# Royal Canin SO...as is SO BAD.



## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

So...Gracie has crystals. Lots of them. So the vet put her on this HORRIBLE food for a month. I am so upset--she has been on high quality holistic food since she was here with us (Blue, TOTW, Wellness) and now I have to put her on this..."food." The first two ingredients are Rice and Ground Corn...Gracie has NEVER had corn in her diet here--except when transitioning from Iam's.

Feeding guidelines for Gracie: 3 1/4 cups a day! Current feeding: 2 cups.

Vet also said there was a good chance she would have to be on it forever. I don't want that. Gracie's coat looks great, her energy is great--and her stool volume/consistency is great.

We are going to do this for a month, but we really don't want to do it any longer than we have to (this crap is expensive). Anyone have any suggestions on what we can do if these crystals continue? I don't want to subject Gracie to this--bad food and no treats--for the rest of her doggy life.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Struvite crystals or oxalate crystals? It makes a difference. . .

I know that a lot of people who have Dalmatians with oxalate crystals feed a special home-prepared diet (Google it for more info). So there are options other than the prescription foods. That being said, I do know a few cats who have to eat the prescription food. Nothing else will work for them. So if that's the case with Gracie, just try to think of the food as a prescription medication. The ingredients might make you crazy, but if they keep her healthy, I guess that's the most important thing.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

Oh poor Gracie! Crystals are ouchie..though even more so for a boy dog (smaller urethra means more difficulty urinating). 
If you can find out what kind of crystals they are that will help you research a better diet to try. Struvite means the urine is not acidic enough, oxolate means it's too alkaline. Finding a food to balance the urine will help prevent further flareups.

I'm glad you found out what was wrong though, this will go a long way towards helping with the SA issues.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

They are struvite crystals.

Cracker--that is what the vet said that the irritation the crystals was causing could have been contributing to her panic because she knows she is not supposed to pee in the crate so she started to freak out. That could also explain why she peed after we had been gone a while and not right away. Vet did say there is no question she has some SA issues (brand new prescription of Prozac for her...we start tomorrow).

Someone else suggested we switch to distilled water.

I know I should think of it as a prescription medicine, but dog food is an aread I usually don't compromise on. We fed Gizmo crap for years and he ended up with seizures, allergies--the works. Did the food cause it? maybe, maybe not, but it sure didn't help.

On top of it all, she is not allowed to have any treats as long as she is on this diet. Poor Baby. No more Kongs filled with PB, no more organic peanut butter treats...:nono:

But the vet suggested we buy a can of the prescription diet and bake it into "cookies." I did, Gracie liked it, so...win there. At 2.50 a can I can get alomost 60 treats, so I guess that isn't too bad. But my house now smells like baked dog food. 

Hopefully the massive amount of Febreeze and the candles I have lit...and the windows open in 25 degree weather will make the smell go away.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

As far as I know, the MCRC Urinary SO works extremely well for dissolving crystals. Definitely a better option than requiring surgery.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

I have no doubt in its ability to dissolve crystals...it is the poor content I worry about...especially if she has to be on it her whole life. We are going to do it for a month, check her urine again. If there are no crystals, we are going to switch her to a different food, check again and see what happens.

Curios--can lots of peanut butter be a culprit? She was clear in the month she didn't have any, but when we started giving it again, she got the crystals back. Asked the vet and she didn't think so, but thought I would ask you guys.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Most of the time, not always though, sturvite crystals/stones are caused by alkaline urine and the alkaline urine is caused by an urinary tract infection. 

Has the vet taken a sterile sample and had it cultured? There can be very few shed bacteria in the urine and unless there is a culture done no bacteria will be seen. UTIs are expensive little problems. Sassy always needed *3* cultures and urinalysis to be sure the dratted things were gone.

If there is no infection and the urine just tends to be alkaline and the alkaline environment lets crystals form then using foods that produce more acid urine make sense. Lots of water is good, wet food is good.

Have you seen this article?http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

theyogachick said:


> They are struvite crystals.
> 
> Cracker--that is what the vet said that the irritation the crystals was causing could have been contributing to her panic because she knows she is not supposed to pee in the crate so she started to freak out. That could also explain why she peed after we had been gone a while and not right away. Vet did say there is no question she has some SA issues (brand new prescription of Prozac for her...we start tomorrow).
> 
> ...


Just a hint. For boarding dogs on strict diets (meaning no kongs, cookies, etc) I sometimes take their prescription canned food, pop a few tablespoons into a bowl and add water to make a "gravy" and pour THAT (gravy, food, the whole thing) into a kong and freeze it. It's a hit, every time. If you have to go the SO route for a month, this might make things more interesting for her


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

My dog had struvite crystals and was supposed to eat the SO too. I couldn't do it. I feed raw. I found wysong's biotic ph- which is a supplement. It.worked. Struvite crystals are usually accompanied by a uti. Your dog cam live with them but if she has a uti, they stick together and may cause stones to form. The biotic ph- lowers the ph of urine. It's a powder that you add to your dog's food. My dog hasn't had a problem. I also add about a 1/4 cup of water to her food to increase her fluid intake. Exercise is very important too. The SO food and other foods fpr urinary crystals have a higher salt content to encourage your dog to drink. Imho, this could lead to kidney problems.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Well, let's add to the stress...she refuses to eat it. Flat out refuses to eat it. I called the vet and they said "she'll eat when she is hungry." She has had less than a cup and a half of this crap in the last 24 hours--she should have 3 cups. She will not eat when she is hungry--I watched her refuse food for nearly 7 straight days because she didn't like it. She will not "eat when she is hungry." I told them that and they said "yes she will." It is the vet we don't like--the other one (the one who prescribed it) is much more understanding.

I am so tired...if it isn't her SA, it's this...and I am stressed. I just want things to get easier. And they are getting harder. I finally found a food she would eat (TOTW) and now I am back to square one.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

If the urinalysis shows concentrated urine just water down her usual food. Crystals also show up in stale urine, unless it was spun fresh that could be the reason there are crystals present.

Really I would print out that dogaware article, go back to the vet and show it to him, get a sterile needle sample and a culture to see if there is an infection. I bet 5 bits there is one!

If you are determined to feed that nasty SO stuff [as it does cost the earth] try buying canned food and making a gravy with some water and canned food.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestion to try the dogaware article. I just called the vet to double check--they are struvite stones. Interesting that the article states that a prescription diet isn't necessary. This stuff does cost the earth (nearly 50 dollars for 16 pounds--I don't pay that for 30 pounds of TOTW)!

It was a fresh sample, BUT, they syringed some of it off the floor when Gracie did her submissive peeing thing. I was wondering if that had anything to do with it.

I am going to try to stick it out for a couple of days to see what happens, but this food is crap. I will not force her to eat it--I think she has realized it isn't awesome.

Hubby says it could have something to do with the fact that we just started the Prozac, too, so that could be messing with her appetite, but I gave her a little of her old food with some salmon treat on top and she ate immediately--she is hungry, she just doesn't want the SO. (and before I get flamed about going against vet's orders, she isn't 100 percent on the new diet yet, anyway, so it couldn't hurt to try.

Anyone know of any medication that can help? I looked into Methio-Form, but I don't know anything about it or if it would react with her prozac.

Last time she had crystals we were told to come back in a month to test. I switched to a lower protein food and we stopped giving her peanut butter and the next time she was tested, no crystals. Now we are back to peanut butter everyday and we have crystals again. Nothing else changed, so I am wondering if that has something to do with it.


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

This is an article that I found helpful when Cherokee had crystals.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/bladder-stones-crystals/
and this
http://www.wysong.net/PDFs/struvatrol.pdf
I ended up getting a second opinion from another vet who said I didn't need to change Cherokee's diet as he had no symptoms from his crystals (they showed up when he had a test when he had lyme disease). I did make an effort to increase his water intake as he does not drink much at all.
So, if your dog needs an antibiotic, that's one things but, if she really does need a different diet, I don't think it has to be the crap your vet wants her on.
That's just my two cents.....


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Thank you for the links. The struvotol looks interesting...and I think it is even more interesting that nearly evrything I have read states that we shouldn't have to change her diet. I am going to call back tomorrow and see if I can talk to the vet again--maybe we need antibiotics, but they said there wasn't an infection.

I know she is uncomfortable (she has to pee like every 4-5 hours), so there is something wring, but, ug. This food makes her breath smell, makes the house smell and, worst of all, seems to be affecting her coat. And I can't train like I want because I can only use the food as treats, and she doesn't like it, so...crap.


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Struvite crystals are usually not controlled by diet, there is usually an infection present. Get rid of the i.fection get rid of the crystals. I was also going to get the struvatrol but found the biotic ph-. I would look into that and feed her the food she likes. I dont know if this applies but im also on a cat forum and there is a thread about grain-free foods can cause urinary issues with male cats. The high level of animal protein increases the ph of the urine and thus the magnesium levels. I may have it wrong but it may be something to look into.


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks for the ideas! She still isn't eating very well..sniffs and walks away and will maybe eat a couple of bites and she is done.

She has just started prozac as well, so that may be affecting her appetite and she has had some diarrhea (we think because of the food chang), so that could have something to do with her low appetite as well--she may just not feel well.

Today I got her out of the house (we have been cooped up for a while...lots of snow, all sidewalks covered, no place to walk!) and she was acting fine (peppy, happy to see everyone, etc.). I don't know what her deal is here.

I am calling the vet to talk to her tomorrow. I want to ask her about other options for dissolving the stones, and I will mention the two things that you all have suggested and see what happens.

Thanks!


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

theyogachick said:


> Thanks for the ideas! She still isn't eating very well..sniffs and walks away and will maybe eat a couple of bites and she is done.
> 
> She has just started prozac as well, so that may be affecting her appetite and she has had some diarrhea (we think because of the food chang), so that could have something to do with her low appetite as well--she may just not feel well.
> 
> ...


I doubt it's the sole 'cause', but the lack of being able to be out and about might be increasing her stress (therefore diarrhea) and might be a contributing factor to her lack of appetite. I know a few dogs who don't eat at all if they don't get enough exercise to suit them. Like I say I doubt's the cause of all the problems but it might be a piece in the puzzle...poor Gracie (and you!) I hope things get back to normal soon.


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