# Herding this weekend (With Aussie, Rottie and Cardi pics!)



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Mirada had a 2 week break from herding so she could come out of season and be less stupid, so yesterday, after having shopped for houses in PA on Saturday, we drove 3 hours to Chesapeake, VA for a "farm fun day". Basically, instead of paying the instructor for the lesson this week, everybody went out to her place and helped her clean up (Worm sheep & trim hooves, clip duck wings, rake the pastures, etc).

Mirada's herding lesson was MUCH more productive this time around.

Jon and I met some wonderful new people and got some great pictures I'd love to share 

Mogwai first of course!













































And now for the next dogs!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Binx the Rott!




































Blitz, the Aussie!


















Drago (Dray-go) the Aussie!


















MOAR!!!


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Justice the Aussie!




































Tessa the Aussie!


















And Whisper the Cardi Corgi!


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Xeph said:


> Justice the Aussie!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some nice pics. I'd prefer to see less outright running.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*shrugs* Justice is a new dog to the best of my knowledge, so that coud be why, don't really know.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Nice herding pics!! Looks like everyone (but the sheep) had a great time.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Mirada looks great! I so rarely see GSDs doing any kind of herding so it's really cool to see the pics.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Love the herding pictures. Mirada certainly appears to enjoy "working" when it come to the sheep.  How cute is that little Corgi? Oh, and of course the Rottie


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

The last duck in the second duck picture looks a little sassy, like it's having a staredown. 

How cute is a corgi herding ducks?!?!!


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## debpass (Oct 13, 2009)

Great pictures Xeph. A friend told us about a place nearby where we could try it with Rick & Ziva. Hopefully it works out for us-it looks like a lot of fun.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

The dogs are full out and the sheep panicked. If these are all beginner dogs why is no one using the shepherd's crook to guide them and a line on them to control them? This looks more like prey drive chasing of sheep.


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## TStafford (Dec 23, 2009)

I'd love to try that with Porter...but I think he would either run away like a little girl or just try to play with the sheep


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> If these are all beginner dogs why is no one using the shepherd's crook to guide them and a line on them to control them?


THey ARE being guided (and not ALL of them are beginner dogs). I tried to crop out people so others could see just dogs and sheep.

The trainer has been doing this for years. No sheep have been eaten thus far that I've seen.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

Just my opinion as I have worked my gsd on sheep years as well. I did not do it for akc titles but rather my dog tended as gsds were meant to. IMO the dogs are being given too much license to run the sheep down and are not "working" the sheep. I am looking at the dogs and the sheep body language to arrive at that conclusion. You have only been herding I think two months?


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Well I'm very sorry, but tending isn't currently available for my girl, and there aren't many people that do it. I just wanted to share some pictures for crying out loud!


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

I applaud any venues to work sheep with your gsd, was not knocking that at all and you are a beginner who is trusting the trainer. Just explaining I have not done AKC style that maybe this willy nilly running is acceptable there? or desired? The rottie is on the job in his photos so I took all the others for basic beginners but would not have let them kick into what looks like prey chasing to me. I notice any time anyone discusses these things or offers advice you really go off the handle so I will make an effort to not respond or ask questions or try to help you in future.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

There's a difference between soliciting advice and just sharing some pictures of something that was fun, for fun.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

when you display online you are opening for discussion


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Yvonne said:


> when you display online you are opening for discussion


Yup. Personally I don't think a "look at these fun pictures!" thread warrants much discussion.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

and like me you are definitely entitled to your opinion, that is what makes a forum. The poster often critiques pics and posts and adverts as well so I assumed her stuff was up for comment when posted publicly. It is not like I was saying something intentionally to her as I bit my tongue er fingers to say why edit the dip in your dogs top line for an ad advertising the dog like I wanted to when the ad was being discussed. IMO a dogs structure should not be edited for promotional sales but I chose not to make that comment as I knew it would not be appreciated. By bringing up what I see in these herding photos I was discussing not picking. I was offering an experienced conversation to a beginner. So again she runs and her friends come tell me I am a terrible person because it has offended her to have someone try and discuss something she posts that is not more than oh how cute or cool it is an actual forum discussion.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

Nobody's calling you a terrible person. Just offering a possible explanation for Xeph's reaction other than that she never wants any advice or help. *shrug*


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## upendi'smommy (Nov 12, 2008)

I just wanted to point out that Mirada does NOT have a dip in her topline and so there was most certainly no dip edited out in the ad. I have had my hands on her and she is a lovely little bitch with a nice topline and really is nicely put together. I don't know where you are getting the idea that Xeph is editing her dog into something it is not, especially since Xeph isn't even the one who made the ad. If you have a problem or questions with what was done with the ad take it up with Sizzledog.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

"#1 was my preference, but I was concerned about what you mentioned (her head fading into the background). I'd have to have somebody fix the dent in her croup in #4 "

I am sorry it was the croup not the top line. I stand corrected. With the previous posts with needing to firm up the top line, I did not assume it was the photo but was some more issues in the top line.

Bottom line is I sought to help and forgot you are not allowed to speak to her yet again. I will try to remember in future.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Yvonne said:


> I applaud any venues to work sheep with your gsd, was not knocking that at all and you are a beginner who is trusting the trainer. Just explaining I have not done AKC style that maybe this willy nilly running is acceptable there? or desired? The rottie is on the job in his photos so I took all the others for basic beginners but would not have let them kick into what looks like prey chasing to me. I notice any time anyone discusses these things or offers advice you really go off the handle so I will make an effort to not respond or ask questions or try to help you in future.


I have done AKC style and no, chasing or running stock will get time called on you pretty fast. It's pretty normal for green dogs to be pushy and not know how to rate stock (in fact, I'd say it is pretty unusual for them not to have those issues). But it can be hard on the stock. Can be helped by using heavier stock or a smaller area in the early stages. BTW, AKC does have a tending course - it's called C. But because of the number of sheep and the amount of space it takes, I've only seen it at an AKC seminar and at one trial down in TX. Interesting to watch though.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

Thank you pawz for replying and answering about the issue. Good information to thanks.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Yvonne said:


> Thank you pawz for replying and answering about the issue. Good information to thanks.


Another consideration - I'm assuming that since you've been doing tending, you are used to working with a fairly large group of sheep. It's a lot easier to get 3 or 5 sheep to run (and the dog into chase mode) as those sheep just don't feel that safety in a crowd. Working big groups is wonderful, because it teaches the dog to cover the stock and how to move it without the stock getting squirty. Unfortunately, it's not always an option.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

very true. The flocks I worked numbered more than 150 and less than 700 at any given time over a farm size of 600 acres. I am at a loss that I do not still live in that area and now need to find a new flock to teach my male pup on. When training a new dog there we also used buddy system of a trained dog around a young dog and they seemed to get the calmer demeanor or the trained dog and did not fly into prey drive it seemed. It was owned by Mennonites and I learned from them and of course they do not do it for awards but rather every day care of their stock so I do not know how the competitions work versus what I was taught with my dogs. I just wanted my dogs to work doing what they were intended to do and it did not matter to me that they pass a test lol They shepherds were pleased and it was their living so that was good enough for me.


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## Deron_dog (Feb 21, 2009)

Probably gonna get in trouble here, but Xeph it looked like to me as I said to you last night that Mirada was focusing more on the Trainer this time then the Previous time. But this is my own Opinion. 

As for your comments Yvonne, you never seem willing to accept that any one elses dogs can do the job as good as yours, if were all doing it wrong why don't you show us newbs how its done. You know show us Pictures of your dogs doing there Job the way its supposed to be done instead of just saying.

This is how I do A and your Doing it WRONG. 

I'm done here in this post and I'm not defending anyone I'm just saying my own thoughts on the Matter.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

lol um yeah you go ahead and think that.




wow and I am the mannerless one lol


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## PretzleDog (Jun 9, 2010)

Holy cow people! Note to self: Don't post photos of anything other than dog lying on couch.

Xeph: I enjoyed the photos, thanks for posting.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Look, here's the thing. You keep saying I'm not willing to accept advice. You have not GIVEN any advice (and if you think you have, you may want to look at how you presented it). The way your comments were presented were basically "Herding: Ur doin' it wrong!"

We do not have the time or financial resources to drive 9 hours in one direction to Ulf (who will not take us anyway due to the distance) or Geary (same thing). C Course, which is AKC tending, is, as Pawz said, often not feasible. It is generally not offered at trials and trying to find a TRAINER for it is very very difficult.

As Pawz also mentioned, it is a lot easier to split 3 to 5 sheep than it is 20+. The sheep do not feel secure. They do not feel they have a leader and thus don't know what to do. Lots of the "chasing" you may be noting, is the dog preparing to bring in a sheep that has strayed out. My trainer does NOT like and does NOT allow dogs to chase just to chase. She nips it in the bud as quickly as possible and tries to get the dogs to "switch gears" and understand the game as fairly and as quickly as she can. She wants the dog to be successful, and her sheep to be unhurt.

And again, as Pawz said, it is not unusual for a new dog to chase the sheep. It's normal. The first time Mirada was on sheep, she DID chase them, but she did not try to take any down, and within a couple of minutes she understood that chasing was NOT what she was there for. The trainer was guiding her with a paddle.

With each progressive lesson, the chasing quits earlier (within seconds). Right now she is working in the round pen, to help her build confidence, and to teach her how to turn. This is harder with her than with Aussies or BCs, because as you know, GSDs are not meant to "fetch up" the sheep. They do not have the same natural inclination to bring the sheep to the handler. They want to keep them in a group, in a single area.

Mirada has not yet figured out the balance point of the stock, and as such tends to stay behind the sheep and ONLY turn to the heads when she feels it's absolutely necessary. That is not often (maybe ONCE a lesson...twice if we're lucky). She would rather be at the butt end. When she DOES try to turn, she often splits the sheep (right now) because she's not understanding that balance point. She DOES stop and think and not immediately tear after a random wooly. She brings the sheep back to the group, and starts over.

This last lesson she stopped doing so much running, and a lot of her time was spent trotting, trying to understand her work better. And she trotted behind or slightly behind and alongside the sheep. She even cut in to STOP the direction the sheep were going at one point (which is what we wanted, because she is reluctant to do that).

As much as I want my little bitch to trial on C Course, chances are she will get her titles on A course, because that's what everybody teaches, and so myself and my dog MUST adapt to that.


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## Yvonne (Aug 6, 2010)

You still do not get it..... I was asking a question of all the photos as a group I was NOT attacking YOUR dog. You don't listen enough to get what people say to you once you take offense which is super easy considering how you take apart singer, performers, and yes even Christmas displays. For someone who rips things apart on here all the time no one can have a simple conversation with anything you love because you auto look for a reason to be insulted. You are a very prickly person and nothing was meant to attack your dog I even said you and your dog are a beginner jeesh omg bang my head in a wall and slam my fingers in a door I am done with you good luck in your dog endeavors and I am not insulted because so many people have contacted me and told me to give up because anything they have ever said to you was treated the same way. I hope you do learn as you age how to be with people on an adult level. Have fun


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Yvonne said:


> You are a very prickly person and nothing was meant to attack your dog I even said you and your dog are a beginner jeesh omg bang my head in a wall and slam my fingers in a door I am done with you. I hope you do learn as you age how to be with people on an adult level. Have fun


Yvonne, don't take this the wrong way, but I am honestly at loss right now. Where, within this thread, did Xeph act in a way to get such a response? Did she post something and then edit it so it is no longer viewable, or...? She followed your question with the elaboration you appeared to be looking for in the post above, so did I miss something...??


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

Oh my jeeezus for real?

How come every time Xeph post pictures of something there ends up being a huge discussion about nonsense? Always from posters who seem to have a know it all attitude or at least come across that way IMHO. I've "known" Xeph on this forum for a couple years now and I've never known her as anything but nice and EXTREMELY knowledgeable about GSDs. 


Great pics Xeph and I'm glad Rada is improving  Those sheep don't look very panicked to me.... but maybe I define what panic looks like differently.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

*Runs around with hair on fire* AHHH AHHH AHH!!! HOT!!! HOT!! HOT!! PUTMEOUTPUTMEOUTPUTMEOUT!!!!

Does it look something like that?


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

<----Lacktus Intolerant.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

LOL! The lacktus apparently created the blacktus!


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Xeph said:


> *Runs around with hair on fire* AHHH AHHH AHH!!! HOT!!! HOT!! HOT!! PUTMEOUTPUTMEOUTPUTMEOUT!!!!
> 
> Does it look something like that?


Only a really advanced dog can work with flaming sheep.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Only a really advanced dog can work with flaming sheep.


So many jokes, so little time.

Fun thread has returned to fun.


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

Yeah.. something along those lines. They have to have the look in their eyes that everyone at the Grammys had when Kanye interrupted Taylor Swift LOL

Flaming sheep are teh awesum


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

FilleBelle said:


> Only a really advanced dog can work with flaming sheep.


I'm reminded of Family Guy when Quagmires plane crashed into a school for bunnies, and all you see are flaming bunnies flying out of the building....


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Hahahha, yeahhhhh


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Wow, really surprised by the some of the negativity, I thought the pictures were great Xeph. 

And, I just couldn't resist.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

HAHAHA! Flaming sheep! 

You win an internet.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

Xeph, you may as well not do anything with your dog anymore. You obviously have a frog legged, sloped back, crippled, sheep eating dog whose stifles are 2.68 inches too long, with hocks that form an imperfect 90.75 degree angle with the ground, that is good for nothing except a pretty picture (and even the pictures beg commenting on! They're so blurry I can't even see your dog's dew claw! Even if they are removed!), so why do you even bother? Switch to cockapoos or something instead. Save yourself.


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## pittsabowawa (Jul 26, 2009)

KM and MissMutt totally win this thread! ROFLMAO... I couldnt' see the dew claws either:suspicious:


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

This is a fun thread now but I'm gonna drop a truth bomb on it: Don't own a breed anyone else owns. Don't exhibit/compete in any thing they do. Sticks will be up their butts for absolutely no reason other than to have a "I'M experienced and better." pissing match. 

I bet none of your dogs can lay a dump on the carpet like Jonas. So there.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I dunno, if you switch foods on Strauss, I bet he could make a wicked poo bomb. It would totally out shine Jonas's dump-o-rama.



> Xeph, you may as well not do anything with your dog anymore. You obviously have a frog legged, sloped back, crippled, sheep eating dog whose stifles are 2.68 inches too long, with hocks that form an imperfect 90.75 degree angle with the ground, that is good for nothing except a pretty picture (and even the pictures beg commenting on! They're so blurry I can't even see your dog's dew claw! Even if they are removed!), so why do you even bother? Switch to cockapoos or something instead. Save yourself.


I think I love you, so what am I so afraid of?

LOL!!!!

Thanks MM xD


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

But Jonas is a RESCUE. From the hard scrabble streets to holder of AKC's hidden gem championship title: Floor dumping.


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> This is a fun thread now but I'm gonna drop a truth bomb on it: Don't own a breed anyone else owns. Don't exhibit/compete in any thing they do. Sticks will be up their butts for absolutely no reason other than to have a "I'M experienced and better." pissing match.


For srs. Do you know that yesterday, a friend of mine called another friend of mine a shit agility handler? 

How is that constructive? What does it accomplish? Why are we all into dogs if we are going to only bring out the negatives in people's training and experiences rather than embrace the positives as well?

When shit like that starts at my club, I smile and say that I am there to train my dog, and excuse myself from the conversation.

_*cough cough* Hey Xeph! The dogs look like they're having a great time in the pics. Mirada must have had a ball! I just have one question, though.. why are they all running full out? To me, the sheep look a bit panicked. In my herding experience (I just started herding with Marge 15 seconds ago), I prefer my dogs work slower, with the guidance of a paddle. Maybe it's just the photos, but I figured I'd ask about it.

*cough cough again* The sheep look terrified, they dogs look like they're ready to attack. I don't herd for titles (even though I started with my honorary GSD Marge 15 second ago), I herd the way the GSD was supposed to herd. You're a beginner and you're blindly following your instructor._

Ask yourselves.. which conversation would YOU prefer to be in?


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## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

Pssshhh you guys have nothin' on Aija.

Shes got the worse milk intolerance EVAR!

She once pood and barfed on my floor AT THE SAME TIME! Beat that


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

MissMutt said:


> For srs. Do you know that yesterday, a friend of mine called another friend of mine a shit agility handler?
> 
> How is that constructive? What does it accomplish? Why are we all into dogs if we are going to only bring out the negatives in people's training and experiences rather than embrace the positives as well?
> 
> ...


This kind of thing is every where but it just bums me out when it comes to dogs. It is a long dream of mine to get into agility but some of the garbage I hear makes me stay away from it. I want my dog to have fun and I don't need snobbery. I want help but not people weirdly singling me out to make themselves feel superior.

Also, I will go to jail because I don't take trash talking laying down.  And Jonas is a dirty fighter.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> And Jonas is a dirty fighter.


Well that's because he poops everywhere!

And MissMutt, we've had this discussion before. *You are not allowed to make sense.*


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

> Xeph, you may as well not do anything with your dog anymore. You obviously have a frog legged, sloped back, crippled, sheep eating dog whose stifles are 2.68 inches too long, with hocks that form an imperfect 90.75 degree angle with the ground, that is good for nothing except a pretty picture (and even the pictures beg commenting on! They're so blurry I can't even see your dog's dew claw! Even if they are removed!), so why do you even bother? Switch to cockapoos or something instead. Save yourself.


And how dare you post a picture of your dog where the fur on the croup is ruffled and then talk about how you'd have to "fix it" it photoshop. Clearly your dog is crippled and deformed and you are trying to cover it up and pretend your dog is higher quality than it really is! And, if you dare to disagree with me, with (gasp) logic, than clearly you are a prickly individual, because only a prickly individual with no social skills would ever disagree with me! :doh:


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Awful awful, I know. And of course, the picture that had the funky croup wasn't even used! Go fig.


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

Ah, but you were THINKING about it! Clearly you are unfit to own or breed GSD. LOL


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You're killing me here, KM xD!!!


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## LittleFr0g (Jun 11, 2007)

LOL, glad to be of service!


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