# Well it finally happened to me (pitbull attack) :(



## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

A few days ago I created a thread asking about mange. My neighbors had taken in a mistreated pitbull, and I was hoping it didn't have mange. (http://www.dogforums.com/13-dog-health-questions/81478-mange.html) Well it turns out, this dog ended up attacking my dog (Cowboy) while he was lying on the ground chewing on a bone. He got him in several places but this is the worst spot:


























The first picture was taken at 11pm last night, after it first happened.
The other pictures were taken today at 1pm.

My dog just wanted to get away. He has no aggression in him. The other dog jumped the fence, run up to him, and just started tearing at his face. I seen what was going to happen but I couldn't get there in time. I was under the impression that they were keeping him away from other dogs, but he got loose. So now, my poor baby's beautiful face is torn up. I had been keeping my dog inside because I was afraid of this, but he was outside relieving himself while I walked to the car. He had just been lying down for a minute chewing on his bone. I'm grateful I was able to get there in time before he tore him up any worse. 

I have nothing against pitbulls. All breeds of dogs can be just as aggressive. But the problem with a pitbull is that when it decides to attack, it locks onto and SHREDS flesh. If an aggressive chihuahua attacked my dog, it most likely wouldn't have done this kind of damage. I've seen many dogs get into fights, and pitbulls are the most deadly in my opinion.

My heart is broken. I cried and cried and cried because I feel like its my fault. Cowboy is my responsibility, and I failed him. The worst part is, there isn't an emergency vet to take him to. I am keeping his wounds clean and they are starting to close up. The inside is turning green, as you can see from the picture. This might be due to the wound glue that I used to put his face back together. 

I know this sounds horrible to most dog people, but after the attack last night I gave Cowboy a shot of coconut rum mixed with milk to calm his nerves (he loved it!). After about 30 minutes he was lying down on the floor and relaxing. His trauma shakes went away, too. He even allowed me to touch him all over his face, which was good because I needed to glue pieces of it back together. He slept really well last night, right beside my bed. This morning, he seemed normal and back to his old self.

My neighbors are getting rid of the pitbull.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm so sorry your dog was attacked. Hopefully there will be no repercussions for him in the future. My dogs have all been attacked before and have responded well over time and harbor no long lasting issues.

But, I do have some issues with your post as I'm sure others will, maybe even beat me to responding. First, your thread title. It finally happened? Were you expecting a Pit attack to happen on your dog, like it is common place in a dogs life to be attacked by a Pit? Also, of course a Chihuahua bite is going to differ from a Pit bite. That is apples and oranges. But I have been bitten by all sorts of dogs (none of them Pits or even bully breeds) and a Miniature Dachshund send me to the ER with a wound clear to the bone. Any dog attack can be fatal. You also sound triumphant that the Pit will be "gotten rid of" Obviously he shouldn't be with your neighbors if they can't contain him properly or would rather give him away than managing him, but this isn't the dogs fault in any way. 

And as an after thought.. please don't give your dog alcohol or milk or a combination of the two.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

It is common in this area for pitbulls to attack other dogs, as this is what many stupid people use them for... fighting. You don't hear of poodle fights or australian shepherd fighting rings, now do you? OF COURSE IM HAPPY THE PITBULL IS GOING TO BE GONE. Thats a given! I don't want him to be around anymore to attack my dog in his own yard! I know it isn't the dog's fault, its mine for not making sure they got rid of the pitbull before he attacked my dog. The the size of the jaws/teeth on a pitbull and the way they lock onto other dogs IS dangerous, and anyone who says otherwise obviously hasn't seen it happen.

Thanks for expressing your sympathy, but your post didn't make me feel any better about my dog getting mauled.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

its not dangerous. and ive seen it happen. 

what's dangerous about it is how people react to it. its understandable that they react the way they do. but unfortunately, that's often what makes the difference between a minor scuffle and an all out brawl.

he really doesnt look that bad to me. ive seen a lot worse. worst fight i ever saw was when my friend's pit bull was killed by a mastiff mix. he disembowled her. 

you said the pit bull had been mistreated and was ill. this situation is understandable in light of that fact. 

your dog will be fine. his injuries dont look too bad.

i dont mean to offend but honestly..i feel more sorry for the pit bull. he was mistreated, sick, mishandled(otherwise he wouldnt have escaped) and now he's likely going to die.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> It is common in this area for pitbulls to attack other dogs, as this is what many stupid people use them for... fighting. You don't hear of poodle fights or australian shepherd fighting rings, now do you? OF COURSE IM HAPPY THE PITBULL IS GOING TO BE GONE. Thats a given! I don't want him to be around anymore to attack my dog in his own yard! I know it isn't the dog's fault, its mine for not making sure they got rid of the pitbull before he attacked my dog. The the size of the jaws/teeth on a pitbull and the way they lock onto other dogs IS dangerous, and anyone who says otherwise obviously hasn't seen it happen.
> 
> Thanks for expressing your sympathy, but your post didn't make me feel any better about my dog getting mauled.


Now we're talking about dog fighting rings? I didn't think this thread was about which dog was most common to be used in a set up fight. I was referencing the point that I don't as a dog owner (and I'm also in a heavily Pit populated area, but I have never personally seen a dog fight so I can't contest to what they're being used for) expect a Pit to attack my dogs at some point. It isn't a course of life. 

Pits jaws don't lock. It's physically impossible and has been debunked many times. I have also been on the receiving end of much more brutal bites, and witnessed some fights that would make you hair curl including a particularly nasty one between Beagles. One of the dogs lost an ear and an eye. 

My goal was not to make you feel bad, but your post didn't make Pit lovers and owners feel any better, either. They fight hard enough against the bad rap and the irresponsible owners like your neighbors to be tarnished by not understanding the breed. If you REALLY wanted just sympathy, you should have left out all the Pit falsities and jargon. It does not make me happy that any dog is hurt by another dog. 

As for the alcohol and milk, sorry, I just can't change my mind there.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> You don't hear of poodle fights or australian shepherd fighting rings, now do you? .


i didnt see this before..

but actually...not poodles or aussies...but in places like Pakistan the dog fighting rings do not heavily consist of pit bulls. they're mostly livestock guardian breeds. same with russia.

i think..i think...at least your posts read like you're frazzled and upset. that's understandable. im not really a person who tends towards sympathy per se..

but what i can offer you is a rational head, experienced with pit bulls so that you can better make sense of what happened and how might you better resolve the sitution if something like this should happen again

the worst thing in the world in regards to dogfight is not being prepared.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

I've also seen a bull mastiff attack our border collie at our ranch. That one was shot on the spot. Had to be to prevent him from killing our BC. This dog had jumped out of the back of a truck because his owners hadn't tied him in, and instantly jumped the BC. 

Thank you for your comment in regards to my dog's injuries. I'm glad they aren't any worse. He will be ok.

So the next time a pitbull attacks my dog I shouldn't react to it? Just let him finish killing my dog? I'm sorry, buy MY reaction was what saved my dog. If I would have had my pistol, the dog would have been dead right then. But the neighbors already took the dog out and buried him themselves, so thank goodness I didn't have to kill a dog. There is no shelter to take him to, and at this point he had become a HUGE liability for them because of what he did to Cowboy.

In this area, pitbulls are fought often. They are kept on tiny thin cables and stayed chained for most of their lives unless they are fighting. They break cables and I see them running down the street, starved and missing hair. Its horrible, and not their fault. 

As for the jaws of a pit, they do lock. They won't let go. Once the teeth sink in, they don't release easily. If you try and pull the pit off, he will shred the flesh even worse. My neighbors were just trying to help this dog out. Bad idea. Even if the pit were to be taken to a shelter, he would have been put down.

To all the responsible dog owners out there: Thank you for taking good care of your dog and raising him to be a well socialized and happy living being. Hopefully your dog will never have to experience what mine did. I feel so angry about it, although I'm not mad at the dog or the breed. Just the act.


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## BooLette (Jul 11, 2009)

I'm really sorry that this happened to your poor guy. I most likely would have the same sentiments as you in regards to being glad that the pit was gone. I don't think that you should give your dog any kind of alcohol however as it is very dehydrating and I doubt it will do him any good while in the healing process. He looks like he is going to heal up just fine and it appears to only be a superficial wound. Dogs are very resilient creatures.



> It finally happened? Were you expecting a Pit attack to happen on your dog, like it is common place in a dogs life to be attacked by a Pit?


Sometimes I really feel this way. It is very rare around here to come across a person owning a pit bull that understands the breed or manages them properly.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> So the next time a pitbull attacks my dog I shouldn't react to it? Just let him finish killing my dog? I'm sorry, buy MY reaction was what saved my dog. If I would have had my pistol, the dog would have been dead right then. But the neighbors already took the dog out and buried him themselves, so thank goodness I didn't have to kill a dog. There is no shelter to take him to, and at this point he had become a HUGE liability for them because of what he did to Cowboy.


Yes, that is exactly what was said. We recognize you're upset, but don't wander so far off the beaten path and make such statements. No one here wishes for any harm to come to any dog, including your neighbors Pit. You keep saying you know it's not the dogs fault, but then making statements quite to the contrary. It is very sad for your dog, and that the Pit will have to be put to sleep. Dog aggression is NOT a euthanasia offense to me, but unfortunately he likely won't go to a home or a shelter that could provide him with training, management, and a safe environment. 



Cowgirl Kristin said:


> As for the jaws of a pit, they do lock. They won't let go. Once the teeth sink in, they don't release easily. If you try and pull the pit off, he will shred the flesh even worse. My neighbors were just trying to help this dog out. Bad idea. Even if the pit were to be taken to a shelter, he would have been put down.


No, they don't lock, but I think you're confusing that myth with the way they bite and hold with using the word lock. Breaking a Pits bite is not impossible. I'm sad for every one involved in this situation and I empathize. We have a neighbor with three dogs, two of which are very dog aggressive, and one of which is a very large Pit mix. They like to have them in their front yard, unleashed and unfenced and it's a situation we're currently fighting. I would not hesitate to hurt their dogs in an effort to protect my own.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> .So the next time a pitbull attacks my dog I shouldn't react to it?


did i say that? i think you're a bit overreacting to my post. 

what im talking about is reacting calmly to situations like this. swifty, decisively and calmly. pit bulls feed off of human energy. the more agitated a human is, the more agitated a pit bull will get. do not hit, beat, kick or any other such thing. that ultimately makes things worse. you walk over, scruff the dog and simply pry him off. its a little more complicated than that but i can give you more detail if you would care to listen.





> As for the jaws of a pit, they do lock. They won't let go. Once the teeth sink in, they don't release easily. If you try and pull the pit off, he will shred the flesh even worse


. 

im sorry but this is patently false. ive pried two pit bulls apart with my bare hands and there was little more than scratches. its a matter of attitude and of knowing what you're doing. the fact that you would even say such a thing is proof that you panicked. im not condemning you for panicking, its a natural reaction. but i know pit bulls. and they do not have locking jaws. at all. physically, biologically, patently impossible.

that dog could have gone on to live a good life in the right hands. the dog you see in my sig? she attacked another dog the day i got her..before i was aware she was dog aggressive. 

it hasnt happened since..and she's nearing the end of her life. and has yet to be "a liability".


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## GSD (Jul 18, 2010)

Pit bulls can not lock their jaws. i am glad that you will not have to worry about the dog getting to yours again. I would use DMSO on the would it wont scar.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

BooLette, thank you.  I don't plan on giving Cowboy any more shots of rum. His wounds weren't bleeding much last night, and the alcohol really calmed him down, but he is fine now.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

ThoseWordsAtBest said:


> You keep saying you know it's not the dogs fault, but then making statements quite to the contrary. It is very sad for your dog, and that the Pit will have to be put to sleep.


The neighbors already killed (shot?) the dog, if you didn't see that part. Sad.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

I guess my definition of the word lock is different. But they do grab ahold and won't let go easily. It didn't take much to get the dog off of mine, and I am thankful for that. 

I appreciate the suggestions.

I hate to see dogs get harmed, but if my dog is being attacked I have a right to use my pistol instead of sticking my hand into its mouth or near its mouth to get its jaws off of my dog. I'm not trained to do that correctly nor do I truly care to try it. Grabbing the dog by the back legs and pulling him off causes tearing and ripping. 

Thinking of all this is highly upsetting. The whole scene keeps replaying in my head. I'm gonna need a few days to cool down.



Willowy said:


> The neighbors already killed (shot?) the dog, if you didn't see that part. Sad.


I didn't expect them to do that. I expected that they would take it somewhere or give it away. I didn't wish for it to be dead, only far far away from my dog!


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Willowy said:


> The neighbors already killed (shot?) the dog, if you didn't see that part. Sad.


I guess I did miss that. What a shame. Another pup who probably didn't have a chance from the beginning.


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## Jare (Aug 12, 2009)

Threads like this make me want to go cuddle Aija.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm sorry this happened, and I'm sorry you're frustrated and slightly misinformed as well. 

I'm glad you didn't have your pistol on you though, you probably would have shot your own dog in the process. 

It's a shame the pit got shot too. If I were in this position I would be reporting the neighbors for animal abuse and (potentially) breaking the law of burying dead things in their yard. I know around here that's illegal. You obviously wanted this to happen to the pit though, so I know you won't be doing anything against them getting rid of him.


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## Miranda16 (Jan 17, 2010)

i think you should really listen to some of the people here ... especially zim ... who i consider as close to a bully breed expert as i have seen/heard of and most others on here because these are some of the most dog informed people i have ever encountered

there are ways to cause a dog to stop biting without ripping and shredding skin as well as not sticking your hand into or near its mouth.... i am curious why you wouldnt want to know these things MOST ESPECIALLY when you say this:
"In this area, pitbulls are fought often. They are kept on tiny thin cables and stayed chained for most of their lives unless they are fighting. They break cables and I see them running down the street, starved and missing hair. Its horrible, and not their fault."

I understand you were OBVIOUSLY upset as anybody would be ... but even being that upset i personally would never wish harm on a dog and would most certainly not inflict or wish death upon ANY animal such as shooting it ... plus i think shooting at an animal to try and get it off your own is almost to the point of stupid .. these dogs are constantly moving ... if you miss .. even by millimeters you could end up severely harming your own animal or worse...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

DJEtzel said:


> It's a shame the pit got shot too. If I were in this position I would be reporting the neighbors for animal abuse and (potentially) breaking the law of burying dead things in their yard. I know around here that's illegal. You obviously wanted this to happen to the pit though, so I know you won't be doing anything against them getting rid of him.


Not illegal here....almost certainly not illegal in Texas. Unfortunately.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm so sorry about Cowboy. I hope he heals nicely and fast.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> It is common in this area for pitbulls to attack other dogs, as this is what many stupid people use them for... fighting. You don't hear of poodle fights or australian shepherd fighting rings, now do you? OF COURSE IM HAPPY THE PITBULL IS GOING TO BE GONE. Thats a given! I don't want him to be around anymore to attack my dog in his own yard! I know it isn't the dog's fault, its mine for not making sure they got rid of the pitbull before he attacked my dog. The the size of the jaws/teeth on a pitbull and the way they lock onto other dogs IS dangerous, and anyone who says otherwise obviously hasn't seen it happen.
> 
> Thanks for expressing your sympathy, but your post didn't make me feel any better about my dog getting mauled.


 
Pits do NOT lock their jaws, that's a myth, they also do NOT have the strongest bite strength in the dog world. It's your NEIGHBORS fault for not properly containing a dog (no matter the breed) who had been mistreated who's history was unknown. 

As far as saying people such as TWAB don't know what they're talking about when it comes to pits, that's like saying Chris Leduex doesn't know country music or Frank Bell doesn't know horse training. These girls are experienced Pit owners and Zim's training specializes on training DA Pitties so their owners can safely manage them. 

Also, do not give any dog alcohol, if your dog needs a sedative ask for some Ace or valium from your vet, both are cheap and far more safe for your dog.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

No, nothing anyone did was illegal. This isn't a city, you can bury your animals where ever you please. If any animal was latched on my dog or a child, and I did have my gun, I would walk up to it and shoot it. No one can change my mind about that. But I understand how people who don't know much about guns would have a problem with this. Its just different how people see things in Texas (excluding the big cities), I guess. 

Well Cowboy's wound seems to be healing quickly. I've been cleaning it often and putting med on it.

For those of you who have said kind things and wished for Cowboy's recovery, thank you greatly.


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## Kawgirl (Feb 1, 2009)

Just for reference, what IS the best way to separate fighting dogs? I have a small dog. What would be the best way to get a larger dog such as a pit off of her, if god forbid that ever happened?


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> No, nothing anyone did was illegal. This isn't a city, you can bury your animals where ever you please. If any animal was latched on my dog or a child, and I did have my gun, I would walk up to it and shoot it. No one can change my mind about that. But I understand how people who don't know much about guns would have a problem with this. Its just different how people see things in Texas (excluding the big cities), I guess.
> 
> Well Cowboy's wound seems to be healing quickly. I've been cleaning it often and putting med on it.
> 
> For those of you who have said kind things and wished for Cowboy's recovery, thank you greatly.


I'm a good shot and if my dog and another dog were in a real fight I'd probably have a hard time getting a shot off without hitting my dog. Plus pistols are a lot harder to aim then a rifle. 

There are a lot of misconceptions in your posts- as said pit bull dogs do not lock their jaw and in terms of bite pressure there are certain other breeds (Such as the GSD) that have stronger bites overall. This has been proven in studies done on the issue. It may seem like it, but its not the case.

If my dog was attacked I would also be upset- and I can understand how you feel. However, I read your original post about that dog and I have to say I feel really sorry for it. It seems like it was in a terrible condition to begin with. 

As an aside its also quite legal here (in the rural areas) to shoot dogs. I see people mentioning it all the time in the local newspaper's forum...someone mentioning they recently shot a wild looking pitbull on their property


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Kawgirl said:


> Just for reference, what IS the best way to separate fighting dogs? I have a small dog. What would be the best way to get a larger dog such as a pit off of her, if god forbid that ever happened?


For an actual pit, a break stick is a great tool (although I'd be nervous to use it on a strange dog). For any breed of dog, grabbing the attacker by the back legs and wheelbarrowing him away (in circles so he has to keep walking and can't turn and bite you) is a good method.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Kaw girl how you seperate a dog figt has a bit to do with the type of dog that is the aggressor. Pit bulls are MUCH less likly to redirect their aggression on a human that is trying to break them up, this is why break sticks work so well on Pits because they don't turn to bit the person near them. However if it's a breed such as an aussie, collie, german shepherd, attacking another dog it can be very dangerous to get near the aggressive dogs head since these breeds are much more likly to grab whatever is nearest and bite multiple times in a fight, for dogs like that the grab the back legs and drag them backwards method works better.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Kawgirl said:


> Just for reference, what IS the best way to separate fighting dogs? I have a small dog. What would be the best way to get a larger dog such as a pit off of her, if god forbid that ever happened?


The wheel barrow method does in fact work well, but you ARE breaking up a fight and it is dangerous. You grab the hind legs and "wheel barrow" backwards. After you get the dog off keep hold and move in a circle to prevent the dog from turning back on you. The last thing you want to do in a dog fight is grab a collar. 

Honestly, I have a Miniature Dachshund and I don't hold out much hope if a large dog were to pick him up. I would fight tooth and nail to save him, but I also own and carry a break stick because my mutt bites and holds and is VERY strong and has been in a scrap or two in her day. You have to remember (which is easy to say because I would be hysterical) that hitting the offending dog likely is going to do nothing more than amp them up. If any large dog were to attack and have my little guy, I would honestly say the finger in the anus is the option I would go for over trying to pry or yank my dog away.


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## Bones (Sep 11, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> For an actual pit, a break stick is a great tool (although I'd be nervous to use it on a strange dog). For any breed of dog, grabbing the attacker by the back legs and wheelbarrowing him away (in circles so he has to keep walking and can't turn and bite you) is a good method.


How long do you have to wheel-barrel without worry about the dog turning on you...I've been wondering about that... We have a few, I won't say aggressive, but quite agitated dogs behind fences when I take Bones on walks. I've thought about what I'd do if one got out.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I've never actually had to use that method (and hope I never do), but from what I've read, the goal is to get the dog into a fence or some other secure location before letting go. If you're alone and breaking up a dog fight, you can loop a leash around the dog's back loin, wheelbarrow him over to a fence or something and secure him there. That makes sense, but doesn't sound easy!

Honestly, my dogs are so little (10-12 lbs) that one bite from an attacking dog could be devastating. I would do whatever I could to prevent an attack. They've already been rushed by a growling loose dog (big black lab), and that time I (unwisely) grabbed his collar and hoisted him up off the ground. I would hope I'd remember not to go for the collar if a dog ever actually grabbed one of mine.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

honistly bones, I would hang on tight to the dog untill someone could get a slip leash over the dogs neck. even when they appear to calm down a fearful dog can wait till you let go then turn around and get you before it runs off.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Kawgirl said:


> Just for reference, what IS the best way to separate fighting dogs? I have a small dog. What would be the best way to get a larger dog such as a pit off of her, if god forbid that ever happened?



if it was a pit bull?

http://www.apbtconformation.com/teeth_skullteethdiagram.jpg
thats a pit bull's skull. do you see the space between the last and the second to last premolar?









then you need something shaped like this. 

you take the planed end and shove it between the teeth where ive indicated and give an easy twist. as you twist, pull the dog back by the scruff, slam his head to the ground and plant your knee on his neck. 

if its something other than a bully or mastiff breed....wheelbarrow the dog.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Bones said:


> How long do you have to wheel-barrel without worry about the dog turning on you...I've been wondering about that... We have a few, I won't say aggressive, but quite agitated dogs behind fences when I take Bones on walks. I've thought about what I'd do if one got out.


What keechak says here is probably the best way to go, especially if you don't know the dog. 



Keechak said:


> honistly bones, I would hang on tight to the dog untill someone could get a slip leash over the dogs neck. even when they appear to calm down a fearful dog can wait till you let go then turn around and get you before it runs off.


However, I was recently in a dog fight and aside from getting bit, after the fight was over it only took a couple of seconds for the dog I pulled out to calm down and be handle-able. Still very frazzled and on edge, but touchable, nonetheless.


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## GSD (Jul 18, 2010)

When breaking up a dog fight with a pit bull do not EVER EVER pull the dogs apart, you can wheel barrel a pit all you want wont work, I have seen people hit the pits with chains in the head i have seen them try to burn them with a match on the nose these methods enraged the pit bull and caused lots of shaking, water wont help and chocking them is dangerous because they wont let go. The best way is to straddle the pit bull holding his flank area in between your legs, grab his neck skin to hold his head steady so he cant shake, any sturdy stick will work that will wedge into his back teeth. Twist the stick backwards and at the same time pull on the dogs head/scruff, when he lets go squeeze with your legs and turn him around.


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## mrjrdrben (Jul 29, 2010)

Now, if a dog were to turn on a human, what would you guys consider wrong, or right. A few years back, my uncle snapped a dogs neck when it started to rip at his leg after he got it off of my dog Jessie. Would anyone consider this to be overboard, and that there are better ways to get a dog to stop, or do you think it should have been done?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

mrjrdrben said:


> Now, if a dog were to turn on a human, what would you guys consider wrong, or right. A few years back, my uncle snapped a dogs neck when it started to rip at his leg after he got it off of my dog Jessie. Would anyone consider this to be overboard, and that there are better ways to get a dog to stop, or do you think it should have been done?


i consider stopping the animal with as minimum an amount of force as possible to be the ideal. if you HAVE to kill it, you have to..but that means there's no other choice. 

but if you dont HAVE to kill or hurt it..then you shouldnt. its an animal and whether we like it or not, aggression IS natural. to outright kill an animal for being aggressive if you dont have to...it's not necessary. if you dont have to kill it..you subdue it..assess whether the aggression can be cured..if so..do that...if not..humanely euthanize it. 

Killing and maiming in the heat of the moment changes YOU. it makes it that much easier to do it again..and you much quicker to jump to that point.


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## mrjrdrben (Jul 29, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> i consider stopping the animal with as minimum an amount of force as possible to be the ideal. if you HAVE to kill it, you have to..but that means there's no other choice.
> 
> but if you dont HAVE to kill or hurt it..then you shouldnt. its an animal and whether we like it or not, aggression IS natural. to outright kill an animal for being aggressive if you dont have to...it's not necessary. if you dont have to kill it..you subdue it..assess whether the aggression can be cured..if so..do that...if not..humanely euthanize it.
> 
> Killing and maiming in the heat of the moment changes YOU. it makes it that much easier to do it again..and you much quicker to jump to that point.


How would you subdue an aggressive dog? Whats the proper way to keep it constrained, and keep it from getting to you?


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

mrjrdrben said:


> How would you subdue an aggressive dog? Whats the proper way to keep it constrained, and keep it from getting to you?


depends on the dog. some dogs will simply cool off once they've been yanked off their target. you simply leash those dogs to the nearest stable grounding mechanism and step away.


if they dont. you have to be observant.

different dogs have different styles of attack..some of that is breed related and some of it is general temperament related.

i group dogs into two different biting categories

snappers and grippers. 

breeds more likely to be snappy are some herders, a lot of retrievers..dogs bred to use their mouths in particular softer ways tend toward a "bite/release bite/release" style. there are exceptions to this of course.

breeds more likely to be grippers are molossers(mastiffs, bulldogs, bull terrier types) regular terriers and protection type dogs. there are again exceptions.

scared dogs are more likely to be snappy. dogs attacking out of fear, they attack wildly..no real focus...just a "get away from me RITE NAO!!!" kind of panic. Dogs with health condition based aggression are also more likely to be snappy because its usually either a seizure type occurance or its another "get away" type reaction except this time its because the dog is uncomfortable and doesnt want to be touched in a way that causes him pain.

territorial/Dog aggressive/bullying type aggression can go either way and will likely depend more on breed, age and other factors like that. 

the wheelbarrow works well to separate snappers. once you get the dogs apart, if they are redirecting on you you have several options dependant on where you are and what you have with you. its been my experience in dealing with aggressive dogs that one of the best things you can carry to deal with this is a sturdy spare leash and collar of the buckle variety. a buckle collar with the tongue already threaded through the buckle can be swung onto the jaws and pulled tight..effectively creating a muzzle to contain the dog while you leash him and tie him up.

for grippers...if they are molossers(pit bulls, mastiffs, various types of bulldogs) you use the breakstick method to disengage the dog and then repeat the above exercise.

if you dont have a spare leash/collar(also good to carry in case one finds a lonely stray) then you gotta get a little more creative. if you're in a house..disengage the dogs and throw the aggressor into a spare room and shut the door untill they chill out. if you are out and about..this is where you have to get physical. i dont recommend my own personal method which is i wear a pair of heavy military boots, entice the dog to go for my foot and then use that as leverage to get ahold of his neck with my knees and push him to the ground and basically sit on him. if a dog has you and is hurting you..do what you must. just remember that different dogs react differently to pain. some dogs will become MORE excited if you fight back. 

the key thing though..in ANY situation regarding dogs in a fury is this. stay as calm as you can. assess the situation before you take crazy action. because if you go trundling into a dogfight, screaming and throwing blows..you can EASILY escalate things. panic is both you and the dog's enemy. a second to assess the situation can save you and the dogs a whole lot of pain by preventing an illadvised response. i know that's a lot harder than it sounds for most people..but its really the most important thing. dont be rash. breathe, look and then act. if you're concerned about these things, the best thing to do is before it ever happens, have a plan in place..if x happens, im going to do y. if a happens, im going to do b. and so on.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Kawgirl said:


> Just for reference, what IS the best way to separate fighting dogs? I have a small dog. What would be the best way to get a larger dog such as a pit off of her, if god forbid that ever happened?


Grab the back legs, finger in the anus if neccesary, if that doesn't work, a break stick (can improvise with a crowbar if needed) inserted at the back of the mouth.



mrjrdrben said:


> Now, if a dog were to turn on a human, what would you guys consider wrong, or right. A few years back, my uncle snapped a dogs neck when it started to rip at his leg after he got it off of my dog Jessie. Would anyone consider this to be overboard, and that there are better ways to get a dog to stop, or do you think it should have been done?


 
Yes, I would consider it overboard, misdirected aggression is often the result of a self defense mechanism that EVERY animal has, including us. If you're in a fight and someone grabs you, you're going to come around swinging, same with dogs, they don't have fists, so they bite. That's why I strongly advise the wheelbarrow method FIRST no matter the breed as it keeps you away from the 'business end'. 

As far as shooting the dog, handguns are often ineffective, especailly in terrier breeds and molossors as the skull is thicker. My mother once shot her GSD bitch after it attacked and killed her Pom (litterally snapping the Pom in two), it didn't kill the bitch, in fact the bullet didn't penetrate the skull (.32), the vet removed it under a local and mom rehomed the bitch to an only dog home. It takes a rifle to do the job 'properly' but honestly, dog aggression can be dealt with in far better ways. As far as biting humans, I draw the line at attacking family members, aggresion toward strangers can again, be mitigated and managed with proper training. I also draw the line at dogs that attack with no 'warning' first (growl/snap) or intentionally stalk humans. It's VERY rare for a dog to be both dog aggressive and human aggressive.


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## raafley (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm new to this forum and from England where, as you probably know Pits are banned, not because of the dog but because of how the owners were bringing them up. Over here if a bull breed attacks it does immense damage as all we have to stop an attack is our hands. They were banned because some children had been killed by them (and non banned breeds) and so the Dangerous Dogs Act was introduced and the pit was one of the breeds to come under the hatchet. Now we have Staffordshire Bull Terriers being used in the same way by irresponsible owners. Many are crossed with Bullmastiffs and are now taking the place of the Pit.
I cannot excuse the way some folk over here raise their dogs and use them as status symbols, having owned adorable Staffies in the past it breaks my heart to see what this breed is going through.
It's not the dog, it's the owner behind them who is to blame. The Dangerous Dogs Act over here is due to be changed in time - it always takes forever and a "Deed not Breed" approach is going to be introduced with the owner taking full responsibility.

I am so sorry for what your dog has gone through, having had a dog of mine killed in the steet by another dog some years ago.
I wish him a speedy recovery and try not to hang on to this experience (like I have) as it can ruin your trust in other dogs for a very long time.


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm not going to sugarcoat my reply. If I ever felt that my dog's or family members' life were in SERIOUS danger, I would kill the attacking dog. I'm not going to lose MY dog because SOMEONE ELSE'S dog ran away and attacked mine. Just as I see fit to kill humans that would put my family's life in danger, I see a dog putting my dog's life in danger. If someone was trying to kill your mom and you had the chance to kill them so they would stop, wouldn't you? I feel the same way about any animal putting my pet in danger.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Pitbulls DON'T have locking jaws. That is a myth. They just have some serious bite pressure (enough to rip the side view mirror off a car).

Second I wouldn'tbe gluueing anyuthing back on your dogs face. If he has a wound and the tissue is going to go necrotic then gluing dead or dying tissue back onto his face is only going to make things worse. What you should have done since you couldn't take him to a vet was to keep the wound clean, repeated soakings with an antiseptic fluid, flusing it several times a day. If his issue was bad enough to need surgical glue to put him back together then you should have gotten him to a vet. Often a vet wouldn't even suture a wound like that after the first hour because all that does is trap the bacteria IN the wound. 

Ok so what ahve you done to the owners of the pitbull? Insist they get rid of it? Great now it will go attack some other poor dog with an unsuspecting owner because you certainly don't expect the people to tell the truth about why they're getting rid of him do you. Did you report the attack to animal control? Dog warden? Police? If not then that's a big fat shame on YOU... it needs to be reported. If dog fighting is that common down there it may likely be a fighting dog that got away from their owner, and if it IS then NO ONE is safe until it is dealt with properly. 

Don't get me wrong, I am a great advocate for pitties, but you need to draw the line somewhere. It's not fair this guy has been abused, neglected, fought, mistreated, ill, or what have you, but at this point all that pretty much becomes moot. This dog is now a danger to any other animal (and who knows maybe even people) it will likely come across. I would absolutely insist on a quarantine period to make sure it doesn't have rabies or some other disease your dog could get. Lastly you don't give anyone animal or human alcohol for a bleeding wound. Alcohol is a blood thinner that will make it bleed MORE.


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Pitbulls DON'T have locking jaws. That is a myth. They just have some serious bite pressure (enough to rip the side view mirror off a car).
> 
> Second I wouldn'tbe gluueing anyuthing back on your dogs face. If he has a wound and the tissue is going to go necrotic then gluing dead or dying tissue back onto his face is only going to make things worse. What you should have done since you couldn't take him to a vet was to keep the wound clean, repeated soakings with an antiseptic fluid, flusing it several times a day. If his issue was bad enough to need surgical glue to put him back together then you should have gotten him to a vet. Often a vet wouldn't even suture a wound like that after the first hour because all that does is trap the bacteria IN the wound.
> 
> ...


Shrink, the pit was killed by the neighbors. And yeah alcohol is a no-no for every animal.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Pitbulls DON'T have locking jaws. That is a myth. They just have some serious bite pressure (enough to rip the side view mirror off a car).
> 
> Second I wouldn'tbe gluueing anyuthing back on your dogs face. If he has a wound and the tissue is going to go necrotic then gluing dead or dying tissue back onto his face is only going to make things worse. What you should have done since you couldn't take him to a vet was to keep the wound clean, repeated soakings with an antiseptic fluid, flusing it several times a day. If his issue was bad enough to need surgical glue to put him back together then you should have gotten him to a vet. Often a vet wouldn't even suture a wound like that after the first hour because all that does is trap the bacteria IN the wound.
> 
> ...


The dog has been shot and is now dead. Moot point.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Noobcakes said:


> I'm not going to sugarcoat my reply. If I ever felt that my dog's or family members' life were in SERIOUS danger, I would kill the attacking dog. I'm not going to lose MY dog because SOMEONE ELSE'S dog ran away and attacked mine. Just as I see fit to kill humans that would put my family's life in danger, I see a dog putting my dog's life in danger. If someone was trying to kill your mom and you had the chance to kill them so they would stop, wouldn't you? I feel the same way about any animal putting my pet in danger.


im not going to sugarcoat my reply either. its exactly the kind of reactionary attitude you display that im warning against. its that kind of reactionary attitude that gets people and dogs killed or maimed beyond what would've happened if people didnt freak out and panic. its an understandable reaction...but its a stupid one. 

lemme give you a scenario...

a dog attacks another dog that is on a leashed walk.

scenario 1:

owner quickly yet calmly attaches his dog's leash to a nearby bench. takes a look at the attacking dog. its a snapper. he grips it by the hindlegs, pauses until the dog opens its mouth to execute another snapping bite and at that moment, wheelbarrows the attacker away. (in this scenario..the reasoned pause spared his own dog a great deal of tissue damage because he waited until the attacker's mouth was open. if he had pulled while the attacker was in mid bite, it would've torn a huge gash in his dog's neck. that pause probably saved his dog's life)


scenario two: 

owner screams. this startles her already terrified dog into running, thereby yanking the leash from her shocked hands. the attacker chases the fleeing dog and pounces inflicting snapping bites all over the victim's body. the owner picks up a huge stick and begins beating the attacking dog with it who at one point turns and grabs the stick from the woman, yanks it from her hands and sinks his teeth into her thigh. 

these are both real life scenarios that i witnessed with my own eyes that happened to two people i know. in scenario one, the victim dog ended up with stitches but otherwise was fine. the owner suffered no injuries. In scenario two (which at the point the dog bit her, i got to them to intervene), the woman ended up with permanent scarring and her dog died...not from blood loss...but from head trauma inflicted by his own owner. in her frenzy to beat off the attacking dog, she struck her own dog on the head, cracking his skull and damaging his spinal cord. 

im just sayin...


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Kawgirl said:


> Just for reference, what IS the best way to separate fighting dogs? I have a small dog. What would be the best way to get a larger dog such as a pit off of her, if god forbid that ever happened?


You grab both back legs of the dog that is winning and wheelbarrow him OVER the other dog, don't pull this only makes them fight back harder as theyfeel their "Prize" is being taken away from them. Wheelbarrowing them OVER the other dog makes them lose perspective for a second, they usually let go and refocus on getting themselves righted instedof continuing the fight. Since it's rear legs NO ONE is putting themselves in harms way of the toothy end.


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## raafley (Aug 2, 2010)

Or - if they have a collar, put your fingers under it and twist until the dog comes up for air, then pull it away - sort of half strangulation. Well that's what we do over here.

Staffordshire Bull terriers also don't have locking jaws - bred to hang on to the bull, so they hang on - that's all!


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> The dog has been shot and is now dead. Moot point.


Well if the dog is dead now then they should have no problems getting it's head to check for rabies then would they?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Well if the dog is dead now then they should have no problems getting it's head to check for rabies then would they?


It's buried in the neighbors back yard and I'm sure they aren't going to want to dig it up and decapitate it. One of the most gruesome things I've ever seen in my life, by far.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Well then I guess it would be better for cowboy to wait and see if he develops rabies? I think not. Report this to the health department and they will come seize the corpse and test it. She didn't want her dog to get attacked so I think the neighbors should be as accomodating as they can. They could have a lot of charges pushed on them even with the dog destroyed. They didn't know this dog, I'm sure THEY didn't vaccinate it in the short time they had it. Rabies would be a really BIG concern if it was my dog... sorry. Report it to the health dept, the police, get the corpse and test for rabies. If you don't you leave cowboy at risk. God only knows what that dog was carrying. Doing any less imo is irresponsible. You HAVE TO report dog bites as a matter of state law.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Well then I guess it would be better for cowboy to wait and see if he develops rabies? I think not. Report this to the health department and they will come seize the corpse and test it. She didn't want her dog to get attacked so I think the neighbors should be as accomodating as they can. They could have a lot of charges pushed on them even with the dog destroyed. They didn't know this dog, I'm sure THEY didn't vaccinate it in the short time they had it. Rabies would be a really BIG concern if it was my dog... sorry. Report it to the health dept, the police, get the corpse and test for rabies. If you don't you leave cowboy at risk. God only knows what that dog was carrying. Doing any less imo is irresponsible. You HAVE TO report dog bites as a matter of state law.


I'm not saying I disagree, I just doubt the neighbors in this situation will cooperate at all.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> im not going to sugarcoat my reply either. its exactly the kind of reactionary attitude you display that im warning against. its that kind of reactionary attitude that gets people and dogs killed or maimed beyond what would've happened if people didnt freak out and panic. its an understandable reaction...but its a stupid one.
> 
> lemme give you a scenario...


Killing does not mean freaking out and panicking. A pistol barrel in the ear is just as simple to use as a break stick.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

Noobcakes said:


> I'm not going to sugarcoat my reply. If I ever felt that my dog's or family members' life were in SERIOUS danger, I would kill the attacking dog. I'm not going to lose MY dog because SOMEONE ELSE'S dog ran away and attacked mine. Just as I see fit to kill humans that would put my family's life in danger, I see a dog putting my dog's life in danger. If someone was trying to kill your mom and you had the chance to kill them so they would stop, wouldn't you? I feel the same way about any animal putting my pet in danger.


This is my feeling exactly! Thank you!

Raafley - Thank you for your concern. I'm sorry you've experienced something similar. I've seen many dogs around here get attacked by loose pits. Thats why I expected it to happen to my dog... because most people's dogs in this area end up coming in contact with one sooner or later.  I still like pitbulls, I have nothing against the breed. I just don't like the way they are raised to be aggressive. 

Zim - Thank you for all the information on breaking up dog fights!

Shrink - The glue closed my dog's face up, preventing an infection. It was all I could do. There was no vet to take him to at 11pm on a Friday night. The wound was not bleeding badly, so the alcohol didn't cause any problems... it helped him calm down. I guess you didn't get to read the rest of the thread because they ended up shooting the pitbull. There is no animal control, police could care less, and what is a dog warden? My neighbors had taken the dog to the vet and he had his rabies shot and his other shots about two days before the attack. I know this isn't enough time for the vaccines to work but my point being I don't think it was rabies because the vet said he seemed fine. He had scars on his ears and face so I'm quite sure he had been in a fight before!

cshellenberger - My .22 pistol brought down a 100+ pound bull mastiff within a second (I didn't shoot the dog someone in my family did). He walked right up to the dog and held the gun close enough where he wouldn't miss. Our border collie was saved with minor injuries. 

Its really nice to have all of this information and opinions on breaking up dog fights. My head is clear now that I know Cowboy is going to be just fine. Its easy to give suggestions and say "you should have..." AFTER the incident has occurred. I was just telling what really happened and what I did at the time. Its was 11pm on a Friday night when this had happened, I had just gotten off of work at 9pm, and I was so tired I couldn't think all that well. I feel as though I did the best I could for my dog. I certainly didn't cause him any harm by using the glue.

I know something has to be done about the pitbull fighting problem around here. The police know its happening but they don't care. There is dog fighting and rooster fighting. The KKK is infesting this area, along with the Banditos Motorcycle gang. So you can imagine. 

I just feel incredibly blessed to be able to own a gun in this type of environment. I'm also glad that we have the right to bury our dogs in the backyard without getting arrested.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TxRider said:


> Killing does not mean freaking out and panicking. A pistol barrel in the ear is just as simple to use as a break stick.


and is more often than not totally unnecessary. 

Killing when you dont have to is reprehensible and disgusting.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

TxRider said:


> Killing does not mean freaking out and panicking. A pistol barrel in the ear is just as simple to use as a break stick.


This is true. I've never heard of a break stick, and I have no idea where to get one. It seems easy to make, though.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> This is true. I've never heard of a break stick, and I have no idea where to get one. It seems easy to make, though.


yeah...sometimes it means you're a trigger happy psycho. (not speaking about anyone in particular)


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> and is more often than not totally unnecessary.
> 
> Killing when you dont have to is reprehensible and disgusting.


Yes it is, which is why the dogs attack on Cowboy was so reprehensible and disgusting.

So is owning a dog that will kill others and not properly containing it.

The locking jaw is a myth, but a breed that it is adviseable to own a break stick kinda says it all. I'll never own such a breed.

Just sayin...


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> Well then I guess it would be better for cowboy to wait and see if he develops rabies? I think not. Report this to the health department and they will come seize the corpse and test it. She didn't want her dog to get attacked so I think the neighbors should be as accomodating as they can. They could have a lot of charges pushed on them even with the dog destroyed. They didn't know this dog, I'm sure THEY didn't vaccinate it in the short time they had it. Rabies would be a really BIG concern if it was my dog... sorry. Report it to the health dept, the police, get the corpse and test for rabies. If you don't you leave cowboy at risk. God only knows what that dog was carrying. Doing any less imo is irresponsible. You HAVE TO report dog bites as a matter of state law.


Its not any kind of law to report dog bites here. If I did try and report a dog bite, I would get laughed at by the police.

They wouldn't take the dead dog, either. They'd tell the neighbors to put the dog back in the ground where they dug him up, or burn his corpse.
When an animal such as a cow or horse dies, the police suggest burning the corpse if the family doesn't own a tractor to dig a big enough hole.
Or, if you own a bunch of land, most people just leave the bodies in a field somewhere. Buzzards have to eat too, right? 

Actually, the pitbull was fully vaccinated. My dog had his rabies shot months ago. Hopefully a rabies shot gives your dog a chance of not getting rabies... otherwise I will never get another one. Thankfully Cowboy is UTD on all of his shots/worming.

As for pressing charges on the neighbors... I wouldn't do it. There is no point in it. There are no vet bills to pay, my dog is ok, and the pitbull is no longer here.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TxRider said:


> Yes it is, which is why the dogs attack on Cowboy was so reprehensible and disgusting.


so you're totally sure of the dog's motivation? wow..you must be psychic!!!




> So is owning a dog that will kill others and not properly containing it.


ummm...duh. 



> The locking jaw is a myth, but a breed that it is adviseable to own a break stick kinda says it all.


you dont have to have a breakstick..i can do it with my fingers...did it with my fingers on several of the occasions i was attacked by german shepherds. 

the breakstick is not contained to pit bulls only. it goes for molosser types. mastiffs, various bulldogs as well as the bull terriers...

the reason is the strenght of the jaw musculature...not the shape of the jawbone...and again..its not a tool only for APBT...which...we dont actually know if this dog was a pit bull...might've been one of the other 30 plus breeds you can use a breakstick on...or a mix thereof...

breaksticks originated with pits...doesnt mean that pits are the only breed its good to have one for


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> yeah...sometimes it means you're a trigger happy psycho. (not speaking about anyone in particular)


Or an old-school ******* ranch girl from Texas who is just set in her beliefs about how to handle things in the easiest manner possible.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> Or an old-school ******* ranch girl from Texas who is just set in her beliefs about how to handle things in the easiest manner possible.


then no offense...but i never want to meet you. taking the easy way out is not always the best way...not even most of the time.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

TxRider said:


> The locking jaw is a myth, but a breed that it is adviseable to own a break stick kinda says it all. I'll never own such a breed.
> 
> Just sayin...


The break stick is nothing other than to stop a dog who grips during a fight. GSDs have a stronger bite PSI than Pits. 

I owe my left arm to a Am. Staff who stepped in when two GSD sisters had a hold of me. Still own a GSD mix who was adopted long after the attack.


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## mrjrdrben (Jul 29, 2010)

Never mind, delet this, I dont know what I was saying...... Got mixed up in all the posts.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> then no offense...but i never want to meet you. taking the easy way out is not always the best way...not even most of the time.


That is fine with me, no offense taken. I have to take the hard way out most of the time but when I see an easy way I take it. 

When another dog is attacking my dog, I don't think in my head "oh, how can I get this dog off before he shreds mine to pieces? i surely don't want to hurt the dog that is killing mine!! wait... is his a snapper or a gripper?" Nope, I'm thinking, "what can I do that will guarantee this dog will let go of mine without me having to get near its mouth as FAST as possible?" A bullet causes the animal go limp, drop, and relax its jaws. There is no chance of wheelbarrowing a dog away only to tear more holes in my dog. There is no chance of sticking a break stick into its mouth and having it bite me (according to Shrink I could get rabies from this). I don't have time to experiment when my dog's life in in danger.

I'm glad some of you have the experience necessary to use these methods you have described. But for most people, its hard to think while you are watching your baby get torn apart.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> I'm not saying I disagree, I just doubt the neighbors in this situation will cooperate at all.


No hon I understand... that's why I said, they won't have a choice if the Health Dept. Is notified of the bite from a stray dog they were harboring in their home with out taking it to a vet (I think if Iremember correctly) when it had obvious medical conditions.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

mrjrdrben said:


> In some way I can see her point on the matter. If she had tryed to, then she may have lost her dog, or may have gotten attacked herself, if she made any mistakes when apprehending the dog. When in doubt, go with what you know........


im speaking more to an overall standard. if you HAVE TO..you HAVE TO...but if you dont...why would you? the answer to that that comes to mind is...not pretty.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> so you're totally sure of the dog's motivation? wow..you must be psychic!!!


It jumped the fence into her yard and attacked her dog and inflicted serious harm, wich presumably would have been yet more serious had she not intervened. Exactly what more information do I need to know to call it unneccesary, reprehensible and disgusting?



> breaksticks originated with pits...doesnt mean that pits are the only breed its good to have one for


As I said, that about says it all, myth or no myth.

I got nothing against pits, they are what they are, selective breeding for specific traits and abilities and all. But one in my fenced yard, attacking my dog, is in serious jeopardy of loss of life. I am what I am as well.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

Dog_Shrink said:


> No hon I understand... that's why I said, they won't have a choice if the Health Dept. Is notified of the bite from a stray dog they were harboring in their home with out taking it to a vet (I think if Iremember correctly) when it had obvious medical conditions.


The dog was taken to a vet on the day they picked it up.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> im speaking more to an overall standard. if you HAVE TO..you HAVE TO...but if you dont...why would you? the answer to that that comes to mind is...not pretty.


Why are we killing people in Afghanistan? Why do we kill dogs in shelters? Why do I kill and butcher chickens, lambs, calves and eat them? We don't "have to" do any of those things. And no it's not always pretty, but neither is Cowboy's face right now.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah I saw that after I caught up on all the thread posts. Bites aren't reported to the police they'e reported to the HEALTH DEPARTMENT. Thehealth department would want to test for rabies regardless. IF this was a fighter that got away he likely didn't have his shots, if he had contracted rabies (which takes some time to finally show outward symptoms) and the vet vaccinated him for rabies, not good. If the dog was fine the few days he was there yard to yard with cowboy and then just for no reason jumped and attacked... hm again NOT NORMAL even for a pit. 

Cowboy was vaccinated a month ago, that's good, at least if the other did have it, or was a carrier for it, he has a good chance of not contracting it, but again no vaccine is 100%, and honestly I would err on the side of caution. I don't put much faith in man made things.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

TxRider said:


> It jumped the fence into her yard and attacked her dog and inflicted serious harm, wich presumably would have been yet more serious had she not intervened. Exactly what more information do I need to know to call it unneccesary, reprehensible and disgusting?


that dogs have the same morals standards that humans do. 





> As I said, that about says it all, myth or no myth.
> 
> I got nothing against pits, they are what they are, selective breeding for specific traits and abilities and all. But one in my fenced yard, attacking my dog, is in serious jeopardy of loss of life. I am what I am as well.


no it doesnt. it doest say jack squat about diddly. 

you're not really listening to what im saying. im advocating assessing the situation FIRST. pulling your gun out and popping off shots without doing so...is STUPID..REPREHENSIBLE..and DISGUSTING.

you're talking extreme scenarios. im talking ALL scenarios.



TxRider said:


> Why are we killing people in Afghanistan? Why do we kill dogs in shelters? Why do I kill and butcher chickens, lambs, calves and eat them? We don't "have to" do any of those things. And no it's not always pretty, but neither is Cowboy's face right now.


we're killing people in afghanistan because america is a barbaric iron fisted warmongering festering cesspool of a country.

we kill dogs in shelter because we have to..because there's too many of them. if there were not so many of them...we wouldnt have to.

as for butchering..im not going to go there because my views on that..are not appropriate for this forum.

Cowboy's face is fine. he's obviously not terribly injured...it wasnt clear what the op did so imma leave it at that.


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## raafley (Aug 2, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> It's buried in the neighbors back yard and I'm sure they aren't going to want to dig it up and decapitate it. One of the most gruesome things I've ever seen in my life, by far.


Do you eat meat by any chance?


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

> we kill dogs in shelter because we have to..because there's too many of them. if there were not so many of them...we wouldnt have to.


There are too many loose pitbulls running around here attacking our pets so we _have to_ kill them. If these aggressive dogs do make it to a shelter, they are euthanized anyways. 



> Cowboy's face is fine. he's obviously not terribly injured...it wasnt clear what the op did so imma leave it at that.


His face is permanently damaged. There will be big ugly scars. This didn't have to happen, and thanks to my neighbors killing the dog, it won't happen to anyone else's pet.


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## HyperFerret (Feb 7, 2009)

I've pulled a dog back by a collar once ... good thing it was my dog. Can't remember why the fight was happening but yeeeears ago a couple of mine got into a fight and I was having a hard time breaking it up. So I grabbed Dutchess by the collar and she whipped her head around faster than I thought possible and bit my hand. Now with Dutchess being Dutchess as soon as she bit me she suddenly got a look that said, "Holy crap! Not good! Did NOT mean to bite her!" It wasn't too bad of a bite but with that bite, suddenly the whole fight was over, so ... um ... cool beans? Lol.

After that bite though, I quickly discovered the wheel barrel affect. With the few fights mine would get into, the wheel barrel worked wonders. As soon as I discovered a fight, I would usually call my brother and we would wheel barrel both dogs. Once apart, we wouldn't release until the dogs seemed calm, then we would release and each body block a dog till we knew for sure everyone was calm.

Now the wheel barrel *DID NOT* work with this dog!









Her name is Destiny and she's the sweetest thing ever and has absolutely no pit to her but oh my word! She and Dutchess did not get along. When a fight broke out despite Dutchess being in submission and yelping out, Destiny would be shredding her. My brother and I would be trying to wheel barrel her off but she had a grip and would not let go. While holding onto her back legs, I even said, "Oh come on already, give it a break." (Said while waiting for the split second of her mouth opening as my cue to pull.) So then, I straddled her and tried to pry her mouth open. She had a surprisingly strong grip and was, as you're thinking of, "locked". So, not having (or knowing of or even thinking of) a wedge, while still straddling her, I took a hold of her muzzle and worked my fingers between her teeth till I was able to force open her mouth to release Dutchess. Now, not the kindest thing but what I thought of, while working to get between her teeth, I was also keeping her lips under my fingers so her teeth were pressed into herself. Seemed to work well. Though not the smartest. Did the same thing once to get an Akita off of Tj. Still, NOT the smartest method.

But that just goes to show, other breeds can have just as nasty and determined bites. Even from "sweet looking" dogs you'd never expect it from.

I didn't have to shoot her or anything. And I still managed to work it out where we all lived peacefully together and I continued to babysit that dog for 4 more years.

I would have been terribly upset and frazzled as you were if it were to happen to my dog ... but I would never look at the situation as _that PIT_ just did _that!_ ...Not fair to pin it on "Pit".

I am very glad though that your dog is okay. I hope very much that your dog won't sourly react to other dogs because of this. ...Been there, done that, that sucks.



*~ ~ ~ With that all said, and fights in subject, I have a question concerning a dog fight:*

Long, long time ago my brother was looking out the back door and calmly asked, "Um ... how can you tell if dogs are playing or fighting?"

I answered back with, "If there's blood and fur flying - it's a fight. If that's not happening - they're playing."

After watching our dogs for a few more seconds he tells me he can't really tell what's happening. So I got up and walked to the door and peered out at them. "That's ... that's not play ... but?", I stated with confusion.

I immediatly went out to where they were and ... it kinda was like a fight but in slow motion.  There was no blood or missing fur. Both dogs were unhappy, and tired, and both were covered in slobber. All I did was say in a slightly stern voice, "Alright, that enough." Both Saphira and Emmers then just stood there, heavy panting, staring at each other, and then walked off in seperate directions. 

And then that never happened again to date ... But what the heck was that?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

raafley said:


> Do you eat meat by any chance?


Yes, why?



Cowgirl Kristin said:


> His face is permanently damaged. There will be big ugly scars. This didn't have to happen, and thanks to my neighbors killing the dog, it won't happen to anyone else's pet.


It's not permanently damaged. It may be permanently scared, but you'd be surprised how well scars heal on dogs. You might be left with a very small sliver of hairless face. I've seen many dog fights and dogs that have been involved in fighting, and many much worse than your dog were just fine. 

Likewise, I've seen very serious non-fight inflicted cuts and gashes on dogs including this- 









That healed just fine with no indication anything was every wrong a little short of a month. Yes, they look bad when they happen, but usually it's only for a short period then they heal up just fine. 

If a vet had seen your dog I'd be almost positive he'd heal with a non-noticeable scar. What you did could be detrimental to his healing though, so we'll see. Only time will tell.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

raafley said:


> Or - if they have a collar, put your fingers under it and twist until the dog comes up for air, then pull it away - sort of half strangulation. Well that's what we do over here.
> 
> Staffordshire Bull terriers also don't have locking jaws - bred to hang on to the bull, so they hang on - that's all!


Grab a collar ONLY if you have a bite stick and can get the dog pinned and the head under control IMMEDIATELY, that's how people get SERIOUSLY bitten. I will only advise people to go to the mouth end if ALL else fails.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

My first dog was a very dog-aggressive Lab. And, being my first, I didn't know how to handle it so she was in more dogfights than I can count. A bucket of water breaks up almost any fight. I'm glad that in all those cases there wasn't some trigger-happy yahoo going all Yosemite Sam in the neighborhood. Killing anything unnecessarily is disgusting. There is also a huge difference in shooting a dog in the heat of the moment, during a fight, and shooting a dog when all is calm. The poor dog quite likely had several minutes of abject terror before they blew his brains out. Someone capable of killing a dog like that is nobody I ever wish to meet. 

Dogshrink---the dog can't be tested for rabies. When a dog has his brains blown out the brains can't be tested. This happened to to a relative--the vet really ripped him a new one for doing it, too. Even if the skull remains intact the brain tissue is too damaged from the bullet.

I find it insulting for anyone to insinuate that the only reason for a person to object to someone shooting a dog is if they're ignorant about guns. I know guns. I was raised with them. I can shoot reasonably well, I can take a gun apart, clean it, and put it back together. My dad has an arsenal that probably has him on several FBI watchlists. But I have no use for guns. Their only function is death, and death makes me naseous. I'm glad I actually think about a situation instead of waving lethal weapons around.


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## HyperFerret (Feb 7, 2009)

Cowboy really should heal up just fine.  Shouldn't be really noticeable either, if at all. Looks kinda similar to what happened to Tj. These are not the best shots as the first is blurry and the second the rest of the fur is overlapping, making the wound appear smaller. These were also taken a day after.


















But, yeah, Cowboy should heal up nicely.



DJEtzel said:


>


Yikes! Glad that healed up nicely.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

His face will scar. He cut his leg on barbed wire once and there is a horrible hairless scar from that. It wasn't near as deep, either. And even if his face didn't scar, the attack damaged him mentally. It also had an effect on me.

Attacks like these make people say things like this:
"So next time I'm driving my truck and a pit runs out in front of me, I won't swerve to miss it." - person whose dog of 13 yrs was killed by a pit in the same area I live in.

HyperFerret - i'm glad TJ healed up ok! makes me feel better about cowboy


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

Cowgirl Kristin, we think the same way. If ANY stray animal would wonder into my land to mess with ANY of my animals they would be shot dead. I've lost countless chickens to stray cats and dogs. If I see one around my chicken coop, it's going to die, no questions asked.

And Zim, we can agree to disagree. I was raised to defend all my animals in my farm, I can't say how you were raised. It takes a lot of work to raise chickens, just to have stray animals come into your land and destroy dozens of them. They don't do it to eat, they just do it to kill.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

The problem with shooting a dog DURING an attack is that you're JUST as likely to hit the victem of the attack as you are the attacker. Learn to break up a fight the RIGHT way, contain the dog and allow ANIMAL SERVICES and the police to deal with it and the IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS (some of whom can be quite violent themselves if their 'property' is injured or killed). 

BTW, I've seen Dobes lock on pretty good and have to have their jaws pried apart, it's not just a Pit thing AT ALL. If a dog is in kill mode, it's going to lock and shake and it doesn't matter the breed.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Willowy said:


> My first dog was a very dog-aggressive Lab. And, being my first, I didn't know how to handle it so she was in more dogfights than I can count. A bucket of water breaks up almost any fight. I'm glad that in all those cases there wasn't some trigger-happy yahoo going all Yosemite Sam in the neighborhood. Killing anything unnecessarily is disgusting. There is also a huge difference in shooting a dog in the heat of the moment, during a fight, and shooting a dog when all is calm. The poor dog quite likely had several minutes of abject terror before they blew his brains out. Someone capable of killing a dog like that is nobody I ever wish to meet.


A bucket of water is usually a waste of time if you don't know the dogs fighting and their tendencies. A bucket of water, hose, etc. isn't going to stop a dog that is viciously and purposefully trying to kill the other. Sure, if they got into a tiff and are brawling a bit it may break them up, but usually won't. Never has in my experience. 



HyperFerret said:


> Yikes! Glad that healed up nicely.


Me too. I was surprised at the recovery time. She was a great dog. It's sad things like this happen.



Cowgirl Kristin said:


> His face will scar. He cut his leg on barbed wire once and there is a horrible hairless scar from that. It wasn't near as deep, either. And even if his face didn't scar, the attack damaged him mentally. It also had an effect on me.
> 
> Attacks like these make people say things like this:
> "So next time I'm driving my truck and a pit runs out in front of me, I won't swerve to miss it." - person whose dog of 13 yrs was killed by a pit in the same area I live in.
> ...


You don't know it will scar. Different parts of the body scar differently, and it depends on how the wound happened too. You need to calm down. You dog is not ruined or dead. He will live, and you said he was acting fine afterwards, I doubt he is mentally scarred. And of course it had an effect on you, but now you have the opportunity to educate yourself to better handle a situation like this should it occur in the future.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

Having small dogs who could easily be killed instantly if attacked by a bigger aggressive dog, I have little patience for owners of DA dogs who are not 100% vigilant with their animals. I am the biggest weinnie alive, but if a dog is attacking mine, if I could I would kill it to save mine. I don't walk all of my dogs together because I don't think I could protect them if a bigger dog would attack.

Honestly, I shouldn't have to know how to separate an attacking dog from mine. I DO feel sorry for DA dogs who are put down because of their owners lack of vigilance, however the safety of my dogs comes first. If one of my dogs were to be killed or severely injured, I would insist that the attacking dog be put down. One strike and you are out baby!

I hope Cowboy is doing well. I don't blame you for being upset. You and your dog did nothing wrong.


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

cshellenberger said:


> The problem with shooting a dog DURING an attack is that you're JUST as likely to hit the victem of the attack as you are the attacker. Learn to break up a fight the RIGHT way, contain the dog and allow ANIMAL SERVICES and the police to deal with it and the IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS (some of whom can be quite violent themselves if their 'property' is injured or killed).
> 
> BTW, I've seen Dobes lock on pretty good and have to have their jaws pried apart, it's not just a Pit thing AT ALL. If a dog is in kill mode, it's going to lock and shake and it doesn't matter the breed.


I understand that but the way Cowgirl Kristin described her town, I can relate. There is NO law for these things. It's either you do it, and they finish themselves. I am not putting my hand to stop a could-be rabid dog, and I ain't letting my dog have to suffer either. Just as if my dog went around attacking pets and livestock, and it showed up dead, I would have no one to blame except myself. The only person to blame for this situation is the owner, because it didn't secure an aggressive dog the correct way. Here in Brazil, if you call the police because of a dog bite they will hang up the phone. They are busy arresting criminals, not something dealing with animals.

But, Some people don't understand. People who weren't raised in this kind of environment or raised on a farm in the middle of nowhere, have no idea that out here people got to do what they have to protect their livestock. Just adding, that if I ever caught a person stealing my chickens or injuring my dog they would have the same fate as the pit bull the OP posted about. There is no trespassing on my property and if you do, well, than it's your risk, and not my problem if you get lead in the head. But again AGREE TO DISAGREE


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

Noobcakes said:


> Cowgirl Kristin, we think the same way. If ANY stray animal would wonder into my land to mess with ANY of my animals they would be shot dead. I've lost countless chickens to stray cats and dogs. If I see one around my chicken coop, it's going to die, no questions asked.
> 
> And Zim, we can agree to disagree. I was raised to defend all my animals in my farm, I can't say how you were raised. It takes a lot of work to raise chickens, just to have stray animals come into your land and destroy dozens of them. They don't do it to eat, they just do it to kill.


Exactly. My family are Texas ranchers. We have to kill coyotes, wolves, hogs, snakes, and other animals that are a threat to our livestock. We have to shoot birds and turtles because they eat fish (we sell catfish). We trap beavers, otters, gators. If we didn't do this then we wouldn't have a ranch left. This is why shooting a dog for attacking my dog is acceptable to me. Its in my nature, its in how I was raised. Most people haven't seen what I have. 

We gave an aggressive dog a chance ONE TIME and I have regretted it for most of my life. A neighboring farm had a cur dog that snuck onto our property at night and snapped my cat's neck. We let him live because we didn't want to kill a neighbor's dog. They were warned however. Well the dog came back and killed five of my goats two nights later. We caught him in the process and shot him. He is no longer a problem. We could have taken him in to have him euthanized, but what is the point?



> The problem with shooting a dog DURING an attack is that you're JUST as likely to hit the victem of the attack as you are the attacker. Learn to break up a fight the RIGHT way, contain the dog and allow ANIMAL SERVICES and the police to deal with it and the IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS (some of whom can be quite violent themselves if their 'property' is injured or killed).


There are no animal services to deal with the problem so we have to deal with it ourselves. Like I said before, police don't care to get involved in a situation like this (they couldn't have much anyways).


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

So Cavalier said:


> Having small dogs who could easily be killed instantly if attacked by a bigger aggressive dog, I have little patience for owners of DA dogs who are not 100% vigilant with their animals. I am the biggest weinnie alive, but if a dog is attacking mine, if I could I would kill it to save mine. I don't walk all of my dogs together because I don't think I could protect them if a bigger dog would attack.
> 
> Honestly, I shouldn't have to know how to separate an attacking dog from mine. I DO feel sorry for DA dogs who are put down because of their owners lack of vigilance, however the safety of my dogs comes first. If one of my dogs were to be killed or severely injured, I would insist that the attacking dog be put down. One strike and you are out baby!
> 
> I hope Cowboy is doing well. I don't blame you for being upset. You and your dog did nothing wrong.


Totally agree!! I shouldn't have to go out of my way to worry about some ignorant fools dog that will try to attack mine.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> There are too many loose pitbulls running around here attacking our pets so we _have to_ kill them. If these aggressive dogs do make it to a shelter, they are euthanized anyways.


the problem with this argument in relation to this incident is that you dont know why that dog attacked. you said yourself that he was mistreated and sick. that doesnt mean he was inherantly aggressive. it doesnt mean he was aggressive at all. in fact it indicates that he may NOT have been aggressive and could have been rehabbed. and in the cases of most strays who act aggressive..its the same...

and in general? you saying there are soooo many loose pit bulls that you have to kill them...doesnt fly logically. not in the slightest. the shelters euthanize(which is NOT the same as pumping a dog full of bullets generally) because they have no room. you're strawmanning by comparing apples with oranges.




> His face is permanently damaged. There will be big ugly scars. This didn't have to happen, and thanks to my neighbors killing the dog, it won't happen to anyone else's pet.


you dont know that that is the case. even a vet can get that wrong. all i said was the wounds arent bad comparitively. he's walking, breathing, eating, drinking isnt he?


thanks to your neighbors killing the dog without even TRYING to contact someone that could help it, that dog had no chance..it was judged totally guilty and culpable without determining if it was truly aggressive or just sick and mistreated..

that's like saying if it was human..you'd be ok with sending a terminally mentally ill person to the electric chair for exhibiting symptoms of his sickness.

Aggression is a symptom..it indicates that there is a problem. it is NOT the problem in of itself. *glowers*

im done here.



Noobcakes said:


> And Zim, we can agree to disagree. I was raised to defend all my animals in my farm, I can't say how you were raised. It takes a lot of work to raise chickens, just to have stray animals come into your land and destroy dozens of them. They don't do it to eat, they just do it to kill.


1. i come from farm people. 2. that's a bs overgeneralization.

ok..im done. y'all have fun shootin up the strays in your area..sounds real humanlike...


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

So Cavalier said:


> Having small dogs who could easily be killed instantly if attacked by a bigger aggressive dog, I have little patience for owners of DA dogs who are not 100% vigilant with their animals. I am the biggest weinnie alive, but if a dog is attacking mine, if I could I would kill it to save mine. I don't walk all of my dogs together because I don't think I could protect them if a bigger dog would attack.
> 
> Honestly, I shouldn't have to know how to separate an attacking dog from mine. I DO feel sorry for DA dogs who are put down because of their owners lack of vigilance, however the safety of my dogs comes first. If one of my dogs were to be killed or severely injured, I would insist that the attacking dog be put down. One strike and you are out baby!
> 
> I hope Cowboy is doing well. I don't blame you for being upset. You and your dog did nothing wrong.


Thank you. I'm just glad Cowboy is as tough as he is. I'm still angry about it. I get mad every time I see my poor boy's face. And no one can blame me for that.

Your dogs are precious!



> But, Some people don't understand. People who weren't raised in this kind of environment or raised on a farm in the middle of nowhere, have no idea that out here people got to do what they have to protect their livestock. Just adding, that if I ever caught a person stealing my chickens or injuring my dog they would have the same fate as the pit bull the OP posted about. There is no trespassing on my property and if you do, well, than it's your risk, and not my problem if you get lead in the head. But again AGREE TO DISAGREE


This is true. Thankfully in Texas the laws we have protect us from going to jail for killing someone/something who is trying to harm us. This is how we do things here. If you don't like it, don't live here!


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## Noobcakes (Jul 23, 2010)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> ok..im done. y'all have fun shootin up the strays in your area..sounds real humanlike...


I rescued my pup from the street where her mom was abandoning her after being hit by some ignorant woman. I don't tolerate animal abuse, I'm against not doing anything when your pets or family's life is in danger. I'm not some prick that hates strays. I love strays, if I could I would take them all in. So I really didn't appreciate the ignorant comment from your part. And, if you read my posts I stated countless times about DEFENDING MY ANIMALS, not going around killing for fun.



Cowgirl Kristin said:


> Thank you. I'm just glad Cowboy is as tough as he is. I'm still angry about it. I get mad every time I see my poor boy's face. And no one can blame me for that.
> 
> Your dogs are precious!
> 
> ...


At least Cowboy will heal, and it could've been much worse. I also enjoy living in a place where a man can protect his family and property with his own hands and not have to rely on the government.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

> thanks to your neighbors killing the dog without even TRYING to contact someone that could help it, that dog had no chance..it was judged totally guilty and culpable without determining if it was truly aggressive or just sick and mistreated..


Why should the dog be given another chance to attack or kill? Its a risk we are not willing to take, sorry.



> that's like saying if it was human..you'd be ok with sending a terminally mentally ill person to the electric chair for exhibiting symptoms of his sickness.


You want to compare people to dogs? Thats apples to oranges as well. BUT, if a mentally ill person brutally murdered (or attempted to murder) another person.... no, don't send them to the electric chair. Lethal injection is fine.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

So Cavalier said:


> Having small dogs who could easily be killed instantly if attacked by a bigger aggressive dog, I have little patience for owners of DA dogs who are not 100% vigilant with their animals. I am the biggest weinnie alive, but if a dog is attacking mine, if I could I would kill it to save mine.


I feel the same way. I'm actually afraid that I'm capable of seriously maiming any dog who was attacking either of mine. Simply because when you have small dogs, you know every split second could mean life or death, every head shake or increase in bite pressure could be the difference between a serious injury or a fatality. And to be honest, I don't hold any misconceptions that in 90% of cases where a big dog goes after a tiny one, you have little hope of getting the small one back in one piece. That kind of knowledge makes you willing to do ANYTHING no matter how harsh to get the attacking dog to STOP as fast as possible.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Really? Capital punishment for Attempted Murder? Nice. . .


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

Willowy said:


> Really? Capital punishment for Attempted Murder? Nice. . .


Its the same as murder, only they failed.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

I wonder if those of you who are so gung-ho about killing a dog that is attacking your dog realize how silly that is with all the avenues to break up a dog fight that work that DON'T require killing and would be easier to do. I seriously doubt many of you could injure/kill an attacking dog with your bare hands, and I doubt many of you carry weapons on a walk. And as it has been mentioned several times already, shooting the offending dog during the fight is likely going to end up injuring or killing your dog in the process. 

And I absolutely would not understand killing the dog AFTER the attack. That isn't protecting your own. That is all you. I suppose many of you oppose Vick's dogs living in happy homes where they live now. They HAVE killed other dogs, you know. And don't say it wasn't there fault because someone made them that way. A lot of aggressive dogs are that way because someone made them that way. Dogs don't deserve a death sentence because someone failed them, and unfortunately that is the way things are in shelters already. 

I have said I would fight tooth and nail to save one of my dogs. But I would not call for blood. If the dog could be safely rehomed with an experienced handler (in a perfect world..) I would be more than happy with that. After all, I have an HA/DA dog and a HA dog. They would be dead if not for intervention and they're perfectly safe where they are.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

Honestly your dog is going to be fine and so are you. The damage is minimal and the scaring will not be "big ugly scars" If anything it will be a tiny little thing. Maybe you should just leave this alone now.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

katielou said:


> Honestly your dog is going to be fine and so are you. The damage is minimal and the scaring will not be "big ugly scars" If anything it will be a tiny little thing. Maybe you should just leave this alone now.


*thumbs up*

Thank you.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

katielou said:


> Honestly your dog is going to be fine and so are you. The damage is minimal and the scaring will not be "big ugly scars" If anything it will be a tiny little thing. Maybe you should just leave this alone now.


You are correct, katielou. I am done with what I had to say. I didn't expect for most people to DIG for reasons for the whole thing to be my fault. This thread isn't helping me feel any better about pitbulls (I actually feel worse), dog people, or dogforums.com. I came here for support and I got a lot of bashing from people who are looking to start an argument. Sure... *can a mod close this thread?* Thanks.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Killing and maiming in the heat of the moment changes YOU.


Killing does change you, whether it's in the heat of the moment or not. Just does. I like to think I would never kill anyone or anything, but that's just what I tell myself so I can sleep at night. And eat my dinner. Truth is most of us kill things all the time. Plants. Bugs. Fish. Chickens. Animals turned into roadkill. What makes us human is our ability to recognize it and to make choices.

No I'm not a vegetarian or some crazed animal rights wackadoodle. And yes, if someone was trying to harm me or my family (and that includes my dog), I would probably shoot them if I had a gun. But I would know I had done it and it would haunt me the rest of my days.


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> I wonder if those of you who are so gung-ho about killing a dog that is attacking your dog realize how silly that is with all the avenues to break up a dog fight that work that DON'T require killing and would be easier to do.


So please tell me.....how do I separate my 15 lb Cavalier from the jaws of a 70 lb attacking dog? 



> But I would not call for blood. If the dog could be safely rehomed with an experienced handler (in a perfect world..) I would be more than happy with that. After all, I have an HA/DA dog and a HA dog. They would be dead if not for intervention and they're perfectly safe where they are.


So you would be ok for a dog to go back to the same irresponsible owner who let it kill your dog? Sorry, I am not that forgiving. Yes, I do feel bad for the dog. However, with sweet wonderful dogs dying every day in shelters, I would rather one of those dogs go to the experienced handler and live a wonderful life. Sorry, it isn't a perfect world. There are crappy owners out there who screw up their dogs beyond repair. In a perfect world, every dog would be loved and nurtured. I am glad that you are vigilant with your HA/DA dogs. Alot of people aren't.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

So Cavalier said:


> So you would be ok for a dog to go back to the same irresponsible owner who let it kill your dog?


What part of re homed to an experienced handler don't you understand?


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## So Cavalier (Jul 23, 2010)

> What part of re homed to an experienced handler don't you understand?


So tell me....how often does this happen? I for one, would not want the liability. There just aren't enough experienced handlers out there who are willing to take on these dogs.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

So Cavalier said:


> So please tell me.....how do I separate my 15 lb Cavalier from the jaws of a 70 lb attacking dog?


I'm assuming you read the thread in which you are contributing, so I have already stated how to break up a dog fight. And how do you think you're going to kill a 70 lbs dog attacking with just your hands? Are you going to shoot a dog that has your dog in it's mouth? 



So Cavalier said:


> So you would be ok for a dog to go back to the same irresponsible owner who let it kill your dog? Sorry, I am not that forgiving. Yes, I do feel bad for the dog. However, with sweet wonderful dogs dying every day in shelters, I would rather one of those dogs go to the experienced handler and live a wonderful life. Sorry, it isn't a perfect world. There are crappy owners out there who screw up their dogs beyond repair. In a perfect world, every dog would be loved and nurtured. I am glad that you are vigilant with your HA/DA dogs. Alot of people aren't.


Yes, you definitely read what I wrote since you quoted it. Oh wait, here it is: "If the dog could be safely rehomed with an experienced handler" I'm not sure where you read "leave them in the hands of the irresponsible owner" but I can quote it again to assure you that is not what I said. Gathering that you couldn't even read what I plainly wrote, I would not expect you to understand that I was being already realistic when I wrote "In a perfect world.."You are a new poster, so I don't think you could possibly have back read enough to know the work I have done with my dogs and rehabbing rescue dogs so I don't need the perfect world fantasy explained to me. I'm sorry that you do not believe my dogs were worth the rescue over other dogs that do not have aggression issues. They are sweet, loving dogs that someone messed up and don't deserve the home they're in now any less than any other dog.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

So Cavalier said:


> So tell me....how often does this happen? I for one, would not want the liability. There just aren't enough experienced handlers out there who are willing to take on these dogs.


Actually it happens quite often. The small rescue i work with have a list of people who are willing to rehome dogs that need work. I consider myself experienced with DA dogs and when i go to the shelter i look for the dogs that need this kind of work and so do most of the people in my meetup sociliation group.

I am not saying this should happen with every DA dog but there area % out there that are DA for a good reason and they can be worked with a turned around and then placed with someone who will keep up the socialization.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

So Cavalier said:


> So tell me....how often does this happen? I for one, would not want the liability. There just aren't enough experienced handlers out there who are willing to take on these dogs.


There aren't. No one is making the point that every single dog that has been involved in an attack should be rehomed to an experienced handler. I've worked in rescue for four years and I know that is not feasible. But if there was the chance, they should, not immediately go to the chopping block.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

So Cavalier said:


> So tell me....how often does this happen? I for one, would not want the liability. There just aren't enough experienced handlers out there who are willing to take on these dogs.


But they do exist. 

And you would pry a 70lb dog off your 15lb dog the same way you would pry one off of a dog of the same size. Wait for a pause in biting and wheelbarrow backwards. Finger in the anus if he's not letting go, or a break stick.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

How do I find a moderator to *close this thread*?



DJEtzel said:


> But they do exist.
> 
> And you would pry a 70lb dog off your 15lb dog the same way you would pry one off of a dog of the same size. Wait for a pause in biting and wheelbarrow backwards. Finger in the anus if he's not letting go, or a break stick.


LMAO finger in the anus... no freaking way!


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

A sad situation indeed!
Having multiple Pyrs I learned fast to break up a real dog fight...The kind where there is no noise but just ripping & tearing...Yikes!...Here is a good detailed link for breaking up a dog fight...You can grab hind legs on docked breeds:
http://sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/dogfight.htm


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> LMAO finger in the anus... no freaking way!


Of course not. You'd rather shoot a dog that find a safe alternative. 

I know if my 15lb dog was being maimed, the last thing I would mind doing is sticking my finger up a dogs butt to save my dog. Some people just don't care about their dogs enough to do it though, I get it.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

DJEtzel said:


> Of course not. You'd rather shoot a dog that find a safe alternative.
> 
> I know if my 15lb dog was being maimed, the last thing I would mind doing is sticking my finger up a dogs butt to save my dog. Some people just don't care about their dogs enough to do it though, I get it.


 That's what I was thinking...

Here you have someone who just spent 5 pages telling everyone how it is in "the country", where you kill things that "need killing", and then they're squeamish at the though of putting a finger in a dog's but to save their dog...amazing.


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## GypsyJazmine (Nov 27, 2009)

Someone actually said that they kill things that need killing?...That reminds me of the movie Deliverance for some reason!
eta: I work in rescue & often rehabilitate livestock guardians so I save things that some people might think need killed...I live in the country too but I guess I have a different mind set...Thank God!


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I know if my 15lb dog was being maimed, the last thing I would mind doing is sticking my finger up a dogs butt to save my dog. Some people just don't care about their dogs enough to do it though, I get it.


Seriously. If that would save my dog, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Moral discussion aside, a gun's just not going to work in every situation. I know I'd rather stick my finger in a dog's butt than try to shoot a dog that has my little dog in its mouth and is shaking it. Even if I had gun experience, I wouldn't trust my aim that much.


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> His face will scar. He cut his leg on barbed wire once and there is a horrible hairless scar from that. It wasn't near as deep, either. And even if his face didn't scar, the attack damaged him mentally. It also had an effect on me.
> 
> Attacks like these make people say things like this:
> "So next time I'm driving my truck and a pit runs out in front of me, I won't swerve to miss it." - person whose dog of 13 yrs was killed by a pit in the same area I live in.
> ...


if you want to avoid a scar put vitamin E oil on it or bag balm after the scab falls off.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> Seriously. If that would save my dog, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Moral discussion aside, a gun's just not going to work in every situation. I know I'd rather stick my finger in a dog's butt than try to shoot a dog that has my little dog in its mouth and is shaking it. Even if I had gun experience, I wouldn't trust my aim that much.


Plus, when you're under that much pressure and have all the adrenaline pumping, I doubt half of the great shots here could accurately hit either dog, let alone the one they're aiming for. I know I shake like a leaf during dog fights.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

Sorry, but I'm not doing it. If someone else wants to try to stick their finger up a dog's butt next time their dog is being mauled, go ahead. Not me! There are safer alternatives to getting bitten by a dog, like blowing its brains out. Now leave me alone about it and quit posting. Thanks.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Except by the time you went inside to get a gun, your dog would surely be dead.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

There is always one close by. Especially because of this incident.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, I'm glad you feel okay killing things for the sake of your own happiness and joy. 

I just hope you never shoot cowboy instead, because I can see that happening.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

I am not killing for the sake of joy. You are obviously being ignorant and can't read. IF MY DOG WAS GETTING MAULED OF COURSE I WOULD KILL THE ATTACKER. You go ahead and and stick your finger up the dogs butt and *hope* that works next time a dog it attacking one of yours.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Cowgirl Kristin said:


> Sorry, but I'm not doing it. If someone else wants to try to stick their finger up a dog's butt next time their dog is being mauled, go ahead. Not me! There are safer alternatives to getting bitten by a dog, like blowing its brains out. Now leave me alone about it and quit posting. Thanks.


I didn't say it would be my _first_ choice, but if it's the easiest and fastest way to save my dog, I'll do it. Like some of us have said, even if you've got a gun, you're not always going to be able to get in a shot during a serious dogfight. There's a lot of moving around and you'd be just as likely to hit your own dog, or miss entirely.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

spotted nikes said:


> That's what I was thinking...
> 
> Here you have someone who just spent 5 pages telling everyone how it is in "the country", where you kill things that "need killing", and then they're squeamish at the though of putting a finger in a dog's but to save their dog...amazing.


Yeah, that is totally boggling my mind. Ew, their butt! Blow their head off? Yes! 

I was a groomer for three years. And my dog had her intestines hanging out of her butt when I adopted her. I'm by no means squeamish, especially if a life was in the balance.


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## Cowgirl Kristin (Feb 19, 2010)

im certainly not squeamish.

Is a moderator going to *CLOSE THIS THREAD PLEASE?*


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## Dog_Shrink (Sep 29, 2009)

Maybe you could send a PM to a moderator and request it or flag your post and ask them to close it in your flag reason.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Noobcakes said:


> I understand that but the way Cowgirl Kristin described her town, I can relate. There is NO law for these things. It's either you do it, and they finish themselves. I am not putting my hand to stop a could-be rabid dog, and I ain't letting my dog have to suffer either. Just as if my dog went around attacking pets and livestock, and it showed up dead, I would have no one to blame except myself. The only person to blame for this situation is the owner, because it didn't secure an aggressive dog the correct way. Here in Brazil, if you call the police because of a dog bite they will hang up the phone. They are busy arresting criminals, not something dealing with animals.
> 
> But, Some people don't understand. People who weren't raised in this kind of environment or raised on a farm in the middle of nowhere, have no idea that out here people got to do what they have to protect their livestock. Just adding, that if I ever caught a person stealing my chickens or injuring my dog they would have the same fate as the pit bull the OP posted about. There is no trespassing on my property and if you do, well, than it's your risk, and not my problem if you get lead in the head. But again AGREE TO DISAGREE


 I was raised that way, I have no problem with shooting an animal IF NEEDED however I will not put the life of another animal OR HUMAN in danger unless neccesary (as in ther's NO other way to get he dog off). Knowing how to break up a fight, or pull an attacking dog off a victim is essentail no matter where you live, that's why you wheelbarow, to keep away from the mouth and minimize the danger to yourself and the attack victim. I've broken up numerous fights and have yet to recieve more than a minimal bite. I've used water. baseball bats, bite sticks and the wheelbarrow method as needed. I've had to put down animals with a rifle, so that's not a problem for me either. I'm not gonna say I wouldn't shoot a dog, in fact the dog that put 50 stiches in my daughter would have met exactly that fate if it had still been in my house when I got home with my (then 5 yr old) daughter from the hospital. WhatI'm saying is EVERYONE shuld know how to stop an attack. The fact is, that the feral dog population in this country is growing as well as the fact that sooner or later you could well run across a loose DA dog or even have YOUR dog attack another. Knowlege is power and knowing what to do in an emergency could save a life.



Cowgirl Kristin said:


> How do I find a moderator to *close this thread*?
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO finger in the anus... no freaking way!


 
Don't laugh, it works. Besides, you're on a farm, don't tell me you've never cleared an impacted horse or turned a foal. same thing on a smaller scale and nothing soap won't take care of after.



Cowgirl Kristin said:


> I am not killing for the sake of joy. You are obviously being ignorant and can't read. IF MY DOG WAS GETTING MAULED OF COURSE I WOULD KILL THE ATTACKER. You go ahead and and stick your finger up the dogs butt and *hope* that works next time a dog it attacking one of yours.


it's not just hope hon, it works, I've done it. 

Right now I think you're right, it's time for this thread to close. Sadly some people just will not be educated


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