# 'Quality' Dry Food Brands - Feedback or Suggestions?



## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Hey all,

So it is almost time for me to purchase dry food again, and recently I started switching brands each shopping trip, but I'm slowly gaining more "awareness" as to the ingredients in foods, but I admit I'm still a little "green" when it comes to certain ingredients to avoid, etc. I've learned for the most part which brands to avoid, but I'm just curious to hear some feedback on the current brands I'm looking into, and suggestions on other brands (or brand varieties) to check out that I have not yet tried or heard of. My dogs never seem to have any issues on any of the foods I've tried previously, but I mix a few together at one time and they are on a partial raw/dry diet so they don't eat kibble as their only diet, but Just curious as to what kind of feedback some people may have with certain brands, etc - just so I can be "weary" of any symptoms with my dogs.

This past month they've been on a mixture of Acana Grasslands, Blue Wilderness Salmon and California Naturals Venison. The month before it was Acana Ranchlands, Acana Wild Prairie and TOTW Roasted Fowl.

Below are the list of brands I want to try in the next months for my mixture, that I haven't tried yet, or haven't used in a few years (when I never looked at ingredients), and the ingredients seem okay to me, but curious if any have had or are having issues, or what kinds of ingredients I should maybe avoid? You'll notice I have grain-free stuff listed..I am not opposed to some with grains, I'm just not educated enough on which grains are okay in small amounts, and have basically been told to stick with grain free products, etc. So suggestions on a good "grain" type to mix for balance are appreciated as well.. Thanks for any input or feedback!

NOW! - Adult grain-free
http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/now-fresh/grain-free-adult

Timberwolf Organics - Wild & Natural (grain-free)
http://www.timberwolforganics.com/canine-diet/wild-a-natural-dry-canid-formula.html

Wellness CORE - Grain free Original Recipe
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=dog&pid=68&dm=grainfree#ingredients

Nature's Variety - Instinct Rabbit ( I like all the protien varieties, but can anyone tell me what the "Montmorillonite Clay" ingredient is all about? It shows up in one of the first 10 ingredients in all formulas.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/dog/kibble/rabbit

Fromm's - Grain-free Beef Frittata Veg
http://frommfamily.com/products/four-star/dog/dry/grain-free-beef-frittata-veg

Orijen - Regional Red
http://orijen.ca/products/regional_red/ingredients


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

I was diligently studying dog foods for a few months for my own use. If I were to pick a food from your list, I would go with the Orijen. It has some really great looking first five ingredients, and I personally with the little bit of knowledge I have, see no major red flags.  I am not a pro though. 

I forgot to add that I stay away from the soy oil and flax seed seems to be controversial in that it really does not digest as to what I read. I know I use 4Health for the big dogs and it has whole flax seed as a filler. It is not ground and I also question it.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

You can't go wrong with trying any of those foods. They're all very good quality. Which is not to say that any given good quality food will agree with your particular dog, though. A dog can have a bad reaction to even the best food in the world. As long as a food has actual meat as the main ingredient, and no artificial colors or chemical preservatives, I'm not going to say it's bad. It all depends on how it agrees with your dog's systems.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks! I definitely want to try them all, as I rotate each month, but these are brands I haven't really tried yet, with exception to Timberwolf and NOW!, I tried NOW! months ago, and Timberwolf years ago. Orijen I haven't used yet - but I use Acana and they are made from the same manufacturer and I definitely love their ingredients (the first few anyway).

I'm no pro and have very little knowledge based on ingredients, so I'm looking for user feedbacks so I can know a few things to watch out for when or if I eventually try them.

I am definitely liking the protien ingredients in the Orijen regional red though, and I'm looking forward to trying this one.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Willowy said:


> You can't go wrong with trying any of those foods. They're all very good quality. Which is not to say that any given good quality food will agree with your particular dog, though. A dog can have a bad reaction to even the best food in the world. As long as a food has actual meat as the main ingredient, and no artificial colors or chemical preservatives, I'm not going to say it's bad. It all depends on how it agrees with your dog's systems.


I definitely agree, I know my dogs could react differently to some ingredients or what not wether its "good" quality or "exceptional" quality but just really curious what things to look out for if some people have experienced issues with these brands. I'm also open to other brand varieties I haven't listed to try.

I am definitely looking at trying a grain-based product, but have no idea what "grains" are considered good or bad for dogs...my young one does have more frequent loose stools where my older one always has fairly hard poops but i think the little guy may need some grain to firm the stool up a bit. Out of the 3 brands I buy to mix I'd be looking to do 2 grain-free and 1 with grain....but what grains?? Are oats and rice ingredients "better" than wheat, soy and corn, etc?


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Wellness Core didn't go over well when I tried it. 
I've been rotating Hallie since she was 6 weeks old we've tried
Orijen (adult, 6 fish, and regional red)
Innova (adult)
Wellness CORE (ocean adult)
Merrick (puppy plate, grammy's pot pie, and wilderness blend)
Taste of the Wild (all varieties)
EVO- (red meat)
Nature's Variety (rabbit and duck instinct)
Merrick BG- (chicken, buffalo, and salmon)
Wellness super5mix (ocean whitefish and chicken)

Hallie loved Orijen regional red. The only downside is the availability (I have to order it) and also the price. Her other favorite was Nature's Variety Rabbit, she preferred it over the other formulas both dry and raw. 

The only thing I wouldn't recommend is Innova and Wellness Core, Hallie didn't do so well on either. All of the kibbles I listed and fed worked wonderful for Hallie. Maybe that'll give you some ideas on grain inclusive ones you can try.

Also, the 'best' grains are usually rice, oatmeal, barely, etc. Steer clear from any potato based foods like Natural Balance, they're chock full of potatoes, which is okay but you aren't getting what you're paying for. I personally like oatmeal or barely after several meats.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I've become more about quality control issues, production, companies and their values, how trustworthy they are, if they had recalls and how they handled them, etc. Whereas I used to just see certain ingredients and be like "Oh, I'd NEVER feed that!" but I've learned quality control and company trust is equally, if not more, important than the ingredient list sometimes. Though of course ingredient list is to be paid attention to as well. Look at Evanger's - they were a trustworthy company, I thought, but they had a HUGE issue with listing the wrong meat ingredients in their food. Tested for chicken (or something) and it was beef, etc. That is not good news for a dog who may react terribly to one meat, but the owner thinks they are feeding another. Not cool.

Lately, I'm not big on most Diamond-produced foods (either foods made by Diamond, for Diamond, or at Diamond plants). I am not sure why - just rubs me the wrong way after reading some current things as well as past issues of course. I did feed TOTW for a while and did have luck with it. 

Certain foods will look good on paper, or at least decent, but I personally would never feed (e.g. Merrick and Nutro).

I know it gets to a point where you are going to find a problem with EVERY food you read about, whether it be a small problem or a big problem, so of course in the end, it's about finding what works for your dogs. I've probably spent way too much time researching, etc, but I feel confident that I know enough basics to feed my dog what I believe is right and best for him.

As of right now, I am feeding Fromm. VERY much so love the company. Their Pork & Applesauce formula gave him mushier/softer poops than I liked but their Duck formula works great for him (they have new grain frees coming out next month, too). At this point, I only REALLY trust Champion, Petcurean and Fromm. There's others I trust too but maybe not as much. Believe it or not, I feel like at this point, besides those companies, I'd almost trust companies like Royal Canin and SD better than places like Diamond, Evangers, etc (as companies, not food). I still don't like ingredients in those foods though so I tend to avoid them (it seems most recalls involve wheat, corn, etc, so in general, I don't like to see them in dog food). 

Sorry this was probably more than anyone needed to know, lol, just my dog food thoughts of the night.

Out of your list, I'd probably feed any of them (actually, think I have at some point), except I'm not very familiar with Timberwolf.

Jackson did great on Orijen until they changed the formula - then it resulted in mushy poo and gas. And this is a dog who pretty much handles any kibble and NEVER has gas. Wellness Core - I tend to recall more poop but no other complaints. NV Instinct was too high fat for my liking (for a pancreatitis-prone breed, plus he did gain a bit of weight on it).

We fed Go! Endurance for a while and he did REALLY well on it. Actually planning on swinging either Go! or Now! into a rotation with Fromm once the new formulas hit the shelves.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I've become more about quality control issues, production, companies and their values, how trustworthy they are, if they had recalls and how they handled them, etc. Whereas I used to just see certain ingredients and be like "Oh, I'd NEVER feed that!" but I've learned quality control and company trust is equally, if not more, important than the ingredient list sometimes. Though of course ingredient list is to be paid attention to as well. Look at Evanger's - they were a trustworthy company, I thought, but they had a HUGE issue with listing the wrong meat ingredients in their food. Tested for chicken (or something) and it was beef, etc. That is not good news for a dog who may react terribly to one meat, but the owner thinks they are feeding another. Not cool.
> 
> Lately, I'm not big on most Diamond-produced foods (either foods made by Diamond, for Diamond, or at Diamond plants). I am not sure why - just rubs me the wrong way after reading some current things as well as past issues of course. I did feed TOTW for a while and did have luck with it.
> 
> ...


I've noticed the same thing about ingredients vs. quality control. 
ps- I love your sig!!


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

I'll vote for Orijen and Wellness CORE. These have worked very well for my dogs (as well as Acana). I fed them Instinct (Duck & Turkey) for about a month... it was horrible. They were both having soft, pudding stool consistently. Yesterday that bag finally ran out and we went back to Acana (Pacifica), and instantly their stool firmed right up.

ETA: I'm kind with Jackson's mom on this... right now my favourite company is Champion Petfoods (they make Orijen and Acana). I just wish I could have more variety of foods by them sold here.. but this country doesn't allow import of beef/lamb from anywhere other than Australia or NZ so my choices are limited to the chicken/fish flavours.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback and thoughts so far everyone! Its good to know what sort of things I could encounter with these foods. I eventually plan to try them all (NOW! and Timberwolf I've fed before with no issues.. but didn't pay attention to ingredients) but its good to know what good or bad things people have experienced with them. I can certainly agree the manufacturers quality control and processes play a hand when selecting food as well, but I rarely hear of any major issues and don't always have the time to go digging (which is why I am here - to learn!) I'm not familiar with Diamond, I've heard of them obviously but I'm not aware of which brands they own or any major problems, I can do some research though.

I'm definitely a huge fan of switching things up for variety, I really love Champion too.. well I like Acana, I haven't tried Orijen yet but I've heard some not so great reviews from people using it here but I take everything with a grain of salt because every dog is different right.

Hmmm.. Can anyone maybe suggest a brand or variety that could help with Thumpers slightly loose and greeny colored stools? Honestly.. doesn't bother me that much now becuase its cold here and the poop freezes within minutes for easy cleaning but in the summer it could be an issue. Both dogs eat the same diet and Cash has really hard poop, and Thumper has medium to loose, sometimes brown, sometimes green and sometimes very gassy, and this is with all the different kibble mixtures I've been feeding, and I think ( I dont know for sure ) but i think he just gets too much protein, and huge varieties of it so I'm wondering if I just add a bit of a grain-based product to Thumpers food if it might help keep his poops regular? Thoughts? 

I've honestly considered putting him back on a 100% raw diet because his poops were perfect when he wasn't on kibble but its just too expensive to feed that much of it every day. I'm just hesitant and dont know enough about "good" grain products for dogs, but I'm sure mixing a grain product in with a grain free product won't hurt him one bit.. I just need some advice on what grains are "better" for dogs. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I've become more about quality control issues, production, companies and their values, how trustworthy they are, if they had recalls and how they handled them, etc. Whereas I used to just see certain ingredients and be like "Oh, I'd NEVER feed that!" but I've learned quality control and company trust is equally, if not more, important than the ingredient list sometimes. Though of course ingredient list is to be paid attention to as well. Look at Evanger's - they were a trustworthy company, I thought, but they had a HUGE issue with listing the wrong meat ingredients in their food. Tested for chicken (or something) and it was beef, etc. That is not good news for a dog who may react terribly to one meat, but the owner thinks they are feeding another. Not cool.
> 
> Lately, I'm not big on most Diamond-produced foods (either foods made by Diamond, for Diamond, or at Diamond plants). I am not sure why - just rubs me the wrong way after reading some current things as well as past issues of course. I did feed TOTW for a while and did have luck with it.
> 
> ...




Agreed. Abbie is beginning her transition to Verus foods (check them out, I've heard really great things in regards to the company and their production practices!). Then I'll probably rotate her with some Fromm and Earthborn's grain free's...


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

The Verus doesn't look too bad, ingredient-wise, although I noticed salt was sort of "up there" on the list of variety I looked at, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.. not sure how good or bad salt or similar ingredients are for dogs but I guess me being the type of person who avoids salt for myself I would prefer to see it lower on the ingredient list in foods for my dogs as well, but that's just a personal thing. It looks good though otherwise, although its not available here for me to try (only in Eastern Canada).

Most quality brands are widely available at several stores very close to me though so I do have a great selection to choose from when shopping for new brands to try each month.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I've become more about quality control issues, production, companies and their values, how trustworthy they are, if they had recalls and how they handled them, etc. Whereas I used to just see certain ingredients and be like "Oh, I'd NEVER feed that!" but I've learned quality control and company trust is equally, if not more, important than the ingredient list sometimes. Though of course ingredient list is to be paid attention to as well. Look at Evanger's - they were a trustworthy company, I thought, but they had a HUGE issue with listing the wrong meat ingredients in their food. Tested for chicken (or something) and it was beef, etc. That is not good news for a dog who may react terribly to one meat, but the owner thinks they are feeding another. Not cool.
> 
> Lately, I'm not big on most Diamond-produced foods (either foods made by Diamond, for Diamond, or at Diamond plants). I am not sure why - just rubs me the wrong way after reading some current things as well as past issues of course. I did feed TOTW for a while and did have luck with it.
> 
> ...


I'm a Fromm feeder. I tried the Pork and Applesauce first, for awhile. At one point, the place I used to get it from were out of stock, so I tried the Duck and Sweet Potato Fromm. Zoe loved that one and did even better on it. Then I started getting into grain-free, so now she's on Beef Fritatta. I'm quite happy with it. The only downside is now she has doggy odor and I'm not sure if it's the food. I rarely had to bathe her up until a few years ago. She was such a clean dog. Not so much these days. I've been wanting to switch up her food. I'm always searching for a perfect food for her and always curious to try all the great brands. I've never tried Acana, Innova, Blue Buffalo or TOTW. What grain-free foods are they going to be coming out with, *Jackson's Mom?*
I'm not personallly a fan of Royal Canin and I don't know much about it, but somehow, breed specified foods seems a bit weird to me...but my boyfriend feeds it to his cat and he is the heaalthiest cat I've ever seen. Even the vet was fawning over him and how fit he is. So I guess some will do well on it, and others not so much, just like how some dogs/cats won't do so well even on the premium brands.


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## Kérstan (Dec 18, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I've become more about quality control issues, production, companies and their values, how trustworthy they are, if they had recalls and how they handled them, etc. Whereas I used to just see certain ingredients and be like "Oh, I'd NEVER feed that!" but I've learned quality control and company trust is equally, if not more, important than the ingredient list sometimes. Though of course ingredient list is to be paid attention to as well. Look at Evanger's - they were a trustworthy company, I thought, but they had a HUGE issue with listing the wrong meat ingredients in their food. Tested for chicken (or something) and it was beef, etc. That is not good news for a dog who may react terribly to one meat, but the owner thinks they are feeding another. Not cool.
> 
> Lately, I'm not big on most Diamond-produced foods (either foods made by Diamond, for Diamond, or at Diamond plants). I am not sure why - just rubs me the wrong way after reading some current things as well as past issues of course. I did feed TOTW for a while and did have luck with it.
> 
> ...


Your post is great. I agree.

I'd actually never checked out those foods.
This post drove me to do so. And I particularly liked "GO! FIT + FREE Grain Free formulas".

I personally thank you for your post! ^-^


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Lunachick said:


> What grain-free foods are they going to be coming out with, *Jackson's Mom?*


Apparently gamebird & salmon tunallini.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Kérstan said:


> Your post is great. I agree.
> 
> I'd actually never checked out those foods.
> This post drove me to do so. And I particularly liked "GO! FIT + FREE Grain Free formulas".
> ...


Thanks!


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

I thought this was a good resource to look for quality foods: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/


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## karrot (Dec 20, 2011)

AgentP said:


> I thought this was a good resource to look for quality foods: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/


 I was about to actually post this website! I spent a good couple of hours looking up several brands of food and they have a list of 5 and 4 star dry kibble and wet food. it's a decent analysis of the first few ingredients but it has definitely helped me lots
Im looking to try Orijen next time I get more kibble which is soon.
As for wet foods, my boyfriend tells me that it's not necessary because it can rot Karrot's teeth. Is that true? I want to give him wet foods every now and then but I'm a little uneasy at the thought of having to deal with rotting teeth. But then again, my boyfriend could be wrong.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

karrot said:


> I was about to actually post this website! I spent a good couple of hours looking up several brands of food and they have a list of 5 and 4 star dry kibble and wet food. it's a decent analysis of the first few ingredients but it has definitely helped me lots
> Im looking to try Orijen next time I get more kibble which is soon.
> As for wet foods, my boyfriend tells me that it's not necessary because it can rot Karrot's teeth. Is that true? I want to give him wet foods every now and then but I'm a little uneasy at the thought of having to deal with rotting teeth. But then again, my boyfriend could be wrong.


I can't post the thread because it's on another forum (my gecko forum but the girl who posted is very knowledgable as she knows many vets and friends who are in school to be vets. If you want the thread link, PM me but this was her reply on wet food and whether it rots pets teeth or not

"I also just wanted to interject something that seemed to be overlooked: Canned food will NOT rot your pets' teeth. Dry food does NOT clean your pets' teeth, unless it's that giant weird crap kibble from science diet, but I am still skeptical about that too. I hate this myth, because pets should be fed wet food more often than dry for their bodies' wellbeing, cats especially. I honestly think cats should never get more than 25% of their diet as dry food. Cats do not have a thirst mechanism like dogs do as they are desert animals and get all of their water from their PREY items, so they are very unlikely to actively seek out water. Dry food is not biologically appropriate, because a cat can spend it's entire life in a dehydrated state, which can lead to urinary tract problems. (There IS a reason C/D is the most prescribed SD prescription food...and I think this is the reason). Cats should get a high quality (NO GRAIN) wet food every day, even if it's just a tablespoon."


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Jackson's Mom- how come you don't like Merrick?


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

meggels said:


> Jackson's Mom- how come you don't like Merrick?


A lot of quality control issues in short amounts of time.

Merrick often refuses to disclose sources for some of their ingredients, place of manufacture of some of their products, and their quality control measures (or lack thereof). Merrick has also been criticized for not using their considerable resources to notify consumers of their recalls.

Search them on the FDA website and there is *a lot *of stuff listed. 

I simply don't trust them.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

Well I am on a mix now of NOW! Puppy, Nature Variety Instinct, Fromm's & Timberwolf as recommended by Cash's breeder who has had great success with this mixture, Thumper & Cash were fed this mix over the holidays and Thumpers stools were normal. Cash has an iron stomach and does great on anything he eats so he's not affected what so ever. I'll stick with this mix for a while and see how it goes.


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

We use the Costco Kirkland brand which rates well on the site I posted earlier. It's a quality food for the limited budget - a 40 lb. bag is $30. I would love to buy her a five star food, but going with four is not shabby at all. I do supplement her food with the meat I buy (mostly chicken, sometimes turkey and the odd steak), so she gets a tad more protein.

When I cook I will toss her the odd piece of carrots or apple etc. as well.


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## BeingHomest (Dec 28, 2011)

PackMomma said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So it is almost time for me to purchase dry food again, and recently I started switching brands each shopping trip, but I'm slowly gaining more "awareness" as to the ingredients in foods, but I admit I'm still a little "green" when it comes to certain ingredients to avoid, etc. I've learned for the most part which brands to avoid, but I'm just curious to hear some feedback on the current brands I'm looking into, and suggestions on other brands (or brand varieties) to check out that I have not yet tried or heard of. My dogs never seem to have any issues on any of the foods I've tried previously, but I mix a few together at one time and they are on a partial raw/dry diet so they don't eat kibble as their only diet, but Just curious as to what kind of feedback some people may have with certain brands, etc - just so I can be "weary" of any symptoms with my dogs.
> 
> ...


All junk except for Fromm but Fromm's best is the Gold Line. I wouldn't use Timberwolf or NV if it were free.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

BeingHomest said:


> All junk except for Fromm but Fromm's best is the Gold Line. I wouldn't use Timberwolf or NV if it were free.


 What do you recommend? Why do you feel the rest is junk?


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

juliemule said:


> What do you recommend? Why do you feel the rest is junk?


I see hundreds of dogs and the ones that look the worst are the ones eating grain free foods. Now granted i see heavily worked sporting dogs and GF foods just don't work well for those dogs. I don't recommend feeding a normal house dog more than 30% protein. If your dog is normally active like a pet dog that plays ball and runs around the yard and the dog park, then don't subject them to high protein foods because their bodies just excrete the extra protein. 25% is typically what a normal dog needs, but you can go to 30% safely. The foods I prefer are:

1) Annamaet, Ultra, Encore, Extra or Salcha
2) Precise, Foundation or Agility
3) Enhance Professional Endurance
4) Dr. Tim's Kinesis
5) Canidae Chicken & Rice, not ALS

I do not like any private label foods, anything branded by Diamond. 

The only value foods I like are Loyall & Pro Pac.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

BeingHonest said:


> The only value foods I like are Loyall & Pro Pac.


Ahaha says everything.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I have working dogs, but I honestly don't like to feed corn, or corn based foods. I have one female when fed corn feed that itches and loses hair muck like an allergy. I didn't bother having her tested though, since it has cleared up since feeding no corn.


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

juliemule said:


> I have working dogs, but I honestly don't like to feed corn, or corn based foods. I have one female when fed corn feed that itches and loses hair muck like an allergy. I didn't bother having her tested though, since it has cleared up since feeding no corn.


Well your dog is in the minority. The vast majority of food allergies are caused by chicken, beef, eggs & dairy, close to 80%. Corn, rice, barley & oats combined represent 4-5% of all foods allergies. Also, food allergies are also only 10% of all allergies. So if you suspect your dog is allergic to something there is a 90% chance it is not food. The internet is filled with bad information. Grains are not the big causes of allergies and frankly it is the dogs faulty immune system, not the foods fault. I like using 30/20 foods because the are low in carbs whether its rice, corn or oats.

If you must avoid corn, Enhance makes an excellent food as does Precise & Dr. Tim's. Some of the best on the market and Precise and Enhance are barely above $1lb.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Could have been something seasonal, who really knows as she was not allergy tested. I know they all poop ALOT less when fed this food. It does contain grains, and I find I feed way less of it than the others. I was recently given samples of Loyall, and did not try it, looked to me to be the same as dog chow. I will look up the others you mentioned, I am always trying to find good food that doesn't cost $70 a bag.


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

juliemule said:


> Could have been something seasonal, who really knows as she was not allergy tested. I know they all poop ALOT less when fed this food. It does contain grains, and I find I feed way less of it than the others. I was recently given samples of Loyall, and did not try it, looked to me to be the same as dog chow. I will look up the others you mentioned, I am always trying to find good food that doesn't cost $70 a bag.


I don't use Loyall at home but two of my dogs were away all summer in Minnesota and they were on Loyall Professional 31/20 all summer and trained hard. They looked great when they came home to NJ so the food did its job. I have no issues with that food at all and I would have seen it in these two because they lose weight fast if not fed properly.

It could have been seasonal that is typically the issue. You didn't say where you lived but between Annamaet, Precise, Enhance & Loyall you should find one. I do know that petfooddirect.com ships Enhance free. 

As good as Annamaet is shipping is expensive.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I am in TN, and have not heard of any of these brands near here. I have been happy with 4 Health, but have the skinny pup (other thread), and as I said always looking for good food at a better price lol.
Thank you, I will check out enhance.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

juliemule said:


> I am in TN, and have not heard of any of these brands near here. I have been happy with 4 Health, but have the skinny pup (other thread), and as I said always looking for good food at a better price lol.
> Thank you, I will check out enhance.


I wouldn't got with any of the ones suggested above unless you want to be feeding over priced dog chow.

Do you have a costco near you?



BeingHonest said:


> Well your dog is in the minority. The vast majority of food allergies are caused by chicken, beef, eggs & dairy, close to 80%. Corn, rice, barley & oats combined represent 4-5% of all foods allergies. Also, food allergies are also only 10% of all allergies. So if you suspect your dog is allergic to something there is a 90% chance it is not food. The internet is filled with bad information. Grains are not the big causes of allergies and frankly it is the dogs faulty immune system, not the foods fault. I like using 30/20 foods because the are low in carbs whether its rice, corn or oats.
> 
> If you must avoid corn, Enhance makes an excellent food as does Precise & Dr. Tim's. Some of the best on the market and Precise and Enhance are barely above $1lb.


Proof of this anywhere?


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

juliemule said:


> I am in TN, and have not heard of any of these brands near here. I have been happy with 4 Health, but have the skinny pup (other thread), and as I said always looking for good food at a better price lol.
> Thank you, I will check out enhance.


Well 4 Health is probably less than all of them by the lb. Enhance should be less overall because you will feed a lot less than 4 Health.

Try the 27/17 Enhance. You could also try Native. I have friends that use it and like it very much.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

katielou said:


> I wouldn't got with any of the ones suggested above unless you want to be feeding over priced dog chow.
> 
> Do you have a costco near you?
> 
> Proof of this anywhere?


No, I wish I did. I really am not feeding much of the 4 Health. 2 cups a day for the dogs on restricted, 3 cups for the 2 girls, and as much as the pup wants. (which isn't much)


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

katielou said:


> I wouldn't got with any of the ones suggested above unless you want to be feeding over priced dog chow.
> 
> Do you have a costco near you?
> 
> ...


The Allergies? Yes, 

http://cms.evsrl.it/SocSpec/SiteTailorCommon/ShowBinary.aspx?id=3350
http://www.petwellbeing.com/blog/do-you-know-which-ingredients-in-your-pets-food-cause-allergies

"Albert Townshend DVM writes: "Food allergy is rare; other causes of GI and/or dematologic sign are more common and some may also respond (for nonallergeric reasons) to dietary manipulation. There are two types of unpleasant reactions to food. The first is an immunologic reaction (a true food allergy). The second is a nonimmunologic reaction (what is termed a food intolerance). Food intolerance are much more common. Allergic reactions do occur to corn, however, depending on the research cited, corn is not thought to be a very common allergen. At least not as high on the list as soybeans, beef, wheat, eggs or dairy products. Even rice has been found to cause allergic reactions in a rare few animals."


It is entirely possible that a dog has a bonafide allergy to rice, corn, barley or oats but it is not likely. Animal proteins and isolated wheat gluten are the main culprits. This is just basic science.

Like I said if 10 dogs had some type of atopic problem, 9 of them would be due to something other than food.


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

Interesting. I am a lactation counselor and if we do see allergies it's like BeingHonest said - dairy, beef (basically bovine protein) and eggs are major culprits, but corn is way high up there as well. I guess human allergies must be a lot different from dog allergies.

It's so hard to pick a good food. Fromm (at least the Family classics), which is praised here, only get 3 stars with the dog food review site I use and the other dry Fromm brands seem to be rating the same as my fairly cheap Costco brand.


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

AgentP said:


> Interesting. I am a lactation counselor and if we do see allergies it's like BeingHonest said - dairy, beef (basically bovine protein) and eggs are major culprits, but corn is way high up there as well. I guess human allergies must be a lot different from dog allergies.
> 
> It's so hard to pick a good food. Fromm (at least the Family classics), which is praised here, only get 3 stars with the dog food review site I use and the other dry Fromm brands seem to be rating the same as my fairly cheap Costco brand.


Corn allergies in dogs run about 2-3%, of the 10%, so 3 out of 1,000 dogs with an atopic reaction can be traced to corn. I am not advocating a corn diet I am just saying the science is pretty clear on what causes allergies in dogs and how rare it is.

Fromm Classics & Gold get penalized by the "dog food police" because they are moderate protein and have grains. Both of these foods are for pet dogs and have the nutrition they require, more actually. They are both very good foods.

Your Costco brand is fine but it is made by Diamond. So if a bag seems much different than what you are used to, bring it back.


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

BeingHonest said:


> http://www.petwellbeing.com/blog/do-you-know-which-ingredients-in-your-pets-food-cause-allergies


That study was authored by someone working for a pet food company. Not sure if I would put too much credence to the findings. 

I think that this is relevant (from the first link you posted): There are a lot of potential food allergens and because of the multiple ingredient content in commercial pet food, it is difﬁcult to detect the speciﬁc causative food allergens. 

From what I understand, compared to herbivores, a dog's digestive tract is much less specialized for digesting grains.


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

AgentP said:


> That study was authored by someone working for a pet food company. Not sure if I would put too much credence to the findings.
> 
> I think that this is relevant (from the first link you posted): There are a lot of potential food allergens and because of the multiple ingredient content in commercial pet food, it is difﬁcult to detect the speciﬁc causative food allergens.
> 
> From what I understand, compared to herbivores, a dog's digestive tract is much less specialized for digesting grains.


The findings are consistent with the compilation study done in Belgium. There are many studies on the topic. Grains are just not significant.

http://cms.evsrl.it/SocSpec/SiteTailorCommon/ShowBinary.aspx?id=3350

Dogs can digest anything. All carbohydrates need to be gelatinized properly, even potatoes. Once this happens, grains are over 90% digestible. I agree though that carbohydrates should be limited, that is why I feed a 32/20 food. Around 25/15 is the lightest I would go.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Sure, true allergies are rare, but I find that corn intolerances seem quite common in dogs. My first dog couldn't have ANY corn. Even a little bit would set her off itching and chewing. Even a spoonful of chili with like 3 kernels of corn in it. I guess she probably had a true allergy. And one of my current dogs and one of my mom's dogs also can't eat corn, although they aren't quite so sensitive as she was. I'd categorize their problems as intolerances. That's 3 out of 6 dogs in the family who can't tolerate corn. Maybe our dogs are defective, but the percentage seems high to me.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

BeingHonest said:


> Dogs can digest anything.


This is not true. Dogs cannot digest dark chocolate. If enough is ingested, it will e fatal. They cannot eat onions. They cannot ingest grapes. You shouldn't make such a broad statement. This is why some people are under the impression dogs can eat anything and feed them every kind of people food, even the stuff that can kill them.

Corn doesn't even have any nutritional value. It's hard to digest even for people. And to me, anything WE cannot digest well, and does nothing healthy for our bodies, is not worth feeding to our pets. Those foods you listed got 2.5 stars and 3.5 stars on www.dogfoodadvisory.com. Loyall had *"poultry by-product meal"* listed as it's _first_ ingredient and *"ground whole corn"* listed as it's _second_ ingredient - http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/loyall-dog-food-dry/

For the first ingredient:
"The first ingredient in this dog food is poultry by-product meal… a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of slaughtered poultry after all the prime cuts have been removed."

Your dog deserves slaughterhouse waste?

Cheaper dog food companies use corn as a filler because it's cheap, and that's it. With cheaper dog foods, you have to feed more. You're really not even saving money like that.


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

Any and every dog I've met who is on a grain-free diet look amazing... 

Anyway, I personally prefer Orijen and Acana due to their ingredient quality. I feed my dogs Acana as well as raw when possible.


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## BeingHonest (Dec 28, 2011)

Lunachick said:


> This is not true. Dogs cannot digest dark chocolate. If enough is ingested, it will e fatal. They cannot eat onions. They cannot ingest grapes. You shouldn't make such a broad statement. This is why some people are under the impression dogs can eat anything and feed them every kind of people food, even the stuff that can kill them.
> 
> Corn doesn't even have any nutritional value. It's hard to digest even for people. And to me, anything WE cannot digest well, and does nothing healthy for our bodies, is not worth feeding to our pets. Those foods you listed got 2.5 stars and 3.5 stars on www.dogfoodadvisory.com. Loyall had *"poultry by-product meal"* listed as it's _first_ ingredient and *"ground whole corn"* listed as it's _second_ ingredient - http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/loyall-dog-food-dry/
> 
> ...


I never suggested feeding anything harmful like chocolate. But you are wrong on the digestibility of corn. The only part that is not is the shell of the kernel and when corn is ground and cooked it is over 90% digestible. Read the following:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1704S.full

A landmark study by Cornell found that when corn is cooked it has 3 times the cancer fighting compounds as broccoli.

As for "by-products", don't believe what you read on the internet. The grade used in dog foods is called "Pet Food Grade" it is basically meat, skin, organs, cartilage and the intestinal tract of chicken, turkey and ducks. It is arguably better because it does not contain much muscle meat which has high levels of phosphorus or 'ash'. We consider it waste but it is good for dogs. Read this:

http://www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf
http://www.loyallpetfood.com/[email protected]/@all/documents/document/na3025066.pdf

The term "slaughter-house waste" is just an internet buzz word. My dogs can spend an entire afternoon eating deer, horse & rabbit poop, so chicken organs are a big step up. The grade of by-products for pets generally does not include poultry feet but it should. I have about 100lbs of chicken feet in my kennel freezer and I luv feeding chicken feet.

By the way, The Dog Food Advisor is a dentist, not a canine nutritionist. He doesn't actually test any food he just reads the labels. That is a click site. People seems to take is as gospel but it is nothing but BS,

I like Loyall as a high value food. I do not use it but two of my dogs were on it this summer and they did wonderfully.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

My dogs are both on grain-free mix of kibble (although I will not be opposed to mixing in one type with some whole grains like brown rice or oats), they eat kibble for breakfast and they eat raw for dinner, raw is usually duck, beef, lamb, bison, elk or rabbit, and I also mix in a heaping spoonful of frozen-thawed mix fruits/veggies which is a blended mix of bok choy, green leaf lettuce, romaine lettuce, celery, carrots, pears, apples and blueberries, and occasionally I will mix in some home cooked brown or wild rice if leftover into their food, and they get a variety of treats like goat cheese, goat yogurt, raw bones, chicken necks, and dog biscuits etc, and my dogs both look beautiful and resilient..they're coats are shiny and soft, they're healthy, good teeth, no bad breath, lots of energy, my 6.5 year old has only been to the vet 3 times for vaccinations, and my 7 month old has had no issues thus far yet either.

So I really have to disagree that every dog you see that is on a grain-free diet looks terrible, because every dog I know that is on a grain-free diet looks exceptionally healthy, and not only looks it, but is healthy.

I can agree that maybe a grain-free diet isn't the best option for every dog, but not all foods are good for every dog either. Some dogs absolutely cannot tolerate certain grains, etc.. Its about what works for the dog and the budget, its not about believing what people tell you, and relying on biased people..its about finding food(s) that work for your dog, and being educated and aware of ingredients in the foods so you can learn what ingredients your dog may not tolerate as well as others...


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Yes, read all you can and choose something! Feed through a couple bags of it and decide if the condition of the dog is better or worse. I was surprised that all sorts of condition issues improved with the right food. Don't accept smelly ears, coat, mouth, flaky skin, eye goobers and a host of other conditions as they just might be related to food that just doesn't quite suit your dog. I would also read far down the list of ingredients as that good sounding marigold or cranberry might be an issue, not just the lamb meal or potatoes at the top of the list.

Max mostly eats by products but raw, not cooked to death. My concern with by product meals is how the stuff that went into it was treated before it was cooked. If it was piled up too long then the toxins produced by the bacterial load could be quite high and they aren't all denatured by cooking. Since by products include the GIT it includes at least some of the stuff inside the GIT which is loaded with bacteria.

That toxin load could be why Sassy was stinky and had anal sac issues on chicken and rice kibble but the condition cleared up on home cooked chicken and rice. Just guessing and wishing I had tried harder to find a food that suited her instead of accepting her as a stinky hound dog!


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

PackMomma said:


> So I really have to disagree that every dog you see that is on a grain-free diet looks terrible, because every dog I know that is on a grain-free diet looks exceptionally healthy, and not only looks it, but is healthy.
> 
> I can agree that maybe a grain-free diet isn't the best option for every dog, but not all foods are good for every dog either. Some dogs absolutely cannot tolerate certain grains, etc.. Its about what works for the dog and the budget, its not about believing what people tell you, and relying on biased people..its about finding food(s) that work for your dog, and being educated and aware of ingredients in the foods so you can learn what ingredients your dog may not tolerate as well as others...


Exactly. My dog is on the grain-free Fromm food and she is doing fantastic. The vet says she is healthy. *BeingHones*t, I have an issue with you claiming these foods are nothing but garbage or junk. That is your opinion based off what _you_ are reading. How is that anything different than our opinios based off what _we_ are reading? And it's not just what I've read or heard about. This is my own experience with my dog, who I've had since she was 1 year old. She's now 8 years old. I've tried many dog foods, with grains, and without. All the ones with ground whole corn and other grains high up in the ingredient list gave her bad reactions. Yet, when I changed to a better food, there was either no bad reaction, or not as a severe reaction. Is that coincedence? One of the foods even caused her to throw up, every time. In my dog's case, she does well on Fromms grain-free, and I'm not about to change because someone I've never even met with sources I don't know or trust claims it is garbage.


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## Gigit (Dec 30, 2011)

We feed Innova Red Meat


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

Gigit said:


> We feed Innova Red Meat


What kind of dog do you own? Is it the one in your display picture?


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## Little Wise Owl (Nov 12, 2011)

BeingHonest said:


> A landmark study by Cornell found that when corn is cooked it has 3 times the cancer fighting compounds as broccoli.


Cancer appears to be one of the leading causes of death among dogs these days... And most dogs are being fed corn based foods (Purina, Iams, Eukanuba, you know, those big name brands) so... I suppose that theory isn't working out so well for them. 

Jus' sayin'...


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## Gigit (Dec 30, 2011)

Lunachick said:


> What kind of dog do you own? Is it the one in your display picture?


Our dog is in my avatar, Zora is an Australian Shepherd.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

Dog Advocate said:


> Hi PackMomma,
> 
> Ive been through my fair share of dog foods for my "kids" over the years and I'm a second generation dog trainer. I didn't see you had anything listed about Health Extension. Ever heard of it? Its based here in the US but it is sold in CA as well. The food has done wonders for me an anyone I've recommended it too. Overall health and energy has improved and their skin and coats look amazing. My girl is pretty picky but loves this food. Ocassionally I toss in some of the wet food too as a treat. Its all minimal ingredients and they go crazy for it. The food really speaks for its self... Check it out.
> http://www.vetschoice.com/index.php
> If you have any questions about it I'll do my best to answer them for you but like I said... after a lot of research and trial & error runs... this stuff is the best.


It sounds pretty great. I like how there is milk thistle in there. I've been thinking about adding it to my dog's diet as she is on Phenobarb and it has been known to cause liver damage so milk thistle is supposed to help prevent it or slow it down. Nowhere around my area sells it, unfortunately...


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

It looks okay, something I definitely wouldn't hesitate to try as part of my mix and rotations every now and then but its not available in Alberta by the looks of it.

I'm not having any real issues with any of the kibble i've fed and currently feed though, I'm not sure what was or is the direct cause of Thumper's occasional loose stools, but I'm thinking it may have been a slight lactose overdose. Giving him a bit too much yogurt or cheese or other goodies. Might have been one of the kibble mixes though too. 

We sort of tried a diet elimination recently, I put him cold turkey on just straight NOW! Puppy food in the mornings and his usual raw meal in the evening and cut out all treats except Mother Nature's Natural Puppy Biscuits, and he'd get maybe two in a day. Stools hardened up quite a bit and were more consistent, he still pooped frequently, I dont always keep solid track but I know there's always alot of poop in the yard every day to clean up and Cash might only poop once or twice a day max.

So then I started gradually mixing in the previous kibble mix I was using into his NOW! puppy, a little bit each day and didn't seem to affect the stools a whole lot, still poops often but theyre still more consistent and firmer.. but as soon as I introduced the cheese and yogurt again, a couple stools appeared to be runnier- so am I wrong to believe he might be slightly lactose intolerant? I try my very best to only use goat products, as i've been told its easier for them to digest as people who are lactose intolerant can tolerate goats milk, etc. He really enjoys the cheese and yogurt though and I like adding in a little probiotic into his diet once in a while but, regardless of the affected stools, will a peice of goat cheese and a spoonful of goat yogurt a few times a week hurt him in anyway? He doesn't vomit, or appear ill in anway from the dairy, just the looser stool, not runny like diarrhea though.

I have to think he gets sufficient supplement of calcium in his diet from the ground up bones in the raw food, but not sure?

Eitherway, I am going to stick to mixing and rotating kibble, there are so many products and brands available that appear to have good ingredients that I just cant help myself from trying a different ones every so often. I'm going to stick with a 3 mix, but I'll introduce them sorta one by one to note any issues or side affects, and if all 3 are good i will mix together I will just start the next new one by mixing in with the previous mix, then so on.


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## StellaLucyDesi (Jun 19, 2008)

@Lunachick....I checked out vetschoice.com but I couldn't find where any of the foods include milk thistle. Was I missing something?


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## Kérstan (Dec 18, 2011)

katielou said:


> Ahaha says everything.


Exactly. Haha. :amen:


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

StellaLucyDesi said:


> @Lunachick....I checked out vetschoice.com but I couldn't find where any of the foods include milk thistle. Was I missing something?


It's in the Lite for dogs, pretty far down the list. I will show you when I get home if you still haven't found it


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## Kérstan (Dec 18, 2011)

BeingHonest said:


> It is arguably better because it does not contain much muscle meat which has high levels of phosphorus or 'ash'.


I was curious, in this article:

[ http://www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf ]

The third column over and the second paragraph down, it says:



> Poultry by-product meal typically contains more ash ( mineral ) than poultry meal and it has been suggested that higher ash content lowers protein digestibility, but this is not necessarily true. It has been shown that increased ash content does not necessarily reduce the digestibility of the protein or negatively affect the quality of the protein in the ingredient.


So, I'm just confused here. Maybe I read something wrong or misinterpreted?


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## Kérstan (Dec 18, 2011)

DogsWithBeards said:


> Well yes and no. She is referring to the lower grade of "poultry by product meals", not the low ash grades of PBM that are usually used. It might be correct that the higher ash grades are as digestible in the short-term but over the life of the dog the more ash it eats the harder its kidneys are going to work. Also, ash interferes with nutrient absorption, another fact that will not show up in the short-term. For some dogs, ash will never be a problem but for some particularly small dogs, it can end a life too soon.
> 
> I am a stickler for low ash foods, the 32% protein food I use usually tests below 6%, which is about as good as you can get. It uses a very high grade of "chicken meal". Other foods with 25% protein from the same company are below 5%.
> 
> More dog food companies should use the low ash by-product meals, as they have the same amino acid profile, are more palatable and are much cheaper.


I see. I was just confused because *beinghonest* had said that "ash is bad", but the link he/she provided was stating otherwise.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

StellaLucyDesi said:


> @Lunachick....I checked out vetschoice.com but I couldn't find where any of the foods include milk thistle. Was I missing something?


Ok. I'll link you to the product page then list the ingredients here and bold the Milk thistle for you.

http://www.vetschoice.com/productinfo.php?productID=1000001

Ingredients

Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and ascorbic acid and rosemary extract). Lamb Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Fish Meal, Flax Seed, Brewer Dried Yeast, Egg Product, Organic Chicken, Trace Mineral Salt, DL Methione, Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D-3), Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, L-Caratine, Coral Calcium, Vitamin D, Magnesium, Niacin Supplement, Choline Choride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Conjugated (CLA) Acid, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, (source of Vitamin C), Biotin, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Calcium lodate, Sodium Selenite, CoQ10, DHA, *Milk Thistle,* Cranberry Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Omega 3 /Omega 6 Oils, Primrose Oil, Glucosamine, Colostrum, Blue/Green Algae, Green Tea, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Enterococcus faecium, B. Subtillus, Bacillus lichenformis, Bacillus coagulins, Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus niger.

So as you can see, it is pretty far down the list. I'm not sure it would have much affect, but it's in there.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

What do you think about natures variety instinct & how does it compare to TOTW? Izze doesn't like fish foods & they give her really bad gas so fishy foods are out LMBO. But I'm not too fond of diamond foods as a company, I'm not sure if they own TOTW brand or it's just made at their plant, can someone explain this to me pleAse lol. My dogs do very well on TOTW, but like I said I'm not a fan of diamond.


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

I just bought Zoe TOTW High Prairie dog to try. Hopefully she does good on it. If not, I will either try Vet's Choice or back to Fromms.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> What do you think about natures variety instinct & how does it compare to TOTW? Izze doesn't like fish foods & they give her really bad gas so fishy foods are out LMBO. But I'm not too fond of diamond foods as a company, I'm not sure if they own TOTW brand or it's just made at their plant, can someone explain this to me pleAse lol. My dogs do very well on TOTW, but like I said I'm not a fan of diamond.


I fed a rotation of TOTW and Instinct for a while, until my dogs unexpectedly decided they had no interest in any of the Instinct flavors. They are now on TOTW with some freeze dried Stella and Chewy's raw patties crumbled as a topper. 

As far as I know, TOTW is only manufactured by Diamond. I'm not the biggest fan of Diamond either, but since I finally found something that works for my dogs, I'll feed it until I'm given a good reason not to.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> What do you think about natures variety instinct & how does it compare to TOTW? Izze doesn't like fish foods & they give her really bad gas so fishy foods are out LMBO. But I'm not too fond of diamond foods as a company, I'm not sure if they own TOTW brand or it's just made at their plant, can someone explain this to me pleAse lol. My dogs do very well on TOTW, but like I said I'm not a fan of diamond.


TOTW *is* a Diamond food. Unlike Natural Balance, for example, which is manufactured at a Diamond plant but is NOT a Diamond food. If that makes sense.


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

BeingHonest said:


> By the way, The Dog Food Advisor is a dentist, not a canine nutritionist. He doesn't actually test any food he just reads the labels. That is a click site. People seems to take is as gospel but it is nothing but BS,


What's your profession, just curious?


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> TOTW *is* a Diamond food. Unlike Natural Balance, for example, which is manufactured at a Diamond plant but is NOT a Diamond food. If that makes sense.


You're right.. the contact address listed for TOTW is the same one as for Diamond. Wikipedia (not the best source, I know) says Diamond is a contract manufacturer for TOTW. Now I know why they say not to trust Wiki for anything other than bar trivia.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

AgentP said:


> What's your profession, just curious?



This member is banned and won't be allowed back anytime soon.


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## AgentP (Dec 12, 2011)

Lindbert said:


> This member is banned and won't be allowed back anytime soon.


For this thread?


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## Lunachick (Dec 18, 2011)

AgentP said:


> For this thread?


No, from the forums.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> TOTW *is* a Diamond food. Unlike Natural Balance, for example, which is manufactured at a Diamond plant but is NOT a Diamond food. If that makes sense.


Yes, Jackson's mom it makes perfect sense  I was under the assumption that TOTW was "made" st diamond but wasn't "there's", bc I didn't understand (& still don't to some degree) why they would release such a good food "in competition" with their diamond line. I know that lots of companies put out a grain free line, (blue wilderness, NV instinct come to mind) but they are marketed with their companies name wherest TOTW is almost marketed as a different company all together.


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## Lindbert (Dec 12, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> Yes, Jackson's mom it makes perfect sense  I was under the assumption that TOTW was "made" st diamond but wasn't "there's", bc I didn't understand (& still don't to some degree) why they would release such a good food "in competition" with their diamond line. I know that lots of companies put out a grain free line, (blue wilderness, NV instinct come to mind) but they are marketed with their companies name wherest TOTW is almost marketed as a different company all together.


They might know that a lot of people looking for high quality foods usually are not the biggest fans of Diamond. It's sort of like why P&G are keeping all of the Natura foods under the Natura company name. It's all about marketing.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

OIC, not they say taters aren't good for dogs, (except sweet taters) so if I switch from TOTW, what do you recomend that I use, was thinking about NVI (natures variety instinct) or prairie foods? What do you guys think? I also need help, lol.


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## KaywinnitLee (Jan 1, 2012)

My dog has done best on Blue Buffalo Fish and Sweet Potato. Every dog has different needs and will react differently to different foods so really trial and error is best in finding a food that works for your dog. My aunt fed her dog Moist&Meaty Burger&Cheese flavor and tons of table scraps and he lived to be 18 with no health problems so you never know...each dog is unique and while I personally wouldn't recommend "bad" food, it's almost arbitrary because it really is all about what works for YOUR dog. For what it's worth, my dog did not respond well to a lot of higher protein foods that are highly recommended, but then, she's an individual like every other dog. Try a few foods out and pick which one works best! Good luck!


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Mine need the high protien but in the end it's all still a crap shoot lol lol. I wish I know which I could rotate bc Incan only do two kinds with TOTW, Izze doesn't lIke the others that much (doesn't like fish, & the lamb one has ingredients so similar to high prairie that there is no point in switching.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I think NV is a very nice food. 

My personal faves are Acana and Fromm right now. We are now on 2nd bag of Acana and I can say, I can see the differences. I'm still gonna keep Fromm in the rotation but am gonna do the grainfree ones (since they have new ones coming soon).

I was feeding grain inclusive lower protein/fat foods for a few months and when I would give him a bath, sometimes his hair would come out (and he's a non-shedding breed, was very odd for him) or I could pull a few pieces out. Thought it was coincidence. But since being on Acana again, his coat doesn't seem as dull, no 'shedding', he's got more energy, I can almost see his muscle tone better. I really think I'll be sticking to grainfree here on out, it just seems to work better for Jackson and he ate it all of his life until this past summer with 1 stomach issue when I switched to lower fat and really, now looking back, don't think it was necessary.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

I really like Acana too, but I've only fed the "all life stages" grain-free line. Pacifica, Ranchlands, Grasslands & Wild Prairie are all great and i've used all with no issues. I'm swapping out Acana this rotation for NV Instinct, it's my first time feeding it and i've been on Acana for a long time so time to try something new. I'm a fan of the grain-free diet, but this month I am going to mix a grain food in with the other kibble just to see how it does. I haven't decided which one I want to try yet, but I might opt for the NV Prairie variety.. mix in with the NV Instinct and I'm also looking to opt for one of Fromm's grain-free varieties to include in my rotation.

For the most part I'm going to stick with my 3 variety in main protiens for the kibble mix, so I will have one with a red meat source, a fish and a white meat - but one of them I will use a grain inclusive and 2 will be grain-free. My other goal is to have only one of the mix to include potato ingredients (because there is so much controversy with potatoes I dont want to overfeed it, but I dont think its neccessary for me to completely eliminate it either) but its hard to find grain-free foods without potato ingredients! lol the only one I can think at the top of my head is NV Instinct (that is widely available to me). 

The grain-free mixes I was feeding previously, all contained potatoes (Acana, NOW!, Timberwolf, etc). I never thought anything about it, I didn't notice any real issues with the dogs but I'm just going to try and feed only one potato inclusive type at a time, same with the grain inclusive and opt for another grain-free variety that contains a different binder such as peas or tapioca. Hopefully this way they are getting a little bit of everything and not too much or too less of a particular ingredient. We will see how it goes. It might be better that I just feed the grain-inclusive mix to Thumper, the carbs wouldn't hurt him as he burns so much energy but not sure Cash would do well on it, he had some minor issues on grain-inclusive kibble years ago. Might just give him a little at first and see how he does.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Interesting, I might try NVI, but I have read that dogs have had probs with the clay in the food, I wonder if I will have that prob, plus they have too many Protien sources in their foods IMO, in the future, I might try it & see what they do, I only buy the small bag, which lasts us about three weeks or so & to make sure that it doesn't go stale or anything like hat (I have a container, but still lol. 

So, what have YOU guys used/ recomend? I have used:
TOTW: I would tenitavely recomend it (fed a rotation for a long time only recently started trying other brands)
Merrick BG: so far it's hit here 

Brands I'm planning on trying: wellness core, C&P grain free line, NVI. 

I'm kinda limited cuz I don't really know the area here so I don't know where there are any pet speciality stores here so I'm kinda stuck with Petco lol.


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## PackMomma (Sep 26, 2011)

I was a little put off by the clay ingredient in the NVI/NVP too, but I'm all for trying new things. I like NV's ingredients for the most part, and I like rotating and trying new things so why not. I decided to go with the NVP this rotation, as I've mentioned I wanted to include a grain variety this time around as well. The store I went to didn't have the NVI kind I wanted (rabbit or salmon), so I went with the NVP Salmon & brown rice. Next go around though I will go to my usual store and get an NVI, like I said, I'd really like to try a grain-free variety that doesn't contain potatoes, and so far the only one I can find that doesn't is NV. I'm trying to do some further research about this "clay", I'm sure it must be added as a binder of some kind, but I'm not sure. I do know though, that my younger dog loves digging up the soil and eating clay LOL. Same with roots, he loves roots.

I will report if I notice any issues with this brand though. the NVP has clay as well.

Have you ever heard of Timberwolf? I actually really like this food as well. Most websites for these petfoods will have store locators, so you can search to see if theyre sold in your area.

For my next rotation I'm planning to use NVI rabbit or salmon, Timberwolf, and I'm actually curious about trying EVO at some point too. I had a glance at the ingredient listing on their grain-free, and it was actually not too bad. 

Fromm's is on my list too


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

It's some naturally occurring mineral that is supposed to bind to & remOve toxins or something like that :shrug: I might try it but fish is so high on the list, I hope Izze will like it :/


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## pcride (Jan 12, 2012)

I started on Eukanuba and later found its not the best food, mainly because they changed their ingredients when Proctal and Gambel bought them out. Since then there have been reports they have changed their main ingredients and are using more fillers and less actual meat and using more meal. 

Since then I have researched and decided to go with Solid Gold, which is on the top 10 list of dog foods. I compared the ingredients to others and for now they seem to have high protien and low controversial ingredients.

The 2 items that were questionable for Solid Gold was the taurine was imported from China, however the company says they scrutinize and test the quality before using it. Also that the food contained Ocean meal and it couldn't be verified.

As I go a long I'll continue to research, I agree with other members; need to find the right food for the dog.

*Solid Gold Hundchen Flocken Puppy
Dry Dog Food*​Ingredients: Lamb, lamb meal, ocean fish meal, brown rice, millet, cracked pearled barley, *canola oil, tomato pomace*, rice bran, flaxseed, natural flavor, salmon oil (source of DHA), choline chloride, taurine, dried chicory root, amaranth, parsley flakes, spearmint, almond oil, sesame oil, Yucca schidigera extract, kelp, thyme, blueberries, cranberries, apples, lentils, quinoa, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium panthothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, vitamin D supplement, folic acid
Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 4.4%
Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients


HANK!!!


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## harleypup (Jun 2, 2011)

We feed our Chihuahuas Innova Red Meat Small bites and have been happy with it since we started about a year ago. We have been reasearching other high end foods to rotate but it has been hard to make a decission due to past recalls or ingredients. 
As long as Innova gives good results we will stay with this brand.


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