# Engagement/Focus/Bonding



## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I've heard it termed differently depending on the sport, service, or other kind of work, but almost all seem to be in agreement that training a dog to focus on the handler, even to the exclusion of high-value distractions, is vital.

Is there anything beyond the normal owner and pet kind of bonding that you do to build that? What do you find is most important to helping make YOU more interesting and more important than anything else around them? I know there are no shortcuts and a lot of it is built over time, but do you do anything consciously to foster that connection beyond just the normal fun training sessions, play, and spending good time together?


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

In my humble opinion, the biggest thing about engagement is marking the beginning and the end. In the beginning, you might ask for 2 seconds of attention, and then you clearly and deliberately release the dog. I want my dogs to know when engagement starts and when it ends. I want them to be super, super successful. Then, I grow the time commitment. As I stretch the time a little, I want the dogs to love the engagement time so much that they try to get me to initiate it. My dogs often fall into "heel" and stare at me to get me to play the engagement game. It's really sweet when it's their idea. When they start to initiate it on their own is when "engagement itself" becomes self-reinforcing. 

I have a lot of short-comings as a trainer that I am trying to learn from, but engagement is something I have nailed. 

Mark the start. Mark the end. Keep them close together. Keep things super short and fun. Biggest piece of advice I have.

My #2 piece is this: Do not engage unless you are able to fully focus on your dog and NOTHING ELSE. When you play the engagement game, do NOT ask the dog to be more invested than you are.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I spend a lot of time just marking/rewarding offered attention. Snippets of time in the yard, around the house, on walks, and almost all of our "down time" in classes (like between courses when we're waiting our turn at rally class). I start out with a very, very high rate of reward and very high value treats, and even once on an intermittent reward schedule I practice it ALL the time. 

I agree completely with trainingjunkie on both counts of having to be as focused on your dog as you're asking them to be on you, and needing to clearly end the game/release the dog. (I use ALL DONE!)


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Read Control Unleashed. I have the puppy version a d I hear it has most of what was in the first version. It's a really different way, for me at least, to think about engagement. My pup has a hard time with duration behaviors, like watch me or stay. With CU techniques, I can let him focus on the environment and then refocus to me. He has become so much better at switching focus back to me and I don't have to make him watch me all the time. Using some of the techniques in the book he has started to offer more focus on his own, and voluntarily look away from environmental distractions and back to me. 

I general though, I think it just takes working in a lot of environments. They learn to love training, then they learn that they can train with you anywhere.

Eta: great post by trainingjunkie


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

trainingjunkie said:


> Do not engage unless you are able to fully focus on your dog and NOTHING ELSE. When you play the engagement game, do NOT ask the dog to be more invested than you are.


Mostly agree. However, there are certain times when the dog should remain engaged while the handler is not, ie: when entering the OB ring and exchanging pleasantries with, or recieving instructions from, the judge. Teaching the dog to engage only when it's mutual could lead to an untimely disconnect.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

petpeeve said:


> Mostly agree. However, there are certain times when the dog should remain engaged while the handler is not, ie: when entering the OB ring and exchanging pleasantries with, or recieving instructions from, the judge. Teaching the dog to engage only when it's mutual could lead to an untimely disconnect.


Certainly. My reference was geared towards beginning stages and beginning handlers. I watch so many classes where the handlers are picking up cell phones and chatting and then get all pissed off when their dogs aren't ready for the next command. In general, if you want your dog to be focused, you as a handler ought to be focused as well. If you aren't "present" in the moment with your dog, it seems reasonable that your dog would check out too. 

Experienced and proofed dogs are a different matter. However, if you aren't really "there" with them either for extended periods of time, the seasoned dogs will (quite reasonable) wander off mentally too.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

trainingjunkie said:


> Certainly. My reference was geared towards beginning stages and beginning handlers. I watch so many classes where the handlers are picking up cell phones and chatting and then get all pissed off when their dogs aren't ready for the next command. In general, if you want your dog to be focused, you as a handler ought to be focused as well. If you aren't "present" in the moment with your dog, it seems reasonable that your dog would check out too.
> 
> Experienced and proofed dogs are a different matter. However, if you aren't really "there" with them either for extended periods of time, the seasoned dogs will (quite reasonable) wander off mentally too.


This is where I am with Watson right now. He has built up the ability to focus on me if I am 100% engaged with him, but I'm now trying to work on impulse control and handler focus when I am not completely tuned in to him, like if I want to listen to our obedience instructor for a minute or two during class. He is very good at doing whatever he pleases (which is probably something impulsive) the second I'm not actively communicating with him. lol It's certainly not a behavior I expect of him for long periods of time, but I do try to reward good choices when he makes them without my input.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Well, tethering Mia to me certainly seemed to help some lol. I also make sure at least at first I always have cookies on me and I am very free with giving out rewards for the dog paying attention to me. I drag my dogs everywhere with me and play lots of games with them. Will do more of that with Nextdog.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I've been reading more about theories of socialization, since it seems like I needed to shift my strategy with Sam. One interesting idea that I found floating around was the idea that the way we tend to traditionally socialize dogs can actually work against engagement. By encouraging the dog to see strange people as possible treat dispensers and strange dogs as potential playmates, this theory states that we set them up to view them as interesting distractions...perhaps more interesting than their owner. The theory I've been reading about basically says that you should socialize a dog to view strange people and dogs as just background noise and to be neutral about them. The dog shouldn't be trained to want to play with strange dogs or want to approach strangers for petting or treats, but rather to focus on the owner instead. So, you still take your dog around strangers but you're the one interacting with them and feeding them treats, not the stranger. You still take your dog around well-behaved strange dogs, but you walk past the dog and their owner rather than interacting with them and treat your dog for ignoring the strange dog rather than trying to encourage them to play.

I've just started doing this with our pup and I've been surprised at how much better it already seems to be working with him and his temperment. I'm not sure if it would work as well with a dog that was a natural social butterfly.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

packetsmom, I'm personally in favor of a more balanced approach to socialization. I think it's possible to go too far and isolate the dog, as some sports people do, in an attempt to make the handler the most important thing. I have heard of people who don't let their dog meet any other people or dogs face to face, because they might self-reward by getting affection or playing with the other dog. In the end, I think this can create reactivity, even when that was the exact opposite of what was intended.

At the same time, I don't think it's a great idea to let your dog run up to every person or dog he sees, or encourage every single person to feed him.

Of course it's dog dependent, but I think dogs should learn to ignore others when requested, but should be comfortable meeting new people and dogs. I think most dogs fall somewhere in the middle and will be able to learn both of these skills. Sure, with dogs who are fearful or skittish, it might be best to focus on coping skills in the presence of other people and dogs, rather than meeting and greeting, but those coping skills can involve an approach and retreat strategy, or targeting a new person's hand, or whatever, rather than only ignoring. A dog who isn't particularly skittish or fearful, just slightly uncomfortable with new people, will never learn to get over that discomfort if they can't actually meet people or other dogs.

For a dog who is a major social butterfly, the focus might also be on ignoring people and dogs and focusing on the handler, but if the dog really loves meeting everyone, I think it should be allowed to do that in a controlled manner. Dogs will be dogs, and requiring full handler focus and not allowing them to play with other dogs or people is too far to the extreme for me. I have a social butterfly, and sometimes getting focus is difficult, but at 10 months he is able to fully ignore passing people (on foot or bike) when requested (and even if I'm not paying attention to him, he only gives them a passing glance). Dogs are harder, but he is almost there and can ignore other dogs if I really engage with him. This would have been a hard skill for him either way given his personality, but I don't think I would have been doing him any favors by not allowing him to meet people or other dogs from a young age. 

For me, the goal is to have a dog who can work with me around distractions, but who can also tolerate some attention from strangers (like a stand for exam in obedience or conformation, for example, and ideally random things like a kid hugging him). Of course, a very fearful or skittish dog will change that plan, but as I said, I think the majority of dogs fall somewhere in this spectrum and can achieve both. If you want to do something like therapy or even CGC, the dog needs to have some social skills with strange people that they will only get by meeting some strange people once in a while in a way that is appropriate for that dog.

ETA: I really really recommend you pick up Control Unleashed for puppies. I think it gets to a lot of the questions you're asking and explains how to socialize dogs (especially those inclined to be fearful, skittish, or reactive) while also achieving handler focus.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

^^This is why I mark and reward _offered_ attention, especially during classes. By that, I mean I don't ask for or cue it. I just wait for them to look at me. They are free to watch other things in class, but they get highly reinforced for choosing to reorient to me. I'm happy with the balance I get between environment/handler attention and with dogs who can check stuff out but then refocus on me. Environmental distractions at trials have been Squash's downfall but we're making progress by using rewarding offered attention as our first step in practicing in different locations.


ETA: I also really love Control Unleashed. There is a lot of good stuff in there.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I'll head over to Amazon in a bit and order it.  Thank you for the suggestions!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> packetsmom, I'm personally in favor of a more balanced approach to socialization. I think it's possible to go too far and isolate the dog, as some sports people do, in an attempt to make the handler the most important thing. I have heard of people who don't let their dog meet any other people or dogs face to face, because they might self-reward by getting affection or playing with the other dog. In the end, I think this can create reactivity, even when that was the exact opposite of what was intended.
> 
> At the same time, I don't think it's a great idea to let your dog run up to every person or dog he sees, or encourage every single person to feed him.
> 
> ...



Yes. I know I'm one of the people who promoted a specific sort of hands off socialization for Kylie and talked about it, and for her it's excellent. That doesn't mean I think it's the right approach. for every dog, or that it should be done with the intent of building focus. You have to balance your dog's personality, and the ultimate goal. 

Kylie''s never like pet. Socializing her with people petting her was WRONG, because it pushed her too hard, too fast. That did damage and made her actively wary and afraid of people. The undoing of that was to have her ignore them and work in their presence *because working in their presence* was rewarding for her. She likes to work. It's not just focus, it's giving her a reward she loves to associate with people around her. I never, ever, expect her to be able to be pet by strangers, because that's just not her. She *is* that very skittish dog that Elrohwen mentioned, and on top of that I'm undoing damage done by letting people maul her. I do want her to consider them rewarding, though, as well as build her confidence. All I want from her is the ability to cope. 

Thud is kind of super focused on us, but he's not afraid or fearful. He's just generally disinterested and apathetic. We take him out just to meet people and other dogs and have that be a good experience for him. It's just that what looks like a good experience and positive association to Kylie is not the same as what looks like a good and positive association to Thud. So, he gets food and the occasionally belly rub and people are gold. The confidence for him is already very much there; he's a confident dog. He doesn't have Kylie's issues. He's never going to be BUG, who wants to climb on everyone and give them love, but if he sees people as someone who gives him something good, the odds of me fighting with negative guardian behavior later are lower, you know? 

It's not a focus thing, though, with either. It's 'what does the dog consider a positive and rewarding interaction' one. Focus, for me, is a totally different skill set. I don't want the dog to see strangers as a treat dispenser, and I like my dogs somewhat aloof so I reenforce behavior like not allowing them to approach and ignoring when we're out on other activities/without permission, but- it's not socialization.

Focus is it's own, separate, thing that I teach and reward in various environments and distraction. Just like any other behavior I want, like housebreaking or sitting.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

'Time and place' : context / environment plays an enormous part. 

Controlling of all resources, in a sensible way.

Highest of high value rewards are strictly for the handler's use only. Always have an exclusive reinforcer up your sleeve - don't tell anyone what it is, not even your spouse . Keep it a secret between handler and dog .


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

I know lots of people here like CU. I've read it cover-to-cover twice. Quite honestly, I think the techniques are wonderful for working with some dogs, but really don't apply to others. If you own a reactive dog, then it's great. If you own a dog who is easily distracted by things in its environment, then it's for you. But if you're looking for bonding exercises, then I'm not sure it's the right book. 

I will keep my copy of CU in case Nextdog (thanks, Laurelin) is reactive, distracted, etc. But for my current dog, who came to me already very confident (even overconfident) and reacts only positively to any stimulus (from people to dogs to fireworks), I just didn't find it that useful.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> I know lots of people here like CU. I've read it cover-to-cover twice. Quite honestly, I think the techniques are wonderful for working with some dogs, but really don't apply to others. If you own a reactive dog, then it's great. If you own a dog who is easily distracted by things in its environment, then it's for you. But if you're looking for bonding exercises, then I'm not sure it's the right book.
> 
> I will keep my copy of CU in case Nextdog (thanks, Laurelin) is reactive, distracted, etc. But for my current dog, who came to me already very confident (even overconfident) and reacts only positively to any stimulus (from people to dogs to fireworks), I just didn't find it that useful.


My dog is not reactive and is very confident, but he does fall into the distractable category. I think most puppies are pretty distractable though, so I think it could be helpful for building focus in them. Maybe not bonding specifically, but definitely good exercises to get the puppy who is responding to their environment to learn to respond to you. For an adult dog with some focus already built up, it's probably not as useful.

The only techniques I knew for building focus were to get a "watch me" cue and then slowly build up duration. I found the reverse psychology aspect of the CU techniques to work really well with my dog to get him to choose to look at the environment, and then back to me.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

elrohwen said:


> I found the reverse psychology aspect of the CU techniques to work really well with my dog to get him to choose to look at the environment, and then back to me.


The "look at that" game is a good example...

If you needed to increase your dog's comfort level around [insert scary stimulus], then that would be a wonderful game. But what if you have a dog that couldn't care less about the scary stimulus? Then the game is sort of useless, IMO.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

GottaLuvMutts said:


> The "look at that" game is a good example...
> 
> If you needed to increase your dog's comfort level around [insert scary stimulus], then that would be a wonderful game. But what if you have a dog that couldn't care less about the scary stimulus? Then the game is sort of useless, IMO.


I found "look at that" very useful for distraction issues, not just reactivity or fear. Watson isn't fearful of anything in the environment really, but he is distractable. I could have built up a longer and longer "watch me" for stays, for example, but when I was doing that, every time he glanced away I had to get his focus back very quickly or I knew he would break and run to whatever the distraction was. He had no skills to cope with distraction once he wasn't making eye contact with me. Since he plays "look at me" now, he will glance at the distracting stimulus, and then quickly make eye contact with me again without me having to say anything, because he knows I might reward him. So basically, asking him to never look at the environment would have taken a lot of time and work, but allowing him to look, as long as he refocuses to me, has made him much more reliable. 

So yeah, if you have an adult dog with a lot of focus who just watches you and isn't distracted by the environment, then they're not really useful. But I still think the majority of puppies are going to be distractable (even if they're not fearful), and the exercises would be useful for them.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

packetsmom said:


> What do you find is most important to helping make YOU more interesting and more important than anything else around them?


 Sometimes it's difficult for the handler to be more important than anything else around them, if they don't allow the dog an opportunity to process what it is that's around them, first. 

I usually LLW the perimeter at least, when entering a new or relatively unfamiliar venue. This helps the dog to realize that a boogie man isn't lurking anywhere in the shadows, and allows the dog to be confident and comfortable enough to focus later on when it really counts.


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