# New puppy...bad smell



## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Hi!
I have a 3 month old shepherd mix. I have a question about a smell that comes from her after leaving her in the crate.
Every time I come back from her being in the crate, she has a very bad smell from her belly side. I thought it was because she would potty in the crate and maybe lay in it, but I noticed that now she isn't using going potty in there, and she still has a bad smell. I've had her for less than a week and have already given her about 5-6 baths to rid her of the smell. I wash the the plastic tray of the crate with bleach and soap every time, and it smells fine until she gets in there again. She smells fine before going into the crate, too.
Any ideas...this really stinks 

EDIT: I forgot to add the smell isn't not a poo or pee type smell


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

Maybe she farts too much


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

eh....I don't think so.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Have you cleared her medically from any type of yeast/bacterial infection that may have been caused from her laying in a dirty crate when she was messing in it? There are a lot of skin infections that can occur from that type of situation that don't always present with any open sores or abrasions and just has the stink of rotting flesh. Clear all medical reasons first. Sheborrhea is one that comes to mind as well as yeast.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Have you cleared her medically from any type of yeast/bacterial infection that may have been caused from her laying in a dirty crate when she was messing in it? There are a lot of skin infections that can occur from that type of situation that don't always present with any open sores or abrasions and just has the stink of rotting flesh. Clear all medical reasons first. Sheborrhea is one that comes to mind as well as yeast.



She was at the vet for her 1st check up and shots the other day, and they said everything looked fine. Should I make an apt for specifically that?


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Did you bring it up at her appointment that she stinks all the time? Had you just bathed her before her vet visit? I certainly would want a vet to rule out systemic skin infections before anything else. A dog is not just stinky for no reason... there is always a reason and if you're certain that it's not from her messing in her crate then I would absolutely want a vet's opinion.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Now that I think about it. I don't think it has anything to do with her skin. If I bathe her and she's out of her crate all day (days I don't have work or school) then she won't smell. But when I put her in her crate, it happens. Usually only when I'm gone for a length of time...more than an hour or so.
Maybe she is peeing in her crate.
I have the crate divided off, just enough room for her to lay down, turn around, and stand up. I've been working on potty training her for just over a week. Is it normal for her to still be relieving herself in the crate?


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

The dog is only 3 months old of course she's going to go in her crate. She can't physically hold it any more than 3 hours at that age. No dog is physically/consciously capable of holding their urine until 6 months old when all the proper muscles are developed. If they house break before then it's because they now understand yoru schedule and what you're asking of them, not so much of because they can hold it. Personally THIS is one of the main reasons why I don't crate train. You're forced to leave your dog laying in thier own waste for how long and then all kinds of skin issues can arise from it, not to mention the mental trauma that can come of it as well.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

It's definitely her poop. When I came home tonight she must a little piece rolled out of her crate onto the carpet.



Dog_Shrink said:


> The dog is only 3 months old of course she's going to go in her crate. She can't physically hold it any more than 3 hours at that age. No dog is physically/consciously capable of holding their urine until 6 months old when all the proper muscles are developed. If they house break before then it's because they now understand yoru schedule and what you're asking of them, not so much of because they can hold it. Personally THIS is one of the main reasons why I don't crate train. You're forced to leave your dog laying in thier own waste for how long and then all kinds of skin issues can arise from it, not to mention the mental trauma that can come of it as well.


So I can expect her to keep going in her crate for another 3 months?

Also, I think crate training can be a good thing if done the right way.
My friend has 2 English bulldogs and a terrier (don't remember the breed). Whenever they are bored, scared, or it's "time for bed" they go to the crate by them selves.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Crating is a personal preference and I'm not going to debate that one yet again( yuo can search my posts if you want more info on crating). Also how long she needs a crate all depends on how much opportunity you give her to potty train in the house independant of the crate. Potty training is all about making the right choice of where to go and if you don't provide adequate potty breaks (About every 2-3 hours depending on activity) then they're going to fail maybe even past 6 months old but that is when the muscles are fully mature and they are physically capabe of holding their potty needs. My pup was holding it thru the night at 4.5-ish months old. General rule of thumb is pup can hold it 1 hour for every month of age they are. Expecting much past that is unreasonable imo. Chewing on bones, rough play running about, taking walks, all these stimulate bowel movements. Just waking up, after playing, and walking will stimulate bladder. You should be offering to take her out every time she wakes up, plays, chews on a bone or toy for a while, eats, drinks, or just pops up and kinda gives you that "deer in the headlights" look. She likely has to go but is a little clueless as to where to go. Always make her walk to the door you intend to take her out to go potty to, sometimes constantly carrying a dog to the door hinders their being able to develop a "tell" that they have to go.


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

Jo, I was so close when I told you she was farting  I have a 6 week old puppy and she pees like a mad woman lol i cant believe so much pee is inside a puppy


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Crating is a personal preference and I'm not going to debate that one yet again( yuo can search my posts if you want more info on crating). Also how long she needs a crate all depends on how much opportunity you give her to potty train in the house independant of the crate. Potty training is all about making the right choice of where to go and if you don't provide adequate potty breaks (About every 2-3 hours depending on activity) then they're going to fail maybe even past 6 months old but that is when the muscles are fully mature and they are physically capabe of holding their potty needs. My pup was holding it thru the night at 4.5-ish months old. General rule of thumb is pup can hold it 1 hour for every month of age they are. Expecting much past that is unreasonable imo. Chewing on bones, rough play running about, taking walks, all these stimulate bowel movements. Just waking up, after playing, and walking will stimulate bladder. You should be offering to take her out every time she wakes up, plays, chews on a bone or toy for a while, eats, drinks, or just pops up and kinda gives you that "deer in the headlights" look. She likely has to go but is a little clueless as to where to go. Always make her walk to the door you intend to take her out to go potty to, sometimes constantly carrying a dog to the door hinders their being able to develop a "tell" that they have to go.


I do everything you mentioned. She'll sleep through the night, but just incase I always wake up once to take her out. I usually go to bed around 12, and take her out around 4:30. When I'm home with her I take her out every hour or so. Like you said it depends on what she's doing. If she just gulped down lots of water then I'll take her out in about 30 minutes.
As far as when I crate her...It's only when I'll be out of the house and can't keep an eye on her. Work, school, shopping, ect. When I get home I immediately take her out and take her straight outside.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Personally I wouldn't wait 30 minutes to take a dogout after they tank up on water. They feel the slightest pressure ont he bladder and they're gonna go. It sounds like you're on the right track to getting her housebroken. I've confinement trained all my dogs (and most of my clients dogs) in a dog safe room with a baby gate and paper trained them. By paper training you avoid getting the dog in the habit of having to go out at 4:30 in the morning. Personally I'd rather paper train and have the dog make the right choice to go on the paper versus the floor than have to retrain the dog to get them out of the habit of getting up at 4 in the morning to go out or making them have to stay in a soiled area that can lead to serious skin issues. IMO it (paper training) has never delayed or hindered the house breaking process.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

I'll try to see if she can make it the whole night. Usually when I wake up around 4, I have to wake her up.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Now I'm not too sure if the smell is pee or poo. I came back today after class. Took her out of her crate...and sure enough she stinks again. But there was no residual poo at all on the crate floor. I took her right outside and she had a very large poo outside, so I really doubt now, that it's poo. 
What would pee smell like? Kind of musty?

I also have another question. I noticed the other day that Lilly has tape worm in her poo, so I bought some "Dog Worms 3" from 1-800 Pet meds. It's supposed to quickly cure worms. The med should be in tomorrow. Now, the last 2 days I haven't noticed any tape worm in her poo. Can they vanish by themselves?
I let Lilly sleep in the bed with me at night, as I'll probably never lock her up in the crate at night. But a few minutes ago I went into my room (I'm never in there except to sleep, and it's usually dark) and noticed a LOT of little white pieces all over the bed. It looked like rice. I know this is pieces of the tape worm..but this was A LOT. It looked like I took a cup or so of uncooked rice and threw it on the bed. Is it normal for there to be that much? I also noticed all over the bed sheets there are tiny half dollar sized brown stains. Like brown liquid was dropped onto the bed. What could this be caused from? Are these from the tape worms? Could this be what is causing her bad smell?


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

I have no idea. But what you're describing would definitely be cause in my mind to make a vet appointment ASAP.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Yes that is what tapes look like and that is a whole bunch, not normal. At least in 45 yrs I've never seen a dog with that amount of segments. But don't take my word for it just scoop some up and take to your vet. Does the "Dog worms 3" say it will kill tapes also. As far as dark brown stains if the dog has that many tape segments her system is all screwed up and anything is possible. What did the stains smell like.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

wvasko said:


> Yes that is what tapes look like and that is a whole bunch, not normal. At least in 45 yrs I've never seen a dog with that amount of segments. But don't take my word for it just scoop some up and take to your vet. Does the "Dog worms 3" say it will kill tapes also. As far as dark brown stains if the dog has that many tape segments her system is all screwed up and anything is possible. What did the stains smell like.


The stains don't have a smell. They just smell like sheets/detergent.
Yup Dog Worms 3 kills Tape.
""
It is the most comprehensive OTC (no prescription required) de-wormer on the market, and is used to safely control and treat the three most common worms in dogs: roundworms, hookworms, and tapeworms. The chewable tablets are pork liver flavored, and 2 count and 12 count packages are available.
It received a lot of positive reviews.
should I wait to see what this medicine does before I take her in?

I'm not sure if this helps at all. But I just took this picture. It's hard to make out, so I used arrows.
This is about a 5"x"5 spot just to show how many spots there are all over.
her nose does run A LOT when she sleeps...a lot! Maybe these are spots from her nose?









She's spayed, it's not a heat cycle


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## CandJHarris (Apr 29, 2010)

One thing that stood out to me as far as the smell after she comes out of her crate was that you're washing the pan with bleach. If this isn't rinsed very thoroughly and she pees on it the ammonia in her pee could react with the bleach and cause the smell you've noticed since they produce chlorine gas when mixed. I'd recommend using something like Nature's Miracle or a similar pet safe product to see if this makes a difference.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

CandJHarris said:


> One thing that stood out to me as far as the smell after she comes out of her crate was that you're washing the pan with bleach. If this isn't rinsed very thoroughly and she pees on it the ammonia in her pee could react with the bleach and cause the smell you've noticed since they produce chlorine gas when mixed. I'd recommend using something like Nature's Miracle or a similar pet safe product to see if this makes a difference.


That's pretty neat. I never knew about that. I have been using bleach. But I wasn't at 1st and was still getting the same smell.
The steps I take are running bleach over the pan and scrubbing it. Washing it off with water. Soaking it with Dawn detergent, scrub and wash throughly, then I hit it with a stain and odor remover.


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## CandJHarris (Apr 29, 2010)

Yup...mixing bleach and ammonia basically produces mustard gas...definitely not a good combo


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I wouldn't wait for the meds -- get the dog in to the vet. That many tapeworms is not good, and neither are stains or a foul smell. This could get worse the longer you wait. Your vet will be able to help you so much more than anyone here can!


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

jo060 said:


> The stains don't have a smell. They just smell like sheets/detergent.
> Yup Dog Worms 3 kills Tape.
> ""
> It is the most comprehensive OTC (no prescription required) de-wormer on the market, and is used to safely control and treat the three most common worms in dogs: roundworms, hookworms, and tapeworms. The chewable tablets are pork liver flavored, and 2 count and 12 count packages are available.
> ...


I know nothing about the product, but if it is a non prescription needed product with good safety record can see no harm in using it. You are there and I would think just a call to your vet would not be a bad idea though. 

People will call and ask about a training problem with their dogs and I tell them We have 2 fools talking as trying to give advice about a dog I haven't seen/read is one fool, whoever is listening/taking this advice is the 2nd fool. I kinda think health stuff online is the same program. The choice is yours just be careful, you're putting something in your dog to kill something else (worms) so it is a type of poison.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> I wouldn't wait for the meds -- get the dog in to the vet. That many tapeworms is not good, and neither are stains or a foul smell. This could get worse the longer you wait. Your vet will be able to help you so much more than anyone here can!



Alright. I'll take her in tomorrow. Hopefully the vet has an opening. The vets here are always so busy.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Let us know what happens! Hopefully it's easily fixed.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Crantastic said:


> Let us know what happens! Hopefully it's easily fixed.


 Will do!
Thanks!

I have one thing eliminated. The smell is definitely pee. She had an accident on the carpet and it smells exactly the same as her belly after being in the crate.

I wonder if those spots are pee spots. And maybe that's why she smells everytime she gets in her crate. Maybe she can't hold her bladder when laying down, or it just drips out?


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

jo060 said:


> Will do!
> Thanks!
> 
> I have one thing eliminated. The smell is definitely pee. She had an accident on the carpet and it smells exactly the same as her belly after being in the crate.
> ...


Being spayed that young she may have spay incontinence. Something else to talk to your vet about. Or a possible bladder/uti infection. The worms will not be shed in every poo but you obviously have a HEAVY load going on. Panacure (fenbendiazole) is usually the recommended course for a good broad spectrum dewormer but the vet might want something type specific at this level of infestation such as drontol or droncid. Those spots on your sheets look like what my spay incontinent dog's dog bed would look like after a night before she was on meds. It could also be excessive yeast staining from her skin since she is immuno compromised right now from the worm load, the body goes into yeast overload when the immune system is compromised. 

Amazing how all this can come from 1 stinky puppy ay?


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> It could also be excessive yeast staining from her skin since she is immuno compromised right now from the worm load, the body goes into yeast overload when the immune system is compromised.


I did not know that, very interesting. What I don't understand is that a urine smell is kinda standard. OP keeps bouncing her smell-meter around and I do get confused easily. 

A vet visit cures all though, much better than online guesstimating.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Being spayed that young she may have spay incontinence. Something else to talk to your vet about. Or a possible bladder/uti infection. The worms will not be shed in every poo but you obviously have a HEAVY load going on. Panacure (fenbendiazole) is usually the recommended course for a good broad spectrum dewormer but the vet might want something type specific at this level of infestation such as drontol or droncid. Those spots on your sheets look like what my spay incontinent dog's dog bed would look like after a night before she was on meds. It could also be excessive yeast staining from her skin since she is immuno compromised right now from the worm load, the body goes into yeast overload when the immune system is compromised.
> 
> Amazing how all this can come from 1 stinky puppy ay?


Wow! Thanks. That is amazing. I just called the vet (2-actually) and both of them said that I might as well just try the dewormer that I bought, and if that doesn't work then come by.







wvasko said:


> I did not know that, very interesting. What I don't understand is that a urine smell is kinda standard. OP keeps bouncing her smell-meter around and I do get confused easily.
> 
> A vet visit cures all though, much better than online guesstimating.


I did mention last night though, that I narrowed the smell down to urine.

This is what she left me this morning.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Wow your dog is INFESTED with worms. Tell your vet you want type specific dewormer. This needs to end NOW. BTW why are you sleeping with a dog that has this bad of a tape worm infestation. She can give tape worm to YOU.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm well aware that this needs to end. That's the point of the thread. Like I said, I called 2 different offices and they said to try the meds that I bought first, and if that doesn't work then take her in. Earlier this morning her stool had worms in it. I've since given her the meds and so far her stool looks empty (I do realize this doesn't mean anything).


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Any course of meds used to treat this should be a 3 day course unless it is a veterinary grade drug that you are giving such as drontol or droncid. Any course that you do I would repeat in 15 days whether she's symptomatic or not. I don't think you showed your vet the picture and I don't think they know how serious this really is. I mean in 17 years I have NEVER seen a dog shed so many worm segments, even some of the worst pulls from really really bad shelters. Your dog is LOADED. You won't see worms in every poo but will usually be loaded her first BM of the day. At this point with that kinda mess on your sheets I would be testing yourself as well. I would still take her to a vet to discuss the possibility of her having spay incontinence if she's leaking in her sleep. That is a MAJOR indicator of spay incontinence.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

I am on a Veterinarian approved course of action, I am prepared to re-dose in two weeks.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Any course of meds used to treat this should be a 3 day course unless it is a veterinary grade drug that you are giving such as drontol or droncid. Any course that you do I would repeat in 15 days whether she's symptomatic or not. I don't think you showed your vet the picture and I don't think they know how serious this really is. I mean in 17 years I have NEVER seen a dog shed so many worm segments, even some of the worst pulls from really really bad shelters. Your dog is LOADED. You won't see worms in every poo but will usually be loaded her first BM of the day. At this point with that kinda mess on your sheets I would be testing yourself as well. I would still take her to a vet to discuss the possibility of her having spay incontinence if she's leaking in her sleep. That is a MAJOR indicator of spay incontinence.


I replied earlier that I had never in 45 yrs of dog care/training etc seen a load of tape segments that large. It appears that OP has everything in control with Vet. approved course of action. I'm gone.

DS, I did do a copy and paste of the yeast info Thank you.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

wvasko said:


> I replied earlier that I had never in 45 yrs of dog care/training etc seen a load of tape segments that large. It appears that OP has everything in control with Vet. approved course of action. I'm gone.
> 
> DS, I did do a copy and paste of the yeast info Thank you.


You're welcome wvasko. and that was the first pic I was able to see of it. GROSS...


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Just up update. Lilly pooped outside and her stool looked quite different (as to be expected). It wasn't firm, but it wasn't completely soft. It almost looked...air whipped. I went through it and looked completely clear. We'll see in the morning if there is any change.


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## jo060 (Jul 26, 2010)

Everything seems to be well.
Not a single worm on the bed when i woke up this morning. She has more spunk now.
I'll still retreat in 2-weeks.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

absolutely retreat in 2 weeks and I would also consider it again next month as well.


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