing,clarity,consistancy and presence of calm mind and throwing in some postive reinforcement at the right times is icing on the cake.

If I where going to use a electronic collar I would use a remote collar only after/along with conditioning with some of the things that I mentioned as part of establishing a basic relation ship/understanding and then using the manual collar (under clear association) that has vibration and/or tone and nick/tap capability in addition to the steady shock capability.

And of course I suggest these things only if the use of mostly positive reinforcement has failed to provide resolution.

So I might suggest the price of a collar with range could be substituted with those other features thus not needing but a smaller less bulky unit. Water resistance is always nice even if you might nopt use it outside much. 
gundog.com seems to have the best prices most often when I do research in pricing and selection.

good luck as I know GSD's can be a challenge in this regard. LOL most of the K9 handlers I know in law inforcement love to have a high strung barking dog and cringe when I speak this way.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

I bought the Tri Tronics Bark Limiter and it's the shizzle. However, my guy was just doing the bratty "OMG YOUR LEAVING ME OUT OF YOUR LIFE" type barking. He only ever wore it when he went in his crate, and he barks just fine when the doorbell rings. I think what your looking to do could cause some confusion for the dog. You give a command and the dog barks from excitement (while complying) and gets a stim; how is he to know that it's the barking that got him popped?

You'd also have to be careful not to have any other jewelry on him while wearing the bark collar. I'm told--and not willing to test the hypothesis--that the jingling of metal choke chains and dog tags can activate the stimulation.

I had to work something like this out with the Rustic One early on, but not an identical situation to yours. Rusty would start yapping on long sit-stays and down-stays right at the 3 minute mark, but without moving out of position. It's like the dog has an internal Brietling chrongraph. Anyway, I would just re-give the command and simultaneously correct with the prong collar, then give the command again. It would go like: "Sit!/pop, Sit!" The only time I would correct that way, during movement, was when he was walking at heel. 

I think you'd be better off conditioning to an operator-activated remote collar, if you go electric, but it would take some strategerizing [sic] to work out the cure. If you were to send the dog out for a retrieve, and tagged him with the e-collar for barking, you'd almost certainly break his momentum--if not stop him in his tracks. If he barks while heeling, sitting, or down-ing, then I think you could go back to those commands and get him working silently. That might just get the message across. If he's barking while working away from you, you'll want to be extremely careful how you handle corrections.

Please excuse if my post is disjointed and incoherent. I just had the day from hell. Too much coffee, not enough sleep, fighting traffic, and negotiating a Kafkaesque bureaucracy (think: DMV, but staffed by slow witted Sheevra).


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

That still really doesn't help me...

My dog barks when he's in drive an we're doing formal work (obedience, rally, agility, etc). He doesn't just bark in every day situations, it's when he's working hard.


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## sparkle (Mar 3, 2009)

Xeph said:


> My dog barks when he's in drive an we're doing formal work (obedience, rally, agility, etc). He doesn't just bark in every day situations, it's when he's working hard.


With such intensity/focus/desire/ for a better word it might require a above average shock value to alter your dogs behavior and then I would be concerned with the ramifications . Many times I have experienced dogs who do not respond much to the highest level setting on even the best of standard shock collars and require a special model from the manufacturer. 


It certainly would be a experiment that could backfire and if you think it is worth it than who's to say.... Maybe some things are just not worth changing possibly. I have worked with a lot of GSD's, Mals, Shelties, and other dogs who had a "bad" habit of barking while working/performing and somehow I always found a resolution in drastically reducing the barking but yours sounds like a tough one...

please let us know if the shock collar works....


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

I think you are taking the right approach, Xeph. Go for it and let us know how it works out for ya!


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

That excitment barking is a tough one. One of my friends competes in obedience at a very high level with his Sheltie and he started barking on the fast pace (points lost for barking) and they were no longer getting placements (he's working on another OTCH).

IMO, it's a mistake to directly 'correct' that display of drive/enthusiasm (the barking). 

Try taking it down a notch for awhile. Lower the intensity level to a non-barking level.
In my friends case he stopped doing an all out fast sprint. He needed to nip it in the bud before it became a serious habit and at the 'slower' pace the barking was reduced considerably and often had no barking at all. Gradually, he built the speed back up but, they still struggle with that barking demon on occassion.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

TooneyDogs said:


> Try taking it down a notch for awhile. Lower the intensity level to a non-barking level.


That's one of those thing that I thought I was a genius for figuring out, until I learned that lots of people already knew it. Slow down a fast dog; speed up a slow dog. It seems to do more to remind the dog who works for whom, than corrections do. Sometimes anyway.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Try taking it down a notch for awhile. Lower the intensity level to a non-barking level.


The problem is, it doesn't seem to matter to this dog what "notch" of intensity it is. Anybody that knows him knows that if he's working in ANY competition capacity...he barks (Keechak knows this very well...she's seen him quite frequently).

He barks if we move slowly (Frustration, it's boring), he barks if we move quickly (excitement, "I like this"), he vocalizes in some manner.

Keechak has seen me work this dog in *painstakingly slow* motions...he still vocalizes, and we get excused from the ring. The pace "isn't what matters" and is all at the same time...he'll vocalize no matter the speed.

The only exception I get is when he's doing his service work, but he's not in drive then.

And yes, part of the problem is that he barks WHILE performing the action I've asked for...but I can't have him barking in the ring.

People suggested puppy pushups. I once spent *40 minutes* with him doing these until I finally got a SILENT down. I threw his reward and ended on that.

It did not transfer over into the next lesson...another 40 minutes of "Sitz" *BARK* "Platz" *BARK*

"Shorten the sessions."

Well, how? I can't reward him for not doing what he's supposed to do.

The reason I was considering a bark collar and not a remote controlled e-collar is due to two things.

#1 I'm afraid of my timing being off with the barking...this isn't like with the rabbits.
#2 I know that he IS going to bark, but WHEN is the issue, and I get nervous and amped up, and get trigger happy...that is not fair to my dog. With the rabbits his response was much more obviously measurable.

Heeling is when the barking is the most random. He can begin silently, but start whining and vocalizing right way...other times he vocalizes on the first step...I've never been able to work him for more than a couple minutes before he starts making noise.

This is not a dog I can put up and say "Sorry! Lesson's done! I'm working someone else!" This results in all out SCREAMING (Keechak has seen this too x.x).

Physical correction by me does not stop the vocalizing, it just changes it from "OMG WORK IS SO AWESOME!!!!!" to "Why are you being so mean to me!?" All I get is different tones and sounds.

Removing stimuli such as food and toys also makes little difference. If anything, I get MORE barking.

I work him inside and outside of his comfort zones...his big issue STILL seems to be not knowing how to control his drive.

We have done plain water.
We have done the binaca.
We have done the lemon juice.
We have done the vinegar.
We have done the "exploding can" (barely got an ear twitch)

This is the downside to having an "unflappable" dog....makes it a lot harder to break bad habits.

Also, I would like to note that OVERALL I get the most vocalizing when my dog must come towards me or be near me.

I have silent send outs, but unless his mouth is full (dumbbell) I get a vocal return, especially if I ask for something to be "fixed". I get a lot of mouth on the sit at the halt, and a lot on the send to finish.

Here's a look at his body language to give those that don't know him well an idea....transfer this position into vocalizations, and see what you hear in your head...this is what he looks like, no matter the pace, no matter the handler.










Very pushed forward, very "So ready, readyreadyreadyreadyreadyready....watchingwatchingreadywatchingreadyready...."

This is his position after I corrected to get a more "upright" sit, but it did not change his demeanor....he shot out like gang busters after that dumbbell and came back the same.









There is nothing in his posture here that says "easy". It is power, and speed, and admittedly, much as I love this dog, a lot of the time I feel ill equipped to deal with it, because I don't know how to control it, which means I can't teach him to control it,










This is the sit I got on the return....still a very eager pushed forward posture, ears forward. It is a crooked sit, but it was acceptable because I was only looking for him to keep holding the dumbbell at the time, which he did.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

no input on the bark collar..

was just think you should start a new kind of obedience trial...chatterbox obedience...then you'd win everytime. 

I dunno..maybe you could shove your hand in his mouth everytime he barks...but that would quite possibly hurt....but maybe he'd be like "oh noes! bit mommy!" and stop...its late and im rambling...just wanted to offer a bit of rambling goofball kind of support....stewpid dawgs...


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## Maggies_Mum (May 15, 2009)

I personally wouldn't use the shock type at all. I've heard and seen good things from the cit. spray collar (mind you they were all smaller dogs, not sure if that would have any bearing) I've heard the sonic collar where it makes the sharp pitch noise is a waste of money, however have never seen one used.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Xeph said:


> Physical correction by me does not stop the vocalizing, it just changes it from "OMG WORK IS SO AWESOME!!!!!" to "Why are you being so mean to me!?" All I get is different tones and sounds.


An e-collar or bark collar merely administers physical correction at a distance. If physical correction doesn't work, then it doesn't work. Some dogs' vocalizing will increase with correction--big time.

You might want to try a vibrating-pager type collar. It might just interrupt the behavior enough to break the cycle. Buy one from a vendor with a 100% no-questions-asked return policy, and you can send it back if it doesn't make a positive difference in a couple of sessions.

The other thing to remind ourselves is that our dogs are no more perfect than we are. They don't judge us as we do them.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

I think I'd be tempted to 'put a sock in it'. If he's quiet with something in his mouth, work him that way. I'd use a soft toy instead of the dumbell so that he doesn't start to mouth the dumbell.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

He's only quiet for short distances x.x Then he just starts mumbling around it >.< (Sorry, I'm not very clear sometimes).

I can certainly try it...but my question is, will it transfer over when he DOESN'T have anything in his face?


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## chrisn6104 (Jun 8, 2009)

A while ago I lived alone with two dogs and worked nights. Sometimes I would be gone over night and not be back until the next day. I had a neighbor kid come over on the days I was gone and walk the dogs. 
I found out by the neighbors the dogs would go out back and bark for hours when I was gone (only at night). I was forced to use a bark collar. I tried the cit kind and returned 4 of them. They all leaked and tore thru batteries (lasted 2 or 3 weeks). Finally got two working ones that lasted about 4 months before leaking. I had to go with the shock kind from PetSafe. It did cure the night time barking instantly and the batteries last a long time (months). 

I have not used them in over 6 months now since my schedule changed and have a GF living with me. The collars only stop the dog from barking when the collar is on. They do nothing for training. At least that's how it worked for my dogs.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Have you tried doing something really weird the second he starts barking . . . like throwing yourself to the ground in an over exaggerated fake I'm dying routine? Thats how I got my cat to shut the freak up. I know a cat and a dog are very different but . . . I couldn't get my cat to shut up while I was getting her food ready. I had tried millions of different things and then one day I just was fed up and in a goofy mood, she started screaming for her food and I pretended to die, she stopped screaming, probably startled or very curious about what I was doing. I got up, started getting the food ready, she screamed, i pretend died. It only took me pretend dying 3 times before she was perfectly quiet while I got her food ready.

I had tried in the past putting down her food bowl and walking away when she started screaming and only coming back when she was quiet but that did not work at all. For some reason pretending to die did (maybe she just decided I was crazy and she better not tick me off?).


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Have you tried doing something really weird the second he starts barking . . . like throwing yourself to the ground in an over exaggerated fake I'm dying routine?


I can't do things like that....he's trained to find a person to help me when something like that ACTUALLY happens, and then we can't go back to competition work because he becomes SO concerned that I'm not ok, he hits service dog mode and gets VERY "OMG r u ok?! Here! Lean on me! GO SLOWER! Good lord what is wrong with you!? Why would you do that?!"

If it weren't for that....I would totally do it, because it sounds AWESOME *ROFL*


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Xeph said:


> I can't do things like that....he's trained to find a person to help me when something like that ACTUALLY happens, and then we can't go back to competition work because he becomes SO concerned that I'm not ok, he hits service dog mode and gets VERY "OMG r u ok?! Here! Lean on me! GO SLOWER! Good lord what is wrong with you!? Why would you do that?!"
> 
> If it weren't for that....I would totally do it, because it sounds AWESOME *ROFL*


Ahh gotcha. Too bad, it worked wonderfully for my cat and it was hysterical to see her face, lol. Every so often now she will make a peep and then I see her eyes get all big like "oh no! I can't believe I just did that!" and she stops herself mid noise, haha. What if you tried something different, that wouldn't (hopefully) put him into service dog mode, like spin in a circle flapping your arms or um . . . I dunno, lol.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Xeph said:


> He's only quiet for short distances x.x Then he just starts mumbling around it >.< (Sorry, I'm not very clear sometimes).
> 
> I can certainly try it...but my question is, will it transfer over when he DOESN'T have anything in his face?



I've never tried this myself so, I don't know if it will work or if it will transfer but I think it's worth a shot. Ideally, he would quickly learn that he stiill gets to do the stuff he likes; still gets all that praise and all the attention but now, for a 'muted' level of performance.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Mel I am totally going to try acting wacky (in a safe manner) to see if it helps, if for nothing other than the look on his face


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## chriley58 (Mar 9, 2009)

You could also try something that makes a sound totally foreign to him, those plastic bike horns, or something like that to shake him out of his barking. It is funny to see the looks on their faces when something unexpected happens.


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## kritterkare (Aug 18, 2009)

i whish you would not use dog bark collars as they can do damage to the dog if not used properly. try voice traing your dog to be quite by telling him no quite thaks for viewing my comment


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

I would stop having any formal obedience sessions at all. Instead, any time he is with you.. just hanging out.. ask for a behavior.. anything at all. Completely random and then release and continue being relaxed. 

Do you ever just take a walk with him? a non working walk? ya know.. where the dog is just taking a walk, sniffing stuff etc. If you don't you should absoutely do this so he knows there are times when he just takes a walk.. no pressure, no work.. just going along. 

During these relaxed walks, randomly ask for things. Like down, come here, sit etc. The object is that he is to do the request where he is.. not return to you and then do it. The other object is that the instant he does it to release him and NOT do more work. 

Eventually, you can go back to stringing this stuff together, but for now, not. For now you are showing him you want him to do what you ask, when you ask and it is just no big deal. No drive. No anything but random and then going back to relaxing. 

Try that and see if he barks when you ask. 

I would also teach him the "quiet" command and if he barks when he is not asked, use it. Everyone says to me that the GSD is a barky dog. I have never had a barky dog including to GSD's and a GSD mix. Yes, Atka barks but when she does, the session is OVER. There is NO Reward. 

Your dog is drivey. Well, remove the drive and ask him then. If he barks inappropriately do not reward him with attention or continued work. Stop and LEAVE him right there. Go into the house, another room or whatever. Give him NO reward and NO response for barking, including more work (which he craves). 

This is not an instant fix. I believe it would work. It sure is worth a try and one heckuva lot better than E collaring a good Sevice dog and possibly confusing him.


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## tricknskip (Aug 19, 2009)

If your dog is barking due to excitement, then a bark collar is not the best solution, because it can end up increasing stimulation in an already excited dog.

If your dog is barking because he's excited and enjoying himself, then the best idea is to, when he barks, take away the fun activity. In your case you might want to put him in a time-out. When he barks, give some sort of verbal cue, and then immediately lead him to someplace (not too far) and tie or confine or have him stand there with you, not participating in anything. He'll get the idea that barking = boring nothing and that silence = fun working. 

It'll be a little annoying at first because you'll have to repeat it a bunch of times, and he might bark in tantrum to show his displeasure. But it'll work.


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## Elana55 (Jan 7, 2008)

Oh yes.. one thing tricknslip mentioned triggered something here that needs saying. 

IF Strauss has barked and gotten more attention and more work as a result of barking, he will INCREASE his barking when you withdraw attention and more work (which is the thing he wanted when he barked and the thing he got). 

When you go to extinguish a behavior that was rewarded by removing the reward the dog will go thru an extingushment "burst" in an attempt to get things back the way he wants them. 

so, expect barking to ESCALATE when you do this. Your job will be to be totally consistant and stop working or giving attention when he barks and not giving attention or work until he STOPS barking.. withdrawing same if he starts up again. 

This is not going to be easy but it will work. If you can be tough enough.


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