# Need help with Constant sniffing when ever out



## mozzarella (Jan 16, 2016)

I have been struggling with constant sniffing when ever I take my dog outside of the house.

He seems to get tunnel vision while sniffing the ground, so much that he is unaware of his surroundings and even me trying to get his attention and if he bumps into something or I jerk the leash, he jumps like it startled him. He jumps like this when he knows he is doing something wrong.

This leads me to believe he is aware that I don't approve of the sniffing, but he continues to do it until I physically lift his head off the ground with a foot or hands.

As soon as we go somewhere away from the house, it's nose to the ground in a mad rush forward, but still moves with me, not pulling just to the max extent of the leash.

Along with the sniffing, he also will basically drag his tongue over the ground or floor (leaving a nice wet streak).

He does this on or off leash.

This annoys me like crazy and I don't know how to correct this behavior.

He won't respond to treats and ignores clicker/commands, physical intervention is the only thing that breaks the sniffing tunnel vision.

He's an adult and not a puppy.

Is anyone able to help me get his head up and off the floor while walking/being outside the house?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sniffing is great, it works the dog's mind and makes walks a lot more interesting for them (and more tiring). 

You can work to reduce sniffing to a degree, look up "Premack Principle" for concepts of using sniffing itself as a reward. 

But really, if he isn't dragging you along, he isn't eating things off the ground and he just likes to sniff? That's a reasonable and natural behavior, especially if he is a hound or hound mix.


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

I use an e-collar with 10 different settings on both momentary and continuous, a vibration mode, and a tone (I tested it on myself first so I know exactly what he feels at each level, but have never had to go past 7, and that was only in the beginning of training when he was extremely hyper and so focused that nothing else, not even all the previous stimulation levels and tone, would snap him out of it). Usually, just the tone (no stimulation) will get him to break focus and pay attention to me. Even with the stimulation, I use the lowest setting he responds to (which is how they are meant to be used, not as a punishment just a reinforcement). Usually that level is 3 but if he is very distracted with other dogs around and traffic, it can move up to a 5.

Like you, I tried everything prior to getting an e-collar (treats, leash tug, firm commands, etc.). I got one specifically with the vibration AND a tone, so I only use the stimulation when absolutely necessary. Even then, I always stop stimulation and reward with treats/kibble and praise the instant he responds.

If you do use an e-collar, definitely get a new one. The old ones (and the owners who do not know how to use them properly) gave ALL of them a bad name. The modern ones are great tools to have in your training toolbox.

That being said, an e-collar should not be the first tool you reach for, but it should not be ruled out if you are still having issues.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Be aware that whatever method you use, stopping a dog from sniffing is similar to stopping a person from looking at new surroundings ... smells are changing every day.


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

hanksimon said:


> Be aware that whatever method you use, stopping a dog from sniffing is similar to stopping a person from looking at new surroundings ... smells are changing every day.


Agreed.

I should have stated in my response that I am training mine to be my service dog, therefore he needs to be attentive to me and our surroundings but not distracted by smells or other events.


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## mozzarella (Jan 16, 2016)

I know that normal sniffing is normal, but this isn't just a dog sniffing. This is a dog that has a magnet on his nose and the floor is metal.
He knows he's doing wrong because of how he responds to being corrected, but it's like he is addicted and can't stop himself from doing it.
I know the blame is going to go this way as soon as I mention it, but he has anxiety that results in compulsive and repetitive behaviors and I believe this is one of them.
This might be something that someone would have to see to understand. I think I need a doggy psychiatrist. :-/


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

mozzarella said:


> I know that normal sniffing is normal, but this isn't just a dog sniffing. This is a dog that has a magnet on his nose and the floor is metal.
> He knows he's doing wrong because of how he responds to being corrected, but it's like he is addicted and can't stop himself from doing it.
> I know the blame is going to go this way as soon as I mention it, but he has anxiety that results in compulsive and repetitive behaviors and I believe this is one of them.
> This might be something that someone would have to see to understand. I think I need a doggy psychiatrist. :-/


How well does he obey and respond to you when you are not on walks? It may be necessary to go back and solidify that area of training before proceeding to training outdoors. Once he instantly responds and obeys at home, away from all the distractions, then move on to more intricate and distracting areas for training. There is nothing wrong with taking a step back to solidify training. Crawl, walk, run, etc. You'll get it.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

mozzarella said:


> I know that normal sniffing is normal, but this isn't just a dog sniffing. This is a dog that has a magnet on his nose and the floor is metal.
> He knows he's doing wrong because of how he responds to being corrected, but it's like he is addicted and can't stop himself from doing it.
> I know the blame is going to go this way as soon as I mention it, but he has anxiety that results in compulsive and repetitive behaviors and I believe this is one of them.
> This might be something that someone would have to see to understand. I think I need a doggy psychiatrist. :-/


What breed or breed mix/guess is he?

Sniffing is never wrong per se, it might become obsessive but on the whole, the concept that a dog "knows he is doing wrong" because of his reaction or behavior when he is corrected is a flawed observation. Dogs react to the punishment, if they anticipate a punishment then they tend to offer appeasement behaviors. Which look like "guilt" but are simply a reaction to the human's expected actions.

You can redirect a sniffing dog, but be highly cautious of the idea of punishing sniffing as a behavior. It really does serve a purpose for dogs and can be very beneficial even.

A dog with known anxiety is even more a dog that you do not want to use a shock collar or physical correction on. Pain will increase anxiety generally.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

I try hard to train with positive and negative reinforcement rather than punishment. My dogs are so soft they act worse if I try to use punishment to change behavior. 

Sassy and Max were not quite as bad as your guy but they would lunge to sniffy places and not want to leave. I decided to try clicker training and planned to count how long they sniffed on average then reward sniffs that were shorter. I didn't talk while counting they got worse and sniffed much longer. Teeny light bulb went on over my head. I started praising them when they lifted their heads and moved away from that sniffy place. I didn't even use treats, just happy words. It actually worked! They sniffed for only 15 seconds rather than 30-45 and they weren't lunging to get to those spots as it was no longer forbidden and I wasn't annoyed that they were sniffing. Well I was still annoyed but dogs don't really get sarcasm.

I went with this plan of action and now freeze when dog's nose goes down. Dog is allowed to sniff as much and as long as they like within the circle of the leash's reach. I now wait until the annoyed dog looks at me to move on. Happy words and off we go. When starting this and when in new places I do treat as well.

Try it. Take a book with you, listen to music - anything to take your mind off how annoying that sniffing is and let him do it as much as he pleases but stop walking when nose goes down. When he pulls and you don't move eventually he will look at you. It will seem like hours but time it, probably less than 5 minutes. PRAISE him to the skies, give him a treat and move on. Probably in 3 steps his nose will go back down and you freeze again. Just time the walk and when half your time is gone go home. I tend to do in and out walks so am going back over the exact same ground and usually the dogs walk faster on the return trip.


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## BKaymuttleycrew (Feb 2, 2015)

mozzarella said:


> I know that normal sniffing is normal, but this isn't just a dog sniffing. This is a dog that has a magnet on his nose and the floor is metal.
> He knows he's doing wrong because of how he responds to being corrected, but it's like he is addicted and can't stop himself from doing it.
> I know the blame is going to go this way as soon as I mention it, but he has anxiety that results in compulsive and repetitive behaviors and I believe this is one of them.
> This might be something that someone would have to see to understand. I think I need a doggy psychiatrist. :-/


Just a few thoughts: First off, I'd really like to know what breed or mix he is. If this is a hound, you might have to learn to embrace the sniffing. 

Otherwise, though, if this is truly not 'normal' sniffing you need to be aware of WHY dogs might sniff (when there's nothing to smell). First of all, it is a stress related displacement behavior. Some dogs will compulsively sniff when they are feeling anxious, so you getting angry & physically trying to 'correct' the behavior with leash jerks, etc... will only serve to make the dog MORE anxious (the scared jumping) and this will lead to *increased* sniffing.

Sniffing is also used in some dogs as a calming signal to others - they sniff the ground to diffuse tension in a situation or in others around them. So he might be starting with 'normal' sniffing, but as you get angry he tries to calm you down by -- yup! MORE sniffing! 

I'd suggest starting by getting him to offer voluntary attention more dependably. Just sit with him on leash (inside at first) & don't say anything or try in any way to get his attention. Just wait. The instant he looks at you click (or other wise mark the behavior) and treat. Then play this game in a lower distraction area outside, such as in your yard or area immediately outside the house that he passes by a LOT. Just wait for as long as it takes for him to pick his head up & notice you - then again mark the behavior & provide the highest value treat you can provide. Once he starts to get the hang of this, you can provide a secondary (and even higher value reward) by 'releasing' him to "go sniff" after he has given you attention. 

I'd also look into nosework activities for him to engage in. Put that sniffer to good use & make a game of it. Sometimes it really helps to have the mindset of 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!'. 

And, finally, if you **absolutely, positively* NEED to take him walking with his nose off the ground, you could consider conditioning him to happily wear a head halter for walks. That way you could keep his nose up when necessary - but PLEASE! make sure to allow him lots and lots of frequent breaks to "go sniff" if you do go this route.


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

What are you goals? Simply to stop the excessive sniffing? Or to stop the sniffing altogether?

I allow my dog to sniff as we walk, but the moment his actions hinder his working ability or make me need to stop and wait for him, that is when it is an issue. He can sniff all he wants, but it cannot interfere with his duties or hinder forward progress. 

Again, I'm training my dog to be my service dog, so my goals may not be the same as yours.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

You're using a shock collar to train a service dog?


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Sassy and Max were sniffing fairly normally but when I stopped talking to them clearly they were stressed by my change in behavior so sniffed longer and more obsessively. Forbidding something makes it more desirable for sure. I was allowing sniffing but forcing them to leave. Changing it around so they knew I appreciated them leaving was a huge shift in my attitude and sure dropped their stress level. 

Imagine there is something you must do but nobody approves of it? Think left handed people forced to be right handed. You are forbidding the dog to use what is likely his most important sense and he is frantically trying to get it in over your disapproval.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Wait. Someone is actually recommending a shock collar to combat sniffing and inattentiveness ??? Good grief. 



parus said:


> You're using a shock collar to train a service dog?


 Apparently. Not as a punishment though, but for reinforcement .. because that is how they are supposed to be used.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

I let my dogs sniff all they want on walks. I would never correct for sniffing, that's cruel. It's obviously something that he enjoys doing. I have a "lets go" command when they need to leave a spot alone and carry on.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

jade5280 said:


> I let my dogs sniff all they want on walks. I would never correct for sniffing, that's cruel. It's obviously something that he enjoys doing. I have a "lets go" command when they need to leave a spot alone and carry on.


I taught Chester a ten-second rule. If he gets focused on one spot (particularly when he is looking at a place to mark or not), I count down from 10 out loud and then say "Okay, walk on" in an upbeat but definite tone and a slight tug on the leash as needed. I can't figure if he actually understands my counting down by now or if he just has learned to judge that time frame himself, but he almost always finishes his sniffing or sniffing+marking before I have to tell him to move along.

Eva wasn't a sniffer when I got her and she's slowly developed a sniffing habit on walks with Chester (learning from the guide I guess) and it is great. Instead of pulling like a freight train the entire time, she sniffs and observes and works her little mind a bit and only pulls half the time and yet the walk ends up being more tiring for her than when she drags a person behind her for a few miles


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

parus said:


> You're using a shock collar to train a service dog?


Only as a reinforcement. I got one specifically with vibrate and tone, so I only use the stimulation when the tone or vibration do not draw his focus away from a distraction and back on me/the task at hand.

It is a modern collar with 10 different levels of stimulation, which I also tested on myself so I know exactly what he feels at each level.

The old collars that only have the "shock the hell out of your dog" level, and the owners who have no idea how to properly use them, gave the rest of them a bad name. 

I also only use the lowest setting possible for him to respond (like someone tapping a person on the shoulder when they zone out), which is usually a 3 outside. He doesn't wear collars inside the house.

The collar is NOT used for punishment, only reinforcement of a training and is followed by positive reinforcement and treats when he responds.

Just like leashes, when used properly, they are a very useful tool. However, when used improperly, leashes can also cause serious harm.


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

petpeeve said:


> Wait. Someone is actually recommending a shock collar to combat sniffing and inattentiveness ??? Good grief.


Only depending on what his goals are. I allow my dog to sniff and smell all he wants, as long as it does not interfere with the task at hand. It also has a tone and vibrate mode, so stimulation is not necessary when either of those get his concentration back on me/the task.

Improper use of any tool can be extremely detrimental and cause injury.
Yanking and pulling on a dog to get it to move or focus back on you can seriously hurt the dog. 

So whether it is an regular collar, a leash, a prong collar, an e-collar, etc., proper use is necessary.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

scorpio948 said:


> Only as a *reinforcement.* I got one specifically with vibrate and tone, so I only use the stimulation when the tone or vibration do not draw his focus away from a distraction and back on me/the task at hand.
> 
> It is a modern collar with 10 different levels of stimulation, which I also tested on myself so I know exactly what he feels at each level.
> 
> ...












You're either using the shock as a negative reinforcement, aka removal of something unfavorable after the display of a behavior, or as positive punishment, aka an aversive or unpleasant action in order to reduce the action it follows.

In general here at least, "reinforcement" without any additional descriptions or qualifiers is usually taken to mean positive reinforcement; aka treats/rewards/praise


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

Shell said:


> You're either using the shock as a negative reinforcement, aka removal of something unfavorable after the display of a behavior, or as positive punishment, aka an aversive or unpleasant action in order to reduce the action it follows.
> 
> In general here at least, "reinforcement" without any additional descriptions or qualifiers is usually taken to mean positive reinforcement; aka treats/rewards/praise


One example:

We are walking and he moves off the the side and starts sniffing an area. I keep walking, but he stays put until the leash it tight. Rather than pulling on him, I give a command and press the "tone" button which makes a beep sound as long as I hold it. The tone is like a tap on the shoulder saying "hey, pay attention." He realizes he has fallen behind and as soon as I see his concentration back on me, I release the tone. Once he is next to me again, I reward and praise him.

If the tone doesn't snap him out of it, I'll use the vibrate (which doesn't shock), if that still doesn't work, I start at level 1 on the stimulation and increase until I see a reaction, which usually happens at level 3, but I always start at the lowest setting and gradually increase so as not to cause pain or harm.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

scorpio948 said:


> One example:
> 
> We are walking and he moves off the the side and starts sniffing an area. I keep walking, but he stays put until the leash it tight. Rather than pulling on him, I give a command and press the "tone" button which makes a beep sound as long as I hold it. The tone is like a tap on the shoulder saying "hey, pay attention." He realizes he has fallen behind and as soon as I see his concentration back on me, I release the tone. Once he is next to me again, I reward and praise him.
> 
> If the tone doesn't snap him out of it, I'll use the vibrate (which doesn't shock), if that still doesn't work, I start at level 1 on the stimulation and increase until I see a reaction, which usually happens at level 3, but I always start at the lowest setting and gradually increase so as not to cause pain or harm.


That's punishment. Positive punishment, in fact. You are adding something (tone/vibe/shock) to get behavior to decrease (less sniffing/not paying attention to you). Looks like there's some negative reinforcement in there too, in that you REMOVE that stimulus in order to increase behavior (paying attention/staying near you).


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## BKaymuttleycrew (Feb 2, 2015)

scorpio948 said:


> One example:
> 
> We are walking and he moves off the the side and starts sniffing an area. I keep walking, but he stays put until the leash it tight. Rather than pulling on him, I give a command and press the "tone" button which makes a beep sound as long as I hold it. The tone is like a tap on the shoulder saying "hey, pay attention." He realizes he has fallen behind and as soon as I see his concentration back on me, I release the tone. Once he is next to me again, I reward and praise him.
> 
> If the tone doesn't snap him out of it, I'll use the vibrate (which doesn't shock), if that still doesn't work, I start at level 1 on the stimulation and increase until I see a reaction, which usually happens at level 3, but I always start at the lowest setting and gradually increase so as not to cause pain or harm.


Your example is one of either negative reinforcement (where something aversive - the tone/stimulation/shock - is removed in order to increase a behavior - attending to you) or positive punishment (in which something aversive - the tome/stimulation/shock - is applied to decrease a behavior - lingering/sniffing). In either case, the dog is 'working' to avoid something unpleasant (whether or not it is causing 'pain' or 'harm') rather than because paying attention to you is more rewarding than anything else.


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## scorpio948 (Feb 21, 2016)

Effisia said:


> That's punishment. Positive punishment, in fact. You are adding something (tone/vibe/shock) to get behavior to decrease (less sniffing/not paying attention to you). Looks like there's some negative reinforcement in there too, in that you REMOVE that stimulus in order to increase behavior (paying attention/staying near you).


So, by that logic, whistling, talking, and commands to get the dog's attention are also positive punishment because you are adding something.

Either way, for some reason, this post thread has become focused on me rather than the OP's question. All I did was offer a suggestion. My views and methods (like EVERYONE ELSE'S IN THIS WORLD) will not be shared by everyone and are not for every dog. There are many paths to the same destination. You can have 10 different dogs and 10 different ways of training, but every way will NOT work for every dog.
Let's get this back on track to help the OP by suggesting options and letting them decide what to try so they find out what works and what doesn't for their specific dog and needs.


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## BKaymuttleycrew (Feb 2, 2015)

scorpio948 said:


> So, by that logic, whistling, talking, and commands to get the dog's attention are also positive punishment because you are adding something.
> 
> Either way, for some reason, this post thread has become focused on me rather than the OP's question. All I did was offer a suggestion. My views and methods (like EVERYONE ELSE'S IN THIS WORLD) will not be shared by everyone and are not for every dog. There are many paths to the same destination. You can have 10 different dogs and 10 different ways of training, but every way will NOT work for every dog.
> Let's get this back on track to help the OP by suggesting options and letting them decide what to try so they find out what works and what doesn't for their specific dog and needs.


It's *positive* if you add something. It's only *punishment* if it serves to decrease a behavior. 

And I think that the reason people have focused on your suggestions is because they have been leaning into the P+ and R- realm, and those should really be avoided with a soft, sensitive and/or anxious dog (such as was described by the OP) And you are personally free to learn and grow from these suggestions as well, if you want.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

scorpio948 said:


> So, by that logic, whistling, talking, and commands to get the dog's attention are also positive punishment because you are adding something.


Not really. Not unless the dog finds those things unpleasant or aversive. 

Positive punishment is adding something unpleasant (painful, annoying, stressful whatever) to get a behavior or action to stop or decrease.

Which is why using a shock collar on vibe or low shock to "page" a deaf dog for example isn't inherently punishment as long as the dog doesn't find the vibe or low shock to be an aversive, only something saying "look at me"

Whereas, if you are regularly having to use even a low level shock to get a dog to stop a behavior like sniffing, then the way you are using it is a form of positive punishment mixed with negative reinforcement as Effisia pointed out. Low level/mild, but it does fall into those categories.

To get back on track for OP to offer suggestions is easy---

Let the dog sniff, don't punish and don't stress. Just take some time to meander down the street on a relaxed walk and let the dog enjoy the walk. After a fair number of walks without punishment or stress, the dog may reduce the sniffing naturally anyways.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Yes. My apologies. I was typing too fast and missed the word "unpleasant". P+ is adding something unpleasant/aversive to decrease a behavior. R- Is removing something unpleasant/aversive to increase behavior. 

The other quadrants are R+ (adding something good to increase behavior) and P- (removing something good to decrease behavior).

The way you're using the collar, even if it's not HURTING the dog and causing pain, it's still something the dog finds unpleasant enough that he wants to figure out how to stop it. If he didn't, then it wouldn't work.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

If you're having electrically shock a dog to get it to pay attention to you under ordinary circumstances and when it's on a leash right next to you, you might want to either rethink your methods, or consider whether working as a service dog isn't its natural inclination, or that being a trainer of service dogs isn't yours.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

parus said:


> If you're having electrically shock a dog to get it to pay attention to you under ordinary circumstances and when it's on a leash right next to you, you might want to either rethink your methods, or consider whether working as a service dog isn't its natural inclination, or that being a trainer of service dogs isn't yours.


Yep this.

To the OP; my dog is basically nose to the ground for our entire walks. I don't see a problem with it. She enjoys it and the walks are for her, not me.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Alright, so I'm not anti-ecollar. I have it and use it for recall, though I do disagree with how you're recommending the OP use it. And it is certainly not reinforcement for the reasons everybody else mentioned. At best it is negative reinforcement, and at worst positive punishment.

But I just had to comment on this: 


scorpio948 said:


> It is a modern collar with 10 different levels of stimulation, which I also tested on myself so I know exactly what he feels at each level..


A good modern ecollar will likely have more than 100 levels. 10 levels is tiny! Mine has 120 levels and going from a level 12 to a level 14 is noticeable to my dog. No way would a 10 level collar have the kind of fine adjustment that you need to use an ecollar properly and humanely.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

double post


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

The keynote speaker at the ClickerExpo conference dinner was from a service dog organization that uses ONLY positive reinforcement. Not even negative punishment, if I was understanding correctly. It was absolutely amazing the things these dogs did, the sheer number of behaviors. All through R+


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## mozzarella (Jan 16, 2016)

Wow, an entire page of people arguing about shock collars even though the mention of it was a sarcastic joke to illustrate a point.

Now the thread is completely off topic and I'm asking for it to be closed.

Reinforcing basic training in the stressful environment where the behavior is occuring seems to be the likely way to proceed, thank you to everyone who stayed on topic.


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## Jen2010 (Feb 12, 2013)

Back to the original question...

Pepper used to annoy me so much with her sniffing when I would take her on walks! She was either glued to one spot and I couldn't move her, or she was pulling at the end of the leash to get to the next great sniffing spot. I have 30 minutes to walk her in the morning before work and she wanted to spend her time sniffing instead of getting exercise!

First we worked on her leash manners. She was horrible with loose leash walking, but I kept up with it and eventually she picked up on it and that's helped a lot. The other thing I've found that works for her is if I pick up my pace. If I'm jogging, she's jogging and doesn't have as much time to stop and get fixated on anything. I suck at jogging though so we only do that intermittently  Also, depending on the area and time I'm walking, I walk in the middle of the street if I can, or at least off the sidewalk. There's less to sniff on the concrete than there is in the grass. It keeps her moving along.

I also realized she has to sniff in order to know where she is and to take in her surroundings. So now I allow her to stop and sniff sometimes, but when I say "okay let's go" she needs to start walking again (usually within a minute). I used treats (really smelly, high value ones) to lure her away from the sniffing area. If that wasn't working I would just hold the treat and wait for her to look at me (even if it's just for a second) and then I'd click and praise and give her the treat. If she wouldn't look at me, I'd settle for her just looking up at all in any direction.

Hopefully some of this might be helpful to you. If you have a hound it could be much more challenging though, you'll have to find some super duper smelly treats that your dog really loves.


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## mozzarella (Jan 16, 2016)

Jen2010 said:


> Back to the original question...
> 
> Pepper used to annoy me so much with her sniffing when I would take her on walks! She was either glued to one spot and I couldn't move her, or she was pulling at the end of the leash to get to the next great sniffing spot. I have 30 minutes to walk her in the morning before work and she wanted to spend her time sniffing instead of getting exercise!
> 
> ...


I know dogs sniff normally, but this isn't normal sniffing.
What you described, like stopping dead and sniffing or going from tree to tree, or sniffing the air, or a street sign is normal of dogs, I understand this.
However, what my dog is doing isn't like that.
A walk is literally a head down rush while never stopping at anything, not pulling, and continuous sniffing of the ground.
Blindly walking until a wall hits him in the face. He's hesitant to even pick his head up off the floor after running face first into it. Then starts doing it immediately after.
It's like a compulsion that he must complete and can't help it.
He's a border collie and not a hound breed.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

mozzarella said:


> I know dogs sniff normally, but this isn't normal sniffing.
> What you described, like stopping dead and sniffing or going from tree to tree, or sniffing the air, or a street sign is normal of dogs, I understand this.
> However, what my dog is doing isn't like that.
> A walk is literally a head down rush while never stopping at anything, not pulling, and continuous sniffing of the ground. Blindly walking until a wall hits him in the head.
> ...


One of my dogs can be like this. It's very frantic and as you said, more compulsion than anything. I do find that it helps to put sniffing on cue - as soon as he finally looks back (takes forever sometimes!) I reward and tell him to go sniff again. Do this long enough in one spot and sniffing starts to lose its allure and you'll get more attention on you. But it takes a lot of repetition.

Is he neutered? Hormone driven compulsive sniffing can happen in intact males sometimes and I know people who have seen a big change after neutering, especially with herding breeds who aren't usually sniffing for prey.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

mozzarella said:


> I know dogs sniff normally, but this isn't normal sniffing.
> What you described, like stopping dead and sniffing or going from tree to tree, or sniffing the air, or a street sign is normal of dogs, I understand this.
> However, what my dog is doing isn't like that.
> A walk is literally a head down rush while never stopping at anything, not pulling, and continuous sniffing of the ground.
> ...


Yes, my dog is head to the ground for the entire walk, like you're describing. I don't find it to be an issue. Why do you want to stop it?


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## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

Sounds like it's just annoying to you and not a real problem. Try to understand that dogs are not humans and it's very natural for them to sniff. And to me, being able to sniff is kinda the whole point of the walk. A walk is not going to really exercise most dogs, it's just getting them out of the house so they stay sane. 

If you are really concerned, hire a behaviorist. Although he/she will probably tell you the same thing. A positive reinforcement trainer might be able to help you work on it - after they tell you it's normal behavior.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> Yes, my dog is head to the ground for the entire walk, like you're describing. I don't find it to be an issue. Why do you want to stop it?


There is a difference between relaxed normal dog sniffing, and frantic compulsive sniffing. It's easy to read this thread and say "whatever, dogs sniff, it's not a big deal". But I've dealt with the frantic type of sniffing with Watson and it's clearly not fun or enjoyable for him either. I have no issues with my dogs sniffing on walks but when he's to the point where it's frantic and it seems like he can't control it, then yeah, it's a problem and we try to deal with it.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

Your added description makes more sense at to why you think this behavior is a problem. I have a dog who does this and she will walk into sticks and prickers because she doesn't look up and screams almost the entire walk because she is so overwhelmed with all the scents. Have you tired bringing treats on your walks and rewarding him for looking at you? If he ignores treats can you use a toy to get his attention?


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I think the real issue here is the dog isn't suited to being a service dog. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and you can't make an extremely anxious dog into a service dog. It doesn't work. You can wreck the dog trying to pound that square peg into a round hole, but it's never going to be the stable, confident dog that you need for service work.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

OP, you could try putting a very small dab of Vick's vapo rub on the end of his nose before embarking on your walk. It may provide some short term relief. Not my preferred method especially for the long term, but it might be a good interim solution while you seek advice and direction elsewhere. ie: trainer or behaviorist

edit: I believe it was a different poster, not the OP, who had ideas of training a service dog and with an e collar ?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

mozzarella said:


> Wow, an entire page of people arguing about shock collars even though the mention of it was a sarcastic joke to illustrate a point.
> 
> Now the thread is completely off topic and I'm asking for it to be closed.
> 
> Reinforcing basic training in the stressful environment where the behavior is occuring seems to be the likely way to proceed, thank you to everyone who stayed on topic.


Mods rarely close threads, and certainly not simply because a poster doesn't like the responses they're getting. Given that you brought up using an ecollar in your original post, whether sarcastic or not, people's response to it is certainly not off topic. People will respond to what you post, and given that tone is very difficult to decipher on the internet, people will assume that you are serious unless it's made very obvious that you are in fact being sarcastic.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> There is a difference between relaxed normal dog sniffing, and frantic compulsive sniffing. It's easy to read this thread and say "whatever, dogs sniff, it's not a big deal". But I've dealt with the frantic type of sniffing with Watson and it's clearly not fun or enjoyable for him either. I have no issues with my dogs sniffing on walks but when he's to the point where it's frantic and it seems like he can't control it, then yeah, it's a problem and we try to deal with it.


Maybe I was misunderstanding the clarification post. Not pulling but sniffing constantly is what my dog does, vs what the OP is saying 'normal' dogs do being sniffing from thing to thing, sniffing the air, etc.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ireth0 said:


> Maybe I was misunderstanding the clarification post. Not pulling but sniffing constantly is what my dog does, vs what the OP is saying 'normal' dogs do being sniffing from thing to thing, sniffing the air, etc.


Mention of running into walls because he won't look up isn't normal. Not even for a highly driven scent hound actively tracking a scent/animal on their way to tree. Neither is not looking up at all. I think she meant he wouldn't respond/stop to HER pulling at him, but even if not... Dog's not all there if it's running into walls.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Mention of running into walls because he won't look up isn't normal. Not even for a highly driven scent hound actively tracking a scent/animal on their way to tree. Neither is not looking up at all. I think she meant he wouldn't respond/stop to HER pulling at him, but even if not... Dog's not all there if it's running into walls.


Damn. Does furniture count too? Luna acts like it isn't even there...


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ireth0 said:


> Damn. Does furniture count too? Luna acts like it isn't even there...


I think maybe you can sort of tell. I mean I wouldn't worry if Thud did it, because he's a slow, deliberate dog and he never stops responding completely. He's pushing through not just blindly walking into. And he regularly tries to walk through things in other circumstance.

But if the dog is entirely zoned out because they're sniffing? Whether it's OCD behavior and frantic or just really dedicated, yeah, you have a behavioral issue that needs some work. Letting the dog sniff is one thing (and a good thing). A dog you can't get the attention of because it's fixated on ANYTHING is not a great scenario. You may or may not choose to let it go or care, but it's well outside the 'dogs sniff' realm of things, and wanting to work on it isn't akin to not letting the dog sniff at all. Dogs naturally do a LOT of things we let them do under some circumstance but don't let them do to the exclusion of failing to acknowledge the outside world/us.


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## Hermes1 (Jan 3, 2014)

Shell said:


> Sniffing is great, it works the dog's mind and makes walks a lot more interesting for them (and more tiring).
> 
> You can work to reduce sniffing to a degree, look up "Premack Principle" for concepts of using sniffing itself as a reward.
> 
> But really, if he isn't dragging you along, he isn't eating things off the ground and he just likes to sniff? That's a reasonable and natural behavior, especially if he is a hound or hound mix.


 


hanksimon said:


> Be aware that whatever method you use, stopping a dog from sniffing is similar to stopping a person from looking at new surroundings ... smells are changing every day.


I agree with both of these. My mindset when I walk my dogs is, while I enjoy being out with them and get some exercise, the walk is really for the dogs benefit and so I happily allow them to sniff.


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## PaddiB (Aug 8, 2014)

This is the type of thread that can get people like me in trouble....because USUALLY before I answer something, I will read, and RE-read the OP's original question. In this case, a mention of the use of a shock collar is not in the OP's post, but I do notice that it has been edited, even though others responding have mentioned that it was..so, okay...working a little bit blind here without TRUTH. If there is any animal on Earth that mimics humans it is the dog. Not only do they mimic our behaviors (as such, neuroses), they unfortunately are the product of our health issues as well, but that is another conversation. 

So what I take from the OP's initial question is that he/she has used negative reinforcement, positive reinforcement, and positive punishment, but she has NOT used the term that sounds so horrible, but which goes hand in hand with positive reinforcement, and that is negative punishment. Sounds horrible, but if positive reinforcement is done correctly, you can't help BUT employ negative punishment. And before everybody has a heart attack, the definition of negative punishment simply means "taking something good or desirable away to reduce the occurrence of a particular behavior." So what does this mean to the OP? It means simply that on her walks with her dog who she says will slam into a wall due to her sniffing, is to simply STOP WALKING if the dog is in that frame of mind. Has he/she tried this? If so, for how long, and for how many times? 

Skinner acknowledges that the success of this foursome depends on the will of the individual doling it out. I believe I've recently given an example of an adult dog I took in who developed a neurosis for wanting attention, and how I finally cured it after trying everything BUT negative punishment. Please note, this was a dog I was highly frustrated with....a dog I was ready to send back to a horrible environment...but I didn't do it. Negative punishment HAS to be a part of positive reinforcement for the whole "positive" thing to work....and for the truly difficult dog, that means investing actual TIME...which I recognize can be difficult for people today that expect immediate results. 

A dog that is obsessed with sniffing? Mozzarella, if you are only wanting a pet, just stop walking, don't address the dog, and it may take a while but only start walking again when the dog is calm. It could take awhile, but you don't need shock collars and collar jerks because what your dog is doing isn't about needing that. You may think that because you say he "knows he is doing something wrong" when you actively hurt him, but obviously this is a false statement, because dogs, by nature when they truly understand something are not vindictive. Most people who try to tell people that their dog is bad because they say their dog "knows" what they do is bad, doesn't really understand dogs or behavior. 

If a person lets a puppy alone in a house free, and that puppy gets in the garbage and makes a mess, and that puppy gets beaten, the PERSON will think they have given a lesson to that puppy. In reality, that puppy has no freaking idea why it got beaten. So the next day and for many days afterwards, when the puppy does what puppies will do, get into the trash, it gets beaten, eventually, it will "look guilty" simply because it has a terrified look on its face when the owner comes through the door, because it has now associated the owner coming through the door with getting beaten, and NOT because it got in the trash. 

Utilize negative punishment for your dog who you say will run into a wall, and who you say will only stop with physical intervention (whether that is by a shock collar that you may have deleted from an original post, or your foot and hand that still remains....try just STOPPING and allowing your dog to understand "calmness." Of course positive reinforcement (food, etc) won't work, because his sniffing behavior is more positive than whatever you can offer NOW. Employ simply removing what he deems as positive. Which is access. It is not quick. It is not a push of a button to give him a shock. It will take some time if YOU are invested and consistent. This is about YOU and not the dog.


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## Hector4 (Sep 16, 2013)

Didn't read all the comments. I have a rescue friend that has 2 working SAR hounds. She uses the halti or gentle leader to keep one of the hounds under control. The only way to walk her and not be dragged is to keep her nose off the ground. That hound has insane drive. This lady has no desire to work on loose leash walking what not because the dog is a working dog.


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