# Puppy going BACKWARDS in potty training



## stellagifford (Sep 25, 2007)

Hi there,

I have a 7 month old Pomeranian whose potty habits are getting worse by the day. I really need help!

Awhile ago my husband and I took a little vacation and left him at our vet's office. he was, at the time, using potty training pads and doing pretty well with them, but while we were gone our vet trained him to go outside and when we got back he did amazing going potty outside! Unfortunately, over the past month he's progressed badly, and he poops/pees in his room (we keep him {via puppy gate} in a bathroom all day just in case) *multiple times during the day and night*. I don't understand, because we have not changed any habits (feeding times, times we take him out to potty, etc) but he is just getting worse. When he goes outside I praise him a lot to reinforce the good habits. 

I am at the end of my rope with this pup. I love him to death but if we can't find a solution to get him back on track then he's going to have to find another home. I thought about diapers but I'm sure he'd just rip them off, and even if he didn't his hair is so long I'd probably end up bathing him multiple times a day anyway - which wouldn't be any better than our current situation.

*Please help me*. I love my dog, but I just can't stand having to pick up after him twice a day (or more), especially after knowing that he did so well for a few months!


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## fxman (Aug 25, 2007)

Have you tried using a crate? There is too much room for him go and get away from it. I'm sure he was contained at the vet until it was time to go out.
HTH


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## sheltiem0m (Sep 24, 2007)

If I were you I would probably rule out a UTI before anything else.


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## stellagifford (Sep 25, 2007)

sheltiem0m said:


> If I were you I would probably rule out a UTI before anything else.


He's not having trouble with pee as much as poo. At first I thought it was because he just liked to EAT it (gross!), but we muzzle him up so that he can't do that anymore and he still goes. 

I am going to look into getting a crate. But if anyone has any other tips, please let me know. I love this little guy and I can't bare the thought of having to get rid of him, but I'm going to have to to save my sanity if he doesn't clean up his act.


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## sheltiem0m (Sep 24, 2007)

Is he getting plenty of exercise and mental stimulation? You are acting like this situation is his fault and it's not. If something is wrong with your dog then you need do whatever it takes to fix it. You made a commitment to this animal and to hear you talk about abandoning him is just plain disturbing. 

I would still have the dog checked over by the vet to see if there was a physical reason for the dog suddenly losing control over its bodily functions. Dogs don't just stop holding their bowels for no reason. There is either a physical reason behind it or a behavorial reason.....both of which are your responsibility to fix. Please stop talking about deserting your pup when he hasn't done anything wrong. 

I agree with the suggestion to try crating. If that doesn't fix the problem (and you have ruled out a physical reason with a vet) then please consult a behavorist.


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## stellagifford (Sep 25, 2007)

Well there is no need to be rude on here. I'm simply asking for any known reasons that a dog would do fine for a few months on potty training and then all of a sudden stop. As I said, we have not changed our behavior towards him. I *do not want to get rid of my dog*, but he is seriously stressing me out with his actions.

I don't have a ton of money to bring him to a behaviorist, dog psychic, etc. which is why I'm seeking help on here. The dog is in his room while we're at work and at night (we tried leaving him out at night but he kept pooping on the floor, so now he is back in his room). I love him and want him to be out and part of the family, but I can't tolerate picking up after messes every day when I know he's capable of being a good pup!

Please don't reply to this if you're going to be rude. There's just no need for that. I'm looking for some help on a situation. If you can't offer it, dont' reply.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

I can see this getting very confusing......

I'd also recommend trying a crate. When he was trained to the pads, he really wasn't trained to hold it, just to go in a certain spot. At the vets he was most likely crated or kenneled when he wasn't outside. Most dogs won't go unless they can move away from it. Now that he is home, he doesn't have the pads anymore, but he is not used to holding it outside of a crate. 

Also, I would not muzzle him just to stop the poo eating, and I would never leave a muzzle on unattended.

Good luck.


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## sheltiem0m (Sep 24, 2007)

Actually I didn't think that response was rude at all. I was seriously restraining myself. And you were talking, twice, about possibly getting rid of your dog. I find that very upsetting and voiced that in a non-confrontational manner. If you are truly here for help then please stop talking about getting rid of your dog because those two things are incompatible.

Crate training is great because it takes advantage of a dog's natural instinct not to mess where it sleeps. However you have to do a few things to make this work properly. First you must get a crate (and if necessary insert a divider) to make sure it is only large enough for the dog to stand up and tightly turn around. Then you must teach your dog that the crate is a happy place to be. Give your dog his meals in his crate and teach him that going into the crate equals getting a treat. 

Give your dog more physical and mental exercise. Perhaps your dog is suffering from separation anxiety which can cause him to get upset and pee/poop when he wouldn't normally. Try giving him a piece of clothing with your scent to curl up with in his crate. Also give him a kong or other puzzle toy stuffed with treats to work his mind when you leave. 

How many times a day is your dog pooping? It sounds like a lot. Perhaps you could try transitioning to a food with less grain so that there is less filler and consequently less poop. 

Lastly, a dog behaviorist is nothing like a dog pyshic (whatever the heck that really is). Dog behaviorist generally have multiple degrees in varying areas of animal behavior/psychology and have spend literally over 500 hours training animals. They are able to pick up on subtle cues/signals that your dog may be giving and suggest solutions specifically for your pup. Message boards are great for ideas...but unfortunately you can't get truly individualized help on them. That can only come from someone observing your dog.


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## stellagifford (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks for the info. A tip on some "netiquette": I was just trying to show how seriously distressed I am over the situation so please don't lecture me about the way I expressed my emotions, especially over something so trivial as the Internet. You have no idea about how I feel about the situation so it's best to assume neutral, and thus avoid conflict.

I will try the crate. I also do give him toys during the day, and he has a bed which he sleeps in. I wouldn't be so cruel as to put him in a room with nothing all day and expect him to not act out on that - I'm not stupid. I realize that he needs stimulation and exercise and I give him both by playing with him when I'm home and letting him outside.

Also, I wasn't comparing a dog psychic to a behaviorist - again I was simply conveying the message that I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend on the dog. Sorry but I just see that as a waste of money, especially when there is so much free help online. I love my dog but I can't be taking hundreds of dollars every month to spend on him. I'm sure any pet owner who realizes the value of a heard earned dollar can sympathize with that.

The dog went to the bathroom (poo) twice last night, and I'm sure he'll pee and poop in his room today while I'm out. He is taken out three times a day (at least) and poops all three times. He is fed Purina food, 1/3 cu 2ce a day, once when I wake up and once when I get home. Does this not sound like a lot of output for such little input? haha. He also does not eat anything else, and I usually remove his water at 8:30 before we all go to sleep. 

I guess my point is, if it sounds to you like he just needs to be out more, then I may be out of luck. ...hopefully I can find a crate that wont' cost me a fortune.

Thanks


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

The size crate you would need for a pom will probably run about 50 bucks. I think it's well worth it. I just bought a 30" crate today at Petsmart for $59, I'm thinking you would need one size smaller. You could also check on craigslist and freecycle for crates.

Also, it does sound to me like alot of poo for the amount of food. Is he finishing the food when you give it to him, or are you leaving it out?


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## stellagifford (Sep 25, 2007)

The little guy usually finishes his food in about 10 minutes after I put it down. His poos are not small... I feed him Purina as I've been told it is the best, and has the least amount of fillers in it. 

I try to get my husband not to feed him snacks after 7:30 in case that is adding to the cause... If he does get a snack its not a big one, and only one. Not sure where my little guy is getting all the stuff to make this much poo!


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

It's probably the food. Food with corn and grains as the first ingredients go right through em', at least that's how my boys breeder explained it to me. Unfortunately grocery stores and petsmart don't carry the best foods. I found I had to go to the feed store or order online. Hop over to the food forum and you'll find out more than you ever wanted to know about dog food.  It could also just be your dog though....my 17 pounder has the biggest poops I've ever seen. Blech.


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## sheltiem0m (Sep 24, 2007)

Talking about getting rid of your dog does not equal emotion. It equals reality and death for thousands of dogs across the nation. I see people every day give up perfectly good dogs for the reasons you mentioned and while we do our best to find good homes for these dogs, unfortunately a large number of them have to be euthanized. There are just too many owner surrenders and not enough people willing to give homes to these animals. 55% of dogs surrendered to U.S. shelters are euthanized.

I can understand and empathize with you being upset and frustrated. Puppies and dogs are very hard work at times. I just don’t think it’s appropriate to joke about getting rid of an animal for this kind of behavior when I see so many killed every week because of the same reasons you mentioned. I’m sorry you have taken so much offense at this, but hopefully you can see where I found your statements offensive. I do truly wish the best for your pup as I do for all dogs. 

When my dog was an adolescent she went through a phase of separation anxiety. Normal toys just didn’t do it for her. We had to find interactive things like Kongs, Buster cubes, etc… to keep her attention. I was not suggesting you were leaving your dog without toys (so don’t be so defensive)…I was merely conveying that sometimes normal toys don’t seem to do the job. I found this out through tough experiences myself.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Have you asked the vet what he did to get the pup to consistently go outdoors??? 

I know from personal experience, and from knowing a person who has raised Poms for YEARS that the breed is not the best at learning proper bathroom etiquette...so this behavior is often 'normal' for them. The progress, then digress, then progress...etc. You can be doing everything right too, and sometimes they just go back the other way. 

My suggestion is to get rid of those training pads...those are the WORST for dogs who just don't catch on to potty etiquette; start crate training him instead. Make sure to get a kennel that his just his size; no extra room to really move, just sleep. And make sure to be consistent in getting him out to go potty. No free time in the house, either unless he goes to the bathroom outdoors. My guess is that this is what your vet did, and that is why he came back the way he did; but when he had the 'piddle pads' in front of him again, he got 'lazy' again.


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## stellagifford (Sep 25, 2007)

Haha. Well, I'll check out crates tonight. Funny, I see you have a dog named Frosty - that's my little pup's name too!

I didn't think it was that common! Such a goofy name 

Thanks again.


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## LoveLilly (Oct 25, 2006)

Potty training can be very frustrating. It sounds like you take him out enough times during the day, I think .....I remember you saying 3 times a day. Is that 3 times total from morning till bed time or is that during the day. I ask b/c a pom is a small dog and my papillon requires more than 3 times a day b/c they just cannot hold it that long. Also, I thought I read about all the pooping multiple times a day. It sounds like he is pooping an awful lot. One time when I switched Lilly's food it was too rich for her and she pooped 5 times in one day and I knew something was wrong. She did it all outside, but still that was ALOT & she was around 6 months when this happened. I reduced the amount and we were back at 2 maybe 3 poops. I am wondering if you are feeding her something to rich for her tummy or too much. I saw you mention Purina. Purina does have some lines of food that are better quality than their other lines but in general it does have alot of fillers and fillers are not absorbed thus causing additional poop.....I experienced this with Lilly. You mentioned the muzzle so he would not eat the poop. A muzzle is supposed to be a temporary use item. I am worried that him wearing it all day will interfere with playing or ability to pant to keep cool. Another item to think about is I would have been furious if my vet changed my training method --- just food for thought as this I am sure confused the little guy.

Once you get the crate establish a solid routine and your dog will respond. Its possible that the bathroom gives him too much room from play/nap area to where he poops which is an easy thing to do with a little dog until they understand that the whole house is their den.

I definitely would talk to your vet about the frequent poops.....it really seems like ALOT, regardless of in the house or not.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

stellagifford said:


> Haha. Well, I'll check out crates tonight. Funny, I see you have a dog named Frosty - that's my little pup's name too!
> 
> I didn't think it was that common! Such a goofy name
> 
> Thanks again.


The really goofy thing is, my dog's not even white.


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## stellagifford (Sep 25, 2007)

Crating definately sounds more like the best option to me, hearing it from multiple people. The bathroom he is in is not large, he does not have room to run but can definately walk around and "space out" where he might go, sleep, eat, etc. Also, I have *not* used potty pads since he stayed with the vet (months ago). My vet highly recommends Purina, so maybe I'll have to check out other brands that dont have corn etc as the first ingredients. And on the vet switching up his potty routines - it was a blessing! I could not get him to go outside and it was *so great* to have him stay with someone else while he got potty trained. It might not have been the best way to do it, but it was so stress-free for me, and he learned very quick. My vet's office is full of very loving, kind people who took such good care of Frosty.

Also, I just want to state for the record that I would _not_ just drop an animal off at a shelter. I fully believe that a pet is part of a family and if you have to find a new home for them, you do exactly that. I think of Frosty as part of my family and I would look out for him and find him a good home with a loving family that can provide him what I can't, if I had to. *Hopefully I won't ever have to do that though!*

I'm not a mean-spirited person. I'm part of PETA, I care about animals. I don't think that there was anything wrong with me saying that maybe he needs a new home if I can't give him what he needs. I'm sure that almost every pet owner has experienced these feelings before.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

I think that everyone of us has come to a point of knowing that a pet is not going to fit into our family for one reason or another; often due to circumstances out of our control. And rehoming responsibly is not wrong. Its those owners that don't take the time to find an ideal situation for their pets that is not right...


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