# Pic of Baby Oliver...and question!



## LilOllie (Jun 2, 2009)

Here is a picture of Oliver at about 8 weeks with my breeders daughter. Does anyone know when papillons ears start sticking up? His ears are still really floppy and don't seem like they are going to stand up at all. I don't think he is a phalene...because that's not really common and both his parents ears stand tall.


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## killbride (Apr 16, 2009)

I don't think he is a phalene...because that's not really common and both his parents ears stand tall. 

It's genetic. All the parents have to do is both be carriers of the gene and you can get a phalene's


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

killbride said:


> I don't think he is a phalene...because that's not really common and both his parents ears stand tall.
> 
> It's genetic. All the parents have to do is both be carriers of the gene and you can get a phalene's


Does phalene mean that the ears droop down? I personally like the droopy ears papillons more than the ears up ones.


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## LilOllie (Jun 2, 2009)

Bonn1997 said:


> Does phalene mean that the ears droop down? I personally like the droopy ears papillons more than the ears up ones.


Yes phalene is with the droopy ears. I personally love both the phalene and papillon... I was just curious if at his age anyone could tell. He will be adorable either way to me though


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## ladyshadowhollyjc (Oct 28, 2008)

My paps had their ears up at 12 weeks. J.C.'s ears went up and down a lot, especially during teething. But at about 6 months if the ears are up, they should stay up.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

At 4 months ours were definitely up. Your pup looks pretty big, boroad and chunky, for 8 weeks. I'm wondering if the breeder feels he may not meet breed standards and that is why she sold him. Are the parents AKC registered and at least one of them titled? Did you see the parents?

We have two papillons who are littermates and you would never guess it. The first one we got at 4 months old because she was "broad across the beam", heavy (10 pounds when I watch her diet closely) and too tall for the breed. Cally is mostly black and white but considered tri-colored because she has brown points above her eyes and on her cheeks. The second one we got after she finished a show career and whelped a few litters. She is small (3 pounds less)and petite, red and white, totally different than her "Helga-shaped" sister. Their parents were both AKC titled and beautiful dogs. So you can get some "out of range" pups from the best of breeding stock. And we don't love Cally any less, she has been a great agility and obedience dog for my daughter in 4H.

Papillon = butterfly in French with upright ears like a butterfly's wings, and the white stripe down the nose is supposed to represent the body of the butterfly.

Phalene = moth in French, since they fold their wings down, they usually still have the white stripe down the nose unless mis-marked.


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

LilOllie said:


> Yes phalene is with the droopy ears. I personally love both the phalene and papillon... I was just curious if at his age anyone could tell. He will be adorable either way to me though


Oh yeah, they are precious and adorable either way. It's just a personal preference of mine.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

About that age Bernard had a floppy ear. It took until about 12 weeks before his finally went up for the first time. He went a few weeks with one ear up and one ear down. Generally if the ears go up at all as a pup, the dog is a papillon, not a phalene and by the time he's done teething they should settle. Bernard's ears even now are much softer than the other dogs'. The ear leather is not nearly as stiff (which is a fault) and they tend to turn inside out a lot more. When he gets his ears wet, they will droop. There are also more earsets for papillons than just erect ears and dropped ears. None are correct but the term is a 'weak eared' dog for a dog with one ear up and one down or a dog with semi-erect ears. All that means is the dogs are not showable or breeding quality. I've known several dogs with confused ears. 

Here's a couple (from google):



















Do you know if phalenes are in the bloodline? I knew it was a possibility with Bernard as he has a phalene granparent on one side and a great grandparent on the other.

I am very partial to the papillon variety but one day I want a nice phalene. You just don't see many of them around.


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