# Reintroducing dogs after a fight...



## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

I posted last week that Bandit and Jasper got into a major fight last week that sent both of them to the vet... I'm starting to think about the best way to get them reintroduced, although I want to make perfectly clear that I'm not even CLOSE to being ready to try it yet. I just want to start gathering some info since I have no experience in this area at all.

I have a feeling there is going to be "bad blood" between them now, so it won't be as easy as an initial introduction period, right? (Even that was rocky for Bandit and Jazz.) Honestly, I don't expect to turn them out loose together anymore. It won't be hard to keep them seperated and rotated into the fenced yard to play, but they will have to see one another through the fence due to the way my kennel and play yard is set up. I'd just like to get them to the point where they can see one another and not freak out... no fence-fighting or anything like that. 

At least, that's my goal for now. Any advice, training suggestions, or personal experience would be great. I guess I'm just casually throwing this out there so I can start mulling over all the ideas in the coming weeks.

Thanks everyone...


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## mightymal (Sep 23, 2009)

You will need someone to help you, a strong, sturdy collar and leash on each dog, and some high value treats. (And what kind of dogs are they?)

Take the dogs out in an open space, preferably the front yard or back yard if the fight did not occur there. Do NOT do this in the house if at all possible. You take one dog and have your helper take the other. Start on opposite sides of the yard from each other, asking basic obedience skills of the dogs - sit, down, heel. You want the dogs to be very focused on their handlers and just remotely aware that the other dog is present. And you want it to be a VERY positive experience for both dogs. 

When the dogs are paying attention to their respective handlers and performing their commands, move a few feet closer to each other (you may still be 30 feet apart at this time and that's fine). Repeat the exercises. If either dog fixates on the other or becomes too over-stimulated to pay attention to his handler, back up a few feet until you can get the dog's attention again. Praise and treats when the dogs behave and/or politely acknowledge the other dog's presence. 

The idea is that in the end, you can work the dogs next to each other without them being intent on killing each other or even being bothered by the other dog's presence. You want each dog to think that when they see the other dog = good things happen, AKA treats and praise. You need them to re-associate a behavior/attitude with the other dog, replacing aggression with eagerness to please. 

My two malinois bitches almost killed each other last year, or rather, the instigator almost got herself killed by my bigger female. Our intro process was slow and steady over the course of a day, but to be honest, I rushed it more than I should have because I'm used to dealing with these type of behavior problems. Many dogs can take days to be reintroduced; also, keep in mind that as you have stated, you will have to change the way they live: no running around the yard together, no high value toys left out, and make sure food bowls are picked up so that there is nothing for either dog to start a fight over. I still have to manage my dogs' environment very carefully to make sure that I don't give them a reason to squabble, but it can be done. 

Hope this helped - good luck!


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## Foyerhawk (May 7, 2009)

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this!

I personally would rehome one. I don't have the facilities or the desire to keep two dogs that would fight, and I have a child and other dogs who could be injured in the fray.

I wish you all the best- it's so sad and scary!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm just throwing this out here. I would think of starting this program in a completely strange/neutral place off your property. This way neither dog draws strength from home territory and also gives dogs something else to think about. 

I would even like to see these dogs in a kennel run setup not next to each other but a kennel run or 2 seperating them but they can view each other. This also in a neutral place. This might help you in reading of the 2 dogs.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Thanks for all the great info so far. It's already been very helpful in understanding the prepwork that will need to be in place before I start this (i.e., recruiting a qualified helper that my dogs already know/that is good with dogs, finding a suitable location to start the reintroduction, having my helper practice obedience commands with one of my dogs so that he will respond to the handler).



> I personally would rehome one. I don't have the facilities or the desire to keep two dogs that would fight, and I have a child and other dogs who could be injured in the fray.


I've considered this option too. I'm not completely ruling it out, but it will be a last resort only. I do have the facilities to keep them seperated (rather, I'm working on it - putting in new kennel runs). I also have no children, so that's not a concern for me. I'm the sole handler for the dogs at my household, and I do have several experienced friends who could handle them if I was out of town.

Mightymal, all your advice was incredibly helpful, very clear and easy to follow. Thank you so much! Bandit is a Husky/Shepherd mix and Jasper is a Malamute/wolf mix (the honest truth). My other thread has more details on their fight. I believe that Jasper probably instigated it by guarding an empty food bowl that somehow got kicked into the fenceline... but usually Jasper just snarls and that's it, but I think Bandit took it seriously, because by the time I saw what was happening, he definitely appeared to be the aggressor and Jasper was on the defensive.



> My two malinois bitches almost killed each other last year, or rather, the instigator almost got herself killed by my bigger female. Our intro process was slow and steady over the course of a day, but to be honest, I rushed it more than I should have because I'm used to dealing with these type of behavior problems. [...] I still have to manage my dogs' environment very carefully to make sure that I don't give them a reason to squabble, but it can be done.


This is so encouraging for me. Thanks for posting your experiences! It's great to know that it can be done with time and patience.



> also, keep in mind that as you have stated, you will have to change the way they live: no running around the yard together, no high value toys left out, and make sure food bowls are picked up so that there is nothing for either dog to start a fight over.


I already keep toys and food picked up because I know that two of the dogs here are resource-guarders: Jazz, one of the dogs who fought, and Loki, who is a foster and wasn't involved in the fight. I've been working on that issue with both of them but I've really stepped up my training program with Jazz now. If the reintroduction goes well, I'm going to consider putting Jasper through the program again (crated) with Bandit as the approacher instead of myself. (I'm using Jean Donaldson's book "Mine!" as the training program I'm using. Already seeing great results with the dogs.)



> I'm just throwing this out here. I would think of starting this program in a completely strange/neutral place off your property. This way neither dog draws strength from home territory and also gives dogs something else to think about.


Wvasko, this is excellent advice. I'm going to start scouting out good, quiet places where I can do this... I live in a wildlife reserve so there's got to be a nice, quiet meadow somewhere within quick driving distance.



> I would even like to see these dogs in a kennel run setup not next to each other but a kennel run or 2 seperating them but they can view each other. This also in a neutral place. This might help you in reading of the 2 dogs.


This is my plan exactly. Right now, I have one kennel (16' x 16') and the fenced yard, plus the dogs get time in my house too. This means that in the past I've had dogs "double up" in the kennel and yard. No longer. By the years' end, I'm going to build a new kennel pavilion with seperate runs for each dog, and wood plank going halfway up the wall between each one so that they can eat and chew a bone in peace without seeing the dog next door. This building will be adjacent to the fenced yard so that the dogs can easily be turned out to play in groups... Bandit and Jasper won't have to be out together. But there will be times when Jasper will have to watch Bandit running around the yard, and vice-versa... I want them to be able to do that without snarling at the fence the whole time. 

If I could get that, I'd be happy and the situation would be manageable, and I could take things from there. If I just can't achieve that level of tolerance between the dogs, one of them will need to be rehomed, and that would just about kill me.

EDIT: I just noticed you said "in a neutral place". Are you thinking something like, taking them to a boarding kennel or something, to see how they do viewing one another? Could you elaborate?


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Yes if you know somebody that would allow that or a boarding kennel, as taking each dog in seperately and kennel a couple kennels away from each other just to see reaction. If this is not something that can be done easily the meadow out in country idea is fine. Sometimes I forget there may not be a facility handy to do this. I just thought if both dogs brought in seperately and viewed each other you might be able to see just what kind of reaction there is before anything else is done.
Let's just say they see each other and fire up immediately you are forewarned. There may be no bad reaction at all which still may not be good as they may be a little devious. The same could be accomplished with a walk by in meadow. I had a pair of dogs in training that got a long good with all other dogs but had been in fights with each other and always would always fire up.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Wvasko has it good.


what i do is what i call the crazy walk. i get someone and we plot out a route of a walk where the glimpses the dogs get of each other get closer and closer together as the walk progresses. reward for calm, decrease proximity to threshold and start over if a spazz attack occurs. repeat for a few weeks and then attempt a brief intro on neutral ground. keep cycling through this increasing the amount of contact and the duration of the intros until you are comfortable there is no guarded body language.

i would suggest no co offleash time for at least a month or two. 

also for your situation i would work on barrier desensitization. vary the above progam to incorporate fences and barriers.


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## Thracian (Dec 24, 2008)

I don't have experience with this but I wish you all the best. Hope you can work it out.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Lloyd and Nash got into 2 fights at first, one mild, the other resulted in several punctures in both of them. Now they can be loose together as long as there are no toys. They even play together (again no toys). I even leave them together in the pen semi unatteneded (I can see them from a window) and they just hang out and play.

I did a very, very strict NILIF with them to make it very clear that nothing belongs to them, at all, ever. I did a lot of counter conditioning, where Julie had one dog, I had the other and we did tons of mark/reward for looking at each other. We did this in every room of the house, in the yard, in the pen, on walks. Started at a distance (like across the room) and worked closer slowly, by a step at a time. 

Long walks together was another thing we did. First at a distance, where julie and one dog were on one side of the road, I had the other dog on the other side. We slowly got them closer together until they were walking side by side. They got treats for glancing at each other without reacting "Hunting" together is a big way dogs bond. 

One thing you can do is CAT for dogs (constructional aggression treatement for dogs). One member on here used this to introduce new dogs to his cattle dog who could be dog aggressive/reactive. Who ever is the dog that has the issue with the other (like if is bandit that doesn't like jasper) is the one who would sit still and you would have the other dog being walked up to a point, wait for the signals you want from bandit, and then turn around with jasper and walk away.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

This is just me....

But I would do a few things.

1) I would spend some time re enforcing Nothing in Life is Free with both dogs. Putting yourself in a very strong position of authority with both dogs.

2)If you have never worked with dogs that are likely to show aggression to each other, I would find some help from someone that has. This forum is great and there is a lot of great advice on this thread. But if you have never dealt with aggression issues, you might miss something and things can happen VERY fast. Plus you seemed rattled by the incident. (that is not a knock on you, just an observation) The handlers demeanor and ability to control the situation plays a big role. 

3) When you do make the introduction ( I like others would do it on leash) wear the heck out of the dogs first. I would want them dead tired.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Another thing I just thought of. Work a very, very strong DOWN! on your dogs. They need to be able to do it when a rabbit runs a foot in front of their nose. This can come in very handy if something starts you can yell DOWN! Once they are really engaged it won't work but if you see it starting it can stop a fight quick.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Wow, you guys are all being SO incredibly helpful... gosh I feel so encouraged. I had always believed that a fight where blood was drawn was pretty much "it" for the dogs being able to coexist. All these tips and personal stories are really helpful. Can't thank you all enough...



> what i do is what i call the crazy walk. i get someone and we plot out a route of a walk where the glimpses the dogs get of each other get closer and closer together as the walk progresses. reward for calm, decrease proximity to threshold and start over if a spazz attack occurs. repeat for a few weeks and then attempt a brief intro on neutral ground. keep cycling through this increasing the amount of contact and the duration of the intros until you are comfortable there is no guarded body language.


Sounds like a good way to start, Zim...



> also for your situation i would work on barrier desensitization. vary the above progam to incorporate fences and barriers.


THANK YOU, this is an awesome suggestion - one of those "duh" moments when I say "Why didn't I think of this!?" Thank you!!



> Lloyd and Nash got into 2 fights at first, one mild, the other resulted in several punctures in both of them. Now they can be loose together as long as there are no toys. They even play together (again no toys). I even leave them together in the pen semi unatteneded (I can see them from a window) and they just hang out and play.


This gives me so much hope, I really can't thank you enough.



> I did a very, very strict NILIF with them to make it very clear that nothing belongs to them, at all, ever. I did a lot of counter conditioning, where Julie had one dog, I had the other and we did tons of mark/reward for looking at each other. We did this in every room of the house, in the yard, in the pen, on walks. Started at a distance (like across the room) and worked closer slowly, by a step at a time.


I already do NILIF but I'll be stepping it up a notch, especially for Jasper.



> One thing you can do is CAT for dogs (constructional aggression treatement for dogs). One member on here used this to introduce new dogs to his cattle dog who could be dog aggressive/reactive. Who ever is the dog that has the issue with the other (like if is bandit that doesn't like jasper) is the one who would sit still and you would have the other dog being walked up to a point, wait for the signals you want from bandit, and then turn around with jasper and walk away.


Great suggestion. I've been looking into CAT anyway to possibly treat Willow's leash-reactivity (yep, still working on that). It's an expensive DVD set, but if it could be useful in this application too... might be very much worth it. 



> 1) I would spend some time re enforcing Nothing in Life is Free with both dogs. Putting yourself in a very strong position of authority with both dogs.


Definitely a good idea, I'll be upping the strictness of the NILIF I'm currently using.



> 2)If you have never worked with dogs that are likely to show aggression to each other, I would find some help from someone that has. This forum is great and there is a lot of great advice on this thread. But if you have never dealt with aggression issues, you might miss something and things can happen VERY fast. Plus you seemed rattled by the incident. (that is not a knock on you, just an observation) The handlers demeanor and ability to control the situation plays a big role.


Good suggestion. I'll ask around. I was definitely rattled by the fight... we've had a total of four fights here... the other three were not really fights as much as scraps (and all due to my stupidity - handler error/left food in reach), and were over as soon as they started with no lasting issues. This is the first "real" one I've had to deal with. The other three I stayed calm, this one I just got more and more panicked as I couldn't get them apart, and I could see all the blood.



> Another thing I just thought of. Work a very, very strong DOWN! on your dogs. They need to be able to do it when a rabbit runs a foot in front of their nose. This can come in very handy if something starts you can yell DOWN! Once they are really engaged it won't work but if you see it starting it can stop a fight quick.


Will do...


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

I think you are gonna do just fine


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

with the crazy walk...

it kind of goes like this

the first contact is a brief glimpse with a lot of distance...just for like two seconds from like 100 feet away...so that it isnt immediatly apparent that its the other dog..just some dog...if the one dog ignores the other or just gives a glimpse and looks away,,reward,

with each succesive contact decrease the distance by VERY small increments and increase the time by VERY small increments. always reward good behavior.

you also want to do things like throw some obedience in there...like one dog turns the corner where the other can see him and that dog is told to sit or down and then reward for compliance. 

you would also want to do this in different locations. you are basically telling them "hey he's always going to be somewhere around no matter where you go. you might as well accept it. just chillax and you can have a cookie/toy/etc"


eventually this is how you want to do the meetings...

have a day where the crazy walk culminates with you and whoever your helper is coming together from opposite ends of the street and then turning the same corner, walking parallel to each other on opposite sides of the street...with you and your helper ignoring each other. just letting them see each other...and you walk calmly toward your predetermined neutral territory to let them check each other out briefly. 

and then build with that.

it takes planning but the fact that its very drawn out allows for calm adjustment and always halt and take it down a notch if they react.

sorry i didnt explain better earlier...i had to get to chem..


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Zim, thanks so much for the great explanation. It was very helpful!

I just ordered Jean Donaldson's book "Fight!" from Dogwise. It should be here next week and I think it will go a long way towards improving my understanding of aggressive behavior overall. I have her book "Mine!" since I've dealt with several resource guarders, and it has been amazing.


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## Adustgerm (Jul 29, 2009)

Call Cesar Millan.


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## nekomi (May 21, 2008)

Haha! Yeah, like I'd want Cesar to lay a hand on either of my dogs... but he DID say he wanted wolfdogs for his new episodes... hmmmmm....


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

because im a scatterbrained ditz at times i forgot to add..

if you can get them to interact calmly on neutral territory for an extended period of time..you want to move the crazy walk to your property. you and your hubby could do this..you tether one to you and he tethers the other to him and you use the same prinicple behind the crazy walk..go about some separate chores on different parts of the property sort of circling around each other and eventually having them fairly close. if they can handle that then move it into the house and do the same. 

another good idea is to go to the pet store and get a couple of one foot leashes to affix to their collars for some offlead together time if they get to that point(supervised of course) then if something breaks out you have a ready handle that you can grab.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> because im a scatterbrained ditz at times i forgot to add..
> 
> if you can get them to interact calmly on neutral territory for an extended period of time..you want to move the crazy walk to your property. you and your hubby could do this..you tether one to you and he tethers the other to him and you use the same prinicple behind the crazy walk..go about some separate chores on different parts of the property sort of circling around each other and eventually having them fairly close. if they can handle that then move it into the house and do the same.
> 
> another good idea is to go to the pet store and get a couple of one foot leashes to affix to their collars for some offlead together time if they get to that point(supervised of course) then if something breaks out you have a ready handle that you can grab.


Great Idea Zim,
If you can't get 1 ft leads just buy couple dogsnaps, some 5/8s inch nylon cord. Cut to size attach dog snaps. You can knot one end so when grabbing it will not slide through hand. Makes a very good handle and wider then a lot of leads.


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