# Please help... advice needed for old dog with seizures...



## byathread (Feb 27, 2011)

My dog is a Westie-mix. 20 pounds. A few months shy of 17 years old. Around a year and a half ago she had her first seizure. Short, but she couldn't get up and her limbs were flailing around. A little while later she had a bout with old dog vestibular disease which took a couple weeks to recover from. It was long time until her next seizure (probably around 9 months). Since then, they've gradually increased in frequency and severity. She'll have what seems like a stroke sometimes, twisting and falling over onto her right side but recovering quickly. 

Five days ago, she had a massive and long-lasting seizure, her worst ever. Her body was twisting around, the front half and back half going in opposite directions (she would've been spinning in circles if not restrained). Her neck kept twisting powerfully to the left. Her right eye bulged horribly and both eyes were going in different directions. I thought she was dying. I held her body in my lap in a firm normal dog body position, restricting her movement to prevent her spine or neck from breaking. She whimpered and made grunting/growling sounds, and lost her bladder. When it seemed to have calmed, it hit with renewed force the same way and she peed again. It probably lasted a total of 15 minutes or so. Afterwards, she couldn't get up and her eye was still bulging. She'd try to move but end up flailing and would snap at me when I held on. She was very distressed and upset. Once I was able to carry her without her twisting out of my grip, I had a family member take us to the vet's office.

She started to improve there as we waited in a private room. She was soon able to walk, but one half of her face was lax (the side with the eye bulging) and the other normal. The eye was returning to normal, and by the time she saw the vet he couldn't find anything wrong with it. He looked her over, and she seemed mostly fine though the reaction times he tested for her back legs were slower than for her front legs.

He said he thought, given her age, that she probably has a brain tumor. He couldn't know for sure, since the only way to find out is with an MRI (roughly $1500). He referred me to a dog neurologist who could do that, but apparently even if I get that done it still won't fix anything without taking the next step of chemo or brain surgery. He prescribed her phenobarbitol and valium suppositories and we went home. 

Since then, she's been mostly normal. She hasn't taken the phenobarbitol yet, since I'm hoping to talk with a dog neurologist before taking that step. She's active, eats pretty well, but will still sometimes have sudden difficulty walking at times. Other times she's running around like a goofy but slightly stiff pup.

About 4 months ago, she had a complete cancer screening with x-rays, blood work, and urinalysis done. Most things were pretty normal, as far as the numbers went. She has a collapsing trachea and back arthritis. As well as a case of bronchitis that won't go away. Her teeth are in rough shape, but I've been told by another vet that it's too risky to do a major cleaning on them at her age. She's spayed, too.

Here's a few questions I have...

1. She's on hydrocodone, clindamycin, and aminophillin currently. Occasionally goes through a round of amoxicillin. Could any of these, or this combination be making the seizures worse?

2. Most of her problems seem to focus on the right side of her head. Her vestibular lesion was on that side, and when she seems to have a stroke it's on the right side. Could that be where the tumor is located, or could it be a different problem on that side?

3. Over the last three years, her behavior has changed. She's less inhibited than she was when she was younger, more aggressive at times and rather nervous. Gets easily upset, and very lonely when there's fewer than two or three people in the house. She's more nocturnal, wandering around and discontent about staying in one area for very long. She has a harder time remembering commands, especially "sit." Acts rather senile/spacy at times. Would this be caused by age or mild dementia, or would it be more indicative of a brain tumor?

4. Given her age, is there much I can do to prolong her life? Would she be likely to survive surgery, and would the trauma be worth possibly giving her a little extra time? She gets very stressed out by being handled by anyone other than her owners. Vet visits practically make her go spastic... But she still has a lot of spirit in her, and I don't want to euthanize a dog that still loves life.

5. Are there better seizure medications than Phenobarbitol, or is it the best one to start with? I don't want her totally drugged up so that she can't enjoy anything.

6. Was holding her body still during the seizure the right thing to do?

7. She's not a passive dog by any stretch of the imagination. When she's in pain, she snaps at people. Do dogs with seizures ever get really vicious? What steps should I take to prevent injury to myself?

8. Financially, I'm very limited. I would love to spend thousands on everything she could possibly need... but I just don't have it available. I'm disabled, and everything I spend on her has to be scraped together. Are there any reputable financial assistance programs for veterinary bills? I've tried researching these, but so many look like scam jobs or fake non-profits.

9. I've heard that too much activity can trigger seizures. Is this true? Should she be kept calmer or even very slightly sedated to protect her health?

10. What else could likely be causing her seizures? The vet said there's around 20 different possibilities... but what would be likely?

11. Are there any medications that can fight or shrink a brain tumor?

I'm really in need of advice, recommendations, suggestions, and thoughts from people who've had dogs with seizures...

Thank you.


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## byathread (Feb 27, 2011)

Any help is deeply appreciated...


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

#3 could be senile dementia. Like people, dogs can experience "sundowning", where they get worse at night.

I don't really have any suggestions. The meds you listed wouldn't normally cause seizures unless there was an allergy to one. And then, you'd usually see other symptoms, like the throat swelling, etc.

Seventeen years old is really old for a dog. You've obviously been a great owner. I, personally, wouldn't do an MRI or any intrusive medical procedures on a dog that age, as they don't have a lot of time left, and I don't want to extend their life while putting them through painful procedures like surgery, or dealing with side effects that make them feel lousy. Plus, if it is a brain tumor, there really isn't anything that will get rid of it.

I wouldn't hold her tight during a seizure, but just make sure she isn't where she can bang into something or hurt hurself. She won't break her own neck by spasming. Be aware that dogs can be disoriented after a seizure which may make them more prone to bite. I'd probably just talk to her/pat her if it seems to reassure her.

Heart problems/liver problems can cause seizures. Listening to her heart/bloodwork can rule those out.

She may be also losing her eyesight/hearing which will make dogs anxious. You can use plug in wall scents in different rms to help her know where she is, especially at night, if her eyesight is going and she is having a harder time orienting herself at night.

Rt side of the brain affects the left side of the body and vice versa.

Definitly keep in close contact with your vet. Talk to him about quality of life, and what things to watch for. You may need to ask him to be upfront with you if he feels she is in pain/suffering. Repeated seizures can cause heart damage, so if she starts having more, have your vet check her out.

It's so hard to deal with an aging pet. Unfortunately it is a true measure of our love, not to let them suffer and try to make the right choices for them, even though it will really hurt us emotionally.


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## byathread (Feb 27, 2011)

Thank you very much for responding. I really appreciate you taking the time to read my post and try to help. =)

Her heart is in good shape, just has a slight murmer. Her bloodwork was good too a few months ago, though I think her kidney functioning was a little borderline. 

Her vision's good (just a little clouding from old age), though her hearing isn't quite as sharp as it used to be. I'd never heard of sundowning before, but that sounds pretty accurate. She's calmer during the day.

The vet didn't really seem to have much in the way of answers. Most of what he said was along the lines of "I don't know." Hopefully the neurologist may be of better help when I take her there. 

Her last seizure was really violent. Her neck was twisting so bad looked like it could snap. It really felt like she would die if I let go (I didn't hold really tight, but enough to prevent her body from twisting out of normal range). One seizure she had when I couldn't hold her had her spinning on the ground like a rolling tin can. Very scary to see. During her twisting to the side attacks, she seems to calm quicker when talked to and when at least the front half of her is held. 

Aside from the seizures and occasional attacks of twisting to the right, she's not suffering most of the time. She still gets excited over car rides, food, and barking at strangers who dare to invade her personal space (about an 800 foot radius).

Thanks again. It's very hard watching such a vibrant and active dog decline so rapidly. I want to make the best decisions possible for her so she can enjoy the time she has left.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Generally, seizures that start in old age aren't good news. For control, I've had better luck (in a younger dog who is now an older dog) with potassium bromide than with PB. And the best luck with gold bead implants (holistic vet - it is like permanent acupuncuture. I would keep a seizure journal and look for possible triggers. With my boy, we avoid vaccinations and any food containing rosemary. You could probably do an MRI and it might tell you what is going on, but if it does, it very likely won't be anything you can fix. Enjoy her and live in the present - as the dogs do.


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## buttonlady (Mar 2, 2011)

I feel for you, I have a 14-15 year old Pom mix who had her first seizure about a year ago; I too thought she was dying at the time. She howled like she had never done before and her eyes rolled around in the head; her legs thrashed and when she finally stopped seizing she couldn't walk, she had to drag herself around by her front legs. My vet examined her and determined that the Confortis she had gotten a few days before had lowered her seizure threshold, but that she could also have a neurological condition. He recommended watching and waiting, and she's had three seizures since then, but none as severe as the first. I've made the decision to not place her on phenobarb yet (with my vet's blessing) because it can be very sedating to an older dog (mine also has congestive heart failure and renal insufficiency). With all that being said, I want her to have the best quality of life, and it saddens me to see her getting older and weaker. I feel that as long as I provide her with the best care I can afford, I have fulfilled my promise to love and care for her. My vet also stated that a MRI at a teaching hospital might give us more information, but the risks(sedation to keep her still) and costs would outweigh the benefits, and that age is not a disease, it's a progression.
I love my old girl, and still find joy in her good days, and try to minimize her bad ones. I know that I won't have her forever, except in my heart.
Take care, my prayers are with you.


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## byathread (Feb 27, 2011)

Thank you both. 

I'd read that Potassium Bromide takes months to reach a therapeutic level. Unfortunately, my dog is in need of something that'll help in the shorter-term. I've never heard of the gold beads before, so I'll try doing more research into that option. The only vaccination I give my dog is her rabies shot, since the others seem pretty moot at this point and unnecessarily risky. 

I was actually considering putting her on Comfortis since she's a little flea-prone due to the area I live in, but if that has any possibility of worsening her seizures I think I'm going to stick with Advantage for now. 

Her seizures come on completely randomly, no discernible triggers. One even woke her from sleep. She had a mild attack this morning, twisting to the left, but she recovered fully after about 5 minutes of being held. A seizure diary would probably help at least with charting the frequency and severity of each, so I may give that a try.

Buttonlady, my prayers are with you too. The best gift we can give our dogs is our love and doing what we can for them with the resources we have at that time. I'm trying to do the same thing for my dog as you're doing for yours: minimizing the bad days, and finding joy in her good ones. Your dog is lucky to have you as an owner. Best of luck to both of you.


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