# Shock Collar for Dog chasing cars? (and digging holes)



## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

We live on 3 acres, lots of room for the dog, the back of the property is fields and woods (beyond our property line) 
Unfortunateley however, the frontage has a fairly busy road, people often go too fast.. and Akira just LOVES to chase cars... 

If I am out there with her, recalling works most of the time, but if she is out alone, she will wander into the road and chase cars. 

An underground fence would be a great idea, and we would like one, but it's aprx 2k to install one, and we just don't have that kind of money. 

My thoughts on a shock collar are that I would use it without using any vocals ect.. the idea would be that the car is causing the shock, not me.

The same idea would be put into place for her consistent hole digging. Use it from inside, when she starts to dig, use it. 

I understand dogs dig, it's in their nature, just like chasing.. but she has well over 3 acres to play and explore. It's not like she's chained up on a line and is digging out of boredom. She'll dig 4 ft down, just for the hell of it. 

My fear with a shock collar is that it will malfunction and cause severe burns or something. She's a very sensitive dog, I would think even a vibrate setting would work for the holes... but something with a bigger punch (shock) would be needed while she is pursuing a car. 

What are your thoughts on this idea?


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## mrsahunter86 (Feb 6, 2013)

Why not just fence a portion of your yard for her?


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> She's a very sensitive dog,


Does using shock on a sensitive dog sound like the correct path to follow. Then add a person that has no experience with the collar. Just not a good way to go.


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

I would not invest in an underground fence system not always the best fit for every dog, We live rural and didn't want an obnoxious looking fence to take away from the view so we did the 6X8 post with 5'x16' horse panel for fencing.. Looks really nice.

you mentioned this:
_I understand dogs dig, it's in their nature, just like chasing.. but she has well over 3 acres to play and explore._

And it is true if we don't engage in activities with the dogs they will go and find their own activities they can do without us. and that is where digging and chasing cars can develop with such intensity that it becomes the only thing they look forward to doing.

Don't know anything about shock collars as they were designed to benefit training situations. I only watch people who don't know what they doing use them and really screw up their dogs.. So am no help in this area...


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I don't understand...
Is it THAT big of a hassle to keep the dog on a leash/tie out and supervise her?

Just don't leave your dog outside alone. It's that simple. If your dog lives inside, this is not hard to do. Be outside with the dog when she's out there.

You have a sensitive dog. The shock collar will likely cause her to just quit. And by quit I mean your dog will probably just shut down. 
Digging + pain = afraid of the yard. Chasing cars + pain = afraid of cars/road (and while I realize this is pretty much your goal, you could get a dog who hates cars and tries to go for them harder, or a dog that's afraid of cars period. That'd be a real pain when she needs to go on a car ride.) 

Your dog has no business outside alone on an unfenced property. Go out with your dog. It is not hard.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Think about your goal for a second. You want her to believe cars cause pain. So what happens when you need to take her somewhere? 

If you have the time to shock her, you have the time to tie her out.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

One thing that might help the car situation is to take your dog to a very high traffic area, of course while having the dog well secured with a leash.
I believe this falls under the umbrella of flooding, but those with more experience can correct me if I'm wrong.

But the point is, there are *so many* cars that she can't possibly chase them all. In that situation cars would hopefully become less novel and more 'part of the background.' Reward for paying attention to you, do simple commands like Sit, do some loose leash walking.... Gradually move to working in an area with slightly less cars. When you get to a place that has low traffic, the odd car or two coming down the road will STILL be novel. From the dog's point of view, nothing much is going on and suddenly this single speeding object comes barreling down the road... pretty exciting stuff! But with the work done in a high traffic area, work with her below threshhold in a low traffic one. Get her attention and maintain it BEFORE she gets that look in her eye and tries to go after the car. Work at a distance at which this would be possible. (*all of this happens on a leash*)

And get creative. Sounds like she has a pretty great prey drive, so maybe when a car is approaching you can redirect that energy onto a flirt pole or tug toy. That way whenever a car comes she looks to you, not to the car.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

I own a shock collar and have nothing against them, but I would not use one on a sensitive dog. I would just put a long line in your yard to hook her up when you cant be with her.


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## ABBYLAB (Jan 30, 2013)

Akira223 said:


> We live on 3 acres, lots of room for the dog, the back of the property is fields and woods (beyond our property line)
> Unfortunateley however, the frontage has a fairly busy road, people often go too fast.. and Akira just LOVES to chase cars...
> 
> If I am out there with her, recalling works most of the time, but if she is out alone, she will wander into the road and chase cars.
> ...


We are in very similar situation as you with acres of property all around us and the goal of letting Abby be as free as we can. The closest paved road is approx 200 yds from our property and we've trained her to avoid that area. Only once did she venture to the road when she saw a friend walking their dog there. She loves to dig holes but luckily she doesn't have any interest in chasing cars... with the only exception being the neighbors truck when he comes home. She'll follow him (dirt road) to his house so he'll let her boyfriend out to play (black Lab named Cole)!

I understand what you want to accomplish and I would give the collar a try, first on vibrate, then maybe a low setting if vibrate didn't work. I'm not sure about it working on the digging though. A lot of people associate the collar as cruel so before I tried it on Abby I applied it to myself all the way up to max. the low settings were next to nothing...the high setting was very uncomfortable, not knock you down uncomfortable but bad enough that I didn't want to do it again! The collar never worked for Abby cause even with the long prongs attached we had a hard time getting skin contact with her thick fur. We never got around to shaving her neck and it was just as well as used other methods to train her so the collar was a waste of money for us.

I don't think many people appreciate how great it is to be able to let their dog have some freedom with proper training. Before we got Abby I made up my mind to train her to be the dog we've always wanted... and she is. We are well aware of the dangers involved and between our neighbor and us we keep an eye on the two buddies. When she isn't playing with Cole she goes unleashed on nice long walks, hunts for bunnies and squirrels, just lays on the front lawn or maybe digs some holes! We tell her all the time that she "has the life"!

As I'm typing this Abby and Cole just wandered off to his house in the new snow.

Good luck and post your results.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

ABBYLAB said:


> I don't think many people appreciate how great it is to be able to let their dog have some freedom with proper training.


I think many people do appreciate it but as you said, proper training is required. Glad it has worked out for you.

But for the OP, who said this: "If I am out there with her, recalling works most of the time, but if she is out alone, she will wander into the road and chase cars." I would say if the dog's recall is only good "most of the time" then it should be on a leash or long line "most of the time" until its recall gets better. And seems to me like this dog's training is not yet complete, if there ever is such a thing. So I have no idea why the OP would let it out alone to chase cars on the road...


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## ABBYLAB (Jan 30, 2013)

Canyx said:


> I think many people do appreciate it but as you said, proper training is required. Glad it has worked out for you.
> 
> But for the OP, who said this: "If I am out there with her, recalling works most of the time, but if she is out alone, she will wander into the road and chase cars." I would say if the dog's recall is only good "most of the time" then it should be on a leash or long line "most of the time" until its recall gets better. And seems to me like this dog's training is not yet complete, if there ever is such a thing. So I have no idea why the OP would let it out alone to chase cars on the road...


Yes, until the car chasing can be controlled she would need to be tied or leashed for her safety.

We also worried about Abby chasing quads/motorcycles which drive the area more frequently than cars. As a pup she was scared of them but now she really doesn't pay them no mind. Now the Cross Country teams who run by the house in the spring are a different story!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> but if she is out alone, she will wander into the road and chase cars." I would say if the dog's recall is only good "most of the time" then it should be on a leash or long line "most of the time" until its recall gets better.


Maybe I'm missing something, how good the recall is means nothing if the dog is alone there is nobody out there to call the dog.

A dog alone, is a dog alone, is a dog alone, is a dog alone, is a dog alone, is a dog alone, oh you get the idea by now.

Let's see how that works, I take a dog outside and put him on a down stay now he's alone, then I leave for a 3 week vacation. If the dog stays he's dead by the time I get back from vacation. Of course I have met trainers who when asked how long their dogs will stay give the answer until I release them

Basically isn't this the same program when dog is alone and not suppose to run out in the road.

The above sounds kinda silly and stupid.

I know I would not leave a 7 yr old child alone for an extended amount of time near a road, The child, you would think should be much smarter than any dog. Course if the child isn't smart enough maybe some shocking with no vocals would get the job done.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

The ONLY time I have use a shock collar for aversion training was when I lived in an area with a copperhead problem. Snake-aversion, as in NEVER going near a snake again was the goal and for that it worked fabulously. 

If you want that dog to NEVER go to the road again, great. If, however, you plan on taking him on a walk along it, or otherwise going on it (your car, even, maybe) you're going to dilute that message. You're going to condition him to NOT be fearful/afraid/avoidant of the road (or flood the lesson right out of him), and then you're back where you started.

And while it might be nice to teach him just not to CHASE you don't want him standing in it, either. 

So... I see no potential gain, here? Finish teaching and proofing recall and supervise your dog. I let my dogs off leash. If I live in an area where it was safe to allow them to romp around the yard without risk of being a pancake, then I'd do that. I'm not as protective and cautious as many posters here. But loose dog + road + no supervision = BAD IDEA. with or without e-collar training.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> But loose dog + road + no supervision = BAD IDEA. with or without e-collar training.


Say it again.


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## EdDTS (May 30, 2012)

You'd be better off using the shock collar to turn your dog into a robot with their "low level stimulation" training than making it scared of cars and dirt.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

ABBYLAB said:


> As I'm typing this Abby and Cole just wandered off to his house in the new snow.


Wait, did I read this right? Your dogs just left your property while you're typing this?

I would shit my pants. This is how dogs get lost, how they get shot, get poisoned, get hit by cars, get stolen, get attacked, get injured, bother someone else, the list goes on.


How hard is it to put your dog up? Is letting your dog wander around worth putting their life in serious danger?


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## ABBYLAB (Jan 30, 2013)

HollowHeaven said:


> Wait, did I read this right? Your dogs just left your property while you're typing this?
> 
> I would shit my pants. This is how dogs get lost, how they get shot, get poisoned, get hit by cars, get stolen, get attacked, get injured, bother someone else, the list goes on.
> 
> ...


First of all if you would have read the whole post we have 1 dog. My neighbor has a dog she plays with. They travel from our property to theirs (abutting) where they stand little chance of getting shot, poisoned, etc, etc. You should calm down and not pass judgement on a situation you know little about. How hard is it to put my dog up...she is an inside dog, has the run of the house, and on most days gets to play with her best buddy outside for a while, in fact they both will come in the house for a bone, get some attention, and go over to the neighbors for the same treatment. I can't imagine a better situation and wouldn't change it for the world!

Now back to trying to help the OP with their problem....we are trying to help here, right?


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

in my opinion shocking is almost 99% of the time the wrong answer. the only time its correct is to put the collar on your self and every time your dog fails to follow your command shock yourself. I bet you get a pretty good command quick becuase your going to be focused to avoid the pain. because you know that a failed command means a shock. your dog isnt human it cannot understand this.. that supposed to be a semi humorous anecdote I know the humor doesnt come accross well in typing. 

that said shocking a sensitive dogs is a really bad idea as a few have mentioned above. some may learn that when you are going to let them out with that collar on it ,means "get ready for punishment" some may just shut down and refuse to go out. can you train a dog this way. I'm not going to lie absolutely. but some dogs are smart enough that they will figure out that it only applies when they are wearing to collar at all other times they can do what they want. do you want to be slave to the collar for life?

until your dog gets 99% on the recall command you should have it leashed. and you shoudl definitely not use the command if you think its not gpoing to work because the dog learns the irrelevance quickly. how fast can we teach sit? in very few sessions dogs can master it. so unlearning or learning irrelevance can happen just as fast. the dog can learn the command only applies when it wants to really fast. so I recomend really nailing the command solid before allowing your dog off leash. one of the biggest failures in teaching the commands like this is lack of distractions when teaching. another is failing to tech proper name recognition. you want your dog to look at your or come to where they can see you every time you say their name. not the same as a come command but you absolutely need to have the dogs attention. one of the easiest ways for that is have another person sit in a room with you and both have a clicker (or however you train honestly clickers are best for this because its the easiest most accurate way to mark the look) just talk back and forth and throw your dogs name in the conversation randomly not in a command tone say it just like the rest of the words. when your dog looks at the speaker of the name click and treat. your dog is going to learn really fast that looking at the name means payday. and you want looking at you to be more rewarding than chasing cars, so jackpots and high value treats when distracted are not a bad idea.

once you get the look nailed down. wait till your dog is a distance from you and say their name. they are going to look, and guess what they will most likely do when you dont click and treat them? most likely walk over to you to figure out or remind you why you havent treated yet. look at that, the recall command just became the dogs idea. click and treat when the dog gets to you. do that a few times. turn around and face the other way when saying your dogs name so the dog has to come around to the front of you. once your dog is coming to you to remind you to treat every time you say their name then add the command I honestly reccomend changing the command to something new, your dog has already learned that teh command your using means most of the time or sometimes, I want you to have a new command that means everytime. just keep doing what you are doing adding the command you want as well once your dog begins his approach to get paid. you know he/she is coming to you already make it work for you. do that for a while to get that solid. each dog is different thats why I always say do that untill they seem to get it or for a while because I cant tell you exaclty how many reps its going to take for your dog to get it. then try dropping the name when your dog seems aware of you and just use the command if it works click treat, if it doesnt DO NOT REPEAT the come command. say the dogs name when he looks then say it. and if he takes 1 step towards you click, he is going to finish to get his reward. eventually you can wean it back to only clicking when he is all the way back. 

important notes.

train the look at name everywhere you can go places and start over even if he is nailing it everytime when you get to a new place. you wan thim to know it means the smae thing everywhere indoors outdoors here there down the street in the store. you need to generalize this for your dog. (honestly this should be done with every command since dogs dont generalize well until they are taught to. a dog that has a lot of experience training may generalize better but its not gauranteed.)

NEVER say your dogs name for punishment. or when you are mad at them because they wont look. your dog knows you are mad and the tendancy to avert eyes is strong in dogs to avoid aggression.

stop training when it is still fun to leave your dog wanting more.

never ever ever keep training if you start getting frustrated. 

as for the digging teach her where to dig instead of punishing her for doing it. take her to where you want her to dig this is where capturing comes into play. catch her digging where its allowed and reward it. when she starts digging in an area you dont want her to use another command that you have solid to get hor do do another behaviour thats fun for her. she will learn that in ceartain areas these actions are ok digging is not rewarded. unfortunately digging is the reward a lot of times so you need to use jack pots for the other actions in the non digging area to teach this is good here. warning your dog may start digging everywhere to find out if its rewarded. but once your dog learns it gets more reward for digging in specific areas than it does in others it will start to only dig in the allowed areas. dig boxes are great for that. I'm not going to explain dig boxes it would make this post longer than it already is and oyur probably tired of listening to me already. but google around or get some other peoples ideas on dig boxes.


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## ohbehave (Apr 20, 2012)

I have no problem with an electric collar, either.

Most dogs are annoyed by the feeling of electric stimulation. I am, too. I have put it on myself... the thin skin on the underside of my forearm... and use that as a general, and unscientific notion of what the dog experiences.

The stim can be adjusted to an undetectable level. My dog is sufficiantly annoyed by the simple vibrate (with no shock) and I have used that. Once she was 90% reliable on her recall under outdoor distraction, I introduced the vibrating e-collar to clean up her genetic, intense obsession with small prey animals. 

But let there be no mistake, it is something that the dog wants to avoid or escape EXACTLY as if it were being shocked. So if you have a (ethical) problem with electric collars, you have a problem with my vibrate collar. If you disagree, then you have an _emotional_ hangup about the idea of "electric shock!" rather than a logical one.

Some dogs are not nearly as biddable as other dogs. They are more concerned with squirrels than bacon, for example... or your loving approval. 

So what's worse, a dog that must be tied up when outdoors? (a lifetime sentence)....or a reliable dog that has the freedom to soar?

I do not relish the idea of newbies handling an electric collar (without careful consideration of the principles involved), but I also don't like the misapplication of the aversive stimulations that are available to all owners with or without an e-collar..... tugging on the leash, prong collars, hitting, shaking a loud can of marbles, water spray, scolding, etc. etc..... all of these are commonly misapplied and are as unethical as an e-collar if poorly used.

The e-collar is probably easier to mis-use, though... just press a button....and that is a problem.


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## MollieLoo95 (Feb 24, 2013)

I would recommend trying a citronella spray collar. It is advertised as a "bark" collar, but I don't see how it wouldn't work for other behavior problems. It works by shooting a spray of citronella at the dog's face--which doesn't harm them but they hate the smell. Here's a link to one on amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Petsafe-Premier-GentleSpray-Citronella-Anti-Bark/dp/B0002D31QU/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1363530459&sr=1-1&keywords=citronella+spray+collar


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

I've learned a lot from this thread, and I'm really disliking the idea of a shock collar. A vibraton perhaps, but no shock. 

I understand why she is digging now. 

I don't want her banished to a line. She hates it, and so do I.

Fencing the property or an area is not an option. 

I think part of the problem of whats happened here is that we've just had a really bad winter. As a result, I suppose you could say I've gotten lazy about going out with her. Trying to treck through snow as deep as your waist with a dog on a line wanting to pee in the woods or chase a squirell, leads to a mouthful of snow. I mean hell, I was walking her yesterday in a grassy field that froze over with ice, slipped on it and dropper her lead. It's dangerous out there!! You add the factor of a 4 and 5 year old alone in the house while you "play with the dog outside" (from their perspective) and well... you pretty much just want to stay inside. 

The snow has begun to melt, we can see some grass now, and I've been playing and working with Akira more. And I've been doing training inside with her daily. "heel, sit, stay, down, up, go to your carpet" 
I've also been doing something new to try and get the whole "being with you is the best thing in the whole world" thing going on (as suggested by someone here) and I've seen a dramatic improvement. 
When I call her inside, I always give her a treat when she comes in (even if it takes her 2 minutes to get here because she's ran off after a turkey in the 15 acre field behind the house) now, every time I call, she's been coming more frequently, rather than giving me that "yeah you'd like me to come inside, but I want you to come out here and chase me" look before she tears off with an ice chunk in her mouth across the yard. 

When we go outside, I work on a fetch. Her favorite thing in the whole world is to have you chase her, so I've been trying to get the idea of bringing her toy back to me and going after it in her brain instead. (put her on a long line, throw the toy, recall with a new sound, treat when she brings the toy back, repeat. She picked up on this real fast, but lost interest in the same breath and layed in the snow with the toy at her chest while she looked all around. 

(She found an electrical cord sticking out from the carpet and chewed through it while I was asleep on the couch, (normally she sleeps on that rug while hubs and I relax on the couch, or work on the computer. It was 1 am and we thought she was asleep.) She got shocked for at least 15 seconds before my hubs lept over her and shut the power off. She's been kind of sore this week a a result so her level of play is down) 

I've been taking her with me everywhere I go, even if she just waits in the car (no more than 5 minute errands ect..) I've even been taking her with me to the bus stop with the kids, and the work I've been doing inside is helping. When I can get her focus on me, and not on the other dog, she will heel on a dime. My hopes (and well if my understanding of what I should be doing with her are correct) is that if I just continue to bring her with me to the stop, she will eventually become calm and behaved. Consistency right? 

Theres an unused baseball field just up the road, it's totally enclosed and the township is keeping it clear and clean despite it's lack of use. Most people just use it for their dogs. I've been taking her there whenever I can, just to let her smell new stuff, see new things. 

[Sorry I guess we've gotten a little off track, but the route of this issue is training and time commitment to the dog]

I've only been letting her out for short periods of time, 5 minutes, this allows her time to do her business, and circle the house a couple times on her patrol route to make sure no bad guys or evil squirells have dared come near the house. And always, treat and cuddles when she comes inside. 

In Conclusion,
More walks, excercise, time for her.
No leaving her outside un supervised, off leashed for extended periods of time. 

Since I've started this change, she's been very happy in the house. Very well behaved, stays off the carpets and shadows me while I clean with a smile and wagging tail.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Is she the dog in your signature? A german shepherd? Cause, one thing you could do, (there is info out on the internet to get you started) is train her pull-- we trained our Boxers to pull a cart and they (so goodnatured and up for anything) pulled our little daughter around in a little wheeled cart (if its snowy you could do a sled) and we would go for long walks and pic nics... Dog and kids together! Problem solved!
In fact I saw a clip somewhere a german shephard was pulling his master in a 2 wheeled sulky, they were going a pretty fast pace!(I tried riding the wagon when both dogs were hitched and they took off running- after a friend of mine-- it was pretty fun, actually)...


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Would pulling a cart be potentially threatening to a breed that is prone to hip dysplasia? 
The thought of her pulling my toddlers is scary... I've seen one too many videos of dog pulling kid=eating dirt. Now when the kids are older.... roller blades for walks... now that could be fun....

And yes, that is the dog in my avatar, 1 yr old GSD


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Akira223 said:


> Would pulling a cart be potentially threatening to a breed that is prone to hip dysplasia?
> The thought of her pulling my toddlers is scary... I've seen one too many videos of dog pulling kid=eating dirt. Now when the kids are older.... roller blades for walks... now that could be fun....
> 
> And yes, that is the dog in my avatar, 1 yr old GSD


Well I have a Bernese Mt dog! They are def prone to hip dysplaysia.. but they are bred for hauling... While agree that I think that it could make hip dysplasia worse, its not going to cause it...
Def need to work up to pulling your kids around (usually you are up front with the dog on leash walking with it while it is pulling...).. Its just a fun excercise for the dog, but they need to get used to it... My Berner is too skittish to pull one at present, and not quite fully developed, although we did practice over the summer with a wearing pull harness and getting hitched to an empty cart..(Then, being a teenager, he ate the cart.)...


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