# Hills Prescription Diet J/D



## Jozy (Aug 25, 2011)

Hello,

I found my shih tzu in July 2011 and when i brought him to the vet after finding him, the vet recommended that i feed him Hills Prescription Diet J/D. He is approx. 3 years old and has a "bad leg" from a previous injury, hence the reason why the vet recommended the J/D for mobility. Last weekend, we had a a huge "animal show" in Montreal (SNAC) with many booths for dog food, treats etc. I spoke to many of them and apparently the vet food isnt the best since the main ingredients are grains/corn. I got plenty of samples from different kind of "organic" foods and then went to a store that specializes in dog food and asked questions. I was told that ACANA or ORIGEN would be good options as they have some glucocamin for his bad leg and lots of protein. They told me that if i would like to make the switch, to try with ACANA first (less proteins than ORIGEN) and then go over to ORIGEN. What would you recommend? ACANA, ORIGEN or something else? Thanks alot for your help! I dont know what to do and who to trust!!!!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Jozy said:


> Hello,
> 
> I found my shih tzu in July 2011 and when i brought him to the vet after finding him, the vet recommended that i feed him Hills Prescription Diet J/D. He is approx. 3 years old and has a "bad leg" from a previous injury, hence the reason why the vet recommended the J/D for mobility. Last weekend, we had a a huge "animal show" in Montreal (SNAC) with many booths for dog food, treats etc. I spoke to many of them and apparently the vet food isnt the best since the main ingredients are grains/corn. I got plenty of samples from different kind of "organic" foods and then went to a store that specializes in dog food and asked questions. I was told that ACANA or ORIGEN would be good options as they have some glucocamin for his bad leg and lots of protein. They told me that if i would like to make the switch, to try with ACANA first (less proteins than ORIGEN) and then go over to ORIGEN. What would you recommend? ACANA, ORIGEN or something else? Thanks alot for your help! I dont know what to do and who to trust!!!!


If the glucosamine is what you're concerned about, I would opt to not worry about the foods that add it and supplement it yourself. There are a ton of good glucosamine products on the market, and it will be much more concentrated and effective than having trace amounts in the food  I have never used Acana or Orijen, but I know there are several posters here who have, maybe they'll chime in.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

I used Orijen for about a month. My dog did great on it but it was just too expensive, and I went to raw feeding anyway.

I fed Taste of the Wild when she was a puppy, great price for high quality. There's talk about them splitting their food from all life stages into having both puppy and adult formulas, so I'm not sure what exactly will change.

Nature's Variety, the Instinct line, are also good and well priced. The Prairie line of food from them has grain so I would personally avoid it.

I've never looked into Acana.


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## luvmyboyz (Nov 9, 2011)

I agree that you should supplement with Glucosamine in pill form. If you are wondering about Orijen and Acana, I've tried both and they're both great foods. Acana being a little bit cheaper is my food of choice, and for some reason my dogs like the taste better (I even use the food as treats when training because they love it so much!)

I like Orijen and so do my dogs, but it is dam expensive...so if money does not matter, I think Orijen is about as good as you can get (and supplement Glucosamine).

That prescription stuff they sell at the vets is what keeps people having to bring their dogs back to the vets IMO.


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## Jozy (Aug 25, 2011)

Thank you all! :wave: I think Acana/Origen is the way to go!


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## Jozy (Aug 25, 2011)

Hello again!

How much glucosamine should i give my dog? He's a 13 pound shih tzu. His injury in an old paw fracture that was never taken care but has healed with time. Thats what the vet said after taking x-rays. THANKS AGAIN!


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I used the suggestion written here. http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjarthritis.html

Sassy just got the amount suggested in a supplement designed for humans I found at Costco. She was in much better shape if the supplement included glucosamine, chondrotin and MSM and I actually threw away a supplement that didn't have MSM as she did poorly on it. The particular one I bought was in a huge pill that I ground up and mixed with something yummy after it got to be too much for her to chew up. Apparently they are tasty, the dogs got into a scuffle over one I dropped on the floor once!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Kathyy said:


> I used the suggestion written here. http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjarthritis.html
> 
> Sassy just got the amount suggested in a supplement designed for humans I found at Costco. She was in much better shape if the supplement included glucosamine, chondrotin and MSM and I actually threw away a supplement that didn't have MSM as she did poorly on it. The particular one I bought was in a huge pill that I ground up and mixed with something yummy after it got to be too much for her to chew up. Apparently they are tasty, the dogs got into a scuffle over one I dropped on the floor once!


I too opt for glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM is possible. A few people I know grind the pills up in a coffee grinder and use it as a powder form, others buy the stuff already in liquid form. I buy the pills, halve them, and halve them again so my small dogs each get 1/2 of a pill a day (technically 2 quarters). Another option (for a boost for the OP) would be adding salmon oil in a few times a week--natural anti-inflammatory and good for that skin too. My oldest dog also had a paw injury--it was treated as best as possible, but most of the break was in his toes and wrist, which was hard if not impossible to splint...so he was on a lot of crate rest for awhile. At 10 1/2 years old, it doesn't seem to bother him, and he had this injury when he was 3.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

It depends on the severity of his symptoms. As much as I dislike some foods Hills has out, their prescription diets are nearly unmatched. AKA supplementing won't cut it. Hallie got hit by two cars and sustained a shattered hindquarters. We've tried supplementing but J/d gives better results. In winter she has a limp anytime she tries to run or go upstairs, I'll do j/d because it really does make a difference that supplementing alone doesn't do. It doesn't just have glucosamine and chondroitin., the food itself is designed with the joints in mind. Anyways, to cut to the chase. If his problems are severe (has trouble walking, in pain, etc) try j/d, if it's a simple discomfort supplements should do. You have to remember that every dog does differently and that corn doesn't harm, keep your dog's comfort in mind.


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## Jozy (Aug 25, 2011)

Hallie said:


> It depends on the severity of his symptoms. As much as I dislike some foods Hills has out, their prescription diets are nearly unmatched. AKA supplementing won't cut it. Hallie got hit by two cars and sustained a shattered hindquarters. We've tried supplementing but J/d gives better results. In winter she has a limp anytime she tries to run or go upstairs, I'll do j/d because it really does make a difference that supplementing alone doesn't do. It doesn't just have glucosamine and chondroitin., the food itself is designed with the joints in mind. Anyways, to cut to the chase. If his problems are severe (has trouble walking, in pain, etc) try j/d, if it's a simple discomfort supplements should do. You have to remember that every dog does differently and that corn doesn't harm, keep your dog's comfort in mind.


Hello! Thanks for your input. According to the vet, Wally is NOT in pain at all. I would have to agree since he walks very fast, run up and down the stairs, jumps on the couch etc. Unless you really pay CLOSE attention, you wont notice that his back leg walks a bit funny. The vet recommended the j/d to try to prevent arthrtritis in the future. Wally is only 3 years old. What would you recommend? Should I stay with J/D? THANKS!


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Hills Prescription Diet J/D is very low in protein. Not sure about feet and banged up legs but I know dogs with hip issues can be just fine if the muscles around the joint are strong to support the poor joints. Need lots of protein for that to work. Max had very poor muscle development on 22% protein kibble and this is even lower than that. On high protein raw he gained 5 pounds of muscle compared to his kibble weight and is noticeably stronger.

The good stuff in kibble is easily oxidized too. Even though J/D adds in extra vitamin E and omega 3s they might not be effective by the time the bag is finished. 

And I busted up my ankle real good over 25 years ago and no arthritis or pain yet even though the dr told me I have no cartilage left. I am not in the best shape ever, just lots of walking and hiking. That really was just a heads up, it might be fine.

I would try one of the nice samples you found and evaluate his condition after every bag. Put your hands on him and check all the bony bits. I was shocked [not kidding] when I discovered Max weighed the same at the vet but I could feel his ribs, chest bone, hips. Then I noticed his thighs were twice as thick as they had been! Max had been able to hop from a sit pretty position which he had never been able to do, I should have figured he was stronger!


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## luvmyboyz (Nov 9, 2011)

Hallie said:


> You have to remember that every dog does differently and that corn doesn't harm


But lack of meat content definitely does. Hills Prescription Diets lack meat content, which does more harm in the long run. I hate to say it, but if my dogs had any type of health problem, I would try RAW feeding before a Hills Prescription diet. I've heard miraculous stories of dogs with all kinds of health problems, that were cured with RAW feeding. JMHO

Edit: I don't feed RAW, but I've been considering it.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Jozy said:


> Hello! Thanks for your input. According to the vet, Wally is NOT in pain at all. I would have to agree since he walks very fast, run up and down the stairs, jumps on the couch etc. Unless you really pay CLOSE attention, you wont notice that his back leg walks a bit funny. The vet recommended the j/d to try to prevent arthrtritis in the future. Wally is only 3 years old. What would you recommend? Should I stay with J/D? THANKS!


It's up to you. Since it isn't really severe yet you could just supplement. However, no one here is a vet! The vet will tell you how much of glocosamine/chondoitin to give your dog. Honestly, it sounds like you could go either way since his limp isn't bad. Some people here are to quick to judge, but when it comes down to your little guys comfort it shouldn't matter if the food isn't the best. Another option, if you want to do j/d, you could supplement with another brand of can food as a topping, it'll add extra protein and give him something new to make his dinner more exciting. That way you'll get all of the benefits of j/d and still manage to fit some 'good stuff' in his diet. Keep an eye on little Wally, as long as he's happy and healthy you have nothing to worry about! 

Also, always take the advice of your vet when it comes down to things like arthritis, pancreatitis, etc.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

luvmyboyz said:


> But lack of meat content definitely does. Hills Prescription Diets lack meat content, which does more harm in the long run. I hate to say it, but if my dogs had any type of health problem, I would try RAW feeding before a Hills Prescription diet. I've heard miraculous stories of dogs with all kinds of health problems, that were cured with RAW feeding. JMHO
> 
> Edit: I don't feed RAW, but I've been considering it.


Actually, when compared with other brands that are 'holistic', the protein levels are nearly the same. J/d's protein level is the same as Natural Balance. 'lack of meat' would be a vegetarian food. No average dog is going to be harmed by eating a food with 20% protein. As long as your dog isn't a working dog, or using alot of energy everyday 'low' protein is fine. It's a misconception that a grainy food will harm a dog. Also, the OP's dog has medical issues, which is something you don't want to gamble with. A raw diet won't do anything for arthritis, you would have to supplement just the same as any other dog food. IMO when it comes down to serious medical problems, especially joint problems, the performance of j/d is unmatched.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

That is because Hill's has done the study to justify the food.. Good that Hill's shows that the diet helps but they are selling product, aren't they? Do they compare their product to other diets expected to help arthritis in those studies? 

Since it does have a lot of omega 3 it might work better than most regular kibbles if not supplemented but adding a joint supplement and fish oil to a good quality kibble has to be better than feeding all the potentially inflammatory grains in J/D. Omega 3s are very fragile and don't last long in dry food, feeding a capsule is a better way to get them in the diet.

Max doesn't have arthritis but his diet has the same helpful joint supplements as J/D and all the sites I have read through about joint health. His raw diet includes a lot of cartilage and tendons which are the commercial source of chondroitin. I figured he needs about an ounce of raw wet cartilage a day to equal the suggested dose of chondroitin. Glucosamine is also plentiful in connective tissue.

"Wet cartilage contains about five percent chondroitin sulfate; dry cartilage has nearly 20 percent. "
http://www.chiroweb.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=17841

I also feed him fresh fatty fish with high amounts of omega 3. If I needed to I could increase the amount of fish he gets. He even gets quite a bit of vitamin C from kidney, lung and all the other organs. Taurine is plentiful in meat. What other additions are there in the Hill's to support good joint health?

Protein doesn't provide energy, not the way fat and carbs do. Protein builds the body. A sick body needs more protein, not less. Sassy's kidney disease definitely increased her need for low phosphorus protein. I suspect an arthritic dog would do better with more protein as well. Recently senior dog diets have started providing more protein for senior dogs that may have trouble utilizing all the nutrients as they could as healthy adults to keep lean muscle mass high which keeps dogs on their feet which keeps them active and happy longer. Sassy was on the joint supplement for years on kibble and when I increased the protein in her home cooked food she got stronger and happier. 

This dog doesn't have pain or arthritis at the moment, the vet just thinks supporting the joints to be a reasonable precaution. Try the Acana and add fish oil and see how it goes. Grains can be inflammatory and a grain free food might be good for the dog.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Looking at the ingredients, I'm not sure what they put in it to "aid mobility", besides the glucosamine, chondroitin, and omega 3s. Maybe the carnitine and tryptophan also have benefits? If we're going to pick on ingredients, I'd say the "soybean mill run" (whatever that is) with soybean meal just following would be my biggest concern. Probably when those are added together, the food is mostly soy.


Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Flaxseed, Soybean Mill Run, Brewers Rice, Soybean Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Threonine, Taurine, Soy Lecithin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Chondroitin Sulfate, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Anyway, I guess if that's the only thing that would keep your dog comfortable, you do what you gotta do. But I'd be looking for alternatives.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Kathyy said:


> That is because Hill's has done the study to justify the food.. Good that Hill's shows that the diet helps but they are selling product, aren't they? Do they compare their product to other diets expected to help arthritis in those studies?
> 
> Since it does have a lot of omega 3 it might work better than most regular kibbles if not supplemented but adding a joint supplement and fish oil to a good quality kibble has to be better than feeding all the potentially inflammatory grains in J/D. Omega 3s are very fragile and don't last long in dry food, feeding a capsule is a better way to get them in the diet.
> 
> ...


Remeber that chicken byproduct meal is dried cartilage, it's extremely nutrient dense and very good for joints the same as wet cartilage is, it's just more concentrated. Also, no studies have supported that grains are inflammatory( that I can find). Science diet has PHd nutritionists leading the way and supervising all of their formulas. The OP can choose whatever she likes,but there is no reason to bash a food based on hypothetical beliefs. J/d will NOT hurt your dog, and neither will grain free 'holistic' food. I've fed both and observed little difference in my dog between the two. In the end, there is little difference, and it depends on the dog what needs to be fed whether it be Hill's or Orijen. These types of discussion always seem to open a can of worms, I don't want this to get nasty like it has in the past :redface:.


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## Jozy (Aug 25, 2011)

I am sorry that i brought this topic up, i am very confused and still dont know what to do. I just want whats best for my dog! Dont we all!!!! But I guess there is no ONE good way of doing things. Since Wally enjoys basically any dog food, i guess i could switch around half/half with j/d and another good brand, after all i got all those free samples at the pet show (wellness, origen, akana,evo)!!!!! Wouldnt want it to go to waiste! Thank you all!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

luvmyboyz said:


> But lack of meat content definitely does. Hills Prescription Diets lack meat content, which does more harm in the long run. I hate to say it, but if my dogs had any type of health problem, I would try RAW feeding before a Hills Prescription diet. I've heard miraculous stories of dogs with all kinds of health problems, that were cured with RAW feeding. JMHO
> 
> Edit: I don't feed RAW, but I've been considering it.


I do feed a raw diet, and honestly it hasn't been a miracle cure for my dogs's health problems. Arthritis and allergies have not miraculously disappeared, though I think the raw diet has HELPED the one dog. The only thing that it has been a "miracle" cure for is one of my dogs's tearstaining problems we've been battling his whole life. I support raw feeding, but I don't support people who feed raw even if their dogs get sick on it (I have one who, for one reason or another, didn't have the right gut to handle raw and it made him very ill). Finding what individual dog does best on what diet is really trial and error, IMO.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Hallie said:


> Remeber that chicken byproduct meal is dried cartilage, it's extremely nutrient dense and very good for joints the same as wet cartilage is, it's just more concentrated. Also, no studies have supported that grains are inflammatory( that I can find). Science diet has PHd nutritionists leading the way and supervising all of their formulas. The OP can choose whatever she likes,but there is no reason to bash a food based on hypothetical beliefs. J/d will NOT hurt your dog, and neither will grain free 'holistic' food. I've fed both and observed little difference in my dog between the two. In the end, there is little difference, and it depends on the dog what needs to be fed whether it be Hill's or Orijen. These types of discussion always seem to open a can of worms, I don't want this to get nasty like it has in the past :redface:.


I knew a golden retriever who had two blown out kneecaps and the surgery to fix them. He was on J/D for the rest of his life, and he was no worse for wear (no one told HIM he had undergone major surgery!) I've also personally had two house cats live to see the age of 21 eating good ol' Purina Cat Chow. I *also* lost a beloved house cat at a year and a half old who was fed premium food all his short life. I've seen dogs live well into their teens on Beneful, Ol' Roy, and Purina Dog Chow, many GOOD years on these foods, as well as dogs who have been fed only the "best" stuff their entire sickly lives. I've also personally met dogs who have been raw fed from the get go succumb to cancer that ultimately took their lives. Anymore, feeding dogs isn't that scientific for me. I do the best I can with what I have, and hope my dogs's genetics support a long, healthy life for them. Diet for me brings my dogs to the top of their *GENETIC* potential.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Jozy said:


> I am sorry that i brought this topic up, i am very confused and still dont know what to do. I just want whats best for my dog! Dont we all!!!! But I guess there is no ONE good way of doing things. Since Wally enjoys basically any dog food, i guess i could switch around half/half with j/d and another good brand, after all i got all those free samples at the pet show (wellness, origen, akana,evo)!!!!! Wouldnt want it to go to waiste! Thank you all!



I tinkered with diet for years before I hit upon a diet that worked best for my dog who has arthritis, a few rickety joints, bone spurs, and allergies you can't believe. Sometimes it just takes some experimenting and trial and error to find the food your dog thrives on and you can afford to feed. Good luck with Wally


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Why don't you just feed whatever you were feeding and.add a supplement? ubavet.makes a liquid one you can add to food. Just make sure it also has chondroitin in it. Also you can add an omega 3 fatty acid- just buy a quality one at a human pharmacy - the omega in kibble are not really viable as they are destroyed by heat. 

Another thing I would suggest is hydrotherapy. It this is expensive. To can do things like get those small rubber dome things for humans and buy four. Have him stand with each paw on a dome.this will help his balance.and to strengthen the muscles so they can help support joints. Or you can use a balance ball (Tue smaller one) and have your dog rest his.front legs on the ball so his back legs have to balance and the muscles can strengthen that way too.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I knew a golden retriever who had two blown out kneecaps and the surgery to fix them. He was on J/D for the rest of his life, and he was no worse for wear (no one told HIM he had undergone major surgery!) I've also personally had two house cats live to see the age of 21 eating good ol' Purina Cat Chow. I *also* lost a beloved house cat at a year and a half old who was fed premium food all his short life. I've seen dogs live well into their teens on Beneful, Ol' Roy, and Purina Dog Chow, many GOOD years on these foods, as well as dogs who have been fed only the "best" stuff their entire sickly lives. I've also personally met dogs who have been raw fed from the get go succumb to cancer that ultimately took their lives. Anymore, feeding dogs isn't that scientific for me. I do the best I can with what I have, and hope my dogs's genetics support a long, healthy life for them. Diet for me brings my dogs to the top of their *GENETIC* potential.


I've had the same experience! I grew up with 14 or so mutts on a farm in Kentucky, and like for all of the other animals (we had goats and cows), we went to the co-op picked up a big 50lb bag of food, the dog food was a co op hunting brand, and some of those dogs are still alive and well today at 15 yrs of age.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Were these dogs supplemented with scraps or able to scavenge some goodies on their own? Somewhere on the Woodhaven Labrador Retriever site is a link to a link to a short article by a vet. Sure wish I had bookmarked it! He was surprised when dogs fed some poor sort of kibble presented in very good condition. After a while he thought to also ask, and what else? He found that dogs fed poor quality kibble plus scraps of fresh food could be in good condition.

Found it!
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/nutritioncomments.html


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Kathyy said:


> Were these dogs supplemented with scraps or able to scavenge some goodies on their own? Somewhere on the Woodhaven Labrador Retriever site is a link to a link to a short article by a vet. Sure wish I had bookmarked it! He was surprised when dogs fed some poor sort of kibble presented in very good condition. After a while he thought to also ask, and what else? He found that dogs fed poor quality kibble plus scraps of fresh food could be in good condition.
> 
> Found it!
> http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/nutritioncomments.html


I've had several vets tell me that, barring any weird diseases, barn cats are 99% more healthy than most house cats simply because of lifestyle a diet. My barn cats are rangy half feral things, but seem surprisingly robust. I put food out for them twice a day, but I've found mice, birds, and once a rabbit leg (!) in the barn before. 
The house cats we had when I was a kid that died past the age of 21 were minimally vaccinated as well. I know vaccinations are a whole nother thread, but I honestly wonder if that doesn't have something to do with age related illnesses vs. going non-stop til they drop, kwim?


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

While many dogs have lived long lives on grocery store or in this case, veterinary foods, I personally feel better feeding my dogs a high quality food. I have fed both Acana and Orijen with good results. Looking at the ingredients on the Hills JD, no way would I feed that. There are many supplements out there for ortho issues, you can use dog ones or human ones. Do you have access to a holistic vet, that could be of help?


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