# What makes a good agility dog?



## MariJoy (Nov 10, 2011)

I was wondering, as my Ziggy will really "go the distance" if he's after something - over stuff, around & digs like crazy (the crazy terrier genetics, no doubt)...I think it would be fun to do this with him.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

Agility is a ton of fun. Try it, and maybe you'll both get hooked.

As far as characteristics that make good agility dogs, I'd say...
1) Drive! The dog should find some kind of joy in chasing things, playing with toys, getting food, etc. Laze around and take it easy kinda dogs are really hard to motivate on an agility course.
2) Willingness to work with the handler. The reason you see so many herding breeds excelling at agility is because they're bred to work closely with their humans. To take commands, sometimes from a long distance. Of course, it's not only herders who can do this. Independent dogs that run off at the first opportunity will be much more difficult. Based on breed characteristics alone, this could be your biggest challenge with a terrier. But I know some great agility terriers, too!
3) Speed. Top competitors are running around 6yds/second, which is fast!!! However, it is more than possible to have fun at slower speeds. Depending on your physical capabilities, I'd even venture to say that you could have more fun with a slower dog (because you'll succeed more often). Speed is also correlated with size: the fastest dogs hover right around the ~30lb mark, or so.
4) Confidence. Agility can present a lot of new situations. A dog lacking fear is a major plus.
5) Good social skills with other dogs and people. D/A dogs can do agility, but there are some major risks associated with that. In most cases, it will be difficult to keep a D/A dog from interacting with other dogs at a trial, as there's almost always space limitations.


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## MariJoy (Nov 10, 2011)

Could you explain what a D/A dog is? Sorry I don't recognize what that stands for...thanks


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

D/A = dog aggressive. 

I've seen three dog/dog interactions at three different agility trials that were less than friendly. All of them resulted in the offending dogs being written up, and two were banned from future trials. I also saw a fourth interaction occur during an agility class, and that one resulted in a bite with damage inflicted. 

Taking a dog-aggressive dog to a trial puts that dog and all other dogs at the trial at risk. IMO, that risk isn't worth it, considering that agility is a game. Unfortunately, a lot of dogs with the drive and confidence to excel at agility don't associate well with other dogs.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Izze didn't even know how to jump til I lived at this horse ranch with regulation hunter courses that I started Izze on, she really took to it & LOVED running thru the course! I didn't have the weave poles or anything like that, but I think she would do it with some training.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

MariJoy said:


> I was wondering, as my Ziggy will really "go the distance" if he's after something - over stuff, around & digs like crazy (the crazy terrier genetics, no doubt)...I think it would be fun to do this with him.


*GottaLuvMutts* pretty much nailed it as far as characteristics are concerned. 

The only thing I would somewhat disagree with is about terriers. Terriers usually make excellent agility dogs if you work with their characteristics - just remember that they tend to independent problem solving and are not generally inclined to take specific direction as such. If you present the stations as problems for your dog to solve - and let him solve it in his way - you'll be a great team. If you try to train him like a BC, a GSD or a retriever, you may not do as well. The technique known as _'incidental training' _often works very well with terriers. 

Reactive dogs are not as much a problem in agility as it is in other companion events - unless he is absolutely hard-case dog aggressive. He'll be in the ring by himself and you can keep interaction with other dogs at a minimum. However, if he is reactive to other dogs you may want to work on that for other reasons.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Poly said:


> just remember that they tend to independent problem solving and are not generally inclined to take specific direction as such.


Poly, just a question about dogs with these kind of characteristics, which certainly aren't purely terrier traits lol....both for myself and perhaps MariJoy....are there other sports or "jobs" this kind of dog is even more suited for?
Also, any resources for the incidental training you mention? It sounds interesting and I know I would love some more resources. The more techniques I've got in my "bag of tricks" the better IMO, especially if it is good for the above mentioned type of dog!


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## MariJoy (Nov 10, 2011)

Hmm, he CAN be pretty independent, although he takes really well to training if he knows there's a really yummy treat involved. In terms of being dog aggressive, he has yet to have any up-close-personal encounters with other dogs, although he will bark/growl if there is a fence between himself and the offending canine, not sure if this makes him "dog-aggressive or not. In the Spring, I will be taking him to a local park on leash, and then we'll see.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

MariJoy said:


> ...he will bark/growl if there is a fence between himself and the offending canine, not sure if this makes him "dog-aggressive or not. ...


Don't worry, it's perfectly normal, you can't draw any conclusions from this at all. If you have any friends with mature, stable dogs known to be good around other dogs, arrange some play time. Give him a chance to learn proper canine manners.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

Greater Swiss said:


> Poly, just a question about dogs with these kind of characteristics, which certainly aren't purely terrier traits lol....both for myself and perhaps MariJoy....are there other sports or "jobs" this kind of dog is even more suited for?


There is a great book by Jane Killion, *WHEN PIGS FLY - TRAINING SUCCESS WITH IMPOSSIBLE DOGS*. It's all about training dogs from the "non-biddable" breeds, such as terriers, to become dogs that you can live with and to perform in all kinds of companion events. Although the emphasis is on agility, the other companion events are covered as well. It would be a great resource for you.

As far as terrier "jobs" are concerned, there are of course the 'traditional' terrier sports like ratting ( e.g., AKC Earthdog) and terrier racing. The official events are only for registered terriers, but any dog can enter the fun events although there are sometimes size limitataions. 

Terriers usually have a high prey drive, so sports like lure coursing are great for them. The AKC and UKC have all-breed lure coursing trials, and many coursing clubs sponsor fun days where any dog can participate,

The big terriers, like the airedales and others, can do protectiion sports like schutzhund, and they are actually very good at it. 



Greater Swiss said:


> Also, any resources for the incidental training you mention? It sounds interesting and I know I would love some more resources. The more techniques I've got in my "bag of tricks" the better IMO, especially if it is good for the above mentioned type of dog!


The book mentioned above is to a large degree based on incidental methods - the author calls it "Free Shaping" - although it also uses the more usual shaping and reward methods - often called command training. 

I don't know of any specific resources for this type of training for dogs. However, it is implicit in a lot of dog training. Incidental training is also called "_happenstance training_" and you can find some information by doing a web search on that. Actually, much of our dog 'socialization' - such as house-training - is done via what could be called incidental or happenstance techniques. We just don't call it that. 

There is actually much more information on _incidental teaching_ of children, which is the exact same theory applied to teaching children with learning problems. Of course, dogs and children are very different so we can't simply use the same techniques, but if you are interested in the theory that is where to look.


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## Dekka (Mar 20, 2010)

A few notes on what is already said.

Speed can come with confidence. Speed also can come from a slow dog if they love the game 

an ancient vid, but I have so few of me running my dogs. This dog is a 10 inch dog (AAC) and can lay down BC times. This is one of our first ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXKjU8qhM90&list=UUM4TaIVjt33kWEJsJGwZrmw&index=16&feature=plcp 
Funny thing is she is the slowest dog around home. She doesn't race around. And at JRT races she isnt' a fast dog. But she runs as fast as her little legs will carry her on course.

But you dont' need serious speed unless you are aiming for big things. This is my masters in a few things (LOL) dog running with a little kid. He runs a bit faster when he is more sure of what the handler wants 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnCS1SHUnl4&list=UUM4TaIVjt33kWEJsJGwZrmw&index=12&feature=plcp

The biggest think I would say makes a good agility dog is a dog YOU want to work with. The first dog I posted is my heart dog to end all heart dogs. She can be a jerk and its ok I still love just being with her, training, trialling.. Her father, the second dog, just isn't my kind of JRT. He is an awesome dog but I find I have to watch my attitude with him (plus he is soft for a terrier) if I/he/we mess up on course. 

I find terriers fairly biddable, but then I don't really work with anything else lol. (whippets...) Mine do obed, rally and agility and are pretty good at it. Give me drive and I will show you a biddable dog.


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## MariJoy (Nov 10, 2011)

I would say that he is biddable with the right motivation, and in the right setting - he loves obeying commands when the treats come out, in the right setting (indoors), outside not so much, but then he IS still just 7 months old.

Outside he is HIGHLY distractible - we'll see if that changes as I work with him over time.

Thanks for the really good and detailed information, I would love doing this with him if it works out for both of us.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Just to add ... repetitive / frequent jumping can wreak havoc on limbs and joints etc if they're not up to the task.

Proper physical structure in the dog is tremendously important. Without it, all the drive, speed, and confidence in the world won't do any good. In fact, running a dog in such a state will undoubtedly bring further grievous harm.

Perhaps consult first with your vet and / or a good sports therapist for advice and direction in this regard.


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## Dekka (Mar 20, 2010)

MariJoy said:


> I would say that he is biddable with the right motivation, and in the right setting - he loves obeying commands when the treats come out, in the right setting (indoors), outside not so much, but then he IS still just 7 months old.
> 
> Outside he is HIGHLY distractible - we'll see if that changes as I work with him over time.
> 
> Thanks for the really good and detailed information, I would love doing this with him if it works out for both of us.


A good foundation agility class will focus on getting you and your dog to be a good solid team. I would say go take some classes, have a blast and see how it goes.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

petpeeve said:


> Just to add ... repetitive / frequent jumping can wreak havoc on limbs and joints etc if they're not up to the task.
> 
> Proper physical structure in the dog is tremendously important. Without it, all the drive, speed, and confidence in the world won't do any good. In fact, running a dog in such a state will undoubtedly bring further grievous harm.
> 
> Perhaps consult first with your vet and / or a good sports therapist for advice and direction in this regard.


I agree that consulting with a vet is a good idea, but I think the average dog could at least dabble in agility without causing damage. Dogs with all sorts of different physical structures can be good at the sport, and some venues will allow you to lower jump heights if you want. My mixed breed is nothing special in the structure department, but I had her hips, elbows, knees, shoulders, and back x-rayed before we got very seriously into sports. Vet said everything was A-ok, and to go ahead. Participating in sports has helped her build crazy muscle (vet recently said she has the muscle mass of a pit bull!), and has helped keep her lean.


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## Dekka (Mar 20, 2010)

Also IME vets aren't usually trained (at least small animal vets) in good structure for dog sports. Getting xrays is a good plan. But I don't think vets are great at knowing what stresses an agility or flyball dog deals with. At least my experience hasn't been good in that respect (I love my vets, dont' get me wrong.. but I have horses and am used to how good horse vets are at comparing conformation to intended usage)


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