# How Old Should Puppy Be Before Leaving Mom?



## PetDogDepot (Jul 25, 2009)

Hi all,
I am considering purchasing a nice little mutt, however, I am not familiar with how long the pup should be with mom, is there an exact timeframe or is it judgemental?

I've heard recommendations of no less then 8 weeks, however, that seems incredibly short for a pup to become adjusted, I don't want a pup with personality issues!

Please give me your honest opinions, thanks!


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

The litter we're raising won't go to homes until they turn 10 weeks old. Two already have homes and I know their owners want them earlier, but we are adamant they stay here together until 10 weeks. The three pups that dont' have homes are going to an adoption group and I believe they are planning on holding on to the pups until 12 weeks.

The longer the better, IMO.


eta: we don't have a specific date yet for removing the bitch...we're playing that by ear based on the litter developtment and what Mama is tells us.


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## PetDogDepot (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks for the advice!


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

"Longer is better" can only carry any weight if the puppies are being well socialized while together in the litter. If they aren't being well socialized, keeping them together for much more than eight weeks will make it significantly harder for them to bond to their new families. 

Even if they are well socialized, it is much easier and much less traumatic for the puppy to accept its new family at 8-9 weeks than it would be later.

With few exceptions - and they are very few indeed - your casual backyard breeder of "lovable mutts" does not do as good a job in any phase of breeding as does a careful breeder of pedigree or breeding-line dogs. Sorry about that but it is a fact.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Poly said:


> "Longer is better" can only carry any weight if the puppies are being well socialized while together in the litter. If they aren't being well socialized, keeping them together for much more than eight weeks will make it significantly harder for them to bond to their new families.
> 
> Even if they are well socialized, it is much easier and much less traumatic for the puppy to accept its new family at 8-9 weeks than it would be later.
> 
> With few exceptions - and they are very few indeed - your casual backyard breeder of "lovable mutts" does not do as good a job in any phase of breeding as does a careful breeder of pedigree or breeding-line dogs. Sorry about that but it is a fact.


Why do say the longer they are together the harder it is to bond to a new family? And what do you mean by "well socialized"?


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## MafiaPrincess (Jul 1, 2009)

Smudge came at 14 weeks. Already crate trained with a substrate preference for grass. He just seemed easier than Cider at 8 weeks.


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## eastcoastwesty (Jul 5, 2009)

Some say 6-8 wks, some say it must be exactly 7 weeks old. I say 10-12 weeks is best. Puppies go through a "fear period" from 8 -10 weeks. They are scared/stressed easier than normally during this time. The puppy needs to be with mom and littermates for at least 8 weeks. If it is taken away any earlier, s/he will idendify with only people, and not dogs. (S/he will not know how to communicate with other dogs, which can be dangerous.) Socializing is making sure that the puppy is used to people of any size, color, age, sex, ect, as well as cats, other pets, and different places and situaltions. Ideally, a puppy should have met 100 different people before 12 weeks old. Anyone who interacts with the puppy for more than 2 min. counts. Properly socializing a puppy will help it to grow up to be a happier, well-adjusted adult. The adults who are fine with all people except kids, men, people with a certian kind of clothes, ect, were probably not well socialized as a puppy.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

EastCoast: I know what the term socialized means. I was trying to get Poly to tell me what he/she meant, considering the other statements made by him/her. The statements, IMHO, were a bit "off" (for lack of a better term).


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## eastcoastwesty (Jul 5, 2009)

Whoops!!! Silly me!


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## opokki (May 30, 2006)

IMO, no younger than 7-8wks. 

If I was looking for a new puppy I would want to obtain it prior to 12wks because _I_ want to be involved in my puppy's early socialization. If I were raising a litter myself, I would want to keep them longer to ensure that they were adequately socialized....because, no matter how much I stress the importance, people just don't seem to take early socialization seriously.

Here is good overview of puppy social development:
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/DevelopmentalStages.html


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Some states have laws prohibiting you from buying, selling, or giving away any pup under 8 weeks old. You'll have to check with your state and local authority to verify if there's a law that affects you, usually vets will know and your local animal shelter "should" know the laws.

Your probaly also aware that you need to research on your chosen breeder, regardless of breed or mix, to make sure they are a quality breeder producing healthy pups you can live with. Depending on the breed or breeds they have there's a variety of different test that should be done to prove the parents are healty. These aren't tests that can be certified by your average vet and need to be sent to or done by specialist.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

I believe 7-10 weeks is best. However both of mine came earlier than that. Upendi came to me at the tender age of 4 weeks after her mom had rejected her and completely quit taking care of her. The people who had her knew absolutely nothing about taking care of puppies so she came to me. Luckily at that time we had three adult dogs who helped in teaching her doggy manners. One thing we had a terrible time of with her was bite inhibition. After months of working on it, it got sorted out. All things aside, she's grown into a confident, if somewhat independent girl.  Mina came at six weeks as when I went to look at the puppies they were left to roam outside and I was afraid of her wandering into the street or getting into something that could harm her. My uncle took one of her littermates aswell. Not too mention my grammas puppies. Needless to say she had lots of other puppies to learn bite inhibition from and four adult dogs to teach her manners. I will say she bites ALOT less than Upendi did and is much more clingy and cuddly. Of course some of it comes from their personalities, but some of does have to do with their different situations.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> Why do say the longer they are together the harder it is to bond to a new family?


Suggest you consult the work of Coren and Pfaffenberger, among many others.



alphadoginthehouse said:


> And what do you mean by "well socialized"?


I see that "eastcoastwesty" has already done a good job describing for you what 'well socialized' means. If you already knew what the term meant, why did you ask the question?


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Poly said:


> I see that "eastcoastwesty" has already done a good job describing for you what 'well socialized' means. If you already knew what the term meant, why did you ask the question?


Because I wanted to see what YOUR definition of the term was. It can mean different things to different people. And by the way, you still haven't give your definition is.

And you didn't answer my first question. You spout theories but don't back them up (other than telling me to read a book). If your statement about bonding is true, how can a dog who is older than 10 wks bond with a family? Both of mine were adult dogs, had already had families, but have bonded to me completely. What is your theory on that? I would love to hear it.


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## AmyBeth (Jun 26, 2009)

the accepted average time frame is 8 weeks. But personally I think it should be more around 10-12 weeks. The couple of litters I raised I sent to their new homes around 11 weeks, and all the ones I still hear about are very sweet well adjusted chihuahua mixes.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

alphadoginthehouse said:


> Because I wanted to see what YOUR definition of the term was. It can mean different things to different people. And by the way, you still haven't give your definition is..


I think you are trying to be argumentative and doing a poor job of it. I have already said that I agreed with the previous answer on socialization. 

Can't be any clearer than that. 



alphadoginthehouse said:


> And you didn't answer my first question. You spout theories but don't back them up (other than telling me to read a book).



It wasn't just "a book", it was actually two books by two different authors - and many articles. Not just any two authors either, but two of the most respected canine behaviorial scientists in the world. 

If you think these people can't support their findings, then I must say - with all due respect - that you don't know what you are talking about.



alphadoginthehouse said:


> If your statement about bonding is true, how can a dog who is older than 10 wks bond with a family? Both of mine were adult dogs, had already had families, but have bonded to me completely. What is your theory on that? I would love to hear it.


I really am glad things worked out well for you and your two dogs. However, I would say that working with adult rescues is not what we are talking about here. 

But since you brought it up, can you possibly think that your experiences makes you an authority right up there with Coren and Pfaffenberger, who based their findings on many, many examples? We've worked with a lot more than two rescues, but I still wouldn't compare myself to them when it comes to how dogs learn and 'bond' to humans. 

I can tell you from first hand working with many rescues - mostly adults -many strays or otherwise poorly socialized - it isn't all a bed of roses nor is it always a guaranteed success. So, if it matters, then yes, my experience corroborates those findings.


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