# Spray bottle correction?



## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

When I took my dog to a training class, the trainer was demonstrating how to use a water spray bottle to correct behaviors. Without asking us, he came over and squirted my dog in the face. When we asked that he please not do that to our dog, he seemed miffed and went on a rant about how this method of correction "isn't meant to create fear."

Any opinions on this method of correction? My grandfather was always against it because he didn't want his dogs to be afraid of a spray bottle if he needed to use one when grooming before a show. Any thoughts on the effectiveness/wisdom of this practice?


----------



## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

Analytical Ada said:


> When I took my dog to a training class, the trainer was demonstrating how to use a water spray bottle to correct behaviors. Without asking us, he came over and squirted my dog in the face. When we asked that he please not do that to our dog, he seemed miffed and went on a rant about how this method of correction "isn't meant to create fear."
> 
> Any opinions on this method of correction? My grandfather was always against it because he didn't want his dogs to be afraid of a spray bottle if he needed to use one when grooming before a show. Any thoughts on the effectiveness/wisdom of this practice?


If the dog doesn't like it, then yes it can cause fear. But also they learn real fast when you have the bottle and when you don't, so they don't actually learn not to do the behaviour, they just learn that the spray bottle sprays them.

My dog loves the spray bottle and begs to be sprayed, actually will find the bottle and bring it to me, if I ignore her, she tried to spray herself. So not really a punishment for some dogs but a treat.


Either way that trainer sounds bad and I would dump him/her fast


----------



## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

Flaming said:


> If the dog doesn't like it, then yes it can cause fear. But also they learn real fast when you have the bottle and when you don't, so they don't actually learn not to do the behaviour, they just learn that the spray bottle sprays them.
> 
> My dog loves the spray bottle and begs to be sprayed, actually will find the bottle and bring it to me, if I ignore her, she tried to spray herself. So not really a punishment for some dogs but a treat.
> 
> ...


Considering how much she loves water, I could see her enjoying a spray bottle (not in her eyes), too.

We actually did stop going after that class - kinda wanted to see if I was being ridiculous about that. We asked to see if we could sign up for a different basic obedience class...but he teaches all of them. I'll just have to drive a bit further to go to a different facility that I've had good experience with in the past.


----------



## Losech (Apr 5, 2011)

It's way silly. All my dogs love water and spraying two of them in the face is fun. The third doesn't think so and will bite you. Not a good idea IMO.
My neighbor's dog is walked by a friend of hers, and recently Toby has decided he doesn't want to walk. So, Ted sprays Toby when he won't go, while tugging on the leash saying "Lets go Toby, lets go." Toby's resistance has gotten worse since Ted had began to spray him.


----------



## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

spray bottle correction if the dog doesnt like it is AVERSIVE training and can cause fear. besides spray bottle corrections ONLY work when you are holding the bottle. that trainer needs to update his training methods. I would find a trainer that KNOWS the difference between actual positive re-enforcement training and training disguised in a way to make humans think its not really a bad thing.


----------



## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

It's pretty rude to correct someone's dog without asking the owner if it's ok. I was told by a very experienced instructor that when demoing anything on someone else's dog, you ask first. And if you're going to use corrections, you tell them specifically that you may have to use corrections, and ask them if that's ok.


----------



## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

I also want to add that I Know of a couple that has a dog a little hyper but mostly well adjusted friendly and like most hyper dogs prone to bouncing around and running around from person to person in a social situation like a goup of people standing around talking. You pull out a spray bottle and the little dog turns into a shaking timid nervous ball of fur that wont move except to recoil from you if you approach it. tell me that dog isn't terrified of the bottle. the bottle goes away and the dog quickly returns to a happy little dog. 

Next class walk in and spray the trainer in the face with the spray bottle when he gets angry and starts to pitch a fit ask him how he would expect a dog to feel any different about getting sprayed in the face, then get your money back and go find a new trainer.
ANY trainer that gets "angry" or shows frustration with either the animal or owners is not worth a penny because every dog trainer worth their salt KNOWS that anger and frustration shuts dogs down fast and reduces the chances of you getting responses from your dogs.


----------



## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

sharpei said:


> Next class walk in and spray the trainer in the face with the spray bottle when he gets angry and starts to pitch a fit ask him how he would expect a dog to feel any different about getting sprayed in the face, then get your money back and go find a new trainer.
> ANY trainer that gets "angry" or shows frustration with either the animal or owners is not worth a penny because every dog trainer worth their salt KNOWS that anger and frustration shuts dogs down fast and reduces the chances of you getting responses from your dogs.


Ha, I like this idea! Sadly, the facility told us that they couldn't give us our money back, but they could apply the amount to another class. I guess I'll do the basics elsewhere and then come back and do agility or flyball with a different trainer to get my money's worth. I'm glad to know that I wasn't overreacting about the issue.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I would have flipped out on the instructor. I've spent 3 YEARS working to get my dog to be okay with and even enjoy water (to the point of splashing in a kiddie pool or wading in a lake) after he fell through the ice of a frozen lake. Spraying him in the face with a water bottle could undo all of that. 

For a dog that isn't scared of water, it can most certainly create a fear of water spray which is a royal pain in the butt when it comes to bathing a dog or even walking a dog in the rain. 

While I am not against correctly used aversives under some circumstances (I do use a prong for certain situations but properly fitted and never on a puppy for example), I am very much against the use of any aversive without the express permission of the dog's owner.


----------



## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

Shell said:


> I would have flipped out on the instructor. I've spent 3 YEARS working to get my dog to be okay with and even enjoy water (to the point of splashing in a kiddie pool or wading in a lake) after he fell through the ice of a frozen lake. Spraying him in the face with a water bottle could undo all of that.
> 
> For a dog that isn't scared of water, it can most certainly create a fear of water spray which is a royal pain in the butt when it comes to bathing a dog or even walking a dog in the rain.
> 
> While I am not against correctly used aversives under some circumstances (I do use a prong for certain situations but properly fitted and never on a puppy for example), I am very much against the use of any aversive without the express permission of the dog's owner.


My dogs, Shar pei, are notoriously not fond of water at all. One of them, Otis, as a pup was with us when we went to my aunts camp on the lake having never seen open water before had no clue what it was. we as owners were clueless as to the fact he wouldnt know not to try and "step" out on it. we walked out on the dock and he walked out with us and kept going right out off the end. still to this day several years later you cannot get him to walk out on a dock. the worst part of him falling off was not him falling in but when he went under his struggles to get up in the water pulled him under the dock. where we couldnt reach him. I actually had to jump in fully clothed and go under the dock and pull him out from under it and get him out of the water. I dont blame him but that was a horrible experience for the puppy and he despises water in anything larger than a dog bowl. If the trainer had used water, a very serious issue for my dog, as a punishment without asking I would have tweaked. 

especially since it seems your dog wasn't actually doing anything "bad" at the time to even warrant punishment. Why on earth would any trainer use ANY form of punishment on a dog that was'nt actually doing anything wrong. the more I think about it the more ignorant of training basics the instructor seems in my mind.


----------



## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

Eek!!!! I would probably throw that trainer down "judo" style... kidding. Don't want to get sued.

Another of my neighbours also tells me to spray Roman for corrections with a Spitz of lime/ lemon juice... my goodness!!! They have private trainer that comes weekly to train their dogs!!! I sure won't use that trainer!! 
Yikes!

Roman we just found out is a water dog (Not typical GP) yesterday!
Swam with labs.... so yah..water bottles won't work with him... instead of fear, he'd probably think its just mommy playing or trying to cool him down in the heat.

Repercussions does not work on Roman as well...
We had the pet-safe white pepper spray to deter chewing on the carpet... guess what??? It causes Roman to attack it with more gusto at 5 months old... more holes than before ( like Roman is protecting mommy from spice bad carpet)... so never again!!!
Now he leaves the carpet alone ( ice chew for his teeth).
Same with prong... he rejected that rather quickly... without it, he walks like a champ.

He takes well to tons of praises and good food though...
And yah, you can actually sorta reason with Roman and that works too.


----------



## Monsteroyd (Sep 18, 2012)

Spraying a dog in the face with water is positive punishment, as others have said. Find another trainer. I cannot stress how much better a +R/-P trainer is over any trainer that uses +P/-R. Look at K9 nose work, you aren't allowed to even talk to your dog, let alone correct them. 

Monty


----------



## Analytical Ada (Apr 23, 2013)

hueyeats said:


> Another of my neighbours also tells me to spray Roman for corrections with a Spitz of lime/ lemon juice... my goodness!!! They have private trainer that comes weekly to train their dogs!!! I sure won't use that trainer!!
> Yikes!
> 
> .


Lemon juice?! I'm sure that would be just great for my dog's black coat - the things people come up with. 

We did try one of those air cans that makes a loud noise once. Ada just looked at me like "Hmm, what an interesting sound" and went right back to doing whatever it was that she wasn't supposed to be doing. Needless to say, I didn't use that again.


----------



## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Analytical Ada said:


> Lemon juice?! I'm sure that would be just great for my dog's black coat - the things people come up with.
> 
> We did try one of those air cans that makes a loud noise once. Ada just looked at me like "Hmm, what an interesting sound" and went right back to doing whatever it was that she wasn't supposed to be doing. Needless to say, I didn't use that again.


And fab for his poor eyes!

I honestly think water to the face is the one and only correction Kabota would ignore. He doesn't have any issues with rain and the groomer says he's fine while being bathed. But why take the chance? He gets a little stinky after 5-6 weeks and his feet have to be trimmed, so what would I do if I made him scared of water? Treats are just so much safer.


----------

