# Finding the perfect breed for me



## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

Hey everyone my name is Paige, 

I am not a new dog owner but I am looking to find my next show dog, I can not decide on a breed, so I was looking for some sort of kick in the right direction.

I currently own a German shepherd and they are to much for me, I'm looking for a get up and go but once inside a super snuggly by my side companion who is ok with other pets and ok with kids, some breeds I can get a itchy nose with like my shepherd and golden retrievers and labs. 

I don't have kids but plan on in my mid/late twenties, but I do babysit my niece and nephew 

I absolutely love everything about Dalmatians but i need help figuring out my perfect match 

Thanks 
Paige


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

There are no perfect breeds but there may be a perfect dog for you somewhere but the problem comes in finding the rascal. Also in the work needed to make him/her a perfect dog that fits your personality.


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

Well, what are you looking for?

How much exercise are you able to provide a day? Training time? Grooming time?

What do you want size wise?

Do you rent or own your own home? (Most apartments have weight limits)


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

blenderpie said:


> Well, what are you looking for?
> 
> How much exercise are you able to provide a day? Training time? Grooming time?
> 
> ...


Hey,

I work at a doggy daycare so he/she would get great socialization, I plan on going to Canada west canine trainers to become a dog trainer on 2 years so ill be buying my show pup either then or after.

My personality is bubbly I just love to cuddle all day but I love being outdoors my father owns 160acres we go every summer,.., I love everyone so outgoing friendly(basically a dog that won't get anxious when I decide to cuddle him/her and read a book or watch a couple movies and fall asleep snuggling). I prefer a medium to large breed so 35-150lbs and 23+inches tall. I strongly believe in offlead training so a breed trustworthy off lead. I also ride horses and own a cat. There is small children (my 5 year old niece and my 1 1/4 year old nephew) 

Notes: I'm slightly allergic to my German shepherd (rumer) and I get really itchy nosed at work when the golden retrievers snuggle me  my allergies wont stop me with loving and owning my next show dog. Also, we do rent but we have spoken about it and they are dog lovers so don't care as long as there good.

Thank You


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Well aside from being alittle allergic to your GSD, in what other ways is he "too much for you", this will help us help you make a good doggie decision...


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

blenderpie said:


> Well, what are you looking for?
> 
> How much exercise are you able to provide a day? Training time? Grooming time?
> 
> ...


Hey,

I work at a doggy daycare so he/she would get great socialization, I plan on going to Canada west canine trainers to become a dog trainer on 2 years so ill be buying my show pup either then or after.

My personality is bubbly I just love to cuddle all day but I love being outdoors my father owns 160acres we go every summer,.., I love everyone so outgoing friendly(basically a dog that won't get anxious when I decide to cuddle him/her and read a book or watch a couple movies and fall asleep snuggling). I prefer a medium to large breed so 35-150lbs and 23+inches tall. I strongly believe in offlead training so a breed trustworthy off lead. I also ride horses and own a cat. There is small children (my 5 year old niece and my 1 1/4 year old nephew) 

Notes: I'm slightly aweigh to my German shepherd (rumer) and I get really itchy nosed at work when the golden retrievers snuggle me  my allergies wont stop me with loving and owning my next show dog. Also, we do rent but we have spoken about it and they are dog lovers so don't care as long as there good.
Also, I am always outside so a dog that can keep up but not so crazy high energy that I'd bored wont ruin my stuff, also I want a dog I can train to do all kids of tricks.

Thank You


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yes, as I have said before, for me temperment match is far more importent then what the dog looks like or what breed they are ... I typically dont like lab mixes but I wouldnt mind one if we matched temperment wise.

good luck


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

If you don't mind fur from a GSD, I was thinking a collie but you would want to research them a lot. The breeder I went to had cats and a bird and they were fine with them. It would take training because they are a herding breed. They need less exercise than a GSD and dalmatian.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

BernerMax said:


> Well aside from being alittle allergic to your GSD, in what other ways is he "too much for you", this will help us help you make a good doggie decision...


To high energy very dominant.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

No GSD I ever had the experience of knowing was "dominant" (I hate that dirty word) there is no such thing as dominant in the world of the demestic dog ... Just so you know. There is only trained & untrained, a dominant dog is often a misunderstood untrained one


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

You didn't really answer the question....the more specific you can be the better. I know It's tempting to speak in generalities.

For example, I'm not a person who wants to spend more than an hour actively walking my dog. 30-45 minutes is more ideal. I have one dog that's fine with a half an hour, and one that will need much more. To compensate, we're building some agility equipment out of PVC and hopefully, she'll learn to love her frisbee.

How do you see yourself exercising your dog?

One of my dogs needs to be brushed 2-3 times a week and blows coat twice a year. At 7 months, he's never had the occasion to be bathed because of his coat type. Our other puppy has hair and will need to go to the groomer every two months in top of in between bathing, brushing, and minor trimming on our part. 

What do you see yourself being willing to do? Do you like a low maintenance coat? Or would you not mind a daily brushing?

How dedicated to training are you? Are you after manners and basic commands or do you enjoy training and your dog will be loading the washer, turning off lights, and saying his/her prayers before bed every night? Or something in the middle? 

You said you'd like a dog to be reliable off leash and that's great! Although that's very much up to training, some dogs are less likely to naturally want to stay with you when there are other exciting things to see and smell and places to run (sight and scent hounds and some northern breeds).

So far we have medium sized and friendly. If it weren't for your desire to show (assuming you want to through the akc) I'd recommend the apbt. But once we have more info, it'll be easier.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

My first thought was English or Welsh springer spaniels. Welsh especially are very velcro dogs who love to cuddle and are generally ok off leash with training (they need to stay within gun range for hunters, so while recall may not be amazing when they are on the scent of something, they have a strong desire to stay within sight). They have fun bubbly personalities, and while Welsh can be reserved with strangers, mine specifically is in love with every person he sees. 

They can require a lot of exercise though, especially ESS, so more information on what you see as a typical day would be good.

Also, you mention show dog - what kind of shows? IME, competing in rally/obedience/agility is a bit of a different game than conformation. To compete in conformation you need to find a breeder who is willing to let you have a show quality puppy (most puppies are not show quality, and the breeder will want to keep one and have the others go to homes she knows will show the dogs). The dog cannot be fixed and needs to be on regular registration, not limited, so there is a risk for the breeder that you will take her dog and start breeding dogs she doesn't approve of. It can take a lot more work to find a puppy appropriate for conformation and a breeder who will support a newbie. For other types of shows, you will have a much easier time since dogs can be fixed, and things that would disqualify them from the conformation ring (out of standard colors, for example) won't be an issue. Most breeders would be thrilled to have their "pet quality" puppies involved in sport competitions.


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## BostonBullMama (Apr 20, 2013)

I agree that you absolutely need to "mold" the dog to be what you want it to be.
My Boston Bulldog can be hyper and destructive, or quiet and cuddly. He has days where he aims to please and follows commands easily and others where we can't just drop the leash on our walks because he finds a smell and takes off (I swear he thinks he's a hound). BUT - he's 6 months old and I can't expect my dog to behave in any other way then the way dogs behave. Afterall, he's a dog. 

If you want perfection, you need to teach perfection. Training is time consuming and I personally wouldn't choose to rely on someone else to do it for me. It's a bonding opportunity that can be detrimental to your relationship. You and the dog need to build a trust in eachother and a friendship. 
If you think you'd like a dalmation, then get one. I've seen some great dogs who were dalmations and were amazingly trained - but don't expect it to come that way. I'm sure those families went through a few pairs of socks to get the dog to where it is today.

German Shephards are also fantastic dogs. You've mentioned yours is too dominant? Is s/he trained? I've never known a properly trained Shephard to be dominant, they tend to enjoy pleasing their masters and wait anxiously for their next "job". 

I just hope you're not going into this with the expectation of a perfect dog right out of the gate.... dogs are dogs and should be treated as such.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

dogdragoness said:


> No GSD I ever had the experience of knowing was "dominant" (I hate that dirty word) there is no such thing as dominant in the world of the demestic dog ... Just so you know. There is only trained & untrained, a dominant dog is often a misunderstood untrained one


Oh he is trained.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

blenderpie said:


> You didn't really answer the question....the more specific you can be the better. I know It's tempting to speak in generalities.
> 
> For example, I'm not a person who wants to spend more than an hour actively walking my dog. 30-45 minutes is more ideal. I have one dog that's fine with a half an hour, and one that will need much more. To compensate, we're building some agility equipment out of PVC and hopefully, she'll learn to love her frisbee.
> 
> ...


Hey, 

Well I'll be CKC (cause in Canadian),AKC and eventually world wide.

I can see myself spending a good 30-45 exercise but I do go out a lot so I want to bring my dogs with me also, medium to large breeds. I wanna dog I can training all kinds of different tricks.

I see myself grooming my dog 1 a week or 3-4 times every two weeks. 

I live right by a really nice place to go hiking in summer and spring and maybe the fall its steep and about 4 hours long we also by many safe parks and a dike. I do ride horses.

Any other questions ill answer all


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

BostonBullMama said:


> I agree that you absolutely need to "mold" the dog to be what you want it to be.
> My Boston Bulldog can be hyper and destructive, or quiet and cuddly. He has days where he aims to please and follows commands easily and others where we can't just drop the leash on our walks because he finds a smell and takes off (I swear he thinks he's a hound). BUT - he's 6 months old and I can't expect my dog to behave in any other way then the way dogs behave. Afterall, he's a dog.
> 
> If you want perfection, you need to teach perfection. Training is time consuming and I personally wouldn't choose to rely on someone else to do it for me. It's a bonding opportunity that can be detrimental to your relationship. You and the dog need to build a trust in eachother and a friendship.
> ...



He is well trained. He is just so head strong I love him to death he is my first own dog. Also, the reason shepherds are to much for me, he is very picky about his dog friends he can be good one minute and then very angry the next unless he is raised then he is friendly or if there puppies he likes puppies a lot he protects strange pups when we go out, like literally stand run or play with them and if another dog is to rough he will interrupt and check the pup over. 

He is also not very affectionate, he is the type to be happy your home and then go do his own thing right away. He is frm Slovakian working lines Czech republic I believe.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Sounds like you might be better with something alittle less independent and more people- responsive-- you could go for a standard poodle-- just keep her in a puppy clip (I have a giant schnauzer- trim is no sweat-- brushing once a week and just shave everything off every 3 months, SWEET -- just buy good clippers , a groomer can give you trips and watch a UTUBE video or two first couple times)....
A Standard poodle can do everything you just mentioned, and more , quite personable dogs!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Rat Terriers? Not very terrier like in general, get along well with people, other dogs, and cats (though not small animals), tend to be quiet, great activity level when you give it to them, awesome off switch when you don't, good off leash reliability. Just all around EASY dogs. No real coat to speak of, though.

Oh and they're just going official all the way in the terrier class for AKC in June, have had UKC status for a bit, and competition with them isn't QUITE as crazy as some of the other breeds.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

When you say "Show" do you mean looks and confirmation, or do you mean obedience, and agility, etc. ? 

From your description, it sounds like you could socialize your GSD with more different types of dogs, and with more people.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

PaigeVictoria said:


> Hey everyone my name is Paige,
> 
> I am not a new dog owner but I am looking to find my next show dog, I can not decide on a breed, so I was looking for some sort of kick in the right direction.
> 
> ...


The dalmations I've known are VERY high energy. If it's the energy level of the GSD that you're wishing you could dail down, a Dalmation might not be a step in the right direction.

What size dog are you considering?


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

packetsmom said:


> The dalmations I've known are VERY high energy. If it's the energy level of the GSD that you're wishing you could dail down, a Dalmation might not be a step in the right direction.
> 
> What size dog are you considering?


Medium I large, I have been researching Great Danes some ppl at my work said there smart and athletic but lazy too



hanksimon said:


> When you say "Show" do you mean looks and confirmation, or do you mean obedience, and agility, etc. ?
> 
> From your description, it sounds like you could socialize your GSD with more different types of dogs, and with more people.


I mean show like CKC like Westminster dog show, and agility


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Rat Terriers? Not very terrier like in general, get along well with people, other dogs, and cats (though not small animals), tend to be quiet, great activity level when you give it to them, awesome off switch when you don't, good off leash reliability. Just all around EASY dogs. No real coat to speak of, though.
> 
> Oh and they're just going official all the way in the terrier class for AKC in June, have had UKC status for a bit, and competition with them isn't QUITE as crazy as some of the other breeds.


A little to small for me. I'd be too scared about stepping on him


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

BernerMax said:


> Sounds like you might be better with something alittle less independent and more people- responsive-- you could go for a standard poodle-- just keep her in a puppy clip (I have a giant schnauzer- trim is no sweat-- brushing once a week and just shave everything off every 3 months, SWEET -- just buy good clippers , a groomer can give you trips and watch a UTUBE video or two first couple times)....
> A Standard poodle can do everything you just mentioned, and more , quite personable dogs!


I have net quite a few and there all really sketchy, I only know one sweet and affectionate standard poodle but her brother is l scared of everything and everyone


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I have net quite a few and there all really sketchy, I only know one sweet and affectionate standard poodle but her brother is l scared of everything and everyone


 Thats weird because they are quite popular in SF-- one dog walker I walk with just walks Standards-- up to 7 at a time-- and they are boisterous athletic dogs that give my Giant Schnauzer a run for her money (and she can be a rough player)... Are the ones you see from a reputable Breeder?

Hmmm there is a guy in my neighborhood who has had his Irish Terrier for 14 years, seems like a fine dog and not as small as a Rat Terrier and not so off the hook energetic as some of the breeds mentioned previously(also pretty well behaved he walked him off leash for as long as I have seen him around- 10 years or so)...


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

If you're looking at Great Danes remember they are XL not large and they require XL everything that includes XL money for any problems they might have. They are prone to bloating and have to wait 45minutes-1 hours after eating so that they don't have the chance to bloat, but it can still happen at any time. What about the collies I mentioned, if you don't like the long haired ones they have short hair ones and they are energetic but not annoyingly so. The short haired ones don't need as much grooming as the long hair but do need grooming.


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## hueyeats (Apr 2, 2013)

So... what happen to the GSDs (they)????
Since you are allergic???

You still have them?


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

What about a Lagotto Romagnolo? Seem like happy affectionate dogs. They can be shown in CKC shows, AKC misc classes, and Internationally. 

They have that curly coat that seems to be one of the better for people with allergies.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Also keep in mind that a well bred dog won be cheap & a rare breed won be cheap either.

Something to think about


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> A little to small for me. I'd be too scared about stepping on him


I realize you want a bigger dog, but they come in two sizes. The two I have now are 18 and 15.5" tall. They're WAY out of the 'step on' territory. They're not technically even small


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah most "standard" size rat terriers are jack Russell sized & I don't consider bear "so small I'm afraid ill step on him" size range ... No more easier to step on then any of my bigger dogs lol.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

dogdragoness said:


> Yeah most "standard" size rat terriers are jack Russell sized & I don't consider bear "so small I'm afraid ill step on him" size range ... No more easier to step on then any of my bigger dogs lol.


.
Some can actually be bigger than most JRTs and well within standard. Similar weight with some, but taller. Tall beagle, or smallish border collie height. Weight varies by build, but yeah. It's not exactly a dog you'll trod on. If Jack, at 18", were built like a lab he'd weigh 35 lbs instead of 25. He's got a lot of leg and relatively fine bone, but they're DEFINITELY not little.









I mean you MIGHT be able to step on him, but it would be hard 

(OP, I know they're still smaller than you like - a lot of people just think they're all (or even mostly) toy sized dogs, and that's just not true. Some do weigh 10lbs but the heights are 10-13" and 13"-18". Most fall somewhere in the middle.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

hueyeats said:


> So... what happen to the GSDs (they)????
> Since you are allergic???
> 
> You still have them?


I only have one and he is going nowhere he is my dog till the end.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

dogdragoness said:


> Yeah most "standard" size rat terriers are jack Russell sized & I don't consider bear "so small I'm afraid ill step on him" size range ... No more easier to step on then any of my bigger dogs lol.


I don't want a small dog though. Or curly coated. I know there are short haired dogs that are what I'm asking about


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I don't want a small dog though. Or curly coated. I know there are short haired dogs that are what I'm asking about


We're not suggesting them for you. We were distracted by 'small enough to step on'. You're talking about dogs that range up to 35lbs. That's smaller than you want and that's perfectly fine, but that's not small


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah sorry we kind of got OT talking about our dogs, I will say that my BIG dogs are far more underfoot then my small one hahaha 

I woulc give rescue or shelter a try since this is your first dog, often times the staff will work with you in finding a dog to suit your needs & if they dont/wont then find one who will ... but most of them genuinely love the dogs they care for & want them to find loving, lasting homes.


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

Assuming you have calculated the cost of having showing as a hobby (expensive) and you know the breed will run you in the thousand region. Have you considered a herding breed? I know you said medium to large so they're on the smaller side. You may still have an allergic reaction but I have pretty bad allergies and I live with my pap and aussie quite fine. You said a dog for agility and to teach tricks. You want a dog that is less independent and more velcro. I read all your answers for your wants and besides the allergies (you can visit a breeder to see if this would be an issue) and Australian shepherd or collie might be a good breed. Given you find someone with less herding lines, which is normally the case for conformation breeding. Then less drive to herd. My Aussie was unusually calm for the breed, but I just picked the pup that was the thinker, not timid but not hyper and crazy. He's good inside, lies down and cuddles, even if we don't go for a full on 3 hr outside trip for a few days. But he's definitely up for any adventure when we are leaving the house. Given you want a dog for training. Might be something to consider  

And the coat is double coat but not too much grooming. And not really curly.


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

WARNING: VELCRO DOG ALERT!! Keep in mind they are very close to you. I never had to teach him recall that much because he's so attached and even inside he always wants to be by me. And follows me to brush my teeth :/ And sadly he gets tripped over some days because he's so underfoot or I wake up with him creeping closer to me on the bed....lol I need to catch that on camera one night XP


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

How about a lab. Or a Rhodesian Ridgeback (female)....


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> We're not suggesting them for you. We were distracted by 'small enough to step on'. You're talking about dogs that range up to 35lbs. That's smaller than you want and that's perfectly fine, but that's not small


If you read everything, I corrected too height 23inches or higher


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

dogdragoness said:


> Yeah sorry we kind of got OT talking about our dogs, I will say that my BIG dogs are far more underfoot then my small one hahaha
> 
> I woulc give rescue or shelter a try since this is your first dog, often times the staff will work with you in finding a dog to suit your needs & if they dont/wont then find one who will ... but most of them genuinely love the dogs they care for & want them to find loving, lasting homes.


I wrote this is NOT my first dog and I'm strictly looking for a papered show dog.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

CuddlyKat said:


> WARNING: VELCRO DOG ALERT!! Keep in mind they are very close to you. I never had to teach him recall that much because he's so attached and even inside he always wants to be by me. And follows me to brush my teeth :/ And sadly he gets tripped over some days because he's so underfoot or I wake up with him creeping closer to me on the bed....lol I need to catch that on camera one night XP


I work with an Aussie I get so frazzled he drives my nose crazy lol, I'm glad you took the time and actually read my entire posts


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> If you read everything, I corrected too height 23inches or higher




Again: *We're not suggesting them for you. We were distracted by 'small enough to step on'. *

It's an online forum. Posts wonder and discussions not directly pertaining to yours happen. It doesn't mean we're not reading. It means we're having another discussion inspired by something you said. It's the nature of the beast. It's OKAY.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Have you been to any shows? If you really want to show, I would start there. It will give you a good feel for the amount of grooming (showing a standard poodle, for example, is a difficult job - grooming has to be top notch). It's also good to see what the environment is like for different breeds. A welshie breeder I met said she almost got into Westies, but found the people showing them to be catty and unfriendly. Then she met Welshie people who were nice and supportive and that became her breed. 

Also consider, if you really want to show, how popular the breed is. With very popular breeds, it can be extremely hard to get anywhere without a professional handler. It can be done, but you will have to gain a lot of experience first and have a really really nice dog. In less common breeds it's usually mostly owner-handlers, but then you can have difficulty finding enough dogs in a show to get a major win. I have a rare breed, and most shows I've looked at in my area only have 1-2 Welsh entered (judging by past entries), and I need 4 for a major. When the time comes, I may end up just paying a handler to take him around to the bigger shows and finish him.


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## Rowdy (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm going to second a collie, either rough or smooth. They're famously good (as a rule) with other critters and kids. They have a great indoor "off switch" and are easily trained to be trustworthy off leash.

My 2 are not by nature in-your-face tail wagging, face-licking, love-demanding dogs. But both of them want to be by their people and both of them love to be petted and played with.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Rowdy said:


> I'm going to second a collie, either rough or smooth. They're famously good (as a rule) with other critters and kids. They have a great indoor "off switch" and are easily trained to be trustworthy off leash.
> 
> My 2 are not by nature in-your-face tail wagging, face-licking, love-demanding dogs. But both of them want to be by their people and both of them love to be petted and played with.


 thank you  i said collie and she doesn't respond so idk if she's not looking for one or just doesn't see my posts


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I work with an Aussie I get so frazzled he drives my nose crazy lol, I'm glad you took the time and actually read my entire posts


That sucks. The personality would have been a good fit it seems. Have you considered a bearded dog? Like a bearded collie? It seems like you might be allergic to the dander that is common for dogs with fur. Unfortunately there are not many medium to large size dogs with hair not fur and the hair not being curly....


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

kcomstoc said:


> thank you  i said collie and she doesn't respond so idk if she's not looking for one or just doesn't see my posts


I think she may not be able to handle the fur on a collie if aussies send allergies into hyper drive ....


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

I was thinking smooth coated....i thought maybe that would be better


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I wrote this is NOT my first dog and I'm strictly looking for a papered show dog.


Couple things:

1. Why do you want a "show dog" specifically? Do you want to breed, or just show?

2. How much do you know about conformation showing? Have you ever done it? Do you have any friends who show dogs?

3. How much are you willing to spend on a dog? Keep in mind that dogs on a show/breeding contract typically cost a lot more than ones on a spay/neuter contract.

It concerns me a bit that you want a "show dog" yet have no breeds in mind. People get into showing as a hobby, because they love a breed and don't mind spending tons of money to help better that breed. You seem to want to show just to show, which I don't really understand. It's also going to be hard to find someone who will sell you a show dog if you haven't shown before (show dogs have to remain unaltered, so the breeder has to really trust you).


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> Couple things:
> 
> 1. Why do you want a "show dog" specifically? Do you want to breed, or just show?
> 
> ...



I want to show to better a breed I like, my friend Leah who has been showing for years is going to teach me and I'll be entering shows. 

NO I DO NOT WANT TO SHOW SO I CAN JUST SAY I'VE DONE IT. I want to better my breed of choosing, which I'm still trying to figure out. 

I mentioned dogs are my passion I wan my life to be around them. 

Yes I have a few breeds in mind but I'm looking for a breed not as crazy high energy as my German shepherd. I have been recommended the Doberman I've always fancied them, also I've always fancied Dalmatians Akitas and the dogue de bordaoux jus to name a few. I also have always loved collies but they may catch a reaction the same as an Aussie.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

kcomstoc said:


> I was thinking smooth coated....i thought maybe that would be better


I was getting your posts, just so many to reply to an I was getting frazzled on how off topic it got.

I like collies but I think I'd react poorly to the fur. It's not a bad hives its just an itchy nose


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## Gogoclips (Apr 27, 2013)

Like you I am allergic to many dogs, but I seem to be doing fine with the whippet pup we got a little more than a month ago. They are supposed to be fairly low-shedding and low-dander. They are high energy when outside, loves to run, chase, but we're still working on the jumping. Most of the day though, he's a snuggle-bug. Always has to either be in my husband's or my lap. Or with his chin on us. Or a paw. Our's is only 4 months so I don't know much, but I went to a whippet show a couple of days ago and wow they are elegant dogs! They really had such beautiful forms, were so well mannered and focused at the task at hand. Breed specific traits are that they're not very noisy, are suitable for apartment living because all they typically need are a good walk a day and some space for zoomies. They are supposed to have good recall...until they see a squirrel or any other moving thing, and are notorious for backing out of collars.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I want to show to better a breed I like, my friend Leah who has been showing for years is going to teach me and I'll be entering shows.
> 
> NO I DO NOT WANT TO SHOW SO I CAN JUST SAY I'VE DONE IT. I want to better my breed of choosing, which I'm still trying to figure out.


Do you plan to breed? Breeders show dogs to prove that they're breeding quality... it's not just for fun. I mean, by all means, get a dog and show it and enjoy yourself if you want to do it for fun, but you're not actually bettering the breed unless you're working to produce really high-quality puppies.

And like others have said, look into which breeds have a lot of competition. You pretty much need to hire a pro handler in some breeds if you want to get any points, which would defeat the purpose for you. Also keep grooming in mind; you need a dog you can groom by yourself before a show.

Dobermans are high energy and very velcro. If GSDs aren't the right match for you, dobes wouldn't be, either (there is also INSANE competition with dobes at dog shows). Akitas shed A LOT and I'm sure the amount of dander they produce would aggravate your allergies. Dalmatians shed constantly, these weird little hairs with barbed ends.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

What about a Greyhound? 

Short fur
Would be okay with a 30-45 mins of excerise 
Likes to sleep and cuddle

The only down side is they are not good off leash. Other then that they are WONDERFUL dogs. 

What about a Boxer?

Short fur
The ones I have met are okay with 45-50 mins of exercise a day.
They also love to cuddle and sleep. Good at agility.
With proper training they can be great dogs. I know of quite a few that are great off leash as well.


I would not suggest a Doberman, Dalmatian, Akita, Aussie, Border collie or Collie based on what you have stated. Such as the energy level you are looking for and that the fur bothers you.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Damon'sMom said:


> The ones I have met are okay with 45-50 mins of exercise a day.


Not picking on you, but as a breed boxers are CRAZY high energy and super, duper, exuberant, physical and pretty hard to handle. Like border collie energy but instead of ball obsession and needing to run they want to wrestle for four hours a day.


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> Yes I have a few breeds in mind but I'm looking for a breed not as crazy high energy as my German shepherd. I have been recommended the Doberman I've always fancied them, also I've always fancied Dalmatians Akitas and the dogue de bordaoux jus to name a few. I also have always loved collies but they may catch a reaction the same as an Aussie.


These breeds are all extremely different. Dalmatian/Doberman would likely be a step up in terms of energy from a GSD (even a working line one). Dalmatian in particular need to run_ a lot_ and are notorious for the lack of off switch you ask for.

I think you need to take some time and consider what traits you're looking for before choosing breeds at all. Dalmatians (and many Dobes) will require an hour minimum daily of _hard_ exercise. They're good for very active people who want velcro dogs and quite handler sensitive. Akita - as I understand it- will have a slightly lower exercise requirement but is the opposite of Dal/Dobe with a very aloof temperament. An independent thinker with natural protective (or aggressive) instincts requires a very experienced handler.

Dogue de Bordeaux is a whole different ballgame again. Not hugely athletic by nature, nothing close to the need to run like a Dal/Dobe. Mastiff, can be very stubborn...

I think you need to firm up what you're looking for before choosing a breed. You say your current dog is higher energy than what you'd like so consider how much exercise is ideal. Two walks a day? A jog? Two hours of working the dog? Do you like a velcro dog or an aloof one? Friendly with strangers or suspicious/aloof? General size, allergy requirements, intelligence, trainability... Your current list spans the whole spectrum on all these traits. My suggestion is that you decide on the traits, then pick the breed instead of the other way around.

EDIT: Just looked over it all again. I definitely don't think an Akita or Dogue would be a good match. Neither are famously trainable or the 'love everyone' type. Also, type of exercise matters a lot. Is it 30-45 minutes of walking or jogging, or hard working the dog? Dals and Dobes seem to me to be too high energy. What about a lab? They fit everything nicely.


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

I don't know how much shedding or exercise a Weim needs but you could look that breed over, I always thought they were alluring  they have a short coat so little-no grooming there. Just not sure if they shed a lot or need lots of exercise


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

The idea of showing papered dogs is to hopefully better whatever breed is picked to show. It sometimes takes years to attain knowledge of a breed to better a breed.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

CptJack said:


> Not picking on you, but as a breed boxers are CRAZY high energy and super, duper, exuberant, physical and pretty hard to handle. Like border collie energy but instead of ball obsession and needing to run they want to wrestle for four hours a day.


It's okay.  Your right in saying most boxers need more then then that. Mine gets 3-4 hours a day. I have met a lot around here (at shows) that are okay with around an hour a day however.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Damon'sMom said:


> It's okay.  Your right in saying most boxers need more then then that. Mine gets 3-4 hours a day. I have met a lot around here (at shows) that are okay with around an hour a day however.


Yeah ours lived in a condo with us most of their lives and def settled grt after about age 3 (and we had a new baby by then , so they def went thru almost a year with really short little 30 mins walks twice a day).... But they also could switch and go into the back country with us as well wearing their own backpacks.... Just great dogs..... You are up in canada though right, not sure how they would do in a really cold place (our def liked their beds and blankies and comfort).... great people dogs though and such clowns, they reminded me a bit of CptJacks description of her Miss Bugs (my daughter made both into mummies one day with a roll of toilet paper.... I was not too pleased at the time...)....


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

I will not own a Labradors there too aloof and poorly bred, I meet them everywhere and there all just crappy none listening some aggressive some not but no way.

I want to better the breed so obviously I know that requires producing puppies. I am not stupid. I have a friend that has grown up in the show world and who has been showing and grooming dogs for 18 years. 

I do not want a sight hound I have a cat. 

I gave answers that were appropriate yet I'm being asked the same stuff and its getting on my last nerve. 

I say this one more time.

Short fur.NOT curly wavy or long.
Lazy indoors and able to get up and go outdoors.
Great with kids cats other dogs an animals. 
Great recall, no dog that is a site hour period.
I am a great trainer so I can handle training of any kind.
Obviously I want a VELCRO I've only mentioned wanting a around the clock lap dog cuddle partner.
I don't want a independent dog cause my GSD is already one.
I work at a doggy daycare so the pup can come to work with me and I can give it a lot of walks. I prefer not a dog that needs -3-5 hour walks, the Radom 4 hour hike yea but not a demanding high energy dog.

Also I don't know how many countless posts I put NO SMALL DOGS medium to extra large. 

Is that good enough or do I need to go into more detail? Excuse the frustration but yeah.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I will not own a Labradors there too aloof and poorly bred, I meet them everywhere and there all just crappy none listening some aggressive some not but no way.
> 
> I want to better the breed so obviously I know that requires producing puppies. I am not stupid. I have a friend that has grown up in the show world and who has been showing and grooming dogs for 18 years.
> 
> ...


BOXERS. Meet every one of those things. WE have 3 cats, and a kid..
Disclaimer- every dog is an individual, though, and there is not guaruntee whatever dog you acquire IS going to be all of those things (although my now 13 yr old Boxer Jane was all of those things, and got her CGC no problem without training)...


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> *I will not own a Labradors there too aloof and poorly bred, I meet them everywhere and there all just crappy none listening some aggressive some not but no way*.
> 
> I want to better the breed so obviously I know that requires producing puppies. I am not stupid. I have a friend that has grown up in the show world and who has been showing and grooming dogs for 18 years.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but that bolded part is just ridiculously inaccurate - especially from someone who wants to be involved in showing - and pretty insulting to the lab owners here. Not sure why my suggestion of a lab (which perfectly fulfills your requirements) would anger you so much or why all these people who took time out of their day to help you are "on your last nerve". 

I don't think I will excuse your frustration. So, no.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I will not own a Labradors there too aloof and poorly bred, I meet them everywhere and there all just crappy none listening some aggressive some not but no way.
> 
> I want to better the breed so obviously I know that requires producing puppies. I am not stupid. I have a friend that has grown up in the show world and who has been showing and grooming dogs for 18 years.
> 
> ...


Well, of course, the internet exists to serve you. :whip:

I think a boxer fits most of these, if you went for one from a line with a calm temperment. A great dane also might fit the bill.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> I will not own a Labradors there too aloof and poorly bred, I meet them everywhere and there all just crappy none listening some aggressive some not but no way.
> 
> I want to better the breed so obviously I know that requires producing puppies. I am not stupid. I have a friend that has grown up in the show world and who has been showing and grooming dogs for 18 years.
> 
> ...



People show and breed for love OF the breed. If you are a-) this picky and b-) this unsure about WHICH breed you want, frankly you don't strike me as someone who should be looking to get into showing and breeding. YOU figure out which breed you are passionate about FIRST.


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## TMFranklin (Apr 29, 2013)

Australian Shepherd?


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

CptJack said:


> People show and breed for love OF the breed. If you are a-) this picky and b-) this unsure about WHICH breed you want, frankly you don't strike me as someone who should be looking to get into showing and breeding. YOU figure out which breed you are passionate about FIRST.


I was going to say something like this, but CptJack beat me to it, which is probably a good thing, because I wasn't going to phrase it as politely. 

Good breeders start breeding because they absolutely adore a breed -- which usually means they've owned at least one or two dogs of that breed as "just pets," plus met many others -- and because they want to work hard and spend a lot of money to make that breed even better. I honestly do not understand how anyone could go, "I want a medium-sized dog and I want to show and breed it because I really want to better the breed, but I don't even know what breed I want." It just does not compute.



> I want to better the breed so obviously I know that requires producing puppies. I am not stupid. I have a friend that has grown up in the show world and who has been showing and grooming dogs for 18 years.


Why don't you ask her for breed suggestions, then? Or better yet, why don't you go to a bunch of shows with her, help her out ringside if she needs it, and meet a bunch of breeds? That's how I discovered a few breeds I could happily own.

Also:



> I will not own a Labradors there too aloof and poorly bred, I meet them everywhere and there all just crappy none listening some aggressive some not but no way.


You want a show-bred dog. You can't base your opinion of a breed on poorly-bred ones. Haven't you met any labs at shows? Do you even attend shows?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Aussie was already suggested and shot down because of allergies.

Surprised to hear about your GSD being independent. They are notoriously velcro. I have a whole herd of them and I can't getup and go anywhere without being followed.

How old are you? For someone claiming to be a great trainer, you don't really seem to have a lot of dog knowledge. I mean, I honestly have NEVER seen ANYBODY describe a Labrador as "aloof". Aloof is the antithesis of what a Labrador Retriever is.....

You might look into a Vizsla or German Shorthaired Pointer, but realistically, they have pretty high energy requirements, as do Boxers (more than GSDs, IMO). A Bullmastiff or Mastiff could also fit your requirements.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> I want to better the breed so obviously I know that requires producing puppies. I am not stupid.


Yes indeed, all you have to do to better a breed is produce puppies.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

aiw said:


> Sorry, but that bolded part is just ridiculously inaccurate - especially from someone who wants to be involved in showing - and pretty insulting to the lab owners here. Not sure why my suggestion of a lab (which perfectly fulfills your requirements) would anger you so much or why all these people who took time out of their day to help you are "on your last nerve".
> 
> I don't think I will excuse your frustration. So, no.


Every lab I've met from "reputable breeders" are horrible, I work at a really grey doggy daycare every lap we get minus one are horrible dogs. The only good ones we got are old. I don't like labs that's my opinion. Plus they don't fit my requirement's. there double coated and extremely high energy.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> People show and breed for love OF the breed. If you are a-) this picky and b-) this unsure about WHICH breed you want, frankly you don't strike me as someone who should be looking to get into showing and breeding. YOU figure out which breed you are passionate about FIRST.


That is my plan. Thank you.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

wvasko said:


> Yes indeed, all you have to do to better a breed is produce puppies.


Obviously not. I know what money is spent to produce and have the "perfect breed to standard"


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

I wanted breed suggestions from other dog fanciers cause all my dogs minus purebred have been mixed breeds.
I love all breeds thats my problem, don't get me wrong I just don't want a small breed.

I'm looking for a laid back dog with a Velcro personality with short hair. 

My shepherd is from Czech lines so working lines he is not the cuddly type he just wants to work work work. 
I considered another shepherd but the fur just kills my nose.

Yes I've met some pretty poorly mannered show Labradors. We have a couple retired show dogs in my day care.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> My shepherd is from Czech lines so working lines he is not the cuddly type he just wants to work work work.


I have a working line dog that is loathe to get out of my lap....


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## blenderpie (Oct 5, 2012)

As someone who worked with animals for years, I completely understand your dislike of labs. It isn't usually the fault of the breed. It's because people who know nothing about dogs or training get them because they're known as good family dogs and then do nothing with them. But I know what you mean, even knowing this, I know I will only admire them from afar.

Couch potato, short hair, reasonably friendly with others, low energy. You need a Great Dane. I would say that a whopper or greyhound would really fit the bill as well. When raising dogs from puppies, It's much easier to train your dog to treat cats with respect. Heck, I even know plenty retired off the track that live with cats just fine. But if you're that against them, Dane.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Harlequin Great Danes are so...pretty. hoto:


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

But I thought she wanted to do dogs sports like agility with the dog-- its going to be tough to find a couch potatoe dog that also excells in agility (well... except the Boxer!, ours were not Hyper freaks at all!!!!)....
Also you seem drawn to Dalmations... we had one as kids -- great dog he even pulled a little red wagon for us--- and you say you have horses-- do you have a yard? Can you just let him out if he gets antsy? Didnt really notice the dog being all of the hook hyper either.... and if you are drawn to the breed I am sure you will accomodate-- and they are def not intense like your description of your GSD. (Mine did shed like crazy though, but the dog was easier than our current Giant schnauzer, but the Boxers were easier than the dalmation)....


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Growing up, one of my best friends HAD to have a Dalmation after the movie 101 Dalmations was re-released. Well, her parents were "those" type of parents and went out and bought a Dalmation pup from who knows what kind of breeder. That poor thing drove itself nuts and spent most of its time in the yard, ignored as it ran constantly. To me, the ones I've interacted with were VERY high energy and would likely do great with someone who was a long-distance runner or who wanted to do flyball and agility...every day. 

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a Dane do agility. I would guess it wouldn't be so good for bones and joints in a giant breed. A boxer, though, I bet would love it.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

PaigeVictoria said:


> That is my plan. Thank you.


I'm now confused (been following this thread for a while). Are you asking us to tell you what breed you're passionate about? I'm sorry if you find that question insulting, but that's what it seems like.

CptJack was saying that you become passionate about a breed, and then decide you'd like to start showing them, because you're so passionate about THAT breed. I agree that this seems like you're starting from the wrong end of things.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> I'm now confused (been following this thread for a while). Are you asking us to tell you what breed you're passionate about? I'm sorry if you find that question insulting, but that's what it seems like.


Don't feel alone with the confused program. How does a person who does not even know what kind of breed they want, know anything about then bettering the breed. 

If it were only that easy. My opinion is that OP may be trying to either test or insult the intelligence of those more dog knowledgeable than he/she is.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

wvasko said:


> Don't feel alone with the confused program. How does a person who does not even know what kind of breed they want, know anything about then bettering the breed.
> 
> If it were only that easy.


This is precisely it. If you'd asked me about what I considered bettering most breeds, I'd stare blankly. If you asked me how to better Rat Terriers and what I would like to see and goals associated with the breed if I had the time, money and energy to breed? I could talk your ear off. 

But I didn't start with someone telling me what breed I was passionate about. I found the breed, owned the breed, fell in love with the breed, have steadily been getting more involved WITH the breed, and then developed an Opinion.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> This is precisely it. If you'd asked me about what I considered bettering most breeds, I'd stare blankly. If you asked me how to better Rat Terriers and what I would like to see and goals associated with the breed if I had the time, money and energy to breed? I could talk your ear off.
> 
> But I didn't start with someone telling me what breed I was passionate about. I found the breed, owned the breed, fell in love with the breed, have steadily been getting more involved WITH the breed, and then developed an Opinion.



Yes, this. I picked my breed because they seemed to mesh well with my personality as a pet and could do fairly well in the dog sports I was interested in. I ended up with a show dog, but I still have no intention of breeding him or bettering the breed because honestly, I know almost nothing about them (compared to the breeders who are actually out there working on the breed). I have gone back and forth with whether I would like to breed some day and have settled on at least learning what I can and proving my own dog in the show/sport world. I've decided I am passionate about the breed and would like to do my part in keeping them around (since they are rare), but there's still a huge jump between owning one show dog and loving the breed, to being ready to breed and having goals for a breeding program. If my dog is bred, it will be because someone far more knowledgeable than I am sees something special in him.

OP, I realize you're looking for breed suggestions here, and we've given you a lot that you have shot down, so I think we're out of ideas. I would suggest going to a dog show and watching as many breeds as you can while you make a list of those that might fit your requirements, then meet those dogs and their breeders. Maybe there is no one breed that fits those bullet points exactly, but when you meet them in person something will click and you will know it's the right breed for you. But in the end, something does really have to "click" for you to put in the time and effort to become a halfway decent breeder.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> This is precisely it. If you'd asked me about what I considered bettering most breeds, I'd stare blankly. If you asked me how to better Rat Terriers and what I would like to see and goals associated with the breed if I had the time, money and energy to breed? I could talk your ear off.
> 
> But I didn't start with someone telling me what breed I was passionate about. I found the breed, owned the breed, fell in love with the breed, have steadily been getting more involved WITH the breed, and then developed an Opinion.


I also don't think it's possible to really know a breed until you've owned and lived with that breed, preferably more than one dog since I've had dogs that, while AKC registered, weren't really examples of some traits of their breed. I think I "know" GSD's...not well enough to breed at all, but I know them as a breed. I've only had 2 shelties in my life, one of which was poorly bred, so although I knew those dogs inside and out, I don't feel I know that breed, not even as well as I know GSD's.

Before I'd even consider showing and breeding, which really isn't in my plans, I'd want to know the breed even better than I know it now. I'd want to have had a few dogs of that breed and developed a real passion for them. Showing and breeding, at least from what I've seen, is like taking on a second job...one that you'll likely end up losing money on and will end up consuming almost all of your free time. The best breeders I've seen do this because they really are that head-over-heels in love with the breed, not necessarily because they are head over heels in love with showing or whelping puppies, even if they enjoy that.

I look at my lifestyle, my finances, and where my passions lie and I know I'm not a breeder or a conformation ring person. If I did fall that head over heels in love with a breed, though, I might just turn my life upside down to do it, just like falling head over heels in love with a dog has had me turn my life upside down a time or two for a dog.

First...I'd look for the breed and the dog you can fall in love with, develop that love through a dog or two, then see where that leads.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

PaigeVictoria said:


> Obviously not. I know what money is spent to produce and have the "perfect breed to standard"



I told myself I wasn't going to get involved, 
but here we go with a reality check:

First, money helps, but certainly won't guarantee you a dream dog,
producing a dream litter, or even getting your bitch pregnant!?!

Second, there are many fine (show) dogs out there but,
except on paper, there is no "perfect" (show) dog - 
this, in any breed (as far as I know). 

Third, even:
- after you finally select your ideal breed,
- and find your ideal breeder,
- with your ideal litter 
- and your ideal puppy,
this does not mean that your puppy will grow to be that ideal specimen!
Sadly, breeding simply doesn't work that way.

You might get lucky and have a pup which grows to be
that magnificent specimen you had hoped for.
But there remains the possibility that your simply
might _not enjoy being shown _...
many dogs do not enjoy the show ring!

And even if you do get a very "nice" puppy and finish your dog, 
depending upon how high (or low) you set your standards,
a championship, in and of itself, does not mean
that the dog is actually "worth" being bred ...

There are countless mediocre champions out there,
and countless "beautiful" champions which are not "breedable".
If a simply championship was a guarantee of overall quality,
we certainly wouldn't see all those health and temperament issues!!!

I'm not trying to be mean here, but
there are a heck of a lot of "_if's_" and "_even so's_"
between you and your ideal, breedable champion show dog.
I would humbly suggest you have a back-up plan,
just in case your dog's show and breeding career
doesn't pan out as you hope!

Best of luck. Truly!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

packetsmom said:


> I also don't think it's possible to really know a breed until you've owned and lived with that breed, preferably more than one dog since I've had dogs that, while AKC registered, weren't really examples of some traits of their breed. I think I "know" GSD's...not well enough to breed at all, but I know them as a breed. I've only had 2 shelties in my life, one of which was poorly bred, so although I knew those dogs inside and out, I don't feel I know that breed, not even as well as I know GSD's.
> 
> Before I'd even consider showing and breeding, which really isn't in my plans, I'd want to know the breed even better than I know it now. I'd want to have had a few dogs of that breed and developed a real passion for them. Showing and breeding, at least from what I've seen, is like taking on a second job...one that you'll likely end up losing money on and will end up consuming almost all of your free time. The best breeders I've seen do this because they really are that head-over-heels in love with the breed, not necessarily because they are head over heels in love with showing or whelping puppies, even if they enjoy that.
> 
> ...



To be honest, I think you need to KNOW more dogs than you can possibly OWN. I mean, I own Jack. I co-own Frost. That's all of 2. I do, however, known several DOZEN RT, at this point, because of my association with the breeder the dogs come from and the breeder I co-own Frost with. Then there are the other dogs I've run into associated with them, and dogs owned by hunters that I run into. Do I know any of them well? Nope. Not yet. I'm working at that on a fairly regular basis. It gives you a decent overview of what happens with the dogs, and the real reason 'having a mentor' is a thing. Owning more is also a good thing, but I'd rather see 'I've met, worked with, and-or been around on a regular basis over a year or two' talking about 50 dogs, than 'I owned 5'. Or even 10. 

I'll never breed, to be honest. I'm not that into it. 

But I DO now know enough to know what I want to see continued in the breed, what I feel passionate about, and the direction I'd like to see the breed go. How can you do that, without even knowing what breed you WANT?

You can't, IMO.



prntmkr said:


> I
> Second, there are many fine (show) dogs out there but,
> except on paper, there is no "perfect" (show) dog -
> this, in any breed (as far as I know).





This is another thing, I skipped right over. Jack's got a visible, obvious, conformation flaw. He's finished. He's danged close to a GrCh, that I've toyed with having his breeder or her friend finish off. He's a DANGED good dog, but his ears are WRONG. Does that mean he shouldn't be bred? No. It means he needs to be bred to a dog that has better ears! Breeders DO this. It's why it takes generations and generations to produce what they want, and not just breeding the same two nice dogs over and over. Jack's got the build, structure, and general size that I consider just about ideal. He's also got the health clearances, working ability, biddability, and temperament. And it's still not just as simple as 'breed to a dog with better ears', and end result = Perfect litter.

Frost IS the product of breeding to a dog with better ears. Frost is closer to what I'd consider ideal, and his size is more solidly within the breed range/height standards, but his build, from his mama, isn't quite right. His ears are also a tetch too small. So now you need a dog with lighter bone, longer legs, bigger ears, to cross HIM to. 

And I'm still simplifying, because none of this is taking into account that the finished 'product' is never finished, or that breed standards are extremely subjective. There's also temperament, working ability, and health and those things are a lot harder to see. And subtle things like length of their nose, where the eyes are set, feet, angulation - whatever.

And even then super simplistic, because I'm not, and have no real desire to be, a breeder. I'm just someone with a love for a fairly low popularity (but gaining) breed, and a happy association with people who do breed them.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Just for the heck of it (and because I'm bored at work) I did the Iams breed quiz based on your requirements (or my best guess of what they would be). These are the results;

Boykin Spaniel71%
Welsh Springer Spaniel71%
Basset Hound69%
American Water Spaniel65%
Vizsla65%


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> To be honest, I think you need to KNOW more dogs than you can possibly OWN. I mean, I own Jack. I co-own Frost. That's all of 2. I do, however, known several DOZEN RT, at this point, because of my association with the breeder the dogs come from and the breeder I co-own Frost with. Then there are the other dogs I've run into associated with them, and dogs owned by hunters that I run into. Do I know any of them well? Nope. Not yet. I'm working at that on a fairly regular basis. It gives you a decent overview of what happens with the dogs, and the real reason 'having a mentor' is a thing. Owning more is also a good thing, but I'd rather see 'I've met, worked with, and-or been around on a regular basis over a year or two' talking about 50 dogs, than 'I owned 5'. Or even 10.
> 
> I'll never breed, to be honest. I'm not that into it.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I'd probably start with going to shows and breed events, getting to know the dogs and their breeders. Then, I'd probably work with my favorite breeders to get a pet quality dog from one of them I admired the most. Then I'd work with that dog and continue to attend shows and breed events. I'd likely get at least one other dog on a spay/neuter contract of that breed and work with them in whatever dog sports are particular to that breed and continue to be active in the local breed club and attend events. Then, after a few years, if I still had that burning passion for that breed, I might work with one of those breeders, which I should know pretty darn well by now, on getting a pup with a show contract. I'd figure it would probably take *at least* 5 years to get from where I am now to there.

For me, that's not where my heart is. I just want to get to know breeds and breeders to find the best pets for my family and love them to pieces. I'd rather not give up even more of my disposable income and time for showing and breeding as well. I admire those who do, but there are things I'd rather do with my limited amounts of free time and money.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> Just for the heck of it (and because I'm bored at work) I did the Iams breed quiz based on your requirements (or my best guess of what they would be). These are the results;
> 
> Boykin Spaniel71%
> Welsh Springer Spaniel71%
> ...


I totally recommended Welshies. Do I win a prize?

I was actually thinking vizsla too, except the ones I have met/heard of are kind of crazy high energy.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> I totally recommended Welshies. Do I win a prize?
> 
> I was actually thinking vizsla too, except the ones I have met/heard of are kind of crazy high energy.


Technically Welshies have a feathered coat, and so are not applicable based on the short coat only requirement specified. Which I did tell the quiz, but it apparently doesn't care. I think Vizsla is the only thing on that list that might fit the requirements, what with basset hounds being short and all.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

ireth0 said:


> Technically Welshies have a feathered coat, and so are not applicable based on the short coat only requirement specified. Which I did tell the quiz, but it apparently doesn't care. I think Vizsla is the only thing on that list that might fit the requirements, what with basset hounds being short and all.


Yes, the short single coat rules out a lot of sporting breeds, which I think otherwise fit the requirements, like spaniels and setters. Weims and vizslas are nice dogs, but tend to the crazy high energy IME.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Standard schnauzer then--have you ever seen an immpeccabley groomed one?-- Just stunning, and they can do just about everything....
Or.. English pointer from show (not field) lines-- would look nice trotting next to your horse, and one was one of my favorite all time companions as a child....


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

BernerMax said:


> Standard schnauzer then--have you ever seen an immpeccabley groomed one?-- Just stunning, and they can do just about everything....
> Or.. English pointer from show (not field) lines-- would look nice trotting next to your horse, and one was one of my favorite all time companions as a child....


We had one in for a groom last month I sat down and she jumped in my lap, didn't even know me but hopped up in my lap and would not move. Sadly he set my nose I a flair


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

Well I've met 2 Dalmatians and I absolutely loved them, one when I was younger and one last Christmas named radar he was so snuggly and really calm. I love everything about Dalmatians but my only concern is how demanding there energy level is...... There the perfect size perfect personality perfect match for me minus the energy level.

NO IM NOT HERE TO DO ANY HARM OR ANYTHING NEGATIVE.

I was here asking for suggesting for the right match for my personality


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## TRDmom (Mar 3, 2013)

I haven't read every suggestion closely, but the Doberman came to mind. Each dog regardless of breed has its own personality. Generally, Dobes tend to chill indoors but are "ready to go" outside. They are athletic and would excel in dog sports, if you're interested in them. Great with respectful children when socialized.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

PaigeVictoria said:


> Well I've met 2 Dalmatians and I absolutely loved them, one when I was younger and one last Christmas named radar he was so snuggly and really calm. I love everything about Dalmatians but my only concern is how demanding there energy level is...... There the perfect size perfect personality perfect match for me minus the energy level.
> 
> NO IM NOT HERE TO DO ANY HARM OR ANYTHING NEGATIVE.
> 
> I was here asking for suggesting for the right match for my personality


So go for the Dal then it sounds like the breed you are drawn to and its really, a diff kind of energy from a GSD- its NOT that kind of intense focused I need a job energy its more like a take the horse for a 5 mile (0r 8 mile) run and I will be next to you and get tired kind of energy (I really didnt notice it as a kid, and believe me I was the primary caretaker--- dad was out of town 300 days a year and Mom did not like "animals")....


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Go to some shows with your friend, get her to introduce you to some breeders, and ask them about the breeds you like. They will be the absolute best people to tell you if a certain breed (and especially their lines of that breed) is good for you.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> This is precisely it. If you'd asked me about what I considered bettering most breeds, I'd stare blankly. If you asked me how to better Rat Terriers and what I would like to see and goals associated with the breed if I had the time, money and energy to breed? I could talk your ear off.


What's that old saying, something about the cart before the horse. 1st you find a breed to fall in love with and then to better the breed, plan on spending 10 years (in most cases more) to attain enough knowledge to think about the "better the breed project" 

Spending money is nothing, knowing what to spend money on is the problem to say nothing of hours/days/months/years of work.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll just add that most breeders I know started by getting a pet dog, and then becoming enamored with the breed; most have stories of their first pet as their inspiration for breeding on their web pages. They also spent a great deal of time at dog events networking with breeders, working with other breeders who acted as mentors, and immersing themselves in the breed and general dog world _before_ obtaining their first breeding dog.


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## PaigeVictoria (Apr 21, 2013)

I have two breeds I love ad will be all over 

Dalmatian being number one and shar pei  

Thanks everyone I appreciate the advice


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Dalmatians are really cute, just be aware (you might already know so I'm sorry if you already know and I'm telling you this) they are known to be deaf easily. If you plan on breeding, be careful  just saying. Shar-peis have skin issues (dry skin and more) make sure you clean in between all the wrinkles  again sorry if you already knew


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

PaigeVictoria said:


> Every lab I've met from "reputable breeders" are horrible, I work at a really grey doggy daycare every lap we get minus one are horrible dogs. The only good ones we got are old. I don't like labs that's my opinion. Plus they don't fit my requirement's. there double coated and extremely high energy.


 Finally saw this. You don't have to want a lab or think they're great but coming from someone who has clearly never been to a show its a little rich to say they're all "crappy" or "horrible dogs".

Also, If you think labs are extremely high energy you're in for a rude awakening with a dalmatian. I think you should go to a few shows _first_ before getting a possible show dog and ask around about what kind of exercise regimen they need. Just a basic google search will show you what you're in for with a Dal.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

aiw said:


> Finally saw this. You don't have to want a lab or think they're great but coming from someone who has clearly never been to a show its a little rich to say they're all "crappy" or "horrible dogs".
> 
> Also, If you think labs are extremely high energy you're in for a rude awakening with a dalmatian. At least go to a few shows *first* before getting a possible show dog and ask around about what kind of exercise regimen they need. Just a basic google search will show you what you're in for with a Dal.


Yeah maybe go with the shar-pei, OP. Labs are definitely in the same league as dalmatians as far as exercise. The rest of your lab opinions I don't agree with but everyones allowed their opinions 

The energy level part is not an opinion though. If you think a lab is too high energy, I definitely would not suggest a dalmatian.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't like labs because they think every thing is a game, your working? It's a game, your scolding them? It's a game, your putting them in time out? It's a game ... Ugh no thanks .

I like a dog who enjoys his work but is serious about it, I like a dog who also takes HIMSELF seriously as well. To me a good dog is a dog who gets his satisfaction out of working for YOU. The job IS his enjoyment. 

& that's why I like ACDs & other working dogs because life ain't a freaking game ... It's serious ****.

But if you don't like high energy, labs & most other sporting breeds & dals might not be the bet fit for you. Shar pei's can also have problems with DA.

If you aren't set on a breed, I would visit a shelter. There you can work with the staff there & "try dogs on" so to speak.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

dogdragoness said:


> I don't like labs because they think every thing is a game, your working? It's a game, your scolding them? It's a game, your putting them in time out? It's a game ... Ugh no thanks .
> 
> I like a dog who enjoys his work but is serious about it, I like a dog who also takes HIMSELF seriously as well. To me a good dog is a dog who gets his satisfaction out of working for YOU. The job IS his enjoyment.
> 
> ...



She wants to show and breed. A shelter dog is not what she's looking for.

I'm opposite you re: labs. The ONLY thing I like about them is how happy they are. My life is serious enough (for me). I want a dog to give me some levity and joy, particularly in training and 'work'. I WANT it to be a game, because what I want most out of a dog is to play.


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## CuddlyKat (Apr 22, 2012)

CptJack said:


> She wants to show and breed. A shelter dog is not what she's looking for.
> 
> I'm opposite you re: labs. The ONLY thing I like about them is how happy they are. My life is serious enough (for me). I want a dog to give me some levity and joy, particularly in training and 'work'. I WANT it to be a game, because what I want most out of a dog is to play.


I'm the opposite. In theory I appreciate that about dogs, they love life and everything is so happy with them and it reminds me to chill out and breathe and enjoy it. But I can't own a dog that can't take things seriously lol I would get frustrated with them snatching things and thinking me getting upset from trying to get it is playing.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

CuddlyKat said:


> I'm the opposite. In theory I appreciate that about dogs, they love life and everything is so happy with them and it reminds me to chill out and breathe and enjoy it. But I can't own a dog that can't take things seriously lol I would get frustrated with them snatching things and thinking me getting upset from trying to get it is playing.


I guess really what I ideally like is balance. Labs are too 'in your face' for me, with their exuberance. I like some self-control and even... dignity, I suppose, but the reason I like training at all is because Kylie erupts into PURE JOY when she gets something right. She's not a goof ball (that's Thud), and she's very intent about her games. It's just that... the game she plays is training. Does that make sense? She's not serious business about it at all, but she's also not goofy. She's all YAHOO, I LOVE THIS OMG OMG OMG TEACH ME MORE, WHEE! DO IT AGAIN! Then there's a rapidly wagging tail, a goofy grin, and an intense stare waiting on the next command, lure, or trick. 

I like that. That's my ideal. If I don't have that, I have years of experience demonstrating to me that I will teach them recall, stay, and basic things of that sort which are absolutely necessary for me to live with them pleasantly and then let it go. 

She's also about right on the hard/soft scale. I can crush Jack with a freaking no reward marker, and if I'm upset at him his life is over, forever. I'd rather they think it's a game. 

Though, um, honestly, I'd say any dogs snatching things is a lack of focus and training, not a personality trait. Thud's the biggest goofball ever, but he has great focus, which makes a difference. 

This whole thing is interesting (the conversation). Who knew labs were a benchmark for what you want or don't in a dog?


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

CptJack said:


> I guess really what I ideally like is balance. Labs are too 'in your face' for me, with their exuberance. I like some self-control and even... dignity, I suppose, but the reason I like training at all is because Kylie erupts into PURE JOY when she gets something right. She's not a goof ball (that's Thud), and she's very intent about her games. It's just that... the game she plays is training. Does that make sense? She's not serious business about it at all, but she's also not goofy. She's all YAHOO, I LOVE THIS OMG OMG OMG TEACH ME MORE, WHEE! DO IT AGAIN! Then there's a rapidly wagging tail, a goofy grin, and an intense stare waiting on the next command, lure, or trick.
> 
> I like that. That's my ideal. If I don't have that, I have years of experience demonstrating to me that I will teach them recall, stay, and basic things of that sort which are absolutely necessary for me to live with them pleasantly and then let it go.
> 
> ...


Its the single minded intensity that drives me crazy--- mom had my sisters 3 legged lab (some farmer shot his leg off when he ran off one day) and she had this trash can full of kitchen scraps at eye level that he wasnt to touch-- and he didnt-- but his achilles heel was any kind of ball-- he would go bonkers fetching that ball and leaving it a your feet and bark at you to throw it for hours gimpy as he was,... That ball thing drove me crazy....
Just my 2cents on the whole lab thing...


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

just a few things I would like to point out about labs 

they can be serious. they are not all goofy. Ahem, guide dogs? When nug has his vest on, he knows he's working. He isn't silly, he doesn't play, he knows whats up and he listens for the next command.

Also, nug has the intense "waiting on the next command" stare perfected as well... just sayin.

this was a down, waiting for an up-sit.


a halt, waiting on a release


and a go get it


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Rescued said:


>


I was pretty grumpy in this thread... But this picture just completely cheered me up!  

Look at that focus! He's obviously better at it than I am....


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Rescued said:


> just a few things I would like to point out about labs


In all honesty, a little critical thinking and I realized that it's not the exuberance I have an issue with - I just prefer dogs who are kind of aloof with strangers and well. Lab. I have similar issues with Bug, to be honest. Husband LOVES IT, and the body slamming and very physical affection that comes with her. It's just not quite my thing.

I deeply love and admire labs - when they're someone else's. They're just too... extroverted for me.


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

Rescued said:


> just a few things I would like to point out about labs
> 
> they can be serious. they are not all goofy. Ahem, guide dogs? When nug has his vest on, he knows he's working. He isn't silly, he doesn't play, he knows whats up and he listens for the next command.
> 
> ...


Nugget is awesome and gorgeous... I love everything about labs.... except the ball thing (same reason I couldnt have a BC -- that intensity around a specific kind of drive)....


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

CptJack said:


> Not picking on you, but as a breed boxers are CRAZY high energy and super, duper, exuberant, physical and pretty hard to handle. Like border collie energy but instead of ball obsession and needing to run they want to wrestle for four hours a day.


Had to reply to this. XD We have a boxer at daycare, named Payton. Oh my gosh.... he needs ball addict therapy. Seriously. Obsessed with the tennis balls, if no one throws it for him, he'll drop it on the ground and bark at it as if it's going to throw itself. It's hilarious!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

SydTheSpaniel said:


> Had to reply to this. XD We have a boxer at daycare, named Payton. Oh my gosh.... he needs ball addict therapy. Seriously. Obsessed with the tennis balls, if no one throws it for him, he'll drop it on the ground and bark at it as if it's going to throw itself. It's hilarious!


It's so weird, but I've met 2 boxers recently, both puppies 6-9 months old, and they are the quietest calmest dogs, with one trending towards timidity. Definitely not like anything I've ever heard or seen before.


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## SydTheSpaniel (Feb 12, 2011)

elrohwen said:


> It's so weird, but I've met 2 boxers recently, both puppies 6-9 months old, and they are the quietest calmest dogs, with one trending towards timidity. Definitely not like anything I've ever heard or seen before.


Boxers are really popular at my daycare, and I've seen pretty much every type. We've got the ball addict, a couple 6-9 month old puppies who bark constantly, we've got the ones who just want to wrestle all day, and then we've got the one who is quiet, calm, and a little timid.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Every boxer I've seen out in public was just bounding all over the place. I don't like the way they look at my small dogs, either. They are way more interested in them than other breeds are, even the more prey-driven breeds I see around.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

yeah we get a lot of boxers in rescue, and wierdly enough..

Im not a big fan of boxers.

No idea why. They're a lot like labs, but too "boundy and goofy" for me. Nug is a more focused and less goofy lab though. I'm not a fan of boxers or poodles in general because they're too silly.


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

I think what bugs people about Labs is not so much their activity level but their lack of regard for personal space and boundaries. Definitely a body slamming in your face kinda dog.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

samshine said:


> I think what bugs people about Labs is not so much their activity level but their lack of regard for personal space and boundaries. Definitely a body slamming in your face kinda dog.


Sure glad Pierce can't read as I don't want to make him mad. He's very sensitive.


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

samshine said:


> I think what bugs people about Labs is not so much their activity level but their lack of regard for personal space and boundaries. Definitely a body slamming in your face kinda dog.


This did not come out quite the way I meant it. And of course it is a broad generalization, there are exceptions. Not being worried about personal space has its benefits too. Labradors rarely take offense when another dog jumps on them in play without observing the social niceties first. They also don't get upset at kids messing with them. Makes them a safe easy going personality.


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