# Health Scare for Mac Mac!!!!!!



## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

I'd like to share this with you just in case you every have or know someone who goes through this. Sorry, it's kind of long..but worth it. 

Yesterday, I took Mac'n'Roe for a hike at a park (just 10 min) from my house that I just found out about (lots of trails..i'm so psyched). They had a blast. When I got home, I noticed that Mac looked tired and his faced seemed ... um different...although I couldn't put my finger on it. 5 minutes later I realized that he had his mouth open, which he typically doesn't do. He was slobbering more than usual, leaving his mouth open, and his eyes seemed a little droopy. I began to worry a little, but just watched him closely. As the nite progressed, I became increasingly worried. Mac had a trouble eating and his mouth was still open (hours later). I thought perhaps he was having an allergic reaction and just couldn't breathe through his nose..so was breathing through his mouth instead. I called th e-vet..but they couldn't diagnose over the phone. Because he was breathing normally, had eaten, I decided to monitor him through the night and take him to the vet in the morning (there's an e-vet within 10 min. of my house). 

Just before bedtime, I noticed he was drinking...a LOT and leaving a lot of slobber in the bowl. Drooling EVERYWHERE. He slept with me...just in case. I gave him a benadryl in the morning, as things hadn't really improved (except the eyes). 

I took him to the vet this morning. He was breathing fine through the nose..The vet asked me if he had experienced and physical trauma yesterday. I was shocked at this question. No. She felt the lymph nodes..and I'm sure some other things I didn't notice. I was starting to get a little nervous at this point. I thought she was going to say, oh..he's got a cold. Here's some antibiotic.

So, she suggested they take xrays of his jaw/head. Of course, whatever needs to be done  Nothing. So, she suggested taking them to an orthopedist. At this point...I'm flipping out. Of course, whatever we need to do to make him better. I dropped the films to an orthopedic surgeon. and worried all afternoon. 

I got a call around 6 from my vet. The orthopedist didn't find anything (fractures, breaks, dislocations or anything. BUT, he did some research and it just happened that a vet tech of his was actually going through this same thing with her dog. He faxed her a bunch of information (for free it seems) and came up with some different possibilities..but one was especially interesting. It's very rare...and we think it's a disease called *trigeminal neuritis*. Symptoms are a acute onset of the dropped jaw, no pain associated with the condition, trouble eating/drinking..which is what is going on with him. There aren't any known causes, diagnosis would consist of tissue biopsies and a bunch of other stuff that would probably cost me a fortune. The treatment...nothing. It should get better on its own in 1-9 weeks. Hopefully. I'm also going to do some other tests tomorrow just to rule out some other thing as well (tick borne diseases, and something else I can't remember the name of). Just to make sure. 

In the meantime, I have to ensure he gets his nutrients..which may become difficult. I think food should be okay (messy..but doable). Its the hydration I'm worried about. He's trying to drink a LOT... I hand fed him tonight and I've tried administering water with a water bottle and turkey baster. It's messy...but he's trying. I hope he gets better. Soon.

Here's a video of what he looks like...





It's kind of hard to tell in these. I'll try to get some more video/pictures for you guys. Thanks for listening!!!


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Wish I had some great advice for ya 
since I don't I'm sending tons of get well soon vibes to Mac..hope he feels better ASAP


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

Oh WOW! I hate when things happen right after you do something because it always makes you think it was related to what you just did!

I'm so sorry BigMac(hehe) has to go through that! I was thinking, maybe get a sponge, and sponge water into his mouth.. may be a little easier than a turkey baster.

PLEASE keep us updated on his progress. Does he seem to be in any pain? or is it just like reverse lockjaw?


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## salask (Jul 31, 2007)

aawww poor baby - hope he gets better soon... xoxo


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

He doesn't appear to be in any pain. which is good.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

Ah, sweet baby Mac. I wish I had some advice. I'll be thinking about you....


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## Mudra (Nov 1, 2007)

MACCCCCCCCCCCcc baby boyyyyy.. you are gunna get better... tomorrow..  I can feel it..


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

{{{{{{{{{{{HHHHHHUUUUUGGGGGSSSSS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} out to Mac (NRoe to) and you for a quick solution to this problem.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

4dogs3cats said:


> Oh WOW! I hate when things happen right after you do something because it always makes you think it was related to what you just did!
> 
> I'm so sorry BigMac(hehe) has to go through that! I was thinking, maybe get a sponge, and sponge water into his mouth.. may be a little easier than a turkey baster.
> 
> PLEASE keep us updated on his progress. Does he seem to be in any pain? or is it just like reverse lockjaw?


hehe...i know. I definitely thought it was because of the hike...the sponge sounds like a good idea...but don't they have stuff in them..even when they are new??? looks like bottle water is working. Seems a lot like lock jaw..but he just cant close it. no pain. i hope he's better soon. 

Thanks everyone for your support!!!!!


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## BarclaysMom (Aug 24, 2008)

Poor guy! Get well soon!


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## Sugar Daddy Otis (Jan 9, 2008)

Poor Guy--thanks for the update--Otis and Ella send big hugs and kisses and lots of good vibes your way!!! Hoping for a quick recovery!


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## volleyballgk (Jan 15, 2008)

Hope Mac gets to feeling better soon! We'll be thinking of you guys.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

Oh..poor Mac! We hope he gets better soon. There is nothing worse than one of your "furkids" hurt or sick...We'll say a prayer.

Stella, Lucy, Desi and their MOM


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks everyone. 

As for an update. We went to the vet today for a tic panel for Rickettsial vasculitis (lyme disease, rocky mountain spotted fever and one other tick borne disease) and Neospora caninum. These were listed as some potential differential dianoses that were a possibility...although trigeminal neuritis seems the most likely diagnosis..I wanted to rule out any other possibilities. 

Day 2...Mac still has a dropped jaw. I'm hand feeding him, so he's getting in food. Water intake is my main concern. He's thirsty a lot due to the mouth open constantly. And, he's having trouble getting water in I'm sure. I'm using a water bottle..1 liter he usually gets about 1/4 of it down. the rest falls out into the bowl. He's head shy of the turkey baster..I'm going to try a regular syringe and do it that way I think. Ice cubes too should work well.


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

I'm glad to hear that he is still hanging in there.
So the results will be back when? What does the veterinarian say about how long he has until its too much to take? Does he seemed stressed? Poor Mac Mac... You all are in our thoughts!
Nessa


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

You probably have searched the internet for more info, but just in case you didn't see this, I thought maybe this page would be of interest. It is some kind of archived conversation that includes a contribution by a dog owner who's pup had trigeminal neuritis. He mentions some hydration techniques should it be necessary and also discusses steriods as sometimes being of help.

Best to you and your fellow -- I hope he's back to his old self quickly.



http://pet.justanswer.com/vet/yt3t-trigeminal-neuritis


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

chul3l3ies1126 said:


> I'm glad to hear that he is still hanging in there.
> So the results will be back when? What does the veterinarian say about how long he has until its too much to take? Does he seemed stressed? Poor Mac Mac... You all are in our thoughts!
> Nessa


I think one of the tests the results are back in like 48 hours..the other longer. Honestly, I forgot to ask today, as I'm 98% sure its trigeminal neuritis and these were tests to rule out these other possibilities. I forgot to ask..I'll check tomorrow. He doesn't seem too stressed. He doesn't have quite as much energy it seems. Since he's not in pain, there wouldn't really be a 'too much'. Typically it goes away on its own in a few weeks (1-3) and sometimes longer (up to 9 weeks). RARELY it's permanent, but if it is, it can be dealt with. My major concern right now is fluid intake. 



Bearjing said:


> You probably have searched the internet for more info, but just in case you didn't see this, I thought maybe this page would be of interest. It is some kind of archived conversation that includes a contribution by a dog owner who's pup had trigeminal neuritis. He mentions some hydration techniques should it be necessary and also discusses steriods as sometimes being of help.
> 
> Best to you and your fellow -- I hope he's back to his old self quickly.
> 
> ...


Thanks bearjing..I did see this article last night and found it very helpful. We decided not to use the steroid treatment, articles in the veterinarian database say that steroid treatment doesn't 'appear to enhance or shorten recovery'. Plus, Mac has mange and the steroids would compromise his immune system ...not worth it in my opinion . Good points...and just wanted to clarify why we decided not to go in this direction. 

I did express my concern of the water intake...i'm going to watch his hydration level and if we see issues I'll talk with her about administering subcutaneous fluids.


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

Steriods scare me too, and especially if the vet database indicates it doesn't even work... no way!


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## LeRoymydog (Feb 25, 2007)

Gosh, how scary!!! I have no advice, but you have well wishes from Indiana coming your way.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

My thoughts are w/you, Mac Mac and Roe. Hopefully he will get back to normal soon. "Can you feel the luuuvv Mac?"


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Just a quick update...unfortunately there hasn't been any change in his condition. but, his attitude is good. He still doesn't seem to be in any pain and he played with Roe a little today. Just still trying to make sure he gets enough water.


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## Pongiesma (Oct 29, 2008)

Oh no! Here you were trying to help me and you have your own problems. I'm so sorry that happened. Do you know where it stems from? A draft maybe? 

I hope he's better soon!


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

kisses to Mac from the beebees. (bully b*tches)


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks ya'll. 

Pongiesma - not sure the cause. It's a rare disease (29 cases documented in the last 9 years)..in the database. No concrete causes..

still no change in his condition. He still has a dropped jaw..but he definitely doesn't feel well today . No energy...just laying around. He was playing chase with Roe this morning..but this afternoon he's a little lethargic. 

I hope he's okay.


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear this.... thinking of him.....


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Another update. 

I got a call from the vet this evening. She got the results back from the ricksettsial vasculitis blood titers we did on Tuesday (rocky mountain spotted fever, Ehrlichiosis and lyme disease). The Rocky Mountain Spotted and Ehrlichiosis came back negative. The lyme disease titer came back 'borderline'. Not negative, but not conclusive either. It is indicative of a vaccination or onset of the disease....i think that's what she was saying. Basically, we can't rule it out..but she can't really say for sure its there. 

So, she wants me to start Mac on doxycycline (14 days) while we wait for the spontaneous reversal of the trigeminal neuritis..and then if he's not better in two weeks, re-do the Lyme Disease titer to see if we can get a more conclusive result. 

I'm so worried. Need to do some research on Lyme Disease


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

((Hugs)) MnR!! I'm keeping Mac in my thoughts!


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Ah, man, what bummer. I hope he feels better...you said earlier he was acting pretty lethargic. Sending hugs your way...try and get some rest. You can't help him if you are off your game. Take care of you too.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Are you feeding Mac wet dry food or just dry food? If you wet down his food it will help with the water intake.

My poor Mac. Wishes and good thoughts comming your direction...


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Darkmoon said:


> Are you feeding Mac wet dry food or just dry food? If you wet down his food it will help with the water intake.
> 
> My poor Mac. Wishes and good thoughts comming your direction...


I'm still feeding dry food..but wetting it down for ease of eating and to help with water intake. I've found a couple of methods that seem to be working...water bottle and using the hose outside. I BARELY push it in (a water spout thing) so that water drips from the spray nozzle. And I can put it just over his mouth and he drinks from that. I got a syringe last night...I'll see if that works a little better. 

thanks for the suggestions!!!


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## Lorina (Jul 1, 2006)

*hugs* for you and Mac.

If dehydration is a concern, ask your vet about sub cutaneous fluids. They're just given under the skin, and help keep 'em hydrated and with the right balance of electrolytes. Even getting it once a every few days, or even once a week, can help, and your vet may even be able to show you how to do it yourself at home.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Lorina said:


> *hugs* for you and Mac.
> 
> If dehydration is a concern, ask your vet about sub cutaneous fluids. They're just given under the skin, and help keep 'em hydrated and with the right balance of electrolytes. Even getting it once a every few days, or even once a week, can help, and your vet may even be able to show you how to do it yourself at home.


Thank you Lorina. This is definitely on the 'outlook'. So far, he seems hydrated (good elasticity, gums moist..eyes look okay). If I do see any problems as we move forward, this is my first alternative. I appreciate your suggestion!!!


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## MyCharlie (Nov 4, 2007)

Hey MnR, I've been busy and not able to check in much - so sorry to hear about Mac!! Hope he gets better soon. Lots of hugs to all of you from me, Charlie, and Kaya. Thanks for keeping us updated!


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## jcd (Nov 20, 2007)

wowo mnr. i missed this one. how is poor mac doing? i hope well now. what a scare that must have been. best of luck. hope all is well!......jcd


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

jcd said:


> wowo mnr. i missed this one. how is poor mac doing? i hope well now. what a scare that must have been. best of luck. hope all is well!......jcd


Hey JCD...nope still having issues. It just happened last Sunday..so we are on day 5 and he still can't close his mouth. Ugg. They say it may take two weeks...so I'm looking at atleast another week best case scenario.


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## K8IE (Apr 28, 2008)

Poor Mac!!! I will keep him in my prayers and I really hope that he starts to improve soon!! Keep us updated please!


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

Still thinking about yall.... positive thoughts coming your way.


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## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Yikes, poor mac! I hope he recovers well and swiftly.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Hey everybody. Just wanted to give you guys a quick update on Mac's condition. First off, we've seen no change in the jaw. He still has a dropped jaw. I'm still hand feeding and administering his water. Luckily, I found a good technique that works effectively (thanks Mudra) and I can attest he is well hydrated. I've never seen skin elasticity as good as his...

Second, the vet called and left a VM just a little while ago regarding the test results for the bacteria canidum. Negative..which is good. Since I missed her call, we didn't discuss the plan of action moving forward, but I'm sure she has one. I assume the plan is to re-do the lyme titer this week and otherwise..just keep waiting 

Here's some pics of him I took the other day..poor guy.


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

I do hope he gets better soon. I can tell he's getting the best care, and he's beautiful, even if his mouth is always open...


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## Mudra (Nov 1, 2007)

oh my poor mac mac..  Hope you get better soon bud! Me and my boys are gunna be cheering for your recovery!


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh my lord... girl you are so strong! I would have been going completely nuts by now... I dont know how you are doing it.
Nessa


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## tippi (Oct 24, 2008)

((((((((( MAC )))))))))))) GET WELL fastttttttt!!!!
prayers for a speady recovery from the dober gang
roxy, lucciano (aka lucky) and anastasia (aka annie)


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## MyCharlie (Nov 4, 2007)

Pooor Mac Mac. Like Nessa said, I don't know how you are doing it. I would have gone crazy by now! Lots of love coming your way from us!!!


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Thank you for everyone's support!!!!!!!!!!!!! I soooooooooooo wish that i would wake up and his jaw would be closed. 

This is week two...and i'm hoping that we see the spontaneous recovery this week rather than later (documentation says 2-9 weeks). We will continue on the doxycyclin (sp) for the remainder of the two weeks (November 14) (we are on doxy due to the borderline lyme titer). And, we will conduct a second lyme titer approximately 2-3 weeks after the last one was done (sooo November 11-18) to see if we can make a conclusion one way or the other regarding the lyme. 

Otherwise...its just a waiting game.  On the positive side...he seems to be in good spirits still. It helps that mommy is spoiling him. He's getting all his food...plenty of water. We've still been going on walks, playing in the yard, and going about our normal business. I haven't been doing the flirt pole with him...as i don't want to stress him too much. As i don't really know how much (if any) pain he's in..and i don't want him dehydrated. I worked him on the flirt a LITTLE yesterday...he was definitely a little slower than usual..but it seemed like he wanted to play. He was tuckered out quickly though. 

I'll keep ya'll posted.


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## Username (Oct 24, 2008)

hey, im sorry to hear this too.

but it does seem like somthing that is going to pass, because it doesn't seem to be getting worse. know what i mean? it's weird, almost like a paralyzing flu.

i was gonna say, if its trouble getting water and he needs a drink, im sure he wouldnt mind having a hose and getting wet outside, lol.

Im sure he'll be okay.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Username said:


> hey, im sorry to hear this too.
> 
> but it does seem like somthing that is going to pass, because it doesn't seem to be getting worse. know what i mean? it's weird, almost like a paralyzing flu.
> 
> ...


Thanks username!!! I do use the water hose to give him water sometimes...but he and Roe don't really like getting wet like some other dogs, lol. In fact, Roe HATES the water...Mac not so much. I have used the hose atleast once a day for him when I"m outside with them, but it tends to make him choke (breathing in while drinking). But, it's a good method none the less. Thanks!!!!!

So, everybody. I wanted to give you guys a GOOD update!!! This morning, when I was feeding Mac'n'Roe (mac by hand) I thought I noticed Mac's lower jaw moving a little bit. So, I put his bowl down and Mac was able to eat on his own with NO PROBLEMS! It looks like he's gaining movement in his jaw today. It's not fully closed, but he's yawning and moving it a little. It's open, but just barely. So, I'm totally psyched!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yay Mac!

Username, I guess you were right! It looks like it's going to pass!


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

Oh!!! What a relief! You must be in heaven, not to mention that he's probably a bit psyched too! I'm so happy for you and your boy... this is great to hear.


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

YAY!!!!!!
Nessa


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks!!! He's continuing to eat on his own..but I still have to help him with water. I didn't see much of a change between yesterday morning and today..but he's definitely improving. I would gather that the full movement of the jaw will take a little while. I'll keep you posted. 

He seems to ALMOST be able to close the mouth. I'll take a picture this afternoon to show you what I mean. Thanks for everyone's support.


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## secondchance (Sep 9, 2008)

Wow both of your dogs are so gorgeous! What breeds are they?? I really hope things keep improving...best wishes to you and the lovely mac.


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## MyCharlie (Nov 4, 2007)

Woohoo! I'm so happy to hear there is improvement. I'm sure you will take *any* improvement at this point.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

secondchance said:


> Wow both of your dogs are so gorgeous! What breeds are they?? I really hope things keep improving...best wishes to you and the lovely mac.


Thanks secondchance. They are littermates..and they are pure mutts. Best guesses are boxer/lab/pit mix. But, who really knows...they are the best  Roe really looks like she's got some hound in her somewhere...


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Hey everyone. Well, mac has continued to improve..although not 100% quite yet. He was nibbling on my shirt (his play with me) yesterday..so that's promising. He's also began to crunch his treats. So, i'm definitely seeing a lot of improvement. 

Here's a few pics..


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## Bearjing (Oct 24, 2008)

Yay!


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## tippi (Oct 24, 2008)

ahhhhhh!! bless his heart. so handsome too!


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## GroovyGroomer777 (Aug 21, 2008)

Ahhhh looks sooooo much better...that first vid of him with his jaw open just broke my heart. You are a good mommy.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Thats such GREAT news!!!!!!


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## readerchick87 (Oct 23, 2008)

yay for Mac (and you!)


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## KarlKatzke (Oct 15, 2008)

I'm glad to hear he's doing better... I was really worried when I saw this thread. 

One thing that might help if you have a PetSmart nearby -- I noticed in one aisle that they had big syringes w/out needles. They would be MUCH easier to use to get water and food down Mac's throat without him choking than a turkey baster or hose would. You could mix water and dog food in the blender and then suck it up with the big syringe. If you have a good pet/farm store -- or a horse supply store would DEFINITELY have them because that's how they dose horses with wormer -- you might try it. 

Good luck!


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

KarlKatzke said:


> I'm glad to hear he's doing better... I was really worried when I saw this thread.
> 
> One thing that might help if you have a PetSmart nearby -- I noticed in one aisle that they had big syringes w/out needles. They would be MUCH easier to use to get water and food down Mac's throat without him choking than a turkey baster or hose would. You could mix water and dog food in the blender and then suck it up with the big syringe. If you have a good pet/farm store -- or a horse supply store would DEFINITELY have them because that's how they dose horses with wormer -- you might try it.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks KarlKatzke...yes..the large syringe definitely worked better. I started using those several days into it..as the water bottle and hose tended to choke him (breathing in). This worked MUCH better..and he seemed to like it better. He was satiated faster too! Thanks for the input!!!


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## JackiesZoo (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey there...how is Mac doing? I hope he is back to his old self againl.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

HEY JACKiZOO. Gratefully, Mac is BETTER!! He's back to his normal self...his jaw was completely closed for the first time on Sunday night. Since then, I've been letting him drink on his own again (as well as eating)...sooooo I think we are back healthy again for MAC MAC.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

That's a happy ending


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

YAY MAC MAC!!!! I am so happy for him and you!

Isnt it funny how things always last a lot shorter than they tell you?

They told me Kodys warts would last 5 months, they were gone in 1 lol


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## readerchick87 (Oct 23, 2008)

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

many hugs to you, I almost danced in joy!


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## StarfishSaving (Nov 7, 2008)

SO happy to hear the news!!!


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

Same here very happy to hear the great news!
Nessa


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## JackiesZoo (Jan 25, 2008)

That is GREAT news and I am sooo happy to hear it! 

One can learn sooo much on forums huh? I never heard of something like this happening to dogs. Give MacMac a bit hug from me please.


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## Mudra (Nov 1, 2007)

yayyyyy mac mac!!!! I am so happy to hear about our boy recovering really well!!!!  thanks for the update!


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks EVERYBODY!!!!! Mac is doing great. The vet still wants to do one more test next week to determine if his recovery is the 'spontaneous' recovery of trigeminal neuritis or if he indeed does have lyme disease and the antiobiotics are helping clear up this neurological symptom. I'll let you guys know the final determination!!!


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

So Happy!!


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## Hound (May 20, 2009)

The initial symptom of a continuously dropped jaw that is not caused by breathing troubles shows that it is caused by another factor, on top of which is muscle tension. This is definitely in line with the vet’s diagnosis of trigeminal neuritis. The problem with this illness is that the cause is yet to be discovered. The best you can do for your dog is to give him complete assistance especially when doing important activities such as eating and drinking. Take him to the vet, who will teach you how to properly move your dog’s jaw as exercise.


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## dogexpert (Nov 14, 2009)

I hope your dog feel better soon. It takes time to heal!!!!


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