# dealing with phobic people



## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

This is the second time in less than 2 months of having a dog that I've had to deal with dog-phobia in guests coming to my house. 

The first time (and it was on several occasions) it was my good friend's 4 y/o daughter - she was so afraid of Argos (who slept (and periodically snored) on my chaise longue the ENTIRE time) that she completely freaked out. Her mom really wanted her to get over her irrational fear and what better dog than Argos to help with that. But by the last time she came over, she was no better than the first (they moved away in December so won't be coming over anymore).

Then on Sunday one of my husband's oldest friends came over, with his wife. They didn't realize we'd adopted a dog and he didn't think to tell them. Turns out his wife is terrified of dogs. Again, Argos sat on my chair and ignored them pretty much. He greeted the husband because he was friendly, but the wife wouldn't even look at him. I couldn't even go to the bathroom because she was afraid that if I got up, he would get up too and go over to her (she was really relieved when, the one time he got off the chair to stretch, and I called him, he came straight back to me). She says she is phobic about ALL animals, not just dogs. I'll give her credit for sitting in our living room for a few hours. 

This just strikes me as really weird. In my whole life I'd never heard of anyone being afraid of pet dogs. Stray dogs, okay, because they can be unpredictable and there is no one around to control them (and I've heard of it as a thing to worry about, but not a full-blown PHOBIA). But someone's pet dog who is ASLEEP the whole time? How common is this? Do you have friends/family that are phobic about your dog? What do you do about it?


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Phobias are by their nature irrational. So they really can't help their fear.

I have had a friend in high school that was phobic around dogs. She would cry and hide from our dogs at the time, which was a one year old approx. 7 lb papillon puppy and two elderly shelties. She was fine with our other animals but was legitimately terrified of our dogs. 

So we put them away while she was over. It was very simple and imo the most respectful thing to do since we knew she was phobic of the dogs. We crated them or locked them in a bedroom while she was visiting.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I tend to respect people are phobic. My social circle doesn't include many friends who are afraid but does include some family members. I respond to them the same way as I respond to people afraid of my pet snakes. Which is to say I force no interaction and if I know they're coming and care enough about them to let them into my home I do my best to make sure they're comfortable by crating the dogs AWAY from the public areas of the house.

It's weird for me too but I have my own irrational and intense fears - ie: phobias. So I have sympathy.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

My son is afraid of dogs - including our own dog. When we first got Toby it was a nightmare because Toby was an 11-week-old land shark and my son was 4 years old and scared out of his wits. Toby would try to initiate play - M would scream bloody murder and RUN through the house which would (naturally) excite the puppy and cause a full out game of chase-the-weird-screaming-child. 

In the first year of Toby's life, we got EXTREMELY lucky with Toby's natural temperament... M has kicked him (and been promptly punished and told why that is a HUGE no-no and even dangerous to both himself and Toby), M has bit him (again - promptly punished and dangers explained), M has had huge screaming fits about him, wailing that he hates dogs and he hates Toby and he doesn't want anything anywhere near him and so on and so forth... all the while, Toby has never barked at him, never bit him, never growled, never reacted to the abuse my son put him through and even continues to seek out young kids and is all bum wiggles and happy feet when he finds them. 

My son is still a freak about dogs, he doesn't like them - he never has. Even as a small infant the neighbors had obnoxious dogs who they would let into the yard every single time we went out back and the dogs would stand at the fence and bark at us the whole time we were outside - I'm certain this is where his fear of dogs came from. 

With M there really isn't much we *can* do other than make sure he doesn't act out against the dog. It's silly, he's around dogs all the time... Toby (Boston mix), Peanut (Chihuahua mix), Shortcake (Schnauzer), Shenzi and Tyson (ACD mix/ACD), Dexter (Golden Retriever)... and he doesn't act this way to those dogs at all, it's just select dogs at select times and it's incredibly frustrating and embarrassing.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

My SIL is afraid of animals. My husband's family never had animals growing up. She is a great sport and will come over anyway. She won't interact with the animals, but doesn't make a big deal about it. Luckily our dogs are very laid back and don't seek out attention from people they don't know well. I think she is more afraid of the cats since they are pretty unpredictable. I notice that she won't sit on a chair that has a back that the cats could jump on. And ofcourse the cats seek her out because of it. I totally get it since she has no experience with animals, she is nervous around them, but I'm proud of her for not letting her fear control her. But there is a huge difference between a mild fear and a phobia. I can only imagine how scary it would be to be around animals if you had a phobia. I have a phobia of snakes and I wouldn't go to someone's house if there was a loose snake even if they were holding it. I definitely wouldn't sleep in a house with snakes.


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

I should have said - what struck me as weird was how seemingly "common" it is (okay, absurdly small sample size, but still, two people out of the maybe eight who've been here? 25%?). I have phobias too, so I understand about how strong and irrational they are. I would have locked him up if she'd asked me too, she kept saying no, it's okay, just don't let him get down from the couch - and in order to put him in the bedroom, he would have had to walk past her. 

I am a bit surprised how common it seems from these posts! Maybe we will start to let people know before they come over and ask if they are afraid of dogs so he can be in another room.


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

My almost 12 year old has come a long way from when she used to have a panic attack and become completely hysterical at the sight of a loose animal (cat or dog). She is (mostly) comfortable with Buster. He can solicit pets, snuggle with her, she can give treats...but they dont play together. She leaves the room when he gets bouncy. She no longer has panic attacks when we're out and encounter a loose dog. She can pet friendly, calm dogs that are out for walks.

Just after her 5th birthday she climbed into bed with her big sister. Big sister had a cat...a 9 1/2lb Lynx Point Himalayan...that also slept in the bed. For whatever reason (I doubt I'll ever get the real story on this) that night Mana launched herself at my daughters head/face. Mana dug her claws into my daughters head just behind her ears and bit her head leaving wounds in all 3 locations. That triggered the fear...and we've been working ever since to overcome it. 

Even though it was a cat attack that triggered the fear it was generalized to all animals. Small, black/dark animals were more likely to trigger a response than large, white/light colored animals...no idea where the color thing came from, Mana was mostly white/grey.


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## seaboxador (Sep 23, 2012)

Do nothing. Someone else's problem. It's their issue, not yours. Hopefully your friend is a good enough parent to help the child work through her fear. For the oldest friend, from now on maybe you visit them or go out for brunch.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I have a younger cousin (3yo) who is very scared of dogs, because the main dog he's had experience with is a high energy adolescent that's all jumpy-in-your-face which is understandably overwhelming to a child that young. And at that age, it's hard to explain to them that the dog isn't trying to hurt them.

He visited and if Luna so much as -calmly- and -slowly- walked in his direction he FREAKED OUT and started screaming and wanting to be picked up. We saw them again at Christmas when Luna stayed at my mom's with us, and he was much better. He was generally okay with her walking around, but still didn't want to touch her. At one point Luna had zoomies (new place, new people, very exciting) and didn't come near him, but he still got scared because she was moving very fast.

I don't think he has a phobia, but just based on the only experiences he had had- dogs freak him out.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Plenty of people are scared of dogs.

No one we know have an issue with dogs, but if they did I would crate or leash my dogs while they were visiting. A loose dog, even one that's asleep, can be considered unpredictable by people who are scared, and there is nothing stopping the dog waking up and wandering over. If they are in a crate or on leash, they're not a threat.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I would be pretty darn accommodating of someone who had a true phobia of dogs. Like, I'd arrange to do things at their house instead of mine or put the dogs up if they absolutely had to come over. A phobia is different than just not liking dogs, I'm not inclined to make a stand over someone's irrational terror.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

My totally non-scientific observation is that people who grow up or live for quite awhile in a place with many stray or dangerous loose dogs are more likely to be highly scared of or truly phobic about dogs. More likely as in, compared to people that don't have to deal with the potential of a run-in with a strange dog on a day to day basis, not that everyone who lives someplace with stray dogs becomes phobic. For example, when one of my friends moved back to the US after a few years in rural Thailand, both of her small children were petrified of dogs because they were essentially trained to be scared of dogs to keep them safe-- teachers, neighbors, older kids etc would all tell them to avoid the dogs, avoid the dogs. So for a toddler, that kind of thing makes an impression.
So that may in part account for what seems like a high percentage of phobic people that you've had visit you. 

If someone is truly phobic, they cannot control that and while there are treatment techniques that involve exposure to what a person is phobic about, those treatments are calculated and controlled step-by-step so it isn't like just hanging out with a dog will automatically fix the fear (not saying you think this, just that sometimes its a misunderstanding).

If I knew someone was scared, whether phobic or just simply quite nervous, of dogs then I would either have the dogs crated or in a different room behind a real door (not a baby gate) or I would arrange to meet the person at their house or at a restaurant etc. 

Now, if I'm meeting someone who is just uncomfortable or slightly nervous about the dogs, maybe someone that isn't sure about big dogs but likes smaller dogs for example, then I might slowly encourage them to be around the dogs in a controlled manner. Dogs on-leash while walking in the park but no expectation of interaction. Or leashed dogs inside the house. My aunt was originally very scared of the pit bulls but likes dogs in general so I started by leashing my foster at the time and holding her close to me and as the dog interacted nicely with the other visitors, it gave my aunt a chance to relax and gain confidence up to the point of petting the dog easily.


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## Waggintails (Jan 13, 2014)

I always had my two dogs at work in my shop, most people like them but a few were afraid. I'd put the dogs away for them, unless I didn't like them, lol. 
Your house, your rules. You decide who you want over but I wouldn't try to cure their phobia. People have all kinds of issues for a variety of reasons.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I make sure that people visiting my house know I have dogs before they come over, and that our dogs are part of the family, and will NOT be locked away (they are well behaved and friendly). At the ranch we have 5 dogs total (with my two), but when I am staying with my fiancee, its just our two, the puppy is shy and reserved with strangers, but eventually warms up, Josefina is friendly but polite about it and if someone doesnt want to be approached, she usually doesnt, its like she can tell the people that like dogs from the people who dont. But she also has a really good "place" command.

I have a phobia of spiders, but I have friends with spiders, and I dont lose my mind because there is a spider in the room, I have a few friends who have animals that creep me out (birds, spiders etc ...) but I dont expect them to shut their animals away just to suit me, a person who doesnt even live there. They are a part of their family and as a guest, I have to respect that, and I expect the same when people visit my home, where two dogs live. My take on it is THEY live here ... YOU (general you) dont.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm just brimming with surprise, lol.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

seaboxador said:


> Do nothing. Someone else's problem. It's their issue, not yours. Hopefully your friend is a good enough parent to help the child work through her fear. For the oldest friend, from now on maybe you visit them or go out for brunch.


I hate to say this, but on this, I am inclined to agree. When in public, I try to avoid people when I have my dogs, I dont let them off leash where its not appropriate and I teach them not to be attention whores and maul everyone they see for attention. 

But in my own home, I think I have a right, and so do the dogs to be, it is THEIRS and MY house. Like I said, I make sure people know I have dogs, and they make the choice to come over, dont like it? dont come over or I will go to your house. Simple as that. I think we bend over backward to accomodate people enough, I happen to think that should stop when I am in MY house that I own.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

The only thing I have to add to this is that I work in an animal shelter and every few months we'll have someone come through that has a genuine phobia of dogs.

Why... why, WHY. why would you do that. most of those people are teenager/young adult types that come through with their groups of friends who I guess think its SO AMUSING LOL LOOK AT OUR FRIEND SCREAM as they wander throughout the dog area and scream whenever a dog comes within five feet of them on a slip lead. 

The other percentage are parents who have phobic kids that they want to try to help and if we're not busy we really do try to assist- we had a family (dad, mom, sister and elementary aged autistic boy) who started coming regularly to help their sons phobia. They came every weekend over the course of a few months and made progress from son not being able to stand within ten feet of a dog... and ended up adopting one of our abused pit mixes who was very shy and just blossomed with their family. They regularly post pictures and updates on our facebook and it is one of my top five adoption stories in the over two years i've been there


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I agree to a certain extent... if people don't like dogs and choose to come visit me, well I make it no secret that I have a dog and it's her house too. I've had people kind of casually ask/mention if there is going to be dog hair on the furniture and my reply is "Yep!". I make sure she's polite and not on top of people if they're not comfortable with that, but she's going to be there, probably on the couch next to you if you sit on the couch, and there's going to be fur. The only time I confined her with people over was at my birthday when multiple people were eating cake, I crated her with a kong just so everyone could eat in peace, and once everyone was done she was let out again.

That said, if someone is actually phobic of dogs I'd probably just suggest we hang out at their house or somewhere else dog-free. I can't see a phobic person knowing I have a dog and insisting on coming to my house anyway.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> I agree to a certain extent... if people don't like dogs and choose to come visit me, well I make it no secret that I have a dog and it's her house too. I've had people kind of casually ask/mention if there is going to be dog hair on the furniture and my reply is "Yep!". I make sure she's polite and not on top of people if they're not comfortable with that, but she's going to be there, probably on the couch next to you if you sit on the couch, and there's going to be fur. The only time I confined her with people over was at my birthday when multiple people were eating cake, I crated her with a kong just so everyone could eat in peace, and once everyone was done she was let out again.
> 
> That said, if someone is actually phobic of dogs I'd probably just suggest we hang out at their house or somewhere else dog-free. I can't see a phobic person knowing I have a dog and insisting on coming to my house anyway.


This (too short)


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I hate to say this, but on this, I am inclined to agree. When in public, I try to avoid people when I have my dogs, I dont let them off leash where its not appropriate and I teach them not to be attention whores and maul everyone they see for attention.
> 
> But in my own home, I think I have a right, and so do the dogs to be, it is THEIRS and MY house. Like I said, I make sure people know I have dogs, and they make the choice to come over, dont like it? dont come over or I will go to your house. Simple as that. I think we bend over backward to accomodate people enough, I happen to think that should stop when I am in MY house that I own.


I think there is a difference between bending over backwards to "please people" in the case of a freely made choice or preference versus accommodating a need that isn't a person's freely made choice. To me, accommodating a phobia to dogs is like accommodating a medical need. If I can accommodate with *reasonable* actions, like putting a dog away for a few hours (in the case of phobia) or by say, not serving nuts to someone with a nut allergy or using a makeshift ramp for someone that uses a wheelchair, then I will. Reasonable accommodation would be the dog put away for a few hours, unreasonable might be to expect the dog to be off-premises and to remove all the photos of dogs and dog items around the house.

If someone is invited into my house, they are either someone that I like and thus care about the well being of or they are a service worker who is there to do a job and not there by choice so I should provide them with a safe working area. 

You use your example of a spider phobia and yet you can deal with a spider in the room; many peoples' phobia are such that they literally could not deal not just with a spider in the room but even something like an image of a spider or a dead spider etc. I know it will blow your mind, but other people have different experiences in life than you do. 

I'm not trying to change the way you deal with visitors to your house, just illustrating another viewpoint.....


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Shell brought up a good point- if there was a service person or other such stranger that needed to be at my house to perform the service/maintenance, I would confine Luna elsewhere.

That or maybe arrange for my bf to take her out for a walk at that time.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

It doesn't hurt my dogs one bit to spend a few hours in a crate or closed in a bedroom.

If someone with a phobia of dogs wanted to, say, stay at my house, though, we'd probably need to work something out.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> Shell brought up a good point- if there was a service person or other such stranger that needed to be at my house to perform the service/maintenance, I would confine Luna elsewhere.
> 
> That or maybe arrange for my bf to take her out for a walk at that time.


So would I, but thats more for my dogs safety than the person's LOL ... because you never know about people, some people seem nice but ... you just dont know. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Shell said:


> I think there is a difference between bending over backwards to "please people" in the case of a freely made choice or preference versus accommodating a need that isn't a person's freely made choice. To me, accommodating a phobia to dogs is like accommodating a medical need. If I can accommodate with *reasonable* actions, like putting a dog away for a few hours (in the case of phobia) or by say, not serving nuts to someone with a nut allergy or using a makeshift ramp for someone that uses a wheelchair, then I will. Reasonable accommodation would be the dog put away for a few hours, unreasonable might be to expect the dog to be off-premises and to remove all the photos of dogs and dog items around the house.
> 
> If someone is invited into my house, they are either someone that I like and thus care about the well being of or they are a service worker who is there to do a job and not there by choice so I should provide them with a safe working area.
> 
> ...


Huzzah and yes.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

photos of dogs arent a risk to a safe working area, I will put my dogs away for a service person, like I said, more for my dogs safety then the person's. When the shoer is here I put my dogs in the house, because she brings her dogs, and we are working with large, dangerous animals, so its safer for everyone (my dogs included). But si visitor? Nope, sorry, I always make sure they know we have a dog and that the dog is part of our family, like a kid. I dont like kids, but I dont expect someone to put their kids away when I visit their home, because its THEIR home, and their kids live there, I dont.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> photos of dogs arent a risk to a safe working area, I will put my dogs away for a service person, like I said, more for my dogs safety then the person's. When the shoer is here I put my dogs in the house, because she brings her dogs, and we are working with large, dangerous animals, so its safer for everyone (my dogs included). But si visitor? Nope, sorry, I always make sure they know we have a dog and that the dog is part of our family, like a kid. I dont like kids, but I dont expect someone to put their kids away when I visit their home, because its THEIR home, and their kids live there, I dont.


 You REALLY have a hard on for kid hating, don't you?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Dislike or distaste for something /= phobia of that something

It's also reasonable to consider the balance between the degree of effort a host would need to take to accommodate a phobic visitor with the need of that person to visit and the benefits of that person visiting in-house rather than finding an alternative meeting location. 
For example, a casual friend that lives in the same town? Visit at their home or in a public place. 
Business acquaintance having a short meeting? Meet at a coffee shop. 
Long time friend? Crate the dogs.
Grandmother coming from out of town, staying in a hotel but wanting to have a family dinner at one's home? Crate the dogs. 
Someone who is doing a big favor like free assistance with a home improvement project? Crate the dogs. 

In public, if I encounter someone who is showing noticeable fear of the dogs, I will step aside and give them space or ask the dogs to sit and focus on me while giving them space to walk by or such. Safety issue because a panicked person could hurt themselves or others (trip and fall if startled, or step into traffic, or such) and common courtesy to not increase stress and fear in another individual.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

stroop said:


> You REALLY have a hard on for kid hating, don't you?


Well ... I believe, since I am female, that it is physically impossible for me to have a "hard on" about anything LOL


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Well ... I believe, since I am female, that it is physically impossible for me to have a "hard on" about anything LOL


 Figure of speech lost on you?


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

i built our new homestead to cater not only to the dogs but also to people.. My dad's wife is afraid of dogs, and my little sister was mauled by a white GSD... It's bad for the dogs to be around people that are fearful and acting strange.. I have no problem putting my dogs up, and actually feel so much better that the dogs are not subjected to people who are full of worry.. Guess the saddest thing I've ever seen was my a friend who had told her kids that dogs who have fences need to be behind a fence because they are violent dogs that will bite.. She came to my house and her kids couldn't stop crying, they were in hysterics at the sight of my dogs.. It never dawned on this women she might make friends with a person who has a fence system to keep her dogs from getting killed... it was really bad to see these kids..


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Well ... I believe, since I am female, that it is physically impossible for me to have a "hard on" about anything LOL





PatriciafromCO said:


> i built our new homestead to cater not only to the dogs but also to people.. My dad's wife is afraid of dogs, and my little sister was mauled by a white GSD... It's bad for the dogs to be around people that are fearful and acting strange.. I have no problem putting my dogs up, and actually feel so much better that the dogs are not subjected to people who are full of worry.. Guess the saddest thing I've ever seen was my a friend who had told her kids that dogs who have fences need to be behind a fence because they are violent dogs that will bite.. She came to my house and her kids couldn't stop crying, they were in hysterics at the sight of my dogs.. It never dawned on this women she might make friends with a person who has a fence system to keep her dogs from getting killed... it was really bad to see these kids..


I guess it depends on the dogs, mine dont care if someone is in hysterics or not LOL, they just look at them and then go lay down like "Ok ... this person is obivourly crazy" But I have never had a dog phobic person come to my house, I have met them in public, though and there I do try to be considerate because I AM in public, where everyone has a right to be, versus in my house where my rights take pretense. 



stroop said:


> Figure of speech lost on you?


I am wondering why it would matter if I didnt like them or not?


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

If someone is scared of my dog (whether phobic or not) I will crate my dog. Same with my cat. It's courtesy.... and I care about my family and friends.


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

I have found some people with even real phobias can get used to specific dogs. I had a friend that would run screaming from a chihuahua yet had pet Huskies and a Rott mix,as well as a pen pal that did get used to the old Newfie after a day. Now I will take my dog out for short periods if needed,but I also think phobia's do need to be faced. I've had to fight certain trauma I had and am much better off for it,you can't always feed it.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Foresthund said:


> I have found some people with even real phobias can get used to specific dogs. I had a friend that would run screaming from a chihuahua yet had pet Huskies and a Rott mix,as well as a pen pal that did get used to the old Newfie after a day. Now I will take my dog out for short periods if needed,but I also think phobia's do need to be faced. I've had to fight certain trauma I had and am much better off for it,you can't always feed it.


FWIW, I used to be terrified of spiders, to the point where I would have to have someone else kill even the small ones, but living out here, and being in a barn once I was old enough, I can now see a spider and not lose it, I can even kill them (even the tarantulas we sometimes get in our house) without much affect anymore. And I was someone who was irrationally afraid!


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Awesome, maybe you can overcome your kid phobia then, too.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

parus said:


> Awesome, maybe you can overcome your kid phobia then, too.


 Yesssss. Thank you.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

parus said:


> Awesome, maybe you can overcome your kid phobia then, too.


its not really a phobia, but a sensory issue, if you must know. I have found that the people who are mostly offended with the fact that I have an aversion to kids are the people with kids. If I visit someones house and that have kids I dont expect them to put them away because I have an aversion to them, I would expect the same courtesy extended to me and my dogs in my home.


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

It would depend on the person. Since we've had dogs I've yet to meet someone who has a phobia of dogs that I like sufficiently to make alternative arrangements for. When it comes to service people I will happily crate the dog, although since getting the puppy I usually ask if they mind meeting him to help with socialisation, or they have asked to meet him.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Shell said:


> Dislike or distaste for something /= phobia of that something
> 
> It's also reasonable to consider the balance between the degree of effort a host would need to take to accommodate a phobic visitor with the need of that person to visit and the benefits of that person visiting in-house rather than finding an alternative meeting location.
> For example, a casual friend that lives in the same town? Visit at their home or in a public place.
> ...


Too much common sense.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I like my friends and want them to be comfortable visiting my home. It doesn't hurt my dogs to be put in my bedroom for a few hours, so I do that. If a dog-phobic individual wanted to stay here for a weekend, though, I'd probably have to say no.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> its not really a phobia, but a sensory issue, if you must know. I have found that the people who are mostly offended with the fact that I have an aversion to kids are the people with kids. If I visit someones house and that have kids I dont expect them to put them away because I have an aversion to them, I would expect the same courtesy extended to me and my dogs in my home.


I have sensory issues, lots of things trigger me and there are many places I just don't go because of it. I however do not feel the need to turn every single thread into a rant about how much I hate going to restaurants because people (grown adult people who really should know better) can't seem to speak at a normal level and trigger my sensory issues. You however do feel the need to bring up how much you hate children in almost every thread. That takes it well beyond the normal just not liking kids. 

I have a friend who is allergic to dogs, it is in no way similar to just not liking kids. You better believe I put my dogs away and thoroughly clean the house when she is coming over. Sadly she really loves animals and would love to love on the dogs, but if she does her hands and face swell. So I put my dogs away, yes in my own/their home, because my friend is important to me. If my friend had a phobia of dogs I would do similar. There is a difference between a phobia and a general dislike.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

"I will make no accommodations for others, but they'd better make some from me!!!!"

Yeah, no. Life doesn't work that way. 

I'm with the majority of posters in this thread. Making easy allowances and changes for people with legitimate issues is not hard - be that in my home or in public. Expecting people to make major ones, no, but I don't associate with entitled buttheads so it's not really an issue.


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

Since dog phobias seem to be quite common among my acquaintances, here's what I'm going to do. I will let friends know that a dog lives here before they come over (honestly with all the photos on FB pretty much everyone should know by now - it's people's spouses / kids who don't know). If they're phobic, I'll put him in the bedroom. 

I like to accommodate people as much as I can. I feel kinda bad now that I didn't automatically do that before. However I will not take down the large framed photo of our dog who passed away that's in the living room unless specifically asked to. 

This is my dog's home, but he is a sweet, gentle dog. If he knew he was terrifying someone, he'd be pretty sad about it I'm sure. So I think if he could understand what was going on, he'd approve of that plan.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Remaru said:


> I have sensory issues, lots of things trigger me and there are many places I just don't go because of it. I however do not feel the need to turn every single thread into a rant about how much I hate going to restaurants because people (grown adult people who really should know better) can't seem to speak at a normal level and trigger my sensory issues. You however do feel the need to bring up how much you hate children in almost every thread. *That takes it well beyond the normal just not liking kids. *
> 
> I have a friend who is allergic to dogs, it is in no way similar to just not liking kids. You better believe I put my dogs away and thoroughly clean the house when she is coming over. Sadly she really loves animals and would love to love on the dogs, but if she does her hands and face swell. So I put my dogs away, yes in my own/their home, because my friend is important to me. If my friend had a phobia of dogs I would do similar. There is a difference between a phobia and a general dislike.


Yes. That's exactly it.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

MEH i would also like to point out that there is a segment of the population, believe it or not, that has developmental disabilities and/or conditions such as autism. As in, people shouldn't automatically judge the behavior of a random child *in public* without knowing their background.

It just annoyed me to no end yesterday when we had a volunteer come up to me at work and tell me all about a screaming toddler in the lobby, how the parents totally ignored him/her, it was so rude, kids shouldnt act like that, what awful parents, if i had kids they would never do that, ect.

I mentioned that the child could have had a learning disability or other condition and that I was sure that the parents were doing their best at that moment, and the volunteer responded with "Well.....yes.... BUT I never acted that way as a child!"

If I had a bad experience with someone in a wheelchair, it would be a bit presumptuous to comment that "I hate when people in wheelchairs go shopping in a small store, dont they know they take up tons of room in the aisle? They should shop elsewhere because its an inconvenience to me."

If I had a bad experience with a dog, it would be a bit presumptuous to comment that "I hate when people with service dogs go shopping in a small store, dont they know their dog is gross to have in a grocery store? They should shop elsewhere because its an inconvenience to me."

so... why should the statement "I had a bad experience with [a] child[ren]. I hate it when they go shopping in a small store, dont they know that kids are loud and gross? They should shop elsewhere because..." be any less presumptuous?


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Interesting how someone who champions putting kids away and kicking them out of all situations if they so much as move or make a sound wouldn't so much as consider putting her dogs away if someone was phobic! Makes perfect sense!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Eenypup said:


> Interesting how someone who champion of putting kids away and kicking them out of all situations if they so much as move or make a sound wouldn't so much as consider putting her dogs away if someone was phobic! Makes perfect sense!


and because kids that possess the mental ability of, well, kids turn into EXCELLENT people when forced to function at the mental capacity of well adjusted adults...

[no, this is NOT in reference to what people do in their homes. You can insist that people only hop on one foot and speak only in rhyme when they're a guest in your house and aint nobody's feelings gonna be hurt. But don't go into freakin walmart and expect to require the same thing of strangers that happen to be within ten feet of you.]


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Rescued said:


> and because kids that possess the mental ability of, well, kids turn into EXCELLENT people when forced to function at the mental capacity of well adjusted adults...
> 
> [no, this is NOT in reference to what people do in their homes. You can insist that people only hop on one foot and speak only in rhyme when they're a guest in your house and aint nobody's feelings gonna be hurt. But don't go into freakin walmart and expect to require the same thing of strangers that happen to be within ten feet of you.]


That's all I am saying! Geeze!!! Why should I have to bend over backwards for people like I do in public (which I may vent but I really do my best to be cordial, yes/no ma'am/sir when addressing people etc) IN MY OWN HOME! things that happen in public Tick me off yes but I would be gregarious if I expected the world to bend over backwards for me ... I just want to be left alone, really.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> That's all I am saying! Geeze!!! Why should I have to bend over backwards for people like I do in public (which I may vent but I really do my best to be cordial, yes/no ma'am/sir when addressing people etc) IN MY OWN HOME! things that happen in public Tick me off yes but I would be gregarious if I expected the world to bend over backwards for me ... I just want to be left alone, really.


Because most people think that putting away dogs for a few hours to welcome a friend or family member into your home isn't "bending over backwards"

If you don't have many guests, then it is unlikely to be an issue to you. 

As an aside, parents of young children often do "put them away" to accommodate guests who are uncomfortable with kids-- sometime that means a babysitter even when the parents are home, sometimes one parent goes upstairs to read to the kid or have the kid nap, sometimes the parent takes the kid outside for a walk or whatever. I am not a parent and while I like my friends' kids just fine, I am not interested in dealing with a tantrum or such, so my friends, without even asking, will give some space whe there is obvious stess and if someone wanted the same in return in regards to the dogs, I would do the same.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

Re: "However I will not take down the large framed photo of our dog who passed away that's in the living room unless specifically asked to. "

I believe that few people are phobic of dogs to the point of terror ... I'm sure they'd let you know. I think that most folks are simply inexperienced with dogs and scared of them, rather than having a full-blown irrational reaction. For example, unless a child has had a traumatic experience, I think that a child could learn to like or at least tolerate dogs, if the child is exposed to a dog that he/she could control easily OR exposed to a very gentle dog.

I have had experience with one dog-phobic person in this very dog-friendly neighborhood. She saw me walk my dog every day, she could see that he was friendly and gentle. But, when this woman greeted me one day, my dog went over to say hello. The woman got scared and said she knew the dog was friendly, but she was scared of dogs. I got very embarrassed, b/c I had carefully trained and socialized my dog to be good with people ... but he had scared someone in their own yard. I apologized and pulled him away. When I pass this woman's yard, I shift my dog to the other side, so we won't make that mistake again. And, the woman seems to be fine seeing the dog ... as long as he doesn't come to visit her. If she wanted to reduce her phobia, my dog would be good for that. I won't suggest it, but I'm receptive if she asks. But, I will respect her fear as much as possible.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> That's all I am saying! Geeze!!! Why should I have to bend over backwards for people like I do in public (which I may vent but I really do my best to be cordial, yes/no ma'am/sir when addressing people etc) IN MY OWN HOME! things that happen in public Tick me off yes but I would be gregarious if I expected the world to bend over backwards for me ... I just want to be left alone, really.


Just an fyi- when you say things like "the parents of kids think they are special snowflakes but nothing can be further from the truth" it comes across as a blanket statement (as in, not the kind of thing that I would expect you to think only in your house but not in public) that I find totally bizarre coming from anyone who has ever struggled with, well, anything?

IDK maybe I'm just the weird one for having compassion for parents whose kids are acting out, because, well, I'm not a parent?


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

My daughter is autistic. Perhaps I should lock her in my basement to make sure no one like OwnedbyACD's are inconvenienced.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

stroop said:


> My daughter is autistic. Perhaps I should lock her in my basement to make sure no one like OwnedbyACD's are inconvenienced.


I have a feeling that the people on this board with an admitted dislike for children are probably way less "severe" when people encounter them in reality, the internet has a tendency to make people exaggerate.

That being said, I just find the lack of tolerance for kids INTERESTING more than anything. I've always sort of held this weird belief that I shouldn't judge someone unless I've experienced what they have- aka I pass judgement on issues relating to owning a labrador far more than I pass judgement on issues related to raising children.

And now I am really going to stop because I am derailing this thread too much! I will admit that before this thread I honestly had zero idea that there are people who dont ever allow kids in their house.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes in public, I don't have control over other people and I am aware of that. If something annoys me out in public I will just move away.

But in my own home, nope, sorry, my rules.


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## Waggintails (Jan 13, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> I've had people kind of casually ask/mention if there is going to be dog hair on the furniture and my reply is "Yep!".


That's why they call it FURniture.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I can't say I've ever met someone truly dog phobic. Honestly, I likely wouldn't be quick to lock Jackson away for someone, as it's his home and he's pretty much never locked away anywhere in it, he has free roam, and has never been crated. So he would be super stressed and freaking out so I wouldn't want to do that for long periods... but I have no dog phobic friends so I can't foresee it being an issue. If I did, we would likely just go somewhere else to hang out.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I can't say I've ever met someone truly dog phobic. Honestly, I likely wouldn't be quick to lock Jackson away for someone, as it's his home and he's pretty much never locked away anywhere in it, he has free roam, and has never been crated. So he would be super stressed and freaking out so I wouldn't want to do that for long periods... but I have no dog phobic friends so I can't foresee it being an issue. If I did, we would likely just go somewhere else to hang out.


This is what I would do, too. If I had a dog phobic friend, I cant imagine them wanting to come over anyway because everyone knows I have dogs. Coincidentally, most of my friends are also dog people


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Back in highschool, I had a friend who was dog phobic. She couldn't be near any dogs, and if one came anywhere near her, she would scream and run in the opposite direction. Even if a dog was at the other end of the street, she would start panicking. It didn't mater what breed it was or what size it was - they were all terrifying. 

I didn't have dogs back then, but if I were still close to her today, I would have no problem crating the dogs for a few hours while she was over. I highly doubt she would ever come to my house, though, knowing I have dogs.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I have seen far more dog reactive people (not sure if they are phobic or just being over dramatic or what, so I dont know what to think) But if I see someone in public having a reaction to my dogs, if I can, I cross the street, go down a different isle if I am in a store that allows dogs, or something like that. Thankfully my dogs are pretty chill about those kinds of people when we do meet them, but mostly, I have the opposite problem with people wanting to pet my dogs, not be scared of them LOL.

That being said, I also dont have what would be considered a "fear inducing breed" either so maybe thats it?


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Rescued said:


> I have a feeling that the people on this board with an admitted dislike for children are probably way less "severe" when people encounter them in reality, the internet has a tendency to make people exaggerate.
> 
> That being said, I just find the lack of tolerance for kids INTERESTING more than anything. I've always sort of held this weird belief that I shouldn't judge someone unless I've experienced what they have- aka I pass judgement on issues relating to owning a labrador far more than I pass judgement on issues related to raising children.
> 
> And now I am really going to stop because I am derailing this thread too much! I will admit that before this thread I honestly had zero idea that there are people who dont ever allow kids in their house.


 Oh I have no doubt that OwnedbyACD's would never say any of the crap she spouts to anyone's face. 
Fact is, I value my family and friendships over my dog being put away for a few hours. I have someone in my family that is petrified of dogs. From her home country, there is a serious feral dog problem... I'm certain this is where her fear stems from. 
I care about her feelings and would never make her 'suck it up' in order to come to my house. I really don't get people who would? Dogs are not people mmmk. Sheesh!
I ask everyone that enters my home if they are comfortable with cats and dogs or if they are allergic. If they have problems, I accomodate them. There are many people coming through my home on a fairly regular basis as my husband and I are very social and love our friends. I value my social life, some people don't I guess..?


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

Yeaaaah, I tend to value my pets, who are my family, more than other folks. But then I don't particularly like social interaction, and I'm not really friends with anyone who doesn't like animals. And we usually do things to avoid having kids at our place. If there was someone we wanted to spend time with who had issues with the dog and cats, we'd just go out somewhere. The last big party we had the cats just hid upstairs and Annabel was on her leash with me the whole time. That's about as much as I'd accommodate, and that was mostly to protect the meatballs. I don't think that makes me a bad person, it's just the way I prefer my home/life.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

The 'bad person' not, isn't so much in how you choose to live your life and like your home. For me the line is when you start acting like an entitled butthead about it. "I WILL MAKE NO ACCOMMODATION FOR ANYONE EVER BUT THEY BETTER ACCOMMODATE ME AND MY ISSUES"

I don't have many people over, period. I don't really have friends who aren't animal people overall. That's my choice - my pets are more than pets. They're part of our family, part of my social life, a hobby, and basically play a MAJOR role in my life (I'd still put them up for a few hours but that's neither here nor there). But I don't go around ranting at other people who make different choices, or expect allowances for my mental health issues while mocking and dissmissing, mocking, and demeaning other people for theirs. And doing both the demands for accommodation and dismissal of other people with violent language.

And that, in a nutshell, is why OwnedByACDs is getting such a strong reaction here.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Effisia said:


> Yeaaaah, I tend to value my pets, who are my family, more than other folks. But then I don't particularly like social interaction, and I'm not really friends with anyone who doesn't like animals. And we usually do things to avoid having kids at our place. If there was someone we wanted to spend time with who had issues with the dog and cats, we'd just go out somewhere. The last big party we had the cats just hid upstairs and Annabel was on her leash with me the whole time. That's about as much as I'd accommodate, and that was mostly to protect the meatballs. I don't think that makes me a bad person, it's just the way I prefer my home/life.


That's fine if that is how you prefer it... I just don't personally understand it. 
My dog is my pet, not an extension of me... my pet doesn't validate my life. My friends/family, on the other hand, are an extension of me. 
My husband regularly has buddies over while he is practicing for the next jam session and I have become excellent friend with them and their gf's.... board game nights, my kids' friends in and out of the house (we are pretty liberal and hippiesque)... I couldn't have it any other way! 
That all being said- we only have one cousin who is scared of dogs and one good friend that is allergic to cats. We facilitate their preferences. The rest have no issues although we do crate the dog when there are a bunch of kids over because... kids.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

CptJack said:


> The 'bad person' not, isn't so much in how you choose to live your life and like your home. For me the line is when you start acting like an entitled butthead about it. "I WILL MAKE NO ACCOMMODATION FOR ANYONE EVER BUT THEY BETTER ACCOMMODATE ME AND MY ISSUES"
> 
> I don't have many people over, period. I don't really have friends who aren't animal people overall. That's my choice - my pets are more than pets. They're part of our family, part of my social life, a hobby, and basically play a MAJOR role in my life (I'd still put them up for a few hours but that's neither here nor there). But I don't go around ranting at other people who make different choices, or expect allowances for my mental health issues while mocking and dissmissing, mocking, and demeaning other people for theirs. And doing both the demands for accommodation and dismissal of other people with violent language.
> 
> And that, in a nutshell, is why OwnedByACDs is getting such a strong reaction here.


 Yes. 
<too short>


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Not to derail the thread, but it's kind of related.....

I find it more difficult to accommodate friends and family with allergies. Phobia: you can put the animals away, but allergic reactions are difficult to prevent.

I will clean until my hearts content, but I still have a couple friends with severe cat allergies that will have reactions at my house. One of my best friends is dating someone with severe cat allergies and we've never been able to have her over for dinner. We have mainly hardwood floors too. It sucks since we love to entertain.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

d_ray said:


> Not to derail the thread, but it's kind of related.....
> 
> I find it more difficult to accommodate friends and family with allergies. Phobia: you can put the animals away, but allergic reactions are difficult to prevent.
> 
> I will clean until my hearts content, but I still have a couple friends with severe cat allergies that will have reactions at my house. One of my best friends is dating someone with severe cat allergies and we've never been able to have her over for dinner. We have mainly hardwood floors too. It sucks since we love to entertain.


 Depends on the level of allergy I guess. Our friend that is allergic to cats seems to only react when he touches the animal and that would be difficult to prevent as our cat is a VERY social old guy. 
That sucks that you can't have those particular friends over. :\


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

stroop said:


> Depends on the level of allergy I guess. Our friend that is allergic to cats seems to only react when he touches the animal and that would be difficult to prevent as our cat is a VERY social old guy.
> That sucks that you can't have those particular friends over. :\


Yes, with my friend so long as she doesn't pet a dog or cat she is fine. She can even pet just a little and wash her hands but if the dog fur gets in her clothes she will wind up with a rash so I put the dogs up and clean really well if I know she is coming over. 

Honestly I am not just not social I'm anti-social. I have a very limited number of friends and the vast majority are animal people. Even my friend with the allergies likes animals and understands how much my pets mean to me. I do not often have people over, really just one friend who is over all of the time (and sometimes brings his dog so obviously not an issue there). I do watch my friend's foster kids and whether my dogs are out or put up depends on the kids. My friend would keep all 5 of my dogs for me if I needed him to.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Effisia said:


> Yeaaaah, I tend to value my pets, who are my family, more than other folks. But then I don't particularly like social interaction, and I'm not really friends with anyone who doesn't like animals. And we usually do things to avoid having kids at our place. If there was someone we wanted to spend time with who had issues with the dog and cats, we'd just go out somewhere. The last big party we had the cats just hid upstairs and Annabel was on her leash with me the whole time. That's about as much as I'd accommodate, and that was mostly to protect the meatballs. I don't think that makes me a bad person, it's just the way I prefer my home/life.


This.



> That's fine if that is how you prefer it... I just don't personally understand it.
> My dog is my pet, not an extension of me... my pet doesn't validate my life. My friends/family, on the other hand, are an extension of me.
> My husband regularly has buddies over while he is practicing for the next jam session and I have become excellent friend with them and their gf's.... board game nights, my kids' friends in and out of the house (we are pretty liberal and hippiesque)... I couldn't have it any other way!
> That all being said- we only have one cousin who is scared of dogs and one good friend that is allergic to cats. We facilitate their preferences. The rest have no issues although we do crate the dog when there are a bunch of kids over because... kids.


To some people, their pets ARE part of their family, to me, they are like my kids, asking me to lock my dogs away for someone is like someone asking you to lock your kids away (which wouldnt be right either) why is that hard to understand?


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Yes there is a middle ground here. It's not lock up your animals or never have a social life ever.

As has been mentioned, you could go to their home instead, or go out to do any number of activities together, have dinner, etc.

Personally, I would find it rude if a friend asked me to put my animals (cats or dog) away so they could come visit, and I would never think of asking that of someone else. If I'm going to their home, whatever pets they have are part of that home.

My mom is allergic (although not deathly) to cats and dogs that shed and still comes to visit us. I vacuum and clean up the hair before she arrives as best I can, open windows, and have tissues on hand. She still visits, and would never think of asking me to put them away for her benefit.


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## The Feather Duster (Apr 14, 2010)

I think that the reason that people are coming down on you so hard is that you are presenting yourself as inflexible, hard-headed and self-entitled.

Yes, dogs are a central part of our lives for many of us. For others of us with human kids, children are a central part of life and that's how it should be.

But, your attitude of "My way or the highway, in your own home just feels a little ... what's the word ...? unforgiving.

I certainly have (loose) rules in my own home, as in please remove shoes upon entering but I'm flexible about that, depending on who is entering, for what purpose and how long they will stay. And, if shoes stay on for whatever reason, I'll just wet mop the floor later, once they've left. No big deal.

There have been dog fearful and even dog phobes who have come over. Unfortunately, Plume has rather a large bark for such a little girl and she has scared large burly repairmen (makes me laugh a bit since the wild child couldn't and wouldn't harm a fly - still, I have sympathy for said repairman and other visiting strangers).

So, for dog phobes over, Plume just gets a nice long respite on the balcony with closed door where she can sun herself and both Plume getting her tan on and someone who fears dogs, can both feel comfortable. It seems to me lik a win-win situation for all involved.

It doesn't have to be a big or confrontational deal, does it?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

ireth0 said:


> Yes there is a middle ground here. It's not lock up your animals or never have a social life ever.
> 
> As has been mentioned, you could go to their home instead, or go out to do any number of activities together, have dinner, etc.
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree, provided they dont have a medical reason (allergies, asthma etc ...) for needing the dog put away. But as you said, IF I had a friend who had an aversion to dogs, then we would probably just meet for dinner or at their house. we are so remote, no one ever comes out to visit anyway LOL, but I was speaking in hypotheticals, say, when we get our barn built and we started training horses here, the dogs are part of our lives and would come to the barn with us (good desensitizing for the young horses!) and someone wanted to visit, and they didnt like dogs, sorry, not locking my "co workers" away just because someone who doesnt even live here has an aversion to them ... not happening.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> This.
> 
> 
> 
> To some people, their pets ARE part of their family, to me, they are like my kids, asking me to lock my dogs away for someone is like someone asking you to lock your kids away (which wouldnt be right either) why is that hard to understand?


I don't understand the mindset of "my dogs are my kids". It's a little bizarre to me... maybe just now I grew up and how I view animals... as animals. 
Point is that you have repeatedly requested that people bend over backwards for you in regards to children in public, then you ask people to bend over backwards if they want to socialize with you in your home... how about this-- no. 
You can do/feel/say whatever you please, but don't expect everyone to be happy about it and not have an opinion that opposes yours.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

If someone who is dog-phobic was to visit me I'd strap him in a chair so he can watch Soro perform all of his tricks. And then I'd put food in that person's lap and have Soro eat out of it while shouting at the person "SEE HOW HARMLESS MY DOG IS YOU SHOULD LOVE HIM AS MUCH AS I DO. LOOK AT THE DOG. LOVE HIM. *LOVE HIM*." And if that doesn't cure the person then he's no longer invited at my/my dog's house.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

ireth0 said:


> Yes there is a middle ground here. It's not lock up your animals or never have a social life ever.
> 
> As has been mentioned, you could go to their home instead, or go out to do any number of activities together, have dinner, etc.
> 
> ...



I've never had anyone ask. I find it rude to not ask company what their preferences are... after all, they are the ones putting the effort into visiting. Just a thought...


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

The Feather Duster said:


> I think that the reason that people are coming down on you so hard is that you are presenting yourself as inflexible, hard-headed and self-entitled.
> 
> Yes, dogs are a central part of our lives for many of us. For others of us with human kids, children are a central part of life and that's how it should be.
> 
> ...


So much this^^


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Honestly, when my kids were little I did frequently make other arrangements for them when doing things with childfree friends. That really isn't odd at all. My friends wanted to do things like go out to restaurants and movies that really weren't entirely toddler friendly. They wanted to run all day long that would have been far less fun while I drug a 4 year old who need potty breaks and snacks ect. Now if my friend who is essentially my oldest adopted son (that is really how I treat him) was just coming over to bum around the house, eat dinner, play some video games with hubby, watch a movie on the couch, whatever. Nope I didn't make arrangements for my kids or put the dogs up, he loves them all though I have told him my life would be easier if he didn't treat my kids like he was their older sibling. He has been hanging out with my kids since my youngest was 2, if something happened to hubby and I he is the one who would wind up with my kids (and dogs). 

At this point the few friends that really come over and the age of my kids I rarely bother making arrangements as they can be expected to go pretty much anywhere and behave appropriately. Most of my friends ask specifically for me to bring the kids (they like hanging out with them) and around the house my boys are more than capable of entertaining themselves for hours in their own rooms anyway (which is a lot like putting up a dog, except they do it on their own). The average pre-teen or teen really doesn't want to spend hours hanging out with mom and dad's boring friends when they have their own rooms full of toys they could be playing in.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

stroop said:


> I've never had anyone ask. I find it rude to not ask company what their preferences are... after all, they are the ones putting the effort into visiting. Just a thought...


Some of this depends on how you view visitors. I mean I'm nice and accommodating to people who visit but I don't consider them doing me a favor. I don't *LIKE* visitors in my house, even people I love. If they're coming over, I'm putting in effort -a lot of it- by letting them instead of meeting somewhere else, or there's another reason motivating it. But it's sure not because I find their company in my home enjoyable. The reason might be because I love them and it's when/how things work out logistically, might be because I'm hosting an actual event, they might be because they're providing a service for me (that I am paying for).

But they're not doing me any favors, and I'm putting plenty of effort in myself, thanks. At cleaning, providing food, entertainment, and not climbing up the wall and kicking them out, because OMG PEOPLE ARE IN MY SPACE, by putting my animals up if they need it, or by paying them for the service they provided. 

Casual visiting isn't a thing here, anyway. Going by just to hang out was common in the 80s and early 90s and when I was a teenager. The culture has changed. Now? Not really a common thing. There's a reason for it with a pre-set time/date/plan (like formal entertaining) but just coming over to spend time together? No. And as a result I'm not really seeing it as much of a favor for them to stop by, even if I was comfortable. Cultures shift and the one around me has, to the degree that the host is doing the favor by hosting since the visit in home is moderately... well inconvenient for an event and at a drop by? Just rude.

And ftr: I value my kids more than my dogs, and I don't see animals as children. I value people I love a lot, will put the dogs up for the comfort of someone coming to my home. If one of my children or husband became deathly allergic tomorrow, I would rehome them all - 

But I absolutely would not seriously disrupt my animals for the sake of anyone who doesn't live here. I love my friends and extended family and value them a lot but I'm not responsible for their lives and well being. I take that more seriously than manners and being welcoming. Not more seriously than marriage and children, but more than the convenience and politeness of other PEOPLE. Fortunately those other people who love me share that set of values.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

But actually.... I like to try and accommodate people who are afraid of dogs, even if it's not a true phobia. I've had plenty of people come around after spending some time with Soro. And it's never been forced upon the person. The way your dog behaves perpetuates the idea of a 'dog' to a person, phobic or not. And the way you handle your dog perpetuates the image of 'dog owners.' In that sense, especially when I'm around people who are fearful, and I have relatives who will cower and shriek if my dog gets too close... This is what I want to be clear: My dog is well behaved. I am capable of controlling him. I am not the kind of dog owner that needs my dog to be part of this situation. And you know, if all my guests are dog people (the more common scenario) then Soro is welcome to be the exuberant fart that he is.
I count myself lucky enough to currently own a dog that is super chill about being put up, and is highly adaptable in multiple situations. There are dogs with problems too... Dogs that are fearful, can't be contained or crated... And if I was ever in a situation where I had a dog with needs, then I would be working around those needs in the presence of non-dog-loving people. But as it is, I am thankful for having a dog that allows me to work with PEOPLE who are less tolerant of dogs.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

CptJack said:


> The 'bad person' not, isn't so much in how you choose to live your life and like your home. For me the line is when you start acting like an entitled butthead about it. "I WILL MAKE NO ACCOMMODATION FOR ANYONE EVER BUT THEY BETTER ACCOMMODATE ME AND MY ISSUES"
> 
> I don't have many people over, period. I don't really have friends who aren't animal people overall. That's my choice - my pets are more than pets. They're part of our family, part of my social life, a hobby, and basically play a MAJOR role in my life (I'd still put them up for a few hours but that's neither here nor there). But I don't go around ranting at other people who make different choices, or expect allowances for my mental health issues while mocking and dissmissing, mocking, and demeaning other people for theirs. And doing both the demands for accommodation and dismissal of other people with violent language.
> 
> And that, in a nutshell, is why OwnedByACDs is getting such a strong reaction here.


Yup. The world doesn't revolve around you. And you can do whatever you want in your own home, but that doesn't mean people can't dislike you acting like a whiny entitled baby. I guess I can just count my blessings that I don't know anyone like this in real life. I'd put my dog away for someone who is seriously uncomfortable, and would expect they'd do the same if I had a similar fear. Common human courtesy. This is in no way comparable to kids. Kids are peoples LIVES, they're human offspring that grow up to be hopefully functioning adults. A dog is not scarred because he was in a crate for a few hours a week.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

No one in my family is afraid of dogs because they grew up with them, so Luke is quite fine to stay in the living room area when they're over. That being said, though if I knew someone had a fear of dogs and was coming over, I'd put Luke upstairs and have the baby gate near the stairs so he couldn't come down. I wouldn't want to upset them and would want to be respectful of their feelings. I'm allergic to cats and am very thankful that my family members put their cats away when I'm over. 

There are some people in the complex that aren't sure of dogs, not necessarily afraid, but unsure of them. So I either stop walking and let them go with a smile or we walk fast away from them. But these people are from a different country first and I think they're not used to being around dogs like we, Americans, are. 

If anyone comes over to your house OP, I'd put Argos away even if he's not doing anything.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> If anyone comes over to your house OP, I'd put Argos away even if he's not doing anything.


Isnt that kind of punishing the dog, though? Because in all fairness its not their fault someone is afraid.

Also where did I say I act entitled? I dont expect someone to put their kids or animals away if I visit their home ... its THEIR home, THEY are the ones putting the effort to have ME over and, in many cases cook food for ME. So the least I could do is be accommodating to the things that are near and dear to them, whether it be animals or kids or a bird or spiders or whatever. I will even go as far as eat something I dont like (I HATE shrimp, but I will try to eat a dish with shrimp in it if its served to me, esp if the person took the trouble to cook it. instead of being an "entitled butthead" and refusing to eat it, my dislike for shtimp is not an allergy, therefore IMO I dont get to play the "entitled" card and whine about it.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

How is it punishing the dog? Is it punishing the dog when you put him/her in the crate when you leave the house or go to bed at night? Assuming your dog is crate trained and not fearful of the crate/being put in a bedroom I fail to see how putting the dog up for a couple of hours is a punishment to the dog or really even going out of your way at all. If I went to the trouble of inviting a person to my home who I knew was phobic or allergic to my dogs I don't think putting my dogs up for a few hours is really that big of a deal. I certainly wouldn't call it "punishment" for the dog. I don't consider it punishing my kids when I ask my inlaws to babysit them so I can go out with childfree friends for an evening.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Did you forget to crate train? Bennie loves her crate! And no one claims you called yourself entitled, actions speak much louder than words. Whether you think so or not, you are acting very entitled.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Remaru said:


> How is it punishing the dog? Is it punishing the dog when you put him/her in the crate when you leave the house or go to bed at night? Assuming your dog is crate trained and not fearful of the crate/being put in a bedroom I fail to see how putting the dog up for a couple of hours is a punishment to the dog or really even going out of your way at all. If I went to the trouble of inviting a person to my home who I knew was phobic or allergic to my dogs I don't think putting my dogs up for a few hours is really that big of a deal. I certainly wouldn't call it "punishment" for the dog. I don't consider it punishing my kids when I ask my inlaws to babysit them so I can go out with childfree friends for an evening.


For some dogs it is punishment though.

My dogs are fine crated while I'm away. I've watched on camera and they just chill out. 

But if people are in the house, one will screech and yodel till she goes horse because not being able to interact with people who are right there is a punishment in her eyes.

The other freaks out if I'm in sight or home and she can't get to me. Other people home she's fine, but she freaks out if she can't reach me specifically because (what if I fall? Take a seizure? My sugar crashes? My circulation goes kapoot? ) I've trained her to help me in very specific ways with those situations. 

If a person is phobic or allergic I will make arrangements to visit them or go out somewhere with them. But I personally cannot torture my dogs if they refuse the other options and insist on coming to my house.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Flaming said:


> For some dogs it is punishment though.
> 
> My dogs are fine crated while I'm away. I've watched on camera and they just chill out.
> 
> ...


I agree, it is routine for them to be in their crate when we leave, they know "Okay mom is leaving, to my bed/in my crate I go!" because there is no one there, nothing happening. I happen to think it is punishment for my social, friendly dog to be locked away when I have company just because someone is afraid of her? She isnt the type to maul someone, she has this sense where she can tell when someone doesnt want her around and that in of itself it like doggy be gone to her, Lincoln is a huge titty baby and is going through a shy stage with strangers, so he would probably lay by me, or at my feet or under my chair anyway.

I also think we have acknowledged that someone with a GENUINE allergy is not the same as someone who just has a phobia or dislikes dogs? FWIW, no one with allergies will come to my house anyway because they know I have dogs.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Wow. The anthropomorphization is strong in this one.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

stroop said:


> Wow. The anthropomorphization is strong in this one.


Last time I checked, how I view or treat my dogs (unless I were abusing them, which I am not) is none of your concern. Why is it so wrong to love my dogs like they were my kids (I still treat them like dogs, though for their sake).


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Flaming said:


> For some dogs it is punishment though.
> 
> My dogs are fine crated while I'm away. I've watched on camera and they just chill out.
> 
> ...


Service dogs are different as they are trained to work. I would expect a visitor to understand that and accept it or just not come over as it is compromising your health, similar as the compromise for an allergic or truly phobic person. There is a world of difference between a true phobia and a person who just doesn't like dogs. Like I can't control my reaction to germs, would love to be able to but being OCD is not a choice. I don't appreciate people making light of it with "oh it is just raw chicken get over it". Yeah it isn't that easy. Believe me I don't love washing my hands until they are raw or scrubbing my house over and over again/purging half of our possessions because it looks like clutter to me. Phobic people don't like being afraid, it causes significant hardships in their lives (imagine not being able to walk down a street because seeing a dog causes you to have a panic attack possibly soiling yourself). I would think those of us with disabilities could be more understanding of that. At the same time I would imagine most people who are truly friends would be happy to make accommodations on *both* sides, that is if your friend needs to stop by your house for some reason for a few minutes you would be able to put up your dog for that time but otherwise make plans to meet somewhere else so you can both be comfortable.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Last time I checked, how I view or treat my dogs (unless I were abusing them, which I am not) is none of your concern. Why is it so wrong to love my dogs like they were my kids (I still treat them like dogs, though for their sake).


 True. Doesn't mean I can't express my disdain.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

stroop said:


> True. Doesn't mean I can't express my disdain.


Distain for someone who loves their dogs and sees them as part of the family? I cant see what part of that scenario is worthy of disdain? A lot of people see their pets as family.


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## Effisia (Jun 20, 2013)

stroop said:


> True. Doesn't mean I can't express my disdain.


How lovely.

Feel free to toss some of that distain my way, too, since I feel the same way about my pets. They're definitely part of my family. And I talk to Annabel like a person. The cats, too, for that matter.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Effisia said:


> How lovely.
> 
> Feel free to toss some of that distain my way, too, since I feel the same way about my pets. They're definitely part of my family. And I talk to Annabel like a person. The cats, too, for that matter.


My dog is my buddy- I get. My dog is my child- no it's not. If you had to move and couldn't afford your pets, you would most likely re-home, would a person do that with their children? No. 
I don't generally care what people do in the privacy of their own home, but when you express it on a public forum: expect many unique points of view.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

I see my pets as part of my family but they aren't human, and I don't have any illusions about the nature of the relationship compared to the nature of a relationship with human offspring. "Pet parent" is a cute phrase and expresses a pretty common feeling toward one's animals, and animals can meet a similar social need, but it isn't actually a parent-child relationship.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

stroop said:


> My dog is my buddy- I get. My dog is my child- no it's not. If you had to move and couldn't afford your pets, you would most likely re-home, would a person do that with their children? No.
> I don't generally care what people do in the privacy of their own home, but when you express it on a public forum: expect many unique points of view.


You aren't being any less hypocritical than OwnedbyACDs here and your language is every bit as loaded (disdain?). 

If you want other people to be tolerant for other points of view and expect them you need to do the same. 

No one criticized children. The people you're being 'disdainful' of don't HAVE kids, which makes it an even bigger nonissue (than if someone was treating their dogs better than their human children, but that's not happening here). People can, harmlessly, define their relationships any way they like. When people start attacking the way you relate to your animals, you'd have a leg to stand on (but THAT isn't happening here, either). You're welcome to your opinion but I'm quite sure you can find a way to express it without using insults or making broad, sweeping, generalizations. At least I hope so, since I was agreeing with you until this point.

And for the record I wouldn't rehome my pets if I couldn't afford them, if I had the option of foodstamps, medical assistance, housing assistance, and the variety of other programs designed to help people hold onto their kids, either. Since I don't have those options, I probably would. Likewise, I know many people who have had to give up their kids in situations they could not provide for them. Mostly to family members, but the fact remains: it happens.

I don't call my dogs my kids - I have humans one of those - but the comparison and examples you're using are nonsense.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Effisia said:


> How lovely.
> 
> Feel free to toss some of that distain my way, too, since I feel the same way about my pets. They're definitely part of my family. And I talk to Annabel like a person. The cats, too, for that matter.


I do too, I think we both enjoy it.

Stroop: if you cared to read, new studies are finding out that animals like dogs, cats, and even pigs and horses are more emotionally complex than previously thought. I dont know why I bother since you have clearly made up your mind on the subject, but herre are some links on the subject.

http://www.livescience.com/48920-dogs-hear-words-and-emotions.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/dog-emotions-like-humans-gregory-berns_n_4059371.html

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/11/28/367092004/how-dogs-understand-what-we-say

These articles are prime examples of the reason therapy dogs, psychiatric service dogs, and emotional support animals (what Josefina is) make such an impact on humans.


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I also think we have acknowledged that someone with a GENUINE allergy is not the same as someone who just has a phobia or dislikes dogs?


I don't agree with this -- not sure that it's been acknowledged or not, but I personally don't think that's true ... I would put a phobia and an allergy on the same level (especially now that I've had more time to think about it and am not being taken by surprise when someone walks into my house and says "WHAT? You have a DOG!?"

As for putting him in the bedroom -- I don't think he'd really mind. He's a super chill dog. He does like to greet visitors but then just sleeps anyway. I could put him in the bedroom (unsupervised, he'd LOVE to take advantage of the opportunity to get in the bed which he knows he's not supposed to do!) and just leave him there for a few hours. He'd be fine.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

heidizag said:


> I don't agree with this -- not sure that it's been acknowledged or not, but I personally don't think that's true ... I would put a phobia and an allergy on the same level (especially now that I've had more time to think about it and am not being taken by surprise when someone walks into my house and says "WHAT? You have a DOG!?"
> 
> As for putting him in the bedroom -- I don't think he'd really mind. He's a super chill dog. He does like to greet visitors but then just sleeps anyway. I could put him in the bedroom (unsupervised, he'd LOVE to take advantage of the opportunity to get in the bed which he knows he's not supposed to do!) and just leave him there for a few hours. He'd be fine.


But I think the point some are trying to make is that not every dog would be okay with being put away, some (mine included) would think they were being punished  and their feelings matter more to me ... sorry but they do LOL, because I am emotionally involved with them and deeply love them. I would also be quick to kidk anyone out of my home who was mean or showed disdain to them.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

parus said:


> I see my pets as part of my family but they aren't human, and I don't have any illusions about the nature of the relationship compared to the nature of a relationship with human offspring. "Pet parent" is a cute phrase and expresses a pretty common feeling toward one's animals, and animals can meet a similar social need, but it isn't actually a parent-child relationship.


 Stated far more eloquently...


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

I should add that I'm not saying the human-pet relationship isn't meaningful or deep. It certainly can be. But due to issues of lifespan and development it's simply apples and oranges to compare pets to offspring.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

parus said:


> I should add that I'm not saying the human-pet relationship isn't meaningful or deep. It certainly can be. But due to issues of lifespan and development it's simply apples and oranges to compare pets to offspring.


Yes the "You dont know love until you have had your own kids" mantra. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this, because my dogs are just as important TO ME as anyone's kids are TO THEM, and I love them the same, they are family, and will be treated as such.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

CptJack said:


> You aren't being any less hypocritical than OwnedbyACDs here and your language is every bit as loaded (disdain?).
> 
> If you want other people to be tolerant for other points of view and expect them you need to do the same.
> 
> ...


I can take all of that and swallow it. My words were strong but I truly cannot help but feel that way. I might be too straight
forward... most people appreciate it but some can't help but be insulted. 
I would never say in txt what I wouldn't say in person.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yes the "You dont know love until you have had your own kids" mantra. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this, because my dogs are just as important TO ME as anyone's kids are TO THEM, and I love them the same, they are family, and will be treated as such.


 Maybe the mantra is repeated because it is truth. I know you think you know, but you don't know.
As parus said, it doesn't mean that a human/canine bond can't be pretty awesome. Just means it is not the same thing by any means.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> But I think the point some are trying to make is that not every dog would be okay with being put away, some (mine included) would think they were being punished


Honestly, everyone has to handle their own business as they see fit, and approach each situation individually, but if my dogs acted like being temporarily crated or put in a separate room was a punishment, became upset about it, or couldn't settle in that situation, I'd see that as a training concern.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

stroop said:


> Maybe the mantra is repeated because it is truth. I know you think you know, but you don't know.


Yeah no. Sorry but the only love isn't the love for kids, i LOVE my boyfriend, i LOVE my family, and i LOVE my pets. I can love my boyfriend just as strongly as anyone loves their kids.. get real, the love for a child is NOT the only "real love"


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yes the "You dont know love until you have had your own kids" mantra. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this, because my dogs are just as important TO ME as anyone's kids are TO THEM, and I love them the same, they are family, and will be treated as such.


If you read the actual post, it isn't that mantra at all. This isn't a question of feelings, or relative strength of feeling. Regardless of your feelings, dogs and children have very different needs and very different life stages, so something that is unkind to children may not be unkind to a dog, and vice versa.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

parus said:


> Honestly, everyone has to handle their own business as they see fit, and approach each situation individually, but if my dogs acted like being temporarily crated or put in a separate room was a punishment, became upset about it, or couldn't settle in that situation, I'd see that as a training concern.


did you read the links I posted above? Likely not.

It IS a training issue in, if you get rowdy or dont listen, you get removed, if they arent doing anything wrong but get removed because someone isnt comfortable with them, eve if they arent doing anything wrong, they certainly wont be "freaked out" about it, but they would feel left out and bad


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

stroop said:


> I can take all of that and swallow it. My words were strong but I truly cannot help but feel that way. I might be too straight
> forward... most people appreciate it but some can't help but be insulted.
> I would never say in txt what I wouldn't say in person.


If you were over at my house and you said that, you would be shown the door, and I cant guarantee it would be politely. Its my house, if people dont like how I run things on my "ship" then they know where the gate is. Fiancee agrees and if someone reacted badly to our dogs or treated them badly, he would probably be the first one jumping up to toss that person out.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

parus said:


> If you read the actual post, it isn't that mantra at all. This isn't a question of feelings. Regardless of your feelings, dogs and children have very different needs and very different life stages, so something that is unkind to children may not be unkind to a dog, and vice versa.


Bingo. 

And the only reason I brought up 'don't have kids' isn't because I believe they don't know love (bullcrap) but because if I treated my children and dogs the same, I'd be abusing kids AND dogs but not meeting their needs appropriately. Kids are not dogs. Dogs are not kids. that isn't a a value judgement, that's a fact. Dogs and rats aren't the same, either, and I promise you treating them the same would result in some badness to both.

And frankly it's also basic is the fact that when kids are in the picture, unless you're a craptastic parent, your priorities have to change. That doesn't mean you have to change them to know love, or you have to change them to be a fulfilled person, or a good person or amazing person or any other kid of person, but you DO have to change them to be a good parent. Which is, IMO, perfectly valid as a reason not to have or want kids (along with a bunch of other reasons, any reason, or no reason), but still remains: If you have them, your priorities need to change and WILL change.

None of this has a thing to do with the baloney supposedly said here about only really knowing love if you have kids.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Adjecyca1 said:


> Yeah no. Sorry but the only love isn't the love for kids, i LOVE my boyfriend, i LOVE my family, and i LOVE my pets. I can love my boyfriend just as strongly as anyone loves their kids.. get real, the love for a child is NOT the only "real love"


Where did I state that? 
You're the other kid hater on here, right?


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Bingo.
> 
> And the only reason I brought up 'don't have kids' isn't because I believe they don't know love (bullcrap) but because if I treated my children and dogs the same, I'd be abusing kids AND dogs but not meeting their needs appropriately. Kids are not dogs. Dogs are not kids. that isn't a a value judgement, that's a fact.


Oh I still treat them AS dogs, but the LOVE I feel for them in my heart and soul is LIKE the love someone feels for their child. I talk to them, clean up after them, feed them, play with them, spend time with them, train them, love them etc and fiancee even refers to me as "their mom".

I think Stroop's issue with Adjecyca1 and I are that we "hate" kids. Thats not actually true, I guess I should be saying that I am ANNOYED and HATE most parents, not really their kids ... its not their fault, they are like dogs, its all in how you raise em. I have several friends with kids and I actually LIKE them, my fiancee's sister has three wonderful, respectful, loving kids. As long as they are behaved, then I dont mind at all.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

stroop said:


> Where did I state that?
> You're the other kid hater on here, right?


Uhm OwnedbyACDs said " "You dont know love until you have had your own kids" and you stated that it was the truth...


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

CptJack said:


> Bingo.
> 
> And the only reason I brought up 'don't have kids' isn't because I believe they don't know love (bullcrap) but because if I treated my children and dogs the same, I'd be abusing kids AND dogs but not meeting their needs appropriately. Kids are not dogs. Dogs are not kids. that isn't a a value judgement, that's a fact.
> 
> ...


It is a value judgement if you are sane...? Wow, this forum is a little nuts it seems. 
You are an antisocial hermit that doesn't see that your child's worth is above your dogs? I feel for you kid/s. If you don't have kids and that's how you want it, great! But having kids and valuing your dogs as equal to your children must be some form of mental illness? Surely?
Well there are crappy parents all over the world so this should come as no great surprise. 
Can guarantee you that if you were starving, Thud would be looking mighty tasty.



Adjecyca1 said:


> Uhm OwnedbyACDs said " "You dont know love until you have had your own kids" and you stated that it was the truth...


 Certainly not for some... apparently. 
It's ok, PLEASE don't reproduce, I'm begging you.
Fu()ing first world. Where problems border on the ridiculous.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes I never said anyone said that I was merely stating that that mantra was IMPLIED. Its fine to think of YOUR dog as "just a dog" and "not as important" of a family member (though I dont agree with it) where my issue lies is when people start trying to question or belittle MY or otthers feelings toward my dogs and animals. Just because my animals arent the same species, or just because I didnt birth them from my own body doesnt make us any less of a "family" to me then anyone else with "same species". family.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Oh for heaven's sakes. Really? Are we really fighting over others people's opinions being different from another's? 

Every single person has lead a different life and everyone had had different encounters in their life so guess what? None of you are right or wrong! 

Respect others opinions even if they seem stupid to you as you have no clue what had happened I'm their lives to sit them in the spot they are in now.

"You don't know love until you have kids" is a load of bull. If that was true you wouldn't see kids being killed by their parents, dumped in land fills, tossed on other family members, abused, given away ect. Again that is your own opinion and not everyone shares that veiw. Doesn't mean it wasn't true for you though. 

As for the original topic at hand, I always put my dogs away when company comes over because they can be over the top. If someone is terrified of my dogs then they aren't invited back. However while they are over the dogs are crated or in the bedroom. I don't like most humans and only keep a handful of friends as it is. I'm perfectly happy like this.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Yes I never said anyone said that I was merely stating that that mantra was IMPLIED. Its fine to think of YOUR dog as "just a dog" and "not as important" of a family member (though I dont agree with it) where my issue lies is when people start trying to question or belittle MY or otthers feelings toward my dogs and animals. Just because my animals arent the same species, or just because I didnt birth them from my own body doesnt make us any less of a "family" to me then anyone else with "same species". family.


 As I said, do what you do. Just don't expect everyone to go along with it and not oppose your opinions. You have never had a child of you own, meanwhile I have had both children and many dogs. You are ignorant, that is a FACT.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

stroop said:


> As I said, do what you do. Just don't expect everyone to go along with it and not oppose your opinions. You have never had a child of you own, meanwhile I have had both children and many dogs. You are ignorant, that is a FACT.


My question is if you dont value your dog on some level, then what are you doing on a dog forum, prey tell?


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Darkmoon said:


> Oh for heaven's sakes. Really? Are we really fighting over others people's opinions being different from another's?
> 
> Every single person has lead a different life and everyone had had different encounters in their life so guess what? None of you are right or wrong!
> 
> ...


 Most of those child murderers probably loved their dogs just fine. 
I would go as far to say that people who are obsessed with their pets to the degree that some on here seem to be, have a very deeply rooted mental illness.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> My question is if you dont value your dog on some level, then what are you doing on a dog forum, prey tell?


 I completely agree. 
A forum rife with nut balls. Whose only thought when they wake up are their dogs. I thought I could get some useful information on here but all I'm getting so far is a bunch of creepy people that live and breath their canines. 
That's not who I am and I would actually prefer to get deleted or whatever one has to do to permanently get off of this forum.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

stroop said:


> Certainly not for some... apparently.
> It's ok, PLEASE don't reproduce, I'm begging you.


A lot of people know what love is without having children  when you have a child your body floods you with hormones, of course you're gonna feel intense about it, but that doesn't mean it is the ONLY love there is  There are a lot of different kinds of love, and someone can love someone who isn't their child, just as much as someone loves their baby.

And you don't need to beg me... i do not need children to be happy. 


On the original topic i have put my dogs away if i needed to for whatever reason, i can see where OwnedbyACDs is coming from about it being kind of a punishment, as my dog Scruffy always whines A LOT if she is stuck in a room when guests are here.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

stroop said:


> If you had to move and couldn't afford your pets, you would most likely re-home


Sentences like this make it obvious that you haven't been reading this forum for long.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Adjecyca1 said:


> A lot of people know what love is without having children  when you have a child your body floods you with hormones, of course you're gonna feel intense about it, but that doesn't mean it is the ONLY love there is  There are a lot of different kinds of love, and someone can love someone who isn't their child, just as much as someone loves their baby.
> 
> And you don't need to beg me... i do not need children to be happy.
> 
> ...


 Did I state that I needed children to be happy? wtf, talk about putting words in my mouth. 
I never said that you didn't love your dogs. I said you (not experiencing having your own children) are ignorant. I truly hope you remain so as you seem one of the most unstable out of the group. You and OwnedbyACD's should become really good buddies.



Crantastic said:


> Sentences like this make it obvious that you haven't been reading this forum for long.


 Great. You'll keep something you can't afford when it would be best to find the animal a home where it can be afforded. That's love ya'll.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

stroop said:


> Did I state that I needed children to be happy? wtf, talk about putting words in my mouth.
> I never said that you didn't love your dogs. I said you (not experiencing having your own children) are ignorant. I truly hope you remain so as you seem one of the most unstable out of the group. You and OwnedbyACD's should become really good buddies.


I didn't say YOU needed children to be happy, i said that _I_ do not need them to be happy, and obviously i couldn't possibly love my dogs cause according to you the only real love is the love one has for a baby


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

stroop said:


> Most of those child murderers probably loved their dogs just fine.
> I would go as far to say that people who are obsessed with their pets to the degree that some on here seem to be, have a very deeply rooted mental illness.


Well ... this is a dog forum, it would be a safe assumption to expect there to be people on here who love their animals. But calling them "obsessed" and having a "deeply rooted mental illness"? I think thats going a little far.

I am always respectful and accommodating to people in public, even if it means inconveniencing myself, but in my own home? I just think I should be exempt from that. Thats all I was saying. 

And I dont think we are fighting over differing opinions, as much as we are about the view that animals matter less because they are ... well ... animals. I think that's what's got everyone's goat.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Adjecyca1 said:


> I didn't say YOU needed children to be happy, i said that _I_ do not need them to be happy, and obviously i couldn't possibly love my dogs cause according to you the only real love is the love one has for a baby


Your dog will die between 10-15 years if you are lucky. You will then buy another dog. That is not the equivalent of a <good> parent's love.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Well ... this is a dog forum, it would be a safe assumption to expect there to be people on here who love their animals. But calling them "obsessed" and having a "deeply rooted mental illness"? I think thats going a little far.
> 
> I am always respectful and accommodating to people in public, even if it means inconveniencing myself, but in my own home? I t think I should be exempt from that. Thats all I was saying.
> 
> And I dont think we are fighting over differing opinions, as much as we are about the view that animals matter less because they are ... well ... animals. I think that's what's got everyone's goat.


In the scheme of things, pets are not that important. If I could not afford my pets, I would not have them and I would be perfectly happy. They are a luxury, not unlike my iPad and my big screen tv. They are animals with thoughts and feelings but they are in no way comparable to the potential of a human being.
They provide a need- for loneliness, for the mentally ill and anti-social, for some specific physically disabled individuals. But they will never replace human life or social interaction. Some of you have been stuck in your houses alone too long to understand this.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Taking about dogs on a dog forum does not make one obsessed with dogs any more than talking about kids on a parenting forum makes one obsessed with kids or talking about TV shows on a TV forum makes one obsessed with TV. Most people have varied interests and may talk about each one in the appropriate place.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

CptJack said:


> Bingo.
> 
> And the only reason I brought up 'don't have kids' isn't because I believe they don't know love (bullcrap) but because if I treated my children and dogs the same, I'd be abusing kids AND dogs but not meeting their needs appropriately. Kids are not dogs. Dogs are not kids. that isn't a a value judgement, that's a fact. Dogs and rats aren't the same, either, and I promise you treating them the same would result in some badness to both.
> 
> ...


This really sums it up, thanks.



OwnedbyACDs said:


> did you read the links I posted above? Likely not.
> 
> It IS a training issue in, if you get rowdy or dont listen, you get removed, if they arent doing anything wrong but get removed because someone isnt comfortable with them, eve if they arent doing anything wrong, they certainly wont be "freaked out" about it, but they would feel left out and bad


If you've trained your dogs that the only reason they get crated or put in a separate room is that they were bad, then you have basically created a problem for yourself. Personally, I trained my dogs that when they are put in a separate room or in their crate they get a nice chew toy or kong and they are supposed to settle and have a rest. I don't use the crate as punishment so they don't associate it with punishment.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Crantastic said:


> Taking about dogs on a dog forum does not make one obsessed with dogs any more than talking about kids on a parenting forum makes one obsessed with kids or talking about TV shows on a TV forum makes one obsessed with TV. Most people have varied interests and may talk about each one in the appropriate place.


 I didn't state that either. Reading comprehension is at an all time low it seems. If one loves their dogs equal to their children, that would (in my mind) equal an obsession.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Dogs are a hobby for a lot of people. Like horses or hunting or sports or what have you. People are passionate about all sorts of things. For someone like me whose main hobby is training and competing with dogs then yeah they're a big part of my social life.

FTR, I love my nieces much more than my dogs and would do anything for them. My dogs are not my kids and I don't think of them that way. But they are important to me.

I think it's ridiculous to think people can't have other interests.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

stroop said:


> Your dog will die between 10-15 years if you are lucky. You will then buy another dog. That is not the equivalent of a <good> parent's love.


What does lifespan have to do with anything? you agreed with the statement "you don't know real love till you have had a child" I only had time with my mother for 13 years and i loved her with all of my heart, i still love her just as much as anyone loves their child. I love my boyfriend with all of my heart, he means the world to me, what makes love for a child so much greater than all other love, why is it the only 'real love'


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Sigh, this could have been a good topic about training and management and options for helping other people

But instead.....

op2:


All I can say is balance the needs of friends and family and other visitors with the needs of the dogs. It is always a good idea to mention that you have dogs if the person isnt likely to already know that and that gives the chance to find a better place to socialize if needed or if the person visiting is a worker or such, to put the dog away or have someone take the dog on a walk etc. Be considerate of others needs so that people will be considerate of yours, whatever those might be.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I think it's a bit much to call people mentally ill because they have different priorities and interest than you do. And... I agree with you on most points as far as dogs not being as important as children and that it is no big deal to put the dog away a few hours for a guest. 

But really dogs are one of the most important thing in my life and even my social life. Nowhere near a tv or an ipad... though I have an ancient tv and no ipad at all. Even if I did though, those things would not bring me nearly as much joy as a dog would. I can't take them to training classes or travel to competitions. A lot of my friends have been made through dogs (And they're all pretty normal people with jobs and families and all that). Eventually I would like dog training to be a career. (Side money once retired would be nice)

There are people that 'live and breathe' all sorts of interests... are they all mentally ill? I know people obsessed with bow hunting, or horseback riding, or their job, or their art/music, or certain tv shows or board games or video games or sports or or or.... It's called a hobby.  It takes all sorts. The world would be boring as hell if we were all the same.


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Adjecyca1 said:


> What does lifespan have to do with anything? you agreed with the statement "you don't know real love till you have had a child" I only had time with my mother for 13 years and i loved her with all of my heart, i still love her just as much as anyone loves their child. I love my boyfriend with all of my heart, he means the world to me, what makes love for a child so much greater than all other love, why is it the only 'real love'


 I never said it was.
Lifespan wasn't the point of my comment, replacing one week (or whatever short period) later was. 


Laurelin said:


> Dogs are a hobby for a lot of people. Like horses or hunting or sports or what have you. People are passionate about all sorts of things. For someone like me whose main hobby is training and competing with dogs then yeah they're a big part of my social life.
> 
> FTR, I love my nieces much more than my dogs and would do anything for them. My dogs are not my kids and I don't think of them that way. But they are important to me.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous to think people can't have other interests.


Hobby is different then "my dogs are my kids".


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Very few people here stated that dogs are their kids, yet you're insulting all of us.

Like Laurelin, I love my dogs and enjoy spending time with them and doing activities with them, but I do not think of them as children. 

I had agreed with a lot of your posts earlier in this thread. It's disappointing that you've decided to insult and demean everyone here, assuming things about us that we have never said.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

Welp there go all of our outliers in the "I can participate in a discussion without losing it and/or refusing to acknowledge differences" competition.

(and weird, I nanny, am an aunt, adore kids, want to have kids one day, am an introvert, love my dogs, jokingly refer to them as my kids, AND work at an animal shelter. Where in the world do I fit into this continuum because apparently I've been ousted from both sides  )


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## stroop (Jan 8, 2015)

Crantastic said:


> Very few people here stated that dogs are their kids, yet you're insulting all of us.
> 
> Like Laurelin, I love my dogs and enjoy spending time with them and doing activities with them, but I do not think of them as children.
> 
> I had agreed with a lot of your posts earlier in this thread. It's disappointing that you've decided to insult and demean everyone here, assuming things about us that we have never said.


I was pretty specific.


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## Adjecyca1 (Jul 25, 2010)

stroop said:


> I never said it was.
> Lifespan wasn't the point of my comment, replacing one week (or whatever short period) later was.
> 
> Hobby is different then "my dogs are my kids".


If you are not saying the love for a baby is the only kind of love why did you agree with the statement "You do not know what real love is until you have had a child"? Some people have kids after a child died, that doesn't mean the kid is 'replaceable', just cause you get another dog does not mean you are 'replacing' the first one, same can be said for when someone loses a spouse and ends up with someone else later on


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

stroop said:


> I completely agree.
> A forum rife with nut balls. Whose only thought when they wake up are their dogs. I thought I could get some useful information on here but all I'm getting so far is a bunch of creepy people that live and breath their canines.
> That's not who I am and I would actually prefer to get deleted or whatever one has to do to permanently get off of this forum.





stroop said:


> I was pretty specific.


Doesn't appear that way.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I love my TV and fancy smart phone ... but I also have a casual interest in all things technological, too LOL.

But my dogs are my main hobby, guess that makes me a "menally ill, insane shut in" I would think that someone who claims to have an autistic child wouldnt be so quick to throw out the "mental illness" insult to others, but I guess I was wrong.

@Parus- Its not the act itself that the dog perceives as punishment, as much as its the nature of the act, putting my dogs away for "quiet time" is not the same as putting them away because someone doesnt like them. When the horse shoer is coming, she calls about 15 minutes before turns to come up our drive, allowing me to make them coming in a pleasant experience for the dogs (per my request ... she is a dog person also so she gets it).

No where did I say that I only put my dogs away when they are being punished.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

You can put your dogs in your room or wherever and give them tons of toys and treats until those with a fear of dogs is leaving. How would the dog think it's being punished if toys and treats are in the same room as them? 

And I find it highly rude that anyone would leave their dogs out in the house when someone has a phobia of them. How would you like it if you were afraid of some animal someone had and they didn't put it away knowing full well you're terrified? And I agree with Shell fully especially on her last sentence.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> You can put your dogs in your room or wherever and give them tons of toys and treats until those with a fear of dogs is leaving. How would the dog think it's being punished if toys and treats are in the same room as them?
> 
> And I find it highly rude that anyone would leave their dogs out in the house when someone has a phobia of them. How would you like it if you were afraid of some animal someone had and they didn't put it away knowing full well you're terrified? And I agree with Shell fully especially on her last sentence.


Then we would likely meet somewhere not my house, maybe their house or a restaurant.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Then we would likely meet somewhere not my house, maybe their house or a restaurant.


I'm fine with dogs, except for Pits, although I won't tell the owners that. I'm just talking about random people. I didn't mean to be rude saying what I said, it's just what I feel.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

What is even going on here right now.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

stroop said:


> I completely agree.
> A forum rife with nut balls. Whose only thought when they wake up are their dogs. I thought I could get some useful information on here but all I'm getting so far is a bunch of creepy people that live and breath their canines.
> That's not who I am and I would actually prefer to get deleted or whatever one has to do to permanently get off of this forum.


Easy peasy, though a more elegant way would have been to just log out.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> I'm fine with dogs, except for Pits, although I won't tell the owners that. I'm just talking about random people. I didn't mean to be rude saying what I said, it's just what I feel.


Sigh. This thread keeps getting better!


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Eenypup said:


> Sigh. This thread keeps getting better!


I had the same thought. 

Quick someone mention something else.

I love Cesar Milan.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I want to breed my dogs!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

CptJack said:


> I want to breed my dogs!


Ans you want to eat thud!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Spirit_of_Cotons said:


> I'm fine with dogs, except for Pits, although I won't tell the owners that. I'm just talking about random people. I didn't mean to be rude saying what I said, it's just what I feel.


No I totally feel you, I do not care (wouldn't say I am afraid of them, tho) for spaniels, because a friend of mine had an aggressive one when I was a kid ... that being said, I don't expect someone to lock their dog away just because I don't like what breed they are.

The only exception to this rule I would make is if I had an aggressive dog.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> I had the same thought.
> 
> Quick someone mention something else.
> 
> I love Cesar Milan.





CptJack said:


> I want to breed my dogs!


Go raw or go home! No death nuggets!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Aww man they got the ban hammer, but they were so engaging with their conversation lol.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

Eenypup said:


> Sigh. This thread keeps getting better!


I'm sorry. I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just afraid of them. Remember that thread "which dog are you afraid of? and be honest?" Well...I put my answer in there too. I know some can be good. Sheesh....I'm sure there are many people here that are afraid of a certain breed but don't tell the owners that when they're going over someone else's house.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Aww man they got the ban hammer, but they were so engaging with their conversation lol.


Nutball's gotta do what a nutball's gotta do.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

> I know some can be good.


*coughs*mostaregood*coughs* sorry frog in my throat.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> I had the same thought.
> 
> Quick someone mention something else.
> 
> I love Cesar Milan.





CptJack said:


> I want to breed my dogs!





sassafras said:


> Go raw or go home! No death nuggets!


If you buy a dog from a breeder, you're killing a shelter dog!

(But that's okay, because all shelter dogs have major issues and you can never really bond with a dog unless you raised it from a puppy anyway.)


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## MazzyGirl (Jan 19, 2015)

My brother's oldest kid was afraid of dogs. It was a phobia and it didn't seem to have a reason. He saw teeth and started to grow anxious about what those teeth can do. The fear grew from there. However, my brother really wanted to get a dog. His two younger kids wanted one and so did his wife. But, while his oldest was that afraid of them, he couldn't get one. So, with my very friendly husky, he had all three of his kids over to my house and tried to socialize his kids with my dog. It actually seemed to work. Skye (my husky) was unaffected by my nephew's fear of her and just ignored him. He eventually tried to pet her and she welcomed him calmly. That was perfect for him! He grew to accept my dog and that prompted my brother to find a dog for himself. He found a labradoodle. Now all of his sons love her. It seems his oldest has also gotten over his fear of dogs. 

That was a success story, but I know how irrational fears can be and some of them don't get better even after some exposure. I seem to have a few irrational fears too so I understand how fears work. There's nothing you can do but show a little empathy and put the pets away in a safe area. Let the person know where the pets are so they don't go opening doors when looking for a bathroom.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

It amazing on a few questions can escalated into something like this....

(And, how did I miss this?)


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Darkmoon said:


> *coughs*mostaregood*coughs* sorry frog in my throat.


Lol, only some are though! Much much worse than other NORMAL dogs which are mostly good! I mean there a _few_ pits out there that won't rip your face off for no reason!


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Eenypup said:


> Lol, only some are though! Much much worse than other NORMAL dogs which are mostly good! I mean there a _few_ pits out there that won't rip your face off for no reason!


Totally agree! Why are they even allowed in public? Seriously. It shouldn't be allowed. 

One more thing, and more true then anything.....It's all in how you raise them! Genetics play no role whatsoever.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I don't know, I'm afraid of Jazzy. That furry little face looks like she is plotting something. 

Also have you heard, Doberman's brains get too big for their skulls and then they go insane and attack their owners. (sorry heard this the other day from a "concerned citizen" and had to share)


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

I put my phone down for a couple hours and missed all the action. Damn. I just can't believe that cptjack got carved up for being on the same side.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

d_ray said:


> I put my phone down for a couple hours and missed all the action. Damn. I just can't believe that cptjack got carved up for being on the same side.


I know right! I missed all this, too. haha.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

d_ray said:


> I put my phone down for a couple hours and missed all the action. Damn. I just can't believe that cptjack got carved up for being on the same side.


It's okay, I didn't WANT to be on that side pretty darned fast.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

CptJack said:


> It's okay, I didn't WANT to be on that side pretty darned fast.


I initially was on board with that poster, but then things spiraled way too quickly...

By the way, poodles are fake frou frou dogs. Chihuahuas belong in purses. And all pit bulls have locking jaws to murder babies!! Rotts like to kill babies too, but less often and without the locking jaw.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

Eenypup said:


> I initially was on board with that poster, but then things spiraled way too quickly...
> 
> By the way, poodles are fake frou frou dogs. Chihuahuas belong in purses. And all pit bulls have locking jaws to murder babies!! Rotts like to kill babies too, but less often and without the locking jaw.


Well that is only because Pit Bulls have more powerful jaws than jaguars. I'm pretty sure I heard that on TV or the internet. You know they can't put things on the internet if they aren't true.


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## JazzyTheSiberian (Feb 4, 2013)

Remaru said:


> Well that is only because Pit Bulls have more powerful jaws than jaguars. I'm pretty sure I heard that on TV or the internet. You know they can't put things on the internet if they aren't true.


Actually, they have more stronger jaws then Alligators.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

JazzyTheSiberian said:


> Actually, they have more stronger jaws then Alligators.


Well that's it, I'm not leaving the house again. Crazy alligator jawed pit bulls roaming the neighborhood.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

I got Vitae's dna test back. She is part mountain goat!


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Boo my breeds don't have any cliches to make fun of ... unless you count bring really cute lol.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

stroop said:


> I completely agree.
> A forum rife with nut balls. Whose only thought when they wake up are their dogs. I thought I could get some useful information on here but all I'm getting so far is a bunch of creepy people that live and breath their canines.
> That's not who I am and I would actually prefer to get deleted or whatever one has to do to permanently get off of this forum.


what even happened here

I know they're gone but just for the record, my dog isn't just my kid she's my life. You're right, I live and breathe dogs. I'm also autistic, and dogs are my special interest--everyone on the spectrum has one. It's an inborn love and yes, obsession. My entire life purpose is for my current and future dogs. I tell Roxie I have to go to work so I can make money to take care of her. When I have extra money I think about what I could get for my dog. If i have free time during the day I go to the dog park. And I'm happy like that and it's no one's right to judge. I'm not mentally ill, either, any more than anyone else with a passion is. So as my coworker has taught me--bye Felicia


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

If I've invited someone over to my house, and I know they have a serious issue with my dogs, such as a fear or allergy, yes, I will put them away. It may be our home, but I invited them in in and want them to be comfortable, and keeping the dogs in the bedroom for a few hours is no big deal. Thats different than someone simply not liking my dogs.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Wow this exploded.

For the record, no, I do not think of my pets as my kids, and I cringe a bit inwardly when someone else implies that they are. (not that their own pets are like that for them, if someone implies they my pets are like that for me) I have never referred to them as my kids, or me as their mom, or anything like that.

That does not mean they aren't important members of my family that are factored into decisions, or that getting rid of them would be anywhere near the top of the list if hard times fell upon us.


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## The Feather Duster (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes, I'm still trying to figure out what the heck happened. The thread was going rather bumpily and then it just sort of crashed and burned. I posted in it just before heading off to bed; hence the typos. I did a quick re-read, noticed the typos, thought about editing to correct them and then decided against it, as I was just too darned tired and figured that people would still understand my message (for whatever it was worth).

And woke up to another couple of pages and things going downhill fast. I'm still scratching my head over it. Like ... what happened?? A poster who seemed a bit prickly to begin with was suddenly calling forum members "mentally ill." And getting pretty riled up about it.

I read the next segment when I was home for a lunch break and could see the writing on the wall and that the prickly one was not going to be around for much longer once a mod or mods got wind of it.

And sure enough ...

Yikes! How an innocent question can turn into a you-know-what fest.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

This thread is a classic example of how a potentially useful thread can be completely derailed by one disgruntled member who decides, after a few days or weeks, that we are all nuts. I think it really takes a few months, at least, to understand just how nuts we are. 

It started to bounce between nasty and silly. It seems unlikely that it will ever go back to being useful.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

All I can say is lol.


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## The Feather Duster (Apr 14, 2010)

RonE said:


> This thread is a classic example of how a potentially useful thread can be completely derailed by one disgruntled member who decides, after a few days or weeks, that we are all nuts. I think it really takes a few months, at least, to understand just how nuts we are.
> 
> It started to bounce between nasty and silly. It seems unlikely that it will ever go back to being useful.



Yes, it really is. Good to see you around again, Ron. You were missed by quite a few people, including me. Good that you're back. Now that I think about it, good that I'm back. Well, maybe ...

Yeah, we're all nuts. Nuts about our dogs. And with good reason.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

RonE said:


> This thread is a classic example of how a potentially useful thread can be completely derailed by one disgruntled member who decides, after a few days or weeks, that we are all nuts. I think it really takes a few months, at least, to understand just how nuts we are.
> 
> It started to bounce between nasty and silly. It seems unlikely that it will ever go back to being useful.


Well at least they made it ... interesting? I suppose?


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> Well at least they made it ... interesting? I suppose?


And you didn't? In my opinion that posters crazy is only a step above yours! But hey, if you don't see it stay in that world of denial


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## heidizag (Dec 1, 2014)

yes WOAH this thread. But I (OP) did get my question answered and I have a plan for the future now  I feel more prepared for potentially phobic or nervous visitors. Thanks to everyone who replied.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

ireth0 said:


> Wow this exploded.
> 
> For the record, no, I do not think of my pets as my kids, and I cringe a bit inwardly when someone else implies that they are. (not that their own pets are like that for them, if someone implies they my pets are like that for me) I have never referred to them as my kids, or me as their mom, or anything like that.
> 
> That does not mean they aren't important members of my family that are factored into decisions, or that getting rid of them would be anywhere near the top of the list if hard times fell upon us.


Exactly. If I couldn't afford my dogs, I'd find a way to afford them, or worst-case scenario they'd go back to their breeders -- rehoming them myself wouldn't even be on my list of options. No, they're not kids, but they're family and I love them. Their lifespan doesn't factor into that, either.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Eenypup said:


> And you didn't? In my opinion that posters crazy is only a step above yours! But hey, if you don't see it stay in that world of denial


Not going to address that again, because things seemed to have calmed down. No use beating a dead horse for no reason.


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