# blue eyes and deafness..



## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

Please all keep in mind, we all have different breeds, and not all breeds will a blue eye show up deafness.. And that is the source of my question here.. 
In aussies, danes etc ( several others) a blue eye can be also link to deafness. Trying to deterime if its a color link gene, or other indicators that might show why deafness occurs. Some breeds like huskies, or crested a blue eye does not mean the dog might be deaf.. 
Why blue eye? Or is it going back to the breed that a blue eye is associated with deafness? While all " blue eyed" danes for example are not deaf, I was just wondering. 
I got on this in the morning. It started with looking for if blue eyed borzois, a fault in the breed and hardly aparent, is it the same as other blue eyed breeds. In my breed the eye is dark. What few blue eyed dogs deafness doesnt show up. 
So why is it some breeds if a blue eye is present can be linked with deafness, and in other breeds it isn't? Does anyone know?


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## French Ring (Mar 29, 2008)

One thing I know about blue eyes are that they are considered recessive genes. My parents, sisters, and I have blue eyes and we all need glasses. 

It is pretty often to see dogs and cats with blue eyes and have white fur become deaf. I'm not a geneticist, sorry I can't be much of help.


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

I am trying to figure out why in some breeds a blue eye is linked with deafness, and in other breeds its not.. I mean also- wouldnt you think if a blue eye could mean deafness in a dog, why would someone breed a blue eyed dog of certain breeds knowing it could be a link with deafness??? Like huskies have blue eye all the time- deafness is highly rare. .. 
I may not get my answers but at least I am trying to understand it.. And if its noted as a recessive gene, why the encouragement to get a recessive gene? Maybe I am a dim- wit here, but breeding for a recessive trait ( and you are right- it is) is no different to me than looking for another recessive trait.. 
I spent all day on this.. ( yea I know- too much time on my hands) and all I got was back to the same question- why is blue eye not a problem or linked to deafness in some breeds, and not in others?


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

I don't know too much about this, but in aussies, shelties, danes, etc (breeds that have merle), it's because both blue eyes and deafness are linked to the merle gene, however you can have a single merle gene and have a blue eyed dog with normal hearing (Frosty), it's double merles that _may_ be deaf and _may_ also have blue eyes.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Merle can be a big factor. Double merle aussies and danes will have light blue eyes (or sometimes no eyes/deformed eyes). Double merles will often be blind or deaf.


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

sheltiemom said:


> I don't know too much about this, but in aussies, shelties, danes, etc (breeds that have merle), it's because both blue eyes and deafness are linked to the merle gene, however you can have a single merle gene and have a blue eyed dog with normal hearing (Frosty), it's double merles that _may_ be deaf and _may_ also have blue eyes.


 Oh thats good- wait a minute now- back up.. So its coming in linked with the merle gene? Even if the dog isnt a merle color ( not confusing the lethal whites of collies here for a second..) = if linked to merle color, I found dogs still not a merle color ( hmm couild be carrying the gene for it though) still showed incidence of deafness. Right?


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## zannie (Mar 12, 2008)

i think for some its a genetic defect and its not just the blue eyes but the defect its self,,i have a albino doberman with very lite blue eyes he can hear just fine, he can see but bright light bothers him so we need to becareful on how long he's in the sun light


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

Laurelin said:


> Merle can be a big factor. Double merle aussies and danes will have light blue eyes (or sometimes no eyes/deformed eyes). Double merles will often be blind or deaf.


 Oh I totally understand that one. Its called the lethal white to white or merle to white factored gene in collies.. And they are a pityful sight to see with literally no eyes at all..
Okay- so we know huskies do not have a merle gene.. Probably why the deafness does not occur... Borzois are not merle either ( not like the other breeds that are merle.. ) hmmm.


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

borzoimom said:


> Blue eyes and deafness...
> 
> Is every ladies dream combination! Too bad it's so rare!


Why, what a coincidence, Borzoimom. I have blue eyes and I'm deaf!


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

Sort of tangential here but, don't Dalmations have a high incidence of deafness?


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

RBark said:


> Why, what a coincidence, Borzoimom. I have blue eyes and I'm deaf!


 Uh confused..  I did not say " every womans dream.." lol..



Rowdy said:


> Sort of tangential here but, don't Dalmations have a high incidence of deafness?


 Yes they do- again- why??? Any ideas? Only thing I can think of is that this breed changes color ( ie mutation color link gene) after birth... Maybe that is why?


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## RBark (Sep 10, 2007)

borzoimom said:


> Uh confused..  I did not say " every womans dream.." lol..
> 
> 
> Yes they do- again- why??? Any ideas? Only thing I can think of is that this breed changes color ( ie mutation color link gene) after birth... Maybe that is why?


I was playing a prank on you. I just changed your quote 

But I have no idea what the similarity is in dogs. In humans there's a high correlation between meningitis and blue eyes (by the way, I have blue eyes and I had spinal meningitis.)

I don't know if that's the case for dogs.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

borzoimom said:


> Oh thats good- wait a minute now- back up.. So its coming in linked with the merle gene? Even if the dog isnt a merle color ( not confusing the lethal whites of collies here for a second..) = if linked to merle color, I found dogs still not a merle color ( hmm couild be carrying the gene for it though) still showed incidence of deafness. Right?


I'll have to stay with shelties here because that's the only breed I know for sure about, but if a dog has the merle gene it's going to have the merle color also. The exception to that is cryptic merles, where the spot of merling is so small it is not generally noticed or sable merles where the merling fades sometimes in adulthood. If a sheltie has blue eyes though, it is always a merle, but a merle sheltie doesn't have to always have blue eyes. Lethal whites in collies and shelties are the product of a merle/merle breeding that produces a mostly white dog, that is also likely to have a hearing/vision impairment. It just happens that these dogs may also have blue eyes. A merle dog with blue eyes should have no issues when bred to a non merle.

So yeah, the deafness is linked to the merle gene, not to blue eyes. In BC's it's really complicated b/c you have dogs with the merle gene, but also dogs that have blue eyes without the merle gene and there is no link to deafness with those.


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

sheltiemom said:


> I'll have to stay with shelties here because that's the only breed I know for sure about, but if a dog has the merle gene it's going to have the merle color also. The exception to that is cryptic merles, where the spot of merling is so small it is not generally noticed or sable merles where the merling fades sometimes in adulthood. If a sheltie has blue eyes though, it is always a merle, but a merle sheltie doesn't have to always have blue eyes. Lethal whites in collies and shelties are the product of a merle/merle breeding that produces a mostly white dog, that is also likely to have a hearing/vision impairment. It just happens that these dogs may also have blue eyes. A merle dog with blue eyes should have no issues when bred to a non merle.


 Interesting. See I had a white collie- she was all white except for her head and that was merle. As beautiful as she was, I never bred her because I was afraid of the merle link gene. She came out of a white factored tri, bred to a white factored sable. Being white factored on both sides, I knew about the lethel whites or worried enough that even if one pup, it was not worth the risk. 
Its amazing to me that shelties are not related to collies but end up with the same condition 



RBark said:


> I was playing a prank on you. I just changed your quote
> 
> But I have no idea what the similarity is in dogs. In humans there's a high correlation between meningitis and blue eyes (by the way, I have blue eyes and I had spinal meningitis.)
> 
> I don't know if that's the case for dogs.


 Interesting- my sister in law is blue eyed and has the same condition. My mother is blue eyed and doesnt.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

borzoimom said:


> Interesting. See I had a white collie- she was all white except for her head and that was merle. As beautiful as she was, I never bred her because I was afraid of the merle link gene. She came out of a white factored tri, bred to a white factored sable. Being white factored on both sides, I knew about the lethel whites or worried enough that even if one pup, it was not worth the risk.
> Tell me- are the shelties the same in whites?


That's different, in shelties and collies you also have color headed whites that have mostly white bodies, and, well, a colored head, and those are the product of two white factored dogs. They have no link to health issues or deafness, but you can also have a color headed white merle, which it sounds like you had, and that dog should be fine as long as it's not bred to another merle. Also, since your dog had a merle head, one of it's parents had to be a cryptic merle, likely the sable since it's hard to tell on those. The blue eyes is linked to the merle, not the white factoring. Also, lethal whites (double merles) will have white around the eyes and ears, which CHW's will not.

Oh, and collies were bred into shelties not too terribly long ago to try to set coat type, prolly where the merle gene came from in shelties....don't quote me on that though, lol.


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

Agreed and I had that in Chrystalist. ( charlie_ dont ask.. ) lol.. 
Sorry I modified my post from the original. I realized I had typed the same thing twice..


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## micki (Jan 11, 2008)

I had a deaf blue eyed red merle aussie from an accidental merle to merle breeding. 12 pups 4 born white deaf and blind,3 tris,4 black/white and our pup born deaf very light just a touch of color which darkened as he grew.
Only thing I can add is his sire had blue eyes and wasn't deaf.
With so many breeds adding the merle color, chis, poms, dachs I feel it is a bomb waiting to go off in uneducated breeders hands since so may people love the merle colors


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## borzoimom (May 21, 2007)

micki said:


> I had a deaf blue eyed red merle aussie from an accidental merle to merle breeding. 12 pups 4 born white deaf and blind,3 tris,4 black/white and our pup born deaf very light just a touch of color which darkened as he grew.
> Only thing I can add is his sire had blue eyes and wasn't deaf.
> With so many breeds adding the merle color, chis, poms, dachs I feel it is a bomb waiting to go off in uneducated breeders hands since so may people love the merle colors


 Exactly micki- a bomb is right! Breeding is alot more complicated than people realize.


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