# Does dry dog food cause bloat/twisted gut ?



## John Bull (Sep 24, 2009)

I have only this minute registered on the Forum, please excuse my question if it is a duplicate thread.

My 6.1/2 year old male, long haired GS weighing 55 kg. dies suddenly a month ago with all the symptoms of bloat. He went from a perfectly normal dog doing all his normal things to a dead dog inside 3-4 hours. It was 1.30 am on a Friday night/Saturday morning when he died following 2 - 3 hours of dreadful vomitimg up his dinner, then thick yellow bile and a jelly. Death came very quick and sudden after a brief lay down with exhaustion.

He had a leisurely evening, just laying around. No exercise or other factors associated with bloat were involved.

This enormous shock from which I have not recovered has lead to me asking these questions ;-

He was fed in the morning and again in the evening with 250 gm. each time of an expensive and meticulously balanced dry food. It is one of the UK`s top brands - James Wellbeloved. We had the adult large kibble, Lamb and Rice as he was a big dog.

We are fairly sure he crunched up this large kibble and did not just swallow it and he was a slow eater. However, this kibble does swell up to twice it`s own size when placed and left in water. 250 gm. swelling up twice the size seems a serious matter to me, but he had been on this food for about 12 months with no previous problems.

QUESTIONS ;-

Does dry dog food pose a high risk of bloat by virtue of it`s water absorbtion and gross swelling in the stomach, producing excessive gas, thereby causing the stomach to twist, with fatal results ?

Is dry dog food in fact a SAFE food for large dogs when given as the only meal ? Is it in fact better to feed them a mix of wet food plus kibble to reduce food swell-up and the risk of bloat ?

Many thanks - John Bull


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I believe dry dog food is perfectly safe, swelling is generally not an issue. Usually if the dog food swells a lot and makes the dog's stomach feel too full, the dog will vomit it back up and its stomach will be empty again.

The risk of bloat is associated with dogs eating extremely fast like finishing a 3 cup bowl of dinner within 30 seconds. Also, dog stomach is stretchy just like ours and can hold a LOT more food than the amount we usually feed them. Since dry dog food is high in calories and only requires a small amount to fulfill a dog's nutritional and caloric requirement.

Plus if he was fine on the food for 12 months, I highly doubt it's the food causing the problem. At least not the food swelling in contact with water.

And dry food is perfectly safe for large dogs providing that they don't swallow their whole meal within 20-30 seconds. Some people like to add some water to the kibble before feeding large dogs so that they eat it slower. Also it's supposed to make the food taste/smell better.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

THe food itself will not cause bloat. However, I have read that if you add water to a food that contains citric acid, it might lead to bloat. 

I would suggest the following:
-Feed smaller meals more frequently - if your dog is really hungry, he'll eat faster
-Put a kong or a large rock in his food bowl to slow his eating down
-Feed him from the floor not from the elevated feeders.

If he is deep chested - like a Doberman (as opposed to barrel chested like a mastiff), then he is more prone to bloat. Also, find out if his relatives had bloat. But the key is to slow his eating down. 

You can have a preemptive surgery done called a gastropexy which attaches the stomach to the body so the stomach doesn't twist. Gas still can cause the bloat but at least the stomach won't twist. Keep an eye out for nausea, vomiting but nothing coming out or vomiting foamy stuff immediately after eating, lethargy or restlessness. His abdomen may be distended too but with some dogs, you can't tell.


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## John Bull (Sep 24, 2009)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I believe dry dog food is perfectly safe, swelling is generally not an issue. Usually if the dog food swells a lot and makes the dog's stomach feel too full, the dog will vomit it back up and its stomach will be empty again.
> 
> The risk of bloat is associated with dogs eating extremely fast like finishing a 3 cup bowl of dinner within 30 seconds. Also, dog stomach is stretchy just like ours and can hold a LOT more food than the amount we usually feed them. Since dry dog food is high in calories and only requires a small amount to fulfill a dog's nutritional and caloric requirement.
> 
> ...


I think everything you have said makes perfect sense.
All the sometimes contradictory comments I have read about bloat on the net state that although the dog makes numerous attempts to vomit, nothing comes up.

OK, well it certainly came up with my dog, firstly his dinner of 4 hours previous, followed by many lots of yellow thick choking bile which we had to pull out at times and slimy jelly or mucous. When he died blood came out of his rear, he had obviously ruptured some vital organ or blood vessel.

I wanted to ask my questions to get peoples oppinions on dry food in respect to risk of bloat, rather like your own comments.

I am beginning to think the problem was a long standing internal medical defect which nobody, including the vets knew about in the absence of an X-ray. Over the years it gradually got worse until it finally popped. 
Hiatus hernia perhaps ?
I would still welcome others to comment on dry food.
John Bull


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

John Bull said:


> I am beginning to think the problem was a long standing internal medical defect which nobody, including the vets knew about in the absence of an X-ray. Over the years it gradually got worse until it finally popped.
> Hiatus hernia perhaps ?
> I would still welcome others to comment on dry food.
> John Bull


Did you as the vet to do a necropsy after his death?

Did the vet ever find any problems during health tests or annual check ups?

I think there are many reasons that could've caused what you describe, sometimes including ingesting a foreign object or ingesting some kind of toxic substance. But either way, I'm sorry for your loss.

There is quite a lot of contradictory info on the net regarding different people and what they believe to cause bloat. It's best to speak with your vet and see if you can come up with some clue about what happened.


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## John Bull (Sep 24, 2009)

flipgirl said:


> THe food itself will not cause bloat. However, I have read that if you add water to a food that contains citric acid, it might lead to bloat.
> 
> I would suggest the following:
> -Feed smaller meals more frequently - if your dog is really hungry, he'll eat faster
> ...


I really do appreciate your comments as I do any others that are kindly made on this dry food subject. Since this tragedy of mine - the pain is as great as losing a son, not just a dog, I have become paranoiac about dry food, eating habits, food swelling, gases and bloat.

FLIPGIRL - I have a question ;- What if my new dog - a Rottie, eats the Kong as well ?
John Bull


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## Kina_A (Jun 8, 2009)

John Bull said:


> FLIPGIRL - I have a question ;- What if my new dog - a Rottie, eats the Kong as well ?
> John Bull


John,

I know your question was intended for Flipgirl, but how would a Rottie eat the Kong? Kongs are made of rubber and you would purchase a Kong intended for the size of your dog.


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## John Bull (Sep 24, 2009)

Kina_A said:


> John,
> 
> I know your question was intended for Flipgirl, but how would a Rottie eat the Kong? Kongs are made of rubber and you would purchase a Kong intended for the size of your dog.


Hello Kina_A,

Gee whizz honey, ya gotta be joking. I have two big Kong`s that my 55 kg. - 121 lb. huge GS had. Apart from old rear tractor tyres or disgarded armored tank tracks, Kong`s were the only indestructable toys we could let him have.

It was "supposed" to be funny and give FLIPGIRL a giggle.
John Bull


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## Kina_A (Jun 8, 2009)

lol, blond moment on my part! I don't think placing a Kong in the bowl with the food would work to slow them down. Mine don't eat fast, but I know that if I placed a Kong in their blowl they'd take it out of there and continue eating.


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## John Bull (Sep 24, 2009)

Kina_A said:


> lol, blond moment on my part! I don't think placing a Kong in the bowl with the food would work to slow them down. Mine don't eat fast, but I know that if I placed a Kong in their blowl they'd take it out of there and continue eating.


Thanks Kina, ya dead right, they would just take one look at the obnoxious thing and chuck it out in disgust, then carry on eating.

I did think you Canadians were bright enough to spot my literal trip-wire, even a dumb Limey would grab that one.
My very best wishes to you - John Bull


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## Kina_A (Jun 8, 2009)

John Bull said:


> I did think you Canadians were bright enough to spot my literal trip-wire, even a dumb Limey would grab that one.
> My very best wishes to you - John Bull


Going on a much needed vacation, I guess the brain is already there!! lol


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

John,
I am so sorry for your loss. I too think there may have been something else going on besides bloat as the symptoms do not really seem to fit...
I have seen bloat happen myself..just this summer at my friend's cottage his dobe developed it.
He simply acted "strange" as the friend described...he brought the dog down to the dock and he was slightly hunched, paced/wouldn't settle, his gums were pale and he had a "tight as a drum" abdomen. I told them to get in the truck and drive towards one of the nearby towns, while the daughter and I called all the vets there trying to find one that was open. 
We finally located a local vet who was able to put a shunt in through his ribs to release the pressure and then the owner's drove the dog into Toronto to the E-vet for surgery. If we hadn't caught it in the time that we did (minutes after the behaviour began) he may not have made it. Thank god he did.
He hadn't eaten his dinner yet at all. We think on one of his runs into the lake, "eating waves" he ingested water and air and that was enough to trigger the bloating.

Even the vets are unsure what triggers bloat in deep chested dogs..as it can vary. They use to say "raise the bowls" and now they say "don't raise the bowls". All I can say is to be watchful for symptoms, keep an anti gas medication on hand to "buy time" and if you ever suspect anything unusual (behaviour as mentioned before) to go to the vet asap.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

John Bull said:


> Hello Kina_A,
> 
> Gee whizz honey, ya gotta be joking. I have two big Kong`s that my 55 kg. - 121 lb. huge GS had. Apart from old rear tractor tyres or disgarded armored tank tracks, Kong`s were the only indestructable toys we could let him have.
> 
> ...


Heehee, you did give me a giggle John Bull! Thanks for the pick me up! (as I am falling asleep during my night shift at work)

They now have EXTREME kongs which are supposed to be the strongest. 

They do have bowls that are supposed to help slow eating...I'm not sure how to describe them but they have 'nubs' (for a serious lack of a better word) that stick up inside the bowl so your dog would have to eat around the nubs. Kind of like the top of a Lego piece. They're plastic and so not as strong as a Kong though.


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## John Bull (Sep 24, 2009)

To CRACKER
I do appreciate your comments very much. I have endured many hardships in my time and have handled them OK, but everybody has an Achilles heel and animals are mine. Blood and gore in a military sense, I have no problem at all, but animals suffering creases me.
Ah well, nobody is perfect and I have no problem with my weakness.
I could not have got my precious jewel to a vet on a Friday night, in 3 - 4 hours he was dead and I would rather him die in our home than in some vets blood wagon or surgery.
He died amongst the things he loved, just like I want to.

All I can say about bloat or twisted gut is that no expert on planet Earth knows a damned thing about it, so it is up to us to enjoy our beloved partners while they are here and live life day by day. Actually I myself do just that.
Thank you CRACKER I really am grateful for your reply
John Bull


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## DogsforMe (Mar 11, 2007)

I have done a lot of research on all things dog since having Tilba & all the things she's eaten that she shouldn't have. What I learned about bloat was if they eat too much kibble then have a large drink of water, the kibble swells. Tilba had helped herself to the cat kibble so I emptied the water bowls overnight. 

Another thing I've heard over the years is not to exercise an hour before or after exercise, to help prevent bloat.

I know 2 people who had/have dogs with bloat. The 1st one lost a wheimarama dog to bloatabout 10-12 yrs ago now. Don't know the circumstances. 
The other was was a 10 y/o standard poodle who had the operation to correct it which cost $7000. She's now about 11/12 & doing well for her age.

Here's a link to the anti bloat bowls. 
http://www.shopping.com/xPO-Brake-Fast-Anti-Bloat-Bowl


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

you can follow all the rules, your dog might still bloat, you don't follow them, you might bloat. 

*shrugs* bloat is a very funny thing. 

My Irish setter breeder feeds her dogs once a day, and soaks the kibble in hot water. Actually, we just run the water over the kibble until the top layer "bubbles" and then feed. I believe she's only had one case of bloat in all her years in the breed.


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