# Might be getting a YOUNG puppy, looking for advice...



## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Hello! Our puppy's mama got hit by a car and passed away, so the dog's owner has been taking care of them. The owner told me that the puppies are eating soft food and they are weaned so she was going to have everyone pick them up early. I asked her to wait until the end of the month so it'd be easier work wise for me.. Also I figured it'd be better for the puppy to wait until then. She isn't a breeder, her dog got pregnant so that's what these puppy's are from. The litter was born on June 22nd, so they're still pretty little.
I know puppies need to stay with the litter until 6-8 weeks but it looks like that isn't going to happen. She is struggling to take care of them without the mama puppy. It's such a sad situation and I definitely still want the puppy. I've had dogs & puppy's my whole life but she'll be the first I'm raising on my own.
I know I'll get flamed for not using a breeder, but oh well.. just looking for advice on what to do with her to ensure she'll still be healthy and happy. My girlfriend thinks we should tell her we don't want the puppy anymore, she's worried she won't survive. 
I already know I'll crate train & I plan on getting one of the "heartbeat" stuffed dogs since I've heard they help with the early separation stages..
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

Never a requirement at DF community that you have to have a breeder, registered dog... having the opportunity to allow the pup to stay long in a (good / productive environment with it's dam and litter mates) sure that is the best situation *when it's an available option* When life is real that is the situation you deal with...

a puppy that age is going to sleep and eat and poop at that age. They are susceptible to getting chilled from drafts for not being further developed to keep themselves warm that could shut down their organs. smaller meals more often make sure they not getting dehydrated since going to a bowl of water isn't mastered at that time. Mainly sleep letting their bodies grow.. ..


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Thank you for understanding!! I posted a similar thread elsewhere and all I got was "you should always get puppies from trusted breeders," "they'd never let this happen," etc etc.. I'd love to be able to spend $1,000+ on a puppy, but in my eyes I'd rather put as much money as possible to the side for future vet costs, etc and I'd rather them not end up in a shelter or worse.. 

I was planning on getting this snuggle toy to help with the loss of mama/litter. And I have a heated blanket that I was thinking I could drape around the top of the crate, and maybe a puppy sweater or something to help with the cold issues?

Our main concerns are definitely overall health, so I plan to take her to the vet ASAP to make sure she's okay. My girlfriend thinks we should back out and not get her, I'm so torn on this and I honestly don't know what to do. I think she's adorable, and I love the breed mixes (mini schnauzer & terrier mix), and I've been set on her for a few weeks now. I'm pretty stubborn overall and usually once I make my mind up, it's hard for me to get out of it.

I appreciate your help so far! Would you still get the puppy if you were in a similar situation?


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Here's the puppy!! Picture she sent me earlier this week


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Are you paying for this puppy? Basically, if this is a "free to a good home" type situation then I'd say just focus on what you need to do to keep the puppy healthy and provide safe socialization. If you are paying more than a nominal cost for the pup, then I would consider the ethics of supporting someone who is letting pups go away from the litter very very early. Even without the mama dog there, the litter provides a lot of benefits.

Talk to you vet about parvo risks in your area along with asking about the recently spreading canine flu that is hitting some areas hard. When you take the pup into the vet, do not let the pup touch the floor nor any surface not recently sterilized with bleach/appropriate sanitizing product. In high risk areas, I would go so far as to not visit any pet stores, busy parks and generally any area with a lot of strange dogs even without the pup (pup definitely should not be in those areas). 

I wouldn't use a sweater or jacket, because the pup cannot move to a cooler place if getting too warm plus baby puppies tend to chew everything which is a risk. I don't know what the temperatures are like where you are now but at least for most of North America, its pretty darn warm for the next month+ so a heated blanket seems way too much even for a tiny puppy. The rescue I foster with has lots of 6-8 week old pups right now (tis the season for shelters to fill up with pups, grrr) and none of the foster homes are using any additional heat source for pups at that age, although they are still either with their litter or in pairs for continued social interaction until s/n and adoption time. 

Lots of supervision is going to be key.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Shell said:


> Are you paying for this puppy? Basically, if this is a "free to a good home" type situation then I'd say just focus on what you need to do to keep the puppy healthy and provide safe socialization. If you are paying more than a nominal cost for the pup, then I would consider the ethics of supporting someone who is letting pups go away from the litter very very early. Even without the mama dog there, the litter provides a lot of benefits.
> 
> Talk to you vet about parvo risks in your area along with asking about the recently spreading canine flu that is hitting some areas hard. When you take the pup into the vet, do not let the pup touch the floor nor any surface not recently sterilized with bleach/appropriate sanitizing product. In high risk areas, I would go so far as to not visit any pet stores, busy parks and generally any area with a lot of strange dogs even without the pup (pup definitely should not be in those areas).
> 
> ...


She was asking $200 for the puppies. I'm definitely leaning more towards the no side of it, but it's so hard and I feel attached already. She said the other owners are picking up their pups next weekend. I honestly, don't know what to say to the owner to back out of it. I know she's struggling with them, especially with losing her mama dog as well. Sigh, of course it can never be easy  lol. Optimally I wanted to adopt from a shelter, but the local shelters foster their puppies & don't have many smaller-medium breed dogs. And we don't meet the local rescues/fosters requirements and I've been really set on getting a puppy. My girlfriend's Chihuahua is not neutered, and they do not want to get him neutered now with him being older and having a heart murmur 

We live in TN, so it is definitely HOT here, but we keep our house in the 70s, and keep our fans running, that's the main reason I was thinking about using the heated blanket!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

jumper_jax said:


> She was asking $200 for the puppies. I'm definitely leaning more towards the no side of it, but it's so hard and I feel attached already. She said the other owners are picking up their pups next weekend. I honestly, don't know what to say to the owner to back out of it. I know she's struggling with them, especially with losing her mama dog as well. Sigh, of course it can never be easy  lol. Optimally I wanted to adopt from a shelter, but the local shelters foster their puppies & don't have many smaller-medium breed dogs. And we don't meet the local rescues/fosters requirements and I've been really set on getting a puppy. My girlfriend's Chihuahua is not neutered, and they do not want to get him neutered now with him being older and having a heart murmur
> 
> We live in TN, so it is definitely HOT here, but we keep our house in the 70s, and keep our fans running, that's the main reason I was thinking about using the heated blanket!


I paid 200.00 for my purpose bred mutt - who came with vet records and vet care (repeated visits, up to date vaccination and worming), had been WELL socialized to dogs, cats, livestock, people, vets, children, are taken on field trips and had a good start on housetraining - at 9 weeks old, and from very known and tracked lines with relatives I got to meet and see work. 

I bought a retired dog from a show/sports breeder for 125.00 - he not only came from health tested lines, he came trained and had been health tested himself. It's not like something was wrong with him, either - he'd finished his Ch. He was 5 but I've also seen 4 months old placed if they have minor conformation flaws (ie: A little under or oversized or what have you)

25.00 got me a puppy at 7 weeks old from the oops litter of a show breeder, that came with - well not much but she'd been to the vet and had vet records (for 2 visits/more than the cost of the puppy), and her mother was health tested and half of her lineage was tracked and known.

I'm from Virginia. 

I mean just to put into perspective what you *aren't* getting for your money - even without spending a thousand dollars or going through rescue. 

That said, my middle dog came home at 4 weeks old - we actually found her in a commercial dumpster. She was eating, drinking, and eliminating on her own. Fleas and disease were the major considerations and concerns. She was crated with a toy, fed about 6 times a day, had to go outside to potty every 15 minutes, and didn't sleep more than 2 hours at a time during the night for about a month, but she's fine now. 

Though this little one being less than a month old? You're signing on for real potential heartbreak and definitely, definitely a lot of money and work. You've got at least 1, probably 2 more vet visits than you'd otherwise have, you're going to spend more on food and milk replacer, the puppy's going to be more open to disease, you're going to be losing a lot of sleep. I really do get the attachment, and I'd be inclined to go for it too. 

But I would not pay two hundred dollars for the privilege.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

CptJack said:


> I paid 200.00 for my purpose bred mutt - who came with vet records and vet care (repeated visits, up to date vaccination and worming), had been WELL socialized to dogs, cats, people, vets, children, are taken on field trips and had a good start on housetraining - at 9 weeks old, and from very known and tracked lines with relatives I got to meet and see work.
> 
> I'm from Virginia.
> 
> ...


Yeah I've been thinking a lot about that too. I'm thinking I might tell her with the circumstances and additional costs with getting her early, that I won't be able to give her the $200, and might offer her $50-100. I know she's taking them to her vet tomorrow to start the deworming process, and I'd obviously want to give her enough to cover that & the food she's got them on. I appreciate the advice, thank you


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

jumper_jax said:


> Yeah I've been thinking a lot about that too. I'm thinking I might tell her with the circumstances and additional costs with getting her early, that I won't be able to give her the $200, and might offer her $50-100. I know she's taking them to her vet tomorrow to start the deworming process, and I'd obviously want to give her enough to cover that & the food she's got them on. I appreciate the advice, thank you


This is honestly what I would be inclined to do. You are assuming quite a bit of cost, that she gets to no longer have. Asking for that to be considered is just good sense - and very reasonable.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Great cost context from CptJack.

To add--
Puppies from the rescue I work with are $250. Age appropriate vaccines, microchipped, fixed (not gonna debate pediatric s/n, but adopting out intact pits around here would be a bad thing), one month health insurance and have been in foster homes getting adjusted to crates and leashes etc.

Having a medical reason not to neuter the old dog should be OK with a shelter and at least some rescues. Might have to look further afield.

For this pup, given the extra risks, $50 max IMO

I paid $1.50 for my adult male dog fully vaccinated and fixed and house trained. I paid $1.00 for my adult female fully vaccinated fixed and house trained. Adult dogs can be an awesome option to consider


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## Tollerowner (Jul 5, 2011)

jumper_jax said:


> She was asking $200 for the puppies. I'm definitely leaning more towards the no side of it,


I wouldn't consider doing it. If it was a situation where you were taking the pup to help him out of a difficult situation and you had the free time... But it would be crazy to pay him for it.


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## Lillith (Feb 16, 2016)

I agree with CptJack. That sounds like an outrageous amount of money to pay for a month old puppy that's from an oops litter. It will take a ton of work to raise a puppy that young, and you could be looking at some behavioral issues because the puppy has been taken from it's litter too early.


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## Sydneyrocky (Jul 16, 2017)

Another thought, if you decide not to get the puppy check to see if a rescue will take them, if a mother dog is able to get out and be hit by a car I would be concerned about the safety of the puppies.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

No, I would not support more than a $50 re-homing fee for this situation. In some states it is illegal to let puppies go that young (8 weeks minimum). If that's the case in yours I would probably report her.

I really hate it when people would rather make $200 a puppy then give them up to a rescue or something where they could stay together longer and get the care they really need.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> I really hate it when people would rather make $200 a puppy then give them up to a rescue or something where they could stay together longer and get the care they really need.


Yeah, there's not much justification except 'I want the money' for not getting the puppies into a foster home (not a shelter, shelter would be terrible because of their age and lack of immunity and the labor intensiveness of it). I know a lot of the options aren't well known, but even seeing if one of the people on the waiting list would be willing to take the WHOLE LITTER would be better for them overall.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Also, AFAIK, not having fostered or bred a litter but knowing several people who have-- its normal that around 4-5 weeks the mom dog starts to be less involved in the care of the pups and it falls more onto the human. Yes, the mom still interacts with the pups but basically someone should be expecting to start to have more duties for pup patrol at that time. It is probably emotionally overwhelming for her to care for the pups having lost her dog to an unexpected death, but it isn't different in practicality than a regular litter. From my fostering friends, they are pretty much taking over by 6 weeks and the mama dog is like "Hey, gonna go lounge out here in the sun, see ya!" but the litter is interacting and playing and exploring together and definitely learning.


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## ForTheLoveOfDogs (Jun 3, 2007)

Around here, when local rescues see listings of puppies too young trying to be "re-homed" because of a -usually- tragic reason they often flat out offer to take the whole litter. It is crazy how often the person refuses to give up the litter and wants to re-home them all by themselves. Sigh.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:


> Around here, when local rescues see listings of puppies too young trying to be "re-homed" because of a -usually- tragic reason they often flat out offer to take the whole litter. It is crazy how often the person refuses to give up the litter and wants to re-home them all by themselves. Sigh.


Yeah, it's just so hard of a situation for sure. The mama dog just died this past week, but she had listed to puppies the week they were born, so they weren't listed in the tragic situation. And I know she's got owners lined up already and doesn't want to disappoint them. 

I'm going to call my vet today and see what their advice is, and then I'm going to ask her if she'll take less for the puppy. Anyone have advice on how to approach that conversation? I can be a little socially awkward at times and I want to make sure I don't say anything to offend her. 

Attached a picture of the puppy as of last night.


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## Alisa♥ (Mar 9, 2017)

jumper_jax said:


> [...]I'm going to call my vet today and see what their advice is, and then I'm going to ask her if she'll take less for the puppy. Anyone have advice on how to approach that conversation? I can be a little socially awkward at times and I want to make sure I don't say anything to offend her. [...]


Go ahead and ask the vet when you call today for an estimate for the next two visits (I'm guessing those are the ones that would have originally been covered if your pup had stayed until 8 weeks). Then, when you talk to the seller, you can say "Since I'm bringing the puppy home so early, I'm wondering if you could help mitigate the $XXX.XX cost for the health and wellness visits with a discount of $XXX.XX for the puppy's price?" It will show that you've done your research, and you will likely be asking for a price break that is less than the cost of the vet visits, which should help your case.

I know in my personal experience, it's between $150-$200 per vet visit, whether it's a wellness visit or a drop-in when Prinna caught kennel cough. I have no idea if this is typical in your area, though. When these puppies are young, there are always vaccines, deworming, preventatives etc. to drive the price up.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

jumper_jax said:


> I know I'll get flamed for not using a breeder, but oh well..


One of ours came from a backyard breeder in Missouri. One from a shelter. One from an oops litter and an overwhelmed owner. One was a foster that never left. None of our four came from a reputable breeder. So, no flames here. 

On the other hand, if I had the opportunity to talk to an owner who failed to spay her dog or protect her from pregnancy, then failed to keep her out of traffic and then asked $200 each for her mistakes, there would be flames aplenty.

You do whatever you have to do, but if you pay $200 for an underage oops pup, she may just decide, the next time she needs some cash, to get another intact bitch and make more oops litters. Cover actual costs - yes - but don't make it profitable.


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## TGKvr (Apr 29, 2015)

$200 for an oops puppy is just flat out ridiculous, and especially when being asked to take him (her?) so early. How did the mom die? I think I'd want to know the reasons before committing. There is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to take that pup regardless of circumstances, but it sounds like this person is money grabbing vs. truly trying to care for and find good homes for these pups. It just sounds a little shady. That said, the puppy is adorable and I understand the desire - if not you, then who? You know? 

As for the $$ conversation I think I'd approach it much as Alisa suggests - something to the effect of "When we discussed prices earlier, that was on the assumption that the pups were going to be fully weaned and vaccinated and a standard 8 weeks old, at minimum. Now that the situation has changed, it's going to take a lot more time, money, and effort on my part to properly care for this puppy, and that should be compensated accordingly by negotiating on the cost of re-homing".


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## Tollerowner (Jul 5, 2011)

Alisa♥;5158690 said:


> I know in my personal experience, it's between $150-$200 per vet visit, whether it's a wellness visit or a drop-in when Prinna caught kennel cough. I have no idea if this is typical in your area, though. When these puppies are young, there are always vaccines, deworming, preventatives etc. to drive the price up.


You are going the wrong place! Our puppies first comprehensive visit was $85 and a second visit to get a lyme vaccine was $45. Both included a months worth of heart worm and tick medicine.


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## Alisa♥ (Mar 9, 2017)

Yikes! I'll admit I didn't price shop, but that's a big difference! I did opt to order flea/tick preventative and Heartguard online, because I just assumed it would be expensive through the vet...probably a good call! :laugh:

I'm glad that now we can dial back to annual visits. Those first few months are rough!


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Vet prices vary considerably by region. Here the exam itself is +-$80, and I know lot sof places in the US it's less than half that.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Alisa♥;5158690 said:


> Go ahead and ask the vet when you call today for an estimate for the next two visits (I'm guessing those are the ones that would have originally been covered if your pup had stayed until 8 weeks). Then, when you talk to the seller, you can say "Since I'm bringing the puppy home so early, I'm wondering if you could help mitigate the $XXX.XX cost for the health and wellness visits with a discount of $XXX.XX for the puppy's price?" It will show that you've done your research, and you will likely be asking for a price break that is less than the cost of the vet visits, which should help your case.
> 
> I know in my personal experience, it's between $150-$200 per vet visit, whether it's a wellness visit or a drop-in when Prinna caught kennel cough. I have no idea if this is typical in your area, though. When these puppies are young, there are always vaccines, deworming, preventatives etc. to drive the price up.





TGKvr said:


> $200 for an oops puppy is just flat out ridiculous, and especially when being asked to take him (her?) so early. How did the mom die? I think I'd want to know the reasons before committing. There is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to take that pup regardless of circumstances, but it sounds like this person is money grabbing vs. truly trying to care for and find good homes for these pups. It just sounds a little shady. That said, the puppy is adorable and I understand the desire - if not you, then who? You know?
> 
> As for the $$ conversation I think I'd approach it much as Alisa suggests - something to the effect of "When we discussed prices earlier, that was on the assumption that the pups were going to be fully weaned and vaccinated and a standard 8 weeks old, at minimum. Now that the situation has changed, it's going to take a lot more time, money, and effort on my part to properly care for this puppy, and that should be compensated accordingly by negotiating on the cost of re-homing".


Thanks for the advice!! I really appreciate it. Everyone here seems so nice, and I'm really glad I found you all  Luckily, my vet has a puppy package that's $99 and includes their shots & visits, so that should help a lot. I'm waiting on the vet to call me back to answer my questions then I'll text the owner and ask her about the costs, etc. She _seems_ nice and like she cares a lot about the puppies, so hopefully she will be understanding. $200 didn't seem so bad when I was expecting to get her at an appropriate age with her first set of shots, but now I definitely think that is way too much. 

I told my girlfriend that we will wait and see what the vet suggests and if she will accept a lower amount, if she doesn't then we will back out.


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Tollerowner said:


> You are going the wrong place! Our puppies first comprehensive visit was $85 and a second visit to get a lyme vaccine was $45. Both included a months worth of heart worm and tick medicine.


Vet care costs vary vastly by geographic location. An exam fee in my area is $75 alone. Titan's first vet visit (wellness check, dewormer, skin scrape for a minor rash and round of vaccines) was $225. And as another example, the estimate I was given for his neuter and gastropexy was $2,200.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Okay, I talked to my vet and she was very reassuring with everything. She said that with the mama pup being gone that it will have more of an effect on the puppy than leaving the litter early, but that puppies are *much* better at adapting to these situations than kittens are. She seemed pretty optimistic of the situation in general, so that definitely made me feel better.

I messaged the owner and said "Since I;m bringing the puppy home so early, I'm wondering if you could help mitigate the costs for the extra vet visits & vaccines by discounting the $200 price some? Bringing her home earlier than expected, I don't have as much saved as I would have in a few weeks & with the extra vaccines she'll need it'll be a little harder on me financially"

Just waiting on her to reply to me.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

"Discounting the $200 price" sounds like 10% off. 

I sense that you really want this puppy and are willing to pay way too much for it.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

RonE said:


> "Discounting the $200 price" sounds like 10% off.
> 
> I sense that you really want this puppy and are willing to pay way too much for it.


I asked her if she would be willing to take $100 and she agreed that was fair with the extra vet visits I'll need. I originally told her I would need until next week sometime to get the puppy, but the other puppies are leaving this weekend and I didn't want her to be alone for so long so I told her I can pick her up on Sunday evening when I get off work.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

I guess my NEW question, now that I've decided on the puppy, is what do I need to buy?! I already have a playpen, so luckily I don't need that. I know I'll need a crate as well though, and a bed as well as a collar. I know I was planning on a kong, but what are some other good toys for little puppies? I'm going to get the heartbeat/warming cuddle toy. What kind of food should I get? I'm going to take her to the vet hopefully the day after I get her, and I know they'll have recommendations on food, but what would be a good starting point? The current owner said she's been giving them some kind of canned food and they haven't gotten sick on it but I'm not sure if that is a good food for her to be on. Should I get a can of the food she's giving them and wait to check with the vet?


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

The pup is going to be what, 4 weeks? when you get him? As long as he's doing okay on the food she's giving them, I'd keep him on it for now. 

Definitely do a vet visit ASAP. Let them know you are bringing in an unvaccinated baby, and make sure that you see them disinfect anything you put him down on. Also, keep him wrapped in a towel or blankie, and avoid setting him directly on surfaces, if you can. 

Setting up a litter tray might be a good idea (I know of several people who did that with their litters) to help get ahead on house training. You can start introducing a crate soon after bringing him home, but don't expect him to start crate training until he's got a bit more bladder and bowel control.

Introduce him to different surfaces and the like. 

I'd probably go with a cat collar for now, just to get him used to wearing one.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

LeoRose said:


> The pup is going to be what, 4 weeks? when you get him? As long as he's doing okay on the food she's giving them, I'd keep him on it for now.
> 
> Definitely do a vet visit ASAP. Let them know you are bringing in an unvaccinated baby, and make sure that you see them disinfect anything you put him down on. Also, keep him wrapped in a towel or blankie, and avoid setting him directly on surfaces, if you can.
> 
> ...


Thank you!! Should I have her sleep in the crate still and just put puppy pads in there as well? My original plan (if I got her at 8weeks) was going to be have her sleep in the crate at night but during the day put the crate in a playpen with the crate door open (while I'm at work) with a puppy pad in the playpen for her to use. Do you think I should do that starting out during the night as well?


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

I wouldn't put pads in the crate. You don't want her getting the idea that she's supposed to eliminate in the crate. I'd use the pen, putting some bedding in the crate and a litter tray at the opposite end.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

LeoRose said:


> I wouldn't put pads in the crate. You don't want her getting the idea that she's supposed to eliminate in the crate. I'd use the pen, putting some bedding in the crate and a litter tray at the opposite end.


This.

And also spend the first month basically in 'keep the puppy alive' mode. Don't try to get too complicated with anything. Introduce some toys and experiences and things (scents, things to explore) but mostly just treat her like a tiny infant and expect a lot of eating, sleeping, and eliminating and don't try to get fancy with it.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

CptJack said:


> This.
> 
> And also spend the first month basically in 'keep the puppy alive' mode. Don't try to get too complicated with anything. Introduce some toys and experiences and things (scents, things to explore) but mostly just treat her like a tiny infant and expect a lot of eating, sleeping, and eliminating and don't try to get fancy with it.


This makes sense. I think I'm more paranoid and worried since she's going to be so young. My mom said to keep our current dog (Chihuahua) from coming too close and to keep them separated by the playpen/crate since he could bring something in from outside to make her sick. Now all I can think of is her getting sick and something happening to her


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

jumper_jax said:


> This makes sense. I think I'm more paranoid and worried since she's going to be so young. My mom said to keep our current dog (Chihuahua) from coming too close and to keep them separated by the playpen/crate since he could bring something in from outside to make her sick. Now all I can think of is her getting sick and something happening to her


Pup is probably not more vulnerable to disease because of her age, but she will be vulnerable (she got colostrum which is the important stuff). She will be more likely to die if she gets it. 

Iif there's something to be tracked in your dog and *your shoes* or hands can all bring it in. Stuff's prevalent in the environment. There is close to no way to avoid tracking it home and if your current dog is going to bring something in she's already tracked it on your furniture, your floors, and all over the place so it's basically a battle not worth fighting on that one. Just don't go to dog heavy places like dog parks or petstores with her for a while, and otherwise stick close to communication and seeing your vet and try to breathe, relax, and just be gentle to the little thing. 

And if it's reassuring at all:



















My 4 weeker did fine and she was literally found being eaten by fleas in a fast food dumpster.


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## FatherOfFlo (Jul 14, 2017)

*On the other hand, if I had the opportunity to talk to an owner who failed to spay her dog or protect her from pregnancy, then failed to keep her out of traffic and then asked $200 each for her mistakes, there would be flames aplenty.*

^This x1000000. 

Seriously, I understand you are attached to this pup from watching him grow up and you want to be a caring parent to this pup but honestly, $200 for 4 week old (not even) pups that have no shots no nothing that haven't even been on canine milk supplement I mean it's just ridiculous IMO.

This is obviously an irresponsible dog owner who is asking an unreasonable amount of money and has done nothing to merit that amount of money.

I recently adopted a 1 1/2 year old adult dog. I'd never adopted an adult dog before, just puppies. It is wonderful. She came knowing sit, stay, heel, paw, was potty trained, had her shots, and is a wonderful creature that has warmed my heart. 

Consider all your options and remember that, in Ontario (and most places), $200 and change can get you a vaccinated microchipped puppy that has been raised properly. JM2C.

Have a look around local shelters, kijiji, various rescues, etc. Consider all your options.

I feel sorry for these pups and their mother.

EDIT: ok read the whole thread. I see you are getting the dog. best of luck to both of you  <3


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

CptJack said:


> Pup is probably not more vulnerable to disease because of her age, but she will be vulnerable (she got colostrum which is the important stuff). She will be more likely to die if she gets it.
> 
> Iif there's something to be tracked in your dog and *your shoes* or hands can all bring it in. Stuff's prevalent in the environment. There is close to no way to avoid tracking it home and if your current dog is going to bring something in she's already tracked it on your furniture, your floors, and all over the place so it's basically a battle not worth fighting on that one. Just don't go to dog heavy places like dog parks or petstores with her for a while, and otherwise stick close to communication and seeing your vet and try to breathe, relax, and just be gentle to the little thing.
> 
> ...


Definitely helps!! Thank you I do feel a lot better after talking to the vet yesterday (actually talked to two, and they both told me the same thing). better to be over prepared than under I suppose  You have a beautiful pup!!!


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Couple of follow up questions!
Looks like we will actually be getting her tomorrow night (yikes!!).. 
We picked up some of the canned wet food the owner was feeding them, should we also get some dry kibble to mix with it? If so what are decent brands that are also not insanely priced? We should feed her how much? I think I read somewhere 4 times a day at this age, any idea on how much she should be eating though? 1 cup of food a day? More?

Thanks again everyone!


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## russhw (Feb 5, 2017)

you said you talked to the vet i am surprised they didn't recommend mother's milk replacement and some canned food at 4 weeks the milk teeth will be just coming in i had an abandoned pup that was 4 weeks old and had no information on her and had to start from scratch we had her at the vet the day we got her its work but she turned out the be a great dog i had three ferrets at the time and they took her in as their own they actually litterbox trained her by 6 weeks lol


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

jumper_jax said:


> Couple of follow up questions!
> Looks like we will actually be getting her tomorrow night (yikes!!)..
> We picked up some of the canned wet food the owner was feeding them, should we also get some dry kibble to mix with it? If so what are decent brands that are also not insanely priced? We should feed her how much? I think I read somewhere 4 times a day at this age, any idea on how much she should be eating though? 1 cup of food a day? More?
> 
> Thanks again everyone!


I'd hold off on the kibble for now. Once you are ready to introduce kibble, you'll want to soak it to where it's soft. One of my "go-too" good foods that is easy on the wallet is Tractor Supply Co.'s 4Health brand, but that's really only helpful if you have a store close by. 

She'll be needing to eat at least four, preferably five or six, times a day. As for how much to feed, that's kind of subjective. Start with giving how much she's been getting. If she scarfs it sown in a few minutes, and is looking for more, give her more. If she eats until she's full, and leaves a lot, give her a bit less the next time. 

Good luck.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

LeoRose said:


> I'd hold off on the kibble for now. Once you are ready to introduce kibble, you'll want to soak it to where it's soft. One of my "go-too" good foods that is easy on the wallet is Tractor Supply Co.'s 4Health brand, but that's really only helpful if you have a store close by.
> 
> She'll be needing to eat at least four, preferably five or six, times a day. As for how much to feed, that's kind of subjective. Start with giving how much she's been getting. If she scarfs it sown in a few minutes, and is looking for more, give her more. If she eats until she's full, and leaves a lot, give her a bit less the next time.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you! I picked up some puppy milk replacer at petsmart, going to mix it with her food just to be safe. Your feeding tips are definitely helpful!!


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

Oh, one more thing. It you decide to use the microwave to heat up any canned food or formula that's been refrigerated, zap for a couple of seconds, make sure you thoroughly stir everything, and test it on your forearm to make sure it's not too hot, like you would for a human baby. The stirring bit is important, since microwaved food tends to heat unevenly.


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## Sydneyrocky (Jul 16, 2017)

I checked and Tractor Supply Company is available on line and they have the 4 Health Puppy dry food in several choices/sizes so if you do not have a store near you they will ship to you. Sizes start at 5 lbs, which would be applicable to start.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Just got home with baby Winnie, she's super sweet and pretty calm. Gave her a quick mini bath and now she's snoozing away.


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## FatherOfFlo (Jul 14, 2017)

jumper_jax said:


> Just got home with baby Winnie, she's super sweet and pretty calm. Gave her a quick mini bath and now she's snoozing away.


Im not sure I'd bathe a dog that young due to a damp dog being a cold dog. You need to keep that pup very warm. They're very fragile when that young.
I wish you the best of luck.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

FatherOfFlo said:


> jumper_jax said:
> 
> 
> > Just got home with baby Winnie, she's super sweet and pretty calm. Gave her a quick mini bath and now she's snoozing away.
> ...


I guess I should've specified more, was dampened with a little baby soap on a wash cloth and dried very quickly. We have a lot of blankies so she can get warm and also a warm snuggle puppy with a warmer in it.

She's doing great so far. Had a little dinner and poo' d and peed. Doing a lot of napping and cute yawning


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Bonus sleeping Winnie with her snuggle pet


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## Sydneyrocky (Jul 16, 2017)

Fantastic, glad she is home and doing well!!


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## LeoRose (Aug 20, 2015)

jumper_jax said:


> I guess I should've specified more, was dampened with a little baby soap on a wash cloth and dried very quickly. We have a lot of blankies so she can get warm and also a warm snuggle puppy with a warmer in it.
> 
> She's doing great so far. Had a little dinner and poo' d and peed. Doing a lot of napping and cute yawning


I think your best bet is, if she needs to be cleaned up a bit, it just warm water on a washcloth, with no shampoo. The reason being, shampoo needs to be completely rinsed off (the general rule of baths is "rinse until you think you got all the shampoo out, then rinse again"), as any left behind can irritate the skin, and cause itchiness. .


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Sydneyrocky said:


> Fantastic, glad she is home and doing well!!


Me too!! She is so sweet. She actually slept very well last night. Whimpered a couple of times in her sleep, but nothing crazy. I think her snuggle toy is a huge help. We were kept up by our other dog whining and crying because he wants to get to her. He was a good puppysitter, whined every time she moved & got up (lol), but lord was he annoying. Might have to find a better solution for him tonight. We have been extra protective not letting him lick her or get too close, at least until we see the Vet on Monday. 

When he woke us at 2am (when she was pretty actively walking around her little pen) we noticed that she peed TWICE on her little potty pad. I was honestly so shocked that she understood it that quickly!! She used it on her own this morning too. So far is she is acclimating pretty well


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

LeoRose said:


> I think your best bet is, if she needs to be cleaned up a bit, it just warm water on a washcloth, with no shampoo. The reason being, shampoo needs to be completely rinsed off (the general rule of baths is "rinse until you think you got all the shampoo out, then rinse again"), as any left behind can irritate the skin, and cause itchiness. .


Makes sense, we only used a little soap and did rinse her really well. She was pretty stinky & had a good bit of dandruff so I think it helped her quite a bit, and we dried her really well (she dried pretty fast too). I think I'm going to pick up some baby wipes to help when she gets all messy from her food. (she goes paws deep - literally)


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)




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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Personally I would have been very uncomfortable helping that "breeder" make a profit off dogs she did that neglectful a job with. I hope all goes well with your little guy, and I do understand getting attached once you've seen and considered the pup, but in future please seek out more ethical sources of pets, huh?


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## Sydneyrocky (Jul 16, 2017)

Good news on the first night; excellent with the piddle pad use!! Dandruff, hummmmm; mention that to the vet Monday too. Enjoy the little new addition.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

parus said:


> Personally I would have been very uncomfortable helping that "breeder" make a profit off dogs she did that neglectful a job with. I hope all goes well with your little guy, and I do understand getting attached once you've seen and considered the pup, but in future please seek out more ethical sources of pets, huh?


Honestly, I feel much better after meeting her. She was a sweet girl, and pretty young. She lives out in the country, so I'm sure it was 100% an oops situation and she just wasn't equipped well to handle it. We don't live in the best area, and there are a lot of terrible people around here, so I definitely understand having a higher re-homing fee to weed out the bad ones. I doubt we will be getting another pupper for awhile, but I will use what I've learned during this process. 



Sydneyrocky said:


> Good news on the first night; excellent with the piddle pad use!! Dandruff, hummmmm; mention that to the vet Monday too. Enjoy the little new addition.


Thank you! I was very proud of her  I will definitely mention this to the vet. I have a list of things to talk to her about - lol! She has been much better since the bath though!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

parus said:


> Personally I would have been very uncomfortable helping that "breeder" make a profit off dogs she did that neglectful a job with. I hope all goes well with your little guy, and I do understand getting attached once you've seen and considered the pup, but in future please seek out more ethical sources of pets, huh?


This isn't really to the OP at this point, but my suggestion for people who are interested in a pup from an oops litter but not wanting to financially encourage such oops litters is either to offer to pay directly to a vet clinic for the mama dog's spay or in a case like this, to make a donation to the local humane society in exchange for the pup. It "proves" that someone isn't just out for a free puppy to flip for profit but also avoids lining the "breeder's" pocket with cash.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

Excellent suggestion, Shell.


jumper_jax said:


> Honestly, I feel much better after meeting her. She was a sweet girl, and pretty young. She lives out in the country, so I'm sure it was 100% an oops situation and she just wasn't equipped well to handle it. We don't live in the best area, and there are a lot of terrible people around here, so I definitely understand having a higher re-homing fee to weed out the bad ones. I doubt we will be getting another pupper for awhile, but I will use what I've learned during this process.


Maybe I'm too old and cynical, but dollars to donuts that sweet young thing will have another "oops" litter within the year. Even if she didn't go into it with bad intentions, she just discovered that if you give zero effs about good animal husbandry, you can make a nice chunk of change on puppies despite investing less than minimal effort, knowledge, or skill. 

I mean, she sent you home with a puppy that was dirty enough to require immediate bathing. I'm not seeing the depth of care and concern you attribute to her in any of her actual actions, even if she was a sweet-talker.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

parus said:


>


I like Earthbath products, but if OP can't find them at the store (don't use human baby wipes), I suggest just a mix of 50/50 apple cider vinegar and water and wash clothes to wipe down a messy puppy.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

There are things other than malice and greed - like ignorance - that can lead to some pretty nasty situations that cause suffering, is all I'm saying here. 

I am sure she's nice. I am sure she got in over her head. I am almost sure that things worked out fine this way and even if she's not concerned about making money, she hasn't necessarily learned this is a problem.


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## parus (Apr 10, 2014)

CptJack said:


> There are things other than malice and greed - like ignorance - that can lead to some pretty nasty situations that cause suffering, is all I'm saying here.
> 
> I am sure she's nice. I am sure she got in over her head. I am almost sure that things worked out fine this way and even if she's not concerned about making money, she hasn't necessarily learned this is a problem.


It sounds like an oops pregnancy wasn't enough to teach her to keep the bitch properly supervised/contained, so maybe learning just isn't her thing?

I'll stop harping on it now, because done is done, but I would strongly encourage any person in a similar situation looking at this thread in future to consider what they're supporting/promoting.


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## FatherOfFlo (Jul 14, 2017)

parus said:


> Excellent suggestion, Shell.
> 
> Maybe I'm too old and cynical, but dollars to donuts that sweet young thing will have another "oops" litter within the year. Even if she didn't go into it with bad intentions, she just discovered that if you give zero effs about good animal husbandry, you can make a nice chunk of change on puppies despite investing less than minimal effort, knowledge, or skill.
> 
> I mean, she sent you home with a puppy that was dirty enough to require immediate bathing. I'm not seeing the depth of care and concern you attribute to her in any of her actual actions, even if she was a sweet-talker.


+1000

I mean on top of everything else, the puppy was filthy. Remember that even the worst people in the world can be flattering. Apparently Charlie Manson was a pretty flattering guy. Just saying.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

The dandruff could be mites, so definitely mention that to the vet.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Crantastic said:


> The dandruff could be mites, so definitely mention that to the vet.


I will! I'm accumulating quite a list! Baby Winnie is still doing great! She's playing now, it's crazy seeing how much she's changing in just a couple if days


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

FatherOfFlo said:


> parus said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent suggestion, Shell.
> ...


Well to her credit, I'm 98% certain she was just dirty from food. Seeing how messy she gets while eating it makes sense, especially considering her siblings getting just as messy and climbing all over each other.


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Shell said:


> parus said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Thank you! I never would have thought we couldn't use baby wipes! I'll pick up some apple cider vinegar! She definitely needs to be wiped off after eating - she's so messy!


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## jumper_jax (Jul 15, 2017)

Update time!

Winnie is doing great, being very puppy. We saw the vet on Monday, who fell in love with her (duh). 

She did have a mild case of round worms, so she gave her some de-wormer for that. Also a little "puppy acne" (I can't remember the actual term she used) on her tummy, but the Dr. said it wasn't anything she needed to treat unless it gets worse. The doctor told us to start leaving some dry puppy kibble out for Winnie to play with to get used to it. As soon as we did it, she actually ate almost the whole bowl. She told us we could introduce the two dogs officially since she didn't have anything our other dog could catch. So far he's been a good older brother. 

Just wanted to update everyone on these specific things, and say thank you again! I'm sure I'll be around the forums elsewhere though!! Winnie has her own Instagram if anyone wants to keep up with her shenanigans.


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## Sydneyrocky (Jul 16, 2017)

Glad all is working out; she is really cute now; enjoy !!


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