# How far along is she?



## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Hi guys!:wave: This is my first time here. I have come to ask about my dog, Coco. She was bred to our own dog, Marley. So now we are 100% sure she is pregnant but do not know when she is gonna pop! 


A description on how she is now..

She is verrry fat! I mean like the last time I properly looked and her and felt her she was a little fat and a little bit tender but not so much.That was 4 days ago. I just brought her in a few minutes ago. She has put on twice as much weight and is as hard as anything to touch. Her boobs are also very big and saggy. She is completely different from 4 days ago. So now this...We do not know exactly when she was bred. I know for sure it was around the start of July but the exact date I have no idea. 

I read on different sites that they get fat around the last week or two.


About the dogs..

They are both purebred, registered Labradors. This is our first time breeding so not everything is easy to understand XD Both dogs are really good and have good lines so we are not breeding for the fun of it. 

Ok and another thing..Is it safe to leave the male dog with the female as she whelps and as the pups are growing up or will he kill them? The vet said it will be fine but I am a little worried because he is such a big dopey dog and very clumsy..I am thinking he will squish them or something..will Coco even let him there them?

Ok thanks guys :biggrin1:

ETA : She is also peeing A LOT! I brought her for a walk the other day. She stopped literally ten times to pee.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

I also have another question...Is it safe to give a pregnant dog vaccines? I have read it is not but the vet said it is =/ I didn't think it would be but I obviously do not know. Also she had kennel cough last week. The vet gave her and injection and antibiotics...Will they harm the pups?


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

Do you know any breeders that can help you? You've really got your hands full and not much time to learn how to handle this. No, I would not allow the male around the puppies.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Oh we can handle it but just have some questions that have gotten so many different answers. Our vet doesn't seem great. He is all easy going and says whatever happens happens. I also do not think keeping the male is a good idea but when I asked him he laughed and said it will be fine =/ And yes we do know some breeders we got Coco off who will more than likely help. We have had pups before but it was not planned ( Different dog a few years ago) We had her on her own so had no problems with other dogs around her. And we kept the pups until they were 8 weeks. All very healthy except two who got Parvo =( One died sadly. But yeah we know what is happening just some things that we have not come across before.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

A one-year-old dog is not old enough to have been evaluated for hip dysplasia (which all breeding Labs should be, it's a huge problem in the breed). And just letting the dogs go at it, not knowing the actual breeding date, just isn't safe (you ought to know the date so something can be done if she goes too far overdue). So obviously this is not a healthy breeding. I hope everything works out but I don't see this ending well 

You really need to find a vet who is experienced with breeding issues. So many things can go wrong. . .what if she needs an emergency c-section? What if she gets eclampsia or won't stop bleeding? A good vet is necessary if you're going to breed. This one doesn't sound like he's very knowledgeable on the subject.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

You don't know when you bred them? I'm hoping both of them have OFA hips and elbows at least. I would go to your vet who can ultrasound or xray and give you a pretty good ETA.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

and then there's the fact that dogs have their own versions of STDs that can be transmitted from mom to pup...if they don't kill the puppies in the womb.

a vet is NOT a good resource for a breeding. most of them don't know the half of it. you're in over your head.

did you breed her on her first heat? because that's really unhealthy too.

you tested for hip dysplasia right? its heritable..and in more severe cases dogs with dysplasia have to be put down..a sire or dam can carry it without actually having it.

yeah..in over your head.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Aww you guys are so nice!! Honestly cannot judge me! They have both been tested for everything! Both dogs are fine. I was not around when the dogs were bred so I have no idea exactly when! I already said I know it was the first week of July. The dogs are always together we have no way to separate them. And of course she was not bred on her first heat! This was her third =/ 

I only asked a question that none of you answered so if you don't mind..If you are not actually gonna answer the question then just don't post telling me I don't know what I am doing! All of you have gone totally off the subject =/ Thanks for the help anyways!

Oh and we do have another vet on call that is around the corner from us. 

Thanks labmom for trying to help =) I will ask Coco's breeders about this...

And so sorry if I am overreacting but this is just wrecking my head! It is none of your business what I am doing with my dogs. I only asked a simple question..


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It's not possible for your dogs to have been tested "for everything", since your male is only 16 months and your female is probably under 2 years old, too (did she have the accidental litter on her first heat? Poor thing. What happened to those puppies, I wonder?). Hip dyplasia can't be screened for until 2 years of age. 

I guess it's just terrible that we want to see people producing healthy dogs and not crippled dogs with hip dysplasia who are in terrible pain and have to be PTS at a young age. . .


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Coco is actually 2 and a half...They have been tested for everything possible. We have checked back in both dogs breeding lines. We have done everything so far. 

And I never mentioned hip dysplasia in the topic so why was all of this brought up? Just because I don't know exactly the day my dogs mated I do not know anything and am a terrible person =/


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I understand your feeling attacked and I'm sorry. Please understand that we see a LOT of very irresponsible new people coming here that are contributing to the over-population of unwanted dogs and so we get upset sometimes. 
First off, I'd hightail it to a decent vet. ASAP. He can tell you better when she'll give birth and you need him on hand in case things dont go well. You also should really have an ultrasound done so you know how many puppies there are and can make sure she doesnt retain a placenta. Have some extra money on hand in case an emergency c-section is necessary. In the meantime, read every single thing you can get your hands on about whelping. Good luck.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Because responsible breeders check for hip dysplasia (and again, it's not possible for your male to have been accurately tested yet), so any time you mention breeding on this forum somebody will want to make sure you're a responsible breeder. Because millions of dogs are being killed in shelters every year, anybody who adds more dogs into that needs to really know that they're actually doing the breed a favor instead of producing more unhealthy, crippled dogs who will also die young. Labs are SO prone to bad hips, it's very basic to test for that before breeding.

How do you plan to prevent her from getting pregnant on every heat (which is very bad for her) if they're never separated and neither one will be spayed/neutered?

I think at this point in the pregnancy an x-ray would be more accurate to find out how many pups are in her than an ultrasound would be. You need to know how many pups are in there so you can take her to the vet if not all of them come out.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

I totally understand about people breeding for no good reason. But we bred because both dogs are excellent! Marley has a famous grandsire whom I forget the name of XD And Coco is just a fabulous dog. I also do not like it when people breed and then let their pups go anywhere. But we already have people wanting them and we know the people so we know they will be looked after. We hope to get an ultrasound done next week but not knowing when she is gonna whelp does not help. I am going to say the first week in september which is only 2 weeks away. She sure looks ready to have them. I have read this great site on whelping! I forget the name of it but it has everything that can go wrong etc. So I am prepared for that part. I just need to know when to get ready.

Oh and another question...Is it ok for her to have them outside? We have made her a big box/kennel type thing that has enough room for two dogs so she has plenty of room. We are gonna divide both dogs up next week so she can be alone.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Ok I was thinking X Ray too as I read it on that great site XD 


Did I say they were never getting spayed or neutered? If I did I am sorry because Coco is definitely getting spayed after these are born.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

It's better if she has them indoors. Less exposure to diseases, and more chances to properly socialize the pups.

Having a "famous grandsire" doesn't mean a dog doesn't have hip dysplasia, or that he himself is breeding quality. And you said in the training thread that you think there's something wrong with him mentally. . .why do you want to possibly pass that on to his pups?

Anyway, it's good you're going to have her spayed after this. I hope this litter is healthy and nothing goes wrong.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

I will love telling my mother that =/ But hopefully she comes around because I want her to be inside. 

I said he was a 'loony bin' That was me joking...As in he is crazy and mad. Not that he is mentally ill. I just find him very dopey at the moment. Because he is a big dog with a puppy brain.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

If you can at least talk her into letting them be in a laundry room, or something, that'd be best.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

She is gone away for 2 weeks so I only have to talk my stepfather around which will be easy! He pretty much lives with those dogs XD And hopefully she has them before my mother comes back so they cannot be moved =P


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Anyways here are my dogs! Just because...

Marley











Coco..That was her last week































This is what happens when they get inside XD



















This was when Marley was younger...Coco did not like him at first but I guess he grew on her 










After a swim










After another swim..Her first one actually! She loved it












And this is when we got Marley..As you can see he has grown a lot!












Soo sorry for the picture overload I got a bit carried away !


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

The puppies have to be indoors in an area that is at least 70 degrees. Newborns can not regulate their temperature, if they get cold they are as good as dead. 

As for the sire being around bad bad bad idea. That is too much stress on an already stressful situation, he is most likely bound to get his head bitten off by a protective mother. Plus she could eat her puppies or trample them, which could happen anyways but you get the point.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

I have tried telling my mother all this but she just does not get it =/ She thinks this vet knows everything!! I knew there was something wrong with him when he said pregnant dogs can still get vaccines and injections etc...I will just have to show her this and she better understand!


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

The only vets I would trust with breeding advice are old timers. There are only three vets I would trust to do a c section in MD and VA, and one of them is a breeder himself, the other is my vet and the last is our cobreeder's. 

Vets are good for a lot of things, but I do not trust many with aspects of breeding.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

You should try to see a vet who specializes in or has a lot of experience with reproduction if you can. A pregnant woman wouldn't see a GP for her prenatal care and delivery.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I know you think people are being hard on you but alot of us know what we're talking about. I'm not a breeder, never have been, never will be but even I know that labradors need to be screened for hip dysplasia. You said they've been tested for everything. If they've been tested for HD, then we can find the results on the OFA website. What are the sire and dams AKC names? If they have not been tested for HD, do you realize that is something that can cause dogs to be in a great amount of pain?


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Having the male around could lead to accidents or aggression by the mother, so I'd avoid it.

Just a tip, but you know those breed specific books in pet shops? A lot of them go into the details about pregnancy in the specific breed with very detailed pictures and common problems that occur. At the very least, I'd pick one of those up just so you know what to expect. They also have a lot of valuable information about raising the puppies. 

Good luck with the puppies  It's not uncommon to have some problems with the first litter. My parents' JRT had 2 bad pregnancies and almost stopped breeding her but the third she actually had healthy pups. I think the larger dogs are easier though. One problem we had when we were breeding show quality pups is that the mother would pull at their umbilical cords and the puppies would get hernias that were harmless, but would have faulted them in the ring. We would maybe get one or two show quality pups out of 5. I believe labs have more puppies, but you really want to look into the temperament and structure of the puppies and look at other show quality lab puppies to be able to be brutally honest with your pups. 

I'd also suggest finding another vet, because it was always a 50/50 chance that we would have a midnight trip to a reliable vet with our dog if there were complications, and boy she had them - nothing unusual either, but if it could happen, it did.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I am only making a suggestion. Since the dog is already going to have pups......if it is able to have the pups alright at home.......I had a hard plastic large swimming pool that I set up in my home lined with newspapers in advance for my Collie to use as a whelping area. That way you can stay with her as she whelps and help if need be, change the newspaper as it is soiled and weigh each one and tag it so you know who is who. I am not sure anymore about the placenta......I was told not to let them eat too many of them. An expert can tell you about this. I am not an expert. I just had the opportunity to breed once back in 1972. I stayed with my dog the entire time and helped her......with all 13 pups! It was a long day! Lol!

In no way shape or form would I let any dog near her as she is whelping. I wish you luck!

I used a small piece of different colored ribbon to keep them seperate. I did this so that they were proper on their AKC apps.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks for the help guys! I am still trying to convince them that Marley cannot be with her. It is tough. My dogs are not registered with the AKC but the IKC. And Coco's papers have not come back yet. When we bought her we did not know she was not registered. The breeders just gave us her sire and dams papers. So we had to register her a few weeks ago. I will go find Marleys papers and tell you his full name. The breeder came up with it not us XD He said to think of something fancy.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Aha... The International Kennel Club... So you aren't really planning on breeding for show quality dogs then? I would think a breeding program under the AKC after adequate experience with the breed might be more productive for the breed since the standards are higher. I'll be completely honest, I thought the IKC was a puppy mill, but maybe I was wrong.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

And another backyard breeder is born...This is pretty sad that the parents can't even see the "wrong" in this...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

cynster said:


> Aha... The International Kennel Club... So you aren't really planning on breeding for show quality dogs then? I would think a breeding program under the AKC after adequate experience with the breed might be more productive for the breed since the standards are higher. I'll be completely honest, I thought the IKC was a puppy mill, but maybe I was wrong.


 I think the OP is in the UK. I don't know what the accepted registry is there.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Oh ok! Maybe that is a different IKC then  The UK registry is the Kennel Club- but I'm not sure if they have any other registries with strict standards. 

OP: whatever the registry is- if you are planning a breeding program, you want to make sure your registry is legit because sometimes puppy mills create fake or inadequate registries and if you register your show quality dogs with a low quality registry, that will reflect on you and your pups.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

It is the Irish kennel club lol. I am pretty sure they are the main thing here. 

And who says I am a back yard breeder? People have to start somewhere! Not everybody knew everything when they started breeding =/ Anyways you can say what you like I ignore people who judge without knowing.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

CocoAndMarley said:


> It is the Irish kennel club lol. I am pretty sure they are the main thing here.
> 
> And who says I am a back yard breeder? People have to start somewhere! Not everybody knew everything when they started breeding =/ Anyways you can say what you like I ignore people who judge without knowing.


Do you show your dogs in conformation or have they proven themselves in other ways?


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Loki Love said:


> Do you show your dogs in conformation or have they proven themselves in other ways?


You know, I think this is an over-rated question. Proving the dog in conformation competition proves that they look a certain way. It does not prove that they are healthy, or will make good pets, or do any sort of job. Proving a dog in obedience or agility proves that you can train them to do those specific things. That's all it does. In breeds where gene pools are small (don't imagine that is the case in labs, though I bet in some venues there are popular sires, common founders) finding quality animals in homes that haven't "proven" them in the accepted ways can be a godsend to the breed. My questions would not be about proving, but about temperament and health. What are the common problems in your breed? What are the available tests for those problems? Have you done them? What are the parent dogs' temperaments? Are they correct for the breed? Are they good representatives of the breed? What do you know about the pedigree, and problems known in those lines that you don't want to double up on? and, if I were breeding a young dog (not as young as a year) I would not want to breed to a young male. I would want at least one parent to be old enough that I know things that don't show up until after puppyhood haven't happened to that dog. My last litter (7 years ago) I did breed a two year old female (health tested) but I bred her to a 9 year old male (also health tested and hips OFA excellent at NINE!). So, I was pretty sure that the male was structurally sound at an older age, did not have juvenile cataracts, did not have idiopathic epilepsy, etc. He was also proven in a number of areas, but that wasn't the major issue I was concerned with.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> You know, I think this is an over-rated question. Proving the dog in conformation competition proves that they look a certain way. It does not prove that they are healthy, or will make good pets, or do any sort of job. Proving a dog in obedience or agility proves that you can train them to do those specific things. That's all it does. In breeds where gene pools are small (don't imagine that is the case in labs, though I bet in some venues there are popular sires, common founders) finding quality animals in homes that haven't "proven" them in the accepted ways can be a godsend to the breed. My questions would not be about proving, but about temperament and health. What are the common problems in your breed? What are the available tests for those problems? Have you done them? What are the parent dogs' temperaments? Are they correct for the breed? Are they good representatives of the breed? What do you know about the pedigree, and problems known in those lines that you don't want to double up on? and, if I were breeding a young dog (not as young as a year) I would not want to breed to a young male. I would want at least one parent to be old enough that I know things that don't show up until after puppyhood haven't happened to that dog. My last litter (7 years ago) I did breed a two year old female (health tested) but I bred her to a 9 year old male (also health tested and hips OFA excellent at NINE!). So, I was pretty sure that the male was structurally sound at an older age, did not have juvenile cataracts, did not have idiopathic epilepsy, etc. He was also proven in a number of areas, but that wasn't the major issue I was concerned with.


Since the OP had already discussed health testing, I was simply inquiring about what else she's done with the dogs to prove they are suitable for breeding. Hardly an over-rated question in my mind, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Loki Love said:


> Since the OP had already discussed health testing, I was simply inquiring about what else she's done with the dogs to prove they are suitable for breeding. Hardly an over-rated question in my mind, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course


Actually, the OP has not discussed health testing. I don't know if her dogs have been xrayed for hip and elbow dysplasia. I don't know if their eyes have been examined by a veterinary opthalmologist. To many people a clean bill of health is when the vet looks in the eyes, looks in the ears, takes a temp and declares the dogs perfectly healthy.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Unfortunately I have not shown either dogs. Marley is just too crazy to bring around other dogs at the moment so I am waiting for him to grow up a little. And there have not been many opportunities to show etc. Coco would do excellent at agility etc because she loves jumping, running and other stuff. To be honest I am a shy person and would not know what to do at a show. But next June there is a big agri show in the town so I will enter them into something there. At the show this year I was working so I had no time to be doing anything else.

If anyone has any help with showing etc I would greatly appreciate it. I just do not know what to do.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> Actually, the OP has not discussed health testing. I don't know if her dogs have been xrayed for hip and elbow dysplasia. I don't know if their eyes have been examined by a veterinary opthalmologist. To many people a clean bill of health is when the vet looks in the eyes, looks in the ears, takes a temp and declares the dogs perfectly healthy.


Yes, quite clearly - so feel free to ask away and get clarification from the OP should you so desire. My point was on conformation since people had already asked about health testing - I wasn't looking to receive the same response from the OP 

Don't get me wrong - when I look for a dog from a breeder, I look for the ENTIRE package - including, conformation showing (or proven in other areas), temperament, health testing, how far do the lines go back, why have they chosen to breed 2 particular dogs, and what do they bring to the table vs other dogs of the same breed.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

CocoAndMarley said:


> Unfortunately I have not shown either dogs. Marley is just too crazy to bring around other dogs at the moment so I am waiting for him to grow up a little. And there have not been many opportunities to show etc. Coco would do excellent at agility etc because she loves jumping, running and other stuff. To be honest I am a shy person and would not know what to do at a show. But next June there is a big agri show in the town so I will enter them into something there. At the show this year I was working so I had no time to be doing anything else.
> 
> If anyone has any help with showing etc I would greatly appreciate it. I just do not know what to do.


You can have someone handle the dogs for you in the show ring (if that's the route you decide to go). By attending a few shows and talking to breeders that are actively showing, you can also inquire about handling classes, etc. I co-own my dog with our breeder and she handles him in the ring - it's easy peasy for us 

Normally one starts off with showing (and health testing, temperament, etc) prior to breeding.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Loki Love said:


> Yes, quite clearly - so feel free to ask away and get clarification from the OP should you so desire. My point was on conformation since people had already asked about health testing - I wasn't looking to receive the same response from the OP
> 
> Don't get me wrong - when I look for a dog from a breeder, I look for the ENTIRE package - including, conformation showing (or proven in other areas), temperament, health testing, how far do the lines go back, why have they chosen to breed 2 particular dogs, and what do they bring to the table vs other dogs of the same breed.


Other than the conformation showing (and to some degree proven in other areas) I'd agree with most of that. Quite honestly, you couldn't pay me to own a lot of the CHs in my breed. And I would rather get dogs whose parents are real working dogs than successful trial dogs (in my dogs' pedigrees there are fortunately a number of dogs who were both). And while I've participated in a number of sports, I don't think they prove anything other than the owner's desire to play at sports. Now that said, if conformation championships are important to others, that's fine with me.


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

CocoAndMarley said:


> It is the Irish kennel club lol. I am pretty sure they are the main thing here.


Oh phew that is good! I was worried it was the American IKC, which isn't really even a registry at all.  They are notorious for being very closely linked with a large puppy mill shop. 

With a good registry and a mentor to help, you should learn the ropes pretty quickly  My parents bred JRT dogs, and had one that came 4th in nationals (not to brag lmao) but what I'm trying to get at is that they were very new to it too. She got a badly bred JRT at first, then my mom did her research and got an excellent mentor and went to shows etc. and her second dog did amazingly. I think anyone can do it if you put the time in to research the breed but there is also some networking involved that you've got to do to learn who has got the best dogs, why do they have the best dogs, what are the judges looking for, what attitude does the dog have, etc. 

I don't know if you're planning on showing eventually or not, but I would advise it!  That way your dogs get a sort of stamp of approval and personally you know your breeding program is working. It's very hard to self-judge your own dogs. If you aren't really into showing, at some point you could probably buy a champion dog that you like the looks of and then your pups already have a stamp of approval - but then you do need to know what to look for in the puppies to be sure show quality puppies are going to people that will show them and kind of get your name out there. Good luck!


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

Pawzk9 said:


> Other than the conformation showing (and to some degree proven in other areas) I'd agree with most of that. Quite honestly, you couldn't pay me to own a lot of the CHs in my breed. And I would rather get dogs whose parents are real working dogs than successful trial dogs (in my dogs' pedigrees there are fortunately a number of dogs who were both). And while I've participated in a number of sports, I don't think they prove anything other than the owner's desire to play at sports. Now that said, if conformation championships are important to others, that's fine with me.


My breed of choice are Great Danes - so besides conformation showing, there isn't much else (to my knowledge) that can be done with them at this point to prove them successful in other areas (except therapy work, etc). That said, I completely agree that for some working breeds, I would look for parents and lineage that have proven themselves to be successful working dogs - if that's what you are looking for and deem important. Nothing wrong with that


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Just thought I would post a picture of how she looks as of today...Gosh she is soo fat I am wondering if she will have them sooner than expected..Or else there is a lot in there XD I cannot feel any puppies yet so they are not getting ready to come out 



















Should we shave around her 'teat' or will it all fall out in time?


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

Personally I wouldn't shave  I'm not sure how far along she is since it's been -years- and years since I've seen a large dog give birth. I think I read somewhere that labs can have up to 16 puppies. You might be able to find a breeding journal with pictures of how the dog looks at each week


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

I have been googling it a lot to find pictures that look the same but it is hard XD I just got this off a website. It is a woman who breeds the dogs the whole time so she obviously knows..

'Pregnant Dams spend a lot of their time in the last week stretched out, to get those puppies into position' 

I wonder if that is what she is doing. Usually she lies with her head between her legs but since two days ago she has been stretched out like in the pictures...Better go get her bed ready before she chooses a spot that is not good XD I have also seen some pictures..Here is one that should be around the same time..










It looks like her teat are a lot less saggy than Coco's...Or is it because she is stretched and standing?


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

CocoAndMarley said:


> Should we shave around her 'teat' or will it all fall out in time?


What does your mentor say?


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

I do not have one. It is very hard to find breeders around here. I know I said I would talk to the breeder of Coco but she doesn't do things perfectly. Like I said she 'Forgot' to tell us Coco was not registered. So it is hard to find people to trust. And well you know the vet is quite rubbish. I do not like his answers to things. It is all 'take it as it comes'. He even said that there is no need for anyone to be with her when she is having them. But I will definitely be there . 

But I am gonna go ask the vet around the corner a few questions to prove to my mother and stepfather our vet knows nothing! 

And I really like this website I have found. There is basically everything about pregnancy and whelping on it. She shaves but she also said the hair will fall out. I am just wondering will it fall out on time.


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## aBlueDog (Feb 14, 2011)

Leerburg has some pretty decent information on breeding. http://leerburg.com/breedingdogs.htm They also have(from what I have seen) one of the best formula mixes. I would keep everything for the forumla on hand incase something goes wrong and she can't/wont feed the puppies. http://leerburg.com/bottlefeeding.htm


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## cynster (Feb 26, 2011)

CocoAndMarley said:


> I do not have one. It is very hard to find breeders around here. I know I said I would talk to the breeder of Coco but she doesn't do things perfectly. Like I said she 'Forgot' to tell us Coco was not registered. So it is hard to find people to trust.


 I just wouldn't shave it then. Not that I think it'll make a big difference either way. The first thing you should do to be successful is start going to shows in your area and bring the dog that is the most well behaved as a sort of ice breaker to meet people who have been showing and breeding for a long long time. I'm super shy and eventually decided against showing, but one of my friends in the area I actually met on facebook and she was not shy to ask questions and meet other Papillon people. Maybe you could do a search on facebook to see if there are any local clubs in your area and network via text at first if it is easier.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I've never bred, but I was there when one of labs was born and the breeder didnt shave her. I wouldnt do it. It might irritate the skin and it'll be itchy when it starts growing back.


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

How did I miss this topic the other day?? These threads are absolute gold.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

The IKC in Ireland is the same as the AKC here in the US. It is a registry. You can have puppymill dogs in both registries. I am concerned that this is a young person asking these questions and not the parents. I am happy to know that there is at least one person in the home who cares about the dog and having her safe in her delivery, but it sounds like you are at best a teenager and what your parents say is the last word. No one should undertake breeding without a mentor. It is not in the best interest of the dog or the breed. It has apparently happened here and the pups are on their way no matter what any of us say here.

My only advice is to find a mentor fast. Contact a local breed club if there is one locally. If not, look for a breed rescue in your area. They may have someone experienced in whelping pups to help you. Be prepared to take a lot of flack for the decision to breed your dog. It will happen but you need the help of someone who is in the know. It may be that your dog whelps easily and all the pups are healthy, but what will you do if your dog needs a C-section or if any of the puppies are in distress. If your parents aren't even willing to let the dog whelp inside the house, I am concerned for her safety and that of her pups.

Good luck and I sincerely hope that things go well for you, your dog and her puppies. You sound like you are sincerely trying to do what you feel is best. I would not want to be in your shoes right now. You have so many questions and you need someone on hand with the right answers.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

CocoAndMarley said:


> Just thought I would post a picture of how she looks as of today...Gosh she is soo fat I am wondering if she will have them sooner than expected..Or else there is a lot in there XD I cannot feel any puppies yet so they are not getting ready to come out


You should _know_ how many are in there. Your vet should x-ray her for you and help you count the puppies. If you don't know how many to expect, how will you know that she's given birth to all of them? Sometimes a puppy can get stuck inside, which can cause major problems for your bitch.


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## CocoAndMarley (Aug 17, 2011)

Here she is today! A week later..Her bed is now ready for her! Here she is investigating it











And that big belly










I think she liked it!










And we went for a tiny walk...


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## Mr. V (Jan 28, 2010)

Cool. So how many pups are there?


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

Here is the contact information for the representative of the Labrador Retriever Club of Ireland listed on the IKC's website (Found here: http://ikc.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=17&Itemid=32 )

Labrador Retriever Club of Ireland 
Mrs. A. Hancock 
48 Shelbourne Road, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4.
(01-6685244) Email: [email protected]

Call that number or write an email NOW. Explain your situation to her and request help/advice. Ask what vets she recommends and if she knows of any breeders near you that would be willing to help. I don't think you understand how serious and potentially dangerous a whelping can be. The puppies could die if you don't know what you're doing... COCO could die if you don't know what you're doing. It's an extremely real possibility, and you can't learn what life-threatening conditions look like just by looking at pictures. You need someone experienced to help get you, Coco, and the puppies through this. Are you equipped to remove puppies from the birth canal if they get stuck? Do you know what color Coco's pre-birth discharge should be? Do you know when to give her calcium supplements? Do you know how to stimulate contractions? Do you know when it's necessary to stimulate contractions? Do you know how long you should wait between puppy births before you get worried and seek medical attention? Do you know how to encourage a pup to nurse? Do you know how to bottle feed a pup that has refused to nurse? Do you know what colostrum is? If a puppy is born with a sack, do you know how to remove it? Have you decided whether to let the mother chew the umbillical cord or cut it yourself? Do you know the pros and cons of both? Do you know how to properly sever an umbilical cord? Do you know the risks associated with improper umbilical cord cutting? Do you know what hemostats are? Do you have hemostats? Do you know how to surgically sterilize instruments? Do you have surgical grade scissors? Are you able to identify a placenta? Have you built a whelping box? Have you put the right materials in the whelping box? Is the whelping box properly constructed so that it contains the puppies? Do you have a whelping kit prepared? Do you have dental floss, surgical gloves, KY Jelly, a thermometer, vaseline, a scale to weigh puppies, a book and pen to record weights, a flashlight in case of an emergency power loss, canine milk replacer formula prepared, Syringe to administer fluids to the mother if necessary, calcium supplements? Do you know why someone might recommend these things? Are you prepared to spend the entire birthing period with the mother, which may take several hours ( and might start at a very inconvenient time, like when you have school or a job or a scheduled event you had previously committed to -- sorry, you need to stay with the mother for the entire process without sleeping. Can you do that? Do you know what the optimal temperature range of the mother during whelping should be? The pups? Do you know what to do if the temperature is too low or too high? 

And we haven't even begun to get into all the questions associated with being able to properly raise newborn pups until they're 8 weeks and ready for their new homes. 

You need someone to help you with this. Don't risk the life of Coco and the life of the puppies because, for whatever reason, you were unable to ask for help when you needed it.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I just skimmed through the posts but to answer your first question about when she would have her puppies. If you know the first date she was bred, count 63 days from that date and expect the pups anytime from about day 59 on. I have found with larger litters (more pups) that they sometimes have them before the 63 days. Also, do not give calcium while they are in whelp as it can cause Eclampsia after the pups are born.


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