# Are our dogs a coyote's dinner?



## pi1otguy (Jan 1, 2011)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/03/coyotes-attack-chihuahua-_n_2068967.html


> A nearly blind, diabetic 12-year-old Chihuahua was about to become a coyote's dinner until his owner intervened.
> ...
> “I took my newspaper and kind of held it out like a sword, and I shooed it away — I beat the coyote away,” she told the Sun-Times, adding that she then saw a second coyote standing within a few feet. “They were big — bigger than a German shepherd. They both took off when I started yelling and swinging the paper.”


I frequent an area that could have coyotes. I haven't seen them there, but my friend's house is within a half mile of a few hills that do have brush, hares, and other indigenous creatures so chances are I just haven't spotted them yet.

1) My dog is ~30 lbs and her's is still a puppy (probably ~25 lbs?). I'd presume they are a bit bigger then a large rabbit so are they still on the menu?

2) How big do coyotes get? I'm not sure I've seen one the size of a GSD. Not sure how effective I'd be against one that size.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

The coyotes here don't get as big a GSD, but they could eat a 30lb dog.

I worry about that here, because they run through my back yard! EEP


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I've also seen them hunt in packs and take on a dog that was about twice the size of a coyote.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Coyotes and coydogs are a huge problem in some areas. Coydogs in particular can be very bold and very large, depending upon the mix. 

Coyotes could definitely take a 30 lb puppy. A full grown GSD? Probably not, but the GSD might get injured.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

I have personally, in my immediate area, seen coyotes as small as my husky, (she's about 30 lbs) and some as large as GSDs.
I have also seen them attack dogs their own size, and larger.
A friend of my father's watched a pack of them lead his Great Pyr off then attempt to kill him. 

Like I've said before, I don't treat coyotes like I would any other wild predator. They freak me out with their bravery and determination. Best not to let your pets outside at night without some vigilance.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

My neighbor's golden retriever was attacked by coyotes. I also know of a pair of pit bulls that were attacked by coyotes on another forum a few years ago. We've seen them cross through our yard on occasion.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Yes indeed if it's got a head, 4 legs, tail optional it pretty much can be a coyote dinner. Definitely the luring off and attack program does work.

In Chicago they actually have at least one running around so I would assume they can pretty much show up anywhere.


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## Weolanko (Oct 26, 2012)

My parents often speak fondly of their akita that they lost to a pack of coyotes 20 years ago...

It is not a threat that I would take lightly.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Weolanko said:


> My parents often speak fondly of their akita that they lost to a pack of coyotes 20 years ago...
> 
> It is not a threat that I would take lightly.


The above reply says it all.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

RonE said:


> I've also seen them hunt in packs and take on a dog that was about twice the size of a coyote.


Coyote do not hunt in packs, but coydogs do.

We call them dogotes ;P


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## Mack Maya Iowa (Oct 2, 2012)

At our cabin in Northern Wisconsin we have both wolves and coyotes. The coyotes there are about 25-40 lbs (I would guess), however they don't tend to venture near the cabin area. My mom did encounter a wolf (50-75 lbs) out walking a few years ago with our dogs, and she was terrified because the wolf wouldn't back down. She had to stand there swinging her walking stick while the dogs ran back to the cabin before the wolf ran the other direction. We are more concerned with Bear up there, especially one with cubs. Our BC actually chased one with two cubs up a tree by our cabin, and without intervention, she would have been mauled because the mother bear was starting to lash out to protect her babies, and our BC was protecting our property. 

I could see a coyote taking out a dog that was its size or maybe slightly bigger, but I could see a wolf taking out something much larger than itself.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

zeronightfarm said:


> Coyote do not hunt in packs, but coydogs do.
> 
> We call them dogotes ;P


I've seen -and heard of- quite a few packs of coyotes hunting together. I always thought they worked solo until I witnessed it myself.
I have trouble believing every single one of those packs was made up of 100% coydog members. It seems unlikely and unrealistic unless every coyote that mated with a dog had pups that left home to join the wild >.>


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

zeronightfarm said:


> Coyote do not hunt in packs, but coydogs do.
> 
> We call them dogotes ;P


Coyotes don't typically hunt in packs, but they will.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

HollowHeaven said:


> I've seen -and heard of- quite a few packs of coyotes hunting together. I always thought they worked solo until I witnessed it myself.
> I have trouble believing every single one of those packs was made up of 100% coydog members. It seems unlikely and unrealistic unless every coyote that mated with a dog had pups that left home to join the wild >.>


Are you sure they were 100% coyote? Coyote are solitary, they hunt alone. I have seen packs of coydogs take down boar in my yard, but never more than one coyote at one time. I live right out side of the state forrest, I do see them a lot. I also did several papers on them back when I was in "Nature" school.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I read somewhere that "purebred" coyotes are pretty rare now. Almost all have at least some dog genes. Not a lot of farm dogs are neutered. . .

So who knows what effect that has on behavior?


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Actually, while coyotes typically do travel alone or in pairs, they absolutely do live in packs.

http://http://www.urbancoyoteresearch.com/Packs.htm


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

As I've always understood it, coyotes will often have packs, though they're generally smaller and more fluid (members change) than wolf packs.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

zeronightfarm said:


> Coyote do not hunt in packs, but coydogs do.
> 
> We call them dogotes ;P


Maybe not in Florida, but I've seen it myself in California.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

RonE said:


> Maybe not in Florida, but I've seen it myself in California.


Yes in IL we have a bunches of coyotes that just hate to run alone.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I live in the city and earlier this summer I watched a group of four skitter across our front yard and then across the busy main road we live by. I'm guessing they didn't want to take on Jonas.


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## ajw (Oct 15, 2012)

wvasko said:


> Yes indeed if it's got a head, 4 legs, tail optional it pretty much can be a coyote dinner. Definitely the luring off and attack program does work.
> 
> In Chicago they actually have at least one running around so I would assume they can pretty much show up anywhere.


Not too far from O'Hare airport is one of the most successful growing populations of urban coyote. They used to head for the hills when human development took over their territory but are now adapting to urban life and coming back. Coyotes are crepuscular, so dusk and dawn are the highest risk times for predatory behavior. Yes, they will go after any domestic animal available. Wildlife is my profession. The size of the coyote directly relates to how successful the diet is, and yes they can be very similar in size to a GSD, but that's a very successful coyote.

This is why it is important to maintain canine vaccinations, in my opinion. Even in downtown Chicago, you have exposures.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

zeronightfarm said:


> Are you sure they were 100% coyote? Coyote are solitary, they hunt alone. I have seen packs of coydogs take down boar in my yard, but never more than one coyote at one time. I live right out side of the state forrest, I do see them a lot. I also did several papers on them back when I was in "Nature" school.


Honestly, though I see them almost every single night, literally, I probably couldn't tell you the difference between a coydog and a complete coyote. I don't sit and watch them, I run them off because I have an outdoor dog and outdoor cat, and my neighbors have outdoor pets as well, and chickens, so I have no interest in observing. I'd rather them gone. 
But I do know I watched 3 just last week walk one after out of the bushes near my home. Kind of odd that solitary creatures would be so close to one another randomly.
Again, I doubt every pack I've ever seen has been made up completely from coydogs. It seems unlikely.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

HollowHeaven said:


> Honestly, though I see them almost every single night, literally, I probably couldn't tell you the difference between a coydog and a complete coyote. I don't sit and watch them, I run them off because I have an outdoor dog and outdoor cat, and my neighbors have outdoor pets as well, and chickens, so I have no interest in observing. I'd rather them gone.
> But I do know I watched 3 just last week walk one after out of the bushes near my home. Kind of odd that solitary creatures would be so close to one another randomly.
> Again, I doubt every pack I've ever seen has been made up completely from coydogs. It seems unlikely.


Well as pointed out by another poster, pure coyote are becoming rare, so maybe that is a playing factor?

I have been seeing less coyote, and more coydog over the past few years.


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## ajw (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm not sure where the idea that coyotes are breeding often with domestic dogs is coming from but according to my wildlife director it is fairly uncommon. 

Coyotes are not quite the same species like canis lupis is compared to domestic dog. Behaviorally they would rather consume a domestic dog than mate with it.

Coyotes are not always solitary. They do cooperatively hunt quite often, even with other species such as badgers. So if it is dusk or dawn and they are together, it is most likely to team hunt.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Well.... I have a love hate thing going with coyotes..... They have moved into my state (Florida and yes I own it....  ) within my lifetime. When I was a kid they were not here.... Now they are everywhere. 

And frankly as a nuisance wildlife trapper, I have made money on them. I have never seemed to get the knack of trapping them. We have to use live traps in Florida. I have felt that I could get them with leg hold traps or snares. But that is never going to happen in Florida and I would have an ethical issue with using them.

But I have gotten pretty dang good at hunting them. I have killed MANY! In addition to nuisance jobs, my hunting partner and I do coyote and hog control on three properties in exchange for deer and turkey hunting rights. I took out three on a Saturday night a few weeks back. 

Our Coyotes are bigger than the coyotes I have seen out West.. There is a thread somewhere on this forum about Eastern Coyotes and how most carry Red Wolf DNA.... 

Anyway.... I have little fear of my dogs being victims of coyotes. Merlin, Buc and I had a run in with 5 some time back. But I am quite sure that was a territorial issue not a predatory incident. And my dogs came out fine. We are fairly certain the coyote that Merlin really mixed it up with did not make it. A coyote was found dead in the area. The Buzzards had worked it over pretty good so it was hard to be positive. 
http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/93488-freakin-coyotes.html
http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/93817-update-freakin-coyote-s.html

When it comes to pet dogs versus coyotes it is best to use caution. But it is a risk versus reward situation for the coyotes. The bigger the dog, the bigger the risk. 

Then there is my Grandaddy's favorite saying.... It is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog. 

And while coyote versus pet dog incidents are not common, a good number of the cattlemen, hunters, etc I know have had dogs that mixed it up with coyotes. But these are cow and hog dogs.... Working dogs and not pets. Catahoulas, Curs, ACDs, APBT, Am Bulls, and assorted crosses there of. Dogs that go toe to toe with woods cows and wild hogs. Coyotes do not fair well.


Oh and while I cannot speak on Western Coyotes... The ones I have seen out West while hunting out there, were mostly solitary or in pairs. Our coyotes here most certainly hunt in packs and family groups. 


We have a LOT of cat predation from coyotes in Florida. For some reason, even though our coyotes are bigger, we have very little issue with coyotes taking dogs. There is some but not much.


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## Max and Me (Aug 19, 2011)

We pretty much live in the woods and have lots of wildlife including coyotes. The weekly paper has articles nearly every week to keep your cats and smaller dogs inside yet people aparantly do not listen. I have seen the coyotes usualy in singles or pairs but ocasionaly in trios. One family had lost 2 Shelties to coyotes so they got a larger Lab. One day they put her out to tend to business and heard a ruckus. Three coyotes were attacking her. Luckily she survived with only a few bites and cuts. I remember a few years ago late one night hearing people calling to one another outside and alot of traffic and thought that it was a party breaking up. After I heard a helicopter I went out to see if it was a lost kid or something and to offer my help. It seems that the cop who moved in on the corner had his narcotics dog slip the lock on his gate and got out. Shep, once scheduled for euthanasia as an unwanted stray, came sauntering up the sidewalk sometime later and seeing all the cop cars ran up to his car to load up and go to work not knowing that all the fuss was over finding him before the coyotes did. LOL


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## vertigo210 (Jul 22, 2012)

Coyotes are quite common in my area, I have no doubt in my mind they would eat my chihuahuas in a heart beat - a coyote could possibly fit through the burglar bars where the chihuahuas stay, However they would need to get past both my wolfdogs  at 110 lbs my wolfdogs would make a meal out of most wildlife.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Coyotes freak me right the frick out. Probably because I grew up on the edges of a small town in the middle of nowhere, and my mother is the biggest fear-monger I've ever met. She used to tell us that if we were outside at my aunt's farm too late the coyotes would come eat us... and the stories my aunt told us about coyotes killing her dogs and cats didn't help either! Although apparently she lost most dogs to people shooting them because they looked like coyotes from a distance, which is sad.

I imagine the behaviour of various coyote packs varies with the sub-species and/or geographic population. For instance, where my mom lives, I've only ever seen coyotes in family packs or hunting pairs. But where I live, I've only ever heard of individual coyote sightings.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

zeronightfarm said:


> Are you sure they were 100% coyote? Coyote are solitary, they hunt alone. I have seen packs of coydogs take down boar in my yard, but never more than one coyote at one time. I live right out side of the state forrest, I do see them a lot. I also did several papers on them back when I was in "Nature" school.


Just returned from visiting a friend in the Ozarks. We heard the coyotes "singing" and there was definitely more than one, and definitely in the same place. I've also known of a bitch coyote to lure a dog out to be killed by the rest of the coyotes in the pack. Dogs who could probably hold their own against a single coyote.. I've heard them running in packs. Definitely NOT just one and not just coydogs. I suspect there are solitaries, just as there are solitary wolves. But if they are hunting larger stuff, a pack is more efficient than a single animal.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Willowy said:


> I read somewhere that "purebred" coyotes are pretty rare now. Almost all have at least some dog genes.


I doubt that this is true.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Pawzk9 said:


> Just returned from visiting a friend in the Ozarks. We heard the coyotes "singing" and there was definitely more than one, and definitely in the same place. I've also known of a bitch coyote to lure a dog out to be killed by the rest of the coyotes in the pack. Dogs who could probably hold their own against a single coyote.. I've heard them running in packs. Definitely NOT just one and not just coydogs. I suspect there are solitaries, just as there are solitary wolves. But if they are hunting larger stuff, a pack is more efficient than a single animal.


Yep, when I lived and worked on the horse farms just outside Calgary, AB, I would hear packs of Coyotes singing pretty much every night, and I knew at least one woman who kept racing huskies who said that the coyotes would come to her fence and try to lure her dogs off all the time.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

Pawzk9 said:


> I read somewhere that "purebred" coyotes are pretty rare now. Almost all have at least some dog genes.
> 
> I doubt that this is true.


Apparently (According to wikipedia, anyway), dog-coyote hybrids have low fertility and high birth defect and genetic disease rates within 3 generations of inbreeding, which suggests that dogyotes, or coydogs, or whatever you want to call them, would not persist well in the wild.


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## RitaNg123 (Sep 27, 2012)

Ahhh! I wish I hadn't read this thread. I feel like my dog is never getting walked again!!!

I moved into a neighborhood a year ago, and it is very close to this huge huge park. My area is full of walking paths and mini patches of "wildlife" or whatever. So I've driven late at night and seen deer and coyotes and such. Usually just one coyote, but I've also seen two together before.

I told myself I would only ever walk the dog in the daytime, but it has been getting darker earlier. Not too sure what to do. Last week I came home from work and it was a beautiful day out, so I went exploring the walking paths, and now I'm paranoid about running into a coyote/s. I HEARD they "don't come out" in the daytime. I've heard they are afraid of humans. I also ran into a bunch of people and their dogs on these trails. But still....


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

gingerkid said:


> Apparently (According to wikipedia, anyway), dog-coyote hybrids have low fertility and high birth defect and genetic disease rates within 3 generations of inbreeding, which suggests that dogyotes, or coydogs, or whatever you want to call them, would not persist well in the wild.


Yeah, I saw that. Interesting. I was sure I read something about the "corruption" of pure coyote and wolf lines in National Geographic, but I can't find anything now. At any rate, coydogs are common enough, and it's still my theory that that disrupts their natural behavior.

Oddly enough, my cousins' longest-lived farm dog was a little Poodle mix, maybe 20 pounds, and he ran with the coyotes every night. He was never hurt, even after moving to a different farm (so a diffferent group of coyotes) and lived to be 17. We had a number of family jokes involving "coyote-poo puppies", although there was never any proof of that. And, although my family members lost an astounding number of dogs in an astounding number of different and appalling ways, they never did lose one to coyotes. So I've never believed stories of dogs of reasonable size being killed by 'yotes. .. but I guess at least some are true.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Willowy said:


> At any rate, coydogs are common enough, and it's still my theory that that disrupts their natural behavior.


I think it's far more likely that they are adapting their behavior to different circumstances. Coyotes are true generalists and they are highly adaptable. Up in remote areas of Northern Minnesota, the coyotes I've encountered have been very shy and wary of people and I've only seen them singly or at most in pairs. Urban coyotes are a whole different ballgame, they act different and definitely hang out and hunt in packs. They are clever animals and are less "locked in" to specific behavior sets than more specialized predators, IME/IMO.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

There are a ton of coyotes up here. I've seen them singly and in pairs, and heard them in larger groups, at all times of the day or night. The ones around here are about the size of a border collie and are all pretty homogeneous in appearance. I would doubt there are any coy-dogs around here.


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## pi1otguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Just great. I was hoping that once the dog grew bigger than a hare it'd be a non-issue. *sigh*


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## Mack Maya Iowa (Oct 2, 2012)

Rowdy said:


> There are a ton of coyotes up here. I've seen them singly and in pairs, and heard them in larger groups, at all times of the day or night. The ones around here are about the size of a border collie and are all pretty homogeneous in appearance. I would doubt there are any coy-dogs around here.


That's exactly the size that our coyotes are up in Northern Wisconsin! I also doubt that that coyotes in N Wisc. are coy-dogs, they are roaming through miles of forest land, which is inhabited mostly by wolves, bear, coyotes, and deer. Any chance mating with a dog would be extremely rare, and I have never once come across a stray/roaming dog, unless it was a bear-dog that was being pursued by its owner, or a coyote that looked even remotely similar to a domestic dog, but I am sure that in more populated areas, there are probably some coy-dogs that exist


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## RitaNg123 (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh great! So they DO come out in the daytime...

Not really sure how to handle walking a 12 pound Shih Tzu if I am faced with coyotes. Everyone tells me they aren't a threat if there are humans around, but I'm pretty scared of them. I think I am, anyways. I've only ever seen them while driving in my car.

I thought about driving to a busier street or something and just walking my dog up and down the streeth that way, but that seems pretty ridiculous, and I've actually seen the damn things on fairly populated streets, too.


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## savvy (Nov 6, 2012)

Coyotes are around 40 lbs on average, but most all wild canine type animals are very underweight.
Carnivores don't 'eat' carnivores, they will kill other carnivores but that is a pointless use of energy they need when they could be killing something more edible.

The standard for a GSD is 66-88 lbs, a wolf is about that size, but not a coyote.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

savvy said:


> Carnivores don't 'eat' carnivores, they will kill other carnivores but that is a pointless use of energy they need when they could be killing something more edible.


Coyotes will pretty much eat anything they can catch and eat. Why on earth wouldn't they eat a small dog or cat?


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

sassafras said:


> Coyotes will pretty much eat anything they can catch and eat. Why on earth wouldn't they eat a small dog or cat?


I was gonna say, meat is meat!


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

sassafras said:


> Coyotes will pretty much eat anything they can catch and eat. Why on earth wouldn't they eat a small dog or cat?


Pretty much.
There's a joke in my area (not really a joke) that a cat is a coyote's favorite meal. I've known of Coyotes attacking and killing, and eating, other carnivores -like cats, small dogs, dogs their own size...


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Pawzk9 said:


> Just returned from visiting a friend in the Ozarks. We heard the coyotes "singing" and there was definitely more than one, and definitely in the same place. I've also known of a bitch coyote to lure a dog out to be killed by the rest of the coyotes in the pack. Dogs who could probably hold their own against a single coyote.. I've heard them running in packs. Definitely NOT just one and not just coydogs. I suspect there are solitaries, just as there are solitary wolves. But if they are hunting larger stuff, a pack is more efficient than a single animal.


Out towards Arcadia I hear packs all the time and we catch them on our game cam quite a bit. I was at mitch in Edmond the other day and heard some coyotes across the way and all the dogs in that neighborhood went CRAZY. You could hear dozens of dogs carrying on and the coyotes yammering away back at them. and that's in suburbia, not out in the country. 

We also had a trio of them when I was in high school in Edmond that were at the local elementary school playground then ended up in our parking lot (one hid under a car for a very long time and they put the school on lockdown).

I've also seen a group of 3 moving through Yellowstone together. 

The pair of pit bulls I know that were attacked did end up killing the coyote but not without taking a lot of damage themselves and ending up in the emergency vet needing quite a lot of stitches.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

savvy said:


> Carnivores don't 'eat' carnivores, they will kill other carnivores but that is a pointless use of energy they need when they could be killing something more edible.


Except there are plenty of reports of them eating dogs and cats. Was it Canada in the last few years where they killed a hiker? I don't think there are any hard and fast rules to survival..


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## Monster Malak (Jan 18, 2011)

I have used Livestock Guardian Dogs for 22 years to protect my fowl and stock from the Coyotes. Problem is that the Coyotes are changing in behaviors and in size. Many are being killed that weigh up to 50 pounds in East Texas.

Could be an infusion of domestic canine or wolf DNA, The farther East one goes in the USA, the more Wolf influence or DNA.

But let me tell you, Coyotes are hunters, and dogs are either on the menue, or an obstacle to overcome to get at livestock. I have seen packs with as many as 15+, and have heard of packs as big as 30. This usually happens in the winter, when the family units unite. They have overpowered up to two of my Pyrenees cross LGDs, and come in and killed almost everything I had. And they will kill more than they can eat.
It is quite common for coyotes to take cats and small dogs around here.

I had to go to a more capable breed of LGD to prevent the attacks. Both the Kangals and Boz are plenty of dog, and have no problems with the packs.

Coyote Repellent
Full Grown Boz Shepherd


Reading back through the post, there is doubt that carnivors will eat other carnivors. In the Wolf and less so, but still in the coyote, there is a natural instinct to kill and eat other canines that are competition to them. When wolves move into an area, the first thing they do is hunt down and kill the coyotes. Survival of the fittest, and removing competition. Sad but true. This is why the wolves are much harder to control with LGDs. They are viewed as competition.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Monster Malak said:


> But let me tell you, Coyotes are hunters, and dogs are either on the menue, or an obstacle to overcome to get at livestock.


I think this is a good way to put it.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

We have a coyote that passes thru our property frequently I watched him drag away a screaming newborn fawn once while the doe ran around like a chicken with it's head cut off. The coyote we have can't be more than 45 pounds soaking wet, and I have only ever heard it alone and seen it alone. Not saying they can't run together, ours just doesn't.


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## savvy (Nov 6, 2012)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Except there are plenty of reports of them eating dogs and cats. Was it Canada in the last few years where they killed a hiker? I don't think there are any hard and fast rules to survival..


There are also MANY reports of Pit Bulls eating humans, but I can guarantee they were not 'eating' anyone, if your dog was eaten by a coyote there would be nothing left to identify as your dog, for all you know they could have just drug it into a ditch and killed it.

I have seen the difference between a fox or coyote killing a cat and a fox or coyote killing a chicken, the cat is left whole, all you find of the chicken is feathers, and the way they attack is completely different too, when killing small prey they will all crowd in and take part, when killing small prey with the intend of eating it they kill it quick and usually only one goes in for the kill. The Chihuahua that was attacked by coyotes was obviously not being eaten, it grabbed onto his legs because he was killing for sport, having a little fun before he finished him.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

savvy said:


> There are also MANY reports of Pit Bulls eating humans, but I can guarantee they were not 'eating' anyone, if your dog was eaten by a coyote there would be nothing left to identify as your dog, for all you know they could have just drug it into a ditch and killed it.
> 
> I have seen the difference between a fox or coyote killing a cat and a fox or coyote killing a chicken, the cat is left whole, all you find of the chicken is feathers, and the way they attack is completely different too, when killing small prey they will all crowd in and take part, when killing small prey with the intend of eating it they kill it quick and usually only one goes in for the kill. The Chihuahua that was attacked by coyotes was obviously not being eaten, it grabbed onto his legs because he was killing for sport, having a little fun before he finished him.


There are studies showing that about half of an urban coyote's diet is cats. . .http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/Wildlife/2009/1201/outdoor-cats-are-easy-prey-for-coyotes

And the local trapping supply guy sells ground cat for coyote bait.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

savvy said:


> There are also MANY reports of Pit Bulls eating humans, but I can guarantee they were not 'eating' anyone, if your dog was eaten by a coyote there would be nothing left to identify as your dog, for all you know they could have just drug it into a ditch and killed it.
> 
> I have seen the difference between a fox or coyote killing a cat and a fox or coyote killing a chicken, the cat is left whole, all you find of the chicken is feathers, and the way they attack is completely different too, when killing small prey they will all crowd in and take part, when killing small prey with the intend of eating it they kill it quick and usually only one goes in for the kill. The Chihuahua that was attacked by coyotes was obviously not being eaten, it grabbed onto his legs because he was killing for sport, having a little fun before he finished him.


Whether or not coyotes are eating the cats and dogs they kill doesn't reduce the danger of pets being loose in areas with coyotes present.

ThoseWordsAtBest: It was a 19 year old singer from Toronto who was killed in a national part on Cape Breton. She was taken down by 2 coyotes.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

savvy said:


> I have seen the difference between a fox or coyote killing a cat and a fox or coyote killing a chicken, the cat is left whole, all you find of the chicken is feathers, and the way they attack is completely different too, when killing small prey they will all crowd in and take part, when killing small prey with the intend of eating it they kill it quick and usually only one goes in for the kill. The Chihuahua that was attacked by coyotes was obviously not being eaten, it grabbed onto his legs because he was killing for sport, having a little fun before he finished him.


What are you basing this on? A common tactic, according to cruelty investigators and veterinary forensics experts I've spoken to, is for coyotes to essentially bite cats right in half and run off with whatever half they end up with to eat it elsewhere. Finding half-cats around the neighborhood is often mistaken for animal abuse by humans, which is how investigators have learned about it. Coyotes absolutely eat cats, or whatever they can get their grubby mitts on. They are true opportunistic generalists.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Willowy said:


> There are studies showing that about half of an urban coyote's diet is cats. . .http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/Wildlife/2009/1201/outdoor-cats-are-easy-prey-for-coyotes
> 
> And the local trapping supply guy sells ground cat for coyote bait.


I actually cannot think of a single reason why a coyote wouldn't kill an eat a cat or a dog.


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## Mack Maya Iowa (Oct 2, 2012)

sassafras said:


> Coyotes absolutely eat cats, or whatever they can get their grubby mitts on. They are true opportunistic generalists.


This is what I was thinking! Most will eat just about anything they can get their paws on, whenever the opportunity presents itself. At least around here, most of the coyotes are lean and ragged looking due to lack of viable food sources.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

HollowHeaven said:


> I actually cannot think of a single reason why a coyote wouldn't kill an eat a cat or a dog.


Well, I think there is kind of such a thing as "professional courtesy among carnivores". We used to have an indoor/outdoor cat who would routinely kill and eat squirrels and other largish critters, but he never messed with my ferrets (same size or smaller than a squirrel). Whether that's because he knew they were pets or whether it really was because they're carnivores I don't know. But coyotes absolutely will eat anything they can get in their mouths so I don't think they much care about professional courtesy, LOL.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Well, I think there is kind of such a thing as "professional courtesy among carnivores".


I usually think of it like that when it comes to OTHER predators, but not with coyotes.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Coyotes absolutely eat cats and dogs, it's a common issue in urban areas.

http://http://people.westminstercollege.edu/faculty/tharrison/citycreek/Coyotes/Diet.htm

http://http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/Wildlife/2009/1201/outdoor-cats-are-easy-prey-for-coyotes

http://http://www.albertaparks.ca/media/2670/Fish%20Creek%20PP%20WEB_coyotes.pdf


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## Tank_Belle (Nov 7, 2012)

I live in L.A. county, and the most frequent cause of dogs and cats being bitten/maimed/killed by another animal at our emergency hospital...hands down caused by coyotes.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

savvy said:


> There are also MANY reports of Pit Bulls eating humans, but I can guarantee they were not 'eating' anyone, if your dog was eaten by a coyote there would be nothing left to identify as your dog, for all you know they could have just drug it into a ditch and killed it.
> 
> I have seen the difference between a fox or coyote killing a cat and a fox or coyote killing a chicken, the cat is left whole, all you find of the chicken is feathers, and the way they attack is completely different too, when killing small prey they will all crowd in and take part, when killing small prey with the intend of eating it they kill it quick and usually only one goes in for the kill. The Chihuahua that was attacked by coyotes was obviously not being eaten, it grabbed onto his legs because he was killing for sport, having a little fun before he finished him.


I don't even understand your analogy. Are you projecting the dogs and cats people see, see with their special eyes, coyotes run off with they're actually just punking the owners and gently relocating the animal somewhere else? I have no idea why you're so adamant a wild animal would not eat a dog. So if they're just killing for funsies it's not a threat? 



gingerkid said:


> Whether or not coyotes are eating the cats and dogs they kill doesn't reduce the danger of pets being loose in areas with coyotes present.
> 
> ThoseWordsAtBest: It was a 19 year old singer from Toronto who was killed in a national part on Cape Breton. She was taken down by 2 coyotes.


Yes, that's what I was thinking of. That was so sad. I've only experienced skittish yotes that could be run off fairly easily. I ran into one years ago when Smalls was a pup in my parent's yard that was NOT running off. So I did the natural thing and picked her up and ran like the wind for the car.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

> Well, I think there is kind of such a thing as "professional courtesy among carnivores".


I don't think wild animals subscribe to that kind of emily post etiquette. With the ferrets it is likely about pets and learning what is and is not acceptable prey and for other carnivores I think its a risk/reward scenario. Taking down a wolf doesnt make much sense when you could take down a deer instead.


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## jersey_gray (Dec 8, 2011)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Coyotes don't typically hunt in packs, but they will.


This. Coyotes will hunt in packs if it's advantageous for them.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

They're everywhere out here, and we respect them. They've yet to try anything on our dogs, but we never let our guard down.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

I can watch them every night. They bed down kitty corner to my land in a treed gully in a cattle pasture. They pass in front of my window to get there. My neighbor behind has chickens and the coyotes have a trail on the other side of my fence to raid her stock. I am fully fenced, but there has been a few times that I've been walking the fenceline with my small dogs and one or another has trotted by so close that I could reach over and touch. I've not seen many big ones here.

My smallest dog is well aware that she is bait. When we have have been out on late evening walks (at dusk or darker) she becomes very wary - and we indeed have been tracked our full walk by coyotes before.

The dairy farmer a few miles away (a friend) has had her collie mix lured out at dawn before. They are up to milk early enough that her OH saw the goings on and interrupted the activity with gun shots.

SOB


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

In the suburbs in N. Texas, the coyotes are about 40 - 50 lbs with beautiful, full gray coats. We can see them sunning on the grassy areas near the highway, where woods are close by. They are very intelligent, and you can see the intelligence as they look at you in the car, if you drive by one. The first one that I saw looking like a healthy dog. I have never seen more than one at a time, but we've heard as many as 4 on the woods. They will kill and eat pet cats ... and we warn new neighbors not to let their pets roam. 

It is not a pleasant sound to hear a small dog go into the woods and start alarm barking, then change to fear barking... then stop. Our rule of thumb is that coyotes won't mess with dogs over 70 lbs, b/c a big dog can injure one of the coyotes in the pack, even though the pack will kill the big dog. ... But an injured coyote can't go to the local Vet.

Coyotes will usually avoid people, but there was a video of someone walking their small dog and a coyote came out of the woods to snatch the little dog, jut a few feet from the owner. The leash saved the little dog, allowing the owner to scare off the coyote, and the dog was taken to the Vet with puncture wounds. 

Although everything else is bigger in Texas, coyotes seem to be about average sized. I don't have experience with coyotes in other regions.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

The coyotes I saw were in Death Valley. One of the campers there thought it was hilarious to send his big dog (maybe an Anatolian Shepherd - it was a long time ago) to chase the coyotes. On the last little adventure, the dog failed to return. 

Maybe the coyotes read somewhere that the dog was an omnivore - not a carnivore. And they failed to realize that they don't hunt in packs.

Anyway, that owner was an idiot.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

Hmm seems like what I always thought was true about Coyotes is wrong. Learn some thing new every day.


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## EdDTS (May 30, 2012)

Where I live in California if you see one there are two. If you see 4 there are 8.
I never worry too much about them though, I've never actually seen them during my walks with my dog. I know they are around but they seem to avoid me and my dog for some reason, even when I let him roam far from me, they've never bothered him.
But this man who owns two wolfdogs and lets them off, they always get into scraps with the coyotes in the area and he constantly tells me about how he sees them.
He's very lucky one of his wolfdogs is a serious fighter. He's witnessed that one kill 5 by itself and I don't doubt it, I've seen it in action.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

We have coyotes in the woods right behind our house,though they do live in packs and hunt in packs,we have never seen more then one come up to the house at a time,one will come and scope out the area and the potential hunting then return to their dens to call the others out to hunt.We have a small jack russell terrier that stays locked up in a chain link run at night and the coyotes have pulled the back of his fence up to gain access,we found it the next morning before they were able to come back that night and finish getting through and snatching my 18 pound jack.They have also been scouring our old dog and trying to figure out how to get him.My hubby has shot one so far that was as big as a german shepard.They will snatch small dogs 30 lbs and under and cats.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

They are very intelligent, and they can be pretty, looking like they'd make cute, soft, cuddly pets ... like brown bears and pandas


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

RonE said:


> The coyotes I saw were in Death Valley. One of the campers there thought it was hilarious to send his big dog (maybe an Anatolian Shepherd - it was a long time ago) to chase the coyotes. On the last little adventure, the dog failed to return.
> 
> Maybe the coyotes read somewhere that the dog was an omnivore - not a carnivore. And they failed to realize that they don't hunt in packs.
> 
> Anyway, that owner was an idiot.


That's what I love about DF, everytime I think I've heard it all about dogs paying the price for their owners stupidity I find I've not even scratched the surface.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

hanksimon said:


> They are very intelligent, and they can be pretty, looking like they'd make cute, soft, cuddly pets ... like brown bears and pandas


As far as bears go, pandas are pretty harmless. (Not that its a good idea to hug one, or anything. If that was a brown/grizzly bear, that guy would've had a more injuries than a few bites!)

I've never found coyotes to be particularly cute... unless they were itty bitty cubs. But then, there are very few animals that AREN'T cute as itty bitty babies.

Its really unfortunate that some people don't take coyotes seriously as a danger to their dogs. For now, it seems that most coyotes are still pretty wary of people, but that's clearly changing.


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## ajw (Oct 15, 2012)

Gotta correct something here, carnivores will eat other carnivores happily. And herbivores and omnivores too. Barred Owls love to eat Great Horned owls. They dn't play nice with any other owl species. Bobcats will eat Mink. It's called a food web.

As far as professional courtesy, only if cooperatively hunting and even then.....


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## Avery (Nov 22, 2011)

ajw said:


> Gotta correct something here, carnivores will eat other carnivores happily. And herbivores and omnivores too. Barred Owls love to eat Great Horned owls. They dn't play nice with any other owl species. Bobcats will eat Mink. It's called a food web.
> 
> As far as professional courtesy, only if cooperatively hunting and even then.....


Okay, I'm glad someone said something. I was thinking about how Orcas and Leopard Seals eat penguins, and Polar Bears eat Walruses and sometimes Beluga Whales. I didn't want to say anything because everyone else seemed so sure.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I think there was nearly universal agreement on this thread that carnivores eat carnivores all the time.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

ajw said:


> Gotta correct something here, carnivores will eat other carnivores happily. And herbivores and omnivores too. Barred Owls love to eat Great Horned owls. They dn't play nice with any other owl species. Bobcats will eat Mink. It's called a food web.
> 
> As far as professional courtesy, only if cooperatively hunting and even then.....


THIS...... BUT........

There is a risk versus reward thing that goes on here..... Predator on Predator predation not all that common because of the risk involved. A fellow predator is very likely to be MUCH more formidable than a similar sized Herbavore. More risk in taking that Mink versus a rabbit.......

A 50 pound dog poses more risk to the coyote.....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Also keep in mind that a fairly common sport is to hunt coyotes with greyhounds. Now greyhounds are fast athletic dogs. They are built to run not fight. But when the greyhound catches the coyote, the coyote is done for.... Does not take the greyhound long either. Seconds.... And it not much of a fight..... 

IF we had more open ground, I would have a couple of coyote greyhounds. We have thick woods and swamps here. So you have to run them with scent hounds. I used to have hounds to run deer and hogs with. But at this point in my life, a pack of hounds are too noisy.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Out here is the south west, Coyotes are _everywhere._ I work a night shift job currently, and they are outside when I leave at dusk, and are outside when I arrive home at 4:30AM. I like singing to them, because while they are smart enough to know not to come close to the house, they will always call back from the expanse of desert that stretches behind the property. And they are almost ALWAYS is groups. They aren't "pack" animals, persay. But like dogs, they are social animals and very _smart._ To smart for their own good sometimes. In the colder winter months, when food is harder to come by, they will ban together in groups to hunt, and often times dogs are their targets when the opportunity arises. As other people on here have said, they will send out a decoy to tease and taunt a dog, and then run off once the dog gives chase, and lead them right into an ambush. Oddly enough (and lucky enough) my two dogs have never had any interest in going after the Coyotes. They will watch and listen, but never try to chase. Which is odd, because they wouldn't hesitate to go after a dog or fox. I'm assuming they are smart enough to understand the danger associated with Coyotes. 

We have a fence separating the property surrounding the house from the desert behind it, but inspite of that we always use caution. We love and respect Coyotes, but we trust them about as far as we can throw them. We NEVER leave the dogs outside unattended, and we always have some sort of self defense on hand.


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## Akira223 (Jul 8, 2012)

Im in Eastern Ontario in the country. We have a LOT of coyotes here, and they are frighteningly large, I would say 40-50lbs minimum. They hunt in large packs and scream something awful. It scares me to death at night when I'm out with my GSD (she's about 75 lbs) but she will tear off into the woods after anything she hears. I turn on the flood lights and listen for coyotes before I let her out. We also have a rifle. 

There's a lot of Coyotes, and a lot of big dogs in our area, Retrievers, huskies, hounds, shepherds, labs. I've never heard of them attacking our dogs, but their pack sizes are increasing at an alarming rate. 

We had a huge surplus of rabbits this season. Imagine 6-7 rabbits in everyone's lawns. Trying to get out onto the main road in your car was like reverse whack-a-mole. This of course brought in the predators. 

I got an estimate for a hidden fence system for our property, it will cost me about $1460.00 I am hoping that when I get my fence installed next spring it will help deter her from tearing off into the woods for a midnight romp with the wildlife. 

Moral of the story. Coyotes are bold and unpredictable. Don't leave your dogs out at night.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Akira223 said:


> I
> We had a huge surplus of rabbits this season. Imagine 6-7 rabbits in everyone's lawns. Trying to get out onto the main road in your car was like reverse whack-a-mole. This of course brought in the predators.


My in-laws live in Colorado sort of at the edges of the suburbs of an urban area. They used to have a lot of coyotes about, then a walking/biking path went in right through the green space and the coyotes don't really hang around anymore. Now everyone is complaining about how bad the rabbits are, aheheh.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

We have been out riding with our dogs and had two Coyotes, trailing us through the trees (felt like those movies where you see the wolves in the trees following people). We just had the two big dogs with us and the dogs seemed to know and stayed close until we finally went through a herd of cattle and the coyotes turned back.

When we are walking out in the Valley with the little dogs, we stay out in the open most of the time so we can see any Coyotes that are around. We occasionally see Wolves but luckily they do not seem to hang around our particular area as there are no cattle out there in the wintertime.


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Kyllobernese said:


> We have been out riding with our dogs and had two Coyotes, *trailing us through the trees* (felt like those movies where you see the wolves in the trees following people). We just had the two big dogs with us and the dogs seemed to know and stayed close until we finally went through a herd of cattle and the coyotes turned back.
> 
> When we are walking out in the Valley with the little dogs, we stay out in the open most of the time so we can see any Coyotes that are around. We occasionally see Wolves but luckily they do not seem to hang around our particular area as there are no cattle out there in the wintertime.


THIS is Very very common. Probably a lot of people get "shadowed" and never know it. In fact chances are if you walk in the woods and there are coyotes in the area, you have very likely been "shadowed".

And yes your dogs knew. They were probably hanging close out of a sense of being protective to you. 
Mine will.... When I am walking in the woods I usually pick up on signals from the dogs that coyotes are back there.... My dogs seem to sort of be looking out of their side vision when coyotes are back there.
I have to watch Merlin.... He wants to fight them.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

JohnnyBandit said:


> I have to watch Merlin.... He wants to fight them.


I've had this happen with Diesel. I always hear him, even in a dead sleep, and I will always, no matter what, go outside to check on him.
It was about 1 a.m, when they start down here, and I heard him barking his "you're about to die" bark. I ran outside in time to see him go after a pair of coyotes. He chased them up our hill, across the road and back up until the mountain before coming home like nothing had ever happened. 
Talk about to crap your pants.

Diesel wants to kill them and Aleu wants to go run with them and have their mutant spawn. -.-


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

HollowHeaven said:


> I've had this happen with Diesel. I always hear him, even in a dead sleep, and I will always, no matter what, go outside to check on him.
> It was about 1 a.m, when they start down here, and I heard him barking his "you're about to die" bark. I ran outside in time to see him go after a pair of coyotes. He chased them up our hill, across the road and back up until the mountain before coming home like nothing had ever happened.
> Talk about to crap your pants.
> 
> Diesel wants to kill them and Aleu wants to go run with them and have their mutant spawn. -.-


Frankly since Merlin got into that scrap with them it has gotten worse... The altercation was self rewarding in the mind of an ACD and he wants more of it.....Now I usually leash him up if I think any are near.


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## hrosec (Jun 15, 2011)

JohnnyBandit said:


> Frankly since Merlin got into that scrap with them it has gotten worse... The altercation was self rewarding in the mind of an ACD and he wants more of it.....Now I usually leash him up if I think any are near.


Our dog Bear a Great Pyreenes border collie mix is the same way he hates the coyotes and wants to kill them we have to watch him carefully since he will also bring the rest of the pack with him. We do have a ton of coyotes around are neighbor hood. Though they don't come near the house anymore luckily!


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## PeoneJ (Nov 8, 2012)

Thankfully my older dog get scared rather than defensive when she hears coyotes. I've lived most of my life in wolf and coyote country. So, I guess I've always been aware and cautious of the risk of predation. Coyotes are especially highly adaptive to whatever you throw at them. That is why they are so hard to "manage". 

Another angle on this issue though is a friend of mine who lives in the country lets his huskies run free 24/7. His philosophy (which I know many may not agree with) is if his dogs get eaten by wolves/coyotes/cougars, at least they've had a happy, free life. However, this is the first year he's had his dogs chained up for their protection. Not from wolves or coyotes, but from people. This is the first year we've had open wolf hunting.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Wolf hunting? Aren't wolves endangered?


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## PeoneJ (Nov 8, 2012)

aiw said:


> Wolf hunting? Aren't wolves endangered?


No longer in the upper Midwest. It's controversial, but in MN and WI wolf hunting and trapping opened this year. I have mixed feelings on the issue, but they do have a stable population here.


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## ajw (Oct 15, 2012)

Wolf hunting should still be banned. Period. They were h.e.l.l. to bring back and with responsible farm animal management they wouldn't be taking livestock. I am absolutley AGAINST wolf hunting. Hunting in general is fine if done responsibly. Leave the damn wolves alone.


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## annadee (Aug 22, 2012)

I definitely wouldn't keep my dog of that size outside alone for a long period of time... pee break then come back in, just to play it safe. I also worry about coyotes, there's so many here, and there's also many missing small breed dog and cat posters.


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## Barbara Jo (Nov 24, 2012)

annadee said:


> I definitely wouldn't keep my dog of that size outside alone for a long period of time... pee break then come back in, just to play it safe. I also worry about coyotes, there's so many here, and there's also many missing small breed dog and cat posters.


We live in Indiana and my son's Bichon was eye-to-eye one night with a coyote. My son heard him barking wildly and decided he should check to see what was going on. He got there just in time. Kipper was about to become dinner. While their three children are now 6, 8, and 10 - I still worry about them. 

They live on a four acre plot at the edge of the town. My nephew also lives on a large parcel at the edge of town about 20 miles away. They have horses and dogs and have constant coyote problems. They can hear them howling at night.


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## Mr_Snips (Sep 22, 2011)

This is interesting since i live in the desert we get coyotes out here that are very small...maybe 20-30 pounds max than as soon as i go on base you will see coyotes that must be 50+ pound behemoths due to all the trash and MRE's that get thrown away. 

With that said we recently found a dead one in our yard that our siberian husky decided would be a good midnight snack...she is insanely smart and not that big either at only 45-50 pounds....makes me nervous about my little pit though.


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## vertigo210 (Jul 22, 2012)

We don't have many coyotes in my area but have plenty of wild hogs. I am much more afraid of wild hogs than coyotes. I always have a good grip on my wolfdogs when we enter the woods, I would hate for them to be injured by a rabid animal or a spooked wild hog.


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## Spirit_of_Cotons (Jun 21, 2009)

I have never seen a coyote, nor know if there are any in NJ, but since they can live anywhere, I'm betting there are a few that live in the state. I think seeing one would be awesome, but I would also respect them and not get close. They are, as many have stated here, opportunistic hunters/eaters. If I saw one with Luke, I'd pick him up and back up slowly and make sure I'd have a weapon with me for a just in case. I wouldn't want his predatory instincts to kick in. 

All the coyotes I read about hunt in packs and will eat a dog/cat/whatever they can catch. Animals will go after another if they are alone or small enough to catch; they know what's easy to catch and what isn't. I also read they're supposed to be afraid of humans but since we're moving closer on their territory, they have to learn to live with us and that can be dangerous as they get used to humans. Any wild animal can become dangerous if it gets used to human interaction. 

I would also love to see a wolf as they're my favorite wild canine. But I know they also hunt in packs and can/will kill a dog. This wolfdog was a the kennel where I worked and wouldn't come in (they're smart!) and someone tried to lure her in by using a dog. I thought that was insane as wolves hunt dogs, but thankfully Tiffany was too smart and didn't come in. I was scared to death for that little dog. The main thing is that people need to respect wildlife, leave them alone, and understand what they can do to our furry friends and try to prevent it.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

I live in New York City...
I have never seen a Coyote in person..only in RoadRunner Cartoons.
If a Coyote tried to drop an Anvil or a Piano on my dog , 
I would believe she would escape..and leave trail of dust behind her..and the piano or anvil would land on the Coyote.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

Don't mean to dredge up an old post, but I thought this time...

I'm in Nebraska, and we have had some very troubling coyote experiences in the last two months where my parents live. First, we have a huge coyote population. I'm hoping if we thin the herd a bit so to speak it will stop some of these occurrences. 

The first situation was about a month and a half ago. A bunch of coyotes packed up and took down a healthy buck deer right behind the shop (Within 150 yards of 3 houses and multiple outbuildings.) They got the deer cornered in a treeline. 

Second was last night, when one of the men heard a commotion he got out of bed to let his dog in and found the ranch dog completely cornered by 3 or 4 coyotes and making a racket, he scared them off, his own dog was out in the middle of a pivot cornered (at the center of the pivot where the machine part is gated in) by ANOTHER pack of coyotes at the same time. 

This is scaring the heck out of me personally, we have an outside dog with arthritis and a bad mouth that has fought coyotes off before and 5 outside cats. No one in the area has ever seen this kind of teamwork by coyotes. We often get in sick and weak calves from the other ranches, its only a matter of time before the coyotes find out its easy meat. I'm just hoping they don't get one of the dogs first. My mother (who doesn't touch guns normally) has already requested a loaded shotgun by the door in case one comes into the yard (just to scare it off, shoot over its head, she doesn't want to risk injuring it without killing it.)


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

Wow some of these sound really bad-- my only 2 experiences were pretty innocous (a hind end in front of me on the dog trail, one in my path briefly before melting away into the scrub) and in Golden Gate park of all places... I guess what interests me more is that Ive been putting off neutering my year old Bernese Mt dog and I am more concerned that he could be lured off by a coyote in heat (do dogs do that?)....


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## RabbleFox (Jan 23, 2013)

"Thinning out the herd" isn't really what you want to do. Predator populations are naturally controlled by the prey populations. When you kill off coyotes, you actually increase the size of next year's litter by making less competition for the surviving 'yotes. In a suburban environment, you need to cut the extra food supplies (don't leave garage out, don't leave small animals out, etc.). Its much more difficult to control coyote populations if you've got "easy pickings" walking around in the paddock. The only advice I can give is to have the older, weaker dogs put away at night in a barn perhaps and the younger, healthier dogs out to protect the herds.

Dogs can be lured by the smell of a coyote in heat but it is rather unlikely the female coyote will let your male dog mate with her. I would be more concerned with my male dog accidentally mounting a neighbor's un-spayed female.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

Candydb said:


> Wow some of these sound really bad-- my only 2 experiences were pretty innocous (a hind end in front of me on the dog trail, one in my path briefly before melting away into the scrub)* and in Golden Gate park of all places*...


I believe this. Last summer, my husband and I biked from northern California to San Francisco. We never stayed in hotels, we camped every night, including when we got to the Golden Gate Bridge and into the Marin Headlands. Coyotes were _everywhere._ Every night, we'd hear them yapping about 500 yards away. Never bothered us, but they were definitely interested.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I've heard rumors that an Irish Wolfhound can run down and dispatch a coyote fairly easily... not sure about the results with a pack?

@Candydb - Male dogs are lured by the smell of Female coyotes in heat, and the dog would mount if allowed. However, the more probable situation is that the male dog would go back in the woods and be ambushed by the coyote pair or pack.

In Texas, we have "packs" of coyotes in wooded rural/suburbs. We may have one or two coyotes in wooded suburbs, but usually can't support a larger family. It's common that we have to warn new neighbors not to let cats roam at night, and not to leave small dogs outside overnight. In the suburbs, here, 50 lb dogs are safe, but in the rural areas - even in non-farming areas - ambushes of pets by coyote packs are regularly heard (but not seen). I guess the size of the family pack is related to the size of the wooded area to hide in as well as the available food sources.

Although we have had small dogs stolen while the owner walked with a leash, I don't think I've heard of any coyote on human threats....


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## nemefeme (Jan 10, 2013)

I live in the city and about 5 minutes north of my house there's a golf course and small ravine; my boyfriend's mom sees out onto the clearing and I've seen coyotes there on several occasions, as well as deer at least every time I look out. They are honestly everywhere lol; I'd never let my dog run free there... or anywhere that's not fenced in and visible.

I just feel that the "packs" is part of their evolution in staying alive; coyotes are generally no match for a larger breed of dog; and perhaps with food being increasingly scarce/ cities developing over hunting land they have formed packs to hunt and gain prey they wouldn't have been able to before.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> Coyotes don't typically hunt in packs, but they will.


Yes they will hunt in packs. 
When I lived on Kirtland AFB in New Mexico many moons ago I would take out my 3 GSD's every evening for a walk in the fields at the base of the Sandias. A pack of coyotes would follow nearly every single time. They would try to circle my GSD's and me. I have no doubt they were attempting to catch a meal. It used to to scare the crap out of me at how close they would come to us, showing absolutely no fear. I had to carry a weapon because of them even though all 3 GSD's were right at, or nearly, 90lbs. each


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## nemefeme (Jan 10, 2013)

KodiBarracuda said:


> Don't mean to dredge up an old post, but I thought this time...
> 
> I'm in Nebraska, and we have had some very troubling coyote experiences in the last two months where my parents live. First, we have a huge coyote population. I'm hoping if we thin the herd a bit so to speak it will stop some of these occurrences.
> 
> ...


Times like this I'm glad I live in the city. That story is terrifying. You need to get some Irish Wolfhounds (lol, as per previous poster)


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

RabbleFox said:


> "Thinning out the herd" isn't really what you want to do. Predator populations are naturally controlled by the prey populations. When you kill off coyotes, you actually increase the size of next year's litter by making less competition for the surviving 'yotes. In a suburban environment, you need to cut the extra food supplies (don't leave garage out, don't leave small animals out, etc.). Its much more difficult to control coyote populations if you've got "easy pickings" walking around in the paddock. The only advice I can give is to have the older, weaker dogs put away at night in a barn perhaps and the younger, healthier dogs out to protect the herds.
> 
> Dogs can be lured by the smell of a coyote in heat but it is rather unlikely the female coyote will let your male dog mate with her. I would be more concerned with my male dog accidentally mounting a neighbor's un-spayed female.


Were not in a suburban environment, we are very very rural. Were not sure where they are getting the food to survive. I theorize that they are taking down deer because easy pickings aren't abundant on the ranch. If we take down some coyotes, there wont be as many to pack up, hopefully preventing the packs targeting our dogs.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

nemefeme said:


> Times like this I'm glad I live in the city. That story is terrifying. You need to get some Irish Wolfhounds (lol, as per previous poster)


I live smack in the center of San Francisco, and that is THE ONLY PLACE I have ever seen coyotes! (that and tons of huge raccoons, sewer rats, possums, skunks, owls, red tail hawks are really coming back, and squirrels).... well in the Park 1 block from my house (actually I have seen all the above animals, except the owls/ coyotes, on city streets as well, I guess cause I get off work at midnight and am out late -- its a nice time to walk the dog, undisturbed...)


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## nemefeme (Jan 10, 2013)

Candydb said:


> I live smack in the center of San Francisco, and that is THE ONLY PLACE I have ever seen coyotes! (that and tons of huge raccoons, sewer rats, possums, skunks, owls, red tail hawks are really coming back, and squirrels).... well in the Park 1 block from my house (actually I have seen all the above animals, except the owls/ coyotes, on city streets as well, I guess cause I get off work at midnight and am out late -- its a nice time to walk the dog, undisturbed...)


I've seen them but they don't pose an immediate threat to the parks I frequent. Having to worry about my barn animals or my dog being out on my own backyard is a worry that would haunt me.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

nemefeme said:


> I've seen them but they don't pose an immediate threat to the parks I frequent. Having to worry about my barn animals or my dog being out on my own backyard is a worry that would haunt me.


Well actually, I live 3/4 time out in the Sierras and my big dog (the Bernese Mt dog) stays out there with my husband and daughter and the 13 yr old Boxer-- we have 2 fully fenced acres and the folks next door just got some calves in....They used to have a guard donkey and a Livestock guardian dog but that tenant moved-- am curious about this whole coyote thing (no sign of them yet).. And also curious about a coyote- Berner cross as my boy hasnt been snipped yet(waiting til full maturity at 18-24 months for him)....


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## nemefeme (Jan 10, 2013)

Candydb said:


> Well actually, I live 3/4 time out in the Sierras and my big dog (the Bernese Mt dog) stays out there with my husband and daughter and the 13 yr old Boxer-- we have 2 fully fenced acres and the folks next door just got some calves in....They used to have a guard donkey and a Livestock guardian dog but that tenant moved-- am curious about this whole coyote thing (no sign of them yet).. And also curious about a coyote- Berner cross as my boy hasnt been snipped yet(waiting til full maturity at 18-24 months for him)....


LOL @ guard donkey... I'd love to see that


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I was just thinking about this thread the other day. The coyotes in our city have been reportedly getting bolder, to the point where the City AC and Provincial Wildlife have issued coyote warnings. We live literally across the street from a ravine, so I've always known that there were likely coyotes around. The coyotes regularly walk up and down our street (which we know from fresh tracks when it has/is snowing). There are also deer and foxes, beavers, muskrat, and occasionally moose and black bears. However, knowing they're there is much different than actually seeing them! I had a "run in" with a couple of coyotes recently (they walked across our path about 50 ft away, stopped and stared for a while, peed and started again, without any fearful body language...). FI insists we keep a small knife on our our walk-pouch. All of the coyotes we've seen have been bigger than he is. And I have only ever seen pairs of tracks.

@Candydb: I don't think a Berner-coyote cross would be unlikely. Firstly, because dogs and coyotes are not as fertile with each other as they are with their own breed, and secondly because if there is a lady coyote in heat, your pup won't be the only one drawn to her and I just don't think the gentlemen coyotes would let a dog (even a large one) in on their business without putting up a serious fight, which a dog would probably lose on the basis of sheer numbers.


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## RCloud (Feb 25, 2011)

gingerkid said:


> @Candydb: I don't think a Berner-coyote cross would be unlikely. Firstly, because dogs and coyotes are not as fertile with each other as they are with their own breed, and secondly because if there is a lady coyote in heat, your pup won't be the only one drawn to her and I just don't think the gentlemen coyotes would let a dog (even a large one) in on their business without putting up a serious fight, which a dog would probably lose on the basis of sheer numbers.


It happens a lot more often then people realize. My friend's dog, Athena, is part Coyote, and I myself had the opportunity to adopt a puppy from a litter that had been brought about by an Australian Shepherd that had been knocked up by a Coyote a while back.


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## Ratness (Jan 5, 2013)

zeronightfarm said:


> Coyote do not hunt in packs


I have heard then hunting in packs.. I live in the country and they make a BUNCH of noise when they catch something! Diffidently more than one hunting together..




> Our Coyotes are bigger than the coyotes I have seen out West.. There is a thread somewhere on this forum about Eastern Coyotes and how most carry Red Wolf DNA....


I actually kind of hope that the ones near me are part wolf.. I love listening to them howl, did last night with the puppies and our old man dog.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Ratness said:


> I actually kind of hope that the ones near me are part wolf.. I love listening to them howl, did last night with the puppies and our old man dog.


Just makes them bigger. 
Easier to eat your puppies, my dear!


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## Ratness (Jan 5, 2013)

> Just makes them bigger.
> Easier to eat your puppies, my dear!


Yea, that is why I am not one for letting them roam outside, especially at night!


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## Canaqua (Sep 27, 2011)

Ratness said:


> Yea, that is why I am not one for letting them roam outside, especially at night!


Yep. We have coyotes, I see them regularly if I'm out in the yard before dawn...just walking down the street like they belong there...which I guess they do now . I found a dead coyote in the woods a few years ago. We also have black bears here and there, there was one going through my neighbor's trash last month (also before dawn). 

I really don't worry about it, though, because my dogs (40lbs and 55lbs) are never outside without human supervision.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Ratness said:


> I have heard then hunting in packs.. I live in the country and they make a BUNCH of noise when they catch something! Diffidently more than one hunting together...



As for their noise: there are a lot of coyotes in my area. I live on a ranch outside of town. Anyway, we hear them quite often. Lately, for a few weeks now, my pack has been yapping like them. Frankly, I'm finding it quite irritating. If you ever heard the way coyotes yap you would understand. It sounds like a gang of little girls screaming. I have 10 dogs and that yapping is not amusing. I'm about ready to put shock collars on everyone..... not really but I have fantasize...lol

Anyway, back on topic; I have never seen a coyote travel alone. I've always seen them in packs of at least 3 or 4, often more.


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## Kobismom (Dec 17, 2012)

We live on the edge of the Wetlands... hence, lots of coyotes. We see them all the time when walking through the Wetlands and can hear them at night yipping away. There are sightings all over the place within a 5 mile radius as they are scouting food for their own pups. I'm constantly hearing stories of people's cats and dogs being taken by coyotes. 

Many people walk their dogs through the Wetlands, which is discouraged. There is one path, however, which is fenced on the edge of the Wetlands, where dogs ARE allowed (they even have dog bag stations posted around). We are hesitant in walking Kobi on this path right now. He's all of 15#.. perfect coyote food. Chances are coyotes won't bother me & my BF, but we have heard in some cases the coyotes are so desperate, they will stalk humans to get to the dogs or have even been known to take dogs right off their leashes! 

Until we know Kobi understands his commands better, and we're out of the Springtime, where the female coyotes are breeding, we'll stay away from the wetlands.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

nemefeme said:


> LOL @ guard donkey... I'd love to see that


Guard donkeys are very common. Mean suckers. You do NOT want your dogs around them. If our dogs get too close to the fence, they come ststampeding and stomping. There are 3 guarding the herd behind my dad's house. At my dad's new place there's at least 3 more turned out with the horses.

Here's a couple.


c4 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr



c2 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

one of the ones behind my dad's current house:


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> > LOL @ guard donkey... I'd love to see that
> 
> 
> Guard donkeys are very common. Mean suckers. You do NOT want your dogs around them. If our dogs get too close to the fence, they come ststampeding and stomping. There are 3 guarding the herd behind my dad's house. At my dad's new place there's at least 3 more turned out with the horses.


Yeah, it's definitely not a joke.
Donkeys, and mules for that matter, can commonly be found being used as protectors of other stock like horses, sheep, cattle, etc. 
Those animals will generally run before they fight. In my experience, a mule or a donkey will beat the living crap out of something before they will consider turning their back on it. If I think they can take it, good chance they can, and will definitely try.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

HollowHeaven said:


> Yeah, it's definitely not a joke.
> Donkeys, and mules for that matter, can commonly be found being used as protectors of other stock like horses, sheep, cattle, etc.
> Those animals will generally run before they fight. In my experience, a mule or a donkey will beat the living crap out of something before they will consider turning their back on it. If I think they can take it, good chance they can, and will definitely try.


I've actually been looking for a good guard donkey for a couple months now. We're having problems with packs of loose dogs getting in and killing our goats. The only problem is one of our geldings is an aggressive butthead to anything male so I can only take a female.


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## Candydb (Jul 16, 2011)

reynosa_k9's said:


> I've actually been looking for a good guard donkey for a couple months now. We're having problems with packs of loose dogs getting in and killing our goats. The only problem is one of our geldings is an aggressive butthead to anything male so I can only take a female.


Neighbor's donkey came from Wild Horse Adoption agency (must be one around where you are?)... His main problem was getting it loaded up into the trailer and then getting the Heck outa the way when opening the door...
Sure havent seen any coyotes around here, my Berner does a good job of patrolling and barking (very powerful, resonant bark)-- I hope he is enough....(He has the Schnauzer as back up 3 days a week)....


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Candydb said:


> Neighbor's donkey came from Wild Horse Adoption agency (must be one around where you are?)... His main problem was getting it loaded up into the trailer and then getting the Heck outa the way when opening the door...
> Sure havent seen any coyotes around here, my Berner does a good job of patrolling and barking (very powerful, resonant bark)-- I hope he is enough....(He has the Schnauzer as back up 3 days a week)....


I can very much see a BLM ass being better at it than a domestic donkey. Seems to me like they'd be more willing to protect their "herd". 
But I could be wrong.


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Candydb said:


> Neighbor's donkey came from Wild Horse Adoption agency (must be one around where you are?)... His main problem was getting it loaded up into the trailer and then getting the Heck outa the way when opening the door...
> Sure havent seen any coyotes around here, my Berner does a good job of patrolling and barking (very powerful, resonant bark)-- I hope he is enough....(He has the Schnauzer as back up 3 days a week)....


Yes, I think there was actually an adoption event recently but I wasn't able to go due to work schedule. One of our horses is a mustang from one of their events.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

We live in the desert near Palm Springs, CA on a golf course...coyotes are very frequently seen day and night, single or packs!!! I carry an air horn when walking my westies...coyotes hate loud noise!!!


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

We had a big Coyote problem in Taos. They would come around even with our LGD in the yard... However, once three of them got into the yard and were killed by Luytiy, after that they never came around.

Point is, hunting Coyote and other predators is beneficial to them as it keeps their natural fear of us humans within their culture and prevents them from getting too close to us. I don't personally hunt Coyote, and it's hard for me to see, but I do think it's an important part of wildlife management. 

Predators will typically not come to an area if there is a permanent presence of another predator - for us in Taos it was Luytiy, but it could vary well of been me and my shotgun too...


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

reynosa_k9's said:


> ...Neighbor's donkey came from Wild Horse Adoption agency (must be one around where you are?)...Yes, I think there was actually an adoption event recently but I wasn't able to go due to work schedule. One of our horses is a mustang from one of their events.


I'm amazed to read about this. Heard about it, but never seen it except on YouTube.... But, I'm such a spoiled "city slicker..."


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

Monster Malak said:


> I had to go to a more capable breed of LGD to prevent the attacks. Both the Kangals and Boz are plenty of dog, and have no problems with the packs.
> 
> Reading back through the post, there is doubt that carnivors will eat other carnivors. In the Wolf and less so, but still in the coyote, there is a natural instinct to kill and eat other canines that are competition to them. When wolves move into an area, the first thing they do is hunt down and kill the coyotes. Survival of the fittest, and removing competition. Sad but true. This is why the wolves are much harder to control with LGDs. They are viewed as competition.


I have one of Monster Malak's (Brian's) Boz x Kangals crosses, his name's Taskin. He's still young, but he is friendly with people, kind to our small dogs, respectful of his elder, very clean, and a total love bug. He's also a capable guard who shows impressive instincts even at a young age. I would recommend one of his dogs if you are in need of an LGD type dog. Taskin is way less aggressive than our COs have been.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

If I ever had to guard any thing, I'd get a giant flock of geese. Meaner than sin, those things.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> If I ever had to guard any thing, I'd get a giant flock of geese. Meaner than sin, those things.


Not to worry when it's rocking chair time we come with shotguns.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

wvasko said:


> Not to worry when it's rocking chair time we come with shotguns.


Well, the geese will just be a noise warning. They'll never see you coming.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I am glad we are in area with Coyotes rather than Wolves. We do occasionally see a Wolf passing through but they tend to hang out a little farther north and east where there are a lot of cattle. A few months ago my niece's husband was out with his Hounds trailing a cougar. The wolf pack homed in on his Hounds and he had two of them very badly injured when the wolves attacked them. They both had to have lots of stitches and surgery and both seemed to be recovering but then a few weeks later, the female bloated and they lost her. When they are out hunting if they see wolf tracks, they don't use the hounds but go to a different area.


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## HollowHeaven (Feb 5, 2012)

Kyllobernese said:


> I am glad we are in area with Coyotes rather than Wolves. We do occasionally see a Wolf passing through but they tend to hang out a little farther north and east where there are a lot of cattle. A few months ago my niece's husband was out with his Hounds trailing a cougar. The wolf pack homed in on his Hounds and he had two of them very badly injured when the wolves attacked them. They both had to have lots of stitches and surgery and both seemed to be recovering but then a few weeks later, the female bloated and they lost her. When they are out hunting if they see wolf tracks, they don't use the hounds but go to a different area.


Depending on the size of the hound pack, we have coyotes here who are just as willing to take down dogs as a wolf will.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> If I ever had to guard any thing, I'd get a giant flock of geese. Meaner than sin, those things.


Friggin Geese....!!!!
They dont obey any of the signs posted at school yards or parks..!!
The signs clearly says.."No Pets or animals allowed"
Yet they continue to land in massive numbers ..destroying the football field with poop !

If only I could unleash my dog!!...
She would chase them all back to Canada..and she would probaly make only 1 poop during this... (That I would pick up ...and dispose of properly )


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