# do I have a Lhasa Apso or a Shih Tzu?



## Gizm0 (Mar 13, 2008)

I feel like an idiot asking this question but i want to know! The two are so similar 

I was told he was a Lhasa Apso when I got him but I'm not sure... and I've been doing some research and looking at differences between the two and the biggest one I've seen is the length of the snout. 

Lhasa's have a longer snout while Shih Tzu's have a smaller one. Gizmo looks like he has a very small snout and comparing his pics to others on google he looks more like a shih tzu...

Also his temperament is closer to a shih tzu's. he LOVES everyone is never suspicious of people. 

here are some pics of him



























Any ideas? I don't care what breed he is I just want to know so I can watch out for health issues for each particular breed.

Thanks


----------



## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

Hmm.. from the pics it's still kinda hard to tell. I would say Lhasa. Does his tail curl up and to the left when he's standing? Here's some pics of the lhasa's in our family: 

This one is of Chelsea, my father in laws dog. It's not a very good pic but it's the only one I have of her.









This is a pic of my mother in law's dog Sugar. She's wet and in the tub, but you can see the length of her snout pretty well in it.









This one is my dog Zoey, a different angle on the snout..









I was going to try and find one of her tail curl, but I dont really have any >_< Looking at your pictures again, you could really have either breed. It's hard to tell because it looks like he recently had a hair cut. But, either way he's really cute!


----------



## Gizm0 (Mar 13, 2008)

Binkalette said:


> I was going to try and find one of her tail curl, but I dont really have any >_< Looking at your pictures again, you could really have either breed. It's hard to tell because it looks like he recently had a hair cut. But, either way he's really cute!


thanks! your lhasa's are adorable too! 

yeah its really hard to tell. could be either  

this is the best pic of his tail I could find. his tail is usually poofy and hard to see how is tail is...










any help in determing?


----------



## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

LOL, looks like it could be either one again! Maybe he is a mix between the two?


----------



## Gizm0 (Mar 13, 2008)

that may very well be the case LOL

heres a short youtube clip of him. maybe it will help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HPPYpfhqR8


----------



## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

Hmm.. Yea I see some tail curl in the video. I noticed he acts like a Lhasa, like when he sits and his tail slowly un-curls.

Interesting: I just read on wikipedia that they were bred in Tibet, the same place that Lhasa's were bred! They must be very closely related, lol.


EDIT: Here's a video of Zoey doing her first tricks too  This was about a month ago, but maybe it will help you see some similarities or differences.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrOBwcbyyMQ


----------



## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I would actually bet he's a poorly bred Shih Tzu or mix. 

First, pet-quality/puppy mill shih tzu are frequently particolor (they're MORE common than solid dogs, IME). Lhasas DO come in particolor with large patches of white, but solid or sabled colors with white toes and chests are more common. 

Secondly, his eyes are very large and prominant, and he's definitely a bracheycephalic dog- which he shih tzu is, and a lhasa should NOT be. He's got very long legs and a straight front, but again, you know he's not a good example of the breed. Shih Tzus are one of the breeds that's very commonly mixed by designer dog breeders, so he might well have some poodle in there, too, which would explain his legginess.


----------



## Gizm0 (Mar 13, 2008)

Binkalette said:


> EDIT: Here's a video of Zoey doing her first tricks too  This was about a month ago, but maybe it will help you see some similarities or differences.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrOBwcbyyMQ


firstly, that video made me jealous. gizmo doesnt know how to roll over  he knows how to shake and lay down at least 

couldnt tell much by the video but thanks posting it 



Dogstar said:


> I would actually bet he's a poorly bred Shih Tzu or mix.
> 
> First, pet-quality/puppy mill shih tzu are frequently particolor (they're MORE common than solid dogs, IME). Lhasas DO come in particolor with large patches of white, but solid or sabled colors with white toes and chests are more common.
> 
> Secondly, his eyes are very large and prominant, and he's definitely a bracheycephalic dog- which he shih tzu is, and a lhasa should NOT be. He's got very long legs and a straight front, but again, you know he's not a good example of the breed. Shih Tzus are one of the breeds that's very commonly mixed by designer dog breeders, so he might well have some poodle in there, too, which would explain his legginess.


I wouldn't be surpised at all if he was mixed or inbred. Bought him from a "reputable" breeder which now i know, isn't. I didn't know any better back then either  

I would love to get his dna sampled so I can truly find out what exactly he is but those tests are sooo expensive.


----------



## KintaroLove (May 21, 2008)

hehe looking at gizmo makes me happy and sad. He looks exactly like my dog Dede, who passed away last year, after having her for 16 years. She was a Shih Tzu.

She had the same exact face, markings and those big eyes. Except she wasn't as leggy.

I know that didn't help. But just happy to see that face.


----------



## AlleyLuvsLuLu (Jan 12, 2008)

Either way your dog is a cutie.. The breeds are so similar its hard to tell with your dog. Lulu always gets mistaken for a shih tzu. She definately has the lhasa apso attitude.. I have included a pix below.


----------



## CrusaderFool (Feb 12, 2009)

We have both a Lhasa Apso and a Shih Tzu. They are very similar, both from China and with the Pug are considered the Chinese royals, as they were all lap dogs of the emperors. 

I sometimes think the Shih Tzu is a cross of the Lhasa and the Pug as they have the long hair of the Lhasa but the long legs, bowl eyes and short, flat snout of the Pug. 

I would say without a doubt you have a Shih Tzu. I can always tell the difference and owners are often surprised because the two are so often mistaken. Since you have a Pug you can see the similarities to your Shih Tzu. If you look at Binkalette's Lhasa's they tend to have a "cute little girl" look to their face, like ours, while your puppy tends to have a "little old man" look like all of the Shih Tzu's I have seen (including ours). 

And Gizmo is not necessarily badly bred. All of the Shih Tzu's I have seen (and they are a very consistent breed) have the longer legs and the slight build like the typical, healthy Pug. The Lhasa's tend to be stockier and have shorter legs. While I have seen Lhasa's as large as 24 lbs., Shih Tzus are typically 9-16 lbs. The "teacup" Shih Tzu is not officialy recognized and is considered poorly bred. Also the Shih Tzu's are better at self managing their food intake, while the Lhasa's and Pug's tend to overeat.

All colors are considered acceptable in the Shih Tzu's but because of a misguided effort to breed for the gold and white other colors are hard to find. So the black and the black and whites are now sought after as they improve pigment in breeding. Also the black face is a benefit as the typical tear staining is not as evident. 

The Lhasa was bred as a guard dog and with their great hearing they would notify the larger, outside dogs of strangers. This makes them very loyal to their owners and inquisitive and fearless, yet chary of strangers. On the otherhand Shih Tzus (at least ours) can be fearful of the unknown and yet they are all very friendly to people, known and strangers alike. This is primarily why they are currently a very popular breed.



So, based on all that which do you think is the Shih Tzu, the angel or the devil?



















I think your Shih Tzu is adorable in that typical way they have and I think you will love it.


----------



## MyRescueCrew (May 8, 2008)

I've seen many Lhasa's, and I have a Shih Tzu and a Shih Tzu mix (with we believe Pekignese). Your baby looks more like a Shih Tzu to me, though a bit taller. My Shih Tzu "Jake" also has a longer snout, and not as nearly as "smush-faced" as some Shih Tzu's that I've seen. Triumph, on the other hang, we think is Shih Tzu and Pekignese mixed, though he MAY be full-blooded, we don't know. He was a rescue as a younger puppy around 6 months, and his dewclaws had been removed, which means he most likely came from a breeder. So we don't know if he's full blooded or was a "designer" mix. Either way, his snout is MUCH flatter, and very smushed into his face.

This is Jake, my full-blooded 11 year old Shih Tzu:



















And this is Triumph (don't mind his face being trimmed entirely too short), my 1 year old, possibly mixed, Shih Tzu:










Unfortunately, some Shih Tzu's and Lhasa's are hard, if not impossible, to tell apart. A DNA test may be your best bet in trying to unravel the mystery.


----------



## rogueslg71 (Dec 6, 2007)

looks like a shih tzu more than a lhasa. heres my baby , shes a lhasa apso: 
(this thread is a great excuse for all of us to show pics of our cuties )

























she has to be the center of whats goin on - even if shes just going to sleep!


----------



## Gizm0 (Mar 13, 2008)

thanks for all the helpful replies. appreciate them. 

Kinda crazy just how close the breeds look. I am also leaning toward Shih Tzu as his personality is just like what ive read shih tzu's are like. 

Maybe in a couple of years when I have more money ill get a DNA test and ill finally know LOL.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

If I were to see the pictures of your baby, I'd just automatically think shih tzu. Though those breeds all look the same to me.


----------



## DJsMom (Jun 6, 2008)

WoW! I never realized how much the 2 breeds look so much alike!
All the above pics are just adorable!


----------



## tecjunkie (Nov 1, 2009)

Hi there, just registered and your dog looks more like a Shih Tzu. I have a Shih Tzu who looks similar. His name is Nemo and he is brown and white instead of black and white. Your dog's tail curls similar to his as well. However, I would look at the temperment of the dog as well. Is he friendly to strangers? Most Shih Tzu's are. To me, the Lhasa and Tzu both look alike and are adorable. 

Tecjunkie.


----------



## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

Wow, now that I look back at this thread, I have to say, he is totally a shih tzu.  It's his face.. It is difficult to tell the difference between the two breeds though... Did you know the Shih Tzu breed began by the breeding of Lhasa Apsos with Pekingese?


----------



## Baileyby (Oct 17, 2009)

Hi,

My dog (Bailey) is actually Shih Tzu X Lhasa Apso mix. Its really difficult to tell sometimes. Bailey looks like he is more Shih Tzu, but his brother looks just like a Lhasa Apso.... and they came from the same litter.

Your dog looks to be more of a Shih Tzu to me...but maybe it's a mixture.

According to http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/tibetanterrier.htm , the two dogs are actually decendants of the Tibetan Terrier. So they should have very similar features.

The best way to find out for sure is to get a DNA test.


----------



## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

actually if I remember correctly the shih tzu is mearly the crossing of the lhasa and a smaller chin style breed (like the Pekingese) to make a more plesant lap dog as the lhasas of old were rather assertive verminators and temple guardians and not the cuddly beasts we wanted them to be. 

Te difference between lhasa and shih tzu is size (lhasas are bigger all around and longer in leg) and the lasha has a boxy snout versus the shih's pushed up brachiocephalic muzzle. Sometimes Lhasas are referred to as the larger meaner shih tzus.

This dog seems to me to show more physical qualities of the lhasa. Esp. when you see that the pic you posted second shows that there is no pushed up nose on the fella you're asking about, and he has mile long legs. What's his personality like?


----------



## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

lol.. don't tell Maggie she's supposed to be mean.  Zoey either for that matter..

http://animal.discovery.com/videos/dogs-101-shih-tzu.html
http://animal.discovery.com/videos/dogs-101-lhasa-apso.html


----------



## gabry (Jul 18, 2011)

Gizm0 said:


> I feel like an idiot asking this question but i want to know! The two are so similar
> 
> I was told he was a Lhasa Apso when I got him but I'm not sure... and I've been doing some research and looking at differences between the two and the biggest one I've seen is the length of the snout.
> 
> ...


looks to me that your dog is more of a lhasa apso than a shih tzu, you can tell more from the profile photo, (first and second photo) the nose is longer the shih tzu has a turned up nose and it is placed between the eyes the lhasa's nose is lower and the snout is pretty much like a normal dog, but he can also be more of a mix of the two.







this is a photo of my shih tzu as you can see the nose is set up high, the profile is flat no snout showing. his face is flat like someone hit him in the face with a frying pan LOL But funny thing is he never snores and breathes good!


----------



## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> actually if I remember correctly the shih tzu is mearly the crossing of the lhasa and a smaller chin style breed (like the Pekingese) to make a more plesant lap dog as the lhasas of old were rather assertive verminators and temple guardians and not the cuddly beasts we wanted them to be.?


If you look back at the history of these breeds, in truth, the Lhasa, the Shih Tzu and the Tibetan Spaniel were all called the "Lion Dog" and, just as Cocker Spaniels and Springers used to be sorted out of the same litters according to size, so did these breeds (in Tibet). The Monks kept the most refined lines, but there are historical accountings that point out that to the Tibetans these were varieties, not separate breeds . . . with the refined Pekingese being a close cousin through exchanges of breeding stock with those in China. The Japanese Chin is also a descendent of the same landrace. The breeds themselves were not established as separate and refined until the Brits took them to the U.K. and even then they were registered as one for a length of time.

There is record of Pekingese in the foundation of the Shih Tzu and crosses further along, which make complete sense as far as I am concerned as the Monk's Lhasa Lion Dog would have had infusion from the Chinese Lion Dog (Pekingese) throught history. - http://www.manchushihtzusociety.co.uk/pekingese_cross.htm 

Lhasa Apsos and Lhasa Lion Dogs (Shih Tzu variety) were entered and judged together until the mid 1930s, with the Shih Tzu standard not written until 1938.

http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Breed-Center/Toy-Group/Shih-Tzu/Overview.aspx

_



"There are Apsos and what are known in the West as Tibetan Spaniels everwhere…. In every colour, typical of the breeds as we know them, but only a few Apsos have been brushed … As soon as I arrived in Kathmandu, I was contacted by Mrs. Prabka Rana who is trying to get the Apsos and the Spaniels sorted out and registered with the Kennel Club… Ama Rana certainly knows her dogs and we spent an interesting time inspecting the various specimens to decide which were reasonably pure. She explained, as did most Tibetans, *that they do not recognize the spaniel as a separate breed*, and it is called a short-haired Lhasa Apso (emphasis added). They frequently mate the two together and all efforts to prevent this practice have failed . . . The answer is always the same. “*It’s our breed and we should know*.”"

Click to expand...

_http://www.moniqueswebdesign.nl/dlap/cassandra1.html

_



"The smooth and the long haired coat are one and the same dog, which throws huge questions out as to how the Lhasa Apsos (long haired) and Tibetan Spaniels (smooth coats) becames separated and why. An English show/breeder told me that in the 1950s her friend was there when dogs arrived into England from Mr. Tenzin Norgay’s Breeding Programme and they were sorted into ‘short and long haired’ dogs and given separate names. However, furthering on that, I have seen smooth and long haired Apsos treated exactly the same way by the Tibetans and also LARGE and SMALL ones. We have called the large ones Tibetan Terriers! It is true that the Tibetans prefer the small long haired dogs as fancy gifts for people, but they also adore the funny, frisky nature of the smooth coat, as it a feisty little dog and different from the long haired.

I fail to see the point of separating these dogs, apart from the obvious conclusion that three new breeds were better than one! . . . "

Click to expand...

_http://www.lhasadogs.com/OldNewComparison.html



SOB


----------



## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

He looks like a Shih Tzu. Most Tzus out there don't have the correct flat face; they have a little more muzzle on them.

Gabry- Your boy is gorgeous. I RARELY run across people with the correct very flat faced Shih Tzu. 

My boy Gingerbread is from a pet store and I think he's adorable and a very good quality Shih Tzu, but he does have a little muzzle. Honey Bun is from a breeder and faces don't come any flatter than hers.

Here's a pic of them together:


----------



## Sparrow (Jul 17, 2011)

Your dog looks like a shih tzu, in my opinion. I had a shih tzu who was NOT show type. That was fine. I wanted a nice pet & I got one. She played like a pup until she was 12 years old & started to slow down. We had to put her down just barely shy of 17 years old. She raised my working dog pups & taught them a good number of things. She was fierce. But she was not a pup who would have done well with just anyone. She was a bit of an alpha personality & I think the breeder was hopeful that I would be willing to have a go with her. She picked me & I was not surprised by what was under her little fluffy hood. Her bossy nature came in handy on more than one occassion but I'll have to say, if ol' Tip didn't like someone, I watched the close. For the most part she liked everyone, she loved to make people laugh. She was amazing with the elderly. Just amazing. She was also the dog in the house that the working dogs loved to play pranks on... of course she'd chase 'em & threaten to eat their tails off but she never did any harm... but those big dogs would tuck tail & act terrified  It was part of the game. 

Many of Tip's traits were more similar to the Lhasa but she was a shih tzu. She'd was quirky & stubborn but if anyone came in the house uninvited, she led the charge. One of the things I valued (one of the long list of many) was her keen sense of hearing as she would alert to an issue long before the working dogs. So she kept them sharp. I've had her alert on things in the hen house long before the livestock guards & SHE was in the house.

Loved my zoobie-doobie-tzu  Gives me a little squeeze around the heart. Ol Tip was a once in a lifetime dog. Boy I sure miss her. Hug your Tzu for me


----------



## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

Does this help? http://www.smalldogsparadise.com/small-dog-breeds/shih-tzu-vs-lhasa-apso/

Looks more like lahasa, just has a shorter than avg snout, but I do not know the breeds very well.


----------



## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

luv2byte said:


> Does this help? http://www.smalldogsparadise.com/small-dog-breeds/shih-tzu-vs-lhasa-apso/
> 
> Looks more like lahasa, just has a shorter than avg snout, but I do not know the breeds very well.


They did a good job of describing the differences, but didn't post any pics. I've studied Shih Tzu for about 5 years now and I strongly believe the dog in the picture is a Shih Tzu.


----------



## gabry (Jul 18, 2011)

luvntzus said:


> He looks like a Shih Tzu. Most Tzus out there don't have the correct flat face; they have a little more muzzle on them.
> 
> Gabry- Your boy is gorgeous. I RARELY run across people with the correct very flat faced Shih Tzu.
> 
> ...


Thanks Luventzus, glad you like my baby boy, his nose is very high no muzzle at all, I am not expert but from what I read from researches the face should be flat, I know that they often breed Shih with Lhasa, and maybe one of his ancestors was a Lhasa so he is a shih tzu with a slightly lhasa nose trate, but I could be wrong, I also have his daughter and she is flat as well, this is Chanel she is now 8 months old, flat like her daddy.


----------



## DarionLee (Nov 29, 2012)

i honestly don't know which breed your dog is, but it looks just like my dog Uli, and i mean almost identical, which i've never really seen before. when i bought him the breeder told me he was pure bred shih tzu but i didn't purchase his papers to know for sure unfortunately. i wasn't sure mine was a pure bred either because my dog also has long legs and a longer snout. he is very tall and gangly, but he is just a character and i love him no matter what breed as well. here are some pics of him, hope they work.


----------



## DarionLee (Nov 29, 2012)

i still can't figure out the posting pictures thing, but i uploaded an album on my profile of pictures of my dog. if you have the time you might want to take a look. our dogs look identical :]


----------

