# German Shepherd behavior problems



## Gunsofnavarron (Aug 10, 2013)

I have a 10 month old purebred German Shepherd who we got from a 'backyard' breeder at 7 weeks old. Now, I'm a former Animal Control Officer so I'm VERY familiar with dog behaviors, training, etc. I also own 3 other dogs. An 11 year old neutered male Lab, a 6 year old spade female chihuahua mix, and a 4 year old neutered male dachshund. My lab is geriatric and we had a scare that he may pass soon a few months ago. So, I purchased the shepherd as a large security replacement dog for him. My hope was that the shepherd would kind of 'learn the ropes' from my lab and other dogs as he was raised with them. Of course, I have attempted to trained him as i have all my other dogs as well. Now for the symptoms and why I suspect inbreeding... Right off the bat, even as a young puppy, he has demonstrated severe food aggression to my other dogs. He tried with me as well, but, I quickly corrected that and he responded with me, but not with my wife or teenage children and certainly not with my dogs. Also, with food, he acts like every meal is his last and wolfs it down like he hasn't eaten in months. I've increased his amount and fed smaller amounts more frequently with no results. Also when it gets close to feeding time, he acts aggressively with my other dogs and even will bite them so he can get to his food first. The next biggest problem is fear urination. I've tried all the recommended methods to curtail this also with no results. Any time I go to simply pet him, he pees. I try to correct him, he pees. I raise my voice in any way, he pees. I've never seen this behavior so late in a pups life, especially in a large breed. I don't treat him any different than my other dogs, but he doesn't respond in an expected way. Every time he is petted on his head, neck, or face he tries to nip your hand as you draw it away. Typical shepherd behavior, I know. But, he doesn't respond to correction. I am just super frustrated by all this and am looking for guidance because I really do not want to get rid of him. Help please!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

You need to stop correcting him. He's nervous and fearful and peeing out of fear. Attempts to 'correct' that are making it worse. 

Yes. Shepherds nip. Yes. They need to be 'corrected' but that correction needs to be the removal of your attention, and not anything harsher. Whatever your other dogs can tolerate (and frankly labs are rock solid dogs and can take a lot more than herding breeds). When he mouths at you, just get up and walk away. Ignore him when he's excited and give attention when he's calm. Train in a positive matter where there are no harsh words or physical correction. 

THIS dog needs a heck of a confidence boost. Even his food aggression is fear and insecurity based. Leave him alone while he eats for a while and maybe toss better goodies in. Don't mess with his food while he eats, but from a distance toss really yummy things in until he gains confidence and security. 

Not attempting to sound harsh, but you really are your own worst enemy in this situation. No raised voices. No physical corrections. A lot of dogs do fine with those, but this dog you have now? Doesn't.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

^^Best advice.

Also, inbreeding has nothing to do with his behavior.


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## TRDmom (Mar 3, 2013)

It doesn't sound like inbreeding so much as he was not properly socialized. How were his parents? The temperament of the mother does influence the pups. I highly recommend contacting a dog trainer that really understands dog behavior/psychology, not just 'sit/stay'. I really think that you and your dog can overcome this. *Positive* training methods will work, but any type of rough or loud training methods will only make your dog worse.

The eating habits likely developed during puppyhood (with the littermates). He values his food and doesn't want anybody to take it from him. One way to help curb food possessiveness is to hand-feed. Since he's already having issues, I'm not sure you should try that without a trainer/behaviorist. My pup would gobble his food, so I put in a large (kong) toy that he had to eat around which slowed him down. I would also hand-feed and pet him. Now, he lets people pet him and handle his food while he's eating. He eats in the same room as two other dogs, but any of them would get upset if another came to take their food before they finished. So... to an extent its normal to not want to share food, but you need him to calm down some of his behaviors.

The urination is a submissive behavior. There may have been abuse at the breeders, but it likely is that he was not properly exposed to people (men, women, children, ethnic groups, etc), noises and so on while a little pup. Good luck!


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## Gunsofnavarron (Aug 10, 2013)

CptJack
Thanks for the advice. And, you're not being harsh. However, I try to be very calm with him. He's crate trained and doesn't get to eat until he calms down. I feed him separate from my other dogs trying to curtail the competition aspect. He's never tried to nip or bite any people, but he will growl at anyone but me if they get near his food bowl, or touch his sides or rump while he's eating, but they can pet him on his head just fine? And, you're correct, my lab is rock solid. Even at 11 he's a solid 'second' alpha when I'm not around. I love the German Shepherd breed and have never had any bad experiences with them. What else might I try to boost his confidence level? I do praise for good behavior, but until now have also corrected for unwanted behavior as I did my lab. Effectively canceling each other out I suppose. As far as the urination, I try hard not to be too dominant, avoiding direct eye contact, squatting down to pet him so I'm not towering over him, petting under his chin and neck instead of over the top of his head, all things I learned at animal control for fearful dogs. And, I'm sure he senses my frustration level which I know isn't helping. Thanks again.


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## Gunsofnavarron (Aug 10, 2013)

TRDmom
Thanks for the advice. My wife knows the canine handler/trainer for the police dept. here and he does private training. He's pretty expensive, but I think it would be worth it since I would like to keep this dog. He's really sweet when he's calm and has already developed a great sense of protection over my family which is one of the reasons we got him to begin with. As far as socializing, I have 3 teenagers and they're always having friends come & go and our house is always bustling. I will admit to not walking him as often as I should, but we have a huge backyard and he gets the exercise, just not the social skills I suppose. Again, thanks!


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Gunsofnavarron said:


> TRDmom
> Thanks for the advice. My wife knows the canine handler/trainer for the police dept. here and he does private training. He's pretty expensive, but I think it would be worth it since I would like to keep this dog. He's really sweet when he's calm and has already developed a great sense of protection over my family which is one of the reasons we got him to begin with. As far as socializing, I have 3 teenagers and they're always having friends come & go and our house is always bustling. I will admit to not walking him as often as I should, but we have a huge backyard and he gets the exercise, just not the social skills I suppose. Again, thanks!


Be sure he is knowledgeable in working with fearful dogs. The majority of police handlers/trainers I know are used to hard dogs. Handling.techniques are very different, and will break down a soft or fearful dog. 

Some are fine, and really build up dogs, but the old school guys will make your dog much worse.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

I agree with Juliemule. Many of the people that work with the police dept at canine units are used to harsh methods that, with a strong minded police dog, can work fine. But if you allow anyone to use those methods with your dog could make problems much worse.

Oh, and BTW. A spade, is a suit in cards, or a shovel. Your dog is 'spayed'. I would have thought a ACO would know that, especially because you are "VERY familiar with dog behaviors, training, etc." 

'spade'<-Pet peeve.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

This dog is, literally, scared pissless of you. It is that simple.

What he's doing with his food is called resource guarding and scaring/hurting him or aggravating him while he eats won't fix it. Leave him alone.

Stop "correcting" him. Whatever you're doing, you're causing this dog to be so fearful of you that he is urinating on himself at your very presence. 

You need to be using positive techniques on this dog, not punishment, not scaring him. Fearful dogs can go from something like urination to outright biting to protect themselves and with a GSD that is not going to be a pretty sight.

Whatever trainer you're bringing in, I doubt it's going to help. MOST trainers of police dogs are very harsh and rough. This will not help you. You need to find someone who uses ONLY positive techniques, no choke/prong/shock collars, no hitting, no yelling, no jerking leashes, no physical or mental punishment. Praise the good, ignore the bad, basically. 

Also, since I've seen 'dominant' and 'alpha' several times in this post... you need to know that dog -> human dominance isn't real, and whatever pack mentality you think you've got with these dogs, you don't.


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## amymoonan (Aug 10, 2013)

my 8 month old shepard mix has fear aggression i did alot of research on google and the training has improved him by at least 85% good luck


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Why would an ACO buy a 7 week old puppy from a BYB?

Anyway, dogs do not train other dogs, that's your job. Teenagers in and out of your home is not socialization. Please go to dogstardaily.com and read everything. Then watch every video by kikopup on YouTube. 

You MUST stop any and all correction. And, whatever scares the dog is a correction, no matter what you think about it, and you'll need to stop whatever it is immediately.


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## Gunsofnavarron (Aug 10, 2013)

You know, I didn't post on here to be made fun of or belittled! I'm simply trying to get some advice on helping me train this dog and myself as well. So, screw y'all and your high & mighty attitudes! I still know my old boss personally, I think I'll just release him to be put down. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Well, that escalated quickly.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Gunsofnavarron said:


> You know, I didn't post on here to be made fun of or belittled! I'm simply trying to get some advice on helping me train this dog and myself as well. So, screw y'all and your high & mighty attitudes! I still know my old boss personally, I think I'll just release him to be put down. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!



Some are trying to be helpful. Why on earth would you release him to be killed?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Wow. You would have a dog killed to spite people on the internet?
YOU made him fearful.

Just rehome him. But if you can't do that maybe he's better off being put down rather than in the hands of someone who doesn't care about him. -shrug-


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> YOU made him fearful.


But we don't really know that. Genetics could be playing a huge role here. All we know is that the OP has a fearful dog, and some of his behavior made the fear WORSE....but we really don't know if he caused it.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Xeph said:


> But we don't really know that. Genetics could be playing a huge role here. All we know is that the OP has a fearful dog, and some of his behavior made the fear WORSE....but we really don't know if he caused it.


I do suppose that was primarily assumption. But I do feel that, if nothing else, OP's actions has made the dog far worse.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I agree he made it worse, but I don't believe he was being malicious. He was doing what he thought would help. We'll see if he comes back.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

If the OP is still reading, here is a good page on resource guarding: Treatment and Prevention

And a few links that explain why dog/human dominance isn't a thing:

De-Bunking the "Alpha Dog" Theory
AVSAB Position Statement on the Use of Dominance Theory in Behavior Modification of Animals
Misconceptions of the Mythical Alpha Dog
Wolf expert L. David Mech's site (he helped popularize the whole "pack order"/alpha/dominance thing, but later learned that much of what he believed was wrong)


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## amymoonan (Aug 10, 2013)

Gunsofnavarron said:


> You know, I didn't post on here to be made fun of or belittled! I'm simply trying to get some advice on helping me train this dog and myself as well. So, screw y'all and your high & mighty attitudes! I still know my old boss personally, I think I'll just release him to be put down. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!


you must remember opinions are like ah everyone has one. have been to craigs list its full of this type of person. i for one would like to be helpful and would expect the same according to the rules here oh rules whats that no one follows those anymore. i sent you a private message.my dog was the same way and breeding had a lot to do with it but its more than that this big dog doesn't know hes big and thinks he has to be that way to be safe. I researched fear aggression followed all the advice and did a lot of unconventional training. everyone in the house has to be involved it does work even though you'll say wait this seems backwards. please Google this watch the videos . I too have been concerned about having my cooper put down but hes worth it to me to keep trying. also I bought a muzzle for when I have cookouts or party's. it has saved my sanity. oh and for those of you who want to go off on the muzzle he can eat , drink, and pant it causes him no harm at all. or would you rather come to my house when hes not wearing it


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

amymoonan said:


> oh and for those of you who want to go off on the muzzle he can eat , drink, and pant it causes him no harm at all. or would you rather come to my house when hes not wearing it


Preemptive anger/defensiveness/rudeness, huh? Well, that's a strategy.

I don't think that anyone is going to "go off on" you for managing your dog with a muzzle, especially considering he doesn't have to wear it constantly. Personally, I wouldn't make my dog interact with people at a cookout or party if he was so nervous that he needed a muzzle (I'd let him hang out in a quieter area instead, rather than risk flooding him), but a muzzle is certainly better than turning a fear-biter loose in a group of people.

Here is a great article about thresholds. This info is useful for anyone who's trying to train a fearful or reactive dog. Once you realize that dogs don't learn when over threshold and that frequently going over threshold can really slow your progress, it helps you develop a better training strategy.


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## amymoonan (Aug 10, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> Preemptive anger/defensiveness/rudeness, huh? Well, that's a strategy.
> 
> I don't think that anyone is going to "go off on" you for managing your dog with a muzzle, especially considering he doesn't have to wear it constantly. Personally, I wouldn't make my dog interact with people at a cookout or party if he was so nervous that he needed a muzzle (I'd let him hang out in a quieter area instead, rather than risk flooding him), but a muzzle is certainly better than turning a fear-biter loose in a group of people.
> 
> Here is a great article about thresholds. This info is useful for anyone who's trying to train a fearful or reactive dog. Once you realize that dogs don't learn when over threshold and that frequently going over threshold can really slow your progress, it helps you develop a better training strategy.


 just so we are all on the same page cooper wanted to be out with everyone . I tried leaving him in the bed room all he did was want out. and with that being said he laid
on the floor completely happy with all around with the muzzle. I really think it was like he felt he didn't have to be the boss and just enjoyed him self. like i said hours and hours of training helped a lot all with research and my time and patience. do i think he could still bite yes so i am just cautious . my original comment was for the poster to know he had other options than putting his dog down that's all no anger or rudeness given and apologize if it was taken that way


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

If your dog has to wear a muzzle to be around people, I doubt he's enjoying himself. If he wanted to be social, he would be. -shrug-


As for the OP, nobody told him to put his dog down. He played that card to try and make us, most likely me, feel bad. LoL. He's got PLENTY of other options. It's a matter of whether or not he chooses to act upon them.


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## amymoonan (Aug 10, 2013)

HollowHeaven said:


> If your dog has to wear a muzzle to be around people, I doubt he's enjoying himself. If he wanted to be social, he would be. -shrug-
> 
> 
> As for the OP, nobody told him to put his dog down. He played that card to try and make us, most likely me, feel bad. LoL. He's got PLENTY of other options. It's a matter of whether or not he chooses to act upon them.


well my friend you were not there so you didn't see him laying full out on his side in the kitchen calm and relaxed, with all there and i may have forgot to say we are seeing a vet ophthalmologist because we think he has poor eyesight that was a separate post i wrote and could explain his fears.. he said hi to everyone and only had an issue with my bro-in-law. i know if my dog is happy or not but i really don't want to go back and forth with you my post as i said was for the original poster. the one you tried to put down. so please do me a favor end it here. i just joined this sight and would like to be able to say it a great site. it sounds too much like the people on craigs list that have nothing better to do than pick on honest people looking for help and your not being helpful so let it go thank you hope you have a great day god bless oh and by the way nice looking dog you have.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

This thread is tame compared to a lot of threads around here. People on this site tend to be blunt and honest. People who break the rules (through insults and name-calling) get banned, but there's nothing wrong with some direct honesty. People who are easily offended don't tend to last long here, but people who are able to ignore (or calmly debate) the posts they don't like, and focus on getting and giving good advice, do just fine. 

Sometimes it's difficult to tell when a dog is calm vs. when it's flooded, but the dog's owner is the only one in a position to really know. That said, we can only discuss what people tell us. That means that sometimes, if people are vague or are not good at explaining themselves, we're going to get the wrong impression. Clarify, and don't take offense.


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## amymoonan (Aug 10, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> This thread is tame compared to a lot of threads around here. People on this site tend to be blunt and honest. People who break the rules (through insults and name-calling) get banned, but there's nothing wrong with some direct honesty. People who are easily offended don't tend to last long here, but people who are able to ignore (or calmly debate) the posts they don't like, and focus on getting and giving good advice, do just fine.
> 
> Sometimes it's difficult to tell when a dog is calm vs. when it's flooded, but the dog's owner is the only one in a position to really know. That said, we can only discuss what people tell us. That means that sometimes, if people are vague or are not good at explaining themselves, we're going to get the wrong impression. Clarify, and don't take offense.


well thank you there is so much to tell about him that i guess i was a little vague. I have worked really hard with him like i said so many hours and its still an everyday consistent training. I learned that food rewards when his fear is there and he is barking or growling is to show him strangers are good which is contrary to popular belief that your rewarding for bad behavior but with fear aggressive dogs its not so, and if the fear object be it people or whatever is to close they wont take the treat so you back off a bit further. and try again. its like everything you ( I ) know about training goes out the window he's come such a long way. I just wanted to help the op and tell him what i knew did not want to raise anyone's hair. I have a motto... say what you mean , mean what you say but don't say it mean. thank you all for the positive feedback.I always want to be positive.or at least i try.and again my apologies for getting upset, its a tough subject to be faced with putting down a dog you love.and Ive worked to hard for that. so again thank you.seriously so Crantastic maybe you would not mind helping me out by telling me how to get my 2 dogs pics up on my posts. please TY


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

There are a couple of ways. You can upload them to an image hosting site like Photobucket, then get the photo's url and surround it with [*img] and [*/img] tags. Just remove the *s. [*img]imageurlhere[*/img]  You can get a Facebook photo's url by right-clicking on the image itself.

Or you can add an image as an attachment, which is explained in the board FAQ:



> How do I attach a file to a post?
> 
> To attach a file to your post, you need to be using the main 'New Post' or 'New Thread' page and not 'Quick Reply'. To use the main 'New Post' page, click the 'Post Reply' button in the relevant thread.
> 
> ...


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