# For those that show in conformation extensively



## Niraya

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=4633

The AKC/Eukanuba National Championship that is held in December that was previously invitation only will now be opened to all competitors.

Though the top 25 dogs from each breed as well as the bred-by Exhibitor Champions and other special qualifiers will still be celebrated with an invitation granting special recognition.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Well that is certainly interesting, still not sure if I will be going, will have to see, I guess if BB makes it into the top 25 I might.

Westminster is doing about the same thing next year. Opening the show up to non champions, but those non champions have to have at least one major I believe. Also they are moving the day showing to another location, but the night stuff will still be held at the Garden.


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## Niraya

I thought it was really interesting. A lot of people are quite upset reading comments on their facebook.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

AKC has been doing a LOT of revamping lately, to make things more enjoyable as they say. There is now a new owner handler series, where owners who handle can compete away from the pros. It will be a separate competition after the judging of that breed has ended, and will have its own ranking, and own groups. If a dog that gets BOB is owner handled its automatically the owner handler BOB.

The just rearranged their divisions, and new point schedules (which they do every year) will be out in may.


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## Niraya

I heard about the owner handler series. SiberiansUSA had a thing on it before they implemented it asking peoples opinions. I don't think that's necessarily a bad idea - but then again I don't show (yet). I was looking at the rankings and stuff the other day for the owner handler series just out of curiosity.

And since I'm a noob - what is the rearranging of divisions with the point schedules? I've seen it mentioned but didn't look into it.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

I think this can explain it better than I could ever

http://www.bestinshowdaily.com/blog/2012/03/akc-point-schedule-divisions-due-to-change-in-may-2012/

My division isn't changing much, but we lose kentucky. Yours is gaining New York.


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## Niraya

You're a wonderful resource, Chaos. I seriously thank you for everything you've directly and indirectly helped me learn !


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Niraya said:


> You're a wonderful resource, Chaos. I seriously thank you for everything you've directly and indirectly helped me learn !


Always happy too, I am an AKC mentor after all.


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## Niraya

I'm going to totally steal you for long distance mentoring :3


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Niraya said:


> I'm going to totally steal you for long distance mentoring :3


That is perfectly fine. Xeph would also be a great source, and she is closer.


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## Niraya

<3! I'm going to totally utilize Xeph when I move since I'm going to be extremely close to her! She just doesn't know it yet. I'll also have my breeder that I'm extremely excited to work with. 

It made me sad because when I first started looking into this I found a breeder not very far from me presently who I was speaking to who was very highly recommended and then she just stopped talking with me. I'm okay with that though since I found Huskavarna and Siberlink (who's actually out here where I am now).


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## ChaosIsAWeim

That's great to have help, help is something I didn't have when I first started, It wasn't until I met my mentor and co-breeder that I got help. I owe everything to her. Before I met her I was likely going to quit because no one would help me. I am just glad to pass on my knowledge, even though I have only been showing for 11-12 years.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

As of July 3rd this year, there will now be a Reserve BIS. I am very pleased that they have finally implemented this, as it has been in the works for a few years now. 

http://www.bestinshowdaily.com/blog/2012/04/reserve-best-in-show-a-bfd/

I only hope they can eventually agree to revamp the group arrangement, that proposal was shot down recently but I believe is going to be further reviewed.


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## Niraya

I really am ridiculously grateful to anyone who has offered me any type of help in regards to conformation and my interest in it. I thank Huskavarna and Siberlink almost once a week for just talking to me, basically. I probably ask a lot of really dumb questions - though I try and look up lots of things that I have questions on just to maybe have a better idea so I understand more and I always look up things that they tell me. 

I am thankful that you're willing to pass on your knowledge! Beyond thankful, really.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Niraya said:


> I really am ridiculously grateful to anyone who has offered me any type of help in regards to conformation and my interest in it. I thank Huskavarna and Siberlink almost once a week for just talking to me, basically. I probably ask a lot of really dumb questions - though I try and look up lots of things that I have questions on just to maybe have a better idea so I understand more and I always look up things that they tell me.
> 
> I am thankful that you're willing to pass on your knowledge! Beyond thankful, really.


Well if you ever have question don't hesitate to ask me, even though I may not know the answer all the times, I probably would know where to find it.


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## Niraya

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Well if you ever have question don't hesitate to ask me, even though I may not know the answer all the times, I probably would know where to find it.


Thank you very much . Why did they shoot down the group rearrangement? I've heard a bit of talk about it but, again, never touched it. Sometimes it wears me out just trying to look up good, solid information and if I don't find it after awhile I give up .


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## ChaosIsAWeim

I am not exactly sure why it was. If it passed, the sporting, working, and hound groups would have been split, and a few breeds rearranged. Sporting into spaniels and retriever, and setters and pointers (Weims would have been in this group. Hound divided into scenthounds and sighthounds. And working into Utility, Molosser, and Spitz (Siberians would have been in this group). 

Italian greyhounds would have moved to the sighthound group. Finnish Spitz, Keeshond, Norwegian Lundehund, American Eskimo Dog, Chow Chow, Chinese Shar Pei (don't ask me why), Shiba Inu and Schipperke would have moved from non sporting into the spitz group. Finnish Lapphund and Icelandic Sheepdog, Swedish Vallhund and Norwegian Buhund would also be moved from the herding group into the spitz group. Dalmatian would have been moved from Non sporting to the Utility. Entlebucher from Herding to the Utility. 

The other groups would have stayed the same. Some people are calling for other certain breeds to be moved into other groups (i.e standard poodle into the sporting group by the other non sporting people) Poodle people don't want that cause they have the monopoly on the non-sporting group.


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## Niraya

I think that Poodle situation is a bit silly. I think on paper the whole thing looks okay/would be a good idea. Most of it makes sense to some degree or another (at least in my eyes).

Did/would you have liked to have seen it go through?


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Niraya said:


> I think that Poodle situation is a bit silly. I think on paper the whole thing looks okay/would be a good idea. Most of it makes sense to some degree or another (at least in my eyes).
> 
> Did/would you have liked to have seen it go through?


Yes for the most part, I think that some of the breed movements are a little silly (i.e shar pei to the spitz group). This would have dropped the non sporting to 14 breeds, which would make it still the smallest group. Right now the Non sporting group has 19 breeds, compared to sporting group's 28. And the way breeds are getting full recognition so quickly now it will only grow. FCI has more groups than we do and I like their arrangements. The UK doesn't have more groups but they do only do certain groups a day (they also have less shows than we do), where as here the next day is a whole nother show.

I don't mind the amount of shows we have a weekend, I do think that too many in one area on one weekend is the cause of lower entries, at least one of the causes. That is why I like May, there are not many shows in my area till later in the month, at which I will be going to the one the last weekend of May. June however is a hell month lol.


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## Niraya

It makes me sad where I live now because there aren't many shows that aren't an hour or more often than not two plus hours out in any given direction. And that is just too far for me to drive as a spectator .


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## ChaosIsAWeim

I have two more shows this month, Timonium MD and Lewisburg WV. Then just one in May in Hampton, VA. Then June I will be out every weekend. I'm going up to RI for a weim specialty, and then will be going to Charlottesville VA for one day on my way back home. Fishersville, VA then Troy, OH then Richmond, VA and finally Bel Alton, MD. Then after that I am not sure what we are doing, maybe Greenville at the end of July.

Showing two weims this weekend at Timonium. Then BB, a ESS, and maybe a Border Collie at WV.


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## Niraya

That's so many shows ! Are those all for just campaigning BB?


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Niraya said:


> That's so many shows ! Are those all for just campaigning BB?


Mainly, but I am picking up other dogs to show, mostly from friends. Like at Charlottesville, I will have BB but also the ESS and an English Cocker Spaniel. Same with Fishersville, and likely a Border Collie at that show as well and maybe a BC at Cville too. 

Hampton, I am taking BB and most likely one of my bullies and a Tibetan Spaniel. 

I maybe taking the ESS to Troy (one of the judges has given her a reserve at a specialty before), but mainly BB and likely one of my bullies. Bel Alton will be a bulldog (supported entry for them), BB, not sure about anything else. 

Greenville, will be BB, and if she goes the ESS and ECS. So yeah its mainly for BB to get her grand.


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## Niraya

That's fantastic! How far away is she now? 

Also - since I haven't found anyone who could elaborate on the different levels of the Grand - what are they all for and how do you get them?


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## ChaosIsAWeim

She has got about 8 points and two majors. For the first level, the original GCH you need 25 points, gotten under at 4 different judges (each major needs to be under a different judge), and three of those points needs to be majors, and you need to have beaten other champions. BB already has 2 major judges and will need a third, she has single points under another different judge so just needs the major. She has two majors so will need the third. She still needs to be other champions, and I know she can do that. Luckily for me, I tend not to go to the same judge over and over, I like diversity. I do go back to those judges when I get the chance, but I don't seek them out as much as other people tend to do. 

I don't know all the details as I am new to this. Bronze is the next level and you need 100 points for that, and then it is silver and you need 200 points for that, Gold is 400 points, and Platinum is 800 points and the last level for now.


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## Niraya

That gets to be an insane amount of points! I'm sure there are but there are people actively pursing the higher levels? Do they award something greater, or what? Or is just for the bragging right of saying "I pursued a Gold GCH" or other level in place of Gold? Like I know Vali (Snocrest's Leone di Oro) has his GCH and she's still out showing him but not as strongly as she previously was. I've noticed her putting points on her other dogs now and not just him specifically but I don't know if she is pushing for another level or not as I don't speak with her anymore and I can't ask Paula because Winnie retired from the ring after Westminster as they're putting miles under for her dual title.


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## Shaina

Niraya said:


> That gets to be an insane amount of points! I'm sure there are but there are people actively pursing the higher levels? Do they award something greater, or what? Or is just for the bragging right of saying "I pursued a Gold GCH" or other level in place of Gold? Like I know Vali (Snocrest's Leone di Oro) has his GCH and she's still out showing him but not as strongly as she previously was. I've noticed her putting points on her other dogs now and not just him specifically but I don't know if she is pushing for another level or not as I don't speak with her anymore and I can't ask Paula because Winnie retired from the ring after Westminster as they're putting miles under for her dual title.


Yes there are already a couple "Platinum" champions.


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## Niraya

Shaina said:


> Yes there are already a couple "Platinum" champions.


Seriously? -_- that's crazy.


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Shaina said:


> Yes there are already a couple "Platinum" champions.


More than a couple, 15 to be exact. One of which is a weimaraner.


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## Shaina

Niraya said:


> Seriously? -_- that's crazy.


Yes, yes it is 

The first one was last November apparently.


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## Niraya

Some of these people I think need to share their wealth >.>


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## ChaosIsAWeim

You can check for breeds by level

http://www.akc.org/grand_championship/index.cfm?type=gca&section=gc_awards&display

You can check per breed, the amount of points a dog has per state. It hasn't updated yet, but BB is the number 4 weim in VA per GCH points. 

http://www.akc.org/grand_championship/index.cfm?type=gc&section=gcp


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## Niraya

Thank you!!!


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## ChaosIsAWeim

She is also listed in MD where she is number 3, and in OH where she is number 5, don't ask me how I am not really sure.


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## Niraya

I guess she still is campaigning him. Winnie stopped a little shy of her Gold .

Are you going to be going for a higher level of GCH with BB?


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## ChaosIsAWeim

I am not sure, if I do it will just be bronze. She will only be campaigned this year and maybe some next year till she comes in heat. As she will be bred next year. I hope to do some brainstorming as to studs with her breeder at the Troy shows.


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## Niraya

Your inbox, it is full!!!!


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## ChaosIsAWeim

It's not now lol


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## JohnnyBandit

There is a Platinum GCH ACD....

Merlin will get his Bronze but not past that. He is at 92 or 93 points right now....

And Niraya I take it you read my FB comments on the matter?


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## Niraya

Of course I did JB and I completely agree with you (even though my experience in this is nothing)!


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## Alerondogs

Niraya said:


> It makes me sad where I live now because there aren't many shows that aren't an hour or more often than not two plus hours out in any given direction. And that is just too far for me to drive as a spectator .


 If you're moving to Xeph's area, you'll be moving to serious dog show country  There's a big 5 day cluster there every year and maybe an hour away is one of the country's largest outdoor dog shows. A good number of smaller shows too within an hour from there too. And that isn't even getting into the number of agility trials of various venues in the area!


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## Niraya

Alerondogs said:


> If you're moving to Xeph's area, you'll be moving to serious dog show country  There's a big 5 day cluster there every year and maybe an hour away is one of the country's largest outdoor dog shows. A good number of smaller shows too within an hour from there too. And that isn't even getting into the number of agility trials of various venues in the area!


That's AWESOME to know! I'll be moving out close to her - probably around an hour or so away from there. My breeder is also in Ohio and she's a couple hours from the area we're looking at, also. I'm really excited to get out there now but it won't be for awhile - we have to stay here until my father gets his lung transplants (hopefully) and they have to do that at the University of Pennsylvania Hospital.

It's just like Easton is in the middle of NOTHING. Like - NY is 2 hours away, Philly is 1-2 hours away, Maryland is something like 3 or so. Like we're close to cities and the like but not close enough where I can justify driving that far just as a spectator. I'd have no problem doing it if I was actually IN the show.


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## Xeph

Chaos, I've had the same experience as you. I've been showing 11ish yeas myself (I honestly cannot remember WHEN I started exhibiting, but I know it was in high school), and have had no help. There is something true to be said about the snobbery of showing. I try to show people the fun, welcoming sign of conformation exhibition.

My whine of the thread:
It will now only take 11 freaking bitches for a 3 point major in PA.

Ludicrous.


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## Xeph

BTW, I'm showing every. Single. Weekend. In May.

Absolute freaking INSANITY, but I'm finally starting to pick up real, paying clients.


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## Niraya

Xeph said:


> BTW, I'm showing every. Single. Weekend. In May.
> 
> Absolute freaking INSANITY, but I'm finally starting to pick up real, paying clients.


Congratulations!


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## Xeph

I'm going to be SO damn tired.

My first board and train clients are leaving tomorrow morning. The male is going home pointed, the female is going home better than she was.


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## Niraya

Excellent! Being tired is a great thing though! Can't complain about something like that when it's because you're doing something you love!


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## Xeph

This guy needs to come back when he's matured out. I'm extremely confident I can finish him


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Congrats xeph, I will be that way in june, 5 different shows in 4 weekends. The I do not know what I am doing in july. One weekend in may is enough for me with june around the corner lol. I will have three dogs in the may show, two of my own and a client dog (tibetan spaniel). I will have 4 dogs at the second june show, two weims, the springer, and an engie.

I picked up a paying client at the timonium shows.


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## Xeph

> I picked up a paying client at the timonium shows.


Nice!

Taking Wesson and Mirada out this coming weekend, and the weekend after that, this girl will make her AKC debut:


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Oh wow she is nice. I have a much needed break till the 25th of May. We have just done the entries for the next three shows, and need to enter JC in the may show sometime today I suppose.


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## Xeph

Thanks ^_^

She's an import


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Xeph said:


> Thanks ^_^
> 
> She's an import


Where from?


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## Xeph

Somewhere in Germany, lol. Dunno where


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## Niraya

Xeph said:


> Somewhere in Germany, lol. Dunno where


That's how everyone should refer to the location from which their dogs come from!

"Yeah, I don't know...somewhere over there!"  Love it!

Do you train your dogs in German :O?


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## ChaosIsAWeim

Niraya said:


> That's how everyone should refer to the location from which their dogs come from!
> 
> "Yeah, I don't know...somewhere over there!"  Love it!
> 
> Do you train your dogs in German :O?


A dog I used to show was trained in German and Japanese, and when I gave the dog a command a judge thought I told him to sit lol. I forgot what it was I said to the dog. The dog was a Belgian Tervuren


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## Niraya

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> A dog I used to show was trained in German and Japanese, and when I gave the dog a command a judge thought I told him to sit lol. I forgot what it was I said to the dog. The dog was a Belgian Tervuren


That's so cool. I've been debating about teaching Bella commands in Nigerian...just because lol. But I haven't gotten around to it.


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## Xeph

All my dogs are trained in German.

I didn't import the above bitch, she's just hanging around for awhile


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## Niraya

That's so awesome!

I'm jealous .


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## begemot

Xeph said:


>




How do German show line GSD's do in AKC shows these days? I'm curious.

It's interesting how different she is from Wesson and Mirada.


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## Xeph

Depends on the dog and the judge. There are some that have been pointed, but they're on big name pros.

Honestly, having a poor topline isn't what keeps the dogs out of the ribbons. Many have decent toplines. It's a lack of front extension. The European dogs tend to lack reach.

This bitch has decent reach. Nothing amazing, but enough that she should do ok


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