# Teddy Bear Dog Breeder Question



## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

My wife and I are thinking about owning our first dog together. We have pretty much made up our minds that we are going with the teddy bear puppies at *Dirty Paws TeddyBears*, which are sire Shih Tzus crossed with dam Bischon Frise and Poodles. 

Does anyone have any experience with this breeder? If so, what was it like? 

Also, does anyone know the pros and cons of owning this type of dog, besides the fact that it is an expensive mixed breed dog?

And LASTLY, if you choose to respond, please...answer the questions I am asking. I am not asking about a shelter or rescue. Or am I asking about why a purebred is better than a mixed. I am asking about this particular breeder and the characteritics of this mix of dog....that is all.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

There is no such thing as a reputable or trustworthy breeder of mixed breed dogs. Period.

I'm sure you could get a sweet mixed breed dog for almost free at any local shelter or rescue. Why pay $950 to $1,500 for a mutt?


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## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

I know people are very opinionated about mixed breed dogs...so please if you could give me something a little more helpful than _they are expensive mutts_, which I already know, I would appreciate it. My question is regarding this particular breeder and any helpful information about the teddy bear dog's characteristics.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Go to the shelter, find a fuzzy little mix, bring him/her to the groomer and ask for a "round teddy bear face"


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

You have to understand, there is no such thing as a teddy bear dog. She is taking three dogs and breeding them. What their characteristics are is anyone's guess. That's why some people stick with purebreds where they get what they expect and others go with mutts and take whatever they get.

Anyone can breed two dogs of a different breed together, give them a fancy name and sell them for a fortune. It doesn't make it a breed OR a predictable dog with for sure characteristics.

Honestly, you are being very misled even considering paying such a fortune for a mixed breed mutt. There are many sweet mixed breed mutts in shelters everywhere who would love to have a new home.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

jatom said:


> My wife and I are thinking about owning our first dog together. We really like the teddy bear puppies at *Dirty Paws TeddyBears*, which are sire Shih Tzus crossed with dam Bischon Frise and Poodles.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with this breeder? If so, what was it like? Do you recommend someone else?
> 
> Also, does anyone know the pros and cons of owning this type of dog, besides the fact that it is an expensive mixed breed dog?


there is no such thing as a responsible breeder of designer crossbreeds...period..


Mixes are a dime a dozen in shelters across the country..dying.
Buying from this type of person only adds to that.


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## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

Do you have any experience with the Dirty Paws TeddyBears breeder? If so, what was it like?

Also, do you have any insight into the characteristics of this type of mixed breed?

Do you have any experience with the Dirty Paws TeddyBears breeder? If so, what was it like?

Also, do you have any insight into the characteristics of this type of mixed breed?


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)




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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

jatom said:


> Do you have any experience with the Dirty Paws TeddyBears breeder? If so, what was it like?
> 
> Also, do you have any insight into the characteristics of this type of mixed breed?
> 
> ...


1- No. I would never ever use my hard earned money to support a BYB.

2- Find the characteristics of a shih, a bichon, and a toy poodle - the "teddy bear" could have ANY or ALL of them.

MinPin - my feeling exactly


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

jatom said:


> Do you have any experience with the Dirty Paws TeddyBears breeder? If so, what was it like?


no...I wouldn't be caught dead buying a dog from such a breeder.



jatom said:


> Also, do you have any insight into the characteristics of this type of mixed breed?


there is no insight to be had...its a mix...meaning no way to predict which traits will come from which parents and anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar and needs to study basic genetics..

jatom do you know what *breed* means?


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

myminpins said:


>


Ditto what you said. BRICK WALL!
Nessa


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

jatom said:


> Do you have any experience with the Dirty Paws TeddyBears breeder? If so, what was it like?
> 
> *Also, do you have any insight into the characteristics of this type of mixed breed?*


This is an impossible question to answer. No two dogs bred from her will be the same. They are mixing 3 different breeds of dogs and trying to guarantee a temperment. You wont even come across a lot of purebred breeders doing that.

The reason to stay away from them is simply because she is doing it for the money, not for the dogs. Purebred breeders breed for the quality of the breed, something mixed breeders cannot do. They are not making any specific breed better, they are charging huge amounts of money for UN tested UNpredictible dogs.

The specific questions you are asking cannot be easily answered. No I have not had any experience with this breeder, but I know MANY people who have bought a mixed breed dog only to find out it's not what they were promised. If you're wanting to take a chance, go to the shelter, save a life. Instead of spending 1,000.00 on a dog that is only being bred to make the breeder wealthy.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

You have to understand, there is no such thing as a teddy bear dog. She is taking three dogs and breeding them. What their characteristics are is anyone's guess. That's why some people stick with purebreds where they get what they expect and others go with mutts and take whatever they get.

Anyone can breed two dogs of a different breed together, give them a fancy name and sell them for a fortune. It doesn't make it a breed OR a predictable dog with for sure characteristics.


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## craven.44 (Sep 10, 2008)

The problem with "breeders" of designer crossbreeds is that their motivation is almost always profit. They are not looking to improve the breed, as reputable breeders are. They are generally greedy and looking to cash in on the current trend of designer dogs.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Most people who ask this sort of question already have their minds made up anyway.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

GroovyGroomer777 said:


> Most people who ask this sort of question already have their minds made up anyway.


Very true. Unfortunately.


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

myminpins said:


> Very true. Unfortunately.


Yup that is why the little gifs you posted are very perfect in this thread.  It is a brick wall that we are facing here.
Nessa


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## tirluc (Aug 29, 2006)

don't get us wrong, here, jatom....nobody has any problems w/ the mutts...they make awesome pets and everything.....the problem we have w/ mutts is the people that intentionally breed them, stamp "designer" names on them and ask exhorbant prices on them.....and then there are the people that "buy" into it (and i'm not saying that you are being gullible and thinking you are getting a purebred dog, but there are some out there that are convinced that they _are_ indeed a new breed).....w/ a mix of anything, it's any ones guess as to what you will get in the characteristics.....they could go Shih Tzu, Bichon or Poodle (altho, i was always told that the "Teddy Bear" was a cross between only Shih and Bichon).....

but, if you check out the HS or rescues, i'm sure you would find a "Teddy Bear" that is in need of a home just as bad....at a fraction of the cost and you're not lining someones pocketbook all b/c they see the "almighty dollar" in these babies.....

that said, i know 2 and they are as different in personalities as night and day....and neither one is one i would want to own....(probably the owners fault there)


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Everyone in this thread already summed up how I feel.

You have to ask yourself, jatom, what is this breeder trying to do with her dogs? The mark of a good breeder is one who is trying to improve the breed in some way. Conforming to the breed standard AND producing dogs who are not only of exceptional lines, but are also proven in some area. A breeder who is crossing three breeds is doing none of those things. They are creating a dog who essentially has no new or unique purpose.



> I have been in the business of grooming, boarding and breeding small dogs for 25+ years.


Anyone could say this. Nowhere are there titles listed or special accomplishments. A puppymiller could say the same thing.



> Many times I have heard people say the same things over and over. "All we want is a little dog that doesn't shed, is not hyper, has a brain (trainable), is lower maintenance than the longhair toys, not so yippy, not so one personish, doesn't pee when you reach for it, not a digger or chewer, good with children, etc".


That already exists, for the most part, in a pug. Even a well trained Westie fits that bill.



> Another breeder may attempt to do this, but all my breeding boys and girls are hand picked and raised to produce the cutest, the smartest, the flirtiest, the most baby faced, etc.


That's all she's producing for.. looks. Not the mark of a good breeder in my opinion. If everyone bred dogs that they thought were cute, we'd have an overpopulation problem. ... oh wait, we already do.

Nowhere on the website do I see names or pictures of the parents of the puppies. I do not see anything about health and/or temperament testing. I do not see any titles on any dogs.

I know you're dead set on this but hey, you asked about the breeder, nowhere did I mention a shelter or rescue. If you want to buy from a breeder, buy from one who works with one breed, one who flaunts the fact that they test their dogs for various things, one who has no problem showing you the parents and most of all one who insists you give the dog back to them if something should go wrong.


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## PugChick (Nov 5, 2007)

jatom said:


> Also, do you have any insight into the characteristics of this type of mixed breed?


Breeding dogs isn't like mixing paint, where you know that so much red and so much white makes pink. Dealing with mixes of 3 breeds is like taking 3 colors and throwing them together at random. There is no consistency on what you will end up with. 

She seems like a very personable person who knows how to market herself. But being nice and a good businesswoman doesn't make you responsible.

If you want to spend big money on a puppy that is a total genetic crapshoot and is no better quality and has no more guarantee of health and good temperament than any other small mix you can get for under $100 at a shelter, well, it's your money.


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

tirluc said:


> *don't get us wrong, here, jatom....nobody has any problems w/ the mutts...they make awesome pets and everything.*....the problem we have w/ mutts is the people that intentionally breed them, stamp "designer" names on them and ask exhorbant prices on them.....and then there are the people that "buy" into it (and i'm not saying that you are being gullible and thinking you are getting a purebred dog, but there are some out there that are convinced that they _are_ indeed a new breed).....w/ a mix of anything, it's any ones guess as to what you will get in the characteristics.....they could go Shih Tzu, Bichon or Poodle (altho, i was always told that the "Teddy Bear" was a cross between only Shih and Bichon).....
> 
> but, if you check out the HS or rescues, i'm sure you would find a "Tedy Bear" that is in need of a home just as bad....at a fraction of the cost and you're not lining someones pocketbook all b/c they see the "almighty dollar" in these babies.....
> 
> that said, i know 2 and they are as different in personalities as night and day....and neither one is one i would want to own....(probably the owners fault there)


Yes good point Tir. Do understand that... we have nothing against mutts at all. Tir covered it all. These idiot breeders do it as a source of income for themselves and that is it. They do not health test or show any kind of interest in titles or anything good for their dogs. Just the fact that they are "cute" and only top out at "6-12 lbs" Who gives a hooot!

I know for a fact many shelters have these "Teddy Bear Dogs" Look on petfinder.com and type in those breeds... you will find tons that will look like that with good grooming.
Nessa


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

jatom said:


> Wow! I didn't know it was so hostile in here. I was hoping to get something helpful insight in here and not put down for a personal decision. I guess it feels good to act self-righteous and judgemental rather than give a well thought answer or just ignore a question you don't have much of a response for.


We answered your question and then some. We all said no we don't have experience with this breeder and we even added WHY for good measure.

Then we told you why your second question is IMPOSSIBLE to answer.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

jatom said:


> Wow! I didn't know it was so hostile in here. I was hoping to get something helpful insight in here and not put down for a personal decision. I guess it feels good to act self-righteous and judgemental rather than give a well thought answer or just ignore a question you don't have much of a response for.


It's not hostility, it's responsibility.

This forum is home to a large group of responsible dog owners, groomers, breeders and trainers, and I'd venture to guess that the majority of them have the same opinion that has been stated in this thread.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

jatom said:


> Wow! I didn't know it was so hostile in here. I was hoping to get something helpful insight in here and not put down for a personal decision. I guess it feels good to act self-righteous and judgemental rather than give a well thought answer or just ignore a question you don't have much of a response for.


no one is judging YOU.

this 'breeder' however is as unscrupulous as they come..

this 'breeder' is one of the reasons so many dogs die alone in shelters....this type of breeder makes guarantees that CANNOT be made with crosses...and people expect those guarantees to be true and when nine times out of ten it isn't ...the dog is abandoned at a shelter....

here....

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/whtzbred.html


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

MissMutt said:


> *It's not hostility, it's responsibility.
> *
> This forum is home to a large group of responsible dog owners, groomers, breeders and trainers, and I'd venture to guess that the majority of them have the same opinion that has been stated in this thread.


Exactly... it's responsibility and trying to help. That is it. It may not be what you wanted to hear... but many people do not know or like to hear the truth. Some do end up wanting to learn and wanting to know more about the truth of BYBers. Now we just wait to see if you're one of the ones that want to learn... or get an expensive pup real quick and in a hurry and help make an irresponsible breeder a rich person.
Nessa


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## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

I understand. But I did ask "do you have any experience with this breeder?" Also, "do you know what the characteristics of the dog are?" 

If your answer is no and no to those questions, why even post? Is it to feel self-righteous? I don't know you and I am sure you are nice person, but sometimes we let our passionate opinions and egos get in the way of being helpful.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Are you reading responses or not? The answer to number 2 is NOT POSSIBLE to answer and we are trying to tell you why!


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

1. I have no experieince with this particular breeder. 

Even if this person were breeding purebred dogs I would not buy a dog from her. According to her website she has no less than 3 litters born in the month of November. Any kind of good breeder would not be breeding that many litters, some not even three litters in a whole year. That's just too many puppies to have responsibility for all at once. 

Another red flag is that she will ship her dogs. Most good breeders want to meet you and know more about you, and they MIGHT consider shipping the dog for an outstanding reason. But many breeders will not ship dogs, for the health of the dog and also a chance to spend more time with you.

Red flag #3 is that she doesn't mention anything about screening buyers. there's no form to fill out and return, doesn't seem to be a waiting list for puppies being produced, and there's a LOT of puppies for sale.

2. You could get any, all, some, none of the characteristics of the breeds mentioned. There is no reliable gauge for anything with such variety.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

I'm not being self-righteous in the least. I just hate to see more unncessary dogs bred when there are so many of the type you are looking for already in the shelters. There are some who don't even feel responsible breeders should be breeding these days with the populations of the shelters.

We also hate to see anyone wasting humongous amounts of money on what we all consider to be a scam. Breeding "mutts" isn't rocket science and no one should be making a lot of money off it.

We're also trying to help save you from a lot of disappointment. You can get those characteristics in a purebred dog who's been temperament tested, disease tested, etc. 

We're here for the dogs, not the owners. For the most part, anyway.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

jatom said:


> I understand. But I did ask "do you have any experience with this breeder?" Also, "do you know what the characteristics of the dog are?"
> 
> If your answer is no and no to those questions, why even post? Is it to feel self-righteous? I don't know you and I am sure you are nice person, but sometimes we let our passionate opinions and egos get in the way of being helpful.



Jatom. We are very literally trying to be helpful. No one here WOULD buy from that breeder..No health testing(which im not even sure some nessecary tests can be done on mixes)..no coherant breeding scheme...exhorbitant prices for a crap shoot dog...that's a ripoff in the extreme and damaging..

the only way to stop awful people like this breeder from damaging more dogs and peoples lives is to NEVER BUY FROM THEM.


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## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

Thank you briteday your post was helpful.


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## GeorgeGlass (Jun 5, 2008)

jatom said:


> I understand. But I did ask "do you have any experience with this breeder?" Also, "do you know what the characteristics of the dog are?"
> 
> If your answer is no and no to those questions, why even post? Is it to feel self-righteous? I don't know you and I am sure you are nice person, but sometimes we let our passionate opinions and egos get in the way of being helpful.


The answer to question one: If you pay that much for a dog, you should expect it to come from good lines and registered dogs. You should expect health and temperament tests. This breeder doesn't offer that. So even if this was a purebread dog breeder, it would appear to be a bad one that people here wouldn't recommend.

Question two: Mutts do not have predictable characteristics. So no two of these dogs can be predicted to act the same.

ETA: Briteday covered it better than I did. The overarching point is most mixed-breed breeders will send up red flags. I did a petfinder search in my area and found a few "bichon frise mix" that looked similar to that dog. Now if you don't want a shelter dog, that's understandable, too. If you describe the traits in a dog you're looking for, folks here can probably guide you to finding a breed that fits those traits.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

jatom said:


> I understand. But I did ask "do you have any experience with this breeder?" Also, "do you know what the characteristics of the dog are?"
> 
> If your answer is no and no to those questions, why even post? Is it to feel self-righteous? I don't know you and I am sure you are nice person, but sometimes we let our passionate opinions and egos get in the way of being helpful.


I can almost guarantee that no one on this forum has had any experience with this breeder. According to you, you should have no replies in this thread.

No one knows what the characteristics of the dog are the same way they don't know what the characteristics of a puggle are. Some Puggles have a smooshed in face. Others dont. Some have long ears or a curly tail. Others dont. There is no way to say with certainty what you'll get in a Bichon/Poodle/Shih Tzu cross.

You've come here to confirm what you want. On this forum, you are not going to get responses hailing this breeder and saying what a lovely thing it would be to buy one of these dogs. If you want to go ask designer dog people their opinion, maybe you'll get what you're looking for. But any responsible dog owner is not going to be one of those people. I'm NOT saying you can't own a puggle or a yorkiepoo or a cavaweimarsharpittylabradoodlespitzimo, but please. Rescue one!


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## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

briteday said:


> 1. I have no experieince with this particular breeder.
> 
> Even if this person were breeding purebred dogs I would not buy a dog from her. According to her website she has no less than 3 litters born in the month of November. Any kind of good breeder would not be breeding that many litters, some not even three litters in a whole year. That's just too many puppies to have responsibility for all at once.
> 
> ...


If I were going to call this breeder, what questions would you suggest I ask her?


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Jatom, I have to ask, out of curiosity, why have you chosen this particular breeder and this particular dog to own? I'm just wondering what it is that is drawing you to them.


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## GeorgeGlass (Jun 5, 2008)

jatom said:


> If I were going to call this breeder, what questions would you suggest I ask her?


With three big red flags, I would suggest you find a different breeder to call.


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

I think the OP gets the idea and knows where we all stand. 

However, people will do what they want to do. So OP, have at it if you are set on getting a so called teddy bear dog. It's your money. But keep in mind, you were warned! You'll shell out big bucks for a mutt when you can a ton of sweet mixed breeds out of the shelter for much less than what this teddy bear thing will cost you.

There is no way to predict how those dogs will be in temperament, health, etc. They are mutts. No difference between those and the mutt you see trotting down the road. No predictability at all.



*rolls eyes* My Aunt just got a Labradoodle puppy, despite all the good advice given to her by me (for almost a year) not to get one. 

So I spent Christmas day playing with the new puppy. Who, btw has a lovely temperament and is very well mannered. 

Despite the fact that my Aunt knew better, she went ahead and got the pup, she loves it, it's a nice little puppy, and is getting a great home that will spend tons of money on her, and she will be spayed once she's old enough.

And yes I still talk to my Aunt. ;-)

Do we agree with designer dogs? NO!!! But the OP obviously wants one, and it looks like he won't change his mind no matter what we say. The knowledgeable people on DF have laid the issue out, and the OP still wants the 'teddy bear' pup. 

So let's just stop hashing the issue out.

And BTW, many reputable breeders ship dogs out. My mentor has flown pups out to CA before. And when you import, the dog is flown in.

Many good, reputable breeders, if they have the time, energy, and resources, will have 2-3 litters a year. Again, nothing wrong with that. My D was born the same week that the repeat of his dad hit the ground. So yea, two litters in the same week. Hard work, yes, but not impossible for a good breeder.


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

ok then, I'm done. Despite the three red flags, he is still going to call the "breeder".


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## GeorgeGlass (Jun 5, 2008)

txcollies said:


> Do we agree with designer dogs? NO!!! But the OP obviously wants one, and it looks like he won't change his mind no matter what we say. The knowledgeable people on DF have laid the issue out, and the OP still wants the 'teddy bear' pup.
> 
> So let's just stop hashing the issue out.


To be fair, I think the answers to the question of "why do you want this dog?" and "what traits are you looking for?" would help folks guide he and his wife to a possible good match.

Just guessing, but it sounds like the OP and his wife want the dog because it's cute. And while that's one trait that's certainly important, it's not the lasting trait that will ensure he and his wife are happy with the dog. If it turns out they want X, Y and Z trait, someone says, "Hey that dog has these traits" and then a picture is posted and the OP and his wife say, "By God, that dog is adorable!" Then maybe they will be net happier when all is said and done.


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## myminpins (Dec 20, 2008)

GroovyGroomer777 said:


> ok then, I'm done. Despite the three red flags, he is still going to call the "breeder".


Yup, me, too.


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## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks txcollies. I appreciate your feedback. I certainly have a better understanding for where you and many others in here stand regarding mixed designer dogs. And I appreciate that you respect my and my wife's decision even though it is not what you would do.



GeorgeGlass said:


> To be fair, I think the answers to the question of "why do you want this dog?" and "what traits are you looking for?" would help folks guide he and his wife to a possible good match.
> 
> Just guessing, but it sounds like the OP and his wife want the dog because it's cute. And while that's one trait that's certainly important, it's not the lasting trait that will ensure he and his wife are happy with the dog. If it turns out they want X, Y and Z trait, someone says, "Hey that dog has these traits" and then a picture is posted and the OP and his wife say, "By God, that dog is adorable!" Then maybe they will be net happier when all is said and done.


That's a good idea. Yes...the "cuteness factor" is one part. But also, we want a dog that is easy to train, 7 to 15 pounds, good around people (including kids), not too hyper/but not a slug either, minimum barking, hypoallergenic, minimum shedding, and soft and cuddly. We've both had poodles and are looking for something different. The purebred ShihTzu is interesting, but the coat gets really long. And ideas?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Morally I cannot support or respect the decision to buy such a dog..

Contribute further to shelter overpopulation. Its your perogative...but people like you make the jobs of people like me that much harder everytime one of these mutts is bought and then dumped for not being what the breeder promised....

so Im done.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

> That's a good idea. Yes...the "cuteness factor" is one part. But also, we want a dog that is easy to train, 7 to 15 pounds, good around people (including kids), not too hyper/but not a slug either, minimum barking, hypoallergenic, minimum shedding, and soft and cuddly. We've both had poodles and are looking for something different. The purebred ShihTzu is interesting, but the coat gets really long. And ideas?


You have NO clue if the dog will be good around people, not hyper, not sluggish, minimum barking, minimum shedding, hypoallergenic, you just don't get it. 

Take this is an example, say a new designer breed comes out, it is a huskoodle...a husky and a poodle...The breeder claims the dog will have the intelligence of a poodle, the ability to be hypoallergenic like a poodle, but have the energy of a husky...

You DON'T know that!! The dog could have the energy of a poodle and the fur of a husky, you have no clue what will happen, and neither does the breeder.

It makes me so sad that you would rather fall for the tricks of a cute designer dog, when there are dogs that probably look exactly the same sitting in the shelter because someone like you, bought one from a breeder, who knows, maybe the same breeder, learned it wasn't what they wanted, and brought it to the pound.

It happens ALL the time.

Just because they say the dogs are healthy doesn't mean they are, they have not had their eyes checked, anything checked. You could very well be getting a genetically deformed puppy that could cost you thousands of dollars in vet bills, it happens.

I'm not trying to sway you, because you are going to get one anyways. Your going to contribute to the over population of cute little fluffy dogs in this world, and add to the countless deaths in the shelters. It's the same as buying from a puppy mill, the more people buy, the more puppies are produced, the more puppies bought without knowledge, the more cute little fluffy teddy bears ending up getting put to sleep.

*I suggest after you get your dog, you take a walk into your local shelter and see what you could have gotten, what you could have saved.*


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## pamperedpups (Dec 7, 2006)

jatom - I suggest you ask the same questions of this breeder that you would if you were investing in a purebred Poodle, Shih Tzu or Bichon Frise. One of the most important questions needing to be answered should be what sorts of health testing (not "vet checks") the breeder's dogs have completed? Know that some tests must be redone as the dog ages. 

Research what it means and why it is important to purchase a puppy sired by (OFA, CERF, vWD, etc.) tested parents for each breed in this mix. You'll want to see actual COPIES of the paperwork, not just take the breeder's word for results given. Please don't buy into the "hybrid vigor" nonsense; a poor hip and cataracts dog bred to luxating patellas b*tch isn't likely to produce a healthy pup no matter WHAT breeds are being mixed together. Sure, some of the breeder's likely untested dogs may look and act healthy at advanced ages and they probably know some dogs from generations back that are seem healthy, but a fine looking puppy with Von Willebrands could die on the operation table when it's time to spay or neuter. 

A good breeder will not only guarantee against such devastating outcomes, but will test as much as possible to prevent them. No one wants to pay for cataract surgery or a hip replacement or knee surgery for their young dog. Really give this some thought, take your time and check out the following sites, taking note of the other questions you ask of your breeder, as well as what questions a responsible breeder should ask of you:

http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/breederref.htm
http://americanshihtzuclub.org/breeder_guidlines
http://www.bichon.org/InfoDirectory.htm
http://www.bichonhealth.org

Of course you don't have to get a purebred puppy from tested lines, but if you're going to gamble on an untested mix there are plenty out there that could be had without your having to financially support an irresponsible breeder. There are MANY purebreds other than Poodles that would not only be cute, but shed minimally (hypoallergenic only means LESS likely to cause a reaction) and as purebreds would be more predictably trainable, sociable, cuddly but fun and quiet with work (which all puppies will require). As for length of hair, Shih Tzus, Bichons AND Poodles all have hair that will grow as long as you let it, and so will these Teddybear pups. With that in mind you may want to rethink a purebred Shih Tzu or Bichon, or consider something like the Maltese, Havanese, Yorkshire Terriers, Lhasa Apsos, Miniature Schnauzers, Powderpuff Chinese Crested, etc.

This is a Havanese:










These are Powderpuff Chinese Cresteds with faces shaved short (they can be grown out long if you wish) and one of them also has tipped (shaved) ears:


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## jatom (Dec 29, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Morally I cannot support or respect the decision to buy such a dog..
> 
> Contribute further to shelter overpopulation. Its your perogative...but people like you make the jobs of people like me that much harder everytime one of these mutts is bought and then dumped for not being what the breeder promised....
> 
> so Im done.


I am not quite sure that is fair to assume that my wife and I are going to dump the dog at the pound a month after we receive it. 

What is moral for one is not the same as for others. For instance, some feel it is cruel to eat meat. While others feel it is not. And still others feel it is cruel to eat meat, yet wear $300 designer leather boots with a $600 matching leather purse. So, I guess I don't fall on the side of owning a mixed designer dog as immoral. I guess I am bad. Sorry.



Pepper said:


> You have NO clue if the dog will be good around people, not hyper, not sluggish, minimum barking, minimum shedding, hypoallergenic, you just don't get it.
> 
> Take this is an example, say a new designer breed comes out, it is a huskoodle...a husky and a poodle...The breeder claims the dog will have the intelligence of a poodle, the ability to be hypoallergenic like a poodle, but have the energy of a husky...
> 
> ...


Do you have any suggestions of breeds that would be more likely to exhibit those characteristics?


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## xoxluvablexox (Apr 10, 2007)

jatom said:


> That's a good idea. Yes...the "cuteness factor" is one part. But also, we want a dog that is easy to train, 7 to 15 pounds, good around people (including kids), not too hyper/but not a slug either, minimum barking, hypoallergenic, minimum shedding, and soft and cuddly. We've both had poodles and are looking for something different. The purebred ShihTzu is interesting, but the coat gets really long. And ideas?


Well with a mutt you don't know what your going to get. So start doing some research on purebred dogs. Here's a list of hyperallergenic dogs:

Basenji 
Bedlington Terrier 
Bichon Frise 
Chinese Crested 
Coton de Tulear 
Havanese 
Irish Water Spaniel 
Kerry Blue Terrier 
Maltese 
Poodle 
Portuguese Water Dog 
Puli (Pulik) 
Schnauzer 
Shih Tzu 
Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier 
Xoloitzcuintli 
Yorkshire Terrier 

-http://dogs.about.com/od/dogbreeds/qt/hypoallergenic.htm

So I would start with reading about those breeds and see which ones you think would be the best for you.


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

You can get Shih tzu's groomed down short, or however you want.

Bichon Frise 
Cairn Terrier
Chinese Crested 
Havanese
Italian Greyhound 
Maltese
Norfolk Terrier 
Norwich Terrier
Poodle (Toy & Miniature) 
Schnauzer (Miniature)
Tibetan Terrier 
Welsh Terrier
West Highland White Terrier
Yorkshire Terrier

All of those are minimal shedding, or hypoallergenic.
And would do fine with runs around a yard, a daily walk, and some training.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

Shih Tzu kept in a puppy cut is your perfect dog.

http://www.americanshihtzuclub.org/questions_to_ask_breeder

http://www.americanshihtzuclub.org/breeder_referral

Here's everything you need.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

jatom said:


> That's a good idea. Yes...the "cuteness factor" is one part. But also, we want a dog that is easy to train, 7 to 15 pounds, good around people (including kids), not too hyper/but not a slug either, minimum barking, hypoallergenic, minimum shedding, and soft and cuddly. We've both had poodles and are looking for something different. The purebred ShihTzu is interesting, but the coat gets really long. And ideas?


You can keep a Shih Tzu's coat cut short, just like you can with a poodle or bichon. They all need regular grooming and clipping.

I personally really like Bichon Frises, I know a few people who have them. Their dogs have really nice temperaments, are good with people and kids (because they were purchased from good breeders who select for temperament and physical health, were well socialized and trained).

Buying a dog from this place makes it more likely you will get a dog with an unsound temperament and health problems. Not positive, but more likely, than if you go to a good breeder of a purebred dog. Heck, you can even find better breeders of "designer dogs" who at least health test the parents for the diseases common in their breeds.

You will want to know if these people test their stock for/if any of these show up in their lines:

Addisons, Castric Dilatation-Volvulus (bloat), Hepatitis, Cushings, Epilepsy, Hip displasia, hypothyroidism, Patellar Luxation, Optic Nerve Hypoplasia, Sebaceous Adenitis, Von Willebrand's disease

Stenotic nares, Cleft palate, Renal Cortical Hypoplasia, Cherry eye, Inter vertebral disc disease

Allergies, Immotile Cilia Syndrome, any skin disorders, is there a high incidence of kidney and/or bladder stones

Is cancer a common problem in their lines? How many puppies have temperament problems? Do they have references (from vets, puppy buyers, other breeders)? Do they belong to any dog clubs, do they attend seminars about genetics and health? Are they up to date about the common problems of their breed (in this case all 3 breeds they have chosen to combine)? 

A good breeder would know all of this about their lines. They would have their dogs tested for the common diseases afflicting their breed and would know the general temperament their lines produce. They would know the individual puppies very well by the time you were to take it home. Many small dog breeders keep their puppies until they are 10 to 12 weeks old as they tend to be more fragile and do much better with a bit longer socialization with mom and siblings.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

jatom said:


> I am not quite sure that is fair to assume that my wife and I are going to dump the dog at the pound a month after we receive it.
> 
> What is moral for one is not the same as for others. For instance, some feel it is cruel to eat meat. While others feel it is not. And still others feel it is cruel to eat meat, yet wear $300 designer leather boots with a $600 matching leather purse. So, I guess I don't fall on the side of owning a mixed designer dog as immoral. I guess I am bad. Sorry.


Im not saying that you will nessecarily dump the dog in a shelter..

But if you buy from such a breeder with no health test and false advertising charging more money for an untested untrialed mutt than most would expect to pay for a pet quality purebred from good lines...

than you are keeping that unscrupulous person in business...perpetuating the cycle of false advertising causing people to abandon thei animals in shelters. That's what I have an issue with.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

A purebred Lhasa or Shih Tzu would do the trick. Or a purebred Bichon Frise. A pug, a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel...all good dogs.

Nobody can promise a hypoallergenic dog. It's a buzz word. Not all dog allergies are because of dog dander. People can also be allergic to a dog's saliva!

It is beyond disappointing that you come here asking for help in this matter, and then get annoyed/angry when we don't give you the answer you want to hear. None of us supports the purposeful crossbreeding of dogs unless there is TRUE intent aside from making a "cute" mutt. These dogs do not breed true, and can produce varying characteristics.

You don't even know if the puppy will have a good temperament. There is no temperament testing being done, let alone health testing. Have you looked up the health issues possible in the Shih Tzu and Bichon Frise?

Shih Tzu: 
Patellar Luxation
Stenotic Nares
Cleft Palate
von Willebrand's disease
Umbilical Hernia
Harderian Gland Prolapse (Cherry eye)
Hypothyroidism
Intervertebral Disk Disease
Renal Dysplasia
General Respiratory Problems (due to the brachycephalic head)
Their eyes, which tend to bulge, are highly susceptible to injury, infection, and ulcers
They are highly prone to separation anxiety
They can be very hard to housebreak.

And temperament wise, the Shih Tzu CAN be a very stubborn breed! Try and find a clip from the 2008 National Dog Show that was televised on Thanksgiving! The handler with the Shih Tzu took the dog off the table to do the down and back (a gaiting pattern), and this dog, a dog who has done this HUNDREDS of times, took two steps, laid down...and refused to move another inch! The handler gave the dog some small corrections, the dog got up, took three steps....and laid down again, and basically gave the handler the doggy finger!

Bichon Frise:
"Hypoallergenic" Myth:
While some people with allergies can do well being around Bichons, as well as with some other breeds, there are some people that are still very allergic to Bichons! (http://www.tresors.org/uthnkbic.htm)

http://www.bichonhealth.org/Health.asp <--FANTASTIC resource for Bichon health issues. I suggest you read it, because when you cross two breeds, you don't just get the good from both breeds...you get the bad too. Read up and educate yourself, don't get all defensive just because we're giving you good information you don't want to accept!


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

No health testing results at all on OFA. Take a pass.


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

Here's a link to an article that discusses the fate of some of the designer-dogs. Maybe it will help you understand why so many people have difficulty with the idea of purchasing one. 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/contentbe/dispatch/2007/02/14/20070214-B1-02.html

It seems that many of these dogs are acquired by people based on claims made as to the dogs temperament or care requirements that don't turn out to be true. Given how genetics works, these claims can't be made in good faith about mixed dogs. But what are essentially "best case scenario" temperament claims passed off as "temperament guarantees" are _rampant_ among breeders of designer breeds.

In the end, it is the dogs that suffer: When someone adopts a dog believing it's "Low Energy and hypoallergenic" and it turns out not to be, the pup ends up in a shelter or worse. 

Those of us that have a problem with designer dog purchases are simply looking at the consequence of the practice. Many here work in the shelters that receive these dogs. Many see first hand their suffering, and yes, many come to *hate *that so many consider it acceptable to reward the practice by paying significant sums of money to those engaging in it.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Bearjing, that is an interesting article and it is exactly what we are seeing here in the shelters that I volunteer. I have heard so many time from people looking for the designer dogs that they "do not end up in shelters". I guess it makes them feel better when they purchase their "perfect design". Here we see them in rather large numbers. Many of them do not make it to the adoption floor because of genetic issues. Others do and many are adopted but there are only so many homes for dogs so some do not ever get to find a good home. The whole thing just makes me sad. So many dogs so few good homes.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

jatom said:


> I understand. But I did ask "do you have any experience with this breeder?" Also, "do you know what the characteristics of the dog are?"
> 
> If your answer is no and no to those questions, why even post? Is it to feel self-righteous? I don't know you and I am sure you are nice person, but sometimes we let our passionate opinions and egos get in the way of being helpful.


Jatom, as a responsible dog owner who has waited *more than 3 years for the right puppy from a responsible breeder,* I would not touch this breeder of expensive mutts with a 20 foot pole. I don't need to make the mistake of spending big bucks for a mutt with a fancy name. But, I'll admit that I once made the mistake of purchasing a pup from a pet store long before I knew where those pups came from. It's not a mistake that I made twice. Maybe you're the type person who has to learn things through your own experience. If so, nothing anyone can say will deter you purchasing a $1000 mutt. I just hope for the dog's sake that it turns out as you expect.

As far as what characteristics it will have, read the breed standards for all three breeds at http:www.akc.org/ (or at your country's equivalent to the AKC). If you are lucky, the pup's characteristics will be a crap-shoot mix of those characteristics listed for each breed in the mix. I say "if you're lucky" because this type of breeder who breeds strictly for profit is highly unlikely to worry about whether or not the dogs used even come close to their breed standards or whether or not they are healthy and not carrying any of the genetic diseases or conditions the breeds in question are susceptible to.

Here's an example. A friend of mine decided she wanted a Cockapoo (another designer mix) and bought one from a "breeder" despite my trying to convince her to go through a shelter or rescue group. She was told by the breeder that her pup, which she named Jamie, would not grow to be more than 10 lbs tops. Well, Jamie is actually between 15 and 20 lbs (don't forget the poodle comes in 3 size varieties), which means the breeder either had no idea what s/he was talking about or totally lied in order to sell a pup.


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## Puppy_love_122 (Jul 20, 2007)

jatom said:


> I am not quite sure that is fair to assume that my wife and I are going to dump the dog at the pound a month after we receive it.


Its not _your_ dog would be dying at the pound, its the dog that _could have been_ your dog if you would had chosen to adopt it. No one is saying that you are going to abandon your puppy.



> So, I guess I don't fall on the side of owning a mixed designer dog as immoral.


Its not the act of _owning_ a mixed designer dog that people (myself included) feel is immoral, its the act of _buying_ that puppy from a breeder that is immoral. Many people here own "designer dogs" heck, I even do, my Shadow is a "Shih-poo", but did I get him from a breeder?-no. I got him from the humane society. He and a ton of other puppies (and adults) were there when a puppy mill was shut down.


At least have a look a a few shelters...why not? You have nothing to loose. Ask them if they have any toy breed pups...who knows, maybe you'll meet your new best friend. Also if you adopt you'll be able to pick out which puppy you want based on personality, compatibility and how well you bond. Its also a more memorable experience than picking out a dog online and having it shipped to you like a pair of shoes or a couch.


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## lizalots (Aug 29, 2008)

Where are you located?

What I dislike about that breeder is that she doesn't have pictures of the parents? What do these dogs look like at 3, 4, 5 years old? Sure, they are really cute as little puppies with their teddy bear hair cuts, but what about as an adult with full coat?

I mean, the only parent that I've seen isn't that attractive with such long hair.. doesn't look like a teddy bear to me:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dirtypawstbears/3101047904/

This lady is not a reputable breeder. So why not get a dog with the same BREEDS as she has from a shelter? Here are some cute dogs that are similar that you can get for a portion of the price. I used California as an example.

Look at this guy with such a cute face!!

This one is my favorite that I've seen:
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12663471


Another:
Billy


Here is a poodle and a bichon mix:
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12666021

Another cutie:
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12137068


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

lizalot that first one is so cute. I am NOT into that type of dog. I prefer my dogs in the 100 pound range but the first one totally has my favorite color pattern. I do want a Shih Tzu someday. If I could find one like that near me, who knows?


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## ChrissyBz (Aug 10, 2007)

jatom said:


> That's a good idea. Yes...the "cuteness factor" is one part. But also, we want a dog that is easy to train, 7 to 15 pounds, good around people (including kids), not too hyper/but not a slug either, minimum barking, hypoallergenic, minimum shedding, and soft and cuddly. We've both had poodles and are looking for something different. The purebred ShihTzu is interesting, but the coat gets really long. And ideas?


Try FAO Schwartz. They may have what you're looking for. 


http://www.fao.com/catalog/thumbnail.jsp?parentCategoryId=90&categoryId=267&name=Dogs+&+Cats


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Most puppy buyers don't understand/care about pedigrees, registries, shows, or any of that. I read a good post of how to really get through to someone who doesn't get why people are so hung up on 'certain breeders' and not others... you break it down like this:



> In other words, the traditional puppymill [or BYB] customer is ignorant, and lacks impulse control.
> 
> Ignorant of what?
> *
> ...



Read the rest of the post here. It's primarily dealing with pet shop pups, but many breders websites that claim 'loving, home raised pups' are actually mills lying through their teeth, so the advice is generally the same.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Most puppy buyers don't understand/care about pedigrees, registries, shows, genetics, or any of that. They dont understand why one kind of breeder is 'better' than another, they don't understand what makes up ethical dog breeding at all, or the logic that goes behind honest puppy pricing. Talking to them is generally frustrating, they assume your opinion is some kind of snobbery, cus they can't grasp the logic.

I read a good post of how to really get through to someone who doesn't get why people are so hung up on approving 'certain breeders' and not others... you break it down like this:



> *
> First, the customer is ignorant of what a puppy is worth* -- not "worth" as in "He's my best friend and I wouldn't take any money in the world for him," but *the market value of a comparable pup.*
> 
> One can buy an indifferently-bred Labrador with no registration papers or worthless papermill papers for about a hundred bucks in this market. "AKC registered," about $250.
> ...



Read the rest of the post here. It's primarily dealing with pet shop pups, but many breeder websites that claim 'loving, home raised pups' are actually mills lying through their teeth, so the advice is generally the same.

Educate yourself about what constitutes a valuable dog before you pop down hundreds or thousands of dollars on something that isn't actually worth that much, and that could potentially lead to expensive vet care in the future because the breeders never cared to test for genetic health problems or created health problems due to neglect -- too busy breeding for 'cute' and not taking into the half dozen other factors that truly reputable breeders use to determine what they breed.

In other words, people don't like mix breed breeders because 95% of them don't guarantee genetic health, do not help you with your puppy after you give them your cash, will not take a puppy back if it doesn't work out, do not ensure their dogs are worth being bred by ensuring temperament and soundness, do not strive for dogs that look like what they're supposed to be (just look at many designer dogs of the same name... many individuals don't even look related). *Such people are RIPPING YOU OFF when they charge you hundreds of dollars for their puppies, period.* If you want a mutt, go to a shelter, they're CHEAPER and you're getting the SAME THING -- no genetic health guarantee, unknown parent quality, etc -- but you're not being CHARGED as if you're buying a purebred that HAS those things. 

The shelters are more honest about the market value of their dogs. From a purely materialistic standpoint, it's the most reasonable choice if you want a mix breed dog.


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## terryjeanne (Jul 13, 2007)

jatom said:


> I am asking about this particular breeder and the characteritics of this mix of dog....that is all.



I've learned that you can get two totally different personalities even if the dogs are the same breed. In your case, I don't think you'll know until you get the dog home and start training.

My first sheltie was laid back and lazy. My daughter tried to get him to jump a small obstacle and he laid down refusing to move  He would lay in the front yard and watch the world go by.

The sheltie I have now? Wowzers, lol. She notices everything! She adores agility and barks up a storm when we pull in the parking lot. She doesn't like men, doesn't like strangers in her house, but loves her family 

Her parents weren't like this. The dad was a show dog, loved people and quiet. Mom was friendly and fast. Breezey and her sister were timid.


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## lizalots (Aug 29, 2008)

Inga - I don't like those types of little fluffy dogs either, but with that said, some of the ones I was finding on petfinder were adorable.

Yeah, you tell me the difference (besides price!!) in said breeders puppy: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3008/3083446478_f589668e47.jpg?v=0 and the one I found: http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12663471

They look pretty similar to me.


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## KelliCZ (Aug 1, 2008)

jatom said:


> Do you have any experience with the Dirty Paws TeddyBears breeder? If so, what was it like?
> 
> Also, do you have any insight into the characteristics of this type of mixed breed?
> 
> ...


 
Nope sorry all my animals are from rescues


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## Katzyn (Mar 22, 2007)

You talked about morals, and how eating meat is wrong. Why is supporting someone who doesn't take proper care of his/her dogs and does not make sure your puppy is as healthy as can be, okay? With your loads of money you will be paying for this mixed breed dog, aka "mutt", you will be encouraging her to continue to not take care of his/her animals. With this bad "breeder", you could get a puppy who has genetic health problems that COULD have been tested for, so you would know, but instead, you wouldn't know, and you might lose your beloved pet to some unforseen disease or health problem early on in it's life. Did you know that the mother and father of this puppy could be doing only one thing in life: BREEDING, over, and over, and over. How is that okay, or moral?

You could find a healthier, happier puppy, with happier healthier parents, for probably a cheaper price from a GOOD, responisble breeder, who will do all the goo health testing and make sure that the money you pay will be going towards a good, healthy puppy.

Or even better, you could find the same two breeds in a shelter dog. Then you would be saving a life AND helping to stop bad breeders. 

Please think about what we have all said here. We all love dogs, and we all want to see them happy, and YOU. Would you be happy with a puppy who was cute now, then grew up to be "ugly" and sickened because the breeder was bad?


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

My Sister-In-Law and her husband recently bought a Beagle-Pekinese cross puppy for (are you sitting down?) $2000.00. It was only through intense negotiation that they got the price down from the original $2700.00. It would be so much more efficient to just burn your money in the fireplace--at least you wouldn't have to fight for parking at the mall.

When I see people who have substantial incomes, so eager to be taken for chumps, I have to wonder why I am not a millionaire.


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## HersheyBear (Dec 13, 2008)

I know of someone that got her dog from a person that bought it.. for $2000. It's a "Morkie", a yorkie/maltese mix, and the original purchaser sold it to the current owner for $200.


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## dee7973 (Oct 5, 2007)

JATOM,
You have to understand that you are dealing with many people who have an unconditional love for dogs. Me being one of them. We have opinions, whether liked or not. I am one of those people that feel unless you are going to breed or show a dog, you should save your money for toys and go to a shelter. There are sooooo many dogs in shelters that need caring loving homes. The BYB's are out for money and money only. They could care less if once that dog leave their home you are not pleased with it and you bring it to a shelter. Not only wasting your money but killing that poor puppy for no good reason. Most shelters are kill shelters and if not adopted then they are killed. Do you want that to happen?? If you dont mind then by all means send me your 1000-1500 bucks and I am sure I can find more useful things to do with it, like treat my sick dog who costs me 300 bucks a month to care for!!! So no we are not being hostile just logical!!!


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I'm sorry Jatom, but that site SCREAMS puppy mill! She has *7 pages* of available puppies, takes crdit cards and this statement just makes me laugh!


> *Dirty Paw's Teddybears are excellent first time dog owner dogs. They litter box train in 2 weeks. Your friends and relatives will get sick of you bragging about your Dirty Paw's Teddybear! You will want another!*


Any dog can litter box train in two weeks if you're CONSISTANT about training. Honestly, I think you're better off looking at Shih-Tzu's or Griffon's. The Havanese looks JUST LIKE the Teddy Bears BTW.


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## CerbiesMom (Jan 30, 2008)

I've met a teddy bear, and she was the most hyper dog I've ever seen. I was hired to walk her. We'd walk for an hour, then she's come home and wouldn't stop running in circles. She still had to be crated at 3 years old bc she was too hyper and would chew things, and her owners walked her every day, longer than I did. ANd she did shed, and her teeth were horrible. That's my teddy bear experience.


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## Sharon R. (Jul 7, 2007)

Forgive me for not reading all of the posts. They are all very close to the same and give excellent advice. But to try to answer the OPs actual questions, I looked at the website, and despite the fact that she's breeding mixes, there are lots of red flags.

Most well bred dogs will have stable temperments, she's not doing anything special there. She apparently loves her dogs, but that doesn't excuse anything else. She doesn't say that she's health tested any of her dogs. She also doesn't say that she will take back any puppy that doesn't work out, for any reason, for the rest of that dog's life. All responsible breeders want to know where their dogs are, and don't want to see them wind up homeless.

She is breeding for cuteness. And to make $$.

So this is what to ask her if you decide to call.

1. What health testing has she done on the dogs?
2. What kind of guarantee does she give?
3. Will she take back a puppy that doesn't work out, or if you have to rehome for ANY reason.
4. What is her criteria for selling you a dog?
5. Does she require that her pups be spayed/neutered? By what age?
6. What kind of veterinary care is given to the pups before going to their new home?
7. At what age does she let the pups go to their new home?

I'm sure I can think of a bunch more, but please, if you're willing to spend that kind of money, do some more research and go with a reputable breeder. If you want to give us some characteristics you want in a dog, we can point you in a better direction.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

I have a feeling the OP DID make the call.. he hasn't been around since then and, despite many people telling him those exact things, Sharon R, he refused to listen..


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Um, yeah, this is a 3-year-old thread. Pretty much moot now, as the OP has presumably made a decision already.


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

lovesmypoodles said:


> so are you saying that the breeder is bad and you know that? do you have any information to support the bad rap you are giving this breeder? because if they are good breeders and mixing breeds that doesn't make them any worse than a person breeding pure breds. breeding a mix breed dog doesn't make them a bad breeder. Please clarify


I find the fact that there is no mention of the sires and dams or health testing anywhere on the site to be rather suspect at best. All I can seem to find are links for available puppies. :/ Add the fact that at the least there seems to be a litter born every other month and at times every month and I'll pass. I prefer breeders who strive for quality over quantity.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

This thread had to be dug up. I'm closing it.


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