# Caucasian Mountain Shepard



## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

I want a Mountain Shepard but am woundering if Maryalnd is to hot for these dogs?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Why do you want one? 
They're not exactly an every day, every person dog. Weather would not be your only concern with this breed.


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## cmoorewv (May 27, 2012)

They are gorgeous gorgeous dogs, but they would be way too much dog for me. Breeders grade them on temperment and protective instinct, but even one rating on the low end of the scale would be difficult for me. I would love to have one under the right circumstances-lots of securely fenced in property. There are too many other dogs and people where I live and the fenced in part of my yard isn't secure enough for a dog of that type. It does get pretty hot here in WV certain times of the year and it can be hard on a breed bred for cold mountainous areas. I keep fans circulating for my St Bernard when it's warm.


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## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

I want one to protect my livestock in the future they interest me and trust me iv done my research i know they are aggressive but i know i can raise one right


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

If you already have a farm and livestock, get an LGD. If you don't, I wouldn't get even the softest of the bunch. It isn't just aggression you have to worry about - but noise, digging, roaming, and stubborn hardheaded disinclination to give a crap what you want or think (ie: they can redefine hard to train; they were not bred to work with people, but entirely on their own) AND the guardian instincts making them a liability in suburbia (which is all much, much worse in a city). They're awesome dogs, but they are not the best pets in the world. It has nothing to do with being raised right, or not. It has to do with what they were bred to do. And what they were bred to do is not give a crap about you or your training and to be loud and animal aggressive.

However, if you do have them - Any LGD you use is going to probably come with quite a coat. Provided water access, shade, and keep them groomed to keep under coat from building up and you'll be reasonably okay with most.


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## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

I agree with what you have to say and respect your opion but i have read alot of places that these can be good pets but still have to have very hard and agressive training plus if it was protecting live stock it would be working on its own


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Brodyd45 said:


> I agree with what you have to say and respect your opion but i have read alot of places that these can be good pets but still have to have very hard and agressive training plus if it was protecting live stock it would be working on its own


Combining a dog that doesn't care what you think with "hard" and " aggressive" training is asking to get your face bitten off. 

Get a pyr. It's exactly what you want without the danger.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Amaryllis said:


> Get a pyr. It's exactly what you want without the danger.


Less danger. Even much less. 

But still not a great PET in suburbia or a city, frankly.


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## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

I live in country yard size isnt a problem


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, hard and aggressive training is not what you want with a dog who will be bigger than you and will hold a grudge :/. Consistent and fair training, yes. Being a confident trainer in general, yes. But getting "aggressive" with a dog like that. . .have fun with no face .


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Brodyd45 said:


> I agree with what you have to say and respect your opion but i have read alot of places that these can be good pets but still have to have very hard and agressive training plus if it was protecting live stock it would be working on its own


You need to do more research. LOTS more. You get aggressive with a CO, and there's a very good chance it will fight you. You will lose.

Also, the fact that you're spelling it "shepard" instead of "shepherd" indicates that you haven't done as much reading as you claim. And dude, even the Wikipedia article, which would be one of the most basic places you could look for info on this breed, says this:



> Although certain strains are more vicious than others, all Caucasians are very territorial and dog-aggressive, needing early and careful broad socialization, as well as firm, *but never forceful*, handling.


Here are some older DF threads to check out (BradA's posts in particular):

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/65278-caucasian-ovtcharka.html
http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/67821-my-dogs.html
http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/70132-do-you-own-guardian.html


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## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

Youre going off my research by a typo? Lol


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## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

Plus when did i ever say i was done researching? I know iv only just started


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Keep researching. A lot. Read those links to past threads. 

There's always risk when you use 'aggressive' handling on a dog that the dog will retaliate. That chance is much, much higher when you are dealing with a dog who is big, strong, and knows it. The risk is to YOU.

Just because they're hard headed and independent doesn't mean you are EVER going to succeed in 'beating them into submission'. It's part of why it takes a special kind of owner to own ANY of the LGD breeds, and ESPECIALLY these.


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## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

Thank you, i may have used a bad word when i said agressive i ment more of relentless but youre right i see agressive isnt the way i should have picked my words more carefully are there books on raising these types of dogs?


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

You need not be "aggressive" or "relentless" with ANY breed. There's no use in it. You're either going to have a dog that will be too scared to breathe around you -which may result in retaliation- or a dog that will quickly get fed up with your bull and defend themselves.

But you seem to be missing the point. These dogs are bred to be independent and aggressive. How you raise it isn't going to matter much. If you train the dog PROPERLY, you've got a Caucasian Mountain Shepherd. If you train the dog IMPROPERLY you've got a Caucasian Mountain Shepherd, but one who is likely going to be FAR less safe to be around.


Why not consider a different breed? A Kuvasz or a Great Pyrenees, surely even a Boz would be better. If you're willing to take this risk, do it. But unless you are going to TRULY EDUCATE YOURSELF, beyond wikipedia and whatever else the internet says -talk to breeders, meet the dog, understand fully what you are getting into- I would not suggest this breed.


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## Aclhenrickson (Mar 25, 2013)

That dog would kill you


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Hi Brodyd45,

we currently own two Caucasian Ovcharka's (Ovcharka is merely a Russian word for shepherd dog). And I have a lot of experience with this breed.
Unfortunately there isn't a lot of accurate information about this breed in English.

I will gladly answer all your questions about this breed.
I would like to know what made you decide to get this LGD breed and not another LGD breeds and what is your prior experience with (livestock) guardian breeds.

Let me write a little something about the history of this breed (so I can better explain what am I about to say about this breed being used as LGD in U.S.).

The Caucasian shepherd dogs as a breed have a very long history.
Originally they were a landrace livestock guardian breed from the Caucasus Mountains, where they have been used to guard livestock from large predators for probably 2-3000 years.
The evolution of the breed was not only a result of natural selection but it was also influenced by nations that inhabited the Caucasian Region. 
Which basically means that the breed would slightly vary from one country in the Caucasian Region to another. 

Around 1920 the Soviets started selecting them for military purposes as guard dogs.
The Soviet military decided that this breed would make the perfect guardians for their military purposes. 
So they imported them from Georgia, Armenia, Dagestan etc (back then they were all apart of the Soviet Union) and started selecting them for their guarding abilities.
And even though the Caucasian shepherd dogs were no longer a landrace breed, but instead man-made, the breed non the less kept its phenotypic diversity. 

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Caucasian shepherd dogs remained to be used for guarding of prisons, factories, properties, homes etc but they also became more popular with the dog fanciers.


Which brings me to another point: most modern Caucasian shepherds (meaning they are no longer those aboriginal dogs straight from Caucasus) are used as property guardians nowadays and no longer as LGD's. 
That's not to say that they would not make good LGD's, but most good LGD's come from working stock, i.e. from proven parents.
And to my knowledge there is only one Caucasian Shepherd dog breeder in U.S. that raises her dogs with livestock. I can pm you her info if you want.

I have noticed (and I've heard the same thing from some breeders) that this breed bonds firstly and fore mostly with their humans.
In general the modern Caucasian shepherds don't do great if they say for instance have to guard a flock on an isolated pasture, with limited human interaction.
They seem to do much, much better if they are on a farm guarding animals where they also get to see their humans on a daily basis. Even though they do have the typical LGD aloof and independent temperament.
I believe this has to do with the breed's more recent history, which I have explained above.

And in general they do have a somewhat higher prey drive when compared to most other LGD breeds.
On one hand that does means that it makes it even more difficult to teach them not to chase poultry and rabbits, but on the other hand it also means they make excellent vermin control.
Garter snakes, mice, rats, possums etc will not be allowed on their property.

A well bred Caucasian shepherd is very agile and active. Which is why a minimum of 6ft fence is so important.
You have to make sure they can not escape (I have to add that a well bred Caucasian Shepherd isn't prone to wandering).
They are one of the most naturally human aggressive breeds out there (with other words: you don't have to train them to protect their property from strangers).
Typically when a well bred Caucasian shepherd sees strangers or other canines near their property, there is just no stopping these dogs.
And that is why this breed needs to be socialized properly from early on, so they can differentiate between real threats and something that is simply new or unusual.

*They need experienced owners*, but then again that should be said for all other LGD breeds as well.
You have to be firm with these dogs from early on, but you can't be too harsh and *you must never, ever get physical* with a Caucasian Ovcharka (or any other dog for that matter).
They will lose respect for you and they will never forgive you. And I have known of cases where the dog retaliated.
So again.....they key here is to be firm, but fair and never physically correct your dogs.

LGD's are not a type of dogs suited for inexperienced owners anyway, and especially not the Caucasian Ovcharka.
The "softest" from all LGD breeds are probably the Tornjaks and the Great Pyrenees, they are just as beautiful, great LGD breeds and far less human aggressive.
So you may want to look into these two breeds as well?
Please don't take this as me trying to criticize anyone, but there have been plenty of cases where people thought they can handle this breed only for the unfortunate dog to end up in the animal shelter or even put down.
Because the owners couldn't handle it.
And this is so very unfair for the dog.

But before you do anything, talk to the breeders first, visit their dogs so you can experience the breed in person.
And like I said, I'll gladly answer all your questions about the breed.


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## Brodyd45 (Mar 24, 2013)

Thank you very much you seem just like the type of person i need to talk to could email or pm be better?


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## MountainDogs (Sep 25, 2012)

Brodyd45 said:


> Thank you very much you seem just like the type of person i need to talk to could email or pm be better?


Feel free to PM me and I hope me answering your questions will be of good use to you


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