# I honestly don't know what to do, I'm so depressed my dogs are out of control...



## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

PLEASE HELP! Me and my boyfriend have SO many problems with our dogs. I posted a long time ago talking about my little pit bull Iggy. Some people were hell bent on telling me he would be agressive, but ironically the other one, Blanco, chow and bully mix is now aggressive, he tried to bite two people, and if a dog plays with him, forget it, he instantly fights. He is so strong too. 

Iggy is still not potty trained, he is crate trained a bit, but not at all house trained. He has insane seperation anxiety. I feel like I am such a bad person, I love them so much but I feel so unhappy. I want to fix this.

I need help mostly with house training Iggy. Our schedule is wacky, which is why I feel so guilty because it isnt Igg's fault. My boyfriend, who they live with works from 12pm-8pm. He ends up being caged that whole time. I have regular hours now, 8-3, some night classes, but I don't live with him so it is difficult for me to run over. He just goes on the floor, he has no clue! I go pee, he went to pee and of course it is too late to say anything. But he does go outside. When I take him out he goes first thing, pee and poop, but then he will go in the house just the same! Sometimes he has accidents in his crate, and he dances in his poop like it is smeared all over and splashed on the walls from him doing this. He doesnt care if he lays in his pee or poop..He got out of his crate the other day, when we got home he was on the bed, the bed had 4 huge pee marks...wut the hell...

He is very food motivated I started buckeling down and always treating him if he goes, but it isn't helping. He is 1 yr old now how often should I take him out? How do I get this right?


He also has seperation anxiety, but it is more when we are actually home. My boyfriend has a studio so he always sees us. It isn't so bad there, but at my house, oh my lord. If I go pee and leave him in my room he is screaming like he is being brutally murdered, it is a noise I have never heard from any living creature he sounds like he is from another planet. If he is in dead sleep and he sees me leaving he will fly up and chase after me. Then do his screams of death.

My boyfriend is getting a new apartment, one room for the boys ( dogs lol) then the kitchen, then living room and a bedroom. They won't be allowed in the bedroom and we are attempting to not let them in the living room, but it is impossible, the people under us will think we are crazy if he makes that noise. Plus he is a jumper, thats for sure.

I just want him to be able to be alone and not pee and poop all over. But he is with Blanco too anyway! 

Blanco, I don't know, I think we just have to accept he doesnt like dogs, or people. He tried to bite when they went to pet him he lunged too but he was acting so friendly plus he never did that before. He is so dominant, and he totally doesnt give a flying f... if we are pleased, he thinks we are his pets I think, but he is super super nervous which is why he is aggressive and I think thats the worse kind from what I've learned so far.

Help, please help me, I want to fix this more than anything I just want us all to be happy...


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

Not knowing what to do does not make you a bad person. It's clear you're overwhelmed, and from what you've shared in your post, there are many basic fundamental things that you and/or your boyfriend simply don't know when it comes to dogs. My suggestion is to get help from a professional who understands and uses OC +R training methods. 

Not many people can effectively handle a dog who is aggressive to humans and to other dogs. This kind of aggression is a serious issue, and beyond your experience and skills. Please get some help.


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## TooneyDogs (Aug 6, 2007)

Definately time to get some help. A basic obedience/good manners class along with a professional for the more serious stuff should help tremendously.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Ya...I think we def need that, where can I find out about good trainers though? All the dogs in the dog park are bady behaved as far as I've seen, does anyone live around the Newark, nj area and can recommend one? I want to ship Blanco off to Cesar Millan  that is a site I would love to see. We could def be on dog whisperer our case is so bad!! I don't want a stupid petco trainer I want someone who can handle Blanco, Iggy will be more simple to train. I just need someone to show me the specifics of what to do and I'm sure I can follow it through. Will they teach me about potty training though. Honestly that is my #1 concern. Blanco is not a blood thirsty beast he can be around people and he doesnt have to be around dogs, but Iggy NEEDS to pee and poop outside, the new apartment has rugs...


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## DogPaw (Jan 11, 2009)

As for trainers, ask around. Ask your vet. Our vet in NC had a trainer that worked at the vets office. Do a google search for trainers in your area.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

http://www.apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx

Do a search through the APDT for your area. You will need a trainer with behaviour modification experience, not just obedience.
You also may want to check out www.fearfuldogs.com for info about your fear aggressive dog.

You are overwhelmed, I hear that, take a deep breath. Many of us have dogs with issues (in fact, very few DON"T)...so if you take the steps to find a good trainer, put the plan together best you can and stick with it you should be able to move forward.

good luck


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Did you get Blanco neutered yet? That might help w/aggression. Is Iggy Neutered?
How often are you walking them? A couple times a day for about 45 min each time, would be the minimum. They should also be involved in some type of mental stimulation, like obedience training daily.

Dogs don't automatically become housebroken. You need to constantly supervise them, taking them out after playing, sleeping and eating. Tie the leash to you so you have constant sight of the dog so they can't have accidents in the house. Clean any accidents with an enzyme cleaner.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

When confronted with an overwhelming, multi-faceted situation, you want to take a step back. You can't solve all these problems at once so you may as well take some time and do a little triage. Decide which problems are the most immediate, and which ones may be effectively managed until you can get to work on them. Make a schedule that you can keep to, and budget your time for caring for your dogs.

Obviously, the aggression is the biggest deal you have going on. Our first responsibility to our dogs is to keep them from harm. You have the same responsibility to your neighbors. You've got to be realistic about where that may take you.

You clearly need some help to evaluate your dogs, and help you discover your options. Blanco may have to go for everyone's sake. He's not adoptable under the circumstances.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Yes we did get Blanco neutered and of course, it made him more agressive of course! Iggy isn't neutered weve been holding off because he has one ball lol my problem child. His testicle never dropped and isn't going to ( we got it checked out) so he is going to need a nice big operation which will cost a lot, but we will def do it soon. 

I think the tiny apartment is really driving Blanco crazy we take him from a really long walk at least a few times a week, but not everyday although we ( me or my bf) do take him out at least twice a day. I'm hoping a new apartment will help giving him more room and us having access to take him and Iggy out more.

I think the leash idea is good with Iggy although he is up our booties most of the time he does seem to wander off and do his buisness at the perfect time that we are not paying attention.

As far as giving away Blanco or putting him down... I don't think that is such a good option. I would totally sent him to Cesar though! I mean i was overwhelmed and over exaggerating a bit. He is not terribly aggressive, he is very good with people he knows. Also he is an ignoring type of dog all he really cares about is smelling everything so if he got loose he would go on a smelling rampage BUT if a dog tried to bother him or play with him, its usually only if the dog acts dominant ( jumps on his back,mouths or growls or something) then he will fight them. I think he needs a big yard a lot of exercise, a good trainer, and he will be better...i don't think hes red zone status. But, then again im really not sure of what he will do he is very unpredictable which is a bad thing.

Idk maybe that is the right option, but I could never do that and neither could my b/f...so we will keep trying.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Caesar is an idiot honestly and isn't even a certified behaviorist. Alpha techniques like what he uses wouldn't be the best thing for Blanco. Neither of your dogs respect you as the leader. You absolutely need professional help. Exercise is one of the first major things you need to do. Second is look at the food they eat and how much protein is in it. For every 10.5 % of protein your dog eats he needs at least an hours unrestrained esercise. If you're not doing that then that could be where some of your problem lies. Blanco needs some serious socializing at a safe distance and desensatizing to his tweaks of people and other dogs. You need to sit there with a treat and constantly treat him when he is non-reactive to people or dogs walking by, then gradually move him closer to the stimuli. If he has already bitten 2 people I'm surprsed animal control hasn't contacted you. A breed like his would have ZERO tolerence in the eyes of the law and opens you up to a TON of liability. If I were you and were bringing him out in public he would definitely be muzzled with one of those good basket muzzles, unless we were a safe distance from people and actively training. 

You have a very LONG process ahead of you and if you really want to involve a tv trainer I'd write to "it's me or the dog" with Victoria Stilwel. Much better training techniques with out the harsh treatment Blanco would get from Caesar. 

Good luck with finding a trainer in your area. I hope it all works out.


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## zturtilli (Aug 5, 2009)

> He also has seperation anxiety, but it is more when we are actually home. My boyfriend has a studio so he always sees us. It isn't so bad there, but at my house, oh my lord. If I go pee and leave him in my room he is screaming like he is being brutally murdered, it is a noise I have never heard from any living creature he sounds like he is from another planet. If he is in dead sleep and he sees me leaving he will fly up and chase after me. Then do his screams of death.


 Lol! but I felt sad for him... just like a human baby being left by mom... 

I'm not sure what to say though, but I believe training a dog is no-brainer thing but more importantly you have to have huge patience to know your dogs well.. (it's just my own perception, though). Certainly if you don't have time to train the boys yourself just look for dog trainers near your place. However, you may wanna read on this,
 Train a Dog Not to Bite. Don't worry it's never too late for your dog to be trained. I just hope it could help you a bit... I honestly had the same situation.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

I have to totally disagree I think that Cesar is great and I don't like victoria I mean, Victorias nice but thats totally not what Blanco needs. He needs alpha techniques badly he does not care in the slightest about treats he isn't even really food motivated. And i mean Cesars dogs behave perfectly he must be doing something right. Victoria never seems to be in control, she just gives the dogs food. Blanco really is my bfs dog so I wasn't around for his puppy years i know he would hit him tho so that contributes to the fear ( he doesn't anymore) But Blanco thinks he is alpha to the fullest, he exhibits dominance whenever he possibly can. He even brings toys or food in front of iggy just so he can growl at him, sometimes he will try it with us but we will correct him and take the bone or whatever it is. 

Also he hasn't bit two people he tried. We are on top of him I mean he was on a leash and the people tried to pet him and he tried to snap he never used to do that which is why I didn't stop the people when they tried. Well it happened once with the my bf and once with me. So now I know not to let people pet him.

Ya we have a muzzle, but havent used it he hates it really a lot he won't even do anything but try to get it off and breath funny. It is the mushy ones though.

Idk, I just don't know what to do with him. He is so difficult the only thing he ever responded to was tough training. He used to pull so bad ( my bf wouldn't take him for walks) he would just be in the backyard so he was used to doing whatever he wanted, we did the cesar style walking with the corrections and he is really much improved now.

It is just really hard to train a dog who doesnt want to please u at all and doesn't care about anything but being in control...I do really think the exercise will help though. We put him on my treadmill and it worked good he did 7 min, but he doesn't live at my house so that really isn't a long term solution.



zturtilli said:


> Lol! but I felt sad for him... just like a human baby being left by mom...
> 
> I'm not sure what to say though, but I believe training a dog is no-brainer thing but more importantly you have huge patience to know your dogs well.. (it's just my own perception). Certainly if you don't have time to train the boys yourself just look for dog trainers near your place. However, you may wanna read on this,
> Train a Dog Not to Bite. Don't worry it's never too late for your dog to be trained. I just hope it could help you a bit... I honestly had the same situation.



Hahaha I know I always say he thinks I gave birth to him! Thanks i will try that


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

Neutering didnt make him aggresive..Not socializing him enough is what has attributed to it. And your BF hitting him as a pup...

Second.. If you think he needs ALPHA training.... Nothing is going to get better...NOTHING. 

My advice is to smack that BF upside his head. And try NILIF..Theres a sticky up above this forum on how to do it..

And consistancy.. You HAVE to be consistant. 

Sounds like this poor pup was left to his own devices, Given up on time and time again..beaten into submission... And you think neutering him had something to do with it? I so think not.

This pup should be worked with every single day. not just on a whim.. Good luck.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Getting your dogs (both of them) into some positive training method classes ASAP is what is needed. You think you have a problem now? Just wait until they are both mature adult males without any obedience foundation. 

I agree 100% that neutering your dog did not make him aggressive though they can act out a little for a few weeks because of a last surge or hormones that makes it's way through their system. That happened to one of my males. He was a ***** cat and a few days after he got fixed he was like Cujo. Don't worry though, that passes in a few days to weeks. Neutering is not however, the immediate fix to aggression problems. Some folks let issues start and then they think they can fix those issues by neutering the dog. It is too late when you now have a history of aggression. 

Check out your local Kennel Clubs for info on training. Talk to your vet as well. They might be able to make recommendations.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

I dont think neautering made him more aggressive I was using sarcasm..if I must explain..saying that I've read it can make dogs less aggressive but with him it didn't...it seemed to do the opposite..but I know it was a coincidence...anyway,

I don't see the sticky, maybe it is in a diff section, whats NILIF?

The thing is though he wasn't fully socialized but he has been around dogs. His whole life he was basically in the backyard with a Rotty named Shocky, who was the best dog ever he was very calm and friendly. Then he was around a 3yr old bull terrier for a while ( someone stole the dog from my bf yard, insane I know.) Also he was randomly around my bfs moms dogs a shitzu and toy poodle and never tried anything. 

Ok let me tell u his history...Honestly I think it is other dog's faults. My bf said one time Blanco ran out of the yard and their was a pit bull in front of the neighbors house and he wasn't leashed and he attacked Blanco. Also we were in the park and a lady had a huge doberman and we asked if he was ok, if he wanted to play. She said ya def and let him off the leash, but i totally sensed that the dog was acting funny he was doing that stiff move where they totally freeze up and look from the side, and Blanco was trying to play. The dog ended up attacking him, he was on top of Blanco, my bf yanked Blanco out. The thing is the dogs never hurt him because he is amazing fighter super dog. I think its his thick coat that they can't penetrate and he has a very strong bite. BUT he never locks on or shakes just isolated bites. Next we brought him to the dog park he was good the first times, but then this jerk of a bull dog was all growling at him and trying to nip him and jump on him so I think that turned into a kind of mutual fight. Next we went and he remember his new found hate for bull dogs and tried to fight a bull dog it wasnt the same one but it really did look exactley the same. Then there was this big lanky pitbull who he attacked the thing with that is that the lady was all upset even though her dog was fine, but I didn't see the start of the fight. But then I saw her dog torturing another pitbull, he was jumping on his back, nipping him, and even though the other dog was getting mad he kept on and kept on. I knew he tried to do that to Blanco and thats why it happened. Finally, he went to the dog park and a husky was just trying to play with him and he attacked her and this time, he shook. He grabbed and shook and that was it for me, no dog park no nothing, my bf still wants him to go, but I'm scared. Anyway, it just seems to me like all these run ins with these dogs finally got him to his breaking point and now he doesn't trust any dog at all. 


As far as Iggy goes, when Iggy was a puppy my bf left them with a bone ( please don't even comment on this I wanted to wring his neck) and blanco ended up biting him that the first time they fought. Blanco will prevoke Iggy but never actually start the fight he pushes Iggy until he wants to fight, but Blanco won't hurt him its like if a kid was trying to beat u up, u might give them a push but not punch them in the face.
Their relationship is strange..If we pet Blanco Iggy tries to hump him uncontrollably. Like as soon as we give him some affection Iggy will go straight to humping the shit out of him, I dont get that. Dominance thing im guessing, but it is still weird. Also Iggy wants to fight with Blanco if he digs...it is so strange, if he starts to dig he immediately wants to go fight with him.


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm Heres a great link. 

Your pup isnt a amazing fighter super dog. He feels pain and has fear just like any dog. He is dependent on you to train him to not be this way. He depends on you to direct him for proper behavoir so that nothing seriously bad will happen to him or to others. He also depends on you to keep him away from harm...He should never be in a situation to where he is repeatedly getting attacked or allowed to...ever. Avoid those situations all together.

Positive training is this dogs best bet. Try to ignore all the alpha crud you hear about. 

Look around on this site, There is a search bar above.Youll find a multitude of ideas to try out..


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Again wow... I just don't know where to start on this one. Your bf and you both have failed these dogs on so many different levels you need to start back at square 1 as if they were puppies... what kind of idiot wants to take a dog back to a dog park where he has had already what... 3-4 fights??? IS he INSANE? Does he know the liability that is involved with that. Blanco is living at a red lined state of anxiety 24/7. Every time he has a stress he barely has a chance to recover before another stress is thrown at him. Alpha training a dog that already had aggressive tendancies is going to end up UGLY. He doens't need to be forced into submission, he needs a firm fair leader to show him how to act and exp. how to CALM down. T Touch therapy will go a long way to helping a boy like Blanco. The fact that you see and let him taunt iggy is just unreasonable. There is just soooo much wrong with this. You ABSOLUTlY NEED a good positive trainer that is not going to beat your dog into compliance. Owning a dog should be team work not I work because I'm afraid of reprocussions. BOTH need serious socialization and desensatizing. You and your BF need to get yourselves into leadership positions or your dogs will NEVER get any better. Neutering will not calm your dog down over night and at this point likely not at all since his behaviors are learned and not hormone based at this point. The lazy approach that the 2 of you have taken has done neither dog any good and it is escalating into what's going to be an outright bloodbath unless you act quickly and decisively. Personally I don't think that either of you are equipped to deal with behavior problems as serious as these are with out professional intervention and if you can't afford it then I dunno... the dogs need to be somewhere that can deal with it. You both have a LONG HARD road ahead of you and easily at least 2 months of daily serious training and desensitizing just to hopefully give Blanco a chance of not living the life he isnow and preventing Iggy from following the same road.

Sorry if this seems harsh but I deal with aggression disordersday in and day out and these 2 poor pups are the poster child of how it happens. Being in a yard with another dog is not socializing, getting them out every week to places like petsmart where there are several different dogs all the time IS socializing. They general rule of thumb is that by 1 year old your dog should have met at least 100 different dogs and 1000 different people. BIG fail on that part. 

I wish you the best of luck and before you ask... YES I WOULD tell any client or potential client the same exact things if this were a case I was presented with in real life.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Ok but the thing is NO ONE is telling me what to do...the need some serious this, some good WXYZ training ok but how do I do that, give me an example, tell me how I should fix one of his behaviors, how do I socialize him...etc. I'm sorry to get upset but I KNOW they have problems that part I know, but I don't know how to fix it, that is the answer I want.

Plus we do not let him taunt Iggy, we correct all the problem behaviors that I am telling u all about. If Blanco does that we tell him no and take his bone away. If Iggy humps we push him off and say down. Blanco and Iggy sit before he is able to go out, sits to get his leash on. They both sit out of the kitchen while we are making their food and dont let them have it until we say take it. Iggy barks like crazy at sirens we tell him quiet and make him lay down. I just don't know what to do long term and also how to get him friendly with people. Blanco doesn't even like to be pet by us...he won't get mad at us but he just will walk away..how am I suppose to get him to like being pet by random people.

And Iggy doesnt act like Blanco at all he is completely different. He is calm, very affectionate, likes people and dogs, always finds a friend in the dog park. I usually walk Iggy but if a dog comes I make him sit and give him treats, he is not aggressive at all but if he sees a dog he rips my arm out of my soccet to get to it. He is way more excitable on the leash.

I was only around a year of Blancos life and thats the last year so I don't know all the things that went on, but I know he is a nervous wreck and i don't know how to fix that. Even if I firmly say no and point at him he thinks I am going to hit him and crunches up into a ball and I never even hit him!

I just need to know a solution, believe it or not Blanco is obedient, but not in important ways. He is actually VERY smart but 10000% more stubborn. Can someone tell me what I need to do to fix it, I do want to call a trainer, but I sort of want to know things they are going to tell me to do also.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

C'mon now... we can't do ALL the work for you. There are a TON of threads on here for how to socialize and deal with practically all the stuff you're dealing with. Search the threads... read... go on line and research things. but most of all you NEED to get a trainer/behaviorest in your home ASAP. This is not... I repeat NOT something you can deal with on your own with out direct supervision from an EXPERIENCED professional. You could do more harm than good by attempting a fix on your own with information you gather on the web. We can't see the dogs, we can't see how they interact, the triggers, the body language, the posturing, the everything that is important in making a correct diagnisis of what's wrong and how to treat it. You could be interpreting it as one thing and it could be a completely different thing all together. You actually need some one to figure out what these dogs are triggering on in real life situations. You can explain situations until your blue inthe face but until a pro has actually put hands on these dogs and seen the situation IRL then all we can offer is braod generalizations. It's like calling a mechanic and asking him to fix your car based on what you describe to him over the phone... it just doesn't work. Not at this level that you are at now. 

Read some of the how to socialize articles that are on the forum. That is a good place to start. Socialize basically means exposure in a SAFE way... safe for you and for the dog as well as those that are around you. Even that needs to be supervised by a behaviorest so that you correct at the proper times, treat at the proper times, reinforce good behavior, redirect negative behavior and for gods sake don't over correct your dog. That as well will build hostility towards the exact things your trying to socialize and desensatize him to. You have one dog that is a biter, and another that is reactive. You absolutely need to get a person in your home to do a consultation and set you up with a PROPER training regimin based on what behaviors these dogs display and sorry but we can't do that.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Ya I guess we will have to get a trainer. There is so much on this thread though it is very overwhelming and many people have different opinions and there are so many different methods I don't know which one will work best for him. I contacted some people through email so hopefully that will work and not be too expensive i hope..


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

Good luck Kim. I apologize for being a tad harsh I think i misconstrued the fact you are at your wits end, Instead of trying to justify his behavior...Getting a trainer is the very best thing in the world for all of you.

I applaud you for stepping in here to get help.

I am not a professional and but would love to help. I can say that I have learned a few tricks by just reading this forum for things relating to my issues.

http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/50571-fearful-dog-thread.html

There are several situations in that thread that may be of some help.

You have to just try any and all of everything till you find what makes him click.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

All I can tell you is that harsh methods such as electric collars and alhpa rolls will only make Blanco shut down more or get even more aggressive. He needs R+ training to help build trust in his handlers. Abuse is not a reward for a dog. A dog should work for you out of anticipation of reward not fear of reprocussion. Shame on your BF for being so harsh with him during his impressionable years/months. He really set the stage for how Blanco is going to view people and unfortunately it isn't a good one. That is why he barely tolerates you petting him. He never knows what could cause him to get whacked. As much as you think Victoria Stilwel doesn't do much she really does. Watch some of her "it's me or the dog" she is more of a psychological trainer that uses the dog's natural instincts to her advantage and that is what Blanco needs. some one who can out smart him not out muscle him. I'd seriously write her a letter and ask for help. 

You say that you hope it isn't too expensive well it is going to be. My basic rate starts at $45 an hour and up depending on the problem with the dog (and that is CHEAP) I have seen many who charge a flat rate of $100.00 a class so don't be surprised. Most good behaviorists who are truly in it for the love of the dogs will be willing to work with you on the money end because they really do want to see you keep your dog. All the conflicting info on here is the other reason you actually need some one to see the dogs and decide what is the best protocol for THAT dog. 

Well good luck again. I hope that you find a good behaviorest to help with Blanco.


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## Herrick's Mommy (Nov 5, 2009)

*Behaviorist...sorry, the typos were kind of getting to me. 

Kim, all I can say is that I feel that your frustration is getting the best of you. You really want to help your dog but at the same time you feel overwhelmed with the information given to you. Like many others said, read through it and choose what is best for your situation. What matters is that you have decided that you want to make your pet's life better and that you want to take the initiative in doing so. All you need to do now is start a program with someone and be consistent about it. I hope you find what is best for you and your dog. There are many threads that have so much information that can help you. I hope you find what you need.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

yes I know my spelling is horrid. My fingers go faster than my brain can cesnsor and correct. That is usually why I only go to forums that offer a spell check option.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Kim201 said:


> There is so much on this thread though it is very overwhelming and many people have different opinions and there are so many different methods I don't know which one will work best for him.


There are a number of methods that may work as well for any given dog. Rewards and/or corrections have their place in the world of dog training, but the origins of the problem behaviors do matter. 

You need, first thing, to find somebody who can competently evaluate the dog(s). You also need to understand that there are people--regardless of which school of training they adhere to--who totally stink at their job. In fact, they are probably in the majority.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Marsh Muppet said:


> There are a number of methods that may work as well for any given dog. Rewards and/or corrections have their place in the world of dog training, but the origins of the problem behaviors do matter.
> 
> You need, first thing, to find somebody who can competently evaluate the dog(s). You also need to understand that there are people--regardless of which school of training they adhere to--who totally stink at their job. In fact, they are probably in the majority.


That is def true. I talked to a bunch of trainers and some are just wacko and totally don't get what I'm saying. Also some are afraid of aggressive dogs so. I found one guy that s0unds pretty good and he does free consultations which is def a plus so hopefully it works out. This one trainer who sounded knowledgeable but was just too far from me gave me a site apdt.com which has a huge directory so that was very helpful. Ive just been calling #s like a crazy person and hoping to find someone good.



Herrick's Mommy said:


> *Behaviorist...sorry, the typos were kind of getting to me.
> 
> Kim, all I can say is that I feel that your frustration is getting the best of you. You really want to help your dog but at the same time you feel overwhelmed with the information given to you. Like many others said, read through it and choose what is best for your situation. What matters is that you have decided that you want to make your pet's life better and that you want to take the initiative in doing so. All you need to do now is start a program with someone and be consistent about it. I hope you find what is best for you and your dog. There are many threads that have so much information that can help you. I hope you find what you need.


Thanks  it is def overwhelming, but the trainers all said it is probably a lot to handle and desensitizing is the best bet, but do to his breed, disposition, and history it is really going to be hard. I think he can do it my big boy will be happier soon.



Dog_Shrink said:


> All I can tell you is that harsh methods such as electric collars and alhpa rolls will only make Blanco shut down more or get even more aggressive. He needs R+ training to help build trust in his handlers. Abuse is not a reward for a dog. A dog should work for you out of anticipation of reward not fear of reprocussion. Shame on your BF for being so harsh with him during his impressionable years/months. He really set the stage for how Blanco is going to view people and unfortunately it isn't a good one. That is why he barely tolerates you petting him. He never knows what could cause him to get whacked. As much as you think Victoria Stilwel doesn't do much she really does. Watch some of her "it's me or the dog" she is more of a psychological trainer that uses the dog's natural instincts to her advantage and that is what Blanco needs. some one who can out smart him not out muscle him. I'd seriously write her a letter and ask for help.
> 
> You say that you hope it isn't too expensive well it is going to be. My basic rate starts at $45 an hour and up depending on the problem with the dog (and that is CHEAP) I have seen many who charge a flat rate of $100.00 a class so don't be surprised. Most good behaviorists who are truly in it for the love of the dogs will be willing to work with you on the money end because they really do want to see you keep your dog. All the conflicting info on here is the other reason you actually need some one to see the dogs and decide what is the best protocol for THAT dog.
> 
> Well good luck again. I hope that you find a good behaviorest to help with Blanco.



Ya it def expensive, the people I've talked to all seem to be a lot of money and his aggression makes it worse because I guess they feel like they will need to work harder, be at risk, etc. I hope I find a good fit for him too and hopefully the motivation that he needs, that is going to be tricky.


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## echoica (Dec 22, 2009)

i think you really need to assess why you even have dogs to begin with. you are clearly not fulfilling their needs. you seem to know very little about dogs or training as well - why would you ever chose these more difficult breeds with in-bred special needs to begin with?! if you really intend to keep these dogs (which i think is a bad idea) you NEED to get them rehabilitated and into behavior modification training with a professional ASAP.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

I have dogs because I love dogs and I've had a dog my whole life. The pit/chow Blanco is my b/fs dog so I didn't chose him nor did I screw him up. The pit doesn't have aggression he has seperation anxiety and is having potty training issues which is a difficulty that could happen with any breed. He wouldn't have those problems if I had him at my house. My boyfriend also bought him so he is technically his as in he stays at his house. And it was also not my decision to get him. Ya I don't know about aggression issues because none of my family pets ever had the problem Blanco has..also I am 22 so I really don't feel like I should know that much I am learning.

Amd who would you suggest giving Blanco to? You want him? No one will want him, that is the only reason why I feel that it is the right thing to keep him.


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## echoica (Dec 22, 2009)

Kim201 said:


> I have dogs because I love dogs and I've had a dog my whole life. The pit/chow Blanco is my b/fs dog so I didn't chose him nor did I screw him up. The pit doesn't have aggression he has seperation anxiety and is having potty training issues which is a difficulty that could happen with any breed. He wouldn't have those problems if I had him at my house. My boyfriend also bought him so he is technically his as in he stays at his house. And it was also not my decision to get him. Ya I don't know about aggression issues because none of my family pets ever had the problem Blanco has..also I am 22 so I really don't feel like I should know that much I am learning.
> 
> Amd who would you suggest giving Blanco to? You want him? No one will want him, that is the only reason why I feel that it is the right thing to keep him.


i think your boyfriend probably needs the training more than you do at this point as the onus falls on him as they are his dogs. it is admirable for you to be here to try to find help but when will he take responsibility for the chaos he has created with these dogs


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

I know but they are a part of my life now a huge part. Blancos issues are just so deep and I don't know if he can be rehabilitated. Iggy I have total hope for I mean he has a few problems more obedience than psychological you know. But like I said I feel like no one would ever want Blanco and he seems like he only loves us so I actually think he would also be very depressed if we gave him away but again..noone will take him. 
"Yes I have a 3 year old chow/pit mix for adoption,yes, it is the worst mix ever. Yes he is extremely dog aggressive and people aggressive. No he walks terrible on a leash. He is also food aggressive and toy aggressive. He is really nervous and everything scares him. He sheds profusely and he prob wont let you brush him. So we have a deal??!!!!"


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Wow that's a great ad for Blanco Kim.. sorry but I had to snicker a bit to myself but honestly a LOT of those issues are VERY fixable with a lot of time devotion and proper training. I mean you're likely looking at a year easy of consistant training but it can be done. Those you can't fix at least you can manage.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Lol yep hes so marketable. Well this is what weve been doing as well as the latest incidents...

Just trying to never get angry or use negatives. Like the other day we were doing the furminator outside. My boyfriend was giving him treats n I was doing it because I think he trusts me more in terms of touching weird spaces on him. So he was fine ( he doesnt get mad if we brush him, I just think he would bite a groomer or anyone else ) Zeus, a HUGE white german shepard that lives in the complex wasn't an his leash and totally ran up on Blanco ( he ran up on all of us. I saw him and said woahwoah but my bf said he didn't hear me..anyway Blanco immediately attacked him of course. Zeus owner came around the corner and called him, he didn't fight thank god cause he is so big. Anyway my bf was getting rough with him as far as making him sit and he was getting more aggitated and growling so I yelled at my bf. I tried to just redirect him and calm him a bit. Anyway we went back to brushing him he has so much fur.

We're gonna start loose leash walking method. 

OH YA! The trainer came to meet us and Blanco. We were outside, he said he sees a lot of anxiety, Blanco was being his nutjob self not behaving at all so it was good lol. He is going to come tommorrow with his dog ( oh lord..) and we are going to the park to do tests. He suggested to get Blanco the slow feed bowl. We got it, I think it is helping at leash with him eating slower, also we changed to feeding him twice a day the trainer said maybe he feels like hes only getting fed once so he better eat for his life. He also said we will work on hand feeding him for that. 

I furminated him again today alone, he was good better than when my bf is around. I say that mostly because I was brushing his butt a lot and he hates people touching his butt. I was giving him carrots. Hes such a veggie man he loves all veggies and fruits the best I think we are going to use those as his reinforcers. 

Today we were walking them and my bf didnt bring the keys so we were locked out. WITH the dogs..So he had to climb in the window but its the 2nd floor so the window is high so there was a thing sticking out of the ground that we put their leashes on. My bf used a stick to open the window and then he was up standing on my shoulders and threw the stick to them. Then i hear growls and they start fighing and my bf is standing on my shoulders which is killing me, I'm trying to look back and yelling their names, so he gets off I run over and split them up so I had a little nervous fit after that. Their fights usually happen cause blanco had something and he wont share and he growls a lot at iggy but iggy keeps trying then he starts getting mad then they fight. So I want to murder my bf for that one.


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## echoica (Dec 22, 2009)

i am sooooo glad to hear that you have gotten a trainer to work on these issues with you. that is a great first step!! good luck and keep us posted


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

It sounds like you're making some positive headway YAY for you  Keep up the good work and each time your BF is hostile with the dogs kick him in the balls. He'll be like WTF was that for but I betcha he'll think twice before he gets hostile with them in the future


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Update...Well the trainer came that day, but we are still yet to set up an actual meeting. I kinda wanna kill him he says since its the christmas week he is busy. So I guess we will set something up soon. Blanco has actually been good. My boyfriend has been focusing on controlling him more during walks ( we got clickers but havent tried the traditional loose leash walking yet.) But basically what he does is if Blanco pulls he stops and makes him sit so its working pretty good. But I guess since Blanco is being good Iggy figures its his turn to act really annoying.

Ive been wanting to kill him. He purposely barks like a crazy man if we put him in his cage if it isn't bed time. So what we have been doing is just ignoring him which is really hard since I want to go over and snip his tongue out. So when he stops then we say good boy quiet and let him out, which he totally doesn't get. He is so stupid honestly, I love him but he is damn slow, he doesnt get anything, he cant make connections. I think thats why it is so hard to potty train him he only understands instant gratification. Ex. he will sit right away if I have a treat because he knows hes getting it. Ive been making him sit before I open the door and tell him come for about a month and he still has no clue. If I open the door he and don't say anything he tries to just go through, not even a look of " am i suppose to be sitting?" ugh! 

A question I have, he greets dogs terribly I think he has on leash reaction thing. He doesn't get aggressive just really excited. Im frustrated with that because I want him to meet dogs, but if I do the making him sit and treating him he pays no attention the dog, but doesn't get to meet him or her. If he pulls like a maniac should I just turn and walk away until he stops it? Like loose leash walking?

AND lol I have a comment. I was watching Cesar Millan today, don't murder me. But I cant help it I love him so much! I think he is so good he has such good control and I feel like he isn't mean he just is telling the dog if he or she is doing something wrong. Whats wrong with that? I just don't get why no one likes him?


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Kim201 said:


> Ive been wanting to kill him. He purposely barks like a crazy man if we put him in his cage if it isn't bed time. So what we have been doing is just ignoring him which is really hard since I want to go over and snip his tongue out. So when he stops then we say good boy quiet and let him out, which he totally doesn't get. He is so stupid honestly, I love him but he is damn slow, he doesnt get anything, he cant make connections.


Your frustration and anger is transferring right into your dogs. The greatest trainer in the world CANNOT help you if you don't change your attitude. Frustration is the WORST emotion to express around dogs.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with getting a trainer... but YOU have to be open to changing, and so does your BF.



> AND lol I have a comment. I was watching Cesar Millan today, don't murder me. But I cant help it I love him so much! I think he is so good he has such good control and I feel like he isn't mean he just is telling the dog if he or she is doing something wrong. Whats wrong with that? I just don't get why no one likes him?


Cesar Millan is a very controversial topic. Some hate him... some love him. Personally, I like him. He has an entertaining show and he has some great ideas. HOWEVER, people shouldn't go trying to use his techniques all willy nilly. You can "shhht!" a dog all day long and he's not going to listen if you don't have the right attitude or aren't projecting the right emotions. I think even Cesar-haters will admit that the is a lot to be said for a calm, confident attitude when training dogs. 

You are projecting a frustrated, angry emotion to your dogs. This makes them feel very unstable and they will continue to exhibit negative behaviors until you are able to control your own emotions. What does Cesar say... something like, "I rehabilitate dogs and train people..."


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## HORSEandHOUND (May 28, 2009)

First thing you have to accept is that YOU and your boyfriend caused ALL of this to happen. Dogs dont magically develop good behavior, and they certainly dont develop bad habits like this without help.

I suggest finding someone to help you alter your behavior before even starting with your dogs. This is all human induced, sadly.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

I sometimes show frustration but not in what i was mentioning when he was barking his head off i was completely ignoring him and when he was quiet I would go over and say good boy. When he doesn't get that hes suppose to sit at the door I don't scream at him I bring him back, tell him to sit, stay, and then come and give him a treat. If I must explain EVERYTHING, I was saying as a whole I am frustrated that he doesn't understand but I am still being calm when the actual thing is happening. Honestly I think you all are full of it if you never get mad at your dogs lol I dunno I have a feeling a lot of people's dogs on here are not perfect to say the least. But God forbid I should say sarcastically "I've been wanting to kill him," really got to watch what you say I guess. I guess no one gets mad at their kids here either? lol strange I say.

And yes dogs arent fabulous on their own but some can be smarter than others and Iggy isn't smart so it is difficult to teach him certain things.

Anyway, I like Cesar because I thing his techniques work good on Iggy. Maybe thats cause hes not nervous, but I don't think hes smart enough to understand things like loose leash walking. I tried sitting with him everytime he pulls and he pulls when I do that alot, but if I give him a correction he walks perfect. I guess different techniques for different dogs. Cesar techniques work with Blanco too, but he needs very gentle corrections or he gets scared.

So any suggestions about the walking Iggy thing? "A question I have, he greets dogs terribly I think he has on leash reaction thing. He doesn't get aggressive just really excited. Im frustrated with that because I want him to meet dogs, but if I do the making him sit and treating him he pays no attention the dog, but doesn't get to meet him or her. If he pulls like a maniac should I just turn and walk away until he stops it? Like loose leash walking?"


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Of course i get frustrated with my dogs. Of course my dogs aren't perfect. But... I read your post and pretty much just went "wow." If you are ignoring him but thinking "gosh, I'd like to snip his tongue out," he can sense that you want to snip his tongue out (LOL, okay, so he won't know the exact thing, but he will understand that you are frustrated and your emotions are running high).

And... loose leash walking isn't exactly rocket science. ANY dog can learn that, mentally handicapped or not. Perhaps you are making it too difficult?

I tried the "walk in the other direction" method with my GSD puppy and it simply did not work. Pulling was a self-rewarding behavior for her, meaning the pulling was what was fun... and it didn't matter what direction she was going in. If I changed directions, she pulled happily in the new direction.

What worked better was looping the leash around my waist (NOTE: this can be dangerous if your dog outweighs you and/or is a very strong puller... alternatively, you can simply hold the leash, but I liked to have both hands free) and using treats to lure/entice her into the proper position. When she would get into the correct position, I would use a marker word (I use the word "Yes!!") and then feed her a treat. Eventually, I required longer periods of time in the correct position for her to earn the treat.

Different methods work for different dogs... but IMO if you are attempting to use Cesar's methods and your dogs are still showing these dominant behaviors (and a lot of times pulling on the leash is a dominance issue... the alpha dog is always the leader), they are not working all that well.

Oh, and also, regarding the excitement meeting other dogs, is it possible you are tensing up when meeting the other dogs... perhaps getting a better grip on the leash because you anticipate that he's going to misbehave? Perhaps he is sensing you preparing yourself and is getting even more excited as a result? 

Slowly work up to meeting other dogs. Work on walking PAST other dogs first. Once he can walk past without trying to pull towards them, then work up to an actual meeting.


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## SupaSweet777 (Aug 22, 2009)

Out of curiousity, what made you guys get a pit bull?



Dog_Shrink said:


> All I can tell you is that harsh methods such as electric collars and alhpa rolls will only make Blanco shut down more or get even more aggressive. He needs R+ training to help build trust in his handlers. Abuse is not a reward for a dog. A dog should work for you out of anticipation of reward not fear of reprocussion. Shame on your BF for being so harsh with him during his impressionable years/months. He really set the stage for how Blanco is going to view people and unfortunately it isn't a good one. That is why he barely tolerates you petting him. He never knows what could cause him to get whacked. As much as you think Victoria Stilwel doesn't do much she really does. Watch some of her "it's me or the dog" she is more of a psychological trainer that uses the dog's natural instincts to her advantage and that is what Blanco needs. some one who can out smart him not out muscle him. I'd seriously write her a letter and ask for help.
> 
> You say that you hope it isn't too expensive well it is going to be. My basic rate starts at $45 an hour and up depending on the problem with the dog (and that is CHEAP) I have seen many who charge a flat rate of $100.00 a class so don't be surprised. Most good behaviorists who are truly in it for the love of the dogs will be willing to work with you on the money end because they really do want to see you keep your dog. All the conflicting info on here is the other reason you actually need some one to see the dogs and decide what is the best protocol for THAT dog.
> 
> Well good luck again. I hope that you find a good behaviorest to help with Blanco.


You're a trainer?? Can you train Jhazmyn not to hog the bed?? Sheesh, she is a bed hog. We lay around her!! LOL


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

SupaSweet777 said:


> Out of curiousity, what made you guys get a pit bull?
> 
> 
> 
> You're a trainer?? Can you train Jhazmyn not to hog the bed?? Sheesh, she is a bed hog. We lay around her!! LOL


A behaviorest actually. and if Jhazmyn is the dog in your signature send here over... I love bully breeds  Personally tho I don't let anything over 6 pounds sleep on the bed. I'm also a bed hog and I'll be damned if I'm gonna compete with a dog.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> Of course i get frustrated with my dogs. Of course my dogs aren't perfect. But... I read your post and pretty much just went "wow." If you are ignoring him but thinking "gosh, I'd like to snip his tongue out," he can sense that you want to snip his tongue out (LOL, okay, so he won't know the exact thing, but he will understand that you are frustrated and your emotions are running high).


Well maybe but I don't really think so I mean I completely ignore him. He still thinks if he cries we will let him out because in the past we have. Maybe hes just being perisistant. He's actually doing it right now. 



nikelodeon79 said:


> And... loose leash walking isn't exactly rocket science. ANY dog can learn that, mentally handicapped or not. Perhaps you are making it too difficult?
> 
> I tried the "walk in the other direction" method with my GSD puppy and it simply did not work. Pulling was a self-rewarding behavior for her, meaning the pulling was what was fun... and it didn't matter what direction she was going in. If I changed directions, she pulled happily in the new direction.
> 
> ...


Well he does not really pull. I mean I am saying pull but he really just tries to walk ahead of me the leash will get a bit tight but nothing crazy. I just want him to walk beside me ( which he does if I correct him a few times.) This is mostly going back to the house because it is cold and he wants to get back inside in a rush. But if we see a dog he pulls in every sense of the word. He shows dominance toward my bf and Blanco sometimes. The trainer said he seems shy and like he wants to be dominant but he is confused about it. He actually has peed on my boyfriend ( like lift leg peeing, my bfs leg is a tree peeing.)

He is small enough for me to loop the leash, hes tiny I think hes 23lbs, with no fat, his ribs show. We say hes a new breed, mini pit bull.



nikelodeon79 said:


> Oh, and also, regarding the excitement meeting other dogs, is it possible you are tensing up when meeting the other dogs... perhaps getting a better grip on the leash because you anticipate that he's going to misbehave? Perhaps he is sensing you preparing yourself and is getting even more excited as a result?
> 
> Slowly work up to meeting other dogs. Work on walking PAST other dogs first. Once he can walk past without trying to pull towards them, then work up to an actual meeting.


I don't think I tense up I mean I'm not nervous because he isn't ever aggressive to any other dog hes met. I don't hold the leash differently but I never know what to do. Stop and let the dog pass, drag him past the dog, turn around, I dunno. What should I make him do though to pass the other dog, just give him treats as we pass?




SupaSweet777 said:


> Out of curiousity, what made you guys get a pit bull? L


My b/f got Blanco before I met him. Iggy he got when I met him but I had no say we had only been dating for like 2 months. His friend from work, her moms dog had puppies. But hes not even the aggression problem he just has annoying regular dog problems.


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## SupaSweet777 (Aug 22, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> A behaviorest actually. and if Jhazmyn is the dog in your signature send here over... I love bully breeds  Personally tho I don't let anything over 6 pounds sleep on the bed. I'm also a bed hog and I'll be damned if I'm gonna compete with a dog.


That would be Jhazmyn. And if she's not in bed then she just sits there and stares and stares and stares until you let her get in.....lol

She's my baby though and I love her so I guess it's ok if she hogs the bed.



> He is small enough for me to loop the leash, hes tiny I think hes 23lbs, with no fat, his ribs show. We say hes a new breed, mini pit bull.



Pit bulls are not supposed to be huge. It's frustrating that people think they should be big. Weight should be between 35-55lbs. 





> My b/f got Blanco before I met him. Iggy he got when I met him but I had no say we had only been dating for like 2 months. His friend from work, her moms dog had puppies. But hes not even the aggression problem he just has annoying regular dog problems.



He should have studied the breed before he even got a pit. It's irresponsible owners like him that give pits a bad name. I'm not trying to be rude but pit bulls are not for everyone. They require work and some effort in raising them.


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Kim201 said:


> Well maybe but I don't really think so I mean I completely ignore him. He still thinks if he cries we will let him out because in the past we have. Maybe hes just being perisistant. He's actually doing it right now.


Stay strong! After awhile, he'll figure out his little tantrums aren't going to get him anywhere. ;-) 

Once he does settle down and be a good boy, let him out and praise him. He'll soon figure out that you want him to be nice and quiet.

Make the crate a happy place with treats and a stuffed kong to keep him occupied.



> Well he does not really pull. I mean I am saying pull but he really just tries to walk ahead of me the leash will get a bit tight but nothing crazy. I just want him to walk beside me ( which he does if I correct him a few times.) This is mostly going back to the house because it is cold and he wants to get back inside in a rush.


Try the treat method. Hold a treat near your left hip and when he starts walking beside you, tell him "YES!" in a happy, enthusiastic voice and give him the treat. 



> But if we see a dog he pulls in every sense of the word. He shows dominance toward my bf and Blanco sometimes. The trainer said he seems shy and like he wants to be dominant but he is confused about it. He actually has peed on my boyfriend ( like lift leg peeing, my bfs leg is a tree peeing.)


Your boyfriend needs to assert himself as a leader without punishment. Corrections are okay... but punishment is not. Your goal is for him to respect, not fear, your boyfriend. A dog with a dominant personality is going to continue to try and assert himself as alpha if he doesn't respect a person, even if the dog is afraid of that person.



> He is small enough for me to loop the leash, hes tiny I think hes 23lbs, with no fat, his ribs show. We say hes a new breed, mini pit bull.


Have you had him in to the vet recently? I would want to rule out a physical problem for his behavior issues first and foremost. You shouldn't be able to see all his ribs.



> I don't think I tense up I mean I'm not nervous because he isn't ever aggressive to any other dog hes met. I don't hold the leash differently but I never know what to do. Stop and let the dog pass, drag him past the dog, turn around, I dunno. What should I make him do though to pass the other dog, just give him treats as we pass?


Try the same method you use as in loose leash walking. Put that treat (make sure it's something of high value... something he really loves) by your hip and preoccupy him with the treat rather than the other dog. Just keep walkin' on by. If the other person wants your dogs to meet, simply tell them you're sorry, but your dog is in training.


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## PandaBear (Sep 6, 2009)

My dog hates to be in the crate when there is light. Thats why I keep his crate in my bedroom where the room is darker therefore he knows that he has to go to sleep. I also make sure that there are his favorite toys in and kongs, and special teats just for crate.


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

PandaBear said:


> My dog hates to be in the crate when there is light. Thats why I keep his crate in my bedroom where the room is darker therefore he knows that he has to go to sleep. I also make sure that there are his favorite toys in and kongs, and special teats just for crate.


Keeping the crate in the bedroom can also help the dog associate it with being a "safe" and good place. My dogs' crates are in my bedroom and they are crated at night. They feel safe because we are right there with them.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

i apologize if anyone has hit on these points, because i didn't read every single post, but i read and scanned through a lot and here's what i have to offer..

you said he kept getting out of his crate while you guys were gone and would go all over the place.. i don't know what's with your crate, but that shouldn't be possible, so start by getting a crate that is secure. whether he goes in the crate or not, at least he's not ruining your new apartment, right? and as far as house training goes; start giving him treats and praising him immensely when he does go outside, if you don't already. 

as far as his seperation anxiety; i'm not sure what to do about it while you are home, but if you're worried about it when you leave, start trying different things like i heard some other people suggest; keep the crate in a common area, if that doesn't work, try a really safe area, dark or light, quiet or with a tv on; sometimes dogs just like the noise because it makes them feel less alone. my puppy whines a lot in his crate when we leave unless we have a tv or radio on. also try covering the crate itself with a blanket so he can't see around, it might calm him down. and try introducing a new toy to him that he would like in the crate that he can only have while he's in there. it might give him incentive to be happy.

also, is he actually crate trained, or do you have to drag him into the crate, because it soundsl like he hates it. maybe you should go back to step one here and start throwing cheese or treats in there and getting him used to it and associating it with good things all over again. 

good luck. 

EDIT; also, i don't know if you have read the NILIF (nothing in life is free) sticky, but you should. i think it would be great groundwork to build up their obedience and manners. and it might help with their anxiety/aggression.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

SupaSweet777 said:


> Pit bulls are not supposed to be huge. It's frustrating that people think they should be big. Weight should be between 35-55lbs.
> 
> He should have studied the breed before he even got a pit. It's irresponsible owners like him that give pits a bad name. I'm not trying to be rude but pit bulls are not for everyone. They require work and some effort in raising them.


I know you say that but he is tiny I tell people and they are non reactive about it and they see him and they r like how old is he!!!? Smaller than any pit bull I have ever seen and everyone in newark has a pit bull. He's strong though so I am thankful he is small because I can physically handle him very easy. Thanks God for helpin me out there.

Well actually I feel it is the chow in Blanco that is the problem. His dad was the chow and he was actually very mean my bf said and the mom was the pit and she was very mellow and sweet. I think he has the attitude of a chow,which are not people dogs, or good with other dogs. I've read and heard they are very smart but stubborn, bad with strangers, protective, and very dominant. ALL the trainers I've spoke to ( which was a lot when I was trying to find a good one) said chows are awful. I mean I know some people love them but like I said any research I've done makes them out to look bad. He really has no pit bull traits except the physical strength and huge head lol so its a very bad combonation. I guess he was waved by the adorableness lol because he was a insanely cute puppy ( I'll post a pic)plus he was 30 bucks. 

As I keep saying Iggy is not aggressive I don't know if your talking about other things but as I said his faults are not being too bright and his seperation anxiety and need to be right next to us are the source of a lot of probs.



nikelodeon79 said:


> Stay strong! After awhile, he'll figure out his little tantrums aren't going to get him anywhere. ;-)
> 
> Once he does settle down and be a good boy, let him out and praise him. He'll soon figure out that you want him to be nice and quiet.
> 
> ...


Yes I def think he fears him. Obviously he doesn't has respect for him if he marked him, I think both our mouths were on the floor for that one.
Ya his bark is maddening though, its a high pitched gargoil screetch. But I will continue to ignore him even though it is very hard. I ignored him this morning and he finally stopped, now hes crying for my mom whose in the kitchen for 20 min so far.




nikelodeon79 said:


> Have you had him in to the vet recently? I would want to rule out a physical problem for his behavior issues first and foremost. You shouldn't be able to see all his ribs.


Yep, poop tests, etc, etc. They say hes fine. He has a lot of muscle tone. My mom thinks he has celiac disease because he has a very sensitive stomach that may explain how small he is too. People ask us if we feed him, I'm like NOPE! Next time we go to the vet im going to ask them if there is any way they can find out if he has that. We feed him 2 cups do you think we should increase?




nikelodeon79 said:


> Try the same method you use as in loose leash walking. Put that treat make sure it's something of high value... something he really loves) by your hip and preoccupy him with the treat rather than the other dog. Just keep walkin' on by. If the other person wants your dogs to meet, simply tell them you're sorry, but your dog is in training.


Ok sounds good, everything is high value for him hes a food lover. 



DJEtzel said:


> i apologize if anyone has hit on these points, because i didn't read every single post, but i read and scanned through a lot and here's what i have to offer..
> 
> you said he kept getting out of his crate while you guys were gone and would go all over the place.. i don't know what's with your crate, but that shouldn't be possible, so start by getting a crate that is secure. whether he goes in the crate or not, at least he's not ruining your new apartment, right? and as far as house training goes; start giving him treats and praising him immensely when he does go outside, if you don't already..


It is the fold up one and he jumps around so much that he pops the whole panel off. We will come home sometimes, even if he is still inside it and the cage will be across the room. We are going to get the ones that only have the cage part in the front and the rest is solid because he is getting out more I guess since hes stronger now.



DJEtzel said:


> as far as his seperation anxiety; i'm not sure what to do about it while you are home, but if you're worried about it when you leave, start trying different things like i heard some other people suggest; keep the crate in a common area, if that doesn't work, try a really safe area, dark or light, quiet or with a tv on; sometimes dogs just like the noise because it makes them feel less alone. my puppy whines a lot in his crate when we leave unless we have a tv or radio on. also try covering the crate itself with a blanket so he can't see around, it might calm him down. and try introducing a new toy to him that he would like in the crate that he can only have while he's in there. it might give him incentive to be happy.
> 
> also, is he actually crate trained, or do you have to drag him into the crate, because it soundsl like he hates it. maybe you should go back to step one here and start throwing cheese or treats in there and getting him used to it and associating it with good things all over again.
> 
> ...


No he actually goes in his crate very well at bed time or if we leave we just tell him go to bed or go to your cage. He also will go in if we give him a bony to chew on. He only hates it if we are not inside with him lol. If we are home and we put him inside because we are letting him digest food and dont want him to poop, or I go in the shower he will cry, well scream I should say. This morning my bf got up early so I wanted to go back to sleep and he was up ( we took him out, etc, etc. Well when my bf left I wanted to go on the comp so I am up when he is in the cage he started screaming for 45 min. While I ignored him. Finally when I went to bed he shut up but I feel like if I was up he would have never stopped. If we take too long to leave he will start too. But yes thats a good idea I think I will start the treats in his crate again. Im hesistant to leave him with a kong because a lot of treats sometimes upset his stomach, even a flavored raw hide gave him diarrhea, but he doesnt get those anymore he almost choked on one. I'm going to try out the kong and hope for the best.

Ya I read the NILIF, I have to read a bit more about it, but it sounds good. Thanks everyone


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Kim201 said:


> We feed him 2 cups do you think we should increase?


What kind of food are you feeding? 



> It is the fold up one and he jumps around so much that he pops the whole panel off. We will come home sometimes, even if he is still inside it and the cage will be across the room. We are going to get the ones that only have the cage part in the front and the rest is solid because he is getting out more I guess since hes stronger now.


Sounds like he's a high energy dog that needs more outlet for all his energy (mental and physical). Try "tracking" type games like hiding treats throughout the house and having him find them. Join an obedience class and have sessions of practice at home. Go on long walks, too!



> But yes thats a good idea I think I will start the treats in his crate again. Im hesistant to leave him with a kong because a lot of treats sometimes upset his stomach, even a flavored raw hide gave him diarrhea, but he doesnt get those anymore he almost choked on one. I'm going to try out the kong and hope for the best.


There are lots of "healthy" kong stuffing alternatives. There is natural peanut butter, plain yogurt, ground beef, mashed bananas, and combinations. Fill one up, sticking treats in there to make it more difficult, and freeze the whole thing. That way, it'll take him longer to eat. Make sure you use a BIG kong that he can't possibly swallow.

I never give my dogs rawhides. If I want to give them a chewy treat, I give them bully sticks. (Bully sticks can be rich, though).


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Ya i give him bully sticks sometimes. It was so scary when he was choking. I heard him make a funny noise so I went over and he didn't know what to do he was like holding his face with his paws and shaking it around. My boyfriend went and yanked it out of his throat, it was one of those pigs ears. I was crying after he looked so helpless it was really terrible. 

Blanco did the same thing with a WHOLE rawhide bone. I don't even know how he swallowed it. The only reason we knew is that he threw it up. Completely whole, untouched and it was a good size. Thats why I am nervous with a kong for him because I feel like he will rip it apart and eat it ( hes a toy destroyer.) So we will have to watch them the first few times.

Im ordering a whole bunch for them off ebay, kongs, gentle leaders, jacket and boots for Iggy. It is hard to exercise Iggy because it is SO cold and after five minutes he is shaking, bright pink, in a crunched up ball position looking at me with his tongue sticking out of his mouth ( that means hes upset). I feel like it is cruel and unusual punishment to take him to the park lol.

We feed him pedigree just the dry food, 2 cups, sometimes 2 1/2.

Yes ill try healthy treats both the boys love veggies and fruit!


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

I give my dogs whole raw carrots to munch on. They love them!

Regarding food... you may want to consider switching. Unfortunately, Purina really isn't a great brand. The better brands of dog food seem very expensive, but actually you feed less because it is so much better for the dog, and they use more of it.

Some good brands are Wellness, Orijen, Acana, Innova, Evo, and Fromm. My personal favorite is Acana Pacifica. It is grain free. I also like the Wellness Super5mix line.

Personally, I feed my dogs a raw prey model diet. They are doing just fantastic on a natural raw diet.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

We originally had Iggy on Newmans puppy food but Blanco can eat anything and he is very healthy so after a while we just ended up switching Iggy to that food because we buy the huge bag at costco. I think we will switch Iggy because he really is so small and his ribs show a lot, I feel like there must be something wrong. He also has mushy poop a lot.

Ya they LOVE carrots especially Blanco, and apples he is so cute when I eat them. I cant resist lol, I always give him the core but he looks so adorable I end up taking like 3 bites and giving him the rest.

Do you give them raw meat also? 

side bar, baby Blanco....


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

another idea for trying to keep iggy quiet is maybe 10 minutes a day, put him in his crate, and keep some cheese or some kind of little treats on you that he really loves, and stand there, not looking at him, untill he stops whining. or if he doesn't start whining right away, give him a treat while in the cage and say quiet. otherwise, you'll just have to stand there and wait till he lets up, even for a moment, and say quiet, while giving him a treat. 

if you do this enough, hopefully he should learn that quiet means to not whine/bark, and that it's a good thing. if he does start catching on, then when he stays quieter longer, let him out, give him a treat, and lots of praise. he'll learn he can only get out when he's quiet and that it's praised in his crate too.


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Oh my gosh! Baby Blanco is ADORABLE!



Kim201 said:


> Do you give them raw meat also?


My dogs get nothing but raw meat, bones and organs. I do not feed kibble (however, I do not begrudge people who choose to feed kibble, I have simply made a decision based on my research to feed my own dogs raw ).

They each get 2% of their ideal adult body weight daily, broken down into two feedings. The goal I try to acheive over a week's time is 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ (with half of that being liver). 

This is a typical day for two of my dogs:
Morning: 1 or 2 unenhanced chicken leg quarters (they have the kidneys still on, so they're getting some organ meat, too)
Evening: a hunk of boneless red meat (usually beef or pork)

One of my dogs refuses to eat chicken, so his typical day is like this:
Morning: turkey (sometimes with bones, sometimes without)
Evening: pork or venison (with or without bones, depending on the evening meal) or boneless beef

They also get stuffed kongs in their crates during the day, and training treats (string cheese, dehydrated liver, hot dog pieces, etc.) when we're working on obedience and other fun stuff. When they go in their crates at night to sleep, they each get an Old Mother Hubbard biscuit. My Rottweiler gets the charcoal flavored one since he has a tendency to get pretty darn gassy.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Wow thats really interesting, even the chicken is raw? Im going to research it, maybe Iggy will really benefit from it something has to be wrong. I figured this was never true, but you know the sterotype if you feed your dogs raw meat they will become vicious well thats what I always had in the back of my head I guess lol ( no danger of that since they r already beasts haha.) 

I really hate kibble too, it grosses me out and I always think how terrible it prob is, all the chicken fingernails and such lol.

And also, you give them the bone? I always heard certain bones were terrible for dogs like chicken bones especially splinter and could puncture something?


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Kim201 said:


> Wow thats really interesting, even the chicken is raw? Im going to research it, maybe Iggy will really benefit from it something has to be wrong. I figured this was never true, but you know the sterotype if you feed your dogs raw meat they will become vicious well thats what I always had in the back of my head I guess lol ( no danger of that since they r already beasts haha.)
> 
> I really hate kibble too, it grosses me out and I always think how terrible it prob is, all the chicken fingernails and such lol.
> 
> And also, you give them the bone? I always heard certain bones were terrible for dogs like chicken bones especially splinter and could puncture something?


Everything I feed my dogs is raw. Chicken bones are very dangerous if they are COOKED... that is when they can splinter. Raw chicken bones are pliable and easy for the dogs to crunch up.

Here's a post where I go into more detail about rawfeeding: http://www.dogforums.com/5-dog-food-forum/67059-switch-raw-days-away.html#post701643

And regarding chicken fingernails in kibble... well... thats the least of the worries. Some kibble manufacturers actually used parts of euthanized pets in their foods.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> And regarding chicken fingernails in kibble... well... thats the least of the worries. Some kibble manufacturers actually used parts of euthanized pets in their foods.


That has to be a crock of crap... post a link to THAT bit of info because I just don't believe that one for a minute.


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## nikelodeon79 (Feb 3, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> That has to be a crock of crap... post a link to THAT bit of info because I just don't believe that one for a minute.


http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/ar...ory-Animals-rendered-into-Pet-Food/Page1.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/012647.html
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring04/Perhach/PetFood/Contents.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm
http://ezinearticles.com/?Does-Your-Dog-Food-Include-Euthanized-Dogs?&id=507228
*warning* graphic photo: http://current.com/items/89311033_euthanized-pets-for-use-in-pet-food-its-true.htm
http://vonhapsburg.homestead.com/petfood.html
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/euthanized-pets-dog-food/

Want more?


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

OK... THAT'S just sick...


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Dog_Shrink said:


> OK... THAT'S just sick...


Shrink
Do you remember, or maybe you did not see a movie called "Soylent Green" Dogs, people everybody got to eat.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

I do know soylent green but never watched it or read the book. That is just gross...


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Jan 1, 2010)

Kim201 said:


> Ya...I think we def need that, where can I find out about good trainers though? All the dogs in the dog park are bady behaved as far as I've seen, does anyone live around the Newark, nj area and can recommend one? I want to ship Blanco off to Cesar Millan  that is a site I would love to see. We could def be on dog whisperer our case is so bad!! I don't want a stupid petco trainer I want someone who can handle Blanco, Iggy will be more simple to train. I just need someone to show me the specifics of what to do and I'm sure I can follow it through. Will they teach me about potty training though. Honestly that is my #1 concern. Blanco is not a blood thirsty beast he can be around people and he doesnt have to be around dogs, but Iggy NEEDS to pee and poop outside, the new apartment has rugs...


I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here by any means, this is a huge passion of mine.... a Dog Park is not a place for any dog that even resembles a "Pit Bull". Supervised play dates in the back yard or at a friends house is okay... When you take a bully breed to the dog park it opens all of us other bully breed owners to a world of trouble. Your pup may not start a dog fight, but if he gets put into a position to fight he will, and he will finish it. When you chose to get these dogs with this type of heritage you should have done a little more research to understand the extra responsibility and liability involved. If a dog that even resembles a "pit bull" it will be labeled as such and put on the news and possibly be the one deciding factor to pass BSL in your area.

Potty training... you have to be on your P's and Q's. Everytime they go outside make them touch the door, even if you have to place their paws on the door and make a fool out of yourself talking in baby talk lol. they will understand they hit the jackpot... and your next complaint will be how to get them to stop abusing their power hahaha! Don't scold after the fact, catch them in the act and hurry their behinds outside. Even if they are in mid stream, you bring them to the door, put their paws on the door (scratch) and then take them outside. If they're done by the time you get outside, you snoozed you lost lol. BUT this will start reinforcing that behavior. Be consistant that is the main key to this all. 

Out of the crate, straight outside
depending on how old your dog is 15 mins to an hour after food outside
When you leave for work
when you come home from work
again the feeding in the evening 15 mins to an hour after food outside
before you go to bed

If you free feed... I wouldn't since you have bully type dogs and are very prone to Bloat. If you free water, don't for now until this potty training is under control.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

EW thats really terrible, but I believe it. With all the crap some fast food places, brands, etc. put in our food, I have no doubts the standard would be even lower for animals. I've been reading about it were going to def do it. 

Question, how should I actually give them the food, cut up, a big hunk? I told you how Blanco swallowed the whole bone so I don't know if hed try to swallow a chicken leg, probably. 

I just read your post on the other thread, very helpful. I have to figure out the calculations. Theres this little market and it sells packages of meat for a set price. Theres a few to choose from and it includes a bunch of diff meats and they allow you to switch some if you want so I was thinking that will be good for them. 

Do you ever give your dog fish? I was reading on a site that this woman gives her dogs whole fish once a week.

Also, I really want Iggy to gain some weight so how much should I give him?




Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here by any means, this is a huge passion of mine.... a Dog Park is not a place for any dog that even resembles a "Pit Bull". Supervised play dates in the back yard or at a friends house is okay... When you take a bully breed to the dog park it opens all of us other bully breed owners to a world of trouble. Your pup may not start a dog fight, but if he gets put into a position to fight he will, and he will finish it. When you chose to get these dogs with this type of heritage you should have done a little more research to understand the extra responsibility and liability involved. If a dog that even resembles a "pit bull" it will be labeled as such and put on the news and possibly be the one deciding factor to pass BSL in your area.
> 
> Potty training... you have to be on your P's and Q's. Everytime they go outside make them touch the door, even if you have to place their paws on the door and make a fool out of yourself talking in baby talk lol. they will understand they hit the jackpot... and your next complaint will be how to get them to stop abusing their power hahaha! Don't scold after the fact, catch them in the act and hurry their behinds outside. Even if they are in mid stream, you bring them to the door, put their paws on the door (scratch) and then take them outside. If they're done by the time you get outside, you snoozed you lost lol. BUT this will start reinforcing that behavior. Be consistant that is the main key to this all.
> 
> ...


No I agree with you about the pit bull dog park thing because Blanco could easily kill a dog. He is really built for war. I mean how does a dog have a doberman twice his size on TOP of his back and he has not one scratch, but the other dog is bleeding. Even if he play mouths ( which im working on stopping he almost never does it now) he hurts like hell and hes not trying to hurt me at all.

Thats a good idea with the door, I'll def do that. Should I give him a treat after he touches the door, or the treat is just outside? No I don't free feed, I can't because they eat all their food in 5 seconds. Yea Iggy bloats so much! Even if he drinks a full bowl of water his belly is preggers lol, but we restrict his water and he still pees so much.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

The bloat indigo was referring to is gastric torsion not just a bloated full belly.


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## SupaSweet777 (Aug 22, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/
> http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/ar...ory-Animals-rendered-into-Pet-Food/Page1.html
> http://www.naturalnews.com/012647.html
> http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring04/Perhach/PetFood/Contents.htm
> ...



I feed my pup raw because of allergy issues. I am scared to even click onthose link so I am just gonna ignore them. I don't want to be mortified for life.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Jan 1, 2010)

Kim201 said:


> EW thats really terrible, but I believe it. With all the crap some fast food places, brands, etc. put in our food, I have no doubts the standard would be even lower for animals. I've been reading about it were going to def do it.
> 
> Question, how should I actually give them the food, cut up, a big hunk? I told you how Blanco swallowed the whole bone so I don't know if hed try to swallow a chicken leg, probably.
> 
> ...


If your dog doesn't take his time to chew bones, bone meal can be a good substitute for the nutrition in them. You can offer a larger dog larger bones than chicken bones like a large beef rib. Or if you feel very generous they'll love a leg of lamb! I give the dogs a whole chicken quarter at a time, it's too big for them to swallow whole, and forces them to take their time. The key about bones are to take them away when they've gotten widdled down so they don't swallow them and cause a costly blockage.





Kim201 said:


> No I agree with you about the pit bull dog park thing because Blanco could easily kill a dog. He is really built for war. I mean how does a dog have a doberman twice his size on TOP of his back and he has not one scratch, but the other dog is bleeding. Even if he play mouths ( which im working on stopping he almost never does it now) he hurts like hell and hes not trying to hurt me at all.
> 
> Thats a good idea with the door, I'll def do that. Should I give him a treat after he touches the door, or the treat is just outside? No I don't free feed, I can't because they eat all their food in 5 seconds. Yea Iggy bloats so much! Even if he drinks a full bowl of water his belly is preggers lol, but we restrict his water and he still pees so much.


I personally praise the heck out of them when they touch the door. Just like you've won the lottery lol. If you like using treats as a reward I would reward with a treat after he goes potty outside.

On a side note, I do have one of my dogs (Cree) who is a sissy boy and doesn't like to touch ANYTHING with his paws lol, so what I've done was hang a small door chime on my handle and he nuzzles it with his nose. He's the only dweeb in the house who uses the chimes.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

nikelodeon79 said:


> http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/
> http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/ar...ory-Animals-rendered-into-Pet-Food/Page1.html
> http://www.naturalnews.com/012647.html
> http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring04/Perhach/PetFood/Contents.htm
> ...






Geez, I'm so glad I switched to Innova - no "generic meats" in there. 

Wow...and to think it's LEGAL to do this. Unbelievable. If this was food humans were eating, we'd be up in arms - but dogs - eh, it's okay. Insane.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I personally praise the heck out of them when they touch the door. Just like you've won the lottery lol. If you like using treats as a reward I would reward with a treat after he goes potty outside.
> 
> On a side note, I do have one of my dogs (Cree) who is a sissy boy and doesn't like to touch ANYTHING with his paws lol, so what I've done was hang a small door chime on my handle and he nuzzles it with his nose. He's the only dweeb in the house who uses the chimes.



Haha thats so cute! Ya Iggy is a jumper, he can jump SO high and he tries to jump on us and other things ( loves to jump in the kitchen sink, counter, bed, on top of his cage, etc.) but of course I was trying to do the door thing and he wouldn't do it. If I pat my lap or the bed he will usually put his front paws on me or the bed because he knows we don't want him to jump, I tried to do that to the door but he didn't get it. I just put his paw on and let go so he could kinda slide down, hopefully he'll realize soon. Blanco just does little ballerina spins by the door if he needs to go out so hes good lol.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Just fed the dogs their first raw meal of chicken leg quarters ( 1 each) with the skin cut off and they LOVED it. They both gobbled it down and basically swallowed it whole in a few crunches so they will prob throw it up.

I calculated it and Iggy weighs about 23lbs but we want him to weigh 30 so thats 1 lb, right?

Blanco gets 2 lbs hes 67lbs.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Wow iggy is WAAAAAY lean... how old is he and is 23 an accurate weight? he easily needs to put on at least 10 pounds to suit that frame. Also why would you take the skin offa raw feeding... isn't that where all the omega fatty acids come from?

If iggy doesn't start gaining weight soon I'd be worried that he had a malabsorbtion issue. How much kibble were you feeding him per feeding? Being able to see every point of his spine and ribs he would almost grade emaciated on the fattness scale.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Kim201 said:


> Just fed the dogs their first raw meal of chicken leg quarters ( 1 each) with the skin cut off and they LOVED it. They both gobbled it down and basically swallowed it whole in a few crunches so they will prob throw it up.
> 
> I calculated it and Iggy weighs about 23lbs but we want him to weigh 30 so thats 1 lb, right?
> 
> Blanco gets 2 lbs hes 67lbs.


Iggy needs 3% of his body weight to gain weight...1% for weight loss...2% to maintain weight & 3% for weight gain...I would leave the skin on as it has much to offer also.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

We were feeding him 2 cups. Ya last time we were at vet they said 23lbs and he doesn't look like he gained to me. We feed him treats too I mean I know that doesn't add up to much ( cold cuts, carrots, banana, pieces of food, etc.)

He is 1 year and 3 months so I think he should be at his adult weight, but maybe he still has time to grow. I don't know he hasn't really grown or gained much weight since 8 or 9 months. Well If I do 35lbs ( his ideal weight) X 3% it equals 1.05 is that enough? It doesn't sound so much the chicken we gave him was only 1lb so maybe 1.5 lbs is good for him?
Also Iggys belly is sensitive so that is why I left the skin off,and I read when the dogs are adjusting some people do it but I'll leave it on next time.

I think there is something wrong with him too. I was saying in a previous post my mom thinks he has celiac disease, the allergy to gluten, but maybe it is just to all grain or liek you said some type of malabsorption issue. His poops tend to be sometimes hard, sometimes mushy, 50/50 I guess I would say and he gets borderline diarrhea not very often, but more than a normal dog would get it. Thats why I am hoping raw food will help maybe he was allergic to the kibble.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Ooops!...Looks like I did not remember my raw feeding percentages correctly...Here is a raw feeding calculator to help you figure out how much raw feed your dogs need:
http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Well, if I make it 4% it equals out to 1.4lb so I think Im going to feed him 1.5


Ok, second meal, with skin. It was easy for Blanco, but he did eat slower which I am happy about, he basically seperated the leg from the thigh and then ate them chewing a lot more. 

Iggy on the other hand. I kinda got a problem. Well, I fed him in his cage and Blanco in the kitchen. Iggy tends to be more possessive with food in his cage, but I was doing it for mess purposes and I didn't want to feed them both in the kitchen because Iggy is bad with food ( with Blanco, us he is fine) and I didn't know how possessive he would be. Well he was terrible in his cage. He took long to eat it and the skin was getting stuck, like he was choking a bit a string of skin with down his throat but still attached to the chicken outside if that makes sense. Anyways he was just eating, no one is caring about him, Blanco is done and laying down by us and he is going to town growling and making all this "num num crunch" gremlin noises, basically like hes telling us, don't even think about taking this. So I go by his cage and he starts barking at me and of course trying to gobble the chicken fast as hell, so of course I stay till he stops. He was acting so stupid and if I needed to help him I would of had to rip him out of his cage ( because he holds on if he doesn't want to get out), so no more cage. Anyway, is this anything to worry about. I know he thinks we are going to take it away from him, once he tried to eat a dead bird and he put the whole thing in his mouth ready to swallow it and I pulled the sides back and he spit it out thank god, if I go close to him he tries to chomp down the whole damn chicken leg. So is this nothing to worry about or should I start hand feeding him because I don't want him to start having food aggression with us.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Jan 1, 2010)

Personally, I would hand feed him... I don't feed my dogs together, i don't have a reason for my dogs to eat together, but I DO need to be able to take things away from my dogs that can cause them harm. He's being dominant towards you.

Also, you should claim that crate as YOURS not his. Just for safety precautions. God forbid you have to hire a dog sitter if you go out of town for example.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Iggy is practically emaciated in my book so it's not unusual for a starved dog to act aggressive with food esp. a high value item like raw chicken. Maybe try cutting it into pieces and offering the skin seperately cut up so he doesn't have issues with it. Feed in a seperate room by hand and not in his crate so that he gets use to the idea of food is not something I can guard over and is a gift not a right.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Iggy is practically emaciated in my book so it's not unusual for a starved dog to act aggressive with food esp. a high value item like raw chicken. Maybe try cutting it into pieces and offering the skin seperately cut up so he doesn't have issues with it. Feed in a seperate room by hand and not in his crate so that he gets use to the idea of food is not something I can guard over and is a gift not a right.


Lol we don't starve him like I said we feed him 2 cups usually and Blanco who is 45lbs heavier only gets 3. Ya no more crate. I just don't want him to start acting that way because maybe it will stop, but I don't know. But he does eat way faster when I hand feed him and it is very hard for me to cut it up.



Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Personally, I would hand feed him... I don't feed my dogs together, i don't have a reason for my dogs to eat together, but I DO need to be able to take things away from my dogs that can cause them harm. He's being dominant towards you.
> 
> Also, you should claim that crate as YOURS not his. Just for safety precautions. God forbid you have to hire a dog sitter if you go out of town for example.


Well he doesn't act like that with his crate any other time only when we feed him in it. He has never showed any aggression with the crate being "his" prob because he would MUCH rather be with us than in his crate anyway.

You don't feed your dogs together as in the same time or the same room? Ya I can usually get things out of his mouth fairly easy but if it is something he REALLY wants to eat ( like a dead bird or the chicken) he doesn't try to bite or snap but he tries to scarf it down a quick as possible and if I stuck my finger in he prob wouldn't realize and chomp down by accident. 

The other day I was hand feeding him and he snatched the chicken away so hard that I didn't want him to take it that way so I kept holding on and he didn't try to bite me but he just wouldn't let it go, but I did finally get it. Maybe I should try to teach the drop it command or leave it?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Kim201 said:


> The other day I was hand feeding him and he snatched the chicken away so hard that I didn't want him to take it that way so I kept holding on and he didn't try to bite me but he just wouldn't let it go, but I did finally get it. Maybe I should try to teach the drop it command or leave it?


a command like drop it or leave it would be perfect for things like this. i taught frag both (drop it for toys and leave it for dead things, food, etc) and he listens perfectly, and it makes things so much easier than having to pick up food or figh him for a toy, etc, and if your dog gets it well enough, you should have no problem taking chicken away from him.


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

Im having a few problems with my raw feeding Im going to make a thread about it.. please reply anyone with helpful info


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## jamestown (Jan 8, 2010)

I am a pet trainer from petsmart, really would love to help out, i am running late for work so i did not get to read it all. but could help out with what i have read so far. i live in athen al and work in huntsville al. if you are in this area drop by petsmart and see me my name is james townsend. or i will hit you back up on this page...
 hope we can fix this for you, i know its hard and it hurts to know the dog has no control over human ways....




Kim201 said:


> PLEASE HELP! Me and my boyfriend have SO many problems with our dogs. I posted a long time ago talking about my little pit bull Iggy. Some people were hell bent on telling me he would be agressive, but ironically the other one, Blanco, chow and bully mix is now aggressive, he tried to bite two people, and if a dog plays with him, forget it, he instantly fights. He is so strong too.
> 
> Iggy is still not potty trained, he is crate trained a bit, but not at all house trained. He has insane seperation anxiety. I feel like I am such a bad person, I love them so much but I feel so unhappy. I want to fix this.
> 
> ...


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## DeniseV (Nov 8, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Iggy is practically emaciated in my book so it's not unusual for a starved dog to act aggressive with food esp. a high value item like raw chicken. Maybe try cutting it into pieces and offering the skin seperately cut up so he doesn't have issues with it. Feed in a seperate room by hand and not in his crate so that he gets use to the idea of food is not something I can guard over and is a gift not a right.


to the OP, I'm sorry hon, Ibut I have to agree with Dog Shrink.

Iggy is waaaay to thin. She is borderline, and very close to emaciated.

I have a 5 month old PUG and she weighs almost 16 lbs. And she is a toy breed! And a baby!

For Iggy, being an over year old pit to weigh 23 lbs, is concerning.

A trip to the vet is needed, hon. Rule out parasites, worms, other illness. Something isn't right here.

I am not trying to be harsh. It is clear you care for your dogs, hence why you are here trying to get help. But trust me....that pit is skinny. Too skinny.

If she is eating alright, something medically must be wrong. Please have her looked at by your vet.

Hnag in there, sweetie. Again, no harshness implied by me. I just saw the pics and gasped. She is so thin!

Best of luck, hon. You have your hands full. One pit is a lot of work, patience, knowlege and understanding. But 2 pits, both with different aggressions and issues? Wow. I give you credit for doing whatever it takes.

This breed is so misunderstood....they are great dogs if raised right. But now is the time to get things in control. 

Best of luck,
Denise


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## Kim201 (Jan 30, 2009)

DeniseV said:


> to the OP, I'm sorry hon, Ibut I have to agree with Dog Shrink.
> 
> Iggy is waaaay to thin. She is borderline, and very close to emaciated.
> 
> ...


No I def agree there is something wrong, he's a boy hehe, but I think something is wrong where he is prob not absorbing nutrients in the food. We've been to the vet and checked his poop and everything, but they just keep saying hes fine. Yes, we are def going back to the vet soon, because he needs to get neautered, but he only has one ball so he needs a bigger operation so I want to make sure everything is in check before we do that. I am actually hoping it is some type of allergy and we are going to switch them to raw feeding so I hope it will benefit Iggy especially. He is def always hungry and always willing to eat, but honestly we thought he would just eventually fill out since he is still young but it is not happening so we are scared now. They are difficult sometimes, but wonderful at other times so it is something I hope to get under control very soon.


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