# Rally-O and Obedience



## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Tell me about Rally-O and regular Obedience!

Gyp and I are enjoying agility so much that I've been itching to get into something additional. We have some great training centers near us for these two dog sports. I've done a little reading, but I was curious to hear impressions of those here. Specifically, I'm curious about the following. But any info is good.

What are they like, comparatively?
Is one more suited to a particular type of person? Or dog?
What are some of the basic skills taught and tested in the novice levels?

I've had numerous people either ask if I do, or suggest I do, obedience with Gyp. Maybe I will.


----------



## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

I don't know anything about obedience so can't compare, but I started Rally with Luke this year and we competed in our first trial this month. We love it! I originally signed up for an Intro to Rally class with Luke just because I wanted something to do with him as I was feeling bad about spending so much time in agility with Zoey. Turns out, he is awesome at it and loves it! 

This trial was super laid back and fun, everyone was nice, helpful and encouraging. The novice level is done on leash. Everyone starts with a score of 100 and points are deducted throughout your run. The signs tell you exactly what to do and are numbered, so pretty easy to follow. The maneuvers in Novice are basically variations of turns (from 90-360 degrees), sits, downs, fronts and heeling (weave, spirals figure 8). 

Here is a video from our trial, it is a Novice class, we scored 98/100 for first place. Our lost points were both 1 point deductions for crooked sit in front position.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

I compete in both rally and obedience. The most important difference in my mind is that in rally, you can talk to your dog constantly. In obedience, you are only allowed very limited verbal commands. Rally is much most laid back. Obedience people have a tendency to take things much more seriously.

I would suggest starting with rally. Then, go and watch the obedience folks and see if you find the sport interesting. I love obedience. I really like Rally too. Of the two, I prefer the challenge of obedience. However, I had a blast in rally and I do it with all of my dogs. 

My thread about my RAE shows a rally run and some photos if you are interested. The RAE title is the AKC's top title for rally. You have to double qualify 10 times to get it.


----------



## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree with starting with rally to see if you like it. I haven't competed, but I have taken classes and am excited to compete at some point when Watson's brain grows in. It's so much more casual and fun I think, while obedience is much more about precision. Being able to talk to your dog and encourage and praise the whole way through is really helpful for a newbie or young dog. All of the things you learn for rally will apply (like heeling, straight sits, etc) if you want to try obedience later. 

I'm currently reading Click Your Way To Rally Obedience and it's really good. Nice and short and it covers the various signs and skills you need. Of course taking a rally class is also really helpful. I'm looking to print out some signs and practice at home, since Watson has a big issue with trying to sniff every sign :eyeroll:


----------



## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Depending upon the curriculum / structure of classes at your training center and whether you guys have achieved a nominal level yet, I would likely start with basic obedience (level 1 or 2), just to ensure the dog has a FIRM understanding of sit, down, heel position, heeling on leash with eye contact, stays, etc. 

Then I would move up to either novice rally classes or novice OB (CD trial-ready) classes. Probably leaning more towards rally; for most people it's far less daunting than an immediate jump to OB.

Glad to hear you're considering expanding your horizons.


----------



## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

Kirsten&Gypsy said:


> Tell me about Rally-O and regular Obedience!
> 
> Gyp and I are enjoying agility so much that I've been itching to get into something additional. We have some great training centers near us for these two dog sports. I've done a little reading, but I was curious to hear impressions of those here. Specifically, I'm curious about the following. But any info is good.
> 
> ...


If you are going to stay in the same training facility, you have a great advantage. The trainers all know you and your dog (Yes, trainers do indeed talk to each other about the dogs - and the people - in their classes). Even if the obedience trainer is not the same person as the agility trainer, he or she will know what level you and your dog should go to. Usually, agility dogs have no problem "amping up" for the exercises or the rally course. Sometimes, however, they have to work on their attention and ring patience.

Obedience- and to some extent rally-o - is not a continuous "go" as in agility. They require the dog and the handler to move between a "high-go" state, a "medium-go" state and a more-or-less quiescent state. Agility dogs have to learn to work completely off-leash from the beginning - rally dogs start out working completely on-leash at the beginner level (obedience dogs have to learn to do both even at the beginner levels). 

I really don't want to get into the characteristics of the handlers who do the different activities. Let me just say that many, many handlers do all three activities and do them at a high level.

To say that obedience handlers are more "serious" than the others doesn't make much sense. Believe me, to put a MACH on a dog requires a lot of "seriousness".

Obedience handlers have to be almost as disciplined in the ring as their dog is, because the handler is scored almost to the same extent as the dog. They are not allowed as much freedom of action as they are in agility (rally-o being somewhat in between). So to a casual observed, they may seem to be "serious" and not having as much fun. NOT TRUE - a good obedience handler has as much fun with their dog as any other handler does - they just have to be careful about how they show it in the ring.

There are driven people in all dog sports, and different personalities. 

As far as the dogs are concerned, IMHO almost any dog can learn to perform at the beginning levels in obedience and rally-o, whether the dog comes from an agility background or is starting off totally "green". Getting to the more advanced levels is more of a challenge, for both the dogs and the handlers.

If a dog is performing well in agility, he will probably have no problem with the _physical_ demands of rally-o or obedience (the opposite is not always true).

Good luck and have fun.


----------



## MyCharlie (Nov 4, 2007)

Poly said:


> Obedience handlers have to be almost as disciplined in the ring as their dog is, because the handler is scored almost to the same extent as the dog. They are not allowed as much freedom of action as they are in agility (rally-o being somewhat in between). So to a casual observed, they may seem to be "serious" and not having as much fun. NOT TRUE - a good obedience handler has as much fun with their dog as any other handler does - they just have to be careful about how they show it in the ring.


Yes! Our first beginner novice obedience trial - I accidentally left my arm bent for the recall (instead of at my sides) and got deducted points for it. It was a new class that year, and the first time the judge had judged that class, and I don't think it specifies for BN that you have to have your arms down, but after a few words with the judge, I didn't want to push it any further, since it wasn't an NQ anyway lol! 

If you want to do one or the other, I would recommend rally first. I think it's a good transition from agility. But there's no reason why you can't do both!  

I like the variety of rally - the courses change depending on the judge, like with agility. http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/board_minutes/Rally_Regulations.pdf (scroll down to page 155 for a list of all the signs, including novice, advanced, and excellent) It can be a bit confusing regarding the scoring and the required elements of the sign, points off for retries, etc., so I would definitely recommend classes. I like that our club has two classes for each level - a "skills" class where you learn the signs, and then a "ring ready" class where each week we have an actual course to run. 

Obedience, on the other hand, is always the same. Novice heeling pattern to include halts, turns, slow and fast pace heeling. Figure 8 heeling around two human stewards. Stay with a recall. Stand for examination where the judge touches the dog in a few spots along their back. Group sit/stays, then out of sight sit/stays and retrieves and jumps as you progress further up the ladder. 

Overall, I think both require discipline and focus, but again, I like the variety of rally more and rally is a bit more forgiving, especially in the earlier levels. To me, the dogs don't really seem to care either way. They're just doing what you tell them, anyway! lol


----------



## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Thank you all for the great responses!

This has given me a lot to think about. I'm thinking we'll start with Rally-O over Obedience, probably in late September with an AKC club in the area. Unfortunately, it's not where we do agility, but that inconvenience is unavoidable; our agility place is ONLY agility. 



petpeeve said:


> Depending upon the curriculum / structure of classes at your training center and whether you guys have achieved a nominal level yet, I would likely start with basic obedience (level 1 or 2), just to ensure the dog has a FIRM understanding of sit, down, heel position, heeling on leash with eye contact, stays, etc.


I feel we could jump into a Rally-O I course, if not for the heeling fundamentals. Gypsy will heel, and well, but my confidence in her performing heeling specifically with consistency and heavy distractions is low, haha. The training center I'm considering has prerequisite obedience courses prior to Rally, anyway. It's a big facility with a ton of choices. I'm debating going to watch a few classes, to determine which might benefit us the most.



Poly said:


> If you are going to stay in the same training facility, you have a great advantage. The trainers all know you and your dog (Yes, trainers do indeed talk to each other about the dogs - and the people - in their classes). Even if the obedience trainer is not the same person as the agility trainer, he or she will know what level you and your dog should go to. Usually, agility dogs have no problem "amping up" for the exercises or the rally course. Sometimes, however, they have to work on their attention and ring patience.


I wish! My agility place is great! Also, those trainers do know our skills fairly well by now. One of my concerns, starting Obedience/Rally elsewhere, is starting at a level inappropriate for us. I've worked with Gyp on my own a considerable amount, without gearing her toward a specific sport. She's advanced in some skills, perhaps deficient in others. I'm curious to see if the trainers/owners at this new facility can help me find a class that fits us. 



elrohwen said:


> I'm currently reading Click Your Way To Rally Obedience and it's really good. Nice and short and it covers the various signs and skills you need. Of course taking a rally class is also really helpful. I'm looking to print out some signs and practice at home, since Watson has a big issue with trying to sniff every sign :eyeroll:


I found this book used, cheap, and purchased it, along with an agility book that (trainingjunkie, I think) recommended somewhere. Excited! I can always use more material to practice in my backyard... in case my neighbors don't already think I'm a dog nut. Hehe.

Can't wait to see what you and Watson accomplish together once his brain grows in!  He's a pup with a lot of promise! 



trainingjunkie said:


> My thread about my RAE shows a rally run and some photos if you are interested. The RAE title is the AKC's top title for rally. You have to double qualify 10 times to get it.


Huge congratulations! I saw that thread. The title is on your lovely pibble, right? No idea why I didn't reply. That's AWESOME!



kadylady said:


> I don't know anything about obedience so can't compare, but I started Rally with Luke this year and we competed in our first trial this month. We love it! I originally signed up for an Intro to Rally class with Luke just because I wanted something to do with him as I was feeling bad about spending so much time in agility with Zoey. Turns out, he is awesome at it and loves it!
> 
> This trial was super laid back and fun, everyone was nice, helpful and encouraging. The novice level is done on leash. Everyone starts with a score of 100 and points are deducted throughout your run. The signs tell you exactly what to do and are numbered, so pretty easy to follow. The maneuvers in Novice are basically variations of turns (from 90-360 degrees), sits, downs, fronts and heeling (weave, spirals figure 8).


That's a great atmosphere to begin in sports. More and more, I feel we belong in Rally to start. Gypsy is a social butterfly with gusto to spare, but I could use encouragement and a more relaxed atmosphere. LOL. 

It also sounds like obedience and rally-o skills require the dog to slow down and WATCH and THINK, too, which will be a good challenge for Gypsy. She's a firecracker in our agility class. This will test her focus in a different way.



MyCharlie said:


> I like the variety of rally - the courses change depending on the judge, like with agility. http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/board_...egulations.pdf (scroll down to page 155 for a list of all the signs, including novice, advanced, and excellent) It can be a bit confusing regarding the scoring and the required elements of the sign, points off for retries, etc., so I would definitely recommend classes. I like that our club has two classes for each level - a "skills" class where you learn the signs, and then a "ring ready" class where each week we have an actual course to run.
> 
> Obedience, on the other hand, is always the same. Novice heeling pattern to include halts, turns, slow and fast pace heeling. Figure 8 heeling around two human stewards. Stay with a recall. Stand for examination where the judge touches the dog in a few spots along their back. Group sit/stays, then out of sight sit/stays and retrieves and jumps as you progress further up the ladder.


Huh! That's something I didn't know about the two. Rally-O changes, where Obedience doesn't. The variety would be fun, for sure.


----------



## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I have been doing Obedience with Kris. She is just 8 months old so plan on doing Rally with her once she has a bit more Obedience training. I did a Rally class with Lucy just to learn what it entrails and had lots of fun. I have a tough time remembering you can talk to them all the time as I have just done Obedience before. It is not that hard to learn the signs if your dog is really good at heeling and a lot of interesting things you teach them over and above just heel, sit, down, stand and stays. I have had Lucy in a couple of Foundation agility classes and will continue on with that, don't know if I will compete in Rally with her or not.


----------

